open thread – July 14-15, 2017

by Alison Green on July 14, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. edj3*

    Help!
    I have a new team, and most of them are heavy smokers. Their lungs, their business except they REEK of smoke. I have something very similar to asthma, and being close to them in their weekly one-on-one meetings is hard. I end up sitting across the room to help mitigate the smell.

    If you are a smoker, would you want me let you know it’s nothing personal that I don’t sit closer? Or would it be better to continue on with politely ignoring the situation?

    1. Bona fide*

      This is probably not a helpful response, but I’m okay with smokers being told that their smoke bothers people. I get how addiction works and all, but it affects everyone around you when you smoke that vile stuff.

      OK, now hopefully someone will give you a more helpful response that won’t immediately alienate your team. XD

    2. Saviour Self*

      Also probably unhelpful, but I would have to change jobs. Being around someone soon after they’ve smoked makes me physically ill.

    3. It happens*

      I wonder if they would consider it rude if you supplied febreze and asked them to use it before meeting with them. Explaining that the smoke affects not only your ability to breathe, but your ability to sit near them. Not judgy- just matter of fact- I don’t want to yell across the room at you.

      1. Trix*

        I’d be happy to try suggestions, but personally, I wouldn’t be able to do Febreze. I know it’s supposed to remove smells, not add to them, but to me, it’s just like adding perfume to cover a smell. Now there are just two strong smells that somehow are way worse than either on their own.

        But it could still be worth mentioning, as an option. Just might depend on this particular group of people.

        1. edj3*

          Yeah, I agree with you, Trix. I go scentless with all my own products. Putting extra stuff in the air only increases my lung issues.

        2. Liz2*

          Agreed, that just adds more chemicals and makes a worse mixed smell.
          I think it’s utterly reasonable to ASK if your people could not smoke for a half hour before the meeting.

          On the other hand- are you sure you can’t just make these meetings phone conferences most of the time?

          1. Artemesia*

            There was a reason people had ‘smoking jackets’ back in the day. If these people would put on a jacket or shirt over their clothes when they go out to smoke that could be removed when they came back it would help a lot. I am not quite sure how to make that happen, but if the smoke triggers the OP’s asthma that could be a suggestion to consider. Maybe have a supply of shirts smokers could put on over their clothes.

            1. DeLurkee*

              :O
              I never knew what the purpose of a “smoking jacket” was! Thank you for that revelation, that’s so cool! Not the jacket, the finally understanding something :D

        3. BritCred*

          Same here, I have more luck with Neutradol though! (No smell but does seem to remove the original one).

        4. Jen A.*

          If you wanted to go scentless, use a spray bottle filled with vodka. The alcohol kills the odor without the perfume lingering on top. We used this method to clean dry-clean only costumes when I did theater in college.

          1. Lemon Zinger*

            I was going to suggest this! Vodka is great for killing terrible smells. I imagine it would work with cigarette scent.

            1. Snork Maiden*

              Next week, from a different person at the same workplace: “Dear Alison. I’m not really sure where to start, but my coworkers are keeping a spray bottle of vodka at work and douse each other before meetings.”

          3. Elizabeth West*

            Yeah, I heard about dancers doing this and I tried it for my skating costumes when we had several performances in a weekend. It actually does kinda work.

            You do need to give it a moment, so maybe the smokers would agree to refrain right before the meeting. Smoke a little earlier, spray, and then go. They should not forget their hair, either–that holds a lot of smoke odor.

          4. Foreign Octupus*

            I am learning so much on this thread already. First, the actual purpose of a smoking jacket, and now vodka kills smells. I’m glad I tuned in this week!

        5. It happens*

          Sorry, maybe they don’t make it any more but I still have a bottle of the old school ‘allergen reducing’ unscented febreze. I had to use it on my hair at night when living in a country with lots of smoking (shower in the morning…)

        6. Jadelyn*

          I’d rather smell smoke than Febreze – the chemical tang of Febreze smells gives me a headache. I use Citrus Magic lime oil spray for an air freshener, it works better and without the awful chemical smell.

      2. Temperance*

        As an asthmatic, that actually just makes it worse. You’re adding chemical smell on top of smoke, which doesn’t actually get covered by the febreze.

      4. Yes I smoke*

        I keep Febreeze in my car and use it after I smoke. I really don’t want to offend or harm anyone and if someone were to explain that they couldn’t sit next to me because of the smell it would hurt but, I would understand. I would prefer that to them suffering in silence.

        It is difficult not to get defensive about this. Those of us who smoke have become so vilified I often have to fight not to list all the good things I bring to the table in a discussion such as this. I have to remind myself that I don’t have to defend myself anymore than anyone else who has an obvious “flaw”. I am happy to find a solution to the problem as long as people weren’t being jerks about it.

        1. Keli*

          Yes. I smoked in college and had a coworker who liked to make comments in my presence about how bad smokers smell…yet she bathed about once a week and never brushed her teeth. She smelled like dirty hair and gum disease. If instead she had said in a kind way that my smoke bothered her asthma, I would have made sure that I didn’t smoke before my shift with her and changed my clothes before work.

        2. edj3*

          I most certainly don’t want my folks to feel defensive or somehow less than because they smoke. Like you, they bring solid skills, knowledge and ability to the table. I want and need them as fully participating team members so it’s very helpful to me to get smokers’ opinions on the best, least hurtful way to see if I can get some relief.

        3. Elizabeth West*

          When I used to smoke, I NEVER did it in the car. The closed space just makes the smell worse. I always did it outside where it could blow away from me, even in the dead of winter. Quite a few people told me they didn’t know I smoked, but of course someone who was sensitive to it undoubtedly would have noticed.

    4. Trix*

      I’d personally be horrified if someone told me that it was affecting them like that, and would be more than willing to mitigate the smell as much as possible. Of course you can come prepared with suggestions if they need them, but there are plenty of things that I would come up with on my own to try, such as:
      Wash my hands before any meetings
      Plan my cigarette breaks so I go after meetings instead of before
      (If weather allows) keep a coat somewhere other than our group’s area, wear it when I smoke, and take it off before heading back to our area
      Pop a mint before any conversations

      I’m aware that this is an issue anyway, and that for any person willing to say something, there are probably plenty that don’t but are still bothered, so I try to do these things anyway. My habit is my habit, so I try to not inflict it on anyone else, but your team may just not have thought of it.

      1. Rebecca*

        You are so thoughtful! We have many smokers in my office. One of them is especially “smokey” and she thinks nothing of puffing away, and then walking right up to someone and talking right in their face. It’s awful, and when told about it, she gets huffy. On top of that, if anyone tries to use any air fresheners, she claims it bothers her sinuses and that she’s sensitive to smells. Well, yes, so are we! I think the office smoking area should be at least 50 yards from the building to give them a good opportunity to air out before returning.

        1. Snark*

          Sensitive to smells, my tuchus. She’s already raking her sinuses over hot coals and has burned out at least half of her sense of smell.

          1. BritCred*

            For reference there are smokers who can have issues with other smells/scents and the clouds of vapor they leave. Same as a dog owner who doesn’t smell their own pets but can smell cats and vice versa.

            Not saying that bitching about it is the right thing to do in that case mind… Its not.

        2. Anon Anon*

          Honestly, most people become nose blind to the things they smell all the time. So it’s perfectly reasonable that they could be nose blind to their cigarette smoke and sensitive to other smells.

          1. KR*

            I smoke a lot of green stuff, and I can barely smell it most of the time. This is due to a combination of being a smoker of it and growing up, my dad smoking it (behind closed doors with plenty of ventilation and not around me, don’t worry). I have to ask a friend if something smells and I’m missing it and I probably go overboard in lingering scent prevention (spray vinegar/water mixture outside, fans, candles, open windows, close AC vents, change and wash clothes) because I know I can’t smell it. Basically, even if you can’t smell it you have to be courteous and aware you are leaving a scent is my point. I think OP can politely ask people to not smoke at least 30 minutes before the meetings as that’s when it tends to be strongest. Perhaps OP can open a window or turn on a fan as well?

      2. Saturnalia*

        My partner smokes occasionally (0-2 cigs / day) and he says he would definitely want to know. He’s super conscientious in general though, to the point of wearing long sleeve shirts all summer so as not to potentially offend anyone by having tattoos (he has a gorgeous sleeve of a biomech squid). So he might be an outlier!

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Ooh off topic but I bet that’s awesome. I saw a huge octopus once that went all round somebody’s calf and I fell in love. With their leg, at least.

          1. Foreign Octupus*

            I thought you meant an actual octopus and was confused for a minute here!

            But (on topic) tell the person OP. I hate the smell of smoke. It makes me feel as though I’m about to choke and throw up and would hate having to work like this. Ask them privately and politely but if it doesn’t improve, I suggest HR.

          1. Snark*

            I’ve had social and workplace contact with smokers my entire life, and I’m allowed to draw conclusions from that without adding a paragraph of disclaimers. Yes, some are conscientious, in my experience most smokers tend to be at best oblivious and at worst actively hostile to the notion that others are bothered by their smoke and are entitled not to be exposed to it.

            Jesus, the sniping and cross-examining around here is getting out of control.

              1. Snark*

                My study on the topic, including a detailed multivariate analysis, will be released shortly in the International Journal of Stuff that Bugs Me, but in the meantime, do keep in mind that we’re all allowed to express opinions.

            3. Ask a Manager* Post author

              I agree that it’s annoying (I find it more annoying than all of you do, I’d bet). Malibu Stacy: Snark is clearly just giving his opinion, not presenting a scientific paper. Everyone: Please move on from this so the conversation stays relevant and constructive. Thanks.

      4. Elizabeth H.*

        Same. If this were the case for me I would never smoke within a few hours of going to a meeting and would wash my hands a lot, same with keeping your coat away. I already do all these things actually because I don’t smoke very much and I don’t really want it to be very obvious that I do. There are lots of smokers who don’t smell strongly of smoke, you just don’t realize them, because, you know, they don’t smell like smoke. Of course someone who is a heavy smoker or who smokes in their home or car will probably smell like smoke all the time, but people who just smoke one or two a day often don’t.

    5. Malibu Stacey*

      Are they asking why you don’t sit closer or giving you any hints with facial expressions or body language that they think it’s odd?

      1. Artemesia*

        People don’t generally show their annoyance to the boss. The fact that ‘no one said anything’ about the money dance at the wedding, the cash bar at the party, or that the boss won’t sit near them when having a conversation is not evidence they are not offended.

        I’d be pre-emptive here and go further to ask if there is some way to mitigate the effect given the asthma.

        1. edj3*

          Artemesia is correct.

          I’m the manager, it’s on me to be available and to grow and develop my team. We’ve gone through a lot of organizational change and some of my folks are running pretty scared. I take those fears seriously and want to ensure they can focus on the work, not on my lungs or my sense of smell. At the same time, I can only use so many mitigating drugs.

          1. Mabel*

            If your team members are scared because of organizational changes, I would think they would find it reassuring to know why you’re doing something they might perceive as odd.

            But since you are their manager, I think you’d have the authority to ask them to schedule their smoke breaks after the meeting because you have asthma (easier shorthand, even though it’s not actually asthma), and the smoking smell makes it hard to breathe.

    6. Inspector Spacetime*

      I would definitely say something. Maybe they change their habits and it gets better, maybe they don’t, but at least now they know why you’re sitting all the way across the room from them.

    7. VinegarMike*

      Smoker here – would totally want to know if I was bothering someone and would feel it was my responsibility to fix it (or understand any action you took to do so)

    8. NoMoreMrFixit*

      I’m allergic to tobacco and found that politely explaining to folks that I can’t go near them when they’ve just finished having a puff was fine. No judging or criticizing their choice, just explained I have a medical reason for keeping certain folks a few meters away.

      1. Anony*

        I have asthma and found the same thing to be true. I just let them know that cigarette smoke aggravates my asthma and they make sure not to smoke near me and not get too close right after smoking.

    9. LNZ*

      Could have your meetings in an open air place, like a patio? Or schedule the meetings before their smoke break so the smell isnt as strong. Either way I’d tell them about the medical issue and see if they have any ideas. It’s not like you’re asking them to stop smoking,

    10. Coldbrewinacup*

      As a former smoker AND as someone with asthma, I would advise you as gently as possible explain the situation. There’s a way to handle it that hurts no feelings or offends anyone, and that’s to be honest. Smokers know many people are affected, but really may not understand just how badly until they’re told. I had no idea about the smell until I quit.

    11. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’m not a smoker, but I can’t imagine reasonable adults would be offended if you politely and non-judgmentally told them you’re having a physical reaction to the smoke on their clothing. I had a manager who was sensitive to many perfumed lotions, and I’d rather be told than wonder.

    12. edj3*

      Thanks, all, for the advice. I will talk gently/privately with the smokers and ask if they’d mind postponing smoke breaks until after our 1:1s.

    13. Anna*

      What about one of those HEPA filter air purifiers. They have filters that trap smells and particles rather than chemicals that mask them. You can get varying levels of filters from just dust to near hospital grade HEPA. If the meeting is in your office you shouldn’t have to explain anything. They also can be used for white noise, which would be good for confidentiality.

      1. RVA Cat*

        I was just coming here to say that. It could also be a reasonable accommodation for your asthma.

    14. This Daydreamer*

      If I. Naturally I read this right after reading the comments on “my office smells like a corpse”. I think I’m going to have a late lunch today.

    15. Sandra wishes you a heavenly day*

      When I smoked, I always preferred to know. I tried to be conscious of the smell and mitigate it and would understand if someone told me they needed to be away from it. The part where I would be upset is when it’s said in the tone of “YOUSATANICBABYKILLER YOUR CLOTHES SMELL GET AWAY FROM ME.” I am not every smoker, of course.

    16. Formica Dinette*

      I’m a former smoker. although I apparently did a good job of mitigating the odor because people were often surprised when they found out I smoked. Anywho, back when I smoked I would have wanted you to say something. I would have thought it was weird that you were sitting across the room, and the smell aggravating your condition would have made sense. Please say something that sounds non-judgmental, though, or you risk doing more harm than good.

    17. Diluted_Tortoise_Shell*

      I would invest in a air filter for the area they sit, honestly they will probably appreciate it too. I used an air filter in my closet for a few days to get rid of that heavy smoked smell from my deceased mother’s clothing and it worked great!

      Also maybe invest in a filter for your office too if that is the meeting space?

      Other than that I have found I have the same issues with being near smokers – it’s tough. I agree talking to them with some basic suggestions will help too like (try to smoke after the meeting vs right before, etc).

    18. Courtney W*

      Well at my old job, when my supervisor was coming back from a smoke break he would get about 20 feet away from me before I would tell him to get away before I had an asthma attack or threw up on him (I was pregnant at the time). Based on the comments here that is apparently considered unprofessional in most places of work. Can’t imagine why…

      But in a group of new people I think I would just say to them, “This is kind of awkward, but I’m fairly sensitive to cigarette smoke and have been having a tough time in our meetings lately because of it lingering. Is there any way the smokers here could do me a favor and just not smoke right before the meeting if anyone is, or something like that? I’d really appreciate it.” If you frame it nicely, the large majority of people aren’t going to be offended by that.

      1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

        My boss figured out I was pregnant when I was only 8 weeks along because he called me in for a 1:1 directly after a smoke break and I threw up in his trash can. His eyes bugged out and he declared that he knew exactly what that meant, he has daughters, and he is certainly not going to ask for any sort of information or comment until I said something on my own, but he would be wiser with his smoke breaks now.

  2. AnonCareerChange*

    This is inspired by the post a few weeks ago. I’m not sure where to go in my career. I’m a web and graphic designer, but I enjoy the graphic design part a lot more than the web. I have a BA in web and and MS in web usability. I really only majored in web to be more marketable, and while I’m not BAD at it, it’s changed a lot in the last 5-10 years.

    I love, love, love, talking to people. Helping people. Giving advice. I’m great with detail planning…like if I’m planning a trip or something, I like to write it all out and plan. I’m not very organized or motivated without a deadline, however. Freelance is out for that reason.

    I’m extremely bored at my job. I have little to no work, and I definitely work 1000 times better under pressure (but that was what my last job was and it stressed me out all day every day). I’m not very good at marketing strategy, but I am very tactical and when someone gives me something to do, I do it very quickly. My problem now is that I’m finding my job to be so boring and isolating, and I end up getting away from my desk to go chat with coworkers. If I didn’t do that, I would barely talk to anyone.

    I don’t mind being at an office, but I do mind being chained to my desk. I like rules, I follow rules and for that reason I’ve enjoyed being the “Brand Police/Brand Advocate” at my current job with standards and color requirements and w/e.

    I’m young and I don’t have kids yet, so I can handle a career change if need be. I like the creative elements of my job, but I am definitely more sociable and problem-solvy/advice-givy than anything. I’ve entertained ideas of HR, Community Management, Customer Service, or IT Helpdesk simply because it feels good for me to help people. Any ideas on what kinds of jobs/careers I should look at?

      1. AnonCareerChange*

        I think I would like that. The only thing I’d be concerned with is how the career prospect looks with all these online options now. :/

        1. Grits McGee*

          I have a few friends that have worked in successful travel agencies. Their particular company focused on boutique travel packages- fancy pants family reunions, group tours, etc.

        2. nonymous*

          Yeah, I think everyone understands that if you know what you want, online will likely give the best prices. What folks want from an agent is the person who makes the zillion decisions and handles the details to organized the full vacation and the local experience to make sure the vendors are value for dollar. When groups are involved, I would expect the agent to deal with personalities and fill in for poor planning on my part. Basically they’re paying you to do the crappy stuff so they don’t have to.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Have you thought about becoming an Executive Assistant? It’s highly varied, usually fast-paced work, with lots of time spent connecting with and helping solve problems for other folks.

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        I am not the OP of this question, but I have often had the same thought! In another world, where I could go back and plan a different career than the one I have, I think I would like being an EA for all those same reasons.

    3. Anon 4 Dis*

      When we set up our new website we went with a company that had reps come out and show us websites to see what we liked, do workshops, and worked with us on how to edit the websites and customize them for us. The company was Aha Consulting – something like that?

      1. AnonCareerChange*

        I could see this, too. I’ve been in meetings where we have consultants do that. It might be a little more traveling than I would want to do, but I’d have to investigate, thanks!

        1. MJH*

          Look into an org like Salesforce. If you can learn the system (I’m sure you can), you can be one of the people who works with clients to set up what they need.

      1. AnonCareerChange*

        I’m not sure if I really know the difference between that and a trainer. Are they similar?

        1. Machiamellie*

          Instructional design creates online training courses, including the graphics, logos, etc. Doesn’t present the actual training to students.

          1. N.J.*

            My spouse is an instructional designer. The PPs web skills would be extremely useful for instructional design in an online learning environment, but many places will not hire you if you don’t have a masters degree in instructional design or st least instructional technology, because of the heavy foundation of educational and teaching theory. If the OP is willing to pursue additional schooling thus could be s good niche.

        2. NaoNao*

          I’m an instructional designer and we are very different than the trainer :)
          We do:
          Graphic design
          Video production
          Curriculum design from top to bottom (all the materials, including web, video, printed, m-learning, etc)
          Train the trainer workshops if needed
          Attend training and take notes on reactions, problems, etc
          Web design and coding as needed
          Research
          Technical Writing
          Presentations
          Data mining and manipulation (ie: how many people took this class, how successful was it, ROI)
          Constant client and Subject Matter Expert interaction

          Trainers have a very discreet job description in that they only train. ID’s do a LOT more. They make the materials trainers use.

          1. edj3*

            And on my team, we do both–develop all the training and then deliver the classroom-based portion/facilitate any self-paced modules.

    5. Matilda Jefferies*

      You might enjoy records management – helping companies organize the business records they create. It has all the things you mention above, including talking to people and giving advice, creating and enforcing standards, and a good balance of creativity and need to focus on details.

      Wikipedia has a good page if you’re not familiar with the basics, and I’m happy to answer any questions if you have them!

      1. AnonCareerChange*

        I think our Six Sigma department at my current job covers this. It’s basically documenting processes and creating a library/safe source for everything, right?

        1. Matilda Jefferies*

          That’s part of it, but there’s a lot more to it than that. It starts with the idea of identifying what is a record (processes, certainly, but there are also lots of records that don’t come from defined processes), then figuring out what needs to be kept, by whom, and for how long.

          It requires knowledge of legislation and standards around recordkeeping, the ability to create new standards where none exist for your organization, and tons of people skills. A good records manager can speak the language of everyone in the organization, from the receptionist to the finance team to the C-suite, to explain why they should take time out of their busy days to listen to you.

    6. Cassandra*

      Project management, usability/UX work (which will absolutely play to your current strengths), and social-media management would be my three off-the-cuff suggestions.

      1. Saturnalia*

        I will throw the weight of a dozen suns behind usability testing for you. It was sooo not for me as a focus, but you have to schedule participants, design studies, plan travel for yourself or participants (off site or onsite studies), and basically adapt to whatever random issues come up in the process.

        1. AnonCareerChange*

          Hmm, you’re right. I should probably look into this more. I did enjoy the work when I was in grad school….and that might be flexible enough and different enough on a day to day basis that would engage me.

          1. Saturnalia*

            So I work in tech, but I’m sure there are physical product usability research gigs too. It is (my perspective) super trendy in tech rn to hire or contract some usability research – if you have a website, you’re only getting so much out of your web analytics (the wisdom goes); you need to talk to users to understand *why* you’re seeing that huge drop out of the registration flow in your stats. Some of it’s optimization like that, and some of it is to help blue sky the next big feature/redesign, using research along the way to ensure you’re on the right track and can throw out mistakes before they end up costing a ton.

            In my experience, bigger brands are more likely to keep an in house user research department. Across many sectors, if there’s a website, there’s someone handing out $20 Amazon gift cards to random people in exchange for their opinions.

            Some folks go from web development to user research, some from user experience design, some from product management, some from upper ranks of customer/community/social media support. Some from anthropology :-)

    7. Rookie Manager*

      I wonder if the same job in a different environment would be change enough for you? This week I have worked A LOT with my charity’s graphic designer. He’s created me a new logo for my section, posters,leaflets etc and they are great. However we have also met face to face, had phone calls and emails to help him understand my problem and then fix it. Somewhere more dynamic with different sub-brands etc might use your skills/degrees and give you people time? Third sector may also help you feel like you are helping the wider community.

    8. Blue_eyes*

      I agree with Victoria about Executive Assistant.

      Another idea, have you considered event planning? Helping people plan events and taking care of the all details in an organized way seems like a good fit for you. Plus there’s a very concrete deadline for the work to be done! You would have some office type work but would also get to meet with clients, visit venues and vendors, etc.

    9. designbot*

      You sound like a good candidate for design research. You get to influence design still and your background will be an asset, but you get to really dive deep into people. How they use things, how they make choices, the rhythms of their lives.

    10. Pwyll*

      You might look at some of the in-house design shops at media companies (newspapers, TV, digital, etc.). When I worked in advertising, we had in-house artists who would facilitate art creation between our ad sales team and our dedicated graphic artists. The facilitators were generally artists themselves, but were more about helping to come up with ideas to meet what the clients were envisioning or help salespeople come up with good mockups for a pitch. It was a neat gig (I did market research, so we’d have daily meetings to say that research shows x%, and the art facilitator would come up with wireframes on how to display that graphically).

    11. MissDisplaced*

      “I love, love, love, talking to people. Helping people. Giving advice.”

      OK, so why can’t you do this as a graphic designer?
      I am also a graphic designer, but more design than web/coding. Graphic designers need to be able to talk to businesses and HELP them with their marketing needs. Could it be you are just in the wrong job, but not the wrong career?

      There are many alternatives and offshoots to your field. After working professionally for many years in graphic design, I went back to school for communications. This gave me a broader reach for jobs I was more interested in, as well opportunities for advancement. But as a graphic/web designer you may already have the skills to move into something like a marketing communications or a digital marketing role (or could do so with a more minimal education investment than a complete career change anyway).
      You might also think about a side-step into advertising if you enjoy the customer-facing side of the creative business. I’ve worked with a number of agencies, and the account managers do just that… help businesses solve problems. I’m not sure how difficult a switch that might be, but your background in the creative/technical part should be helpful if you choose to move into the business side.

      1. AnonCareerChange*

        Could it be you are just in the wrong job, but not the wrong career?

        You might be right. I think I’m struggling because I like my company, but I don’t think that long-term this is ever going to work. I’m too bored and ignored here.

        1. Formica Dinette*

          I agree that right career, wrong job is a strong possibility. I know several graphic designers and they are a lot like how you describe yourself. In particular, I’m thinking of one friend who works in A/E/C. They mainly work on proposals for multi-million/billion-dollar projects, so there is a lot of planning and detail with both short-term and long-term deadlines. Big proposals have lots of collaborators, so they regularly work with a variety of people. There’s also a stream of non-proposal work like general branding stuff.

          Usability testing/UX research as was mentioned above also sounds like a good fit.

    12. Lindrine*

      There is a huge part of interviewing that goes with user experience and customer experience. Check out CPXA (https://www.cxpa.org/home) UX and project management are two areas I really enjoy, and I come from a similar background to yours.

    13. Dankar*

      There’s a company called Terra Dotta that designs sites for study abroad and international student support departments. They have teams to man support portals, teams to train users in how to use the sites, teams to coordinate with and implement the sites with the university’s IT department, etc.

      They were hiring not that long ago, and might be worth a look at.

    14. NDR*

      How about a production company for large events? It requires tons of planning and lists, lets you be out in different places, and often requires some design work for signage, slides, websites, etc. If you can help clients find or make great technology solutions for their conferences and don’t mind lots of explanation and education, you would be well-loved.

      1. MissDisplaced*

        That’s a good one too! As I’ve moved in to “marketing” I’ve done some event planning and support. It CAN be quite graphic intense making and/or ordering things.

    15. Snork Maiden*

      Hi, did I write this? We are the same. I also do freelance and I find that I do quite well on my own (I set fake deadlines, and work steadily with breaks at home, whereas at day design job I am always bored and online.) The key for me is having a social/physical aspect to work. If I’m going to be in an isolated cubicle, I have to be standing or have a foot board to fidget, that sort of thing. Or I have Tweetdeck open throughout the day and dip in and out for chat while I’m figuring out a layout. But this is all short term work advice. For long term career stuff – I’m reading what the other commenters have to say. Anyways, high five!

    16. AshK434*

      Have you thought about becoming a UX Researcher? It would involve a lot of design, conducting focus groups and dealing with people, and some project management.

    17. longtime reader infrequent commenter*

      You sound so much like me and my story it’s kind of uncanny. Without launching into a huge story and writing a book, I’ll just give you this advice — if you’re stuck on *what* you want to do, maybe focus on *where* you want to be. I studied what I love (graphic design, so in essence, problem solving/creativity/helping people), but I realized I need objective work if I’m going to be at a desk 40 hrs a week. And I’ve grown up around aviation and I love airplanes. So I embraced the connections I have, and I ended up working at an airline, and I could NOT be happier. Why? Because instead of looking for what I wanted to do, I looked for the industry I wanted to be in. Maybe looking at it that way will help? You might still end up doing the job you’re doing now, or you may end up doing what I did and move into a completely different career path (although I use the skills I learned from my design training every day), but it’s something to think about.

  3. Lipsy Magoo*

    So I’m really curious…

    I have worked as an EA (Executive Assistant) for approximately 20 years. I used to work in New York where I was usually in a ‘right arm’ kind of role, where the managers I worked with best relied on me completely, trusted me to perform high level tasks and kept me in the loop in every way possible.

    I left NY, tried my hand at a small business venture, and came back to office work a few years ago in Philadelphia given it’s the closest large city to where I live now. But I am finding that here, in more than one role, EAs are seen more as secretaries and I’m having trouble finding the same type of role, with more than scheduling and ordering catering.

    Could this be a regional thing? Or has the work environment changed so much now that people don’t need an assistant in the same way? I’m not sure if I just haevn’t been not doing a good job finding the best fit for myself or if things have changed and I need to lower my expectations on the kind of role I will find. I struggle with the fact that most jobs now require a degree I do not have. I find I don’t qualify for the roles I’m used to thriving in, where you’re an EA but you also do some office management work, you work closely with HR and Finance, etc., with more responsibilities but I find when I discuss doing more with people in my company they look at me like I’m speaking another language.

    Interestingly enough managers are asked to complete tasks they don’t have the skills for, so I try and help them when I can and they are amazed… maybe I’m just in the wrong place?

    Thanks in advance, I’m really curious, I feel like I’m missing something.

    1. LCL*

      The kind of work you did as an EA is still done by EAs in my job. That is a government job, in the left coast of the US, so not sure how helpful that is. But it is well known here that the EAs are the powers behind the throne and you don’t make them mad. They are the Drumknotts to the Vetinaris of the corporate world. (Hey it’s Friday I can use silly literary references on open thread.)

    2. Saviour Self*

      It is probably more a function of the size of the company. That, or you might grow into the more right-arm role as you become closer with the executive(s) you are supporting. That sort of thing doesn’t often happen immediately. Sometimes, you have to manage up and train your executive to let you have that role.

      1. LizzE*

        Agreed with this and I wanted to elaborate on your latter point: At my org, I am one of 6 EAs that support 6 out of the 7 department heads; the roles/functions vary greatly due to our bosses having different ideas of how an EA should support an executive. The CEO, the head of the program department and my department head/boss (marketing) treat us like right arms. However, the head of HR and head of finance see this role as doing clerical/grunt work on their behalf. The head of fundraising basically lets his EA be the department admin and probably uses her less than some of his directors do.

        And to add, my predecessor did more clerical work and was not as close with my boss as I was. She also did not show initiative in getting higher level work.

    3. Temperance*

      I’m in Philly, and EA is sort of more of the “secretary to the highest ranking people” role here. You might be selling yourself short by looking for EA work.

    4. Lily in NYC*

      I think you are correct even though I’m sure there are lots of exceptions. I thought about moving to another city a few years ago and I am so glad that I asked very detailed questions about job duties, because most of the EA jobs were much more administrative than I’m used to. I’m accustomed to EAs doing project work or managing a high-level executive’s life, but these jobs were much more clerical in nature. I felt like I had already paid my dues doing that sort of work and ended up staying in NYC. In my experience, there are a few cities where you can get EA jobs similar to those in NY – Washington DC, San Francisco, and to a lesser extent, Los Angeles and Denver.
      I think if I had to move and look for a new EA job, I would try to find the fanciest law firms in the area and see if I could get a legal assistant job. Oh, or in health care. But those don’t tend to pay very well.

      1. BPT*

        There may be a few places in DC that still see Executive Assistants as more high level roles, but in my experience it’s basically synonymous with a secretarial assistant these days. Like it’s literally the “assistant for the executive.” That doesn’t mean their work isn’t difficult or it’s looked down on – I’ve been an EA and I’ve worked with many EAs in the past in DC, but in my experience they mostly do scheduling, administrative work, and some office manager type of work. It’s not really a role in general where you’re the executives “right hand man” and make high level decisions.

        Maybe at a few very very big companies it’s different, but most places I’ve seen it’s turned into a scheduling/making sure the Exec is prepared position.

    5. PhillyEA*

      EA in Philly for five years! It really depends on the industry I find and they are big into longevity, they take a LONG time to trust someone with project stuff because I think most EAs have come from the old school secretary world. Keep throwing yourself into it and pushing for more- that’s what I do at least. Sometimes I’m baffled at them not using all my skills, but then I’ll have a few tight deadline days and remember it’s nice to be flexible in general.

    6. Pwyll*

      I agree it really varies by company. You may want to try looking for “Chief of Staff” or “Executive Associate” roles, as it seems that some companies have started referring to their high-functioning EA’s as that.

      1. zora*

        I was going to say this, have you thought about looking at different job titles? Chief of Staff I’ve heard, also Operations positions. We have a position called “Director of Operations” which seems to have a similar job description to the kind of EA you are talking about. At another workplace it was the “Manager of Administration and Operations”, who supervised all admins across the company as well as being part of the finance team and managing all of the office locations, very much more of a right arm to the Executive team.

        I’m thinking you might even look at more of a step up, to something called Manager or Director, since you have been part of so much high-level stuff in the past, aren’t there a lot of things you could handle yourself now? Think about stretching yourself a little! ;o)

      2. Managing to get by*

        My organization was just acquired earlier this year by a larger one. At the old organization, we had EAs and Admins. Managers and Directors had Admins and VPs had EAs. The Admin job was basically secretarial, the EAs were a cross between secretarial and what you described as your jobs in NY. Only Executive VPs had a “Chief of Staff” in addition to an admin.

        In the new organization, VPs get an EA, which is more secretarial but a little higher level work than an admin. The EA coordinates calendars, orders food for luncheons and also helps in the logistical side of planning projects and larger meetings. Our VP’s EA has been pretty helpful to me in getting things moved along in some of my projects.

        All VPs also get an “Executive Consultant”. This is an entirely internal role but performs much higher-level functions than a admin and seems to be at the same level inside the organization as a Senior Consultant (client facing) or lower-level Manager. They’ll even represent the VP on workgroups and committees, giving input and doing the work and reporting back, similar to what I and other managers do when we are representing our Line of Business in cross-functional work teams. This is probably the type of job you are looking for.

        Some departments call this an Executive Consultant, some call it a Chief of Staff, look for those types of postings.

    7. EA*

      In Boston it sort of depends. Both sets exist. If you job search, I would try and say you are looking to be a business partner with your executive, and give specific examples. You can be pretty up front about what you are looking for.

    8. Marisol*

      Are you working with any recruiters? If not I would pose this question to them. I’m an EA in Los Angeles with about 10 years of experience and mostly what I’ve done over that time is the secretarial stuff you’ve mentioned, not the meaty decision-making-type stuff you are looking to do. However, my impression is that there is a wide range of job duties depending on the field and on the company. If I wanted to have more responsibility in my role, I would look at going to a smaller firm, where there is less specialization and fewer people have to wear more hats, and I would try to concentrate my work experience within a single industry in order to deepen my knowledge and capitalize on it, rather than focusing on the general admin competencies that can be universally applied to various fields. I would also definitely get in touch with a couple high-caliber recruiters to get the lay of the land. It may be that what you want is less common, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible to get, and I think a recruiter would have the most insight here. As we sit here typing, there is probably an executive somewhere in Philly who is saying, “I get great secretarial candidates, but what I really want is someone with the the judgement to be my right arm!” Just because they are harder to find doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

    9. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      This is a narrow answer, but I work in DC at a media/startup-y company, and I am really surprised at how self-sufficient the executives of my company are. Like, we’re big (800 employees and tons of part-time, contract, etc others), and there’s maaaybe 2 actual assistants in the whole organization. The CEO doesn’t have one, and sets his own meetings, manages his calendar, etc. I theoretically do some assistant stuff for my EIC, but he almost never actually has me do anything. I think this is common in startup-type jobs, especially since the tech even 5 years ago was way different… so many of those tasks are just easier now than they’ve ever been.

      1. BPT*

        This is becoming more and more true throughout DC. I used to work at a lobbying firm, started out as an assistant who managed Directors calendars, and then moved up to substantive policy roles. Once I moved out of being an assistant, they didn’t really replace that part of my role. It’s gotten to the point where people can handle their own schedules easily now. It’s always on your phone and it’s easier to do it yourself than contact an assistant to do it.

    10. Formica Dinette*

      I’m in Seattle. I used to be an EA and things have changed here. There are fewer EA and general administrative roles available because all employees are generally expected to do that kind of work themselves (hence the amazement you’ve seen.) The high-level positions like you used to hold require a degree.

    11. EA POLITICS*

      Ea in government here. I’m the ea to politicians, so they change every few years (I currently have 6) and they are the highest ranking in my organization. In my experience it depends very much on the person. There have been some that I organize their life and some that do a lot on their own. I’ve found this to be true when I did the same thing in private law firms.

    12. Astor*

      I think with that much experience, you should definitely be applying to jobs that specify a degree. That is, for a job posting that says they “require a degree in x and y years of experience”, you should apply as if they said “require a degree in x and y years of experience. Equivalent combinations of education and experience may be considered.” This is especially true if they say “degree in finance or related fields”. Continue to skip the ones that say “license required”.

      It won’t always work, and if you’re not seeing any job postings that are for the roles you’re used to it won’t help at all. But don’t take yourself out of the running if you’re seeing jobs (including those with slightly different titles) that you’d normally apply for but that require a degree.

      Good luck!

    13. Michael Carmichael*

      I think this is going to depend heavily on the individual you support – at least in my workplace, it seems to vary based on the personalities involved. There doesn’t seem to be a set standard, but I don’t work in the corporate world (in higher ed).

  4. Pylon*

    I would love to hear from folks in research or academia. I’m about to start the last year of my PhD fellowship (social science). As part of my fellowship, I currently work as a research assistant for a grant. After this next year, I won’t have any university funding, so the ideal thing would be to get a full-time job and finish my dissertation part-time (it’s normal here). I would like to work for research grants, as a project manager or research coordinator or a similar role. With that in mind, in this last year of my fellowship, I would like to take on responsibilities that can help me become a competitive candidate for that kind of position. Do you have any advice on the kinds of things I should do/learn as a research assistant to achieve this goal? In other words, what kind of experience and achievements would you want your project manager or research coordinator to have? (I already have a lot of experience as a research assistant on grants involving human subjects but I’m sure other candidates would as well.)

    1. Not in US*

      Experience with budgets and financials is important. At lot of PIs just aren’t great at that and the PM often fills that role. The last PM I worked with at my institution was amazing with Finances (she didn’t love it but she was good) and really understood intermediate excel.

      1. fposte*

        Yup. A friend of mine will always have a job because she is the spreadsheet whisperer.

        While different institutions handle this differently, at mine knowing IRB practice inside and out, developing contacts there, and being able to draft approval requests on a dime would be hugely valuable.

      3. Pylon*

        Thank you! This is definitely something I need more experience in, and I should be able to talk to my advisor about that.

    2. Program Manager*

      Budgets and finances, data analysis (both qualitative and quantitative), grant writing, and dissemination experience (manuscripts, posters, oral presentations). I look for project coordinators who can be jack-of-all-trades and contribute to the project from start to finish. It also helps if they’re interested in either the process of research or the specific research topic, because it means that they won’t flake out on some of the more mindless but necessary tasks.

      1. Pylon*

        Thank you! I have definitely worn a lot of different hats in my RA experience, and I can see that adding financials and grant writing is going to be very important for this career goal.

    3. Artemesia*

      I hired an Army Sgt. to manage my complex grant which involved data collection in 15 states. In addition to budget management and data management skills, you want to demonstrate extreme attention to detail and organization. Data management is different from data analysis; the whole project falters if the data is not good, so knowing how to make sure the data is properly entered into the system and trouble shooting data issues, knowing how to prepare a code book that allows easy analysis of the data etc are critical skills. And if you have done some of that it is a case for attention to detail. So in your RA role, I’d be looking for experience in data management.

    4. OtterB*

      Seconding the suggestions about IRB and data management skills. Also, not a specific skill, but work on paying attention to the whole project life cycle – as a research assistant you often see some pieces but not others, and if I was hiring for a project manager role I’d look for someone who could explain what they had done on a project, but also how their work fit in with the overall effort.

      1. Another bureaucrat*

        Yup, if interviewing you, I would want to know that you have the skills and interest to reach beyond your previous RA role into overseeing the entire effort–and that you knew that there was an entire effort, with lots of important work, beyond the RA role! In my role, I’ve had to do a lot of facilitating and coordinating (aka, herding cats and being a friendly nag) across our big team.

    5. Another bureaucrat*

      I’m a PM on a program grant in academic. While you’re still on your current grant, can you help with any of the reporting? Maybe not compile the final report to the funder, but compile or draft initial reports? Or help with a nice annual report-type doc to share your work with a broader audience? Those were the skills that helped me move from PR/Communications into grant management (that and the ability to work across disciplines and healthcare settings with a big team).

      If you are looking for grants and research coordination in your same field, I think your knowledge of the field/setting/regulations would be beneficial. And if you’re doing research coordinating for human subject work, I think strong familiarity with IRB systems would be a good selling point for your self.

      1. Pylon*

        Thank you for your advice! I will certainly ask my advisor (the PI) if I can contribute to reports.

    6. Anon Research Manager*

      I am a Research Manager and when hiring Research Coordinators I look for people that are EXTREMELY detail oriented. Their are so many details to keep track of with 200+ page protocols to follow, but the integrity of the data and results depends on all of those little details being done correctly. So I want a Research Coordinator that has systems in place to make sure every bullet point is followed accurately and on time either by themselves or the Research Assistants they supervise. Then as mentioned above a good understanding of IRB processes is so helpful. I also would want someone that is good at feasibility analysis of future projects. Can you look at a potential protocol and determine if the science of it is good, does it fit your client population, do you have the staffing and facility requirements, how difficult/easy will subject recruitment be and budget analysis. And if you are working with human subjects, the soft skills of good customer service to those participating in the studies is very important. If possible, see if you can shadow or meet with Research Coordinators to see what a “day in the life” is like for them.

      1. Pylon*

        Thank you! This gives me a lot of helpful information on what I should be working on in the next year. I certainly plan to talk to my current project manager about what a day on the job is like for her. (As a side note, I hadn’t considered that interacting with and supporting participants could be customer service, but it really is in a way – thanks for pointing that out!)

    7. AnonAcademic*

      Is it at all possible to finish your dissertation when you are still on fellowship? I had to work 7 days a week for several months to finish my dissertation while I was still on a teaching fellowship but financially it was worth it to be able to start my postdoc right after my defense. Or, is there any chance of being funded on the grant for a few extra months? Have you exhausted all other internal funding options? My former labmate is on an NRSA that runs out this year (her 5th) but her department chair told her that she has put aside 6th year funding for her because she knows the project just needs more time to be done.

      The reasons I ask is that at least in my field (cog neuro) it’s really really hard to do dissertation work in parallel with other work like being a RA, PM, etc. People do it but I think in the long term it’s more chronically stressful than just banging out the dissertation like I did. It’s common practice in my lab to hire postdocs as research assistants until they finish their PhD but all of them have found it took much longer than expected to go through the defense and revision process. It took me a full year to acclimate to my new job and I was done with my dissertation, I can’t imagine trying to finish writing it while working somewhere new.

      1. Pylon*

        Thanks for the response! It’s almost expected in my field and university to be working full-time while completing the PhD. Knowing all the factors involved, I don’t anticipate it being a problem.

    8. Your Weird Uncle*

      I work at a large university doing grants at the departmental level. Here, we have student project assistants who are hired to work for specific PIs (some work for only 1 PI, some work for a group of PIs doing related work). These guys are really in at every level; whereas I look at the big picture financial stuff (and we have so many grants coming and going that it’s really all I have time to do), the PAs get to know the research in and out. They know the hows and the whys, and they get really great hands-on experience with the financials as well. Maybe there is something similar where you are?

      You could also get to know the electronic requirements of grant submissions. Here, we have dedicated people who do that for PIs, but where you are, you might have PIs who are doing that stuff alone. If you can get your head around submission systems like Fastlane (NSF), Cayuse (NIH), etc., you might find an in somewhere.

      If you’re still interested in working in research after you graduate, don’t be afraid to look outside of your field, too. Engineering and Computer Sciences (where I work) is where the money is at these days, and they might have roles available that your department doesn’t. We hire lots of folks with various backgrounds.

      Also, check out the National Council of University Research Administrators! It might be more on the financial side of things than you’re interested in, but they should have plenty of resources to help clarify where you might want to go in future.

      1. Pylon*

        Thank you! I really appreciate your advice. And I had not considered looking outside of social science, but I can see that many project management/coordination skills are transferable.

  5. Jimbo*

    I’m in a position that is no longer working out for me. I am able to do good work and I have accomplished a great deal. But I am extremely unhappy.

    I will be having an evaluation with my supervisor soon. I’d like to bring up that I am unhappy and the factors making me unhappy are not likely to change. They have to do with inadequate staffing and funding for the project I was hired to do, and the issues that resulted.

    Stuff I don’t plan on sharing but are relevant is managerial oversight for my position being with someone who I’ve been clashing with since day 1. And I’ve been talking to the EAP counselors a lot and seeing a therapist to handle stress, anxiety and depression. This has been continuous for me since month #4 of this job.

    When I finally talk to my boss, I am divided how to steer the discussion:

    Option 1) I am unhappy at the job. What are options to do something about it so I can remain with the organization?

    Option 2) This really isn’t working out for me anymore. What are options for an amicable, mutual parting of ways? Try to strike a transition plan for me to exit gracefully.

    Option 3) Hand in my resignation and give two weeks notice.

    I don’t want to leave them in a lurch. And I have been job-hunting the past few months and interviewing. I just haven’t landed a position yet. I am quite sure I don’t want to stay with the organization anymore. They can’t offer me anything that would make me want to stay longer.

    So I am inclined to steer the discussion towards Option #2. I was wondering what I need to be prepared for in that case. Should I draft a formal letter that states my intention to move on and asks in bullet points about next steps for a proper transition? Should I forego the letter and just say my intentions and have an honest discussion with my boss verbally?

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Can you do a combination of 1 and 2? Just lay our your reality: I’m no longer happy in this work. Here’s why. Can we have an honest conversation about whether there are any adjustments we can make that will address those problems, or whether it makes more sense to put together a plan for me to leave?

    2. straws*

      Do you actually want to stay with the company? If you do, then #1 could be a good start, and you can easily transition into #2 as a part of the discussion.

      1. Jimbo*

        Honestly, I don’t think I want to stay. I am only still there because I have been job hunting and haven’t landed a position yet.

    3. Lipsy Magoo*

      I’m so sorry you’re in this position. Sounds very challenging.

      I think it depends on your style but for me, I would have the discussion before preparing anything. You may be wasting time, based on what is discussed and agreed to. Unless it will help you to be prepared and organize your thoughts, writing a letter out for yourself really, I would take a deep breath, be honest and see where it goes from there.

      Good luck!

    4. Hannah*

      wait until you have a job, and then give your notice. Preparing for a transition is what the notice period is for–you don’t have to give a notice period for the notice period. You can still leave amicably when you don’t declare your intention to leave before you hand in your notice.

      1. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

        +1 on this, unless you are prepared for the possibility you may be unemployed until you find a new job.

      2. Artemesia*

        If you SEE a way to fix this in the current company, go in with this positive plan open to alternatives the boss might see in addition to this. Never have a complaint like this without a positive solution. If the boss can’t fix your problem when you present it, s/he is likely to decide you are the problem and bosses who feel inadequate to address a problem will hurt the person who brings it to them. The obvious solution is to fire you, demote you or be looking to do one or the other. So if you think a move to division A or B will help your problems in Div C — or you think different responsibilities are possible and suggest those, do it. But ‘I am unhappy, you fix it’ is the path to bad things happening.

        If you don’t see any plausible solution then start your job search and don’t suggest you are unhappy until you have the offer you plan to take. Then you give notice and don’t worry about it any more.

        1. Jimbo*

          Unfortunately I don’t see a plausible solution I can offer to this — the basic problem is lack of money, lack of organization and misplaced priorities that has resulted in the project leaders backing themselves into an awkward corner. The fallout of all this is I have been deeply unhappy and it has been affecting my work and interactions with my colleagues. There is no way around giving my honest answers when the conversation comes where they ask “why are you unhappy? Is there anything we can do to make you less unhappy?”
          And you are correct that these types of problems that I am raising makes my boss look bad and likely are making him feel like an inadequate manager of big projects.
          I have been job hunting. I just haven’t landed a position yet.

      3. BRR*

        Another +1. I would not leave without another job lined up. Giving adequate notice is parting amicably (unless your employer is completely unprofessional about it).

      4. Been There, Done That*

        I agree with Hannah. Your situation sounds so much like mine. I made an internal move that I thought would take me where I wanted to go and enable me to make a bigger contribution to the organization and the clients. Literally Day 1 I saw the handwriting on the wall, and in less than 2 months I was miserable. Very toxic environment and people. I’ve tried to make the best of it but there’ve been too many events that point the opposite way. It’s human to want to “unload” about your unhappiness to your boss, but if it won’t fix anything, it will only tip your hand. Don’t tell them you want to leave until you have a job offer in hand.

    5. SansaStark*

      My husband had a conversation like this last year combining #1 and #2. Management really wanted to retain him so they requested that he make a list of the top things he wanted to change/would make his life better and they’d see what they could change. He wrote the list and they addressed the few that they could. He’s been SO much happier and hasn’t talked about quitting since. I’m not saying that yours will be the same way, but this is a conversation that doesn’t necessarily have to be adversarial.

      1. Bea W*

        I had this same conversation with my boss more than once. Unfortunately all of the lists and feedback went unaddressed, and I ultimately chose to leave. The upside is that my boss wasn’t blindsided because we’d already had these conversations, and I felt like I had done all I could to make it work. So while no one was happy with the outcome, it was as pleasant as it could have possibly been under the circumstances.

        1. SansaStark*

          It’s funny because I ultimately also felt like my husband’s company wasn’t really addressing the big issues, but he felt better and the conversation was kind of a pressure-release for both parties, so I guess it kinda worked out in the end. But yeah, I think if you have a reasonably good relationship with your boss, it’s a good conversation to have if you’d previously been pretty happy.

          1. Bea W*

            I’d have felt better if folks were making any effort to address some of the issues. Sometimes knowing you’ve been heard and management is making any kind of visible effort on improvements is enough to keep going.

    6. Jimbo*

      Thanks all for the feedback. I appreciate it. One big aspect of why I want to separate from the job is to preserve my mental health. I’ve been on the job about a year. Since month #4 I have been continuously seeking EAP counseling and seeing a psychologist just to deal with the stress and negative emotions being in this job is triggering in me. It is just a horrible, horrible fit. And it is driving me crazy. Literally. I know this isn’t something you reveal to your boss or colleagues when they ask you why are you so unhappy? But this is the biggest reason. Things are so bad that it is driving me to seek psychological help. It is not normal to feel this way about one’s job.

      1. Windchime*

        If it’s truly this bad, I would start making an immediate exit plan. I was in a job like that last year; in fact, this time last year I was on medical leave because I was so stressed and anxious and having scary, dark thoughts about hurting myself multiple times a day. I should have left that job a year before I did. When my medical leave ended, I was on the verge of accepting a position with my current employer so, against my better judgement, I went back for a few weeks so I could give notice. It was a bad idea.

        I can so relate to what you are saying and I have nothing but compassion and understanding for you. If you have savings and feel comfortable with the possibility of being out of work for awhile, then make your exit now. My therapist told me that my anxiety was a natural reaction to the things that were going on at work; it’s our body’s way of telling us that we are in a bad situation.

        Take care.

      2. Jimbo*

        Thanks very much! This is the type of script that I think I need as a way to guide the conversation. I think this will be very helpful to adapt for my needs!

  6. Sunflower*

    Is anyone on here a PMP?

    My firm has informed me they will pay for me to get a certification and since I’m an event planner, a CMP is the assumed one but I’m not sure I want to stay in event planning. I’ve thought about doing project management or sales but I’m unsure if my experience translates enough to qualify for the PMP. Are there any other certs that might be worth looking into?

    1. peanutbutter*

      I recently got my PMP certification and highly recommend it. My background is also in event planning and I knew I wanted to move away from organizing events, but still using my planning and organization skills. The best part is that I also used my event planning hours to satisfy the certification requirements.

      1. peanutbutter*

        Just following up to my original comment after reviewing the additional comments below. As a part of my 4000 hours of project experience, I was able to use my event planning experience to fulfill the documented project work. Here are the two key things I kept in mind:

        1) Use a template to track your hours. There’s plenty online, some free and some paid. I went with a free excel version that included a character count in the description portion.

        2) Approach the hours as if you were expecting to get audited. For me, that meant making sure I had someone who could vouch for my role in the project, the time frames listed, and can verify the tasks that I completed. For event planning, you can use your manager, a client who paid for it, or someone on the team. I then emailed each person telling them I was applying for the PMP and confirmed if they’d be willing to vouch for me. I also shared with them the information I was entering into the application about the project.

        Yes, the risk could be low for getting audited, but it’s better to have that information up front rather than scramble to get it.

    2. Wheezy Weasel*

      The PMP requires 4,000 hours of documented project work within something like 7 years before you can sit for the exam. Those hours also have to be across all of the different levels of project management (initiate, plan, execute, control and close).

      I’ve got over 10 years in project management related fields (some PM, training, high level helpdesk support and business analyst roles) but have never been able to document these hours well enough to meet the criteria to my satisfaction. I could lie about it, and I suspect others may, because the risk of getting audited is low.

      There is a CAPM that is a step lower that only has a coursework requirement before the exam should be easier to achieve, and that’s what I’m looking to do as a good stepping stone to a PMP.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        I feel your pain about starting at the beginning. I was a lead engineer on projects and project controller, and had the hours back in 2008, but wasn’t looking to get a PMP. I took a non-project job for 6 years, and then moved to a project manager role and started looking at the PMP. My old experience was too old to fit in 7 year window. I may have been able to count some of my non-project job experience (administrative-type projects within the job), but I didn’t want to chance an audit. I decided just to wait it out since the PMP isn’t a huge thing in my company, and I’ll hit the 4,000 hrs-in-3-years requirement in August. Still, I feel like I’ve been working a really long time to just now be eligible.

        1. Girasol*

          At work three of four of us working on PMP were audited. Be sure that you can locate someone to vouch for any time that goes to your total required hours. It can be hard to find your boss from seven years back!

        2. Witty Nickname*

          I was told in my PMP prep class that they audit 10%. I had only officially been a project manager for a year when I did my certification, but had done project management work in my previous positions and was able to count that. I was audited and had no problems passing the audit (I had to get my previous supervisors to sign a copy of what I submitted for that job, agreeing that I had done what I said I had – one of my previous supervisors was in a different city and traveled a lot, so they even let me get someone else I had worked with sign instead, and I just submitted a short note explaining why I had someone else signing it. I also had to get a copy of my college transcripts to verify that I had gotten the degree I had claimed. They took the free copy my college faxed to me, so I didn’t even have to pay for an official transcript).

          Out of the 3 of us at my company that applied around the same time, all 3 were audited, but we all got asked for different things.

    3. Lindrine*

      PMP here as well. You must have specific requirements to sit for the test. If you have a college degree the requirements are a bit lighter. If you think of going that route, there is an excellent UDEMY course that covers everything in all the knowledge areas. There is also the lower level CaMP i think it is called?
      Requirements to sit for PMP:
      Secondary degree (high school diploma, associate’s degree or the global equivalent)
      7,500 hours leading and directing projects
      35 hours of project management education
      -OR-
      Four-year degree
      4,500 hours leading and directing projects
      35 hours of project management education

      1. AnotherAlison*

        Seconding the Udemy course. I obviously haven’t passed the test yet, but I have the Udemy course. I can’t remember how much it was, but for <$200, you can satisfy the 35 education hour requirement. The local community college and a local university extension of my alma mater both offered similar courses for thousands of dollars.

    4. Witty Nickname*

      I have my PMP, but mostly what I’m seeing on job postings these days is Agile/Scrum Master certification. It seems like everyone in my area wants that, even with the PMP.

      1. Here we go again*

        It really depends on the field/industry. Agile/Scrum tends to be better for technology projects or bringing new products to market, but if you are looking to get involved with more capital projects, traditional is still the way to go.

  7. Michael Scarn, CPA*

    Does anyone on here work in HR and have experience with a company that uses those invasive online application systems? I’m asking because I want to know how the information we applicants enter comes through, whether HR reviews that information first before deciding to view the resume, whether I should fill in the job duties boxes or just say “see resume”, etc. Any insight you can provide about how the information entered into these systems is used by HR is helpful!

    1. HR Manager*

      Depends by company. I review all resumes first, but depending on position the HM might want to see them ALL no matter what.

      I would not put “see resume,” makes you look lazy. And most systems let you import your resume and auto-fill.

      1. Michael Scarn, CPA*

        I get what you’re saying about looking lazy, but does it look any less lazy to just copy and paste information from my resume? Or should I be trying to add additional or different information in those fields? Does the hiring manager review the information entered into the online application typically?

        1. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

          Not in HR, but I always copy and paste from my resume for those fields.

          1. Chaordic One*

            I used to be an HR Admin Assistant and I also cut-and-paste the same information that’s in my resume when having those kind of online applications. When I worked at Dysfunctional Teapots, Ltd. people who did this were never penalized for doing so and it never made any difference in deciding who would or would not be interviewed.

        2. JeanB in NC*

          I actually keep a document with a short description of my job duties that I can copy & paste into the boxes. It’s different than the info on my resume, so I don’t worry about duplicating effort.

      2. Liane*

        There are some online systems that auto-populate job history fields (company name, location, dates, duties) from a resume you upload. However, IME, they are very bad at it, unless ALL of the jobs on your resume are one position per company. If you have held multiple positions at the same company, your resume will confuse many systems and it will take more time for you to get all the dates, titles, companies, and duties sorted out than it would to cut & paste them.
        Also, while it is acceptable on a resume to give employment dates as month/year, every ATS I have applied through is programmed to insist on month/day/year or not let you continue.

      1. Saviour Self*

        That’s not really true. I don’t see a problem with putting see resume for a system that doesn’t auto-fill. I encourage it for some people. Why do double the work? But that’s probably why I’ve resisted my company getting an ATS…

        1. Kate*

          “See resume” is doubling the work for whoever’s reviewing your online application. Whether or not the candidate should have to do double the work or the reviewer should depends on the field, and whether the business or the candidate holds the cards.

        2. Shadow*

          Do you at least fill out the questions that aren’t answered by your resume? Like reason for leaving, supervisor name, etc

        3. Jadelyn*

          Well, if there’s a resume and also an application where you have to fill in job duties, *someone* is going to have to do double the work. Either they do double the work by having made their resume, then also copy/pasting pieces of it into the application…or we do double the work by having to look at the application then also go pull up their resume in order to even get an idea of whether or not they’re qualified, which defeats the purpose of the separate application in the first place.

          I mean, I’d rather a system that just allows resume submittal so I can just read the resumes in the first place, but if you’re stuck with a system that requires both, the double work is going to get done somewhere, and when I have a couple dozen positions and a couple dozen submissions for each of those positions to review, I’d rather the candidate do the double work than force me to do it. And if they try to force me to, by putting “see resume”…yeah, I’m gonna translate that as “please delete”, as WTCOH? said.

        4. harryv*

          I’m a hiring manager and I rarely if ever resumes with ‘see resume’ in those fields make it past in house recruiters then to me. If it does make it to me, I am slightly annoyed that I have to download and open your resume just to see your work history.

    3. SQL Coder Cat*

      I’m not in HR, but I was the technical lead in setting up such a system for my employer (a mid-sized private university). In the program we use, you review all the applicant’s responses to the questions, and then decide whether or not to view the uploaded resume. Given that, I’d want to be sure to fill in those boxes with something beyond ‘see resume’ because depending on how many applicants a position has, applicants whose responses to the system questions don’t catch the hiring manager’s attention might not even get their resume viewed!

      2. Michael Scarn, CPA*

        Wow, this is eye-opening. I always thought my resume was the most important thing and I never have taken the online application systems seriously. In fact, I just used one that asked for the names, addresses and phone numbers of 3 people who were unrelated to me and not previous employers. It was weird. I filled the references information in, but did put “see resume” in the duties fields. Now that I know that’s a potential big no-no, I’ll at least copy and paste information from my resume there.

      3. LKW*

        That’s a great point, that it’s in anyone’s best interest to make this as easy on the reviewer as possible.

      4. sometimeswhy*

        This. The first thing I see are the responses from the system we use (which is less invasive than some I’ve seen but can feel a little tedious the first time you fill it out). I’ve grown to sort of like it for applicant screening since it flattens the information and makes it easier to look at the items of initial interest for all candidates side by side by side by side.

        Everything else is an attachment. Everything: resume, cover letter, supplemental questions. It all gets looked at and a kickass resume can definitely make a difference but the first impression an applicant makes on me comes from how they filled out the form.

    4. Kate*

      In my old ATS, when I did a search within the pool of existing candidates (say, “any title: coordinator”), the ATS searched what people put in the application boxes. If I just searched “coordinator,” it would search resumes AND applications. But if I did a more narrow search, it only searched applications. (I tended to do more narrow searches to avoid candidates with “collaborated with coordinator” or such on their resume.)

      It’s a pain, but I always advise filling out the complete online application.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      I just keep a resume document with a short version of my duties for each job. I copy and paste those dudes right in there.
      Today I had one that asked me to put the percentage of my day that duties took up. Gah! I just did it like this:

      70% Phone, customer service
      20% Filing
      10% Other admin duties

      The rest they can see on my resume.

    6. harryv*

      I recently became a manager at a company that uses those application systems. I recommend you always fill out the job duties boxes even if it is copying and pasting for your resume. I just recently hired two FTE through this system so I have good and recent experience. When the in house recruiters pass candidate applications to me, the information that is given to me at the top is the candidates name, address then the work history. I use that to determine if I want to continue reading your profile. If you put ‘see resume’, I get a bit annoyed as I don’t get a picture of your work experience and have to scroll all the way down to see what you selected in the filtering questions where it asks you “How many years of experience do you have doing x, y, z?”.

      I then have to click the next tab, download your resume or open your resume in a pop up window to read it. I’ll be honest with you. By this time, your resume better hit it off the ball park. Otherwise, I won’t as forgiving because I could’ve set the right expectation had you followed instructions earlier.

  8. Cindi Mayweather*

    Hi – was wondering if anyone out there has higher education experience and may be able to help me. I have been in my current job for almost 5 years, and I love the institution and working in a higher ed setting. I like my work, however I would like to move up somehow, and the only way I see moving up in my current department would be into a role I am not terribly interested in (it would most likely be a fundraiser position).
    I would like to take advantage of the tuition remission that employees get for Master’s Degrees, and they have a Higher Ed Administration program that I think would be the best fit since again, I really love the higher ed setting, just not necessarily the opportunities available in my current department. I am wondering if anyone can help steer me in the direction of other roles within the setting – I have done a bit of research but it’s hard to really gauge what these roles might be like from vague descriptions.
    If it helps, I am a bit introverted but do get along well with people, and am happy when I get to be creative. I also love higher ed because I like helping an institution that helps students prepare for the world – definitely something that makes me feel good.
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      The great thing about working in a college is that there are a million different roles within one institution. I used to work in a college career center, where there were career advisers, marketing staff, event planners, IT folks, outreach specialists who networked with employers to bring them to campus, and operations staff. And this was just one department!

      There are lots of roles that are behind the scenes that wouldn’t involve any sort of fundraising or networking, but still impact students’ lives. What work do you like to do? What are your strengths? What kind of role do you think you’d thrive in?

      1. Another bureaucrat*

        Seconded. Another thing to ask in higher ed – do you want to be student-facing? Your statement of being a bit introverted made me think of that. It’s not a problem at all, but it will change what type of positions you look for. I’m in higher ed and recently considered a student-facing role within my college. It would definitely change my day to day (and semester to semester!) responsibilities, and challenge my problem-solving skills and patience. Not a bad thing, but a thing to think about….

        1. Cindi Mayweather*

          You know I’m not sure. I think perhaps student-facing might not be terrible for me, because it seems like (and please correct me if I’m wrong), that that is relatively low stakes compared to asking potential donors for money. Again, I am an introvert, but I do tend to do well with people when I reach out and when I am asked to do so (as a job would do).

          1. Another bureaucrat*

            Sorry to give this answer, but it totally depends on the position. Both involve relationship-building, for sure.

            You could be student-facing dealing with financial aid or tuition bills, which is high-stakes to the student. Or you could be helping them enroll in courses, which could be generally lower stakes.

            The position that I looked at at my institution was a mix — on one hand, I would be contacting students to make sure they’ve registered for courses, etc, which sounds pretty basic. But I would also be their first contact if something was going wrong– if they were about to flunk out, or were having a family crisis and needed to put their studies on hold. Or, god forbid, if there was an issue with plagiarism or student conduct. In that case, I would definitely involve higher-ups right away, so I wouldn’t be alone in dealing with that, but it wouldn’t be low-stakes, necessarily.

            1. Cindi Mayweather*

              Absolutely no worries, I appreciate your answer! And you’re right, of course, like most things, depends on the situation. And your example is very helpful.

          2. gladfe*

            Another thing about working with students is that many of them are very young adults, so it’s pretty common for them to misestimate the importance of things, in both directions. In a lot of student-facing jobs, the actual stakes are pretty low but the rate of student freakouts is pretty high. On the flip side, you can end up having to teach students that some things actually are important (e.g., that paying tuition, showing up to work, or complying with federal regulations are not optional, even if you’re “really slammed this week”). I like working with students despite all that, but it’s something else to consider.

          3. Anxa*

            I’m introverted and student facing and love it. The only major drawback is that in higher ed it sometimes feel like the more closely and directly you work with students on their education, the less you are valued by the school.

    2. fposte*

      There really are too many to name based on your description. What are some of the openings you’re seeing? We might be able to give you more information about those.

    3. Academia Escapee*

      You could work in advisement, faculty affairs, government affairs, the Provost’s office, or academic resources (these were the department titles in the state university I worked at in California – your mileage may vary depending on how your uni is set up). Those are really the types of internal departments that help manage the university as a whole, which sounds like what you’re looking for.

    4. Hannah*

      I think you may benefit from a few “informational interviews.” Can you identify a few roles that exist at your institution that might interest you and reach out to people to have those roles and ask for an informational interview? Those people are probably the best suited to tell you how to find the right path to their kinds of jobs, and probably not hard for you to find right at your workplace. Admissions, academic administration, student services, research administration all be possibilities for you, it sounds like.

    5. rageismycaffeine*

      Just a note, but are you sure there’s nothing else available in your department? I’m in fundraising but not a fundraiser. There are other roles within fundraising that aren’t actually having to ask for money – though obviously that depends a lot on how big the shop is! You might look into the advancement services side of the shop – if you haven’t already. Or the university relations department, which may or may not be a part of the development department at your team.

      Otherwise the suggestions given by others already are very good ones!

      1. SJ*

        Ditto – also in higher ed fundraising but not a fundraiser. I’m an executive assistant and manage a lot of various projects and donor communications.

        1. Cindi Mayweather*

          SJ & rageismycaffeine –

          My department is pretty small, unfortunately. The last couple of people who had my job but stayed in the university became fundraisers.

          Thanks for the advice, though :)!

    6. BeezLouise*

      This is just advice to not move into a higher ed fundraising position if you don’t really want to do it.

      This is my current job, and I’m having a hard time changing careers even though I’ve only done this for a few years — even to another job at the (large) University I’m at. So many of the even lateral money-wise moves require significant experience I don’t have, and every position here has hundreds of applicants, so once you’re on a path, so to speak, it’s hard to get off it.

      1. Cindi Mayweather*

        Wow, thanks so much for the response!

        I think the all-encompassing nature of college/universities that makes them great workplaces also presents me with my problem: I’m overwhelmed by the choice. My issue is that I am not particularly good or bad at anything specific – I was a Comm undergrad, which can service a lot of things. I feel like I only know what I don’t want to do, which isn’t very helpful (fundraising, probably not events, and admissions scares me bc of the pressure they seem to be under).

        BeezLouise – this is what I’m afraid of. I work in development but not as a fundraiser and with the way my office is set up, I feel like that would be the only move I could make. I kind of fell into this work after a toxic experience, and although I love the atmosphere of higher ed, I don’t feel this is the area for me.

        I will see if perhaps informational interviews may be something people here are open to – right now I only know that I like to think creatively and if my job could be helpful to others I’d like that.

        But thank you thank you thank you everyone for the advice! I really appreciate it :)

        1. fposte*

          I’m not seeing any exploration of communications in there, despite your degree–are you not interested in that?

        2. Hermione*

          I went through a similar soul-search when planning my last job hunt – I knew what I did NOT want to do (budget management, faculty support, fundraising, student finances). I also made a list of the tasks in my then-current job I liked (event planning, scheduling, advising students), didn’t mind (website upkeep, generating reports, managing student workers), and those I hated, and searched out any number of jobs that had the things I liked.

          I ended up in the registrar’s office, and while I’m not sure it’s what I want to do forever, it’s a good step in my career, I’m learning a lot, and I’m sure will be able to narrow down a few more things I DON’T want to do in my next job, even if I’m not sure what I DO want to do.

          And with regards to being overwhelmed, just remember that it’s about progress, not perfection. You don’t need to find THE job for the rest of your life, just for the next step of it. Look at the skills you have and the tasks that are required in your current job, and take a step forward. You’ll be fine.

          1. Cindi Mayweather*

            fposte – My degree was focused in TV Production, which was a dream of mine, but ultimately just not a culture fit, despite the dream, and so didn’t pan out. That’s where the introversion gets me!

            Hermione – thank you so much for the perspective! I definitely need that :) It’s just that since I kind of haphazardly fell into this role, I’m concerned that if I don’t start carving out a path for myself now I might lose my way.

    7. Ghost Town*

      I’m in higher ed administration, student services/affairs. A lot of times the only realistic way to move up is to move out. (In my own experience, had my previous supervisor left, I wouldn’t have wanted or qualified for his job. The skill sets and actual duties were completely different.)

      I entered the profession sideways, found out I liked it, and started down the path of professionalization (graduate certificate in HESA and now doing an MS in Adult Education).

      Have you identified what about your current position you like? Is it student interaction or helping students fulfill a goal? Is it working with faculty or realizing the university’s mission? At my university, it seems that the higher you go, the less direct student contact you get on a regular basis, so if that is what really drives you, then you should be careful about moving. Also, even seemingly lateral moves across departments (and especially across schools) can give you a whole different set of responsibilities and salary. (The position I moved to was in the same overarching job category as my previous one, but I’m making 1.5x what I did before. College to Business School.)

      All that to say, really keep your eyes open. See who you are meeting and interacting with in administration. See who is doing what at trainings. See what jobs are being advertised. If you haven’t already, look into professional associations related to your current area, as well as areas you might be interested in.

      Go for the tuition remission-funded Masters in Higher Ed Administration. You’ll learn a lot about administration, yes, but also what’s out there and what’s available. Your classmates will likely be in a similar situation and y’all’ll be fantastic networking for each other.

      Participating in the professional organizations and doing the masters degree can also help satiate the move up itch, short term. They help you in your current role, as well as help you prepare for whatever is next.

      My email’s in my username if you want to have more of a conversation.

      1. Cindi Mayweather*

        Thank you for all the advice!

        I particularly appreciate the note about the degree – makes me feel better than I already did about the choice. Will also look into the organizations!

        Was your move into a different area difficult? I am nervous I am set in this particular path, which I don’t want. I do think I have to spend a bit more time figuring out what my strengths are – I think it’s part of my problem.

        Thanks again!

        1. Ghost Town*

          I’ve only been in my new position for two months, so… Difficult b/c the program is kinda new and went through a lot of growing pains early on, and I’m learning how the Business school does things differently than the College. Still doing some of the same things, but with more focus on specific tasks and I’m no longer responsible for other things.

          I was applying with various levels of gusto for about 2-3 years. I’ve heard from multiple people that they had the same experience. Here, there’s a large pool of well qualified people who want to stay in town, so there is a lot of competition, hence the long slog to actually get interviews and an offer. I had actually interviewed in this same suite of offices about 1.5 years before I got this position, and being seen then and around campus since then helped my candidacy this go round.

          Best of luck!

    8. Kate*

      I know you’re introverted, but if you can push yourself to get to know people throughout campus, that will help you learn more about what’s available. Universities have so many different career paths within them. There could be jobs that would be great for you that you haven’t thought of.

      Plus, there’s the added bonus that you make yourself a better candidate by knowing people. I was able to move around a lot between departments and job functions when I worked at a university. I had a reputation as someone who learned quickly and worked hard, so departments were willing to take a chance on me even when I didn’t have directly relevant experience. I was deliberate about going to more in-person meetings than I had to (vs. calling in), asking people to lunch, and participating in the optional stuff a lot of people poo-poo as not relevant to their work.

      1. Cindi Mayweather*

        You’re so right – and it’s something I really need to work on. The good news is that I do tend to get along with people once I do reach out, it’s just a matter of doing it.

        But this is something I definitely need to hear as often as possible – Thanks :)

        1. Kate*

          :) It doesn’t come naturally to most people. It’s so worth it, though. It makes you more engaged with your work. And it’s so much more pleasant to naturally build relationships through small interactions than to wait until you’re desperate for a new job and then frantically network. I don’t mean to sound like it’s all a means to an end– I genuinely liked the people I worked with, and still keep in touch with some of them. There’s really no downside to building relationships across campus.

          Good luck with everything!

    9. Rainy, PI*

      I just started a new job in career services (old job was a research PI and program manager), and my degrees are all in a very traditional Hum discipline. A Higher Ed master’s is going to qualify you for a number of jobs in student affairs as well as other areas of the university. Several people in my office have Higher Ed degrees, in fact. What kind of roles have you been looking at? I might be able to help.

      1. Cindi Mayweather*

        That’s great to hear! I haven’t really been seriously looking at any specific roles though, because I’m just not sure what I might be a good fit for. I just know that I would rather not move up in my current department (it’s a really unfortunate “I don’t know what I want, but I know what I don’t want situation).

        1. Rainy, PI*

          You might check and see if your career services office offers services to staff–a quick consultation with a careers advisor might help you crystallize your thoughts around what direction you want to go.

          Something else that might help is to look at 10 (or more) job descriptions of jobs you think you might like, copy and paste the list of duties and responsibilities into a word document, take out all the items that you don’t like, reduce the duplicates, and then see what that list of duties and responsibilities translates into as a job. It’s an exercise that can be really illuminating.

    10. Lemon Zinger*

      Hi! I work in higher ed and am taking advantage of tuition remission to get my M.Ed in Higher Ed Admin. There are SO many things you can do in higher education, and my program is good about exposing me to plenty of options. My classmates have a variety of roles in higher ed: IT, tutoring, career services, financial aid, academic advising, etc. It takes a village to make a college or university operate, and it’s nice to learn about the different aspects of that.

      FWIW, I work in admissions and actually realized that I want to stay in admissions thanks to my program. Let me know if you have any specific questions!

      1. Cindi Mayweather*

        Thank you! You know, I’m starting to realize perhaps I should just get started in the program. I am currently trying to figure out what I might like before I enroll – maybe not the best path.

        I know all places are different, but in your experience, is admissions a really pressured environment? That’s what I assumed, which is why I’ve dismissed it largely.

