open thread – December 22-23, 2017

by Alison Green on December 22, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

You may also like:
{ 1,148 comments }

{ 1,148 comments… read them below }

  1. Snarkus Aurelius*

    I have a problem that I’m convinced doesn’t have a solution, but I thought I’d try.

    My boss (government head) sucks in many ways, but here’s his biggest flaw: he has a clique of five people he listens to and no one else. If knowledge of something doesn’t penetrate those five people, boss sincerely believes that something doesn’t exist.

    I’m now in trouble for doing something I’ve been doing for two years. Something I told my boss I did on a regular basis. Repeatedly.

    I don’t feel bad or guilty. Just frustrated and unheard.

    It’s not only that. I’ve had conversations with my boss to prepare or inform him of things. He’ll nod and “uh huh” in all the right places and then five minutes later have no clue what’s going on. I don’t know what else to do aside from tattooing vital information on his head.

    This isn’t the first time this has happened. At my last job, my then-boss forgot I went on my honeymoon for two weeks. I was the recipient of many an angry email. What’s the point in having an office calendar if my boss doesn’t bother to check it to see if I’m in or out???

    I’m convinced that it’s a combination of being a woman in a male-dominated field and being utterly forgettable.

        1. LBG*

          Some people do better on paper rather than being told verbally (me, if I read it, I remember it). My boss doesn’t always read/respond to emails, so I need to speak to him directly rather than email.

          1. Bex*

            I try to always do both. Have the verbal conversation first, then send a follow up email saying something like, “Subject: Bex on Vacation June 1-7 Message: As we discussed at our check in, I’ll be taking vacation June 1-7. Also copying [relevant team members] so that we can plan for coverage while I’m out”

      2. Artemesia*

        irrational jerkwads don’t take kindly to being shown emails proving them wrong. It can be helpful if things escalate but then only if there is an HR that controls firing.

        1. user42141*

          This. I’m always amazed how many people recommend emails in this sort of situation.

          I’m a master of the email CYA, but it doesn’t matter since when a conflict arises the boss decides according to whom he likes more anyway than according to what really happened.

          2. LKW*

            Or to resend demonstrating that just because a person doesn’t read their emails, doesn’t mean they weren’t sent. And resent. And sent again.

        2. Observer*

          In government agencies, HR has more control – or at least has more power to act as a brake – than in private industry.

        3. Engineer Girl*

          I always reply with “I’m confused? We taled about this on (date). Is there something I missed?” And I include the email documenting our original spoken conversation.
          By playing the confused card we can pretend this was a miscommunication and save face. It goes a long way for jerks.

      3. Higher Ed Database Dork*

        Yeah that was my only solution with this type of problem boss. I also would keep a Word doc and document and timestamp decisions he made or stuff we talked about, so I could go, “On 10/31/15 you made this decision, is that still the direction you want to go?” or stuff like that. It helped somewhat. Unfortunately the best solution was to get a new job.

        I hear ya about being a woman and forgettable. I work in IT and this keeps happening to me by various staff and vendors I work with. My boss is awesome – he sticks up for me and we have no problems – but people keep forgetting to copy me on emails, or they’ll call my phone looking for my boss (I’m a developer, not his assistant), etc etc. I’m also the only woman on my team and some people have asked my coworkers questions about my projects. Coworkers are also awesome and will redirect people, but it get tiring.

        1. user42141*

          The behavior you describe (not looking at you, etc.) was something I also experienced when working in a field that had to do with IT. It actually motivated me to switch into a more business-y field.

          I’m currently in business and guess what, when I meet with the senior guys I’m still the only woman in the room. (But yes, the environment is a bit better in this respect).

      4. Snarkus Aurelius*

        Mostly email. Some face to face. Occasional voicemail because I don’t think he checks it.

        Once he sent me a nasty note complaining I didn’t tell him something, and he was literally replying to the email where I told him the thing he was supposed to know. (One of three emails I sent that morning!)

        Hence why I don’t feel bad.

        When confronted with evidence, my boss (like my last boss) ignore that and continue complaining of ignorance. “I never got that!” “You should have reminded me! Oh you did? I don’t recall that. You need to tell me these things!”

        And on and on.

        1. Jynna*

          I used to work with a client who couldn’t remember anything. We’d tell him he agreed to something two weeks ago, and he’d said he didn’t. We’d then forward the email where he said, “This sounds great! Approved!” and he’s respond by saying he didn’t write that email.

          He drove more than one employee crazy, hence why I “used” to work with him.

          1. Ruffingit*

            Sounds like you worked for Trump. LOL! Seriously though, that is some crazy making stuff, I can’t blame you for getting the heck out of dodge.

    2. Mel C*

      You could try writing everything down, when you spoke and what you spoke about – or sending follow-up emails: “per our conversation,” or “here’s a recap of what we talked about.” Many, many years ago I worked with a boss that had similar issues, and I was convinced that he was experiencing some form of dementia (either early Alzheimer’s or something along those lines. Hey! It happens!). I’m sure it’s frustrating, but I wouldn’t assume your boss will read the calendar (or assume that he’ll remember anything at all, since he’s not). At least, later, you can say “remember the email I sent on DATE?” And produce said email if he forgets. Then it’s on him. Hope it gets better!

      1. Samata*

        My “I forgot”-er is a co-worker, also female, so less frustrating than a boss, but I have found the “per our conversation” emails rather helpful follow up to our meetings. At the very least I can re-forward them when necessary.

        Note: I usually keep the email I sent in a CYA folder with her “Thank you” email and usually forward the whole trail because she can no longer pull the “I must have missed that one”.

    3. Foreign Octopus*

      Is there a chance you can go to your boss’s boss with your concerns or would that put you in an awkward position?

      I suppose the best solution to your secondary problem about information retention could be to put it all down in an email just so that you’ve got the paper trail as well. For example:

      “Further to our previous/earlier conversation, here’s the relevant information…”

      As for the clique, I have no idea how to handle that.

    5. Dust Bunny*

      How receptive is he in general, and have you told him you feel unheard? Can you point out to him directly that you’re having trouble getting through to him, and ask if there is another method of communication he prefers (I had a boss who was very verbal and never wrote anything down, nor would she absorb anything emailed to her. My coworker and I, however, were visual and couldn’t retain things Boss said to us, so we’d have to email them to ourselves so we wouldn’t forget)?

      I’d ask if you work for my dad, but he’s retired. He’s THE WORST listener, and he never thinks to check the calendar Mom keeps on the fridge. Some people just don’t take responsibility for retaining information (I would bet money his wife does this for him at home).

