open thread – October 27-28, 2017

by Alison Green on October 27, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. constipated accountant*

    How do you break up with a bad recruiter? Or is that a bad idea?

    I’m job searching and it seems to be an employee’s market for someone with my background and experience. One particular recruiter that I’ve worked with off and on for about 3 years, has been exceptionally unpleasant. I have continued to work with him though because he is at a very large recruiting firms and has presented me with some promising job opportunities. But he’s been so pushy on any job I show a slight interest in and I don’t feel like he’s listening to what I really want. I want to just end our professional relationship, and so far ignoring his calls and emails isn’t making them go away. Any tips on what to say exactly? Or is it a bad idea in case he has a job that maybe I actually want? There are plenty of other large recruiting firms that have also shown interest in me, and I don’t think cutting ties with this one is a bad idea, but I’m interested to hear everyone’s thoughts.

    1. neverjaunty*

      Unpleaaant, pushy recruiters are bad at their jobs. A jerk is far less likely to hear about good jobs to pass on to you. And you already know that he doesn’t have a fair sense of whether a job would be a good fit for you, he’s just pushing on you so he gets his cut. Not only should you drop him because he’s annoying, he just isn’t going to help you as much as a recruiter with soft skills.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Drop him.

      Just say “thanks for your help, but I don’t need any additional assistance.”

    3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      This sounds a bit like trying to decide when to quit playing the slot machines at a casino. Yes, if I play one more game I might win the jackpot. But on the other hand I’ve already spent all the money I said I’d spend here.

      What are the odds that he will be the only one to hear about the one true perfect job for you? Probably pretty low, so I’d tell him that you’ve decided you don’t need his services and don’t feel guilty about it.

      1. Not Tom, just Petty*

        What’s that called? fallacy of sunken investment?
        Because, yeah, that’s what’s going on here.
        If he’s annoying you, who are paying for his services, imagine the effect he has on people who didn’t really ask for his help.

        2. constipated accountant*

          Good point, but to be clear, I am not paying for his services. He gets paid from clients by placing candidates.

            2. Falling Diphthong*

              Yes, at least half the time that I run across the sunk cost fallacy it’s time and effort, no money involved.

    4. hbc*

      You could try something like “You’ve found me some good jobs and I’d like to keep working with you, but you’re going to have to listen when I say a job isn’t for me. No means no.” I’d say there’s at least a 50% chance he’ll drop you or you’ll still have to cut him off for continuing to be a jerk, but you lose nothing by giving him the boundaries of your working relationship. I’ve absolutely trained some people to know that their high pressure tactics have the opposite effect they’re intending.

    5. Mike C.*

      I’m really skeptical of the advice that goes around saying that you have to treat recruiters with kid gloves regardless of how terrible they are because “you might have to work with them in the future”. That sort of advice doesn’t cut it in plenty of other areas in the professional world, after all.

      If he’s going to suck at his job, then he needs to go. It’s just business after all.

    6. Adlib*

      Usually they leave me alone if I just tell them I’m not looking any more. That at least gets them to back off to very occasional check-in calls.

      1. constipated accountant*

        I’ve talked to a few people in his office and they seem pretty much the same. I’d rather just stick to different recruiting companies.

    9. Terri*

      I’m a consultant and run across a frightening amount of terrible recruiters, one of which I just decided to put a filter on (email and phone) because she was pretty clueless and without tact.

      Nevertheless, if you want to break up with this recruiter and he isn’t getting a clue, you can also call his agency and say that you’d like to be either assigned to another recruiter at the agency or that you’d like to be removed from the contact list.

      And, it’s in your best interest to be in contact with recruiters that you feel comfortable with. Remember, they’re making money off you. There’s no rule that you can’t work with several recruiters at a time.

    10. Gadfly*

      How about telling them “We’ve been working together for three years and we don’t seem to be a good fit. I’m going to try something different and work with someone else for a while. If that doesn’t work out, I’ll give you a call, but I need to do something new at this point.”

  2. Catalin*

    Taking a lunch break: normal, or not normal? Is it a 15, 30, hour long thing and does it always happen for you in your offices?

    2. Catalin*

      I ask because I’ve worked jobs where I was forced to take an hour lunch, a job where a thirty minute lunch break was built into our time (whether we took it or not), and then my current position where lunch is a protein bar while typing at my desk so I work 8 hours straight and go home. (Note, that’s my strong preference. I just don’t want/need a midday break and frankly things here don’t slow down.)

      1. Not Tom, just Petty*

        One of my sisters hates eating at work, like the break room or going out, it’s not relaxing to her. She doesn’t recharge or refresh. She would rather breakfast at home, work, go home and have dinner. So you are definitely not the only one.
        If you are working 9-5, a real 8 hours, it should be up to you. If you are scheduled 8-5 and it’s expected you take a 1 hour break (salary non-exempt) then it might be an issue with your company.

        1. Say what, now?*

          California for instance. If you are non-exempt and don’t take a lunch break it’s automatic overtime. This could land you in hot water with your employer when they suddenly see you costing them more. There was a case like this a few years ago where a woman was fired because she didn’t take a lunch and it was state-regulated.

      3. Been There, Done That*

        My state has laws regarding lunch breaks and I need a meal in the middle of the day. I usually leave the office; if I were at my desk “just eating” (i.e., doing nothing), my boss would expect me to work in between bites even though my lunch hour is unpaid.

    3. Murphy*

      There are many who eat at their desk, but breaks are not uncommon, particularly among the younger people. There are sometimes small groups in the break room, or outside if it’s seasonable. Sometimes people will go out to get something and then eat at their desk too. When people take breaks, they seem to be half hour or an hour, depending. On special occasions, people will go out and be gone longer.

    4. Some Sort of Management Consultant*

      Oh my god, YES!
      (It’s even mandated by law in my country!)

      I don’t take an hour every day but generally around 30-45 minutes at least.

    5. CatCat*

      Normal. Most people that take them here are 30-60 mins.

      Personally, I usually just eat at my desk, but I could go somewhere else if I wanted to. I prefer to take short walk breaks a few times per day rather than a longer lunch break in the middle.

    6. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I’ve always been exempt except for a few retail jobs, so I don’t have a set or even mandatory lunch break. However, I have always taken a break to eat. I don’t usually leave my desk, but I rarely work while I’m eating. If I’m super busy, I might take only 10 minutes, or I might do 5 minutes of eating, 10 minutes of work, 5 more minutes eating. I sometimes eat if I’m listening in on a conference call.

      One thing I don’t do is turn people away because I’m eating. I might say, “I’ll get on that as soon as I finish this salad,” but generally I’m available.

    8. SCtoDC*

      Exempt and non-exempt staff are all given an hour for lunch. I’m exempt, and I try to step away from my desk for at least 30 minutes every day. I usually eat at my desk and then use my time to go for a walk to the Capitol. There are really busy days where I’m just not able to walk away, but those are pretty rare.

      1. Bibliovore*

        Lunch happens when I am hungry and not otherwise occupied. Usually at my desk. Sometimes I bring in food for the students and volunteers and we eat together. About once a semester I go off campus with a few peers.

    9. EddieSherbert*

      My office has a mix (we’re all salaried) – some people eat at their desk and don’t take a break, some people eat at their desk and workout over lunch, some people run out briefly, some do a full hour or more…

      I take about an hour (but I have a dog I have to go let out and give attention to!).

    10. Lil Fidget*

      Office job here. Our non-exempt workers are required to take a 30 minute lunch break. Most take it in the break room or run errands since they don’t want to be pulled into work stuff when they’re not paid for it (fair. I actually thing this system is stupid). Non-exempt workers like me usually eat lunch at their desk and work through it – are responsive to inquiries, emails, phone calls during this time. If I really need to clear my head I go out and get lunch, but have to use my judgement about how long I can reasonably be gone. If I was gone every day for an hour in the middle of the day it would really raise eyebrows here.

    11. KK*

      I take an hour lunch break every day. I’m required to do so. I’d rather take a 30 minute lunch break and leave 30 minutes earlier.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        I have always hated that system! I think it should be the employees choice if they want to work through lunch and leave earlier, or not. A mandatory lunch is kind of yick to me. Plus I always ended up getting sucked into something anyway, so it felt like just a way for them to pay me less.

        1. KK*

          I hate it too! There’s no reason for my booty to be in my chair from 4:00-4:30, when I could just take a shorter lunch and leave at 4:00 (and beat the traffic!)

        2. Here we go again*

          Some states do require a lunch break. In theory, I agree with you, but in practicality, I could see certain industries abusing non-mandatory lunch breaks.

        3. Nervous About This*

          The reason it’s mandatory is because if it isn’t, companies often expect workers not to take it, whether they want to or not. I know if it weren’t hard core mandatory, my job would not be providing lunch breaks at all. And if allowing a lunch break was mandatory, but taking it wasn’t, my managers would definitely look down on and give fewer hours to any employee who took lunch breaks. So the State put its foot down.

        4. Me Again*

          In my state, I can waive it with a form. One place I worked asked us to, but fed up every meal and snacks, so we were OK with it. It is a good system.

    12. Elizabeth West*

      Most of the office jobs I’ve had gave an hour unpaid lunch break. Retail, food, and factory work–a half hour. I’d rather have an hour. At OldExjob, I used my lunch breaks to write. My state does not have mandated breaks, so at Exjob I skipped lunch and just took a couple of breaks in the morning and afternoon so I could work 8:30-4:30 and avoid the worst of the rush hour traffic.

    13. LaurenB*

      Normal in my office. We have an onsite gym (it’s a college) and staff members are strongly encouraged to take part in lunchtime fitness activities. We get a half hour paid and a half-hour unpaid break, so most people just take an hour at lunch.

    14. TotesMaGoats*

      Depends on the day. Super busy-eating at my desk. Not so much-30-45 minutes with the lunch group in the office of the boss.

      Today? Hitting up the Greek Food and Culture Festival that I can see from my office window. SCORE!

    15. paul*

      ours is a default of an hour, and it’s pretty normal to take it. You can certainly move it around a bit or skip it sometimes, but you have to arrange for coverage.

    16. Mints*

      I’m in an office but most people are hourly so we need a half hour by law (California). Most people take an hour though and the leaving vs desk vs break room varies a lot

    17. Dawn*

      My company expects us to be here at least 8.5 hours, including a lunch break. I’m salary so whether I really take a lunch is up to me. I usually take about 45 minutes. I figure my colleagues all take smoke breaks, so I can have a slightly longer lunch.

    18. Tableau Wizard*

      I eat lunch at my desk and usually don’t count it against my 8 hours. So i’ll get in around 8, eat lunch around noon – usually eating while working or discussing work stuff with coworkers, lasting 15ish minutes, and then leave around 4.

      1. Tableau Wizard*

        Once or twice a month, we’ll decide to go offsite for lunch – usually for a special occassion or an exceptionally bad day that we need to overcome. If we go offsite, it does usually last about an hour, but I’m salaried so I don’t necessarily stay late that day. It’ll all even out by the end of the week.

    19. Jadelyn*

      Half an hour minimum, by law (I live in California). Many people take a full hour, and at my current employer they don’t particularly care whether you do 30 or 60 minutes, as long as you take it by the end of your 5th hour of work (again, CA law) and fully clock out when you take it, and for tellers as long as the teller line stays covered sufficiently, it’s up to you. I choose to take 30 minutes because I eat quick, and I’d rather sleep an extra 30 minutes in the morning and still get to go home at 5, so I work 8:30-5 instead of 8-5 or 8:30-5:30.

      1. pumpkin spice.*

        I work at a job that doesn’t have set hours – I work in a technical role at a huge global software company, we have unlimited untracked PTO that we manage on our own and we don’t have set hours we’re supposed to work, no one manages my time or tells me what to do but I have certain responsibilities that mean I rarely take breaks other than running to the bathroom, grabbing a coffee or snack to take back to my desk, or stretching my legs when I need to. We have a project load that should theoretically take 40 hrs a week but most of us work 50+. Lunch break is abnormal where I work because many of us are on calls/video meetings mid-day every day because our location is in the middle time zone between bay area colleagues and India colleagues. I make over 6 figures and have plenty of time off that should (in theory) balance out my long work days. Spoiler alert, it doesn’t – but the money makes up for it. Lots of different types of jobs out there, no need to be baffled by something that’s different than yours!

    21. Beatrice*

      I used to never take a lunch break – I’d just eat a granola bar or something at my desk. I preferred to work without stopping. About six months ago, I got a dog, and started running home at lunch to let him out and eat an actual meal. It’s become a part of my day that I look forward to.

      About once a month, someone schedules a meeting I can’t miss over the lunch hour (grr). Then, I often wind up skipping the meal (unless lunch is provided at the meeting, but it often isn’t, double grr), and just taking 20 minutes at some point in the middle of the day to run home and let the dog out.

    22. Interested Bystander*

      I take a lunch break about once every other week. If I work through lunch, it means less evening overtime, and I’m exempt, so it’s not even paid overtime.

    23. AdAgencyChick*

      It’s normal, but that doesn’t mean people respect it. Can’t count how many meeting requests I’ve declined because if I accepted, I’d have meetings booked from 12-3 and none of them provide food.

      Depending on how much political capital I have with the person whose meeting I’m declining, I’ll either tell them flat out it’s because I need to eat, or just say “I’m not free at that time” and offer other times that I am free.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Also, it’s sadly normal in my line of work for some people — especially those in account management — to put off eating until 4 or 5 PM because of meetings. No way, Jose. I eat lunch by 2 or your copy doesn’t get written.

    24. Lynn*

      There’s a half hour unpaid built into our schedule, but we can take up to an hour since in our position we largely manage our own time and don’t take other breaks during the day. I usually don’t take a lunch break when I’m working from home – just snack at my desk – and I use it to run errands, take a walk, or shop when I’m working from the office.

    25. Persephone Mulberry*

      In my office we have the choice of working an 8 hour day with no formal lunch break or 8.5 hours with 30 minutes unpaid. I opt for the shorter day and grab a bite as my workload allows.

      (My state mandates that employers offer a lunch break but does not mandate that they be taken.)

      1. Decima Dewey*

        The City of Philadelphia explicitly says that employees can’t skip lunch and then go home a half hour or 45 minutes early. You’re supposed to take a lunch, and if you don’t, it’s on you. Some managers won’t let staff leave the branch during the 15 minute breaks we’re allowed (one in the morning and one in the afternoon).

        1. Bibliovore*

          Ah yes. My first library position we weren’t permitted to leave the building except on lunch break. I was having grade-school flashbacks.

    26. SMT*

      In my office I have an hour – sometimes I take less to leave early (with permission), and sometimes it goes longer if a few of us go out to eat (including my boss – it’s a small office). We don’t really have a break room, although sometimes people will sit in the conference room to eat together. I typically eat at my desk and watch a show on Hulu and/or work on some personal projects. Sometimes I use 30 minutes or so to change and go for a run or do a core workout near my desk while the office is empty.

    27. Zip Silver*

      I don’t eat lunch (or breakfast for that matter) but don’t expect my staff to only eat one meal a day because I know I’m weird. I normally give them an hour, but they’re all non exempt hourly, so I really don’t care how long they take so long as their work’s done and they don’t go into OT.

      1. Zip Silver*

        *unpaid lunch break, btw
        There’s no state legal guidance on breaks, which gives them a little more flexibility

    28. BlueWolf*

      I’m salaried, non-exempt with a set start and end time. My day includes an hour lunch, so I usually eat and then go for a walk for the rest of the time. I suppose there are times I could work through lunch (and log the extra time on my timesheet), but I haven’t really needed to do that. I personally like the break during the day to refresh and de-stress. Others in my department are salaried, exempt and sometimes work through lunch or take a short lunch if they have a lot of work.

    29. hermit crab*

      Definitely not the norm in my office! Some people take an actual break and eat lunch in the kitchen on a regular basis, but it’s more popular to eat at your desk while working so you can bill the time (or, if you are actually taking a break, to at least look like you are working/be available for urgent messages). Plus we work with people across a bunch of time zones, so I often have conference calls scheduled across normal lunch break times.

      A few times a year, I’ll go out for a sit-down lunch with coworkers, but it’s a special occasion thing like on someone’s first day.

    30. KatyO*

      Depends on the position. Hourly reps in our office have to clock out for a while hour lunch. Those of us that are salaried? It’s kind of a free for all.

    31. peggy*

      It should be normal, but for me and my coworkers, we’re too busy. We grab a salad or sandwich somewhere or grab our own food from the fridge and eat at our desks, mute/turn off our cameras for phone or video calls so we can eat while in meetings, etc. I know it shouldn’t be like this but if I take 30 min to take a walk or run an errand or read a book, I feel GUILTY for being away from my desk. It’s stupid. I work at least 50-60 hrs a week and feel guilty for taking time to myself between the hours of 8-8. Dumb, and it’s only hurting myself. The company would NEVER want us to be this way, but it’s dept. culture. No one takes a real lunch.

    32. D.W.*

      I take an hour break every day. I don’t always eat. Most days I use it to run errands, take a walk to just get out, or just sit with the sun on my face.

      I eat at my desk.

    33. Anonymous Engineer*

      It’s pretty split where I work – I’m an onsite contractor at a manufacturing facility (but I have an office job, and I’m salaried/exempt). There’s a good mix between people who go out for lunch regularly (typically under an hour) and people who eat at their desks. I usually eat at my desk (and work while doing so) so I can work a shorter day and get my long commute over earlier. About once a week I go out to run errands or have a group lunch with people on my project team.

    34. Princess Carolyn*

      Short answer: normal.

      At most of my jobs, I’ve been expected to hang around from 8 to 5, regardless of my lunch situation. Usually that meant taking about an hour for lunch; sometimes it meant eating at my desk and clocking 9 hours instead of 8. Working through lunch and leaving an hour early has never really been a thing at my offices.

    35. Annie Moose*

      I’m salaried/exempt and nobody cares. Some people in my office take a daily one-hour lunch. Some people always work through their lunches. I think most people are like me–we sometimes take a break, sometimes don’t, depending on how we feel and how soon we want to leave that day. If I do take a break, I usually don’t go over a half-hour.

      Today, for example, I ate at my desk. It’s raining outside and I didn’t wanna go out!

    36. Red Reader*

      Our schedules are written to be 8.5 hours to allow for a 30 minute lunch. In practice, sometimes I don’t take any lunch and just work the whole 8.5 and sometimes I take an hour. It balances out and nobody. minds.

    37. I'd rather be blue*

      Normal and healthy! We get 30-90 minutes at my current place of work, though I seem to be the only one who leaves to eat regularly. I don’t like eating at my desk and I really need some midday sun, exercise, and fresh air. It’s actually a pet peeve of mine when people never take proper breaks, as I feel like it makes it easier for management to justify cutting into that time and other boundary violating stuff related to hours. I also feel like it makes our contractors and other hourly temporary staff feel awkward about taking their proper breaks if they don’t see senior staff doing the same.

      I couldn’t work at a place that didn’t value and protect some sort of lunch break. I get really hangry and my brain will take a break mid-afternoon whether I want it to or not. I also deal with health issues that get worse if I don’t make time to eat a healthy, properly timed meal, get fresh air, and move around a little bit. I firmly believe that a proper break where people disconnect from the office for a bit actually helps with productivity and morale. Also, honestly, some of the worst people I’ve worked with have been the ones who chain themselves to their desks all day and night without proper breaks or meals. That behaviour tends to go hand-in-hand with office martyrs and others with poor work/life balance and boundaries.

    38. WellRed*

      Slight tangent: I have a coworker who was one of only 3 non-exempt employees at her last job. The company didn’t allow those employees to leave the work premises. I can’t remember the reasoning. If they forgot a lunch, a manager would go pick it up for them. Needless to say, she leaves the office every single day for lunch here.

    39. NeverNicky*

      Hour unpaid here (UK). There’s a very positive lunch culture in my (small) org – if you don’t leave your desk, you get, “Aren’t you going out today?” from at least one person.

      I work remotely now and try to take an hour myself but it doesn’t always happen as the office based team do phone as they can’t see me eating!

      Exceptionally if I am on a roll writing I work through lunch but I will take off the time later.

    40. Jake*

      That is so dependent on the office. I’ve worked non-exempt where I had a mandatory unpaid 1 hour lunch, an exempt position where a 30 minute lunch was expected but never really attainable, an exempt position where a 1 hour lunch was expected but was commonly interrupted by fires to put out, and an exempt position where lunch was a fantasy.

    41. KMB213*

      This has really varied by office for me – in my current position, I’m exempt and can somewhat make my own hours, but our “open hours” are M-F 8:30 – 5:30. We’re allowed to arrive a bit late or leave a bit early, but if we arrive late, we’re expected to stay late and vice versa. You’d think that would mean an hour lunch break is built in to our days and, according to official policy, it is, but, if it very frowned upon to be gone for an entire hour at lunch, or even to spend time at one’s desk eating, but not doing work for an hour. I usually take a half hour break anyway each day, but sometimes just take an hour and ignore my coworkers’ negative reactions (my boss is rarely in the office to see what we do for lunch). If it meant I could leave early, my preference could be to work through lunch, or at least to only take 30 minutes.

      In my most recent past job, I was exempt for part of the time and nonexempt for the rest – we worked 9:00-5:30, with an hour lunch built in (so, 37.5 hour weeks). The culture in that office was quite different, though, and nearly everyone took an hour for lunch, either leaving or eating at their desk (there wasn’t much of a break room). Longer lunches were common, as well. We were also allowed to forego lunch and leave early/come in late on an occasional basis. It really was a wonderful place to work in terms of schedule flexibility. I really miss it!

    42. QuiteContrary*

      I get an unpaid hour, so I always take it. I like to get away from the desk and, on nice days, the office, and go for walks, or read in the park right behind my building. If the weather is bad, then I sit in the lobby and read. I don’t get paid for that hour, I ain’t going to work during it.

      Fortunately for me, my boss doesn’t care if I occasionally tack that unpaid hour at the end of the day to leave early for doc appointments. I recently had surgery and have had several doc appointments, and since I started a brand new job right before the surgery, I had no time off. So any time I take off, I take unpaid, so it really helps if I can ‘save” that lunch hour to the end of the day, coupled with appointments scheduled at 4 or 4:30. “It’s a huge no-no with HR,” she told me, “so don’t let anyone know, but I don’t care if you do it.” Once I get all these follow-ups out of the way, I’ll stop doing it. I need that midday break, just to get away from the computer.

    43. Red*

      I insist on a lunch break, but I have an hourly job where I literally run around a hospital all day. My other coworkers just take lunch in-between calls to deliver meds for reasons I will never understand (because they complain bitterly about it when interrupted), but I absolutely insist on a lunch break. It’s required by law *and* our union contract, for crying out loud! In our job, we are expected to have a 30 minute lunch (required) and two 15 minute breaks (if time permits), and that’s exactly what I do. So, it’s not normal in my department, but I do it anyway and no one gives me any side-eye because they know they are entitled to the same.

    44. kas*

      I have an hour lunch but I usually always leave the office during that hour. I usually eat at my desk and then run errands or just park somewhere and chill for the hour. I do skip my lunch sometimes if I’m super busy – I’d rather skip lunch and leave on time instead of taking a lunch and then working late.

    45. Lemon Zinger*

      My state does not mandate lunch breaks so there are days when I am too busy to take a lunch and am forced to work through it. Although my department has a lunch “policy,” it is not a rule so we are not guaranteed any breaks. I work around 50 hours per week right now.

      When I can, I ALWAYS take an hour lunch and get away from the office if I feel like I need to.

    46. nacho*

      All of my jobs I’ve had scheduled lunch/dinner breaks: 30 minutes when I worked 8 hours, and either an hour or two separate half hours when I worked 10 hours.

      These are call center jobs though, where everything’s scheduled. I don’t know how it works in more flexible offices.

    47. MissDisplaced*

      Ugh! My job now is 8-5 with a supposed 1 hour lunch.
      But I find 1 hour too long! I’d rather do 30 minutes and leave at 4:30.

    48. Audiophile*

      My office automatically deducts a one hour lunch from each work day. I usually take a half hour. More recently, my co-workers and I have been grabbing lunch nearby and eating together.

  3. Frustrated Optimist*

    Has anyone ever heard of the concept of “keyword stacking,” for use on LinkedIn? Dr. Karen Gurney has an extensive web site and book on the subject. She is saying that by putting these keywords into your LinkedIn profile, employers (recruiters) will come to you (as opposed to you having to apply for jobs with them).

    I admit that I have not delved fully into it, but I think that’s in part because I am picking up that this is some kind of gimmick. She also talks about the “hidden job market” etc.

    Any thoughts?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t know. I have a certain keyword in my LinkedIn profile that attracted a recruiter, and I really wasn’t interested. I think attracting recruiters on LinkedIn could lead to good opportunities, but it could also lead to a lot of spam.

    2. neverjaunty*

      I wonder where her degrees are from? Her website doesn’t say.

      This sure sounds like a gimmick.

      1. SC in NC*

        She received a BA from Ohio University although her LinkedIn page does not include in what discipline or year. Her MBA and PhD were awarded by Cleveland University in 2004 and 2012, respectively. Not the most prestigious school but certainly not a diploma mill.

    3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Sounds like a gimmick to me. Sort of like the old advice to put all the keywords from the job ad in white text at the bottom of your resume so that you make it through the automated system to a human.

      1. Say what, now?*

        The phrasing brought that advice immediately to mind for me too. Imagine the embarrassment of being asked a pointed question about those keywords and then having to admit that you just thought it would get attention to your profile to include them.

    4. Sigrid*

      Gimmick. The “hidden job market”, insofar as it exists, is jobs that are offered to people in the hiring manager’s network and never opened up for general applications. “Accessing the hidden job market” is working your network. Any kind of “trick” that promises to short circuit normal hiring practices in ways other than working your network is, at best, a gimmick, and more often a scam.

    6. Adlib*

      I’ve noticed some people put keywords in their intro. Specifically, I’ve seen two people do a list of specialities which strikes me as odd. I think most messages I’ve gotten about jobs have been related to my current or previous job titles, but that’s about it.

    7. FormerRecruiter*

      I used to be a Corporate Recruiter for a large international engineering firm, and there is some truth to using keywords in your profile. I used LinkedIn Recruiter a lot to source candidates for my open positions. I would often use industry keywords to search profiles and those with the most matches came up at the top of the list. I’d reach out to those people first before moving further down the list.

      Most of the Recruiters in my industry use LinkedIn Recruiter to find candidates because it is a highly competitive market with a limited amount of talent. It really depends on the industry you are in.

    8. BlueWolf*

      Hmm, interesting concept. I’ve noticed since I started a new position that I have gotten recruiter messages pretty regularly on LinkedIn. My particular position in this industry is apparently really in-demand in my area, so just by virtue of having my job title and basic job description I show up in a lot of searches. I didn’t make a conscious effort to use keywords though.

    9. CAA*

      Well sure, if I’m searching a site like Indeed or LinkedIn to find people for a position I’m trying to fill, I use the required skills from the job description as search terms. It is more likely that I will find you if you have mentioned those same skills somewhere in your profile. Hopefully that is obvious.

      I’m pretty flexible too. Unless I’m looking for experience in a very specific software package, I’ll search multiple times with as many different keywords as I can think of. E.g. I can look for various combinations of RDBMS, Oracle, SQL, MySQL, database performance tuning, big data, Hadoop, etc. There’s no need to contort your achievements to get all of the possible words that a recruiter might use onto your profile, and there’s especially no need to create a gigantic list of words that are mostly synonyms.

    10. Story Nurse*

      I don’t know from LinkedIn, but when I was advertising my freelance editing services on the Editorial Freelancers Association directory, my profile was basically all keywords (genres and types of books I edited, types of editing I did) and I got a ton of business from it, enough that I almost never had to go out and look for clients. I also still get recruiter emails about medical writing even though I haven’t done it in years, probably because my LinkedIn page lists my medical writing and editing experience. So it definitely does work for certain fields where skilled workers are in high demand, but I can’t imagine it’s universally applicable.

    11. Mandy*

      I am not actually familiar with her work, but it strongly reminds me of my days in SEO related work and all the gimmicks people heard would work to influence your search engine rankings. Some of the ideas were legit, some were outdated and some were just flat out scammy.

    12. Frustrated Optimist*

      Thanks, everyone for the feedback. It’s interesting to read all the different perspectives. I have her book – it was a free download for Kindle, and I think I need to read a little further into it. As I was saying, I’d been a little put off by the gimmicky feel to it, but maybe there are some useful hints. Thanks again!

      1. Say what, now?*

        Wow, you have patience. I doubt I would have given the benefit of the doubt once I felt the gimmick vibes. But for your patience and BS-sifting you might be rewarded with a truth nugget.

        1. Frustrated Optimist*

          I have had an extremely frustrating job search experience for almost 2.5 years. (Thankfully, I am still employed.) At this point, I feel like I can leave no (reasonable) stone unturned, so that’s where the patience comes in.

    13. Anon anon anon*

      I have seen a hiring manager do keyword searches on LinkedIn, looking for people with certain skills. It wasn’t anything mysterious. Just looking for people with experience in a certain combination of things.

      I didn’t look up the person you mentioned, but it sounds scammy.

    14. MillersSpring*

      Keyword stacking is ridiculous. Your LinkedIn profile should have well written descriptions of your responsibilities, achievements and skills. Use keywords naturally in those descriptions; a list of words and phrases tucked somewhere looks weird.

    15. Fact & Fiction*

      I start my new job tomorrow, returning to working as an SEO content writer for a large global company’s websites, and one of the books I’ve been reading to brush up on things is focused on Linkedin. The author does discuss making sure you use strong, relevant keywords that your clients (or recruiters) would sway for to find someone with your particular skill set. But like any GOOD online content writing, it must be relevant, natural, and gimmick-free.

  4. Jimbo*

    Anyone out there who work for temp agencies and recruiting firms? I have a question about submitting resumes in the recruiting agency’s online portal.

    What do you think of adding an additional page to a resume that details a short narrative about your strengths and specialties — similar to what a cover letter would serve in a traditional job application?

    All of the online portals for temp agencies and recruiting firms I’ve encountered ask for a resume only, which I’ve provided. But I am aware that my chronological style resume and recent jobs I’ve had might not fully highlight the types of jobs I can do, especially for temp and freelance work.

    For example, my resume is heavy on digital project management and web content management. Many of the temp and freelance positions are for web content editors, writers and print/web proofreaders. I am also willing to do support work for content migrations for ongoing web redesign projects. I’d love to get noticed for these as I’ve done these types of projects in the past and am willing to do them freelance.

    Any recruiters or temp agency staff out there willing to give some tips and feedback?

    1. Helpful*

      Could you add an objective-live statement at the top that highlights what you think they want to see? Or switch from a straight chronological resume to a “related experience” and “other experience” to highlight your strengths?

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      For temp assignments, the clients are typically looking for someone who already has the experience. In your situation, the easiest solution might be to send them two versions of your resume – one tailored for digital project mgmt and the other for web design projects. That way they can send whichever is most applicable to the position for review.

    3. TempRecruiter*

      Temp recruiter here – I tend to ignore cover letters, but I think a quick note on a separate page can be helpful. It probably depends on the agency you’re working with, but my agency does perm and temp staffing, so I love when there’s something indicating a candidate is looking specifically for temp work, especially if it’s maybe different than their resume (for example, an opera singer saying they are looking for temp receptionist work is more useful than just getting a resume for an opera singer with no idea what they’re looking for). I do also like the idea of 2 different versions of your resume, depending on the types of contract roles your targeting.

  5. Lauren*

    New job has a really well-stocked/organised stationery cupboard. I’m slightly obsessed with it.

    (Half the time I don’t actually need anything, I just…like looking at stationery. Well-meaning colleagues would come over and ask if I needed help finding something and I’d have to make something up. Awkward.)

    5. Rose*

      Just got our admin to start stocking my favorite erasable pen. I just love going into our supply cupboard and seeing all the neat bins of highlighters and Sharpies.

        1. JulieBulie*

          If you mean erasable pen (as opposed to erasable highlighter), I find that the black Eraser-Mate isn’t too bad. (The blue one doesn’t write as smoothly and doesn’t erase as well.)

        2. Rose*

          Oh yeah. Frixion. They’re not perfect, but they’re so much better than the ones I remember from school!

          (Though I find myself sometimes erasing not because my schedule changed, just because I didn’t like how I wrote it in my planner the first time.)

          2. Janelle*

            I have to write in pencil in my planner for this reason. Also because I am so OCD that if something changed I cannot handle it just being crossed out.

            1. It's-a-me*

              I love crossing things out, makes me feel like I’ve achieved something – even if the reality is that I made a mistake and wrote the same thing again on a separate line.

      2. Lilly Puddle*

        I second King Friday XIII’s question. Is it Frixion, or is there a better one out there? Someone else mentioned an Erasemate. Has anyone tried both and could give us a comparison?

        2. JulieBulie*

          Frixion is probably better, just because it’s much more recent, but I can’t say for sure myself. My only experience with Frixion was with the highlighters, and I didn’t like ’em, so didn’t try the pens.

    6. JulieBulie*

      Yeah. Some people like going to a museum to look at exhibits, or going to the zoo to look at animals. I like looking at office supplies. I wonder if there’s a market for office supply pr0n.

      1. King Friday XIII*

        There definitely is, especially if you’re into planners. There’s Etsy stores that sell all kinds of personalized printable layouts, folders and landing pages for binders, custom notebook covers…

        1. Rose*

          I’ve fallen hard for my Nomatic planner, which has time blocking and goal setting, and I actually have seen my numbers tick up at work in the six months I’ve been using it to manage my day. I’m a convert, but I sometimes wonder — is it unprofessional to have something so bright and colorful out on your desk? I’m not talking full-on Instagram layouts, but for instance, this week I have a sticker for pumpkin carving, a vampire for a Halloween party, and a dog bath sticker in between all my tasks for work.

          2. JulieBulie*

            I have a bunch of action figures and happy meal toys in my cube. They are bright and colorful. If you sat next to me, I’m pretty sure no one would notice your planner!

            It probably depends on where you work. But I would think more people would just say “Rose likes colorful stuff” and not think anything more of it.

            1. Rose*

              Hah! This is a good point: no one’s said anything about the Captain America Pop Funko on my desk, or the poster-size Matt Fraction Hawkeye comic … so yes, I’m probably good. :)

          3. Detective Amy Santiago*

            I don’t think there is anything inherently unprofessional about bright and colorful, but it probably depends on where you work. I’d think it might be a little inappropriate in like… IDK… a funeral home?

            I got the Sarah Scribbles planner. It’s amazing.

            1. Rose*

              I would love to have a thread of users here sharing 1) their planner set up and 2) what tips and tricks they used to stay organized. I assume the vast majority of AAM readers use Google or iCal or Exchange to manage their time, but there’s something deeply satisfying to me about plotting my week in pen and ink.

              1. King Friday XIII*

                You should bring it up on the weekend open thread! I’m a hardcore bullet journal guy myself and I love my fancy notebooks.

                1. Rose*

                  That might be a reason to stop by on a weekend! Usually I try very, very hard to disconnect from my devices when I leave the office on Friday so I can focus on my family, friends and dog.

      2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

        I’m not sure if it’s updated all that often anymore, but check out diyplanner dot com. All kinds of amazing ideas on there the last time I looked.

    7. JD*

      Oh if only you could post a pic. I so love office/school supplies and organization. Mmm… Don’t even get me started on the smell of a new box of Crayons….not that I have any use from crayons anymore in life.

    8. Ninja*

      In that case, check out Bureau Direct – you can waste HOURS there looking at pen and inks (ask me how I know)!

      1. MissMaple*

        Oh dear, I know what I’ll be looking at snuggled up with my laptop this weekend! It’s a good thing I’m saving for a trip right now or this could be really dangerous for my newly organized work-at-home space :)

      2. Cristina in England*

        Ugh, the Bureau Direct website never works for me on iOS. I love Cult Pens though, and Jetpens.

    9. only acting normal*

      I am… jealous.
      Work has stationery cupboards, they were never fabulous, but recently they’ve cut way down on what is in them (money saving). Now there’s just a box of biros, a box of highlighters, some straggly elastic bands, generic sticky notes (yellow only), a few envelopes and some spiral bound reporters notebooks, plus a lot of empty shelf space. It’s really kind of depressing. :(

    11. Chaordic One*

      I can so relate. If the cupboard ever gets disorganized, I straighten everything and put it back in its place. I’ve been known to straighten shelves in stores when I’m shopping.

  6. Sunflower*

    How much do you tell your grandboss about your unhappiness at work esp.when you’re job hunting and there’s very little they could do to keep you? My grandboss has been here for a while and I really like her and trust her. My new boss started about 2 months ago. My grandboss would like to have a one-on-one check in to see how things have been going since my new boss started.

    Some things have come up that make me believe my new boss doesn’t trust me. I travel almost every week to a different office in a different city that I have asked to move to several times. Everyone thinks my job should be in this office, all my contacts are in the office but it’s been turned down for compensation reasons (higher cost of living). My boss said other people at the company think we are using work travel for personal reasons and she doesn’t want to give off any wrong ideas so to make it easier, we must now leave the office as soon as our work is done. Sometimes I work out of that office to the end of the day and grab dinner with a friend- i would never, ever charge things to the company that are not valid work charges. I am the only person who travels there this much and can’t help but take this personally and feel as if my integrity has been brought into question.

    This is really bothering me as I didn’t receive much information beyond the above. There are some other issues and the only thing at this point they could get me to do to stay is transfer me to this new city but I don’t think we would agree on salary. How do I bring this up in a way that doesn’t accuse or blame anyone? While I’m still here, I just want to feel like I don’t need to be watching my back and that my boss trusts me but at the same time, I hate giving up the one perk I feel I have at my job still.

    1. Lucky*

      Your Grandboss has asked for feedback, and you’re to the point where moving to other office is the only thing that will keep you in the job. I think you need to grab your chance and make your case to Grandboss. The timing is especially good, as she is probably working on finalizing her budget for the coming year, and could possibly find room for a cost-of-living increase for you.

    2. CatCat*

      I’m not sure I’m entirely following here.

      Is this right? You work in Office A, but travel often to Office B. You would prefer to work in Office B and requested it, but were turned down. Meanwhile, your boss has set up a rule that you need to leave Office B when your work is done (?) And then, what, I’m not sure (?) This is so other people don’t see you in the office longer than you should be in the office (?) (This is the part I am having a hard time following.) You only want to stay at the company if you can transfer to Office B.

      Assuming the above is the case, it seems the only wanting to stay if you can move to work in Office B is the main issue. I’m not sure what more there is to say here than stick with the facts. “As you know, I travel to Office B frequently for [X, Y, Z business reasons] and was disappointed that my request to transfer there was turned down. I’m also finding the new travel rules frustrating because they make me feel that that I am not trusted to manage my travel time appropriately. I have always handled my work travel professionally and I hope if there is an actual problem, it would be addressed so I can be made aware and correct it.”

    3. Enough*

      I would certainly bring up this “other people at the company think we are using work travel for personal reasons”. It seems a little odd that this has become an issue only since the new manager started. This could then lead to discussion about transferring you and certainly give the Grandboss something to think about with the new boss and how he handles subordinate relationship.

    4. Argh!*

      Ugh “Other people” or “some people” never get identified and sometimes I wonder if it’s really one person made a snide remark while standing next to my boss in the washroom washing their hands.

      Something on your boss’s side: perhaps she doesn’t know you well and thinks having you around 40 hours a week will cement the relationship (though she may think her current insecurity will be a permanent thing, which it wouldn’t if she’s not insane).

      Has she come with you on one of your trips? That could help her see that the relationships there are also important & get a feel for the work you do there.

      1. Say what, now?*

        Yeah, this would be ideal. She could see that you have a valid work schedule, compare your expenses with the receipts that you turn in (to see that you didn’t charge anything to the company that shouldn’t have been) and get some personal introductions to the coworkers that she hasn’t had a chance to establish relationships with. Of course, this may not fly because many companies are limiting travel to save money.

        Your best bet, though, would be to frame it as, “I think it would be beneficial to everyone if you accompanied me to X so that you can get a feel for the operations we’re assisting with and the people behind those operations.” You could even suggest this to Grandboss so that she can push for it if she likes the idea.

  7. Nervous Accountant*

    I just wanted to provide a quick update from last weeks interview (where the owner of the company was way more interested in my company than in me). So the recruiter contacted me and said that he spoke to the owner, and as some people here were guessing, it was more out of cuirosity than anything else. They want me for the next and final step which is to meet with the tax manager who works under the owner. I was busy this week with jury duty, so I haven’t gotten back to him, but at this time I’m pretty certain that I don’t want this job–I wouldn’t mind interviewing again but it feels like a total waste of time and unethical to do that. I’m also worried about losing the recruiter as a good contact to have.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I think all the questions specifically about the company we’re curiosity, not the whole interview. Still, from last weeks description, it doesn’t seem like a great fit, I wouldn’t bother with the second interview.

        1. The New Wanderer*

          Argh, WHY does autocorrect always change “were” to “we’re”? Is it really unaware that “were” is a legitimate word?? (And yes it autocorrected every instance in this post too)

    2. CatCat*

      I think it’s weird that the recruiter keeps pushing this when you’ve already turned it down. I’d be really miffed about that and that the owner of the company did a bad interview and only interviewed me for “curiosity.” Forget that noise. Why would it be a serious interview the second time? How is this recruiter a good contact if he’s not listening to what you want and pushing you at a company like this?

    3. Mephyle*

      I don’t see any particular reason to the owner’s story. Sure, it might have been curiosity, but if it was something more nefarious, can we expect that he would admit it? He might have been telling the truth, or he might not.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Just as employees have to make a good strong case to be hired, I think that employers have to make a good strong case for employees to join their firm.

      I think it would be fine to say that you did not get a sense of how you would fit in to that company, the culture and the direction.

      This is like the guy that asks a out and then spends the whole date asking about her best friend. This employer is more interested in your employer than he is interested in your application for employment.

  8. Rose*

    The letter this week from the nonprofit employee struggling to make ends meet (and thoughtful comments from Agatha_31 about how hard it is to break the cycle of poverty) has me thinking about a situation in my own office.

    I, too, work for a nonprofit that’s mission-driven. My pay, as a full-time employee with eight years of experience, is pretty decent (and the benefits are incredible). I was lucky enough to graduate from college without any debt, and I bought my house at just the right time, as the cost of housing has skyrocketed in our city in the past three years. I’m able to afford everything I need and most of what I want.

    Entry-level employees — especially part-timers and contractors trying to break into a niche industry — aren’t as lucky. (Oh, the days of making $23K a year, I don’t miss you.) Most of the people in these lower paid positions work service industry jobs to make ends meet. Recently, we hired a young woman who’d been doing contract work into a part-time position that will become full-time in 12-18 months. But in the meantime, she’s really struggling. There was a fire at her apartment earlier this month, and she’s currently couch surfing, crashing with a different friend every night, trying to save up enough for another security deposit, as it was her roommate that accidentally started the fire. She’s still producing quality work, but I can tell she’s stressed and exhausted, as anyone would be.

    I’m in a position to offer her a place to stay until she gets back on her feet, as I’m about to head out of town for a month-long vacation. I’m pretty sure she would accept, as our social circles overlap slightly — she waitressed with a very good friend of mine and now bartends at our favorite restaurant. I know the advice here is usually not to co-mingle work and housing, but given the circumstances, it feels very much like the right thing to do. Thoughts?

    1. Helpful*

      If it were me, I would ask her to house-sit while I’m gone. Good deed done, with an expectation of a deadline so she can’t overstay a welcome.

      1. FormerOP*

        Second this. A friend once asked me to housesit for her. I needed a place for about a weekend between living situations and she asked *me* do to *her* the favor of housesitting. It was kind, graceful and very helpful to me. I got a free place to stay without feeling like a charity case (and maybe she actually likes having a house sitter, I dunno.)

      2. EddieSherbert*

        +1

        This is definitely mingling (maybe in a way Alison wouldn’t recommend) but I’d feel the same way as you… if she seems like a decent trustworthy person having a tough time… I’d want to offer the same thing!

        There’s just the normal concerns about if she messes something up or owed you rent/utility money would that spill over into work?

        But housesitting seems like a decent compromise to me – there’s an expectation of “this isn’t your home so don’t make a crazy mess and move everything” with a deadline for how long she can stay.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          I think normal rules on boundaries can get suspended when someone is homeless from a fire! If you know her to be trustworthy and responsible, I think asking her to house-sit is a really nice idea.

          1. Rose*

            The only complication with house sitting — as that’s my instinct, too! — is that my partner is technically still going to be in town for the first week, albeit so busy hitting a production deadline on a podcast that she’s unlikely to be home much. (My partner, btw, thinks that we should absolutely invite her to stay with us, as we both what a privileged position we’re in to even be able to offer.) I’m thinking of saying, “Phoebe, we could really use a house sitter next month while we’re out of town. You’d be welcome to move into the guest room now, if that would be helpful.”

            2. Marzipan*

              Well, and also, that gives her a bit of run-in time prior to being the actual house-sitter, where she can learn the quirks of how stuff works in your house, when to put the bins out, what the goldfish’s feeding schedule is, whatever. So it’s practical, too.

            3. Southern Ladybug*

              I like this phrasing as well. And I agree that in this situation the blurring of boundaries are warranted! And house sitting does make it more time limited if needed.

              I wish her the best and hope the arrangement works out.

            4. Elizabeth H.*

              That sounds like the most perfect working. You are so lucky to be in this great position where you can help our your coworker AND have a housesitter you know and like! The feeling of being able to help someone out is so rewarding.
              If your coworker feels uncomfortable about staying in your house before the “housesitting” period officially begins (and it seems like she wouldn’t have much reason to feel uncomfortable, but who knows) she can easily say that she already has planned to stay with a friend for that period.

      3. MechanicalPencil*

        Exactly, and that way it feels like she’s doing you the favor and not the other way around. I don’t like accepting help from others (it’s actually a fault of mine). So if I felt like I was doing a service for you, I would feel better-ish about accepting.

        1. BenAdminGeek*

          Yes, I like this as well for the same reason. You are in a sense offering charity, but in a way that communicates that it’s for your mutual benefit. And then if she doesn’t want that burden, she has more ways to get out of it- “Oh, I’m too flighty for that”, etc.

      4. Artemesia*

        I’d ask her to housesit– and mention that you generally don’t like to mix business and social/home life but this seems like a win win — it would make you feel more comfortable having someone in your home for this month and would give her a month’s break from couch surfing. You are making an exception this one time. I would also be very explicit about the ‘rules’ e.g. guests, eating your food etc. I would pay the utilities and clear a couple of shelves in the refrigerator so she could store her own food.

        I had graduate students live in my home several times for 3 mos. Their only real obligation was caring for the cat — I paid utilities but they didn’t pay rent. One student was getting married in December and we were gone all fall, so it gave her free housing that month which worked out for her and gave us the security of having someone in the house. I was fine with guests for dinner or whatever but not big parties and never had any problems. I did lock our bedroom and put sensitive files and stuff there. I am sure they could have jiggered the crappy bedroom door lock but have no evidence they did. They had 3 other bedrooms to choose from and were free to use anything in the kitchen. The one thing I would do especially with a work subordinate is to secure personal papers of all sorts. They should be locked up. The other thing to secure is medications. And of course anything personal you wouldn’t want someone you work with to see.

        It would be a very kind thing to do.

        1. Rose*

          And I have a house sitter! I just offered, and coworker said yes. (She apparently burst into very quiet tears after I left the office down the hall where she works; another coworker who probably overheard our conversation let me know by IM.) I just hope this brings her a little bit of relief in an incredibly difficult time. I’m not that much older than her — about five years — and I just hope she knows it really does get better!

          2. fposte*

            Yay! How nice that you can do this for her. And I really like Artemesia’s guidelines (my experience of crossing the streams is also, unsurprisingly, academia).

          3. Southern Ladybug*

            My office is dusty….

            I’m glad you are able to do this kindness for her. And for her to be helping you, too. Win win!

          6. GG Two shoes*

            I totally just teared up from this. I had a house fire my senior year (that i found out about while I was in the hospital, no less) and the generosity of my friends and classmates really helped me get through. You are doing a very generous act, she won’t forget it. :)

          7. Red*

            I just wanted to say, as someone who couch-surfed for about 2 years following an incredibly difficult personal clusterfudge, that an offer like that (where she feels grateful but also useful, as opposed to a burden/charity case) is so incredibly wonderful and empowering, and you are the best kind of person for it.

            And yes, it always does get better. I’m in a much better place in my life now. She will be fine :)

    2. fposte*

      How unbendable you find that mixing work and housing rule is a personal decision. It’s true that the safest plan is just never, ever to do it, but I think most of our decisions aren’t just ruled by what’s the least risky thing, and that the risk can be pretty darn low. I have a friend who’s done this a few times, and it’s been fine.

      I think asking her to house-sit seems like a reasonable idea. I think you should be clear to yourself before you invite her on what you’ll do if she can’t afford a place when you return, and you should have a sufficient enough idea of her personality to assess the likelihood of her refusing to leave (she could have a claim as a tenant at that point) and the level of risk to anything you value in your house.

      1. Rose*

        My state has a lot of protections for landlords if the property is owner-occupied, so I’m not worried about her leaving. I think I just wanted reassurance that it’s OK to tangle things a bit, especially when the circumstances are exceptional, as they are here.

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      At an old office we all had planned summer vacations. It worked out really well as the summer intern we hired ended up not having a place to stay. She went from one house sitting gig to another. The stars aligned that summer.

    4. c.m.*

      before letting anyone into your house for a longer stay please consider the laws of when a guest can become a tenant. depending where you live, a person can establish residency at your home just by getting mail addressed to them at your address. check out your state’s law.

    5. Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way!*

      Agree with phrasing as “house sitting” and extending her the invite. It’s a very kind thing to do and THANK YOU for being so considerate.

    6. Morning Glory*

      This was really lovely of you to do. I’m glad it all worked out, it brightened my day to read about it.

    7. Agatha_31*

      I’ve been trying to figure out what to say for a few days about this, because there’s so much *to* say but I’m so moved I don’t even know where to begin. So I’ll just say that I teared up reading through this discussion, and I’m tearing up again reading it through again. Thank you so much for being so thoughtful, both in so generously deciding to share your home with this woman, and for considering her feelings when deciding how best to make that offer.

  9. Nervous Accountant*

    in non-work work news…we have a Halloween party at work today, pretty exciting! complete with a costumes contest. Can’t wait!

    How are you and your company celebrating Halloween (if you do and enjoy it)?

    1. PepperVL*

      We have a Halloween party at work today, complete with costume contest too! I’m Daphne Blake from Scooby Doo. What did you dress up as?

        1. PepperVL*

          Daphne Blake, Velma Dinkley, Frederick Jones, Norville “Shaggy” Rogers, and Scoobert “Scooby” Doo.

      2. MommaTRex*

        I wish I worked with you! I’m going as Velma Dinkley! I bought the perfect sweater at a thrift store years ago, and I finally found a skirt this year.

        1. PepperVL*

          That would be awesome! A friend and I went to Dragon Con as Daphne and Velma a few years ago. Someday, I want to get the whole Scooby gang together.

      3. SpiderLadyCEO*

        So fun! Best friend’s company is doing a big halloween thing, and his team is Scooby Doo. He’ll be Fred.

    2. Amber Rose*

      At my last company, we had a costume contest and tiny pumpkin decorating contest. You know, those little three or four inch pumpkins? That was fun.

      At my current job though, nobody really does anything, which is kind of a shame.

    4. Cordelia Vorkosigan*

      We’re also having an office costume contest this Halloween. I’m going as Hermione Granger. Should be fun!

    5. KTMGee*

      We’re having our Halloween party today too. My company gets pretty serious; decorations, food, costumes. Plus, people are encouraged to bring kids/families, so we end up with a lot of cute little visitors from 3pm on. Not for everyone, but alot of people do participate and really seem to like it!

    6. Rose*

      Coworkers with kids (we have A LOT in the 6 and younger set) are bringing them in on Tuesday. I’m really excited. I love Halloween. I always give spooky books to my niece and nephews, so for the office, I have a goody basket — little sacks of candy, Halloween toys, a few beginner reader books — so they can pick whatever they want.

    7. Ms. Mad Scientist*

      We are also having a party! I’m not doing a costume, but I made a graveyard cake. Sheet cake with green grass icing, gravestones are sugar cutout cookies with spray silver icing, and Oreo cookie crumbs for fresh dirt. I also added a couple plastic zombies, one emerging from the dirt.

    8. Lucky*

      My company is in the retail sector where Halloween is our best/biggest sales season, so we go big on Halloween. Every department comes up with a costume & decor theme, and there is judging and prizes for individual and group costumes & overall theme. We have a potluck lunch, also with judging and prizes. People bring in their kids for trick-or-treating in the afternoon and basically no work gets done. That’s just Halloween day – the week leading up is also full of little fun things. I’m not usually big on the holiday, but we do it pretty fun here.

    9. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      We do lunch and a costume contest. Ours is on Tuesday. I love Halloween, so I really enjoy seeing people get dressed up in my office who I think of as really professional/serious/buttoned up. The best costume last year was a Ghostbuster (but she left the company before I could befriend her…drat).

    10. MuseumMusings*

      I love Halloween, so I made sure to have our Fall Potluck fall on the Monday before – I’m bringing in themed food (cookies that look like fingers, creepy deviled eggs, etc.) and hope that others will do so as well! We do usually dress up for Halloween day as well. I’m bringing in candy!

      I also have been slowly spookifying my desk since September – it’s covered in bats (my favorite animal) and pumpkins now.

    11. GG Two shoes*

      We host a community Trunk or Treat. Our building isn’t in the best part of town (we’ve been at this location for 60 years- it was different when the building was built) so it’s really appreciated by the families as they don’t get events like that often.
      We had almost 300 kids! It’s voluntary, but over half of our office participates. Including all of our management team and the company president. It’s a good thing for morale too.

    12. TotesMaGoats*

      On Tuesday, kids from the elementary school down the street get walked down to our campus (we are urban setting) to trick or treat in our offices. It’s adorable!! The students do stuff, from a university activities perspective, but otherwise pretty low key.

    13. zora*

      Our main office has a happy hour-type party with decorations, and a few people wear costumes.

      I am the admin for a satellite office and we only have a few people here. I’m in this weird position where people always say they want us to do more culture stuff here, but most of the time when I suggest specific activities, people roll their eyes or just say they are too busy to participate. I am still struggling to figure out what people really want. I think people really do want to do those things, but they are stuck in this “Ugh, I have so much work to do” complainy place, and that’s their first reaction to everything, even though that’s not necessarily how they feel.

      So, anyway, I’m trying to figure out if we should do something still, maybe something low key like bringing treats on Tuesday.

    14. JeanB in NC*

      I work for a school and we have a Halloween parade every year (they walk around the school grounds). It’s freaking adorable! Especially the little ones (we start at 18 months).

    15. Nanc*

      We’re in a small town that has a kid’s parade downtown from 3-6. The kiddos parade from the library and stop at all the merchants to trick or treat. If we don’t have any client calls the boss lets us go so we can watch the fun.

    16. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Cubicle decorating contest and on actual Halloween we are allowed to dress up as long as the costume is appropriate for a work environment (i.e. no sexy anything, nothing super controversial, or overtly violent/gory). Plus we get donuts and cider.

    17. Liane*

      I am working a seasonal gig at one of the big Halloween stores. We are allowed to wear some of the costumes/accessories (except wigs of course!) and even carry props. I may bring my prop lightsaber today. I don’t want to bring it on one of my longer shifts as I cannot let that out of my hand/sight since it is one of the fancy replicas you can spin or even spar with. (Let’s hear it for college kids who know how to do Mother’s Day right!)

    18. Red Reader*

      My team is fully remote, so this weekend/beginning of next week, anybody who wants to has been invited to send me pictures of them, their kids, their pets, their decorations, whatever Halloween-y they want, and I will put together a “virtual Halloween parade” in powerpoint to send around. Fun for those who want to participate, easy to ignore for those who don’t. (I did this for the first time last year, and it was pretty popular :) )

      1. zora*

        This is a great idea! We have started adding a lot of remote people, and the central office has not done a great job so far of adjusting culture stuff to include them, I’ll have to see if I can get this idea started next year! Thanks!

        1. Red Reader*

          I also do a “virtual pitch-in” the week before Thanksgiving, where everyone who wants to contributes their favorite holiday recipe and I compile them and send them out. Last year I got a killer stuffing recipe for my Thanksgiving feast out of it :) And it’s not too late to get that going for this year!

    19. Opalescent Tree Shark*

      Everyone in my department is going as decorator crabs! (Well everyone who wants to be decorator crabs, there are a few going as other things and a few not participating. We would never pressure anyone.) We set aside some break time for our entry level employees to make crab shells (even those that didn’t want to dress up were welcome to come help decorate or just socialize with those who are decorating).

      We also challenge all the other departments to a costume contest. Pictures are being taken on Tuesday with the volunteers serving as impartial judges on Wednesday and Thursday. The winning department gets an ugly trophy and a pie from Costco.

    20. Windchime*

      We had a mini-pumpkin decorating contest. Boss supplied a mini pumpkin to everyone and almost everyone participated. We have everything from pretty to weird to clever. So much fun! They will be judged by an impartial person this weekend and there will be a small prize on Monday. Loads of fun!

    21. Blue Anne*

      I might bring in some Halloween treats on Tuesday. It’s a filing deadline for us. Not a lot happens other than that, though.

    22. Lemon Zinger*

      We are not celebrating in any way, thank goodness! I prefer to keep work and holiday celebrations separate.

  10. JobHunter*

    Going Anon for this one.
    I work for a County agency and am interested in applying for a job in another agency. Should I send my application from my work email or personal one? Normally I would never send an application from work email, but since I’m already a County employee I wasn’t sure which was best.

    1. Teapot Librarian*

      I’m going to say your personal email, and not during the business day. Our ethical guidelines say “don’t use your public position for private gain” and this would arguably fall into that category.

    4. PepperVL*

      I think it depends on if transferring agencies would count as an internal move as its for the same government, or an external move. If its internal, go ahead and use your work email. If its external, I wouldn’t. (Though please note that even internal stuff may be a no no when employed by the government.)

    5. extra anon today*

      Definitely do not use your work email! I work for a municipality and have been told in multiple ethics training sessions that this is a no no, even when applying internally. They will know you work for the county from your resume, and that’s enough.

    6. Footiepjs*

      As others have said, personal. If it’s an agency with the same county there will likely be a question that asks if you’re a current or former employee of the county so that information will be part of your application; not to mention it’s in your resume/work history.

    7. Joshua*

      Completely ignoring ethics and work email dynamics, but you should use your personal email just so you have a permanent record you control. If you end up leaving your current job you’ll lose access to that email account and you may be missing a crucial piece of correspondence a year down the road.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      You don’t want yourself in a position where someone can say you used county/government fund or resources for your own purposes.
      To be above reproach, definitely use your personal email. Happily, you can simply state that you already work in xyz and that would do the same job as showing a county agency email address.

  11. Murphy*

    I’m salaried nonexempt at at a state university. I’m a nursing mom. I have to clock in and clock out to keep track of my hours. I was chatting with some female co-workers (one who is younger with no kids, and one who is older and new to our organization). I mentioned that I don’t take lunch breaks anymore and I eat at my desk because pumping adds so much time to my day. They expressed surprise that I clock out to pump and suggested I talk to HR. I thought, of course I clock out to pump. It’s obviously not work time, why wouldn’t I clock out? Am I crazy? It’s about 45-50 minutes added on to my day, split into two, but that seems like a lot of nonwork time to get paid for.

    1. Normally A Lurker*

      I would talk to HR. At least at the company i currently work for, that’s paid time. I think your friends are right to have you ask.

      Worst case, they say no and you are where you started. Best case, they tell you yes, stop clocking out, and it’s 45 mins of pay that you get back per day.

    2. Sualah*

      I am hourly non-exempt and I absolutely did not clock out to pump, and neither do any of the coworkers I personally know who pumped. I kept up with my work, so maybe that’s why my boss didn’t say anything, but it did not even occur to me to clock out for that.

      1. Sualah*

        So you got me curious and I looked in our employee handbook and it says that to support nursing mothers, it considered as “break time” not “unpaid break time” (it is broken out very explicitly in our Meals and Breaks Period policy. It says you need to keep your manager in the loop for the frequency and duration of the breaks so business needs are covered, but that’s it. So I’d check into that, for sure.

        1. Murphy*

          Our documentation on the state HR website is not super helpful! It basically says that we should be entitled to the same paid breaks that anyone else is entitled to (but I can find no information on what, if any, paid breaks I am entitled to) and that if our time is in excess of that, we need to be allowed to use unpaid breaks.

          1. Sualah*

            Hmm, yeah, that’s not helpful. “Need to be allowed to use unpaid breaks” but that definitely doesn’t mean required to use unpaid breaks. Hopefully an actual person can help you out!

    3. SCtoDC*

      I would check-in with HR. For our non-exempt staff, they don’t have to count “breaks” that are under 20 or 25 minutes, so I would assume you don’t have to either.

      *I don’t think pumping counts as a break. It’s hard work!

        1. Murphy*

          I just assume that all government run organizations will allow me the bare minimum they are required to.

      2. fposte*

        Agree with the check with HR, but I don’t think how much work pumping is factors in here unless you’re giving the company the milk :-).

      3. Murphy*

        I know, right!

        I just assumed that since it wasn’t work, I had to clock out, just like any meal time or appointments, etc. I don’t think our HR rep is in today, but I’ll shoot her an email.

    4. Haley*

      You should definitely be contacting your HR to clarify the policy.

      There’s federal law on this – U.S. DOL website as a guideline, but depending on your state, there might be even more protection. An excerpt and link below:

      Does the break time have to be paid break time?
      ANSWER: Employers are not required under the FLSA to compensate nursing mothers for breaks taken for the purpose of expressing milk. However, where employers already provide compensated breaks, an employee who uses that break time to express milk must be compensated in the same way that other employees are compensated for break time. In addition, the FLSA’s general requirement that the employee must be completely relieved from duty or else the time must be compensated as work time applies. See Wage and Hour Division Fact Sheet #22, Hours Worked under the FLSA.
      https://www.dol.gov/whd/nursingmothers/faqBTNM.htm

      1. Murphy*

        Yeah, my state’s website references “break time”, but I can’t find any info about what if any break time policy we have.

        Would be great if employers made this kind of information freely available instead of having to chase it down all the time.

        1. As Close As Breakfast*

          Try calling your local WIC (Women, Infants, and Children) office to see if they have information on legal requirements for your office if you can’t find it readily online. I briefly worked at a WIC office several years ago and they usually have a breastfeeding support office/group. They would likely know and/or have pamphlets or brochures with the laws for your area for the women in their program that were returning to work.

        2. MicroManagered*

          Have your googled “whatever university” and “breast milk” or “breast pump” or something? That’s how I find my employer’s (a state university) policies. It’s so much easier than the website!!

    5. Thlayli*

      Most jurisdictions actually have laws about what employers are required to do for nursing mothers. Look u the law before talking to HR.
      What is your job like? Is there any way you could continue to work while pumping? I had a hands free bra and a private office and I would just keep working while the pump did its thing. If you have a shared workspace there are nursing covers. Or you could combine lunch with pumping.

    6. MicroManagered*

      I work at a state university. I’m not HR but I work in an HR-adjacent department. I’d ask about this, but I’d probably start with your boss, maybe HR if you aren’t comfortable or think your boss is the type to apply rules to absurdity. I really think they’ll tell you not to clock out for this.

      You have a physical condition that requires some extra time and attention. Would you clock out for an extra-long restrooom visits or time to inject insulin or something? I think probably not. My employer is very liberal about accommodations like this….I think my boss would laugh at the notion of clocking out for something like this.

      Can’t hurt to ask.

  12. Some Sort of Management Consultant*

    (I’m the knitter from letter 2 in today’s short answers)

    And God, I just wanna go home and knit and not talk to anyone. I’ve worked 53 hours so far this week (and that is a lot for me, please no admonishments about how it’s not a lot compared to many others) including a 13-hour meeting yesterday, and a (so-far) 8 hour meeting today.

    I didn’t want to discuss anything, I just wanted to whine. haha ; )

    1. Teapot Librarian*

      Holy carp a thirteen hour meeting?? Not a thirteen hour day? I can’t even imagine how you are still even minimally functional. I hope you’re able to go home soon and knit and decompress!! (PS what are you knitting right now?)

      1. Some Sort of Management Consultant*

        Nope, meeting…

        (I also have ADHD. God it’s been torture. But I guess it shows that my current medication regime is working – i wasn’t jumping around the room after 2 hours…!)

        1. Bibliovore*

          Oh, I so know what you are going through. I used to knit at least 3 hours a day between my subway commute and meetings. Once thing that may help. Learn calligraphy and take meeting notes in a nice hand.

        2. EddieSherbert*

          Okay, I DON’T have ADHD and I’d be jumping out of my skin after that long!

          I literally only fill my waterbottle up halfway so I have extra reasons to get up and move during the day to refill it. Haha.

      3. JD*

        This! I would be running in circles around the room screaming my head off. I can’t even sit for an hour without my body being in pain. This sounds like slow, painful torture to me.

        1. Some sort of management consultant*

          God, I know that feeling so well!!
          That’s one of the things that’s REALLY improved with ADHD medication.

          1. MommaTRex*

            Even on meds, I still find that I need to keep my hands busy. Hence, lots of doodles. Well, scribbling mostly. I can’t draw.

            1. Some sort of management consultant*

              We’ve been sitting 7 people (!!!) looking at a screen correcting wording, punctuation and formatting in a (admittedly very important) document.

              It’s basically my idea of hell.

          2. JD*

            I should say I cannot sit still for an hour do to being run over when i was younger. It physically kills me to sit still as it puts stress on some part of my body and hurts. Not due to lack of ability to pay attention…although I am not sure I could pay attention to ANYTHING for 13 straight hours.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Uggggggh that is way too much peopleing for me. I hope you can relax and knit this weekend and have some peace and quiet!

    4. Mike C.*

      No, 53 hours is a lot of time, regardless of industry.

      Also, how in the hell do you get anything done sitting in a meeting room for 8 to 13 hours? How does it not become like Lord of the Flies in there?

    6. Beancounter Eric*

      It’s not whining, it’s venting!! And you have every reason to do so.

      53 hours is a long week for anyone, and whomever plans your meetings needs to consider how low productivity falls when they run 8+hours.

      If I may ask, what are you knitting?

    7. RVA Cat*

      Yikes.
      If they dare have those marathon meetings on Halloween – and they’re an office where people come in costume – you would be justified to come as Madame Defarge and knit while plotting their decapitations.

    8. Samiratou*

      53 hours plus a 13 hour meeting? How the heck do people find stuff to meet about for that long? (Let me guess, they don’t…). Seriously, as a fellow ADD sufferer, I’d put “let me knit in these interminably ridiculous meetings” in as an official accommodation.

        1. Beancounter Eric*

          You’ve got to be kidding….this is ridiculous.

          Questioning your career choice yet?? :-)

          If you imbibe, I’d suggest a Guinness once you are done. Actually, several may be in order at this point.

          Good luck!!

          1. Some sort of Management Consultant*

            I’ve had two beers and someone just found me a mini bottle of pink champagne… (!)

  13. Anonymous Educator*

    Yesterday, there was a letter about someone working in a non-profit worried about appearing to be in it just for the money.

    It reminded me of the 80s movie Gross Anatomy. In the film, Matt Modine’s character has to work during breaks at a hospital. His supervisor asks him “Dedicated or poor?” And his initial response is “Poor.” Later on, when Modine’s character goes back, his supervisor asks the question again, and Modine’s character responds “Dedicated,” at which point the supervisor walks away. Modine’s character follows up with “… and poor,” which makes the supervisor take him more seriously.

    Just curious as to what people’s fields or jobs are and whether they face that pressure to need the money and to be dedicated to the org or company’s mission.

    1. Me Again*

      I worked in community mental health and there was pressure to be both dedicated to the mission, but also embrace the low salary as somehow “purifying.” Of course 90% of my department was married to someone who made much more than we did. My boss even said to me once “Aren’t we lucky we have spouses that make money so we can do what we love?” I don’t think that is true. And I think it is terrible thing to say to a person with an MA and possible student debt who makes less than $35,000 a year in one of the craziest housing markets in the country. And who works 12+ hour days because the caseload is SO HIGH that you can’t get it done otherwise. No matter how much our spouses made, it was NOT an excuse for us to be paid so little. I don’t find low salaries purifying or morally correct. I did love that job. But it came with a heap of bull and I was not willing to deal with it for a low salary. Ugh. No wonder I quit.

      1. Artemesia*

        I am always fascinated by the idea that teachers, social workers, mental health workers etc should not be motivated by money and work for almost nothing but that CEOs can’t be attracted to those jobs unless they are paid 100 times what entry level workers are.

        2. Me Again*

          Well, they have real skills you see. The “skills” of direct line staff that went to graduate school and take CEUs every year aren’t real skills that need to be compensated of course. /s

      2. Rose*

        My colleagues in the first newsroom I worked in referred to their spouses as “patrons of journalism.” I wish community information gathering was a respected profession, but it’s not.

    2. EddieSherbert*

      Definitely a lot of hype for the company. We call it “drinking the company kool aid.” For example, “I can’t believe Fergus left, he seemed like he was really drinking the kool aid.”

      (my company is kind of known for paying less than average, but with above average benefits. I’d agree with this assessment.)

      1. Artemesia*

        I discovered in my last job that the ‘kool aid’ phrase was used a lot by younger workers and that most of them had no idea what its origins were. Was that just my little pond or has it become divorced from the horrifying meaning that originated it?

        1. Me Again*

          Most people my age (early 30s and younger) don’t seem to know. I know, but then, I like history and am fascinated by morbid things. And I know it wasn’t really Kool-aide at Jonestown, it was Flavor-Aid.

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            I wasn’t around for the Jonestown stuff, but I did get real into Tales of the City in my early 20s, so I got really fascinated by everything happening in San Francisco in the 70s, which meant learning a lot about Jim Jones…

        3. The IT Manager*

          It has become completely divorced from its origins. Jonestown happened in 1978; I was 4. I know the origin but never think of it when I would say “drink the kool-aid” a very common phrase in the military. Jonestown is history for me not a horrifyingly real event that happened in my lifetime. And for many military members it’s happened before they were born.

          1. Anna*

            I’m the same age as you and I used to think the same way about the phrase, but then I watched a documentary about it, realized one of the few survivors are still alive and decided maybe I could say something else instead.

        4. Teapot Librarian*

          I only learned of its horrific origins a few years ago, and I’m at the tail end of Gen X.

        5. Elizabeth H.*

          I feel like I knew where the phrase originated from since I was old enough to learn about the history of Jonestown (although I remember being confused for a while if it actually referred to the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test type events). I’m 30. I know where it comes from, but I agree that it has become completely divorced from the meaning that originated it. It’s macabre but seems to me like it is a firm part of the colloquial lexicon. Imo Jonestown is poorly understood by many people of various ages.