        2. Lemon Zinger*

          If you’re interested in working in higher ed long-term, in any capacity, just go ahead and enroll! You could probably even take a couple of classes without registering for the degree itself, just to gauge your interest.

          Admissions is definitely high-pressure at times, but mostly because we are busy. It can also be very, very slow. I have very little to do during the summer. It’s an incredibly rewarding office to be in because I am literally helping to shape the future of the university. Nothing beats calling a student to tell them they’ve been awarded a huge scholarship, or working with a first-generation student who didn’t think college was possible. Those are the best feelings!

          I don’t have a recruitment quota, and most people in admissions don’t (unless they work at for-profit universities). While some admissions staff have enrollment goals, the real purpose of our work is to educate students about college-going and our institution specifically, and help them figure out if this school is right for them or not.

          A good admissions office has staff who are trained to look for students for whom the school is a good fit: academically, financially, and socially. No high-pressure tactics for me, thanks very much!

          1. Cindi Mayweather*

            That’s really awesome to hear – it’s gone from being a no to a definite consideration. Thanks!

    11. Airedale*

      Just following the conversation since I can relate to this a bit:
      – Also a Communications undergrad who didn’t end up following up with my intended path (nonprofit PR) and transitioned into Higher Ed instead.
      – I’m also somewhat introverted but get along well with most people, and would definitely rather help out a student than call and request a donation.

      I was pretty open in my job search when I changed cities – I chose a few local universities and checked their job postings constantly, applying for whatever seemed like a potential good fit.

      Good luck!

      1. Cindi Mayweather*

        Thanks! Great to hear from someone in a similar situation who’s had success :)

    12. Sabrina Spellman*

      A degree in Higher Ed Administration may help you get into an administrative position like a professional advisor, perhaps the Registrar’s Office, or something within Academic Affairs.

      1. Cindi Mayweather*

        I’m so happy to hear the master’s will be helpful. It is definitely boosting my confidence in enrolling!

        1. Wheezy Weasel*

          I know some schools have a preference to hire alumni as well: with the master’s, you’ll be in that candidate pool too.

  9. Saviour Self*

    I recently moved into a different office. I work for a relatively small company and previously had my office on the outskirts of the office. My new office is on a central corridor that everyone must go through to get to the restroom, kitchen, main copier, etc. With a few exceptions, each person that walks by (multiple times a day), stares into my office at me as they walk past. I’ve been in the new office for over a month now so I would think the novelty would have worn off. I don’t like having my back to the door so I’m facing the door and see it. Every. Damn. Time.

    I’m trying to decide if I’m being sensitive and should really shrug it off. If not, any suggestions on what to do?

    1. Rowan*

      That would totally bug me too! Does your office culture allow for hanging something in that window? A decoration, a window blind, a work-related poster – i.e., anything that would block their view a bit?

      1. Saviour Self*

        I keep my door open unless having a sensitive conversation (I’m HR among other things) and we’re definitely an open door culture

        1. AMT*

          Maybe do the “door slightly open so people feel like they can approach me if they need me, but still mostly closed to block prying eyes” thing?

          1. OlympiasEpiriot*

            Yeah, I was thinking this.

            Also, is there a way for you to rearrange the furniture so you don’t see everyone passing in the corridor? Perhaps there’s some set up where you would definitely see someone who stepped close to your doorway, but not when they were just walking through on the way to the toilets. That way, you could keep the open door, but your line of sight wouldn’t get the distractions. Would that help? Or is it the knowledge that so many are peering in anyhow that bothers you?

            1. Rainy, PI*

              I always set myself so that my main workspace is facing one of the side walls: I’m available if someone needs me, but I’m not looking at the door. My experience is that an office setup where you directly face the door will ALWAYS make people look at you as they walk by. It also encourages them to think you’re available even if you are wearing your best “concentrating on a thing” face.

    2. rageismycaffeine*

      My office is right by the break room (where the copier also is) so I feel your pain. If you’re anything like me you’ll probably stop really noticing it after a while, or doing nothing more than glancing up and then going right back to work. The novelty might not have worn off for everyone else, but it probably will for you – hang in there!

    3. Menacia*

      Well, instead of facing with your front or your back to the door, can you sit sideways so you still have your peripheral view, but an not openly facing one? That might cut down on you noticing people looking at you when they walk by.

      I work in a cubicle that faces the main traffic area and I guess I’ve grown used to people looking at me when they pass by so it does not bother me. I also have dual monitors, so that affords me some privacy.

      2. Terra Firma*

        This is how I have my desk set up in my high traffic office location. It takes care of most of the distraction, but I’m less likely to be startled with someone coming up behind me.

        It doesn’t solve the problem of my office being in direct line of where errant ping pong balls tend to go during lunch breaks and after standard work hours, but it’s better than nothing. ;)

    4. Jen A.*

      I tend to glance through any open door I pass not because I want to be nosy or particularly care what anyone inside is doing but essentially I’m assessing whether someone is about to walk out the door and into my path for example. If the door is closed, I don’t have to make an assessment because the opening of the door will signal me. My situational awareness is calibrated somewhat differently than others though based on some of the locales I have lived in/worked in all over the world (however, not as bad as my friend who has spent even more time in war zones than I have – we’re both civilians – she can’t even read a book on the subway because she has to be aware of what’s going on around her at all times).

      People walk by my office all the time and I assume they do the same thing because I’ll often catch their eye and nod (my desk is against the wall to the left of the door so if they are coming from my left we’ll make eye contact but if they’re coming from my right they would have to stick their head in to see me).

      1. EA in Partly Cloudy Florida*

        This … to get from my desk to the restroom, I need to go into the main hallway, which then zags left for about 5 feet, then back to the same direction I … immediately after it goes back to the original direction, there’s an office on the right. I always end up looking into the office because I’m still doing my “look left then right as I walk around the corner” thing.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        Me too, and I did the same thing at Exjob when walking down long aisles of cubicles. Of course that meant I would occasionally catch someone’s eye.

    5. Hermione*

      What about shifting your computer monitor around so that you’d have to pop your head around the monitor to see out of your door? Then at least you won’t notice them, and all they’d have to look at is the back of your monitor?

      1. Friday*

        And get a bigger monitor if necessary. This is what I did when I had a desk in an open office and faced the entryway.

    6. Artemesia*

      Any possibility a giant plant could be placed so it blocks your face at the desk. Maybe have the desk sideways rather than facing door and a giant plant between you and the door?

      1. Bostonian*

        LOL I missed the “plant” portion of this when I first read it and thought you were giving a funny suggestion to put an actual GIANT in the room. I have officially done too much preparation-binging of Game of Thrones.

    7. Simone R*

      That’s so funny that you posted this. Lately I’ve been noticing that when I walk by the offices on my floor my eyes dart into them even though I have no reason to look in them. Sometimes I accidentally make eye contact with the person sitting there which is super awkward but it keeps happening even tho I’m trying to stop. Maybe if you just think about it as a weird instinct some people have it will be easier to ignore?

    8. Aitch Arr*

      I’m in a temporary office (conference room) and the workarounds to avoid this are: my desk is parallel to the door/hallway; facilities put up a piece of frosted plastic over part of the glass wall next to my door. That way I don’t feel like I’m in a fishbowl.

      1. Jadelyn*

        I have blinds that cover or semi-cover most of my hallway glass wall; my counterparts across the hall had facilities put up some of that cling-film window covering stuff in a pretty but semi-opaque design to escape the fishbowl effect.

      1. kb*

        Brilliant! I think the only impulse stronger than glancing through doorways/windows as you pass them is too check yourself out in a mirror, lol

    10. so_how_sick_do_you_get*

      Make eye contact, wave, or smile. They probably don’t realize they’re doing it.
      I share an office with my co-worker and whenever I walk out I look in her direction. I don’t mean to, I’m not trying to peep on her stuff, but I’m sure it looks that way. Now that I’m aware of it, I’m better able to avert my gaze!

    11. Bostonian*

      You’re not being sensitive, it’s distracting! My cube is in a high-traffic area (conference rooms behind me, copier across from that, everyone in my department has to walk by me to get to their cubes…)

      I don’t have people looking in at me like you do, but to be honest my level of comfort with the constant traffic has gotten worse over time, not better. I think everyone’s suggestions regarding some sort of physical barrier are the way to go. My only relief is that I have 2 monitors: 1 is positioned towards the hall, and the other away, so I can adjust my position in relation to everyone else (when I don’t actually need to use both at the same time).

    12. Lady Alys*

      Can you get a standing screen to partially block the door – maybe it could double as a bulletin-board sort of thing, with HR docs on it? My boss has a screen that she uses so that people can’t see through the small window in her door the utter disaster that is her office.

  10. rageismycaffeine*

    I was just on a local “escape room” company’s website to reserve a game for friends visiting next week, and saw that they’re hiring – interesting to me as I LOVE escape rooms and it might be a fun part-time job.

    So I clicked over to the job application and scrolled down the questions. One of them is – and I quote:

    “Please describe a time that you shocked someone by serving them.”

    Now I am assuming that they mean a PLEASANT shock, but I still find this question so bewilderingly phrased as to be unsure of how to answer it. When I’m not laughing at the mental images it conjures (my husband suggested “One time I served dinner and when I took the silver dome off the platter it was a HUMAN HEAD”)

    How would YOU answer this in a job application and/or interview?

    And – would it be super weird for me to reach out to them (anonymously, probably) and suggest that they reword that one for some clarity?

    1. FDCA In Canada*

      It might be a little weird, but how it’s received probably depends on who gets the email there. If it goes to a general inbox and someone who isn’t in charge of anything checks it, it might not go anywhere. But if it’s a small enough place, it might get sent to the right person and who knows, they might reword it.

      Once I was looking for a local butcher shop and to my surprise, in the text beneath the link on Google–the thing that usually gives a brief description or whatever–the text read “Sexy Linguine Night.” I could not imagine that had been intended, so I sent off a brief email alerting them with a screenshot, and next week it had been fixed. They never did get back to me, though.

        1. afiendishthingy*

          I mean I’m guessing Sexy Lingerie but I’m still mystified about this event occurring at a butcher shop?? Hard pass.

          1. Workaholic*

            I’m adding this to my theme dinner night list. Sexy linguine night sounds kinda fun

        4. FDCA In Canada*

          I believe they changed it to a standard text descriptor a la “Butcher shop specializing in local meats and sausages” and that kind of thing. Sexy Linguine Night was vanished and I never did learn more!

    2. T3k*

      I say if there’s a way to send it anonymously just to point it out and keep a friendly tone, it’ll be fine. I can’t tell you how mortified (but grateful) I was when my personal website for my portfolio had a misspelling I missed and someone anonymously messaged me to let me know.

    3. CityMouse*

      My cousin designs puzzles for one of those. I do think it is an odd question and I think they are looking for quirky thinking. Maybe a time you went above and beyond in an unusual way?

    4. Lucky*

      I once tripped on a customer’s leg and dropped four prime rib dinners on/near him, during a busy New Year’s Eve service. With au jus. That was pretty shocking.

    5. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Honestly, the thing that came to mind when I read that was “I had shoes I couldn’t walk in without scuffing and I shocked anyone I touched”.

      1. LKW*

        And I was thinking “I was an EMT and someone had a cardiac event and we used the portable whatzis to start his heart again.”

        1. EA in Partly Cloudy Florida*

          My first thought was an electrician, but similar results (although, I guess it’s far better for an EMT to be shocking customers than an electrician)

      1. rageismycaffeine*

        You know, I did think of that, but this is not that kind of escape room. If it were that question would make sense.

    8. Epsilon Delta*

      My reading is that the wording is intentional. Like those interviewers who ask you what kind of candy bar you would be. They want to see how you react.

  11. Audiophile*

    Happy Friday!

    I always forget what I want to ask by the time these roll around.

    Guess I’ll pop back in later.

  12. Promotion without a raise*

    I got a promotion (XX to Sr XX). With this new promotion, I got 30% of my salary in RSUs and a good bonus. But my base salary didn’t change. So no base raise at all. This is after previous year of 2.8% raise.

    My manager said they looked at the market and I’m in range, and in half in the upper half of the range. I do not doubt this. I got a really good review – I was rated a 1 in Potential and a high 2 out of 4 in Performance. And according to company comp guidelines, this combination can get a 0% to 4% raise. For context, I’m at a big tech company that is doing well, (not Google or Facebook).

    I told my manager I’m very excited about the new opportunity, I’d like to digest the information, and we’ll talk again in a week when he gets back from a trip.

    So my question – what is the best way to negotiate this raise, and what is the phrasing that is helpful? I have an excellent relationship with my manager and I like my job a lot, and I am excited about my future at this company. I am disappointed I got no raise despite a promotion and a very strong rating.

    1. Cheese Sticks and Pretzels*

      Did you look at the market so see if you fall in range? Payscale, Glassdoor etc.? Check there first to see if what your managment is telling you is true.

    2. It happens*

      Aren’t the RSUs in addition to your salary? Did you receive them at a lower percentage before? That sounds like a (deferred) raise to me. Companies give stock like that to retain employees (among other reasons.) Unless I’m missing something, it sounds like you’re doing ok with your boss.

      1. BRR*

        If the RSU’s were a one time thing and there’s no guarantee of anything additional going forward, I think there’s a case.

    4. Managing to get by*

      It could be that you were already doing the work of a Senior and getting paid at the senior level, so the promotion is just recognizing this, formalizing the title and getting you in the right bonus structure. I’ve done this when I have staff with a lower level title who are performing at the level of higher titled people, and who are in the higher titled salary range due to getting better raises over time since they are exceeding expectations for the lower level job. Usually we try to give at least a small salary bump but sometimes cannot due to how their salary fits with the rest of the people in that salary band. The increase in bonus between our levels is greater than the salary increase at our organization, so it works out well either way.

  13. T3k*

    So, I’m in a bit of a sticky situation and not sure how to write this.

    I had an interview on Tues., and I want to send a thank you note. However, the problem is this: when I applied, I was told they’d send a confirmation email for me to respond to then they’d respond back with the location. I didn’t receive the second email so by the end of the week I tried calling on Fri. but didn’t get anyone, so I left a message. Weekend rolls around, nothing, so I tried calling twice on Mon. (morning and late afternoon) and still nobody.

    The day of the intended interview rolls around and now I’m really at a loss. In hindsight, I should have tried calling earlier that morning, but at the time I was thinking “maybe it’s a phone interview” so 10 mins. after my scheduled time with no one calling, I called and lo and behold, I reach my contact and when I explained I didn’t know the location, it turns out she forgot to send me the information.

    To her credit she explained to the interviewers it was her fault about the miscommunication and they were able to reschedule me for later that day, but now I don’t know how to address this in the thank you note. Do I address it at all, ignore it, claim I should have tried calling that day? (The email would also go directly to the interviewer, as I was given a sheet with their email address, so it won’t have to be relayed through my first contact).

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      No need to address it. Just send a standard follow-up note (ASAP!).

      (You could, I suppose, include a no-fuss line like this: “I appreciate your willingness to reschedule quickly after the miscommunication with Contact.”)

      1. T3k*

        Thanks (and to everyone else with their suggestions). I decided to use similar wording to this just to show I appreciated that they had to move their schedule around a bit because of the miscommunication.

    3. It's me*

      I wouldn’t say anything about what you should have done differently (it sounded like you did a lot to try to sort this out!) but it seems like it would be appropriate to thank them for fitting you in that afternoon following the scheduling miscommunication. That way you are being gracious by acknowledging that they fixed the situation but you don’t seem like you’re groveling/taking responsibility for something that really wasn’t their fault.

    4. WhoseTheCrazyOneHere?*

      It’s a weird situation, which is GOOD because you a memorable now. Might be a good opportunity to ‘stand out’ in the interviewer’s mind.. Whatever was the ‘theme’ of the interview.. “teamwork”, “communication”, “critical-thinking” part that they seemed to care about most, turn the narrative of getting the interview sorted into a story showcasing that skill.

      And best of luck!

    5. Havarti*

      I wouldn’t address it beyond saying thank you for taking the time to do the interview. If you bring up the error or apologize for not calling sooner (after already calling several times), they’re just going to remember you as the person who reminded them they screwed up. Be gracious and ignore it in writing but keep a sharp eye on how they conduct business – if this was a one-time goof or how they normally handle things.

  14. paul*

    Oh good, I’m early:

    If anyone remembers, a few weeks ago I asked about talking to a friend about work burnout and how to broach the the idea that he *really* needed to find a new job.

    Well, he’s applying to places and he’s asked me to be a reference, which is fine. But I’m not sure how to be a good reference.

    We’re long time friends, and we’ve never worked at the same agency–but we have been on some of the same community committees, and back when he was a new case manager and I was working in a shelter, we frequently ran into each other in professional settings (him bringing clients in, meeting clients, etc). The last few years that’s been much less the case due to our shifts in job duties/titles.

    Ideas on how to give a good reference? I know he’s a good case manager and handles that well, and the jobs he’s applied for have zero supervisory components from what he’s said, which I think is a plus (and two of them are in my parent’s small home town in a different state–weird world sometimes!).

    1. Trix*

      So you’d be a personal reference, not a professional reference, right?

      If so, what I’ve done in this situation is let my friend know that while I’d be happy to speak to their character, most of the time, even a glowing personal reference won’t have anywhere near the same weight as any professional reference, so if there are any other professional references they can add, that would probably be a better choice than me.

      Unless, of course, this job is specifically asking for a personal reference (which would be unusual after a first job, in my experience).

      1. paul*

        That’s the thing…I *think* I’d be a little bit of both? I haven’t ever worked at the same place as him but our paths crossed professionally, semi regularly for several years…but were friends before that too so it complicates things.

    2. fposte*

      I think what you’ve covered is fine. I’ve given similar references. You want to be transparent that you haven’t been his boss or his co-worker but still have information that helps draw a picture of him.

      And this is a really good example for people who ask the “Who can I use as a reference if I can’t use my boss?” question. You can use paul. Okay, not literally paul, but somebody you’ve worked with like paul.

      1. neverjaunty*

        Exactly. When you’re up front with interviewers – “Wakeen and I are friends, and we worked together at AcmeCo. Did I ever supervise him? No.” – then they take the reference seriously. The problem comes in when a friend is trying to talk up someone’s professional credentials more than they should be able to do.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      I think you just address the areas you DO know that are positive as you didn’t work with him directly at the same organization.

      “While I haven’t worked at the same agency as Wakeen, I have been on some mutual community committees with him and observed X and Y during his meetings and interactions with clients. I know he enjoys A and B about his role/career as Teapot Consultant and he would likely handle those types of positions very well.”

      If you have a specific committee example it might also be helpful.

    4. motherofdragons*

      I’ve been asked to give references by people who I volunteer with. I always ask the person to tell me a few specific traits or accomplishments they’d like me to highlight about them during the reference call. That gives them the chance to tailor the reference a bit to the job, and it helps me give them an awesome reference. It also gives me the chance to screen it for “Ummm, you didn’t really do that” (which has never happened so far).

  15. DevAssist*

    Hi All!
    I feel like I already know the answer to this, but would it be inappropriate to contact a company two weeks after applying (via email) for an open position? Part of my concern is that my email has a domain that, while not uncommon per say, is less common than gmail. I sort of want to try reaching out just to make sure my email didn’t go directly to the hiring manager’s spam box.

    1. CityMouse*

      I know it is tempting but I wouldn’t do it. It might come across as pushy and unless you have a history of a spam problem it seems unlikely (and if you do have a spam problem the best thing is to get a new email address). Two weeks really isn’t that long in many industries.

      1. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

        +1 from an HR manager who gets annoyed by the number of applicants who send emails like this from folks who are hoping I’ll just set them up for an interview.

        1. Jadelyn*

          My favorite was from the one who submitted her resume at like 4:00pm Friday. By the time I got in on Monday, I had 2 more follow-up emails over the weekend, and a voicemail, which means she called our call center and badgered someone into connecting her through to me.

          She was not considered for the position.

    2. Lisa*

      If the first email went into her spam filter, the second one likely will as well. If the first email didn’t, then there is no real need to send a second one. I vote no.

    3. Here we go again*

      I don’t know if the domain name is a a real concern or something that you are trying to tell yourself as a way to justify your feelings…. It seems like it’s the latter since you do acknowledge that you already know the answer, but I would just get a gmail account in this case. :-)

      1. DevAssist*

        Thanks “Here we go again” and everyone else!

        Yeah, hoping just to be assured. I’m desperate to get out of my current job, but I don’t want to bug people, at all. The email thing is a real concern, but I also have a gmail account (it is just not my primary email). I’m most likely NOT going to email (because, duh) but the process of job searching is frustrating!

  16. Kim Possible*

    I have a question about having job references on a resume.

    To give some background, I’ve been at my current job for two years now (it’s my second job post-college). I’ve had an excellent experience here. In my time at the company, I’ve earned two considerable raises, a promotion, and even had some training documents that I made (unprompted, in my free time) featured on our intercompany website for use across our 36 branches nationwide. My direct supervisor, boss, and coworkers have showered me with praise for two years, and I’m extremely thankful for their encouragement and desire for me to succeed here.

    My first job out of college was a completely different story – an absolutely horrid experience. I worked for a corporation that was based in New York City, from a remote location halfway across the country. I had no managers on site, just two coworkers who were as lost as I was. The company was severely understaffed and overworked, and I was thrown into the deep end on day one with zero training. My “supervisor”, who was a thousand miles away, constantly deflected my questions and refused to train me, claiming to be “too busy.” I was expected to complete high level hedge fund work in an unreasonable time frame, without ever really knowing how to do the work I was given. Six months into my job, I was put on a PIP (which still makes it difficult not to hold a grudge, because my performance was a direct reflection of my lack of training.) I actually ended up making it through the PIP, but already had my current job lined up, and resigned two days after the PIP time frame ended.

    Anyway, my question is – if I ever decided to leave my current company and seek other job opportunities, who will I use as references? There are several people at my current company (supervisor, boss, coworkers), who I know would serve as excellent references. However, I also know that if I were to seek out other jobs, I wouldn’t want my current company to know that I was looking to leave. Obviously, I can’t use anyone from my first company as a reference, after the awful experience I had there. I feel like I’ll be stuck in terms of references when (if) I ever choose to leave here, because those who would give great references for me, can’t know that I’m job searching. The only jobs I had pre-college were a checking job at a grocery store, and a summer internship in the grocery store’s accounting department (which was a small, two person department). While the internship was a positive experience, it happened 4 years ago, and was such a short stint that if I were to use one of my two trainers as a reference (who I haven’t spoken to since), I don’t think they’d be able to speak specifically to my character and work ethic after how long it’s been; it’d probably be more along the lines of, “oh, that girl? Yeah, it was a long time ago, but she did a good job.” I feel similarly about using one of the store managers from the grocery store as a reference, to speak about my employment as a checker. The store goes through hundreds of high school and college students every year, and I wouldn’t anticipate them even remembering who I was (although I did do a good job, FWIW.)

    Any suggestions would be appreciated!

    1. briefly anon*

      No advice, but love your name. I’ve cosplayed as her before and am planning to again soon, along with a Shego for the first time. I might just have red hair and be named Kim.

    2. CAA*

      Get connected on LinkedIn with everyone you would want to use as a reference if you could. By the time you need references, it’s likely that some of those people will have left your current company. They can still be used as references even if they don’t work with you or the company any longer.

      Don’t use the pre-college jobs at this point unless a new employer is being ridiculous about “at least 3 supervisors” or something like that. You’ve got 2 post-college professional jobs and your references for new professional positions should come from those rather than from the grocery store.

    3. Amber T*

      Similar experience here (horrible first job out of college, good second job but considering leaving, just not sure how!). Really hoping there are some good responses, because I am at a loss on how to start looking.

    4. oy with the poodles already!*

      My advice – purely from personal experience that mirrors this in many ways – is that there are opportunities to make this work, and sometimes you just have to be a bit creative. I’m a major worrier and this kind of thing stresses me out a lot – so I totally get it.

      If you were to need references, could you perhaps ask a colleague in your department or peer somewhere else in the org. who knows you well, but might not be your direct manager? If they ask for managers (and they usually do…) you can always explain that your current manager doesn’t know you’re job searching, but that you have people elsewhere who you’ve worked with who know your work well.

      Is there anyone other than your manager that you did work well with at evil oldjob? Maybe a coworker who saw your hardwork and knows you have gained considerable skills since? Other options might be if you volunteer or something like that, you can ask someone who knows your work to speak to it.

      I think you have a great problem here, in that you enjoy and are good at what you’re doing but also want to climb the ladder and move upwards. That’s great! I have a feeling if your current job is that fabul0us, there will be someone there to be a reference and cheer you on as you move forward. People in good orgs like to see each other succeed – and moving on to new jobs is indeed a part of that.

      good luck!

    5. ginkgo*

      I asked a similar question a while back, so I feel you! What about people you worked with at the current company who have moved on to other jobs? It helps that this isn’t a pressing issue at the moment – just keep up good relationships with them and keep in touch when they leave (on LinkedIn or whatever).

    6. Liane*

      Did you mean job references on an application?
      Reference lists aren’t part of resumes (or cover letters), and don’t get submitted with them. Well, there are a very few exceptions (academia I think?) where it is expected that you will include reference/recommendation letters in your application packet.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I would suggest to the boss that the problem with tying evals and bonuses to reviews on the internet is that you have no way of knowing what is real and what is not.
      For example, two coworkers could despise each other. The nastier coworker could post fake bad reviews on the net and therefore get their coworker written up and/or bonus-less.
      OTH, if good reviews give people bonuses and good evals, then employees might start paying people to sing those praises online. I think this is going to get employees into hot water ethically quicker than the previous scenario.

      The next problem that the boss will face is that he could have several people with write-ups. This could impact business as employees start doing all kinds of strange things so that they do not get hit with a write-up.

      The basic problem that the boss does not see is that we cannot control what people write about us on the internet. You can say something to the effect, “Boss, you could write that ‘Nervous Accountant is a jerk’ all over the internet and there is very little I can do to stop you. This is the world we have, Boss. I’d like to suggest that it would just be best to target good customer service, we are losing precious time and energy chasing a few naysayers. There will always be naysayers.”

      In the days before the internet, companies would write letters to complainers, “I am sorry you had this experience. Please stop in (or call) and we will be happy to help reconcile the problem.” Now I am seeing similar responses from companies online. It’s a solid, classy response.

      Have you looked at your company’s financials? I am concerned because the boss seems to be grasping at straws with this reviews on the net thing. And I am wondering why the desperation. Many years ago I worked for a company that was going to save itself from ruin by watching how much money was spent on office supplies. “Do not lose your pen, we will go under if you do. And try to use less TP, okay?”
      I looked at their financials for the year. Their second largest expense was “miscellaneous”. I knew I had to leave.

    8. NoodleMara*

      I’m in a similar boat! I’ve only had one job post college and it’s the one I’m trying to leave. I had one part time college job. I’ve got a volunteer position with a lovely manager there so I’m using her as one reference. There’s also a coworker who left the company that I will be using. I suspect I’ll need to do what Alison recommends and get an offer in hand with a final check with current manager. I’ve got an excellent relationship with my boss and I know he’ll give me a good reference once I’m committed. I’m going to try and do better in the future with keeping up with people but I’m not on linkedin and don’t really talk much to people I don’t see.

  17. Nervous Accountant*

    Thanks all for the replies last week, it was super helpful! Evals from managers are due next week and meetings are in the weeks after so there’s not much I can say right now in that regard, but I have a few points I’ll ask about in a separate post.

    But Yall, I had a super crazy week this week, and it just felt all around weird/heavy not just for me but for others.

    A client left a bad review on our social media. Unlike last time I wasn’t asked to call and grovel to get them to remove it BUT it was still bad bc my manager (regretfully i may add) said the’d be forced to write me up if it happened again.

    The TL of events–
    I had a call scheduled. Left two voicemails and sent a personalized email (our procedure when clients are no shows).
    I step away from my desk, when I come back I prep for another client. I talk to the client. client emails me back, and we communicate over email. He had scheduled an appointment for the next day, so I said we’d talk then.

    Next morning, client leaves a bad review and our company takes these VERY seriously.

    My mgr was pretty frustrated about this and spent a lot of time trying to placate the client.

    Towards end of the day, he talked to me–basically saying that I know better. The company loses money over bad reviews, and the writeup.

    Worst part? This could affect my raise/bonus. I was livid at this. I’ve worked too hard over hte last few years to get a write up again, which was unfair and humiliating the first time around.

    I do my job, I DO IT WELL and I’m seething that a year of hard work cannot be undone by one client’s review when I made every sincere effort to contact them.

    I just feel this was unreasonable.

    1. LCL*

      Your company is unreasonable. Any jerk can say anything on social media. I feel bad for you, I think it is lousy of your company to base your raise and bonus on social media postings.

    2. Brogrammer*

      Did your manager tell you what you should have done differently? It sounds like you followed the standard procedure but the client got upset anyway.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        The client called back a few times, but each time either I was away from my desk or on call with another client. I have appointments throughout the day, and when I don’t have a call, I’m emailing my clients or working on other things. They felt I should have just called him even for a few minutes.

        I take a bit of a stricter stance with clients and I’ve been told to be softer on that, and I have, I REALLY REALLY HAVE. But things like this make it feel like the end of the world.

    3. Cheese Sticks and Pretzels*

      I would think your email (per procedure) that you sent when the client was a no show should trump the negative review. How can it possibly be your fault when it was the client who was the no show?
      I agree 100% it is unreasonable that a clients review that was totally out of your control can affect your raise/bonus. Especially when you have email communication to back you up.

    4. Menacia*

      I hate these kinds of impossible to achieve goals that you have absolutely no control over…ridiculous.

    5. Jessi*

      So the client didn’t answer when you called? You left two voicemails and emailed him and He wrote a bad review?

      I mean what else were you supposed to do? keep calling till he answered? I would literally ask my boss this – what else could I have done?
      I think if this does block your raise and bonus you know everything you need to know about your future with this company – 1 bad review will stop you progressing and it might be time to look for a new position….

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I did–he said picked up when he called back. or called him back.

        I was already communicating over email, I thought that was enough.

        1. Jadelyn*

          Clearly your manager needed to discuss these very, very specific expectations with you at some point and didn’t. If they’re going to get that pissy about you emailing rather than calling, they need to make that clear to you well in advance of it ever being an issue.

          And frankly, the fact that your bonus is hostage to social media reviews, of ALL THINGS, is absurd.

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        I mean. No one threatened that that would be the case. But I’m scared it will be. Just last week I was prepared to ask for a giant increase so idk what’ll happen now.

    6. OlympiasEpiriot*

      I agree. This sounds completely unreasonable. I can’t imagine basing all of a review on a single review (or even a handful) from a client who didn’t even show up for a scheduled call.

      Best of luck.

    7. WellRed*

      I think it’s a stretch to say the company loses money over a bad online review. I mean, it’s not ideal, but how do they quantify that? And yes, this is totally unreasonable.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        they’re able to quantify that every bad review results in the loss of a potential customer.

    8. LKW*

      I’m curious, what did the client want you or your company to do differently? Be available for them at-will? Is the negative review based in reality or imaginary capabilities? Does your manager understand the difference between the two?

    9. Liz*

      It sounds like the client missed the scheduled call, then you missed her call back. And instead of calling again, you emailed and rescheduled the call.

      And the client was unhappy that you were not flexible enough to talk.

      You boss was clear that you should have called the client back instead of emailing her to reschedule.

      It sounds like this position requires more flexibility than you like?

      I don’t know the timing here but if I had an appointment and called you back during that time, I would be very unhappy that you were not available to me.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        No the client rescheduled on their own. That’s why I didn’t call back and emailed bc I thought we’d talk during the next appt.

        The client was calling back after the appointment time was over.

        I could have been more flexible

        1. The OG Anonsie*

          You could have, but what happened was entirely reasonable. You accommodated the client in the way that they indicated they wanted to be accommodated– they asked to reschedule, which you did. They didn’t indicate to you that they wanted this to go any other way, why would you push them to do something other than what they asked and call that better service?

          The fact that they were then unhappy that things went the way they set it up to go is dumb, but what’s way more dumb is the way your management is acting like this is a grave offense that you should have prevented. Worse is that years of good performance can get hung on something as asinine as this and block your bonus.

    10. Michael Scarn, CPA*

      I’m assuming you’re in public accounting? If so, get out. Go to industry. You get to do the accounting without the hassle of client service. I’m so much happier in industry.

    11. misspiggy*

      This looks like your company will use any excuse to get out of paying bonuses. As bonuses are a key means of employee retention, why should you stay?

  18. Interviewing*

    I’ve had 2 promising first interviews and one job is so clearly the better fit that I’ve considered Allison’s past remarks about unsolicited recommendations from past managers. Is it a terrible idea to have one of my supervisors reach out? How is this typically done?hope to hear from jobseekers, recommenders and hiring managers who have experienced this.

    1. Saviour Self*

      Does your past manager know the hiring manager?

      If not, I wouldn’t do it.

      If they do, you could mention that you’ve applied for the position at company XYZ and interviewed with Hiring Manager NAME and ask their opinion on reaching out to the hiring manager.

    3. Health Insurance Nerd*

      I don’t love this idea; as a hiring manager, if I received unsolicited feedback from a supervisor of a potential new hire, it would make me think twice about moving forward and offering that person a position.

    4. Lily in NYC*

      It’s not going to help you and could backfire big time. I’d avoid doing it. I’ve been helping with hiring for a long time now and the only time we got an unsolicited reference, it was for an intern who was still in college.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        One caveat – if your reference is a big name in the industry, my advice changes and I say go for it.

    5. BRR*

      Unless they know each other I wouldn’t do it. If i was the hiring manager, it woudl just feel like a candidate trying to circumvent the system.

  19. Alex*

    Reflecting on my own situation, I am curious about peoples’ role models for career success. Did you have a parent or teacher or mentor that explained/modeled how to be successful (however you define it) or did you have to figure it out on your own? Are you still figuring it out? Did being a good student translate to being a good employee or were there additional traits/behaviors you had to learn to be successful? Thanks.

    1. Backroads*

      I feel like I had to spot and emulate the best when I actually entered the field (teaching). I even had a professor early on in college say there were two types of education majors: those who learned much about teaching in college and those who had to be in the field to get it and for whom the teacher art part of the major were a waste of time. I was definitely the latter.

    2. Rincat*

      I think my role models were more of the “DON’T do this” variety. They weren’t terrible (not all of them), they just made some choices that took them down paths they didn’t want to go, and regretted it later. Like my mom – she got a master’s in a subject she didn’t really want, and took on adjunct teaching she didn’t really want to do, and now she wishes she had an entirely different career path – but she did those things because she thought “that’s what you’re supposed to do.” I understand sometimes people make choices out of necessity (like if you need a paycheck right now or something) or various circumstances, but things like that made me resolve to do things for the right reasons, and not just “because that’s what you do.” This is why I quit my master’s program and I’ve never regretted that (also I have significantly less debt!)

      I also just read a LOT of stuff online and from books from different people about things like “how to be a database admin” or other paths I was interested in. I keep tabs on the Bureau of Labor Stats and other economy and tech news so I can get a sense of where the industry is headed, and what skills I need.

      I’m probably still figuring out a lot though. :) I could definitely be more assertive, and I think that would have helped a lot. But I’m in a pretty good place now!

    3. Lora*

      I have some mentors, although the most powerful one doesn’t do anything remotely related to what I do now. But I didn’t meet him until I was mid-career. Prior to that, well…STEM is notoriously nasty to women, and it was a long time ago when it was even nastier than it is in 2017. So I’m kinda making it up as I go along.

      The really hard part was learning that I am not going to be recognized or rewarded for critical, horrible disease-curing, saving people from certain death work. I get a certificate of appreciation, maybe a gift card for $100 on Christmas (and maybe not). Realistically, that recognition goes to men who know how to play office politics, not women no matter how much they know about politics. I mean, we just published the results of a really important clinical trial, and I know for a fact that the work was split pretty evenly between men and women because of this particular sub-field, and involved a lot of work by two women in particular – those two women aren’t credited AT ALL, and the ratio of men:women on the authorship is >3:1. And that is considered fairly progressive, because they did credit the woman who managed the analytical work and normally she’d be ignored. Coming to terms with the sheer amount of sexism, racism, and especially classism in my field was tough. Like, your colleagues are mostly polite and nice and intelligent, but odds are they are mostly jerks you don’t want to hang out with on a personal level. And you’re gonna have to do team building exercises with these dudes whom you find morally reprehensible in so many ways.

      No, being a student had nothing to do with being successful. Learning office politics and networking has done a LOT more for my success than being a good student. Which is unfortunate, I worked my butt off in school and I was great at learning things quickly. But knowing things that are relevant to your field has very little to do with who is successful: mostly it’s timing and being lucky. There’s a guy where I work now, who got to the same level I am with a completely irrelevant background just by virtue of his properly educated boss quitting suddenly and he was the oldest and most senior pair of hands in the lab, even though all he had been doing was literally being a pair of hands with a pulse, hired at a time when they were expanding quickly and desperate for warm bodies. I mean, everyone hates dealing with him because it drags things out for hours trying to catch him up on the background info, but there he is.

      1. only acting normal*

        Ack. So true. (I’m a woman in STEM too).
        I’m so often staggered by the disparity between the good-to-mediocre-to-useless men compared to the mostly-absolutely-stellar women (still true among the graduate hires so I don’t see it changing any time soon). And you’re correct, the recognition doesn’t go where it’s due.
        I’ve had my work credited to a sub-ordinate male more than once (they don’t even have to try to steal credit, it just gets handed to them by higher-ups, on -quote- “a feeling” that it couldn’t have been me who did it). It does make one bitter and cynical, once you’ve got over the shock.

        It was really brought home to me by the Xmas meal where five middle-aged, middle-class, white men (sat opposite five younger/older/working-class/female/disabled/minority team mates, all junior to them) were happily chortling about how ridiculous efforts at “diversity” were, with not a hint of irony or self-awareness. And they were all relatively “good guys”!

    4. Temperance*

      I had to figure this out on my own. I grew up in a lower-class/blue collar family, and it was really difficult to navigate. Blue collar culture is vastly different from white collar culture.

      1. Mischa*

        Absolutely. I also came from a working-class family, was the first college grad and now first person (including extended family) to pursue a law degree. It’s been really tough and I learned everything basically by trial and error. I made some poor financial decisions in regards to student loans, because my parents and I had zero idea what we were doing. But I don’t regret those decisions even though they are a huge burden. I’m still figuring things out, but I’m happy with where I am in life.

      2. krysb*

        This. I’m making it up as I go along. I have one cousin in a similar position. I am one of four kids, and the only one to graduate from high school, let along go to college (which I won’t even graduate until December, and I’m 32). It’s a great big mystery to me.

    5. matcha123*

      I didn’t have anyone, and it’s been very frustrating for me. My immediate family is small and I don’t really have any contact with them, and the adults around me when I was growing up were either teachers/professors, doctors, lawyers or working for NGOs. These people came from families that were already quite well off, and none of them had careers that appealed to me.
      I’m still trying to figure out my own path. It’s frustrating to watch my friends as they climb higher, get fatter paychecks and promotions, while I am somewhat stuck doing the same thing for a low salary.

      I think that I’m a good employee, but I started working in 3rd grade delivering newspapers and I’ve stayed employed with little interruption until now. The longest I’ve been unemployed has been maybe 8 to 10 months, and I’m 33 now. What makes me a good employee is something I hate, and that’s the fear of having no job and being homeless. I don’t have a safety net, savings or family that can bail me out. This means that when I start at a new place, I have to be extra observant, very careful and never complain. I’ll take on any task and volunteer for any task I think I can do or help with. I’ve gotten positive feedback from every place I’ve worked at, and when I have had problems, it’s been very clear that my work ethic or ability were not the issue. Someone didn’t like me, but the quality of my work and the friendly relations I formed with other coworkers meant that I did have some political capital (even if I am generally the youngest person on the team).

      1. matcha123*

        I should add, I didn’t have any mentors. I am always so surprised when I see people here write about work mentors who have coached them through tough times. I suppose part of it has to do with the jobs I’ve worked. But even as a student, no one took any interest in me. I was a “good girl” and a good enough student. Send your mentors my way!

        1. Anxa*

          Yeah, I really have a hard time picturing having a true work mentor. I can’t even imagine how awesome that would be.

          I was not actually a good student for a few years (undergrad…oh why oh why couldn’t I have picked ANY other 3 year period to slump) so maybe I never felt I deserved to ask for help. My school ran out of advisors, internships were competitive, and despite advocating for my classmates all of the time (literally one of my jobs), I never felt like I really deserved anyone’s extra attention because I hadn’t aced all the prep-work/hw, etc.

    6. Menacia*

      I never had anyone to guide me so I developed very strong observation skills and had to learn many things by reading (which thankfully, I love to do). I still do so today (Google is my best friend), I tend not to ask many questions because not knowing something or asking for help was always viewed as a weakness.

    7. Kate*

      I was very, very fortunate to have parents that modeled how to be successful. Mostly I learned by watching them, but they’re also full of great advice and always willing to talk. I hit the jackpot.

      Beyond that, I also adopted mentors along the way. I’ve never had a formal mentor/mentee relationship. When I see someone whose career path looks interesting and who’s well-respected, I observe them, try out some of their behaviors and tactics, and see what works. Sometimes I seek out their advice, but mostly I just observe. It’s been really effective. Performance reviews when I was in my mid-20s tended to talk about my maturity and professional presence, which was funny because I was imitating the successful middle aged women around me.

    8. Sara*

      Zeroing in on your good student/good employee question, I remember being surprised at how little the subject matter content for what I studied actually came into play, and I even ended up in a career that directly related to my major (yes, art history majors DO get jobs sometimes!).

      What I found was much more useful were the skills I’d learned from things like being involved in leadership positions in student organizations and work-study experiences. For example, the year I spent on the leadership board of my sorority taught me how to lead a meeting and work with a budget, which no class I took ever did. And I had a work-study job doing PR for the music department’s events, which was in no way at all related to my major, but having to learn how to do that in that job turned out to be very useful in my first job, when I had to promote and run programs for the museum I worked in. Again, nothing I ever learned in a class.

      When I’ve had interns now, that’s usually part of the advice I give them: yes, classes matter, but also pay attention to the other things you’re learning outside of class. Being able to communicate and be organized and able to realize when you need to learn something is just as useful as subject matter.

    9. writelhd*

      I think we’re always still figuring out. My first boss (and my current boss) has been an amazing role model to me—I lucked out in that regard. Not only is he an awesome worker and leader, but he actually did my job before he got promoted to being president, so I got to see how he did my job, before it became my job. As my job is a lonely one that could be charted a bunch of possible ways, and something people who aren’t doing it don’t really understand, that was hugely beneficial. Even so, I don’t always do it the way he did it– I’m always watching other people–especially people who *aren’t* above me in the ladder– to see how they handle all kinds of different situations, and trying to absorb what lessons I can from them. Everybody can teach everybody something, really.

    10. KR*

      I had a mentor in Last Job and while he taught me a lot of amazing skills and opened doors for me, he also taught me what I didn’t want to happen in terms of being a supervisor and how a department can work and work can flow. I have had people I’ve worked with in projects and seen in companies I’ve worked for that have really been role models for me in that I want to be as efficient and organized and professional as they are (considering I’m on AAM when I should be working I’d say I’m doing great). I also am always on the lookout for females that are doing Great Work, females I really admire in my company, and in positions of power because while I don’t want to be CEO I want to be successful in what I do throughout life and women face unique challenges in the work force.

    11. Liz*

      As a child I thought my mousy mom was a terrible role model and my pushy, loud, and overbearing aunt was a great role model. As i got older i realized they were 2 sides of the same coin and neither was a good role model. I never really found a good role model though, I just stumbled along. I once asked someone to be a mentor, it did not go well. Currently my closest friend, who is 19 years younger, is a killer businesswoman but she struggles with personal life. So we are mentors for each other.

  20. Sadie Doyle*

    Last week, I posted about waffling over applying for a job where I’m an good-but-not-great match and wishing my jerk brain would shut up long enough for me to actually apply. I spent the weekend writing a respectable cover letter and getting feedback, let it sit another day, and then, even though my jerkbrain attacked again, I applied.

    Yesterday, I got a request for a phone interview for Monday (!!!!!). So now I need to spend my weekend researching and thinking and preparing so that they can see I can definitely be a great hire for them. Keep your fingers crossed! Thank you all for your encouragement last week :)

    2. WhoseTheCrazyOneHere?*

      This is going to make some people crazy, but I have no shame:

      I apply to every job with a relevant job title, don’t read the description, and worry about it only if/after I hear back from them.

      BUT, after I hear back.. then I go into research mode and decide if I am interested. If not, I send a thank you, but no thanks, email as soon as possible.

        1. Camellia*

          Oh, wait, I just thought about cover letters. Do you just use one standard cover letter for them all?

        1. WhoseTheCrazyOneHere?*

          I have a standard template that I use, and just copy/past the job description part of “desired qualifications’ into a middle part that I created that works well. something like..

          Further to your job description, I bring the following qualifications:

          I’m experiences, and the job descrips for my area of work are pretty standard anyway. Unless they add something really out of left field, I have the qualifications.

          1. WhoseTheCrazyOneHere?*

            I’ll add two things:

            1. I’m passively searching. I currently have a good job and don’t need to leave it. This is important because I’m sure there are very good jobs that passed me over for having too generic of a cover letter.
            2. Despite #1, this actually still works. I put out maybe 10 – 15 resumes a month, usually just “easy-apply” from indeed or linkedin, and get 4-5 call backs a month. Are they all winners? nooooope. But they’re not all losers either.

      3. Jadelyn*

        I gotta say…from the other side of that desk…I hate when applicants do that. And yes, we can usually tell that’s what’s going on. I get that it’s a more efficient use of the candidate’s time, but it’s a waste of my time, which doesn’t exactly endear the candidate to me.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Yeah, I can tell when people are doing it too, and I assume they’re not terribly interested in the job. It’s not a good look.

          There may be some industries where this works though (IT?).

          1. Windchime*

            No, it doesn’t work in IT, either. There is nothing more annoying that setting up a phone interview with a candidate who has “SQL proficiency” on their application, only to find out that they can barely write a simple select. Especially when you find out that they also applied to the telecom and networking teams.

            We want someone who is focused and has specific (or transferrable) skills. Someone who is smart and particular about what jobs they apply to.

        2. Turanga Leela*

          When I was hiring for a small firm, I rejected people who did this. It was really easy to tell, since we did specialized and unusual work—lots of people sent in generic cover letters about their skill at teapot contracts and litigation, which we didn’t handle at all. It really mattered to my boss that we had people who were committed to our work and philosophy, and the cover letter was our best first way to see if candidates were a good match.

          I’m not saying not to use WhoseTheCrazyOneHere’s strategy; I get why she thinks it’s a good use of her time. BUT I think it’s important to realize that if you take this approach, you’ll never move forward with the companies that really care about hearing why you’re a good fit for them in particular. There’s a trade-off. (And on the flip side, places like my former company never get to interview people who’ve decided to use this approach.)

  21. Backroads*

    This was getting tossed around on my teacher board. A teacher was being pressured to give up her summer to work for a few students. Turns out this isn’t unheard of to be asked. However, traditionally teachers work on such a contract that they just can’t be summoned during off-contract time. Where’s the line between stepping up and being pressured to work?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m sure teacher contracts vary depending on region/state and public vs. private. The school may be legally within its rights to require the teacher to do this, but that doesn’t make it an ethical or good move. Burning out your teachers more quickly isn’t doing yourself any favors in the long term.

      1. blackcat*

        Yeah, when the (private) school that I worked at tried to require us to answer email within 48 hours, meet with parents, etc during summers, several of the more experienced teachers pointed out that our contracts explicitly described us as “10 month employees.” 10 month folks got only 2 vacation days, compared to the 15 for 12 month folks, among other reductions in benefits. Overall, this makes sense! We had 8-9 weeks off during the summer. But if they wanted us to work *at the school*, even part time, for the 2 months we were supposed to have off, then our contracts needed to reflect that. The school backed down.

        (We were particularly cranky because most folks only took 1 week of the 2 of winter break “off” and maybe 4 or 5 weeks of the summer. The rest of the time, including other holidays, we were working.)

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          That’s great you were able to point that out, but I’ve worked at a few schools where teachers actually have 12-month contracts—they just work 10 months out of the year (really hard, mind you). When I taught, I had one of those, and, yes, in theory the school could have called me to do something during the summer (they didn’t). I used some of my summer to plan curriculum with other teachers in my department, but that was just a few days.

          1. Backroads*

            Not a bad system. I have been summoned in a couple of times this summer, but kind of on a “could you work this in?” Stance with a separate check to cover the day.

    2. LCL*

      The difference between stepping up and being pressured is whether or not there are any negative consequences to y0u if you don’t do it.
      Do this or you’re fired/contract won’t be renewed is pressure. Management may try to revise history and thank you for stepping up in these cases, making it sound like you volunteered rather than the truth which is they bullied you into it.
      Can you do this, please, we’re desperate isn’t pressure, if they can accept an answer of no.

    3. Backroads*

      One particular case mentioned was a newish teacher on a 10-month contract. A parent was working some IEP laws (though not a few of us suspected she was looking for free summer childcare) and demanded that teacher, who was only offered a small stipend (as the budget wasn’t there) that didn’t even cover her own childcare. I believe she wisely refused.

  22. Buffy Summers*

    So, the other day I commented on the letter about biting a coworker. I said I knew it made me a bad person but I had laughed really hard at Alison’s comment about biting coworkers as a means of conflict resolution. And, of course, I joked that it would solve a lot of problems for me at my workplace and that I would be biting my manager the next time she was in.
    I didn’t bite my manager, but you can imagine my sense of irony (if I’m even using that correctly) as I sat in the ER last night receiving my first round of rabies shots! I got bit (bitten?) by a skunk last night. So maybe that was karma. Who knows! I will never make light of biting again!!
    Well, I probably will, but at least not for a while. Hope you all had a great week and have a great weekend and don’t approach skunks that are, apparently, completely unfazed by your presence.

    1. edj3*

      I had a close encounter with a couple of raccoons running toward me this week on an early morning run. You might have read about the woman in Maine who was out trail running and got bitten by a rabid raccoon–I had, so those two raccoons running toward me scared the ever loving SNOT out of me.

      Turns out they were trying to get away, and their preferred storm drain was right by me

    2. Health Insurance Nerd*

      If it makes you feel better, when I read that letter I also cracked up (but I’m a fan of totally inappropriate humor!)
      And, OMG, so sorry about your rabies experience, how terrible! Feel better!

    3. paul*

      Oh, that’s bad! I hope you’re OK.

      Not to panic you, but for other’s edification: Rabies is *very* serious and has something like a 99% fatality rate if contracted; this is why you don’t pick up bats, skunks, raccoons, etc that seem hurt or confused! It’s generally not likely they’re rabid, and rabies is actually pretty hard to contract apparently, but if you do…it’s really not a good prognosis. Hence the post-exposure vaccine (I think these days it’s four doses?).

      1. Buffy Summers*

        Yep, it’s four. Solid advice. I need you on speed dial for my next temptation to get up close and personal with a wild animal. Maybe you can talk me down.

      2. Mustache Cat*

        That 99% fatality rate is honestly more like 100%. I think there’s been about two people in human history who’ve survived rabies.

    4. Lucky*

      That’s hilarious, but also terrible and I’m sorry you’ve got to have rabies shots. A family friend had to take them (attacked by raccoon) and it was not pleasant.

      Maybe it’s a sign that you should take a lesson from the skunk, and spray your manager with something stinky? Or just fart in his general direction.

    5. fposte*

      I had those! They weren’t that bad for me–it was more trouble getting through the hospital bureaucracy to get the serum, because they don’t regularly carry it. Hopefully they’ll be the same for you.

      On the bright side, if you *do* bite a co-worker, now you will only need to be quarantined, not put to sleep.

      1. paul*

        I’ve never had them but my younger brother has; he found ’em excruciating and he doesn’t usually mind shots. Said they weren’t as bad as the antiemetic shot he (and I) have both had coming out from under general anesthetic though.

        1. fposte*

          How long ago was it? It used to be they had to do a horrible long needle in the stomach; now it’s just a basic intramuscular shot but the first batch is so large that they have to give you several and in larger muscles than the arm (I had four, with a pair of nurses who adorably tag-teamed me on 1, 2, 3 so I only had 2 injection moments, as it were). Followups were just basic arm shots.

          1. paul*

            He was still in votech (they startled a raccoon that was in the workshop that the class was in). So maybe around 2004 or 2005? I can’t recall for sure

            1. fposte*

              Huh, would have thought that was recent enough to get the less traumatic kind; maybe he just had a bad experience.

      3. Camellia*

        “On the bright side, if you *do* bite a co-worker, now you will only need to be quarantined, not put to sleep.”

        This made my day. I love this site.

      4. Buffy Summers*

        I will certainly take comfort in knowing a quarantine will be all that’s necessary. Although today, the thought of being “put to sleep” sounds absolutely wonderful. Assuming there is a point where I will wake up, that is.

        They weren’t that horrible for me either. I had hyped myself up, expecting this terrible experience that was going to be the Worst Pain Ever, but it really wasn’t nearly what I was bracing myself for.
        They had the serum on hand, so I was only in the ER for about 4 hours total.

        Now three more in the arm over a period of a couple of weeks and we’re done.

    6. Marisol*

      My mother had rabies shots as a child and it was one of those oft-repeated family stories because it was so awful for her–I think it was something like a dozen shots in her abdomen?? Not sure it they still do that–hopefully they’ve come up with a better solution, but you have my sympathies for having endured an unpleasant experience.

      If you’re into woo-woo, here’s some info I found on skunk totem animals:
      http://www.sunsigns.org/skunk-animal-totem-symbolism-meanings/

      1. Mephyle*

        Yes, as mentioned above, but it’s worth noting again that they don’t do the shots in the abdomen any more. They are fewer in number and much less traumatic than they were in those days.
        It would be tragic for someone to forgo their post-bite rabies shots because they had heard about the painful treatment, not knowing that it isn’t so bad now.

    7. Teapot, Inc.*

      I’m glad you’re OK, but “Buffy Summers” worrying about being bitten delights me immensely.

    8. Elizabeth West*

      No, you’re not bad–I laughed at that too.
      And I’m sorry you had to get rabies shots. I guess the only consolation would be if the skunk had to get Buffy shots.

  23. apparently not the only fashion designer here*

    I’m a fairly recent graduate working in the apparel design industry at my first real job, and my boss just proposed taking me from 40 hours a week to 30/32 while keeping my full benefits. It seems to me that I don’t have a choice and they’re asking me about this in lieu of letting me go for lack of work. Obviously I’ll start looking for employment elsewhere, but does anyone have any tips for working contract/part time/for yourself in this industry, especially for someone as green as me? I’ve worked here for a year and a half in a tech design position, although my degree is in fashion design. I can’t really afford to take the pay cut, but some pay is better than none. Help!

    1. AndersonDarling*

      I don’t have the best advice, but I went through the exact same thing xx years ago! I was an asst technical designer for a fashion catalog and I was put to part time with benefits. It actually worked out for me because the company was going through layoffs and I was safe because they only focused on salary employees for cuts.
      I was able to work on my own dressmaking projects with the spare time and make some $$.

    2. Rookie Manager*

      Have you done the tax maths? Sometimes working p/t you end up with a better net hourly rate, have less transport costs etc and its really worth it. You also have those extra hours for a side gig, volunteering, further education… as well as maybe having more time to cook from scratch vs take out so you save money in other ways.

      If you’ve done this then sorry for patronising you. I personally found going from p/t to f/t I was effectively working for free one day a week – the opposite may be true for you.

      1. Natalie*

        If fashion designer is US based, the way our tax system is structured means it’s impossible for them to have a higher net pay by earning less gross. But they would still have that extra time, if they want it.

  24. SaraV*

    Wednesday I had my first interview in over four years. Eep. And I had to drive an hour and a half on the hottest day of the week. Luckily, my MIL lives nearby the town I was interviewing, so I asked if I could get ready there. Trip was almost a disaster as I just about left my town without my interview clothes.

    I feel like the interview went really well. My interviewer had a more conversational tone with the interview instead of “I must ask all of these questions in this particular order, etc.” That really helped me, especially since there were no “Tell me about a time when…” questions. (I had examples ready, but I felt like they were weak) I even asked The Question, and after answering it, the interviewer said “I love that question…great question.” I was at ease enough to even ask what I thought was a good question off the top of my head.

    But now! There’s a possibility of a peer interview. So yet another round to go. Is it bad that when this was mentioned, my brain went “Oh no! I might need to find another summer-weight interview appropriate outfit!”

    I would strongly suggest downloading Alison’s interview guide. It really does help.

    PS – Hoping my links work posting from my phone.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Congratulations! I sweat when I’m nervous, so interviewing on the hottest day of the week sounds awful, but it sounds like it went well anyhow. I wouldn’t worry about getting a full new outfit – I think changing out your top/accessories is fine and no one will notice. And I love that interview guide!

    2. Windchime*

      +1 to Alison’s interview guide. I had purchased her book for one of my boys a few years ago, so I read that and also the interview guide. I also made lists of questions that I thought they might ask, and wrote down what answers I might give. I didn’t give those answers word-for-word but it really helped to have thought about it before hand. I also decided to just be as much my normals self as possible (without the cussing, though. :) ) It worked!

      Best of luck to you!

  25. Applesauced*

    There’s a leadership workshop starting at my office that I was really excited to apply for… but once I saw the application, it says applicants should have a minimum 10 years work experience, and 2 at this company. I have 7 years total and 1.5 here.
    Is that close enough? If there any harm to applying? The application isn’t very onerous – 3 short answers about why you’re interested, your experience, and your interpretation of a philosophy/buzzword at the office.

    1. Rincat*

      I’d apply! They may have limited seating or something but it’s not an entire job, so I’d go ahead. Good luck!

    2. Saviour Self*

      I would apply, what’s the worst that can happen? To me that sounds close enough and 10yr/2yr is really specific.

    4. It's me*

      Definitely close enough that it won’t be seen as crazy or out of touch for you to apply.

    5. BPT*

      I would actually ask whoever is in charge of the workshop and just make sure its ok. Or at least mention in your answer about why you’re interested that “I know you don’t have the exact years, but feel I’d be a good fit anyway because X. ”

      I would definitely think you’re qualified enough and they probably won’t care, but mostly I’d be a little worried about being seen as not following directions. If it’s for a job application, there’s really no harm in applying while not meeting every qualification. For a leadership workshop for your company, they might be a little more strict, and since your reputation matters there, I’d want to make sure I didn’t mess up by applying.

      I’d also just be a little worried about ending up like the LW who signed herself up for a senior executive conference because she thought it would be beneficial. Not that you’d end up in the same position, but I’d just want to make sure that they aren’t seeing this as something available for people at a minimum level in the company.

  26. Menacia*

    Well, instead of facing with your front or your back to the door, can you sit sideways so you still have your peripheral view, but an not openly facing one? That might cut down on you noticing people looking at you when they walk by.

    I work in a cubicle that faces the main traffic area and I guess I’ve grown used to people looking at me when they pass by so it does not bother me. I also have dual monitors, so that affords me some privacy.

    1. Menacia*

      Not sure how this became a separate posting as it was a reply to Saviour Self above. I have reposted my reply under their thread, so this can be removed as needed.

  27. Big10Professor*

    My leg is in a cast*, and I’ve been mostly working from home, but I do have some consulting client meetings from time to time. Is it okay that I’m wearing a gym shoe on the good foot? I don’t want to look unprofessional, I really need the ankle support while I’m getting around on crutches. The rest of my attire is business appropriate skirts or dresses.

    *I got it put on the day that AAM ran the letter about a penis drawing on a cast, and thus, when the nurse offered me a color choice, I went with black.

      1. Agile Phalanges*

        I think she’s asking about the footwear on the “good” foot. But I’m pretty sure you’re exempted from any normal dress code requirements for your bottom half when your leg/foot is in a cast. I mean, be as professional as you CAN, but between the extra weight-bearing your “good” foot is doing when you’re on crutches, and the need for good ankle support you mention, I think an athletic shoe on that foot is completely acceptable. And LOL at going with black. :-) (I suppose if you’re in a super conservative industry and meeting with a client or whatever that you’re REALLY trying to impress, you could commute in a comfortable shoe and change into a dressier shoe just prior to the meeting…)

      2. Anony Moose*

        +1 And having just been freed from crutches, you will need the ankle support and a solid shoe that can handle twisting/shuffling/being jumped on on the good foot. I tried wearing dressy sandals one day on my good foot and regretted it every time I had to maneuver in any way other than straight ahead.

    2. Amber Rose*

      I don’t think anyone’s going to look at your leg in a cast and judge you for some alternative footwear! Most people are not such jerks.

    3. Pwyll*

      I work in big finance where everyone is expected to wear fancy suits every day. One of my coworkers was in a leg cast and would wear sneakers or padded shoes with his suit and no one batted an eyelash (well, except to ask how he’s feeling). If you really feel bad about it, perhaps a black athletic shoe? But I don’t think anyone will mind either way.

    4. Artemesia*

      I would wear a black unobtrusive gym shoe and not a white one or one of those neon color jobbies. If you are wearing slacks it will be totally unremarkable. Even with a skirt it will be perfectly understandable that footwear is a problem in your situation. But you want to go with unobtrusive.

      1. Marisol*

        Building on this comment, I bought some nurse shoes to wear while dealing with plantar fasciitis (a soft-tissue foot injury). I work in a corporate environment and wore business casual clothes. Think the shoes were black but they make various neutral colors. They were ugly as hell! But a notch better than tennies.

    5. Ashley*

      I did when I was on crutches, but we are somewhat informal. If it is a super important client meeting you might bring and nice flat to change into right before the meeting.

    6. Argh!*

      Get one that’s solid black, or invest in orthopedic ugly but professional-looking shoes. Someone would have to look closely to see that it’s not “professional” shoewear.

  28. the.kat*

    My non-profit has a good relationship with several consultants whom we’ve hired to assist us over the last few years. Several of them have mentioned in front of my boss and to me directly that my work is really, really good. While they could be just trying to be kind, I tend to believe that they are honest when they say that other companies have asked about who our graphic designer is and whether they could hire me.

    So my question is, how do I leverage these relationships? I’m not looking for a new job right now, but if things change and I start to look for a new job, can I talk to these consultants or will they feel like they have to tell my boss/the company? Has anyone had a connection this way help them find another job? How did they not burn bridges at their current workplace?

    1. LKW*

      Hook up with them on linked in or just keep them in your contacts list. Ping them every so often with a friendly hello to manage the relationship. If you’re open to contract work or freelance work let them know that – and that it has to be within the boundaries of any other agreement you have with your current employer.

      I highly doubt they would tell your employer if you’ve contacted them about work. I certainly haven’t when I’ve been in this situation.

      1. the.kat*

        Thanks! I’m doing all the relationship management that I can, and it’s going very well, I just wasn’t sure about whether or not they’d be obligated to tell my boss if I started looking elsewhere.

  29. Insurance Geek*

    A few weeks ago, someone posted the name of a site were you can market yourself/list yourself for freelance work. Anyone remember it or reccomend a good one?

    1. SophieChotek*

      I don’t recall the site/specific thread from a few weeks ago, but UpWork comes to mind.

  30. AnonForToday*

    Question about US Social Security Numbers and employment: I am a US Citizen, and was issued a Social Security number when I was 16 (this was in the 1970’s). I still have the original paper card. I was married, and my name changed, and when I used to get mailed statements from Social Security, they reflected that name change, so they know who I am. Fast forward to today. My employer requested a copy of my Social Security card, not the number, which they had, but the physical card. When I sent it, they said I have to go to the Social Security office and get a new card with my married name on it because of homeland security regulations.

    I have been working for over 35 years, and no one has ever asked me for the physical card. I believe the number is enough? I’m just a non-exempt worker at a US based company.

    What’s worse is since I’m non-exempt, I either have to make up the time spent at the Social Security office or use my paid vacation time. I can’t make an appointment, it’s first come, first served, so it’s hard to tell how long I’ll have to sit there to fill out the forms.

    Is this really true? I pushed back to HR but they insist I have to have a paper copy with my married name on it. If they insist, and it’s not really a requirement, I think they should at least cover my time to go do this. Any suggestions?

    1. KiteFlier*

      I’m not sure why your employer would ask for your social security card unless you are a new employee that they need to verify is eligible to work in the US for your I-9. In that case, yes, they do need the actual document and not just the number/a photocopy. I’m not sure about the name change, though – I’ve accepted SS cards with the employee’s maiden name only, because they also provided a photo ID with their current legal name.

      1. AnonForToday*

        I also provided a copy of my current driver’s license, with my name and address, which hasn’t changed since I was hired in 2002. I’m not a new employee.

      2. Wheezy Weasel*

        For I-9 verification, I know a passport can be accepted as well. I know you might not want to push back again to HR, but do they need your actual, physical card and nothing else will be acceptable, or is that just their preferred and usual method of verifying citizenship and employment eligibility? I’m not an expert in the employment area, but I am an expert in pushing back on people’s difficult requests where I suspect they are misinformed or too lazy to further investigate alternatives.

      3. Natalie*

        It’s worth noting that other documents can be provided to prove the citizenship prong of an I-9, such as a birth certificate, and an employer cannot discriminate among documents allowed by the I-9 list.

          1. CityMouse*

            Same here. It feels safer somehow? Probably because I am used to carrying it around from travelling.

          2. Natalie*

            I use my passport, too, just because it’s easier – I only need the one document, and I know it’s all current and won’t cause any issues. (For example, my first name is misspelled on my SS card, but since it’s correct in the SSA records and I never use it, I’ve never bothered to get it corrected.)

        2. Jen A.*

          Exactly. If you choose to use your social security number as part of the I-9 verification it has to be the actual card and the employer would have the right to require that it match your legal name. However, you get to pick which documents you use for the verification (the last page of the I-9 has a list of what is acceptable), it is not up to them.

      4. Shadow*

        I know sometimes the IRS can send employers flags that employer names/ss# they’re submitting don’t match their records

    2. Jax*

      For every new job I’ve had, I’ve had to supply my actual social security card, not just the number. When I hired students at the university I worked for, it was also a requirement to provide the physical social security card (which was a problem for some of them. Some of their parents wanted to keep it for safe keeping and they were from out of state.) I think it is pretty standard, if not the law, to require the physical social security card for new hire paperwork.

      1. Shadow*

        They can’t require ss card for employment. They have to give you other document options

        1. Kimberlee, Esq.*

          Yeah, but if you choose to have your SS card be one of the documents, the i9 requires employers to examine the physical document personally.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      If it’s mandatory for work and you’re non-exempt, can’t you just ask for the time spent in the Social Security office as overtime pay?

      I’m not sure what you’re asking about whether it’s “really true” or not. I also have never been asked for my Social Security card before (just the number), but I don’t think there are any laws saying your employer cannot require the physical card to be produced.

    4. Insurance Geek*

      It is for homeland security purposes. The name on the card needs to match the name in the system for I-9 purposes. There’s a chance your company is being audited so this is why it needs to be completed.

      1. Regular Lurker*

        Do you have a passport or other government ID? If this is for I9 purposes, there is a list of other documents that your HR should accept. However, the SS card is most common.

      2. Natalie*

        An I-9 does not require one present a social security card. You can document your citizenship or work authorization with other things (passport, birth certificate, work authorization , etc).

          1. Natalie*

            No, you don’t. There are a number of documents or combinations of documents that can be used to prove identity plus work authorization. For example, if you provide a current US passport, you have documented both items and are done. An employer cannot discriminate among documents (by, for example, requiring a drivers license and not accepting a passport) as long as the employee is fulfilling the requirements on the I9 form.

            I haven’t used my social security card since college, probably. I’m not even sure where it is.

            1. AvonLady Barksdale*

              I always used my passport too. I didn’t have my Social Security card until I was in my 30s, when my mom found it somewhere in her home while she was moving.

            2. Insurance Geek*

              Please dont mansplain or come at me, thanks. I work in HR/Benefits. I know what is needed.

              1. Natalie*

                Employers must accept any document an employee presents from the Lists of Acceptable Documents, as long as the document reasonably appears to be genuine and to relate to the employee. Employers must not:

                Demand that an employee show specific documents
                Ask to see employment authorization documents before an individual accepts a job offer
                Refuse to accept a document, or refuse to hire an individual, because a document will expire in the future
                Refuse to accept a receipt that is acceptable for Form I-9 purposes
                Demand a specific document when reverifying that an employee is authorized to work

                https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/employee-rights-resources/preventing-discrimination

              2. Natalie*

                Nertz, my reply had a link in it so it’s in moderation.

                I’m sorry you feel like I was being condescending. It wasn’t intentional, I was simply trying to be extremely clear in case we were misunderstanding each other.

                That said, you are simply wrong in your assertion of fact here. The link in my other reply is directly from the government, and is extremely clear that what you are describing is not allowed. If you are requiring people to bring specific documents for their I9 (other than the broad list provided by USCIS) you should probably stop, because you’re breaking the law. I find arguing about facts to be intensely boring, so that’s all I have to say about this!

                1. zora*

                  I think you two are talking past each other.

                  Insurance Geek seems to be making the point that if one of the documents the employee is providing is their Social Security Card, they do have to present the physical card.

                  Natalie is trying to point out that the company has to accept any documents that are acceptable for the I-9 form.

                  You are both right, you are just saying slightly different things.

          2. Dankar*

            If an SSN card was required for the I-9, my students would never be permitted to engage in practical training (which is part of the broader reason why it’s illegal to require a specific type of documentation beyond the acceptable categories provided by DHS and USCIS).

            I’m going to echo what Natalie said below–if you’re requiring one specific form of documentation, then you’re currently breaking the law.

    5. CityMouse*

      Everyone I know who has changed their name got a new Social Security card, including my mom, who got married in the 70s. I believe it is listed in most name change lists as one of the to dos. I would recommend doing it. I just looked it up online and the SSA uses the word “must” in relation in formally informing them and getting a new card. The rules may have changed over time but I would 100% file the form asap.

      1. PB*

        I was going to say this. When I changed my name, the first step was going to the Social Security office and getting a new card issued with my new name. I’m a US citizen, so it isn’t exclusively a Homeland Security issue.

        1. Insurance Geek*

          Homeland Security is part of it though. Even if you are a US Citizen, if your company is picked for SSN audit, you do need to provide a card that matches who you are to the SS system. Anything can be flagged for Homeland Security if names/dob/SSNs do not match.

      2. Not Karen*

        Thirded. You were supposed to get a new SS card when you changed your name.

        For the record, when I went it didn’t take long… maybe 1 hour at most.

        1. Pat Benetardis*

          Huh. That’s interesting. I’ve never heard that either. My name changed 20 years ago when I got married and I never changed my SS card. I still have my original 1970s card. Whenever I’ve used the SS card as ID I have also presented an original marriage certificate as evidence of name change and that has been sufficient (including passport). My company had an audit a few years ago and I had to verify my I-9 but I can’t remember what I used.

      3. ThatGirl*

        Yeah, I had to change my Social Security card before I could get a new driver’s license, for instance.

        1. Arjay*

          Yes. I had to get a new Social Security card before I could change my driver’s license, which was necessary to change my health insurance, bank accounts, etc.

      4. Jennifer Walters*

        Yeah, I changed my name last year and went to the Social Security office to change it. I got there 20 minutes before opening, there were about 10 people ahead of me, and I was in and out in less than 30 minutes. Though, they do mail the new card to you, so you’ll have to wait 3-5 business days for the new one with your new name.

    6. Saviour Self*

      I agree with the others – upon hire you have to supply two original documents (or 1 if it is a “List A” item on the I-9 form) within the first three days at the job. Assuming you’re not a new hire, have they told you why they need the document?

      I’m pretty sure you can submit a request online and/or receive a copy in the mail and not waste a day at the SS office but that may vary by state.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Nope, you definitely have to go in person and provide ID to prove that you’re you.

    7. Malibu Stacey*

      I do the I9 e-verify at my company – I need to see the actual SS card or receipt for your lost or stolen card within 48 hours of your arrival on your first day.

    8. edj3*

      At my company, you must provide physical documentation for your I-9, no exceptions. Apparently, you used to be able to just say what your SSN was, but not any more. Makes me wonder if your company has gone through a similar change. Still, what a hassle for you :(

    9. Bea W*

      I’ve been working since 1988 and have always had to supply a physical Social Security card. I don’t know if it is a legal requirement to have a physical card, especially in modern times when everything can be electronically verified, but there very well could be a recent change in federal regulations. I agree it is a huge PIA to a card with your current legal name, but you might want to look into doing it at some point anyway just to have it for future requests.

      If you do have to supply a card with your current legal name, maybe your employer will temporarily accept your old card with some other proof of name change or the proof from the mailed statements.

      1. Bea W*

        I see other people have posted while I was writing!

        That said when I read e-verify I had vague recollections of there being other documents to confirm your identity and authorization to work in the uS that can be accepted. There is a list of acceptable documents on the uscis dot gov website (slash i-9-central). If you have a valid US passport which is on the “A document” list, you shouldn’t have to supply a physical SS card.

    10. Zinnia*

      If this is for an I-9, they need an original document proving your right to work in the US, but it doesn’t need to be your social security card. There’s a whole list of qualifying documents.

    11. Government Worker*

      For the I-9 there are a variety of documents you can submit, but they have to be paper originals, not photocopies or scans. If you have a passport that should be enough even without the social security card, and there are other options that may work for proving eligibility to work in the US.

      Google the form and take a look. If you have alternative documentation to the social security card, offer that to your employer and see what they say.

    12. Dolphn Girl*

      Celebrating my 3rd anniversary at work today and I had to provide an actual card from SS on my first day I live in NYC so I went downtown fairly early ( 830am) and was in and out in less than 45 minutes. Not sure how to answer the time question as I got mine before I started. If they advised you before you got hired that time is on you. If they informed you after you started they should cover your time.

      1. Alice Ulf*

        Seconding this advice, since I recently had to go to the local SS office about possible identity theft. If you do end up having to go, get there a few minutes before the office actually opens and check the website to make sure you have all the documentation you might need. I did have to wait in a (down the sidewalk, yay) line for about 10-15 minutes, but if your local office is anything like mine, every employee there will be all about moving people through as quickly as possible. I was in and out in less than an hour.

        I did have to use PTO, but my issue had nothing to do with a work requirement. Unfortunately I don’t have any advice about that.

