open thread – June 2-3, 2017

by Alison Green on June 2, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. Alter_ego*

    I was wondering if people had any advice/words of wisdom about switching jobs when you aren’t actually unhappy at your current job. I have an offer right now for a job making 8k more, with a commute that will go from 3 hours round trip to less than 30 minutes round trip, it will save me 300-400 dollars on commuting expenses. Overall a better situation. But I like my current job, and I’m having such a hard time with the idea of leaving. This is my first job out of college, and I’ve never left a job like this before. All my other jobs have had sort of defined end dates because I was going back to school, graduating school, set internships, etc.

    If anyone has anecdotes or advice on how to calm down, I’d appreciate it.

    1. Rowan*

      This is a totally normal thing to do. You don’t have to be unhappy in one job to leave for another that offers something better, or even just new. No reasonable person would be upset about you quitting for another opportunity.

    3. TotesMaGoats*

      From everything you’ve stated you’ve got a pretty good “Pros” list to leave. More more, less commute, less commuting wear and tear costs. I think many people get caught in the idea that you only leave a job when it’s bad. But leaving ok for better is perfectly normal and reasonable and probably the smart thing to do.

      The big question for me is do the role fit within my career path and allow for upward movement or opportunity? If so, don’t settle for just ok.

    4. Cruciatus*

      If you have an offer, does that mean you interviewed with them? Did you like what they said? Did it seem like a reasonable place? Does it seem as good as or better than current employer (even if you’re not unhappy)? Did you have any questions for them? You could still have some answered now before you take/decline the offer. Benefits good? What sort of work/life balance do they have (do they want you to work 12 hour days)? All of the things you mentioned sound like wonderful changes, as long as the employer seems reasonable!

      1. Alter_ego*

        I did interview, yeah. I liked the guys who interviewed me, and the corporate environment seems like it would fit with my personality. The benefits are largely good. Health insurance is a different company but also ones my doctor accepts. Cost to me and coverage is pretty similar. I’m loosing some vacation time which I’m working on negotiating at the moment. From what they said, the work/life balance is much better. He talked about people staying until 6:30 like it was a big deal that they were owed something above and beyond for. I haven’t regularly left before 6:30 in years.

        1. FiveWheels*

          It sounds like unless your current job is an absolute passion or the other job is ethically dubious, you have no reason to stay.

          Reframe it like this: do you want to pay someone $8,000 a year for the privilege an extra 2.5 hours in traffic?

          1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

            I don’t think that’s fair. There is SO much more that goes into a decision like this. alter_ego likes her current job. That’s huge, and unpredictable at a new job.

            I’m not suggesting that you don’t take the new job, alter, just that I empathize with the challenging choice you have ahead. Why did you apply for and consider the new job in the first place? What does it offer you (in addition to the easier commute and higher check, which are awesome)?

            For example, here are things I’d consider leaving my job for:

            – A few specific organizations that I know well and would love to work within.
            – A few specific people that I admire and want to work with.
            – Taking over management of a project that really excites me (more than my current work does)
            – Part-time work without losing much income

            1. FiveWheels*

              Nothing in the initial post suggested there were any really special reasons to stay, other than liking it. Unless she Loves LOVES LOVES it, or there’s reason to believe the new job is sketchy, that doesn’t outweigh:

              $8,000 salary
              $4,200 travel expenses
              10 hours a week extra time

              1. AdAgencyChick*

                Yeah, or if there was a red flag in the interview process, but it doesn’t sound like it.

                As I mentioned upthread, I’d give a different answer if OP were further along in her career and it would be harder to go somewhere else if the new job turns out to be a mistake.

        2. RVA Cat*

          Knowing now that there’s long hours at your current job in addition to the commute, it sounds like maybe your work/life balance has gotten so out of whack that I don’t see how you have much of a life at all. That isn’t sustainable. I’m also thinking that while you like your job now, you’re on track to burn out there eventually. The burnout may have already started but you may be too new to the workforce to know that.

        3. JGRAY*

          Don’t ever feel guilty for leaving a job. It sounds like you have looked at everything not just the hourly wage that some people focus on. The other things (commute, benefits) can actually make a job better than another. I actually left a job that I liked everyone and enjoyed the work except for the CEO and I did feel guilty for leaving but the CEO yelled at people, stole from the company, and was overall a jerk so I couldn’t work for him. I left for a job that paid less but my commute was less, the benefits were better so I actually wasn’t losing any money. My boss at my current job actually recognized my talent and now I make way more than I would had I stayed at old job. I also have found that some of the jobs that I had the most loyalty to once I left everything I did was basically diminished. I left a job in 2014 and I still get an e-newsletter from them and the person who does it doesn’t like me so she acts like she came up with the idea to starting doing an e-newsletter. I did it for three years so it’s not the original idea she makes it out to be. It bugs me but I know that I’m in a better place now so I don’t spend too much time thinking about it because it reflects more on her than me.

        5. mooocow*

          I just left a good job for a better job, and I’m so happy I made that choice! The day before the interview I seriously thought about cancelling because I felt like I wouldn’t want to leave my current employer anyway. The day after the interview, it was absolutely, 100% clear that I would take the new job, because it just fit so well.
          My main factors for decision making were a job description that suits my interestes and capabilities much better, an absolutely awesome company culture, and lots more $$$. I certainly was way pickier about the whole thing, and asked way more critical questions than I normally would have, simply because I knew that if I was to leave my good job, the new job would have to be pretty awesome, but I’m really glad I made the decision!

    5. KTMGee*

      Know that these feelings are all completely normal. I recommend focusing on the positive benefits of the new role (that commute cut alone is AMAZING!) You’re taking the next professional step, and that’s a good thing! You’ll leave your current employer on good terms, and hopefully your new job is great! Good luck!

    6. esemes*

      Your quality of life is super important! It sounds like this new job will increase that exponentially. Go for it! :)

    7. Maybe We Can*

      Commuting is horrible. 3 hours to 30 minutes sounds like a no-brainer to me, if you think the working environment will be a good one. That’s enough reason in and of itself to switch jobs. I always make a chart of my priorities “THese are 10 things that are important to me” then rank them “high 3” “Medium 2” or “Low 1” in importance. Then I rate each one of those things for each job. And apply the weighted scale and see which one turns out to be right. If my gut hates that, then I make the other decision.

      For me commute, boss, working environment, healthcare, time off, pay are the ones I typically end up rating.

      1. Eric with a C*

        One of the classes I was in taught this exact method for decision making, although I don’t believe it was limited to 10 items.

        I’ve used it for job searching, buying a house, buying a car. (Doesn’t work so well for deciding where to eat dinner, unfortunately)

    8. AdAgencyChick*

      I have done this a couple of times, with mixed results.

      At the point you are in your career, I say go for it. If you were pretty senior, I would say make damned sure that the new job is going to be at least as good as what you’re leaving; ask lots of questions, including of current and ex-employees who were not part of the interview process, if you can.

      But it’s easier to move around when you are early in your career. A significant raise and a far shorter commute are nothing to sneeze at. As long as you clicked with the interviewers, there’s no reason not to. After all, if it turns out the place is dysfunctional, you can job hunt again (and you’ll be doing so with a higher base salary, so you’ll be in a better position for negotiations if you’re up against a recruiter who insists on knowing what you make now).

      1. College Career Counselor*

        I agree with others that you don’t have to leave a job only when it’s a crappy situation. You can move for more $$ and better quality of life (the commute thing is huge and will give you ten extra hours a week to do other things. The only other thing I would ask is how long you have been in this current job, and if it’s a short duration (less than a year) or if the usual/customary thing for your industry is to stay for ~five years in the “entry” role, then you may have to stick with the new job for awhile.

        1. Alter_ego*

          I had my five year anniversary at my current job 3 weeks ago. So that’s not a concern at least.

          1. SanguineAspect*

            In that case, my .02 would be to make the move! You have 5 years there already, which is really great for your first job out of school. You’ll be gaining more money and more time to spend on yourself every week–I’d call that a win-win. Make the leap!

          2. Koko*

            As someone who is also approaching my 5-year anniversary, not at my first job but at the longest job I’ve held post-college, I would also say that if you do want to move on at some point, it’s going to get increasingly harder the longer you stay where you are.

            I’ve been thinking lately how with every passing month the idea of leaving this place and starting all over somewhere new sounds more and more unappealing. But I’m more than a decade into my career, I’ve worked a variety of roles, and I’ve decided I could be happy working here til I retire at this point if it came to that.

      2. Fortitude Jones*

        All of this. Leave, Alter_ego – don’t feel guilty about it at all. You’re not meant to stay in your first job out of college forever.

    9. commuterblues*

      Hundreds of dollars of savings? FIFTEEN MINUTE COMMUTE? Giving yourself a raise? There is literally no reason not to take this opportunity. It’s easy to fear the unknown, but you’ve done this before. Each time you changed schools, took a new class, picked up a new hobby, you’ve gone through the process of becoming familiar with a new environment and meeting new people.

      I’ve moved jobs like this before, and it’s a simple process – ask your direct supervisor for a 20 minute meeting. Start off with saying how you’ve enjoyed working there, you appreciate their mentorship/whatever, and that you’re happy to share that you’ve found a new opportunity that will help expand your career. Let them know what your final day will be, and be sure to follow up with an email providing the same details for everybody’s reference. That’s it. Depending on the organization they will either make you leave same day, or allow you to finish out your two week notice. You’ll provide as much documentation as possible to tie up loose ends and then ride off into a blazing sunset of success.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        Well, there might be a reason not to take it, but they weren’t mentioned. Like concerns about the stability of the company, culture, etc.

        But unless those exist, it sounds pretty much like the only thing holding alter ego back is fear of change. :)

      2. businessfish*

        the value of a shorter commute CANNOT be overstated.

        Think of it this way, if you are spending 3 hours per day, 20 days per month, 12 months per year, you are spending 720 hours commuting in a year. Divide that by 24 hours in a day – THIRTY days a year commuting.

        In contrast, a 30 minute commute gets you down to 5 days a year.

        If you got essentially 25 days of your year back, that’s game changing. think of how many shows you could binge in that time!!! (or spend time with family or friends or whatever)

        1. Alter_ego*

          I really appreciate this breakdown. Especially because it looks like the one biggest downside is going to be a loss of a couple of vacation days. But if I’m getting back even incrementally 20 days, that makes me feel a little better about it.

          1. Anonymousaurus Rex*

            I changed jobs for a job I like a lot less for a shorter commute and more money and I would do it again in a heartbeat. The short commute is a life-changer!!

          2. AdAgencyChick*

            Have you tried negotiating for more vacation? Because that could be a thing too.

            1. alter_ego*

              I’m working on it at the moment. I’m losing 5, I’m trying to claw back at least three. or at least shorten the 5 year wait until I get another 5.

              1. Jerry Vandesic*

                If they let you buy extra vacation (some companies do this), one way to handle the negotiation is to simply ask for enough additional pay to buy the extra vacation. I had someone I hired do this. It was easier from a systems POV to give the extra money rather than have the HR systems try to handle one person’s special situation.

                1. Wheezy Weasel*

                  Or even negotiate unpaid personal days. With the ‘extra’ days back in commuting and the higher salary, taking two unpaid vacation days is probably still a net plus.

        2. Grapey*

          If that commute is spent on public transit, OP could also spend it binge watching stuff. My commute is 45 mins each way but on a bus where I don’t need to transfer…I get lost in a book or research my hobby on my phone which is stuff I would be doing at home anyway.

        3. Part-time Poet*

          So true. I used to commute an hour each way, for a number of years. I did the math and it was an extra 40 hours per month. An entire week of not working that was sucked up by being on the road. And during the New England winters, it was often a white knuckle drive that took 2 – 3 hours one way. Not to mention 1 tank of gas every week. I was so tired on the weekends that I didn’t want to go out much. Then I read about someone who communted some insane amount of hours each way from and stopped feeling sorry for myself. But it was still a huge drag even though I worked at a great job that I loved and had a great boss.

    10. A Beth*

      I did something similar this spring, although it was an internal move. I liked my job, I loved my coworkers, it was my first real job (but I’d been there for almost 8 years). I stressed a lot but I’m so glad I took the leap. If I had that clearly defined list of pros you have, it would be a no-brainer!

    11. MindoverMoneyChick*

      If you’ve been at your current job 2 years or more I’d say take it. There are a few reasons.These days it’s good to build your resume early in your career by getting a wider variety of experiences. And a shorter commute will really improve the quality of your life. And the $8K raise now will set a new bar for your salary. I had access to salary data at my last job and they more people make in the short term, the more they make in the long term. It really does make a difference.

      Unless there are some big red flags regarding the people you would be working with, from the outside this one is a no-brainer.

    12. AdAgencyChick*

      A friend of mine also once suggested making a table — in one column going down, you have all the aspects of a job that are important to you. The more specific you can get, the better. You can include anything — commute, ability to work on a specific type of project, manager’s personality, etc.

      Then you have one column for each job, and you answer as best you can what you think of each job for each aspect. (For example, in your “manager” row you could write “nice to me but doesn’t provide a lot of advice on my career goals” in the Old Job column, and “seems nurturing but of course she’s an unknown quantity” in the New Job column.) And then the rightmost column is “Edge,” and you assign an edge to either Old Job or New Job (or a tie, if you think it is one).

      This is a totally anal-retentive way of doing things, I get it, but it does often cause an answer to jump out at you. At the very least, it will get you to think through the differences between the two jobs systematically, rather than freezing up out of guilt (or jumping ship too quickly, if it becomes apparent that you might be leaving a bad situation for a worse one).

    13. Beth Anne*

      I’d probably do it. I’m in a similar position where I LOVE my job but the pay is so low I’m not sure what to do. And I have the opposite commute problem….my current commute is like less than 30 minutes a day depending on traffic but all the job opportunities I see are a 3 hour commute.

    14. legalchef*

      Unless there are any red flags you aren’t mentioning, I would do this in a heartbeat. The commute time alone is worth it, but when you throw the increased salary AND the commute expense savings (is that per MONTH??) on top, that’s amazing.

      The one caveat is that you don’t mention how long you’ve been at your current job. If it’s a really short length of time, like a few months, you might want to think about it some more, but even then I would likely still take the new job (but then you’d need to stay a couple years at least).

      1. Alter_ego*

        Haha, that is per month. My train pass is 267 a month, plus for one reason or another I have to drive in and park instead about once a week, which is 38 dollars a day.

        There are benefits to working in a city, but all things commute related is not one of them.

      2. Alter_ego*

        Oh, and I’ve been at my current job just over five years, so that’s luckily not a concern.

    15. EA in CA*

      I did exactly what you did over a year ago. I wasn’t unhappy at Old Job, but an opportunity came up that would have been an advancement in my career, more money, and better benefits. Leaving is always going to be tough in these situations and it will seem like a gamble when you are leaving a job that you like. This is your first real-world job, so the change will be scary. I actually cried when I handed in my resignation to Old Boss because he was someone that I highly respected and was my mentor. The new job seems to offer you a lot more and you’ve already stated that you liked the people that interviewed you. I’d say jump at this opportunity.

      1. birds fly high by the light of the moon*

        Are you me? I just did the same thing a few months ago (including the crying). I made myself a list of things I didn’t like about the old job to keep me focused on why I needed to leave, because there was lots of hand-wringing about the fact that I said I wasn’t unhappy when I told everyone I was leaving. One thing that helps is to make sure you don’t burn any bridges on the way out (if at all possible). My boss straight up told me I could come back if I wasn’t happy at the new job, which helped me feel confident going forward.

      2. Alter_ego*

        Oh I’m 100% going to cry. I already cried to my mom for like, 45 minutes last night (the woman has the patience of a saint). Crying is my default response to any strong emotions, so with this combination of stress, fear, and sadness? Yeah, there will be tears

        1. Mananana*

          Alter, how much of your hesitation is fear? While fear is natural when facing a new situation, I’d hate to see you lose out on something good because of it.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          It’s okay to cry. Get it out and deal with whatever it is. This advice fits a lot of situations. Once the tears subside, (and they will tend to, especially if you tell yourself that is it okay to cry) how do things look?

          Think back to other times where big change made you cry. How do your tears now compare with those tears? How did those situations work out?
          Sometimes I cry because I know I am going to MAKE myself do something once the tears are done. If I was not going to do it, there would be no need for tears.
          Other times I cry because I am not listening to my gut which is saying NOOOOOO.
          And other times I cry because I am afraid to move forward AND afraid to stand still. This one is a bit easier than the others to me. I know the importance of moving forward and not allowing myself or my life to stagnate. I can kind of get myself to baby-step through something by making sure I am taking a reasonable risk. Is this new job reasonable? For example, if I am a brain surgeon it would not be reasonable to take a job repairing cars. It’s two arenas that are very different from each other. Is the new job a reasonable step to be taking? It sounds reasonable to us here, but only you know for sure. There could easily be parts we are missing.

          1. Her Grace*

            Not So New, this reminds me of a joke:
            A gynecologist, sick of the stress of his job, wanted a career change. So he went back to school to become an auto mechanic.

            He did very well in his studies. When it came time for the final exam, he threw himself into it wholeheartedly.

            When he got his final grade, he was amazed to have received 150%. When he asked his instructor about it, the instructor replied, “You got 50% for taking apart a car engine perfectly. You got another 50% for putting it back together perfectly. I awarded an extra 50% because you managed to do it all through the tail pipe.”

    16. Ghost Town*

      I literally just did this (started New Job on May 8). My old job was comfortable; I liked it and the co-workers and the students. The pay wasn’t great, but we were used to it. (my commute changed b/c of a move that coincided with the job change) I also moved schools within a university. My old job wasn’t my first, first job out of graduate school, but w/in a year of graduating and first to capitalize on my education.

      For me, I had been growing out of my old position for a while and had been at a point where I had stretch and find new things to learn and ways to grow. There was also a realization that the public university structure didn’t really allow for any recognition (financial) of X publication, Y credential, or other awesome thing that I was doing. And recognizing that the transition to a new position is always uncomfortable (to a point), a little scary, and that, no matter the position, there’ll be things I don’t know and fumble through at the beginning.

      One of the biggest scary things for me was the supervisor/coworker piece. I haven’t had a truly awful supervisor or coworker experience. There have been bad ones, but not sustained. But interviewing and talking with prospective supervisors and coworkers from a comfortable position let me relax and really participate in interviewing the new team, assessing if this was a dynamic I felt comfortable jumping into (understanding that I was only seeing a piece).

      Also, I was in my previous position for almost 8 years. I’m a lot older now, and more mature as a working professional. So, I’m more able to identify and frame the feelings that I’m having and comfortable with finding and using my professional support people and talking through concerns. Which I did. They didn’t tell me anything I didn’t know, but saying it out loud and hearing their feedback was helpful.

      And, this was a big one for me, you don’t owe old job anything (beyond the professional courtesy of notice and trying to finish projects). You need to do what is best for you. If that is new job, take it. If it is old job, stay.

      It will be ok. Old job/company will be ok. They may miss you, but that’s not a bad thing.

      Best of luck!

    17. GinX*

      I think this is actually the best case scenario for leaving a job–you don’t have any negatives about your current job to explain away later; just positives about your new job. I think any future employer will understand that, and chances are, your current one will too. It’s always hard to leave a job that’s not terrible, especially if you like the people you work with. But once you’re past the uncomfortable part of telling them you’re leaving, you’ll probably feel much better.

    18. Accidental Analyst*

      As others have mentioned those are some pretty compelling reasons to consider moving on. Another thing to think about is that you’ve now been in your first post college job for 5 years. It’s easy to let comfort of knowing your role (and company) and fear of will I succeed somewhere else hold you back from leaving when you should. Maybe consider this an opportunity to prove that you can succeed in a different environment.

    19. Sandy Gnome*

      I did something very similar just over a year ago. I liked the job I was in, but I was going to cut almost 2 hours a day of commuting time, which was going to save a couple hundred a month in travel costs. I liked the job I was doing, but the extra 10 hours per week I suddenly gained was a big deal to me. I asked a lot of questions at the interview that gave me a good feel for what I would be walking into, and looking back at the last year, I am very glad I made the switch. Others have mentioned this, but I’d like to reiterate that any reasonable boss/person would completely understand the reasons you have for making this kind of switch.

    20. knitcrazybooknut*

      One of my best tricks in a situation like this is to pretend you’ve made a decision and listen to how you feel once you pretend it’s done and settled. How does it feel to work that new job? How does it feel to go back to your old job if you’ve turned down the new offer?

    21. Tableau Wizard*

      I literally just did this, except I took a pay cut to do it . I loved my job, even with a boss who was difficult, but the change in my personal life because of the reduction in my commute has been truly life-changing and I wouldn’t give it up for anything in the world.

      What I will say is that I was SO worried that leaving this job, where I had built a unique, somewhat irreplaceable skill set, was going to be a HUGE deal. I was SO worried that it would be received badly. And it wasn’t nearly the drama that I had imagined. Yes, my boss was sad to see me go, but she was also happy for me that I was able to improve my commute and my life. I came away realizing that while the change seemed HUGE for me, it was just a part of doing business for everyone else. It will be okay. Do what is best for you!

    22. Quinalla*

      I left my first “real job” after college. I didn’t think I was unhappy, but I was getting bored in the role and had no room to advance. After I left the environment which had gotten increasingly toxic, I realized that I had been fairly unhappy. Even though I was getting a big raise and would have so much opportunity to grow (though I did lengthen my commute a bit) and had similar benefits and more vacation time (which I also negotiated for, definitely push for more vacation days to get about the same as you have now if you can), I still had weird feelings about leaving, that maybe I wasn’t really ready to leave. It was honestly ridiculous in my case, I’d outgrown the place probably 5+ years ago (I was there for 13 years), but I still had that feeling. You can never be sure when you change jobs, but it sounds like you have a lot in the positive row and little to nothing in the negative row at least that is known. I’d examine your gut feelings again about the interview and make sure you’ve done your homework on the company, but it sounds like a great move for you!

    23. Emmie*

      Some wait until their unhappy to leave a job, but improving your quality of life is an even better reason to start something new. The money is nice; however, you’ll get 2 1/2 hours of your life back. It’s okay to go.

    24. Not So NewReader*

      Leaving any job is hard. Leaving a bad job is hard for a different set of reasons, but still hard.

      A decision making model I tend to favor goes away from the pro/con list . The problem with the pro/con list is that how do you know when you are done making the list? It might be very useful to look for one very strong reason to either stay or go, instead.

      For me I would chose to go because of health. That commute would be killing me slowly.

      I also know that the longer I stay at a job the harder it is to leave. The familiar usually seems better than the unfamiliar. My question to you is if you stay at current job how will you advance there? Envision yourself at this current job for 5 more years, are you happy you stayed?

    26. Super B*

      Looks like you got a lot of advice here to go for it already, but this hit home to me and I just wanted to share my experience. Last year I quit a job I had been doing for 4 1/2 years and was passionate about, for a job that paid less and wasn’t as interesting. Why? A 20 minute roundtrip commute vs. almost 2 hours I was commuting before. The extra time I get to spend with my family and exercise and do things I couldn’t dream of before because I was either commuting or working or laying down exhausted, decompressing from it all, made a world of difference in my well being. I am healthier, happier, and never looked back. New job turned out to be more interesting than predicted, too, and I made new friends.

    27. MissDisplaced*

      This is a best case scenario for leaving a job!
      More money, shorter commute, what’s not to like?
      But what you really have to ask yourself is this: does the new job make sense for you and where you want your career to go? Sometimes, the extra money and commute are WORTH a somewhat “lesser” job at certain points, though probably not for you early on in your career.
      But all things aside, if the new company checks out, and the move makes sense for your career aspirations, then do not feel bad about leaving a job you like (but maybe are not in love with).

    28. Queen Frostine*

      I had a hard time leaving my first job out of college too. Part of that was not having much appreciation for how much else was out there, but mostly it was stockholm syndrome, which I didn’t realize until much further down the road. I wasn’t being treated as well as I thought, and I didn’t have the context to know that until I’d worked a couple of other places.

      I really don’t mean this in a condescending way, but it can be hard to have perspective with your first full-time job. I didn’t realize how big of a deal work/life balance was until later, but you’ll start to value it more as your career progresses. If the new place seems like a good culture fit and you’re getting 2.5 hours of your life back every day with the commute, it sounds like the right move :)

    29. LENEL*

      Congratulations, Alter_ego!

      I was in a similar position 4 years ago. I liked my job but I had a 3 hour round commute each day (1h – 1h15m driving including toll, then another 20 or so minutes on a bus) and I moved for a small pay bump but a 5 minute commute, which is now a 15 minute commute.
      I interviewed, knew I nailed it but would have less opportunities but it improved my quality of life tenfold!
      I cried a lot contemplating the change – I don’t deal well with change and it seemed like a huge one at the time and it was! Not only did I save a bomb in money and time (and get to have hobbies and gain quality of life!) I have gained whole heap of amazing experience.
      It’s not going to be easy if/when I decide it’s time to leave here and I have to go back to travelling but it will be do-able and I know it will because I’ve done it before.
      I also have found that the trade off which has kept me here is that I can take my dog for a walk in the morning, still start work around 8am, can carpool with my husband and still participate with my community groups and look after my health a bit better.
      No matter what you decide, congratulations on having a solid offer on the table!

  2. AdAgencyChick*

    TL;DR: Freelancers: How long do you wait before writing a client off as a deadbeat?

    I’ve been working for one of my non-ad-agency clients for about two years. I’ve known the whole time about his potential as a deadbeat: My predecessor in the job quit because he stiffed her, and she warned me about it. I decided to try it out for a month, and since he hired a business manager who took care of payroll, I always got paid in full and on time, which is why I’ve been doing this for two years.

    However, a couple of weeks ago, he abruptly fired his business manager. (I don’t know details, but I know enough to know the problem is more with his general high-strung-ness than with anything the business manager did or didn’t do.) Unfortunately, he did this right after I had sent in my invoice (plus the invoices of all the other writers whose work I edit) for the last month.

    He has said, in an email, that payday would be June 1. I’ve been waiting anxiously to see whether the direct deposit would arrive. It hasn’t — for me or for the writers.

    I’ve decided not to do any more work unless I’m paid for what I’ve already done, and I’ve also decided that if he continues to drag his feet, at some point I will exercise a nuclear option that will consist of a) telling him I won’t do more work unless paid; and b) removing all files that the writers and I have worked on but not been paid for from shared folders, and not giving them back unless paid.

    The question is, how long do I wait on the nuclear option? The longer I wait, the fewer files I have to hold hostage (it’s about a month’s worth of work at this point). I enjoy this work a lot and would like to keep doing it if I can get this guy to pay me. Since, as I mentioned above, he’s pretty high-strung, I’m pretty sure that if I do what I described above, it will be the nuclear option that ends this working relationship. But I also won’t work for free.

    1. Cambridge Comma*

      Do you belong to any online editing groups? I would think you would get really helpful answers to this question in EAE Backroom or on C-EL.

    2. HisGirlFriday*

      Part of me says, I would password protect and/or remove them as of today — it’s June 2, and he promised you’d be paid by yesterday.

      But that is the nuclear option, and would probably blow up the relationship, when it could just be an honest mistake on his end.

      I would e-mail him and said, ‘Fergus, as you know, I submitted an invoice for $X,XXX on MM/DD. This invoice represented Y hours of work for me and Z number of freelancers. You indicated that we would be paid on June 1, and we were not. Given that we submitted the work to you, and invoiced you properly, I am concerned that we have not been paid. When can we expect to see payment for work completed?’

      And then if he says it WAS a glitch, and you’ll be paid today (or Monday or whenever), you can count that as a second and final chance. If the second date comes and goes with no payment, then I think you remove the files.

      1. JulieBulie*

        Because he’s done this before (it’s why AdAgencyChick’s predecessor quit), blowing up the relationship might not be such a bad thing.

        At any rate, I think it’s a good idea to password protect the files now to show that you’re serious.

        Rather than ask him when he’ll get around to paying, I’d use most of HisGirlFriday’s wording but set a deadline, of, say, COB Tuesday. A close deadline is more likely to create a sense of urgency. I would also include the words “payment in full.”

        If the money isn’t there by Wednesday noon, take all of the files away.

        Don’t be surprised if he gives only a partial payment. If that happens, take all of the files away anyhow and ask him which half (or whatever fraction) of the files he would like.

        1. Pineapple Incident*

          I agree with this/HisGirlFriday. Drawing a hard line is the only way to work with people like the deadbeat client.

        2. Artemesia*

          I’d assume he would move the files when he got the reminder so I’d password protect them immediately. He may actually not notice, but it does block his use of the work if he stiffs you. This is not a glitch, it is the way he does business. Going forward, I would be asking at least half the pay in advance or else require full payment before the files are unlocked i.e. do the work but never release it until paid.

        3. AdAgencyChick*

          “Blowing up the relationship might not be such a bad thing.”

          Yes, and I’m prepared to do it. I don’t actually need the money from this work — my day job pays way better — and I do it for love of the work. If I have to break things off, I won’t have to scramble to make up the lost income. I’ll just miss the work I was doing. (Not enough to do it out of charity, though.)

          1. Stickler*

            Protect the files before you send the email. If he is truly a bad character not intending to pay he will have copied or otherwise protected them when he sees your email asking for the $.

        4. Shishimai*

          …I’d be SO tempted to give, say, X% of each file, as truncated based on length with a hex editor. >:D

          (Is this a polite or professional response? Heck no. But I can dream.)

      2. AdAgencyChick*

        Yeah, I think this is what I’m going to do (since I already have emailed him asking when we would be paid, and gotten his “it was a glitch, I swear” response).

    3. Apollo Warbucks*

      I would take the files back now, but I’ve got very little patience for people who can’t be bothered to pay others what they owe them.

    4. JulieBulie*

      Since your predecessor quit because of this kind of behavior, this probably won’t be the last time this happens. I think you should invoke the nuclear option as soon as you see fit. If there is a particular date that is meaningful to you, then email him with that as your deadline. Personally, I would set the deadline to COB Tuesday. (A short time window is more likely to create a sense of urgency.) If the money isn’t there by Wednesday noon, cut him loose and move on.

      Make sure your email states that he must Pay In Full. Don’t be surprised if he only pays half. In that case, withdraw all the files and ask him which half he would like.

    5. Aphrodite*

      Don’t wait. Pull those files now. If he was going to pay you he would have done so already. You might as well fire him as a client now because it will only get worse. (And you are probably not the first person he has done this to.0

    6. MuseumChick*

      I agree with the others saying password protect/take back the work now. Send him an email explaning that you have not received payment as agreed and once you do the work will be made available again.

    8. ArtK*

      1) Go “nuclear” *now*. Don’t wait. You’re being far too nice. So what if it blows up the relationship? There’s no relationship here because he’s not keeping up his end of the bargain. What is the upside to having him as a client?
      2) Small claims court.

    9. MsChanandlerBong*

      Does he typically send direct deposits on the same day? If so, do they hit your account the same day? I get paid on the 2nd and 16th of the month, but my pay doesn’t actually hit my account until the 3rd and 17th. I get the idea from my colleagues that I get my pay faster than they do; one of them said his doesn’t hit his account until the 20th. Is there a chance that he did submit the direct deposit and it didn’t hit your bank yet? If not, then I’d password-protect everything and tell him you’ll release it when you’re paid.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Not same-day, but I submitted the invoices more than a week ago. Two days later, when he told me the business manager was no longer with the company, my immediate response was to ask “when’s payday? I want to know what to tell the writers.” He said that he was processing the invoices that day and that we would receive direct deposit on the 1st.

        He is head-in-clouds enough that this *could* be a problem of his needing to learn how to use the payroll system properly, and he did manage to pay me (because of business manager) for 2 years. But he also stiffed someone in the past, which makes me not want to give him a lot of chances.

        Thanks for the advice, all. I have a plan of action and will provide an update next go-round!

    10. Lady Russell's Turban*

      Honestly, I would pull the files NOW. You need as much leverage as you can get.

      Visit the website clientsfromhell.net and look at some of their resources/advice. I am not a freelancer but enjoy reading the crazy stories and gleaning tips for a loved one who is a new freelancer in a creative field. If the sum is significant you might want to contact a lawyer.

  3. o.b.*

    Desperately seeking advice from anyone who works/hires in government!

    I’m one of the top two candidates out of 400 applicants for a step-above-entry-level job with my city. I am thrilled about this and about the position (its mission, its managers, its healthcare…). BUT before the hiring manager can recommend one of the candidates for hire, she intends to speak with BOTH our current supervisors for references—and then recommend ONE of us. I pushed back in the interview and was told speaking with a current supervisor is nonnegotiable, but I didn’t learn until now that they planned on speaking with both candidates’ supervisors.

    I have a good relationship with my boss, but it’s a small private-sector company and I have a pretty central role, so I’m still extremely uncomfortable with this. If it were an offer contingent on a good reference, I’d be willing to have that uncomfortable conversation with my boss and hope things worked out. As it stands, though, I’m upset and unnerved and second-guessing what seemed like an amazing position.

    How do I push back on this without compromising my candidacy? Is there any way to avoid this short of withdrawing from consideration? Any suggested language for talking to my boss? Any success stories or cautionary tales?

    1. Anonymous Poster*

      Government hiring can often be a bit… dim about these sorts of conventions.

      This pops up in discussions about clearances for government roles while working for another employer too. In those instances, the investigator is willing to forego talking with your current employer if you can provide a few (from what I understand in this particular case, 3) former coworkers who can speak to your ability to do the job, work ethic, and the like. A background investigator is looking for very different things than a smart hiring manager, but could you suggest something along those lines? Former coworkers who have since left and are willing to be good references?

      Otherwise you may have identified your only options… Your employer knows and you may or may not get the job, or forego this particular opportunity. Hope it works out for you.

      1. o.b.*

        Yeah, I offered a former coworker as a reference, but no dice :/ Thanks for the suggestions though!

    2. Another person*

      My current agency has this written into policy and it really is not negotiable. They are very strict about treating all candidates the same. Don’t be surprised if you really can’t get an exception.

        1. Sunflower*

          Are you set on a gov’t job for your next position? If you are, this might be something you’ll continue to run into in which case it makes sense to just have a talk with your boss and explain the deal.

          1. o.b.*

            Good point. I’m set on a job in a specific sector/subsector, and those often happen to be with the government.

            1. o.b.*

              Like, really good point; this played a big part in my decision to talk to my boss Monday. Thank you!

    3. Lindsey*

      Will they talk to a previous supervisor?

      Honestly, unless this is 100% your dream job, I wouldn’t talk to your current boss about it given what you’ve said here. Most bosses, if an employee came like that to them, would actively start to manage the employee out of the organization.

      2. MsMaryMary*

        I think it’s an overstatement to say that most bosses would manage you out of the organization. I’m not saying it’s not risky. Some managers would absolutely react poorly. But when I managed people I was always supportive of my reports’ career plans. Partially because I generally try not to be an asshole, but also because you never know where life will take you and when you’ll run into someone again.

        So, if you feel like if you told your boss you’ve gotten this job, she’d be supportive and say something like, “we hate to lose you but I understand why you’d take this opportunity” then go ahead and list your boss as a reference.

        1. Jerry Vandesic*

          They might not manage you out, but they would likely adjust things so that you are no longer on critical projects. Once your boss knows you are leaving, they will want to protect the organization when you eventually leave, even if it isn’t right away. Your role will be diminished even if you aren’t managed out.

          1. o.b.*

            What you described doesn’t really apply to my role, thankfully. They can’t manage me out, but they could outright ask me to leave. But this job is so different than what I’m doing now (like I said below, think helping people without teapots get access to teapots vs. working at a high-end teapot store) that I really hope they’ll understand and support me.

      3. Jessica*

        “Thrilled” and “amazing” are not typically words I would use in conjunction with government jobs…what makes this one special? ;-)

        1. Starbuck*

          Government jobs can be great! I worked at an environmental education center at a wildlife refuge (owned and managed by the federal govt) and while there were a few annoying bureaucracy quirks, it’s a place I’d return to in a heartbeat if I could. Same with the friends I have working in wildlife biology.

          1. o.b.*

            @Jessica, it’s in an area of community development that I’m very passionate about, and while I like my current job, there’s no passion there (think, helping people without teapots get access to teapots vs. working at a high-end teapot store). The hiring manager is sharp and seems like she would inspire me to grow and perform better. I’m dying for a challenge. And they offer healthcare and paid vacation, two things my teapot store does not offer ;)

            There are already some annoying bureaucracy quirks (liiiike having to call my current boss!), but since I have that expectation going in, I’m hoping it will be only manageably frustrating. @Starbuck, that job sounds awesome. What kind of wildlife? Did you get to interact with them?

        2. Jane*

          There are lots of amazing government jobs out there. Teachers, firefighters, park rangers, scientists of all stripes, doctors, social workers. In my field the most enjoyable jobs are almost always federal or county positions. State jobs pay so abysmally in my field here in California that I am not including them in the awesome category.

      4. NJ Anon*

        Not true. Maybe I’m unusual but I would not do this. I encourage open communication with staff. People are not always going to stay in one job forever.

    4. LNZ*

      Honestly i don’t think you can push back, and if you do push back to much it will look like you have something to hide.
      I would talk to your boss as soon as you can, be honest that you like your current job but this is a good opportunity. If they are a decent boss they wont hold it against you.

    5. CatCat*

      Are you concerned that you will jeopardize your current job if they speak to your current supervisor? Is that something that happens at your organization?

      If so, I would tell the hiring manager that. “Unfortunately, at my organization, my job could be in jeopardy if they know I am job searching. I am certain my supervisor will provide a positive reference and I would be comfortable with this if I had an offer contingent on that positive reference. I am really excited about this opportunity, but without an offer, I cannot risk my livelihood on it as I am sure you can understand. Is there any other option here?”

      My experience in government is that if the hiring manager actually wants to get something done, they can find a way to get it done or be crystal clear what the insurmountable obstacle is. I wouldn’t risk my means of putting food on the table for this.

    6. Anon for this one*

      I did push back on this. I said that they could speak with current co-workers, but that if they made me an offer, it could be contingent on their discussion with current Supervisors. It worked for me, but not sure it will work for you.

    7. H.C.*

      Yikes, recently-joined gov’t employee here, but thankfully didn’t get this during my interview/application process (they asked for general references and performance reviews.)

      Did you always have the same supervisor in CurrentJob? If not, can you see if ex-supervisor can provide that reference? You can even make a better case for this if your current supervisor hasn’t been your boss for long, meaning he/she may not be able to fully evaluate your work.

      If that doesn’t pan out – then yeah, ultimately you’ll have to decide if speaking to your current boss really is a nonnegotiable and if it’s not, take the time to have that awkward conversation with your boss about it.

    8. not my usual alias*

      In my experience, this is not a Government thing. This is a Your Particular Employer thing. (I’m not saying some government agencies don’t do it as well, just that it’s not standard.)

    9. JC Denton*

      This is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don’t situations with the Fed. If there are two of you still in the running, I assume this agency does not given conditional offers. If they did, you could feel more secure in letting them speak with your current supervisor. Since they probably don’t, I’d be blunt. I’d tell the hiring manager that they can speak with your current supervisor, with the understanding that it’ll likely “tip your hand” and cause problems should you not be appointed. Just say you’re not prepared to have them make that call unless a “positive outcome” can come as a result of a good conversation.

      I know a friend who was going through his background investigation right when the Trump hiring freeze hit earlier this year. The employees knew, the employer knew, and of course, the boss knew. Sour grapes all around until the job offer hit when the role was exempted a couple months ago.

    10. Thinking Outside the Boss*

      I’m a managing attorney for a state government office in California. There are two things that caught my eye in your post.

      First, we will let candidates give a reason why his or her current employer shouldn’t be called, e.g. potential of a candidate losing their job. However, in return, we would expect 2-3 solid work references from other supervisors and managers, and not coworkers. Is your current job your first job or do you have a work history that the government employer could contact other managers and supervisors? If it’s the former, they may not offer you the job if they can’t verify any work references for you but they can for the other candidate. You will probably have to have them call your current boss if that’s the only work reference you have.

      Second, our office doesn’t make offers contingent upon a positive reference. We always clear the references first before making an offer. My first government employer was the same way. So I think you won’t have a firm offer first before having to talk to your boss.

      Before my first government job, my private sector boss was exceptionally petty and retaliatory. When I interviewed with the government agency, I told them at the interview the way my boss was and that he may not give me a great reference, but I could give them other professional references. I was quite shocked that when the government agency called my boss, he gave me a glowing recommendation. Sometimes, you have to take your chances.

      Good luck!

    11. AdAgencyChick*

      “How do I push back on this without compromising my candidacy?”

      You might not be able to. For me the bird in the hand would be worth more than the two in the bush.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        BTW, this is an obnoxious interview practice of theirs. If you withdraw your candidacy, I might actually tell them, “Have you considered that you might lose good candidates because of this policy?”

        1. Starbuck*

          They said 400 people had applied, so I can’t imagine their concern would be very great unfortunately.

    12. SorryLateResponse*

      I had the exact situation pop-up for me in interviewing for a federal role. The fed hiring manager asked for supervisory references and I did not feel comfortable offering up my current supervisor as a reference. I found it to be too risky to let my current supervisor know I was job hunting when there was a possibility that I would not even get the job since there was another person in the running for the fed role. When I pushed back and offered peer references that served as leaders on projects I worked on and my concerns about repercussions at my current job, the fed hiring manager said that wasn’t good enough. After talking with people that worked in different departments of the agency, it turned out that this wasn’t an agency practice but possibly a quirk of the hiring manager because that department saw lots of turnover (foreshadowing red flag here). Do you know anyone else in the agency or department that you could ask, as it might mean a redflag with the supervisor?

      In the end, I coalesced and asked my current my supervisor for a reference and framed the other job as an opportunity that I didn’t want to miss out on. Yet, due to my experiences with the fed hiring manager regarding supervisory references and a subsequent conversation with soon to be future fed coworkers about how their department was hemorrhaging staffers, I decided to decline the offer. I found the fed hiring manager unwillingness to be understanding of my situation to be a major redflag and from what it sounded like from future fed corworkers I potentially avoided a difficult work situation.

  4. Cambridge Comma*

    Questions for team responsible for implementing change project:
    I will be writing an article for the employee magazine that is an interview with the team responsible for a large change project in our large organization.
    It’s not part of my day to day job and I don’t have any experience of carrying out interviews.
    The project has just finished and was wildly unpopular. I suspect the team has had to deal with a lot of unfair and agressive behaviour from colleagues. For many of them, their contract will soon finsih.
    Ideally the interview questions would elicit a postive answer, and would make the reader realise that the change project they were moaning about for the last five years was staffed by people just like them who were trying to get their assigned tasks done.
    I’d appreciate any suggestions for questions I can ask them, or any insight from people who have worked on a team like this.

    1. Cambridge Comma*

      My ideas so far:
      What made them the right people for the job, i.e. their background and expertise.
      How it felt to be part of the team during different stages of the project.
      What their biggest achievement during the project was.
      How they supported one another during the project.
      Tips for dealing with stress during an intensive project like this one.

    2. JulieBulie*

      Ask “what things do you hope people will come to appreciate after they’ve [worked with/experienced] the [thing that changed]?”

      1. nofelix*

        I think it’d be difficult to answer that without sounding resentful or ducking the question.

        1. Cambridge Comma*

          I think (obviously with the advantage of knowing the real context) that there’s a slightly different way to ask this question that would work really well, thanks, Julie!

    3. Lora*

      Have you done similar projects in the past and how did they help? What were the speedbumps in those projects? How did it work out in the end?
      Where do you come from, what got you into doing this type of a thing? Can you tell us about other places specifically where you’ve done this stuff? What led the CEO to make this decision? What were the benefits?
      What concerns/issues have you heard/do you frequently hear and how have they been addressed? (message to employees: we do actually hear your complaints and try to do stuff about them as much as we can)
      What was the most difficult part of this job for you? What part do you like the best, why do you come to work to do this and not just go fishing or whatever?

    4. Undine*

      What was the major problem(s) they were trying to address
      What overarching principles did they follow in looking for a solution
      What tradeoffs/constraints were inherent in the project (like scope vs. complexity — you can’t be vast and simple)
      What did they learn from working on the project — not just about tools or this project, but about organizations/people/?/
      What would they do differently next time

    5. nofelix*

      I think you’re maybe aiming too high if you want to change people’s minds about the change project, but humanising the interviewees is always good. If this is a moral-boosting exercise then think from the perspective of the employees reading it: if they think a load of know-it-alls came in and messed things up then they are unlikely to be open to hearing how the same know-it-alls think it went. Also be aware that any ex-employee might show some bitterness so you need to decide whether all responses will be printed and be clear to interviewees if some might be omitted.

      You have a difficult brief. I’d include questions like:

      – What did you enjoy about working here?
      – Who/what will you miss?
      – What did you learn from this project?

      These are admittedly entirely self serving questions and some ex-employees might laugh at them. But this kind of thing is what remaining employees will like hearing about, and it sounds like they are the priority. Hopefully if they feel flattered there might be some halo effect to improve how they see the change project.

      1. Cambridge Comma*

        I don’t want to change anyone’s mind, I just want to humanize the team and hopefully give them the chance to have their say.
        I like the question about what they learned.

    6. Cambridge Comma*

      Thanks for these answers, it’s been so helpful to have some different perspectives. I’m really keen to do a good job as these colleagues have really got the unfair end of the wedge these last five years.

    7. LQ*

      I’d maybe come at this a different way and ask things like what did you learn from the people you worked with (who weren’t a part of the project). If you get them to compliment the people who will be reading this it’s harder to hate someone who says nice things about you. What did you respect most about them? What did you learn from them? What did you like about them? What was your best experience?

    8. Dr.Fafa*

      Coming from a design background, we were always taught to verbally justify our decisions and work to the audience so that they understand better what they’re seeing- it always, always yields positive results. Perhaps giving the people in the team a platform to talk about their justifications and thought processes behind the project would be a good move. It keeps the article a little less personal to the already scrutinized team members, and gives juicy details about a project so many employees already have strong feelings about. Win, win, win.

  5. Dustbunny*

    One of my manager’s peers said to me recently that she thinks I don’t advocate for myself or my work enough, and that I should be speaking up more about my skills and achievements. I think she’s probably right, but it’s something that does not come naturally to me.

    Everything I work on involves lots of people from other teams, most of whom are less experienced than me and who are probably more in need of thanks/ kudos. Most of what I do is in the background, facilitative project management. I’m quite happy to say ‘Wakeen did really well on x’, but it’s much harder to say ‘I did really well in briefing and advising Wakeen’, or ‘Wakeen’s work was part of a much wider project that only stayed on track because of me’.

    How do I speak up about my achievements without sounding arrogant and dismissive of the contribution of others?

    1. AnonyMouse*

      I don’t think it sounds arrogant and dismissive if you say something like, “I helped to keep this project on track by implementing a clear schedule and checking in regularly with Wakeen to make sure he was getting the support he needed.” I don’t think that says anything bad about Wakeen’s work — you just have different roles where he is a project worker and you’re the project manager. You are supposed to advise and help the others on the team, it sounds like, so it’s fair for you to say, “hey, I did my job well, and here’s how it helped the team.”
      You could also say something like, “For someone on the first year of the job, Wakeen’s really impressed me with his skills in X and Y. But I realized he hasn’t gotten much guidance on how to prioritize things and so I worked with him to come up with a framework for this project, so he feels more supported” to emphasize his good work but also be realistic about his lower level of experience.

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        I like all of these! I struggle with the same thing, but especially in a teamwork-based environment it can be easier to talk about your successes/skills in the context of helping others enhance their own or getting a project done that required leveraging strengths from several individuals.

      2. CM*

        Yes, “Here’s how my work contributed to the success of this project” is how you do it, rather than “I did x really well.” For example, “This project had an aggressive deadline that we didn’t think we would be able to meet. I worked to coordinate all the teams and to get them to commit to a project plan that kept us on schedule.” It may also help to think about how others see your work. You could even ask them, or notice what people thank/compliment you for.

      3. FTW*

        I would recommend not using words like ‘helped’, ‘assisted’, or ‘coordinated’. All of these are exactly the type of words that down play your contribution.

        Be bold here. You ‘led’ or ‘managed’ projects. You validated progress of he team, have feedback on priorities, identified and mitigates risks. You coached team members, etc.

    2. LNZ*

      Honestly fake it til you make it.
      It will feel very artificial at first but after a while it’ll become natural.
      praise sin’t a finite resource, you can take credit for you own success while also lifting up the others you helped.

    3. Undine*

      “Wakeen came in with very little experience in x, and I was able to help him come up to speed efficiently”
      “This was difficult because so many people hadn’t worked together before, and I worked hard to keep them on track and help them become a real team.”
      “I am an effective mentor and facilitator, and I always look for ways to help people grow when they are working on my projects.”

    4. Stop That Goat*

      I have a similar problem in that I’m just not very good at ‘selling myself’. I feel really arrogant talking about my successes (particularly during interviews) so I struggle with it. I know you didn’t ask particularly about interviews but when I’m preparing, I remind myself that these people WANT to hear about my successes and skills. It makes it a little easier for me when I frame it as giving them something they want over randomly talking about myself.

    5. Trout 'Waver*

      Honestly, if the project went smoothly and you’re in charge of the project, then it is totally appropriate to use redirect kudos to individual contributors. I think that’s leadership 101.

      That being said, I’d get used to saying “Yes, and….” with confidence rather than deflecting compliments. For example:

      Fergus: Wow the convention really went well this year. Much better than the squirrel fiasco of 2016.
      You: Yes, the whole team did a great job. Wakeen was particularly helpful with his IT support.

      I think comments like that show someone to be competent at recognizing competence and at managing teams.

    6. Michele*

      I find that it helps to write things like this out. I am uncomfortable tooting my own horn, but I know that it is necessary. Sometimes I have a hard time pinning down exactly what I have done, so I make a list. “I have been meeting with Wakeen regularly to ensure he stays on track” or “I have been advising Wakeen on the correct course.”

      1. BF50*

        +1 I keep a running list of my “wins” throughout the year. When I am framing something as a personal win in my own mind, regularly it makes it easier to accept the praise when it comes. It’s also really helpful come review time, job hunting, or asking for a raise.

    7. AH*

      How often do other people in your organization toot their own horn? If so, challenge yourself to follow their example. It is odd, but eventually gets easier.

      Also, think about it from the perspective that if you are very good at your job and believe in your organization, you would want people like you managing and leading-not unqualified people. Consider it an investment in your organization that they recognize who contributes.

      Finally, for written performance evaluations or preparing for verbal for performance evaluations, I try and imagine that if a nemesis of mine (who thinks VERY highly of himself) were to write a performance evaluation of himself using my accomplishments, what would he say. It makes it much easier for me that way.

    9. Quinalla*

      I also have this problem, but have improved a lot this year! I basically had a kick in the pants from my COO when I was doing my normal self-deprecating talk and he said “Stop that now, don’t talk down on yourself!” and so on. It made me realize how bad I am about not bragging, but doing the opposite, talking down my achievements and accomplishments!

      So first, I started keeping a log, nothing formal just in a word doc, of my accomplishments. I tried to write down everything from the past 2 years and then try to update it about monthly. Just the act of writing down all the stuff I do made me start appreciating my own work. Maybe it sounds silly, but this by itself was a huge step for me, having that “Yes, I do good work and I should be proud and brag a little.” went a long way.

      Then, I sat down and convinced myself that if I don’t speak up for myself, no one else is likely to do it. Sure, the occasional person will, but mostly I would be hurting my career advancement by not speaking up. And for me, my family is my big motivator and I want to make sure I’m getting the raises and whatnot that I deserve so I can more easily support them.

      Next, I started forcing myself to speak up and take credit for things either in bigger meetings or just with a project manager or boss (I have a lot of bosses :) ). I started with a couple really big things I did that went above and beyond as that was easier.

      Then I read this book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001J2UVA2
      I HIGHLY recommend it as a way to learn to brag without feeling like you are being that annoying person that is a jerk braggart. It helps you get over all the internalized voices that tell you that bragging is bad and helps train you to brag well and target your brags to your audience.

    10. Belle di Vedremo*

      I like to think of things like this as being the backstage manager rather than the star performers, or as a teacher bringing the skills and gifts of others into view for themselves and others. It’s easier for me to think about the kinds of things I do as ways to help others shine, which means that the “performers” or “students” are doing a separate job rather than one better/beneath mine. Keeping things in order, keeping track of the (musical) score and timing for lights, cameras, and action, making sure that the props are in order and available, coordinating with the director to make sure her vision is coming into view are all particular and necessary skills, where the better skilled I am the better the show even if I’m not visible/audible on stage.

      It’s easier for me to think about the components of what’s needed and who is doing what, and describe my response to the needs expressed along the way and those and built into the plan (and how some of those expressed needs become part of the next plan) than it is to describe a performance as if in a starring role. It’s helped me move more toward talking about what I bring/brought to something in ways that don’t feel like bragging, which is important for someone who was raised to believe that one’s work speaks for itself.

      So how about something like, “I put together a briefing/advised Wakeen on xyz to highlight abc in ways that supported advancing causes fgh; based on the the goals of the organization I put it together with background info drawn from Jane, the Teapots Dept, and Accounting’s concerns for appropriate financial reporting on the program.” Or “I managed the timeline and offered support to the departments working on Project Y for an on time, on budget production; this included doing blah blah and identifying going concerns in yada yada and built resolutions this that and other into our template for related projects going forward. This allowed the involved depts to have a deeper understanding of the context and interconnections (eg, “backstory”) of the project which resulted in a performance that met/exceeded the requested performance.”

  6. WellRed*

    My state legislature has bills pending re: no asking for salary history and no asking for criminal history. One small step at a time.

    1. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

      Both of those things really grind my gears so I hope more states follow suit and prevent questions like this

      1. Kinsley M.*

        Honestly, as someone who runs the background checks for every single new hire in our organization, the question isn’t even answered truthfully. Our current app asks simply if you’ve have a felony conviction within the last seven years and if yes to explain. I’d say it’s upwards of 95% of applicants who check no. And then low and behold when I run the check after offering employment, they lied and we pull the offer. Even if the conviction isn’t one that’d have been a no go, they lied.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I think that people who have criminal backgrounds deserve a 2nd chance, but I also think that there are some positions where it is extremely relevant if someone has a specific type of charge in their background.

      For example: I would not want to hire someone convicted of retail theft to work in a retail environment. Nor would I want to hire someone with a conviction for child pornography to be a janitor in a school.

      1. LizB*

        Although I don’t know what state WellRed is in, generally this type of legislation is not banning background checks (which would be ridiculous), but “ban the box” – i.e. making it illegal for employers to ask on the initial application if the applicant has a criminal record. For many employers, that question is an easy way to weed people out, so people with past charges never even get to a phone screen/interview. It’s definitely important that applicants’ backgrounds get looked at eventually, but if you intentionally or subconsciously reject anyone who checks the “yes I have a record” box, it really disadvantages those people in an unnecessary way.

        1. Hapless Bureaucrat*

          Yes exactly. We have ban the box legislation, but can still ask about criminal history later. My employer makes offers of employment contingent on passing a background check. So you decide on the candidate before you see criminal history.
          In fields where certain convictions at automatic exclusions from employment, employers often state that in the posting.

        4. fposte*

          Though there’s at least one study to suggest that in ban-the-box states, unemployment goes up for young minority men generally–that when the box is banned, a bigger group gets discriminated against.

          1. CM*

            That’s really interesting. I Googled “Ban the Box” unemployment and found a Mother Jones article citing that study. It said that candidates who are young black men without criminal records are LESS likely to get interviews where they have “ban the box” laws, presumably because employers assume that they are criminals, and the candidates don’t have a chance to say that they are not. :(

            1. fposte*

              I’m hoping that this is preliminary research and that it actually plays out differently in time–it’s a single study, as CM notes. But geez, what a sucky outcome even there.

      2. Screening Co Employee*

        Most of the laws that ban you from asking about Criminal History just ban it until later in the process. The idea is that you’re not supposed to screen for things that are irrelevant (e.g. it doesn’t matter if you have issues stealing money if you’re not going to have any access to money), and asking such a broad question about have you ever been committed of a crime can give you irrelevant information that would disqualify an otherwise qualified candidate.

      3. BlueWolf*

        My guess is that the law about not asking for criminal history just means that they can’t ask about criminal history on an application. That’s how other states’ laws work. It’s just meant to prevent people from screening applicants out for having a criminal history without even giving them the chance to interview. They will still be able to do a background check to screen for convictions that conflict with the position, it just won’t happen until they’ve been given the chance to interview/receive an offer if qualified. Of course, that could potentially waste people’s time if something does end up coming up in the background check, but for the most part it prevents unnecessary discrimination against people who may have convictions unrelated to their ability to do the job.

        2. nonegiven*

          Maybe it should be in the ad. ABC is an Equal Opportunity Employer, however this position requires someone who has no conviction for x or y. (Just ignore any background check that mentions something not relevant.)

          Also, I don’t want to forget to mention the possibility of a Governor’s Pardon. Even felonies can be removed from a person’s record when they have been good citizens and stayed out of trouble after the conviction. Probably varies from state to state, it could involve three reference letters, an application, consideration by the Pardon and Parole Board and the Governor’s signature. It could take more than one try but people roll their eyes because it sounds too hard.

    3. Chaordic One*

      When I worked in HR at Dysfunctional Teapots, Ltd., we hired quite a few people who had had brushes with the law in their backgrounds. We ran criminal background checks on everyone and it not uncommon for things to come up that were not reported on the application form. By the time the criminal background check came back the person had already been hired, onboarded and on the job for at least a few days. If something came up they usually got “a talking to” by the head of HR and were asked to explain, but it rarely ever resulted in someone losing their job.

      The only time I’m aware that anyone ever lost their job was if they had been arrested for drunk driving in the past three years, because our auto insurance company had a strict no tolerance policy for that. There were a handful of people who absolutely had to drive as part of their job duties and they ended up losing their jobs.

      All things considered, it was one of the few things that Dysfunctional Teapots handled well.

  7. Emma*

    My last exam for my postgrad degree is next week. While I won’t be finished with the degree for a while (still have to complete an internship and a dissertation over the summer), I’m feeling this odd sense of sadness which I can’t quite articulate. When I started last September, a year seemed like such a long time, and suddenly it’s almost over – especially the last six months, which just flew by.

    (A lot of it is coming from conflicted feelings. I really love this city where I’ve lived for the last nine months, but at the same time I miss my home city as well (and they’re nowhere near each other so going between the two is no small task). So rather than looking for a way to stay I just…want to re-experience the time already gone by…if that makes any sense?)

    So yeah…even though I’m (so very) relieved exam season is coming to an end, and I want to celebrating with everyone else, I can’t quite shake this sense of melancholy that keeps appearing when I least expect.

    1. JulieBulie*

      Emma, I personally feel very sad at the end of almost everything… the end of a book or movie, the end of a fun visit with a friend, the end of a great TV series, even the end of a really good ice cream. I actually dread those endings.

      The end of high school and again of college were even worse, because not only was I leaving behind a great experience, but I was about to start a new phase of my life. Everything that had become familiar would soon be out of my life, to be replaced with a whole lot of who knows what.

      It doesn’t happen to everyone, but it’s totally normal. Just try to be present in the moment so that you can fully experience these last days.

      Good luck with your last exam!

      1. Natasha*

        Wanted to jump in and say I feel sad at the end of most things too- even my 3 day Memorial Day vacation. This hit home because I’m graduating with a Master’s next week, and so I feel sad that’s ending too. It was 2 years of working full time and going to school full time, so it’s gone by in a blur. I’m facing the end by signing up to volunteer for our alumni chapter, and thinking of all the fun hobbies I’ll finally have time for.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      “We may never pass this way again…” (Seals and Crofts)

      And if we do pass this way again we will not be the same as we are now. We will have grown/changed.

      To me the sense of melancholy, is the passage of time. Time keeps moving. I think we are more aware of it when something short, like your 9 month stint here, comes to an end. It was brief and ironically will have life-long impact.
      I also get a sense of melancholy when I know I will never experience something like X again in my life.
      Time can be kind, though. There are many things that I look back on and still feel the warmth of the moment/time period. Sometimes melancholy is eased in the future because of new experiences that are equally positive and/or warming.

      In an odd twist, I have gone back to places that I thought I would miss those times and found that I was actually very happy to be in current time. So this happens also.

      You might be able to help yourself address that odd feeling by telling yourself, “I will always treasure this time in my life.” Just a little affirmation, a nod toward the melancholy.

      1. JulieBulie*

        I also get a sense of melancholy when I know I will never experience something like X again in my life. […]

        In an odd twist, I have gone back to places that I thought I would miss those times and found that I was actually very happy to be in current time.

        Oh gosh yes, to both of these. Thanks for sharing these thoughts!

  8. Nervous Accountant*

    Ok so initially I wrote this when I was very frustrated but I’ve since talked to my manager & coworker so things are resolved (for now) but I’d still like to post.

    So I do have a cw who doesn’t report to me but my manager often defaults to me to help her so I do it to help HIM out.

    A few incidents over the last couple of months:

    1. I gave her an assignment; she said she didn’t know anything about it and isn’t comfortable with it. I explained to her exactly what to do and to stop freaking out. She passes the assignment to a coworker, and emails our manager that she’s not comfortable doing it. He was OUT FOR A FUNERAL.

    2. Right before our major deadline, she was about to leave for 7 work days; she had a task that had to be done before she left. She waited until 10 minutes before she was about to leave the office to let me know that she has to pass it off to me bc she’s leaving and will not be able to do it and that our manager told her to give it to me. I wasn’t available at that time. She had the WHOLE day to either DO the task or reassign it–and I KNOW for a fact that she had ample time to do it.

    3. Most recently–she asked me for help with something. I spent about an hour of my time helping her with it in between my other tasks. The next morning I get an email from our manager asking me to help her out. She wrote to him that “NA told me to do this but I’m about to leave [for 4 days], what do I do?”

    Mind you–these were very simple tasks with very clear instructions. Short of actually doing the actual task for her, I could not have been more clear or helpful. Each time I tell my manager what the situation is and he says it’s not a problem w what I did or said.

    I am getting frustrated. This along with other things throughout the last few months makes it feel like a total waste of time to even help her. I’m not the only one who helps her, and rightly or wrongly, other coworkers aren’t very fond of her. The major issue is that when we help her, she goes right back to our manager for help who then SENDS IT RIGHT BACK TO ME. I joke that it’s a circle or loop but looking at this pattern it seems like shes just trying to weasel her way out of work.

    I know this is partially my fault too–I didn’t say anything the first two times bc she was seasonal and about to leave. This second and third time, she was out of the office for several days so I felt weird blasting her over email and by teh time she came back I let it go.

    Maybe I need to change my mindset; I’m trying not let my emotions make me short sighted about this.I have my own personal feelings about this that I feel like are holding me back from doing the best I can with her.

    1. Dee-Nice*

      It sounds like this is an ongoing thing, so I’m sorry if I’ve missed past posts about this and am therefore missing context, but– it sounds like you two are peers and your manager is asking you to essentially manage this other person? Trying to get some more clarity here.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Yeah it’s been on going but this is the first tme I’m posting about it here.

        Yes, we’re peers in the sense that we’re both accountants but I have seniority in terms of experience here. My manager sometimes delegates some of these tasks (managing, helping etc) to me because I expressed interest in more leadership (but not team leader/manager level [YET!])

        1. Trout 'Waver*

          Managing someone or their work without the ability to enact consequences is the toughest kind of leadership. Doubly so with a difficult employee. Your manager is not doing you any favors here and might be abdicating responsibility here because he finds her difficult as well.

          1. Nervous Accountant*

            Well, it’s not so much that I’m a leader-it’s nothing official. It’s just that we allll help each other. That’s just the culture in this office. My mgr is really good, we just don’t always agree on things but I try to c his perspective and he has my back majority of the time.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      Talk to your boss about it, and frame everything in the sense of “I’m having difficulty getting XYZ done because I find myself picking up ABC from Jane on a regular basis. How can we work this out?”

      The key is not to present it as “Jane sucks!” but rather as “I need help figuring out how to get my job done/what my role is.” (Because maybe your role IS to help Jane — but then your boss should be taking things off your plate to compensate.)

    3. tigerStripes*

      Whatever else you do, don’t blast her over e-mail. If you can push back, saying that you did x and y to help her, and what other help does she need, then if she wants you to do her work for her, she’s going to look bad.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        So I actually did email her. I tried to be as nice as possible but direct and firm. I pointed out the pattern and that while her intentions may not be to weasel out of work, it looks like that and eventually others will see it as well. she read it and apologized so I think it should stick.

    4. JulieBulie*

      You said you talked it over with your manager and your cw. How did that go?

      Whatever was decided, I am very curious (and a little skeptical) if it will stick.

    5. Master Bean Counter*

      Make her write down instructions and check back in with her often. Once she gets the sense that you aren’t going to let her be a slacker maybe she’ll shape up or quit. It also gives you grounds to burn her up later.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Yeah this is one thing I’ll try to do. I don’t see her as a slacker as much as someone who just needs A LOT of hand holding. I try to put myself in her shoes Bc I was new and inexperienced too but a lot of these things she did I would NEVER have done– so I’m scared of seeming like a hypocrite. I know at some point I need to stop thinking that way.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Sorry!

        here goes–so my manager told me to email her. He knows that I’ve had issues with her and he sympathizes but he reminds me that she has a lot of strengths. I emailed her and CC’d him, and when she came in she read it and apologized for it. I asked her why did she email him and she said because seh wasn’t goign to be able to do it in time. I feel bad but lets’ see what happens

        1. Lily in NYC*

          Oh, I thought you meant you had a big heart-to-heart about her behavior in general!

