open thread – December 1-2, 2017

by Alison Green on December 1, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. Lady Dedlock*

    Thank goodness for open thread! I got called in for an interview and could use some advice on how to proceed.

    About a week ago, I had a call with a recruiter that went well, but we seemed to have a mismatch on salary. He asked me what my target range was, I told him, and he said what’s budgeted for the position is 10-15K less than the bottom of my range. Since the salary he named was what I’m making in my current job, and I’d like an increase, I told him to keep me in mind for any future positions that seem like a match. He said he could also check to see if there’s any flexibility on the range for the position I applied for, and I said sure, okay.

    Fast-forward to yesterday, and I get an email saying they’d love to meet with me in person for the position I applied for. Nothing was mentioned about salary.

    Should I assume that since they’re calling me in, that they concluded they could increase the salary for the position? Should I ask the recruiter about it before I agree to come in, or would that make me seem too mercenary? I’m trying to keep my job search quiet, so I don’t want to take time off work to interview for a job that’s below my required range.

    1. Murphy*

      I would check in with the recruiter, if you can. It’s not worth it to waste anyone’s time if you know you wouldn’t accept what they’re offering.

    2. Barbara in Swampeast*

      Ask. You are not mercenary if you will not accept a lower salary. You will be saving them time and effort if you won’t go lower.

    3. BRR*

      I would not assume they could increase the salary. I would either reach out to the recruiter or if it was the hiring manager possibly research out and say that when you were speaking with the recruiter your salary ranges didn’t match up and you wanted to check before committing to an interview.

      1. CAT*

        I agree with the advice to ask the recruiter! You were clear about your expectations and needs for the role and, since they didn’t follow up with you (which could be an oversight or a sign they didn’t really listen to your original needs), there’s nothing wrong with asking.

    4. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Definitely find out beforehand. Admittedly I have had some horrible experiences with headhunters which makes me highly untrusting towards them. Having said that, get all the relevant info before committing to the interview.

    5. Mona Lisa*

      I’d send an e-mail back to the recruiter reminding her of your earlier discussion and asking if their decision to move forward means that a compromise salary has been reached. You can frame it as not wanting to waste their time if you can’t accept the salary they offered earlier so it seems less like you’re only looking out for your own interests. (Not that your interests aren’t important, but if you want to sound less mercenary, you’ll at least be phrasing it as a benefit to them instead of yourself.)

    6. Artemesia*

      I’d touch base with the recruiter. Most places can go higher if they want to hire someone — not everywhere but most places. But I would not interview if the salary range is firm.

      1. No Parking or Waiting*

        Please do! I love updates! And I’m really curious if recruiter did speak to them about salary and they assumed you knew, or if recruiter dropped the ball.

    8. EMM*

      This is eerie, because I came here to ask an almost identical question, down to the exact salary mismatch. I have a slightly different follow up question–I agreed to the interview partly because of the suggestion of flexibility with salary, and partly because I could really use the interview experience. Obviously there is the possibility that they won’t want to proceed with me, but if it goes well and it turns out that the salary is set, how do I gracefully withdraw myself from consideration? Do I need to explain that it is because of salary?

      1. S-Mart*

        You don’t have to give them any reason. A vague ‘I’ve decided this position isn’t in my interests at this time, but thank you for the consideration’ is perfectly sufficient.

        Personally I’d explain that it was the salary (if that was truly the only significant reason), but it’s in no way obligatory.

    9. Red lines with wine*

      I would ask! Just be nice about it and, if he can’t tell you, decline the interview. That’s what I would do. :)

    10. PB*

      I wouldn’t assume that. The recruiter could have easily forgotten your conversation, might not have passed on the information, or they might think they can talk you into taking the job, regardless. I would ask the recruiter. Asking about salary is not mercenary; it’s essential information. If they can’t budge on salary, they’d be wasting your time and their own.

    11. Lily in NYC*

      You don’t have to follow the same “etiquette” rules re asking about salaries when dealing with a recruiter. I would say something like: just to clarify, were you able to find out if there’s any flexibility regarding the salary?

    12. Lady Dedlock*

      Update: I spoke with the recruiter, and he said he presented me with the salary I requested, and they still wanted to bring me in. Keep your fingers crossed for me, AAM friends!

      1. Fact & Fiction*

        Hooray! Best of luck! I recently moved to a new, awesome job (sans recruiter) and they didn’t blink at my range, ultimately offering me a little bit above the top number I gave them. That’s a great sign they still want to bring you in, even knowing your range. Fingers crossed for you!

      2. Fortitude Jones*

        Fingers crossed it all works out! When I encountered a low base salary with the job I’m starting Monday, I told the recruiter it was $3k less than what I currently make. I asked for $4k over what I currently make, and the HR contact called me the day after the phone screen saying the hiring manager went up $5k thereby giving me $2k more than I made in my now ex job. I liked that she got me a definite number right off the bat – I would not have gone to the in-person interview without a firm number. I’d reach out to the recruiter before scheduling and ask to clarify what their new range is just so you can have peace of mind that they won’t get you there and then try to talk you down to their original range.

    13. Lady Dedlock*

      Update #2: The hiring manager got in touch and told me the salary is firm, as originally stated. I’m not sure if I should withdraw (because obviously I’d like to make more money) or meet with them (because I wouldn’t be making less money, or not much less, and maybe I’d like the job better).

      1. Fact & Fiction*

        Meh. They should have stated that up front since the recruiter told them your requirement. Do you have all the benefit info to compare whether it might be advantageous in other regards?

        1. Lady Dedlock*

          As far as benefits go, there are some pros and cons:

          – Health insurance would likely cost at least somewhat more. I have better out-of-network coverage at my current employer, which is important because I’m seeing a therapist, and very few therapists take insurance.
          – It’s in a better part of the city, and my commute would be 10-15 minutes shorter.
          – I’d receive 7 more vacation days than I’m getting now.
          – Tuition reimbursement policies are generous.

          1. Mrs. D*

            It sounds like the health insurance could be a big factor. You may want to do some quick calculations to figure out how much more you would have to pay out of pocket.

            A shorter commute is always nice and helps to reduce the overall stress from commuting (I know this from personal experience).

            More vacation is also nice. Is this compensated by reducing your sick time?

            Tuition reimbursement is a nice perk! But…is this something you would likely use? You don’t mention what your academic plans are (if you have any). Unless you’re in a degree program or plan to enroll in one, this may be something that you wouldn’t use, and this benefit wouldn’t really increase the value of you taking the position.

          2. Fortitude Jones*

            If you’d be making the same amount of money, but your health insurance would cost more, you’d actually end up making less in the long run. The extra vacation days and tuition reimbursement are nice if you can/will actually use them; however, if you need to stay at your same income level to meet the basic standard of living you’ve become accustomed to, I’d pass on this job.

      2. Em*

        Why would you take this job? Is your current environment toxic? Were you looking to make a move before? Does the new org offer advancement old org doesn’t?

        Is your current salary over inflated for market? What is market for the salary they are offering (vs your current salary)? Will you walk in on day 1 feeling underpaid for the role?

        I haven’t really seen anything explaining why you are so interested in a move. You could certainly interview for practice/to learn more about this org., but don’t start inventing reasons a paycut is OK if you didn’t have them before.

        1. Lady Dedlock*

          Part of it is that I’ve been working for the same organization for quite a while (coming up on 8 years), and there’s nowhere to move up. My boss is very passive in terms of offering opportunities for growth and professional development; I get next to no feedback. The organization is also currently going through a strategic planning phase, so there’s a sense of uncertainty about the future. Morale has been low and turnover relatively high lately.

          Part of it is that I work in higher ed, and went into higher ed specifically with the notion of getting a discounted master’s degree. I live in a competitive city where a master’s, apart from imparting knowledge and skills, seems to hold significant signaling value for employers. What I didn’t realize when I took my current job is that the only programs available to me would be at the university’s teacher’s college; I don’t want to go into education or a related field. The new job would be at another higher ed institution with a much broader range of programs available to professional staff. I looked up the hiring manager and her manager on LinkedIn, and both have received degrees from this institution while working, so it does seem like people actually use the tuition benefit.

          The final issue is that I currently have what I like to call a recession-era frankenjob. It’s at least two jobs mashed together. The variety of tasks is nice, but I feel like it makes it difficult to sell myself to employers because after 10 years in the workforce, I’m not sufficiently specialized. I’d be shifting to a role that’s more conventionally structured and that theoretically then has a clearer cut path to advancement.

          1. Jerry Vandesic*

            The challenge is that if you take this new job, you are essentially locked out of looking for a higher paying job for the next couple years. If you truly want to be making more money, you should focus on that goal and take yourself out of contention for this new job.

    14. Sam Foster*

      I would assume this a recruiter pushing a mismatched candidate for their own selfish needs. I don’t know if it’s a meeting numbers thing or they hope to get lucky thing but I see this a lot where we get a candidate through a recruiter and it is immediately clear the our expectations and the candidate’s are not at all aligned.

      1. Recruiter*

        I find it so interesting that so much shade is thrown at recruiters on this site, yet so many of you are willing to use them. Now, I am not a professional headhunter, just your average staffing agency recruiter, however this recruiter did their job. They presented a great candidate with clear expectations to the company, and the company was the one who dropped the ball. When people are your product, as they are for recruiters, there’s bound to be something that happens that is out of your control because of human nature. If your product is anything else, let’s say teapots, there are going to be errors made as well. I’m sure there are awful recruiters out there, but most are genuine and are not pushing people for their own selfish reasons. Unless that selfish reason is wanting someone to have a job they are happy in. There’s no shortage of candidates-everyone is replaceable and what makes a candidate way more valuable than skill of experience is a great attitude, work ethics, and adaptability. I wish the shade would go down on this site a bit because it’s an extremely valuable site that has helped me do my job better. I’m not in it for the money. After 4 years I am making $36k/yr…after my bonuses:)

  2. Bekx*

    Hi all – some new job transition questions for you!

    I just had a final interview with a company that would be a 40% raise and an increase in vacation. They told me that they will tell me late next week about the next step.

    1. At my current job, my boss asked me if I wanted a cell phone. I tried to hold off on having her order one, but she needed to know so I figured if she ordered the phone and I got the job, the company could use the phone elsewhere. Unfortunately, I was just asked to place an order for jackets, too, and the manager asking for it told me to order one for myself as well. These jackets are ~$80 a piece. I’m trying to hold off on ordering those, as well, but I probably can’t hold off until late next week. What should I do? Chances are no one else would wear these jackets (no one else in my small department is my size) I know it’s the cost of doing business, but well…I feel bad. At least the phone they can reuse, the jackets…probably not.

    2. My previous job was extremely toxic. When I interviewed for my current job, I remember feeling giddy and excited and wanting to work there. I….don’t feel that way with this new job. I’m excited about the pay, but the job itself might bore me. I probably won’t be there in 5 years, but I am extremely underpaid at my current job. Everyone seems nice, but the job itself seems like less responsibility and less variability than the one I currently have. I don’t know if this is a combination of nerves/the reality that I don’t NEED a new job, like I did last time, or what. Is this normal? Is it a red flag? Culturally, there were no warning signs about the job or company….it’s all just the job itself might bore me a little. It’s also in increase in responsibilties….I’ll go from being assigned work to do, to basically creating the work on my own (really, non-exempt to exempt in a lot of ways). I don’t know how to take this!

    3. Finally, I have two days of vacation left. I’m getting the sense that they would want me to start in January at the new place. Would it be wrong for me to take those 2 vacation days as I had planned? I’d be giving my company more than a 2 week notice, even with the holidays.

    1. fposte*

      1. Go ahead and order the jacket.
      2. That’s your call; it’s completely individual. You don’t have to feel all New Relationship Energy about a job prospect–lots of people don’t. But do you only want to leave for a job you feel that for? Because it would be okay to say that.
      3. You can take the vacation, but be aware if it’s planned during your notice period you might not be able to.

      1. Rex*

        Yeah, regarding your first question, you should proceed as if you’re not going anywhere. They could easily still decide not to hire you, their hiring decision could easily be delayed a few months especially with the holidays, you could decide it’s not worth it.

      2. Artemesia*

        And my standard for ‘excitement’ would be different if I were seriously underpaid and getting a 40% raise. You don’t want to go into a bad situation, but 40% and an okay situation is pretty attractive. Money makes your life better.

        1. Bekx*

          That’s exactly what I’m feeling. I don’t think this would be a bad situation…but I’m going from a huge company who has perks like a brand new office, company parties, giant bonuses to a very small company that has an old office and I’d be in a cubical farm. Everyone who has interviewed me has really stressed their culture and how they try very hard to be attractive to new employees and they are very flexible. My would be boss was very nice and I really, really liked her.

          But I’m comfortable here. And bored. And checked out. And my boss is having an affair with her boss and it’s AWKWARD and I’m being ignored. And underpaid.

          I think it’s just the nerves. I tend to focus on the small things that really don’t mean anything when I’m anxious. I’m hoping, at least, that it’s just nerves!

          1. Bess*

            It is totally find to downgrade in some areas for an upgrade in salary–particularly if you’re feeling underpaid. You might miss the nice building, etc., but if you know going in, I wouldn’t be too worried.

            I’ve had not-so-great jobs that still paid better than the previous one, that helped me build a more stable life, pay down debt, live by myself, build up savings, etc. Those are all good things that can make up for an older office, less exciting work, etc. I get anxious about this type of thing, too, but unless you have some bad vibes about the new place, it’s probably just transition anxiety.

          2. Anion*

            Sometimes the things we’re not excited about doing end up being the things we enjoy the most, at least for me. I wouldn’t take the lack of stomach-butterfly-excitement as any kind of bad sign; you could (and probably will) end up being very happy there. I took a job once as a stopgap just to get out of a job I disliked, and ended up loving the company and becoming a supervisor after about a year and a half. I still think of it as one of the best jobs I’ve ever had, and certainly the best “adult” office job I’ve ever had.

            It’s amazing the difference working with good, nice people can make, and the benefits of working for a company that cares about its employees and tries hard to make them happy can be huge.

          3. SignalLost*

            I would trade all those perks to not be dealing with a boss having an affair for reasons ranging to my moral code to professionalism, just saying.

            And on the pay front – if your current company is underpaying you but giving you giant bonuses … that’s preeeettty manipulative. My current company is explicitly stating that if we make X percent bonus it’s LIKE we got a $3/hr raise … but we didn’t get that raise, especially since it’s really easy to lose the bonus for circumstances more out of your control than in.

            1. Sandsong*

              Especially since more is withheld at the time when bonuses happen, as opposed to having more ‘cash’ in hand regularly from a raise.

          4. kittymommy*

            Have you looked at the benefits to see how they stack up? Vacay, sick leave, retirement. etc? The mention of large bonuses where you are at made me think of it?

            1. Bekx*

              I know the vacation starts a week more than what I currently have, and will go up another week after 2 years…..so much more than what I have.

              I’d be asking to check health insurance costs before I accept. I do know that bonuses are not guaranteed. At my current company I’m guaranteed 10% plus more depending on company profit….new company I’d really only be guaranteed a 3% bonus and it doesn’t sound like raises happen. 401(k) is much better than my current company.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      You say you don’t feel excited, but does it feel like you could continue to do the new job for a year to 18 months after you’ve settled in and learned the ropes? Is there room for advancement/a career trajectory from the role you interviewed for? Will there be the potential to take on additional/more interesting tasks as you acclimate to the position? In my experience, it’s pretty rare for a role to look exactly the same after 12-18 months as it did when you took it, it may evolve slightly or you may transition slightly based on what strengths you bring to the company.

      Also – it is super common after HAVING to find a new job to feel weird/different when you find the first new one post-escape job offer Suddenly you COULD have a new job, but you don’t have to – it feels really strange outside the panic and dread of escaping a toxic job. That huge sense of relief and escape isn’t there to tell you you’re making the “right” decision. It’s pretty easy to let doubts fill that space. Higher pay and more vacation time is nothing to sneeze at. If you think you could be reasonably happy/content in the new role for a couple years, I wouldn’t let worry hold you back necessarily or fall into the trap of thinking what’s familiar is actually better. And it may be there isn’t a RIGHT and WRONG choice here. 2 reasonably good companies with decent coworkers may just be a choice between 2 good options.

      Ask yourself this – if you DON’T take the new role, how much are you going to be wondering “what if” in 6 months time?

      1. Bekx*

        Thank you. I think you hit everything I’m feeling right on the head.

        That huge sense of relief and escape isn’t there to tell you you’re making the “right” decision.

        With my old job it was SUCH an obvious move. This….well…I could stay in my current role another year…but my performance will probably suffer.

        The new role…there really wouldn’t be much advancement, but I’m not someone who needs to climb the corporate ladder. I don’t necessarily want to be a manager, although I’m sure in a few years that may be something that I could do depending on the growth of my new department.

        If I stayed at my current role, even with the giant bonuses and tiny raises, in 5 years I wouldn’t make what the new role would be offering me now. I need the money. I picked up a second job just to pay some unexpected housing expenses. This would change my life. I think I know the right answer, I just needed someone to tell me that it’s okay to not be over the moon thrilled and ecstatic.

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          I’ve done a bit of toxic job fleeing myself :)
          It’s definitely okay not to be thrilled. And it’s definitely okay to let money be the biggest motivator! If it doesn’t seem like a bad company and the people seem nice, pay becomes a HUGE decision maker. And that’s absolutely fine! We all work to get paid. And honestly, a second job can be exhausting. So you should also be considering all the time you’d get back if you could quit the second job and depend on your primary to support you. That is also no small thing.

        2. Marley*

          “This would change my life.”

          That and the affair affecting your morale?

          I really hope you get the offer. Good luck!

          1. Bekx*

            Affair is absolutely affecting my moral. When your grandboss only lets your boss go on company trips/training and not you, it sucks! Morally I have a HUGE problem with it. I’ve lost respect for boss and grandboss.

    3. Mananana*

      Regarding your concern about being bored? Since you get to create work on your own, that shouldn’t be an issue. Feeling bored? Create a new task for yourself!

      Don’t let fear create problems where none exist. Go forth and do good things. (And order the jacket in a medium — it will be easier to fit someone else.)

    4. Malibu Stacey*

      Order the jacket. If they were going to fire you/lay you off, they wouldn’t ask for the jacket back like they would a company phone or computer.

      1. Epsilon Delta*

        Wait, no, why would you offer to pay for a jacket that you have no reason to wear anymore? $80 is a lot of money for a jacket you cannot/do not want to wear (I assume it’s going to have some kind of company branding).

        Try to stall on ordering the jacket if you can. But if there’s no way for you to avoid it or delay without making things weird, but I don’t see why you would need to pay for it if you give notice in a few weeks.

      2. SignalLost*

        Nope. It’s a cost of doing business for the company. It’s not something the employee has to repay if they leave. Even if they were fired, they don’t have to repay it, and there is no point to feeling guilty about the purchase.

    6. Bekx*

      Thank you everyone for your responses! I appreciate the feedback. I think a lot of it is just nerves :)

    7. Big City Woman*

      You haven’t been offered the new job yet – correct? I would caution you not to hang all your hopes on it just yet. Order the phone and order the jacket. Those are business expenses for your current employer to worry about and they can write them off, but they are needed because you still work there.

      It sounds to me like you are suffering from feeling pangs of disloyalty to your current job. If so, let them pass. You might want to apply to other jobs, too, to see what else is out there and disengage from thoughts that it’s either one or the other.

  3. Redundant Department of Redundancy*

    I’ve got an interview soon for an internal post. My line manager would remain the same, and part of the role would be as their deputy. She will be on the panel, along with someone else I’ve worked with before and someone from the other dept I’d be working with. I work for a large govt body, so they’ve offered in internal and external (It was only internal and 2 people other than me applied). They now have enough people for a full day of interviews. I’m really stressing about it, as I *should* be the perfect candidate, I know her role/my prior experience aligns with the other depts. I get one well with everyone, I really want the job (It’d let me break out of just admin). However, I can’t shake the feeling that they don’t want me??? If I was as perfect as I think for the role, then why would they need to interview so many other people? Maybe they don’t think I’m right and just don’t want to tell me direct?
    Do I ask them if they don’t want me? Do I keep quiet and prepare my socks off? I’m so lost and I’m about to go into a tailspin!

    1. Anne of Green Gables*

      I wouldn’t assume they don’t want you! A lot of places have a minimum number of applicants they need to interview–I know I can’t just interview one person. They also may just want to be sure that you are the best for the job. I wouldn’t ask, as it could put them in an odd position and even if you feel concerned about it, I wouldn’t vocalize that to those you’d be interview with. I think preparing and knocking their socks off is a great strategy. Good luck!!

      1. Rat Racer*

        Totally 1000% agree! Plus, knowing that you went up against internal and external candidates to get the job validates you, and lets you know you earned the job, it wasn’t handed to you.

      2. SignalLost*

        And in government, it may get nuttier. The last time I did a government interview, they checked my references even though they never offered me the job and it took them over a month to reject me. Government often has really arcane rules around hiring.

    3. misspiggy*

      Employers usually want to see who’s out there, even if they have an excellent internal candidate. It protects them from accusations of stagnation or nepotism, and it makes sense to check whether internal people actually do compare well to the external population.

      Nevertheless you should have a huge advantage with your inside knowledge, so don’t worry.

    4. Amber O.*

      I would NOT ask them if they don’t want you- that’s going to come across as insecure and maybe a little paranoid. If they weren’t interested or didn’t think you were qualified, they wouldn’t be interviewing you. They probably want to interview a wide range of candidates, rather than limiting their options. It doesn’t reflect on you or your skills! Focus on preparing yourself and don’t worry about the rest.

    5. LibraryBee*

      Prepare your socks off! I work for the county government, and they are required by law to interview a specific % of qualified candidates. As far as I know it’s to avoid favoritism, nepotism, and giving an “equal” opportunity.
      Good luck!

    6. Adhyanon*

      I know that sometimes interviews are required depending on how the job is classified. Also, sometimes they’re held to provide institutional legitimacy to an internal candidate. It likely has nothing to do with your qualifications.

    7. Your Weird Uncle*

      Oh that’s so exciting for you – definitely prepare as you would on an any other interview. They wouldn’t interview you just out of kindness, so you’ve absolutely got a great chance here!

      I recently went through an internal interview (and got the job) when I was up against other candidates who had more direct management experience. I tried to focus on my experience in the department and was able to speak of ways I thought the department could improve, what was working, etc.

      I also highly, highly recommend Alison’s suggested question during the interview: ‘Are there any reservations you have about my fit for the position that I could try to address?’ I used that and was able to get some of their reservations (in my example, one of my good friends would be someone I would be expected to manage) out in the open and address how I would deal with it.

      Good luck!

    8. Footiepjs*

      This is city government, but when I was a library page, my supervisor told me that HR told her to interview 10 people if she could. These are short, 30 minute interviews, but still! So there’s probably a minimum there. You might be the person they have in mind, but they could have guidelines to follow.

      Definitely do not ask.

    9. Rusty Shackelford*

      Since it’s a government body, I’d be surprised if they DIDN’T interview at least three people!

    10. USSRian Jew Esq.*

      I work for govt (3 years) of an east coast state and I had to interview for a position in a department where I had already done their specific work, got briefly trained and everything. I had worked with this department for over a year and was basically a go-to liason between departments that also got stuff done (not admin). They still interviewed me. It was the Director and program manager interviewing me, the ones who assigned me the work they knew I had done before. So no, it’s not that they don’t want you, it’s that interviewing is the standard course of action! You didn’t ask for a promotion, you applied for a different position that was (I’m assuming) available for people outside the org to apply for. Fair is fair, everyone has to be treated equally.

    11. Mrs. D*

      I agree with the other comments recommending that you don’t ask if they want you. It would not be a professional way to put yourself forward here.

      I work in the public sector (public school district), so perhaps I can offer some perspective. What I’ve seen and experienced is that there is a definite hierarchy of candidates when a job is posted. Internal candidates are grouped into two areas: transfers, and applicants. The transfers would come into play only if someone with the same job title is applying for the position, i.e. someone working at another site that wants to move to the site where the job is located. If there are no transfers, then the other internal applicants are considered. And my understanding (which seems to be mirrored by other comments) is that they have to interview more than one person for the position. My feeling is that they do this so as not to open up accusations of “playing favorites,” but I could be wrong. So you may be the perfect candidate, but they have requirements they have to meet during the application process to ensure the process is “fair.”

      This is not something to get super-stressed over. Think about it this way: yes, you really want the new job, but if you don’t get it you’re no worse off. You still have a job that you can do (and do well), and there will likely be a future opportunity for you to grow into and continue to impress your boss(es) and colleagues. Good luck!

    12. Prudencep*

      My current role was advertised internally first and I applied. Then they decided to go external.. I was pretty devastated and started wondering what it meant for my future there. But I did get the job! It was a three-pronged reason it went external: 1. not enough appropriate internal candidates, 2. wanting to test the market because it had been a new position for about 2 years and they wanted a sense of where it was sitting, and 3. they wanted any internal candidate who got it to know that they didn’t JUST get it because they were internal.

      So it’s really hard to tell who or what they are looking for. If you don’t get it (and I really hope you do!), would they be open to giving you feedback?

    13. Sam Foster*

      Prepare, go through the process and be prepared not to be selected. Just because YOU think you are a perfect match doesn’t mean you match the “perfect version” the hiring people have in mind.

    14. Insufferable Bureaucrat*

      Totally agre with all the comments that it has to do with rigid hiring practices requiring a minimum number of candidates to be interviewed, not that they don’t want you. I work in city government and been involved in a lot of hiring. It’s actually very possible that you are the top candidate that they already know they want and the hiring panel is grumbling that hr is making them waste an entire day interviewing 10 other lesser candidate because it’s a policy.
      One piece of advice from my experience sitting on hiring panels with both internal and external candidates, including internal candidates I work with regularly: interview scoring is extremely structured, least where I work. We are required to evaluate you only on what you say in the interview and there is a set list of skills or “competencies” we have to look for in each question. So if I ask you to describe your experience and I’m looking for experience in teapot handle assembly you need to tell me that you have experience assembling teapot handles to get a good score on that question. Even if I directly supervise you assembling teapot handles every day you still have to explain that you know how to do it in your interview or else I have to assume you don’t. Is that incredibly stupid? Yes, yes it is. But it is. I’ve seen many internal candidates not move past the first round of interviews because they assumed we could rely on our prior knowledge of their skills during the interview process. Assume you’ve never met the interview panel before and you need to wow them just on the interview. As an internal candidate your experience WILL give you a leg up as long as you discuss it in your interview. Good luck!

  4. Murphy*

    I sent this in a few months ago, and it’s becoming relevant with the holidays coming up, so I’m going to ask it here. Short version: Do I need to explain that I don’t work on the weekends/holidays?

    I’m staff at a university in a nonacademic department. I interact frequently with professors, who work at all hours and can email me at any time. This is fine, as they’re mostly reasonable and don’t expect a response until the next morning. But sometimes they’re not reasonable. Someone emailed me after 5pm on the Friday before Labor Day weekend (so, after I’d left) telling me that something wasn’t working. I got another email from them on Labor Day, saying that it “still” wasn’t working and they seemed a bit annoyed. I’m salaried nonexempt, and I generally don’t check my email on the weekends unless there’s something big going on. I have to clock in to track my hours. Should I have to explain this? I feel like it’s obvious, though I understand that this isn’t how professors operate.

    1. Manders*

      It should be obvious, but you’re right that professors can lose track of the fact that everyone doesn’t keep their work schedule. Could you set an automated reply on your email that responds with a message about when you’ll be checking your email during the times you’re out of the office?

      1. Redundant Department of Redundancy*

        Yes, I’d second an auto reply with something saying when you’re back in. Or if you think people will read it you could put ‘Advance notice of leave’ in your signiture (for holiday) or something about your working hours. I work with a lot of people who do both, and it’s useful so if I email them and they won’t be in I can find someone else.

        1. Artemesia*

          Why not. if your role is IT then somebody should be on call for fixing whatever isn’t working. But if you are an admin and it is the copier or fax machine, well tough beans. Someone should be in charge of making sure it is working and filled with paper and toner on Friday afternoon; professors work weekends. But you are not ‘on call’ and shouldn’t have to be and I would have an out of office message you just put up Friday at 5 and take down Monday at arrival time since it has been an issue.

          1. Anonygoose*

            If no one else is working because it’s the weekend, I think that professors should figure out how to add paper and change toner on their own.

        2. LizB*

          Can you put that info in your signature? Just a quick “Work Hours: M-F 9-5” or whatever might help.

        3. Manders*

          Most email programs should have a way to automate it so it goes on by itself during certain hours.

          I grew up with professors, and trust me, there’s no magic way to phrase this request so that you can tell them just once and they’ll remember it. You have to automate it so they’ll get an instant reminder every single time. Especially when it’s grading time.

        4. SignalLost*

          I’ve seen that in both academia and the private sector. A good friend of mine is support staff for the university in our city and she sets an away message every weekend, updated if there’s a holiday or she’s on vacation. It’s actually a little maddening because she won’t switch her contact info for the associations we are both in to her personal email address, but I wind up emailing her work address more than I would like because of that. IOW, the problem is that she won’t use the right email address in the right context, leading to her not getting info in a timely fashion, not that I get an auto reply. The auto reply seems pretty courteous to me.

        5. Adlib*

          I work with a travel agent who puts up an away message every day because a lot of her work is time sensitive for corporate travelers. It’s helpful because I know when she’s at her desk or not, and I can manage expectations.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Do you use an out of office on your email when you’re out? If you set up one of those with your work hours and when you can be expected to return to the office, and b) start returning/addressing emails, it may cut down on some of that. In my role, I need to put one on any time I’m out of the office (even just for the evening) as it directs clients to a 24 hour support hotline. I’ve noticed that it really cuts down on disgruntled responses when I provide the additional timeline details.

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        Sorry that should say “If you set up one of those with * a) your work hours and when you can be expected to return to the office, and b) when you’ll start returning/addressing emails*

    3. Dee-Nice*

      My job is similar, and I’ve also received emails from people at odd times that had a tone of annoyance at my seeming slowness to respond. I might respond along the lines of, “Sorry for the slow response. I did not receive your email until after I returned from the long weekend,” and let them figure it out. I wouldn’t bother explaining any more to them unless they call you out directly.

    4. ArtK*

      First, and foremost, never respond during your time off. If the building is burning down, they can call the fire department just as easily as you can. Telling them that you don’t work weekends or holidays is not nearly as good as showing them that you don’t. If it’s really a problem for them, they can escalate and then you and your boss can discuss your working hours — or you can proactively discuss this with your boss.

      Unless it’s in your job description, you aren’t required to respond to the demands of unreasonable people. Just because they are upset, it doesn’t mean that you’re doing anything wrong.

      1. Cotton Balls*

        Just because they are upset, it doesn’t mean that you’re doing anything wrong

        The most perfect sentence every written and I really needed to hear (read) it today.

      3. No Parking or Waiting*

        Telling them that you don’t work weekends or holidays is not nearly as good as showing them that you don’t.
        So much this! It avoids the mixed message resulting from, “I read your email and will do X, but can’t do Y.”
        Leave no gray area.

    5. Q without U*

      No, you don’t need to explain it. You can start your reply email with something like ‘Hope you had a great weekend/holiday” and maybe they will get the hint, but faculty understand that people work regular hours and aren’t available 24/7. They may not like it, they may get annoyed, but unless you’re on call, that’s their problem, not yours.

      1. Yorick*

        Don’t start an email that way, it’s too passive and they won’t understand what you meant. Also, they didn’t enjoy their weekend because they had this problem that they thought you would be able to solve. Just explain that you couldn’t help them because you don’t work weekends and holidays. Using a signature with your work hours and an out-of-office message should help too.

      2. Lala*

        Faculty *should* understand, but it is amazing how many of them really do not. It’s more a matter of them being caught up in their own stuff than anything else. They usually get it with normal weekends, but staff often work holidays that faculty don’t (my professor spouse is effectively on vacation for a month between semesters while I’m still going in to work on campus for three weeks of that time b/c I’m staff, staff don’t get spring break, etc.), so it’s harder for them to keep track of which holidays you can expect someone to be around or not.

        Easiest solution to this is to set up an “out of office” message on holidays/long weekends. I wouldn’t bother with doing it every single weekend

    7. Laura*

      I think when you respond you can (nicely) say that you respond to requests during regular business hours, and that you’re sorry that off-hour support isn’t offered at this time (if it makes sense for your particular role, make it sound like an official department policy). Then, if you’re away for a standard working day, make sure you have your out-of -office on.

      1. Murphy*

        Oh, if I’m out during a working day, I definitely use out of office, but I don’t put one up every weekend (or on days when the university is closed, as was the case with labor day.)

        1. Artemesia*

          And you shouldn’t have to, but apparently you do. It is the solution to the problem you mention. Most people won’t have to because some jackass doesn’t expect support on the weekend from staff not so assigned; but your jackass does expect it, so this is the way to train him to understand that it isn’t happening.

        2. Someone else*

          Yeah, your choices are basically either: default to always have an out of office, even when it should be obvious, or when you do return, making sure that part of your response makes it clear that you didn’t respond sooner because it was the weekend and you don’t work weekends. If this is becoming a major problem, in that it happens every weekend or every holiday, I’d lean toward the OOO to be turned on whenever you’re not working, even though that shouldn’t be necessary. If it’s a thing that’s frequent enough that it stresses you but not frequent enough that it’d apply every weekend, or if you think it might read as odd or too aggressive to use the OOO that way, then just make sure every time you encounter someone who seemed pissed you didn’t fix something on a Saturday that you’re telling them why it didn’t get fixed on Saturday. It needn’t be adversarial when you do so, just matter of fact. If it’s consistently the same person and they still get huffy, then you know you have a them problem not a you problem.

    8. Sunflower*

      I don’t work at a university but I am also salaried, non-exempt and I work at a law firm where people work until all hours of the night. I really don’t think the majority of people know I’m not exempt and they just expect everyone to work 24/7 because they do. My old boss asked me to put on an OOO every day with her as the contact. It’s incredibly annoying and I find it ridiculous but I don’t really know what else to do. Lawyers aren’t able to keep track of who works when so the OOO leaves it up to them to decide how important the email is. (sorry if this isn’t applicable to you since I know universities operate differently)

    9. Ama*

      I was an academic admin for almost a decade, and in my experience there are always a handful of people who can’t quite get through their heads that admin staff generally work regular office hours and not weekends (an additional complication I learned is that many European universities apparently are open on Saturdays so some of the postdocs I worked with from those areas took a bit longer to adjust to the concept of staff weekends.. Most people I let figure this out on their own, but in situations like the one you describe, where someone tried to contact me multiple times before I returned to the office, I usually began my response with a polite “Apologies that you’ve been having trouble — our office is only open 9-5 weekdays so I’m just seeing this now, but I am [whatever the plan for assistance was].” The key is to phrase it so the apology is for the *problem* they’ve been having and not the delay in your response, but also sliding in there a polite aside that contacting you multiple times over the evening/weekend isn’t going to get them a response any faster.

      But it also helps to just remember that *they’re* the ones being unreasonable, you aren’t doing anything wrong. I once had a postdoc email me at 7 pm on a Saturday and then again at 8:30 am Monday morning wanting to know why she didn’t have an answer yet — and then called one of my colleagues at 9:10 am to ask *her* while complaining I wasn’t responding to her. Once I explained to the colleague the deal she just rolled her eyes and we both laughed.

      1. Jennifer*

        We’re very specifically not supposed to be working before 8 a.m. or whatever your official start time is (one of my coworkers got yelled at for it) or after 5 p.m.

    10. AnotherJill*

      Not to excuse any bad behavior, but if the issue is one that affects students completing their work, the professor is likely getting tons of email from students which heightens their sense of urgency.

      Even if you don’t respond right away, a quick check of your email on the weekend can help let you plan for Monday, so that you can be more quickly responsive once back at work, which can help alleviate some of the frustrations.

      1. Murphy*

        It definitely wasn’t like that. The guy was doing some work for my office, so if anything, I was the one being inconvenienced by this thing not working, it was me.

        I get a lot of weird/unreasonable requests, so I don’t check email unless I’m prepared to do some work. Otherwise it causes me unnecessary stress to be worrying about it when I’m not working.

        1. AnotherJill*

          Sounds like your system works for you! I’m more the opposite, so when working was an incessant email checker.

    11. No Parking or Waiting*

      My company avoids this issue by blocking access to work email from anywhere other than our computers. We would have to remote access our desktop computer, which then creates a record of the person working. Which is what they want to avoid having non-exempt, salaried employees doing.
      It’s great. I didn’t get the email.

    12. it_guy*

      I would suggest an out of office rule that tells them because of the holiday, responses may be delayed until the start of the next business day.

    13. dear liza dear liza*

      The professors failure to plan during normal work hours does not constitute an emergency on your part.

      Whether you put an out-of-office message on your email depends, to me, on how often people get in a snit. If “sometimes” means just once in a while, eh, do nothing. If it’s happening at least once a month, consider the message, but it’s still not required.

    14. Samiratou*

      It might not hurt to check with your boss on his/her expectations for you outside of hours. Use this as an example, and ask if you’re expected to respond (and log your time) for these issues on weekends or if they have other advice. It’s a bit of a CYA in case the requesters go above your head and lets your boss know you’re getting these type of requests in case they want to address them separately.

    15. Bess*

      Oh, faculty. Refuse to have meetings before 11am, send emails all weekend!

      I think they really forget, and also there’s a lot of university staff who work lots of extra hours, especially when you go higher up the chain. So they might be used to some folks just kinda always being available.

      If there isn’t an expectation in your own job to be available 24/7, I don’t think you really need to worry about it. If it wasn’t someone I knew well or worked with often, I would respond to that email when I got back in and say “just getting back in, here’s the answer.”

      I’d maybe make an exception if it was a particularly warm relationship or they were really in a jam and clarified the urgency. Maybe.

    16. Lorelai Gilmore*

      Academics are a socially-dense bunch. I’d think even an auto-responder wouldn’t stop them from emailing you 3 days later. They just don’t seem to comprehend that kind of thing. I think even just mentioning it in a response once your back would be fine. I’m sure there is a better way to phrase it (without apologizing, because you don’t need to apologize, but I can’t ever seem to help myself)… “Sorry for the delay in response, I was out of the office for the holiday.”

  5. BRR*

    How do you feel appreciated and valued at work? I feel completely unappreciated and that nobody values what I do. I can’t quite put my finger on why because I’m told that I’m doing a great job and I know my contributions are important for what we do. This is both from my manager and other colleagues who use my work. I would love to hear from all of you about this.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Can you remember a time when you did feel appreciated? Why did you?
      Do you feel appreciated outside work? When and why?

    2. [insert witty user name here]*

      I do think this is going to be different for everyone, but I’ve felt most appreciated in a few ways: first, money. A good raise or a bonus is #1 for me. Barring that – second, flexibility. Being able to work from home 3 days/week and flexing my hours as needed is a HUGE perk for me. Third, opportunities. I was recently selected to represent my department at a corporate training. We were told the people selected for this were seen as future leaders of the company and all-around rockstars at their job. Even smaller opportunities, such as more interface with a customer or higher-level manager shows trust and confidence in my abilities.

      I’m interested to see what others have to say!

      1. Allypopx*

        Seconding flexibility. Knowing I can leave early/come in late without consequence because people trust me to get my work done. Managing my time without someone looking over my shoulder. Being allowed to take the occasional mental health day without getting grilled for it.

        I also appreciate the occasional “good job” or “thank you”. Those are nice.

      2. Fortitude Jones*

        All of the things you listed, as well as the occasional “good job” and “thank you” from management as mentioned by Allypopx, are how I feel appreciated in the workplace. I had that at my now ex company, and once that stuff stopped, I found a new job. If this new company doesn’t provide those things, well…

    3. Nita*

      Is it possible you’re not seeing the end result of your work? Do you get to see the finished “product,” or get any feedback from client?

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      PS I feel appreciated when I feel my opinion is valued and am trusted / given responsibility for things. I’m not so much about the words. Have you heard of the love languages? Is it possible you need something other than words?

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Yes, this is how I feel appreciated, too. Words are nice, but giving me more responsibility, trusting me enough to confide in me and ask my opinion. Stuff like that matters more to me.

      2. BRR*

        This might be part of it. My opinion doesn’t always feel valued. (This is often by a pain that nobody likes to work with but still).

    5. TCO*

      I’ve felt unvalued when I get nice enough feedback on my work but the work I’m doing doesn’t feel like a good match for me. For instance, when I find my tasks too easy or I don’t like doing them, the feedback feels empty because it’s not really showing appreciation for what I think my true talents are. It doesn’t feel like I’m being seen.

      I’d also look into the languages of appreciation/love languages if you’re not familiar with the concept. You might like being recognized in different ways than what you’re receiving. You might be able to ask for a different kind of recognition, but even if that’s not possible in your workplace you might feel better if you understand how to interpret the appreciation you do receive even if it’s not your chosen “language.”

    6. Alternative person*

      A few things

      -Being given responsibility
      -Getting credit for my input (rather than the end result produced by the client I’m supporting)
      -Being included in general conversations
      -Having my suggestions being discussed and sometimes accepted
      -Being approached by co-workers for help

      For me, it’s more than being told I’m doing a good job, I like to feel my input is understood and valued.

    7. Mediamaven*

      If you are being told that you do a great job then what demonstration of appreciation do you feel you aren’t receiving? Just curious – I have a manager who has a high level of responsibility and her need for constant cheers and accolades and exclamation points has left me completely drained so I’m a little sensitive.

    8. Ama*

      I do. And I think a big portion of it is my boss is very specific when she gives me praise (both privately and publicly) — and she makes sure to praise all facets of my work. For example, in the last couple of months she has very publicly thanked me for my handling of our most important 50 person in-person meeting that is essential to our operations, and internally thanked me for a detailed spreadsheet project that I created voluntarily (and which, though she really likes it, if I came to her and said “look I’ve got no time for this project this year” she would let me drop it).

      At a previous job I often only got praise (and even then, not often) for the really public facing portions of my work or the end result of a long-term project but phrased in such a way that it was clear the person praising didn’t really understand all the work involved. For example I was once thanked for “arranging the coffee” for a meeting, with no acknowledgement that I was actually the person who made and served the coffee — and had to come in early and leave late that day plus interrupt my normal work day several times to freshen things. And in the same week the massive amount of work hours I put into coordinating our annual report got completely ignored other than (“hey this looks good – you picked a good printer”).

    9. Solo*

      I feel appreciated and valued when:
      * I’m given opportunities to stretch and grow, especially projects that require me to learn new things, and formal training opportunities when appropriate
      * I am asked for my input on a decision or to assist in brainstorming/defining a project
      * I am informed about or given feedback on the resolution of a task/project (whether it was a task assigned to me, or that I assigned to someone else, or something that came up in an impromptu brainstorming session)
      * I get “FYI” communication that keeps me up-to-date on work/discussions that is distinct from but relevant to my core responsibilities
      * I see evidence that my base pay/benefits are in line with or above the market rate, based on my role and experience
      * I’m granted flexibility to do work my own way (e.g., working from home, flexing time for dr appts, pushing back on scope (& scope creep), etc)

      I feel devalued when:
      * I am given inadequate/inappropriate lead time on a meeting — e.g., coming in to the office at 8am to see that I missed a 7am meeting when I first received the invitation at 1am. (The three major time zones represented on my current project are each 8 hours off from each other, with a handful of stakeholders sprinkled across intermediate timezones.)
      * Someone in a position of relative power over me communicates an implicit or explicit expectation that I will have always-on availability.
      * … I’m faced with any kind of boundary-testing behavior in the workplace, really.
      * A coworker is paid more than I am, without obvious compensating factors like experience / increased responsibilities / higher performance etc

      I feel …conflicted when:
      * I’m praised publicly, especially if that praise feels hyperbolic or fundamentally different to how the praiser communicates with/to other members of the team

    10. Not So NewReader*

      A shot in the dark here: Do YOU appreciate and value what you do? This is something that comes from inside us and no amount of reassurance from others can really change that.

      One thing I noticed is the odd times I heard kudos. Clear a jam from a copier and I am a miracle worker. Do two months worth of work the size of Mount Everest and crickets. Some people have a knack for rewarding the small stuff with compliments and ignoring the big stuff. I caught myself kind of losing respect for those people who consistently did this as the years went by.

      After a bit, I started realizing that I had choices. I could look to others to find the value of my own work OR I could decide to focus on doing the job in a manner that I am proud of ME. This is beyond being able to sleep at night because of sticking to one’s values or ethics. This is the quiet knowing that I gave it my best today. What is nice about thinking this way, is that it includes the fact that some days are better than others. Some days I break everything I touch and I just want to crawl under a rock. Other days I am standing on the rock pumping my fist in the air, “Go ME!” It’s not possible to be a superstar everyday because machines break, cohorts blow off deadlines, things get lost in email land and so on. Too much of what we do is contingent on what is going on Over There Somewhere.

      You could try this, ask yourself, “Given my givens today, do I think I did my best that I could do?” If the answer is yes then you have had a successful day. You can appreciate and value what you have accomplished today.

      PS. Today I am breaking everything I touch. I give myself points for continuing on anyway.

      1. BRR*

        Interesting question. I do value what I do which is why I think I’m so frustrated. I’ve been job hunting since I’ve started here but unfortunately niche career.

      1. Let's Sidebar*

        Wow, I really disagree with this. The opportunities for professional growth and connections that I would not have access to without management assistance have always been a major benefit to me in my career.

    12. All Hail Queen Sally*

      I once worked at a place where management refused to acknowledge any efforts made by staff. (But we sure heard if anything ever went wrong!). My co-workers and I banded together and made sure that we acknowledged and appreciated each other frequently. It just seemed to mean more coming from someone who cared. We all still keep in touch, five years later.

    13. Jake*

      I feel reasonably appreciated I guess, but to be honest, feeling appreciated ooga pretty low on my priority list.

      I’m much more worried about my pay, benefits, workload, manager’s integrity, etc. Than whether I feel appreciated. I figure if any off those 4 are a major problem, no amount of appreciation is going to make up for it. If those 4 are in decent shape, then i can handle not feeling appreciated, unless people are actively going out of their way to make me feel that way i guess.

    14. breadrolls*

      The things that make me feel valued are pretty straightforward: monetary compensation and recognition of/support for my professional growth.

      I’m currently without a permanent manager, and the fact that my interim manager doesn’t understand my work at all–and doesn’t even care to know what I’m working on most of the time–makes me feel exhausted and unmotivated. His dismissiveness frankly makes me wonder if the organization wouldn’t be better off going to back to outsourcing all the work I currently do to a vendor.

      1. BRR*

        ^Part of this. Nobody really understands what I do. They understand the end product but not the how.

    15. MissDisplaced*

      Well, I sure knew I didn’t feel appreciated at my OldJob when my manager said they “Didn’t really need a digital marketing manager.”
      Apparently, he did *need* me 2 months after I left when he was contacting me about how to make website changes. I didn’t feel the need to help him.

    16. Prudencep*

      I find it awkward to receive direct compliments or thanks, especially in public, so I think it’s more things like:
      – having some flexibility where I need it
      – knowing I can call my boss or drop by her office any time I really need to
      – having a boss who comes down to our floor to talk to people and having a genuine interest in what we’re doing
      – being trusted to do things of my own accord
      – having someone come to be because my boss has suggested that I’m the one who can help with that
      – being delegated to
      – having my team members ask me for my advice either on how to do something, or on what I think of their approach

  6. Mona Lisa*

    Looking for suggestions of questions you would ask or have asked when interviewing for a job you’re already working.

    I’ve been in a special assignment for 3 months from another department at the same organization, and the permanent position for which my new office plans to hire me finally posted this week. We’re going through the formal HR process, and I expect to be called in for an interview next week. Usually I would ask questions about workplace environment, management styles, goals, etc., but since I’ve already been working here for a while, I don’t need them to answer those for me. I’ll probably ask what a successful first year would look like for the position, but I’m hoping people might have some ideas for other questions I should consider asking.

    Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions!

    1. Frozen Ginger*

      I don’t think it would hurt to ask if there are any differences between your current role and the role you’re interviewing for. You say they’re the same, but thee might still be differences between an assignment post and a permanent position. Maybe you’ll have more responsibility; maybe you’ll have more input on decisions. I don’t know, but like I said, can’t hurt to ask.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        I think I could find a way to ask something about whether they see the role growing or expanding beyond its current scope once I’m on permanently. I have ideas about how they’ll answer that, but maybe they’ll surprise me!

    2. OtterB*

      Successful first year is good. You might also ask them if they’ve had other people transition from special assignment to a permanent role and if there’s anything they can suggest about how to make the transition successful.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        It’s a brand new office with people coming over from another existing place. The special assignment was negotiated between my old college and the new central department since HR was dragging its feet. (The finalized position has been in their hands since June.) I’ll definitely ask about a successful first year!

    3. Prudencep*

      You could always ask what from their perspectives might be some of the challenges or the position, what they think is the most valuable skill someone would bring to the position, or if they have a key focus for what the role will need to do first? Good luck!

  7. Discombobulated Englishman*

    Thank to everyone last week who made suggestions on giving a presentation at an interview!

    I had 8 brief slides and was well inside the 5 minutes. Nerves got the best of me, but I got my main points across. If I get an offer they said they want to expedite the recruitment process and get someone in ASAP so fingers crossed- I find out on my birthday!!

  8. Overworked*

    My job requires 24/7 coverage, and I am scheduled to work Christmas Day this year. Since it’s a company holiday, only essential staff are working and everyone else gets the day off. Up until now, my department has had two people per shift working holidays, but now they have decided to cut back to one person per shift on holidays. We would normally have 6 people working dayshift on a Monday (our busiest day of the week), but on Christmas Day I’m expected to do all of the work single-handedly.

    My department is one of the few with extremely strict deadlines for the majority of our work, much of which is required every day or every shift. So, although we will have bare-bones staffing, we will have almost the same amount of work as we normally do on a fully-staffed day (maybe a little less just because we won’t get as many calls or requests from other departments as usual), and I am the one getting stuck with a ridiculous workload.

    I begged my manager to put just one more person on the schedule that day, even for a half-day, and his response was that we’re going to postpone most of the work until later in the week so people can have the day off to spend with their families. I sent him a list of all the work that’s scheduled for that day (35+ tasks) and asked which things can be postponed, and he replied with ONE task that can be postponed! And that one task is something that takes about 5 minutes, so it’s not going to help very much.

    Even though it’s almost a month away, I am absolutely dreading this day. I’m losing sleep over it. I’ve been in the horrible position of being expected to do the work of 4 or 5 people before, and I can’t stand the thought of going through it again — the 12 straight frantic hours without even having time to eat or go to the bathroom. I agree with my manager that nothing (except the one small thing) can feasibly be postponed until later in the week, so I can’t just blow it off. I’m non-exempt, so I can’t even stay late to finish everything. I’m known for being the hardest worker in the department, and I am very efficient, but I have a limit and this is too much.

    I don’t know what to do because I have asked my manager to schedule a second person and he said no (after discussing it with our director, who is notoriously tight-fisted about overtime), and I am being put in a situation where I am bound to fail. Should I keep asking in hopes of convincing my manager that this is impossible? Should I go over my director’s head and try to convince his boss that this is going to be a problem? Should I just resign myself to failing and having to face the consequences?

    1. NoMoreMrFixit*

      I’ve been in that type of situation before. I told my boss that I could accomplish x tasks out of a total of y and wanted their input on which specific tasks I should focus on. A reasonable manager will give you some feedback on priorities.

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        I’d flip that a bit and make a proposal: “Given that I’ll be on my own on Christmas, here’s what I’m proposing to get done on Christmas Day. Based on my experience with these projects, this will take 8 hours, so if we want to move something else onto this list we will need to move something else off. Let me know if these are the right priorities or if we need to sit down and talk through any adjustments together. ”

        You could also offer a list of what you could get done with one additional person in the office.

        1. Frozen Ginger*

          This! Overworked already _asked_ what could be cut back and didn’t get a sufficient answer. Now’s the time to _tell_ boss what will get done.

          1. Overworked*

            The problem is that my manager is right that only the one thing can be postponed. I don’t know what to say I’m not going to do, because everything else on the list actually is important, which is why we usually schedule enough people on Mondays to do that much work.

            1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

              Yes, it’s an impossible situation. But you can’t do it all, right? (Like, literally — if it takes 5 people to do it all on a normal day, you couldn’t get it all done on your own even if you worked 18 hours, right?)

              So: Some things that have to get done won’t get done. That’s just the reality. You need your boss to be perfectly clear about what won’t get done so that she can own the repercussions of the choice to only schedule one person. And, perhaps, laying it out as starkly as I’m proposing will cause her to reconsider her scheduling.

              I’m assuming that the tasks you’re going to be juggling aren’t doing direct harm to living beings. Like, if you work at a doggie day care — the dogs need to be fed; it would be morally wrong not to feed them and there would be a different conversation to be had.

              But if it’s business process that needs to occur to make sure a vendor gets paid on time, and if it doesn’t it will trigger a $50,000 fine? That’s your boss’s problem, not yours.

            2. The Cosmic Avenger*

              This is likely to be a huge failure and a disaster…but not because of anything you did or did not do! It’s totally on management for not allocating enough time or labor hours for the things they want to get done.

              They are trying to manipulate you into working a ridiculous number of hours that day, and you should not fall for it. I agree with everyone who says to provide a ranked, prioritized list, and mark off the things you think you can realistically get done in 8 hours. If they tell you to add something, tell them something else will have to be removed in order to fit that into one shift. And make sure to send all this by email, so you have a record of having warned them that they WILL miss many of these deadlines if they don’t add man hours (either additional workers or additional shifts).

            3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

              I should say that I’ve been in this position. I once was responsible for running an event with — and this is not a typo — 100,000 volunteers, with a staff of four (three salaried, one AmeriCorps).

              We had great systems in place to make most of it work well, but the week before the event itself? Some important things didn’t happen. They just couldn’t. We all worked 18 hour days, and I still didn’t even listen to all of my voicemails (I mean that literally; there were voicemails left the week before the event that I didn’t listen to until after the event had happened.)

              (Whenever I tell people this story they wonder how it was possible, so let me nip that thread in the bud by saying that we had hundreds of experienced volunteer leads who did the direct management of most of the volunteer projects. We recruited and trained those lead volunteers, many of whom had been involved with the event for over a decade, and they handled the day-to-day stuff.)

            4. Green bean*

              It sounds like you are saying that there are 34 must do tasks but you won’t be able to do all of them on your own. If you can estimate what you can get done and flag that these specific 20 tasks won’t happen, i find the specificity of that can be helpful to make it more real to your boss that these are the actual ramifications of his decision to only put one person on. And it sounds like you may need to do that anyway, if you can’t physically get it all done on your own.

            5. Jules the Third*

              You have to cut through the anxiety and ‘it’s all important!’ somehow, and since your boss isn’t helping, that ‘you’ means *you*.

              Here’s some possible rules for assessing the impact if things are not done:
              1) Will someone die? (real question, if you’re in, say, healthcare)
              2) Will someone go to jail?
              3) Does it stop a critical function, or just make it harder?
              4) How much time will someone else lose / have to spend dealing with this being missed? (Anything under 10 hours = lower priority)
              5) How long does it take? (if five tasks are equal importance, do them shortest first)
              6) Can any of it be time-shifted forward to Saturday or Sunday? Even just having someone set up templates so that all you have to do is push the button and copy/paste data (without having to update headers or the like) will help.

              Do hand your boss a list of ‘here’s the things that can get done in 8 hours. If you want to add anything, you have to take something off this list or come in and do it yourself.’ Perfect your bland, ‘sorry, I can’t bend the laws of space and time’ response. Let go of the stuff you can’t get done – maybe see Alison’s post on getting less ’emotionally invested’ from earlier this week.

              You may get the prioritization wrong, but that’s on your BOSS who isn’t helping you prioritize this into a smaller, manageable workload, and on your director who is not staffing correctly. And if this isn’t stuff where people will be dying or going to jail, it’s not important enough to drive yourself into a heart attack for it. $$s is just counters in a game, people are real, and matter. You matter.

              1. Overworked*

                Yeah, boss refuses to prioritize because he refuses to acknowledge that it’s not possible to get everything done. It is difficult to prioritize because it mainly boils down to checking to make sure everything is ok, and it usually is. If something’s not ok (which is highly unlikely, but the fact that it’s possible is why I’m required to check), it could be very serious and people could die and/or go to jail, but I wouldn’t know in advance which thing I check would be the problem.

                Another weird thing about the situation is that not only am I testing for problems, but I’m also testing the testing equipment. If I have to check the voltage on the widgets, first I have to test the voltage meter to make sure it’s reading correctly. Testing the voltage meter doesn’t seem all that important — and it’s not as important as actually checking the voltage — but it’s a requirement to test the voltage meter before using it. Even though checking the voltage is the important thing (and truly the higher priority), I can’t just go checking the voltage without first testing the voltage meter.

                But, you are right that even in a situation where everything is “top priority,” I can separate things that are a little higher or lower.

                1. Friday*

                  People could *actually* die?! Then you need to escalate over your crappy boss. Grandboss? Regulating body of authority? Licensing board? Anyone – just make it known, with a paper trail for yourself, that you are doing all in your power now to minimize impact of this Very Bad Idea and one person can NOT do it alone.

                  Also, job search. Sorry that you are in this position, OP, and I hope any future companies you work with appreciate how very dedicated you are. :(

              2. H.C.*

                I like the cascade list & recommendation (and appreciate the kind-of humor in #1 since I do work in healthcare)

              3. Samiratou*

                I would add “How much could/will the company lose if this doesn’t get done?” to the prioritization question, but it sounds like, from your response, Overworked, that that particular question might not be relevant.

    2. SarahKay*

      Can you update that list with how long each task takes? And if possible, get one of your colleagues to do the same so that you can show it’s not just you over-inflating the times.
      If you sent that back to your manager it might show just how impossible it will be to achieve everything in the single day.
      I’m sorry, you’re in a horrible situation and your company is definitely being unrealistic in its expectations.

    3. WG*

      Can you be more specific with your manager? Maybe provide the list of 35+ tasks noting that with only one person to handle what is normally done by 6 people, it will not be possible to do it all. Ask if the manager can prioritize those tasks for the day so that you know what order to work on things, understanding that it won’t all get done but that you want to put time toward the most important first.

    4. Anne of Green Gables*

      Can you ask for a prioritized list? It seems obvious that you won’t accomplish everything, and I think stating something like “I appreciate that *task* can be postponed, but that still leaves 30+ items that would normally be handled by 5 people. I’m only one person. I will get as much done as I can, obviously, but what tasks are the most essential, which are next, since the reality is that I will not accomplish everything.” Or similar wording that Alison frequently suggests.

      1. Overworked*

        Well, that was his version of a prioritized list. One thing is low priority and can be postponed, and everything else is top priority and absolutely must get done that day.

        1. Q*

          I think you need more than two categories here. Instead of juat “Can be postponed” and “Must be done” consider what you would normally do first thing. Put “Will blow up the building” stuff first, and then “Will set the entire left wing of the building on fire” next, etc.

        2. ThursdaysGeek*

          “absolutely must get done that day” – but the reality is, with only one person, that won’t happen. That’s not your fault nor your responsibility. Do what you can and do it well, and let the rest go. Let your boss know what you will be working on, and let him deal with the consequences. You’re stressing over someone else not doing their job: your boss by not allocating adequate resources.

    5. Artemesia*

      Give the boss the 35 tasks in priority order and indicate you will complete as many on the list as you can during the work day and the remainder will have to be done Tuesday.
      If he pushes back then perhaps escalate.

    6. Kristinemc*

      Everyone else has made good suggestions. You say that you can’t even stay late to finish everything – is it possible for you to stay late on Monday and take time off later in the week, since you will have more coverage then?

    7. Mr. Demeanor*

      I’m not trying to be snarky here-will any lives literally be lost if you”fail” to complete all the tasks that are supposed to be done during your 12 hour work shift on Christmas Day? Because that’s kind of the weight you seem to be putting on this. If no one is going to die, or at risk of dying, just plan to work the shift, making time to eat and use the bathroom, and getting done what you can. What isn’t done most likely will be caught up the next day or even the day after that. Your Manager, right or wrong, has given you an answer, move on from there and give yourself permission to stop stressing yourself out even more about it. If everything is going to crash and burn because all is not completed in one day (especially a day which is a Federal Holiday), your company has bigger problems than holiday staffing issues.

      1. KR*

        Yes – your management knows that the work requires more people than they are scheduling. As long as you make it clear (“Of course I won’t be able to do all 35 tasks, so I’m going to focus on these more critical tasks.”) the fault is on them and if they try to pin it on you, just remember your boss is unreasonable and remind them that you let them know exactly which work you would be focusing on.

      2. LCL*

        Mr Demeanor is right. If your work tasks are life threatening if not completed (I’m thinking hospital because you mentioned 12s but there are other professions with life threatening consequences if not completed) then go over your manager’s head. Otherwise, clock in, do your 12s including breaks, and go home at the end of the shift. Make your last task leaving an accurate list of tasks left undone.
        You said you are non exempt, so you can’t stay late. Is your company one of those that believes the earth will stop turning if they have to pay overtime? If that’s the case, that gives you the perfect justification to walk out at the end of your shift. Busting your ass to get everything done off the clock will only contribute further to the breakdown in your working conditions. Or in more modern language, that would normalize their bad behavior.

        1. Overworked*

          Yeah, my department is very cheap about overtime. They are pretending that they’re doing this to allow people to spend time with their families on Christmas, but I suspect that the real reason is because they don’t want to pay the 2.5x holiday pay for a second person. I know of at least two coworkers who would volunteer to work on Christmas for the extra pay, so I don’t buy management’s explanation that they’re trying to be family-friendly.

          As for the work itself, it’s highly unlikely that failing to do it would be life-threatening to anyone, but it is actually important — mainly, it is checking to make sure that there are no life-threatening problems, which normally there aren’t, but there’s a reason I’m required to check anyway.

      3. Overworked*

        This isn’t my actual job (for the sake of anonymity), but it’s of a similar nature: let’s say my job is inspecting airplanes before takeoff. If I don’t get the inspections done, it’s unlikely that anyone will actually die, since usually, everything on the inspection checks out fine, but there’s a reason the company is paying me to do these inspections — because it’s super important that if there’s actually a problem, I find it before takeoff. Plus, the FAA requires it, and even if there’s nothing wrong and the flights take off and land without a hitch, if I miss the inspection, we will be fined.

        1. Cristina in England*

          Maybe focus on the fines, noting that it is not possible to do all 35 inspections. You can do 18, but then 18x fines is probably a hell of a lot more than the overtime of one extra person.

        2. Caro in the UK*

          OK, in this case I think you really need to lay it on the line for your boss. Preferably with a paper trail, because as it currently stands, the work isn’t going to get done and you’re being set up to carry the can for it.

          I’d put together a email (which I’m sure someone can word far better than me!) explaining that what they are asking you to do is not physically possible. Outline what you expect WILL be able get done and list what you simply won’t have time to do. I’d probably be as specific as possible, e.g. “I am scheduled to complete 34 tasks, each of which takes one hour to complete, totalling 34 hours of work, in one 10 hour shift”.

          Then I’d list the consequences/fines etc. to the company for failing to complete those tasks which you won’t be able to complete. And then ask them “Given that it is not physically possible for this workload to be completed by one person in the time available, how would you like to proceed”. Don’t ask them what you should do. Ask them what THEY are going to do. Because this is their problem and they need to acknowledge that.

        3. Meh*

          If there is an actual safety issue then go to your boss and explain the consequences of things not getting done one more time (stressing that you as one person can NOT get it done) with an email for record and if he still blows you off, go above his head and explain that this is a safety issue that could lead to fines to his boss until you get to someone with some sanity. Good luck!

        4. As Close As Breakfast*

          Well, if it’s something like a regulated industry with an FAA-like governing body, would it maybe make sense to escalate this further than you have? Would this maybe be something that should be brought to HR? I mean, using your similar nature example, knowingly scheduling employees such that not all of the FAA required inspections can take place seems like it would be a pretty big effing deal. But having said that, it’s a big deal on your boss and their boss because they are making the staffing choice. Having email record of your concerns like has been suggested is great, but I’d almost want to take a further CYA approach to make sure the ‘big deal’ focus would be kept off of you not finishing the work and on them knowingly under staffing.