    6. MissGirl*

      Build a relationship with the one of the five you think best of. Pick their brain about how to handle things and use them for important communication. You can’t force your boss to change; you have to work with the constraints you have.

    7. Purplesaurus*

      he has a clique of five people he listens to and no one else

      My current boss does this to a degree. For her it’s an ageism thing (she is older and seems to listen only to her older employees). I have had to run things through that group of people before. It’s ridiculous, but it works.

    8. Future Analyst*

      Your boss sucks and isn’t going to change. My usual inclination would have been to recommend CYA with emails, etc., but it looks like you’ve already attempted all the avenues. Thus, you have enough good data to indicate that if you continue working with him, this will continue happening. Sorry!

    9. Jadelyn*

      CYA with email for sure, but tbh if it’s a recurring problem I would make a habit of printing out those emails (or memos, whatever way you prefer to document things) and literally leave them on the boss’s desk or keyboard or chair so he can’t avoid seeing it. He can still ignore it, but you’ve done your due diligence at that point. Beyond that, there may not be much else you can do – this kind of falls under “your boss sucks and isn’t going to change”.

    10. Anono-me*

      I have found it helpful to regularly give my boss and assistant boss bullet point type updates about once a week and then follow up with detailed emails (I am still working on the spout crisis in Toledo with Kris, the handle problems in Boise with Pat, and now Dana in Springfield is having trouble with missing lids. I’ve emailed or cced you both the latest on each situation. )

      When I am out of the office, in addition to getting the leave approved by my boss; I do out of office messages on my phone and email, put a post it on my door and office mail box saying that I am gone for x days and to see my backup for urgent issues.

    11. Jules the Third*

      Your boss sucks and isn’t going to change, but how much does it really affect you? Are there things that you can change that you control?
      – If he’s just complaining, train *yourself* to limit response. ‘Email, yesterday; do you need something now?’ Don’t waste your time doing the emotional work he’s requesting from you.
      – If he’s holding up your workflow with non-response, try bulleted list, printed, handed to him, and ask him for initial to show he’s read it. Weekly at least, more often if needed. Make him do an action (not just words) that shows he has reviewed your proposal / meeting purpose / information.
      – If he’s punishing you for it – bad reviews or writeups (‘in trouble’), take CYA emails to his boss and HR
      – Find a therapist and complain to them. Be heard somewhere, it will help you feel more confident and less frustrated in the moment.

      Yeah, women in male-dominated fields do have this happen often. The patriarchy isn’t crumbling anytime soon. It means more work for us, more crap to deal with. I’m sorry and wish I had a better answer.

      Of course, there’s always the nuclear option – print that list in VERY large font, with very small, one-syllable words, like a children’s book. But only do that if you’re ready to move to another position.

      1. lahallita*

        I adore the bulleted list, to be initialed idea.

        Also, if Grandboss is more agreeable/present/competent, how do you feel a weekly-update email to (crappy) boss and Grandboss go?

  2. Fortitude Jones*

    Question for all you Microsoft Word gurus out there: how do you ensure your headers and page numbers in your footers don’t repeat in a two-sided Word doc? I was able to successfully format a one-sided Word doc the other day by unlinking from the previous section and adding the appropriate page/section breaks, but the same steps I used before don’t appear to be working this time (and it’s possible I’m forgetting one in my pre-holiday brain shutdown).

    1. lisalee*

      The easiest would be to go to the Header options and check “different odd/even pages.” On my Word 2010 it appears on the left side of the toolbar.

      1. Mockingjay*

        This. Also, you can create custom Header and Footer styles if you need facing pages – Header Odd, Header Even.

      2. Fortitude Jones*

        I did this, but it still messed up once I got to my sixth section :\

        What in the world am I doing wrong?! LOL

        1. Specialk9*

          Did you check that you had a section break rather than page break? And look at the “link to previous” check box. It’s often one of those.

    2. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Go to the Page Layout tab, then to Page Setup. In the Page Setup box, the third tab is Layout and there’s a section labeled Headers and footers with 2 check boxes. That should take care of it.

  3. Sunshine on a cloudy day*

    Any advice for staying motivated in a job where you’re bored out of your mind and just completely over begging for more work (ideally substantive work)?

    I’ve been underemployed my entire career – fell in to admin work (not knocking it, I just don’t enjoy it/don’t find it stimulating/would prefer to be doing something more anlytically focused) because it was the only type of work that I could find that pays the bills and that I can do reasonably well. Climbed my way up to the point that I’m in a very cushy, well paid role – if you want to be a career admin this is the type of role and place you want to be.

    But I’m bored out of my mind and I feel like my brain is rotting away in my head. I’ve asked repeatedly for more work (casually “I have the capability to do more, please let me know if there is anything else I can help with”, directly “Is there anything else I can be doing – I have a lot of downtime” and even with specific tasks “Would it be ok if do X? I was responsible for X at my last job and there’s curently a 6 month backlog”), but I’m just blown off. Sometimes I just start doing things (like X in the example above), but then I get in trouble for “stepping on people’s toes” when my boss realizes that I’m doing x (sidenote: the rest of the team is incredibly greatful and appreciative when I do these things and confirms that I am doing them correctly).

    I’m at the point where I can’t keep asking for work – it’s demoralizing. I feel like a dog begging for scraps.

    So how do I stay motivated in this environment? I know the simple answer is – just do these basic, boring things perfectly – but that’s not how my brain works! The more bored I am, the more prone to error I am. Then I end up making stupid mistakes and I get so frustrated and angry and terrified that I’m about to be fired (bad job ptsd) that I make more mistakes. I do my best work when I’m engaged in the work and have a steady workload (or even just a little too much)

    My job history is not great – right on the precipice of being a job hopper, but I think if I can stay in this role for a full two years (been here 1 yr, 3 months) I’ll be ok. My job history is as follows: 1.5 yrs (promotion after 3 mos, laid off b/c company was sold), 1 yr (long term temp role), 1 yr (different industry, left b/c role was changing), 2 yrs (promotion after 1 yr, left bc dept I was promoted into was a toxic hellhole), current company. No gaps at all.

    Does anyone have any advice? I’ve been seeking treatment for ADHD – I’ve suspected that might be part of my motivation issue for awhile (I’ve had this situation play out in previous roles), but medication does not seem to be helping.

    1. Anony*

      Have you only been asking your boss for more work to do? Maybe telling other people in the department that you have free time and are there any tasks they could use some help with might work. Then you can’t be accused of stepping on toes because they asked you to do the task.

      1. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

        When I was an exec assistant this is what I did. It is how I got into marketing. I didn’t have enough to do, so I started asking other people if they needed help. Ended up working the most with marketing and discovered a passion for it.