          1. Nervous Accountant*

            yeah unfortunately this wasn’t a heart to heart. But I’m documenting everything. I know this sounds horrible of me but Maybe there is some bias on my part (of what? I’m honestly not sure). I did do some self reflection and thought “ok if this was someone I otherwise get along well with, how would I approach this w them?” And it would be differently I guess. Maybe I’m overthinking it?

        2. Whats In A Name*

          If you and her are peers and she is continually pushing work back to you or other co-workers I think that is really up to your boss to work on with her, not you? Unless I am missing something? I know resolving problems among peers is a good thing to do, but this isn’t a disagreement – this is you potentially missing a major deadline because she waited until 10 minutes before she left to tell you she wasn’t going to do it.

    8. Artemesia*

      I’d approach the boss with a quick summary; she avoids doing work by taking simple tasks she is assigned and coming to you claiming she has no time and then they get shuffled onto me. She always waits till the last minute. for example She had an entire day to do simple task A which had been clearly described to her but 10 minutes before leaving for vacation threw it back to me to do.

      This is someone who needs to be fired. The OP needs to lay out this as a pattern and ask for intervention by management to insist she do the work she is assigned or be terminated.

      1. WellRed*

        Yeah, at this point a summary overview to highlight the pattern but really, she needs to be fired.

        1. Happy Lurker*

          Yes, she needs to be fired!
          But, Nervous Accountant, before you get wrapped up in her being fired… you need to read and internalize what Master Bean Counter and Ad Agency Chick said. Present yourself in the most professional way possible to your boss.
          All the while screaming “fire her” in your mind with a pleasant expression on your face. Save your RBF for the next time slacker asks for help.

    9. JD*

      This sounds EXACTLY like a situation I had about 2 years ago. I was in such a position that it was possible for me to eventually stop giving this person work and helping this person. Our manager was well aware of the situation as well, and also had no useful feedback except to say “I know, I know it has nothing to do with you”. Ultimately, this person was let go.

      I would suggest documenting it and eventually pushing it back up on your manager, reasoning that you’re not able to get your work done because you’re spending too much time helping her, she doesn’t follow through or request help in a timely manner, etc. The management may very well be building a case to let her go, but they won’t be able to let you know about that. That might explain your manager has been clear with you that it’s not anything to do with you.
      Hang in there. It’s tough when you’re working beside someone like that!

    10. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      You want to change your mindset about that someone who is playing your manager and using you to do it is really a good, hardworking coworker – when at every turn she has you walk her through as much as possible and then when there is nothing left but to actually put the words/numbers on the paper, it’s time for her to leave?
      Management is key.
      I was really flattered when my boss said that she appreciates the way I step up to help people in my group and in other groups and it’s a big part of each annual review. Even more flattering is her support of my rule: I will teach you how to do something exactly twice. Because she values my time and my work. She trusts that I shared all my knowledge and if you are having that much of a problem, you can work on it with her. Oh? You figured it out? Oh? Well, that’s great!

    11. Nervous Accountant*

      Thank you everyone for the replies! I’ll be sure to update in the next few weeks if anything happens.

      I think this is the core of my issues w her–

      A HUGE part of our job is communicating with clients. She’s barely able to communicate with any of us coworkers, and speaking to clients is definitely a no go. We’re a pretty relaxed office, so even if you’re not good friends with anyone, there’s a 100 of us here and you can have a conversation with anyone. She speaks in a whisper and repeats a lot of her Qs- 90 % of which can be solved by either contacting the client or research And I told her as much in my email (obv not that I’m annoyed!)

      Her strengths though are that she does do the work as long as you teach her what to do and there’s no drama with her–I’ve had cw in the past that I’ve written abt here who are def like that. She just needs a lot of handholding.

      I know I’m probably being unfair and that’s why I feel so ugh about this.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        You’re not being unfair. If she still needs this much handholding to get her job done, consider that she just may not be cut out for this particular job.

  9. Merely dysfunctional or totally toxic?*

    I work in a small department (6 of us + our manager) in a small company (less than 200 employees). The company is family owned and the owners are very involved in the day to day things. I have been here almost 2 years now.

    When I first started, my manager was receptive, encouraging, and engaging. In the last 6 months or so, she has become very negative, short, cold, and bordering on angry. To the entire department – we have all noticed it and it is having a serious impact on morale.

    Her management style has taken a hit as well and it is so contradictory and is really taking the wind out of the sails of the department. She gets upset when we ask for guidance and tells us she doesn’t want to micromanage but then gets upset when we do things as we think they should without asking for input. Tells us if we think something should be done a certain way to come and make an argument to her for why we did it that way, then when we do she yells at us that we are just making excuses for not doing it “the right way” (read: the way she would have done it) and to just accept that we made a mistake and to do better next time instead of spewing bullshit excuses (yes, she swears at us sometimes). Basically it feels like she expects us to not ask for her input but still magically produce things in exactly the manner she would have.

    The owners have gotten way more involved in the department lately and seem to be micromanaging her, so it feels like this is her not being able to handle not being in control and taking it out on us. That is pure speculation on our part though.

    All I know is we are all pretty miserable and don’t know how to make things better for us, or even if we can. Is it time to jump ship to another company because this is toxic and can’t be fixed, or is it worth riding out with tips on how to work with a flip-floppy manager?

    Any help y’all can provide on not tearing my hair out and getting frustrated to the point of losing motivation would be helpful.

    1. Anonymous Poster*

      “I’ve noticed over the past few months that you seem more frustrated with my work output, but I can’t identify what I’ve done to fall short. Is something going on you’d like to talk about?”

      I’m trying to figure out a good way to broach the subject that it appears something personal is impacting her professional life. People don’t turn on a dime like this generally, so I suspect something else is going on. You’re also trying to make her aware that you know something’s probably going on and that it’s impacting her work.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Yelling and swearing at employees are big giant toxic flags for me. I know some people manage to live with it, but I certainly couldn’t.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Yup. This sounds like my last manager, and I ended up leaving that division. No ma’am, you will not talk to me the way you talk to your children. Nope.

      2. ToxicWaste*

        This was my last workplace. I don’t get paid enough to deal with this cr*p and the benefits aren’t that great. Moving on….

    3. Kyrielle*

      The fact that she started out good and flipped for _everyone_, and the owners are way more involved – hmmm. I might stick it out a bit longer and see what happens.

      The fact that she flipped for everyone and not just you means this is about her, not you – it could be a health crisis, it could be stress (personal or work), who knows. But it’s not targeted, at least, and that’s a mild positive while dealing with this sort of crap.

      The owners…did they start to get way more involved, as far as you know, _before_ she flipped styles, or after?

      If you’re confident it was before, I’d look to jump ship, because the odds that her reaction are being driven by work stress brought on by what they’re doing (or what she knows about why they’re doing it, or something related) is much higher.

      But if it was, or may have been, after she started to be a less-positive manager…I’d be tempted to either wait and see a bit longer, or even approach one of them (or an appropriate chain-of-command person) about your concerns. Because if they got involved after, they may be scrutinizing her behavior after complaints, and may be working with her on improving, with the intent of her leaving if she can’t improve.

      That is, however, a lot of if’s. It would be totally understandable if you just looked to move on, instead.

      If you do decide to stay (or if you decide to leave and are just trying to survive until you find another job), and assuming you haven’t already attempted this, I’d try to navigate her “don’t ask me but get it right” issues by providing her quick updates of your plans. “Hey, I’m working on the ticket about the form-three teapot spouts that often fall off. I’m planning to resolve it by requesting a switch to adhesive 3C instead of 3A which is currently being used; that avoids having to redesign the spout shape or weight. Please let me know if you would prefer I approach it another way.”

      The last sentence may or may not be helpful – it might set her off, but leaving it off might just send her right into the argument mode – so that’s a know-your-audience and feel-this-out.

    4. someone101*

      It might be time to consider jumping ship. I speak from personal experience. I also worked for a family run business in a small department roughly the same size as yours. Initially it was a great place to work and the manager was lovely then the true colours started to show. Examples include making staff feel guilty for accepting wages ‘when ive had to raid my personal bank account to pay wages and none of you even deserve it’, asking for constructive criticism then shouting at us for daring to suggest his work was anything less than perfect; leaving staff (mostly me) to do most of the work then later taking all credit for it and on more than one occasion telling staff ‘if you don’t f***ing like how i run things feel free to f***ing leave, your not irreplaceable’. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago I informed the boss I wasn’t going to be returning to work (from sick leave- due to the stress of the toxic workplace. My hair fell out, panic attacks, on anti depressants etc) FIVE other members of staff gave notice and 3 have already left. Now he is feeling the pressure of only having 2 remaining members of staff yet still hasn’t learnt his lesson; he believes the problem is with us (we are lazy etc). I feel so much better, it was even interfering with my sleep (what I could get when I wasn’t lying awake worrying about work) sometimes you have to cut your losses.

    5. JulieBulie*

      It sounds as though there’s something weird going on there that has nothing to do with you. If you can somehow find out what’s going on, it will be easier to decide whether the situation is salvageable or not. (Like if this was an easy family to talk to, you could ask if there’s been some kind of disruption behind the scenes. Could be a divorce pending, or a lawsuit, bankruptcy, etc.)

      But if you can’t find out, or if you’re past the point of caring, then you and your coworkers owe it to yourselves to move on. Not all workplaces are like that.

    6. Her Grace*

      I second the notion that something has happened in her life. Nobody makes that dramatic a change without a catalyst. Could have been work-related, could have been personal. As far as you’re concerned, it doesn’t matter.

      Sounds like you’re doing a lot of speculating and not enough proactive action. What if you said, “Manager-person, it looks like you’ve had something happen in your life. I don’t need to know what it is, but were you aware you’re taking it out on us?”

      Her reply (contrition or indignation) should help you decide whether or not to jump ship.

  10. Jules the First*

    So my week started on Tuesday with two offers, for radically different jobs in completely different companies – the only thing in common is that they’re in the same industry. In isolation, I’d have been perfectly happy with either offer, so I ran my pros and cons and picked one on Wednesday – I was over the moon. We signed contracts yesterday and I was super excited, but today I can’t help feeling like I’ve made a giant mistake. Someone please reassure me that it’s just FOMO and paperwork fatigue (I HATE filling in forms for background checks) and that I’d be feeling exactly the same way if I’d made the other choice….

    1. Lindsey*

      It’s almost certainly FOMO – I get that when I pick the “wrong” cheese at the supermarket.

      Congratulations on a fantastic new job!!

    2. LNZ*

      FOMO?

      But yeah, wait to see if that feeling persists. Literally every big move i make has a moment right after i made the decision official where i get slammed with panic and think I’ve made a a huge life ruining mistake. But it always fades and so far everything has been for the better.

    3. Jadelyn*

      I have no idea what FOMO means, but I think it’s entirely natural and very common to start second-guessing yourself as soon as you’ve committed to something big (buying a house, a car, getting married, etc.) – I wouldn’t worry too much about it!

    4. The RO-Cat*

      Just for the fun of it, go to TED website and search for Ruth Chang: How to make hard choices. I hope it will ease your tension a bit.

    5. NoMoreMrFixit*

      I’ve found that your first choice is usually the best one. I had a similar situation several years ago. Wondered if I’d made the right choice until the company that I’d turned down ended up downsizing massively and moving to a different city. Ended up staying in the job for 10 years.

      Good luck with your new position. It’s exciting to move on to a new opportunity.

    6. Falling Diphthong*

      If it were me, I would have this exact feeling after signing on either job. Also with signing a mortgage for a new house, bringing home our new kittens–any big binary decision, I think it’s normal to pull the trigger for solid, well-thought-through reasons and then have a few hours of “Oh no oh no that was probably wrong, things could happen, probably the other path would have been better.”

      1. Purple Hair Chick*

        I was in your situation in April. Two jobs in two different fields so I to make a tough choice. I’m happy where I am but still wonder about my life if I had taken the other job. Go with your gut is all I can say.

  11. Manders*

    Has anyone else been asked to take a Pre-Employment Assessment through a company called Plum? It was an IQ test/personality test combination with sections where you have to choose which negative adjectives most represent you, which was super uncomfortable.

    I’ve been making my peace with the fact that jobs in my field are going to want to give some kind of skills test before hiring, but this one just felt really weird and not related to the kind of work they wanted me to do.

      2. k*

        If you continue the process, at least take this as a big warning and be very observant going forward. It could be a fluke (one person thought it was a good idea, they’re just trying it our, etc) but it could also be a sign that there would be a lot of strange things with this job.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      I worked for a company that did that kind of testing. It should have been a huge red flag. One of many I ignored. This is a sign of a company that’s heavy into gimmicks. If that isn’t your style, opt out now.

    3. Undine*

      Our company gives a similar test, which you have to take BEFORE you can even do a phone interview. (In fact, I think before the hiring manager can see your resume — what?) And then take it AGAIN in front of someone before we can finalize an offer. Every single one of us loathes it, but we are owned by a group that likes it. We’re sure it’s lost us a ton of good candidates. On the other hand, we’re delighted when somebody good is willing to jump through the hoops.

    4. Howdy Do*

      My husband had to take something like that. It certainly seemed dumb but he works in a pretty niche field and there aren’t just tons of other places to work so he didn’t have the luxury to just bail. It didn’t really seem to indicate any great failing in the company (he’s worked there for 5 years now and he’s happy.) In hindsight, knowing the company it seems pretty weird because they otherwise seem very “by the book” and traditional and wouldn’t rely on weirdo personality tests but some higher up must like them.

  12. I got questions!*

    This is probably a question that has already been answered… but… Allison, what is your typical turn around time for questions? I’m not assuming you’re answering mine, but I also don’t want to assume you’re not answering mine, if that makes sense.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It totally varies — sometimes it’s really fast (within a couple of days) and sometimes it’s been known to take months. Feel feel to email me and ask if I have yours in the “to answer” queue; I can let you know!

  13. Anon today*

    The program I run for my nonprofit is being dicked around by our funding source (a government agency) and if I don’t hear something today about how they want to move forward I am going to LOSE MY MIND. I was in the middle of hiring when this whole thing blew up and I’m so frustrated at not being able to give anyone any straight answers about anything. They met on Wednesday to make a decision. They should have something to tell us by now. CALL ME BACK, PEOPLE.

    1. paul*

      HHS/HHSC? I’ve got a buddy going through hell with funding for his program through them right now. He’s actually starting to job hunt because he’s getting so tired of dealing with ’em.

      1. Anon today*

        It’s a local agency rather than federal, but yep, human services realm. Some individual people are great, but as an organization they’re a nightmare to work with. I thought it was going to be better working on a longer-term contract-funded program instead of something where the grant would be up every two years… nope.

        1. paul*

          The program I work for now is funded by our state HHSC, and I can sympathize. Their RFP’s and reporting requirements are part of why I have absolutely no interest in management here. So. Much. Compliance. Crap.

        2. NJ Anon*

          You have my sympathy. Working with our state funders, who are nice but have their hands tied, is is is, I can’t even think of an appropriate word. But, yeah. I hear you!

  14. FDCA In Canada*

    I’m the only person at my job who does my job, and I struggle a lot with balancing how other people think I should do my job vs. how I should actually do it. My manager included–she’s done the jobs of others in our org but never mine, and I think she thinks I’m slacking when in large part my job involves relationship building, tracking projects, and waiting on outside companies to give us the go-ahead (or chasing them down to get their input). Today is one of those days, when my coworkers are dumping a lot of work on my plate without regard for my calendar (shared, Google calendar, which everyone can see) or just straight-up booking me into things without asking me first or even telling me what those bookings or meetings are about. Today is definitely a cry-at-my-desk worn-out day, and to make things better I have to devote all day tomorrow to a general association meeting which will almost guaranteed have nothing to do with anything we do at our office.

    1. Squeeble*

      Ugh, that’s frustrating! Can you be candid with your manager about what’s going on?

      1. FDCA In Canada*

        I have a one-on-one meeting with her next week, so I’m going to spend at least a few hours next week figuring out exactly what I want to talk about and how to phrase it without saying “stop telling me how to do my job and telling me wrong.”

        1. Unit 1*

          Unless I’m reading this wrong, it sounds like your supervisor thinks you’re spending time where you shouldn’t. One way I approached that feedback was to time track for a few days or a week, and then present a breakdown of how I spent my time (i.e. 10 hours communicating with clients, 10 hours a week compiling reports, etc.).

          My supervisor was then able to see where the discrepancy were between her expectations and my reality, and we were able to troubleshoot non-personally (how can we 10 hours down to 5?). During that troubleshooting, it became evident WHY I had to spend that time, which altered my supervisor’s expectations in my favor and allowed me to get the support I was asking for. I was also able to get support I didn’t think I could ask for — “Okay, I see why you have to spend so much time on reporting instead of more time calling clients like I need. But, you could spend more calling clients if you spent less time packing for events; let’s hire an intern to help with that.”

          Sometimes you need to eliminate the possibility of someone being right before they are willing to be wrong and allow you to be the expert. Your supervisor may not think your experience trumps her experience; give her evidence by doing it her way for a while if she’s not willing to budge. If her way doesn’t work (and be prepared to be wrong and learn something new), you now have case studies to support your way.

          I’d also be prepared for the possibility that the company needs something different now than what you were hired for.

    2. Whats In A Name*

      It sounds like short of directly saying “I really need you to check with me before booking me into meetings” there isn’t a ton you can do. But it still sucks! And I’m sorry about tomorrow too – sounds like you could have used the day to decompress!

      1. FDCA In Canada*

        Yeah, I have a one-on-one booked with my manager next week and I want to brainstorm how to bring some of this up without, you know, crying in a meeting!

    3. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      Can you just reply “no” to meetings that aren’t relevant to your job/that conflict? Have you been at this gig long enough to determine if that’s a culturally OK thing to do? At some places, there’s a general idea that you look at peoples’ cals and find a good time, but at others, someone has a meeting at a certain time and if it turns out all the stakeholders can’t come, it’s on that same person to re-schedule, or just have the meeting with fewer people. At my org, people just decline invites that are too much for them, but obvs YMMV.

  15. jo*

    Yay, open thread time! I’m helping my partner with a job search, and I hope y’all can help me help her better. If you know the medical field, specifically medical laboratories, this question is for you.
    Short version: What are your optimal job-hunting strategies when you haven’t worked in your target industry for several years?

    Long version: In my partner’s native Philippines, she first qualified as a medical technologist (i.e. lab tech) and then got her M.D. She decided not to become a doctor and left her internship, then returned to medical technology for a couple of years, since she already had the license for that. Then she moved to the US to go to film school, met and married me, and became a permanent resident. Filmmaking turned into something she does occasionally on the side, but it hasn’t become a career.

    At age 32, she wants to return to medical technology and stick with it. She has the ASCP International license but no state license yet, and that’s required in most places to work as a full-fledged medical technologist. While she goes through the long process of getting a state license, she wants to find some other type of lab role (lab assistant, processing tech, research study assistant, etc) to dust off her skills. It’s been 4.5 years since she did lab work. In the meantime she has done a combination of office jobs, freelance film stuff, and dog walking. Whatever pays the bills!

    What’s a good approach for her when applying for lab jobs? I’ve set up her resume so that the relevant experience, education, and certifications are on the first page, with unrelated (but more recent) work experience on the second page, so that recent years are accounted for (though I left off film school, so there is a gap of several months). I don’t know this industry or how she can present herself as a strong candidate. I’m not sure medical employers give a crap about the “soft skills” she’s gained at unrelated jobs. And I’m not sure what to put in cover letter. For example, should I mention that she’s currently doing online courses to keep her ASCP license current? She’s applied for maybe a dozen positions so far with no response.

    Thanks!

    1. Anxa*

      Maybe night-shift work would be less competitive and give her a chance to get back into it? They may be used to high turnover so sticking it out a year or so there may help.

      Personally, I’ve been trying to get a lab tech job for years with no success, so maybe I’m not the best to ask.

      (Actually considering getting my MLT A.S., but I’ve already spent so much on education I’m loathe to risk it again).

      1. jo*

        Wow, that’s rough! Is there a swarm of competition for these jobs in your area, or in general?

        1. Anxa*

          I hadn’t done any undergrad research and had a pretty middling GPA. It was super competitive when I first got my B.S. I’ve seen a lot more openings, but my gap is pretty wide. I took some classes 4-2 years ago that gave me a lot more specific skills and hands on experience and spent 6 months on some gene editing research, but I wasn’t able to find a job fast enough after graduation, then I stopped looking because my partner got his PhD and I knew we’d be moving. I had no real other ties to that area and didn’t want to be stuck there or job hop.

          In my current area there are lots of jobs about an hour away, but also a lot of schools, some very good ones.

    2. Anonyme*

      I’m an RN and my resume is structured with my license to practice as the very first thing (particularly when changing licensing jurisdictions). When I have have a new license in progress I definitely note that since it is key requirement for any health care job.

      1. jo*

        What if you were applying for related jobs that weren’t at the level of requiring a license, as my partner is doing now? Would your experience and skills be more important? Thanks for the tip; when she starts applying for MLT jobs down the road, the license will appear first thing.

    3. LK*

      The two page thing…. resumes should almost never be two pages in my experience (unless you’re in a very senior role with tonnes of tickets/certificates/accolades)….. I would make it one page, hard hitting (“top load” it – mention her relevant experience in the first 25% of the page)…… if you’re having trouble fitting it all on one page, all that stuff you label as “second page worthy” (i.e. not directly relevant) only needs to be one line (position, company…….[tab leader]…….. timeperiod)………..and you can always shrink the font 1 pt or narrow the margins on the page a bit…. but I have never ever met or heard of anyone who wants to read more than one page for any position that isn’t a very highly sought after senior position.

      Resumes don’t get you jobs, they get you interviews. That’s what makes a good resume. Put everything that you think a medical laboratory would want to see in the first third of the page (ideally first quarter) and don’t flatter yourself that anyone cares enough to read the second page of a resume when they’re filtering through dozens if not hundreds of applicants.

      I would also highly recommend trying to find a recruiter if they exist for this field. I’ve had luck just googling “[city] [field] recruiter”….. it’s nice to have someone who knows the industry on your side :)

      1. jo*

        I appreciate the advice, LK, but for anyone else reading, I want to say my 2 page resumes have always been very well received in my own industry (publishing) and have consistently gotten me interviews. I think this issue is industry-specific to some degree. If someone in my partner’s industry has advice on resume length, that would be great!

        1. LK*

          My thoughts on the 2page being too long were largely due to this being a resume for a low level stopgap position – but yes totally.

          1. Kimberlee, Esq.*

            I actually wanted to say the very same thing… two pages is too long if your second page isn’t relevant to the job at hand. You can address the entire gap in a summary at the top that says something like “after pursuing other educational and professional pursuits, I’ve decided to return to the field I’ve enjoyed most and am best qualified for: medical tech work.” Then, for “current” position I would have a little section on continuing certification classes (or just put the cert at the top and have the continuing ed classes as a bullet underneath). Ultimately, I think having a second page of irrelevant information is doing more harm than having a gap that you can wave away in a sentence.

            Finally, if she’s not currently applying at entry-level, have her do that. If she’s extremely well qualified for those jobs and still not getting bites, its a good indication that there’s something else in the materials that employers aren’t responding to (and if she does start getting bites, one of those could be the right job, or she could take those same materials and apply at something slightly-higher-level and see what happens). Good luck!

    4. Simone R*

      I worked as a lab tech in an academic lab for 2 years and while it sounds like what your talking about is a little different (this was a job that was intended for people with only a bachelors and not intended to last longer than 3 years, no certification needed) so I’m not sure how applicable this is but I did look at lots of resumes for the position. It was always helpful when people listed their specific lab skills at the beginning. Also, if the jobs that she’s applying for aren’t usually taken by people with MDs I would leave that off. We would occasionally get applications from people with doctorates (MD,PhD) and those went straight into the trash because it really wasn’t intended for people with this episode degrees.

      1. jo*

        Thanks, this is helpful! It sounds like you’re saying a “laboratory skills” section at the top would be a positive change. If her MD and internship get scrapped, does she then have to worry about time gaps? That’s 4 mystery years if it comes off completely. Or would the gap only come up as a question in the interview?

        1. Simone R*

          Yes, listing lab skills/techniques at the top is important. Not really basic ones like “pipetting” (I’ve seen that), but any sort of higher level skill, particularly those that are necessary for the position. I don’t think I have enough experience to give advice on the question of the gap, but I think AnonAcademic below is right. I think the concern of having someone with a terminal degree doing lower-level work getting bored or trying to do things their own way would be strong. This depends somewhat on the exact jobs that she’s applying to.

    5. Bloo*

      I’m a Medical Lab Tech. Make sure she is including specific tests and/or instruments she is familiar with on her resume. I got two offers to interview simply because I listed the name of a specific chemistry analyzer that I have worked with. What areas of the lab did she specialize in?

      I had a large gap in my resume too and my employer did not really care. Furthermore, a lot of my peers are immigrants, including many Filipinos, so international degrees and certifications are common.

      Reference labs hire more frequently and more entry level techs than hospitals. Applying for processor or lab assistant jobs is a good route. When she is fully liscened, she may be able to simply move into a tech role at her lab. Phlebotomy is also an option if she knows how to draw blood. Don’t overlook offbeat options like veterinary labs, contract work, etc.

      For the cover letter, it never hurts to mention you have a flexible schedule. If you’re willing to work nights and weekends, you’re going to get more offers.

    6. AnonAcademic*

      I would look into research scientist roles as well as research assistant – in our lab we commonly hire MA or greater level people as research scientists and BA level people as RAs. For someone with an international medical degree I think the concern would be that they are further along in their training and wouldn’t benefit enough from the RA experience to be satisfied with the position (RAs are generally less autonomous than RS jobs especially in larger labs). That said I currently supervise a resident physician who is doing an MA in our lab’s topic who we were glad to have join us as an intern, because they bring technical skills that can help several of our projects move forward.

      I would advocate an approach that is unusual in other industries which is to reach out directly to research labs or academic departments about open positions, with a general cover letter and CV attached. I see those kinds of posts on my university list servs all the time, although I know it’s a practice that’s really Not Done in industry.

    7. Petra*

      This isn’t specific to medical labs, but a lot of labs at large research universities will take volunteers.
      I ended up in a different industry, but I volunteered in a lab for several months after I graduated in 2010. Towards the end of my tenure there, my PI was always forwarding me job descriptions from random other labs with openings trying to get me to apply. She was actually really matchmaker-y about getting her volunteers employed, and I feel pretty confident I could have gotten some job somewhere through her recommendation. Everyone I knew of that was actually paid got their job by starting out as a volunteer, intern, or Master’s student somewhere in the school. It was very difficult to get a job there without first being a known quantity.

    8. Like A Moss*

      I am a former research scientist that runs a biotechnology training and internship program in the San Francisco Bay Area. Although it may have fallen out of favor in other fields/industries, a skills-based resume is crucial.
      You should have a skills section up front and center; then list education and training, then recent job history (assuming non-lab jobs). It is common to see folks coming into Biotech/laboratory positions from other industries, and the important thing is to highlight the transferable skills from other jobs (documentation, data management, record keeping, teamwork and collaboration on projects). Also, 2 page resumes are very common here.

  16. MegaMoose, Esq.*

    For the first time in over a year and a half, I haven’t been asked to do quality control work on my new project. I’m working with a new project lead (the one I’ve worked primarily with for most of the last year and a half has left, although I’ve done QC for other leads as well) and I want to talk to her about it, but I don’t want to make it about my hurt feelings. Any suggestions?

    1. Sadsack*

      Can you just ask her about the new process and explain that you want to understand the reason for the new process without bringing your feelings up?

      1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

        It’s not that there’s a new process, just that I’m not on the new team. Our work is by project, so teams are constantly forming and reforming. Technically it’s not like I’ve been demoted since there aren’t any formal roles, but practically it feels like it.

        1. StrikingFalcon*

          Maybe “I noticed I wasn’t on the QC team for this project. I know that there are several factors that go into these decisions, but I just wanted to check in with you in case there were any concerns with my previous work.”

          1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

            Thanks! This was very close to what I’d been thinking about saying, and it turns out that it went way better than expecting and I was stressing out about nothing. Typical!

  17. Fortitude Jones*

    So inspired by Alison’s recent sponsored post about thredUP, I decided to check them out since I’m still on the hunt for quality work pants that won’t cost an arm and a leg and that actually fit. Well, I didn’t wind up finding any (*sadface*), but I did end up finding some great shirts for work and even some purses.

    First, I got 8 shirts from Covington, Banana Republic (that one’s silk), Apt. 9, Alfani, Calvin Klein, Ann Taylor LOFT, Coldwater Creek, and I.N. Studio for $136.92 after the Memorial Day weekend 40% discount was applied, and I saved $294.08! I only picked shirts that were labeled as excellent condition and appears new, and the Alfani shirt even still had tags on it.

    Then, because I remembered I needed a new pink purse to replace one I’ve been carrying for six years that’s starting to finally fray on the handles, I went back to the app to look for purses. Well, I ended up getting two pink satchels, one by Kate Spade for $108.79 (after applying a 15% discount code – it retails for $328, thereby saving me $219.21) and a no name brand for $12.99, and then a basic structured black satchel also by Kate Spade. I’d been looking for a black bag large enough to carry my apartment in, and from the photos of it on the mannequin arm, this will definitely meet the requirement. Best of all, because there is some (very minor) fading of the leather, I got the bag for $80.99 after applying the 15% discount! The bag retails for $378.00!

    Finally, I lost my mind completely and went back on the app today (I may have to block this soon) and ordered a brown printed Rioni shoulder bag that was heavily marked down to $73.99 due to some (very minor) staining on the lower right corner on the back of the bag – they claimed the bag retails for $357.00. (I looked on the designer’s site though, and the bag actually retails for $185.00, so I’ve emailed them about this to see if they’ll apply the discounts to the actual retail price and credit me the difference.) All told, I spent $416.58, but saved $1,023.11!!! And what’s crazy is, the $416.58 is around what a brand new leather bag would cost, and I just got four of them, and eight tops for work, for the same price.

    Should all go well and my items come in good condition, this may become my new shopping Mecca for work attire. Thanks all for constantly talking this up and Alison for doing that sponsored post. :)

    1. motherofdragons*

      Some of my favorite work dresses have come from thredUP! I always recommend it enthusiastically to friends and coworkers.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        I usually get my dresses from TJMaxx (got three coming today), so I’ll have to check out thredUP’s dress selection then next time I’m ready to shop.

        1. motherofdragons*

          I’m wary of buying pants and sometimes blouses online, because I’m not great at estimating how something will look on me. But dresses are usually a safe bet as long as they’re in my size and of stretchy material. thredUP has loads for all different occasions, especially office-safe lengths and necklines :) But I have definitely also scored there for going-out dresses!

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            Yup – dresses are the safest for me to buy online as well. Now you’re making me want to go back and buy some dresses! LOL.

        2. Snazzy Hat*

          Is it weird that I had no idea TJMaxx had an online store? I simply assumed the website would have redirected to TJX as a company and been more informational and less of a place for monetary transactions. Still looking for a reasonably-priced petites shop, and by reasonably priced I mean I strive to pay less than $25 for a pair of pants, so Talbots is out the window. I have shorter legs & average arms; regular length pants go past my arches down to my toes.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            Nope, not weird – that’s exactly what their site was like (and Marshalls is still like this I believe). I have no idea when they started selling through it, but I saw someone mention it on another forum I read, and I decided to give it a shot. Sadly, the dresses I got from them didn’t quite work, so I probably won’t do the online shipping thing with them again since they don’t do exchanges and the return process is cumbersome.

    2. Professor Marvel*

      I like thredUp! Both as a buyer and seller. I’m trying to have a one in and one out strategy. Having the bag in the closet is helpful. I bought an Ellen Tracy top, NWT, at a steal of $13 (original price was over $100). I’ve worn it to work a few times so I’m already ahead of the ROI.

      It did make me feel good that my clothes were described as “You won’t believe this isn’t brand new” on the site.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        I liked that description too. And I try to do the one in and one out thing, too, but I got a little carried away there last weekend (e.g. I only needed one purse to replace one that’s fraying, and now I have four! Yikes!). To make up for it, I’m donating some of my bags to thredUP and throwing out the frayed one. As for the tops, I realized I didn’t have many for the spring/summer, so I actually did need those.

        1. Snargulfuss*

          One in one out is helpful to keep the reins on the closet, but when you send them clothes it truly is donating. I sent them two bags full of clothes and shoes – some *this close* to brand new – and I still didn’t exceed the $10 fee they take out for processing. Someone told me that donating clothes to ThredUp is a way to clean out your closet, not a way to make money, and I agree. I love buying from them though!

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            Yup, I’m trying to keep my expectations in check and realize I may not get anything back. If not, at least I’ll have the closet space for my new stuff, so I won’t worry about it too much.

    3. JanetM*

      I find myself somewhat disinclined to use a site that requires my email address just to browse it. But I could be wrong.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        I never understand this complaint – you can always create a dummy email address precisely for browsing online sites that require password protections. I’ve been signed up with them for a while (just didn’t purchase until last weekend), and I haven’t been spammed by them at all. And now that I’ve downloaded the app and chose what kind of notifications I want, I get even less than the few emails I was getting from them.

        1. LNZ*

          but thats a lot of effort to go through to even just look at what they have to offer. it’s a turn off

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            It takes five minutes to set up a free email account – I don’t know, I just don’t see the issue, but mileages vary.

            1. OhBehave*

              This kind of thing doesn’t bug me either. If I don’t want email from them, I unsubscribe. To each their own though!

          2. PatPat*

            I just give a fake email address when I just want to look. The one I usually is is “noneyabusiness@” just to make my point. I’ve never been denied entry.

    4. Fortitude Jones*

      Ugh – I’ve already hit a snag with this process. thredUP’s customer service just responded to an email I sent them yesterday afternoon asking why PayPal notified me they refunded me $4.76. Well apparently one of my cute new shirts had a stain they didn’t see until the packaging team boxed it up, so they applied an additional 25% off to the shirt (which I only paid $19.99 on anyway with shipping included). I’m bummed because I really liked the fact that the initial listing stated it was in like new condition – I specifically weeded out all of the picks that said there was minor staining/fading. Depending on where the stain is and the size, I may have to return this, and I loved the color (burnt orange)*cries*. Hopefully, the stain isn’t too bad and is in an inconspicuous spot, hence why they didn’t catch it until it shipped Wednesday morning, so that I can just throw one of my blazers on over it.

      1. OhBehave*

        Do they accept returns after you’ve washed the item? If yes, you may want to try and remove the stain yourself and see what happens. Just take care not to damage it more.

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          I got a response from the customer service team this afternoon that says they do, so if the stain won’t budge or is too conspicuous, I’ll send it back and either hope they refund me the cash (because I never would have purchased the shirt, no matter how great the color, if I’d known about the stain) or at least give me a store credit so I can replace it with something else. I saw a couple more 3/4 sleeve blouses in other bold, pretty colors that I’d love to have, so if they end up still being on the site when I return the one I just bought, I’d get one of them.

    5. nep*

      Love Thredup​. Most of what I’ve gotten there is new with tags, for amazing prices. Other things, while not brand new, excellent quality. I like everything about how the company operates.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        I like their customer service response time. I received a response to the email I sent them this morning about the incorrect retail price for the Rioni bag I bought, and the rep said she’d take it back to the team to discuss and will get back to me. I reiterated that it would be great if they could apply the discounts they used to the actual retail price so I can be refunded the difference between what I ended up paying and what I should have paid – we’ll see what they say.

  18. Sara*

    I had a weird interview experience last Thursday that I wanted to share.

    I’m 30 and have been working steadily since I graduated college in 08. The interviewer started by asking me where I went to high school and what clubs I was in when I attended. She asked me a couple more questions about high school and then moved on. One question about college (study abroad related, where she confused a stint teaching overseas with my study abroad program) and then a steady walk through line by line of my work history, then no more questions about myself.

    I’ve NEVER been asked about high school in an interview before. Perhaps, maybe, at my first out of college one. Just weird. Haven’t heard back, so I’m just writing it off as a weird experience.

    1. Ash (the other one)*

      What level position was this for? Was it entry level? Were there degree requirements? That seems so odd…

      1. Sara*

        Executive Assistant for the CEO, so not entry level. It was a for a very large company in downtown Chicago, very odd.

        1. Happy Lurker*

          They are just checking your background and digging deep. EA for a CEO is a pretty prestigious position in some companies. You are going to have to be trustworthy, ethical, and know how to keep CEO’s confidence.

          1. Clever Name*

            But high school? For me, high school was 20 years ago, and I actually can’t remember all that clearly what clubs I was in. Does it really mean a whole lot to an employer that I was in National Honor Society and I think French Club??

          2. Sara*

            I would hope they wouldn’t hold me to the hobbies of 16 year old me. But whatever works for them I guess!

    2. Mona Lisa*

      How bizarre! I don’t think I’ve been asked about high school either since undergrad. The only way I could potentially see it as relevant is if you were applying for a job at a high school, and they wanted to know what your own experiences were and if there was anything you’d want to replicate or do differently.

    3. Catalyst*

      The only time I have been asked this is when I have interviewed in a small community and it’s more a “who do I know who knows you” question. The end result is them contacting someone you went to highschool with who they know to ask about you. (I think this is wildly wrong by the way, because highschool was 15 years ago for me and I am a totally different person….. but small town mentality!).

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        That is what I’m thinking. It’s the only explanation I could come up with- and still odd.

    4. Qmatilda*

      Were you interviewing in one of the high school obsessed cities like, St. Louis, New Orleans, etc? Because they will nearly always ask about your high school.

      1. Sara*

        Not the interviewer herself, but the guy I was going to be working for is from St. Louis! Weird.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Thanks for the warning. I don’t really want to answer that question (I think it’s stupid), but now I know if I’m interviewing over there to watch out for it.

      3. Clever Name*

        That’s so funny. My dad grew up in St. Louis. Maplewood-Richmond Heights High School represent! ;)

    6. Anxa*

      FWIW, I didn’t realize I didn’t have my high school diploma because I’ve only ever needed it when I was applying for college. It seemed more like a momento than a document.

      I just had to beg my high school to expedite my transcripts because I interviewed for a job where the only requirement was a high school diploma and clean driving record.

      College transcripts and diploma didn’t’ matter.

      1. Zathras*

        Wow, maybe it’s just their hiring process and the rest of the job is great, but a workplace so inflexible they won’t accept a college diploma in lieu of a high school diploma would be a red flag for me.

        1. Anxa*

          It’s a state job with literally no other qualifications, so I can kind of understand it. But really, I was totally blindsided. The irony is I had just spend 2 hours a few weeks ago reformatting a bunch of digital copies of my diploma and transcripts and making it really easy to have to upload for jobs. I was so proud of myself!

      2. Nye*

        I’ve always worried a little about running into a weirdly rigid requirement like this, since I don’t have a HS diploma or a GED. (I do have a PhD, which has sufficed so far.)

          1. Nye*

            More or less homeschooled from grade 4, and lucky enough to have started college at a time when schools were beginning to be more open to the idea. I also had about 2 years of community college courses (grades 10-11ish) and great SAT scores, so I wasn’t asking them to take my word for it that I could do OK in school. So my graduation record is: Elementary school, BS, MSc, PhD. Luckily it’s all worked out pretty well!

    7. LCL*

      I have read that this is one way to effectively screen people by race, if the persons involved live in a heavily segregated area. (Knowledge doesn’t mean that I approve.)

    8. MsMaryMary*

      I’ve had similar interview questions at least twice. The first interviewer seemed like he was just a completist. Not only did he want to know about high school (and a little on elementary school too, if I recall), but he wanted to talk through every single job I’d ever had.

      The second was specifically interested in extracirriculars in high school and college. I think he was trying to figure out how I’d do in a fast paced/busy environment, but it was a strange way to get that information.

      1. Clever Name*

        I feel like that’s a weird way to find out your work style, though. While I don’t think asking “Do you prefer fast-paced environments” isn’t the best question to ask, I think there are other ways to find out, like asking if you like to be busy or if you get bored easily or if you’ve had jobs in the past where you didn’t have enough to do, etc.

    9. Michele*

      Years ago, I was interviewing for a position a couple steps above entry-level Ph.D. They asked not only about high school, but about every single job I had ever held, going back to babysitting in junior high. At the time, I thought it was bizzare, but later I realized that they were trying to get a feel for my work ethic.

    10. k*

      I’m about the same age as you and I’d be really surprised to hear that question. I’d actually have a hard time answering. Between not thinking about high school much, and not being prepared for the question, I’d have to think deep to speak about my high school activities. Unless the person went to the same school, or has kids there now, I’d find it very weird.

    11. AliceBD*

      I was asked about high school in a recent interview but that is because it was a tiny school and the interviewer’s niece was a few years above me and his SIL worked at the school; he had seen the area I was from (I’m moving back to my home state so it is in my cover letter) and it came up during lunch so it felt natural.

      The odd one was a different company where they asked me a bunch about my college courses. I have an English degree and do marketing; my school did not have communications or PR or marketing as major or any classes about it. No other company has cared about my college classes since I graduated six years ago and have successes while actually working I can point to. It was very odd.

  19. EA*

    Does anyone have any thoughts on the office manager title?

    I am an EA and looking to either move into an operations role or a administrative manager role. I came across an office manager role that included managing 4 people, as well as being responsible for the budget and special projects. It doesn’t seem like this person is anyone’s assistant. This seems to be what I am looking for. The title is really my only hesitation. I’ve applied and have an interview. When I see office manager I usually see it used to mean receptionist or the only admin for the office. I usually search for like admin manager/supervisor or operations manager/coordinator. Has anyone seen office manager used in this way? I work in a field with rigid title requirements/bureaucracy, so I couldn’t ask to change it upfront.

    1. StrikingFalcon*

      I’ve seen it used that way. There was actually a letter to AAM about an officer manager who managed several people and was wondering how to write it in their resume so people would stop calling them for secretary jobs.

    2. H.C.*

      Given the title ambiguity, I would go to the role’s description. From how your query described it – this seems like an administrative manager role overseeing several other admins, but if you are interested you can contact them for further clarification (or ask about it during the interview.)

    3. zora*

      Yes, I’ve seen it used this way. I feel like it was more common about 15 years ago to be used this way, and more recently people use those titles you mentioned.

      But I have worked in companies where the Office Manager supervised all Admins for the company, including the receptionist, but did not do Assistant or reception duties themselves. They would always have other people to assign for coverage for those positions if needed.

    4. Can't Sit Still*

      Some places don’t or can’t keep their position titles up-to-date, and that was a typical job description for an office manager 15 – 20 years ago. They are probably quite frustrated with the applicants they are getting because of the job title, so you should definitely go for it.

    5. k*

      I’ve seen that title used a lot of ways. We have an “office manager” who does all of our HR stuff, manages the front desk staff, and probably more that I don’t even know. Definitely not a reception or admin position.

      With that title, I would really base my opinion off the job description and how much experience and education they’re requesting.

    6. Rogue*

      I’ve seen office manager used this way. In fact, my last supervisor was the “regional office manager,” meaning she was the head office manager, at a specific division’s office, and over saw all the field office managers for that area.

  20. AnnaleighUK*

    Creepy ex-colleague update: blocking on ALL social media channels has worked! Obviously he can’t see my posts at all now, which is great, and I feel much happier now knowing he can’t see what I’m up to. Another ex-colleague who I run with did mention that Creepy Fergus had asked her if I’d got a new car (which I have) and that seemed a little odd, unless he saw me loading shopping into it at Tesco or something. Can’t read too much into that because it’s the biggest supermarket around here and everyone and their mother shops there so it’s inevitable you’ll run into someone you know or see them across the car park. Plus Creepy is a massive car nerd so it’s the kind of thing he notices.

    We ran into him at a large local event, actually, and he was with his wife and kids and I have to say the entire family reads as ‘creepy’. I guess some people just vibe that way. It was just a ‘hello, are you enjoying the show?’ interaction and it was friendly enough but yeah, Mrs Creepy and Child Creepys are just as peculiar.

    There’s an industry conference in August that he will be at and you can bet that I will be avoiding him, and it will be interesting to see how he acts around me.

    Oh and, off topic, get one of those doorbells that connects to your phone and allows you to see who’s at the door even if you’re out. I’m convinced they’re the best invention ever.

    1. SophieChotek*

      Yes that sounds creepy!

      I know that doorbell or cams for when you are not at home both sounds neat!

      (Do you think Creepy Fergus will act differently around you at a conference vs. elsewhere?)

    2. Myrin*

      I’m so sorry because this is such a serious topic but I just sat here at my desk laughing for two minutes straight because “Child Creepys” is absolutely hilarious. My goodness.

      Apart from that, though, I’m really glad that blocking him everywhere worked. I know that I read your story when you first shared it yet I only remember it vaguely but still, boo to creeping at people and making them uncofmortable!

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        Yeah the Child Creepys were really, really weird little kids. My housemate said so too so it wasn’t just me! Glad I made you laugh.

        In all seriousness, I think now that he can’t follow me online and my friends from my old job know he’s been creeping, he will leave me alone. He doesn’t strike me as the overly persistent type. I’m still a bit worried about the conference but I don’t think we will see each other that much. I mentioned before we work in building control as building inspectors and my new role is all about inspecting heritage and listed buildings whereas his is more new builds and modifications. Still, I will be keeping an eye on him at conference time!

    4. a Gen X manager*

      You blocked Creepy specifically? Because it just takes a fake profile to work around that…

      1. a Gen X manager*

        or a friend’s facebook account or things that you allow “friends of friends” to see…

        1. AnnaleighUK*

          My profiles on Twitter and Instagram are now set to private so only people who follow me can see them and I have a grand total of six followers who I all know personally and Creepy isn’t one of them. As for Facebook, the way I understand it, if I’ve blocked him then he can’t even see my posts if a mutual friend liked them. My housemate said she changed all my settings so I’m more private than Fort Knox (she’s way more tech savvy than me) so I think we’re okay for now. She did something to my Linkedin too so it’s not so visible.

          As for the car thing, like I said, the entire town shops at the same supermarket pretty much, so he probably did see me and my new car there, and it is a noticeable change in vehicle too (think upgrade from a hatchback to an SUV) so I’m not going to fret myself into a state over something that’s got everyone I know going ‘omg Ana your car!’ including non creepy people. I’m not unaware and I am keeping an eye on things but I reckon now he can’t creep at me online he will give up.

          Also he’s not a runner or a cyclist or a swimmer so he can’t follow me when I’m out and about as my training routes are mostly off-road and I know he doesn’t go to my gym. I’ll let you lot know how the conference goes in August and also if anything else happens. For now, I think it’s okay and he’s backed off. I feel happier, and that’s what matters.

  21. thunderbird*

    We have recently had a lot of turnover in my division, and while the culture and environment are pretty good on the whole, the biggest complaint is the lack of flexibility and work from home days. Our boss has one big hang up, and it’s a butts in seats thing. Which is really his abdication to manage if there are issues. He recently sent an email to acknowledge all of the change and asked “our management team takes workplace culture seriously and if staff have any input on how to make it an even more attractive place to work our doors are open”.

    Except we have provided this feedback time and time again, and it was made clear in exit interviews. I am not sure if they are just expecting another magical suggestion, of it is all just lip service. But I think at this point it is very clear and the outright refusal to consider more flex work. In some ways it has been entertaining to watch all of this go down.

    1. Fortitude Jones*

      It sounds like lip service to me. My division does the same thing, and they’re shocked, SHOCKED, when people turn in their notice. One of our new people who just started a couple months ago just put in his last week – he’s the seventh person to leave the company in the last six months or so and the eighth person to leave the division (one guy went to be an AVP in another division of our company with less politics). The newest guy to leave doesn’t even have a job lined up – he’s just done.

      Meanwhile, my own job search seems to have stalled, so I’m sad and kind of jealous of these people who get to escape. Hence, my excessive shopping recently – retail therapy is so soothing to my soul.

    2. Queen of the File*

      Ugh. We undertook a big employee satisfaction survey awhile ago and it was one of the most disheartening things in my whole career to watch my manager go through the list of suggestions for more meaningful recognition and reward–many of which were very simple and cost 0 dollars–and just cross them out, one after the other, “no… no, no… no”. I guess what they actually wanted was for employees to magically start liking their jobs more without anything having to change.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        “I guess what they actually wanted was for employees to magically start liking their jobs more without anything having to change.”

        Nailed it, sadly.

    3. MsMaryMary*

      Ha. Our CEO has been having breakout sessions with employees to discuss how we could improve the company. Everything that was said in my meeting is feedback that has been given repeatedly, in multiple formats, by multiple people (better communicaton, more consistent processes, hold people accountable, esp those in senior/leadership roles…). I think he’s looking for a magical suggestion. Or an easy button.

    4. S-Mart*

      It’s unclear to me from just what you’ve written here whether there are a list of feedback items you’ve given your boss, or just the flexibility/work from home options. If there’s a larger list and he’s still asking for more, it sounds like it’s just lip service.

      But if the only things that have been mentioned ‘time and time again’ are the flexibility/work from home, he could legitimately be interested in hearing more/other ideas even while your collective #1 request is off the table for whatever reason.

      1. thunderbird*

        There are other things like transparency and better understanding of our direction and how our work fits into the bigger picture. I would say there are 3 recurring major themes that keep coming up and aren’t being addressed. But the issue driving people away and why so many people have left in the last 3 months is the work/life balance. We are also in a city that involves major commuting for a lot of people, so it’s a big issue and work from home options are very attractive.

    5. DietCokeHead*

      Oh, the butts in seat thing. That’s an issue here too. We have a new manager and he is very much an advocate for standing up and going over to someone’s desk to have a conversation. He doesn’t understand why so much is done via email. It is hard to say well, no one wants to get up because if the a manager is in a bad mood and sees someone away from their desk, the possibility exists for a very public reprimand.

  22. Lillian Styx*

    I have an interview for an assistant to a federal judge! Anyone have experience working for judges? Anything special I should prepare for the interview? It’s not a clerk position and I’m not a lawyer. Thanks!

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      I’ve worked as a law clerk for a couple of different judges (and an extern in federal court) and am acquainted with several others. In my experience most judges really dislike having to think or worry about administrative stuff (including hiring), so anything you can do to show how you will be making their life easier would be a big plus. Assuming this position would be like the chambers I’ve worked in, the assistant is the one who keeps everything running smoothly and provides continuity, since clerks often turn over frequently. You’ll want to be ready for whatever the judge needs: personal assistant-type stuff, hiring law clerks, planning parties, proof-reading, budget stuff, who knows. The judicial assistants I’ve worked with have been deeply competent, flexible, and low-drama. Plus, chambers are small, so of course getting along with the judge on a personal level is huge. Good luck!

    2. LK*

      Seconding “they don’t give a *** about admin” – if you can show that not only will you do all the things, but you also won’t bother them with minutiae details about it. Never update them on admin statuses unless they specifically ask for it directly, for example, because they really don’t care when the accounts got sent out so long as they did get sent out and they don’t have the brain space (or related GAF space for that matter) to track these independently. They need someone they can trust to be entirely self sufficient.

      If you’ve worked with lawyers…. all judges had to be lawyers first. Lawyers are a special type of human…. taught to be amazing in specific ways to the extreme detriment of many skills. I know nationally recognized lawyers who cannot operate basic photocopiers. You need to be someone they can trust to do ALL THE THINGS except lawyering (judge-ing) because it’s not that they haven’t had to do admin things in awhile, it’s that they’ve never ever had to do them and legitimately don’t know how in a lot of cases.

      Source: legal assistant

      1. Lillian Styx*

        Oh man, you put it so much more nicely than I ever have (re: lawyers and detriment of skills). I started life as a paralegal so hopefully that puts me in a good position.

        Quality comment, thank you so much!

        1. LK*

          <3 no problem!

          I love working in law but it's also made me bizarrely aware of the abilities of lawyers. Amazing at high level stuff but literally not capable of stuff temps learn in their first 2 hours. It's fascinating.

  23. Anon for this*

    I’m just going to rant for a second… I’m a researcher and I completed my PhD 5 years ago, for context. I’m pretty successful — I run a department at a major research institute, have generated millions in research funding, and generally think I’m doing pretty well for someone still considered “early career” in the research world.

    I went to a conference this week where I saw my PhD advisor. He was really aloof and seemed super critical of me and my work and almost like he feels I don’t deserve the success I’ve received. I have imposter syndrome anyway, but I feel really low right now. He was generally supportive during my graduate tenure, so I’m not sure what’s up.

    Is it worth me reaching out to him or should I let the past be the past?

    2. Lora*

      Huh. I don’t know. I feel like I should know, but I really don’t. Academics are weird. Whenever I’ve run into my old advisers or professors at conferences and such, they were pretty chill and “oh hey how’s it going, good for you, (university) is still the same, getting ready to retire soon blah blah well see ya later” and that’s it. More often I run into people I went to grad school with who are grumpy that I’ve had more financial / professional success than them, they are in their 14th year of postdoc’ing and I have an industry job sort of thing. There was one lady on my committee who was super snotty to me once, and I just kinda let it roll off and decided it wasn’t my problem: she was particularly snippy that her own research efforts on a particular subject didn’t go anywhere and mine landed me in a pretty good job and continued to be successful through my career.

      Mostly I ignore this sort of thing. Maybe they are having a bad day, they didn’t get the grant they were counting on, their star grad student quit, they had bad reviewer luck on their latest C / N / S manuscript submission, they just got out of a particularly contentious faculty meeting, whatever.

    3. PB*

      I’m sorry that happened. I would try not to let it get to you. It’s possible that he was upset about something unrelated, and unfortunately it came out when you were talking. Or he could be jealous of the success you’ve had early in your career. (I’ve encountered this, too. A coworker at my old job said that I “hadn’t earned” my office furniture, whatever the heck that means. I was in my sixth year post-degree at the time.)

      Bottom line: I don’t think this is on you at all. You’ve enjoyed good success early in your career, which means you’re good at what you do, and deserving of your success.

    4. Triangle Pose*

      I wouldn’t reach out to him for just this. What would you hope to get out of that conversation? I would chalk this up as useful information you now have to add to your overall impression of him.

    5. Hope*

      He should be thrilled you’re doing so awesomely–often PhD advisees’ successes are seen as a reflection upon their PhD advisor, at least in their early years, so I don’t know what’s wrong with this guy. All I can come up with is jealousy, which is just stupidity on his part. Or maybe he just cares way more about something other than the research you’re doing? He could even have just been super distracted with his own stuff. At any rate, this is definitely his problem, not yours. It’s probably hard to do, given that at one point his opinion likely had an outsize effect on your work/education, but when you start feeling bad about how he was at the conference, remind yourself that his opinion isn’t as important anymore because you’ve moved on to bigger and better things.

      I’d leave it alone and keep on keeping on.

    6. fposte*

      I doubt that this is really about you. I also wouldn’t reach out to him–I don’t see any likely advantage in hashing out a weird conference exchange with somebody you don’t usually see and aren’t going to be working with in the foreseeable future.

    7. AnonAcademic*

      I’m a postdoc and one thing I’ve learned is that advisors can have widely varying reactions about their trainees achieving independence. My PhD advisor was kind of like the parent bird shoving the babies out of the nest to teach them to fly, whereas my postdoc advisor is more of a sad empty nester who feels a bit abandoned when people leave the lab. Or in one case, he’s now competing for grants with a former trainee whose work he’s seen to be uneven in quality and I think that bothers him also.

    8. Sam Foster*

      Leave it alone. You are giving this person power and control over your life. You are fine, you are successful, you need to let this go.

    9. Optimistic Prime*

      Forget him (and other words that begin with F).

      I am also a researcher. I completed my PhD nearly 3 years ago, and I currently work in industry at a major corporation doing a job I love. My role is as a researcher, and I use most of the skills I learned in my PhD program. Still, I have found that it’s not enough for many of the academics who were my professors and advisors in graduate school. Several of them are disappointed or surprised that I didn’t grind it out in academia, and I can tell that at least one or two consider me as having “sold out” (because I have a job that I like that pays me well and allows me to live where I please).

      It’s not worth it. You are probably never going to convince them that your work is just as good as academic work or that you are worthy of the position you got. Why bother? Personally, I’d let it be.

    10. Belle di Vedremo*

      Sometimes moving from student to peer means that you’ve moved from someone to train and brag about to a colleague now subject to the same scrutiny of any other new colleague. Humans are often bad about reframing relationships from underling to peer (or superior), on both parts. Students can have a hard time moving up to peers, and profs a hard time letting students grow up to peers.

      I recommend giving it some time and then reaching out as if things are normal between you. If this turns out to be a pattern you’ll have some time to think about how to address/deal with it. Giving people I’ve had good relationships with the benefit of the doubt has made it easier to hope that they’ll do the same with me.

  24. Anon for this*

    I wrote in last week asking for help with structuring, planning, and managing my time for my PhD work. I’m happy to report that some of your suggestions have helped!

    Specifically, I’m tracking my hours on paper (and aiming for ~5 a day, although most days I’ve come in closer to 4) and stopping to write down my thoughts and make short-term plans whenever I feel aimless or stuck. While I’m sure that my work habits still have a lot of room for improvement, I feel like I’m moving in the right direction.

    1. SophieChotek*

      I think that sounds like a good plan. writing is a lot about habit (so many authors say) and just plugging along is sometimes all one can do!

  25. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

    Third time’s the charm!

    Did we ever get an update for this one?

    https://www.askamanager.org/2017/04/open-thread-april-28-29-2017.html#comment-1465711

    This is the UK based one with a 3-person team. One of them, Sansa, was a constant no-show due to health issues. Tyrion was the manager with a plan “at some point”. The OP was going to leave, and his other coworker (the one that showed up) was putting in notice as well. So, the department would be down to Sansa and the manager.
    Please update if you can! I’m super-curious what happened next!

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Ooh, wow, I didn’t see this at first, but I would certainly love an update.

  26. Burnt Out?*

    I’m exhausted at my job. I’ve spent the majority of the last year working between 60 and 80 hour weeks. I’m tired, I know they appreciate me, they gave me a 10% raise after 8 months. But I’m increasingly unsure if it’s worth it. I keep telling my boss that I don’t have enough resources to accomplish all that I need to. Eventually more and more things are going to fall through the cracks. I’m young, running my department, and feeling totally out of my depth. When I asked about budgets I was told to “be reasonable.” During an audit report to the Board, I was informing them that the major finding was that our program needed more human resources. Boss undercut that finding, assuring them that this isn’t urgent, and we need to do more comparative analytics with other programs–despite the fact that we’ve already done those things. I feel bad about looking for other jobs when I’ve been there only a year. My program is in drastically better shape than it was when I came on board. But I can’t keep doing this. I finally told boss that this isn’t sustainable for me, and if something didn’t change I wouldn’t be able to stay. On top of all of this, I had multiple immediate family members pass away within 30 days of each other this last years. I’m not even sure what my question is. Is it reasonable to look for other jobs? Are all management jobs going to require this much time? Should I just stick it out?

    1. Princess Carolyn*

      It’s absolutely reasonable to be looking for jobs. If dropping your workload down to a more manageable level isn’t possible, staying in this job isn’t feasible. It sounds like you’ve been pretty clear with your boss, but you may need to actually let some balls drop to make him realize that the status quo isn’t sustainable.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        but you may need to actually let some balls drop to make him realize that the status quo isn’t sustainable.

        THIS. If you keep performing up to the level you have been, they’ll think you’re exaggerating about how unmanageable the workload is. The trick is, you need to be strategic about what balls you allow to drop – you don’t want to put your job at risk before they either decide to adjust your workload or you find something new.

      2. Burnt Out?*

        Thank you both! Affirmation on this is helpful, and good to know that this isn’t expected to be manageable.

    2. Lora*

      No all management jobs are not 80 hour workweeks. I do more like 45-50.

      Tell your boss you must prioritize NOW. Give boss a list of what you perceive the priorities to be, and ask if s/he agrees. Once you are in agreement (and don’t let any “it’s all #1” nonsense past you – pick three, that’s it) on the top 3, do only those things.

      Be ruthless about meetings which are not 100% necessary. Don’t do them, don’t let your people do them. People can’t be crapping up your time.

      Companies generally do not do things until they are absolutely forced to, and your boss is a spineless yes-man here. Have had my share of yes-men. They literally don’t believe that you can say No to things, or that you can say “if we do X, Y will not get done, so pick one. These are the resources we have, here is our capacity, deal with it” to another department or a senior manager.

      I am currently the Dragon Lady where I work who said “no, we do not have this capacity to run ourselves ragged, our capacity is X, here is how much time and resources it takes us to do X, if you want X+n then I need n more resources.” One of the yes-men thought for sure I would be fired for this. No, I just got a bigger capex budget and more headcount. You put a number on your capacity as best you can, a realistic sustainable capacity, and present options for how to increase capacity: hire people, get automation, outsource a thing, whatever. And just tell em, this is what it is, pick one. If you don’t want me to hire people, get your own happy ass in here on Saturday. Borrow people from other departments so their managers complain too. Eventually there will be enough voices yelling about headcount that you’ll get it. But also, tell people no in front of the yes-men, so they will eventually come to the realization that this is a thing and nobody dies.

      1. Saskia*

        This is actually an incredibly simple way of putting it! I’m running into this issue myself as a first time manager/interim department head and I’m going to start taking a page out of your book.

      3. Burnt Out?*

        Thank you this is very helpful. 45-50 seems super manageable to me! I have a 90 minute commute each way (DC Traffic bites) than can be cut down to more like 30 if I arrive early and leave late–so I frequently do that anyway.

    3. J. F.*

      I worked 70 hour weeks in grad school for years but it is 100% not sustainable, especially if you are not earning $$$,$$$ enough to pay everyone else to deliver dinner/ do your laundry/ walk the dog/ etc. I’d say first, lay it out one *more* time for your boss, but if they can’t “be reasonable” then it is time to look for the door.

    4. Bess*

      From the tone of your post it really sounds like you’re past the point of no return.

      I worked in a place with utterly unsustainable demands, and the managers were really just in a strange form of denial about it, and would go into red herring mode if it was ever brought up (they were gunning for promotions and basically making everyone do 3-4 jobs on minimal resources). It was just never ever going to change and it was a relief when I left.

      It might be worth asking yourself whether things that feel overwhelming now will feel better next year–some stuff is about being new to the job and org, and takes up less brain space and time with a year or so under your belt. And you could ask yourself whether you’re putting in 150% when 70% could get the job done (this is always tough for me, but a lot of stuff can be turned in “good enough” instead of “magnum opus”).

      But unless you can start limiting what you’re doing for them, sounds like it’s time to get out.

      1. Burnt Out?*

        I’ve been telling myself “at least a year” and sometimes it seems like I could stay longer, and sometimes it doesn’t! Some days it’s “Get to the end of the day” sometimes it’s “I can do another week.” and sometimes “I can do another month!” Some of it has gotten easier. The first 6 months were, straight from the boss’s mouth “Hell”

        And I think there are some places I could do 70. Ideally our work-product turnaround would be 30-60 days, and we’re running at closer to 90-120 right now. So even with dropping some balls, there’s only so much I can do. There are a few things they tried to put on my plate that I have absolutely refused. And every time they bring them up again I “resources needed” at them.

        This would be easier in many ways if I didn’t like the people I work for and with. But 8 days out of 10 I do.

        THanks again!

    5. Chaordic One*

      Of course it is reasonable to look for other jobs under the circumstances, and “No” you should not just stick it out.

      You don’t mention feeling physically ill or exhausted or dreading going to work, but you do sound stressed out. You sound like you might be to the point where you might even consider quitting without having something lined up to move on to. Start applying for other jobs covertly.

      You don’t want to just accept the first thing that comes along, but give yourself a deadline, say 3 months or 6 months or so. Then if you haven’t found a job by then, turn in your resignation so you can devote yourself to looking for another job full time.

    6. Voice from the wilderness*

      I once was in your situation.

      Looking back, my motivation was cynically used to get free work.

      A friend of mine put it in perspective when they said that on my tombstone they wouldn’t write “he did lots of overtime”.

      I see three options:
      1. Set priorities with your boss regarding things you can get done in a normal day’s work (no more than 10 hours on average).

      2. Ask for a personal meeting with your boss’ boss. In my current company, this is totally acceptable, as long as you pass the request through your boss. I’ve done it successfully. This requires some delicacy. Things have to be presented from a business point of view, stressing long term efficiency and benefit to the company. Personalizing it, by saying “I’m tired” won’t work.
      3. Get another job. Some situations can’t be salvaged.

      Good luck. You sound like someone I’d enjoy working with.

  27. Gem*

    Signed a contract for a new job (12 month contract covering maternity leave). Handed in my notice (2 months). Last day set for 25th July. Now for the weird letting people know/paranoia that the new job will fall through/excitement at the new challenges.

    I have too many feels right now, guys!

    3. Snazzy Hat*

      Congratulations! {glitter}

      I purposely didn’t tell many people about my second interview because I didn’t want to make a lot of buzz and then not get the job and have to tell everyone I didn’t get it. Thankfully, I got the job, but it was kinda strange being with certain friends and avoiding saying “oh my goodness you guys i have a second interview!” for several hours straight. O_o

  28. Mona Lisa*

    Is it ever acceptable to send in an incomplete application?

    My husband is going through his first round of the academic application cycle since finishing his doctorate. One university posted a position last Friday to an industry job board, saying they were looking to fill a faculty position quickly. They’ve already pulled down that advertisement, though he can still find it on the university’s own job board.

    The issue he’s having is that he needs to turn in three letters of recommendation with the application, but since the academic year is over, he’s having difficulty reaching his references. They’re out of town, on vacation, working at summer programs, etc. My husband is finally getting responses from them after a week, saying they could get the letters written in the next week or so.