        5. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

          I would email your boss (paper trail!) and say something to the effect of:

          “I am concerned about the schedule for Christmas Day and the task list that has already started accruing. The company is being setup for failure and fines with the current staffing level for Christmas Day. Of the 35 tasks already listed for completion on that day, X will result in fines if not completed. I can complete Y of the X tasks. It is impossible for 1 person to complete all of X. Bearing in mind that the uncompleted tasks will result in fines, and that it is impossible for 1 person to complete all of the tasks (especially if more get added), how do you want to move forward?”

          1. All Hail Queen Sally*

            Yes, I like being sure to point out the detrimental effect to the company rather than making it personal.

        6. oranges & lemons*

          Is there anyone besides your boss you could ask who is more likely to be reasonable about this? Because it sounds like the boss is in denial and being intentionally unhelpful.

          If not, I would lay it all on the line for the boss very clearly and in writing: I have to do X checks. By myself, I will only be able to do Y, and probably not very thoroughly because the situation is so stressful. There is no possible way for one person to do everything in one day.

          Given the potential seriousness of the situation, if at all tenable, I would personally consider saying flat-out that I refuse to do it. I wouldn’t want to handle the guilt if something went wrong on my watch and caused a disaster.

          1. oranges & lemons*

            Meant to add, this situation seems serious enough to me that I would risk going way above the boss’s head if necessary. The potential consequences here seem much worse than wrecking your relationship with your boss. I’d think higher-ups would be very concerned to know that this is being planned, unless the whole organization is massively disfunctional.

        7. Natalie*

          because it’s super important that if there’s actually a problem, I find it before takeoff.

          So, continuing with your metaphor, in the case of an airplane if it wasn’t inspected it won’t be allowed to fly. So really, not getting all the inspections done won’t kill anyone, it will just make them late. Does something like that happen in your industry, or do they just trust that you do the inspections without bothering to verify?

      4. Cotton Balls*

        I agree. It seems totally unreasonable to expect 1 person to do the job of 5 and expect everything to be done. I know it’s easy for me (us) to say, but if I was Overworked(OP), I would do what I could and take a lunch break and bathroom breaks. If they complain, I would say I told you that all the tasks could not be done by a single person, I asked for another person to work (even for a half day) *and* asked for you to postpone some of the tasks and you refused. I am a single person. I can only do so much.

      5. Fuzzy pickles*

        Overworked might be stressing because the unspoken result of failing is a disciplining or firing. This is what happens with toxic environments. :/

        It’s… unfortunate because you’re right that things may simply not be done… or even more unfortunately, she needs to do illegal, unpaid overtime to get it done.

        Not letting it bother you when you accept reality and your bosses consider it a failure when you do what is possible according to the law of physics is the right answer but I know I wouldn’t feel any better.

        Sorry, Overworked, I’m no help at all in this case.

    8. Dzhymm*

      Super-snark mode here:

      You have nearly a month to find a new job. Start interviewing now. If you get an offer between now and Christmas, wait until Christmas morning then send your boss a cheery message: “Merry Christmas! I Quit!” THEN see how he manages to get those 34 absolutely-critical, someone-will-die, can’t-be-put-off tasks done.

      (I’m reminded of the worker who quit because her boss wouldn’t give her two hours off to attend her graduation; once she quit, how *was* he able to cover that oh so important shift that he couldn’t spare her for?)

    9. Not So NewReader*

      This is not a healthy company. To me it sounds like a failing company. How’s your job search going?

      Your boss seems pretty detached from what is going on.
      You sound like you are well position for making yourself sick over this.
      My suggestion is to push back in a different way.

      From what I read here you are able to give a pretty good guess as to how long each task will take. Take the 34 remaining tasks and give them an estimated time. Total up your estimates. Make sure you use estimates that factor in unforeseens or worst case scenario. Okay so let’s say it totals up to 18 hours of work.

      Logically, this is ridiculous. You are being set up to fail. You can’t do 18 hours of work in 8 hours. You can see the absurdity here. Next, let go of your worry. Your boss has a huge problem. She failed to get enough coverage to get the work done. This looks like, “Boss, TPTB are going to be upset that we did not have enough coverage and the work is incomplete.I know that I will not be able to complete 18 hours work in 8 hours. I know we do not want me doing the illegal thing of working off the clock. That is not an option.” Here you are starting to rope the boss in to the problem by showing how this will become a bigger problem later FOR HER.

      The next step in logic here is that your boss, The Salaried Person, needs to come in and work 10 hours. That would total up to the 18 hours necessary to complete the work. Of course, you can’t say that out loud. All you can do is say,”There is 10 hours worth of work that is not covered by anyone.”

      Point of Desperation. Worst case scenario nothing happens and there you are by yourself on Christmas. Look down the list like you are looking at fires. Pick the biggest fires and work on them. These are the tasks tied to people who scream the loudest and bring on the most misery. Get the screamers out of the way. Next do the tasks with the biggest dollar value, the idea here is to keep the money rolling in for the company. Probably by then it will be time to go home or past time to go home. If not, then start doing some of the short, quick tasks to make it look like you did a lot more work. When they ask why 21 tasks are not done, tell them you ran your butt off to do the 14 that were done.

      The real problem here is that you are on a sinking ship. Christmas is one day. The attitude the company has goes 365 days and that attitude is not a long term plan.

    10. Adlib*

      If everything is absolutely *critical*, how in the world does management justify ONE person working that day? For redundancy alone, two should at least be there. I mean, what if someone gets hit by a bus? Then what? This is a serious question because that’s how unreasonable management is being if people could die and/or go to jail.

    11. HappySnoopy*

      Since this is safety critical and or legal requirements, I’d create a realistic priority/accomplishment list for boss because it is physically impossible for you to do 48 hours of work in one day (1 person doing work of 6 people on 8 hours day). Maybe try to focus on a couple of complete systems if most expensive/dangerous things. If you can add the hours it takes/fine incurred others mention, even better.

      “I plan to complete a-g.
      If there is still time, I will do as much as I can of h-p.
      Q-z will not get done and have to be offline/delayed until there’s resources to do required compliance.
      If you want me to shift any alphabet letters, let me know what you want removed from a-g to make room.

      And I agree with others, see if you can find a new job. This is not your failure, it is management. Good luck!

    12. Tabby Baltimore*

      I hope you will let us know whether you developed a mitigation (i.e., prioritization) strategy per some of the suggestions, and who you approached to talk to about it. Having to talk to someone in authority about a situation like this is *SO* hard, especially if you haven’t had to do it before. Please check back in between now and 25 Dec to let us know how you’re doing in the run-up to this. We will support you, whatever approach you decide to take.

      1. Overworked*

        Thank you (and everyone else who replied)… I am really hoping that I will somehow be able to convince my manager to bring in a second person that day, which would still make for a busy day but be infinitely better than being expected to do it all when I know I can’t. What really annoys me about the situation is that on my last few performance reviews, there have been comments about how I “take on too much work” and “need to ask for help more.” Well, I take on too much work because my manager forces me into this kind of situation, and when I ask for help I don’t get any! (And I can’t prove it, but I have a feeling that this is a gender-specific comment because I don’t think they ever tell a man to “ask for help more.”)

    13. Nerak*

      Your boss sounds like a jerk. I’d call in sick at the last minute (fake a doctor’s note if you think he’ll ask for one) and when people complain, point out that you asked numerous times for someone else to work with you on that day and its your boss’s fault for not having coverage. He seemed to happy to let people have “time with their families” but threw you to wolves. Maybe he’ll have to come in and cover and then realize the impossible job he gave you.

  9. Maswaki*

    Hi Everyone,

    I have great news to share, I’ll try to keep it short and simple. Some background story here – I quit my job on August 11 with nothing lined up, the relationship with my boss became really strained after several episodes of what I felt was disrespectful treatment towards me and three coworkers. Do you recall the letter writer whose boss would text constantly then blow up? https://www.askamanager.org/2017/03/boss-texts-constantly-and-blows-up-if-i-dont-respond-immediately

    That letter writer’s situation was my nightmare as well until I quit, my boss did everything in that letter and more. In my case the boss cranked it up a notch or two by introducing an element of spiritual blackmail in her texts on the group. She would occasionally post bible passages/scriptures, asking the team to read, meditate on and pray along with said scriptures. She usually did this after an episode of condescending, rude and openly hostile chats/tantrums to either me or one of my co-workers.

    When I decided to leave I put in the required amount of notice in my resignation and used phrasing from AAM to keep the resignation brief and polite without going into details. My boss (the CEO/business owner) asked me to leave that same day and wrote things intended to hurt on my way out, some of what she wrote was true but most of it wasn’t. I lost it at that point and erupted like a volcano with all the resentment that had built up and was held in from her treatment. Prior to quitting, I was job searching without much success, I received 3 interview invitations but couldn’t make it to any of them because of work related travel.

    Now for my exciting news;
    Fast forward to September after I quit and got an e-copy of Alison’s book ‘How to Get a Job’ during the discount promo. I diligently read the book twice, highlighting portions that really struck a chord with me then putting into practice most of Alison’s advice.

    Between September 25 to November 30, I have been shortlisted for and invited to eight different job interviews. All thanks to you Alison, your book and all the great work you do on AAM. Heartfelt gratitude to the AAM community as well, for insightful/encouraging comments in the comments section.

    What makes me really excited about this is the fact that I live in Lagos, Nigeria (that’s West Africa) and Alison’s book/website, has proved to be extremely relevant in spite of the continent. Prior to getting Alison’s book an older friend of mine who does a bit of HR consulting argued with me, that the book wouldn’t be relevant to the Nigerian setting/environment.

    He was of the opinion that Alison’s blog/book would have significant relevance only in the United States where Alison is based (he checked out AAM after I raved about it) then proceeded to recommend an author from our country, whose work he thought would be more useful to me.

    That recommendation didn’t work well for me and I quickly told him, I’m buying Alison’s book regardless of what you say. I’m glad I did, because I’ve had uplifting results from just following about 60-80% of Alison’s advice and incorporating the wisdom of commenters into my job search.

    A quick summary on all 8 interviews below;
    1. For 2 interviews, I nicely requested a reschedule because I was out of town and couldn’t make it. I never heard back from the employers but I figured, hey if they can’t do you the courtesy of responding to your request with a yes or no, they are not the sort of employer you want to work with. After all you like to be treated with the same courtesy you extend to others, so bullet dodged there.
    2. On 2 other interviews, I politely self selected out of the hiring process when I realized a long commute of about 6 hours daily to and from work, would be involved when I factored in the distance and crazy traffic to be dealt with.
    3. With 1 other interview I also self selected out, because the pre-interview requirements didn’t sit well with me. The recruiter in this case wanted a bank statement, a utility bill to prove my residential address, a fee of $10 (which in my country’s currency is a significant sum of money you can put to good use) and other stuff before you even met with the employer. I thought this was crazy and didn’t bother to show. I have blacklisted that recruiter too.
    4. I’ve been to 2 out of 8 interviews, going as far as the final stage (a 3 stage interview in both cases) and I’m waiting to hear back from the employers.
    5. On the last interview, which held this Wednesday November 29, I was severely put off by the HR lady I decided on the spot I wasn’t going to move forward with her/her company. She seemed breezy and dismissive, acted like my presence was an interruption/distraction. Asked 2 questions only and actually said walk me through your resume I haven’t gone through it…………….I was like WTF??? I asked her you haven’t gone through my resume? While thinking, why invite me to an interview without taking the time to review my resume. The whole conversation lasted about 5 minutes, at the end she said this was just a chat to see if she will move me forward to next stage interviews. I thought to myself this is poor HR practice, a phone chat/interview to screen me, save me time and resources would have been ideal and more appropriate at this stage. Another employer blacklisted.

    I haven’t received any solid offers in writing yet, so I keep applying but from a place of confidence and the power of choice. There are not enough words that I can say to qualify how happy and thankful I am. Everyone makes AAM a fun and educative place to turn to. THANK YOU ALL

    Oh and by the way, I told my friend all things Alison (her book & blog) are indeed universally relevant, even on the Continent of Africa.

    1. Lily in NYC*

      It sounds to me like you are going to find something very soon! I’m glad you got out of your horrible work environment.

    2. Durham Rose*

      Hey best of luck to you! I first found Allison’s blog when I was living in Ethiopia, in general, it is relevant for wherever you are, and you can make cultural adjustments as needed.

    4. Jen RO*

      I think that most of us non-Americans reading the blog can attest to the fact that the core of the advice is universally applicable! Outside of some specific things about employment law and resume writing, Alison’s writing is entirely true in this corner of Eastern Europe.

    6. Femme d'Afrique*

      Hey sister! ;)

      And I agree with you: with a few minor adjustments, Alison’s advice translates very well, regardless of where one is located. This blog has been tremendously helpful and has made me look at hiring/interviewing and everything else from a whole new perspective. Glad I found it!

      1. Maswaki*

        Awww…….I appreciate the good wishes from all of you. @ Femme d’Afrique hey right back at you too, sister. You rightly assumed I was female. Did I give that away in my comment?

        1. Femme d'Afrique*

          You know what? I just re-read your post and no, you didn’t give it away. I guess I… guessed. Oops. Glad I was right though!

  10. Ask a Manager* Post author

    Just a reminder that if you had a letter answered here this year (meaning in a post, not in an open thread), please send me your update — ideally this weekend. December is going to be full of updates!

    (In fact, I have so many that *most* posts in December might be updates. I might just do the daily short-answer posts and fill all the other slots with updates, unless a chorus of people tell me you’d hate that.)

      1. Caledonia*

        I hate that too. Maybe a good compromise would be replacing posts with updates the week before Christmas /post Christmas?

    11. Cristina in England*

      I love updates (LOVE them) but I feel bad that people might not be getting their questions answered. Unless there is a downturn in questions at this time of year?

    12. Fact & Fiction*

      I’m fine with this, too. Love updates and short answers the most anyway, personally, and feel like Alison deserves to take it a little light that month if she has plenty update content to use anyway.

        2. Fact & Fiction*

          You certainly deserve it! I don’t comment as much as some of your regulars — but am trying to do more these days to contribute — but I’ve been a huge AAM fan for years and have learned so much from this site. Being a writer and content producer myself, I know how draining it can sometimes be and we all need creative recharges from time to time!

          Shoot…I have the opposite problem myself now. My fiction career has tanked so much while my content writing career has excelled that I’m struggling to get things going with even wanting to write novels again!

          Anyway, glad you treat yourself to a light December!!!

        4. Prudencep*

          I love updates and, like so many recommendations we see on this site, you need to do what’s right for you too! I can’t imagine how much time you put into this site, so whatever can give you a bit of a break sounds great!

    13. All Hail Queen Sally*

      I LOVE hearing the updates. I always wonder how things worked out for the letter writers.

      1. Broadcastlady*

        The updates are what hooked me on AAM. I read the entire update topic section. Yeah, I’m a nerd. Updates please!

  11. selina kyle*

    Running the dishwasher is the responsibility of a few of us at the end of the day. One of my coworkers will often just leave it without running it when she’s the last one in the office/the one locking up. The problem is, she shuts the dishwasher all the way so in the morning, it looks like it has run. A few of the dishes are clean enough (from being rinsed out, etc) that at least twice I’ve started to put things away before I noticed and had to put everything back in the dishwasher. Not only is it gross but then the next night, it’s almost always bordering on too full.
    The coworker is wonderful otherwise and it doesn’t happen often enough to make a huge deal but it really grinds my gears.
    (This morning I had put away about five glasses before I realized and so I’m a little peevish!)

      1. selina kyle*

        I’ve only been here since September and she’s senior to me so I haven’t been totally sure how to approach it. It’s also not on a regular enough basis that I think of it until it happens again.
        I would be willing to say something if you had any tips!

        1. Laura*

          Oh man, I’d be the worst and talking to someone about this kind of stuff! Are you friendly with her? If you’re the kind of person who can breezily say “Jane, can you put on the dishwasher when you’re the last one out? Thanks!” I’d go for that.

          Oh, if she’s the only other person in the office when you leave, you can casually remind her to put on the dishwasher when she goes.

          Strange that she closes it and doesn’t put it on. Maybe she doesn’t realize what the system is?

    2. Murphy*

      Do you have one of those dirty/clean indicators on the dishwasher? They don’t work if you forget to flip them, but it should tell you if it definitely hasn’t been run.

      1. selina kyle*

        We have a magnet, but in the few months I’ve been here, it has always been on its side between the two options – a Schrodinger’s magnet honestly.

        1. RabbitRabbit*

          Maybe get one that has to be physically flipped over, dirty on one side and clean on the other?

          1. selina kyle*

            I just don’t think anyone would use it (aside from me, and even then I can’t guarantee I’d remember!) if they’re not already using the one we have.

            1. zora*

              But if she doesn’t use it, then it will actually work. So, you empty the dishwasher in the morning and flip it to “Dirty”.
              If she leaves without flipping it, it will still be on “Dirty” when you get in, right?
              And then you can run it.

              I think it would work if you use the sign as intended!

        2. Jerry Vandesic*

          If in doubt, run the dishwasher. In the morning, if the dishwasher is full and indicator is not clearly CLEAN, then run the dishwasher without even looking at the dishes.

    3. Artemesia*

      This is one where you are simply going to have to check carefully for clean/dirty before putting dishes away. check carefully and then run it if it hasn’t been run. Stupid, but it is the way to avoid unnecessary issues with a senior person. Not worth wasting an ounce of ‘chips’ on.

      1. selina kyle*

        That’s what I was thinking and it’s nice to have some vindication :)
        It’s frustrating but honestly getting a chance to whine about it here has helped!

      2. Idwafn*

        I agree, if you run it first thing in the morning it could start the discussion about why it’s running in the morning instead of the normal evening schedule.

    4. Sualah*

      I agree I wouldn’t waste “chips” on this, but one thing I might try is:
      1) Stealthily remove the old magnet that no one uses
      2) Stealthily replace it with a more obvious “Clean/Dirty” one, maybe a week later
      3) ONLY IF IT CAN BE DONE CASUALLY, mention that “Oh, look, there’s a new one, that’s so handy!” Not passive-aggressively, not like it’s a new wonder of the world, just like, “Oh, there’s a new coffeepot!” sort of tone.

    5. LCL*

      For home, I bought a thing called a dishwinkle. It’s a little plastic test tube with a clip. Clip it anywhere in the dishwasher it will fit and be seen. When the dishwasher runs, it fills with water. When anyone opens the dishwasher they can see instantly if the dishwasher has been run or not. When the dishwasher is emptied, empty the dishwinkle and put it back in the dishwasher. It takes longer to explain than to put in use.

      This system works for us because the update is done by the process of washing the dishes, it doesn’t require any intervention to flip a magnet sign or leave the door open or leave a note or whatever.

    6. Full Cup*

      My mom has a great trick for knowing if the dishes are clean or dirty. Always keep 1 mug right side up in the dishwasher. It just lives in the dishwasher. In the morning, if the mug is full of water then you know the dishes are clean. After putting the dishes away then empty the mug of water and put the mug back in the dishwasher. Now everyone knows the dishes are dirty. Everyone does need to remember to empty the mug of water when they put the dishes away, but this always seemed to work much better at my house growing up than the magnet on the outside.

      1. selina kyle*

        That is actually really clever. Cabinet space is an issue already so that would be a help thank you so much!

    7. Dawn*

      Why not just skip her entirely? If everyone knows she won’t turn it on, then the last person besides her turns it on. It sounds like it’s loaded throughout the day, so everyone just acts like she’s not even part of the equation. If it’s a noise issue for her then tough, it needs to be done and she won’t do it, so she can deal with it being on while she works.

      1. selina kyle*

        She runs it some of the time just not always – plus there’s a few higher ups who stay a bit after (while she’s still here) and we try to run it with all the dishes so no one has to handwash. Otherwise that’d work!

    8. Yorick*

      I think you could discuss it in a way that makes it about you, especially to ask people to use the magnet properly (this might also help remind her to run the dishwasher before she leaves): “I have a hard time telling if the dishes are dirty or clean, can we all be more vigilant about turning the magnet over after running the dishwasher at night?”

    9. All Hail Queen Sally*

      This was my job at a past office. I would run the dishwasher before I left then the late shift would put their dirty dishes in with all the clean ones. Then I would be accused of forgetting to run the dishwasher, when I knew I had. Grrrrrrr!

    10. Erin*

      I am the dishwasher at my office! The 2 other girls I work with somehow don’t know how to fill a sink & clean their own dishes.

      1. Artemesia*

        I would let every dish in the place stack up and keep a mug at my desk before I would do that. ARen’t you furious?

      2. Bleeborp*

        I am truly confused by people who use the work dishwasher or leave their dishes in the break room- I have dishes, I rinse them off and reuse them and eventually wash them at home as needed. I also happen to think that this kind of domestic stuff doesn’t belong at work- it creates a situation where a few people are washing everyone’s dishes and exerting whatever mental energy and physical energy that is required to maintain the system.

    11. oranges & lemons*

      Is it possible to set the dishwasher to run once everyone’s left? Mine has a delay function.

    12. Old Jules*

      My ex-boss use to write a post it note and post it on the dishwasher when she runs it so people knew when it last occurred. Mostly because the dishwasher has no external indicator that it’s running.

    13. sheworkshardforthemoney*

      Interesting problem. I’m having something similar with a newer co-worker. (She was here before but was just re-hired because of an increased workload.) When she leaves for the day she turns everything off even though she knows I need to use all the equipment for my shift. I didn’t realize this until I needed something in a rush and had to wait for the systems to get up to speed. It’s not accidental, it has happened every single day that I followed her shift. Now as soon as I come into work the first thing I do is set everything up again. It’s seems minor but it’s very irritating.

      1. HappySnoopy*

        Maybe she used to work a last shift or when things were slower or in a different role and thinks that’s [still] the protocol?

        It may be worth saying something to her or ask boss for general reminder that equipment should be remain powered on until end of teapot making third shift and turned back on at first teapot shift.

  12. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

    How is it December already? I am baffled. On the one hand, I could swear it was just Halloween yesterday. On the other hand, we’ve been in RMD/tax season for 6 weeks and it feels like it’s been forever. My sense of time is destroyed.

    2. WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot*

      RMD season can give me such anxiety! Always worried there will be one client we forget!

    3. Athena*

      Re: “December already” – my brain, apparently in horror at how fast the year has gone, kept tripping me up yesterday with “it’s definitely June 2014” “brain, it really isn’t” “WELL IT SURE CAN’T BE DECEMBER 2017, THAT IS MADNESS”

  13. One of Santa’s elves*

    My company has a holiday shutdown where we close for the days between Christmas and the New Year; employees are required to use their PTO for these days. My department requires coverage (2-3 people) for the shutdown. Usually we have volunteers and no one is forced to come in when they would rather be off. Whoever works during that time will not need to use their PTO (of course.)

    Am I wrong in thinking there should be a greater reward for the employees who work during the shutdown? Time and a half, double time, or comp time?

    Before anyone says I have a sense of entitlement, I’m not working during the shutdown. I just think my coworkers should be rewarded for their effort.

    1. selina kyle*

      I’m torn because in a way they get to save their PTO, but those are also crappy days to work. I do think extra pay or maybe provided lunch would make it a little more palatable.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I mean, throwing lunch at three people for a week isn’t going to break the company’s back and would buy a lot of goodwill. I’d do that, if I were the manager.

      But I actually don’t think folks need extra compensation for that week. Everyone else is forced to use their PTO — even if they’d prefer to use it another week — so your colleagues are just… not using PTO.

      1. Lala*

        Lunch provided would be a really nice way to show that volunteering to work those days to provide coverage is appreciated. It’s the sort of thing I don’t think anyone would begrudge, and it should be easy enough to do.

    3. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

      Does local law say something about compensation? As my first job included working with people living abroad I was required to work all my holidays (Christmas Eve and New Years Eve too), so I was compensated with double pay for those days.

      1. Ella*

        Same. Unless the company is like, “You have to use your PTO for this, and we realize that that sucks, so we give you four weeks of PTO per year to try and balance things out.” But something tells me that they probably don’t do that.

    5. CAA*

      Do they get the actual holidays off, or do they have to work on Christmas and New Year’s Day? If they are just choosing to work from the 26th to the 29th of December, then I don’t think they should get anything extra. A lot of people want to work those days, because it’s so quiet and you can be so much more productive. If they are having to work on the two actual holidays, then I’d be more inclined to do something, but what to do depends on whether they’re exempt or not — an extra day of PTO of exempt, double-time if non-exempt. Also, if you’re having trouble getting volunteers, then that would be another reason to throw in a sweetener like an extra day of PTO.

      Of course they should never be put in a position where they’d lose their PTO, so if your company has a “use it or lose it” policy, then the ones who are volunteering to work the last week of the year should get priority on their requests to use their days earlier in the year, or else they should be allowed to carry them over to next year.

    6. CheeryO*

      I think getting to save the PTO is reward enough. I assume they’re pretty slow, easy days, since you have people actively volunteering to come in. I know I’d rather come in and work between Christmas and New Year’s and save my PTO for another time of year.

    7. Goya*

      I think a little extra pay would not be amiss…especially if you have a hard time finding volunteers. If there are several people who volunteer regularly though, it may be worth it enough to use the PTO days when they have stuff planned instead of now.

    8. Jake*

      I’d fight to work! Forcing me to take pto when my friends will be busy with family or working would feel very unfair and more like a punishment than anything else since i now can’t use those days when they’d be useful for me.

      I think there are enough folks in my situation that you don’t need to create any additional incentive.

    9. CanadianHR*

      We are shutting down our manufacturing facility from December 25th – 29th year, but a few people will have to work. We are giving them gift cards to thank them.

    10. Bacon Pancakes*

      Please tell me that no one is actually working on Christmas Day!!?? That person deserves at least double time.

    11. EasilyAmused*

      I worked in the movie industry at a well known company that had the policy to give everyone that week off fully paid but “subject to production needs”. Well, the show I was working on decided everyone had to work that week while the others in production gave their artists the time off. So those of us who had to work were being paid exactly the same as those who had the week off (actually, probably more since I was chronically underpaid during that career but that’s another subject). I was furious.

      I think as long as people are being paid fairly, it’s ok though, as someone else suggested, buying lunch for the people working would be a nice gesture.

  14. I'm A Little TeaPot*

    This week has been a rollercoaster. I’ve posted before about looking for a new job, and I found one and got through background, etc.

    Cliff notes of the issues with current job: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn’t intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn’t do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it’s the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it’s toxic to me. While I like her as a person, as a manager she’s a disaster for me.

    Monday this week I gave notice at work. It was exhausting and somewhat emotional. (The smoke detector deciding to start chirping at 1am about low battery didn’t help with any of it.) I was honest about why I was leaving, and it seems some of the strain I’ve been under this year showed, which surprised me

    I’ve been assured by both my manager’s boss and grandboss (various flavors of director) that they will be doing coaching and other things to address the problems. The grand boss told me that he’d been planning to move around the manager assignments so it wasn’t so siloed, as well as moving some managerial tasks around to rebalance workloads. All of which is great and should really help next year, but I didn’t think it would be enough, fast enough, to fix me. He also told me that he would wait to start anything until after my last day “to avoid causing me any more stress”. Holy crap, what a day for my poker face to take a vacation! This guy is gruff, blunt, and bad with people’s emotions. I think I made an impression, and I really didn’t mean to.

    They didn’t really push to try to get me to stay, which is not the MO for them. I was told very specifically that if I ever want to return, I just have to say the word. It’s one thing for your employee to tell you that they’re getting more money or a promotion, and quite different for them to say they’re leaving because they feel un-trusted and incompetent due to the mgmt style on a near daily basis and are going to the exact same job but somewhere else. Especially when it’s one of your high performers who has performed very well under high pressure on multiple occasions. I got promoted earlier this year, and another director who I work with (but not in my reporting line) hinted that I had been on the promotion list for 2018. (For context, it usually takes 2-3 years to go between these levels.) So clearly, they think I’m good. What a pity my manager had to convey the opposite impression.

    The VP found out I resigned during a regular meeting of senior leadership, he is not happy. After all, he’s got a team of 12 losing 2 experienced staff in the space of 2 weeks (my coworker’s last day was yesterday, he’s just as good as I am though we have different strengths). This puts a major project in jeopardy, plus various other things I do.

    Tuesday, after a good night’s sleep (with no smoke detector chirping!), I talked to my manager and it went really well. I like her personally, it’s just the work stuff that is such a problem. We’re focusing on transitioning my work and me wrapping up what I can. I’ve got fingers in a lot of pies, so it’ll be complex even transitioning.

    Over lunch on Tuesday, the email went out that I was leaving. This is where it gets weird. The entire department is pissed I’m leaving. Like, staff, managers, directors, VP, everyone. Top to bottom, bottom to top. People from different states, other teams. All of them. I had all but one of the directors pull me into their office to try to get me to stay, the last one wasn’t in the office. Multiple managers/directors offered to put me on their teams. The manager I really like told me she feels bad she didn’t realize how bad it was (she’s in another state, and I haven’t really worked with her all year, why should she know?). I overheard a conversation between 2 mgrs about how they’re going to tell the business areas (I’m in internal audit), I wasn’t supposed to hear that one! Apparently half the damn company loves me, even the people I’ve been giving findings to left, right and center. The 2 directors on my team were out of town until Thursday for a conference.

    Very interestingly, everyone NOT in my department and all the staff level people with more than a year or 2 of experience seems to know WHY I’m leaving, without me saying anything. I just keep saying I need a change, and they’re like, “is it her?”

    And this is where I went off the rails.

    Tuesday night after I got home, I started getting really upset. In retrospect, I think I had a minor panic attack, hyperventilated some, and generally had a breakdown. With no one around, or having a clue what was happening. I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn’t care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn’t. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone’s reaction to my leaving, that they really didn’t get it (willful blindness?), and I couldn’t process that contradiction. Tuesday night I got 2 hours sleep, then got up for work on Wednesday. I take a train to work, and I spent the whole train ride in crying.

    Clearly, when you’re crying and can’t stop, you should not go to work. Instead, in my very unstable state, I texted the manager that I like at work (used to report to her). She of course was im’ing the director, because I really am a high performer and if there’s a chance I’m going to change my mind and stay, they’re good with that. Remember, I’m crying uncontrollably on the train (that is my only excuse, I was NOT rational, I texted my sister too and don’t remember that). Once the train got in, I hid in the bathroom at the train station for a bit, then got the actually good idea to text a friend in a different department. There’s an underground route from the station to the building, so I got in the basement without really being seen. My friend met me downstairs in a secluded corner.

    Friend didn’t expect that I’d be in that state, but she really rose to the occasion. She got me calmed down, so instead of crying uncontrollably I was just a little teary. Much more manageable in public! Friend helped me text in that I was taking the day off, and looked up the train schedule for me. Basically, she took my phone, deleted what I’d written, wrote something much better and sent it, then grabbed the train schedule from me because I was really not functional. Then she told me to go home, eat something, and go to bed. Which I did, amazingly. When I woke up, my sister picked up the thread of helping put me back together (once she figured out what was going on), then sent me back to bed again.

    By Thursday I had recovered somewhat. Was still a little short of sleep, but I was calm. However, it really was a fragile calm, and some people that know me fairly well were able to guess something was wrong. But I held it together. Since I’d texted a member of management, I had to deal with that. Texted the manager again, basically “sorry, I didn’t handle a short night well at all. much better now after sleep.” And had to talk to the director (again!), reaffirming that yes, I’m leaving. Because if this job made me have a mental breakdown, I really need to leave. Believe me, I didn’t need that stress. But I managed ok.

    At this point, I’m being very careful to take care of myself. For whatever reason, I had a ton of stress crash down on me all at once causing me to completely lose it, and that has never happened before. I’m trying to make sure that I get enough sleep and eat enough (not easy, I lose my appetite when I’m highly stressed).

    One more week. I can manage that. Then I have a week off before the new job starts.

    1. RabbitRabbit*

      Sounds like you’ve definitely made the right decision in leaving. Best of luck, and be gentle with yourself.

    2. StrikingFalcon*

      Oof that’s rough. Panic attacks are the worst, especially when you’re not familiar enough with them to recognize what they when they first start. I’m glad you have a week off before you start the next job!

    4. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      Yeah, it’s been rough. I’m still quite fragile, and it’d be easy to push me completely off balance. I’m hanging in there though.

    5. Fact & Fiction*

      Oh dear. I feel for you! I had a near breakdown at a previous job and spent 24 hours unable to sleep or shut my panicked brain down. So glad I got out of that job. This is the right thing for you, it sounds like. Be gentle with yourself!

      I’m so glad your work friend and sister took such excellent care of you.

    6. Not a Morning Person*

      Another thought along with well wishes for you in your new organization!
      One of the recurring themes on AAM is that as long as an employee is doing the job and doing it well, managers don’t rock the boat. They just really don’t think about their employees in that way and assume that as long as the work is getting done and there’s no big drama, then they have other important things to attend to. Grand-bosses rarely see how the managers below them actually manage. They only see the results. And if you have been able to use your poker face, then you’ve been managing, maybe hanging on by a thread, but managing enough that the people who could have done something were not as aware of how difficult your situation was for you. And the longer those people have worked with your manager, the more they see her behavior as normal. The newer people see her more accurately as dysfunctional because they haven’t been around long enough to become jaded by her behavior.
      Perhaps some of your emotion is also coming from grief. Even though you know it is the right thing to do, it’s a change and you are wishing that things could have been different. You were/are respected by others at that organization, but until you were actually leaving, no one spoke up to say how much they valued you and your work. That won’t make up for your manager’s behavior and treatment of you. You need to get away and start fresh.
      And, of course, your lack of sleep made everything exponentially harder. Be gentle with yourself. And go and approach your new job with enthusiasm. It will work out!

      1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

        There’s a lot of truth here. I don’t REALLY want to leave, I have to. It’s best for me right now. I can’t come back from this, especially not after this week. And my leaving is truly going to hurt my coworkers, at least in the short term. I’m not worried about mgmt, they deserve some pain because they didn’t pay attention. But I am feeling guilty about my coworkers.

        I don’t think they realize yet how much they rely on me for certain things.

    7. Anon for this*

      You might consider visiting your doctor while you’re off, just to say that this happened and ask if it is appropriate to have a prescription for ativan or xanax if a panic attack ever happens again.

      Been there.

    8. MissDisplaced*

      Sometimes it’s like that when you don’t really *want to leave* but feel you have to leave a place you otherwise like due to poor management of other things. You can only stick it out for so long. Give yourself a break, and please TAKE SOME TIME OFF in-between your next job to decompress.

      1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

        I’ve got a week between jobs. And that’s exactly what it is. I don’t want to leave, I have to. This management style is really hurting me, and it’s one person.

    9. Windchime*

      The description of your breakdown nearly made me cry. That’s how I felt near the end of my employment with my old job. I couldn’t think, I couldn’t sleep, all I could do is cry and cry and cry. Like you, I had a sister to help take care of me until I could pull myself together.

      You are doing the right thing to leave. My job was similar in that they also didn’t care until I left, and only then was something done to correct the problem with the terrible manager.

      Take care. There are jobs with kind, caring, and sane management teams out there and I hope that you will have better luck with the next one.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      Oh god, so very sorry.

      I had one job where I got sick in the process of leaving it also. I had a 9 week long migraine after I left. Nothing I took helped the headache. I finally decided that it was because of my thinking and emotions. I landed on the idea that I let the job mean too much to me. I was more invested in the job than my employer was invested in me. The headache dissipated as I moved on to the next thing in my life.
      This may or may not describe what you saw in your own setting, however my overall point is that in the near future you will feel a bit calmer than you have been. Use that calmer time to figure out what you would do differently going forward. I decided that I was too attached to the job and the place and I needed to watch that, not let it become a habit. The other thing I decided was that I needed to insist on more from employers and learn to insist/ask in appropriate ways. I would not give and give and give and allow myself to get totally drained.

      I hope your next place is a good one and a very different experience for you.

  15. Yep... it's me again*

    Does anyone have any suggestions for journals/ planners that are good for goal setting in both a personal AND professional capacity? I am trying to work on some self-development project for next year and would like something that functions as a step by step guide.

    1. Goya*

      I don’t know if this will work for you, but I’m a big fan of Microsoft OneNote. It’s not really a “planner” but allows a lot of self creation to set things up how you’d like. It has app and computer access, so I can use it on the my phone or when I’m at my desk. I have several “notebooks” created for different aspects of my life and find it super easy to organize my thoughts with.

    2. Rainy*

      I use a PassionPlanner and I think it’s great. There’s a bunch of goal mapping stuff in it, but on every week-by-week page there’s a spot for a professional and a personal checklist that I find EXTREMELY helpful.

      2. Montresaur*

        Whoa, thank you for Passion Planner. I had no idea this existed, and had been jerry-rigging something similar in a standard notebook. Fun, but a little inefficient for me. Shopping now!

    3. Curious Cat*

      Panda Planners are really quite incredible! A little bit pricey (in the $30 range), but very detailed and great for prioritizing. Have you also every considered creating a bullet journal? You can spend hours going down the bullet journal rabbit hole on Pinterest, but the beauty is getting to create a journal totally from scratch just the way you like it. They’re a little time consuming, but if you have the time available, definitely recommend!

    5. galfromaway*

      Bullet journal.
      http://bulletjournal.com/
      You can set it up as you like, with whatever sections/functions you like. There are lots of FB groups you can look to for guidance and advice, and tons of stuff on Pinterest. Just don’t let all the info and ideas overwhelm you. A good friend of mine does one for personal, and one for professional, while others combine the two.

  16. Matilda Jefferies*

    I’m going to move the ADHD discussion over here from the other thread – if I remember correctly, there are quite a few people here who have it!

    I got a formal diagnosis and medication in September, and the meds have made a HUGE difference in my life. Particularly when it comes to work – now I can actually sit down at my desk, plan out my day, and do it! It’s really incredible how much I have been able to get done in the past three months, compared to the past three years at this job. I haven’t disclosed the diagnosis to my manager or colleague, but I’m hoping that they’ll see the difference in my increased productivity and attention to detail.

    Favourite resources, which I also mentioned in the other thread: ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life by Judith Kolberg and Kathleen Nadeau, and Better Than Before by Gretchen Rubin.

    How’s everyone else doing? Managing, or not managing your ADD at work? What’s the best thing you have learned, or the thing you most want to learn?

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Out of curiosity, how much trouble has getting the meds consistently been for you? My understanding is that most (if not all) ADHD meds are schedule 2, with really strict controls on how they’re dispensed. Has that been complicated?

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        I’m in Canada, so it might be different here. But I’ve had no trouble at all. Both my GP and my specialist have been able to write the script, and I’ve just walked into the pharmacy and filled it. I think there was some sort of warning that the pharmacy might need to see ID, but they have never actually asked for it (possibly because it’s the same pharmacy I use all the time?)

      2. Judy (since 2010)*

        My son was on ADHD medications for a while. We had to have a paper script from his specialist. They would mail it for $2, but my retired mother in law lives pretty close to the doctor’s office and would drop it at the pharmacy for us. Always had to be a paper copy, no electronic or call in, no refills. Luckily our office had an internet portal, so I could request it in the evening. We needed at least 24 hour notice for the script, which had to be picked up between 9 & 4.

        When the medicine was picked up at the pharmacy, you had to show a driver’s license, but it was ok for anyone to pick it up, they just wanted records.

        Certainly not as easy as refilling my asthma medicines, but we made it work. I’m glad we are done with it, though.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Can I ask a related question on this?
      I’ve suspected for a while that I may have adult ADD, but it has seemingly been getting worse in the last 12 months or so. Is that…a thing? Is it variable like that?

      And, how would I go about getting a diagnosis? Do I start by talking to my normal doctor, or would I need to see a therapist? I feel overwhelmed just thinking about, and it’s contributing to a serious case of inertia (i.e. I’m having trouble even starting the process). The research fatigue is real :/

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        Probably! I’m no expert (really, really not an expert – please talk to your doctor!), but I can say that mine definitely gets worse when I have other stressors going on in my life. Work, family, whatever – if all I were doing were sitting on a beach in Jamaica, I’m sure my ADD wouldn’t be a problem at all!

        And I totally get the “inertia leads to more problems leads to more inertia” cycle. It took me years to get to this point. My therapist was the one who first suggested the possibility, but she can’t make a diagnosis, so I had to go to my regular doctor and get a referral. I would do the same in your case – start by talking to your GP, and see where it takes you. Good luck. <3

      2. NLMC*

        I was diagnosed and started taking meds when I was 27 or 28. I started the convo with my primary care and he required me to see a counselor prior to giving me meds. It was life changing especially at work.
        I quite taking them when I was trying to get pregnant and never picked them back up once I quit breast feeding. I really miss them, but my dr always made me feel a bad about taking them as an adult. He continually said things like, well we don’t normally medicate adults and made me feel like I was just trying to pop pills. I honestly would rather not take them but they helped so much. I’m pregnant again and will hopefully get the nerve to ask again once I’m done BFing this child.

        1. Jules the Third*

          Please do – you deserve to function at your best.

          A close friend of mine is struggling with getting a prescription. She’s had one for several years, and now that she’s off, it’s a huge difference and not in a good way.

        2. The Ginger Ginger*

          Also – maybe find a different doctor? Because life is too short and health is too important to be seeing a doctor who a) belittles you b) discounts your account of your own systems and c) thinks adults don’t need add meds? That is absolutely a normal thing! It’s one thing if you don’t want to take them and ask for strategies to make that possible, but to dismiss your stated need like that? Rude doctor is rude. You shouldn’t have to nerve up to ask your own doctor to give you legitimate and needed medical treatment.

      3. Recently Diagnosed*

        Hi The Ginger Ginger. I just recently was diagnosed with adult ADD and have gotten medicine that helps tremendously. I was already seeing a therapist, who screened me and told me to approach my family doctor. The doctor didn’t even need the evaluation my therapist sent over. He asked me a few questions, felt out my situation, and I had the medicine that day. My husband had a harder time. He suffers from several different mental illnesses and due to this, he had to have a full diagnostic screening, which took longer to complete. However, both of us have had consistently easy times since the initial diagnosis staying treated.

    3. Lynca*

      Not managing my ADHD well at all. I was diagnosed as a child. I don’t take meds but I’m getting to the point that once I’m through my pregnancy, I need to talk to my doctor about it if it doesn’t improve. I’m usually pretty on top of things but I struggling more now with feeling overwhelmed by basic tasks, then when I was a kid. Not sure how much of it is pregnancy related so I’m letting discussions of it go until later so I can better assess it.

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        Oh, wow – it’s like a perfect storm of things working to take away your executive function and focus. I hope things get better once the baby is born! When are you due?

        1. Lynca*

          I didn’t mention it but the conference we have been planning has been a default second unpaid job on top of our actual jobs and I hope that’s more of the source of the problem. Which should be over in a week. So that’s why I want to take a wait and see approach. It may get much better in 2 weeks. I’m hoping that is the case.

          The baby is due in June. And work is just so happy and supportive about it.

      2. peachie*

        Meds aren’t for everyone, of course, but I do think you should consider them. This is just my experience, but I could not get my life in order AT ALL, despite nearly constant effort, until I started taking medication regularly about a year or two ago.

    4. peachie*

      Oh boy, ADHD in an office environment is a doozy.

      I have so many thoughts about this, but one of the most important is identify your sources of guilt and anxiety, and plan ways to prevent them. Anecdotally, this is a big thing with ADHD folks–something goes wrong or gets missed because we’re disorganized and forgetful, and this turns into a horrible guilt spiral where the thing never gets done because doing the thing will remind other people that you haven’t done the thing yet. (Just me?)

      Some examples:
      I felt a lot of guilt about not answering emails on time and constantly having voicemail to check, so I established a “no email in the box” rule for the end of the day.

      I frequently missed deadlines for recurring but irregular (ex, not on the same day) projects, so I set up a double reminder system to keep that from happening. (One of the reminders I use the most is the Outlook “delay delivery” function–if something needs action but not right now, I immediately forward it to myself and set it to be delivered the day it needs to be done at a time when I’ll be at my desk.

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        the thing never gets done because doing the thing will remind other people that you haven’t done the thing yet. (Just me?)

        Woah, you just described like half of my working life. Definitely not just you!

    5. Polaris*

      I’m getting tested for ADHD in January. I have anxiety and depression, as well, so I’m worried that even if diagnosed I won’t be able to take medication to improve it – they often don’t play well together. But I’d like to know if my various attention/memory issues have some root cause behind them.

      1. peachie*

        Necessary caveat that I’m only speaking from personal experience, but I have been able to take both in all sorts of combinations and have been taking pretty high doses of both for about two years. It’s worth looking into! Honestly, in a lot of ways, the ADHD meds helped me manage my depression much better than the antidepressants did.

      2. Recently Diagnosed*

        Hi Polaris. My husband suffers from severe depression and anxiety, both social and general. He was placed on Ritalin for his ADHD, and it has helped literally every aspect of his mental health. With his focus improved, he has fewer triggers for his anxiety and depression. The medication CAN interact poorly, but please know that this is not a guarantee and, like all medication, may take a little tinkering with types and dosages, which you’ll know if you are on medication for depression already. Good luck, and improvement is on the horizon!!

        1. JaneB*

          I’m in the UK and both my GP and the therapist I see privately for my anxiety & depression say that adult ADD doesn’t exist.

          From reading here & researching further, I’m about 95% sure I have it – and it co- occurs with high anxiety. So I don’t know what to do now (although I am reading the recommended books…)

          1. thecheapshot*

            I don’t know if you’re getting notifications from comments but just in case – UK adult here going through the process of getting diagnosed with ADHD very much right now and I don’t have a childhood diagnosis.

            You need your GP to refer you to the secondary mental health team in your area. They will have ADHD specialists who can evaluate you. It’s super difficult because of mental health funding being slashed – your GP is likely to not want to refer you because of the money so you have to be either lucky like me to get a GP whose pet interest is adult ADHD or go private. I’m also a bit ahead of the game as I have a current misdiagnosis which although wrong, does get me a referral quickly when I need one.

            Biggest tip I can give you (if you can’t afford to go private or can’t change NHS GP) is melt down in your GP’s office. Not pretty and not dignified but mental health funding in the UK at the moment is in such a state that unless you present psychotic or suicidal or on the edge of a nervous breakdown, they’re going to give you SSRIs, 6 weeks of DBT and a pat on the head. Anything approaching high functioning is basically ignored.

            Write down a big list of why you think you have it, read that list out through tears and basically refuse to leave until they refer you. Say you can’t cope, that it’s affecting work and relationships. It’s horrible and tough and if you’re anything like me, you’re going to feel like you’re making a massive fuss over nothing and you’re a fraud but you are not – you have legitimate concerns and deserve to live a complete life free of symptoms.

            Good luck!

            1. Wanna-Alp*

              Alternative: try a different GP at your practice. See if a different one will help you. My (UK) GP does believe it exists, although he did mention it was difficult to get referrals/diagnosis for.

      3. Matilda Jefferies*

        Yep, thirded. My doctor said that lots of people can actually go off their antidepressants altogether, once the ADHD is under control. I’ve been on antidepressants for a couple of years now, but the ADHD meds have made a big difference even on top of that.

        She also said something interesting about anxiety. Apparently anxiety itself is a stimulant, which lights up whatever centres in our brain are missing due to the ADHD. In other words, we actually create anxiety as a way of soothing the ADHD, by providing the extra stimulation we need! It’s wild. So once the ADHD is under control, we don’t need the extra stimulation, and can stop winding ourselves up with those thoughts of “Everything in the world is wrong and it’s all my fault!”

        Brains, amirite? Fascinating stuff.

        1. SRB*

          Woah. This explains my anxiety and why I keep finding, almost searching for, things to be anxious about.

          I have been told by therapists (who don’t have prescribing ability) that I am a textbook case of inattentive type ADHD. I’m going in next week for a referral to someone who can say whether or not medication would be helpful, because I have all sorts of really great coping mechanisms I’ve developed with my therapist that just. Aren’t. Working. Lately. I have reminder alarms to do things, borderline ocd tendencies to put things in the same places so I dont lose them, pomodoro timers to keep me on tasks, I shut down my email and buried my shortcuts to Chrome and IE, installed chrome apps that nuke my internet browser if I spend more than 10 minutes goofing off…

          And somehow I’m still making comments on AAM during work hours. Curse you braaaaaain!!!

      4. Chaordic One*

        One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of people with ADHD learn to manage their symptoms by self-medicating with tobacco or alcohol or drugs or something else. Counseling in combination with prescription meds to replace whatever they were self-medicating with almost always helps.

    6. SRB*

      I have a window open w those books on amazon and I am going to order them (provided I don’t forget!!!) I’m not sure if I’m just more aware of it lately, more fed up with it, or if my ADHD is actually worse lately.

      Ive got a lot of strategies I’ve developed with my therapist, which help like 35% but not 100%.
      – even with friends, if I say “I’ll do X”, I pull up my note pad on my phone and write it in. This has reduced my number of forgotten promised from 80% to like 50%
      – if I’m in a restaurant with TVs, I position myself facing away from any tv. If there is no such spot, I make a note to never go back. This has reduced my “zone out and stare at TVs while having a romantic conversation w my husband” incidents from 100% of restaurant dinners to like 40%
      – “keys, check, cell phone, check, wallet, check, ok now I can leave”. I’ve only locked myself out of the house and had to climb in the back window once this year!!’
      – Stayfocused Google chrome extension. I’ve used “the nuclear option” every day this week. I still find some way to get distracted from my work though.

      Does anyone have strategies for finding lost items… that you share with a non ADHD person? My keys have two rings: car keys and house keys. Sometimes my husband borrows the car keys (we only have one) and I inevitably ALAWYS lose one or the other when this happens. I can’t exactly impose my same rigid “always keep keys together and always put them on the hook” rule with him.

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        I think you can impose that rule on him, actually! I’m assuming he knows that you have ADHD, so it’s perfectly reasonable to explain to him that this is a strategy you need to use.

        The Kolberg & Nadeau book has three sections for each type of organizational challenge – things you can do yourself, things your family can help you with, and things that professionals should help you with. They’re pretty clear that we need help in all kinds of ways, and this is one really obvious example of that. If you need the car keys on the hook, and he’s the one holding the car keys, he needs to help you by putting them away where you need them.

        1. SRB*

          So I had forgotten about buying the books because I had to drive home but then was in the middle of feeding the kitties when I decided to check my phone and now I’m glad I did because I definitely will buy this book.

          Anyways I’ll ask. I guess I just feel bad asking him to do it every time when even I don’t always remember to do it. (Sometimes the kitties are just so friendly when I walk in the door and I just put everything on the floor to pet them!) :3

  17. Q*

    Yesterday was the first time I was the only person on my team in the office….I have by far the lowest sneiority here (five months, when the next lowest person on my team of three has been here seven years doing this job).

    I kinda…loved it? We were a little too busy for one person, but I think I handled things pretty well in their absence, and the autonomy and ability to make my own decisions (within reasons) about what of our many priorities to do and in what order, was fun. Being that busy was fun (since few things were critical). Having people come to me and feeling valuable for the first time was fun.

    1. Matilda Jefferies*

      Me too, I love being alone in the office. I sometimes still have the feeling of a little kid who is home alone without her parents, but mostly it makes me feel like “Hey, I’m an adult, and other adults trust me to do adulty things!”

      1. Q*

        Hah, the department was actually full (the department is made of about three or four teams, of which mine is definitely one of the smaller ones). It was just my two teammates who were out.

        But yeah, it was really nice to know I was trusted to handle things while everyone was gone. and I think I did a pretty decent job!

        Of course, team lead is back today (the other person is still out), so there was only so much pressure, of course.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      I love being alone in the office! I was the only person last week in an area that seats about 30 people so I decided to do a cartwheel in our bullpen. Thank god I was alone because it was not my best idea and I fell over in slow motion and looked really ridiculous.

      1. Q*

        Everyone kept asking me how it felt to be the only Teapot Tester. Not sure how to say “I love it!” without sounding like I don’t like the other two Teapot Testers. But I got to delegate my own work, and got to try out some things that the more senior ones usually take care of without even looping me in about them.

    3. Goya*

      I love my alone days in the office. Because it’s generally scheduled in advance, they are slow days. I feel like I get so much more done and feel like I can make a more personal connection with the few people who come in that day.

    4. Dawn*

      I had a boss that was an alcoholic, and my only coworker was his best friend and also an alcoholic, I loved the days that they’d both be too hungover to come to work. I would get so much done! It was also a perk that they drank at the bar that I worked nights at and my boss hated leaving his BMW there so he’d have me take it home instead of my Hyundai. At the end of my day I’d go pick him up and he’d take me to my car/ second job. Loved that job! The company ultimately dissolved, but it was an excellent 5 years for me.

    5. BA*

      The first time me and other newbie got left in the office all day, the last more senior teapot tester kept asking “are you sure you’re ok” and insisted on giving us 3 different phone numbers. He stopped when I told him he was like a parent leaving a baby with a babysitter the first time. (Not offended, just embarrassed)

      The other newbie and I had been teapot testers for about 4 years a piece, we were experienced, just new to the office.

      1. Q*

        Senior Teapot Tester sent me an email yesterday morning checking in on me and CCing our manager, which prompted HIM to check on me.

        But I was doing fine!

        (But I have only been here five months, and it was the first time I was the only Teapot Tester)

    6. Annie Moose*

      At OldJob, I (the least senior person by a few years) was basically the only person on my team who didn’t take Fridays off, so I was frequently the only person around on Fridays. It was lovely! We had a rotating responsibility to monitor our team inbox, so I’d take over responsibility from whoever’s week it was for the day, if anything major came in, and so on. There usually wasn’t much happening, but still, it felt nice to be like, I am the team today, I’m representing us.

  18. Cafe au Lait*

    I’m out on maternity leave and checked the rolling meeting notes document yesterday to stay in the loop. All the ideas I’d put in motion before I left have changed trajectory from what I envisioned. The individuals handling these projects are capable, smart and life will be fine. At the same time, mentally I’m yelling “BUT MY IDEAS!!!”

    1. Goya*

      Frustrating!!!!!

      I too have a hard time of letting go of my work, even though it’s off to individuals who will do fine…just not MY way ;)

  19. Fortitude Jones*

    Today’s my last day at work! So happy to start my new job Monday. However, I must admit, I’m going to miss my colleague’s – they almost made me cry this morning. One of the manager’s took me to Starbucks and let me buy whatever drink I wanted on him (this is important because he loathes Starbucks with a passion and refuses to spend money there, but he knows how much I love it, so he decided to treat me on my last day). My team’s about to take me to lunch at my favorite restaurant, which isn’t cheap (thanks, corporate cards!). And one of my coworkers gave me the sweetest going away speech that nearly brought me to tears. I’m going to miss these fools, LOL. I will not, however, miss our agents or our insureds or their crazy ass customers. I am soooo happy to be getting away from them.

    The SVP of our corporate office sent me a sweet email last week telling me I’m always welcome to come back – ha! He probably didn’t find out about my exit interview answers yet, lol. I almost feel guilty about ripping them a new one…almost.

  21. anon for today*

    I’ve got an interview outfit question. I’m a women interviewing at a place that from what I can tell is business casual (it’s a state branch of a large national nonprofit). I have very limited time, very few things in my closet that currently fit, and budget wise- well I’m job hunting for a reason. I have a black pencil skirt and several nice blouses, and was hoping to get a blazer to go with it. The only blazer I have been able to find is black, but the blacks don’t match. Which would be better: the non matching black blazer, or ditching it for a button up and nice cardigan?

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        I agree, don’t wear mismatched blacks. The cardigan and nice blouse should be fine. Good luck on your interview!

    2. Anon Marketer*

      You can also wear a dress if you have one and wear the blazer over that, which helps solve some of the mis-matched black problems (so long as the dress isn’t navy blue).

      But if you’re forced in between the two, choose the cardigan.

      Good luck! :)

      1. peachie*

        This is what I would do! Then again, I’m such a blazer person, even on my off days–cardigans are totally appropriate, and if that seems more “you,” that’s what you should do.

      2. anon for today*

        I had the dress idea, and while I don’t own one I was willing to buy if I could find something affordable. But the stores seem to have stashed all their business appropriate clothes away in favor of holiday-wear. So many sparkles.

    3. Fortitude Jones*

      I wear mismatched blacks in my business casual office, but wear another black shirt underneath the blazer that’s slightly off from the color of the jacket and the pants so it’s clear it’s intentional. However, in an interview situation, it may look like you were going for a buttoned up suit look, and then the non-matching thing just looks strange. So yes, go with a cardigan so as not to make your interviewers think you’re not polished because your colors aren’t an exact match.

      1. Q*

        I agree; mismatched blacks in a business casual outfit isn’t that bad, but in an interview it would call attention to itself and make it very obvious they didn’t come together.

    4. SarahKay*

      Sorry, no advice about non-matching blazer vs cardigan (would want to see each before advising…) but what about local charity shops (thrift stores in the US?) for an outfit? Whatever you decide, though, good luck for the interview!

    6. Emac*

      I agree that the cardigan should be fine. The last interview I went on was for a non-profit that was business casual. I also didn’t have a suit for various reason and ended up wearing a nice skirt and sweater. I got the job.

    7. Rusty Shackelford*

      Agree with the cardigan. Is the blazer something you own, or something you were going to buy? If you already have the blazer, and if you don’t get this job, you might start looking for a skirt to go with the black blazer – grey, or a subtle pattern (herringbone, houndstooth, etc.).

    9. ThursdayNext*

      Of course I don’t know your area or your exact budget, but have you looked at thrift shops? I’ve seen more ‘botique’ thrift shops where the clothes are more expensive (like $16 instead of $8) but the employees have selected for quality, and the one near me always has a good collection of business clothes, including many women’s blazers.
      Have you looked at J. Crew Factory or H&M? Their sizes are limited if you’re plus sized, but they do have blazers for ~$50 or less, so you could find a grey or tan blazer, or a non-black pencil skirt. Nordstroms Rack is more of a hit or miss but I think they always carry come Calvin Klein women’s business wear and have actual clearance items, including blazers, from Nordstroms brands.

    10. Annie Moose*

      Yeah, I definitely agree that a nice cardigan is perfectly dressy. For real world anecdata, at my work, we generally wear suits (we’re state contractors, so we have to look nice for our customers), but a lot of women will sub out a cardigan, and it’s totally fine.

      FWIW I totally wear a mismatched black blazer and black pants to work all the time (they’re not that far off from each other)–I just wouldn’t do it to an interview.

    11. Pat Benetardis*

      If you can afford to, I would keep the blazer and change the bottoms. The blazer is what people will see mostly while you are sitting. If you can afford to, change the skirt to a charcoal grey skirt or pants (from somewhere like target or TK Max) so you don’t have to worry about mismatched blacks.

  22. Ramona Flowers*

    Inspired by a conversation I had earlier this week: what’s the weirdest, most ridiculous or just plain naive request you’ve ever had to work for free or provide free work product?

    I was just remembering how a university several hours away, with no prior connection to me, asked me to come and speak on a topic I had once covered in an op-ed article. I would have needed to spend time preparing the talk and it would have involved an overnight stay. The person who contacted me (a grad student, I think) said they couldn’t pay me beyond travel expenses but I would get to join them in their formal dining room where everyone wears formal dress (which I presumably needed to provide myself). They seemed to think this was somehow a selling point. It was not.

    I simply said no, I can’t do that for no pay. But perhaps I should have told them how ridiculous the formal dinner part was…

    1. Anon Marketer*

      A quote directly from my mom:

      “Can you create a website for my yoga instructor? She can’t pay, but she can give me free yoga lessons.”

      I declined.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        You didn’t want to be paid in vicarious yoga lessons? But you can totally pay the bills with those!

    2. selina kyle*

      I got a call from someone who claimed that the university was accredited but our school (one of the largest facets of the university) wasn’t. He was very upset and wanted me to “prove” that we were accredited because he didn’t believe our website. I transferred him to someone higher ranking than me, but I still am not sure what he was hoping to get from the whole experience.

      1. Artemesia*

        If it is a professional program then it needs separate accreditation, but if it is part of the undergraduate program of an accredited university then it is ‘accredited’. Weird.

        1. selina kyle*

          Oh – I’m not talking a program. It is a whole school (think a school of business at a large university). More, our website details that we are accredited so he was just very confused.

    3. NoMoreMrFixit*

      In my younger days I was an organist. I was asked to play for a funeral. Instead of paying me they wanted to invite me to the reception afterwards for the free food. Fortunately the minister politely explained the policy was to pay me the going rate.

      1. Artemesia*

        The church where my daughter was married had a set menu of prices for organist, the person who locks, cleans, unlocks etc the church for events as well as a basic fee for the space which was gratis as I recall for members. I think churches really need to do that to make it clear for everyone.

        1. NoMoreMrFixit*

          We did have set prices. Some folks just didn’t think they should have to pay the fee. Wasn’t the only time someone pulled a stunt like that. Looking back I think part of it was the fact that I was in my teens so some people felt justified in not paying a kid.

    4. CAA*

      My brother-in-law wanted me to create “a database” for his business. What he really wanted to do was keep track of the equipment he owns and leases out; how much each item is earning for him; how much he spends on repairs; etc. So basically an entire inventory control and accounting system for a small business. I told him I’d be glad to spend a few hours helping him set up Quick Books.

    5. Landlocked Thalassophile*

      Someone once offered me their entire stock of handmade cards from their failed Etsy store. Claimed they were worth $1200 “wholesale” but could be worth 2-3X times that retail. When I pointed out she was closing her Etsy store because she was making enough to cover the Etsy fees, she said “But maybe YOU would have better luck selling them!”
      Yeah, I love the idea of working twice for cash…

    6. Elizabeth West*

      I did something for free for a [relative] to get a resume item, but then they ended up not using it (not their fault) and have since left the job. They’d still give me a reference and have a different last name so nobody would know the connection but I probably won’t do that ever again. Pay me or GTFO.

    7. JamieS*

      Not really weird but more annoying. When I was a college freshman I worked as a seasonal tax preparer at a national tax prep chain. Fast forward to the next year and the branch I worked at changed ownership. As expected the new owner called and asked me to come in for an interview. I go to the interview and before I’ve even sat down I was immediately told that they weren’t going to hire me back for another season because they don’t hire college students but they would be willing to do an internship with me so I can ‘learn the ropes’ and ‘see how the magic happens’.

      Not wanting to burn a bridge I asked what the internship would entail and if it was going to be paid. Short answer is no it wouldn’t be paid and I’d be doing the same thing as last year (preparing returns unsupervised). So I responded “so basically you want me to do for free what I got paid to do last year with no additional training or development to make it even remotely worth it to me?” Then got up and left.

      In hindsight probably wasn’t the most professional response but in the moment I was proud of myself for not telling her to find another sucker. Actually I’m still proud of my restraint there.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Wow. That reminds me of the episode of The League of Gentlemen where the evil unemployment coach won’t let someone go to a job interview – because they need to attend a compulsory seminar on getting a job interview.

        I’m glad you told them where to go!

        2. esra*

          Funnily enough (?), a few years ago I had a very angry rep from the unemployment office call up demanding to know why I couldn’t attend a similar compulsory seminar. I said… because it’s the first day of my new job. I submitted that information on my report form.

          WELL!! If I kept that up, I would not be able to continue receiving benefits and I had better put it on my report form*!!

          *Which I had already submitted. She was very mad and my laugh probably didn’t help.

    8. Malibu Stacey*

      Not me, but my close friend works at an org that puts on CLEs for attorneys. Someone wandered in to the office one day & started chatting with the receptionist & basically asked how he could set himself up to put on CLEs. Not like, are you hiring, but can you can explain in detail how I can set myself up as your competitor?

    9. JD*

      This kid wanted us to give him a $1900 race suit for $300 because “that’s all I have”. We are not a retail store but do sell some of the racing items for our racing clients which he was not.

      I also saw something on FB the other day about a product and a woman replied “I can’t afford this, do you give donations for people who cannot afford”. Her profile pic is of her with an iPhone X in Ray Bans in front of a Mercedes. Such an eye roll.

      People really think they deserve free stuff just “because” they want it to be free.