    13. CAA*

      Not sure why your HR is insisting on a physical card. It may be that they don’t use e-verify or that there’s some mismatch in your information there. Or they might be trying to make sure their documentation is complete and are just confused about the actual I-9 requirements. You need to ask them what they’re going to use the card for in order to figure out why they need it.

      SSA does let you apply to have your card replaced online if you live in a state that has an approved ID. It sounds like a replacement is what you need since they do have your name correct in the system. You can see which states qualify for online requests at ssa.gov/ssnumber.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        We use e-verify and we’re required to see the original documents when we complete the I-9.

    14. anon24*

      Are you sure you have to go to the social security office to get a new card? I got married 2 years ago and really didn’t want to drive into the city to go to my office, but there was an option where I could mail my passport, marriage license, and old social in and they sent me my documents back with a new card about 1-2 weeks later. Easier to send it via certified mail from the post office than take all the time to drive in. But I don’t know if that’s an option where you are or if you have the time to wait.

    15. Michelle*

      You can download the form online and fill it out so you don’t have to do so at the SS office. I think it also has a list of documents you might/should bring with you.

      I have always been asked for the card, not just the number. I realize it’s a hassle, but it’s probably best to just go ahead and get one. I don’t think you can insist they pay for your time at the SS office, but you can always ask.

    16. JayeRaye*

      Regardless of whether or not HR lets you bring in other documents, you should get an updated social security card. All but 9 or 10 US states require a social security card with your correct name, a birth certificate or passport, and proof of any name change in order to get a new or renewed driver’s license or state ID. You may have been able to previously renew your ID by mail, but with the REAL ID act being followed in most states you will need to provide the above documentation eventually. It’s also worth noting that the residents of the states that do not follow REAL ID will have to provide extra documentation to pass through airport security starting in January 2018. I don’t know what that documentation will be, but I’m willing to bet that a fully correct social security card is one of them.

      1. Natalie*

        Oh, that’s good to know. My state is one of the one’s that is not currently REAL ID compliant (although I think they might have finally passed something).

    17. AnonForToday*

      Thanks everyone! I tried to go online and apply but was blocked by the security questions. Apparently I missed one, although I have no idea which one, and I tried multiple times, waiting for 24 hours between each try. I don’t remember if I applied for or received a new card (that was over 30 years ago). I don’t have a passport (no need, as I don’t travel nor could I afford to do so, sighs). I am going to take time off and just go to the office, and be there when it opens, and hope for the best.

      1. Insurance Geek*

        It’s a really quick process! Try going mid week-a Wednesday or Thursday morning will have the least amount of waiting time.

      2. Been there*

        Just fill out the pdf before you go and bring it with you. It took me 10 minutes to get processed. If you don’t,they may stop paying you completely. I had it happen with federal work study once. My middle initial somehow was added to the SS system (no one ever explained how…) and I got flagged as “not matching” the employee on file and couldn’t get paid until it was fixed.

          1. Starbuck*

            It’s necessary. Businesses shouldn’t be allowed to get away with taking advantage of undocumented immigrants to cut costs.

          2. Observer*

            Not entirely true. I know when my workplace notched up their documentation and it was at least a decade ago.

    20. msroboto*

      I just looked at the social security site for name changes and it says you can’t do it online BUT you can do it in person or through the mail. Would mail be an option for you or is this very time sensitive. You might have a case for them to pay you if you can point out you could do it through snail mail but they need it sooner (THEY being the key word) so they should pay you for going to social security.
      Good luck.

    21. Liane*

      If you are using your SS card for official purposes, it has to be in your current legal name. This has been true for longer than I9 forms have been required (1986).

    22. Observer*

      You may not have to go to the office. Check the Social Security site – you can probably fill out the forms and submit them by (snail) mail.

    23. nom*

      That’s super frustrating, you have my sympathies!

      I recently started a new job and also had to provide my physical social security card. Not for the I-9: I always use my passport for that, and can confirm that it one of the accepted documents (I’ve never had a problem using the passport instead of SS card – I think it helps that the list of acceptible documents is p3 of the I9 paper form). But apparently payroll here *insists* on a copy of the social security card. I even pushed back on this, as I was in the process of moving and wasn’t sure I could find the actual card in the boxes. I was told that if I wanted to get a paycheck, I’d better find the actual card within a week of starting (luckily I did). I still suspect it’s due to outdated/misinformed payroll policy, not a legal requirement, but it’s possible that it’s state law that I’m unaware of (moved to a new state).

      Anyway, the point is that the physical card isn’t the only option for an I9, but maybe your employer is implementing (or finally checking compliance with and documentation for) a different policy –
      albeit an annoying one. Getting an updated, correct card is also a good idea.

      As for REAL ID issues, I vote for just using a passport. Seriously, having a passport solves most issues – and I’ve always found it a little unusual that in the US, relatively few people have them.

    24. Framing Queen*

      A lot of folks, HR or otherwise, confuse company policies with law.

      Despite what the I9 says, I had one HR rep refuse to accept my passport, saying I also needed my social security card. However, she said my card was fake (because it didn’t look like hers). This, despite the fact I had the mailer it came in from the 60s.

      I went down to the social security administration office and they had a good old laugh. They gave me a letter saying this was indeed a valid original card, and confirmed my number.

      Back to the office. HR wouldn’t accept the letter, only a replacement card, which I did not have yet (had to be mailed). Told me I would have to be let go at the end of the first week if I couldn’t provide the card. And with no pay for the week worked as they couldn’t set up payroll without a valid card.

      Ended up having my director talk the CEO into a special waiver until the card came.

  31. Librarian in waiting*

    I commented a couple months ago (March?) about interviewing for a job at my former library and if it was problematic being Facebook friends with members of the hiring team.

    I did the best I possibly could at the interview and felt good about it. Ultimately, I did not get the job. There ended up being two positions and after being told I was still in consideration for the 2nd position, I received an email telling me I didn’t get it because they hired someone with more experience. A week later I received a phone call from the AD telling me that they actually decided not to hire for the position at that time, but would repost it during summer and that they really want me to apply. They said that the hiring committee was really impressed and stressed again to reapply.

    The position has posted. It is the exact same announcement, word for word. I haven’t done anything particularly noteworthy that I can add to my resume since I applied in March.

    Do I apply? And if I do, can I use the same cover letter or do I need to change it?

    I want the job and want to be encouraged by the AD calling me to explain the change in situation, but I also know from experience that the PTB at this library would rather tell people what that want to hear in order to avoid a difficult situation. I am leaning toward applying because what will it hurt except costing a couple hours of my time.

    Thoughts?

    1. KiteFlier*

      I would apply and reach out to the AD directly to tell them that you saw it was reposted, and per their earlier suggestion, have applied.

      1. Cassandra*

        Concur. This sounds like Happy-Fun Workplace Bureaucracy got in your way, rather than anything that reflects poorly on you. Go ahead and give it your best shot.

    2. CityMouse*

      I agree. Definitely apply and drop a line to the person you spoke to before. Given the communication I do not think you need to add anything new, except maybe toss a sentence in about applying before in your cover letter just so it is not 100% identical.

    3. It's me*

      I would reference your experience in the interview process the first time through in your cover letter with the new application – was there something you learned/saw through that process that made you even more interested in the position, etc etc.
      Your previous experience interviewing is a positive in this situation, since you were encouraged to re-apply, so you don’t want to miss the opportunity to leverage that, and the natural place to do so is in your cover letter IMO.

    4. a nony mouse*

      In my library system, the only way to get a job is to keep applying for every cycle of hiring. It’s a govt. position and totally normal.

    5. AnotherLibrarian*

      Apply. You lose nothing. I would look at the cover letter and rewrite it. It has been months. Surely, there are new things you might want to share.

      I would also, as others have suggested, reach out to the AD. Something very casual in email would be best. After all, just because they suggested you applied doesn’t make you a shoe in.

      Good luck!

  32. Foreign Octupus*

    I’ve been teaching English as as foreign and second language for the last 12 months and I haven’t enjoyed teaching children at the academies (mainly because the parents use my classes as babysitting for their children who don’t want to be there) and I’m finally going freelance. My question is this – how do people who work for themselves, or who rely on generating their own customer base, find the motivation to do it? What advice do you have for someone who gets distracted easily and struggles to commit to a timetable?

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. Kowalski! Options!*

      Word of mouth – that’s how I got my best ESL clients (though I was doing one-on-one classes with adult learners, so the dynamics were a little different). I got students to pay for classes in advance, and if they referred a potential student who did end up signing up and paying for classes, I’d give the old students a couple of classes for free. It was a lifesaver during the summer months, when things slowed down.

      1. Foreign Octupus*

        I am concerned about the summer months (for next year) and I’m trying not to panic too much. Fortunately, I’m taking over some students from a friend who’s going travelling for a few months so I don’t have to source my first clients. Thanks for the advice.

    2. Simone R*

      There are some online sites for tutoring freelancers. I had a friend who did varsity tutors and liked it. That might be a good way to get started!

    3. msmorlowe*

      As someone who just can’t work from home, I can say that freelance teaching is very different and you won’t really struggle to commit to a timetable: for me, it worked the same as teaching in a school, only I had more control over who my students were and what I could teach in a class.

      1. Foreign Octupus*

        That’s a large part of the reason I’m going freelance. I’ve hated having to teach students who were disruptive and rude (not just the children, but a number of adults as well) and it always frustrated that I couldn’t refuse to teach them.

    4. TiffIf*

      Not really about freelancing, but an option you might want to explore.
      My brother-in-law is an ESL teacher. For a 5 years he taught in a high school in the US that had a large immigrant/non english speaking population. He liked the teaching, but got fed up with the politics of the school system, so he and my sister decided to explore other opportunities.

      There are a LOT of international programs that will pay very nicely for qualified ESL teachers and lots of different options for teaching different age groups–my brother-in-law worked with one program which was all adult learners for business use and another which was high school level ESL and another which was university ESL classes.

      Many programs will pay your travel and relocation fees, depending on which country you go to the program can also be responsible for housing costs; some programs will pay travel and relocation fees for any family/dependents coming with you.

      My sister and her family lived 5 years abroad before deciding to return to the US (literally they returned 7 days ago). They loved it. It was such an amazing experience for all of them–including their two children–one of whom was born abroad (he’s 3 now and this is his first time seeing his native country).

      1. Foreign Octupus*

        That is an idea I’ve looked into for more ‘exotic’ destinations such as Japan but I’m already settled in Spain for the time being. I’m considering doing something like that in the next few years once I’ve really cemented the Spanish language in my brain.

        Do you need to be an actual qualified teacher though? I’m qualified ESL but I’ve never qualified as a teacher so that I could teach in secondary/high school.

        1. TiffIf*

          I believe it depends on the program and country you are teaching in. My brother-in-law had a teaching degree and a Masters degree in applied linguistics.

  33. PersonalLifeWorkLife*

    Here is my rather odd question and I am hoping I can hear from others who have been there. It’s been a really rough summer (honestly rough year) for me. I am in couple’s counseling with my spouse. We meet weekly at a time that involves me having to leave work about 20 minutes early. I’ve been able to avoid telling my boss the reason for cutting out saying only “I have an appointment” – and it’s a slow time of year. But as this continues I worry that I will need more of a reason that he understands?

    Also, this counseling is helping me to see that the relationship very likely needs to end for my own happiness and sanity. So I predict I will need to take some days off in the next few months to move. Then very likely having to take some early time to take my children to a local divorce group therapy for kids.

    So there are a lot of things coming up that will affect my attendance and my work. My boss is divorced himself (and kind of bitter about it) although it happened years ago. He’s also a bit of a loudmouth and an unintentional jerk. I could see him making comments like “Well, what do we know? We both can’t keep a spouse, ha ha” – things like that.

    However, I feel like I need to say something as this all unfolds? For those of you going through this, how much did you share? And in what way?

    1. AnotherAlison*

      I left early for counseling for about a year, and only told my boss I had an appointment. I felt weird about it, but I never did elaborate. We ended up staying together, and I changed departments about the same time we ended counseling.

      For the future absences, if you have the PTO to take, I wouldn’t necessarily feel obligated to say anything. If you have to ask for special accommodations, then you might have to give some details. He might surprise you and be more sensitive about this than his day-to-day behavior would indicate.

      On the flip side, I had a coworker show up at work, change her email and cube name tag back to her maiden name, and no one at all knew anything was going on before that. She was only ~23, so some people asked her if she just got married, so that was awkward and a mark in the column to let people know a little about what is going on.

      1. PersonalLifeWorkLife*

        Thank you. Yes, I realize I’ll have to say something because a few of my co-workers have met my husband. But I have also worked with people who talk about it almost too much. Like “Great, Gayle. Thanks for letting me know that you’re getting a divorce because you couldn’t handle your sexless marriage with your spouse after he ran up $55,000 in gambling debt. But I’m happy to hear that after 2 weeks alone you are dating again.”

    3. edj3*

      I don’t know that you need to get into the specifics with your manager. You might let him more broadly that you are dealing with some things in your personal life, without going into more detail.

      Speaking as a manager, I don’t need to know all the details when my direct reports have issues in their personal lives. I do need to know that they are taking care of the situation and of themselves. That way, I know it’s not about hating the job–make sense?

      1. PersonalLifeWorkLife*

        That makes sense. Yes. And with two kids, saying I have “an appointment” could easily be something for one of them. Four years ago when I started I had to leave early every other week to take one of my children to physical therapy for about a year.

        I suppose if it does come to divorce, I can figure out a way to say what’s happening and that I’m taking care of it. I feel that I will need to mention it but I don’t want to make a big deal about it.

      2. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

        I agree with this. I’m a manager, and employees tend to give me way more personal information than I need to know. I trust my folks, so “dealing with some personal issues” is really all I would need to know.

    4. Trix*

      For about six months, I was doing an appointment once a week or once every other week with my therapist. For three of those six months, I was also doing a group therapy session once a week, so there were weeks with two appointments. I tried to schedule my personal one as early or late as possible to minimize interruption to my work day, and the group session time thankfully meant I only had to leave about 15 minutes early (of course, I was regularly working an hour or two or three past the time I was technically “off,” but that’s another issue).

      What worked for me was letting my boss know that I was working on some health stuff, nothing he needed to worry about, but stuff that was important I take care of, and I’d have reoccurring appointments for the next few months. I let him know that I would make sure they were on my calendar (just as blocked off time, no details) so he would be aware of my schedule. He said he had no problem with it, as long as my work didn’t suffer (which we both knew it wouldn’t), but suggested I speak with HR about intermittent FMLA, just as a way to have something officially documented in case my coworkers started complaining, or he was suddenly replaced by a jerk.

      That was the level of detail I was comfortable with providing, and it worked well for me. My friend coworkers knew the details, and I wouldn’t have denied it if anyone asked, but I didn’t feel the need to share beyond “health stuff that you don’t need to worry about, but I do need to take care of.”

      1. PersonalLifeWorkLife*

        Thank you – this is good advice.

        Yes, I am doing personal counseling once a week or every other week. That I try to arrange during a lunch break and usually mark it as “lunch” on my calendar. The couple’s counseling comes at the end of the day so I just have to leave about 15 minutes early. If the separation occurs, I will then be replacing the couple’s counseling with the therapy for the kids most likely. So I will very likely have two appointments for at least the next six months or so to get us through the holidays. “Health stuff” would be a good excuse.

        1. SansaStark*

          This conversation is very timely for me as I’m going to have this convo with my boss this afternoon. A friend who is a manager of a large department counseled me to just refer to it as a recurring medical appointment (which it is!) and just talk about what I’m doing to mitigate the impact on the department. She said that if the manager pushed back, taking intermittent FMLA might also be an option worth exploring.

    5. paul*

      I got a note from “Dr. So & So” that stated I was going for reoccurring treatment (with zero details) when I was going to therapy? Actually, got something similar for physical therapy years after the counseling therapy too.

      I was a little more open with my boss and coworkers than the note was, but the therapist office was more than willing to give me pretty non descript official documentation. See if yours will?

      1. PersonalLifeWorkLife*

        That’s a great idea – my therapist is really cool so I think she’d easily agree to do something like that it if it would help me out.

        1. Lemon Zinger*

          Be aware that your boss may Google your therapist’s name and deduce what those appointments are for.

    6. Agile Phalanges*

      If your boss is a bit of a blabbermouth, I wouldn’t share with him until you’re ready to share with all your other co-workers, and the world at large. In which case, you have “an appointment” and he doesn’t need to know more. If he really presses, you can make up some extensive dental work, or bloodwork that needs to be followed up on every week/month/whatever.

      Once you are ready to share, if he makes crass comments, those are on HIM, and people who know him won’t be likely to associate you with his rude comments. Hopefully.

      I’m sorry you’re going through this, it’s never fun.

    7. Aitch Arr*

      First off, I’ve been where you are and I sympathize. I’m now 5 years out and don’t regret for a moment that I ended the marriage.

      A mental health appointment is still a medical appointment. I’d keep your explanation to that. I still see my therapist every 3 months, but at one point it was once a week. That fell under intermittent FMLA, as would the appointments for your children. I’d talk to your HR department.

      Good luck and hang in there.

      1. amy l*

        I was in counseling with my (still) spouse for years. I met with our counselor twice a month. Once for counselor and I, once for counselor, spouse and myself. My boss at the time was super cool about it. I only told her it was marriage counseling. As things were very unpredictable, I felt better that she knew a little about what was going on. She advised to put ” private appointment” on Outlook. She would know exactly what it meant, but others not so much. I was hesitant, at first to share something so deeply personal. At the time I felt embarrassed and oddly “defective.” I finally got to the point where I just had to tell myself not to sweat it. I came to accept the fact that it is a health issue. I needed to seek treatment just as any one would for any health issue. I don’t know if she ” blabbed” to any co – workers. I got to the point where I just didn’t care about it as much. It was the truth and I had (and still have) nothing to be ashamed of. Best wishes for finding a healthy resolution.

        1. PersonalLifeWorkLife*

          @amy – yes, right now I’m putting either “appointment” or “lunch” on my calendar. For some of the lunch appointments I have put “chiro appointment” just to throw people off a bit more.

          Yes, I have my times where I am feeling very defective. I mean, I’m essentially in two hours of therapy a week – one for myself, one for couple – and it’s hard not to start thinking “Amy I crazy?” and the answer is probably “Yeah, a little bit – and that’s OK because I’m working to get better.”

          Thank you for your good wishes.

      2. PersonalLifeWorkLife*

        That is good to hear! I honestly have reached out to a few friends / acquaintances who have been through this and they all say what you say – it’s better on the other side. No regrets. That’s helpful.

    8. Clever Name*

      Ugh. Your boss sounds like a buffoon. I’m in the process of divorcing my husband, and I told my boss pretty much right away. I wanted her to be aware in case I seemed off and to explain upcoming appointments. My boss is an awesome person, and she’s been really supportive. I’ve told certain coworkers, and word has gotten around a bit. I don’t really mind, as I’ve always been fairly open about major stuff going on in my personal life (like when my son was going through major behavioral issues). I’m normally upbeat about it and don’t complain or dwell (I save that for my friends).

      For telling my boss, I just told her briefly while I was in her office. I’ve told other coworkers I work closely with if it seemed like it wouldn’t be weird or if it came up sort of organically. Do you think your boss would honor your wishes if you asked him to not share??

      1. PersonalLifeWorkLife*

        Clever Name: I could try. He is a buffoon and I don’t think he does these things with malice. He’s just self-deprecating and then pulls others into it and has no social skills.

        But yes, when the rubber finally meets the road and I am moving out, I realize I will have to tell him something.

        I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know even if you know it’s the right thing, it’s hard as hell some days.

    9. Anon16*

      Is this something that’s needed to be concerned about? I leave a little early on a specific day (once a week) for a therapy session that begins at 5. I just tell my boss I have to leave a little early on that day and no one’s asked any questions or minded. I stay late occasionally or skip lunch so it makes up for the lost time anyway. Is this something we’re even supposed to worry about?

      1. Jan*

        It depends on the job. At my last job, literally no one would care. At the job prior, I’d be written up. At this job? I’d have to let my boss know in advance, especially for something weekly.

  34. Kowalski! Options*

    This is work-related, but it’s not really a question, just kind of a shout-out (and yes, I will tell people this to their faces, not just post pseudonymously on a forum they probably don’t read……. :) )
    I have great bosses. Amazing bosses. My bosses are really cool. I’ve just been through an especially trying two months: I lost my father in May (had 5 days of bereavement leave), and a week and a bit ago, my significant other lost his mother. SO and I aren’t married and don’t live together, so I can’t legally take bereavement leave for his mother’s death, under the terms of our collective agreement. No problem, said my bosses. Work from home, do whatever you need to do, and we’ll work out the paperwork and forms later. They diverted some of my work load, so I wouldn’t have to worry about things while I was away. In the end, I only needed a couple of days, but those days ended up being a lifesaver.
    My bosses rock.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      That’s great! It’s so refreshing to hear stories of good bosses. For the record, my boss is amazing too!

    2. Friday*

      I’m so sorry for your losses, and that’s wonderful that you have understanding bosses. It makes a world of difference. One of my best bosses ever granted me a bereavement day for my MIL’s fiance’s military burial. And a year later, I needed a bereavement week for my own dad’s passing, granted it no problem. She let me work from home/his bedside as needed also and heavily encouraged me to also take time off beforehand as needed. Truly the best.

    3. Sparkly Librarian*

      Mine, too. Doesn’t it make everything easier knowing they will treat you with consideration and compassion?

  35. Incognito*

    I want to thank everyone who responded to me last week. I gave notice at my current job and am looking forward to some RnR while I continue my search. I have one interview that was already scheduled, but after that I might break entirely from actively searching for a few weeks to recharge.

    I wasn’t sure if I would be freaking out over knowing I would not have a paycheck coming in, but surprisingly I am really excited!

  36. Electric Hedgehog*

    So, my dad is a manager in the government, and he has repeatedly expressed opinions to me that are pretty legally problematic. For example he believes hat women shouldn’t dress in tight clothes, skirts and dresses that are cut high, blouses with low necklines, or noticeable makeup. He thinks that women dress to intentionally distract men with their sexy sexy bodies.As his daughter, I know that his definitions of ‘revealing’ clothing are really, really not in line with modern standards or fashions. I believe that he has brought this up with at least one female direct report, and may have had a demotion in relation to this problem. He is not shy about expressing his viewpoint on this (or his opinions regarding trans people, guns, homosexuality, immigrants, religion, or racial issues) on facebook. I have talked to him about it, including using the phrase ‘textbook definition of legally actionable hostile work environment’, and many of my siblings have had similar conversations. He retires in the next couple years. Is there anything else I can do to help him see that this is something that he must change to maintain a good professional reputation (and added bonus, be a better person)?

    1. CityMouse*

      While that sucks and is awful, given his age, I think he is unlikely to change. As he is about to retire, I doubt anything will happen to him, it has gone on this long and government disciplinary actions can take time and paperwork, especially for someone so long term, they might just encourage him to retire sooner. It sucks but I thi k you won’t get anywhere with him at all. I feel very bad for his employees but it is up to them to complain.

    2. Lora*

      People can change when they are older – my grandfather changed his politics in his 90s. But, he was also sort of forced to in the assisted living home where there were lots of women and people of color and so forth in the dining room with him and his other option was eating all his meals completely ostracized. He did genuinely change his mind, he just wasn’t absolutely forced to deal with reality before then.

      If your dad is in his 60s, I can tell you it’s not an age thing: when my mother (who is 75) was young, miniskirts and smoking pot and beatniks, followed by hippies and Woodstock and so forth, were considered the height of cool. He was out of touch with modern times even when he was in his 20s. It’s very much a life choice he made, not just being a product of his time.

      I think you’ve done what you can. I know it gets tiresome to be “actually, no” 100% of the time with family. Captain Awkward has a lot to say about this.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      You’ve talked to him and he’s already been demoted once over it? What makes you think there’s anything else you can do?

      1. Electric Hedgehog*

        I know you’re probably right, but it’s hard to see your loved ones struggle and suffer over something that is so avoidable, you know? If there’s any way t possibly get thru to him, I’m willing to try.

      2. afiendishthingy*

        I was unclear on that detail – was HE demoted over it, or did he actually demote the female report?

    4. Solidus Pilcrow*

      I have older relatives with similar opinions. I’ve had limited success in appealing to their self-interest of not getting fired and blaming the opposing political view. I’ve said something along the lines of “You better not say that at work/in public. The liberals will get all offended and you’ll be out of a job.”

      Not that this changes their beliefs any or stops them from sharing them with me, of course. It only lessens the workplace or social fallout.

    5. Aitch Arr*

      I’m sorry your dad’s a ‘misogynistic dinosaur’*, but his work reputation really isn’t your problem.

      I’d focus instead on how this is affecting your father-daughter relationship.

      * – M (Judi Dench) called James Bond this.

    6. Observer*

      If his employer – and workplace sanctions haven’t gotten him to the point of at least shutting up about his opinions, I highly doubt anything you could say would make a difference. Given that you and your siblings have tried, I think that this is one you need to leave be.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      “That’s not current thinking, Dad.” [Insert change of subject here.]

      I have a friend who comes out with stuff sometimes. In a flat voice, I say, “Times have changed, general thinking has changed on that.” I make sure my voice is flat to indicate that I am not doing a longer discussion.

      Over time I have notice that he has dropped some remarks from his talk. It did take time. And he is my friend not my father. So there is that.
      If you can find a single sentence to use as a go-to when you hear him say something this might be more effective than a longer discussion. Or you may find that he just does not say these things in front of you.

  37. Tina*

    Has anyone felt publicly shamed at work for what was a perceived racist/sexist/etc. behavior or comment? How do you repair relationships?

    Some context, I am the only White woman in my office. Most of the office is made up of Women of Color. I get along with all of them and respect them each as wonderful professionals and colleagues. I recently received feedback from my supervisor who said that many colleagues came to her and said I am condescending. I’ve taken this feedback to heart, as it is important I improve and repair relationships. She said I need to be mindful of my identities, and she thinks this may just be the way I am. I struggle to hear this comment about my character, I want to be an Ally and know I need to do a lot of self-work unpacking privilege and repairing relationships. I’m worried people made up their minds about me, thinking I’m the know-it-all White girl, who thinks she’s better than everyone else. I fear even if I change behaviors, I can’t control other people’s perceptions and they’ve already judged me as a certain type of way. I’m looking for advice and insights for how to move forward, how to seek forgiveness, and how to help create an environment where all people in the department feel appreciated, understood, and accepted.

    1. Backroads*

      The trick is to find the balance. You may be unintentionally saying stuff unawares, colleagues may be oversensitive, could be a bit of both.

      I think sincere apology goes a long way, and perhaps asking a trusted colleague to help you monitor.

    2. writelhd*

      I think it can always be a struggle to receive feedback about one’s character or interpersonal style that one doesn’t like or didn’t notice, no matter the situation. It’s often a lot harder to hear that kind of stuff than it is “you did this report wrong” or whatever. The ego hurts and all that. Sometimes it is really hard to see things about yourself that you’d wish weren’t true until someone tells you–while it can also be hard to even know if the feedback is accurate and true and worth acting on. Perhaps framing it that way in your mind–I’m receiving feedback on an interpersonal interaction issue and that is often a difficult thing for a human to deal with no matter the situation, could help alleviate the fears you’re holding.

      Also, you *can’t* control other people’s perceptions–you can only control yourself. Maybe accepting that as a reality, rather than a fear, helps you move on from it. But, in honestly taking feedback and trying to improve on it, some people are likely to notice you undertaking that journey.

    3. LCL*

      Mindful of identities? What does that even mean? That is BS doublespeak. And your supervisor is a tool, telling you something upsetting then saying never mind.
      Continue to be professional and courteous, and next time your supervisor brings it up agree that being condescending is a bad thing and can she provide specific examples so you can work on not being condescending.

      1. fposte*

        Is the supervisor saying never mind, though?

        I mean, I agree that this is super unhelpfully phrased and I’m not pleased with the manager either, but I would be uninclined to dismiss it just because of that, and I would not want to have a second conversation, wherein I said I didn’t do anything about the thing you told me was a problem.

      2. Tina*

        I followed up and asked her for specifics, she said she could not give me any. I asked how I could show improvement and she told me that she “would just know”. The only changes in behavior has been I don’t ask anyone for any help on anything, even if it’s their job. Instead, I stick to making small talk. I know at some point I will need to ask someone for something or to-do something and I worry that simply doing that is going to come off in a way I don’t intend. I feel like I’m walking on eggshells.

        1. fposte*

          Good for you for following up, and bad on her for being crappy about quantifying things.

          Honestly, I think finding some kind of external action for this would be really helpful for you, so you don’t just feel trapped into passivity. It would be nice for it to turn into a growth experience for you even if your job didn’t help you get that.

        2. Somniloquist*

          Is there a possibility that your manager is trying to get you off-balance for some reason? Based on this update, I’m a bit suspicious that it’s more about the manager and less about the coworkers.

          I don’t mean that you shouldn’t seek people’s input and collaborate with them. It’s just this non-clarification seems really personal.

      3. ThatGirl*

        To me “mindful of identities” means that for nearly every person of color, the world seems a little different than it does for most white people. That Tina should be mindful of how seemingly innocuous comments might come across. Now, I’m a fellow white person so I could be off-base here. But I don’t have a problem with the idea of being mindful of how other people see you and how your privilege informs things.

        1. Tina*

          Totally agree, and having been up until this point in an environment where most colleagues are White, I’ve not had to navigate this kind of workplace before. I just was also taken aback because nothing in my interactions with my colleagues led me to believe they feel this way about me. I think it is hard because if someone feels slighted/offended by me, they don’t tell me but instead tell my boss, I’m now feeling like I need to rethink every interaction I have with others because it is being received in a way I do not intend. It has put a lot of stress on me, and I just wish we had an environment where people felt they could call-out someone after a micro-aggression and at the same time, they could help that person learn, move forward, and do better next time. But this means having a belief that people change, forgiveness, and compassion from all parties.

          1. Kimberlee, Esq.*

            One thing that is helpful for me in similar situations is to remind yourself that your intentions don’t really matter here. Ultimately, if you say something offensive (or whatever), you had an impact on a person. Good intentions don’t remove or mitigate negative impacts. It’s also helpful to keep in mind that many people experience the same microaggressions over and over again, and not only is it exhausting to call them all out, it can be politically and socially fraught; people are honestly at least as likely to act defensively (“I didn’t mean it that way” means that you think what you said/did is their problem, not yours) as they are to actually reflect and change their behaviors.

            There are probably one billion personal essays on various parts of the internet where people have voluntarily taken the time to write about the ways they experience oppression and aggression at work, I would recommend you read a bunch of them (Medium is a great place to start) and reflect on whether you recall doing or saying any of the things any of them talk about as being oppressive or offensive.

            But, also, good on you for caring and for acknowledging that you might well be doing these things and not knowing exactly what it is. It is difficult and requires a lot of research (which you should be doing on your own, _not_ putting the burden on your co-workers to teach you), but you should 1) feel glad that you got this feedback at all, I’m sure they were apprehensive about giving it) and 2) feel glad that there are now so many resources to help you figure out what be happening and how you can adjust. Good luck!

            1. Mazzy*

              Well there are no microaggresssions here. If she’s being condescending she’s being so to everyone

              1. Kimberlee, Esq.*

                … I’m not sure what your comment means? Are you saying that you’re completely sure that OP has never made a microaggression to anyone on her team? Cause it sounds like the OP is not themselves certain of that, and I would be astounded to hear that a white person in an office pull of people of color had never made a microaggression (it’s simply that common).

                There are definitely things OP could be doing that wouldn’t be perceived as condescending to another white person, but could be felt as such by a person of color. I think that, given OP’s eagerness to assess and fix the problem, it would be helpful for them to look into that possibility.

    4. Temp-anon*

      I was once called into HR for joking with a coworker and someone overheard. I was totally mortified (to this day!) and have not made that mistake again. Here it was one issue that was resolved though so I’m not sure it applies.

      I think feedback like this can be unhelpful if you don’t have an example of what you are doing, because then it’s not “this thing is condescending, stop it”, it’s up to you to self-reflect and humans are terrible at that. Do you ever try to give people feedback about their job or train them on something? I would stop that behavior right away because I think it can come across that way.

      In your shoes, I would default to being polite, pleasant, but just focused on the work and see if those people are able to trust you more in time.

    5. fposte*

      You are being really, really thoughtful about feedback that can be really hard to hear.

      You’re right that people who see you as a thing may never change their opinion, even if you stop being the thing. But some people will change their opinion, and some people may not have that opinion, or they may be in a wait-and-see mode.

      Does your workplace offer any kind of access to *good* diversity workshops or discussions? If not, can you find something in the community? I think finding something structured and actionable is a good first step and it broadens your thoughts just from your office.

    6. Jen A.*

      Are there any regional differences between you and your colleagues? I know someone who from one part of the country to another and is also the only white female among a group of women of color (for context she is a physician in a clinic setting (ie she doesn’t own the practice she is an employee) and the other staff are nurses and techs). She was reprimanded for being cold and imperious and when she asked for an example it turns out that when she comes in to the office she says hello to anyone who is right there in the moment but doesn’t seek out everyone else to say to hi to them too. And her colleagues complained to management about it because it was their perception that she was being haughty. She still had to calibrate her behavior to fit her new setting but that’s not a character flaw it’s a things are done a different way in different places thing.

      A former colleague just moved to her company’s office in Johannesburg from DC and it’s a thing there too – she has to walk around the office and say good morning to everyone first thing – it’s a ritual she’s finding very difficult to get used to. Similarly, my company has a new hire who is from Nigeria and he also walks around every morning to greet everyone individually.

      1. LCL*

        I totally believe you but God, this is a repulsive happening. Female coworker is reported by other female coworkers because she didn’t say hello? And management responded by supporting the complainers? I can’t imagine anyone coming into my office and complaining about a coworker being haughty. This is the same ol’ gender based ‘women should be nice’ pressure we have faced from men, and denounced. We have got to stop doing it to ourselves.

        2. Chaordic One*

          This happened to me. I do not recall ever not saying hello to coworkers, but apparently I was preoccupied with some emergency fire to put out and I walked past someone in the hallway without saying hello to them.

          I was informed of my “faux pas” one of my supervisors.

        3. Quadnon.*

          But you are not from that culture. The greeting everyone upon entry is 100% a cultural thing in many countries. You can whine and complain and get irate but people will still you as rude and the jerk because you are ignoring the common greeting ritual.

    7. Dodger*

      I would frame this as a workstyle or personality clash, rather than a white privilege issue. Otherwise, in an effort to be mindful of the challenges others have experienced, you’re essentially preventing yourself from having effective boundaries and self-respect. Besides, if others are stereotyping you because of your skin color (which I don’t see any evidence of), that’s a whole ‘nother issue.

      1. Tina*

        I think it’s probably a combination of things happening. Race is one difference, I’m from the Midwest and others are from the East Coast. I’m new to the office and others have been there 10+ years. I’m one of the youngest, and my role is new (it involves a lot of building, developing new things, effectively creating more work for the department). I do not want to dismiss folks’ feelings, and regardless of my intentions, my impact is very real and I’ve hurt colleagues. I think I came in ready to make changes, rolled up my sleeves and dove into the work. That, coupled with my identities, maybe gave people an impression about me. I just want to figure out how to move forward and repair things, and from conversations with my supervisor, she does not seem very interested in guiding me through this process.

        1. Lora*

          Ooooohh that makes sense. Even if you are hired specifically to change things, it’s best to start listening very carefully to anyone and everyone who was involved with the old way and ask them lots of questions about the history of why they did it like that and not some other way. At least when you go to change things, people will feel like OK, you understand the thing and they have been heard. And that goes for everyone, crossing gender / race / ethnicity / religion etc. boundaries – I’ve managed to upset plenty of straight white men by changing something they worked really hard on.

          That gets sort of tangled with identity politics: your colleagues feel like you’re being bossy because white. I often feel like I am disrespected despite having more experience and expertise because I’m female. When it’s someone within the same socioeconomic group inflicting the change, then everyone just hates it, but sometimes they hate it more on its merits.

        2. Marisol*

          ok, this is great color to have. My initial impression was that this is more of an overall personality/culture clash, as Dodger and Jen A. describe below, rather than specifically a racism problem. Reading the other details you provide makes me wonder about something: 1) are you primarily a task- or results- oriented person, rather than a relationship oriented person? People who focus on the work, with the best intention of delivering the best results, can rub people the wrong way by ignoring subtle social cues. It has nothing whatsoever to do with disrespect and in fact, is a sign of humility: the person operating this way assumes that everyone subordinates their social needs to serve the greater good, because that’s what they do. They don’t need strokes; they just want to be of service and get down to work, and they take if for granted that others are that way too. But most people DO need strokes. That, coupled with the fact that you are from a region of the US that values modesty and being low-key, which (from my perspective as a Southern California native at least) often comes across as being taciturn and reserved, can make you seem…brusque in the way you go about achieving your goals.

          Does this sound like it could be worth exploring? Obviously I know very little about your situation but this sentence in particular, “I think I came in ready to make changes, rolled up my sleeves and dove into the work” made me think about a set of character traits I frequently see that can cause ruffled feathers. You sound like a genuinely kind and introspective person and I trust you have the best intentions. Morever, I am NOT convinced that I have identified the source of the problem, but only offer an idea that you might want to consider…

          1. Aitch Arr*

            I think this could very well be right on target.

            I also think this is a situation that could benefit from some coaching, both group and individual. Is that something offered within your organization?

        3. Tex*

          There are many business articles on ‘change management’ (Harvard Business Review is a good source of book guides too). There’s a lot of politics to what you are attempting to do, in fact the big companies hire consultants who specialize in the soft skills for orgs going through transformations. You may view your job as purely operational, but that’s far from how your colleagues experience or perceive it.

    8. Sled Dog Mama*

      Ugh, yes this totally happened to me in college.
      I was working at a summer program for incoming college students and on one of our evenings off all the staff were sitting around talking about our experiences transitioning into college. The college I went to was very different from my high school. College was a small liberal arts institution that eliminated the requirement of being a “professing christian” for board members while I was there, the main reason cited for the elimination was that it excluded too many alumni from serving on the board. The student body was racially, socio-economically, religiously and sexually diverse (I don’t how else to say that there were openly homosexual and trans-gendered students). My High School was about 70% non-white (mostly of African decent) and 30% white, the whole area the school drew from was very poor.
      During this conversation about our transitions into college I made the (factual) statement that although so much of my high school was non-white there were only 4 or 5 non-white students in the (mostly honors and AP) classes I took so I just didn’t know many of my non-white “classmates” so transitioning into the environment with so many students who were not white had been an adjustment for me. Apparently someone took offense at this statement and I got called into the directors office a few days later to make sure I could work with the non-white staff members and that I didn’t have a problem treating them as equals. I was mortified, someone was offended by my statement of my experience, but it also taught me that some people are just looking for things to be offended by.
      So I don’t have anything really useful to help you beyond saying that you’re not alone.

    9. TheOriginalMags*

      No advice (sorry) but your comment sounds like you are already in the right frame of mind, like a thoughtful helpful person. Good luck!

      1. Tina*

        Thank you all for your help, and what someone said about not needing strokes– I think you may be onto something there. I wish we had some coaching or there was a mentor at my organization who could help me navigate this. I fear that the road to repairing relationships might be long, and I don’t want another negative performance review or worse, lose the opportunity to work there because I’m deemed “not a team player”.

        1. Marisol*

          Look up my former life coach, Barbara Deutsch, on the web. She specializes in this sort of thing, communication/image problems. What I homed in on about you not giving needed strokes–I learned the ability to have that insight from her. She is a genius and can help you over the phone. She’ll give you scripts, you’ll say the scripts, the people’s reaction to you will change, and then that experience will give you insight and you will develop skills organically and no longer be dependent on scripts. Pay the fee, even if you don’t get reimbursed from your company. It will inform your work relationships and your personal relationships and is an investment that will reap lifelong dividends.

    10. Chaordic One*

      Sometimes it can be a fine line to walk. I’ve been in situations where someone (usually a white coworker) has to provide instruction on how to perform a given task and why it is necessary. (This is what you do, step 1, step 2, and step 3.)

      Even in a group situation, people of color frequently find the person who gives the instructions to be condescending (more often than the white people), while the white people do not.

    11. You didn't do anything wrong.*

      It’s simple really. You have a bad boss. And not so great coworkers.

      Your boss may be a nice enough person (I don’t know) but she is a bad manager. You supposedly acted racist yet she cannot give you concrete examples of what you did, or tell you what to do to improve. A manager should not be getting you in trouble for non-concrete things that they don’t have an example of and she should have a plan of action for improvement (though in this case since you didn’t actually do anything you can’t really be expected to improve to begin with)

      Your coworkers aren’t great. Notice how no one has ever spoken to you or called you about your supposed racism, but they went right to your manager behind your back? And there is the problem of no one being able to give you examples of your “transgressions”. Either your coworkers can’t give concrete examples, or your manager isn’t able to articulate them. Or both. It’s problematic no matter how you slice it.

      The bottom line is that you haven’t done anything wrong. Please don’t feel guilty Tina. My advice would be to find a new job. You have sneaky coworkers and an inept manager. I don’t work there so I don’t know why they are picking on you for things they can’t even articulate / things you never did, but it’s a toxic environment. You deserve so much better. You deserve a workplace where you are appreciated, have good coworkers and especially a competent manager. Don’t feel badly. I know it sucks when you are on the receiving end of criticism from your boss but in this case your boss herself couldn’t even tell you what you did wrong. That’s a huge red flag. Don’t feel like you have to walk on eggshells, or be overly nice or PC. Your coworkers and manager are the problem, not you. They are the ones who have shown bad behavior. Just because you are white and they are not doesn’t automatically make you the bad one. I’m a WOC and it bothers me so much when other POC act the way your coworkers have.

  38. writelhd*

    What is the opinion of employee of the month programs? Are they effective morale boosters, or do they just make morale worse among those who aren’t chosen? What’s the best way to sustain them month after month, make sure enough different people are getting recognized? I’ve noticed that we’ve tried a few different company-wide employee of the month schemes, but they always seem to fade out or have issues. We’ve tried nominations sent to the president, which seemed to work for a while but apparently he stopped getting nominations despite sending out reminders, so he quit doing it. Some people felt strongly enough that we should resurrect it that now we’re trying a committee of people from across different departments meeting monthly to decide. I worry that this risks being a popularity contest, and it’s still hard to form a committee of members who are adequately positioned to be able to see everyone’s work, especially the “departments of 1.” I’m also thinking that maybe it’s not the single employee who goes above and beyond the very most in a given month who needs to be recognized–because so many of us do that it’s impossible and maybe even counterproductive to morale to pin that on just one person each month–but one who it seems could especially use a morale boost.

    1. Backroads*

      I like them for my husband’s work as they tend to come with very decent prizes (like ultimately a free anniversary after b&b gift certificate and upscale restaurant gift cards. We are those people.)

      But while they’re likable, necessary is a strong word.

    2. Borgette*

      It sounds like you’re having trouble sustaining momentum on a structured Employee of the Month program. Your end goal is recognizing hard work and boosting morale; are there other ways to do this?

      One ‘other way’ could be a less formal, more flexible recognition board/email blast. (Elisha managed to finish the new teapot design a week ahead of schedule so that we could present it to our new vendor – who loved it! Rosario cleaned out the supply closet and color coded the shelves. Look at this crazy golden teapot they found! [before/after pics] Doesn’t it look great?!)

      If you’re really looking for an employee of the month program, think about what’s going wrong with the processes you’ve already tried. It sounds like there are issues picking people fairly, and sustaining participation month after month. Are there metrics available to automate the selection process? Could you focus on a different department/location/manager each month to keep nominations from drying up? Are there incentives you could use to encourage nominations/participation?

    3. Mazzy*

      I hated them at one job that had it. The employee of the month was always someone who acted really happy and smiley and did nice to have extra projects. The people who kept the company together and who might appear stressed or scattered at some point during the month NEVER got it. I remember one guy doing one half a day nice to have visible extra project and he got the award the next month. Then it became obvious what management was rewarding and that it was BS.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Not a fan, myself.
      But I think the lack of participation tells you everything you need to know. Your company has tried this a few times with no luck, I think I would let it go now.

      My knee-jerk reaction is that it has a grammar school feel to it. But my longer term reaction is that I would not want to receive such an award because usually I can quickly point out several people who are just as or probably more deserving than me. On the other side of the coin is watching these programs hit a bad turn of events. Such as the employee of the month got fired shortly after the sign went up with their name on it as a winner for the month. At that point, NO ONE wanted to be employee of the month, ever.

      Finally, in one company it came across as tone deaf. Employees had crushing workloads and they were supposed to spend time nominating someone when they did not even have time to run to the restroom. In restroom vs employee of the month nomination, the restroom wins.

    5. Toph*

      I’m not a fan of these. While they can be a good motivator and morale booster at first, I’ve found that over time they can breed resentment.For example, a normally mediocre performer does one GREAT thing, then gets recognized that month for that one thing, and then everyone else who is consistently good, but never amazing doesn’t get any recognition. That doesn’t mean they’re all bad, or that the example I mention would necessarily happen, but it’s a pattern I’ve noticed that can turn it south.

    6. Framing Queen*

      One company I worked for ended the EOTM program after a near employee revolt. They had awarded the honor to a guy after he got out of jail for (physical) spouse abuse. That did not go over well.

      But then his wife ended up shooting and killing him in a subsequent abuse situation and the company planted a commemorative tree in his honor in the outdoor eating area.

  39. Backroads*

    And another question: I teach, and while my current school is marvelous and I often recommend job hunting teachers to look there, it’s about time to see what else is out there. I applied with a local district who first does a screening interview before passing the resumes and such to individual schools. I went into this screening interview, it went swimmingly, and closed with the usual “Do you have any questions for us?” Due to this blog, I was able to throw out a few questions I feel good about, but it was hard. This is one of the biggest districts in the state with all manner of school and community variation.

    So my question is, what to ask when you’re faced with such vague generality

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      What’s the vague generality? Asking if you have any questions? I think that’s fairly standard to ask at the end of an interview. There’s lots of stuff you can ask about:

      What do you like most about this school?
      What would you like to see the school improve on in the future?
      What did you find you had to adjust to from your previous school when you got here?

      Generic “applies to any school” questions like that are good to have handy, but it also is good if you can ask follow-up questions to things you actually already discussed during the interview.

        1. Anothereducator*

          I would be interested in culture of district, since it is decentralized and large (maybe larger than where you are coming from). Some questions could be:

          -Can you share with me what opportunities there are to collaborate or work with teachers in other schools around the district?
          -What do teacher in-services look like? Do folks from X, Y, and Z schools get the opportunity to learn or train together?
          -What are some unique aspects of working in District # that you enjoy or appreciate?

  40. Dr. Scudworth*

    I’m slogging through e-QIP (federal govt background check) and it sucksssss. I’ve lived many apartment and had several gigs in the last 7 years, plus several periods of unemployment and it’s torture dragging up all these old addresses and phone numbers. Plus, my anxiety is flaring up and threatening that the Feds are gonna bust me for not giving the right address to that old manager who actually doesn’t work there anymore and doesn’t remember me. Anyone have any words of encouragement?

    1. Electric Hedgehog*

      It will be ok. I’ve done my on e-QIP, and most of my family has some variety of clearance or other. My sister used to actually the interviews on the high level clearance, and if it makes you feel better, she used to tell me stories about some really weird people she ran into. No worries on the old managers/not remembering stuff – you have tax records and suchlike, and I bet they can review those if necessary to verify that you worked where you claim to have worked.

    2. CityMouse*

      One thing I might recommend: Amazon. I had trouble remembering every address but I had the account forever and had never deleted mailing address and it helped.

      1. Wheezy Weasel*

        Also run a copy of your own credit report, it should have almost all of the addresses on there.

    3. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      You can do it! Also, it’s okay to be frustrated. A couple of years ago I was hired to help a state judge complete the background check and committee materials needed to be nominated for a federal judgeship. And we were working with two people at the White House whose job it was to help us! Those forms are a bear, especially accounting for the unemployment periods. I would suggest being liberal with printing drafts to check your work, creating master documents for everything before transferring to the forms, not transferring until you are sure you have everything you need, and being patient with yourself! Also, the feds are not going to bust you for not giving the right address to that old manager who actually doesn’t work there anymore and doesn’t remember you. I had a put down a few “address unknown” and my judge still got confirmed! (In one memorable case a former supervisor the judge had lost touch with had actually become a governor and I could not for the life of me figure out his direct contact information, so I just put the info for the governor’s mansion and figured the feds could figure it out.) Good luck!

    4. Pwyll*

      e-QIP is the worst. Hang in there.

      The point of these forms is to disclose everything you can to the best of your ability. It’s not to be perfect. I had done a ton of freelance work, some of my old employers had gone out of business, old bosses passed away, etc. that made mine a nightmare, and I had a roommate who was a foreign national who recently traveled to one of those countries Americans can’t generally go to on vacation. And I still got my clearance. Just make a good faith effort to be comprehensive and you should be okay.

      +1 on the credit check, BTW. In addition to giving you a good listing of addresses, I actually discovered errors that I corrected to fix up my credit score.

    5. Peggy-O*

      I took full advantage of the free text fields to address any issues. And if they have issues, they just ask at the interview.

    6. CAA*

      You will get through it! You can find old addresses on your tax returns. You only need seven years for lower level clearances, and you should save your tax records that long, so hopefully that’ll help with most of them. If there’s any place you lived less than a year, and you can’t remember the address, you can put “unknown” in the blank. You may need to use your landlords for “people who knew me when I lived at x”, and they will contact some but usually not all of the people you list. It’s ok if you can’t remember every single thing, but just don’t make something up to fill in the blank if you can’t remember accurately.

      In addition to a few references, they will contact your university to verify your education; they will look for any kind of criminal record in the cities and states where you lived; and they will check your passport records. I had to let an employee go once because he claimed he had a degree when he was really one class short of graduating. He appealed the clearance denial, but by lying in the first place he had blown all chance of being seen as trustworthy by the examiners.

    7. Katie the Fed*

      They’re still doing eQip? A lot of people have to do the SF-86 via paper now after the Chinese OPM hack.

      The most important thing is that there are no gaps in addresses – I ran into trouble because I always went home to live with my parents during summer in college, so I only listed that address once and then my school addresses and it was more than they could handle. Like asking them to divide by zero.

  41. DecorativeCacti*

    Is it weird to hang an obituary in your office/cubicle? One of my close friends died two years ago and I have had a copy of her obituary hanging on my cork board at work since then. However, she also worked here so I’m not the only one. I can probably find a dozen of them. I’m looking for a new job and don’t know if I should carry it on with me. My gut tells me no, that it’s only not weird here because everyone knew her but I’m not sure.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      It might be time to take it home when you end this job, although it seems perfectly fine to have it up now. I’m so sorry about your friend.

      1. ElleKat*

        When one of our directors died – wow it’s probably been over 10 years ago – we were all give large round buttons with her picture on it.. it’s still hanging on my cubicle wall!!! Now that I think about it – it is kinda creepy/weird…

        1. DecorativeCacti*

          Right? I never thought twice about it, but it’s been two years. We have lots of people who started long after she died and they are probably walking around going, “Who in the hell is this girl and why is she EVERYWHERE?”

    2. BigSigh*

      Take it home. Is there a different reminder of your friend’s life that you could take to your next job to continue to publicly remember her?

      1. afiendishthingy*

        I think just putting up a picture of her or of the two of you would be fine at a new job, but it would look a little strange to be the newbie at work who hung up an obituary in her cubicle first thing.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          I agree. When you change jobs that obit becomes an “at home thing”. It was an “at work thing” because you all shared the grief and bonded, even if just in small ways, from it. The new workplace will not have shared this experience with you and it might look strange or cause people to ask you about it, frequently.

    3. Trillian*

      One office I deal with has an obit on the wall for one of their employees who was a victim of domestic violence. It’s both moving and pointed, in a way I thoroughly approve–that they’re not going to let this young woman or what happened to her be erased.

  42. Annalee*

    Today is my last day of an academic research assistant position, and my boss/PI wants me to give my new (grad school) email to research participants so that I can continue managing the data for his project that I’m leaving, because he assumed that would be appropriate since we might be writing a paper on it together later. Ha! Nope! I’m so ready to leave this project (and this boss), I’m totally fine with not being an author on the paper if it comes to that.

    1. SophieChotek*

      Yeah, I hear you. Unless you get paid.
      I can see if you really wanted to be on the paper, but if that isn’t important to you…

  43. mismatch woes*

    How do you determine why the responses to a job listing make no sense whatsoever? We’re hiring for a mid level individual contributor on my team, 3-5 years of experience with specific items in nonprofit development.
    We seem to be getting responses from people who don’t have any experience with our area of work.
    We’ve rewritten the listing and post to the local industry organizations and similar sites and yet get totally random backgrounds applying.
    For instance we get a lot of people with relatively extensive retail experience that may translate for some roles but definitely doesn’t for this. Or we get people who have done operations work but have no experience with development. The title alone is clearly midlevel and the listing to me at least is clear. In the past it would seem you’d get the bunch of people who didn’t make sense as applicants and had no experience to translate but also ones who were solid options – now we seem to only get the ones that don’t fit.
    (I am not the hiring manager- it’s for a same level role on my team and I’m trying to help my boss figure out why the applicants have been so out of left field.)

    1. LCL*

      Is it as simple as the solid midlevel people you are looking for already have those kinds of jobs? Maybe it’s an applicants’ market, not an employers’ market right now. So all that’s left are the unqualified people.

    2. rageismycaffeine*

      I manage a resume repository for development positions at my multi-location institution. I can 100% tell you that I am seeing the same thing. And it’s making me nuts because when people register on the resume repository, we ask them to select which area of advancement work they’re interested in, and then tell us how many years of experience in that area of work they have – and 9 times out of 10, those answers don’t line up. Don’t tell me you have 4-6 years of major gift experience when you’ve only worked retail. There’s another area for transferable/relevant skills.

      I suspect LCL is in the right here. Though I keep hearing about how fast folks are expected to job-hop in development these days, so I guess I should be surprised that you’re not getting more qualified applicants – but I’m not.

    3. BRR*

      What I’ve seen is posting say 3-5 years of development experience or 3-5 years experience with X years in development.

    4. Darth Brooks*

      Do the benefits balance with similar positions? If qualified people aren’t applying, there might be something about this job that isn’t as appealing as other jobs requiring the same experience. Maybe salary is too low? Are there perks other companies offer that you don’t? Someone without the needed experience might not notice those things the way someone in the field would.

    5. lovetoujours*

      So we had the same issue for our RD position (and we’re having it for another manager position that’s not RD related, though not as much). In talking with my supervisor and the supervisor for RD, we think it’s just because people assume all you have to do for development is being able to speak well. They see the title and that it’s development and think they can do it because they did sales/worked with the public before.

  44. MegaMoose, Esq.*

    Hey open thread! I’ve got an interview! As some of you know from prior posts, I’ve been trying, with varied degrees of success, to network my way out of contract work and into a permanent position (my therapist says, correctly of course, I shouldn’t say “real job”). And now I’ve got my first real interview of 2017! And, of course, I got it by applying on the state jobs board the way I’ve been applying for every job of its type for six years now and networking had nothing to do with it. *hangs head, sighs.* I’ve interviewed for so many of these jobs, but as a kind commenter said here once, getting into government agency jobs can take years, and all it takes is hitting the right opening at the right time. Here’s hoping this is the one!

    1. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      Congrats! Sometimes you have to try multiple things at once to get one to work. Doesn’t mean the rest wasn’t worth it as I’m sure you gained skill there that will help you in the interview process!

      1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

        That is a good way to think about it. Thanks all for the good wishes – I’ve got the weekend to prepare, which for good or ill overlaps with a trip out of town, and we will see how it goes.

  45. Goes on Anon*

    I know you can’t force someone to accept help, but how do you even approach an employee about their options if they never say anything at all? To further complicate matters, dude is directly supervised by his brother, so it kind of has to be dealt with by someone else.

    My boss wants to me to look into the legal (Canada) and moral obligations towards helping an employee with mental health difficulties. The problem is, the employee he’s referring to doesn’t talk. To anyone. He CAN talk, I managed to get him to answer a question when I gave him his orientation and training, but basically every question anyone asks him is answered with shrugs or blank stares. I haven’t heard him talk in months. So the usual advice of sitting him down for a talk isn’t really… practicable.

    I’m sort of thinking about asking for more specifics, like specifically why Boss is worried about this person and if it’s affecting their work. I’m sort of unofficially joint-HR, so it should be OK, but this is a weird fuzzy grey area and I don’t know if there’s anything we can do, but Boss wants a better answer than that.

    1. fposte*

      If boss wants a better answer, he needs to rethink the sibling reporting structure. Is Bob Major really going to be able to fire Bob Minor?

      However, I suspect the legal stuff would be provincial level–is there a provincial office of employment you might be able to contact, or a provincial disability services office?

      1. paul*

        WOW. I can’t imagine an office that isn’t a family business having siblings supervise each other. Yikes, yow.

        As far as legal obligations…I mean, get thee to an attorney? You say you’re unofficial HR; I’m taking it you don’t have extensive training in employment law in your area given that? If so explain that to your boss; “Hey, boss guy, I am licensed to practice law and do not feel comfortable or qualified to discuss intricate legal issues authoritatively”. It might be one thing if you were real, official HR with substantial training on employer’s obligations about this stuff, but it doesn’t seem like you are from your post. And if your boss is too…stubborn/dense/cheap to understand that sometimes you need a specialist to answer questions I’d think you have bigger problems. It’s the difference between knowing how to change a tire vs rebuild a fuel injection system….

        I *would* go with your instinct to ask your boss about why exactly they’re asking here. Is the person’s work problematic? Some fields this type of closed offedness would be a real problem, others maybe not?

        1. Goes on Anon*

          Nepotism is the driving force behind our company. Mostly we hire people’s family members when we need more people. The reporting structure is rather strange as a result, but causes less conflict than you’d think. It’s just, I don’t think it’s appropriate to discuss this guy’s medical needs with his brother. That pushes some boundaries.

      2. Goes on Anon*

        Boss is the only one who hires/fires people, so that’s not really an issue. The bigger issue is just that I don’t know what kind of answer he wants from me. From a legal standpoint, we’re fine. From a moral standpoint, we can’t force this guy to seek help and we already have a pretty solid mental health program in place. There are resources. There are handouts and pamphlets. I’m at a loss for what else to provide.

    2. Ashley*

      Any chance he has selective mutism? It is more common then one might think. I have a relative who doesn’t talk but will grunt, write, or use a made up sign we understand. This can be tied to social anxiety so keep that in mind with your approach.

      1. Goes on Anon*

        It’s possible, but he doesn’t communicate at all. No grunts, no writing. He just stares at people until they go away. Which legit might be the problem boss is having.

        1. Manders*

          Can he communicate via email or chat?

          I know you’re worried about involving the brother in this, but does he talk with his brother or is he completely unable to speak?

          Is the total lack of speech preventing him from doing some aspect of his job, or is talking not an essential part of his work?

          1. Goes on Anon*

            He doesn’t have an assigned computer at work so I don’t think he checks his email. I know he does talk because I’ve heard him, and his brother says he’s talkative about food.

            I don’t think he needs to talk here which is why I never worried about it. He assembles stuff, his job is mostly bending tubes and screwing things to other things or drilling holes. As long as he follows instructions there should be no issue. I just opt him out of some of the other things, like membership in committees and meetings and stuff. When we have external inspectors (a couple a year) I ask them not to talk to him.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          If your boss is concerned about him staring at people in lieu of answering them, is it necessary that he answer them? Does his silence cause safety concerns? For example, if a machine caught fire would he be able to tell someone?

          I don’t know how you would research a moral answer to this question. Perhaps your answer is to know his limitations (he does not speak) and work to help him stay safe while he is at work. If he is not safe then he can’t work there. (The overriding concern being the company has a moral obligation not to allow harm to come to anyone under the company’s employ.)

        3. Mephyle*

          The fact that he doesn’t communicate at all doesn’t rule out selective mutism; it could be that it’s his coping strategy.
          I’m not saying this to internet-diagnose, but rather in support of Ashley’s comment to keep the social anxiety connection in mind.

    3. DaisyGrrl*

      I agree with the others that you should talk to the boss first about what his concerns are specifically. Are there behaviours that have been causing problems? Has the employee been making comments that are concerning (talk of suicide, etc.?). Is his continued employment at risk?

      The Canadian Mental Health Association and the Mental Health Commission of Canada have some resources that might help, but if you believe that the employee is at risk of being fired or otherwise adversely affected because of his perceived mental illness (since you really don’t know his medical status), it’s probably a good idea to consult with an employment lawyer once you have a better idea what’s going on. You’ll have to be very careful about any action you take.

      Also seconding the recommendation to review the reporting relationship between siblings. Terrible idea, that.

    4. Mephyle*

      And one more consideration. Could it be a hearing problem? You mentioned that you got him to answer a question once during orientation and training, but given the pattern you describe, I wouldn’t rule it out unless you have observed evidence to the contrary.

  46. PegLeg*

    Help! Through a recent series of unfortunate and unrelated events I just inherited a staff of 6 people, two of which were demoted from management positions and placed under me, and have significantly more seniority than me (both in life and at our agency). We are a school based program, and everyone in my division (other than me) is off for the month while schools are out. I was just informed that our CEO is reevaluating working spaces and all of my recently acquired employees will be losing their offices and moved into cubicles, and that I am moving to a much more desirable office. I’m sick over having to tell everyone that they will be moving, and especially that the move means they are losing their private work spaces, and that these conversations will be happening in my new, large, window office. Any advice on ways to approach this/have the conversation/make it any easier for me?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Oooh. I haven’t been in either position, but from your side, I think you might want to phrase this as “The CEO has decided to move your group into cubicles,” making it clear that it’s not personal and wasn’t your decision. And if I were on the other end, I’d probably appreciate hearing “I know this is going to be an adjustment, and I’ll do anything I can to make this work as well as possible for you.” Assuming, of course, that you’re going to be allowed to do/buy anything to make working from cubicles easier.

      1. BRR*

        I disagree with the first part. As a manager, PegLeg needs to support these decisions (there’s a post on here that I can’t find that explains why). PegLeg can state that they understand these people’s frustrations.

        Having just being downgraded to a horrible space, I strongly agree with your second part. If you can offer things to make the transition easier, that should help.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Okay, I didn’t mean it so much as “I disagree,” but “I didn’t make this decision, so there’s no point trying to talk me out of it, and it wasn’t personal.”

    2. AnonyMouse*

      Oh, that is unfortunate. I think it’s important to acknowledge that this isn’t good news, even a simple, “I know this may be disappointing to hear” can go a long way. I would also suggest marking your calendar for 2 weeks after the move and checking in with them one on one to hear how the move has gone and try to address any concerns that have come up.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Put them all in your office with you.
      That is the first thing I thought of, but I realize you probably can’t do that.

      My father worked at Household Name Company. The company gave him a new desk. Six months later they gave him another new desk. The first desk was fine but he kept getting a new one. He was disgusted. The guys in the fabrication department were working with hammers that broke apart when used. After the second new desk, my father went into the boss and said, “Get that desk out of here, give me back my original desk. Use the money you saved on my desk to buy hammers with heads that actually stay on the handles for the guys in the fabrication shop.”

      Of course, the bookkeeping on that was a nightmare and probably the guys never got new hammers, although someone did bring back my father’s original desk.

      So questions:
      1) Can you move into a cube just like what they have?
      2) Can you ask for a more modest office under the pretext that you will be closer to them?
      3)Can you get partitions for your office so if anyone needs quiet workspace they will have it?
      4)Can you set a secondary desk for yourself in their cube area and use that desk frequently?

      Stay with me, my point is coming. If you have asked for some reconfiguration to what is happening here and you hit a wall of NOs, you may feel better just because you tried. You will be able to say that you tried to make things a little different but to no avail.

      Beyond that my second best suggestion is to make your focus, “how can I make this easier for YOU?” If you think of management as a service position where you are there to serve them, this might carry you through some rough spots. I know it did for me. There were some things I could not change and I would say that. There were other things that I could tweak and make smaller things easier. I made sure those tweaks happened.

  47. New Teacher*

    After spending three years as a social worker with migrant children, I have decided to take my career in a different direction. I live abroad and will be teaching 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade in a bilingual school this coming Fall, with the hope of becoming a certified teacher. I know teaching has its challenges, but I am looking forward my new job!

    Teachers, particularly elementary school teachers, do you have any tips and recommendations to share for my first year?

    Thank you and enjoy the summer!

    1. Alice*

      Understanding by Design (Grant Wiggins) is a great book about instructional design and assessment.
      Read up on “concept check questions” in ELL jargon — great for figuring out if your students are actually following along or just afraid to ask questions.
      No experience with the age range in particular.
      Good luck with the career change! I’m sure that you bring tons of transferable skills.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      Not a teacher, but several friends who are have appreciated a book called The First Year of Teaching:How to Be An Effective Teacher by Harry Wong/Rosemary Wong.

    3. Julianne*

      Lots of tips! Are you going to be the classroom teacher, or teaching one of the languages (ex. as an ESL teacher)?

      1. Anna Held*

        V8. It takes a surprising amount of stamina to get through a school day, and your throat will be dry half way through. Go for the low sodium. (Not even kidding, especially since you can’t eat in front of the kids. Some places restrict what you can drink too.)

      2. New Teacher*

        Not sure if you will see this since I was late to reply, I will be a classrooom teacher, teaching all subjects. Each grade has a classroom teacher in French and a classroom teacher in English.

    4. Foreign Octupus*

      Oh, wow. Congratulations.

      I taught children as an ESL teacher for the last 12 months and classroom management is going to be your best friend. As long as you have the CM under control, everything else is easy. I recommend creating a list of rules (no more than 5) that you place somewhere prominent in your classroom and get the children to read it at the beginning of the year. Make clear what the consequences will be as well (an escalation principle is useful; kind of like three strikes and ding-dong, consequences are at your door type thing).

      My experience was a little different to what yours will be but I also found it useful to tell the students at the beginning of the lesson what I expected them to achieve by the end. If they don’t finish in class, they have it for homework (as I rule, I didn’t set homework unless in these cases) but if they did finish, then we could play relevant games. It helped to keep them focused, particularly once they saw I kept my word.

      Lastly, remember that you’re in charge. It’s your classroom and you are the boss. There are going to be class clowns and smart remarks and children who just don’t want to learn but as long as you keep it at the forefront of your mind that you’re the boss, the children will recognise that. Go in hard and then soften up as the year progresses. You can’t recoup ground later in the year if you start by trying to be their friend.

      I know it sounds like I’m describing battle tactics but I really viewed it as that. I didn’t enjoy teaching children at all but you’ve had experience working with them so you’re already better positioned that I was.

      However, good luck!

  48. Yas Queen*

    How to have decent working relationship with admin assistant who gets unreasonably possessive and overreacts when she thinks she’s out of the loop?

    She reports to a different boss than me and we’re working on a project together; she’s assisting and coordinating but is not the project lead. She’s tried getting me to forward her emails about the project that she overheard about, but she didn’t need to be included at that point, anyway, and I don’t appreciate her trying to go around my boss and get me involved. I don’t want to feed into her territorial, needlessly controlling behavior, which is one of her previously demonstrated patterns. I have a great rapport with her for non-work stuff and don’t want to cross her, but I feel like she’s putting me in an unfair spot and I just want to stay out of her drama and get the work done.

    1. fposte*

      The easiest thing to do is to go from not appreciating to not caring. That can be either not caring and adding her to the email list because why not and there’s no principle worth defending here (I don’t know the situation, so maybe there is or maybe there isn’t), or not caring and cheerfully saying “Bob Your Boss is point person for your department, so he can fill you in.” “We;re focusing communication on the point people” is a perfectly fine thing to say, too.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Wait to you try, random, commas! It’s great.

            I think I need to put a splint on that finger to keep it away from the comma key.

  49. Jessen*

    A thought on medical conditions and whatnot – is there a good way to communicate that yes, one has a fairly normal, generally innocuous condition, but in your case it’s significantly more severe than normal?

    I have allergies. Standard stuff – hay fever, perfume sensitivity, smoke sensitivity, some animal allergies. But I have them in a significantly more severe form than most people. A lot of times I get people who don’t seem to understand that I can’t just “take some claratin” or something and then just deal with it, or that allergies for some people can be significantly more severe than just a stuffy nose.

    And I’m at a loss to explain that yes, if you smell like smoke, or spray febreze everywhere, it’s causing a serious problem for me. I’m not just uncomfortable, I can get really sick.

    1. Snark*

      I think stating it the way you have is good. “I have very intense allergic reactions to environmental allergens. Most people tend to get stuffy and can take an over the counter antihistamine, but unfortunately my reaction is much more severe and makes me very ill.”

      1. Snark*

        “So, when you come into my office smelling strongly of smoke, it’s not just an irritant but actually makes me very sick. Can we work on a way to make this less of a problem? Febreze and other air fresheners unfortunately also set me off, so that’s not an option.”

    2. NoMoreMrFixit*

      I tell people that I have severe allergies and OTC meds are not up to the task of controlling my symptoms. And leave it at that. More details are really nobody else’s business.

    3. Marisol*

      My suggestion only works if you are comfortable disclosing medical details, but what I personally would do is state the specific, concrete diagnosis and/or danger. “if I smell febreze, I can go into anaphylactic shock and we’ll have to call an ambulance. I hate to inconvenience you, but I know you probably don’t want to send me to the hospital (or kill me.)” I would NOT say something like, “I have really bad allergies. No, really, you don’t understand–they’re baaaad.” Make it jargony and make the consequences clear.

      1. Jessen*

        A lot of the trouble is that my allergies don’t follow the typical pattern people expect of “severe allergies.” I won’t really have a significant reaction to a single exposure. But as the allergic load builds, my symptoms get worse and worse. So maybe the first day of exposure, I just kind of feel a little sniffly. After a few days, I start to get headaches that won’t go away, even with medication. Keep up, and the lack of drainage (combined with some other health issues) means I start to get sinus infections. If I’m still exposed while the infection is ongoing, it’s very difficult to treat, requiring a combination of multiple antibiotics and steroids.

        But that tends not to make a whole lot of sense to people – most people think you either have a bad reaction the first time, or it just isn’t a big deal at all. Particularly the link between allergies and sinus infections in people like me seems to baffle people. I already have a skull malformation that makes drainage difficult, so allergic reactions can lead to the drainage passages closing completely, which then means my body can’t clear bacteria, which causes an infection.

        Any single exposure isn’t a big deal. But if I’m exposed to one coworker who sits next to me and smells like smoke, another who wears perfume on a regular basis, and two more who spray febreze, plus whatever else is going on that’s not related to work (pollen/mold/etc), then we’re going to have a problem.

        1. Marisol*

          you don’t have to give that whole narrative–the accuracy police isn’t going to get you. Just come up with one or two lines, an elevator pitch if you will, of what the worst consequence is. Do a little brainstorming to wordsmith it. I’m thinking something like, “I’m prone to severe sinus infections and the slightest irritation aggravates my condition. I can’t tolerate that cigar smoke, sorry.” Think of how you can condense your condition, collapse it, into a few sentences that emphasize the worst case scenario. To your mind, it might feel like lying or exaggerating but really you’re just bottom-lining it.

          1. Marisol*

            or how about, “please don’t wear perfume. It aggravates my chronic sinus condition.”

            1. Marisol*

              you could also ask your doctor for an accurate label. and what is the official term for your skull malformation? you could use that.

              heck, you can make something up–are your coworkers going to be looking at your medical records? “I have ethmoidal sinus syndrome. The slightest sinus irritation can result in a prolonged infection that requires steroids to heal. I don’t want to go on steroids again, it’s a nightmare. Please don’t wave that cat in my face, sorry for the inconvenience.”

              I just googled “sinus cavity” and made up “ethmoidal sinus syndrome.” Yes, it’s a lie, in that there is no official diagnosis of ethmoidal sinus syndrome, but the essence of what you would be saying is true, so in my mind, it’s acceptable.

              1. Jessen*

                Hypoplastic sinus is the technical term, although the non-technical way to put it is pretty much “my sinus is too small.”

                1. Marisol*

                  ok so there you go. offer hypoplastic sinus as an explanation, and then only offer the layperson’s explanation if they ask for details. “I have a hypoplastic sinus. If I am exposed to too many irritants, my sinuses will get infected and I have to go on steroids to clear it up.”

                  nobody will mess with that explanation unless they are a first class jerk.

    4. Jennifer Thneed*

      I would avoid the word “allergy”. People have instant and automatic associations with that word and then you’re fighting a losing battle.

      Instead, try saying “xyz thing makes me very sick”. Let people fill that in how they like. You can also use the word “poison”, as in “these things are poison to my system”. Or be specific if you like: “When I smell febreze I get a terrible migraine and then I vomit.”

      (My wife has terrible environmental sensitivities and so I can tell people “Well, I don’t care for the scent, but Wife will get a 3-day migraine from it.” Even the people who just think a migraine is a really bad headache still think a 3-day headache is pretty bad news.)

      1. Jessen*

        The main difficulty I have is that I don’t really have a huge problem with any one, single trigger. It’s very much an issue of what’s called “allergic load.” So, by itself, sitting by a coworker who smells like smoke isn’t a big deal. But the more triggers you pile on me, and the more repeated the exposure, the bigger the problem gets. That’s a difficult concept for a lot of people.

        It also means I really am more affected depending on the weather, time of year, and so forth.

        1. AnonyMouse*

          That may be true, but the safest thing for you is to remove them all so you don’t build up a load in the first place. That may also be simpler than trying to explain the nuances to your colleagues.

          Is there a situation you’re running into where you feel like you are being challenged and/or this sort of explanation is necessary?

          You could also say something like, “I get seriously sick from smoke – I don’t always react immediately but it’ll hit me later, hard, so please don’t smoke around me.”

          1. Marisol*

            “Is there a situation you’re running into where you feel like you are being challenged and/or this sort of explanation is necessary?”

            I wonder this too. If someone told me they were allergic to my perfume, I would simply take them at their word. I might not *like* it, but it wouldn’t occur to me to challenge them on it. I am wondering if there is a kind of “illness imposter syndrome” happening here.

            1. Jessen*

              That’s a distinct possibility. I think I still have some leftover brainbugs from childhood/early adulthood. My parents believed me and supported me, but I found that by and large other adults tended to act like I was just whiny or making excuses. I don’t have any particular evidence that would be an issue here, I’m just so used to that sort of reaction.