        6. Rainy*

          I think a lot of people don’t know where the phrase came from or that it was motivated by a real event, especially younger people.

          I grew up in a cult and have a personal (some might say morbid) interest in American cults, so of course I know, but I don’t tend to assume that my knowledge base is universal.

        7. EddieSherbert*

          I had no idea and just had to google it – anddddd hopefully people are using it because they don’t know the origin, because turns out, that’s pretty awful. Oh dear.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I’ve never, ever worked for dedication, except for my writing, which is at this point completely unpaid. I grew up middle class, but I’ve been poor my entire adult life. Part of this is because I have dyscalculia–I simply cannot get the jobs in the business field that pay a lot of money, as they involve extensive math (budgeting, payroll, data analysis, etc.). Only one time have I worked for a non-profit, and frankly, I don’t want to do that again.

      I read the letter, though not the comments, and I’m pretty much with that OP. You pay me and I will do the job to the best of my ability, but I’m not doing it because of any mission. It’s a job. It would be nice if I were paid to do all this damn writing and editing. Money is not a dirty word and people should be able to make a decent living.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        You pay me and I will do the job to the best of my ability, but I’m not doing it because of any mission

        I mean, it’s a business relationship. It’s not as if they’re going to pay you for not doing the work, so why would you do the work without getting paid?

        I’d honestly rather volunteer than get paid a pittance to be an “employee” who “believes in the mission.”

        1. justsomeone*

          Or worse – I ran into a situation recently where an organization was asking for volunteers to PAY to be part of a volunteer group.
          They wanted us to PAY THEM to volunteer our time.

          2. Planner Lady*

            This is actually quite common in cases where there is extensive training required to start volunteering, such as a crisis counselling line, or in cases where there are a lot of candidates but where the drop off rate can become very high, such as volunteering medical aid overseas.

            You’ll find that most organisations and agencies that require this have sound reasoning behind it.

    4. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Oh my God, when I was a teacher, we were asked to make all kinds of sacrifices “for the children.” Like, you don’t want to come in early to be our morning crosswalk attendant? You really must not care that much about out the kids.

    5. MuseumPerson*

      In the museum field specifically, there’s a lot of pressure to be “passionate.” There’s some stigma around talking about salaries, unpaid internships, etc., because the benefits of working in a passion-driven field are supposed to outweigh the drawbacks of low pay. (There’s also an oversaturation of people with museum studies degrees, so the feeling is that if you complain about your pay, you’re easy to replace with someone who’ll be grateful for the job and not care about the check.)

      In my experience, conversations about pay and answering the questions the poster described the other day were kept pretty quiet and requests for raises were only very carefully addressed. I’ve also heard colleagues (generally the older ones, but not always) dismiss former coworkers who left to take new jobs as only taking the new position for the money, especially if that new position wasn’t in museums.

      There’s a great blog called Nonprofit AF that’s posted several times about paying nonprofit employees decent wages. He describes treating employees well as being just as important to the mission as anything else – how can you claim to be making the world a better place if the staff doing the work is struggling just as much as the people they’re trying to serve?

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        He describes treating employees well as being just as important to the mission as anything else – how can you claim to be making the world a better place if the staff doing the work is struggling just as much as the people they’re trying to serve?

        I fully agree. And I think the messaging around non-profit scrutiny needs to change, too. Employee salaries are not unnecessary overhead. They are a critical part of a non-profit’s operating at max efficiency, well, unless the CEO is being paid 20 times more than all the other employees…

      2. Lily Rowan*

        People who don’t understand that most of us are living off our salaries make me nuts! I’ve worked at nonprofits that gave lipservice to diversifying the field while only offering unpaid internships. Guess what that gets you? More upper-class people! Argh.

        And that just perpetuates the stereotype of young people living off their parents and women living off their husbands that makes people not respect the field overall!

      3. Buffy Summers*

        “He describes treating employees well as being just as important to the mission as anything else – how can you claim to be making the world a better place if the staff doing the work is struggling just as much as the people they’re trying to serve?”
        Wow you really hit the nail on the head for my workplace. We are a community action agency and more than half of our staff – our most important staff, the ones who actually work with the children on a day-to-day basis – are eligible for state benefits. We actually serve some of those staff with some of our programs for low-income families. It’s so sad, but we’re also heavily grant funded, so we have a very limited budget to work with. As much as we might want to, we can’t even come close to similar jobs in other places. Obviously we have a lot of turnover and it’s almost always for better money.
        It’s very demoralizing.

      4. Polaris*

        I have a degree in a related field – archives – which is also completely oversaturated, and after trying for several years without success to break into the industry (including several unpaid internships), I finally had to move to something unrelated in a completely different field in order to earn a paycheck that would allow me to actually live above the poverty line (barely; this city is expensive). The work I’m doing now is absolutely not something I’m enthusiastic about, but the work culture is decent, I get overtime pay if I need it, and the benefits are good.

      5. Footiepjs*

        That last paragraph tangentially reminds me a friend who worked for a labor union for a short stint that underpaid/overworked her and were really awful about accommodating her disability. I hate that sort of hypocrisy.

        Reminds me of Fight Against Slavery advertising for an unpaid internship.

    6. Jadelyn*

      I’m in HR at a social/economic-justice nonprofit CDFI. I’m both dedicated and poor, so to speak – my other half makes much better money than I do in a blue-collar skilled trade, thankfully, so we get by.

      There’s a lot of pressure at my org to hire people who aren’t “just in it for the money” and who are “mission-fit” for our cause, and our president always handwaves-off criticism of the salaries paid to lower-level staff and those of us pointing out that a lot of our CSRs are leaving for much better wages at for-profit banks by saying “If they leave for money reasons, then they weren’t the kind of mission-fit people we want anyway.” Which frankly makes me see red – it’s easy to say that when you’re making six figures, buddy, but when you have a choice between $13/hr at a credit union and $18/hr at a bank, and you’ve got rent to pay and kids to feed, it’s a no-brainer, and all it says about their commitment to the mission is that they won’t put the organization’s mission above their own literal survival and well-being. And if you’d blame them for doing that, you are a horrible person who shouldn’t be running an economic-justice organization.

      Ironically, many of our low-paid line staff who have kids qualify for state support programs for their kids. I kind of feel like if you talk a good game about helping people lift themselves out of poverty, but you pay poverty wages to your entry-level staff, many of whom come from the very communities we purport to be helping, you’re actively working against “the mission”.

    7. Mr. Rogers*

      I work in a field that’s notoriously high in prestige but low in pay, along with being nearly entirely based in one major expensive city. It is definitely expected that people work a lot of unpaid nights and weekends (though you can do a fair amount of that from home) on top of staying late at the office, and not complain about the money bc they’re in it for “love of the job.” One of my old bosses was bad in several ways, but on my first day he told me that because he knew the salary was not amazing, I should only work my actual hours and not stay late just to prove something. That meant a lot, especially with my hour long breaks!

      It means of course that my industry is also full of tons of people with inherited wealth, well off spouses, and little diversity. But nobody wants to pay more, so….

    9. A Teacher*

      High school teacher. We often get criticized for our pension (I don’t get social security) that we self fund and don’t have the option for a matching 403, amount of pay, and amount of hours. Reality: I have a full time job, coach, and work two part time jobs to make ends meet.

    10. Cedrus Libani*

      In my field (data science), there are two types of jobs – the ones where you’re helping cure cancer, and the ones where you’re helping people sell stuff. The latter pays easily twice as much, because people would rather be doing work where the mission makes them feel warm and fluffy. BUT. If you have a $100K job, moving to a $200K job honestly won’t change your life that much. Anyone using the “we pay you in good karma” line on someone who’s barely making ends meet…where’s the office hexer when you need them?

    11. AcademiaNut*

      Academia (STEM).

      There is definitely a strong “do it because you love it” attitude. But it’s also widely known that moving to industry will get you a lot more money. So being in it for the money would not be particularly logical.

      Generally, salaries once you get past grad school are sufficient to live on without privation. The only case I know of someone resorting to food banks involved a complicated international tax law situation which meant that they was supporting a family on ~40% less than the salary was supposed to be.

      Our particularly weakness is holding out for a permanent job, doing a series of two to five year limited term contracts, moving cities (or countries) every time you shift jobs, in the hopes that you’ll land a faculty or staff position.

    12. Maineiac*

      I survived almost entirely on “dedication” alone in my first seven years in higher education (although, I’m grateful for the education benefit which allowed me to earn a master’s degree almost debt-free). My position, which required a master’s degree, started me out at $33K! But, it turned out to be a luxury I could no longer afford. I jumped ship for a much higher salary and government job…which I have come to detest more than a year and a half later. I’ve learned I can’t work entirely for one (dedication) or the other (salary) and am trying to find a better balance.

  14. nonnynon*

    New York City’s minimum wage raises to $13 starting January 1, 2018.

    I currently work as a full time intern making slightly less than that. I’ll be leaving before 2018, but another intern will come and take my place, and there are several others on my team. Interns are hired as contractors through a temp agency, we get paid through a different system than full time staff. It’s a nonprofit, so budgets are tight.

    Should I give my manager a heads up about this wage change or not bring it up? I’m not sure if they know. Intern salaries have not changed in at least 5 years (a different issue, considering the cost of living increase in the last five years), so I’m not sure if they’re aware of this going into 2018. However, I’m worried: will this be taken as me being proactive (in the end, this doesn’t effect me) or will I be overstepping?

    1. Jule*

      If your manager is really attuned to this sort of thing and you have a rock-solid relationship, then maybe it’s worth asking her (not “telling” her) about whether they’ve heard about the new rules. It would also be reasonable to do it if you noticed a job listing with the old wage and could flag it for them as a correction. But I have to say, I think there’s a pretty strong chance that it’ll look like you were assuming they were ignorant or even malevolent, and I would not risk ending an internship on that sour note.

    2. KTMGee*

      I wouldn’t; it’s not your job to ensure they’re keeping abreast of wage laws. I’m sure someone in the organization (HR? Legal? Payroll?) knows that the raise is coming.

      1. KTMGee*

        I’d assume if you’re aware, they’re aware. Wouldn’t this be more a question for the temp agency that actually pays you, not the nonprofit you work for, anyways?

        1. nonnynon*

          We’re not hired through the temp agency, I guess it’s more of an external payroll company that they use for contractors that’s different than the external payroll company they use for full time staff. So we have no communication with them besides using their platform to submit time sheets.

          1. AMT27*

            That sounds like a PEO service. Even if your employer isn’t aware the payroll company CERTAINLY is, and wouldn’t let payroll continue going through if its less than minimum wage.

    3. EddieSherbert*

      Especially since it’s not affecting you (you won’t be there anymore), I don’t think there is a “casual” (AKA not weird) way to bring it up. I’d just not mention it.

    4. CoffeeLover*

      I really don’t think this is something to bring up unless your company is very small and dysfunctional. Companies generally don’t want to break the law and keep up to date on things relating to wage changes. If you have an HR department or an HR person, they would certainly be aware of it. But even anyone doing hiring should be aware. I think it would come off very strangely to tell them this as if they don’t know already know (because really they should know). If you really want to though, you could mention it in passing as a conversational piece like “it’s interesting were raising the min wage…” But there is a slight chance that this may come off as you bemoaning your low wage.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      It’s nice of you to think of it, but it’s not really your problem, especially since you won’t be there. I’m sure the payroll company is aware of the change. It’s their business to keep up with things like that.

    6. Jadelyn*

      If they’re at all competent, your HR already not only knows about it but has their plan ready for that, and have already been doing internal analysis work on the impact of raising any staff who are currently below that new wage threshold. Don’t worry about it – it’s their problem to deal with.

      1. Alice*

        If HR is dealing with the problem, how come they haven’t noticed that there have been no increases over five years? I mean, yes, a legal minimum wage requirement changing is different from normal inflation… but five years of no change does not strike me as “we’ve got it covered.”
        That said, nonnynon — just because they might not be doing their job doesn’t mean you have to do it for them. So no pressure to raise it if you don’t feel comfortable about it.
        Good luck after the internship!

        1. Observer*

          Who says they haven’t noticed? The fact that there have not been raises is not related to “didn’t notice.” Now, I don’t know the reason for the lack of raises – it could be anything from crummy attitudes at the top of the org to legitimate struggles to who knows what. But it’s not because someone cant’ tell that time is passing and wages haven’t moved.

        2. Jadelyn*

          Those…are not even a little bit related issues. Intern wages stagnating is an entirely different issue from a minimum wage increase. And unless you’re on the HR team, you don’t know what they have or haven’t done on the intern wage freeze – for all we know, they’ve hotly debated and argued it with senior leadership and gotten nowhere. “Having it covered” is more a compliance thing than a keeping-up-with-cost-of-living thing – there’s arguably nothing inherently wrong with keeping intern wages flat, although I’d tend to personally disagree with doing so – so even *if* they haven’t bothered to address intern wages over the last 5 years (which, again, we don’t know that they haven’t done so behind closed doors), that doesn’t give us even an iota of data on which to assume they wouldn’t be ready to deal with a legal minimum wage change.

          1. Alice*

            You’re completely right that they may well be ready to deal with a legal minimum wage change. “Might not be doing their job” allows for “might be doing their job” as well. Since I’m not on the HR team, I don’t know which is true.

            I don’t agree that they’re entirely different issues — I’d put them both in the bucket labeled “compensation for the lowest-paid people in the organization.”

            And I don’t think this changes my suggestion to nonnynon — don’t bring it up if you don’t feel comfortable. Nonnynon clearly has good intentions — if she said something, she’d be helping the organization (preventing them from being blindsided), and maybe future interns, but not herself. But there’s no obligation for Nonnynon to speak up.

            And anyway, Nonnynon, from Elle Kay’s useful perspective below, it sounds like they probably know already.

    7. Observer*

      Of course your npo is aware of the raises. They didn’t not raise the intern salaries because they don’t know what’s going on. You can be 100% sure of that. Whether your manager knows depends on the structure of the organization, but that’s a different question.

      Leave it. Whoever needs to know, knows. And trying to give your manager a “heads up” is likely to cause offense. I get that you believe that the place is managed by a bunch of clueless idiots who don’t pay attention to anything going on around them. But, showing that is not likely to go over well.

    8. Elle Kay*

      Hey- I’m the (entire) HR and Admin Dept for the small non profit I work for in NY. The state Dept of Labor has been regularly sending letters reminding us of the upcoming minimum wage changes in NY so unless your organization is completely incompetent then they already know.

  15. Reinhardt*

    IT people: if someone is browsing the internet with their personal device on the company network, but using a VPN to encrypt their traffic, how big of a red flag does that send up for you?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t care, but that’s just in my org. We just don’t have the time and energy to police that stuff, unless we believe the person may be up to something. Same thing with viewing browsing history or email logs. We don’t dig through that stuff unless there’s some kind of investigation.

      Better question, instead of asking general IT people, would be to ask the IT people at your company. Everyone here could say “I don’t care,” but if the people at your company care, that’s what’s going to affect you.

      1. Stop That Goat*

        This. We’re too busy to sit around and actively monitor that sort of stuff unless there’s a problem.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        VPN isn’t necessarily a cure-all for privacy concerns. You have to trust whomever is providing you the VPN service.

        1. Cloud Nine Sandra*

          Absolutely. But it’s a reason someone could be using VPN that isn’t porn or illegal activities, so not necessarily a red flag to worry about.

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            Though, in theory, you aren’t necessarily entitled to privacy while at work using a work computer…

              1. Anonymous Educator*

                I still wouldn’t care what people do, but in theory you’re using company resources. I wouldn’t ban a VPN. I still don’t think people are entitled to privacy when using the company’s connectivity resources. Can you have privacy? Sure. Are you entitled to it at work? No.

                1. AWall*

                  They may be using a VPN for privacy/security for reasons other than keeping the company in the dark. Plenty of people use VPNs on their personal devices. It wouldn’t be a red flag for me at all unless there were other things causing concern.

    3. CAA*

      If personal devices are allowed on the network at all, then I’ve never cared what people do on them as long as they don’t suck up more than a reasonable share of the bandwidth and start impacting other people. It’s up to the employee’s manager to handle it if the use of a personal device is impacting the amount of work that gets done, or if the employee is doing something that is immoral, unethical or offensive.

    4. EmilyG*

      I think VPNs have become more common for lots of reasons in the past few years, for example, the bills allowing ISPs to sell your browsing history. I have VPNs on all my personal devices that turn on by default, just to keep Comcast from knowing what I’m shopping for. I don’t see the VPN as an issue per se.

      If the person is spending scads of time on a personal device, doing presumably personal tasks… that’s something else.

      1. FD*

        Yeah, exactly. I have one on my work PC because I sometimes have to work on unsecured WiFi networks, and I don’t always bother to turn it off when I’m actually at work.

    5. Thegs*

      No one gets to use their personal device on our network :)

      But it really depends on the rules. We block the common proxy/VPN ports here because usually people use them to bypass the firewall. If we see someone constantly dinging a known proxy we would immediately suspect them of either willingly trying to bypass the firewall (against our ToU) or of having a virus trying to be sneaky, both of which gets them kicked off the network.

  16. Database Geek*

    Another week of job searching – two phone screens this week. In the one earlier this morning they didn’t give me a chance to ask any questions (or I missed the opening to ask if I could ask? I’m not really sure) so I’m not sure if that’s a bad sign or not. Oh well. Also still waiting to hear back from a place I interviewed with last week (it’s still early yet so we’ll see).

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I wouldn’t take that as a bad sign necessarily. Sometimes people are just bad interviewers, and they don’t know they need to allow time for questions at the end.

      1. Database Geek*

        Yeah it sounds like this is possible too – either way I’m going to not worry about it any more. No point in obsessing over the fact that I didn’t ask any questions when it really is true she didn’t give me a chance to.

    2. k.k*

      It’s possible that they just use phone interviews to screen out people who are widely wrong for the job (don’t have a required qualification, out of budget salary range, etc.), and didn’t want to get too in-depth.

      1. Database Geek*

        That’s a good point. It did feel like she was only interested in gathering information to discuss with the rest of her group. We’ll have to see how it goes from here!

    3. Sherm*

      The first time I interviewed someone, I completely forgot to give an opportunity to ask questions. I would not be alarmed as long as you are not sensing other concerns.

  17. Bend & Snap*

    Okay, my work saga continues! To recap:
    Spring:
    Got demoted after merger along with thousands of others as part of job leveling
    My team got cut in half and my role shrank because now everyone is uber specialized

    Fall:
    Didn’t get promoted because of budget
    So 5 1/2 years after starting I technically am at the same level I started at despite spending 3 years in a management role
    Applied for a new job after lack of promotion
    Am deep into that interview process

    Last week:
    My entire team reorganized and I report to someone new that I don’t like much and a VP I’ve never met
    Head of my org talked to me about a high-profile project because I’ve been quiet and also talked about a new role for me in a different area

    This week:
    Talked to the hiring manager for the new role
    Made it to the final interview round for the job at the other company

    So:
    Now I’m just feeling really antsy and hoping I get this job because I’m so bitter about the way things have shaken out I don’t think I can be happy where I am anymore

    Any advice on soldiering through?

    1. JulieBulie*

      Concentrate on whatever’s in front of you, and try not to ruminate. I don’t mean “try not to think about it,” but “try to delay thinking about it.”

      Take it day by day and hour by hour… “I’m going to focus on what I’m doing now, and I can think about that other thing later.” And keep saying that, again and again, so that “later” doesn’t come until you actually have something to react to.

      Also, do something fun when you have a chance. Force yourself if you have to. Go see a movie, or look at office supplies. Whatever floats your boat. Some people (myself included) instinctively try to avoid fun when they’re miserable, but it’s better not to reinforce that instinct.

    2. King Friday XIII*

      Sounds like you might finally be seeing lights at the end of the tunnel, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you. I hope you get it!

  18. Arils*

    What is the most BS/ridiculous rumor you’ve heard about yourself at work?

    On the silly side: I have a co-worker who truly believes I am some high roller, VIP for all things business travel related (hotel, flights, rental car, etc.) and she gets mad about my or anyone else’s “upgrades”. The truth is, I just ask! And I’ve told her this.

    On the serious side: One female manager has implied that I have “special relationships” with 2 other male managers and that’s the reason I was promoted. I mean, being the top performer for the last three years and specifically learning new skills on my own time so I could get that job had nothing to do with it…Bahahaha! Insert massive eye roll here. The three of them are in the same office 400 miles away, so yeah…special relationship my ass.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      One time I had students who hated me (when I was a young teacher) and wrote on my evaluation that I should teach standard English stuff and not “radical” things like Thoreau. I couldn’t even.

      1. Lore*

        I wish I could remember the exact phrasing but when I was in grad school I had a student write that I taught too many works by women, minorities, gay people, and others. (So, humans, then?) The student was a woman of color, and the syllabus began with Shakespeare.

        1. Portia*

          At a parent-teacher conference yesterday, I had a parent complain that I teach too much “literature” by Muslims, and why don’t I teach more Catholic literature? (It’s a Catholic school.) I pointed out that a) sophomore year is world literature, so yes, we read Middle Eastern authors b) we want to broaden, not narrow, students’ perspectives of the world, and c) I had just, that day, taught a Catholic author.

          Usually it’s not too hard being a non-religious teacher at a religious school, but parent-teacher conferences always stress me out!

    2. Malibu Stacey*

      At a former job, I was an admin in 200 person dept. The reporting structure was employee -> supervisor -> manager -> director -> AVP, except me who reported directly to the AVP along with the directors and few consultants. A lot of people were afraid to be friendly with me because they thought I would report everything they said to my boss.

    3. Me Again*

      Everyone thought I was pregnant when I got a bunch of migraines, cause my migraines make me puke. My boss eventually asked me straight out if I was pregnant. I was engaged at the time and she basically said I was likely to be pregnant because I was living with my fiance before marriage….

    4. RedBlueGreenYellow*

      At my last job, I got a new manager who thought that I was effectively a shadow manager, doing her job behind her back. She said she was hearing that my coworkers were “still” reporting to me (they never reported to me at any time—I have never been a manager.) Apparently, she thought (or someone was telling her) that when my coworkers and I had work-related conversations, they were actually reporting to me, and I was assigning them work. I even got an extra-special performance review hit based on the perception that I was undermining my manager and trying to take over her job.
      It was really satisfying to leave that pit of despair.

    5. Bend & Snap*

      The only rumor I’ve ever heard about myself at work is that I was pregnant. I was. Sooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    6. HR Lady*

      In my first job someone hated the very bones of me. She left, voluntarily, and then put in a tribunal claim that she had been pushed out by the hiring of me, and I had only got the job because I was sleeping with the boss.

      Readers, I was not sleeping with the boss. I had to write out a statement for the tribunal panel that I was not, in fact, sleeping with the boss, and had never done such a thing. I got to that job via a really, really unusual method and this company had a terrible reputation for the ownerbosses (they were brothers) having affairs with female employees but I was not one of them. Fortunately she decided to drop the case as otherwise I would have had to be a witness at the tribunal, which I really didn’t want to do.

      This did kick start my interest in employment law which led indirectly to my current career in HR, so thanks, Awful Lady!

    7. Catroina*

      I once found out that our main office (which was in a another country, actually on a different continent even) had a bunch of rumors floating around that I was having an affair with someone in our warehouse. I was 40 at the time and he was 22. The reality is that he was dating someone age appropriate on my team. I have no idea how that mutated into an affair with newish-mom in a not very attractive place in my life. I absolutely rolled on the floor laughing when I heard it.

    8. Mints*

      This was from a child when I worked summer camp but it’s one of my favorite things:
      “Is it true there’s a hot tub in the teacher’s lounge?”

      2. GG Two shoes*

        Oh man, camp was just a CRAZY rumor mill. It’s was like a giant game of telephone. All the kids thought all the counselors were dating each other. They were about half right. haha

      3. Julianne*

        Not about me, but I remember rumors when I was young that one of the elementary schools I attended had a secret pool under the gym floor, and my current 5th graders are certain there’s a secret pool on the roof of our school. What’s with kids and aquatic rumors?

        1. nonegiven*

          There is a small town where my nieces and nephew went to school. They actually had a pool under the lunchroom. The floor opened but it wasn’t a secret. The youngest has grandchildren, now, so who knows if it’s still there.

    9. Elizabeth West*

      Not a rumor exactly, but a sales guy’s wife at OldExjob was very threatened by any women who worked with him. My supervisor, Angelina, had warned me, “Hey, Lavender will probably not be very friendly to you when she comes in to see her Won-Won, because she thinks you’ll be after her husband.”

      Well she wasn’t, at least on the phone–but after she met me, she thawed and became quite friendly. Angelina was very pretty. So I guess I wasn’t?!

    10. JD*

      Oh you are going to like this one. I was called into HR with my manager. My desk (large cube walls about 5 ft.) had a filing cabinet on the back side of it, so I can’t see the filing cabinet and no one at the cabinet can see me. Again, keep in mind that my whole cube has three of these walls, open to my back.

      Apparently a coworker complained that I was sitting at my desk typing, so my back to the open part, and was spreading my legs to show the guy filing up my skirt. Now first, logistically this is not even possible. He is filing on the other side of a 5ft. wall. Second, what??? I was the youngest woman in an office of mostly women and there were about 5 men. This guy was younger as well and we would chat now and again. Frankly he probably found me attractive but he was younger than me even, I had no interest.

      So HR bring me in and tells me all this. My jaw drops and I flat out confused. I think I said “what? huh? Who? (in reference to who I was flashing) How?

      HR and my boss pretty immediately said “ok ya that sounds unfounded no worries”. HR calls me into her office later in the day to apologize up and down. She says she cannot believe she even brought it up with me because now thinking it makes zero sense.

      I dealt many times with these older coworkers causing issues with me speaking to a single man in the office, work related or not. Rumors constantly flew that I was sleeping with any man I spoke to. I literally showed a guy in the office how to make a graph in excel and his boss yelled at him for talking to me. Because a young man and woman could not possibly be doing, ya know, work!! Once he showed them the insanely impressive budget he made with all the beautiful graphics his boss put her tail between her legs and acknowledged my amazing skills in the budget meeting with the whole board as she was so impressed. (No idea why this was such an impressive skill but apparently no one else knew how to do it). Finally made people realize that they needed to shut their mouths.

      Mind you another female employee who was a bit older than me was having a full on affair, often in his office, with the CFO and his wife found out and come and confronted her. But ya, I was the problem.

    11. hbc*

      I guess it wasn’t quite a rumor, but: my husband arranged for his sabbatical to be in the same country as my company’s headquarters, so we didn’t have to split up the family or have me take 6 months off of work. My colleague/boss (not a lot of clear structure there) kept referring to it as my “boondoggle,” like continuously joking/not-joking that this was some vacation I was arranging at the company’s expense. They didn’t pay for jack, I worked like a dog covering one time zone and then being available for the other (offset by six hours), and got a ton done for the company because I was the only person to ever spend significant time in both locations.

      I think it was all projection, given how he would go off “to work” at his lake house just about every Friday during the summer and have nothing to show for it, but it still was extremely annoying.

      1. Clever Name*

        Yeah, I had a boss who would assume that when you were working from home you weren’t actually working. Because when HE was “working from home” he was just goofing around.

    12. JeanB in NC*

      Well, at one job, the entire place *knew* I was having an affair with a guy I worked with, who was sometimes my supervisor (winter duties were different). Although I guess that wasn’t completely ridiculous because we were having a pretty heavy-duty emotional affair. (We didn’t use that term all those years ago, but effectively that’s what was happening.)

    13. Blue_eyes*

      When I was a counselor at sleep away camp in college one of the other counselors started a rumor that I was a lesbian because I hugged her once. Turned out she was bi and aggressively in the closet, so I guess she was projecting. (Obviously there’s nothing wrong with being lesbian, but I’m not, and it was a weird rumor to start based on non-existent evidence).

    14. Seal*

      My first job out of college was in an academic library. It was fine for the first few years, but due to a reorg things went downhill very quickly. At one point I wound up “co-supervising” our part-time student employees with another guy after our departments were merged. He was a lazy slob who didn’t do his job well and wanted to be everyone’s friend; I was always the bad guy because I expected the people we were paying to work to actually, you know, WORK.

      Despite the fact we were both supposed to be supervising the students, in reality we each had a few students that reported directly to us. His students generally worked at computers during their shifts with their headphones on; I never talked to them or gave them any direction. One day, this guy came up to me in a huff and accused me of being verbally abusive to his students and strongly implied that it was racially motivated. He claimed one of his students – again, someone I NEVER interacted with and rarely saw – said that I had yelled at her and called her names. I was furious and appalled; I’ve never yelled at any of my employees and certainly don’t call them names. Fortunately, he quickly backed down when I asked for specific details as to what was said and when; since it never happened, he couldn’t provide any.

      As it turned out, another one of our coworkers had it in for me and was constantly badmouthing me to the student employees when I wasn’t around. From what I could gather, she had made some false comment about me that was further misinterpreted and then all hell broke loose. Unfortunately, what coworker continued to make life miserable for me in any way she could; due to the ridiculous org structure there was no supervisor on site to address such issues and our various off-site supervisors didn’t want to get involved. An ugly situation all around.

    15. Infinity Anon*

      Some of my coworkers thought I was dating another coworker because his girlfriend and I had the same name. and he had started dating her around when I was hired.

    16. Dance fever*

      When I was in my 30s, the support staff were constantly speculating that I was pregnant. I switched from coffee to water in the afternoon- pregnant. Mentioned in passing that I needed to buy new pants- pregnant. Had a doctor’s appointment- pregnant.

      They were all very curious as to how I was married and yet child-free.
      For the record- 0 pregnancies. Now that I’m almost 50, I assume they no longer think such things.

    17. Orca*

      When I was working retail, a coworker would CONSISTENTLY start the rumor I was going to be assistant manager. Which…wouldn’t be a bad thing? except he told it in a “better plan your escape, she’s gonna make your life hell!” way. I have no management aspirations and this place definitely didn’t pay management enough to be worth it to me. I had transferred from another store, and actually did my job, so made this guy look bad and this was his…revenge?

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I had a boss do this to me, also. She told my crew-to-be that I was going to make their lives hell. I am not sure how this benefited the company. Anyway, you needed a chainsaw to cut the tension for the first few weeks. It was so weird, like being on another planet. I decided that all I needed to know was that I was going to do my best and eventually they would figure that out.
        I lost a few people. These were the judgy people who decided that I was evil personified and there was no fix for this situation. I did not cry when these folks left because their work was lousy anyway.
        Finally a dam broke and the crew decided that I was not evil, I was actually okay and the tension went down to normal work issues.

    18. LizB*

      One time an 8th grader tried to start a rumor that I was dating one of the other teachers because we happened to wear purple shirts on the same day. I found it hilarious (and it didn’t spread at all, because even 8th graders know when something is just patently ridiculous).

      1. Julianne*

        One of my students a few years back started a rumor (not maliciously, I don’t think) that our grade level’s two instructional aides were dating each other. They countered by starting a rumor that they were cousins. I wrote in both of their evaluations that they were creative problem solvers.

    19. SQL Coder Cat*

      Oh, I have a silly one (to me, anyway)! I got asked how long I’d been going out with RuPaul. We’d been carpooling to work because his car broke down and he couldn’t afford to get it fixed right away. It was hysterical to me because anyone who’d ever spoken to RuPaul was aware that he was very, very gay, so I was most definitely Not His Type.

    20. JerseyGirl*

      A guy on my team spread a rumour that I was sleeping with a much older manager. No truth in it whatsoever. It was really awkward as our roles involved working together a lot and travelling to off site meetings together and, once he’d planted the seed, I could feel co-workers looking at us and wondering.

    21. Spider*

      I’m a staff person at an academic library, although I have my MLIS. When I was was first hired, I worked in a department with four people — the two librarians were very friendly to me and the two staff people were not. One of the staff people has a lot of personal and mental issues, and she’s not friendly to anyone. The other staff person was rude to me in my interview for the position, when she didn’t know me from Adam, and continued to be rude to me when I worked there (never acknowledging me or my attempts at conversation, not responding even to my “Hello” or “Good morning,” letting doors shut on me when I was walking right behind her, etc.), but since this had started since the moment we met, I figured she must be incredibly shy or unusually socially awkward or something, since she couldn’t have any personal reason to dislike me.

      Well, no. Months later, I learned through the grapevine that this person didn’t want me to be hired in her department as staff because I have my MLIS and thought I would try to take her job (which…I would never do in the first place and indeed *cannot* do, because we’re unionized and it’s literally impossible to do this), and that she was going around telling people that I’m a snob who only talks to ~the librarians~.

      I mean, yes, I was only talking to the librarians in my department, because they were the only people who would talk to *me*! The two staff people ignored me at best and were openly rude and hostile at worst. What do you expect, lady? Secondly, I could not give less of a shit about what degrees people have or what their titles are, and I always try to be friendly and polite to everyone I meet in the course of my day (even — especially — these two people, because I don’t like conflict). It was almost kind of funny, since if she had ever had an actual conversation with me, she would have known I’m not like that.

      (She was so offputtingly impolite in the job interview I had with her and the others — not looking at me once when she spoke, not acknowledging my hand for a handshake, saying nothing to me at the end but just leaving the room — that I wouldn’t have taken the job if I hadn’t been desperate, because she gave me such a bad impression of the workplace. I’m still here, though I work in another department now, and she still doesn’t talk to me.)

    22. Someone else*

      A couple of people apparently though I was secretly in the CIA because I have zero social media presence.

    23. Not So NewReader*

      Apparently, I was a narc.
      Some people went down behind the buildings furthermost out and smoked pot. I had to go down there one time looking for something and I noticed people standing around with joints. I said nothing. I have no idea what happened but I soon learned I had narc’ed on them.

      Shrug. I had not reported them, but I thought if they are going to tell everyone I did, then I might as well start. The whole thing became moot, because, surprise!, I never saw anyone smoking pot after that. That was okay by me. I don’t care if a person smokes pot. I hate it when people do it on company time and put me in that bad spot where I really should say something but I would rather not.

    24. Julie Noted*

      At my first job, as a teenager in retail, we had to submit times we were available to be rostered on each month. I said that I was available from 11am on Sundays but not before, because I attended mass with my family. Every time I’d be rostered on for opening shift on Sundays, so I’d have to go back to the roster manager and ask for the shifts to be moved. Colleagues who asked for the mornings off to play sport seemed to have their requests acknowledged with much less hassle. So the boss decided that I must be Jehovah’s Witness, to have such extremely strict behaviour as attending a Sunday service regularly.

      As a postgrad student I worked in a lab. I didn’t bring up religion at work but it was not a secret to people who knew me well that I was a practising Catholic. So word got around that I was a creationist (no!!), which resulted in someone refusing to accept me into their research program and someone else loudly accusing ‘people like me’ of destroying science, in front of the faculty.

      Needless to say, I live in an area where religious practice by young people is considered an aberration.

  19. Marketing Mom*

    I have to work closely with someone that is the new Director of a new company division. We have the same boss and he loves her. I hate her. She’s much younger than me and drop dead gorgeous but this isn’t jealousy about that, it’s everything about her. She has to show everyone up and wears a short or tight dress and huge heels everyday even though our dress code is a level below casual. She loves finding and correcting mistakes and nit picks everything I send her (she’ll notice an extra space and mention it). She doesn’t socialize with anyone and walks around like everyone is beneath her. She only flirts with a few select guys. She’s manipulated her situation to be much better than everyone else (better hours, private office, work from home). She can’t agree with or be happy with anything. Everything is “why can’t we do it this way,” she’s never satisfied. None of the other girls like her but like me very much. I’ve tried to complain to our boss (he is also the granboss) but he just says she’s from a more professional, harder-working environment. How can I convince him she doesn’t fit our culture?

    1. Bend & Snap*

      I don’t think you can. If she doesn’t report to you, and it doesn’t sound like she does, you don’t have any sway here. And honestly the issues sound more like BEC than actual work issues. Sorry :(

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      She was brought in as a director? Sounds to me like… she’s acting like a director. An extra space is a typo; she should mention that. She doesn’t socialize, which could be because she’s trying to establish her position. She *negotiated* better hours and working from home (I would be kicking myself for not doing the same, and I’d admire her for it), and she’s a director so she probably should get her own office. She wants things to be done differently, probably because she was brought in to “shake things up” or make certain changes. I don’t think you’re going to get any buy-in from your boss about this. Out of curiosity, are you and she both directors? Is she senior to you?

      As for the way she dresses, your complaints sound really petty to me. That’s the type of thing you roll your eyes at privately and go on about your business.

      1. Marketing Mom*

        I’m the Marketing Director. I was hired with another title but complained when she was hired as a Director and is a lot younger. I think they just hired her because of how she looks.

        1. Bend & Snap*

          Oh dear. I think you really have to just let all this go. It doesn’t matter and saying these words out loud to anyone at work, including your boss, isn’t going to reflect well on you.

        3. Jadelyn*

          “She’s younger than me and beautiful, but I’m not jealous about that” but then your first complaint is about her clothing choices and then you go on to say “They just hired her for her looks.” Like. You are outright contradicting yourself.

          If you have complaints about her as a manager, that’s legit, but “they just hired her for her looks” is sexist crap. It may or may not be rooted in jealousy, and only you can say that for sure, but either way it’s still sexist and gross and definitely a “you problem” to work on rather than a “her problem” to complain to anyone else about.

        4. Observer*

          You complained when they hired her? Because she is younger than you?!

          If you want to retain a shred of credibility you need to shut up and do stellar work for at least six months before you make another peep about her. And then think VERY carefully about what you say. Here is the thing. Most of the complaints you mentioned originally are NOT about her work. And the rest come down to things you don’t like because they are not good for you, not about her work quality or anything like that.

          It’s clear that your complaints don’t come from a place of looking at her work and its quality, but the fact that she is young and pretty. Well, guess what? Young and pretty doesn’t mean incompetent. And your focus on that is, at best, a very ugly work, and at worst will get you into a fair amount of trouble.

          1. Marketing Mom*

            No because she was hired with a Director title. I got my title changed from Administrator to Director.

            1. AvonLady Barksdale*

              I think you really need to slow your roll here. You complained about something that’s not necessarily unjust, but you got what you asked for. It would not look professional to keep complaining that this new hire got things you want that you didn’t ask for before she got there. I’m assuming you would like to work from home occasionally and you would like your own office; she didn’t get those things AT you, she got them because she knows how to advocate for herself. If I were you, I’d take a deep breath and pay attention to her. Maybe you’ll find out she really is the devil, but maybe you’ll also learn some tips on how to get ahead in your field/environment.

            2. Observer*

              So you complained that someone got a Director title, because the fact that she is younger and prettier than you “proves” that she shouldn’t have gotten it. @AvosnLady Barksdale is right. You are not going to look very professional if you keep this up.

        5. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

          Everything you’ve written belies your insistence that you’re not jealous. Reconsider very carefully whether you have anything to say to grandboss about her that doesn’t reflect very badly on you.

      2. strawberries and raspberries*

        Yeah, if it isn’t actually about that, there was no reason to bring it up at all. I’m not here for this sexism.

    3. neverjaunty*

      Well, for starters, you need to express your concerns in a way that doesn’t come across as high-school level petty rivalry. Who cares if the other “girls” like you better, or she’s pretty? Is her criticism of your work genuinely wrong? Is she harsh to you or other women but lenient with male employees about the same thing? Is her personality causing problems with work being done efficiently and correctly? Do you have concrete, specific criticisms, other than vague “she doesn’t fit the culture”?

      Because right now you’re coming across as making this personal and petty, and your boss is not going to listen to serious concerns.

      1. Marketing Mom*

        She’s a very harsh know-it-all and and we’re a very laid back culture. I felt really supported in this position until she came and started red-penning all my work. She’s pretty combative with everyone like she has to get her way.

        1. Cordelia Vorkosigan*

          Errors in your work should be corrected, though. That’s not her being harsh, that’s her doing her job.

          1. Infinity Anon*

            Is it possible your boss felt the culture was too laid back and hired her to change things up?

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          You’ve got to ruthlessly cull through your complaints about her, figure out what specifically is impacting your work, and get rid of all the rest. Right now it’s coming across as really petty and sexist because of all the comments on her age, her looks, how she dresses…. Get rid of all of that or you won’t have any credibility (complaining about that stuff is also really bad for women, by the way), and focus exclusively on how it’s impacting your work.

        3. 2 Cents*

          Because she actually pushes back? I think you’re more threatened than you realize, Marketing Mom. Time to take a self-inventory. Plus, it sounds like you really, really hate change. Especially when that change has better proofreading skills than you do.

          1. Jaguar*

            Noticing a double-space is hardly proof of better proofreading skills. That’s like hitting a single note better than a professional singer one time and claiming you’re a better singer.

            1. Lehigh*

              I would assume that was just one example. If that is the only time she has ever corrected the OP’s work I wouldn’t expect it to register, let alone draw this kind of ire.

    4. JulieBulie*

      “She only flirts with a few select guys”
      What on earth are you trying to say? She isn’t flirting with enough people??

        1. Lehigh*

          You may be correct, but coupled with your other complaints (she’s younger than you yet was made Director first, she doesn’t dress the way you would prefer, she’s pretty, etc.) if I were your boss I wouldn’t give much credence to your assessment of her social skills or her motivations.

          It sounds like you don’t like her for a bunch of really awful reasons. Maybe she doesn’t fit in with the “girls” but she’s a grown woman and she’s doing her job (including pointing out mistakes). I would also note that if he says she’s from a “harder working” and “more professional” environment, he might be cluing you in that he considers her to represent a culture he would prefer for the office.

        2. Oryx*

          So, there’s a lot to unpack here but I’m going to be honest: based on everything else you’ve typed here, you strike me as a very unreliable narrator when it comes to this woman so it’s hard to take your complaint regarding her flirting seriously.

        3. neverjaunty*

          And your boss, who is signaling you very clearly that he has no problem with her working style.

          You’ve also managed to shoot yourself in the foot here on several levels. You complained about your title simply because they hired someone younger than you – and this was well before you knew anything about her. And if you went to your boss with the attitude you’re broaching here, you basically told him not to take your concerns seriously because they’re petty and inappropriate.

    5. Observer*

      You can’t, and you need to stop trying.

      You also need to stop policing her behavior. It’s really none of your business what she wears, or who she flirts with (as long as it’s not your SO nor someone in her direct reporting line.)

      The boss actually told you something very, very valuable – he thinks people maybe don’t work hard enough even though they are in the office. Also, apparently she came in with credentials that impressed the higher ups, and managed to negotiate a better package. That’s not “manipulative”. That’s doing what women are told to do – although this is a PERFECT example of the cost women pay when they do.

      If you want a better package, you have two choices. Either figure out what it will take to move up within your organization, or figure out what it will take to find a better job elsewhere.

    6. JamieS*

      So basically you don’t have a problem with how she looks but take issue with how she presents herself (attire), you and apparently the other women don’t like her but are upset she doesn’t socialize with you, and she negotiated some extra perks that you’re jealous of (seems like you’re implying she used her looks to get those perks but that could just be me).

      The correcting you over minor stuff and the complaining are plausibly legitimate issues but it would depend on your work.

      Regardless it seems like you’re letting your personal dislike color your opinion of her work habits. Would you be this upset over someone correcting you or making suggestions if you didn’t personally dislike them?

    7. Argh!*

      Calling adult women “girls” is a bad sign, for starters.

      Whether someone is a “fit” for the culture depends on their work ethic, not their clothing choices. There’s a line between calling someone a “bad fit” and being prejudiced against someone based on something that has nothing to do with the job.

    8. Maya Elena*

      I wouldn’t say you suffer from sexism, but you do have a case of resentment.

      I do think at least a modulated version of what you say is true: she probably knows she is attractive and she knows how to be congenial (ie lightly flirty), particularly with people who aren’t hostile to her for on the start.

      However, they probably wouldn’t like her half as much if she wasn’t also reasonably competent. And you aren’t doing yourself any favors with management by criticising her. So suck it up, admire her as a work of the Creator’s art, and make fewer typos.

    9. CheeryO*

      Boiling it down to the perceived culture fit issue, how do you know that her style doesn’t reflect a new direction that your company is consciously pursuing? Maybe “more professional, harder-working environment” was a bit of a pointed remark. The only thing I would even dream of commenting on to your boss would be some of the perks that she negotiated for, and that would be to try to make a case for the same thing for yourself, only be after a significant amount of time with excellent work and zero complaints about the new director.

      1. Marketing Mom*

        She’s been here almost a year and the culture is the same. No new direction whatsoever. She’s still outdressing everyone and has not made any friends. She’s still uptight and complaining.

          1. Marketing Mom*

            Our culture is VERY casual, think “roll out of bed.” Even the owners wear shorts and never wear suits. She wears a dress and very high heels. I know you’re all going to say she is just dressing professionally but her body does not make it look like that. She looks like a stripper with big boobs.

            1. Sunshine Brite*

              Wow. That’s quite inappropriate to compare her to a stripper and comment on her chest size because she wears a dress and heels.

            3. SCtoDC*

              This comment is gross and incredibly inappropriate. Women tearing down other women gets us nowhere.

            4. Myrin*

              I’m not even gonna touch how inappropriate those comments on her outfits are but I do want to say that even with regards to that, you’re not really making sense? Because if I hear that someone is “outdressing everyone” in a very casual environment, I picture that as them wearing ironed suits with a tie or something similar (which we actually had a letter about in the past!) when everyone else is wearing jeans and t-shirts. I’d assume that a very “laid back” office environment is actually the one where you can indeed wear short dresses and high heels without it being inappropriate.

            5. Lehigh*

              The selling point of a casual environment is you can wear whatever the hell you want. Why are you policing your coworkers’ clothing??

              1. strawberries and raspberries*

                Your director’s clothing, no less. If I found out that someone on my team was this full of contempt for me because I have large breasts and didn’t dress in goddamn pajamas for work every day, I can’t say I wouldn’t actually relish canning their ass.

                1. MLiz*

                  (Semi-off topic, how do you deal with button down blouses with said large chest? Because I sure should like to dress up more but button downs really give me issues and I’d love someone to weight in? (Yes, I should probably wear more dresses but there are other complications there.))

                2. Rainy*

                  Fashion tape if you aren’t confident with sewing. If you are, buy a card of clear plastic snaps and invisibly sew them in between the buttons that tend to gap.

                  Source: learnt to sew as a child, have very large breasts.

                4. MLiz*

                  I knew I should have learned to sew when I was younger.

                  Maybe I will make a project of it yet.

                  THANK YOU, I will try to put this advice to good use when work is getting less crazy again.

                5. dawbs*

                  If you can’t sew, good tailoring has been something I’ve found to be a lot cheaper than I’d ever have imagined.
                  (I have limited skill, limited time, and sometimes, it’s not worth risking a $50 item being wrecked by me when ‘my tailor’ can fix it for like $10 and she’s awesome)

              2. Troutwaxer*

                “Why are you policing your coworkers’ clothing??”

                Probably because she wants the office to continue being casual. Starting there, the threat to the way of life the OP enjoys is understandable, but the OP is phrasing her issues with the most sexist, mean-girls phrasing possible. So I’m going to try to unpack this in a non-sexist fashion:

                1.) OP likes the casual environment, and doesn’t want to play the “Who looks best in heels and a suit game” which is both expansive, and likely to end up with (young) winners and (older) losers. Essentially the new Director has introduced a new form of office politics where she has all the advantages – and she’s playing to male preferences and prejudices while she does so.

                2.) If I understand what I read, OP and the other woman are both directors and constantly correcting typos – she “marked down” for two spaces? WTF? – is a dick move meant to establish dominance, (unless the OP’s writings are going to production for use outside the office, in which case they do need to be perfect.)

                3.) The “flirts with some of the male employees” is actually threatening. It sounds like the office had previously been one where “flirting with male employees” didn’t happen, which brings the office interactions down a notch. And note the complaint: “…she does not have a rapport with anyone except for 3 guys and it’s just flirting.”

                4.) “She doesn’t socialize with anyone and walks around like everyone is beneath her.” Do I really have to explain to everyone why this is a problem? What we’re seeing is a new Director with poor social skills, no ability to show leadership without being haughty and imperious, and poor ability to interact with the other women at the company.

                The real problem with this round of advice-giving is that the OP didn’t phrase her complaints very politely. After reading everything above, I do have to believe that the OP is part of the problem, but mainly because she phrases things like a mean girl looking for a fight with another mean girl – and if she hadn’t done that we’d probably be giving much different advice.

                1. Jadelyn*

                  1: It’s not inherently “introducing a new kind of office politics” for someone to dress the way they like to dress for work. Nobody has asked OP to start dressing up and competing. And “playing to male preferences and prejudices”? Really? That’s a hell of a reach at best, and considering that OP is the definition of an unreliable narrator about this other women (I mean, she said she “looks like a stripper with big boobs”, come on, that’s not exactly the way someone who’s speaking objectively and rationally about a situation goes about criticizing a coworker’s appearance), I really wouldn’t rush to accept her interpretation that the coworker is dressing that way *for men’s approval*. Women are entirely capable of preferring to wear dresses and heels for a whole constellation of other reasons, and to reduce that to “playing to male preferences and prejudices” is super sexist.

                  2: I’m not sure where you’re getting “marked down” out of the OP? She said this coworker *noticed* and *mentioned* a small typo. Which, sure, is maybe not all that necessary, but maybe it just means she’s the conscientious type who notices everything like that. And since the OP is in marketing, I’d bet that their communications probably are going to external consumers of one sort or another, so the so-called “nitpicking” may be entirely justified.

                  3: Again, unreliable narrator. We only have OP’s word that this woman is “flirting” with 3 male employees. There are people who will read any friendly interaction between a man and a woman as flirting, and considering the nature of many of the OP’s complaints, I feel like it’s entirely possible that the new director is slow to establish professional rapport in general but has done so with a few people, and because of her jealousy OP is seeing it through a particular, sexualized lens, and misreading it as “flirting”.

                  4: Again (again), unreliable narrator. “Walks around like everyone is beneath her” is completely a subjective reading, and could mean nothing more than that she’s a hard worker who prefers to focus on her work and doesn’t do a lot of at-work socializing. Especially when the boss described her as coming from a “more professional and hard-working environment”, it sounds to me like OP’s office is not only laid back in dress, but they sound like they do a lot of socializing at work, and this new employee doesn’t do that because at her previous company people were expected to work more than socialize. Which OP is misconstruing as her thinking “everyone is beneath her”.

                  I just feel like you’re minimizing the nature of OP’s complaints as just being “not polite enough”, when the substance of the complaints themselves are really inappropriate – commenting on her body, for example – and sexist. Maybe there are legitimate problems with OP’s coworker not being a great culture fit, but at this point there’s no way for us to sift through the jealousy, sexism, and petty resentments to figure out if there’s anything legit in there to be worth complaining about or working on.

                2. Troutwaxer*

                  I definitely agree that the OP is part of the problem, and I agree that the OP should generally “up her game” as an employee, but I thought it was worthwhile to flense the sexism and general ugliness away from her complaints and explore what was really going on without the “mean girl” language. Sometimes when people get angry they speak from their worst selves, but that doesn’t mean the problem isn’t real.

                3. JamieS*

                  No I don’t care she phrased things like a mean girl. I looked at OP’s complaints on their own merit and determined they were petty.

                  1. One person isn’t going to change the culture. There has to be a large shift involving multiple people and if that happens that’s just evidence of many people wanting the shift. Regardless unless it’s put in the dress code, OP isn’t obligated to wear a dress just because other women do. Also assuming this woman dresses that way to play up to male preferences is extremely sexist. Women do have fashion senses that don’t revolve around what heterosexual males find attractive.

                  2. Her username is ‘Marketing Mom’s so it seems likely people outside the org will see her work. Regardless if part of the Director’s job is to proofread OP’s work then she’s just doing her job. If not then she probably has too much time on her hands

                  3. So what? This woman isn’t allowed to “flirt” with men she finds attractive because OP is threatened by it? Having a workplace where people sometimes flirt (assuming it’s mutual, not egregious, and there’s no funny business) isn’t a big deal. Coworkers date all the time. I also have doubts it’s actually flirting but that’s mainly because OP has shown herself to be an incredibly unreliable source.

                  4. This may actually be a problem. However given OP’s previous comments I seriously doubt how accurate her account is. Also if OP is representative of other coworkers the issue may be them freezing the new Director out rather than her having poor social skills.

                4. neverjaunty*

                  “the threat to the way of life the OP enjoys is understandable”

                  But there isn’t a “threat”, and that’s not what the OP is saying. She’s not complaining that the dress code got tightened up, or that grandboss is ordering them to adopt a less casual dress style. The complaints started before the director started, when the OP found out a younger woman was being hired to a senior position.

            6. MLiz*

              Okay. I will not comment on how your tone is really not appropriate, because Alison and others have done it.

              So she dresses up in comparison to others. Why does it bother you? I mean, sure everyone is very casual at your workplace, but unless you have a written dresscode that says “no formal wear allowed”, then I really don’t see the point. Maybe that’s her “work uniform” and she wants/needs this for work mode. Maybe she derives confidence from the way she dresses. Maybe she has a huge inferiority complex and that gives her the kick she needs to go to the office in the morning. Maybe it makes her feel good. Maybe she plain likes dressing up.

              I don’t see how that is any skin off your nose as long as it stays within the realm of appropriateness.

            7. Jadelyn*

              Do you hear yourself talk? You are specifically commenting on HER BODY. Not just her clothes, but the body underneath those clothes and how it supposedly makes those clothes look. Which is something she has very limited control over! And not something ANYONE in a professional environment should be judging someone else based on! How do you still think this is a justified line of complaint?

            8. Rocky the Lemur*

              Going to address another part of this comment.

              Culture change takes YEARS, and it’s hardly an expectation in any organization that I’ve worked in that one new employee would result in (let alone be expected) to shift culture. And never in less than a year.

              Also roll-out-of-bed casual isn’t actually appealing to some people, so that alone may be something your leadership hopes to change. I personally would be turned off by an organization where people dressed “below casual” (is this the new term for slob?). It may be good for you, but is it possible that is part of what they are trying to change. And just because the bosses don’t follow along by picking up their game doesn’t mean they don’t want it to happen.

              1. JamieS*

                Yeah I’d hate that kind of culture. I literally wear the first clean shirt I see in the morning, choose my hairstyle based on what will take me no more than 5 minutes to do, and wear zero makeup excepting special circumstances. Yet even I wouldn’t show up to work wearing what sounds like basically pajamas.

                I mean come on Marketing Mom essentially said someone who dresses like a “stripper” dresses more professionally than everyone else. What must they be wearing?!

                1. Rocky the Lemur*

                  I had to laugh because I, too, choose ‘clean today’ as my style, no makeup … but yes, I’m my minds eye I see people wearing stained sweatpants and then this poor woman who is “done up” and making effort.

        2. Oryx*

          I really have no idea what her clothes have to do with anything. And, make no mistake, I work in a very, very casual environment. Like, our internal recruiter wears flip flops and shorts during summer, even when he was interviews that day. Our C-suite managers wear jeans. Most people wear jeans.

          So if my one colleague, who is a director as it happens, wants to wear pencil skirts, nice blouses, and high heels every day, what do I care? Her desire to wear that doesn’t mean I have to start. If that’s what makes her comfortable and confident to do her job I don’t understand the issue.

    11. Jessie the First (or second)*

      This whole comment, and your follow up posts, are sexist and gross.

      Sexist: calling her good negotiation skills manipulating.
      Sexist: complaining about how she wears heels and talking about how her body looks in her clothes.
      Sexist: calling her professional boundaries (she isn’t socializing enough with everyone, according to you) being uptight.
      Sexist: referring to grown women as “girls.”
      Given all this, I’m also going to call your claim that she flirts with a few men sexist, because you seem like an unreliable narrator here, and there are people who seem to feel that friendliness = flirtation if this regular friendliness is being performed by a woman who is attractive.

      Please reconsider how you are viewing women in the workplace.

      In addition, her corrections and edits to your work? You call yourself “marketing mom.” If you are in marketing, you *need* to be nit-picky. A typo, an extra space – these matter and mistakes need to be fixed. Sounds as if she is doing her job and being thorough.

    12. Nerdling*

      You can’t, don’t, and shouldn’t. For your own sake. Seriously. Please don’t if you want to keep this job.

      Everyone else has got the rampant misogyny you’ve got going and need to take the time to unpack, so I’m just going to focus on encouraging you not to keep at your boss about the other Director. You’re going to absolutely destroy your credibility at this company if you don’t take several steps back, and that could (and should, if you don’t stop pushing this line of thinking) result in you getting fired.

    13. OperaArt*

      Do you understand how you are coming across here? When I ignore the judgemental language, to me you are describing a polished, professional, confident woman, possibly with training in continuous process improvement, who is doing her work . You need to step back—there’s no way you can have a conversation with your boss that isn’t going to make you look bad.

    14. Not So NewReader*

      I have read down through all the comments and wow.
      Okay here is where this is at, if you cannot find ways to get along with her then you have just lost your job. By “lost your job” I mean you will end up seeking work else where because the situation is hopeless for you. This person has gotten under your skin and is festering there. You cannot find one thing likable about her. Think about this. Did you ever work with someone who could not find anything likable about you? It sucked, right?
      You don’t have to like her but you do have to work with her.
      So rock your job. Knock it out of the ball park. Go back to square one and make sure you are at YOUR best in your work.

      If this answer here is not resonating with you, it could very well be that now is the time to begin your job search. The few times I have had people really annoy me at work I ended up leaving the job. So lesson learned. People will annoy us, it is best to start asap figuring out ways to let go of that annoyance or we end up between a rock and a hard place.

  20. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

    I posted a couple of weeks ago about interviewing internally. I have found out that it’s between me and one other external candidate who was brought in for a group interview. I am not having a group interview because I already know the team. The hiring manager (who is also my current manager) told me all of this, so this is direct info. Then he said, “I don’t plan to make a decision this week, so don’t panic if you haven’t heard anything by Friday (today).” I was originally told by HR that a decision would be made by LAST Friday. I guess I just figured since I was internal and this reported to my own manager that it would be a little faster to get an answer and this is just a vent at how slow the hiring process can be.

    1. Samiratou*

      I feel your pain. I interviewed with my boss for a manager position over 3 weeks ago now. He said he had planned to have it hired by end of the month, but I’ve heard nothing. I’m going by the usual advice to assume I’m not getting it, but it’s disappointing and hard.

      Particularly since my husband is unemployed and was hospitalized earlier this month (he’s fine, but $$$ we can’t afford) and with a kid’s birthday and holidays coming up the extra income would be super awesome.

      Best of luck to you–I hope they make the decision soon and you get the job!

  21. Normally A Lurker*

    Ok, I’m a long term temp in a desk I love. They cannot hire me (for reasons I think I believe?)

    I’ve been here for a little over a year, and recently asked for a raise. It’s now been a month and they keep telling me “they’ll get back to me” about the raise.

    How do I handle this?

    If they aren’t going to hire me, I need the raise. If they aren’t going to give me the raise, I need to leave.

    So far, the raise process has been going through my temp company.

    Do I ask my direct manager about it? Or the woman in charge of all the admins on my floor? Or keep asking my temp company? Just find a new gig?

    HELP!

    1. La Revancha*

      Ask your temp company. They are the ones who pay you and the company pays them.

      and I would find a new gig. I was hired as a temp after I moved to a new city and told it was temp to hire. Shortly after I was hired I realized that I was a temp because my boss couldn’t get approval for a new full time position for whatever reason. 5 months later, still a temp, so I applied to a full time position with the company. My old boss went through 3-4 more temps, then 2 years later finally got approval for the position.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Your temp company would have to set that up because in order to give you a pay raise, they will need to raise the amount they are charging the company.

      Tell them “I need to know by X (give them at least 48 hours, if not a full week) if this raise is going through. If not, I need to begin a job search.” That should work.

      1. Trout 'Waver*

        Not always. Temp agencies will try to pass along costs, but aren’t always necessarily successful. I’ve gotten temps on my team raises in the past that weren’t passed along to our business.

    3. Cloud Nine Sandra*

      Start looking for new work. Unless you know who at your office is in charge of the temp budget, your temp agency is probably the best bet. (I successfully negotiated myself a raise as a temp, but my temp agency is so very hands off, that was the method that made the most sense.)

      I bet you’ll find a position you love where you can get a raise after a year.

  22. KK*

    Hi all,

    Juicy stuff today! (Sorry, I know this is long, but please bear with me because this is CRAZY stuff!)
    Just thought I’d provide yet another update. I’ve written in the previous two weeks on the open thread. Two weeks ago, I wrote about being uncomfortable providing my boss with documentation in order to get my supervisor fired (even though she is indeed horrible). Last week, I wrote about how the unthinkable happened, and my BOSS ended up getting fired, after being the General Manager of our 25-person branch for 18 years. At that time, I didn’t have any details about why he was fired. Now I do…

    Essentially, we are a teapot refinishing business, and May-August are extremely busy months for our salespeople. We dominate the industry in teapot refinishing business in our city, so our 6 sales reps are completely overworked every summer. The reps, for years, have wanted to turn down jobs on account that they were working every day of the week, and losing out on valuable family time. However, my boss basically wouldn’t allow them to decline jobs. Instead, he offered to help the reps refinish all their customers’ teapots with them so it would take less time….if they paid him 30-50% of their commission (depending on how big of a refinishing job it was). Our sales reps’ only source of income is commission, while my boss probably made at least $300k/year. Also, a huge expectation of Boss’s job under his normal income is to help the reps refinish teapots. It was completely unethical for him to take cuts of reps’ income in addition to his salary (he was basically stealing money from his own employees, in my opinion.) The reps all questioned whether Boss requiring them to give a cut of their commission to him had been approved by our corporate office. Boss assured them it had (it hadn’t, obviously), but that they should “keep it under wraps, because our branch got special approval for it that other branches hadn’t gotten.” (we have about 30 branches nationwide). Anyway, this had been going on for TEN YEARS without anyone blowing the whistle on him, even though the reps’ still speculated whether boss was “allowed” to do this. The reason our reps went along with it for so long is that their yearly bonuses determined strictly based on their yearly sales bonuses. My boss had convinced them that they’d get much bigger year-end bonuses if they took all the refinishing jobs they could, because their large bonuses would “more than make up the cut that [boss] was taking from each job.” And of course, it was helping boss out to require our reps to enlist his help and take the jobs, because HIS bonus was determined by the whole branch’s sale numbers (pretty good gig for him, huh? Bigger bonus and earning commission as a GM!)

    Oh, and here’s another kicker…boss was requiring the reps to pay him “his cut” in CASH, so uh…tax evasion! One rep said that he thought he’d paid boss into SIX FIGURES over the past 10 years (!) Anyway, I’m not sure if my company is going to press charges or not. I’m just still floored by the whole situation. Boss definitely had a way of talking people into doing things, and making people think that he was always looking out for your best interest. I’m sure everyone is wondering how it possibly took ten years for someone to go to corporate which resulted in his firing, but if you knew Boss…it’s not that shocking.

    Side note: The morning boss was fired, corporate called him to have a meeting at our office. Boss, thinking the meeting was to discuss firing my supervisor, said “no, I’m hungry, let’s meet at Waffle House instead.” So…he was fired at Waffle House. Then, they proceeded to take his keys to his truck (company vehicle), and called him a driver to take Boss home from Waffle House.

      1. KK*

        Hahaha yes, it’s my favorite part of the whole thing. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall at Waffle House. Like…did they fire him after he ate his meal? Before the meal even came? Before he even ordered? I would love to know!

        1. Sigrid*

          Did they deliver the news when he had just put a really big bite of waffle in his mouth?? That is what I am imagining and it is GLORIOUS.

        2. Corky's wife Bonnie*

          Holy crap, that’s awesome! Reminds me of the scene in Jerry Maguire where they took him to a restaurant to fire him so he wouldn’t make a scene.

      1. KK*

        She’s…still crappy. We’ve had some managers from our corporate office in and out this past week, and of course she’s on her best behavior when they’re here. When they’re not, she’s just as terrible – showing up hours later (in a time where she’s really needed now that boss is gone!), leaving early, not replying to important emails, not sharing relevant information with employees, berating employees, etc.

        The managers at corporate say they’re “still keeping an eye on her”, but I don’t know what to believe at this point considering I was led to believe she’d be fired months ago!

        1. Observer*

          Well, now you know that NOTHING your boss said is reliable, so who knows.

          What I would do is make a package of everything you gave your boss and send it to HR, with a note that given what happened to your boss, you realized that it’s possible he was holding back significant details.

      1. KK*

        Haha I honestly still feel like it’s someone else’s drama. I never would have imagined something like this would have happened at MY place of work. I think it’s a story I’ll still be telling friends 20 years from now.

    5. SnarkyLibrarian*

      Your update is amazing! What a crazy story, I can’t believe your boss got away with that for Ten. Years. And the Waffle House bit is just sweet sweet icing on the cake.

      1. Kathenus*

        I think you’ve hit upon gold! This could be the next Hamilton. Ask A Manager, The Musical – what an amazing concept. Now I’ll be wasting lots of time today trying to think of the other acts.

          1. Jean (just Jean)*

            LOL.
            Drop feather-shaped confetti from the ceiling for the finale. (Real feathers will float rather than fall.)
            Then make it a running gag for the rest of the show: every so often, “quack” sounds from offstage and another “feather” falls from above.

        3. LizB*

          My Boss Sucks (And Isn’t Going To Change) – a mournful ballad, with at least three reprises before the character decides to move on

        4. Kathenus*

          A reoccurring song that happens throughout the play – “No, it’s not illegal, just stupid”

        5. Anon attorney*

          How Long (I Need To Know) – a stirring torch song about that no good hiring manager who hasn’t got back to you yet.

      3. aglaia761*

        I just want to make sure that gold spray painted naked Barbies are included in some shape or form. Maybe as audience giveaways.

    10. CatCat*

      WOW!!!!

      “Anyway, I’m not sure if my company is going to press charges or not.”

      I mean… I get why the company wouldn’t want to get itself slogged into a criminal matter, but good luck keeping past or current sales reps from alerting authorities.

      1. KK*

        I really hope they do, honestly.

        It’s rather odd though (but shows me how Boss had warped their minds), some of them act SAD that he’s gone, despite him essentially stealing their money. He was really, really good with customers and knowledgeable of the energy, which I get, but come on…he’s a sleaze!

    11. Chriama*

      That is a pretty huge revelation. But honestly I’m kind of not surprised. The way he was handling your supervisor issue was pretty unethical to begin with, although back then you were still under the impression that he was on your side and just maybe not as proactive as you wanted him to be. I know hindsight is 20/20 but it really doesn’t surprise me that someone who would knowingly put you in that position would also screw other people over for his own benefit.

      1. KK*

        I totally agree with you. He always acted “buddy buddy” with me, so I think it was easy for me to ignore the fact that he could be conniving and sneaky about a lot of things.

    12. This Daydreamer*

      Woah. You said juicy and certainly delivered.

      Am I the only one who thinks that agreeing to hold the meeting at Waffle House was a deliberately not-nice thing to do? The image of him being fired mid-bite is amazing, along with having to get a ride back to the workplace. It would have been much kinder to make it a five minute meeting in the office.

      But this guy had been pulling this scam for ten freaking years. I really can’t blame the higher ups.

      1. KK*

        I had the same thought at first; why wouldn’t they just say, “no, we need to meet at the office.”? But then like you, I reasoned that by that point, they’d probably just lost all respect for him and didn’t care if the Waffle House firing would potentially be mortifying for him.

      2. JamieS*

        Might just be me but I actually think it’s kinder to be fired at Waffle House than the office. I know I’d rather be canned away from the office then pick my stuff up later when nobody’s there (or have it shipped) instead of fired at the office and doing the Walk of Shame with everyone watching.

    13. Triangle Pose*

      THANK YOU for sharing this, I am totally shocked by this saga.

      I have to ask, how did the reps fall for this for TEN YEARS, did they never talk to the reps in the other regions and figure out from the other reps that it is part of Boss’s regular job to help them with refinishing and that Boss cannot take a cut of their commissions??? Every sales organization I’ve ever worked with had sales retreats or SOME gathering every year where all the sales folks get together to disseminate information like this. It definitely would have come out…

  23. Em*

    There’s no break room at my work, so I eat my lunch in my cube. My coworker said, “I can hear you *chewing*” over the wall the other day as I was finishing up chips. What is the norm around chewing sounds at lunchtime? Should I only eat extremely soft foods at work?

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Some people are very neurotic about the sound of chewing, chips particularly (also apples and carrots) – it’s called misophonia, we had a whole debate about it this week on the thread and I’ll post the link in my next comment. Personally, I think this needs to be their thing to manage, not yours. Chew as quietly as you can of course but suggest they look into ear plugs or taking a walk when you’re eating, maybe? But others may have more insights from the perspective of the person who gets annoyed.

      2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        Agreed. Be considerate, obviously — don’t chew with your mouth open, pay attention to whether you’re an abnormally loud chewer, etc. — but you’re allowed to eat. You don’t have to adjust your diet for your cube neighbor’s aural preferences.

      3. Iris Eyes*

        Don’t forget about celery, which also has a weirdly specific smell. There was a patron at a library I worked at who would come in and eat multiple stocks of celery, every day. I don’t have misophonia but that was annoying.

    2. Queen of the File*

      Do others eat at their desks? Is your mouth closed? I have an open-mouth chewer across from me and I admit the mouth sounds get pretty distracting. Otherwise I think as long as your mouth is closed and it’s not like, crunching all day… maybe your coworker should consider earphones.

      1. Em*

        Everyone eats at their desks and I’m definitely a closed-mouth chewer. Maybe my ears aren’t as sensitive, but I can’t hear them eating, ever.

        1. JamieS*

          If everyone eats at their desk has this coworker complained to others about their chewing or just you? If it’s several others it sounds like he’s just oversensitive to the sound of chewing. Otherwise I’d consider the possibility you actually do chew unusually loud.

      2. Infinity Anon*

        It’s distracting. My dad chews with his mouth open and it drives me crazy, but he is unable to breath through his nose so it isn’t really his fault. I couldn’t eat with my mouth closed as a child until my tonsils were removed. I would get yelled at about it and was genuinely confused about how everyone else could eat and breath at the same time.

    3. Sarah*

      I put my space heater fan on while I eat to cover any sounds, just in case. Not that everyone should have to, but if it’s an issue with your coworker, maybe something to think about.

    4. Holly Flax*

      This is not your problem, especially at lunch time. I shared an office with a coworker who made heinous chewing, lip smacking and slurping noises when he ate and I never called him out on it. I dealt with it by putting on my headphones to drown out the noise. If you were constantly snacking on loud foods throughout the day, then she would be a bit more justified in speaking out, but a bag of chips at lunch is perfectly acceptable imo.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        that’s true, there is a bit of a side-eye here for the employee who nom nom noms all day on crunchy foods. It’s not really fair but we’re all at the tyranny of the open office, trying not to kill each other, doing the best we can. If you can eat something quieter for snack, especially if you snack more than once a day, I think that is a kindness that may boost your karma.