        1. Specialk9*

          Me too. I was so bored as a receptionist temp I was teaching myself Morse code. I kept telling people with a big smile that I had plenty of time and would love to help them, and really it would help me too because I can learn some of what you do. I got to do A/P support, copying and collating (I was so green I didn’t know there was a button to get the machine to do that), some low level spreadsheets, etc. It gave me a head start in my next office job.

          Seconding Coursera. Many universities have free courses you can take online – is it Harvard that has hundreds?

          1. TL -*

            Harvard, MIT, and Yale all have a number of courses online but I think MIT offers the most. (They are less practicality focused, so if you want something super relevant and skills-based, how good they are depends on your specific field. But if you want something as brain food, they have lots of great options.)

      2. Jules the Third*

        Sounds like she asked others, started doing X, but when boss found out they said ‘stop it, you’re stepping on other people’s toes’.

        Is there any work you can do that looks like you’re busy but doesn’t enter other people’s domains? IE, do you have any interest in writing a book or articles? Would the company pay for any classes or even just authorize you to take a free class during work time? Project management, Advanced Excel, something that you think might be interesting but is tangentially connected to your assigned work?

    2. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Ugh. I’m the same way–I hate having nothing to do. It sounds like they’re not interested in having you do more, so I’d focus on personal goals like learning new software or a new language or something else that still looks like work (so maybe you could read an ebook on your computer, but I wouldn’t bring in a paper book) that you can interrupt when you actually do get a little bit of work.

      1. Sunshine on a cloudy day*

        Any advice on getting back to work or keeping motivated when you do get those little bits of work (if you’ve been in a similar situation)? I fall into this trap where I focus on personal stuff, but keep an eye out for little bits of work. If anything time sensitive comes in I take care of it right away, but if it’s not time sensitive I usually procrastinate. I’m not great at constantly switching back and forth between things (like thousands of tiny little things) so I prefer to let things collect and do them in batches. But I’m worried that might be making it look like I am too busy to do these tiny little things quickly.

        1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

          I’m not great at that either, honestly. I’ve got ADHD too, actually, and it’s basically just a constant struggle between having zero attention span (so not wanting to do the same thing for a long period of time) but also having a hard time switching between tasks. You know your office best, but if people generally don’t seem to mind waiting for the little things you let stack up a bit, then I’d say you might be okay with continuing to let them stack up.

    3. Mel C*

      If you’re bored – take classes! Coursera (and others) offers free online courses. They’ll try to get you to pay, but you can audit the courses. You’ll learn business-related stuff while staying “not-bored,” and if boss comes along and asks what you’re doing, you can say “I’m taking a course in ____.” While you’re taking the course, focus on taking lots of notes so that you stay busy and give your hands something to do. The courses might not apply directly to your job, but they can be broad enough that maybe they can, such as communication, business writing, and so on. I’d say, finish whatever you have to do for that day, then use up your time on these courses. That way, if anybody wonders if you’ve finished your job, you can honestly produce it. Good luck!

      1. Future Analyst*

        +1. If taking on more/more interesting work isn’t an option, use the time to learn other stuff.

    4. Tuesday Next*

      ”…the rest of the team is incredibly greatful and appreciative when I do these things and confirms that I am doing them correctly…” – this could be the key. Can the rest of the team not request help and ask that you get in involved? It seems to me that it would be a lot harder for your boss to say no in this case.

      In my (very personal) experience, admin and ADHD are a very poor match. You could look for a career counselor to help you identify transferable skills and move into a role that is a better fit for you.

        1. Jules the Third*

          Jobs good for someone with ADHD, per google search results article : sales; medical work, from nursing to dr; teaching

          Things that require regular task switching. I’m actually surprised to hear admin and ADHD are a poor match; when I did it, I did a little bit of everything, from copier repairs to desktop publishing / editing.

          1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

            When I was an admin I answered phones and did some courier-ing (definitely the highlight because I like driving). We didn’t get that many phone calls, and my most frequent errands were bank runs, but most of the banks were on my way home, so when I had to do them I’d usually just leave a little early.

            Oh! And once I had to type a letter to someone.

            I read a lot of news and webcomics at that job, and I hope to never work an admin job again because I (another ADHD-er) was so bored at this one.

          2. Matilda Jefferies*

            I’m going to disagree on the task switching – or at least, I’m going to give the standard disclaimer that it’s not universally applicable. I have ADHD, and task switching is my kryptonite – it’s just about the hardest thing ever for me!

            What has actually worked for me – sort of – is that I have a job that requires both. I do lots of big-picture analytical stuff, and also a fair amount of repetitive detaily stuff (see my griping about it elsewhere in this thread!) So while I can’t necessarily task-switch *within* any given day, it’s pretty easy for me to do an analytical project one day, and then a bunch of micro-focus things the next.

    5. autophage*

      Something that’s helped me when in similar positions has been to reframe how I’m looking at the work I’m doing. Not just “just do these basic, boring things perfectly” but to start seeking the edges of what I’m doing and looking for process improvements that go outside of the parts that are strictly “mine”. That can include things like asking the person before you or after you in a given workflow if they have any common impediments that you can assist with, or looking for opportunities to introduce standardization where previously there wasn’t any, or automating common tasks.

      This may end up taking the form of “asking your coworkers for work”, but the difference is that it’s more directed: not just “do you have anything you need help with?” but “I’ve noticed that [x] gets bogged down sometimes, would you like me to see if there’s anything I can do to reduce the tendency for that to happen?”

      Finally – good job on seeking ADHD treatment! That’s something I’ve struggled with, and it’s unfortunate that the very symptoms of ADHD make it difficult to get one’s ducks in a row in terms of treatment… but I can honestly say that it can *really* help.

    6. EA*

      I use to have this problem.

      Assuming you cannot get more tasks from boss/coworkers. I would create a schedule of things to do at work. Learn a new skills at work (like code academy, puzzles, online tutorials of what you are interested in). Read books on your computer. Long read news article.

      Don’t beg for more work anymore. You have more than tried. I begged in my last job and it created this whole hellish dynamic if them telling me “yes, but excuse xyz, you need to do xyz first”, and then the goal posts kept moving. Not every job allows for advance/more work for support staff.

    7. Mints*

      SAME. At least, very similar. I’ve had luck in improving/automating spreadsheets that nobody else uses. (Do you know VBA?) I also take Coursera classes. But honestly it’s part of the reason I’m a borderline job hopper too. I don’t plan to be bored forever

    8. Specialk9*

      I found related ways to keep my brain engaged. Doing training to understand the business, even if it’s not related to my actual work. Listen to audiobooks. Read blogs on improving a hobby. Study or learn or find things to research.