          2. Jessen*

            I’ll be honest, I’m not sure how much of it is my actual coworkers and how much of it is just habituation. I’m used to being treated like I’m making excuses when asking for accommodations for my allergies, but I have no specific evidence that that’s going to be an issue at current job.

            1. Marisol*

              Yeah, I get the impression that you’re overthinking it a little bit. I think if you overexplain, you might be inviting pushback, whereas if you just state the condition and your need, with an air of finality like – boom, there it is – and then let it go, people will respect that. They are ultimately responding to your cues, so don’t give them a non-verbal invitation to hassle you. Hone it down into a 2-sentence explanation and leave it there. Also, you might think of it like, you’re not really explaining your condition so that they can have a nuanced understanding of what you go through on a daily basis. That’s what you do with your friends. With these work people, it’s more of image/pr/branding/sloganing approach. The slogan you come up with is your interface with the public world, and it doesn’t have to be perfectly accurate; it just has to serve to get your needs met and preserve a good relationship with others. (Hope that makes sense.)

        2. Marisol*

          you’re not going to get them to understand a difficult concept. If that’s what you are trying to do, you won’t succeed. You have to simplify the concept into something they will get, even if it means fudging the truth just a little bit. Since your health is at stake, the end justifies the means.

  50. Spitfire*

    A co-worker of mine recently got promoted (in a kind of weird way) and since then things have gone to hell in a hand basket. She’s actually been out most of this week because she’s been worked into sickness. Even so her managers keep adding to her work load. She has no help right now and any requests were met with ‘eventually’ and then nothing. (I sit right next to here so I have heard these conversations.) Is there anything I can say to help her out? She doesn’t want to say anything to her managers but until she does, this won’t stop. I’m angry for her. She’s spoken about wanting to leave the company, which would break my heart if she did. Is there anything I can say to her managers or to encourage her to put her foot down?

    1. Maddie*

      I had this happen at my last full-time position. I had a panic attack after 3 weeks due to overwork (and I’d never had one before). My manager just kinda shrugged and told me to work harder when I asked for help.

      In her case, since she hasn’t laid it out with management yet, I would encourage her to set up a meeting. Schedule it via outlook or something so it is very formal, and to be very very detailed about what the problem is. Lay out a list of tasks/jobs and the required hours, and add them up to show it is unworkable. Didn’t work to convince my managers to change, but it helped ME by showing me just how crazy the situation was (in my case my estimate was it would have taken me 300 hours of work PER WEEK to do everything I was assigned).

      Now, if the meeting doesn’t lead to a concrete action plan? Her best bet is to just quit, because nothing is going to change.

    2. Borgette*

      For me, I keep a running List of Work. When it looks like there’s too much, or deadlines might get pushed, I tell my manager something like this: “Right now A is my highest priority, B and C are after that, and E, F, G are on the back burner until A and B are complete. It looks like A will be done by the end of the week and B will wrap up early next week. Do I need to adjust anything?”

      If they change the prioritization, or add more tasks, I reply with If/then/okay format, with a neutral tone. “If I make E my highest priority, then I can have it done by the end of this week, but A won’t be complete until next week. Is that okay with you?”

      Luckily, I’ve had reasonable managers though…

    3. Chaordic One*

      Yes to the advice offered by Borgette. Your co-worker needs her managers to help her establish priorities and to let them know that things are not working.

      If she wants to leave the company, don’t try to dissuade her. In fact, you might want to encourage her to do so as it sounds like she might be better off someplace else where she has managers who will listen to her as well as a more manageable workload. Sometimes it takes having several people leave, before management will actually fix a broken position or procedure. Being sympathetic can be a big help, all by itself.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Keep telling her that this won’t change until she tells someone there is a problem.
      As it stands now, she is sick from her job. I can’t think of a higher motive for her to start this conversation with her boss.

  51. Somniloquist*

    Question for a friend, who is looking at a career change. She was a teacher for years and is now working at a startup doing pedagogy. I’ve suggested she could expand her search to corporations who hire people like sales trainers or corporate trainers. However, I’m not sure how she could break into this role and what experience she would need to be considered for a role. She’s an excellent teacher but I’m not sure how she can market her experience.

    1. Kristie*

      I’m really hoping someone comments with advice/insight because I would like to move in this direction in my career as well.

  52. Junior Dev*

    One person recently left where I work and another has just put in notice. We’ve been doing a pretty good job meeting with them and learning about their work but I’m concerned that with my team going from 9 to 7 people we’ll be stretched too thin (both of the people do/did fairly specialized things) and I don’t know when they’ll hire new people, if at all. Company politics can be slow.

  53. Small Law*

    What is an appropriate notice period for an attorney? I work in a small general practice firm and have reason to believe I will soon have an offer from a different firm. While most of my work is transactional I do have a few court dates over the next few months. 2 weeks does not seem like sufficient time to wrap up and transition my work. For context I would not be able to take my open files with me. What have other attorneys done?

    1. Delta Delta*

      I gave a month’s notice when I left a small firm. A colleague of mine left not long before me and was able to do a 6 week notice (although that felt long).

    2. Lynn*

      When my husband left his private practice (small insurance defense) he gave three weeks notice. A month seemed too long, and three weeks was sufficient for him to updates his last notes to files and ensure that the other associates in his office were able to cover any hearings or depositions.

    3. Pwyll*

      I did 6 weeks for my 5-person firm as an associate. Mostly transactional work and no court dates on my end. It was a bit too long in my opinion, but I wanted to give them more than enough time to work on finding a new associate to support the named partner. They had said they generally ask for 1 month of a transition, though we had recently lost an attorney who gave 2 weeks notice (which effectively screwed us).

      If you’re taking clients with you, I’d aim for 6 weeks. The client notification process took a lot longer than I expected for the guy who only gave us 2 weeks and took a ton of clients. I was lucky in that I went in-house and didn’t have anything to take with me.

    4. It's me*

      I gave one month’s notice, and that seemed to work well – enough time to transition cases, but not so much time that it was dragging out without any real work for me to do.

  54. Small but Fierce*

    I’ve been in my first job out of college for almost 2 years now, but there’s no room for growth and the boss creates a toxic environment. I plan on sticking it out until my 2 year anniversary at the end of the year and then seriously start job hunting. However, a couple of opportunities have fallen into my lap, and I currently have two interviews scheduled next week.

    Although I’m excited, the timing is unfortunate. I’m getting married in a few months. I plan on taking around 2 and a half weeks off for that and the honeymoon. I also may need to take some time off for wedding related planning and activities. Although I know at least one of the jobs I’m being considered for could increase my salary by 20%, I find it hard to justify leaving a job in which I have PTO built up for one that I theoretically will have to take unpaid time off for.

    My questions are:

    1. If I receive an offer, am I in the position to negotiate for a PTO match? Or if that’s too much, could I ask to be granted the amount of PTO I’d need for that time period ahead of it getting accrued?

    2. If neither of these opportunities pan out, should I start actively applying for jobs now if my goal is to start a new job in early 2018?

    Thanks!

      1. Small but Fierce*

        There’s no law for that in my state. It’s a small company; I’m pretty sure they don’t do that.

        1. Snark*

          Ah, too bad. In that case….hmm. Generally, a PTO match is a bit of a big ask. Not unheard of, not unreasonable, but kind of a big ask – I’ve only gotten a PTO match once, and it was because I was being actively recruited by the company and they wanted to crowbar me out of my current position any way they could. I think asking for pre-granted PTO might be a better approach.

          1. Small but Fierce*

            Thanks for your insight! While I was approached by their recruiters, I’m still fairly entry-level and probably don’t have the negotiating power for that big of an ask. One company’s policy lets you borrow up to 40 hours, but you have to pay it back by the end of the year. I wouldn’t be able to accrue that in time with a late October – early November leave, so maybe I can ask for that to be granted in advance without that deadline.

    2. A N O N*

      It’s very common for people to already have planned vacations when they accept a new job. If you get an offer, you can explain the situation and I’m sure they’ll be sympathetic. You can either ask if you can move the start date until after the wedding, or you can ask if you can take the time off unpaid. They may even allow you to use your PTO in advance.

    3. Pwyll*

      Agreed with A N O N, this is very common. Once you get the offer I’d tell them that you’re getting married and talk about the timing of your joining and the honeymoon, etc. Every time that’s happened to us we’ve found a way to make it work, even when we were a bit disappointed that the person either couldn’t start immediately or would be disappearing after a short period. Honestly, if you get an offer from a company that wants to pull back because you’ll be gone for 2 weeks, the company has its priorities wrong.

      For 2: job hunting always takes longer than you expect. Start now, you can always turn an offer down if the timing isn’t right.

      1. Small but Fierce*

        Although I normally wouldn’t, my friend encouraged me to disclose my vacation plans up front since she works at the same company as the recruiting agency that’s working for Employer 1. So the employer moved forward with interviewing me knowing that I would need to take leave, which is reassuring. Ideally I’d love to push a start date off until December or January to get a solid 2 years at my current job on my resume and avoid taking unpaid leave, but that seems very unlikely.

        And yes, I’ve actually already turned down a job offer a couple months ago, so I’m definitely being picky about where I’m headed next. I suppose I’ll keep being open to new opportunities and start actively applying now with the early 2018 goal in mind.

  55. Miss Mac*

    I just wanted to say that I’m really grateful for Alison posting these open threads. I’ve gotten some really great advice, and I feel bad that I never have good solid advice to give back to others. But thank you to Alison and all the commentators for your great advice!

    1. Marisol*

      As someone who has spent a great deal of my earlier life receiving more than giving–starting out as a starving artist out of college with no money or time, let alone wisdom to share with others–it is my joy now to realize I have finally amassed enough life experience to be of service to others in some small way by giving advice, however paltry it may be. If this is your time to receive, then I say, feel good about receiving and trust that the people here who give advice or mentorship do it purely for the joy of giving. You are actually giving to them by being receptive!

  56. Vivien*

    Hi,
    I work in very tech focused job. I have been there for over a year and I have both created and improved reporting systems.I had to learn everything by myself since people who were supposed to help me were less than helpful.

    I got an award even, but no sign of promotion yet. My other coworker on my team who doesnt do what I do and who started later in the company has been promoted. I am happy for her but…her job is more well defined than mine and she has considerable more support than me on her projects (btw it is normal to be promoted in a year in the industry)

    I feel awful because I spend significant chunk of my time, building their reporting infrastructure with no support,and so on..I even learned programming on my own time..and I am still stuck in same place.

    Should I start seeking a new job?

    1. A N O N*

      Talk to your supervisor first. Very often promotions don’t happen until you ask for one.

    2. It's me*

      I think you should, because there is really nothing to lose. You don’t have to leave if you determine that your current situation is better than other opportunities you are able to identify, and you may very well find something better, with more support and a clearer path for career development.

  57. Red Reader*

    On Monday, as I was riding back from a meeting with Director A, I got an email from my boss forwarding me a job posting within our department that she and Director B (my grandboss) both thought I should apply to, though it might be a stretch role. I mentioned it aloud, and Director A agreed with them that I should go for it.

    In re-reading the posting, it specifies that this role will work closely with the Directors of Cream Pitchers and Sugar Bowls — who just happen to be the same Directors A and B who encouraged me to apply.

    Resume and cover letter submitted, though the hiring director isn’t back from vacation till next week, and fingers crossed. (This position would be a two-rung leap up the org chart.)

  58. Admin Help*

    What can I do about an admin who doesn’t know how to do some basic things that would make her (and my) life easier?

    The admin who supports one of my programs (but who does not report to me; she’s actually an EA who has been seconded to my program) has some odd blind spots in her technology use/knowledge that get in the way of her/our work. For example: when new people join the program team, she doesn’t add them to the calendar invites for our recurring meetings (instead forwards them as one-offs), which means that those folks don’t get updates when we make changes (to the room, etc.).

    I’ve addressed some of these things directly, as they’ve happened, and she’ll make corrections to the immediate issue (i.e., she’ll add someone to the calendar invite) but doesn’t change her overall approach (the next time someone new joins the team, she goes back to her old way of doing things).

    The VP she supports just left the organization and she’s in limbo while we hire the VP’s replacement… so at the moment I believe she’s reporting directly to the CEO. The CEO doesn’t need to get in these kinds of weed, obviously.

    Any suggestions on what I can do?

    1. Malibu Stacey*

      Ugh. Can you go to your manager and outline the issues and present it like, “How should I address this? I can’t count on Jane to set up our program meetings in Outlook, as well Issue 2, 3, etc.” She would have more standing to go the CEO than you do.

    2. Snark*

      I dunno. I share your reticence to bother the CEO with this, but if he’s her direct supervisor, it might not be unreasonable. But I think it needs to come from your boss, not from you.

      1. Snark*

        That said, I think it’s entirely reasonable for you to say to her, “Brunhilde, I’ve asked you several times to ask new team members to recurring staff meetings, and you do it in the moment but you don’t add it to your overall workflow when handling meeting scheduling. Moving forward, would you be willing to keep that on your radar, and add new folks to the meeting without being reminded? It’s really important for them to get reminders and see it on their calendar, and it inconveniences them when they’re not added.”

        1. Malibu Stacey*

          I might be wrong, but it sounds like the problem is that the admin doesn’t know *how* to add people to an Outlook distribution list, among other things s/he should know how to do. The obvious solution would be for the admin to try to find out, so requesting that might be more productive. “Have you talked to Sally in HR? She’s great with outlook and I bet she would show you how to add & delete people to outlook DLs as needed.”

          1. Snark*

            Yeah, true. My initial reaction is that Outlook calendar functions are so fundamental to what an admin does that I think it’s on her to figure it out if she doesn’t know. But maybe following on with your script is a good idea, just to cover the bases.

            1. Malibu Stacey*

              I’m an admin, and I agree. Outlook calendar functions can be taught but having the confidence to know what you don’t know and independently seek out solutions is what makes a good admin (imo).

          2. Marisol*

            I wouldn’t refer her to someone else. It takes two minutes, at most, to show someone how to add an invitation to a recurring meeting invite, and sending the admin to Sally in HR strikes me as a little heavy-handed. She could just say, “here watch me do this…voila!” It’s easier for everyone I think, even if training the admin isn’t in the OP’s job description.

        2. Marisol*

          I agree with the strategy, but I definitely wouldn’t use that wording. “I’ve asked you several times…” sounds very parental and hence, demeaning to me, and the rest of it is just overly verbose, hyper-professional, yuck. It’s not a big deal and it doesn’t merit a formal speech. “It inconveniences them when they’re not added” just sounds over the top to my ear. It is technically true that it’s inconvenient not to receive a calendar invite, but..is it really such a grave matter, as inconveniences go? I really don’t mean to be harsh–I apologize if it seems that way–but speaking as an admin myself, that script rubs me the wrong way.

          I’d suggest something like this:
          “Brunhilde, I know you know how to add people to meeting invites, but do you know how to add them to recurring invites? Come have a look at my computer screen and I’ll show you. See, when I click on the invite, I get two options–I can either open this single meeting occurrence, or I can ‘open the series’–see this radio button? it opens all occurrences happening in the future. If you click on ‘open the series,’ then add someone to the invitation list, then it will invite them to all future meetings. When I ask you to add people to the meeting distribution list, what I usually want you to do is add them to the entire series. If you’re not sure, just ask me, but as a general rule, that’s how I want you to handle meeting invites.”

          Also, while it might be that the admin has blind spots, I am not convinced that that is entirely the problem here–it may also be your instructions that need a little improving. I am an admin, and I find that people often expect me to do more inferring than I possibly can. I am rarely provided context for the tasks I do, and without context, things aren’t obvious. Taking this meeting example, it is not unheard of for people to sit in on a specific meeting only. So, did you tell the admin, “add Jane to the meeting distribution list for the strategy meeting”? or did you say, “add her to the weekly strategy meeting”? If you said the latter, then I might interpret that to mean “this specific meeting only.” If people come and go in your department but no one ever briefs Brunhilde on the work the team is doing, or how they fit into the overall departmental staffing scheme, it might not be intuitive to realize they will attend meetings ongoingly.

          So be explicit in your request. I wouldn’t go to anyone else about her performance unless there is insubordination or unless she makes a serious mistake. Every company is different, but where I work, that would be seen as rather amateurish, as you would be expected to have enough management skill to coach someone through sending a calendar invite (or it could also be seen as diva-ish).

          If she already has the skill but is forgetting, then when you make the request you have to remind her until it becomes automatic, “please add Jane to the strategy meeting, and that is for the entire meeting series.” In a perfect world, you would only have to tell her once, and she would be enough of a professional to note it, but such is life. If you find you have to remind her an excessive number of times, then you have a performance problem, and if there are other issues in addition to that, you have grounds to complain to the higher-ups.

          But I would first focus on making requests explicit and concrete, and spend a little energy on reminders at least initially. You could also try to get her to make better judgement calls by briefing her on what the team is doing, so that she’ll have some context from which to draw inferences.

          Hope that helps.

          1. LCL*

            Yes, just show her and make some lists. I have seen this happen when admin staff change duties or are new. They don’t know the specific ways that office does things, and then are criticized because they don’t do what they didn’t know. Someone has to tell her then show her ‘we always use outlook for all of our meetings, this is how you do it.’ Outlook especially, the meeting function is complicated and not wholly intuitive. What OP believes to be odd blind spots re technology are probably admin doesn’t do it the way OP thinks she should because admin has never done it that way.

    3. Pwyll*

      Do you have any written onboarding procedures? Perhaps you can put something together as a checklist of things that new employees for your project need, and include something like (Add new employee to weekly calendar invite via Scheduling Assistant tab).

    4. CMDRBNA*

      I think it’s a two-part problem. The unfamiliarity with tech is one thing. If you have the bandwidth, maybe schedule her for some basic Microsoft Office training or show her how to find answers on the Web (every time I don’t know how to do something I just Google “how to X in Y program,” and since the answer is always out there,I now have a reputation as someone who is “good with computers”) but make it clear that you expect her to master these things.

      The issue of her not changing her overall approach sounds more like a work-style problem. I’d be really clear that when you say that she needs to do X, that means she needs to do X EVERY time moving forward and incorporate it into her workflow.

      1. Marisol*

        You can’t just mandate extra training for someone who is not your employee though. She doesn’t have the standing to do that. To plug this into the context of my one work life, I support the managing director primarily and report to him. I also support some vp’s but do not report to them. If one of the junior guys came up to me and suggested, even gently, that I take some classes so that my skills would be up to snuff to meet THEIR standards, I would be like, oh, indeed? Ha ha ha ha I’ll get right on that… and I am someone who takes every possible class that the company offers, because free training is inherently valuable. I’m not inherently opposed to the idea of training, but I would find the suggestion insulting if it came from someone who wasn’t my boss.

        I think realistically, all she can do is teach the specific skills that she needs the admin to have in order to address the specific tasks that she needs to be performed. Any attempt at a broader solution is an overreach, and any attempt to fob off training to someone else comes across as being elitist (i.e., “please have your peer in HR do that, because I have better things to do that train your ilk!”

        The exception would be if the admin was young, eager, and frank about her lack of experience. Then sending her to classes might be an obvious value-add to her. But I’m not sure that is the case here.

  59. ThatGirl*

    Good news!! I got TWO offers in the past week. It was sort of amazing actually. I accepted the one that was closer to home, in a cooler-sounding company, with more PTO and a sign-on bonus. (Annual pay is a little bit lower, but still more than I was making before.)

    I start a week from Monday and I’m really excited. :) :)

  60. Michelle the Editor*

    A small question about the etiquette around layoffs.

    We just had some fairly difficult layoffs (about 20% of our staff, mostly senior folks who had been with the company for many years), including my manager and all of her direct—except for me. She’ll be around through the rest of the month, and I’m wondering what’s an appropriate way to thank her for hiring and training me at the beginning of my career. Planning on writing a heartfelt thank you card, but would it be inappropriate to also include say, a bottle of wine? Or some fancy cookies?

    1. Ella Minnow Pea*

      I would stick with a note. Wine to me feels celebratory, whereas this is the opposite. If I were in her shoes, a note – plus a sincere offer to help in any way that makes sense as she job-hunts – would mean more than a gift.

    2. Princess Carolyn*

      I agree that wine might seem to celebratory. If you’re close with her, you might consider asking to take her to lunch or dinner to show your appreciation. I think it walks the line between “Here’s some free food, charity case” and “Sincerely, thanks, and here’s a gift because I know you may be in a tough spot.”

    3. Been There, Done That*

      If you feel your appreciation warrants a gift and she’s going to be between jobs, how about a gift card that might help her through? I’m thinking someplace like Target where you can buy groceries as well as other merchandise, so it will be gifty and not like a handout.

  61. Young and Managing*

    I started apply to jobs out-of state because I’m ready to move back home. Any suggestions for having my application stand-out? Is there an way to get around the bias of choosing a local applicant over one that is further away?

    1. A N O N*

      I would make sure to mention in your cover letter that you’re planning on relocating to that area. Addressing it up front should ease any concerns they may have.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think you can get around that bias. If I have two candidates who are equally compelling in every other way, but one lives locally, why would I want to hire the one from out of town? That said, even though you can’t get rid of the bias, you can at least try to avoid being written off completely. The fact that you used to live there (“I’m ready to move back home”) should make you a better candidate than a rando who is applying from out of state. You should definitely include that in your cover letter, so they know you’re serious about moving and not just applying to whatever job.

    3. Anne*

      To be perfectly honest… when I was living at home in NC and applying for jobs in NYC, I listed an NYC-based friend’s address on my resume (with their permission). This was only workable because I had the flexibility to travel up there for interviews with relatively little notice. I know a lot of other people who’ve done the same thing up here, actually.

      1. Young and Managing*

        If you put a friend’s address in your application, couldn’t that come back as odd when they made an offer? I wouldn’t want to look dishonest or that I was trying to deceive anyone. Also, if they ask about where I am currently working, doesn’t that look strange?

        1. Anne*

          In that situation, I said that I had moved to the city and was currently subletting from the friend, but would be getting my own place once I found a full time job. And that’s exactly what I did!

          Buuuut in that situation I was actually unemployed, I kinda forgot about that part in your case!

    4. zora*

      I feel like I have posted this a lot, but be as specific as you can be in your cover letter.

      Example: “I am currently in the process of relocating back to [Town], and plan to be moved by the end of August. I am excited about returning to my hometown, and I am willing to travel at my own expense to interview at your convenience.”

      Obviously, don’t say it if it’s not true, but the more of that you can say, the more likely you’ll be considered. Even if you don’t actually have a move date, give a general timeline. It can always ‘change’ later if you need, but putting an actual date and showing your previous connection to the area go a long way. I said something similar and did get interviews with a company in the city I was planning to move to. They ended up paying for my travel to interview even though I offered, and I did get the job. But don’t avoid the issue or just list a local address, be really specific in the first paragraph of your cover letter.

  62. Billy*

    Anybody who has asked for salary increase…do you have a specific script you use?I want to talk to my boss about it but I dont know how to start.

    1. Pwyll*

      I don’t know about script, but I tried to identify specific examples where I was providing value to the company. If you’ve been there for awhile and your responsibilities have increased or changed, bringing that to the table can also help.

      I was at a company and every time someone left I was tasked with absorbing their work. So, I created a spreadsheet that showed my original responsibilities, and the additions to my responsibilities added on to that, along with another column showing my successes in handling all of the work, to ask that I be compensated at a higher rate for the new responsibilities. Basically, “My work has increased significantly, and I am accomplishing all of my responsibilities as demonstrated by my doing x, y, z. Can we discuss increasing my salary to match the new responsibilities/performance?

    2. BRR*

      I started with “I wanted to talk about my compensation” then listed how my role has already expanded while ago and my achievements and ended up “I would like to discuss increasing my salary to match the scope of my position.”

  63. OlympiasEpiriot*

    Last week I posted a vent (the url to it will be in a reply to this) about my kid’s summer job situation. Update: (1) I learned on Saturday that offspring already knew as they called that manager while they were travelling to confirm schedule and was told No Job. (2) Sunday, offspring back with me and they got to talk with neighbor/contact and got a lead on another job in same industry, but not same kind of place. Much more ‘old-style’: They were told be there at 8am Tuesday for an interview, be prepared though to start work right away, as it is likely. They went, got the job, and I’m keeping my fingers crossed that it works out. So far, they worked Tuesday and Wednesday, had Thursday off, went there this morning for 8am. Supposedly, today they’ll get a schedule.

    I’m still thinking, though, about how different it is now with job searches compared to even 20 years ago. It isn’t just the automated or on-line application with so many companies, nor the part-time/just-in-time-scheduling nature of so many jobs; it seems to be a whole mindset that is different. I never assumed I had bagged a job unless someone said “you’re hired”. But, so many people I know, most much, much older than my kid, have had very similar things happen to them — jobs evaporating after they were certain they’d been hired. Or they’ve been strung along with hiring managers telling them repeatedly “we’ll be sending you an offer”. Or some other scam…’cause that’s ultimately what it feels like: A Scam.

    I’m in my 50’s. I have had a job of one kind or another since I was 12. I delivered boxes of groceries for tips for a neighborhood grocery in a city. I only did it in a three block radius of the store, but a lot of people lived there and I made the biggest tips from elderly women who’d tell me how they had been suffragettes and how nice it was to get their groceries from an athletic girl who carried all of it up the stairs. I have been combing my memory to come up with my supply of interviewing and job hunting anecdotes and all I recall was either getting a job OR being told thanks but no thanks good luck in your search. There was one bistro place in the early 80’s that sort of ghosted, but I figured it out quickly. Many years later, there was a guy from a large US heavy construction firm who interviewed me, but the company was in the process of being taken over by one of those multinational Engineering-Construction behemoths, and the whole process was in flux. The interviews didn’t continue.

    This keeping people strung along thing that seems so common, or even being hired by one person and having a chain of e-mails about it, but then the company just says ‘scram’, seems like some kind of a scam but I can’t figure out what anyone would get out of running it!

    Argh.

    Anyhow, I’m hoping this lasts for the kid, they get good experience, even enjoy it, and are paid decently. I know the kid is hard-working. *sigh*

    2. NaoNao*

      Well, my mom is in a similar position. She was a homemaker for 15 years right out of college, then she’s job searched like 4 times in her life…last of which was 2001 or so. In her experience, you had an interview (after dropping off your resume in person or having a phone conversation through a friend of a friend or the college career center) and then you either got the job or no. She is also confounded at how we got here. So let’s see…

      Here’s what’s changed over the last 30-40 years:
      70’s and 80’s: saw the closing of large industries like steel production, factories, and the like to see those jobs be relocated overseas. Computers became standard at many high level jobs, began trickling down. This was the death knell for the person who had a HS education or lower being able to support a family on one salary. Unions take a huge blow from which they never recover. Huge companies suffer in LBO and hostile takeovers, pensions are raided. Many seniors have to go back to work; people lose their jobs, economy changes permanently.

      90’s: saw a huge influx of big box stores and fast fashion replacing mom and pop stores (where you can just walk in and get a job because the manager likes the cut of your jib). Also “interning” became more of thing, meaning college graduates had a higher level of skill on joining the market and the job market is now that much more competitive

      2000’s: saw a shift from semi-skilled labor or labor that didn’t depend on post-graduate education to knowledge work; meaning you needed not only education but specialized education to do that work
      Oh yeah, and those Baby Boomers that were supposed to retire from those academic jobs? Didn’t retire, or if they did, their tenure line was closed. Meaning the marketplace is now ultra cut throat and tons of PHDs are on the market for a very small number of positions. Meaning you’re in direct competition with someone who has a PHD for a mid-level job many times.

      2008: Great Recession. Many large industries failed or closed up. The market was flooded with over-qualified people desperate for work. Companies could make one over qualified person do the work of four and treat applicants like poo. They stuck with that.

      2010’s: the gig economy and sharing economy emerge. Because sites like Fivver, Task Rabbit, and Mechanical Turk are available for employers, there is no need or little need to hire entry level employees off the street. The adjunct-ification of higher ed continues: more and more PHDs are being minted; fewer full time tenured jobs are available.

      Apps, tech, and tech-adjacent companies, with all that implies (young wizard founders, ultra casual companies, no HR, etc) are ascendant. With tons of money and no real accountability, these companies can treat their potential employees however they like.

      1. OlympiasEpiriot*

        I know the grand sweep of the country’s industrial history; what I don’t get is *why* this is a pattern so many places fall into. It seems like a huge waste of time *for them*. Like, why make a big deal of promising something to someone and then not follow through? Or do inefficient handoffs that result in lots of phone calls or e-mails that end up with you deciding you’re going to waste time hiring other people for the busy season in the middle of it?

        As far as the bosses’ versus job-seekers’ market though, in this case, this industry is actually short of potential employees at the lower ages. Everyone I know in it personally seems to make a big deal about getting kids interested and doing some level of outreach. It takes time to learn and there’s a lot of stuff that isn’t something that can be taught in a tech program. There’s also the fact that people who work in it often have a completely different life pattern and not everyone wants to live like that. So, that’s another reason it seems off about being a jerk with a teen. I mean, so many ppl at the top are complaining about the age bulge over 40.

        Where’s the value for the bosses’ side?

        1. NaoNao*

          Well…not every action companies or bosses take has a direct value. There is tons of waste and inefficiency around hiring and staffing.
          I don’t get why people put up an online dating profile or agree to and buy tickets for an event and then ghost. I don’t get why or what the value is of buying a gym membership and equipment and then never going.
          The only explanation I can think of is: humans, as a race, are inefficient and make bad decisions all the time.

          One of the reasons I went into so much historical detail is because you noted that throughout much of your own job history, going back to age 12, was that you just got the job or not, and (maybe I read too fast) you seemed really stumped on how/why there’s such a huge difference now in today’s economy and why exactly this is happening.

          Many, many people don’t think long term. For whatever reason (personality, tons of “fire drills” in their job, key person got laid off or quit or is on vacation) people tend to make decisions now, today, based on chunks of like 2 hours. So if it takes 10 seconds to forward an email to HR “Kathy: we good?” rather than call Kathy and find out that she can’t actually hire someone or the CEO’s niece just got the job, or whatever, they’ll shoot off an email.

          I have personally been involved in many projects that took HOURS of my time and effort and went *nowhere*…due to fumblings, misunderstandings, change in direction/management, change in company’s products or services, etc.

          I have been asked directly by coworkers or bosses or higher ups to do something and then when I followed up they were like “huh?” or didn’t give me the information I needed to do the task despite multiple attempts to get it.

          I have been told we had a new teammate only to find out that person declined the job or took the job and then found another one a day later (?!).

          Bottom line: there’s no benefit. It’s the cost of doing business to the company.
          They’re probably blowing it. But if they’re still in business, it’s not hurting them.

          1. OlympiasEpiriot*

            Yeah, doesn’t look like a benefit to them. OR their labor force.

            Your experiences sound really frustrating. I’ve been lucky in that most of my work has a very tangible goal. Sometimes a project goes nowhere, but that is after a phase is done. Like we might have put together a conceptual study for an exceptionally deep excavation with cost estimates and the client decides to go back to the drawing board with zoning and the architect to see if there’s another way to fit the space they need into the space they have because they are terrified by the price. But, *our* portion is complete. (Or notably, a blowhard governor decided a particular tunnel wasn’t needed and pulled his support AFTER a helluva lotta engineering had been done, and now we have a crisis that reverberates up and down the east coast but our work for that study was done.)

            It isn’t so much why this is happening in today’s economy, it is why this is happening in our society around work. I think we’ve returned to the 1890’s in some way…people are disposable again.

      2. OlympiasEpiriot*

        Oh and I meant to say, best of luck to your ma. I’ve been at my company for 17+ years and I suspect I’ll be here until I quit and go work for Doctors w/o Borders for a pittance but really high satisfaction. I only know job hunting from others and this site. It seems really rough out there.

    3. Girasol*

      I’ve heard that any HR organization worth its salt will keep talent “in the pipeline” rather than posting frantically when they have an opening and hoping someone good turns up. I always wondered what it would be like to be the talent in someone’s pipeline. Maybe strung along like this?

      1. OlympiasEpiriot*

        For summer jobs?

        Also, with adults, they need a living wage. They need to be employed. They’re not some crude oil that can be stockpiled until there’s a buyer for the refinery output.

  64. Rookie Manager*

    I posted a few weeks ago about my small team disintegrating before me. Of the 5, 1 and 2 are out sick and 3 is about to be fired (95% certain). The good news is I got funding to continue 4’s post and 5 is a great apprentice.

    4 and I are out the office most of next week so the apprentice may end up the sole staff member in the office! I’ve had to create a load of contingency plans I can enact at a moments notice. It’s been a stressful couple of days.

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      Please don’t leave your apprentice alone w/o a lifeline (name & phone # of someone else in the office whom you trust to give good coaching) to call if a problem crops up and you are not reachable.

  65. Maddie*

    I’m so so so bored at work. I do contract work, and was set to leave June 30th when the project was set to end. They came to me a few weeks before and asked to extend the contract 3 months and I agreed.

    However, the project I was working on ended June 30th, as scheduled, and I’ve not been assigned any work since. I’ve talked to my manager and my manager’s manager, and both know I’m at loose ends. I’ve had a few minor requests come up regarding the project I’d just finished, which I did, but other than that I have literally nothing to do. I’ve done maybe 5 hours of work total for the last two weeks.

    I like this company and the pay is fantastic, but I’m seriously considering go ahead and asking my contract be cut short. However, I do Contract Work exclusively and I don’t want to burn bridges. This company is a HUGE employer in my area and once you’ve completed one contract with them with positive feedback you end up on a preferred contractor list for future projects.

    Any suggestions?

      1. Maddie*

        There are a lot, but I just feel so guilty. I’m being paid. I want to be productive!

        I’ve actually been using the time to write fiction (I submitted one story to an anthology the other day), but it is frankly a waste of both my time and theirs. I could easily write at home without the 2 hour drive each way.

        2. Lindsey*

          Ask if you can work from home a couple of days a week. I feel a lot less guilty with little work if I can be out doing other things and not commuting.

    2. Borgette*

      When I started my job a year ago it took two months (!) to get any work, and it’s been slow ever since. This week was especially bad – I’ve done maybe 8 hours of actual work and *might* have something to work on next week.

      For me it helps to be productive and remember that they’re paying us to be available. At the beginning I did a lot of Codecademy and Edx courses. After a month I started a professional blog/portfolio and used work time to sketch teapots and write notes on teapot design for the blog. I’ve started attending some Teapot Science classes, and have been staying up to date on a ton of teapot industry blogs and podcasts. The blog, class, and industry participation are casual enough that I can drop off when things are busy, and pick them back up when work gets slow again.

        1. Borgette*

          No problem!

          One more note – It can be really hard to sustain long-term motivation this sort of self directed work. It’s super helpful to team up or touch base with other people. Don’t beat yourself up if you don’t ‘work’ on productive stuff every day – sometimes learning gets boring and that’s OK!

    3. Been There, Done That*

      It sounds as if you were extended for “just in case.” If so, that’s a job in and of itself because you do have all the empty time but have to be ready to jump in if needed. WHen I was in that situation a couple of times, I kept busy with professional publications I was going to read anyway, taking the organization’s online trainings in areas I knew nothing about, reading the organization’s website (amazing how much more to it than I learned in my particular corner).

  66. Generic Nerd*

    Hey everybody,
    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    I am currently in the middle of trying to find a second job to get me on a more stable financial track but am running into some difficulties figuring out a way to do it that it does not completely exhaust me.

    Currently working a normal 8-5 job so it seems like my options are very limited.

    Would you mind sharing your experiences in getting and having a second job? I need some inspiration.

    1. SophieChotek*

      Well, I have a 8-4:30 job M-F and during the spring I work 5-9:30 grading papers (exams) M-F. It makes for a very full week but the extra income is good, and it’s bearable knowing it is not “forever” and I just have to power through 4-5 months of 60-70 hour weeks. It’s mind-numbing, but not physically exhausting.

      My mother does private ESL tutoring through a company and the pay sounds like it is decent; she works during the day, but it is possible that some of the clients have a desire for night/evening tutoring slots.

      I also work at a coffee shop some evenings/weekends, but I mostly do it for “fun” money since I get paid less than $10/hr there.

      depending on your skill-set perhaps there is some remote free-lance work you could to on your own time/in the evenings?

      1. Borgette*

        How much do you charge for grading papers? There are a lot of universities around, and some extra cash sounds nice…

        1. SophieChotek*

          I don’t set the price – I work for a company that bids (with the dept. of education?) to grade papers. Typical pay is between $12-$20/hr, depending on which company you end up working for. Quester and Pierson I think are both national companies. (I think a few other commenters here have also done similar side-jobs, so they could perhaps chime in with specific companies. Some let you work from home, some make you go to an office where you sit in a big room with lots of computers.)

          that reminds me, an aquaintance of mine in grad school, made very good money as a tutor for ACT, SAT, GRE.) I think some of it was online. I think she worked through the actual company that produces the text book or some other organization but I recall hearing she made quite a bit.

    2. SansaStark*

      I was a host at a nearby restaurant for a couple of years after my regular job. It was a good fit because it was close and never interfered with my day job. The pay wasn’t as good as a more skilled job, but the logistics worked out so well that it was a great way to make a couple extra thousand $ a year.

    3. Popcorn anyone?*

      I was working 7-4 with an hour commute each way. I ended up getting a second job at a Drive In Theater the next town over. It closed around 11pm during the winter- it was tough, but helped meet a few financial goals I had set.

    4. Anxa*

      I did it backwards. I was working part-time, then took a a full-time summer job (juuuust after my part-time job boosted the hours, gave set schedules, and otherwise became a good job).

      I work two nights a week for just 2 hours. It’s worth the money (my wage is higher there). But it’s a lot. I don’t have kids, am not in school. It’s just me, my SO, and our FT jobs. So why these extra 4 hours a week are so rough is beyond me. I’m in my early 30s, so I should have more energy. I work in a education and the student I work with is very exhausting so maybe that’s it. Also, SO share a car so it takes us about 1.5 hrs (including buffer) to commute each way. I get out of my main job at 6pm, so maybe it would feel different if I got home before 730 on my ealry days. On my late days I get home at about 1030

  67. LQ*

    I’m really tired today and when my boss said we might not be able to do the thing he and I were meeting on I was like Oh whatever! I wanted to throw up my hands. I mean I just said, “That’s fine, here’s the way this impacts the projects and the other options.” But I wasn’t my normal that’s fine and I get it self about it. Like I get it, but I’m too tired to not be a little crabby about it. And I want to go home early today.

    Other than setting a good precedent 99% of the time, how do you handle the times when you’re sick or tired or out of sorts and don’t do what you would normally?

    1. It's me*

      I know this struggle well, especially lately. My strategy is to say less than I normally would if I am meeting with someone in person (the theory being that coming across as quieter than normal is better than saying something I normally wouldn’t that is brusque, bristly, etc), and via email, to write a draft reply, then give myself 10-20 minutes before coming back to it, re-reading it, and making sure I don’t need to edit for tone before sending (assuming that lag time in response is acceptable, which in my role it generally is).

      1. LQ*

        This is good. An extra 15 minutes is nearly always acceptable for my role so I think I’ll make that more of a thing. Thank you!

  68. Soon to be Gone Girl*

    I need some help with an Exit Strategy NOT based on performance. I just had a very difficult conversation with my manager, and we basically agreed that I could not live with certain changes and she could not work with what I proposed. It’s sort of stuck there for now.

    Some background: My employer just moved to a new location in a very expensive city. This move amounts to a substantial increase in commuting time/transportation costs/taxes for the employees being relocated to this office, and the company does not offer any incentives to ease this. In addition, our previously very flexible work-from-home policy (which may have made the costs & commutes bearable in the city) is now being rescinded and the CEO wants “bodies in the office 5 days a week” no matter what.

    I should also point out that the nature of my work can be done remotely and, except for meetings, I can do the work anywhere I have a computer and email. I’ve attempted to bring up viable work alternatives such as going to a contractor-consultant status, where the employer can’t really dictate where the work is performed (and you can deduct the parking expenses), but they also found this unacceptable and want someone in 5x per week (I was proposing to be onsite 2x). Previously, working at home was something very accepted and even encouraged by this company. I and many others have successfully done so for some years, though I also often did go in to the other location because I liked it there. A small number of employees don’t even live near the office and work remote all the time (and nothing is changing for them) so the 5x per week rule is not applied consistently.

    It really sucks. I HATE working in this city, HATE “paying” to go to my job, but I hate to leave an otherwise good job I like over this. But such inflexibility is driving me away and I’m sure I won’t be the only one as a result of the relocation. I’ve read the AAM “Exit Strategy” article, but wonder if anyone might have any other alternatives they might suggest or if it’s simply time to accept and move on following the exit strategy.

    1. Snark*

      I think it’s pretty reasonable to leave over a policy change that negatively affects you. I think you can make that clear to your boss, and I think it will be understandable. “I really like my work and am happy in this position, but the recent decision to rescind remote work and require all employees to be in the office will result in an increase in my commute time of X hours per week, and will cost me Y dollars per week in train/subway/whatever fares.” I think you could make a last-ditch request for a pay/PTO hike or a COLA, but if you do leave over this, I think it’s understandable.

      Unfortunately, while it’s dying out, this nonsense about “bodies in the office” is still alive and well, especially among older managers and executives who can conveniently insulate themselves from the inconvenience.

    2. fposte*

      I’m not sure this is worthy of a grand Exit Strategy, even; this is just a reason to quit. Your office moved to a new, much farther location, and though you tried to make it work, it didn’t. Since your boss knows you’re unhappy with the situation, it would make sense to be open with her about the transition if you think you can trust her to handle it well, but you’re not obliged to.

      1. Aitch Arr*

        This.

        I left a job I loved and had been at for 8 years because they relocated the office. My 45 minute commute would have become a 2 hour one, no exaggeration.

    3. Drew*

      If you haven’t explicitly said, “This change in policy probably means I’ll be looking for a new position,” you might tell your boss exactly that. Assuming you’re a strong performer they would prefer to keep, that might be the leverage she needs to go back upstairs and get you a variance. And if not, you’ll know you tried and can look with a clear conscience.

  69. Episkey*

    I know we have had quite a few questions on this recently, but here is my situation and I’m not sure how to go about navigating it…

    I am pregnant with my first child and am due in early November. I work for a real estate agent as an assistant. In turn, the agent I work for is part of a larger brokerage (think international chain) and our local office is owned by a broker. All of the agents are independent contractors — I’m not, I’m technically a full-time employee employed by an outside management group because my boss did not want to have to handle payroll & such on her own.

    Because of how the whole real estate industry works, I do not think I am eligible for FMLA for anything like that and they are not required to provide me with a space for pumping, etc when I return to work (which I’m planning to at this point).

    I have a generally good relationship with my boss and figured we would work something out for leave when I have the baby. Yesterday we were talking casually about the whole thing and she said a few things that have left me feeling a little anxious. First she said that she didn’t have the “luxury” of taking much time off when she had her children, and she wasn’t sure how much time I wanted or needed. Then she said I would also need to decide if and how much I wanted to work while at home with the baby — there are several things that I can rather easily from home — she mentioned, “I don’t think you will really want to do anything for the first 1-2 weeks.”

    Before this conversation, I was thinking I would take the normal amount of FMLA time given in the US (12 weeks) and not really do any work. But I was so taken aback when she said the “1-2 weeks” bit that I just didn’t say much more of anything. Like I said, first baby and I have NO idea what to expect, but I really don’t think I’m going to want to even worry about work for at least the first…month? I mean, ideally I would like the 12 weeks without distraction, but if that doesn’t work out, I don’t know. Now I am worrying.

    In addition, I spoke to our broker briefly a couple weeks ago about a space I could use for pumping. We have a small conference room in our building that hardly ever gets used (we are in a smaller secondary building across the street from the main building which is much more busy) — I thought that would be ideal. All of the offices and that conference room have solid glass walls/doors, floor to ceiling, but a little while ago, the broker had the glass frosted to about 4′ high from the floor. I asked if we could install temp blinds or shades I could close when pumping but he didn’t want to do that (he said something about that would put holes in the walls). He said he would be able to have the glass frosted up a little higher on that conference room walls/door. I am a little anxious this still wouldn’t really give me a ton of privacy, but I don’t know how much I should or can push since he is not legally obligated to do anything — technically I don’t even work for him.

    Any advice/thoughts? I’m a little bit of a worrier anyway and this is making me get rather anxious. Thanks!

    1. Zinnia*

      I’d really like to see Alison look into this question with her employment lawyer contacts. Really interesting complications in your situation.

    2. Regular Lurker*

      How big is the outside management company that actually employs you? Do they provide your benefits? If so, you should look at their leave policies. They may be big enough for FMLA to apply.

      1. Sunshine Brite*

        That’s what I thought as well, you mention that you’re technically their employee. What are their policies?

        1. Friday*

          Do they have an HR department you can connect with? HR is usually the one who fills employees in on all benefits offered.

      2. Episkey*

        I’m actually not really sure — they have a few main employees who work at their office, but I think it’s only about 5 people. Then they do payroll, basic HR type things, etc for other types of employees like me — when the people who are actually “employing” us do not want the headache of paperwork, taxes, payroll.

        I have a few very basic benefit through them — life insurance (only $10,000) and a STD policy that is also pretty crappy as well — I called them about using it when I had a minor surgery last year and it doesn’t kick in until you are out of work for 2 weeks, which is basically useless.

        However, I don’t have sick days or PTO or anything like that — that would be up to my boss if she wanted to extend those types of benefits. It’s really kind of a weird set-up/combo.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Before this conversation, I was thinking I would take the normal amount of FMLA time given in the US (12 weeks) and not really do any work. But I was so taken aback when she said the “1-2 weeks” bit that I just didn’t say much more of anything. Like I said, first baby and I have NO idea what to expect, but I really don’t think I’m going to want to even worry about work for at least the first…month?

      So you haven’t discussed how much time you’d like to take off? You need to do that, like, yesterday.

      My own personal anecdata is that I took six weeks off completely, and then worked half-time for the next six weeks. I didn’t get a lot done, but it was a good way to transition back into work.

      I asked if we could install temp blinds or shades I could close when pumping but he didn’t want to do that (he said something about that would put holes in the walls).

      There are temporary paper blinds (search for Redi Shade) that work really well. This could be a good compromise.

    4. Agile Phalanges*

      Definitely seek professional advice on the leave situation, but for blinds, you could use tension rods or even the large post-it notes they make for easels in group meetings, etc, on the windows from the inside. Then, as long as the door lock, you have instant, yet temporary (even use-by-use, though of course semi-permanent while you’re using it as a pumping room would be easier) privacy.

  70. SandrineSmiles (France)*

    I work in a notary’s office.

    You have the four main associates, their assistants who may or may not be clerks, and then clerks and… other people.

    I’m the afternoon receptionist. Main tasks: welcome people who come in for meetings, answer the phone and re-route calls or take messages, send an e-mail with a timestamp of said messages. Simple enough, right ?

    I do have ONE HUGE GRIPE. I wish families would get a grip when taking care of certain cases. There’s one case now where it feels like every family member involved is calling once a day. I wish they’d coordinate now. When I call the notary’s assistant, I now use an extra sugary voice to announce who is calling… sometimes it feels like she is going to explode like a pressure cooker.

    Then, people who are rude. Usually, when someone calls and has an urgent matter to discuss, I’m supposed to try and find someone who can talk to them. If you’re rude, you can bet I’m mostly going to offer to take a message (I’m good at that lol, sometimes I ask so much info I get everything written down – oops, gotta work on that) .

    Then you have people who send an e-mail (be it to ask about archived plans, like after the notary has helped with selling an apartment, or for something else) and think that we can get to it right away. Bonus: the guy who called about A MINUTE after sending his e-mail. The best ones are the ones who want plans though. We have one archivist. Sometimes people ask for plans of properties sold in the 60’s. Yeaahhh sure if you send the email at 10 AM we can get this to you at 11… NOT.

    It’s only been two full weeks xD . My probation period ends at the end of the month. Honestly, what’s funny in all this is that the notarys, the clerks and the assistants are the most polite out of everyone I interact with.

    Whenever I make a minor mistake that I get replied to through e-mail, I send an apology and thank the person for them explaining things to me. On Wednesday this resulted in the top notary (the one the office is named after) to tell me “Don’t worry, you’re going to make it.” Given how she is sometimes, I thought this was extremely sweet, even though I’m still going to give this my all.

    Dang. It feels GOOD to have so much to say xD . I’m always torn between “I can’t WAIT to go to work” and the usual “Blergh, don’t wanna go” but then I remember everything I’ve been through and I go happily.

    Especially as I have a three day weekend today as it’s a bank holiday in France kekekekekekekeke.

    Take care everyone :)

    1. Marisol*

      You sound pretty sharp! Wish you could replace my awful coworker who took a message for my boss, emailing him that a person named “John Juan” called. (Hello? Those are the same names in different languages. No one is named “John Juan”, FFS! And she speaks Spanish and should know this!!) I am sure your accuracy and work ethic are appreciated!

  71. Long time lurker*

    So I’m not really lookingfor advice, just venting. Although if anyone has feedback I wouldn’t say no.
    My boss just makes me feel… uncomfortable. The thing is I couldn’t really tell you why. My gut tells me that something is wrong, and after doing some soul-searching, I trust it. I wondered if I had a problem with authority or if I’m biased in some way, and I don’t think that’s the case. But I can’t bring up any concrete evidence (not including something that happened to one of my coworkers a while back, but that’s been addressed by his management).
    The turnover rate here is really high so the higher ups keep saying that they’re open to feedback. But I don’t know that telling them about how I feel about my boss would be a good idea even if I had something concrete. All I know is that my work day is more enjoyable when he’s not here.
    Just. Ugh.

    1. Havarti*

      Out of curiosity, what would you hope for as an outcome of saying something to the higher-ups? Are you looking for your boss to be fired or demoted? For you to be moved elsewhere within the company? It’s possible no amount of evidence would fix the situation anyway and your best solution would be finding a job elsewhere. :/

      1. Long time lurker*

        Now that you mention it I guess my hope would be that he’s let go. Which sounds horrible. But that’s the honest answer.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          He’s not going to be let go without something wayyyyyyy more specific. And really, there’s nothing here so far that they could act on, not even in smaller ways. You’d have to figure out specifically what the issue is (and it couldn’t really just be a gut feeling).

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Creepy feeling? (like a sexist, leering type) or just don’t like or trust in general?
      Something done to you, or just things you see or hear?

      I do know what you mean, sometimes you can’t pinpoint it. I had that feeling about one of my bosses, and it took a while, but I then again I also had some evidence too that he was throwing me under the bus.

      1. Long time lurker*

        Not creepy. I’ve overhead some things and I know a lot of other people have issues with him. I don’t think that’s what’s causing my uneasy feeling though. Maybe it’s because he seems kind of shady? I actually caught him lying to his bosses twice a few months ago.

    4. whatshername*

      I actually just submitted a question about a really similar situation! So I totally understand. It took me a couple months to figure out what was bothering me – but when I did, it was a huge issue. I’m still not sure how to handle it, honestly, hence the question to Alison. But I would say definitely trust your instincts.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Last time I saw something like this boss was having a personal, marriage-ending problem at home. All the upset around the boss was because of people gossiping about the problem or the latest mean thing the boss did. Like you are saying, I just felt uncomfortable around boss. I definitely picked up on the fact that everyone was on edge.
      It was years later that I learned about the nature of the difficulty.

      It’s funny/odd because like you I thought I was throwing some bias into my observations. I had nothing concrete to point to, just a general sense of tension. And yeah, people quit on a regular basis.

      On a good day do you like the job? If so, just focus on the work and keep doing your best. The problem may break up and go away. Or it could be still going on a year from now. Decide how long you will wait for it to clear up. Don’t offer any feedback until you have witnessed something first hand. Don’t repeat stories you hear, probably half of them are not true, they are just someone’s perception of what they THINK is going on.

      Right now you are in a good spot. Because you are new, everyone thinks of you as neutral. Enjoy that for the moment. Realize going forward that it will change some what and decide not to get dragged into whatever it is.

  72. Bunhead*

    My best friend works at an ad agency in NYC and wants to move from the legal side to the creative side (not a promotion, but a lateral move from one department to another). He has the skills and resume to do it – in fact has much more experience in creative and production- but isn’t sure how to approach this with his manager since the legal dept is understaffed.

    The atmosphere is EXTREMELY laidback and casual, so the advice I suggested based on my own experience (set up a formal performance review and prepare a list of goals, notes, and accomplishments) might appear stuffy and out of touch with the company atmosphere. How can he try to make this transition? Should he give up hope here and job search instead? How can you casually email your manager with a request to discuss different opportunities?

    For reference we are both recent grads in our early 20s.

  73. over educated*

    I’m trying not to get upset about not being invited to meetings on topics that are literally the core of my job description. I know why it is, and it has to do with the hierarchical way our office operates rather than anything personal or dissatisfaction with my work. I know that I need to just ask to join in the cases where I think it is important, because people almost always say “oh sorry of course we want you to come,” I really do only ask when it’s relevant. But it just makes me feel like “why am I even here?” On the bright side, in a conversation yesterday my boss mentioned the possibility of a job title change for the second year of my term, which is good because my current title might not translate well to other sectors.

    My networking update is that my efforts of the last couple weeks have failed. I emailed someone in another division in my org last Friday to ask if she would be willing to speak with me about her job and career path, and she hasn’t replied. I also replied to a message from a former classmate saying she is leaving her job for a new opportunity to say congratulations and also let her know that I’m looking so I’d appreciate it if she might speak with me about the job she’s leaving, but no reply. Too aggressive? Sigh. And there’s an alumni meetup after work tonight, but it’s at an outdoor event and the forecast is for insanely hot weather, thunderstorms and hail. I’ll try to send out another email request today but I’m not feeling as optimistic about this networking thing as I was a couple weeks ago.

    1. overeducated*

      Update: alumni event was to start at 5:15. We had thunderstorms and pouring rain 4:30-6:30. Assuming I’m probably not the only one who bowed out.

      Better luck next time maybe. Interesting development – another former classmate made a secret Facebook group for alumni of our phd program who are working or trying to work outside academia, and it sounds like several people are further along the path of preparing for the kinds of industry jobs I’m looking into. I hope there are lots of those jobs!

  74. Lalaith*

    I commented two weeks ago about how my employers were trying to find me more work to do and didn’t, so I was about to have a “separation conversation” (https://www.askamanager.org/2017/06/open-thread-june-30-july-1-2017.html#comment-1541918). Well, they actually did hold off on it until after my vacation, but it happened on Monday. My last day is July 24 (a Monday, awkward but it’s one more paid day). The good: I think I can call this a layoff, since their official story is that they didn’t have enough work for me and they surely won’t be replacing me. They have nothing negative to say about me, so I will get good references. My husband is a teacher and gets August off, so I’ll get to spend time with him, which we can enjoy if we’re not too stressed about money :-P The bad: Stressing about money. I’m not getting any severance aside from vacation payout. I asked for it, but their position is that they’ve been paying me to do very little for at least the last 6 months, and how do I argue against that? I have no negotiating power here. They won’t contest unemployment, but I’m not sure how much that will be. I have some savings. But I also bought a house 6 months ago. So… well, it sucks. Wish me luck in finding something new quickly!

    1. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I’m in a similar situation, but so far my immediate supervisor has not reported my lack of work up the food chain. I don’t have much to offer except sympathy, and also to suggest you head down to your local unemployment office to see what kind of benefit you can get from them. That will at least give you some more information to help you plan your next steps. Hang in there!

  75. Stephanie*

    Hi everyone! I’m about halfway through my internship. My department’s executive director invited me to sit in on a quality review with the Group Vice President (basically, the EDs from all the different skill teams like IT, Manufacturing, etc report out to the VP). I didn’t have to present or speak, I just was a guest in the meeting (and briefly introduced myself at the start). The ED did say that I could email my thoughts on the meeting after the fact. I took some general notes.

    Do you guys have any suggestions as to the types of things I could email about? I don’t HAVE to, but I was just curious as to the types of things I would comment on from a meeting like that.

    1. Havarti*

      I’d go with commenting on things I really liked about the meeting, found interesting, and had a question on. “So-and-so’s presentation was really concise and clear so I had no trouble following along despite my lack of knowledge on teapot handles. I didn’t realize teapot handles were so closely linked to teapot lids. However, I thought teapot spouts would be related to the lids and yet that doesn’t seem to be the case. Where could I get more info on that?”

    2. NoodleMara*

      You could also make some comments about the company culture. It’s sometimes hard to tell what’s really going on as an intern, but maybe it made things more clear?

  76. Flying advice?*

    I’ll be flying out to a conference in a few weeks, my first flight in over a decade. Anyone got any advice for me?

    1. Teapot Librarian*

      Take an empty water bottle with you and fill it after you go through security. Wear shoes that slip on and off easily.

    2. T3k*

      Empty water bottle (after the security checkpoint, most airports will have either a fountain or a nearby food place that will fill it for you). Make sure to take any loose items off in case you go through a checkpoint that requires it, like a jacket, shoes, etc.

      Also liquids: if you wear contacts, you can bring a large bottle through security as long as it’s not a hydrogen peroxide based solution. But if you fear they’ll throw that out or it’s a short trip, several brands sell travel size ones.

      For luggage, get TSA approved locks (it should say in the description if it is). Basically they have a small hole on the bottom for TSA keys to unlock if they do an inspection on your luggage.

      1. If I were meant to fly I'd have wings.*

        Great idea on the empty water bottle. I hate paying $5 for a bottle of water.

        I was just saying how happy I was I switched to daily disposable contacts so I don’t have to carry solution, but then realized the contacts themselves are in liquid. (It’s only a few days so I’m not worried about not having enough room in my quart bag.

        1. T3k*

          Theoretically you can bring as many as is “reasonable” for your trip, as it’s considered a medical item, so there shouldn’t be any problem there. :)

          As for food on the further down comment, if it’s a liquid/paste, it will count towards your 1 quart bag. So, for example, if you wanted to bring Nutella, it’d have to be 100ml or less and in the quart bag.

    3. Ghost Town*

      For the most part, you can take food through security. I like to have something with me, even if it is only a banana and a few trail mix bars. I also try to arrive early enough to eat a “real” meal before my flight. You never know when you’ll need food but not be able to easily access it.

      Ditto the water bottle.

    4. CityMouse*

      I struggle with airsickness and I highly recommend making sure you eat before the plane and having crackers and water in the plane.

      1. If I were meant to fly I'd have wings.*

        I’ll definitely bring my own snacks – I’m super picky.

        So, do I have it right that toothpaste is a liquid, but fresh fruit isn’t?

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Toothpaste doesn’t count as a liquid. At least, no one has ever stopped me for toothpaste. To be honest, I haven’t been stopped for much of anything in the last several years. I always keep my travel-sized liquids in a separate plastic case, but I keep my liquid foundation, lip gloss, etc. in my regular travel makeup bag.

          Remember to take off your belt and shoes when you’re putting everything through security. If you have a laptop, it has to go in a separate bin. However, my best piece of pre-security advice is to pay attention to the people in front of you and listen to any announcements, because every airport does things differently. Sometimes you get picked to go through what I call “shoes-on” lines. Sometimes they’re trying out that bizarre (to me) “throw-everything-into-this-giant-bin-and-shove-it-forward” method. Some agents ask you to remove liquids, some don’t.

          1. Peanut*

            I had two full size, new, tubes of toothpaste in my carry-on and i got stopped by security. They said it’s a gel and my options were to toss them or check my bag. I tossed them, but I still feel bad that I had to.

        2. Sled Dog Mama*

          toothpaste is weirdly subjective, I’ve been told it doesn’t go in the liquid bag by some, and told it does by others, same with chapstick and stick deodorant

          1. If I were meant to fly I'd have wings.*

            The TSA page specifically says stick deodorant isn’t liquid, but I’ve heard lots of stories of folks saying it has to be in the bag. Consistently inconsistent.

          2. Elizabeth West*

            I put it in the bag just to be safe. It’s a pain in the patootie to have to reshuffle everything while still in the line. Half the time, I forget to take my quart bag out anyway and they have to remind me.

        3. Evan Þ*

          I’ve always put travel-sized toothpaste tubes in my quart bag; not sure if that’s required, though.

          I’ve always had fresh fruit separate, and it’s been fine.

        4. writelhd*

          Generally yes. You are *allowed* to have fruit’; however, If you’ve got a particualrly watery apple buried in the bottom of your carry on there’s a change they miiiiight flag your bag for a manual search if it looks too dense on the x-ray. I’ve found that small/regional airports are worse for flagging random stuff like that which you’re allowed to have but which looks a little weird on the scanner, than big busy airports. I’ve had my carry on flagged for a manual search when it had books in it that were too dense. (I’m talking like a 3″ hardback scifi/fantasy tome…)

          If that happens (with fruit, or a really thick book)…no big deal so don’t panic, the agent just had to pull the bag off the conveyor belt and look through the bag by hand. It adds time, but you aren’t in trouble, or going to lose your stuff.

        5. snowflake*

          I recently traveled for work with a coworker who had his full size toothpaste confiscated at security so I would consider it a liquid to be safe.

    5. Stephanie*

      Dress in layers. Planes/airports can be freezing or warm. I usually like to wear a large scarf when I fly so I can use it as a shawl if it’s cold. Wear shoes you can take off easily.

    7. Aitch Arr*

      Buy some noise cancelling headphones. Bose makes the best ones, but they are pricey.

    8. Drew*

      If it looks like your job will be asking you to fly more than once a year, you might invest in TSA Pre; I fly several times a year and the cost of the screening is WELL worth the savings in hassle. You don’t have to disrobe in front of people, you don’t have to disassemble your carry-ons, and the lines are usually shorter and faster. But if you don’t expect to fly a lot, it’s probably not worth it to you.

      A refillable water bottle is a great idea and easy-to-don shoes help a lot. If you’re checking a bag, consider packing one change of clothes (or at least fresh socks and undergarments) in your carry-on, plus a small deodorant stick – not a spray or a gel – just in case your luggage tours the Caribbean without you. I always keep a charging battery for my phone and tablet with me, in case of substantial delays; you can’t count on the airport having easy-to-access electrical outlets and the ones they DO have are likely to be in high demand. I use a couple of different kinds from Anker but there are tons of brands out there.

      I know lots of people swear by the horseshoe-shaped travel pillows but they just make my neck sweat. If you need the rest, though, it’s worth trying one.

      If your airline offers flight alerts by email or text, sign up for them; they can save you a long wait at the airport if you know ahead of time that your flight will be significantly delayed. That said, you want to be there early even if you’re CERTAIN the security theater won’t be the full five acts, just because Things Happen and the day you cut it close will be the day that an entire fencing squad ahead of you wants to keep their epees in carry-on luggage.

      Very few flights will have any real food options, so if you’re going to be flying during your regular meal time, it isn’t a bad idea to pack a sandwich. Most airport restaurants have pre-packaged food available but it tends to be expensive and not super healthy, and if a LOT of people are delayed, they might run out. I’m lucky to have a home airport with lots of very tasty local food options in the concourse, so I almost always plan to get there early enough to have a sit-down meal before I leave unless the timing is very weird, but I know some people are stuck with fast food and sketchy pub grub. I don’t know of any airlines that will bat an eye at you bringing your own food on the plane; they know they aren’t feeding you and they’d rather have passengers who aren’t hangry.

      I’ve often found that when I have some extra time, a 15-minute chair massage is JUST the thing I need to relax for the flight. It’s amazing what a little bit of pampering can do right before you’re stuck on a plane for hours.

      Don’t count on being able to work on the plane, if you were thinking about that. Sometimes you’ll luck out and have the room you need, but more often the airlines have reduced the space between seats to the point that you can’t even really open a laptop properly anymore.

      Noise-reducing or noise-canceling headphones are worth the investment, if you can spare the money (and they’re getting cheaper).

      1. If I were meant to fly I'd have wings.*

        Good tip on the text alerts. should be obvious, but under the category of things that did not exist (or at least weren’t common) last time I flew.

        The what is and isn’t a liquid stuff is fascinating.

        1. Parenthetically*

          I just assume it’s all liquid because airports are SO freaking inconsistent about what does and doesn’t count. If it spreads, squeezes, or sprays is the rule of thumb I’ve heard, and I stick to it.

          General tip: double-check your carry-on pockets before you pack to make sure nothing from a previous car trip is in there that might get you flagged. And if you’re bringing anything unusual, you can tweet @tsa and ask if it’s ok to bring on board and/or how to pack it properly. They’re really responsive on social media.

    9. voluptuousfire*

      Compression socks. I recently traveled abroad and found my feet and ankles swelled up during the flight. I could feel them in my slip on(hey!) shoes I wore on the plane, which are a bit loose. Also slippers/flip flops to wear on the plane. Luckily the hotel I stayed in had really cute slippers, so I stole them and wore one pair on the plane. :)

      Also melatonin if you’re flying internationally. It’s a dietary supplement that mimic the melatonin your body naturally produced and can help you sleep.

      Also seconding the large scarf. I brought a leopard print pashmina type gauzy scarf on my trip and it was fantastic– served as a blanket, neck wrap and headscarf to prevent sunburn.

    10. valc2323*

      I learned on my last trip that foil packets look like liquids on the x-ray machine — I keep a couple of packs of oral rehydration salts (like powdered gatorade but without the flavoring agent) in my travel bag, and they pulled me for a manual search because of them. First time I’ve had that happen, and those foil packets have been in my travel bag for years! Now they go in the quart bag too.

  77. Teapot Librarian*

    I had an employee tell me that he was disgusted by an action that I took and that he’s disappointed in me. The action I took? I threw away some 3 or 4 year old newspapers. I sort of wish I’d had the presence of mind to respond that I was disappointed in him.

      1. Teapot Librarian*

        Oh, he explained why he was upset that I threw away the newspapers. I disagree with his rationale, though. I don’t remember if he said he was disgusted before the explanation and disagreement or after.

          1. Teapot Librarian*

            Because he was going to go through them and clip articles for our vertical files. But clearly he is never going to have time to do that, and NO ONE uses the vertical files.

            1. AnotherLibrarian*

              I actually kinda have some sympathy for your employee. As someone who has old newspapers in a box waiting for a student without another job to go through for clipping purposes, I think you should have at least given him some notice this was your intention before dumping them. Maybe 30 days to clip or they go.

              1. Teapot Librarian*

                1. These were not the only newspapers that have been lying around waiting to be clipped. 2. When we have students, they have real, substantive work to do. 3. The newspapers were 3 or 4 or more years old. We have a box full of clipped but not filed newspaper articles that go back at least 5 years. The clipping was not going to happen.

              2. Teapot Librarian*

                Sorry, I just realized my response was pretty defensive. I do appreciate the additional perspective. You might be able to tell that there is more going on between me and this employee than just some upset about me tossing old newspapers so having a rational opinion on his side IS helpful to me.

                1. AnotherLibrarian*

                  No worries. :) There’s things around here I would adore to be able to trash, but I have to wait until no one is looking. I would agree that it sounds like there is more going on with your relationship with this employee though. “Disgusted and disappointed” are odd things to say about your boss to say to the least.

              3. tigerStripes*

                Even if this was inconvenient for the employee, being “disgusted” seems harsh.

            2. fposte*

              Yeah, that’s a hoarder answer for sure. I bet he was going to send some of those recipes to somebody, too.

              (Vertical files? I’m a crap weeder and even I got rid of ours years ago.)

              1. AnotherLibrarian*

                See, I find this fascinating. Our vertical files get referenced weekly, if not daily. I don’t know what we would do without them. They are so critical to our mission. I can’t imagine not maintaining them. I guess this just goes to show that it depends on the collection and the users. :)

    2. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Oh lord, if he’s “disgusted” by that, I hate to see how he responds to things that actually warrant that level of emotion.

    3. fposte*

      Is this one of these library employees who can’t cope with weeding? They’re like animal rescues that are really hoarders.

      1. Tuckerman*

        SO true. When I’m tossing weeded books (outdated material), people look at me like I came straight out of Fahrenheit 451.

      2. Teapot Librarian*

        It’s worse: he’s an archivist who’s a hoarder. We’re supposed to have the ability to make appraisal decisions, and he seems to think that everything has permanent value. I’ve just drafted a collection policy for my organization’s library component, and I can’t bring myself to show it to him, because it explicitly mentions weeding and the current need for weeding. (I do realize that as his boss I shouldn’t be scared of him. It’s just there’s a limit to how much pushback I can handle in a single day.)

  78. La Revancha del Tango*

    Managers – would you let your trustworthy employee of 4-5 years take a 6 week unpaid vacation and still have their job back when they return?

    1. Matilda Jefferies*

      I would need more information to make a decision, but based on what you’ve written here, I would lean to yes.

      Are you the manager of the person who is asking for the leave? What would be the barriers to letting them do it?

    2. Small but Fierce*

      Not a manager, but I certainly don’t see why not if there’s coverage available. Benefits like that are part of how companies retain trustworthy employees IMO.

      Also, I wouldn’t approve a 6 week vacation if your intent is to let them go because of it. That goes against the gesture of approving it.

    3. JBean*

      Yes. As long as the work was covered and it wasn’t a significant burden on other employees.

    4. Lora*

      Yes. My trustworthy employee works his butt off, he’s put in more than three weeks of overtime to earn it.

    5. edj3*

      That wouldn’t be my call to make. My company has well defined policies around leaves of absence. Certainly, my opinion would count but I couldn’t make that happen for my direct report on my own.

      1. LCL*

        Same here. My company would allow it but it would take HR involvement for it to happen. And forms. There’s always forms.

    6. Havarti*

      People in my company habitually go on vacation for a month or so to return to their home country and spend time with their families. Sometimes they have to take LWOP to make it happen but they are permitted to go.

      Provided they were upfront about needing the time off, took the time to finish up/hand off whatever was needed, and the rest of the staff could pick up the slack, why not? Don’t get caught thinking if they’re going somewhere (or doing something) frivolous, they don’t deserve to go. It may be that after 4-5 years, they need a break or a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity has presented itself.

      However, if doing so threatens their job, you should say so immediately rather than giving them extra rope to hanging themselves with. Of course then you may lose the employee but that’s what the company would deserve.

    7. LQ*

      Ability to take a sabbatical is on my list of benefits I wish I had. It might be one I want enough to advocate for at my current workplace, though it is highly unlikely. I’d say yes. I’d hesitate if someone hadn’t been there for long, but I feel like 5 years is when you start to say yes to those things. Assuming you want to keep them.

    8. La Revancha del Tango*

      Thank you all for the positive answers! For those that asked, I would be the one asking for a long vacay. Traveling for an extended period of time has always been a goal. I highly disagree with how short our vacation time in the states is and how much we focus on working. I’ve had friends whose companies offer sabbaticals every couple of years but unfortunately mine does not. My boss is a very high level executive so he can make things happen.

      1. Aitch Arr*

        Just be prepared that you might be put on a Personal Leave, which may flip you to an inactive employment status. That can affect benefits. Ask your HR department.

    9. Stephanie*

      Not a manager, but my friend just did it at her job (I think it was six weeks). She’s been at her company about seven years and ended up doing a couple of weeks unpaid and working remote for part of it. You know your company/manager, but it’s probably how you spin it (and assure your boss that you’ll have everything wrapped up before you go).

    10. Anon for this*

      I would certainly consider it. Actually, we did let an employee take a 5 week leave earlier this year. He hadn’t been back to his home country in 15 years (!) and was finally able to due to some visa stuff finally being processed. He’s our best employee and we wanted him to be able to have that time off, especially due to the circumstances. But I would consider it for any high-performing employee.

    11. soupmonger*

      I had an employee of 18 months ask me for a 4-month unpaid sabbatical. I agreed to it and she kept her job. We are a small business (12 employees) – I like to run a business which can be flexible around the needs of our employees (and hope that they can be similarly flexible around our needs). So yes, it can happen :)

  79. MM*

    Just venting, I suppose, but I’d welcome comments.

    Last Friday at 5:30pm I got an email about a job I’d applied for, asking if I could come in for an in-person first interview on Tuesday. No other dates were offered for an interview.

    Well, as it happens, I couldn’t come in for an interview Tuesday because I’m currently traveling. So I sent back a polite and carefully worded email explaining that I was traveling but that I was still interested and could arrange a phone or Skype interview, or come in when I get back, or even rearrange my travel plans to come back earlier for an interview.

    I got no response to my email. I sent a follow-up email on Wednesday and there has been no response to that either. I can’t believe they’re resorting to ghosting in a hiring process! I can understand if they don’t want to alter their interview methods for me, but at least communicate that to me! Ugh. So rude.

    I’m planning on Monday to call the person who emailed me – at this point, I don’t think persistence is going to hurt my chances any more than they currently are.

    1. Chaordic One*

      It might well be that because of your traveling and their having a tight deadline to get someone hired they won’t be able to accommodate you with your very reasonable alternatives to an in-person interview on Tuesday. (Maybe they’re not very tech savvy.) In your situation I would not have a problem with being told that they could offer an alternative. It doesn’t speak well of them and it is their loss. And, yeah, it is rude for them not to respond in any way.

  80. Matilda Jefferies*

    What do you say when someone is chatting with you in the elevator and says “I think your boss really screwed up that teapot issue?” This was my situation this morning. And the thing is, I happen to agree with them – I actually think my boss *did* handle it badly. I did my best to prevent it, but it was out of my hands, and I think a lot of people were confused and/or embarrassed by my boss’ inaction on this issue.

    So, I 100% agree with the person on the elevator, but I don’t want to publicly disagree with my boss. My default brain setting is full honesty rather than diplomacy – my instinct is always to say “You’re right, she did mess that up, and I tried to stop her but she wouldn’t listen, and I’m so sorry you were inconvenienced by it!” So I would appreciate some scripts to help me navigate the diplomacy part, and (hopefully) validate the other person without throwing my boss under the bus.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      For a short conversation, you can probably get them to fill the time with their own opinion, rather than expressing your own.

      “You think so?”
      “How would you have handled it?”

      Or, if it’s undeniable that the situation is well and truly screwed up, you can discuss the situation but not the blame.

      “Well, luckily, I think we’re going to be able to do x and y and hopefully that will take care of things…”

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        Unfortunately, the situation is completely out of our hands now, and it is well and truly pooched regardless. (These two things are not actually related, so I’m giving thanks to corporate bureaucracy for that at least!) Best we can do is promise not to screw it up in quite the same way next time, and even I don’t believe that will happen. :/

        But I love the idea to keep asking them for their opinion, and just keep nodding and smiling otherwise. I will try that next time for sure!