    Would it be unacceptable for him to submit his CV and cover letter with a short message about how the other two letters he doesn’t have will arrive in the next week? He’s concerned about missing the opportunity to apply for a job at a school at which he’d really like to work because of this, but he also doesn’t want to give off a wrong impression by turning in an incomplete application. (Additionally one of his references wants to send his letter directly to the hiring committee so wouldn’t it be better if the application was already on file so there isn’t a recommendation letter hanging out there?)

    Thank you in advance for your advice!

    1. over educated*

      I would apply, the worst that can happen is he gets rejected for the incomplete application. But if he has to search again in the near future, he could consider signing up for a service like Interfolio, where his references can upload “general” letters (not tailored to each school, which is ideal) to use for short notice job applications like this.

    2. July*

      Oh, this is INCREDIBLY common. Like I can’t tell you how common. I see around 150 applications for academic positions a year and maybe 20 of them have all their reference letters in by the deadline. After the application deadline, the hiring process can move kind of slowly–particularly since it’s summer–so I would 100% not worry about this.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        I am glad to have my suspicions confirmed! I’ve worked at universities and have helped with student applications before so I know that those are frequently reviewed while incomplete on the admissions side. I just don’t have experience hiring faculty so I didn’t know whether it was common there as well.

    3. deesse877*

      It is probably not bad to send a letter and CV, with reference letters arriving separately.

      In my experience (academia but a very different field) it actually is a very strong norm to have letters of reference forwarded separately, not included in the actual packet with CV and cover letter. Furthermore, ***everyone*** knows about letter-writers lagging. They won’t consider a missing letter to be a real violation of the ad requirements, it’s just…a missing letter. He could very well miss out on consideration if they are on a tight schedule, but it won’t be ***held against him***. Here are some suggestions:
      1) Look into web-based dossier services. They are not expensive, they permit you to archive and re-send materials infinitely, and an older, generic letter can be better than none at all. Also consider, if you don’t already have it, a personal web page with a hyperlinked CV (sending ppl to the faculty pages of your referees).
      2) Add a list of references to the end of the CV, if it’s not already there. An impatient committee that nonetheless thinks he’s awesome could contact referees directly. (That isn’t a standard practice, but it does happen, especially when committee and referees are connected professionally already.)
      3) Give it a shot regardless now, knowing that although he may not be fully considered (especially if it’s a public institution with written procedures, and/or preexisting inside candidates), he won’t be burning any bridges.

      Hope that helps.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        Thank you! I think a personalized web-site should probably be in his near future anyway (he’s in music performance) so it would be a good place to archive his performance and academic CVs. I will also encourage him to look into some of these on-line dossier services for the future. I’m sure this won’t be the last time a position has a tight timeline!

    4. Hope*

      Having been on some faculty hiring committees, and knowing that the ad has already been pulled from one place, I’d say it’s definitely better to go ahead and get the application in (before it gets removed from the uni’s job board, too), then send the references as soon as he gets them.

      Especially this time of year, it’s pretty normal for there to be some trouble with references being out/gone.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        This is good to hear. We are leaving for a week-long vacation tomorrow, too, and won’t have regular computer access, which compounds the timeline stress. (He should still be reachable by e-mail/phone, but since we’ll be at a hotel, he won’t have all of his documents with him. Husband would rather get it done and not have to think about it.)

    5. J. F.*

      If they pulled the ad are you sure they’re still actually hiring? Especially at public universities, often advertisement requirements apply by law, and at private schools by policy. (Source: my spouse and I both have PhDs and teach at universities – one private, one public.)

      1. Mona Lisa*

        It was a private university. The ad they pulled was from a trade resource after one week, but they left the job posting on their public-facing HR site.

    6. Professor Ronny*

      Many faculty teach during the summer as I do. Every other one I have ever known checks their email. Email them and your husband can likely get the letter anyway (written and sent to secretary to print) or at least a recommendation email. If he cannot get them, submit anyway and explain why with an offer to get them as soon as they become available. Also, the Chair and Dean are 12-month appointments so they are in the office (unless on vacation) and might be willing to do this.

      By the way, most academic hiring takes place in November-January. Late hires, like this, are usually for a position that went unfilled and for a one-year “visiting” professor. Teaching jobs are listed in the Chronicle of Higher Education and your husband needs a subscription.

      1. Optimistic Prime*

        At my PhD university, none of my professors ever taught during the summer and they were nigh impossible to get a hold of between early to mid-June and early to mid-August.

        Also, whether or not teaching jobs are listed in CHE depends on the field. In my field, CHE does not list the vast majority of positions.

        1. Mona Lisa*

          Yes, my husband’s field (music) tends to post in specific musician-dedicated forums though it would be worth looking into CHE as well. His references work or teach at festivals during the summer, many of which are in remote/international locations, which makes e-mail access spotty.

    7. Optimistic Prime*

      Yes. Many times academic search committees are understanding that recommendation letters, especially, may come in a bit late.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        Thank you! My husband submitted everything, and I think they had at least two of the letters by early last week. There was some mix-up where they requested a 1-2 page statement about how his teaching and research would further the university’s mission statement, which he wrote out as a cover letter, but they wanted a separate essay on the topic. He ended up taking an afternoon to write it in the business center at our hotel last week because they said the committee was meeting before the end of the week. Since they’re moving so quickly, hopefully we’ll hear something soon!

  29. Librarian Ish*

    I have been at my job for ~6 years. I have mild depression/anxiety which I have been managing without any issues at work. However, I had some experiences which made things much worse, and I have recently been diagnosed with PTSD.

    I have therapy appointments scheduled for once a week and my boss has allowed me to adjust my schedule to go to those, without me having to disclose my diagnosis, or anything beyond “I have a doctor’s appointment once a week.” I could probably also take last minute time off work without any concerns.

    However, sometimes the PTSD has caused me to do worse at work. I’ve discovered some errors I’ve made which I can trace back to really high anxiety/panic attack days. I’m also worried that I will have a panic attack while I’m at work. (actually I’ve had many, but for the most part I’m alone in a cubicle so no one has noticed yet.)

    How have you made the decision to disclose an issue like this? Did you just tell your manager, or did you loop in HR?

    1. Lady Dedlock*

      I’m in a kind of similar situation—no PTSD, but depression/anxiety, and planning on starting therapy soon. My manager knows I’ve been stressed a lot this year due to our crazy workload, and on the verge of burning out. It was causing me to make more errors than usual in my work, and my stress levels definitely came through in my interpersonal interactions from time to time.

      I’ve been trying to keep the communication lines open with my manager without going into too much detail. I presented him with suggestions for reducing my stress levels at work, including working from home from time to time, and he was open to that. He also was open to any suggestions for reinforcing processes to reduce any errors that had slipped through.

      I also disclosed that I’m looking to start therapy soon. I basically said that I’m looking to learn some coping strategies so that I can weather stressful periods a little better. He was totally understanding and nonjudgmental about it, and actually told me about a therapy experience that he had had when he was younger.

      If you feel comfortable doing so, it might make sense to tell your manager at least a little bit about what’s going on so you can brainstorm ways to make your work life a little less stressful.

    2. LNZ*

      As someone who also has PTSD, and has been massively triggered at work i personally keep it to my self (unless i have a close work friend). I wouldn’t tell HR or your supervisor unless you need specific accommodations or they bring up the issues you’re seeing in your performance.
      Everyone, even nurotypical people, have off days after all. It’s also really important to learn your own mood pasterns and go easy on yourself during bad brain days. You won’t be as productive and you shouldn’t try to make yourself be.

    3. Fortitude Jones*

      I am dealing with anxiety issues and depression (my new therapist is testing me for OCD), so I just told my manager I need to leave early once a week for 16 weeks for doctors appointments – I didn’t say what kind of doctor because it isn’t her business. I did have to loop HR in though so I could get my FMLA paperwork in order. I took this route because should anyone in upper management in my division start to look sideways at me always leaving, HR will let them know it’s legit and they can’t do anything about it. And yes, my HR benefits coordinator knows exactly why I’m leaving early, and she told me know one in my division should be asking why I’m leaving early now that my FMLA has been approved and my supervisor has been notified. She said if they do, to contact her immediately.

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      I have chosen to be completely upfront and honest with my boss. She knows that when I come in 30 minutes late once a week, it is because of Therapy and she knows I have mild depression and serious anxiety. I feel strongly that by speaking up that I am creating a safer work environment for others with mental health issues and normalizing the process of therapy. I have had panic attacks at work. Since I have spoken up, I have discovered one of my coworkers also sees a therapist and we regularly “cover” each other’s therapy time. I never would have had this support if I hadn’t said anything.

      However, I have an excellent rapport with my boss and had no fears of her treating me differently or causing issues because of my health concerns. If you don’t feel that way about your boss, then I would proceed with more caution. Generally though, I believe honesty is the best policy. You boss can’t consider what she doesn’t know about.

    5. NoMoreMrFixit*

      I also suffer from depression and anxiety. In the past I have discussed my condition with my manager when I realized that it was impacting my work. These days people are generally more aware of mental health issues. However this does depend massively on your relationship with your boss. My last 2 managers were very understanding and went out of their way to help me through some rough times. The trigger for me was that my performance was being directly impacted and others were noticing my increase in mistakes and behavioural changes. If things with your boss are not great then I suggest you go to HR instead.

    6. Thinking Outside the Boss*

      I’m a managing attorney for a state office in California, and my wife also has Major Depression and Anxiety. So I understand about some of those days you’ve mentioned because my wife has them too, and so does one of my employees.

      If you’re in the U.S. and your employer is subject to FMLA, I would tell HR as well. Our HR department is responsible for working with the employee regarding FMLA issues. Once HR knows, then you won’t have to rely on your boss’s flexibility, especially if your current boss moves on and you get a new one. Also, it will head off any work error related problems before they manifest into bigger performance issues.

      As mentioned, one of my employees is in your situation and she disclosed her medical restrictions to me and HR, and submitted all her FMLA paperwork through HR. Because of her medical restrictions being disclosed, we understand that sometimes she is making errors through no fault of her own, and take this into account.

      Although my employee told me her diagnosis, there is no requirement that your boss know what your condition is, just that you have medical restrictions. That’s why HR is involved because your actual medical condition will be shared between your doctor and HR, and never your boss.

      Best of luck to you!

    7. tiny temping teapot*

      I’m a temp so I never tell and cover the best I can. At my old Toxicjob, disclosing made my horrible boss more horrible to me. After hearing a coworker here say someone she disliked “chose to be crazy,” and no one correcting her, I would probably never disclose here either.

      But obviously neither depression or anxiety gives me the greatest gut instincts about this. As the Bloggess says, my jerkbrain doesn’t give me good advice.

  30. NonnyNon*

    I think this falls under the category of “probably unethical” but no one else in my office seems to think so, so I need a reality check here.

    My office has a problem of deliverables never getting produced and sent to clients. We’ll complete the first part of the project (say, reviewing or testing teapots) and bill for that but never write a report for what we did. In some cases we’ll bill for the report with everything else (before writing the report) and sometimes we’ll bill for it separately, which makes it hard when we re-discover these unfinished projects (or are contacted about them by the client) to know what we’ve been paid for.

    Some of these we don’t find out about until 1-2 years after the report should have been delivered. My boss has a policy of charging all clients who contact us about missing reports a “reviewing charge”, under the guise of taking a few days to find the report, review it for accuracy and update as needed, and then send it to the client. In reality, during those few days we’re writing the report from scratch. Again, in some of these cases we’ve already been paid for this work so the new charge is essentially double-charging the clients. My boss argues that because we “never really know if we were paid” that it’s okay to do this.

    I’m relatively new both to the company and this field and have been told that this “just happens to everyone” and it’s not a big deal. But it feels unethical to be handling the situation this way. I also can’t figure out how the reports don’t get written in the first place, except for extreme disorganization or sheer laziness (these are reports that should take you less than a week to write, review, and finalize, unlike some of our other work which can take 3-4 weeks to write). And we’re talking +/- 12 reports in the 1.5 years that I’ve been here.

    So, is it actually kind of shady to be doing this or is it really a normal thing that happens? If it is shady do I have any way to push back when the entire office doesn’t view it as a problem, or do I just have to suck it up?

    1. LizB*

      This seems very very weird, and like people are just… only doing half of their jobs? And management doesn’t care? I could see it happening very occasionally if there are a LOT of reports to write and high turnover, but if this is a regular thing… I’m confused at how that can possibly be okay.

      1. Myrin*

        Yeah, I read it the same way and feel like I must be missing something because surely that can’t be it?

      2. NonnyNon*

        Management knows but for these particular things they’re pretty hands-off (they tend to be projects that are passed to high-level employees who are expected to manage them completely independently- why management doesn’t keep tabs on them anyway I don’t know).

        Management’s solution is what I described above: cover up what happened to the client, get the report written in a few days for a nominal charge (that, again, could be a double-charge… our horrendous record-keeping is obviously a problem here too), and then send the report to the client as if we “found” it rather than just wrote it.

        I don’t know about turnover. We have a lot of people working here 8+ years (who are the ones doing this) and then it’s very hush-hush on people who have left before I joined so I don’t know how many people in my position have quit/been fired.

        1. NonnyNon*

          Also, as further clarification there are a lot of reports to write with this job just in general and the overwhelming majority of them DO get written. I think management has taken the opinion of, “It’s not great that this is happening but it’s not frequent [in comparison to the volume of reports that do get completed], so here’s how we’ll handle it when it does.” Most of the reports are projects of a former employee that he never completed so there’s no disciplinary action to be taken there. But my senior coworkers have made comments about how “it happens to all of us” and “if the client calls looking for it, you just stall for time until you can get it written” so clearly it’s a company-wide issue and not just one bad ex-employee.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Very fraudulent – yikes! Nonny, are you sure you still want to work for these people, because this method of operation is very concerning.

        1. NonnyNon*

          I actually don’t want to keep working here, no. I was planning on putting in two years and then looking for a new job, since this is my only experience in this field. But I am glad to hear that I’m right about this not being “normal”.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        Yeah, I am sitting here with my mouth open. Double-charging them for work the company didn’t do? That’s shady AF. I’m wondering if somebody is making bank off these fees.

    3. Lily in NYC*

      This is unbelievably shady and fraudulent! I’m also confused as to why these clients pay you before they receive the reports – I work in contract management and we require deliverables for each invoice.

      1. OwnedByTheCat*

        I’m also trying to imagine if someone tried to charge me a “reviewing charge” for a contractually-obligated deliverable they hadn’t delivered…

        1. NonnyNon*

          I don’t think many people pay it, to be honest.

          If the report is several years old (which happens way more than you think, and I have no idea why clients don’t realize for YEARS that they’re missing their reports) my boss tries to play it off as, “Oh, you MUST have a copy of it, but if you can’t find it then we’ll be glad to review our files and we can update the report for a small fee as well…” (I think the fee is ~$100, for reports that are closer to $1,000 billable hours to write, which may be why some people agree to it? But I have no idea how my boss tries to “spin” the situation if the missing report is from less than a year ago. I just know we send invoices for these projects when we probably shouldn’t be.)

      2. Lora*

        Do they even have any repeat customers? Is this a super tiny niche industry?

        I have a couple of things I have to buy for which there are only a few, or even one, vendor on earth. They can be terrible but there’s nothing to be done about it. It sucks, and we try to figure out a way to bring that sort of thing in house even though it’s really not our specialty.

        Sometimes part of the contract is things which are not 100% critical. They agree to provide a very specific documentation which is more of a nice to have than a critical thing I can’t live without. And I just sort of deal with it, realizing that either they won’t do it or they’ll do it badly and late. Yes it sucks, yes it’s unethical, but there’s just not a lot of neodymium or HF suppliers in the world. It gets to a point with some of them that you write them off as completely fictional.
        “Sure, we have (extremely hazardous thing) in the catalog! We can ship you a sample in two days!”
        Um, how are you going to ship it? Isn’t it a percussive explosive?
        “We’ll send it in a padded envelope, then.”
        But some of them, you buy it anyways, knowing it will suck, knowing that they are douchebags, but screw it, they’ll get it to you fast and in one piece or whatever.

        1. TL -*

          There is an antibody company that is famous for that (well, they’re famous for something else now, actually) – but they had the worst reputation. However, they sold antibodies super cheap and they’d replace them as many times as you wanted until you got a batch that work. And they had them for everything.

    4. LNZ*

      That seems kind of illegal not just unethical. The fact that you know about it means you could be caught up in any legal action too so honestly i’d get out as soon as you can.

    5. JulieBulie*

      What jumps out at me is your boss saying “we ‘never really know if we were paid.'”

      How do they not know whether they were paid? This should be a very easy thing to keep track of – whether they were billed together or separately, there should be a record of bills and payments. Right? Never in a million years would I want to do business with people who aren’t sure whether they cashed my checks or not!

      The unfinished work is a whole other issue, but my head is already exploding at the thought of the bad bookkeeping.

      Higher on this page is a post from someone who didn’t get paid for some work. Here we have people who paid for work they didn’t get. Because I love symmetry, I should find this soothing, but I do not. :o(

  31. Lindsey*

    How do you guys deal with a not-present boss? She has been out on medical leave for 3 out of the last six months (in and out for a month) for a very sad reason, but at the same time, it means that my workload has been reduced from 45 hours a week to about 20. I’m on the younger side and looking aggressively to continue to move up in my career.

    I work from home, and there’s not a ton of direction if my boss is out (my department is only 2 years old, and I’m the longest-serving employee at 1.5 years). It’s hard to “pick up” work when I have to set up a formal call for that request. Adding to that, my department is very unpopular to most of the rest of the organization (we’re very high revenue, but not “core” to the rest of the organization – for example, people in other departments feel OK telling us to stop “being nosy” when we try and interact with the rest of the organization).

    I only have one other colleague on my team that is in my time zone (team of 4 including my boss), so we’re both kind of twiddling our thumbs, since we need someone higher-level than us to advocate. My grandboss (our director) has said that she’s willing to give me more work, but it never materializes because she’s so busy covering my boss’ work, which is only about 10% of what she covers.

    I know I could take EdX courses or something, but the higher-level certificates (like the PMP) require more experience than I have. Any suggestions? I’m not interested in learning to code or anything like that, and am really mostly interested in figuring out how to take advantage of my organization.

    1. Optimistic Prime*

      My job might be a little different, because even when my boss is out my work is kind of self-directed so there are always lots of things I can take on. But when my manager’s a little unavailable, I turn to the other senior people on my team for guidance and questions. Are there any projects that senior people on your team are working on that they could use some help with?

  32. the.kat*

    My office is incredibly short staffed (and working on that right now) but I’m finding the current load of work to be unbearable. Things are not getting done that should and I can feel my boss getting frustrated with me. For the next few weeks, I’m going to have to be Super Woman and am having a hard time keeping up. I’m naturally unorganized and work happiest with a slight tinge of panic to everything. That works for me normally but not right now.

    Does anyone else work best with a slight panic looming on the horizon? How can I combat that to stick my nose to the grindstone and be a superhero for the next few weeks? Any coping techniques would be helpful.

    1. the.kat*

      Also, the things that aren’t getting done aren’t getting done because “priority 1” projects keep getting added to my plate by my boss. It’s like I work in a button factory and I’m starting to push buttons with my left foot and my right foot and my nose.

      1. tigerStripes*

        If I have something important I’m working on, and the boss says to drop everything and work on something else, I will bring up the thing I’m working on and ask if it can wait or if it should be reassigned, etc. A reasonable boss appreciates this.

      2. Detective Amy Santiago*

        My very first professional job out of college, I had a boss who would do this. First thing in the morning, he’d say “I need you to focus on X today” and I would start working on X. Then a couple of hours later, he’d say “Y needs done right now. Top priority.” So I’d put X aside and start working on Y. An hour after that he’d say “Drop everything and get Z done”. At the end of the day, he’d wonder why X wasn’t done.

        Being new to the workforce, I had no idea how to navigate this and went to our HR rep. She sat down with both of us and we had a conversation about managing expectations and priorities and suggested that I remind him that I was working on X when he would ask me to do Y so that he could make that judgment call.

        Good luck. I hope you get your staffing situation sorted quickly.

        1. Snazzy Hat*

          I had a love-hate relationship with the task pile at my first two temp office jobs. At Llamagrams, there was a clear hierarchy where the senior associates’ requests went in order of receipt, but our supervisor could cut in front of someone in line, and everyone knew and accepted this. It helped that the supervisor’s requests were usually very short and had a “how did we miss this?!” feel to them. However, at Alpacacards, my supervisor could present me with several tasks including a longer project, and also the department manager might do the same. Whenever my task pile at Alpacacards got to four tasks, I’d send an email to the supervisor and manager, pointing out how many tasks there were and asking how the tasks should be prioritized.

          I’m glad you were able to get your confusion settled quickly, and by HR no less.

      3. Hapless Bureaucrat*

        I’ve gone through a few cycles of this with short staffing or with grand bosses who seemed to think my team’s time was infinitely expandable. We learned that a useful approach was to list all our ongoing tasks and upcoming deadlines and rank them. Then, when asked to take on more work, we would use the list to say “right now, we are getting our A and B priorities done, but not C. If we add this, we won’t be able to complete [x number of B priority tasks]. Please let us know which is the higher priority for you.” I can also put a timeline on it. “We can function for the months and get all priorities done, but after that C priorities slow down.”
        If the grandboss just hadn’t noticed how much was on our plate, that sometimes helped them back off. If they wanted to go forward with the project, they often DID give us a go ahead to drop lower priority items. And if nothing else, when priority C did drop and it got messy, well, we’d warned them….
        Structuring the conversation that way also left less room for “just do it all,” because our task list was… long. And once in a while we could even get the grand boss to identify other resources for us.
        All of this was defensive documentation because a) grand boss was horrid and b) we were always short of funding, but it was also a useful planning exercise for us to use in ordering our work and deadlines.

      4. Optimistic Prime*

        This happens to me a lot. I’ve learned that when it does, I need to tell my manager “I understand that you want me to finish Project X this week. I could potentially do that, but only if it’s okay if I delay Project A and leave Project B unfinished or hand it off to someone else. Is that okay or is there another way you’d like me to prioritize?” The basic message is “it is impossible for me to do all of the things you want me to do in this time frame, so what can I bump?” My manager is pretty good at helping me move things on and off my plate as needed.

    2. Witty Nickname*

      My biggest coping technique is to make sure everything I need to get done is where I can easily see it and keep track of it. I have a white board on my desk and use it to track everything I need to do. I bought a bunch of small post-it pads in different colors; on one half of my board, across the top, I have a post it for each project I’m working on (I tried to do a different color for each, but I only have 4 colors, and I have 6 projects up there currently). Under each project, in a column, I keep a list of all the things I need to get one – one thing per post-it. Once I do the thing, I move it to my completed section at the bottom of my board.

      The other half of my board is have a small space for notes and things, and then another space where I write “To Do (today): each day I choose a few post-its from my list that I absolutely MUST get done that day, and put them there. Once I finish those, I pick anything else from the list I have time to get done and want to get done that day.

      I use project management software to manage all of the deliverables for my project teams, but I like having all of my to-dos right in front of me, especially when I’m busier than normal. (It’s also nice to see all the things I’ve completed over the course of a project, and it has the added benefit of being a visual representation of everything you have on your plate for the people who tend to keep piling more on there).

      My other coping technique is to allow myself a few minutes of downtime between larger tasks, or every couple hours, to recharge my brain and allow me to switch gears as needed.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      Are you telling your boss in real time how her last-minute requests affect the other things you’re working on? “Sure, I’ll take this on. So you know, that means I won’t get Other Urgent Project done until Thursday instead of Tuesday like we originally talked about.”

      If you aren’t doing this, part of her frustration might just be due to not having foreknowledge that balls are going to be dropped.

    4. Superorganizer*

      I have a notebook that I have on my desk, right beside my computer, and every morning I have/write down a list of things I need to get done. As I get them done, I write an “X” in the box. If I can’t get it done that day, I put a little right-facing arrow in the box, and write it on my list for the next day. Sometimes the “tasks” are recurring, for projects that take a long time or things I need to do daily/weekly, so I plan as soon as I know what I need to do by flipping ahead to that day’s page and writing it in, etc. Since starting to do this, I never drop any balls!

    5. Optimistic Prime*

      I do! I’m actually working on a really important, fast-moving project right now and my manager has been surprised and delighted about how much I relish it. I love working when I feel like I’m maybe just about to fall off the edge a bit.

  33. LNZ*

    So question about giving gifts to bosses. I know the general rule is don’t but what if it’s a gift you literally can get for free?
    My step-mom owns a little wine label and for the last few years I have been basically getting a free bottle or two from her and giving them as gifts to coworkers or immediate supervisors around the holidays (and once as a thank you for letting be barrow their car).
    I don’t like wine so it’s not like i ask my step-mom for bottles through out the year, so she doesn’t mind giving me a few to pass on as gifts and free promotion. I also always discreetly check around to make sure the person drinks wine before giving it. I also am one of those people who just likes giving gifts.

    1. the.kat*

      I think your problem here might be optics. Even though the gift didn’t cost you anything, has a perceived value and might pressure other people on your level to give to the boss the same way, which would cost them something. I would still say no on this.

      1. LNZ*

        I actually am asking this now because for the first time I’m in a department that isn’t just me and the boss alone in an office and that actually was a concern (more will it be looked down on instead of will i be negatively effecting them)

      2. fposte*

        Yup. I would do if it you can bring in a bottle for everybody in your department, but not if you have to single the boss out.

        1. LNZ*

          Before that’s pretty much been the situation, the various bosses and I were the department. But I’ve just started a new job at a bigger place.

    2. Myrin*

      I think the problem with gifting up is giving gifts at all, not whether you paid for them or they have an actual value or similar.

    3. Lora*

      No. Do not. I don’t care if it’s free, it’s just weird. If you want to bring something in for everyone to share including boss, that is fine, bring it for everyone.

      Source: I’m a boss and that would weird me right out.

      Best gift for a boss is getting your stuff done well and on time and being generally pleasant to be around most of the time. I will accept a written, heartfelt card or note if you are leaving or something and we are having a going-away party for you, but then I am already giving you a nice lunch, a cake and a card of my own, so that’s cool.

      I promise, we are well-compensated and are the “what to get someone who has everything” types. We don’t want anything other than the occasional chance to put our feet up.

      1. LNZ*

        Actually up until this new job i just started it was a bringing it for everyone situation because i’ve only worked in very very small departments.

  34. Jackie Paper*

    I had an interview recently for a job with the county. The job would be doing a certain amount of strategic planning, planning out programs, etc. After the interview they asked me to write out some in-depth answers to a couple of theoretical questions and also to write out a strategic plan for delivering services (that I came up with) for a hypothetical community within the county, including a sustainability plan and timeline for achieving all of this. They asked me to return all of this in one week (on Memorial Day as it turns out).

    I was a bit overwhelmed. It seemed like a lot to ask someone to do in one week by themselves for a job they might not even get. But I did it anyway because the job sounded interesting. I ended up writing about 15 pages (single spaced) and the whole thing took around 21 hours of my time (I also currently work full-time). Turned in the work on Memorial Day as requested (even though I knew they were closed that day). Haven’t heard from them since.

    Now I’m just wondering, well, all kinds of things really. But partly, did they just want someone to do a bunch of free work they could then just take and use? Or are they just slow in responding? Or perhaps my work was so far off from what they wanted that they can’t even respond …

    Any thoughts/advice? I’m wondering if this whole situation was a red flag or if it seems reasonable to other people.

    1. Maybe We Can*

      Shady. You shouldn’t have to do more than an exercise. They essentially asked you to do this work for free.

    2. LizB*

      If your county is anything like my county, they will move slooooooowly. Like, snail-stuck-in-rush-hour-traffic slowly. Also, if the community you wrote the plan for is hypothetical, would they really even be able to use your plan? I think it’s pretty unlikely they were just trying to get free work out of you.

      1. stuff happens*

        As someone who’s worked in local government for a long time, I agree with this 100%

    3. Lily in NYC*

      Hmm, I have mixed feelings. My first thought is that it does not seem like free work because it was a hypothetical scenario. And to be honest, there’s very little chance you would turn in something they could actually use (I don’t mean that as a dig to your skill-level, I just mean you won’t really know their needs until you work there). We always give case studies to candidates and the product is never usable -we really just want to understand someone’s thought process and work style. However, ours only take 30 minutes and are done during a 2nd-round interview. I think they asked you for too much, and I guess there’s always the chance they might be trying to glean some nuggets of wisdom from what you turned in.
      I wouldn’t worry that you haven’t hear back – g

      1. Lily in NYC*

        Yikes, I hit send too soon. I wouldn’t worry that you haven’t heard back – things tend to be a bit slower after a 3-day weekend…

    4. fposte*

      It’s not looking shady to me right now; at some levels I would ask for similar stuff (though I’m not sure whether their expectations were right for this level). I think I hear some puzzlement or annoyance that they had such a tight deadline for you but haven’t turned around their response quickly, and I’m afraid that’s par for the course, especially in government.

      1. Jackie Paper*

        Yeah, it just seemed like a lot to ask a job candidate to do in a short amount of time. A project that, if I were doing it for real, I would expect to take several months and work on with a team. Also I guess, that they haven’t even acknowledged that they received it or that they would be taking some time to absorb it. Though I can understand it might take some time to parse out.

        I just wasn’t sure if it was my expectations that were off or theirs. I appreciate the replies!

    5. Bess*

      That kind of thing is standard at my institution and I do think it’s a bit much, but it’s the setup so there’s not too much anyone can do about it. Some of it is being able to document/demonstrate that the best candidate was hired, that hires weren’t about nepotism or connections but about work–if it’s the county, might be the same story.

      I do know a videographer who put together a whole ad video for a school system job interview that he didn’t end up getting. They asked him if they could still use it, and he kind of waffled in the moment and said they could talk about some kind of consulting fee. But that’s a little easier because it’s a video asset and he’d have had to give them files.

    6. Frustrated Optimist*

      I have no particular opinion/insight as to whether they’re just slow, versus getting you to work for free.

      I am extremely curious, though. Will you update us in a future open thread?

      1. Jackie Paper*

        They could just be moving slowly, but they contacted me initially just a few days after I applied and wanted me to interview basically the next day. Then asking me to complete that huge project in a week, it just seemed like they were trying to move quickly. Not that they would be likely to actually steal my written work, but pretty much all of the programs I came up with could be taken and applied to actual (non-hypothetical) communities. So, it could really be a treasure-trove of ideas if they had a bunch of candidates do the same thing.

        I will try to remember to update when/if I hear anything back.

    7. Thlayli*

      Sorry I have no advice whatsoever I just wanted to say I LOVE your screen name. puff the magic dragon was one of my favourite songs as a child and as I’ve grown I cry every time I hear it it just so sad and yet so sweet

  35. Katie Elderberry*

    I accepted a job in Southern Florida and am moving in two weeks (from Maryland). Any tips for dressing professionally in a tropical climate?

    2. Lindsey*

      Dresses are better than pants, do not underestimate the power of linen, bring a blazer to throw on over things (just keep it draped over the back of your chair).

      1. Treecat*

        SING THE PRAISES OF LINEN

        Okay maybe that’s over the top but seriously, linen is the best fabric for hot climates. Yeah it wrinkles, but it’s so hot and humid in Florida that it’ll probably unwrinkle as soon as you hang it up, no problem.

    3. pmac*

      Very cool, congrats! I’ve lived in both Maryland and Florida, so I know humidity is bad for both. I’d wear breezy, light-weight fabrics and high SPF sunscreen. I hope your new job has good A/C!

    4. soflo*

      I’ve been in Miami a couple years – dress code is pretty loose here! I’ve seen very short skirts with very high heels and hot pink bras under white shirts. I would say get some nice shell sleeveless tops to pair with pants or pencil skirts and a rotating collection of cardigans that fit in your purse for the arctic blast air conditioning. I’m always freezing inside!

    5. Bex*

      I spend quite a bit of time in my company’s Miami office, and I basically live in linen slacks. I gave up on dresses because it might be 95 outside, but dear god does everyone love their AC. Indoors, it’s downright chilly.

    6. Teapot Librarian*

      I’d see what “professional” looks like in your new office. It may be more towards business casual, which would give more options. And congratulations!

    7. Emily*

      Make sure you have something (a sweater or similar) to wear if you get cold inside! Based on my experiences in North Carolina, Florida, and Georgia, a lot of places with hot weather will keep the indoor temperatures pretty cold.

      1. Merida Ann*

        Yes, that’s what I was going to say. I’m in central Florida, it’s been in the 90s for the past week or so, but I’m always in my warmest sweaters when I’m inside because the AC is so cold in my office. They overcompensate, and it just makes it uncomfortable inside as well as outside.

    8. Lily in NYC*

      You will be shocked at how much more casual workplaces are in FL – it’s just too hot otherwise. My mom lives in Southern FL and I rarely see people in suits or formal clothing, even in fancier places like law firms. It is very common to see professional women in sleeveless sundresses.

    9. Mal*

      Try the blog Outfit Posts – she lives in Florida and her style is what I would consider Florida or California professional

    10. Ashie*

      I worked in Tampa Bay for a dozen years – Florida is super laid back! I remember we interviewed a prospective new ED who had flown in from NYC and she was dressed in a black suit. She asked midway through if it was OK if she took her jacket off and we basically just laughed – duh of course it’s OK! She told us later (after she was hired) that the board member who had picked her up at the airport was wearing ripped jeans and sandals and she didn’t know how to react.

      So to answer your question, sheath dresses and flip flops all year round. You’ll be great.

    11. Amy*

      I read AAM’s dress recommendations and was particularly struck by the no armpit at work policy. I only own sleeveless blouses. I pair them with a blazer or cardigan. It can often be freezing inside in South Florida and of course, hot and humid outside. And sometimes the air goes out in an office so it becomes too hot inside. You need layers that can come on and off! It is much more casual down here.

    12. JulieBulie*

      Avoid polyester.

      Some of those blouses look very crisp and nice on the hanger in the store. Do not be deceived. Oh, they will still look crisp and nice when you’re wearing them, but on the inside they will be hot and sweaty and stinky and you will want to burn them when you get home.

      But you won’t burn them, because they’ll look so crisp and nice. It’s a vicious circle.

  36. Tau*

    I got a job I got a job I got a job!!!

    I’d had two Skype interviews and then the in-person interview on Monday. There were surprisingly few standard-interview-y questions a la “tell me about a time when…”, the biggest part was a technical skills test and then presenting and discussing it afterwards. I guess it makes sense for tech interviews? Anyway, I was really nervous but super enjoyed the discussion about the test, and everything about the job looks and sounds fantastic so far.

    The offer came yesterday and I handed in my notice today. I didn’t negotiate because they gave me the top of the range I’d asked for. I’m now wondering if I should have asked for a higher range, but eh – I’d already upped my range for this position, and if my market research is correct the offer is 20% above the average for my level of experience, which seems pretty good. It’s also a full 70% (!!!) more than what I’m earning now, although the fact that it’s in a different country with a very different tax system and COL means you can’t compare the two salaries as directly as you might otherwise.

    One piece of advice from Alison that I found really helpful was to pretend to myself that I was approaching them as a successful contractor considering taking on another client instead of a job applicant. That really helped me flip my brain away from “aaaah if I say something wrong they will think I am a terrible person and reject me and everything will be woe and despair forever” and into professional Tau mode, where I could really assess whether this was a good fit. I’m pretty sure that’s what gave me the courage to have an honest discussion about work hours – I’m an early bird and work/life balance is very important to me, and that was something I’d been really worried about.

    So, yeah, we still need to hash out the contract and there is SO much work coming at me relocation-wise, but…

    I got a job!!!

    3. Nea*

      One piece of advice from Alison that I found really helpful was to pretend to myself that I was approaching them as a successful contractor considering taking on another client instead of a job applicant.

      Ooooh, I’d missed that the first time around and it’s brilliant! Will remember it.

      Congratulations on your new job!

    4. Myrin*

      Yay, huge congrats!
      (And I totally missed that you’d already moved back here, I totally thought a big move was yet to come!)

      1. Tau*

        Thank you!

        And oh no, the big move IS yet to come. Hence a lot of work coming at me relocation-wise! I have a rather daunting list of things I need to sort out involving bank accounts and health insurance and flats and the like, but I’ve arranged for a month off between the two jobs which will hopefully give me enough time that I’m reasonably settled when the new job starts. For instance, I’d like to have found a flat by then!

    8. Snazzy Hat*

      Whaaaaaaaa! {flings new job glitter and good luck glitter} Congratulations! I’m glad the “successful contractor” role helped! None of the role-playing suggestions really clicked with me in my most recent application process — I start my new job in less than two weeks! {flings more new job glitter} — but for my second in-person interview I ended up adapting “someone else got the job, whatever, the manager and I are gonna chat about stuff” to “the manager thinks I’m cool and wants to introduce me to a couple of her colleagues [at a panel interview] but this has nothing to do with the position”.

      Best of luck in relocating, too!

  37. Luisa*

    About three weeks ago, I got an automated email from the admissions office at Local Public University, requesting that I provide a reference for an applicant I’ll call “Kelly Peterson,” who is seeking admission for a professional degree in my field. I don’t know Kelly Peterson (I know a few Kellys, and a few Petersons, but no past or present Kelly Peterson). There is a Kelly Peterson who works for my employer in a similar type of role, but she works at a different site, has never worked at any site I have ever worked at, and has – as far as I can tell – never attended any meetings, professional development seminars, etc. that I have also attended. No one in my professional network has that name, and none of the new graduates of my alma mater, whose alumni network I am active in, has that name. What I’m trying to convey is that there is no chance that I know Applicant Kelly Peterson.

    I emailed the Kelly Peterson who works for my employer to inform her about this reference request and to suggest that, if she is Applicant Kelly Peterson, she might want to contact the university to correct her reference list. I also acknowledged in the email that she might not be Applicant Kelly Peterson, and apologized for bothering her if that was the case. (A Google search for Kelly Peterson + my city brings up a few hits, but none that clearly indicate someone who works in or adjacent to my field.) She never emailed me back, which is fine – except that I just got another email from the university regarding my reference for Applicant Kelly Peterson.

    I am assuming that this is due to a benign error either by the university or Applicant Kelly Peterson, since I can’t imagine anyone thinking that listing a complete stranger on their reference list was a good idea. (My name is not very common and is not spelled similarly to any extremely common names, but typos happen.)

    Here’s my question, for the many readers in higher ed on this board: Should I contact the university admissions office to alert them to this error, given that my attempt to contact the person who seemed most likely to be Applicant Kelly Peterson failed? I would hate for her application to be rejected because it’s incomplete, but I also worry that it would reflect negatively on her if I call admissions to say that I’m a complete stranger who somehow ended up on her reference list. (I feel like that could suggest carelessness at best, or an attempt to be deceitful at worst.) Anyone who works in or adjacent to admissions care to weigh in?

    1. Lindsey*

      Not in admissions, but from my perspective, just give them a heads up that you do not know Kelly Peterson and that her reference list needs to be corrected. I would frame it as assuming that an email was spelled wrong or something like that.

      But, hey, it’s references. It’s her responsibility to check and be careful on those.

      1. Definitely Anon*

        It could easily be the people in admissions that made the mistake. You may be listed as a reference for someone else or they may have made a typo. You don’t have enough information to assume it was the applicant’s mistake. Since you don’t know who “Kelly Peterson” is you should definitely let them know. It is on them to figure out who made the mistake.

    2. Graciosa*

      I’m not really getting the issue here. You’re worried about telling the truth because it might make a stranger look bad?

      If she really was careless or deceitful, why do you imagine you are obligated to help hide the fact?

      Frankly, you’ve done more than I would have in searching for a possible contact and reaching out to her in advance to give her a chance to fix the error (if she made one).

      I would contact whoever was sending the request to say (politely) that I didn’t know this person and (politely) ask them to stop sending me reference requests when I was unable to provide a reference. That would be the end of my involvement.

      Whatever happens or doesn’t happen to Applicant Kelly Peterson is her issue to deal with, but again, I really wouldn’t worry about it. If this is going to stress you out and you need a way to avoid feeling bad because you can’t accept that you’re not responsible (although you’re not) if AKP suffers consequences from her own behavior and ends up not being accepted to the program, another applicant will be in her place. That person should be judged fairly rather than suffering by comparison to a candidate the admissions team did not realize was either careless or deceitful.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I think you’ve done some very nice informing, but you don’t need to do too much more. Things like this happen to me ALL THE TIME– I have an uncommon last name but I use first-initial-lastname for my email address, and I’ve received several emails for people who are not me. I think what you should do is write back to the admissions office and say that you received the reference requests in error, full stop.

      I doubt the Kelly Peterson who works at your company put your name down in any way, which is why she hasn’t answered you. It’s more likely to be a typo by whoever enters things into the application system, and what’s more, I’m sure this happens a lot and does not reflect badly on the candidate. Typos happen.

    4. Manders*

      Is it possible that someone you know named Kelly has recently gotten married and changed her name? It’s more probable that the university just messed up and called the wrong person, but there’s a chance that one of the Kellys you know could actually be Kelly Peterson now.

    6. fposte*

      Yeah, I think you’re overthinking this and also very kindly overworking it. I would email the admissions office (email should be easily publicly available if it’s not in the email) with a “Sorry, some kind of mixup–I don’t know this applicant” and then let it go.

    7. Observer*

      I’m not sure why you are worrying about this. Just email them back saying that this was sent to you in error, because you don’t know Kelly Peterson.

      There are a dozen different ways this could have happened, but you need to get the emails to stop.

  38. Anon Accountant*

    I started reading the book the “No A$$hole rule” and love it. For those in a toxic, bullying environment try reading this book. I’m a few pages in and like it so far.

    One thing I’m struggling with (as are many who are in toxic places too long) is how toxic behaviors rub off on you and you begin to repeat the behaviors you witness. The book is supposed to address this so I’ll let you know.

    This week we had a great employee resign. She worked with a mean, nothing you do is right or enough, brilliant jerk. Another accountant who worked with him quit in October.

    A bookkeeper is throwing a tantrum that she’s quitting if 2 others she doesn’t like aren’t fired. They’re trying to appease her because she refused to take on additional work unless they’re fired or quit.

  39. Discordia Angel Jones*

    Update on a couple of previous comments of mine:

    I did it! I’ve now handed in my resignation to Toxic Job and accepted an offer of a New Job which pays me nearly double! (For any who read my comment in the overreactions thread, my bosses are the ones who threw kettles and phones around ;) )

    If anyone remembers New Job was the one where in the first interview I split my skirt up the front and had to repair it with safety pins!

    1. Discordia Angel Jones*

      I 100% credit finding this website to my superior CV drafting and interviewing performance! :D

    3. Tau*

      Congratulations! And wow, I remember that story – what an epic interview! Here’s hoping your new job goes excellently, and with a minimum of both flying appliances (?!?!) and clothing mishaps. ;)

    4. motherofdragons*

      This is fantastic news in general, but made even more sweet by how terrible ToxicJob was, and how unexpected and exciting your interview story is! :) Congrats!

    6. Snazzy Hat*

      BOO-YAH! Congratulations! {flings new job glitter}

      Also I somehow missed the original story about the skirt mishap. I’m glad you retold it so I could join in with laughter! :-D That is to say, I’m extra glad that didn’t cost you the job. Phew!

    7. Tedious Cat*

      Oh wow, that’s wonderful! I had a good feeling about your interview because of how well both you and your interviewer handled the wardrobe malfunction.

  40. Pineapple Incident*

    What’s the high and low of your week this week? This short week has been a good balance of things I love and don’t so much about my now not-so-new job (been since January).

    I had to deal with someone who used the old “Well we’ve been doing it this way since way before YOU got here!” This person is continuously difficult with job tasks, but has a nice demeanor most of the time and has since apologized. I get a lot of work from her and though she’s not above me, I end up doing a lot of her work since it takes a lot to get corrections from her.

    Another colleague who sends me things that I review sent a very nice thank you card through inter-campus mail after I helped her out with a project she had to do but hasn’t yet received training required to complete it properly. That just made my day, and then someone else this morning told me I’m “killing it.” I would never have gotten this kind of praise at my previous job, and it’s nice to hear.

    1. Teapot Librarian*

      Hooray for praise! What a great way to end the week!

      High #1: My new employee started on Tuesday!! I’m so excited about this for more reasons than I can count.
      High #2: I got a phone call from someone who was looking for the person in my position 7 years ago. It turned out he was calling about something that I’ve had on my to-do list since December 2015 (oops) and now that he and I are in contact, we may actually make progress on it!
      Low #1: Short week (plus out two days) means I’m incredibly far behind in everything.
      Low #2: Issues with a supply order I requested last week. Sigh.

    2. Lora*

      High: the operations yesterday ran very smoothly, it was glorious, everything went even a little better than planned. Slick as can be.
      Low: I had to explain to an a-hole, in little words, that yelling at people to care more when they are working 60 hour workweeks, is not a winning management strategy. I also found out that this same a-hole has been screwing up how we do calculations for the past 8 months and now I have to comb back through the data to figure out all the screw-ups. I only found this out because he tried to argue with me about how *I* was doing the math and a (male, of course) manager told him that no, I was right.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      High: I took initiative (in the right way!) on a project and balanced some complicated issues for a complicated client.

      Low: My boss spoke to me about my attention to detail, which is definitely something I struggle with, especially when I’m still in the ramping-up period and don’t have a ton of work to do. It sounds counterintuitive, but the more I do, the better I am, and the less I do, the more nerve-wracking every little task becomes, so I pay less attention. It doesn’t help that I’m working hard to manage a ton of anxiety and depression issues, and this week was just baaaad. Our conversation went extremely well, though, much better than I expected… and I’m kicking myself over the whole thing because I read a critical email from my boss while on the way to an event for my birthday (!) and it basically ruined my whole night. It shouldn’t have.

      Bonus high: My co-workers got me my favorite dessert for my birthday, so the day wasn’t a total wash!

      1. Teapot Librarian*

        Happy birthday! (I’ve totally done the “read an email from the boss at the wrong moment and have it ruin my night” thing. I’m sorry you had that experience.) And good luck with the anxiety and depression. I’ve been there too.

    4. Bess*

      Low: Project managing a project where the primary contributor doesn’t want to have any meetings or set any deadlines (and won’t adhere to a meeting agenda and will overtalk if I attempt to hold us to it) and basically I think doesn’t want to work on the project for 2 months, until just before it’s due.
      High: A few other stalled project deliverables are finally clearing roadblocks!

    5. Becca*

      High: I took on the task of finding prospective instructors for the summer program I help run, and I found two awesome candidates, one of whom has a sibling with the condition our program caters to! Huzzah! (Best part is that they both work in the same town the programming director lives, so they’re both getting interviewed next week :) )

      Low: I continue to end up with work that other people are responsible for, by dint of being a fast worker, actually reliable, and not insanely busy. At this point, I’m taking all our meeting minutes (I’m not the secretary), I’m trying to get our processes and in-house positions explained in writing by the people responsible for them (I’m not the project manager), and now I’m meeting with the treasurer to go over programming costs (I’m not the programming director). Ahh!

    6. Sibyl de Neufmarché*

      Low point – Not for the first time having to tell an 80 + year old volunteer not to use a highly offensive and racist phrase.
      High point – Remembering that I only have three weeks before I’m my own boss, and can wave goodbye to bigoted volunteers I’m not allowed to properly manage.

    7. Good Week!*

      High: got my annual performance evaluation. Top scores, which means I’ll get the maximum bonus amount.
      Extra high: my workplace does bonuses based on years of service. Last year was the first year I qualified, but I forgot about it and it somehow got overlooked. During my eval meeting, it came up, so I followed up on it. It’s going to be on my next check (and of course I’ll still get this year’s anniversary bonus at the appropriate time).
      Low: the week after a three-day weekend (Memorial Day in the U.S.) is eternally long.

    8. Parenthetically*

      High: summer vacation has started! Got my grades finalized, finished up a few parent communication things, and now I’m ready to do things like reading for fun! and working on summer projects! And we’re leaving tomorrow on our big road trip/babymoon, which I’m so excited about.

      Low: my freaking hips and lower back are KILLING me. 11 more weeks of this. The kid better be cute! ;) I have a couple massage gift cards but I’m saving them until after the road trip, so in the meantime I just have to get up and walk around a couple times in the night, which is going to be really interesting when we’re camping next week.

    9. New Bee*

      High: I’ve gotten to put so many AAM learnings into practice this week: I coached my sister on interview questions, helped a friend figure out how to complete an interview task that looks like “do a significant portion of the job for free before we hire you”, and pointed out my job was late (per CA law) on my final check and owes me a penalty, which they agreed to pay.

      Low: Much of the separation process since I gave notice to this job has been annoying, but having to point out that their written material on final paycheck violates labor law was especially disappointing. I think they assumed people wouldn’t notice or question, and while I’m fortunate to not live paycheck to paycheck, I know there are folks that do, and they are ostensibly who our org is designed to serve. Boo, poor labor practices!

    10. Nervous Accountant*

      High–manager asks me to look over his emails and gave me a small writing project. I now have another small writing project–he told me our bosses loved it. Helped out a coworker w something and he said thanks.

      Low–the thing I wrote above wrt to another cw.

  41. Organized Chaos*

    How do you refer to candidates during an interview? “You would be responsible for x, y, z.” or “The person in this position would be responsible for “x, y, z.”
    I wouldn’t say anything long winded like “You, should you be hired for this position…”

    2. Grits McGee*

      What about “This position is responsible for x,y,z” or “Our teapot spout designers are responsible for x,y,z?

    3. Definitely Anon*

      I think that the first phrasing is the one I have heard most often. The “should you be hired” is implied. Would is a conditional statement.

      1. stuff happens*

        Yes, I remember an LW who said that they assumed they would get the job because the interviewers kept saying “you would be doing X” and Allison saying that was just a normal and acceptable way to phrase things in an interview.

        1. Definitely Anon*

          I would just avoid saying “will”. “You will be doing X” sends a different message than “you would be doing X”.

    4. fposte*

      There are enough people who take “You will” or “You would” to be a statement that they’re getting the job that I try really, really hard not to use either of them. It’s very difficult to avoid completely because you’re talking to a “you.” If you have other people in similar positions, sometimes you can use them as examples (“Jane the teapot artist goes to fourteen meetings a week and makes one teapot a year, which is about average here because we suck”).

  42. Ms. Meow*

    How do you re-energize yourself after long meetings? We’re in a transition period at my job right now, so we’re having more and longer meetings than usual. When I get back to my desk after, I feel tired and grumpy. Any tips on getting refocused and feeling better?

    1. Lindsey*

      Take a ten minute walk and drink some water. I also find it helps to have a quick chat with a colleague about non-work related stuff to kind of de-fuzz my brain.

    2. k*

      I find that stretching helps get me back into focus mode. Just at the desk, stretch out my arms, a couple neck rolls, nothing intense.

    4. LibKae*

      For the refocused aspect, what I find is helpful is to keep a list of things I need to do (seems ridiculously obvious, I know, but it really helps me come back to center after a meeting). I found with paper lists that I’d spend too much time trying to read around the crossed off things or transcribing old lists into new ones, so I use Trello. It’s been a sanity saver. I keep it permanently open in my browser and when I find myself spinning my wheels after a meeting it’s easy to go to and grab something to do (also keeps me from having to remember all of the zillion things that need to be done each day)

  43. Not Karen*

    (This is commute-related, so I think it’s work related enough…)

    How far away from the bus stop would you be willing to live? In a place that experiences weather extremes? I have to take the bus to work because my office is downtown and does not have parking. I’m moving house and looking at a place that is 0.6 mi (~15 min walk) to the nearest bus stop. The time spent on the bus is only ~6 min. On the other end it would drop me off only 1/2 block from the building. My current place is 0.4 mi (~10 min) to the bus stop followed by 16 min on the bus and another 0.2 to the office once I get downtown.

    Typing it out, it sounds like not a big deal…

    1. SophieChotek*

      15 minutes can be a long walk in freezing bitter cold and bitter wind! (And then add that to having to wait for the bus etc.) Ditto for having to walk in torrential rans or blazing heat. I mean it’s one thing if you’re just getting the bus to get groceries but another to go to work. I mean 15 minutes it’s that big huge (half mile?), but I can walk to my local Target from where I live and I don’t bother if its raining or super hot or freezing cold, if that makes any sense. But when its none of those things, I make myself walk instead of drive.

    2. stuff happens*

      I live in the Twin Cities and work downtown. I walk a total of about 0.7 miles each day in addition to the bus and even in bad winter weather it is not too bad as long as I dress for it. (Of course we have the added benefit that all streets have sidewalks and are required to be cleared, so I’m not usually actually walking in 4ft of snow!) It sounds like your total walking time isn’t actually going up, it’s just going to be all at once and your commute will be shorter overall, which is always nice.

    3. Emi.*

      I live about 15 minutes away from my train station, and I got through the cold just fine. (I haven’t done summer yet.) I wouldn’t consider that a big deal!

      YMMV but I recommend that you get a coat heavy enough to keep you warm as the only layer over your clothes. I almost always opened my coat on the walk, because walking so fast would make me sweaty otherwise. I didn’t actually have a warm enough coat to do on its own, so I had at least one sweater functioning as a coat liner, and un- and re-zipping multiple layers was a PAIN.

    4. LazyGirl*

      I live in Minnesota and honestly think this would be OK most of the time assuming you have appropriate clothing. Do you have the ability to drive and park closer to the stop or to take an earlier or later bus if there is a thunderstorm?

      A six minute bus ride would be totally worth the little extra walking for me!

      1. Not Karen*

        It looks like I might be able to drive most of the way down the street and park on the side of the road; I’ll have to take a look at the parking signs. In a snowstorm I’m not sure it’s worth starting up the car and driving in the snow for that though…

        1. S-Mart*

          In a snowstorm your street parking options might be limited or nonexistant, too. Many municipalities ban parking on one or sometimes both sides of the street during snow storms.

        2. TL -*

          Plus if it’s not safe to walk in a snowstorm, it’s probably not safe to drive. (And just because it’s safe to walk doesn’t mean it’s safe to drive.)
          But most places are reasonable about not coming in during a snowstorm. I always do if the T is running, because I love walking in the snow, but my boss always says to take the day if it’s bad and a couple of my coworkers do, especially those that live on bus routes.

    5. Teapot Librarian*

      Personally, I feel like there isn’t that much difference between 10 and 15 minutes once the weather is extreme enough to make me unhappy being out in it. Obviously YMMV.

    6. Hapless Bureaucrat*

      It’s a pretty individual question. The thing about walking time is it isn’t just the time. I’m carrying bags, I need my work clothes to stay clean (or I’m exhausted at the end of the day), etc etc. It’s complicated walking. My bus stop is at the end of my block, or I can go a half mile to another route for a more efficient bus schedule. I’ve noticed I never choose the longer route even though it cuts down my transfer time. My biggest no, though, would be relying on a route that comes only every half hour or hour or only at rush hour, but I know a lot of people who use those to commute.

      1. Not Karen*

        Yeah if it’s just me (no bags) a 2-3 mile walk can be just fine.

        All the bus routes in my small city are every half hour or hour so that’s not really a point of contention.

    7. Elizabeth West*

      Wow that’s awesome. I can walk to a bus stop in something like three minutes from my house (I go by it on my walk every day) but the rides take upward of an hour and a half. If I didn’t have a car here, I’d be screwed. It sounds like you’re just switching the bus-ride time and the walking time. If you have good outerwear, it shouldn’t be a big issue (I don’t know what the weather is like where you live).

    8. NoNameYet*

      Only downside to adding walking time is that you will feel extreme weather more. Which is usually bearable, just make sure you have some kind of backup plan for when it isn’t. You might already! Just thought I’d throw that out there. I learned this the hard way one winter a couple years ago. I had a 20 minute walk to work, no bus option. That was great until we had a string of days with -30 to -40 degree wind chill (yeah, Michigan weather!). I ended up relying on my boss to pick me up a couple days… awkward.

    9. katamia*

      Not far at all. If I lived in a very warm place, I’d be willing to live maybe a 15-minute walk away (how far away I lived from the train station for one of my jobs, and it was annoying but fine), but I have some joint issues that make it very hard for me to walk in snow, and at this point in time I just refuse to do it. The bus stop would have to basically be right in front of my house/apartment for me to be comfortable doing that.

    10. Lora*

      I’m in MA, not sure if that counts as weather extremes. Does the bus stop have a bike rack? I live about 1.5 miles from public transit, which I take every day, and I bike to the station so it’s about 10 minutes. In horrible terrible weather I carpool with someone who lives near me and goes to work right down the road: I make him a breakfast bagel sandwich, he drops me off. After the train I have 2 blocks of walking to the office. That said, my employers have always been pretty cool about “hey, the weather is garbage out, I’m working from home today” too.

      How much do you want to pay for a fancy jacket and boots? If you’re going to be in, say, Canada, you may wish to spend a good deal more on coat / hat / boots than I do; my generic-brand barn coat, leggings under my pants and galoshes with warm socks are good enough for me, and I change into proper shoes at the office.

      Also, I cannot say enough nice things about Uniqlo Heattech clothes. Those Heattech tights and leggings have saved my butt on days when it was OK in the morning but crummy in the evening. They are reasonably priced. They are warm as toast and dry quickly. They can be easily bundled up and crammed into a tote bag. They come in office-nice designs and neutral colors. I have a couple pairs of slacks, a zillion pairs of tights and leggings, and three undershirt sort of things that I wear under office sweaters and they look fairly professional. I have a down jacket from them that crams up into a little baggie for days when the weather turns, and I love it. The only danger is that I’m always warm, and then I start falling asleep, so I drink more caffeine.

    11. WhatTheFoxSays*

      If you live in an area that gets snow, do they shovel well? Does the thought of at least 5 extra minutes in weather you don’t like make you cringe? If it checks out ok in all that, go for it, but if it’ll make you unhappy it may be worth looking for an alternative, even if that’s uber on the days you just can’t deal with it.

    12. FluffyToodie*

      I have an odd job arrangement. Tuesday through Thursday I work in a different city, and I walk about 0.6 miles to and from work in all types of weather. I think your commute would be totally do-able if you have the right gear. In South Dakota, this means a super heavy duty parka for the worst days of winter, and a pair of crampons (studded things you can wear over your shoes) for the days when the sidewalks are very icy.

    13. a girl has no name*

      When I lived in Chicago, I had a 15 minute walk to the bus every day. I was usually fine as long as I dressed for the weather. In pouring rain it could get annoying at times, but it was bearable.

    14. Optimistic Prime*

      15 minutes is fine. I suppose it depends on what you mean by weather extremes. I lived in New York and in Pennsylvania, both places it can get cold and snowy, and in the case of PA I lived there the winter of the polar vortex (so it was frequently below freezing). A 15 minute walk was totally fine in the right clothes. Anything longer than 20 minutes started to get painful.

  44. Longtime listener, First time caller*

    I’ve just moved from an exempt position to a nonexempt position, meaning that if I work over 40 hours in a week, I get overtime. There have been a few occasions so far that I have worked a few hours over 40, but I have a hard time coding my time sheet for overtime pay because the reason why I’ve had to work a few hours over 40 is because of my own slacking during the regular work week.
    My mindset is that if I had just been more productive, I wouldn’t need to work some overtime, so I don’t bill it. Curious if anyone else sees it this way too.

    1. Fictional Butt*

      If you work over 40 hours in a week, you MUST report it. Otherwise you are creating a liability, because your employer is in violation of the law for not paying you overtime.

      Whether or not you are slacking is not relevant. Everyone slacks occasionally. If your company thinks you are slacking too much, they should address it with you, but failing to pay you overtime is an inappropriate and illegal way to address it and you should not make that choice for them.

      1. Fictional Butt*

        (And because I feel my answer sounds harsh… I would totally feel the same way you do. I’m glad I have never worked in a professional non-exempt position because I would totally feel guilty billing overtime. But it’s a pretty hard-and-fast rule.)

      2. Elizabeth West*

        This. Always report it–if you don’t and they find out you’re working without pay, they can get in big trouble. They could fire you over that because it’s a huge liability for them. I imagine they’d probably first warn you strongly not to do it again, but I wouldn’t want to take the chance.

      3. Fictional Butt*

        And another thing I forgot to mention (sorry I keep replying to myself!)–do you have permission to work overtime? If you work overtime you have to bill it, whether you have permission or not, but if your boss doesn’t expect you to work more than 40 hours a week then you might get in trouble (as Elizabeth mentioned). You should probably ask your boss what her expectations regarding overtime are (with the understanding that if she doesn’t want you to work overtime, that means you don’t work overtime, not that you don’t report it).

    2. Hapless Bureaucrat*

      You’re still using a salaried employee mindset in what’s now essentially an hourly position. “Work until the job is done” is appropriate for a salaried job, but now your metric should be “work 40 hours unless pre-arranged with the boss.” It’s a hard switch to make mentally, and even harder if the job isn’t really set up with those expectations in mind.
      As commenters below point out, though, you have to bill for hours worked.
      If you haven’t, it may help to talk to your boss about what they expect you to accomplish within a 40 hour week and when they expect overtime, so that you redefine what you’re using to judge your progress (and what’s “slacking” or not).

      1. Hapless Bureaucrat*

        And by “commenters below” I mean “commenters above.” Friday has stolen my brain.

  45. Lyrasoxford*

    Hi Alison! when you say “If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue” what does “recently” mean?
    If I sent in a question mid-April, should I hold off on posting here, or is that long enough ago that I should repost? Thanks!

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Mid-April is long enough ago that I don’t expect you to wait for me. It’s still possible I could have it in my to-answer queue but I’d certainly understand at that point if you’d rather post it here instead. (You can also feel free to email me and ask if you want!)

  46. Fabulous*

    Possibly not work-related but it sort of is… What do people do about their jobs when they’re in a committed relationship wanting to move to the next level, but their SO lives an hour away?

    My situation is that he lives/works about an hour away from my house, and I work 30 minutes in the complete opposite direction. If he moves in with me, he’ll have a 60 minute trek to work, if I move in with him, I’d have a 1.5 hour commute. My job is still semi-new and I’d prefer to stay where I’m at because it’s got great benefits and it’s been a while since I’ve been in a job for over a year. I started as a temp May 2016 but was only hired on full-time in October. He’s been at his job for 3 years, but he’s got another two years to go before vesting.

    So, what have other people done in this type of situation? How do you consolidate lives?

    1. Maybe We Can*

      Decide whether the other one is worth a 45 minute commute. If you can’t work this out together and accommodate each other’s needs, then it’s probably not right in the long run.

      1. Fabulous*

        Thankfully it’s not really a matter of whether we want to – we do – it’s just a matter of what to do until we can purchase something together at the halfway point.

        1. AnonAcademic*

          My husband and I lived an hour apart for 3 years while I finished school. After graduation we moved as close to the halfway point between My City and His City as we could manage. Would it be possible for you to rent something at a midway point for a while while renting out your house and see how that works out? In general the more you can try different things temporarily to see what works the better off you’ll be, I think. It’s hard to say how bad a commute will feel till you’re actually doing it, you know?

    2. Amber Rose*

      I guess the question I have is, is an hour commute that bad? I don’t even live in a big city, just a moderate one, and my commute is about an hour with traffic, because that’s just how it works in the city. It’d be a friggin miracle to find work in the same part of the city I live in, and I always wonder where people live that it’s a given that they would. I know it would suck compared to what you have now, but how bad would it really be?

      My best friend works in a mine in one place, her fiance in another, and her family is here, the third place. Also mining work keeps her in camps for three or four weeks at a time. She’s OK with only seeing him a couple weeks every now and then (goes back and forth between visits to him and visits here) and maintains three living spaces. Now that… is tough.

      1. Ange*

        I guess the question I have is, is an hour commute that bad? I don’t even live in a big city, just a moderate one, and my commute is about an hour with traffic, because that’s just how it works in the city. It’d be a friggin miracle to find work in the same part of the city I live in, and I always wonder where people live that it’s a given that they would
        I always wonder this too! I live in London, UK and while I have occasionally managed to live in walking distance of my work, it’s far more common not to. And when I finally bought a home, there was no chance of being anywhere close to where I work. I have a 45 minute commute on the tube, or 1 hr 30 on the bus (my preferred option) and my commute is one of the shorter in my department.

        1. Fabulous*

          Dang! I’m in a Metro area now, but even when I lived and worked in a big city (Chicago) I was able to have around a 30-45 minute commute most days with traffic. Up to an hour and a half on the worst of days.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          Haha, I tried taking the tube several times at peak time on purpose last visit, to see if I could handle it if I lived there. Once, from Canary Wharf all the way to Richmond Station.

          The answer is yes, I could, but it gave a whole new meaning to the term “packed like sardines in a tin.” Anybody with a space bubble problem would probably just die.

            1. Treecat*

              Yup. My best friend commutes from Surrey into central London every day, I don’t know how she does it. She’s out on maternity leave right now and says she has so much more energy now that she’s not commuting, even with a 6 week old baby.

          2. Ramona Flowers*

            If you went from Canary Wharf you must have been on the Jubilee line. It gets pretty sardines-y in the mornings.

      2. krysb*

        I live in a rural area about 60 miles from work in Nashville. My 1 hour, 15 minute commute is better than when I lived 38 miles from work, which averaged between 1.5 and 2 hours. I would totally move closer if it wasn’t so much more expensive.

    3. MechanicalPencil*

      I have a similar conundrum. The SO is looking at purchasing a place that’s close to the kids’ school/life and conveniently near his office. For me, should we move in together, it’s a 40 minute train ride and at least an hour commute (on a really good day). And most of my life is centered a 20-30 minute drive away (ah, metro areas), so I would very much be moving for him. Still haven’t decided how I feel about that.