    9. Epsilon Delta*

      When I was in a similar situation I eventually gave up asking. Some things I did besides sitting there watching the minutes tick away: I made a fancy spreadsheet with macros and graphs to track my running, I tracked my calories on a fitness website (because, why not, it was something to do), I read a lot of Ask a Manager and Stack Overflow, I made manuals and documentation, and I had a clean inbox (I used the Inbox-Zero approach).

      1. Epsilon Delta*

        Oh and not that I recommend this, but I complained constantly to my friends and family about how bored I was. This situation sucks and I’m sorry you have to deal with it!

    10. QualitativeOverQuantitative*

      I’ve been in this position as well. I started asking people outside of my normal work circle, and I asked to help in specific ways/on specific projects. If I knew someone was working on a project that would involve data collection/organization I would ask to help with that specifically.

  4. WellRed*

    I realize it’s the negative people, trolls and haters that do the bulk of online commenting, but it was so discouraging to see how many (including women) thought the woman who just quit her entertainment reporting job when she found out her male coworker made twice as much, was a big whiner, etc. We have so. far. to. go.

    1. Lady Phoenix*

      Yay for Patriarchy. /sarcasm

      I feel that more older women or women in deeply patriarchal societies bulk at the idea of:
      A) Women being paid less than dudes
      B) Complaining about A
      C) Women working

      They are raised in a society that demands women be subservient and second class, and that rearing is hard to break.

      It is the same reason 60% of white women voted for Roy Moore, despite him being a child molester and rapist. /politics

      1. Foreign Octopus*

        I was actually talking about ingrained/unconscious misogyny in women just the other day.

        It’s really disheartening to hear a woman come out with these statements. More so than if a man says it. I just get angry when a man says these things, but when it’s women, it feels like a huge disappointment.

        As for the breakdown of the Roy Moore voting demographic, apparently even being a child molester and rapist won’t be enough to stop some people voting for him. I was hugely impressed with the numbers from the black voters who swung it.

      2. Mike C.*

        Be careful with that last statistic, there was a major divide between evangelical and non-evangelical voters. Something like 75-25 for one group and the reverse for the other.

        1. Loons with Gumption*

          Mike, I normally love your comments and your strong progressive voice on here. But…this one really sounds like it’s trying to excuse white women with a bit of a “not all white women” argument. White women have a ton of work to do, and the more clearly we can face that, the better. 60% of white women were willing to vote for a child molester because he represented upholding white supremacy even more than the other candidate did. I think that’s far more important than which of those white women held evangelical christian beliefs and which didn’t.

          1. Jules the Third*

            Yes, white *people* have a lot to work on for upholding racist Roy Moore .

            Holding white *women* particularly accountable for this, ie to a higher standard than white men, is actually misogynistic. The news stories have been leading with that, but it’s just another demonstration of the deep level of misogyny in our society and media.

            Intersectionality is hard. People choosing to be complicit in the structure of their own oppression because it makes them slightly less oppressed than someone else *sucks*. Blaming the people who are complicit deflects from the real problem: 70% of white voters in Alabama voted for Roy Moore, choosing not to believe the credible stories of six or more women.

          2. Specialk9*

            Few things enrage me as much as Roy Moore. But that’s not how many voters saw it – they believed the last minute allegations to be a smear campaign with political motivations, and have bought into the brainwashing that liberals are actually evil, like going to hell evil. They (mostly) didn’t think they were voting for pedophilia and white supremacy, they thought they were being good Christians not swayed by a misinformation campaign. I disagree deeply and thoroughly, but am trying to be careful not to demonize the actual voters. (Say what you want about the leaders – they know what they’re doing.)

          3. Mike C.*

            I’m not trying to excuse anyone here, I just think that if you’re going to talk about a tiny, non-random subset of a much larger population that it’s important to highlight any specific idiosyncrasies.

          2. Gaia*

            It is because they didn’t believe them. If they had believed them it would have been a major issue. That they didn’t believe them is gross in and of itself but that’s the world as it is today. Let’s keep fighting to change that.

      3. Elizabeth West*

        I was raised in that kind of atmosphere and I absolutely do NOT feel that way. But I do see how ingrained it is, because I watched other people swallow it whole. It’s very disheartening.

    3. Foreign Octopus*

      I agree that it’s mainly those with negative opinions who feel the need to comment on subjects like this, and I hope it’s not representative of the people as a whole.

      I would be furious if I discovered I was being paid half of what my male coworker was making for the exact same job. Good on her for deciding that it wasn’t a situation she wanted to continue in. And good on the women who stick it out in an effort to change it from the inside.

      Still, like you said, the distance does seem a lot at times.

    4. Adlib*

      Wow. That woman happens to be from my hometown, and I agree. In my opinion, if you don’t like something, and it won’t change, get out! I don’t get why that’s something people would put her down for.

      1. Sloane Kittering*

        Yeah, she’s actually doing what those whiney boostrappers SAY they want people to do in those situations: leave to find another opportunity. She’s not suing or whatever they’re afraid women will do when we realize we’re mistreated. I guess they’re angry she’s complaining about it, but that’s a necessary service if you ask me. I respect that woman’s choices.

        1. Let's Sidebar*

          So this. There seems to be no way to advocate for fair treatment of any demographic that will not be thoroughly criticized. You can’t even simply remove yourself from a situation where you are being treated unfairly like Catt Sadler did without being called ungrateful and having your talent and appearance (always appearance!) disparaged by strangers. It’s infuriating.

          1. Gaia*

            Because when they have nothing else, they go after looks. After all, we woman are only good for being pretty little things for men to look at….

        2. Jadelyn*

          EXACTLY!

          “There’s no need for laws around wages, gender discrimination, etc. because it’s a free job market and people can leave for a better-paying job.”
          *woman leaves a job that was paying her less than a male coworker to find a job that pays her better*
          “Wait no not like that!”

    5. OlympiasEpiriot*

      I was shocked she left without another job to go to immediately — but, perhaps she does and we just don’t know about it. I would have preferred that both she and her cohost quit. I wish more men would do more than performative lipservice.

      1. Future Analyst*

        Yes to this. I also wish more men would DO instead of talking theoretically about how they want their colleagues to be treated.

      2. ThursdaysGeek*

        I was in a situation like that (new management and male co-workers got a nice raise for being male), and my two male co-workers told me it was time to find a new job. I asked if they wanted to work for a company that treated women like that. We all three left within a few weeks of each other.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Bravo for all of you. I hope the three of you explained it to the boss with pictures to help him understand.

    7. Temperance*

      Seriously, I applauded her for it. Honestly, there will always be people who think women deserve scraps left behind by men. It sucks. The fact that we’re talking about it is a huge step forward, though.