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      I think I might change the subject.

      “Uh huh. So have you been watching the tennis?”

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        Ha! Fortunately, I work on the 4th floor, so I was able to bail quickly. “Oh, that’s too bad, nice to see you again, have a good weekend, bye!” But I have a feeling it may come up again when I don’t have so obvious an escape route, so I’m planning ahead. :)

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          You know, a *really* obvious subject change, like “Huh. So, how about that local sports team?” can be used to convey that you don’t necessarily disagree, but you can’t discuss it.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      “Yep, I can see what you are saying. It is what it is….[voice trails off and topic switch].”

      “I thought that, too. Knowing my boss she probably was thinking about a, b and c as factors also. This might have swayed her call on this one.”

      “I get what you are saying. Hopefully, it works out somehow. [topic change]”

      Choose carefully. If the boss is off the charts you might be better off with a nod or a head shake with NO words.

  81. Lady Dedlock*

    Looking for some good resources for first-time managers. (I’ve bought Alison’s book already, of course.)

    Backstory: We’re adding a new position to my unit, and my boss is talking about having me be this person’s direct supervisor. My boss is more interested in managing work than managing people, so I’m not sure how much help he’ll be. I asked him if it would be appropriate to set one of my annual goals around receiving management training, and he asked, “Do you think that sort of thing ever helps anyone?” (Uh, yes?) And he went on to say that it’s not a big deal, I can essentially treat this person as a colleague. To an extent, sure, having one direct report may not be a big deal. But I want to make sure I’m prepared, and it seems like a good time to seek out additional resources and start building toward a new phase in my career.

    I work at a university, so there’s probably some formal training I could pursue. But I’m curious what other resources people found most helpful in learning the ropes as a first-time manager. Books? Blogs? Networking events?

    1. Lady Dedlock*

      Also, what kind of raise (if any) might one expect when going from being an individual contributor to having one direct report?

  82. JBean*

    I have a resume question. At my previous employer, I was a research/evaluation consultant that worked on a number of different contracts. I currently include most of those contracts on my resume, organized under the employer, though I’m only including those contracts where I had a significant role. I have the longer, more substantive contracts organized under the funding agency, with another section for projects that I managed (but it wasn’t a substantive role). This organization makes my resume 2+ pages long. With my current role, and the variety of duties/accomplishments, my resume may fill all 3 pages. Since many people don’t understand my field or the complexity of the duties, I feel the need to provide context, particularly since I am straddling fields now.

    My question: could I just get rid each project and only describe the nature of the work and the accomplishments? Or is context necessary?

    1. Undine*

      Rather than list all the contracts by date or details, could you do a quick list without dates & maybe only include the top clients? Like:
      Worked on contracts for public and private agencies including: No Ducks at Work Club, Intrusive Nutritionists Alliance, Employment Duncecaps Administration. X percent of contracts where I took a significant role were renewed, including five renewals with the High and Mighty Order of Teapot Anthropologists.

  83. Alice*

    Someone from IT — please help me understand the IT perspective.

    IT at my organization has licensed a nice enterprise tool and disabled the user group feature. So, whenever a new person joins the team, we have to individually add them to every project that we can remember.

    Any idea why? Or how I could try and communicate with them about the issue? So far, I’ve just been told, “Don’t worry, you can add as many users as you want” (to a zillion different folders, individually). I know that they don’t get up in the morning and plan to make things difficult on purpose but it’s hard to remember that.

    1. Camellia*

      My first thought is ‘security’. Does every user have to go in every group or do you/did you just do that for convenience’ sake? By adding them individually you get to decide if that person really does need access to that group.

      1. Alice*

        We keep a lot of project documentation on this platform that actually does need to be shared with {everyone on team A} or {everyone on teams A and B} or {everyone on teams A and B plus Joaquin, who’s liaising with them on behalf of team C}. So, while this is a good point in general, I don’t think it’s relevant here. But maybe our IT people don’t know that, so thanks for the perspective.

    2. Jennifer Thneed*

      The next time you have to add someone to all the projects, clock how long that takes you. Do some math with that and talk to your boss about how many “person-hours” are spent every month or year on this important but trivial task. Ideally, they’d talk to someone in IT who would look into how many of THEIR person-hours it would take to make this change, and then they get to play rock-paper-scissors to decide who needs to spend their person-hours-budget. The thing is, it’s a one-time expense for IT to make the changes, and it’s an ongoing expense for, well, every department that has to add users to projects.

      You want to be able to answer ““Don’t worry, you can add as many users as you want”” with “adding 1 user to 1 folder takes 3 minutes. I just added a new user to 45 folders. That took me over 2 hours and it’s not the main part of my job”.

      1. Alice*

        I’ll try this. Unfortunately it’s quite diffuse — we are not hierarchical at all, so it’s not like there’s one manager with one admin who knows 45 folders. Instead, there are different people on the team who have stronger feelings of ownership or who think that a particular project or set of documentation is crucial for the new person. It’s also very event-driven — “oh, no one shared X with you? I’ll do that right now.”

        But hey, if we ever do get the ability to have user groups, we’d still need to add the user groups to all __ folders. So, we might as well make a list of them now!

    3. Slippy*

      It could also be the case that IT doesn’t realize this is an issue so they haven’t tried to automate it. Honestly it sounds like someone could write a script to do most of the grunt work but if the IT managers prioritize other things they will never get around to it. A good rule of thumb in IT shops is that their staffing levels are about 50% of what is needed to do everything that people demand of them.

      1. Alice*

        Clearly they don’t realize it’s an issue! ;)
        They shouldn’t need to right a script — it’s an existing feature of the platform that’s described in detail in the vendor’s documentation. The local IT person I talked with says that the user group feature is disabled here.

        TBH that’s part of my frustration — it’s one thing is a snazzy feature doesn’t exist yet, but when it exists and some nameless, faceless committee decided to disable it for reasons which they didn’t explain and which aren’t obvious — aargh!

        The best part is that on at least one other cloud-based tool that we have, the vendor allows for user groups and my org’s IT implemented that, no problem. I mean, I’m glad that we can use user groups sometimes at least, but I don’t get the different approaches….

        Thanks everyone in this thread for engaging. Sorry my replies are so late in the weekend!

  84. Intern*

    What’s the best way to “stay in touch” with a company when they ask you to?
    My husband applied for basically a perfect job for after he graduates. The company had him do an email screening and called him to say that though they were very interested, they were not able to move forward with his application at that time (which we really appreciated). The hiring manager also said that they wanted to stay in touch with him, especially through his last semester. What’s the best way to do so? Do they mean to email when he’s graduated or, for instance, after he’s passes a certification test he’s planning on taking? He wants to make sure they remember him for any possible positions, but doesn’t want to send too many “Hey remember me? Here’s what I’m doing now” emails. Thanks.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I mean they can say “stay in touch,” but ultimately it’s really up to them. If he “stays in touch” but they ignore his emails, then it was probably just an empty well-meaning nicety. But if they actually respond back, then they do want to stay in touch. I’d probably have him just reach out again when he’s close to graduating and reach out only once.

  85. Not Today Satan*

    So, I fired someone for the first time today. It was sad, because the employee in question tried, she just wasn’t good enough to cut it. I’m pretty bummed about it.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Any chance you could provide a good reference for her for another type of position (or same type of position at a less demanding workplace)? That may soften the blow a bit, since you said she tried and you’re bummed about having to fire her.

    2. not so super-visor*

      I’m sorry. It’s never easy to do this part of your job. I’d like to say that it gets easier, but it never really does. I had to do the same thing earlier this week. The look on her face as I walked her out is still in my brain.
      In these cases, I just have to remind myself that it’s part of my job duties to make sure that my team is functioning at their best in their roles. If I’m not making adjustments, then I’m not doing my job.

      1. Not Today Satan*

        Thank you for your response. That’s a good point. One of the most frustrating things for me as an employee is when crappy workers skate by forever and never get fired.

  86. Can't Sit Still*

    My academic adviser for my masters degree has been hinting and now downright asking for a job with my company. To be blunt, she’s not qualified for any of the positions she thinks she is, since this is a highly specialized industry. She literally does not understand the name of my department, much less what we do.

    I just started this program in January, and our relationship was fine up to this point. But her asking for a job makes me very uncomfortable. Is this inappropriate or is it normal? I wouldn’t mind her asking if it was closer to the end of my program, instead of the beginning.

    2. CityMouse*

      I agree that is not okay. I would go to the dean or coordinator for your program asap.

    3. T3k*

      Yeah, that’s not good. If you can, switch advisors (not sure what the process for that is, some you have to go to the head of the dept., some like my university, were less formal and we just picked the advisor/professor we best clicked with).

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      “That’s not really anything I have any control over. You should talk to Human Resources.”

    5. Hellanon*

      Completely inappropriate – the power differential between student & advisor are too great. You’re uncomfortable, and there’s your proof… can you go to the dept chair and request another advisor be assigned?

    6. Anon for this thread*

      Oh, dear me. She is overstepping ethical boundaries. If you had written to Captain Awkward about this situation, I would be saying, “There are bees here! RUN!” You need to talk to whomever is over her about this. She is abusing the power and influence she has over your program and your thesis (if you are writing one) in an attempt to gain something for herself. I don’t have the National Academic Advising Association’s code of ethics in front of me but I can dig it up if you need it. I was an academic advisor for 22 years and this is NOT OK for her to do.

      1. Can't Sit Still*

        As soon as I read this, I realized that if my program were industry-related, it’s likely I would have had to report the conversation to my company’s legal department immediately, or at the very least, our ethics hotline to let them determine whether or not it was a reportable incident. And in that case, I would have known that instantly. Thanks for helping me put it into the right context!

        I will get the ball rolling on getting this taken care of. Fortunately, it’s early in the term, and my program, so changing advisors shouldn’t make too much difference at this point.

  87. IANAL (I Argue Nightly About Llamas)*

    Hey all! I have a question about asking for help at work.

    I’ve been at my job for 6 months and I’m struggling on a few things. My boss asked me to think about what can be done to fix it. I mulled over the details, and I realized that I do much better with written instructions than with verbal ones.* So, I want to ask if she can give me instructions for multi-step or complicated tasks using our task management system or via email whenever possible.

    Is this asking too much or imposing?

    Background: I have some work PTSD from a toxic job where I did something very similar to this. To make a long story even longer, I was an admin and had an ongoing problem where higher-ups would be out of the office and wouldn’t tell me (or anyone), or they would schedule Very Important Meetings and I would be away from the reception desk when the VIPs arrived because I didn’t know. So I asked the higher-ups to input their appointments into a Google Calendar or email me when one was coming up. Then they didn’t do that, so I kind of demanded that they do it. (In my defense, I was 22 and knew nothing of office politics.) It blew up in my face, involving one of the VPs yelling, “who the (expletive) does she think she is.” Not that I’m still upset about that or anything.

    So, basically, I don’t want a repeat of that event. To bring it back to the issue at hand, is the written instruction thing a reasonable request? Is it something that I can ask for in a way that doesn’t make it seem like I’m either imposing or being lazy? Thanks!

    *Not from a learning disability, just a general learning style

    1. Lora*

      Take really good notes while they are talking, and you can tell them, “hang on a minute” or “go slower so I can get all this down”. Then you can write your own SOPs.

      1. IANAL (I Argue Nightly About Llamas)*

        I’ve been doing that the past week and it seems to be helping some. I’m concerned that it might not be enough, though.

        1. tigerStripes*

          If you type up your notes, you can probably ask your boss or other people to review it and let you know if you’re missing something. It’s a lot easier to review instructions than to write instructions.

      2. LQ*

        +all the numbers to this.

        You do NOT want the SOP directions that I will write because I will–without realizing–skip 5 steps because it’s like do you say lift covers, turn in bed, put feet on floor, move arms to sides or do you just say “get out of bed”.

        So talking it through, and generally showing someone or making them do it while I talk them through it (the best) is the only way to get all of the steps of something.

        Hopefully your boss is willing to go slow enough that you can write it down and then have something to refer to, but honestly I wouldn’t trust instructions that anyone (except 1 WAY overly detailed coworker) would write and give me without them missing steps.

        1. Paquita*

          +1000! I can NOT write good instructions. We have a new employee in my group who was doing something while following the instructions. I wrote them assuming a basic knowledge of Excel. (New spreadsheet, copy, paste, delete a column, sort.) Even include screenshots for reference. She was like, this doesn’t work. Well it works fine for me, what are you doing wrong?

      3. Elizabeth West*

        Yeah, I absolutely do this during training–I explain that it might be slower, but I won’t have to ask you again unless I run into a snafu we didn’t discuss. Then I make a procedural document and I update it as needed if the process changes.

        I wish I had all the procedural docs I’ve written over the years. My portfolio would be HUGE.

    2. Kim Possible*

      You mention that it’s specifically multi-step or complicated tasks that you’re wanting written instructions on; are there not already some sort of training documents available to you for these tasks?

      If not, I think it kind of depends on your boss’s personality. How busy is she on a day to day basis? Does she seem invested in your learning of the position? I think it’s a matter of whether your boss thinks it’s worth her time to invest in written instructions for the tasks that you do. It may or may not be “asking too much.” I’m sorry if that’s not extremely helpful – but I do think a lot of it is about feeling out your relationship with her.

      1. IANAL (I Argue Nightly About Llamas)*

        There are some instructions, but a lot of tasks are one-time things that are specific to a particular case or project. For instance, I might need to scan some documents, create a list of all the people listed on the documents, research their fax numbers, and then send a particular form via fax to all of them. That’s a very simple example that I wouldn’t NEED to write down, but a lot of times these are 25+ pages of documents and I’m doing several of these at once so it gets confusing easily. I don’t know that that’s something that can be process-ified.

        Boss is usually open to discussion, but she does get short-tempered when she’s very busy. (Having worked for short-tempered people before and having it turn out poorly, that makes me nervous even though I know, logically, that she’s not mad AT me, just frustrated AROUND me.) I guess I’m kind of anxious because, with the amount of mistakes I’ve made, I’m not sure WHY they’ve kept me around, and I don’t want to accidentally draw attention to the fact that I keep messing up and should have been fired months ago.

        1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

          Are you a list-maker? That might help you keep track of everything. I usually have a to do list from the night before to work on the next day, and I add things to it throughout the day. I write EVERYTHING down, even small stuff like “email so-and-so about project x signature”, because otherwise it will get lost in the shuffle.
          I also have a list of all my long term projects in an excel spreadsheet that I color-coded and listed in order of deadline. I have to do these things in order to keep up with the workload.
          Don’t let your past mistakes trip you up and keep you from improving. Learn from them, but keep it moving. Keep trying different strategies until something works. You can do it! :)

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Dunno if this helps: I deal with stacks and stacks of files. Each file needs a different thing. The top sheet is a routing or processing sheet, it indicates the next steps. I write the steps or sometimes my boss writes the steps.

          The problem I have is that by the time I get to the file it’s three hours later or three days later, the boss is gone and I have no recollection of what special thing she told me was needed.

          We have recently refined our system recently to include mini-binder clips. We were using paper clips to hold the “routing/processing” sheet in place on the inside front of the file. Well, predictably the paper clips fell off with monotonous regularity, so we switched to mini-binder clips.

          If you go with something like this, put a date next to everything you write. It is amazing how handy it is to have that date next to the note.

          I just started doing the sheets one day. I printed out a bunch of pages with a title at the top. Let’s say “Routing for Project #___”. (Just an example. I would fill in the project number each time I start a new sheet.) My boss found she LOVED the sheets. She could easily backtrack and see when X or Y happened or when A or B was completed. Now we have more uses for the sheets other than my own tracking purposes.

          General idea: Take what seems to be a disadvantage and use it to help you find a system that benefits you and the boss.

    3. Simone R*

      I had a boss that didn’t believe in writing things down and when I was new and more afraid of screwing stuff up I would take copious notes during our meeting and then type them up. I’d then email them to him saying here’s what I’m working off of, let me know if it’s all good. After a few months of doing that I got more confident and a better sense of what was important and didn’t need to do it anymore.

    4. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I also do much better with written instructions, but part of it is that I have to be the one to write down the steps of a process in a way that makes sense to me. Maybe you could write out some processes as a guide for yourself and have your boss look it over to make sure you’re doing it correctly? If I was your boss, I would appreciate you taking the time to do that instead of asking me to do it.
      Also, is there any chance someone has already written out these processes (an SOP, notes from your predecessor, old training materials, etc.)? Maybe you don’t have to start from scratch. I took the notes from the girl I replaced and added to them, and it made my job soooo much easier!

    5. Fictional Butt*

      I feel you, because I am also much better with written instructions. Maybe you can create a set of instructions and ask your boss to look them over and see if they’re correct; then use that as a basis to continue making written instructions for yourself. I don’t think it would be appropriate to ask your boss to write out instructions every time she gives you a complicated task.

      If you can’t do your job because you are actually lacking information (as in the example with the VIPs), that may be a separate discussion to have with your boss. But I think you need to be prepared to receive information in whatever form it’s transmitted, and write it down yourself.

    6. JustaTech*

      I’m not sure what industry you’re in, but written instructions seem very reasonable to me! (In my industry they’re required for pretty much everything, so we have them even for the stuff that isn’t required.)

  88. BigSigh*

    I’ve got a co-worker who nods in meetings. Seriously, from half hour meetings to two hour meetings, she nods without stop. It is so distracting! I’ve been trying to ignore it, because she’s clearly just trying to stay engaged, but it annoys the crap out of me.

    A different coworker just mentioned it to me, so it’s not just me who notices! He actually said, “Have you noticed the bottle head routine?” Rude but very on point…

    Clearly there’s nothing I should/could say, but is there anything at your office like this? Annoying but not something ever worth bringing up?

    1. OlympiasEpiriot*

      I’d just try to sit in a way I don’t have to see her in my line of sight. It seems a bit odd, but she probably couldn’t stop it.

    2. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

      My office mate, who I respect immensely, has some words that she doggedly mispronounces, no matter that I *know* she’s heard them pronounced correctly a zillion times.

    3. Another bureaucrat*

      Eh, are you sure it’s just during meetings? Have you seen her outside of meetings and does she do it there? Just saying, I have some tics from a medical condition that can look and sound like mostly normal behaviors, just a lot of them. I have a coworker who I suspect has similar things. Wouldn’t say anything, obviously, but while some people just think it’s weird, there may be medical thing behind it.

      1. BigSigh*

        Naw, it’s not medical. I’ve worked with her for a year and never seen her do it except when she’s in a meeting.

    4. Mimmy*

      If I didn’t know better, I’d think you’re referring to me, LOL. I have a terrible habit of nodding during meetings.

      Sometimes it’s best to ignore these things – perhaps sit where she is not in your line of sight?

  89. Bekx*

    What are some good strategies for someone who is late/loses track of time?

    I am always early, so I have no advice, but my significant other just called me and told me he missed a client meeting. He had it on his calendar, saw the reminder notification, got distracted by another work thing and suddenly it was past the meeting time.

    Any tips?

    1. T3k*

      Can he set his phone to start notifying him 30 mins. before a meeting, then every 5 min. intervals or so after that? (Assuming he’s allowed to have it on him).

      1. Bekx*

        I’ll suggest it! I think that would maybe help him, but I could also see him getting annoyed and turning them off after awhile of not needing them.

      2. Borgette*

        Every 5min seems like a lot, but a two alert “wrap up what you’re doing” notification and a “GTFO” notification might work well!

    2. kb*

      Plan something that he’ll really look forward to, but is flexible and not vital, immediately before important stuff. So if I had a meeting set for 10am, I’d plan to grab coffee or snack from downstairs at 9:45. Maybe your SO is different than me, but my body will never let me be late to food.

      1. Bekx*

        Oh, good idea! He was actually going to go hole up in a coffee shop before the meeting but he had 2 hours to kill and decided to go to his office first instead. Oy.

  90. beanie beans*

    Curious if anyone has an opinion on how to communicate with someone retiring later this year.

    I’m currently an “acting” supervisor for a team with a sub-team of 3 who are experiencing huge workload issues. I’ve been working on some solutions to get them resources and help, and one of my ideas seems solid, but tricky to communicate. One of the three people intends to retire by the end of the year, but hasn’t set a date yet.

    If and when she does, we would be able to advertise and fill that position *before she retires* as long as she has formally set a date with HR. This might be a huge help to the team to have a 4th person for a small window, and an even bigger help to the other 2 who will take on her workload during the transition if we can’t fill her position quickly.

    My issue is there is this negative feeling lately like our company *wants* some people to hurry up and retire so they can replace people. This employee is great, and in no way do I want to rush her to retire or rush her in making a decision this important. I just want to convey that *if* she does set a date with HR, to let me know so we can start the process of getting that 4th person, which would help everyone.

    So the question – broach this subject with the employee or avoid it so as to not sound like I’m rushing her into retirement? And if I do talk to her, is my wording above in general a reasonable thing to talk to her about?

    Thanks! (and sorry so long!)

    1. Teapot Librarian*

      No advice, sorry, just a word of agreement that this is something to be concerned about. One of my employees mentioned that he *might* have surgery, and I wanted to know in advance if he decided to, because the last time he had surgery, he told me on Friday, Monday was a holiday, and the surgery was on Tuesday. (He also had no notice that time–he went to the doctor in the morning on Friday, learned he needed surgery right away, and came to my office as soon as he came in–so this is not a knock on him at all.) With notice, we could get a temp to fill his position, so I wanted as much notice as possible. I guess I asked one too many times if he’d made a decision about the surgery because he said it sounded like I wanted him gone. Oops :-(

      1. beanie beans*

        Thanks for the perspective – even just the “approach with caution” is sort of the confirmation I need that it’s not as easy as just saying, “Tell me when you’re retiring so I can replace I mean help you!”

    2. Almost A Retiree*

      I’m two weeks away from retirement so I can tell you from my side of things. I think the wording you have here both sensitive to her feelings and conveys appreciation for her service while communicating your needs at the same time. A script on the order of this would have helped me pull the cord months ago instead of waffling around and changing my mind a hundred times.

      “Sansa, you’ve been a wonderful employee and I value the excellent work you’ve done for us. I don’t want you to feel rushed or pushed into a decision about your retirement date, but I want to let you know that when you set a retirement date with HR, I’ve gotten approval to begin the hiring process and bring someone on board early enough that you’ll be able to help train them. That will also give us an extra pair of hands to help out with the workload which will be great for all of us. If you’re not sure yet when you’re thinking of retirement that’s fine. Just let me know when you do decide and I’ll start the ball rolling.”

    3. BRR*

      If this person is overworked, they should understand. Maybe say whenever you have a date let hr know and explain the reasoning behind it then just say you’re not rushing her out, this is for workload issues.

  91. EnviroEducator*

    Hi all! I work in informal education, and lately my fiance and I have been thinking about a temporary move to somewhere new and wild and fun, for 1-2 years, maybe sometime in the nearish future. (There are lots of temporary, seasonal jobs in my field, many of which I’m very qualified for and quite a strong candidate.) Lots of these jobs are in remote areas – like a nonprofit outside a state park in Tanzania, or a camp in the mountains, or other places where my potential employer is the only thing happening (except for hiking trails, campgrounds, etc) for miles around, and often these jobs come with included housing on site. My fiance is an architectural designer with a lot of building experience, bike repair skills, and construction project abilities, and ideally, of course, we want to move to said remote place together. We’d want a situation where he could move with me and also live in the provided housing, and ideally pay for his lodging (and potentially beyond) with other work on site. I know this is a thing that happens, pretty frequently (people working in remote areas definitely bring their families) but I’m not sure how to handle it in the application stage. Would you guys mention it in the cover letter, or wait until later? Anyone have experience with this kind of thing? Thanks!!

    2. Reba*

      My sibling worked in the outdoor education field, all over the world, for several years. So this is vague and second-hand information. In most of their situations, their partner was also employed at the camp or whatever in a similar position. Basically every company handles it differently. Getting domestic partner status in country of residence mattered to some companies, others didn’t care. For some operations it was just not possible (i.e. the staff lived in pop up campers divided by gender out behind the building and there was no more space). Ability/willingness to accommodate did not correlate with general level of professionalism of the company. ;)

      Since this seems like it is a key criteria, you wouldn’t be willing to take the job without making arrangements for your partner, I’d ask about it early. Like, maybe submit application materials and ask at the same time if someone could answer some questions for you. It’s likely not going to surprise them.

      It’s difficult to know when to bring up family/partner stuff with work. Good luck!

  92. Anon Accountant*

    I received a job offer but think it’s a poor one. They advertised they have medical insurance and they have a “salary stipend” where you can buy insurance with it if you choose. Their offer is $5,000 less than I’d asked for and “as things are working out” I’ll get my $5,000 salary adjustment in 90 days. That was up from 6 months.

    I like them but after my current boss I have difficulty trusting conditional promises. Right now I’m unhappy with them and think it’s best to reject the offer. What should I say to them?

    1. Alice*

      I think the question is whether you want to negotiate or just say no.
      A “I’m excited about joining your team, but I’m not comfortable with a conditional offer. Can we agree to a salary of $X/year from my start date?”
      B “While I like your organization’s work/direction/culture a lot, I’m not comfortable with a conditional offer. I’m afraid that I have to withdraw my application.”

      If you do decide to go with A, you would want to get really firm details about who will judge things “working out.”

      Good luck!

      1. Lynne879*

        I like Alice’s suggestions.

        Maybe first negotiate with A, and then if they hold firm on a conditional offer, answer with B.

        1. Anon Accountant*

          I had prior promises from my current boss in writing. The jerk smiled smugly at me and told me to try to enforce it. It’s a lot to post here but after him I won’t trust a conditional promise ever.

          1. Camellia*

            Then you should trust your gut and your experience and pass. I like answer B above but wouldn’t use the word ‘afraid’ – I think words like this weaken our approach – and instead would say, “I am withdrawing my offer.”

    2. Slippy*

      Get that salary adjustment in writing and be careful of qualifiers otherwise you are leaving the money to the whims (mercy) of your new boss. If they insist of a review of your work before they adjust your salary get a list of criteria ahead of time and make sure it is realistic.

  93. Purple snowdrop*

    I told my line manager and grand-boss this week that I’m in the process of planning to leave my emotionally abusive spouse and they were extremely supportive.

    So that was more of a relief than I can ever say.

    1. Anne*

      That’s great! Congratulations on going through with something so difficult – you will be so much better off once you are gone, but I know it’s hard to take those steps.

    2. OlympiasEpiriot*

      That is great. When having big life changes, it is so helpful to have some other large thing that is solid.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      I’m really glad your managers are being supportive when you need them to be.

    6. Anon for now*

      Good job. It can be very difficult and feel like you are siting every detail of your life, but it can be worth it. I did something similar with my boss several years ago when a primarily emotionally abusive situation turned into a potential physical safety threat. My boss was great and extremely supportive.

    7. Purple snowdrop*

      Thanks all.
      It’s such an exhausting process. Knowing that work will be behind me makes everything that little bit easier. So hard to say out loud though :-/

      1. Purple snowdrop*

        Oh and I spent the whole of today gibbering to myself that I can’t do this. Then he said another mean thing about me (strike 1) to our child (strike 2). So, yeah.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      It’s amazing how many supportive people there are out there. I am in awe just based on my own life experience.
      I am very glad to hear you have a supportive work situation. One less thing to worry about.

  94. not so super-visor*

    TLDR version looking for thoughts/inputs: listening Housewife-Mother on your resume as your top occupational listing
    Longer version: 2 temp applications came across my desk this morning. Both with similar experience, but the second listing their current occupation as Housewife-Mother with a listing of their duties in this role. I am scratching my head as to why anyone would put that on their resume, especially when they have current work experience (up to the last two months). Is this just a lack of understanding of workplace norms or is this really a thing?

    1. CityMouse*

      Sounds like some bad advice you would get in a mom blog or from a terrible career coach. I know entering the work force after being a stay at home parent is tough, but it just looks so incredibly out of touch and unrealistic, I just can’t fathom. Limited discussion in an interview I could be okay with, but a resume entry? Yikes.

    2. lisalee*

      For some reason, that bit of advice has been drifting around the internet recently as a way to make up for a slim work history. On the one hand, I do think we need to respect mothering as “work” but on the other hand, your resume is not the place to put it.

      1. not so super-visor*

        The weird thing was that she had a decent amount of relevant work experience. It seemed like she was just trying to fill the 2 month gap between her last position and now.

        1. Another bureaucrat*

          2 months? Wow. I definitely wouldn’t feel the need to add anything there. I’ve seen the same advice, but I’ve seen it targeted to parents who have left the workforce for years to raise 1 or more kids. So like, to explain a 3+ year gap.

          1. Liane*

            From what I have read here, it doesn’t even work for people who have been SAH parents for years.

        2. CityMouse*

          That is so weird. I guess if the rest of her resume was good I would just ignore it but watch put if she puts too much mom focus on things in an interview.

  95. Office Mercenary*

    I have an interview this afternoon, but I’m not sure how to prepare. There isn’t really a job description available, just some general guidelines from the friend who referred me, like “tell him about any communications experience or countering violent extremism experience you may have.” Complicating matters, the position is with a government contract that the company doesn’t advertise on their website, so I’m having trouble finding information about the project. It seems like they value discretion above all else, which isn’t terribly unusual for the field, but still complicates things.

    One thing is making me nervous though: I asked my friend via text message if there’s anything I should know before I meet with her boss. She said, “He’s pretty manipulative, haha.” I asked what she meant and she said, “Stand your ground.” ???

    1. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Oh that is not helpful. Ask her for a specific story from her own experience that would illustrate this (now that she’d given you a warning at all.)

    2. NaoNao*

      The way I read that is that the boss is one who likes to get others riled up or off balance, and then retreat with a smirk, or someone who likes high pressure interviews.
      Ugh, I would not want to work for this person, but if you do…
      Work on remaining cool, calm, and collected.
      Be a broken record about your key points or your points if he tries to pull you off topic (so, Divisive Political Candidate, what do you think about them? Answer: I don’t have enough information on them to have a strong opinion.” Him: “Come on, really?” “I really don’t have enough information.” “You don’t read the Internet?!” “I just don’t have enough information.” And so on.)
      If he asks you weird, invasive or inappropriate questions:
      “That’s really too personal for me. Let’s stick to the job duties and position.”

  96. EA*

    Hi all,

    What do other support staff do when someone is very rude and looks down on you?
    I support a C level executive, and most people I feel like treat me well, a few VPs are snobs, but overall it isn’t a problem for me. We hired a new employee at a low level (she’s 27) and she has made several comments thinking I am her assistant (I am her GRAND bosses assistant) and asking me when I am going to “figure out what to do with my life”. I’ve shut down assumptions that I do work for her quickly. She has been here 2 week. What do I do about the rudeness? I was just like excuse me when she said that, and she didn’t apologize.
    I’ve been very polite yet sort of icy with her. I help a lot of people on the best way to approach my boss (he is difficult), and won’t be helping her. I don’t want to be vindictive or anything, but I think what she did was super rude on like what her 6th day at a new job.

    1. Kim Possible*

      Wow! That’s incredibly bold of a low level employee who has worked there TWO WEEKS (!!!)

      Have you spoken to her manager about her comments towards you? That’s extremely disrespectful. I wonder if there are other personality/performance issues already.

    2. Snark*

      I think icy-polite is the way to go moving forward, but I think you have the standing to go to her boss and request a sitdown with them and her. Hell, I think you have standing to challenge her directly: “Your comment to me about figuring out what to do with my life was incredibly rude and demeaning, and I’d like an unqualified apology. Executive Assistant isn’t a fallback position for the incompetent, and I’ll thank you not to suggest it is moving forward.”

      If she says it again, and you don’t feel like you can directly challenge her, I like the following: “What an odd thing to say.” “What makes you think I haven’t figured out what to do with my life?” “What makes you say that?”

      1. OlympiasEpiriot*

        “Icy polite” is really the only mode to use when interacting.

        What a pain in the neck.

      2. Rusty Shackelford*

        “What an odd thing to say” or “What a strange question for you to ask me” are excellent responses to this kind of rude questioning.

    3. fposte*

      I think icy-polite and “Why would you say that?” are perfectly useful approaches. I wouldn’t bother to complain to your or her boss yet, though; give it another month or so and then mention to your boss that you hoped it was just newness awkwardness but it hasn’t stopped.

      Meantime, time for this blast from the past:

      https://www.askamanager.org/2012/09/how-do-i-ask-the-ceo-if-i-can-borrow-his-assistant-for-my-projects.html

      https://www.askamanager.org/2012/12/update-from-the-reader-who-wanted-to-borrow-the-ceos-assistant.html

      2. Camellia*

        I remember these but went back and scanned the comments – all 263 of them! (My, how you have grown!) I miss Jamie. and Kelly O. And it was fun to see all the commenters that are still here!

        1. Artemesia*

          I loved this guy’s update because for once we had a fool who recognized that he was a fool and reoriented himself. We have all done dumbass things in our careers that we look back on now and shake our heads about. Sometimes we learn and he appears to have. This one was a big screwup and he got set down hard over it both by AG, by the commenters and by his boss. And he figured it out and took it to heart. Kudos to him. Contrast that with the guy ‘going to HR’ because he didn’t get hired after behaving rudely to the CEO’s wife (and maybe everyone else in sight).

      3. Foreign Octupus*

        This letter (and its update) remain one of my favourite letters on here. I agree with Artemesia as well that it was nice to see a fool recongise that he was a fool and make steps to improve himself. I imagine he’s doing fairly well for himself now. I’d like to see another update from him to see how he’s progressed over the last five years.

    4. Blue_eyes*

      Oh dear. It sounds like she is both rude an also doesn’t understand her (and your) position in the company.

      I had something sort of similar happen to me today. I’m a chief of staff and also serve as the EA to the CEO essentially. Today there was a new entry-level employee training with another employee who is also entry-level. The new employee asked the trainer for the number to a Chinese restaurant (so she could order lunch) and he texted me to ask me! My jaw dropped. I felt like she was treating me as her assistant (and on her first training day!).

      1. Artemesia*

        ‘Let me google that for you.’ I can imagine if he were in your presence him asking the name of the place you usually use or something, but to email you to look something up for him. WOW!

  97. Tax Anon*

    I want to quit and I don’t want to quit, and I don’t know what to do. I’m in big 4 accounting and work under multiple managers and senior managers. The manager I work with the most is awful and makes me miserable. They also gave me a horrible year-end review full of half truths, unprovable untruths, and legitimate feedback that she had never mentioned before and that I could have corrected if actually given it at any point through the year.

    On the other hand, every other manager/SM I’ve worked with has been great. Clear instructions, timely feedback, positive reviews. I reached my breaking point and was ready to get out….then I got an opportunity to work on a project that I’m really excited about, with people I respect and appreciate. It won’t take me away from the awful manager completely, but it’ll cut back on the amount of time I have to work with them. So now I just don’t know. Ugh. Any advice?

    1. KiteFlier*

      It might make sense to take the opportunity to work on the project, do your best, and set an endpoint for yourself. When the project ends, you leave. It sounds like the people on the project with you would be in a position to provide references!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Start looking now, so you know what is going on out there. You can always decide whether or not to apply as you go along.
      See, indecision can come from not having enough facts or information. Collect up more information and see where that puts you.

  98. Annie*

    What is the protocol for listing your workplace on a resume when you’re currently on leave (I’m in Canada, and am taking the full 12 months of maternity leave)?

    I’m on maternity leave (10 months into a 12 month leave) and am applying for a job closer to home, but I’m not sure how to list my current job (the job I will return to, if I don’t get a new job). Just list it as 2015-Present? Add an asterisk and note at the bottom “currently on leave?”

    Thanks!

    1. Snark*

      I don’t think it really matters, actually. You’re still employed there. If it comes up, you could mention you’re currently on maternity leave, but proactively bringing it up seems unnecessary.

  99. Anne*

    Alison, you beautiful butterfly, I followed all your advice for writing cover letters, interviewing, and negotiating salary, and I just got offered a job that I honestly can’t believe I’m going to get to do, after several years at a place that has been slowly squishing my soul. One interviewer specifically said my cover letter was great! And I NEVER would have had the ladyballs to negotiate the salary the way I did if it hadn’t been for this site. I feel like you just sent me several thousand dollars in the mail.

    5. Fluffer Nutter*

      Hey, great news! I just got an offer too, after searching since Feb. Non-profit, so didn’t ask to negotiate salary. Plus I’ve never done that and it’s just outside my comfort zone. Came here to say thanks AAM for the cover letter advice- I really saw results in my job search and for those still looking, don’t give up!! And be true to your self about what is a good match. Keep reading AAM (it has helped me SO much to not be “too professional” aka stiff in interviews. Also, write down every interview question you can remember as soon as you’re out of their sight and use them to prep.

  100. Woo One*

    I’m looking for advice concerning my partner’s ongoing job search. Partner was unhappy in his current career and went back to college three years ago for computer engineering. He graduated with a degree in computer engineering in May. He’s been searching for jobs since February and has had very little luck. Has only received a couple of phone calls and has had zero interviews.

    While he was in school he struggled and I believe his gpa is somewhere near a C average. He decided against an internship because he had a business degree and a few years experience working in a business environment, so he thought this would help him secure a job this time around. Now he’s finding that decision may have hurt him. All his classmates who took internships found jobs and he is one of the few who is still unemployed. All these entry level jobs require some experience and since he didn’t take an internship he doesn’t have any engineering experience outside of the classroom.

    He is really struggling to figure out how to get a foot in the door. He’s reached out to former classmates who work at companies that are hiring and tried to get connected to hiring managers through them but that hasn’t seemed to help. My partner doesn’t know if he should ever follow up on applications via messaging hiring managers on LinkedIn or making phone calls. I work in an entirely different industry and in my workplace this is a huge no no, but I’m not sure how this is perceived in engineering. Does anyone have any advice for how he can get step up his game?

    2. AndersonDarling*

      Eek, yeah, he is going to need some experience to get a job in a tech field. There are many people who finish school and have no actual practical skills and folks who do some online classes and think they are programmers so employers won’t risk hiring someone without some experience. Connect with a tech contracting company, they are good at getting newbies up and running so they can be placed in a job. He can do a contract gig for a few months and then will have much better luck finding permanent placement. And internships are still an option even though he finished school.

    3. Liz*

      What AndersonDarling said. A family member is in engineering and an internship is the way to go.

    4. Artemesia*

      With a weak academic record the internship is pretty much the only route to a job as a beginner in this field. Even if he had a strong record it would be important, but a C average is going to be a real albatross starting out (once he excels on a job it won’t matter much, but now all people know is he is a beginner with no experience and dubious credentials.)

      If he cannot get a starting job through his connections or a temp contract job, he needs to do an internship and focus during that period on both excelling and networking.

  101. Anonmoose*

    I’ve been making a huge number of fatigue errors at work in my new job, and was hoping you lovely people could help me think it through.

    First some background – I am a high performer with stellar references, but I also have several health related resume gaps that are nicely covered by school. I’ve been healthy by my standards, and able to keep my physical challenges completely hidden in the workplace for several years now. None of my references know that I was partially disabled in the past.

    I have never worked more than a 40 hour workweek with close to zero commute, and 40 hours tends to leave me exhausted even in my healthy state, though my bosses wouldnt know it.

    With that background, I just started a job that requires longer hours (50-60, so far not more than 50, still no commute), and worse, the long hours shift around so that one day I will be starting at 5:30 am, another I will be working until 11 pm..

    So here I am, healthy by my standards, and incredibly, incredibly exhausted. It is likely to possible that the struggle I am having is temporary and either sleep or short term autoimmune flare related. It’s also possible I’ve just passed my personal hours threshold and it won’t get better. I was going to give it several more weeks to try to figure out which it is, but yesterday I lost the phone they gave me the day after they gave it to me.

    I’ve also made time wasting mistakes, lost (and then reclaimed) my wallet, almost run a red light, and made a huge number of small spacey mistakes. They do not know about the wallet or the red light, and I have not yet told them about the phone. I’ve been doing well with the assignments that are within my core abilities, but my short term memory and organization level have been low.

    So, I need to tell them about the phone today. I was not scheduled to work, but my current plan is to call my boss when he gets in and ask if he’s seen it. He won’t have, but this seems like a first step. Then I will ask him and his boss (fairly flat organization) to meet with me this morning about losing the phone and some concerns I have about my performance. I think I tell them that I have been making an excessive number of fatigue mistakes, and that there are several things I am adjusting to try to stop the pattern, but that I suspect they are having some serious concerns about my performance and I wanted to touch bases about what makes sense to do from here. I’ll be traveling for work for the next couple of weeks, and suspect they would not want to let me go until after that, if they are wanting to let me go.

    I have a two month job for a former employer that I was offered, and it is still available, but will not be for much longer. I have savings. I do not want to get fired.

    Alternately, I could say the “accommodations” word. I have documentation, and this is likely a qualified disability, though the only accommodation I need is a 40-45 hour workweek on a regular sleep schedule, and forgiveness for a couple of stupid and untimely mistakes. I’m hesitant to do this though. I suppose I could also ask for a more stable schedule without the ADA stuff, but I suspect the answer to this would be a flat no in this industry with a new employee who is struggling.

    I have about an hour until I need to put this in motion. Thank you for any help you can give!

    1. lisalee*

      I say lay everything on the table and ask for accommodations. It sounds like that is really what you need anyway. The worst thing that can happen is them telling you the really need a variable-shift person with long hours, you part somewhat amicably, and you have the two-month job to fall back on while you search for another position. From the information you’ve provided here, it doesn’t seem like they would outright fire you.

    2. OlympiasEpiriot*

      OH I feel you about the variable shifts. That is so hard on the majority of people, I do not understand why any company does that. It increases injuries!

  102. Anon Anon*

    I’m very excited. This week my organization announced a new work from home policy. All of our competitors have work-from-home policies, and we did until about 10 years ago, when it was eliminated. So I’m thrilled we are moving into the 21st century.

    And I guess the one good thing about fighting to be able to work-from-home for years is that anyone who was part of that fight isn’t going abuse the privilege.

  103. AnonTodayBackTomorrow*

    So it’s been quite the week here.

    I work for a private university, and like many higher ed institutes these days, we’re facing budget issues. In May we had a series of meetings about the issues and the different ways the school was going to address them. There were some small bonuses for early retirement, a partial hiring freeze, and a larger-than-average increase in the amount we are paying for our health insurance. The administration was very open that we had an approximately 5% budget gap but seemed to have a solid plan for addressing it. Followup communications stated that we had successfully closed the budget gap.

    Wednesday morning, out of the blue, we get an email that all salaries above a certain (very low) threshold will be taking a 2.2% pay cut effective July 16th.

    Needless to say, this has been a shock for everyone. We pay on the low end of the salary range for our area anyway. I’ve looked over my budget and I’ll be able to manage by cutting back on some extras, but this is a huge issue for lots of people around me. Everyone is tense and irritable.

    So, anyone have any suggestions for how to keep your calm when everyone around you is losing it?

    1. Artemesia*

      This is the sort of thing that you should be paying serious attention to. Lots of small colleges have closed in the last 30 years and more will be so doing. A place that is already showing these signs — well that is a first shoe dropping. It would be prudent to begin a serious job search. I know people who had similar warning signs and didn’t and were shocked when they all lost their jobs.

  104. Blah*

    I’m starting to think I’ll never find a job and am a total failure as a human being. Sigh. I know my job doesn’t say anything about me as a person, but it’s hard to be positive some days.

    1. beanie beans*

      You’re not alone! I have days where I tell myself to just be patient because I am amazing and just haven’t found the “right fit” yet, and other days where I think I don’t know anything and consider applying at Starbucks because at least I’d get free coffee.

      1. Sandra wishes you a heavenly day*

        Then Starbucks doesn’t even call you back. (been there.)

        You are not a total failure, in the slightest. There are so many random factors in who gets hired, who gets interviewed, it can’t be any kind of test of anything.

    2. ThatGirl*

      I’ve been going through a job search after a layoff and meeting with a group of folks to network every week. Let me tell you, sometimes it’s just luck. There are very qualified and smart people who have been looking for six months or a year. Sometimes it just takes awhile. And it can depend a lot on your industry and location. Don’t be afraid to try new things, but don’t give up.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Tell me about it. Especially when you don’t want any of the jobs you’re applying to because you want to run screaming out of town into the night.

    4. Artemesia*

      I know two people who had a terrible time finding a job and spent over a year before they found something — both have really good jobs now, low 6 figures. You aren’t alone and since you are reading this site and doing what is suggested you are probably going to hit soon — just not soon enough unfortunately. Good luck.

  105. Anon here*

    I’m leaving my toxic job after 4 years. I just can’t take the screaming, swearing, favoritism, cliques, etc. anymore. What should I tell employers is my reason for leaving? I’ve been there for 4 years, so the “it was a bad fit” reason doesn’t seem like it would work.

      1. Sandra wishes you a heavenly day*

        Good luck! I hope you find a great place.

        When interviewing, I think just a simple “looking for new challenges” would work. If you were at a large company and are applying at a small company, you can mention that as something different you wanted and vice versa.

    2. Lynne879*

      Could you make the “There wasn’t a lot of room for advancement” excuse?

      There’s also the “I was there for four years and it was time to move on” reason, which is true, but maybe it’s too vague?

      1. Another person*

        I used the “need a change/ new challenges/ position with opportunities for advancement” reasons successfully to get a new job after 4 years in a dysfunctional environment. It was absolutely true that I had already advanced as far as I was going to get there!

    3. AndersonDarling*

      I heard the most brilliant response to “Why did you decide to leave you company?” It’s a little pretentious, so you need to practice saying it casually:
      “I haven’t decided to leave yet. I’m looking for the best opportunity where I can ____ and ___. I’m hoping this job may be the one I’m looking for, but I would only leave my current employer for something that is the right fit.”

      1. Fluffer Nutter*

        That might work, depending on your industry. I’d target it to the job you’re interviewing for, if feasible. “The teapot painter at my current company isn’t going anywhere and I’m looking to pivot into teapot painting.” Won’t work if there are 20 teapot painter slots at Toxic Job but if it’s smaller or more specialized it works. If it’s true and you can be sincere. Good luck!! Searching can be demoralizing. Be good to yourself!

  106. Cafe au Lait*

    My boss keeps goofing up my schedule, and I’d like to bring it up to her. My reluctance is the last time I tried, she completely switch how to I needed to notify her (email versus the scheduling software) which has made things worse.

    Longer story: For the last two years, my boss (who started out as my coworker, then moved into my supervisor) wanted me to keep my calendar up-to-date with meetings and time off. I did. Then there was a goof, and she started requiring that anytime I wouldn’t have my butt in my seat needed to be blocked off as “unavailable” in our scheduling software. I did. A problem arose when she looked at the scheduling software on Wednesday, but I updated my availability on Thursday. The schedule hadn’t been written when I updated, but she took the “older” schedule and plugged me into the system when I wasn’t available. Compounding that, she forgot to add a regularly occurring event to her calendar (but had told me verbally), and I accepted an out-of-office meeting believing that time was free and covered.

    As a result, she now wants me to email her and the other members of the team when I’m planning to be out. I have been doing so, but BossLady doesn’t refer to older emails when a new conflict comes up. Three days a week she’s been scheduling me for five hours in a row at the public service desk without a break. I asked on days when I’m scheduled from 2-7 on the desk, I get a 4pm lunch break. (The other two days I spend part time at another branch, and have travel and lunch time written into the schedule). She took that mean a 4pm lunch break every day. She rewrote the schedule yesterday to give me a 4pm lunch break (when it wasn’t necessary), and I had to scramble to find coverage for a presentation I was part of giving.

    I’m frustrated. The other branches don’t operate like this. I feel like I need to jump through four hoops off a lumbering elephant to make sure my boss understands what time I need off. It’s further complicated by the fact my boss has straight up said my time is less valuable than hers. I would agree, except my boss joins every new initiative my workplace dreams up. The only way to be promoted in my workplace is to be seen via committees and presentations. I feel like she’s actively blocking my ability to be promoted.

    1. CoffeeLover*

      It sounds like you guys have a really complicated system going on. Having separate scheduling systems is a nightmare. I don’t understand why you can’t schedule everything in the one calendar (outlook/google)? That would make things a lot easier for everyone involved rather than plugging one schedule into another.

      Anyway, I think you need to sit down with her to talk about the challenges you’re facing in a broader sense and come up with a system that works (and discuss what doesn’t work). One thing you can do is set deadlines for when things need to be updated in your schedule. For example, if she needs to set the schedule by Thursday, then you can commit to “finalizing” your schedule by Wednesday at 1pm. If something comes up after that time and she’s already scheduled you in, then you just won’t be able to attend. When there’s a misunderstanding, as there was with the 4pm break, you need to go back to her and clarify. Keep clarifying until you work it out. This is something you can work out with her using friendly communication. For what it’s worth, I really don’t think she’s trying to sabotage you here. It just sounds like a case of disorganization and the general difficulty that comes from trying to schedule people.

  107. OP for the penny pincher*

    I have a co-worker who I allow to make me crazy. This is today’s example:

    Our team of co-workers just placed an order from a company where there was no delivery charge. One co-worker’s total was $12.98 and instead of paying $13.00, she made change to pay exactly $12.98. I’ve had lean periods in my life where I had to live on $20 a week for everything and I know what it is like to live on a very strict budget. I don’t begrudge her the two cents, I just can’t believe that anyone is that obsessive AND has so minimal an understanding (or caring?) of how this affects the perception of her.

    I avoid initiating any contact with her and am polite when we do interact. She is making me crazy.

    1. An Inspector of Gadgets*

      Are you the same person who wrote to AAM stating that cash is an embarrassing form of payment? Why isn’t all valid currency acceptable to cover the relevant expense? In a case where I could get rid of $0.98 worth of change from my wallet (probably around 8 coins) rather than adding 2 pennies, I would do it. And maybe this person wanted to have whole bills for something else. Basically I think you should not die on this hill, or even let it bother you. As far as I see it, “penny pinching” is only a problem if it results in mooching or burdens other people….the perception problem you think this person is creating for herself might just be in your own head.

      1. OP for the penny pincher*

        Actually, no – that was an eye-opening post though; I have no problem with cash at all and typically prefer it!

        I am so surprised that two for two of you don’t find this odd. She had the ten and three ones and took the time to make the change to give the .98 in coins. It’s wasn’t that she had the change already. The other part is who wants to deal with all of the coins (as the money collector)? I think it is really inconsiderate, since coins are such a pain and the person collecting the money is already going to the effort of gathering and placing the orders.

        I’m just really surprised that you guys aren’t seeing it like I am. I don’t get it (but I want to!).

        For me these are the annoyances:
        1) who wants to deal with a bunch of coins?
        2) would would take the time to make change to save TWO CENTS
        3) when the person placing the order is already dealing with the money and placing the order
        4) it feels like there would never be a give and take with this kind of person – all take on her end (she’s paying her share, but if she always pays the exact amount and never does any of the taking care of the orders for the group, isn’t that taking advantage? that everyone else puts in the effort to take care of things like this for the whole group). It is a choice, but it affects my perception of her, because it feels like it shows that she is all about her and not the team.

        1. OlympiasEpiriot*

          Why is making exact change against the team? I mean, I see what you wrote, but I still am confused. How is this not supporting the team?

          And, by the way, I assume this was for lunch or similar? (I initially just read “placed an order” as possibly being for anything a bunch of people wanted to go in on together, like a quantity discount.)

        2. Liz2*

          I think it’s a weird example you chose, but I believe you have a frustration with her.

          For me, I don’t do cash, so if I realized “Hey I’ve got too much change rolling around, here’s a great chance to dump it!” I would take it.

        4. Observer*

          It’s clear that you are frustrated with her, but your example really makes no sense to me. If she is paying her share, that’s not taking advantage. And, if the person collecting the money really had a problem with all the change, she could have just asked for the dollar and given her the two cents.

          What it really sounds like is that you can’t stand this woman and are looking for excuses to criticize. The thing is that it doesn’t affect her, it affects YOU.

    2. fposte*

      Yeah, I’m with Inspector of Gadgets–it wouldn’t affect my perception of her in the slightest, and I really don’t see it as obsessive. She’s careful with money. In general, I think your options are to ignore it or to cover her tab.

      1. Electric Hedgehog*

        Or trying to get rid of her change… which is the only time I do exact change.

    3. SophieChotek*

      Was this like a food delivery order? Are you saying she did not tip?
      (Otherwise, how do you know she only paid the exact change, or asked for the two cents back? Seems like most online orders would be paid via credit card/debit. I am a trifle confused.)

    4. Cruciatus*

      If someone told me my total was $12.98 that’s what I would give you. Not even because I’m necessarily trying to save pennies, but because that is the cost. Where would those 2 pennies go anyway? At the store, I pay what is asked and expect correct change in return. I guess I don’t find this too strange at all.

    5. Bella*

      She pays exactly what her bill is and that makes you avoid interacting with her as much as possible? Hmm.

    6. OP for the penny pincher*

      I really appreciate any and all replies. I am completely flabbergasted that no one sees it the way I do and your replies might help me to figure out what my blind-spot is on this.

      A while ago there was a study (who knows how legit) that most Americans no longer stop and pick up a penny on the ground, but still will for other coins. Does that fit with what you think (esp. those of you who have said you’d pay the exact 12.98 too)?

      1. OP for the penny pincher*

        Part of what I’m really stuck on is the the irrelevance of two cents and that she put that much effort to make change to save that two cents. I would never give those two cents a second thought. It would never even occur to me to not give $13 when the total is 12.98. It’s a feeling of “WHO DOES THAT?!” (which I admit is harsh and judgmental), out of the sheer disbelief that any regular person would have the thought to make change, let alone bug a co-worker to make change out of petty cash, and then expect the order taker to deal with all of those coins (the order taker takes the cash and generally puts the expense on a card, so if everyone gave exact change the order taker would have a lot of coins to deal with!).

        1. fposte*

          Seriously, then just pay for her, or at least round her change *up*, not down, if you’re the one who wants to avoid exact change. Otherwise it’s her money and she’s entitled to all of it. It’s fine if somebody doesn’t want their exact change, but, absent an order-taker policy to the contrary, it’s fine if they do.

          Getting stuff out of petty cash is mildly annoying, but none of this justifies sheer disbelief and all-caps. She didn’t want to be short money for buying something. That’s not unreasonable.

        2. Princess Carolyn*

          I share your same “Who does that?” feeling, but I think you should be careful not to let that affect your perception of this colleague, especially as far as her competence and professionalism go. Being stingy — or perhaps just precise — isn’t inherently unprofessional or rude. Just remind yourself that people are different and that’s ok.

        3. Another bureaucrat*

          Sure, if I was collecting money, and had to stand there holding out my hand and waiting while someone counted out 5 coins, I would be internally kind of rolling my eyes a bit and chuckling. But my annoyance would stem from being made to wait an extra 10 seconds for what I considered to be something unnecessary– not really because what the person was doing was so terrible in and of itself.

          Now I gotta ask – have you heard of the phrase “BEC”? I think your history with that coworker has strayed fulling into BEC territory. Trust me – we all have them. But you just gotta know and recognize that for yourself – this is my BEC. I will get annoyed at every last thing she does, even standing over in the corner, eating crackers. It’s just how it is. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bec

        4. self published*

          I think it’s a detail- oriented or big-picture person thing. Some people are really literal and to the penny; some people don’t care. It’s a personality thing and you two are opposites. :)

        5. NaoNao*

          Maybe she read a penny pinching blog and it said something like “save all your change! Yes, even pennies!”
          I read a very entertaining blog called Non-Consumer Advocate and among her other tips, she sweeps her hand under the coin counting machine at her bank and picks up any lost change there. She picks up every single coin she sees and keeps a tally for her “found money” total and shares that total periodically on her blog. She picks up rain drenched garments, washes them, and sells them online if they have value and come out clean. She makes her own tea or uses work coffee every. day. She cruises the thrift stores for items and the curb and resells them or sells them at consignment stores.
          And so on. So…she could be a super saver.
          There’s a slim chance that, for example, an everyday expense is $X.02. My daily meal for breakfast is 6.55. If I put in a lunch order for 7.45 and I had 8.00 I might ask for that .55, because I know I’m going to turn around and spend that .55 right away or very soon.
          Or she could be my mother, Queen of Annoying Penny Pinching for No God-d*mn Reason. I love her, but going around turning off lights behind me to save 33c a month, not putting on the heat (“wear a sweater!”) or stocking any ready-made food for snacks, once caused a huge blowout in which I yelled “I hate visiting you because I’m starving, freezing and sitting in the dark!”

          1. Artemesia*

            My mother threw small change into a giant tin and then two and then three in her closet. It came to nearly $1000 and we paid for the refreshments for her wake with it.

        6. Foreign Octupus*

          It honestly sounds like this is the tip of the iceberg and there’s a bigger issue here that’s affecting your perception of her. Is her work consistent and generally good? Is she doing what needs to be done so that you can do your job without unnecessary hardship? If the answers are no then you’ve got somewhere to focus your attention on.

      2. OlympiasEpiriot*

        Actually, I know there’s lots of people who refuse to pick up a coin of any denomination. However, many years ago during the NY Time Neediest Cases Giving weeks where they print little stories from a variety of donors (it’s a fund the NYT created that collects money and then passes it on to various orgs.), there was a lovely story from a man who always gave, but he lived on a very limited income himself. So, he picked up every bit of fallen money he saw. He described where he found to be the best places to look — like at phone booths, I did say this was along time ago — and then at the end of the year, he counted up the found money in his saving jar and matched it and then sent that in to the Fund. That particular year, he had also found a couple of $20 bills during the year and the total was over $100 and he couldn’t afford to match. But, they printed the story.

        It really struck me and stuck with me how the slowly built collection of coins added up over time to something that would be contributed to make a difference.

        Also, it actually costs something like 1.4¢ to make a penny. So, if you leave it on the ground, you are costing taxpayers money.

      3. EnviroEducator*

        I think the person who said something about getting rid of extra change is right on – normally I’d just hand over $13 in a case like this, but if my wallet was full of spare change that was getting heavy, I might grab 98 cents to get rid of the coins (and feel like I’m saving myself an entire dollar! I realize that doesn’t actually make sense.) This is an a situation where I’m standing at a register paying and there’s a cash drawer right there.

        What I think I’m getting from you, though, is that everyone ordered some food or whatever together, and one coworker came around to collect everyone’s money and then go pick up the food and pay. It was nice of that coworker to do so, and it was then annoying for them to have to carry a bunch of loose coins, rather than a slim stack of bills. This, I get – yes, not a huge big deal, but sure, it IS more inconvenient for the nice coworker who is going to pick up everyone’s lunch. And if counting out the exact change meant not paying any tip or tax (and leaving the rest of the coworkers to cover those), then yeah – totally annoying. I’m not a fan of bad tippers.

        1. EnviroEducator*

          Oh – and if the person gave $13 to their nice coworker and then said, “And I’ll need two cents back, please,” requiring the nice coworker to go find two pennies somewhere, while the 12.98-er just sits there – yep, that seems totally annoying and unnecessary.

        2. fposte*

          And I think it’s totally fine for the lunch schlepper to say “I don’t do change, so if you want it, go yourself.”

            1. fposte*

              I read it as an officemate doing a lunch run at a counter service plate, which wouldn’t be a tipping thing at our office. However, if it is a tipping thing, then a co-worker/lunch schlepper can easily say “Plus your part of the tip, Penny, so it needs to be $15.40.”

    7. kb*

      Unless she paid in all pennies or made you wait a really long time while you gathered the change, the level of annoyance leveled against her seems unreasonable. I def think you’re in BEC territory. I don’t think paying exact change flys on the radar of enough people to change their perception of s person unless it was reallllly noticeable/time-consuming.

    8. Panda Bandit*

      I’m not seeing a problem. Unless she paid the entire bill in pennies, let it go. It sounds like you don’t like her and are looking for any reason to nitpick.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Uh, if she was told she owed 12.98 then shouldn’t she pay $12.98?
      I don’t get this.

      I do know that there are a lot of people out there who just round to the next dollar. So $2.10 becomes $3.

      I went to a well known donut/coffee shop and got a coffee. I was owed two cents. They did not give me my change. This happened three times. I emailed the company. I am not in the habit of donating to for-profit businesses. Yes, it changed my perception of this company.

      I worked retail for a lot of years. That drawer had to be exact. Being off by three cents is not exact. It gets to be a habit to keep track of your own cash in your personal life. I currently have a job where if cash is over by any amount I have to write up volumes of paperwork. Don’t give me extra cash. I won’t even say please on that one, because that is how much hassle it is for us.

      She probably thinks that she is making it convenient for you by giving you exact change. If we could buy a better perception of ourselves for two cents per person, I think most of us would be willing to pay that. But honestly, giving someone two cents is not going to be enough money to “make” the recipient change their perception of the payee.

  108. Lynne879*

    So I never got a call back for a second interview at the wedding venue I applied to :/

    On one hand, I’m super bummed. But on the other hand, I think this job would have stressed me out even more than the jobs I’m working at now, so it was probably meant to be.

    I think one of the reasons why I didn’t get a second interview (aside from lack of experience) is my reaction to an answer my interviewers gave me; I asked them if I could always have a specific weekday off (It was a 40 hour job where I would have to always work weekends, so there would be a few days during the week I would have off) because I volunteered all day on that specific day. My interviewers response was no, I couldn’t always have that day off because I would have to work whenever I was needed. I was visibly disappointed by this, and I didn’t say that I could switch to volunteering at night instead of during the day. I think my automatic, disappointed response made them think that I wasn’t flexible.

    Other than that negative response, I think I did fairly well in my interview and it gave me confidence for future interviews. I just need to figure out how to polish my responses to questions and answers I’m not prepared for.

    1. Fluffer Nutter*

      Practice makes perfect. I’ve been interviewing a TON since Feb (posted above that I just accepted an offer- yay) and would sometimes get thrown if they asked the question I practiced “What would a past manager say is one of your weaknesses” in even a slightly different way. “What has a past manager told you would be an area for improvement?” Whaa….? Vapor lock. Take AAM’s good advice about relaxing and thinking of it as a conversation. And if you do screw up a little, handle it gracefully and move on. That’s as important as being perfect.
      PS- I think that job maybe wasn’t right for you….in the future, I’m not above using the “thank you” to clarify or add things that I forgot. It’s a stressful situation, you will always walk away and think of the 1 more thing you forgot to say. Onward!

  110. JobHuntingNewbie*

    I just realized that I forgot to send a thank-you note for a logistics job in a non profit that I interviewed for two weeks ago! Is it too late to send a follow-up. I am so embarrassed, because I was highlighting my organizational skills (which are usually really high level). I don’t know that I have ever forgotten to send *any* email before, so I can’t believe I forgot to send such an important one. I’m assuming it is too late for me to send a thank you email now? I did thank everyone for their time at the end of the interview, so maybe that eases the pain a little? What would you all do?

    2. CoffeeLover*

      Thank you notes aren’t required, they’re just good ideas. They *can* give you a leg-up if they’re written well and in a timely manner. If you’re a strong candidate, lack of a thank you note wouldn’t hurt your candidacy. Plenty of people never send thank you notes. I do think it’s too late to send one now, but I don’t think it’s a crushing mistake either. I say just let it go this time. By now, they’ve probably already decided whether to proceed with you to the next step.

      1. CoffeeLover*

        You know what you could do though – if they gave you a timeframe for when to hear back and they’re well past that (ie, they said by the end of the week and it’s been two weeks), you could send a thank you note disguised as a follow-up note.

  111. CoffeeLover*

    I’m having a really tough time with motivation in my job hunt. I moved to a new country where I don’t speak the language (yet) to be with my husband. I’ve been here for two months and have been filling my time pursuing some hobbies, hashing out some business ideas, and applying for jobs. While I definitely have some extra hurdles in this job hunt (lack of language, experience in different countries, etc.), the biggest problem is lack of enthusiasm. Most of the job descriptions I read fill me with dread more than anything else. I just can’t bring myself to apply. I have a business degree and a few years of experience, so I’m looking at typical analyst or admin type roles in an office setting. My last job was in management consulting, and I’m really struggling going back to that office environment. There’s something about that corporate life that’s just so very unappealing right now, but I also can’t bring myself to apply to “random” jobs like retail either.

    Since coming here, I’ve applied to 4 positions where I could muster up some excitement. That works out to one position every two weeks (this could somewhat reflect the season since much fewer jobs are posted in the summer and also reflects the “english only” requirement). I have an interview for one of them next week, got rejected from one (I think it was the language), and haven’t heard back about the other two. I’ve always been a high performer, so I’m kind of struggling with this lack of… effort (?). I feel like a mooch I suppose. Another part of me though thinks this might be the better way to go. That I should only apply to positions that really appeal to me and that I’m really qualified for and just keep at it until one sticks. But I don’t know… does that really work out for people? Everyone else talks about applying to at least one position a day. How does this sound to you? Do you think I need to give myself a kick in the butt and/or suck it up and apply to more jobs?

    Finance-wise, it’s just me and my husband and we can live off my husband’s salary if we budget well (which we haven’t these first two months, but we’re planing to turn that around). It would really help to have the second income, but it’s not absolutely necessary.

    Bit of a side question: There are a few well known companies that work in English. How frequently do you think I can apply to jobs at these places? A lot of their positions are similar “analyst” type roles. Do you think their system shares applications from one position to the other if it’s similar? I don’t really want to apply to a second job after still waiting to hear back from the first, but I think they also must realize they’re one of the few truly English companies and must get a few expats applying more than once.

    1. Kowalski! Options!*

      Y’know, expat networks (and expats having mostly expat friends) kind of gets a bad name at times, but this kind of situation is a good example of why it’s useful to have expat friends – some knows something about something, or knows someone whose brother knows a guy who…(fill in the blank with unlikely but useful connection). Are there English-speaking networking groups or business associations that you might be able to join, for networking, or even locating someone who can help you navigate the local employment landscape?

    2. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Well, I’ve been job searching for about six years now so I can’t speak for successfully *getting* a job, but I will say that I have definitely noticed patterns in which jobs I get interviews for, and those are almost always the one where I look at the job posting and go “I’d be perfect for this!” That’s not to say that you shouldn’t branch out – I certainly have tried to, although with little success so far – but I’m also fairly confident that you won’t do anything but burn yourself out if you try and stick to something arbitrary like one a day. I can’t imagine finding that many jobs even if I was going for the “I will starve tomorrow and get kicked out of my house if I don’t get something, anything, with a paycheck” jobs.

  112. Snark*

    Pretty simple, but I’d like to negotiate a bump in PTO. Generally we do raises at the end of the calendar year or thereabouts, so should I wait till then to ask for more PTO, or can I ask any old time?

    2. long time lurker*

      I’d like an answer to this too. I can totally see myself preferring increased PTO over more money.

    3. KarenT*

      Personally I’d mention it now so it’s on your bosses mind in advance of raises being set.

  113. Goldfish - reg commenter going anon*

    I work in the UK, higher Ed admin assistant.

    I requested a change of hours so I leave at 4.45pm so I can take an earlier train home. Unfortunately so did the other person in my small specialised office.

    So now we have to come up with a creative solution or take it in turns or train someone up from our main office for specialised questions from main office for 15 mins worth of time.

    Does anyone have an idea of how we can both leave early and still meet the needs to the business? Has anyone done 1 week early, 1 week normal time so the other one goes home early that week ensuring cover? Or something else creative?

    1. Squeeble*

      Can you adjust your overall office hours so that you also start the day 15 minutes early?

      1. Goldfish - reg commenter going anon*

        45 min lunch break means I can get away from office earlier. Neither of us want to start earlier and since we rely on public transport it’s not really an option because the issue is us both leaving early.

    2. Teapot Librarian*

      How much later and/or worse is the commute when you leave at 5? And is it the same for the other person in the office? I think my problem solving here would depend on factors like this. For example, if you leave at 4:45, you can get the 4:53 train, but if you leave at 5, the next train isn’t until 5:53, that’s different than if you leave at 5, you can get the 5:15 train. Or if the other person is going a different direction and there’s an express train if she leaves at 4:45 but her commute is 3 times longer if she has to take the local train if she leaves at 5, but your commute is just more crowded if you take the later train. If there was something obvious like this, I’d probably say that the person for whom it makes a more significant difference should get to leave at 4:45. Then again, I have an over developed sense of “fairness” and will let people walk all over me by thinking their issues are more significant than mine, so you might not want to listen to me in this case :-)

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Is this just about answering the phones or must someone BE present?
      If it’s a phone thing, can you forward the phone to mobile phones?

  114. Anon1*

    We are a team of 4 (including our manager) on a flexible working arrangement. My manager has told me in the past that I can manage my own time providing there is cover (someone else to answer the phones between 9am and 5pm).

    When I want to leave early (which isn’t often), I ask my coworkers what time they are leaving and if there is cover, I leave early. I am very fair and I often stay until 5 for the others when they want to leave early. My manager, however, doesn’t ask us if we can cover her and often leaves work early, around the 3pm mark. This is agreed with her manager but I can’t help feel like she’s not being a team player by constantly expecting one of us to stay until 5 to cover her without asking.

    I know she probably has different rules as the senior in the team, but it’s getting annoying that she seems to be abusing the system. I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable and whether I should speak to her about it. I would welcome any advice or input. Thanks!

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Can you frame it as wanting to know she’s going to be out so you can plan your work around it?

      1. Anon1*

        Unfortunately not as I tend to manage my own workload. Sometimes we get ad hoc requests but they’re never very urgent and can always wait until the next day generally.

  115. Eve*

    I have a coworker who has taken to blaming me for everything. She’s polite but I’ve had to explain several times this week that no ABC are not my initials AXX are mine. And she has me to include more information when I pass paperwork to her and when I said “Sorry, I thought I included that” she came back with “oh yes I found it on my desk”.

    I’d like her to stop assuming I’m the one making all the mistakes. I make some obviously but not all of the in the office.

    1. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Just keep pushing back politely. Nothing else you can do. She’ll either get over it or she won’t.

    2. Teapot Librarian*

      I have an employee who does this. Blaming me, that is. “Oh you never sent me…” this email that is right here in my sent mail. Or “I gave you XX document to sign” that I’ve never seen. Or “I didn’t get Y done because you gave me another assignment.”

  116. LDP*

    Okay, I need some help navigating a slightly tricky work situation.
    I’ve been interning at my company for about 8 months now. (I’m a college grad and only took this job because I wasn’t having much luck finding something full-time). Just for some background, an entry level position opened up about 2 months into my internship, and the manager for that position and my own manager encouraged me to apply for it. I had 5 interviews for it over 2 days and then…radio silence. To be fair, our department had 4 manager level people resign within a 2 month period and there was a lot of shuffling of duties going on. One of the people who left was the manager for the position that I had interviewed for. Anyway, I haven’t gotten any feedback on why I wasn’t selected, and at this point, I don’t even know who I would ask for that feedback. Being young, I would really appreciate hearing why I wasn’t the right fit, so I can do my best to fix it while I look for a “real” job. But, I’ve tried to put it out of my mind and have continued on my job search while still working here.

    So, I had my big performance review with the VP of the department last week and it was 8 minutes long. She basically told me to keep up the good work and that potentially there could another full time position opening up on my team in the next fiscal year. This department is pretty toxic, so I’m not really interested in staying on here, but I’m not in a position to leave without having something else lined up, so I’m just keeping my head down and doing the best job I can for the time being.

    Now, good news: I have a job interview on Tuesday (yay!). But, over the past two days, my new manager has been asking me how he should handle the other person on our team (who is having a lot of performance issues) and I feel a bit uncomfortable answering. I’m not sure if it’s a test? I could be reading too much into that. He also keeps asking me about my plans for the next year or so, and I feel like I’m being forced to admit I’m job hunting before I’m ready.

    So, any tips for how to handle toxic work places and being the perma-intern would be greatly appreciated!

    1. Reba*

      I think it’s much more likely that your manager is inexperienced or just kind of careless, rather than they have a secret system of tests they will use to ‘catch’ you with something. Probably best to continue whatever polite deflections you can on that line of questioning, if you are uncomfortable. Is the other employee a peer? Maybe the boss is trying to get your perspective as a younger/new to the workforce person…?

      Also, you are an intern! Internships are supposed to end. Even if your internship has an agreed term you’re committed to, everyone should understand that job hunting is your default state, not something you would be “forced to admit.”

      Good luck with your interview!

      1. Small but Fierce*

        You’d actually be surprised about people treating internships as what they’re intended to be. Much like OP, I took an internship right out of college since it was full-time and with a highly coveted employer. They treated their interns like contracted full-time employees. I was definitely in a “needed” position. My boss treated me like a daughter (which in hindsight wasn’t very healthy), but when I confided to her that I was interviewing, she completely flipped the switch and freaked out over the possibility that I’d have to leave earlier than anticipated. Of course, the company I was interviewing with didn’t work out, but it was still awkward for the remainder of my time there.

        OP – I recommend that you keep your cards close to your chest. You don’t owe them anything. In my experience, it’s difficult for companies to justify hiring you in a salaried role when they already had the same work at a less costly rate, but I’m sure that can vary based on the company. As a fellow toxic environment sufferer, all I can say is be diplomatic, work hard, and keep your head down. I hope your interview goes well!

        1. LDP*

          Thanks to both of you for the advice!

          I’m definitely being treated more like an actual contracted employee, until it comes down to any “perks” of being an employee there. So, I have all the same responsibilities and amount of work as a full-time employee, but I’m getting paid a fraction of the rest of the team. Which is all the more frustrating since all anyone can talk about around here is how the company keeps making more and more money month after month, but that’s besides the point.

          I’m also not worried about any immediate backlash over job hunting, but if it came out it would be something that my coworkers would hold against me, and would probably hurt my chances of moving up around here if I did stick around. Everyone is VERY cliquey here, and I’m already on the outside of things, so this would only make it worse.

          Hopefully my interview tomorrow goes well and I can put all of this behind me!

    2. Liz*

      Wow, that is a lot, especially for your first job that is not even a full job.

      As far as your plans for the next year, I just read a post here about that, the answer was you don’t have to say this dept is toxic, I am definitely searching for a job any where else! You can just say you are focused on doing well in the internship for now.

      I don’t think the questions about the coworker are a test. But that is really awkward. You could say you are probably not the best person to ask? Do you have a good idea to suggest?

      I wish you luck navigating all this!