      2. Thlayli*

        If you are eating with your mouth closed then it’s her problem to deal with not yours. Tell her to listen to music.
        On another note, I’m now wondering if my sister has this misophonia thing. The number of times she has told me I’m eating too loud is ridiculous. Noone else ever says anything and I’m eating with my mouth closed so I don’t see how I can be any quieter.

    5. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      Well, no. I mean, it’s good to observe general eating etiquette, but even closed-mouth chewing sometimes makes noise, that’s just how it is. And you have to eat.

      I have misophonia and it’s completely awful to have such a reaction to something so mundane. But I see it as my problem to deal with. I have headphones, I can get up and take a walk, I can take deep breaths and focus on inner stillness. I just don’t think it’s on anyone else to manage my sound environment for me, whether I can control my inner reaction or not. Your coworker was in the wrong, IMO.

      It can’t be fun to eat while wondering whether your coworker is seething at you, so, sorry you have to deal with that. But if you get snapped at again, feel free to suggest headphones. They work splendidly for me.

    6. Nerdling*

      No, you’re good. Your coworker just needs to do like I do and grab some headphones. The sound of other people chewing, if it’s all I can hear, makes me outrageously angry and nauseated for no good reason, so when my coworkers are eating at their desks, I tune into YouTube and let them eat in peace because I know my reaction is unreasonable.

  24. Postdoc*

    I got a postdoc position!! I have been getting so nervous because it seemed like I was not getting any serious responses to my inquiries, but a lab that interviewed me a couple months ago and then told me that they weren’t ready to hire on their initial time frame reached out to offer me the job! The main thing that has kept me sane was taking Alison’s advice to send out applications and go to the interviews and then move on instead of dwelling on whether they were going to ever get back to me. I had thought that the lab had given me a “soft no”. Turns out that they actually were just busy.

  25. Morning Glory*

    I was recently in the running for a position that went to the reference check stage two weeks ago. At this point, I think I did not get the position, and am moving on with my job search.

    This is the first time I’ve ever had a job contact my references without getting the job, so I am not sure what’s the best practice for communicating to them I am continuing my job search, and may ask them to be a reference for another position in the future? Or should I not say anything now, and wait until I get to the reference stage again before reaching out, since that may not be for several months.

    I feel awkward enough about this that I’ve been putting off applying to new positions, which I know is ridiculous – but I don’t want to annoy my contacts by asking them to be a reference for me too often.

    1. Weekday Warrior*

      I’m on the opposite side of this right now. I’m dying to know if the person I provided a reference for got the job. I’m fighting the temptation to ask her if there’s news because she’s either at the confidential stage of finalizing her acceptance or she hasn’t heard anything one way or another. I do expect her to drop me a quick email once she has some news to share. Hope your news will be good!

      1. Morning Glory*

        That’s really helpful, to know you expect an update either way from your referee – thank you!

    2. Infinity Anon*

      Ask when it is relevant again. Since you haven’t heard back at all there is still a chance you will get the job and it is just a slow process. Keep applying and reach out when another employer asks for your references. It is a normal part of the process.

    3. C*

      If you turn out to not get the job based on the reference check, you should evaluate if one of your references needs to be replaced.

      1. Morning Glory*

        That’s a valid warning and I appreciate it – but I got the sense throughout the entire recruitment process that I was a backup candidate, from certain things they said. I think at least two of us went to the reference stage.

        So I don’ think it’s a red flag yet but it’s definitely something to consider if I make it to the reference stage again and don’t get it (and, I haven’t even officially not gotten this one yet).

        1. nonegiven*

          They may even be waiting for the other candidate to accept or decline, or to actually start work.

  26. Monstersof-Men*

    I just took a week off for a trip in Mexico. I came back and caught up on everything within a day and am now back to my normal routine. I want to ask for another week off in December — even though we get Christmas off, my birthday is at the beginning of December and my partner and I are going to drive the California coast.

    My boss was reluctant to let me go on this vacation because he was worried I wouldn’t keep on top of things — but I managed to successfully! How should I approach my next vacation? I would appreciate some scripts.

    PS Vacation time is not an issue as this is a front-line healthcare profession job so I can get coverage to get time off.

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Hmm. It feels like a bit much to me (1 week in late October, 1 week in early December, whatever time you get off at Christmas), but it depends so much on the context (how much vacation do folks usually take? how long have you been at your employer? what is your reputation? etc.).

      1. Monstersof-Men*

        I didn’t expect to get this position, so these vacations were pre-planned when I was working shift work for the municipal government, as I was just a clerk and could be gone without a care. I would have never planned it like this had I known I was going to get this job!

        1. KMB213*

          FWIW, I don’t think that’s a ton of time off, as long as this isn’t a busy time for your company.

          However, I always ask for time for any pre-planned trips off during the offer stage, and I definitely ask more than a month in advance (if possible). I understand that you waited so you could show your boss that you could quickly catch up after a trip, but is there a reason you didn’t mention the December trip during the offer stage?

    2. La Revancha*

      I agree with Victoria’s comment. Ideally, you would have mentioned this to your employer sooner to get approval. What about just taking a couple of days off vs a whole week?

      I’m an avid traveler as well and always stagger out my vacations. I just spent 2 weeks in Portugal (I was off 11 business days) and I would not feel comfortable asking for more than 2 days off probably until February or March (I do plan on taking 3 days off at the end of March).

      Also, it never hurts to ask. I don’t think there is a right way to persuade your employer, just depends on the relationship you have with them and how lenient they are.

    3. La Revancha*

      Oops, one more comment. When I approach my boss with vacations that are pre-planned – always phrase it was “I was thinking about taking these days off for x, do you think that would be possible?” so they don’t feel blindsided or pressured into saying yes.

    4. Mints*

      It’s a pet peeve of mine when people (bosses/employers) are stingy with vacation time. Like maybe it’s more or less convenient do a day at a time or a whole two weeks, so that’s a fair consideration. But it’s a perk you earned so you get to use it!
      I’m not helpful I’m just commiserating

      1. La Revancha*

        I agree, I think my main point is the person who posted the question just returned from vacation and already wants to take another week in a month. Ideally, you mention these things in advance especially if they are pre-planned.

    5. Kathenus*

      I agree with La Revancha about presenting it as a request, see if it’s possible, versus an expectation. But other than that, my personal opinion is you just ask. Don’t play into your boss’s issue on this by censoring your behavior and not asking to use your benefit. That said, also don’t visibly react negatively if it’s turned down.

      In my industry we are coverage based, so only a certain number of people can be off at a time. I never have a problem at all with people asking, we approve when we can, decline when we can’t accommodate it. It’s not personal, just part of the job to administer time off requests and scheduling.

    6. Dealtwiththis*

      I personally don’t think this is too much. My last vacation was in March and was just a couple of days tacked on to a business trip. I’m about to take a week at the beginning of November, two weeks off for Christmas (because I will lose vacation days if I don’t!) and then a week off again in January. Those months are slow times for my position and if I didn’t take the vacation now, I wouldn’t be able to fit something in again until June. So, I think it’s a know your office deal and your work load.

      When approaching your boss, I would make sure to mention that you are being thoughtful of busy times and losing vacation days if those things are true.

  27. Lil Fidget*

    Gosh I needed this today. My newest colleague is quitting, and I’m having Too Many Feelings about it. As Alison says, people quit jobs, it’s not personal. But I spent a lot of time training this employee, and she left after only eight months. She didn’t even give two week’s notice. That time was all wasted! And now, all her work is going to fall 100% on my shoulders until we replace her … and the cycle continues.

    My boss is WAY too nice IMO – he paid for a “goodbye lunch” and I’m sure will give her a great reference, and I’m the only one who is hacked and having a lot of feelings. It’s been hard for me to even be pleasant with her and wish her well. I’m also just feeling like this must be my fault – like, did I do a bad job training and working with her, is that why she started job searching? Should I have done something differently? How can I keep this from happening again?

    I need to let it go. Today is her last day and I hope she hasn’t been able to tell that I’m so hacked.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      It’s probably not your fault; something may have fallen into her lap, or maybe she did just take this job to fill in a gap, or any one of a dozen other reasons. But I’d definitely visit with the boss about the workload and see what needs to be priority, or if there are some things you can delegate in the meantime (leaving the feelings out of it, as much as possible).

      If this is a recurring pattern, I’d guess either their hiring practices aren’t that great, or your boss isn’t that great. Maybe time to look around and see what’s out there?

    3. Blue*

      What your boss is doing doesn’t seem unreasonable. If goodbye lunches are standard, she should get one. And if she did a good job, she should get a good reference.

      Can you do an exit interview with her? Or have someone else do it, since you seem a bit close to the situation.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Yeah sadly HR does do an exit interview, but I won’t get to hear anything from it – I’m not her supervisor, I’m just the person above her (so like I’m a project lead and she’s a project associate on my project, but doesn’t report to me). I think I just wasted too much time training her so that’s why I feel put out. Next time, I’ll let someone else show the new person the ropes and not feel like that’s my role. I think it should slightly ding your reference to not even stay one year and not give standard notice! I’d be tempted to say something more like, “oh, we only had dear abileen such a short time it’s hard for me to really comment on her performance, but on the whole she seemed to be learning her tasks pretty well in the time she was here.” Then again, I’m still having Feelings. Maybe in a few months I’ll be over it and would be able to just say what she did while she was here.

        1. JamieS*

          The notice thing is an issue but are you sure she didn’t give notice to her boss earlier and/or didn’t have a very compelling reason for not giving notice that would make it understandable? Depending on context I might mention she left the company in a lurch but I probably wouldn’t change my evaluation of her work over it. If she actually completed work you can point to I’d feel like I were lying by omission if I led the reference checker to believe she was just learning the ropes and hadn’t made any sort of real contribution yet.

    4. This Daydreamer*

      She got a higher paying job. Her husband has been relocated to Nome, Alaska. Her parents thought your boss was a heathen and told her that she’d be disowned if she didn’t quit. Her commute took her past her ex’s sister’s hairdresser’s workplace and it was too painful. She hated the plant on your desk and quit before she felt compelled to throw it through the window. Who knows? Maybe she’s just a flake.

      If she had a problem with you she should have told you or your boss, so that’s totally on her. Was she doing a good job? If so, then you must have trained her well. This is totally not your fault. But I agree that it sucks. You finally got some help with the workload and she couldn’t even stay for a freaking year. I hope you get a fantastic replacement soon.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Thank you! She definitely got a higher paying job offer. But like, I feel like she must have been job searching. We’re not at the level in our career (neither of us!) where job offers just fall into your lap. And she was pretty well paid here with full benefits – but I will tell myself she just really needed more money and that was why she was looking. So that I can sleep at night :P

        1. nonegiven*

          Maybe she had only just applied before she got your employer’s offer and her new employer had a really long hiring process.

    5. Tassie Tiger*

      I’ve had similar experiences–people leaving after I put a lot into training them. Here’s what I tell myself, “It’s not wasted time. I got practice training. I learned some new ways to communicate. And I’ll train the next person even better.” It helps a bit.

  28. Meyla*

    Last week I posted about being unsure whether to jump ship when all of my coworkers are or are planning to. It’s been an up-and-down week. We had a meeting with our new COO where he told us that processes are going to change, management is going to change, and we are going to get more support than we have been getting. I think I know specifically which “management” he’s talking about, and I would welcome that change. He took responsibility for a lot of our problems and apologized, which is way more than anyone else has done since I’ve worked here.
    However, now our department heads are fighting openly in the common workspace. I mean arguing loudly about us while we’re sitting within earshot trying to work. One of those managers has told his team not to help my team anymore since my manager had a disagreement with him. It’s baffling to me how these grown men can act so juvenile. I thought we were all on the same side here…

    Anyway, so I haven’t made any progress in deciding whether or not to start looking for a new job. I respond to all LinkedIn messages from recruiters with “Please ask me again in February”.

    1. Bend & Snap*

      ehhhh I’d start now since that doesn’t sound super stable. Looking doesn’t mean you have to leave.

      I’ve taken every appropriate interview for the last 2 years and haven’t found the right fit. I’m not actively job searching but I still take the calls. It’s a good checkpoint for evaluating how things are going in my current role and whether something better is coming along.

    2. Artemesia*

      I’d have started the job search yesterday. You don’t have to take a new job but the process of getting organized and searching is sooooo drawn out that when thinks are going badly you want to hit the ground running.

    3. Infinity Anon*

      You loose nothing by looking. Right now is a good time to look because you can afford to be picky and if things go bad you will know what jobs are out there and already have an updated resume.

    4. Observer*

      Start looking TODAY, not in February. You can always turn something down. The COO may have the best intentions, and may even be eventually successful in turning things around. But what you are describing is so dysfunctional that it may take more time that you should devote, and if that turns out to be the case the further ahead you are with your job search, the better off you are.

      1. Meyla*

        Since everyone’s kinda feeling the same way, I’ll say that the reason why I don’t want to look right this second is because we get retirement matching lump-sum at the end of the year, and I don’t want to miss out on that. I suspect in January my team will be even smaller than it is now. I don’t really want to interview now and tell an employer “I can’t work for you until January, is that cool?”

        Or maybe that’s not unusual?

        1. Bend & Snap*

          That’s two months away. Many interview processes take that long. Get going! :)

          If you get an offer sooner you can always either try to negotiate a later start time or the value of your pending bonus as a signing bonus.

        2. Chaordic One*

          I’ll never forget being fired from my last job (on the day before the profit-sharing bonuses were paid out).

  29. Berry*

    Does your office provide coffee?

    I’ve worked at two places so far: a small family owned business that had a Keurig that was gross but did the job and a medium-sized “hip” company with a bunch of perks including good coffee.

    I’ve heard of some really big companies (including IBM and Viacom) that don’t have any coffee at all in their office, and was wondering what the spread was like!

    1. Morning Glory*

      My office has coffee, tea, and hot chocolate – plus a couple latte/cappuccino machines. I would find it a questionable business decision for a company not to have caffeine on-site for its employees.

    2. T3k*

      Company I’ve been at for 6 weeks has both coffee machines downstairs (not a Keurig but almost industrial type thing). They also have a mini coffee place in a nearby building, but I don’t know if they have to pay for those as I don’t drink coffee.

    3. eUGH*

      We seem to only stick to the large jars of Nescafe or tea. Last job had cordials, get good coffee (regular and decaf) when it was on sale at the local supermarket, and cordial and hot chocolate powder in the winter.

    4. lineby*

      I am intrigued to see what the answers are to this!
      I have worked for 2 non-profits. The first switched from not providing coffee or tea, to getting a terrible coffee machine that everyone hated and getting rid of all the hot water machines so you couldn’t use anything else. They did start providing tea bags as well though.
      My current company provides tea bags and instant coffee which I only drink when I am completely desperate. I’m in the UK so providing tea is more important than coffee really!

      1. Pat Benetardis*

        I used to work at a Fortune 500 company, you would definitely recognize the name. We had Flavia machines (like a fancier Keurig). One day we came in and they all had slots for quarters. Yup, we had to pay for coffee. I started hoarding quarters. And the effect it had was that in nice weather we would leave the compound in the afternoon and walk to a coffee shop nearby. Minimum of 25 minutes spent. So they lost in productivity more than they made in charging for the coffee. It just baffled my mind – don’t they want employees wide awake and focused?

    5. extra anon today*

      I’ve always worked in government (federal and local level) and neither have been allowed by law to provide food or beverages at tax payers’ expense unless it is a “special occasion,”

      1. LCL*

        Me too. The persons with bigger pockets or a more generous heart buy the coffee. I provide the keurig cups, someone else buys the bulk bagged coffee and powdered creamer and sugar. We have a donation box up for the little cups of cream, but that isn’t working well-massive consumption with minimal contribution. The only thing the company provides is cups.

      2. Hrovitnir*

        I generally don’t comment on this when it comes up, but I find this approach (US government jobs being this tight because !!taxes!!) super depressing. :/

    6. Malibu Stacey*

      The only office where I worked that didn’t provide was when I worked for a city department – there was actually an ordinance on the books that they could not provide food & beverages for employees. Everything from office coffee & bottled water to holiday and retirement parties was employee paid. It kind stunk but the benefits at that job were amazing.

    8. It's all Fun and Dev*

      I’ve worked in three different jobs, and it’s been different at each. One was a small family owned business, and they provided excellent local coffee and premium tea (one of the managers would send an assistant to Whole Foods every few weeks to stock up on whatever flavors people wanted). Then I moved to a tiny private college, where my staff kitchen was on the president’s floor. We also had coffee and tea, but just the bare bones. Now I’m at a huge public university and our budget allows for Folger’s coffee and powdered creamer, nothing else. Folks pitch in a few cents here and there to buy special creamers or whatever, but I prefer mine black.

      What I’ve been most interested in is the variance in kitchen set up. At my first job, we had basically a full kitchen – coffee maker, hot water kettle, microwave, toaster over, dishwasher, and full sets of dishes (plates, bowels, cups, cutlery, cutting boards, you name it). Second job was also a mostly full kitchen, but the dishes were brought in by individuals (people would go to Goodwill to get 10 forks for $1 when we were running low). Now, there’s a microwave and an industrial coffee maker, and that’s it. There’s usually disposable plates/cutlery left over from events or whatever, but it was a real change from what I was used to!

    9. Bend & Snap*

      i work for a F50 and we have free coffee, tea, hot chocolate and water, vending machines everywhere, a coffee shop where we get discounted fancy coffee, food and other kinds of drinks, as well as a cafeteria where healthy food is subsidized and there’s cheap coffee out of carafes.

    10. Fishsticks*

      I’m working a small law firm, but we share space with a massive international firm and I can get anything from the kitchen. It has a Keurig and a coffee maker with coffee, hot chocolate, and tea options as well as a vending machine for snacks. (When I leave I’m desperately going to miss this)

    11. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      My OldJob provided coffee, nothing special, just pots of regular coffee or decaf. This place has a keurig and a regular coffee pot but it’s a small charge ($0.25) per cup for the regular and I think keurig is only if you bring in your own.

    12. IBM-Anon*

      I work for IBM, and we have coffee here (and sodas and red bull and tea and all kinds of snacks). Our office is not the “IBM HQ” but we have 100 employees in this office. I’ve been to one other IBM office and they also had coffee, though I haven’t been to the giant corporate offices so maybe that’s the difference.

    13. zora*

      My current company is a PR firm and they provide coffee and tea in all the offices. Some offices even provide snacks (but there’s some drama about that right now).

      I worked for a couple of nonprofits that did not provide coffee or anything, and one that didn’t even have a coffee maker on the premises. I brought in my own small french press and coffee for myself, since that saved me a lot of money, of course then a couple of coworkers started wanting to “borrow” my coffee, which turned into really frequent, because they were rude and there were some culture problems there. I’m still annoyed about that one.

      I worked for another large national nonprofit that did provide coffee, but worked very hard to find the best tasting cheapest option they could. I was fine with it, but lots of coworkers didn’t like it and brought in their own coffee anyway. (The Bay Area has lots of coffee snobs ;o) )

    14. ThatGirl*

      We have pod machines (not Keurig) with a variety of coffee, tea and hot chocolate. Plus creamer and sugar. It’s way better than my last job, actually.

    16. Portia*

      My school has a big coffee pot in the break room, and a supply of Folgers, powdered creamer, etc. I’m not a coffee snob, but our athletic director usually starts the first pot, because he gets there earliest, and he has a somewhat dictatorial preference for extremely weak coffee. Like, he posted directions for coffee-water ratios above the coffee maker and gets mad if the coffee is stronger than that. It’s, like, one teaspoon of grounds per cup water.
      So I bring my coffee from home in my huge thermos, because I cannot be enthusiastic about teaching English to 15-year-olds at 7:30
      in the morning without a serious caffeine buzz.

      1. Die Forelle*

        See, that weak coffee preference makes no sense! I’m the first one in at my school and I make the coffee pretty strong. People who want it weaker cut it with some hot water (we have a dispenser in the same room as the coffee). You can’t strengthen weak coffee after the fact!

    17. Elizabeth West*

      Yes, all the offices I’ve worked in had coffee. It wasn’t necessarily GOOD coffee. Both OldExjob and Exjob also provided cocoa mix and Exjob also had tea (Swiss Miss and Lipton, respectively). I brought my own tea because I have my favorites but availed myself of the cocoa occasionally.

      Exjob Boss and Bosswife take a vacation in Hawaii every year–they have a vacation share with friends. One year, they brought back Kona coffee and put some in the break room for everybody. That was SOOO GOOOOOOOOD. I used to joke that the vendor coffee we usually had tasted like someone had dipped a brown Sharpie in hot water.

    18. hbc*

      My company makes coffee machines specifically targeted for offices, so yes. :) We’ve got all our models on display, though it seems like no one can remember to clean the one that has fresh milk as frequently as it’s needed, so I avoid that one unless customers are coming in.

    19. Jubilance*

      I work at HQ for a major retailer. We have a Starbucks in the building lobby and we get our corporate discount applied, just like in stores. On my floor, we have a Keurig but it’s the individual’s responsibility to bring their own pods – sugar is provided but not cream. We also will have coffee & snacks provided for big dept-wide meetings.

    20. justsomeone*

      My company has a fancy grind-the-beans-on-demand coffee maker for an office of around 80 people. (HQ of a retail org so the company is actually bigger.)
      We also have hot water taps, free tea, free snacks, free soda and have recently started stocking fizzy water.

      1. zora*

        So jealous! My boyfriend used to work at a place that had multiple pots of nice coffee made every day, plus a full, high end espresso machine totally free for everyone’s use. That is my absolute dream.

    21. Gwen*

      We have coffee (brewed in a big industrial maker but with packets from two local roasters) and a selection of tea bags. People sometimes bring in cocoa or hot cider packets and leave them in the kitchen for communal use.

    22. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Old Job just allowed you to bring in your own pot if you wanted to. That changed when we did a SERIOUS remodel of the building. Nothing like that was allowed anywhere in the offices. We did have a Starbucks-lite in the building as well as the cafeteria where you could get freshly brewed coffee (really good stuff actually and the food there was phenomenal) but you had to pay for it.
      Current Job has free coffee, tea, and a hot chocolate/cappuccino machine (similar to the gas station type).

    23. Orca*

      I work at an industrial yard of a large company and we have coffee machines. This yard switched from one major company to another in March and the person who’s now monitoring the coffee ordering doesn’t drink it herself so now it’s like pulling teeth to get some for my building, and I constantly get told we drink too much of it…but it’s provided.

    24. Adlib*

      We have a traditional filter coffee pot. Our other office in town has a Flavia which makes hot chocolate, different kinds of coffee, tea, and lattes. If it weren’t on the other side of town, I’d work there. (I’m remote corporate so it doesn’t matter where I work.)

    26. Die Forelle*

      I work in an administrative capacity at a private school, and am the coffee purchaser (using school budget money) and usually the coffee maker. We are very particular about our coffee – we use Starbucks House Blend grounds and I make it strong. A couple people cut it with hot water if they find it too strong, but I think most of my coworkers like it as-is. I also stock half and half, 1% milk, and sugar.

    27. This Daydreamer*

      The shelter where I work provides coffee. For the residents.

      I really don’t mind. I can’t drink coffee and I’ve lost track of how many women arrive with nothing more than what they’re wearing. The most recent one was the other day. There is flavored water, a Brita pitcher, and some junk food I can pick from.

      1. This Daydreamer*

        I just realized that came across as holier than thou. It’s just that I knew we had a shoestring budget when I came in and that we rely on donations. And it’s hard to whine about how terrible my life is when I deal with people who have had to flee for their lives and have nothing.

    28. Sam Yao*

      I work for a small branch office of a medium size law firm based in a major city. We have a Keurig. As you say, it’s kind of gross but it does the job. I prefer tea, but the firm only provides Lipton, so I bring my own chai, green tea, what have you. The firm provides sugar and sweeteners, but I buy half and half and keep it in the fridge with the understanding that it’s for general use, because I can’t stand the little Coffeemate containers they give us.

    29. It's Business Time*

      We have a Kurig and have different pods based on what people want, coffee – light, medium, dark roasts, decaf, various teas including green teas, hot chocolate. We have snacks and cookies, and fruits. Sodas and flavored waters in the fridge

    30. Lemon Zinger*

      I work at a large university. My department only provides us with a water filter (hot and cold), a fridge, and a microwave… and the microwave and fridge were donated by employees.

    31. Thlayli*

      We can buy subsidised coffee in the canteen for 60c a cup and we also have a kettle in my building and you can bring in your own. Some coworkers clubbed together to buy a coffee machine which everyone is allowed use but you have to pay for your own pods.

    32. Sunshine on a cloudy day*

      Yikes – I’ve never worked anywhere (and my early experience is fairly varied – hip startup, family-owned real estate, german bank) and I’ve never worked anywhere that did not at least provide a grungy coffee machine, and basic supplies (creamer, sugar, etc.).

      Nowadays – I would not accept a job that did not provide coffee, drinks/juices/sodas and some sort of snack options. It’s such a money-saver for me. However these are all completely standard in my industry. It would be a very bad sign not to provide this. Totally do get it in the non-profit/gov world.

    33. Steph B*

      My new job (been here about a month) has what I like to call the ‘trying-to-be-fancy Keurig’ — there are little pouches that you put into a machine to make coffee or espresso or tea. I don’t find it any different than a Keurig. They also have free Coke / Diet Coke and La Croix. My sisters are supremely jealous of the La Croix. The Diet Coke has been clutch some days when I need some caffeine that is not coffee in the afternoons.

      At my previous job (small biotech start up), they had a Keurig, and the job before that (clinical contract research organization) we had a Starbucks coffee machine.

    34. Clever Name*

      Small (70 people) consulting firm, food coffee, plus a myriad of snacks are company-provided.

    35. Windchime*

      My previous workplaces have all provided free coffee. Some also provided tea, hot chocolate, cider, etc. My current employer doesn’t provide even basic coffee. I am a tea drinker so I’m fine with that, and we do have a couple of hot water dispensers in our tiny kitchenette. Also, we have ice dispensers in the break room fridges and, believe it or not, this is the first time I’ve ever had that. Other places had an ice bin, but people would reach in and grab ice with their hands, yuck.

    36. crookedfinger*

      Yes. 2 kinds of coffee, numerous tea varieties, hot chocolate and apple cider (powders).

      This is in corporate America, in case that matters.

    37. Eve*

      My small office has a keurig with the coffee/tea provided as well as lunch once a week and a variety of snacks at all times (bagels/eggs/chips/nuts).

      My last job provided nothing but as were broke so we understood. The job before that though we had lots of snacks and a keurig. I was a temp there and my first day they made sure they ordered the caffeine free tea I liked (I don’t drink coffee) and I thought that was really nice and welcoming.

    38. Lab Monkey*

      IBM definitely has coffee in at least the location I’ve been to (I ran blood drives for a while, I’ve been to most big companies in the area), but it was paid. You could get a cheap cup of drip in the cafeteria or they had a mini coffee shop! Drip coffee and tea were free after 2.

      1. Lab Monkey*

        Also to be fair, we were always in a relatively public part of the campus. I’d be surprised if the other buildings didn’t have little free coffee stations.

    39. Hrovitnir*

      Oo. I would be quite offended not to get free coffee (and at least hot chocolate for a caffeine-free option, preferably black tea for tea drinkers.) I’m not fussy, but I want *something*!

      Bearing in mind that drip coffee machines aren’t much of a thing in NZ, this is my experience (that is super identifying, but whatever):
      -Pizza place. No, but I’ve just realised I see that as an exception.
      -Supermarket. Instant coffee.
      -Small architect’s office. Professional espresso machine.
      -Big box store. Instant.
      -Post office. Instant.
      -SPCA. Instant.
      -Very small factory/warehouse. Plunger coffee we were allowed one jug of a day, and instant.
      -Vet clinic. Instant.
      -Academic lab (as student). Instant.
      -Academic lab in Sweden (as student). Coffee machine – those all-in-one machines that aren’t proper espresso.

  30. Snark*

    So someone suggested that an Ask Snark thread would be hilarious for open thread this week. Do you find Alison to be insufficiently salty? Do you want questionable advice delivered with great certitude? Do you for some reason need to consult on work-related matters with a grumpy environmental scientist who hasn’t yet had his coffee? Do you employ drama llamas or cantankerous camelids? ASK ME ANYTHING

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Dear Snark:

      I have zero desire to do anything remotely productive today. What should I do?

      1. Snark*

        One thing you should definitely not do is knock off at noon and go drink a refreshing adult beverage in a corner of a quiet pub with a book. NO YOU SHOULD NOT DO THAT.

        1. Snark*

          Also, I recommend against hanging out in open thread all day. That’s a bad idea. I would definitely not do that.

          (lol im totally doing that)

    3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Dear Snark,

      On my last project the supervisor had a big fit and yelled at some other contractors who were doing us a favour by helping out that they were all incompetent and so badly trained that they didn’t know how to cope with an unsafe working condition. The other company actually has a better reputation than the one I was working for, but that’s beside the point. As luck would have it that was on Friday, and I caught the flu over the weekend and missed the last week of the job and have never seen him again except when I went to go pick up my stuff.

      Should I have written to the boss to complain about his behaviour? He’s well known for his awful temper but this was the worst incident I experienced. I’ve avoided going back to work for them ever since.

      1. Snark*

        Oof. This is one of the awkward aspects of being a contractor. My approach would probably be to let it go and never work for him again. If you do feel like sending him a note, I might suggest something light and breezy along the lines of

        “Dear Yelling Bad Man,

        I wasn’t able to circle back with you as I was out sick on what might have been my last day working with you, but I wanted to express my concern that the giant pit full of hyenas could be taken as a violation of workplace safety standards and might be exposing you to some liability if a contractor were to fall in and be messily devoured. Easily overlooked, I know! But we could have some legal trouble if that’s not resolved.

        I appreciate the opportunity to work with you and encourage you to get in touch with future needs as they come up!

        Best,
        Miss Pantalones”

    4. JulieBulie*

      I’m working at home today so I can get some work done, away from distractions. But my neighbor is outside blaring the stereo from her garage and I can totally hear it. Why does she do this? It’s cold, why is she even outside? And the work I need to do is so boring that it makes my eyes bleed. Help. Where is that pub you mentioned?

      1. Snark*

        I suggest putting some speakers on the windowsill and blasting Satanic death metal. The subtle touch is often best; after all, you do have to live next to each other for the foreseeable future.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Hahaha, I did this once when I lived downtown in Santa Cruz. Someone had a very loud car radio on in the street outside my building one day. I have a vinyl record of Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony that has an actual volume warning on it, so I put my stereo speaker in the open window and blasted Ludwig van until they gave up and left. :D

          1. Snark*

            If we’re going classical, I think one of the recordings of the 1812 Overture that has actual cannons would be pretty rad too.

          2. Christmas Carol*

            My Stereo Wars go to’s are either an oldie vinyl compilation from my Big 10 College’s marching band, or bagpipes.

        2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

          I had an annoying guy who lived in the dorm next to me when I was an undergrad. I made a cassette that had nothing but “The Ballad of the Green Berets” on it over and over, and I would start that playing, turn it up just loudly enough that I knew he could hear it, and then I’d go out for coffee.

        3. NoMoreMrFixit*

          I once lent my best friend a CD of bagpipe music. He used to be a DJ in his younger years and had a very good set of speakers. He placed them against the wall so the annoying fools next door got a couple hours of a few hundred watts of the 48th Highlanders.

          The neighbours kept the volume down after that and he couldn’t stop smirking when he returned my CD.

        4. NeverNicky*

          My parents – after a sleepless night due to noisy neighbours – put on repeat at full volume an album of the Massed Pipes and Drums of the Royal Scots Regiments. And then went out.

          I’m surprised their house was still standing when they returned…

    5. Janine Willcall*

      Dear Snark,
      Part of my job is working with an extremely incompetent department. They don’t pass along information I need, they can’t delegate effectively, they won’t Google basic info, they take credit for work I’ve done, and they’re annoying as people. How do I cope without incurring liver damage?

      1. Snark*

        Have you considered acquiring a small, durable, lightweight table to keep in your office for flipping purposes? Mine has served me well.

        1. Janine Willcall*

          …just realizing that I absolutely would buy a tiny, desktop-sized table for flipping. Must find!

          2. Myrin*

            The tiny table can also be placed on your regular table functioning as an elevated standing workstation if that’s something you’re interested in!

    6. zora*

      Dear Snark,

      My boss is one of those people who is always trying to do too much in a limited amount of time. No matter what I do to get her to do things ahead of time, she is ALWAYS sending me requests for time consuming tasks at about 4:55 pm on a Friday, or asking me to book 12 different phone calls in one week when there aren’t enough hours in the day. I cannot bend space-time to make these things possible. What do I do???

      1. Snark*

        I’ve always wanted to skip gaily out of the building after one of those emails, singing “Nope, nope, nopity-nope, nope nope nope nopity-nope!” Maybe try that and report back?

        Seriously, though, these people are the worst. I’ve actually had some luck managing up with stuff like this. Like, at 2:00 or so, pop into their office and say, “Hey, I’ve got plans this evening and would not be able to stay after 5pm. Do you have any taskers for me that I could wrap up before then?” And then if they send the request at 4:55, say, “Sorry, as I mentioned earlier, I can’t stay late tonight, but I’ll get on this first thing Monday morning.”

        However, that’s kind of dependent on her being a fundamentally reasonable person who understands that people go do fun things and drink to forget her on Friday evening. If she thinks it’s reasonable to crack the whip on a Friday night, then beats me.

        1. zora*

          I like the singing idea, I’ll see how the rest of the building reacts and report back! ;o)

          She’s usually on the road or not physically in the office when she sends those requests, so the email earlier in the day reminding her I have to leave has no effect.

          I don’t usually stay after 5 to do these things, because I am hourly, but just the pile of requests coming in when I’m trying to leave stresses me out! And then I find myself worrying about them on my way home. :( That’s probably just my problem and I need to let it go, but I was wondering if you had some science-ey tips about changing the laws of physics that I didn’t learn in my Liberal Arts education :o)

          1. Snark*

            Sorry. I’m Dr. Snark, not Dr. Strange. But I can give you my personal absolution from worrying about these things for a second after you leave. My guess is she probably just sends them off as she gets them, without thinking of the time.

    7. Teapot Librarian*

      My big project for the afternoon is writing performance reviews. If you recall my Hoarder Employee, I’m starting with his, and he has an exceedingly inflated opinion of his performance. This is my first time ever writing performance reviews. Any advice?

      1. Snark*

        Has he already submitted a self-evaluation? I like to indulge myself in snarky annotations in the margins just to get it out of my system. Seriously, it does help, because you can write “holy shit, do you just send in your evil twin every day or what,” laugh at yourself, and then be civil when gently telling him there’s a disparity between his assessment and yours.

        The big issue is going to be dealing with the “no, I’m at Exceeds Expectations in all categories, nuh-uhhhh” pushback in the moment, and that’s where lots of specifics and documentation come in. And, of course, Alison’s scripts for dealing with pushback to feedback.

    9. As Close As Breakfast*

      Dear Snark,
      Somehow I am always, ALWAYS, the person changing the toilet paper roll in the bathroom on our floor. And replenishing the backup toilet paper supply in the drawer. And putting in a new paper towel roll. And filling the soap dispenser. At least one of my coworkers constantly (and I can’t help but believe maliciously) uses the last square and walks away leaving empty cardboard rolls on the dispensers. THEY ARE MONSTERS WHAT DO I DO???

      1. Snark*

        Just stop doing it. Bring your own TP for a while (bring flushable wet wipes and revel in the luxury!), use your own little travel bottle of soap, and laugh quietly to yourself when someone has to text for help. There is a dignity in consequences.

        There’s no dignity in duck-walking to another bathroom or having someone throw a roll through the door for you, but eh.

      2. Beancounter Eric*

        Don’t change it….take your own bog roll, and leave the w$#*$&@#s to their own devices.

        And yes, there be monsters….

    10. AnonForThisOne*

      Dear Snark,

      My manager wants my department and our sister department to work more closely together, including cross-training and helping out in each others areas. I don’t want to do this. If I wanted to work in the sister department, I would have applied for a job there. How can I get her to let me do the job I was hired for?

      1. Snark*

        “Boss, you had mentioned that I should teach Dweezil how to pet llamas this afternoon, but Pinky, Oscar, and Rufina haven’t gotten ear scratches since last week and they’re getting cranky. What should I treat as my top priority? Are you sure? Pinky tried to bite someone earlier.”

    11. zora*

      I’ll add the issue I mentioned in the Halloween thread above.

      Dear Snark,
      I am the admin for a small satellite office (6 people) of a larger company. Everyone in this smaller office has mentioned multiple times that they want more culture and social stuff here at the office. But EVERY time I suggest something, I get eyerolls about that idea or lots of whining about how they don’t have time because they have so much work to do. But then I hear more the next day about how we should have more social stuff. What exactly am I supposed to be concluding from this conflicting information?

      1. Snark*

        I actually think you could call ’em on it in the moment. “Well, you guys really advocate for more social events at the office, but when I suggest specifics, you respond really negatively. What’s up with that?”

        1. Snark*

          Fundamentally, the problem is they’re in a complaint loop. “Bluh so much work so busy omg” is their default response. Gotta break the loop, either when they complain they’re busy or when they complain about no social stuff, I think.

    13. Iris Eyes*

      I have internal email correspondence from someone that has a lime green background with bubbles. Can you explain this?

      1. Camellia*

        No one can explain this. Just close the email and delete it. When they ask you about it tell them you are color blind and couldn’t see it.

        1. Iris Eyes*

          That shade of green does make me feel a bit ill, coupled with the bubbles its like I’m drowning in toxic sludge or something.

    14. MissMaple*

      Dear Snark-

      I’ve been trying to get someone’s sign-off on a document for 1.5 months. I’ve emailed, called, and done step by step screen captures on how to manage a sign-off. I’ve sicced other people on them. What should I do next? Singing telegram? Personalized balloon?

      Yours Truly,
      MissMaple

      1. Snark*

        “Guys, you can put on your big boy underoos, display gumption, and plan a party your owndamnselves. No strippers, no keg stands, no party bus, but otherwise, the world is your oyster! But really, no strippers. KTHX.”

  31. FormerOP*

    Poll- email or phone? What is your industry and if you don’t mind, what’s your age? Add in situations if you would like.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I majorly prefer email. To me, phone offers very few advantages. If I could just do away with phones altogether I would.

      Email: You don’t expect me to respond immediately even if I respond quickly, so it doesn’t interrupt what I’m doing. I can be thoughtful about how I respond instead of having to think off the top of my head. I have a written record of what I said to you and what you said to me.

      For things that can’t be discussed on email, I’d honestly rather have an in-person meeting than talk over the phone. I can read facial expressions and body language. I don’t have to worry about reception issues or any weird technology interferences with the phone call. And you can clearly see when you walk in the door whether I’m busy or not. Even better if you don’t just walk in, but we have a scheduled meeting instead.

      I’d love to hear why people like the using the phone, though. They must have reasons.

      1. Agile Phalanges*

        Ooh, good point about in-person being preferable to phone, when possible. I currently work in a tiny office of only three people including myself, have a few production people out back, so of course all communications between us are in person. But then all other communication with outside contacts is remote, of course. So phone it is, no possibility for in-person convos.

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I’m an email person, but to answer your question about why some people like using the phone, it’s because (a) it can feel quicker or actually be quicker to get an answer, either because it’s immediate (and they want an answer right now) or because there’s a bunch of back and forth on details that need to happen or the situation is complicated to explain, or (b) they place a high premium on relationship-building that for them happens in real-time conversations where you can hear the other person’s voice.

        This group is going to be 99% email, I’d bet — as blog commenters, it’s heavily skewed in that direction.

        1. Myrin*

          The back-and-forth is the reason for why I really love the phone in some situations.

          I run into this most often with my doctoral advisor, where I need to ask him a bunch of questions which are dependent on his answer to the question before that (so I can’t just ask them all at once). That would result in something like ten emails back and forth, often causing some delay to the start of the actual work being done because neither of us is at our computer all day, and with answers only consisting of one line – it’s infinitely easier to clear it all up in a two-minute phone call.

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            I’d rather avoid back-and-forth by talking in person than talking on the phone. Obviously, sometimes the phone can’t be avoided (long-distance employees or contractors, for example), but that’s a compromise, not an ideal.

            1. Myrin*

              Totally with you there – my preferred method in all areas of life is actually a face-to-face talk but I’m often just too far away. I’m not going to take a two-hour train ride just so that I can talk to someone for two minutes when a phone call gets the same results.

        2. Blue_eyes*

          This. I use email a lot and like it for all the reasons Anonymous Educator stated, but sometimes phone is the best. Like Alison said, when you need an immediate answer or have a lot of back and forth phone can be valuable.

          When I need to contact a company about something, speaking with someone on the phone gives me more confidence in their answers and usually gets a faster response than emailing a general info email address that may or may not be monitored. There are also things that I do not want to put in writing in which case phone is necessary.

      3. zora*

        My boss actually prefers the phone, so I’ll jump in to give you a perspective. She is an executive of the company, and she’s a little bit older and not as comfortable with technology. But also, she gets a billion emails and doesn’t really have a system for keeping track of them, so she misses emails all the time and can never find something she’s looking for.

        One thing she does constantly as the big ideas kind of boss, is when someone sends out a draft of a key document by email, she will want to get on the phone to just ‘talk through’ her edits, which is often because she doesn’t have specific word edits, but more thoughts and ideas about direction, or about framing, etc.

        She also often prefers phone because I think she finds it easier to talk through her thoughts in the moment. Her day is often just back to back phone calls with all the account folks working on specific projects, while the VPs who report to her mostly share documents or written thoughts and prefer email. But everyone is okay with her preferring the phone because she is the big boss. So, it kind of works, I think.

      4. Elizabeth H.*

        If it’s a binary choice, I probably prefer email but I am not really phone-averse like many others.

        One advantage of the phone that I haven’t seen anyone mention, that I suspect could resonate with many email-favorers, is that on the phone you can just get the thing over with immediately instead of having it hang over your head. It’s true that an email might not interrupt you like a phone call might, but I end up seeing the email notification anyway and it creates a brief moment of distraction that somehow activates the procrastination/mild anxiety/triaging-tasks-mode in my brain, and even though I would usually dismiss it and go back to what I’m doing, those brief moments of alertness can add up to feelings of stress, whereas a phone call or an in-person meeting usually ends with a greater feeling of resolution. I consider myself a pretty effective and organized person, but I definitely have the procrastination gene. Email really plays into that and exacerbates that type of tendency – I know I’m projecting my own experience, but I have a suspicion that there are a number of other people who dislike the phone so much because it doesn’t really let you procrastinate or avoid something as well as email. (There are certain types of inquiries I get that I really dread having to address, and I am kind of fifty-fifty on whether it’s better phone or email because of the long-term benefit of getting it over versus the short-term benefit of being able to put it off.)

        Imo, someone leaving a voice mail is the worst of both worlds! :P

        1. Elizabeth H.*

          Oh also, I’m 30 but I’m kind of a Luddite-by-choice about many things. I work in academic administration, and our culture is pretty email-centric. My 1st job was in retail at a bookstore, so I’m very comfortable talking to many different people, talking to strangers on the phone, etc. I don’t have phone anxiety! I also like talking on the phone to friends/family significant others, although many of my peers never do this.

    2. Snark*

      Email, almost every time. Environmental consulting, 34. Unless it’s super critical, almost everybody uses email.

    3. T3k*

      Late 20s here. Emails, all the way. I hate talking on the phone and it wears me out (introvert here). Unfortunately I couldn’t get away from phones in my previous jobs because I was basically doing customer service. However, where I am now (a tech company), there’s not a phone in sight (unless you count people’s cells) because everyone communicates using emails and chat systems. I freaking love it.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I work for a temp agency and surprisingly, we get a really good response via text message.

    6. Turkletina*

      I work from home and my entire team is distributed, so phone isn’t really an option for me. I’m 30 and in technology, for what it’s worth.

    7. paul*

      Email if I can; I like paper trails damnit. So do our auditors. I spent an hour on the phone yesterday explaining that yes, some of the people and community non-profits I deal with *don’t use email* so I can’t communicate with them via email (and that I’m not refusing to work with abortion providers, there just aren’t any in the region).

    8. Murphy*

      If it’s a quick clarifying question, I don’t mind when people call me. Email is fine too. For anything involved or complicated, I prefer having it in writing, so I can go over all the details and take my time answering. Also that way I’m not forced to interrupt whatever I’m doing and research someone’s inquiry. I will almost always send email unless I really need an answer right now. If I need to have a lot of back and forth, I prefer the phone and will sometimes schedule these phone calls.

      I’m in my 30s and I’m non-faculty university staff. The people who contact me with questions are often but not always faculty.

    10. Agile Phalanges*

      VASTLY prefer e-mail, prefer it (or other text-based methods, for non-work things) for many reasons, but there is a time and a place for phones. Benefits of e-mail is you’re not interrupting the person you’re calling (or they’re not interrupting you), you can take time to formulate what you want to say, I’m better with visual information than aural and will internalize it much better, having a written record of what was said or agreed to, having that record be searchable later on, and probably many more.

      Benefits to phone including being able to hash out details. After about three e-mails in a chain without actually accomplishing anything, I usually give up and pick up the phone. Is easier for setting a date and time between people with busy schedules, hashing out who’s going to do what from a long-ish list (followed up in writing though), etc.

      I’m in a blue-collar manufacturing environment, though I work in the office, and I’m 40.

    11. Jadelyn*

      Email for the love of god. Phone only in emergencies. HR, credit union, and I’m 32.

      Mind you, I’m a wee bit heavy on email versus the rest of my org, and it’s a tug-of-war my manager and I have every now and again, because she is a “phone for everything, email only if you need an explicit paper trail for something” type – she’s in her 60s – so we wind up compromising, I call people more often than I would otherwise, and she doesn’t fuss at me about using the phone unless there’s a real reason to.

    12. Elizabeth West*

      Email, so I have 1) documentation, 2) instructions, and 3) don’t have to deal with it immediately if it’s not urgent. I’m 52. I prefer email to phone in most situations, but sometimes phone gets it done quicker.

    13. Infinity Anon*

      Email unless it is an emergency. If it is complicated, set up a time for a phone call by email.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        This. I don’t mind talking on the phone, but not cold calling or being cold called. Give me a heads up by IM or email and ask me to call or if it’s a good time for them to call and that works great. (Early 40s, engineer)

        Most of the senior people in my office (50+ yrs) would always suggest calling first rather than emailing if they were advising me on contacting someone, because it was both faster and more personal, that was the implication I got.

    14. Holly Flax*

      This is weird I know, but I’m 50/50. HR Manager, mid-20’s.

      I do not like when people stop by my office or call me for small, simple things that they could just as easily ask me to do over email because then I feel pressured to drop everything to do that thing then and now, or write it down and hope I don’t forget. I get especially annoyed when I email the person a clarifying question and they call or drop by to answer it. WHY??

      On the other hand, email can be wildly inefficient at solving complicated issues. Just today I spent 45 minutes on the phone with our payroll company unpacking an issue with our payroll system after realizing it would probably take weeks to resolve via email and we solved the problem. If I have a lot of questions or if someone has a lot of questions for me related to the same thing, calls or meetings are nice because it is easy to get caught up in the answer to one question and ignore the others in an email. I also prefer phone and in-person conversations for HR issues, but I think that goes without saying.

    15. TheCupcakeCounter*

      I’m an accountant and I find that some of the more technical conversations I need to have with non-accountants work better over the phone with a preliminary email sent as sort of a guide.
      I work in the transportation industry (specifically trucking) and most of these conversations are with operations people such as terminal managers.

    16. Anonymous Engineer*

      EMAIL.

      32, engineer for a design firm. Email provides written documentation for CYA purposes, for reference at a later date, etc.

    19. Adlib*

      Email or IM. Our company is on Skype, and to be honest, I’m annoyed if people just straight up call me without IM-ing me to ask if I have time first (whether I’m marked as “available” or not). Most people do, but there are a few repeat offenders who do not, and they annoy me.

      Industry – AEC
      Age – 30s

    20. zora*

      Timely example: I just stepped away from my desk and came back to a voicemail about a meeting confirmation I had just sent. The voicemail: “Is this for an in-person meeting or a phone call? Please call me back.”

      ……………… really????

    22. Spelliste*

      Email usually, but I’m happy to set up a quick call to discuss things. But please don’t call out of the blue if it’s not an emergency! I’m usually in the middle of something and it stresses me out and leaves me feeling unprepared to address the topic/question because my head’s still in the previous task. Scheduling it or at least confirming via email/IM that it’s a good time makes all the difference.

      Financial services (operations), 32. Public facing program manager.

    23. Havarti*

      Email. Research. Mid-30s. Paper trail. Or CYA! Also, I have trouble hearing sometimes and not being able to see a person’s face makes judging their tone of voice harder. I’ll do phone when I don’t want a paper trail or something is sufficiently complicated, it would take too long to write out. Also I hate phone because you can’t control the conversation. Like my boss insisted we call a client back so I did. We sorted out the issue, she started some small talk and then launched into a political rant complete with bible quotes. I was beyond stunned.

    24. LtBroccoli*

      Email, email, email.

      It provides a trail so I can prove what was said in case of dispute, I can think through what I need to say first, and it doesn’t interrupt anyone. Plus, when I inevitably forget what I/they said, I can look it up later.

      43, banking.

    25. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I’m in my late twenties, and email is my preference. I don’t mind making phone calls, but if MY phone rings, that’s a sign that something has gone horribly wrong and needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW. I used to have major phone anxiety, but then I took a job answering incoming calls all day for three years, and it got better and easier over time.

    26. Solo*

      Phone (or in person) for relationship building or meetings. Email for traceability, to-dos, and infodumps. IM or in person for “quick question, just need to clarify this to move on.”

      Late 20s, software engineer in the manufacturing sector. I work in an office where (almost) all of the members of my permanent team also work, but I also work with ad hoc project teams that involve remote colleagues and contractors who are anywhere from +2 to +16 hours off from my timezone.

    27. Someone else*

      Email. IT. 30s.
      For the most part when people need something from me or I need it from them, it’s going to be complex enough that a single phone call talking it through will help no one. Almost always there will be either screenshots involved or multiple steps etc. Either I’m going to need to refer to what they said later or they’re going to need to refer to what I said later, 90% of the time. If we have a phone call, we’re going to end up taking copious notes on the discussion that the person talking could’ve just sent in the first place and then it’d already be in writing.

      Also, other than pre-planned phone meetings, a phone call says “drop everything now and interact with me” and an email let’s you time it yourself.

    28. Mimmy*

      I prefer email but am fine with the phone if it’s with someone I know well (though most of my non-email communication is face-to-face).

      44, keyboarding instructor for blind & visually impaired adults

    29. nep*

      Prefer email, but definitely phone if I need immediate answers or confirmation of something. A nonprofit community organisation. Middle aged.

    30. Erin*

      34, product management/software

      I prefer email for things that (a) require a very thoughtful response (b) are not urgent or (c) should be documented in writing (commitments!).

      I use the phone(or stopping by, whichever is more feasible) for talking through “hey can you explain xyz ” type questions or when I’m asking for something I don’t feel like explaining /begging for over. And also, when I want to give the person a heads up about an email. “Jane, I’m about to fire off an email to client Y explaining the delay in elephant tuxedos. Is there anything I need to know? What can I tell her the new dates are?”

      “Jane, I just got an email from our CEO and he is livid about the delay in elephant tuxedos. Let’s talk trough a response before I send one…”

    31. crookedfinger*

      Email. Real estate, I’m 34.

      I have a bit of phone PTSD, but mostly I just prefer emails because I can 1. Revisit the information later 2. Spend time coming up with the best reply 3. Add it to my to-do list very easily 4. Retain the information more easily (I have a hard time remembering things I only hear) 5. “well, actually” people when they try to claim something that doesn’t jive with past conversations (“I NEVER told you to change X” “Hmm, well that’s odd. I have an email here from February 2nd where you told me to change that.” “…okay, I guess I did…”) —- which has also come in handy a lot of times when a weird one-off situation happens and then happens again in the future when I can no longer remember the specifics of the original problem. Just so much better than phone calls.

    32. MilkMoon (UK)*

      Email! I would throw my work phone out the window if I could (and my personal phone when supposed friends call instead of texting >___> )

      Early thirties, introvert and misanthrope.

      I actually work in customer service (phones and email) and while I’m very good on the phone I much prefer email queries, due both to the hating people and the feeling better able to articulate myself in writing.

    33. onyxzinnia*

      Email, email, email. It’s enormously helpful to have a historical record of the back and forth conversation rather than relying on my memory on what direction we decided to take on a particular project. I have been asked on multiple occasions “so what did we decide on this same project last year?”, with email, I can tell them in about 5 minutes. It also allows me the opportunity to lay out my thoughts clearly and thoughtfully.

      My next preferred method of communication is in person, especially if it’s sensitive information, an interpersonal conflict or team project brainstorming/ideation.

      Phones are the devil. If someone is calling me at work, 99% of the time it is a sales call I’m not interested in taking. My only exception is for existing vendors who need an immediate answer to make our deadlines.

      I’m 32 and I work in marketing for a tech company so that may skewer things a bit.

    34. Hrovitnir*

      Emaaaaaaail. It can be really fast! It can be left to wait if it’s not urgent! You can be far clearer! You can check back later and be sure of what you’re doing/what you said! <3 <3 <3

      Phone is good for: very short communications where it'll be more efficient, odd subjects that are lengthier in text, and people who just… don't communicate well by email (sigh).

      For the above, assuming close enough proximity I'd generally prefer to skip right over phone and go see them in person.

      Age: 32.

  32. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

    Can we talk more about writing personal statements and responding to person specifications, especially in the UK job market? We started talking about it the other day (link below) but I have some other questions.

    Is it okay to combine similar essential criteria into one heading and paragraph? For instance, “excellent writing skills” and “experience writing professional reports”. I would be inclined to have a single heading of perhaps “writing skills and experience” and write about both at once, maybe even using the report writing as an example of writing skills.

    If the application has a separate area for a “why do you want to work here” statement, should you skip any introductory statements and simply start the personal statement with the first criterion?

    For foreign qualifications, where the lines between academic departments don’t quite match those in the UK, should I explain the difference? In my case, archaeology is part of anthropology in the US but they are very separate departments in the UK, so my US degrees are in anthropology. Do I need to explain that or is it okay to assume that whoever is reading the application will know?

    What kind of examples would be good for the more vague criteria, such as “broad understanding of subject X” or “willing to learn”? Should I say that the fact that I’ve slogged through three degrees demonstrates a willingness to learn? Should I add a section to my CV that lists all the short continuing professional development courses I’ve done over the years?

    2. Dotty*

      Yes combine similar skills – in the past I’ve taken the job spec, combined the similar skills/requirements like you mentioned and then used them as sub-headings with a summary/short example of how your experience meets. I also really like when applicants for my team do this. Also like it when applicants start and/or finish with a few sentences on why they want to work for the company (amazing how many people just submit a generic statement)

    3. AeroEngineer*

      There are so many ways to set up education per country (how departments are split up etc), that I would definitely mention something about the degree name. Don’t assume the person will know, unless perhaps they spent some time studying or working in that system. A very short clarification would make sure there would be no issue.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      I’ve combined them before. Did it in the application for my current job. But what you need to do is list both criteria word for word to make it clear you’re answering both in one. I did it like this:

      Great knowledge of llama medicine
      Experience of llama healthcare
      Explanation here

      Otherwise someone may skim and think you skipped one of those points.

    5. Amey*

      I agree with Ramona Flowers, you can absolutely write about them both together but list both as they’re written on the person spec or they might well get missed. When we’re reviewing applications, we literally have a score card with all of the essential and desirable criteria listed on it and we score each applicant against it.

      If your degree is relevant to the job I’d make sure that you really understand the equivalencies and I’d explain it. If it’s not particularly relevant to the job, however, and the main requirement is that you have a degree then I wouldn’t worry about it. (e.g. If you’re applying for a departmental administrator job at my university, it won’t matter whether your degree is in archaeology or anthropology, if you’re applying to be an archaeology lecturer obviously it will.)

    6. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Thanks all! This is very helpful and I’m annoyed that I haven’t figured any of this stuff out earlier.

      FWIW I’m looking at heritage consultant jobs, so it probably depends on the company as to whether or not they know that anthropology = archaeology in the US. Companies that primarily do archaeology probably will, but I’m not so sure about engineering and planning firms. Is just saying “please note that archaeology is considered a sub-field of anthropology in the US”or similar sufficient?

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        They’re not always so separate in the UK. It’s not uncommon to see degrees in archaeology and anthropology.

        I’m a little confused by your additional note. If your degrees say they’re in anthropology, and then you randomly mention archaeology, it’s not clear that what you actually studied was archaeology and that’s why you’re mentioning it.

        If I’ve understood right, I think you’d be better off putting something like:

        Actual degree title (archaeology studied within school of anthropology)

        Willingness to learn: no, you shouldn’t claim studying at university is proof of this. Mentioning your learning and development, and times when you’ve demonstrated a willingness to learn at work, would be better.

        Add your CPD courses if they’re relevant to the job you’re applying for.

        1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

          My US degrees (BA and MA) are technically from the Anthropology department, but my PhD is in Archaeology. But I studied archaeology in all of them, if that makes sense.

      2. Ramona Flowers*

        They’re not always so separate in the UK. It’s not uncommon to see degrees in archaeology and anthropology.

        I’m a little confused by your additional note. If your degrees say they’re in anthropology, and then you randomly mention archaeology, it’s not clear that what you actually studied was archaeology and that’s why you’re mentioning it.

        If I’ve understood right, I think you’d be better off putting something like:

        Actual degree title (archaeology studied within school of anthropology)

        Willingness to learn: no, you shouldn’t claim studying at university is proof of this. Mentioning your learning and development, and times when you’ve demonstrated a willingness to learn at work, would be better.

        Add your CPD courses if they’re relevant to the job you’re applying for.

        Just had a quick look at the original thread. I always do these with each item in the spec in bold and then a paragraph of prose explaining how I meet it.

  33. SNS*

    We’re having our Halloween “party” this afternoon (a trivia game, but mostly a reason to slack off on a Friday afternoon) and a surprising amount of my coworkers dressed up considering this was the first time we’re doing anything for Halloween. But the best costumes definitely go to my boss and coworker who both came in wearing those giant inflatable dinosaur costumes.

    Anyone else doing anything for Halloween? Or have any good dressing up at the office stories?

    1. Snark*

      One time I had to visit a field site that was located at 11,000 feet on an alpine ridge. In late October. Predictably, I was dressed for a 9-mile hike in snow with 60mph winds and 30 degree temperatures, which is to say, I looked like I was preparing for an Everest summit attempt, complete with glacier goggles and crampons.

      Then I brought the malfunctioning data logger back to my lab, and the department Halloween party was in full swing. Everyone was like, wooo, Snark, rad costume, and I’m like….wait what? Oh.

      1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

        The best Halloween was when I went to the party wearing my field clothes, complete with mud. Easiest archaeologist costume ever.

          1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

            Meh. He’s one of those flashy profs who show up when the BBC is filming but couldn’t actually dig his way out of a wet paper bag and has no idea how to do the paperwork.

              1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

                LOL in my world we wear hard hats and high vis vests! Though I am keen to get one of the hard hats shaped like a cowboy hat. I don’t think I’d be allowed to wear it in the UK though.

    2. KK*

      Not doing anything at the office, but my husband and I are going to a costume party hosted by one of my husband’s grad school friends tonight. We’re going as TJ & Spinelli from Recess!

    3. Tris Prior*

      At one place I worked, a middle-aged male co-worker came in dressed like a baby. A FEMALE baby. That was fairly disturbing.

    5. Ramona Flowers*

      I read a good one on here about an interview conducted in costumes – including a giant pink bunny I think!

    6. Adlib*

      Well, last night a coworker (and friend) invited me to a Halloween party on a brew bike with her bunco group. We had the BEST time! I dressed as the grim reaper. Big black robe with a black veil over the face. My favorite thing was just standing around quietly with it up. Scared one lady to death just by standing near her!

    7. This Daydreamer*

      We’ll have a party. I’m not scheduled that day but may show up anyway. I LOVE Halloween more than any other holiday.

    8. Hashtag Petty*

      We don’t do anything at my current office, but Halloween was big at my last office. I was thrilled to see today that a former coworker posted an incredibly unflattering picture of my last boss (who was horrible) looking like an actual rat.

  34. Tea Time Anonymous*

    So I have an interesting problem. I started working at one of my dream companies not quite 2 months ago. Everything’s been great but I don’t know what to do about this situation. The company takes part in an entertainment industry (let’s say playing with tea sets) and they encourage employees to play during their free time, including at work. Problem is, I feel like my boss walks on me 3/4ths of the time playing because I’ll be waiting to hear from him for an hour, still nothing, so I start playing and then he walks in 5 mins. later to see me playing. Is there anyway to mitigate this?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Wait, but the company encourages you to play during your free time, so why is there anything to mitigate?

      1. Tea Time Anonymous*

        I guess it’s more because I feel like outwardly it looks like I’m not working or don’t have much to do.

    2. JulieBulie*

      OK, so play… but don’t play when you are waiting for him, because that’s the one time when your boss is likely to come looking for you.

      3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

        What they said. It’s the same principle that says that your dinner will arrive the moment you decide to go to the restroom at the restaurant.

    3. nonegiven*

      Any chance he has a camera set up, waiting for you to start playing?

      Test it, next time start playing right away and see if he shows up any more quickly.

  35. PM by Day Knitter by Night*

    So I work in a data center – open cubicle areas – with about 180 people. Signs went up this week that our desk trash would no longer be picked up, and that we’d be responsible for emptying it ourselves. That’s a new one on me. It’s not a big deal but it just strikes me as kind of a cheesy way to (presumably) save a few bucks. And also kind of weird. Anyone else subject to bizarre cost savings measures?

    1. Queen of the File*

      We have that here. I’m in favour of operating reasonably cheaply, but it always felt kind of inefficient that we now had to carry our own trash and recycling half a city block to the waste centre on the other side of the building. I mentioned this to someone shortly after the change was made and they looked at me like I must have grown up with a gold toilet in my house. I dunno! I guess cube-side pickup must be expensive?

    2. extra anon today*

      I worked for a small city (100k people) where they got rid of ALL janitorial staff for anyone not in city hall as a cost saving measure during the recession. We had to not only take out our own trash (including the break room and bathrooms) but mop /vacuum our own floors, clean the windows, clean the kitchen, pick up litter on the grounds, sort the recycling, the list goes on. I didn’t mind it because it would be nice to take a break from working and do some basic cleaning but it sure seemed odd that they were paying the director $40/hr to mop!

      1. Bibliovore*

        We had something similar at our office. I sent a note asking about how workers who cannot carry their trash across to the central location were to be accommodated. Our trash is picked up once a week in our department.

      2. LAI*

        I thought the same thing! The public university where I work cut janitorial services a few years ago due to budget issues. Every time I am sweeping the floor, I think “do they know how much they are paying me to do this?”

    3. SacherTorte*

      It could be that people are abusing their garbage cans and that the cleaning company/staff have brought up enough concerns that management is handling it by putting the responsibility back on the employees.

      I used to help my mom clean offices when I was a teen and this scenario played out at a few of them. You’d be amazed/horrified at the things people leave in the garbage cans right next to their desks.

        1. SacherTorte*

          Bodily waste is way more common than you would hope, as well as things that technically are garbage but are above the pay grade of an office cleaner to handle. I’ve seen everything from feces (presumably adult, as well as diapers that are unwrapped and loose) vomit and coughed up mucus (still wet! on the lip where maybe you don’t notice and it gets on you!), beard trimmings, rotten food (dumped loose), used condoms, dead mice from traps in the office…

          A lot of the offices that she worked for had cost cutting rules in effect like only replacing most garbage bags once a week, many just used a bare bin (kitchen and bathroom are sometimes exempt) so as the cleaner you occasionally have to literally handle the garbage. Then if there are no bags what do you do with the desecrated waste basket? Put it back dirty? Handwash them?

          On the plus side, between that job and working at an animal shelter there’s very little that most work places can do to gross me out. After I reached into a paper recycling bin at the tender age of 15 and accidentally put my hand in a diaper that some baby nuked from orbit my definition of a bad day shifted dramatically.

    4. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      The last place I worked had about the same number of cubes and they went one further. They took away the trash cans from cubes because they didn’t trust people to empty them. They were replaced with larger trash cans at the beginning of each cube row. They claimed it was to save the cleaning staff (which had just been reduced) time.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Same at my last company – our regular sized cube trash cans were replaced by pencil-holder sized trash “cups” to use at our desks, and those were to be emptied (by us) into larger bins near the doors.

        But I do think the savings (if any) were used up by the recycling and composting program, so in theory it was a good trade. In practice, the number of people who did not understand how to properly compost or recycle, despite charts explaining what goes where… pretty sure all of the bins ended up in landfill due to cross contamination.

        1. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

          It would be an improvement if we got little cups for rubbish. We have to improvise. Rubbish is collected from a central area (we have to take it down there, and separate the recycling), which is also where the printers are, so it can get crowded – which doesn’t stop ignorant idiots stopping there for a chat!
          We also get “cleaned” once a week – in practise this means a semi dirty cloth is wiped over whatever bits of the desk are clear, with keyboards and phones and personal effects unceremoniously shoved out of the way.
          Which is an improvement on my previous office. One of my colleagues had some ornamental turtles on her desk, and would frequently find them in a “turtle sutra” by one of the cleaners. Ick.

    5. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      My mid-sized nonprofit doesn’t pick up trash from cubes — in fact, they don’t provide trash bins for cubes and offices (instead, we have teeny-tiny contains for trash — like, the size of 1.5 cans of soda — that we’re supposed to use to collect trash and then bring it to the communal trash containers in the kitchenette/etc. when it’s full).

      It’s a part of our LEED certification; they discovered that by eliminating trash cans it reduced the overall amount of waste created at our building. Ok, fine. The downside is that there’s a literal pile of trash in the kitchen on Friday afternoons when everyone carries their personal trash to the communal trash container at the end of the week. (Oh, and lots of us bought larger trash bins for our cubes. They still don’t get picked up, but at least we don’t have to empty them as frequently as the little soda can sized containers.)

      Recycling is picked up daily from cubes, so there’s no cost savings in terms of janitorial support.

    6. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Last 2 places I worked were like this. Place #1 only had recycling bins at your desk and current doesn’t want you eating at your desk so no garbage can.

      1. PepperVL*

        Are you also never supposed to blow your nose at your desk, break a pen at your desk, etc.? I don’t put food trash in my cubicle trash can because the owner’s dog wanders the office sometimes, but I still use my trash can.

    7. KarenK*

      TPTB issued an edict that we had to bring our office trash to a central location, not particularly far away, just a bit down the hall. After either forgetting it or deciding to wait a few times, I noticed that someone was getting my trash again. Didn’t last long.

    8. Chaordic One*

      I recently moved away from a state where a lot of well-to-do (mostly corporate) donors had donated millions of dollars for new buildings in the state university system. New buildings. It sounds great. What could go wrong?

      Well, no one came up with any money for additional janitorial staff or for gardeners to tend the grounds surrounding these new buildings. The state is in recession and reluctant to pass any new taxes to pay for additional janitors. So the existing janitorial staff is doing the same amount of work spread over more buildings so really things aren’t getting done with the regularity that they should be.

  36. Bibliovore*

    We are in the middle of a “engagement survey” I wish I could pinpoint why it is so annoying. My department is always scoring super engaged. Nothing changes for the ones that aren’t engaged. They are not going to get more money, better hours, or more interesting work. We all want more staff. Not going to happen. Part-time staff wants full time jobs and benefits. Not going to happen. None of this is news but we pay a consultant firm big money to survey and compile results. Before it was strength training. Thoughts on this sort of thing?

    1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Why do they bother if nothing can realistically change? I had a somewhat similar exercise once, where we had to fill out these evaluation forms and create a plan for future training but it was a fixed term contract and everyone knew that only some of us would get extensions. It seemed kind of silly to make us go through it, but I guess maybe it helped them decide who to extend.

    2. Kathenus*

      I may be in a minority, but I think they can be useful if they are designed well and management is truly using them to try to foster positive change – and is committed to using the information to try to improve. One thing that might help, and I don’t think this is done enough in these kind of surveys, is to have verbiage for some of the questions on how to improve along the lines of ‘within current resources’. This way people are directed to try to focus on more realistic changes versus things like more staff, a new office, etc.

    3. NoMoreMrFixit*

      I’ve heard it referred to as management theatre. Give the illusion of doing something constructive without having to actually commit to anything. I’ve worked in places that would engage in these sort of exercises periodically but they were nothing more than a mirage and it was business as normal soon afterwards.

      Yes I worked in some pretty dysfunctional places. No wonder I’ve become cynical in my old age. :-)

  37. Stop That Goat*

    So, don’t need any help but today is my last day at my current employer before I move on to a lead position at a higher level and new branch of government. I’m pretty excited and I think the interview and cover letter advice on here had a large part to do with it. Thanks AAM (and community)!

  38. CoffeeLover*

    I’m getting some bad vibes from one place where I’m interviewing and I want to see what you guys think. I usually feel good after an interview, but something just feels off here…. its hard to say for sure though because its more vibes than anything serious.

    The company is a big global retailer and is the #1 place new grads want to work in the country. I’m not a new grad (a few years out) and I’m not from this country so I don’t have the same starry eyed look at the company.

    The things that make me pause:
    1) They’re super (SUPER) focused on culture. I had an hour long interview just talking about fit, which is important, but some questions rubbed me the wrong way because they were trying too hard to dig into my personality. Plus, an hour describing my personality (and only personality) with an HR person seems excessive. The reason this is a concern is because I’ve found in the past that companies that focus too much on culture do so because they have other, bigger problem (ie politics and poor management) that they’re glossing over. One glass door review confirmed as much (not that I want to base everything on that.)

    2) Speaking of glossing things over with “good” culture: I’ve heard the salary is way below market. While I’m not super concerned about salary, I think this reflects badly on how they value their people.

    3) In 2 hours of interviews I didn’t get the chance to ask a single question. It makes me feel like they don’t treat the hiring process as a two-way street and don’t respect candidates as having options. The interviews were basically one question after another, so I didn’t get to know the people interviewing me at all and it didn’t feel like a conversation. Not to mention that I’ve yet to interview with someone I would actually work with (and I’m almost at the final stage).

    4) They have a lot of people working for the firm that have only ever worked there. This is because they hire new grads a lot and promote quickly from within. While this might sound good, I’ve worked in this environment before and it usually meant a lot of inexperienced managers that are set in their ways. And people that don’t know what is and isn’t acceptable from an employer.