    8. Millennial Lawyer*

      Also the people that completely miss the point… for example saying things like : “so what, maybe they thought he provided more value. Not everything is sexism.” The problem is that men are considered having more value even when doing the same job!!! Urgh

      2. Sloane Kittering*

        Several people also indicated that “there are lots of pretty women out there” or that her age or appearance are important to the job. Now it’s TV so grain of salt, but this is a pretty direct reflection on sexism in the workplace. There are lots of pretty men in the world, and they slowly get older and fatter too, but somehow we manage to stagger on and watch them anyway.

      3. Not So NewReader*

        A woman can work many times harder to even be perceived as working. I have heard so many male bosses say, “Hire middle aged women, they work three times as hard as a man and they get more done.” I tried to explain, it’s not a choice. We HAVE to.

    9. KMB213*

      This irritated me, too. Cat Sadler did exactly what the same trolls always say women *should* do. I often see commenters saying that women who find out they’re being paid less should do something about it instead of complaining. That’s what she did! She found a new job and quit the one where she was undervalued. (I understand this isn’t an option for all women, but it’s what the trolls often suggest.) It feels like women can’t win sometimes.

      1. Specialk9*

        Well, yeah, that’s the point. It’s like ‘don’t riot in protest for your basic human rights.’
        ‘Ok, I’ll kneel.’
        ‘Kneeling is so disrespectful.’
        ‘Wait what? It’s *kneeling*.’
        ‘well yeah but you did it while black. I’m going to get you fired for your arrogant kneeling.’

        In other words, a situation designed to be impossible. My abusive ex used to design similar traps.

        1. Gaia*

          This. It is designed so we literally cannot win. We complain and fight for improvement, we should have just shut up and left. We leave, we should have just stayed. We stay and work quietly for improvement, see – we’re fine with it so why do others care?

    10. Gaia*

      Who in their right mind would stay? Who says “Well, I make have of what this other person makes but have the same job, title, responsibilities, qualifications, experience, education and background and they definitely aren’t willing to pay me the same soo….guess I’ll just stay and earn half of what I deserve”!? NO ONE, that’s who. I don’t even care how the genders shake out (although it is almost always a woman making less than a man), this is beyond what a reasonable person should ever tolerate.

  5. BittersweetCharity*

    Terrible onboarding experience: Please share your stories.

    I need commiseration for the hellish first week on the new job.

    Thanks, AAM community!

    1. Fabulous*

      At one temp job I worked, I was hired on a Thursday and told to arrive at 9am Monday morning. In short, they weren’t ready for me. I was to work reception at their small office, but the admin who was previously there (she worked in a different area and covered front desk intermittently) was still in the process of moving her computer out of the way. I had no computer, login, or badge for the first two days. Maybe I got my badge later the first day, but it wasn’t ready for hours. Everything in the office required badge access or a login, so literally all I could do is sit there and press the release lock button for the door. It was rough…

      1. Tuesday Next*

        I have a similar story. I arrived at a new job. My line manager looked at me blankly and asked me what I was doing there. I (a little freaked out) said that it was my first day at the job that he (hiring manager) had hired me for.

        He looked panicky and said that they “weren’t ready for me”, that they had told the recruitment agency that they only wanted me to start a week later, and would I mind starting in a week?

        I said: absolutely I’d mind, my letter of appointment stated the 1st and I had no plan to lose a week’s salary, and that if the recruiter had in fact asked me to start a week later I would have said no. (I am not in the USA if anyone is wondering.)

        So they sent me home on a week of paid leave.

      2. AndersonDarling*

        When I started Old Job, they took all the new hires on a tour of the campus and dropped the newbies off along the way. The first stop was my desk. I never got the tour. I never went into the other buildings on campus. I didn’t know where HR was or the security stations.
        Even after 2 years, I never found the cafeteria. I could have asked someone, but there’s a point when it is too embarrassing to ask.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          In one temp job I had to eat with the patients as the mean girls in the office told me that was the only canteen.

          It was a psychiatric hospital.

          There was another canteen for staff. That they chose not to inform me of.

          1. Former Inmate*

            Really, it was a win for you. They sound like jerks, and patients are way more fun anyway. On the downside, there may have been better food available for staff, depending on the hospital, but probably not worth it.

    2. NicoleK*

      The first day. The person “training” me in on our computer systems, applications, and software told me that she isn’t good at computers. And she was not lying.

    3. Mockingjay*

      Early career story. I moved on from my first post-college job to a bigger company with more opportunities and pay bands.

      First day, I go through HR indoc and sign all the forms. Then new supervisor escorts me upstairs to new office, which I will be sharing with a senior coworker. Supervisor drops me off, I put my purse on the desk. Senior coworker looks at me, bangs her keyboard and signs off, tells me, “I’m quitting. Good luck; you’ll need it,” and stalks out the door. She had quit on the spot.

      It was 2 years of hell in that place. I finally got a transfer to another department, but I was hauled back for another 6 months to “help out” while they tried to find my replacement. No one wanted to work for this group.

      Once I got to finally stay in the other department, I spent 5 delightful years on a really good project.

      1. Bostonian*

        Oooooh this reminds me of my own story. Not exactly the first day on the job, but rather my first day in a new department of the same company I had been at…

        There were 2 people in the department on that shift, and I was joining as the third person on the team. One of my new coworkers, Margaery, let’s say, was very pleasant and nice in all my previous, brief interactions with her. The other, Cersei, was a bit surly and sarcastic and kept to herself, but I didn’t think too much of it since I tend to be more reserved, too.

        About an hour into my first shift, I hear a screaming match, filled with name-calling, door slamming, profanity and everything. Margaery walked out on the spot because she couldn’t stand working with Cersei any more. Now I was left alone working with Cersei from that point on. I worked with her for 5 years in that department (luckily it was a growing department and a lot of other people joined), and I can absolutely see why Margaery would rather have no job than work with her.

    4. Ann O'Nemity*

      I was hired to replace someone who was retiring and I was supposed to shadow him for two weeks. On my first day, he told me his house sold more quickly than expected and he wanted to leave for Florida so today would be his last day. He rush-trained me for three hours with a “let’s get it over with / I don’t care anymore” attitude. Then he left and I never saw him again. The company was just as shocked as I was and had no other training or onboarding planned.