    10. Fenchurch*

      A good friend of mine took my brother’s senior pictures for pretty cheap. My mother asked her if she could “photoshop out the wrinkles on his shirt” and also “make his hair look smoother”.

      I felt pretty ashamed to be related to her. My younger sister decided to basically give him a “Jimmy Neutron” look using microsoft paint to mock

    11. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      A guy I’d been dating for all of about 3 weeks enthusiastically let me know that I “could” create invitations, t-shirts and a banner for his family’s upcoming reunion (it was apparently a big family and a big event). He didn’t ask me to do it — he simply stated it like he was giving me permission. Apparently I “could” also create business cards for him for his hobby/side business. Maybe I could, but I didn’t.

    12. Ama*

      When I worked at a graduate department that focused on ancient history and archaeology we got some really bizarre phone calls:
      – The actual Hollywood producer who’d call about once every six months, demanding to be put through to our director because he wanted to produce a movie about archaeologists and thought there was no way we wouldn’t be falling all over ourselves to help him (I looked him up on IMDB and had done some B movies). He was incredibly rude and my director told me the first time he had no interest in speaking with him, but since this dude wasn’t going to take a no from a lowly receptionist I had to keep pretending to pass on the messages.

      – The woman who called because she was writing a mystery novel on “the ancient world” and wanted to speak to a professor to do research. When I asked what time period and area of the world she was interested in (because that’s how our faculty were organized) she just kept repeating, “you know, the ancient world!” I actually don’t remember how I got her off the phone.

      -The woman who called us on behalf of her expat friends living in Cairo who had found some kind of artifact in their basement and wanted someone to evaluate it without alerting the Egyptian officials (which, by the way, is super duper illegal in Egypt and if any of our professors had done it and been found out our entire institution could have been banned from ever doing any further fieldwork in the country).

      -The person who called us because they had proof that there had been a massive pyramid in the middle of the United States years before Ancient Egypt and wanted to speak to someone about excavating it. That one, thankfully, was easy because we didn’t actually study ancient history of the Americas in our department. After I told the person that they cheerfully said they’d call [another institution in another state, unaffliated with us], then, and asked me if I could transfer them.

      I don’t get anything nearly that interesting at my current job, although partly because I don’t have to talk to the general public nearly as often. (My coworkers in the fundraising department get a lot of people who seem to think “offering to throw a fundraiser” and “expecting a nonprofit org to throw a fancy party at their house free of charge” are the same thing.)

    13. Broadcastlady*

      Radio business. Get asked weekly to come do remote broadcasts for free. The going rate in our market is $250 per hour for the station fee, and $50 per hour for talent (me). Nope.

    14. Welkikitty*

      I teach AutoCAD and other specialized engineering design programs to high school and college students. I recently had a parent of a high school student contact me and ask to meet with me. The student was making a high B in the class, so it was really kind of odd, but hey, gotta honor the parent requests.

      The mother comes in with a bunch of magazines and asks me if I can design some custom bathroom cabinets for her client because she “just started” an interior design business and needs plans for the “handyman” who was going to build them. I told her I do freelance work, but I charge $75/hr for design work. She told me that “this would be a great favor” and that she couldn’t pay me because she was “just starting out” but promised me some “exposure” and “credit” with her client.

      I declined, and then she yelled at me that she “pays my salary as a taxpayer” (it’s a public high school) and that she “was friends with (the superintendent) so I just better help her.” I told her no and thanked her for coming in.

    15. Me*

      This is actually pretty common in academia. Giving invited talks is an honor and they pay for your travel

    16. Broadcastlady*

      Judging things. I work in radio and get asked at least a few times a month to judge a cake contest, random parade, chili cook-off, etc. Usually on a Saturday afternoon and never with pay. I’m never available.

  23. Anon Marketer*

    I have a “problem” of looking younger than I am. I’m almost 30, but coupled with my young face and eager to please personality, I can get “parented” by older, but well-meaning co-workers (usually told I’m reminded of their kids). It was cute at first, but at this point, it’s getting annoying, from “I hope you’ll eat more for lunch,” from getting compared directly to their high school-aged kids, and it often leads to the impression I can’t be taken seriously.

    I’ve casually waved it off like, “Oh, don’t mom me, I’m almost 30, you know, haha,” but it does raise some concerns on how this can affect my professional status going forward.

    Thoughts?

    1. Laura*

      I’d make liberal use of the phrase “That’s an odd thing to say to a co-worker.” Also, don’t say “almost thirty”, it doesn’t matter what age you are if you’re their colleague and if they’re older being 29 would still sound really young.

      Good luck!

    2. La Revancha*

      I have had similar situations happen. I also look young and am 30. Here are some examples of what my older coworkers have said and what I responded with:

      Them – “Since our CEO is coming into town next week, make sure you dress accordingly”
      Me – “Yes of course, I’ve already thought about this. Thank you for the reminder though!”

      Them – “Make sure you update X document or save X document”
      Me – “I’ve already done so. Thanks!”

      Them – “You should probably take notes about things that happened while John is on vacation (John = my boss)”
      Me – “I started that yesterday. Great minds think alike!”

      1. Mints*

        I do this with my actual mom haha
        “Remember to pack [thing]”
        “I will!”

        “Make sure to bring a sweater tonight”
        “Yup!”

        1. La Revancha*

          LOL I do it with my dad.

          “Watch your dog when you have the door open! he will run out fast.”
          – yes dad I’m aware of what my dog does I’ve had him for 11 years.

          “Stay close to Eugene (boyfriend) when you travel or you’ll get kidnapped and sold into sex slavery!” (yes he says this every time I go out of the country”
          – yes dad, I’m aware and not going to do anything to put myself in harms way like going to a night club at 4 am with strangers.

    3. Artemesia*

      I’d reflect on how you project professionalism. If eager to please means acts like an enthusiastic kid or puppy then stop that. Also look at dress. When you are young dressing a little more professionally and being a little more no nonsense is helpful — and no ‘haha’ when noting that you don’t need parenting.

      1. Kj*

        Yes, this. I was young for my office at my last job, but I rarely got talked down to or mommed, because I was VERY careful to be professional and dress slightly more professionally than co-workers (I could have worn jeans every day, but I usually chose a nice knit dress and tights, which was a step-above everyone else’s dress in terms of professionalism). I also made a real effort to relate to others on an adult level and talk about things that are considered more adult, such as retirement and stocks. Sounds silly, but it worked well with co-workers.

    4. CCF*

      I had this issue briefly at a new job when I was 25. Half of the people on my team had kids older than me. I had a hard time at first figuring out if people talked to me like that because of the parenting default, or just because they knew I was 25 and new to the company. But eventually I put a stop to it by talking to people in a way that their children never would. I was assertive and serious with everything. Comments that seemed like parenting were answered in tones that made clear I was not amused. Eventually people got the point that I was an equal and it worked out well.

      1. Mints*

        Oh this is my current job. The things that seem most helpful when it’s happening (comments on how un/healthy my lunch is) is just polite blandness. Like “I like it” and let the awkward silence go. If they’re just chatty, they’ll be trained out of it, and talking to me about other subjects is more friendly

    5. Someone else*

      I’ve got no advice for you other than to say I get the same thing, and was once mistaken for a high school intern when I was 27. So, you’re not alone? At 32 I got a “do you graduate soon, honey?” but that was a receptionist somewhere I did not work.

    6. AnnaleighUK*

      I get this but it’s usually with clients, my colleagues initially thought I was much younger than I am (36) but they treat me fine. Clients, on the other hand… I went to see one last week who asked me ‘so when is the safety inspector getting here?’ and I said ‘I am the safety inspector’. His surprise was far too obvious. I have a young face, it sucks. I tend to just make sure that I always wear makeup and a sharp suit, and act extremely professionally. But then we get clients calling to say how ‘very capable the young Scottish girl is’ and ‘she’s going to go far’. Okay then.

  24. fposte*

    Setting aside the politics, that interview with Washington Post reporter Stephanie McCrummen and the ostensible source who was really from Project Veritas offers a great communication model for management. McCrummen has a sympathetic tone and posture and yet never, ever responds to the attempts at forced teaming or emotional bids for derailment. Managers struggling with what to do in difficult situations with staff who try to bring irrelevant stuff or emotional defenses should watch this video.

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I was so, so impressed with her. Her long silences. Her strategic “hmms” and “ohs?” and “yeahs…” Really skillful.

      1. fposte*

        I kept thinking of how often I’ve seen people posting here with stuff like “It feels rude not to respond” or “It feels rude to ignore.” Watch this woman retain a kind manner and talk about exactly what she wants to, no more, no less.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      Oh, I’m glad you wrote this, I felt the same way! She was masterful and you could see the other woman getting more and more nervous as she realized the jig was up.

      1. Rebecca in Dallas*

        Yes! She did the classic “I’m just going to let you dig your own hole” tactic, I loved it!

    6. nep*

      A fantastic model and lesson. I’ll listen to this again and again. Such professionalism, smarts, and skill.

  25. Nervous Accountant*

    Y’all I’m so. Blah. I lost my chances to a mid year raise that I didn’t even know was on the table. Kicking myself now bc a little white lie could have prevented that from happening. I’m trying to find solace in the fact that I won’t be given what’s not meant for me. But. I’m just so frustrated. I feel like I do a great job but my boss (not my Mgr) can find one tiny thing and uses that to argue against paying me fairly. It feels like the goal posts keep moving further and further.

    1. fposte*

      I don’t think you should have lied to get a raise, though. Even if you don’t have an ethical problem with it, it puts you at risk of losing the job entirely. So I think maybe this saved you from yourself :-). Hopefully you’ll get it next time.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I guess. It would have just been a small white lie, nothing earth shattering or violation of ethics or harm anyone. It just pisses me off that I can do 99% things right but she finds a non issue issue and uses that against me.

        1. Emi.*

          Well, apparently it’s an actual-issue to her, so she would presumably be righteously pissed if you’d lied about it.

          Also, lying–especially in order to get “what’s not meant for [you]”–is an ethical issue in and of itself and lots of people will hold it against you, even if the subject doesn’t matter to them.

    2. Beancounter Eric*

      I had a boss several years ago who, when we were conducting my annual review, remarked when he came to “Integrity” that for Accountants, there is one and only one acceptable score – perfect.

      Lying, of any degree, is incompatible with integrity – ” a small white lie, nothing earth shattering or violation of ethics or harm anyone”…..it is an ethical breach. In this case, you didn’t tell the “small white lie”….but it sounds like you will in the future if it gets you ahead.

      You “feel” like you do a great job – well, from the looks of things, your reviewer doesn’t agree. And what you consider a “tiny thing” may, in fact, be pivotal in the success or failure of your enterprise.

      Word of advice – “I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do” goes a long way.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        The thing I would have been lying about was not related to integrity, at least i don’t c it that way.. Ok so i had a lot of appts on my calendar to reach out to clients. We’re always encouraged to reach out to our clients. My boss thought they were fake appts so I could block my calendar. I told her many were actual appts, but some were reminders for myself to reach out. I could have said that they were ALL real appts.

        I get that lying itself would have been lacking integrity, but i don’t see how trying to carve out time during my work day to reach out to clients is dishonest in and of itself. I’m busy enough throughout day, I’m not going to work 66 hours a week when it’s not tax season.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Hmmm, so I disagree that that would have been a white lie. It would have been a lie of substance; you would have been misrepresenting your schedule and your work plans (and to some extent your work results, since it would look like you’d connected with people you hadn’t actually connected with) to your boss. That’s actually a really big deal for truthfulness and integrity — if I found out someone lied to me about that exact thing, I’d actually be thinking about firing them. So I think you should be glad you told the truth, and not feel bad about it!

            1. Nervous Accountant*

              Agh wish I could edit comments. Hard to type on phone too much. I didn’t think of it that way and that’s an interesting way to look at it. But I’m not sure I agree with it. We’re told to reach out to everyone–I’m making an effort to do so. I have a professional license—i wouldn’t have that if I was lacking in ethics or integrity.

              1. Artemesia*

                That is a non sequitur. There are thousands of people with professional licenses who lack integrity. You can carve out time on the calendar for outreach without listing specific clients with whom you have appointments.

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        I don’t disagree at all with what you & everyone else is saying. I just don’t think my situation was an ethical violation. I realize now that my initial post may have been vague.

        1. Judy (since 2010)*

          Does your email system allow you to mark items free time? I have a number of reminder appointments that I mark as free time, so they notify me, but I move them around if I get a meeting request.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Backing this up a bit, I am having trouble understanding why you did not know there was a possibility for a raise. Why didn’t your boss let you know that?
      Additionally, I am not getting what is wrong here. You had stuff calendarized. The boss asked you about it and you answered truthfully. Then she dinged you for it. Did she give you any clue what she felt you should have done?

      The way this reads to me is, “My boss won’t give me a raise because I did not fill out my calendar the way she wanted me to. However, I had no idea how she wanted me to fill out my calendar before this conversation.”
      You didn’t read her mind so no raise-that-you-didn’t-know-about for you.

      I hope I am misreading this. If not, this boss is super unprofessional. The problem with bosses who move the goal posts is that they encourage lying/deceit as people try to run toward the ever-moving goal posts.

      I can understand the reaction that lying brings on firing. I have also seen so many bosses who do not go by this rule, preferring to keep the employee and watch them squirm as they make the employee as miserable as possible. I hope I am wrong here, but it seems that your actual problem is that your boss can’t manage people.

  26. Can I say something?*

    I am a receptionist, and as such, I deal with all the ingoing and outgoing mail for my company, which is fairly substantial. On average I send out 80 – 120 invoices, plus 20+ checks. We also send out the larger envelopes often and I can get anywhere from 2 – 30 of those (every Friday I have at least 20).

    On top of the mail the company sends out, every once in a while people will come by with something personal to ask me to drop in the mailbox, which I normally don’t mind. It’s not every day, and it’s only a few additional envelopes so it doesn’t make a difference. And people are always nice about it and check that it’s ok. The issue I am having is with these envelopes one particular colleague always brings. They are only slightly larger than a regular envelope (think the larger envelopes folded in half) and they are never heavy, but whatever she is putting in them makes them very bulky and awkwardly shaped, so they always make it difficult to easily balance them with everything else I take to the mailbox. I am assuming they are personal items, because they have pre-printed Ebay labels with her personal address on them, but she’s never said anything, just drops them in the outbox. (I can also safely assume it’s unlikely we’d sell our products on Ebay because while we could conceivably get rid of small quantities of discontinued items, we generally only sell wholesale to retailers). She brings these to me about twice a week I think, sometimes more.

    So I don’t know how, or even if I should ask this woman if I am sending out her personal mail. If it is business related then it’s fine because that’s the job, but if it is personal, I would kind prefer if she at least considers bringing it to the mailbox herself. The box isn’t far, and while she can take a minute to run out and drop it, I need to keep the desk constantly covered so I can only take it on my lunch break or on my way home unless someone stops their work to cover for me.

    Complicating things is that I like her – she’s very personable and is one of the few people who will chat occasionally while most people forget I am here once they pass me in the morning. She is also one of the few people I can call to cover the desk the few times I need a break beyond my set lunch period (which is about twice a month. I can usually do good with just that one break) so I don’t want to upset her.

    So is there a way I can subtly ask her if this actually is work related or personal, and suggest she take some of them to the box herself? Or would I be better off just sucking it up and continuing to balance these things precariously?

    1. fposte*

      Uh–I think she’s having you work for her eBay business for free and she needs to knock that off immediately. “Sorry, Jane, I can’t do the mailings for your eBay stuff anymore on the office clock.”

    2. EmilyAnn*

      I feel like there is work mail, personal mail, and side-hustle mail. If I sell things as side -hustle then I shouldn’t be using my company resources to do so. If I need to send a bill and the receptionist doesn’t mind, then that’s different. Can you talk to her directly or talk to a manager about this? I think a simple “I’m sorry, but the stuff you give me is hard to balance with regular mail, so I can’t take it anymore” should be good enough.

      1. Can I say something?*

        The problem is that I don’t KNOW it’s a side hustle, I am just assuming it is. So if I am wrong then I would be telling her I can’t do something that I really should be doing

        1. Lily in NYC*

          Are these labels pre-paid or is she using company resources for shipping? We recently fired someone for his side-hustle selling rare sneakers (because he was using our computers and other resources even after being warned).

          1. Can I say something?*

            They are pre-paid. I think the only company resource she uses besides me would be the postage scale and maybe a single sheet of paper and a little tape for each of these.

            1. Lily in NYC*

              Thanks for clarifying. I would think about telling her that her packages add too much bulk and that you’d really appreciate if she brings them to the box herself going forward. There’s no way an ebay return address is work-related.

              1. Infinity Anon*

                I agree. I think it is relatively non-confrontational to tell her that while you do not mind occasionally carrying down envelopes for your coworker, you cannot easily carry the bulky ebay envelops down to the mailbox.

      2. Artemesia*

        This. the occasional personal letter fine; all the Christmas cards, not fine; side hustle absolutely not fine and a conflict of interest.

    3. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      Could you get a box or bag to put the mail in? Technically she shouldn’t have you drop off her EBay sales. But seems like you have a good relationship and you are going to the mailbox anyway. Maybe just find a better way to carry all the mail?

      1. CAA*

        Yes, this is what I recommend as well. Don’t make any extra trips for her, but if it’s occasional stuff that’s not heavy, and you’re going anyway, just find a better way to schlep it there.

      2. Can I say something?*

        I have used a bag in the past but found it’s awkward to hold the mailbox open and reach into the bag, but going back to this might be my best bet.

      3. Anion*

        Yes, given that this woman covers the phones for her, and goes out of her way to treat OP as a person and not an invisible servant, I’d just figure it’s quid pro quo, and not bring it up–but get a bag, as you suggested. It seems the issue is that the mail is oddly shaped and not the fact that OP is being asked to drop off the mail at all, so deal with that. Whether it’s a side hustle or not really doesn’t matter; I’m not a fan of keeping track of stuff like that in general (which isn’t to say anyone here is being miserly or anything).

        If you want to say something, though, I’d mention specifically the size/shape of the envelopes and the bag you have to handle them. Like, “Hey, Jane? I was wondering about the envelopes you use. I don’t mind dropping them in the post for you at all–I’m happy to do it–but sometimes the size and shape makes them difficult to stack with the rest of the mail. Would you mind dropping those envelopes in this tote for me, instead of putting them with the rest of the outgoings? That just makes it easier for me to carry them.”

        That makes the very subtle point that this is an effort for you while making it clear that you don’t have a problem with doing it. It also invites her to maybe reconsider how she handles those things. But I dunno, my instinct is to not say anything about it given that she does stuff for you, too (not saying the things are equal, just that she’s not all take, if you know what I mean), and hopefully she’s a good enough person that she realizes that even though you’re going to mail stuff anyway it’s still a favor and she should remember that.

        JMO.

        1. Can I say something?*

          That might work. Honesty, it occurred to me that when I have had an excessive amount of mail, or a lot of my own packages to carry along with the mail, about an hour or so before I get off I occasionally ask her to cover for a few minutes while I run the mail down (so I don’t have to carry that AND all my junk). It might work to make a practice of having her cover and run it down before I get off on all the days that she brings me these things “since they are so awkward.” It would have the benefit of showing her just how often it is too.

    4. Malibu Stacey*

      I’ve been a receptionist and unfortunately, you sometimes do have to say, “It’s not possible to bring non-Teapots Inc to the mailbox anymore.” (with your supervisor’s okay, of course). It seems like there’s *always* someone who abuses it.

    5. S.I. Newhouse*

      Since she is one of the few at your company who treats you like a person, I’d try to tread gently here.
      My thought is this: Since she has already shown willingness to cover phones for you, maybe you could ask her if on a day you’re scheduled off/out sick, she would be willing take the mail down for you at the end of the day? If she actually does the task herself once, that might drive home the fact that hey, there’s a lot more mail to carry downstairs than she thought, and not to take your service for granted in the future.

  27. Detective Amy Santiago*

    I think I’m going to have a Skype interview next week for a possible new position.

    Best tips/etiquette/etc for a Skype interview?

    1. Anon Marketer*

      Treat it like an in-person interview.

      – Wear nice clothes.
      – Log into Skype early.
      – Make sure you have a good internet connection/webcam/space to set up (and clean your space, too!)
      – Silence all messaging programs/your phone. Do nothing but the interview.
      – Wait for them to call you, don’t initiate the call early.
      – Wear headphones/headset—call clarity is better and it won’t pick up the noise from your computer programs.
      – Speak clearly and look at the screen when speaking.

        1. Lia*

          And pets. My ex neglected to close the cats out of his office during a Skype call and they ran across the room behind him, and then paused to tussle with each other, complete with loud yowls.

          Also, try to be at a desk or table, not sitting on a couch. Your posture will be better and you’ll look more professional.

          2. Epsilon Delta*

            Ok so I clearly have never hired anyone, but watching someone’s cats play in the background would be like +100. Even if there were angry cat-yowls. Then I would know that it’s a kindred spirit.

        2. CatCat*

          Hahaha! I’m reminded of the video interview on the news where the guy being interviewed is in his home office and then one young child pops into the room in the background followed by a baby sibling in a baby walker. He tries to press on and mom eventually frantically ducks into the room to round up kids.

          It’s one of the best things I have ever seen. I will find it and share a link.

      2. Kara Zor-El*

        This is all great advice. However, I would add that you should try to look at the camera instead of the screen when you’re speaking. This will give the person on the other side the feeling that you’re making eye contact instead of looking down.

            1. Fact & Fiction*

              Interviewer: “Um…why are you looking at me like I’m a delectable piece of ?”

              Interviewee: “Oh…No reason.”

            2. Fact & Fiction*

              Oops I messed that up with brackets.

              Interviewer: “Um…why are you looking at me like I’m a delectable piece of *insert favorite food here*?”

              Interviewee: “Oh…No reason.” *continues staring at Thor and smacks lips*

      3. CatCat*

        Make sure you have good lighting too. Sometimes the videos can look dim in my experience.

        Do a practice Skype call with a friend or relative so you catch any technical/sound/visual issues that need to be corrected.

        Check if there is a back up phone number you can call in case there are any issues with the internet on the day of the interview.

      4. S.I. Newhouse*

        Agree with every point here, and I just want to emphasize doing a test Skype call before the interview, ideally with another Skype user. Skype sometimes is tricky to make work even when you normally have a strong internet connection otherwise. Make sure you’re totally comfortable with how it works before the interview. I’ve only had one Skype interview, and it was besieged with glitches (they couldn’t see me for a period of time, then I couldn’t see them) because I didn’t practice using the software beforehand. I didn’t get the job (fortunately I probably wouldn’t have wanted it anyway).

    4. Buffy*

      Also if you can, prop your laptop up on books or something so the camera is level with your face instead of looking up at you. And make sure, at least most of the time (even though it feels so awkward), to look into the camera when you are speaking rather than at the person’s face on the screen.

    5. Kathenus*

      This might be too late, but one thing I don’t think I’ve seen yet is to check out what your background is so that it looks OK to the people on the other end. One time I was doing a Skype interview in my bedroom because of my pets in the rest of the house, and made sure to set it up so there was a nice picture on the wall behind me versus my dresser or something. Good luck!

    6. Former Borders Refugee*

      The staffing manager at my legal staffing firm told us about a Skype interview she had with a dude who wasn’t wearing a shirt. (It was a short interview.)

      So… wear a shirt, for starters.

  28. Ghost Town*

    More just to vent and could really use some perspective to cool my frustration: my successor in my old position was offered a salary so much higher than I made.

    I moved positions in May and they (finally) hired my replacement, who started in November. They redesigned the position to formalize things I was already doing in that position and gave it a dual reporting structure. New person has the same level of education I had when I started, similar levels of higher education experience as I did when I started, but is a military veteran (position works with this military students). New person is also a man and I am not.

    The rational side of me knows that new person negotiated, which I did not b/c I was so young and it was 2009 so I felt happy to be offered a job w/actual benefits and related to my area of study. Rational me also knows that a new hire will always be offered more than a continuing employee.

    I had to move out to move up, not only to a different department, but to a different school at the university. New person’s salary is over 133% of what I made. It feels like a slap in the face b/c I did significant work to professionalize the position (not just disciplinary expertise, but actual work in student affairs, including publishing and presenting at conferences on related topics) and did a little bit of everything. I also did significant work to try to get the position reclassified to more accurately reflect the realities of the position (and you know, write a job description since HR apparently lost it). Yearly raises varied from 0.5%-1.5% b/c the administrative unit constantly begged poverty (and then we saw higher level hiring bonanzas). My last year, I actually took home less money each month b/c of the increase in parking pass and health insurance costs.

    I’ve mostly let it go, but a tiny part of me is bitter about the entire situation (but not mad at new person – they did their thing and good on them).

    1. Artemesia*

      This is the way of the world. Don’t waste energy on it, but think about how it can inform how you negotiate in the future. A common problem in most offices is salary compression where new salaries continue to rise while raises are low, so that someone working there 5 years may be making the same or even less than the new hire with the same new hire qualifications you had. It is why often people have to change jobs to be paid fairly.

    3. Mazzy*

      Ugh I had the same thing but both women. They also decided to lower requirements to attract fresh young talent, which made me feel doubly screwed – why did I have to wait and meet stringent expectations years before? Now someone with much less experience is the “same level” as me at that past job.

    4. persimmon*

      One way to think about it is that this new person is actually more experienced than you were initially. He has an extra X years of professional experience in the military, which is likely to command more salary, especially since it’s relevant to the position. It sounds like the real problem was not the initial salary you got, but more the refusal to give reasonable and deserved raises.

      1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

        I agree with this as well. I could be misunderstanding, but if your former position worked with military students, being a veteran really would add significantly to his ability to understand and help them in ways you couldn’t.

    5. Bess*

      I hate that. Once an old job had to hire TWO people to replace me, and they both got decent salaries approaching a mid-level professional level, while I had done all my work at a low low entry-level rate and much lower job title. And after I left they were like “wow Bess isn’t easy to replace!” Forget actually, you know, paying me a decent rate to begin with.

    6. JR*

      That sounds frustrating! One additional angle to consider – 2009 is long enough ago to consider the impact of inflation. I just looked at a couple of inflation calculators, and it looks like inflation accounts for about half the difference (as in, $100 in 2009 = about $115 today).

  29. Super Nintendo Chalmers*

    Question for creatives: I’m approaching my one-year mark at work and I want to ask for a title change.

    I work at a museum. I was hired as a Preparator (the people who install/deinstall, pack, store, & clean the art), but they hired me specifically because I have a lot of design experience and the Exhibition Designer desperately needed help with his crazy workload. In the year I’ve been there, I’ve been taking on more and more design tasks, while still doing a lot of Preparator stuff. Additionally, all the curators know I’m a designer, and have been coming to me with their own tasks, like making short documentaries for their exhibitions, etc.

    My question is, what title should I ask for? I don’t want to ask for Assistant Exhibition Designer because I don’t want my boss to feel like I’m stepping on his toes, or angling for his job (he’s been in this position for 35 years, he should retire but, as this is the non-profit world, he never will). I have a really good working relationship with him and I don’t want to compromise that. I also don’t want to ask for Graphic Designer, because that really doesn’t encompass all the things I do (including video editing, exhibition design, typesetting, a whole range of preparator stuff, and, yes graphic design).

    Additional question: I also really need a raise, I’m super underpaid and it’s affecting my morale, especially because my male coworker who only does Preparator stuff and NO design stuff gets paid more than I do. What’s an appropriate percentage to ask for after only one year?

    Ideas?

    1. Jules the Third*

      1) Don’t ask for a raise based on a ‘appropriate % to ask for’, base it on the market rate for the work you’re doing. Your position has changed, and you need to highlight that to your mgmt. Since you know another Prepator’s pay rate at your museum, that could be the base, then add on to it because you’re doing design work. Maybe start thinking with something like “Male Prepator’s salary + 10%”, be happy with +5% and ok with +3%, but I don’t have your knowledge of your workload; the % of time you spend on design work could move those %s up or down. I’m assuming that design work pays about 20% more than prepatory work, and that you’re spending 40% of your time on it (20% * 40% = 8%, ask high).

      Make sure you document the design work – how often you’ve done it, how many people you’ve helped, how many hours you’re spending on the design work, any feedback from the curators.
      2) Title – maybe Assistant Designer, since you’re doing design work for multiple groups, not just exhibits. Check Indeed.com for other possible titles.

      1. Super Nintendo Chalmers*

        The worst part of this is my position HASN’T changed – they hired me with all of us knowing I’d be doing this design work, I just didn’t know how (or that I even could or should) advocate for a higher pay for myself when I was hired. I’ve learned a lot by reading this blog, but I still haven’t put any of its advice in motion. Thank you for your response.

        1. The Curator*

          Assistant Curator is a good job title and doesn’t indicate that you are gunning for your bosses job. It just means that you are doing all the things you need to to help all facets of the department succeed.

          1. Super Nintendo Chalmers*

            HA! I am definitely not an assistant curator, and that requires a PhD that I don’t have

  30. peachie*

    I’m having a frustrating week. My department (of 2) is getting a ton of heat for a slight dip in renewal rates; the dip is due to financial reasons beyond our control (we have no influence in the price of membership dues, which hike significantly every year). Every day, we’re being snapped at to do more and to fix it, but we’re already doing all we can. Plus, our department is already understaffed and under-resourced–we have to do a lot of stuff ourselves that other departments have support for–so we don’t have the time or the money to do “more.” (I’m not saying we’re perfect, but I’m relatively confident that neither of us dropped the ball or made a mistake that would affect our numbers.)

    I get where the anxiety from my grandboss is coming from–I don’t like the numbers, either!–but the blame seems misplaced and it’s really wearing me down. My director put it well–she said it seems that every other C-level takes care of and goes to bat for their staff, but ours just throws us under the bus so much we might as well set up camp.

    1. No Parking or Waiting*

      This is one of the times I’d say “document.” Write a proposal that explains the difference you see between last year’s numbers and your current numbers. Write what the people you call are telling you and what you feel the reasons they aren’t renewing are. Make a list of suggestions, like discounts, added perks, targeting a more specific or a broader group.
      I think you’re dealing with a horrible person and an inept manager, but don’t let that hold you down. Force manager to: 1) treat you like a professional; 2) manage.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I’d make a really pretty graph that shows the correlation between the increase in membership dues and dip in renewal rates. Make the graph so clear that a three year old could see the problem. Give a copy to your director and ask her if she would like to pass that around for discussion.

  31. hiptobesquare*

    So, I might (based on my boyfriends job) be moving across the country. In a perfect world, I would get a job with the ability to work remotely so I can return home for the month of July and the 1st week of Aug. for a project here (outside of work hours).

    I know it’s a lot and I don’t want to be difficult but is this possible to discuss once an offer had been made? How? For what it’s worth I will not be going until I also have a job, but I’m not terribly worried about actually finding one.

    1. Lily in NYC*

      If it’s something you will have to do regardless of getting a job, then of course you should bring it up at the offer stage. Unfortunately, I think it’s a pretty huge ask that most people won’t consider unless you are an extremely stellar candidate. Then again, it also depends on your industry – I assume that it would be much more likely to do if you work in IT or another field where lots of people telecommute. Good luck!

      1. hiptobesquared*

        It’s not a dealbreaker, just… something I hope to do. I do work in IT so telecommuting isn’t a crazy idea – and I would only ask if they made it clear that telecommuting was on the table.

        I am also half debating freelancing which of course totally solves the issue, but that remains to be seen.

        1. Lily in NYC*

          Then I say go for it since you work in IT – it’s such a common thing in that field that I doubt anyone would blink twice.

          1. hiptobesquared*

            Thank you so much. You’ve made me feel so much better. Honestly, this is my only sticking point for the entire move.

    2. Ellen Ripley*

      FYI, FlexJobs.com is a good source for telecommuting jobs if you’re looking for one – it’s a subscription site but all the leads they have are legit, not sketchy stuff.

  32. Rick The Dev*

    Maybe a slightly off-topic question, but here goes.

    I’m an organizer of a programming meetup. At our meetups, we get a lot of people looking for jobs or technical help. I’m happy to provide them with advice at the actual meetup, because that’s why I run it.

    The problem is occasionally someone will ask me for my email or phone number, so they can keep asking me for help with programming or getting a job. There’s no need for this since we use Meetup.com to organize the meetups, and they have a messaging feature.

    But, a lot of computer types aren’t great at reading social cues, and I’m bad at saying “no”. Last meetup, we had someone who got very insistent on me giving them my email so I could keep helping them fix their computer. I tried to deflect them to using the Meetup site, but they got upset and insisted they needed my email because they would forget the site and they weren’t comfortable using it. This isn’t the first time this has happened, either. Asking them to leave would’ve been overkill in this situation but how should I handle this in the future?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      You need to use your words and say no even though you feel you are bad at it. I recommend you practise by yourself at home.

      No, that’s not possible.
      I don’t give out my email.
      I’m not able to share that.

      Any awkwardness is not your problem!

        1. Lily in NYC*

          I’d think up a phrase you can use with everyone: something like: I keep my email separate from this email group as a rule, so please contact me through the meetup site. If they persist, just smile nicely and say “sorry, I’ve learned the hard way to keep my email separate and I don’t make exceptions, I’m sure you understand”. And then don’t budge! The person asking is being pushy and it’s ok to set boundaries (easier said than done, I know!). An alternative is to create an additional gmail account and give that one out instead.

            1. Lily in NYC*

              I like to be friendlier than that and try not to make people feel bad for asking a simple request.

              1. NaoNao*

                The bad part isn’t the simple request. It’s the badgering after you’ve said no. It’s no longer a simple request. It’s an imposition and a boundary violation.

                I used to work in the public library system and (I hope this isn’t an insensitive use of the word) “selective deafness” was my best friend.

                I would decline the request with professional politeness the first, say, 2 times.
                The next 47 I would be unable to hear them for some weird reason! I would just give a vague smile and shrug and then toddle off to another area of the library and hide.

                You can soften the blow with another option, and if they argue back, then give the “mom answer”.

                Like:
                “I really need your personal email, though.”
                “Mm, I’m sorry but I keep that personal. You know how it is. But you can email me through the Meetup site!”
                “I won’t remember that!”
                “Better write it down then! Here’s a pen!” (super cheerful grade school teacher tone)
                “I need your email, pleeeeeese”
                (selective deafness)……
                …walk away casually, get busy with something else.

                *side note, can you get cards with the meetup address or contact information printed on them to hand out?

                1. Rick The Dev*

                  I’m new to this, actually. It’s an existing org and I volunteered to help about 6 months ago.

                  There are a few people who regularly home in on me and then just constantly ask very trivial questions that they know the answers to. Like:

                  Guy: “How do I change the terminal background color?”
                  Me: “Click there.”
                  Guy: “But I don’t like that color!”
                  Me: “Then click ‘customize’. Which is right there.”
                  Guy: “I don’t see it.”
                  Me: “Down there.” [while pointing]
                  Guy: “I don’t want to, is there a simpler way?”

                  I guess because I’m friendly, or young, or less assertive. I think that I should take a more direct approach to it, because I do have authority here, but I don’t know how to. Also don’t want to call someone out or kick them out in front of everyone – that would look bad.

                  Don’t get me wrong, I like helping people out with programming. I like learning from other people. I dislike it when someone interrupts something else I’m doing (a conversation, working on my own stuff, etc.) and starts talking at me or demanding my attention.

          2. Yorick*

            “My system is to have messages from Meetup contacts come through Meetup, so please communicate with me there.”

    2. Nita*

      That’s a very nice thing you’re doing! I was a Meetup organizer once and it’s an exhausting, thankless thing. About your question – maybe keep saying: “I’m sorry, it’s my policy not to give out personal contact information, but I do check Meetup messages regularly.” It’s very very common in some industries to just not give out your personal info because of the potential for being swamped with calls/messages, or possibly even harassed (let’s say it’s one of those jobs where clients tend to get upset about two weeks’ worth of work not being turned around in two hours).

      Also… programmers that are not comfortable using a computer? I’m having a little trouble picturing that. Maybe they’re newbies, but if that’s not the case they’re probably exaggerating so they can push you to give them your contact info.

      1. Rick The Dev*

        We get a lot of people who are just starting, and if they’ve been on Windows they might’ve installed a Linux distribution and not have their bearings with it yet. That kind of stuff is fairly frequent.

        People who’re comfortable in their current jobs don’t usually come out to these types of things, unless they’re friends with the regulars. And we have a lot of those. I’m glad that I have a few close friends from this group of people. They’re really nice.

    3. LizB*

      “I don’t give out my email or phone number. You can contact me through Meetup, or just come to the next actual meetup.” Repeat as necessary. If you’re feeling extra kind, you could make a mini-handout with instructions on how to use the Meetup messaging system and bring them to your meetups to give out. But really, these people aren’t bad at reading social cues — they’re just rude. They understand you’re saying no, they problem is they don’t want to accept it as an answer. Stand firm, and see if you can get any of your regular attendees to back you up; a well-placed “Dude, Rick doesn’t give out his contact information. His meetup already provides us with free tech support once a month, which is really nice of him, and it’s pretty rude to insist he does that 24/7.” could be helpful.

    4. Super Nintendo Chalmers*

      There’s no need to say the word “No” here. Just say, “Oh, you can contact me on meetup.com!” and change the subject. If they insist, just repeat it: “I prefer to stick to meetup.com.”

      1. Rick The Dev*

        I repeated that a couple of times, but this person just insisted they weren’t comfortable with using the Meetup site and that they would forget it. Honestly he was kind of visibly upset, which weirded me out and put me on the defensive.

        I guess what I should’ve said was something like “I understand, but I want to keep it to Meetup.com. And if you’re asking me to help you out, please stick with that.” And if they kept pushing, THEN I should’ve asked him to leave.

        TBH I’ve had some weird interactions as an organizer. Once someone found my phone number on LinkedIn and started texting me asking for help to find a job.

        I need to put my foot down about this kind of thing, but I’m worried about swinging too far in the opposite direction and people’s reactions, as I’m a public face of this meetup.

    5. No Parking or Waiting*

      Asking them to leave would’ve been overkill in this situation but how should I handle this in the future?
      But making them aware that they will be asked to leave if they don’t stop badgering people for anything (like going for coffee after or getting free computer help) is important.
      These are the same people that weasel free stuff out of everyone. It’s not always someone being bad at reading social cues, it’s that victory favors the bold.
      Just like he knows he’s badgering you for help, but hey, free help is free help. He does not care if you like him, if you think he is rude, if you think he’s the worst person on earth as long as his computer gets fixed, for free.

      This is the same person who will walk to the front of the return line because he only has one thing. And make a fuss until the clerk takes him. He knows it’s wrong, but it works.

      1. Rick The Dev*

        I’m reluctant to assume that people coming to our meetups are doing so in bad faith. From my experience running this, there’s a lot of people who are great people but just happen to be a little socially deaf or somehow eccentric. And on a personal note, I don’t let myself assume that because it starts to leak out into my interactions with people, and as a public face of this organization I have to be conscious of that.

        The difficulty lies in balancing that and having a spine.

        I feel like what I should’ve said was “I don’t do that. If you’re asking me for help you’re going to have to be OK with that.” and then should’ve said “You’re weirding me out. Please leave.”

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I think you need to start using a preemptive strike.
      Lay out some basic rules for the group. One of the rules is questions are only handled at meetings or through the site, no one uses their private email for anything.
      Offer opportunities to review the site and how to use it as a group. This could be done by saying “after our meeting anyone who is interested can stay for a review of how to use our site to ask questions. Since questions will only be answered through the meetings or on the site, this review is a valuable thing.”

      When you know something is a recurring problem, it’s best to just make an upfront statement about it BEFORE you get nagged. Then that puts you in a sweet spot of saying, “Like I said in my intro we do not use our private emails here. Your choices are [insert what you want options you want them to chose from to participate in the group.]

  33. Fearful LW*

    Hi all,

    I am a long time reader, first time needing advice. I am an office manager at a toxic workplace of less than 20 people. The reason it is toxic is because of my manager, who is truly terrible and awful. It’s a long story, but I have absolutely no recourse against her.

    For a lot of good reasons I am going to be moving away, with no job lined up, to a place too far for me to still work at this job. My office is slow to move and I am worried that they will ask me to stay on part time for months to help find and train my replacement. This is what my predecessor, who moved to a different department at the same company did, and I can’t afford to do it.

    I am concerned that not staying on part time will create ill-will, especially because I am the office manager. They manage without me for vacations, and my predecessor is still at the same location, but I am worried they will be furious with me for leaving.

    Part of my worry is because of the recent reference check question, and how much emphasis commenters placed on one bad recent reference. My manager is a terrible human being, and I know, for a fact, that she will tell any reference checkers things that are not true about me. I don’t think she will tell them I am a drug addict, like what happened to a previous LW, but that she will make me out to be pretty lousy, and not someone worth hiring.

    Since I have been in the position for more than 2 years, I really have to list it on my resume. I have a coworker who would be a reference I think, but often companies say they want you to list your boss. I also have a copy of my latest review, which will be only a few months old when I leave, if all goes according to plan. My review, thanks to my boss’s “beat you down, then apologize” policy is pretty honest, and therefore good. My concern though is that they will want to talk to my boss herself.

    I guess my question is twofold.

    How should I handle it if they want me to stay on part-time?

    What should I do when I apply to places that will want to talk to my boss and get a reference from her?

    I hope this is clear and not too revealing. This place has me so worn down I am a little terrified to write in, even anonymously, for help.

    Thank you!

    1. Artemesia*

      1. ‘That won’t be possible; I won’t be available after my two week notice period is up.’

      2. ‘My last manager was very angry that I left and wanted me to continue to work part time after leaving which was not possible; I am sure that will color the kind of reference she will give. I worked previously at the Llama Co-op and Jane Tuttlesworth was my manager and can speak to the quality of my work and my dedication.’

      1. No Parking or Waiting*

        Or instead of this, you could say, nope. That’s it exactly. Honestly. Practice saying these points until you are comfortable.

    2. Wheezy Weasel*

      There is nothing you can control about your former colleagues feeling ‘furious’ about you leaving. It’s their problem to manage. Had they wished for you to stay working for the company, part time or otherwise, they’d have been treating you right in the first place. It sounds like they’ll be furious at the situation, at your boss, or just expressing their own frustration at a convenient target. Silently repeat to yourself that it’s not personal and it’s not a reflection on your quality of work. You’ve done all that you can and you’re not going to subject yourself to working part time. Then when the question comes up, exactly as Artemsia said, short and to the point “It won’t be possible, I won’t be available after my two week notice is up”.

      Regarding the reference, I know that there is a wide variety of opinions on AAM regarding references and bosses, but it’s not universally true that a new job will speak with your toxic boss. You may have lax hiring managers and it never comes up, or they may speak to your former colleagues and managers and not reach out at all. The last three jobs I’ve had have never followed up with my boss at all.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Don’t worry. You have the best reason of all, you actually ARE moving. Give them a professionally reasonable notice and don’t look back. They are your employer, they don’t OWN you.

      “I’m sorry but I am relocating to a different (city, state, etc.) and it would make too far of a commute for me to stay on until you find a replacement. I will of course tie-up any loose ends before I leave and try to make this transition as smooth as possible.”

      As Alison says, this kind of thing happens all the time. They can be furious all they want, but people move, quit, retire, and sometimes even die. It’s part of doing business to find other employees to fill roles.

      1. nonegiven*

        Don’t even say a commute would be too long, that would make it possible. Just say you are moving out of the area.

  34. Coworker Woes*

    Coworker (a peer) is, to put it bluntly, terribly. She’s been here almost 5 years and shifts around to different teams because no one knows what to do with her, but no one will get rid of her. There are 5 of us with the same position within our department and she’s the only one who literally can’t do the job.
    It’s become clear that no one is going to do anything about her performance issues. My boss has tried extra training, etc and we don’t know what else to do with her.
    I know this is not going to change, but it’s aggravating now that she’s on my team to have some work taken off my plate and delegated to her, only to have to completely re-do it again when I get it back.
    And it brings out the control freak in me because I’d rather just do it myself in the first place, rather than spending the extra time to review the work and fix it to be the way it’s supposed to be.
    My boss wants to make recommendations to upper management to give her a different role that plays to her strengths (zero ambiguity situations, etc) but it seems like that won’t happen.
    Advice on how to deal?

    1. No Parking or Waiting*

      When you get back work that you have to redo, can you take it to your boss and ask for direction?
      “I don’t feel this is usable in it’s current state. To make it usable, I think I have to redo from (state earliest part, like pulling original data). How would you like me to re do and what should I pass on to my coworkers so that I have the time to do this?”
      Then wait for an answer.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Stop redoing her work. I don’t know if that is possible, but really think about this. See if you can pass her work back to her and let the bottlenecking start.
      At this point you no longer have a coworker problem, you have an upper management problem.
      Find ways to stop protecting them,TPTB, from their own foolishness.

      1. Kathenus*

        100% agree with this, stop covering for her. As long as you and the other coworkers keep doing the work again so that it’s up to standard, management has no motivation whatsoever to fix the situation.

  35. New Job New Move*

    I’ve been reading AAM for 4-5 years, but have seldom commented. However, I just wanted to say that this week I officially accepted a new job (after a 3 month interview process). The advice and community here were very helpful as I navigated the various interview stages. I’m very excited for my new position and I’m preparing for a cross-state move to Atlanta in January! Any advice on moving to a new city for a job?

    1. Lily in NYC*

      Congrats on your new job! I moved for a job and I can’t really think of anything too helpful except to really try to get an idea of the different areas of Atlanta before you choose a new place to live. And start packing before you think you need to because it always takes longer than you expect. If you don’t know anyone in Atlanta, think about joining some “meetup.org” groups in topics that interest you.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I’ve done it several times. In two instances, the company I would be working for paid for a scouting/apt hunting trip, which helped a lot since I was unfamiliar with the areas and had few local friends/contacts. (these were coast-to-coast moves in the US)

      If that’s not an option, I’d recommend doing as much searching online as you can and make a short list of housing options that sound promising. Arrive a few weeks early to get settled and manage any household moves in case of delays with getting a place to live or delivery of the household stuff.

      One thing I wish I’d done more of was check traffic levels and rush hour issues – I managed to skirt the worst of it at my last job, but very easily could have ended up with a miserable commute.

      If it’s cross-state, you won’t have to worry about a brand new climate and the warddrobe changes that might require!

  36. Anon for this*

    How many follow-ups do you have to do before it becomes insane?

    I had to go in for surgery last week. It was an emergency and, though the timing was not ideal, it was absolutely necessary. I can’t believe I have to justify my surgery in this way, but this just goes to show how awful work is being about this. I did everything I could to make sure things would run smoothly while I was out recovering. I scheduled my mountain of tasks, met with everyone who needed to contribute, sent several follow-up emails, and did face-to-face check-ins on my last day in. I wrote out a list of everything that was scheduled to happen for my bosses and let them know how each task was being accomplished while I was gone (i.e. scheduled ahead of time, coworker is going to do x and then send, etc.). I thought, I guess mistakenly, that I had done enough to make sure that these tasks got done.

    Look, I know it’s a busy time at work and there’s lots going on for everyone, but I’m being thrown under the bus. People are seriously asking why I couldn’t edit something while high on painkillers, or why I couldn’t provide feedback while I was in surgery. I’m being blamed for missing deadlines that weren’t even mine to miss. I’ve now become the office scapegoat for everything that hasn’t gone right for the past few weeks and I’m so sick of it. I’m not the manager of my department, but the manager I do have is completely incompetent and disengaged, so I guess their job is now my job too? I guess the things that logically went awry because of lack of information from the top are my fault too? I’m being shamed in front of outside collaborators for my “failures.” I even had some people make light of/make fun of my swelling and stitches, including laughing when one popped. I left work in tears yesterday. I worked so hard to make sure that everything would be on track. I can’t believe I have to say this, but it’s not my fault that I needed emergency surgery. Is there anything I could’ve done to make sure that things went smoother? I just have a really hard time believing that this is all my fault and that their behaviour in this situation is okay.

    1. SarahKay*

      Wow. Your co-workers are truly horrible people. I was reading in horrified disbelief even *before* I got to the bit where someone laughed (WTF?!?) at your stitch popping.

      There is nothing more you could have done to make sure things went more smoothly. This is absolutely *not* your fault, and their behaviours are so far outside okay it’s just absurd. I don’t know if you have a useful HR department – if so I would certainly suggest making a complaint about the mockery of your swelling and stitches. If not – start job-searching now, because this is appalling.

      Oh, and for context – two years ago I needed an outpatient surgery to the back of my head leaving me with a shaved patch and stitches. No-one, but no-one laughed at me, the most I got was comments along the lines of “Gosh, SarahKay, that looks sore, are you sure you’re okay to be back at work?” My work was covered on the day I was out and my manger was amazed to see me back at my desk the next day (I felt fine, so why not) and triple-checked with me that I really felt well enough to be back and encouraged me to make it a short day. As far as I’m concerned this is what office behaviour *should* look like. Your workplace is horrible, and I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through all that.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        All of this. Your coworkers are disgusting people, and you need to start considering all of your options.

    2. Murphy*

      Um, no. You’re fine. Your office is horrible.

      This is not nearly that bad, but I held multiple meetings with two of my co-workers and left a document with clear instructions while I was in maternity leave (“If someone emails you asking X, check for that HERE…”) And my boss had to call me while I was on leave to find out the status of something that would have taken two seconds for someone else to look up if they’d bothered to check my instructions.

    3. LCL*

      None of it was your fault, and their behavior is not OK. Really, you shouldn’t have to explain at all. If you feel like engaging them use my favorite technique for dealing with the clueless which is to repeat their questions and suggestions back to them, and ask them to explain. Like, ‘should I edit a document when I am swacked on painkillers?’ “are you suggesting I should have had the doctor stop the surgery so I could answer work questions? How would that work?’ ‘Please explain why my swelling and stitches are funny to you, because I am not seeing any humor in this’.

      But you shouldn’t have to explain, the more direct route is the better choice in this case. “I had emergency surgery, I handled things the best I could given the circumstances.” Repeat every time someone starts blaming you.

    4. Mints*

      Oh god that’s so terrible. I hope you’re job hunting, and I hope people in your personal life were kind

    5. Elizabeth West*

      Holy crap. Even BullyBoss at OldExjob didn’t say a damn word when I had to be out because of gallbladder surgery. Your coworkers are the WORST. Their behavior is not in the least okay.

    6. Fuzzy pickles*

      It’s not okay. I went through a less nasty version of what you’re describing where I broke my foot and my useless animal of a co-worker made callous jokes about me, to me in a meeting with other co-workers.

      It’s not okay. It’s not your fault. And you should leave first chance you get.

    7. This Daydreamer*

      I’m blown away by how much you were capable of doing. I, just, seriously, what is wrong with these people? Did they need you to draw a map to the printer, order coffee and lunch for the whole office, make sure someone ordered enough sticky notes, create a laminated poster explaining how to use Google, and make individual wake up calls every morning for each member of the team? It’s going to take less than three hours for that place to go to hell in a handbasket when you make your escape. You had EMERGENCY SURGERY. If it had been me, I would probably remember to tell them I was having the surgery and wish them luck while I was gone.

    8. Kathenus*

      Agree with all of yesterday’s comments on this. If you happen to check back today and see this, you might want to consider putting together an email to your manager and to your grandboss or whoever is appropriate at a higher level. Describe all of the preparations you made for people to have the information needed before your surgery so there’s a written record of all the steps you took to help the organization be prepared to cover while you were out. Then, if you’re comfortable doing so, mention that since returning you are getting negative feedback from many levels about things that didn’t get done when you were not there and were not responsible for them. This may not change anything, but it will at least generate a paper trail documenting the steps you took and the unfair negative consequences you’re now enduring. I’m sorry you work with jerks.

    9. Anion*

      Jesus. What a bunch of inhumans you work with.

      There is NOTHING more that you could have done, and IMO these people are the lowest sort of scum for doing this to you. This was NOT your fault. (FFS, when I had to have emergency surgery, my husband’s work basically told him to come back when he was ready/I was feeling better and didn’t say another word about work he was missing or anything; they didn’t even ask when he might be back until I’d been home from the hospital for about a week, which means three weeks after the surgery, and they let him work a shortened schedule for almost a month after he did return–and they weren’t exactly the most caring workplace in the world, either, but there are some things that are more important. [I mention this to hopefully help demonstrate that the problem is the evil ficks you work for/with, not you, and that NO, their behavior is NOT okay.])

      Especially when you’re not even the manager! And they blame YOU instead of the incompetent tool who should have been the one making sure your work was covered etc.? I’m so furious on your behalf right now that I’m having a very hard time not just going off on a name-calling tirade.

      Please start looking for another job as soon as you feel able to. You do NOT deserve this, at all. And in the meantime, maybe it would help a little to think of this as a sociological experiment about what happens when you put a bunch of hideous semi-humans in one office together? And when they’re awful, pretend you’re writing a report on your experiment, something like, “The crab-people failed yet again to mimic normal human empathy and emotion in a situation where domestic pets would have at least sensed the need for both. It’s clear this project will not be a success world-wide, and we must start on developing Crab-People Mark II for further testing.”

      I don’t know. I’m honestly having a hard time thinking of any way to mitigate this, I’m so shocked and angry.

      NOT your fault.

      NOT okay.

      Please take care of yourself and ignore them as much as you can, because you don’t need stress when you’re trying to recover.

  37. Stella*

    Hi all. I’ve just this week started a new job. The team of 6 will be going for christmas lunch next week- they have already booked me a place. The thing is the resturant is quite expensive and I can’t really afford it so I don’t know what to do. My last wage from my previous job barely covered my rent (1 of my 2 reasons for leaving was the low pay) and I won’t get paid from new job until the end of December. I’m completely torn because I feel bad if I don’t attend the very first work socialising opportunity but also can’t afford it! Any advice?

    PS Congrats Alison on the book!

    1. peachie*

      Are you sure the company isn’t covering it? Many organizations set aside a small budget for this kind of thing.

      1. Stella*

        Nope, we have to pay for everything, it’s just for our team as opposed to the rest of our department.

    2. Artemesia*

      “I have just started and haven’t received a paycheck yet, I just can’t afford to do this. Why don’t I cover the phones and I’ll join in next year.” Then don’t let co-workers pay for you. “that is so sweet of you but it would make me feel like I was taking advantage; I’m happy to stay back this time and I hope I can join you for an event soon.”

    3. StrikingFalcon*

      Don’t feel bad. Just politely decline and let them know that it’s not because you don’t want to get to know them.

      It sounds like you expect you would be able to do this sort of thing in the future, so a possible script: “I’m sorry, I would really love to go, but [since I just changed jobs things are tight for me right now/it’s not in my budget right now], so I just can’t make it work this time. Let me know next time there’s a lunch outing though!”

  38. Folklorist*

    This is your, “Hi-it’s-been-a-while” ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!!! Go and do something you’re putting off and come back and brag about it!

    I’m going to fill out some travel expense forms. Ugh.

    1. Achieving new levels of tiredness*

      Finally finished a big step in my thesis work! I’m a little worried about this next meeting with my advisor since I’m still not where I need to be with my work, but I am proud that I got this chunk of it done.

    3. Mockingjay*

      Compiling the very long list of action items from a multi-day meeting with our customer; then executing said actions…

      (This week was exhausting. I want a nap. )

  39. Opalescent Tree Shark*

    I don’t know if I am looking for advice or just want to freak out to people who will understand.

    I reached out to my old grandboss a couple weeks ago to chat about my career path, as I am feeling about ready to move on from my current job. She and I had a great relationship and she knows approximately everyone in my industry, so I knew she would be able to give me guidance. Well, I didn’t expect it to turn out the way it did. We emailed back in forth a couple of times and then asked if she could call me last night. She told me that she had just accepted a new job (C-Level I think) on the other side of the country and they are looking for a new associate director and would I be interested. The job sounded like the perfect next step for me career wise, but I am not sure about moving to that state, but I said I would be interested. She told me to expect a call from the director and he called me literally 20 minutes later! I was definitely not prepared, but he was very nice and offered to connect with me on LinkedIn so I could ask him any questions I had about the position. He sent me a LinkedIn message an hour later that included a link to apply for the position.

    I have never been in this position before! I am used to desperately searching for jobs and hoping I can get one that pays me a living wage and has benefits. I’ve never been sought after before and I don’t know how to handle it. Most of the questions I have for him are things that I would typically ask in an interview. Is it ok to ask them now even though I haven’t even applied yet?

    1. Tableau Wizard*

      I’d pick one or two to open up the conversation about what exactly the job is. Don’t go into all the specifics of “What would someone need to be successful in this role?” or “What is the benefits package like?”. But he probably wants you to ask about the job, or he wouldn’t have connected with you.

      Also – yay! Did you submit your application yet?

      1. Opalescent Tree Shark*

        I have not. It’s all happening so quickly and I want to write a nice cover letter. I am also not entirely sure what tack to take with the cover letter. I guess focus mostly on why I would excel in the role and not about why I want to work for this particular organization?

        1. Tableau Wizard*

          I’m certainly not the cover letter expert, but I think you could include both why you’d excel as well as why you’d be excited to work for that organization specifically.

          I would recommend trying to match their pace as much as you can. If they’re moving quickly reaching out to you, you don’t want them to wait while you add the last 2% to your cover letter.

  40. Jimbo*

    Question for folks who work in membership associations. Are you a member of a society for association professionals such as ASAE? Do you pay out of pocket for membership or do you have your employer pay your membership? I took a look at the membership for these groups and they range from over $150 up to $325 for an individual membership. Do you find the price worth it? I intend to use membership primarily for networking and to become active in their online community of practitioners, specifically for people with my skillset (technology and digital) and also for the resource library.
    I am unemployed at the moment so will need to pay out of pocket for a 1 year membership. I’ve never joined a professional society for the association world before. I am targeting jobs in associations and want to maximize networking opportunities with people in that field. Trying to decide if the investment of up to $325 is worth it.

    1. peachie*

      I’m not but a few people in my organization are. I think my organization pays for it, but I’m not sure. If they do, I would consider joining–membership-based associations are such a different beast, and I think the access to the online community + the conference discounts might be worth it. I’d be curious to hear others’ thoughts, though.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      I can’t tell if you only want to hear from employees of associations or just people who are in them – am in the latter group and my employer pays for a group membership for my team.

      Lots of associations will have a lower joining fee for people who are unemployed so you should ask about that.

      1. Jimbo*

        Thanks! I just called ASAE and they didn’t have a lower-priced membership fee for unemployed folks. It will be $325 for them. Just to clarify, I want to join a group like ASAE because it is the “association for associations” and the networking opportunities in my mind seems to be the best way to develop a network quickly and get active with communities of practice with folks who already work in the association world.

    3. Goya*

      Our company pays for a few memberships, but not all. If it’s a company/business related group, they’ll pay or at least chip in, but if it’s more of a networking/personal thing, you’re on your own.

    5. Overeducated*

      I am currently a member of 3 professional associations because I have a funding source for two and the annual meetings are in my city this year. The third has a low rate for early career professionals ($45) that I can pay out of pocket. I really don’t think they’re worth paying for every year without work funding, the only benefit worth the $$ is going to the annual meetings but those have additional financial and time costs and are not always possible. Getting the quarterly publiactions is not worth hundreds of dollars.

  41. Hopeful Data Geek*

    I’m so excited about something and I can’t really share it with anyone in my actual life.

    I started a new job in April – something that seemed perfect – a super short commute, exactly what I wanted to do, a department with a good growth path. Things hit the fan when a new leader was hired about 2 weeks after I was. My job was dramatically different within 3 months and moral has hit an all-time low on what used to be a super engaged team.

    Along the way, I’ve made a name for myself and made some valuable connections. There’s someone in the organization who’s starting a huge initiative that would make great use of some of my skills and he has written a position for me to transfer into his group. It’s a pretty great feeling to have proven my value so quickly and have people go out of their way for me like this.

    I’ve got to wait out a few more months before I can transfer, but i’ve got a light at the end of the tunnel. yay!

  42. CCF*

    Someone who sits near me has had 11 medical emergencies over the last few months. (Yes, we’re counting.) Each time is the same routine: they collapse at their desk, their coworker calls 911, EMTs arrive to assist, the person is taken out to an ambulance, and then they return 30-60 minutes later to continue their workday like it’s no big deal. The next 10-15 minutes are sort of like a social event for them and their team. “We’re so glad you’re back. Are you feeling ok now? Haha, I can’t believe that happened again.” And the person seems to enjoy the attention.

    It’s super awkward for everyone else. But since it’s a medical thing, nobody pipes up about it being awkward. Here’s what I’m wondering: is there anything that can be said about this without coming across as wildly inappropriate?

    1. Coworker Woes*

      What?! It’s really bizarre that this person comes back within an hour if they’re taken away in an ambulance. Maybe the supervisor can tell the person to take the rest of the day off and rest, then it wouldn’t be such a weird thing the next morning?

          1. Ramona Flowers*

            I realised I’m bristling at this because I have narcolepsy and used to collapse a lot. I would have been pretty upset if someone kept count as to how often it happened. I think I need to walk away from this conversation as I’m sounding too judgemental but please, stop and remember that this isn’t happening to you.

              1. Kj*

                I suspect it is awkward because everyone is freaking out because of the collapse, 911, ambulance and then it is like nothing happened and the co-worker is back. I’d be pretty concerned and very anxious when the next collapse might occur! I would also be worried that the co-worker might die at work or be really seriously hurt next time. I think some conditions, like narcolepsy, would not give me that reaction, but I would want to know why I shouldn’t be freaking out- yet you can’t ask because then you are prying into their medical status. It would be very hard for co-workers in this situation. The person collapsing is obviously the most impacted, but presumably he/she has the best info about what is going on and if it is really dangerous. I would also question my boss lets them (or worse, makes them) return to work the same day they were taken away by 911- I would be worried about unreasonable expectations by management and about management’s judgment.

                1. Ramona Flowers*

                  None of that means someone else needs to treat it as an awkward experience they are having. You can, but it’s not objectively so.

                2. CCF*

                  Yes, exactly. They’re stretchered out to a waiting ambulance and then they’re back within an hour like “Huh, just one of those things.” It’s raised a few eyebrows around the office. And most of us know what the condition is because we’ve heard EMTs talk about it. It’s not uncommon and most people with it don’t need emergency assistance for it every other week or so. This may be a worse case than others, though.

                  Also, this person’s manager is at a different location. I am sure they are alerted when it happens, but I do not believe they have ever been here for it. So that may play a role too.

                3. Kj*

                  Maybe awkward is the wrong word- I would not find this situation awkward, but worrying. This is pretty concerning on the face of it- maybe the other person is impacted by a simple condition and the collapse is NBD, but loss of consciousness is medically concerning on its face- which we all know, since 911 was called. They should not harass the collapsing co-worker about it, but should seek help from management about how to address this. If nothing else, I would be very worried when working with the co-worker- what if we had to drive somewhere together? What if her job involves something where collapsing could put her at risk? I realize this is not the OP’s problem to solve, but this impacts the OP.

            2. Who cares?*

              Do u need an ambulance every time? Doesn’t this cost money in the US? It does in my country.

        2. Coworker Woes*

          Well that’s fair, but maybe there’s a reason they feel like they have to return to work as fast as they can?
          It just seems unusual to me that they would return to work an hour after collapsing and getting medical attention.
          Guess it’s not really for the OP to solve or feel awkward about, though.

      2. CCF*

        Their manager is not at this location. I’m sure they are alerted when it happens, but I do not believe they have ever been here when it’s happened.

        1. fposte*

          Can you clarify what the problem is you’re trying to solve here? If it’s just that it’s awkward, I think that the team’s response deals with it pretty well, and that you can just decide it’s not awkward on your own.

    2. Bad Candidate*

      I don’t know, but I had a coworker that was kind of like that, but she wouldn’t come back. In fact she would be out for a month or so, usually right before a large project started. It happened several times. I honestly think she did it for the attention but also to get out of doing any hard work.

    3. fposte*

      I get that’s a weird thing to sit near, but what would you by trying to make happen by saying something? It sounds like she’s got something that regularly requires emergency attention and that her team has developed a routine around it. It seems like it’s a pretty compassionate and sane routine in a difficult circumstance. Is it disrupting your work to a point that you need to talk to a manager? Then I’d talk to the manager but not to the sick person.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      What is it you think could be said?