    I’m actually interviewing for 2 different roles at this company and I also got bad vibes from the other interview. That was only a phone screen though so I couldn’t exactly pinpoint where the vibes came from. Still 2/2 bad vibes isn’t something I should ignore right? Thoughts?

    1. Stop That Goat*

      I’m personally a proponent of following your gut instinct. The fact that you haven’t been able to ask questions or actually meet/talk to anyone from the team does seem off. Add on the salary issue on top of it and I’d think it was a serious red flag. I’d guess that since they hire a lot of new grads, they are able to lowball the salary pretty easily.

      1. Awkwardest Turtle*

        Yesss follow gut instincts. I had a bad gut feeling about one of my current bosses when I interviewed with him. Nothing I could even put my finger on, just a vibe. Turns out he was a jerk. Luckily I’ve outlasted him and I have much better bosses now.

      2. CatCat*

        I agree with this. The whole thing has been a time suck for you and only bad vibes have come from it.

        I mean, you could keep going if you have time for it, but you could also set the parameters for it, especially if you don’t really care if it stops now. You don’t have to keep jumping through hoops if you don’t want to. You can say if there are hoops you will jump through. If you get another callback, you can ask for more info. “Will I be meeting with the person who will be my supervisor?” “Before we continue, I want to make sure we’re in the same ballpark on the salary for this position. I’m looking for $X-$Y depending on benefits. Given this range, does it make sense for us to keep talking?”

        If you don’t like the answers to these types of questions or find they act cagey or annoyed, “Thank you for your time, but I’m going to withdraw from considerations for the position.”

        1. CoffeeLover*

          Thank you for all the input! Its nice to hear I’m not way off base here. I also tend to trust my gut as it’s served me well in the past. I do have the time (and I suppose can view it as practice if nothing else), so if I hear back I think I’ll go in for the final interview and ask some hard questions. Overall though, I’m definitely leaning towards no for this one. If I were a new grad, this would sound like an amazing opportunity. But frankly I’ve grown from then and don’t jump at the chance to drink the company koolaid.

    2. JulieBulie*

      I agree with Stop That Goat’s assessment. I wouldn’t say that the reddish flags are deal-breakers, but they’re not good either. This retailer is taking advantage of the fact that people want to work there.

      If you think it would still be a good thing to have on your resume, you can work there while continuing to look for something better.

    3. Mints*

      The first screens have been with HR, and you haven’t met with potential managers? I’d keep in the running until you meet the manager but keep aware of the flags you want to ask about

    4. Mockingjay*

      AVOID. AVOID. AVOID.

      Toxic ExJob was like this. (Link to previous open thread provided in reply.)

      How much time did you spend discussing the actual work involved? Did THEY have a clear understanding of what it should be? The latter was the biggest problem at Toxic ExJob. The company had won a contract with a big government agency and were hopelessly inexperienced in the work. They thought the culture would compensate. Nope.

      2. CoffeeLover*

        I read your previous post and yikes! The 1.5hr HR interview you had sounds like mine! I think it was one of the most exhausting interviews I ever had.

    5. This Daydreamer*

      Follow your instincts. The fact that you couldn’t ask any questions but they wanted to know everything about you seems really off kilter. It feels like they’re assuming that they’re such an amazingly awesome company that OF COURSE you’ll want to work there, so why would you want to ask silly questions about work/life balance or benefits?

    6. Lemon Zinger*

      I worked for a company like that (possibly the company you are describing). It was horrible. Listen to your gut and stay away!

    7. Windchime*

      If this is the big, giant company in Seattle, they have a reputation of being kind of a sweatshop. Might be OK if you’re just getting out of university, but it’s not someplace I even applied to when I was looking last year. I’m more interested in stability and reasonable work/life balance, and that giant retailer probably isn’t the place to get it. Proceed, but proceed with caution.

      1. one_more*

        This actually was my first thought too. I actually interviewed with them in Europe but my experience was similar to what is described here.

          1. one_more*

            Oh :) If it is what I think it is (there are not so many well-known Scandinavian retailers, are there?) then I’m a bit surprised. The company from Seattle is known for being like this, but the Scandinavian retailer isn’t as far as I know.

            1. CoffeeLover*

              I’m not concerned about worklife balance – these guys are known to have that under conteocontrol

            2. CoffeeLover*

              I’m not concerned about worklife balance – these guys are known to have that under control. I’m more concerned about poor management and not valuing employees (under paying, ignoring input, not rewarding based on personal performamce, etc.)

    8. Marthooh*

      #1 place new grads want to work? Bad news. They can get their choice of employees and then mistreat them because they’re too inexperienced to know better.

      Run away as fast as you can, shouting “It’s a cookbook! It’s a cookbook!”

      1. CoffeeLover*

        Haha yep. My first “real” job was at one of these firms that heavily targets new
        grads. It was not a good environment and has made me really question any place that thinks having the majority of staff be inexperienced is a good idea.

  39. Lolly Scrambler*

    How long has it taken you to get a contract after your informal offer and did it arrive via email or snail mail? It’s only been 10 days since I got the job but I am very impatient to quit the job I have. Also are you supposed to say something to your boss before you have something formal or can it wait until it’s official?

      2. Amey*

        I work at a UK university and I remember it took ages for my contract to come through. I didn’t have anything in writing before then and I don’t think they quite understood that I wanted that before handing in my notice (!!) I don’t think it would be a problem at all to get in touch with your new employer to check the timeline. I think I probably went back to the head of the hiring committee who was the person who called to offer me the job and that would be totally fine to do at my university.

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I just accepted a new job at a US university. I got the verbal off on the 12th and the written offer on the 23rd. The written offer was pending a background check, which I was confident that I would pass, but I did not tell my current boss until I had the offer in writing. So long as you are still able to give two weeks’ notice from date of acceptance of the written offer, my cautious self would go that route.

      1. Murphy*

        Yeah, if there’s a background check, it can take a while. I always wait for a written offer before providing notice.

        1. Lolly Scrambler*

          Thanks Not a Real Giraffe and Murphy. I am waiting for the written offer just wish it would hurry up!

  40. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

    How can I address the office winker? I need scripts to politely tell him that winking at the women in the office (because I’m pretty sure he doesn’t wink at any of the men) is not an office appropriate greeting. He’s such a nice guy, but every time he says good morning and winks at me, I try not to outwardly flinch.
    Or is this not a big deal? Or should I just tell him that *I* feel uncomfortable with his winking and not get into how he greets the men in the office vs. the women?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Send him some screenshots of people’s Twitter reactions to Woody Allen’s remarks on Harvey Weinstein.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Are you his direct supervisor? If so, then it should be a pretty straight forward conversation.

      If not, can you ask his direct supervisor to mention how inappropriate it is?

    3. A.N.O.N.*

      Similar issue.

      One particular custodian winks every time I see him. I referred to him once as “the one who winks” and my male boss had no idea who I was talking about. My female coworker knew instantly.

      Personally, I’m ok flinching internally, rolling my eyes, and letting it go. It’s not a big enough offense that I think warrants saying anything – but that’s because I see him once, maybe a twice, a week and in passing only. You may feel differently if you have more contact with him. Perhaps a casual “Hey, what’s with the winking?” next time you see him as an indicator that it’s a Slightly Weird Thing will be enough to get him to stop.

    4. strawberries and raspberries*

      EW. No, it is a big deal. I think you can frame it like, “I don’t know if you’re aware, but winking can come across as flirtatious, so if you can help it please try not to wink at your coworkers.”

      I’ll never forget at my last site when we were doing a recruitment event and I was eating a sandwich at my desk (because I was still working on something while I ate) and this candidate walked by me and said, “Enjoy that!” in this drippy flirtatious voice and winked. SO GROSS. I obviously told the Account Manager doing the screening, who later told me that the guy winked at him afterwards also.

    7. FD*

      Are you his supervisor? If you aren’t, then I think you’d be better off just sticking with asking you not to wink at you. He’ll likely use some variant on “You’re too uptight” or “Can’t a man greet a pretty lady?” so be prepared for that. Captain Awkward has some good scripts to field that on this morning’s post.

    8. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      Thanks all! He’s my coworker, so I’ll go with the confused/concerned, but pointed questions about his winking at me specifically.

    9. Camellia*

      You, making Concerned Face: “Oh my gosh!!! Are you okay??? Do you have something in your eye??? No??? Are you sure??!!??”

      Him: [whatever, doesn’t really matter what he says to justify/explain]

      You, shaking head, now with Frowny-but-still-somewhat-concerned Face: “Well, that was weird! I thought for sure you had some kind of eye problem it was soooo twitchy!!! Goodness!”

      Then promptly and smoothly walk away, continuing with shaking head.

      Repeat as needed.

    10. Cabinet Door Builder*

      I’ve worked most of my life in areas that are male heavy. Truly, it’s probably a habit, and I’ve always just addressed things like this as habits.

      “You know, you probably don’t realize you’re doing this, but every morning when you say hello you wink at me. I realize it’s probably just a lifetime habit and means nothing to you, but can you stop? It just comes across in a way I’m sure you don’t intend. Can you change it to a habit of not winking? I’ll remind you if you forget.”

      This has worked me me multiple times. In some cases it was sexism, but by treating it in this light, I’ve educated the offender and stopped the problem. It also usually takes a reminder or two, but once he knows you’re serious, he’ll stop.

  41. Panhandling*

    I had an interesting panhandling experience this morning. I’m walking to work, minding my own business, when a guy asks “do you know about any jobs that are hiring?” Sorry guy, no. But good luck.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      If it happens again, can you refer him to the state career center or something?

      I was walking (for exercise) one day and some dude in a car pulled up beside me to ask if I had a cigarette. DO I LOOK LIKE I AM SMOKING RIGHT NOW

      1. people really do that*

        ha! Would smoking while exercising be better or worse than my neighbor’s habit of eating chips and drinking Dr Pepper on his 2+ mile walks?

        1. dawbs*

          Once upon a time, I ate 1/4 of a bag of marshmallows while riding an exercise bike.
          Sorry/notsorry/I totally shouldn’t admit that.

  42. MechanicalPencil*

    Just wanted to give a shout out to all the HR people actually are able to take steps to help employees (or try to). Thanks for caring and doing all you can to help.

  43. Typhon Worker Bee*

    It’s my last day in my current job today! It’s my first time ever leaving a job I like that has funding to keep me. Even though I’m confident I’m making the right move and I’m excited to start my new job on Wednesday, I have a bit of an “ohhhh, what have I done?” feeling about leaving a job where I enjoy (most of) the work, know how to do it without too much angst, and really like the people I work with. (I moved here after having a job where I liked the people but didn’t enjoy the work, to one where I enjoyed the work but had no people (very isolated desk and role), so I’m extra appreciative of having a job where I like both, and it’s tough to leave!)

    1. Stop That Goat*

      I understand! I was pleased with my job but was ready to move up the ladder and today is my last day. I have very little complaints about my current position and I went back and forth a lot before I accepted the new one. It may take a bit but if you are confident you are making the move, I’m sure the anxiety will ease up. At least I hope so!

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I’m right there with you this week! I just gave notice to a job that I have nothing against, and I will be very sad to leave some of my colleagues. I always find that as soon as I give notice, I immediately gain rose-colored glasses about my current work environment. It’s like preemptive nostalgia.

      I think it’s helpful to reframe it as being able to walk away with good memories before anything sours, and keep in mind that there was a reason you accepted a new job in the first place!

    3. JN*

      Me three. I’m one week into my 3 week notice period to leave my current job for a similar one in the same metro area that will pay me more. Low salary here (and knowing it wouldn’t change) was why I searched (still like my boss, coworkers, duties, etc.). I’ll be doing some of the same kinds of things and a few new things as well, but I am feeling a bit of wistfulness and nerves about leaving a known quantity for the unknown (and finding a new place to live at the same time). And dealing with an insurance company about an accident I was in that was caused by one of their drivers (one who didn’t report the accident to them in the week and a half between when it happened and when I called them and reported it).

    4. Typhon Worker Bee*

      Good to know I’m not alone :)

      I’ve had kind of a crazy week jam-packed with extra meetings (everyone seemed to suddenly realise I’m leaving all at once, even though I gave six weeks notice), so it’s not been fun, which is helping in a strange way!

          1. Typhon Worker Bee*

            Yes, I have (I contributed some money to the kickstarter campaign), and I agree. It’s hard to tell the difference between Sayer and Ocean, for starters. I think I need to wait until the season ends, then listen to the whole thing all the way through, instead of one episode every two weeks. I re-listened to the whole series before this new season started, and it did seem to help!

  44. A.N.O.N.*

    (Regarding NYC’s new salary history law)

    So starting Tuesday, we’re not allowed to ask candidates their salary history (including benefits). That said, if a candidate voluntarily and without prompting discloses their salary history, we’re allowed to consider that information and also to verify it.

    A) I am assuming this means we are only able to verify the information a candidate tells us regarding their salary history. (Example: if they tell us about a specific benefit they receive at their current company, we are only allowed to verify that particular benefit at that company, and no other benefits.) Is this correct? No communication I’ve seen has explicitly stated this – it always uses the plural and all-encompassing “salary history” – but it’s what makes sense.

    B) While I understand the need to allow employers to consider salary history if volunteered, doesn’t this pave the way for some sketchy practices? My mind is already envisioning tons of scenarios where this gets twisted, from candidates thinking that disclosing more information will endear them to companies, to companies that never explicitly prompt candidates but has candidates “volunteer” the information. Thoughts?

    1. FormerOP*

      Yeah, I am a little skeptical about the efficacy of these types of laws (I think in a healthy way.) There is just so much potential for humans to find ways around these restrictions, and potential for unintended consequences. I can imagine that there are situations where people will get low-balled on salary because the new employer will ASSUME that a woman (for example) is getting paid less at her current job, and just continue to offer a low salary. I agree with your point B that some folks will decide it is worth it to disclose salary, which again seems like a case of unintended consequences.

      1. Natalie*

        Isn’t this true of any labor law, though? There are people skirting minimum wage, mandatory overtime, tax withholding, etc. I don’t think it’s a compelling reason to not have those regulations.

    2. Alice*

      Why would you want to verify their past benefits? I mean, whether they got benefit X or not at their last job, they’re asking for it now. And you have to decide if you want to provide it, whether or not company Y provided it. How does one thing affect the other?

      2. A.N.O.N.*

        This isn’t tied to a specific situation – just trying to discuss the law.

        Benefits can be a huge part of one’s compensation plan. The “verifying” part isn’t really the key here- it’s the being able to consider it when making an offer. If you’re applying for a job, you might not ask for a specific benefit, but if you (voluntarily) told a company that you were receiving $X annually with 1 week of vacation and no 401(k), and the company you’re applying to offers 5 weeks of vacation and a 10% match, then they may offer a smaller increase. Not saying that’s good practice (it’s not!), but it happens.

        1. Alice*

          I’m sure it does happen…. I suppose the only thing one can do is try to stay on the alert for patterns of certain groups of people getting lower compensation (or worse benefits packages).
          I hope that your organization allows you to discuss the range that’s associated with the position early in the process, so that you and candidates can cut things off early when your range and the candidates’ ranges are far apart. Good luck!

        2. Epsilon Delta*

          I can kind of see where you’re coming from here, but my feeling is (having never hired someone), either the position is worth $X that the candidate is asking for, or it’s not. The fact that they came up with $X because they added old salary plus benefits (vs they just want $X and aren’t considering benefits) doesn’t really change anything on your end right?

          I guess I could see verifying it if they are trying to negotiate vacation time, but most other benefits like health insurance aren’t negotiable. Again I come back to, my feeling is, the job is worth a certain amount to you, why does that change based on the candidate’s previous job?

  45. Karen*

    How do you handle feedback that you strongly disagree with? I mean in the sense that it’s hard for you to understand how someone could even come to the conclusion that you need to improve on something. We recently had a leadership change and the new leader says I need to improve in area X. But this was something I saw as a real strength of mine and it was something my previous leader praised me for (and he was generally a very honest person) and that I’ve been praised by other areas of the company that I’ve worked with. When I asked for examples, this person said that she’d heard it from “multiple areas” that I needed improvement, but wouldn’t get more specific than that. When I mentioned that I’d heard otherwise, she said that sometimes people won’t be completely honest with you in an attempt to spare your feelings. But I kind of feel like my previous leader isn’t the type to spare my feelings and the feedback was actually on my performance assessment.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I would probably follow up again and ask for specific examples, not to protest and say “Hey, I’m actually good at this!” but more in the vein of “I can work on this better if I know exactly what I’m working on.”

    2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Yikes. I guess I’d try to get them to tell me at least what “areas” this feedback came from. I would not be surprised they were from different areas of their own head. Failing that, is there anyone in those other areas that you could ask for informal feedback?

    3. Gandalf the Nude*

      It would suck, but it’s possible that she’s right. So I think I would start by covering that base and going to some of the people who have praised me before and ask for their feedback again, explaining that New Leader said she’d heard from multiple people that it was something I needed to improve. I’d be explicit that I would welcome any suggestions and not to worry about hurting my feelings. I would probably also do the same with folks I’d worked with in area X that hadn’t praised me. It’s possible that even if X is an area of strength for you that there’s still room for improvement, which would be good to know!

      If that reinforced my perception of X as a strength, though, I’d either roll on and ignore New Leader’s comment (probably privately thinking she’s sort of a doof) or circle back to her to push back, depending on my sense of what she wanted. That second part would probably be something like “I thought about what you said about improving in area X and actually asked folks for their honest feedback. But no one suggested any areas for improvement. I’m a little stuck here. Could you be more specific about what you’ve heard or from whom?” She might then give you something concrete to work with, but I suspect she’ll continue with her vagaries, in which case see: ignore and privately think she’s a doof.

    4. LCL*

      Having been in this exact situation before, I would say the new leader wants you to do this task her way instead of your way. Or you are really good at your job and she is seeing you as a threat. Or possibly both.
      ‘ Multiple areas’ or ‘multiple people’ are the adult equivalent of ‘everybody sez’ and are generally cover up double speak for ‘this is what I think’.

    6. princess carolyn*

      I suggest pushing back on the lack of specific information. If it’s a legit critique, your new leader should be able to come up with a couple of examples of times you came up short in this area. If it’s a bogus critique, a decent leader/manager will realize that when they discover they have no specific information.

      Do you have records of past performance evaluations that praise you for your skills in X? If so, pull those out and see if you can make sense of the situation. It’s possible the leader is saying “X” when they really mean “Y,” or that you’re fantastic at one aspect of X but they want you to be better at a different aspect.

      Finally, is this the sort of thing you can quantify at all? Push to set some kind of goal in this area, something more measurable than “Be better at X.” That way you’ll know how your future performance stacks up against this current criticism.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      “What would you like that I am not doing? I will gladly adjust as soon as I know where to adjust.”

      I have also been known to use the “tire them out” approach, especially when I have strong reason to believe the complaint is bogus. “Okay, so you don’t have anything that you can put your finger on. Can we come back to this on a different day? I would like us to take some incubation time and figure out how I can better help our department. Is Friday a good day to come back to this?”

      General approach, show sincere concern, use a sincere tone of voice. Get specifics of how I can improve. If nothing is forthcoming then I nail down a date to meet again and discuss it further.

      In some cases, they forget the appointment and don’t show up. I ask to reschedule with saying, “I like my job and it’s important to me to do a good job that is of value to the company.” Just my experience, but good bosses are impressed and bad bosses are ticked that I keep following up. Good bosses will sit down with me and bad bosses will say “oh never mind”.

  46. Question for Employment Lawyers!*

    Any advice/thoughts for someone considering a career switch to employment law?

    Background:
    Currently doing HR but more and more thinking that I’d really like the law side of it. That said, I’m not sure about the work-life balance… I’m more of a work-to-live than a live-to-work type.

    1. CatCat*

      Government is usually pretty reasonable on work-life. Where I live, there are complex laws related to public sector employment on top of union contracts. When I did employment stuff, it was pretty interesting. I did some training, but mostly dealt with disciplinary matters.

  47. Uncivil Engineer*

    I am not looking forward to work next Monday. I have a discipline conference set up with one of my staff. He absolutely deserves the disciplinary action. He’s been doing the same wrong thing for YEARS but nobody has ever dealt with it. I’ve supervised him for 6 months, had numerous conversations with him about it, and he keeps doing it. I have a feeling he’ll think he’s been blindsided (because that’s the kind of guy he is) but my documentation shows we’ve talked about this multiple times in person and by email. Plus, it was noted as an issue for improvement in his performance evaluation two months ago.

    Is there anyone who has to do this often enough that they are good at it? How do you get through it without getting a knot in your stomach?

    1. Snark*

      It doesn’t get easier, and you’re never as good at it as you think you need to be. I’d roll out the previous discussions as part of the introduction. “Percival, we’ve talked about your llama grooming technique in your performance evaluation two months ago and we’ve discussed it several times over email and in person. At this point, the changes I need to see haven’t been happening, and I don’t see a trend of improvement.” And then roll out the PIP or whatever.

      And if he acts blindsided, I think you can shut that right down. “We discussed it two months ago and we’ve talked about it a number of times, so this cannot be a surprise.”

    2. Artemesia*

      You will get a knot in your stomach — that is just how it is. It is critical that you not be defensive, apologetic or pull your punches. You need to be calm and collected and stress that you have spoken to him about this X times, that the behavior is continuing and that you need him to do Y. Does he think he can do this? Then let him know you will touch base again in (appropriate unit of time or a week).

      You can feel lousy. Most people do. But you have to not be defensive about doing your job. He has slid for years with this. Others have probably backed off. Don’t back off, be matter of fact and expect change and definitely follow up in an appropriate unit of time whether he succeeds or fails to do what is required.

      1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

        And I second all of this. Plus, it’s OK if things don’t go 100% perfectly. It happens.

        1. Bibliovore*

          I was in this situation. I felt like crap due to anxiety. Seriously physically ill. Here is what helped. Stay on my side of the street. This is the job. These are the tasks. These are the expectations. Do not get sidetracked. Focus on what is. AND
          People have told me and every time my mind went to the meeting, I am not doing anything to the employee. The employee had choices. There are people out in the world who would love to have this job and do great work.

          1. Uncivil Engineer*

            I keep repeating in my head: He did this to himself. He did this to himself.

            It’s sort of working.

    3. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I’m going to be laying someone off in the next hour or so who fits that description almost entirely. She will blatantly deny every having done anything remotely wrong in the 10 years that she’s worked here (yes, she’s been allowed to linger that long), and loves to dredge up every way she’s perceived that the company has wronged her. So our plan is to be direct, relay the information we need to relay, and move her out without really giving her a chance to get rolling. At this point, there’s nothing to be done to change the situation, so there’s nothing to discuss.

      Fingers crossed it actually goes according to plan….

    4. Not So NewReader*

      One thing that has helped me is telling myself, “Our group needs/wants me to do this. I have to do this to provide fair leadership for the entire group. I cannot have one level of expectations for the group and a lower level of expectations for Bob.”

      The other thing is to decide that nothing is up for debate. X needs to be done in Y manner. It’s not cruel or abusive to have expectations and have rules/guidelines that need to be followed. What is actually unrealistic is the view that things can be done in a random or slipshod way.

  49. Data Analytics*

    Has anyone used Udacity/Coursera/DataCamp or other similar to learn new skills and actually leverage that into a new career or job? I’m looking at data analytics courses, but just can’t swing a part-time degree in either money or time just yet.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I haven’t, but I also find data analysis fascinating. There are some LinkedIn Learning courses that I’m planning to do this weekend while they’re offering a free trial.

    3. Cloud Nine Sandra*

      I used Udemy to improve my word skills, the improvement was notable enough that I got a temp job where they specifically wanted someone with advanced skills at word. I don’t know about a degree.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      I took an HTML5 class from Coursera recently. It was nice, but it’s SO basic and unless you pay, you don’t get any feedback on what you’re doing or credit of any kind. Thankfully it’s free if you only audit. I feel like I would need a lot more practice and instruction to really master a skill this way; however, YMMV.

    5. Borgette*

      I’ve used Edx (specifically the datascience path) and Codecademy, and have enjoyed both. For me, it was more of a keep myself sharp while work is slow type thing, but I found them useful. That said, I think I’ve learned more *practical* data analysis skills, and built up a pretty substantial portfolio, by participating in weekly Makeover Monday challenges. (see username link!)

      1. Data Analytics*

        Thank you so much for this link! I was wondering how I would build up a portfolio. I’m too much of a beginner now to really use it, but it will be something to look forward to.

        1. Borgette*

          Yo, feel free to reach out directly with Excel, spreadsheet, and data viz questions. We’re rooting for you! (Contact info available via username link)

  50. Clever Name*

    If you’re ever inclined to outright lie on your resume/in interviews/on the job about your skills. Just don’t you will be found out. I had a coworker who was hired to be our teapot expert. Except he was barely proficient and couldn’t do tasks independently. He was also a condescending jerk. After a long process of a PIP, he was ultimately fired.

    I just heard through the grapevine that he applied for a similar job at another company in my industry. I guess they called one of our principals for employment verification and we told the other company that no, we would not hire him again. Shortly after that phone call, a different coworker gets a call from a friend of hers who works at the other company asking her what the deal was. This person at the other company said that the fired coworker was all arrogant and leaning back in the interview and he told them how much training he did for us (he didn’t- he was the one constantly asking for help) and that he left because our teapot work was drying up (also a lie- we hired 3 teapot specialists after he left). Apparently his resume was golden but his performance in the interview was just weird. She was confused by his interview and then us saying we wouldn’t hire him again and kept thinking that stuff wasn’t adding up. So my coworker tells her that none of that was true and that he didn’t know what he was doing, and he was also extremely difficult to work with and he was ultimately fired.

    I mean, part of me feels bad for the guy; he’s out of a job. But part of me doesn’t; he flat-out lied multiple times and he dug his own grave.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      The one time I fired someone it was because he mentioned something that alerted me to a lie on his resume. I mean, dude, don’t just tell me about it like you forgot (which I guess he did).

  51. Mean Girl Manager*

    I feel like I’ve recently come to a tipping point with a coworker (my new manager, actually!), and I’m trying to figure out if and how I should say something about it.

    Some background: I’ve been at my current company for about four years. I started here soon after college graduation, and have been promoted once since I was hired. We’ve had a few rounds of layoffs, and in the most recent one, my manager was laid off.

    The other senior employee I work most closely works remotely, and the head of our division wanted me to have a manager who was in the office, so now I report to her second in command—let’s call her Gretchen. I still work mostly with this other employee, and have been assuming this was more of a formality than anything.

    Gretchen is… not my best coworker. She loves to gossip and play favorites, and regularly finds ways to push a lot of her work onto more junior employees. She likes to say she doesn’t have a filter, but that translates to saying a lot of really inappropriate things—for example, the #MeToo movement came up during a meeting, and she complained about feeling left out because she had never been sexually harassed. This week, a coworker I were wearing similar outfits. When we passed Gretchen in the hall, she said we looked like twins, then turned to my coworker and said “but you look way better”.

    Yesterday felt like a tipping point to me. About 3 weeks ago, I was assigned two projects that Gretchen was supposed to tell me about. Several other people had mentioned to me that these projects were coming my way, but nothing from Gretchen until yesterday, when she asked if the news had “trickled down to me” about these projects. Then she said they’d be “fun projects to cut my teeth on,” which annoyed me, because they’re the type of work that I’ve been doing for years.

    In short, I’m incredibly frustrated with my manager. She doesn’t seem to know what I do or how long I’ve been here, and I’m increasingly grossed out by some of her interpersonal reactions. I’m currently interviewing for a new job at a different company, so this problem might very well solve itself in a few weeks, but what do I do in the meantime, or if this other job doesn’t work out?

    1. J.B.*

      Try to avoid her as much as possible. If you hear rumors about projects ask about them proactively and casually. Sorry :(

  52. N.J.*

    My boss…doesn’t like me. I think I’ve brought some of it on myself. I had a period of several months where I was 10-15 minutes late most days, which I’ve cleared up for the mot part. My projects move at a glacial pace, a product of the learning curve in the field and waiting for other people to give me feedback, information or approvals. For these items, I was previously told I was being too pushy and that I also needed to back off the strategic and project management end of things. I did. Now my boss only has something that say or comment on my projects when she thinks I’m NOT being proactive enough. She won’t read my emails or respond to them most times, but when I venture into her office, like today, she was irritated I was there and indicated she was in the middle of a task and did I need her at the moment. Well, considering I try to keep such a low profile as to be nearly invisible to avoid irritating her, you would think that showing up in her office means I had something important to ask about/discuss. Is it a reflection of my own incompetence, perceived or real, that she can’t stand me or am I just that fundamentally irritating and inconsequential as a person that she can’t deign to provide me with any managerial support unless I catch her in the right mood or pester her? I guess this is a venting more than a question but had to get it off my chest.

    1. Clever Name*

      It sounds like it’s her and not you. Sorry you’re dealing with this. She sounds awful, frankly.

      1. N.J.*

        The thing is, she is pleasant every once in awhile and seems…warmer…for lack of a bettter word, with my other coworker’s that report to her. If I am really that bad you think she would just come out and say it, at least as it relates to work items.

    2. JulieBulie*

      It’s her.

      I don’t have good advice. I had a boss who didn’t like me (he said so to my face), and it didn’t turn out well. All you can do is focus on being an objectively good employee, rather than on trying to please her, because she is determined to be displeased by you.

      2. Manager Librarian*

        “I had a period of several months where I was 10-15 minutes late most days, which I’ve cleared up for the most part.”
        So this caught my eye. This would make me crazy as a supervisor. Often I want to start the day with a quick five minute check in. Pull the team together for a standing meeting. Where are we on project x, y, and z? Then get on with the day with my work. “for the most part” didn’t fix the lateness issue.
        Sounds like she may have already written you off. Unfair but might be true. Perhaps a progress report in an email will smooth things along in relationship communications.

        Also it may have nothing to do with you.

        1. N.J.*

          She meets with us as a group, once a week, on Mondays, at mid-morning. The attendance thing has been “fixed” since February or March. Yes, I think this hurt me. It’s complicated by her reaction to that problem, which I thought was weird. Her rationale for caring that an exempt salaried employee was late every morning wasn’t productivity, or inconvenience or thst I was impacting her workflow or anyone else’s. She indicated that if I’m not there on time she can’t justify to others that our department as a whole is overworked and that the project I work on needs more staffing in the future. She also talked about, in my opinion a misguided and infantilizing view, the fact that if I came in late I stayed late…and how that could be a safety issue and really no one should be here for our department before 6 am or after 6 pm ish. This from someone who talked about the possibility of coming in on Saturdays when she had to help with a special project and in a department in which one other coworker comes in at 5:15 and another was just complaining she had to stay until 8 pm the other night. So she explicitly acknowledged that I got my time (the general expectation of at least 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week) and was good at doing that, but wouldn’t just say it’s a personal nitpick of hers tobe on time or whatever is actually going on here? She has not once found me at the beginning of the day to see what I’m up to. Most of the time she and my grand boss act like I don’t exist. That’s why I can’t figure out what is going on and have concluded that early irritation with me or actual concern for my work performance, though I got a good annual review last year, has morphed into dislike or she has always disliked me?

          1. Ramona Flowers*

            “She indicated that if I’m not there on time she can’t justify to others that our department as a whole is overworked and that the project I work on needs more staffing in the future.”

            This actually isn’t unreasonable. The frosty Miranda Priestly act is another story.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Try not to get too stuck on if she likes you or not. It really does not matter if people like us or dislike us, what matters is how well we work together. Your best bet is to decide that you want to work well with her and let the rest go. I remember working with one person who was the polar opposite of me. The only thing we had in common was a desire to do a good job. We blew the boss’ mind with our productivity.

            We don’t have to agree with our boss’ rationale for anything. For your own peace of mind it might be easier to just take it at face value.It’s not infantilizing to be concerned about safety issues. It’s normal for a boss to express those concerns. and it is part of their job. She probably has no say about what happens in other departments. I can’t say this to her because she did not write in, but maybe if you let go of some of your irritation with her maybe things would improve? at least a little?

        2. N.J.*

          I also regularly send progress notes, questions and updates by email and have made sure over time to make them shorter and more concise, but she still won’t read or respond to most of my emails. Novel length emails from other folks? Yep, she responds to them!

  53. Rezia*

    I was wondering if a French braid makes one look younger, and if a French braid is appropriate for work. For context, I’m in my late 20s and don’t want to look any younger at work, but I don’t have a baby face. I like a French braid because it’s neat and keeps my hair out of my face but someone recently mentioned at work that hair down looks more grownup (this wasn’t directed at me, I had my hair down that day). That made me wonder about what different hairstyles convey.

    1. DevAssist*

      I think a French braid is perfectly appropriate! I know a woman in her 50’s who has always styled her hair in a long French braid, and it has never made her look like she was trying to look younger!

    2. Turkletina*

      For me, personally, a French braid reads older. I wouldn’t do a Dutch braid if you’re worried about looking younger (since that seems to be the current trend in braids).

      Honestly, though, I think there are very few styles that aren’t appropriate for work, like pig tails and sweatbands.

    3. Morning Glory*

      I tend to see a single french braid as an athletic hairstyle because it’s so practical for working out, but I would not think twice if I saw a coworker with it, and would not think of it as particularly ‘young.’

      A french braid with the braid tail tucked and pinned, meanwhile, I see as a sophisticated and professional hairstyle; it’s an arbitrary distinction though because it’s basically the same hairstyle.

      1. Rezia*

        Thanks, that’s helpful! I do tuck and pin the end, and was hoping that would help it come across as more professional and less “lacrosse team,” so it’s nice to hear others view it similarly.

    4. Queen of the File*

      That’s interesting! I once had a coworker comment that hair up (French twist or tidy bun) was the only professional ‘do after seeing a manager walk by with long hair worn loose. There can be a lot of (cultural, classist, sexist, etc.) baggage around hairstyles at work.

    5. Murphy*

      There’s a woman at my office who looks a bit young, and she says she’s been chastised for keeping her long hair down. So I think there’s no winning and you should do what you want!

    6. cornflower blue*

      Hair being tied back is a safety necessity in my work, so people don’t talk about maturity in regards to hairstyle. I could see pigtails possibly getting some odd looks, but otherwise I doubt it would be mentioned.

    7. Melody Pond*

      I’m in my early 30s and I have pretty long hair. I’ve heard Alison say that long hair tends to read “young”, but less so when it’s put back/away. At my job, I oscillate between wrapping my hair up in a simple twisty bun and french braiding it (actually, lately I’ve been dutch braiding it – similar, but slightly different).

      Granted, I work in a less formal business-casual environment now – but even at my last job, which was much more on the formal side of business-casual, I often wore my hair in a french or dutch braid.

      For me, since I tend to be so minimalist about my hair, and I don’t really want to put any product in it (the smell of most hair products makes me gag), I feel like braiding it is one simple way that I can make my hair look “done” or “put together” in a way that still meets my standards/preferences.

    8. Clever Name*

      I think as long as you’re not wearing 2 french braids topped with a flat-brimmed hat tilted to the side you won’t read as young with a French braid. (An intern at my office does this, and I’ve been tasked with helping to coach her in professional demeanor).

    9. Artemesia*

      I just wish I could do a French braid. I think they look dignified if neat and am awestruck that people can do them with their own hair.

      1. JeanB in NC*

        I was just thinking that! I can’t do anything with my hair that involves me reaching around to the back of my head (other than a simple ponytail, of course). I’m growing my hair out and I am just going to have to start doing something with it.

        1. Artemesia*

          I use French clips — twist and then clip with a little pony fall above the clip, or one of those basket clips. And of course pony tails but at my age that looks a bit careless or silly. I got a really pretty pewter clip from Oberon that makes leather kindle and nook covers — but the best clips are in Paris, so you need to go there. LOL

          1. Anon attorney*

            I’m glad to hear this because I have midlength hair and really need an excuse to go to Paris!

      2. Rezia*

        Ha – to be completely transparent part of the reason for this question now is that I’ve finally mastered French braiding my own hair after trying on and off for years. So I want to use this new skill now!

    10. Elizabeth West*

      I wear my long hair down–if people don’t like it, that’s too freaking bad. I only put it up at home. IMO, the only thing that matters is if the hair is clean and well-groomed. Meaning if it’s down, it’s not all ratty and unbrushed, and if up, it’s at least somewhat neat. A French braid would fit the bill just fine.

  54. DevAssist*

    Hi All! I’m back needing advice again…

    I have an interview next Tuesday for a job that is in the field I really want to work in (nonprofit development). So far my experience is more aligned with being an administrative assistant and education (like in the office- not teaching).

    Any advice for how to wow them in the interview, or encouraging stories about starting in nonprofit development?

    1. It's all Fun and Dev*

      I work in development, though in higher ed (which has its own quirks). Basically, it’s a job of forming relationships. Anything you can highlight about your comfort initiating interactions, reaching out to people, and delivering top-notch customer service is good. Different orgs structure their fundraising teams differently, so I’d be sure to ask who you’ll be working with, how involved you’ll be with the program itself, and try to gauge the leadership’s attitude toward fundraising/fundraisers. I recommend checking out the Veritus Group blog, (veritusgroup dot com), it’s written by two fundraising consultants and has a lot of great insight into the work. It’s aimed at frontline fundraisers, but can give you a sense of the type of work you’ll be stepping into no matter what your role would be.

      Also, nonprofit development is notoriously high-turnover, and a lot of it has to do with poor management (classic case of people who are great at their work getting promoted until they are primarily in supervisory roles, which isn’t necessarily their strong suit), so I recommend definitely trying to feel out the management style and general team culture and morale. Try to speak directly with people who would be your peers (both inside and outside the development team), and be on the lookout for red flags.

      I’ve only been in development for a few years, and it’s definitely a great career to be in. Getting in the door is the hardest part, but if frontline fundraising is your goal, the sky is the limit in terms of future career opportunities. Let me know if you have any other questions that I can help answer. Good luck!

      1. It's all Fun and Dev*

        Oh! I forgot to mention, I was an admin assistant at a nonprofit before I got into development. I got my foot in the door because I knew one of the development officers who went to bat for me, but I had to really emphasize my related experience to get the job: outreach to the public, communication, organization, passion for the mission, and wanting to learn. I’m not sure what this role is that you’re applying for, but the most important things are probably communication and being willing to talk to anyone (this isn’t the role for shy people). Good luck!

  55. What Did You Get Done This Week?*

    I’ve been slammed the last few weeks, and I’m trying to get a handle on why I’ve been feeling so busy lately. I’d love to get a sense of what everyone else does or gets done during a week to level set whether I’m genuinely carrying a heavy load or just need to work on my stress management (or both!).

    For context, I work at a mid-sized nonprofit. My role is to manage a consulting practice within the organization (serving outside clients to generate revenue to support our programs), and serve as #2 on one of our programs. We do not have administrative support. Here’s what I did Monday – Thursday of his week:

    14.5 hours of meetings (I led 4 meetings; the rest I was a participant in)
    Wrote a response to a breach of contract letter from a consulting client
    Negotiated a contract with a consulting client
    Wrote one proposal for new potential consulting contract
    Held initial conversation with one potential consulting client, and then recruited a team to staff that project
    Developed agenda for a consulting client meeting next week
    Reviewed & edited final report for a consulting client
    Negotiated with internal HR re: hiring a new staff person
    Caught up on updating tracking system for consulting proposals and contracts
    Prepared status update presentation re: consulting practice financials
    Wrote & sent recruiting letter for the program I support
    Followed up with program applicants who left information out of their applications
    Updated program event information on event registration pages

    1. LCL*

      What strikes me about your list is that you are doing so many different types of jobs. You have been very busy! And they are different kinds of things, which requires you to change mental gears when you different tasks. That is always harder. There are certain administrative tasks that I only do when I can set aside a block of uninterrupted time to do them, because it takes too long to get into that headspace because it is so different from my other work. We are all taught when we are small children that we should work on unpleasant jobs a little bit each day so they aren’t overwhelming; that advice is flat out wrong if there is a lot of mental effort involved.

  56. stitchinthyme*

    Something that happened to me several years ago — how would you have handled it if you’d been me? How about if you’d been the company owner?

    (Note: I’m substituting “Pastafarian” here for a real, non-humorous religion that gets a fair amount of hate directed at it where I live. I don’t think the specific religion is actually relevant to the story.)

    I’m a software developer, and I was working at a very small company (fewer than 20 employees, one owner, and no HR department). We had one guy who really didn’t like anyone touching “his” code — I’ll call him M.

    So late one day, I discovered an issue with one of my applications, and I talked to my project lead (who was my peer in title, but in reality was the one who assigned us work and was responsible for keeping everything on track) about it. Since M was gone for the day, the project lead gave me the go-ahead to check for the same issue in M’s code and fix it if it was there. So I did; the issue was there and I made the fix, but knowing how touchy he was, I didn’t check my change into SVN (central source code control server), which means it was only in my personal directory and not accessible by anyone but me. I did, however, detail what I’d done in an email to M (with project lead CC’d) and told him he was welcome to look at my changes before committing them; I was clear that they were only in my development area and not checked in.

    M’s response to my email (sent to me only) was a single sentence to the effect that I obviously hated Pastafarians and I wouldn’t have touched his code if I didn’t. I was totally flabbergasted — I hadn’t even known he *was* a Pastafarian, given that I don’t go around questioning my coworkers about their religious beliefs. I forwarded his response without comment to my project lead, who was absolutely livid (at M, not me). He informed the company owner about what had happened and gave M a stern talking-to, but the company owner didn’t do or say anything, I never got an apology, and the matter was left there. I did ask the project lead and company owner not to assign me to any more projects with M in the future, though I did also say, “But I am aware that it’s a small company and this may not be avoidable, so if I have to be on a project with him, I will do my best to be professional about it.” (I was not assigned any projects with him for the remainder of my time there.)

    In retrospect, I think my project lead did the right thing; he didn’t have the authority to do anything more than talk to M, and he did that. I think the company owner should have talked to him as well, though, to impress on him the seriousness of the accusation he had made against me, not to mention the fact that these projects were a team effort — there is no “my” code or “your” code, only “our” code. It’s not a competition.

    1. Alice*

      Pastafarians can be jerks too.
      I think you and project lead both handled things well. Maybe project lead should have been managing M out, or advocating for the owner to manage M out — even before this specific incident, because of his MY MY MY CODE attitude? But then again, maybe the project lead was doing that — why would you know? Owner should have followed up with you I think.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      The owner dropped the ball.
      One thought to hold on to is that just because someone owns a business does not automatically mean that they understand how to manage people. But you are right, he should have stepped in. M’s remark was uncalled for and his expectation of no one touching his code was totally unrealistic. That should have been explained to him in very clear terms.

    3. nonegiven*

      Maybe it is a thing in some circles, possibly open source. My son told me about a time they needed a patch that had been committed and sent back to the dev for deficiencies, by a core developer on the project, and never recommitted. They bent over backwards trying to get ahold of the dev multiple times before they assigned it to my son to fix. Somehow it was a big deal to tinker with a patch started by someone else.

      1. stitchinthyme*

        I will admit that I’m not all that crazy about people touching my code, either. But I stifle the impulse to say anything because I know it’s NOT “my” code — it belongs to the company, and if a fix or improvement needs to be made and management decides that my time is needed elsewhere, then they’ll get someone else to do it. They do try to have the person who originally wrote it be the one to maintain it as much as possible, but sometimes that’s not feasible, so as a professional adult, you deal with it when it happens. (I *will* say that I get a bit irritated when people add code to mine and don’t use my preferred indentation style…and I’ve been known to “fix” that when I next work on it!)

        We have someone who’s similarly annoying about anyone touching “his” code at my current company (which is doubly irritating because he isn’t nearly so hesitant about taking over *other* people’s code), so I just avoid anything he has anything to do with. I guess there’s one of those at most places…

  57. Ruth (UK)*

    A couple weeks back I posted on here saying I was dealing with a colleague who constantly complains how much she hates the job, etc while seeming to assume I love the job, etc, but that I wasn’t really looking for a solution due to the fact I’m job hunting anyway…

    Here’s the update: I’ve been offered a job! It’s an admin role at a university, which I’m very excited about starting (in the first week of December)!

  58. NY Nonprofit*

    Welp. Pretty sure my org is going to announce a budget/hiring freeze today – in a company-wide meeting they called last minute yesterday, after just announcing last December that everything was great and that the freeze they had on before that was lifted and they’d be able to give raises again.

    From what I know, many of the funding sources we’re losing that led to this freeze were 100% predictable. Why didn’t we plan for that? Also, do you want to know much in our budget we keep as surplus? .006%. Yeah. (This stuff is just the tip of the iceberg, obviously.)

    Are all social service agencies this dysfunctional? :/

    1. Me Again*

      Yes. In my experience, yes. It is a truism that “Every social services agency in possession of a good grant or funding source must be in want of a way to use it poorly.”

      1. NY Nonprofit*

        On the one hand, I feel better that it’s not just me. But on the other hand, I feel worse, because I’m committed to this industry. :/

    2. NY Nonprofit*

      Just kidding. It’s not a freeze. It’s layoffs/cuts – they don’t know where yet, though! And in the meantime, there will still be promotions and hiring going on in other assorted areas… This is so fun.

    3. nonegiven*

      My state seems to me completely dysfunctional now. They passed a cigarette tax that was thrown out by the court so now social services are being cut, like all outpatient mental healthcare, for one, there will be no more. At the same time, suddenly I’m seeing at least one ad per episode on Hulu about making the state smoke free. Not sure who is paying for that.

  59. Desk Thief Reporter?*

    Harmless prank or step too far? Advice from all please!

    We have a new person in the office as an admin and she’s fairly immature. At first we thought maybe it was just quirks and normal anxiety but it’s been six weeks and she is still prone to freak outs, interrupting when we try to help, and not showing any real improvement from feedback.

    This is irksome, but I’m on my way out myself so the consequences won’t impact me. Yesterday she came over to do a general check in and admitted the other day she took a decoration from my desk to “freak me out” and see what I would do. Then realized it would be really weird so she put it back. I didn’t even notice it was gone and it was a worthless piece of décor so no real harm done.

    I’ve already given some feedback to her manager but is this worth informing also? I would frame it as simply passing along information with no attachment to an outcome, and while she did confess and no harm was done, she did take the step to actually take something from my desk just to get a reaction. With everything else I think that might be worth pushing up.

    Thoughts? Perspectives?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      It sounds like she’s having some issues with normal workplace socialization and that is probably worth mentioning to her manager.

    3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      That seems really weird. I don’t like office pranks, but especially not when you’ve only known someone for six weeks. I think I’d mention it to the manager.

    4. JulieBulie*

      Taking something (even if you put it back and admit to it) is crossing a line.

      More worrisome is that she was trying to “freak you out” to “see what you would do.” Screwing around with your coworkers’ heads or trying to provoke them is NOT okay workplace behavior.

      Since you’re on your way out, you won’t be the person who eventually writes in to AAM about your admin’s next, bigger shenanigan. But HR or her manager might appreciate a heads-up that she expressed an interest in trying to get a rise out of you when you and she don’t really have a practical-joker relationship.

    5. Yorick*

      I don’t think you need to mention it. She thought it would be funny and then realized it wasn’t. It’s probably not something that will come up again.

    6. Perse's Mom*

      I’d say something. This was an item YOU didn’t particularly care about, so you didn’t notice or react. I mean, it’s good she realized it was weird and put it back and also maybe? good that she confessed to doing it, but given the combination of behavior, I wonder if she was hoping to get a response by ‘fessing up that she didn’t get just by taking it. I would also wonder who she’d try this on next.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      It’s not coincidental that she freaks out and she also tries to freak others out.

      Yes, report it because it’s part of a larger story. And because it shows that she is not concentrating on learning her work.

      1. Marthooh*

        “Yes, report it because it’s part of a larger story.”

        Exactly. Even though it’s trivial in itself.

  60. Turkletina*

    We’re looking into changing our parental leave policy, which is pretty horrible (especially for parents who didn’t physically give birth). What are your parental leave benefits? Who gets them? Do you have to have a certain length of service to be eligible? Include your industry, too, because I’m curious about whether ours (tech) is an outlier.

    1. Uncivil Engineer*

      Industry: government. 12 weeks paid leave for both parents for the birth or adoption of a child. I believe all employees are eligible regardless of the length of service. This is a recent upgrade for us from our prior policy.

      1. Katie the Fed*

        Not the US federal government, right?

        Because we get not a single. goddamned. hour of parental leave.

          1. Katie the Fed*

            Yes, and I have to keep convincing people of it. My in-laws refused to believe me about it. NO REALLY. I’m not making this up.

    2. Meg*

      Higher ed. All biological and adoptive parents are eligible for 12 unpaid weeks. If you have a certain length of service (five years, I think?), six of those weeks are paid. It’s not a very generous policy, which is pretty surprising because the rest of our benefits are amazing.

      1. Turkletina*

        That’s a long length of service requirement! Do you know what happens if you’re a non-biological, non-adoptive parent? (Say you’re a woman whose female partner has given birth and you’re listed as a parent on the birth certificate but not biologically related to the child.)

    3. Emi.*

      I work for the feds, and all I get is FMLA (after a year). I can hoard sick and annual leave, or take it unpaid. My boss has said she’ll let mothers* take up to six months, but I personally doubt I’d be able to swing that much unpaid time.

      *I think also fathers, but she mentioned this apropos of a female colleague’s maternity leave, so I’m not sure.

      I don’t have kids yet, but my sister’s pregnant and she says it’s very useful if you’re allowed to take parental leave intermittently–her husband is going to take every Wednesday off for a long time, so she doesn’t have to do the whole week by herself.

      1. Turkletina*

        The intermittent thing is a great idea. And I don’t know anyone who could afford 6 months unpaid!

        1. Emi.*

          I guess maybe if your husband works too, especially if you pull other kids out of daycare for that time? I’m not sure–I didn’t ask for details because I was so new and I didn’t want to be all “thx for the job but how soon can I start disappearing intermittently to have babies?”

      2. Natalie*

        Oo, that intermittent thing is a good idea; I hadn’t thought of that. I believe you can do that with FMLA, too, so it should be available to anyone who’s otherwise FMLA eligible.

        1. Emi.*

          OPM says you *may* use FMLA intermittently if your supervisor lets you, but the law doesn’t require them to.

          1. Natalie*

            For childbirth/adoption, just to clarify – if it was intermittent for medical reasons it wouldn’t be subject to approval.

    4. JustaCPA*

      We’re a small high tech manufacturing company with international subsidiaries. Under 50 people locally in the US. We dont HAVE parental leave so people would have to use their vacation and/or sick time and/or short term disability.

      1. Turkletina*

        Ugh, relying on short-term disability means you’re out of luck if you haven’t actually given birth to the child.

    5. LadyKelvin*

      State Government/University. We get FMLA and have to use our time concurrently. We get to use 10 days of sick leave then as much vacation as we have, the rest unpaid. It only sucks because we get 21 days of sick leave and 21 days of vacation leave with unlimited rollover for sick leave so I have coworkers who have 6 months of paid sick leave banked (we also have flex time, so we don’t have to take a ton of time off for doctor’s appointments, etc) but when they needed FMLA they could only use 10 days of it and then had to exhaust their vacation (which is not unlimited rollover).

    6. Sabrina Spellman*

      Higher Ed. 6 weeks paid taken concurrently with FMLA. It is for both biological and adoptive parents, male or female, but only one part of the couple is permitted to take leave if both are employed by the University.

      1. Turkletina*

        Love your username! The part about only half of a couple being allowed leave when they both work for the university strikes me as really weird. Why punish people for working at the same institution?

    7. Someone else*

      I almost came here to ask if my company’s policy on this were weird, so this is timely!

      All full time employees who’ve been with the company at least one year are eligible for paid parental leave after birth or adoption. The amounts are a sliding scale that matches the amount of vacation that people get, which increases the longer you’re with the company. But the company requires you to use up your paid vacation and sick time before you can use paid parental leave. So basically, if you have 3 weeks paid vacation per year, you could take 7 weeks after your kid is born (if you had all your sick and vacation available at the time). If you’d already used up your vacation and sick at the time, you’d just have the 3 weeks. You can take, I think, up to six unpaid weeks after using up the paid.

    8. JayeRaye*

      Banking: all new parents with at least 1 year of service recieve 6 weeks at 100% pay. Additionally, birth mothers recieve an additional 10 weeks at 100% pay. This also applies to part time workers.

      My husband is in tech, and his company just released a family leave policy – of 6 weeks paid leave for all new parents. Hos company is trying to attract more women. I don’t think a measley 6 weeks is going to do much for them.

    9. Me Again*

      I’m self-employed, so nothing EXCEPT, my husband’s job, in tech, will pay me if my husband doesn’t take the 6 paid week he gets: example, he takes 3 weeks off with me and the kid and then his job pays me his salary for 3 weeks when he goes back to work. It isn’t a bad deal.

  61. Karo*

    I need advice on how to talk to a co-worker, Sansa. We were really close friends for years before I had something of an epiphany and realized how truly awful we were. We were horrible to co-workers, we’d get each other lathered up about how awful our job was, and we didn’t try to hide any of our feelings about our workplace. Like, I’m genuinely ashamed to think back on our behavior and I’m shocked we weren’t ever fired. We should’ve been.

    So, once I realized what I was doing, I made the conscious decision to change. I tried softly explaining to Sansa that we shouldn’t treat others like literal crap and that maybe we needed to work on our attitudes, but she didn’t get it or have any interest in changing so I withdrew from the friendship without further explanation. It was the only way that I could retain my sanity and force myself to come into work every day.

    We still work closely together, but I’ve been distant otherwise. We don’t hang out anymore, we don’t go to lunch except as part of a large group, we don’t chit chat, etc. I know that Sansa hates the new normal; she’s spoken to at least 2 mutual (work) friends about how she’s convinced I hate her or that she’s done something to hurt me and she wants to make it right. But the only way for her to make it “right” is to change her toxic behaviors, which she refuses to do (or maybe she just doesn’t realize how toxic she is?), and also she’s never said any of this to me.

    Now all of this is bleeding into our work. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells with any critiques (lest she take it as another point of proof that I hate her), and I’m really sick of her talking to everyone BUT me about it. But because she’s not talking to me about it, it’s hard to address it.

    So, two questions: One, how do I explain to her that we haven’t been friends for 2 years for good reason and it’s not likely to change, but that I want to have a good working relationship? And two, if anyone does provide me with a good script, how do I broach it with her? Like I said, she’s talking to everyone BUT me about this, so it’s not like I’ll have a natural opening.

    1. Liz2*

      Karma? This is what your coworkers were like before your epiphany. She isn’t interested in changing or seeing other side. She doesn’t want a positive outcome here. You can only accept that and be awesome on your own.

    2. Mongoose*

      I was Sansa several years ago and it took me around 8 months to figure out what was going on. My friend never said anything to me directly about it, but I really wish they had. If you’re up for it, I recommend a direct approach: invite her out for coffee; try to do it same day. Explain your how you came to your realization and how that’s changed your behavior. I wouldn’t spend a lot of time highlighting her behavior if she hasn’t been receptive to it in the past. Underscore that you don’t hate her and she didn’t do anything to hurt you, but that you just couldn’t keep up the relationship because it was based on negativity.
      Good luck.

    3. Anon attorney*

      If she isn’t going to create an opening, and you want to address this, then you will need to. Could you invite her out to lunch and say something along the lines of “I’ve heard that you’ve been speaking to other people about me and that you think you’ve upset me or offended me in some way. I’m sorry that I’ve given you that impression. I’ve really changed the way that I think about the job in the last year, and that’s the issue. I know that we used to spend a lot of time talking about how terrible it was, but I got to the point where I just couldn’t do that anymore because it was affecting everything about my work. When we talked about it I didn’t get the impression that you were on the same page as me about this, and I think that’s why we have kind of gone our separate ways a bit more in the last year or so. At the end of the day, I still really value my working relationship with you even if we have a different outlook on it all then we used to. It’s not personal, and it’s not true that I dislike you. Can we find a way to work together better from here on in and maybe have a fresh start?”

      I see this is someone who used to have a relationship like this with someone who was extremely bitter and dissatisfied at work. Things were a bit different for us, because she eventually quit, which was the best thing for her, but I sometimes found it quite uncomfortable to walk the line between our friendship and how I wanted to present myself at work (that is, not bitter and miserable). I still miss her though. These relationships can be quite intense in a weird way.

  62. Amber Rose*

    Yesterday I received further proof that my supervisor thinks i’m incompetent. She grumpily gave me back an invoice and told me it was incomplete and I did it wrong because it didn’t have coding. It didn’t need it. She didn’t even try to submit it (because when I tried, it went through just fine.) She just assumed I’m lazy and didn’t bother to do it right. I admit to doing the passive aggressive thing in response, but in my defense, I knew if I brought it back to her she’d just send me away to someone else to deal with it, so I cut the middleman.

    I’ve been here almost three years and I get exactly zero trust or respect from her because of things that went down ages ago that were really only partly my fault. I’m so tired of it.

    In a weird reversal from my experience in retail, it’s the customers that usually cheer me up. They call me, joke around, trust that I know what I’m talking about and generally are really awesome, even when I make mistakes. But it’s getting to be not enough. I want out and I can’t get out because I don’t have anywhere to go.

    The pumpkin slaughter this weekend will help at least.

    1. Someone else*

      Just curious, did it “not need it” in the sense that it was obvious and could be processed anyway, or didn’t need it because literally there is no code that applied and it was correct that it should be blank? If the latter, that was a jerk move on supervisor, but if the former, devil’s advocate, her point may have been she preferred it be complete, even if it’s possible to process it without, and just did a poor job communicating that her ‘tude was about process not outcome?

  63. cornflower blue*

    Yes, Company, it’s great that you support charitable fundraising. No, I do not want to bedazzle my bra for breast cancer.

    5. Emi.*

      How dare you refuse to participate in awkward activities that serve no purpose except probably to further trivialise and sexualize a life-threatening disease? Don’t you care?

    6. RVA Cat*

      I’m trying to imagine them doing something equally absurd to men’s underwear for cancer awareness….umm nope.

  64. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    Any advice on how to approach my grandboss about how his lack of approving stuff quickly is holding up teapot production and causing me to do three times the work, as well as stuff slipping through the cracks?

    My former grandboss was STELLAR at approving immediately. I have to ask three or four times, and it delays stuff by hours. And since everything here is on a deadline of vendor cut offs – this is time I can’t afford to lose.

    1. Graciosa*

      No certainty on the “right” answer here, but a few thoughts –

      Are you sure you are the one who needs to approach your grandboss? This feels like something about which I would consult my boss first. She may want to have the conversation (or advise you not to).

      Are your expectations realistic for any grandboss, or just the product of a previous stellar grandboss? When I see you saying that you’re asking three or four times because of a delay of hours, it seems a bit demanding. You may be accustomed to working this way, but the grandboss may not. Asking someone a couple levels above you to respond instantly – regardless of what else is on her calendar – seems risky.

      What is the business impact of the delay? If you’re going to have this conversation, it should be focused on the impact to the business – NOT you or the way you’re accustomed to working, but the business. Quantifying that may help you in your conversation with your boss (and your boss in any conversation with the grandboss).

      What else can be done to avoid placing the demand-to-respond-instantly on your grandboss? Can you start earlier? Reserve time with vendors? Change the approval system to give someone else more approval authority? Get blanket pre-approvals within parameters?

      Your chance of eliminating this frustration will be improved by thinking about how to make this easier for your grandboss rather than approaching it as an exercise in getting her to make your job easier.

      Good luck.

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        Yes. Per the company policy, it has to be the grandboss’ approval.

        If he doesn’t approve it, every single project we have (100+) will be hit with expedited fees. I can’t really give more details on how our business operates without giving away where I work.

        This has nothing to do with my start time. As soon as I’m sent a request, I send it to him. Everything that I’m sent has to be in the system by the vendor cut offs. This isn’t something I can get in front of due to how our processes are set up.

        Our corporate office will not allow blanket approvals.

      2. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        And I know not to focus on me, but bogging me down for an hour creates a bottleneck for the entire company. If it takes me two to three times as long to do one order, that gets unattainable when it’s multiplied 20-30x.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      How long has new grandboss been there? Are you sure they understand how the process is supposed to work? That’s where I would start. But I think you could also pull grandboss aside and say “I need you to respond within 24 hours when I submit the TPS reports so that I can process the order once you approve it. How do you want me to notify you that I’ve submitted something?”

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        I need it within an hour. This all is so insanely quick here. How we operate doesn’t fall under anything normal.

        We do everything through email, and he’s rarely in the office. Plus, it isn’t practical to send an email and walk into his office 30 times a day.

    3. Rick Tq*

      Is Grandboss’ approval pro-forma or does he pick and choose approvals? If his approval is monkey motion perhaps you can coordinate creating an email rule to auto-reply to a message from you with keywords in the subject with an approval message.

      The longer-term solution may be to find out why Grandboss has to be a gatekeeper and get approval authority delegated down closer to where it needs to be to maintain your pace and schedule.

  65. Fake old Converse shoes*

    I’ve been waiting all week for this.
    Busy season ended last week. On Monday I arrived at the client’s office to find it closed. Apparently someone decided to give the day free to everyone but, since we’re not employees, we were not informed. My boss was told as soon as soon as the office manager woke up, and I had to wait a couple of hours until security was cleared to let me in to fetch my laptop. However, that wasn’t all, because the following day I found out that all access keys for non employees were deactivated, including us. At first I thought we’ll have to work from my company’s office (yay!), but it turned out that a bunch of temps had their contract rescinded, and security was told to take the easy road. Meanwhile we have to request visitor access, which is not really annoying for us, but it’s a PITA for the front desk employees. Most of the office now is on holiday, and the rest sits all day doing nothing, chatting, playing music at max volume, basically acting like school kids without supervision. They even went to play soccer (no need to say we were not invited) leaving the office without coverage. Right now they’re doing karaoke and playing with the contents of the recycle bin.
    Sigh.

    1. Fake old Converse shoes*

      I talked with my boss and he would love to let us work from our offices, but the client’s higher ups don’t want to hear about it.
      Also, this is senior dev’s last day. We’re going to have some burgers at a nice place not so far away. That’s the only good thing that happened this week.

  66. Punkwich*

    Found out my contract can’t be renewed in January so I’m jobsearching (recent grad, research jobs) but I’m planning on going to grad school in September. How do I bring that up in interviews? Can I apply for full time work knowing I’ll be leaving? What is the etiquette?

    1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Apply as if you weren’t planning to go. You never know what might derail you or what opportunities you might run into. Unless of course you can get a research job that has a fixed term contract or is in or near where you want to go to grad school.

    2. TL -*

      For research jobs that’s really normal. They’ll mention if they want someone to stay for a specific length of time in the interview; don’t take a job that’s asked for a longer stay than you can give. Mention in the interview your grad school plans.

  67. Chloe Silverado*

    Business casual clothing question!

    I recently moved from the Miami, Florida area (where I lived for my entire teen and adult life) to a climate with WINTER! (It’s 30 degrees Fahrenheit outside right now, for context). My entire work wardrobe is made up of dresses, skirts, sleeveless shells and cardigans, much of which also look summery. To make matters worse, the building I work in is on the National Register of Historic Places and has poor heating, and the employee parking area is 2 blocks away. I realize this should be obvious, but since I’ve never needed anything other than a light jacket it’s hard to know where to begin when establishing a business casual wardrobe for winter!

    TL;DR: What are your winter business casual staples, bonus points for things that keep you extra warm?

    1. Liz2*

      I’m a pants person, never wear skirts or dresses at work. But the only difference for me is the fabric and thickness of my layers. I have shells and short sleeved tops for summer, boleros and light wraps for in between, and full blazers for colder. The weeks it’s just too cold to breathe I have some structured sweaters- with the shells underneath.

      Hot weather is linen, rayon, cotton, warm weather is cashmere, wool, velvet, knits.

    2. beanie beans*

      A nice sweater that I keep at work all the time that I can layer, and one of those microwave sock things that I can put in my lap or around my neck. Yes I look ridiculous half of the winter.

    3. Fishsticks*

      I’m originally from a warm climate and now living in a city with too much winter. I’ve lived in winter climates for going on 5 years, but this is the first year I need to be business casual for work so I’m in the same boat! (Just graduated, before in winters I could just go out in sweatpants).

      I’d definitely say look into leggings and maybe fleece lined leggings and tights. Get a long winter jacket (I’m currently searching for a long wool coat so I can walk to work without freezing.) Also look for deals on dress pants. They aren’t warm but you can throw on a pair of leggings and the pants over (literally how I survived 20 below days and I still has class.) Hit up thrift stores now for sweaters and long sleeve shirts since sweaters can cost a ton.

      1. KatieKate*

        Seconding fleece lined tights! On their own, under pants (seriously.)

        Also–a coat that goes past your legs. It’s a lifesaver in the deep of winter

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Northeasterner here! I stick to places like Banana Republic, Ann Taylor, and J. Crew for my business/business-casual wardrobe. I like their clothes in general and find that their sales are frequent and good. (The outlet equivalents of each are typically good, too.) No matter what I wear, I am always cold in the office. I keep a large wool blanket/scarf on the back of my chair and I end up wearing it almost every day.

    5. MuseumMusings*

      Cold-weather snow monster here! I love dresses and skirts and also live in a house where the ambient temperature is like…56 degrees F (gotta love those old 1860s farm houses!).

      I swear by WinterSilks, but any kind of silk long underwear worn under pants or leggings will keep you extra warm! If you’re looking for something more budget friendly, I’ve found that wearing fleece-lined tights or leggings helps keep you warmer. It might make sense to invest in a couple pairs of black pants, because let me tell you, it’s easier to brush snow off pants than tights if you fall into a snowbank. I would also recommend getting some long sweater dresses or warm cardigans. Check your local thrift store because you can often find some really good deals there!

      If you’re dedicated to dresses, it also might be a good idea to get some “travel pants” (as I call them) that you can pull up under your dresses and take off once you get in. I’d also keep a pair of work shoes under your desk once it starts getting snowy, so you can change out of your clunky, winter (and waterproof!!) boots.

      For inside the office, get a large shawl that looks neutral. You can wrap it around your shoulders or legs if you get cold sitting at your desk and no one should look askance at you. It might also help to ask some of your coworkers what works best for keeping warm in the office.

      Also, this has nothing to do with business clothing, but if you haven’t already, you could create an “emergency pack” in your car with an overnight bag (in case the roads close down due to snow and you have to stay somewhere not your home) as well as a small snow shovel, an ice scraper, some non-perishable snacks, and some hand warmers in case your car slides off the road and you have to sit in it a while (make sure that your tailpipe isn’t blocked off, if this is the case, otherwise you could get CO2 poisoning). *Caveat: I travel 45 minutes one way from the country to my job, so I’m always thinking of the worst case situation.

      Good luck!

    6. Cordelia Vorkosigan*

      I also love dresses because they’re nice and cool in the summer. In winter, I usually wear them with thick tights, a warm, cozy cardigan, and boots. I also keep a mini-heater under my desk I can warm up with, if needed!

    7. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Those fleece-lined tights are amazing. I have found them in other colors besides black, and they make a big difference under pants, too.

      1. Artemesia*

        For under pants I like silk long johns; they don’t get hot and sweaty but they add that extra layer of warmth without bulk.

    8. blackcat*

      Fleece-lined leggings & tights are a staple with skirts & dresses for me. I wear short-sleeved dresses all winter with thick cardigans and fleece-lined leggings in New England. It helps me have a smaller wardrobe overall.

      Also, boots. Boots are warm. Warm feet = warmer entire body.

    9. Former freelancer*

      I started my first office job (in a historical building with poor heating) after literally decades of working from home in winter last year, and I got through five months by mixing and matching basically four blazers (grey, beige, black with a white pinstripe and navy) and four pairs of warm slacks (grey, burgundy, black and navy). Blazers may not be necessary for business casual where you are, but they add an extra layer of warmth if you’re sitting all day. I would wear non-bulky wool sweaters underneath them and shirts underneath those. Since I bought the slacks 15+ years ago, the legs are loose enough that I can wear tights underneath when it gets really cold. I also took a friend’s advice to keep “office shoes” at work (navy and black low-heel pumps), so I could just wear boots on the way to work on public transport, and change into pumps at the office. Also – and this I learned from my colleagues – I keep a couple of warm, colorful shawls at the office, to drape around my shoulders for extra warmth and/or a splash of color.

    10. Emi.*

      Tangentially related: Winter coats! The better your coat is, the less you have to worry about warm clothes (up to a point obviously). Long coats really do keep you warmer than ones that just come down to your waist/hips! My current coat is not warm enough, so I layer two sweaters underneath, and it’s such a pain. It gives me three zippers to deal with, so it’s harder to shuck off quickly and I always get sweaty between walking inside and finally unloading all my outerwear, and my arms feel very bunchy. Lands’ End and LL Bean have good coats, and constant sales.

    11. anathema*

      Fleece tights that end in socks. They hold up being worn with boots, are much warmer than regular tights, fit under pants as well as skirts, and they are much more opaque than regular tights.

    12. Gwen*

      Fleece-lined leggings/tights, sweater dresses, big cardigans, scarves (blanket scarves are really big these days, that should help you toasty warm!), boots, lots of things for layering

    13. Thursday Next*

      I wear skirts year round. In the winter I have some heavier wool skirts and I wear footless fleece lined tights. I wear footless tights because in the winter I wear boots >90% of the time so I can keep my feet warm with my socks of choice and my legs warm with the tights + boots + warm skirt combo.
      In addition to having a ‘real’ winter scarf (i.e. very warm wool/cashmere) I also have more fashionable, lighter weight scarves that I wear indoors. The do help me keep warm.
      You could also wear an extra pair of tights or thermal running leggings to work and then quickly take them off in the bathroom when you arrive.

    14. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Those poofy down vests are also good to wear under blazers or jackets if you are cold in the office. Might look a little “edgy” to layer them up but they probably wouldn’t show much, especially if they are unzipped and the collar folded down under your jacket. I’ve seen inexpensive packable versions which are very thin all over the place.

    15. Dear liza dear liza*

      Infinity scarves, or other scarves you wear inside. Alternatively, turtle necks. And when it’s very cold, turtle neck + scarf. They make a huge difference in my drafty office.

  68. Snark*

    So on Monday I had my annual performance review and negotiated (read: politely asked for and promptly got) a (small) raise, a bonus, and 40 more hours of vacation time per year.

    *happy dance*

    *shakes it*

  69. Database Geek*

    I forgot I wanted to ask another question about Glass Door reviews… (from the previous post about red flags it seems to be something people wished they had paid attention too). I interviewed with a place that has mixed reviews and some indicate there is some issues with departments reorganizing more than once by upper management…. also everyone I interviewed with at the department I would be working for has been there less than a year. Should I be worried enough to run away from this job now?

    1. beanie beans*

      I don’t know that I’d necessarily run away, but maybe ask about it if you have a chance for follow up questions.

      “I’ve gotten the impression that there’s been a lot of reorganizing and turnover in the company recently and was just wondering if you could talk more about the reasons for that.” Or something more eloquent lol.