      1. twig*

        I worked with someone who went through something similar:

        My CoWorker (CW) was supposed to be trained by he predecessor who was retiring in two weeks. That person spent most of the two weeks going to various retirement luncheons and visiting folks (we’re a state university– which is like a small town — she was saying goodbye to people all over campus). So my predecessor got maybe one day of training and was left with a crummy manual for the system that she worked in (how to do what, but not the whys and wherefores etc)

        A few years later, I come along. My duties include backing up CW and taking on part of her work load. EVERYTIME I had a question about how to do something or why/when etc. her response would be: “I learned from the manual” or “I didn’t get any training and had to learn from the manual.” not actually helping me, just complaining about her own training/lack thereof.

        Then she got upset that I wasn’t doing the job to her standards and complained to my boss and her boss. Rather than Talking To Me or, I don’t know, giving me clearer directions…

    5. Morning Glory*

      My very first temp job after I graduated, before I got a real full-time job. I showed up 20 minutes early and was immediately put to work by one person in a 4-person office. Another guy came in later, did not see me (or look for me at all – it was a very small office) and called the temp agency to complain that I was late.
      The temp agency called me to ask why I was late.
      The guy found me on the phone with the temp agency, got mad at me for taking a personal call, and did not believe me when I said I had been there the entire time. Even when the first person backed me up.
      It was only a 1-week position, so not temp to perm or anything, but I was so glad to be out of there by the end of it.

    6. BBBizAnalyst*

      At last large financial behemoth toxic job, my terrible manager forgot to submit new hire tickets to IT thinking she could do it the day of. Because horrible financial behemoth was so big, there were several layers of bureaucracy before it could get done. I didn’t have a profile and couldn’t log into the network for two weeks. I was at my desk reading the employee manual daily, bored out of my mind with no training. It is no surprise I left that place as soon as my year mark was up.

    7. Emi.*

      I had to attend a two-day “Welcome to the Teapot Agency Family” orientation, which was mostly fine and included free lunch.

      The terrible part was “Diversity Bingo.”

      Yes, we were given bingo cards with squares marked “a woman,” “a man,” “a person who has not graduated from college,” “a person of African-American descent,” “an LGBTQ person,” etc, and then instructed to mill around the room, find people who fit those descriptions to sign them. We basically all just went around saying “Here, I’ll see if I can sign something for you if you try to sign something for me,” because the alternative seemed to be saying “Hey, you ever been on welfare?” and “You look like you’re not from this country!” and “Any Jews around here?”

      Afterwards, they told us we were supposed to be interrogating our feelings of discomfort.

      6. KitKat*

        Alison, maybe for one of your roundups of reader comments on a particular topic, you could do one on the worst diversity/cultural sensitivity training we’ve experienced.

        Though maybe it would just be too depressing :(

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          I attended a ‘diversity awareness’ training session in which one of the case studies said something like: “Emma is married to another woman. Helen is religious.” Then asked how you would handle this situation.

          And for once in my life I thought of the right thing to say in the moment, put my hand up and said: I don’t understand this question. There isn’t a situation. Did you perhaps write ‘religious ’ when you meant to write ‘homophobic’?

      7. Violet Rose*

        YIKES. We did a variation of that in Girl Scouts, but it was things like “born in another country” and… I forget, probably “has eaten octopus” and stuff like that. Random things that applied to a broad range of people and that made good “meet people” topics, not deeply personal and oft-stigmatised details!

        1. Athena*

          That was our uni icebreaker at the start of each semester, and by third year we all knew enough people in the cohort to be able to write names down without getting up, occasionally yelling across the tutorial room to confirm points. “Hey, Steve, you were born in England, right?” “Yeah, that’s me.” “Sweet.”

      8. i2c2*

        “Interrogating our feelings of discomfort” is such stellar icing on the awkwardness cake.
        I’d think it would be abundantly clear where the discomfort was coming from…

      10. Big Person*

        College – same kind of deal – one question was “biggest person in the room” – Well, I was one of them, but Mike was bigger by far. Yeah, didn’t he feel good, and wasn’t the instructor responsible surprised when I told him I was appalled by that question, and a couple of others I don’t recall (it was a religious college too… I was gobsmacked.)

    8. QuakerBanker*

      At the very first credit union that I worked at, new employees trained for a week at the corporate branch and then went to their permanent branches the following week. We were given keys to get into our branches during our training week. On my first day at my branch, I arrived and saw another car in the parking lot, so I assumed that another employee was there. I let myself into the branch. Well, turns out, nobody else was there. The alarm started going off, but I didn’t have a password to turn it off. The police and my new manager arrived at the same time. It was mortifying.

    9. Ange*

      Arrived on my first day, was taken to my desk and told that the 9(!) boxes of audio typing were my work, and to get on with it. Didn’t even get shown where the bathroom was.

    10. Mazzy*

      Fortune 500 company as a long term temp was the worst – no training whatsoever until the end of week one, no phone or computer until end of first day, no badge for a few days, no work until month two.

    11. MarianK*

      I got a short term contract job doing clerical work and the staffer who was supposed to assign tasks to me and train me gave me a tiny trickle of work to do (less than an hour per day) for WEEKS. Staffers who would normally give clerical small tasks were afraid to because they had been told not to overwhelm me. Tasks I did were frequently kicked back to me and I was told I had done X incorrectly even if I had done X exactly the same way last week and had it go through just fine. There were some other things going on as well, like a new manager who genuinely had no idea what to do with me. I was determined to stay, though, as it was a foot in the door for an organization that doesn’t have a lot of turnover and rarely has job openings for the general public. Later, I figured the staffer in charge of me was hoping I would get bored and leave at the end of the contract instead of renewing. I cleaned the cubicle from top to bottom (it was grimy and jam-packed with boxes of old paperwork), and studied everything I could get my hands on. I hung in there and eventually got a permanent position – it was worth it for me, although it meant dealing with a seriously dysfunctional workplace for a while, and in other circumstances I would have left at the end of the contract. This may be a good time to assess the situation and see if the terrible onboarding is an example of what you should expect.

    12. Nervous Accountant*

      Compared to what my company does now for new hires, mine was just bare bones and crap. Like being thrown in to shark filled waters when I just know how to paddle.

      It’s been 3 years and the company has grown like 3 times, so it’s better in that way. The new hire schedule is like 7 Days long w lots of meetings and webinars and stuff

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Mine was similar. I received so little training it’s laughable (see above). Now I see my company doing elaborate onboarding for all new employees. 95% of me is happy that it’s improved so much; the remaining 5% is petty salt-in-the-wound envy.

        1. Specialk9*

          I commend you for keeping it to 5%. The worst behavior seems to come from people who nurture that feeling!

    13. Lumen*

      NewJob wanted me to start as soon as possible. Which was great, because I wanted out of my OldJob as soon as possible. When I got there, it was clear they didn’t really have any kind of training plan and didn’t know what to do with me. The two people on the team I was joining turned out to have massive issues with the supervisor, who had hired me, so they transferred all their angst and resentment for her onto me, including being pissed off that one of them had had to move desks to make room for me. They were openly cold and seemed exasperated when I tried to be friendly.