      You could be talking about a colleague of mine, except they have epilepsy and we all know not to call an ambulance unless the seizure continues beyond a certain amount of time.

      What is it you think could be said or done? It’s not your business to know why this is happening. I’m sure if they were bogus callouts they would have been blacklisted or something. Their private medical information isn’t yours to know.

      And please, don’t assume they enjoy it. They might be laughing off the fact that they fall awkward. Or maybe they do. But that’s not really any of your business.

      2. Anon Accountant*

        Thank you 10000000% percent for posting this. Not to derail but I have epilepsy and my coworkers know the exact same thing. I laugh it off to ease their discomfort and to ease some of my tension also. It’s anything but enjoyable.

        Private medical information should definitely be kept confidential. Thank you so much for posting this response.

      3. CCF*

        I have no idea what could be said or done. That’s why I am throwing the question out there.

        I know what their condition is because I’ve overhead the EMTs talking about it. It’s easily manageable. The person just seems to not be doing a great job with it.

        1. fposte*

          Well, it’s likely it’s not that easily manageable for her, because she’s not managing it.

          You’re free to privately think that she’s bad at diabetes or whatever and to be annoyed by her, but you’re not giving any reason for this to be an actionable work situation. The disruption seems minor, and the manager knows.

          1. Kj*

            At my work, EMTs coming is not minor- we have a procedure to assign someone to greet them, direct them to the right location and give over emergency info on the person who is ill. It isn’t an all day thing, but due to the nature of my work, we also have to write incident reports when this sort of thing happens. It takes time and is disruptive. EMTs are for pretty extreme circumstances and I get anxious when I see them- I can easily see the office as a whole being upset about this.

            1. Kj*

              I’m going to add that this is not the person who collapses fault in any way- but it is human to be anxious about people collapsing and many people have had hard experiences when EMTs were called so it might bring up trauma for others as well. We can have compassion for the person collapsing and for the co-workers impacted by it at the same time. And I think co-workers have the right to talk to their manager and say that they are very concerned and would like re-assurance that the collapsing person is OK and maybe a procedure about what to do when this happens again. They don’t have a right to private medical info BUT if someone is likely to faint at work, I want to know what I should do about it if I find them on the floor! I mean, of course call 911, but from a work perspective what documentation is needed?

              1. fposte*

                If that’s the issue for you than you ask your manager what’s needed. That doesn’t seem to be the OP’s issue, though.

            2. Ramona Flowers*

              “I can easily see the office as a whole being upset about this.“

              I would urge you to stop projecting your own feelings into everyone else. I’m sure ambulances have been called for my colleague a few times and it would never occur to me to think everyone else might be upset by that and not just upset for them. You know it’s not life threatening as you know what the drill is already, right? And it sounds like people right near them do know what to do. Unless you are personally the one writing the incident report I don’t think you do need all these details.

              From what you’ve said it sounds like the ambulance may be bringing up personal trauma for you. If that is the case I urge you to talk to someone, eg an EAP, as that sounds difficult. But it is not objectively distressing for the entire office.

              1. Kj*

                Right now, you are accusing me of projecting feelings on to others- but you are doing the same, assuming everyone is easy-breezy about this. I want you to understand I don’t think everyone is distressed by this- but some surely are, just like some do not care. Why do you have such as investment in everyone saying “oh, well, just another day for collapsing co-worker! No need to worry this happened in the past! No concern about it happening in the future! She’ll be fine!” And maybe she will be. But she might not be. And it is fair for people to care about her and be impacted by this. Both can be true. I’ve REPEATEDLY SAID that OP should not bother the co-worker about this, but might need to consult her manager with her concerns.

                And I’m not saying I need details. I’m not the OP. But I see the concerns with a co-worker collapsing on the regular. Sorry if that is offensive to you.

            3. fposte*

              But the OP’s concern is with the response when the person comes back; I wasn’t clear if she thought 10 minutes was so much as to be disruptive or not enough.

              1. CCF*

                No, my concern is with the whole situation. When it happened last week, one EMT walked in and asked a coworker if they knew if the person had taken their medication recently because the last times that same EMT was here it turned out they hadn’t. Yet I can’t really drop by their desk and say, “Hey, take your med today.” I’m not their doctor or their mother. The attention party afterward is just icing on top.

                1. Ramona Flowers*

                  EMTs ask whoever is there because they need information in a hurry.

                  I really think you need to try to disengage.

                2. fposte*

                  Right, but you’re still not saying what you want to have happen (beyond the understandable wish that it would all go away). Do you want the manager to provide guidelines for you and/or your co-workers in these situations? Then bring that up to the manager. Do you find the response to her return disruptive to your work? Then ask your manager for some help on remove yourself from the area or putting on headphones. Do you want the co-worker to take her medication or behave differently so the EMTs don’t come in the first place? That’s out of your reach and you have to let that go (unless you’re really close, which it doesn’t sound like you are).

        2. Ramona Flowers*

          Unless you are their doctor you are not qualified to judge how well they are or should be managing it.

          What is your definition of easily manageable?

          There isn’t anything you can or should do about this situation. You are not their manager. It is not your problem.

        3. Not a Real Giraffe*

          Here’s the thing, I get where you are coming from. You coworker presumably has the ability to control a medical condition that disrupts your office regularly, but doesn’t. So you’re annoyed whenever it happens because maybe it doesn’t actually have to be happening. It’s awkward for you because it’s not how you would be handling the situation if you were your coworker.

          But you’re not your coworker. You don’t know why your coworker isn’t handling it the way you would, but there’s probably a reason for it. It’s easy to pass judgement in this situation, but I encourage you not to. Maybe you coworker likes the attention, but probably not. It’s expensive to be taken somewhere via ambulance once, muchless regularly. It’s probably completely mortifying to your coworker to have become “that” person in the office. Please, please try to replace your feelings of awkwardness with understanding and compassion.

          1. nonegiven*

            If they return 30-60 minutes later, are they even being transported? Could they have been checked out in the ambulance and possibly treated, refused transport, and then gone back to work? Every hospital ER visit I’ve been along for took way longer than that, without any collapse or loss of consciousness.

      1. fposte*

        I’m not sure it makes a difference to the response. Even if your coworker is Fakey McMalinger, there’s no value and a lot of downside in a coworker’s interrogating the situation.

        1. Lily in NYC*

          I kind of want to know this too because I couldn’t tell if the OP was insinuating that the guy is faking.

      2. CCF*

        It seems genuine. This person is sort of pale anyway, but they look ghost-white when this happens. I don’t really know how one would fake that.

        1. Lily in NYC*

          Then you need to let it go. I don’t understand what you expect this person to do. This is definitely an MYOB situation.

          1. CCF*

            I expect this person to not die at work. But they seem confident that passing out biweekly will not be detrimental to their health, so I guess I shouldn’t care.

    6. Traveling Teacher*

      Wow, that’s truly strange… Is it possible that calling 911 is overreacting? Maybe there’s something that can be done in-office instead? I sometimes faint because of a non-life-threatening medical issue. (Once in front of a roomful of children!) It looks frightening, but it’s actually no big deal. My school was legally obligated to call emergency services, and I assume it’s the same here, but it sounds like it could start to get embarrassing for this person if they’ve got something similar to me that doesn’t need emergency assistance.

      1. fposte*

        I don’t think even a manager can appropriately tell somebody they shouldn’t call an ambulance if they want to, though, and certainly a co-worker shouldn’t go anywhere near that.

    7. Sunshine Brite*

      I think that you could ask your manager for HR to work with the person to come up with a safety plan related to these incidents and if 911 is the recommended and their wishes then continue with that.

      1. WellRed*

        I like this. I also don’t understand why people are so upset with the person asking the question. Collapsing regularly at work, to the point of needing an ambulance is pretty unusual. I can see where that’s distracting and/or upsetting for coworkers.
        I say this as someone with a serious medical condition.

        1. As Close As Breakfast*

          I don’t understand it either. I get that there are different perspectives, but one of them is surely that this is a dramatic and distracting thing to have happen at work even once! I say this as someone that doesn’t have a medical condition that could cause this type of event and does not currently/has not in the past worked with a coworker experiencing these type frequent medical events.

        2. Ramona Flowers*

          I reacted badly to the question because of the counting and the judging of whether someone else’s medical condition should be easier to manage.

          The counting is bad and needs to stop.

    8. Yorick*

      You shouldn’t do anything about the coworker, but maybe you can talk to your manager about ways to minimize how distracting this is for you.

    9. BA*

      We had someone at my last office who did something similar. A few people had posted instructions on what to do WHEN (not if) Fergus collapsed. This really helped everything because while it was still an emergency (and we called EMTs) no one really panicked and we knew we were handling things the way Fergus wanted us to. That could be a way to present it to your boss, making sure the person is taken care of how they want to be.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      Speaking as a person who has assisted with many seizures, heart attacks etc., I think it is very normal to want a set plan in place for what to do and what is expected from everyone working in the area of ANY injured or unconscious person. It is fine to ask, “If I see an injured or unconscious person, what are my responsibilities as far as the company is concerned?”
      Perhaps your boss needs to have someone designed to do first aid training and be the contact or go-to first aid person when someone (ANYone) is injured or unconscious.
      A report should be filed every time an event happens. If an ambulance is called that should be part of the record.

      I have to say, I have caught people faking medical events. Not often. My guess is that 99% of the time the event is real. But there are a few who will fake it.
      The only consoling thing I ever came up with is, “It’s their life. They can do as they see best. Eventually fakers get found out and there is fall out when that happens.”

      If you honestly believe this person is doing it to seek attention (highly, highly UNLIKELY but not impossible) then why not go the opposite way. When the person seems to be doing okay and working along THEN give the person the most of your attention. Reward the positive.

      So you may have an obligation to report that they have passed out again or having other difficulties. Do what the company and your own ethics demand of you. But put in your best effort to have positive interactions during ordinary times.

      I want to be super-super clear here. You are walking a very fine line. We don’t know what it is we don’t know. And sometimes we are commanded to give of ourselves and our time in ways that we do not understand and we never will understand. There have been times where all I could say is, “Do I absolutely need to understand why I must do X Thing?” And the answer is: No, I don’t, it’s just up to me to do what seems necessary to do.

  43. Frustrated grad applicant*

    Vented here about two weeks ago and I want to vent again. In my early 30s, applying for PhD programs. This has been a hard semester, I’ve sacrificed a lot to make the applications good, and it is *so stinkin’ hard* to be turning in all the application with the chaotic tax code stuff going on in the background. Just Wednesday I went from turning in one application to calling my senators and pleading with their voice mail to not tax tuition remission for graduate students (and generally, not vote for the tax code anyway). I just feel so discouraged that I spent all this time on applications, that I said No to lots of other things that were important and good (family stuff, health/personal stuff, teaching stuff) to do this, and now it may all be for naught. Aaaaaargh.

    Okay, end rant.

    1. Artemesia*

      The major reason for this is to inconvenience and hurt smart people like you who just think you are so hot and getting a PhD and all. At least that is how it feels to me, as the money is not huge (except for the students who are to be burdened) I think it is appropriate to feel enraged but I would expect any help to come from the university which will have to figure out a way to pay students to cover the taxes if they are to have programs. The people writing a tax bill to help billionaires and destroy social security don’t care about you.

      1. Frustrated grad applicant*

        I’ll get to the part where I look to the university for help later. Right now I’m just. so. angry. about this. I get that they don’t care about me, but it doesn’t mean that I’m not upset.

      2. Yorick*

        Unfortunately, I don’t think universities will find a way around this, at least not most of them. Already, a lot of PhD students have wealthy families who can contribute to their finances, and this law will just make those the only ones who can pursue graduate school. It’s really unfortunate.

        Frustrated grad applicant, besides calling your senators, there’s nothing for you to do right now. Just continue applying. If this part of the tax code passes, you can decide then whether you should pursue graduate school or change your plans.

        1. Student*

          I think there are lots of programs that will step in and help as much as they can, if for no other reason than because it’s much cheaper than the alternative. Grad students are extremely cheap labor, relative to their skill sets, and they allow professors to bring in large government grants to the university. The willingness of the university to step in will likely be proportional to the “going rate” of similar labor, so it’ll be discipline-specific.

          You have to realize what an amazing deal universities get on grad labor. In STEM disciplines, they are easily getting $75k – $90k workers (with virtually no legal liabilities since it doesn’t count as “work” under the law, no payroll taxes, no retirement benefits, low overhead costs) for the low price of $20k per year salary. If they have to up that to $25k per year to cover the extra tax liability, they are still getting a grad deal on labor, and they’d be fools to walk away from it. They’ll lay off post-docs (normal employees at ~$50k salary per year, similar potential “real” salary range of $75k-$90k in STEM) well before they reduce grad student numbers.

          There’s also the loan industry. I suspect this is a special-interest hand-out to them. You, too, can take out a grad student loan specifically to pay the tax liability on your tuition waiver! Hurrah!

          The potential tax rule change for grad students is extremely cruel, even if universities step up to pay it. I know I would’ve struggled mightily with it in my grad school days.

          1. Yorick*

            I don’t think they’ll lose graduate students. There will be a smaller number of applicants who can’t afford to be taxed on the tuition waiver, so the cohorts will be made up of wealthier students.

            I’m sure there will be some universities or other institutions who try to minimize the damage in order to maintain some diversity in graduate student populations. But I’m not sure that it will be most universities or enough to really help.

            I agree the rule change is awful. I was barely able to afford grad school anyway, and this would have made it impossible for me.

            1. Student*

              It’s possible things have changed dramatically since I went to grad school, but: when I went, there weren’t a bunch of already-wealthy people applying and losing out to other students. They’re already accepting all such people. They’re accepting a pretty large percentage of people who apply. I’m sure this is not the case at a handful of elite universities, but it was generally true that there was more demand across the country for grad students than supply. They are an incredible deal on labor, and most of them could make more in the short term by applying elsewhere. I’d expect this shortage of grad students is exacerbated by the high employment rate in the US at the moment. It’s not, broadly, like undergrad programs, where there are tons of applicants for every open position.

              At my university, when I was in grad school, there were multiple years where my grad program accepted all applicants. When they rejected applicants, it was more about serious concerns about their ability to complete the program. They arguably accepted many students with low chances of completing the program that would’ve lost out if there were more qualified applicants in the pool.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      You have so much sympathy from me. My partner is a doctoral student right now. We’re lucky because he only has 1.5 years left, he goes to a state university and he’s established residency. He said last night that he hopes he gets enough in grants next year to cover the tax burden, but that’s a pretty rough hope. I feel terrible for all the first- and second-years in his program. My fingers are crossed hard for you!

    3. SolidarityforGradStudents*

      I am totally with you on this. If I also see one more person posting about lazy millennials getting useless PhDs I’m gonna just scream.

      My husband would be slammed by this (fortunately, he’s defending in June) as would his colleagues. My husband’s research and field is literally an engineering discipline that goes into Navy designs and saves thousands and thousands of sailor’s lives. He says they’re going to completely cripple engineering research in this country.

  44. Turkletina*

    Next week, I’m giving a 15-minute presentation to a bunch of high schoolers as part of a Careers in Computer Science week. These are students at a specialized math and science high school, and I’m doing the presentation in part because I’m an alumna who got a PhD in humanities and now works in the tech industry. My work isn’t really “computer science” in the narrow sense — I’m not a software developer or anything like that. My job is half project management and half data manipulation.

    Has anyone given a presentation like this before? Any tips on pitching a short presentation to (a) high school students or (b) people who might be inclined to question the usefulness of a humanities background in a tech career?

    1. Ghost Town*

      My job is to recruit liberal arts and sciences majors to specialized master’s degrees, including information systems, so I have a bit of experience in the why humanities is relevant to a tech career, albeit to a college crowd. My email should be linked in my username if you want to chat off-AAM.

      Very generally speaking, diversity of background means a diversity of perspective. When working on teams to confront bus/tech problems, being able to assess the issue from multiple perspectives helps the team to come up with new and innovative solutions that a purely business or tech team may not have seen. Also, a lot of those “soft skills,” like writing, crafting a persuasive argument, ability to research, and communication skills that can be harder to quantify make these students valuable team members.

    2. Pineapple Incident*

      I imagine that a lot of these kids haven’t thought about their futures all that much. I know plenty of people who went to the math and science high school who learned cool skills there but ended up following a totally unrelated career path. I think you’ve got a real opportunity here to open up their minds beyond the traditional “you know computers, you should code for software development!” track since you do something different. Maybe you can speak to your role and others that use data science, programming and other tech-related skills that aren’t strictly limited to those things.

    3. Artemesia*

      Can you start with an anecdote from your work that vividly shows how your background adds value to this field?

    4. AnotherJill*

      I’ve got degrees in Psychology and Computer Science. Before that I was an X-Ray Technician and former art major.

      I’ve given similar talks and did a sort of how I decided what I wanted to be talk – I talked about what things drew me to computer science/technology and what I found interesting about what I did. I also talked about how it’s okay to change your mind and take some time to decide what really interests you.

    5. OtterB*

      My work involves statistics about doctorates and career paths in computer science. We often distinguish between core “computer science” and the larger field of “computing” which includes many interdisciplinary approaches. The tack I would take with students like this is that careers in computing are much broader than just coding. If they like core computer science and want to write compilers and operating systems, great! But if their strongest interests lie elsewhere, then computer science is a useful adjunct to almost anything these days.

      On average (not, of course, true for all individuals) women and members of underrepresented groups are more interested in work that connects with other people and lets them apply technical knowledge to serving their communities. Which means that giving these students a broader view of the field can help keep them in it.

      1. Tessera Member 042 (formerly GTA)*

        Echoing OtterB here that it would be good to emphasize that computing careers take all sorts of skills, from the scientific and computational to the design & humanities! In my experience as a high school teacher, students don’t often know specific careers within a larger field, nor what a job really “looks like” on a day to day basis, so those might be things to talk about.

    6. Mints*

      When I was in high school, I liked hearing about how people made their choices, more than the details of the work. I also liked hearing about what they liked about their job, but not the real duties
      “I wanted a stable job” “I wanted to make the most money” “I liked being creative but still wanted an office job” “I like traveling and talking to people”

      (Actually, what stuck with me was the person who talked about how she started out with something boring to pay the bills, then you wiggle in that job to what you’re good at, and keep wiggling, until you end up doing exactly what you want to do. Alison says something similar in the “What can you not stop doing?” post)

    7. Gloucesterina*

      Turkletina, what a cool opportunity! Maybe if you want to introduce some interaction, you could open by asking what students think a computer science or technology job involves (if you like this basic idea, you can also tell them you’ll wait until at least 3 hands are up to invite them to share their thoughts, so that you’re sure to get a few responses on the table). Based on what the students come up with, you can affirm or contrast what your role is like.

      I also wonder if the students will know what doing a Phd (in any field) is like, so if you can describe that process a bit that could be really engaging as part of narrating your career story, especially for students who may be the first in their families to attend college.

  45. GG Two shoes*

    I’m kind of bummed this week. I applied at a company and had a phone interview and a in-person 2 ½ hour interview a week later. I was told I had one of the best coverletters they had ever seen (both the hiring manager and the manager told me separately) and I felt like I really clicked with the manager. She even said that she could see me for another position at the company as well. She encouraged me to follow-up as they are in a huge growth period and hiring a lot right now.
    I sent emails to both after the interview as a thank you and per the advice from here, waited two weeks, this Monday (two weeks after in-person interview and after the holiday) to follow up. I haven’t heard anything. I’m getting discouraged, and I know I need to temper my expectations, not take it personally, understand that things get behind, etc. but I’m losing steam.

    Just wanted to vent. Any words of wisedom?

    1. Jadelyn*

      As you know, hiring takes several times as long as people think it does from the candidate side of things.

      Especially during the holidays – they might want you to do a second interview with someone else who’s on vacation. They might need to debrief with someone about your interview, who’s on vacation right now. They might need an approval to move forward and haven’t been able to pin down the Very Busy Executive long enough to get a yes or no out of them (I can’t tell you how many times that’s been a problem for me).

      And it’s not just the holidays – it’s year-end, which in a lot of companies and for a lot of functions is an enormously busy time.

      I’m supporting a recruiting process that’s been put on the back burner for a couple weeks, and I had to let the candidates know that. The reason for the hold? It’s for the commercial lending team, and they just got a couple of very deadline-intensive projects laid on them so they’re focused on that right now rather than hiring. Stuff like that happens all the time in hiring.

      I know it’s less than pleasant to hear, but you just gotta be patient. I tell my friends who are job searching, take whatever timeline they give you for when you should hear back, and double it – at least. Maybe triple it, during the holidays.

      1. GG Two shoes*

        You are right, of course. It was moving very quickly, but I’m just afraid they didn’t like me nearly as much as I liked them. I’m really afraid I sort of, “read the room” incorrectly. It’s a very desirable company and its a newly created position right up my alley, I’m just losing confidence. I’m trying to just keep my head down and keep focusing on my current work. I’m in a very fortunate position that the only real reason I’m looking at all is because I’m truly looking for a new challenge.

        I think what is holding me back is that they still have the start date listed as January 8th. To me, that means that would really need to have a decision by mid-December. I know I’m not out of the running yet, but in a few weeks, if I hear nothing, I suppose I should just move on.

        1. Lily in NYC*

          You are overthinking things! This is the time of year when everything slows down. A mid-Dec. decision isn’t necessary for a Jan 8 start date. I’d wait another week and then follow up with your contact. They might still be interviewing candidates. Our hiring process is painfully long takes at least two months before we make a decision (but we do at least two interview rounds).

          1. GG Two shoes*

            I’m sure I am over thinking things. In the last year, I’m been a final candidate a few times and haven’t gotten the job so I am feeling a little… disappointed I guess. Not to mention that nearly every one of my friends have changed jobs recently and haven’t had a hard time doing it. I just need to remember: 1. we are in different fields 2. I’m director-level and thus it’s a little more competitive.

            1. Lily in NYC*

              Oh, I get it – I think we all “overthink” in these situations. And remember that being the final candidate several times means you are doing something right. It’s so much harder at the director level. I hope you get the job!

            2. Anion*

              Best of luck to you! Please keep us posted if you can.

              And I know that at pretty much every place I or (especially) my husband has worked, they tend to put off decisions or actions until after the holidays and the end of the year. It’s possible they listed a Jan 8 starting date just to indicate it would be after the new year, but actually mean that’s when they’ll be making the decision or something like that, too.

              I’m crossing my fingers for you. :-)

    2. Bess*

      Two weeks, especially with a holiday, and especially nearing Christmas and New Year’s, is really no time at all for hiring. November and December seem to really melt away when everyone starts taking vacations, big projects come due, yearly budgets are sometimes being hashed out, and people and their families start to get SIIIIIIIICK.

      I’d do the “file it away” thing and try to treat it like a success that you’ve gotten as far as you have, if that helps keep some wind in your sails. Because it is a success!

  46. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    About a year ago our company introduced a new compliance process, hiring a team of 12 admins to handle case management. It was a huge undertaking that took a lot of time for our customers to get used to, but it eventually proved to increwase compliance greatlt and became a selling point for the business. Then a few months ago we were tasked by corporate to trim and non-revenue generating processes, and this one was one of the big ones because the costs were all out of pocket. Without even notifying the customers that a change was in the air, they laid off the entire department and called the customers to basically say “We’re not doing this anymore, and if you want the benefits of the process you’ll have to take it on internally.

    Needless to say the customers have uniformly balked and threatened to take their business elsewhere, so management backtracked and said that they’d give the customers along lead time before ending the process after all, so they can investigate if they have the resources on their end to take the process over (which is what us customer-facing folks recommended and were summarily dismissed). The only problem is that everyone who did that process is gone now, and we’re in a hiring freeze so we can’t get them back. So we’re just kind of…not doing it, even though we;ve told the customers it’s business as usual for now. It’s a house of cards and I’m just wanting for the whole thing to collapse, which based on the volume should be Jan-Feb sometime.

    1. Jadelyn*

      …and this is the problem with being focused on “revenue-generating” vs “non-revenue-generating” processes/roles/functions/departments. A department doesn’t have to directly produce revenue to have value. UGH, it drives me up a wall when short-sighted/dollar-signs-focused people devalue the contributions of support teams that bring other kinds of value to the business.

      Like HR. HR is generally not seen as revenue-producing. But good HR keeps your ass out of legal trouble, helps you find and hire the right people, supports training (whether in-house or by liaising with training vendors), manages employee benefits to keep people happy…

      Or I.T. I.T. doesn’t directly bring in revenue for most orgs, but think about how much better your revenue-producing teams work when they can rely on their tech to run smoothly and don’t have to take time to troubleshoot their own issues or fix the printers.

      /rant

      Sorry. I just…this kind of thing is infuriating. You have my sympathies, and hopefully the blowback when it does collapse hits the higher-ups right in the face and snaps them out of their BS.

      1. NoodleMara*

        I feel you especially right now. Most of the hourly workers were laid off for our slow season, which normally isn’t done but it hasn’t been a great sales year. But those hourly workers were decently busy all winter doing maintenence and teapot storage cleaning and clay sampling. So now all the salary support folks get to do that. :))))

        I’m job searching now because it’s ridiculous.

    2. Pineapple Incident*

      Ugh that sucks.. I’m sorry your company decided this was something that needed trimming from your operations, considering the boost in compliance and that it probably did save money that might have been spent resolving issues related to that process. All I can really offer is commiseration- my old company used to do crap like this all the time, and I work for the federal government now so the issues there go without saying.

      1. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

        We were acquired last year by a Fortune 500 company and this is the sort of thing we’ve been tasked with by them so that they *don’t* close our doors. It sucks.

    4. Jerry Vandesic*

      Applying a bit of cynicism, if any of the customers are US government entities, file a whistle-blower lawsuit against the company for fraud. They are claiming to provide a service that they are in fact not providing.

  47. Bad Candidate*

    I know Alison has said before that you can leave short term jobs off a resume, but at what point should it be on a resume?

    3. Allypopx*

      I have a short term canvassing job on my resume because a) those jobs are always short term b) my stint was less short term than some and c) I think it shows I can work well in an environment known to be crappy and stressful. Can you justify your job like that? Were you there more than 6 months a year? If either of those is a yes, maybe include it. But ultimately it’s up to you.

      I also have this in an “other experience” section of my resume that’s more compressed and doesn’t go into a lot of detail

  48. Cuddles Chatterji*

    Should I ask my manager if I can move to another cubicle due to excessive coughing noise, and if so, how should I frame it?

    My current location is next to a person who constantly clears their throat, coughs, and blows their nose and has done so for the better part of the past 2 years. I suspect this is due to health/medical reasons, but it still drives me insane to the point where every sound this person makes disrupts my attention. I know misophonia is a thing, and I’ve tried earplugs and headphones, but I can’t use those all day long. It’s gotten so bad that I really resent this person, even the way they proverbially “eat crackers”.

    The alternative location could be more noisy due to foot traffic, printer usage, and more talkative people, but would be far away from the coughing person and improve my currently “meh” job satisfaction. There’s other issues around my job satisfaction, and I’m not sure I’ll be in this position 2 years or even one year from now. But this small change would hopefully help make that time more palatable.

    1. CAA*

      If the place you’d move to is empty and there’s no other reason why you need to sit where you are right now (e.g. proximity to colleagues or managers you work with regularly), then I think it’s fine to ask. I’ve occasionally had people ask to move to a different spot, and if it’s possible I’d always do it. It’s a totally free thing that improves an employee’s job satisfaction.

      Your manager might have to notify facilities or ask HR, and if the spot “belongs” to another team, she might have to talk to their manager to find out their plans for it. For these reasons it might not be an instant yes, and it might in the end be a no, but it’s not likely that it would hurt anything to just ask about it.

    2. zora*

      Is there a harm in asking? I think it depends on your manager and your capital with your manager. If you think they would be open to considering it, and they are reasonable and will say no if they have a good reason to say no, then I would go ahead and ask.

      However, I would focus it more on the place you want to move TO, rather than talking about your coworker. I would say something like, “Would it be possible for me to move to X desk? I feel like it would make me more comfortable and it would be easier for me to do my Y tasks that require concentration. I understand if there are reasons that’s not doable, but I just thought I’d ask, since I think it would make my days a lot smoother.”

      But, if you think your manager would not be reasonable about this question, you really need to think through the trade offs. How much political capital are you burning, do you need that for more important things, how bad would it be if your manager retaliated, etc.

      1. GG Two shoes*

        This exactly. A new(ish) person in our company asked to be moved to a different desk/area after about a year mostly because he didn’t like his (senior) co-workers chewing habits. He was granted the move, but it was really seen unfavorably by people. He moved away from his department and it really looked like favoritism and “the squeaky wheel gets the oil” that he was granted the move. It was his first job after college and that combined with other things, made folks side-eye him a lot. It wasn’t long after that he moved on from the company even though he was in-line for to take the senior’s job in less than a couple years.
        Be really careful about how it could be precieved.

        1. Cuddles Chatterji*

          The vacancy is adjacent to someone else in my department. That being said, I do see how some people might get to wondering why I would want to switch locations after so long in one spot.

          1. zora*

            That’s a good thing to think about but don’t overdo it. If it’s just a matter of a few people being like ‘hmm’, then I wouldn’t worry about.

      2. Cuddles Chatterji*

        I’ve been in this job and cubicle for over 5 years. My now-boss was in the cubicle on the other side of the cougher before he got his current position about 6 months ago and moved into an office. Now that I think about that, Boss already might be aware of–and possibly even sympathetic to–some of the ambient noise issues. Hmmm. Thanks for the suggested phrasing.

  49. Red*

    LESS THAN A MONTH UNTIL YHE END OF THE SEMESTER!!! I can’t wait to finish studying and working all the time and actually see my friends again.

    Anyone else here in college and excited to see the light at the end of the textbook?

    1. Pineapple Incident*

      I just turned in my thesis paper for my Masters degree with my advisor’s recommended (and thankfully very minimal) edits, and will present on the 11th. The light is nice and getting so close!

      Congratulations on almost reaching the finish line for your degree!!

      1. Red*

        Lol, im not even close to finishing my degree, im just trying not to even think of spring semester at this point!

        1. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

          Someone renamed our Whatsapp group “Class of 2039”. Still laughing.

    2. Frustrated with Job Seeking*

      My niece is. She’s actually counting the HOURS until the end of the semester. She’s a 2nd year nursing student and seems to always have her books open doing homework.

    3. selina kyle*

      Not me, but several close friends are finishing up school soon and I’m excited for them and you! It’s almost there, you got it.

    4. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

      I have one exam and two finals looming. I need to sleep, like, a month or two. And loose at least a some of the weight I put on this year.

    5. Red Reader*

      Yuuuup. My last everything for this semester is two weeks from today, and then there’s only one semester between me and two masters degrees.

    6. AnotherJill*

      I retired from teaching last spring. I am ECSTATIC not to be getting ready to give and grade final exams and projects. I’m actually going to have time to enjoy getting ready for Christmas for the first time in years.

    7. Crafty*

      I teach at the college level and I have two weeks left and I am SO READY. I think a lot of professors get this way with the fall quarter/semester, too!

    8. Urban teacher*

      Grad school also. In fact avoiding writing a policy memo by reading AAM. Next semester will be my last. I’m excited because Monday I meet with a resume writer. I’m switching careers and have no idea about how to talk about what I can give to a company.

  50. pmc*

    During my performance review this year, my boss told me that due to the pay band for my position, the max salary increase I could expect moving forward would be 1% (that is also the increase I got this year) because I negotiated a higher salary before I started. We started talking about a potential title change since my current one doesn’t really represent what I do – thus potentially increasing my pay band – or getting approval for tuition reimbursement. Then he was fired two weeks later.

    The COO reached out and said she’d be happy to continue talking about both of those options or I could talk to my supervisor who is now my new boss, but I’m kind of at a loss. My lack of salary increase would be worth it to me if I could get an MBA, and I have started researching local business schools. How should I bring this up with my new boss? What questions should I ask, and what should my tone be?

    1. CAA*

      During a one-on-one, say something like “Before he left, I had been talking with ex-manager about the next steps in my career here. We had been mulling over having me move into the x role so I’d have a title that more accurately reflects my actual work, or working on setting up a tuition reimbursement plan. I know he’d talked to COO about this, and I think I’d like to pursue the tuition reimbursement option. Can you follow up with COO and get that started, or would you like me to do it?”

      Probably your new manager is already aware of this past conversation. If he had to step in after your ex-manager was fired, it’s pretty normal for someone to sit down with him and go over the status of each person he’s now managing. Since your COO reached out to you, this is clearly something that upper management was aware of, so it’s highly likely they mentioned it to your new manager during the transition.

      1. pmc*

        That script is exactly what I need. Thank you!

        Now to tell her I want an MBA rather than the MPA she suggested…

        1. M*

          Perhaps you should suggest how much more valuable you’d be to multiple departments with a more generalized MBA graduate degree rather than one with a narrower focus like an MPA.

  51. HappySong*

    Has anybody ever transitioned into a career in HR from a different field? I’m a project manager but have been realizing over the last few months that I ultimately want to move into HR. Unfortunately although I think I have some related skills, it’s not even close to what I went to school for, and since I just started a new job fairly recently it’s not the time to be making big moves. If I manage this transition, it would be a process over the next several years. Luckily the company I work at is big on professional development and management training, so I can try to brainstorm some goals to tackle over the next year that might put me in a better position to pursue HR down the line.

    Has anyone ever made a similar move? Any wisdom to share?

    1. Amber Rose*

      I am also curious about the answers to this so I’m piggybacking a bit, but do you mind if I ask you a question? What makes you want to move into HR?

      I’m trying to get out of my current role but I don’t know to what, and so I’m curious what makes other people want to switch to new fields.

      1. HappySong*

        I’ve been thinking about it as a vague possibility for a while for a number of reasons. I’ve worked with some great HR people who developed programs I found really exciting, like leadership training, recruiting programs, philanthropy, etc. I’ve done some hiring before so that aspect is also really interesting to me. But beyond that, I’m nerdy about things like workplace culture trends, employment laws and understanding the grey area between what employers can and can’t do, so it’s something I want to explore more and help other people understand. It also helps that I’ve worked in a handful of “cool” startups that had no HR structure — it really opens your eyes to how important that work is when no one is doing it!

        To be super honest, it’s cheesy but I actually had a mini-epiphany about it a few days ago. I’ve been communicating with an amazing HR rep for a company I used to work for. She’s investigating a harassment complaint against someone I used to work with, so she reached out to me for some info. When she explained the investigation process, it sounded stressful and intense but still something I really wanted to get involved in doing. So that seemed like a good test: if finding out about one of the most difficult, high-pressure tasks someone has do in their job doesn’t deter you from wanting it, it’s hopefully a good sign.

        1. Amber Rose*

          Thanks so much for the detailed response!
          I currently work in a somewhat similar field in that it requires a lot of training development and investigation and stuff, so maybe I should look more into this.

    2. Amy*

      I transitioned into HR by helping the HR manager whenever I could. I had been working as an Administrator when she asked if I could help her out with some projects. My boss agreed, as long as it didn’t interfere with my work. About 6 months later, a recruiter position opened up internally, I applied and got the job. My boss was very supportive and he knew that I was interested in HR. If possible, see if you can help out in your HR dept. I’ve also had several HR friends that came up through the ranks of Staffing offices. Also, if you can, join your local SHRM group. Good luck!

  52. Jadelyn*

    Send good vibes my way, please – I’ve been promised that I’ll hear today about the job reclassification/salary adjustment that has been “in the works” most of this year. Would love advice on negotiating on a promotion/raise offered at a current employer – it’s not like a job offer where I could walk away, because I’m going to take the promotion anyway, but I’d like to make sure the pay is fair.

    Because I’ve been horribly underpaid pretty much the whole time I’ve been working here. Market comp for this area would run $60k-70k for my new role (which I’ve actually been *in* and doing for this whole year already), we’re a nonprofit so I think it’ll probably be in the $50-55k range instead, which is fine given that I’m currently making $37k (while the temp admin we hired to help take admin stuff off my plate so I could focus on the new specialist stuff I’m doing is making over $40k haha isn’t that a laugh) – but with the track record of the organization using my “inexperience” as a reason to underpay me, I’m not at all sure the offer will be fair, even though I’ve now got 4 years of overall experience, 1 in the specialist area, I got my degree earlier this year, and got a professional certification last year.

    So, any advice on negotiating a raise offer at your existing job would be great. Thanks!

    1. CAA*

      When they give you your new title, ask what salary they were thinking about for this role (assuming they haven’t already mentioned it). Then you say “I know the market rate in this area for someone with my experience is a minimum of $60K. Is there any way we could get closer to that?” Then be quiet and wait for them to respond. Resist the temptation to jump in and negotiate against yourself.

      Best of luck!

      1. Jadelyn*

        I just talked to my VP – no decision today, we’re being told Tuesday or Wednesday. ARGH!! But it’s been confirmed that when I do get my raise, it’ll be retroactive to the start of this year since that’s when I was actually in this role. So there’s that much at least. I asked if we knew what the salary range was going to be yet, he said no. But I really like that wording, so I will keep it tucked in my pocket for the follow-up discussion next week. Thank you!

        2. Denise in Las Vegas*

          Remember the “and then be quiet”!
          It’s chess. Make your move and then wait for the other side.
          Good luck! :-)

  53. Pineapple Incident*

    Short version: Any advice on how to manage when you feel like you’re doing 2 jobs?

    Long version: I’m doing extra work because the groups I support have various staff shortages. In short, the extra work is in an area that I hate- i.e. I normally review these packages but putting them together (what I’m doing in addition to my regular work) is tedious, requires lots of communication with outside entities that don’t understand our required documentation, and loads of waiting for people to respond to requests for info/signatures/etc. I am sometimes spending so much time on these extra duties that I’m eating into time on projects I like much more (process improvement for my office and the like, as well as my *actual* job). I’m still able to get everything done, but I feel like I’m burning out and it’s starting to make me want to leave.

    I haven’t yet been here a year and before this, wanted to stay for at least another year in my position because though this is not my desired field, the office culture is great and they’re very interested in professional development. This extra duty isn’t going to be shifted to someone else for at least several months, perhaps longer. I’m actually meeting with my boss today for our weekly 1:1, and I’m planning on asking for a raise considering I’m doing all of these extra things, working on other new projects, and my contract renewal is in January.

  54. Frustrated with Job Seeking*

    How do you stay motivated/keep going when your job search seems fruitless and never ending? I’ve gotten interviews and received good feedback when I’ve followed up but there was a more qualified candidate, they promoted internally, etc.

    I’ve had my resume reviewed, read this website’s resume and job search advice and happily use it. How do you stay positive and keep going when job searching gets you down?

    1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      I wish I knew. I’ve been looking for a job since January and I feel absolutely awful and like a giant failure at life. I have even been turned down for volunteer positions. I had one interview and one rejection letter and all the rest I didn’t even get a response to.

      All I’ve really managed to do is just keep searching and applying for things, and going back on antidepressants. I’m not hopeful right now though.

      1. Anion*

        Here’s hoping for better things for both of you soon. I’m so sorry you’re having a hard time.

    2. Bad Candidate*

      I’m sorry, I have similar issues. Really the only thing that’s helped me is antidepressants. :\ Just keep swimming.

    3. nep*

      I hear you. Sorry you’re having to face this.
      Of course it’s no consolation (because there’s still no job)…but I will say the fact that you’re getting interviews must mean that your presentation — and more importantly the content and what you’ve got to offer — are strong.
      It can feel downright debilitating, being passed over time and again. It sure has a way of killing the motivation to keep up those applications, resumes, and cover letters. But bottom line is you’ve got to do it. I know you know that.
      I’ve been looking for months and the furthest I’ve gotten — in one single case — is an email requesting references. (Didn’t end up going any further. References were not contacted.) I will say that I feel a hell of a lot worse about my job search when I’m not exercising regularly, drinking a lot of water, and eating healthy foods. It helps me immensely to handle the really down moments that come. They still come, but I am better at facing them when I feel healthy and fit. It’s just one outlet — you might have others. Something that makes you feel good about you and feel stronger in the face of this challenge.
      Wishing you all the best. It will happen. Please keep us posted.

  55. HK*

    Weird question here.
    I’m an executive assistant at a non-profit. Last year for my birthday, my bosses got me a gift card. This year, one boss remembered to wish me happy birthday on the day of (I took the day off), and the other was out on PTO but didn’t say anything until he was back in the office. I did not receive a gift this year.
    Is this something I should be weirded out about? (They’re both busy people and don’t remember things well.)

    1. fposte*

      I’d check against the standard of the office in general. However, in my experience actual gifts are an outlier, and I really wouldn’t expect a boss who was out on my birthday to remember it when he came back; I’m impressed that somebody reached out to you on the day when you were out. So unless everybody else working there always gets a gift card or just plain card, I’d assume you got a little extra attention when you were new but that it’s not a big birthday place.

    2. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      Nah. Since they did both wish you a happy birthday, I’d assume the stars just didn’t align. It was kind of them to get you a gift last year, but it doesn’t sound like a deliberate slight that they didn’t this year. Unless you’ve noticed other things going on, I wouldn’t stress about it.

      And happy (belated) birthday!

    3. HK*

      Thanks guys. This is partially my anxiety brain, and also comparing to last year/the other EA in the office.

  56. SandrineSmiles (France) At Work*

    Well, that new job I’ve had since the end of September is so different from my previous big job I’m still not used to it.

    1) I get told how valued I am
    2) I get complimented on things that still make me blush (my ego is thankful though)
    3) Most coworkers are extremely friendly.

    It got “so bad” (yes really) that my body had a small breakdown two weeks ago. So much tension before, so much pressure from supervisors, and many things just went poof and my body had defenses down and wooshhhhhh I had to be off work for a few days. My doctor said that after what I’d been through at my previous job, she wasn’t surprised and she just said I needed to rest a bit.

    I think I managed to get through this episode thanks to AAM and the memories I have of people sending in letters about being traumatized by a job and not knowing how to handle a nicer boss in the next job or something. I’m so happy.

    (I went back and had to be off again for a few days because of getting 7 teeth pulled but yeah) I am so thankful to be at peace at work now. I’m “only” a receptionist, and the biggest annoyance is having to field telemarketers, but really, if it weren’t for the location that is a liiiiitle annoying, I’d stay here forever.

    So yeah, this is a silly happy rambling from someone who, FINALLY, is just HAPPY at work *_* .

    (Maybe the fact that I have a computer and some internet for down times is an added bonus… yeah, maybe haha)

    1. CAA*

      I’m so happy for you! I’ve been reading your posts here for a few years, and it’s so wonderful to see one that feels like you were smiling when you wrote it.

    2. Jillociraptor*

      I’m SO thrilled to hear this! It sounds like your new position is an awesome fit, Sandrine! One weird thing that I’ve noticed is how, even though they are stressful, crises can at least be cathartic because there’s an outlet for all the built up tension. It takes some time to adjust to just not building the tension, but in the meantime, it’s a whole different kind of stress that you can’t release. It will take some time to adjust, but it sounds like you are in a really good place.

  57. Namast'ay in Bed*

    This happened to me at my last job, and I’m wondering if you guys would have handled it different or maybe what to do if this happens again.

    I’ve always worked best when I have an on-site manager. I’m not saying I need my hand held or that I need someone glaring over my shoulder to be productive (I don’t, I hate micromanaging), but I’ve always found myself happier and more successful when my manager was a quick walk away, or that I just had the opportunity to interact with them in person. So I was concerned when about a year ago my manager told me that the team was growing and as such, I was going to be transferred to another manager, one who works on the opposite side of the country. I worked great with this person and liked them personally, but I expressed that I was concerned about having a remote manager (in a completely different time zone), citing that in my past experiences, this didn’t work out too well for me. My manager essentially hand-waved my concerns away, telling me it would be fine, that my and the team’s communication tools/skills were great, and that I would barely notice the change. Well, it didn’t go great, things got significantly worse for me and I left the organization within a year.

    I’m wracking my brain for what I could have done differently – this marked the second time that things are going great, I get switched from an on-site manager to a remote one, things get worse, and then I leave the organization a year later (technically the first time I was laid off, but I was desperately trying to leave anyway and who knows maybe they would have chosen someone else had things not changed), so I feel like I can strongly say that remote mangers are not good for me.

    There is also a chance I have had bad managers that weren’t equipped to handle remote management, and a good manager would change that, but is there anything I could have done differently? If I find myself in this position again, is there anything else I can do besides maybe start job searching?

    1. SarahKay*

      I have a remote manger, and I’m not wild about it either. One thing I found that helps is to schedule weekly meetings with them, even if just for 15 minutes. My Outlook meeting request is framed as “Just a very quick informal weekly catch up for any questions or problems with the [sitename] site”.
      It gives me (and my manager) a chance to bring up any of the little problems that you don’t mind raising when you bump into someone at the coffee machine, but don’t quite feel is worth calling them when they might be busy. It also usually generates a couple of minutes of friendly chat which helps us get to know each other, and, for me at least, makes me feel more comfortable about approaching them when I need to.
      I’m sorry things worked out so badly for you.

    2. Havarti*

      When you say things got worse, can you cite some examples? Like you couldn’t move forward on something because they didn’t communicate in a timely fashion or was your brain going “My boss isn’t here, lets stare at cat videos all day long! Wheeee!” Were your coworkers slacking off? We kinda need to understand how it went wrong in order to determine if there was something you could have done differently.

    3. DDJ*

      I would recommend talking to your remote manager about the kinds of things you need. Whatever that may be. Is it the ability to call up your boss every now and then to chat? Or for your boss to call you up a few times a week just to see how things are going? Do you want a weekly meeting?

      Without knowing details of how things “didn’t go great,” and then “got significantly worse,” it’s hard to say what you could have done. The bottom line is that remote managing is becoming a lot more common. My first ever leadership position involved remote employees, which was a huge adjustment for me, as well as for my employees. Regular check-ins didn’t work all that well, but assuring my employees that they could call me any time seemed to really help. It’s more like ‘just stopping by’ than scheduling formal calls or meetings. And actually being available and proving that they could do that was important. It was rare that I ever missed a call from an employee (although we have one of those programs that lets people see when you’re at your desk).

      I mean, a good manager is a good manager. You could have an on-site manager who sucks, or a remote manager who sucks. And maybe that’s what it was, in your case. Maybe your new manager just sucked, and would have sucked equally had they been on-site.

      For example, if you had an on-site manager who was on the road a lot, or in meetings constantly, and very difficult to actually pin down, you’d be no better off, if what you’re looking for is impromptu connection.

      The unfortunate thing is that usually, these types of decisions (changing reporting structure) take a lot of work to implement, so it’s very unlikely that anything can be changed once it’s put into place. Unless work suffers across the board and the higher-ups realize that maybe the change wasn’t a good one. Did your coworkers seem impacted to a similar degree? If you’re wondering if there’s anything you could do or say to change someone’s mind about reporting structure? Probably not. If you wanted to stay with the organization, you might look for other positions that DO report to an on-site manager. But there’s no guarantee it won’t change, if you’re in an organization that makes those types of changes.

      In my organization, there is a LOT of remote management. It’s just the nature of the business. So it might be something to research the next time you’re job-hunting. Or you might want to think about questions you could ask in an interview that might help you figure out if it’s a possibility.

  58. Elizabeth*

    I’ve gotten the impression from Alison and commenters here (and my own experience) that “contracts” aren’t the norm in the U.S. for full-time (salaried, exempt) employees. But some tech industry colleagues and I are discussing this, and apparently I’m an outlier.

    (Side note: an offer letter isn’t a legal contract, is it?)

    1. fposte*

      Are you an outlier in your opinion or in your contract status? You’re right that simply getting an offer letter does not mean you have a contract; what a letter actually binds an employer or employee to is best left to a lawyer in the relevant state who’s seen the document.

      1. Elizabeth*

        4 people have contracts, two (including me) don’t, and most of the other people in the conversation thought contracts were fairly normal.

        1. CAA*

          These people are working in the U.S. for American companies? No, contracts are not normal, and I’m surprised you found 3 people who have them.

          Especially in tech, there’s a thing where a company contracts with another company to provide temporary workers. Those temporary workers are often called “contractors”, but the workers have not signed a contract. Typically they are ordinary at-will employees of the staffing company and they can be let go at any time, just like any employee of the company they’re “contracting” at.

          Similarly, I worked for a government contractor and would sometimes talk about “our contract”, but I wasn’t personally a party to that contract. It was between the government and my employer.

          These people could also be working as individual contractors, but if that’s the case, they would not be considered full-time salaried exempt workers. There are laws about how much of their work the employer controls, and they can’t receive a salary, just the payments that are specified in the contract itself.

        1. zora*

          Well there are some sectors that more commonly use ‘Contractors’ who do have a contract, because they are a more limited worker than a full employee. I have heard of this in tech, though I don’t know any one specifically who has one. But at my friend’s startup, there is apparently one person who was hired as a contractor to work on a specific project, so he has a ‘contract’ for that project, what it will entail, what the deliverables are, the time period and how much he is paid. I believe my company (a PR company) has a few contractors as well who also work on short term projects, but they don’t come into our offices, they work on their own and on their own schedules.

          But the same company has many other people who are hired on as full time employees who don’t have a contract, and are at will employees.

    2. nonegiven*

      My nephew started working for company A. After many years, they switched things around and he was working for company B on the company A contract. Now he’s working for company C on the company A contract. Mind, he’s in the same location and on the same team and has been promoted to lead over the years. The name on his paycheck changed twice. He’s always been a W2 employee and the contract is between the companies, but technically he’s a contractor for company A.

  59. Adhyanon*

    Any federal contractors or civil servants who can advise? I’ve noticed quite a few around these parts. I’m a federal contractor, but I get my healthcare benefits through my spouse. We got a new company based in a different state when the contract changed over a couple of years ago.

    This year I have a direct report who does get their benefits through the contract. The premiums are least double! what a similar plan would cost on our State of California insurance exchange, even without subsidies. Daphne, my report, makes enough that she doesn’t qualify for subsidies. But, the company won’t let her take her Health & Welfare allotment (almost $9000/year) in cash, they insist it has to go for their health insurance ($8500/year in premiums for an individual, $23,000/year for family of 4) or go into a 401K. They consider the H&W, which she’s required to receive under the contract the “employer’s share” of her healthcare.

    The only thing we’ve come up with is to put the $ into her 401K and buy through the exchange. It just seems so crazy that their healthcare plans, which are equivalent to the lowest cost plan in our state are priced like the highest cost plan. Any advice? Are they allowed to hold back the Health & Welfare if she opts out of the healthcare they offer? Is there anything we can do about how insanely overpriced their costs are?

    1. CAA*

      It doesn’t really matter that you’re a government contractor in this case. The government isn’t going to step in and make them give her the money. Most companies don’t let employees who are opting out of their health insurance take the payment in cash. There are a few that do (I worked at one very small company that did), but it’s not common.

      Her best option is probably to put the money in her 401K and then buy insurance on the individual market instead of through CoveredCA. In CA, it’s a little bit cheaper to buy directly from the insurer than to buy on the exchange, and if she knows she makes too much to get an ACA premium credit or cost sharing she could save a small amount that way.

      She could also look at the affordability rules for ACA. I’m not familiar with the details, but there’s some provision that if employer coverage would cost more than x% of your income … something. (Sorry, I don’t know exactly what help the unaffordability clause gets you.) If she’s putting that money in her 401K, then it may not count as part of her income for the affordability test, so she might meet this requirement.

    2. goverment contractor*

      I’m a federal contractor. To directly answer your questions:
      The contract company is required to pay the H&W, but they have some flexibility in how they pay it. Putting it into a 401k is a legal option, and if that’s what the company offers, the employee can’t really do anything about that.
      No, there is nothing the employee can do about the healthcare costs. These are set by the company in conjunction with their insurance broker. They are not in any way tied to Government rate.

      I know those aren’t satisfying answers :(. I’d be happy to try to answer any other questions you have in this area.

      1. goverment contractor*

        Wow, I do know how “government” is spelled, despite evidence to the contrary…

        1. Adhyanon*

          Thanks. I pretty much figured there wasn’t much that could be done. We looked at the hardship category but the company says that the Health and Welfare $ are the employer share. The owner’s wife does the HR and she’s in way over her head.

          I’ll pass on the info about looking at companies directly. That may get the cost low enough to be tolerable. I don’t think she has a lot left over every month – paying post tax dollars for insurance won’t help.

  60. breadandbutterfly*

    I have been working at a temp job for the past few weeks. The people are great, but the work is somewhat dull and I’m full of anxiety because they decided to hire two temps to cover a position normally staffed by one person. My co-temp is wonderful, but she is skilled at Tea Pot Design while I’m skilled at Tea Pot Boxing. The company needs more Tea Pot Design and has very little Boxing to do. Consequently, I feel like I’m making a bad impression because there is so little to do. It doesn’t help that their approach to Boxing is different than mine (making it difficult for me to feel like I’m doing a good job) and somewhat entry-level. Normally, I’d be fine with this, but they told me during the interview it would only be a small percentage of my day. Instead, it’s what I do all. Day.

    Also, one of the Specialists is being promoted and there are hints that her position could be filled with Co-Temp or me.

    I am feeling anxious because 1) Due to Co-Temp’s Design skills, she is being asked to do more work than me; 2) I feel like I’m making a Really Terrible Impression because there’s so little for me to do; 3) Co-Temp met with Specialist and Director yesterday and I thought they were offering her the full-time position; 4) Specialist asked Co-Temp to “walk with her,” thus making me feel like the discussion was all about how little I’m doing.

    I know this is silly/ridiculous, but I have so much anxiety about long-term job stability because my position is seen as disposable. Every boss I’ve had has told me my job is on the line not due to bad work, but because clients cannot afford my company’s services. I’m working on leaving the industry but, in the meantime, does anyone have tips on how to calm down? Does anyone else have experience feeling like they’re making a bad impression because their skills just aren’t needed? Any tips re: temping in general?

    1. HappySnoopy*

      As long as it’s within the bounds if your temping contract (And it sounds like it’s ok if only part of your job duties were to be teapot boxing) see what you can volunteer to do to assist that pushes your strengths and skills.

      Are these hints just gossip or indication by teapot supervisor? If the latter, ask what you can do to show your interest and make yourself a strong candidate. If the former just keep doing your job to the best of your ability.

      Just hang in there.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      For me the only thing that would help me to calm down would be to increase my activity on my action plan to get to a better job. You have been told your job is in danger. So being anxious makes a bit of sense. Take action that matches how anxious you feel.

  61. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

    I got my raise! It’s more than I requested, so now I’ll be slightly underpaid instead of grossly underpaid. I told my manager of the spoiled, noisy, childish people at the client’s office, and he’ll try once again to get us moved to a quiet area away from them. He also told me that their manager has no way to discipline them or get them fire for misconduct (this week they organized a WoW tournament, which takes place… on company time, with company computers) since all of them are well connected or nepotism hires.

  62. Teapot Librarian*

    tl;dr: What can I do to change my employee’s impression that I don’t support him?

    This week my issue is with a different employee. And I could use advice, am not just venting. One of my employees works on teapot tracking. He works a lot with teapot creators, who are based in other organizations. Those teapot creators sometimes need to get a teapot back, and my employee helps if the creator has trouble with the online system. He is diligent and committed to providing good customer service, but is pretty inflexible and not great at problem solving.
    Enter teapot creator Janice. Janice has been asking for teapots back for about two years now. She needs help EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. My employee has explained the process to her every time, but every time she needs another teapot, she has trouble again. When she isn’t satisfied by my employee’s response, she emails me and copies her boss.
    Janice is taking up a disproportional amount of all of our time. I do think that my employee could probably explain things better to Janice, but I also think that Janice needs to get through her thick skull (sorry for the annoyance) that she needs to know what shipment of teapots holds the teapot she’s looking for.
    This happened again earlier this week. I responded to everyone on the email–my employee, Janice, Janice’s direct supervisor, and the director of Janice’s office–suggesting that we have a meeting to all sit down in a room and figure out some solutions. I did say in my email that “…and Janice hasn’t been satisfied by our assistance” but did NOT say “…and we haven’t provided satisfactory assistance.” I say that because here’s the issue (wow it took me a long time to get here): my employee came to my office and told me that 1. he thinks a meeting will be a waste of time, and 2. he thinks that my scheduling a meeting means that I don’t support him. I emphasized that I DO support him and that my desire to solve this problem is so that he doesn’t have to deal with it anymore, but he just kept repeating that he doesn’t feel like I support him. (Also he repeated at least 10 times that he thinks a meeting won’t do any good.) What can I do to change my employee’s impression that I don’t support him? It’s true that he’s not my best employee and I think there are things he could do better, and he might get that vibe from me–though I hope he doesn’t–but what he does, he does accurately and conscientiously and with a strong work ethic.

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      I get the difference between Janice not being satisfied with the assistance and the assistance not being satisfactory, but I think a lot of people won’t, and he definitely might be one of those people.

      Any chance you can think of a way to redirect Janice elsewhere, since she’s probably not going to learn at this point? (Or she already knows but likes having other people explain it/do it for her if there’s a “doing it for her” component there.) Do you have a supervisor who you could clue in about Janice’s behavior? Any chance you can write down the procedure and, instead of having him explain it to her, tell him to consistently point her toward the written procedure?

      I’m not sure how scheduling a meeting would make him think you don’t support him, but tbh I’d probably think it was a waste of time too. Maybe he thinks it’s going to be a disciplinary meeting?

      1. Teapot Librarian*

        Unfortunately, my employee is the only person in our 30,000-employee umbrella organization who does what he does, and Janice is the only person in her office who requests teapots. The outcome that I’m hoping for is that Janice gets put on a PIP, but I feel like her supervisors need to hear what she’s being told in order for them to see that it’s her fault and not my employee’s fault that we can’t get her teapots for her, in order for her supervisors to see the problem.
        (My employee HAS written down the procedure and sent it to her. It hasn’t helped. Le sigh.)

        1. Not So NewReader*

          The other employee has no way of knowing that this is a move to get Janice on PIP. He thinks that this is a move where you are going to tell him how woefully inadequate he is, and he has failed Janice.

          I would not even invite this guy to Janice’s meeting. If you are satisfied with his work that is enough. You can present copies of his answers and you can show how Janice is asking the same questions over and over all day long. He does not need to be in the meeting for that.

    2. fposte*

      It seems like Janice is pretty small potatoes in the course of his job in reality–does he feel you’re not behind him generally? And what does “behind him” mean here–does he think you think it’s his fault, or does he want you to tell the other place this is totally Janice’s fault and to quit it right now? I mean, it’s clear he’s unhappy with the phraseology; I think you’re right that what you said wasn’t throwing him under the bus, but that would require some pretty fine parsing to get to, so I can see why if he’s already frustrated he didn’t do that parsing. But I also think you need to be clear that a meeting is the next step when dealing with a situation like this because it’s procedure and because it’s important for institutional relations, which will need to be maintained whether Janice goes up in a cloud of smoke tomorrow or works there until 2100.

      Given some things you’ve said about hoarding employee and now this one, I’m wondering if you might find it useful to try to let go of the emotional side of your employees a little bit–in both cases, you’re talking a lot about managing emotions in ways that I think can’t be managed and wouldn’t be priorities even if they could. It’s okay for him to be unhappy with you way you handled this, so long as you’re clear and fair about it.

      (I’m also casting about desperately for what the teapots are standing in for here–I don’t deal with anything that fits this model!)

      1. Teapot Librarian*

        Let go of emotions? What is this “letting go” of which you speak? ;-)
        Thank you for the language of “important for institutional relations”–I’ll have to keep that in mind for any additional conversation about WHY/what’s the purpose of the meeting.
        And I don’t know what my employee wants beyond not having to repeatedly deal with Janice having the same problem. I probably should have asked him. I’ll have to have that conversation with him. I wonder if that lack of communication is the source of his feeling that I don’t support him. (The lack of communication is a serious failing of mine as a manager, but I can see how he would take it personally.)

    3. SilverRadicand*

      I think, your employee is not expecting an amicable solution to be possible and that him being at the meeting is going to expose him on the “firing line”(there are three folks from the “side” that has repeatedly been unsatisfied with his work.
      I’m not a huge fan of the line “…and Janice hasn’t been satisfied with our assistance” because it isn’t clear (you feel your office has been going above and beyond for her, but it could also be read that you feel your office hasn’t been doing satisfactory work). That may be playing into your employee’s hesitance regarding the meeting.
      But overall, I think the big thing is take the lead and support him in the meeting. Try to avoid a result that puts blame or additional work on him. Maybe writing up a “instruction sheet” of sorts might help? Ask him before the meeting (even if he doesn’t think the meeting will work) what he thinks needs to happen and what might be some potential solutions. You say problem-solving isn’t his strong point, so I’m not sure how much that will get you in terms of actual solutions, but being involved in the problem solving (in a safe way) will hopefully help.

      1. Teapot Librarian*

        He *has* written instructions. Having them hasn’t helped Janice :-(
        I appreciate the suggestion to ask him what he wants to happen at the meeting and what he thinks some solutions might be.

    4. TCO*

      If I were your employee, and had been putting up with this for two years without seeing any improvement, I, too, would be skeptical that a meeting will fix anything. I’d be annoyed that this is taking up time I need to use for other work (work he may see as more “real,” urgent, and/or important) and I’d be worried that the meeting will make me look bad and/or result in more work being created for me. If your employee kept repeating that he doesn’t think this meeting will do any good, maybe that’s his real concern more than “you don’t support me.” And in that lower state of frustration and anxiety, really, what reason does he have to believe that something will change because of this meeting? Nothing’s changed for years.

      In our best state, we can see why this meeting might help. But your employee is not in his best state when it comes to Janice. He is frustrated and tired. I’d outline to him what he should expect the meeting to be like, what solutions you will be pushing for in the meeting (with an emphasis on the fact that you will not allow this to make for work for him), and talk about what you’ll do next if the meeting doesn’t help. Someone who likes structure and hates gray areas will benefit from concrete information and a step-by-step plan. He’s probably never attended a meeting like this and doesn’t know what to expect.

      1. Teapot Librarian*

        Thanks, this is really helpful to read. I like the idea to discuss with him beforehand what to expect the meeting to be like.

        1. Anion*

          I wonder if, in addition to asking him what he’d like to see happen at the meeting, it might be helpful to share with him what outcome you’re hoping for?

          Maybe you could say, “I wanted to talk some more about this meeting, and why I feel it’s necessary. I know Janice can be very difficult to deal with, and my hope here is that by doing this, we can show Janice’s managers just how hard you have worked to satisfy and help her, and how much of your efforts have gone unrewarded (or “how little effect your hard work has actually had on her/how much of your hard work she has ignored,” something to that effect). I’m hoping that we can make it clear to them that the issue here is Janice’s inability to handle her assignment, and not a failing on your part. With that in mind, can you think of some good examples we can use as illustrations?”

          In other words, you’re making clear to Fergus that the meeting is specifically to *defend* him and ask Janice’s manager to step in and deal with *her,* and you’re showing that you value his work and input by asking him to contribute to the meeting’s talking points. You’re asking him for back-up, basically, thus demonstrating that you consider his work and his thoughts valuable, and sharing with him what your goals are, thus demonstrating your trust in him. (Obviously you don’t have to–and may not want to, for a variety of reasons–specifically tell him that you want Janice’s mgr to put her on a PIP, but still, at least he fully understands what your goal is.)

          You may not want or be able to do this for a variety of reasons (I don’t know your workplace, obviously), but I thought I’d throw it out there. If he sees the two of you united in one goal, he will probably be less likely to suspect he’s going to be thrown under the bus in the meeting, and will probably stop pushing back on the idea of having a meeting at all.

          I hope that helps!

          1. Anion*

            (I know you said you told him that “[your] desire is to solve this problem so he doesn’t have to deal with it anymore,” but I suspect that sounds to him like it’s still going to be a meeting where he’s expected to shoulder some blame or take on more work or whatever. So I think maybe rephrasing it as, “My desire is to show Janice’s managers how much of a pain she is [not in those exact words, of course] and get them to do something about it,” might put his mind at ease and show him that you really DO support him.)

            1. Teapot Librarian*

              Not sure if you’re going to see this, but thank you for these “scripts.” I think this is going to help.