  117. Squeeble*

    I’ve realized something about myself that I’m curious whether I could turn into a career. Both in my current and previous jobs, I’ve mastered certain difficult tasks and slowly become a go-to person when other people need to perform those tasks. It is super satisfying to me when someone asks for guidance, and then I can send them a detailed email with instructions and tips on how to get the thing done with as little headache as possible. I like the process of explaining a thing and being able to help someone (it’s not so much about the task itself as it is about showing someone else how to do it).

    I’m also a writer and editor, so: maybe technical writing would be good for me? Or being some sort of trainer or subject matter expert?

    1. Product person*

      I have a friend who works at IBM and his job is to learn new technologies and train people around the world how to use it. He loves the job, even though it comes with the inconvenience of sometimes having to start training at 5am local time when the trainees are on the other side of the world.

      In a big organization, you could definitely find a job as a trainer in which you’re the person to learn new tools, processes, technologies, and then prepare and deliver training for people who need it.

      Definitely another role to consider in additional to technical writing.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I was going to say the same thing!

        I thought about doing that when I was in teacher school for a while, but I’m better at writing the documentation than the training part. But Squeeble, people who can clearly explain and show people things is invaluable, documentation or no.

    4. Undine*

      I believe subject matter expert is only a career if in fact you have a subject that you are expert on & that someone is willing to pay for. So, i knew someone who used to go to court cases on telecomm and testify.

      Technical writer is definitely a possibility, and you should look further into it but here are some downsides (I am a tech writer and I like it, but just saying):
      1. You are at the end of the product pipeline, so when things slip, your time gets crunched. The window between working software and release can be quite short.
      2. The stuff you are documenting is frequently buggy. By the time it’s fixed, you need to have the document done.
      3. You aren’t really a subject matter expert in the same way. You may never use the software the same way a customer uses it.
      4. You may never meet a user. If you do get feedback, it will mostly be complaints.

      I have never been a trainer but here’s my impression of some of the differences:
      1. Trainers often give training that has been developed by someone else. (Although I think many trainers move up to develop training eventually.) Writers work directly with developers to figure out how things work.
      2. Trainers give the same training many times (although it’s different each time, because each group is different). Writers either write something new or do a lot of revisions as things change.
      3. Training is often a day-long or even several-day affair. You have to be on for all that time, and troubleshoot all the people in the class who get lost. I would find that grueling, tbh. Writers are judged more by result than presence.

  118. Sibyl de Neufmarché*

    I am starting a Slow Food Cafe in a small rural welsh town. Am I risking missing on great staff by still expecting a professional level of CV from people applying for Front of House and Kitchen staff?

    I’ve requested people to email me a CV, and so far I’ve had a CV listing ‘excessive Microsoft Word’* as a skill and someone who obviously cut and pasted her query to a Coffee Shop that’s also just opened in the town. I’ve also had quite a few people email me to say they want to apply but haven’t sent me a CV, or asked me a question seeking further information on the jobs. (Am I meant to take that as their application? Are they expecting me to send them a form? Psychically know whether I want to interview them?) including one lady who sent me the line “Hi where the job at as I don’t have a cv thank you” which just bleh!

    Am I expecting too much for a part time job? When I was a barista myself, my CV was just as professional as when I was a manager, (It wasn’t the same as I would tailor the CV for what ever job I was applying for) and I hoped it would reflect my level of professionalism even when I was a part time barista.

    *I admit I giggled for about five minutes on reading that

    1. Nathaniel*

      I have found that here in the U.S. a lot of service-level professionals have trouble making a strong resume. A CV would not be used here except in academia.

      So, I know there are workers that will excel but might need a hand presenting themselves on paper professionally.

      It comes down to whether you value writing and formatting or whether you value core job functions relating to front house and kitchen duties.

      I would say pick the best ones and provide the mentorship needed to move them forward.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      Instead of a CV, I’d ask people to respond with some background information about themselves and list their previous employers. I’ve known many stellar chefs and servers and they wouldn’t know how to use Word and the thought of quantifying their experience into a resume would be overwhelming.
      I’d just ask for a blurb…”Why would you like to work here?” kind of thing. Then you can see who is passionate about the position and can compose a sentence, and then you can separate them from the queries that just want any ol’ job.

    3. Squeeble*

      I don’t think you’re asking too much to require a CV, although it’s probably worth being more forgiving if the CV isn’t quite up to perfect professional standards. I mean, good food service staff will be able to follow directions–if your application requests are clear and some people aren’t following them, it’s fine to pass those people by.

    4. Temperance*

      I mean I wouldn’t hire a person who couldn’t write a coherent sentence, but I also wonder what the reasoning is to expect a professional quality CV for a low-level customer service job.

    5. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I’m not sure how similar rural Wales is to rural American Midwest, but there are (shockingly!) 2 restaurants out in my neck of the woods which are of the farm-to-table variety, and they have SO MUCH trouble finding the level of staff you’d expect to have in that type of restaurant – staff you’d have little trouble finding in the city. I’d say in the interest of getting your restaurant staffed and open, you might forgo the focus on the CV and interview folks who have the type of experience that you’re looking for.

      1. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

        And your situation reminds me of a show on PBS here in the states called A Chef’s Life. It’s about a chef who opens a farm-to-table restaurant in her hometown in rural North Carolina. Not sure how easy it would be to track it down where you are, but it might be interesting to you.

    6. Not Karen*

      If you’re clear in your instructions that applying = send a CV and they don’t, then they can’t follow directions and I don’t fault you for being frustrated. Also “I don’t have a CV” is not an excuse – it’s easy enough to make one.

      That said, all service jobs I’ve seen use an application, not CVs (in the US).

    7. FDCA In Canada*

      It’s a possibility. Depending on the size of your area, there’s every possibility that people who have been working in that sector for a long time with lots of skills have just never had to make a CV, let alone a professional-level one. I work in a rural area employment centre and I’ve definitely encountered people who were skilled servers or cooks and couldn’t string a resume together to save their lives.

      There isn’t anything wrong with saying “We’d be happy to take your application. Do you have a CV?” but I wouldn’t be throwing away potential experienced employees because their CV doesn’t look as sharp as a business professional with 15 years of experience in an urban centre.

    8. kb*

      It depends on the size of the town and the type of the employees you can reasonably expect. In my small Midwestern hometown I know most service job apps were résumé-optional. They had all applicants fill out an application and questionnaire (that basically covered all the content that would be in a cover letter and résumé). I think they realized the bulk of their hires wouldn’t be experienced servers and that they would gain the most insight from an interview/personal references.

    9. N.J.*

      Do you mean just a basic resume? If they can’t have a basic resume prepared with position, dates, employer and a few billet point under each for job duties, then, yeah maybe it’s a function of the location?? If you are actually expecting a Curriculum Vitae, CV, that doesn’t seem typical. What would restaurant employee even put on a CV? Their cooking philosophy? Their areas of cooking expertise or signature dishes they can prep??? Maybe see if there is a cooking school you can pipeline applicants from, specialized job boards, networking groups related to culinary arts? Or draft up an application they are required to fill out that you send to all those who contact you and require the information you want?

      1. N.J.*

        Or any farmer’s markets? Trade publications like regional food/culture magazines that you could post in?

      2. only acting normal*

        Speaking as a middle-aged Brit, in the UK “CV” seems to mean what “resume” means in the US. I never knew there was a difference (in US parlance) until I read it here a little while ago.

  119. Nathaniel*

    I applied for a position with a large well-known nonprofit, made it through three stages of interviews up to the VP level, and then was notified that they went in another direction, but that “I was a strong candidate.”

    Subsequently, I tried to network with one of the mid-level interviewers on linkedin, but my invitation was ignored even though they viewed my profile, so I withdrew the invitation.

    I left a voicemail for them a few weeks later saying that I believe in the mission of the organization and wondered if they could help me identify any strengths or weaknesses from my interview or brainstorm about potential fit with the organization. The call was not returned.

    Would it be tone deaf to apply to other positions with this organization? If I was a strong candidate, I would like to think there may be fit there. However, I feel like maybe that would be unwelcome. Thoughts?

    1. Temperance*

      I think you might be coming on too strong. Many busy people don’t check Linked In daily. How long was the invite pending? FWIW, I don’t return voicemails like the one you left – I don’t have time.

      I think you should wait a while, and then maybe think about applying, only if it’s a good fit.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I wouldn’t return this voicemail either as it’s asking too much. Honestly I think you need to just chill out for now – rejection sucks, but you don’t want to become That Pushy Person Who Called Again.

    2. Sibley*

      You need to chill. It can be months between my linked in logins. And people handle linked in requests differently. They may just have rules about who they accept on linked in and you don’t fit those rules (and those rules can change, mine have).

      Wait a while before applying to anything else, and keep looking elsewhere.

    3. Snark*

      “I left a voicemail for them a few weeks later saying that I believe in the mission of the organization and wondered if they could help me identify any strengths or weaknesses from my interview or brainstorm about potential fit with the organization. The call was not returned.”

      Honestly? On the hiring end, this kind of request comes off as “I am upset that you didn’t hire me and would like to grill you about why in the guise of getting professional feedback, occasionally demanding justification of points on which I particularly disagree.” And having gotten just that several times when I got soft and accepted the request, I no longer do this.

      You can certainly apply for more positions, but continuing to press them with emails and voicemails is going to come off like you either have problems taking no for an answer or want to litigate your rejection, and that’s a whole lotta nope on their end.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Ah, but you do it in email, not a phone call. (Phone is more of an interruption and people are less likely to respond.) Back in 2007 when I wrote that post — the very first year of this blog — I should have specified that!

          And oh, 2007 me. I wouldn’t write today that I’m always impressed by it; there’s been such an increase in people doing it that it no longer feels that way, unless someone does it in a very sophisticated way, more like this:

          https://www.askamanager.org/2011/05/my-requests-for-post-job-rejection-feedback-are-being-ignored.html

      2. Nathaniel*

        This might be a double post due to software.

        RE: Snark, I can see it coming off that way. I was trying to follow AAM advice as seen here: https://www.askamanager.org/2007/08/asking-for-feedback-after-job-rejection.html

        where the wording was ““I appreciate your time speaking with me about the position, and I hope you’ll keep me in mind if something opens up in the future that you think I would be a good fit for. Is there anything you felt I could do to be a stronger candidate in the future?”

        2. Snark*

          And to clarify! I’m not saying you did that or were consciously or actually being pushy. I’m just offering how it may have looked.

  120. GuiltTrip_AC*

    Hey AAMers,

    I need some advice on not feeling guilty when I have change/update/cancel a project with other teams. I started a new great job at a big company (yay!) where there’s separate teams/departments for everything. It’s amazing, especially I come from a 3-person start-up where I had my hand in almost every part of the business and was stressed out and stretched thin in every aspect.
    I’ve been relieved to have a focus area and have really great coworkers to execute other parts of projects. But whenever I have to connect with these teams about changing something (i.e. we were ready to launch something but realized at the last minute we needed buy-in from some higher ups so the date had to be pushed back, or an email header has to be changed, or a contact form has to be updated), I feel really guilty about it. I’m worried the situation reflects poorly on me as a planner versus on, well, the situation just being kinda inconvenient. A lot of the issues that pop up are out of our control, and really the changes we have had to make have been minor in the grand scheme of things and not particularly difficult to deal with (thankfully!).

    I understand it’s all part of the job. If it were just me performing everything, I don’t think rolling with these punches would bother me at all. But since I have to rope in other people, I’m left feeling anxious about emailing them and guilty about the perceived notion that I’m wasting their time.

    I try to always be appreciative of their efforts and thoughtful of their time when I can be, but is there anything else that can help snap me out of this guilt trip?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Okay so the issues are things outside your control. Why would they reflect personally on you? You don’t like disappointing people but that doesn’t mean they’ll be disappointed with you personally.

  121. Bella*

    My friend has been at a new job for a month but it has turned out to be a very toxic environment. Without going into too much detail, his managers play mind-games instead of managing their new employees, he was misled during the interview (they discussed doing X and talked about Y, which wouldn’t be a part of his responsibilities–and would have been a deal-breaker for my friend had they been… and now he’s now doing X, Y, and Z), and the employer hasn’t provided him with work tools other employees in his department and junior to him have (e.g. a high-end computer capable of handing heavy processes). He’s tried to fix this by talking to the manager, but nothing has come of it. He’s always stressed and close to breaking down due to the long hours he’s forced to work (stable 9-to-5 work hours was another thing he was assured of when he started the job; his current schedule is 7-to-8). He’s hoping to leave soon, and he may end up leaving without a new job lined up because of the toll it’s taking on him.

    My question is–how should he go about resigning. He wants to hand in a two-week notice, but it’s obviously not normal to leave a job after a month. Is there something specific he should say to explain to the company why he’s departing so quickly? They might not be surprised (he learned after he began that he’s the fifth person they’ve hired for this roll in as many months) but I didn’t think a typical “This is my two weeks’ notice, my last day will be X, thank you for the great opportunities” type of letter would cut it here.

    1. H.C.*

      He is not obliged to say more than “I am/will be resigning effective [date].” If he wants, he can outline the various reasons why he’s leaving (the various mismatches between expectations during interview & reality upon his start) but that’s optional, not necessary.

      Also, given his short tenure with the organization, if he’s not counting on a reference & it’s not a small industry where everyone knows everyone – I’d say he’s not even obligated to give the two weeks.

      1. Nathaniel*

        I agree and also would say that constructive criticism is likely not to be heard. Give them two weeks. “For personal reasons I am submitting my resignation, effective on xx date.” Don’t give any more information. Just tell them it is firm and you can’t go into details.

      2. Snark*

        I don’t think he needs to worry about two weeks. That’s theoretically to provide time for an orderly transition, but two weeks in, the starting transition hasn’t even

        I think he could take a parting shot if he wanted – “I am not being issued equipment I need to do my job well, and there are additional work hours and responsibilities I was led to believe would not be a part of my role here” – but they know damn well why everybody leaves.

  122. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    People are no longer allowed to eat at their desks at work here, because it makes messes. But punishment is not fertilizer, people! I’m seriously annoyed. There’s a break room but it’s a real pain to leave every time I want a snack.

    1. not so super-visor*

      Feel your pain — they did something similar here, and the breakroom is 3 floors down from us.

      1. Nathaniel*

        The rule makes sense from a pest management perspective. You may be able to request an exception if you need constant snacks for medical reasons. Otherwise, it is just something to take note of that snacking is not encouraged while working, and find moments to break as needed in your workflow.

    2. Mockingjay*

      I get it from a cleanliness perspective.

      I just changed offices. When I pulled open the desk drawer, I found that the previous occupant had left a plethora of candy wrappers and saltine bits, plus one roach that died from overindulgence of said saltines.

      I also had to clean the first office I had here. That one was so bad I took pictures of the encrusted keyboard that I had to use. It took me three weeks to get rid of the empty boxes someone had dumped beside the desk. I also had to clean food residue and stains on the chair upholstery at the end of each day so it would dry overnight and I could sit on it the next day (took a week to get them all).

      Nice place to work, but the physical environment is less than stellar.

  123. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    I applied to be a “standardized patient” at a nearby med school; it pays comparable hourly rate or more to what I make now, is part-time, and sounds interesting.

    Basically, pretend, for med students, to be a certain patient with given symptoms and background, so their skills at diagnosis and bedside manner can be practiced and graded.

        1. Another bureaucrat*

          Haha. I normally don’t care for Seinfeld, but that ep I may have to track down.

          I’ve worked with SPs at our colleges of medicine and nursing. Good ones add a TON to the learning experience of med students and nurses. I’ve always found it fascinating. They can be used for standard physicals (so med students can practice what it’s like to introduce themselves and then start touching a stranger – which, if you think about it, is probably a jarring thing to do the first time) all the way to providing an opportunity for psych trainees to practice therapy and communication skills. It’s a really neat role!

    2. Fictional Butt*

      My mom once supervised an exam where the standardized patient was so good, the student panicked and thought she was genuinely having a medical crisis.

      So, I hope you do well, but not that well!

    7. Elizabeth West*

      Ha, I would love doing this. I always wanted to volunteer to be a disaster training victim, but I never seem to find out about those exercises in time to do it.

    8. mreasy*

      There was just an episode of the podcast “Sawbones” about standardized patients. Interesting stuff!!

  124. SuperPoodle*

    I’m only a little over a year in my current position, which is a specialized area of library work (I don’t have an MLIS). As a newbie in my specialization, I had an opportunity to apply for a scholarship to offset the cost of attending a conference that I’ve heard is useful for people early in their careers. I was grateful to be awarded the scholarship, and was invited by the awarding committee to attend a dinner for scholarship recipients the evening before the first day of the conference.

    In the initial email, my contact asked if I had any dietary restrictions, and I let her know that I am vegetarian. I didn’t hear back from her for a month; yesterday she emailed confirming that I’d be able to attend the dinner and gave the information for the restaurant. I took a look at the menu and there’s only one item I could potentially eat (and it’s something that’s often made with chicken broth; the menu didn’t specify).

    The conference is in a large, very veg-friendly city, and it’s almost harder to find a restaurant where there are no vegetarian options–I used to live there and could reel off a list! I don’t want to kick up a fuss, but I almost feel like I would rather not have been asked about my dietary needs, so I didn’t have to try to quiet my private grumbles when they weren’t taken into account.

    I don’t feel like I have the standing to ask them to change the restaurant, and I certainly don’t want to inconvenience the planners, but I guess I wanted to check in with other humans about whether it’s legit to be frustrated, what if anything I can say, or how to approach the dinner in Meaty McMeat’s House of Really Just Quite a Lot of Meat. I know I can get a salad and hold the chicken, but I’m socially awkward at the best of times and don’t really know how to stretch that out over two or three courses. (Introversion and social anxiety may also be playing a part in this worry!)

    I know this is such a minor issue, but navigating the conference world is new to me!

    1. Lindrine*

      Have you considered contacting the restaurant directly and asking them about menu accommodations? They might be able to either prepare for your visit or suggest menu item combinations.

      1. SuperPoodle*

        The menu is seasonal, so I may wait until closer to the dinner, but I think that’s a good option! I was worried about being obnoxious or demanding by asking for a lot of modifications on the day, so was thinking of only the simplest approaches (salad, bread). Thanks for the suggestion!

        1. Artemesia*

          A conference menu should cater to vegetarians; it seems that you can’t count on the organizers here, so I would contact the restaurant directly. When I ran a 400 person professional conference we had a vegetarian option that people signaled ahead and they got a special ticket that was a different color. Alas the vegetarian I was sitting next to looked at her plate and said ‘well I can’t eat beans’ — it was some sort of rather nice casserole with beans as the major ingredient. The hotel chef actually was able to come up with an alternative involving pasta. Anyone catering to a large group surely has a vegetarian option better than iceberg lettuce and bread. And if you talk to the restaurant at least you will know.

      2. rageismycaffeine*

        This is what I would do as a fellow vegetarian as well. Chefs are often more than open to making things off-menu. Just make sure they know not to make things with chicken broth or bacon fat or any of the other stealth meats a vegetarian needs to be aware of :)

        1. SuperPoodle*

          You’re right! I live in a super veg-friendly area so virtually never have to ask for chefs to do anything they wouldn’t normally (and I always feel terrible making more work for kitchen staff!), so I pretty much never ask for changes. I think I always figure that those insidious stealth meats are less likely to find their way into dishes that never included them to begin with, so I just go to places I trust and stick to the menu :-)

          Time to screw my courage to the sticking place and be assertive!

      3. over educated*

        Yes, I would do this. Also, it’s possible the organizers might have already done this, or are thinking of doing this, but you don’t know so no harm in duplicating.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      A dinner at a restaurant is a little different from what I am used to with conferences, but it seems like they would probably have a special banquet menu for the event, and they may have a special veg option on that menu. I mean, it would not be practical for 50 people to all order separate things and expect that to be prepared at the same time.

      I would also try to not take the choice of restaurants personally. I live in a BBQ capital, and people definitely try to use BBQ restaurants when events are held for out-of-towners, because it’s our “thing.”

      1. SuperPoodle*

        This dinner is only for the scholarship committee and the scholarship recipients, and the conference itself is pretty small, so I think there will be in the neighborhood of 6-10 people–definitely just a dinner and not a banquet!

        This city is known for microbrews and foodie culture, but is *incredibly* veg(etari)an friendly, so this restaurant is actually a bit outside the norm for the area, which is why I was surprised.

        2. Artemesia*

          oh for a small group like this I would definitely contact the restaurant ahead so you can gracefully manage this. It does seem like they will just be going with the menu since it is a small group rather than a banquet menu.

          When I did the rehearsal dinner for my son we had about 50 people in a nice restaurant with a set menu. One of the things we did was to identify the vegetarians, vegans those who didn’t eat red meat (including the bride) and the restaurant made sure that they had appropriate options. It was a complex multi course tapas type meal and they simply made sure that the vegetarians/ vegans etc were served appropriate choices when the various courses arrived.

  125. Lost Buoy*

    Over the past year, I’ve been the one of two final candidates for 5 jobs. Each time, all the recruiters have told me that it was a difficult decision, but they went with someone with slightly more experience. I’m extremely deflated and frustrated. How do I combat this??? Are the recruiters not telling me the real reason I wasn’t chosen, just to make me feel better? At this point, I feel hopeless and not at all motivated to continue my job search as these job interviews are a huge investment of my time only to lead to nowhere.

    2. Snark*

      A lot of employers are still in the recession mindset that they can demand vast experience for midlevel pay because everyone’s desperate, and they got in the habit of hiring very experienced people for jobs you’d normally hire people with growth and training potential, and so here we are.

      1. Lost Buoy*

        I agree. Is there a way I can fix the lack of experience obstacle? Employers put a range of 3-6+ years and I’m square in the middle. Not sure what, or if anything, I can do…

        1. Snark*

          Yeah, you’re in that awkward “Lost Buoy is experienced, but we can find some poor desperate bastard with 10 years and we might not even have to train him!” window. Not sure what to say. I had the same problem until I finally got scooped up by my current employer, largley because I was prepared to relocate on three weeks’ notice to another state.

  126. Regularly Distracted*

    Hey, I just wanted to update everyone on my PIP. Monday is the last day that I am on the PIP and my boss has scheduled meetings and assigned me projects past that date, so I think I am at least going to have my PIP extrended. Next week I will be able to update you guys on where I am at. I’ve done all the required steps laid out in the PIP so I am optimistic.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Fingers crossed for you. It sounds like you’ve been really diligent and I hope it pays off.

  127. Lindrine*

    I’m starting my first official title project manager gig in about a week. It is a more technical role working with developers. Any software/technical project managers have any tips on getting off to the right start with a new team and new job?

  128. t-minus 4 days*

    I’m so ready to be GONE. I’m cranking away at documentation but keep getting pulled away because my boss keeps sending me fire drills that take hours to resolve. And, my day-to-day work is so complex that I can spend the rest of today, and my weekend, and work late through my remaining few days, to document as many things I can think of, and still guarantee that things will probably implode the second I step out of the building.

    Also, my grand-boss scheduled a half-day team building offsite, which really chaps my behind because I’m leaving so why team-build? I’d really rather spend those 4 hours plugging away at this documentation, it’s just more time I’ll have to take out of my actual weekend to get stuff done. And then I feel guilty because now that I’m leaving, this team-building has a secondary purpose of sending me off – but I hate send-offs and was honestly planning to just ghost out of the building after my exit interview anyway. Aargh.

    1. Lost Buoy*

      It’s almost over! You’re in a great and enviable position. :) If you can keep repeating this over and over during the offsite, maybe that will help save your sanity!

    2. Jessi*

      Can you contact someone further up the food chain and say ‘given that I am leaving it doesn’t make much sense for me to participate in the team building. I was planning on using this time to document x & y (with y and x being Very Important job functions, or even better Truly Vital job duties) which I won’t have time for otherwise.

      Then even if they make you go just cross off 4 hours worth of documenting knowing the big boss thought team building was more important

  129. anonymous hippo*

    I’m wondering if I can get some feedback from people in law.

    My SO is a second year in big law and utterly miserable. She’s been purposely not being available for work, turning down assignments, etc.; and admitted that she expects to be asked to leave at her upcoming review. Recently, she even voiced that she’d like to quit altogether without having anything lined up because she’s so unhappy.

    I’m trying to be supportive, but I’m also worried because we live together and this would affect me a lot. Also, she’s only a second year and this is her first full-time position, so she doesn’t have too much experience yet. If you came across someone like this as a job applicant, would it immediately signal red flags that she was let go or quit without lining something up (like how applicants are usually more attractive when they’re employed)? Or would you be more understanding that big law isn’t for everyone? Do lawyers generally know each other and talk to each other often about applicants? I’m not in law and I understand the field works differently than most fields including mine. I did some research on my own, but would love to hear from real people also.

    1. CM*

      She should talk with someone in her firm about this. She is hardly the first junior associate who has ever realized that biglaw is not for her. But she needs to deal with her misery in a more responsible and healthy way, not by bailing.I would recommend seeing if she has an EAP that would cover some therapy. (No judgement here; I sought therapy when leaving biglaw, and found it very useful.) At the same time, I would recommend approaching somebody at her firm who might have some sympathy, like a professional development coordinator or one of the more humane partners, and explaining her plight. If she expects to be asked to leave, she really has nothing to lose, and it’s likely that they would prefer to cleanly manage her out rather than having to fire her. She may also be able to preserve her reputation by coming clean and admitting that she has not handled this well, and explaining how she plans to better handle her career in the future. The firm has seen this before and will at least see that she has matured during her time there, and that may help her with references in the future. And she needs that reference to get another job. Being let go isn’t a career-killer, but a bad reputation is much harder to recover from.

      As for you, I think you should try to strike a balance between being supportive and being realistic about the situation. Not that you implied this in your post, but please don’t give the slightest hint that you want her to stay for the money. I’d advise you to make a plan that does not rely on her biglaw salary.

    2. Cookie*

      Most people don’t last long in big law, so she’s totally normal there. However, most of my former classmates also had feelers out to non-profits, in-house gigs, etc. and planned a transition rather than being let go without a plan. I understand that can be hard to do when you’re burnt out. I hope she can hang in there long enough to find something else, or else leave on her own terms. The People’s Therapist is a great blog for people burnt out on big law, you may find more advice there.

    3. Artemesia*

      She isn’t likely to get another law gig when walking away from a firm like this. I would confer with her mentor at the firm and see if he or she could facilitate her placement in a more low key environment. Lots of people don’t thrive in the high pressure of a big law firm and being up front about it and using the assistance of the people there to locate a better spot may work well For example, in house lawyers have less prestige but those positions often pay decently and are a lot less stressful. The firm may have connections with organizations that may be willing to hire her in such a role. Or they may be aware of smaller more low key firms that might take her on. She needs to use the resources at hand and not hide from the problem till she is fired. This is not unusual; lots of people leave big law, so own it and use the connections she has to see if they can help her find a better placement. Unless she has totally alienated them they are likely to be relieved at the idea of helping her make a transition to something else.

  130. Elle*

    Let’s talk office decorating! What have you seen that’s a good way to make the boring drone factory a little more personal.

    One thing I’ve seen done is taking a bunch of little frames (5×7 I think) and spray painting them with the company colors and then giving each employee in a team a picture in a frame, ending up with a collage on the wall with everyone included.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I don’t get it. What’s in the frame? A selfie of each person? That’s not personal if it’s in company colours and the picture is provided – that’s still corporate, no?

      1. Elle*

        The picture isn’t provided, it’s one the employee submits and is more like a candid shot than a business-y head shot. I’m guessing most of them were posted to Facebook originally.

    2. LDP*

      I interned at a PR firm once that moved office spaces, and we all got to help with the redecorating process and it was super fun!

      The new space had room for a little sitting area, so we picked out super colorful furniture, which was nice since we were in an old industrial type space. We also had one of the walls painted in a pattern with the company colors, and hung up string lights to make it feel more cozy. I know all of that isn’t always practical in every work space, but we all loved it!

      The company I work for now has TVs in all the elevator bays and other spaces that cycle through different slides. HR benefits, company events, company trivia, photos of different employees, things like that. It’s nice since we’re an international company, so we can see things that are going on in our other locations.

    3. Chaordic One*

      I bought a couple of cheap posters from WalMart and also a couple of sale art prints from AllPosters-dot-com to personalize and soften my small office. (I probably spent about $20.oo on them total.) But that was just me. A lot of my coworkers continue to work in bare little offices with gray walls.

  131. Nancy*

    I need help on protocol. My area is basically non-profits and that’s what I’ve been looking at to find a new job. The market in my area is very small, so not a lot of opportunities. The most recent challenge I’ve come across is the smaller non-profits don’t have health insurance. It is not a big shocker, but it is something I HAVE to have because I won’t be able to get it cheaply any other way and I don’t have a spouse to supply it. I applied for a position a few weeks ago, they will be reviewing soon, but they did not list health benefits on the job listing. It’s a local branch of a bigger non-profit. I don’t know if they will interview me or not, but my problem is, that if they don’t have insurance, I can’t take it, no matter the pay and other benefits. Should I have applied since they didn’t mention that in the posting? Is that a tell-tell sign that they probably don’t have it? Is there a way in the future I can inquire (I tried asking around) before applying so I don’t waste anyone’s time?

  132. Product person*

    I was waiting impatiently for the open thread to ask everybody this:

    Are you someone who naturally treats everybody in the workforce equally, or had to “train” yourself to do so?

    Here’s the context for my question: in the update for the post “CEO’s wife ruined my job prospects”, there was this discussion about how people shouldn’t even have to learn to be polite to the receptionist/janitor/security guard when going to an interview. I definitely agree that we should always be kind to everybody regardless of personal gain considerations, but then I started thinking that the opposite is also possible. Meaning, you may naturally treat people with less authority than you well, and people above you with less kindness. I’m definitely that type!

    Since I was a child, I was always very polite to people providing services to me in restaurants, flights, cab rides, etc., and when I started my career (as an engineer, with more “status” than people working, say, in the factory floor), it’s been natural to me to be super respectful of receptionists, the cleaning staff, etc. On the other hand, I never had a problem with disagreeing with my bosses and even sometimes being a bit rude about it, I admit.

    So, I did have to “learn” how to treat my bosses as kindly as I used to treat colleagues and subordinates… For some reason, in my mind people in authority didn’t have to be “protected” from my natural level of bluntness like others did. Has anyone here gone through this experience? I’m super curious to know how common (or rare) my situation is!

    1. Princess Carolyn*

      I was raised in a household where I was treat as almost an equal to my parents: I was encouraged to share my opinion, felt like my preferences mattered, and generally didn’t get in trouble for questioning my parents or vocally disagreeing with them. The good thing about that: I rarely have trouble speaking up. The downside: Deferring to authority figures doesn’t come naturally to me. I do occasionally run into an executive or manager who finds me overly informal or potentially argumentative because I tend to talk to superiors as peers — even though I realize ultimately they call the shots. It’s probably one of the many reasons I wasn’t happy in banking, which is so formal and hierarchical compared to media and advertising.

      2. CM*

        I’m the opposite, I had to learn not to be so deferential. (And was raised in a household where I was taught to do as I was told, and to never express a need or an opinion.) My deference to authority was fine in low-level positions, and my bosses loved me when I was a teenager and would meekly do whatever they said. But that didn’t work so well when I took or more responsibilities and still was very hesitant to speak up and raise questions. It took me a while and some coaching to get over that.

    2. rageismycaffeine*

      Are you me? I JUST got a note on my performance review (which was not supposed to have any surprises, and yet, this was something I had never heard before, go figure) that I’m too negative. The way I see it is that this “negativity” is actually calling a spade a spade and I don’t see any reason to censor myself in a meeting with my boss or in leadership meetings, the two scenarios in which I was criticized. Outward facing I am all smiles and rainbows and nobody ever knows if I’m having a rough day or my morale is in the toilet or something else. I view leadership and boss meetings as the time to be honest – but my boss viewed it as dwelling on the negative.

      And then he fell all over himself reassuring me that he really enjoys my candor and I’m a “breath of fresh air.” So now I really don’t know how to act with him. Which is fun. :)

      1. Observer*

        I think he wants to keep hearing honest feedback, but expressed a little more tactfully and with less of a downward spin.

        It’s not so much censoring yourself, but how you express it and how you focus.

        “that’s a dumb idea, it’ll never work because of x,y and z, boo!” is negative “I see x, y and z issues with this idea. We might be able to fix x by bla bla, which would have these repercussions. I don’t know if we can do anything with y. And Z is something we can’t do anything about.” Is not exactly what anyone wants to hear, but different.

        Also, along with naming all the spades, do you ever name the roses?

        1. Kerr*

          “Also, along with naming all the spades, do you ever name the roses?”
          Such an excellent way of putting it! This is a lesson I’m slowly learning. I REALLY appreciate people giving me kudos and appreciative or complimentary comments, or pointing out the good as well as the bad. Do I make a point of doing that in return? Apparently not. I just move right on to the next thing, yay, that’s done, thanks, and did you see that your new project has A, B, and C issues? The negativity isn’t intended, but it’s read.

          I guess I assume that the good parts are all a given, and my job (not actually my job) is to find the flaws to improve the project. I need to clarify that I actually DO like the core idea, or aspects of it, before launching into Critical Mode.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I treat everyone equally. A mix of being respectful of people in service roles and a bit overly deferential towards authority when I was younger which has given way to a more self-respecting respect for authority if that makes sense: I’m less scared!

      This is actually one of my strong points, to the extent that it came up in my end of probation review that it had been noticed that I formed relationships with people all over the place. I am on smile and say hi terms with the CEO and the cleaners. I was incredibly socially awkward at school (like, Never Been Kissed levels of awkward) and have no idea how or when I developed this particular trait.

    4. Liz*

      My SIL just commented that I disagree a lot. It was in the context of me asking for feedback about my problem supervisor so it was appropriate for her to say but it really was a surprise. For example, she said maybe your boss sees things x way. I said no, boss explicitly said she did not and gave an example to illustrate. SIL pointed out that I disagreed with her just then and maybe i do it with the boss and boss takes this the wrong way.

      Putting 2 and 2 together, I think I do state what I think when asked or in a discussion (not when boss says do x, then I just do x). My family did do that a lot growing up. So I do treat people like we are all equals and feel comfortable discussing things. But many times people see that as arguing and I don’t always see that. You have given me good food for thought here.

    5. T3k*

      My MB personality once stated that I don’t automatically respect someone just because they have authority, and looking back it’s very true. Even in elementary school, if a teacher ridiculed me, I shot back, but if the teacher was nice, I was nice. As you can imagine this led to quite a few arguments with the mean teachers. But this also allowed me to speak up to my boss when I knew something couldn’t be done or if I knew a better way. Of course, this makes me come off as argumentative sometimes.

  133. perd*

    I am in a weird spot. Next week, I will be conducting phone interviews (about 20 minutes each) for a position that will be superior to my own but in a different department. The task fell to me because my supervisors are unavailable on the day the phone interviews as are scheduled. Two questions:
    1) I have never been in an interview on the hiring side before. Would anyone with experience care to share advice on how to do a good job, especially with a phone interview?
    2) Do you have suggestions for how I can add this experience to my resume? It doesn’t feel like an achievement with a potential outcome – I will be doing this because more important people are out that day.

    1. fposte*

      On 1, Alison has several posts, especially the one called “advice for a first time job interviewer,” that you should find useful. I’ll link in followup for easier access.

      On 2, a one-off go with phone interviews might not rise to resume-worthy. I think it’s best likelihood is tucked into a list of stuff that you’ve stretched to from time to time (“occasionally negotiating vendor contracts and conducting phone interviews”).

      (I love Perd.)

    2. Kate*

      If it’s a one-day task, I don’t think it rises to the level of resume-worthiness. It’s something you could mention in an interview as an example of how you’re the to-go for important tasks or how you’re flexible and a team player or whatever.

      Phone interview best practices:
      –Open by introducing yourself, how you relate to the role (briefly), and an overview of the call. Like, “I’d like to tell you a bit about our company and this role. Then we’ll go through some questions about your experience and what you’re looking for. After that, I’d like to use the remaining time to answer any questions you have. Does that sound good to you?” Ask them if that’s ok with them– it levels the field a bit. They will always say yes.
      –Like any interview, have a list of questions to work from. You can add follow-ups as needed, but a list will keep you focused and ensure you get the info you need.
      –Let them ask questions at the end. If you get a question you’re not able to answer, say, “I’m not sure– I’m the XYZ, so that’s not in my purview– but I’ll get an answer from the manager and email you.” If they ask multiple questions you can’t answer, say, “These are great questions, but they’re better suited for the manager. As the XYZ, I’ll be most helpful in answering your questions about X.”
      –Thank them, and tell them what the next steps are at the end. Don’t commit to a firm deadline for next steps. Deadlines always get changed. “For next steps, the manager will conduct in-person interviews. We have not yet started scheduling those. We will be in touch to let you know if you’ll be moving forward for an in-person interview. In the meantime, if you have any questions, you can contact so-and-so at X email address.”

      Good luck!

      1. perd*

        Thank you for the detailed advice! I especially like your tips for what to do if they ask a question that I don’t know about (which is very likely, given the circumstances).

    3. Artemesia*

      Do you have a script? Or a list of questions? I usually organize phone interviews around 3-5 topics or major questions with probes. It is critical to get people to talk in specifics and for the questions to be open ended. I like behavioral questions ‘tell me about a time when. . .’ or questions where they have to describe how they might do something on the job . ‘if you were preparing a program on leadership, what are the main principles you would organize it around?’

      If you haven’t been given questions to structure the interview you should get some specific guidance from your bosses on what to cover. If you have then, you need an introductory interaction to set them at ease and get to know them. It can be something like, ‘tell me a bit about yourself and why you are interested in Teapot Design.’ And then seque into the topics you want to focus on.

  134. Patty Mayo*

    Has anyone here used a part-time gig to eventually take on a full-time role with a company? I’m working part-time (in addition to my day job) for a company I really like and would love to hear some success stories. I don’t think this company will hire me to do exactly this position full-time (I don’t think they have a full-timer on staff for this function), but there may be some related roles that would work for me. It’s a large, growing company, but it’s also relatively well known and I suspect they have a lot of excellent choices when it comes to hiring, so I’m a little intimidated.

    1. rageismycaffeine*

      I know someone who started with a consulting firm that’s well-known in our industry on a part-time, temporary basis and was hired by them full-time after about a year. I’m not sure if the company in question was deliberately using the temp position as a way to scoping out the skills of potential hires, or if my friend just really wowed them with their skills and they decided to bring her on, or something in between – but it for sure does happen!

      PS – the company you work for probably does have excellent choices when it comes to hiring, and they probably had excellent choices in hiring part-time – and they chose you. So I think that’s a good sign in your favor. :)

  135. Princess Carolyn*

    How does salary negotiation work for 100% remote positions? I’m in a low COL area but looking at positions with headquarters in places like New York, SF, and DC — so which market should I research to determine a fair wage?

    1. Diluted_Tortoise_Shell*

      Where you live. That’s how the company will have to classify you. They are also beholden to the laws of your state vs their headquarters for remote workers.

  136. failed writer*

    How would you describe a failed business on your resume? I quit my job to pursue a freelance/creative career (blogger/self-publishing books/etc.) but it is likely I’ll try to get back into a “real” job if it doesn’t pan out and start making a profit in the next year. If you were a hiring manager, what would make you think that I am a hard worker but it just didn’t work out for me in the creative sense?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Don’t say you failed. Say you miss working in a team. Don’t consider it a failed business, but a job you’re choosing to move on from.

      Source: ex-freelancer. I didn’t fail, I just didn’t want to do it any more. Nobody asked because I had already explained why I wanted the job. It will help if you have a kick ass covering letter.

    2. Artemesia*

      There are two businesses that never ‘fail’ — you can be a consultant or a free lancer till you decide not to be. You never have to admit no one wanted your opinion or your writing. Have a positive reason to change directions and on you roll.

  137. Princess Carolyn*

    Sorry, sorry, I have another one. I’m trying to get over imposter syndrome and recognize my own strengths, but I’m not sure where to start. What are some things you’re good at?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I am good at estimating how long it will take me to do things and thus planning my time realistically, writing, remembering where I found a piece of information (in the 2015 teapots report on the polkadot drive, say), and answering people’s questions without making them feel stupid.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          Gah, I was hoping to inspire you to post some of your own, not hate on yourself.

          2. Princess Carolyn*

            I’m just so impressed by those specific talents you mention! Let’s see… I’m extremely empathetic, I’m good at handling tight deadlines, I’m good at writing copy that’s approachable and relatable, I learn new technology pretty quickly…

            1. Ramona Flowers*

              Those are AMAZING talents. And some are the same as the ones you just told me you wish you had!

            2. Ramona Flowers*

              PS it’s actually really hard to find people who write well to deadline. When you can do it, it may feel like something everyone should surely be able to do. But not everyone can. You can though!

    2. Amber Rose*

      I’m good at paperwork. Give me a 200 page document to go through and complete, and I will plow through that sucker in a few days. I get most of the “dealing with regulatory agencies” work because nobody else has the patience or the writing skills. But I thrive with it.

      On a soft skills level, I make people feel comfortable. I can get along with almost any personality type and I make people want to talk to me about things.

  138. not so super-visor*

    I have another interesting question/topic. I have a direct report who was recently been diagnosed with a non-Celiac gluten intolerance. I also have a similar issue but was diagnosed several years ago, so I’ve been pretty sympathetic. She is struggling with her lifestyle change and sometimes deliberately makes “bad” food choices that impact her health. For example, someone will bring in donuts or bagels for the team, and she will make the decision to eat them even though she knows that they’re not gluten free. (I typically skip the treat as it’s not worth the discomfort) Or, she’ll call into work sick because she went out for pizza the night before. I’ve had to send her home twice after she had an intestinal related “bathroom accident,” and she’s called in several times for the same reason.
    Monday, she called in again. She’d had a bathroom accident on her way to work and decided to stay home after changing clothes. I was sympathetic on the phone, but inwardly annoyed as we are already short-staffed. Big Boss was furious. My initial reaction is to say that it’s a health related incident no different than someone having the flu and getting sick on the way to work. He likened it to someone with a drinking problem who had too much the night before and wasn’t fit to work the next day.
    Thoughts?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      That’s tough. On the one hand, you want to accommodate the needs that accompany her illness. On the other hand, *she* is not even accommodating her illness, so I can see your Big Boss’s POV as well. I’d have more sympathy if she were trying, rather than shooting herself in the foot and then complaining about her hurt foot.

    2. fposte*

      Is this a really small company? I’m trying to figure out why Big Boss knows what this person is eating on a given day. Big Boss needs to realize it’s not his business.

      If she were writing in, I’d advise her to stop oversharing about why she’s sick; it seems like maybe her comradeship with you is taking her in a direction that’s not helping her. For her bosses, I’m with you: it’s not up to you to decide whether she got sick in a wrong way or a right way. Is your boss going to deny leave to athletes who injure themselves, too? Or the sedentary who have heart attacks?

      If she’s burned through her sick leave, then that’s its own issue to be dealt with accordingly; intermittent FMLA might be worth considering as well.

      1. not so super-visor*

        I think that you’re right — she’s oversharing. None of us would know that the illness was related to her food choices if she didn’t throw in comments like “I knew I shouldn’t have eaten that donut, but it looked too good to pass up.”

      2. paul*

        Except she’s eating foods she’s been told not to eat, while at work, and then going home sick after doing so. Repeatedly (not so super mentions her eating bagels and donuts). And it sounds like she’s *said* that’s why she’s calling in if I read this right.

        I get being accommodating but like..they’re publicly doing exactly what they’ve been told not to do, time after time, and it’s making them miss a lot of work. I think being aggravated and annoyed is both reasonable and predictable. I kind of have to side with Big Boss, particularly as more incidents keep piling up.

        1. fposte*

          Sure. And lots of runners are running when they aren’t supposed to, and lots of diabetics don’t control very well, and lots of people with various illnesses go off their meds when they shouldn’t.

          I think there’s something about food that makes this seem more appropriate to judge, but it’s really not. Add in the fact that non-celiac gluten sensitivities can cover a wide variety of sins that are not always diagnosed or managed correctly on the medical side, and I think the only sane way to do this is to decide if she’s taking too many days off for the job or not. Plus that saves you thinking so much about your co-worker’s bowels.

          1. fposte*

            Adding: I think it’s fine to privately eyeroll; I might or might not at the staying home all day, since I don’t know what her commute is like–and I also don’t know and don’t want to know if her accidents are a one-and-done kind of thing or if there’s a possibility of aftershocks. But this is actually being really, debilitatingly sick, and food is a hard, hard thing to change your habits on. Let’s go for the parallel of the cigarette smoker out for respiratory stuff–I don’t have to like what she’s doing, but not liking what she’s doing is different from thinking it’s something that should affect my management.

            I mean, food police. You don’t ever want to be it. Not even here, not even with her.

      3. Elizabeth H.*

        I 100% agree. She should stop oversharing about her illness. We have actually had a similar question before (from someone who ate expired food all the time and got sick all the time? Or something like that?) and one with a related concept about somebody who did extreme sports getting injured and unable to work and whether it was OK. At least I think I remember the latter, but not as specifically.

    3. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

      So she went back home to change, and then decided not to come in? I think you have legitimate cause to be annoyed with that. Imagine someone had a “menstrual accident” or something. You wouldn’t excuse them for the rest of the day. As an “older” woman, I’m dealing with a lot of unpleasant and unexpected changes with my cycle and have had some accidents. So I stow some backup clothes in my office for such occurrences. I would not expect to be excused to go home & change any time that happened (plus, personally I’d rather not make it known why I needed to go home and change, which would be pretty noticeable if I was doing it frequently).

      1. Artemesia*

        And since this is a problem she is dealing with and knows about and knows she isn’t following the diet, of course sensibly she would have a couple of changes of clothes at work for such contingencies.

        1. Artemesia*

          And if this is happening often as it apparently –well there are undergarments that are discreet and available so that she is not going to need to have a change of clothes. There is no excuse for repeatedly having to go home to change.

    4. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

      @Not so Super-Visor: It almost sounds like your direct report is doing these things on purpose to get out of work. You may want to speak with her about the seriousness of this disease. as a fellow sufferer, you can relate. (but tread lightly as you don’t want to breach any HIPAA laws). And also convey to her about the seriousness of all of her absences.

      2. Snark*

        “but tread lightly as you don’t want to breach any HIPAA laws”

        ….which do not apply to anybody but medical professionals and service providers. No law abridges your ability to discuss health matters with a subordinate, friend, stranger, or whomever.

          1. Snark*

            Honest mistake! I feel like a lot of really weird, wrong information about HIPAA circulated when it passed, and a lot of folks got crosswise on it.

      3. Observer*

        I think your assumption on doing this to get out of work is off base – these incidents are bad enough in general, that that would be a really strange thing to do. If that’s really what is happening, I’d want to know what’s going on that is making her so miserable that she’d rather do that to herself.

        If not so super-visor DOES approach her employee, she needs to tread lightly for a different reason. It’s invasive and gets very close to some boundaries that really should not be crossed.

    5. podcaster*

      i’m less sympathetic since she appears to be choosing food that will cause her problems later! i might bring her in and ask her what’s going on– since it is affecting her work. i liken it to a diabetic who won’t manage their blood sugar and passes out at work all the time. they need to manage their health, right?

    6. Fictional Butt*

      I might be totally off base, but it sounds to me like she might be having trouble with the social/lifestyle adjustment part of her new diet (since I’m assuming she isn’t making herself sick just for kicks). Like your boss’s comparison to an alcoholic who keeps drinking–I’d say she might be like an alcoholic who hasn’t yet figured out how to cope in the situations in which they used to drink (or in this case, eat gluten). Is that something you struggled with also when you were first diagnosed? Would it be appropriate to your relationship for you to give her some advice in that area? (Not that you should need to be her diet coach.)

    7. Ramona Flowers*

      “She’d had a bathroom accident on her way to work and decided to stay home after changing clothes.”

      That’s way more information than I’d ever give my boss. Wow.

    8. Snark*

      There’s a voluntary aspect to her getting sick, so I fall more in your boss’ camp.

      1. Academia Escapee*

        I agree. If you make a choice to do something, you have to accept the consequences. If the consequences affect your ability to work, then you suffer the consequences for not being able to work. This is not on par with catching the flu (which is not a conscious choice, usually). This isn’t something that’s “happening” to her – it’s the consequence of her decision. Part of that is causing issues at work. IMO, she needs to experience some consequences for missing work when she can avoid doing so (reprimands for not getting work done, missing deadlines, not being available, etc.) It’s the same as if someone chooses not to set an alarm and is late for work the next day as a result. You don’t just give them a pass because you understand why it happened – it’s up to them to avoid it happening.

        1. fposte*

          I’m going to push back on this pretty strongly. She didn’t make a choice to be sick; that is what’s happening to her. I feel like I’ve struck a vein of people who all yearn for the day they can take their food in pill form because that’s the most logical.

          This is food. This is food people love, and that she’s been eating all her life, and that she’s still surrounded by. It really isn’t simple just to say oh, never mind, I won’t eat it. It’s like a lifetime relationship that’s suddenly become intermittently abusive and she can’t just avoid the person; it’s like if you worked with your mother, who you loved for three decades and who suddenly had some temporal lobe thing where she’d pinch you, only you, on the arm until you bruised at work. And people would say why were you even talking to her? And you’d say well, it’s my mom, and everybody else at work was talking with her, and she’s really hard to avoid seeing and I love my mom, and maybe things are back to normal now because I really want that.

          She’s sick, she was just diagnosed, she’s not yet figured out her management. Even healthy people have a tough time managing their relationship with food and eat stuff they shouldn’t, and lots of people recently diagnosed with all kinds of things, not just digestive, have trouble managing. I’d hope people could cut a little more sympathy to somebody sick who’s still adjusting to the fact that she can’t do what she used to do and what tons of other people are doing around her. If she’s not in the office enough, that’s a thing to deal with, but I don’t think people get to be mad that she could be in the office more than she is if she just did what they thought she should.

    9. anon for this*

      A coworker and I have the same disease and food restrictions. I comply 100%. She complies maybe 10%. I’ll admit. I get super annoyed when she’s sick because in my head she does it to herself. At the same time though, I recognize that I am a “model patient” and most people, for whatever reason, are not as compliant as I am. I shouldn’t hold her to my standards. Luckily I am not her supervisor so I don’t really have to hold her to anything. I do think she gets less sympathy from the bosses since they know more about her issues from conversations with me about my issues. I don’t discuss her. They just know we deal with the same thing.

  139. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

    I’m currently an Admin Assistant. Can this role parlay into a Project Coordinator role?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Depends on your workplace. Are there additional Projector Coordinator–like responsibilities you can take on? Has your workplace historically allowed people to change departments or get promoted?

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        Thanks. I’ve been applying for positions outside of my current workplace. I’ve been curious about the Project Coordinator roles. When I look at the job description, it certainly looks like something I could do–even with my Admin Assistant background. I’m just wondering if hiring managers would consider someone with an Admin Assistant background for a Project Coordinator role.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          I mean, honestly, that’s my primary criterion when looking at a job (“Can I do this?”). Sure, having the on-paper direct experience or titles that the hiring manager is looking for is a big help, but I’ve gotten jobs in the past I’m not technically “qualified for” but that I (and the hiring manager, evidently) knew I could actually do.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      In my company, a project coordinator is basically the “admin assistant” for the project, so it’s very common for people to transition from one to the other. You would have document control responsibilities and quality-checking responsibilities, but would also be helping the team arrange travel and meeting planning.

      In some companies, I believe this is more of a PM-entry level type of job, but not here. You won’t likely get into a PM role from this because our PMs come from technical backgrounds. Although, if you’re just looking for a change and not necessarily advancement, then it would still be a good option.

  140. Rabbit Gal*

    My job is dysfunctional in so many ways, but I’ve reached my breaking point and I need to get out. I have a chronic disease that’s never going to get better, so I have intermittent FMLA for the really bad days. The absence system is really strict, so I have to do the FMLA paperwork every year to keep from getting fired, even when I’m missing maybe a day or two a month. My supervisor has no problem with my performance, but it seems like HR is trying to force me out without saying outright that I’m disabled. I had to refile the paperwork last month, and HR immediately denied it because they wanted a third or fourth copy of my doctor’s information. It’s in the forms multiple times. HR told me to print out another form they emailed me and have the doctor fax it in. The email specifically said they needed that form. I can’t print from my work computer without the risk of getting fired. I called my supervisor and HR 4 times to ask if the form could be sent to my non-work email, but had no response until after the deadline they gave me. HR finally called to say they just needed a letterhead and it was my fault for the delay. I got my doctor to fax in a letterhead, but didn’t get confirmation for a week that they received it. I *do* have it renewed now, but I can’t do this another year.
    Sorry, I needed to vent.

      1. Rabbit Gal*

        I should have left before now. They once tried telling me life-threatening allergic reactions weren’t covered by the ADA. This was after they knowingly put up air fresheners I was allergic to. They kept them up until I had to leave in an ambulance. I work at home now, anyway…
        I think they hate me, but I know some other people who’ve worked there that they’ve pushed out who have health problems.

        1. Sunshine Brite*

          Omg document if you haven’t been already. How awful a workplace, consider researching your legal options

        2. Observer*

          Please document your head off. And, if you can, send a copy of each of these emails to a personal account, so you have a copy if you need it.

  141. Kimberlee, Esq.*

    Hey ya’ll! I have a new manager this week! What do you think I should make sure to talk with her about/go over/do/not do while our relationship is so new?

    2. LDP*

      My manager is relatively new, and I think one of the best things you can do is guide them as subtly as you can. I know my company has some unspoken rules, so I just tried to quietly pull him aside and let him know what was going on whenever he wouldn’t understand otherwise.

      I think you also almost have to look at it like you’re new to the job. Make sure you’re on time and as polished and professional as you can be, so they get a positive impression of you from the get-go.

      And maybe ask them very straightforwardly what they need to manage you effectively. They might want to be more hands-on with projects while they’re still learning what exactly you do, or they may just let you do your thing. I think it’s best just to have an honest and open conversation about these things.

      Good luck with your new manager!

  142. Stephern*

    The bite post early this week got me thinking. If someone shoved or gave some sort of physical response to a coworker who bit or in some way purposefully harmed them, would they be in trouble/fired? Does it depend on the severity, say a punch instead of a shove?

    1. Stephern*

      This would be in a normal, functioning workplace with neither of them having any problems or issues before this.

    2. rageismycaffeine*

      I would think it would be viewed as self-defense if they were not the initial aggressor, but I really don’t know. I imagine there are companies with a 100% zero tolerance attitude to things like this and everyone involved would be punished. Whether that would always be firing or not I don’t know – I would bet a formal assault charge would figure into those decisions. Hmm.

    3. Kowalski! Options!*

      Ooh, here at the Ministry of Teapots, you’d get put on warning and you could probably get your union to back you up – but you’d be skating on really thin ice.

    4. Manders*

      It’s so dependent on the situation and the people involved that it’s touch to make a blanket rule. If my extremely strong, tall husband punched a student or a much smaller teacher and did serious damage, yeah, punishment and maybe even firing would definitely be warranted. If he shoved or grabbed them to get them away or get control of the situation, that’s less likely to be a punishable offense. As a short and fairly weak woman, I might be able to get away with a wider ranger of responses because I’m just not capable of restraining people as effectively and I’m less likely to permanently harm someone with a punch or slap.

      This may not be 100% fair, but I believe that when you’re taller and stronger than someone, or if you’ve got significant training in martial arts to the point that you could really mess someone up, you have an extra responsibility to be aware of your own strength and not seriously harm people by lashing out. But I also understand that people don’t think rationally in fights and the person who was attacked gets some leeway when it comes to defending themselves.

      Just in general, that situation seemed like a massively toxic mess. I did have some sympathy for the OP–she did seem genuinely mortified and surprised by her own behavior–but when you escalate a situation like that you have to accept that shoving is a normal response.

      (Funny coincidence, we were just talking about biting yesterday in karate class. According to the sensei, who really knows her stuff, biting is an incredibly aggressive thing to do. It’s a great self-defense move *because* it’s so far from normal behavior that it can freak people out.)

    5. fposte*

      It really depends. Some places have the grade-school zero tolerance thing going where they’d both get fired. Some places it would be more situational, but it would probably at least get written down in a file somewhere at most places.

    6. Brogrammer*

      I know someone who got fired for shoving a coworker when he physically backed her into a corner and refused to move. The place was a shit show anyway, but I still think it was messed up to fire her for defending herself.

  143. Teacup turtle*

    Does anyone have any suggestions for good online tutoring websites? I’m thinking of doing some part-time tutoring work alongside my studies. My university has suggested the Skills Academy, but I have no experience with them Thank you :)

    1. Foreign Octupus*

      Someone recommended Varsity Tutors to me in this thread. I can’t personally recommend them though as I haven’t used them. It also depends on what you’re tutoring. If it’s a language then I recommend iTalki, but I’m otherwise out of ideas.

  144. Crabby*

    I had a serious medical crisis last year that has sent me into a tailspin. I am physically recovered now, but emotionally a wreck – have been struggling with depression at levels I haven’t had in fifteen years, constantly readjusting my meds, seeing a therapist every week, etc. During this I have continued to work full-time at a place that I commute more than an hour to in each direction. I’ve been here for almost three years; I like my boss and he was tremendously supportive during my crisis last year and even promoted me just after I came back from a month’s FMLA. But there are upper leadership issues and I would probably be ready to look for another job right now if the other issues hadn’t cropped up.

    I have felt in my gut for a long time that I really need to take a break from my job to try to get my head back on straight, but haven’t quite gotten up the nerve to pull the trigger. This commute is absolutely killing me and I have enough issues with fatigue and a lack of energy without it. I am getting to work from home one day a week (when I see my therapist) but I had to have an ADA accommodation for it (a whole other story). I am just in a really bad place emotionally and I don’t feel I can do the work I need to do to sort myself out while I’m still dragging myself through two and a half hours of a commute every day.

    I could take FMLA but I feel like having a deadline of coming back to work would just loom over my head like “ok, this is your deadline to figure out how to function again.” I could quit entirely but the idea of having a gap in my resume and then a potentially indefinite period of unemployment when I am ready to rejoin the workforce terrifies me. I’ve been struggling with a decision for months now and in the meantime I just keep dragging myself to work and I’m genuinely scared I’m headed for a breakdown if i don’t take more proactive steps.

    Any advice from the commentariat? I know I need to take care of myself above all but I just can’t figure out what form it should take.

    1. KiteFlier*

      I’m so sorry you’re going through this, Crabby. I would advise that you discuss your thoughts of taking leave first with your therapist and your doctor. Return to work dates change all the time based on your need – whatever the doctor says initially could always be extended. If you find yourself needing time past the 12 weeks FMLA allows, extended leave may be an option as an ADA accommodation. Good luck!

      1. Crabby*

        Thank you for your kind words, and your suggestion. It never occurred to me that extended leave could be an accommodation. That’s amazing, thank you.

        I have talked about it with my therapist and she is all for me taking a break, but has stopped short of telling me whether I should make a permanent break or go the FMLA route. If someone would just make a decision for me that would make my life so much easier… :)

    2. Argh!*

      Another month of FMLA could do you a world of good. Your emotional issues could be tied to your physical ones and vice versa. You can tell your boss that you came back to work too soon and had a setback (though you aren’t required to tell your boss anything). Do you think you could use that time off for journaling or group therapy or something extra? Using the downtime for self-reflection and getting distance from drama at work could help you come to a good decision for yourself.

  145. Josie*

    Anyone have any tips for how to work with a boss that doesn’t like questions, especially if I ask if there is a set procedure for something? If I do she just tells me everyone needs to do things for the first time, and she had to learn everything on her own so I should be able to as well. Of course I can, it’s just with some things it makes more sense if someone showed me once so I don’t have to “reinvent the wheel”. Like the time she told me I needed to help out with the post. I’m more than happy to, and have been wanting to help with it for a while (I actually asked the coworker in charge of that last fall if I could help her, but she declined). To do this I need access to a specific computer and a password protected website, but when I asked about that she once again told me she had to learn everything on her own so I should be able to as well. I wanted to bang my head on my desk.

    My boss is good at her job, and a nice person, it just seems questions are taken almost as an offense at times. I try not to ask any, but there are times it’s unavoidable.

    1. rageismycaffeine*

      I hate the “I had to do it so you do too” attitude. Because we’re all made exactly the same way and think the same and work the same. Ugh.

      Is it possible that she’s reacting badly to what she views as “interruptions” on her time? She could be overworked or stressed and not even aware of how she comes off (I had a boss like this once). Could you maybe ask for a block of time every week for discussions and questions so that it’s scheduled and she doesn’t feel like she’s being pulled away from something else?

      Also, curious – how long has she been your boss, and how long has she been *a* boss?

      1. Josie*

        We (boss, coworker, and me) have a weekly meeting, and if I have questions I try to bring it up then so I don’t interrupt her. She is overworked and stressed, but is also pretty unwilling to delegate anything (it took almost 6 months for me to be given permisson the post on our fb page even though she hates it, and I have previous experience and offered to help). Sometimes she’s the one who brings something up, and when I ask questions to get a better idea about what she’s thinking, she’ll get annoyed with me. F.ex. a few moths ago she, out of the blue, told me I was posting too much on fb, it was annoying to our patrons (about 5-7 times a week, and I’d only gotten positive feedback from the patrons), and also I needed to post different things. When I asked what she thought could be more fitting for our audience, and what sort of posts she would like to see, she got upset with me. I needed to figure that out on my own.

        She’s been my boss for about 9 months and *a* boss for almost 30 years, so she’s not new at this.

        1. Argh!*

          I have this kind of boss, who only knows what she wants when she doesn’t get it. She’s also terribly disorganized, doesn’t delegate, and because grandboss is similar, she gets pulled into all kind of meetings and committees because nobody beneath that level can be trusted to have a brain (even though we all have master’s degrees). So… in my opinion, questions annoy her because they remind her of her inadequacies and then she projects them onto me as *my* inadequacies. (I’m looking for another job)

          Just because someone has years of “experience” doesn’t mean they’ve become good at it! In fact, she may have risen to her level of incompetence and can’t move up because of her faults.

    2. Elizabeth H.*

      I have the opposite personality flaw, I’ve also taught myself pretty much everything I do on a regular basis at work, but I get overprotective of knowledge and have to actively fight the instinct to not share information about processes that I know inside out and just say “I’ll do it myself,” not wanting to leave something for other people to figure out on their own, etc. I think it’s some insecurity thing like wanting to be the expert in everything and hoarding responsibility and knowledge. It’s such an unattractive trait and I wish I didn’t have the instinct.

    3. Argh!*

      In Myers-Briggs typology she is a -P and feels comfortable figuring things out as she goes. Unfortunately, she may not have insight on how different people are different. … or she could just be lazy.

      You might need to have a separate conversation about your learning style, making it about how she can help you rather than “grrrr why didn’t you tell me that!?!?!” moments.

      If she’s just lazy, you’ll have to get used to operating this way, being grrrr’d at, or just move along to a more functional situation.

      1. Josie*

        The typology actually makes sense with what I’ve seen. She likes doing things on the fly more than planning, and actually told me to stop being structured because “here we do things as they come”. Which doesn’t work well with some of more routine aspects of the job. The not having insight into how different people are different resonates as well, considering some comments she’s made – like not understanding why her depressed child couldn’t just get out of bed and get to school, after all she went to work even if she was tired (I’ve never wanted to kick a boss in the shin more than in that moment). Or when she told me I was so different from what she’d thought I’d be since I was nothing like her….

        I have figured out one strategy that seems to work on her: if there’s an event or thing I want to do, I plan and arrange everything before I tell her about it. She doesn’t have to do anything since I’m taking care of it all, while I get to do fun work stuff without her getting annoyed with me. It’s an odd situation for me, learning to work around a boss instead of with.

        Thanks for the help.

        1. Argh!*

          My old workplace had mandatory training in this kind of thing. In NewJob, NewBoss is completely clueless about diversity of viewpoint, or her own shortcomings. She’s been doing things her way for 25 years and really expects people to read her mind because the 15- and 20-year people she supervises always “get it.” She had no clue that she was being unfair comparing newbie me to those people who have figured her out.

          You could just come out and say you’re a J in Myers-Briggs and you need more direction (even if you’re not a J – everybody needs instructions!). If she has any intellectual pride she’d look it up and perhaps gain some insight.

          Good luck!

      2. Observer*

        She may be a -P or whatever. That does NOT explain her behavior.

        I’m someone who LOVES figuring stuff out on my own. It would nevertheless never occur to me that “I figured it out on my, so you should too” is an appropriate response to someone who is asking a question (outside of some very limited situations.) This goes triple for things that there really is no way to figure out on your own (eg what’s the password to system x), where there are specific and non-obvious procedures for things (eg you can only do process X on THIS computer) or when you are talking about what is in my head! Seriously, expecting someone to be a mind reader goes waaaay beyond expecting people to think for themselves and learn to do things on their own.

    4. Observer*

      I disagree that your boss is good at her job. A significant part of her job is MANAGING PEOPLE and she is doing a MISERABLE job at that.

      Refusing to give people the information they need to do their jobs, even in cases where there really is no way for you to “learn on your own'”- how do you figure out the password on your own, anyway – is a clear failure. Dumping on people because the of the problems she has had in the past is a clear failure. In my opinion, it’s a serious character flaw and it NOT something a “nice person” does. At best, it’s passive aggressive.

  146. Anonymous Pterodactyl*

    I have a question for people with some knowledge about unemployment law.

    I have a friend who is expecting some trouble with his job. The company he works for screwed up a major order for a client. They were contracted to provide all of the chocolate furnishings for a gingerbread house, the owners dropped the ball, and now are scrambling to get it done in time. He works in the vanilla furnishings department, and mentioned to me that a bunch of people in the chocolate department are quitting due to newly mandated overtime requirements – 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. There’s no issue with the owners actually *paying* that amount – he says they always pay reliably and are happy to pay for overtime worked – just with the hours themselves.

    His group mostly doesn’t work directly on this project, so they haven’t been ordered to work that kind of overtime… yet. He’s concerned that that might change, though, since it turns out they’ll need to make some pieces that go with the regular chocolate furnishings, and the owners are panicking pretty badly.

    If he’s instructed to work that kind of schedule… what are his options? If he says no, and they fire him, or if he quits, would he be eligible to claim unemployment benefits? I know an employer is allowed to require you to work overtime, but 16 hours a day with no days off, indefinitely, does not seem either reasonable or safe. Not when you’re working with chocolate power tools, open flames, and other heavy equipment. What threshold is there for what you’re expected to put up with in unreasonable scheduling?

    1. fposte*

      There’s not likely to be any federal law for this unless he’s in an industry like trucking with specific hourly restrictions. It’s the state that matters here; a few states do have limits on hours worked (one day in seven rules, that kind of thing), and it’ll absolutely depend on the state whether this is sufficient reason for quitting to retain eligibility for UI. I don’t think it would on most, but that’s the wildest of guesses.

      And from a federal standpoint, there really is no threshold.

      1. Observer*

        Actually, even without rules on work time, I think he would be eligible for UI – the change in schedule is so extreme that it could qualify as the boss essentially changing the job.

    2. LisaLee*

      FWIW, I think the company might drop that idea pretty quickly. That’s an INSANE amount of overtime for most industries and no one is going to be happy to work it even for considerable pay, unless it’s very temporary. It’s likely they’ll see enough pushback to drop it.

      1. Anonymous Pterodactyl*

        That was pretty much my reaction when he told me! There’s NO WAY most of their employees will put in that kind of time. And, as he told it, it wasn’t a temporary kind of change… it was a “everyone works this much until further notice” bombshell.

        We did the math, though, and anyone who did would get almost a month’s worth of pay every week they worked that much.

        He hasn’t heard yet whether he’ll be expected to work any major overtime, so afaik he’s still deciding whether he would do it for maybe a week for the extra income, tell them “no, that won’t be possible” and see if they’re willing to fire him, or just quit. He’s also actively job searching (of course).

  147. cornflower blue*

    In keeping with this week’s intern post, here are my greatest hits for this summer so far:

    –having to explain to an advertising intern why it’s not appropriate to request print-ready product photos by asking for “money shots”.

    –having to re-introduce a finance intern to the entire C-suite after she admitted to me (a month in) that everyone was calling her by the wrong name. She had started work the first day I came back after dental surgery, and apparently I was doing my best Eddie Vedder impersonation while introducing her the first time around.

    –having to send a female engineering intern to the nurse for treatment related to being gouged by her own underwire. She wanted to prove she could be “one of the guys” by joining in with overzealous bro-style chest bumping.

    1. Elizabeth H.*

      Ha! I admit that I feel like money shot is a little bit marginally acceptable and I might use it at work if it were a casual workplace. I think he was using the term a little bit wrong though, it should mean the photo or peak moment that is most compelling (like if you are advertising a sports drink, the money shot would be if the photographer caught a basketball player midair in a slam dunk or whatever; if it were paparazzi photos, the money shot would be the celebrity caught leaving the office of a divorce attorney or whatever), not just the shiny finished version of whatever.

        1. Artemesia*

          Its original meaning remains even when it has been appropriated by architects or whomever for other purposes. Not appropriate especially used by someone who doesn’t seem to know what even its clean meaning is much less its original meaning.

      3. Fictional Butt*

        I have heard “money shot” used in architecture to refer to a really compelling, “oooh I have to have this” rendering of a proposed design.

          1. fposte*

            I think it’s escaped from its origins. I was going to say “fluffing” has too and then I remembered Viagra put fluffers out of business. So sad when a profession disappears.

            1. Ramona Flowers*

              Just checking. In case someone unwittingly picks up the term from this thread without that context.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Oh no. . .I bet the guys were excited to have her join in the chest-bumping contest. Talk about not having any self-awareness.

      My department has one intern, and I haven’t worked with him until this week. He’s been okay to work with, but he did give a safety topic presentation at our department meeting this week, and he turned a 2 minute presentation into a 10 minute one. People audibly groaned when he flipped to his last slide. . .he had already addressed about five different topics, and any one of them would have been enough. he also concluded by saying that he probably didn’t teach us anything since he was still pretty much just a kid himself.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        With an intern I think you needed to look over the presentation before the meeting.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          You would think. He’s not my personal intern, and I was not in charge of the meeting presentations, so it was someone else’s fail.

      2. Snark*

        Yeah, it’s like…oh, honey, the boys didn’t want to bump chests with you to express solidarity.

    3. paul*

      Oh boy. Those at least are mostly fairly funny (I had no idea of the phrase money shot until recently myself).

  148. New Tech Manager*

    New manager here, I have a question.

    One of the three people who reports to me made a false discrimination complaint to HR about me. He’s a chronic underperformer and I’ve been giving him warnings to get himself together for a month now.

    I’ve been meaning to go to HR to set up a formal performance improvement plan for him, but I haven’t had the time. But HR called me first, to ask me if I’d ever said anything that could be considered antisemitic to him. I didn’t even know he was Jewish. Then they asked me to go through our most recent meetings and let me go.

    I’d like for him to get in trouble for lying about me, but that’s not gonna happen. And this may get in the way of giving him a review plan, because he’s shown himself to have a persecution complex and manipulate the system when he doesn’t get his way.

    So how can I protect myself?

    Current thoughts I have:

    – Refuusing to meet with him one on one. For performance reviews, I’ll request that my boss or HR is in the room with us.
    – Document all communication between us.

    3. CM*

      If your HR department is decent, then explain to them what you said here and forward any written warnings that you sent to your employee before he made the complaint. Ask them for advice about how you can address the performance issues in light of his complaint. They should be aware that this could be construed as retaliation, and can hopefully give you advice about how to handle the situation.

    4. Argh!*

      Have you had a performance review yet?

      He probably got away with underperforming in the past, so you may need to have a talk about standards under the new boss. You’re fortunate that there other people he can compare himself to (don’t do it for him!).

      And document everything, not just for him but for everyone. You may need to prove at some point that his performance really is poor compared to others. Without that documentation it will be harder to prove that he’s not being singled out for a justifiable reason.

    5. Eric*

      Not to be That Guy, but having a persecution complex is one of the stereotypes about Jewish people. You could’ve inadvertently said something that offended him.

      That doesn’t make you a bad person or a racist, but when you’re a manager you need to be careful how you speak with your reports. You can’t really address this with him now, but I’d suggest giving him a pass, depending on how egregious his behavior and performance have been so far. But yeah, absolutely do those two things you came up with. You want everything to be as clear cut as possible, and for everyone to know you’re doing what’s expected of a manager.

      Speaking of, what are you saying to him about his performance? It’s hard when you’re a new manager, but you need to remember to be as specific as possible. “I need you to get this done quicker” is a lot better than “you need to do better in general.” Even if he does need to do better in general, point out what he needs to do better at.

      Good luck!

    6. Observer*

      Yes to documentation and witnesses on performance reviews.

      Totally get rid of the idea of his getting punished for complaining. If you let that sit at the back of your head you will almost certainly wind up getting very close to illegal retaliation territory. Just don’t go there.

      You don’t know he was lying. And that fact that you didn’t know he is Jewish doesn’t mean that you never said anything that could be construed as antisemitic, although it would mean that you wouldn’t have been directing it at him, had that happened. I’m not saying that you deliberately said antisemitic things to him or around him, but it really IS possible that you said something that could be perceived that way, even by someone who is not paranoid.

      Lastly, make sure that you are treating his performance issues the same way you are treating other people’s performance issues. If you are not, it doesn’t really matter WHY – you are going to have a very hard time proving that it’s not related to his being Jewish.

  149. Sibley*

    Not sure if I need to be talked down, or encouraged, or what.
    Context: I’m an internal auditor, regularly meet with the audit team (consisting of lead, staff, manger, directors, and VP) for planning and reporting phases of the audit.

    Had a report meeting this morning. There were 2 audits that were very closely related, so everything had been done combined. So there’s 2 sets of audit staff + all the management up to VP at the meeting. We were not ready for this meeting, and both I and the other lead were well aware of it. This manager is overwhelmed (serious family illness, possibly terminal), and a lot of stuff isn’t getting done timely, or sometimes at all.

    So we enter the meeting with one black mark – we’re supposed to meet with the director before the VP, and we didn’t have that meeting, per instruction of the manager I’d canceled it (and said in the cancellation that it was due to mgr’s instruction).

    Black mark #2 – The manager hadn’t really reviewed the reports, so quickly went through them about 15 minutes before the meeting started and made changes. Incomplete changes as it turned out, and most of them were changed back.

    The whole meeting was awful. The reports were not at VP quality (because the mgr and director hadn’t reviewed). We still have some open questions on the actual audit!