      1. Fabulous*

        It’s definitely a huge consideration! From my house, he lives an hour south, my work is 30 minutes east, my parents are 30 minutes north, his parents are 30 minutes west. It’s all Metro but there’s no public transport, and traffic is worse in my area than his by far (he’s in the country.)

    4. Emilia Bedelia*

      Also take into consideration whether one of you can work from home occasionally or flex hours to accommodate traffic. If you would have a 1.5 hour commute twice a week, versus him having a 60 minute commute 5 days a week, or if his 60 minute commute would stretch to 2 hours with traffic with no option to change his hours, that may change your calculus.

      Or, consider if public transport would be an option- it may increase the time of your commute, but it may be more tolerable if you’re able to work or do other things during that time.

      1. Fabulous*

        I’m in a Metro area but there is no public transport available. He lives and works out in the country so it wouldn’t be an option for him regardless.

        We’ve been thinking he’s going to move in with me, or at least stay with me for extended periods. Since he works 12 hour shifts, he only goes in 3-4 days a week, whereas I work 8-hour shifts 5 days a week. The only caveat being that with an hour commute for him, he’d then have 14+ hour days, plus any additional meetings he needs to attend on his days off.

        Whenever we do decide to get married we can at least buy a house together at the midway point! Too bad I just closed on my house in October LOL (put in the offer the same day as our first date – talk about serendipity!)

    5. Zathras*

      I don’t have much experience with this, but since it sounds like you own your place, I guess renting at the midway point is out? Does he own his place?

      If there’s no pressure for either of you to decide anything right away housing wise, why not have an extended trial period for both places? You stay with him for 2 weeks, he stays with you for 2 weeks, and you get some real data on just how much you hate each commute. Maybe one of you discovers that the commute is long but not stressful, and you don’t mind it. The points above about considering who has a more flexible schedule/work from home options is good too.

      I see you updated below about his work schedule – what about if he mostly moved in with you, but rented a small cheap room close to work, so that if he was working a few days in a row he would not have to drive in between? I assume there is some motivation to not pay for 2 full housing situations here.

  47. Amber Rose*

    Door Wars! Not as exciting as the star kind. We work in an old commercial condo building that used to be 5 units (owners knocked the walls down when they bought the place out), so airflow is always a problem. One bay could freeze while the one next door cooks.

    My cube contains one of many doors to the outside. My neighbor bitches constantly about me not wanting to open it up. I understand the breeze helps it not be a stifling oven, but on the other hand, it knocks all my papers around and all the bees fly in. Also people wander in and out. Also literally every other door is open, does it change THAT much?

    Am I being unreasonable? Or am I being influenced by being at BEC stage, since this is the same coworker we all agreed was acting like a literal 4 year old, and who gave me cause to skip lunch yesterday by detailing how an old girlfriend used to pop all his blackheads.

    1. Definitely Anon*

      Can you offer to switch cubicles with the coworker that wants the door open? Then they can deal with the inconvenience of having the door open if it is really that important.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Unfortunately no. My cubicle is twice the size of his and stuffed literally to bursting with the stuff I need to do my job.

    2. Pineapple Incident*

      Unfortunately I don’t have any advice, but I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. I think the papers and bees alone are enough reason to vote ‘no’ on the door being open. Could your office-mate get a small personal fan to help with the stifling-ness of the bay you work in?

      1. Amber Rose*

        He can have mine! I have a little desktop one. I don’t know if he wants it though.

      2. LibKae*

        Ditto on this — I feel like any situation that is described by the phrase “and all the bees fly in” is not one you’re required to tolerate

    3. krysb*

      Have you thought about paperweights and one of those attach-to-the-doorway screens to keep out the buggies?

    5. curmudgeon*

      could you get a screen for the door for the bees issue & then a cube wall or privacy screen set up so the breeze stops ruffling the papers?

    6. Ashie*

      I’m an all-open-windows-all-the-time kind of person and even I don’t think you’re being unreasonable.

  48. Windy City Wendy*

    I don’t know if it’s me or the industry I’m in, but when I went on interviews in a large city in the Midwest, the people were very competitive, catty, and clique-y. One company was a position for an admin. assistant role and I would be working with engineers. At first they seemed nice, but then they were pointing and laughing at things on my resume and making sarcastic comments- I’m glad I didn’t get it, but it sucked. Another role was for an Information Assistant at a public library and the supervisor seemed very uptight and frustrated. He would make these grunts and annoyed sighs when I would answer questions. Glad I didn’t get that role.

    In the end, I’m glad that I didn’t get these positions, but I don’t know if it was them or me? Do I need a thicker skin?

    1. Pineapple Incident*

      That’s them- regardless of what they may think of things on your resume, no interviewer has the right to literally point and laugh at you and your experience (unless you’ve told some kind of joke).

      This is not your problem- just happens that you’ve been invited to interviews with some very untactful bad apples

    2. Emily*

      No, it’s not just you – those interviewers (especially the people laughing at things on your resume in front of you) sound really rude.

    3. fposte*

      The resume thing is kind of mind-blowing–can you give an example of what they were laughing at? You didn’t have a line about your experience as a circus clown?

      1. Anon in a toxic place*

        I was answering a question from another team member, and as I was making eye contact, I saw them point to something on my resume and start laughing. When they noticed me looking at them, they stopped. The head boss was constantly entering/leaving the room and questioned my degrees and basically dismissed me right then and there. I don’t even know why I was called in.

    4. JulieBulie*

      It was them. And if it makes you feel any better, I’ve never been offered a job in any place where I got a bad vibe, so I never had to worry about whether or not to take a job I didn’t want. Hopefully you’ll never have to weigh an offer from a company where people are disrespectful right out of the gate.

      I don’t know if you need thicker skin or not. Thicker skin won’t actually stop people from acting like jerks. And even if you do get thicker skin, you’d probably rather work for someone who respects you. I mean, you may end up with jerky coworkers regardless, but it’s really important to have a decent supervisor, which is presumably who you’re interviewing with.

  49. pmac*

    My job offers tuition reimbursement for relevant courses after 9 months and I am now just past that mark (woohoo!). I’m very interested in getting more education about the finance and advancement services sides of nonprofits. How should I research what kind of programs there are? I’m thinking some kind of certificate instead of a full grad degree but am unsure of where to start. Any advice?

    1. Lindsey*

      Would love to know what people think of this! Does your company have a limit on how much they’ll reimburse for continuing education?

      I’ve seen a couple of PGDip courses, but not sure if those are actually looked on favorably…

    3. Amber Rose*

      Any coworkers who have been around a long time who can point you in the right direction?

    4. Tuckerman*

      Can you discuss your manager as part of a larger professional development or goal setting conversation?

    5. Professor Ronny*

      My biased opinion is to get the degree. If you change jobs/fields, the degree will stay with you better than a certificate. If you’re getting a graduate degree in a business-related area, look for AACSB accreditation for the business department/school/college.

  50. SaviourSelf*

    I posted a month or so ago about looking for a job so I could relocate out West. I’m currently in an East Coast metro area and don’t love the metro area but don’t really strongly dislike it either. It was also motivated by being bored with my current job and seeing no possible movement within the organization. There had been a lot of conversations about my boss and grandboss wanting me to take on more and bigger assignments and a larger role in the organization but it had only been lip-service.

    Well…my boss came to me a couple of weeks ago to tell me she was planning to retire by year end and wanted to discuss me moving into her position. Many conversations later, we agreed upon a job description and pay increase along with a timeline for the transition. I’m excited about the new possibility but also feel like I’ve given up on my dream to move.

    I know staying with my current company but moving up into a C-level position is good for my resume both for longevity and seniority but it is hard to reconcile with staying where I am. In the long term, it will make moving easier, but in the short term I am still where I have been.

    How do you reconcile putting moving plans (that you’ve wanted to do for YEARS) on hold for a better career opportunity?

    1. Christy*

      So, my wife and I really intended to move out of the DC area. As soon as she found a job in another metro area we wanted to live in (Kansas City, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, etc) we were going to move. (My office allows me to relocate easily, but only when following a partner. It’s harder to spontaneously move.) And long story short, my wife got a job in DC and so we are staying here. We tried, yes, but we didn’t have a strict timeline or a drop-dead date. We’d been talking about it for years.

      On the other hand, my friend and personal trainer moved to Denver after about a year of planning. He busted his butt to get a job there, she quit hers, and now they live in Denver. She’s back in school there.

      I think what I’m saying is, if it’s been years and you still haven’t made the move, you probably weren’t going to end up making the move. Stagnation is real! It’s hard to move across the country. And if it’s been years of planning without much doing or much success at doing, then it probably isn’t going to happen anyway.

      I hope this doesn’t feel too harsh! I got sucked in by stagnation too. It’s nice, though, to know you’re staying put for a while when you hadn’t intended on it. My wife and I just bought a condo (like, yesterday) since we know we’re in the area for a while. We hadn’t even been looking before her new job.

      1. SaviourSelf*

        Congrats on the condo!

        I totally agree on the stagnation part. My situation isn’t quite the same in that I wasn’t actually able to move before but all the pieces fell into place recently where I actually could make the move and had been actively interviewing, etc. in the desired new location. I agree though, apparently the timing wasn’t as perfect as I’d built it up to be in my time and I am looking forward to what I can learn and do while staying with my current company. This will be the first time I’ve stayed somewhere longer than 4 years. As a commitment-phobe, it is already feeling like a lifetime!

        1. Christy*

          I empathize! I’ve been with my employer for 9 years this month. It’s my entire adult working life. Luckily, I’ve been in various departments and progressed substantially in that time. But it sure feels like a long time.

    2. Tuckerman*

      I think it depends on why you want to move. I’m relocating because housing is extremely expensive in my area, and my husband and I want to move somewhere affordable before we have kids. In my case, I see moving as a necessary step to accomplish other goals.
      If we were not planning on having kids, we’d probably still want to move, but we’d be more flexible with a timeline. Also, whether you’re moving to or from an expensive location makes a difference. It’s easier to move from, say, San Francisco to Detroit than from Detroit to San Francisco.

    3. Sunflower*

      Ouch. Just wanna say I feel your pain. I’ve been wanting to move to new city for a while but was scared to take the plunge. Finally got up the courage to ask my company, thought they would say yes…and I got a big fat no. I had gotten myself totally comfortable with moving and taking the plunge and now I’m like…sooooo my future?

      Just remember you’re in a job, not a marriage. You are not set in this place forever just because you’ve accepted a job! You can plan for the future but you can’t predict it. Who knows- you could start this job and find out you hate it or aren’t good at it. Right now it’s so easy to grasp at the ‘what could have been’ but that could still be. Stay with the new job at least 6 months. If you’re still getting pangs of wanting to move, it’s okay to start exploring that again. Don’t feel like you’ve just dug yourself into a hole.

  51. Pup Seal*

    All I just have to say is I’m glad my supervisor is a big animal person like me. I came late this morning because my dog attacked a baby (healthy) raccoon and I spent half an hour making sure both dog and baby raccoon were okay. Supervisor was super understanding.

    1. Catalyst*

      Oh no! That sounds terrible. I am glad your boss understood and the animals were ok.

      1. Pup Seal*

        Luckily it wasn’t too bad. My dog just grabbed it, and he let it go when I yelled at him. He’s also a small dog. I stayed around for the baby raccoon because its mother wasn’t around and I was concerned for it. I googled baby raccoons and learned that babies will sometimes go out and play during the day as mommy sleeps, so I left when I thought it would be okay.

    2. hermit crab*

      I thought you were going to say that your dog attacked a baby (like, a random human baby out on the sidewalk or something)! I’m glad that is not the case and that both dog and raccoon are OK.

    3. Ashie*

      Aww! Glad everyone’s OK. Fellow animal person here, and former animal control officer. Keep a very close eye on your dog for the next week or so, and if she breaks anyone’s skin with a bite or a scratch within the next 10 days (the rabies transfer period in dogs & cats) you need to report it to the health department. Rabies is fatal in humans if it’s not treated, don’t take the chance.

  52. Catalyst*

    Mini rant: I’m working on an 8 week long group project for a course I need for my designation. It is incredibly frustrating working with other people and I am finding it so stressful! I am in charge of collecting everyone’s work and making sure everything looks like one person wrote it, which I am fine with, but some people just can not seem to follow instructions and can’t show up on time which is grating on my last nerve. I probably wouldn’t be so stressed out about it if I didn’t have so much going on at work on top of this. (short staffed and someone with what I consider major performance issues). Ok, that is all, I just really needed to complain.
    Happy weekend everyone!

    1. GOG11*

      I remember reading on here at some point that group work is so frustrating because you have no real authority over your group members but you still have to suffer the consequences of their bad behavior. It’s always stuck with me because people like to compare academic group projects to team work in the work world and they are not at all the same. I don’t blame you for being frustrated! I hope you have a great weekend despite it.

      1. Catalyst*

        Thanks! I have never thought about it that way, but having read this, it is a bang on description in all aspects of why we feel the way we do about group work.

    2. Tomato Frog*

      Ugh, my last assignment in grad school was exactly this — except that I had given myself the job of making the paper sound like one person wrote it because clearly no one else was trying to match anyone else’s voice or tone or had any concept of professional writing. I developed a healthy contempt for everyone involved even though they were all perfectly nice people, just because they were clearly all phoning it in. I remember editing the whole damn thing in the middle of a long Megabus trip when I was exhausted and feeling sick. The only good thing about projects like this is that they end. Every now and then, when I’m stressed out and life seems to be more than I can handle, I will reach deep down inside me to find some still center and the words will come: “At least I’m not in school working on a group project.”

      1. periwinkle*

        That’s a very helpful mantra! I had done group projects for my first grad degree but had not anticipated being stuck with any for my second – so finding out that my very last course was centered around a group project was a bit of a shock. Naturally, my team mates were a student early in the program who didn’t think he had enough knowledge to contribute, a fellow final-semester student who showed up late and did almost nothing, an early-program student who worked his hindquarters off but was already stretched thin for time, and me. I ended up writing about 50% of the second deliverable and 85% of the final deliverable because I was not about to lose my 4.0 GPA to a damn group project.

        And around the same time, I started working on an employee development program for project managers in our organization. One of their key issues is the problem of having responsibility and accountability for team performance but no authority over the team. Oh, boy, could I ever emphasize with the project managers…

      2. Catalyst*

        “I developed a healthy contempt for everyone involved even though they were all perfectly nice people, just because they were clearly all phoning it in”. This is totally how I feel. But you are right, there is an end date so at least you know you aren’t stuck in the situation forever. :)

  53. Nickel and Dimed by ADP*

    Are there any other non-exempts out there who have to clock in and out using ADP? I had an issue pop up that I’ve been pondering for a while.

    Background: I work a standard 40 hour week in the US, I’m non-exempt, and it’s an office job, nothing customer facing. I work from 8 AM to 4:30 PM with a 30 minute unpaid lunch break. We have to clock in, and then out for lunch, back in, and then back out at the end of the day.

    I always arrive about 10 minutes before start time so I can get into the building, boot my computer, grab a cup of tea, and put my lunch in the breakroom fridge, things like that, and be sitting down ready to start. I normally clock in about 5 minutes before my start time. I am vigilant about taking only 30 minutes for my unpaid break, and normally manage to click in and out with maybe a minute +/- leeway, like I might clock out at 12 PM and back in at 12:29 PM or 12:31 PM.

    ADP rounds the numbers back to the nearest quarter hour, but I ran into this situation recently. My supervisor sent me an email stating my time sheet was short by 15 minutes from the week before because I had taken a long lunch. At first I was puzzled, but then remembered one day a coworker stopped me on my way back to my desk with questions about a project we were working on, so I answered his questions, and clocked back in about 10 minutes past my 30 minute time. I didn’t think anything of it because my punches are always about 5 minutes extra in the morning.

    I apologized to my supervisor, and he fixed it, and reminded me to be more careful in the future.

    I’ve been sort of stewing about this all week. I am a good worker, I am on time every day, I don’t take advantage of the company’s time, and it seems like it’s OK not to pay me for 25 minutes each week, but if I stop on my way back to my desk, at someone else’s request for help, no less, I could get docked 1/4 hour. I guess I should tell my coworkers I need to go back to my desk to punch back in, then go back to that part of the building to help them (?) It seems so nickel and diming to me.

    Has anyone else run into this? Is there a way to adjust the program not to do this? My supervisor is very much a “butts in seats” guy, and comes from a factory background where time was very important due to an assembly line type environment, but this just isn’t the case. On the other hand, I realize I need to be paid for my work as an non-exempt worker.

    Thanks for letting me vent!

    1. Manders*

      I have a time clock that counts by the minute, and I always make sure to clock in as soon as I get into the office and tell people I need to clock back in after lunch if they try to stop me to have a work-related conversation. It does feel like nickel and diming, and I think you’re right to be annoyed, but all you can really do is make it clear when you need to clock in.

    2. CoordinatorSuperStar*

      I work in a similar atmosphere. I’m extremely impressed with your ability to keep such regular time! I’m always forgetting to clock in or out because of interruptions like the one you described. It is a hassle, and you’re right that it is very nickel and diming. In my opinion, this kind of clock-watching makes little sense in most offices, and makes more sense on factory floors. I regularly tell people to wait one minute for me to go clock in. It’s the true and responsible thing to do in this atmosphere and office where they take the time clock seriously. If they find it inconvenient that you have to do this, they can take it up with management. It’s not your choice. When management requires something tedious or illogical of me, I follow it as best I can and management faces the consequences. Hey, they asked for it. As for your specific instance of clocking in late, I would have explained to the supervisor that I was actually interrupted with work questions and that I was working during those lost minutes. Supervisors have the ability to contact payroll or HR and adjust a time sheet if there was an error.

      1. PayrollLady*

        Payroll person here, ADP sets up their rounding rules based on the company’s preference, and it can be changed but rarely is. The 7 minute rule is the most common, and I agree, it forces people to be clock watchers. It isn’t illegal however, as some have stated. It sucks, but it’s the cheapest and easiest solution to allow hourly employees a grace period without requiring the manager to constantly monitor timecards. In my experience, this is common for employers who are hyper aware of overtime.

    3. CoordinatorSuperStar*

      P.S. My advice for the next time this happens, immediately after clocking in go to your supervisor and explain what happened.

      1. Catalyst*

        I am not familiar with this type of work environment (mine is salary and I give my people leeway as they work really hard for me), it sucks that they are such sticklers about it. I agree with the above. If it happens again, clock in and email your supervisor right away. Especially if it’s a really big office or building, I can see how going back to your desk to clock in and going back to your co-worker might not make sense.

    4. CA Admin*

      When I worked retail and this would happen, you’d let your manager know immediately, so they could fix the punch right there and then. That said, those time clocks are only supposed to round if it goes both ways–down or up, depending on whichever is closer. They’re not allowed to only round to benefit the employer.

    5. Persephone Mulberry*

      We use ADP’s online timeclock and it punches to the exact minute, so it would seem to me that this has to be something your company set up with them, not something mandated by the software. Also, what CA Admin said – it shouldn’t only round back.

    6. Observer*

      If this happens, email him immediately when you get back to your desk to say that you wound up having to do some work before you got back to your desk, so could he please get the correct time in?

      We use a different electronic system. It lets you clock out even if you don’t clock in, which has the advantage of automatically alerting your supervisor that something is up with your time. It also allows you to put notes in, so if there is a reason that the time is incorrect, I’ll put the information in the notes and the the person who checks it can fix it.

    7. Observer*

      By the way, if the clock always rounds to the lower quarter of an hours, that’s not an ADP thing (although they shouldn’t allow it.) It’s your company and it’s illegal. They can only round it if it’s always to the nearest quarter hour, up or down.

    9. SaviourSelf*

      Agreed with the others. Payroll law allows for 7 minute rounding. As in, if you clock in at 7:07 it rounds to 7:00am but if you clock in at 7:08 it rounds to 7:15am. It has to round both ways to be legal. With improvements in technology, most companies simply pay by the minute and have done away with rounding.

      The whole system sounds overly rigid.

    10. Amy*

      It is nickle and diming (and pennying if there is such a thing).

      I work in a library but it is a city job.
      We punch a clock the same way you do, in, out for lunch, in for lunch, out.
      And it rounds up or down to the nearest quarter hour.
      BUT our employer has disciplinary procedures for punching in one minute late or out one minute early. This holds true for all non-exempt employees.

      As the others said, tell co workers “I have to punch in now” (we all know what this is about even though it feels odd) and if you miss a punch or are late, let the supervisor know right away.

    11. Anastasia Beaverhausen*

      I love the time clock! I’ve been in an industry the last ten years in which nearly everyone is nonexempt and punches the clock and it’s like I woke up and smelled roses the first time I was paid overtime. For twenty years I worked long hours making someone else rich. In my old, exempt, career I was dumped on and dumped on until I was working 12 hour days 6 days a week and felt guilty for taking a vacation despite ultimately being paid less than the receptionist if you broke it down. Or earlier on, when I was hourly – but did not punch a clock – and chided into staying 15-30 minutes a day to “finish up what you’re doing” when given the task just a minute or two before the end of the day. If I mentioned the extra time I was made to feel petty. Now I realize that an employer expecting me to work for free is just plain wrong. I see the time clock as serving me more than serving my employer. However – clocking mistakes do happen now and then and I just immediately email my boss and let her know what happened and to please make an adjustment.

  54. Trobii*

    I have a call set up next week with a hiring manager about “my background and interests” and possible current or future positions.

    What do I say about my interests if I’m not super passionate about the field/work, just really good at it and looking to move on from my current position which has no opportunities for growth and is frankly a worse environment to be in with every passing day?

  55. Newb*

    I’m usually a lurker and not a commenter, but I would love to get some advice from this wonderful group of commenters. (I think it’s the only place on the internet where it’s not frightening to read the comments).

    My former employer recently went out of business and I am searching for a new job. I had a phone interview two days ago with a smaller company and they have called me in for an interview on Tuesday. But I just set up two more interviews for later next week with larger companies. The smaller company seems to be very interested and moving very quickly (they have already asked me to fill out an application, and I’m already in their second round), and I know that the company sometimes gives on-the-spot offers.

    My question is: What do I do if the smaller company gives me an offer before I’m even able to interview at the other two places? The job at the smaller company isn’t my ideal role ( although I do like the manager a lot). The roles at the two larger companies are more interesting to me but, being large, are likely to move slower on an offer. I want to at least interview at all the places before accepting any offers to be able to see which of the jobs are the best fit for me, especially culture wise (which I can’t judge from a website and which can be hit or miss in large companies). And, of course,I want to get a feel for how likely an offer is at the other two (at the end of the day, I need a paying job).

    I know you don’t want to make a company feel like they are your back-up plan, but that’s not the case here. Is it okay to explain that I would like to go to all three interviews first before deciding on an offer, or does that make the company feel like it’s second fiddle?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Look at it this way – most companies are going to interview several people before choosing the best fit for the position. You wanting to go on several interviews before accepting is perfectly reasonable.

      You can simply tell them that you need a few days to consider the offer and will respond by [insert deadline here].

    2. Fabulous*

      I’d just say you have a couple more interviews lined up. They should understand the reasons you’d want to keep them. If they want you to drop everything for them that minute, I’d probably take that as a potential red flag of how they treat their employees…

    4. Student*

      No, you can’t have your cake and eat it, too.

      Putting their job offer on hold does inherently have a risk of you getting passed up as they move on. If you think the bigger company is a better choice, then the small company is actually your second choice. There’s a chance they’ll give you time to decide, and a chance they won’t – you can’t get out of taking that risk should you tell them you need some time. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take the risk if you think the bigger company is a better fit for you, but you can’t really just talk yourself into believing this risk isn’t there – it is.

      The shorter your requested delay, the more likely they will be to keep the spot open for you. One week is pretty normal. Two weeks is reasonable, but may come off as playing for time. Longer than that sounds like you aren’t into them, which is the truth, no matter how much you’d like them not to realize it.

  56. over educated*

    Latest dispatch from the “moving on” diaries:

    I did apply for the job I was so excited/nervous about that just reading the listing made me sick to my stomach. I found the listing last Wednesday, finished and sent my application on Monday (spent a couple days procrastinating, then a couple days tweaking my resume and cover letter). Tuesday I was anxious and frustrated that they didn’t call immediately for an interview and help me fulfill my fantasy. It’s now Friday and no word. I know that’s normal, I usually don’t worry about not getting a job until a month has passed, but…I just wanted them to read my application and say “SHE’S PERFECT!” with the same urgency I felt about finding the listing. Also, my spouse is interviewing actively and will be making career decisions very soon that will make it much harder to move for the job than it would be now. Sigh.

    My current organization’s dismal funding situation at least means that I’m starting to have somewhat frank one-on-one conversations with various staff about what to do when my term ends. It’s pretty obvious there won’t be money to hire me on here, but at least I don’t have to keep the fact that I’m looking secret.

    The frustrating thing is that I’m on a non-renewable grant…and my supervisors are talking to another department on how to apply for a person through this grant because there’s no funding to actually hire employees…but I wouldn’t be eligible to move into that position because you can only receive the grant once. I know it’s what they have to do right now but it also just stinks that the staffing model has become so reliant on non-employees with no benefits or job security (not just me, but in general).

    1. SophieChotek*

      I’m sorry! I’m not in your boat, but I have several friends (and my mom’s husband) whose jobs are all dependent on grant funding, so I know it’s stressful (just from listening to them).

      All the best!

      1. over educated*

        Thanks. I really do appreciate the good wishes. Best of luck to your friends and mom’s husband too.

    2. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      If it makes you feel any better, I saw the posting for my DreamJob on a Tuesday night in early June and the application closed on Thursday. I didn’t even have an updated resume! And it was the first time I used a cover letter. I hand delivered my package to HR to make the deadline and then… nothing. At the end of August I received a random phone call asking if I was still interested. I had a phone interview in early September. 2.5 weeks later I was contacted for an in person interview. I waited another 2-3 weeks for an offer and FINALLY started the job at the end of October.

      When DreamJob ended up being not so Dreamy, I was approached by another department for an opening they had. Job closed at end of July. After interviews and such, I officially started mid November. Apparently that’s just the typical time frame.

      It can be so excited when such a perfect opportunity lands in your lap, but the patience will be worth it.

  57. Anony Mouse*

    I’m in a situation a little bit like OP #5 from today’s “Five Answers to Five Questions.” I had an in-person interview this week that I thought went very well. At the end, I asked about next steps, and the interviewer told me that they’ll be scheduling second interviews for next week. I had to tell her that next week is the busiest week of the year in my current position: I have to be at work from 7 a.m.-6 p.m. every day (no lunch breaks). I might be able to get away early on Friday afternoon, but it’s impossible for me to leave the office at any other time.

    I know that if they really want me, it’ll work out. Still, I can’t help feeling guilty that I can’t be more flexible with my schedule. I’m the primary person responsible for running this week-long event at my current job, and if I were to be absent for anything other than near-death illness, I’d be fired.

  58. GOG11*

    Happy Friday, all! I was approved for intermittent medical leave this week. I’ve been struggling with a few chronic conditions for quite a while now, but I always prioritized work, to the point of delaying treatments. Having FMLA approval makes me feel better about taking time, but I’m still struggling with it. It’s currently our slow season and my bosses and colleagues are wonderful. I’m usually a star employee, and lately I’ve been between pretty good or even great (according to feedback from others around me…I’d say I’m doing a good job, but not great), and I think not performing at my former level (took on extra assignments, got things done very quickly without sacrificing quality…overall just juggled a lot fairly seemlessly) is messing with my head. I also used to work with a couple of coworkers here who were very unreasonable and I think that has skewed my perceptions.

    I’d love to hear others’ experiences with FMLA and tips for finding a good balance (and feeling okay with taking the time you need away). Basically any advice regarding FMLA would be awesome.

    1. fposte*

      GOG11, I remember that you’ve had health stuff going on for quite a while, so I’m really glad you’ve gone ahead and committed to FMLA.

      I don’t know if you’ve planned any particular schedule; for me, when I took it post-surgically, it was about energy levels, so I left a couple of hours early pretty much every day. You might factor in what your office pattern tends to be in the slow season, too, to maximize your availability to others; if half the office is out Fridays anyway, that’s a way to give your week a haircut without being too much of a pain. Consider whether transport should be figured in–I should have been able to get disabled parking but they blew it, so I had to come in my usual early time to park close enough to walk, and it might similarly be worth factoring in an avoidance of rush hour or a departure time that gives you quick access to a bus.

    2. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      I just took 3 weeks of FMLA for a surgery. I was worried about depleting my sick/vacation leave, but the surgery was so necessary that I was really glad to have FMLA. At my work HR notifies my boss and grandboss of approval for FMLA along with a note that specifically tells them I am on leave and cannot be expected to work. That was helpful – my boss is the type to text or call at the drop of the hat no matter what I’m doing, so being explicitly told not to helped restrict him to emailed notes for when I got back.

      1. GOG11*

        I can’t imagine being expected to be available all the time. My job doesn’t have a ton of perks, but one is that it has a start time and an end time and outside of that I am not expected to ever be available and I really appreciate that. I’m glad you were able to at least get the time away while you were recovering.

        1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

          Well, it isn’t an expectation of availability but much more casual. “Oh, random thought in my head so I’ll text!” Well, at least when it doesn’t descend into group text meme wars.

  59. TL -*

    So I talked to my manager about my underperforming coworker and asked him to have a conversation with him. Despite the conversation feeling awkward and uncomfortable, my manager was great about it. He said he was confused about he could do to help the situation and I told him I was out of ideas but he needed to talk to coworker and that honestly, coworker was several months behind where he should be in terms of independence. And please god, do not let him work with potentially risky substance that he had just gotten safety training on; he was nowhere near that level of trust.

    The day I talked to my manager, my manager and I had been discussing a protocol with Coworker and I’d wanted a change made (a small number change.) Coworker did the protocol as written, not as changed to – despite the fact that he was part of the discussion where I pointed to the notes and said, “Let’s do X not Y”, and when I told them, “hey, we had discussed this and I said I wanted X changed to Y. These are the kinds of details you keep on missing; I need you to pay attention.” (There was maybe 30 minutes between asking for the changes and being handed the wrong product) he made a really sour face, semi-rolled his eyes and looked away from me. Didn’t respond at all.

    Which got my butt in my manager’s office a day earlier than planned, so… it’s not my problem anymore.

    1. BuildMeUp*

      Wow, attitude problems on top of performance issues? Sounds unpleasant! Hopefully your boss will take the reins and it will get better.

  60. AnonasaurusRex*

    I’m curious how PIPs work in other organizations. Apparently in ours if you reach one of the later stages, where they might be contemplating letting you go or putting you on suspension, if you screw up again any time after that, you are automatically terminated. Coworker who had a screw up when she was in a different job in a different department, and was suspended for a week and then on a PIP for 6 months (and was perfect the rest of the time in her job) was just terminated because she messed up something in our department. It wasn’t huge-huge, but it was definitely something that will get you back on a PIP. The thing I’m stuck on is that her other PIP was over 5 years ago and was a different job and department. People are going to mess up sometimes and if they are otherwise very good at their jobs this seems quite extreme. It’s making me second guess working here knowing I’ve had a couple minor mistakes. I feel like if I ever make a significant mistake I’m going to be fired, and if I’m ever on a PIP I should just start looking for a new job immediately.

    Does this seem extreme to anyone else?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      I think it differs not only between organizations, but also between managers at the *same* organization. Some people have a philosophy that a PIP is just a formality to be completed before firing someone. (If you ever see a PIP with a two-week time frame, I think that’s a giant neon sign saying “find a new job!”) Others think a PIP means what it says it means — a serious warning about things that need to be improved, and specific milestones that need to be hit during the PIP period to keep the employee on.

      1. NylaW*

        Agreed. And to me if you hit those, then the PIP is complete and “goes away.” I mean unless you’re on another one very soon after, like maybe within a year, something you did in another position 5 years ago shouldn’t hurt you now. Otherwise, don’t do PIPs at all. Just fire people.

        1. Liane*

          At all the jobs I have had–and Family Friend’s longterm (10+ years) job, PIPs and other types of discipline (coachings, suspension, etc.) rolled over after a certain amount of time, usually 1 year.

    2. katamia*

      That’s really extreme. I’ve never worked in a place that had PIPs, but I don’t blame you for second guessing working there. I would be, too. I understand automatic firing while someone is on a PIP, but this is definitely excessive. I feel bad for her.

    3. MsMaryMary*

      It seems a little extreme to me, but it can depend on the terms of the individual PIP. I used to work with an individual who was not a strong performer to begin with, and then periodically would have attention to detail problems and make some serious mistakes. She’d been on a PIP a couple times, and each time would improve temporarily (long enough to complete the PIP) and then regress back to her old behavior. Her manager put her on a PIP that not only required short term improvement, but also said she could be terminated if she did not show “sustained” improvement. I left the organization myself shortly after the “sustained” PIP was implemented, so I don’t know how it worked out. But it’s possible that your coworker’s original PIP had some sort of zero tolerance provision for future mistakes.

  61. imakethings*

    I’m supposed to hear back from a job today. I made it through three rounds of interviews and it’s down to me and one other candidate. I’m trying hard not to refresh my email every 2 minutes, but that’s so far been unsuccessful.

  62. AnonAnon*

    To my fellow AAM readers: Why and when did you decide to leave your job?

    How long did it take you to decide that you wanted and/or needed to look elsewhere? Whether you left because it was a toxic work environment, or the commute was too long, the pay too little, you wanted to move closer to family, etc. what exactly was the breaking point when you realized you needed to leave your job to look for something better?

    I mostly ask because I work with people who are mostly unhappy with their job, but have been working there for 10+ years. In some of of those cases, I wonder how much of it has to do with the job being good at first, but gradually grew worse over the years because of new management/business practices, etc.

    I actually emailed Alison this question as an Ask the Readers type post, but she suggested I post this in the open thread instead!

    1. NylaW*

      I’ve been working at my company for 10+ years too (actually 15+) but in 2 different jobs in that time. I’m at the same point you are, wondering if it’s time to move on. Some of it is that I am disillusioned with the organization as a whole, seeing that after years and years it’s not changing or moving forward. Some of it is have I been here too long, and if I don’t leave now will any other company ever hire me??

      But there is a bit of desire for a new challenge, a new environment, and new people.

    2. Amber Rose*

      First job: I was the only one who knew how to do every department, and I was making a hair above minimum wage. I loved the work, but the bitterness about my pay limiting my activities finally got too much when I could afford to go to a funeral and I decided to leave.

      Second job: My boss died. His daughter was impossible to work with. We had a screaming match where she decided to demote me and I quit on the spot.

      Both jobs lasted roughly two years. My current job (2.5 years) is probably where the people you work with are at: It started great, got slowly worse, now I’m unhappy-ish but not so miserable that it outweighs the fear and inconvenience of leaving. I still have a lot I can learn here too, so I’m sort of selling my happiness in exchange for more pretty bullet points on my resume.

      Also I love my coworkers. They are so awesome. I’m worried that even if I find a better manager/work environment, I’ll never find a group of people I fit in with this well.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Whoops, first one should be *couldn’t* afford the funeral. If I could there would be no issue. =P

    3. imakethings*

      Currently searching for new work because I have nothing to do at my job and there are no prospects to move up. I’m working as a receptionist in an industry where I have absolutely no interest. There’s nothing to do all day, so I’ve done things like take online classes, learn Lynda skills, etc to pass the time. I’m ready to learn on the job rather than all this theory, so I’m trying to move on.

    4. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      At OldJob, I was hired at the lowest end of the salary range. OldJob is considered Very Prestigious in our community (it was for a professional sports team) but unfortunately the Team’s General Manager was – HANDS DOWN – the most immoral, unethical individual I have ever encountered. Two months after I was hired, the entire staff (minus athletes) were put on furloughs with a 9% pay cut, but when you took your furlough, they would get upset at you being unavailable. After 18 months of furlough, only “lower level” staff – athletic trainers, grounds, admin assistants, etc. – were put on a 10% salary reduction that would save the team approximately $400k that year. Executives returned to their normal salary (and many received raises). When the Fiscal Year was up, GM came trotting in to the business office. He literally rubbed his hands together, had a big grin, and bounced on his feet asking if his check was in. Gave the jazz hands when I got it out of the safe for him. Turns out he received a $500k bonus for bringing us in under budget the year he gave us a salary reduction. He literally took money away from minimum wage workers for his own pocket. I was super disillusioned and ended up getting hired on to the athletic department of my alma mater. I was there for a few years before moving to a different department in the University, where I am now. The primary reason why I switched departments wasn’t because of any real issues in the Athletics Department; in fact, I really, really loved it. But my son was a few years old and this other department was going to pay me more for less hours and greater flexibility. I went from 40 hours a week to 32 hours making the same salary with better benefits, and I could set my own hours. Now I’m able to drop my son at school in the morning and pick him up at 3:15pm three days a week, plus volunteer in his classroom once a week and attend field trips or what not, but still bring home a check for the same as before. And one of the main benefits is that I now qualify for the CBA so I have mandated raises. It’s been a huge lifestyle improvement!

    6. PB*

      Oh, so many things. I guess it all boils down to realizing that the toxic work environment was never going to get better, because no one in management had any interest in making it better. In fact, if I had to point to one moment, it was the moment our director was like, “Look, we’ve only lost 300 people in the last 12 years. I guess some people think that’s a retention problem.” This in response to people complaining about the retention problem.

    7. Lora*

      1. Safety or being asked to do something clearly unethical and when I say “no, that’s unethical” they insist that I do it anyway.
      2. Work being sabotaged or stolen. That’s toxicity driven to a level where management either doesn’t care or is complicit.
      3. Stress (for whatever reason) of the job is so bad I cry during my commute more than once a week for multiple weeks.
      4. It’s not just that the boss is a douche, but HIS boss is also a douche or else thinks the boss is doing a bang-up job. Douche bosses get fired sometimes, or you can transfer or something, but if senior management is also a bunch of hosers, just get out. Run.

    8. GOG11*

      I had a great job but it was only part time and I eventually got run down working 3 part time jobs with no benefits. I full time, though lower level, job opened up and I decided to go for it since there aren’t openings all that frequently. I don’t know if I had a very specific moment, but I had a lot of good reasons for leaving that the opening brought into focus for me. It wasn’t a bad job, just a bad fit for me by that point.

    9. Ghost Town*

      Just moved positions w/in the last month.
      I was in OldJob for almost 8 years (three weeks shy of the anniversary date). I really grew the scope of the position and my own professional reach. I really enjoyed my position and had a good supervisor/co-worker/student situation. I recognized, though, the constraints of the university’s and my school’s bureaucracy and the reality that no matter what I did in my position or splashes I made in the profession (small though they may have been), there’d never be a substantial (or even meaningful) raise, title changes were like pulling teeth, and that while my colleagues appreciated me and let me know it, I was worth more and I needed more to live a fulfilling life outside of work.

      At various points in the past 3-4 years, I searched and applied for different positions with different levels of vigor. Got a few nibbles here and there. Kept plugging away at working on my professional self, as well as application materials. Eventually got NewJob. I had actually been talking to this general suite of offices for about a year and a half about other positions they had come up, did a few interviews, and developed a relationship with the main hiring manager. That ended up serving me well this go-round.

      If I hadn’t gotten this position, I would have been happy in my OldJob. I left a good situation for more growth opportunities. I do think the half percent raise last July, while the dean’s suite continued to grow robustly, galvanized me to move on.

    10. NoNameTime*

      1) Drug addiction in the workplace that was willfully ignored, combined with terrible pay and a “lag the market” approach to hiring, as the head of our division actually stated out loud once in a meeting
      2) Awesome smaller, get-work-done company bought by gargantuan, 1,000 meetings per week company; layoffs ensue; prominent management firm agree to take on our company’s merger and then back out because it’d risk their reputation
      3) Bait-and-switch job duties and impossible expectations combined with higher-ups in it strictly for their own advancement
      4) Meaningful work, but too much of it, and little to no chance of making a living wage or benefits, even long-term

    11. 2 Cents*

      I think many jobs have an expiration date for one reason or another. I left my last job because of a confluence of factors:
      –No raises (for 80% of the staff) for 4 years, even though the recession had passed
      –The 3-hour roundtrip commute was killing me
      –I didn’t get paid enough (see #1), and I didn’t love the work. Plus, there was nowhere to advance in the company, so it felt very dead end.
      –Everyone I worked with was also miserable. Not with each other, just with the circumstances.
      –My micromanaging boss, though a nice person, was a terrible manager. Actual words uttered when I gave my notice: “I know we couldn’t reward you monetarily, but we gave you more work to do so you got different experiences.” (I was doing the work of 3 people because two were laid off.)

  63. WritingItAllDown*

    Mini update on documenting a coworker’s inappropriate commentary on the workplace:

    Taking the advice given – thank you, everyone! – I turned in the document at the beginning of this week. I’ve been warned that there have been complaints before *and* that coworker has verbally retaliated/complained up the management chain about people making prior reports. (Coworker is not here this week, so I find out my fate next week.)

    The department manager has said that at least we can move my desk, although there’s no specific timing for that set yet.

    1. BuildMeUp*

      I’m glad you reported them! That’s concerning about the retaliation issues, though. Do you have an HR department that you’re speaking with, or are you just talking to the person’s manager?

  64. Cath in Canada*

    Question for people who work in places with insufficient meeting rooms!

    We don’t have enough meeting rooms, so there’s always another group finishing up their meeting when you come in, and another group waiting to come in as you’re trying to wrap up. Meetings always go right up to the last possible minute (sometimes beyond), so there’s no chance to set up properly; those of us who run meetings end up rushing to set up the laptop, projector, and teleconference line as the meeting’s already getting started, so we miss taking some of the minutes, and it’s all quite stressful. When I’m running a meeting I do try to get people to wrap up a couple of minutes before the hour, but it’s not always possible, especially when we’ve had a late start because the group ahead of us ran late.

    I’m thinking of suggesting to management that we introduce some kind of formal “meetings run from 2 minutes past the hour to 2 minutes before the hour, leaving 4 minutes transition time for one group to leave and the next to set up”.

    Does anyone work somewhere that’s tried this? Does it work OK in practice? Any suggestions as to how to (gently) enforce such a rule?

    Any other suggestions?

    Thanks!

    1. NylaW*

      We defined 1 hour meetings as actually being 45 minutes. So if you truly need a full hour, book 90 minutes and get done early. Most groups are good about noting that they are close to or at 45 minutes and wrapping up within 5-10 so that they are out of the room in time. Others are not, but it’s been good because people point it out and nag each other and police each other and it’s slowly improving. But the mandate came straight from our CEO who was annoyed by it, so people feel more pressure to adhere.

    2. Squeeble*

      At my job, we have time added onto the beginning and end of every meeting we book for exactly this purpose. Our room reservation system does it automatically, though, so I’m not sure I can offer much help on enforcing the rule. But yes, it’s a great idea and super helpful for all the reasons you describe.

      The two minutes on each end sounds like it might be extra difficult to enforce, though. Maybe instead you could recommend that all meetings must start right on time and end 5-10 minutes before their stated end time?

      1. Cath in Canada*

        Ooh, I like this idea. I don’t think our senior people would support cutting meetings short by 10-15 minutes, but “meetings now run X:00 – X:55” would be easier to sell. Thanks! I’m going to suggest this at our next team meeting and see what our department head and team leaders think.

    3. Optimistic Prime*

      My workplace is similar, but this wouldn’t go over well in my workplace at all. What usually happens is someone from the next meeting pokes their head in the door, cuing the other meeting to leave, and all meetings usually get started at least a few minutes late as we set up. There is installed tech in all of our meeting rooms to try to make the setup as seamless as possible. I’d say that it works 65% of the time, and that’s being generous.

      What’s actually happened, though, is that the culture around here is relatively relaxed about being places on time. There’s a surprising lack of opprobrium when people walk into things late – it’s kind of just assumed you’re running from another building or something, particularly since we have multiple buildings. So nobody’s super stressed if it’s 1:02 and you’re still plugging in your laptop. That’s not really a solution…but it’s the truth.

  65. Anon Anon*

    A new staff member starts in our department next week. The rest of the staff have mixed feelings, but I thinks hu will be a good fit. The only problem is I hate training new people. I work in a niche industry and we rarely hire anyone with direct experience, this is fine over the long haul, because if they have good transferable skills they can learn the rest. So this weekend I will start working on my I’m trying not to look annoyed face.

  66. Anxa*

    I have never had employer-based health insurance; it’s never been an option. My parents were self-employed or worked in jobs with no benefits since I was a very small child. I feel like I understand a lot about the exchanges, etc, but this is a whole new world.

    The past few years I’ve been on the ACA market, and this year I’m on Medicaid (moved to an expansion state, don’t make enough to get the subsidies). I know you don’t qualify for subsidies if your job offers you ‘affordable’ insurance (~9% of income).

    But does anyone know if you can keep your Medicaid, even if you are offered affordable insurance? I’m not sure it will be affordable, but maybe. I will be a contractor so I’d have to cover a large part of the premiums. I still don’t anticipate cracking the 133% FPL line, but then again, you never really know what the future holds.

    The FT job I’m looking at pays 2/3 what my PT days per hour and has increased commute costs. Insurance premiums could really affect the bottom line on this job.

    1. Undine*

      Call the insurance exchange/agency in your state! These are the types of questions they’ve been trained to answer.

      1. Anxa*

        Unfortunately, I’ve tried that with no success. They didn’t seem to have a script for that one. I’m pretty sure I can keep it, but am still nervous.

    3. Liane*

      It varies by the state. I don’t know about currently but it was possible in my state, a few years ago. There was a Part A (I think) for kids who had other insurance, usually through a parent’s job, but family income met certain limits. It was a secondary payer. If that insurance was lost, Medicaid became the primary insurer.

  67. Bored AA*

    Are there any other university administrative assistants totally bored out of their minds right now? Students are gone and I am BORED. Eventually I’ll get around to organizing things for the upcoming academic year and I’ll probably organize my office but otherwise, I have nothing to do. I’ve been reading and watched a few Lynda videos but it’s tough sitting here for 8 hours a day.

    1. GOG11*

      I am a university AA but we’re doing a bunch of routine stuff and also going through some assessment stuff so, while I’m bored, I’m busy. Could you ask around and see if there are any projects that have always been “someday” that you could get going?

    3. Ihmmy*

      ahahahahahhahah noooooo. Summer is my busiest time, particularly May into early June and late July plus all of August. We have a small intake of students who start in May plus our regular ones in September and so much of my work is intake related, plus a bunch of important things before each term (our college has mandatory spring/summer classes). We also get a lot of prospective student calls over the summer months. It’s nice that the lines for coffee and lunch places are way shorter with fewer students on campus now though!

      1. twig*

        right there with you — I admin in a university IT department — we’re heading into busybusy time.

      2. I'm Really an Artist*

        I’m an academic department admin and I envy boredom! Well, not really because, though I miss the UGs, the grad students are here, lots of research going on and now I can catch up on all the things I pushed back WITHOUT the constant interruptions! Plus, fiscal year end stuff, next fiscal year stuff…Summer is never slow for me.
        It’s very clear that while a lot of us have the same title at my school, we don’t have the same job. It’s very department specific.

    4. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Yup! I have been using Overdrive or Kindle web browser. My boss (dept chair) thought it was awesome. He also appreciates it when I log in to my DirecTV account to watch sports on my second monitor since we don’t have a tv in here. We are pretty casual.
      Next week will be a bit beastly since we have turnover and grade reports and such, but that just means I have to shuffle papers for a day.

    5. Rye-Ann*

      Not an administrative assistant or working in academia, but the lab I work in is under construction right now. So my team hasn’t really had much to do for the past 6 weeks because…well…the place where we work is essentially closed down (temporarily). I’ve been finding other odd jobs to do, but it has not filled 8 hours a day, that’s for sure. So yeah, I’ve had to do some reading and Lynda videos myself. So I can relate to your boredom. :\

  68. Anonim*

    My partner wants to apply for a posting in Europe (we are US). I am 100% on board but am trying to figure out what to do to keep my resume “viable” for the 3-5 years I am there. My profession tends to be in the government, healthcare research or public service sector, but the country we are interested in is a bit too far up the development food chain to need to hire foreign experts, especially those who don’t speak the language (we are studying it independently but I know from experience that even 3 years living in a country will not get my language skills up to the level needed professionally). The is very very little remote contract work.

    Because I am the type whose backup plans have backup plans, I have been looking at options and have come up with the following:

    1. Study the local language and​ also go for one of the degrees offered in English. Pro: totally fun. Con: none of the degrees are related to my field, the language is not something that would be a plus on my resume, cost

    2. Teach English. Pro: money and training experience is relevant. Con: I suck at teaching English and hate it

    3. Do short (3-9 month) assignments in places where my skills are relevant. Pro: money and relevant experience. Con: doing long distance relationship again.

    4. A friend has a consulting company in a different field and offered to have me “on contract” with whatever title and duty statement I want but my real role would be hanging out with him, shooting the shit, and playing wing woman. The company does work that is adjacent to my field. Pro: fun, nominal money, will fill gap. Con: I know that I will barely do any work. I would never claim experience or skills I don’t have, but having it look like a real job feels like lying on my resume

    5. Working in an outsourced industry that is adjacent to mine where English is the only language requirement. Pro: money, keeping skills fresh, learning new industry. Con: I don’t want to switch industries so having 3-5 years from entry level to whatever in the adjacent industry might be a negative when I try to get back into my preferred industry

    So, brilliant minds of AAM, what do you think would look least bad? Oh, and for context and in case you need it to give best advice, I have 20 years experience in my current profession.

    Thanks!

    1. Queen of the File*

      Fun adventures! I personally would find it really hard not to accept #4 but I agree that (at a minimum) you’re in for an awkward conversation when your next interviewer wants to call your friend for a reference.

      Maybe you could use it in conjunction with one of the options, and if you don’t end up doing any actual work for your friend, don’t put it on your resume.

      1. Anonim*

        An incredible adventure! I am so bleeping lucky to get this chance!

        My friend would call me a “critical strategic partner” and make the drinking sessions sound like strategic planning. And, to be fair, for him, arguing with me and using me as a sounding board is good strategic planning. It would be my conscience that would be feeling bad about calling work with him a real job.

        1. Rocketship*

          Perhaps I’m just more cavalier about such things than the average bear… but just because you enjoy it doesn’t make it not-work. Nor does it make it less valuable. You’re getting paid to do something that, frankly, is often expected of folks (particularly lady folks) for free – and shouldn’t be.

          I highly recommend reading “‘Where’s My Cut?’: On Unpaid Emotional Labor” by the brilliant Jess Zimmerman. (http://the-toast.net/2015/07/13/emotional-labor/) Might help you see this option in a different light. :)

    2. katamia*

      1 and 4 sound like they would go together well and make 4 less awkward to explain to future interviewers. You could also see if your #4 friend would be willing to make it more of an official job–maybe if they’re thinking of a 90/10 fun/work ratio you could negotiate it to something closer to 50/50.

      As an ex-ESL teacher, don’t teach if you already know you hate it. Some jobs you can do without the passion, but IME it’s always been really hard to do something with all the craziness and extra work that teaching entails without that passion.

      1. Anonim*

        I hadn’t thought of combining 1 and 4. That is such a good idea. I think I can swing it even with 4 involving short trips (1-4 weeks) in three other countries (his NGO isn’t based where I am going, but close enough)

        I tried doing ESL tutor for a refugee family and I was awful. I realized that I can’t explain why English is the way it is in any coherent fashion. I’m so glad the family didn’t end up hating me :(

      1. Anonim*

        Oh I think I was unclear. I don’t need to work for the money. His job pays for everything except food and entertainment. I need something that will make my resume look good. So hostel won’t cut it. I’d love to volunteer, but the NGOs are all local and you need to speak the language, which I don’t

    4. consultant*

      It depends on what you do professionally.

      But I’m from Europe, have lived and worked in several European countries. At least at big companies you don’t normally need to speak the local language. In my country and at my company every communication takes place in English, we have people who don’t speak a word of the vernacular.

      (France may be an exception though – it’s more vernacular oriented).

      1. Bagpuss*

        oops. hit post too soon! Would it be possible for you to keep your current-industry knowledge current through courses or seminars at that same time? Then when you return you can market yourself with any transferable skills the work and degree give you, plus show that you have commitment and recent training as well as your 20 years experience in your current field.
        Do you have a friend or manager in your current role who you could speak to, to ask them what they would see as positives or negatives if they had an application from someone with a 3-5 year gap?
        (As an employer, I would see relocating to be with a partner/spouse overseas was a good reason for a gap in a candidate’s resume, but I would want to see evidence that they were still up to speed with the needs of the job, and that they were still going to be OK with all the normal things such as managing their time and workload etc, so on that front, seeing that they had been studying or working would be positive,m even if the work of study wasn’t directly related to the role. (My view is coloured by having had a couple of experiences with people coming back after gaps, where they seem to have lost the ability to manage their time / workloads so that rustiness in basic workplace skills would be something I’d be very cautious about if I had an application with a big gap on their CV)

  69. Grey*

    I don’t tell my employers about my ASD when I’m interviewing because, well, I doubt they’d hire me if I did. Plus I don’t want to be viewed or treated differently. But now that they’ve known me for a couple of years, do you think I could get into any trouble if I ever mentioned it in casual conversation?

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I don’t think there is any way you could get in trouble for not disclosing a medical condition. Especially if it hasn’t impacted your job performance in any way.

    2. Sadsack*

      In trouble how? I assume ASD is autism spectrum disorder, but I apologize if that’s not correct.

      1. Grey*

        Like maybe they’d be upset I didn’t disclose something that might affect my job performance.

        1. fposte*

          That would be a highly inappropriate response on their part. In general most employers would treat this with the disability model–it’s not their right to know whether you have a “thing,” just that you can do the work, but it’s your right to seek accommodation if you need it.

        2. Liane*

          Not HR or anything, but as far as I know, disclosing is optional. For example, the application for state jobs here includes a form where you CAN disclose, but it’s clear that it’s not required and that it is kept separate from application proper

  70. Accidental Analyst*

    I’d like a little perspective on the whole negotiation thing. Old boss had reached out to me saying I should be asking for a raise. His reasoning was it had been two years, I was doing more than I was originally contracted for and that since he’d left I had taken over some of his duties. As we got to talking more about it he stressed that I should be focussing on they lost a resource and as a result I’m doing more. He said that I couldn’t just say that I had been doing more and now wanted more money (crying poor over something I had willing done). Part of that may have to do with the amount he suggested I ask for (large increase but puts me closer to market rate). Using his advice my current boss has agreed to look at my rate (yay) and they’ll raise it with their boss next week.

    So, to the nuts and bolts of my question, is it out of touch for me to expect that if I do more and add more value that that’s sufficient reason to ask for a raise? Or do I have to tie it into resourcing.

    Sorry for any delays in responding – it’s currently 1:45 am

    1. Allypopx*

      It depends. If that’s the advice your boss is giving you, and it’s working, then that’s probably the correct approach at this company in this context – and some of it will vary in that way.

      But “doing more” and “adding more value” is subjective, and it’s helpful to quantify it, which sounds like what your boss is getting at here. “Doing more” and “picking up slack that was badly needed” are the same thing, but different. Overall it’s always good to go into the ways you’re adding value when asking for more compensation.

      1. Accidental Analyst*

        Thanks for your response.

        I was hired to do the requirements for changing teapots. This had expanded to include design, testing, support, documentation and, project management. Without some of these things it would have taken longer, cost a lot more and our staff and customers wouldn’t have gotten the same level of support. Eg with testing it would cost three times for our third party provider to do it as it would for me to do it.

        Old boss wasn’t getting at quantifying this. It was very much to only go with as a result of him leaving and they’re being down a resource my role has expanded (ignoring when the expansion for things occurred).

  71. DVZ*

    I work in what is generally a really nice office – the people are friendly, everyone is decent, etc. However there are a couple of women who are the epitome of ‘mean girls’ – snide looks, laughing, lots of frosty glances, ignoring people, etc. They only do it to some people and it’s the type of snide behaviour that largely goes unnoticed unless you are the victim of it (or are familiar with mean girl bullies).

    These women treated me this way when I first joined the company and the relationships have never really recovered. We are cordial when we need to be, but generally chilly towards each other.

    Anyway – I have a new employee starting soon and today I found out that these women have looked her up online and been making fun of her. One of the women also has mutual friends with this new employee and was sharing unflattering gossip about her from previous days. I am totally horrified about it. It’s so out of sync with our culture and also just with being a decent person. I am totally outraged and I know exactly how it feels to be treated this way (by these particular women, no less).

    What can I do? I don’t want to report it to HR or anything like that because it’s a very political environment and would cause way more drama (obviously I would report it to HR immediately if they actually were bullying this new employee once she joined), but I want to do something. Should I alert my boss to the situation?

    The other issue is that one of the mean girls has a habit of preying on new employees (particularly younger women) and uses them for gossip/information. She comes across as SO sweet and SO nice to new people but she is genuinely a very manipulative person. I don’t want to tell my new employee to avoid her but I know that this woman will ‘befriend’ my employee and then immediately talk about her behind her back, repeat ‘confidential’ information she knows about her (this woman is the admin for our team so knows a lot…), and generally manipulate her.

    Is there an appropriate way to warn my new employee, without sound like a crazy/paranoid person or like I’m full of drama? This woman is genuinely just rotten to the core and I am fearful that she will be really nasty towards my new employee (the other issue is that new employees tend to be eager to make friends, and I have had an issue in the past where another young employee was just soooo eager to please that she would basically walk right into this woman’s trap.)

    1. Jadelyn*

      I would talk to your manager. They really ought to be able to step in on this stuff, that’s deplorable behavior. And they should also be the one to protect the new hire from the mean girls.

    2. Bess*

      I’d feel out your new employee a bit and then think whether there’s a good way to indirectly tip her off or signal if it looks like she’s taking this woman’s bait.

      But honestly, I’d also think that kind of googling/gossiping before someone’s even started might be worth mentioning to your boss. You don’t necessarily have to get into detail about your own experiences or get ultra descriptive. You could just neutrally say you’ve observed some of this gossip and ask if there’s anything you could do to ensure this employee’s onboarding is pleasant. You’d want to be careful not to frame it as a “me vs. her” thing, because as you noted that can just feed into the drama.

    3. JulieBulie*

      You don’t have to warn your new employee about that woman specifically. I am wondering if you can suggest to her that in general it would be a good idea to be reserved at first, be careful what she reveals of her personal life, take her time to absorb the culture of the office and see how people get along. I don’t know the proper script for that. Something about how some people like to test a new employee… uh… I’m sorry, I’m not helping much, am I?

      But now I’m remembering back to 1989 or so and some particular people in my office and thinking maybe you actually should warn her about that woman.

      Or tell your new employee what happened, but don’t tell her who it was – to illustrate that it is important not to rush the friends-making process. (Although I’m afraid she might form her own opinion as to who it was, and guess wrong.)

      I really think you need to warn her in some way, but unfortunately I’m just not sure how. She needs to understand that sometimes people act very friendly, but have hidden motivations. It’s good to get along with your coworkers, but it’s also smart to be discreet. (Oh, maybe that’s exactly what you need to say!)

  72. Newby*

    I am dealing with a migraine that has lasted for three days now. I was supposed to finish a project by today that I haven’t been able to work on much because looking at the computer for more than a few minutes is unbearable. How do I explain that to my coworkers without sounding like I am making excuses? (Missing the deadline will not affect the larger project. It is an internal deadline to make sure the project is moving forwards).

    1. K*

      I’ve had a migraine for 3 days so I wasn’t able to complete X. I should have it done by Y. Thanks for understanding.

    2. LibKae*

      Ugh. Sorry about the migraine. I get them chronically, so that’s frequently an email I need to send out. People have always been really understanding whenever it’s been an issue.

      I hope you feel better soon!

      1. jamlady*

        Also a chronic migraineur (my hands are legitimately shaking and seizing up as I type this, a part of a wonderful aura that decided to start up). Being honest is all you really can do. Most people understand, and the few who don’t aren’t worth the stress. It’s hard enough dealing with them without having to worry about how other people are dealing with them.

    3. Relly*

      Btw another migraine sufferer here. If you hit 72 hours where it hasn’t broken for at least four, that is legitimately Go To a Doctor and Get the Good Drugs territory. I always minimize my own health and pain issues and I worried the first time I went to an ER for a migraine that they were going to think I was crazy, like “um, we treat real emergencies here?” Instead it was “hi, um, maybe this is silly but I’m on day four of this migraine, and I –” and they were all “ooh, yeah, right this way.”

      1. Optimistic Prime*

        Chronic migraineur here chiming in to co-sign. This is definitely on Get Thee To Thy Doctor levels.

        I used to suffer through my migraines without drugs, thinking I could just soldier through. It got to the point that even my husband, who rarely takes any kind of medication, asked “Why do you hate medicine so much?!” Trust me, the meds will make your life so much better and more productive.

  73. DecorativeCacti*

    Does anyone have advice on how to keep your accomplishments succinct on your resume? I’m really struggling with following Allison’s advice of not using complete sentences but also conveying what I need to.

    For example: “reduced losses by two-thirds” just doesn’t convey what I actually did to achieve that but “Created and implemented new tracking and ordering system for department materials reducing losses by two-thirds” seems too wordy.

    1. soflo*

      I would do “Reduced losses by XX% by developing new tracking and ordering system for department materials.” Put the numbers first!

  74. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    How do you be kind to someone on the spectrum?

    I have a new person in the office, same level, who likely has Asperger’s. He acts awkwardly, has tics, speaks in a halting way, and doesn’t seem to know how to be collegial and friendly but professional.

    He seems to like me, and when there is work downtime we talk about our shared favorite soccer team or he shares the NYTimes crossword we pass back and forth. But I think he thinks we are closer than we are, and has asked me a few really personal questions (like how I, a queer lady, will have bio kids, or asking me to have a drink with him after work two days after meeting him).

    He’s bi and knows and respects I’m a lesbian, so it’s not sexual, but how do I remain friendly (he really is very nice) while keeping myself comfortable and helping him not commit big gaffes? I can be awkward too so I have a lot of sympathy.

    1. Manders*

      The advice I’ve heard is to be polite but direct when you need to tell someone on the spectrum that a question is inappropriate. I don’t have a lot of experience with this myself but my husband works with a lot of kids who have issues figuring out social cues, and he gets good results by calmly explaining the problem instead of expecting them to guess when he’s annoyed.

    2. Grey*

      Don’t assume he’s “on the spectrum” or treat him any differently because you think he is. After all, you say, “I can be awkward too”. Would you like him to assume it’s Asberger’s?

    3. Definitely Anon*

      If he asks you a personal question again you can reply “That is a very personal question.” and then change the topic. If he invites you for drinks or any other outings, you can simply keep saying no. Not that you can’t, just no. If you give an excuse he will think it is the timing. If you say “I’d rather not” or “No thank you” it is clearer that you are choosing not to go. Unless he asks why you don’t have to elaborate. If he does ask why, you can say that you prefer to keep your professional and personal life separate.

  75. breadrolls*

    I’d like to say thank you to every good manager out there–including and especially my new manager, whose guidance and encouragement have been absolutely life-changing for me.

    I moved from an admin role to a technical role (which is also a new position in my organization) last year, and I spent the first six months without a real manager. We were between tech managers, and there was nobody on staff who understood most of what I was doing (especially not my interim manager), so I had very little support and a whole lot of trouble communicating what I was doing and what I needed. In the last couple of months of having my new manager around, I’ve made huge strides in both my technical skills and my relationships with my coworkers. I’m actually enjoying my job more days than not, which has never happened before. Work actually used to exacerbate my depression, but suddenly I’m finding it helps a little.

    What stories do you all have about managers you’ve loved?

    1. Jadelyn*

      My favorite, favorite “good manager” story is about my current manager.

      We’d been having a TON of stress around several major areas of work that were Not Going Well At All and upper management was getting upset even though we were doing everything we could with the resources we had. After a particularly frustrating morning of meetings, I decided to go home and have lunch with my boyfriend to try to de-stress a little, since he works second shift so he was still at home. I texted him to let him know as I was walking out to my car, saying “F*** this place and everyone in it, they can all eat a bag of d***s, I’m coming home for lunch. What do you want me to pick up on the way?”

      Only I accidentally sent it to my manager.

      I realized that as I got to my car. I got in, put my head on the steering wheel, and tried not to cry, then sat up and turned the car on and got ready to leave. I looked in my rear-view mirror before backing out and saw my manager running – literally running – across the parking lot waving at me, so I turned off the car and got out, fully expecting to be fired on the spot or at least reprimanded hugely.

      Instead, she came up to me, gave me a hug, said “I saw the first two words and realized immediately that the message wasn’t intended to me, so I didn’t read any further. Here’s my phone – go ahead and delete the message from it so I don’t even accidentally read it while deleting it.” She handed me her phone, I deleted the message and gave it back, and she gave me another hug and said “Do you want to vent about anything?” I laughed and said “I mean, everything, but it’s nothing you don’t already know about.” She commiserated for a few minutes, then told me “Go take your lunch – get out of here for at least an hour and don’t even think about work or anything that’s going on here!”

      I have never in my life had a manager who cared more about my stress levels and mental/emotional state, than about something like sending that text. She saw it, and rather than being upset with me, she was concerned because she knew it was out of character and that meant something was wrong, so she wanted to help rather than punish. That was like a freaking revelation to me. I’ve never had that kind of good manager before. Ever.

    2. Cyberspace Dreamer*

      Chiming in as well. Was crafting a similar post due after reflecting on my career.
      I have had several bosses who supported me and gave me a chance to grow and did not hold my “unconventional” educational path against me.
      A decade ago I started out in an entry level position and through hard work and the assistance of many good I progressed very rapidly in my field.