        2. Anecdata*

          I’m an American who works outside the US; and at first I didn’t understand what people even meant by “contracts”! So, when my non-US colleagues have a contract what they mean is that they’ve signed on for a defined period of time (usually 1-year increments) – and within that time, they can’t quit (without legal/financial repercussions). At the same time, the employer cannot fire them or lay them off, without serious, in-depth documentation of something like committing an actual crime, and VERY generous severance (like, we have paid people out for the entire year/rest of their contract, if they are truly toxic). Is that what you have?

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Just my opinion but this needs to be a private conversation between you and Janice’s boss. Explain to the boss that no other creator has as many problems as Janice does and unfortunately you are not able to provide this level of help. Cite example of repeated questions and problems and it would be good if you had numbers to back it up.

      April’s teapot: 10 calls, 15 emails
      August’s teapot: 12 calls 18 emails

      Compared to average creators who might have 3 calls and 2 emails.

      Then go over the questions.
      She asks questions A, B and C each time. In April she asked question A three times, question B five times and question C twice.
      She repeated questions A, B and C in August.
      Then you point out that other creators rarely ask the same question twice.

      I see what you are saying about your employee being less than ideal. One of the rules of thumb I have used is “What would I say if I had a superstar?” Compare that to what I want to say now. What I would aim for is creating a guideline that would be permanently in place and used across the board. “Here is the level of service we are able to provide…..”

      Your employee needs you to set boundaries. Janice has run amok for too long. FWIW, I think this is a private matter just between you and Janice’s boss.

      As an aside, he is probably curt with Janice as a device to limit her constant contact.

      1. Teapot Librarian*

        Thanks for these suggestions. I want this meeting to be everyone involved since part of the problem is that there is a lot of “telephone” going on. I hear what my employee tells me and what Janice tells me, Janice’s boss hears what Janice tells him, Janice’s grandboss hears what Janice’s boss tells her, I hear what Janice’s grandboss tells me.

  63. Broadcastlady*

    Open Thread Update: Two weeks ago I wrote that my very junior co-worker was asking the same questions over and over again after we’d covered them, and often was calling me when I was off work (our hours overlap only a little). Snark gave me some excellent advice, as did others, and I have used it.

    First, I have stopped answering after (my) hours calls. He usually then texts, and if it something that genuinely needs addressing, I call back. If not, I ignore it until the next day. I also set his phone number on the “Do Not Disturb” setting on my phone, which has helped tremendously! I see the calls when I check my phone, instead of feeling constantly interrupted. Second, I have found he isn’t a good note taker, but I am a writer by nature (and partially by profession), so the info I feel sure he’s going to ask me repeated questions about, I write the instructions out in detail. I mean DETAIL. Then when he asks me the same questions, I say “It’s in the notes I gave you.” or “Did you check your notes? The answer is in the notes.” Rinse and repeat as needed. I’m happy to report that he has nearly stopped calling ME. He isn’t there yet, but he’s almost stopped. Remember me mentioning that my boss is rarely in the office and couldn’t understand why this was a problem for me? Well, the co-worker has started to call him now, and, surprise, surprise, the boss gets it a little more. All in all, it’s getting much better. Thank you to all for the advice, especially Snark.

  64. Applesauced*

    Question about internal moves/transferring offices within a company:
    (It’s one large company with multiple offices. Overall, there’s overlap in some clients, resources, and occasionally shared staff, but each office has it’s own projects and operating budget.)
    Do you talk to your home office about the possibility of transferring or do you find and apply to a position in the new office first?
    Do you apply through the regular way (online form), or approach someone at the new office directly?
    Can you ask your boss at the current office to put in a good world for you at the new office?
    Since it’s internal, the “don’t use your work email to job hunt” rule is moot, right? Would it be weird to book a room at current office (during office hours) to interview by Skype with the new one?

    1. CAA*

      I only did this once, and it was a big multi-national corporation.

      First, talk to your current manager about your desire to transfer and whether it’s to get into a different role or to a different location. She is going to find out as soon as you apply, and it’s a lot better if this info comes from you first. If there’s a deadline and you’re definitely moving to a different city to follow a spouse or whatever, also tell her that. If you have a good relationship, you can ask her if she knows anyone at that office and if she could help you get in touch with a hiring manager there. Even if she doesn’t know anyone there, she’s going to be called as a reference, so you don’t need to ask her to put in a good word.

      Once you’ve looped in your manager, then search for and apply for positions in the usual way, even if she’s also working on your behalf. Use your internal email address. You can book a room to skype with the new office.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Agreeing with all of this. I transferred within my now ex company three times over the course of four years, and the last two times I did everything noted above (the first time I was in a training program that was intended to place me in a permanent role in another division, so I didn’t have to do anything).

  65. DC*

    Hopefully my last update in this job saga:

    The friend who had connected me to the CEO told me he deserved to know, so I needed to call him. I called him to turn down the offer, and let him know why, and didn’t been get past turning it down.

    His response was “I didn’t know we offered.” This sexist VP had just gone rogue, basically. So chalk that up as another red flag.

    The rest of the conversation was the best one I could have asked for: he wants to remain connected and get to work for me. I think I dodged a bullet and came out on top!

      1. DC*

        We’ve been chatting in past open threads. I’ve been in a shitty job, got an interview, and got offered the job the next day- which then turned into some solid red flags and a sexist VP I was interacting with. Folks offered advice on the handling-the-offer-with-the-sexist-VP last week.

  66. CleverGirl*

    WHAT DOES IT MEAN?! I applied for a job at a large company. I have been logging into the application portal periodically checking on my application’s status. For a long time it said “HM Review” but 2 days ago it changed to “Interview Stage.” But I haven’t been contacted for an interview. I *did* however get the following email:

    “Dear Clever Girl,

    Req ID: [CENSORED]
    Job Title: [CENSORED]

    [Company] participates in the U.S. Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) program, which allows [Company] to claim tax credits when it hires employees who are identified as members of certain groups.

    [Company]’s Employment Tax Department invites you to participate in the WOTC program. Participation is entirely voluntary and will not benefit or disadvantage you during the interview process in any way. Moreover, completion of the form will not have any impact on your personal income tax returns. The information will be used solely for purposes of claiming a tax credit for [Company] and will not be shared with Human Resources or included in your employment application or interview materials.

    To participate in the WOTC program click the following link to access the Work Opportunity Tax Credit page Click here

    Email any tax credit questions to EmploymentTaxcredits@[Company].com.

    Thank you,
    [Company] Talent Acquisition Team”

    Does this mean I should expect to get an interview? Was it a mistake? What does it all meannnnn?!?!?!

    1. CAA*

      It means that somebody read your application and didn’t reject it immediately. They may want to interview you, or they may have put you in a pool of people they’re thinking about phone screening and will either move you on to an actual screen or reject you later. This is one of the weaknesses with ATS systems that candidates can see. They usually don’t have a good way to tag the “maybes” so managers have to use the existing statuses that don’t always mirror the actual hiring process that company or department uses.

      The ATS probably sends out the WOTC form automatically when your application status moves to interview, whether or not you ever get an interview. The people who use the ATS may not know that. Fill it out if you wish, but the people who are hiring won’t know if you filled it out or not and it won’t affect whether you get an interview or get the job if you do.

  67. Blank Space*

    How do I explain a gap of about 6 months (and counting) in my work history, when truthfully the reasons for it are that I moved 3 times (one was out of state); my dog got sick; I was fortunate enough that I didn’t need to get paid during that time because of free housing; but mostly I burned out on work and was completely unmotivated to even apply for any jobs?

    1. Sualah*

      Honestly, to me, the relocation sounds like a good enough excuse. Maybe throw in something about finding a good fit with your next position. “Relocating and making sure I apply for jobs that I think are an excellent fit” seems very valid to me.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      Just say you knew you’d be making multiple moves during that time period and didn’t want to job job.

    3. CAA*

      “I took a short sabbatical because I needed some time to relocate and take care of some family issues that are now resolved.”

  68. Amber Rose*

    The cough medicine I took last night affected me very badly and kept me up all night. My face is still kind of numb, I’m shaky and I’m dizzy/have vertigo. It’s exactly like being hungover. I wish I wasn’t at work today, but I told some people I’d be at a bar last night, and given that I look hungover today, it would be too suspicious to go home. :(

    I was at the bar, but only because it was rented out for a prize draw event thing I won entry to in a radio contest. There was no alcohol and I was only there for an hour or so.

    How the heck do I get through this day feeling like this.

    1. LCL*

      For me, drinking hot water and nibbling on carbs including sweets (crackers, popcorn, cookies, etc) helps those feelings. When you are ready have a light meal.
      When you feel better, talk to the pharmacist about the cough medicine and try to figure out what you reacted to in it. A lot of cough medicines have multiple ingredients and you may not be sensitive to all of them. I’m guessing you had something with Sudafed but maybe not.
      I’m sorry you are feeling bad.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Ugh, that’s what Zyrtec (for allergies) and Nyquil (if I don’t have enough time to sleep it off) do to me. It sucks. I drink lots of water and coffee if I get too draggy later in the day, or tea.

      1. Amber Rose*

        I’m drinking as much water as I can stand.

        Cough medicine doesn’t always do this to me, it only seems to do it when I’ve been sick for a while without taking anything. Like, the more work it has to do to relieve the cold symptoms, the more hungover I feel. There’s no science in that, it’s just how it seems to work for me. :/

  69. Valentina*

    I want to ask for a raise. The issue is, I suspect I’m already pretty well paid compared to my coworkers. I was recruited from abroad and they gave me a good starting salary. I’ve been here 3 years and have gotten cost of living increases since. I’ve taken on a lot of responsibility and I’ve grown a lot in my role. But anytime I think about asking for a raise I get the uncomfortable feeling I’m being greedy because I’m already well compensated. At the same time, I’m a young woman in finance (6 years experience total, I’m 29) and I don’t want to fall into the trap of never advocating for myself. Anyone have any advice? I go back and forth between feel like it would be asking too much and feeling like I’m not asking enough!

    1. anyone out there but me*

      Here’s my advice:

      1. Go in with at least 3 solid reasons why you are deserving of a raise. These reasons should be based on how you have benefited the company.

      2. Be prepared to be told no. Be ready to deal with that, either by negotiating further, negotiating a discussion about it at a later time, or accepting no as a final answer.

      3. If you are thinking you will leave if you don’t get a raise, be prepared to follow through.

      Good luck!

    2. CM*

      Ask! If you’re in finance they shouldn’t be shocked that you’re trying to negotiate. Is there any way you can get more information about other people’s salaries in your company or industry? That could both make you feel more comfortable about asking, and give you some data to strengthen your case.

    3. Let's Sidebar*

      This may be obvious, but since you didn’t mention it I will ask; What is your pay comparative to market compensation with your experience level? If you are well compensated compared to that (as opposed to your coworkers), that would be useful information to know. Also, if you feel close enough to any coworkers in your position to broach what for some (silly) reason is a delicate topic, discuss what you make with one another so you can use it internally as a gauge.
      Good luck!

  70. Sualah*

    An update on my job situation from an open thread a few weeks ago, where I wasn’t sure if I should accept an internal transfer (if offered) due to pregnancy. (Because we can take 4 months leave, and is that a good look to take it when being fairly new, and because my current position is great, and I have no complaints, and I can do this job with my eyes closed–or on very little sleep, which will be the bigger issue with an infant at home. ;P)

    Well, in the interview (I would be working in a different state from my manager, so it was over the phone), I modified some verbiage from Alison about feeling out low-stress roles and was upfront that I didn’t want to be presumptuous, but I have a baby due in the spring and I will take 4 months off since that is our company benefit. I said that in the past, I’ve worked jobs with 50-60 hour weeks, and that I simply wasn’t looking for that at this time. That I wanted to consider all aspects of the role and make sure that it’s a great fit for both of us.

    The hiring manager, S, was really great, she said that she definitely understood that, that her expectation and experience is that the role would be a fairly standard 40 hours, and she appreciated the question. I probably could have asked the same sort of question about work/life balance and flexibility without bring the pregnancy into it, but since I’d only be working for S about 4 months before being gone for 4 months, I figured it was worth it to bring up as well.

    My current manager, M, was very supportive when I told her that she’d be getting contacted about a reference, but she did say that if she could get her grandboss to agree, she’d like to promote me to the next level with a raise effective immediately. There would be no change to my job duties, but I’d be getting more and have a better title. I said I would accept that and not accept the new job offer if that happened.

    So I was just waiting to see who would give me more money, basically. Which, again, is a very fortunate and exciting position to be in. But…long story short (too late), there was a twist.

    On a Thursday morning, we got news that about 1/3 of our entire department was being laid off company wide. I was not one of the impacted employees, though. So mid-morning, hear that three coworkers on my team are being let go in 60 days. Shortly after, M called me to say with the layoffs, she could not offer me a raise and promotion and to congratulate me on the offer and told me I should take it. I’m like, “Uh…what?” Because no one had reached out to me yet! She apologized but said that S had told her that S would be offering me the position, and M had agreed to the two week transition period.

    I heard nothing else all afternoon. I didn’t get a call until early evening my time (the recruiter was based on the west coast) to let me know I should expect an offer letter the next day, Friday. Which of course I did not get until Monday. And the new role was going to be a lateral move, with no increase in pay at all. Sigh. I knew it would be lateral and I knew the pay scale when I applied, but I had been hoping for a token $1000 annual increase or something.

    Still, with the layoffs, I was happy to accept and I start my new position Monday.

    1. CAA*

      Sorry the new job didn’t come with a raise. If it helps, you might think of it as your move is saving one colleague’s job in M’s department. If you hadn’t been about to leave, she’d have had to lay off 4 instead of 3.

      1. Sualah*

        Yeah, that is true! :) Because I hadn’t accepted (because I hadn’t been offered) the new job when they had to announce the layoffs, they did have to do go with layoffs as previously planned (because I could have decided to stay, even without the raise and promotion). However, since I did accept and the transfer process was started, they’re going to be able to pull back someone. I can’t say if it will be one of the people I know personally on M’s team, but someone in the 1/3 that was laid off will get their job back, and that’s always a good thing.

  71. Auburn*

    I’m curious how other people manage stress when they have a lot of customer service aspects to their job. I’m a program director at a nonprofit working in a healthcare related field. We have “clients” not really customers in the traditional sense, but a lot of similarities to a customer service field in many ways. I’m upper management and get all the escalations, complaints, drama etc. I just often feel like I literally get beaten up on all day. We have extremely limited resources so we have very, very little wiggle room. It’s very demoralizing feeling like someone, either the staff I supervise or the clients I serve are always being shortchanged. I’m feeling beaten up by it all this week.

  72. peanutbutter*

    I have a coworker who keeps adding filler comments and jokes during the meeting, and it drives me nuts. During the beginning of meetings, he’ll go beyond the usual “Hellos” and make an extended pun joke. I’d be ok with this, but during heavy agendas, he’ll just have to add a silly comment and derail the conversation. He also goes way overboard in thanking people for every single thing. For example, a part of our process is handing off work for testing – it’s a normal thing and really business as usual – and he’ll go into a long thank you about the work being completed and even shouting huzzah.

    1. AnonAndOn*

      I wonder if an awkward pause after one of his random comments then continuing on as usual would help.

      Guy: “Hello! Not too long after that I’ll be saying ‘goodbye’!”
      (awkward pause from the group)
      Person leading meeting: “Anyway. Moving along…”

      And who is leading these meetings? I feel that the meeting leader should say, “Joe, we need to keep the meeting moving” or something in those lines.

  73. Anonymousaurus Rex*

    Should I tell my boss if I apply for another job at my company? I feel like she’s likely to find out, even though the position I’d be applying for is in another part of our Fortune 500 company. The job isn’t a perfect fit and is a reach for me, but the reason I’m so interested is that it is a remote position (as well as a promotion) and my partner is in the process of applying for grad school, so that could mean a move for us, depending on where she gets in. I don’t want to tip off my boss too early that I’m job searching, and the reality is if my partner gets into a program in our state I might not have to switch jobs at all. I’m only considering applying for this position now as remote prospects I’m qualified for at my company are few and far between. I’d rather stay at my company, as I’ve only been in my position just shy of 2 years, but I do want to advance. I’m just not sure whether I should tip off my boss about my unsure plans.

    My boss tends to take things really personally, especially departures on her team, so I don’t want her to start treating me differently if she knows I’m considering a job change. Then again, if I can fully explain the context and she gets it’s nothing against her as a manager, maybe she could help support a move? I just can’t decide what to do!

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I would check if there’s an official policy on when to tell them. You might be required to.

    2. CAA*

      See my answer to Applesauced above. It’s highly likely that your boss will find out as soon as you apply, especially if you’re in a large company with sophisticated applicant tracking software. You do not want her to find out by getting an email from HR or a phone call from the hiring manager; so either tell her yourself or wait until your plans are firm before applying for new jobs.

  74. MsChanandlerBong*

    I would love some advice on doing a better job screening people for writing positions. Background: I work for a company that produces content for other companies. We write everything from product descriptions to category pages to website copy. Currently, we ask writers to send a resume and cover letter. Someone reviews those materials and then decides if the writer should move on to the next phase, which is a writing test. The test is designed to assess writing ability as well as the ability to follow directions. Good writing is important, but I would argue that following directions is even more important for us, as some of our clients have VERY specific requirements (the meta title must be no more than 40 characters, the first sentence must have exactly 12 words, that sort of thing). If the writing sample is good and adheres to the instructions, we bring the writer on board and offer a three-assignment trial period. During that period, editors give extensive feedback to help the writer get up to speed on in-house style, formatting guidelines, and client-specific conventions. If the writer passes the trial period, we keep him/her on board.

    However, we have had to fire 10 people in the last 10 days due to everything from plagiarism to submitting assignments that did not conform to the directions in the slightest. We ARE doing assessments, but they are obviously not working as intended. Any suggestions?

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Do your assignments include specific requirements like ensuring the first sentence has 12 words or similar ones? If not, adding them might help you winnow people out earlier.

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        Absolutely. We have extensive training materials. IMO, they are *too* extensive, but I have no control over them. I was hired as a freelancer before I came on board as a manager, and it took me two months to get up the nerve to start writing because everything seemed so daunting. Plus, we give feedback on every task. So if I see a task from Joe Smith that doesn’t have the right number of characters in the title, I leave a note when I approve it: “Hi Joe. Thanks for taking on this task. Good job on the content. Please remember that you must write no more than 20 characters in the title field for this client.” So even if they missed it in the training/style guide, we give direct feedback/reminders. It’s just so frustrating.

        1. Yorick*

          I would word that feedback differently:

          Joe, thanks for taking on this task. The content is great, but some revisions are necessary. 1. Client has asked for the title field to be no more than 20 characters. 2. Client has asked for the first sentence to have exactly 12 words. To speed up the process, please remember you can check [location] for all the client’s instructions for the assignment.

          1. MsChanandlerBong*

            I would word it differently, too, but I recently got told that I shouldn’t “talk to writers like I am God,” so I’ve had to start being more flowery/less direct. (Talking like God = telling a writer “Please do not use X as a source, as it is prohibited by the client.”)

        2. Ramona Flowers*

          Are you sending it back and making them revise it to the right length? If not – time to start?

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Been there. Expect to keep having to fire some people. I have no idea why it’s so hard to find writers who will follow requirements like these but it isn’t just you.

    3. Toodie*

      This summer we hired a new tech writer but had to let him go, too. Our hiring process started with resume, cover letter and writing samples. Applicants who made it past that review were brought in for interviews, and then we hired.
      The dude we hired had the best writing samples by far: clean, clear, simple language, all the things we were looking for. But his writing on the job wasn’t even close to that level. Next time, our process will include an in-house writing test. And that’s one thing I was going to ask: is your writing test done during an interview, or do you send materials to the applicants and have them complete the tests in private? I can’t help but think that we were buffaloed by someone who’d gotten an awful lot of “help” with his writing samples.

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        They’re independent contractors who work off-site, so everything is done online. However, it is a timed test (one hour), so unless the writer happened to be at home with their spouse or a friend, it would be hard to get too much help because they wouldn’t know what the prompt was until they clicked the assessment link and the clock started ticking.

    4. Yorick*

      Try an in-house writing test that includes some of those instructions, so you can see how well they follow directions.

  75. NaoNao*

    Interview/red flag question.
    This may be for nothing as I may not get a follow up (it’s a bit of a stretch post) but…

    I got a recruitment call from a headhunter yesterday. The posted position is in the high almost 6 figures and is a hybrid of my current job and previous work I’ve done—dialed up a couple notches. So far so good.

    The first thing out of the recruiter’s mouth after the pleasantries is…(summarized)

    “We need someone who can handle construction workers, who use blue language, and not be offended.” He then followed it up with a reference to “all the allegations lately” and I was like (mentally) “So you’re pretty much saying I’ll be harassed?!?!”

    I *believe* what he may have been trying to say (a charitable interpretation) is that he needs someone down to earth and who doesn’t confused “blue” or off color language and jokes and a certain….earthy…atmosphere with actual harassment and a hostile work environment.

    That actually *is* me, I work in a very male dominated environment and with blue-collar, hands-on, manual labor guys (and it’s 99% male in the field) as clients and I have had zero issues. Sure, I’ve heard things that made me wince internally on occasion, but I’ve never been deeply offended. Yet!

    The job sounds super exciting and interesting and I *am* interested in it, and Company was voted best Co. in my state and doesn’t have negative Glassdoor notes, and nothing else was “flaggy” about the pre-screen but eeeeeeekkkkk that’s a flag.

    Any thoughts? Similar situations?

    1. Anon for this*

      WHAT?! That would be a giant nope for me. This is actually really scary and I would be running away from there so fast. I also might be complaining about the recruiter to his boss if I could.

    2. AnotherJill*

      He may have just been saying (in a ham-handed way) that due to all the resent publicity about harassment they wanted to be sure that they found someone not easily offended. I wouldn’t turn down an interview, but would keep my spidey sense turned on.

    3. SilverRadicand*

      I think ask for clarification on that statement. Hoepfully he is meaning the allegations in the news and such and not actually at that company. If you are fine with that kind of environment, then more power to you.

      However, I do want to point out that if the “earthy” atmosphere you are referring to includes racial, sexual, jokes, statements etc on the regular, then that is a hostile work environment and/or sexual harassment. Intent does not need to be there. Also, by choosing to work in that sort of environment will help continue to normalize those behaviors and may be doing a disservice to others who follow your footsteps.

      1. NaoNao*

        Absolutely agree. I’m a feminist and firmly on the “I believe women” side. I tend to think this was his roundabout way of making sure that I have a strong personality and am comfortable with swear words and can differentiate between f-bombs and a hostile work environment.

        If/when I make it to the Hiring Manager interview, you can believe I’ll be asking what he meant by that!

    4. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      Maybe you could be very blunt with him and say that you don’t have a problem with off color language and questionable jokes, but you expect to be treated as a colleague and that people will keep their hands to themselves?

      I’ve worked in similar environments, and while I am not bothered by that sort of thing I am also clear about the boundaries. A crude joke in the abstract is one thing; insulting me with gendered terms, touching, implying that sexual favors are expected is quite another. If they are asking whether you can deal with an environment that isn’t very refined then I’d assume that they can take very blunt questions.

    5. CheeryO*

      I think it’s really gross that he mentioned “all the allegations” in an interview setting, but I would interpret it charitably as well, as long as you didn’t sense any other weirdness. I’m a female engineer in the wastewater field (I’ve also done construction inspections), and a very small minority of people love to make a big deal out of it. “Hope you can handle dirty jokes!” is right up there with “Wow, steel-toed boots!” and “Are you sure you don’t mind getting dirty?” In reality, most of the guys are extremely respectful and are probably even a little more careful with what they say around me than they need to be.

      Side note, one of my favorite work experiences was when I was doing an inspection at a wastewater treatment plant and the operator realized that he was sitting next to a naked lady calendar while we were talking. Best “oh shit!” look I’ve ever seen, especially since he desperately needed me to help him put pressure on the municipality to increase his operating budget.

      1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

        Ha, I understand that very well! Yes of course I’m prepared to be filthy at the end of the day and I will be wearing exactly the same standard of PPE as the men, thanks… *eyeroll*

  76. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

    Didn’t get the internship I applied for a few weeks ago. I wasn’t super interested in it and don’t actually care much, but I’m really frustrated with how hard it is to find a job here (admittedly with harsh visa restrictions). For library work, the career center is steering me toward volunteering, which in theory I wouldn’t have a problem with, but it’s one thing to volunteer when you also have a job and another thing when you’d basically be paying to work (Tube rides ain’t free :P) and have no income coming in at all. And with my schedule and visa restrictions, I’m seeing basically next to no non-library work I can do. I’m not about to be homeless or anything, just cranky and feeling unsupported.

  77. Question for Allison*

    I hope this counts as a work question since its a question about Allison’s work.

    Allison I’ve noticed that some of the questions you answer get many more comments than others. I wonder if you are ever surprised by which questions get the most comments/responses from readers or by what those responses are?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Sometimes, yes! I used to think I was pretty good at predicting it, but in the last couple of years, I’ve found myself surprised more often. The most extreme example of something I didn’t see coming was the reaction to the bird phobia post — in retrospect, I have no idea how.

  78. mollsbot*

    Happy Friday all!!

    I work front desk at a doctor’s office, and I’ve really gotten to know some of the patients over the last few years. I’m moving onward and upward, my last day is next Friday.

    My question is: Would it be weird if I wrote a little letter for my colleagues to give patients that ask about me after I’m gone? Something saying that I enjoyed my time here, and if they want to get in touch with me they can send me an email.

    Thoughts?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      It’s a lovely idea, but I wouldn’t offer to share your email. My boundaryometer is flashing red at that. Why not have one copy of the letter that can go on a noticeboard?

      1. mollsbot*

        That’s a great idea! There are certain patients that I would not mind having my email, but you’re right, not everyone should have access to that (my rose colored glasses for my patients skewed my thinking for a second! lol). I can just advise my colleagues that if someone asked how they can get a hold of me to use their best judgement or just shoot me a text asking first.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I firmly recommend having them text you first. A coworker once gave my phone number to someone she thought I might like without asking me, and it turned out to be a very strange guy who gave me the heebie-jeebies. So no.

        2. Ellen Ripley*

          Or just ask them to collect the patient’s email with a promise to pass it on to you, and then you can decide later whether you want to be in touch and reveal your email to them.

  79. rosiebyanyothername*

    I know there’s been quite a few letters about this topic, but I have a food allergy and managing it at the office has been a little stressful. I usually avoid eating at after-work events because it’s a severe allergy and my office is not close to a hospital. Sometimes my office tries to make me pick a restaurant, and I do my best to call ahead, but sometimes I just don’t feel comfortable with anything on the menu, and when a reaction means 4-6 hours in the hospital and a scary bill afterwards, I just don’t want to risk it. I’m always very direct that I do not want anyone planning around my allergy or feeling they cannot run XYZ event because of me, I don’t want to be a burden, I’m fine with just being there and having a beer, I’ll bring food from home, etc etc etc, but to no avail. Sometimes I just skip these events because I’m not in the mood to field “wait, why aren’t you eating?” questions all night. But I still want to socialize with my coworkers! I just can’t shake the feeling everyone sees me as a burden with this stuff. Advice?

    1. Epsilon Delta*

      What kind of event is it? The after-work socializing events I’ve been to have all been happy-hour type things, but it sounds like you guys are maybe sitting down and having a meal together? It sounds like you already tried the obvious workarounds (have a drink instead of food, bring your own food), so I’m curious why they are so fixated on you eating the food that’s served.

      1. rosiebyanyothername*

        They’re usually a round of drinks with appetizers, or receptions with finger foods. Some staff members aren’t drinkers and I guess they don’t want people drinking on empty stomachs. I work in an office of “food pushers”–at these events, or just around the office in general, lots of colleagues love to get people to eat. When I turn down food or say “I don’t think I can eat that,” I often get pushback or “well, it’s PROBABLY okay, just taste it” comments. I’ve dealt with food pushers a lot, it’s kind of just a fact of life, but I always worry that people think I’m cold or rude for turning stuff down, even when I explain my allergy! I might try using an Alison change-the-subject “this is so boring, let’s talk about something else” strategy going forward, but I also don’t want to dismiss my own health just to make other people feel comfortable. Ugh!

        1. Colette*

          Can you bring things you can eat that look similar to the offered food (crackers, veggies)?

          Can you say something like “oh, last time I had Food I got sick. It’s not an experience I want to repeat!”

        2. Not So NewReader*

          When they push back, you can upgrade your response to something firmer. Match what you see coming at you. “Oh, I am sorry, I was trying not to offend anyone. I am on a very limited diet and I go by what the doc says to do. So no, I will not be partaking.”

          But I would also say to start out with a stronger statement, “No, sorry. I can’t eat that.” If you say you don’t think you can eat something that almost invites an opening for them to second guess you. Say it in a manner that indicates you have decided that X thing is not for you.

  80. Shia*

    How do you build up confidence as a freelancer?

    I’m an illustrator, and am starting to be a professional. I know my art is of a decent quality, but each time I try to apply for a job or to enter a contest I get terrified I won’t be good enough.

    I already have a regular commissioner, but they stumbled into me by chance on a forum, and our interaction hasn’t exactly been a formal one. It’s served me to know that I CAN be professional and attentive when given the chance, the problem is gathering up the courage to attract customers myself.

    1. Traveling Teacher*

      As a fellow freelancer: just do the new job and do it well. If you can’t do it, then you will know. If you can but it takes you an unreasonable amount of time, you’ll know what to change about your rates or to not accept that type of job again. And if you can do it and get it done in a reasonable amount of time, then keep going, :)

      It’s great that you have a steady client–from my experience, that’s the best way to find more work. You can always send them a line saying that you really appreciate their business and that if they know anyone else who’s looking, you’d love to expand your contacts/take on more clients/whatever sounds most natural to you. Chances are, if they’re good to work for, they’ll know other people who are good to work for, and so on, :)

      Also, don’t spend time worrying about contests. Pretend that you’ll never hear from them again if you do enter. At least, that’s what I do, and it works, :)

  81. Wolfey*

    How do y’all answer this typical interview question: “How do you balance multiple deadlines and clients at work?”

    I hate this one because I hate multi-tasking and usually worked on only one project (albeit with a ton of competing sub-projects) at a time. So I would ask for clarity on priorities and expected time frames from higher ups and then just work thoroughly on whatever was in front of me. As a junior employee, important judgement calls on priorities were not my purview.

    I gave a version of this answer at a recon interview and think I fumbled it.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Before I got my current job I spent two years juggling postgrad study, a freelance business with multiple clients, a part-time job and a volunteer role so I think I’m pretty good at juggling stuff.

      It sounds like you are focusing on the balancing part – what to priorities and what to focus on – when this question is often more about how you organise and keep track of things. I remember a friend was helping me prep for job interviews and we talked about this. I said: but the things I could say are so obvious, aren’t they? And she said nope. You wouldn’t believe how many people don’t even make to do lists.

      This is a question about whether you can be trusted to honour commitments and to remember what they are. Can you keep track of deadlines? Do you forget to do things or only start them at the last minute? It’s not rocket science – rather, it’s about getting the basics right.

      My answer to this question is simple. I keep a to-do list – a good one. It’s not a list of outcomes. A complete project is an outcome. My to-do list consists of actions. And then I put them in my calendar.

    2. Red Reader*

      There has been no point since 2005 where I wasn’t both working full-time (and sometimes more) and a full-time student (and sometimes more). I had two really entertaining years in the middle of it where I was working a 40 hour a week career job, a 25 hour a week retail job, a 10 hour a week volunteer gig, and in school 20 credit-hours per trimester (when full-time was 12). During that two years, I pulled a promotion at the career job and maintained president’s list (3.7+ GPA). For the last two years, I’ve been full-time in management for a team of 20, with a 10-hours-a-week supplemental gig helping out another team in my org, and full-time in grad school working on two masters simultaneously.

      Everything gets written down. I live and die by the to-do list and 11 calendars that sync to my phone, my tablet, and my computer. (And I pay someone else to vacuum the floors and clean the bathrooms. Best decision I ever made.)

    3. CM*

      You can say, “As a junior employee, I make sure I understand what the priorities are and where I should be focusing my attention. I also keep detailed lists so I don’t miss tasks or deadlines [or whatever else you do to organize yourself, calendar reminders, etc.]. I try to identify what’s most important to the clients and my supervisors, and what the real deadlines are, so that I don’t get distracted by fire drills or artificial deadlines.”

      If you literally said what you wrote above, it signals to me, “I can’t handle this type of balance. I rely completely on other people’s judgment and don’t use my own.” I think you can just change the way you say it, and definitely don’t mention that you hate multi-tasking. Or you could be more candid and say something like, “Multi-tasking isn’t my strong suit, but it’s a reality and here’s how I deal with it,” with examples.

  82. KatieKate*

    I have a very cool job from High School that is still on my resume. I find that it shows off some cool skills, and it’s not related to my current job ambitions but I think (?) it starts some cool conversations. But it’s approaching 10 years since the job–should I take it off?

    (I work in nonprofits, the job was working on a film production)

    1. Sualah*

      I’m curious to see what replies you get–I have a mostly non-related job from 10 years on my resume, too, because it was teaching English in Japan. I have not had an interview yet where someone hasn’t referenced that, “So you taught in English in Japan, that must have been cool.”

      I have no illusions that this stint has gotten me any jobs back in America (I was in a lead teacher position for 9 months of it, so I suppose that shows some management/training experience, but that doesn’t really apply to my current job), but it does make me stick out in a good way based on the comments I’ve received, so I’ve left it on there. I don’t have all my job duties listed, I’ve cut it to just show things like the training/lead, and preparing and distributing reports; things that can sort of apply to most jobs, so it’s not totally out of place. Maybe.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I think I’d leave it off less because of it being 10 years ago and more because of it being during high school. I still list jobs from 10 years ago, but I was in the workforce as an adult way out of college.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I would leave it off, especially because it’s unrelated to the jobs you’re applying to. That said, even if it’s not on your résumé, if you find a legit (not awkward or forced) way to bring it up in the interview, that can still lead to cool conversations down the line.

      1. KatieKate*

        My other worry is that my resume is still pretty short. I have:
        1. Current job
        2. Former job at same company
        3. College internship
        4. College Job
        5. High School Job

        Is that not too short if I lose 5?

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          I don’t think it’s too short. Current job, five bullet points; former job, 3-4 bullet points; college internship, 3-4 bullet points; college job, 3-4 bullet points.

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            I’d actually say since there are fewer jobs, each job can take up more space. As I got more experience, I ended up having to trim a bunch of my bullet points on older jobs.

  83. Cruciatus*

    I need help with how to deal with a slow to catch on part time coworker. It’s been 4/5 months and she’s not getting it. She won’t use the manuals. She won’t use her own &(*&#$ notes! She’s regressing somehow too, based on the work left for me on Monday. I do not work in rocket science. Everything is in the manuals. I AM frustrated and she mentioned how I was frustrated weeks ago (because I handed her a manual to look something up instead of just answering her for every issue she has (and there are a lot of issues. She makes issues out of non-issues)). I have done real life examples with her often–first me doing it, then while watching her doing it. She actually started to get it. I used the manuals while we did them. This isn’t day 2. It’s month 4/5 (though it’s true we don’t see her a lot since she’s part time–but still). I do the same tasks every day. I used the manuals myself until I was sure I got it, so there’s no shame there. She even commented that I mention using them a lot (YOU THINK!?). Supervisor agrees she’s not catching on (but I don’t think she’s about to lose her job or anything). I want to scream I’m so frustrated at her inability to pick up a manual or her own notes. She just shuts down. I don’t think my supervisor will step in for this, though, as I said, she understands my frustration and doesn’t think it’s me. So basically when I see her next I’ll have to basically go back to the beginning of each process (of which there are not many steps! Or processes!). I’m having trouble not being a bitch about it in my mind and I don’t know how to keep that in check. And I don’t know what else to do with this person. If anyone has any advice I would love to hear it. Annnnd I feel like a terrible person…

    1. Jen RO*

      I just wrote a very similar thing further down… so I feel your pain! I am guessing you are not this person’s manager, right?

      Step 1, I would go to the manager, if you haven’t already.
      Step 2, I would suddenly be very busy whenever she asks a question that is covered in the manuals. “Sorry, I’m swamped, but I think this is mentioned in chapter 3! Good luck!”. Sometimes, when my slow-learner report was particularly annoying, I took a 15-minute smoke break. Miraculously, upon my return she had managed to finish whatever she was trying to do.

    2. Goya*

      Ugh…no advice, only empathy. I was in a similar situation and my bosses idea was to reduce part-time’s hours so it affected us less. Which only lead to more “not catching on” since she wasn’t doing the work as often!

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Have you directly asked her why she isn’t using the manuals? Does she not find them useable?

      1. DDJ*

        I’m wondering about this as well. Is the reference guide all just blocks of text? Is there a digital copy that’s easy to search? Are there screenshots? Some people are much more visual. I found that once I reworked a few procedure guides, people become much more willing to use them.

        Sometimes it’s a case of “I know that if I ask Cruciatus, she’ll be able to tell me in 10 seconds are less, but if I have to try to remember where it is in this paper copy guide, I’m going to end up spending a half hour just trying to remember where I saw it.”

        And it’s a lot different when you’re doing the same thing every day versus dealing with something once every few weeks. It’s harder to retain when you’re not doing it as often. Now, do I think someone should have a handle on things after 4/5 months? Yes. But she doesn’t. So something isn’t clicking. Maybe it’s a case of letting her know “Hey, take this copy of the guide, highlight stuff, make your own notes in it, it’s yours! Use sticky flags to bookmark sections you seem to use more often.” People really do learn in a lot of different ways.

        And…good luck.

        1. All Hail Queen Sally*

          I agree completely. I was in the military ages ago, and every little thing we did was covered in our regulations, but it was impossible to find anything as they were just “boring blocks of text.”. I had my workers make “continuity books” that contained diagrams, examples, copies of forms, etc., everything written out in the employee’s own words so that they could understand it better. They were very successful.

    4. Mockingjay*

      At this point I would let her fail.

      Sounds harsh. But look at how much time and effort you’ve invested already and she still doesn’t get it. Let her fail and let your supervisor deal with her. When she asks for help, be unavailable and do not provide the solution. “Sorry, I have to finish the TPS report. Check the manual. It should have what you need.” Repeat.

      You’ve trained her, you’ve provided references. There has to be a cutoff point by which she’s expected to do her job. I think you’ve reached it.

  84. Temperance*

    Not strictly work-related, but quasi work related: I’m running for an open position in a social/professional org. I have a lot more experience than my opponent, and far more relevant experience than he does. Getting this position would also give me some access to career advancement, it’s something I would be amazing at, and I would definitely help the org advance our cause.

    The org has an event coming up. I need to meet prospective voters at this thing, and presumably, my opponent will be there as well. I know how to network and meet new career/professional people, but how do you do this smoothly in this situation, so I can meet people and ask for their votes?

    The ONLY leg up that my opponent has on me is that he was in a frat, and I’m kind of weird and awkward.

    1. OtterB*

      I’d think about the ways you would like to help the org advance and how you are qualified to do that, and have an elevator speech ready about those.

      1. zora*

        Oh yeah, definitely have an elevator speech ready for if they start asking you questions. And have some kind of business card, sticker, flyer ready to hand out to people at the end of conversations, I always ask for something physical because I have an easier time remembering names when I see them written.

    2. zora*

      I would pose your conversations with people as asking THEM questions, rather than asking for their votes. Open with “Hi, I’m Temperance and I’m running for Sublime Llama Minister. I wanted to get to know more of the members, and get your thoughts about how things are going, and what you’d like to see change. How do you think things are going?”

      And think of some specific but open-ended questions you can ask that will get conversations going. After you introduce yourself people will likely also start asking you about your positions, but make it more of a conversation rather than thinking about is as asking for votes. People will consequently be wayyy more likely to vote for the person they had a substantive conversation with than the guy who’s just walking around schmoozing and talking about himself! ;o) Good Luck!!

          1. zora*

            Sure thing!! I’m glad my political/nonprofit experience can be helpful to someone these days! ;o) Best of luck, I hope we hear from you soon that you won!!

    3. General Organa*

      I think you would network basically the same way you ordinarily would. Talk about what’s going on in the org otherwise, talk about what you do and what they do, and then towards the end (or during the conversation, if it comes up organically–maybe try to pivot toward whatever your platform topics are) mention in a cheerful, low-key way that you’re running and you’d appreciate their vote.

      As a side note, I think I remember from other comments here that you’re a pro bono coordinator? Could I ask how you made your way to that job? I’m a lawyer with a few years’ experience at a large firm but would like to pivot to something more public interest-related.

      1. CM*

        I’d do the opposite! I’d start with, “Hi, I’m Temperance, and I’m running for X.” Most people would follow up with questions so you can talk about your candidacy. If the conversation turns to something completely different, then before you walk away, you can say, “It was great talking to you. I hope you’ll vote for me for X, I’d be happy to talk with you about it if you have any questions or suggestions.”

      2. Temperance*

        I am! I really love my job.

        I kind of actually just fell into it by chance. I did a lot of public interest in law school, and had an internship at a large firm (in pro bono) my 3L year. They just happened to have a position open up while I was studying for the bar.

        Most of the other pro bono professionals that I know either did a LOT of pro bono while in biglaw, or worked at a legal services org.

  85. Annie Moose*

    It’s that time of year again! At my company, there’s this annual thing at Christmas where one of the directors collects donations (that are strongly encouraged) from all employees to be donated to charities in the name of the owners. The charities aren’t announced ahead of time, although last year I asked and the director gave me the list of what he was planning to pick from. If you don’t donate soon enough, you’ll get another email to pressure you, and then he’ll come hunt you down in person. The email explicitly says that the only exceptions are if you’re an intern or have “extenuating financial circumstances”.

    (for what it’s worth: I don’t think this is a tax grab or something like that; I genuinely think it comes from an honest place and the director who organizes it just has never actually stopped to think about the weirdness of pressuring subordinates to donate in their bosses’ names. It’s a relatively small company that’s been growing fast over the past couple of years, so there’s still some weird small-business mentality around)

    On one hand: this company pays me well enough that $20 isn’t a big deal to my bank account, and the charities chosen last year were perfectly unobjectionable to me. Under other circumstances, I’d have no problem donating to them.
    On the other hand: I really hate how they do this. I don’t think it’s right to ask people to donate without clearly stating what charities the money will go to; even though it’s a donation to charity, I still think it’s gifting up; and I don’t think it’s right to force people to donate to a charity anyway. I donate a lot of money every year to charities I myself choose, and I don’t see why I should have to donate to a charity I didn’t pick. (also, one of the charities last year was an explicitly Christian one–as a Christian, I’m fine with this, but I wonder about my non-Christian coworkers)

    Last year, I had only been working here for about a month, so I felt uncomfortable saying anything. This year, I feel in a much stronger position to push back on it if the director comes around to hassle me. But I need to know what to say! I feel like he’s going to do the whole “it’s only 20 bucks, it goes to a good cause, it’s not really gifting up, blah blah blah” thing, so I want to be prepared.

    I’ve also been considering sending an email to our HR person and being like, “hey, this tradition makes me uncomfortable [because Wakeen pressures people into it] and it’s gifting up, which I’m not comfortable doing, blah blah blah”, so if you have suggestions on how to word that, I’d happily accept those too. I’ll definitely include a link to AAM’s previous posts on gifting up as well!

    1. Ghost Town*

      When you’re confronted with the request, it seems like a good place for the “I’ve already allocated my charitable giving for the year” line I’ve seen on AAM before.

    2. Murphy*

      Ugh, yeah. That kind of pressure really isn’t cool. I’d probably mention that people may not feel comfortable disclosing their “extenuating financial circumstances”, and it’s really not fair to ask them to do so.

    3. rosiebyanyothername*

      I do wonder about charity giving and how that intersects with office politics. There are some groups I don’t feel comfortable giving to due to my own political views, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable broadcasting that to coworkers who might not know my leanings. Harassing people to give, no matter the cause, would get my goat, though.

    4. anyone out there but me*

      Wow. But who gets to determine if your “extenuating financial circumstances” are worthy enough to bow out? And how much detail do you have to give about your circumstances? What a load of BS. I would refuse just because I only donate to specific charities and if they cannot guarantee that my $20 is going to one of them, then I’m not interested. And I’d tell them my finances are a personal matter and none of their business. I have a feeling if you stick firmly to this, they’ll back down.

    5. HannahS*

      I’ve had to email my school program administrators twice so far this year about some fairly significant screw-ups on their part. I think what worked was that I started by acknowledging the good work that the dean and alumni committee were doing, and then going into “I’m writing because I feel that XYZ was inappropriate” and then detailing what happened, why I’m concerned about it, and what I think should be done. The language was very “I’m concerned” “It is inappropriate” “It may lead to…” and not very emotional. The strongest thing I said was “I was upset.”
      So maybe something like, “Every year, [detail what, exactly Wakeen does]. I appreciate Wakeen’s good intentions in encouraging us to give to charity, but I feel that this is inappropriate for the workplace. I am concerned about [people feeling pressured, etc.–honestly I wouldn’t even raise the issue of religious charities, because they might latch on to that and think ‘Oh good, we can improve this by choosing non-denominational charities’ but your goal in writing to HR is getting this to stop entirely]. I feel strongly that people at work should not be pressure by their superiors to spend their salaries in a certain way. I would appreciate if we could discontinue this tradition.”

    6. Rusty Shackelford*

      So the owners get to make a big donation, and get the associated tax benefit, and it costs them nothing? I’d emphasize that aspect, instead of the “gifting up” part.

      In fact, I might say “Last year my accountant said I couldn’t take the charitable donation deduction, since I didn’t have a receipt. She said I need to get a receipt this year from the chosen charity for the amount of my donation.”

    7. OtterB*

      Another possibility is to just go along this year, since you don’t have a huge problem with the amount or the charities, and then tackle it after the holidays instead of now when this year’s plan is already in progress. You participated this year because you see the good intent, but you have this, that, and the other problem with it and as the organization grows it’s something you think they should consider doing differently.

    8. Elizabeth West*

      It’s in THEIR names? And are you guys getting any recognition for your giving at all? It’s absolutely a tax grab. And forcing people to donate to an explicitly Christian organization? That’s a ride on the Nope train to I-Don’t-Think-So Town.

      I’d be job hunting. This is a damn deal breaker for me.

      1. Annie Moose*

        The owners themselves don’t organize this and I’m willing to trust they didn’t start the tradition. (they’re not included on the email that’s sent out asking for donations, and I genuinely don’t know if they know he’s pressuring people into contributing, or if they think it’s all voluntary) It’s one of the directors who takes it upon himself to organize it and choose the charities every year.

        Like I said, due to the circumstances I’m pretty sure the tradition was begun with good intentions. The company has otherwise been above-board and generally great to work for.

        1. H.C.*

          I’d be hard pressed to think the owners don’t have a hand it – at the very least, that director would have to check in with them to make sure they’re OK with the charities list.

      2. H.C.*

        Yeah, the “in their name” part makes me absolutely think it’s a tax grab.

        I’d keep saying “No”, rinse and repeat (or if I want to be generous, I’d inform them that I had already done my charitable giving for the year [to nonprofits of MY choosing]).

        1. Anion*

          I don’t know if it’s a tax grab or not, but the “in their names” part certainly makes me think these guys are kind of selfish jerks. So they strong-arm their employees into giving up their own money, and then they get *their* names on the list of Big Donors (or just the credit in general)? No. At the very least the name on the donation should be changed to “Teapots Consolidated,” rather than “Joe Teapot and Bob Kettle.”

          If you don’t get any love from HR on stopping the thing entirely, Annie Moose, I’d at least mention the fact that it makes you as an employee feel undervalued when the donation is in the names of the owners and not the whole company. I bet if you ask around you’ll find this bothers some of the other employees, too. I’d be *pissed* if I was forced to donate money to a charity* and then found out the person doing the collecting put it in their names only.

          (Note: I happily donate money to charity, lol, I don’t get upset about doing so in general. It’s just the way this is being done that’s objectionable. Just clarifying!)

    9. Annie Moose*

      Welp, I’ve sent off a note to the HR person (at the end of the day, because I am bad at confrontation!), using some of the wording you guys suggested. Thanks for the advice! I’ll see what comes of it, and if Wakeen really does come around to bug me.

      Glad to know I’m not off-base in thinking this is… off-base!

  86. Jen RO*

    I am looking for some advice on how to manage a report who is not performing well. He reports to my friend and I want to help her out with some ideas.

    I will begin with the fact that, in my country, the procedure for getting someone fired can last months – last time I asked, HR told me we need to have 2 failed PIP processes lasting 3 months each, with weekly check-ins… extremely time (and emotionally) consuming for the manager as well. The manager is not at all keen to go through this, so she has tried to support him in improving his performance… but it doesn’t look like it’s working.

    Some of the issues are:
    * He is unattentive. We are in writing/editing and he turns in work with spelling mistakes (that are even flagged by Word on his PC!).
    * Even when he spells things correctly, he does not understand the things he is writing about. He has been in the role for 1 year+ and, while it does have a steep learning curve, there are people with less seniority who are doing a better job.
    * Spends a lot of time away from his desk, mostly in the bathroom.
    * Keeps doing things he was told not to (e.g. manager tells him repeatedly that he needs to turn in his work by 5.30, he turns it in at 5.55 and expects manager to review it).
    * Says he knows he is not performing well, but he is making an effort.

    The manager cut him some slack in the past because, when he first joined, he was reporting to someone who is known to be unsupportive, but he has benefitted from hands-on help for more than 6 months and the progress in minimal. Complicating this is the fact that he once said that he has ADHD (we don’t know if it’s formally diagnosed or not) and the frequent breaks may or may not be due to some GI issues…

    So, I am asking the hive mind:
    * If he does have ADHD, what are some methods we can recommend for improving his work? The manager has suggested checklists, she even offered to help him draft the checklist, but (as far as we know) he hasn’t tried this.

    * If he hasn’t provided any proof that he has ADHD, do we have an ethical obligation to support him nonetheless? (For the record, I don’t know if we have an equivalent of the ADA.)

    * If he does have a medical issue that leads to frequent bathroom breaks, can the manager tell him that he needs to be more reliably available? He spends hours in the bathroom. Most of the things he does are not time-sensitive though and he does attend all his scheduled meetings.

    * Our goal-setting period is coming up soon. If you think he is salvageable, what goals do you think would be appropriate for him to choose?

    * …or is it just too late and he needs to be fired yesterday? Personally, I think he is never going to cut it, but I also understand my friend’s POV, that she doesn’t want to burden herself even further with the PIP. So far, my suggestion has been an honest conversation where she should tell him that he will simply not succeed in this company and that he should find another job.

    Thanks for reading – even the simple act of writing this down has helped organize my thoughts.

    1. Traveling Teacher*

      I empathize with the firing process problem. I, too, live in an EU country with those sorts of policies in place… In husband’s old job, there was an employee who had been employed for 20+ years for this exact reason. As the marketing director, he’d been actively losing the company money and opportunities for years. And yet, no one would actually fire him. They finally had to bite the bullet and let him go, but by that point the severance package was so large that my husband and 30 other employees got zero bonuses for nearly two years.

      tl;dr: if you let this go on for too long, everyone could be losing out on actual money, not just stress due to managing this person!

      Also, as someone who has been hired several times to picking up the slack (sometimes a LOT of slack) for people who a company/a school just won’t fire, his colleagues will thank you all for getting rid of him.

      If he does have a diagnosed medical condition, my response might be different (whether ADHD or GI issues), but having ADHD is not an excuse. It’s his problem, but he has to find a solution. Just because he has ADHD doesn’t mean that he gets to do whatever he wants!

      1. Jen RO*

        I don’t think it would be a money issue for us – if he is fired for cause, he wouldn’t get anything, and during layoffs, people got 3 salaries, nothing earth shattering. The most affected by this situation is his manager, actually… who ends up doing most of his work. (There is only one other person in his team and that person is not stellar either, but at least is making progress.)

    2. zora*

      I think if it was me I’d try to help my friend honestly evaluate how much time/energy he is costing now, vs. how much the PIP would cost. Because I think at this point, she is spending as much if not more time on him as the PIP would require and she might as well be taking steps to get him out of there and get someone who won’t take up so much of her time and energy!

      I understand where she is, it’s hard to see that when you’re in the middle of it. But seriously.. I mean, what are the options? She spends time writing a bunch of checklists for him, and then he STILL doesn’t use them and she starts the PIP anyway? Or, she just starts spending time writing out what he needs to meet on a weekly basis (deadlines, % of accuracy, etc) and starts the process moving, but at least she’d be looking toward a time 6 months from now when she’d be able to get rid of him? I personally would feel so much better having an end in sight than just being constantly stressed out checking and fixing his work.

    3. WellRed*

      As a writer/editor myself, I am going for the overly simple: writers that can can’t spell or meet deadlines aren’t worth the aggro.

      1. Jen RO*

        I completely agree – I hope that his manager will see the light too.

        (And Muphry’s law strikes again – “can can’t spell” :D I hope you don’t take this the wrong way – I think it’s hilarious how our usually impeccable spelling and style goes down the drain the moment we talk about it.)

    4. Kathenus*

      I’d suggest not focusing on the potential ADHD or the bathroom breaks. His supervisor should stick to what is required for him to succeed in his work, with specifics such as creating checklists for x, y and z by XX date; turning in work on time, period; having fewer than XX errors in a document, etc. If he then goes to her and says he needs accommodations for any conditions, fine, and she can work with him and HR on how to do that – but at the end of the day the discussion needs to be about the work product itself to take out all of the gray areas about WHY he’s not succeeding, and focus on WHAT he’s not succeeding at.

  87. shep*

    A coworker I’ve never had much interaction with gave me a hug after a meeting we had to discuss some side project I’d be helping her with.

    It didn’t really disrupt my personal space (although it easily could have), but was pretty awkward in an office context. (For additional context: we are both women, in an office predominately staffed by women.)

    I think hugging after a meeting speaks to the kind of well-worn, [sometimes overly familiar] office culture at my workplace. I like the culture for the most part (although I generally like to keep to myself), but I think hugging after a meeting is just bizarre. Most of the senior staff (this coworker included) have been here at least a decade, if not longer. There’s emphasis on company-sponsored charity work, variously themed fundraising pot lucks, wellness initiatives, etc.

    For the record, I think our office does a really good job of implementing these programs WITHOUT forcing participation/voluntoldism. I’ve never felt pressure to participate in anything I didn’t want to. (And aside from donating a few dollars here and there a few times a year, by and large, I don’t participate.)

    But I think the overall office climate, while healthy-ish for the most part, leads to these weird hugging-after-meetings moments.

    So I don’t really have a question; just curious if anyone else has experienced office culture oddities like this. Do you think it speaks to potential culture issues, or are small office quirks fine as long as they’re relatively minor and/or infrequent?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I think it can go either way. They may have a couple quirky things they do and that is the end of the story. Or they can have a couple quirky things they do and it’s the tip of the iceberg. No real way to tell instantly, it takes time to figure it out.

      When people have been together a long time there is a certain amount of bonding that goes on. For instance if a cohort has a significant loss people can grow worried or concerned and this will show.

      I stayed at one place for 11 years and by year number 8 I realized that I was watching people’s life stories play out. Jane and Bob’s baby was going to be going to high school soon. That young married couple were now an old married couple reaching middle age. Harry was on his second dog when his first beloved dog passed.

      What I am saying is people who have been together a while develop a higher awareness of time passing. They also know a bit about where the others have been in life so their current story takes on a deeper meaning than just the story itself. The longer term employees seemed to have an awareness of how we impact each other’s lives with our advice, the information we share and how we interact with each other in general.

  88. Anon for now*

    Advice on “letting go, dealing with it, smiling through it” at a job when you’re stuck there for now? Tips or tricks you use to get you through the days?

    I’ve been at my current job for the last 10 years. I really enjoy my work, I like my boss (as a person, he’s not a very good supervisor) and most of my co-workers are good. The problem comes in with the few co-workers who aren’t “good” and the lack of managing. My supervisor hates being the bad guy…so a lot of stuff just gets put off in hopes that it will resolve itself. Most recently, we’ve dealt with a employee #1 that should have been let go after her first 6 months (we’re pushing 3 years now). My supervisor admits this and has point blank said “I hope she gets a job somewhere else soon” – so obviously nothing is going to happen. In fact, she may walk into the Supervisor role when current retires because as far as I know, there’s been nothing on personnel record about the lack of capability/skill or need for improvement plans. Co-worker #2 is gone all the time. The time-off is all legit – between sick days, vacation days, and FMLA (family). He’s been here 4 years – and has had filed FMLA paperwork 3 of the 4 years to deal with different family situations. When he is at work, he’s on the phone constantly dealing with FMLA stuff, in the bathroom constantly (multiple times per hour). His small projects get done, but a big part of his job is customer facing – and all of these absences force this customer work to fall on others who do not usually have that in their job descriptions and have larger more pressing projects that they have to cover.

    I’ve been job searching for awhile, but my current situation doesn’t allow me to be very open/free with pay & benefit options. Currently (but hopefully down the road) relocation is not an option due to my own family concerns/situations. So I’m stuck for now…..I need help! I’ve started waking up in better moods when I assume that co-worker #2 won’t be there – so on the days he is, it’s a “good” surprise, that we all might get more work done. And it truly has helped my mornings start off better. But stopping myself from becoming cranky when he has to leave on short notice or when overhearing all the phone calls he’s on…I haven’t been able to master that one yet. With #1, I’ve really just started letting the chips fall where they may. Which unfortunately presents a not so great image of our business to the public with the number of times #1 has let things fall through the cracks…but I can’t be the company superhero on my pay scale!

    1. DDJ*

      You can only do what you can with what you’ve got. I totally understand that it can be aggravating when you know your business isn’t being presented in the best light due to coworkers, but that’s reality. It’s not in your power to resolve. Ultimately, you need to decide if you can deal with that. I’ve had coworkers quit when put in a similar position. They couldn’t handle it. I’m the kind of person who gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. When I don’t have all the details or information, I just have to hope that whoever DOES have the details is handling things appropriately.

      Your supervisor sucks when it comes to situation #1. Now, this person might not be placed in the Supervisor position because I’m sure current supervisor would mention to whoever is doing the hiring that this person would not be good for the position. They’ll likely ask current supervisor for input.

      You say “I can’t be the company superhero on my pay scale!” Tell yourself that. As many times as you need to. You’re doing what you can with what you’ve got, to the best of your ability. That’s as much as you can do. And it sounds like that’s a lot more than your coworkers/supervisor are giving. I think that similar things to how you’ve made your mornings a bit easier…incorporate more of those types of things. Work on tuning out the phone calls. Hum to yourself. Think of some good song lyrics. Run through the plot of The Lion King.

  89. Alex*

    For those of you who belong to professional organizations, how active or involved are you? Do you just read the newsletter or have you been an officer? Do you go to meetings or conferences? Do you feel like you get your moneys worth out of membership? I personally like having access to continuing education materials. Conferences are hit or miss.

    1. SophieChotek*

      I have found conferences to be a hit or miss, too, though I found presenting papers/boards, etc. at a conference a good way to add a line to my CV and meet people interested in similar work. (But hit or miss.)

      I have been an officer and volunteered (at the graduate level) but don’t aspire beyond that. (One of my friends, I have no doubt, will one day be President of said organization.)

      I don’t feel like I get my money’s worth though – the newsletter is pretty boring, the publication is 2-3 times a year and often is filled with things that are not interesting to me. In fact, I decided not to renew this year, and only will probably will re-new if I have to pay membership dues because I am participating in an upcoming conference. (Despite not having renewed, I still get the newsletter…probably they are hoping I will re-new my membership.)

      There was another professional organization (no conferences) but at one a time a pretty active email forum; I maybe will renew that one instead…

    2. Temperance*

      I try to be very active, but I’m a total Joiner and very Type A. I only go to conferences for my specific professional association, and typically only local-ish ones. If i can take Amtrak, I’m happy.

    3. Murphy*

      I’m in two organizations, amd my job pay for both memberships. For one of them, I went to the big conference once and found that it wasn’t the most relevant for me. I usually go to the local chapter meeting though, since there’s better networking there. If I had to pay for membership myself, I might not belong to this organization.

      For the other one, I loved the big conference, and I plan on going again (had to miss this year because I’d just had a baby). I find the listserv discussion helpful and interesting. I’m also on the committee that evaluates the conferences. Evaluation is something that I have an interest in, so when they asked for volunteers I’ve put my name in. I’ve enjoyed it. As long as I was able to afford it, I’d still have a membership and attend the conference even if I had to pay for it myself.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      I read the newsletters, go to training and events, and enjoy being part of it. I haven’t been an officer.

    5. Red Reader*

      I get my CE materials. I don’t currently go to local chapter meetings because I work 50 hours a week and I’m in grad school, but I should be finishing two masters degrees in May, god willing and the creek don’t rise, so I’d like to get more involved in the local chapter once that’s not taking up all my time. I do go to the annual conference every couple of years, but in the interest of full disclosure, that’s because it’s a tax-deductible trip to Disneyworld. Hah.

    6. Aussie academic*

      I’m very active in my national professional development organisation, helping organise our national conference this year, and in past years I’ve attended about half of the conferences. I’m also very active in our state chapter of the organisation, holding various offices over the last 10 years, and hosting professional development events. It is a lot of work but it’s helped me build networks and become known in my field. And I especially enjoy helping students and early career professionals to find their feet; it’s been what has kept me doing it when it feels like way too much extra work.

    7. periwinkle*

      My level of involvement depends on the organization. I belong to four national organizations but only one local chapter, plus I’m a corporate member of a fifth org (no individual membership, but I have access to their member materials). For that local chapter, I’m an officer.

      Having the educational materials is a key benefit. One org publishes both academic and practitioner-oriented journals, two are practitioner-only, and two are academic. I’ve attended conferences for four of the orgs and will try to get to the (huge, huge) annual conference for the fifth next year; I’ve presented and plan to submit presentations to future conferences when I can show off some research results.

      The org for which I’m involved in the local chapter has the worst conferences, honestly, but I’m expected to attend as a chapter leader. Ugh. I don’t feel like I get much value out of the national-level membership, but the chapters are great.

    8. NeverNicky*

      I’m on the regional committee for a professional organisation in my field.

      It’s been helpful as an almost-solo practitioner who works from home to get to know other people and to get some professional development.

      However, my role is moving away from this particular part of it (and I’m happy it is – one of the reasons for wanting training etc was because I felt insecure about what I was doing) so I probably won’t renew my membership.

  90. Not a Real Giraffe*

    I just started a new role on a team that is undergoing a lot of transition. We’re a small team within a larger department. Our boss (Mark) was pushed out, and our longest-tenured team member (Sarah) just accepted a new position outside the department. That leaves me and a very junior staff person who is also pretty new.

    Sarah has very strong loyalties to Mark and is understandably very resentful of TPTB who pushed him out of the department. I get it, but it makes working with TPTB (who are our interim bosses) difficult as she purposely tries to leave them out of important meetings, speaks badly of them in private conversations, and almost always gets into tense back-and-forths with them about how to move a project forward. All of this I can deal with, as I get where she’s coming from, and she only has a few weeks left with the team.

    The problem is that I can tell that our most junior staffer (Ron) is being heavily influenced by Sarah’s negativity towards our interim bosses. Ron has only been here a few months and already pushes back on sharing details about our work with TPTB, agrees to leave them out of important meetings/conversations, etc.

    Ron is pretty young and early in his career, and I worry that he’s easily impressionable. I have no current negative experiences with TPTB and as I’ve just started in this role, I know I need to work with them in order to do my job successfully. Ron will need to work with them too.

    So far I’ve been staying out of it to the best of my ability and staying silent when Sarah begins a rant about TPTB. I would love advice on how else to navigate this situation – what would the AAM hive do?

    1. CM*

      I would talk to Ron and say that you’ve noticed that he’s been excluding TPTB from important work stuff, explain how that will negatively affect him and your group, and say, “Sarah can get away with this because she is about to leave the group. But for the two of us, I think it’s important that we work with TPTB to do our jobs successfully. Since you’re fairly new, I wanted to let you know that we need to include TPTB in meetings and decisions [and whatever other concrete things you want him to do].”