    So we, the leads, came off looking bad. Really bad. I don’t know what to do. I’m starting to job search, it’s been casual but I think I’ll pick up the pace. I’m just fed up with this. I feel like going to the director (2 levels up) and telling him that we’d asked the mgr to reschedule because we knew it wasn’t ready, and we knew we hadn’t met with him yet. But it probably wouldn’t go over well.

    1. Foreign Octupus*

      This might be something you need to take on the chin.

      My initial thoughts are that by going directly to the director and explaining the situation will come off as passing the blame and that never makes anyone look good. The best thing you can do is try and sit down with your manager and explain that you are unhappy with how the presentation was handled and maybe storm ideas about how to avoid that in the future.

      In the meantime, keep job searching!

  150. Bored or Just Need a Break?*

    I’ve been struggling with how to phrase this, so apologies if this rambles:
    For the last few months, I’ve been having trouble with motivation. I’m a Type A, high achiever, love-to-cross-things-off-the-to-do-list kind of person. I’ve found the “Monday morning dread” sneaking up on me on Sunday nights, Sunday mornings, sometimes Saturday nights(!). Like this week, I literally did next to nothing on Monday and Tuesday — and found I just didn’t care. My coworkers are great people, the company treats me reasonably well, I have a few perks I enjoy (like weekly telework days), and in theory, I enjoy the work, but I think I’m bored. Or is this just a sign I need a week’s vacation desperately?

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      I’m suffering the same thing — some days I work for 15 minutes then toodle about for 15; it’s stupid and I’m annoyed with myself. I believe it’s a combination of some truly overwhelming events happening in life and the need for an actual true break/vacation (like turn off the phone, escape from reality and hide in the mountains).

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Why not start with the vacation and go from there? I’m kind of in the same boat– and I’m out next week without phone or laptop. Hoping it will give me a much-needed boost!

    4. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Yeah – Im in the same boat, only I suspect it may be boredom + lack of sleep lately (hot weather, cats wanting snuggles at 2.30 am, etc). I took a job last year that is beneath my skill set in an industry I would have never otherwise considered because I needed the money and was recovering from a significant medical episode, amongst other things. I dont fit in, the work isn’t stimulating, and I am just BORED. Spent most of the last month cruising the internet because my line manager sucks and can never keep anything straight/listen to me about my resourcing status.

      Ended up taking two days sick this week because I had a raging migraine and was so tired I couldn’t really function. I also found I didn’t care if I got work done or not because honestly it seems like none of it matters. I felt better by Friday at noon but now the thought of going in and having to motivate myself Monday is not what I want to think about right now.

      What I HAVE realized is that bulk of my problem is that I am motivated by results and “the new” and I am not getting that at all with this job. So its my task to create that at home working on my own projects, get some new skills, and start looking for a new role in the new year. I WAS able to talk myself into/work my network to get on a significant/high visibility project at work that is completely unrelated to what we do, so that is starting to kick off and should help. I also have been trying to take action in other ways so I can get myself out of this rut – signed up for the gym I have been meaning to join for the last 5 months. I can be desk to pool in under 15 minutes, so it gives me somewhere to go and something to do (and help get this weight off from the medical situation) over lunch “hour” instead of staring at the computer some more.

      See if a vacation helps, but look into “bore-out”.

  151. Victoria, Please*

    This is an email that I just sent to my team:

    “Believe it or not, it’s been 11 months since the last kitchen deep clean! Could I get a volunteer to coordinate the effort for some time next week? This person does NOT DO the entire cleaning, but divvies up jobs. PollyAnna did it last time and MaryLouWho the time before that. If we need to put it on staff meeting agenda, we will.

    “I do want to say, thanks to everyone for the constant small effort and attention that keeps the kitchen decent so that we only HAVE to do a deep clean annually! Some offices have to do a big clean every week or so because people are slobs and it becomes a huge source of contention, so I really appreciate everyone’s awesomeness in this area.”

    We had another female team member step up (we have 5 women, 4 men, plus me), so next time maybe I will give a little nudge for someone on the Y side to do this, what do you think? Also I always volunteer for the fridge, which is the worst job IMO.

    1. Diluted_Tortoise_Shell*

      I think you should just set up a rotation since you are expecting folks to rotate through this responsibility. Otherwise it may end up that only a few people do the work.

      2. Victoria, Please*

        A formal rotation for a task that happens once, *maybe* twice, a year? That seems overkill to me. And I guess I should admit that I shared this mostly for comic value and the fact that my team IS really terrific and this is just one small way. I actually have no problem saying “Hey, Apollo, Zeus, Hermes, and Frank, could one of you step up this time?”

    2. Elizabeth H.*

      Agree, if it’s a responsibility that you are in charge of ensuring gets done and everyone is supposed to participate, there is no reason at all not to set up a specific rotation. There is no person who actually WANTS to coordinate the deep clean or clean the fridge (I mean, ideally we find it rewarding to participate in a collective effort that everyone can appreciate, but even assuming that I don’t think anyone would do it just for fun) so what’s the point in asking for volunteers – it can happen, but it’s not always efficient or plausible that people will spontaneously volunteer in a perfect distribution of tasks. People can always trade with each other if one person hates fridges but doesn’t mind cleaning out the coffee maker and vice versa.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Referencing earlier posts… if you want people to wear 37 pieces of flair, tell them to wear 37 pieces of flair. If you want everyone to take a turn at this task, assign it to them.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      I know I say it every time this comes up, and I know people always say some offices can’t afford it, etc., but why can’t the office set aside a couple hundred dollars to have a company come in and clean this once a year?

      We had an employee with MRSA a few weeks ago, and they hired a company to come do some kind of haz mat disinfect on our entire floor. I can’t even imagine what that cost.

      1. Victoria, Please*

        I actually am considering requesting a deep clean for our entire office suite because the cobwebs have gotten a little crazy especially since we’re on the outside wall of a not very tightly sealed building.

        I would NOT be happy with a team member who said, “I’m not paid to do XXX that supports the comfort and well being of everyone on the team.” I greatly value the willingness to do whatever job comes along, and it’s MY job as the manager to make sure that I am not wasting our resources by allowing more than the rare occasion when a Highly Skilled and Paid Person is doing something that Entry Level Person could do.

    5. Snark*

      I think you need to get into the habit of voluntelling people for this. “Fridge is super-grody, you guys. We’re going to a monthly cleaning schedule. Fergus, you’re up for this month. Cleaning schedules will be posted on the fridge, please have it done sometime in the last business day of each month.”

      Expecting people to volunteer, particularly if you have druthers about the genders involved, is going to be unproductive. Nobody wants to do this.

  152. NeedSugestions*

    I have an employee who has PTSD from something that happened to him previously. Recently, his mother passed. And since then his work has been inconsistent. I’d like to coach him on his work performance, but I want to make sure I am being empathetic and not triggering anything, in what is already a delicate situation. Any suggestions on where I might find some advice on how best to move forward?

      1. NeedSugestions*

        He is in therapy and I know he has that support. I just want to make sure I’m not doing anything that could trigger anything.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Talk to him about support that might help at work e.g. different hours, a different workspace, more written instructions, stuff like that – I mean practical support not emotional. For the latter, +1 to the EAP suggestion.

  153. DietCokeHead*

    I wish I could go tell my manager that I never would have accepted this job had I known that regular front desk coverage would be required. But I’m sure that this falls into the other duties as assigned and I would considered a non-team-player if I voiced any type of preference.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      “Regular” and “other duties as assigned” should not both be used to describe the same task. Sounds like a bait-and-switch to me, and I’d be inclined to mention that you didn’t have any reason to expect this aspect of the job, and would like to know if it could be reduced or eliminated.

      1. DietCokeHead*

        Thanks for the feedback. The setup here is that the front desk receptionist position is under HR. The HR admin, who is the main backup when the receptionist is out, and myself (the LMS admin) are the only two other hourly members of the HR team. So when the receptionist is out, the hr admin does the bulk of the coverage. I cover the lunches and breaks along with rotating other staff members. For some reason, I haven’t been rotated out of the coverage for 2 years. I’ve heard through the grapevine that only hourly employees can cover the front desk and that HR must provide coverage. So I think that’s why I’m stuck and also my manager is not the most reasonable at times so I don’t feel comfortable bringing it up.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      Sadly, I don’t think you can tell your manager that. What you maybe able to do is try to see if you can work out a schedule for coverage that is least offensive to you. And then think you are going to have to decide if you can live with the job if it doesn’t change.

      1. DietCokeHead*

        No, I don’t think I can do that either. It is frustrating to be the only member of the front desk backup team who hasn’t been rotated out of coverage in two plus years and it is also frustrating not to feel allowed to take popular days off like Fridays in the summer or days around the holidays due to the receptionist or HR admin already having off. I actually found a job posting to apply to over the weekend. The front desk coverage is definitely one of the reasons I want to move on.

  154. Trial By Marketing*

    Yay, I have a job offer….. sort of!

    I just got offered my dream position at a (very) small marketing agency. The problem is, they want to do a 30 day trial. I know that 90 day trial periods are standard in most jobs, but this 30 day trial is more like “we’ll hire you on contract and see how it goes”. I’ve been casually job searching with no luck for about 6 months, so if it ended up not working out I’m very uncertain of how long it would take me to find a new job. I’m currently employed at a job from hell so while I’m desperate to get out of here, I’m terrified of ending up jobless.

    I’m thinking about contacting the person who reached out to me and asking how the trial period would be evaluated, or basically what I need to do to make sure the trial period goes well and I’m hired. This is a brand new position, so I need to make sure that it’s a “we want to make sure you don’t suck” trial and not a “we want to make sure we want to hire someone” trial. I know I’m good at my job and this position seems like the perfect fit, but it seems like a big risk. I’ve also thought about asking if I could do it part time. I would be able to make my own hours anyway, so I’m wondering if they would be open to me keeping my full time job during the trial.

    Does anyone have any advice on or experience with trial periods like this??

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Honestly, I think this sounds awful, but I don’t know anything about marketing. You might phrase it as “Since you’re only hiring me on a trial basis, I’m sure you’ll understand that I can’t leave my current job until you’re actually ready to hire me permanently.” Any way you could take a vacation at your current job to coincide with this 30 day trial?

    2. Pineapple Incident*

      Are they calling this a “trial” or “probation period”? Because honestly, it sounds like they want to be able to get rid of you easily and might not want to commit to hiring someone. I know you’re trying to do due diligence and are currently in hell, but I’d say keep looking.

      Props to you for trying to get out of your current situation- good luck! I hope it works out :)

    3. Manders*

      Ugh, I was offered that once at a marketing agency and turned it down. It was a weird situation where they clearly expected me to act like an employee, but would illegally pay me as a contractor. I would have had to pay taxes as a contractor for the first 3 “trial” months. I turned it down. It wasn’t my dream position and the company had horrible Glassdoor reviews, so I didn’t feel that torn about it. I might have gone for it, dubious legality and all, if it was a position I desperately wanted.

      I have had jobs with 1-3 month probationary periods before I had access to health insurance or certain benefits, and that’s fine, so long as they’re legally treating me as an employee. I just moved into my first job with no probationary period, so I think those may get less common as I move up the ladder.

      1. Is it Friday Yet?*

        In my experience small marketing agencies typically don’t have a lot of money, so when they want to hire someone new, it’s usually based on getting a new client or new business. I’ve seen that fall through more times than not.

  156. Pineapple Incident*

    I’m exhausted with someone at work. I really love my job most of the time, but there is one person who prepares work that I then have to review and pass on to someone higher up; this person drives me crazy. She routinely ignores policy and required documentation, and will often spout “I don’t know what else you want me to do with this,” “I’ve never been asked to do this before,” (when it’s definitely standard practice) and “We’ve been doing it this way since WAY before YOU got here.”

    I’ve started to get more firm that I won’t do her work before passing this on, and have emailed her (cc’ing the person who this work product has to get to after my changes) asking for very specific changes on each of the records I’ve received from her in the last 2 weeks. I’ve done this nicely, but I’m so at the end of my rope. She’s just emailed me back about something that she’s refusing to correct despite having all of the information I need from her, and has said that she’ll wait for the person above us to be back in the office on Monday to ask about this further. It’s so hard to believe that she’d rather wait several days to be told directly that these changes need to be made than do what I’ve asked her for repeatedly.

    WHY ARE PEOPLE LIKE THIS????

    1. Argh!*

      Document what the standard practice is and send that to her outside of specific instances.

      I’m the person who drives my boss crazy because she expects me to just know “standard” things that are only standard here. In my previous jobs they weren’t. She always finds something wrong with everything and when I ask for instructions she’s very vague. She’s just a nit-picker.

      If your standards and practices are clear-cut it shouldn’t be a problem to type it up, or even turn it into a checklist for both of you to use.

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        The sad thing here is that I’m talking about government policies she has just been allowed not to follow in the past, or just hasn’t been caught for violating. She’s been here forever, and has been in refresher courses where all people at her level and mine were informed that our auditors are becoming more strict about these policies than ever.

        All of the resources for policy are at her fingertips and she’s more than welcome to ask me questions (I’ve also said that in my many emails) but instead of bringing her issues up with me she sends crappy records and just expects I’ll fix them, and won’t give me the information I need until I’ve asked her several times.

        1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

          Can you go to this person’s manager and say “This isn’t working. What can we do to fix it?” Her manager should be made aware of this since you aren’t getting anywhere by talking to her directly.

    2. Artemesia*

      Assemble the documentation and then sit down with your boss and discuss how s/he wants you to handle this. ‘yadda yadda I feel that she does sloppy work and then expects me to redo her work; if we work that way the process is slow and she does increasingly incomplete work. I have been sending it back for her to correct the errors and then she refuses to make the corrections and wants to wait until Fergus is back. Fergus of course directs her to complete. This is a really frustrating situation and it is preventing us from getting the work done competently and efficiently. How should we handle this?’

      She should be fired. This is your best shot at it.

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        This is actually my plan, but unfortunately she’s in a management position and she’s a permanent government employee (I’m a contractor). She’s not going anywhere- my best outcome is likely that we get a better workaround. Worst case scenario nothing changes and we continue to get crappy work from her, I waste more of my time on her stuff than I do on anything else I do, and she treats me with the same general contempt I’ve seen here and there so far.

        1. Observer*

          It’s hard to fire “permanent” employees, but it’s NOT impossible.

          Your goals shouldn’t be to get her fired, though (even though it sounds like it’s deserved.) Your goal should be to get the work done the way it needs to be done. And, if you are going to be expected to fix her problems, that needs to be factored into how logs it’ supposed to take you to do stuff.

          And, document your head off. Make sure your boss has all of this on a regular basis, and figure out who else should see it. People may very well figure that it’s hard to get her to comply, so just let you (or whoever is in your position) fix it. No big deal and it doesn’t cost much, right? If you start documenting what it’s actually costing in time, money as risk to the agency, it might make people take a different attitude.

          1. Pineapple Incident*

            Sooooo late to the party, but I really appreciate this additive. We are supposed to keep a log of everything we do at my level for our core performance metrics, and there are comment areas for each record of a specific type- in April I started taking long-form notes on everything I have to ask her for, and keep all of my emails from her with a certain tag in a folder for her branch.

  157. LurkerBerserker*

    A little venting session to something that’s been brewing:

    Why is it so hard to find a job where you do some good?

    I’m a couple years out of undergrad now. I was lucky enough to get some rock-solid internships while in school and they helped me immediately land my current gig doing science in the public sector. Said gig has an expiration date, though, and it’s coming up. Knowing that, I’ve been looking for jobs for a little less than a year now. My academics were top-notch, and my work here has been well beyond the expectations they had for me. The problem?
    I want to do some good in the world.
    I put in a lot of extra effort to make Current Job check that box; nobody would have batted an eye if I just stuck to data entry (not to disparage the good people doing accurate data entry; you’re heroic in your own right). Yes, it’s a luxury to think of a job as more than a vehicle for getting paid, but I’m as flexible now as I’ll ever be in my life. I’m comfortable with taking a pay cut; if I wanted to get rich I could have gone down a different career path than “research for marginalized groups.” I’m comfortable switching gears from my current path. And I’m comfortable doing work that isn’t exactly glamorous if I feel like it’s helping to fulfill a good mission.
    My experiences (work and volunteer) have made me pretty disillusioned with a lot of “do-good” jobs. Too many nonprofits are either dysfunctional or only functional at fundraising. The rare private sector gig with a public interest angle is often just PR for some nefarious company that does orders of magnitude more damage than their “color our products green” team could possibly dent. And the government… well, I’ll leave my politics out of it, but I’m very unhappy with how the goals of my current (public) org are appearing to shift.
    On top of that, even when I *do* apply to these types of jobs, there’s obviously a huge glut of people who are of the same mind. I’ll read requirements asking for 1-2 years of experience in [field] and a range of skills that I’ve managed to pick up (again, super-lucky that I even have in-field experience compared to other recent graduates). No phone call, no interview– must need to take another whack at the ol’ resume/cover letter. But then after some snooping I find that the position got filled by some PhD with 8 years of experience or something. No way I was ever competing with that. I’d be happy to start small at some organization and work my way into more responsibility, but if *that’s* what it takes to start small, I just don’t see a way.

    Anyways. Like I said, just a little vent as the job hunt continues to crawl along. Cheers.

    1. Manders*

      Bummer, I typed out a long comment and then the page froze. I was in the same spot a few years ago, and part of what was holding me back was I had come out of school with a very specific model of “doing good” that almost always required people to be independently wealthy in order to pursue careers that paid low wages or no wages at all while you paid your dues.

      I ended up working for for-profits and decided to use my hobby time to create things other people will enjoy. My husband struggled with the same thing after getting disillusioned with academia, and ended up in a teaching position he loves where he can do good in individual students’ lives. I do have a few friends who stuck with public service, but I also know many people who do good without devoting their careers to nonprofit and government jobs.

      1. LurkerBerserker*

        Ah, I would have liked to have seen the long version! My distrust of commenting systems (see: Lurker) makes me write my responses out in a different program and copy-paste.

        I agree, “doing good” in that sense is definitely a luxury. Financially, I feel like it’s one I could afford right now, but I don’t see even the *underpaid* opportunities to make a real difference. As you’ve done, I’ve been scratching that itch with non-professional routes. Work doesn’t define you, after all. (But if I’d known my job wouldn’t matter either way besides in the amount of “hobby time” it got me, maybe I’d have gone into something more lucrative, ha.)

        Seconded to your husband’s distaste for academia. I’m concerned about returning for an advanced degree, then graduating, and finding myself with the same problem.

        I’m ultimately more hopeful than all this sounds– just hitting a bit of a cynical patch. I’ve been returning to things like creative writing, though, which I don’t get to do much at work.
        What kind of things that people enjoy did you end up creating?

        1. Manders*

          I’m also a creative writer! My favorite genre to write is pulpy SFF, minus all the racism, sexism, and homophobia of the classics. I put my work up for free on my blog, and although I don’t have a huge readership right now, it’s growing.

          Something I wish I’d gotten on top of earlier is finding a supportive community of writers. I came out of a program in college that wrecked the self-esteem of a lot of young writers, and it took me 5 years just to start showing people my work again. It can be an isolating hobby and there may be a lot of years when it feels like a grind with no end in sight.

    2. Overeducated*

      I sympathize and I’ve finally reached the point in my life when I have to choose money over mission. No advice, just saying I get it.

  158. NaoNao*

    When does a more than one page resume make sense? (Outside of academia).
    I’m currently in the high five figures in my industry and it’s one that, while we have some hard #’s to show for our work, it’s more project based with very long projects. So right now I have a one pager that’s a quick look—my jobs in the last 7 years with a summary of the work I do for each, and my education on one page.
    Then I have two pages with more detailed accomplishments, and a section (that is not a page by itself) on publications, awards and honors (that are related to my work).
    I’d like to move into the six figure world and I feel that a longer, detailed resume (I could combine the two main parts, but that would take me down to about two pages) is in order here. I want to show potential employees that I have made pretty significant contributions in the field at my jobs and that a six figure price tag would be worth it.
    Thoughts?

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      I think once you have some professional experience under your belt, than 2 pages is okay. Beyond 2 pages, I think is almost impossible to justify.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Two pages is totally fine. I’ve been using two pages for years now. I had one page back in my early 20s, when I just hadn’t had that many jobs yet.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      I’ve been part of a team interviewing for a $130-150k position for the last 6 months. We’ve seen everything from a 2 page resume from a 30-year guy to one with a 10 page appendix detailing every project the guy had ever been involved with. I will never, ever read your 10-page appendix. Focus on communicating in a couple pages your Most Important Accomplishments and experience that translates most directly to the job your applying for. I get 4 page resumes, and I still can’t decipher if the person has actually led a team of engineers doing design work in their 20 year history as an engineer and manager. (They use vague things like “coordinated a project with a a team of 40 engineers”).

    5. H.C.*

      Another +1 for two pages is OK; longer is almost definitely not (and if anything, suggests you’re unable to focus/customize your resume to fit what the employer is looking for.)

    1. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Nope, not in the slightest. He has proven himself to have serious issues with the truth.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Yes I do. My manager and grandboss are kind people who haven’t given me any reason not to. And I’ve had some lousy bosses in the past.

    3. LCL*

      I have been specifically told not to, by someone who worked with my boss previously. I am struggling to maintain an open mind.

    5. Is it Friday Yet?*

      Nope. Mine was disbarred. Lies all the time. Even asks other people (myself included) to lie for him. Cheats on his wife.

    8. Amber Rose*

      Yes. He’s done well by me, even with my inexperienced and awkward fumbling. He’s not perfect, but I know his quirks and I know he’s an intelligent, fair and basically kind person.

    9. rageismycaffeine*

      I used to trust him 100%. Lately he has been acting kind of weird, distant, vague, other off-putting things. So now I am more guarded around him in return. Which is unfortunate because until this he’s been really fantastic.

    10. Sandra wishes you a heavenly day*

      Not completely, but that’s 100% my previous bad bosses and nothing he’s done.

    12. Buu*

      No, boss has lied on multiple occasions and has no self awareness about it. Once or twice we had confidential meetings about current projects etc with the promise that what I said wouldn’t be shared…and then he loudly stated what I said in the middle of our open plan office ¬___¬ luckily I think grand boss agreed with me and ever since then I think he’s been aware of my bosses lies. It’s if Grand Grand boss will act on them now I think.

      1. JaneB*

        Nope. I trust that he believes what he says when he says it, but he doesn’t always remember what he said, won’t put things in writing, is inconsistent….

        He also has “keep the next level admin happy” rather than “serve our clients” as his top priority as judged by his actions, and he’s one of those people who has trouble grasping that anyone could NOT think/feel/react to things exactly as he does, so I don’t trust him to understand/hear what I’m saying clearly either

        It’s not easy!

    13. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Not really – she forgets what she has said and changes her mind all the time, and also has a condescending tone. Its very frustrating to deal with on a people management basis, but I don’t report project work to her (most of the time). I can’t trust that she will go into the management meeting and pitch for me (which is what they are supposed to do) work that is interesting/development based because she can’t remember and gets distracted by shiny object syndrome. Or just signs me up for shit I don’t want to do and informs me later, usually after I have told her I DONT want to do something and the specific reasons why not.

      I trust her far less than my last boss, who was a petulant, whiny, heavy drinker, straight asshole to people he didn’t like. He was also very smart, knew the business, and would lay down and die for you if you were on his good list. Which I was. Just sent him a thank you note last week for going to bat for me in a big way AFTER I HAD LEFT to get the bonus I was due. He said 10 months ago he would do it and he did.

    14. Purple snowdrop*

      Yes. She’s not someone I’d be friends with out of work, but despite a bumpy start, I know she’s got my back.

  160. ConfusedAcademic*

    Long-time reader, first comment. Need some advice, please! I am in academia and I go up for tenure this fall. I have a pretty strong case, but I do not know if I have the support of my director, Fergus. He is non-communicative, non-appreciative; we have a personality conflict and haven’t gotten along in the 5 years I’ve been there. I have also disagreed with him on occasion (always politely), which I have learned he really dislikes. The tension between us is mostly personality-driven (I can’t point to a specific act that he’s done that is “wrong”). My last formal review was last year, and Fergus’s official letter from that review is, well, lukewarm. Fergus’s perspective will weigh heavily in the decision of whether I get tenure.

    I have gotten advice from senior colleagues in a sister department that I should talk to Fergus’s boss, the Dean (call her Jane). These senior colleagues say I should tell Jane that I don’t think I will get a fair shake from Fergus when it comes to my review. In the past, Jane has expressed support for Fergus because Fergus puts out fires pretty well; Jane doesn’t like having to deal with conflict. If Fergus gave me a bad review, it would definitely be a fire, so I can see Jane wanting to avoid that. Also, Jane and I have a friendly relationship (saying hi in the corridors) but aren’t close; I do think Jane would be receptive to hearing about problems.

    What do you think? Should I take these concerns to Jane? How should I phrase this? Is there another way to document/address my concerns? Thanks for any help!

    1. Dankar*

      I would be hesitant to bring concerns up to the Dean, but that’s because the last department I worked in (as a TA, not TT professor) had a really dysfunctional one. I’m sure that colors my experience in a way that’s not helpful to you.

      For some perspective, I’ve known two professors who didn’t get tenure when they applied. One had serious professional issues (watching game shows in his office all day, berating the student employees until they cried, etc.) and the other was largely thought to have been denied due to conflicts with other professors in the department. It seems to me that when there’s a conflict of personalities, the entire department’s feeling on the issue is more critical than a single director’s.

      Good luck with your application for tenure!

      1. fposte*

        Tenure granting is really institution-dependent; some places it’s nearly a formality, and some places really do shed people. I think the trend is moving more toward the first but I bet the second is still out there.

        I think meeting with the Dean is a plausibility, but I wouldn’t necessarily do it to raise concerns about Fergus; I’d meet about your performance following your review, state what you’ve put in place to address the concerns in the review, and ask her whether you think there are other things you should be doing. It’s a little on the late side, so keep that in mind on the timing and judge accordingly, but I think it could still fly.

        And you talk about senior colleagues in a sister department–do you have relationships with other senior colleagues in your own department? Is there somebody who can be your unofficial tenure mentor and thus be on your side? That might be tougher in a rigidly hierarchical department, but in mine it wouldn’t be that big of a deal to want some advice from somebody else.

        Good luck either way, and report back.

  161. AnotherLibrarian*

    A question for fellow librarians: Recently, I was asked by a former student of mine for advice on writing a “Statement of Philosophy of Librarianship” for a job. I’ve never been asked to write such a thing before, nor have I ever worked at a place that asked for them.

    So, for the other librarians around- does your institution require these? What would be included? And how to you judge them?

    Any other advice about these would be appreciated.

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      I’ve never heard of this, either, and the only way I can think of for your former student to approach the writing of this document is to (1) look at the job description (research/reference? cataloguing? automation? digital? etc.) and if it’s clear from that what area the job’s duties fall into, then (2) go to the ALA website and look at the Code of Ethics there http://www.ala.org/tools/ethics. (If it’s a Comparing the responsibilities and duties in the job description with the ethics statements might help prompt your former student to think about how one’s ethical obligations inform his/her operating philosophy to the job being applied for. Hope this helps.

    2. Unintentionally Snarky*

      I’m not a librarian, but I was curious so I googled “Philosophy of Librarianship” and apparently such statements are a thing. I see them listed by libraries, library schools, and by individual librarians (mostly recent grads) on their resumes and CVs as they look for jobs.

      They all seem to be variations of ALA boilerplate about providing access to information and the importance of freedom to information (which is of course a good thing, but which I would think would be obvious and self-evident).

    3. Sparkly Librarian*

      I had to develop one for the written portfolio I had to produce in order to graduate with my MLIS. I don’t recall the text offhand, but it had to do with being more than just a gatekeeper of information; enabling patrons to learn methods of seeking information for themselves. (Very similar to my customer service philosophy from the previous decade of my work.) The shorthand was, “I’m f*ckin’ Martin Luther!”

  162. Is it Friday Yet?*

    About 2 months ago, my small company hired someone new for an admin role. We’re a small office (only about 15 people), so there are a lot of quirks, and frankly the owner is kind of a nut job. It takes some getting used to. So the new person who we’ll call Jenna has been gone a lot in her first two months. We have no official time off policy, but there hasn’t been a week where she’s worked a full day. Our office has a propensity to gossip, so myself and another co-worker asked one of the managers what was going on with Jenna. He said she was gone a lot because she’s interviewing to become a citizen of the U.S.

    That makes sense. I’ve never had to do anything like that, but I could see how it would be very time consuming. So she was gone yesterday but was supposed to be in today. At around 10:30am, a sales team member receives a call from her husband saying she won’t be in today or next week. She had an “urgent” matter in Canada and does not have access to a computer.

    Let’s just say the rumor mill today has been wild. Has anything like this ever happened to you? I can’t ever imagine a situation in which it would be appropriate to have your spouse call your work unless you were in a coma or jail.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      We have no official time off policy, but there hasn’t been a week where she’s worked a full day.

      Wait. What? She’s worked less than a full day *every day* for her first two months of employment?

      1. Snark*

        No, it sounds like every week, there’s been a day when she’s worked a partial day or been out.

    2. Temperance*

      Um, I’ve done citizenship cases. I’m not sure why a citizenship interview, which is a ONE TIME thing, would take multiple days over the course of a few weeks.

      1. Observer*

        Yeah. Relative of naturalized US citizens – something about this story doesn’t add up.

  163. Dankar*

    I know this is a bit specialized for AAM, but I thought it can’t hurt to ask.

    I’m looking into picking up some courses as an English adjunct at some of the local universities. I already have a full-time job, so it would be maybe one course per semester after regular business hours. I know that’s pretty specific, so I’m fine if it takes a while to find a university or CC with that kind of opening. I’ve put in my CV and other materials to the open pools (the ones with no end date on the job posting) and now I’m waiting.

    All the advice I’m seeing recommends emailing the department chair to restate my interest in the position, preferably close to the start date of the Fall semester in hopes that they’ll pull my materials and give me a section. Literally–every post I’m seeing online suggests this approach. It just feels too much like cold-calling (not to mention warning-levels of gumption), though, and I’m very hesitant to reach out as I’m afraid of irritating the department.

    Are there any adjuncts here? Has this approach worked for you or did you do something else?

    1. Simone R*

      I don’t have experience with this so not sure how helpful this is, but I will say that important professors tend to get an obscene amount of emails (although this may be different at a CC vs my experience with large research universities) and so it seems highly unlikely that your email will be noticed or make much of a difference.

    2. over educated*

      I’m not an adjunct but I have a lot of friends and family who are. You can occasionally find something by applying to listings, but the majority of people I know do get classes through cold emailing, including to departments that haven’t posted vacancies at all. (One of my friends actually just got a tenure track job that way, since it turned out they were getting ready to advertise it but hadn’t yet, but that’s very rare.) A lot of vacancies are filled informally on timelines that are too short to go through the full process of advertising. In the worst case they just won’t reply.

    3. An Inspector of Gadgets*

      I don’t know about adjuncts but this was absolutely the only way to get hired as a TA in a certain popular department at my university. I spent three semesters of grad school racking up loans and hoping my earnest applications would be enough to get me an interview for the position…then one semester I bit the bullet and emailed someone and that was the foot-in-the-door to TA in that department for a total of four semesters by the time I was done with grad school. If there’s a glut of applications, that “gumption” might really make a difference (now whether or not this is a fair and equitable approach to hiring is an entirely different question…I still feel guilty for having gotten hired in that way, and at the same time resentful that people who knew the trick were able to avoid 10s of $1000s in debt with a well-placed email (and obviously doing the job once hired, but there were probably hundreds of grad students qualified to teach in that department at any given time and only 1-2 dozen slots).

      1. Dankar*

        You know, now that I think about it, that was how I got my interview to TA. It wasn’t cold-emailing per se, since I had previously worked with the professor, but that does help me reframe it in my mind… Guess I’ll be sending out some emails on Monday.

        Thanks, guys!

    4. Artemesia*

      Adjunt hiring is by networking. These are not advertised jobs and are temporary and sporadic. You need to get to know whomever is doing the hiring. Sending a resume/CV and cover to a department chair who would hand it off to whomever handles adjuncts MIGHT work especially if they have a special need for your expertise. If I did that, I would review their catalog and then schedule to identify courses they actually teach and particularly ones that seem to be taught by a variety of people. That way you can indicate examples of course you might cover. (This is delicate because there is course ownership and you don’t want to step on toes)

      But your best bet is to get to know the decision maker in the department and touch base then with them. If you know anyone on the faculty see if s/he can introduce you and your interests. Sometimes departments are desperate for adjuncts and other times have such a consistent stable that it is hard to break in.

  164. Ramona Flowers*

    Following on from the post about what flies in your field that would shock others… what’s NOT okay in your field that might surprise others, is acceptable elsewhere, etc?

    I work for a non-profit in an area related to mental health and social care.

    In my field, it

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      In my field people hit send buttons too quickly.

      What I was going to say is…

      We don’t refuse to communicate with people who swear or are rude. We will gently empathise with the fact that they seem distressed and offer support. And we don’t discuss people who use our services at the dinner table or with friends – that is a massive no no.

    2. Essie*

      I work in industrial and commercial photography. Conventional photo processing teaches you “lossless” editing: make layer masks to hide the background info you don’t want, but NEVER EVER delete it in case you change your mind or need it later.

      In my niche, I’m often taking photos of products in environments like R&D labs. These areas are full of objects that cannot be seen by competitors or by the general public. Lossy editing by actually deleting pixels is an absolute must to ensure that all background information stays secret from anyone who might access the photos.

      1. Artemesia*

        That is really interesting since all the complex editing tools are precisely designed to do the opposite — what software do you use for lossy editing?

  165. Fake old Converse shoes*

    Hi everyone! I’m facing a weird situation, and I everyone’s input would be great.
    Last April I was assigned to a new client, to salvage a project that was grossly behind schedule. We are five people, working between the Graphic Design team and Social Media team. Everybody is nice with everybody, they eat together, have lunch outside from time to time, they’re the best team ever… as long you’re not a contractor, because they ignore them completely.
    They skip our table every time they can, whether is when they say hello to their buddies, handing out free candy/popcorn/birthday cake, lost & found items… everything. On the few occasions there was an office tour, the person in charge omitted us, and if someone asked explicitly she would say ‘I have no idea what they do, the’re not one of us’. The same person who does the tours went as far as eating some tomatoes I had left in the fridge, and when I confronted her she said ‘I asked everyone and nobody claimed them’, to what I replied ‘Well, you didn’t ask me’. Other employees think I am part of the cleaning staff, and a couple times left their dirty dishes next to me when I was washing the stuff I use. Right now someone came back from travelling with chocolates and bonbons and is offering them table by table… but not to us.
    The employees we work with on a daily basis try their best to make us feel welcome, but the majority of the office send a clear “you don’t belong here” message, which is definitely not cool in a professional setting. The easy solution is to ignore them and only talk with the ones I need to talk, but I fear one of these days I’m going to lose my cool and say something rude that would ruin my reputation there (especially to the ones that think my job is cleaning dishes, why, why, why?).
    Is there anything else I can do or it’s a lost cause?

    1. KR*

      Can you talk to whoever is overseeing your work and mention the disconnect? They may be in more of a position to talk to those employees. Even a general email, “For those who don’t know, Fake Old Converse Shoes and her team are working on finishing up our Teapot Marketing Campaign. They are going to be working in our office for the foreseeable future. Please do your best to make them feel welcome.” might clear things up.

    2. Colette*

      I think some of this is normal – someone bringing back a treat from a trip is absolutely allowed to share it with people they choose to share it with, for example. And some level of separation is often required between employees and contractors (by companies who don’t want you to be able to sue for benefits since you were treated like an employee).

      But things like eating your food is not ok, and you’re absolutely fine to call that out.

      And for things like the dishes, you can smile and say “I’ll be out of your way in a second”.

      But ultimately, if you are treated well by the people you work with, you may have to let being ignored by people you don’t work with go, or start introducing yourself and making the first contact.

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      The co-workers who ignore you are idiots. Having written that, however, I will acknowledge that if not all of them report to the same supervisor, it is *possible* that one of those supervisors gave them some kind of vague instruction about not getting too friendly (for whatever reason), and this is how they’re interpreting it. But, yeah, if you can let it slide off your back by realizing you’re dealing with a host of people with a terribly narrow focus, and if you can force yourself to care less about this behavior, you’ll probably feel better in the long run. I’m really sorry you’re having to put up with this. They’re being childish, petty, thoughtless, and mean-spirited.

    4. Chaordic One*

      This just seems totally bizarre to me. While I’ve never worked as a contractor, I have worked as a temp (including several long-term assignments) and I guess I’ve been very lucky. The permanent employees who were my coworkers always made me feel welcome and included. They seemed happy to have someone (me) help them catch up on their work or fill-in for someone who was out of the office for whatever reason.

    5. Artemesia*

      Whoever hired your team should have introduced you to the office and welcomed you publicly. So yeah this is bizarro. Everyone should know what your team is doing and that it is valued.

      For someone to return with goodies and pointedly ignore one group in the open plan office is nasty stuff. It is just not true that someone returning from a trip with goodies ‘has the perfect right to share only with whomever they choose’. You bring cookies to most, you include all. They should have learned that in second grade on Valentine’s day.

      I don’t know if I would try to fix this or just be amused by it. But if you want it to change you need to talk with the boss you report to and ask him to clarify the team’s role, the excuse being ‘there seems to be some confusion about our colleagues who are working to rescue the Screwloose project.’

  166. Spinning Cogwheels*

    For all the supportive and encouraging mental health-related discussion in online communities like this, it is tiring navigating the physical world around people who politely hide their real feelings about mental health issues. Knowing that around half of the people I interact with on a daily basis don’t believe my condition is real, trying to make accommodations normally means using coded language like “being too busy” or “tired.”

    I wish I could easily break down the difference. When I’m asked to attend an impromptu meeting on a day I work from home, it is not “go to meeting place,” one thing to do. It is ten things to do, at least. It is-

    – Shower (and associated hangups)
    – Eat something
    (Meticulously clean up and gaze around kitchen in wide-eyed paranoia that I do not attract anything crawling before, during, or after the preparation of eating something)
    – Put on clothing appropriate for weather and walk to meeting place
    – Pack clothing appropriate for indoor climate and professional norms of meeting place
    (Realize I need to do laundry, find something to wear appropriate for outdoor weather but innocuous enough to avoid harassment from college boy neighbors while doing laundry, shower again after sweating while doing laundry, put on original clothing again)
    – Leave an hour early for the half-hour walk to arrive early enough to cool down, wipe down, and change before entering meeting place
    – Spend one, two hours
    – Walk home, shower again
    – Resign myself to being too exhausted to do the Big Thing for which I had requested to spend today working from home in the first place

    If there is a coded language for this that doesn’t communicate “I have a lot of issues that make showering, eating, and going outside extremely hard for me” but also doesn’t prompt “You think *you’re* busy, sweetie?” I’d love to find it.

    2. Argh!*

      Or you could shower & dress & get ready for work-from-home just as you would for work-somewhere-else so you’d feel less inconvenienced.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        If you have depression, it’s not about ‘just’ doing those things though. It’s harder and bigger than that.

    3. fposte*

      Oh, I’m sorry. I’m not sure if this is a vent or an actual request. In case if the first, yeah, it’s a serious PITA, hope it goes by fast.

      In case it’s the second: is your working from home an actual ADA accommodation? Because you could certainly raise the issue of trying to avoid getting sucked into meetings on those days.

      I also don’t think that those examples of coded language really are useful for work anyway–you can’t really call out tired or busy. Things you perhaps can do include making clear that it’s a health limitation (“Sorry, I’m under the weather today and can’t make it into the office”) or that your schedule is booked today (“Can’t do today, but I’ve got space on Tuesday at either 9 or 10–would those work?”).

      Unfortunately, sometimes work just does need you to come in; that’s kind of part of the bargain of work at home privilege, and it blows the day for a lot of people working at home for a variety of reasons. But maybe you have more room to protect your schedule than you’ve been using–I hope so, anyway.

    4. Princess Carolyn*

      It seems like an impromptu in-person meeting on a WFH would be an imposition even if you didn’t have these issues complicating things. Is video conferencing from home a possibility? What about saying you’re not feeling well?

    6. LCL*

      But, speaking as someone who doesn’t ‘get’ what mental illness is like, saying you are too exhausted helps us understand. Saying you are too sick is good enough. You don’t have to explain. I totally believe mental illness is real and can destroy your life, and should be accommodated as much as any other physical illness. But the things you’ve listed just sound like the day to day aggravation we all deal with. Let me answer your list, only to illustrate what me and people like me don’t get.
      1.Shower. I hate getting cold, and the bathroom needs to be painted, and half the time the towel smells musty and I have to get another. And I really fear falling in the tub and hurting myself.
      2. Eat something. And clean up after. One more chore, and hope what I want to eat hasn’t gone bad. Feel guilty about expired food. Hope the fruit flies stay away, and there is no vermin in the house.
      3. Get dressed and go. That’s what most of us do.
      4. Bring work clothes. Be dissatisfied with my wardrobe. Hope I can get to my car and job without stepping in sh!t or needles, hope a feral hasn’t prowled my car again.
      5. Get to work, hang out until it starts. I’d rather be home surfing the net.
      6. Spend two hours meeting with people I would never associate with if I had the choice. Refrain from telling annoying people they are being annoying. Don’t resort to physical violence or tell anyone to eff off.
      7. Go home.
      8. Too tired to do what I had planned. Welcome to adulthood.

      Again, I completely believe what you suffer from is real, and prevents you from doing these things. You don’t have to explain any further than your illness interferes with daily living. Your proposed explanation isn’t helping. And you shouldn’t have to explain.

  167. Wiley Coyote, suuuuuuper genius*

    I work as a process engineer. My boss has money in the budget for me to purchase a new desk chair. I am considering getting an exercise ball and a sit/stand desk instead because I have lower back issues sometimes.

    My two questions are: has anyone here used an exercise ball as a chair and does it work? And, should I be worried about this emphasizing my age difference since I am 25, the only female, and everyone else is at least 35. I’m worried that coming off as very young could damage credibility although no one has yet given an indication that they don’t respect me.

    1. writelhd*

      I tried exercise ball and found it really did not work, I think because it was too short. Right height one is important. There are other heights out there but I couldn’t change my desk height and didn’t want to go buy a bunch of different exercise balls.

      Instead, I have a sit/stand, one where I can switch between one or the other when I want. Having variety is good. It’s nothing fancy–I move my computer monitor up to the top of my computer tower, stack some boxes and books on my desk to raise up keyboard and mouse, and typically do half the day one way, half another.

      As to the age thing, eh. More people don’t do this than do, but there’s a couple of other standing desk people in my office of all ages.

      As an aside, check out the book Move your DNA by Katy Bowman. It’s an interesting read about keeping appropriately active and moving despite an office lifestyle.

    2. Sandra wishes you a heavenly day*

      I had an exercise ball and a chair and switched between the two. The ball definitely works as a chair, though the impulse to bounce can be hard to resist. I also had to work up to using it for longer than half an hour because you really are working when you’re on that ball.

      As to credibility, I don’t think it would come up. Not to me. I had mine when I was nearing 40. Most people I know who want more options than killer chairs are actually older than 25 and closer to 40-45.

    3. zora*

      They make a chair base for an exercise ball to sit on, which has wheels, and brings you up to a more normal desk height. My former job bought them from Gaiam, but I have also seen them on craigslist a lot because people apparently changed their minds, haha, but I really liked having it!

      I’m kind of thinking about getting one for my new job, but we do have nice chairs here, so I keep putting it off.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      I have not; a coworker at a prior job had one and she swore by it. But when I sat on hers to try it, I nearly fell over. It was just too unstable for me. If I jerked or twisted suddenly, it would make my back, which I injured some years ago, pop right out.

      And off-topic, but I LOVE your username. I like the way that rolls out! :D

    5. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      We have them all over the office and can request one, though they stress they have to be properly inflated and someone shows you the right posture. Honestly, the exercise ball is supposed to help you keep the discs fluid and moving in the back and I can confirm it helps with building some core strength!

  168. SophieChotek*

    Side jobs – like getting paid to participate in studies (not those surveys online) – more like academic studies/psychology studies
    Or like in the TV show Bull when they hire mock jurors…
    Or other panel research studies…

    Anyone had experience with this? How do you find reputable companies? (Besides through your university and sometimes those seemed limited to current students).

    Just curious. Thanks.

  169. Miss Elaine E.*

    Hello all:
    I wrote Alison earlier this week about this but also wanted to the the commentariat’s opinion on this email I received the other day.
    But first some background: I’ve been a Certified Professional Resume Writer (CPRW) for about five years. I responded to this company’s Indeed post seeking CPRWs back in October. The autoresponder said I’d hear back within four days. I heard nothing at all until today’s email:

    Hi, (NOTE: Yes, it was just “Hi,” My name was not included in the salutation.)

    Thank you for your interest in the Certified Professional Resume Writer (CPRW) position. After reviewing your resume in detail, we are not confident that you have the skills needed to satisfy the role as a Certified Professional Resume Writer.

    If you feel this message was sent was sent to you in error, please email us back with your strong Certified Professional Resume Writing qualifications.

    We do want to wish the best of luck and success to you!

    Sincerely,

    (Name Removed)

    While I admit it does sting to be told I don’t have the skills needed to perform the job I’ve been doing for five years (with many, many testimonials attesting to the quality of my work), I wonder if it would be a professional courtesy to caution them on how such a letter comes across. This is a company that provides a professional service to job seekers, presumably showing clients how to appropriately present their message. Yet, this company not only responded months after their stated four-day timeline, they also responded with an impersonal, non-addressed email that frankly insulted my abilities. Essentially, would there be any point in cautioning them to consider how their communications are coming across to their recipients? Or just let it go.

    Thanks in advance for your comments, I’m off now to take care of the backlog of resume orders with the skills I don’t apparently have. (Even with the holiday, I’ve exceeded my half-month salary goal.) :D

    1. Miss Elaine E.*

      Hello again: My post was in no way meant to suggest that I am perfect. Who knows? There could have been a stray typo or two in the mountain of materials I sent with my application. (Hard to proofread one’s own work, isn’t it?)

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      What kind of company was this? This line — “If you feel this message was sent was sent to you in error, please email us back with your strong Certified Professional Resume Writing qualifications” — reads really oddly to me, to the point that I wonder if the whole thing is some kind of scam (although if it was, I guess they wouldn’t reject anyone).

      Anyway, I’d let it go. They sound weird enough that they’re not worth putting any time into.

      1. Miss Elaine E.*

        Thanks Alison:
        That’s how I was leaning anyway. If I were to reach out to them it would only have been as a professional courtesy, as in pointing out that someone has spinach on their teeth: “Umm, do you realize how you’re coming off? Do you say do this to actual clients? You may want to think about this…”
        I’m pretty sure I would not have been happy with this company and have plenty of other sources for subcontract work that are courteous and professional. I think I dodged a bullet.
        Thanks again for your input — and for all you do on this site, which is my main internet addiction.

  170. AJJLC*

    I’m job hunting pretty seriously right now and I’ll often get two or three requests for a phone interview at a time for some reason. Since I’m flexible I extend this flexibility to my interviewers, often by saying something like “I’m free in the afternoons on these days next week.” This has made scheduling easy but sometimes I find myself waiting to write to others just so I know exactly when I’m free/not free, if that makes sense. Ideally I’d like to avoid two interviewers picking the same time, or without enough of a buffer (just in case), to avoid saying “I know I said that would work, but something came up, so it won’t.”

    1) Is that okay to say? Like honest to goodness? Or will it come across as if I don’t know how to manage my own time? If not, this brings me to 2) How can I schedule multiple phone interviews at once without looking like I can’t keep a calendar?

    This is my first-ever serious job hunt (I’m a new grad) so any tips would be helpful. Thanks in advance!

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      What if you said “As of right now, I’m free on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday afternoons.” It implies that your schedule is subject to change.

    2. A N O N*

      You could also give each interviewer more specific, different times.
      EX:
      To interviewer A: “I’m free on Monday from 10:00am 12:00pm or Wednesday from 3:00pm – 5:00pm”
      To interviewer B: “I’m free Monday from 1:00pm – 3:30pm or Tuesday 3:30pm – 5:00pm”

    3. Simone R*

      Depending on how long the interviewers take to get back to you, I think that would be fine! Just say, “unfortunately, something came up in that time, would XX work for you?” If they respond in 5 minutes and you’re not longer available then yeah, it might be a little weird.

      Also, I think it’s fine to email one and wait a day to email the next one and see if someone responds. But the suggestion below to narrow your times for each interview is probably the best.

  171. Jennifer's Newly-Employed Thneed - WOOT!*

    I got that job, y’all.

    Advice from here helped me write a more lively cover letter. Advice from here helped me not freak out, freeze up, and bury my head in the sand when I worried I’d waited too long to write a TY letter. Advice from here helped me ask for the amount of money I actually want – and I got it. (It also helped that they said that they would TELL ME if I asked for too little.) And advice from here taught me to withdraw my candidacy for the other job that I knew I could do well but I didn’t actually want — once I’d signed paperwork for the job I did want.

    I’ve never withdrawn candidacy for a job before, y’all. I’ve rarely had the luxury of a choice of jobs. What a feeling of power! (How annoying that they haven’t acknowledged it. But then, if they’d been quicker about the whole thing, I’d’ve been working at the less-desired job already for a month at this point.)

    So I’m getting to do what I think I do best (I’m a technical writer specializing in how-to documents and SOP’s); in a field I like and respect (biotech to help cure rare diseases) instead of one I don’t (banking); in a contract-to-hire setup that’s FOR REALS, as in they have already approved funding for the full-time position; and at a really small company that’s half in the Bay Area and half in London UK. And I’ll be working with the scientists. And I’m such a fan-girl for science!

    (My next challenge will be learning to work from home 3-4 days a week. Should I talk about that in a Friday open thread or a weekend one?)

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Congratulations!
      Believe me, it’s not hard to work from home. LOL!
      But as a tip, make sure you have a room with some privacy and a comfortable desk/chair. Treat it as you would any other work day and keep the same regular working hours and breaks. Then ENJOY when you can close your computer and not have to commute home!

      When I work at home, I keep the chat and IP phone open, so people can reach out with questions or the call from my desk onsite rings through. I don’t know if you’ll have that, but being available is important at some places.

    4. Tabby Baltimore*

      Congratulations! And I’d pick next week’s open thread, since you’re more likely to get more people to see your post that way, I think.

  172. Me, being anon again*

    How do you handle the office know it all who always has an answer for everything even when you don’t ask for it?

    1. Snark*

      “Fergus, I got this. No input required.” I’m pretty blunt, but my OKIA was driving everyone bananas.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      “Thank you for letting me know,” then either continue doing whatever it was you were doing, or keep walking away toward your destination. Silence works, too, as if s/he isn’t even there. If other people are around, you can pretend you think the speaker is talking to someone else.

    3. Courtney W*

      In my experience these people thrive on feedback/reactions – they’re often fishing to be told how helpful they are, for you to ask further advice, to see it done their way, etc. So if you don’t want to be getting these comments, give them the opposite of what they want – so as little of a reaction as possible. Some sound effect indicating that you heard them, then carry on with however you were going to handle the issue.

  173. Very anon indeed*

    Good news, bad news post:

    Bad news: A coworker I really like is leaving at the end of next week, for reasons I totally support and that will make them much happier, but it does mean the way my team works is about to be disarrayed. And my boss is in some denial about how this change is going to affect things (but then, boss has been head-down for months on a project that they vocally hate and has been kind of in denial about a LOT of things).

    Good news: Boss has more-or-less promised that I will be able to move my standing desk into former coworker’s office, getting me out of the open office that I detest. I’ve been a team player for two years in a work environment that is really not suited for the kind of work I’m doing, and apparently boss has been waiting for the right opportunity to fix the problem. The only possible hitch is grandboss, whose idea moving me into the bullpen was, but I think boss has a good idea how to go about making the case.

    Bad news: A normally reliable contractor has been turning over subpar work and pushing back when I’ve asked for revisions, and is complaining about a schedule that no other contractor seems to think is unreasonable and that this contractor has been fine with up until now. Unfortunately, the client on this project wants this contractor specifically, so my hands are tied. We’re about to submit the first phase of this project to the client for approval and I’m worried they’re going to come back with a lot of changes that will piss off the contractor even more.

    Good news: Maybe I’m wrong and the client will love the work. Maybe.

  174. Clean Bandit*

    I was wondering if any of you use privacy filters on your screens at work? I work in a large open plan office and I use privacy filters (as do a few of my colleagues).

    Have you encountered any problems from your employer or management about using them? Are you more comfortable using your computer/laptop when using them? Have you requested them and have you ever been denied?

    In my job I handle some confidential correspondence and so I made a case to my director for having them, as I noticed that some people would look at my screens when they came over to talk to me. A couple of my colleagues have requested the privacy filters but their request has been denied because my manager thinks that people that have them are messing about.

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      Just spitballing here: I don’t know if your shop handles government-related information, or personally identifying information from the public, but you might make a case for the filters if you do, since the filters could potentially serve as a way to ensure your office meets the records management requirements (required by the government or required as an industry standard) that your company is obliged to follow.

      1. Clean Bandit*

        That’s a good point, thanks. Yes, my workplace does handle Government-related information and health data. The data we hold is encrypted. I will make this suggestion to my colleagues.

  175. atexit*

    Sabotaged by the person training me.

    Very similar to the post from December 2015 — https://www.askamanager.org/2015/12/is-my-trainer-sabotaging-my-work.html

    As a background, I am very computer literate. Having started with PCs from the DOS days.
    Three weeks ago I started an entry-level clerical job where a very important part of my job was to scan packets of paper to PDF files using the office copier. Once the packets are scanned, I copy them to the network drive and rename them based on the information on the 1st page of the packets. Sounds easy enough. And it is except of course, you have to pay attention. But no biggie for me.
    My trainer was suppose to check everything as I went along but she got bogged down last week with her own work.
    She had been promoted which was why I was hired.
    So on Monday 7/10, after I returned to my desk from lunch I noticed that the stack of packets of paper was no longer there and that my trainer had them.
    At about 4pm, I get called into our manager’s office and I was told that I had made mistakes with every single packet that my trainer had checked so far. Six mistakes! Files were missing from the network drive.
    One set of files were those that I worked on that very morning and that I knew for a fact had been there were no gone.
    I was aghast.
    The manager wanted me to promise her that the mistakes would never happen again.
    LOL.
    Right.
    I was going to guarantee that the sabotage wasn’t going to happen again.
    Unfortunately, I could not and did not accuse the trainer. I had no proof.
    I ended up quitting at 5pm.
    No point in going on.
    It turns out that even before talking to me, the manager had already posted my job online again.

    Never thought I had to CYA by making screen captures.
    Worked 30 years and this was a first.

    1. Beancounter Eric*

      Be civil, be professional, be polite, but trust no one. Not your boss, not your trainer, not even those you consider “friends”.

      It takes longer, but retain backup of all your work – always!! Ideally, retain backup in a medium YOU control – I have a thumb drive with copies of every file I’ve touched since day one at current company – Outlook files included. Make backups of backups, also. Always lock your computer when leaving your desk and to as great an extent possible, write-protect files to reduce the chance they may be manipulated by others.

      1. atexit*

        It never dawned on me to have to have to CYA.
        She wasn’t a peer. She had been promoted.
        My friends and family ask me why she would do it, and I honestly don’t know.

        I wrote software in my former life, so I always kept back-ups.
        Just didn’t think I would need to do that for this entry-level clerical job paying barely above minimum wage.

        1. DietCokeHead*

          Goodness, I would never think to keep backups of papers that I’ve scanned and placed on a network drive. At any office I’ve worked at, it has always been stressed to save files on the network drive because those files are backed up by IT.

      2. Tabby Baltimore*

        Beancounter Eric, I realize this is late in the day, and you may not see this, but even if someone else sees it and responds, I’d appreciate it. I work somewhere where bringing in thumb drives is expressly forbidden. So, if you didn’t have that option, what would you be using instead? Thanks for your insights.

        1. atexit*

          At most major organizations, you get a personal folder on the network drive that only you and IT have access to. That’s where I would be putting my backups.

          If you don’t have that, use a hidden folder on your PC. That’s what I would have done in my situation this time had I known I needed to.

        2. Beancounter Eric*

          A cloud drive would be my next option – I worked for a company where cloud, USB, DVD/CD-ROM were all locked out, and there I was just stuck. Fortunately, it was an OK workplace, and low-grade paranoia was adequate.

      3. Ramona Flowers*

        Okay, you know that post about how toxic workplaces warp your thinking? This reminded me of it a little.

        It’s great to back up your work, but the reason to do that is because you dont want it to get lost, not out of paranoia.

        In this situation described above, it’s less about CYA and more about realising that you work for people who are toxic and will drive you round the bend.

        1. atexit*

          However, if I had backed up my work, I could have definitely said that my trainer removed those files.
          At least I would have had the satisfaction of being able to say “You lie”. LOL.

          But I do see what you are saying.

          In case others are wondering about someone else being the saboteur.
          I thought about that, but that isn’t likely.
          The others did completely different work.
          They would not know which files needed to be deleted to give the maximum effect that I was “careless”.

  176. Alexis Cassin*

    I have a phone discussion with the owner of a small start-up this afternoon. I am just curious if anyone has good questions specific to working in a startup with a small group of people. I have typically interviewed with large companies in the past and am trying to come up with questions that will help me determine fit in a smaller, close knit environment.

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      I have never interviewed for a small start-up, and all I know about working for one is what I’ve learned from AAM. So I’ll just suggest go search in the AAM archives using the terms “startup” and “work life balance” to get some idea of the problems people have had with working at one. Also, this AAM post was from someone who interviewed at a company where the employees worked “a ton of hours” (but wasn’t a startup) https://www.askamanager.org/2017/02/im-a-finalist-for-a-job-where-it-sounds-like-people-work-a-ton-of-hours.html so you might get some insights both from the letter and from the comments following it. Best of luck!

  177. Eva*

    So I’m getting a new boss. I loved my old boss, but she retired. Literally every other time in my life where I’ve stayed at a job through a change in management, it’s been a very, very bad experience and I’ve ended up leaving the job not long after. I really love this job, and there’s no indication that the new boss will be good or bad, I’ve got no information whatsoever.

    Does anybody have any comforting stories about awesome new bosses so that I can remind myself that my experience is not universal? Or just suggestions for how to start off on the right foot but also set good expectations up front?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I love my new boss. My old boss was great, but he was very much like, “But we tried that in 1994.”

      That attitude got old fast. Where as my new boss is totally up for trying new things. She’s been here now for three years and I couldn’t be happier with her. She’s not perfect, mind you, but she is just as good as my old boss.

    2. Aardvark*

      We had a management shake-up about 3 years ago, and got one of those “hey, we’ve hired this new dude to oversee your department, SURPRISE!” meetings. I was super skeptical for Reasons, but by about week 2, it was pretty clear that the new guy a) knew what he was talking about, b) was a nice person, and c) actually cared about and was good at supporting us and advocating for us. I think he’s the best boss I’ve had in my professional jobs and he’s one of the major reasons I haven’t left the organization. (As a lady-person in a male-dominated field, a good team and supportive leadership is huge.)

      I’d say have an open mind, be professional and nice, and be confident in your area of expertise. If you have time, think about 2-3 things you can share about your work that make you proud. I also have power shoes (conservative but high heels) that I wear whenever I have to attend a meeting in-person with someone intimidating, so I feel like my best self. YMMV on that one.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I adore my new manager. She’s actually been around longer than me but was on maternity leave when I started and her cover hired me so I was nervous. But she has been great.

      She killed a project that was driving me round the bend (everyone who claimed it was possible couldn’t help and everyone who could help pointed out that it wasn’t possible). She is far more emotionally intelligent than my old manager. And very funny.

    4. Chicken*

      I had a terrible boss and when my org was restructured, I ended up with a mediocre boss. He wasn’t great, but it was a huge improvement! Not sure how much that helps since you actually like your current one . . .

    1. Amber Rose*

      I did it once. Boss threw a tantrum, I fought back, and then I quit. Life’s too short for that crap.

  179. JoAnna*

    I was laid off from my job of eight years in April, and on Monday I start my new job! I’m vacillating between excited and terrified, but I think I am mostly excited. In my last position, I worked from home full-time (and had done so for several years) so it’s going to be weird driving into the office every day again.

    I got an email from the “people engagement associate” telling me when to arrive and etc., and I was informed that all of my lunches for the first week would be covered by the company! So that’s a nice perk.

  180. AnonyN00b*

    I need help strategizing phrasing for going on interviews.

    I don’t have a good poker face at all! And my boss likes to ask point blank if the appointments I have are medical in nature. Ostensibly this is because we operate by the letter of the law and the law in my organization is that sick time is taken into consideration at your annual review, as sick time is not supposed to be a fully utilized benefit. However, they also incentivized perfect attendance with the promise of two additional days of annual leave if you don’t take any sick time. After being an AAM reader for a few years, I’m annoyed but not surprised, and I know it’s just indicative of how the organization as a whole operates.

    I’m out of sick time due to FMLA. Anytime I take off right now to care for my terminally I’ll family member is mostly unpaid, so I’m not exactly abusing the leave policy. I still have my own health appointments to make, though, so when I asked my boss to take an hour of my personal PTO to go for an appointment, she said that’s only possible if I took it under the time sheet coding of “annual leave used in lieu of sick leave.” Apparently the unwritten nuance of the policy under my boss is not “you’re allowed to use sick time for medical appointments”, it’s “you HAVE to use sick time for appointments.” Ridiculous. It’s also difficult to make up time as an hourly employee and I am not able to work from home.

    Needless to say, I want to job search since I’m pretty confident I can get employment somewhere where I’ll be treated like an adult and have more flexibility!

    I also tend to lack confidence so I’ll practice saying these with a straight face/ confidence. Its extra tricky since ive already established a pattern of being open about weekend and PTO plans, or that I have a dental appointment (also falls under sick leave category…) and suddenly becoming super private will probably raise suspicion.

    What kind of phrasing can I use to be able to schedule interviews so that I can use my PTO without lying to say it’s a medical appointment?

    1. Colette*

      “I have an appointment” should be fine – but if it’s not, practice an acceptable lie (I.e.”I have a follow up with my doctor/physio for an injury “) .

    2. Matilda Jefferies*

      Eh, I say lie. You shouldn’t have to, of course, but if they’re going to penalize you for telling the truth, what choice do you have? Good luck with all the…dental work!

      1. Artemesia*

        If you don’t have a poker face then that guilty look can be embarrassment because, you know your gyno appointment. Of course lie.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      I’ve always been exempt (and/or) been able to make up time as needed, so these are some lines I’ve used-
      “Can I take a long late lunch today? I’m meeting some folks.” (Works best if the appointment is in the mid-day time range.)
      “I have an appointment on Tuesday, can that be worked out? It’s not medical or anything, but it is important to me.” (Asked what it is.) “It’s kinda personal. Nothing bad, just personal.”
      “Would it be possible to do a half-day on ()? I need to run some errands that are hard to do on the weekend.”

      Maybe these will work for you too!

      1. AnonyN00b*

        since I’m none exempt it’s definitely harder, but I think I can make that “impossible to do on the weekends” thing work. I’ll test it out in the coming weeks!

    4. Jujubes*

      Do you have to request time off in person? An email may help you come up with more direct, to the point phrasing for this. I also think AnotherLibrarian’s suggestions are good and I’d recommend saying something similar.

      1. AnonyN00b*

        I can try email, but she might not actually answer… Asking in person gets me clarity rather than leaving me in suspense. I’ve asked her if she prefers in person vs email requests for PTO, but she won’t give me a straight answer. One of the many “cuts” that makes her management style death-by-a-thousand-paper-cuts for me.

  181. Dino Shore*

    We are forming a group at my workplace to set our organizational preparation and response to emergencies. It will include mostly internal staff but also a few key people from outside organizations.

    I’m not sure what to call the group. Is there a difference between a “work group” and a “committee”? Any thoughts?

    1. Colette*

      Emergency preparedness team? Personally, I’d avoid committee (that sounds too passive to me) but if that’s what things are commonly called in your environment, it’s ok too.

      1. Dino Shore*

        Our company is pretty committee-heavy (we have a very participatory culture), so it wouldn’t be out of the norm to call it that.

    2. Matilda Jefferies*

      I would avoid “work group” as well, as I think it doesn’t carry enough weight. You need a name that makes it clear that what you’re talking about isn’t optional, that people have to listen to you and do what you say.

      Google tells me that “team” is a common one, and I also like “Office of Emergency Management.”

    4. Nynaeve*

      Task force? It sounds more active than “committee” and basically implies a group of people who are trying to accomplish a specific task and not just talk about things.

  182. Detective Amy Santiago*

    This story popped up on my Facebook feed. I did a quick search of the comments to see if it was posted and it doesn’t look like it.

    https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2976906-To-be-furious-for-being-called-out-for-menstruating-at-work

    Some dude called HR because a woman on his team was using a hot water bottle to relieve menstrual cramps and HR gave her a hard time about it! She didn’t even mention her period when he asked why she was using the hot water bottle, simply said it was “for pain relief”.

    1. Friday*

      I just…. what. This dude is horrible and the woman should complain and escalate it up the ladder if necessary. Professionally, of course, but come on, she never even said the P word to the dude. Good thing too; he sounds like would have fainted.

      2. Observer*

        Ramina Flowers is right – it was the *HR DIRECTOR* who called her out for being so “unprofessional”!

    4. paul*

      Christ on a crutch, I use hot pads for pain relief (arthritis in ALL THE JOINTS). Someone complains about it and I’ll probably give them the evil and tell them to bugger right off.

    5. Observer*

      It’s quite obvious that the HR director knows that what she just instructed this woman is problematic. She went off Slack to avoid this being documented, which speaks VOLUMES.

  183. Colette*

    Some of you may remember the three month contract I started almost 2 years ago. Today I signed the papers to become a full employee. Yay!

  184. Me*

    I was breaking my rule about not job hunting after five pm last night, and I saw an admin job with a law enforcement agency. Not the one I would have picked (state), but the location is close to my house and it pays great. I have no idea if they would call my references before an interview or after, so I gave those folks a heads-up on Facebook.

    The application page was a little tricky, and I was tired, so of course after two hours, I got to the end and messed up and all my information vanished before I could submit. Gah! But this morning I tried again and all is well. Now I’m just trying to frame how to explain why I left my last job in an interview. I think I have a good way to say it and answer the “What is your weakness” question at the same time.

    Lucky for me, I saved some notes I took when one of my college instructors gave me pointers on interviewing with a police department. I have way more than the required years of admin experience, though not in law enforcement, but I do have a degree in Criminal Justice besides my English degree, so there’s that. So what if I can’t do math! And I’m being COMPLETELY OPEN about my dyscalculia with EVERYBODY this time around. I do not give two shits if that’s ill-advised; I do not want to get a job and then have my employers think I don’t want to do something when I actually can’t. That was part of the problem with the big change in Exjob and I don’t want that to happen again. I’ve also thought about how to explain accommodations a little better. Exjob did not understand them and it didn’t matter anyway, because even with proper accommodations, I couldn’t have done the job the way NewBoss wanted. I really was hoping for something like the proofreading job (that never got back to me), but I can do an admin job if it’s a field like this, where I have real, genuine interest.

    I have an interview on Monday for a dead-end job. I hope they don’t offer it to me if I could get this one instead. It’s not even 40 hours a week and clear across town besides. :(

    I saw this listing not too long after I yelled at the universe in the shower to get a move on, so maybe it listened this time. *makes a note to try that again later with something else, LOL* Wish me luck! They probably won’t even contact me, but you never know. #ohpleaseohpleaseineedadecentjobnotashittyone

    4. Rebecca*

      I have crossed everything, and now need to take an extra Alleve to work out the kinks :) Good luck!!!!!

    7. Tabby Baltimore*

      This sounds very promising. You are in a great position here to know just the right questions to ask, and your degree and previous experience should really help you with understanding the unspoken assumptions behind the answers you’ll be getting. For what it’s worth, coming from a complete Internet stranger, it sounds like you have a really good chance at getting both a phone screen and an interview. Good luck!

  185. Accidental Analyst*

    It seems that bots to search and apply for jobs are starting to emerge (link to follow). Would you trust your cover letter and resume to a bot to beat the automated application services?

    2. Overeducated*

      Hahaha haha no way. Taleo and the like can’t even auto populate from my resume correctly.

    1. Gem*

      That reminds of the story last week(?) about the guy who got fired for helping the police with a kidnapping. Will dig out the link in a reply. It’s just ridiculous, knee-jerky crap. I do wonder if they’re only reversing this because it went viral and if it hadn’t they’d have stuck to their guns?

      2. Observer*

        Oh, it’s clear that they only reversed because of the negative publicity. Heavens, you don’t even need to like the police to realize that you do NOT fire someone over a complaint made by someone who gets violent in your store! They don’t care anything at all about their staff, but the backlash probably made them realize that they could lose more than the one customer.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Yeah, I saw that–it pissed me off. The kid didn’t take a cookie from the business and give it to the cop. He used his own money to buy it. The business lost nothing by the gesture. But they probably lost customers who saw them kowtow to the angry patron; I would have left and not returned. And I’m sure a lot of people will boycott them once they hear about it. This decision did more to hurt their bottom line than anything that kid did.

    4. Not surprised*

      Given that it’s normal and acceptable in America to hate, deride and not support the police and police officers I’m not at all surprised at the suspension.

      1. Artemesia*

        I see a lot more fetishizing of the police and military and obsequious ‘thanking’ than non support. I think the fact that juries rarely convict them of murders even when they are clearly documented on tape supports that view. The guy behind him in the line clearly was not one of those police fetishists though and the shop manager was a wimp for letting an unreasonably angry customer push this kid out. There are lots of cases where people get fired because of an unreasonable customer; managers should stand behind their staff.

        1. Not surprised*

          Being thankful to the people who serve and risk their lives is called being grateful and being a decent human being. Which unfortunately is sorely lacking in America these days. Nothing to do with fantasizing anything.

      2. Observer*

        Neither half of your sentence is true.

        The second half is especially untrue – you can despise the police all you want, but you NEVER EVER give in to someone who gets physically violent towards your staff. Period. Even if the staff person did something that is grounds for firing.

        They didn’t fire the kid because he bought the policeman a cookie. They fired him because they are cowardly idiots who were to spineless to tell off someone who should have, at minimum, been banned from their stores.

        The broad reaction, by the way, totally contradicts your claim.

  187. Jenny*

    My spouse gave notice at his job earlier this week. Apparently so did another coworker. Both decided to be honest and said they were leaving because of their relatively new manager (about a year). Apparently another coworker gave notice the next day. In the past month a total of 4 others all supervised by this guy quit for other jobs too. I really hope senior management takes this seriously but I am not optimistic. But I am glad to get my husband back. All the last minute travel and stunts like keeping him on the phone until 8:30 pm for insurgent issues with no notice got old. He had been with the company for close to ten years but the last year with this guy has been intolerable.

    1. Artemesia*

      One of the big fails in American business is the failure to manage managers and evaluate them. Not very many managers get fired for being bad managers. But they result in huge turnover.

  188. Aspiring Cat Lady*

    A bit of an ethics question I guess.

    I’ve been working for teapots.com for a while. Started as an entry-level content team member, but migrated over into the technical/dev side over the years (don’t code, but work with devs to scope, test, and support). We recently had a project to replatform the website, working with a consulting group Earl Grey Inc. to get it launched. Earl Grey’s team implementation team included a business analyst role and I realized… I would looove to have her job! It sounds great. I’ve worked on a few site launches during my time here at Teapots and I enjoyed those projects. I really love that the BA at Earl Grey was this perfect combination of all the things I am and aspire to be — THE subject matter expect on the platform, deeply knowledgeable about content management and all user functions of the platform, very involved/knowledgeable about the technical side as well without being an actual developer, managing the training & UAT process on their side… I think I’d really enjoy and I’d be great. And, from the outside anyway, Earl Grey seems like a good company. They have an office in our area, and I’ve been watching the jobs. If the BA job comes up, I want to apply.

    But I’m wondering if that breaks any unspoken rules? Leaving your company to work with a consulting firm they used. (Not that I would be hired, who knows.) I could see it being… awkward. Has anyone ever done that? Or is it just Not Done?

    1. Sibley*

      depends on the industry. Especially if it doesn’t happen for another year though, you’re probably in the clear.

  189. virus question*

    Does this happen to anyone else — sometimes while I am browsing this page, my Firefox basically shuts down and starts giving me some alert and saying I have a virus. Each time I do control, alt, delete and close everything out for a few minutes and open it back up. Other than that, I have no symptoms of a computer virus and it only ever happens to me while looking at this page.

    1. PA-ish*

      I was having similar problems, but clearing my cookies and cache fixed it. If that doesn’t work, report it to Alison using the link in the ‘Leave A Comment’ section.

    2. paul*

      Google the *exact* message you’re getting. It may be some other malware on your PC, not this website.

  190. Sibley*

    Rejoice, sorta! A coworker who is causing grief by being crappy at her job, per the manager “the situation is being handled”

    While I don’t WANT people to be fired, when you’ve earned it, you deserve it.

    1. Snark*

      I had a boss who was Sicilian once. Not Noo Yawk Sicilian, native born. Once I complained about a coworker who was really, really pissing everyone off, and he just narrowed his eyes, shook his head, and muttered “Aspetta.” Which is Italian for “just hold on.”

      And I’m like, “Boss, you’re scary as f**k when you do the Mafia thing.”

      Coworker was fired the next day. Not sure if they got a horse head in the bed or not.

  191. Snark*

    Ah, it’s approaching 2:30 on Friday afternoon, that magical hour when the Imp of Unprofessional Behavior takes up residence on my shoulder and tells me to knock off for a beer and/or a hike. Damn you, Imp.

    1. Delta Delta*

      I’ll enable the Imp. Take a hike with a travel mug that happens to have beer in it.

  192. Juli G.*

    I’ve been struggling to get out of a hole I procrastinated myself into by not doing the tasks I hate and taking on lots of extra things I like. Then I would come in and try to finish all my hated tasks, procrastinate because I was overwhelmed and get in deeper.

    I admitted it to my boss and she convinced me to take a slower more deliberate path. I’m excited to say that after one last thing on Monday, I will be completely caught up (okay, I’ll be under the normal crazy pile of work but there are no super old tasks hanging out!) And really, when I tackle hated tasks in a timely way, they aren’t so bad.