    2. SCtoDC*

      Ha! It sounds like you’re interviewing at my company. We have semi-frequent re-orgs and decent turnover, but it’s never been a problem for me. If you’re good at just rolling with things and understanding that it will all settle down eventually, you’ll be fine. If you thrive off of routine and structure and you don’t love change, it will be a challenge.

      1. Database Geek*

        My main concern would be that if they decide to reorganize the department again I’ll find myself out of a job again way too soon, other than that I can handle a little chaos.

        1. SCtoDC*

          totally understandable. All of the re-orgs at my place have simply been an overhaul of reporting structures, not an elimination of people or departments, so luckily no one has been forced out because of a re-org.

    3. Dotty*

      It depends – glass doors much like any review site is going to be mixed, people with negative views will be more likely to write in than those who found a company fine or even great to work for. I work at a company which re-structures every few years (seriously!) and has departments with an average tenure of 12-18 months – personally I love it (I’ve been there 10 years). For me the restructuring has always been about improving and growing the company – if a department isn’t working well, the CEO fixes it (sometimes that’s moving personnel, a few times it’s been merging or splitting up departments). Do some people dislike that? Sure but sometimes it’s simply the change they dislike – I’d far rather a company that can change and addresss problems than one that sticks rigidly to doing what it’s always done. Plus in the time I’ve been there I’ve yet to see a restructure that hasn’t worked out for the best, something that my colleagues have also agreed on. That said, is there anyway you can reach out to former employees? Or find out anything about them? If they’re early in their careers short stays may carry a bit less weight. I’m also a big believer in trusting your gut – if it’s telling you to run, then there’s probably something of valid concern there

      1. Database Geek*

        Yeah I figured there was some of that too – the most unhappy people are the ones most likely to leave a negative review. Similar for the positive ones. I’m mostly concerned about how long I would end up being there if I got offered a job – what if something happens and they reorganize my job out from under me within a year? In my case I’m not sure about trusting my gut – I’m far to anxious about it to do that….

  70. Christiana*

    Need concrete advice on this please…. I was freelancing for a financial advising firm through a recruiting agency. Usually I put in my timesheet to the recruiter and get paid through them. I filled out a W4, they take my taxes out for me. I recently got a full-time job but I’m trying to keep this freelance client. Recently they asked me to start writing bios for their financial advisors. The thing is, their advisors are not employed by the firm; they just have a symbiotic agreement. Previously, the firm would charnge an advisor to write their bio. They also sell the advisor swag with their name on it, different services like that. Now, they want me to go outside my agency and bill the advisors directly to write their bios. The firm wants to avoid paying my recruiting agency the fees on top of my hourly rate since the work would be done for the advisor, not their firm. The recruiting agency would get PISSED at me if i did this right? i don’t want to lose that relationship, as they’re a very well-connected agency who can get me jobs in the future.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Typically, recruiters/staffing agencies have a contract with the *client*, not the employee. That being said, if you want to maintain a good working relationship with the agency, you could ask them what the best way to handle this situation.

      1. Natalie*

        It’s true that the main contract is between the staffing firm and the company, but as a candidate/temp I’ve signed acknowledgements that I won’t moonlight for clients. It wouldn’t be a breach of contract in a legal sense, but the staffing firm may very well drop you as an employee.

        1. Christiana*

          Thank you for your replies. I posted 2 weeks ago in the open thread; starting a new job where i’m onsite at the client 4 days a week and I’m at my agency one day a week. getting so confused because i’m supposed to do 40 hours of work for the client a week, but then i’m invited to agency team-building activities. or as a new hire i’m invited to a lunch with the CEO and another with the CTO and then a finance 101 meeting to learn how the agency makes money. these meetings and lunches are not on the days i’m working out of the agency office. i feel like i have to choose between doing agency activities and putting in extra hours for the client. my coworker just bills 8 hours a day no matter what and doesn’t work extra, she told me. but i feel like that’s a lie.

          1. Natalie*

            I strongly urge you to check in with your agency on what their expectations are. Ultimately, they’re your employers and they’re your go-betweens with the client, so if they tell you not to come to meetings on your off day you really should listen to them.

  71. Girl, interrupted*

    My boss has an awful habit of interrupting people when they talk. If you are talking and he decides he needs to say something, he will just start talking over you and will not stop until you stop talking and just listen. It is incredibly frustrating because sometimes he asks me a question on how to do X and while I am trying to explain he interrupts me and I lose my train of thought. It is not singled out to the employees either. He regularly has phone conversations on speaker phone and I cringe for the person on the other end. Is there a nice way to tell him “please don’t interrupt me”? He is also very sensitive and does not handle criticism well. In a moment of frustration I said one time “please let me finish talking” and he did not seem to take that well.

    1. JustaCPA*

      not really. He’s your boss. He’s shown that he doesnt handle being asked to stop well so… yeah.

    2. Sargjo*

      My mother is this way, and worse she herself is super sensitive to interruption and yells LET ME FINISH if you try interject after long long verbal monologues. I deal with her in two ways-1) I move all important or sensitive conversations to text or email 2) I assume that any verbal interaction we have is, in fact, not a conversation but a lecture even if I initiated the conversation in which case I strongly interrogated myself about method and usually circle back to 1) 3) I assume she has an undiagnosed mental illness that is not my problem and 4) when she does this crap to other people I don’t make apologies for her but I also don’t waste emotional labor on it. “Yes Boss/Mom has a terrible habit. Yep, terrible. Moving on.” You cannot fix this about your boss. Full stop.

  72. JustaTech*

    Does anyone else ever get a sudden feeling of claustrophobia when you’re doing something really repetitive on the computer (like “find-replace” 30 times in a spreadsheet)?
    Or is it just me that will go copy-paste 50 times and then realize I’m holding my breath?

    Is there a word for this?

    (I’m not worried about it, it always goes away as soon as I stop, and I can always take a 5 minute break if I want too.)

    1. Footiepjs*

      My sister and I can get a little anxious or even panicky when doing things like that. My brother-in-law thinks we’re really weird and has no idea what we’re talking about. But it’s so good to realize we’re not the only ones!

      1. Footiepjs*

        Furthermore, I tried googling it once but I couldn’t find the right search terms to come up with anything meaningful.

    2. yay for friday*

      I get that way when i’m almost done with doing a bunch of copy-paste or other similar repetitive stuff. I’ve just assumed it’s a low level anxiety issue.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      I get that sometimes too. I also find after endless repetition of the same keystrokes, suddenly my fingers go out of sync and then I have to take a break because I lost the pattern. It’s similar to when you read a word multiple times and suddenly the word looks super weird and wrong. Other than “frustrating” I don’t know if there’s a word for it.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      It almost sounds like being mesmerized. My suggestion is to look up and look around the room.
      If you are holding your breath and not aware, yeah, that will add to the sensation. Breathe in through your nose and out through a small opening of your mouth. Perhaps you need water or bathroom breaks when doing long repetitive tasks.

  73. PMC*

    I recently accepted a job that requires a relocation across the country. The start date is in three weeks and I accepted the offer last week. Should I send them an update email at some point to inform them that I’ve found housing, set a moving date, started shipping boxes, and reiterate that I’m excited to start? A part of me thinks that they would be glad to know that things are going smoothly and I am on-track to make my current start date, another part of me thinks that this is overkill and will not make a good impression.

      1. PMC*

        I could use some advice as to how you stayed sane during your cross-country relocation! I’m very excited about this job, but this move is a little more stressful than I thought it would be…

        1. Snark*

          Beer helped me when I relocated on similar notice last year. I dunno, it just sucks and it’s stressful. My recommendations are as follows:

          – Keep a very detailed master list.
          – Supervise whomever is packing your moving truck. I had some really nice bar stools get completely screwed up.
          – ABF U-Pack is a fantastic alternative to U-haul and I heartily recommend it. They drop off a shorty freight trailer in front of your house, you pack it up, they drive it to your destination, and you make your own way there, driving your own car rather than a giant, poorly maintained truck.
          – Leave yourself a full day at your new location to find a coffee shop, take a walk, and chill before starting the new job.
          – Get your new boss to pre-approve a few unpaid days off in the first couple weeks, because you will need to dash out to meet trucks, cable guys, and so on at odd times.

        2. I'm A Little TeaPot*

          The first time, I was young and dumb. And had no stuff.

          The second time, I aggressively decluttered. I ended up getting rid of at least 50% overall, probably more. It’s expensive to move stuff cross country, so it frequently works out that it’s cheaper to buy a new one after the move, especially for furniture. It was stressful yes, but keeping organized helped.

          1. JN*

            I did a version of Lent early this year, where what I “gave up” for the 40 days was 40 bags/boxes of stuff. Was job hunting and knew moving was possible, so was trying to get rid of stuff (even if it was as simple as bags of shredded papers) in preparation. I have a new job I’m starting soon and am looking to move within my metro to be closer (I don’t want an hour’s commute each way). I’m finding I was extremely lucky with the amount of storage space that my current apartment has, as none of the places I’ve looked at so far in my price range have as much space, or even any at all (and those that did have storage have it accessed from outside the unit–on the patio or balcony–rather than a room inside the apartment like I have now. May have to look at letting pieces of furniture go to make things work.

          2. PMC*

            You’re right, I think I’m going to have to do a major purge this weekend. It was the same for me- when I first moved I think I had only a bike and a suitcase of clothes to my name. Moving was so much simpler then!

    4. periwinkle*

      It wouldn’t hurt to let HR and/or your hiring manager know in a brief email that the move is on track and to give them your new address (definitely get that to HR when you can). You don’t need to get into details, though. Save your energy for executing those details!

      I’m thankful to have had about six weeks to make the move because yeah, there’s a lot to do. Finding a rental on the other side of the country is challenging enough; finding one which would take 4 cats was a nail-biter but I managed. Seconding the concept of decluttering – we got rid of a lot of stuff that we had kept for no apparent reason, yikes. The less you have to pack and drag across country (or pay someone else to transport), the happier you’ll be.

      1. PMC*

        Wow! I’m glad that I don’t have any pets- as much as I would love one, its making this move a lot easier. Glad you made it work!

      2. Product person*

        I agree with keeping the email brief and very high level. Frankly, an email detailing how you’ve found housing, set a moving date, started shipping boxes, etc. would be too much information I don’t care about. If you have an address to share, great, but nobody needs a play by play about your to-do list.

        And congratulations on the new job!

  74. beanie beans*

    I had a phone interview today that went well, and I got to put some recent AAM advice to the test.

    The interviewer asked the dreaded “expected salary range” question that always freaks me out, and I used Alison and the AAM’s commenters’ suggestion of gracefully asking if the position already had a budgeted range for the position AND SHE TOLD ME THE RANGE and it wasn’t awkward and nobody died.

      1. beanie beans*

        I think I worded it something like “Well, I have some flexibility in my range and there are a lot of other variables like benefits that might be a larger factor than the salary. If it’s ok to ask, do you know if the position already has a budgeted range?”

        She didn’t blink an eye and gave me a pretty wide range and explained why it’s such a large range and how they usually narrow it down to an offer when it gets to that point. I was a little surprised but happy it went so smoothly!

  75. Jayden*

    So I’m in a bit of an awkward situation with salary. I’m interviewing for this position and am confident I’ll be invited to the final round. The posted range was wide – let’s say 45 to 77. I was looking for something at 67. Today, the hiring manager emailed me saying they wanted to follow up with some info about salary. They then went to point me to the posted range, saying that the salary will fall close to the midpoint of that range. The mid point, in this example, would be 61.

    I feel I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, I appreciate this information, and if they weren’t going to invite me to the last round, why would they have written to share this? But at the same time, it comes across as a preemptive negotiating tactic from them – almost like a bait and switch. Is 67, the number I want, “close to the midpoint”? How should I respond, if at all, without sounding presumptive?

    Help, please!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      If someone posts a range, especially one that wide, you have to accept that the offer may be lower than what you’re looking for. It’s not a bait and switch since the offer is within the posted range.

      1. Jayden*

        Agreed. So I take back the bait and switch part.

        Let’s talk about where we are – me needing 67 and them writing this email saying ‘close to the midpoint’. Should I ace the final interview, get an actual offer, and then be like – I’m looking for 67? Or is 67, in this wide range, not “close to the midpoint” and would appear dishonest on my part to spring?

        1. Graciosa*

          Depending upon how clear I thought I had been, I am likely to be annoyed as a hiring manager. We do have people who – after we communicate the starting salary very clearly – suddenly ask for significantly more at the end of the hiring process. This is annoying, and it makes us feel like the candidate is the one pulling the bait-and-switch and wasting our time.

          If you have objective credentials that merit the higher salary, you should say so (although it should already be apparent, so let me reframe that to you should communicate your salary expectations as a result of those credentials). I would also be annoyed by the idea that I am likely to offer a higher salary for purely subjective reasons (You get more money because I just really liked your shoes?) so it needs to be objective and based on your market value.

          In this case, the employer is communicating clearly about salary up front – which is something candidates generally want! Hiding your own position in response seems like responding to that candor with something else.

    2. Sualah*

      In my company, $67k would not be considered close to the midpoint. Maybe $63k or $64k, but even that would be pushing it. It seems like the lowest offer will be around $61k. If that is just not acceptable, then you might want to bow out now. If it is, then I would just send an email back saying you appreciate the information and you’re looking forward to hearing from them about final interviews. Then, if you get an offer, you can negotiate. I don’t think you’re getting $67k at this job, though, and you would want to be able to accept $61k in the end.

      I don’t think you’d want to get into negotiations now, when you don’t have an offer. But I also don’t see how it would be considered bad faith to negotiate after the offer is received since they said it would “fall close” to the midpoint, and to me, that would suggest there is some room there. If they offer $61k, you counter with $65k, and they come back $62,500, that would seem like a fair negotiation to me.

      1. Jayden*

        Thank you for replying Sualah. From what you’re saying, it seems to me that I need to be OK with 65, not 61, right? Because in the scenario you described, you thought 65 is still “close to the midpoint” such that I don’t need to respond to the email I have currently.

        What you’re saying is – based on the email I have, if I’m OK with 65, no need to respond. If I absolutely need 67, respond. Am I reading you wrong?

        1. Sualah*

          Oh, no, I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. I would respond either way, just to let them know you got the information. But I also think you need to decide if you are ok with $61,000. I think that will be around what they will offer and, based on the range and the follow up email, I would take midpoint as about the final number they’re looking to hire at. It might happen that they initially offer $61k and you ask for more and they come back and say, “No, $61k is our max at this time, as we said, it was going to be at the midpoint.” (Even though they didn’t say that exactly.)

          If they give you an offer of, maybe $55k, then I think you can say, “Well, based on our earlier emails, I was expecting closer to the midpoint” and try to get to the low $60,000s. But, just like $67k is too high for “close to the midpoint,” something in the $50,000s would be too low to be “close to the midpoint” as well.

          1. Jayden*

            Hmm. Let me try to make this even simpler. The lowest I’m OK with is 64, not 61. What would you recommend my response should be?

    3. Graciosa*

      If you’re not interested in taking the job at the midpoint, you might as well say so.

      I may be assuming other companies work like ours do, but we have salary levels at which we hire in (usually a bit under the midpoint of the range, as the midpoint is generally what is achieved after some years of experience in the specific role at our company). We also maintain a fair amount of consistency to ensure that we don’t have salary disparities based on who negotiated with whom.

      Someone coming in and wanting to be hired at the upper end of the range is going to need STELLAR credentials. We don’t post the position range as the result of any malicious bait-and-switch intent, but because most people want to know the range for the role and how much room they might have to advance in position. Hiring into a role and not being able to give any raises – regardless of performance – is not helpful in motivating an employee.

      Sharing the anticipated hiring salary is also normal and (from our perspective) good business practice. This isn’t bait and switch if the company is messaging to your upfront so you won’t have unrealistic expectations.

      As far as messaging, it depends a bit on your situation. If you just looked at the range and – as most people do – decided you should be at the upper end of it, you should think seriously about whether this reflects your market value rather than your aspirations or ego. That isn’t meant to be a nasty remark – most people do think they belong in the upper end of the range (just like almost everyone thinks they are a better-than-average driver although this is statistically impossible). The real test is to do the research and make sure you know your actual market value.

      If you really are valued by the market at something close to the top of the range (please remember this is measuring the market value of a package of skills and experience and NOT your worth as a human being!), then I would say something. Maybe, “Thank you very much for sharing your expectations on the salary range for this role. Because of [my significant experience as a specialist in X / whatever], I’m currently looking for positions [at the $X level / paying in the $Y-Z range depending upon the complete compensation package]. Do you think it makes sense for us to keep talking? I don’t want to do you the disservice of continuing to take up your time if our mutual expectations for compensation are not likely to be a good fit.”

      But the risk here is that the answer you get is “Thanks, but no thanks.” You need to be prepared for that and happy with that outcome.

      1. Jayden*

        Thank you for that detailed response, Graciosa. Would you agree with the conclusion I drew in my last comment – no need to respond if I’m OK with 65 (or should that be 64), but if I absolutely need 67, the email merits a response?

        In other words, what is the reasonable upper limit of understanding “close to the midpoint” in a salary range of 45-77 with a midpoint of 61?

        1. Graciosa*

          I’m a little concerned about your constant reiteration that you “need” 67. I’m not sure what that means – did you do a budget and determine that your spending requires that as a salary, or is that your objective value on the market? As harsh as it may sound, the first is irrelevant to any salary discussion. You need to reframe your discussion – and even your thought around this issue – to focus only on market value.

          If you mean that your market value is 67 – or even that you’re not willing to take the job for anything less than 67 for whatever reasons of your own – then yes, I do think you need to communicate that.

          You’re talking about demanding a salary that would represent an almost 20% movement within the range (6K / 32K). That’s a significant bump. Even if we consider it as a 6K bump over 61k, that’s still an almost 10% increase (which would be in line for a normal promotion in my company or an unusually healthy raise).

          So yes, message it.

          1. Jayden*

            Actually, I didn’t mean to say I need 67. That’s the number I’d like, sure. The number I do need is 64 – 3k over the midpoint. So, to keep it real simple, does 64 warrant a response?

            Now for your deeper point about market value. Maybe I haven’t hit the right buttons, but I don’t see a resource where there is a perfect way to measure that – just approximate ranges. I know my education, experience and skills, obviously, but I can’t pin it perfectly to one number and any of the numbers we’re discussing could work based on location and company resources. The position title is one custom to this entity so it’s not that easy to compare either. If you’d like I can give you more specific info in case I’m missing some obvious way to calculate my market value.

        2. TC*

          Respond either way, just to let them know you received the info. If you’re truly willing to accept 64 or 65, clarify that your ideal salary would be 64 minimum and ask if that is what they have in mind when they say “middle of the range”. Its possible that this will be the case, or that that 64-65 is negotiable. If you absolutely can’t go below 67 and that’s a deal breaker then you need to tell them that, if anything because they might be able to reach that figure if you are truly qualified, but also because you don’t want to mislead them into thinking you are still interested if they can’t.

          They are being super upfront right now, and I would guess that this is probably because they only want to invite candidates to the final round if they are truly interested and willing to accept an offer if given one. Don’t waste your time or theirs if the salary isn’t right.

          1. Jayden*

            Yes, I am comfortable accepting 64 or 65. Everyone who has responded seems to believe that “close to the midpoint” of 61 extends to 64. So can’t I just write a response acknowledging that I received it and look forward to hearing more about the next round. I feel a little queasy saying my minimum is 64 when it sounds like everyone is in agreement that they implied 58-64… so can’t I just state 64 if I have an offer? My worry is turning them off by saying I need 64 now, which may make other candidates seem more desirable.

            1. TC*

              There is no harm in being absolutely certain! I’ve found that most places I’ve interviewed with appreciate honesty and open communication.

              Is 64 the lowest you are willing to go? If you are willing to go a little lower, then I would just say thanks and see how it goes. If you can’t go lower, and they are turned off by you asking for 64, then they weren’t a good fit anyways. That’s the salary you need, and there is no point in trying to get in with a company who has made it clear they can’t provide that for you. And if they are turned off at this point by 64, that wont change based on your interviews in the final round- they will probably still turn you away at the offer stage.

              I hope it all works out and you are able to get the salary that you want!

            2. Artemesia*

              How about, ‘thanks for getting back to me. I would expect with my experience to start a bit above the midpoint of the range and hope to talk with you further’ or something like that.

              1. Jayden*

                You said in your earlier comment that you don’t think 67 is far off from the midpoint, right? If that’s the case, why even bother complicating things now and just let it play out and get an offer first…

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      They are trying to let you know what they can offer. This is actually wonderfully honest of them. If you know you would never take 61, than you could bow out, but if you think there’s a chance you might take 63 or 64, than I might keep going. You don’t have an offer yet and you can’t start negotiating now.

      But if you really would never accept the mid point of the range say, 58 to 64 than I would seriously consider if you want to continue.

    5. Yorick*

      I wouldn’t worry too much until the offer. You still need to learn more about the position (benefits, etc.) to know if you would be willing to work there at a certain salary.

      Also, I think it would be weird to be negotiating at this point.

      1. Jayden*

        So you think if I wait till I get an offer, it wouldn’t be shocking to say I’m expecting 64, since it’s close enough to the midpoint, right?

      2. Alice*

        My opinion — and keep in mind that’s it’s less informed than Graciosa’s — it would be nice to mirror their openness. They’ve told you their budget — “middle of the range.” If 64 is the number below which you definitely won’t take the job, maybe say that now — not as an ultimatum, but along the lines of “thanks for sharing this info about your range. I’m really excited about the opportunity. Based on my skills and experience, I’m looking for a salary of at least 64, possibly higher depending on the details of the role and benefits. That’s in the middle of the posted range, so let’s move forward.”
        The risk is, they say, wow, 64+ doesn’t work for us, goodbye. But is that a bad outcome? If they have a hard ceiling of 61, you and they are never going to get to a happy compromise — might as well find out now and save everyone time.

  76. Edgar Allan Bro*

    I’d love to hear all your thoughts. Do you think its’ okay to dress a little bit nicer than company culture just because I like feeling more professional at work? I’ve gotten some comments, not meanspirited, but still comments about how I always am so dressed up, and it’s true, I tend to wear black jeans and a blazer, or black jeans and a nice blousy button up. or sometimes a fitted businessy jumpsuit. Everyone else wears a T-shirt and jeans or yoga pants. I personally like being a little more dressed up, I have a separate section of my closet for work clothes, and it makes me feel more professional and I’ve always thought it made me look a little bit older, put together, and in charge if I’m dressed nicely, at least it makes me feel that way. And I like I don’t have to think about my clothes if I’m not constantly trying to figure out of my personal clothes are appropriate for work (as a curvy woman, that’s just a nightmare). But, if people are noticing to the point of asking me why I’m always looking so “nice” does it look like I’m out of touch? Or am I just overthinking it?

    1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      I’d think that if you’re getting comments, you might be a little too much. Who are the comments from? If it’s just one or 2 grumps, ok. But multiple people, or people above you, I’d pay more attention to that. Also, maybe ask someone you respect there.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      I tend to dress more formally than my colleagues, but no one has ever commented. I do it for the same reasons you do. I would find someone to respect and trust to ask about it. Chances are that it is no big deal, but you may also look at see how people far above you dress. I would say I dress more formally than some of my colleagues, but not as formally as the Dean.

      So, you may want to try to observe where your clothing fits into the scheme of things.

    3. Red Reader*

      a “fitted businessy jumpsuit”? I’m bad with mental images, but I’m having a really hard time putting these words together.

        1. Emi.*

          Oh em gee, I love this. It would be really strange in my office, but I might buy something like this for dates. Maybe I could wear it to church? I will find an occasion.

    4. Green Buttons*

      Same situation here. It almost felt like a bad thing to be a little more polished. I feel good and comfortable with the way that I dress though, so I stuck with it. I think they’ll eventually get the idea that it’s just your style and you’re being you.

      I also tended to diffuse with humour. “Oh you know me…can’t work without a blazer!” or “Yes, thank you, I know I look amazing”.

    5. JulieBulie*

      If you were coming to work in an evening gown, I’d say there was an issue. But you’re not.

      Every company has a best-dressed employee. Apparently, at your company, that person is you. No big deal. If you were to dress down, it would be someone else… but since you already have the wardrobe, why bother?

      Who knows – perhaps someone else will come along and knock you into second place anyway.

    6. Emi.*

      I think if people are commenting on it, that means you are overdressed, but it’s hard to say how much that matters without knowing your office (and who’s commenting–your peers? your boss? the UPS guy?).

      But if you want to tone it down, what about shooting for more “laid-back formal” instead of just “less formal”? Like, wear blazers in more casual fabrics, or wear your button-downs (or your blazers) with the sleeves rolled up. You look less ~*~fancy~*~, but in my experience it still provides that put-together/in-charge feeling.

    7. Synonymous*

      I say overthinking. I used to work at a place with a more professional dress code. Now I work at a more casual place. I sometimes wear blazers with jeans. I get comments, but I just explain blazers are warmer than cardigans, or my blazers looked lonely (most people know I came from a more professional environment). Some of my co-workers started calling them power suits. As a younger woman in a male dominated profession, I was totally ok with that.

    8. Em*

      I do this too. I wear nice trousers and silk blouses and leather flats, or a sheath dress and cardigan, while much of my office is in slouchy jeans, old sneakers, and tee shirts. At first I was sensitive about it, but then I realized—well, my bosses (all women, for the record) all dress this way themselves. So I figure, if you’re not more formal than your bosses, that’s probably all right.

    9. Elizabeth West*

      Maybe bounce it off someone, but honestly, I don’t think the outfit you posted or the fashion in general is that big a deal. As long as your butt isn’t hanging out and you’re not dressed like David S. Pumpkins, nobody should care.

    10. Natalie*

      Just curious, how long have you worked there? I’ve had a couple of coworkers who were generally more into fashion and always well dressed. People probably commented when they were new, but by the time I knew them it was a known thing – Jane and John really like fashion, hey, what a neat look.

      Also, it’s not clear to me what you’re saying when people ask but I would just go with “I like fashion” in a casual way, rather than saying anything about feeling more professional or older or whatever. The latter could unintentionally sound like a dig on your co-workers.

    11. nonegiven*

      I think I’d just take it as a complement and thank them. If you’re still wearing jeans it doesn’t sound like it’s really that far off.

  77. Swan Dive*

    Any networking advice?

    I’d like to start talking to people at companies I’d like to work for. I’m not looking to make an immediate move, so what I’d hope to get out of the conversation would be mostly a sense of what I could do over the next 1-2 years to make myself more competitive for those types of roles. I’d be cold-emailing at least some of these people– any tips?

    And for people who work in fields where some networking is expected but not really a work task, what if anything do you say to your boss when you step out for a call/coffee? Just a general “I’m taking my lunch break now, I’ll be back” (even if it’s not lunchtime)?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      So, whenever I cold email, I start by assuming 30 or 40% of folks won’t get back to me. Than I write an email that is as nice a possible and also very open with what I want. So, in your case, I might write, “I’m fairly new to this field and I was hoping to see if you would be available to meet for coffee and speak to me about how you got to where you are in your position. The sorts of questions I have are (whatever your questions are).”

      If you are exempt, than I would just say you have an appointment. Put it on the calendar and go.

      1. Swan Dive*

        Thank you! I am indeed fairly new– my plan was something along the lines of “I saw your work in X, which looks really cool / is exactly what I’d love to get into someday. My background is Y– so I’ve laid the foundation, but I’d love to hear about how you got to where you are, and any advice you might have to give. Would you have time for coffee /a call?”

        Does that sound like it’s missing bits? I feel like there must be some way too make it more compelling.

        1. AnotherLibrarian*

          That looks fine to me. If they agree, I would send them questions in advance so they can think about their answers.

          And then be sure to follow up with a nice thank you email.

  78. Dotty*

    Does anyone have any tips they can share on prioritising and judging your workload? I manage a department and am used to a heavy workload but right now it’s through the roof and I just can’t seem to get a handle on it which also means I’m struggling to sleep and getting stress headaches. I spoke to my boss who acknowledged that it’s ‘unmanageable’ (she’s even asked me to carry over my PTO because there isn’t time for me to take it this year). We do projects for external clients so most of the time I’m dealing with hard deadlines – a few times we have asked clients for extensions but then that just has a knock on effect. I’ve been working late into the eve most nights but I also saw the letter on here a while back from the person whose colleague worked through the night so I know I’m making a rod for my own/others back in the long-term so any advice much appreciated!

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I’d go back to your boss and say, “Which of these projects are most crucial?”

      I’d also be blunt with your boss, if you two are close and have a god relationship. Decide what you would need to get these projects done and ask for it. It is temporary help? A borrowed hand from another department? Can you delegate more of it? In the ideal situation, what would the solution be to getting this all done on time?

      Sort that out and then ask for it.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      It sounds like the deadlines are out of control. Who sets the deadlines? Do they understand that you cannot do ten days of work in three days?

      Perhaps the deadlines come from the customers. Customers can be told what is a reasonable expectation and what is not.

      You are a manager. Do you have people assigned to you or do you just manage a department and be the department also? If you have people how is your ability to delegate doing? Are you trying to do it all yourself?

      Can you hire more people?

      What can you let go of? Is there anything that is of little consequence and therefore forfeitable?

      Can work be subcontracted out? can you get temps?

      When faced with a lot of work, I put things in order by due date: today, tomorrow, this week, next week.
      Every night I would cycle things forward on the list to have them organized for the next morning.
      Because they were in order by due date, I could pick out the things that would take the longest and assign one person to start those things. Ex: The paint on the teapots takes all week to dry and I need 5 teapots on Friday. So one person would prep those pots and they would be ready on Friday. We can’t buy time for some things, clothes will not dry faster, roasts won’t cook faster and so on. There are things that cannot be hastened. I would get these things started. Then I would work on today’s due dates. Sometimes I would get lucky and be able to bump to tomorrow’s due dates. Most times not.
      The next day I would repeat. I’d find the time sinks, such as the teapots or the roasts get them going, and then start on that day’s stuff.

      How is your NO word doing? Do you catch yourself saying, “Oh that five minute thing is no problem, I can do that.” Watch out for these pits. It’s very easy to forget how many 5 minute things we suck up, er I mean, take on, in the course of a day. Do that 6 times and you have lost a half hour of time. Vow not to be that person who takes on other people’s work or problems.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Schedule time to plan your day. It may feel like a waste when you have lots to do but you need to spend time on organisation. Beginning or end of day or whatever works for you.

      Use the important/urgent matrix (worth a Google) and plan time for both important/urgent and important/non-urgent things. Also use this to audit how you are spending your time. Chances are it’s being eaten by stuff that’s not important/urgent.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Examples:

        Important/urgent: imminent deadline
        Important/non-urgent: planning ahead on projects
        Not important/urgent: people asking you for things that could wait (clue: everything in this category seems urgent but actually isn’t)
        Not important/not urgent: timewasting distractions

  79. Tableau Wizard*

    Any experience with Bootcamp? I’m thinking it might solve my collaboration tool problem, but I’m not sure if I should keep exploring alternatives.

  80. I'm A Little TeaPot*

    Should I say something? If so, what?

    Part of my job is to draft this report. Sometimes, another person will draft a piece of it, then I’ll get that piece and incorporate it into what I’ve got. This week, I drafted this report. I’ve been told that my direct manager is writing a piece. Yesterday, had a meeting with 2 coworker, my manager, and the director above her (grandboss). Manager was 30 minutes late, so grandboss and the staff were discussing the status, etc. We were almost done when manager called in. Grandboss recapped, and manager said that she has the piece ready for the report. So, at the very end, I asked that she send what she’s got so I can incorporate into the draft that I have. She SNAPPED at me “I’ve got the full draft on my computer. Stop asking about this.” Everyone in the room was shocked, because it was really rude.

    Again, part of my JOB is do this report, like its in the official job description. I’ve done plenty of these reports in the past. Manager reviews and makes some changes, but I’m supposed to do the first draft. I’ve been in this job for several years, they promoted me earlier this year, so indications are that they think I’m decent at it.

    I’m furious. I was furious last night, and while I’ve calmed down I’m still really angry with her. I’ve been job searching anyway because I don’t like this manager’s style (alternate micromanaging and unavailable when I actually need her). Should I say something? If so, what? If it helps, no one in mgmt has said anything to me since this happened.

    1. Liz2*

      I wouldn’t- there were witnesses after all so they know it happened. You’ve already decided to move on which seems healthy so keep records of contacts and follows up on your responsibilities and let it ride.

    2. Still Deciding on a Name*

      If you really want to say something, I’d suggest approaching Grandboss and framing it as you seeking advice on how to respond to similar incidents in the future. If she’s done this before, I would also suggest mentioning that as part of the reason you want to know how to address it in the future. Your Grandboss is much more likely to receive it well if you focus on your actions and what you can do differently instead of complaining.

    3. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      Well, I decided not to say anything. Nothing was said to me all day, by anyone. Since I have no poker face, it was pretty clear to people that I was frustrated. Since my computer decided today to be particularly annoying, I just passed it off on that. Luckily, it’s Friday. By Monday I will have my expressions under control.

      Also, Monday I’m talking to another recruiter. :) I am looking forward to finding a new job and giving notice.

  81. Sualah*

    I have an interview coming up for an internal transfer/job that sounds amazing and interesting and I’m really excited for it. I thought I had blown the initial screen, but I got invited back for this interview, so I guess not!

    The thing is, I wasn’t really looking for another job. I’m very happy in my current position and with my current coworkers and especially with my manager–she’s awesome. But trying something else that is actually a great stretch job for me, but also utilizes my background kind of perfectly (it’s actually kind of weird how well my career trajectory fits in with this job) is a really attractive prospect.

    The biggest wrinkle is, I’m 17 weeks pregnant and have a 14 month old at home. I cannot overstate how accommodating my manager is with appointments and work from home and all other things that come with small children. And my current position…is really really easy right now? Like, I not only know the ropes, I know them in my sleep. Which is very nice when you feel like a zombie since you only got three hours sleep last night.

    This new position is a brand new team, brand new process, brand new everything. And come spring, I’ll be taking 16 weeks leave (that my company offers). I know legally, that’s fine, but when someone is gone for that long, it can be hard on a team. (We currently have someone out on leave and I’m thrilled that fathers can have 16 weeks, too, but his work has to get done.) I have credibility built up with my current manager and current team for when I’m gone. If I got the job, possibly not so much with this new team.

    There’s no real advice anyone can give, I know. It’s not like I have an offer, and if I do get an offer, I’m the only one who can decide how much of a new challenge I want to put myself through right now, and what’s the right choice for my career and my family. But I can’t stop turning it over and over in my head.

    1. JN*

      I would think that you could bring up at least some of your concerns in the upcoming interview, especially if your pregnancy is (or would be at that time) visibly apparent. Like “After the birth of my baby, I would plan to take the 16 weeks of maternity leave that our company offers. How do you see the duties of this position being handled during that time? What would I need to do in advance to be ready for this?” I don’t have words that are quite as good for the flexibility/at home working aspect.

      Nothing wrong with seeing how the rest of the interview process goes. Like you said, you don’t have an offer now, and might not have one at the end of this. If you do get an offer, nothing requires you to accept it if you’re happy with the job you have now and see the flexibility it provides as being more important to you and your family than anything the new position would offer. You could always say, “This position really interested me, but I’ve come to the decision/realization that now is just not the right time for me to transition into this.”

      1. Sualah*

        Thank you for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it. The manager works in another state and it’s going to be a phone interview, so I’ll have to just say that I’m pregnant–hopefully it doesn’t come off super awkward. If I was super desperate to leave my position, I’d probably keep my pregnancy to myself (since it is an internal position, there’s no change in benefits or anything, and they can’t take away the parental leave) and hope for the best. Since I like where I am, I am going to be frank during the interview that I’ll be taking the leave and ask how that would impact things and other questions. Things like what sort of work week they see right off the bat (lots of overtime, or will it be a regular work week for the most part), what sort of flexibility with hours and work from home she is comfortable with, that sort of thing. Of course, the nice thing about her being in a different state is that hopefully, she wouldn’t care if I’m in the office or not, because there’s no difference to her if I’m at the office or home, as long as the work gets done.

        I know how lucky I am right now, in that if the hiring manager is put off by that and doesn’t feel I’m the best fit for the job, that’s no skin off my nose. (And of course, I don’t mean to imply that the hiring manager having a problem with me wanting flexibility or taking leave would be the only reason I wouldn’t get an offer! I’m very sure there are lots of qualified candidates, and there’s no guarantee I would be the best one!)

  82. Rescue all the dogs!!*

    When you’re in talks for another job, is there a tactful way to ask if there is advancement opportunity without it seeming like you’re unhappy with the offer and already chasing after a promotion?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I usually phrase it by asking, “Can you talk about people move up in this organization?” Or you can ask about what sort of professional development they offer, but that might be too oblique.

      Or I sometimes just play the observation game. How many people are there who are in the type of job you would want and do they seem like they are never leaving? I’m looking for a job right now, because as much as I adore where I am, there’s no way for me to advance.

    2. Liz2*

      1) “Can you tell me what developing and advancement looks like in your teams?”
      2) “What development opportunities do you encourage employees to take advantage of?”

  83. AdAgencyChick*

    If a business is doing construction on their office space and the noise affects other businesses that are in the same building, what does the business doing the construction owe to the businesses that are affected?

    My office is currently getting tortured by construction noise from a business that has leased space on the same floor but hasn’t moved in yet. I heard a rumor that the construction could go on for *eight months*.

    I know I can put headphones on but is there anything else we can do? Maybe negotiate more work-from-home time with our own management because the distraction is so bad? (And don’t get me started about hammering and power tools starting up in the middle of a conference call…)

    1. Coalea*

      I think it’s totally reasonable to request additional WFH time! A few years back there was major construction on the same floor where my office was located and it was really disruptive. After a few days of the racket, they offered us all the opportunity to work remotely for the duration of the project (several months).

    2. Natalie*

      Since you lease I would start with your landlord. For one, they might be managing the construction directly, but even if they aren’t it’s their job to enforce any kind of rules about when certain construction tasks can be done. Really loud stuff like hammer drilling is typically not supposed to be done during normal business hours.

      Other than that, I think more work from home time or flexible scheduling sounds like a great idea.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I think that interference with business calls is a good talking point.
      Perhaps the contractors can start earlier so they leave earlier in the day.
      Or perhaps they can work nights and weekends.
      Maybe they can schedule the noisy work during non-business hours or during a quieter time of the workday.

      Construction should not be noisy for eight months. Once the noise is done, then come the paint and stain fumes. sigh. how do I know this.
      Management should talk to the owner of the building. Where I work I can talk to the contractor directly as we have X thing at set time each week. So I am not overstepping by reminding him we need the machines off at that time, since he was already told this. (Yes, 5 minutes before X time, the machines are running. So I go and ask them to be turned off. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.)

  84. jstarr*

    How do you work with people who hate the job you do?

    My position is basically one where I have to enforce certain guidelines in various departments. The teapot needs this before it can move on sort of thing.

    The issue is many people in the factory resent having to be told this as it “doesn’t mesh with my work style”. Upper management has no interest in forcing them to listen to me but if they don’t, it could result in severe legal penalties.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Your issue seems to be that upper management isn’t expressing how critical and important your role is. Do they *understand* what the repercussions would be if they don’t meet the requirements? I would probably have a frank conversation with your direct supervisor.

      “People get angry when I tell them the spout is connected at the wrong angle, but if I let these teapots be sold, we could be liable for people being burned by boiling water when they pour their tea. How can we convey the importance of the spouts being connected at the right angle?”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yeah, upper management needs to back you up. I would have a serious conversation with your boss. “If we are not in compliance then x, y and z will happen. People think that following these compliance rules is not necessary because upper management says nothing.”

  85. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    I guess I do wonder something kind of silly though. I finally finished CouchTo5k and am doing my first 5k this weekend! And I am trying to eat healthier.

    I don’t usually comment on others’ food except to ask where they got it, or say something like, I wish I could eat that! while I eat my fifth lunch salad of the week. I also don’t mention my weight.

    But, I am excited about being able to run and having the will to eat better, so I have talked about “I have to run tonight” or how I am looking forward to the race, or that I want pizza this week but need to stick to a plan.

    Diet/food police-y, or normal?

    1. Morning Glory*

      I would personally be offended if a coworker saw me eating my lunch and said ‘I wish I could eat that.’

      Unless we were very close and had a strong foundation of goodwill built up.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Yup. “That looks/smells amazing!” is just about the only thing that’s appropriate to say about someone else’s lunch. Maybe, “Ooh, I was totally craving tacos too! Thanks for the inspiration.” Otherwise? Say nothing.

      2. Fictional Butt*

        Yeah, it’s an awkward thing to say because there’s no good response. “Too bad you can’t eat it, it’s fantastic! Have fun with your stupid diet or whatever!”

        It makes me feel like I’m making them feel bad just by eating.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Yeah, I wouldn’t say “I wish I could eat that” because it could come across as kind of judge-y.

      1. Cloud Nine Sandra*

        Agreed with the two above, though it is actually perfectly normal. “Wish I could eat that” or “No pizza for me, I’m running!” does come off as judgey. Maybe stick with “that smells great.” Or nothing.

        When you say you’re excited about your “will to eat better,” there’s an implication that other people lack that will or are happy to eat “worse.” Do you see how that phrasing implies judgment? I would take into account all bodies are not the same and what’s better for you may be crappy for another person, and you don’t know people’s history with food.

        Stick to your excitement about you running a race, and you’re looking forward to this accomplishment for you and don’t mention food at all, and I think your coworkers will be thankful and you won’t have to worry about food policing.

    3. Footiepjs*

      I have eaten salads for lunch this week because I bought some “aspirational produce” and I need to use it all up. All days so far, I’ve gotten a comment on it. It doesn’t bug me all that much but I thought everyone knew not to comment on other people’s food choices. Saying something like “oh! that looks good!” is totally acceptable, as is asking for a recipe or whatever.

      Nobody really likes diet or exercise talk, though. Unless you’re friends. I would be like “okay?” if a coworker told me they miss pizza or what-have-you.

    4. Star*

      Congrats on completing couch to 5k! The running bug can be pretty addictive. I completed my first 5k last year, and recently did a half marathon, so I know how it feels to want to talk about running and all the things that come with it, like making sure you’re fuelling properly.

      That said, I would really try to steer away from diet talk at work. “That looks good!” is probably fine, but not much else. If someone asks what you did at the weekend, you can obviously say you went for a run, or talk about how excited you are for your race, or what have you, but maybe keep away from “have to” talk? It can sound like you’re… idk, subtly judging people’s exercise habits? I know that sometimes it does feel like you have to drag yourself out of the door to run, but just stick to “I’m going running tonight”.

      I hope that makes sense. Good luck in your races, I hope you keep enjoying running!

    7. Oryx*

      Assuming you’re not talking about food you are allergic to or has otherwise ill effects on your body, you actually CAN eat it, you’re just CHOOSING not to.

      Which is totally your prerogative, but if you’re choosing to not eat a food because it’s “bad” for you or you are applying some other negative aspect to that food, then by saying you wish you “could eat that” you are now applying that same negative aspect to your coworker’s decision to eat that food. Especially because I’m a runner and I eat pizza. I drink beer. So it just starts to veer into a diet and food police territory and intentional or not, it comes off as judgmental.

    8. Sam Yao*

      Not commenting on others’ food (like, at all: “I wish I could eat that” would get me defensively wondering what you’re implying) is a good start, but I think you should avoid commenting on your own food too. “I want pizza this week but need to stick to a plan” can imply “unlike you,” and so can come across as criticizing other people’s choices even if you don’t mean to. I think if you want to talk about food, it’s best to avoid talking about the reasoning behind it: “Nah, I’ll have pizza another time” is more neutral than “I want it but I won’t (because of my willpower or what have you).”

      Same with running. Know your audience to determine where your enthusiasm should be directed. Honestly, if I had to keep hearing about a co-worker’s fitness plan of any kind, I’d have started to tune it out after the third or fourth time. Is there a running club or online community you might be able to join where you could trade running talk and tips in a more appropriate environment?

  86. paul*

    I’ve got 2 resumes out and they’re both for positions in my field…in states I’ve never even visited. I’m frankly terrified either way at this point. I’m getting a cover letter put together for a third this weekend.

    I’m frankly terrified. We were going to wait until spring and relocate then but both my wife’s work and mine are not so great right and these openings are fairly decent pay for the field, they’re in small towns or mid sized (sub 500k people) metros, and they’re all within an hour or so drive of major national forest or state parks and/or public land that’s open for hunting and fishing. Which is all a major plus. They’re all further north and east than I’ve ever lived.

    How do you handle the confused ambivalence? I want the jobs or think I do but the prospect of moving halfway across the country (with young kids and pets) away from all our support is scary. At 20 it didn’t phase me, but now it kind of does.

    1. Overeducated*

      I know how you feel. We’re in a similar state of limbo and can’t even decide what we want (though a small metro near wilderness inthe northeast sounds pretty perfect). How to handle it, I don’t know, but the terrified ambivalence is a real thing.

      1. paul*

        The one I’m applying for this weekend is in the upper penn. of Michigan; I’m a rocky mountain kid but I gotta admit, I’m a little intimidated by the type of winter they get!

        1. Miranda*

          Depends on what part of the U.P. you end up in. Near lake superior you will get lake effect, it can mean crazy amounts of snow at once, but mostly just means lots of continual little flurries, one winter I was up at Michigan Tech we nearly broke a record for most consecutive days with measurable snowfall – snowed every day for a month straight, not a lot, quarter to a half inch at most, but it adds up. Really though, you just need to have the right tires for your car, good warm clothes and snow removal equipment and you’ll be just fine. Further away from the lake is less snow, just rather cold. You do have to like small town and outdoor doings, which it sounds like you do. I say this because it is a long drive, on mostly two lane rural roads (with occasional passing lanes), to get to a bigger city (please note that Green Bay, WI, despite their NFL team, does NOT count as a bigger city). I did love it there, and miss it, but alas the jobs market for myself and hubby were simply not there.

    2. Reba*

      I’ve moved a lot, all over the US and outside it — though not with kids. One thing that has helped me in the transitions is just to acknowledge that it’s hard and stressful. Like, talk to my partner and say to each other, we are entering a period of ambiguity and stress, we’ll probably snap at each other more, lose track of some things, get really tired sometimes, spend lots of money and have to make difficult choices. And we will get through that.

      Best of luck with the applications and relocation.

    3. LNLN*

      Your ambivalence may decline if you or your wife gets a job you’re excited about. Right now you are thinking about what you are leaving/losing. But with a new job you will start thinking about what you are moving towards. That will probably reduce your ambivalence. Good luck!

  87. AnotherLibrarian*

    How do you let go when you have applied for a job you very much want? I know I need to act as though I won’t get the job and I have done that in some ways, but mentally I have struggling to just move on. Any advice on how people do that would be amazing.

    1. EmilyG*

      I was in the same position a few years ago and someone on here suggested picturing the Yip Yips (from Sesame Street) saying Nope nope nope nope. Basically, anytime my thoughts strayed that way, I’d cue my nope nope nope soundtrack and daydream about something else (winning the lottery, whatever). I can’t say this totally worked, but it was an amusing distraction until I heard back! Good luck…

  88. Cruciatus*

    This week an internal director candidate where I work found out they didn’t get the job during some sort of live online presentation many people across multiple sites across the state were watching when it was mentioned an offer had been extended for this position (and obviously not to that person). It was a huge accidental oversight, but man. Rough.

    1. JN*

      Gosh, that sucks for that director (and whoever was involved in the oops). I hope those who committed the oversight reached out to that director and apologized for how things transpired–and that they work to identify where things went off the rails and find a solution to prevent something like this from happening again.

  89. Lola*

    At what point does a retail job become too bad to continue with?

    I’ve been at this job for almost a year. I like my co-workers. I like my managers (well, mostly – we’ll get to that.) Recently, the mandatory minimum wage in my province was increased, and in response to this, upper management decided to slash hours. This means fewer people working at any given time, meaning that we have to work twice as hard to manage the same amount of coverage. We’re bleeding employees – three have quit in the past month. Recently, one of my managers called me into her office and scolded me for requesting too much time off, since October is our busiest month*. “This [the job] should be your first priority,” she told me. They’ve also started giving us “on-call” shifts, meaning we have to keep our calendar clear for certain days in case we get called into work. There’s no gaurantee that we WILL be called in on those days, and we’re not paid for staying available.

    What do I do? I can’t imagine any other retail job would be much better, and I need the paycheque from this job. But I can also feel myself burning out, and I don’t want to end up having my performance suffer and leaving the job on bad terms.

    *The way time off works – since this job is part-time – is that we have set “available” hours that we submit to our managers. Then if we want a day off that we usually list as available, we submit a request (in a recent meeting, the manager who scolded me reminded us that it’s a request, not a sure thing, and she can choose to refuse if we’re needed to work that day) to have that day/time off. I requested a handful of afternoons/evenings off, hence the scolding. My department is also understaffed, thanks to the aforementioned three employees quitting, so I’ve essentially been working full-time hours for the past month.

    3. Panda Bandit*

      It’s bad enough to leave. Retail jobs aren’t usually great but many will be better than your current one. Your boss expecting a part-time retail job to be your priority is ridiculous and so is the on-call thing.

  90. Jenny Jenkins*

    One of my direct reports just gave her notice… over email. Noticed she avoided me all day in the office yesterday, and I work from home on Fridays. Didn’t even attempt to call me. Also told HR before me.

    I’m annoyed by this – seems so unprofessional…

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I would be tempted to schedule a meeting with her on Monday and ask why she did it that way.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Was this a employee newer to the workforce? I can imagine my younger self doing something like that. “Difficult conversations” were conflated with “confrontations” and it would have been my first instinct to avoid them at all costs. I can also see someone with limited professional experience not understanding the norm for how to give notice.

      1. Jenny Jenkins*

        She has had other professional jobs, but definitely still “newer.” However, she is extremely polished in her communication so it kind of caught me off guard.

        1. AnotherLibrarian*

          Resignations can make people do crazy things. The only thing I would be concerned about would be if she thought, for some reason, that you might react poorly. I resigned once and had a manager throw a fit. She was normally very professional and laid back, so this astonished me and I still remember being so shocked. It has taken me a while to get over that. So, there might be something similar here with her.

    3. Someone else*

      This may vary by industry and/or the type of relationship you have with your direct reports, but my experience is that it is extremely common to give notice via email. Especially if one is super unhappy in the job. Folks with really good relationships with their supervisors might say it in person and then send an email reiterating, but without more detail, what you just described does not strike me as inherently unprofessional.

  91. Lindsay*

    I’m working my way through school as a manager at a restaurant. The hours work well with my school schedule which is the only reason I’m still here. I close the restaurant a few nights a week, my boss’ son closes the other nights. He gets the best closers on his shifts. I get the two stoners who are dating and constantly all over each other and can’t complete a simple task without being reminded they need to finish said tasks every few seconds. Despite them working here over a year they both act like every step that needs to be done at closing time is brand new information. I feel more like a babysitter most nights. They throw food at each other, if I ask one to do the dishes they will take the bubbles from the sink and play with them. My boss is aware this is how they are because her son has refused to work with them. Last week one night I was in tears because it was so late and we still had so much to do and the two of them were just so uncooperative. I basically run around like a crazy person doing everything myself. So yesterday I told my boss that I just can’t do it anymore. She needs to split them up. I explained to her in great detail everything that has been going on. She seemed understanding. But then I overheard her talking to her son while she was working on next week’s schedule and she said that I don’t have a choice and have to work with them. I’m looking for a new job and can’t afford to just up and quit but mentally I can’t take this anymore. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Jascha*

      I understand that you can’t quit, of course – but are you in a position to be able to quietly job-hunt on the side while continuing in this job as a stopgap? If your boss won’t address the issue and there’s nowhere else to turn (and I remember from my own restaurant jobs that there often isn’t), it might be time to see if you can possibly get a similar position under better conditions.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Ditto. There is a great market for managers looking for retail/restaurant work. You may be surprised how quickly you can find a new job. And I bet they would work around your schedule.

    3. INeedANap*

      Can you ask your boss to clearly delineate who is responsible for what tasks? That way, you can finish yours and leave? Or, as manager, are you forced to stay to lock up? Are there any work-arounds where someone else can lock the doors, or otherwise free you up so you can leave when your work is done?

    4. Natalie*

      I know this probably isn’t your preferred solution, but if it was temporary, would it be preferable to you to just cut them and do the closing stuff by yourself? It will obviously be more work, but if you can just get in the zone and get it done without having to deal with Wingus and Dingus it might feel like less.

    5. nep*

      No advice but just want to say I really hope you will find a job with a schedule that works for you and where you won’t have to put up with such crap. That really is unacceptable behaviour on their part — and it sucks that your boss is not doing something about it. Sounds like your boss does not deserve you. You seem like a disciplined, hard-working individual. Good luck and all the best in school and work.

    6. Troutwaxer*

      Can you ask for some ability to discipline them? Even if you can’t fire them, can you send them home early, suspend them, demote them, give them a PIP, etc? When your boss says that you will continue to be in charge of those days, that doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t have the ability to discipline, but you probably need to ask for it.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Ask her to come in an observe what is going on. If she can enter discreetly that would be better.

    8. nonegiven*

      What if you send one home and lock them out and tell the other one they can leave after the work is done?

  92. Savannnah*

    I’ve finally been given the OK to let the rest of my team know I am leaving in Feb. (even though I told my boss about it back in July) He wants me to do it at a large group meeting and not one on one and having never quit a job before, I feel uneasy to announce in a setting like that. I would much prefer people to be able to react in a not in public way but is this just a normal way to do things?

    1. JulieBulie*

      I don’t know if it’s ABnormal, but I’ve never seen it before. Sometimes a manager will announce an employee’s impending exit, and sometimes it is up to the employee to inform coworkers in whatever way they see fit… but I’ve never heard of an employee being told to do it a specific way.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      That’s not normal at all. I would push back and tell your boss that you’re not comfortable doing that.

    3. Agathe_M*

      Don’t know if you’ll see this, but when I left First Office Job to go back to school in a different city, I gave notice in December that I’d be leaving at the end of July. It was basically an open secret from that point on (with Boss’s blessing). By the end of March, I’d say 70% of the team knew because I’d told them directly, and the rest knew because gossip.

      In May, I made an official announcement at a team meeting, as part of explaining the big “we need to document all our informal knowledge before Agathe leaves” documentation project I got to run. No one was actually surprised at that point but it felt good to officially say it in front of everyone at once, and know that everyone was on the same page. A little awkward, so I get the uneasiness, but the group announcement gave it a kind of reality it hadn’t had before.

      I don’t know how much time you have before the group meeting, but maybe if there are people you’re particularly close to or work closely with, your boss might be okay with you giving them a heads-up? Or maybe there’s a reason he wants you to announce in the group that would make sense in your context once you know it, or maybe it never occurred to him that you’d be uncomfortable with it, or maybe he’s just very particular about this sort of thing… but if you are uncomfortable with it, go back to him and let him know, and there may be room to manuever.

  93. Fishsticks*

    Any advice for how to wear dresses in a business casual office (more business than casual)???? I’m not sure the best way to do it as I have a few long sleeves that wouldn’t work with cardigans and overall not sure how to deem a dress okay for work versus wandering around the city. I’m thinking always have a pair of matching leggings on underneath but I wanted to get an idea of what other people do. Thank you!!!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I usually do leggings or tights under my dresses once the weather gets cooler. As long as it’s not super short, skin tight, or has a plunging neckline, it’s probably okay for the office.

    2. fposte*

      Statement jewelry, on point belt and shoes, scarf. Are we talking poofier sleeves? Those are a pain for cardigans for sure; I have a waterfall cardigan that’s cut generously enough for them, but I have to dress that up in its own right if it has to be business casual.

    3. Emi.*

      Sheath dresses look more businessy than fuller dresses (especially if they’re twirly or stretchy/bouncy).

      I think leggings are more formal the more they look like tights, which generally means hiding the sock/legging boundary in a bootie or something like that (or if you’re wearing pumps, you could just get fleece tights).

      My boss wears sleeveless dresses with snug, long-sleeved tops underneath so that her jacket and/or cardigan goes on smoothly, but she’s still warm.

      1. Fishsticks*

        Unfortunately most of my dresses are twirly (it’s the best style for my body type) so I may just have to use a blazer or something. But I didn’t think of the long sleeve shirt under a sleeveless dress! Thank you for that idea!!

  94. Jascha*

    I’m about to apply for a long-shot, but very awesome, job. The position profile states the title of the person to whom I’d be reporting, and LinkedIn reveals that person’s name.

    Should I address my cover letter to that person directly? I thought yes, based on what I’ve read, but now some generally trustworthy people have told me they prefer not to do that unless they’ve had prior contact with the person – or that I shouldn’t do it because it’s possible that person won’t be involved/alone in the hiring process.

    In case it makes a difference to accepted customs, this is a provincial government job in Canada.

    What say you all?

    1. A.N.O.N.*

      Often resumes and cover letter are initially screened by HR, not the hiring manager. That said, most people don’t care. Using the hiring manager’s name or just “Hiring Manager” or some other standard variant are all fine.

      1. Jascha*

        Thanks! I’m nervous because I’m not sure how involved he is in hiring, but I’m equally worried “Hiring Manager” will signal that I *didn’t* care enough to try to find the information – which I did, and I (think I) succeeded.

          1. Jascha*

            And thanks again! Hopefully, my cover letter will be just awesome enough that any awkwardness over the salutation will fly under the radar.

        3. Little Twelvetoes*

          I would be worried that the information I saw on LinkedIn could be out of date. In my opinion, it would be worse to address it to the wrong name, whereas “Hiring Manager” should not offend anyone. (and if does offend them, that is a red flag)

  95. gwen*

    I work in an open office with several other people. One colleague makes an unusual amount of noise. He grunts often, blows his nose in a fog-horn fashion, and clears his throat loudly. He types normally, but several times a day he will bang on one key repeatedly, perhaps in frustration. He slams cups and bottles on his desk. When he’s using the printer, he somehow manages to bang the tray around much more aggressively than anyone else. The various noises are low-grade annoying all day and sometimes very startling. I wear noise cancelling headphones when possible, which is not nearly all the time, but they only do so much. His noise-making is certainly over-the-top, but I am also sensitive to this kind of stuff, so I’m having trouble judging how much of this is just my problem. Sometimes I don’t notice how tense I am around him until he leaves the room and I feel a wave of relief. Can anyone share advice–or even just commiserate?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      The grunting, nose blowing, and throat clearing I wouldn’t mention – I think it’s better to be forgiving of bodily function noises in that kind of environment because a lot of it is involuntary. The slamming seems like more of an issue, though. Can you say something when it happens? Like, he bangs on the one key, you take out your headphones and look concerned and alarmed: “Wow, is everything okay over there?” Or if he’s making a lot of banging with the printer, “Hey, can I help you with that? It looks like that tray is giving you some trouble?” He may or may not take the hint, but that’s where I’d start before escalating anything.

    2. Jascha*

      I can definitely commiserate! A colleague in my office used to be just the same. They’d laugh loudly, often, and out of the blue at things they’d just read, or heard over their headphones. They’d bang their hands on their desk for no apparent reason. They’d play music and YouTube videos aloud without asking if anyone minded. They’d have work-related telephone calls, including important business calls and recorded interviews, in our open-plan office because it was easier than going to a designated telephoning space. Eventually, they moved to another department (for totally unrelated reasons), and although they were never a bad person, it was such a relief to have the constant noise end!

  96. couch sweet potato*

    One of my LinkedIn contacts is a social media director at Universal Orlando. He shared this YouTube video with the following comment, “One of my favorite and unique content pieces we have created at Universal Orlando. What a wonderful example of branded content that can stand on its own as entertaining and valuable. Kudos to everyone involved.” It’s a silly video by a couple of (male) prominent YouTubers doing silly things.

    Every single person who has a speaking role in this video appears to be a white guy. I know it’s prooooobably a bad move professionally as I don’t know the director (also a white male) personally, but should I reach out to him and draw his attention to it? For example, “What a great partnership! In the future, I would encourage you to use a cast that was more reflective of all the people who love and visit Universal. I know Universal values diversity and I was surprised to see that this video didn’t showcase that core value.”

  97. PlantLady*

    More of a vent than an actual question, but I wouldn’t mind some advice. First of all, this is a problem that a lot of people would love to have in this economy, and I’m WELL aware of that.

    I have an interview next week for a job that, quite frankly, I’m not all that interested in getting. It’s not the job itself or the organization, it’s the fact that it’s full-time with (it sounds like) no flexibility on hours. If it were part time, even with very set hours, I’d be fine with it. But the past 8 years have been spent working a great job that was also very, very flexible about hours and I’ll admit that I got used to that. Every job I’d had before that one was not only the standard 8-to-5, but the last two I had (before FlexJob) were flat-out toxic. We had managers who would walk the office at 4:55 on a Friday afternoon, just to make note of who was still there. The toxicity went way beyond that, but that’s an example relative to this situation. I know that this 40-hour-a-week job is not one of the toxic 40-hour-a-week jobs I had before, but I can’t seem to stop equating “full time with set hours” to “crying in my car at lunch”.

    I do understand that 8-5 or 9-5 is completely normal, and if that’s the way a business is set up, then that’s what you deal with. It’s my own reaction to going back to it that I’m having a hard time with.

    Why is it even an issue, then? Why did I even apply for the job? Well, here’s the situation: Spouse and I recently relocated halfway across the country from where we’d been for a lot of years. We wanted out of where we were and Spouse got a great opportunity. We went from Big City to Small Town, and there simply aren’t a lot of jobs available for me. Luckily, Spouse’s income is enough to support us, and the plan was for me to go back to my writing and see what kind of a career I could make out of that. I had started on that plan and was looking forward to seeing what came of it.

    However, the expense of the move and a few other unanticipated costs drained our reserves down more than we are comfortable with and we’d recover a lot faster if there was a second paycheck coming in. So when I applied for the job, it was with the thought that (if I got it) I’d work there for a year or two, bulk up the bank account, and then resign if I didn’t like the job.

    There are positives to the situation. The work itself, while I could see it being a little dull, is nothing I can’t deal with. The organization is one I support wholeheartedly, and is related to what I did in FlexJob and to my education and volunteer experiences. The paycheck, while not exceptional, is quite good for jobs in this area and would bulk up the family coffers quite well. I don’t know anyone who works at the organization, but reports are that it’s a good group of people.

    But. Once I put in the application and got the call for an interview, I started looking at the reality of going back to 40 hours a week at a desk – with 90 minutes of commuting every day – and it’s making me queasy. Earlier in my life, the idea of working at an even half-way tolerable job for a year or two to stash some money away wouldn’t have bothered me a bit. But when 50 is on the horizon and I’ve survived some horrible jobs only to have to leave a terrific one…my tolerance for doing jobs I don’t want to do is very low.

    So I’m going back and forth between “suck it up and take the money” and “Oh my God I do not want to spend the next couple of years doing this!” With a little bit of, “Actually, it might not be so bad” thrown in just to confuse things more.

    (Yes, I’m aware that I might not get the job and this could all be rendered moot.)

    At this point, the plan is to go in to the interview, ask a lot of questions, get a read on the group and then see how I feel and go from there. I think that’s all I can do right now.

    Has anyone else found themselves in this kind of position? Any thoughts on getting a handle on the emotions?

    1. Jaded*

      I’m in my 40s and have worked some truly awful jobs in my life, to the point where the last one destroyed my mental and physical health and it took me a long time to get better. Nowadays I work lower-paying jobs that don’t make me cry. I don’t have a great track record of putting my own best interests first when it comes to jobs, but I know that if I work another job that makes me that miserable it would be very bad for my marriage, and I’m not prepared to gamble with that. So if it were me, I’d pass on this job that you feel so strongly about, and find something else that isn’t so upsetting.

      Tldr: I wouldn’t get a handle on my emotions; I’d follow them and look for a different job.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      The 90 minutes of commuting has me in tears already.
      No. I would not do this. I would figure out something else. The wear and tear on your car, your body and increased car costs could possibly drain you of any gain.
      No. Keep looking around.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      I’ll admit, with a long commute (this qualifies to me) I would be way less tolerant of fixed hours. I had a 90 min commute but flexible hours in my last job – if they had revoked the flexible hours option, I would have been job hunting immediately since I was also already maxing out the work from home option (1x per week).

      Your situation sounds like you’d really benefit in all ways with a part time job (extra but not critical income, not fixed 40 hours, time for your writing), but that’s dependent on something suitable being available to you. Is that an option?

      If not, personally I would at least participate in the interview. If thinking about it after that makes you just as unhappy, you can always turn down any offer you get.

  98. super anon*

    Can you negotiate your salary at your annual review? I recently took a medical leave from my job due to overwork and exhaustion after nearly 3 years in my role. My job is mentally draining and also very poorly compensated (the other person who does the same job as me and my position was created based off of makes $45,000 more, and the other kind-of-similar positions with less work at my org pay anywhere from $15,000 to $25,000 more) so I have been working 2 jobs to be able to cover all of my expenses. This is no longer tenable, and when I was returning to work I candidly told my manager that unless I was paid more I would have to leave for better compensated pastures.

    The good news is I wasn’t immediately fired and instead my boss and grandbosses want to meet with me to discuss paying me more as part of a 2 year over due annual review. Am I able to negotiate in this kind of situation? Can I ask for a title change as well, as the scope of my work has drastically increased and changed since I was first hired? Ideally I would want a title change as I’ve been doing the work of a manager for over a year and half, but without the title I’ve found it nearly impossible to be considered for any type of management roles in my company, so a title change would be ideal to me and I would accept less money to get it.

    I’ve never been in this position before and it’s exciting but also pretty scary, so any advice would be much appreciated!

    1. fposte*

      You’re on the verge of leaving. I think you should absolutely ask for what you want and what would make it okay for you to stay. I think you should also be okay with the possibility that you might be leaving not far down the line anyway, even if they do give you more money, even if they do give you what you ask for. Because that’s okay to do, and it’s been hard enough for you there for a while that it’s worth considering.

  99. Fawn*

    I’m in a situation. A month ago, I started a new role at the University I’ve been working at for a few years. It’s turning out to be a terrible fit. The work is regressive, and totally different from what I thought I’d be doing, thanks to some policy changes that were implemented just before I started. Basically, shifting from student service to instructional designer – not really my thing. I can see myself staying here for a year if I have to, but not much longer.

    Here’s the tricky thing – there’s a role in a department (same uni) I used to work at that’s coming available. I know the role, I know the manager (she’s a reference)…I really want to apply. Should I? How can I handle this? How would you feel if one of your former staff approached you about this, knowing they just took on a new position?

    1. A.N.O.N.*

      I think there’s a tactful way to say that the new position you took on isn’t a great fit for you. You can say you expected to be doing more XYZ work, but are finding that because of recent policy changes, you’re really doing ABC work. Most managers will understand this; it’s not abnormal to start a job and find out it’s not really what it was advertised to be.

  100. bene-what-nows?*

    To begin, I live in BC, Canada, so hopefully some savvy west coast Canadians are hanging around.

    The owner of our job is changing and rearranging almost *everything* – and out of that, some good things our coming our way. One of the biggest things is that our workplace is going to begin offering benefits. The new owner sat us all down to discuss the changes and when they discussed the benefits they said that we’d be meeting with an ‘agent’ (or a broker or something like that) for the insurance company to discuss what’s best for us. Well… I’ve never had a job with benefits before. What on earth am I supposed to be expecting out of this?? Am I supposed to mention health issues? Not mention health issues? I don’t mind talking about some of them if it helps, but one health issue is a mental health issue that, while under control, does require medication, and it would be nice to have some of that paid for – also it’d be nice if I could swing some therapy sessions because I’m fairly sure that would improve other areas. But I don’t like talking about that with other people. Right now, only my parents and siblings know. Sooo… how is this meeting going to go? Are we there to talk about plans or are they going to ask details about my medical history?

    1. Cloud Nine Sandra*

      You can ask about prescription benefits “for chronic conditions” – it’s not even a lie, you’re just not stating the condition.

    2. SacherTorte*

      BC solidarity – north, interior, or coast?

      I’ve only done the benefits thing as a union government worker in northern BC. It was a group meeting with everyone in my building who was part of the union and they explained how to fill in the paperwork, what the different levels of benefits were, and how to access coverage for things not included in the plan. After that any issues/questions went straight to the insurance company – I don’t think anyone in my office or union had access to any personal information related to my benefits.

      Hope that helps!

      1. bene-what-nows?*

        Coastal! That does help, gives me a clearer idea as to the probable steps in the process. Thank you!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      They are just going to explain what the overview is.
      Not much different than buying a clothes washer, this machine offers this, this and this. This other machine offers that, that and that.

      You will pick the plan that is affordable and closest to being somewhat useful. They will probably give you handouts with lists of what the different plans are and what each plan gives you.

      No you do not tell them what is wrong with you. You can build a “grocery list” of things you want to look for: prescription drug plan, dental plan, counseling, and so on.

      Watch the deductibles, this is how much you pay out of pocket. Generally the more a plan costs the less deductibles you have, so the less out of pocket you pay.

      They should give you plenty of paperwork to bring home and read over before deciding. Probably you will have time to talk to others, so you will have a better handle on what one to pick.

  101. fposte*

    While there are political elements, the article in the Atlantic about civil servants quitting the current administration is a fascinating exploration about how people can view their jobs and what makes them leave. Link in followup.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Thanks for sharing! That was definitely interesting to read. It’s always fascinated me how many government employees work for administrations of both parties and it’s a little frightening that these long term people are leaving in droves. It really speaks to how dysfunctional things are right now.

    4. PX*

      In a similar vein, here are 2 older but equally interesting articles talking about the effects the new administration has had on certain departments (and also some cool insight into how they work!). Its perhaps a lesson on what not to do as a new boss, and include some classic gems as:

      The survey,[…] asked employees questions and prompts like, “To optimally support the future mission of the Department, what one or two things should your work unit totally stop doing or providing?” and “Help us build a word cloud.” Many questions presupposed offices needed to be cut.

      http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/31/how-the-trump-administration-broke-the-state-department/
      and

      The people appointed by a newly elected president to solve these problems have roughly 75 days to learn from their predecessors. After the inauguration, a lot of deeply knowledgeable people will scatter to the four winds and be forbidden, by federal law, from initiating any contact with their replacements. The period between the election and the inauguration has the feel of an A.P. chemistry class to which half the students have turned up late and are forced to scramble to grab the notes taken by the other half, before the final.

      https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/department-of-energy-risks-michael-lewis

      (Sorry if this is too much politics!)

    5. Artemesia*

      If we have a serious pandemic that is highly lethal, or a war on our soil or a meteor is streaking towards the planet, we will have a government too broken to do anything about it.