  91. SophieChotek*

    I reached out to a reference, just to ensure that my contact info for her was up-to-date. (I could no longer find her on the university website where she had worked). She responded and confirmed her updated reference info but it ended with a “I think other people would be better references for the type of job you probably want.”

    I get it. She doesn’t want to be a reference anymore. It was just a little surprisingly, as our last exchange (about a year ago) was very friendly and she was even trying to help me find a job by sending me some job links (impractical but I appreciated the thought.) As far as I know, I’ve done nothing to offend her (except maybe not keep in enough contact?)

    I guess all I can do is shrug and move on but it’s a bit disheartening to find that a person whom I thought would be a solid, positive reference has withdrawn.

    Oh well. Happy Friday.

    1. BlueWolf*

      You mention she worked at a university although I can’t tell if she was a professor or administrator. It may not be anything personal, maybe she receives a lot of requests and wants to focus on the ones where she feels it will be most applicable.

  92. Kate*

    I’m hiring for a position that is traditionally pretty hard to fill. It’s part time but requires a degree and specific experience, and unfortunately that’s not something that’s in my power to change. The person previously in this position was phenomenal but resigned to take a full-time job, which is what happened with the last two people in this position too.

    I interviewed a candidate a couple of days ago who seems like she’d be great. She has the experience we need, she did a great job on the “practical” part of the interview where we asked her to do a demonstration program–overall, I think she’d be an awesome addition to the team. But, when I asked her specifically about her feelings about working part-time, she was equivocal. She said that she’d rather work full time, but could stay in her current job for enough hours to make up the difference and that would work for her.

    I swore to myself when I listed this position that I wouldn’t hire someone who I thought might leave for a full-time position sometime soon. I’m lucky, in that even though all of my other staff are also part-time, they’re all part-time because that’s what they want to work, for various personal reasons. I know that if I hire this candidate, there’s a decent chance that I’m going to be going through this again in 6-9 months.

    But honestly, I’m exhausted. This position has a lot of responsibility, and doing it plus all of my own duties is running me ragged. The rest of my staff has been great about helping to pick up the slack, but a lot of it ends up falling on me just because of the nature of the work, and I’m worried that if the work doesn’t get done it’s going to damage our relationship in the community–a relationship that I’m already working to repair due to mismanagement by a previous director. We haven’t gotten many applications, and the busiest season for this employee is in January. If I don’t get someone into this position by then I just might lose my mind.

    What would you do?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Where do you advertise? We have a few part-time roles on our team and they tend to go to working parents or part-time grad school students.

      I would hire this person so you don’t go mad in January but re-evaluate for next time.

    2. HannahS*

      Yeah, I agree with Ramona. A lot of skilled part-time positions that I know of are filled either by students (so you might get 2-3 years out of someone) or new mothers. Often, universities have job boards, so you could maybe try advertising there. I know it’s not ideal, though.

      1. HannahS*

        Oh, one other thing. When I was job searching in the years between finishing my degree and going back to school, I came across a couple of postings that said something like, “We are looking to hire someone who wishes to stay for at least 2 years” or “This position is for a career administrative assistant” and that signaled that they wouldn’t hire me (since the most I could commit to was a year). Decent people will self-select out.

        Actually, is there any chance of hiring retired people? That’s another population that might be ok with working part time instead of volunteering.

        1. Soon to be former fed*

          Thank you for mentioning retirees! When I retire next year I will be looking for part-time work. We have a lot of value to add and can be tremendous assets in situations like this.

    3. msroboto*

      I would combine a couple of these jobs and make the full time job. Sorry part-time is not going to get a long term person to stay.

  93. SideshowStarlet*

    Hi, guys. I’ve applied for a job in San Antonio that I’m super excited about, which would necessitate me relocating from 150 miles away. Everything was going good, and they offered me a job for better pay, contingent on drug screen and background check. Filled out the long background check form (did it online through Victig per instructions). Drug screen came back clean, and the director at a place I volunteer at mentioned that she was contacted yesterday about me for screening/confirmation. Today, I got an automated email from this hospital reminding me that I did not fill out my background check. I called (got voicemail) and emailed the HR lady with a screenshot of my background check confirmation. Awaiting response.

    What’s going on? Did I get lost in the system, or is this their way of pulling my offer?

    2. Tris Prior*

      I think that sometimes glitches happen with these online background check forms. I’d been at my current job for a couple months when I got an email from HR saying I’d never completed it. (When I’d done so before my start date!) I too had to send her my confirmation, and got the response, “OK, sorry, never mind.” I sure panicked there for a while, though!

  94. Former Borders Refugee*

    So I applied for job with a company I’m intersted in. I am over qualified for the job, but hey, work is work and it’s a fun industry. They emailed back and said “hey, you are staggeringly overqualified for this job, but would you like to come in and talk about other positions that you’re more suited to? Please email this specific person if you would like to do that.” I emailed back immediately, said I would be happy to, and… nothing. That was on Wednesday. Should I email again? Wait until Monday? What’s the protocol? Help me not over think this?

    1. Temperance*

      Definitely do not email them today if you responded on Wednesday. That’s just not a reasonable timeframe to expect to hear back from busy people. I definitely think that you’re overthinking.

    2. Rainy*

      Definitely don’t email today. I think you are overthinking it. I think by next Wednesday, possibly you might reach back out to the first person to make sure the contact info is right?

    3. The New Wanderer*

      I’m in your same boat, except I heard Monday that although I didn’t get the original job I interviewed for, they would like to talk to me about another position and my impression was they were going to be in touch very soon. I sent a short email Wednesday to the recruiter reiterating my interest – that was quick to follow up, I know, but the suggestion of a different position was a surprise to me, on the heels of finding out I didn’t get the original position, and I wasn’t sure how clearly my interest came across. Anyway I haven’t heard anything, so I’m leaving it up to them to contact me if/when they want.

      It is really hard not to push, especially because if this doesn’t pan out, I have another option I need to follow up on. I’m less excited about that one, but I’m definitely not going to wait weeks on a “maybe” option.

  95. HCD2017*

    I don’t have a question…just a vent.

    I’ve been working HARD on obtaining a contract for my company (like a GSA contract but for healthcare) – the process is long, unpleasant and has been close to a year long. We’d tried in the past and been rejected a few times so I approached it from a different angle.

    I got a message yesterday that we are being awarded a contract meaning potential millions of dollars on revenue over the term. I was super excited to tell my boss….who replied “great, but don’t tell anyone for a while so President doesn’t jack up our goals. Let’s just keep this really low key”.

    I mean, I didn’t expect a parade but really??? Totally demotivated and disappointed. Time to start sending resumes out.

    1. Let's Sidebar*

      While that is not a response that would motivate anybody, is it possible this poorly delivered message is in the best interest of your department (yourself included)? If your department gets incentives ($) for reaching goals and you can keep your goals lower for next year by not touting this for these final few weeks of the year, that ultimately would be a benefit, right?

      1. zora*

        I think HCD is saying that they would have liked the boss to be a little more excited about it, even if it does make sense to keep it low key for now to other people. And I totally know how you feel, HCD! I would feel the same way. That is pretty lame.

        Our team has won some big work, and even though it couldn’t go public yet, my boss made sure to have the whole team in the room and offer a very warm thank you and congratulations to the folks that made it happen for all of their work. A reminder to keep it quiet doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive from also expressing appreciation and congratulations! I wouldn’t want to work for your boss either, I’m sorry this happened to you. :o(

  96. Cheesesticks and Pretzels*

    Has anyone ever had any luck getting a job with recruiters that reach out to you through email?
    I had one this week who found my resume on one of the job boards. Presented a job that seemed like a good fit, we spoke on Tuesday and set up a phone interview for Wednesday.

    Wednesday comes, no one calls at appointed time. Recruiter calls back yesterday, apologizes saying time could not be confirmed with client. Calls me back a few hours later, says has phone interview time confirmed for this morning, sends calendar invite. Interview time has come and gone and nothing…..

    1. CM*

      Haven’t actually gotten a job this way, but have had consistent followups with recruiters that reached out through email. These were recruiters who clearly had looked at my LinkedIn profile and understood what I do, and reached out with a job that seemed like a good match. I ignore the ones that are clearly just spamming everybody and send me irrelevant stuff. I think you just happened to get somebody who’s flaky.

  97. 24 days*

    I’ve been super unhappy with my job lately, to the point where I think it’s triggering actual medical depression. I work in IT and I think I’d be happier doing something where my job revolves around interacting with people for most of the day, instead of tedious analytical work. I’d actually really like being an elementary school teacher, but they don’t get paid well, it’s a crowded market and there’s a big expectation of unpaid overtime and teaching to tests.

    So my question is, what is a primarily customer-interaction kind of job that pays well (>60k)? I’m also in Canada in case that makes a difference.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Are you okay doing IT work at a school instead of being a teacher at a school? Most elementary schools need IT support and/or a director. If it’s a small school, you probably do everything (Director of IT, tier-1 support, even teaching a class or two of coding/makery). You get a lot of customer interaction! And a Dir. of IT at a school doesn’t get paid as much as a CTO in corporate but almost always way more than your average elementary school teacher (sadly).

      1. 24 days*

        I think I’m probably fundamentally not cut out for IT work. I suspect it’s more a skill that I like the idea of having rather than a skill I actually want to develop. And I’m more of a business analyst with no skills in server/database admin, so I wouldn’t really get to work in a school. I’d be stuck in a school board office somewhere.

    2. Traveling Teacher*

      Please don’t become a teacher because you’re depressed with your IT job. Believe me, the soullessness of endless admin paperwork, mostly done after-hours: that’s one of the reasons I’ve (mostly) left teaching! It’s become much, much more admin/paperwork focused, and you are absolutely right about the terrible pay and long hours. The children are wonderful, but it can be really, incredibly stressful with the amount of unpaid, extra work you are expected to do. Teaching has changed so much in the last couple of decades that it’s nearly unrecognizable…at least, that’s what all of my cooperating teachers have told me over the years.

      If you really think you are interested in this, inquire about becoming a volunteer at a local elementary school and shadow a few different teachers. But please, there are so many more options open to you than teaching.

      I second the IT role at elementary schools/a school district. But also shadow someone who’s actually working in that position to see if it’s really right for you.

      1. 24 days*

        I totally agree! I like the process of teaching. The other stuff like dealing with obtuse administrators, entitled parents and lots of paperwork and stupid government regs gives me pause. I threw that out as an example of what I’d like to do – something customer/client-facing, where most of my day is spent interacting with other people rather than interacting with my computer.

        1. Traveling Teacher*

          Ok, glad to hear it! It’s a question I get asked quite frequently, both because I’ve done it and because I’ve mostly left teaching, so I tend to use my nuclear response and ask questions later, :)

    3. Cedrus Libani*

      Would you be interested in help desk work? Alternately, I’ve seen programs that teach basic computer literacy to seniors, though I’m not sure how well that sort of thing pays.

      1. 24 days*

        I don’t think help desk work pays that well. It’s kind of an entry level role everywhere I’ve found. I’m not committed to the specific role of teaching and I think I’m overall not suited to be in IT. It’s crazy and terrifying that at 19 years old I was able to make a decision that practically chained me to a job I’m not cut out for.

        1. Colette*

          What about tier 2 or 3 support? Executive customer service (I.e. the people who answer if you write to the CEO of the company)? Technical skills are helpful but you spend your days helping people.

    4. HCD2017*

      I wonder if IT sales might be a fit? You’d be interacting with people but still able to use your current skills. Good sales reps are hard to find and easily make 6-figures.

      1. 24 days*

        I’ve heard sales mentioned a lot as a job for extraverts, and I think I’d be interested. I just don’t know how I’d break into it. Also, I’ve heard it can be aggressive/male dominated and as a minority female I’m not sure I want to jump into that fray.

    5. KS*

      Have you considered IT customer training or corporate training of some other kind? (I mean pursuing being a trainer/instructor, not getting more training.) I’m thinking like the representatives who do large-scale company-wide training when a new software platform is purchased. A lot of that is done online now too, so you may not even have to travel.

      1. 24 days*

        That does sound interesting. What kinds of position titles would I google? I tried searching “corporate trainer” and got a lot of HR stuff which, while still moderately interesting, isn’t really what I want to do.

        1. KS*

          I don’t know for sure, but maybe something like “software sales/training representative” or “customer training representative”? Wish I could help more but I’ve only ever been on the very receiving end of that kind of job.

        2. Ellen Ripley*

          This often overlaps with sales functions as well – look for ‘technical sales reps’ or ‘sales support’, which means that you’re the one helping the client make everything work after they’ve bought your product.

  98. Trillian*

    I have a question about email etiquette. My boss frequently forwards me emails saying one line “can you take care of this”, “here you go”, etc because I’m still in training and not started receiving emails directly from customers yet. The workflow is currently that I reply directly to the customer. I usually foreward the email so that the context remains, but I’m wondering if I should delete the text of his email (leaving the header information to show he sent it to me) or if I just leave his one line requests there. It’s a silly question but I’m hesitant to ask him specifically about it. I don’t want to come across as needing instruction on something so simple. So I’m asking here instead. =D

    1. Murphy*

      I tend to remove that stuff, depending on who it’s for and what it says. For a customer, I probably would.

    2. Havarti*

      “Hi boss, how do you want this handled since you’re forwarding these to me? I’d like to do X. Is that ok?” I’ve learned to ask my boss on even the really simple stuff because sometimes they know more on why something needs to be done a certain way – even if it defies logic. That said, I do remove both text and header from the body text so the client doesn’t know how it got to me (and change back the subject line if boss changed it to “take care of this Mon. am”). Forwarding internal notes, even benign ones like your boss’s are kind of a no-no here. No need to show them how the sausage gets made. Clients have sent me email threads where someone has said something not-so-nice about me or my organization and I got mad enough once to politely call them out on it. It never happened again with that client.

  99. Snippy OP*

    I was the letter writer on this question.
    https://www.askamanager.org/2017/10/my-employee-is-snippy-with-people-and-is-dramatic-about-stress.html
    I have been waiting for an opportunity to arise to bring up the subject in coaching with Lucinda but all has been smooth the past few weeks…until yesterday. TWO of Lucinda’s coworker’s complained separately of a pattern of issues with her and asked if we could have a discussion addressing the issues and to “clear the air”. Good idea or bad idea? Should I just stick with the plan and talk to Lucinda one on one again? I don’t want her to feel ganged up on but I think there is something to be said for what a peer can say that I as a manager cannot about how Lucinda can make people feel. Thoughts? Advise for monitoring this productively if we do have a group chat?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Do not do the group chat! You shouldn’t be a mediator here; you should be directly telling Lucinda how she needs to change her behavior. Don’t put this on your employees to handle; you’ve got to do it yourself.

  100. An Untidy Cube*

    Random Office Etiquette Question! Some background: I work in a semi-open office floor plan where everyone works in largish cubes in rows in one large room. I work in a cube that is out of the way in the corner of the room. You only come over here unless you want to speak with me or my manager. My manager sits in the cube right next to me. My manager keeps a super clean cube, everything is organized, and she keeps most of the flat work surfaces in her cube completely clean. I do not, I keep the things I go for on the desk in my cube. This is where my questions starts.

    Several months ago, she came up to me and told me my cube was in a public space and needed to be kept clean. I was floored, I looked around my office and saw countless cubicles that had the same level of clutter as my cube and many that were dramatically worse. I was busy with work and just ignored it thinking she was in a bad mood. Several weeks later, I received an email saying that my cube needed to be cleaned by the end of the day. I had only been at the company six months and didn’t want to make waves, so I cleaned everything off the surfaces of my desk and put in drawers.

    Yesterday, she again came up and said that my cube was messy and needed to be tidied. I didn’t say anything but made a strained smile. I am over this. I am adult and how I keep my cube is my business, not hers. I now know that my company would also think this is a crazy request. I don’t want to elevate this by going to HR or a local VP to complain that my manager is being super controlling over my personal space. I have tried to plan out what I am going to say to my manager in my head, but everything comes out very angry. Any ideas on the phrasing I can use to ask her to back off and that I won’t be “tidying” my cube on command?

    1. Murphy*

      Does your manager have control over the other employees with “untidy” cubes? If not, she may feel that she has no standing to tell other people how to manage their space, but that she can talk to you about yours?

      You have to think about how important this is to you. How messy is it? How easy would it be to keep it the way she wants it? (Though I agree that this is dumb. Unless it’s ridiculously messy, or dirty, I think she should leave you alone.)

      1. An Untidy Cube*

        She only has control over me and one other person. So zero control over 98% off the office.

        I am aware that this is not the hill to die on. Our relationship and this job has many other problems and this week was particularly bad. I think this just feels like the last straw. I have to deal with 100 other annoyances and issues from this person, I can’t deal with one more.

    2. NaoNao*

      Do clients or customers come through the open plan office or are VIPs or other Big Bosses frequently on-site?
      This could explain her desire for a cleaner cube area.
      The thing is, your desk at work belongs to the company. It’s personal only in the sense that you occupy it. I get it, it’s super frustrating and feels like you’re being unfairly policed and picked on when others aren’t. It’s also really minor in the grand scheme of things.
      But offices with open floor plans are often designed to be “showpieces” for photography in company literature and websites, stops on corporate tours for clients and poo-bahs, etc.
      How about this? Keep everything spotless but personalize it in other ways:
      Computer background that you love
      One or two small items that are personal (toys, photos, art)
      A small plant or fake flower
      High end ergonomic mouse, mouse pad, keyboard, etc (yeah, you’ll have to buy this I think)
      Bring in a very lightly scented atmosphere spray and discreetly spritz one pump at the beginning of the day (if your office is scent-okay)
      Keep an office set of super cute/cool supplies like those made by Kate Spade or Papyrus—they look very high end but have personality

      Speaking as someone who is going to clean their cube right now because it’s cluttered… :)

    3. Havarti*

      So when you say it’s cluttered, do you mean it’s covered in papers and folders and not like 50 framed photos of your cat? If it’s papers, maybe have a system of putting everything away into drawers or neatly into an organizer at the end of the day. That way it looks neat when you’re not around. I do this for most of my papers (they’re mostly confidential and need to be under lock anyway).

      If she still comes after you after that, then pull a puzzled “I’m not sure what you would like me to do. I’m working on projects X and Y right now so I have the materials I need out for them right now.” Unfortunately, those above us can call the shots on how our desks look. So aim for cleaning up at the end of the day and see how it goes.

      Honestly, I don’t trust someone with a spotless desk. Either they have too much time on their hands or they’re unpleasant people. I know some folks are great at organizing and are wonderful people! But I keep remembering my ex’s mom. *shudders* Pristine house. Terrible attitude.

      1. DDJ*

        I talked to my boss about this early in my career! She keeps a meticulous desk, and I felt like I should make it a goal to do the same. So I incorporated it into our goal-setting meeting. And she asked me if I had any issues with my work area. “Do you have trouble finding things? Do you feel like you’d work better in a tidy environment?” And the answer to both questions was “No.” And she said “Don’t worry about it, then. It’s your space. If you prefer to work that way, then have at it.” And thank goodness! My desk looks like a horrible mess all the time, but if you ask me to find one specific piece of paper, I know exactly where it is and exactly what the status is on it. It’s unfortunate that not everyone understands that different people sometimes like a different style of work environment.

      2. Soon to be former fed*

        Havarti, I don’t trust folks with hoarder cubicles! That old saw about knowing where everything is despite the mess has never turned out to be true. I have seen confidential performance reviews and hr paperwork left out for anyobe to see. Not to mention old food, cans, etc. Just nastiness.

        I am an innately neat person, and highly organized. People know if the ask me I can quickly put my hands on an old report or other document. I am very trusted!

        So, please don’t form negative opinions about an entire group of people because they are neat.

        That said, OP’s boss should dial her controlling down a notch, although I suspect there is more to the story. If work files are easily located and there are no confidentiality breaches or vermin, folks should be able to keep private, non-public facing workstations any way they want. She is an adult, not your child that you can tell to go clean their room.

    4. Anion*

      Maybe ask what her specific concerns are? Like, maybe it’s loose papers that bug her but she doesn’t mind file folders. Or maybe she has a thing about coffee mugs or tchotchkes.

      Perhaps say something like, “I wanted to ask you about my cube. I understand you think it looks untidy, but I’ve found I work best when I have A, B, and C always to hand. Are those the things you think look untidy, or do you dislike my [pictures/mugs/souvenir fan/pen cup/whatever]? I certainly want to follow your instructions, but it’s difficult for me to work efficiently if I’m not comfortable in my workspace, and I’m genuinely a little confused about what you’d like me to do.”

      And see what she says. Maybe you can have an actual conversation (as opposed to her just ordering you to “tidy up” like a parent). Maybe you can find some way to work in the fact that other cubes are just as messy if not messier–like, “I’ve always had the impression that how we organize and keep our cubes was a matter of personal preference, but of course if I’m incorrect there, perhaps we could organize some sort of memo or demonstration outlining exactly what the policy is? I know [person with messy cube A] and [person with messy cube B] will probably have the same questions, so it might save some time.” Or something. The problem with bringing them up is it can so easily sound whiny–you know, “Billy’s mom lets him walk to the store by himself!” But it’s a legitimate question, too, especially if it helps clarify whether this is an actual company issue or just a neat-freak manager trying to push her own preferences on you.

      I dunno. I agree that this isn’t a hill to die on, and you don’t want to raise a big fuss…but at the same time, I’d at least want to know why she’s being so weird about this (and hopefully get some clarification about what exactly her problem is).

    5. Not So NewReader*

      When I started my job my boss commented about how my desk was always neat when I left for the day. Since I was new to the job/boss I was a bit concerned about how things appeared so I did tidy up five minutes before I left.

      My boss did not tidy things. She ended up trying to keep a neater desk because mine was relatively neat. One of my big talking points was that it was easier to start in the morning if everything had been organized the night before.
      Perhaps this is a compromise you and your boss can live with, you pick up when you go home.
      Another thing I watch is the number of things I am working on at one time. I don’t have a ton of space if I have too much in process it gets too hard to work. Maybe that is something else you can consider. I did set up slots in a paper sorter for “waiting for call back”, “research”, “file” and other recurring tasks that did not need to be done immediately. This also helps my desk to look less cluttered/busy.

  101. Frustrated replacemeny*

    The person i was hired to replace refuses to show me anything she i doing. In 3 weeks i’ve gotten 1 30min flyby of the entire company…
    When i ask her a question she answers and then sulks for the rest of the day, getting upsey that i didn’t know the answer (i did know that it was done wrong, but wants to validate if there was a reason it was done that way instead of me saying there is a mistake here…)

    She is supposed to leave at xmas but is already saying she’ll keep handling this or that for a couple of months… i’ve been told to be not confirm or deny anything because anything that contradicts what she wants to do sends her into the sulks and nothing gets done for the rest of the day

    I know i pretty much have to put up with it until she leaves, but i know i’ll have to deal with her suggestions and comments even after she is gone…

    Very frustrating

  102. Dachelle*

    I don’t know if anyone remembers me posting in an open thread from this summer. I was forced to resign from a job I’d had for over 12 years without warning (literally it happened during my scheduled performance review, and I’d only had good reviews prior to this), and then within a week my mom went to the hospital where she coded on the table. She was resuscitated, but ended up in ICU for over a week and the hospital for over two months, plus another month of skilled nursing.

    I’m happy to say that I did get a new job. One of my friends happened to be asked by her supervisor if she knew of anyone looking for a position, and she recommended me. I’m now making a lot more, and working not only with that friend but with another friend who’s also at the company. It’s in a completely different field, and coming to private industry after working in academia for so long is a little weird, but the people are very supportive and overall it’s been a great move. I never would have made it without being forced out of my old job in the first place, so I guess that I should be thankful in a way!

    My mom is also doing O.K. She still has late-stage cancer, but it seems to be under control at the moment. I’m also glad I got to spend more time with her this summer. I know I would not have been able to do that if I was still working at old job.

    Anyway, I just wanted to update and say thanks for the supportive comments on my original post!

    1. Traveling Teacher*

      I’m so glad to hear that you got to take that time with your mom–that is so precious. I hope that things keep looking up at your new job, too. And thank you for the update!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Your attitude toward all this is outstanding.
      Congrats on the good move to a better job.
      Sending vibes of warm wishes and holiday peace to you and your mom.

  103. twig*

    I’m not sure if this is more of vent or request for advice or what.

    Here’s the situation:
    I am an admin assistant at a state university.
    My major duties involve:

    Admin support for the VP of IT/ CIO (double title, one dude)
    Managing the VP of IT office suite (includes keeping up supplies, tracking schedules, managing student workers and finding work for them)
    Oversee software purchasing for IT/Libraries
    Software recharge (short description: we purchase software in “bulk” then resell to departments on campus — this involves processing payments, settting up installation tickets, following up where needed)
    Oversee Inventory tracking for IT/Libraries

    So, basically about 3 roles (admin support, software support, inventory). I’ve been making weird little “detail” related mistakes every week or two: Putting a reception on the wrong date on the calendar (causing my VP to miss it), arranging a meeting with someone and failing to add them to the outlook invitation, setting up a room and forgetting to reserve a room for it or, in one case, reserving the room for the right date but the wrong month.

    I get interrupted fairly often and have to switch between, say, scheduling and purchasing or I’ll need to drop everything to do something for my VP etc. I think this majorly contributes to the mistakes that I make. I have to drop something and then I don’t come back to it for a day or more or I forget a detail that I needed to remember. I try to make notes when I’m interrupted so that I’ll come back to it knowing what still needs to be done, but sometimes I just have to drop everything and move on to something else. .

    I’ve been taken to task for not having enough “attention to detail.” the thing is, I have a LOT of details to track, and I’m just not able to track ALL of them. I put checklists in place, I try to double and triple check things. But stuff keeps falling through the cracks.

    This week I hit a wall. I sent my VP to a reception off campus on Wednesday afternoon. He called me 15 minutes later asking about who was running it, because there was no one there. I double checked my email and the reception had already happened on Tuesday. Pardon my language , but: fuck.

    It was a “little” thing, a social engagement, that he actually wouldn’t have been able to attend on Tuesday because he had other meetings. But STILL. I immediately went to my supervisor (who is not the VP) to tell her what happened. she was not happy — supportive, but not happy. “this keeps happening. I don’t know what more I can do to help you,” etc.

    I went home, thought it over, had a conversation with my husband and decided that it’s time to find something else. this sucks because I love where I work. I love the people that I work with in my department. the pay is decent, but I just can’ t get the damn job done in a complete manner. I can do everything poorly or one I can do some things well, and let others fall through the cracks.

    I cant stay on top of everything. Some days I just give up and waste my time on AAM or other websites. I’m feeling shittier and shittier about myself and my capabilities.

    So I came to work yesterday and talked with both my supervisor and my VP. I told them that I don’t think I”m the right person for the job, that I’m going to start looking around campus for something else. They were both very supportive about it offering help — the VP actually said: “You have too much on your plate. I’ve been hoping to change that.” Now, I realize that I am VERY lucky to be in a position where I can actually speak to my bosses about this stuff without fear of them deciding that they’re just going to get rid of me since I’m thinking of leaving.

    I’ve been here for 8 years — the longest I’ve ever held a job (my job has evolved over the years — the admin support & student worker supervision role was just added 2 years ago when the VP started).

    So I guess I want to know if anyone has any thoughts on my situation. I’m I just lazy? Is it really too much? I feel like my supervisors are reasonable, but my workload is not (also — no overtime, I’m non-exempt) (though I occaisionally work late or come in on the weekend to try to clear my desk and get something done without interruptions)

    1. fposte*

      Take “lazy” off the table; I’m not even sure that’s really a thing any more.

      Academia is notorious for trying to do more with less, and I bet your job got created as a Frankenjob melding together various things that needed to be done at that point. Those are tough! There are people that can still do them, but it’s a hard remit. Obviously there’s no way to know from here just how much of a challenge this one is, but I think it’s reasonable to trust your bosses, who consider this to be a problem of the position and would rather solve that than lose you.

      1. twig*

        thank you for this!

        Yes it started as a franken job (Inventory, software, Mainframe security) then evolved to a new frankenjob.

        1. fposte*

          Actually, I read your post overoptimistically–it sounds like they *mean* to solve things but it’s not clear yet if they will or not. I think you’ve certainly been there long enough to look elsewhere; I also think that unpacking a Frankenjob can get really complicated in academia, so meaning to fix things might not be enough to change things in the near future.

          1. twig*

            There has been talk of changing things for a while.

            Our department has a “blank” administrative assistant position (from someone who retired last summer) that can be crafted to take some of this stuff on, but I don’t know how much or when it will happen.

    2. Sadie Catie*

      Sometimes mistakes happen, but this sounds like it may be more of an issue with whatever processes you are using. It’s really difficult to complete detailed time consuming tasks when you are expected to drop everything and finish something else RIGHT NOW. Is there a way to streamline whatever steps you have to take with your responsibilities? I have been in a similar situation before and it was rough. Each time something fell through the cracks it was because whatever process was in place was 10x more time consuming and complicated than it should have been but there was no reason why it had to be done that way, or whoever I supported simply didn’t understand the time and effort involved.

    3. Camellia*

      the VP actually said: “You have too much on your plate. I’ve been hoping to change that.”

      But the VP hasn’t changed that, right? If you can’t talk to this person and get a plan for changing it, and a time frame for changing it, I think you can assume that it won’t be changing. Then you need to do whatever is necessary to take care of yourself.

    4. EA*

      So, Just for background, I was an EA for a while, then I realized the field is a bad fit for me, and transitioned (which was not easy, but that is another story)
      I would think long and hard if you are just not a fit for support work. I find when I was an EA everyone was much less tolerant of mistakes than they are now. I think support work is looked down upon, and people are less tolerant of mistakes in fields where the job is supposed to be ‘easy’. I don’t think anything about being an EA is easy, but it was always like “oh you forgot to schedule, its so easy what is wrong with you”; when really I had a million balls in the air. I also found I made mistakes because the work honestly bored me to death. I had to try to pay attention when the tasks were repetitive.

      I had to work hard to be good as an EA. I got good at my job at the end (I didn’t let things fall through the cracks); but my boss still criticized my personality. I think shit always flows downhill, and I have observed people being hard on the admins.

      Another thing- You could excel in another job. Try and think about what you like and don’t like, your personality, and make moves into something that works for you. It could be workload, but be open to the idea that it could be another problem.

      1. twig*

        Thanks for this. I think that it really is a bad fit for me. I suspect that EA work just really isn’t for me. (or maybe EA work in addition to other duties isn’t for me)

        I’ve been stumbling along here for so long, that my confidence is kind of shot. I’ve got to work on that.

  104. Becky*

    Ugh, so yesterday morning my work computer started freezing and randomly shutting down. I called IT and they came to look at it, decided there definitely was a problem, and then took it away. I was then left without a computer for about half the day (I was mostly in meetings, but still it hit my productivity). They gave me a temporary machine while they’re trying to see if my computer is fixable or if I need a new one, but I don’t want to go through all the trouble of installing all my programs on the temporary machine but it means there are some things I have to delay doing until I have a permanent machine with all my programs installed. Its inconvenient and annoying.
    I talked to IT today and they said they are still trying to see if my computer is salvageable or if I will need a comparable new machine. They should know by end of the day so come Monday I should have either a new machine or my old one but either way…SO ANNOYING.

  105. ThatLibTech*

    For those of you who work public facing roles where you have regulars AND your conversations can involve discussing your daily life (so it’s not always business conversation), how do you handle requests to your *personal* social media? In my case there was no invitation to add me, so it’s kind of out of the blue. I opted to just ignore the request, but a friend of mine suggested that I immediately block the person, especially as there were other particulars of the situation that didn’t involve me but another co-worker (not negative on the co-worker’s part!).

    I have no intention at this moment to add the person anyways, or any person I interact with as an employee. Too weird, plus way too much potential for drama.

    1. Goya*

      It’s not really a thing for me to worry too much about. I do get requests about these on LinkedIn occasionally – but I would just ignore the request if it were on Facebook or something. LinkedIn isn’t personal enough for me to worry about the information they might see (and the networking aspect can only help), but Facebook is a whole different game and opens too many cans of worms.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      “Sorry, I am not allowed to connect with people I work with.”
      OR
      “Sorry I only use social media in a very limited manner. But you can stop by and talk to me!”
      OR
      If online, just ignore it. Do nothing.

  106. Rat Racer*

    Guys – I did something SO stupid last week: I sent a thank-you note after a 3rd round interview that had typos in it (CRINGE!!!). My spouse was calling me to come help with dinner, and rather than holding and sending after dinner, I hastily hit send.

    Granted, the job doesn’t actually seem like what they’d advertised, and I’m not sure I’d go for it, but I hate it (hate it!!) when I get in my own way like this and screw up my prospects with careless mistakes. Ugh! It’s the worst!

  107. OperaArt*

    I’m now up to 6 holiday open house invitations at work, all in the next 2 week period. This is the result of multiple chains of command hosting parties at multiple organizational levels. I plan to attend 5. I am not going to worry about my diet. :-)

    My workplace does these well—all are on site, all are during working hours, no alcohol is served, and no one is tracking attendance. We have over 6000 employees at our site.

    1. Goya*

      :)

      Reminds me of an article about Max the “library cat” who keeps trying to get into the library, but the owners and the library do not want Max to get in. They had to post signs on the door for patrons to make sure he doesn’t try to follow them in.

      2. Ramona Flowers*

        When I was at university, a cat once wandered into one off my lectures and stood in front of the lecturer, yawning.

        1. LadyKelvin*

          I was at my former university which has a feral cat population for a work meeting a few months ago. One of the cats followed someone into the back of the auditorium and then worked its way to the front by passing through the seats. I noticed it when a cat appeared between my legs (I was in the 3rd row). It proceeded to the front of the room and sat next to the speaker while everyone giggled and made jokes about cats eating fish. (We do fish things).

  109. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    Wearing the engagement ring at work–how did you tell coworkers/the boss you were engaged? Did it take ages for anyone to notice?

    I told my boss (re: time off) in advance, plus a coworker or 2 (one asked how my weekend had been, and 2nd coworker–his dad is a wedding teapot florist). All male. A couple female coworkers noticed it super immediately though without me saying anything lol.

    2. Rainy*

      Everyone who hadn’t noticed my ring heard my super enthusiastic coworker shriek “OH MY GOD YOU GOT ENGAGED?!” when she noticed. So that’s pretty much how the office found out. :)

    3. Anion*

      I told my particular work friend, but for everyone else it just sort of casually came up (genuinely–like, we were talking about plans for the next year and I said “I just got engaged, so that’s what I’ll be working on.”) not long after the proposal.

      I still feel really weird, though, about the day I went to ask one of the other managers something and rested my hands on the top edge of her cube wall. It was what I normally did, but on this occasion she noticed my ring right away and started making a fuss, and I’ve always really hoped that neither she nor anyone else thought I deliberately set my hand there so she would see and comment on my ring.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Some people never noticed. And I was happy about that actually.
      I really did not care who noticed.

  110. DumbQuestion*

    I had an interview last week and I need to make sure I’m not crazy. First interviewer, Marcia-who would be my manager, was great. I was thrilled with her style and it was smooth. Probably the best interview I’ve ever had. Second interviewer, Jan, comes in and is pleasant while Marcia was in the room. As soon as Marcia closed the door Jan’s attitude and demeanor changed. The first words out of her mouth were, “I’ve never heard of this company. How do you get business?”

    Erm…what? 6M people live here. I hadn’t heard of *their* business until I saw the job posting. Second, I’m not in marketing. It’s not my business how we get business.

    Okay, whatever.

    Then it got a bit weirder. I went to grad school and she was asking about the program when she questioned, “You worked while you were in school? How did manage that? How could you go to school and work at the same time? When did you find the time for it?”

    I was a little flustered because her tone was accusatory, so I said I went to school and night and made it work. Which is the truth. She ended the interview with asking my current salary and inquiring about our benefits package.
    I was excited about the position before meeting her; however, I wasn’t surprised when they didn’t call me this week for a second interview.

    Those questions were odd. Jan could have been having a bad day or it’s possible she felt I wouldn’t be a good fit from the start and the interview was a waste of her time. Maybe it was some good cop/bad cop role play or maybe she really is a jerk and I dodged a bullet, but it cooled my interest significantly.

    1. NaoNao*

      So Jane was asking how your current/former job “gets business?” Weird. And frustrating. But honestly, I’ve had the same private thought more than once when Random Company Who Clearly Thinks They’re a Major Player.

      I had an interview a lot like that once: “What is a “sister firm?” (I worked for a law firm that did reciprocal business and shared resources with another one, and I’d heard it referred to that way and listed it as such on my resume) in a tone that dripped with disgust and anger. It seemed to come out of nowhere.
      The rest of the interview wasn’t much better.

      I think a question about work and school balance is fair, because full time work and full time school is *a lot*. But in this case it seems like the interviewer just didn’t get a good vibe and had some incorrect viewpoints that she got from who knows where.

    2. CM*

      That’s so weird — in both of these cases (NaoNao’s comment too) it seems like it’s more about the contemptuous tone than the actual question, which could be fine if asked in a curious and friendly way.

  111. Crossfired*

    I’m in a department with two full-timers and four part-timers – I’m a part-timer and share an office with ‘Doreen,’ also a part-timer. She’s extremely good at the practical parts of her job, but she’s been butting heads with ‘Kim,’ a full-timer who’s nominally the department head but has no actual managerial role. Communication has been a huge past problem. Kim goes to the meetings with the next level up, but information does not flow downhill to us. Our mutual manager assumes that Kim’s passed it all on, and I have no idea what Kim thinks.

    Doreen’s been very vocal this fall about her unhappiness, especially regarding the way hours and pay have been handled (we’re exempt, if that matters, on task-oriented contracts). The most recent blow-up happened yesterday when Doreen found out that Kim and our mutual manager have been planning a big public-facing presentation in the spring… of Doreen’s work. And Doreen only found out when a third party mentioned a meeting that Doreen hadn’t been invited to. Being charitable, the planning process involves a decent amount of unpaid work, including meetings outside regular part-time hours, which Doreen has pushed back against in the past. But it still seems incredibly passive-aggressive not to even give her a heads-up. Am I off-base there?

    Doreen lost her temper, she’s threatening to quit, and I have no doubt that emails are flying thick and furious in the background. Doreen’s skill-set is extremely specialized, her work is time-sensitive and important to the department’s function, and if she leaves halfway through her contract there will be a massive problem trying to find a replacement. I’ve been making the appropriate soothing mouth-noises so far, trying to convince her not to burn her bridges, but have otherwise been keeping my head down.

    I think I just need confirmation that I’m not crazy to want to stay out of the fray for now. I like Doreen and have my own problems with the way Kim handles things, but at the same time, I really don’t want to get in the middle of a war.

    tl;dr: Am I a jerk for not stepping up and going to bat for Doreen when her frustrations are real and justified, but her approach to the situation is probably going to end badly whichever way the dust settles?

    1. CatCat*

      No, you’re just a peer right? It’s totally reasonable to stay out of the fray here. I can’t see how you getting involved in this drama does anyone any good. Doreen’s unhappy. The company knows Doreen is unhappy. Let the company and Doreen figure it out.

      1. Crossfired*

        I’m just a peer, yes. I technically have seniority because I’ve been around longer than the others, but all the part-timers are at the same organizational level.

    2. Construction Safety*

      “I’m a part-timer and share an office with ‘Doreen,’ also a part-timer.”
      “we’re exempt, if that matters, on task-oriented contracts”
      ” the planning process involves a decent amount of unpaid work, including meetings outside regular part-time hours”
      There’s something seriously messed up with the sum of those statements.

      1. fposte*

        Not necessarily. If you’re exempt, it’s not actually unpaid work, even if you’re part time. Now, it may be that it’s miscategorized as exempt, or it may be that despite the part-time moniker Crossfired is being asked to work the same hours as full-time employees despite not getting their salary; those things would be messed up. But part-time exempt is a weird beast, because it’s usually not going to be x hours per week despite being part-time.

        1. Crossfired*

          We’re part time in that we have what’s supposed to be 50% or less of the standard workload for the industry, and are paid a lump sum per short-term contract. How many hours it takes us to do something and what extras we take on (if any) are officially up to us, as long as certain base metrics are met.

          Theoretically one could argue that, since the event is based around Doreen’s work, it should be included in her contract / be her problem to organize. It is not officially part of her job, however, and any work she chose to put toward it would not change her total compensation.

          1. fposte*

            Oh, if there’s a contract that’s a whole nother kettle of fish.

            But on the general question, I’m with you; Doreen’s management handled this badly but there’s no reason for you to dive into the kerfuffle.

      2. Crossfired*

        I was trying to add detail and keep it succinct which not being identifiable, and I think I sacrificed clarity in the process – my apologies!

        I meant to say that, given that planning for this extra event is absolutely not part of the part-time contracts, and Doreen has previously expressed discontent with the idea of being asked to do extra unpaid work, I can see why Kim might have decided not to loop Doreen in on planning for the event.

        (Did I use the term ‘exempt’ wrong? It’s not one that I actually hear used. I mean that we’re not salaried. The part-timers have contracts that pay XXX dollars for the completion of YYY job, within a specific time frame. Kim is salaried.)

  112. Young and Managing*

    I resigned from my job earlier this week for a really awesome opportunity. I tried to be kind to my boss and provide about 3 1/2 weeks prior to leaving to give plenty of time to transition all my projects. However, my boss is completely ignoring me now which frankly makes me want to leave even sooner. I get it’s not easy to accept someone leaving, but I did everything you should do when resigning. I’m really annoyed by her treatment. Any advise for the next few weeks?

    1. CM*

      Congratulations! I’d just keep repeating to myself, “Just a few more weeks and I’m out of here.” At this point, assuming you’re just annoyed and not being abused, your best bet is to be as professional and mature as possible as you close out your notice period.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      I’m sure you’ve read stuff like this before on this site, but since your supervisor clearly has zero interest (at least at this point) in participating or directing a smooth transition of your duties to others in your unit, all you can do is what’s within your power to control: create full descriptions of each of your regular duties, provide the specific locations for where these files are in your unit’s shared workspace; if applicable, create a to-do list with all of your hourly, daily, weekly, or monthly tasks, and to whom–or to what other departments in your company–you typically send your reports/data; and write up a list of all your in-house contacts (names, titles, phone numbers, email addresses, etc.) of other employees with whom you worked as part of accomplishing your job. If you have already done these things, then I’m not sure what more you can do.

      Given your current chilly relations, I probably wouldn’t put any effort into training other people on the various parts of your job, unless your boss specifically asks you to do that. You don’t know what your boss has planned; she may already have certain people in mind regarding who-should-be-doing-what after you’re gone. Good luck.

  113. KS*

    I’m ramping up my job search to get out of a position I’ve only been in for a year… when I was hired, I was fully expecting to be here 3-5 years at least, but six months in they laid off a third of the department and then proceeded to lose another third to better offers without replacing them. We are down to seven people from a staff of 20+, and are now outsourcing half our work, which the higher-ups seem to be fine with. (Rumor has it that the president prefers outsourcing work so he can get kickbacks from the contractors… I don’t know if that’s true, but it’s consistent with his demonstrated preference for paying outside agencies 5-10x as much money for things we could do in-house with minimal infrastructure investment.) The organization itself was also stable and growing for decades before I started but now seems to be on the brink of financial collapse due to mismanagement by new leadership.
    I dearly love the work I do and the people I work with (and wish them nothing but the best as they leave one by one, since they all deserve much better than the current situation), particularly because I took this job after a previous 1-year position in an incredibly toxic workplace I hated everything about, but I can’t stay. I’m pretty bitter about the situation because deep down feel like I was robbed of a good 3-5 year position I would have been extremely happy in.
    How do I professionally convey this when interviewers inevitably ask why I’m leaving my job after only a year (and with another 1-year job prior to that… though only other job on my resume was 5 years, so hopefully it’s clear that I’m capable of staying somewhere for longer)?

    1. Cedrus Libani*

      I think the turnover is a good, objective reason. “The company changed hands, and the new owners are moving to outsource all teapot polishing. In the past few months, my department has gone from 20+ people down to seven. The position was a great fit, but unfortunately I don’t see a future for myself there, so I’m looking to move on.”

      1. KS*

        Thank you! I’m struggling to separate “the job changed into one that has few opportunities for me” from “the efficacy of the entire department is hobbled by institutional distrust and bad decisions, most of my time is taken up doing low-level tasks that aren’t what I was hired to do because the people who used to do them quit, and morale is so far in the toilet that those of us remaining all openly joke about how great it would be to be laid off on January 1” and this really helps. I’m also focusing on being able to articulate what would keep me in a job long-term, so hopefully I’ll be read as someone who had two instances of bad luck rather than unreliable.

  114. Librarian looking for a a change*

    So, I’m a public librarian and recently realized that almost every library I’ve worked at has been managed by a person who is…not good at management (to say the least).

    Have any other public librarians out there made a career change? What did you transition to? I’ve applied to a couple of analyst jobs, light IT, and training positions, but it seems like I just can’t get my foot in the door at any private companies.

    My library is too small to allow me to move to a non-librarian job to get more experience that way.

    1. CM*

      How about a law firm or law library? I don’t think there are tons of these jobs but it’s an option. The work environment is very nice. You’d have to learn some legal research skills by taking a training course.

      1. Cedrus Libani*

        Along similar lines, I’ve seen librarians working in hospitals (organizing patient education materials) and large biotech companies (organizing reference books and chasing down research articles). Don’t think there are tons of these jobs either, and you’d need at least basic knowledge of the subject matter, but if running a one-person library appeals to you it’s an option.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      You might want to think about data management or records management jobs. It might be worthwhile looking up various position descriptions for them on various job sites (library professional ones, corporate, and even government ones), and then seeing if your training/experience dovetails with any of the listed duties/skills. Once you have the skill descriptors identified, using them in your search strategies should retrieve job ads from a fairly diverse set of industries, even if the job titles themselves differ. I hope you will check back in with us in a few weeks or months to let us know what kind of job search strategy you decided to use, how it has been working for you, what kind of interview opportunities you are getting, and when you have transitioned successfully. All the best!

  115. Imaginary Number*

    What’s the best response to an unsolicited email from someone advertising themselves as an EQ (Emotional Quotient) consultant for businesses and things like that?

    A few weeks ago I received a targeted email asking about my interest in this sort of thing and, if I wasn’t the right person to contact, to please forward their email to the right person. I’m in a technical job so I’m most definitely not the right person. But I also don’t think I should be used as help this person find the right contact at my company. My company is large and we have plenty of internal leadership development training that includes squishy stuff like EQ and all that.

    I thought about responding with a “sorry, I can’t help you” but figured that would only open myself up to repeated contact along the lines of “who can?”. However, this individual has sent two follow-ups asking if I’d received their previous email.

    Was ignoring the email the right response? Or would it be appropriate to send a “sorry I can’t help you” email instead. If so, what would be a professional but clear way to say “I’m not going to pass you along to the person who organizes this sort of thing.”

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      My response to aggressive sales follow-ups is to say something like:

      We don’t have the capacity to reply to repeat enquiries so we unfortunately won’t be able to respond to any further emails. We’d appreciate being taken off your list.

    2. Curious Cat*

      I work in comm/media for my organization and I get TONS of emails like this offering consulting work or various analytics programs that could “help” me and my coworkers. Me and my team have a general rule to just ignore these types of emails. Most do send those couple follow-ups of “did you get my previous message(s)?” but we just ignore those, as well.

      If it truly gets to be obnoxious (more than 3 emails), we’ll send a short, “Thank you for your email, but we are not interested in XYZ.” Also sending their stuff straight to spam/junk also works :)

    4. Ghost Town*

      I usually just ignore some of these messages. Occasionally, I’ll dig into the actual message and follow the unsubscribe path (yeah – they are trying to contact “someone specific” but are obviously a spammy message).

      In previous position, I regularly got requests for information to be included on our department’s website. I had a standard response that said no, politely.

      Ignoring the emails is fine. If you want to reply b/c they’ve followed up X number of times, a “sorry, I can’t help” message is fine. I can almost guarantee you that they throwing a ton of messages at the wall to see what will stick.

    5. Camellia*

      Because I have to have accounts with certain businesses for my work in IT, I get these all the time, including ‘follow-up’ ones that say “I’ve tried calling you repeatedly, can you please respond so I know you’ve gotten my emails.” I never reply and they usually stop after the third or fourth one. And sometimes they have the popup for ‘This sender has requested a read receipt, do you want to send one?” and I always reply No.

      Bottom line – spam, don’t reply or it gets worse.

    6. CM*

      Ugh, I keep getting emails like that where the person acts bewildered or annoyed that I haven’t responded to their unsolicited message! It’s a sales tactic to get you to respond. It’s fine to ignore. I block the sender after a couple of emails like this.

    7. This Daydreamer*

      I would be seriously tempted to tell them to go to Helen Waite. But I don’t think you have any reason to do any legwork for an unsolicited sales pitch.

    8. Beatrice*

      I ignore most emails like this.

      I had a vendor once upon a time who sent pushy emails like that, asking to meet to discuss additional business we could give them – but when I ignored the emails, they showed up in person uninvited and try to con their way past our receptionist. I started being extremely firm and clear with them. Saying no firmly is not unprofessional!

    10. DDJ*

      Ignore it. If you get another one, flag it as spam. I view all of those types of emails as spam and delete them as soon as they hit my inbox.

      If it gets extreme, I second Ramona Flowers’ advice on sending a very brief explanation that you will not respond to any further enquiries, with a request to be removed from all mailing lists.

    11. periwinkle*

      Filter to the spam folder. Delete the messages. You are under zero obligation to help them if they think spamming email addresses (purchased from an association database or some such source) is the right sales technique.

      We have a procurement function authorized to work with vendors and spend company money; when I need something from a vendor, I meet with our procurement person to get started on sourcing and writing the RFP. There’s a link on our company’s home page on how to do business with us. These “spam the mailing list” emails go right into the virtual trash can.

  116. Amelia Bedelia*

    Am I being overly judgmental about my supervisor’s plans for our company Christmas party?

    I work in a small office (<20 employees), and we're having our annual Christmas party at a place called Main Event (it has laser tag, rope courses, bowling, arcade games, etc.) in a couple weeks. Everyone always brings their significant others. From 6:00-7:00, we have a private room to eat dinner in. From 7:00-10:00, everyone has unlimited access to the activities named above. My supervisor was talking to a coworker and I about the event, and said, "I want to make sure we discuss strategy over dinner at the party. I'm going to make a list of four or five teams to disperse everyone into for the activities, and then I'll put together a schedule on what team is assigned to what activity at what time." I'm really irritated that my supervisor is wanting to control who everyone spends their time with, and what activities everyone does at what time between 7 & 10 PM. The beauty of HAVING our Christmas party at a place with so many fun options in that everyone can choose how to spend their time. If I want to socialize for two hours with a Martha, I should be able to. If I want to spend all three of my "activity hours"bowling with Fred, I should be able to. She also keeps calling it a "team building" night. It's a CHRISTMAS PARTY, where we should be able to relax and have fun. Also, pretty much everyone brings their spouses, who obviously don't work with us, so where do they come in on the team building side of things?

    Would it be okay for my coworker and I to gently bring up to my supervisor that we don't think teams or a schedule are necessary? We are both fairly certain none of our other employees would be a fan of her plan, either.

    1. Murphy*

      Yeah, I agree. Unstructured time (outside of the dinner) is a lot more fun and party like. Having it too structured removes a lot of the fun. Also it might make it hard for people who want to or need to leave early.

    2. Allypopx*

      It’s definitely worth bringing up! And bring up the points you bring up here: The fun is getting to do the things you’re interested in, socialize in a relaxed way, and that something where outside people are invited might not be the ideal time for team building. You and your coworker bringing it up together is also a good way to show a united front.

      But also decide how much capital you’re willing to spend on this. It might be a lot! But self-reflect before going in how hard you’re willing to push the point if boss shuts you down.

    3. Trillian*

      I totally empathize with you on this. My company had a holiday party at DnB one year and after the very nice dinner was a scavenger hunt, where they counted off everybody into teams… INCLUDING spouses/ partners/ dates whatever. So they were roped into team building as well, on separate teams from their dates. My husband was like “not happening” and we stepped out before the count got to us and did our own thing during the rest of the night. It was awkward running into people who were not as brave and we were teased, but I had just given my (very long) notice that day so was on cloud 9 anyway. Looking back I don’t think it would have killed us to just have gone along with their team building attempt. It WAS super nice that the company even gifted this party in the first place. A lot of places don’t do that anymore.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’d say something like “Jane, I think having a team building night could be a great idea. But this is a Christmas party, with spouses, so I don’t see how that’s going to work. Let’s just have unscheduled fun at this party, since that’s what everyone expects, and plan our team building for some other evening instead.”

      1. CM*

        I’d tweak that a little by not mentioning that team building should be at night, and also propose a specific week or possible dates. Something like, “Can we move our strategy discussions to next week? I think doing it at the party won’t be productive.” You can also add, “We were looking forward to talking with people in a more relaxed environment instead of having assigned groups.”

      1. Amelia Bedelia*

        Yes, the original invite says “as usual, you and your significant other are invited to attend.” Also, my supervisor has mentioned how “almost all the spouses are coming too.”

    7. Kathenus*

      One additional thought. If your supervisor is doing this because only a certain number of people can do each activity at a time, suggest a sign up sheet for different activities and time slots – that achieves the purpose of limiting people to the capacity for the activity, and letting people pick what they want to do and who they want to do it with. Sounds like a fun place for a party though.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      This sounds like it is shaping up into a mandatory ropes course.
      “Oh, my! Look at the time! I really must leave now!”

      Ask her how important it is for people to STAY at this “party”.

  117. Overeducated*

    I am at a huge national conference right now and I think it’s the worst I have ever been to for networking. Maybe it is too big, it seems like people move in preorganized groups and are in too much of a hurry for any spontaneous conversations about work. It’s weird! I really am starting to think the smaller the conference, the better the new connections. Agree or disagree?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      That works if and only if the people at the small conference are ones you want to network with…

        1. fposte*

          That’s my experience; networking at the big conferences is mostly about finding those same people at the right panels anyway.

    2. Mimmy*

      I’m beginning to wonder the same thing. I’m considering attending a national conference this coming June. A friend who’s presenting (and has attended before) said it’s a great networking opportunity, which I want. However, I’ve been to large state-level conferences, and it can be difficult to make meaningful connections, especially when you are by yourself and networking isn’t exactly your forte.

      The organization who puts on this conference also has smaller conferences, so if the next one is relatively close to me, I may go for that one instead.

  118. Bea*

    I’m on my final 3 days!!! I have been training a replacement this entire week and it’s been a complete mess. Trainee needs excessive hand holding and wants to only shadow for this week…when next week she has only 2 days with me. She is shocked and kind of visibly upset she didn’t get a month of training. I’m in small business management that requires the person to jump in and learn on their feet. So this is the worst fit but they’re in a pickle (of their own doing), since they treated me like garbage so I found another job. A job I’ll have 3 days training in. Go figure.

    How long was your training?

    1. BlueWolf*

      When I first started in my role (entry level), I don’t think they were really sure yet what they were going to do with me, and I sort of had informal training here and there. Then someone gave their two weeks’ notice, so I was sort of informally selected to take over from them and = I shadowed them for most of their last two weeks. There are still other colleagues I can ask questions of (plus my manager), but the bulk of my training was that two weeks.

    2. Windchime*

      I probably had about 3 or 4 days. I didn’t have a formal training class or anything, though, since I was doing a similar job with similar tools to my old job. But they did a cool departmental orientation that I thought was really great. There are about 10 people on my team, and I was given a checklist with a team-member’s name and what they would be talking to me about. It gave me a chance to get to know each of my new teammates as well as become familiar with how things were done. So Rachel told me about our ticketing system. Ross showed me how the data is structured, Joey introduced me to a tool I hadn’t used before. They even had one team member whose task was to take me on a walk around my new city “neighborhood” and show me where the good places for lunch were, and where the (awesome) food trucks would park on Food Truck day.

      So I guess mine wasn’t so much training as orientation. But I loved it.

  119. Polaris*

    A friend and I are both teapot coordinators, working alongside another teapot coordinator. We’re all roughly the same age. The problem is that teapot coordinator C got the job largely because he’s the son of our manager’s best friend, and he outputs far fewer teapot reports than coordinator B and I do (and I only joined this year; he joined three months after B). Most of the times when I walk past his desk he’s watching videos on his phone. The difference is something like B and I producing 20 teapot reports a day, with him producing half of that or less.

    Because of the personal connection with our manager, there’s no way he’s ever going to get fired or even reprimanded. He’d have to do something egregious, and he’s not that kind of person – he’s quiet, and occasionally vaguely condescending. He’s just not interested, I think.

    I guess I’m venting more than asking for advice, because I don’t think there’s anything I can change about my situation, and I’m pretty happy with the job otherwise.

    1. Havarti*

      I’m sorry. :( I’ve had to deal with people’s sons coming in and being either useless or damaging. Yeah, I don’t think there’s really anything you can do except hope he screws up really badly one day. Though if they ask you to make 10 additional teapot reports a day to make up for his lack, that’s the hill I would die on. You want Useless McUselessPants to work here? Terrific, but I’m not doing his work for him.

      1. Polaris*

        How it works is we have a queue of assignments that need to be reported, which we then claim and report as we’re able. They don’t really check our output level unless something that needs to be reported is way overdue. So I’m not assigned work because of him, but B and I have an idea of his productivity based on how much the queue decreases each day.

    2. Mints*

      You never know! The president’s daughter’s boyfriend got fired at my company recently. Although the manager who fired him was really hands on and inherited him when she (manager) was hired.

  120. Henrietta Gondorf*

    I got my job offer! It’s been a little harrowing lately, but I got the email yesterday afternoon. So pleased!

  121. Sarah*

    I recently had an interview lined up for a large educational institute. I prepared for the interview and do believe I would have had a good shot at the position (although as we’ve learned on this site, the position is not yours until you are working there.) I woke up the morning of the interview (which was around 11AM) and…promptly fell back in bed. I had the flu and felt feverish, dizzy, coughing. I still made every effort to get dressed, take some medicine and power through but I just couldn’t make it out the door. I called the interviewer straight away (it was around 8:30AM so it went to voicemail) apologizing profusely and stating I would call to reschedule if the position was still open. I called the next day after I had gotten medication from my doctor and felt better. I never heard from her again. It saddens me and I’ve blamed myself. Is there anything I could have done differently?

    Also-I just want to say I love Ask A Manager and find a lot of commenter’s to be just as helpful as Alison herself. It’s awesome.

  122. Considering career change*

    I’m considering a career change that would require me to go back to an entry level position (IT/Infosec, help desk). I’m not senior in my current career, but not junior either. Did you make a similar career change? How did it work out?

  123. Cassie*

    I wanted to share some advice I received this week from my friend Jane.

    At her work holiday party last year, for which spouses were invited, Jane developed a code with her husband. Instead of expecting him to be able to memorize a bunch of faceless names beforehand, they had a catch phrase to warn him to be super-duper careful and ultra-polite instead of “base level polite”. For example, for a high-level exec or someone who tended to be socially difficult, she would introduce the person and say “Fergus is a great guy” and he would know that meant the person required special handling.

    She said it worked really well, and kept them both from stressing out about social minefields. Just thought this might be timely for folks in the commentariat.

    2. JD*

      This reminds me of how my SO and I do the “introduce yourself first since I don’t remember their name” act when someone is walking up to us that I recognize but cannot recall their name. Works every time.

  124. Amelia*

    Two office space issues. We moved this past summer to a new space. The new setup has our group in one room shared with another group with rows of desk. I’ve tried to sketch it below, X face a wall on one side and Y’s face the other wall. We can’t rearrange the room (long desks all connected). There’s no half walls or anything between desks, leading to the joy of messy coworkers desk exploding onto my minimalist setup. Of the remaining walls, one wall is glass with the door to our space and is a hallway, the other wall is a window to the outside. Very fishbowl.

    XXXXXXX
    YYY
    XXX
    YYYYYYY

    Any advice for a dealing with co-workers who stare at your screen? It’s harmless, just annoying and not helping the anxious everyone is watching me feeling. I used to be rarely with this room but now my tasks have shifted me more toward desk work. One particular person sits way down the row from me and does this weird stretch and lean to obviously peer down toward my end’s computers. Another likes to turn sideways in the row leading to more direct staring at me as a person. My boss likes having us all in the same space, I tried feeling him out about me working from elsewhere. I think it’s more on me to not feel anxious about this setup, any advice?

    Other problem is temperature control. Everyone in the room agrees its too cold. In the summer/fall facilities came in response to request to adjust the temperature and commented “it feels great in here!” and we were supposed to all just live with that despite him not working in this room ever. It’s now winter and our hopes of a warmer time are dashed. It’s currently 50s outside and feels cooler than that inside this room. I’ve got two sweaters on, my coworker is wearing her winter coat all the time. Any advice for wording to bring up with the same facilities guy again? I think maybe the guy can’t actually change the temperature but it’s unclear who else to ask, we’ve had no luck searching the hallways for a thermostat. I work for a university.

    Thanks for letting me vent too!

    1. Colette*

      For the temperature, bring in a thermometer. I’ve had good responses when I can tell them the actual temperature I am seeing at my desk (or rather my coworker’s desk, since I don’t have one at my desk).

    2. SarahKay*

      Heating – it can also help to remind facilities that there’s a big difference between a comfortable temperature for someone who is moving around and being reasonably active vs someone who is sat at a desk doing nothing more lively than typing.
      Also, a surprisingly small change can make a big difference to comfort! Our office is having a bit of a cold spell this week with the thermometer on my desk showing 20 C (about 68 F, I think), and that means I get pretty cold when I’ve been sitting still for an hour. As in, I’m using my heated mouse and have a blanket over my legs. Normally the thermometer sits at about 22 – 23 C (75-76 F) which is not *that* much higher but sure feels a lot more comfortable!
      Co-workers who stare at your screen – can you get a screen protector? They’re pretty good at making your screen display unreadable unless you’re at a direct right angle to them. You can always claim it’s to cut down glare, if anyone is rude enough to ask why you got it.

      1. I get that*

        Actually 7 degrees Fahrenheit is quite a big difference. Especially when it’s from below to a above 70 degrees.

        1. SarahKay*

          True, but being in the UK for me it’s only 2.5 C, which is such a small number it feels like it shouldn’t matter as much as it actually does.

    3. Bacon Pancakes*

      Ahhhh Uni and the temp!! I hated that aspect of Grad School. Always 50 in the winter and turn the heat up to 80 on the first day of spring! Aren’t you happy we turned up the thermostat? Why are you complaining??!!
      As far as the screen staring, there is a microfilm you can place on a monitor that means people can’t see what is on your screen unless they are directly in front of it. Ask for/purchase one out of pocket.

    4. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      On the temperature: I don’t know about your building, but it’s possible that the thermostat controls more than just your one area — so making it warmer in your area, might make it too warm in another area . My ancient building at my university has one central control for the whole building. So the people in the open floor with a wall of windows facing south get the same amount of air as the people in offices without windows in the middle of the floor. To make it warm enough for the middle, we’d be cooking the window people. To make it cool for them, office people freeze. Classrooms are going to need more air than offices. I can actually feel about a 10 degree shift as I walk around the floor depending on north-south-east-west facing windows. It’s crazy. Then, we had renovations done on the floor below us this summer. Workmen tearing out/laying carpet, painting, etc. And they adjusted the thermostat to make it livable for them…while the rest of us brought in illicit space heaters just to function. I’m not sure facilities is going to be able to fix your problem, even if they can change the temperature.

  125. Cedrus Libani*

    I’ve been applying for jobs (in the US). There’s standard HR boilerplate to ask if you are, or have ever been, disabled.

    So. I do have a qualifying condition. But I’ve never needed accommodations at work; I’m a desk jockey, so my minor physical limitations aren’t an issue.

    I don’t identify as disabled, and I would feel very odd marking “yes” to that question. Admittedly, I also don’t want to hurt my chances by making employers think I’d be a problem. But by the strict definition, I’m disabled; there’s no “basically fine now, thanks science!” option.