      The supervisor asked one of them to train me on a small, specific task (an absurdly easy one) and then, with her over my shoulder, set me to start working on it. The person who had trained me stood up and started freaking out that I wasn’t ready and shouldn’t be doing this. Worst of all? The supervisor backed down.

      I went home and felt like crying. Had I made a huge mistake? Even though OldJob was gaslighting and sexist and had no room for growth and underpaid me by thousands of dollars a year, had I jumped into a situation just as bad?

      Well: no.

      I am still at that job. Turns out those two people are just middle schoolers in adult bodies, and no one corrects or addresses it with them, so it isn’t likely to change. They aren’t always nasty to me, but when they’re in bad moods it’s like they look for a reason to find flaw in my work. Which they trained me to do. But they’re ridiculous, and over time I’ve learned that MANY people at NewJob see that and know it. They don’t take these two seriously, so I don’t, either. My supervisor, our group manager, and the department VP all regularly tell me what a great job I’m doing. Seniors in OTHER departments tell me what a great job I’m doing. I’m also finally paid well, can work from home when needed, have good benefits, and my supervisor is flexible and understanding about appointments and sick days.

      I am really sorry your first week has sucked. I hope it gets better for you, like it did for me.

    14. Ramona Flowers*

      Accountancy firm. I was an office temp. When I arrived they put a copy of their client brochure in my tray and told me to familiarise myself with it (this will be important later).

      There were several older male staff who made sexist comments, which the other women giggled at. Awkward. And they kept calling things by the wrong name and expecting me to understand eg “Print the teapot spreadsheet” did not mean print a computer file – it meant find a physical document and either scan or photocopy it.

      I called the temp agency on the Friday and quit.

      The accountancy firm then complained to the temp agency that I had read a confidential client list. AS IN THE ONE THEY GAVE ME AND TOLD ME TO READ.

      (Happily I started a much better paid temp job the next Monday that I loved and stayed in for ages)

    15. Mimmy*

      Not terrible, but I wasn’t too thrilled with the on boarding at my current job. I work at a state-run facility, so the overall orientation to the state department and my specific division was good, if not a bit overkill. However, orientation to my actual facility was, imho, lacking. Nine months in, and I still don’t feel like I have the “lay of the land”.

      Also, I’m an instructor with no prior instruction experience or training, which I made clear in my interview. The instructor I shadowed is more experienced but not really trained either, so I felt like I’ve been winging it all this time with somewhat mixed results. That seems to be the nature of state employment–seems like they bring in people with less than ideal credentials just to have a warm body. Maybe I’m just cynical.

    16. Kelly L.*

      My interviewer really went to bat for me…and then got canned a few days later, so I had that funk of “the fired guy liked her” around me from the beginning. And I was also told I was being hired for the branch of the business that was 3 blocks from my house, but they actually hired me for the one across town.

    17. Mike C.*

      Nothing new specific, I just hate that it’s takes weeks and months to hire someone, but on their first day you can even have the basic sh!t taken care of? Like computer accounts and what not?

      Come on.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        This is making me love my current job who had my logins ready, introductory catch-ups booked with people I needed to meet, and a selection of stationery ready for me on my desk. Also the first thing they did was show me the kettle and offer me tea. Before even showing me my desk. Which told me I’d found my people…

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Exjob had a welcome kit in a branded tote bag that contained a stress ball (!?), a branded coffee cup, a stapler and tape dispenser (which I barely used in nearly four years–the office was mostly paperless), and a branded pen. I used the coffee cup as a penholder, since I had my own cup with a warmer, and left it behind when I got fired because who the f*ck wants a cup from the place that fired you?

          But so far, every job I’ve had has had my computer set up right away. I could at least sign in and configure everything the way I wanted, even if I didn’t have any actual work to do. Here’s hoping NextJob is the same way.

      2. Observer*

        Sometimes the two are linked. It’s “We’ve taken sooo long to hire, that we need the new person to start RIGHT NOW. What do you mean that it’s going to take a few days to get everything set up?!”

      3. Bea W*

        This happened all the time at my old job. People would be waiting 4-6 weeks for a freaking laptop even if the requisition was submitted weeks before starting. All of our work was done on the computer!

        I once ordered a privacy screen for an employee. It took 8 months to deliver it. When I asked for a rush on a replacement battery for someone’s laptop, it took 2 weeks. Back-up drives took 2 months. I cringed every time I had to order something controlled by IT. I’d check the WB Mason catalog first, but most of the computer related items were grayed out, and people were forced to order them through IT. What I learned later is that the items would actually ship within 48 hours from the vendor, and arrive promptly, but they were all routed to a central location rather than shipped directly to the employee. I routinely explained to people that anything ordered through that catalogue was shipped to Site B where it was then strapped to the back of a turtle for delivery to Site A, and if they needed it in less than 6 weeks to let me know so I could make a special request for a faster turtle.

      4. AMPG*

        My old job once did an overhaul of our onboarding process once we realized that it actually took longer than two weeks to have everything in place for someone to start, which meant that we were expecting people to give a standard two weeks of notice to their old job, but wouldn’t actually be able to accommodate them for several days after that.

      5. Windchime*

        No kidding. At a place I used to work, the manager would neglect to have a computer ready for new hires. Where the new hires were programmers. Who wouldn’t have had a computer, had the other devs not gone ahead and arranged for the computer to be installed. The manager would “forget”.

    18. Sled Dog Mama*

      Not so bad compared to some.
      I was required to go to a two day “orientation”. I was the only exempt person in the group and 95% of the info pertained to non-exempt positions.
      HR also gave me conflicting, and all wrong info on PTO, when I got my first paycheck I was getting what my supervisor had said not either of the lower numbers HR had told me.

      1. Mimmy*

        That’s how I felt at the orientations (three days worth!) for my current job – I’m what you would probably call a “perma-temp”. Much of the information seemed geared towards permanent staff; I think I was the only temp. I felt really out of place.

    19. Miss Nomer*

      When I first started at this job, my first two days were spent kind of like usual, meeting people, etc. Then came The Wednesday From Hell.

      One of our higher ups who was usually remote was in, and I was introduced to him as having similar educational backgrounds. (Think something like biology in an office mostly full of journalists or something like that.) Just like that, I was on a project with him. I was excited, because he had achieved a designation in the field I really wanted to get into.