  102. super anon*

    I’m writing my PMP test today! I don’t really feel prepared enough but I’ve been kicking the can down the road since February… so I may as well bite the bullet and try. Wish me luck!! :D

  103. DesertRose*

    Today an employee, Artemis, complained to me that another employee, Deandra, had an ultrasound picture posted in her cubicle. While I understand that such a picture could be triggering for someone who has experienced miscarriages or struggles with fertility, I don’t think it is inappropriate to have. One could easily argue that seeing a pregnant belly or baby pictures could be equally triggering. Or our nursing mother’s room could be triggering.

    I don’t want to be insensitive to Artemis. We have an open office plan, so even though Deandra has the photo tucked away on her desk in her 2-walled cubicle corner, it is able to be seen easily by people walking by if they happen to look in Deandra’s direction.

    Artemis likens the photo to being as inappropriate as a photo of a naked woman would be in a professional office environment. She did not mention miscarriages or infertility to me. Her argument was that we are looking at someone’s uterus.

    Readers of AAM, am I right to tell Artemis to “suck it up”? I did so already with as much tact as possible. Or should I ask Deandra to remove the picture or at least keep it somewhere more discreet, like in her drawer?

    1. AndersonDarling*

      I see it as a family photo. Will she have an issue when the baby is born and that photo is on display? I’d say “suck it up.”

    2. Snark*

      Artemis is bonkers and if she thinks that an ultrasound of one’s fetus is tantamount to displaying porn in your cubicle, somewhere a therapist just got the urge to buy a boat and does not know why.

      “Suck it up” is possibly the most polite and reasonable thing you could say to her and I suggest sticking to it.

    3. fposte*

      I’m intrigued to hear more about Artemis’s ideas for clothing embryos.

      Yes, you were right to tell her, with great kindness, to suck it up.

    4. Agatha_31*

      “Her argument was that we are looking at someone’s uterus.”

      What a… bizarre basis for a complaint. I mean if it was an actual photo of a uterus I can see how it’d be somewhat icky to people who are grossed out by that kind of thing, but it’s a bunch of squiggly black and white lines making up a vague blob inside another vague blob.

      Side note, I’ve never even been able to make out the baby when people show me those (though I always pretend I can because y’know, excited parent). But IMO it’s the Magic Eye of body pictures. You could tell me there’s a schooner in there and I’d just nod and smile and make vague “yes, you’re right” noises.

      1. Snark*

        The image was pretty good in our ultrasounds. Like, you could see a nose and fingers and little noodly appendages.

      2. Cruciatus*

        Like on Friends when Rachel was pregnant and she pretended to see it because she didn’t want the doctor to think she was a terrible mother. She then tearfully tells Ross “I don’t see it!”

      3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

        Hah, once at a baby shower we played a game where we were supposed to identify various bits of the baby in the ultrasound photo. I was wildly, crazily wrong on all of them. None of it seemed to have any recognizable form to me at all!

        I wonder if Artemis would have the same issue with, say, an x-ray of a broken hip. Because the argument seems to be that it’s an image of something vaguely in the neighborhood of genitalia.

        1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

          Maybe she thinks it would be more like a hip x-ray that also shows an IUD? So insides + revealing stuff about your reproductive status?

          (Copper IUDs are SO BRIGHT on x-rays. From: Things I learned by breaking my tailbone.)

      4. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

        At my 8 week ultrasound (just a quick one to rule out twins/ectopic/other things you want to know early), I couldn’t see anything. The midwife was all like “and there are the buds that will be legs…” and I was all like “Nope, don’t see it.” My husband swore he saw a tadpole-like thing.

        13 week ultrasound revealed a very alien-looking thing. Definitely had limbs. But beyond that? Nope. The print out pictures the tech gave us were definitely more images of an alien-fetus and less images of my uterus (that black space around the fetus was fluid–the fluid to fetus ratio is pretty darn high early on).

        21 week ultrasound actually looks like a human. What I found coolest was actually seeing things like the chambers of the heart and all that.

        I haven’t shared these pictures with anyone because *I* have the hang up of “These are pictures of my insides and that is weird and gross.” BUT I also think it is weird and gross that I am growing a human inside of me. So it is less about the image and more about “pregnancy is weird and gross and I wish we all just laid eggs.” (FWIW, I didn’t think pregnancy was gross until it happened to me.)

        But I still wouldn’t be bothered by someone else putting up a picture. I’d think it’s *weird* because it’s really not something I would do (no, I do not want to have yet another reminder of this gross physical process in front of me all the time, thanks. Early on, nausea and fatigue did that for me. Now, I have a hyperactive fetus that I am really worried will be a hyperactive child. I cannot forget it is in there.)

      5. strawberries and raspberries*

        I mean, I definitely am not really into the trend of ultrasound pictures either for the same reason, because even though it will eventually be a baby you are still looking at someone’s guts. (My boyfriend said his oldest niece looked like a “cheddar sculpture” when his sister-in-law posted ultrasound pictures.) But still, I hardly think it’s tantamount to pornography. If that were the case, nearly all talk of any pregnancy would have to be verboten because underneath it all you’re usually talking about people having sex.

        (Which incidentally is what I told my friend who was having difficulty conceiving to use in order to divert invasive questions about how soon she was going to have a baby- to yell out, “Are you asking me if I’m having sufficient amounts of sex with my husband?!!!”)

      6. Artemesia*

        I don’t know. When I saw the very early ultrasound of my new grandson — it was about 12 weeks — there was a very distinctive little head and nose etc — very human looking critter.

    5. This Daydreamer*

      So, we’re talking about a grainy, black and white image with something that sorta looks babyish and might also appear to have the face of Jesus or the FSM or maybe my car and she’s comparing it to pr0n? Seriously?

    7. Not So NewReader*

      One could also argue that it’s child porn because the baby is naked.

      I don’t think Artemis has basis to complain on behalf of everyone? Hopefully no one else has said anything and you could point out that she can look away from the picture.

      I guess I would tell her that it’s an MRI, not Playboy. It’s not likely that someone would get their “kicks” out of looking at the picture. Explain to her that picture was taken in a scientific, medical environment not a random studio. Then tell her it is reasonable to assume that the picture will come down in a little bit to make space for more recent baby pictures. You do not believe this is the hill to die on.
      I would land on that I will not keep discussing this with her.

  104. ValarDohaeris*

    A bit of a cultural question here. At my workplace, a junior teapot designer got “Socks of Shame” delivered to their desk by our producer for making a mistake. Our teapot producer said that the junior designer was to keep the socks until somebody else made a mistake. When I brought up this issue with our team leader, he said that it probably had been meant as a joke and that it wasn’t meant to hurt anybody (the junior designer was definitely upset). He even mentioned that back in a different job he had they would put dunce caps on people. This is my first job in the USA, and I’m not sure if this is a thing that’s acceptable to do here or not. I’ve been holding off on taking this to HR since I don’t want to get branded as the millennial snowflake that got triggered for no reason. Any thoughts?

    1. stitchinthyme*

      This is not an uncommon thing in my industry (software development). At my current job, there’s a figurine of a swordfish with a heart-shaped piece of paper that says “The Build” stuck through on the sword that gets passed to anyone who checks in a change that causes the build to break and leaves the building without fixing it. I had it on my desk for months before finally handing it off to someone else. And there have been similar things in my past workplaces as well — at one, it was a chess piece, and at another it was the “Ball of Shame”, one of those balls that light up when you bounce it. My husband, who is a sysadmin, has also told me about similar “you broke something” tokens that get passed around at his workplaces.

      We have always treated it as a joke. There’s no real stigma attached to it — everyone screws up every now and then, and it’s all been lighthearted. (I would probably object to a dunce cap, however. Keeping something on your desk and having to wear something are totally different.) But I mostly work with senior-level people, so thanks for the heads-up; in the future, I will definitely be aware of how this sort of thing can look to junior-level employees who haven’t been in several workplaces that have the same kind of custom.

      1. ValarDohaeris*

        I’m in a mid-level role at this company. I’ve worked as an intern/junior at other 3 companies in other countries and have never encountered anything like this before. To me, it seems like a broken system since there are way too many ways of validating code, data, and assets to avoid mistakes getting submitted to the build at all. Especially when you’re dealing with a live service. It personally infuriates me because we don’t invest much in training/mentoring our junior people, but we somehow can waste time in shaming them.

      2. Sam Carter*

        I worked in lab where we had a similar “oops you broke it” tokens that were more of a joke than anything serious. That said, no one ever forced it upon a junior employee/undergrad who might be embarrassed and we used it to lighten the mood and alert others who could be impacted.

        The object was a plastic brain from a Halloween store called “The Brain of Shame” (it was a neuroscience lab) and you were supposed to keep it on your bench after announcing the mistake. It didn’t really apply to anything serious, mostly small errors of forgetfulness like “oops I put tools in the autoclave but forgot to hit start” or “I forgot to save the image of my gel and now have to re-run it” or “I accidentally contaminated the BSC so don’t use it right now.” The brain of shame circulated between grad students frequently and was both a reminder to yourself to pay attention and a teaching tool for undergrads.

        I agree with stitchinthyme that it can be a fun joke if done properly, but the socks of shame seems a bit more harsh. It really depends on the overall culture and a power differential would certainly make it more awkward.

      3. nonegiven*

        Maybe I should suggest that to my son. The higher ups are wanting unit testing and Agile, things my son and another newish hire are used to, while the ‘old guard’ are really pushing back, saying they can test in production. Sounds like they might need the swordfish of shame.

    2. super anon*

      Woah. That’s very not okay, and I can totally see why your colleague is upset. It’s even worse that your Team Lead invalidated her totally acceptable feelings by bringing up the fact that his old employer made them wear dunce caps (side note – wasn’t there an AAM letter about that?).

      This is a very childish and demeaning way to treat someone for making a mistake. Mistakes are totally normal, and a good manager and would never do this. This is a surefire way to ensure that employees start hiding mistakes rather than bring them up for fear of being publicly ridiculed.

    3. LCL*

      Is this some kind of software job? In the US, software places have a reputation as tending towards the immature, with lots of conflicts caused by someone doing something that they thought was funny. I am in the US, and that would never fly here. I did very gently chide someone this morning about breaking equipment, but all present understood it was a joke and it wasn’t their fault anyway, they were just the person on site when it happened. I wouldn’t use that kind of humor outside of our limited group for fear someone would think I was serious and creating an atmosphere of blame.

      1. ValarDohaeris*

        Yes, it’s a tech job. The thing is also that my project has suffered from very low morale and we’ve lost many key members of the team over time because of the toxic culture, which is why I decided to bring it up. Before this, we also had an e-mail sent out to the whole company notifying that somebody made a submission that had a mistake in it. My train of thought is that we should just not let somebody submit a change if it contains a mistake and let the person know what’s wrong so they can fix it. I complained about the mass e-mail situation saying that it wasn’t constructive and was a waste of time for everybody. That did get toned down somewhat.

      1. Spider*

        That is probably my favorite AAM letter of all time. Dunce caps! In a professional office! Will never not blow my mind.

    5. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Maybe I am a delicate little snowflake but this makes me feel defensive and humiliated just reading it, and reminds me of all the bullying I experienced in school. Not cool, and I have never worked anywhere that this would be acceptable.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Me too. I think the ideal response is to say: that’s weird, and then put them in the bin.

      2. Windchime*

        We had a stuffed monkey that people had to hang on their cube if they broke the build. I always thought it was humiliating and unnecessary. They finally got rid of it. Maybe that kind of thing works in a healthy environment, but we were already feeling dejected and tense and stressed, so having a visible “you failed” sign on one’s cube wall just made things worse.

    6. EmilyG*

      Another vote for dysfunctional and weird–I”m not surprised that this is at a tech company. It seems like it could be funny in a work environment that is trusting, kind, and safe, but the bosses who instigate this kind of thing seem generally terrible at determining whether they’ve created such an environment.

      1. stitchinthyme*

        Does it make a difference if it’s not bosses who instigate it or participate in it? As I noted above, several of the workplaces I’ve been in have done stuff like this, but in none of those cases did management have any part in it — it was just a joke among the developers. I’m not sure management even knew about any of it, and I was never aware of anyone being uncomfortable with it. Like I said, I have had my share of having whatever the current “token of shame” is on my desk, sometimes even for months at a time, but it never bothered me.

        Note that I’m NOT saying the OP doesn’t have a valid complaint. It *is* kind of immature and unprofessional, and just because it doesn’t bother me doesn’t mean I don’t see why it would bother someone else. I just also think that context makes a difference. I would definitely take such a thing differently if management instigated it than if it was just something that got passed around between team members.

        1. ValarDohaeris*

          I do feel that it would be different if this had been done as an inside joke amongst close friends. The problem here is that it was done by a mid-level employee to a junior one (they are not friends). They reverted the checklist without notification and gave this person a pair of socks with “Shame” written over them instead of communicating. Plus said checklist had been reviewed/approved by a senior developer previously on top of it all.

          1. stitchinthyme*

            Yes, this does cross the line in my opinion. Every time I’ve encountered it, including at my current job, it’s done between people at the same level who know each other very well. And there’s never been anything with the actual word “shame” on it, either — it’s usually some kind of innocuous trinket (like the aforementioned swordfish in my office).

            Context always, always matters with stuff like this. Who delivers the joke object, how it’s delivered, and what the object is make a huge difference between harmless fun and shaming.

          2. Troutwaxer*

            Definitely inappropriate. If I worked at your company I would be looking for a new job now. And maybe with some harsh words for the team lead.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Oh, I think those socks would have something tragic happen to them. You know how workplaces can be, things get lost or ruined all. the. time. “Gee, I thought I was shredding a bunch of papers but the socks were in the middle of the pile and I did not realize until it was Too Late.” Or “Remember that odd dumpster fire two weeks ago? I think the socks where in the dumpster.”

  105. Bethany*

    How trustworthy are sites like Glassdoor when it comes to doing baseline research for salaries? Should I even be doing salary research before interviews?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I would definitely be doing salary research before an interview. Knowing what the market rate is for a particular position and how that employer stacks up against the market are both incredibly important pieces of information. I’m sure you have a number in mind that you’re targeting for your next salary, so knowing in advance if you can expect the employer’s range to match your range is super helpful.

      I think Glassdoor can be very helpful, so long as you take it as a broad stroke. Some of the salary ranges are enormous because that same job title can pay very differently across departments. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think all the salary data on Glassdoor is submitted by employees (or former employees) themselves.

      1. Bethany*

        As far as I know yes, the data comes from former employees, but even when I narrow it down to my actual location there’s only been one ~actual~ salary posted. I know what my range is and I know how low I’m going to go but I also feel very anxious about the data I see? It probably sounds silly, but when they don’t match my expectations or even my current salary it makes me feel like I’m not as excited about the prospect of interviewing with them. But also feel like I should take that salary data with a grain of salt?

        1. Not a Real Giraffe*

          I don’t think I’d skip the interview because of data on Glassdoor, but I would definitely use it to moderate my expectations. And I would definitely use it as motivation to ask the dreaded salary range question.

        2. JulieBulie*

          I would assume that this one posted salary is true for one person, but I would not assume that it’s typical or even that it’s indicative of the range, which might be very wide.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I believe they are accurate, but the data available is so variable depending on job title and location (US). I did one myself, although I wasn’t able to include bonus information – their setup didn’t allow for noting how the bonuses were derived and it was neither a fixed sum nor fixed percentage situation. I’m inclined to think that the salary numbers they provide include any bonuses too, not just base salary.

      Definitely do some baseline research to get a feel for what’s reasonable for the type of job you want in your location. But ideally you can ask what the range is for the position and see if it meets your expectations.

  106. Experience + Education = ?*

    I am halfway through a graduate program that is tangentially related to my day job, but very minimally. I’ve been out of school for almost a decade and am thinking about looking for work starting in early 2018. I will be finishing up my master’s degree in December 2018 if all goes as planned. How can I balance my experience and education in progress to determine what jobs I am actually qualified for? It seems like everything is either a hard overqualified or under-qualified.

    1. fposte*

      How related to your master’s path should the new job be, and will you be leaving it when you get your degree? Can you consult with student affairs in your program?

      1. Experience + Education = ?*

        I would prefer to stay in the job after graduation from the program provided that it pays fairly and provides a solid career path. Not sure what my options are for speaking with student affairs. I’ll have to look into it.

  107. circus peanuts*

    I was recently told that a co-worker has been trash talking me behind my back for months. What would you do? I tend to be passive aggressive and I would prefer to not go that route. I have never said anything about her behind her back but she has made several rude remarks to my face over the years that I have ignored before but I see now that might have been a mistake. The person who spilled the beans just wanted to give me a heads up and would probably not want to be dragged in to anything.

    1. fposte*

      I would ignore it unless it happens in front of me. You’re probably not the only person she talks trash about so I doubt people take it particularly seriously.

  108. Master Bean Counter*

    Ideas on how to handle frustration and a bad manager.
    Backstory Sportsball guy was hired in a position above me 6 months ago. Sportballs guy was originally supposed to be my boss. I like my job, I’ve really started growing in my job. My Boss has moved up and by some grace has not put sportball guy directly over me. Our department is about to reorganize.
    Problem: Sportsball guy is not picking up on basics in his job. My boss has me constantly helping this guy. This guy gets paid 50% more than me. He should be picking up on things by now. This week we both have important deadlines. I don’t have the time to help him. I’ve tried lobbing his things back to his side of the net. I’ve explained to my boss multiple times that I just don’t have time to deal with his issues. Yet, I’m still getting asked to help, and I am giving the help. Because if sportball guy doesn’t do his work I can’t finish mine.
    So how do I keep my sanity? Tips, tricks?
    Side note:
    I Also have no idea what this reorg that is coming means to me. But I have given suggestions, that are going to happen, about how to restructure the team that’s half officially under me and half unofficially under me. So at the very least I know good things are coming for parts of my team. If this restructure every happens.

    1. Althea*

      Lots of keeping boss in the loop and documentation – exactly what you are doing and Sportsball guy is doing, who should be doing it, and where balls are being dropped. You just want to make it very clear that you did everything you could do under the circumstances, and that the problems arose from Sportsball guy. If a larger disaster arises as a result of these problems, you want to be ahead of it and show you did all you could to be helpful up to the point of reasonableness with your own workload. Find ways to message this to your boss: “I got done X and Y. Sportball guy hasn’t responded on Z in order for me to move forward, and I don’t have time to help him for a few days. Do you have a suggestion for getting Sportsball guy to move on Z – other support if I can’t do it?”

  109. Laurel*

    I am looking to leave my job because I have the opportunity to run my own business. This is huge for me personally and gets me out of a fairly toxic work environment. However, my boss did a huge favor for me allowing me to work more remotely about 6 months ago. How can I be gracious as I leave knowing I’m leaving them in the lurch at a bad time?

    1. fposte*

      Write a nice note. Say a warm thank you. Leave documentation for your successor. You don’t owe them; just be professionally helpful and move on.

  110. Elizabeth H.*

    I had a recent idea that I should hold a series of workshops on phone anxiety reduction/practice making phonecalls for young people. I am 30 and I seem to know a lot of people who have so much phone aversion that it interferes with their life, like reticence to make phone calls to fix a problem with a prescription, make doctors’ appointments, work opportunities, and so forth. I have lots of ideas for techniques to reduce phone anxiety and get comfortable using the phone for various factors!

    I have a ton of other ideas for “old school skills, tips and tricks for young people” but wonder how many takers I would have.

    1. Ennigaldi*

      I’m 32 and I used to have phone anxiety – I always felt like I was being “put on the spot,” that I sounded too young, that I couldn’t articulate myself (leaving voicemails is still awkward). The only thing that got me over it was exposure, but that took until I was about 24. So I think this is a great idea, especially for college students/people just transitioning into full independence, because it not only boosts your confidence but it shows maturity to people older than you which can open doors!

    2. Emi.*

      I bet you would get a bunch, especially if you could get a local school’s career center to hire/host you. Also, make sure you allow online appointment booking! ;P

      1. Elizabeth H.*

        Ha!!! that is a great suggestion. I’m seriously thinking of trying to do something like this.

    3. rosiebyanyothername*

      This would be super popular at college career centers! I’m a youngun in the workforce (23 on Tuesday!) and I was asked in many interviews, very explicitly, if I was comfortable on the phone. It’s a big concern both for students and the people hiring them.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I am not so sure that phone anxiety is a new thing. When I first started working, 30 plus years I hated the phone. Why.
      I did not know the answers to even basic questions.
      I did not know what to say in general.
      I did not know what was reasonable and what wasn’t.
      I was afraid of dealing with crank calls.
      It bothered me to no end that everyone else seemed FINE with the phone.

      Now I hate the phone because the sound quality and the connections are so bad. “What, what, what…” ugh.
      I think that workshops on how to use a phone in a business setting is a great idea.

  111. Sy*

    I feel like I may be late to this thread since I’m on the west coast, but does anyone have any advice when your company is acquired by a much, much larger company? They are telling us we will all stay on and that no one is losing their jobs but….well how would you feel if you were told that? I understand that I had no assurances that I would keep my job anyway but I liked working for a small/medium sized company. Has anyone been through this and have any advice? Were you able to keep your job? Did your company culture change drastically? Should I be job hunting right now?

    1. Althea*

      I’ve had several friends and family members where this happened. For the people I know, it’s generally worked out fine without huge shakeups. It took forever for the new owner to sort out what they were doing, and once they did quite a lot stayed the same and there was little turnover or structural changes.

      I think it must depend on the strategy of the company doing the acquiring. You might want to find out what you can about their MO, although there’s no way to know for sure in any specific case. I’d be willing to bet you have a lot of time, though.

    2. Buu*

      In any uncertain situation it’s not a bad idea to prep, is your resume up to date? Do you have money saved in case something bad happens? Have you made sure to keep some holiday days available in case you want to leave and need to interview? Start scoping vacancies so you have an idea of the job market, right now you can have the leeway to apply for stuff only if you want to leave or progress your career otherwise stick it out and see if it works out.
      By prepping if you find you do need to leave sharpish then you’ll have a head start and will have had the chance to do all the scary job hunt prep in advance and you will also have a fairly decent reason to give to perspective new employers as to why you want to leave” my company got bought out and my job changed etc”.

    3. JulieBulie*

      I’ve been through this a couple of times. There are a lot of ways that it can play out, but in both of my experiences, it was a couple of years before the big changes started coming. And by that time, we had a pretty good idea of what to expect.

      However, “they are telling us we will all stay on” that’s what they all say. Don’t bank on it. Like I said, there’s a good chance that nothing will happen for at least a year, but that’s up to the bigger company. Regardless, they probably want all of you to stay put until the day they decide to get rid of you.

      Culture is another question. If the staff at your location becomes infused with staff from the bigger company, culture may shift. However, if not, and the big company’s culture isvery different than yours, than you’ ll all probably just be scratching your heads at the tone of some of the communications you get from them. Unless the bigger company is really aggressive about forcing people to drink the Kool-Aid, you and your coworkers probably won’t have to morph into other people.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Start looking around, for the sake of your own best interests.
      This saves all the drama of trying to guess what they really mean. You might find something that is better. You might find out that you are okay and you will stay put. This could go in any direction.

  112. Mona Lisa Saperstein*

    I’ve been interviewing for a position, and got a call this week from the hiring manager, who told me that I’m his #1 choice but because of budget issues he won’t be able to make me an offer for another month. I’m obviously applying to other places because, like, what guarantee do I have that these budget issues will be worked out in a month, but I’m curious as to whether I should take this as a bad sign in terms of my job security at this company even if I do get an offer? Also, has anyone else has ever been in this situation and had it work out for them (or not)?

    1. Elle Kay*

      Depends on the position and the ‘budget issue’ It’s odd to have a lack of salary budget in October since most companies set their annual budgets months ago. And if the opening is because someone left then you’d think that their salary was already secured…
      On the other hand, if this is -say- a research or lab based position here salaries are often grant funded then it might be a legitimate thing. Most of my research staff is on ‘soft money’ from grant funds and it can cause problems if a grant isn’t fully funded or if one gets delayed. (I have an awesome person I can’t move from halftime to fulltime until a grant comes in right now!)
      But grant funds are usually 1-year terms so there is some question if, at the end of the year, another grant will be available to keep paying them. For us, it usually works out, but I have had researchers leave because they couldn’t deal with the stress of “what if”

      1. Mona Lisa Saperstein*

        Hmm. It’s actually an entertainment company that has studios as clients, and I think they were/are planning on growing their team because they just landed some big projects, so it’s possible that they don’t have a budget for me until the promo cycles for those projects start and the money starts coming in? File under: questions I should have asked when I had the hiring manager on the phone / should definitely ask before I accept any kind of offer, lol.

        1. Buu*

          A lot of entertainment stuff is contract based so it may be that the reason they are hiring is to get extra staff for a potential new contract, but can’t actually hire anyone until that contract is signed and the client pays their first installment.

  113. Rikki Tikki Tarantula*

    I was going through my piles of paperwork at home, and I found my performance reviews (and my PIP) from the job I quit back in ’14. Do I need to keep these for any reason? Or can I shred them? I’m full-time freelance now and have no plans to go back to ToxicJob (or any similar job).

    1. paul*

      It’s internal paperwork from a job you left 3 years ago. You shouldn’t even need to ask; use it as firestarter. Or cleaning rags. Or shred it for a compost bin.

  114. DC*

    I’ve been really unhappy about work lately (I’ve posted some issues with Boss), and it doesn’t help that due to the education benefit I’m getting paid pennies while working 60hr weeks this month.

    But this week, my boss acknowledged that things have been off around here, and asked about how to make things better as a workflow, which means some of my frustrations may get slightly solved! This week felt much better than the others- less “omg take any job and get out,” and more “find the right thing cause this you can ride out for a little.”

    Still job hunting in the meantime!

  115. Althea*

    I have a coworker who is trying to butt in on my work. We’re the same position on different projects generally – teapot design finance managers. I manage 5 projects, she manages 3. But, she’s pretty interested in teapot design, and we need some program support on one of my projects, so she (is supposed to) contribute to the teapot design of this project.

    Ever since she started contributing, she’s also started doing finance things for it as well, even though I clarified in the beginning her role is design. She worked with another team member on a forecast, which utilized the wrong (old) version of a document, and in doing so she modified the template.

    Recently, when I received a forecast from another office, she emailed them directly asking them to do the forecast as she would have done it, in a very confusing email. Turns out, she had misread it and not noticed the forecast was in a different tab! She then criticized my methodology of putting it in a different tab… which is actually a best practice.

    When I asked her to send an email clarifying that she misread and doesn’t need them to do what she asked, she got incredibly snippy and said she had a bunch of things to do first. I commented that they will be confused by her email, could she just do a quick clarification. “I’ll do it later, okay?!” Because of her tone I decided not to address the broader pattern just then of why she was even asking them for financial things when it’s my job to do so.

    I’m now debating how best to address this. I decided I would alert my boss in our next 1:1, but in general I like to tell him what my strategy is. I’m not sure if I should talk with her directly first about separating duties to prevent confusion, especially considering our methodologies are different. I’ve always had a hard time communicating with her, as I find her overly emotional, and she often is short or interrupts me, and is dismissive of my reasoning instead of taking time to weigh pros and cons. We are peers, although I’m more senior in terms of longevity. If I meet with her, how should I start this conversation? What should I say? I’m also a little concerned that my annoyance at her will sneak in, when I need to focus on the impact – causing others confusion on our roles, and creating more work for me if she doesn’t things wrong or differently than I would.

    1. fposte*

      I would be more open-ended with your boss (who I presume is also her boss) rather than feeling the need to come up with a strategy. “Jane has been changing the templates and communicating with the clay people on finances, and I think it’s causing some confusion because I’ve been tasked with being point person for finances. Do you still want me to be the point person, and how do you want me to handle things with Jane?”

  116. 2 questions*

    1. At an interview, when you realize after a few questions you don’t want the job anymore, is there any way to excuse yourself from the interview, or do you just have to stick it out until the interviewer lets you go?
    2. A coworker who I got along with at first, and have hung out with outside of work and have had disagreement with in the past, has been making snide comments about my career goals (i.e., she thinks I’m aiming too high and makes it her job to take me down a notch whenever I complete a project related to my career goals), and I don’t know how to respond in a way that doesn’t make me come off as “oversensitive” or “full of drama.” She sits close by and everyone in the office thinks we’re each other’s best friend. How do I tell her to stop being a jerk without things ending up awkward for everyone?

    1. Althea*

      I might go with, “That’s a really unkind thing to say.” And just let it sit there and go back to what you’re doing.

    3. rosiebyanyothername*

      “Friends” who try to take you down a peg are the worst. Next time she tries it, say, “I’m proud of my work on this project, Jane” and leave it at that. Especially if no one else is participating in her snide commentary, it will make her look even worse when everyone is refusing to engage.

    4. JulieBulie*

      1. “Thanks so much for your time, but it sounds like I’m really not the person for this job.”

      2. In a sincere tone: “Do you really think so? I’d like to hear more.” Or: “We’ll see.” Or: don’t respond.

  117. Ennigaldi*

    Hi everyone, I’m in my first job in the Bay Area and have occasionally come up against some…cultural differences here. So this is a “is this weird to you” question:

    The other day I got an all-staff email from HR announcing that “by popular demand” they were going to bring in a psychic on Halloween to do tarot card readings all day in one of the conference rooms. Half an hour later, I got a follow-up saying that all the time slots have been taken, so apparently everyone is into this. I don’t know exactly what my thoughts are on it, because this isn’t really religious unless you count general spiritualism as a religion. But why can’t we just have optional costumes and a little one-hour party like normal offices?

    1. Althea*

      I’m always amused by tarot readings. I had a deck in college, and I would do some readings for people. I would tell them up front I was making it all up and that it was BS. When doing the readings, I would point to the symbolism on the cards and say, “The pentacles are a feminine symbol, and you can see the expressions on the face of the woman is troubled. It seems you’ve had issues with a woman recently.” (Like, what hetero male has not?)

      People would tell me I was amazingly accurate and that I had talent and was so good at talking them through their problems. Ever since, I’ve always taken it as a reminder that people can be really dumb, and a little desperate for validating voices on their problems.

      But the readings can be totally fun to do!

      1. Amber Rose*

        I collect tarot decks because I like the art. I take the readings about as seriously as those dollar operated fortune telling machines you used to find in arcades, but they’re pretty fun.

      2. Natalie*

        Yeah, I did tarot readings in high school, and it wasn’t until some years later that I realized I was basically just doing some untrained cold reading. People loved it, though – I even got paid a few times!

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      That’s not a Bay Area thing. I’ve been working here for almost two decades in various workplaces.

    5. Teapot Jeffries*

      I’d prefer a tarot reading to a traditional office Halloween party, but that’s just me. I have a deck of tarot cards I bought back in college; they’re fun. As long as you don’t get the Ten of Swords (which means ruination).

    6. paul*

      I’d be a little weirded out. About the extent of it.

      I might cheekily ask if I could have however long they were doing those sessions for as an an addendum on my lunch break though.

    7. McWhadden*

      I have exactly zero faith in psychics or tarot card readings. But if my office were willing to pay for one I’d definitely do it for laughs. I think it’s kind of cool as long as it isn’t mandatory (which it seems it isn’t.)

      It’s a little weird but I’d love it a lot more than a costume or candy.

    8. Ann O.*

      To me (also Bay Area) this is cool. I see it more as entertainment than anything else. I’m not sure where the religion or even the spirituality comes in, especially since the Tarot readers I know are pretty open that they’re using their intuition/cold reading.

      But mostly, I’m unclear on what you’re asking beyond a general is this weird. Is there something about this that bothers you, even though it sounds completely optional? If so, what?

  118. Kate*

    So, I’m in the weird position of actively helping a valuable member of my team find a new job. It sucks because she’s really great but it’s only a part time position and we’re paying her peanuts. So, I’m helping her network while knowing that I’m basically shooting myself in the foot, but it’s the right thing to do. I know she’ll end up leaving eventually, so I guess this way I have a decent amount of notice?

    1. Althea*

      Frankly, this will pay so many dividends down the road. People don’t forget when you’ve supported them like this. Stay in touch with her – she’s great, so you know she’ll be going places – and you never know when she’ll connect you with some great new opportunity yourself.

  119. TooLoyal*

    I’ve been with the same company for about 8 years. When I say a company, think 8 employees, 1 owner, coffee/beer type industry –perhaps not the norm here (new AAM reader, so I’m not completely sure!). I started as at the lowest position offered and now I’m basically the owner’s right-hand man, whether he wants to see it that way or not. He goes on a couple extended trips yearly where I take over all wholesale accounts, delivering to clients and anything else that should come up. It’s a huge responsibility and one that would take a bit of time to train as we have over 30 wholesale accounts we tend to weekly.

    I had a frank discussion with him over the summer where I told him how much I loved my job and enjoy working with him. We really do get along great, in fact, maybe too great. I think our relationship has a VERY blurred line and he see’s me as a friend more than an employee. I was young when I started working with him and eight laters, I am maturing and beginning to understand the importance of a more professional type relationship. Anyway, in short, I told him honestly during one conversation that I was looking for other jobs not because I did not want to work for him, but because the pay was so abysmal I barely made enough to pay rent each month with nothing left over. I understand maybe this was not been the best approach (and this is not what I’m looking for advice on, still getting to that!) but it was honest and that is the type of relationship we’ve had for 8 years. There are no more responsibilities I can oversee in the company, I’ve overtaken them all and I do a fantastic job. Our market is saturated with other competitors which have hurt our sales. There was recently an article that we have the highest amount of (blank) shops per capita in the entire country. He used to be the big boy in town and is now competing along with 30 others. He told me he has no money in the budget to pay me a cent more unless we get more wholesale clients.

    I have continued looking for other jobs since we had our conversation. I have an interview on Monday for a position that has potential to pay really well (read: above the poverty line) and coincide with something I have been very interested in learning more about for a very long time.

    Now, nothing is set in stone — I understand very well I may not get this job at all. If I do though, the timing of it will line up with one of his yearly trips where I basically take over his job. This position will be Monday-Friday, 9-5 and I will be unable to help him out whatsoever. After 8 years and being in a position that takes a long time to train – what would be the best course of action to take IF I do get this job?

    Tell my prospective employer I cannot start until X date (more than a month and a half away, eeeeek) and risk losing the opportunity all together? Tell my now boss “Sorry, I told you if I’d have to look for other jobs if we couldn’t work something out & I understand the timing sucks, but I have to leave by X date?” And leave him high and dry?

    I have been so worried about this I’m having a really hard time even prepping for the interview. Any advice or slaps back to reality would be greatly appreciated!

    1. Graciosa*

      The rules are consistent (at least in the U.S.) – 2 weeks notice is all you have to give. It doesn’t matter if you’ve been there 1 year or 20 years.

      Your employer / friend is treating you as if he is running a business when he talks about your salary. That’s fine – he is. When it comes to business, he behaves accordingly – regardless of how well you get along.

      Why would you do anything else?

    2. Rose*

      I think it’s great that you’re concerned about what will happen when you leave — that means you’re a conscientious employee! But if you get a better offer, having communicated clearly that you are looking/would need more money to stay, then I think you’re in the clear to take the new job, even if the timing stinks for your current boss. Maybe you could offer to work a few nights and/or weekends to get a new person up to speed? That’s totally up to you, though. You’re not obligated to.

      The other thing to keep in mind is that hiring timelines are almost always long and extended. Even if you do get this job, it might not be for weeks or until next month, in which case you could give your two weeks notice AND work during your boss’ trip. In the interim, as you look, is there anyone in your org now you can start cross training?

    3. McWhadden*

      You are a good person. But, ultimately, there really is nothing you could do. Asking for a month and a half out start date isn’t very reasonable. And, more importantly, if you can start earning enough to have more than rent money you should start doing that as soon as possible.

      I would be super stressed about it too. You aren’t crazy for feeling that way. But you can’t put your life on hold unreasonably for his extended trip. It’s not fair to you.

      Also, I don’t see anything wrong with your previous conversation with your boss. Maybe it was a little informal. But it means your boss has the head’s up that this could happen. And has chosen not to start training people for that inevitability.

      Ultimately, this is all on him.

  120. Bad Candidate*

    I have an interview Monday morning that was set up via a staffing firm. The recruiter told me that this is not a call center job, but does have some phone work. However, there’s a review I found on Indeed that says that it is a call center job. Which I don’t want at all, and I specifically told the recruiter that. What questions should I ask on Monday to get to the truth? Assuming that I don’t see the work area itself. Thanks!

    1. JulieBulie*

      I think I would ask straight out, “is this a call center job?”
      Or maybe more gently, “what kind of phone work is involved? What are the non-phone duties?”

    2. Not Today Satan*

      Ask about how many calls you’d answer (or call) a day and what percentage of your time would be on the phone.

    3. JN*

      That kinda stinks. I had something similar happen to me when I was looking for teaching jobs. I was upfront with the HR people at the district level that I was looking for classroom jobs and nothing special ed (I wasn’t trained in nor comfortable with that area). Got offered an interview for a job that was half-and-half of two different things, where “para” was mentioned as one part–which is short for “paraprofessional” and is often how special ed teachers/helpers are identified. I asked if it was special ed and was told the position was not, so I accepted the interview invitation. During the interview, I learned that in fact the para part was in special education. I seem to recall saying that I wasn’t trained or interested in that type of position and wouldn’t have agreed to interview if I’d known that was what it involved (and I think I also mentioned my attempt to clarify over the phone before the interview). Don’t recall now if the rest of the interview continued or if we all mutually called it quits a bit early. I’m sure I felt a bit irritated to have wasted time and gas going to the interview when I had tried to find out in advance if the job was in line with what I wanted or not and been misled.

      I would think that at some point during the interview you could bring up the Indeed review and ask if it accurately describes this company/job and see what they say. A good interviewer will give you a tour around the area where you’d be working so that would also give you information.

      1. Bad Candidate*

        Yeah I’m hoping I get a tour or even sit with someone at some point. But I’ve been on plenty of interviews where there was neither, so I want to be prepared if that doesn’t happen. And if someone is lying, I want to know what to ask to get to the truth if they try to dance around it.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      Ugh. I ended up on a bait-and-switch call center interview once, which was advertised as “customer service” and mentioned answering the phone, not making phone calls. Luckily the interviewer made it clear that it was a call center and I said thanks but no thanks. So yeah, they’ll lie, in their ads and maybe even to the recruiter. Was there only one review that said it was a call center job? Is it possible this organization, and even this position, varies enough that the recruiter might have been telling you the truth?

      1. Bad Candidate*

        It’s not a huge place and there were only a handful of reviews between Indeed and Glassdoor. They were all either glowing 5 stars or 1 or 2 stars, nothing really in the middle. Which also makes me wonder. There was only one that said it was a call center though. It’s possible that was for a different job, but it sounds like what I’ve been told about it. Recruiter was supposed to send me the job description, but hasn’t yet. I’m meeting with her to prep after work though. (Though the recruiter that told me it wasn’t call center is a different one.)

      2. Rainy*

        We’re seeing a trend here recently where a job is posted as “consulting” and turns out to be sales.

  121. Thornus67*

    I have a question about an old employer. Just curiosity.

    The job didn’t have time off, so if you missed a day (or the office was closed), you were docked a day’s pay. It was bad, but I quit. We were also paid on the 15th and 30th/31st of each month. Anyway, one year, I took a few days off around Christmas/New Year’s. The boss usually paid our bi-monthly salary in full on the 15th then made any adjustments for missing days on the last paycheck of each month. She didn’t this time. That December, I was paid for the full month despite missing some days. Come the end of January, though, she made adjustments so that I was docked those days in the second JANUARY paycheck.

    When tax time came, she issued tax forms with one pay for the previous year without making the December adjustments. When the next year’s tax forms were issued, my total pay reflected the December 20xx adjustments taken out of the January 20xx+1 paycheck. Tax wise, how should those adjustments have been made since I realized income in 20xx that was then taken away (for work missed in 20xx) in 20xx+1?

    1. nonegiven*

      I think your W2 is supposed to say what you were paid during the year, not what you worked for.

    2. Natalie*

      US federal income taxes are determined on a cash basis, so when you actually receive the money is what dictates which year it is taxed in. So no, she should not have adjusted your W2 that way.

  122. Epsilon Delta*

    So I had to take off work to take my spouse to the doctor for a minor medical procedure this week. My coworkers are very over-sharey and we all have a very friendly relationship so it would be totally normal to say “oh he’s having X procedure.” I decided to just say he’s having “a procedure” and not go into details. It worked great! Most people just said they hope it goes well/hope he is ok and then moved on. One person asked what was wrong (not to be nosy but out if concern) but accepted when I said “oh nothing major.” So I hope this serves as inspiration to people who feel like they need to provide more information than they are comfortable with. Most reasonable people will pick up your gentle cues that you don’t want to share, if not the first time then the second time.

  123. rosiebyanyothername*

    How do I cope with my own personal jealousy towards a coworker? He was tapped for an overseas business trip and I wasn’t. I know it’s petty as hell, but it’s not helping that he’s been rubbing everyone’s faces in it all day, with lots of water-cooler conversations about booking his flights, etc etc. I’m planning on trying to nudge my supervisor in a more positive way when I next speak to my supervisor, i.e. “I’m really interested in traveling to see some of our Teapot Vendors in the future, how could I get some more information on those opportunities?”, but right now, I’m just a green-eyed monster…. how do I deal in the short-term?

    1. Amber Rose*

      Make up some reasons why it’ll probably suck. (Just don’t share them with anyone, they are for you.)

      The weather will be awful.
      The hotel will be dirty and have a funky smell.
      The flights will be full of screaming babies.
      The airline will lose all the luggage.
      The food is disagreeable.

      Etc.

      1. Synonymous*

        You forgot the flights will be delayed, by hours, after the plane has boarded, so they’re sitting on the tarmac, and they can’t run the air conditioning, and the person in front of him just had a large meal of something disagreeable.

    2. Rick Tq*

      For now think about some of downsides to overseas travel:
      – TSA and the overseas equivalents. I had a pair of square-end wire cutters (not pointed) to be able to deal with my daughter’s braces that USA security passed in my carry-on but Australian security confiscated.
      – Jet Lag
      – Hotel beds
      – Dealing with misbehaving tourists at your destination (from any country)

    3. PX*

      As someone currently sitting at an airport waiting to fly back home:
      – missing out on part the weekend
      – catching a cold on the way there and being sick and miserable in an unfamiliar location!
      – not bringing the right clothes and being too hot/too cold/not waterproof enough for wherever he’s going
      – being stuck in the middle seat in economy

  124. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

    I’m late today, but I have a question for those who have changed careers after returning to school as an adult. I’ve worked in supply chain for 12 years and now am in school for accounting. How do you actually start working in your new field? Do non-traditional students do internships? Right now, I’m still working in supply chain to put myself through school, but I’d like to get experience.

    1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      My sister just recently graduated with her masters’ in organizational psychology, and got an internship in HR. After that was finished, they hired her on full time.

    2. Elle Kay*

      This might be a little odd but I’ve recently seen a lot of my local churches looking for some very basic bookkeeping help. Looking for something like that might (?) be a useful resume builder, with some pay, but without needing a substantial amount of time dedicated to it?

    3. Beth Anne*

      I’d def. look into getting a bookkeeping job. There are a lo of temp agencies that can help you with this. The problem is the pay is probably lower than what you are making now.

    4. Natalie*

      I also changed careers into accounting, but I got my accounting job before I went back to school.

      What kind of degree are you getting (associates, bachelors, masters)? In most areas, there’s high demand for entry level accounting people and if you are getting a bachelors in particular you should be qualified for many staff accountant jobs.

      Your school will probably have career fairs periodically that you can check out and, as you get closer to graduating, apply for jobs at.

      There are a lot of accounting & finance staffing firms that do direct placement. As you get closer, you can connect with a couple of external recruiters as well.

      Just a personal opinion, but assuming you’re going to be an older than typical graduate I would avoid Big 4 public accounting. As far as I can tell from my classmates, their ideal employee is 24 with no responsibilities and unlimited energy, and they work those kids to death for a few years. But YMMV – for certain subfields, you really should put in some time in public accounting.

        1. Ledgerman*

          I’ve worked at a Big 4 for about 15 months now, and this has not been my experience. I’m in audit, not tax, and I would say the tax people work a bit more – but generally speaking, if you’re ever working 70 hours weeks, something has gone terribly awry.

          YMMV depending on firm, city, and even team culture, but my office has a decent chunk of non-traditional students who were hired (myself included) and a big focus on work/life balance.

    5. Ledgerman*

      I’m a fairly recent graduate, non-traditional, now work in public accounting (just got my CPA!). Definitely do an internship! Maybe more than one! Depending on your goals post-degree, this can be more valuable than bookkeeping work. If you are interested in public accounting, it’s practically essential to intern.

      I took a longer term (they wanted minimum one year) internship that ended up being a 3 year stint whilst in school, with breaks to do recruiting and internships at the firm I now work for. That led directly into a full time job offer. I have never seen (nor would accept) an unpaid internship in the accounting field, so while you will likely make less than you do in supply chain, it’s a temporary pay cut to move into a new field. For what it’s worth, my long-term internship paid a minimum of $15/hr, and my short-term internship with the firm I now work for paid over $20/hr.

  125. Emily*

    I work with a woman, T. T was hired at the same level as my two coworkers and I, and was supposed to help alleviate our workload. It turns out T is really poorly suited for the job and has not improved in the year+ she’s been here. She’s been moved around to different tasks, but has shown little ability in any of these areas, even in those she pitched herself as an expert in when hired. So now our team still has the overwhelming workload from before, plus a team member that requires a ton of assistance.

    That would be bearable, but T also has the habit of butting in to conversations with our boss or vendors, providing incorrect information or taking credit for ideas or projects she did not develop. It’s really frustrating and annoying, and she becomes extremely hurt and teary if you try to address the problem head on. I deal with it by not spending much time with her, and I think the rest of the team takes the same strategy.

    However, a few weeks ago we attended a week-long training together and, because she tends to wear on the nerves, it was hard not to exclude her at times. I also REALLY don’t like social bullying or making someone feel unwanted, so I had an awful week struggling with my own desire to not deal with this person, but also this compulsion not to make her feel like an outcast.

    I think we did an ok job, but it was really stressful and I feel this same stress in the office: I don’t want to spend time with her, but don’t want her to feel excluded, although I find her very wearing on the patience. Any advice on how to deal with this? I don’t like Mean Girl stuff, but for my sanity I can not spend too much time with T!

    1. Althea*

      I think this is a boss problem – why is your boss not addressing the problems? It sounds like she is a real drain on your team and needs to be transitioned out, whether to a new role or just let go.

      In terms of dealing with it short-term, I’d say to keep in mind that her work and her self are not the same. It sounds like she is in a bad fit job. I’d try to be fairly warm in a social context, while feeling free to critique her work or disagree when she says something wrong to a vendor. The warmth over the water cooler can go a long way to keeping the relationship on the level even if you think her work stinks.

  126. Queen of Cans & Jars*

    As I commented on another thread above, I’m an hour away from laying off a truly terrible long-term employee, and I’m so nervous! She’s been here 10 years, and has been pretty awful at least the last 5, but has been allowed to run rampant. I mean, it’s been addressed here and there, but this woman will not admit ever having done anything wrong EVER, so managers pretty much get worn out and give up. I can’t even count the number of people who have walked out because of her (these are all unskilled production workers, so they don’t tend to stick around very long anyway, but she definitely accelerated the process). I’ve been here 2 years (HR), and have been actively trying to get some action taken on her, and the best I was able to do was get her laid off due to a downturn in our workload. Her manager is good at keeping things to the point, but I’m still obsessing over all the ways it could go. I’m trying to just keep focused that in 2 hours, it’ll all be done, and everyone here can finally breathe a sigh of relief.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Good luck! Do something nice for yourself after – splurge on a fancy coffee or tea or something.

    2. Artemesia*

      People don’t have to ‘admit to doing things wrong’ to be fired. What a bunch of loser managers. Hope it goes well. Why does it take 2 hours. Things don’t need to be explained in detail.

      1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

        The 2 hours was because we wanted to wait until production was done for the day & the rest of the folks had cleared out. She pretty much was like, “Yep, fine, see ya, losers!” Which was fine, all things considered. I’m looking forward to how much lighter the atmosphere will be on Monday!

  127. overeducated*

    I think I am in the position of being a Bad Person by AAM standards. Anyone want to help me out of this thicket of morality tangled up with opportunity?

    The situation: I’m on a contract with about 10 months left on it. Spouse is looking for a full time academic job that would start at the same time my current contract ends. I applied for a government job a couple months ago and, shockingly, got a verbal offer for it this week. It’s really not a dream job (all the bureaucracy, little of the fun stuff), but it would be a good foot in the door and a stable income for another few years. If the paperwork goes through I could start in December.

    Said yes to the verbal offer because the hiring manager wanted to get the formal offer paperwork started ASAP, but…I’m not sure. See, spouse has a interview for a tenure track job in a place we’d strongly consider settling down, but the interview’s a week away. We would choose this particular permanent job over this particular government job, but not ANY permanent job he could get, because location matters.

    So right now the bad thing I’m doing is letting this offer go forward when there’s the real possibility I will leave in 8 months. Spouse doesn’t have an offer yet and of course it’s not guaranteed he could get one someplace we want to live, and government jobs right now are so few and far between that I probably won’t get another offer in the next year. (People I’ve talked to in government back me up on this one.) So right now I am telling myself if spouse does get a verbal offer before the formal offer comes through for mine, I’ll apologize profusely to the hiring manager and withdraw, but if the formal offer comes through first…I guess I have to either accept the job, give notice, start, and keep my potential leaving plans secret, or tell the hiring manager and probably lose the offer. Should I keep my mouth shut or be honest and lose out?

    1. Elle Kay*

      Keep your mouth shut.
      Don’t count your chickens before they hatch. A bird in the hand, etc etc.

      But, seriously, if your husband hasn’t even interviewed yet then you should continue to move ahead. I actually just recently hired a woman who was in a similar position; her husband got a tenure track position at a local University and they moved from the West Coast to East Coast. She’d been employed only intermittently and parttime for almost 18 months before we brought her on board.
      But here’s the thing: her husband has an “in-demand” PhD. She told me that about 2/3 of the places he interviewed at had a completely different interpretation of his degree -and research/professional interests and background- than what he was actually looking for. They just wanted they title. He ended up turning down a few offers that had seemed great on paper because the actual interviews (and, in a couple cases, the atmosphere on campus) were a total disconnect.
      You don’t say what your husbands background is so this may not be an issue but it’s worthwhile to keep in mind that many colleges are looking for something very specific and/or to fill a gap in their current faculty competencies which he might not end up fitting into.
      Last, as a former-government employee: YES, getting through that door and even getting an interview is HARD so don’t count on another soon if you do choose to let this one go.

      1. overeducated*

        His background for this job is a close enough fit that we know 2 of the other finalists are currently in his old department, which is one of about 3 schools in that specializes in one particular type of research and training…but that also makes the competition seem tougher, because we know how good the people there are! No guarantees, you’re absolutely right.

        I guess another part of the conflict is knowing that I have exactly enough time on my contract to stay in this job until he would start something new, so I’d have a 2 year stint, whereas if I leave now and then have to leave again, I’ll have 1 year and 8 months, and that’s getting into job hopper territory. Staying seems safer in that sense. (Just not in the sense of what if he doesn’t get this job and the others he could get aren’t in places we want to live.)

        Thanks for responding, it helps me feel better about this very imperfect seeming course of action.

    2. Rose*

      I think AAM’s advice is usually to proceed as if the other offer won’t materialize. You have no idea what will happen with your husband’s interview next week. You have an offer in hand. I say go for it. People’s spouses moving is something that happens, and I think reasonable people understand that you don’t always have control over it.

      1. overeducated*

        I hope so! I hope that’s also a good enough reason to look like a job hopper, which I would if I left that quickly…thanks for responding, I know withdrawing from offers or job hopping is bad practice so I appreciate the perspective that proceeding may be the best I can do right now.

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Hmm, this is interesting.

      I am firmly of the belief that it is wrong to accept a job when you are planning to leave within a short period or continue to look for other jobs (just as it would be wrong for the company to hire you while continuing to search for a better candidate, or without telling you that they are planning to relocate to a different part of the country in two months or whatever).

      It seems like the question here is how we should treat job searches by spouses. If you were interviewing for the tenure track job, I’d say that you need to either be up front with the government job and ask for some time to decide or turn down the government job because you’d rather pursue the tenure track job. (IMO, it is unethical to essentially lie to the government job in order to preserve the possibility of accepting the tenure track job.) I’m not sure how it changes things that it’s your spouse with the other interview rather than yourself.

      1. Elle Em (changing my name since there are two Elles on today)*

        I agree with Elle Kay – keep your mouth shut. And if it’s a federal job… I wish you the best of luck getting that to go through; they’re on a hiring freeze. It takes months to get clearance anyway, even if they weren’t on a hiring freeze. Hell, non-federal government jobs also usually take time to be processed and you don’t know what will happen. Things will work out as they should. :)

        1. Elle Em (changing my name since there are two Elles on today)*

          Oops, I meant to reply to the main thread, not this one! :( Sorry about that!!!

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      So right now the bad thing I’m doing is letting this offer go forward when there’s the real possibility I will leave in 8 months.

      There’s also a real possibility you won’t.

  128. Kangaroo*

    I have a colleague who is senior to me. I’ve been at this company for 3 months.
    Whenever we have a call she talks over me and really only listens when she asks a question ( and even then she sometimes cuts me off half way when she thinks she has her answer). It’s not just me, she talks through about 85% of meetings regardless of who else is on it. What can I do to stop this behaviour? I’d like to nip it in the bud but I’m a bit lost on this one

    1. fposte*

      If she does it to everybody, you’re not likely to be able to outright stop this behavior. What consequences are you seeing aside from the annoyance factor? Can you follow up by email to document the information she should have?

      1. Kangaroo*

        So that wasn’t the whole story, just the main piece lol

        I am leading a project in Europe and she hired someone to run part of the project without letting me or anyone the stakeholders know. I let that go and set up a status update meeting. Except she acts like she knows everything about the project and won’t let me give the update. Typical convo:
        Jane: we need to make sure all teapot types are in the system
        Me:I had them uploaded-
        Jane:and soon this is a critical step
        Me:yeah I’ve already-
        Jane: and then we need to……

        1. fposte*

          Definitely annoying–but again, what were the consequences of this? That’s the information that guides your action. For instance, does this mean New Hire didn’t get to hear stuff she needs to do the project? Then consider connecting directly with New Hire after you finish the meeting.

          1. Kangaroo*

            No Im not able to do my work because I now need direction from her for the next steps, but she goes back to stuff Ive already done. I have tried connecting with the new hire too but it seems shes micro managed and wont make any decisions on her own

            1. fposte*

              Okay, can you email her in followup and say “We didn’t get to these questions in the meeting. What do you want me to do about A? When do you want the paperwork for B? Who should I ask about C?”

              1. Kangaroo*

                That’s a good workaround, isn’t there anything I can say in the meeting though? Or perhaps to her separately so I don’t have to email when we should be discussing everything with the whole team there?

                1. fposte*

                  Truthfully, I think if there were a way to make a person who’s talking through 85% of meetings stop, it would have happened by now.

                  However, you could try: “I have three things to get through, and then I’m ready for questions. First, upload the teapot specs”
                  Jane: “blahblahblahblah”
                  You: “Hang on, Jane, I gotta get through my three!”

                  (In your example it sounds more like you can’t get a word in edgewise when she’s bringing something up, though, and that’s even harder to combat.)

        2. nonegiven*

          Change:
          >Jane: we need to make sure all teapot types are in the system
          Me:I had them uploaded-
          Jane:and soon this is a critical step
          Me:yeah I’ve already-
          Jane: and then we need to……

          To:
          >Jane: we need to make sure all teapot types are in the system
          Me:DONE
          Jane:and soon this is a critical step
          Me:DONE
          Jane: and then we need to……
          Me:DONE

  129. MegaMoose, Esq.*

    Not so much a question as a rant: I live and work in a mid-sized city on the 45th parallel (that is, fairly north). I work in an open office with 10-30 other people, depending on the project. The office opens at 6:30 am, but start times are flexible and I usually come in around 9. Starting a few weeks ago, I noticed that the lights would often be off in our room when I came in. It seems that of the two people who were consistently first in, one of them likes the lights off. The person who turned the lights on most mornings left the project, and apparently everyone who got in later just rolled with it.

    It wasn’t as big a deal when the weather was nicer, as the room has a giant wall of east-facing windows – I got in the habit of switching the lights on when the sun moved behind the building late in the day. But it’s gotten really absurd as the equinox passed and we’ve moved into mid-autumn. I feel like this big jerk, showing up and turning on the lights after people have been in for hours working in the dark, but I’m positive that most people are neutral or would prefer the lights on. I asked my project manager if he would turn on the lights when he got in and he agreed, but that only lasted a couple of weeks.

    I know I need to get a thicker skin and just not let it bother me, but it feels like I’m violating some social norm when a dozen full grown adults are willing to sit in a dark room because the person who gets in first likes to work in a cave (her word, not mine). It was snowing this morning and I lost it a little bit when I showed up and there’s my PM and a half-dozen other people, all sitting in the dark. I’m extra embarrassed to say it turned into a little bit of a public argument and I ended up crying in the bathroom. Sigh. I just hate feeling like the bad guy here and wish someone had my back.

    1. fposte*

      Oh, I’m sorry; winter dark is tough. Can you expand on how this turned into an argument? Is it that people are pushing back about having the lights on or you just don’t want to be the person always turning the lights on?

      If it’s the latter, I think you may just want to find a way to accept this as being an okay thing to be rather than being frustrated that other people aren’t doing it. I don’t think it necessarily means that they don’t have your back; the lights being on just doesn’t matter as much to them.

      1. Sualah*

        Yeah, I agree with fposte here. I would personally have a slight preference for it being darker, so why, if you’re not here yet, would I turn the lights on? But I don’t care if, once you’re here, the lights do get turned on.

        So as long as they aren’t pushing back, I don’t see anything wrong with waiting until you get there for the lights to be turned on.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

          If it were just one person working in the dark until more people showed up that would be fine, but it’s when no one else turns on the lights that it gets to be ridiculous. I know I need to just suck it up. Part of why this whole situation is so frustrating is that I have a preference for natural light too. Just, you know, there needs to actually be *light* for that to work.

      2. MegaMoose, Esq.*

        It was really my fault that it escalated, I was just frustrated because of how dark it was (snowing!) and that my manager hadn’t turned the light on when he got in. It basically went like this:
        Me: Come on guys! It’s so dark!
        Bat Person no 1: It’s soothing!
        Me: Maybe you could wear a bag over your head?
        BP1: *looks indignant*
        Me: I’m sorry, that came across wrong. I meant like a hood or something?
        Bat Person no. 2: Maybe you should get a desk lamp?
        Conflict-Adverse Manager: *sheepishly* I was going to turn them on at noon.
        Me: *loses patience* Well, do we need to take a vote on it?
        Conflict-Adverse Team Members: *look awkward*
        Me: Fine. *turns lights off again, goes to bathroom to cry like a thin-skinned wimp*

        1. fposte*

          Aw, that’s not a fun start to the day!

          But it sounds like you feel weird about doing this without buy-in and the message you’re getting is nobody is invested enough to care about buy-in. I think it’s less of a personal issue and more like zeroing out the leftover time on the microwave. Just do it because it’s obviously the right thing to do but no one else can handle the challenge, and move on.

          (I liked the idea of working with a bunch of people with bags over their heads but couldn’t figure out how that blocked the light as long as they were allowed to have eyeholes. It’d be more entertainingly creepy if they didn’t, though.)

          1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

            Yeah, they’d really need some sort of blanket that covered their head and computer monitors. I hear what you’re saying about buy-in, though. That’s a good way to think about it. As it happens, I ended up venting to the office manager, who talked to my project manager, who is going to send an email to the team and personally apologized about not turning the lights on this morning as we’d talked about. He’s a good guy, just, well, conflict adverse. I’ll be the bad guy for a while longer, then hopefully all will chill out.

            1. fposte*

              Is it possible that doing it doesn’t make you the bad guy anywhere but in your head? Bat Person likes it dark but that doesn’t mean she’s upset about not always getting what she wants. I do all kinds of things when I’m in the office alone that I wouldn’t do when other co-workers are there, but I don’t begrudge them their normal standards.

              1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

                Yeah, I’m pretty sure that 90% of this is in my head. It’s a scary place sometimes. I really do appreciate the reassurance, though.

            2. KAG*

              Hmmmm… chill out…. are you suggesting you’d compromise for turning the lights on by letting me leave the door open to enjoy the 40 degree weather? I could handle that!

        2. LCL*

          This is definitely a northern latitudes thing. I am laughing so hard reading this, that everybody is so conflict averse in your office. Here, there wouldn’t be any question about people’s opinions on the lights.
          My vision is poor enough that I have pushed hard on this very issue. As long as the lights are working correctly and not flickering excessively, when you walk in, turn on the lights and don’t give it another thought.
          I have found that rarely the bat people have issues with the lights being too bright. More often is the placement of the lights interacts with their computer monitors in a bad way, and helping them reposition or shade their monitor somehow would be a kind thing to do.

          1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

            I grew up on the West Coast, and although there I would be considered quite conflict adverse, apparently that occasionally makes me the bull in the china shop here in the Midwest!

    2. Rose*

      I grew up in a house with a mother who kept the blinds drawn and NEVER wanted the overhead lights on. I like light. I get home and turn on every light on the first floor of the house.

      I hate, hate, hate when the bat cave people refuse to let others turn on the lights in our office. The compromise in some rooms has been table/floor lamps for those who like light. Would that be an option for your desk/cube?

      1. Wendy Darling*

        The fluorescent light over my desk at one job flickered all the time and multiple maintenance requests had no effect so my cube-pod-mate and I, by mutual “we are going to get migraines from this” agreement, unscrewed the bulb and rocked desk lamps so we didn’t have to work at a rave until maintenance got it together (I’m 90% sure it just needed a new ballast but no one listens to me…).

      2. MegaMoose, Esq.*

        We have so little space that I don’t think a floor lamp would work (I don’t have a desk or cube – we’re at long tables). I would love that option though.

        1. LCL*

          If your group is all using computers, have the most tech savvy person give some tutorials on how to customize your display to make it easier to read. I have heard people say it is easier to work on a computer in the dark. Those people def need a display tweaking tutorial.

  130. Government Mule*

    Question for y’all: How should I (or should I?) list papers/documents/reports on my CV that I either (a) contributed to, but am not credited as a co-author, or (b) authored or edited, but that have no authors listed on them?

  131. Rajiv*

    Very simple question for anyone here –

    When I started my job, I got a sign-on bonus of $2k.

    I am now interviewing for a higher title in the same company. Obviously the salary will be higher, but is a bonus a common thing to ask for in this situation? If so, what’s the term for it – “sign-on” seems only when you work there for the first time?

    1. Kangaroo*

      I don’t think you can ask for a sign up bonus because you’re already ‘signed up’ with the company. However you can mention it When you’re negotiating your pay and see if you can get any extra benefits in its place

      1. Rajiv*

        So wait, are you saying I can ask for another type of monetary bonus or is a lump sum like that off the table when you’re already in the company?

        What are some examples of extra benefits? This is higher ed we are talking about, just FYI.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Extra benefits could be more PTO/vacation time or a partial work from home arrangement.

          1. Rajiv*

            Do higher ed universities every give more vacation time to staff? I already have some work from home. Are you saying asking for a bonus lump sum is out of the question since I’m already working there?

            1. Detective Amy Santiago*

              I don’t work in higher ed, so I don’t know. I would guess that a bonus is unlikely when you’re transitioning internally though.

            2. Kangaroo*

              I would just ask for a slightly higher salary, or more PTO. TBH Im not sure how the higher education industry works so I wouldnt say its out of the question.

            3. fposte*

              If it’s a public institution, there’s likely to be very little latitude (you couldn’t get that at my university), but sometimes private institutions have more. In general I’d prioritize negotiating for the pay rate you want.

  132. legalchef*

    One of my former supervisees from my old job moved out of state, and asked to use me as a reference for his job search – totally fine. But last night I got a questionnaire from a legal placement agency (either temp work or recruiter, not sure), with 22 questions on it! Including things like asking how many days off did they take! Is that a normal thing? I want to help him, but that’s a little intense/time consuming…

    1. Wendy Darling*

      omg I hope my references would tell me if they got something like this. I’ve had a couple staffing agencies ask me for references before they would represent me and I honestly wouldn’t put it past them.

    2. JulieBulie*

      I am not sure exactly what is customary, but I think I’d read the questions and then reply with a paragraph or two that addresses the entire group of questions in a general sense, like, “Chris worked here for three years and did an excellent job, never had a PIP, used PTO within our policies, etc.” But I wouldn’t dig into my files for answers to a list of trivia questions.

  133. Mazzy*

    Did anyone ever outgrow a job that had at one point felt like a reach to even qualify for? How did you recognize you were outgrowing it? What steps did you take? Did people react negatively to you saying you outgrew your job? Were people jealous or thought you were being uppity? Did you try to make the role larger at your current company, or did you have to move on? Was your boss supportive? Was your boss in denial and hope you’d just stay happy where you were?

    1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      I think outgrowing a job is natural and expected. Most people start off at an entry level and then outgrow that as they get more experience and education (formal or informal). Certainly I’ve had bosses and coworkers that weren’t happy that I wanted to move up or leave for something better — but that’s more because it’s inconvenient for them to have to replace me or it will negatively impact their jobs.

  134. Anon Accountant*

    How do you further your skills when your job doesn’t make it possible? I’m a CPA but my duties are 90% data entry/bookkeeping for small clients and payroll. I’m NOT doing financial statements analysis or any other higher level duties you’d expect for a CPA with 10 years’ experience. I’ve talked to my boss about learning some new duties and to summarize to advance I’ll have to leave.

    I’m struggling to find a new position because employers expect I’ll have experience in financial statement analysis, etc. I’ve thought about volunteering but most places won’t take a volunteer for financial matters. Apologies if I posted about this before but I couldn’t remember. My funds are limited so any suggestions for low cost alternatives to gain more skills?

    1. Ledgerman*

      Hi there fellow CPA! My degrees are actually finance and not accounting-based, so your notes about financial analysis caught my attention.

      Have you looked into coursera or its alternatives? These online courses, many of which offer certificates of completion, can help you fill in skills gaps related to financial analysis, etc., and they are free to cheap.

      Do you think you want an analyst position? What are your career goals at this point? If it does tend toward financial analysis, you can also find free/cheap resources online and you can practice on any publicly-traded company using their SEC filings. This can also help you build a portfolio of work that doesn’t use private data, and some employers love it when candidates can demonstrate skills that way.

  135. Wendy Darling*

    I just started my new job on Monday and it’s pretty nice.

    I’m still training right now and don’t know enough to be useful, so I currently have three items on my calendar and two things in my inbox. I feel sort of naked, but I’m resolving to start organized and stay organized. This is another job where I have to track my time on specific projects for billing purposes and I totally sucked at that at my last job (partly because I was under pressure from my boss to bill 100% of my time to projects but under pressure from project managers to bill as little time to them as possible, so I got yelled at no matter how I filled out my timecard) so I’m trying to put strategies in place NOW so I can get used to tracking before I have a lot to track.

    Also this company is not run by assholes who bid low so they can get contracts and then cut corners to maximize profits, so that should help.

  136. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

    “Reply All” Stories

    On October 19 my university participated in the California Great Shake Out state-wide earthquake drill. As part of our university emergency communication system everyone received 1) an email to their university account warning us of the drill, 2) an automated phone call to our office phone numbers, 3) a text and automated phone call to every individuals emergency contact phone number. At the conclusion of this tedious 20 minutes of waiting in the parking lot for the “all clear” the real fun began… first one person replied all to the automated email letting ALL of us know that they didn’t get the text, oh and here’s her correct cell phone number, then someone replied all to her reply all to let us all know that she too did not receive the text and here’s her cell phone number… and THEN about a dozen or so more people joined in updating their emergency contact information… and then someone replied all to let us know that Wakeen no longer worked here but he received the alert and could he please be taken off the list…and then someone replied all to let them know that they just gave out their phone numbers to thousands of people on campus…and THEN the “Fergus would like to recall…” emails started and then finally a helpful soul sent an email out to let everyone know how to properly update HR with their emergency contact information using the online portal.

    All and all a very entertaining earthquake drill.

    Anyone else have reply all fun?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      oh my goooooooooooosh. at least something amusing came out of it?

      It reminds me of the West Wing episode when Margaret sends the email about the calorie count in the muffins and it becomes a Thing because of people replying all and jamming up the email server lol.

    2. Wendy Darling*

      I used to work at a Very Large Tech Company. It has many tens of thousands of employees, and therefore many extremely large email lists. On *three or four separate occasions* the reply-all storms have gotten so extreme that they took down the entire email server for hours. In the majority of cases this is caused by people reply-all-ing “unsubscribe” and other people reply-all-ing “Don’t reply all!!!” These events are documented in an internal wiki and are the source of much amusement (and/or consternation, depending on whether or not the mailservers are your job).

      Mr. Darling works at a different Very Large Tech Company and this has happened there a handful of times also. It seems like a very common issue with companies of a certain size. There’s even a wiki page with a list of notable email storms (although sadly none of the ones that happened at my employer are listed). Notable perpetrators include Microsoft, the New York Times, and the NHS.

      I love me a good email storm.

      2. Amber Rose*

        Oh gosh, I love this so much:

        “In late August 2016, the New York Times internal email system experienced an email storm; this resulted in an article published in the September 2nd edition, titled When I’m Mistakenly Put on an Email Chain, Should I Hit ‘Reply All’ Asking to Be Removed?, and where the content was only:

        No.”

        That’s AMAZING.

        1. fposte*

          Though, you know, second article to software folks: “When You’re Creating Defaults for Email Fields, Should Group Emails Default to ‘Reply All’?” And link to the same content.

    3. JulieBulie*

      1. Boss sent out a group email. One coworker replied to all by mistake to tell the boss about something that one of us had told her in confidence.

      2. Not exactly a reply to all… I was having a problem with Wakeen and wrote to Jane about it. Jane needed Wakeen’s email address. I started typing “Wakeen” in the CC line so that it would autofill and then I could cut and paste it into my message. But oops, I forgot to remove Wakeen from the CC line before I sent the email.

      I’m pretty sure that Wakeen already knew that he was being a pain in the ass, so I probably shouldn’t have been so mortified by my mistake.

    4. Murphy*

      Something similar leading to hundreds of emails in the space of 30 minutes.

      There was some email about an IT training session that for some reason went to a large amount of people at the university (but not everyone). There was some kind of listserv in the to field that must have contained a lot of people. I wondered why I got it, but ignored it. Several other people replied all to say that they didn’t know what the email was about, that they received the message in error, asking to be removed from the listserv, etc. So obviously, every time someone did this, it sent another email in that same thread. BUT WAIT! THERE’S MORE! Since IT was on the list, each email ALSO opened up a support ticket, which sent out AN INDIVIDUAL EMAIL in a different thread. If anyone replied to THAT email, it UPDATED the ticket and send out ANOTHER EMAIL informing everyone about the update to the ticket. Some people started to reply all asking why they were getting all these emails, which just generated more emails. Others figured out what was going on, and started replying all to ask everyone else to stop replying all, and then some people just started having fun with it. I know I had 39 threads and I don’t know how many individual emails. It was a NIGHTMARE.