    Should I get over myself and let the nice equal-opportunity bean counters do their job? Or are my instincts correct, and I should keep marking “no”?

    1. CM*

      I had the same dilemma! I mark “no,” I figure it’s easier than needing to explain myself in the future.

    2. CAA*

      In most companies, the answers to those questions are hidden from the hiring manager and have absolutely no impact on whether or not you get the job. You’re also not legally required to answer them. So, do whatever you prefer.

    3. Student*

      Do you want your prospective company to get government credit for hiring disabled folks, or not?

      Your hiring manager will likely not see it. It’s something the government tracks on the back end; the company is asking because they have to, not because they want to. You aren’t obligated to answer, nor to answer truthfully, but know that the HR rep is going to mark something down for you if you don’t mark something down yourself.

      If you don’t feel that hiring you, specifically, should get your company brownie points with the government for hiring disabled folks, then mark no. If you want them to get the brownie points for hiring you, mark yes.

  126. The future will be better*

    Hey all!

    Curious for opinions! I’m planning on going back for a MS to switch fields. One of the highly ranked programs has their entire MS degree online – awesome! I think? I could start a year earlier (rolling admissions), and it’s a math/programming (Applied Math) style degree, so there’s not a huge need for in person labs or anything. I’m contemplating applying to a few in person programs, but I could essentially be almost done by the time I wait for the admissions process, and there aren’t too many better programs anyway. Anyone here have experience getting an MS degree online?

    Thanks!

    1. MS seeker*

      I’m almost done with my MS in IT, and I straddled a curriculum shift that moved it mostly online. I found it much more convenient to do online, particularly since the in-person aspects of the degree were meant to address issues I’m already strong in (mostly public speaking/presenting, which I’ve done non-stop for over a decade now).

      Online learning also seems to cut down on the group work, of which I greatly approve! Group projects in an adult learners’ graduate program are a bit tone deaf, IMO. People are already struggling to juggle their personal and professional commitments, and having to meet up with classmates burdens the students without offering enough benefits to make it worth the hassle. People already in a career have passed the “freshman pratfall” stage of learning how to work with others, and student group work can’t replicate the power dynamics that make employment group work hard to navigate.

      Frankly, I think any computing-intensive degree that doesn’t offer at least partial online learning is behind the times, and wouldn’t be as useful/competitive. Since you mention programming, this seems to apply.

      1. periwinkle*

        You’ll still get group work in an online master’s program. While pursing my MS I discovered Dropbox, Skype, and Google Docs – essential tools for virtual teamwork! Synchronous meetings are really challenging when your team lives in different time zones, but it can be managed.

    2. periwinkle*

      I earned my MS entirely online a few years ago and am in another online graduate program now. My employer has an amazing tuition benefit so pretty much all of my colleagues have earned at least one grad degree and many have done so through online and hybrid programs.

      Time management is critical if you are working full time and taking graduate-level coursework. It’s even more critical if a course includes group project work, although that seems less likely for applied math programs. Having to work a full day, deal with normal household responsibilities, and then spend 1-3 hours a night writing papers or doing homework is exhausting. Your weekends will be taken up by more class work. It’s not impossible but you do need discipline to handle it.

      Handy tip: If you’re a verbal learner like me, it really helps to talk to yourself about the material you’re studying. I used to read the materials and then explain the key points out loud, using my own wording and including analogies. Sometimes I would give a lecture to random objects but usually my cats were the audience.

  127. GradStudentToBe*

    I got into grad school earlier this week and I’m super excited, but nervous about balancing my full-time job (that often requires evening and weekend work) with going to school part time. The degree is related to my job, and my boss is very supportive but she’s never had a employee do this before so we’re both in new territory . I start classes next month and I’m starting to get anxious about how to balance it at–any advice?

    1. Red Reader*

      If you’re not already a calendar-ing type, start now. Hopefully your instructors will provide assignment calendars (even broad ones) with the syllabus – Put everything you can from it onto your calendar as far as due dates go. if your job has major deadlines over the course of the semester, put those onto your calendar. Look for trouble spots. Is your evening-and-weekend work generally last minute, or is it more planned out? Can you make arrangements with your boss to never have to work (Tuesday evenings and Sunday mornings or whatever) and then block those out on your personal calendar for schoolwork and studying? I mentioned above that I spent a couple years working full time and part time and in school more than full-time, and all of my commitments – my volunteer gig, my part-time retail job, all my friends – knew that Tuesday nights were homework, and don’t even call me, I won’t answer, don’t schedule me, I will give away the shift, if it is a Tuesday between 5pm and midnight I have a hot date with my textbooks. (And if I didn’t need it for schoolwork one week, then I had a guaranteed chunk of downtime where I could, gasp, take myself out to dinner with a regular book or something.)

      Here’s the big thing that works for me right now: The semester is four and a half months. I can put up with ANYTHING for four and a half months, and then things will change. The semester that starts in January will have me driving an hour away to campus to be in one class from 6:30-8p and another from 8-10pm, then another hour home, every Monday night and then getting up at 6am Tuesdays to work. It’s going to suck, but I can cope with it for four months, and this time next year I won’t remember how much it sucked and I’ll have masters degrees.

    2. MS seeker*

      HOARD your PTO. I’m almost done my MS, and despite careful planning I sometimes had last-minute crises to navigate. Most recently, my thesis advisor requested a bunch of changes I hadn’t anticipated, and I needed a day off to make it happen in the (insane) time frame she wanted.

    3. Amelia*

      Get a physical planner or make an excel sheet you can print. As soon as you get your syllabi take all the dates and toss them in there. Then go through and mark down reading goals we need to read X articles or X chapters before next week so I’ll do 2 papers/chapters this night. Makes it so much easier to keep from falling behind or into the whoops it’s Sunday and I have 5 million things to do for this week habit.

    4. TL -*

      Seconding getting a planner (or google calendars or whatever works for you.) Schedule everything – including down time – and be realistic about a) getting things done in a timely manner, including breaking assignments up into manageable parts and getting things done early and b) how long things are going to take and what kind of timeline you need to give to them.

      That is, if you have an assignment given 4 weeks ahead, it’ll be much more valuable to spend half an hour or so when you get it thinking, “this’ll take about 20 hrs”, breaking it up into 5-7 hrs/week and then sticking to that, plus giving yourself an hour or two buffer the day before it’s due.

  128. Helpful*

    How do you improve visual-spatial ability? Mine is rather poor and I wonder if there are any fun games or toys that might help me improve in this area. Thanks!

    1. NaoNao*

      Jigsaw puzzles! But important (and geeky) caveat: not the typical ones that have standardized openings and pegs.

      You want a puzzle where the diecut die is heterogenous, which creates unique puzzle pieces *and spaces*.

      Springbok, specifically vintage from the 70s and 80s, is the brand you want to go to for this.

    5. Bess*

      Video games! Try the classic Portal. The 3-d Zelda games are always a combo of puzzles and action/adventure style combat–Breath of the Wild is really good.

      Combat games with a lot going on, where you can’t pause, can really force you to focus and get better, too.

  129. Pudgy Patty*

    I suspect there is no solution to this, but — what do you do when you’re working somewhere you don’t like where the pay is anywhere from 25-50% above market rate? I live somewhere with an extremely high COL but where the overall wages are low. (To the point where I genuinely don’t understand how anyone is able to make it.) I am paid verrrrry well for my job, and even within my own company, I feel like I’m paid so much more than I’m actually worth/relative to other peers I see who work super hard but I bet make less than I do.

    I guess there’s two things here: I want to leave because I am very unhappy. But there’s nowhere else for me to go. I don’t have the right skills to get a remote position (which I understand are very competitive). But the longer I stay here, the more guilt I feel — that I make more than probably everyone I know, AND that I make more for relatively less work that my colleagues in my department. And again, the misery. It’s a golden handcuff situation.

    I would love to leave and start anew, but I worry the stress of not having money would become worse than my daily job stress. Any advice on how I can cope? And maybe how I can try to find other places that may pay well despite the market not being there?

    1. Havarti*

      First of all, don’t feel guilty. Think of the extra money as payment to help offset the misery. Also that sounds like imposter syndrome talking too so tell that little voice to hush. Staying in a position where you’re miserable is not conducive in the long term – you’ll likely burn out anyway. So the question is can you, despite being in a high COL area, save money? Like stash away as much money as you can as a cushion for any step you take in the future. Are you open to moving to an area where the COL and wages more in line with each other and getting a job there? I would use a high-paying job I hated to hoard as much money for as long as my sanity allowed and then I’d get the heck out of Dodge.

      1. Pudgy Patty*

        So, the problem is, though my salary is good, it is still not enough for me to be in the black where I live. I carry debt every year and money constantly stresses me out.

        I really want to leave to a cheaper COL place, but my partner’s work will keep us here at least a few more years. (There’s part of me that thinks he’ll never want to leave here either, which is another issue to deal with, sigh…) I am carrying a decent amount of debt right now, and while I could pay everything off with investments, I’m not sure that’s the best strategy. (I need financial advice for the weekend open thread!)

        All of this financial insecurity makes me feel like I have to stay at this job, and honestly, I need to make even more money to get out of my current debt. To get a pay raise in this market, I’d have to become CEO, and I honestly want less responsibility than I have now, not more. So… I guess I’ve answered this for myself. I just hate this answer. Sigh!!

        1. Havarti*

          Man, I am sorry. Jedi hugs if you want them. I’m not great with financial stuff but I don’t know about using investments to pay off debt is the way to go. Like you don’t want to burn through all your investments. And if you did pay off all your debt, would you wind up in the red again? I do think you need advice from a pro. I don’t know what debts you have but you need to sit down with someone and figure out the fastest way to pay it off or re-finance or something if you haven’t already.

          Is your partner suffering under a similar load of debt? Does he have issues with the COL as well? Does he make the same as you? Less? More? You don’t need to answer but think about what sort of situation he’s in. Is your partner on Team Us? Is he listening to you about these issues? Is he helping in any way? Does he understand you’re slowly drowning? Would he be agreeable to maybe you moving away somewhere else while he wraps up his job here?

          Remember you need to take care of yourself first and foremost. If you’re in a situation that isn’t sustainable long-term, you gotta do something to fix that. And if your partner isn’t supportive, well… he wouldn’t be my partner for much longer, that’s for sure. :/

    2. Anon for This*

      Been there! Except without the guilt; I was happy to be paid what I was being paid.

      I did, in the end, decide to leave my overpaid-but-awful-for-me job, and I couldn’t be happier about that. But my situation sounds like it was easier than yours: I live in a medium-COL area, my new salary was reasonable for the COL (although it was a 40% pay cut from what I had before!), and I’m married, so the overall hit to our income wasn’t as much.

  130. Bacon Pancakes*

    I have a subordinate who cannot seem to take directions. Everything I tell her goes in one ear and out the other!
    Technically, I am not a supervisor, but I supervise all the biological surveys and she has been hired to conduct surveys I oversee. Some of the things are inconsequential; she asked about uniform allowance and I gave her everything I have on how to apply for the allowance reimbursement. This week she goes to my boss because she couldn’t figure it out and “no one has helped her AT ALL”. But I already went over the whole process with her once and gave her the directions on how to apply and told her who she can contact. NBD, but super annoying.
    I gave her a report to work on two weeks ago that was due yesterday. Brand new formatting because the system has changed. I gave her the new format and the old report and told her to work on it in the new format. Yesterday she comes in and she “won’t have ANY time to work on surveys because she has barely had ANY time to work on the report”. I get it, we had three holidays this month. But the surveys need to be done, so I told her I would complete the report. Suddenly it is “oh, well it shouldn’t take you that long, I only have a few more changes”. Ooookay. I go to write the report and she has…. nothing – absolutely NOTHING – of value. The report she worked on was in the old format entirely. Nothing that was needed was completed. I spent four hours on it, and sent it to her and my boss for edits/freah eyes befoe I submitted it. She was in the office when I sent it, but she never even opened it. I ended up sending it off without her review at all.
    I am at a loss because she has been here for three years as a seasonal, she wants my job, she wants me to go to bat for her to be given the job she “deserves” but the quality of work I see from her and her overall attitude about her job is very off-putting. I have raised these concerns but they have gone no where, and I am at a loss. Every encounter I have right now is negative because I am constantly pointing out the lack of quality in her work and she brushes it off as “not my job” when it is. I can’t go out and hold her hand to make sure she does everything right!!
    I am just not sure where to go from here. I have no authority to write up a PIP or coach. Do I just ignore her poor work? Keep nudging her to do better? Gently reminder her that I have no intention of leaving so she needs to move on? My other (high performing) aid is constantly picking up the slack and it is unfair to them also.

    1. Allypopx*

      Who does have the power to manage her? That’s the person you need to talk to. Or you need to talk to your boss about getting management authority. You can’t be responsible for someone you have no power to coach or apply consequences to.

      1. Bacon Pancakes*

        That would be my boss. He hired her and invites her back. I have been bringing these things up to him, but as far as I know he has not addressed it. I told him I had always given her little oversight because I was always given the impression that she did a good job, but while entering some of last years data (which I couldn’t do earlier because she didn’t store them in a central place) I found data sheets where she didn’t even write down the date or location of the survey! That is BAD BAD BAD, totally unusable data.
        I think the real problem is I am starting to feel like he does not want me bringing this up. I have mentioned the bad attitude and “not my job” philosophy and he agreed that it was in fact her job and seemed appalled at the attitude. I am at a loss because I don’t want to continue to appear to have a vendetta against her (I don’t) but everything she is submitting is poor quality and I am not willing to accept bad work as being “good enough”.

    2. CM*

      When you said you “have raised these concerns,” did you raise them with your subordinate or with her manager? If you haven’t escalated to her manager, I agree with Allypox — that’s your first step. Other than that, I think all you can do is be clear with her that you’re not going to recommend her for any job until you see a consistent and sustained improvement in the quality of her work.

      1. Bacon Pancakes*

        I raised the issue to both. She literally walked away while I was talking to her about one thing and said “not my job” when it was what she had been directly assigned to do.
        My boss has listened when I bring it up but as far as I know not addressed it.

        1. Allypopx*

          “I’m concerned this is still happening. What steps would you recommend we take to help get her where she needs to be? I would be happy to help coach her, but don’t feel like I have the authority to do so with the current dynamic.”

          If that’s true, and it’s easier to teach her to do it right than constantly clean up after her, I think you have to keep pushing. You don’t sound to me like you have a vendetta, you sound frustrated that a recurring problem hasn’t been addressed.

        2. Kathenus*

          You might also consider a meeting with her and her manager at the same time – that way if she says you aren’t giving her direction you can point out where you did so, etc. And seems less likely she’ll get up and walk away during it. This way the three of you can have one discussion where all the players are together at one time – hopefully resulting in concrete expectations for her that are understood and agreed to. Don’t know if you have the power to do this, but if this doesn’t work, can you say you don’t want to work with her anymore because she can’t or won’t do the job as required?

          1. Bacon Pancakes*

            Ugh, the dreaded call-out-meeting! I have been considering this but with a very “I don’t waannnaa” mindset. It is just so awkward.
            I originally requested zero involvement on the project she was hired for, but find myself doing some portion every year. Partially because some aspects make more sense to have a permanent employee involved on; partially because she typically leaves 2-3 months before the project has wrapped up and I have to finalize everything.

  131. BA*

    My company has offices nationwide and a few overseas. Sometimes offices need some temporary help and will advertise internally for volunteers to temporarily relocate. Our European office has an opening; the tea pots they make there are interesting, I’ve worked with their team before, and my current office occasionally makes their kind of tea pots. While doing a mental happy dance, I noticed the dates. It’s during our company-wide annual teapot extravaganza. Of course they need help! All offices need help that time of year!

    I can’t even apply without permission from my boss, Jane. During this year’s teapot extravaganza our office was swamped. Really, really swamped. What was usually a 5-8 person job was handled by 3 of us. Jane was vocally very appreciative of my efforts and acknowledged that without me they would have had serious problems. I imagine that asking for permission to leave for next year’s extravaganza would be extremely tone deaf.

    I just need someone to tell me I’m reading this situation right and should just let the opportunity pass.

    1. Sualah*

      How far away is the extravaganza? If it’s far enough in advance, and Jane is a good boss, I would think she could understand why you would to expand your career development, network with new people, etc. If she would have enough time to advertise internally for help or actually hire sufficient staff, I don’t see why it would hurt to ask her about it. Especially if you’re coming back to this position after the relocation, you can come back with all sorts of new ideas which could be helpful. I don’t know how Jane is, but in general, I think it’s not completely insane to approach her about it.

      1. BA*

        The opening in their office and the extravaganza are at the exact same time. The whole mess is 6 months away, but we know it’s coming. It comes every year :) My leaving would force Jane to look for additional help, particularly since this year the coffee pot extravaganza coincidentally took place along with our tea pot fun and made the entire office run around pulling their hair out.

    2. CM*

      I wouldn’t ask. It sounds like you’re pretty sure you wouldn’t get permission to apply, and if you did, it wouldn’t reflect well on you. Normally I’m a proponent of asking for what you want, but I think you’re reading this situation right.

      This may be a little too coy, but possibly you could say to Jane, “I noticed that the European office had an opening and it sounded great, but too bad it’s during the annual teapot extravaganza.” But I don’t think it would change anything here. It seems unlikely she would reply, “You should apply anyway!”

      1. Red Reader*

        That’s not a bad idea though – “I noticed that the European office had an opening and it sounded great, but it’s during the annual teapot extravaganza.” Continue: “I assume that probably won’t be feasible because of our workload here — though if I’m wrong about that, please let me know! – but is this an opportunity that you might be willing to let me look into in the future?”

    3. Bex*

      Could you reach out to the people you’ve worked with in the European office and see if they might have another opening in a different time frame? Tell then you’d love to work with them and learn more about the European teapots, but you can’t leave your team shorthanded during the extravaganza. They might be able to work something out!

  133. SurveyTaker*

    I was just brutally honest in an employee experience survey. It was very negative, but not in a complaining, griping way- I clearly explained the reasons I’m unhappy and offered feedback. I don’t think I wrote anything identifying to my position, but I’m still nervous. The survey is supposed to be totally anonymous (and there isn’t a sign-in for email or anything like that) but if my boss is curious enough to know who flat out said they hate their job, she could totally trace the IP address.

  134. YRH*

    I have a third interview (first in-person) with a company that gets some really bad reviews on Glassdoor (the reviewers seem to work in positions that are different from the one I’m interviewing for). What is the best way to ask about concerns raised in the reviews?

    1. Get a Haircut*

      Catching this a little late, but for what it’s worth, I’ve asked flat-out. That information is public, they should have seen it too, and you are giving them a chance to address it. Are they aware of the problem? What steps are they taking to address it? How they respond will help you gauge if it’s the right fit or not.

  135. A Naan*

    Ack! Here’s an interesting scenario that came up at work today. So I am in charge of recruiting, hiring, and onbearding part-time staff. A former employee who was hired by one of my colleagues (before I started), was brought on, trained, and then never did any actual work for us before they left. Their manager is no longer with the company, but marked the person as not eligible for rehire. The former employee emailed saying she worked with us before and wants to do so again. What is some good verbiage for “We’re not interested in rehiring you”? I want to of course be polite and professional, and I never worked with this employee, so I’m not in a position to speak to what shortcomings she may have had that lead to the decision she was not eligible for rehire.

    1. Help*

      I would day something along the lines of thank toy so much for your interest in our organization but unfortunately we are unable to move forward with your application at this time.

      1. A Naan*

        Thanks, I think what’s got me stuck is that she didn’t “reapply”. She sent an email to her former manager (which was redirected since that person no longer works for us) and said “We worked together before, I’d like to again, and maybe I don’t need to go through the whole process all over again”. I think it was a bit presumptuous of her, but now it’s put me in the awkward position of saying “Actually, no, we can’t work together again”.

    2. Amy*

      Hey, thanks for thinking of us. Ms. so and so is not longer with us, but your email was forwarded to us in her absence. Please feel free to apply using this link… We’ve had a huge response to this ad and we’ll contact you if we need anything further. Thank you.

  136. Buffy*

    I just received a mass e-mail from a director at our University with the title, “Seriously. Please stop running in the hallways.”

    Hahah….

    1. Rainy*

      Ah, December. I’m currently sitting in an empty conference room because offering programming to students in December is dicey at best. I made a PowerPoint, dammit!

      1. Nanc*

        Do kids these days (I’m old and have been out of academia for 12 years!) still go to in-person events? Can you make your presentation into a video and offer it on-demand? If you can work in a super-cute animal pic surely they’ll watch it and share!

        I hope you at least have a delicious beverage in your empty conference room.

        1. Rainy*

          Absolutely–they come to in-person events a LOT. I work with a subset of students, though, who are generally even busier than the average, and there are definitely times of the term when they are considerably less available. This population is, from what I can tell (and my own experience as a member of this population), extremely *unlikely* to watch video presentations on the topics I cover, so I’ve been on the “let’s not” side of the video question.

  137. Peggy*

    I sent this in a few months ago, so I hope it’s fair game for OT now.

    I’ve been in a job for a year and a half, my first job after leaving academia. It’s been fine, but I don’t love it and I would very much like to move on by 2 years. The problem is that since I will still be working here, I can’t ask my boss for a reference as I’m applying to new jobs. So my only references will be from my years as an academic – not people who have seen me manage my program, my budget, work with contractors and clients. Since most jobs I think I would apply for would be more like my current role than my past academic career, this is what I would want to highlight in my application.

    How do I handle this when it comes to references?

      1. Peggy*

        I don’t think so, since I’m not doing work directly for them – I run a program that matches educators with groups looking for classes. So the “clients” mainly have feedback about their teachers, and the teachers don’t know much about how I run the program.

  138. Tris Prior*

    Just a rant: Why, why, WHY would you approve something when it is not what you want?!

    The Powers that Be approved design for a Thing (which is already WAY late getting into production because of said Powers that Be’s continual delays). Great! We put it into production, finished it….. and, surprise, that’s not actually what they want it to look like. And we ONLY even found that out when we asked a somewhat unrelated question.

    Clearly my mind-reading’s on the fritz again, dammit.

  139. Colorado*

    Happy Friday everyone! I’m not sure what I‘m looking for here, maybe validation or someone to say get over it. I’ve dealt with infertility for many years (amongst losing an infant) and although that was years ago and I have a beautiful little girl, baby showers are still very difficult for me. (Although I will attend a close friend’s shower or family member). My work seems to go over the top with these things and it really bothers me. I personally don’t feel it is appropriate because maybe someone else right now is going through that and to have the multiple (and I mean multiple) emails about the date and the gifts and the food is just too much. Then there’s the circulation of the money envelope and the registry links. I have decided to very quietly opt out of it all. It will be noticed (maybe) I’m not there. Is this okay?

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      In most offices, it would be OK. You’ll need to judge whether it would be big problem in your office specifically, but I think we can assure you that it would be normal for some or many folks to passively opt out of these sorts of things.

    2. Murphy*

      I am so sorry for what you’ve gone through.

      That’s definitely OK. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself.

    3. always in email jail*

      Can you sign the card with a generic well-wish and email the organizer that unfortunately you’re (on a deadline/going to be in a meeting/wrapping up a project/any other excuse) and won’t make the shower, then delete all of the other emails that come in about it without reading? If it’s someone you really like but just can’t stomach a shower, maybe send them an email the next morning like “sorry I missed your shower- I hope it was a wonderful time and congratulations!” or something?

      I’m sorry, that’s tough. Hugs to you.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      I haven’t been able to have children for health reasons. When a close colleague announced she was pregnant it was really hard. We didn’t have a baby shower but when she went on leave we gave her some gifts and seeing them was so hard.

      I do wonder if you’ve ever talked to a counsellor or therapist – that can be a way of figuring out some ways of coping with these triggers?

      Is there one person you trust who could step in for you and quietly ensure you are taken off the list and not asked for money etc? And please, take care of yourself. Maybe think about things you could do for self-care when you are upset by this.

    5. TL -*

      Do you use Outlook? You can route emails with specific code words to go into folders – so you could have anything with the phrase “baby shower” go into an email folder you don’t look at or maybe you check once a week or once a month. If you go to other events, like birthday parties, ect… it probably won’t be noticed.

  140. The Curator*

    Today I started a blog!!!!! I am so excited. I know that posting it here under my regular user name would out me, so the question was do I come up with a new user name or burn my old one. So using a new one, The Curator. I’ll let you know how it goes.

  141. Annie Mouse*

    This week has gone to pot. Thought I’d done ok in my real exams earlier this week… forgot to ask one question in one of the sections and so I have to resit them :( Such a stupid thing to forget as well!!

    I’ve not got on fantastically with some of my coursemates at various points but the last two days, they’ve been great. They’ve been sympathetic to the fact some of us didn’t pass and not bragged about the fact they did (to our faces at least) and been supportive of us and helpful. I had a full on meltdown yesterday when things got too much and my friends off the course figured out I wasn’t ok, found me, calmed me down and helped me get sorted. My tutor was a great help as well. Was really good to know I had support when I needed it. Fingers crossed for the resit!!

      1. Annie Mouse*

        I have to retake the exams again. There were certain criteria I had to meet, and some of them involved asking specific assessment questions. I missed one of the ones deemed important. Not sure I agree with the importance of that particular question in that particular section (and I remembered it in all the others where I agree it should be considered important!) but according to the marking criteria it was essential. Just such a daft thing to trip up on.

  142. Nessabee*

    Hello, first time poster here, but I’ve been reading AAM for some time. I’ve got a bit of a frustrating situation about work. (Sorry it’s so long.)

    After a few years of working retail and feeling miserable about it, I went back to school for a couple years and learned some web design skills, as well as more print design skills. I graduated in April and was confident about being able to find a good job. My husband had bought me Alison’s book, and I did my best to apply her advice.

    All summer, I only had a single in person interview. By August, I was getting a bit desperate and was encouraged to reconsider retail. I attended a group interview for a local tech store and got the job, but I was not happy about it. I started to get anxiety attacks during most mornings and it took everything I had to just force myself to go to a job I knew I would hate. I had to keep job searching.

    In late September, I managed to snag an interview. It was short, but they liked my portfolio and invited me back for a second interview a week later. At the second interview, they had a contract ready for me to sign if I was willing to accept their offer. I would be freelance, would invoice them at the end of every month, and my pay rate would be renegotiated after 3 months. I accepted the offer and was super excited.

    Around the same time, an old classmate of mine (from a Graphic Communications course that I took 10 years ago) reached out to me on Facebook about how his job at a small publisher needs an extra hand, as he has had to cut his hours back to due moving further away. He said they would appreciate the help and that I’m not obligated to stay if I find better work.

    It seemed like a pretty good situation to have a part time job doing design at a small office, and freelancing with another company. Being able to set my own schedule and work at a desk sounded lovely to me! I happily put in my notice at my retail job, and worked at this small publisher on my days off. At first, I got to do some simple photo editing and resizing and I was really enjoying the new job.

    But then that project finished. I was then tasked to help the framer in the basement with framing all of those pictures, but I picked up the task quickly and got along well with the framer. I ended up having more shifts doing the framing than I did doing the editing. I also ended up photocopying and hole punching a 200 page book.

    Then came the shrink wrapping. The company makes calendars, and it is now time for those calendars to be printed, shrink wrapped and sent to buyers. I was in charge of doing all the shrink wrapping. I am not very good at shrink wrapping and fought a lot with the machine, but I gradually got better. I’m still not as fast as my boss is at shrink wrapping, but my top speed is still acceptable to him.

    I had spent more than a couple of weeks doing nothing but shrink wrapping during my shifts. Last week, I came in one morning to find no one else in the office. My boss was away, and the other designer who had been assigning me tasks was not around either. I figured I would head into the basement to see if there was more shrink wrapping ready for me to do, but the basement was locked. I knew the key code to enter the basement, but didn’t realize there was a second key code needed to enter the second door. I ended up just sitting around for 40 minutes until the framer came in and let me into the basement.

    There was no more shrink wrapping to do, so he gave me a small task of working with the paper cutter until someone with more authority could assign me work. The other designer came in after that and he just said there was nothing for me to do that day, so I should just go home. I only worked for half an hour that day.

    That was the first in a series of days where I was sent home early because there wasn’t any work for me. On Tuesday, I finally got to do some design work again, but my boss was not pleased with my work when he saw it. A few stripes are too “complex” and too much colour. He said it needed to be much more simple and mostly white because it was a freebie ad for the company. (The other designer didn’t know it was going to be free. He just told me to make something pretty.) My boss seemed kind of upset with my coworker and told him I needed to be given proper guidelines.

    My boss also handed out Daily Time Log sheets that he wanted us to fill in throughout the day so he can check our efficiency. We are to write the task, the time we started and finished it and the details of the task on the sheet. My boss seemed displeased about my coworker’s efficiency, despite the fact that he does a lot of work to keep the ship afloat, doing all sorts of paper work, orders, invoices and answers most of the phone calls and emails.

    Now, because I am still new, there’s really not much I can do on my own. I need the other designer (or my boss, but he is rarely around and I don’t know where he goes) to dole out work for me to do and teach me how it’s supposed to be done and where to find certain files. Sometimes he is very busy, or on the phone, or on his hour long lunch break, or driving around doing errands, so I sometimes have to wait a bit before I’m given something else to do. Wednesday, I only worked for one hour. After my task was completed to the best of my ability, I hung around on a long “lunch break” until the other designer said I should just go home. They also brought in a different girl to do shrink wrapping, so that was another reason why there was nothing for me to do. This morning, I was also told that there wouldn’t be work for me for a few days.

    Oh, and that other freelance job? There was a team meeting in early November where I met the rest of the creative team, but I haven’t heard anything since.

    With this office job, it really seems like they need to hire a full time admin whose job it is to answer phones and emails and do paperwork for orders and invoices.The phone rings every 5-10 minutes. My boss also tends to leave his papers everywhere and needs everything to be printed out because he doesn’t know how to computer. He has a desk, but he doesn’t use it. I think he even has a full office too, but it’s packed full of junk and unusable. The framer says he’s a bit of a “pack rat”, but I recognize the signs of a hoarder (I grew up with both parents being hoarders).

    The framer also says that they had another guy hired as a graphic designer for a while, but he quit because he was never actually given any graphic design work to do and didn’t like doing shrink wrapping and framing and janitorial work. Apparently, my old classmate, who can only come in twice a week now, was the one mostly in charge of administrative duties, but I only come in on days when he’s not working because otherwise there would not be enough computers to do design work on.

    I’m already looking for other work. This office is terribly managed. Should I even bother putting it on my resume as a graphic design job if I’ve barely done any graphic design in the 2 months I’ve been here, despite it being the only “office job” I’ve ever had? It pays more than retail, but that doesn’t amount to much when I’m working less than 10 hours a week. It takes me about an hour to get to work and an hour to get home if I have to leave early because my husband can’t pick me up. I’ve been spending more time in transit than actually working.

    TL;DR: I got a job through an old classmate as a part time graphic designer, but I’ve done more shrink wrapping and framing work than design work. They’ve brought in someone else for shrink wrapping, so now I’ve been told to go home early or not come in at all because there is no work for me to do. This has been my only “office job”, but should I even bother putting it on my resume? I really need more reliable work.

    1. Havarti*

      Naw, this place is such a hot mess, I wouldn’t put it on my resume. You need to get out of there. Have you tried temp agencies? I don’t know if there are any geared towards graphic design but office work like data entry would be seen as more respectable than retail on your resume. I got a degree in art but my job has nothing to do with art because art didn’t pay the bills. Everyone’s an artist these days and with the internet, you’re competing in an international market as well. Don’t count too heavily on that freelance job either. Those kinds of things fall through all the time. And never, ever, do free work in exchange for exposure. But I think designing takes time to get up and running as a successful business so you’re gonna need a plan B.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        “Have you tried temp agencies? I don’t know if there are any geared towards graphic design but office work like data entry would be seen as more respectable than retail on your resume.”

        There’s The Creative Group, but I’m not in the graphic design field and have never used this agency, so I have no clue how it is.

      2. Nessabee*

        I haven’t had any luck with that sort of thing, no. I sent my resume to a recruitment agency that has a focus on digital creative media and never heard anything back. I suppose I could try again, since it’s been several months.

        I also know to not work for “exposure”. I figured learning some HTML, CSS and JavaScript skills would make me more hireable, but it looks like that’s not the case. :/

  143. Dr. Scudworth*

    What do you guys think of LinkedIn’s Easy Apply? All you do is click the “Easy Apply” button next to certain positions and it sends your profile, a phone number, and a resume. So, no cover letters! Cover letters always trip me up and it’s a relief to apply without them but I’ve always been told that no job will seriously look at you without a good cover letter. So, is Easy Apply just too easy? Would any jobs actually contact me from this service?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      The interview I was talking about above I got by using the Easy Apply link. I also sent the recruiter a connection request with a personal note (which she said impressed her).

    2. CAA*

      I think people who post jobs on LinkedIn have to enable this option, so if they’ve done that then there’s no reason why they wouldn’t accept applications that way.

  144. Candi*

    Almost ready to go back to college! (Non-traditional student.)

    Just one thing: an Associate’s would be faster, but a Bachelor’s would be better for a long term career, right?

    (Data management, if anyone’s interested in specifics.)

    1. Rainy*

      Yay! I’m so happy for you.

      I’m not sure about data management in particular, but in general I think a bachelor’s is going to be better for long-term advancement. And depending on what sector you wanted to work in, might be mandatory for some job classes.

    2. Ghost Town*

      If you haven’t already, look around at job ads for jobs you’d like to have immediately after graduation, as well as a few promotions later. What sort of educational experience and background are they asking for? That will give you an idea of which degrees will best help you get where you want to go.

    3. Beaded Librarian*

      Could you start with the Associates then transfer the credits and work on your Bachelors? One it can be cheaper and two you might be able to get your foot in the door while working on your next degree. That’s what I did getting my Bachelors in Library Science and it helped both with cost and getting my first job.

    4. Yorick*

      Some universities have 2 and 4 year degrees, so you could start with the Associates and then continue if you want to.

    5. Hanna_Solo*

      It never hurts to start with the associates and then transfer your credits to a 4 year school. You will save money, and if you decide that data management isn’t for you, or, if you find that you might be interested in another aspect of the field, it won’t be as big of a transition.

      Good luck! I’ve got one year left on my degree and it’s challenging, but worth it.

    6. Candi*

      Thank you everyone!

      The plan is to start at the local community college, then transfer to a four year. This particular college does this a LOT; they have a low graduation rate but a high transfer rate (with high graduation rate off the transfers), and there’s a specific office where their duties include assisting with tranfers -the program even has its own arcronym. :P

      I feel so bad for the workers there, though. From what I’ve seen: ALL the open plan for EVERYTHING. Except financial stuff. They actually have cubicles. Ow ow ow.

  145. Hazel Mazel Bazel*

    This is a purely theoretical question but I’d love to get people’s opinions on it. Tthere is a position that years in the future I could potentially move into, and it pays extremely well. But, the job is making sure everything is running to budget and if something goes over budget, figuring out where to cut the budget somewhere else and if you can turn in everything a little bit (not too much) underbudget so much the better. And I’ve noticed, that quite frequently the solution for saving money to so screw over the non union, entry level employees by telling them they are working certain days, and then deciding they aren’t needed after all which really messes with your ability to pay rent and eat and those necessary things! For example, most entry level people were told they were working Mon-Wed on thanksgiving week and everyone was expected to keep those days free, and then the Thursday before thanksgiving everyone was told they had the whole week off, unpaid. So my question is, if you are the person in charge of making those decisions, if you are the person in charge of making budget decisions is there a way to be good at your job and pro-labor so to speak, or do you just kind of accept that you do the best you can but your job is to protect the best interest of the company and everyone will just deal with it? (I personally am of the opinion that making entry level jobs so perilous is what keeps this industry so narrow in the type of people who can be employed because you generally need parents who are willing to support you through the first couple of years, which cuts out swathes of talented people, but that’s hard to justify on a balance sheet).

    1. CAA*

      I guess if that’s normal practice in that industry then entry level people know that and expect it and they do just deal with it. Some U.S. states are creating laws to prevent that kind of schedule shenanigans though, so either this industry will have to move to less labor friendly states or they’ll have to learn how to schedule and budget properly.

  146. Constructive*

    I know it’s illegal (under protected concerted action laws) to prohibit employees from talking about their salaries and working conditions, or to retaliate against employees who do so. What about discouraging people from doing so by talking about how it might affect morale, team cohesion, etc.?

    1. Anecdata*

      But does it really?

      It affects my morale when I find out all the men are getting paid more than me. It affects my morale when I don’t understand how my salary is determined. It affects my morale when I can’t discuss with my manager what kind of a raise I would like, and what I need to do to be eligible for one. It affects my morale when I need to wonder if I’m being compensated fairly.

      It doesn’t affect my morale just to know/discuss salary & working conditions with my colleagues.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        Agreed. I assume people who are more senior than me make more money than me, just as I assume that people who are junior to me make less money than me. I assume peers who perform better than me make more money than me.

        If I found out someone junior to me or someone who performed more poorly than me was compensated better, yes, that would hurt my morale — but shouldn’t it? I think companies who feel the need to suppress these conversations are probably companies who are not compensating their employees fairly and might deserve the lower morale.

    3. TL -*

      The only reason it would hurt morale and team cohesion, ect… is if salary structures were unfair and biased. Which is a problem best solved by fixing your salary structures, not trying to hide the problems.

  147. goldy*

    I only just discovered this site and though it’s weird to say this, it’s almost a relief to know that a lot of people have dealt with shitty work environments/bosses. Does that make sense? My last job treated me pretty horribly when I was pregnant and I feel like I am continuing to deal with ptsd a couple years after I’ve left my last job and not sure if that is normal? This is a little back ground:

    I worked in a corporate law firm, with a lot of different teams working on their own clients. In hindsight, I should have spotted the signs from the first day where I found out that I was replacing someone who went on a week vacation and didn’t care enough about the place to come back or even the glassdoor reviews. I had been looking for work prior to this place for a year out of grad school and was just glad I had a job at that point. This a very niche law firm and with no actual training procedures in place, you are pretty much thrown into the wolves and rely on your peers to train you. My co-worker who was tasked with showing me the ropes, threw me under the bus my 3rd day on the job where I literally had no idea what I was doing. She was a bully who no one in the office liked and/or had issues with. My supervisor however loveeedddd her (surprise surprise) and had this coworker (our peer) relay duties/info to team members, check our work and boss us around. My supervisor was incredibly passive aggressive and instead of just having a session with her direct reports to address issues or go over procedures just sent weird emails leaving all of us wondering if we did something wrong. There are so many things that happened during my time there, not just to me but to other team members that I could likely write a novel. After trying the best way I knew how to handle the dysfunctional work environment, I went to HR to help me find ways to deal with bully and supervisor’s personalities but I also requested to change teams. HR said they had received a good amount of complaints about bully but wanted me to try speaking with my manager. Speaking to my manager was useless. She acknowledged that they have spoken to bully in the past about her behavior but she also basically blamed me for my coworker bullying me. She said, did you ever think that maybe some things you should already know and thats why she treats you that way? And I’m like so I deserve to be treated awful? A few weeks after that I found out I was pregnant and had some complications that took me out of work for a week. I don’t know why, but I felt compelled to tell my supervisor that I am pregnant but may lose the baby and this is why I am missing work. HR told me if I wanted to switch teams, I would need to speak with the partner/CEO of the firm and who my manager had a super close working relationship with. I was really scared about losing my job and rocking the boat and just said I’ll stay with my team in hopes that maybe after I returned from maternity leave I would be able to change teams. A few months later during annual reviews/promotions, I was bypassed a promotion by someone who I helped train and who had been with the company 9 whole months. I was expecting a promotion having been there for 2 1/2 years.
    My supervisor called me into her office and said reviews will be given at a different time but not only was I not getting a promotion, I wasn’t getting a raise either because of my work performance. I was being put on a 90 day performance improvement plan where after the 90 days they would decide if I was going to be terminated. I had never been reprimanded, never had issues with my work, never written up and was given a PIP for issues I had no idea why because they didn’t even give me a yearly review. HR then called me into a meeting and explained the circumstances and how this will work. I told them I refuse to sign this PIP because it would mean that I agree with their assessment, and I absolutely did not. HR told me I don’t need to sign up but if I am not willing to give 100% to my performance plan, perhaps I should look elsewhere for work where of course I turned to them and said, I am 5 months pregnant, you want me to look for another job? The things asked from me where not expected by my coworkers. I realized early on that they were trying to make my life difficult so that I could quit on my own but I needed the insurance, especially during my pregnancy/labor. I hired a lawyer with money I had to borrow from my parents just in case they messed with me. It was such an absolutely humiliating experience being pregnant and on this performance plan. I literally cried every day going to work and counted down the days until my maternity leave. HR at some point called me into their office with my supervisor who said that people come into her office and ask whats wrong with me. And I turned to her and said, if you cared so much, you would have asked me yourself instead of pretending in front of HR like you care about my well being. After the 90 days were up, my supervisor showed no indication of meeting me to discuss any aspect of it. I went to HR who said good news! You’re not being terminated but the the plan would be extended until well into my maternity leave. I got so much anxiety and stress that I left early and went to my obgyn where they felt it best to give me a stress test and monitor my blood pressure. It was such an unnecessary amount of stress they put me under while I was pregnant that I look back at my pregnancy with bitterness because of the work place. I know I could have handled the bully coworker with my supervisor differently but HR enabled this shit show to happen. They questioned why I needed a lawyer and that none of this was happening because I was pregnant.I also never received a review to go over why I needed a PIP in the first place, after continuously requesting one. While on maternity leave I remember feeling so much anxiety about going back. I ended up quitting a week before I was supposed to return back to work. After I quit I found out that within 5 months, 8 people quit on my team including two new employees who were there for less than a month mostly because of my supervisor. The high turnover rate was never addressed with my supervisor though she did get promoted for being a horrible manager so theres that.

    Have other people been treated badly at work during their pregnancies?

    1. Velvet Goldberg*

      I had a similar experience a few jobs back. But I wasn’t pregnant. I was given an awful performance review and put on PIP despite not receiving a single warning. I was told I needed to seek out training or education for issues they said I had. Yet, when I sent them workshops or classes to approve, they told me they needed to think about it and never got back to me. I had to run every single piece of communication I wrote through my manager. After a month, I had enough and wrote a response to the PIP where I outlined the fact that no one had ever given me warning, that my last review was rated satisfactory with no “needs improvements” that my performance review was actually 6 months late and my self-assessment was done on time (6 months prior), so they were fully aware of how unaware I was with their disapproval and yet still gave me no warning. I basically put them on alert that I knew they wanted to fire me for no real reason and used enough legalese to make it seem like I had counsel. Fortunately, it didn’t really need to go to much farther, as I got a job 2 months later. But it was 4 months of torment. I lost over 30lbs during that time.

      1. goldy*

        I can understand if a manager really believes in their employee and wants to see them do better but more often than not, I’ve read about people being put on PIPs for no reason and without warning for the intention of making the employee quit on their own. And I agree, it absolutely was torment!

  148. Graceful response?*

    I got an email yesterday confirming that I didn’t get a job. What’s the most gracious response to such an email? I’m not interested in feedback and I really liked the interviewer so I want to respond in a way that’s both gracious and friendly.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Thank you for letting me know.

      If anything else opens up that you think I would be a fit for, please let me know.

    2. Rainy*

      “Thank you for letting me know; I really appreciated the chance to meet you and to find out more about your organization.” or some such is probably what I’d say.

  149. Call Me By My Name*

    Curious about the commentariat’s thoughts on the following:

    We have a new Director for my division. He comes from a very corporate world (like finance). I’m a little familiar with this world and its penchant for shmoozing clients, grandstanding, being excessively fake and charming, blah blah blah. Well, this guy is all of those things. I work at a non-profit, social service organization, with lots of women. Not surprising in my industry. We all report into him.

    Almost everyone has had an instance with this guy that’s been deemed uncomfortable. One colleague was invited to join him for a drink prior to an event. (just the two of them) another colleague was about to go with him to a morning meeting when he stood up and started retucking his shirt into his pants. With me, he has a tendency to touch my back (the middle) to get my attention.

    These wouldn’t necessarily be a problem if he wasn’t so new. But, we have nothing to really base his behavior on. There are a host of other issues going on with him (work wise) and I think this forced congeniality/intimacy is either his way of protecting himself or trying to establish a support system. But, I can honestly say that literally no woman I work with trusts his motives or intentions.

    1. R2D2*

      I’d recommend documenting each unwanted touch. This will come in handy with Human Resources if his behavior escalates. Also, try speaking up next time! Alison has some excellent scripts which are both direct and amicable.

    2. Artemesia*

      My spidey sense are tingling. I can for example imagine a boss you had worked with for a long time, retucking his pants i.e. being that comfortable casual. But in a new person in a position of authority it hints at grooming (not his but your colleaguesas in the first step in escalation of unwanted intimacy). Touching in the middle of the back is on its way to the butt — people even who are touchy don’t usually do that. A hand on the arm, a pat on the shoulder maybe — a hand in the middle of your back, coupled with a guy who tucks his shirt in his pants in front of women. Yeah, pay attention and document. It may just be a creepy style, but keep track.

  150. Beaded Librarian*

    I have a question regarding labor contract language that recently came up at work. How would you interpret this provision as written?
    Employees shall be eligible for the holiday pay if they are on the active payroll on the
    date of the holiday, and if they work or are on an approved absence their last scheduled
    workday, before the first scheduled work day after the holiday.

    It seems rather ambiguous to me if it means that you can’t call in sick the day after a holiday, but I don’t know if I’m reading it incorrectly. A coworker recently had a health issue that made it so that she could not work the Monday after Thanksgiving which was the first day shows scheduled to work after the Thanksgiving break on Thursday and Friday.

    1. fposte*

      The way it’s written doesn’t indicate that the post-holiday workday has anything to do with the conditions at all; that phrase is just dangling there with a vague chronological indicator and nothing about office presence that day. If it was meant to say that the employee had to be back in the office or on an approved absence the day after the holiday as well, somebody botched that one, and I think according to this language the employee should be eligible for holiday pay if she was working on Wednesday.

      However, what I think doesn’t matter in the slightest to what action will be taken.

      1. Beaded Librarian*

        Just curious the employee in question was very upset when she was told that she probably wouldn’t be paid holiday pay. Our director is very good and likely looked into it to try and get her paid for it but if the contract language didn’t allow it I realize there is nothing the director can do. I haven’t had a chance to ask my coworker how it worked out yet.

        1. CAA*

          Assuming this is in the U.S, and she’s in a union, she should talk to her union rep for clarification.

    2. Murphy*

      I would think that a sick day (assuming you called in through normal procedure) would count as an approved absence.

      It sounds like you couldn’t quit and say that your last day was Christmas (or another holiday) just to get paid for that day.

      1. Sandsong*

        Some places I’ve worked before, you can have approved and unapproved absences. They actually have to be flagged manually as approved by a manager.

    3. Red Reader*

      I have worked in several places, and my husband’s current employer has a similar policy, where if you didn’t work your last scheduled shift before a holiday and your first scheduled shift after the holiday, you did not get holiday pay – the idea being to prevent people from extending holiday breaks by calling in, rather than making the arrangements for extra days off ahead of time. So at Thanksgiving, if he had arranged ahead of time to take Wednesday off, he got holiday pay for Thurs and Fri as long as he worked Tuesday (last scheduled shift before) and Monday (first scheduled shift after) – but if he had just called in on Wednesday and skipped a scheduled shift, he wouldn’t have gotten the holiday pay.

      1. fposte*

        And I think that’s what they *meant* for this to say–but it really doesn’t say that to my eyes. (It’s crappily written no matter what it meant.) But I’m not a lawyer or a judge, and even if I were it wouldn’t help in this situation.

    4. LCL*

      Murky contract language, gotta love it. Is this a situation where everybody gets 8 hours holiday pay, or only the people who are scheduled to work on the holiday? The way I interpret it is,
      to get paid holiday pay, you have to 1. be scheduled to work the day of the holiday 2. work your last scheduled workday before the holiday, or be on approved leave for your last scheduled work day before the holiday.

      What the part about ‘before the first scheduled work day after holiday’ means, I’m guessing, is that if you just started working there Dec 26, you won’t be paid for the holiday on Dec 25. If, as has been suggested, they are trying to avoid paying holiday pay for people who call out sick the day after, this language doesn’t do that.

      This is worth filing a grievance about to get the language clarified. That’s one of the purposes of a grievance. Talk to the union rep first.

      1. Beaded Librarian*

        Nope you don’t have to work on the holiday to get holiday pay. It’s a paid day off.

    5. Nacho*

      The way I read it, if I work mon-fri, and the holiday is Sunday, then I have to be either at work or on approved absence Friday (the last scheduled work day before the first scheduled work day after the holiday). If the holiday’s Thursday, I have to be at work Thursday, since that’s my scheduled work day before the first scheduled work day after the holiday.

      It’s pretty standerd where I work: No unapproved three day weekends with holiday pay.

  151. Anon4this*

    This is a petty rant but still…

    I work in an analyst role where it’s one of those things where the managing director gets credit for the research and reports done by the analysts, even though we both design and execute the projects. I know this is the nature of the industry so I’m not really complaining about that. What I’m complaining about is that analysts also are subject matter experts in areas that the managing directors don’t necessarily share. However, because we are junior in ranking (and also usually in age), our managing directors don’t take our input seriously and attempt to implement really bizarre projects. They also sometimes make edits that don’t make any sense, and submit negative project evaluations for us. It’s actually a thing now for analysts to make fun of managing directors during lunch time and complain about the latest weird thing they decided to impose on us.

    Most recently, my managing dr made some substantial edits to a project I completed after I had gone on vacation. The edits had substantial grammatical and logical errors. Our department chair reviewed it and in the email to my director, congratulated him on writing a good report, and told him to tell his analyst to improve her grammatical errors.

    I can’t even…

  152. Help*

    I have a question about my current job. I work in a very small office with one person who had been in the office a long time (think like 20 years +). Anyway the first year I started she approached me to see if I wanted to participate in a gift the office was buying for my boss, it didn’t seem at the time to be anything crazy so I agreed. She then came back to me and said she decided not to buy the gift. Of course she did anyway. The second year she did not even bother to ask me if I wanted to be involved and just got something. Now it will be my third holiday and now she says she bought something the previous years that I would not be allowed to buy and therefore did not include me but this year they are doing something else which I could participate in problem is the amount they want is a lot. I had complained in the past about not being included (because of course why can’t we get something I’m allowed to buy). But now I don’t know if I want to participate also I just found out everyone at my work is going out but I again was not included (because they probably don’t want to bother to accommodate me) looking for advise as to what others would do.

    1. fposte*

      I’d approach some of the “they” that aren’t “she” and say “I’d love to participate in the gift, but I can’t afford $50. Here’s what I can afford [hand over your $5 bill or whatever]; thanks for letting me participate to the best of my ability.”

      Do they ever invite you when they go out? Have you ever invited them, and how has that gone? With a small office, it could just unfortunately be a set social clique after hours that isn’t going to include you. How are they to you during office hours, aside from the boss’s gift stuff?

      1. Help*

        I never thought to invite out it just seems all the employees get together with some former employees but I’ve been excluded from this once a year event.

        1. fposte*

          Do you know the former employees? Because if you don’t, that could be a reason too.

          This could be a variety of things, but what I’d focus on is whether I got along well with them during the actual office hours; even if they could have been nicer about including you in a social event, as long as they’re okay to you at work I’d let the social part go and focus on the work, because it doesn’t get you anywhere to do anything else.

          1. Help*

            Well I don’t know if everything is ok because I have already caught this person lying to my boss more than once with no consequences. So we will see how that goes. I am trying to get other employment and I know this is a bad situation but right now I’m the sole income.

    2. Snark*

      Do not participate; buying gifts for the boss is generally a bad practice to get into. Gifts should flow downward, if they flow at all.

      1. fposte*

        That’s a possibility too, and ordinarily I’m with you on that; it’s just that this seems like a lockstep work group where not giving is going to rub salt in an existing wound, and in those cases sometimes it makes more sense not to stand on principle.

  153. FJ*

    Networking question… I have a contact that I’d like to keep in touch with. We originally met when his company was bidding to work on a project for my company. He occasionally e-mails me to update on their progress and see whether there are any opportunities for them to work with us. Realistically, there aren’t any opportunities for them to work with us in the near future. But, he’s a contact in my industry in my area, and I’d like to be able to “network” with him in case of a future job search or something like that. Should I tell him any of that backstory, or just keep it professional with “Thanks for the update on your progress, but my company isn’t interested at the moment. Let’s keep in touch again in a few months or next year.” And then, contact him when my job search starts and see how it goes?

  154. CAnonymous*

    Worried that I am having a grass-is-greener moment and just need some.. perspective? I think?

    I’ve been in this nonprofit job for 3 months. In interviews, the people I met were honest about the state of things and that it would be a challenge.. but I was (and sill am) game for it. As I’ve been getting to know people, I’ve been told in various ways at multiple levels (individual contributors all the way up to VPs) that this place is beyond repair and nothing I do is going to fix it. One person went so far as to say “you should try to get into another company so you have a success on your resume instead of this failure.” The person I am taking a few responsibilities from has been pretty rude and made the challenging job even harder. I am a dept of 1, but haven’t made connections with other people, folks near me go out to lunch together and don’t invite me, and people often just call me by my title instead of by my name, despite corrections. My relationship with my manager is fine; others have told me some not-so-great things that have transpired in the past, but I’m treated fairly which is all that ultimately matters. It’s not awful, but also not the most inspiring environment. It’s meh.

    A few weeks ago, a recruiter reached out for a similar role at a company that I follow and would love to work for. I thought.. why the heck not, and took the call, which turned into an interview, and then a second interview, and maybe a final interview (I should know today). The people are nice, the founders share a similar management ethos, the people seem genuinely happy and I’d be responsible for creating efficiency and adding organization, rather than ‘fixing’ something that’s broken. The environment at that office just felt more ‘me’ than my situation now. For what it’s worth, this place has some fixing that needs to be done and everyone I met acknowledged as such, so it’s not all sunshine and rainbows, but even in the way my interviewers talked about their ‘opportunities to improve’ it was less gloom and doom than I’m getting now.

    As of right now, my game plan is that if I don’t get an offer for this other place (totally plausible), I’m going to dig my heels in and work through whatever mess is in front of me just to say I tried. It’s not so miserable that I need to leave immediately, but what the heck happens if I get an offer?

    2. Nacho*

      It sounds like you’ve got a whole bunch of red flags at your current job. Even if none of them alone are enough to send you running, the sheer number of them should make you worried.

  155. OnwardsAndUpwards*

    I had the assessment centre this week for a big promotion at work (role play, presentation, interview) and found out that I was the successful applicant!!!! I’m feeling a mix of excitement, panic, pride and surprise. That said, as a grown woman, I’m not sure my initial reaction of “OMG I need to buy some lovely new stationery!!” was the most appropriate.

    1. Sandsong*

      But stationery! So fine! So pretty to look at, touch, write on. I can’t think of anything more appropriate.

  156. Anecdata*

    What do you do when your job title doesn’t match your level of responsibility – but it’s because your company doesn’t use titles the same way most do?

    I see a lot of people write in when they have more responsibility than their title reflects; and the advice is usually to put together a case for a new title, based on the amount of responsibility others with the desired title have /at the same company/. (Ie- ask to be director if you’re doing the sorts of things directors at your company do).

    I have a different problem – my title is completely in line with other titles at my organization, but I have much more responsibility than my title would imply at any other organization. My title is “Llama associate” when I am in charge of all aspects of the llama project – including managing ~5 direct reports, and a total reporting chain of ~30 people. Llama sales are 1/3 of our annual revenue. I’ve discreetly asked a few people in my field, and they’ve said they expect “associates” to have much less reponsibility – that it’s pretty much an entry-level title; and that what I’m doing would usually have a “head of department” type title. But all the “associates” at my org have similar levels of responsibility, so it would not make sense for me to ask for a “title” promotion above them.

    But I worry about presenting myself to external partners (they’ll think someone junior’s been foisted on them; when they needed to meet with the Llama Director!), and that it will hold me back when I eventually move on – that people will see the title on my resume, and think I’ve either exaggerated my accomplishments or that my work was really entry-level.

    I’ve taken to introducing myself in person as “…and I’m in charge of llamas at FarmAnimals Inc.” to avoid the question. Has anyone done something like that? Would you take that as dishonest, to avoid my real title? Are there any ways of getting around it on written things, like my business cards? Any idea on how to handle it while job searching / on linkedin?

    1. CAA*

      It’s definitely not dishonest to state your job responsibilities instead of your title when introducing yourself.

      On LinkedIn and your resume, I’d probably take the “Associate” out of the title but not inflate it to “Head” or “Senior” or anything like that, so it looks more like a job category than a particular title if that makes sense. Make sure the accomplishments you list below actually reflect the work you do though. Oh, and if you make a title change on your LinkedIn profile, turn off the thing that sends out notifications. Otherwise you’ll be fielding congratulations on a promotion you didn’t get.

      I also think you can have a brief conversation with your manager to “find out if the company would be open to doing a title realignment that would follow more industry standard classifications because you’ve been told that the current title scheme doesn’t accurately represent your responsibilities to your industry partners.”

    2. Murphy*

      A lot of titles are meaningless, so I don’t think it’s dishonest at all, as long as what you’re saying reflects what you actually do. My actual title is something nonspecific like Beverage Planning Manager, which could mean anything. Everyone around here works with beverages. I tend to introduce myself as Green Tea Coordinator, since that is more meaningful and is actually the bulk of what I do.

      My old boss actually advised me not to put my exact title on my business cards when I started, because that kind of thing could change, which did happen to me relatively early on. My cards just say Caffeinated Tea (having a hard time with this metaphor, haha) which is meaningful, but when my job duties expanded, I didn’t need to get all new cards.

      Job searching is harder to navigate though, since you do want to include your actual title. I’d probably just make sure that all your higher level experience is super obvious.

    3. Temperance*

      So I have the same problem. My actual title includes the word “Administrator”, which is higher-ranking at my org than my former title (“pro bono coordinator”). I use my old title in external communications, with the firm’s blessing.

      Can you talk to your bosses about it?

      1. Anecdata*

        I’ve mentioned it as a casual suggestion to our higher-ups – in the context of “look, we’re a small, start-up non-profit; folks are putting in tons of hours and effort; and we understand that salaries can’t reflect the for-profit world. But titles are free! Would we be open to re-doing the whole structure?” with basically no response.

        But I have noticed my manager does the same thing (/all/ of our titles are lower level than industry equivalents), in introducing both herself and me (“…and I run the livestock program; and Anec is in charge of all-things llamas”, so reflecting on that, I think they’re fine with me using that to fix the external partners problem. I probably don’t want to bring up the job-searching problem with them!

        1. Mints*

          I think you could bring up LinkedIn in the context of clients or networking. Maybe you can time it so it’s just before you attend a networking event (even if it’s on your own)

  157. Rock Bottom*

    /ranty

    Heard back from the job I interviewed for. It was a no. :\

    Every admin job is now requiring field-specific experience, even the most entry-level ones, it seems. Healthcare–must have clinical office experience. Academia–must have higher education experience. Must have construction experience, manufacturing, tech support, blah blah blahdee blah. You read the job description and it’s the same old admin shit, but no–they want someone who’s already worked in the industry. To answer the phone and file paperwork. That’s really tough and needs special training, mm hm yeah. Nobody’s responding to me at ALL. The decent jobs I applied to in KC did not answer me, and one of them is posted again. Really? Seriously? You couldn’t be arsed to even call me????? I am a three-hour drive away; it’s not like I applied from Europe.

    God I wish I could apply for a job in Europe. England is out, obviously. But I have no language skills, no teaching ability (ugh), and nothing of any high worth to offer. After reading a ton of job ads, it’s clear I simply do not have the skills to make a lateral move to technical writing/editing. The training I can get for free is not comprehensive enough, and I need a job NOW, not in six months when I’ve played with a goddamn HTML5 editor long enough to become halfway competent in it.

    A friend said, “Maybe it’s time to sell your house and leave.” Where would I go? I have no money left. I’m not going to get anything from this house, not nearly enough to live on in a better market while I job hunt. Zillow and Trulia estimate its value at around $52K–don’t make me laugh. I owe around $38K and the assessor put it at $36K, so I’m underwater on it. Yes, I’ve been paying my mortgage payments, but you watch—as soon as I catch up, they’ll reassess it. BAM, down it’ll go again because I can’t do any improvements, and it’s falling apart. And who’s going to give me a lease without a job? I can’t even fly somewhere for an interview. It costs money to move, and I HAVE NO MONEY. People keep suggesting I move to really shitty red states. Hahahahahaa f*cking no. You know what would happen? I would get stuck in a place I hate, while gleeful reds dismantle its social services and move its good jobs overseas. Which I can’t do anyway, because math. When I first went to California, I had friends who put me up. I do not have that now. I would have to have 1) a job; 2) moving-in money; 3) money to live on until my first paycheck at said job; 4) money to get my car registered and probably emission-compliant.

    I am at my wit’s end. I don’t know what to do. I can’t sell a book; I can’t find a job; I can’t live like this anymore. /endrant

    1. Sandsong*

      Sorry to hear it. That’s a really tough situation. I cannot stand people who continually tell others they should just move, things will be better there! They rarely are unless you somehow find the capital to do it. Moving is expensive. I would like to move to a larger place myself (me, husband, two kids, one bedroom apartment) but I simply don’t have the money for a deposit, first (or first and last) month’s rent, let alone gas to ferry my stuff across town, much less the thousands of dollars it would require to move out of state without even worrying about your house.

      Best of luck to you. I hope you find a way out of it all soon.

    4. AnonAndOn*

      I am so sorry to hear about your continuing struggles. It’s frustrating that no one is giving you a chance! You deserve a good job, you really do.

      1. Bibliovore*

        Thinking of you. I have had similar struggles. Please do not give up five minutes before the miracle happens. Thank you for sharing with this group.

    6. Anon4this*

      I went through a period of frustrating job search so I sympathize 100%. I agree just moving isn’t the magic bullet. In general, there are no magic bullets – you need to continue relentlessly applying while improving things here and there. I’m going to give some unsolicited advice: have you tried talking to various mentors – anyone who could give you some insight and advice for your job search? I talked loads with my college career counselor, former professors, and generally people who worked in my field. It was a nugget of advice I received from my counselor that I think significantly improved my interview performances. However, it took almost 2 years of doing this. It takes time, but getting some external advice can help you adjust your strategy. Also, try to load up your resume as much as possible with contract/volunteer work in the meanwhile. (Sorry if you already do all this and I sound patronizing – another annoying part of being a frustrated job seeker!)

  158. Tabby Baltimore*

    DATA MANAGERS – What duties are in your position description? I’m trying to write a PD to make the case to our staff director that we need this job in our unit. How would you answer any of the following questions: “How does having a data manager enable the growth of our organization?” “How would a Data Manager enable us to do what we can’t do today?” “How are we being hampered with meeting our organization goals because we don’t have someone in this role?” (I deal mostly with writers of text, not generators of numeric data, though, if that makes a difference.) ANY thoughts you have to offer will be MOST appreciated.

  159. Snark*

    Minor update for those who care about my cookbook venture: I’m looking at multiple possibilities now, and in the meantime, I’m just enjoying the process of writing recipes and introductions. That needs to happen whatever I turn this into, right? Now I just need to get over not having a compete, itemized, multiphase plan and timeline.

    And whatever it turns into, the tacos I made last night have to make it in, because braising chicken and spinach in chipotle-laced Mexican sour cream was a crowd-pleaser.

  160. Adlib*

    Funny story from this week. I walked into my office and dropped my laptop bag on the floor with my laptop in it. It must have made more noise than I thought. The branch manager from downstairs came up and asked if I was okay!

  161. Kat*

    I hope people are still reading because I have a question and would love views. My team has yearly targets for each team member. Last year we were asked to also come up with our own personal ‘stretch’ target so we’d be pushing ourselves (so say the target was 30, the stretch target could be 32). I found it no use to me. I will happily work towards the targets I am given, but they are already high and I don’t really have an interest in giving myself extra to work towards. I just got my targets for next year and they are SO high. I already think they are impossible, and that’s already going to be really tough, so giving myself a stretch target is only going to stress and demoralise me. It means even if I meet the difficult targets, I will still feel I’ve failed if I see a target I haven’t met.