      Hit a major bump in the road a few years ago when a new manager chose not to acknowledge or respect my accomplishments, questioned my skills and education and essentially forced me out of my job. (search for my handled and bits of the story are there) Had to start over at new job and new city. Order has been restored. Four years removed from old job. Plus a 20% pay increase over the past two years!! Managers appreciate my work again and its paying off. MUCH less stress as well.

      (As a type this my boss just peeked in my cube and told me to go home for the day!! See what I mean. Weekend starting early.)

      Have a great weekend all!!

    3. Ribbon*

      It’s not about my direct manager, who is unremarkable and is manager in name only, but instead is about the head of the agency I work for and I work closely with. He actually came into my office a few weeks ago to make sure I heard about a job opening that would be a huge raise and much shorter commute in a totally different agency. He said, “If I had my way, we’d just pay you more, but since that’s not happening I wanted to make sure you saw this opening.” I did apply and interviewed for that job this week, and we’ve had a couple more good conversations about weighing the pros and cons. After the interview, he said, “If you don’t get offered the job, think about what skills and experience you need to be a stronger candidate next time, and let’s see if there’s anything we can do here to get you closer.”

  76. Ann O'Nemity*

    I have 200+ unread emails. I generally get 40-50 real emails a day (not including newsletters and the like) and I’m having a heck of time keeping on top of it. Anyone have tips or tricks?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I hate having unread emails so I tend to read everything as it comes in and then color code it for later follow up. I know some people argue that it’s inefficient to ‘touch’ the email twice, but it really tweaks my anxiety/OCD to have unread messages.

      I also have filters/folders set up for things that don’t necessarily need my immediate attention so they aren’t cluttering up my inbox.

      1. Parenthetically*

        Yes, this plus “rules” to send things automatically to various folders. I also Pomodoro the crap out of admin tasks — I’ll do 20 minutes of reading/archiving/responding with a 10 minute break, then repeat.

        (My husband has never archived an email in his life and the way I deal with that is to think about it as little as possible.)

    2. July*

      Batching! I set up my emails to go to various folders, based on their senders’ association with various tasks. Then I go through the folders as appropriate. I’m also ruthless about the unsubscribe button. The clutter from newsletters and the like wastes way more time than it feels like.

    3. desert-witch*

      Mail rules will save your life. You can have mail automatically file itself into different folders as soon as it comes in, such as your subscriptions or mail from a mailing group or sender that you don’t necessarily need to look at right now.

    4. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Definitely filter your inbox. We switched over to Gmail in the last few months and it has really helped. All mass emails from the university and mailing lists automatically go in the “Forums” tab of my inbox. Certain keywords or emails from specific individuals automatically go to my custom “Academics” tab. Other emails are color coded, and I live by my task list. I can flag an email for a task followup and set a reminder for later, then archive or move the email to a different folder. It helps contain my inbox and reduce the number of unread messages.

    5. Drew*

      1: Set up flags for “Action,” “Information,” “Open Question,” and any other categories you might need. Also set up folders for all current projects, as well as “Administrivia” and other housekeeping “tasts.” Information posts probably can be filed immediately into the appropriate folder; if you need the information later, it’s there and you can search the appropriate folder for it.

      2: I am a HUGE fan of Boomerang – it lets you bounce messages out of your inbox for a set period of time and have them come back when it’s time to deal with them. I routinely do this with meeting requests, for instance, setting them to come back a couple of hours before the meeting unless there’s pre-meeting action items I have to complete. I also do this with email that I don’t want to deal with while I’m in the middle of something else; set it to come back in a couple of hours, or the next morning, or whatever, and then it’s out of your inbox and not taking up brainshare. The free version of Boomerang is pretty limited, but the lowest paid tier has all the features I want (including deferred email sending, which comes in handy when you want to dash off a quick off-hours note but don’t need anyone to see it until work hours or when someone says “remind me about that next Tuesday”). Works GREAT with the Gmail web client; I haven’t tried the mobile yet.

  77. Jessen*

    How do you politely follow up on an internal job application? It’s one where I don’t personally know the people involved, I had to apply by email. It’s been about 3 weeks and I haven’t heard anything at all.

    1. Jessen*

      I should add I’m not looking for anything fancy. I just think it’s a little odd that I haven’t even received confirmation of my application, and want to make sure it didn’t get lost in someone’s inbox.

        1. Jessen*

          Yeah. It’s just…usually they’re at least pretty quick to bring people in for an interview. And my company has a policy that any internal candidate who meets the basic qualifications must be interviewed. So it’s a little worrying that I haven’t received any confirmation, haven’t received any inquiries or any talk about an interview, haven’t received anything that says I’m not qualified – basically at this point I don’t even know what’s happening and I’m worried I’ll miss out on my shot.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            I’m in a similar situation, only my company doesn’t require hiring managers to give qualified internal candidates an interview. I’m assuming I’m not in the running and moving on, applying to more external positions.

  78. Sugar of lead*

    JFC this job. Two days on, two days off, and every other weekend, with weekends including Friday, working fourteen hour shifts that sometimes run long. I have no life outside of work anymore because I spend all my free time either resting or catching up on housework and errands.

    I could live with that, except my coworkers hate me because I have no social skills and keep screwing up and making everyone look bad. My probation period ends in July, and I think that’s when I’ll hand in my notice. I don’t want to stay where I’m not welcome.

    1. Fortitude Jones*

      I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time at work. I hope you can find something better soon.

  79. Cactus*

    My partner has pretty bad anxiety. He’s been working at his new company which has been great – his cubicle is in a quiet hallway with his 2 other co-workers and supervisor who all sit behind each other in a row. He has a decent amount of autonomy and privacy and he enjoys the work that he does. On Monday his team is moving to a new area where he will be sitting against a wall among 8 other cubicles and desks. The people next to his cubicle entrance have an open desk without a cubicle or hutch and are positioned to face him. He has a lot of anxiety about lack of privacy and is starting to have panic attacks over the new seating arrangement and his quality of life at work while someone stares at him all day. He is required to stay with his team and there are no other desks or offices he can occupy.

    What is the best way to approach this situation with his supervisor? I have suggested discussing curtains pulled back in front of his cubicle which would give him a little privacy or a cubicle “sliding door”. Would this raise red flags for any of you supervisors? He is the top performer in his department and recently got a small (3%) raise so they know he does well and focuses on his work. However, there is a screen capture software on every computer as the owner does not trust his employees to do their job without screwing around on the internet. (Source: I used to work there in the IT Dept.)

    1. Queen of the File*

      I am not a supervisor but have been in a similar situation. I have ADHD + anxiety and tried to tough out the open office where my back was to the constantly-opening door, and I couldn’t do it. I ended up in tears with our EAP person during my third panic attack in a week and she essentially forced me to ask my supervisor for help. Her words, “you are asking for something totally reasonable in order to be able to work–you’re not trying to get out of doing something. Your supervisor should be happy to accommodate.”

      I ended up switching workstations with someone. I know not every supervisor will react the same way but mine was totally fine with the conversation (“I am finding that the physical set-up is interfering with my ability to be productive”) and the solution.

  80. Nyxalinth*

    I haven’t been here in ages. Hello, everyone!

    Anyway, I’m going through some job hunting frustration. After nearly twenty years in call centers, I have a ton of transferable skills, especially with regards to retail (dealing with customers and such), and some good data entry skills as well. unfortunately, I seem to be typecast.

    Here’s the situation. I had to take a leave of absence for a year to care for an elderly relative, and then in November, re-entered the job force into a call center job. It unfortunately wasn’t a good fit, and I’m still there, but actively looking for something else. I haven’t worked retail since 1996, bt with my customer service background, I thought it would be a good shit into something new, that I enjoy.

    No go. I’ve been playing it up as “I’m looking to make a career change out of call centers, but i still love helping people and dealing with the public. I’ve worked retail in the past, and enjoyed it etc etc.” every place I apply to, though, gets me “Thanks for coming in, we’re hiring someone with more experience, blah di blah.” So why even interview me if they specifically want retail experience, and how hard would it be to specifically state they want experience? I’m not sure what else I can do to really make it obvious that I do want to work in retail, because I do. I’m tired of sitting around on phones getting yelled at for stuff that was well within the customer’s own power to control with a little common sense (if you go overdrawn, it is usually–mind, not always–in your control). of course I don’t say that in interviews. I also know that other jobs have their share of bs and stuff. I’m fine with that. I just. Want. Out.

    I also have a background doing data entry and general office work, but all anyone sees is my call center work, and they think “I’ll get bored with all that peace and quiet” or “want more money.”

    Arrgh! How do I ‘break character’ and get into something else? I really can’t do call center work anymore. I have the skills. I show up polished and prepared. I must be missing something, somewhere.

    1. Myrin*

      Oh my, what a coincidence! Only a few days – when AAM turned 10 – I asked if there were any commenters left who were here from basically the start and Alison mentioned your name. And I thought that I didn’t know it and now I’m scrolling down here and bam, your name appears!

      (Sorry for not having anything to say to answer your question, which I’m wholly unqualified for.)

    2. Former Retail Manager*

      If you left retail in 1996, I have to assume that you are at least 35-40 years old. That being said, are you trying to go back to retail in a management capacity or simply as an hourly employee? Also, are you trying to work retail full time or part time? How long do you plan to stay? If you want to go back part-time, do you plan to eventually transition to full-time or into management? Also, how much are you expecting retail to pay you? I think that these issues are potentially the biggest hindrance in your search.

      When I was a retail manager, I hired several folks with lengthy call center backgrounds and most of them worked out well. I will say that most customer facing retail gigs are much more physical than call center and that was one issue that I did have with some of the call center folks…they just wanted to stand around all day and balked at any request for physical labor be it restocking, mopping, receiving, etc. Among my manager cohorts, there was definitely a stigma that call center employees were lazy. You may also be facing an age issue. If you are indeed 35-40, most managers are probably wondering how long you’ll really stay? I never had anyone over 25 stay longer than a year or two…..totally understandable, but still a factor in whether or not you want to hire and train someone for some managers.

      Also, in my geographic area (Texas), hourly, non-lead call center employees tend to make more than some entry level retail managers. Call center wages in my area average $15-16 an hour with opportunities for overtime at some companies. Entry level retail management tends not to pay even that much and you’re often on salary for all management positions, if you can even find a company that still hires full-time. If you are trying to transition to management, you have to keep in mind that you are asking them to hire you as a manager with no management track record.

      Without more details about your specific situation, my best advice would be to preemptively address those factors above that may be making the hiring managers write you off at some point in the interview and try to find a way to convert what they may see as qualities that make you a less than ideal candidate into a selling point. For example, if you are competing with college kids, the fact that you have full availability with no restrictions could easily be a selling point. I also had a couple of older individuals tell me point blank that they didn’t need the money, the job was fun money, but they applied because they genuinely enjoyed the products that my former employer sold. This alleviated any concern that they would leave as soon as a better job offer came along.

      Hope some of this is helpful. Best of luck in your transition!

  82. Collie*

    Last day last day last day! I got an email from a coworker who said if I needed a “glowing reference” to let her know and then I responded with thanks for that to which she then responded she had “nothing but neutral not bad things to say.”

    Ooooookay then.

  83. CoordinatorSuperStar*

    Can you offer any advice on how to suggest a reorganization of office duties to management? I know it sounds presumptuous for an employee to go to leadership and suggest that I know how the place should be run, but I think I have some great ideas for improvement.

    One reason I am hesitant is that my suggestions for improvement would obviously benefit me personally, in addition to, I think, improving the office overall. I am worried that my suggestions will appear to be only motivated by my own initiative to better my position.

    The last time I attempted this, my last manager laughed at me and belittled my suggestions. It was a bit humiliating.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I think a lot of how this will go over depends on (a) how long you’ve been with the company and (b) how you present the suggestions.

      If there has been a recent situation that could have been better handled by your suggestions and you’ve been there long enough to really understand the workflow (at least a year), then I would say ask your boss if you can talk for a few minutes and open with “I was thinking about the situation we had with the Teapots Inc order recently. Would it make sense for Wakeen to manage the order taking since his department has relationships with the clients and then have our department do the quality control checks on the back end?”

  84. WhichSister*

    So Monday night I sat down and revamped my resume based on AAM and related links. Wednesday a.m. I applied to 7 jobs I had bookmarked last week. As of today, I have heard back from 3, including already completing an initial phone screen and now have a phone interview with hiring manager on MONDAY scheduled.

    This work place is getting more and more toxic. And my work place sanity buddy gave notice on Wednesday. So fingers crossed.

    1. soflo*

      Same boat – my work sanity buddy was laid off last week. Having a hard time being positive here. Lots of bites so far, but interview processes are taking forever and I don’t know how much longer I can last!

  85. Anxa*

    My job offer juggling act continues.

    I have an offer for a FT, seasonal job that may help me get a job in the field I studied. Problem is it’s a 1/3 hourly pay cut, will make summer travel a no-go (sounds trite, but there’s a special kind of frustration from being part-time most of the year, then having no time to visit family when you want). Also there are increased occupational hazards, one of which is hitting close to home as my SO just contracted an illness I’ll have a good chance of getting in this job. Take home pay would outpace my current pay, but I could end up jobless in the fall and end up worse off than I am now.

    I’m interviewing for a similar job today, too.

    Problem is, I like my current job. A lot. It just got 3x better than it was last semester. But I don’t know if I can keep my hours after the change in funding years. I’d like to do both, but I already picked my hours for the semester AND had my bosses on standby after an interview a few weeks ago. And that job will be there in the fall. AND I don’t want all of these short stints.
    I’m in my 30s and at a point where if this job doesn’t lead somewhere, it just looks like another divergence on my resume. My partner is in academia so there are enough job hops in my future if we stay together as it is.

    I cannot seem to prep for my job, because all I can focus on is do I WANT this job. Or what the best move is.

    I won’t go into all of the competing factors, but I just want to say I’m a big ball of stress and I also don’t know why I didn’t go to my bosses earlier this week about my options.

    I got into a program I applied for, but I almost wish I didn’t, so I’d have one less option to consider (taking the FT job means no program). I feel like I have a lot of options right now, but no really good ones.

    1. Anxa*

      Forgot to mention:

      Current job has almost no room for advancement. I don’t do administrative work, so it’s hard to switch into office jobs at my employer. I don’t have the advanced degree, either. And it’s PT, temp. I’m kind of in the ‘underclass’ at my institution. So there’s not much of a future in it.

    2. Anxa*

      Pluses:
      +I heard back from an occupational training program I applied to, so at least I know I’m in
      +I had a good convo with my employers and will talk to them more Monday, but I can stop stressing as much about negotiating new schedules or leaving or leaving then coming back later
      +I made it to my interview in the nick of time (I got a little lost)
      +The hours for the new option are more commute friendly
      +It’s after 5. No other decisions can be made until Monday. I will get indulging on a marathon rewatch before “My Show” comes back next weekend.
      Cons:
      -I got into the program, so I can’t have the decision made for me. At least they got back to me in time this week instead of not knowing.
      -I sweated through my shirt so badly. Traffic in the area is not great and I had a not pleasant time trying to navigate the Beltway traffic. I think it amped my anxiety.
      -There is still no clear winner or losers in the 3 jobs I’m trying to consider.
      -I didn’t get back to New Job 1 “Friday afternoon” like I had hoped. I was waiting for a more pieces to come together, and then my interview was delayed and ran long. And I made a few wrong turns getting to the cafe to check my email first. Oh well. Worst case scenario they rescind my offer?
      -New Job 2 is too far away to making Scaled Back Night Hours at Current Job work. But it does mean I can restart Current Job more easily in the fall.

      (I know I’m rambling, but I have post-interview adrenaline and my SO has been my sounding board all week and I’m so embarrased by my lack of career I don’t talk to my friends much about work)

  86. Melly*

    State or Federal Government people – tell me how long your hiring process took? I had an interview 1 month ago and I know delays are not unusual and I’m trying not to let doubt creep in. I’d love to see some benchmarks! Thanks!

    1. BeezLouise*

      I’d say within a couple months is still normal.

      The weirdly complicated thing about some of these jobs is actually finding time for the hiring committee to meet to interview people and make decisions. It can throw some ridiculous delays into the process.

    2. Collie*

      I’m moving into a state-government job — I applied in August, interviewed in early March, got an offer mid-May, starting toward the end of this month. For the federal contract job I’m leaving, it took about a month-and-a-half from applying to starting.

    3. Newb*

      State government job here. The process took 2.5 months, from the day I submitted my application to my start date.

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      Back when I worked for the State, we notified people who got the job usually in six weeks, but couldn’t notify those who didn’t get the job until the person who had been offered the job accepted it and was approved by HR, so that took 8 to 12 weeks.

      1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

        Applied in June. Phone Interview start of September. In Person interview end of September. Offer 2 weeks later. Started end of October.

        Internal transfer: Applied in July. Interviews in September and October. Started in mid November.

    6. Lemon Zinger*

      It took a little over three months, starting with me submitting the application and ending with my start date.

      I work at a large public university and am considered a state employee.

    7. Former Retail Manager*

      Federal Govt….applied in October. In-person interview in December. Received offer in February. An interview over a month ago isn’t anything to be concerned about. Best of luck to you!

    8. Cookie*

      Current job, applied in May, assessment in June, two interviews in July, contingent job offer early August and background check completed and actually offer at the end of August,

      Previous job, applied in November, interviewed in December, was told they didn’t have the funds in January and then told funding changed and I had an offer in February.

      It’s frustrating.

  87. Befuzzled*

    Is there standard etiquette around planning retirement parties, or does this vary hugely by employer? I work at a university, and for retirements it’s standard to have an open house, usually for a couple hours on an afternoon about a week before your last day, open to the whole campus, with food (cake & snacks) paid for by your department. In our department people from outside the department rarely show up.

    I have a colleague who’s retiring this summer after having been here for over 40 years (!). She’s at the same level as my boss (who’s been here <5 years) and they're friends. Apparently, the retiring colleague wanted to have her retirement reception in a certain place, and my boss asked their boss (our department director, who's been here less than a year) for that location on the retiree's behalf. The big boss disagreed and wanted to have the reception in a different place, and it's causing some conflict.

    My boss was venting to me about the situation, and I asked why she was even involved since she's not the one retiring– why isn't the retiring colleague saying where she wants her party? My boss seemed to think that was an odd question, and said of course that would be awkward and inappropriate. This confused me. When you're retiring from the place you've spent your whole career, why wouldn't it be appropriate for you to request a certain type of party, if parties are the norm like they are here? I mean, you could still be told no, but surely you yourself could ask? But apparently my boss and colleague didn't think so and thought this was totally normal, and now it's unnecessarily dragged my boss into conflict with her boss over something really trivial, which annoys me.

    1. Cheesecake 2.0*

      I also work for a university and the we’ve only had 1 retirement since I’ve been here, and that was rolled into the annual Holiday party. So instead of the regular holiday party luncheon, we had a (nicer) dinner + alcohol. It was closed to outsiders.

    2. fposte*

      Ours generally vary from cake to cake and punch (not counting the “please no party” people), and they’re all in our building, so the “where” thing doesn’t really come up.

    3. WellRed*

      I think your bosses are being ridiculous but…you don’t really get to dictate the party when someone else is throwing it to honor you. That may be where they are coming from (but really, can’t tjey just have it where she suggested)?

  88. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

    I’ve been thinking about this since the post about bullying but is there a way to vent in a workplace that is appropriate? I’m a talker so sometimes I need to just tell someone when I’m frustrated as it helps get it off my mind and deal with it. I know I can do this with people outside of my job (and I do) but sometimes I just need a someone to let me know if I’m overthinking it or if it’s really a person not doing their job/being a crappy person or whatever. I work in a small office so any toxicity can be felt and I’d never want to be the cause of that or make anyone feel bad.

    1. katamia*

      One thing you can look at is whether the venting is mutual–are you the only one going “Ugh, I hate this super-slow software we have to use” (or whatever it is), or do other people do it too? If other people do it too, then it’s more likely that it’s okay. You could also try setting some sort of ratio for yourself–you have to say 5 positive work-related things (that could range from “Hey, great job on that paperwork for Wakeen!” to “Wow, this project is really fun” or whatever) for every complaint you have.

  89. Batshua*

    I’m … having what might be an extended anxiety attack at work today. It’s settled little, but it’s basically literally every intrusive thought and fear that is present in my life gets a little cameo and a mike and some time to scare the crap out of me even though NOW IS NOT THE TIME.

    It reminds me of the iguana ghost in Oglaf. He’s just hanging out, reminding the character that he killed him.

    I can’t focus very well today because of it, even though I know my concerns aren’t fixable right now, and therefore I cannot address them and make them go away.

    This isn’t normal for me and I’m trying to figure out how to make it through today while pretending to be a normal, functional person.

    Advice?

    1. Manders*

      This is something I’ve been dealing with on and off for a while now. It sucks!

      My coping mechanisms:
      * Find a mindless physical task like cleaning or organizing your office to do. Volunteer to clean out that messy back room if your office has one. Pop some headphones in and listen to soothing podcasts or music while you clean.
      * Take tea breaks, walk around the office, and get outside on your lunch break if it’s a nice day.
      * Go to the bathroom and put a cold wet paper towel over your eyes if you’re tearing up.
      * Make a to-do list, breaking the things you have to do into small manageable chunks (this relaxes me for some reason).

      1. Queen of the File*

        To-do lists are great for this. I physically write mine down too, something about pen-on-paper is calming for me, and makes me feel like I’m getting my panicky thoughts organized.

    2. tiny temping teapot*

      Stay away from caffeine. It will exacerbate anxiety. I know this sounds horrible, but if you smoke, and can take a break to do so, it can help. (Only if you already smoke.)

      Is there a puzzle or game on your phone that sucks you in? Can you take give minutes to play? I find that kind of thing sharpens my focus and helps me get back to work.

      1. fposte*

        I was about to say the same thing on the caffeine. My suspicion also is that if you’re in an anxious state you even misread normal caffeine “pickup.”

    3. Lady Dedlock*

      I’ve had days like that. Get outside and go for a walk if you can. Also accept that some days are just going to be less productive than others. We’re all human. Don’t beat yourself up over having a less-productive day. It happens to everyone sometimes.

    4. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      I second Mander’s idea of finding something mindless to do as it can help clear your mind a bit. I often organize my desk or do data entry when I’m feeling very anxious as it allows me to not have to focus on tasks that may be causing more anxiety for a bit. Is there anything on your to-do list that is easy to do that you could cross off? Sometimes jut the act of feeling acomplished in something can make me feel better. I’m not sure if you are able to use your phone but I keep an app called hear and now which is a breathing app that I’ll often use to help during a panic attack. Sending lots of calming thoughts your way!

    5. Tuckerman*

      Are you working on a project with anyone? I find that getting out of my office and discussing work with someone else pulls me out of my head.

  90. VerySleepyPregnanyLady*

    I am hoping for some collective wisdom from people who have been pregnant while working. I am very newly pregnant for the first time (I’m 5 weeks along). And I AM SO TIRED. Like falling asleep at my desk tired, starting at like noon or 1. I am also super foggy-brained, so even when I’m not falling asleep, tasks are taking me 2x as long as normal.

    Tips on coping? I have googled this problem and all of the advice is to do what I am already doing (exercise, eat healthy, sleep a lot at night, etc).

    I have tried working from home and taking a nap, but I was no more alert post-nap than pre-nap. And I can’t do that on days when I have meetings. Help?

    2. BeezLouise*

      It gets better! Early pregnancy is so, so hard because of that exhaustion. I would say you’re already doing all the things right.

      Do you drink any caffeine at all? The current recommendations allow for 200mg a day, which I would sometimes split by having a half regular/half decaf cup of coffee in the morning and then another in the early afternoon (but I couldn’t go any later or it messed with my sleep). I also upped my water intake — I’m so much sleepier when I’m dehydrated, I’ve found.

      I’m about 20 weeks pregnant now, and in the last month or so I really do feel like I have my regular energy back, but it took awhile.

      1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

        Thanks for the encouragement! But 16 weeks seems so far away :( Particularly now when I haven’t told anyone other than my husband (hoping not to until at least after my first scan which is scheduled at 9 weeks).

        I’m drinking one large ish (maybe 10oz) mug of half reg/half decaf in the morning, which is what I think helps a bit then. I’ve been hoping to fully taper it off or switch to tea. That seemed like a great idea after the positive test a week ago… and not so much now!

        I noticed the water thing, too, so I’m drinking ~3 liters of water/seltzer a day. It means I *can* do my work at 1/2 the speed, as opposed to just staring off into space.

        I’m super worried it’s going to get worse if/when nausea sets in…

        1. BeezLouise*

          I know. Pregnancy is wonderful in some ways, but exhausting and terrible in others. I always tried to remind myself that having terrible symptoms likely meant the pregnancy was progressing well.

          You may not have any nausea! I have not been this lucky (last pregnancy I threw up until 36 weeks every day), but some of my friends had zero nausea.

          I actually started taking B6 for nausea this time around (a prescribed dose of like 75mg a day, I think?) and it helped tremendously. I wish someone had recommended it to me for my first pregnancy.

          1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

            Hmm, between this comment and the one below, I might ask my midwife group if I can take a B vitamin set (I’ve seen lots that are B6 & B12) on top of my prenatal vitamin….

            Most people told me to expect the nausea at 6 or 7 weeks, not 5, so we’ll see… I’m actually only 4w6d, so it’s WAY too early to hope for no nausea, I think. (And holy crap, did the fatigue come on fast. That and my boobs hurt like crazy. One of my bras that fit a week ago no longer fits. I am now even more skeptical of those “I didn’t know I was pregnant” stories….)

    3. Amber Rose*

      I have never been pregnant so do consult your doctor about anything you want to try that might affect that, but I have fatigue as a condition and I’ve had some success with:

      When I’m starting to micro-sleep at my desk, take a quick walk and then do some stretching. There are some subtle stretches you can do just sitting in a chair that aren’t super obvious or odd looking.

      Vitamin B12 and D once a day.

      Snacking. I find if I’m eating something, I’m less likely to be overcome by sleepiness. I keep some beef jerky around, or apple slices.

      Ice cold drinks. Chug a little then press to my forehead. So nice. I freeze the bottom quarter of a water bottle overnight and fill it up in the morning, and it keeps it icy most of the day.

    4. OwnedByTheCat*

      I posted basically the same question a few weeks ago! It was terrible. Terrible.

      Here’s where I’m at now:
      -I embraced 7pm bed times and told my partner I needed help. It was survival mode for about 6 weeks. He did all he housework and cooking. I worked and slept.
      -I would have a cup of half-caf coffee at about 2pm. Even if I didn’t drink the whole thing the small jolt of caffeine helped. Sugar may do the same thing.
      -I lay in my car for half an hour hour day…

      But it got SO much better at about 13 weeks. Like a cloud had lifted! First trimester was basically survival mode and now I’m back to being a more normal human being.

      Hang in there!

      1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

        You know, delaying my cup of half-caff to the time when I normally crash sounds like a good idea!

        Fingers crossed this lifts closer to 12-14 weeks than 16-20.

        (Oh, and my no nausea comment? Someone heated up a lunch at 1:30, and it is all I can do not to puke. Why, oh why, did the architect not design a door on the kitchenette?!)

    5. motherofdragons*

      Congratulations! And solidarity! I’m at 15 weeks and the fatigue has abated somewhat, but there are still days when the 2pm slump comes around and hits me HARD.

      In the earlier weeks when I was extremely tired, what helped me was drinking lots of water (tip: if drinking plain water gets boring, try mixing up how you drink it, like ice vs. no ice, adding cucumber or mint, or using/not using a straw, whichever you don’t usually do), getting up and taking a quick walk (even if it’s just a lap around the office), or finding a coworker to have a quick, fun chat with to wake up my brain.

      Also, be kind and patient with yourself! You’re growing a human! It’s no wonder you’re exhausted! This thinking helped me when I was feeling guilty about things taking longer than usual. I also found that the weeks went by pretty quickly, even though it feels like you will never stop being tired/nauseous/whatever. I hope you find something that works for you, and I wish you a healthy pregnancy!

  91. curmudgeon*

    Salary expectations…
    So applying for a few new jobs and they are asking for salary expectations, something we all hate.
    I usually just dont’ include it but wondering if it means I’m not getting replies because I omitted it.
    While I know what amount I am looking for, I don’t want to low-ball or high-ball a guess and it’s not like I can google to see the “norm” for the job in the area as they are jobs with common titles that could mean almost anything.
    What is your standard salary expectations response in your cover letter?

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      As a hiring manager, I like to advertise the the salary range for the position and then ask if candidates are comfortable with that range. Saves everyone time.

      If the employer doesn’t post the range, no wonder applicants don’t want to share. Nobody wants to go first, haha. But seriously, I think employers are (or at least should be) in a better position to understand the job responsibilities and how they stack up to market rates. It strikes me as a little unfair for an employer to ask applicants for salary expectations before getting a chance to discuss the position.

      1. curmudgeon*

        So would it be fair to say in my cover that I’d like the opportunity to discuss the job in more detail before I talk salary expectations?

  92. GI Distress*

    Who here has pooped their pants at work, and how did you deal with it?
    This is actually a serious question.

    1. Anonon*

      It happens!

      It happened to my husband a few weeks ago and he was mortified. He happened to have another suit at work, so he could change and throw away the most offending items. That’s my advice for you, even if you don’t have spare clothes. Can you just throw away your underwear and then go home?

    2. paul*

      Yes. I actually had that happen late last year or early this year. I threw my underwear in the trash and told my boss I had to go home.

    3. Anon in a toxic place*

      I think this happened to a co-worker at my previous job. She just said that she was taking the rest of the day off. I thought I would a couple of times at a previous job, so I always had an extra change of clothes/underwear in case anything ever happened.

    4. Ulcerative Colitis*

      This hasn’t happened to me yet (though I did do it in my dorm hall in college twice, and this was before I had UC), but I’m anticipating it. Spare clothes are a great idea, as are keeping wet wipes around.

    5. Amber Rose*

      It happens. I framed it as a medical emergency and I needed to leave but would be back, and ran home for spare clothes.

      Apparently this is almost a weekly occurrence for a coworker’s boyfriend too. He works as a crane operator and can’t always make it down for a bathroom. If there’s reason to think it might happen in future, spare clothes are a good idea. Also maybe double layering underwear, if it wouldn’t be too conspicuous.

      1. Anon for This*

        Hmm I wonder if the crane operator could take a bucket or bag up with him?

        On the topic of GI distress, my husband is going through that now as a recently-diagnosed diabetic taking metaformin. Anyone have experience with this and tips on how to minimize the GI side effects?

    6. Rat in the Sugar*

      Hmmm, my IBS has never made me poop my pants (…outside my own home), but I did once pee myself at work while I was having some issues with UTIs and bladder spasms. I mean, full flood, and I was having a face-to-face conversation with a coworker at the time. Eeek! Thankfully our uniforms included an apron and black pants, so nobody could see the huge wet spot. I ran to the bathroom, rinsed my pants and underwear out, and stuffed the underwear in the trash.

      Reading other comments, it seems a common way to deal with this problem if you can anticipate it, is to have spare clothes handy so you can toss the soiled ones and change. You may also consider diapers–I know, I know, but I wore them for a while until I got the bladder spasms under control and they really helped me feel comfortable in public, especially when I knew I was going to be far from a bathroom. I was also quite impressed with how hard it is to tell you’ve got one on–I found a brand that I was able to wear even with short-shorts.

      Good luck and remember, you’re not the only one!

  93. Anon in a toxic place*

    Has anyone worked in a place where people gang up on other people? There’s this weird group/pack mentality and if one person is offended/upset, then other people join in. How is this productive?

    1. Emi.*

      When you’re a Jet/ if the sh– hits the fan / you’ve got brothers around / you’re a family man / you’re never alone / you’re never disconnected

      1. Elizabeth West*

        You’re home with your own / When company’s expected / You’re well-protected!
        Then you are set / With a capital J / Which you’ll never forget till they cart you away.
        When you’re a Jet
        You
        stay
        A
        Jet!

        *finger snap…snap…snap*

        Sorry, Anon, couldn’t help myself. :)

        No, it’s not productive in the least. I’ve seen it be just a few people and I’ve also seen it be an undercurrent in the whole company. The first is easier to deal with if most people are professional, but if it’s the latter, I’d figure the culture is not for me.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Yeah, I hated working in places like that. For me, things only got better when the offending members left. It’s almost impossible to combat when management is unwilling to help, or worse, a part of the problem.

    3. Girasol*

      Google “mobbing.” It’s workplace bullying as a group activity. There’s some helpful advice out there.

  94. Kate H*

    Is it okay to ask a current boss for a reference? In a couple months, I’m moving to another city to be with my fiancee. I currently work a part-time job that I plan on commuting to until I can find something else. We have a high turnover as most of my coworkers tend to be students and my boss is a reasonable person. I haven’t told her I’m leaving yet because moving dates are up in the air.

    All three of my references are currently bosses that I had for part-time jobs in university. That was two years ago, I didn’t work closely with any of them, and none of those jobs lasted more than three semesters. I’ve been at this job for a year and a half.

    All three of my references are currently bosses that I had for part-time jobs in university. I’d like to drop one of them and use my current boss. I’ve been working for her a year and a half, much longer than any of my other bosses. She’s a very reasonable person and we have a high turnover as most of my coworkers tend to be students. She’s rather naiive when it comes to professional norms so I don’t think she’d find it odd, but would hiring managers raise an eyebrow?

    2. Anonon*

      I think yes, if you give her a heads up beforehand that you’re moving and ask if she minds being a reference for you.

      You can use her as a reference even if she says no, and some employers will want to talk to your current manager (even when that would cause problems for you at work) either way, but I think someone saying yes is usually a good indicator that you’re going to get a decent reference.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I would tread very lightly here if you want to keep working there until you find something else. If you’re close to an offer and you’re asked for references, I think you’re fine to ask your current boss. I just wouldn’t do it before that. You don’t want to end up in a situation where you move, try to hold on to this job, and get let go because they know you’re looking anyway.

  95. Need a New Name*

    Is it really impostor syndrome when you continually fail to get a job?

    I had an interview on Tuesday that I’m pretty well qualified for, if not ideal. I thought the interview went quite well and I did much, much better than I did at an interview for the same job last year. But I still didn’t get the job. I’ve applied for so many jobs over the last few years that I have lost count and yet I have only managed to get short-term contracts.

    I’m becoming convinced that I am actually just not good enough for anything. I try to tell myself that it is impostor syndrome but how much can you fail before you accept that you really are just not very good?

    1. Beth Anne*

      That happened to me last year when I was interviewing for a lot of jobs with a temp agency every job they said I was the 2nd person it was so frustrating! One recruiter said I needed to stop being so nervous in interviews b/c the interviewees could tell and I just thought that was a weird comment like who isn’t nervous on an interview?!!?

    2. katamia*

      Try reframing it. It’s not that you’re not good enough, it’s that you need to work on how to show that you’re good enough (because you are). Your resume and cover letter are good enough to get you interviews, but interviewing is an entirely separate skill set that, depending on your field, may or may not have much overlap with what youd actually be doing if you got the job.

      This approach was what kept me sane during the recession, honestly.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Well… It is not easy to find good jobs and it takes a long time. But that being said, have you reviewed your resume? Do you practice your interviewing skills (I can’t stress this one enough)? Even when you’ve done all of that, you still might not get the job, but you’ve put your best into it. None of this means you’re not good enough, it just is. I know it feels discouraging, but you simply have to keep at it and keep positive.

    4. tigerStripes*

      Sometimes the person doing the hiring has multiple great people to choose from and can chose only one – that might be what’s going on here.

  96. Cassandra*

    I found out this week my toxic ex-boss has a second interview at my organization. She’ll be in a different department, and I won’t have any direct contact with her, but I am actually afraid for her potential colleagues. She’s the type of person who plays favorites, and also isn’t happy unless she has someone in the doghouse. The designation of “favorite” and “doghouse occupant” can change at a moment’s notice, for no discernible reason. I mentioned this to someone in the department when I heard she was applying for the job, but I’m not sure if they said anything. Should I say something to another friend in the department? They’re not on the hiring committee, and probably won’t be asked for input, but I feel like I need to warn someone.

    1. Kyrielle*

      I would reach out to the hiring committee, or one of its members! Mentioning it to someone in the department who isn’t on the committee leaves them in the awkward position of knowing, but not really having the direct standing to do anything with it – they didn’t experience it and can’t answer questions if anyone wants to probe into it.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Totally agree. As a hiring manager, I would absolutely want to hear this kind of information.

    2. not my usual alias*

      I’d tell the hiring committee that you’ve worked with her, and would like to give some input. One of the most satisfying days of my life was the day I got a call from someone who knew I had once worked for Toxic Boss and wanted to discuss her performance as a manager, since she’d applied for a job in this person’s department. I hope you get this experience as well. :)

  97. BeAnonForThis*

    Help!

    I have a pretty toxic boss, generally, but I’m mostly able to stay below her radar.

    However, she keeps telling me my job is being rewritten, and then giving me (or cc-ing me on emails where she tells other departments I will help them with) pretty menial tasks. This isn’t necessarily the part that bothers me though: next week I have a meeting with her boss and her, set up by her boss’s assistant. The boss’s assistant told me we’re discussing my progress and I should “bring my ideas.” I asked my boss what this meant, and she said both that her boss “had my back” and that I needed to be sure I show him what I do all day. The implication was that I’m not doing anything all day (which isn’t even kind of true) but it IS true that I’m doing very few things in my current job description, mainly because those aren’t the projects my boss is throwing my way. This is a mid-level job that is becoming incredibly administrative, but then I feel like I’m being called out for doing admin work.

    The kicker is that theoretically we hired someone part-time to help with admin work, but she basically refuses to do it, and then myself and my co-worker get bitched out by our boss for not managing the part-time person well, though we’re 1. not her managers, my boss is; and 2. my boss keeps throwing the part-time person higher level urgent projects. Did I mention the part-time person is one of my boss’s best friends? My boss’s boss has commented to me how relieved I must be to have someone helping with the admin work, and my boss has made comments to me about how no one else on staff has admin help except me, but I DONT have admin help. Trying to keep our part-time person on track of the few small stuff she’s supposed to be doing “for me” takes significantly more time than just doing it myself. I’ve made this point in the moment (both about the time it takes and how I don’t really have admin help, but no one seems to hear me, or something).

    Any advice?

    1. not my usual alias*

      Come with lists. The list of things in your job description that you aren’t doing, the list of admin things that you are doing, and the list of things you should be doing that have been given to the admin (not in a “tattle tale” kind of way, but in a “if I were given these tasks, Jane would be able to do the admin tasks we thought she’d be doing” kind of way).

      1. Voice from the wilderness*

        I agree that you should prepare lists.

        You could also print out emails from you boss, so that she won’t be able to cast doubts on your veracity or comprehension.

        Good luck!

  98. tiny temping teapot*

    Ugh, irrational vent time: one of my coworkers has spent the last two days talking about how she won’t do her evaluation of herself as part of the mid year evaluation process here at work. She doesn’t respect the management, she doesn’t think they have any idea what she does in her job, so she doesn’t care and this company has the worst review process of any place she’s worked. She hasn’t even logged into the system (this is the part that cheeses me the most) so she doesn’t know if any of her coworkers asked her to be a peer reviewer.

    The irrational part of my annoyance is I’ve been unemployed and then temping for over three years. I would love to be reviewed, I would love vacation time, getting paid for Thanksgiving and Labor Day, a 401(k). I’m kinda like, so you don’t give a crap about your job? Can I just have your benefits then? Sigh. I have put on headphones so I can’t hear her launch into all this again but ugh, I want a full time job a lot.

    1. Jadelyn*

      Nothing useful to offer re the coworker, but from a former long-term temp, I feel your pain! Sending good vibes your way for a conversion to a permanent position ASAP!

      1. tiny temping teapot*

        Also, I am just barely keeping my eyeballs in my face cause I have been rolling them so hard at her every interaction today – those people don’t know me! this workplace is the worst at reviews! I won’t participate! they won’t fire me for this! (why wouldn’t they fire you when you are telling everyone who walks by how little you think of this company?) etc.

        Thanks for the good vibes!

    2. curmudgeon*

      :(
      I will admit to being one of those who truly hates doing the self-evals rating yourself on 1-5 and giving a reason why & then doing all sorts of self examination on your goals, how to reach them what do I love/hate about my job, how can they make it better for me, etc etc.
      I just did that for my last eval 2 weeks ago – spent at least 2 hours doing the first version, sent it to a friend to make sure my snark wasn’t showing, spent another rewriting some things to make them clearer – and then once in the review the boss told me she hadn’t even read it (she had it for 2 weeks before we met). We only got 1/2 way through (about 90 mins) before I had a meltdown and she decided to not finish that day. We have yet to reschedule; I just can’t do it. But i am not getting any raise (after 19 months of being here) until we finish it.
      We are polar opposites on the personality scales and just cannot communicate.
      :(

      1. tiny temping teapot*

        That sounds awful.

        This is a different case, though, she didn’t seem to have any objection to evaluating herself, she just didn’t want to do it because of her issues with management. Actually, it sounds like the form is pretty short. I hope everything works out for you.

  99. Tired of Paying Dues*

    I’ve recently been promoted, and something’s been bugging me a lot. I started at my organization 2 years ago. I received a promotion one year into working here, and then another promotion recently. I’ve had a lot of struggles in general with my manager and others in terms of being taken seriously and viewed as my current role, and not the one I started in.

    But the way they talk about my promotions bugs me because a) they act like I should be grateful, when the reality is I am being compensated for my valuable skills and b) they act as if my career rise has been very fast and that I should just be patient.

    But the thing is… this isn’t my first job. I’m 32. I’ve had lots of experience, and in my opinion, I’ve paid my dues. I’m tired of people acting like I’m just starting out. I’m constantly torn on if I should leave, or if that would just start this whole nonsense all over again at a new company.

    1. Jadelyn*

      Did you just change fields or professions or something? Or do you maybe look young so they’re not considering your prior experience when they think about where you are career-wise? Those are the only things I can think of that would’ve prompted that.

      To be fair, your rise *at that company* has been really fast. Is that maybe all they mean by it?

    2. Colette*

      Two promotions in two years is very fast in most industries. So I don’t think them saying it’s fast is in any way out if line.

      1. Lynne879*

        I also think 2 promotions in 2 years is very fast, but OP’s managers might be talking about it in a way that sounds belittling or demeaning. I know that if I was told over and over again that my job promotions were “fast,” I’d start getting a little annoyed too.

    3. Princess Carolyn*

      I’ve had five jobs in 6.5 years and have dealt with a lot of colleagues treating me like I’m fresh out of college just because I’m new to their company. I’ve had to learn how to cheerfully point things out like “Oh yeah, I used to be a full-time copy editor so I should be able to take care of this proofreading pretty easily!” instead of saying what I want to say, which is “I could do this task in my sleep so leave me alone and let me do it.”

  100. beanie beans*

    I have an interview Tuesday with a start-up. I’ve always worked for large, secure companies, so while the idea of working for an innovative start-up sounds exciting, it also sounds kind of terrifying. Any suggestions for questions I could ask that would give me a better idea of where they are in their becoming a “real” company?

    1. Beth Anne*

      I think there’s pros and cons of both types of companies. I think smaller/startups are more laid back than big companies. I’d just be honest with them and ask how permanent the job is how they think the company is doing and stuff like that.

    2. Undine*

      “start-up” means a lot of things, so not all questions will be appropriate for all startups. What follows is a little jargony, I hope it’s clear.

      What round of funding are they in?
      What is their “burn rate” — that is, how fast are they spending money — and how long will their money last?
      When is the next round of funding and what are their plans for it?
      Do they have a deliverable product? (If no, STOP. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.)
      How many customers do they have?
      How many *paying* customers do they have?
      What’s the overall size of the market they are in?
      What’s their current market share (if any)? Projected?
      Who are their chief competitors and what do they have over the competition?
      What’s their exit strategy (do they plan to go public vs. being bought — it’s okay if they don’t know.)?

      Also Google them and look for reviews of the company/product. You should hit some reviews that talk about the space they are in, and how they shape up to competitors. You should see company size and years in business, which also tells you about how new and unformed it is. Any scandals will bubble up to the top. I’ve never done this, but Google the CEO and see his/her track record — is this their first startup, or have they successfully done this before.

      1. beanie beans*

        Thank you so much – this is exactly what I was looking for. I’ll dig into research mode this weekend. :) Very helpful, thanks!

  101. NikkiW*

    I work for a small non-profit. My one-year review is coming up at the end of the month. I’d like to ask for a raise, but I also know that next years budget (our fiscal year starts in July) is about 60k in the hole. This shouldn’t affect any current salaries, however it leaves me unsure if I should ask for a raise? The financial picture probably won’t change over the next year so it’s pretty much ask now or wait a year. Any advice?

    1. anoneee*

      I’m on the board of a non-profit. We are in a similar situation. Most everyone got 2% raises anyway.

  102. Jadelyn*

    Just need to vent!

    So, for background, I’m on the HR team at my mid-sized employer (a little under 300 employees at 20ish branches). We’re a team of 5, and while I originally was hired to do filing and data entry when I started 3.5 yrs ago, my role has grown so much that we’re hiring an assistant to take the more administrative stuff off my plate so that I can focus on specialist stuff that I’ve grown into doing. I also just completed my B.S. in Human Resources Management a couple weeks ago, which my manager announced at an employee appreciation breakfast earlier this week.

    Then yesterday, I was in the break room talking with a couple of coworkers from other teams, and one of them said “You’re practically in HR, can’t you tell them to do [thing we’d been talking about]?”

    I just said “It’s not really an HR thing, that’s on Facilities,” because I didn’t know what else to say, but I realized after walking away that her comment had really kind of stung? “Practically in HR”, I have a degree (something none of my more senior colleagues have, they’ve got degrees but in various other non-HR things – the joke is that now I’m the only one who’s officially qualified to be running things around here) and my aPHR certification which I got last year, and I’ve been doing way more than administrative work for years now, since well before we hired this person, which I know that because I ran her onboarding when she started and I know she’s been here less than a year, so why the hell would she reduce my role to “practically in HR” like that?

    I mean. I don’t think it was malicious, I really like this coworker most of the time, and we don’t have a lot of direct contact so it’s probably just that she doesn’t understand what I do. I’m our HRIS admin and do a ton of analysis and special projects work, I’ve developed and presented trainings to staff, I coordinate the entire 3-ring-circus that is our recruiting, I advise on simple employee-relations stuff (the complicated or PIP-worthy stuff I still escalate to our Generalist, but the quick questions I’m more than capable of answering), but most of that happens “behind the scenes” as far as line staff are concerned. So I get why she might not really know what I do or how it contributes to our HR initiatives overall.

    Still though, I literally have my own office adjoining the VP of HR and on the other side adjoining the offices of the HR Manager and Generalist. The hell do you mean, “practically in HR”???

    1. Anonon*

      I can see myself saying that, not maliciously at all, because “HR” to me is the person I go to if there’s a problem, and while there may be other people in the department, I don’t necessarily know what exactly they do or what power they have, if that makes sense.

    2. Amber Rose*

      As a tentative guess, since you don’t think it was malicious, she was trying to say you “practically have the power to tell anyone what to do” and it came out wrong. Since people tend to think of HR as a sort of Super Authority if they don’t know any better.

      So, I get that it stung, because wow did that come across insulting. But maybe it was meant to be a sort of compliment?

      1. Jadelyn*

        Maybe – I’d rather think that’s what it is, in any case. Awkward mis-phrasing is miles better than “doesn’t really see me as part of HR”, lol.

    3. Former Retail Manager*

      My take is that it wasn’t malicious and, unless this person knows what you do in detail on a regular basis, I wouldn’t assume that she knows the full range of your duties and expertise. If I were just going off of your title which I assume includes the word “admin,” I would assume that you were the low man on the totem pole. Still….I wouldn’t take it as a dig.

      As an aside, you sound like you are on the younger side. All the emphasis on the degree, type of degree, and certifications (Congrats! Seriously) seems a little much. Please realize that although degrees and certs are great, they can’t substitute for years/decades of experience that your more senior co-workers likely have, despite their lack of a degree in a specific discipline. The way you mentioned that above came across as a little bit on the “I’m better/more qualified side because I have this degree and this cert.” My apologies if you didn’t mean it that way.

  103. Indecisive Bookkeeper*

    So I’m in an awkward position. I’ve worked as a bookkeeper for a restaurant for 2 years now. When I started they paid me $10/hr then like 8 months later they gave me a $1/hr increase to $11/hr for helping them get their books in order. But IMO I’m severely underpaid!

    All the bookkeeping job postings I see in the area are in the $15-$20/hr range but that is a 50% raise which in my research seems unheard of. My other dilemma is I currently have less than a 30minute commute round trip…most of the job postings I see are at least a 2-3 hour commute round trip….and I feel most of my “raise” would just go to commuting costs.

    I really LOVE my job I just hate the pay and I’m at a loss as to what to do. So what should I do?

    1. Jadelyn*

      Talk to your manager! They might not give you the raise, or they might give you a smaller raise, but you can very definitely tell them, look, my research is turning up this as an appropriate range for my role. Can we talk about how to compensate me more fairly for what I’m doing here?

      1. Indecisive Bookkeeper*

        yeah I think I’m going to talk to my boss and tell her I love working there but based on my research and what I’ve brought to the company Id like to be making $15.00/hour and see what she says.

        It’s really hard to not keep the emotion and other things out of it like I just got married and honestly don’t make enough to pay my bills but I know that information can’t really be brought up in a salary negotiation.

    3. Former Retail Manager*

      I work in an accounting related field in which I have the pleasure of seeing various people’s salaries on a regular basis, including many bookkeeper salaries. You are underpaid!!!!

      Without knowing the full realm of what you do, assuming that you are well versed in QuickBooks, do payroll, and are what is commonly referred to as a “full charge bookkeeper,” $15 is on the low end of what you should be making. I’d definitely have a discussion with your boss, but be prepared to start looking.

      One other option, if you don’t want to leave your current gig due to the commute, you should consider freelancing as an independent bookkeeper on the side and slowly build your clientele. There is a remarkable number of small business owners that are utterly clueless about how to keep even basic books and could really benefit from someone with your skills. Some independent bookkeepers will charge by the hour or some just charge a flat fee each month. Either way, I’d definitely look into both options.

      1. Indecisive Bookkeeper*

        Thank you! Everyone I talk to doesn’t really seem to think it’s that big of a deal and I can’t decide if it’s b/c they don’t think my boss will give me the raise or that people are just greedy nowadays and don’t want to pay. Obviously, if I don’t ask I won’t know.

        I know one of the barriers is my boss is the General Manager and the restaurant is owned by a group of investors and my boss reports to a property manager that basically makes the calls in terms of salaries and big expenses and it’s whether or not she will agree to the raise increase or not…but it’s kind of messed up when there are guys in the kitchen flipping burgers making more money than the bookkeeper in control of your money.

        I have also gone back and forth with looking for a new job and just doing bookkeeping as an independent contractor. I am doing the books for an electrician in town I just need a few more clients and I’d probably be okay. I’ve thought about going to a few of the CPA’s in town and seeing if they had any bookkeeping work to outsource to me as the CPA that did the electrician’s books complimented how clean/well done his books were done.

  104. Jessica*

    This kind of straddles the line between work-related and out of work, but:

    I’m going to a professional conference in July and my company doesn’t cover the cost of lunch (huge company, no hope of this policy being changed so I have to deal with it). I usually pack lunch when I’m at home. The conference does provide some lunches, but I’ll be mostly on my own. Any suggestions for portable meals that I can keep in my hotel room? I’m flying out, but can stop by a local grocery story. I’d prefer things that I don’t have to heat up because I’m not sure if I’ll have access to a microwave. I’m thinking some soft of Kind bar with string cheese for a good snack, maybe sandwiches for lunch. Or some salad things. What do you folks think?

    1. Jadelyn*

      I’m fond of making my own lettuce wraps. A head of Romaine, a package of lunch meat, and a package of cheese, they’re easy to make and quick and fairly healthy depending on which meat you get.

    2. paul*

      Does the hotel have a fridge? I’ve run into business hotels that don’t :/ immensely aggravating, but kind of important when planning foodstuffs.

      1. Jessica*

        Good question, I just assumed they will have one. I’ll have to call in advance and ask.

    3. Ghost Town*

      Whether or not you will have access to refrigeration (in your room or at the conference) impacts where I would go with the meal planning. I’ve done everything from buying frozen dinners at the local shop and eating those to subsisting on granola bars and oatmeal to actually using my per diem + to eat real food.

      Nuts and cheese
      yogurt and granola (+ fresh or dried fruit)
      instant oatmeal (just add hot water, can be doctored up w/milk, creamer, nuts, dried fruit, what have you)
      other just add hot water meals (usually noodle based)
      Bread, butter, cheese
      PB&J (or nutella or other)

      1. Jessica*

        All really good suggestions, thanks very much! I don’t mind subsisting on PB&J (or nutella, or banana) + fruit for a few days – I can’t believe I didn’t think of this before, but I’m glad you mentioned it.

    4. Sadsack*

      Tuna or other fish and crackers? Tuna and salmon come in packets now, not just cans. Plus there are snack combos of fish crackers together. Or if you have a fridge in your room you could do anything cold. You could buy hummus and chips once you arrive and have them whenever you want.

    5. periwinkle*

      Almost all hotel rooms have a coffee maker, and that works well for making really hot water. You can pack condensed soup (Campbell’s vegetable beef!) and a lightweight plastic soup mug (I bought a Sistema mug from Amazon, less than $10). This also works for instant oatmeal.

      I’ll also pack mini bagels and peanut butter (and utensils, because trying to spread peanut butter with a Hilton pen doesn’t work well).

      1. Jessica*

        Thanks for your suggestions – I didn’t even think of needing utensils and dinnerware!

    6. mousemom*

      Ask the hotel if it’s possible to get a microwave in the room. Some of the larger chains have them available on request – doesn’t hurt to ask.

    7. valc2323*

      I’m actually going to a conference next week and food is never provided at these – I always end up hitting a grocery or convenience store. I usually end up eating out one meal a day and it’s often lunch (you didn’t mention whether you needed to make a dinner plan too). Lunch is cheaper and sometimes it’s easier to beg off dinner because you have things to catch up on at home / need to work out / want a break from people / just sort of disappear between the end of programming and the start of “dinner hour” and don’t come back out of your room.

      Things I carry from home:
      a bowl with a lid, half a dozen pint-size ziploc bags, spoon, fork, and knife (but the knife only if I’m checking bags – I usually do, since the bag check fee is expense-able)
      an insulated coffee mug with a lid and an empty water bottle (I clip it to my carry-on bag and fill with water once I’m through airport security)
      my own tea leaves, sweetener, and strainer
      my favorite protein bars
      If I know I won’t have a fridge – instant oatmeal, ramen noodles, and sauce packets from takeout (sesame oil, soy sauce) – if I know I will have a fridge, I’ll throw in a couple of salad dressing packets too.

      Stuff I pick up when I get there if I don’t have a fridge:
      fresh fruit
      box of munch-able dry cereal, like mini-wheats

      If I do have a fridge, pretty much all the suggestions already made :)

      1. Bilbiovore*

        In the same boat. My go-t0 are…
        Take with me-
        Granola bars, individual peanut butter/ almond butter packs (I like Justins) almonds and dried cherries. Starbucks VIA instant coffee.
        A thermal coffee mug
        Gouda cheese or laughing cow cheese.
        In my checked baggage, a pairing knife.

        From the local whole foods or something like that- apples, bananas, yogurt, granola, turkey, baby carrots, something crackers. if I don’t bring cheese a piave or parmesan cheese.

  105. Anon for this thread*

    Hi, Everyone! A couple of weeks ago I received a very prestigious Distinguished Career Award from my state Teapot Processing Professionals Association. Three longtime and very beloved colleagues wrote very beautiful letters of support for my nomination. One is at my level of Teapot Processing (with a different type of teapot), one is our Director of Teapot Processing, and the last one is Vice President of Teapot Innovation, Creation, And Processing.
    We work for a Teapot company that really cares about our Teapots and everyone who works with them.

    I should mention that this award has also renewed my enthusiasm for all things Teapot and I plan to spend at least the next decade of my career here. I know that gifts in the workplace should flow downward, not upward, but honestly, this award is going to give me so much mileage in the Teapot world that I want to give each of my colleagues something like a gift card to a bookstore in addition to thank you notes. I want to do the right thing here, because this is, in the words of Ron Burgundy, Anchorman, kind of a big deal.

    Any advice from the AAM hive would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Kyrielle*

      I really wouldn’t, because it would feel too much like “paying” them for it. I’d write them very heart-felt letters about how much you appreciate this and how excited/honored you are that they think so highly of you, or whatever words are true for you. If you feel the need to do more and would be comfortable with it, maybe ask if you could take them out to lunch (someplace nice) as a celebration? That still gives them something most people view as nice, but it isn’t as directly a ‘gift’ for a ‘favor’.

      (To be clear, what they did wasn’t a favor – I’d bet they don’t see it that way – and I’m worried that a gift could make it feel like that, or like a transaction.)

      1. Sadsack*

        Agree completely. Gifts would be off base for this, I think, but heartfelt thanks and an offer for lunch is appropriate.

      2. CM*

        I think a small gift without much monetary value would be OK — something like flowers, a book, a small box of candy, a trinket relevant to your work.

    2. Lora*

      NO. Write a nice thank you note on a pretty card.

      Seriously that’s it. Do not. You got it because you deserved it. They were happy to write letters for you because you deserved it. Enjoy the fact that you have nice colleagues and go around singing the theme song to The Jeffersons if you must.

  106. LQ*

    BEC Mode
    I have a coworker who is in BEC mode with I think I’d say 3 other of our coworkers. Some of her complaints are legitimate (not getting work done on time, riddled with errors so as to be unusable, directors not wanting that person to be working on the project because it’s so bad), some are just petty (being 2 minutes late, wearing a denim skirt not on a Friday) and I can’t get her to focus on the legitimate complaints so when she complains to our boss she focuses on the wrong things and then he isn’t hearing the complaints that matter and they are drown out by the 2 minutes late thing which my boss could care less about (but I’m not sure how ;)).

    I’ve tried sitting her down and explaining it to her. I’ve tried pointing out that boss doesn’t care about 2 minutes late so she shouldn’t even bring that up. I’ve tried telling her to let it go. At this point I’m just sort of at the walking away when she complains about the petty stuff and focusing her on how do we resolve this on the big stuff. (She’s sort of team lead for 1 of the people and just occasionally works with the others.)

    I also would like to know how common it is to have people you work with that you are in BEC mode with?

    1. Karo*

      I am starting to feel like it’s just a thing that happens when you spend so. much. time. with other people that you didn’t get to choose for yourself. Those mild annoyances that you can brush off when you see the person only occasionally get magnified 100-fold when you spend upwards of 40 hours a week with them.

      1. LQ*

        I haven’t actually explained that and that might be a good thing. I have given her some information on the how to complain. Though I might come back to suggesting she ask our boss how to handle it (…I think she’s gotten an answer (don’t worry about it) on a lot of them and not liked it). Though part of your job is doing what your boss tells you and if that’s stop worrying about her being 2 minutes late then it is actually your job to stop worrying about it. (At the very least stop bringing it up and intentionally jabbing the coworker over it.)

  107. Anon16*

    I had an informational interview with a woman who was really amazing last week. She’s an alum of my college working in the field I’d like to enter. She offered to put me in touch with other alumns currently working in the field, which I’m hoping might mean I’ll have connections for possible job openings, (I’m a recent grad and am looking to break into a new industry). I followed up with a thank you e-mail after the conversation (and didn’t mention the contacts), and never heard back. A week later, I followed up and asked if she would still be able to put me in touch with those alums she knew. It’s been only about 24 hours, but I still haven’t heard back from her. She was pretty quick to respond when we were arranging the informational interview, however. Is this a lost cause? Did I do something wrong? I’m usually pretty good at these types of things, but was really off my game that day and feel like I didn’t come across as well as I’d hoped. Need advice/positive vibes. Thanks!!

    1. Fictional Butt*

      24 hours is not a long time! If she is going to put you in touch with those people, she will probably want to check with them first, which might take a while. Also, just because someone responds quickly sometimes doesn’t mean they will respond quickly every time. Maybe she is on vacation or busy or sick or… you get the idea.

      Also, one thing to realize about networking is that you don’t always get everything you want from every person, and that’s ok. Networking is not anyone’s full-time job, so things fall through the cracks. Sometimes you will have a nice conversation with someone but never hear from them again. That doesn’t mean you did anything wrong, and it doesn’t mean they did anything wrong. It’s just a thing that happens, and you shouldn’t get upset or assume the bridge is totally burnt just because this one interaction didn’t work out. (But you are definitely not at that point yet with this interaction. Give her a week at bare minimum.)

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Yes this – it’s not a long time and she will need to check first. Time to take a deep breath and be patient.

  108. Sadie Doyle*

    I know Alison’s past advice about degrees from for-profit institutions, but what about working at them?

    I’m looking for a librarian job and found one that could work for me, but it’s at a for-profit school and that makes me extremely wary. Would I be shooting myself in the foot, career-wise, to take a job there?

    1. Manders*

      I think you should be very cautious about taking a job at a for-profit school if you really want your career to be at non-profit schools. The stigma against for-profit schools can be especially intense in that field.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      Possibly yes, possibly no.

      One of my best friends worked for two years at a for-profit and then got laid off. She had two short contract stints at non-profits on her resume. She was able to find a new job, but it took her a few months. I have no idea if this was because of the for-profit OR because their policy was to not allow her former manager to be a reference. That second part caused her serious problems, I know because she told me. I don’t know about the first part.

      The market for Librarian jobs is tough. The last entry level job we have, we got 60 applicants. I think if I really really needed a job, I would take it.

      And I would immediately look for something else as soon as humanly possible. If asked, I would say, “Well, I needed a job.”

      But I’ll be blunt- When I see a for-profit on a candidates resume, I don’t like it. Most For-Profit schools are deeply and fundamentally flawed and many cheat their students out of a quality education. I know people have to take what they have to take when rent comes due, so to speak, but I’d be very hesitant on ethical ground to work for one.

      On the other hand, if you are just thinking about applying, well why not? You don’t have an offer in hand? What are you losing to just apply?

      1. Sadie Doyle*

        Thank you for your candid feedback.

        I’m lucky that I currently have a job, but it’s in a corporate environment (job market was tough when I got out of library school, so not ideal, but there are translatable skills and I’ve gotten experience here that I wouldn’t have gotten elsewhere). I’d really like to get into a library, but worry that I’ve been away for too long. I do have qualms about for-profit schools, so maybe I will just use it as an opportunity to practice my resume and cover letter and keep looking.

        1. Sualah*

          I am not in the library field at all, but I would think if I could see on your resume that you went to a library school –> went to a corporate job –> went to for-profit school in the library –> applied to non-profit library…well, that progression makes sense to me. I can see where you are trying to get to, and you have to do what you have to do in the meantime. But people who are actually in the field would have a better feel!

        2. AnotherLibrarian*

          I think if you have an offer in hand, then you have to decide if the stigma of the for-profit is worth the actual library experience you would get.

          It is hard to get a library job without library experience, I really don’t know which I would decide to do in that scenario.

          1. LibKae*

            Yeah, that’s a tough one. I’m currently in an academic library and we’d go with no library experience over for-profit experience in a heartbeat, but I’ve worked at a few other libraries where the for-profit experience would raise eyebrows but probably wouldn’t be a deal-breaker (assuming everything else fit, and we’d want to hear lots of ways in which you had a strong user-focused mindset)

            On the experience front, if you stay with your current position, maybe you could volunteer with your local public library? I interviewed someone recently who had done that to fill in skills gaps in her resume (was interested in working in acquisitions, but didn’t have any practical experience there). I don’t know how flexible public libraries are on volunteers requesting specific assignments, but in my area at least, with the libraries being chronically underfunded, I suspect they’d be open to the idea of an MLIS approaching them with it.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      I work at a public, non-profit university.

      We take a VERY guarded stance when interviewing people who worked/work at for-profits. They are vetted very carefully and questioned closely in interviews to determine what kind of mindset they have about the school’s mission.

      I would never, ever work at a for-profit, but that’s because I am strongly opposed to their business practices. If you are wary, I would recommend staying away.

    4. Alice*

      Similar to what others are saying – when I saw a librarian in a recent hiring had a stint at a for-profit school I definitely noticed, and not in a good way. That said, I realize that it can be hard to get the first job.
      You could look into their graduation and loan default rates, to figure out if they are a typical for-profit school or not.
      Good luck.

    5. ModernHypatia*

      Late reply, but besides the other things people have said, one of the issues with them is that they’re often not really doing the same tasks. A lot of those places, it’s a lot more ‘space management’ and ‘minor admin stuff someone on the campus needs to do’ and such because the collection development and instructional decisions are made at a corporate level well above you or have to coordinate with umpteen other campuses. You often don’t get to do things like information literacy sessions, because the calendars are so tight and well-defined.

      It might be worth applying to see what the actual situation is (a lot of the above won’t come out unless you directly ask about it.) And go into it realising that you’ll need to explain the progression in future interviews, and be able to explain briefly why you took the job that makes sense. (“I wanted a chance to do at least some X, and I got that.” or “I wanted to work with actual students, and the corporate job didn’t allow for that” or whatever.)

      (Applied for one when I was out of work in 2010, and it was also the *weirdest* of my job interviews that year by far, with like 6 steps to get to the in-person interview, and another 3 after that, but they moved pretty fast through them.)