      1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

        OMG what an awesome train wreck. The best part is that it generated an IT ticket for each one!

      2. Amber Rose*

        This sort of happened when I worked for the government. We had some kind of weird bug one day where, if you sent an email to one person, it would send it to everyone with a government email. EVERYONE. So at first, a bunch of us low level mooks were getting what should have been classified information, which started a panic, which started the whole “stop with reply-all!” which started a bunch of reply all emails mentioning the bug and begging people to stop emailing, which due to the bug actually got sent twice.

        I ended up setting up a filter for the thread to shunt them all into a folder so I could get some work done. Once I stopped laughing anyway.

    5. Red Reader*

      a bunch of people got invited to some sort of employee appreciation event. (5-10-15 years kind of thing, I think.) The employees being appreciated could bring one person each for free, but had to buy tickets for any guests beyond that. Cue about six thousand emails from people replying-all that they couldn’t BELIEVE they had to pay to go to their own appreciation dinner, because they clearly did not read the actual invitation, and another eight thousand telling them they were wrong, and seventeen thousand STOP REPLYING ALL, and it was just ridiculous. And you could tell who in the cube farm was getting it, because we all started laughing (or exclaiming expletives) at the same time when a new email came in.

    6. This Daydreamer*

      It’s a story from another site from a few years ago but it’s beautiful. A guy had been exchanging messages with his wife joking about the new neighbors who were into baby talk. In a tragic moment of carelessness, he emailed his entire company the message “I wuv you, angel tits.”

      And a friend of mine was working in military intelligence on the dark day of the ILOVEYOU virus. One of the managers opened up the email, setting the virus free inside the classified firewall. Twice.

    7. Bad Candidate*

      I may have told this one before, and it’s not a reply all story but still a email-pocolypse. A few years back I worked on a team that had a group inbox with one of those auto-responders that said “Thank you for your email. Blah blah blah. This is an unmonitored mailbox.” Anything sent to that mailbox would be automatically pushed to our imaging system and our work queue. I don’t remember if it was a client or a vendor but someone sent an email to that mailbox late one day from their own group mailbox. When their group mailbox got our auto responder email, it responded with their own auto responder email. And then so did ours. And so did theirs. Over and over again for several hours. Our queue had a couple thousand auto responder emails the next morning. Freaking nightmare.

    8. Anon just in case anyone I work with reads this blog*

      Coworker “June,” an emergency teapot repair technician, sent an email to our site-based all staff listserv that basically said, “Please do not send me new teapots to repair after 4 PM. I will send the teapots back to you if they are sent to me after 4 PM, even if they are so broken that boiling water is spewing out of them.” June’s workday ends at 5, and she is required to fill out and file extensive paperwork same-day about each teapot repair she completes.

      Unfortunately June is not good at sending email, so she not only sent it to everyone at our site, but also to the VPs who supervise our site from head office, who were not impressed with the idea that June was not doing teapot repairs from 4-5. (But ultimately it did contribute to head office realizing that June’s workload was unmanageable, so now we have two emergency teapot repair technicians.)

      1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

        First part of an earthquake is to duck and cover (during the shaking), then evacuate the building to a safe spot away from trees, power lines, and buildings if you are able to. The fun part is that we are in a pretty urban area and there is NO spot away from trees, power lines or buildings. But I guess I’d rather take my chances with a jacaranda tree than stay on the 5th floor of a concrete building constructed in 1963.

  137. Jadelyn*

    I’m trying to figure out how to approach my boss/grandboss about an issue I’m having with our counterpart team back East and would love some help with scripts. TLDR: I’m officially an Assistant, I’ve been doing HRIS specialist work for over a year, but they still haven’t formally reclassified my position or changed my job title, and now I’m being shut out by the other HRIS specialist back east. How do I address this?

    Backstory: I’m in HR at a bicoastal nonprofit organization in the U.S., which has functioned as two mostly separate companies for the last 10 years or so since my half, the younger half of the organization, was founded. We’re two different employers of record, we’re affiliated but not formally part of their company. Despite that, their HR team has always been very controlling over our HR operations and very bad about including us in any kind of decision-making or major projects – but gods help us if we took things into our own hands and just did things for ourselves rather than waiting for them. However, there are plans to consolidate as a single employer of record in 2019. The two HR teams are going to be consolidated as well, with 4 sub-teams: Talent Management (recruiting and employee relations), Training, Operations (payroll and benefits), and HRIS.

    I’ve been the HR assistant here for 4 years in January. But I’m very tech-savvy and was tapped early on to support our transition to a new HRIS as the “West Coast liaison” basically, and over the last year and a half I’ve grown my role to be somewhere between an HRIS Administrator and HRIS Analyst. Earlier this year we worked up a new job description for what I’m actually doing now – we even had to hire a second assistant because I wasn’t able to keep up on both my assistant-type duties and do all the HRIS-related stuff we wanted to do – and I’ve been explicitly told that I’ll be moved into this job “soon” and will be part of the HRIS sub-team when we restructure.

    The problem is: We’re activating another new module in our HRIS, and I thought I was going to be involved because, y’know, I do HRIS? I was part of the kick-off meeting, but then didn’t hear anything else for several weeks, and then yesterday got a calendar invite from one of the East Coast HR people sent to myself and several others on the West Coast team, saying “Vicki [my HRIS counterpart on the East Coast team] and I have been working on configuring the module, and we’d like to get everyone’s feedback on what we’ve done so far and if there are any changes we need to make before we finalize it.” I was kind of shocked – why am I being relegated to the second-circle of review with the payroll admins and generalists, rather than having been involved in the actual configuration? The person who sent the calendar invite isn’t even HRIS herself – she’s a Sr. Generalist. So why has she been working with Vicki and I haven’t been?

    I’m feeling shut out and I’m honestly kind of pissed. I have been told repeatedly that my role is changing, I’ve been doing the work of an HRIS specialist for a year and some now (without being paid accordingly), but they haven’t actually gone through with reclassifying me, and now I’m being ignored by the east coast team while they’re doing actual HRIS configuration that I should’ve been involved with.

    How do I go to my VP (my grandboss, who’s much more involved with this than my actual manager is, so I’m not jumping levels as much as it sounds like it) and say “hey I am not being included in things I thought I was supposed to be involved in, wtf is going on with the east coast team ignoring me?” without sounding like I’m whining or pouting about being left out?

    1. Mazzy*

      Similar stuff is why I am job hunting. I don’t see how it’s whining to raise this issue. I continue to be surprised when it happens to me because it is so obvious that some things are my job, that the only reason not to include me would be some sort of power play, or trying to get more recognition/prestige any way they can (even if it involves walking on others).

    2. Product person*

      Here’s what I’d say to the VP:
      “I received this email, and am a bit concerned with the fact that nobody on our side was involved in the configuration of the new module. If there are settings that don’t work for our office, we’ll have wasted time and energy setting it up in one way only to have to go back and redo it after our review. Can you tell me if there’s a good reason to keep me, as the HRIS liaison, out of the picture until after the configuration was done?”

      Then listens to what the VP says. From what you describe, it’s possible that the other office *is* in charge of HRIS policies and the configuration/customization of tools, and your job will be mostly to maintain / execute the new process in the system after the fact). May be disappointing not to have the same level of influence in the decision-making, but I’ve seen many organizations in which one group had more power than another, and made sure the other group was only involved after all the important decisions were made, when it would be harder to affect change unless something was truly unacceptable. Hopefully it won’t be the case here, and your VP can intervene so it doesn’t happen again.

  138. Velvet Goldberg*

    I think I’m being tested by my department’s new Director. I wouldn’t normally worry about this… after all as a new Director, he should try us out and see what our capabilities are. Except two events have occurred that lead me to believe his methods aren’t always above board. I’ll try to keep this short. In one instance he misrepresented what he told me to do and told my supervisor that I ignored what he said, when in truth I had the whole exchange via email and at no point did he specify what he said specified. We then had an informal sit down, where he told me he wasn’t mad and praised the work I’ve been doing, but reiterated that he had told me specifically to do something and I didn’t do it. At that point I realized I couldn’t argue with him about this if he was unwilling to review his own email, and told him I was sorry for the misunderstanding and if I had seen what he had asked me to do, I certainly would have done it.

    Then yesterday, he stopped by my office and asked if I could join him for a meeting, now. This was a meeting with senior directors about an upcoming project that I literally had no information about aside from its name and a one-sentence description of what it was about. While I appreciate being considered to join in on high level meetings, I am the type of person who prefers to have some more information about a project before I start offering my opinions about it.

    My concern in both these cases is that he’s creating dramatic situations for the sake of creating dramatic situations. I’m already an anxious person in general and my job has its fair share of dramatic moments already, that I don’t need manufactured drama as well. How do I handle a boss like this?

    1. JulieBulie*

      At the meeting, if someone asked my opinion, I’d say I didn’t know enough to offer one, and boss sent me here to listen. (If the senior directors don’t think this was appropriate, it will reflect on the boss, not me.)

      With the email, I’d ask him to please re-send that email because I just couldn’t find any reference to that thing he was talking about. I’d print the one email that I had (which didn’t mention it) and say I can’t see anything about that in here. (A reasonable boss probably would have already checked this out himself and re-sent you the email in question… or realized that he never actually did send it to you as he thought. That’s happened to me before.)

      1. Velvet Goldberg*

        I would have been fine with him thinking he did send me something, even if he didn’t. But, the fact that he went all in even after I told him I didn’t see what he was referencing does concern me.

    2. fposte*

      While it’s possible he’s doing what you say, I think it’s likelier that on 1) he’s got a never-back-down problem and on 2) that he’s going to bring you into stuff without the advance context you’d like. 2) is a taste call; 1) is a warning sign. On 1), I might check back with my own boss to say “I’m a little confused about the exchange with Fergus, given the emails. Do you have any thoughts on how I could have handled that differently and what might be a better approach in future?” On 2), I’d probably just try to roll with it for the time being; if I developed a stronger relationship with Fergus down the line, I’d say that I do my best work with good context, so any time he can give me a longer lead time for involvement in projects I’d appreciate it.

      1. Velvet Goldberg*

        He definitely has a never-back-down attitude… I witnessed it in the meeting he asked me to join.
        As for the email, I did share the email chain with my supervisor and she confirmed that it was vague and unclear and also that he was in the wrong, not me.

        1. fposte*

          Still worth asking what she thinks you should do in future, though, unless you have reasons not to trust her.

  139. HigherEd on Toast*

    I’m hoping to get some feedback on how concerned I should be about a situation. This is not feedback so much about the situation itself as to what red flags I should be looking for and how they affect my job search.

    I’m in my second year on the tenure track in higher ed, but I’ve taught for a decade; it’s just that my previous job was annually renewed contracts rather than tenure-track. My state is currently going through a budget crisis that affects us. Constant rumors are swirling around about the possible closure of our institution, the possible folding of it into another college, staff cuts, faculty cuts, “the need for drastic measures”- but they’re all happening at the same time, which makes it extremely hard to sort out what’s going to happen. My current take is no one knows for certain.

    I’ve started job searching, but so far have limited myself to jobs that I would be a great fit for based on what specialties they’re asking for, my experience, and whether the city would be a good fit for me (I have a disability that means I can’t drive and so need a place with public transit). Only one of my colleagues knows about my job search, and she keeps telling me that I need to apply for every single job that I’m qualified for, whether or not it would provide me the ability to make a living, because “better you have a few lean years than no job.” She personally thinks the college will close, but seems to have no better evidence for this than anyone else does.

    I’m trying to figure out if there are specific things I can look for in this mess of rumors that would tell me whether I do need to expand my job search. Other background that may be relevant: I am single with no children, I have no debt, I am a year shy of 40, there are lots of things I like about my job and I wouldn’t be searching at all if I felt the future was secure.

    1. fposte*

      Oh, geez, I bet you’re in my state. I think you’re right that no one knows for certain.

      I think your approach is reasonable. You don’t want to spend time and psychic energy applying to every job on the planet during an already tense period. I also think you might want to excuse yourself from conversations like this with your co-worker, because those are also pretty anxiety-making.

      1. HigherEd on Toast*

        I hope you’re right! I’d hate to think another state is going through this, especially one I might want to relocate to!

        Thanks for the suggestion. It seems everyone wants to have “the sky is falling” conversations lately, but few of them make me as tense as that colleague; she’s always predicting disaster. I’ll keep applying to jobs I really like the look of and see what happens.

        1. fposte*

          I think that’s how some people manage their own anxiety. I can’t blame them for that, but I do need to back away from it sometimes.

  140. Junior Dev*

    I am emailing with a potential freelance client and he’s concerned about my lack of customer facing website experience…I have some experience with that but it was at the crappy ExJob where they made is write terrible code to go with the awful legacy site. So I told him I don’t have anything to show him but gave him some reasons I’m confident I can do it anyway.

    I have two job interviews for full time jobs and one meeting with a code school I used to TA at to see about doing a short term contract with them, which I think would be a convenient way for me to pay my bills as I search for full time work.

    I have an open source project I said I’d write documentation for and I still want to, just got bogged down lately. And I want to study a new testing framework and if possible make some contributions to another open source project using what I learned.

    Oh and I have to make a video in preparation for one of the interviews next week. Ugh. (it’s actually relevant to the job so I don’t mind, I’m just feeling overwhelmed)

  141. Argh!*

    Body language speaks volumes. For a few years it has seemed like my corner of the job and my expertise were less and less valued here. I’ve been looking for a new job but I don’t want to leave just to leave. I’m picky about my applications.

    But then…. grand boss talked about an upcoming reorganization in a meeting and he wouldn’t look at me even when I asked a question. Then the next day I asked grand boss one-on-one to clarify what he’d said and he started looking me in the eye then when he started touching on the room my corner of the world is in, he looked away into space while he talked.

    I have been reorganized out of a job before so I am probably always on high alert for signs it could happen again, but I have a sinking feeling I’m right and not just paranoid. The other time it was very traumatic and it caused PTSD that I needed help for. I still have nightmares about it. I wish I were resilient enough to deal with the total powerlessness of things like that, but I’m not.

    On the other hand, I really hate my boss so there’s that…

    1. Murphy*

      Ugh…Yeah, before I was fired, my department was working in a temporary space, so eventually we were all going to move. In the meantime, they were all co-located except me. There were plans for me to share an office with someone so I’d at least be near everyone else, but as we approached the date where I needed to be out of my office, I hadn’t heard anything about plans to move me. In retrospect, when I asked about it, my boss and co-worker gave eachother a look before telling me not to worry about it and that it would be sorted out. :-/

      2. JulieBulie*

        Almost the exact same thing happened to me… I wasn’t on the new seating chart, and was hastily told I’d be sitting in a different area. Yeah right. That different area was my living room, with no job.

          1. JulieBulie*

            Sorry this is happening to you. Glad your grandboss has the good manners to act awkwardly about it! (My ex-boss seemed rather gleeful.) I hope things turn out better than they sound!

  142. Mockingjay*

    I just received an award at the company quarterly luncheon. Small monetary value, but it’s the recognition for my work that makes me happy.

  143. Guess they forgot me*

    I think it’s official – I’ve missed out on an interview because I didn’t answer my phone.

    I received a call to schedule a phone interview last Tuesday. I called back within two hours. Never heard back. Called again Friday. Haven’t heard back. This is saddening, because I’ve been out of a job for a while, and it seems unfair that I wouldn’t get a chance because I’m not glued to my phone. Oh well. Time to eat Halloween candy in sadness!

    1. Elle Em (changing my name since there are two Elles on today)*

      Just think–if a company is really that fickle and/or unorganized that they wouldn’t call you back, maybe that’s not the company you want to be working for! :) (Besides, who calls to schedule a phone interview? They should just e-mail the candidate to set up a time. That’s normal!) Enjoy your Halloween candy and try not to feel too upset. Something will come along for you <3

  144. Valkyrie*

    td; dr: the guy who owns our office building is abusive, hates me and likes to yell.

    I’m having an issue with the landlord at work. Back in November, right after the election, he came into the office for the sole purpose of making everyone in our office feel bad. We have very different politics and he came in just to gloat. He tried to goad me into an argument about the candidates and I repeatedly told him I thought it was inappropriate and I didn’t want to have this conversation. He then said “well, I’ll just leave you here to cry about it then”; I acted as respectfully as I could and I told him that that time was difficult for a lot of people and I’d appreciate it if he treated me with respect. He stormed out, SLAMMING the door behind him.

    Last week, he came in with an electrician to do some work on our conference room. I told him my boss was in there with a client, but I’d see if we can get her out. Boss says no (because clients are more important). I tell landlord, and cheerfully add “next time, if you can just let us know when I can make sure the room is empty” he replied with “I told you yesterday that he’d be in today” I replied “well, we can’t leave it open all day, so just more specific would be nice” and he EXPLODES. ” You’re being rude to me, you’re always rude to me”, storms out, slams the door–literal tantrum.

    Everyone at work can testify that I 100% was professional and NOT rude, but I can’t keep having interactions like this. It seems like he really hates it when anyone (especially women?) tell him no and stand up to him. These interactions make me feel mildly unsafe. I really love my job and especially my boss, but as the person at the front desk I’m one who has to talk to him.

    I spoke with my boss about it yesterday to make sure we were on the same page about it, she apparently had gone in and screamed at him about how he cannot terrorize her staff and this was totally un-cool. I’m concerned that he could retaliate against her by raising her rent to the point the business couldn’t afford it (we’re a super small office), and any new place would be more expensive *and* require a 5-year lease, which doesn’t make sense because we’re looking to buy a place.

    It’s great to know my awesome boss has my back, but I can’t shake this anxiety. Every time the door opens I’m worried it’s going to be him and I’m going to get screamed at again.

    2. Reba*

      Ugh, that sounds scary and so unpleasant. Frankly though I do not think there is anything to be done but hope your company moves out of there quickly. If he seems to particularly target you, you could talk to your boss about changing some of your duties to avoid interacting with him, or make a rule that you always send him/his calls or whatever straight to her. Your boss does sound good–does she know how much this is affecting you/do you feel you can be honest with her about the fear it’s creating in your workplace?

    3. strawberries and raspberries*

      I think if he does try to retaliate, your boss has tenants’ rights that she can invoke, and it might be a good idea to start documenting these incidents so that if it were to come to that, you have a case that it’s part of a pattern of retaliation. (Especially if you’re a small business.) In the meantime, if you’re feeling unsafe when he comes in, I think it’s totally safe to deflect to other people on staff to help divert him, and also to be witnesses if he continues to raise his voice. You may have to help him as the front desk person, but you don’t have to put up with being abused. I totally sympathize, he sounds awful.

      1. Valkyrie*

        Luckily my boss has been really great about it, the challenge is that I sit at the front desk. So, if he needs her there has to be at least minimal interaction with me.

        As of now, the plan is to grab one of my colleagues to talk with him if/whenever he comes into the office because clearly he and I cannot communicate and I’m also not good at backing down when faced with this sort of toxic behavior these days.

  145. HowInTheWorld*

    Hey, commenters, maybe you can help me out here.

    One of my bosses is not a native English speaker, and is from a country that is…a little (a lot) less diverse than the USA. She regularly uses the word “retarded” to refer to things that she thinks are ridiculous/unacceptable, which always makes me wince (though she’s never noticed this). I have never mentioned it as I don’t really know how to handle it. She’s my boss and I’m pretty new here, so I generally let it go and fume at home, in private.

    I thought that was the extent of it – a quirk of hers from not being a native English speaker. I was wrong. The other day, she was showing me and my other boss pictures of a male relative in Halloween costumes, as he gets really into it and they are genuinely impressive costumes. The very last one she showed us, one she thought was particularly hilarious, was one of her extremely pale, blue-eyed, white male relative in full blackface. It went down to his chest, covered his hands, every inch of exposed skin was painted a very dark brown, and he wore a curly black wig. I was floored. My other boss is black, and she laughed uncomfortably and made no mention of it; I was too flabbergasted to really react at all. I didn’t say anything about it, as it doesn’t feel like my place to do so.

    What should I have done? What could I still do, a week later? How do I feel less absolutely disgusting for having seen it at all?

    1. Snark*

      I’d start letting her know. “Hey, Bleminda, just so you know….the word ‘retarded’ is really problematic and is considered insulting to people with mental disabilities, and over the past couple decades, it’s really gotten a bad connotation in the US.”

      “Ooooh, yikes. This would absolutely not fly in the US. Blackface makeup is regarded as extremely racist and has a really touchy history. I wouldn’t show that picture around if I were you, it could really offend someone badly.”

      1. Emi.*

        This sounds like a good script to me–it sounds very “looking out for ya,” which is reasonable, if she’s not a native English speaker or from the US. (Like, yes, people from other countries should also know better than to dress in blackface, but it’s not at the same level of HOW DID YOU NOT KNOW THIS?!?)

      2. Artemesia*

        Trevor Noah did a bit on his show last night I believe on how blackface is in this day and age entirely inappropriate. Might send her the clip. but that sentence is also good.

    2. Reba*

      I think you could still bring it up, even though time has passed. Just quickly and quietly say, “I’ve been thinking about the Halloween costumes you showed us–I didn’t say this at the time because honestly I was a bit shocked, but that sort of dress up is really not considered acceptable in the US. I thought you’d want to know.” If she wants to litigate it or know more, there’s plenty of information on the internet.

      Address the “retarded” usage in the moment, again with the framing “I thought you’d want to know that this is offensive/outdated/whatever.”

      Like in Snark’s scripts, you make it sound collaborative, like you are looking out for her and of course we know she wouldn’t want to offend someone…

      Good luck! It will be uncomfortable but it’s right to speak up!

    3. Argh!*

      You could say “You know, in a lot of American workplaces you could be formally reprimanded for something like that, or even fired!”

      If she doesn’t take the hint, then talking to grandboss may be in order.

      1. Laura*

        Go to the other boss and ask her how she thinks it should be handled. You’ll be in a very difficult position otherwise if the other boss effectively condoned it.

  146. Nisie*

    We relocated due to my husband’s job. I had planned on staying home a year, but my dream job came available nearby. I applied for it and signed the paperwork yesterday. The sad thing is now that my foot is in the door, due to the current political environment and what I do, I’m preparing to have to transfer to another area- but the job gives experience doing that. The pay is lower, but the taxes are too.

  147. Beth Anne*

    Has anyone done that assessment of what color is your parachute? Or is it a book? I can never figure out if it’s an actual book or test or both. But people are always throwing it around on different blogs and “what should I do with my life” threads on facebook.

    I’ve never actually looked into it but have always been curious about it.

    1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      It’s a book, with self-assessment exercises in it. I have checked it out from the library a few times and went through most of the exercises, but eventually I got bored with it. I think it can be helpful depending on what your options are like, but I also found it frustrating because I so often feel like I don’t actually like doing anything (thanks, depression!).

      1. Beth Anne*

        Yeah I’ve never done it and have a feeling that’s what would happen to me. Whenever people say if money wasn’t an option what would you do I’m always like not work? And Travel all the time. HA.

    3. Fictional Butt*

      I haven’t completed all the exercises, but I found the book to be helpful in how it breaks down different aspects of a job: what you actually do + what field or industry you work in + what kind of people you work with + what responsibilities you have, etc. Breaking down all my experience and arranging it in different ways helped me understand my career options differently.

    4. JulieBulie*

      I read it (ages ago). I found it interesting, but not especially helpful. I think it would have been more useful before I had started my career, or if I had ever had the desire (and financial support) to change careers.

      It’s really not the best resource if you are out of work and need to find work before your savings runs out.

      1. Beth Anne*

        Yea, I was just curious. I think my biggest problem right now is I found a career I LOVE but can’t find people willing to pay what I should be getting paid to do the job.

      1. Artemesia*

        It was a thing about 35-40 years ago. My entire department of highly specialized people who were watching their careers go up in flames when the entire department was cut in a merger was treated to a workshop by some young thing who walked everyone through filling out flower petals or something. I remember it with horror.

  148. They got on the same elevator and now I have to say something*

    INTJs (or introverted people in general), how do you handle the following in the workplace and how difficult is it for you:
    – Small talk
    – Office parties
    – Making connections in general

    1. Amber Rose*

      Small talk is hard but doable with some work.
      Parties are easy.
      Connections are impossible.

      I can make small talk because I’ve practiced for a really long time. Coming up with random things to mention and stuff. I still have a hard time figuring out where to stop, but you know, it’s a work in progress.

      Parties are easy. I sip my drink, enjoy the atmosphere, and wallflower. Nobody notices because they’re all drunk or chatting.

      Connections I can’t do because I can’t small talk or engage during parties in a way that makes me seem like a human, rather than an alien posing as a human. I’m too damn awkward.

      1. tigerStripes*

        As another INTJ, I also frequently feel like an alien posing as a human. Nice to not be the only one!

    2. Beancounter Eric*

      Small talk….basically, I don’t. Sports, don’t follow. Pop culture – absolutely clueless. Office gossip – no thank you.
      About the only office small talk I do is traffic, as in “Today’s drive really blew chunks, how about yours?”, which in Atlanta generally draws a similar answer.

      Office parties – current company generally doesn’t – previous companies got off on them big time, and I would go, make the requisite appearance, then leave fairly quickly.

    3. Alex*

      I don’t love small talk. When someone asks me something unrelated to work, I either give a very vague response or just deflect and ask them something about themselves. I don’t like sharing details of my personal life with coworkers.

      Office parties I dread, but they’re not usually as bad as I expect. I find one or two people to stand/sit near who I know reasonably well and interject in the conversation occasionally or try to say something clever.

      Making in connections in general: eh… I am polite and professional, but I’m not looking for best friends at work.

    4. Janine Willcall*

      I’m introverted but I’m great at small talk because it’s often short-term and I am shameless in going for the low hanging topics (weather, new movies, traffic, weekend plans). Same with parties– I can easily talk a lot about fluffy items forever, or ask other people about whatever hobby they have.

      The downside is that deeper connections are hard because of course I get a little burnt out doing all this and it’s harder for me to generate the energy to follow up.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      Small talk
      Usually just do it. “How are you? I’m fine.” That sort of thing. Doesn’t last more than a minute or two.

      Office parties
      Skip cocktail hour. Go late just for the sit-down dinner. If there’s no sit-down dinner, just sit down anyway by myself. Someone else may join me sitting… or not. Either way, better than standing around in a chat circle.

      Making connections in general
      Become friends with former co-workers, not current ones.

    6. Therese*

      I find all of these hard but I think making connections is the hardest.

      I find myself socially awkward to begin with and I just don’t know what to say to people. My MIL actually complains that I don’t talk to her so that means I hate her (in her brain). But I literally just DON’T know what to say! Most of the talking I do is me answering questions people say to me.

      I just find making connections is hard b/c it seems like people don’t want them. Most adults have their own group of friends/people and don’t necessarily care to have more. Or that is the impression I get. It’s hard. I also feel like they have to be natural and can’t be forced which is what people try to do. Someone last week was like you are a girl so you would get a long with my girlfriend..uhm that isn’t how life works. lol

    7. AnotherAlison*

      Find the right workplace! I’m an INTJ, too. There are usually multiple people on my team that I can chat with. I work in engineering so a lot of people are introverted or just have similar interests. Even as a female, I can typically find common ground. I generally start with making work conversation, but we can drift into kids, where we went to school, local news, weather, fitness, food, etc. I’ve had coworkers chat about their hobbies that I know nothing about, but as an info junkie, I’m still interested even though I can’t contribute (beer making, vintage radio restoration, collecting espresso machines). There are always a couple people I can’t make any connection with, but I can get by with the ones I can.

      Now, it is not this easy in the rest of the world. Most of my husband’s friends’ wives think I’m stuck up.

    8. Canadian Natasha*

      -Small talk one-on-one or in very small groups is fine, although I hated it as a child and teen.
      -Office parties? I attend if I must or if I think I’ll be seen as “not a team player” if I don’t. I always control my own getting home plans so I can bow out when I’m too tired from all the crowds and socialising.
      -Making connections? Depends what you mean. I don’t generally hang out with coworkers outside of work since I draw a line between friends/coworkers. I find it a very long and difficult processs to find and develop friends (not just friendly acquaintances) in general.

    9. Colleen*

      I am also an INTJ!

      – Small talk: Hate it. I am better if there is a meaningful topic, so at work I stock up on things to talk about: “What do you think the reorganization in sales means to us as a company, long term?” “Did you notice the announcement about the new CIO? I wonder what he’ll bring to the company.” And so on. I may get a lot of strange looks, but those who join in result in a conversation worth having. Otherwise, I ask people what department they work in and what’s going on in their neck of the woods.
      – Office parties: Hate them. Usually convince a few people to come with me, so I have someone to speak with. Most often, they are extroverts, so I can stand and listen to them talk with others, if I need to.
      – Making connections in general: Can be difficult in group settings (like a “meet the senior leadership” event), but I am much better one-on-one. I have developed a knack for figuring out what to say to people — at least at work — by having a lot of information about the company, so I can find something to talk about with company people.

      Best of success to you.

  149. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

    What do you think about a job posting that has a strangely long deadline, and do you think that the real deadline is probably long gone?

    Details: I saw a job posted on an industry job board three weeks ago, but for various reasons including a house guest and a depression “flare up” (for lack of a better term) I still haven’t submitted the application. The original description on the job board gave a deadline of December (!) and the job is still up on the company webpage with that date, but I noticed last week that the date on the job board had changed to last Friday and now it has disappeared from the board.

    It’s a big company and they are conceivably open to getting applications on a rolling basis, and their own official page still has the December deadline. Do you think it’s still open? Do you think it even matters, because the worst they can say is “sorry, you’re too late”?

    1. JulieBulie*

      Sounds like it’s closed, but they didn’t get around to removing it from their own website. Could be that the req got canceled.

      Conversely, maybe they removed it from the job board because they didn’t feel the need to continue paying for the ad (if it costs anything; idk).

      The strangely long deadline is not so strange. If they have a project that starts in January, but they want to be picky about hiring, they’ll advertise as early as possible and decide as late as possible.

      Can’t hurt to apply anyway, though, right?

  150. Thursday Next*

    Female manager here. I have an employee who has worked for me for a little over a year. On two occasions, I’ve had to speak to her about the way she dresses. Very low-cut tops, cold shoulder-style, etc. This woman is in her early 40s and has always worked in very small offices. We are an extremely large corporation and while we have a relaxed dress code (jeans are okay, tank tops are not, etc), this is so far from being appropriate. I’ve given her the dress code, told her to take her cues from me and her peers. I’ve talked about business norms. Yet she keeps wearing tops more appropriate for the bar on a Saturday. What should I do next? I almost want to send her home to change, but my boss thinks that’s going too far. Do I do a PIP? Something has to happen, because it makes me extremely uncomfortable to have 4-6 inches of cleavage right in my sight line. For what it’s worth, I’m also a larger-topped woman and have no problem finding tops that cover me.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Have you asked her what’s up? If not, that would be my next step: “We’ve talked about this multiple times and it’s continuing to happen. What’s going on?”

      1. Thursday Next*

        Now that you point it out, that does seem the most obvious next step :) However, I can’t really imagine a response that would justify her behavior. So I’d still be stuck not knowing what to do next.

        1. strawberries and raspberries*

          If she’s an otherwise good worker, I would also frame it like, “We’ve talked about this multiple times, and it seems like you’re continuing to abuse the flexibility that our dress code allows. Since you’re really an asset to the team and your work on [thing] is good, I would hate for this to be the thing that puts you over the edge into corrective action.”

          Also, if you have a boss that oversees the whole team and you, maybe you can also sort of put it on them too: “You and I have discussed it, but I’m also aware that upper management takes this quite seriously and I want you to be mindful of what they see when they come in.”

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          She might actually tell you something that helps — like that she’s having trouble affording more appropriate clothes, in which case you might be inclined to cut her more slack for a while. But the other point of asking is to create some accountability; you’ve talked about it, nothing’s changed, so now you’re going to have an uncomfortable conversation about why. It’s the next logical step and sometimes this fixes it.

          If it doesn’t, then you need to decide how much it matters and how far you’re willing to go to enforce it.

        3. AdAgencyChick*

          Ideally, she would be flustered and respond with “You’re right, it won’t happen again.” If she argues, though, you can respond firmly with, “Complying with the dress code is something you need to do for your continued success here. Can you do that?” If she says no, the next conversation is about how this is serious enough to jeopardize her job (if you feel that way), or that it’s serious enough that it will get in the way of transfers/promotions/other types of career advancement.

          1. Laura*

            Target has high-necked t-shirts in all sizes for $5 and it sounds like a t-shirt would be fine if they’re good with jeans. I can’t see finances as an excuse here as it sounds as if she has a variety of tops.

    2. NeedHalp*

      I would consider a formal warning in writing that covers how many times the problem has been discussed with her, that it occurred again today (or on X date), and that another instance will result in being sent home to change. I’d provide another copy of the dress code.

    3. Margaret*

      It sounds like your own boss is not that concerned about this? If that’s the case, you might be better off leaving it alone.

  151. NeedHalp*

    What’s the most appropriate way to ask for leadership training and opportunities? Should this kind of conversation wait until an annual review, a routine check-in meeting, or does this depend on workplace culture/norms?

    1. Graciosa*

      Can you give us a little color? I mean your background and interests.

      For example, “I’ve been in my current role as Sr. Teapot Analyst for 2 years after a 10 year career (7 at my current employer). The next clear step in my career should be Manager – Teapot Analytics, but I’m not sure how to make this next step. I have a [good/bad / fair] relationship with my boss, but no mentor within the company to ask how to position myself for promotion.”

      With the minimal information you’ve provided, the question could have come from (no offense intended, but this has happened) someone 3 months into a first post-graduation job who wants to start hinting about a VP position in a Fortune 100 company.

      The advice I give these folks is very different, so more color may help you get better quality responses –

      1. NeedHalp*

        Sure, no problem. I’m in public relations, and I have 9 years of experience. I have a good relationship with my boss. I’m currently in a manager role (1.5 years into this role), and my next step up at this company would be to become an associate director. My very long-term goal is to eventually become a vice president.

        Despite my title, in my current role I do not manage any direct reports. Associate directors, my next step up, do not manage direct reports, either. Directors do, and I am two steps away from that role.

        I would like to know what kind of training I can take on and/or what types of leadership projects I can begin working on to set myself up to build strong managerial skills and a broad strategic/visioning mindset that aligns with my long-term goals. I’m just not sure at what point I bring this up to my manager. It seems like a conversation fit for an annual review, but that won’t take place until April/May, and I am itching to get started.

        1. Graciosa*

          If you have a decent relationship with your boss, I would ask for some time on her calendar and bring this up now. There’s no reason you can’t present it just as you have here – you want to know what type of training or projects you can work to set yourself up for success in the role you’re targeting for the longer term. I wouldn’t wait half a year to have this conversation.

          Before you go in, spend some time thinking seriously about your personal package of experience and demonstrated skills (and please pay attention to the modifier “demonstrated” – many times you are not considered to have a skill until the leadership team witnesses it). If you can identify some of the gaps between what you currently bring to a role and what those in higher level roles are providing, you may be able to come up with a good starting point. A good boss will be impressed that you’ve invested in preparation and will appreciate having a foundation for the discussion (even if you miss the mark a bit, which is fine).

          There are probably requirements for these jobs that are not necessarily explicit in the job descriptions (for example, bringing in a new client; joining or holding leadership roles in industry organizations; presenting successfully to a specific internal audience). Observe carefully to see if you can identify these, but don’t be surprised if you miss them – it’s not unusual for people to miss cues that seem obvious to those in higher level roles, which is part of the reason to have the conversation as soon as possible.

          Sometimes there’s an opportunity to just ask people already in higher level roles – questions about what was the best preparation for the role, the most challenging aspect, the most surprising, etc. – and even a brief answer can provide helpful insight. A relatively recent hire spent some time at a business-social event this afternoon asking me questions and got a lot of useful information – the kind I wish I had when I was at his level – simply because he asked.

          Project leadership is a traditional training ground for individual contributors who want to transition into management. In the general business world, presentation skills – and being able to hold your own in higher level company – are also areas where candidates need to demonstrate their ability to be eligible for promotion, but I’m not sure that’s not a given for people in your field.

          The one that I think will be most difficult will be developing what you describe as a strategic / visioning mindset. It is *not* something that comes naturally to most people, and it is difficult to change a mode of thought. I usually suggest people use existing skills in problem solving as a segue into thinking about a longer-term end game than just solving the immediate problem. What would a perfect system look like if you were designing it from scratch with no constraints – then ask yourself how you can get there.

          In an operations context, practices such as six sigma or lean manufacturing may help; they tend to include both training on making small changes regularly (small improvements mount up) and a vision of how the end result should look (near-perfect quality). I have been able to apply these outside manufacturing and operations, but that’s not normally the jumping off point. If your company is not already involved in these, I wouldn’t put this at the top of your list, but it may be of use at some point further on.

          When you have some guidance and a plan, I would set aside a certain amount of time to work it consciously. Treat it like a project, and give it your attention. Many people receive feedback suggesting (for example) that they work to change a speech pattern, or make sure their emails are written in X way or whatever. Most people just make a mental note and try to do better with varying levels of success. If you put time on your calendar to assess your own progress and *work* your plan, you’ll outperform the ones who merely make mental notes.

          That was probably longer than necessary, but I hope there will be something in there to spark some ideas. I understand what it feels like to want to move forward as soon as possible and wanted to give you some things to think about before you speak to your boss – but to answer your original question, yes, go ahead and speak to your boss.

          Good luck.

          1. NeedHalp*

            Thank you so much for this answer! This is so helpful, and your tips make this process feel much more approachable.

  152. Not Today Satan*

    I’m a team lead at my organization and have been learning database and data analysis stuff over the past few years. There’s a problem my organization has that my team has been tasked with solving, but I knew what they wanted my team to do wouldn’t solve it. But, I did want to solve the problem, so one slow day I did a deep dive into some data and I made a powerpoint with some proposals.

    I showed it to her boss, who showed it to her boss (the #3 at the org), who wanted me to present it to the Big Boss. So after some edits I did.

    And her response was…. Not just Nos to all of my proposals, which I wouldn’t have been surprised by, but she was OFFENDED that someone in my position would dare make suggestions to her. Yes, really. No, I am not exaggerating to turn her into a villain.

    This was like a month ago and I’ve totally checked out of work from then. The worst part is that my boss, who set me up for this whole thing, provided NO encouragement or support after I was insulted like this.

    So I’ve been looking for jobs, but it seems like every job I apply to has glassdoor reviews about upper management being this way. How do so many terrible managers get so powerful?

    1. Margaret*

      That’s horrible for you – no wonder you’ve checked out – I would feel so humiliated and angry at my boss for not standing up for me. It just shows you what an absolute coward they are and they have no integrity.

      I wouldn’t say all upper management is like this though. Carry on looking for a job – you sound like a proactive, hard working employee who a decent employer would be happy to have.

      Good luck.

  153. salary in interviews*

    I just had an interview and I left worried that I lowballed myself when I named a range. They would answer when I asked if they had a range, and this is a new industry I’m interviewing in and everything online has such a large range. Literally it goes from $60K to $200K for the same type of position.

    They already gave me the benefits before they asked about salary, but I did leave the interview with the sense that I should have gone higher. If I get an offer and they give me the range I stated, do I look bad if I ask for more?

    1. KMB213*

      Was this a first interview? If so, and there are subsequent interviews, be sure to ask questions about the work at those interviews – not only is it good to know as much as you can about the job, but you could use the information gained from your questions as the reason you’re now asking for more. If you already know everything about the job and the offer stage will be the next step, I do think it looks bad to change the amount you’re asking for, but other’s opinions may differ.

      1. salary in interviews*

        This was the second interview. I had a phone interview, and this was the first in-person. They said there’d be another in-person interview.

        I mean, I would be happy with the low end of the range I stated, but I’m mostly worried that I might have said a number that’s super low for the company/industry, and that because they already gave me the benefit info and I said a number first, I lost any ground I had to negotiate if I get an offer.

        I sort of panicked when the interviewer wouldn’t give me the budgeted range – she said it focused on people’s experience and skills and there was no set range – and as soon as I said my range, I was like “oh no, I should have said something higher”.

        1. KMB213*

          If you have at least one more in-person interview, I think you’re good! Just say that, given what you now know about the job, you think $xx,xxx is a more appropriate salary. If this amount is in your original range, even better! They may not necessarily give it to you, but interviews aren’t only for them to select a candidate – they’re for you to learn about the position, as well, and often information comes out that makes you see the position differently.

  154. K, Esq.*

    I finally told my co-worker that I don’t need to know every time she goes to the bathroom (she announces EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.) We’re in a tiny office so everyone can hear when anyone closes the bathroom door. Apparently because our boss walked in on her by accident once in 13 years, she MUST tell us all. Then she told me I was grouchy. No, I just really don’t want to know about your bathroom trips.

    1. Margaret*

      I think you are being a bit grouchy. What harm is it – maybe she wants to make sure there’s cover in the office when she’s going?

      1. KK*

        I don’t think she’s being grouchy. I mean, every single time she uses the restroom? Who wouldn’t get irritated at that? Assuming she said it politely, I see NOTHING wrong with that!

      2. K, Esq.*

        The harm is that I am an attorney and her announcements break my focus without a good reason. It’s not an issue of coverage. Her specific rationale is that she didn’t want to be walked in on while using the bathroom. The bathroom has a working lock which would prevent this non-problem. I don’t know if she uses the lock because I don’t try to open the closed bathroom door, which is always cracked open when not in use. I was polite when I asked.

  155. Dawn*

    My husband’s department is having their Halloween costume contest today, and there’s a guy who’s dressed up in a full fursuit.

    If you don’t know what that is, don’t google that at work, and don’t google it with safe search off!

    1. Anonymous store info*

      I was pretty sure I knew what that meant, but I looked it up to make sure, and my phone helpfully told me about a craft supply store in the area JUST for fursuit supplies!

  156. Silver*

    Anybody have rants/complaints/stories about people not reading manuals or really bad manuals?

    I’m a contractor helping with redoing teapot packaging. I keep having people who came on a week after me come and ask how to do something, when I know they have the instructions and I double-check in the instructions to make sure I remember right.

    Then we have a new manual for a different part of the work and it just sucks. It doesn’t tell how to do it at all, just the things we need to do and what settings to use for it. That’s not a manual for gosh sakes!

    1. Elle Em*

      It’s not about reading manuals, but people at my workplace frequently don’t read e-mails. Sometimes I have to just say things out loud rather than write them down due to the lack of reading comprehension on their part, so it’s possible that’s what’s happening with people asking you questions that are in the manual. That’s not to say it isn’t crazy frustrating and I definitely agree with you that they need to read the manual!

    2. JulieBulie*

      I WRITE manuals. Then I give them to the engineers to review for accuracy. Sometimes one of them will comment that I “forgot” to mention this thing or that thing… thing is literally right next to their comment.

      Or they don’t comment on something, and a year later I’m told that something is missing. OK… wish they’d noticed when they did the review.

      1. Silver*

        Yeah, I’m struggling with the project manager to get them to actually review and give feedback on the docs I’m working on. Makes me want to tear my hair out

      2. Someone else*

        Yeah I get both of these too. “On page 25, it doesn’t say if ….” That is the first thing on page 26.
        Or the dreaded year later “Oh yeah, I thought that was weird but I figured I just didn’t understand it so I didn’t say anything” when like…a whole sentence was missing, conspicuously so.

  157. LizB*

    I officially reached my last straw with my boss at my part-time job this week, so I put in my notice. Boss now has over two months to find a replacement – due to the nature of the work, there is a natural transition point at the end of the calendar year where a new person could easily step in. She of course tried to convince me to stay (while insisting she was “just spitballing ideas, not trying to convince you to stay”) but I’m proud that I held firm. I like the work, but it’s not the right fit for my life anymore, and the boss herself sucks and isn’t going to change.

    Especially rich: her saying, “I hope you can recognize all the hours put in to [routine tasks that are the bare minimum of her job description, and didn’t even resolve the problem I was asking her to help resolve].” YOU ARE A FULL TIME EMPLOYEE WITH BENEFITS, there’s your effing recognition. You are paid money to support me, and you are not supporting me. I do not also have to fall all over myself to be grateful for the ineffective help you reluctantly provide.

  158. Elle*

    Currently, scheduling meetings takes about 2-3 hours and I want to make scheduling meetings easier and less time consuming for me to do (or for my intern to do; I need him working on actual projects during that time). Does anyone have advice on how to get my supervisor to stop dismissing my proposals for efficiency?

    When I started at this company three years ago, I was entry level and 10% of my time was administrative. Technically that still stands but I’ve had a promotion and taken on a large portfolio of substantial work. My supervisor (I’ll call him John) knows I’m overworked and is sympathetic about that to a point (e.g. won’t demand work be done if it isn’t time, helped recruit an intern to help me).

    What I don’t understand is why John won’t help me make scheduling meetings for him and our other coworker, “Jane,” more efficient by taking my suggestions.

    The meeting are always John, Jane, and an external partner. He’ll send me an initial e-mail that says, “schedule meetings with our external partners Mike, Jim, Larry, and Ann.”

    I’ll send him back an e-mail that says, “What are the meetings about and what times are you available?”

    He’ll say, “Oh, right! They’re about changing the teapot distribution system in America and I’m available Tuesday and Thursday morning. My calendar is up to date.”

    I don’t really know what “morning” means – it’s always a guessing game. Sometimes it’s 9-11, sometimes it’s 10 -12, etc. So then I’ll send an e-mail back and say, “Just to clarify, you’re available 10 – 12 on Tuesday and Thursday, right?”

    And then he’ll send an e-mail that says, “Actually I have an early morning meeting on Tuesday and I’m at a conference on Thursday. So I’m free 10:30 – 1 on Tuesday and Wednesday afternoon.”

    …You can see where this is going with Wednesday afternoon, right? And yet, every time I ask for his availability, he says “my calendar is up to date” BUT IT NEVER IS. Jane does the same, and her calendar truly never is up to date because of a syncing issue with her phone. No matter how many times over the past three years I’ve insisted that their calendars are inaccurate, they refuse to take the time to actually LOOK at their calendars and write down numerical times to give me. I have to physically walk to each of their offices individually at a time when the door is open, get them to open their calendar, notice that they have appointments in their head that aren’t on the calendar, and verbally tell me times.

    Quite frankly, I don’t have time for this nonsense anymore and I don’t think it’s too much to ask that they either:
    A) list out the numerical times and dates of availability, or
    B) take a doodle poll that I make for them.
    After the last fiasco in which John spoke on both of their behalves even though none of those times worked for Jane, I sent both of them an e-mail saying, “It seems like we’re having trouble coordinating schedules! :) From now on, please send me your availability as numerical times and dates, which will help me greatly. Thanks so much!”

    Then he came over to my desk to insist that the system isn’t broken, his calendar is always up to date and when I said that my experience was that it was NEVER up to date he just said, “well it is!” and we ended the conversation.

    I’m going out of my mind. I’m so upset that he’s invalidating my real experiences and refusing to change things. Before I go over his head to his boss (whom I know will agree with my suggestions to streamline the scheduling process), how can I explain to John how 1) hurtful his comments are and 2) inefficient his system is? I’m struggling to find words that will get through to him. ☹ Suggestions greatly appreciated.

    1. Thursday Next*

      Do you have access to his calendar to schedule directly on it? If not, he should grant you that access so you can see for yourself what availability he has. And if you happen to schedule over something he only had in his head, then that should be his incentive to keep things updated on his calendar.

      1. Elle*

        That’s the point. I do have access to his and Jane’s calendar, which are never up to date. I’ve tried that approach before, and all that happens is more work for me, because I have to backtrack with the external partner and say, “oops, schedule was wrong!” These are really high-powered and important external partners, too, and I’ve had to backtrack on multiple occasions. John and Jane haven’t learned.

        1. Thursday Next*

          Have you approached John or Jane and asked them to help, in a “I need your assistance to resolve this” type of way? Explain that scheduling is a 10 step process, it takes 2-3 hours every day, there is always the risk of getting it wrong and having to reschedule big wigs, etc., and then put it in their court to fix? Is it possible that they don’t quite realize the scope and impact they have?

          1. Elle Em (changing my name since there are two Elles on today)*

            Hmm, I’d only thought about talking to just John, but if I talk to them together, that may help the situation–Jane is more reasonable (she at least acknowledges the amount of hours, even if she’s reluctant to change her ways). Now that I think about it, I have a meeting with John, Jane, and “Robert” (my grandboss/their boss–they have the same boss) on Monday about something else. What I might do is take 5 minutes at the end of the meeting to talk about this with John & Jane–with Robert still in the room, because I know he’ll encourage them to be reasonable. I think it can be resolved if I do it that way. Thanks!

    2. KMB213*

      I have this same issue – my boss’ calendar is always “up to date,” but, in actuality, is always missing things. He has a lot of personal appointments due to a divorce and several health problems – I have a decent idea of what business-related calls and meetings he has coming up, and can ask if he finalized XYZ meeting if I don’t see it on his calendar (he does about half of his own scheduling, I do the other half), but I can’t/don’t know what personal obligations he has and he NEVER puts them on his calendar. I’ve mentioned it to him several times, but to no avail.

      So, I don’t have any advice, but I thought I’d commiserate.

  159. The Crusher*

    TL,DR: Academia presents difficulties.

    I teach Teapot Science at a community college. We have a closely designed Teapot Practice department but are separate, and I belong to a larger dustpan Social Science department that does not include Teapot Practice. (If you can guess my discipline based on this, you get a cookie!)

    I am the only full time Teapot Scientist in my department and I have a bullpen of dedicated adjuncts teaching along with me. The department has always required a single textbook, because student student generally take two intro courses together (Teapot Firms and Teapots Across the United States). Most textbooks cover both topics and offer split versions that cover only one, just by basically chopping the book in half. It’s come time to select a book, which may be the current one or may be a new choice, for next year. The splits are very expensive, relative to the cost of the full books, and because of the way the publishers set up access, a student whose professor assigns online resources from a full book cannot buy a cheaper split access code and access the resources. (Why? Lord knows, but my publisher reps tell me it can’t be done.) The full texts cost around $300.

    One of the adjuncts is complaining nonstop about his right to academic freedom. He literally comes to see me every day he’s on campus to “chat,” and always turns the topic to the textbook decision. I’ve told him several times that I value his opinion and have heard it. I’ve also told him I will consider his preferred book along with the others in the field, but realistically his choice of book isn’t very good and many of the other adjuncts bristle at using it. Allowing him to choose his own book will mean students who are unlucky enough to register for one course with him and the other with another instructor will have to pay for two complete textbooks, which is unacceptable. Since he’s an adjunct, his assignments come out after registration begins, and since our classes fill fast, it’s difficult for students to wait it out for a particular adjunct. (My classes are assigned early but fill almost immediately.)

    This is an intro class teaching standard material. He has a significant amount of freedom in how he presents that material. I don’t see this as an academic freedom issue. He’s also complained that our current textbook is “really” written by the author’s wife (who is credited as the second author), which is gross and sexist.

    I dread him stopping by every day. I can’t fire him because of adjunct seniority rules. What should I say to him to stop the constant stream of repeated complaints?

    1. Reba*

      Have you said you don’t want to talk about this anymore? That it is what it is? He knows all your reasons for doing it this way, he just doesn’t agree or doesn’t accept that he’s not going to get his way.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Yes. Actually tell him that because the decision has been made, you are no longer entertaining additional discussions. Any time he brings it up after that, you can say, “We talked about how that’s not a topic for discussion any longer. Was there anything else you wanted to discuss?”

        1. The Crusher*

          Thank you both for your responses. Like so many letter writers, I guess I’m not being blunt enough with the person causing me issues. I’ll keep you guys in mind next time I see him!

          The incomplete thought from the beginning of the post, incidentally, is that he usually teaches in the Teapot Practice department and thinks that we are too theoretical over here. I’d love for him to retire any day.

          1. Reba*

            If there is one thing I have learned on this site, it is that other people will never, ever get the hints that seem reasonable or even totally transparent to the polite hinter.

            Good luck and hope the rest of the semester goes smoothly!

    2. fposte*

      Wait, how did we get to firing? You haven’t even told him to stuff a sock in it. Tell him to stuff a sock in it. “Fergus, we’ve had this discussion; it’s a done deal. It’s not reasonable to rehash it, so unless you want to talk about something else I’m ending the discussion and going back to grading.” And if he says, “But wife!book!freedom!” you say “Okay, that’s not something else; you have to leave now.” If you’re in an office with a door, stand up, escort him out, and close the door.

      (I think you may have felt telling him “I value his opinion and have heard it” was “Stuff a sock in it.” It’s nowhere near.)

      1. The Crusher*

        Well, the firing is really a fantasy based on the fact that he’s not very good in the classroom, but point taken!

  160. MuseumMusings*

    So, part of my admin job is being the on-site HR person (mostly sending out emails and gathering forms), but our company’s blog is doing a series on getting hired in Teapot Making and asked me to write an article on dealing with HR in small teapot companies (where everyone wears a bunch of hats). I wrote it up, heavily referencing AAM and Alison, and just about every single director and hiring manager has come to me to tell me what a great article it was!

    It’s really bolstered my happiness level and I’m so happy that I found this advice and community and was able to share it with others. Thanks guys!

  161. Offer Dilemma*

    I’ve been very, very lucky, and received 4 offers this month – I’ve narrowed it down to the two offers on the table, both paying close enough to the same to be essentially the same.
    One in the field I trained in (A), one a step up in the field that I work in (B). (And I like both fields, but I lean towards the one I trained in).
    The one is my field (A) has better immediate people (i.e. boss and people I supervise), and the one in the field I work in (B) has better people around me (i.e. the people that I would bounce ideas off and work closely with, though not on everything – other team leads).
    Both support my professional development, (A) with formal training paid for at their expense, (B) with a budget to support me continuing to present at conferences, which I started 2 years ago.
    (A) is a new position with big responsibilities being re-aligned under it, but (B) I would be taking over an established position with some big growth projects in the budget/2 year plan.
    Both have health benefits, and (A) has a full vested contribution that would start in 6 months, while (B) takes five years to fully vest, but will pay out whatever I’ve contributed before that point if I leave.
    We like the city of (B), where we have never lived, more than the town of (A), where we currently live. Cost of living in the two is very, very similar.
    However, (B) means flights to see family, while (A) is driveable to see both my family, and our three small nieces. (B) is near a much larger city that means flights out of (B) or nearby city will be cheap(ish), but will mean more cost in that area of the budget.
    Any help here?

    1. Havarti*

      You might be better off making a chart of the things you listed above and putting a check mark in the A or B column for each and then see if one has more checks than the other. Where do you want your career to go? How important is seeing family? You like a city you’ve never lived in – would you still like it after living there? Do you find yourself secretly leaning towards one over the other? These are all things you need to think about and discuss with your family/partner/whoever is part of your “we” as a bunch of strangers on the internet aren’t going to be able to make the final decision for you. Good luck!

      1. Offer Dilemma*

        I appreciate it! The above was a summary of the chart my partner and I made – we thought it was funny that it broke so even. They are still rather up in the air about staying in their own field, and they got to pick the last destination, so the chart reflects their input, but we were both looking for new angles.

        1. Havarti*

          Ok, do you find yourself leaning towards one or the other then? Or what if you made the chart without their input?

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      So much of which set of benefits is better is based on personal preference.

      In situations like this, I’ve found it helpful to make a table. One column is company A, one is company B, one is “Edge,” and going across, you have factors you find important. Then you put two or three words in the company columns about what each company offers on that factor, and in the “Edge” column you say which company wins on that factor.

      I realize that might be a bit like what you’ve done in the paragraph above, but for me putting it in a table often causes the right answer to jump out because the “Edge” column will favor one option heavily over the other.

  162. Lentils*

    Hi everybody! I’m actually asking this on behalf of my wife, who is shy.

    She recently (2016) completed her master’s degree in library science, and her ultimate goal is to get some kind of library work, preferably a medical or other non-traditionally “library” environment. (Basically she’d be fine in a regular library but she doesn’t do well with kids and wouldn’t want a school or children’s librarian position.) In the meantime, she spent most of this year applying to retail and admin jobs because there were a decent amount of openings in our area, and that’s largely been where her experience is.

    She got a part-time position at an optics chain store in August. She loves parts of this job, because she’s a big glasses nerd, but the corporate demands like the (suddenly changing to be way more rigid) dress code and how they dictate her idle time are starting to wear on her after having come from a way worse retail environment that she was in last year. She’s been idly applying to library jobs here and there, but now she really wants to try to get out of this job by next spring.

    Basically, she’s wondering at which point she will have worked at this place long enough for it not to raise red flags if she leaves. Her longest job previously was about 10 months. We’re genuinely not sure, since it’s retail, and I figured I’d ask y’all since a lot of you have way more work experience. Thank you!

    1. Havarti*

      It’s retail so I doubt anybody would be surprised if she didn’t spend much time in that job. She didn’t go to school to get into the career of selling glasses. If she jumped from office job to office job, that would raise a red flag. Good luck to your wife! Hope she finds something soon!

    2. Graciosa*

      She can leave any time, and no one will care.

      Retail jobs for people who get a degree and move into a different field are not subject to the same scrutiny as jobs in the chosen profession. Everyone understands that these are stop gaps.

      I do think that if she really wants a career in library work, she needs to invest some serious time and effort in finding a job in that field. The longer she delays, the more she will appear stale on the market. “Idle” application does not reflect the level of interest I would expect from someone looking for her first job in her chosen profession.

      Good luck

    3. Trout 'Waver*

      If she’s got a master’s degree and she’s working retail, nobody in her field is going to ask why she didn’t stay in retail longer. It’s a given that people with advanced degrees will seek to use those advanced degrees at the first opportunity.

      Futhermore, staying in retail for a long time could hurt her chances of getting a degree-relevant job.

    4. fposte*

      It depends what she’s looking at career-wise. I’m hoping that some of this is just because this information is coming secondhand, but I’m a little concerned about the way this is making the library market sound so I’m afraid I’m going to address matters other than the question asked :-). Medical librarianship is a hard track just to fall into these days; most people are studying for it already during library school (like school librarianship), and that and the “idly” applying for library jobs makes me wonder if she’s that focused on librarianship, graduate degree or no. What kinds of libraries did she like working at/volunteering at/doing practicums at during library school? Did she do any corporate librarianship? Is she doing any library work or volunteering now?

      More specific to the question, was the 10-month job following her degree, and if not, what was her job history between that and the glasses place? If she did work between the degree and the glasses place, why did she leave that job? What she might be dealing with here is the difference between retail job fluidity and that of other fields. From what I can see, 10 months and an even shorter part-time gig probably wouldn’t be a big deal in retail, but they’re not going to help her library candidacy; it honestly might make more sense to quit that one now, leave it off the resume, and do some library volunteering if the goal is a library job. It’s not like the difference between two months and seven months at part-time retail is going to make her into a more desirable library candidate.

    5. Librarian*

      Lots of free training opportunities for medical librarians here: https://nnlm.gov/training
      To be honest, if she doesn’t have an internship or some related experience, it’s going to be hard. Customer service is important, of course, but more so for library assistant jobs than for librarian jobs.
      I hope that it goes well.

      1. Lentils*

        Lazily just replying to the most recent comment, but thank you all for replying to me!

        I should’ve been a little more specific, sorry about that. (Was writing the post on a break at work and I only had 10 minutes haha) I’ll try to clear things up a bit.

        She had the 10-month optical job while she was getting her degree, and prior to that she had one seasonal job at a tax place and about 7-8 months at the Gap. She also got just over 2 years’ volunteering experience at her city’s medical library while she was in school. She didn’t have a ton of volunteering opportunities through her school because she did the program online, and the campus is on the other coast. She didn’t apply for paid jobs at the (pretty small) public library system in her town because we knew she’d be moving to my state once she finished her master’s. She quit her optical job and her volunteer job and moved to be with me at the beginning of January. The job market wasn’t great in her town, so retail and the one temp office job was all she could scrounge up while she was living at home. I should’ve specified that while she was living here, she was applying to a ton of library jobs as well as retail and admin, but it took her until August to find a place that would hire her. (Apparently retail places would see the master’s listed on her resume and get spooked, and very few of the library jobs granted her interviews or anything.)

        Now that she has the part-time job, she wanted to take a little while to settle into it before she got serious about applying for library jobs again (she has been paying some attention to library postings still, it’s just there hasn’t been much that has come up that she’s qualified for). She’s been gearing up to start looking again anyway, but since neither of us were sure about the etiquette I thought I’d ask here. (I just got a new job in June and before that I spent just over two years in a very, very bad job that I basically just stayed at so long out of lack of inertia. I don’t have a lot of knowledge of non-office jobhunting etiquette since I’ve only had a couple of short-term retail gigs.)

        Thank you so much for that link! I have been sort of half-heartedly nudging her about trying to get some kind of library volunteer gig here, but I should probably step that up a bit. I definitely agree that would be good for her professionally as well as personally. Anyway! Thank you all for your input, it’s very much appreciated. :)

        1. Lentils*

          Clarification, since I just realized “her city’s medical library” was a weird way to phrase that. Basically, a hospital in her city, she volunteered at their medical library.

    6. Another Academic Librarian*

      Leaving a retail job is not going to be a red flag no matter how long she has been there! Retail experience isn’t going to get her a librarian position. Although luckily her optics job has the benefit of demonstrating her customer service experience while also being somewhat medical-adjacent.

      Some thoughts about her situation:

      1. I second fposte’s concerns. The library job market is not great, and it is not going to be that easy for her to find a library job. When I was on the job market, I was checking major job sites every few days, setting up searches on job aggregators so they would email me positions, and clicking through the employment pages of all universities in my target geographic area every one or two weeks. I was also applying to EVERY job I was even remotely qualified for in my geographic area, as well as some in other geographic areas just to get used to the idea. And that was for general academic librarianship, not something as specialized and niche as medical librarianship. She should be doing a lot of thinking about where she’d like to work (hospitals, medical schools, corporations) and targeting her search there. (A lot of corporate libraries may not require the MLIS and may not even use the word “librarian,” for example.) She will probably need to plan to send a lot of time looking for positions, tailoring her resume and cover letter, and then actually applying.

      2. How is her librarian network? She went to school online and moved away from her volunteer experience, so it doesn’t sound like she has much of a network in your town. Networking is important, as sometimes I feel like all librarians know each other. This is more true the more specialized the positions are. Is there a local library association she could join? Could she join a committee or otherwise become active? Is there a mentoring program? In addition to state or other regional library associations, she will want to look for local chapters of the Medical Library Association or Special Libraries Association. A lot of chapters have meet-ups or other social/networking events. Is she still in touch with anyone from her volunteer job? (I hope so, as she will need the reference!) Maybe they know someone in your town who would be willing to meet with her for an informational interview and provide some guidance about how to get involved in local libraryland.

      3. Volunteer experience is good, but she should remember that the type of experience matters. She should definitely seek volunteer work, but it is worthwhile for her to be sure it will be the kind of volunteer work that will help her. For example, a volunteer position shelving books isn’t likely to help her much when searching for professional work. Working with users, teaching a workshop, or designing an exhibit will help her much more, because those are professional-level tasks. Good volunteer work can expand her network and (if it is substantial) give her another professional reference, both of which are just as or more important than the experience itself.

    7. NoTurnover*

      Another one who hopes she’s being realistic about what it will take to get a job in her field. Medical librarianship is a very small field with pretty infrequent openings, and it’s not uncommon for people to move cross-country for the right job multiple times in their career. Not sure how important geographic area is to you, but if you want to stay where you are, she may need to broaden her search beyond one subspecialty.

      And yeah, network, network, network. For medical librarianship MLA is the conference to go to, or some, not all, of the chapters (some are very small). Leadership opportunities in those groups are pretty accessible and will help her get to know people that can help her.

  163. Cut my losses?*

    I have been at my company for many years; I am currently one rung below the C-Suite as a direct report to our board of directors. My area is operations and risk management; this is not a huge organization (~120 people), and I wear a lot of hats. There has been some tension regarding roles and paths for growth for myself and various other employees who have been at this firm long-term. Basically, Old Boss stepped down a few years ago, and the (also long-term) employee who became New Boss has a very different approach. That overall approach is less transparent, less positive, and veers into micro-management. Many people do not feel trusted in our roles despite having held them for a long time in a successful company with a lot of smart, dedicated people. That newfound mistrust doesn’t seem rooted in anything other than the idea that if New Boss does not understand something, than we must be slacking off on the details/not doing our jobs appropriately. This is especially difficult for me and a few others that have very different backgrounds and areas of expertise than New Boss does. Because New Boss does not practice in our fields, New Boss’s approach is to devil’s advocate everything and assume that because something is not said, than obviously we didn’t consider it. My ability to summarize topics or triage my own workload has become very limited. In a recent meeting, when I was reporting on an issue to which we have few realistic responses, New Boss asked whether it was truly the case that our options were limited, or if instead I was “just too busy and just don’t want to spend a lot of time on it?” So New Boss basically asked if I was taking a dive on a topic that, not 15 minutes prior in the same conversation, New Boss volunteered unprompted that I know this area and New Boss does not. I am at a loss for what to do here. I don’t think working here is tenable in the long-term. Have you experienced anything like this? Was there a way to get through it, or did you ultimately have to move on?

    1. Graciosa*

      I have experienced something similar, and I’m sorry to say the only cure is a new boss.

      I wish I could say something different – it can be very hard to leave a company after a long tenure. It’s really annoying to have to do it because the new boss is a jerk.

      But the reality is that the new boss is the boss, and the new boss is a jerk. Try to think about it this way – if you knew what you know about this boss and were considering a brand new job working for this person, would you take it? This may help you mentally take the sunk-costs thinking out of the equation.

      Whatever time you have for the rest of your career is finite. Do you want to spend it working for this person?

      I’m sorry to say I think you’ll be happier moving on.

    2. Trout 'Waver*

      I’m a little confused. Is the new boss the head of the board of directors? If not, can you talk to the board of directors directly since you report to them? Treat it as any other issue that’s negatively impacting your work.

      1. Graciosa*

        I don’t think that will help.

        In a conflict between the new boss – selected by the board to lead the organization – and anyone else, the new boss is going to win. The exception would be very serious issues not in play here (embezzling, for example).

        The board isn’t going to get rid of him because another employee doesn’t like his management style.

      2. Cut my losses?*

        Trout ‘Waver, yes, New Boss is head of the BOD. I’ve also spoken with the other directors, who while they are sympathetic and supportive, no real change has occurred (like more defined career paths). They’ve discussed the micro-managing with New Boss as that affects billing, but that behavior has not changed either. I think I need to take that as their answer and polish up my resume.

  164. JD*

    Can we talk about getting through an especially bad “female” day at work. I truly feel bad for what feels like getting nothing done but I am starting to think I should just stay home next time. I cannot think straight, form a logical sentence, headache, my energy is drained like a vacuum sucked it out of me…and of course I am in pain! I have clients in the office today and my investor and I am making myself look incapable. I couldn’t answer some basic questions. I can’t exactly say “oh I know you are here from India for one day but I am out of it today”. Sigh. Of course I am expected to do a big dinner with everyone tonight as well. I just want to go home and lie down.

    I guess that was more of a vent, or a, cry for “been there babe”. Luckily my boss has three daughters and gives a ton of sympathy/leeway on days when I feel such a way but obviously I have to be on top of my game today. I cannot wait to get into sweat pants and take off this evil undergarment that is trying to kill me with its wires!!

    1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      Awww, honey I have TOTALLY been there. Have had every one of your symptoms and then some. The only way I got through those days were ibuprofen, caffeine, and staying away from the people that annoyed me the most. If someone would ask me how to spell my name, I’d have to think about it (I have a VERY easy first and last name). Hang in there, there’s sweatpants, a comfy piece of furniture and hopefully a lovely beverage for you just a-waitin!

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I am having a very similar day so I totally empathize.

      One thing that I’ve found is helpful for me is Red Tent tea by Adagio. I don’t know if it’s psychosomatic, but I find it helps mitigate my worst symptoms. I’m linking in my username.

      Hope you get to relax this weekend!

    4. strawberries and raspberries*

      I left work early yesterday for the same reason- I was so fatigued and I just could not concentrate. (My male director was like, “Are you getting sick? Are you patient zero?” and I was like, “There is absolutely no way I will transmit what I have to anyone else.” Another time I was in so much pain I just straight up told him I was having debilitating cramps, and he was actually really sympathetic and nice about it.) Drinking a lot of water also helps, and sometimes heating up those rice-filled things can feel good.

    5. JD*

      Thanks for the support guys. I think I can get out of dinner since it looks like it’ll be pretty late and looks like sushi, which I don’t like plus my boss is pulling for me since he knows I am dying here. In the meantime I did take some Advil but obviously that barely touches it. Just going to try to sleep standing up in the corner for a few mins.

    6. Havarti*

      My brain always displays “404 Not Found” when my period comes along. Or static. It’s annoying.

    7. LizB*

      Ugh, so been there. I actually bought some of those stick-on one-use heat pads to use on my lower back on really bad days, when all I want to do is be curled up around my heating pad.

      1. JD*

        Oh I love these and always have them on hand. They have saved me numerous times….sometimes just due to regular ol back pain.

        I got out of dinner. Curled up with my dog and my heating pad. Woohoo!

  165. Gina Linetti*

    I just got let go from a part-time gig I’ve had since July. My boss said she knows I was just hanging around until something better comes along.

    She offers me ten hours of work per week, fifteen if I’m lucky. Of COURSE I’m just hanging around until something better comes along.

  166. consulting*

    I’ve been looking to make the move into consulting. Anyone have any insights? Things to look out for? Where I should look for salary info? I’m in Boston, if location helps.

  167. swingbattabatta*

    Question for other people who work from home – how much does your Company subsidize (if any) your home office? Internet, or anything along those lines. We are expecting a baby next year, and space is going to be at a premium in our home until we can afford to move, and the best option we have right now is turning my home office into my toddler’s room (and putting the baby into her room). I’ve been researching office rentals, and there are some to the tune of $500 a month – I’d like to float this idea past my employer, but to-date, they don’t subsidize me at all, so this would be a new added cost.

    Possible relevant details – I work from home full time, I am the only employee to do so (we worked out a special arrangement, so I don’t have anyone else to ask at my company), and I have been in this set up for about a year and a half (two years by the time the baby comes). Also, I was discussing my home set up with another partner at my Company, and she expressed a lot of surprise that they don’t subsidize my internet (at the very least), as we have to pay for the highest speed possible to make my remote system access workable.

    1. CAA*

      $500/mo would not fly in my company. We do pay for Internet service for those who work from home full-time.