    Basically, I’m wondering how to ask my manager if I can *not* have a stretch target. I don’t want it and don’t think it benefits me. We’ve all been told to give them, but I’d rather not. Not sure how to frame it, because I don’t want to refuse to do something either. My manager was promoted this year and used to be my colleague and close friend, so she’s new to the job and I don’t want to make it harder for her. At the same time, I need to be realistic about how I work and what I need. Any advice would be welcome.

    1. Colette*

      Can the stretch target be something else? I.e. so your target is 30; instead of your stretch target being 32, you make your stretch target doing a presentation to a group, or mentoring someone new, or something else that is not directly related to your regular work goals.

      1. Kat*

        That is a good idea, but I don’t think it’s an option. Our targets are in numbers and I think that’s the aim, to get us to produce more (but I mean, I work flat-out to do as much as I can anyway). I already do other things because I am a senior member of the team. But I might ask if there’s something else I can do, as you suggest.

    2. Yorick*

      It’s possible that you can discuss the stretch targets more globally. Explain that the new targets are a challenge already, and you are looking forward to working toward that challenge but you want to be realistic about what you can achieve.

      But maybe the organization won’t be ok with that and you’ll look like you’re not a team player. Will it matter if you just meet the target and not the stretch target? If not, just give them a low stretch target and forget about it.

      1. Kat*

        Yes, maybe. I am a high performer, and currently the only senior team member (aside from my manager), so I’m not too worried that they won’t see me as a team player. I don’t want to appear like I’m not up for challenging myself, but I think we’re all different in what works for us, and I just found it pointless. No one mentioned my stretch targets at my appraisals, but I still had to report back on them.

        Maybe I just set it and ignore it. I mean, might be easier. I guess I just wanted to challenge the assumption that it’s a great idea for everyone, because I don’t agree.

    3. Murphy*

      Can you have a larger conversation about goal setting and how appropriate those goals are? Is it like “last year we did 27, but if we work a bit harder or streamline some processes, we can probably hit 30 or maybe even 32!” Or “Last year, we worked our asses off and barely did 25, and now they want us to hit 30 or 32??” Because it seems like your target should be realistic, though maybe a bit of a push, but if it’s not, then that’s a larger issue with your company’s goal setting.

      1. Kat*

        It’s more that it’s in line with what our client needs. So the overall target is divided between the team based on experience, seniority, etc. I’m the senior one, so I get the highest, which is totally fine, ostensibly, but I feel I’m now at the upper limit of what I can reasonably achieve. Adding beyond that doesn’t seem possible.

      1. Kat*

        I think that is indeed what I’ll end up doing! I just feel that the company should be more flexible towards what works for people, rather than imposing ‘one size fits all’, which they are guilty of doing sometimes.

  162. Sandsong*

    I broke my kneecap (very minor but still broken) at work on Thanksgiving. It was unavoidable, there was no reason to expect the incident that occurred and thus no way to avoid it.

    I’m doctor-restricted for a week minimum (I have to see an orthopedist next week to assess) to sit-down work only. There is literally only one thing I can do at my work. It’s dull. My usual (very movement-oriented) position is not the typical hourly, so I’m on an actual hourly position while doing this delightful sit-down work. It is a part of my normal job, just an annoying add-on at the end of each shift which I’m reducing for others by doing it as my whole shift.

    There’s been no formal discussion – the work that I am doing currently I am essentially volunteering to do in the time that I was scheduled. I did it last night (after seeing the doctor on Wednesday) and I’ll be doing it again tonight and tomorrow assuming I don’t die of boredom in there.

    It’s just… dull. I don’t really need advice. I just wanted to vent. I’m really grateful they’re not leaving me completely without hours (and thus money) but it’s very open-ended right now and everything is just blah.

    Also, broken kneecaps suck. Even only slightly broken ones.

    1. Bibliovore*

      dull work. can you listen to podcasts? that is the only way I can force myself to do dull work.

      1. Sandsong*

        Yeah, they’re letting me listen to whatever I like on my phone, since it’s back where the public can’t hear me.

  163. Big City Woman*

    You haven’t been offered the new job yet – correct? I would caution you not to hang all your hopes on it just yet. Order the phone and order the jacket. Those are business expenses for your current employer to worry about and they can write them off, but they are needed because you still work there.

    It sounds to me like you are suffering pangs of feeling disloyal. You might want to apply to other jobs, too, to see what else is out there and disengage from thoughts that it’s either one or the other.

  164. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

    Our team is going to have to step up our game at work, now it’s December. There’s a desk decoration competition, and our team’s existing decorations consist of three pieces of tinsel and a battery powered snowman (he lights up before you start thinking slightly unsuitable for work thoughts!) that we don’t actually switch on because batteries are a rare commodity in the office (ones brought in from home *may* get “borrowed”) and they rarely last all day(!)
    I apologise if someone has already started this conversational thread (I can’t read through 800+ posts before having my little rant), so does anyone else have desk decorating sagas I can commiserate with?

    1. Beancounter Eric*

      A quick suggestion – if you/company don’t mind spending a few dollars/pounds/euros/name your local currency, get a set of rechargeable batteries and a charger for snowman….run during the day until batteries are flat, the recharge at night. Label EVERYTHING!!

      Personally, I’d build a battery eliminator…..depending on snowman’s power requirements, a wall wart, appropriate connectors, problem solved…..

      1. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

        I’m thinking of swapping him out for one run off a USB, since I’m going to have to get extra decorations in any case. Seeing what the rest of the office was like for Halloween (pretty cut-throat; if I wasn’t absolutely certain they were made of plastic, I could’ve sworn some of those bloodied severed limbs were the real result of competitors taking it too seriously!) I’m thinking of at least getting a little tree. Nothing that makes a noise though – we’re in the worst kind of open plan office and I can hear the tinny “we wish you a merry christmas” singing santa hat from the other end of the room!

    2. beanie beans*

      Years ago I made a handful paper snowflakes out of n0n-confidential forms that were in the recycle bin as a way of lamely “participating” and they turned out to be a huge hit. I reuse them every year.

  165. DIFFICULT PERSON*

    I’m new to the company, and there’s a person at my company who EVERYONE knows is a difficult person, and she seems to get away with it and I’m not sure why. On a personal level, I barely interact with her and I’ve been on the receiving end of her biting sarcasm. She’s smart but not exactly an irreplaceable genius, and she hasn’t even been with the company for that long. Yet even management seems to try to accommodate her (I’m not aware of anyone bringing this to her supervisor’s attention anyway). Obviously there’s a lot that I don’t know about why things are the way they are, but I’m curious to see if anyone has any ideas of why this jerk gets to have her way around here.

    1. anyone out there but me*

      We had an office jerk at one of my previous employers. A true demanding drama queen. She treated employees that she didn’t like horribly. She demanded special treatment constantly. She was still working there when I left and there were no signs she was going anywhere soon. She would occasionally get written up, but it never amounted to much. In my opinion, it boiled down to 2 things: (1) she was really REALLY great at her job and altho she treated fellow employees badly, she was always wonderful with customers, and (2) lazy leadership on the part of the business; the CEO and business owner just didn’t want to deal with the drama of firing her.

    2. Rainy*

      In what ways is she difficult? How long has she been with the company?

      Can you give us an example of her biting sarcasm?

    3. NoodleMara*

      One of the salesmen at work is like that. He’s an asshole, he causes so many issues to other people, doesn’t care about other work I might have to do including projects for the C-suite. But he’s good at selling so he gets a small talking to when he complains too much about his unreasonable demands not getting done and he’s better for a week. Then he’s an asshole for another six months. That’s just how it is. I’m sure those kinds of people are everywhere

  166. Daria Grace*

    Our team has always been really into helping each other out with confusing cases or difficult customers. My manager has decided to appoint a reference person we’re now meant to direct our questions to rather than getting help from other team members. The reference person is lovely to the manager and a few people she likes. To myself and a few others she doesn’t like she’s really difficult. She’s patronising, blunt and acts like she’s annoyed she has to interact with us. Sometimes she won’t even bother to make eye contact when I speak to her. I’m careful to use really good manners but it keeps happening. I’m starting to dread the inevitable things I need help with. Is there a way I can address this problem with my manager or do I have to accept that since she’s friends with the manager, things won’t change?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      That sucks! Could you say something about how going through one person will mean you’re collaborating and sharing knowledge less?

  167. Avid Dreamer*

    Hi all! I just recently found AAM and have fallen in love with the community and with Allison’s ability to get to the nitty-gritty of what is going on in a situation and give advice and possible action plans. With Allison expressing a plan to mainly do updates this December, I feel this is the best place to ask my question.

    I work as a front desk admin with another cohort in a mid-sized accounting firm with two offices across two states. While I am not new to the workforce, this is certainly the first company that I have worked for that is more in lines with the traditional corporate tone. The accounting firm I was first with was bought last year by my current firm, and myself and a co-worker came with our clients to this new firm. When I was hired by this new firm, it was with the expectation of me eventually transitioning from an administrative role to tax preparation. In the upcoming tax season, I will have this opportunity to begin working on tax returns in conjunction with my other administrative duties. This is really exciting for me and a big chance for me to grow in my career.

    My main difficulty is the fact that I have realized I had a different expectation of friendships within the office than what was actually occurring. I thought I was fostering actual relationships and it was brought to my attention that this was not the case, at least in my regard. While it was a staggering emotional blow for me, I have certainly learned a lot from the experience and have a plan for moving forward within the office and my career. Mainly to keep friendships outside of my work relationships.

    Here is where I need advice: I am a naturally friendly person whose default is to try to forge friendships with those who I see day to day. How can I work on having a thicker skin while maintaining a professional but still friendly relationship with people at work?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      With Allison expressing a plan to mainly do updates this December,

      I just want to clarify that — I’ll still be answering a minimum of five letters a day in December (the daily short-answer posts) and probably more. I don’t want anyone to feel it’s not worth writing in!

    2. anyone out there but me*

      What was brought to your attention, exactly? Are you sure you didn’t misunderstand?

      In my experience, co-workers who have similar personalities and interests outside of work tend to become friends. I have been in situations where I socialized outside the office with my co-workers. Then, I’ve had some that I truly liked, but did not really care to hang out with outside of work.

      I am really curious about what makes you believe that you are not making “real” friendships at work.

    3. fposte*

      Sorry about the connection mismatch there-that’s never a good feeling. Can you give a little more information about where the skin thickness comes in? Was this that they had a social event and you found out you weren’t invited, or you invited people to something social and they didn’t come, or something else entirely?

      When you’ve worked at other offices, were you close social friends with everybody there, or were there circles of intimacy with some really close co-workers but others perfectly enjoyable people at work that you didn’t really spend any time with otherwise? Most of us, I think, have those different intimacy rings and are pretty comfortable with that; if so, what you’ve got here is a pile of middle rings. If you can think of them that way, that might help control your expectations–you work just fine with middle rings, but you don’t expect them to come to your wedding or invite you to theirs, so it’s not hurtful when it doesn’t happen. It’s tough if you’re used to having some inner rings and you don’t have any there, so you don’t have the emotional anchoring you’re used to, but maybe at least this will help you frame the relationships with them positively despite your not having the intimacy at work that you’d like.

      1. Avid Dreamer*

        It is more of a front of the office/back of the office divide. Due to the fact that I have to answer phones and be the first face clients see when they come in (this has been especially difficult this week as my cohort is out on vacation), I don’t have the flexibility of others to leave early at the spur of the moment for a drink or outing. There have been multiple instances where the auditors and preparers in my age group have gone out en masse for drinks before the office has officially closed and not invited me. For a while, I thought it was just a divide between admin workers and staff, but another admin would often go out with them before she moved away.

        The big awakening for me was this week where a group was planning to leave early the following day and I definitely blew it out of proportion. When I went to apologize, the main person began to talk at me with how people take PTO and shift their schedules around to accommodate their outings. I had wanted to at least explain my point of view and was visibly frustrated. When another co-worker saw that, they asked me what I was thinking. I said that I felt cut off, the main guy very harshly said I wasn’t welcome anyway, that they wouldn’t want me.

        I was pretty distraught and while he did apologize and offered outings, just the two of us or with better prior planning, I was thankful. As we continued to discuss the event he asked if I knew why he got frustrated, and I said yes. I then turned the question around and he started to get upset again. I decided that the best thing to do would be to take myself out of the equation going forward and said that it would probably be best if I just didn’t ever go with them.

        I had a debrief with the co-worker who saw the blow up and it helped me to put a lot into perspective (about other office issues regarding my handling of stress, which I have been working on prior to this). She was the one who made the comment about having co-workers and then having other friends and rarely the two shall meet.

        1. fposte*

          Oh, that sounds really unpleasant; I’m sorry. It does sound like the issue has become soured on both sides, so I think you’re probably wise to go for an arms’ length approach for a while.

          1. H.C.*

            Agreed, and per your reply to my comment below – be mindful of others’ boundaries and aware of their disengagement (e.g. short replies, gazing beyond/around you, abruptly ending conversations) and respect that their decision to not want to form a friendship, without letting it turn into negativity in your professional relationship.

    4. H.C.*

      In most cases where I work, it’s possible to be friendly without being actual friends (and actually, that’s my default mode with most of my work colleagues.) I would engage in some small talk in the office, pitch in with some menial/tedious task they’re working on (time/resources allowing) and maybe go out to an occasional lunch or post-work happy hour, but generally avoid off-work socializing otherwise. And even in cases when I form “work friends” – the work part comes first (i.e. I wouldn’t do favors that would skirt or violate a company policy or ethics.)

      1. Avid Dreamer*

        My problem is that I am most likely, overly friendly. I am one of those open book type people who defaults to “make all the possible friends if possible!” I don’t know how to not form attachments.

        1. fposte*

          I am so very not like this so I apologize if my questions sound snarky–they’re definitely not meant to: does this mean you’re at least Facebook friends with the checkout people at your grocery store and your letter carrier? Are there any relatives you *don’t* know well or spend time with? How do you decide that you don’t have enough time for a connection with a given person?

          And are you speaking emotionally, logistically, or both? Do you feel abandoned or rejected when other people you encounter periodically don’t become friends? You’re making me think that it’s a really useful skill to be able to develop friendly colleagues as a category without turning them into social friends and that it may be something worth trying to learn. Do you think the obstacles to that would be emotional or something else?

          1. Avid Dreamer*

            I mean, I don’t try to become bff with any random person off the street, but if I see someone for 8 hours every workday for weeks and months at end, my tendency is to try to form a more than surface connection than you would create with the checkout person at the grocery store. (Though our office did become very concerned when our regular mailman was absent for two weeks without warning, so there is that…)

            Part of my stress is that the co-worker that came with me to this firm has fallen into this crowd and I now feel cut off from this previous connection.

            1. fposte*

              I wondered what was going on with the co-worker that came with you; that makes it harder. Right now you’re somebody used to feeling really connected in your workplace and you’re not that, and it’s reasonable for that to be hard. It sounds like you’re thinking about it very reflectively right now but that this was pretty upsetting to you (I’m guessing by “blew it out of proportion” you mean you lost your temper).

              I’m focusing on the “how to not be friends” thing because I think that’s in your control in a way that “how to make friends with them” at this point isn’t. I think there’s room for a more significant connection than with most grocery store clerks that still isn’t friends; your challenge, maybe with some outside help from a counselor, could be to identify what that looks and feels like to you that isn’t just a failed friendship. That may also give you a second chance to connect down the line in several months to a year when you’re moving into your new work, rhythms have changed, your expectations are more modest, and this has blown over.

              1. Avid Dreamer*

                I don’t think I need a counselor for this (though I have used one in the past with great success in other areas), but that is a good suggestion. I do have the ability to go back to talk therapy if needed, but I don’t think that is the case at the moment.

                What I’m really struggling with is how to gracefully shift to a more hands-off approach without raising eyebrows at said shift.

                1. fposte*

                  I chat tons to people at work I never socialize with; I just don’t chat about deeply intimate stuff. (Kids, pets, and media are always good go-tos.) I don’t think that’s likely to raise any eyebrows unless you were really baring your soul before.

                2. TL -*

                  @fposte: Yup, this! Chatting about the weather or weekend plans if they’re fun things (like, I’d share that I went for a walk in the botanical gardens but not that I’m visiting a relative in the hospital.) Hobbies are also good – I’ll talk about cameras, cultural differences since I’m overseas, pop culture, anything in my field of science.
                  @Avid Dreamer – it might actually improve your relationships to chat about less personal things. Be friendly without being intimate. There are some open book people in my school program and I like them, but one of them is just flat-out exhausting because she’s way more open about her life than I am comfortable with.

  168. C in the Hood*

    Just a vent — we just got word that our office will be converting to an “open office” early next year. :(

    1. Avid Dreamer*

      I am so sorry for you. I worked in an open office when I was in publishing and it was hell.

  169. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

    HELP! I have to place the catering order for my office holiday party, and I’ve never done it before. Doea anyone have a checklist of things to consider or ask for? I’m completely lost.

    1. TCO*

      Most caterers will guide you through the ordering process, but here are the details to be prepared with:

      – Time and place of delivery as well as start time of the actual event/meal. Share any special arrival instructions about parking, building access, etc.
      – Phone number that they can call day-of and reliably reach you
      – Number of guests
      – Any allergies or food restrictions. Do you want the dishes labeled with the name or ingredients? Does anyone in your office have serious food allergies that need to be planned for?
      – Don’t forget to order beverages!
      – What you need for plates, utensils, warming dishes, tablecloths, etc. Will everything be disposable or will some items need to be picked back up?
      – Will you be setting up the food or do you expect the caterer to do that? Will the setup be taking place in a room where there’s already a meeting/event going on and food setup could be disruptive?

      1. H.C.*

        As a former caterer, agreed with all the above – also note if there will be a kitchen(ette) for the caterer to use to store or prep foods.

        *Also, I think TCO and I are going off the assumption that is a casual holiday party. If it’s a more formal affair (e.g. involving catering staff serving plated food, tending to a buffet, or even tray-passed appetizers) – there’ll definitely more things to take into consideration.

      2. R2D2*

        This is a great list, TCO! I’m sure you’ll ace this, Charlie Bradbury’s Girlfriend. Feel free to ask the caterer plenty of questions, even if they seem like “stupid questions” to you. I’ve found that a humble, friendly attitude goes a long way in the ordering process! Also, if one of your coworkers handled the holiday party catering order last year, you could approach him/her for advice.

    2. Infinity Anon*

      Schedule food to arrive before the party rather than for the start time of the party. Try to have at least one vegetarian option even if you are unaware of any vegetarians where you work (preferably more than one though). Check your company policy on how much to tip the caterer/delivery person.

    3. Temperance*

      Find out if anyone in your office keeps kosher or eats halal. I have found that very often, there isn’t kosher food at events, which isn’t very welcoming to the observant folks in my office.

    4. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      Thank you, everyone! All of this is incredibly helpful! I’m slightly less panicked now.

  170. Mastic*

    I had interviewed for an Accounts position with a start up in mid October and during the interview was told that they would like to set up a second interview with the CEO of the company. After a couple of follow ups and cancelations (by them) and over a month later, I finally got a response letting me know that the accounts role was being put on freeze while they looked for a manager for that department. I was asked if I was interested in an assistant position for the manager I initially interviewed. I went to talk with the manager about the role and she explained that essentially is she incredibly busy and needs someone to help her with various projects (coordinating events, payroll, client management among other things). She indicated that this could lead to additional duties and responsibilities, perhaps evolving into a much bigger role within the company. The pay is less than I want however, there seems to be incentives that could make up for it (bonuses, close to home, insurance). I’m on the fence about this role because there aren’t any defined responsibilities nor was I given a job description. The manager seems like she is in constant crisis mode because she basically has no time to accomplish anything. I can appreciate that a startup comes with its own chaos but I’m worried that there will be a million different things thrown at me and without any defined responsibilities, I don’t want to burn out quickly. Would you accept a position without a job description?

    1. Temperance*

      No. You do not want to be the assistant to a scatterbrained person. You’ll get paid less than doing the accounts work, and frankly, it’s hard to get out of admin work.

    2. Artemesia*

      This job really sounds like trouble. ‘The job might evolve into something more important within the company’ almost certainly isn’t going to happen. And disorganized people may need help but they rarely know how to effectively structure their work to guide an assistant in doing important work for them. I’d keep looking. This sounds like a really frustrating job where you won’t be able to excel and feel confident and comfortable.

  171. Jillociraptor*

    Anyone work in a coworking space? I’m going to be moving to a WeWork in January and I’m trying to decide how hard I want to advocate for a dedicated office versus just a dedicated desk in an open space.

    I’ll be the only person from my team at this location, and will likely need to do some phone calls/video calls each day. The dedicated desk is in a space with a few phone booths where I could take these calls, and I think that would be fine, but I’d honestly prefer the private space so I can just pick up the phone without a bunch of advance planning or rearranging.

    If you’ve worked in a coworking space, how did you handle phone calls and video meetings? Any other advice for success in coworking?

    1. Nacho*

      I don’t know about video meetings, but I work in a call center where handling phone calls in an open space is basically all I do. As long as your phone is calibrated right so it only picks up sounds spoken right into it (might want to get a headset with a decent microphone), it shouldn’t be a problem.

    2. Beth Anne*

      I did a few years ago and loved it! Many of them have conference rooms you can go into for calls/meetings. Just depends on how it is set up. But the ones I’ve worked in most of the people are quiet and do their own thing.

    3. Jillociraptor*

      Thanks Nacho and Beth Anne! Super helpful! I had it in my mind that it would be odd to take phone calls from an open space, but it sounds like with some common sense it works out fine :)

  172. VaguelyAnon*

    This is a bit of an awkward one, and I’m wondering how you guys would handle it.

    At my work, we have one staff bathroom, and yesterday at work there were only two staff members: my teenage junior, and myself. I did a quick clean of the bathroom that morning before junior arrived; she went to the bathroom on her arrival. I don’t monitor bathroom visits, but I remember that because that’s how I realised she’d arrived. Anyway, I went to go to the bathroom on my lunch break and realised there was pretty distinctive blood all over the floor. Definitely not mine, and junior had mentioned it was that time of the month earlier.

    I ended up calling my father, who HAS management experience and currently works as a teacher with teenage girls, to ask (very quietly and in Spanish) how to handle it, because I knew I’d be mortified if I was in junior’s position. He suggested waiting til the shop was empty and mentioning it quietly to the junior, and that awkwardness was to be a little bit expected. So I did that; I waited til a few stray customers wandered out and discreetly told her she may want to check the bathroom. What I didn’t expect was junior to go “How do you know it’s mine?!” accusingly (“well… because it can’t be mine”) and ask if I meant for her to clean it, but I feel that’s more a reaction to the situation (she’s fairly shy). However, she apologised profusely, was quite embarrassed, and I told her it happens and to not worry about it – part and parcel of life.

    Did I handle this correctly? I didn’t dwell on it with her afterward (just chattily started talking about TV shows she likes, which is usual when we’re quiet), and I’m hoping I went about this the right way.

    1. VaguelyAnon*

      Also, the Spanish part was because I didn’t know if we had customers in the store, or if junior was up the back at that point, and I didn’t want to run then risk of blindsiding her while I asked for advice. We live in an area where second languages are as rare as hen’s teeth.

    2. fposte*

      It seems like you handled this beautifully, in a challenging moment that would have had a lot of people ducking the conversation. It’s not explicitly clear–I presume part of your message was “I cleaned it this time, but in the future you should make sure to do that”?

      1. VaguelyAnon*

        Yep. I hadn’t cleaned it when she saw it, because I saw the opportunity to mention it in between customers, but she didn’t know where the mop and bucket was (our Saturday staff usually clean, and she doesn’t do Saturdays). I showed her, but told her I’d clean it up this time, and she could handle the delivery at the counter so we we still had coverage.

        But thank you! I tried to remember how I’d felt with moments like this in high school, which brought back a lot of embarrassed memories.

    3. Matilda Jefferies*

      I think you did everything right. You brought it up discreetly, and quickly, and changed the subject once the point was made.

      Also, I expect this is the last time you’ll have to have the conversation with her. Guaranteed she’ll be careful to clean up after herself from now on. Because from her point of view, the only thing more embarrassing than having this conversation, will be to have it *twice!*

  173. Laura in NJ*

    I’m officially giving up on my job search. There isn’t any point to this anymore; no matter what I do, I can’t get an interview (I applied for one job last week and they never responded). So I’m just going to accept my fate as someone who clearly wasn’t meant to be employed.

    1. AnonAndOn*

      I am sorry to hear that.

      I am in a rough situation myself. Have been unemployed for a good chunk of this year (save for a few bones of temp jobs and odd jobs thrown my way), my unemployment ran out and I’m ineligible to get it restarted at the moment, I’m one month (going on two) behind on my rent and I may be evicted with nowhere to go, and I too wonder if I’m ever meant to work a regular full-time job again and get out of this rut.

      I tell my story because hard as it is, I’m not giving up. I still look, I still apply. I try to motivate myself to work on non-job search goals and dreams too. It may feel like it at the moment but it’s not the end of the world.

      Don’t give up and keep searching.

    2. nep*

      Sorry you’re facing this.
      Have you got the means to live for some time?
      I hear your frustration. There are moments I’ve said similar words to myself (sometimes out loud). How many jobs have you applied for? I’m sure there are a lot of people who landed a job only after a good number of attempts; you are meant to be employed just as much as they are, I’m sure.
      Take care of you. Please keep us posted.

    4. Colette*

      Not getting a response from one job means nothing – especially not after a week. That’s very, very normal and it certainly doesn’t mean you will never get a job.

      Do you have the ability to see a counsellor to help you get past the negative thinking?

  174. Frustrated Wife*

    I posted a few months ago about my husband that was struggling looking for work…and had a lot of anxiety about failing at any job he got. I am happy to report that he is finally working a part time job. It’s not a lot of hours or money but it’s something and it is slowly boosting his confidence and self esteem. I actually got him a job in another department where I work and I think it’s helpful that I am here for him.

    1. LNLN*

      That’s nice to hear! Hope everything works out. Years ago, my part time job turned into a full time job. Hope your husband finds his niche.

  175. GriefBacon*

    I can’t decide what to do next. I just finished an 18 month (non-profit evaluation) temporary position that I LOVED, but there wasn’t funding to keep me on. I’ve done a little bit of everything in the past — HR/recruiting, retail management, music book/event planning, editing/publishing, inventory management. I love process development, administrative support, project coordination, and general operations support. I figured development or donor relations associate positions would be a good fit, with my data, customer service, and event planning experience…but even with assistance from my former development colleagues (VP reaching out to her connections at organizations I’ve applied to, constant looking over my resume and cover letters, etc)…I can’t even get a phone interview.

    I really wanted to stay in non-profits or education, but despite my city (that I moved to from out of state for my last position) having an extremely healthy non-profit sector, I can’t get any bites, even at places I have connections. We also have a vibrant tech/startup scene here, and I think there would be good industry/company fits there, but haven’t seen any specific positions that stand out.

    Any suggestions of directions/roles to pursue? I feel like I’m missing something super obvious.

    1. Super B*

      Have you thought of selling yourself as an Executive Assistant? It’s dynamic, can pay really well (especially if you make it into tech or finance), and you’ll be using a lot of the stuff you mention – like “event planning, editing/publishing, process development, administrative support, project coordination, and general operations support”. Look out for those jobs – you’ll be surprised there are plenty of them available, as there’s still a stigma about being an ‘admin’ and most people want to be the talent, not the person supporting the talent, hence why good career EAs are rare to find

  176. Nacho*

    I really like my job right now. The pay’s not bad, but more importantly, there’s basically 0 stress. There’s plenty of downtime during the day where I’m allowed to surf the web or play on my phone, and even when there is work it’s not difficult.

    Eventually I want to be promoted to a higher level, but only if it comes with a SIGNIFICANT raise to compensate for the extra work I’d be required to do. Can I apply for a promotion, then turn them down if the pay increase isn’t high enough and just keep my current job? Or is that going to hurt my professional standing?

    1. misspiggy*

      It wouldn’t hurt your standing if you had an initial conversation about a promotion and how much budget would be available for a salary increase. That should be information that’s available upfront to help you decide whether to apply. (At least, in any reasonable employer…)

      If you applied for a promotion without asking about pay and then turned it down on the basis of salary, that would hurt your standing.

  177. Jucifer*

    What do you think is the most common trait that prevents people from becoming great employees?

    For me, it’s the lack of a sense of scale. People who don’t understand when something truly isn’t a big deal tend to blow everything else out of proportion. For example, at my company, we sell two sizes of chocolate teapots: size Cocoa for One and size Bring Your Squad. In the last quarter, we sold 40,000 teapots. Of those, some people ordered the wrong size. Employee Clothilde promptly raised a huge stink that we needed to issue releases and re-write all our written material with an additional paragraph explaining that Squad size serves more than one, and All By My Onesie size won’t serve a crowd. This meant that we’d have to re-do everything we’d done in the last year. Then we found out the actual number of people who ordered the wrong size: 8. Out of 40,000. That tiny, tiny percentage was enough to send her into a tizzy and demand we redo everything.

    Her work is good, but She just blows everything out of proportion. People resent working with her because she always says she’s too busy to take a lunch or leave on time, despite actually having a very reasonable amount to do, and thinks everything is a much bigger deal than it is.

    So I’m curious to see what other people think stops people from being great employees. Not what makes them bad, (she’s by no means a bad employee) just what separates the “fine” from the great.”

    1. LCL*

      This one totally varies by job. Where I am, which involves dangerous work in real time, may be different from office work. Office work is equally important! Nobody gets paid if office work isn’t done!

      But, for us, chronic lateness is a big deal, and in office environments it doesn’t seem to matter very much. In fact, this work kind of rewards the type of catastrophizing employee which is causing you all of the heartache.

      The other big thing is talking to other people in the work group, because we are a 24/7 group which means people are here at different times. The people that spend shift change in the lunchroom instead of talking tech with the rest of the group will never be great employees, though they may be very smart and have good OTJ performance.

      1. AshK434*

        Yes, we know things vary by job, field, industry. You’re not telling most people anything new. Why is “this varies by job” brought up basically in response to every question? Can we just take this for granted from now on?

    2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      Trying to anticipate and solve every single possible problem ever. I work in IT, and spent my early years doing support. I’ve worked with plenty of people who cannot get projects or even simple tasks off the ground because they strive to address every single possible problem in their solution. I worked with a guy who was terrible about this. We were developing a knowledge base for our users, and he wanted to go back through 10 years worth of tickets – individually, ticket by ticket – and write articles for every single issue. This is millions of tickets. We had stats on those tickets, and of course most of them were things like logging in, changing passwords, etc – standard web application support stuff. We could easily write 20-30 articles covering most of the issues a person might have. But he was determined to go through EVERY SINGLE TICKET even though we told him it was unnecessary.

      He could never finish his work or get traction on projects because of this, so my boss stopped assigning projects to him, and he was relegated to simple, easy to complete tasks because he just couldn’t get past it. We tried to coach him but he never saw it as an issue.

      1. H.C.*

        Same here for me & PR/marketing, esp in crisis planning/management aspects of it. Yes, it’s important to have a plan and backup strategies, but it’s also very much a “roll with the punches” thing when the disaster strikes – because it’ll never go as neatly as they do on paper or in drills.

    3. nonegiven*

      1 out of 5,000, or 0.02% and it was customer error.

      When I order the wrong size of something, I usually have to pay the shipping both ways to do an exchange, plus the difference, if any, in price.

      What is the cost to the company of the 8 wrong orders and the cost of changing “all the things?”

  178. Aislinn*

    An acquaintance of mine worked on Thanksgiving and received time and a half as holiday pay. He then ended up working overtime that week, but did not receive time and a half as overtime in his paycheck. Since he gets time and a half for holiday pay and holiday pay is not legally required, his check looks right math-wise if he worked overtime but did not receive holiday pay. Is this legal?

    1. LCL*

      He may have received it, but it may be hidden in the pay codes. Made up numbers with 10 hour shifts used for ease of example. When I first started doing this I was constantly being told I was shorting people on their holiday pay, because they would believe the whole time and a half was added on top of their regular pay.
      Employee is scheduled for paid 40 hours a week.
      Employee gets paid 1.5 for hours for one scheduled day. So for that day, he is getting paid 10 hours of straight time, and 10 hours at half time. 10 hours of additional half time equals 5 more hours of straight time pay.
      Employee works 10 more hours of overtime just because.

    2. zora*

      If he works at a reasonable company, he could ask payroll to explain it to him. I had a situation recently where I wasn’t sure if my overtime pay looked right on my paystub, and payroll was happy to show me how they did the math, and they were right. They weren’t mad at me or offended that I asked.

      If people at his workplace are generally reasonable and pleasant to each other, he should consider sending an email to payroll and asking if they can explain how they calculated his overtime.

  179. Senua*

    My coworker is dead weight, my boss doesn’t care, and my mental health is suffering. What to do? Quitting right now isn’t an option.

    1. Senua*

      Let me rephrase: It’s not that my boss doesn’t care but he hasn’t solved the issue. He prefers to dance around an issue in hopes that the person will see between the lines and change their behavior.

    2. anon24*

      Oof. Been there. Ultimately I had to quit, but since you say that isn’t an option try to distance yourself emotionally and accept that you can’t change some things, only your attitude to them. Me with my boss:
      Boss: why are you so far behind?
      Me (super calmly): well I’m doing the best I can but Fergus has no interest in working today so I’m just doing what I can do myself. I refuse to stress out over this.
      Boss: well he’s making big mistakes. You need to stop that.
      Me: I can’t babysit his work without compromising my work. I can’t be so focused on fixing his mistakes that I make stupid mistakes. I don’t know what to do.

      And then I would continue on with my day, forcing my boss to either deal with it, get me additional resources, or accept that the work wasn’t getting done. I used to get so angry at my coworker but then I just detached from the situation and rolled with it, making sure I was giving 100% and that my work was as close to perfect as possible. Worry about what you have control over, and let go of the rest. It’s not easy.

      1. Windchime*

        I agree. It’s so hard to do but I’m a whole lot happier since I adopted the “keep my eyes on my own paper” stance. In the past, I’ve gotten way too involved in worrying about what others are or aren’t doing; now, I just worry about my own work and let the chips fall where they may. I’m fortunate that I have a decent boss so there isn’t a lot of slacking going on.

        Another thing to remember is that there is a slacker in every office; at least, that’s been my experience. So try to just do the best job you can do, let your coworker slack off all he/she wants and when the boss wants to know why things aren’t done, just be honest.

  180. Krysten*

    Called into work sick today, I’m in sales…. my boss told me if I didn’t come in I was taking a huge pay cut. Is this legal?

      1. Bri*

        Hey I recommend my friend come here and ask for advice and what she means is because she called out today they are lowering her monthly salary by $1200.

        1. KR*

          Well unless she gets paid 1200 dollars a day, that’s illegal then. She has to be paid for all time worked, regardless of whether she called in sick for one day .

    2. Stellaaaaa*

      This varies by state, but most states have similar regulations. Where I live, if your employer wants to lower your pay, you have to be notified two weeks in advance. If you agree to it, fine. But if you don’t agree to it, those two weeks are basically your notice period and your last paycheck has to reflect your current (not lowered) pay. Your pay cannot be lowered on a whim as punishment.

    3. TL -*

      They can’t change your rate for hours worked, so your paycheck for everything before today should be at your former rate. (No retroactive adjustments.) They can change your rate going forward but you should check with state laws to determine what kind of notice period, if any, exists.
      If you’re exempt, they have to pay you for the day off.

      Also, to quote Alison, your boss sucks.

    4. Kerr*

      On the off-chance you live in a state or city with sick time regulations, there are probably regulations included that forbid retaliation for using said sick time.

  181. Beth Anne*

    I had an interview earlier in the week but idk if I want the job if I get it. We’ll see. It’s so hard to decide if a change is the right move.

  182. BittersweetCharity*

    HR wants me to call boss Sunday to resign

    I am bound for a new job in two weeks!

    The only problem is that my boss doesn’t know. After all references were checked and the offer letter reviewed and signed, I drafted a resignation letter and planned to give notice today. My supervisor took the day for dental surgery (and didn’t inform anyone on her team), so I had to submit my resignation to HR.

    Oddly enough, HR knew I was job hunting because of her connections to the larger community. She was disappointed I wasn’t staying longer but understood my frustration with compensation and the current state of the organization. She actually gave me a hug at the end of our talk!

    Her primary suggestion to me was to officially resign to my department leader before Monday. This means, I will have to call Sunday afternoon and explain the situation. HR advised me against waiting until the start of the next work week because of how chaotic the day was and the likelihood that I wouldn’t have time to talk with her one on one.

    Now, my question for the wise commenters of Ask a Manager is how best to approach my boss Sunday? Should I text her a request to speak briefly? Should I create a transition plan before Sunday so that the discussion will be more planned and organized?

    Please share your thoughts!

    1. LCL*

      You’ve got the new job offer in hand, it’s definite? Then ignore HR, they are wrong. Don’t be the person who calls the employee that had to miss work because of surgery, at home. Phone or text or email first thing Monday and tell her you need to talk to her that day.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      Unless your boss is a super huge control freak, and if you have the time to do this before Monday, I think having at least a rudimentary transition plan sketched out would be a really great thing to do.

    3. Theodoric of York*

      Agree with everyone. Send email (copying appropriate people) and put your letter on your boss’s desk Monday morning.
      A transition plan is good.

  183. AnonAndOn*

    I saw a mention above of a “Frankenjob,” where jobs of different skill sets are combined as a way for the organizations to save money. During one job search a few months ago I saw a job that was looking for someone to be a receptionist AND act as security. At a past job I was at those were two separate jobs and I cannot for the life of me imagine that as a combined job – someone covering the phones one minute then patrolling the hallways the next. No.

    Have there been any other odd “Frankenjobs” anyone’s seen listed?

    1. Ruffingit*

      Not odd really, but my current job expects us to perform our job duties for which a license is required, plus financial paperwork which normally would be handled by the business department and also to do case management type work. Basically any department that is short of people has its work given to us. I’m tired of that.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        I’m sorry to hear about that. Between this and what you posted below that office sounds like a headache waiting to happen.

    2. Amber Rose*

      Every job here is a frankenjob. They aren’t listed like that, but they end that way. I’m currently the safety manager, parts sales, RMA department, document control and marketing assistant, if that tells you anything.

    3. Bacon Pancakes*

      Made me think of the scene in True Lies where they are getting scanned to enter the office and the “receptionist” has agun under her desk!

      1. AnonAndOn*

        It has been years since I’ve seen that movie and I don’t remember that. I need to rewatch it sometime. It’s a fun movie.

    4. MissDisplaced*

      My old job is listed as a Frankenjob. Do do it you will have to do all of the following:
      Marketing: Events management, and Brochure creation/updates
      Digital Marketing: Website creation, Email Marketing, Lead Generation/Salesforce management and creation-management of all websites and landing pages
      Video Editing/Photography
      Writing and content creation, including public relations
      Social Media
      HR/Internal Communication
      Accounts Payable for 3 teams
      Organizing meetings for the executive team

      Fun Stuff! Purple Unicorns should apply.

    5. KR*

      My last job was a franken job. The two jobs were related but not really. The department want just expected to handle both of them and I oversaw the not related part and assisted in the main function of the department. I don’t miss working for small town government sometimes because it got wierd sometimes.

    6. Anon4this*

      I like this word and will be using it all the time from now on. I have lost count of the number of research jobs that get combined with admin/program coordinator type jobs. Those are two completely different jobs, and it’s ideal that separate people specialize in each. But I think this is more common than odd. I have a friend who used to work for an underfunded nonprofit where she did what was essentially a customer service job + program planning. She worked overtime regularly and was very stressed and burned out all the time.

      1. Anon4this*

        Also, I once interviewed for a job that was part researcher, conference planner (with an expectation to manage the audio visual equipment), accounts manager, and fundraiser.

        Typically the jobs are listed with the word “research” in the title (which is how I get them into my filter), but then they tack on all the other random responsibilities in the job description.

    7. Stellaaaaa*

      I can see that making sense if the receptionist is in charge of buzzing people in and checking ID, but that requires a pretty specific office setup.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        That makes sense to me because the receptionist is usually the first point of contact when people come to the office, but patrolling around and maintaining office security is not.

          1. AnonAndOn*

            The job I saw wanted more security than that, it wanted someone to do front desk duty and handle people beyond the scope of buzzing people in and out. It wanted someone who could act as a security guard and handle problem people (like escorting them out if it got problematic). I definitely see that as two separate jobs.

            The job I used to work at had a separate receptionist and security officer. While the receptionist could make note of suspicious behavior she did not have the authority to escort people out. We had a security officer with her own office, who carried a walkie-talkie, who patrolled our office at various points during the day, and who’d be out for a certain period each year to get recertified to be armed. Definitely two different skill sets and I cannot imagine someone who isn’t certified or qualified to be a guard doing the job of security.

            We’ll have to agree to disagree on how we view this.

    8. Chaordic One*

      I’ve seen a couple of bizarre combination ads at the small airport near where I used to live.

      One was for someone to work at the customer service/reservation counter at a car rental agency where one of the duties was to hose off the returned automobiles in addition to working the counter. (I gather this is fairly standard for people working in the car rental business, but it seems weird to have to try to be professionally dressed and to then have to do dirty work like washing cars.)

      The other bizarre combination was at the ticket counter/check-in desk for an airline where, in addition to working at the counter, one of the duties was (when necessary due to inclement weather) to go out on a ladder/step thing and spray deicer on the airplane. It just seems weird to me. I guess they’re too cheap to hire an extra person to deice the plane.

      1. JaneB*

        I’m an academic – it’s definitely a frankenjob! Fundraising, community outreach, curriculum design and teaching, recruitment of new students and pastoral care of those enrolled as well as advising them on academics and career planning, doing and publishing high quality research and training and managing a research team, and substantial administrative duties (e.g. quality roles producing data extracts and action plans to meet metrics).

        Fortunately I get bored easily so the variety is quite good, but it can get insane – and the only parts of the job I’ve been trained to do are doing the research and the basics of classroom teaching – even the computer systems are mostly taught by telling us it’s easy and we can work it out…

    9. Mimmy*

      One of the instructors at where I work has what I’d consider a franken-job because she instructs in one area and does assessments in a completely different area. Think teapots vs. vacuums. lol. This started a couple months ago when one of the vacuum instructors was reassigned. I don’t think it was to save money – this is a state-run agency, so when the other instructor was reassigned, that unit was restructured. I don’t know if they’ll eventually hire a new instructor – I hope so because this instructor is tearing her hair out trying to keep up with documentation in both units.

      By the way, the security at our facility acts as the front desk receptionist too – she makes sure people signs in and out, monitors activities in and around the building but also make pages people to the front.

  184. Software grump 42*

    I’ve had a cushy job at Huge Software Company for a month now, and I’m sick, and I can get away with taking the day off. And nobody even expects me to work from home during my PTO. This is amazing! Just got to not get fired…

  185. Ruffingit*

    Just found out today that my company will be charging us for the company holiday party. We’re being asked to pay $15 each to support the catered food and are told that if we don’t go, it will “look bad.” I’m over this company, seriously. Thankfully I’ll be working in another department that day so can’t attend, but it’s just crappy to basically be told we have to attend and pay for it.

    2. Second Lunch*

      I’ll take your deal any day. Mine charges us $45. It’s at a restaurant in the downtown core of a major city, but it’s still ridiculous.

    4. copy run start*

      What?! If they can’t afford to pay for catered food, just make it a potluck/appetizers only!

    5. Colette*

      I’ve actually never worked somewhere where we didn’t have to pay for the holiday party (maybe not the full cost, but some portion).

      Having organized events on the past, I can tell you that people are far more likely to show up if they’ve paid for it, so that could be part of the issue.

      1. Ruffingit*

        It’s actually just the opposite my company. Being asked to pay to attend the party means that a lot of people won’t go. We don’t make enough money here to pay for a holiday party that actually not many of us want to attend to begin with because were treated so badly by management that none of us want to hang out with them voluntarily. The only thing that would make it worth doing is to be able to get free food.

  186. Amber Rose*

    GUYS.
    We started decorating the tree immediately after lunch. It took THREE HOURS. Three hours, three to five people, and one enormous ladder because it’s a 10 foot tall tree and you have to build it branch by branch and I’m only 5’6″. The rest of the office was assembling gift baskets and party favors. I don’t think anyone did any work-work all afternoon.

    This company treats Christmas way serious. Or at least, I would say that if we hadn’t spent the whole time cracking jokes about balls.

    My job annoys me so much, but this time of year is pretty fun. I’m exhausted though.

    1. R2D2*

      Decorating the office tree and reception area took hours at my former job! I began to dread it every year, but I had to admit it looked beautiful when we were finished. :)

  187. Super B*

    It’s the first year I’m eligible for a raise in my company and just found out they only give everyone a standard 2% raise, with rare exceptions for extraordinary performances. I am in California/ Bay Area. In my previous jobs I always got anything between 3% and 5% so I’m finding the 2%a little outrageously low. Is this a common raise? It’s a private company and they give 4 to 5% bonuses every year as well,

    1. miyeritari*

      I’d say it’s low, but if that’s what they give to everyone, that’s what they give to everyone.

    2. Elliot*

      I also work in the Bay Area and 2% is the standard merit increase for an employee who “meets expectations” on his/her annual performance review.

    3. copy run start*

      My guess is that in bad years, bonuses are reduced/not given but you might still get that 2% raise. A bonus is generally less permanent/not guaranteed compared to a raise, even if the company regularly gives it out.

      2% is “keeping up with inflation” in my book. Personally I would like to see 3% or more, assuming I did a good job, company was doing well, etc. etc.

  188. miyeritari*

    I’m currently in user operations at a tech company. I like this job well enough, but I don’t know if it’s my future. (I’m in my late 20s-early 30s.) A couple of my friends suggested that I have the personality and capability to be a good project manager. What sort of things can I do at work to move myself in that direction, or kind of skills or projects should I suggest/pick up to figure if that’s a good place for me?

  189. Lentils*

    Hey all, I’m wondering how to handle a delicate social situation at work. Basically, one of my best friends, C, is also my coworker, and she’s an abuse survivor with diagnosed PTSD. One of the things that can be a trigger is people yelling at her (or speaking forcefully to her, in some cases, even if they wouldn’t perceive themselves as “yelling”). She really dislikes one of our supervisors, S, because S communicates very abruptly and even when she thinks she’s joking around she can come across as really curt and harsh. In the past, C has admitted to me that when S has snapped at her for “bothering” her with work-related issues, C has trouble sleeping at night and sometimes anxiety attacks during the day too.

    Anyway, I’m writing this comment about half an hour after another of these incidents happened. I didn’t witness what happened beforehand, but from what I know, C, S, and a few other coworkers were talking about how to handle an upcoming absence from one of the project managers, which will be pretty stressful for everyone. C suggested bringing in snacks and other nice things to comfort themselves, at which point S said something like “No, just let [project manager] go!” in a pretty harshly sarcastic tone, which could come across as pretty harsh for the previously jokey situation. C got really quiet suddenly and just kept repeating “okay” in a way I recognize from other situations where she’s trying to avoid a panic attack. Myself and another mutual friend/coworker noticed C’s reaction and shared a sympathetic look between the three of us after it happened, but no one else commented on it. C is doing okay now, and has sent an email to S about it (I didn’t ask about the content but I presume it was related to S’s tone).

    What I’m wondering is: what, if anything, would be appropriate for me, as a bystander, to do if something like this comes up again. In the past, S hasn’t been joking when she snaps at C and other coworkers – and we’ve all noticed it. S is a supervisor, and C and I are subordinate to her. Our former boss knew about some of this, specifically that many of us have an issue with S’s abruptness (and C had told boss about her own reactions to it), but she left two weeks ago and I don’t know how much our new boss knows about this situation. Any advice would be really appreciated, thank you.

    1. Stellaaaaa*

      Take away C’s reaction for a moment. It is, of course normal and expected that people will raise their voices and adopt a serious tone of voice when the situation warrants it. And yes, this is what makes it a trigger: it is a normal and sometimes necessary/helpful (in an emergency) thing that brings up an uncommon reaction in someone else.

      So I’m not sure you can make it about the trigger. I think you should make it more about basic manners, since it sounds like it might be more about the situation than the volume of S’s voice

    2. Student*

      This falls in the territory of “things you have to be able to cope with to work with other humans.”

      I have sympathy for your co-worker and her PTSD. However, Manager S was merely rude here. Manager S has a style and tone of voice that your co-worker is struggling to cope with based on her disability. It’s not reasonable to expect Manager S to change enough to make your co-worker with PTSD comfortable here, because this is more Manager S’s entire personality than it is a simple thing or action that Manager S can alter easily. Your PTSD co-worker is never going to get a working world where no one is ever cross near her, or short with her, or rude to/near her.

      Instead, this is one of those issues where the disabled person has to some up with a reasonable coping mechanism so they can interact with other people. Or go on disability, if she can’t do that. This is more akin to a person with OCD who wants people around her to fundamentally change to soothe her OCD symptoms, like requiring everyone she works with to wear certain colors or keep their desks organized to her specifications (AAM has a few old letters like this). It’s generally not going to happen – instead, the OCD person has to find a way to cope. It’d be different if Manager S were, say, always slamming doors, and that set off your colleague’s PTSD – because that’s a pretty reasonable thing to ask somebody to change about themselves. Asking Manager S to never “snap at” her, when Manager S is generally curt, is extremely vague and wide-ranging by comparison; it would probably require Manager S to basically change her entire communication style and personality. Even if Manager S improbably did that, as a manager, Manager S may need to give your colleague unpleasant feedback, or correct something abruptly or curtly.

      It’s kind of you to want to help your co-worker, but it’s not your issue to cope with this for her. That’s enabling more than it is compassionate. You can be supportive when you chat with her; you can listen to her vent. You can’t fix or manager her illness, nor stand between her and a manager. You don’t have standing to chat with Manager S about this, either.

  190. Second Lunch*

    Two months ago, I went through an interview process, then the hiring manager told me that the job would be on hold until the end of 2018. I was disappointed because in her email to tell me the role was being eliminated, she said that my personality and skills matched what they were looking for. A few weeks ago, I saw a posting within the same department and reached out casually to the same hiring manager to see if she’d be comfortable passing my name to the person hiring for the new role. No response, which is fine because it was a long shot.

    Today, I saw that the original job that was supposed to be on hold until 2018 was re-posted. Should I reach out to the hiring manager again? Or do you think the “rejection letter” was meant to be a nice way of turning me down without any intention of moving forward?

    1. Ruffingit*

      I’d say leave it alone. They already know you’re interested and you reached out once already. They know how to get in touch with you.

    3. soupmonger*

      I’d get back in touch, mentioning you’d been interviewed for the role they are now advertising. You have nothing to lose and maybe a lot to gain. Don’t assume they still have your details – re-send your cv.

  191. Ann O.*

    Question for late readers: I have an exit interview for the job I’m leaving this Monday. I’ve never done an exit interview before? How candid is it expected to be? As I’ve written before, I have a lot of concerns about my (soon-to-be-former) manager’s ability to manage and her behavior is primarily responsible for me leaving. I’ve been very candid with the manager of the team I was trying to get changed to, and I tried to be blunt-but-still-very-diplomatic with my manager’s manager (MM). With my MM, I was actually trying to protect my manager and portray issues as more systemic due to reporting line confusion, although my MM asked some follow-up questions that I wasn’t prepared for and so I did end up relating some of the specific project risks that my manager caused.

    Anyway, what I want is to be really, really candid, but what I want more is to take the approach that is most likely to be effective at having my permanent replacement be on my original team. (FWIW, I will not be using my current manager as a reference. My previous manager had a much better grasp of my role and my contributions and proactively offered to serve as a future reference.)

    1. miyeritari*

      I was once candid in a job interview about a job i really disliked for a huge number of reasons, and basically when I left some of my friends who worked there said “Yeah, after you left, we got a diplomatic email explaining that they were changing the exit process,” and there were no more exit interviews.

      I mean, it was a toxic job and a toxic company, so I don’t know if your case will be the same, but that’s my one experience.

  192. TheRover*

    When you want to apply to a role on a company’s website, and there’s no field to include a cover letter (CV only), but you *need* to include a cover letter for this particular application, what do you do?

    1) Forfeit the cover letter anyway
    2) place the cover letter in the same file as the CV
    3) apply via the HR representative (assuming you have her/his email) explaining you’d like to include a cover letter on your application
    4) apply via the hiring manager directly (assuming you have her/his email) including the cover letter
    5) other?

    1. AnonAndOn*

      I’d do the second option. If it asks for a cover letter and a web application is the only way to apply, if there’s no separate space for a cover letter then I’d attach the cover letter and resume/CV as one file.

  193. AnonAndOn*

    I’d do the second option. If it asks for a cover letter and a web application is the only way to apply, if there’s no separate space for a cover letter then I’d attach the cover letter and resume/CV as one file.

  194. Ms. Mad Scientist*

    Sorry I’m late to the party, but this just came up late in the afternoon:

    I work in a small academic research lab. My coworker is entering a mock startup challenge where you do market analysis, write business plans, etc. with our PI’s permission, he’s going to use a project from the lab. He’s invited me and our other coworker to join the team, but everything would have to be done outside of work, maybe 5-10 hours per week for up to six months. There are substantial cash prizes for the top three teams, but also a lot of entries.

    I’m on the fence if I want to do this. It’s a big time commitment, especially with a small child at home. Potentially I could add it to my resume if we made at least the semifinals.

    I like my current job, but i like to keep building skills for what comes next. I don’t think working at a startup would be my first choice, but there are a lot in my area. Im not sure what I’d like to do after this job.

    Any recommendations?

    1. Karley*

      I think you really have to weigh your chances of winning, or making the semi-finals, against sacrificing so much of your free time. If there’s just a slim chance you’ll place or win, and you can’t use it on your resume unless you do, it might be best to wait for another opportunity. But if you would enjoy it and it would be great on your resume no matter what happens with the contest, maybe it’s more worthwhile. Just something else to consider: these types of projects almost always take way more hours to complete than estimated, even with a great team.

    2. TL -*

      It depends on what field you’re in, but those competitions can be a huge advantage if you want to go into industry or consulting, even if you don’t want to be in a start-up. I worked in a ChemE lab and we had people who went and they both did very well and both of them considered it helpful for future plans (tenure-track PI and industry.)

      You should talk to your PI about what she thinks your team’s chances are; hopefully she is clear about whether this is a valuable experience for the sake of it or whether it’s a strong resume builder due to quality of project and prestige of competition.

      1. Ms. Mad Scientist*

        Thanks. I think eventually I’d like to move into industry. I’ve had some exposure to Regulatory Affairs in my current job and I thought that had potential.

        I’m still mulling things over.

  195. WorkerBee*

    I’ve been job hunting and I applied for a middle management level position. I received an email requesting to set up an interview. Before I replied, I followed the link to review the job posting again and realized it included a salary range that is about half of what I make now – and totally ridiculous for the position. It was basically entry level pay. Because it could very easily have been some kind of mix-up, I wrote a very polite email apologizing that I must have overlooked the salary range when I applied, and stating that I wanted to be up-front about my inability to accept that amount. I said if by chance there was an error in the posting, I’d still like to discuss the position. It was so awkward and I really struggled over the wording of the email, but I felt the need to reply since it seemed so likely that there was an error in the posting. The job otherwise would be a great fit. Did I handle this correctly? So far they haven’t replied, after about 24 hours.

    1. Kathenus*

      It sounds to me like you handled it well. You acknowledged you had missed it when you applied, were clear you wouldn’t accept a position with that salary range, but opened up the possibility of an error just in case. As to a response, 24 hours is nothing in the world of hiring. And as much as they should, so many employers are not good about responding at times so I wouldn’t be surprised either if you didn’t get a response. Since you really only need one if there is a mistake in the posted range, if you don’t hear back it’s just confirmation that it’s not a position you’d take anyway.

  196. Quaggaquagga*

    Just a vent about the rough couple of weeks I’ve been having. At the end of the summer, my manager left. Her responsibilities were then redistributed to me and two other senior colleagues. We were all also given very large projects to manage. It’s been an absolutely exhausting few months and I think we’re just about at the end of our ropes. In a way it’s been exciting because I’ve learned that I’m capable of so much more than I ever thought I could be. However I think my colleagues and I are badly burned out at this point. We’ve been leaning on each other a lot, for help and commiseration. This also means that we’ve been up in each other’s business constantly (with permission) and I think we’re a bit sick of each other’s issues. One of my colleagues is stressed to the point where he’s no longer able to see problems with any sort of objectivity and everything is an unsolvable disaster. The other colleague is moody and her behaviour is starting to border on unprofessional. Good news is that we’re getting a new manager in a week — but boy do I not envy her stepping into this mess!

    1. Kathenus*

      I completely understand everything you described. Since the stress/burnout is the likely cause of the issues that you described, maybe ask your colleagues if they’d like to get together for dinner/drinks/some fun activity as a “yay, we survived and rocked it out recently”, with a ground rule that there’s no work talk. That might help reset the relationships in a positive way to start off with a clean slate with your new manager.

      1. Kathenus*

        Sorry, realize my last sentence was a bit confusing. Reset the relationships with each other before the new manager starts.

  197. The Other Hand*

    Some random thoughts prompted by these threads, for your consideration: Yes, it’s often dysfunctional for workplaces to allow toddlers, dogs, spouses etc. so much free access to the workplace. But the reason employers do this is because it allows them to pay employees less. If they institute bans, they’ll have to pay more to get employees of the same caliber, because one of the reasons people work there is because even though the pay is low, they get to bring their families and dogs and so on to work with them … It used to be that to marry, you could really only meet people in three places: Work, bars, or church. Now that online matchmaking is the new normal, it’s appropriate to tighten the controls on office romances, and I’m glad that seems to be happening … I salute Allison for this site. It’s an extraordinary achievement and I hope she feels great about it. To have the idea and then exert all the effort it takes to succeed is an accomplishment that very few could pull off. Bravo!

  198. Very new (daycare) teacher.*

    Hi all. I rarely comment here, but read the column and comments daily. I’m hoping for some scripts for an uncomfortable position I find myself in.

    I just started working at *daycare center* two weeks ago. I replaced someone that was moved to another class and is mad about it. She is great with the kids, mostly; I don’t like her style, but the kids are fond of her. However, today I witnessed her behaving in an unsafe way with young children. My first thought was to tell my manager, but my spouse thinks I should speak with my co-worker first. I’d love to hear other thoughts and perspectives on this and what should I say, exactly? Thanks!

    1. Very new (daycare) teacher.*

      I’d like to clarify that it was not abuse and it was of a very short duration, but was clearly unsafe and against policy and common sense. I was unable to address it in the moment.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      You need to follow the policy that’s in place at your workplace.

      Generally I would say you tell your manager and whatever the US equivalent is of a safeguarding lead. You don’t go playing detective.

      The rule with child safety is that you report facts. You don’t decide if the facts matter or guess what they mean. You report the facts.

    3. probably right*

      If the issue did not involve the welfare of children, then talking to your co-worker first might be the way to go; HOWEVER, since you JUST STARTED at a DAYCARE, the right move is to talk to the manager now. Like this: “I just started here so I’m not sure what to say, but on Friday I watched Ramona do and that sure did not look right to me. I felt that I had to let you know about it.”

    4. Student*

      I think you should clarify exactly what we’re talking about here. There’s a really wide range of things that people consider “acceptable” and “unacceptable” to do with kids, and a lot of regional/cultural variance in it.

      I’d like to know how the kids were endangered before I weigh in. If you say they were unsupervised in a play area for 2 minutes, then I’d lean towards “that’s cultural, low risk, and may have a good explanation” and encourage you to talk to her before going over her head. If you say she was juggling knives for them, then I’d say, “that’s bad judgement, dangerous, and clearly unnecessary, so go over her head”. There’s a huge grey area in between those.

      1. Colette*

        I disagree. It was a child safety issue, and it was against policy. That’s enough to raise it to the boss.

        Yes, it’s possible that it was the kind of thing that would be ok with your own kids or in a different situation, but it was in this situation. If the coworker decides some rules aren’t important, that puts the business (as well as the children) at the mercy of the coworker’s judgement.

      2. Very new (daycare) teacher.*

        She was swinging 2 year olds in a circle while holding their hands. Many parents do actually play like this, however, we are not these children’s parents. It is inherently unsafe and thank you all for your feedback. I plan to report it to my manager Monday morning.

  199. probably right*

    “I just started here so I’m not sure what to say, but on Friday I watched Ramona do (insert behavior you witnessed) and that sure did not look right to me. I felt that I had to let you know about it.”

  200. Hrovitnir*

    Man. I’m always way too late to the party here, but I’m going to post!

    Got a temp lab assistant job a few weeks back and it’s freaking great. I went through good answers for all the painful interview questions, but it ended up being the most casual interview ever. (I finished my biomed Honours* last year and have a potential PhD project next year dependent on the grant, so really wanted some temp work but there’s bugger all science work of any description going around here.)

    It is hitting exactly the spot I was hoping for, in that I thrive on feeling competent and have been kind of missing work after a bit of time in academia (I want to do a research PhD but probably will move out of academia for reasons that include but are not limited to how bloody long it takes to achieve any kind of job security – if you manage it at all). Plus having a liveable amount of money for the first time in years is amazing.

    It’s very basic work but I am totally down (mass DNA extraction and qPCR mostly), plus it’s working for a government department which is a nice happy medium for me between academia and industry.

    Our contract is only until xmas, but there will almost certainly be work for some of us next year, and our manager has strongly implied I am likely to be a top contender. Despite reasonable confidence in being a highly generally-competent employee (a trait that is not as common as it sounds on the face of it), it’s really great to get external validation.

    It’s also been very social, which is both nice and bizarre for me. I was socialising approximately 2-3 times a year for the last 4-5. The department we’re in often has a beer on Fridays, and the group of temps has been doing something together most weekends. It’s fun but my body’s not used to it!

    *Honours = one academic year, same papers as Masters but only that one year for a research project and thesis. I have got my name on a paper from that though, and will also get in on the paper when it’s published from the work I was involved in on my (6 month) exchange in Sweden, so that’s pretty awesome.

    Apologies for the novel! Many thanks if you made it through this. :P

  201. NerdyCanuck*

    Bit of a followup from last week, but… Does anyone have a good script for saying “Hey, what’s going on with that offer letter?”

    1. Trythis*

      If you’ve been extended a verbal offer and the letter hasn’t appeared yet, by all means reach out! This happened to me and it cost me several days of freaking out because the HR guy had the wrong email address. I emailed him, found out about the error, and had the letter within the hour. I would just start with some pleasantries and then state the facts: “Dear so and so, I hope you are well. I was excited to receive a verbal offer from Mr. Smith last Tuesday, and he said I should receive an offer letter within 2 days. I haven’t received the letter, so I’m just checking in. Do you need any further information from me?”

  202. Alex*

    Hi, I have a question to ask. I had an interview scheduled for last Wednesday, but it had to be rescheduled. Problem is, I work at nights and I was unaware of it until I was in the lobby, waiting to be interviewed. I was rather embarrassed about the whole thing, and as I got into the car, I started to cry, thinking I lost this opportunity.

    I was able to reschedule to have the interview this Wednesday. How am I going to play this off and explain what happened? I really want this job, and need some advice.

    1. Kathenus*

      Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see anything that you need to explain. If it’s that you showed up for an interview that was rescheduled, that doesn’t seem like an issue to me. But if you would feel better if you addressed it you could send a confirmation email about the new interview date and acknowledge the situation. Something like “I’m sorry that I didn’t see the notification rescheduling this week’s interview, I work nights and didn’t see the email/voicemail/whatever before leaving for the interview. I’m very excited to meet with you this Wednesday to discuss XX position, and look forward to meeting you.” Good luck!

  203. Database Geek*

    I’m late to this post – still job searching. I got rejected from one place I interviewed with and still have not heard back from another one. I should probably email to follow up this weekend. On the flip side I had 2 new in person interviews and 2 phone screens so I have four new places to wait and see about… I’d really like a job for Christmas….

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