    1. The IT Manager*

      This is awesome. Go you. I just finished a hated task that probably really due two weeks ago and absolutely needed to be completed by today (but should been completed earlier so it could be reviewed by others today).

      And when I finally got it done, I was like “why did that take so long for me to really get started?” I have some excuses but not two week late excuses. Not excuse but problem to be solved, getting started and continuing despite minor interruptions and restarting after minor interruptions. I’m easily distracted when I don’t want to do a task.

  193. Amber Rose*

    We got our audit back and we passed by the skin of our teeth. At least we passed. Dude was a donkey. His suggestions are terrible! In some cases he suggested we do things we already do. And he docked us points for things that are not even part of the audit (I say as an auditor not a cranky employee, though I am that also).

    Now I have to go through this mess and try to sort out the decent stuff from the bull. And it’s a 200 page document! That he printed, and it’s sitting like a brick on my desk. I usually give people flash drives.

    If this is what they usually deal with, no wonder I get emails back on my audits praising me for detailed notes and not needing very many revisions.

    1. Simone R*

      We had someone mail us data on a CD one time! (In 2016) So the delivery method could be worse?

      2. Observer*

        No, a CD is better than paper.

        But, really who in this day and age does paper? That alone deserves the title “donkey”.

    2. Observer*

      Scan and OCR it.

      Is there a possibility of responding to the audit findings? At least internally?

  194. aLittleResearchAssistant*

    Is it weird to connect with former co-workers on LinkedIn when I’m no longer in that industry?
    Some background-
    I start a new job this Monday (!!!) and it will be both my first full time job and first job in my industry. Between my college graduation and this month I’ve had a temporary summer gig at a country club. While I didn’t really like the job, there were some awesome people there. Does connecting with them on LinkedIn make me look weird to potential employers/ future graduate advisers?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Nope. I’ve connected through lots of past co-workers after switching fields.

  195. self published*

    I’m a writer and was dealing with sicknesses, vacation, and procrastination. But today I knocked out 1,000 words!

  196. Gem*

    Anyone got any tips on giving new hires the confidence to try and figure things out rather than just ask you?

    I’m moving on from my job, my last day is 25th July (2 months notice period, fml). My replacement started on 3rd July and she’s not trying anything before coming to me. So, we’re software testers and she asked me the other day ‘how do I add ?’ I asked what she’d tried and she’d not tried anything. The answer was to go to the part of the website labelled content. Where she’d been working for the whole day.

    (I am frustrated that we’ve hired someone who’s never worked in an agency, has never had to help with planning user stories or in fact had an active role in software development (she doesn’t seem to be able to keep track of deadlines either, or manage work effectively when faced with multiple deadlines) to replace me, and I fear this is also bubbling over a bit).

    ANYWAY. I am hoping once she gets confident she’ll at least stop asking me how to use the site and try to figure it out for a bit first but no idea how to try to encourage that. I’ve never had to handover work before like this (and obviously I’ve still got to do the work I’ve still not handed over, so it’s not like I’m overflowing with time). Anyone got any tips?

    Holy parentheses, batman!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      So, we’re software testers and she asked me the other day ‘how do I add ?’ I asked what she’d tried and she’d not tried anything.

      This would probably be a good opportunity to have a meta-conversation with her about figuring things out herself: “I know they’ll be things you don’t know right away, and I don’t want you to be afraid to ask me if you have questions, but before you do, I want to make sure you’re taking advantage of all the resources you have available first.”

      That said, even though you should do that… I’m not confident, based on what you’ve shared (e.g., “she doesn’t seem to be able to keep track of deadlines either”), that she is just having typical “I’m new and not sure how to navigate this place” issues. Sounds as if she just has trouble in general with deadlines, taking intiative, etc.

      1. Gem*

        She’d be a great addition to the team – very thorough if very very junior – but as a replacement for me, who has more projects than any other team member? (I just picked up more small projects, compared to one or two full site builds, not boasting) I don’t think she’s going to be up to speed before I go, and I’m not sure the team will have time to support her as needed.

        It’s not my problem, and I wasn’t involved in hiring my replacement at all, but I don’t think this is fair on both the new person and my co-workers who’ll be depending on her.

        1. Artemesia*

          Not your monkey. You really need to stop taking ownership of this. You didn’t hire her, if your boss screwed this up it will be on him to fix it. You do what you can to hand off as you are doing, and then you close your eyes, hold your nose and jump. And you are gone, it is no longer your problem. You really need to stop caring about things that are beyond your control and not your responsibility.

      2. AnonyMouse*

        You might have to coach her through it a bit.
        E.g. “So, we’re software testers and she asked me the other day ‘how do I add ?’ I asked what she’d tried and she’d not tried anything.” — at that point you could give the meta-conversation that Anonymous Educator just suggested, plus, “so, why don’t you go try a couple things first, and if you still can’t figure it out in an hour, come back.” to force her into the practice.

    2. Simone R*

      Be clear! Tell her “Before you come to me, please try a few things on your own.” Depending on the issue, if she still does it, say, “why don’t you try a few things then come back to me.”

      If she’s REALLY unfamiliar with the software or whatever, it may be helpful (although excessively hand-holdy) to sit down with her and talk her through figuring out stuff she doesn’t know. “Ok when I don’t know this I first check Y menu, if it’s not there, then Z, etc etc.”

      1. Gem*

        Yeah, I think I just need to be a bit more firm and tell her I want her to try and figure stuff out. It’ll take longer but I do think it will be better for her. I’ve given her both a walkthrough of the software and plenty of time to explore by herself so I don’t think it’s too much to ask, I just need to actually ask.

    3. Gem*

      That sentence was meant to say ‘how do I add [content type]?’ but I’d used pointy brackets that were stripped out.

  197. Tim*

    Is it ever too early to let someone go when you don’t think they’ll be a good fit?

    I had someone start on my team on Monday and I don’t see any point in continuing with her. She is still really struggling with basic tasks like logging on to a computer (?!), AND she’s upset or offended pretty much everybody here already. Based on what I’ve heard from coworkers she ran into elsewhere in the building without realizing she’d be working with them, the stuff I’ve witnessed personally is her idea of playing nice. Besides berating and criticizing people at random she has also made some offensive comments relating to race and disability.

    My boss hired her. He thinks she’s just “overexcited” and that we need to give her a chance. I can’t let her go without my boss’s approval unless I involve the people above him (all terminations require at least two to sign off on it). Should I? If not, how long should I wait for things to improve? I already talked to her about this on Tuesday and it didn’t lead to any improvement. Another talk on Thursday also did nothing. She still can’t log on to a computer without help. Practically my entire team has come to me with complaints already and I’m worried that this is going to end up as the final straw for a lot of people. I’m leaving next month but I feel like I ought to at least try and save the team from this person before I go…thoughts?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Your boss hired her, but is she your direct report? If it requires your boss’s approval, I think you really need to be clear with your boss on what the firing procedure is for this person. A PIP with clear benchmarks? Is your boss in “I’m determined she’ll work her… don’t even think about firing her” mode? Or is it more like “I don’t see an issue yet… you’re jumping the gun”?

      If it’s more like the latter, I would probably talk about what a PIP would look like and what the timeframe would be exactly. Based on what you’ve written, though, I doubt your boss would go for you firing her before you leave next month.

      1. Tim*

        She is my direct report for now, but typically once trained people go back and forth as needed between my team and another manager’s – ordinarily we handle the hiring and firing between the two of us but we’ve been swamped lately and my boss decided he was going to do the hiring this round to “help.” The other manager hasn’t had any contact with her yet and if she can’t log into her accounts he never will.

        It’s more the latter issue; my boss thinks it’s too early. She’s on a 90-day probation period right now and we don’t do PIPs until after that. I’ve had one person previously not work out during the probation period and my boss signed off on it with no argument, but he hadn’t personally hired that guy.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          You may just have to suffer through it. I was once in a situation in which one of my co-workers inherited her predecessor’s hiree, who was a bad hire—pretty much couldn’t do well anything that was in the job description. Nobody wanted the new hire there, not her and not her boss or her boss’s boss. But the org had a strict HR policy on firings, and so there needed to be repeated warnings and second and third chances and lots of conversations and documentation… overall, it took about 5 months to finally fire this person.

    2. Rebecca*

      It seems if she cannot log on to a computer without help, and using a computer is part of her job function, she may not be the person for this role. I think you could frame it like that. I’m not being mean, but this is very puzzling to me, as small children in school can be taught to log onto their computers…so…I’m not sure what’s going on here. It seems very odd to me.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Well, it’s not doing a kindness to keep her overly long. Maybe 2-3 weeks for her to “settle.”
      As most jobs have a 60-90 day probationary period, this shouldn’t be difficult if she’s struggling that much.

      1. Tim*

        There’s a 90-day probationary period but it still requires two people to sign off on it to let her go, and I don’t know that she’ll ever work with anyone but me when she can’t get past the day-one basic stuff. I guess I’ll have to give her another week or two, but I don’t really have the time to be cleaning up after her. My boss doesn’t believe in firing people for performance (one of the reasons I’m leaving).

        1. Observer*

          Does he get that people who insult everyone around them and who make disparaging remarks about legally protected groups are a problem, and need to be let go?

    4. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      Yep, I would have a talk with her like “we talked about these things, and there’s been no improvement. I need you to show x, y and z improvement in the next week or your job is in jeopardy” so she knows exactly what’s at stake. (Also, make sure to specifically mention the offensive comments and tell her there is a 0 tolerance policy on those, because it’s a legal issue, and that if you hear one more complaint about that then she’s instafired.) And then, at the same time, start the process of convincing your boss. Lay everything out and say that you strongly believe that this person should be fired on X date if they don’t show these clear improvements (with X date being a week later.) If he balks, ask what he considers to be a reasonable timeline, making it clear that the improvements just aren’t negotiable, you need to know how long is reasonable to give her to make them.

      If he’s still not ready to fire after all that, I would go over his head. Especially since you can point to a legal liability and your own job would not be in jeopardy (since you’re leaving anyway), you can frame it at that point like “continuing to employ this person will be intolerable to others on the team, and you’ll be driving away people far, far better to keep than her, so I felt compelled to bring this to your attention.” Lay out, briefly, the steps you’ve already taken, and tell them that you leave it to them to take action if they agree, and then leave it at that.

      I do feel that you should do everything you can to either compel this employee to make the improvements fast or facilitate her exit, since being a short-timer puts you in a uniquely safe position compared to your poor co-workers!

      1. Tim*

        I think focusing on the offensive comments is probably a good idea. My boss doesn’t like to do anything about performance (one of the reasons I’m leaving) but might pay attention when there are legal implications. I’m terrified of what will happen when she eventually gets left alone with a client.

    6. Observer*

      I feel like a broken record, because I keep on saying this but Document.

      Keep a running list of each complaint you get, each problem you witness, your conversations with her (follow them up with emails, and CC your boss so she knows he is seeing them) and the effects they are (not) having. Put together a list of what has already happened, and then keep adding to it for a week or so. Highlight the ones that are legally problematic – racial or ability related slurs are a biggie – and then go back to your boss. If that doesn’t work, loop in the higher ups.

      Be very specific with the employee about what she is doing wrong.

  198. Anon here*

    I’m in Records Management and had an interview where they asked me if I had experience with certain databases. I don’t. I was flustered and said “no.” I’m thinking that I should have said something more like “I’ve haven’t used X database, but I’ve used Y and Z databases.”

    Is it bad to say a flat out no to a question? I don’t want to lie and say I have experience when I don’t.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Not necessarily bad. I would say, though, that a flat-out “no” wouldn’t be what I would look for if a candidate hadn’t had experience with it. Maybe something more like “No, I don’t have direct experience with it, but I’m somewhat familiar with it. That’s SQL-based, right?” (just an example—you wouldn’t actually say that unless you knew the database was SQL-based).

      That said, I’ve also been involved with hiring for a very obscure database, and we pretty much expected candidates to say that they didn’t have experience with our database and that they hadn’t even heard of the database. That didn’t at all prevent us hiring anybody; we were just curious.

  199. PA-ish*

    Looking for some job board recommendations…

    After some promising interviews, I will hopefully be leaving my role as a PA to a self-employed consultant soon. My boss is aware and very supportive of my job search, but is anxious that they’ll be left to find a replacement on their own (they have various mental health issues which make organizing things difficult for them – hence why they have a PA), so we’d like to be able to start looking for candidates as soon as I have accepted a job offer so that I can help with the hiring process as much as possible in the time I’ll have left.

    It’s a part-time job (16 hours a week), with the option for someone with the right background (science) to pick up some bits of consulting work as well. Any suggestions on where to post this job would be really appreciated :-)

      1. fposte*

        That’s a great idea–even full-timers take on that level of part-time work regularly. PA-ish, check to see if any nearby universities have virtual or even physical job boards. You might want to expand to include schools in softer sciences, too; I bet some of our science librarian students would be great at this, and maybe some science ed folks would be too.

  200. womp.*

    Guys, I’m really stressed.

    I went into a second round interview earlier this week. I think I did really well, and the ED looked really invested in touring me around the office and the team even clapped (enthusiastically!) after my activity for their target audience. The ED said they wanted my references, and would be in touch by the end of the week with next steps. I am up against one other candidate.

    End of the week is here, and I know for a fact that she hasn’t checked at least one of my references. And I just got an email from her saying that there were unexpected delays in the hiring process this week, and she’d be in touch on Monday with next steps.

    I know I can’t read into this too much but first I thought “Oh, there must be delays in checking references, they’re in a really different time zone, I’ll bet that’s the hold up”. Then I realized that they could have offered it to the other candidate and are waiting on a response.

    :O( I really liked this team and job. Now I am just glum.

    1. AnonyMouse*

      That’s always so hard, but just remember there are so many reasons why hiring processes get delayed that have nothing to do with you. A key person may be unexpectedly out of office. Summertime means many people may be on vacation. The office might have been visited by a passel of puppies and nobody got any work done for a day! Delay or not, you did your best and so all you can do is wait. In the meantime, be good to yourself! And good luck!

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      See, that could mean anything from ‘important decision maker is off work due to a funeral’ to ‘our aircon broke and we all went home’.

  201. Tired of Being Sick*

    I’ve been dealing with a chronic condition this year (taken very short medical leave, have intermittent leave set up via FMLA and have taken a few days off with that) and on top of it all, my immune system has taken a whacking and so I recently came down with a bad bug and had to take another day off work + a day working from home, unrelated to chronic issue.
    I just had my mid-year eval and my boss is really happy with my work, (yay). But he’s always been really unsympathetic as a person, I mean that in a literal sense, he isn’t actively mean or uncaring, he just doesn’t seem able to empathize or sympathize much, so it’s hard to talk to him about personal issues. (e.g. he will never say no or give me a hard time if I need the day off, but he will never ask me how I’m doing the day after or consider not dropping a ton of work on my head once I’m back, even after an ER trip) He asked me how things were going from my perspective and I said I’ve felt like it’s hard to keep my head above water because I’ve been sick so often, and he said something like, “your work’s fine!” and moved on immediately.
    I’m glad my work quality hasn’t suffered, but I don’t know how to address that I’m anxious and miserable because I’m constantly worrying about keeping up my work quality amid constant sickness. I feel like I can’t ask for more accommodation on top of the FMLA and all the days I’ve already taken off, and I don’t think my boss will ever think to cut me some slack. As far as he’s concerned, I’m doing great and should keep doing what I’m doing. I’m not sure I can. Open to any advice.

    1. LCL*

      Your supervisor is being modern and cautious. People for various reasons too long to explore here are becoming EXTREMELY militant about privacy around medical issues. He did ask you, wanted to hear from your perspective, and he moved on immediately. He’s not unsympathetic, but he’s either been slapped for asking personal questions or instructed not to ask any medical questions. He won’t inquire about your condition until you tell him specifically that you want him to ask these questions. Just talk to him. You are doing great it sounds like.

      1. Tired of Being Sick*

        The thing is, he is nosy about the medical stuff. He’s asked things like, “so you don’t have to share, but what’s going on” when I first told him about the chronic condition.

      1. Tired of Being Sick*

        I could potentially try to push back more. Our work environment is pretty ad hoc/fast paced, so if I say no, someone else will end up with it. I can only say no so much. It’s a good idea though, thank you!

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          It just struck me that maybe he’s been all ‘business as usual’ and needs to be told that there’s a problem with your workload before he’ll realise. Don’t think of it as pushing back but as checking how to prioritise.

    3. fposte*

      Oh, that sounds really stressful; I’m sorry. But I feel like you’re talking about two different things. 1, your boss doesn’t offer sympathetic statements or inquiries about your illness, and 2, you’d like more accommodation for your illness. I don’t think they’re necessarily related. I can get that if you want a shoulder and some moral support it’s disappointing not to have it from your boss, but a lot of bosses aren’t about the personal side of stuff, and that doesn’t make them bad or unsympathetic. I wouldn’t likely change the workflow for somebody being out the previous day either, because if they’re not up to working I assume they’d take the day.

      But he’s been absolutely willing to accommodate you, it sounds like, so what accommodation would you be seeking? I think it would make more sense to figure it out and to ask for it that it assume you won’t get it and spiral down. Is it also possible that you’re underusing your intermittent FMLA and could stand to take it a little more often or for a little longer? I do think if a therapist isn’t in the mix already it’s worth bringing one on; your EAP may be another way that your work can provide support.

      So basically I think you should ask for it before you assume you shouldn’t get it, and I hope your health and happiness improve.

      1. Tired of Being Sick*

        Thanks a lot, fposte! You have clear eyes here. I generally agree with this statement: ” I wouldn’t likely change the workflow for somebody being out the previous day either, because if they’re not up to working I assume they’d take the day.” It’s complicated a bit for me with the fact that in that particular situation, he was asking me to start my day extra early (7am) after I had just told him I got out of the ER at 2am. Should I have then said, hey, I can’t? Maybe I should’ve but it felt like I didn’t have a choice, plus I’m trying to not take more sick days than I need to. I definitely could do work, but having to get out of bed early and be at full brain power at 7am was extra demanding in that situation.

        I think more generally, you’re right that I need to figure out what I need and just ask for it/ use it without feeling guilty. Thanks for pointing this out.

        1. fposte*

          I absolutely think you could say a version of “Hey, I can’t.” “I won’t be work-ready at seven, but I should be fine at the regular time.” Or “I’m afraid I’m going to have to take the morning off, but I’ll be in at 1; let’s talk about how to make sure we don’t fall behind.”

          But I’m raising an eyebrow here–if I understand this correctly, he asked you at 2 am to come in earlier than usual the next morning? That’s…not reasonable, whether you were in the ER or not.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      So I’ve been thinking about the part about sympathetic statements and being caring. I’m completely ignoring everything else in this particular comment.

      Some people are good at the human to human stuff and some are not. Some use one or more of the five love languages or whatever the work equivalent might be – and some use none. For example I left a job after I told my manager I was seeing the grief counsellor they’d made available after the death of a colleague I’d worked with at another of our offices and all he said was “if you feel you must”.

      Here’s what’s confusing me. Your manager asked how things were going at work from your perspective. He said you don’t have to share, but what’s going on. Did he ask/say these things kindly? What is it you wanted him to say instead? If he’s asking too much of you, and you feel pressurised, that sucks and you need to bring it up. But I’m wondering what, to you, a sympathetic boss actually looks like? Do you think you will know it when you see it?

      1. Tired of Being Sick*

        Good questions. Your manager experience- the “if you feel you must” – reminds me a lot of my manager. He’s definitely not intentionally mean, but he comes across as unfeeling. I’ve had co-workers ask to go to the doctor in emergency situations and his response has been “that’s probably fine” whereas I know other bosses I’ve had would say “Yes! Go, hope you feel better!”

        I don’t need my boss to coddle me, that’s really not his job. But when he asked me how things were going at work from my perspective, and I said that I felt like I couldn’t keep my head above water some days, his very short response (“your work’s fine”) felt like all he cares is that my work output is good regardless of if I’m killing myself to get there. I would have liked if he said something like, “It’s not good to hear you’re that stressed -how can you change how you’re handling your workload so you don’t feel that way? Is there anything I can do to help?”

        Is that reasonable of me to want?

  202. Anonyby*

    Hi everybody! Just wanted to celebrate a bit!

    So Monday my job duties officially changed (still within the same team, but the bulk of my old duties were passed off to another team member with a lighter load, and I took over using a program that my officemate had been doing, freeing her up to do the thing our team needs to have done that only she can do). There’s been bumps- officemate was drowning with this and had fallen way behind (and wasn’t doing that other part at all), which meant I’m starting in a hole and with fires to put out.

    But I feel really good about what I’m taking on. I’m seeing progress on my efforts to dig out of the hole I started in. And yesterday I had an unexpected fire drop in my lap while everyone I relied on for help was gone for the day, and I got it done! Learned a bunch too! I see myself really enjoying this once it’s under a semblance of control. :D

  203. Stellar*

    I know the meaning of the word has soften, but when my co-worker just said to another co-worker, in his most affected-gentleman voice, “I’ve been meaning to tell you that you look extremely ravishing today. Just wonderful,” I may have thrown up a little. Ravish, of course, being what you do when you take something or someone by force. Admittedly, part of the grossness was in the delivery, but still not a word that fits comfortably in the office for me.

    Any words that the rest of the world commonly uses to mean one thing, but your understanding of it is quite different?

    1. LCL*

      Without looking it up, I remember ravishing as being a britishism for stunning, gorgeous, smashing, etc. Haven’t heard it used that way in awhile. I probably heard it on the Avengers or something.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Even though I’m sure they have the same etymology, ravish does, in fact, mean to take violently by force, but ravishing simply means attractive-looking. That said, I’m not sure why co-workers need to comment about how attractive or unattractive other co-workers are.

      1. Stellar*

        Oh yes, I didn’t mean to say that I don’t understand what definition he was using! However, I could also correctly (though weirdly) say, were I to grab an apple out of your hand, “I’m ravishing this apple from you” and bystanders could later refer to “the ravishing of the apple by that weirdo apple thief.” When applied to a person, both ravish and ravishing are synonyms for rape and raping (and in fact can all be traced back to Latin ‘rapere’).

        It’s my own hang up, but it makes me shudder that a word for rape has come to mean stunningly beautiful (“you look rape-able, darling, simply rape-able!”) and more at the awkwardness of overwrought compliments. I was curious if others are in a similar situation with other words, where you are more familiar with a completely different definition than the common usage and have to put aside your initial reaction.

        1. paul*

          Definitely your own hang up. The word has majorly changed since early modern Europe. I have a few like that and just tryt o shrug and move on.

    4. Gadfly*

      It does carry that extra implication of being sexually attractive (and even a hint of ‘you are so attractive I can’t control myself”) that saying beautiful or pretty or even attractive lacks. I think that it does add some extra ick and even threat above the other inappropriate words that could have been used to make the inappropriate comment.

      1. fposte*

        I’m not seeing the threat, though, any more than “stunning” is a threat. I agree that it’s an extreme observation of somebody’s looks and the whole statement is pretty darn gaggy, but I don’t think that makes it threatening.

    5. Stellar*

      Hopefully this doesn’t double post, but my initial try didn’t show.

      Thanks to all chiming in, but I don’t mean to say that I don’t understand what definition he was using! That would be horrendous. However, I could also correctly (though weirdly) say, were I to grab an apple out of your hand, “I’m ravishing this apple from you” and bystanders could later refer to “the ravishing of the apple by that weirdo apple thief.” When applied to a person, both ravish and ravishing are synonyms for rape and raping (and in fact can all be traced back to Latin ‘rapere’).

      It’s my own hang up, but it makes me shudder that a word for rape has come to mean stunningly beautiful (“you look rape-able, darling, simply rape-able!”) and more at the awkwardness of overwrought compliments. I was curious if others are in a similar situation with other words, where you are more familiar with a completely different definition than the common usage and have to put aside your initial reaction.

      1. fposte*

        But the etymology isn’t “rape-able”–that’s a contemporary misreading. It’s ravish*ing*, not ravish*able*, and it’s the older meaning of “seize” and not “rape” to boot. Historically, it’s about being transported or carried away (seized, IOW) by fierce emotion; look at the early usages where it’s all about beautiful sounds.

        I mean, I get that the divergent etymology means that it’s got some funny relatives (I’m reminded of when I had a discussion on AAM with somebody about rape, and their username, apparently without awareness of the connection, was “Raptor”). But even if it were coming out of the actual rape etymology, it would still be a compliment about looking rapey and not rapeable.

    6. Foreign Octupus*

      My time has come!

      I knew that, one day, my decision to become an English language teacher would be of some practical use.

      Since you understand the definitions as described below, I will tell you that when I talk with my more advanced students (B2-C2) about this word, I tell them that it’s an adjective typically used in literature and in British English. If you’re in America then you don’t typically use it the way we do over in Britain. I also tell them that it’s not a word you’d use to describe strangers (unless you’re talking sotto voce with friends) and it’s not a word you use in a formal environment.

      (My students can be of the opinion that the longer the word, the more impressive and formal it is.)

      So you’re right. Not a word for the office.

      Also, just a creepy thing to say anyway. Did the co-worker ask for his opinion?

  204. zora*

    I know it’s late and this is way buried, but we had a few layoffs at my company this week (just a handful of people, for very specific reasons, I’m not worried about my job) and they are all sending out farewell emails this afternoon.

    One departing person just sent their farewell email, and at the bottom they listed a Bible quote. ……… I mean, just …………………………

    Anyway, that’s all from me. Have a great weekend everyone!

    1. paul*

      what was the quote? There’s plenty of individual quotes in the bible to fit…pretty much anything (it’s a damned big book after all). Simple putting in something like ” A time to get, and a time to lose” is pretty meh.

      1. zora*

        Yeah, true, it just feels weird to me to be like “Thanks everyone, it’s been great, Bye! – GodJesusEtcEtc.” … At work…

        Maybe partly bc most of the company is based in the Midwest and I’m in this aggressively non-Christian bubble of the Bay Area. kind of threw me. ;o)

  205. AlaskaKT*

    Super late for this, but does anyone have any experience with freelancing sites, and actually making a decent income from them?

    Due to my husband recently loosing his job, we currently have zero income, and not much in savings. Luckily we only have $15-30 a month in bills so we can hold on for a while, but not having income is really anxiety inducing for me. Because we live so far from town I have been looking into freelancing, doing blog writing or data entry types of jobs.

    Any site recommendations or experiences/advice would be much appreciated!

    1. Nanc*

      If you’re looking for data entry type stuff you could check with the nearest temp agency and see if they have any work from home opportunities.

      Also, it’s summer! Are there any seasonal jobs? You said you live far from town but if it’s short-term might be worth it. Our county fair hires a ton of temps for the six days–everything from taking tickets to sweeping up to emptying trash. Not glamorous, but some $$$.

      Another not glamorous but viable option–any house cleaning services where you are? They may need on-call folks to cover for vacationers (again, that time of year!).

      Speaking of not glamorous, are you in an area of dog lovers? How about a poop-scooping service? When I worked in higher-ed I had a couple of students who pretty much paid their way by having a poop-scooping business. They charged per dog and broke it down small/large per/hour. You could have them come out once or twice a week or once a month (ew, I know!).

      1. Book Lover*

        I think there is a toddler at home and they really are sort of in the middle of nowhere. Wish I had some ideas :(

      2. AlaskaKT*

        Book Lover is right, by far from town I mean 2-3 hours, with 6-8 hour gaps where I can’t go to/from town due to tides. I’m not sure about temp agencies in this area, but I will look, thanks!

  206. Resi Lence*

    Ack, I meant to post earlier in the day and completely forgot.
    I posted at the beginning of June that I was interviewing internally and seeking advice on what to ask my interviewers (I didn’t want to repeat my questions from my first interview in case it was the same panel). I came up with three questions and got some great information on some behind-the-scenes stuff the organization is currently going through. I’m fairly certain my current supervisor and the other two interviewers were impressed with them because I made it to a second interview (side note: those are atypical for the position I applied for, so it was really neck-in-neck!). I decided on two similar-but-different questions for this one (different panel). An hour after that ended, my supervisor called me.
    I got the job. :)

  207. ca-admin*

    Commentariat, what are your feelings on what office equipment accommodations are reasonable to ask for? What sort of things should an employee provide for themselves? Have you ever bought your own equipment because it was easier than going through the company?

    My specific case: I’m the admin assistant of a company with plenty of money but strict oversight of how it’s spent. The head of HR and Accounting (my direct boss) doesn’t like to give people different equipment because “then everyone will want one.” The last equipment I asked for was an ergonomic office chair, after putting up with a cheap uncomfortable chair for months since my hire date, and I brought in a doctor’s note showing that I have back issues. I was given an ergo eval by a specialist, then given a VariDesk and the same (new) chair as everyone else because “it’s adjustable enough, and if this doesn’t work then we have a problem.” It’s okay but could be better, but obviously I don’t want to cause “a problem” by saying so!

    Now it’s several months later, and I’d like a couple of small things – an ergonomic mouse to help my wrist pain (not new to this job, but exacerbated by some of my duties) and a padded mat to make the tile floor more comfortable when I’m in standing mode. They’re not expensive and I think it’d be reasonable to ask the company to pay for them, but I don’t want to seem like I’m trying to be greedy or a special snowflake – I want my boss to like me! Should I just buy them myself?

    1. Argh!*

      You might want to pick out your ergonomic mouse yourself to test it out, but your IT people may not want you to mess with “their” turf. Could you check with IT to see if there are already some in inventory?

    2. paul*

      I provide my own, much higher quality, kleenex during allergy season. I dont’ give a damn if it’s reasonable or not, I want the soft fluffy for my poor nose. Things that are more durable/non consumable, I’m inclined to at least see if the company will spring for them though.

    3. Undine*

      In my world, I ask for an ergo mouse and keyboard the minute I come on board. My mouse broke a while back and it two two or three months for them to get me an eval and approve it, but I got one.

      There is a range of ergo mouses and some are quite inexpensive, others less so. But even a $100 mouse is ridiculously cheap compared to having you out for a few days with RSI issues. You should test drive them if at all possible; different people like different mouses.

      This does not mean your boss will be reasonable about it, but I think you should find a way to ask. You could say, “I really appreciate the desk/chair, and it has helped, but here are some small things that help even more.” And if he says no, then you can fall back on your own money.

      I have brought in my own saddle chair, because I wanted one but my real chair is good for a chair.

    4. Courtney W*

      I think this varies a lot based on the culture of your specific workplace. Based on what you’ve said about yours, it sounds like these are probably things you’re better off buying yourself.

      Then again, I’m in education, where spending hundreds of your own money on classroom supplies is the norm, so I guess take my advice with a grain of salt.

    5. Chaordic One*

      In the past I’ve worked for nonprofits that refused to purchase equipment that would have made my work a lot easier. I ended up buying ultra fine tip Sharpies, a ruler, and a Heavy-Duty stapler for myself. One of my coworkers purchased an electronic label printer (as well as labels) that connected to their PC.

      If you end up buying your own equipment be sure to label it with your name and to take it with you when you leave. If I were you, I would even make sure that I had saved the receipts from when I bought it.

    6. Kerr*

      My company sounds like yours, and I have the same fears. Go ahead and ask for the mouse and mat! The cost is small compared to worker’s comp, and mats are a standard recommendation to go with standing desks. You may find that the mouse helps with the back issues, too. Since you’re not me, I suggest asking for a better chair despite your fears, but I should probably take my own advice first. (The expensive chair they approved for me does NOT work well, but I’m not sure what to replace it with. And like you, I’m afraid of looking too “special”. But they were actually quick to OK something pricier once I insisted on it, and I don’t think it’s affected how I’m perceived.)

      For the mouse – pick your preferred mouse, and ask IT before bringing it up to your boss? IT might not have them in stock, but they might be more understanding of ergonomic issues, and/or have a discounted supply source. If you’re very lucky, they might even fit it in their budget.

  208. Awkward conversation*

    So I’ve been in my role for about six months and I’m about to have a second interview – it’s an internal one at my company. So I need to tell my manager about it (it’s the rules). I’m looking for thoughts on how to approach this conversation. I don’t want to do a dramatic flounce out because there’s a very real chance I won’t get the job, and I don’t want awkwardness between us if I get rejected. Also I have a lot of issues with my current role which is why I applied for the new one, but I don’t know how to raise them in a constructive manner because they’re essentially core parts of the job (repetitive tasks, monotony, lack of autonomy, unclear success metrics). Any thoughts? I’d like to be as honest as possible because I really like my manager and team, I just feel like taking this role was a mistake!

    1. Overeducated*

      I would focus on what he new role has that will help you reach your long term career goals, not what you dislike about the core duties of your current job. If you don’t get the new one you will be stuck with those for a while regardless so I don’t see how talking about them could help you.

  209. Whisky Ginger*

    I have an awesome temp on my team who has recently moved and now had a 4 hour daily commute. My understanding is that she intends to stay with us. I can’t make her permanent right now for a variety of reasons, but I would love to be able to give her something as a “we value you” token. I’m thinking something that might make her commute better – an audio book? A…. Car…. Thing? Any thoughts?

    1. Daria Grace*

      A subscription to an audiobook site like Audible could be good.

      Also consider less tangible things that might make her work life better. Can you be flexible with her hours to allow her to commute at less traffic jam prone times? Can she work from home a day or two a week?

      1. Whisky Ginger*

        I can definitely be flexible with hours, and have already offered that. She serves (in part) as our receptionist, so WFH is pretty challenging, unfortunately. But I like the idea of trying to find something like that.

      1. Overeducated*

        No, that sounds awful for a city dweller too! But I’ve done a 3-3.5 hour commute as a temp, and sometimes you just need to stick it out until you get a better option. (There were 2 cities in our metro area, the small one where we went to school and the big metropolis, and for a year around our graduations my husband and I couldn’t seem to find work in the same one at the same time.)

        Anything nice you say or do for the temp will be appreciated. Especially go over policy for notifying you and then be understanding if things like extreme weather events or major accidents mess up her commute beyond her control – it’s eventually going to happen to the most conscientious employee with a commute like that and it’s nerve – wracking to fear for your job.

    3. Chaordic One*

      I think that it’s great that you appreciate and recognize her and want to do something for her. A 4 hour daily commute really seems untenable.

      Since you can’t make her permanent, you might consider telling her that you are willing to be an an awesome professional reference for when and if she applies for jobs that are located closer to where she lives. Then when a reference check call comes in, go ahead and give her that awesome reference and recommendation.

  210. Mimmy*

    Is it possible to develop skills in creativity if you don’t have such skills?

    I am a keyboarding instructor for blind & visually impaired adults. My supervisor has suggested that I (as well as the other instructor I’ve been covering for) need to be creative – she wants us to be more like teachers and less like trainers.

    The problem is, I am not an educator by training and I had zero teaching experience when I started this job. I am just not the creative type (I wonder if I led the director to believe that I was…oops). The other instructor is almost the same way.

    Unlike other instructional areas of the center I work at, keyboarding is very straightforward; we use a specialized tutorial that, frankly, I am not too fond of. I am free to occasionally do something outside of the tutorial, but I’m just not creative enough to come up with anything interesting.

    I’m more of a concrete person, so I’m beginning to wonder if this position isn’t a good fit. My supervisors are very pleased with my work (though they rarely see me in action), so that’s not the issue.

    1. Simone R*

      I wouldn’t say concrete and creative are mutually exclusive! You said that there are some things about your tutorial you don’t like-can you change anything? It doesn’t have to be something stunning and different, just better. Can you look at what similar organizations are doing and bring it to yours?

    2. Chaordic One*

      For the most part, I think that what we call “creativity” is just logic applied to particular tasks, so I don’t think you need to overthink this.

      You might consider using different language and using more than one way to describe performing a given task with the keyboard.

    3. Overeducated*

      I think framing it as creativity is not helpful to you – terms that might be more helpful could be teaching methods, adult learning, and participatory learning, if you start looking up pedagogical resources you might find lots of ideas and case studies that would look “creative” to someone who didn’t know you were drawing on things others had developed and tested – lots of success stories shared on blogs, for example. I’m not creative myself and can’t do things like incorporate current pop culture into lessons to make people laugh, but I can use the experiments others have done to find ways to vary from straightforward lectures and instructions and make things more interesting. I’m not in a teaching job anymore but i draw on this background for training staff in my job now.

      This has mostly been for more academic subjects/learning information in my experience so I’m not sure specifically what kind of methods would translate to a keyboarding tutorial. Good luck!

  211. Posting & updates question*

    I’m a little late to this but oh well. I’m a fairly new reader and I really enjoy this site. This question is more for Alison but anyone can chime in if they know. Have you ever decided to post a letter, only to change your mind later and not post it? Has there ever been an update from a letter you posted that you decided not to publish? Is there anything you regret publishing?

    Also, congrats on your book Alison!

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’ve definitely set aside letters planning to respond to them, but then decided not to once I sat down to write an answer (because I couldn’t get inspired, didn’t have anything useful to say, or because answering it would require so many if/then caveats that the answer would be a terrible slog to write and to read). And I’ve had at least one update that I haven’t published because the original letter caused such a crap storm in the comments that I didn’t want to re-open the discussion.

      I don’t think there’s anything I regret publishing, although that’s a good question that I will have to think about!

  212. Gadfly*

    So, I graduated with a BS in Marketing Management recently. As I look at jobs, I’m feeling like I mostly learned theory and not the practical things employers want (familiarity with various programs, experience in actually gathering/obtaining certain data and evaluating it, a sense of industry norms…) and I am struggling with how to obtain that. It appears that one of the best options might be to temp or work at an agency and build up my skills and experience as well as help me better pinpoint what sort of role I want.

    However, I also was diagnosed in the last few months of getting that degree with a brain-ish tumor (no real agreement on how to classify pituitary tumors, it seems). I’m doing well on the meds, but it is something that for a few years (if all goes well) I need to monitor fairly closely–ie, get my labs done and go to my doctors’ appointments. And there are some side effects that can be awkward when they happen (occasional super bathroom urgency, for example.)

    Are my health issues going to make doing temping or working with an agency impractical? I am picturing having to explain things to EACH and EVERY new client. Would I be better off looking for something more stable and seeing if they can work around those issues so I only have to explain it basically once?

    1. fposte*

      Oh, sorry, what a pain to deal with! What you’re describing doesn’t sound like a bar to temping to me–you need periodic doctor’s appointments and occasional runs to the bathroom. That’s a pretty common descriptor. Obviously some of this depends on the convenience of the lab location and hours and the frequency and convenience of your doctor’s visits, but where I live it’s easy for me to get blood drawn before work or slip out at lunch, so that wouldn’t be an issue. If I were you, I might have an elevator speech in my pocket (“It’s a medical thing, a gland thing that needs testing like a thyroid problem, and sometimes I will need to step out mid-meeting so I’ll stand by the door”), but it can be a pretty pro forma one and you might not need to trot it out everywhere.

      Now, if you hate talking about this even once, that’s something to consider; you probably will have to talk about it more than once. I just think that you can get it down to a matter-of-fact thing that from a workplace standpoint blends in with everybody else’s things, so if the workplace is your concern I’d go for the plan you want.

      And good luck! Hope all does indeed go well.

  213. Helena (with a question)*

    So I just started a new job 3 weeks ago and today I got paid for the first time. The offer including 15 days of PTO. The 15 days were on my first pay stub. I thought this was so strange and when I asked about it payroll said they would check with HR to confirm my offer, they thought I was supposed to have more days and the 15 was wrong. They got back to me saying my offer indicated 15 days and asked if I had misunderstood something. When I asked how I could have accrued so many days 3 weeks in they looked at me like I had 2 heads and no matter how I phrased the question when I went to see payroll and HR they just kept telling me my offer had 15 days so they gave me 15 days and that if I had been working here on January 1 the 15 days would have gone on my pay stub then but since I only started 3 weeks ago and this was my first pay they still gave them too me write away.

    No one also had no idea what PTO is. Not my boss, or HR or payroll. I literally was asked “what’s PTO” and then was told over and over that they have never heard of that and it is called vacation days. We don’t have any other form of time off (lieu bank etc) because the company does not allow overtime and he are hourly and only allowed to take days off in .5 or full day increments. We have sick time but there is no number of days in a bank, it is unlimited and they have measures for people who call in sick a lot without medical documentation for some kind of illness.

    The company has 600+ people at 4 locations across the state (a HQ, a warehouse and 2 satellite offices). I’m at the HQ where HR and payroll are also located. Is it just me or is it weird that everyone just gets their vacation days on January 1 for the year, or on their first pay stub? Or that no one anywhere has ever heard of PTO and will act they have no idea what you are talking about unless you called them “vacation days”?

    2. fposte*

      “Lieu time” makes me think you might not be in the U.S., but the stuff you talk about wouldn’t be particularly surprising in the U.S. Some places front-load vacation, especially on hire, and I think a lot of my university wouldn’t recognize the term “PTO”–it’s also a term that we kind of sloppily use in the comments here because companies that use it really mean there is no differentiation between sick and vacation days and they both come out of the same PTO bucket.

      So I wouldn’t be worried about my new job based on what you’ve said.

    3. periwinkle*

      As fposte noted, this is not unheard of in the U.S. I’ve had employers that loaded all or half of your annual paid time off when you first started work, although most did not (possibly because their policies required paying out vacation time?).

      My current employer calls this time off “vacation”; my previous employer called it PTO. Maybe there’s a technical difference in some legal sense, but either way it was defined as paid time off work. If your new company calls them “vacation days”, that’s their vocabulary, so accept it. It would be like me moving from New York to London and then complaining that these people insist on calling those thin crunchy potato snacks “crisps” when I’ve only ever called them “chips.” Crisps, chips, either way they’re delicious.

    4. Overeducated*

      You get your vacation up front instead of earning it bit by bit, and unlimited sick time – this is great! Don’t worry about it!

  214. nep*

    Any of you purposely work part time? Just curious about various reasons people choose to do so.
    An employer emailed me today about a PT job I applied for yesterday — says I appear to have relevant background and asked for references. I’ve got many more years experience than they asked for in one discipline — at the same time I certainly would have a learning curve on some other parts of the job and learn things that would be beneficial and interesting. (I hate to be in ‘I’ll take anything’ mode but some days it feels like that.)

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      My manager does because she has a young child and didn’t want to come back full time.

    3. Medialex*

      I did for the last five years because it gave me time to do volunteer work and focus on side projects but been working full time since I moved to London.

  215. NoodleMara*

    I just want to say thanks for all the excellent advice on here. I’m not actively job searching (waiting until the end of the year so I’d get my bonus was the plan), but I came across my dream job posting today. I already had my resume written and I banged out a cover letter in less than an hour. I’m trying not to get my hopes up but I feel much more confident about job searching now.

    It’s funny how you don’t realize how dysfunctional a workplace is when you first start out but I’ve been here three full years now and ohhhh boy is it secretly dysfunctional. I’ve missed a lot of it because my division is kept a bit apart from the rest but after reading stuff on here, I’m realizing things are not that great there. Like today one of the sales staff got huffy and hung up on me because I didn’t read his mind when he asked for something. I mean. Really. Anyway. Thanks!

  216. Ex-Future EdTech*

    I’m miserable at the moment at not getting anything but a form rejection letter. Applying to 3-5 applications per week since December of last year. I only had one interview. I solicited for my cover letters and resumes. Yet, nothing has improved. I feel like my M.A. and B.A. means nothing. All my work. Nothing matters.

    It’s hard to stay positive and I’m haven’t been able to for months.

  217. emma2*

    Polling managers/bosses: Is it an absolute sin to check a non-work site (like LinkedIn, Facebook, or a news article) in between tasks through out the workday? Not for long enough to waste time, but for like 10 minutes to clear one’s head before it is about to explode (my work tends to be really intense..) Or is this an absolute no-no?

    1. Kinder Gentler Manager*

      As long as it isn’t something I notice as “omg every time I look at your screen you are on (insert non-work-site here)!!” I really don’t care or mind!

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      I think it’s okay to look occasionally if it’s permitted in your workplace, but if you actually want to clear your head, that’s not the ideal way to do it. Take a screen break. Stretch. Do a boring routing job like filling in an expense form or something. Go for a quick walk even if it’s just to the water cooler and back.

    1. Dr. Doll*

      Pretty sure we all think the colleague is ridick (put the emphasis where you will) and HR is worse.

  219. In Pain*

    I’m very late to the party but I have an update. I still get migraines very badly and my managers are terrible and wont change but I have had a breakthrough with pain relief. I find small doses of diazepam will put a migraine back in its box if I get in early. I think it relaxes the muscles in my neck enough to prevent a full blown migraine. So Yay!

    The other thing is that I applied for a job that is quite different from what I do now but uses all my skills and seems very interesting. I had an interview on Thursday, which I think went OK. I don’t have a strong feeling either way on how they found me but at least its a start.

  220. paul*

    work blew up today. Badly. I’m half in the bag right now (yay for sailor jerry’s and dr pepper). I’m not sure what to do. drunk, angry, and achy is a bad mxi.

    The whole department got chewed up one side and down the other. Some of it’s deserved, but I’m pretty pissed at how it was handled (and boss, if you’re here and see this, IDGAF-chew me out monday).

    Several queistions. 1: how do you raise the idea that, while your boss is right about some of the core of the issues, the way they approached it was goddamn *horrible*? I generally like my boss in a lot of ways but she’s been telling everyone they’re going a great job then this happened today and it’s like…OK? You’re mad about shit that you say has been goign on for most of the past year, why didn’t you adress it before your’ ready to explode? Despite this clusterufck, my boss’s been a pretty decent boss in a lot of ways and I don’t hate her, or think she’s crazy, but she messed up here, pretty badly.

    2: Job hutning. My wife’s about a semester and a half away from graduation with another degree. We’re actively looking to move; we’ve been in this city/region long enough we’re just kind of ready for a change. She moved here in elementry school, I moved here in college. Neither of us likes huge cities and the area’s grown a bit much for both of us; the metro area is edging on 200k now and eww, too big. We have been planning to leave psot graduation. Is it worth job hunting now if we’re within no more than 1-1.5 years? Should I suck it up and stay with the halfway decent salary and benefits? Should I just go with a temp agency for a year ? I’ve never done temp work. Don’t know much about it. But I want to transition out of non-profit stuff anyway. I’m tired, my compassion and empathy are bordering on kaput, and I watn a job where you’re not expected to be super emotionally invested all the time.

    1. Ultraviolet*

      Paul, I don’t think I have any advice for you, but I wish you the best in dealing with all this. I’ve read your comments for the past few months (or more?) and you really sound like a good guy. Good luck! There are people here on your side.

      1. Paul White*

        Thanks for that.

        Good’s honestly one of the last words I’d use to describe myself; I try to be ethical and I try to treat people as ends in themselves rather than means to an end (there’s the Kantian influence you bastard Sean) but I’m not always successful in that. and part me reall y doesn’t like me for that. I want to be “good” in whatever metaphysical sense works for my family but I’m not. I’m just a crabby redneck who has read too much and knows how to hurt people if he needs to. The things I’m best at are either unethical or non-marketable or both but I have to provide for my family you know?

    2. LCL*

      Hi Paul. I will try to answer your questions, but my answers are just suggestions.
      1. When things have calmed down with your boss, talk to her. Ask her what is going on. She probably feels like a jerk about blowing up at you all. Her response will give you a much better idea of what you want to do.

      2. Whether you should job hunt depends a lot on the local economy. From my view, I say look to see what’s available. Staying seems like the best short term choice, but only if the job isn’t intolerable. If you are being abused or made miserable you should go. Don’t work yourself to death, I know society rewards men for doing this but it’s not right for men or women.

      3. Stick to caffeine free mixers so you can get some rest. Reeds extra ginger ginger ale is my go to for dark liquor and it is awesome!

  221. Spacecadet51*

    I live in Southern California (originally from San Francisco). The rent is high ($1640) and although my salary is good, it takes literally an entire check to do rent. I anticipate it going up due to the property being sold. My unit now goes for 1900-2100 a month. I am 52 years old and gave up on trying to buy a home, but that feeling is coming back. The problem is its now out of my reach….at least here in California.

    There are a few people I know who’ve moved to Texas. Lately, I’ve been looking and I could buy there. Of course, I’d take a cut in pay, but at least buying a home would be within reach. Has anyone here relocated to Texas from Los Angeles and how did it go in regards to finding work?

    1. paul*

      what part of Texas? We ain’t uniform; El Paso, Amarillo, Lubbock, Houston, Austin, Tyler, Texoma, Abilene…very different places. It’ll be a culture shock, fair warning. Can’t talk about relo’ing from CA though my brother’s family did last year (Kern County area, not LA).

      Dallas is hot job wise but rent’s high by Texas standards. Houston ain’t bad cost wise for a city it’s size but you’ve got hurricanes and tropical storms and the odd alligator in your bar ditch and fire ants. Austin is a damn mess but maybe better than LA infrastructure wise (I’ve only been to LA a couple times and it scared the hell out of me, fair disclaimer-I thought Houston traffic scared me, WTF how do you live like that).

      I love the geography and flora and fauna of the state–we go from sea level on the gulf coast to 8700 feet elevation in parts of the Trans pecos, with everything from swamp to desert to mountains and desert and the high plains…that part’s really awesome. Culturally we range from what I’d call near-Mexican (think the border) to the worst parts of the deep south (think Tyler eastward). I’ve been to parts of the state where being a native English speaker made me a minority but I’ve also seen some sheetheads flying a swastika too…

        1. paul*

          San Antonio would be my choice, personally, just due to lack of hurricanes and (last I looked) cheaper property.

          Some of it depends on what your preferred recreation is. Both actually ahve surprisingly good outdoors recreation options if that’s your bag (it’s mine for sure). Houston’s got more of the opera/ballet/art museum culture, but both have a pretty good history with lots of cool stuff to poke around at, good zoos, good music scenes, etc. I like ’em for that but they’re bigger cities than I’m comfortable in.

          1. paul*

            oh, and Houston in particular is large geographically. It can take a couple hours to drive across the metro area in good traffic, let alone bad. I haven’t lived there in 2 decades though, not sure which suburbs/neighborhoods ar egood for which things anymore. San Antonio is sprawling but not like that.

          2. Spacecadet51*

            I am pretty flexible on activities. Like a variety, but not big on sport type activities. I’ve seen some nice affordable homes in San Antonio. Going to have to visit. Another thing is I’d like to avoid insane commutes. An hour isn’t bad, but anything over that will make me crazy.

            1. paul*

              Yeah if an hoour commute is the limitI’d avoid any jobs in downtown Houston, like within 610. That becomes a damn mess from like 7am-10am and again from 3pm-7pm. Eww. Though eating lunch on the Buffalo Bayou can be *amazingly* nice.

              Both cities have great variety of recreation; I’ve had family in both in the last 10 years but tbh I’m not as close with the SA branch, so I’ve been to Houston more.

      2. paul*

        though, in our defense; the sheets were in a really remote area. I was trying to document a population of Acris there or I’d have never seen them. Mostly that type knows to STFU in Texas.

        I did wish I had granddady’s old M1-it had been a long time since it shot a Nazi and they were definitely being pretty…aggressively hostile. Only time I’ve wished I had more gun on me.

      3. Spacecadet51*

        I hate the traffic and I am from here. Tend to leave early to avoid the crazy folks….takes me an hour. Said that I need to plan a visit to see how it feels. Airline tickets are a bit high right now, but can hopefully visit before end of the year.

    2. OldMom*

      Just wondering have you ever been to Texas? Do you know you like it? If not definitely try it out first. Imho I cannot imagine why anyone would willingly move there (not being drafted or otherwise coerced.) if you are not female or person of color it might be tolerable. But really…just about anywhere in the country short of Hawaii would be les expensive than
      sF. But Texas just… why?

      1. Spacecadet51*

        Yes I’ve been there to visit, but that was ages ago. That’s why I plan on visiting to see if I will like it. Why would my sex or race factor into whether it’s tolerable? Why Texas? Because of the quality of life that can be had. Because I don’t want to spend the majority of my salary on paying rent.

        1. Paul*

          it really depends on what *part* of Texas you’re in. There’s some stuff that’s uniform-ish state wide (abortion rights here suck, everywhere) but most stuff is just really variable. I don’t think that’s unique to Texas either; I mean Bakersfield and San Diego are pretty widely divergent culturally too you know?

          I’ve had run ins; see me mentioning the sheets I ran into…but I get really tired of people acting like all of Texas is like Teneha or Tulia. We aren’t. It’s like people acting like all of CA is LA, or all of NYS is NYC.

  222. CarelessDresser*

    Wardrobe confusion
    I have an upcoming interview with a company in the fashion industry, my role being in IT.
    A mail I got from the recruiter along with material on the company stated that the dress code for the interview was fashionable along with the two worlds NO SUIT in red capital letters.
    I’m a guy in my late twenties who couldn’t really care less about how I look. It’s either a suit for work or jeans and a band shirt when I’m off work.
    What’s “fashionable”? Is there a safe bet here? I’m still thinking suit but replacing the trousers with dark jeans and some colourful socks.
    Any thoughts?

    1. Courtney W*

      My first thought is that you’re not likely to find this company to be a good fit if you couldn’t care less about fashion. Perhaps their IT department is an exception to the rule, but from the sound of the mail you got it seems unlikely.

      Have you searched online trying to get any more info on dress expectations on this company? No suit doesn’t necessarily mean jeans are the best choice – it could still mean dress pants, but with a more trendy shirt. But ugh, I am sorry and do not envy you.

      1. CarelessDresser*

        Thanks for your response; I kind of feel the same way about not being the perfect match though I am quite adjustable (have worked in interior design section which I had no interest in whatsoever to begin with but ended up enjoying it a lot) and have the right skills for the role. Their website has a preparation for interview section where it just says come to the interview in clothes you feel comfortable working in. The “fashionable” part was the recruitment agent’s touch.

        1. zora*

          I think jeans with a blazer/suit jacket is probably a great option. Definitely try to add something quirky like cool socks/pocket square, etc. But for an IT position I wouldn’t worry too much, just as long as it’s not a suit if that’s what the recruiter said, you’re good.

          1. zora*

            Another thought, wear your suit pants with a nice shirt, no suit jacket. Maybe go buy a new shirt, something colorful.

            1. CarelessDresser*

              Thanks for great advice! I was satisfied with the results and the interviewers seemed happy as well. Unfortunately the job turned out to be significantly less interesting than what the initial description was but it was a fun experience nevertheless.

          2. MechanicalPencil*

            A nice colorful, summery pattern would be a good touch. I’m sure a salesperson would be happy to help you make sure the fit is right. And honestly, I bet fit is even more important than what you’re wearing.

            1. CarelessDresser*

              I did wear a summery white tie with pink and blue flowers. Not sure if it counts as trendy but I thought it tied the outfit together nicely.

  223. Physician*

    I’m in an academic medical practice, and being July, all the new trainees have started. We are a fellowship program, so we don’t take people straight out of medical school; they have to have completely 4 years of basic specialty training and join us for subspecialization only. One new fellow for my group is … really struggling.

    Part of the problem is that she didn’t do any of the online training modules, which means she didn’t have IT access to the computer system. She also chose to push her start date back by about 2 weeks, which means she missed most of the “getting your feet wet” time. By contrast, the other two fellows this year were good to go once they got their picture taken for their ID badge; when I started I did the online training from overseas and did the typical start date in last week of June so I could get used to the new system before I had any real responsibility. She’s at 50% clinical load for now, but even accounting for early inefficiencies, she’s unbelievably slow: she was only scheduled for 6 patients on Thursday but only managed to see 4; the clinic’s medical director had to step in to keep things moving. We’re 100% outpatient, so no risk of life-or-death scenarios, but still, making patients wait over an hour is unacceptable. I also found out she isn’t carrying her pager. I don’t know how she made it through 4 years of residency without knowing that you have to carry a pager!

    More problematic, she’s been less than responsive and sometimes downright rude to the admin staff who are trying to get her on-boarded. I had staff come to me and express concerns about her aggressive behavior or not answering emails in a timely fashion. I saw it myself when she told me she just found out about a scientific abstract acceptance (a fantastic honor/opportunity for someone just starting out) for a conference in September, and when I congratulated her, she proceeded to complain that the selection committee hadn’t told her sooner.

    I’m not her manager or a direct supervisor, but I’m more senior and we share an office so she’s kind of latched on to me as the Person Who Will Help Her Out. I ended up spending all my protected research time last week dealing with her questions. I want to try to head this off at the pass; otherwise it will be a very very long year. Any tips or wording for how to approach this?

    1. Blue Eagle*

      “You need to ask your supervisor/manager these questions, they are the ones who are best able to help you.” If you continually answer her questions and help her, her supervisor/manager will not be aware of her struggles. They need to know how her lack of doing the IT work and starting late is negatively affecting her work.

      1. Artemesia*

        This, so much. Stop covering up for her ignorance and make it as visible as possible to the people who have authority over her program. She clearly needs a CTJM and soon from someone in a supervisory role. She has plenty of time to shape up and succeed but that may not be true 3 mos from now.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      “Sorry, I’m on deadline/I really need this time to focus on [whatever project you’re working on], so I can’t help you.”

    3. Observer*

      Stop helping her so much. I don’t mean on things that are normal for someone in that position to need help on. But, things that take up too much of your time, and the she shouldn’t need help on.

      Whether or not she gets fired is not your problem. But, it IS your problem when your research time gets eaten up. So, you tell her you can’t help her, and be consistent about it. If she gets obnoxious or won’t stop you go to her supervisor and explain that she’s wasting your time trying to get you to help on things that are not your job and she won’t let up / she’s being obnoxious and it’s affecting your work. Leave the background issues out – her supervisor should be aware of them and if not should be able to put 2 and 2 together without you. And, from your perspective, it really doesn’t matter.

  224. Cascading C*

    Aaaargh! The whole point of resigning was so I wouldn’t have to deal with any of these people anymore. But they forgot to tell HR and payroll that I resigned and I got sent another paycheck… The fun never stops..

  225. Laura*

    Are these considered “accomplishments”? They’re currently on my resume:

    • Maintained privacy and security while maintaining customer’s confidential information.
    • Received and recorded incoming data into an in-house database system with a high degree of accuracy.
    • Solely responsible for updating and maintaining a back log of data ahead of scheduled target date
    • Performed a variety of administrative functions, including, but not limited to: heavy filing, faxing and copying.
    • Maintained confidential database of members and associates

    If not, then I don’t know what to list.

    1. Reba*

      Yes they are!
      Other thoughts:
      The first and last bullets sound like the same thing–maybe that makes more sense in the context of the job.

      I’d suggest you punch up the bullet points by adding quantities, wider impacts or just some stronger language. For example, just how far ahead of the target date were you? What other impacts did your accurate data entry have–saving time, reducing number of costly mistakes…?

  226. grace b*

    After months working just one on one with another coworker I am finally going back to my regular team on Wednesday!! I cannot wait! Mostly because the workload was so minimal for the last few months which means lots and lots of hours with just my one coworker. He was a bully and I wish I had been more proactive about it. Lots of teasing, needling, commenting on my behavior and telling people, “oh she’s got such a temper!” when a) I’m incredibly soft spoken and I pride myself on being cool, calm and collected at work. I definitely had some moments of frustration and well, he often would tease me about them or make comments about it. Now I get to go back to a busier shift and nicer people and we will be too busy day in and day out to pick on one another. Thank goodness. If anyone has any suggestions for how to handle a coworker like this in the future, I’d sure appreciate it.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      The coffee hasn’t set in yet, this isn’t well formulated. I find that ignoring the behavior and a “really?” with a raised eyebrow can work. Or “ok, so as I was saying…” It really depends on how far this coworker is skirting the line and how far you want to take it. Just a cool, icy stare can also be effective sometimes. There’s also “that’s not appropriate”.

    2. M. Lenox*

      Option A) Document everything! Make sure theere are others around that can attest to his behavior, and if it becomes unbearable, go to your supervisor or his, or possibly contact HR. Option B) He sounds like a sarcastic jerk that’s intimidated by you in someway. Be sarcastic back! Identify his areas of weakness and exploit them in front of others, but do it in a joking matter so that it doesn’t seem malicious. And when you’re working with him one on one, keep everything strictly focused on the task at hand…don’t show any emotion, don’t laugh at his jokes, ignore him like he’s invisible when he makes stupid comments and keep your answers as vague as possible.

  227. When's It My Turn?*

    When, if ever, is it possible to point out to staff what you do for them when it seems they don’t appreciate those things you do (e.g., buy them treats, write notes of appreciation, be compassionate and understanding, give good timely feedback, write them letters of reference, etc.)? If you’ve announced you’re going to bring in something like donuts because the vast majority of the group loves donuts and an employee complains that they would prefer something healthy like fruit, how do you bite your tongue and not say, “Then bring your own damn fruit!”?

    1. fposte*

      I get the feeling, but unfortunately, never. Being compassionate and understanding, giving good timely feedback, and writing letters of reference are the job, and people shouldn’t have to be grateful to managers for doing their jobs. If this is mostly because people bitch about the treats, then consider whether you want to fund treats; also consider that if you bring in treats to please people that 1) you’re never going to please everybody and 2) might be worth bringing in fruit now and then to give the no-donut crowd some joy. Another possibility is to say “Oh, that’s a thought; do you want to handle the treats next time and bring in fruit? We could change to a round robin.”

      But basically, you don’t go into managing with the idea of being appreciated; you go with the idea of being effective and productive. Some people will appreciate you and that while some people don’t. It’s fine to give treats as a thank you or because you wanted some donuts and you might as well share (that’s how I roll :-)), but you really don’t want to fall into the trap if doing it in the hope of appreciation. (See also: parenting.)

  228. c*

    I have a pretty substantial weakness at work, and I’m wondering if others have advice on how to overcome it.
    I *hate* asking people for things. Vendors, colleagues, you name it. Even if I am asking for someone to complete a task that is within the scope of their job, I feel uncomfortable and offer to shoulder some of it myself. If I am offering to pay someone for their services, I put off making the ask. And if plans change slightly (like moving up a meeting time or adding on to an order), I feel terrible about it, like I should have anticipated the change and am now inconveniencing people by asking them to do things differently. Logically, I know that I just need to communicate with people directly and promptly. But I run into this paralyzing feeling that makes me put it off until it becomes an even bigger issue. Argh!

    This is going to become a bigger program as time goes on, because I’m getting to the point where the next professional step for me would involve supervising others, and handling relationships with volunteers and vendors more independently. I need to find a way to get over the anxiety I feel about communicating with people about things I need from them. (For what it’s worth, this is also something I struggle with in my personal life.)

    Although I rarely comment on AAM, I have lurked for years, and I appreciate that the community is full of thoughtful readers. Looking forward to any thoughts you might have!

    1. Colette*

      I used to work with a guy who didn’t want to hand off an issue until he was 100% sure he needed to. That sounds good st first glance, but that sometimes meant the customer waited three or four times as long as necessary to get their issue fixed. He focused on not wanting to bother someone else until he was sure, but he lost track of the fact that the best way to help the customer is to get them to the person who can fix the problem instead of floundering around in an area that he didn’t know well and delaying the fix.

      It sounds like you don’t want to bother people so you do more yourself, but that could very well mean that things don’t get done quickly, or with the same quality, or that you’re robbing someone of a chance to shine.

      It’s not wrong to ask people to do their job. Now, if you’re delaying letting them know of changes, that’s a problem, but if you feel like it’s an inconvenience … well, I don’t think there’s a job out that that isn’t sometimes inconvenient.

      Can you reframe how you’re thinking about this? Therapy might be helpful if you’ve tried and can’t do it alone.

      (I struggle with asking for help, too. Breaking my leg helped a bit, but I don’t recommend it as a solution.)

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Two questions you might want to reflect on. What did you learn about asking for things while growing up? The fact you struggle with this in your personal life too suggests it may have early origins.

      And what are you imagining people think or feel about your requests? In other words, what meaning and significance are you attaching to these situations?

      One further question to get in the habit of asking yourself: what evidence do I have for that?

  229. Lily*

    Wondering if anyone has thoughts or words of wisdom on going back to school (specifically graduate school) to earn a credential that will open up opportunities for a more desirable (to me) position but not a raise. I’m feeling hesitant to take the plunge to even apply to programs because of the money and time required, but on the other hand, I do feel strongly that the career path it would open up is one I’m interested in. (Relevant: This is not a path I can get on without going back to school – it requires a specific specialization within my current field and a professional credential. Self-directed learning could help me grow professionally within this specialization but can’t get me onto the path.)

    1. Colette*

      Can you afford school, knowing that it will not pay for itself? Can you do it without borrowing money?

      If so, go for it – but I wouldn’t take out loans for something that will not result in a higher income.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I’m not sure I agree on that last part. Will it make you happier and more satisfied with your life?

        1. Lily*

          I think so. I’m not terribly unhappy with my current role – which I’ve been in for 3 years – but there are things about it that frustrate me which are not going to change, and while I’m currently managing to deal with those things, I don’t know if I’ll still be so accepting in, say, 5 years. The type of role I’m interested in – the one that’s would necessitate a return to grad school – is basically doing my favorite part of my current job full time (think spout designer rather than general teapot designer).

          1. fposte*

            How long is the grad program and what kind of money would you have to finance? Have you crunched the numbers to see how much this program will cost you including adding in interest over the years and factoring on what you won’t be able to do (like, contribute to retirement) because of paying off the loans?

            I think it’s fine to get another credential that means you’ll enjoy your work more; just make sure you’re not bargaining something else, like retirement before 70, away without realizing it.

            1. Lily*

              I have not looked at numbers in terms of what it would actually cost in my case – just the overall “sticker” price of the degree (tuition + good estimates on fees and books). That was a big scary number, even without considering loan interest, the long term costs of spending the money on the degree versus other things, etc. This is good advice, though, and I appreciate it!

  230. Buu*

    I’ve seen a potentially interesting job ad but I’m worried that I might not be able to do certain aspects of the job due to very minor health issues. Is it OK to reach out before I apply and say ” does job require ability to xxxx”? Or should I Just not mention it unless it gets to interview? The town where the firm is based is quite far away so potential job interviews might be tricky to pull off. I already went through 2 stages of a job interview where I found out it had essential tasks I can’t do, so I’d like to be super sure before I kick off another application…but I’d also not want to blow my chances if I’d annoy the HR person handling it!

    1. Colette*

      I wouldn’t – wait for an interview. They haven’t even decided they want to talk with you yet.

      But if it’s a deal breaker, I think you can ask when setting up an interview time.

  231. AnonInNYC*

    Hey folks. Know this is a bit late, but here goes.

    An ex of mine has been trying to get back in touch with me for years now. We had a really rough breakup, and while I’m not angry anymore, I have no interest in being friends; they’ve burned that bridge way beyond repair.

    But once every few months I hear from them somehow. They ask a friend of mine (who doesn’t know about our history) to talk to me for them, making up some story about how they haven’t heard from me in months and are worried. Or they find my social media on some other site.

    Over the last week I’ve gotten a bunch of LinkedIn notifications that they’re constantly viewing my profile. They have pretty bad anger issues and I’m worried at them lashing out and trying to affect my primary income source. I don’t want to go to my boss or HR or anything, so how should I proceed?

    2. Observer*

      I can’t imagine anything useful coming from going to HR preemptively. I get where you are coming from, but it’s going to sounds rather melodramatic. So, I think your primary instinct is good there.

      What kind of people are your bosses? If someone were to call them and make up a bunch of stories about you, what would they do? If they are decent people, it shouldn’t do you any harm.

      1. AnonInNYC*

        I don’t think going to management or HR before anything happens is a smart idea. It’s just the only idea I have. I’ve never been in a situation like this before. So I was just throwing it out there as the only thing I had, period.

        My management chain is way too busy to care about this, I’d imagine. My company’s pretty big, I’m not particularly senior, and I don’t publicly represent the company. And they like me, too.

        Still, I can’t help worrying, because this has been going on since we were both still college students. I don’t have any hard feelings toward her, I just Want To Be Left Alone.

        1. Observer*

          All you can really do is never respond, never engage and never say anything bad about her. A friend mentions her? “Oh, we broke up years ago, and haven’t spoken since.” Any further questions get a firm “It’s in the past, and I’d like to leave it there.” That doesn’t give anyone food for gossip or anything to report back, either. And if she does call your employer, the fact that you’ve never spent time talking about your “crazy ex” or had any drama makes it far more likely that their reaction would be “Huh? Why would we care?”

          1. AnonInNYC*

            She’s not even “crazy ex” to me, she’s “someone I dated but I’d rather not talk to again.” I haven’t even. Considered saying something like “I will never talk to you, stop trying to contact me” but if years of ignoring it haven’t done anything I don’t think that will. Everyone says stalkers feed off any sort of attention, even negative.

            She’s run out of mutual acquaintances to drag into this, which is probably why she’s moved on to bugging me on social media.

            Even though I’m not at all a public facing person, I am a little worried. Social media shaming has become a big thing over the last 3-4 years, and you can’t really erase anything off of Google. But I’ll handle that if it happens, when it happens.

            1. Observer*

              “She’s not even “crazy ex” to me,”

              That is EXACTLY the tone you want. The less said about her, the better.

              Internet shaming is a real problem. But you really can’t prevent it, beyond not doing anything stupid on line or where you can be recorded.

  232. Cef816*

    Does anyone have any advice on asking to get your own office? Some background: I recently got promoted to a different department within a large company. I love the work, but I’m currently sitting at a desk in an open office/cubicle bay type area. My work consists of writing and editing long drafts, as well as long phone conversations – none of which is easy with ruckus going on around you (even with headphones). We’ve had some department changes, and I now have a new boss. She’s moving some people around, to different cubes and offices, so I think it’s a good time to ask. Everyone else at my level has an office, but I’m worried about coming across as “Everyone else has one! This isn’t fair!” I know there are unoccupied offices on the floor we’re moving to- what’s the best way to convince my boss I need one?

    1. Observer*

      Does your work require an enclosed space a large percentage of the time? Would it clearly benefit? If the answer is yes, then that’s what you tell her. The fact that others at your level get offices comes up only in the context that you know that it’s not a really outlandish thing in your workplace, but you are asking because this affects your work.

  233. Kat*

    Maybe a bit late but if anyone sees this I would appreciate thoughts!

    I am going on holiday next weekend for two weeks. I have quite a bit of tidying up to do before I go and I had intended to finish a few bits of work, including two things my manager asked me to do that relate to policy. I said I would get them to her before I went, i.e. this Friday. However, my time scale is now changed, because last week I had an excruciating leg abscess that I had to get sorted at the hospital on Friday. I had to take Fri off and I have had to also take tomorrow off because of ongoing pain and the fact I can’t sit down yet (and need to go to my check-up to find out if I’m supposed to do normal stuff again yet). I now don’t think I have time to do the two things I said I would. The other work I have to do is more time sensitive as in client-wise, so I need to get that done first, and unfortunately the two unforeseen days off will have curtailed the time I’d factored in for the two things. I need to tell my manager, but I’m worried it’ll reflect badly on me even though my condition was out of my control (and I went into work last week when I was in agony and feeling unwell, just to get as much done as possible). How do I frame this? Will it seem reasonable? I’ll obviously do my best to do what I can but I have to also be realistic. I just feel bad even though I know my health comes first.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      I would definitely let your manager know that your unforeseen health issue has put you off schedule, but that you are certainly doing your best to try to complete as much as possible before your PTO. If you don’t complete everything, how would she like you to proceed?

  234. TSG*

    May be too late to get a response on this week’s thread, but I have a predicament I could use a little help with just in case!

    I’m currently interviewing for new jobs, but I’m about to not be able to take any more time out of my work day to keep doing them. I was very sick early in the year and had to use all my sick days already. I was able to take a few PTO hours here and there lately, but in general, my company is very strict about requesting time off six weeks in advance in advance. They’ve been lenient about it this month, but it was very much a “it’s okay this time” kind of thing and I think it’s unlikely they’ll keep approving it going forward, or it will at least raise a lot of eyebrows that I’m suddenly asking for time off when I pretty much never take it.

    I also used a generic “I have an appointment” excuse, but that may not be much of an option going forward, either. I actually do have very frequent doctors appointment, which my company has been supportive of. I take them first thing in the morning usually, so often I just show up a half hour late to work, but I do sometimes need to leave during the day. So suddenly needing extra “appointments” is drawing attention. I don’t think they necessarily think I’m interviewing places (maybe they do?) but I am worried that I’m starting to look really flaky. This coupled with the fact that I had an actual week-long vacation at the end of June that I booked months before I started job hunting. I’ve been out of the office more in the last two months than I’ve ever been in the last three years.

    Taking long lunches isn’t an option because I often have to travel at least an hour round trip, sometimes more, to these interview locations, and they’ve lasted up to three hours so far. I’m crossing my fingers I just get an offer from one of the two places I’ve already been talking to, but I know better than to put all my eggs in one basket like that. I can’t sabotage my standing at my current job, but I’m also desperate to leave and can’t just put off interviewing for the next few weeks to avoid suspicion. And what do I do if I try to leave or take time off for an “appointment” and they just flat out tell me no?

    1. M. Lenox*

      Talk with the recruiters or whoever schedules the interviews and see if they’ll give you the option of conducting an interview over the phone or via videoconference. That way you maybe able to conduct interviews on your lunch break (in a private location, of course) or you can conduct these interviews after or before work hours (our discreetly do it during work ours and disguise it as a meeting). I know most interviews are scheduled as “in-person” and occur Monday thru Friday ( usually between 8am-4pm), but see if the employer is willing to conduct a weekend interview (i.e. early Saturday morning). Or if all else fails talk to your boss to see if you could change your work schedule based on some “unforeseen family issues”(make something up that sounds believable). You can offer to: come in early and leave early on certain days, work longer hours M-Th and ask for one or two Fridays off as part of “work-life balance”, or if all else fails get a doctor’s note and finagle some time-off, etc. Good luck and hope you get a job offer soon!

  235. M. Lenox*

    I completed my second interview last Tuesday for a utilities job in NY (I currently live in Illinois). At the end of the interview, the hiring manager expressed that he’d like for me to come out and visit the facility and meet the team. Keep in mind, he never expressed whether or not they would pay the travel expenses or me. But he did say that he would be in touch to plan the next steps. As of today, it’s been over a week since the interview and I haven’t received any communication from the company. Should I continue to patiently wait? My intention is to wait until this Friday to send a follow up email asking the current status of the job. Or should I follow up to ask specifically about the open invite they extended to me during my last interview? I don’t want to blow my chances but I really want this job!

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