    2. zora*

      Have you looked into co-working spaces? Some of those are a little cheaper, WeWork has ‘Dedicated Desks’, which means a permanent desk, but in an open office space with other people, starting at $350/month. And there are smaller coworking companies that are a little bit cheaper, from what I understand. My boyfriend is considering broaching the topic at his work, for people who don’t want to commute all the way to silicon valley every day.

    3. Red Reader*

      I’ve worked fully remotely for over three years now, and my entire team is also remote. Our org subsidizes remote-working not at all. They provide my computer and monitors (and mouse, keyboard, phone headset). any other supplies or setup I feel that I need are my responsibility to provide. Ours is a fully paperless office, in my role, so I think I’ve gone through about half a pad of sticky notes in the last three years, and I don’t have any significant expenses like printer paper/ink (not allowed anyway) to invest in. We have a minimum bandwidth/speed required for our home internet, but mine is a houseful of computer gamers, so we’d have a higher tier anyway whether I worked at home or not.

    4. NeverNicky*

      I work from home full time and am the only person in my organisation to do so.

      We already had high speed broadband and all inclusive call package so I haven’t asked my employer to contribute. We’ve just moved house and needed a new desk etc but we paid for those as likely these will outlast my working career – but employer has paid for specialist stuff (foot rest, monitor stand).

      As it isn’t a requirement to be working remotely but my personal choice – and I work for a charity – I try to keep the arrangement as cost neutral and fair to us both as possible. There’s no way they would pay for an external office, nor an allowance towards a bigger place.

    5. Anon for This*

      Where I work, people who telecommute 100% of the time, get a laptop provided, but they are responsible for their own internet and phone service. For those of us who work part time at home and part time in the office, we don’t get anything.

    6. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Are there any co-working spaces near you? What about something like that?

    7. LNLN*

      My company sent my whole team to work from home 7 years ago. They gave me my computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer, headset, phone and office chair. They pay my monthly internet bill. They would have supplied me with a desk if I wanted, but I already had one.

  168. Maybe Someday*

    I don’t know if this is work related or not; I need pants recommendations. Does anybody have great recommendations for plus size, business casual black pants that are stretchy and fitted like leggings or yoga pants. I’ve tried regular dress pants and trousers, and they are so baggy around the thighs and rear. It is Not Flattering and Not Comfortable.

    1. Thursday Next*

      My go-to place for all things business-comfy-stretchy is Dress Barn. Nearly all my pants have come from there.

    2. Teapot Librarian*

      Have you tried Talbots? I am not plus size so don’t know how their plus sizes fit, but I’ve bought stretchy business trousers from there with success.

      1. periwinkle*

        I’m a petite plus and pretty much live in Talbots. For trousers they have several different “fits”; you may have to try on the different basic styles but once you find the right one, they’re consistent. I am totally hooked on their Flawless Five-Pocket jeans (which also come in non-denim-y colors) and routinely wear the black ones to work. FFP jeggings, too. Dear sweet Gord I love their FFP jeggings. When I don’t think I can get away with jeans styling, I switch to the Talbots Hampshire style. So yeah, Talbots plus size is awesome.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Torrid has a good selection of stretchy fitted pants, although many of them have low waists.

    4. Jillociraptor*

      Old Navy has two newish styles that might fit the bill — the Stevie legging and a Pixie skinny ponte knit pant/legging. They are both extremely comfortable and decently nice looking. The Stevie leggings have seams down the front, which I really like. I recently bought both styles and have really liked them–plus, they’re relatively inexpensive.

      1. Effie, who is herself, and is moving forward without self judgement*

        My plus-sized friend loves the Stevie leggings for work.

    5. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      ASOS Curve has reasonably priced leggings, trousers, “treggings” that are fairly fashionable for Plus sized ladies.

  169. MsChanandlerBong*

    I have to hang on to my job for at least another year (we’re buying a house, so we need stable income), but boy is it getting hard. My boss is a nice guy, but he and I approach things in very different ways. My job is to edit and approve content written by a stable of freelance writers. I love to coach people and provide positive feedback, but I do not believe a “professional writer” should have to be taught when to use the definite article and when not to use it. I do not believe that writers who fail to follow instructions over and over again should be given 10 or 12 chances. Two or three chances, sure. But when writers don’t follow instructions, it’s bad for business, and it creates chaos on the managerial side of things. Our clients often give us tight deadlines, so when a writer does not follow directions and turns in unusable content three hours before it’s due, then the content managers have to scramble to re-do the assignment themselves or find an available writer to do it–and then we have to increase the assignment payout to account for the rush job. I am all about creating a positive environment, but I do not think we should retain people who can’t follow basic directions. However, my boss doesn’t seem to agree.

    1. Murphy*

      we’re buying a house, so we need stable income

      I read that as “we’re buying a horse so we need stable income” and was going to complement you on the amazing pun.

      I think you’re right, but I don’t think you’ll get very far if your boss doesn’t agree. Is the content you’re getting completely unusable, or just in need of heavy editing? If it’s the latter, can you give the writers a deadline further in advance of the client deadline to allow time for editing?

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        Some of it requires heavy editing, and some is completely unusable. That’s another problem. I’ve been told we don’t have time to edit every doc from beginning to end, but I’ve *also* been informed that we need to get our revision rate below 10%. Well, if we’re not editing to catch major errors, we’re going to get revision requests. If we actually took time to edit, we’d probably be able to reduce our revision rate pretty substantially. Unfortunately, clients decide when content is due. If a client orders at 8:00 on a Friday, she might want it back by 8:00 the next day.

    2. Havarti*

      Oh man, that stinks. It pains me when I help with proofing, point out that a translation is wrong, and get told that’s what the client wants so it stays. So I just had to quietly stop giving a damn. As my boss once said, not without sympathy: “You still got paid at the end of the day.” If you gotta tough it out for another year, maybe try disconnecting a bit since it doesn’t sound like your boss is much help? View it more as a paycheck with an end goal of the house being purchased and then get out?

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        Yeah, I think that’s what I’ll do. I’ll pay off debt and buy a house, and then I’ll have the freedom to look elsewhere.

  170. Elle*

    So, I got hired by, and work directly for, a guy who also happens to be a good friend of mine. I’ve known him for years, though we were out of touch for much of that time.

    Here’s the thing. He’s really great in a lot of ways. He’s incredibly intelligent, and committed to doing things rather than just talking about them, and wants to solve problems, and is good at thinking outside of the box. What’s more, he’s also very willing to listen to feedback, and apply it. Maybe it’s because we’re friends, but we have regular discussions where either he asks me or I volunteer suggestions for what he should be doing differently in a given situation. He’s smart as hell, and so has the ego to match, but at the same time, he listens, which is not nothing!

    And here’s the OTHER thing. He’s also incredibly abrasive and can come across as really rude. I can say with all honesty that he’s a difficult boss and I see by others’ reactions that he’s generally difficult for many people to deal with. He yells a lot, is curt and abrupt. And a large part of my role is mitigating that, being the oil on the gears.

    I just got off the phone with a very important client, who confessed that she found me much easier to deal with than him; she said, frankly, when he was last there, he “offended nearly everyone in the office.”

    This isn’t, honestly, a surprise. That’s what he does. What I’m trying to figure out is what to do about it. Part of me thinks that b/c he’s so good at listening I should have a frank conversation with him. The other part of me thinks—well, this is a professional issue. I should maybe get the client to speak to my boss’s boss so they can have that discussion.

    Thoughts, o commentariat?

    1. fposte*

      I think “professional issue” doesn’t necessarily mean “somebody else talks to him.” The client told you this in your professional capacity.

      You could start with “Hey, Bob, if a client tells me something about working with you that’s relevant to your relationship with vendors, do you want me to tell you?” It’s slightly craven, in that it’s hard to say no to but then he’s not really allowed to be annoyed with you if you tell him, but I think it’s for a good cause. Ideally you could also have 2-3 specific tips of things he could do or avoid doing that would make people happier to give him their money. In this case presumably the bottom line is the actual bottom line.

      1. fposte*

        BTW, one of those tips could be a suggestion that you handle more front end stuff while he handles more backend stuff. He might prefer that to changing anything about himself.

    2. Havarti*

      This is a bit messy. Yes, it’s definitely a professional issue but I don’t think you want to involve the client in this. You could possibly go to your boss’s boss with what the client said but asking the client to lodge a complaint may leave the client wondering why you need outside help to fix this issue after they already told you he was rude to them. Leave it up to your grandboss on whether the client should be involved further.

      As for talking to him yourself… He’s a good friend. He’s now your boss. You say he’s good at listening. Does that mean that at no point in his career thus far, no one has ever told him “hey, you really come across as rude and abrasive and that’s hurting our business?” You have an in as his friend but be careful. He may go full “boss” mode on you and your friendship will crumble. Being a friend is not the same as being an underling. He may listen. He may not. He may become defensive. You, his friend, are saying something potentially mean to him about his behavior/personality. Are you prepared for the worst? As in like you may need to leave this job and not be friends with him any more?

    3. Elle*

      (To be clear, I’m not the same Elle as the other one here! Sorry about that. Should have been more original in my username.)

  171. Anonymity*

    My job is driving me nuts. More my department management and HR, I guess; I generally like the actual work that I do. Much of this is because a co-worker with insider info can’t keep a secret for anything and tells me everything. Without that, I would be happily clueless.

    1. A coworker who teleworks periodically elected to do so once last week due to car trouble. This has been declared an unauthorized change in schedule by our manager, as said coworker -usually- works from the head office. Under our ridiculous points-based attendance system, this gets the CW in trouble. For working a full day, doing his job, just at home instead of the office, because he isn’t psychic and therefore didn’t ask in advance if he could do something now that he will be expected to do in winter when the roads are too bad for driving in anyway!

    2. Grandboss indicated to coworker-who-overshares that those of us who are experts in our respective areas should not be doing hands-on work as much as we are, and if any of us don’t like that, we may need to “part ways.” This is alarming in part because I was hired for expertise gained in doing this hands-on work, I am acknowledged by multiple departments for my expertise (due to this hands-on work), and the hands-on work part of my job is the part of my job that I enjoy!

    3. We have a problem employee (several, really) and after providing massive amounts of evidence regarding the most egregious one, who recently broke the terms of a PIP, HR has hand-waved away the consequences. Our manager can’t actually let this employee go unless HR signs off on it.

    4. We’ve had the recent ‘anonymous survey’ that is not anonymous. This makes me nervous as considering #3, I was honest and not kind on mine, but was unaware of just HOW not-anonymous it was until after I had submitted it (as oversharing CW was given a list of employees who had not yet submitted theirs).

    1. Morning Glory*

      In terms of the survey, my org did one recently as well. I can see why that list may be concerning, but it does not necessarily mean that the survey is not anonymous.

      The survey org we used tracked responses by who clicked the link in the email and then hit submit on the form – it was a computer-generated tracking system. It did not track the actual content of the surveys, which was aggregated at the answer level. Hopefully it’s a similar situation for you!

    2. Kathenus*

      I’d suggest that you stop engaging in these discussions with the chatty coworker. Tell them you’re not comfortable hearing confidential information. Rinse and repeat as needed.

    3. Alice*

      Can you do this work at a different organization? It doesn’t sound like a great environment. And avoiding the gossipy coworker won’t really change that (though it might change how much you have to think about it).

  172. Pudgy Patty*

    A comment on one of the recent posts got me to thinking: How do you define “working your ass off” for yourself? I think my definition is very different than others, because to me, “working hard” means working more than 40 hours a week, not having a social life outside of work, thinking about work all the time, and generally being a super overachiever. By this definition, I never live up to working hard, because I just work to pay the bills and to take away precious time from my personal life for the purposes of work is something I just can’t get behind.

    On the flip side, aside from the occasional 5-minute dalliance on this blog, I work from the second I open my laptop to when I leave at night. My partner and other friends somehow manage to get on their personal social media, write personal emails, catch up on the news. I literally do not know what happens during the day outside of work. My ethos is to be efficient, productive, and get the eff out at 5pm because I want to go home and be where I actually want to be for the day.

    But I don’t think this is how people define hard work. So I’m curious what that means for you.

    1. Little Twelvetoes*

      I do not define “hard working” as working more than 40 hours a week on a regular basis and having no social life. I would define it as being reliable, focusing on work during work time, and avoiding too many distractions. I would include “being open to working additional hours in a crunch”, but in my humble opinion, the best “hard workers” know how to have a decent work/life balance.

      1. beanie beans*

        ^^^Yep!

        I also feel kind of irritated when one of my coworkers who constantly stays late is always praised as so hard working despite the fact that I am about twice as efficient as he is in getting things done. Yes he works hard. And I work hard and then go home. Lots of room for interpretation.

        1. Pudgy Patty*

          This is kind of what I’m getting at, I suppose. I like being efficient, but that does not seem to count as “working hard” to employers. I’ve done well for myself at work, but when it comes to the big promotions, I would not get them because my hard work is not enough (i.e. I’m not going to stay late and think about nothing but my job in my free time). And I supposed that’s fine! It just seems like work/life balance is not something leadership/senior staff is allowed to have.

  173. a girl has no name*

    I did a phone interview on Wednesday, and I am so unsure about how it went. I know I spoke fast, and I sounded nervous. I am very qualified for the position, but I had a few nervous habits (fast talking, nervous laughing) How much does stuff like this count against you?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It depends on the type of job. If it’s one where public presentation/being poised and polished really matters, it’s going to matter more than if it’s, say, coding.

        1. fposte*

          1) practice–have friends or any relevant career center that offers give you some mock interviewing time
          2) think of alternatives rather than just suppressing. Is there a presenter or podcaster whose voice has what you think of as a good pace? Can you practice trying to match your answers to that speed? Can you figure out when your nervous laugh comes up and divert the impulse to sipping water, or closing your mouth firmly and thoughtfully (often a nervous laugh is kind of an alternative end-sentence punctuation; if you can find another way to own/signal to yourself that you’ve finished your answer that might help)?

        2. Becky*

          This is actually something I learned and kept with me since I took a public speaking class in college, but has server me well!
          It is a tiny thing, but any time you find yourself about to use a filler word (“um” or “uh”) just take a breath instead of saying it. Most people will notice the filler words more than the brief pause and you will generally sound more focused in your speech. So apply the same thing to your nervous laugh–try taking a breath instead.

    2. Kathenus*

      I had this happen to me once. In my thank you email I briefly addressed it, something along the lines of ‘ I enjoyed talking with the panel and learning more about the position and organization. Apologies for my nervousness at times, I’m very excited about this opportunity and look forward to continuing to learn more.’ Or something like that. I actually had one person reply back to me that they enjoyed talking to me too and didn’t think I sounded nervous. Everyone might not agree with potentially calling more attention to it, but it made me feel better to bring it up, so I went ahead and did so. Definitely agree with the fposte on practicing as well. Good luck!

  174. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

    The anxiety was well-founded; I was nearly in tears today – my boss just has a knack for making me doubt myself at every turn, but today she even did it in front of friendly consultant which my overthinking brain has now translated to “welp, that’s THAT bridge burned before you had a chance to cross it”. I’m just so tired of it all.
    I don’t feel like I can leave either, because I don’t have any formal qualifications to list on my resume, only experience; lots and lots of experience. But any time I look for alternatives (in rare bouts of optimistic confidence), it looks like I need a degree to get a job doing what I KNOW I can already do. (I have vocational qualifications, but not a “degree”).
    Ugh. Ranting hasn’t helped this week. I need a bath and a hot chocolate and a good cry, I think…

    1. Havarti*

      A bath, hot chocolate, a good cry, and maybe a fun movie sound really good right now *Jedi hugs* Listen, you should try to apply to those jobs anyway. Yeah, so you don’t have the degree but you have the experience. That’s frickin’ valuable. More valuable than a piece of paper. Usually the jobs want a degree OR experience. Maybe you can look into getting a degree through a program for working adults but you should try applying first anyway. Job listings have all sorts of dumb stuff. Like if they could put “Must be a unicorn” they would. Go easy on yourself this weekend. Take care!

    2. Anon for This*

      Apply anyway to those jobs. Where I work we require a degree (and often graduate degree’s) for almost anything. However, we have hired people with extensive experience before without a degree. It’s not something that we do a lot and not for all positions, but we do it occasionally, because experience matters a lot and in some roles it matters more than a degree.

      So toss your hat into the ring. You never know who your competition will be and if your experience will be considered more valuable than you think.

    3. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

      Thank you for your support on this!
      The bath is occupied, so I’ve had a little sob into my mug of hot chocolate and I feel clearer now.
      I’m going to have a lie in tomorrow, and then start prepping my Master Resume with a clear head in the morning.
      Much love to AAM & this Community!

  175. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

    No question this week, just a feeling.

    That time in your code where you realize you have to reconfigure everything you just spent the week building…

    At least I figured it out.

    Happy Friday!

    1. Elle Em (changing my name since there are two Elles on today)*

      I KNOW THAT FEELING! The time consumption of figuring out where the code is broken is so frustrating. I’ve also had that feeling while working in Access! We have this critical database that was built 17 years ago so it’s in Access and dealing with the macros for it are a pain in the butt. :6 At least you figured out the problem, and now you can go forward!

    3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Ah, yes. All my LaTeX documents, trying to find that one missing bracket or misplaced command, usually at 3am before a deadline when I was too tired to focus on the screen properly.

  176. ElectricKatyland*

    I know it’s late in the day for a new post, but I could use some guidance on submitting my notice. I work remotely, so I will likely resigning over the phone. It’s my first time leaving a job that didn’t have a pre-set end date. Here’s the scenario: My current role is equivalent to a project coordinator and I work closely with three different directors/PIs. I do not see any of them face-to-face regularly. Driving three hours for a face-t0-face meeting to resign would be weird. Should I set up mysterious/’red flag’ calendar appointments for a phone call with the directors? Is there a less awkward way to do that? Surely I don’t email first that I’m resigning? I’ve been in this position for five years, and it’s in academia, if it makes a difference. Thanks in advance for any advice!

    1. Argh!*

      You might ask HR what to do. There may be others who have been in your shoes.

      I often don’t read AAM until late in the day, so I often decide to read up from the bottom instead of from the top. :-) Just wanted you to know that!

    2. Sualah*

      Could you IM them first and ask when they have some free time for you to call? That seems a little less ominous than just setting the calendar appointment with no warning at all. If it seems they want to keep talking over IM, you can say something like, “Oh, well, if you’re free, can I give you a call now?”

      Disclaimer: that’s how I handled telling my remote boss that I was pregnant, which I know is not the same thing as quitting, and I am not in academia.

      1. ElectricKatyland*

        Thank you!!! Our HR has a reputation for being full of leaks, unfortunately, and I would want to make sure I broke the news myself. The IM-to-set-up-a-call seems like a great approach.

  177. Printpup*

    Is taking PTO at all small nonprofit companies an impossible juggling act or is it just my dysfunctional office? We have a retail/sales side, an office side, and a warehouse – which means 3 different teams and 3 different schedules. Think of it like this: we sell, make, and stock teapots, and also get teapots and teapot parts from other producers which we then sell and stock.

    The last times I’ve tried to take time off, I’ve had to come in because of some crisis. I have to use or lose my PTO before year end and *just* got handed a bunch of financial projects that 1) aren’t really my responsibility but there’s no one else who can do it and 2) need to be done before the end of the year. I’m allegedly entry level but also manage our teapot inventory, and have a lot of financial tasks to assist with.

    I’m about to say f* it, I’m taking my time off and I’m not going to make the time I had off in unpaid overtime (I’m salaried). I just kinda need some advice about how I do it and maybe some encouragement. This is my First Career Job. Our CEO has told me to “find him in the office” to chat with him about adjusting my schedule and responsibilities, but also regularly cancels meetings and leaves at 11am every day, so that might not happen for a while.

    1. Havarti*

      I just want to point out that this may be a job you will need to run away from before it sucks your soul dry. So take the PTO. As for how, how is it usually handled by your coworkers? After you take the time off, find the CEO and see what you can do about a promotion or something.

  178. Leena Wants Cake*

    My team handles volunteer recruiting for a non-profit org, and we just had a prospective volunteer ask to bring her “job coach” with her to her initial screening interview. What is up with that? I am at a loss. Has anyone ever encountered this phenomenon, and what does it mean?

    1. TCO*

      My guess is that this volunteer maybe has a disability or other barrier to employment, and her interview presents a good learning opportunity for her coach to observe (and potentially help encourage her during the interview). I’d happily allow her to bring the coach, but you could definitely ask her a question or two about the coach’s role in advance of the interview.

  179. Sad wombat is sad*

    Everything seems to be going well. I got accepted into an important leadership training program for my field. My rabble rousing efforts are finally paying off and creating a stable group of professionals. Work is busy and in good way with the things I love doing. I got a raise. Everything is going my way. Months and months of hard labour is finally paying off and I just don’t care. All I want to do is curl up in ball and cry.

    I don’t mean to dump all over everyone. I do have an appointment to see a therapist in a few weeks but in the meantime I’m open to any coping strategies to get through this without blowing all my hard work?

    1. Amber Rose*

      Cry if you want to. Sometimes a good cry is relaxing.
      If you’re at work and you want to cry, use that as your reward for not crying. “I can cry at home if I get this done.”
      Eat properly. Go to bed on time. Do your best to get enough sleep. Look clean and professional.
      Keep your work space organized.
      Lean on friends and loved ones. Build a Team Wombat.
      Be nice to yourself. You are doing your best, and you deserve to be happy, and you will be one day.

    2. Story Nurse*

      Depression is so hard. I’m really glad you’re seeing a therapist soon.

      Some short-term coping strategies that I’ve found useful:

      * Remember, this too shall pass. This Tumblr post might help with that.
      * Give yourself permission to let go of optional tasks right now. Keep your workload as light as possible. Consider taking some time off if that would be useful.
      * Take care of your physical self as much as you can: eat food that’s good for your body, in useful quantities; stay hydrated; get sleep if you can (some depressed people have trouble sleeping and some sleep a lot, so go with what’s possible for you); stay clean (if showers seem impossible, try sponge baths).
      * Don’t be afraid to lean on your friends and loved ones.
      * Maybe use a calendar to check off the days between now and your therapy appointment, and congratulate yourself on each day you get through.
      * Give yourself permission to be stressed by big changes, even positive ones. That is very common and totally allowed and there’s nothing wrong with you for feeling that way.
      * Watch and read and listen to things that cheer you up or are usefully cathartic.

      Hang in there. You’re doing all the right things to take care of yourself and you will feel good again someday.

    3. Morning Glory*

      Oh no, I am so sorry you are going through this. Do you have the option to listen to happy music or a fun podcast while doing work?

      There are days I have a lot of trouble not crying at my desk, and I’ll put on a playlist for Disney musical songs.

      Other coping strategies, for work: is there something that makes you feel fancy that’s not too weird to do at work, like drinking coffee from a french press or using a really nice pen? Those may sound silly, but having a small comfort you can use to self-soothe can be really effective.

    4. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

      Ok, so given my earlier post was about my own anxiety and having a hot chocolate, a bath and a good cry (the bath is occupied at the moment, so I’m going for two out of three), I have found one other thing that helps – breathing
      When you’re not at work (coz this takes a little practise), put on some quiet piano music in 4/4 time (simple rhythm, not a waltz), something that lasts about three minutes – if you are at work and are allowed headphones (I’m not!) it works there too. Then, breathe.
      Breathe in for four beats, and out for four beats – in through your nose, blow out through your mouth – gently, like you’re ruffling dog fur, not blowing out birthday candles! Next time, breathe in for four beats and out for five or six beats. Breathe in for six beats and out for eight beats – you’re working your way up to this; it’ll take several cycles. Do this until the end of the track. Then allow your breathing to return to normal.
      This has kept me from crying in the office (not stopping me crying at home of course), and sometimes crying is cathartic, in the right place, at the right time.

    5. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Go outside. Go for a walk if you feel up for it, or just go out and breathe fresh air. If you have a sunny day, put out a chair and sit there and soak up some rays.

      And no matter how shitty I’m feeling, I FORCE myself to dress nicely, get my hair in order, and put on makeup. As tempting as it is to shuffle around in sweats, taking the time to fix myself up does actually make me feel better (even if it’s just a little teeny bit).

    6. Troutwaxer*

      Is it possible that you’ve burnt yourself out making all this good stuff happen? Maybe you should take some time off, catch up on sleep, and do something fun.

      1. Laura*

        Cry! Cry hard! This sounds amazing. You know you want to and you need to. Watch sad films if you need to get a head start on the process ( I recommend “Random Harvest”). You sound so healthy to me – you know what you need, follow your instincts.

  180. Someone else*

    I am looking for a script. I have a colleague who likes to use me as her personal google. She has had tons of training, and has loads of resources to look things up but still seems to lack basic subject matter expertise for her job. Our company culture is very collaborative so it’s normal that people ask each other for help a lot, but with this person it’s gotten to the point where the gaps in her knowledge are both glaring and disruptive. (Picture a baker asking if she should put sugar in the cookie dough, while holding a recipe for said cookies.) It is also unclear if she knows how bad it looks that she doesn’t know these things. Sometimes it seems like she thinks it’s a normal part of her job to just ask every time. However, I am not her supervisor, and her supervisor is aware of the problem and supposedly working on it. In the meantime, I am attempting to reduce the disruption to my work. I am looking for a script for the professional, polite version of “you’re supposed to know this.” Part of the difficulty is that I don’t want to completely dissuade her from asking me questions in general, because there are some things it is appropriate for her to consult me about. She just doesn’t seem to have a good handle on the difference, so I’m hoping to give some direct feedback on the occasions when her questions aren’t appropriate.

    1. Morning Glory*

      Can you stop answering her questions like ‘yes add sugar’ and start answering them like ‘I think it’s in that recipe you’re holding, try looking there and let me know if you don’t see it.”

      1. Someone else*

        Well, sometimes the questions come in the form of “I looked at the recipe and it doesn’t say if i should add sugar” and my response is “yes it does, right here” with a link to where it does. Actually most of them do include some sort of defensive “I looked first!” So I don’t know that this approach would help.

    2. Elle Em (changing my name since there are two Elles on today)*

      I don’t know if this would work, but can you ask her to try to resolve the issue on her own and come to you if she gets stuck somewhere? I have a coworker who is over 70 years old. Two years ago she asked me to make an entire 20+ slide powerpoint presentation for her when it clearly wasn’t my job. I knew powerpoint was a skill she needed to learn, and if I said yes this one time, she’d be asking me forever. So I politely but firmly told her that I thought her powerpoint skills were good (they were basic) and that she could come to me after it was mostly completed and I would help her in the places she was stuck. I had to say it twice and she wasn’t happy, but later that afternoon two co-workers came up to me and applauded me for standing up to her. (Please note that I was sugary-polite with her and really went out of my way to say it nicely.) She ended up improving her powerpoint skills, didn’t need me, and hasn’t asked me to do one for her since!

      Maybe her to problem solve and then if she gets stuck or can’t decide between two solutions, offer to have her run both of her solutions by you?

    3. JulieBulie*

      “What does the recipe say?”

      Or, even if you’re sure that she’s holding the recipe in her hand, say “That’s in the recipe book! It has all of the recipes in it. I’ll send you the link.”

      1. Someone else*

        That’s basically what I’m doing now. That’s why, what I was hoping to do, is not just get her to get the answer by redirecting to the recipe/recipe book, but also get her to understand that even though she can look up everything, there are also some basic things she shouldn’t need to look up in the first place.

        1. Someone else*

          Another example might be more like “how do I turn the oven on” and I’m like…you do have a manual, but also how the heck are you a baker who can’t turn on an oven without instructions.

    4. LCL*

      Many times people with this issue don’t lack knowledge, they lack confidence. Some suggested responses below…

      What do you think the answer should be?

      If you have an idea, try it and see what happens.

      Why are you asking me this? I haven’t looked at this subject in 6 months, you are much more up to date on it than I am and I should be asking you. Let me know what the answer is after you find out.

      How would I know that? Why would I know that? (Only use this for those random questions it applies to, don’t be a jerk about it.)

      Well, don’t do what I did last time. I used red paint instead of orange and it was a disaster.

    5. Reba*

      This might seem rigid or extreme, but maybe you could ask her to limit how many questions she asks you. If she wastes them on frivolous questions, tough. Obviously work will probably present plenty of situations where you would need to break this “rule” for the sake of moving your projects along, but maybe it would help her to be asked to prioritize her questions. Estimate how many times per day she interrupts you and tell her she can have like 10-20% of that. Make sure she’s clear on the issues that she *should* ask about, and be blunt that she should not have to ask so often about the other issues and that she has resources other than you to use.

      I’d try “Lurlene, I know there are times when it makes sense for you to consult me on issues like X and Y, but the constant interruptions from minor questions is affecting my work too much. Can you write down your questions and then bring me one or two of the difficult ones about X and Y per day (or whatever)? Try some solutions first and then come to me if you are really stuck. Thanks for understanding!”

      I don’t know why people are like this. It’s funny to me because I’m the opposite–I have struggled in workplaces to ask questions. At times I’ve wasted time and even made a moderately serious mistake because I thought I should figure things out myself! I think I was afraid of looking less competent to my very impressive boss.

  181. Adjunct Gal*

    I just applied for a job via a Google Docs form, which included me making an intro video about what I like to do in my spare time, and answering a bunch of questions. It seemed more to the point than a cover letter where I could tell more about what they might be looking for.

    Cross fingers for me. Being laid off with pending unemployment wages really stinks.

  182. Story Nurse*

    Folks who use Patreon, what have you found to be good ways to get new patrons beyond asking your current patrons to spread the word on social media? I’m doing my annual patron drive right now and it’s going pretty well but more is always better.

    1. Havarti*

      Do you have your own social media? I don’t have a Patreon but I support a few people on it. Some occasionally make an old Patreon-only post available to the public along with “Hey, want to see more of this? Support me!” I also feel like you got to make enough free content to catch people’s attention. Like one has a free webcomic they update regularly. If the majority of what you do is behind the paywall, you may not get enough outsiders. Are you part of a group with similar interests so that if you promote them, they’ll promote you? You can gain from their audiences, especially if they’re more established. Indie authors and artists are all about networking. I’ve learned about new authors and artists usually from other authors and artists promoting them, not really from the followers saying anything on FB or twitter.

  183. stitchinthyme*

    So I only recently saw Alison’s US News & World Report article about why you should never accept a counteroffer…two years after I accepted one. I think my situation was a bit different from the typical one, though: I was actually happy at my current place and not looking; my husband had commented to me that a position had opened up in his company that looked like it was tailor-made for me, so I said, “What the heck?” and gave him my resume, never expecting anything to come of it. But I got called for an interview and got a job offer. I was still not intending to actually take it, until I found that the salary they were offering me was about $20K more than what I was making at the time. That gave me pause; though I was happy where I was (and none too eager to move from having my own office back to a cubicle), that much of an increase is hard to turn down out of hand.

    So after agonizing over the decision for a couple of days, I finally went to my current boss and laid the situation out for him: that I hadn’t been looking, but an opportunity had just fallen into my lap, that I had been fully prepared to turn it down, but that the extra money was very, very hard to ignore and that I was really having trouble deciding what to do. He was understanding, and told me he’d go talk to the company president, and the next day he came back and said they were willing to match the other offer, so I turned it down and almost immediately got a raise (the timing also helped: it was time for my annual review anyway, although this raise was WAY more than the typical).

    It’s been two years since then and there have been no negative repercussions. I got my last two raises as usual, and they were about on par with the percentage increases I’d been getting before. I’m still at my original company.

    1. Bibliovore*

      I think this is one of those- YMMV situations. In my ignorance (not having read AAM) I pursued my present job like I was invading Westeros. Not hearing anything about my application, I contacted the hiring manager directly. Seeing the job still posted after 4 months, I contacted the hiring manager and got an interview the next week. Showed up at the department retirement event. Contacted board members for recommendations. Invited non-university people to my job talk. Someone told me it was open to the public. It was not. I did get the job. I look back at all of this and think “yikes” Would I have gotten the job if I hadn’t been so tenacious? Maybe, but I was an unconventional candidate without all the listed job qualifications.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think Alison’s said you should never accept a counter-offer—more that it’s usually not a good idea. In your case, it worked out, but in the vast majority of cases, it doesn’t.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      A situation where you’re not actively looking to leave and an opportunity falls in your lap is totally different from one where you are actively job seeking for some reason. I think Alison’s advice is largely “don’t accept a counteroffer without considering the reasons you started looking to leave in the first place”.

    4. Miss Janet Snakehole*

      I am SO glad to read this comment—I was hoping to come across something like this because I am in almost exactly the same situation: pretty great current job, referred to an almost tailor-made opening by a friend, expecting offer call on Monday after talking with HR.

      I was genuinely curious about Potential Job (I live in a big city but not the main hub for the Teapot industry, and can’t relocate because of my SO, so moving to another company is a rare opportunity) but I do think that ultimately I want to stay at my current company…with a counter offer. I told Potential Job that my salary requirements were about $20k more than I currently make, so I was thinking I’d make a similar argument to you: wasn’t looking to leave, job offer in my lap, be hard to turn down this much more money.

      So that’ll be my next week! Any tips or scripts both for the convo with current boss (I’m worried I’ll come off as disloyal for even investigating elsewhere) and the manager at Potential Job (so I don’t seem like I was jerking them around or just using the offer to get more out of my current gig)?. (I may also ask for a title upgrade—from Teapot Polisher to Senior Teapot Polisher, which I think given the work I’ve done since we let another Polisher go last year is fair.)

      1. stitchinthyme*

        Well, like I said, I didn’t really go in with a script, and I didn’t actually *ask* for more money. I laid out the facts as they were: wasn’t looking, got an offer, still hadn’t intended to take it, but the money was so good that I really couldn’t decide what to do. I let *them* come back to me with the offer to match. (I also wasn’t looking for a promotion; my company is small, so there isn’t a lot of hierarchy here. And I have no aspirations to do anything other than what I do now; I’ve never wanted to move up to management.)

        Of course, presumably you know your management, and one would hope they know you. Mine knows I’m not the type to play those sorts of games, so he believed me when I said I hadn’t done this with any particular agenda in mind.

  184. Back from the Grave, just in time*

    Husband was supposed to get his last paycheck from the Halloween store today. It’s delayed. Husband tells me “oh, it’s only one day.” Last time he was there, he had quit but gave in for a final opening shift because he was literally the only employee with a key. The owner handed him a handful of cash and said “I think you worked about this many hours last week”. It was afaik a completely random amount, neither of us were sure if it was supposed to be the overtime that was missing from his last paycheck (yeah. unpaid ot) or an advance on the coming one.

    owner is going to get away with murder because his store is only open one month a year and ultimately the amount isn’t worth chasing. i have no clue what this guy does the other 11 months so i like to think he’s one of the Evil Spirits that’s only able to walk the earth during the Halloween season.

    (hubby went to job fair this week, we’re managing therapy and job-hunting stress. debating if another holiday job for xmas season is worth it, lol)

    1. LizB*

      Can I just say I love the idea that all the Evil Spirits that used to manifest as demons/ghosts/whatever in the Olden Days now have to manifest as terrible managers of sketchy Halloween stores to keep up with the times?

  185. Feeling Guilty and Confused*

    I’m hoping someone can help me out with a (potentially good) problem that I may have.

    For the past 4 months, I’ve been working with a recruiter at a big tech company and interviewed for a few different positions within the same team. The first couple got moved to a different city and I decided to withdraw my application, but I’m currently in the middle of the interviewing process for a position that will definitely be in my city. The team seems to really like me and the recruiter bypassed the first two interviews to send me straight to the final interview for the most current position, so I think I have a good shot at getting it.

    In the meantime, a new position was created within my department at the non-profit I currently work for and I told my supervisor I was interested in applying, since it’s a step up for me. My supervisor has already been making plans with other team members that involve me being in that position, so again I’m pretty sure I’ll get it. However, HR has been moving at a glacial pace and hasn’t even posted the position yet (2.5 months after my team was made aware it would be created), so I have no idea how long that process is going to take.

    Frankly, the internal position is my backup in case I don’t get the job with Big Tech. As passionate as I am about the non-profit I work for, the salary I make is not sustainable and I’m literally going into debt to work here. Getting the promotion would mean a small salary increase, but nothing compared to the Big Tech job. Even if I get the promotion before Big Tech finished the hiring process, I would still take the Big Tech job if offered. However, I don’t want to burn bridges, and I’m afraid that if I don’t go for the promotion while also pursuing the Big Tech job, I’ll end up with neither.

    Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this situation? Neither option is set in stone, but I feel guilty pursuing an internal position when I know I’ll take the Big Tech job no matter what, especially since my supervisor is fantastic and I like almost everything about my job except my salary.

    1. Alice*

      I hope everything works out perfectly — you get the big tech offer tomorrow, you negotiate a small increase from their offer, you resign, you introduce two “mission-driven” people in your network who are already rich and can afford to work for peanuts to your old (well, current) supervisor.
      But — “you get the big tech offer tomorrow” and “you resign” are the only pieces of that paragraph that actually happen, that is still a good ending.
      It sounds like there’s every possibility that Big Tech job offer will come through (or a decision will, at least), before current job HR gets very far in the hiring process. But for now, go for the promotion as well. I mean, don’t go knocking on HR’s door, “hey, let’s move forward,” why should you feel guilty for keeping your options open?
      Now, if you were asking, should you accept the promotion when it’s offered to you, if you haven’t heard from Big Tech yet? That’s thornier.
      Good luck!

      1. Feeling Guilty and Confused*

        That’s the thing – I can’t afford to not take the promotion if it’s offered even if I still haven’t heard from Big Tech yet. When I say I’m going into debt to work here, I mean hundreds of dollars a month, and the Big Tech job is literally twice my current salary. The promotion, on the other hand, may not even come with a pay raise because my current salary is within the pay grade for that position (which is, in my opinion, ridiculous because I’d be going from non-exempt to exempt and the bottom of the pay grade for the promotion is literally $15k below market rate. Yay nonprofits!).

        I’m so anxious about the potential that this might happen, because I really respect and admire my supervisor and I don’t want to leave her or my coworkers out to dry or burn a bridge by leaving immediately after accepting a promotion. At the same time, I need to pay my rent and pay down my debt ASAP otherwise I’m going to face some serious repercussions in the near future.

        1. Reba*

          They’ll understand — or at least they *should* understand — that you need to be able to live without going into debt (!). It is in no way wrong or hurting your org for you to seek opportunities.

          The discussion about non-profit compensation and attitudes on here the other day might be of interest https://www.askamanager.org/2017/10/is-it-okay-to-be-honest-about-just-being-in-it-for-the-money.html

          I hope you get the fancy job and have the opportunity to thank your supervisor warmly for the things you enjoyed about your current position!

        2. Rick Tq*

          Your job is starving you to death, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change even if you do move to the new position.

          Time to leave for a livable wage with no regrets, you can’t afford to for for this group long term.

  186. Genny*

    I have a hard time hearing. It’s not bad enough that I need hearing aids or anything, I just can’t hear well at certain volumes, pitches, or when multiple people are talking. It’s normally not a problem, but sometimes people will try to whisper things to me in meetings. Not only can I not hear what they’re whispering because of the low volume (especially if it’s a guy whispering because their pitch tends to be harder for me to hear), their whispering makes it hard for me to hear the speaker. How should I respond to the whisperer? I don’t want to be rude and talk over the speaker, but if I say nothing, the whisperer keeps trying to talk to me, which means I continue to miss what the speaker is saying.

    2. JulieBulie*

      I can never tell what a whisperer is saying when I’m listening to someone in a meeting… and I would rather hear the person who’s actually speaking anyway. So I just respond, “tell me later” and try to punctuate with my body language that I am listening to the speaker and not the whisperer.

      It doesn’t always work. But honestly whisperers really annoy me, whether I’m the person being whispered to or just a bystander (bysitter) who is being distracted while trying to listen to the speaker.

    3. NeverNicky*

      Even very mild hearing loss can be helped by a hearing aid. If it is impacting your day to day interactions like this, don’t rule one out.

    4. Database Geek*

      I’m fully deaf in one ear and hard of hearing in the other (I wear a hearing aid in that ear – but some things are still hard to hear) so I’ve gotten to a point where I’m pretty blunt about it if someone talks in the deaf ear. “That’s my deaf ear – I can’t hear you if you whisper in it” or “You have to speak up because I can’t hear you right now.”

      1. Mandy*

        My mother is deaf in one ear. Whenever we would try to whisper in her bad ear she would just look at us pointedly and tap the good ear.

        2. nonegiven*

          My husband got to where he’d hang up on his mother for calling him without putting in her hearing aids first.

    5. Snark*

      Dude, seriously, take it from a hearing impaired person who told himself he didn’t need hearing aids or anything until he was like 19 and had cheap crappy aids until he was 25: you totally need hearing aids. I LOVE mine. They’re amazing. The reduction in cognitive load and stress is so amazing. I can sit in a noisy bar and converse with people for three, four hours and it’s FINE now. I went through most of my life getting exhausted in social situations because it was such an effort to piece together what people were saying to me, and it’s awful. They’re not cheap, but they will change your life. Literally.

      1. stitchinthyme*

        Ditto the above. See an audiologist and discuss your options. The technology is amazing nowadays. Not perfect, but it helps a lot.

        As to the original post, everyone I work with knows I have hearing problems. I make it a point to mention it to avoid situations like the one you describe. (I do have hearing aids, but they’re small and generally covered by my hair, so unless I tell someone about them, they usually don’t notice.)

  187. Becky*

    I had my weekly one on one with my team lead yesterday and asked about what the PTO requests around the holiday looked like as my sister invited me to come to her house for Christmas (I haven’t seen my sister in 3 years–she and her family just moved back to the US from overseas). PTO on my team is generally first-come-first-served, if too many people have already requested particular time, you might get denied. Turns out nobody had actually requested any PTO yet for the end of the year (Christmas to New Years) so I gladly snapped up the 4 days after Christmas and the day after New Years, which was approved immediately. This morning I bought my plane ticket, so I’m feeling really good at the moment.

    There are a couple of different holidays so close at the end of the year, but there’s never been a whole lot of drama around the PTO calendar. One year too many people did request off so the manager offered anyone who volunteered to work the day after Christmas some extra incentive (don’t remember what it was)–my co-worker took the offer as long as she could work it from home and the manager approved it (this was before our office had a formal work from home policy).

    Of course, in my industry, the end of the year is pretty dead for both us and our clients. For other industries I know end of the year is “all hands on deck” time.

    How does taking vacations around holidays work at your job?

    1. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

      The office is closed between Christmas and New Year and all employees are required to keep 3 days leave to use.
      The rest of the year, it’s pretty much first come, first served. Which means (in my team of four) Boss gets first pick and I can’t overlap with her AT ALL, but I can overlap with one of my two co-workers by no more than three days. (My coworkers CAN overlap with boss, and with each other by up to a week)

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      We’re closed from pre-Christmas through to January and it doesn’t come out of your leave.

      I do not miss my days in retail…

    3. JD*

      My boss just decides that we barely work about a week before xmas and then pretty much do not work at all between xmas and new years. That is always a lovely blessing as I end up with about 2 weeks of not much at all. Plus people don’t really contact us during the holidays anyway.

  188. Kat Em*

    Me: anxious about everything all the time.

    Boss: I love how you’re so detail oriented!

    I guess that’s a win?

    1. Snark*

      I once went to see a spectacularly filthy-minded and alcoholic standup comic who was like, “My friends are all like, Doug, you have a serious drinking problem, and you really need to get your life under control….but FFS, don’t quit drinking tonight, you’re only funny when you’re drunk!”

      1. Chaordic One*

        This reminds me of a standup act with a guy who said he drank and smoke too much so he went to both “Alcoholics Anonymous” and a group to quit smoking called “Smoke Enders.” According to him, everybody at “A.A.” smoked like a chimney while everybody at “Smoke Enders” was drunk. He said “Smoke Enders” was a lot more fun.

  189. Temporarily Anonymous*

    Not really looking for advice but just wanting to vent a little (though commiseration from people who’ve been there endured that wouldn’t be rejected :) ).

    I’ve been in government off and on for almost a decade and I’m really starting to feel jaded and cynical. The offices I’ve worked in are so hortibly passive-agressive and nothing ever gets done about mean, verbally abusive, and/or lazy employees. There is no opportunity to advance in an area I’d be interested in but I will likely be moving in the next 2 years so it doesn’t make sense to start at a new job now. I’m biding my time while trying to avoid getting a worse attitude or internalising more dysfunctional thinking. Sigh.
    I should say: It isn’t all bad -some of what I do in my job is meaningful and makes me feel like I’m making a positive difference- but the passive-agressiveness, OMG! And it’s systematic right up the authority chain so it will not change.

    1. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

      There is no opportunity to advance in an area I’d be interested in
      This! 100% This!
      Although, in my case, there are some opportunities, and boss roadblocks as soon as I show any inclination.
      So, yeah, commiserations from me! At least I can wish you a good weekend!

  190. Fresh Faced*

    Wondering if I could get some good vibes?

    I’m wrapping up the first week at my new job. It’s a part time (20hrs but a bunch of overtime) xmas temp job at a canteen/cafe type place. Everything’s “ok” nothing great, but it’s also not as bad as my anxiety tries to make it. I had a really terrible time in retail for my first job so every other customer service job I’ve had has been me trying to make up for it. Feeling super tired at the moment, which I hope gets better as I get used to the work and being on my feet all day. I feel behind on projects and general job search this week, hopefully with time I’ll adjust and all.

    I’ve been unemployed for almost a year up to this point, and I know this isn’t the dream job I’ve been searching for, it isn’t what I went to school for, I treat it 100% as a pay check (as do I lot of my colleagues which makes me relax). But I guess those around me (mostly family, mainly my parents) look at my new job like “that’s it!?” and it’s really been bumming me out in the down time between my shifts. when I have to remind them that yeah this is the only job offer I’ve got, and they tell me “well you’ve just got to work twice as hard and send out 5 applications a day”.

    I’m trying to be happy about having a job, and having it somewhat on my terms but I’m just struggling to do so.

    1. Buu*

      Blurch! Retail is one of the hardest most demanding jobs out there! Congrats to you. I was unemployed for a year after college and a crappy customer service job after that year was a lifeline. Yeah sure I had money to help with job hunt stuff like cash for a nicer interview outfit and money to go to networking events but I could also buy myself the odd treat.
      It’s easier to find work when you’re already employed and shows you’re willing to work, you’ll also be gaining loads of good case studies on dealing with stressful situations for whenever you need them.
      A lot of parents are still looking on things as being like when they were young when the economy was booming and not like it is now.

      An xmas job is a pretty sensible thing to get, it’s experience and money and will carry you toward march/april when the new financial year opens up. In my experience a ton more jobs appear in the new year. Good luck and treat yourself – you earned it.

  191. MJ (Aotearoa/New Zealand)*

    Two questions today, and I’m late to the thread — eek!

    1. I had a call last week with the owner of a consultancy firm. I didn’t apply for a job — but a mutual connection on LinkedIn likes my post about job hunting and she saw it. Having spoken to her, I LOVE the sound of the role/company; this could really be my dream job and an amazing next step. I’m speaking with one of the other consultants on Monday — what are some things I should be asking?

    2. I volunteer for Good Bitches Baking, which bakes and delivers treats to people in need, shelters, hospice, etc. I’m not entirely sure how to list the organisation name on my resume. Should I censor it, or no? We’re reasonably liberally about minor swear words in NZ, and me and my coloured hair/tattoos/septum ring are unlikely to work anywhere too pearl-clutchy, but I’m not sure what the best thing to do is.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      My inclination is to not censor it. It’s the legal name of the organization, right?

        1. Reba*

          If you are applying through online portals and the like, I wonder if those are likely to catch the word and screen you out. Just a thought. That sounds like a fabulous organization!

          1. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

            If you think that might be the case, can you take out the spaces, but leave the capitalisation? I’m not sure how online portals work these days, but one of my first jobs was at a tech firm that kept screening out applicants from Scunthorpe for this reason, until they did something to do with the spacing around the offensive word. ( There are other place names and company names affected, but I can’t remember them all now).
            Good luck!

  192. Ann O.*

    Any contractors who keep West Coast hours :)? I am in the process of setting up a contract for a pilot project so that I can leave my current job. I am so used to tech companies using “contractor” to refer to dubiously legally having people work through a staffing company that I didn’t realize I would be responsible for myself here.

    My actual question is: have you had to deal with acquiring insurance? The contract I was sent mandates that I carry insurance. Since I’m currently a W-2 employee, I don’t carry this. It’s the one wrinkle in what was otherwise exactly what I was expecting.

    1. Jillociraptor*

      What kind of insurance? Often if you already have homeowner’s, renter’s, or car insurance your company can tack on a little liability insurance at a fairly minimal cost, very quickly.

      However, the one time a contract stipulated this, I just asked a few questions and the requirement went away, so it might be worth asking why it’s required and whether that’s negotiable given your current situation.

    2. CAA*

      Not sure why you think it’s legally dubious for a tech company to contract with a staffing company for personnel. It’s not. It’s no more illegal than contracting with a cleaning service to have their staff come in and vacuum every night.

      But anyway, it sounds like this company you’re contracting for now is expecting you to run your contracting/consulting practice as a sole proprietorship that carries the appropriate business insurance. You may need errors & omissions coverage as well as liability. Does the contract specify the minimum acceptable amount? You can get this coverage from many agencies. If you are happy with your home and auto coverage, call your regular agent and ask if they also offer insurance for small businesses or if they could recommend someone who does.

      1. Troutwaxer*

        I saw this start to happen around 2004 or so in banking. An appraiser I know was told that he should start his own company and the banks would hire him. Obviously there were trying to keep some kind of liability at bay.

        If you’re being told “start your own company, then come work for us” you need to be very careful about what you’re being asked to do.

        1. Ann O.*

          A contract is completely appropriate in this case, but I don’t want to provide too many details as I am very cautious about my anonymity. However, I was surprised by the insurance situation simply because the hiring manager knows that I am not currently working as a contractor (and thus logically wouldn’t be carrying this) and to me, that seemed like a big thing to find out by reading through a contract. Also, there is some urgency to get everything signed and official.

          But it sounds like it may not be that hard to resolve the insurance issue.

      2. Ann O.*

        The issue of the tech company contractors is a bit of a tangent, but what I’m referencing is substantively different from contracting with a cleaning service. IIRC, Microsoft lost a court case about it.

        The contract does specify minimum amounts and the specific kind of insurance. That’s good that I can reach through my home or auto insurer. I thought I would need a specialty company like I do for performance insurance. That sounds more doable.

        1. nonegiven*

          You may want to get bids. We had Allstate for home and vehicles and Farmers for business liability and bonding.

          1. nonegiven*

            Also landlord insurance didn’t come with a discount because we had home and vehicle insurance.

  193. Anonymous Like Whoa*

    Going anonymous for this and I’m bummed I am so late in the day, but I could use help.

    I had my annual review on Monday by my new boss. She’s only been here 3.5 months and apparently never bothered to educate herself on what reviews are supposed to be like. The first words out of her mouth were to ask if I even wanted to work here, then she showed me a 100% failing review in every possible category. I’ve been at this company for 10 years and have NEVER had a single failing category. She blamed me for things that happened that were not under my scope, made very aggressive and downright cruel statements, and ended by saying she’d rather have no one in my position than have me stay.

    I struggled to respond in the moment because 1 – I was SHOCKED; and 2) I am not good at conflict. I took the review forms, refused to sign, and walked directly to my union rep, who happens to be next door. My union rep about had a heart attack and called HR immediately. I followed the guidelines of our union contract and wrote out a response to each allegation, with email backups where available. But it was next to impossible to work in that office this week. I’m so overwhelmed with stress and anxiety that I am not able to sleep and have to force small amounts of food down. It’s so uncomfortable being in the office because for all my review is supposed to be confidential, it’s clear my boss took coaching from a co-worker I do not get along with (which was an issue I hoped to address during a neutral review but now can’t because it looks like sour grapes). My boss is floating around the office being extra smiley and chirpy while I can barely breathe.

    My union rep and I are meeting with HR and my boss next week to discuss the situation and be presented with a legal review, but frankly I don’t want to ever see my boss again. My husband is telling me to keep my head down and not worry, because getting fired isn’t the end of the world. We can handle it financially if I collect unemployment, but if I quit and can’t get unemployment then we would have some real struggles. The same day this happened, another department posted a job opening that is nearly identical to what I do (admin assistant) so I plan to apply for the transfer. My union rep says this conflict cannot have bearing on whether I get selected for that vacancy, but the posting specifically says no negative annual reviews.

    I just don’t know how to handle going in to the office every day after my boss’s cruel behavior.

    1. Colleen*

      I am so sorry this happened to you

      First, be kind to yourself. It is not your fault you did not respond in the moment. That type of vitriol is hard to predict or to respond to. You did nothing wrong.

      Second, don’t let your boss’ subsequent chipperness get to you. She is still the one in the wrong here.

      Third, find out if your annual review can be used against you while it is under dispute. That might be what your union rep is referring to — until it is signed and finalized, it cannot be filed or used against you. I think the more you know about the process, the better you will feel about this process.

      If you have been there 10 years, the people in the other department should know you (if not personally, by reputation) and therefore know that this is an anomaly and unfounded. Please let us know how things work out for you. In the meantime, I am thinking of you and sending good thoughts your way.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      I am so sorry this happened. I think you were right not to respond in the moment and that you handled it exactly right.

      Self-care is really important right now.

    3. Chaordic One*

      I just want to say what Colleen and Ramona have said. I don’t know if it will ultimately help or not, but I think you are very lucky to have a union rep go to bat with you (not for you). Even in a worst-case scenario having that extra little bit of support is helpful. It is also good that HR is going to have a record of this.

  194. Jessen*

    Is it weird that I’m kind of annoyed over this? My boss sent me an email about something that I’d done wrong – done a verification after the service was supposed to be complete which caused the service to be carried out incorrectly. I looked into it and sent an email back that (1) I had actually done it 23h before, not 1h after as he had said, and (2) the verification documents I had used were correct, but the person carrying out the service didn’t follow what was on their documents. So I didn’t do anything wrong.

    I sent the email back and…nothing. Nothing at all. I don’t even know if he read it or not. I mean, it’s not a big deal I suppose, but a quick “oh, sorry” would have been appreciated.

    1. Margaret*

      You did the right thing by confirming that you had indeed completed the work. As to no reply – that’s unfortunate but some people are like that. Don’t take it to heart and believe in yourself. Good luck.

      1. Jessen*

        I think it’s being exacerbated by feeling like I don’t have the boss’s confidence. I work on a shift where management isn’t present. It often feels like all my mistakes are noted, but anything where I do well or prevent a problem is essentially unnoticed (because all that happens is that a problem that would have happened doesn’t happen). A lot of my shift seems to have that feeling right now.

  195. Me--Blargh!*

    It was very cold here today. Yay for wearing scarves again.

    Still no response on any applications. The crickets are deafening.

    Ebook has made about $35. :P I got a $12 refund from a software plug-in that didn’t work so I’m just going to throw that in the pot when I donate. I have NO reach at all. Plus, almost no one I know IRL and not on the internet bought one. For some stupid reason, that makes me feel bad.
    Thanks to everyone from here who bought one. :)

    2. nonegiven*

      I’m sorry, it just wasn’t my genre. Nearing retirement, I’m tight enough I’ve quit spending on anything else. Give me space ships or time travel or GTFO.

  196. Anonymous Like Whoa*

    Second try posting… forgive if the original pops up again.

    I am an admin asst and have worked for a state university for just over 10 years. On Monday, I met with my boss (only been here 3-4 months and is not a university employee but assigned from a national agency to run our special program) for my annual review. She started by asking if I even wanted to work here. My review was 100% negative, failing in everything. I asked if she was trying to fire me and she said she was willing to work with me if I really did want to be here. Her comments and justifications were beyond personal and cruel. She ended the review with the statement that she would rather have my position vacant than have me there. Frankly, that was a rather neutral statement compared to others. She had clearly taken comments from a co-worker I do not get along with, so I cannot trust that this situation is even confidential. Most of my responses during the meeting were along the lines of, “If you had a problem with this, why didn’t you say something? We could have made adjustments, changes, whatever is needed to fix it before you throw it on my permanent employee record!”

    I am not good with conflict. At all. I could hardly speak and had a hard time sorting through my thoughts to discuss the issues with her. We went through her sections and comments and I tried to address the most egregious. She adjusted some comments and printed a second version. I left the meeting and brought both documents straight my union rep, who instantly called HR. HR made contact with my boss to let her know that the review was not legal, she had not followed guidelines and procedures, and she was not to discuss it with me or anyone but HR while we worked the process. However, I still had to spend the rest of the week in the office while my boss pranced like she was going to get me fired.

    This entire situation has me sick. I’ve not slept for more 30 minutes at a time since Monday, waking frequently throughout the night with anxiety attacks. I’m not able to eat without feeling sick. I can’t even describe the anxiety. It’s been hell going in to work while she acts like she didn’t say those awful things to me. My union rep has been very good about helping me stay calm and stay focused on my response. She’s very supportive, but I can’t help but fear I’ll be fired because of the crap my boss has spewed. And even if I am not fired, I can’t bear to be around her. I can’t trust her. I legitimately fear what she will blame me for and what she will try to do if something goes wrong.

    Coincidentally another department on campus posted a vacancy for an admin asst the day after this happened. I talked to my union rep and she said applying was fine, it wouldn’t be affected by this conflict. But the posting specifically stated no negative annual reviews, so I feel like even though my contract requires I get an interview, they will disqualify me because of what my boss is trying to put in a review. Working at a state university for as long as I have has qualified me for retirement benefits that I could lose if I am fired, and honestly I suspect my boss will make things difficult until I quit anyway.

    I just don’t know what to do. The anxiety is killing me; I can’t bear to quit/be fired and I can’t bear to go in to the office every day. What on earth do I do?

    1. Anonymous Like Whoa*

      I will admit that I have been having some medical issues in the last two months that have wrecked havoc on my concentration. But the only problems were minor ones. A lot of her complaints were “You interrupt too much” followed by “You didn’t speak up about…”. Well, which is it? I am sticking my nose where it doesn’t belong or am I not sticking my nose out far enough?

      She has a totally different “leadership” style from her predecessor. I think this is the primary problem – I presented her with my processes over the summer when she arrived and she told me to continue as is unless she asks me to make changes. Instead of asking me to change things, she simply put on my review that I don’t do things the way she wants. There’s been ZERO conversation about making changes, but she wants to fire me for not making changes. She actually stated that she thought I would get the hint from emails she CCd me on to other people.

      1. Kiwi*

        Ouch!! That’s an awful situation. Definitely do apply for the other position. You don’t yet have any negative performance reviews, so it sounds like a good opportunity to get out while it might be easy.

        Can you take a few days of leave? That might give you a chance to breathe again.

      2. Reba*

        For what it’s worth, it sounds to me like the responses you were able to get out in the moment were good! Good luck resolving this and I hope you have the chance to move on.

      3. Colette*

        She sounds like a terrible manager, and I’d definitely start looking internally.

        Having said that, it’s possible that you do interrupt and that you don’t bring up things she considers important. Both can be true. While you look for another job, think about what you can change now that she’s brought things up.

        I’m sorry you’re going through this.

    2. nep*

      Sorry you’re having to deal with this anxiety. Your health could surely take a beating from all this stress and a lack of sleep, so I hope you’ll be able to get some resolution soon.
      Did this bad feedback come out of nowhere? Were any of the things she pointed to issues for you in the past? You’ve been there a long time, and from what you wrote it sounds as if much or all of this seems to be coming out of nowhere. I mean, if there were issues this serious with your performance, solid managers would have addressed them a long time ago. I know you said she’s been there just a short time — just making the point that you’d have heard about these in the past if they were this bad, no?
      Wishing you all the best.

  197. Kate H*

    When you’re young to the workforce, how do you know when you’ve got it good? I recently accepted my first full-time position (thanks to AAM!). This is coming off a string of university positions and a long stint in a part-time job with a boss that paid monthly and never on time. I really like my workplace and the work isn’t half bad either. It pays much better than anything I’ve had before and offers benefits. I get ridiculously excited by normal things—like someone bringing a box of doughnuts to the breakroom. I’m committed to staying for a couple of years of course, barring unseen circumstances, but I can’t help but wonder if maybe my standards are going to be too low as I gain experience. I hope that makes sense, I’m not really sure how to put these feelings into words.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I think it can be helpful to categorise things a bit in your head. For example there are facts about your job, like enjoyable work, salary and benefits.

      Then there are more incidental things that make you excited (like donuts, or the fact you work somewhere people bring those in) but will become less exciting or unusual as time goes on – one way to pick these out is to imagine whether you’d ask about them before accepting a job. You’d probably ask about benefits, and you might ask about the general culture, but you wouldn’t ask specifically about donuts.

      Your standards will probably change over time, but it’s good to be aware of market salary levels for what you do. Happiness at work looks different to everyone, but you could also think about what benefits you over time as opposed to just in the moment.

  198. nep*

    Job searching and I’m not really doing myself any favors.
    I get all excited applying for jobs with an organisation I care about and that match my skills quite well. As I’m going through the application process, particularly if it includes a long, tedious online portion, I really fizzle out, heeding the voice in my head that says I’ve got no chance at this anyway and really feeling crappy about the entire thing. I’m sure on occasions this sort of ‘what the F is the point’ attitude has somehow come across in what I present. Mind you I like writing what I think are good cover letters and I am meticulous about checking my resume. But there’s something that takes over while I’m in the process of applying — I just have this sense of what’s the point, I won’t get this anyway. And that probably affects how diligent I am on some points or something.
    Just a rant. Job searching sucks. (I’m sure I need to improve my resume; I’ve not even gotten to the point of a phone screen.)

    1. nep*

      Oh — and the other day I noticed a typo in an article I’d submitted a couple months earlier as part of an application (as sample of something I’d copy edited). Just so ready to give up.

      1. nep*

        Having a conversation with myself, which is what often happens here.
        I’m not as doom and gloom as I’m making all this sound. Of course I know I’ve got to snap the hell out of the negativity, count my blessings, step it up, and keep working hard. Which I’ll do. Because I need a job and must stay on course. Thanks for the forum, AAM — sometimes I end up just ‘thinking on paper’ here, but it somehow helps.

    2. Reba*

      I wonder what little things you could do to shake up the application process — it sounds like this is a pretty well worn negative mental groove for you. Treats for completing forms? Doing things in a different order? Taking breaks? Help from a friend?

  199. Enid*

    Coworker is annoyed at me but doesn’t know I know

    I work for a very large organization as an administrator. My co-worker – let’s call her Mavis, is the same grade as me but has been there longer (like 10 years more)! Mavis has a lot of experience and appears to ‘get the job done’ but spends a LOT of time talking and basically badmouthing everyone (me included when I’m not there).

    I haven’t got involved in any of her shenanigans but got my head down and have had excellent feedback on my work.

    My problem is that my workload is huge and much bigger than Mavis’s. My boss has decided that Mavis take up some of my workload.

    Mavis has been asked by our boss to take over a project for me. Mavis is now on 2 weeks leave and the deadline for the project is 3 weeks. I’ve started preparing some of the tasks because I know that 1 week is not enough time to complete. However I’ve heard from a trusted co-worker (in confidence) that Mavis is slagging me off for starting the process.

    The reason I did this is:

    a. Mavis wasn’t happy when our boss asked her to take over this task. She told me she might not be able to complete the project in time. She has also, in the past, refused to help me on this project (it’s a quarterly project) stating that it wasn’t under her remit.

    b. I don’t want to end up with a deadline that ends up coming down to me because she won’t complete (please believe me when I say that she may even phone in sick!)

    I totally understand where my boss is coming from and have explained to her the above. My boss was understanding and understood that due to annual leave, it was fair enough I started the project., however Mavis has to take this project on from now on.

    I don’t mind completing the project this time I am, however, concerned that Mavis was bad mouthing me about this. This is due to the fact that I know that she’s talked about me in the past. I’ve left this alone because I think there could be a bit of jealousy there. I am very pro-active whereas I truly believe she’s stuck in her role and doesn’t want any more responsibility.

    I want to gently confront her. I was thinking of saying something ‘I’m sorry if you were upset I started this, but I though I was being helpful, considering the deadline to get things started’.

    I was hoping that this would confuse her e.g. – how did I know that she’d been talking about this (she wouldn’t know it came from a trusted friend because I have discussed this with my boss).

    I really want us to work together well, but she really isn’t a team player – but I want her to know that I’m not a pushover.

    I really would appreciate any suggestions.

    Thanks.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I don’t think I’d handle it that way. Trying to confuse her by hinting isn’t an ideal thing to do. You’d be acting on hearsay and trying to manipulate her into a particular reaction. Don’t. Just do the work and if – and only if – she speaks directly to you, just matter of factly say you started it due to the deadline. And why would you set out to confuse her?

      Also, from her perspective she was told to take it over and you did it anyway. Okay, so nobody likes being bad mouthed, but you can’t control what she says or how she feels. Next time someone says she’s slagging you off, I would cut them off and say they should ask her to take any concerns up with your boss. Stop listening to hearsay. Seriously. It’s not going to help. Her issues are hers, not yours!

  200. Update [on Michelle]?*

    Has there been an update to the letter about Michelle, the ever changing, chameleon employee when it came to her appearance? It’s my all time favorite AAM letter and I’m almost dying of curiosity wondering what happened since the letter writer wrote in [of course I enjoy AAM every day but that letter is by far my favorite one].

  201. Maddy*

    I’m currently job hunting and a recruiter called me literally 6 times in 10 minutes while I was talking on the phone with someone else. When I got off the phone I started listening to the 6 voicemail messages (yes, all the same person) and the same number called again while I was listening to the voicemails!

    I was debating what to do, because at this point I did not want to talk to them via phone, and checked email, lo and behold the same recruiter had sent me 3 emails about this job position, in addition to sending me a friend request on LinkedIn and Facebook.

    Fed up, I emailed them back with a simple ‘No, thank you, I’m not interested in this job.’ Within minutes I got an email back demanding to know the reasons why I wasn’t interested. I responded and the calls and emails finally stopped.

    The next day this same recruiter tried to call and email me AGAIN about a different position. I’m starting to get mad. What should I do? Contact their agency?

    1. nep*

      I would. That is just too much. (Is this fairly typical, does anyone know?)
      (Emailing you back asking you why you’re not interested. !!!)

    3. tink*

      Please contact their agency, because that’s beyond ridiculous. I could maybe see 2-3 calls in a day if you were working with someone specifically to be recruited and they found a position that might be great for your qualifications and was moving fast (1st thing in the morning, around lunchtime, shortly before close of day), but 6 times in 10 minutes and then being demanding when you’re not interested? Definitely call them. That’s rude, annoying, and is going to give that agency a bad name.

  202. char*

    File under “good problems to have”, but I just got my third raise in a year and I’m frankly a little alarmed by it? I was hired on a last November into an entry-level position, but it turns out that I’m a natural at this line of work and now I’m the point person on multiple different projects. My manager openly tells me that I’m one of her best people and I got promoted mid-year.

    The thing is, while of course money is nice, I already made more than enough to cover all my expenses and didn’t really need more. Meanwhile I’m a little freaked out by the increased responsibility, and honestly the part of my job that I enjoy the most is the “lower level” stuff. In the past couple months the stress has been starting to get to me a little, and I guess I feel like the more they pay me, the harder it would be for me to say, “hey, maybe I can’t quite handle this workload after all, can we consider dialing it back a little?”

    I guess it’s weird that my brain’s immediate reaction to being told I got a raise was, “OH NO, MORE PRESSURE,” rather than “yay, money!” but there it is.

    1. Reba*

      Congratulations and yay for your savings :)

      Stick with it a bit longer. It might normalize, it might stay at the overwhelming level. The more experience you have there, the more you’ll be able to judge if the level of challenge is reasonable and probably have a sense of what kinds of things could help alleviate it if you need (some of an assistant’s time, a better schedule, whatever). At your next review or whatever point makes sense with your boss, you can say that you’ve been excited to take on new tasks and learn about more aspects of the business, but that you might want to rethink the pacing together, since there’s been a lot of change and you want to gain some more depth in different areas of your work. Good luck!

  203. Beth Anne*

    This is just something I’ve been thinking about. I know no one probably will see this. But I am amazed by a number of people that are BAD at their job and people complain (including bosses) and they never get fired! Does this puzzle anyone else?

    1. Ann O.*

      Yes! I regularly wonder about this. Especially the ones who are disruptive. Why don’t they get fired?

  204. Anon for venting*

    Coworker acting all like my friend, asking about job I’m applying for and future plans. Make conversation. Feels a little like prying, but go along with it. Coworker applies to same job & has her friends apply to backup jobs. Really? I’m just so disgusted, what a swarmy way to go about it.

  205. Cute Li'l UFO*

    I’ve been working in a temp position from the beginning of September. It was stated to be around 1-2 months and it would be just about approaching that 2 month mark. I’ve kept an eye open this whole time as the commute is not ideal, in the opposite direction of friends/after work things/doctors/pharmacy, and some of the internal BS is getting to me. I’m a production artist and in what was week 3 of work (after starting midweek for labor day and being out of town for two days) I made an error in routing some files. Training was kind of handle-projects-as-they-come because things were so busy and after it was all said and done, it was fixed. No client lost, I was much clearer on structure, files delivered.

    It’s now being repeated back to me ad nauseam as a behavior I have to fix repeatedly. My coworkers are tired of this getting brought up to them as well. As one said, “one instance does not a pattern make.”

    It’s rapidly becoming an even less enjoyable environment. There’s many other things but they all compile. I have an interview Tuesday for a closer junior designer position. PT, but at a very respectable rate. The commute is a little more pricey ($30 gas/week for my CR-Z now versus taking the train in at $3 to park, $8.60 roundtrip) but it’s far more enjoyable than the slow crawl/autobahn I have now.

    I’m also kind of (actually really miffed) that this is the SECOND place I’ve worked that didn’t disclose that they had dogs. I’m pretty allergic and thankfully pretty responsive to Fexofenadine, but I think that’s starting to wear thin. It’s tough to focus even with headphones during the day. Should I be assuming at this point?

    Wish me luck!

    1. Cute Li'l UFO*

      Forgot to mention, one of my coworkers said “I think they’re making you out to be the fall guy.”

      I am very happy that I was not present when he heard from the accounts team that there were more messed up files that happened to have a last opened date of at least a MONTH before I started working there.

      So done. So very very done. I’m thankful for the opportunity and the paycheck as it was a good stopgap. But I’m ready to move on.

      sidenote: bought AAM’s eBook and found it very helpful! There’s so much bad advice out there and I’ve been a reader of AAM since 2012. She’s really got the secret sauce down!

  206. October*

    Some weird things went down at work over the weekend and even though I wasn’t there, I still feel really odd coming in today. Is that normal? The incident did not have anything to do with me and will not affect my work, but I still feel very uneasy. I need to shake it off because we have a big week coming up. Any thoughts/ideas?

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