  109. Regularly Distracted*

    So I just got out of a meeting with my boss, and it was made very clear to me that I am going to be put on a PIP for not working during work time. While I have guiltily been reading blogs, including AAM, for a few hours during the work day regularly, I have also apparently been on my phone a lot. I didn’t even realize that I was on my phone as much as I seem to be. I know this makes me a bad employee and co-worker, but what I am looking for is ideas for how to curb this behavior and maybe encouragement if you know if anyone who has managed to successfully complete a PIP. Any help is appreciated.

    1. Collie*

      Do you have enough work to do? I find I’m more likely to be on my phone/reading blogs when things are slow.

      For practical advice — put the phone in a filing cabinet or otherwise out of sight. There’s an app called Forest that shows a growing tree on your lock screen and as long as you don’t use your phone, the tree grows (you can set time limits and such) — if you use your phone, the tree dies. I haven’t used it myself but I’ve heard good things about it. I also keep a to-do list handy (sometimes multiple to-do lists organized in different ways) to keep myself on track. Use that to motivate yourself — cross X task off your list and allow yourself a timed ten minutes reading AAM or what have you. Use the Google Timer feature to keep yourself in line. Good luck!

      1. Collie*

        Oh, and, you might try podcasts, audiobooks, or music if you’re able to use headphones at work, especially if you’re able to multitask. It’ll keep your brain occupied but you won’t be actively on your phone.

      2. Regularly Distracted*

        That’s the issue, I find, is that there is so much to do, I just try to avoid it. I will definitely use your list idea and the idea of actively putting the phone out of reach/view. Thank you so much for the advice.

        2. LibKae*

          On the list front, I really like Trello. I have lists of what needs to be done, what I’m currently working on, and what I’ve accomplished. I start a new “Done” list each week, and it’s been very helpful to not just see what I need to do, but what I have done (and on weeks where motivation is a serious problem, being able to see I haven’t added as much to my “Done” list as I did last week is often enough to kick me into gear)

      3. Regularly Distracted*

        The thing that makes this worse, is this is my first job out of college, and I did not have this habit when I first started working at this job. I used to work so quickly that there was nothing for me to do. But now that there is so much more to do, everything seems like it’s too much.

        It also happens to be time for my annual review, so I will be losing out probably on even a cost of living increase this year. Which would be better than losing my job, but I don’t have references to get a different job So if I lose it I’m SOL.

        I just feel like a failure and I don’t know how I can fix this or face the changes or anything.

        1. Collie*

          This was the case for my first job, too (although often it was just a total drought of work, so I ended up on blogs and such). No one ever said anything (or maybe I just wasn’t “caught”), but I did recognize I was doing it a lot. To-do lists have really made such a difference for me and, like I said, I use several different methods/formats so I’m always aware of what’s going on with what.

          Make an effort to make changes, even see if your supervisor/coworkers have suggestions. If you’re feeling overwhelmed by the amount of work, talk to your supervisor. You can do this!

          1. Elizabeth West*

            I second the to-do list. And don’t look at the entire list and think, “Oh, I have so much to do today.” Take it task by task. If it helps, divide the tasks up into sections, like five things you’ll do in the morning. BOOM, done. Then five things to do after lunch. BOOM, done. It’s easier to look at five things than ten.

            Also, if some of the things are recurring, can you schedule them so you don’t have to think about them when you’re doing something else? If you have Outlook you can make reminders on your calendar. I used to do that when I had weekly and monthly tasks, but it would work for daily tasks too. I would schedule difficult stuff in the morning when I was fresh so I got them out of the way.

            Good luck!

        3. valc2323*

          Also think about whether a three-things list would help you:
          Three things I’m going to do today
          Three things I’m going to do this week
          Three things I’m going to do this month

          That helps the list not feel so overwhelming, and every day is a new list.

    2. July*

      I am a huge fan of the Stay Focused extension for Chrome. You can set it up to block a list of sites–or even the entirety of the web, minus your work stuff–after a certain period of time. I give myself twenty minutes during the workday for general goofing off. After that, those site are inaccessible.

      1. fposte*

        Yup; I also have LeechBlock for Firefox and something for Safari, I forget just what, because wow, am I persistent when I want to waste time.

        RD, also audit yourself to see, if you don’t already know, just what happens when you choose phone or browsing over work. Not just the promise you’ll only look for a minute that then turns into an hour–browser blockers can fix that for you–but what is it that makes you bolt from work in the first place. For me transitions are the worst–when I’ve done Task A and I could do anything from Task B to Task Z, it’s really easy for me to flail into time-wasting instead–so I try to start my mental transition when I’m still finishing Task A. And I’m really literal and vivid about it: “Okay, when I’m finished editing this document, I will walk out of my office and sort the mail. It’s a big pile, but it actually goes pretty fast; I’ll be able to stretch my legs for a minute, and it’ll feel good to get that pile done.” Alternatively, take a walk around the building, down to the kitchen, whatever, when I’m done Task A and use that time to do the same thing for the next task. I’m apparently easily frightened by anything that looks like spontaneity.

        1. Regularly Distracted*

          You pointing out transitions being a weak point was something I hadn’t thought about, but this afternoon I was watching my urge to pull up a web page and it was at the point where I was finishing tasks that I noticed the really strong urge to go browse around on the internet. Now if only I had thought to ask for tips before it got to this point.

    3. Incognito*

      I can’t speak to the PIP, but have some suggestions about phone use. Out of site, out of mind – keep your phone out of sight (leave it in your bag or somewhere not easily accessible), and turn it on silent mode. It’s less tempting to check it if you can’t see it or hear it. Since you’ve been warned, I would recommend avoiding taking it out at all at your desk, because even a legit couple minutes could be misconstrued. Check it only when you are clearly on break, away from your desk. Then put it away. Check out apps like Digital Detox that encourage you to disconnect from your phone by limiting your access to it for a set period of time (and also making it a kind of contest).

      If you work on a computer all day and especially if you need to use web based applications, it can be harder to avoid surfing the internet. Maybe others have some suggestions there.

      I’ve found it really helpful at times to keep a log of what I do through the day for how long. It just makes you aware of how you are spending your time. If awareness is an issue, try doing this for a week or two. It will give you a sense of when, where, and how much you are being distracted off task.

      1. Moira*

        Re: working on a computer and needing to be online — I use two different browsers — one for ‘work’ stuff and one for ‘personal’. If I need to get work done and I’m getting too distracted, I close the ‘personal’ one.

      2. Arjay*

        I’ve been known to delete really appealing apps off my phone temporarily during times that I really don’t want to use them. Also turning off push notifications helps me control use’ those little numbers are so tempting to click on to see what’s new.

    4. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      I second the out of sight, out of mind, browser blocks and growing tree suggestions. Try some for a good few days each and see what sticks for you. For work organization of work and where to start, I’d suggest using a Kanban board at your desk. “To Do”/”In Progress”/”Done”, and you can set priority of these things. It’s nice to have a visual and get satisfaction of moving things across the board. Focusing on the visible board and work items for a bit may help ease the urge to browse. Good luck!

  110. Allypopx*

    Thanks to everyone who previous gave me advice about work-school-life balance. I’m strongly leaning towards leaving my job at the end of this year and going to school full time.

    I’m terrified by the potential weight of student loans. I’d take a part time job, but that likely wouldn’t cover everything. What’s the average amount of loans people end up with nowadays, and how reasonable is the daunted feeling I’m experiencing?

    1. KR*

      I tried to look at how much I could work during the school year while balancing my studies (since I worked hourly), calculated how much I could afford to pay monthly directly to the school based on that amount (they took payment plans, but you could substitute in a savings account for the semi annual tuition bill), and then took out a loan for whatever was left over. I know it’s daunting and scary. I was so scared of loans I worked all my first two years in school because I didn’t want to take out any. I was stressed and didn’t get a lot out of my classes because I was so busy as a result. Just think about it if you take out the loans so you can worry about the money later, it allows you to focus more on school and get more value for your money. I also completed my associate degree and am in the process of taking a break to get experience and then I will go for my bachelor’s once my student loans are decently paid down. I didn’t take out a lot of loans and went to a low price school, so I would see what others have to say, but it really helped ease my anxiety when I realized that taking out loans was helping me get more out of school. They give you a lot of good payment options if you take out the federal loans vs. private loans.

      1. Allypopx*

        That’s almost exactly where I am right now. I’ve worked full time all through my associates and I’m about to transfer to my bachelor’s and I can’t maintain it. I have a good, well paying job but I’m burning out and I’m ready to move on, and finishing my degree feels like the best next step for my career.

        Thank you for your insight, it’s helpful to know someone else has gone the same route.

    2. Fictional Butt*

      Have you looked into funding options besides loans? Scholarships, fellowships, TA or research assistantships, etc? It will depend on your field and what degree you’re going for, but those might be available and could help. Talk to your university, and also professional organizations and other organizations (for your field, for your city, for your ethnic group/religion… there are all sorts of random scholarships out there).

      As for loans… they are definitely scary, but lots of people have them! I think it is easy to get caught up in horror stories about people with tons of debt, but there are many, many, many people who are successfully paying off their student loans. Some things to think about are: how much would you need in loans? What are you studying? What kind of jobs do you think you’ll be able to get after you graduate? What are their salaries? What’s your current salary? How would a loan payment fit in if you were making the same amount after graduation?

      Do you have a personal budget right now that you stick to? If not, creating one might help you feel a little more in control and will also help you answer some of the above questions.

      1. Allypopx*

        Oh yeah loans are a last resort – I’m going to business school so there’s not so much in the way of fellowships or research assistant ships, and my career outlook would be great, but I’m in the nonprofit sector so pay can be variable regardless.

        Budgeting will be a HUGE part of this process.

    3. Tuckerman*

      I don’t think comparing your potential loans to others’ is necessarily helpful, because your situation is unique to you. I would look at your projected bills when you finish school, including what monthly payments would be for the amount of loans you would take out. Then, try to figure out a ballpark *realistic, not best case scenario* salary after school. From there, figure out a budget. How does it look? Do rent, utilities, health insurance, car payments, student loans, etc. cost more than your projected monthly income? If so, then re-consider your strategy, because that’s a problem that is not going to go away.
      Student loans are a big deal. Often very necessary to get ahead, but they take a big chunk out of your paycheck. I have $29K for undergrad and grad, and my payments are $370/month. It’s manageable, but that’s not a small chunk of change.

  111. Miss Gradenko*

    TL;DR: Can anyone talk to me about the experience of going back to school for an advanced degree in midlife? And, as I know there are a number of librarians here, I’d love to hear your thoughts on your work (I’m considering going for the MLIS).
    I’ve been a SAHM mom for 12 years, and my former line of work is no longer viable for me; additionally, whatever skills I had back then are woefully out of date. I need a new career path, and I’m intrigued by the various avenues that an MLIS could go down, but not really sure which one would be the best fit (though I’m pretty sure public librarian is not for me, really). I could really use some feedback, about the work, the job market, the programs, taking the GRE as a middle-aged person…anything! (I’m in the Northern NJ/NYC metro area, if that helps).

    1. anonymouse*

      Public librarian here! I always tell people who are interested in getting MLIS that getting a job in the field is not easy. The tight job market for librarians is sadly flooded with MLIS grads; I’m more familiar with the public side of things, so can’t speak for other fields.

      I would highly recommend trying to find a paraprofessional library job, because any experience in the field helps, and to resist taking on any debt to get your MLIS.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      Well, I can tell you what I tell every person who asks me about library school…

      1. Don’t get an MLIS if you don’t want to be a librarian of some kind. It’s not that versatile. Programs try to sell you that it is versatile, but I think they’re lying.
      2. You can usually be picky about what you do or picky about where you live. I had to move 2000 miles from home to get a job in my branch of librarianship.
      3. It is a tough market. Last entry level position that we had, we had 60 candidates. The one before that, we have 80. I’m at a small liberal arts college in the South East.
      4. I love my work. I love my coworkers. I can not think of a better group of folks than a group of Librarians. I have worked in 5 libraries at this point and every one has been a good job, though some have been more dysfunctional than others.
      5. The pay isn’t great. Just FYI.

      I’d be happy to answer any more questions if you have them.

      1. Treecat*

        I’m going to push back on #1 a bit. The versatility of your MLIS depends on your program, its offerings, and your choices. My MLIS program had (and has) plenty of grads that went into commercial, techy, more information management style jobs at places like Amazon and Google. They *are* the minority but they exist and they do well. They were also the type of students who tended to prioritize things like SQL and Information Architecture over cataloging and collection management.

        That being said, if that’s the avenue you want to pursue, you have to make sure that your MLIS is a modern program that has those options. If not, you will struggle to get out of the traditional library job market.

        1. fposte*

          Right, if you’re not going down the school or public pathways (I might add academic in there, for some fields) there’s a lot of possibility; the information management aspect is very popular with corporate these days.

        2. AnotherLibrarian*

          You are right, Treecat. I may have been a little harsh in my assessment. The truth is that you CAN do other things with an MLIS IF you craft your program of study appropriately and if the program has the options to allow you to do so. My observation has been that at lot of Library Schools sell a brand of “You can do all these THINGS, so it doesn’t matter that the job market is tough…”

          And I think that’s a bit disingenuous towards students who really, if you get a traditional library degree (one that does not prioritize SQL over MARC), you’re getting qualified for the library field.

    3. Treecat*

      I am also a librarian. I am an academic librarian (life sciences) and I got my start as a medical librarian. I totally feel you on public librarian not being right for you–I knew from the get go it wouldn’t be right for me, either. Because of my experience in academic librarianship, I can give you that perspective.

      So, academic librarianship has pros and cons compared to public librarianship. A pro: the pay is generally better (not necessarily by much, but better overall). A con: there are generally fewer universities, and thus fewer job opportunities overall, than public librarianship. Or, put a different way, there are plenty of academic library opportunities… if you are willing to move to wherever the university is that wants to hire you. If you are not, your Local University or Community College will be your only real potential place of employment, which is a rough place to be in if you don’t live in a major urban center with multiple institutes of higher education. In addition, if your local 4 year institution is state funded, they are required by law to do nationwide searches for every position, so you will ALWAYS be competing with a national pool. That being said, for the position have, “national pool” meant “~70 applicants,” which is huge for academic librarianship but tiny for a lot of other fields.

      The job market, as others have said, is really, really tough. I’m lucky and I landed a tenure-track job at my local major university within a year of graduation with my MLIS, but several factors convened to create that luck, which were:
      1) the previous person in that position retired after 30+ years (!)
      2) I have not only a bachelor’s degree, but a master’s, in life sciences (I was the only job candidate with this credential)
      3) I have prior, very relevant, experience in teaching in higher education

      If you are at all interested in academic or research librarianship, if you have previous formal education in the sciences it will help you a LOT, particularly if you’re interested in science or medical librarianship of any kind. I was the only person in my entire MLIS class with *any* formal education in *any* STEM field, period. Unfortunately, if you have a bachelor’s degree in English, History, Comparative Literature, or Social Science you will be one of the ocean of MLIS folks with that background and it will be very hard to distinguish yourself.

      Of course, if you’re not interested in academic librarianship, none of this applies at all. Good luck! :)

    4. Jackie Paper*

      Academic librarian here. My advice would be to only do it if you are 100% sure that the only thing you want to be is a librarian. If you are just considering it as a possible option and are not that emotionally attached to it, don’t do it. It is a very tough field to break into and many other fields will pay more money and be easier to get into.

      That being said, if you go that way, I would suggest doing as many internships as possible. Also try to get a job (any job) in a library for the duration of library school. If you can’t do that, find a way to volunteer. Experience is key.

      Also, try to decide what type of librarianship/specialty you want to do at the beginning of your graduate program, and then take classes and do internships in that specific area. You want to have concrete experience doing that thing, whatever it is, or it will be very difficult. If you are just a general, non-specialized librarian the competition will be much tougher. I recommend getting as tech-y as possible in your specialization. Systems, web development, programming … these skills will set you apart and make you more sought after.

      I had no previous library experience but did 3 internships during my program, a graduate assistantship, published several professional journal articles, and won a national writing award and it still took almost 6 months after graduating to get a job. And I had to move halfway across the country to a state I didn’t want to actually live in (still here!). But I consider myself one of the lucky ones. I know several of my graduate school peers who are still looking, years later …

      And be prepared, if you’re applying for academic librarian jobs, they tend to require a full-day interview (yes, like 8 hours), including sometimes dinner the night before, plus a presentation (sometimes in front of the entire library of 50-60 people), a business lunch, and multiple meetings. If you are an anxiety-prone introvert like myself, those are brutal.

  112. SarahBot*

    How long do you wait for a company to change before you get out?

    I’m an executive assistant who’s been in my current job for 3 months. I have a good rapport with the executives that I support, but the company culture itself is weird. It’s not toxic, it’s just strange. People barely use email – they call meetings if they need to exchange information, and they ask me to ask questions to the executives if they can’t immediately speak to them face-to-face. Also, in the words of my boss, it’s a “low-trust” environment – the senior leadership team doesn’t really work together. Instead they just take everything to my boss (the CEO) and ask him to make decisions / tell them what to do.

    I changed jobs because I wanted the opportunity to make a positive impact (which I do here) and to be a part of a team (which I don’t here) – I am able to have frank conversations with my boss, and we’re on the same page about what the problems are, but the plan to solve them is a longer-term one (i.e., stabilize the company financially and get some new people on the leadership team), and it’s hard for me to feel anxious and full of dread on my way to work every day.

    I have two 6-year stints on my resume before this, so I think I could have this be my one short “whoops!” without looking like a job-hopper, but – what would you all do? Am I being immature in wanting a positive work environment? Should I just buckle down and put in my time?

    1. Sadsack*

      If upper management is fine with the way things are currently handled, then you probably should not expect the culture there to change at all. Maybe you could try to push back against it in your own work by sending emails and suggesting it may be faster for others to do the same when they ask you to relay questions, but some people may not want to go along with your approach.

  113. Incognito*

    Still in full search mode. One place came back with positive feedback, but ultimately chose another great candidate. Can’t win them all, unfortunately. :( That put a damper on the rest of my day.

    Staying motivated in my current job has been tough. Communication between functions is terribad. The manager has set it up where now everything is funneling through her. None of the project leads on my team are being treated as such. The same is happening with other groups we work closely with, where some of my counterparts (the people with all the knowledge) are completely cut out of the process. Certain managers are the only ones sitting in on working meetings, given an avenue for input, and making decisions. I don’t like where this is going.

  114. Dawn*

    From 19 to 25 I had a job in a seriously toxic office. It was my first “real job”. The owner was a regular at a bar I worked at who needed a receptionist, and it just steamrolled into me being accounts payable / accounts receivable. I loved that job, I hated the owner. After I left, I had a string of regular office jobs. When I got married, I finally had the chance to get some schooling done, I now have my business associates (at 32). I’ll be starting the job hunt again soon (and pursuing my bachelors), but I don’t know what to shoot for. Am I entry level because I took a few years off, or am I mid level because I have experience and schooling just in the wrong order?

    1. Ghost Town*

      My field and experience is different from yours, but I would say it depends on the position with a general leaning towards mid-level (or not-quite entry level). If the position doesn’t ask for anything that you’ve done in your previous work, I’d err towards entry level. But you will likely find transferable skills that will elevate you to a not-quite-entry level position.

      That said, if you are completely transitioning fields, you may need to step back to get in.

      1. Dawn*

        I intend on staying in the ar/ap area, it’s what I really like to do, but it just feels like it was forever ago. My office jobs after that were administrative assistant, so no relevant recent experience.

  115. Can't Sit Still*

    I need to come up with 9 work-related SMART goals this weekend: 4 for the next 6 months, 2 for the next 2-3 years and 3 for the next 5 years. I’m coming up blank.

    This is for my masters program, so one of the goals is actually graduating. Ok, only 8 goals. Since I just started a new job, my manager’s goals for me in the short-term are to get up to speed over the next year, so I already have really specific training I need to complete at work, but that training doesn’t relate to my program.

    Why did I think this was a good idea again?

  116. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    I am admittedly cranky today but, I am SO SICK of being let down by people pulling their own wait and then being told with a shrug, “It is what it is.”

    The job search continues……

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’ve found a pretty strong correlation between how often clichés are used and how dysfunctional a workplace is:
      “It is what it is”
      “Six of one, half dozen of another”
      “Same s**t, different day”

      1. Rogue*

        Definitely see that correlation too. My favorite was when exchanging pleasantries and someone was asked how they’re doing, they would respond “oh, just living the dream” or “it’s just another day in paradise!” We were in dirty, dusty, middle of nowhere, West TX.

    2. DaBlonde*

      The phrase “It is what it is.” grinds my gears.
      My old boss would wait until the last minute, half-ass the reports and final paperwork, then shrug and say, “It is what it is.”
      No, boss, it is what you made it.

  117. Stop That Goat*

    So, I’ve begun the application process for grad school. I’ve made it a point not to mention anything to my coworkers largely because I’m worried how it’ll be viewed by my director. I’d be a bit overqualified for my current position once I graduated. I’m concerned that I’ll be managed out of long term projects and opportunities because it’ll signal me leaving the position in a couple years.

    I may be overanalyzing but should I keep it secret? Broach the topic directly or let it lie unless it happens to come up organically?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      I would just let it come up organically. Is your company the sort to manage people out when they sense that they are overqualified? If not, you have no reason to worry.

  118. Mega Chill Grad*

    What are some odd/interesting ways of dealing with office bathroom sounds and odors that you’ve seen? The funnier, the better.

    I visited a building that played fairly loud music in the bathroom to cover sounds. At least that building had a brand new ventilation system and didn’t rely on air fresheners for other concerns.

    1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Someone put a few spray bottles of Poo-Pourri in the bathroom at our work. https://www.poopourri.com/

      Our students can be randomly drug tested at any time and of course I was the only female available one particular time. I have to physically watch the pee and cup. One student was so embarrassed that I pulled up YouTube on my phone and played the sounds of a rainstorm. The next student requested “November Rain”. We turned a drug test into a dance party.

    2. AwkwardKaterpillar*

      I would take anything at this point. We have a tiny bathroom with two stalls, and no ventilation.

    3. Drew*

      Sounds: our bathrooms are pretty well soundproofed, so people outside the room really can’t hear anything within the room. Inside the room, well, we’re all there for the same reason and while I don’t think anyone actually likes broadcasting their elimination activities (PLEASE DO NOT DISABUSE ME OF THIS FANTASY), it’s not as though it’s inappropriate.

      Scents: Unfortunately, the way the people in my office seem to handle it is to ask what died in the loo, which is more graphic than I needed. We do have air fresheners and I usually try to do a quick spritz if I think it’s needed, but other coworkers are not so accommodating and a couple of times I’ve had watery eyes. There was a period of a few months when we had automated air fresheners, but the scent they chose was one that I found overpowering and cloying. Luckily, they haven’t refilled those.

      1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

        Two words: Courtesy Flush

        There’s a sign up in the bathrooms near HR that ask people to courtesy flush. You’d be amazed at how well it works.

  119. Does performance no longer matter?*

    I’m not sure if I have a question here. I’ve been a teapot analyst for 5 years. I started as a junior analyst, and was promoted after 2 years to senior analyst. Since the beginning of this year, I’ve been the interim manager for my department, and have received stellar feedback. My manager returned from leave the same time another manager in a different department left the company, and I was asked to take over as interim manager again. I asked if I could be considered for the role, and was encouraged to apply.

    I just found out that I can’t actually be considered anymore because I didn’t score high enough on the virtual job test (used to determine if someone is capable of doing well in the role). The test is actually new due to a merger from a few years ago, so no one I know who is currently a manager had to take it. The manager of the position I had applied to told me I was doing a fantastic job, and that the test itself was the only thing preventing me from getting an interview. I could understand this if I was an unknown, but considering my track record, I feel like I’m basically being told that my performance doesn’t mean anything.

    Could anyone help me understand, from a company perspective, why this is a policy that must be adhered to so strictly? I don’t expect to be handed the job, but I think my great track record and performance with the company (and in the actual role!) should at least get me an interview.

    1. Former Retail Manager*

      This policy does not have to be strictly adhered to. Your company is ridiculous. I would definitely speak to someone with some power and outline your accomplishments in both interim roles and ask if there is any way to be considered for the role, or perhaps even retake the virtual job test (not ideal, I realize, but better than nothing). Personally, I’d point out that relying on the results of any computer administered test alone or as an eliminating factor, without considering other factors, is not a recipe for finding the best person for the role. So sorry to hear that you’re in this position. If your company sticks with this plan for any length of time (say more than a year) I’d seriously consider looking elsewhere.

  120. The OG Anonsie*

    Somehow, and I don’t know how, but Amazon decided to tip me off to the wild and wacky world of… Recognition journals for employees?

    Basically they’re like tiny scrapbooks and the idea is you write fun memories and nice things about an employee in them and then give them as a reward or a gift. The copy on the Amazon listings for the first ones that came up are a thing of beauty. They say things like “this is a worry-free product that will make you look special and caring!”

    I thought at first they might be a gag gift but the reviews (and abundance of similar products) say otherwise.

    https://www.amazon.com/EMPLOYEE-COWORKER-APPRECIATION-GIFT-Administrative/dp/B01LZLC7A7/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496421439&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=administrative+assistant+award&psc=1

    https://www.amazon.com/Outstanding-Employee-Month-Recognition-Booklet/dp/B01LXNS3N2/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1496421439&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=administrative+assistant+award

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      I think the creator got 4 friends to leave reviews. ;) LOL

      Or, you’re already pretty far gone to even buy them, so of course you think they are awesome!

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Huh. There’s already a place where I like my manager to write fun memories and nice things: their comments on my annual review ;-)

  121. JC Denton*

    My current boss, who only recently became a manager, has picked up an annoying habit. They’ll mention that you made a mistake, but don’t have any examples of said mistake(s). When you believe you’re doing everything correctly, it’s kind of hard to go over everything with a fine tooth comb looking for the potentially non-existent mistake. Myself and others have asked for examples, but the boss usually just drops the inquiry and never comes back to it.

    Any advice on breaking this “bad boss” behavior?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I mean, there’s not much else you can do. If you’re already asking for examples and your boss can’t give you any, then…

    2. BuildMeUp*

      Does it lead anywhere after that? Are you getting in trouble for these supposed mistakes, or does your boss seem like they are viewing you/your work differently or monitoring you more closely? If the only thing that’s changed is that they’re bringing it up once and forgetting about it, I would try to let it go.

  122. katamia*

    I’ve seen people on here say that people who want to be tech writers should get on github and write some documentation for things that have been posted on there, but how do you evaluate what would be a good fit for you to write documentation for?

    2. Undine*

      It’s tricky because things on github tend to be fairly technical, so it’s not always easy to find something you can sound intelligent about. If you have any technical expertise, then finding a project related to that is best — for example, if you’ve done medical billing then search for medical billing and look at the projects to see if there’s one you want to write about. You don’t have to document the entire thing, but improving a few pages of documentation would help showcase your skills.

      If you’re just out of school, then maybe you know someone who’s done a sample project on github and you can offer to do documentation for it. Or look for something related to hobbies — here’s a project for knitters:
      https://github.com/gitforknitters/gitforknitters

      I wouldn’t use github as a sole or main writing sample since the actual amount of text there tends to be light, but contributing to a project showcases your ability to navigate writing in a complex technical environment.

  123. Crylo Ren*

    On Monday I have a follow-up, casual interview over coffee with a hiring manager. I’ve already had a first in-person interview and I know I’m one of 2 top candidates in our region (very specific skill set).

    Here’s where I’m struggling. Initially the recruiter who directed me to this opportunity let me know that the employer budgeted $X amount, which seemed appropriate to the role/market (and was in my range of what I need to jump ship from current employer). However 2 weeks later he let me know that the employer had to redo their budget and now they’re only offering 80% of $X – but the role expectations haven’t changed. So they can’t offer $X, but it seems that they still want someone whose experience level and responsibilities are at $X level.

    I’m not sure of a tactful way to let the hiring manager know that I know the history of the salary range and also dig in to what they’re really expecting of the role and how that’s changed or not given the salary range reduction. I’m willing to consider a pay cut, but not for a role that’s way more stressful and will make me more crazy than my current role already is.

    Was thinking I could ask more pointedly about performance/raise schedules and other growth opportunities, but is there anything else I could ask that I’m not thinking of?

    1. Definitely Anon*

      Don’t accept a job based on the performance/raise schedule if you are unhappy with the initial salary. There is no guarantee that they would stick to that schedule (even if they have every intention of sticking to it right now, things change). If you are willing to consider the job at a lower salary if the responsibilities have also been adjusted, then ask about the job responsibilities.

  124. Savannnah*

    My fiancé and I are moving in Oct to Portland or Seattle for his job. I’m leaving a program manager’s position at a large university on the east coast where I have the run of my department and oversee a staff of 20 and will be looking for similar work either at a university or non-profit. My background is fairly unique in my field and I’m probably 5-10 years ahead of my peer group in terms of salary and job responsibilities- although I’m fairly uncertain I’ll be able to replicate that on the west coast. My professional network on the west coast is way less robust than I would like for this situation. I’ve identified 3-4 programs and departments at universities there I would be interested in working for. None of them have posted openings that are beyond admin assistance currently. Is there any value in introducing myself to these departments anyway and if so how?

    1. Manders*

      If you end up in Seattle, I do want to warn you that UW has some serious budget issues right now. Some of the other schools in the area are doing better, but if you’re looking in the UW system, expect salaries for new staff to be quite a bit lower than you might see on the east coast. I do think introducing yourself and finding as many connections as you can would be a good idea.

      Congrats on your upcoming move! I was a reluctant transplant to the west coast but I love it now.

      1. fposte*

        I was floored at how low-budget UW is–I’m in LCOL space in the Midwest and a friend here turned down a UW job because it wouldn’t pay any more than here, so she’d have been losing a big chunk of money due to the COL differential.

        1. Manders*

          Yeah, it’s a real mess right now. I’d written quite a bit in other open threads about my partner being a grad student in a dysfunctional department and having trouble getting the funding he was promised/being pressured to do things that violated union rules to keep his funding. That was at UW. He quit the program when he was ABD and things have only gotten worse there since he left.

          There’s kind of a perfect storm of things wrecking the school’s budget, so I don’t salaries are going to get better soon. The people who live comfortably while working there are either 1) really long-term faculty and staff who were hired and received raises in better times or 2) leaning heavily on a breadwinning spouse or rich parents to get by.

  125. ANONYMOUS*

    Was asked to give two current professional references for a job I’m applying for (and they’ve contacted my past ones) but they also told me they are still interviewing others. Is this the norm now? I’d have no problem with it if they said they were planning to offer it to me, pending a current references check, for example.

    Not really sure how to respond to them! My current employer doesn’t know I’m looking and (I’m in law) worried colleagues won’t want me staffed on deals with them if they know even though I’m sure they would be discreet!

    1. fposte*

      We check references for all finalists, not just pending offer, but we accept references other than current supervisor.

  126. chickabiddy*

    Hi. I’m a freelancer/independent contractor and I wrote some stuff for a client. He liked it, asked if I’d be interested in being the social media “voice” for his company, and asked about my social media experience. I have none; this is new territory for me. I told him that I’d be interested but that I didn’t have “much” social media experience. He then asked about my personal accounts and expressed surprise when I said that I didn’t have any. I do genuinely believe that he was looking to see more of my style, not just digging for dirt as sometimes happens. The truth is that I have a very difficult parent and an even more difficult ex-husband so have decided that it’s wiser not to have a social media presence. So I replied that I realized that it made me kind of a dinosaur (a turn of phrase that I regret as I am of an age that is indeed considered prehistoric in some people’s minds) not to have my own accounts, that I very much enjoyed reading others’ accounts even though I prefer to keep a low personal profile, and that I looked forward to being able to help his company shape their account. I’m going to be writing some sample posts this weekend so I guess it was a good enough answer, but I’d like to know how to handle this if it ever comes up again, although I suppose that if I do end up writing posts for this company, I could just point to them.

    1. Manders*

      Unfortunately, you must have a personal Facebook account to manage a company’s Facebook page, and Facebook has gone through periods of trying to eliminate “fake names” in the past. If you’re managing the posts and not just writing the content for them, definitely make sure you have a talk with your client about whose account that would go through and how you’ll handle setting up an account without your name attached to it.

      Other social media sites are better about letting people manage a brand without attaching their personal accounts to it.

      1. EN*

        My company made me set up a fake personal Facebook account to use for managing client pages, and it hasn’t been an issue. It might not work if you’re attaching a payment method to your account for ads, boosted posts, etc. But the client would probably be able to set that up themselves and add your fake account as an admin. That’s how mine works.

      2. Ann O.*

        FB doesn’t actively pursue fake names, particularly fake names that look like real names. It’s more of an issue for people who are identifying with an unusual nickname or a stage name, or simply have a name that is unusual from a Euro-centric naming convention perspective.

      3. chickabiddy*

        Thanks! I have already said that I would potentially be willing to create content for posts and possibly log in to reply/comment but that I am neither qualified for or particularly interested in actually managing the accounts, so I expect that if we do go ahead, there will be someone else doing the bulk of the handling of the account. (I can afford to be picky because this is a very small contract and somewhat outside of my regular professional sphere.)

  127. I got questions!*

    I should preface this with the fact that I’m not known for always being the most logical/rational/kind-thinking person. I’ve had some toxic work environments in the past, that have left me itchy when contemplating the social stratospheres of the workplace. Anyway…. my boss and a colleague just spent 30 minutes in my grandboss’s office. This in and of itself can be explained pretty readily. What churns my butter is that my department was supposed to have a meeting that obviously was cancelled because my boss and my colleague were in my grandboss’s office. Am I being petty? I have no doubt. Could it have been an important/urgent conversation regarding some work-related product? Absolutely. My only explanation for my bad attitude is that I do feel that my colleague gets special treatment — she’s friends with both my boss and my grandboss. And while she’s a lovely person (I really have no issue with her personally), I can’t help but feel I get short shrift whenever she’s involved with something. I really don’t think there’s much I can do about that. Complaining would be petty. But I’m not sure how to get rid of my irritation about it all. :/

    1. kavm*

      I don’t know if this will be helpful at all but in a situation like that, I would leave the office for a short walk around the building/parking lot. If they cancelled a meeting, I would use that opportunity to channel my frustration elsewhere, and for me walking is what usually helps. It won’t solve the overarching irritation, but it might help you work off the steam.

      My boss frequently cancels or delays meetings that I’m supposed to have with him because something else “more important” comes up – I get that shit like this happens, but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating.

      I’m sure someone here could come up with a good script for if you wanted to address the special treatment directly with your boss, but I’m not great at coming up with stuff like that.

    2. LCL*

      If I knew a meeting was cancelled because a colleague had a last minute meeting with the boss, I would be very grateful to the colleague!

  128. kavm*

    I hope I didn’t complete miss this because I’d really love some input.

    Recently, the guy whose cube is next to mine (actually behind mine… we sit facing away from each other, if I turn around I can see his back and computer screen… anyway) has been clipping his nails at his desk. At least 2-3 times per week. I find this really gross but I haven’t said anything yet because it occurred to me that I sometimes file my nails at my desk – if I have a hangnail or a chip that keeps getting snagged on my clothes. So then I wasn’t sure if I was being a hypocrite.

    So what say you? Is it okay to clip your nails at your desk? Is it okay to file your nails at your desk? Is one okay but not the other? Should I tell him to cut it out? Should I cease my own grooming habit?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      I would ask him to take it to the bathroom (now if only I could do the same at home and expect it to stick), but if you’re spending more than a quick couple of seconds filing your nails, I’d cut that out too. I think clipping is worse because it’s louder and creates more debris that can be easy to lose track of, but extensive filing isn’t great either. If all you’re doing is dealing with the occasional hangnail or chip, though, I’m guessing that’s not taking much time at all.

    2. Former Retail Manager*

      Different take than MegaMoose…I think both are fine so long as they don’t go on more than a few minutes.

      Alternatively, if it really bugs you, you could ask him if he wouldn’t mind doing it when you step away for lunch, assuming you don’t both go to lunch at the same time, and offer to do the same with your nail filing, just in case he is miffed that you’re asking him to stop the near equivalent of what you’re doing. Maybe a “hey, this might sound weird, but the sound of nails being clipped is almost like nails on a chalkboard for me. Would you mind saving that for when I step away at lunch or meetings? I know that I file my nails too and I’m willing to hold off on that for when you’re away.”

    3. Amy*

      maybe he is clipping his nails bc you are filing yours? kind of a way to show you he does not like it without telling you?

  129. paul*

    this kind of straddles work/personal: How do you tell a friend you think they need to start looking for a new job, preferably one that doesn’t involve managing people? Judging from what he’s told me he’s at the BEC stage with being a manager; things that aren’t fun but aren’t abnormal for managers to have to deal with seem to royally piss him off, stuff like FMLA leave, facility problems, even performance training for new employees.

    1. fposte*

      “Wow, you sound sick even of the fairly standard stuff–maybe you’re burned out or need to look for a new job?”

      Alternatively, consider the possibility that the problem is not with the engine but with the “check engine” light, and say “Dude, you vent a lot about this job. If you’re not going to find a new one, let’s find something else to talk about.”

      1. Drew*

        That’s a great analogy, fposte. I have a couple of coworkers who complain about our workplace, but I know them well enough to know that they’re just venting – and yes, I’ve said, “If it’s that bad, why aren’t you looking for something else?” only to be told that they love the job even when they also hate it. Well, OK, but then quit wasting my time…

    2. LQ*

      Is it someone you can be direct with? I’d just tell someone that I’m close to. “You sound incredibly unhappy but what you’re unhappy with is a part of being a manager. Maybe it’s time you look for something that you’ll enjoy or at least not despise. The work you are talking about is normal. Your response to it isn’t so I’m worried and think you would be much happier elsewhere.” (And then if it was me I’d assign my friend homework and say that they have to go and talk to 3 potential contacts before we hang out again…but I may have weird relationships with my friends.)

  130. E.*

    I work for a small, scrappy, team that has a startup-culture approach despite working in a pretty large entrenched bureaucracy. My boss (who is also a friend of long standing) is exceptional in many ways, not least in that he’s very, very open to feedback and constructive criticism. We work very well together, too, in that we have complementary skill sets: he’s great at the big picture, and I’m good at details, etc. etc. BUT. In practice, this means that he relies on me to handle a lot of the details and to keep things flowing smoothly for our team. Normally, I’m fine with this, but because of a combination of factors (he’s overworked, we’re all exhausted, I was just out for a week at a conference, he’s got relationship drama going on) he has let a lot more of the details slip than usual, and because I was out I didn’t catch it. Now I’m hearing from colleagues that they’re very frustrated with him… that he’s not responsive, that he’s ignoring them, that he’s not communicating well and getting snappy. He’s been promising to do things and then just…not doing them, or assigning them to me, and not communicating this fact with anyone else. I’m starting to feel like I’m having to clean up after his mess, and it’s uncomfortable.

    Writing this out, I’m realizing that what you guys will probably say (and what I would probably say to someone else!) is that I should talk to him about it. But: any other ideas? Anyone else had to handle something like this?

    1. Xie*

      I’ve been in a similar situation and yes, you should talk to him! Aside from trying to figure out his performance issues, perhaps a little distance between your work duties would help? Right now, the 2 of you are working in a merged role that will always leave one liable to pick up the slack for the other. In my situation, I started to pick up other projects which meant that I had 100% control over them. This shift in workload meant that he had to start picking up 100% of what was left for him. Making a much clearer definition of what it is YOU do & what it is HE does can help clarify confusion for everyone, and will also help protect you from being tarred with disorganized projects.

  131. Bored and Confused*

    I’m stuck in a really sucky catch22.

    Basically, no one wants to hire me until I live in the city, but I can’t move to the city until I get a job. I have tried to contact friends, family, and churches trying to find someone who would be willing to let me couch surf for a while. I have even had multiple interviews over the last month, but so far nothing has worked out. No one wants to hire someone from out of town, and no one wants to have someone sleeping on their couch. I honestly have no idea what to do at this point.

    As a little background, I had to move in with my parents in January because after I graduated from university on the other side of the country some issues came up (my house ended up having black mold that made me sick so I had to move out, my job that was supposed to be full time only gave me 10 hours a week, and the job market in the area was at a record low). As amazing as my parents are they live in a very tiny town that has few job opportunities (unless you are friends with the business owners), and I have no drivers license or car. That means I have to car pool with someone in order to get into the nearest city to work.

    I should mention that I don’t offer up the fact that I have to car pool, but I will tell interviewers the truth if they ask. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to phrase things, or anything I could try?

    At this point I’m just trying my best to keep myself together.

    1. Jessica*

      Hmmm. Are they actually telling you that they won’t hire you because you’re not local? My organization definitely hires non-local people. We recently hired someone out of state who only did a Skype interview, no in-person interview.

      I feel like the guidance is often to “borrow” a local address from a friend. That doesn’t necessarily mean you have to crash with them.

      1. Bored and Confused*

        I have been told multiple times that they will not hire me. Mainly because I don’t have my own car and have to rely on someone else to drive me. I don’t understand it, because to me no matter your manner of transportation getting to work is your responsibility. I consider myself to be a responsible person to the point that I have already asked several people if they would be willing to carpool with me.

        1. AnotherLibrarian*

          Well, it sounds like that the problem isn’t that you’re not local, the problem is the lack of drivers license. Is there anyway you can get a license? Assuming there’s not a legal or medical reason that you can not drive.

          Back when I worked for a small construction/land management firm, we required all employees to have a valid drivers license. It wasn’t because they needed one to use the backhoe or any of the equipment (we were on private land, so city laws like drivers licenses didn’t apply.) It was because my boss had discovered that people who didn’t have a drivers license were more likely to show up to work drunk, quit without notice and have chronic attendance problems.

          Now, I’m not accusing you of any of these things, just saying that sometimes a “drivers licenses” isn’t really about being able to drive.

          1. Bored and Confused*

            I don’t have access to a car so the only way for me to get a license is to take lessons which I can only do if I am living in the city. I also can’t afford lessons, or even the first written test until after I have a job.

    2. I got questions!*

      It sounds like you have two issues here, which might be why you feel a little at loose ends. I think they both need to be treated separately and you shouldn’t berate yourself for either of them.

      First, if you want to work in the City and feel living in town is impacting your job search, I think it’s time to do some networking. I would recommend hitting up your college alumni network or friends and family that live and work in the City and if possible arrange to visit every so often, so you can develop a presence there.

      As for job searching in town or nearby… I don’t think it’s anyone’s business how you get to work, but it’s also not likely that an organization is going to facilitate transportation for you. Again, I think this comes down to proactively finding reliable means of transportation, whether that’s using rideshare apps or craigslist or email blasting friends to find others who work in the area.

      I think when you start to proactively take control of the situation (regardless of the outcome), you’ll feel less frustrated about your circumstances.

      I guess, the TL;DR version is — work your contacts and contacts of contacts and be proactive.

      1. Bored and Confused*

        Already spoke with friends and family, and there are no alumni in the city (being 6000km away from where I went to university doesn’t help). I do have rides into the city, but my problem is that many employers in the area will not hire outsiders. I think it’s partly because they want everyone to be on call, even if that’s not in the job description.

        It’s just hard that after months of talking to people and going to interviews I still don’t have anything and people still insist that I could be doing more. I guess I’m just frustrated.

        1. I got questions!*

          I think it’s reasonable that these organizations would want someone to live relatively local when they’re working for the company, but I doubt it would be a prerequisite to already live locally while interviewing. Though, there may be a preconceived notion that you’re not prepared to drop everything and move to the city if they would offer you a job, so that might be something to clarify in your cover letter.

          If you’re network is light, what about joining professional trade associations in your desired field or industry? That might help you not only identify jobs you’re interested in but help develop contacts that can get you a foot in the door.

    3. Cedrus Libani*

      Honestly, I’d see if you could borrow the address of someone who lives in the target area. It’s a much smaller ask than letting you crash on their couch indefinitely. If you get a job, do everything in your power to make sure you can show up on time without drama – run up credit card debt if you have to – and fix the problem before your work figures out that it’s a problem. I’ve seen broke friends pull this off before.

  132. Sushi-Sushi*

    How can I finding more quality networking opportunities?

    The vast majority of meetups and events on Eventbrite have been awful — more people who are there hoping that one day they might be in the industry and posturing instead of people who are actually in it.

    I work from home, so I don’t interact with people face-to-face a lot. Honestly, the best place I’ve found networking contacts is through online dating, but then you both have to find each other attractive first. So…

    What advice do you have?

    2. PseudoMona*

      I’ve used alumnae from both my undergraduate and graduate school as networking contacts.

  133. littlen*

    Ha – no questions, but my company held a workshop on managing your relationship with your supervisor today, and they recommended your book “Managing Up” and the Ask a Manager website as helpful readings. Was nice to see this blog “in the wild” so to speak!

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Oh good! My book is Managing to Change the World, just to ward off confusion about the title — but there is a Managing Up chapter in there, which is probably what they meant!

  134. Anon today...and tomorrow*

    I’m seriously peeved right now!

    My sister just emailed me her resume with a message to pass it along if there are any openings in my company. My sister has been with her current company for just over six months and before that she was out of work for seven years, by choice, to be a single stay at home mom supported by my mother and the state. I email her back that my company isn’t hiring and that I was surprised that she was looking as I thought she was happy at her current position, she’d even gotten a promotion and raise.
    She responds back with news that she’d been demoted after a few weeks in the position because she wasn’t able to handle the workload and that they took away her pay raise. Her final comment “they put me back to my original pay and it’s insulting! I work too hard for that kind of money.” set me over the edge!
    My husband gets paid the exact same amount as she does. He works in a mental health residential treatment home and I can tell you he works infinitely harder for his money than my sister does for hers. This week he had human waste thrown at him! And he had to clean up the mess after the client was sent to the hospital. It pissed me off to no end that this woman thinks that she’s too good for the pay that was perfectly acceptable just a month ago. She doesn’t have a degree, her work history is riddled with huge gaps of time where she didn’t work, and on top of that she lives with my mother and has no expenses – my mom even gave her a car so she could get back and forth to work!!!!
    I’m sorry…it just bothered me so much. First the request that I pass her crappy resume along and then the pay comment. After six months of the position (and one month with the promotion) she thinks she’s too good? GRRRRRRRRR

    1. Amy*

      Family can really suck.
      Based on all the advice I have read in AAM I think the best answer is the one you gave, there are no openings here.
      And I would prepare an answer in case she pushes back. Like it would be unprofessional of me to recommend to my employer someone with less than 1.5 years in one position.
      You might also ask if she wants your feedback – I would not compare her job/pay to your husband’s but I would think of 3 professional points that you learned in AAM and share those, something like:
      1. don’t apply with less than 1.5 years in a position
      2. she should do some research to see what is actually expected for her position – what workload, pay, etc
      3. you get the idea, pick a point to share with her.

      Good luck and if you just wanted to vent, I hear you!

      1. Drew*

        You could also say that you aren’t comfortable recommending a relative because of the company’s policy on nepotism, if they have one you can fall back on.

  135. MsMaryMary*

    A former coworker called me a few weeks ago to say she’s being promoted from her current job and wondered if I’d be interested in the open position. I was on vacation at the time, so I told her it sounded interesting and we should definitely talk. Since then I’ve reached out twice to see if we could get lunch or drinks or something. Once she was busy and the second time she didn’t respond. Today, she sent the job posting to my work email. :-|

    I want the inside scoop before I apply, on the surface the job sounds similar to what I’m doing now and it would add 20-30 minutes to my commute. If the pay, benefits, environment, etc were significantly better, I’d apply. But if not, I don’t want to waste everyone’s time. I also don’t want to burn a bridge by blowing her when she did reach out to me when she saw an opportunity. But seriously, sending the job posting to my work email???

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Some people just don’t think.

      I had a former coworker from Toxic OldJob send me links to news stories about Toxic Parent Company to my work email address after he left. I immediately deleted it without clicking and texted him saying “DUDE WTF”.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Could be an auto-suggest snafu when she typed your name in? Not great not to be more careful but easily done.

  136. Childbirth educator in training*

    Are there any childbirth educators on this thread? I am planning to get certified and would be interested in picking your brain. Which cert did you choose? Did you start or join a business? What should I be thinking about?

  137. Intrepid*

    What goes into a pitch to an online news site? I was recently invited to pitch short articles to a site based on some work I’ve done and some conversations I’ve had. While It’s something I’m really excited about, it’s also outside my professional wheelhouse. Does anyone have tips, or particularly good resources to check out?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Look up mediabistro’s ‘how to pitch’ series – loads of intel there.

  138. Xie*

    I’m working on my resume right now, as I feel like my potential for career growth has plateaued at my current company. I’m currently managing a team of 6 and performing a lot of project leader tasks (planning/monitoring/etc)… But I am not actually either a project lead or a manager! How do I put this on my resume? I am ideally looking to make a career move into this area, so I want to make it clear that I am still working underneath others who are responsible for those roles, but that I have experience and skills in this area without minimizing my impact.

  139. beanie beans*

    I just went rogue. We have some standard forms that have driven me crazy for 9 years because they default to printing a footer that prints the full document location and print date. No one has ever been able to tell me why those are important but also said we probably shouldn’t change it because “it’s always been that way.”

    I just changed it. Watch out world!

    1. Michele*

      You wild and crazy thing!
      The fallout will probably be in next year’s installation of things that people have overreacted to.

      1. beanie beans*

        Ha! It could also go on the list of things that I’VE overreacted to. So many issues in our organization and yet the thing that makes me twitchy is printing yet another form with useless footers…

    2. WhichSister*

      You have no idea how much this excites me. I work in an environment where the default answer is “No, that won’t work.” rebel when you can!

    3. ThursdaysGeek*

      And in a couple of years, someone will want that form printed, but no-one will remember where it is located. And there will be two versions, and it won’t be clear which is the more current one. There are good reasons for having that information, but it’s usually only after it’s gone that it becomes apparent. Or maybe it is totally useless – your future co-workers hope so.

      1. beanie beans*

        You are definitely right that there are times when it would be good to have that information on a form. In this specific case the file location and print date are definitely irrelevant, and since it’s a form that ultimately goes to our customers, it’s just adding irrelevant information to an already cluttered form.

        Ironically the form gets printed out and then eventually scanned into a pdf because our processes are so inefficient and ancient. Sigh. The worst is when the formatting of the footer (with larger font than the actual form) overlaps with the actual form so both are unreadable. That’s when I get really twitchy.

  140. Michele*

    I am trying to decide whether or not to complain to a security supervisor. The building and grounds where I work have fairly tight security. The company that I work for is also rather tactless when they fire someone and have security escort them out of the building. Yesterday, the cameras caught a woman with short dark hair entering the property without using her badge. There are probably more than 100 women working in this building who meet that description, including this department’s director and its admin. Well, someone in security said that I met that description, and with nothing else to go on, started roaming the building looking for me and paging me to call the security desk. So I spent the rest of the day telling people that I had not been fired, but our security department was a bunch of idiots. I feel that the entire situation made me look bad, as it definitely kicked the rumor mills into overdrive. Would it be overreacting to speak to their supervisor?

    1. Candace and Toni*

      Maybe it would be best if you spoke with your manager first? I’d share your concerns about your harm to your reputation as it seemed like they singled you out publicly without much to go on.

      1. Michele*

        My manager is extremely bad about handling things like that. He completely blows them off. He is someone who manages people because he has been here forever, but it is not his forte. He knows all of the technical stuff, but he is really bad (not ill intentioned) about the actual managing part.

        1. Sadsack*

          I think you are right to bring it up to security. I don’t see what your manager has to do with it anyway. You can mention that you don’t appreciate how they handled it and suggest that they improve their processes. I think you have a right to voice your concerns as an employee and as someone relying on their security.

  141. Lentils*

    So, I’ve accepted a job offer and I start later this month, and am leaving my current job on the 14th. My overseas boss (long story) just emailed me asking if I’d consider staying for a “reasonable salary increase.” Well, part of the reason I’ve been wanting to leave is that they’ve been paying me peanuts for over a year, despite my being a manager, but it’s also a really stressful environment for me and I don’t want to be here any longer. So there’s really nothing they could offer that would make it worth it for me to stay, and I’m tempted to tell them to stuff it (politely and professionally of course).

    BUT my friend is saying that I should see how much they’ll offer me and that I could use that number in future salary negotiations. He suggests something like “well, this new job has offered me 70k and I’d really only be willing to stay for 85k or more.” (numbers heavily exaggerated obviously) He argues that then I would know what I’m worth to them and will have that information for the future. Is this legitimate advice or would asking for that information and then still turning down the counteroffer be harmful?

    2. Sadsack*

      You will know your value to your former employer, but you already know your value based on what your new employer is paying you, assuming you feel you are getting a fair salary. I agree with Catcat that you’ll be wasting their time and I think the info you get will be meaningless I besides.

      1. Sadsack*

        Although now I am confused. Are you thinking you’d want to know how your former employer values you in case you want to work for them again? If so, whatever they’d tell you now probably won’t be relevant in a couple of years (assumption) when you might try to get back in there because you will have more experience and additional skills by then, so you would probably be looking for an even higher salary.

        1. Lentils*

          The way my friend explained it was that I could pull out that salary number in future salary negotiations for other companies, I think? I.e. “this former employee felt I was worth $x while I was doing ABC skills.” Which now that I say it sounds ridiculous, but I honestly wasn’t sure how legitimate that was, haha. Thank you and Catcat both, mostly I just wanted to check in with somebody who’d been in the workforce a little longer (friend and I are recently post-college and I’ve been at my current job 2 years).

  142. AnonForThisQuestion*

    Kind of conflicted at the moment with my current work situation. I’m in my first job of of college and have been in it for just over two years. I started as a Junior Teapot Maker, got Teapot Maker about 1.25 years in, have been given many opportunities for all sorts of programming-related tasks, and got promoted again to Senior Teapot Maker at my second annual review. I’ve been told I’m fast-tracked as I’m currently the only Senior Teapot Maker and it typically takes about 3-5 years to reach this level. The position itself is described as more of a stepping stone where the individual will eventually decide what career path they want to pursue, whether that’s Teapot Analysis, Teapot Management, etc. I want to ultimately move towards Teapot Software Development. The work environment is great, I’m happy with my compensation, and almost everyone I interact with has been nothing short of amazing.

    With that said though, I kind of feel stuck now. Since getting promoted to Senior Teapot Maker, I’ve ironically done more teapot making than I did in the second half of my time as a Teapot Maker. It was roughly about 5% teapot making but it’s now recently gone back up to 50-60% of my time. I liked teapot making when it was newer to me and under a different lead, but since the lead changed, my ideas to improve it have been shot down because they’re so resistant to change and I honestly don’t believe they’re great at managing it. The project’s also slowing down so management can’t justify putting hours towards improving the project aside from occasional critical bug fixes to the platform the teapot makers work out of.

    So the project I do as my default task when I’ve got no other tasks is slowing down, but the opportunities that kept me occupied previously have also started to become shorter and more sporadic. My main ones that can take me 1-2 months to work on come from a VP in an office in a different state and communication hasn’t been great with him recently as he’s generally unresponsive to my follow-up requests and I typically don’t get first-hand feedback from him; I often only hear it in passing from my boss if he gets word and my results have only ever been gotten positive responses. Lack of guidance and ability to interact with anyone about software development have also kind of taken a toll on me stress wise as I’m constantly working by myself and never know if I’m proceeding correctly.

    With these two factors combined, I honestly dread coming into work now, because I really dislike spending 8 hours doing teapot making and that’s only gotten more and more frequent. In my spare time, I’m improving my own software development skills and passively looking at other job opportunities but I’m getting constantly discouraged by Computer Science degree requirements that I lack and I’m not terribly inclined to take on more debt quite yet.

    At this point, I don’t know what’s going to happen. I’ve been told a shift in job responsibilities is on the horizon for me and that my company wants to help me in my development but it just lately looks like it’s being pushed back further and further and I can’t get a direct answer on anything. Changing companies looks appealing in terms of development but I also like the comfort of my current office and don’t want to end up in a bad office environment, work under a bad manager, etc.. Since I’m still relatively young in my professional life, is this something I’m just overreacting to? Should I try to tough it out another year? Look for opportunities elsewhere? Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Why not start a job search? You’re not committing yourself to leaving if you start searching. See what else is out there. What you find out when you interview is likely to give you more information about whether it’s a good idea to stay or go.

    2. Xie*

      Have you mentioned these concerns to your manager? I’m not sure about your working environment, but I would try to make it clear where my interests were, what strengths I was looking to build and what my expectations were. Only after this conversation would I recommend looking for other opportunities.

      I keep hearing of all these companies that boast about offering “great career growth opportunities”, and then try to shoehorn people into career paths that they don’t have strong skills for or are simply not interested in. It feels like they’re setting people up to fail.

      1. AnonForThisQuestion*

        I actually did in a meeting we had (along with the VP) shortly after my promotion. While we’re clear on where my interests lie, and what sort of career path I’m looking to work down, they dancing around a lot of issues so I’ve had to do a lot of figuring things out on my own. I have an upcoming semi-annual performance review and do intend to address some concerns (old and new), but as much as I know that my manager has nothing but absolute confidence in my ability and wants to get me there as quickly as possible, we both know that the career path I want to go down is outside of his ballpark.

  143. Jennifer Needs a Thneed*

    Okay, let’s talk typefaces. Who likes what typeface for resumes? I know this is very much individual choice and I’m curious to hear what people think.

    I used to be staunchly in favor of Times New Roman for everything, but then I had a couple of contracts where I had to use san serif fonts (Ariel, Verdana, Something Else) and after I got used to them my TNR resume is looking very … busy? Just from the typeface, not anything else about the format.

    (And I’ll just say here that I hate the M$ Word heading styles. Hate hate hate, especially how they’re colored type and not very saturated. (I still assume that things will be printed out on a b/w printer and maybe I’m out of touch on that? I’ve been in orgs of a wide range of sizes.) I change up all my heading styles to better match my body text type – same typeface, different sizes, everything is black, some things are bolded or italicized.)

    Also, I assume that I should use the same typeface for the cover and thank-you letters. But I’m wondering about my writing samples. They’re in a variety of typefaces and I’m wondering if I should standardize things. What do y’all think? You’re all nice and opinionated, like me, and I like that in a person.

    1. H.C.*

      For resumes/cover letters/thank yous, I don’t have a strong preference for typefaces as long as it’s not distracting from the content (overly embellished, emulates cursive, etc.) and I would say no more than 2 typefaces on a single document, a primary one and then another as an accent if needed.

      However, I would not tinker with the writing samples typefaces. It is completely normal for those to be different than your resume/cover letter, since they are documents you made on behalf of a client/employer, thus following their style guidelines rather than your personal one.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      Mine are always standardized anyway, or all but, since I refuse to use anything other than TNR or Ariel. I don’t find TNR busy, but maybe I’m just biased?

      I don’t think you have to make the formatting all match, but I probably would, because that’s how I am. *shrug* I mean, as long as none of them are in something really specific and less professional (Comic Sans… )

      I’d never assume things are printed out, though.

      1. Jennifer's Well-Trained Thneeds*

        > I’d never assume things are printed out, though.

        Oh, I should clarify. I know that some of my docs are only viewed onscreen and others are often viewed onscreen (depends on the org), and I work with that and use internal links, hyperlinked tables of content, and so forth.

        But a lot of what I create is software or business process how-to guides, with step-by-step instructions that includes screenshots. For those, I always assume that they’ll be printed out and make sure they won’t suffer from that. I pay attention to the formatting to guide how people use the document. And my footers always include “page x of y” and the date, so people have a reasonable chance of catching something that’s too old to trust. And for those documents, I really dislike M$’s light-blue headers.

        And Comic Sans. Oy. Vielen dank!

    3. katamia*

      I would never not hire someone solely because their fonts weren’t standardized, but I would notice and give an approving nod if they were. Given two otherwise equal candidates, I’d probably choose the one who did standardize.

      A lot of people seem to be big on sans serif fonts these days, but I find them harder to read, especially on screens. I use TNR for everything “professional” right now because it’s on the small side (meaning I can fit more in) and because, while not everyone likes it, it’s objectively pretty inoffensive.

      1. Jennifer Loves Her Some Thneeds*

        Your comment is interesting, because a lot of the san serif typefaces have been designed specifically with screens in mind. AND YET you find it harder to read on screens. I like anecdata a lot just because I don’t really trust “experts” unless they include citations. Thank you muchos.

        1. katamia*

          Yeah, I find a lot of the thin letters like i, l, and sometimes t or even j hard to read–they all kind of squish together for me, and it’s really hard to tell the difference between i and lowercase l in Arial and a lot of other sans serif fonts. I don’t have that problem with serif fonts.

        2. Ann O.*

          My understanding of the serif vs. san serif and screens is that serif fonts can get swimmy for people. I never had that problem, but now that I deal with chronic eye strain, I face that a lot.

    4. Zinnia*

      I always recommend TNR or Arial. Simple, easy to read, unlikely to offend anyone.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I keep my default at 12 point TNR because it’s a standard for manuscripts. The info block on my letterhead is Segoe UI Light, but the rest of the letter template is in TNR.

        On my resume, it’s all TNR with a little bold and italic here and there. I tried doing headings in Segoe, but it looked strange.

        2. Jessesgirl72*

          Tahoma isn’t too bad for headings. It’s nice and dark, at least, and not too over the top.

    5. QA grump 42*

      I use Computer Modern, which is the default font for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX, for any document it makes sense to send in .pdf form. My reasons:
      1. I find WYSIWYG word processors really confusing to use, because there’s important formatting information that’s kind of hidden, so if I want a document to look *just right*, doing it with LaTeX will probably go faster and involve less swearing.
      2. Computer Modern is highly recognizable to people with certain technical backgrounds, and probably on average makes me seem more technically competent.
      3. It’s good enough. Using a non-default font would involve making an aesthetic choice, which is hard.

    6. voluptuousfire*

      I like Century Gothic, usually 11 pt. It’s clean, easy to read and pretty classic. That’s what my resume is in.

    7. valc2323*

      Our corporate standard is Calibri 11-pt for documents, and I’ve learned to love it. We use Myriad Web Pro for Powerpoint.

      also you can change the font color on those standard heading presets :) I often make mine at least a darker blue, even if I leave them colored.

  144. Book Cover*

    Sooooo… the director of my organization (aka my Grandboss) just announced her retirement. The letter was very, very… her. Part of me wants to send it in to AAM just for the laughs because it is ridiculous. Part of me really doesn’t want to because it is very identifying. But… there was this line about all of the awards she… I mean, the whole organization, received and how she, I mean, the organization, had an impact on the people we serve (almost worded exactly like that!).

  145. New to NP Development*

    Hi everyone! I’m a relatively new (1.5 years) nonprofit development professional and I’m adjusting to working in a very small office. I’m the only non-program staff in our org, so my direct supervisor is the Executive Director. I don’t feel like I can adequately manage “my department” because I’m at a lower level — I worry that my ED expects me to take more ownership of things, but I struggle to do that when I’m not asked to join meetings with high level donors, foundations, participate in the development planning, and so forth (though I’m technically responsible for grants, fundraising events, etc.). I also feel bad that I can’t take things off her plate, because she’s the ED and I know she has many things to work on. Any advice for taking ownership and feeling empowered in my work when 1) I don’t have a development team to draw on and collaborate with and 2) I can’t participate in the higher level work and strategic planning because I don’t have the standing? TIA!

  146. Resi Lence*

    Seeking help on preparing for an internal interview! I realized last night that my usual set of questions for the interviewer(s) are ones I asked when I interviewed for my current position–two of them do not even apply since I am already familiar with the organization and goals for the upcoming year. I haven’t seen any posts (so far in my search) on this site for questions to ask when interviewing internally. Any suggestions for what to ask?
    Thanks!

    1. Jennifer Has Advice About Thneeds*

      Two things:

      One, don’t worry about repeating yourself from your original interview. It was likely at least a year ago, and probably won’t even be with the same people. And if the company is big enough, this department might have a different view of organizational goals etc.

      Two, a lot of the questions about the position are still appropriate: why is it open, what has the turnover been like, is it a new position, what’s the manager’s communication style like (I’m assuming that this is a position with a different manager), what kind of hours does the department keep, etc. And stuff about “what does this position want to accomplish in the first 3/6/12 months”. And maybe a delicate question about what challenges the previous person in the role had, to see if you’ll also have that issue. And remember that if you know the new manager personally, or know any of the department members, you still don’t know what they’re like to work with.

      And remember that you’re still interviewing them, right? Know what’s important to you in a work environment and ask if you’ll be getting that. Because, again, I don’t know how big your company is, so I’m assuming you don’t know this stuff.

      1. Resi Lence*

        It’s actually a small organization, so I know why the position is open, the manager’s (who is my manager now and who did interview me the first time) managerial style, etc. I usually ask about upcoming goals/foreseeable challenges (which I already know) and challenges in the last year (which I was there for).

        1. Jennifer Interviews Thneeds*

          You can certainly say “I understand the company’s goals/challenges are xyz and currently that affects abc aspect of my work. Can you tell me what might be different in this department/position?” In other words, don’t assume that your manager knows what you do or don’t know. Demonstrate it to them in the interview setting. You might be surprised by how they respond. Your manager probably has information about the company that you don’t have.

          Also, you might not know all the details about why the previous person left, just because you probably weren’t in the manager’s head while she was managing them.

          Also, if the manager knows you well because you’re already working with them, you can use that! “You’ve got a good sense of my working style. Can you tell me how this new job will play to my strengths of xyz?” Because that way you’re signaling what you think your strengths are (again: don’t assume your manager knows what you know) and you’ll probably have an interesting conversation about aspects of the position that you don’t know about.

          Ooh, now I’m excited for you. Please report back!

          1. Resi Lence*

            Now that you’ve unpacked that, thanks so much!!! You’ve managed to extend the questions that I usually ask, and my mind just couldn’t get me there. After I posted earlier, I came up with this: “I’m already fairly familiar with this role, but what (if anything) would you hope to see from the next person in this position that may not have been accomplished or taken up by those previously?”

            (In other words, what are some examples of ways that I can exceed your expectations given the scope of this position).

            Now I’m feeling like a bad*ss! :D

    2. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      You may be familiar with the organization’s goals for the next year, but how is this position supposed to help attain those goals? How is the department contributing to those goals? That would be a good direction to take.

  147. Going anon for this one.*

    So at our division meeting yesterday (the first in over a year), our CIO bragged about transparency. He’s also the first CIO to ever take his work Google Calendar and not only make it so that all events show up as “busy” (a valid choice for plenty of reasons), but hide the calendar completely. Pretty emblematic of him in general.

    Good times here, as damned near our entire organization is looking for jobs elsewhere.

  148. long time lurker*

    So I have three questions, and I’m hoping that someone wiser and more experienced can help.

    1) I know that a resume normally shouldn’t be over a page for entry level, but how *short* can it be? My resume is currently less than a page long, and I’m worried that hiring managers will want to see more detail. Is taking up 70% of the page too little? 80%?

    2) Following the great advice on this website, I’ve rephrased a lot on my resume to show accomplishments rather than job duties. My current job essentially involves two parts, one that’s geared more towards data analysis and one that’s focused on communication. It’s easier for me to think of accomplishments in the latter area since my work there is public and often praised. But I want to go into data analysis, and it’s harder to think of accomplishments in this area. Does anyone have any tips for coming up with accomplishments as they pertain to analysis?

    3) I’ve picked up on some basic skills in SAS (mostly about creating data sets and combining data sets) and SQL (joins, aggregate functions, group by, order by, etc.) in my downtime outside of work since I’ve become interested in going into data analysis. I’ve listed these on my resume, but would this be useful to know for any hiring manager? As I said, they’re basic skills and nothing to brag about, but I was wondering if they at least counted for something.

    1. LK*

      1) if you can fill 80% of a page then you can fiddle with margins, font sizes, paragraph or line spacing, etc enough to make it seem like a full page I am sure :) I would aim for 80% or whole page….. half page resumes always seem kinda….sad? to me….. like even if the info is great and what I need, it makes me instantly think that they’re green and untested regardless of whether that’s true.

      2) what are you deliverables for data analysis? What’s your end product? I would start there with regards to itemizing accomplishments. Consistently creating thorough and flawless data sets and easy-to-interpret results (as a very vague and potentially inaccurate example) is absolutely an accomplish.

      3) If you’re looking to fill a page, they’re not something that would harm your chance – they’re either neutral or positive and they’re not something that’s taking a space that something more useful would otherwise occupy. I would keep them in the resume until you can easily fill a full page and need to be choosier about what you list.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Someone once hired me for a freelance gig after I sent in an 0.75-page resume.

        He said it was a relief!

      2. long time lurker*

        The data analysis I do is basically a means to an end. It’s how I figure out what the “problem” is, and then I address the problem through communication. The communication is the end product, but I’m worried that because of that, the focus of my resume won’t be on the analysis.

    2. The Foreign Octopus*

      An amazing tip I’ve discovered recently is to search the document for the full stops (.) and change their size from 12 to 14. It makes no discernible difference in the layout or the size of the font but it makes the document longer. I’ve done this with documents that I’ve worked on that I felt were a little too short and it fills the page like magic. You can’t tell that the full stops are different sizes to the rest of the document.

  149. Book Cover*

    Also… anyone here familiar with speaking up when the technical aspect of your job’s communication system really doesn’t work for you?

    Basically, we run on two different systems for communication: a Sharepoint discussion board connected to our Office 365 accounts, and a spreadsheet. Through the discussion board, assignments are posted and we are supposed to “claim” them publicly through comments within 48 hours. After a week, all of the assignments are looked over and if nobody has claimed them, they are assigned. We are then responsible for placing the info on the spreadsheet and our calendars, and after the event, to put info into the spreadsheet. This is very, very overwhelming for my ADHD brain, and too much is going on at once for me to even process it properly, let alone follow up.

    Our old system worked pretty well. It was made up of direct emails and while we had a spreadsheet, we would follow up after events by filling in a quick survey. One and done kinda stuff. Emails also meant we got all of the information for the event immediately, didn’t have to chat publicly about things when you are confused about them (I have been the target of office bullying, so I’m hyperaware of everything I do now).

    The reason why we moved to this method is that my colleagues who are on the same level keep on “assigning” us to do events they have booked (one person in particular), give no followup info (and none of this was ever in writing), and give you the cold shoulder if you say you can’t take it (or worse). Basically, it’s a way for my boss it monitor this one person and prevent her tactics. It’s not working, and has actually encouraged the same sort of stuff from other people.

    Should I talk to my boss about this? How do I talk to my boss about this if I do?

  150. Candace and Toni*

    To all the recruiters out there, can you share your insight on how you choose candidates for initial phone screenings? I’ve heard rumors that there are job submission apps that will scan candidates’ resumes and auto reject ones that don’t include certain keywords. Not sure if there’s any validity to that, but I also can’t imagine pouring over 100s of resumes to find 10 or so candidates. Just c urious :)

    1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      When I’ve been on hiring committees, each committee member received a portion of the resumes. The first process through was just to see who met minimum qualifications, e.g. had the degree or years experience we were requiring. Typically that would drop 150 applications to about 30-40. From there we gave each resume (and cover letter!!) a point for each additional job duty they possessed. If any of the resumes were from networking (the Dean has recommended we look at this guy) then that resume was definitely taken for a phone interview. We looked at the remaining resumes to see point totals and found a value that would give us about 10 left. Then we discussed each one for any concerns that stood out or impressive features. We always tried to aim for 7-8 phone interviews, then would cut that down to 3 in person interviews.

      I’m sure for much larger corporations the review process is different. I do know there is software that can help process applications, but I don’t think it’s as effective as having actual eyes on the application. Almost every single in-person interview we had was with someone whose cover letter expanded the resume brilliantly and answered our questions before we could even ask them. It backfilled and gave those points to get them into an interview.

      My University is also a bitch about quantifying applications to prove there is no discrimination. We typically covered up the name of the applicant with a post it note when we came down to evaluating those last few dozen.

    2. voluptuousfire*

      Not a recruiter, but recruitment admin. In my current role, we use our ATS and look at resumes a few times a week for open roles. The ones that fit what we’re looking for, we reach out to. No key words. :)

      One job I had a questionnaire attached to each of the roles. For the roles that required test scores (test prep), the questions were weighted so that if someone didn’t answer the question to what we needed, it would put them in the rejected bucket. I always checked it do ensure we didn’t miss anyone since who may have filled out things correctly, but generally speaking, I reviewed every resume that came in.

      I personally think the ‘scan and reject” thing is a myth. Theres an ATS called Jobvite that has a feature where if you login to your account, it will show you all the applications you’ve applied to within companies that use it and I’d say the majority of them were at “new” or whatever status the company used to indicate my resume hadn’t been moved forward. My resume does have keywords in it that would bring me up in a search, but I’d reckon that’s more for LinkedIn or if your resume is on one of the job boards.

    3. CAA*

      I look at every resume that’s submitted for one of the positions I’m hiring for, and yes, that means into the hundreds in most cases. Most of them I reject within 20 to 30 seconds because they’re obviously wildly under- or over-qualified for the role or they’re non-citizens applying for positions that need security clearances. I tag a few of my rejects for other managers if they’re not what I’m looking for, but it looks like they might be qualified for a different position.

      I can usually get through the initial keep/reject scan on 100 resumes in 2 hours, though I don’t let them stack up that deep unless I’ve been on vacation. Usually I prefer to spend a few minutes every day looking at what’s come in. Typically I have about 20% that get into the keep pile for a real read through, and up to half of those will get a phone interview. The actual percentage depends on the time of year, if there are a lot of new grads out there applying for everything, and whether a large local employer has laid people off recently, and so on. Some candidate pools have a lot of high quality applicants and others just don’t.

    4. Salmon Maki*

      I’m not a recruiter, but I am a hiring manager. I look at every resume and tell the recruiter if I want them to do a phone screen. I work in a very specific field, and even telling the recruiter exactly what I’m looking for is no substitution for my own judgement.

  151. Jessen*

    How do you focus when your job is incredibly boring? I’m in call center quality control. I think anyone would be bored with this job. A lot of it is just looking at two screens and making sure they match. Because it’s a call center, my breaks are fixed, and I’m expected to be constantly working when I’m not on break – so no 5min to refocus or anything. Any tips?

    1. Candace and Toni*

      Are you allowed to wear headphones? When I did data entry back in the day. it was so monotonous and boring. What saved me from falling asleep was talk radio!

      1. Jessen*

        No headphones. I have to be available at all times to answer the phone as well, even when it doesn’t ring often.

        I should note there’s also no company wifi, and we can’t really play anything through our computers. So anything streaming would eat into my data.

      1. Jessen*

        Not that I can think of. There’s not really any overarching goal other than “get through as many screens as you can in a day.” And generally doing anything except looking at your computer screen comparing isn’t allowed.

  152. sugarplum*

    I know there are some former & recovering academics around here… for those of you trained in academia but now on the outside, how did you decide to leave? Was it circumstantial? Did you leave on purpose because you no longer *wanted* to be in the Ivory Tower, or was it something else?

    I’m pretty sure I’m ready to leave, but… the Academic Cult is real and I can’t decide. So many of the pieces I read about leaving the academy, though, are from people who seem to hated it or were miserable or who realized that academia wasn’t for them, but somehow that doesn’t ring entirely true for me and I’m having trouble thinking this through. Ugh.

    1. Manders*

      Hey, my partner just left academia this year. He was ABD but his department was such a huge mess that he couldn’t have finished his dissertation without going into debt. He’s definitely happier and healthier now and has told me many times that he’s glad he quit.

      Some of the many questions I asked him during the years he was considering leaving:
      – There’s a really good chance that you’ve been taught to ignore or downplay your mental health. Are you possibly burned out or dealing with a mental health issue right now? Could rest and/or treatment help with that? Can you take adequate care of your mental health without jeopardizing your work right now?
      – What drew you to academia? Private high schools and community colleges LOVE snapping up former professors who want to prioritize teaching over research. Some for-profit industries want to snap up people who prefer research to teaching. Think about what you want your day to day work to look like. Did either of those options excite you more than what you’re doing right now?
      – Take a look at how you’re treating your body and your brain. What are you eating? How’s your sleep schedule? Do you have time to exercise? Do you have time to see friends regularly? Do you have time for hobbies? If you’re skipping out on everything else to get more work time in, do you think that’s sustainable?
      – Think about job prospects in your field and whether they match the other things you want in life. Do you want to be near a big city? Do you want to have kids by a certain age? Do you have a romantic partner, or do you want to have one? Do you want pets? Can you have those things and also hold down steady work in academia?

      There is A Lot to think about here and you may have to tackle some of these questions over months or years.

    2. over educated*

      I’ve never looked at it as black and white. I worked outside of academia seasonally and part time throughout grad school, and then applied and interviewed for both academic and non-academic jobs. My best offers turned out to be non-academic, the only academic one I got was a one year postdoc, so I moved on. Honestly, I think that the frame of reference that is Academia vs. Everywhere Else is a kind of naive symptom of the “Academic Cult.” Everywhere Else is huge and has at least as many huge differences between sectors and types of organizations as academia from others. It’ not just a choice between two things, there is such a huge range of work out there.

      What I was glad to get away from: pressure to publish and win grants, feeling like I had to “prove” that my research was super important and I was super accomplished all the time. There’s a lot of ego in academia and I really didn’t like having to play that part of the game. I didn’t want to spend years stressing about tenure. I also like working more collaboratively, academic research in my field is quite isolating most of the year.

      What I miss surprisingly much: The feeling of creative control of my work, being able to explore things that are exciting to me rather than having other people give me direction, and people looking to me as an expert. I am suprised to find myself distressed that “professors” and even advanced grad stduents are considered experts, but not people with PhDs who are doing applied work, so I guess I miss the ego element a little too. Also, THE ACADEMIC CALENDAR. Summer and winter vacation! I have no sympathy for friends who say “yeah, I may be traveling all summer/January, but I’m also going to bring research WITH me to the month I’m spending with family. I never get a break.” Well, I never get a break either, because I have 13 days of vacation a year and work is only closed on federal holidays. I know for a fact that they spend a lot more than 13 days a year not working. I really miss that.

      Ironically, there will not be long term funding for my position and my spouse is an academic, so we are still moving around the country looking for a permanent place to land. I haven’t entirely ruled out a future in academia, since I have to get a new job pretty soon anyway. But I’m not publishing actively or teaching right now, so I suspect that door may be closed. Two of my professors told me it’s a lot easier to go from academia to other sectors than to get back in, and they’re probably right. I’ve met a couple people who got back in but they basically did it by never sleeping so they could publish a lot. I like sleep.

      Good luck with your decision and job search! There is no “right” path, just whatever path you make.

    3. Cedrus Libani*

      I’m in the process of leaving. I finished my PhD, but honestly my research wasn’t very successful, and it would take a lot to overcome that and get a professorship. That said, I realized midway through my doctorate that I wasn’t going to stay in academia. My considerations were:

      By far the #1 issue…I don’t have the temperament for academic work. I love solving puzzles, and if I do say so myself, I’m very good at it. But I need concrete deliverables, and deadlines, and multiple irons in the fire. If my only job is to think important thoughts…and the evaluation of said thoughts is subjective, political, and/or luck-dependent…I’m an anxious, avoidant, red-hot mess. The thought of writing grants for a living makes me want to drink myself cross-eyed. No thanks.

      And yes, money and lifestyle was a factor. You can’t eat prestige. And realistically, very few people get the prestige jobs, but the lifestyle trade-off is massive. When I was an undergrad, it sounded like an adventure – take a postdoc abroad, take another postdoc on the other side of the country, see the world. Now I’m north of 30, I have a partner with a well-paying, stable job, I have family, friends, and hobbies in PhD city, and I REALLY don’t want to leave. Especially not for a series of low-pay, long-hours, temporary jobs, and even more especially when the prize at the end of that rainbow involves teaching Chocolate 101 every semester to a bunch of apathetic 19 year olds at a school nobody’s heard of, in a backwater town with no jobs for my partner and some level of open hostility to “our kind”, and that’s if we’re reasonably lucky.

    4. Ann O.*

      I quit ABD when several of my committee members changed universities. I have a small amount of sadness that I never defended because I had a complete draft of my dissertation, but mostly no regrets.

      For me, it was pretty straightforward. I loved coursework and research (so not one of the miserable/hated it people), but I followed the graduates from my department and almost no one got tenure track work. I was getting older and tired of having no money. The idea of chasing lecture position after post doc and constantly relocating was not appealing at all.

      I never bought into the Academic Cult, though. It always seemed strange to me that I was selected for my program because I was considered good at analysis and recognizing systems, yet I wasn’t supposed to notice the non-existent job market or the abusive power dynamics. I think it’s a shame that more doctoral programs don’t build embrace non-academia more because I think the training in a lot of programs is valuable.

    5. Ally*

      I am considering leaving at the moment. Looking from the outside, it seems like I have it made – tenure track job, decent city, all that. But my department is wildly dysfunctional and I don’t trust that the tenure process will be fair or trustworthy. I’m also very under-paid. All of this has made me re-evaluate my options, and academia as a whole.

      So, I’ve (tried) to write a non-academic resume and cover letter and send it out to jobs in the last month, and we’ll see where it gets me. I’ll also be applying to other universities this cycle, because maybe it’s just this job that has me hating life? I can’t quite tell right now, but I have never been the most enthusiastic researcher or publisher, even though my book will come out in the Spring. It’s hard to make the leap out of everything you’ve known, though, and I am good at my job, despite what my horrible boss thinks.

  153. Expert Teaport Researcher*

    Hello everyone! I’m a first time poster here (but long time reader!) and I hope you can help me with formatting my resume. My problem is, other than a couple of summer jobs, I started working at my current company right after uni, and stayed there for five years. During this time, I’ve switched departments, received promotions, and went through company-wide reorgs. I have no idea how to reflect all of that in my resume without devoting half a page to what essentially is two or three jobs.

    So, that’s what my work history here looks like:

    2012 May – 2012 Jun – Intern
    2012 Jul – 2013 Dec – Kettle Analyst
    2014 Jan – 2015 Aug – Teapot Analyst (both a promotion and a change of departments)
    2015 Sep – 2016 Dec – Senior Teapot Analyst (a promotion)

    And here’s when it goes completely crazy. Due to reorganization, all our titles were switched, and an HR mess ensued. Formally, these were my positions:

    2017 Jan – 2017 Feb – Teapot (yes, just Teapot, due to HR mistake)
    2017 Mar – Senior Teapot Specialist (still the same position, just renamed)
    2017 Apr – Teapot Expert (a promotion)
    2017 May – Expert Teapot Researcher (our titles were updated to show our new responsibilities, and Teapot Researcher is a prestigeous position in my industry)

    Any ideas how to show my career progress without including all the titles, and how to reflect the HR screwup without saying that I worked as a… Teapot?

    1. H.C.*

      I would remove any titles that doesn’t reflect an actual promotion or change in responsibilities, so in your case:

      1. Consolidate Sr. Teapot Analyst & Sr. Teapot Specialist, depending what better reflects your duties, and eliminate Teapot
      2. Consolidate Teapot Expert & Expert Teapot Researcher

      In the unlikely event that the title discrepancy comes up after a background check, you can explain the HR renames & mistakes.

      1. Expert Teaport Researcher*

        Thanks! It makes sense, but the problem is, I did different work after the reorg in 2017 that I did as the Senior Teapot Analyst in 2016, but the position name was only formally changed in May, and only after I already was promoted to the Expert title. It’s a bit hard to consolidate the titles so that my responsibilities are grouped.

        And it still leaves me with 5 job titles. Isn’t it too excessive? Won’t it look silly on my resume? Am I overly paranoid?

        1. H.C.*

          I’d still argue for some consolidation, since it still looks like you went through 4 positions in the 5 months of 2017. If it helps, reframe your resume for the perspective of potential employers & your professional network & what title(s) would actually make sense to them, since they don’t really need to know the nitty gritty of role reorgs in your CurrentJob.

  154. Unemployed again*

    If I apply for a job and tell the state unemployment office about it to show I’m actively looking, what happens next on the company’s end? Does this make my application look bad, or otherwise hurt my odds of being hired?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      The unemployment office isn’t likely to check up on your applications so it shouldn’t cause any issues.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yeah, they just want to see that you’re actively applying to stuff. When I was on it in 2012, I had to meet with someone at the office about halfway through, but that was when we still had tiers of unemployment (thanks Obama). I kept all that in a spreadsheet and just brought it with me to show her, instead of filling out the paper forms; they were fine with that. Now, they have an online page where you enter your weekly claim and list the places you applied there. No tiers this time; I ran out already. :(

  155. Liane*

    (Alison, if you think this is more Weekend than Work thread, please remove & I will repost.)

    Most of the longtime commentors know that I am an amateur costumer/cosplayer. I am an officer at the regional (3 states in this case & I am the person in charge of 1 of them) level for an international group of costumers for a very popular movie franchise (yeah, you guessed it) that appears at events of all sizes and kinds–libraries, parades, charity fundraisers, hospital visits, publicity by Famous Studio and its licensees, even parties.
    My position includes helping pending members get their costumes approved, coordinating appearances, and helping the regional leader with organization stuff. “Coordinating” (the biggest part of my job) means I get the requests for my geographic area (the club’s website sends them to me), contact the person/organization making the request, and notify local members.

    My question/woe/PSA: As often as not, I get these requests at the last minute! By which I mean 2 weeks or less notice. We’re all volunteers (and in my state there only a few members, although our sister organization is well-represented) and a lot of people want Movie costumers at their event. Many of these are for charity and/or kids, things members really love helping with.
    If it’s close to me and I don’t have anything planned, sure I will usually come, and there’s a woman in Other City the same way. But often, there isn’t anyone able to make a given event. Yes, it can happen with events requested a couple months ahead, but it is way more likely if it is just 2 weeks away. And then I get to tell the organizers that no one dressed as Movie Heroes is going to be there. :(
    I do it nicely and most are understanding: “I am sorry that no costumers from Movie Club can attend Event [on date]. We’d love to be there next year/at your next event. Please make your request earlier and you can contact me directly.” (There is no requirement they go through my organization’s online request form.) I am also upfront–no matter how much lead time–that we are volunteers so we may not have anyone available and I can’t guarantee someone in Specific Costume will be there.

    The Question: Any better wording?

    The PSA: If you work for a library, school, charity, nonprofit, retailer, sports team, whatever and you want fan/volunteer costumer groups–please ask as early as possible. When you decide you’d like us there (I understand if you just found out about us or whatever–that’s cool!) or when you get vendors, donors, etc. lined up. It’s not just to increase the chances we’ll be at your event. Maybe there are things you didn’t think about or know before you got with me: For profit groups may need to contact Studio as well as us. Where are the costumers changing? Do you need to check with someone else before getting back to me on prop weapons, parking, and/or comp tickets?

    (Yes I have met some actors and behind the scenes people–they are all wonderful folks.)

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Can you be more specific about what kind of lead time you’d ideally want? Like this: “In general, if you can give us X weeks notice, we’re more likely to be able to attend. We’d love to be there next time!”

      Otherwise they may be picturing something very different than you are about lead time.

      1. Liane*

        Thanks, Alison!
        I think it’s about equally that some have no idea of a good lead time (it’s not covered on the main site) and others are upfront that they know it’s last minute but worth a try, which is cool.
        I’d say about 2 months is good for most things–and I don’t need to know every detail at that point–date, time, location are enough. The busiest 3 times seem to be February, when the Cub Scout packs have their banquet; Summer (lots of library and other kid programs); and around Halloween. Maybe a couple more weeks for those times.
        And usually the people who have made “last minute” requests are understanding. It’s mostly that I don’t like having to say we can’t make it, anything that might make it more likely we can come is a Win-Win, and this is the thing I have a chance of changing.

    2. paul*

      It turns my head and chaps my ass when NGO’s/AVO’s, hell, even local governments etc throw an event but don’t start recruiting until a couple of weeks before for attendees–both volunteers and partner organizations.

      We *all* have stuff on our calendar, and the odds are pretty good they’ve had the venue reserved for at least a month or so ahead of time. We had to nto go to an important event because were asked to attend literally 2 days before we flew out of state for a conference this year; it hurt relationships, but at that point we were already committed you know? With more warning we could have, say, rescheduled for a later flight for at least one of us.

    3. A. Non*

      I think that wording (plus maybe what Alison gave you above) is perfectly fine. After having requested from what may actually be your org in my area, you guys were wonderful! I also made sure to make the request four or five months in advance because I am insane like that, but I also made sure to be prompt about answering costume changing questions etc.

      You guys are volunteers. It’s not a paid gig, and even if you guys love it, you have to have notice. Actually, you guys should probably get more notice than if you were being paid for it, since you have to fit it around other commitments! Go with the wording and absolve yourself of guilt. 90% of the things you listed require calendars to be done months in advance. Emailing you guys should be part of the set up, not last minute.

  156. WS*

    Small rant time.

    My boss (and owner of the company) owns a number of rental properties in the area, including a number of properties within a block or two of the office. For some reason he tells his tenants to drop their rent checks off with us, which has always made me a little uncomfortable because I don’t want to be responsible if that check goes missing in the office before my boss gets in and it reaches him! The guy who came in today didn’t even know who to make the check out to and got angry that we couldn’t tell him if it was made out to our boss or our boss’s partner (!!).

    Yesterday just took the cake though. I had driven to an off-site meeting with my boss and on the way back he stoppped at one of his new properties to check on how the renovations were going and to talk to the contractor. Since the apartment was several towns over in an area I wasn’t familiar with I couldn’t find my own transportation back to the office. I was stuck there for 30-40 minutes while my boss checked up on things.

    Dropping checks off is annoying and everyone hates it, but deals with it because he’s the boss. But taking care of landlord work when you’re with an employee who’s relying on you for transportation back to the office just seems really out of line to me…

    1. katamia*

      Could you get a small lockbox or something for the office and put all rent checks in there to keep them safer? I’d be uncomfortable with that, too.

  157. floating*

    What do you do when someone on your team just doesn’t get it?

    I have a unique situation in which I’m a part of a team that doesn’t really have a direct manager. We’re a group of floaters in the office that reports to HR technically, but we don’t have anyone monitoring our day to day operations. Great for autonomy, bad for dealing with problems within our team. I’m the most senior person on our team. Been here for a whopping three months – there’s quick turnover by nature, it’s a program designed to grow talent within the company and move you into whatever department you’re interested in. My seniority comes with a lot of de facto responsibility – people in the office look to me for their questions, as do the other two members of the team even though I’ve only been there a few weeks longer than them.

    My one coworker is driving me absolutely crazy. He just doesn’t seem to understand the basic tenants of the job. Most of it is common sense, and he has none of it. Some of our responsibilities are just office maintenance – placing supply orders, sending out the mail, keeping the office in order. It all seems to baffle him. He didn’t know where envelopes were, which is preposterous after 2 months on the job when mail is one of our primary responsibilities, and still couldn’t find them after I told him 3 times. An assistant asked him to send her a copy of our floor plan and he sent her one from 2010. Of our old office. When there were only 10 employees. And now there’s 85. He admitted the other day that he didn’t know how to scan things. Assistants will specifically avoid calling reception when they know he’s at the desk (we rotate every few hours). Things like this happen constantly, and I’m so exhausted.

    It wouldn’t bother me so much if he were a team player, but he’s not. A somewhat undesirable task came in recently, and he was the only team member who was free to do it. After moaning about it for 20 minutes, he finally agreed but said ‘I don’t want anyone to bother me about anything else for the rest of the day.’ His idea of a joke, but rubbed me the wrong way. I told him it wasn’t funny, and I didn’t appreciate it. We’re all working hard, and statements like that are demoralizing and unproductive.

    I finally went to our HR manager to tell her about his performance. Before I could even say anything, she goes “Oh, yes. It’s lackluster at best.” She assured me that our team’s performance doesn’t go unnoticed, even though there isn’t direct supervision. She said she was going to sit down and talk to him about his plans at the company. She also assured me that she knows I’ve been doing more than my fair share, and wanted me to know that I’m very valued! So the conversation went well, but I’m still feeling kind of down about it all.

    Quite frankly, I don’t know how much longer I can work on this team with him. Even if HR talks to him, what actionable, constructive advice she can give him when she doesn’t actively manage us? I’m not quite sure what actionable, constructive advice there even IS for someone who was just a bad hire. The attitude can be worked out, sure. But in terms of common sense? That’s more difficult. I don’t know how you can get someone to think smarter, work harder, and just be more resourceful. There might be a promotion on the horizon for me soon, but if it doesn’t happen, I’m going to have to look elsewhere. I like my company, but I am really starting to resent coming into work just to explain how FedEx works for the 40th time.

    1. Fabulous*

      Does he have written notes to consult? If not, I’d have him start writing everything down somewhere and make a manual of “How To’s” that you can direct him to with every question. At least that way the only response you’ll need is “Have you checked your notes?” rather than walking him through the tast for the umpteenth time.

      1. floating*

        Yep, he was given a 20 page department bible and a checklist of our recurring daily tasks when he started. I should definitely be better about directing him to that. I get so frustrated that most of the time I just wind up doing things myself because it’s faster, but it’s not beneficial to anyone.

        Sometimes it’s like he thinks I have special knowledge that he’s not privy to. He asked me the other day how to use tape. I don’t have any magical tape techniques! You just tape! Moments like that are when I really lose my patience.

        1. Gingerblue*

          I’m filing “I don’t have any magical tape techniques” away under “Nonsequiturs to use whenever possible”.

    2. Observer*

      Well, sometimes the apparent lack of common sense is really a reflection of attitude. You know, I can’t be bothered to spend 2 seconds thinking about it. I can’t be bothered to ask someone to show me how to scan. I can’t be bothered to take notes. I can’t be bothered, so I don’t know anything and I don’t care.

      That would normally not be my first step, but given what else you describe, I think it’s really possible.

      The truth is that the concrete actionable guidance she can give him is “You need to start pitching in without complaining about it. You need stop . You need to pay attention to what people are asking for and actually fulfill those requests properly rather than throwing something at them. You need to find out where all of the supplies you use, maintain and stock are kept – keep a list if you can’t remember. Most of all, you need to start paying attention, find a way to keep track of the information you need, and start pulling your weight.”

  158. Anon Grumpus*

    I know this blog has covered gifts at work pretty extensively, but I’m curious about how commenters would handle these three situations that came up at my workplace recently.

    Background: I work at a large local nonprofit; my team is around 30 people, with salaries ranging from around $30k (entry-level admins) to $150k (VP). Until these three requests, which came in the last two months, gifting hasn’t been a thing here.

    Situation 1: A milestone birthday for the VP. Her assistant, without her knowledge, circulated a card (unusual; cards tend to get circulated for life events but not birthdays), organized a collection of notes of appreciation, and invited contribution for a birthday gift. She sent a couple of reminders to the whole division (not targeted to people who didn’t contribute).

    Situation 2: The same VP leaves the organization. Her assistant circulated a card and invited contribution for a going away gift, and sent similar reminders as above. The organization threw a big going-away party for the VP; in addition, the VP’s assistant organized a casual bagels-and-coffee-in-our-workspace gathering on the VP’s actual last day (including giving her the card and gift).

    The VP was well-liked by some staff but deeply distrusted by many others. A significant chunk of the team was/is really excited that she’s moved on.

    Situation 3: A colleague is getting married. His manager organized a potluck celebration and invited staff to donate money for a restaurant gift card and donate PTO to help cover his honeymoon.

    … thoughts on any of these? Would you give? Would you resent it?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Situations 1+2: A card and collection of notes is totally cool. Asking for gift money from people who get paid far less to someone who makes well into six figures… that’s in poor taste, I think.

      Situation 3: Donating to the restaurant gift card (in whatever amount people would like or not at all) is perfectly fine, but I think even asking people (not pressuring them) to donate PTO is a bit much. If someone can’t have time off for her or his honeymoon, that indicates larger issues in terms of how good the PTO part of the compensation package is at the org. Your co-workers shouldn’t have to give up theirs.

      1. Anon Grumpus*

        Oh, interesting — your thoughts on the PTO issue. We have good PTO here (varies by tenure; this colleague probably gets 23 days a year), so I don’t think that’s an issue — I think it was just his manager wanting to help give him a nice treat.

        I object to PTO donations to specific people in general; I’d much prefer a PTO bank that can be used to offer extra days to folks in need, without specific people offering PTO to other specific people. It’s just too weird; someone on a big team or who has a big network could get a bunch of days for their honeymoon, and someone on a smaller team or who isn’t as gregarious could get only a few days for their cancer treatment).

      2. Fictional Butt*

        Yeah, the PTO thing strikes me as super weird. I love sick banks, but I’ve never heard of someone asking for vacation time to be donated. A honeymoon is something you should be plenty able to budget for, time-wise. No matter how much goodwill I had for the happy couple, I’d be very resentful of someone who asked me to donate my PTO for someone else’s vacation.

    2. EA in CA*

      We had the same thing happen at Old job. Co-worker was getting married and her boss thought it would be a generous gift to have people donate PTO to help cover her honeymoon which was a week after her wedding. This was sent as an All Staff email. Someone replied (all staff) with “You’re kidding, right? she has already taken all three weeks of her PTO for wedding prep and you want us to cover the honeymoon? Looks like someone needs to manage their paid time off better”.

      I was in the same boat. Great you want to get married and all. But my PTO is MY PTO.

      1. EA in CA*

        FYI I was not the one who sent the all staff reply. Another, much more vocal co-worker did. :)

      2. Anon Grumpus*

        I feel the same way! Especially since we all have combined sick and vacation; what if I give away time for your vacation and then need it for an extended illness?

        My best work friend was just the recipient of over two weeks of donated PTO so she can, for the first time, travel to visit her husband’s home country. Very cool for her, and I love her, but I still resented it.

      3. Anon Grumpus*

        Oh, but I should be clear: My colleague who is getting married is not involved with the request for PTO at all — he doesn’t even know about it. He’s planned his honeymoon and presumably has enough vacation time and/or is taking unpaid leave to cover it. He’s a responsible, thoughtful guy.

  159. librarylady*

    Is it wrong to leave a job when I’m in the middle of managing a significant long-term project? I work in a small academic library, and we’ve had this project in the works for around 4 months now. The implementation of the project is set to begin this month, and will be finished in December. In the time between the initial planning stages of the project and now, and for a variety of reasons, I’ve decided that I want to move out of state and pursue a new position. If I find a job that I’m interested in, should I apply? Or do I need to wait until this project is completed? I feel confident that the project could be managed without me, but I don’t want to be seen as abandoning something in the middle–seven months just seems like more than I can wait to leave my current job.

    1. Allypopx*

      There’s rarely a perfect time. You have to do what’s best for you. As long as you take the steps to make sure the project is well managed and can function without you, it can’t reasonably be held against you for being ready to move on.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      There is no perfect time to leave a job, just like there is no perfect time to get married or perfect time to have a baby. You have to decide what makes sense for you and your life.

      By the way, I would ad, that given the competitive market for library jobs and the long term process academic hiring could be, it maybe months before anything happens. So, if I saw a job you wanted, I would apply.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Your only obligation is to leave good handover notes. You are allowed to leave!

    4. Ghost Town*

      I just left in the middle of the website redesign where I was the project manager between our unit and the school’s creative services. I was quite literally the only one who had been steering the ship, but was able to bring a couple of co-workers into my last meeting with the creative/design team for introductions and hand off. (I was likely going to spend a good portion of my summer going over content at OldJob for the website, so we were just getting into some of the heavy lifting that way.)

      There’s never a good time, and even if the project implements on time, with no bugs, and finishes in December, there’ll be something else. Document your processes and have an FAQ sheet/file, but don’t wait seven months to start applying.

  160. Job Seeker - Tech Industry*

    At a networking event I was asked to come in for an informal chat, to discuss my skills and what the company does. To suss out if I’m the kind of employee they’d want and if they have an atmosphere I’d like. I don’t think it’s a formal interview? I haven’t applied for anything and the person did say “have a chat”.
    So what in the world do I wear? The tech industry here is notoriously casual, but this is a bigger, well-established company which may impact things.

    1. Bolt*

      I would say to wear some business casual clothing… don’t whip out a suit but at least have on a nice pressed shirt.

  161. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    I went through a round-robin interview earlier this week (worked 6:30 am-2:30 pm full 8 hours) then interview. What’s a low-budget way of rewarding myself for having survived today completely sleep deprived even after coffee? X/////

    1. CatCat*

      A nice bubble bath, some gentle music, and whatever is your guilty pleasure magazine.

  162. Ramona Flowers*

    Have you ever worked for two managers who are in a job-share?

    My manager is going part-time and we’re hiring someone to job-share with her. Management are thinking about how to make this work (including consistency of line management approach) and are very open to questions and suggestions.

    Does anyone have any suggestions of things I should ask about or do, that maybe aren’t obvious until you’re in that situation?

    1. katamia*

      Depending on how techy your office is, maybe a Google Doc or shared (paper) notebook that all three of you have access to to help everyone keep track of what’s going on. Also, unless they specifically say not to, my inclination would be to send emails to both managers unless it’s something time-sensitive and minor.

      Also a meeting with both of them at the beginning to lay out expectations on all sides. (And I mean you too–if you and your original manager did X and it worked really well for you, then tell the new manager that and see if she’s willing to do it a similar way.)

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        The notebook (real or virtual) is a nice idea. My manager has an individual paper notebook for each of her direct reports that she brings to 121s and stuff so maybe they could share that.

        Emails sent to both are guaranteed to be out of date by the time person 2 gets to it – I’ve suggested one joint inbox could be helpful.

        I’m only just getting to know my current manager as she was on maternity leave when I started, so don’t know what works yet. She’s fab though, I wish we could clone her.

  163. CoffeeLover*

    I just moved to Sweden to be with my husband! Yay :).

    Unfortunately (fortunately?), I’m unemployed at the moment. I’m now finding that Swedish is actually more of a requirement than I was expecting in terms of finding a job. While I always expected local firms to require Swedish, I assumed if the firm was larger, they would work in English. This is mostly because my husband (born and raised in Sweden) believed the same thing. I’m now finding that even though a lot of these firms work in English, they would still prefer someone who speaks Swedish. While I plan to learn, it’s going to take a while. I’ve resolved myself to likely not finding exactly what I hoped would be my next career step, but I’m okay with that. I’m early in my career and was finding I didn’t really like the direction I was doing before. That being said, people here get 5weeks minimum vacation so most will be off for the summer. This means I probably won’t have much luck finding work, so I’m going to take the job hunt easy for now (my husband has a job that pays the bills luckily.)

    Would love to hear from others who moved to a European country without a job lined up ahead of time. How long did it take you to find a position (and how hard were you looking)? How much luck did you have applying to positions the traditional way or were most leads through people you met?

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      I was initially surprised to hear about your experience in Sweden. I did my summer abroad there. English usage was so widespread, I wouldn’t have expected Swedish fluency to be a job requirement. But when I think about it, there were (and probably still are) serious integration issues with immigrants there, specifically around employment. Is there an online job you could get while you work on your language skills?

      1. CoffeeLover*

        I was surprised too (heck even my husband was surprised). “Sprechen Sie Talk?” explained the environment really well below. Thank you for the online suggestion…. I hadn’t really been considering it but it would be a good way to keep busy and bring in some income.

    2. Kit*

      I don’t have answers to the questions you posed, but I just wanted to tell you learning Swedish might take less time than you think. I speak adequate Swedish, and I learned just for fun without ever having visited Sweden. Given you have more motivation and access than me, and because Swedish is very intuitive for English speakers, you could probably get to a hireable level of proficiency in 6 months. You could try focusing on learning Swedish as your “job” for a bit and look into volunteering so that you have something from Sweden to put on your resume?

      1. CoffeeLover*

        I recently applied for a volunteer position with that in mind so hopefully I hear back from them… unfortunately most volunteer positions also require Swedish :(. I have heard I should be able to pick up Swedish quickly and would like to focus on it right from the start. I read that a lot of expats never end up learning because they start work and forget about it. Maybe the unemployment is a blessing in disguise.

    3. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Oh god good luck. Min sambo ar en svensk också, men bor vi i London. We don’t live in Sweden for various reasons not least because of the language/job issue for me and now hes considered an utlandsvensk – a “foreign Swede”- which carries some weird sort of stigma of its own. Its a beautiful country and we would love to live there… for four or five months out of the year only and working remotely!

      A lot of American expats I have known who have lived in Sweden call it the Swedish paradox – it looks like a beautiful tolerant country on the outside but once you get inside it can be a very cold and difficult place to crack. Like the Seattle Freeze but worse. Be aware that it will be a struggle – any time you move to a foreign country it will be – but the added challenge of the language is going to be hard.

      I learned the bulk of my Swedish watching tv because of the subtitles, reading papers even if I didn’t know all the words, asking other half what a word meant if I didn’t recognize it, and just listening. Swedish is a very easy language with easy rules, its not German at least! If you can, get thee to SfI ASAP, especially before summer starts. Alternatively, if you have the money, there are online courses through Lund University I think where you can progress up through the European language ranks quickly (have heard reports of some SfI courses to be very slow moving and people goofing off, depending on what class you get) and learn it faster. Above all else practice speaking the language; I use it in public when we are in Sweden and it usually takes me a week to “switch over” where I understand what is being spoke to me in real time and my brain and mouth want to respond in automatically Swedish. Every time it gets a bit easier and faster.

      Always remember that even though it seems like people speak English it is still not their native language and so the preference will always be to speak their native tongue. Also, for a country where a certain level of conformity and togetherness abounds like Sweden, its a way to identify that you know the social norms. Fika (coffee) break is a THING in Swedish workplaces and must be obeyed even if you really dont want to drink caffeine at 4 in the afternoon. A friend of ours was telling us how disappointed he and the other Swede on the team were in the other guy (an immigrant with good Swedish) would not fika with them – they just could not comprehend that at all and it actually colored his impression of the guy’s professionalism. Also be aware that you may experience a subtle level of discrimination for being a foreigner – I have heard of several cases where a foreigner with more/better experience will be passed over for a less experienced Swede who “fits”. Fitting in is critical and there is no way you can ever share the same background and life experience of these folks. Are you in a major metro like Stockholm or Goteborg?

      Outside of Swedish things – we moved to London in 2013 with no jobs, 3 suitcases, a box, and two cats (who were left with his parents in Sweden for 3.5 years… they are currently on the courier van on their way to us!). I had work experience here, 15 years total work experience, a big name on my resume (with branches here) etc and it still took almost a year. Traditional application sites, direct applications, recruiters, LinkedIn, networking, etc I tried it all. Eventually something came through from LinkedIn and that was all I needed really to get started and now I have a new network and recruiters call me. Same with my other half who does high end data tech things – he came close plenty of times and finally broke through using a recruiter. But this is London where the competition is super intense and there were all sorts of little nuances I didn’t understand. It was exhausting really, we would go quite hard core and then get close and… nothing. We escaped to Sweden for 6 weeks that summer, and another 2 weeks that fall just to get a break from the strain. Honestly I still can’t believe we did what we did (slept on a friend’s floor for 10 months too!).

      What I would suggest while you work on the language and enjoy the summer is to see if there is anything you can do remotely – maybe some sort of virtual assistant job, editing, any skills you have that someone would pay for in an english speaking country. Or look into free/low cost ways to pick up new skills (web development or something) that have value in Sweden and don’t necessarily rely on spoken language. Essentially – use the time to your advantage so you can hit the ground running in September when everyone gets back. You also likely have a bunch of paperwork to sort with Skatteverket and getting that all important personnummer which can suck up a lot of time.

      One last thing since this is super long already; as an expat you will go through plenty of periods of self-doubt, depression, confusion, isolation, loneliness, etc. There are still plenty of happy times and things to experience and see and do, but make sure you stay on top of your mental health too. 3.5 years later and we are finally resettled and I had a melt down the other week wondering “what the hell am I doing?” and thinking it would be better to move back to the US. Your husband won’t be able to relate to/understand these feelings so try not to get frustrated with the poor guy!

      But definitely enjoy the summer, especially with Midsommar coming up. We were just there three weeks ago in Stockholm, Goteborg, and Strängnäs and even though we had snow flurries one day and it was cold, had a lovely time as always. Good luck!

      1. CoffeeLover*

        Thank you for your great and detailed response! A lot of what you said really hit home and is what I have been experiencing myself. One thing that really surprised me is how uncomfortable people are speaking English… I mean their English is so good! But I see the panic in their eyes when they realize I don’t speak Swedish.

        Your husband won’t be able to relate to/understand these feelings so try not to get frustrated with the poor guy!

        This part made me laugh because it’s so true. I’ve definitely given him some attitude about not understanding my struggle (and then felt bad about it later since he’s just trying to help.) I showed him your comment and he started to counter some of your points (…almost proving your point?) I said this was your experience and his may be different (and would be being born and raised here!) I think he doesn’t really recognize how closed off Swedes can be because he himself is so open to English and other cultures (I mean he married a Canadian he met in Singapore.)

        Essentially – use the time to your advantage so you can hit the ground running in September when everyone gets back.

        I’m really trying to make sure I do use this time. I’m taking a course on Coursera right and am planning to sign up for SFI soon. I spent a few months in sweden 2 years ago and completely wasted my time so I’m hoping I learned my lesson! I (finally) got my personal number a few days ago but still have a few things to deal with (ie getting my ID card – why can’t there be a one stop shop!)

        as an expat you will go through plenty of periods of self-doubt, depression, confusion, isolation, loneliness, etc.

        Yep, I’ve already felt some of this and it’s only been a month! I am trying to stay positive and look at the bright side of things. I even started an instagram where I post pictures I take of snails (shameless plug: it’s called snailsofsweden, if you’re interested). Its helped me look forward to the rainy days I used to dread here.

        I’m in Stockholm so I got to experience those snowy days you mentioned! I’m Canadian so it’s nothing I’m not used to (though it was unusually warm in Canada when it happened… the weather hates me sometimes).

        Thanks again for taking the time to respond!

    4. The Foreign Octopus*

      Congratulations on the move! How exciting!

      I moved to Spain without a job lined up or speaking the language but with some savings behind and a whole lot of optimism behind me. Our experiences are different because I moved here to teach English whilst working on personal projects that would bring in money over a longer term. It didn’t take me long to find work in Spain but mainly because Spanish people love hiring natives to teach English. There’s a sort of street cred if you’ve got a native teaching English for you. Saying that, I did get my job through people I met. It’s very word of mouth and who you know here in Spain and through the people that I’ve met, jobs have come up.

      I recommend any sort of language exchange for you. I didn’t really use them to learn the language as everyone wanted to speak English with me but all sorts of people go to them and that’s how I got my first job. The culture in Spain is different to my home country (UK) so it would be helpful learning the differences between the job markets first – how jobs are advertised, what CV formatting is like. For example, pictures on CVs are incredibly common in Spain but not at all advised in the UK.

      Starting there would be your best option and you’ll be surprised at how quickly it grows. And if you are looking to earn money whilst you’re waiting, consider teaching English. You can do it online or in person or at an academy. It’s very flexible. I don’t know the market in Sweden but if you teach online then you can get students from all over the world who pay a reasonable amount for your expertise. It’s not for everyone but to fill the gap and keep some moeny coming in, I do recommend it.

      In the meantime, good luck with everything!

  164. Golda*

    I had an odd experience this week. I work in a small department and am one of the senior specialist in the department, my manager has been pretty busy this year and our biweekly meetings have become bimonthly at best. My manager gets tied up in meetings a lot so it has been up to the other senior and I to handle the day to day business of the department. In the last 6 weeks or so my coworkers have been ignoring what I tell them to do regarding work. They even went so far as to create a hashtag for me when I tell them to do anything. I tried to handle the situation on my own but every time I think it’s fixed the ringleader starts right back up again. So I managed to get a meeting with my manager and talked through the situation giving specific examples. We talked about what I could do to fix it and overall the meeting was very helpful until the end when I was more or less told to get thicker skin. I have implemented the suggested changes and things have improved very little. I am still the but of most jokes. I am at my witts end and my manager is not going to do anything to help me.

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      Have you approached any of your coworkers about this? Are there clear roles? Does the team know they’re supposed to take direction from you? (Are they supposed to take direction from you?)

      Bottom line, I don’t know how you can make this team respect you or take direction from you if you’re not backed up by your own manager. “Get thicker skin” isn’t good advice when your team is making hashtags about you (!!!). Yikes.

    2. kathyglo*

      This is a difficult situation. I think you should deal with it on a case by case basis. Sometimes rebellious people feel they have better ideas or a need to be heard. If they are not doing what you ask I would ask why, what are the reasons, and what are their suggestions. If they do not have any good ideas they need to follow office procedure. Your manager should have in place escalating consequences for not doing their work. Also I would state to them the hashtag is disrespectful and request they cease using it. If they are bent on causing problems or trying to cause trouble for you, you and your manager need agree on a plan. Good luck OP stay strong!

  165. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

    Has anyone on here made a career change after 10+ years in one type of role? I am thinking its probably time for me to consider one; just not excited by what I do anymore and the last two orgs I have worked for have been uninspiring, not to mention I am in a role that is typically a cost center. I am afraid that even if I were to switch to a new company I would be bored just as fast again and I am looking for new challenges and to really stretch myself by actually seeing my work have an impact rather than just another report going nowhere.

    If you have made the switch, what prompted you to decide? How did you decide what to switch to? What was the decision process like?

    1. CoffeeLover*

      I’m sort of in the process of switching, but I haven’t been working too long so I don’t think my experience would be of much help to you.

      There is a book that I found useful that was recommended to me by a manager. I don’t necessary think you need to buy the book (especially since some of the advice goes contrary to what has been recommended by Alison- ie the author tells you to use fancy paper for your resume.) There is an exercise in the book called the flower diagram though, which is basically taking an inventory of your skills, preferred areas of knowledge, preferred working environment, etc. I think this is a great place for you to start if you’re thinking about a career switch. Its a very detailed/thorough exercise and takes a week or two to complete. The book is called “What colour is your parachute”. You can Google the name of the book and “flower” and you’ll find very detailed articles about it so you can use those to complete it. This should help you decide if you really want to change and where you should go. An inventory of yourself is really the best way to go I think. Really it just forces you to sit down and REALLY think it through.

  166. Kit*

    I was going to fire someone tomorrow but he came in today and quit. Confirmation that I effectively communicated the severity of the situation, I guess?

  167. How to be a good client for a Resumee Writer/Coach?*

    I have a 2-hour meeting scheduled with a local resumee writer/coach.
    I’ve been submitting resumees since last October (maybe earlier, but definitely laid off last October) and gotten 1 interview for a position far below me. This is through working with recruiters, directly, informational interviews, etc. etc.
    Any suggestions on how to be a good client for a resumee coach writer? She’s $125/hour so I’d like to be efficient!!

    1. CAA*

      Bring lots of notes.

      Go over your resume and write down everything you can think of that you did at each job you’ve had. Include things that you liked doing, things you didn’t like doing, things you think are way too unimportant to include on a resume, etc. This will bring all the old details to mind so when the coach asks you questions, you’ll be able to come up with answers more easily, and you can also refer to the notes if needed.

      Once you have the lists of what you’ve done, make another list of what you want to do in your next job. This list may have some of your favorite tasks from past jobs as well as some new things you want to try. This info should help the coach select achievements to include on your resume for each job and also write a convincing summary/cover letter.

  168. Lo*

    This question is only partially job related, so feel free to tell me to post tomorrow if need be, but it’s been bothering me.

    I got married two weeks ago, and I have decided to keep my last name and not change it to my husbands name. I live a medium-sized midwestern city and this is 2017-so for the life of me I can’t figure out why everyone is having a hard time with it.

    Most people, coworkers included, have been confused and caught off guard when they ask for my new name, and I say I am not changing it. Does anyone have good wording for helping me make this less awkward and make me sound less defensive about my personal choice? (The people who have been outright rude about it I have decided to ignore since it’s their problem not mine.) This is really eating me up-even though it shouldn’t!

    1. Rincat*

      If it were me, I would respond with something like “Oh, I’ve decided not to change it!” in a very chipper voice and then change the subject to something else – my go-to subject changers are typically asking a question to the person so they will talk about themselves and forget about my last name (or whatever topic it is you don’t want to talk about). I think the key is in the delivery – short, casual, chipper. Try to avoid giving them reasons or anything like that because I think that just encourages people to try and argue with you about it. Most people will get the hint and not press you about it – the ones who are rude and keep pressing – well just walk away. :) But sounds like you have them handled!

      Also, congratulations!

    2. Manders*

      I got this in a liberal west-coast city, so I guess people are weird about it all over the country. I started saying, “I told him he could change his last name if he wanted,” in a light tone, which people tend to take as a deflecting joke, even if you really would have done that as a couple.

      But yeah, this is the pettiest thing I have ever seen people get huffy about, and I have no idea why it happens.

    3. LK*

      As someone who got married in February and kept her name: “Oh, neither my [husband/wife/spouse] nor I changed our names!” said in a VERY, almost sickeningly, pleasant tone. It answers the question politely and the phrasing helps to push back on gendered stereotypes.

      In our wedding invites/save the dates/whatever you want to call the detail packages we sent our guests, we added “neither LK nor ZZ will be changing their names” in small print to help fend off any monogrammed Mr/Mrs towels or cheques that would be impossible to deposit.

      1. Rincat*

        I really like that reply!

        I decided to change my name basically because I liked my husband’s better – it’s pretty sounding and my family name sounds gross (it brings to mind the act of pooping) – but even then I HATE IT when my parents or whoever send something to us addressed as “Mr. and Mrs. Smith” instead of “Rincat and Pipboy Smith.” My mom and I had a big fight regarding my baby shower invitations – I wanted them addressed to couples using their own names, she wanted old school. In the end, she won, and addressed them as such, and then all the people who attended my baby shower asked why we had put Mr. and Mrs. Smith on the invites. :/

    4. MommaTRex*

      I got married 15 years ago, but I haven’t had too much trouble with it at all. Most people I’ve run into get past any confusion fairly quickly.

      I often jokingly tell people, “I’m too lazy.” Here’s some of my other go-to phrases:
      “Mrs. Triceratopson is my stage name.”
      “The username MTriceratopson has already been taken at work.”
      “The username MTriceratopson is more digits to type than MTRexsen, so I’m sticking with the shorter one.”
      “I’ve been an ‘s-E-n’ too long. I just can’t see myself as an ‘s-O-n’.”
      “To counter Murphy’s law, I’m not changing it so that we will never get divorced.”
      A coworker of mine tells people, “I was going to change it, but the line at the Social Security office was too long.”

    5. CoffeeLover*

      I’m in Canada so maybe things are different, but I really don’t think this is An issue here. I got married and did decide to change my name, but IT really dragged their feet on changing it in the system (and I didn’t really care to push them). I had my maiden name for months and no one even asked. Actually now that I think about it they did ask…. but they asked saying “are you changing your name?” No one assumed that was the go-to.

    6. Em*

      Married almost twenty years now, and I didn’t change my name. My own family (I’m talking my mother and siblings) frequently got my name wrong in the first several years after we were married. I still have one aunt who addresses things to us as Me and Him Hisname.

      For the most part, it doesn’t bother me. It’s not like I don’t like him or his name is an insult, and I understand that changing names is the usual convention. However, if you address me as Em Hisname or Mrs. Hisname, I’m probably not going to answer because I’m genuinely not going to realize that you are talking to me. One time, someone had an announcement made to me at an event. However, it was announced Em Hisname, the person told me to respond, and I argued back that they didn’t mean me. It didn’t even occur to me that someone could indeed have meant me but used their version of my married name.

      Anyway, usually what I say (because it’s true) is that I am the ONLY Em Myname in the world, but there are hundreds of Em Hisnames. Sometimes I say that I would have changed my name if his name had been something cool like “Dragonfire”. Sometimes I just firmly say “I’d never change my name” or “I can’t imagine changing my name.” I’ve also used “all my degrees are in Myname”. For the most part, I get the feeling that people are just curious or not used to it. For the very few people who actually try to make an argument that I should have changed my name, I usually say that he could change his name to Him Myname if he wanted.

      I do my own version of this, though. Quite often, if I knew someone in school, I will continue to use her original name long after she’s changed it through marriage.

      Side note, I learned through accidentally depositing a cheque to my husband into my bank account at an ATM that the bank doesn’t really check the names carefully, so anything that is made out to Me Hisname gets deposited that way and I’ve never had a problem.

  169. Allison*

    I discovered something today. If work is slow and you need some way to discretely entertain yourself, listen to standup comedy on Spotify. I almost forgot how hilarious Eugene Mirman is!

  170. Audiophile*

    I know this is pretty late in the day, but I’m hoping someone catches this.

    I’m in development/fundraising and I’d like to start finding conferences to attend. Any suggestions on where I can look? My organization is very encouraging, offering to cover or reimburse expenses, but it doesn’t seem like my predecessor attended very many off-site conferences or events.

  171. JoAnna*

    I had a terrific job interview this morning! Direct quote from the site manager (primary interviewer): “There’s one other contender for this position, and you just out-interviewed him.”

    Thank you so much for all of your advice, Alison & AAM community!

  172. AnotherAlison*

    Just here to say this week blows. So far:

    1. Got pulled in just before the holiday to present a proposal to someone else’s client, spent a lot of time getting up to speed and prepping, spent two days traveling for a two hour presentation, then landed at my home airport to find out we were not selected (after 3 of our team getting told by 3 different people on the client’s team to refresh some numbers based on the meeting, and that “it was definitely worth our time to come present”)
    2. Client called about a discrepancy. . .turns out to be a big mistake I made a year and a half ago.
    3. Had to break bad news about being over budget (due to out of scope work added) to another client. Asked for 10% change order. Client says no problem, but we need to provide him with justification of why we’re 100% over budget. (100% over based on a verbal swag estimate my coworker provided before the project scope was fully defined and excluding all their scope adds).

    At least I get to go sit at a track meet ALL DAY IN THE HEAT tomorrow.

  173. LizzE*

    I am in this weird predicament at work at I need the AAM community’s advice. How do I tell one of my colleagues to stop pushing her assistant onto our boss? For clarity, I am the EA to our boss (“Jon”) and this colleague (“Jenna”) is one of the directors that reports to him. Essentially, Jenna wants to hire her assistant (“Jill”) – temporary help who was hired for a specific 9-month project – and make her full-time; Jenna thinks putting Jill in front of my boss will convince him to hire her. But Jenna is doing this at the expense of putting her assistant in a situation where Jill (unintentionally) is stepping on my toes. Jill is really nice, but inexperienced and just out of college, so I don’t think she is aware of this – in fact, I think she would be mortified if someone said something to her!

    I think one of the issues is Jenna does not get along with others in the department, specifically her fellow directors – Jane, Jessica and Janelle – and it is putting Jill in a situation where she is isolated from the rest of the dept. Jenna is trying to integrate Jill in the rest of the department, but her default is to go to Jon for tasks to assign Jill (and of course her agenda is to get an assistant hired for herself). But Jon is C-level and does not have not time to worry about finding tasks for Jill to do, especially when she was not hired to assist him.

    Even if there was opportunity for Jill to get some of these tasks, my support for Jon is very high-level; EA’s at our org tend to be very experienced and have to manage department projects (e.g. our CFO’s assistant has to also manage an investment portfolio on top of assisting the CFO). Jill just does not have the experience yet to manage the projects I do, nor deal with the high-stress situations I deal with on a daily basis.

    Jon and I have a good relationship, so I am not necessarily worried about losing my role or being pushed out, but I still find what Jenna is doing to be disrespectful. Jon has politely declined Jenna’s requests, but Jenna persists and has even given Jill tasks of mine she had no right to assign.

    I want to address this with Jenna, but I am struggling to find the words. What script could I use to help me address this? I recognize some people will tell me that Jon should handle it, but I feel I should say something.

    Thoughts?

    1. fposte*

      It really is more appropriate for you to say something to Jon than to Jenna. “Jon, Jenna has caused some confusion by reassigning my tasks to Jill; Jill doesn’t have the experience to deal with them and also it complicates my workflow when I don’t know whether it’s Jenna or you who’s in charge of what I’m supposed to do. What would you like me to do when this happens?” If you’ve got a good rapport with him, you can be more candid and say “Can I push back against her when this happens, and what do you think would be the most effective way to do this?” and “I think she’s pushing Jill in a way that’s actually not good for her, so if we’re interested in retaining Jill, somebody might want to keep an eye on that.”

      But in general I advise against “I think you’re being disrespectful” conversations; they’re a shortcut to drama. And in this case it sounds like Jenna technically outranks you, so you really want to make sure your boss is in board with any action you take about her.

      1. LizzE*

        I get your point about mentioning the disrespect aspect and I do want to avoid that language if I were to discuss it with her. For the record, I know I would be able to push back with Jon’s support, but he is never good with this type of advice.

        1. fposte*

          You’re not really getting his advice; you’re getting his go-ahead. With Jon’s authorization, you can say “Jenna, Jon and I have discussed Jill’s assignments and agree that it’s a problem when you draw on my workflow for them; please don’t do that in future.”

        2. Observer*

          I’m with fposte. When Jon says “well, um” you can come back with “I think I just need to tell Jenna that this is not a task she can assign to Jill. I just wanted to make sure you’re on board. I know you’re too busy to deal with the details.”

          And then just tell Jenna “This is not a job for Jill.” and / or “This is not a task that’s in your scope.” Add “Please don’t interfere with my work.” if needed.

        3. A. Non*

          Agreed with fposte and Observer– you’re not so much getting his advice as saying ‘this is what I want to do, are you ok with backing me?’ It takes part of the decision out of his hands, so that all he has to do is say yes, okay, I am ok with you doing it.

  174. Working during chemo*

    I’m starting back at work on Monday after surgery for breast cancer. I had my first chemo session last Friday, which was ok in some ways and horrible in others (could not sleep for 5 days). I am starting to feel better though and looking forward to going back to work because I feel a bit isolated.
    However I am wondering if there’s anything I need to make my boss aware of – I’m going to explain my chemo schedule and when I will definitely be away from work. I’m just wondering if I should be stressing that I will not be anything near 100% for at least 1 week in 3, or just try my best and see how it goes.
    Any advice from anyone who’s been in this situation would be great!

    2. MommaTRex*

      I have not been in that situation, but my advice would be: “Don’t stress!” I think everyone should be understanding that you will be at much less than your 100%. And stressing will only make things worse, I would guess.

    3. CAA*

      I’m sorry you’re going through this. You can react differently to every chemo session, so you might not want to start off by assuming you’ll always feel as poorly as you did after this infusion. Definitely provide your schedule so your manager will know when you’ll be out, but if you can, be somewhat vague about side effects and how they’ll affect your work until they actually do.

  175. Unemployed again*

    I don’t think very quickly, and I have an awful tendency to put my foot in my mouth if I’m pressed to talk before I’ve thought it through. I’m not stupid – my fully baked thoughts can be pretty good – but when working with others it’s hard to get there (damn pair programming faddists argh).

    When I’m put on the spot at work or in a job interview, is there something I can do or say to get people to give me a minute or so to think before answering? Based on my experience at Previous Job, “Sorry, could I take a minute to think?” doesn’t cut it, because they’ll spend a minute talking about how of course they’re happy to give me whatever I need, and then somehow be surprised that while listening to them I didn’t get any closer to solving the problem. “Sorry, could you stop talking for a minute while I think?” hasn’t seemed to work any better.

    Or is this just not something that’s available until you’ve seriously proven yourself? Do I just need to suck it up and hope my half-baked notions don’t destroy everyone’s respect for me before that point?

    1. fposte*

      I think taking a moment to think is fine, but expecting silence while you take that moment is optimistic. See if you can practice zoning out for a moment after the first word of response (assuming it’s “Sure!”), and see if you find benefit from a slow, thoughtful sip of water which buys time and also looks like you’re doing something, so people aren’t as desperate to talk during it. In an interview you might also manage some out-loud processing of how you’d tackle that problem, and you might even want to explicitly foreground that’s what you’re doing. “Sometimes it takes me a minute to walk myself through a problem to a solution, so I’m going to process my thoughts out loud for a minute as I decide what I’d do.”

    2. CatCat*

      I wouldn’t ask. Just pause when you need to and respond when you’ve had a moment. I bet not as much time passes as you think (when your stress hormones get going, it can impact your perception of time where it feels like it is taking you f o r e v e r to d something, but just normal time is passing.) If you think it’s going to take a minute (like an actual minute), you can preface it with, “Hmmmm… let me think for a moment…” then pause to think and then respond.

      Practice, practice, practice will also help.

    3. katamia*

      Some people and workplaces are just going to be more tolerant of this than other people. This is hard because you can’t tell who they are. Some people get around this by talking out their thought process, like, “Hm, that’s a good question. I’d have to factor in X, Y, and Z and do some research on A, B, and C, but I’d probably want to wind up doing Q.” I don’t know if that would work for you, but you could try it with a friend or family member or friendly coworker to see if it’s something that might help.

      For job interviews, I don’t know how much preparation you’re doing, but you could try doing more. Which is not that helpful, I know, but if you’re asked a question you’re not prepared for in one job interview, you can add it to your list of questions to prepare for for the next interview.

      1. Unemployed again*

        But my thought process might be totally wrong at first, and I might lose people’s respect by saying something stupid, and the more I value someone’s opinion of me the more anxious I get and the likelier I am to panic, in the worst case leading to a vicious cycle where I start crying or run out of the room, because permission to exit a conversation that’s going bad seems even harder to get than permission to pause so this doesn’t happen in the first place. “Sorry, I’ll need to pause for a minute due to crippling social anxiety” could maybe work in the right environment but I don’t know how to tell whether it’s worth the risk. In a job where I’d hope to work with the same people for years, the stakes are be terrifyingly high :(

        Interviews are bad too, but not as bad. I’m doing about one practice CS interview problem a day, about half the time in front of another human, and I’m getting a lot better at talking through the process in that one situation because there are nice well-defined ways to start. Ask nitpicky clarifying questions (are we concerned about X, Y, and Z sorts of weird input values, or can we ignore them for now? do we care about the worst-case performance, or just the average?), rephrase the problem in mathematical terms, draw a diagram, etc. And the worst case is that if I say something dumb I don’t get an offer I was probably not going to get anyway.

    4. Undine*

      Don’t ask, tell? Say, “Give me a minute, I need to think about this.” Even get up and walk away for a minute if you want. Or do what a prof of mine used to do and cross your arms and put your head on the desk. (Helps if you have tenure, though.)

    5. Chaordic One*

      What I notice other people do when they need a few seconds to gather their thoughts is they say something like, “That’s a really good question and I’m glad you asked it,” even if it is the dumbest question in the whole world. I’m sorry to say that it doesn’t really buy you very much time, though.

  176. An Anonymous Poster*

    I received this message from a hiring director today:
    “It was nice to speak with you this week about the Director of Teapot Development position. I mentioned that I would be following up by week’s end to let you know whether we would be scheduling a second interview with you for next week. Several items in our schedules have shifted and we need to adjust our timeline. Will you hang tight as we work on a reschedule?”

    Does this mean that I’ve been selected for a second interview and am waiting to hear when it will take place, or that I’m waiting to hear whether or not I will be selected for a second interview?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      To me, it reads that you are waiting to hear whether you will be selected for a second interview.

    2. CAA*

      It means that they don’t yet know whether they will select you for a second interview, probably because they either weren’t able to complete all the first-round interviews or they weren’t able to get together and discuss who to invite to the second-round interviews due to the shifting schedules mentioned in the email. They don’t know when they’ll be able to let you know about the second round.

      1. An Anonymous Poster*

        Thanks, that makes sense. My anxiety probably caused me to read this as less clear than it actually is.

        At the end of the interview, when the hiring director told me about next steps, I had to explain that the only time I could do a second interview next week was Friday afternoon. (Huge event at my current job next week; I have to work 7 a.m.-6 p.m. Mon.-Thurs.) Here’s hoping their change of schedule works in my favor.

    3. Undine*

      I read this as “do we have to decide to interview you quickly because you have another offer, or do we have time to figure things out?”

  177. Candy*

    Venting about working with coworkers who talk down to me about my lack of degrees/schooling…

    I work with two other women and we all do the exact same job. I’ve been there ten years, the others about five and two years each. We all do the same thing, have the same job description, same pay, etc (unionized). I enjoy working with them but it drives me crazy that they constantly bring up the fact that they both have degrees while I don’t and subtly talk down to me about it. We work at a university so schooling comes up a lot and every single time there’s some sort of “Oh you wouldn’t know, you didn’t graduate” comment. But I do know! I’ve been living on my own and supporting myself without any help since I was 17. I’ve traveled the world and read great literature and worked various jobs in order to support myself. I have had a life of adventure and heartbreak and romance and poverty and everything in between. There are more ways to learn about the world than sitting in a classroom. Besides which: we all have the same job. Literally! So what are they bragging about? Their school and my experience both brought us to the same place so what makes them think their route is so much better than mine?

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      I wouldn’t say it, of course, but I’d be thinking “And yet, we have the same job and make the exact same amount, except I’m not under all that burden of student loan debt you are!”

      If you’ve had enough of it, you could push back with “I don’t know if you realize how condescending you are sounding toward me, but I would like you to stop.”

    2. Anxa*

      Perhaps it’s envy?

      Are they talking about experiences directly related to school? Because there really are some things you can’t understand about student life or going to college without going through it yourself (not that there’s a monolithic experience). That said, there’s no reason to be rude about it. Are they implying that school = worldliness?

      1. An Anonymous Poster*

        Along the same lines, they might be resentful of the fact that they put the time and money into a degree and ended up doing the same work for the same pay as someone without a degree. Again, that’s no excuse for rudeness.

    3. Undine*

      Insecurity. People who really felt confident in their degrees wouldn’t need to mention it.

    4. Gingerblue*

      Uuuuuugggghhhhh to these people. They sound frustrated, insecure, and jealous. You sound awesome, by the way.

  178. Ashie*

    I’ve been working from home the last 6 months while the office is under construction and I hate hate hate it. There’s so much informal information-sharing that happens when you’re physically in the office that I just don’t get while I’m at home. We were supposed to be able to move into the new offices next week – but I just found out it may be 6 more weeks. Boooooo.

    1. Drew*

      Would it be possible to schedule catch-up lunches with people on your team? “Hey, I would really love to chat with you in person about the teapot redesign – are you free for lunch Wednesday?”

      When my office was being renovated a few years back, about half the team worked together at an offsite office and the rest of us worked at home, and both groups were pretty receptive to occasional “Let’s grab lunch and touch base” overtures. I think it helped the team hold together.

  179. Lemon Zinger*

    I work full-time at a large public university. One of our benefits is reduced tuition, and I am almost halfway through with a graduate degree that is directly applicable to the field in which I work. This summer I am doing a required internship (which takes up roughly 10 hours per week) and a class (which meets twice per week). All told, I am “working” for around 60 hours per week.

    My nerves are shot. I have no free time during the week and no time to do basic things like work out, clean my apartment, run errands, etc. I have a supportive partner, but he can only do so much.

    Any advice for how to get through the summer in one piece? A couple of my colleagues are in the same situation and working 70% of the time, but my budget doesn’t allow me to do that (and neither would my boss).

    1. Kyrielle*

      Figure out what can drop by the wayside, if anything, and accept that until the end of the summer it will drop. Figure out when – IF – you have calmer moments in your summer (Fourth of July weekend in the US often is), and may be able to do a quick catch-up rush on those things to get you through.

      Don’t schedule all your time to do All The Things. Take care of yourself and relax some of the time, too. Yes, that means you’ll have to let some things drop. If you do all those things, then you’re letting your health (mental and physical) drop almost completely. You may have to let parts of it drop, it sounds like, but it’s not worth it for the sake of an immaculately clean living room (for example).

      If your budget doesn’t allow dropping time, then I’m going to guess that stretching it to pay for services you’d normally do for yourself (cleaning your apartment!) may not be possible – but consider whether it would be a good idea.

      1. Gingerblue*

        Agreed. At periods of high stress, I’ve had to figure out how to strike a balance between getting stuff done and letting thigs go. I get squirrelly if the house isn’t clean, but other stuff (working out, cooking, laundry, etc.) starts to go by the wayside. The semester I was finishing my degree I ate a lot of takeout. Prioritize stuff that recharges you and that isn’t optional (for whatever reason); for the rest, put it off or lower you standards.

        That’s the triage approach. A more cheerful thing that I find really helps is that when I know I have a stressful patch coming up I try to line up my fun in advance, so that when I have a free hour I actually do something fun instead of spending it tiredly debating what to do with that time. (Which inevitably ends with me grumpily browsing the more pointless bits of the internet and fretting.) I need to make fun accessible without needing the mental wherewithal to make decisions, basically. For me this means putting a bunch of books I’m excited about in a “To read” queue on Kindle, same thing with my Netflix and Amazon Prime queues, prepping some knitting projects (wind the yarn and put it in a ziplock with the needles and pattern) and downloading and setting up some computer games. It’s like meal planning for your mind.

  180. Me*

    Radio silence from that job I interviewed for. Obviously a no. Really, an email would have taken two seconds, people. :P

    There hasn’t been zip to apply to here. Sighed and sent out another out-of-state resume, but I don’t expect to hear from that either; the company had dubious reviews, but the listing had been up for a while, and nothing HAS to be permanent. I just don’t have the experience or technical skills to get the jobs I want. There have been a couple I feel like I could have gotten an interview for if I’d been there, but it’s just not possible to move yet.

    I found some recommendations for open-source stuff that’s enough like FrameMaker I might be able to teach myself the basics. If I can be arsed to do anything. I’m so unmotivated right now. There is nowhere to go and nothing to do. I can’t write in coffee shops or the library or in public at all; too many distractions. But my brain feels like sludge right now. I cannot tell you how sick I am of this house, and it’s not just now; I’ve lived here for years and I’m so tired of it that I don’t even want to fix it up (can’t afford anyway). Even moving furniture around does not help. Blarrrrrgghhhhhhhh. I need a job naaoooowwww. And I need to GET OUT OF HERRRRRRE.

    Okay, I’m done whining now.

    2. Anxa*

      Oh, I can commiserate on brain sludge.

      I tried a lot of other things, but really the only that really helped me work better from home was thing going better at work / moving. I was lucky enough to have a partner to catalyze my move, though.

      Lots of things helped, but never solved the issue. Because really I was just restless.
      Helped:
      -Decluttering.
      -Setting up a nice work corner
      -romantacizing imperfect work places. Mulder didn’t have natural light, a comfortable desk, and was surrounded by clutter and dreary, government buildings.

      1. Me*

        I do need to declutter. That might help a little; at least, it will distract me. I may ask around and see if I can find a place to get free boxes. The thrift store will pick up (everything except books), but I need more boxes to put stuff in. If I move, I would need to cut the amount of stuff I have in half at least, probably three-quarters at best. Though that doesn’t look likely at the moment, maybe it will help declutter my brain too!

    3. NoMoreMrFixit*

      I’m curious about the open-source stuff you mentioned. Can you give any details?

      Writing jobs are not always about technology. For example I just saw a writing job on indeed.ca for a tech writer for Toronto that covers writing recipes. As in cooking!

      Have you tried searching for “Professional Writer” positions? That may cover a wider variety than Technical Writer.

      Good luck with the job hunting. I’m in the same boat of living out in the boonies and trying to find a job. Not fun in the least.

      1. Me*

        I haven’t had a chance to look closely at it yet, but I found a couple of posts suggesting LyX, LaTeX, OpenOffice.org Writer, and GitHub. I already use WordPress, but I want to learn HTML because people keep asking for it. I started a tutorial at w3schools dot com and it seems pretty easy, if I can get my sludge brain to go back to it!

        1. NoMoreMrFixit*

          Thanks for the info. I’ve never heard of LaTeX being used outside academia but market demand may be different down in the States. HTML is a very good idea.

          OpenOffice Writer is my go to word processor.

          Good luck with the studies!

  181. Coffee Drip*

    This may be too late, but throwing it in anyways! I’m starting a new job on Monday (yay!).

    I have a ongoing mental health condition, and will need monthly appointments. Part of therapy and managing my health has been an awareness of what works for me and what doesn’t– these could pass as quirks, but include needing a few hours to plan for events/meetings; using white noise or music to focus on tasks (and this is an open office!); not being particularly social, especially after work; and asking more questions than what might be the norm to tease out gray situations, especially with rules and social situations.

    I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD, and my last clinician strongly suspected ASD, though we did not complete the screening process before I moved out-of-state. I can cope without any of those things, but my productivity is seriously hampered when that’s the case.

    So here’s the actual question! To what extent do I disclose these things to my boss/coworkers when I start, and how do I frame it? Struggling with changes to schedules (even an hour can make a huge difference) is something that people tend to pick up on. Do I wait until it happens, and mention afterwards that I do better if XYZ, if situations permit? Do I proactively mention it as a quirk or something that really helps me? I feel weird saying, “Here are some things about how I work that I am aware of, and it would be really great if…,” but I also /know/ that these (and others) are going to be a problem, and feel weird /not/ doing anything ahead of time.

    1. Jules the First*

      Hmmmm. I would proactively mention it (I do proactively mention mine), but the point at which I usually do it is when we are negotiating the offer, not on my first day. I guess in your situation, I’d wait and see how much looks like it will be easy to slip into the office’s normal culture and how much would need to be a specific accommodation, and then take it from there.

  182. Dazed and Confused*

    I’m a librarian with two PT jobs. In one job I’m a children’s librarian and in another I’m a reference librarian. I work as a reference librarian between 15 to 20 hours a week depending on the needs of the library. I also do adult programs as necessary, but usually at least 5 to 10 hours a week is spent at the reference desk. I enjoy both roles but children’s is where my passion lies. Last year our full time children librarian at my reference position was removed from the children’s department due to her odd behavior and patron complaints. Another full time reference librarian, Jane, was put in to replace the former children’s librarian, Marie. Marie started out doing a respectful number of children’s programs. We’re a large community with a lot of families who love to use the library. But gradually over the last year Marie has stopped doing almost anything. She took the whole month of May off to plan our kids summer reading program. The end result of this month off? 8 programs between the 1st of June and 31st of July scheduled. No programs in August and half of the programs are just entertainers. This is such a stark contrast to my other library where our children’s librarian does about five programs a week. FYI both librarians are about the same age (mid 30s) and have no health problems. There were complaints from the public about Marie not doing May programs so she asked me to do one so the complaints would cease.

    I love to do children’s programs and so I offered to do what I thought were much needed programs. One idea was a science club using legos. One of the performers was doing something similar so I wasn’t allowed to do that. This despite the fact that the performer is only coming one time. Also my program would have cost nothing to do and I was willing to work it into my normal schedule. There are other issues I’m having with Marie. I did a flyer for her as a favor and she lauded my flyer, telling me how much she loved it. She than turned towards my coworker and asked her to redo it because she actually hated it. Marie is acting like she’s my supervisor and she is not. Recently Marie updated her linkedin to say she oversaw a PT librarian at the library, I’m the only PT librarian. Ordering children’s materials is supposed to be her job, which she does a minimum of. She recently asked me to take over half of her ordering of the materials. This is in addition to my regular duties. She’s now always getting coworkers to take some of her work. She doesn’t advertise her programs soon enough and only puts out flyers about two weeks ahead of the program. This isn’t a time span long enough for people to hear about it and sign up. Marie is driving me up the wall. She’s lying and being lazy and I really don’t know what to do. The worst part of all of this? Her relative runs the library and she is retiring. And Marie might be taking her place.

  183. Anxa*

    Work lunch ideas:

    So two of the jobs I’ve been offered are pretty much “in the field.” When I interned several years ago, the common lunch method was grabbing fast food or a fast casual.

    I am too frugal to give up packed lunches. My current job is no longer near the microwave or fridge BUT it’s indoors and I can control the climate well.

    I am kind of finicky about not letting food sit in hot cars, but I don’t want to rely on boxed or shelf stable food. Running water or a food prep surface is unlikely.

    So far I have:
    Bananas
    Nuts
    Pre-washed avocado
    Carrots

    I’m not a fan of regular bread sandwiches and am trying to limit my sugar and other carbs.

    Any good dips for field work lunches? I will be in my car for the most part.

    1. CatCat*

      What about taking a small cooler and dinner leftovers? My lunch is dinner leftovers 99% of the time and I often eat my leftovers cold.

      1. jamlady*

        Same. I can do things like pasta, enchiladas, fajitas, etc. cold and it’s never been a problem. My most recent favorite, in an effort to lower carbs, was actually hummus with vegetables and homemade chia pudding (no dairy so it doesn’t sour). Protein shakes are an easy one too, though they do get boring.

    2. LK*

      insulated lunch kits with ice packs. If you don’t have microwave access, my usual recipe is:

      sandwich with PB&J / Lunch Meat / Tuna / BLT *or* deli roll ups *or* wraps with lettuce of choice (spinach or romaine or ???), julienne sliced veg like bell peppers, protein (chicken breasts or thighs, tofu, hard boiled egg, ???) and sauce (salad dressing, salsa,???). Wrap the wrap in tinfoil for easy eating and non-leaky packaging.
      Fruit (sliced apple or orange, banana, berries)
      Veg sticks with dip (hummus, ranch, baba ganoush)
      Granola Bar or some form of fatty protein (mixed nuts, trail mix)
      Sweet treat (cookies, brownie, chocolate of some sort) – this is for sanity on my end, feel free to omit
      Greek yogurt, portioned into Tupperware or single serving cup (greek is higher protein, that’s why I choose it)

      Insulated lunch boxes with an ice pack make your lunch limited by the lack of microwave more than food spoilage potential.

      1. Anxa*

        I don’t think my lunch bags will cut it. The interior of the car tops 120F, for hours. But I’m not sure why I didn’t think of putting my lunch bag in a cooler like CatCat suggested.

    3. overeducated*

      Hummus, muhammara, pita, veggies.
      Whole grain salads (barley, farro, etc.) That you can make ahead for the week.
      Bean salads,,again make ahead.
      Peanut butter for…dipping? With honey? What you dip depends just how much you want to avoid carbs and shelf stable foods like crackers. Fruit I guess?
      hard boiled eggs.

      I’ve done a lot of field work and bread was always a staple so I’m having trouble imagining eating enough to stay full doing physical work without it, honestly. But I eat a lot of carbs so it might be easier for you.

      1. Anxa*

        I think maybe I’ll stick to a lot of bean salads and put them in the freezer for a bit before packing.

        (Haha…I meant tips, not dips. Cold office hands)

    4. periwinkle*

      You can buy a cooler/warmer that plugs into the car’s 12V outlet. Make a big chef salad, keep it safely cool, have a great lunch. Heat up leftovers at home, put them in the cooler (with the warming function on), have a safely hot lunch. Amazon has cooler/warmers in a variety of capacities, most of them in the $40-$90 range. Seems like a worthwhile purchase if you’re working in the field most of the time.

      1. Anxa*

        I don’t think I can justify a purchase like right now, but that’s such a good tip for if these jobs become more permanent. I’d never thought of something like that.

    5. Chaordic One*

      When the weather is cool I like to bring along a thermos filled with hot soup. If you can bring along a small cooler or insulated lunch bag you might consider different kinds of salads. I have a friend who makes a number of different kinds of bean and/or vegetable salads.

    6. Gingerblue*

      Bento cookbooks have been a godsend for me. Also, I highly recommend the Mr. Bento line of lunch jars, which are really well insulated thermos flasks with smaller individual containers which stack inside them (usable for either hot or cold stuff). Also, if you try searching online for “bento lunches” there are a ton of great resources like flickr groups devoted to people showing off their packed lunches, which I found to provide helpful inspiration when I was in a food rut.

      There used to be a “Mr. Bento Porn” group on flickr but I think they changed the name, alas. It was just pictures of delicious looking food in Mr. Bento jars.

    7. Clever Name*

      I’m not a fan of sandwiches either. My go to lunch for fieldwork is an apple, cheese, lunchmeat, and crackers. It’s basically a ploughman’s lunch. Or adult lunchables.

  184. working for friends*

    Friend & I used to talk about making teapots together. They sent me an email asking if I wanted to make a teapot. I’m unemployed. I wrote back saying I’d need to be paid market rate or above. Haven’t heard from them since. Is this weird? I really can’t afford to make teapots for free. I’ve made them in the past & it turned out poorly. I literally have no money & it would cost me money just to show up.

    1. The Foreign Octopus*

      It’s not weird. People expect stuff for free and forget that this is how we make our living.

      I do some translation on the side of teaching English and a number of my students have asked me to translate various documents for them (not one-page documents either but websites and long technical reports) but when I tell them my rate, I never hear from them again.

      You did the right thing in expecting to be paid for your work. A script I use when this situations arise is:

      “I would be happy to translate your [whatever it is]. At the moment my schedule is a little tight but we can arrange a phone call for next week to discuss your requirements and my rates. Let me know when you’re available to talk.”

      I find that that keeps my translation clients as the clients who are professional and not time wasters.

      1. working for friends*

        Your script is really helpful. It’s validating knowing that I wasn’t totally off-base here. Thank you!

  185. Pathfinder Ryder*

    Best reply all you’ve received at work?

    My management’s looking at getting our department uniforms (a very similar one already has uniforms) but the uniform committee was getting very little feedback on it, so they sent out an e-mail basically saying, “Tell us your thoughts by [date] or we’ll assume you want a uniform.”

    Overnight I got five e-mails from people replying all to say “if there’s money for uniforms, there’s money for more pay” and it continued until management stepped in to say “if you haven’t replied already, just reply to [committee leader]”. It was delightful.

  186. Rock and a hard place*

    We have two “teapot manufacturers” in our small rural community. For more than a dozen years, I have been the public face of one of them, and was intensely loyal to it and opposed to the other for a variety of reasons. Over the past couple of years, a number of things changed; my loyalty waned and since I quit a month and a half ago, it has all but disappeared (though I still do care about a few of my co-workers who remain, and am grateful for their support throughout all our years working together).

    When I announced I was leaving, a manager at the other contacted me about doing part-time work there. I thanked her but told her no as I felt weird working for my competition. However, now I need some extra money (my new job in a different field was a significant pay cut) and I miss the type of work I was doing. I’m thinking of contacting the other manager and asking if they’ll still take me.

    I just feel slightly weird about it because on a smaller scale, it’s like Tom Bodett promoting the Holiday Inn, Michael Jordan promoting Adidas or the Brawny man promoting Bounty. Any thoughts?

    1. CatCat*

      It couldn’t hurt to inquire. The Verizon “Can you hear me now?” guy now promotes Sprint!

    2. atexit*

      I don’t understand this concept of loyalty to a company.
      It isn’t *your* company. You merely worked there.

      Reach out to the other manager.

  187. Running gal*

    This is more of an expression of excitement/anxiety. Just had an interview for a job at an organization I love working on an issue that I’m incredibly passionate about (it has great personal significance to me). I think it went really well. I had a connection to the org and the hiring manager reached out to me directly. We spoke and vibed really well on the phone. At the end of our call, the hiring manager told me that they’re hoping to have someone picked and in seat by end of the month/early next and that things tend to move slowly. They’re at the stage where they’re lining up the resumes to call people in for interviews. Then, I just received an email about coming in to meet with the VP who oversees the division and meet the hiring manager in person. What I’m curious about is–could the timeline change that much? Also, I’m slightly underqualified in terms of years of experience (they want 5, I’m coming in with 3). Part of me wonders if I need to worry about being set-up as a back-up in case a more experienced person that they interview doesn’t work out. Would they do that?

    Though that may be my anxiety talking. I feel like the solution here is to not overthink but I’m in a position in which I left my last role without a new position lined up. Also, I don’t want to appear overly interested in the position but this is a unicorn position. Great pay, nonprofit, good benefits, hard to get in, and in the field that I’m most passionate about. When I meet with the VP I do think it’s important to drive home why I’m so enthusiastic about the role on a personal level but is it possible to come across as too interested or too enthusiastic? Obviously not getting my emotions too caught up (I wouldn’t cry or anything) but any advice would be great!

  188. Cedrus Libani*

    Any tips on how to get your mojo back after a bad work experience?

    I worked at my last job for five years. My boss was…not a bad person, but we didn’t mesh well together. He’s the type to manage by the guess-and-check method…doesn’t want to explicitly micromanage, so gives vague instructions, but if you don’t do it the “right” way, you get to do it again (and again) until you do. We also have very different personal styles, which made it worse. When he had to keep sending back my work, he naturally concluded that I’m lazy and stupid, and treated me accordingly. (Admittedly, this didn’t bring out my best work; my fault for letting it get to me.)

    I’ve been unemployed for several months, and I need to start looking for work. But every time I try to update my resume, I go into this weird shame/anxiety spiral. I start imagining what my former boss would say on a reference call; I’m not good enough, I don’t know enough, I’m lazy and stupid and I suck. Part of me believes it.

    Objectively, I’m not that bad; I’ve got marketable skills, and previous bosses would tell you I walk on water. Also objectively, I’m going to have a terrible reference from this boss, though there are other people at his level who can speak well of me. Anyone else been in this hole and climbed out?

    1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      *Waves hand* me! me! I love your description of the guess-and-check – that drove me NUTS. Mine was also a micromanager though and insufferably stuck up so I would also get a complete look of disdain at some of my work. He was such an ass, I hated working for him (however his rigidity and insistence on the “right” way for work to look and be actually did instill some very very strong habits in me that make me look awesome today). Even better was that he held me back for promotions or change and threw me under the bus to his boss any number of times telling the head of the department that I wasn’t very good, one time even after I pulled an entire project myself, made recommendations that I have since seen implemented, and saved a huge company millions on an unnecessary acquisition because a phone call to another foreign branch informed them of a product we had in house that would work for their needs .I spent almost three years working for him until I was shifted around under another person.

      I am hearing you on the shame/anxiety and can tell you that after 4 years I no longer have that anxiety (except a few times when new workplace accepts work that he would never have and I tense up a bit). What helped for me was to take a step back and reframe what my brain was saying and “push through” the thoughts and anxiety. Other people loved my work, both there and previously, which meant a) I didnt suck and b) someone would love my work again. When I felt the anxiety after another job rejection I learned to:

      a) feel but not fight the anxiety – be aware that it would come, let it wash through me, but NOT hold on to it. To give it a few minutes, recognize where it was coming from (“you are feeling this way because X made you feel anxious. Its not true but this is the current response you are having to those thoughts. Its ok to have these feelings right now, but we need to move past in order to move forward”)

      b) Get right back on the horse and not dwell on the past and what happened. Break the tape loops in your head that may be replaying certain instances “confirming” your awfulness. That is his perception of you and likely reflects on something internal to him (in my case it was likely a ton of insecurity and a bit of sexism, I dont care what he would say about supporting women), but its not everyone’s perception. You lived it once, no need to relive experiences again

      c) Go out and do something just for you that hasn’t any relation to work. Do you volunteer or sports group or something else that you are good at or enjoy, that is a fairly judgemental free zone? Use that activity to reinforce your self-belief in yourself.

      You can totally do this, its just going to take some work on the mental front, time, and new experiences to put it behind you. I don’t think about him much anymore (new bosses think I walk on water, last bosses did too) because there is no reason to, although I will acknowledge he did help shape me into the professional I am today (along with some bad people management habits new boss has had to train me out of, namely micromanagement).

  189. Volunteer Enforcer*

    Does office politics around clothing still come into play when you see colleagues in different contexts? Me, the CEO and others are part of a weekly running club. Should I still wear something different each week like I would at the office?

    1. CatCat*

      Why would you need to wear something different to the running club each week? (Not sure I understand what you mean by “office politics around clothing.”)

    2. Former Retail Manager*

      I would be shocked if anyone paid attention to what you are wearing while running and getting all sweaty. I think whatever you normally wear to run in is perfectly fine. No need to buy new stuff.

    3. Cedrus Libani*

      If the CEO wants you to buy a new running outfit every week, then you should get a whopper of a raise…

      But then, I’m the type of person who owns a two-week supply of the same polo shirt, because I can’t be bothered to worry about my clothes until I’ve worn out the previous batch. Thank goodness for the tech dress code. =)

  190. Student*

    When there’s a large amount of uncertainty in your future employment, what do you do – stick it out until you actually get laid off, or start looking for a new job as soon as the future looks shaky? Why do you go with one approach vs. teh other?

    My work is dependent on the federal budget, and we’re looking at substantial volatility until the government passes a budget (if it ever does) – our projections for what happens to our budget in 4 months range from the catastrophic “one third of the company will get laid off” – that’s what’s “on paper” right now – to the rosy “maybe we’ll see significant growth” – based on a mix of optimism and past experience. If I were making a bet, I’d bet on a milder but nontrivial cut, hope for no budget change from last year on the outside odds, and consider an increase in funds or a 1/3 axe chop to be the outlier possibilities.

    Thing is, if we do get the axe, so will most other places in my industry, so waiting for the axe to actually hit means I’d be competing for remaining jobs with a lot of other people with similar skills. I’ve no idea whether it makes sens to wait until the very unpredictable budget process gets to some firmer track, or if I should get resumes out to less-impacted industries immediately.

    1. CatCat*

      Having been in a similar situation (where my whole office ended up getting laid off), I’d look now. It could not hurt to look now and you may find a great fit.

  191. Effie*

    How much notice should I give my employer when I’m expected to cover my coworker’s maternity leave? In about 5 weeks I’ll be relocating from the East Coast to the West Coast for health reasons and because I have an opportunity there to further my artistic career. I haven’t told my employer yet (everything was finally confirmed a week ago). I’m planning to stay through July 5 (my flight’s on July 6) and my coworker’s maternity leave starts mid to late July. I’d like to give them as much notice as possible, and I’m afraid that if I give them so much notice they’ll ask me to leave early and I really cannot afford to not have income (also I wouldn’t have any health insurance coverage in July). I haven’t been here long enough to see how they consistently treat people who give them lots of notice – in my time here we’ve had one employee give 3 weeks’ notice and the office director jumped into getting their replacement right away so that they’d have 1-2 weeks of overlap for training purposes. Should I just swallow my fears and give them notice on Monday?

    2. CAA*

      If you are in the U.S, they have to offer you COBRA coverage to extend your health insurance for up to 18 months, so you’ll have to pay 100% of the cost for July and onwards, but you can’t be cut off completely. You can actually elect COBRA up to 60 days retroactively, so you can wait and see if you really need a doctor in July before deciding to sign up. Also, even if you work until July 5, there’s no guarantee that the company would pay your health insurance up to July 31. Ours ends on your last day of employment and that seems to be becoming more common.

      It would be kind of you to give notice this Monday so they have more time to deal with the fallout, but if you don’t want to, then 2 weeks is the minimum. It’s very likely that even a company that doesn’t push people out early would make your last day be June 30th in this case though. It has to make good business sense for them to keep you on, and the 5th is a Wednesday with the 4th as a holiday and a lot of people are going to be on vacation that week in most companies (assuming you are in the U.S.) Our HR people will typically push for a last day that is either a Friday or the end of the pay period and the 30th is both of those, so don’t be surprised if they only keep you that long no matter how much notice you give.

  192. Not a Cat Lady*

    I’m not sure if this should go in today’s open forum or tomorrow’s (sorry if it’s the wrong one) but how do people afford to live on a salary? I’ve just been realizing like… with student loans and rent and medical insurance an groceries, I’ve been spending the last 6 years since I graduated not really living my life. All I do is work and then go home and work on my own writing projects. It’s really bad. I can’t afford to go out and I have no social life because I can’t paid for the cab ride home. I buy clothes basically never, so I wouldn’t know what to wear if I went out anyway. I wear the same thing to work every week. Do people just not go out in their 20s unless they have a trust fund? What am I doing wrong?

    1. CatCat*

      When I was just scraping by in a high cost of living city, I did a lot of free/low cost stuff (actually, I still do…)

      Museums often have free days. Local parks are good for picnics and tossing around frisbees. Walking through interesting neighborhoods is free (I had one friend who wrote up walking tours of the interesting neighborhoods and shared them). Libraries often have free events. I know a lot of people like meetup.com to meet others with common interests.

    2. Manders*

      Honestly, the people who are going out constantly in their 20s do have a larger cushion than most of their peers. I was lucky enough to have some extra money to set aside for entertainment, but that was because I didn’t have student loans and I had an equally frugal partner to split living expenses with.

      I found several groups of friends who are very thrifty and one that’s frank about money. My thrifty friends are good at organizing potlucks and finding free events. I could tell my friends who are frank about money when I couldn’t afford to attend an event without worrying about whether I had offended them. I did find myself drifting away from friends who weren’t willing to consider less expensive outings.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      I’m in my early 20s. I don’t go out much because I don’t like to go out, but I can certainly afford it.

      I live in a place with a low COL and I have already repaid my student loan debt. A lot of my coworkers rely on credit cards to fund their lavish lifestyles. I buy cheap food, rarely eat out, and try to buy in bulk when things are on sale (chicken thighs, ground meat, eggs, and produce are pretty much all I buy and need to live).

      You are doing the responsible thing by living within your means.

    4. Sparkly Librarian*

      You might not be doing anything wrong, but perhaps you can adjust your mindset about what constitutes a social life. Possible social interactions: have friends over to yours for a potluck, take turns hosting a simple supper, watch a film together (online, on a TV if you or they have one, $5 movie night, free outdoor screening), stage a dance party at home if you want an excuse to get dressed up/not pay bar premiums, take a hike or bike ride or city walk together and bring water/snacks/a picnic, First Fridays or free museum admission days or free concerts, library programs, book club, gaming night (video or card or board, as suits you). When I had my slimmest entertainment budget, I didn’t like to have people over because my apartment was tiny and shared, so I went to a bunch of house parties held at a friend’s and helped her with setup or cleanup. I was also able to volunteer as an usher with some performing groups and get to see their shows that way.

      1. Not a Cat Lady*

        I appreciate your suggestion about a new mindset. =)

        But I don’t really have friends to be social with. Believe me — I’d LOVE to know any friend who has house parties. How did you meet them?

        1. Sparkly Librarian*

          Oh, so it’s meeting people to be social with! That is a tougher problem (or has been for me). Some people are social hubs and some are definitely not. I am not. I met that particular friend because she loves to entertain and actually runs a social club in addition to having at least two or three private get-togethers a week; when I moved here after college I saw one of her online ads for an upcoming event and got in touch to see if I could attend. Most of the people I know in this area that I haven’t met through work or choir are people I met through her. So I’m afraid I’m stuck with the usual advice: do things you like to do or are interested in learning, and see who you meet while you’re there. Meetup.com. Volunteer. Church, etc. Ask people you already know to introduce you to likeminded folks. Ask people you know casually to do something together.

    5. atexit*

      LBYM = living below you means
      is a good thing

      many who want to early retire do that

      I know an unemployed friend paying $140 for cable + internet + telephone
      I pay $45. I only have basic cable (network channesl) + slowest internet
      That’s an extra $95 a month I have for other things.

      I don’t buy a new smartphone every time a new model comes out.
      I have a $45 Motorola E 2nd Gen on a Tracfone plan.

    6. Anxa*

      I didn’t go out much in my mid to late 20s. SO and I have a date night once per season, and more now that money usnt as bad. Money’s still bad but we can stay afloat and having grown up middle class and becoming poor as adults we had a hard time letting go of doing activities with friends. When I turned 30 and saw myself getting physically older and having spent the last years of my real youth putting off hair cuts, not buying new clothes and never going out I decided that a few hundred dollars a year to have fun or feel good was either not going to make a difference or that if it did, that was even more reason to have moments of splurging and joy,

    1. Daria Grace*

      Well at least they’re being up front about their troubling culture I guess

    3. Undine*

      It’s behind a paywall, so I can’t read it, and I am not a llama, but it seems to me there’s potential for women to sue on the basis that a physical test is a proxy for gender.

  194. Courageous Cat*

    I recently started a new job a month ago, but it was mainly out of desperation because my old one was laying me off soon and I needed something around the same pay range. It’s mostly fine but my boss and I are increasingly seeing eye-to-eye less (on how to manage other people, specifically).

    I am starting to look for new jobs, but because of my current one, I am really limited in the times I can interview. HOWEVER, I do not want to just be like “sorry I can’t interview then, I have my current job” because A) that job is not on my resume for obvious reasons and B) they’re gonna wonder why I’m leaving so soon, and frankly I think that’s just too much to get into before they have even met me.

    I have been talking to people as if it’s a temp job, but given my limited interviewing time slots and the fact that I’ll want to give two weeks notice just to be courteous… that may not add up for an interviewer. I feel like they’ll wonder why I’m being inflexible to work with over a temp job.

    I dunno. Any ideas?

    1. atexit*

      Even if your job is a temp job, unless it isn’t fulltime, you’d be working 40 hours a week, so you would still be limited in being able to take time off for an interview. You are expected to be there *at* work.

      Most interviews shouldn’t take more than half a day. Usually 1 hour or less has been my experience.
      Cross the bridge about asking for time off when you get an interview request.

      I would schedule an interview for earliest time possible in the morning. 8am. Then you can tell your current boss that you have a doctor’s appointment.

      1. Courageous Cat*

        Ah, it’s actually not so much about finding the time for the interview, but rather, how to explain to my prospective employer what my current situation is! Basically whether to say it’s a temp job, or tell them the truth, that it’s a permanent job that just isn’t working out.

  195. char*

    I’m proud of myself because I enforced a boundary with a coworker today. I haven’t always been good at enforcing my boundaries, so it feels like a big triumph for me!

    See, my coworker kept making weird, sexual jokes about me. (This is the second time in as many weeks that he has suggested that me eating a banana is somehow erotic. Dude, I’m just trying to eat lunch.) He wasn’t picking up on my hints that I was uncomfortable with that, so today I calmly and directly asked him not to make sexual jokes about me. He actually took it pretty well, so I’m feeling hopeful that we can continue to have a friendly-but-professional relationship going forward.

    For the record, we’re both young-ish men, and I’m pretty sure he’s just joking around with me like he would with a friend and genuinely didn’t realize how inappropriate it is in the workplace.

    3. Jessesgirl72*

      He probably knew he couldn’t say that to a female, but thought it was okay with another guy. Now, hopefully, he knows!

  196. Past Blu Riddance*

    Our performance reviews are done the day after the budget is approved. Therefore it’s so hard to ask for raises. How do we get around this?

    1. CatCat*

      Ask for a raise earlier than the performance review. Gather your materials to make your case for a raise and make it before the performance reviews and budget finalization occurs.

      1. Kinder and Gentler Manager*

        Yes. Bonus points for bringing up that you are aware it may not be effective until after the formal review.

  197. Daria Grace*

    Up until a couple of weeks ago, a co-worker thought her spouse’s cancer would be treatable but now they’ve discovered it’s terminal. She’s doing a masterful job pushing on with her work but I can tell she’s under strain. Any of you got advice on how to support her? She’s quite open about what’s happening and we get on well but I’m mindful of not overstepping boundaries in the work place. Unfortunately the nature of how our work is assigned and monitored by managers means I can’t really take much work off her.

    1. Kinder and Gentler Manager*

      Can you give her flexibility in when and where she works? I am thinking being able to work wherever her spouse is will be something that matters quite a bit as time goes on. Maybe think about a few options that guarantee her job security should she need to take a sabbatical or extended leave near the end/after her spouse passes?

  198. Stella-Ella-Oh-La*

    This is buried but I need help from any Ontario, Canada readers!

    During my probationary period, I had my full-time hours cut in half with NO notice, and was let go by email today. I had a miscarriage, and my doctor today put me on a short leave. I emailed in my doctor notes and proof of my ultrasound appointment tomorrow, and my response was my termination.

    Do I have any recourse, even though this all happened within my 90 day probation period? I’m so angry. Thank you if you read this!

  199. Trix*

    My husband just applied for an IT Support job at a local Christian college. He didn’t really grow up around religion at all, and it’s not a part of our lives. The job sounds amazing, but one of the qualifications is “Personally committed to (college)’s Christian culture and mission.”

    Anyone have any experience working in a religious environment when you aren’t religious? Were there questions you wish you’d asked in the interview (or did ask, and they were helpful)?

  200. jamlady*

    I just finished week 3 at my new job and it’s so amazing. My boss is amazing, coworkers are amazing, we have a kitchen staff that will make food for us all day to order and it digitally comes right out of our paycheck (cheap, too)… I think I may have found my place.

  201. Chaordic One*

    Last weekend I posted about having an interview during the previous week. I thought the interview went well and I really liked the job and the people I met, but before I could send them a thank you email, I received an email from them thanking me and letting me know that the position had been filled by someone else. I asked if I should bother sending a thank you email at that point and I was encouraged to send one anyway by Ramona Flowers and Zathras.

    I sent one to the three people who interviewed me thanking them for the interview. Then I made a couple of sincere comments about the work the employer did and my genuine admiration for it and I wrapped it up by saying how I liked to have worked with them and I kind of restated my qualifications. (Sort of similar to the ones recommended by Allison, but (I think) a bit more low-key, since the position had (as far as I knew) already been filled.

    Today, they called me back. Their first choice who accepted the position last week has since backed out and they want to re-interview the next top ten applicants. It sounds a bit weird to me, and I’m not sure if my thank you email helped or not. (It certainly didn’t hurt, though.) At this point I have a much better idea about what the actual job entails now and I’m going to be rereading Allison’s interview tips again for the second interview next week.

  202. Needs Advice*

    I’m working part time for over a year at my company, but I’m basically a glorified intern, and I graduated a few years ago and I’m still looking for a full time job in my industry. I’m having trouble keeping my spirits up in the job hunt because I’ve been trying for years now. At my current place, I’m doing a lot of packing boxes for sales reps overseas which is pretty draining and I kind of have burn out now, but I can’t leave until I have something secure in its place. Any advice on how to keep up your spirits in the job hunt?

  203. Her Grace*

    I work in IT and have been with the same organisation for the past 17 years. There’s a chance over the next three years I may be looking for another job. I’ll have to revamp my resume.

    My question is, how do I list a volunteer organisation that has had an overwhelmingly and positive impact on my skill base?

    I belong to a religion that has a volunteer lay priesthood. For the past thirty years I’ve been an active part of that lay priesthood every single week, doing everything from teaching Sunday School, to secretary work, to running big projects, to organising regular events for over three hundred people. I’m amazed at the number of skills I’ve gained, skills that could help me in a secular workplace. I’d love to be able to communicate this mad skillz set to a prospective employer, but don’t know the best way of communicating thirty years worth of volunteer work on my resume without overblowing my resume. Sometimes I feel my volunteer work alone (church as well as other vol work) could fill its own resume.

    Any ideas?

    1. The Foreign Octopus*

      I think I remember Alison suggesting a relevant skills section on a CV. That might be appropriate for you. I wouldn’t put down everything though. I work by the rule of three normally, so choose the three skills that you think are best suited for whatever job you’re applying for and incorporate them that way. Like you said, you really don’t want to overload them so narrow it down to the most relevant under Relevant Experience.

  204. Trixie*

    Update on the department retreat I’m helping organize. For outdoor activities, we’ll have cornhole and molkky. Molkky it’s kind of like outdoor bowling meetings bocci ball. Kubb looks fun too but we’re limited on space.
    Our other activity is making your own terrarium. We’ll provide materials and let everyone go at it. No major talent required and we’ll include little figurine toys like dinosaurs, gnomes, etc. We might also making it kind of like musical chairs or speed dating where we move everyone over one or five places and continue building someone else’s. And/or having a White Elephant theme where at the very end, let everyone pick the one they like and want to keep. (I think it’s also called Dirty Santa.)

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      For Christmas, we got my SIL and BIL a yard Yatzee set. We got it at a Craft fair (the in a bucket kind) for less than Amazon wants for the in a bag kind.

  207. waterbottles*

    I’m a professional composer. Sometimes I hire freelance musicians to play for me. I’m very professional, and they are too, but I’d like to be more friendly with them. Do you have any advice for turning a professional relationship into more of a friendly one?

    1. Clever Name*

      Start chatting with them. Ask them polite questions about or stuff they did on the weekend. Really general stuff (so, any kids? Do anything fun for Memorial Day?) That makes it easier for them to deflect if they rather not share, but they’re open enough to start a friendly conversation. Try to remember stuff they tell you and ask questions when you see them again. (How was the big trip you were planning when we last talked? How are the twins liking summer camp?) That’s how I’ve gotten to know a couple of colleagues better.

  208. Nacho*

    My little brother graduated 2 years ago, and he’s had no luck at all with jobs since then. The last job he had was in October, when he decided he wasn’t happy and pretty much stopped doing half his job until they eventually fired him (to be fair, they apparently told him when he was interviewing that it would be reception work, then decided he wasn’t confident enough for that and just made him a janitor instead). I managed to get him a job at the call center I work, but after only two weeks of training, our mother tells me he’s thinking of quitting and going back to volunteering a few hours a week instead. He says it’s too loud and too hard to remember everything he needs to do when he gets a call. I really feel like he should stick around for at least a few months, both to give it a chance and because I get a $1100 bonus if he lasts even one month after training. Any advice on how to convince him to stick with it?

    1. Former Employee*

      The only way I can think of to get your brother to stay at the job is to offer to give him a percentage of or flat amount from your bonus.

      Separately, I would suggest that he find a reputable job counseling service where he can be tested to see what sorts of jobs are suitable for him. Either he is applying for the wrong jobs or he needs more training as to how to deal with people, situations, etc., that are part of doing a job.

      Best of luck to both you and your brother.

    2. Whats In A Name*

      Is he open to conversation around this? Do you have the kind of conversation where you can talk to him about the normal growing pains of having a new job and learning a new trade without it sounding like you are lecturing him? (asking b/c sometimes I have a tone issue even when I don’t mean to!)………And not growing pains like “hey we hired you to be a receptionist but you’re going to be a janitor instead!” I mean, seriously, WTF?

      I also think offering him a percentage of your bonus (25%) could work? Even 50%? I know it would give you less money but still more than if he would leave and you got $0.

  209. Lou*

    I’m going to a company job evening – described as “an informative group discussion with our sales leaders” and also and “opportunity for one-on-one discussions with the teapot team team following the event”

    Do I add a cover letter to my resume that I’m bringing along? Or does the one-on-one discussion negate the need for one?

    1. Jules the First*

      No need for a cover letter when you hand over your resume in a one to one meeting – especially if there’s no specific job opening.

  210. Jemima Bond*

    Hello everyone, I’m trying to gauge if it would be effective for me to email a full question to Alison – I’m not only in the UK but a civil servant, and our ways are strange. Applying for jobs internally, which I’d want to ask about, works in a totally different way from everything I read here (no CV, no salary negotiation!) and I’m not sure if she’d be able to help? Are there a lot of UK commenters that could weigh in?

    1. The Foreign Octopus*

      I’m UK and applied for the Civil Service externally but no dice as I didn’t pass the phone interview, but there are a number of UK commenters on here. I say, send the letter!

  212. consultant*

    I’ve applied for a job with a salary range in the job advert. To be honest, I mainly applied for it, because the salary range was very attractive, about 15% more than what I normally quote as my salary expectation. The position is ok too, otherwise I wouldn’t have applied, but the company is totally unknown in the field (I currently work for a leader company in the area) and the focus of the position would be very narrow, much narrower than in my current job. This could create problems if I get the job and then want to switch jobs after several years. As I say, I normally quote less as my salary expectation, but also apply at big, well-known companies that would look good on my CV.

    At the same time during the interview I got the impression they may offer me considerably less money than what they wrote in the advert.

    Given the arguments raised above (unknown company, risky position), I don’t think I would be interested in the position if they paid less than advertised. At the same time, I’d never applied for a position with a salary range in the ad before and I’m asking myself whether changing the salary during the job interview is normal. How would you react to that? To be honest, I’m a bit irritated that they seem to want to change the offered salary and struggle not to show it.

    Btw, I have exactly the skills they required in the ad, I’m not less qualified.

      1. Jules the First*

        We’re still here…

        If they post the salary in the job ad and then change it when they offer it, then they’ve just told you something about them: they’re lousy employers. It’s always better to learn that before you take the job!

        1. consultant*

          So you also think that the salary in the advert is quite binding, i.e. it could be changed to some extent if the employee-to-be is considerably under- or overqualified but normally shouldn’t and the company should stick to it?

        2. Whats In A Name*

          I agree with Jules. The salary in the advertisement should reflect what they are willing to pay someone with the skills and experience to do the job they need. You said you have the exact qualifications in the ad.

          If they go up to compensate for over-qualified folks that’s one thing, but advertising a range they can’t pay or aren’t willing to pay is a big clue into how they may operate. I know you said they are small but I’d see what I could find out from former or current employees (Glassdoor maybe?).

          It also sounds like outside of salary you don’t see much upside in taking this job. I’d think that over too and pretty deeply (maybe a pro/con list, maybe an appointment with a therapist if you have one)

          FWIW I have moved just for salary before and ended up stalling my career. So while the paycheck was nice in the long run it didn’t pay off.

          1. consultant*

            Thanks for the comment.

            I agree with you that one shouldn’t take a job only because of the salary it offers. On the other hand, I’m currently in a job which I accepted mainly because of the promises I will learn a lot, enhance my skills, get valuable experience and be sent to take various courses, at the cost of a lower salary. I ended up being horribly underwhelmed and learning nothing for months. (I.e. I learnt a lot – I was proactive and put forward plenty of initiatives – but it was a struggle and it isn’t reflected in the name of my position. Also I took additional courses, worked on my technical skills – but all that in my free time, since in my paid time I perform silly, mindless, repetitive tasks a 10 year old could perform).

            The problem is companies lie about the jobs they offer and the chances to get a promotion a lot… And that’s normally not something you can call them out on. Whereas a salary is something tangible – something you have in your contract, something company can’t go back on easily. I guess my current position changed my perspective a bit ;)

  213. Rye-Ann*

    I know I’m really late to the party but I need to at least get this off my chest. It’s mostly a rant but if anyone has advice for me it is welcome. :)

    TL;DR: Coworker hired a little over 3 months ago doesn’t seem to be learning the job, doesn’t always listen, doesn’t read directions, and is rude to one particular person on our team. The rest of the team isn’t exactly fond of this person either, including our supervisor. I have a hard time holding out hope that things can improve under these circumstances.

    Long version: My newest coworker is not working out well. They don’t seem to be picking up much of what we’re teaching them about our processes. Recently we were doing something that they’ve done several times before (enough that they really should be able to do it independently). When I say “we” I mean that they were doing it for one product and I was doing it for another. They tried to start their portion before getting me to check their set-up, which is a standard part of basically EVERY process we do in our department. They had also forgotten to do Step 0, something we do before basically everything and which is really important. They also…didn’t particularly remember how to do the paperwork for this process. That part isn’t as bad, and I’m happy to answer questions about it, but I was surprised at just how much they had forgotten.

    I will grant them that, in that particular scenario, they hadn’t done that type of work for awhile (maybe 3 weeks or so?), so of course some things are bound to be forgotten. But it really worries me that a) they forgot 2 of the most important, basic things that we do in our work and b) one of those things was getting a second person to check their set-up before starting. The second one is very important because it’s how we catch mistakes before they happen (mistakes which generally can’t be undone due to the nature of our work). Now, if they couldn’t quite remember what to do but ASKED me to help them remember that would be one thing, but they didn’t. Also just about everything about how to perform a process is spelled out in SOPs, including the need for someone to verify your setup and the proper cleaning procedure. It was RIGHT THERE for them to read even if they didn’t think to ask me, which indicates to me that they think they know what they’re doing. Or something.

    In general, they have a problem listening to directions sometimes. I’ve witnessed our team lead (and other people) tell them to do something, sometimes several times, and they will proceed to not do it/do the opposite and claim, “Oh, I didn’t know that” or “Oh, I wasn’t told that” when asked about it. Before you ask, no, this is not their 1st job out of college. I’m not 100% sure what their work history is but I know they had a job before they moved to our area.

    On top of that, while they’re pretty nice to me they are apparently really rude to another coworker on our team (“A”). I haven’t witnessed the worst behaviors that Coworker A has told me about, but when I am in the same room as both of them, I’ve definitely seen them be rude to A. They haven’t meshed well with the rest of the team either, socially. I’m fairly certain neither our supervisor nor the team lead like them much, and frankly I don’t either (especially given their treatment of Coworker A). Granted, the important thing is that we can work together, not that we like each other. But the fact is that it makes the whole situation even harder, especially given that right now, we really CAN’T work with him. As far as I can tell, they are here to stay, but I can’t help but look at this whole thing and think: “How the heck is this supposed to work!?!?”

    1. Rye-Ann*

      Whoops, I guess I wasn’t totally done editing this. I started to refer to “the proper cleaning procedure” as “Step 0” but didn’t change it throughout the post. Hopefully it’s not too confusing.

    2. Clever Name*

      We just had to let an employee go who was similar to this. I’m honestly still baffled by him. He’s in his 40s, has a graduate degree and lists many years of experience on his resume. However, he lacks basic critical thinking skills and wasn’t even proficient in a task he claimed to be an expert on. On top of all that, he acted really condescending to basically everyone on the team.

      1. Clever Name*

        Oh, and he also didn’t listen either. People would review his work and tell him he needed to change something, and he’d either argue with you or he’d just not make a requested change (which is against our quality policy).

        1. Rye-Ann*

          That’s pretty obnoxious, sorry you had to deal with it too! My coworker also says some fairly condescending things, though I’m not sure if he actually means them that way. He is older than his peers (i.e. me and the other people on the team at his level, including Coworker A), so theoretically he should have more experience than us, but you wouldn’t know it working with him!

          Out of curiosity, how long did you give him to improve before deciding to let him go?

  214. Mimmy*

    TL;DR – Things are improving at my new job, but I know it’s not a role I want to be in long-term. Plus, it’s now become clear that my co-instructor feels “overlooked”.

    This was a really good week at my new job. My supervisor finally came upstairs to observe me for a few minutes while I was doing my instruction (my job is primarily to help with keyboard instruction for blind & visually impaired adults). It was great timing because I had two students at the same time, which can be a challenge to juggle, and she said I handled it very well. She also complemented me on how I corrected a student. Last week, this supervisor complemented me on my reporting after a case conference.

    This is a huge deal for me because I have sworn up and down to myself that I would never work with people again due to anxiety about being a little bit awkward and worrying about saying or doing something the wrong way–much of that was fueled by past experiences and comments by others. However, I think I subconsciously knew that I have the skills because I was always wrestling with whether I wanted to go back to direct client services or if I wanted to be more behind the scenes, like program evaluation or grant writing.

    I don’t know that this is what I want to be doing long-term though. I can say for certain that I do not want to be in this specific role for long, at least not in a full-time capacity. I’ve only been in this job a little over two months, but I’m already trying to think strategically as to what my next logical steps would be. My supervisor did say she wants to expand my role behind just keyboard instruction.

    And that’s the other problem. Long story short, my supervisor now acknowledges that my co-instructor, who has more experience, feels overlooked. Co-Instructor has ranted about this to me a number of times, which makes me feel very uncomfortable and even guilty for wanting to do more at the center we work at.

    I’m not even sure I want to stay at the center, or even with the state division who runs this center. There’s a bit of an “us vs. them” vibe between students and administration, and it nearly caused one student to quit the program. I know this is very common in human service programs, particularly those run by the government, but it goes against some of the values I developed in the graduate certificate program I completed last year.

    1. Mimmy*

      I meant to ask if anyone had any thoughts or advice. I want to do this right this time and not get myself into a situation in which I’ll be miserable and/or get veered off my career track yet again.

  215. Ignored Top Performer*

    Hi Posters,

    I’m in a state of utter frustration. I’m hoping you can guide me. I’ve never posted here.

    I work for a major healthcare organization; I’ve been there a full year. It has policies and protocols for policies and protocols. There is a formal hiring process, as well as internal candidate protocol–which is publicly encouraged.

    I am a top performer. That is not my subjective view. It was been written in formal reviews, and I receive written and verbal praise from leaders and peers across the organization. I am the first to successfully pilot programs, mentor peers (even though it’s not in my job description; they seek me out), perform extra tasks and certainly meet expectations in my core competencies/required functions.

    I have clearly expressed to my manager and director my desire to advance to a leadership role. They have said that this is on point with my trajectory. They have, however, been vague in providing a specific career path. I was encouraged to seek internal opportunities–which I did.

    I recently applied for an internal manager position–it is with my current team; same director. This was in May. Since then, I’ve had to inquire several times about the status of my application. My director finally said it never made it through to her; HR resolved that. My director said she’d outreach me to discuss; it’s been weeks and no outreach. She’s now on PTO and I do know that she’s been conducting interviews for the role.

    My manager has said that she thinks I’m overqualified. But the hiring manager (director) has not made time with me; after I’ve clearly and on more than one occasion requested so. My manager keeps telling me to “hang on” for the right opportunity, there will be “a lot of opportunities down the road.” Again, not a word from the director. I think they’re blowing smoke up my rear.

    My gut is telling me they do not want to lose me in the “field,” because I am so good at my job, and they are blatantly avoiding me. And, again, I have been put in a position where I am going to pilot a high-priority project–it’s to begin in the next two weeks. I did not ask for this assignment. There are plenty of other staff members.

    I do not at all appreciate how I am being treated.

    On the one hand; I receive all this positive feedback and am assigned high-priority projects. I am a “go-to” person. But leadership’s vague communications to me about my career path and flat-out absence of engaging me, in spite of my reaching out, is frustrating beyond words.

    Don’t they know this is a fast track to my resignation?

    Meanwhile, they continue to load me with assignments that are not in alignment with my goals–and I failed to mentioned that they have entirely changed my job description–without notification–twice since joining the team. These changes were not lateral moves.

    Please help me out here. I know this is business. But I am feeling entirely used, mislead, ignored and sucked dry. I am getting the runaround. And leadership certainly demonstrates that they can make time for what is a priority to them; they can advance what and whom they desire.

    Signed,
    The Ignored Top Performer they Love to Rely On

    1. Jules the First*

      Sounds like you’re pretty unhappy in your job. Taking what you’re saying at face value (ie, that they are blowing smoke and have zero intention of promoting you, ever) then it’s pretty clear that you should be actively looking for new opportunities elsewhere if being promoted is important to you.

      But to give you an alternative perspective, May was only a few days ago and it’s not unusual to take weeks to evaluate applications to the first round of interviews, especially if the director has been on PTO. Hiring can take months (even internally) if a company is genuinely committed to finding the absolute best person for the role (especially if they have to interview external candidates alongside internal ones – it takes time to find those people, and you want to do all your interviews at once so you can meaningfully compare people). Depending on how long ago y’all had the chat about wanting a leadership position, it could also be that they absolutely support your ambition to be in a formal leadership position – when the right one comes available, and it could be key here that your manager thinks you’re overqualified for this particular opening – and that in the meantime, they’re trying to meet your stated ambitions for more challenging work and high profile work by assigning you to all these pilots and test projects. As for the vagueness of their engaging you on your career ambitions, it’s entirely possible that they would love to support your career ambitions and they just have no idea how…I’ve certainly been in that spot where they knew I wanted more leadership stuff and they desperately wanted to give me that, but there simply wasn’t anything that they thought was worth giving me.

      If I were you, I’d take a couple of weekends off and do some other stuff that recharges you – because there’s no point job hunting when you’re this angry with your employer – and then start looking at what else is out there…not with the intention of applying, just yet, but to understand what your options would be if you went elsewhere.

  216. Epsilon Delta*

    Any suggestions on where to buy summer shirts for a business casual/casual office? Seems like everything is either sleeveless or cap sleeved (or those stupid sleeves with the top cut out). Nice tshirts are ok for our office but I can’t bring myself to spend more than $10 on a plain t shirt.

    I am a tiny woman– 4’11 and skinny, basically I am the size of a 14 or 16 year old — so I have trouble finding clothes in the women’s section or even in women’s petite. It looks like I am either wearing a sack or playing dress up. Clothes for teenagers fit me but there are not a lot of options that scream “adult.” So any suggestions in that regard would be helpful too!

    Primarily I’ve been shopping at Goodwill with a lot of success, or Kohl’s for long sleeved shirts, but I’d like some other options!

    2. Also Petite*

      Have you looked at Lands’ End? I think their stuff is good quality, with a variety of sizes, and you can return it at Sears if it doesn’t work out. They often have specials, so make sure you do a search for promo codes, etc.

      Also, FWIW, even when I buy petite sizes, I end up getting a lot of things shortened: Pants (always); skirts (frequently); and even tops/blouses (I’m short-waisted, as well). It’s amazing that a blouse can go from frumpy to stylish sometimes with as little as an inch taken off the bottom. Since it’s not a complicated alteration, your dry cleaners should be able to do it for about $10 USD.

    3. ESophia*

      I’m also very petite, and have tried everything out there – definitely understand the struggle! My office is also business casual too, thankfully, as I’m not cut out for the discomfort of business dress. I like Ann Taylor and LOFT – they have nice prints and styles and their XXS size tops fit me well. I have a couple of summer short-sleeved shirts from them (regular length, not cap!) and other tops too. I would say that sometimes these two brands have odd size disparities in their merchandise – sometimes things fit perfectly, and then other times the XXS runs huge. I always make sure to try on or read reviews before buying. Banana Republic’s XXS tops are also good too, and H&M size 0 or 2 (their sizing tends to run small). All of these brands usually have great sales (like additional 40% clearance), the tops I’ve bought from them were $10-$20.

  217. Anon For This*

    I’m being stalked by a former co-worker. What can I do? Looking for free or extremely low cost resources.

    Long Version:

    A few years ago, I was at a job where I was very unhappy. I was doing a lot of work while a certain group of co-workers took credit for it, openly mocked me, and told everyone that my job was very simple and entry level and that I was only there to “look nice” (yes, this all fell along gender lines). I also disagreed with some of the company’s business practices. Very strongly. I was actively looking to leave.

    Around that time, an old friend in a distant part of the country passed away suddenly and tragically. I was very upset about it and actually broke down crying at a mandatory team building event. I tried to be discreet about it, but Co-worker, who I had barely spoken with before, approached me and asked what was wrong. Then he bought me a drink. And another drink. And kept asking for information about my friend in a way that seemed really odd and less than genuine. He kept kind of following me around and trying to buy me drinks, using my friend’s death as an excuse. I eventually just went and sat with other people.

    At work, things got a little weird too. He kept asking me to have lunch with him. When I left, he crashed my going away party. He added me on Facebook. I shouldn’t have accepted, but I was really desperate for references since my boss had lied to so many people about what I was actually doing there. So, in a moment of bad judgment, I did.

    For the past two years, he’s been sending me messages begging me to come back to work there or have drinks with him. He comments on everything I post that’s set to public (I have him on the restricted setting). His comments are really weird and imply that we know each other well and have for a long time. He comes to events I participate in and films me. I’ve politely gone along with it all because I’m worried about what will happen if I don’t.

    I’m still job hunting. I don’t have any references from that job that I can use despite having done some impressive work there. This guy is married, has kids, and is old friends with one of the executives there, the one under which I worked. I give him the benefit of the doubt to some extent. There’s a chance he means well but is just sort of odd socially. But I can’t help but feel really creeped out, and scared that if I block him on Facebook or something, he’ll do something weird with his films of me in order to retaliate . . . or something like that. There’s something really weird about all of it, but on the other hand, I don’t know him very well so who knows. I could be over reacting. Thoughts?

    2. Cruciatus*

      Whoa. You need to restrict him from any access to your accounts–unfriend him entirely. You should not use him as a reference. You will find another way. None of this is normal. People don’t just film other people. What would be in these films that would be blackmail worthy? If he did release the videos, I think most people would think he’s the odd one, not you. Document all of his attempts to contact you.

      I hope someone else will chime in on how to get around using this place as a reference at all or alternatives and what sort of resources are available to you. Do you live in the US?

      I’m sorry this is happening! You are not overreacting. If you’re scared to unfriend someone (and I understand why) then something is very, very wrong with that other person. I wish you luck!

      1. Anon For This*

        The filming was done in a setting where it would be normal to do so. The weird part was that he showed up in a company t-shirt, asked me to have drinks with him, asked me to consider coming back . . . I think it’s the blurring of work/personal lines that’s weird about it. He’s married. It’s not normal for a married person to film an ex-co-worker ostensibly on behalf of the company(?) and ask her to go somewhere else for drinks. I mean especially since he’s older,good friends with my ex-boss’s boss’s boss (who reported directly to the CEO), and we didn’t really talk that much at work. He’s kind of implied that he saw some of the negative stuff I was dealing with there and empathized. But if he’s trying to stand up for me, he sure is going about it in a weird way.

        It’s a big, well known company. I can’t go into detail, but there’s hypothetically a lot to lose here, references aside. I need to be careful. Posting about it here is a bit risky because nothing you do online is truly private. This is sort of a last resort.

        1. Observer*

          You can’t let him hold this over you. You need to be minimally polite – so if you tell him you don’t want to be filmed, for instance, you don’t call him names or start screaming, but that’s it.

          Set some boundaries now, before he’s pushed really hard.

    3. Observer*

      You are not over-reacting. You are UNDER-Reacting.

      Firstly, stop going along with his filming you. Secondly, assuming that he hasn’t managed to film you doing anything compromising, stop worrying about what he might to with what he already has.

      And, block him on Facebook.

    4. Jules the First*

      If you are in the US, contact Victim Connect. In the UK, call the Suzy Lamplough helpline. Both organisations will be able to listen to what you’re going through and connect you with relevant advice and support for dealing with it.

  218. OwlEyes*

    If a company leaves a job opening posted past the date they say they’re accepting applications, and tells people if it’s still posted to apply, should you send in an application?

    For clarification sake, if a posting says applications are being accepted through June 1, but remains posted and able to be submitted after that, do you still throw your hat in the ring? Or wait to see if it opens again in the future. I don’t want to submit something now if it will negatively impact my application or any future opportunities as this is a dream company for me to work for.

    1. Traditional Blond*

      Go ahead and apply, and follow up with an email or phone call after a week or 2 if you hear nothing back.
      If 2 more weeks pass and you still get no response, let it go.
      By all means apply for any role in the future, but only mention the prior application if they ask – you don’t need to offer up that information.

    2. Joe X*

      If the posting is still up, apply. The worst that will happen is they won’t consider your app because it’s after the date, but they won’t hold it against you for future applications.

  219. Broken Android*

    A few days ago a blind job opening was listed on an industry specific job website, to which I cautiously applied, as I felt very capable and experienced for the job. I received an email late last night from the company owner asking if I was available to talk today (Saturday). I recognized his name immediately from industry experience – although we had never met, I knew he was a big deal, and I happily agreed to the interview.

    We spoke this morning. He asked me some general questions, and then some hardcore questions about my former employer, where he had done business, and I was intimately involved with his projects. Specifically, “What do you REALLY think of Mr X and Mr Z? They did me wrong back then. Am I right?” I replied, “Well, it’s common knowledge that X and Y’s tactics and methods are rough”…that’s partly the reason why I’m not there anymore – no illegal activities, but I was let go for inside political reasons. I didn’t put anyone down, I just said it wasn’t my style of management. I also emphasized that I truly learned a lot about the business while I worked there.

    The exploratory call was 20 minutes long, and while I thought the questioning was a little intense, I liked his style and asked the next steps. He said he would follow up this week, and he would also send a Non-Disclosure Agreement. I signed and dated it 2 days from today (the next business day), *just in case* anything I said earlier today could not be held against me. I also assume he wanted a signed NDA because he had told me nothing about his product line yet. So I took this as a good sign. I sent it back, thanked him, and asked for a timeline with a “I hope to speak again” in there.

    Well, wouldn’t you know it, the same exact same job posting was listed again, 2 hours ago. The original posting I answered last week was still active and listed as well. My email software tells me he or someone at his organization viewed my note from earlier today at least 6 times. But I haven’t heard anything from the company yet.

    I know it’s only been a few hours, but the second posting is eating me alive. Was it intentional or accidental? Did I screw up my chances by future dating the NDA, or did I dodge a bullet? I’m happy to write the interview and the job off, if need be, but I’d love to hear back from him. And anyone’s thoughts.

  220. DTL (formerly MT)*

    I HAVE A JOOOOB
    It’s not as though it’s my first job, but it’s my first salaried job in my chosen career, and I have been bumbling around all day with a massive permanent smile on my face.

    Now, as they say, “the real work” begins.

  221. desert-witch*

    Just venting – I talked to my supervisor about an issue that happened w/ a coworker and he told the problem employee that it was me who turned him in. Boss apparently played it off as “You have to be careful commenting on people’s apperances around desert-witch because it makes her uncomfortable” instead of the actual issue which was him leering, breathing heavy and grunting behind me, and making sexual comments at a young woman bending down to get something out of the trunk of her car (which was one of many things he’s done, seriously I could write a whole novel). Co-worker confronted me with it this morning and I was so shocked and pissed.

    1. Observer*

      If you are in the US and have a halfway competent HR department, PLEASE talk to them.

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