      It was a nightmare. He spent the first several hours ranting about being under appreciated, but “now that there are two of us, we can have a corner office in 45 days”. Never mind the fact that he essentially did have one; he just worked remotely. When we went for a “working lunch”, his card was declined *after* he argued with the waitress about the price of the meal. I covered it – not ideal since this is my first job out of college and I haven’t been paid, but whatever. It was awkward.

      That afternoon, we’re working away and he’s finally stopped ranting when another higher-up knocks and asks if he and two others can borrow a corner of the conference room for a “brief chat”. We shrugged and told him to go crazy. I don’t think we expected him to literally go crazy and pretend we weren’t there in order to use the conference room to rip the other two people a new one. I have never in my life been yelled at like that. The worst of it was, one of the people being yelled at was hired the same day as me, so it was his 3rd day.

      Honestly, by the end of The Wednesday From Hell, I felt mildly traumatized. Thankfully it calmed down significantly after that, but it was not a good start.

      What happened during your onboarding? Whatever it was, you have my support!

    20. Liz2*

      Manager was on vacation my first week. Took three weeks to get a computer. I sat at an empty cube, being given no materials or reference points. Our team wasn’t assembled and manager wasn’t interested in anything. I brought a book to read. Team met occasionally and randomly, I was never given much of anything to do. The team was disbanded in a few months, I was reassigned to a new team led by a guy who thought you had to make a copy when you sent a fax. I was let go in a round of layoffs after 9 months from start day.

      First job out of college.

    21. periwinkle*

      First day on the job, after attending the company-wide new employee orientation: Here’s your computer, here’s your big project, figure it out yourself because no one else has a clue. Oh, and your manager is off to a customer meeting for the entire next week and so is the only other person in your role in this department. Welcome aboard!

      You’d think an HR division would have some sort of onboarding, right?

      It actually worked out to be a great situation. I took the AAM “how to be a badass” advice to heart, proved my value, and am still in the same role enjoying a huge degree of autonomy.

    23. Rowan*

      I once started a job for a software company where they were conducting a new experiment in onboarding. Instead of having the cohort of new employees go through a week of instructor-led training on their software, they had us all sit in a classroom and do the same material, but through self-paced online training. Very, very bad online training.

      So we all sat in a room for a week trying to help each other figure out what anything meant or how any of it worked, and also wondering why we had to be confined to this classroom if the training was online & self-paced.

      AND – they did this for *everyone*, even if you were, say, being hired into HR or Accounting and didn’t need to know how to program customizations for the software, much less have the background to understand any of the training. It was incredibly grueling and demoralizing.

    24. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

      I showed up my first day at what would end up being a horrible job and found a beautiful brand new monitor and tower on my desk. Still in their boxes. They expected me to put it together myself. I was not hired into any sort of IT capacity.

      Thankfully I was young and pitiful so one of my new coworkers helped me out. Mostly because he didn’t want me to break anything.

      1. Curious Cat*

        I like to imagine this is what it would be like to work at IKEA, forced to build your own desk/put together your equipment

    25. Jules the First*

      I should have known that LastJob had no idea what to do with me when they called and asked if I’d be willing to take my start date as paid leave because they were “really busy”. That meant that my first actual day was a team workshop (awkward!). Then my boss kept telling me to duck out early because we weren’t busy…I think I had at least one paid day off a week that month, plus two or three days where I left two or three hours early. It got no better in January…

      In hindsight, I should have quit then and not waited until they laid me off in May.

      NewJob theoretically has an excellent onboarding…but I wouldn’t know as six months in I’ve yet to experience it. People keep saying things like “was that not covered in your orientation?” But they’re adorably disorganised, and it doesn’t happen to too many people, so I’ve forgiven them.

    26. Drama Mama*

      First day working at a research study. They gave me two 4 inch thick binders of study protocol and told me I had to read them before the end of the day. Every page.

    27. Pink Cashmere*

      At old job I knew within 20 minutes that I’d made the biggest mistake of my life. My line manager introduced me to the 8 colleagues who I’d shared an office with- some couldn’t even to bring themselves to look at me as they mumbled hello. 1 stared me down – it was bizarre. My line manager decided to show me around the building and as she did so she started to bitch one of the people I’d be working with, going on and on about how apparently hopeless she was. Then we bumped into a senior member of staff who ignored me completely as she complained to my boss that she’d just been into the office with my 8 new colleagues and had been universally ignored when she’d said hello. She kept going on and on about how rude they were. When we got back to my office my boss told them what the woman had said about them which caused 1 guy to pipe up “no one said hello because no one likes her!”. For the rest of the day I was just left with nothing to do. My boss sat behind me so I turned around to ask her a question only to catch her rolling her eyes! No one spoke to me all day and there was a really uncomfortable atmosphere.

      The following morning I walked in & said a bright and cheery hello to everyone. Not a single person responded or even looked up. No one said hello because they’d already decided they didn’t like me and three years of hell followed.

    28. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      I have two not-completely-awful but definitely not-great experiences. Current job: HR asked me if I could start on the Friday prior to the original Monday agreed upon date due to my boss having to go to our international office the week I was starting and he wanted to be there for my first day. So, I come in on Friday. HR has me fill out some paper work and gives me my ID badge, and then calls my boss over. We walk to the door to make sure my badge works, then introduced me to 3 or 4 people that we happen to walk past, and arrive at my shared office. He introduces me to my coworker, says she can answer any questions I have, and that was the last I saw of my boss for over a week. No emails, no calls, no contact at all beyond that 10 minutes in the morning of my first day. He’s very hands off, I still only speak to him maybe once a week and for not more than 5 minutes.

      The other wasn’t really onboarding, as I had been there for at least a couple of weeks. But something happened with my first paycheck at a previous employer where they mixed up the direct deposit info for my check and another new hire. I was in training all day and had no access to my pay stub or to check my deposit (this was before smartphones). My boss called to alert me because the deposit I received was at least 4 times what I should have received and there was much freaking out from some higher-ups that I hadn’t already reported that I was paid way too much. At least my boss was reasonable and knew there was no way I knew and was able to get people calmed down so it all worked out.

    29. Rusty Shackelford*

      It’s not as bad as most of the ones above me, but I worked for Giant Soul-Sucking Retailer one summer while I was in college, and my onboarding consisted of two videos. One was about benefits, although I wasn’t eligible for benefits because I was a part-time employee. The other was about risk management, and it probably covered some other things as well, but the only thing I could ever remember about it was that if a customer slipped and fell, you were NOT NOT NOT supposed to say “I’m sorry,” because that was an admission of guilt and the lawyers would be all over it.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          It is entirely possible that I did get it, but it was so traumatic I have blocked it from my memory…

    30. Crylo Ren*

      Sorry to hear that!

      At one of my first jobs out of undergrad, the employer was ADAMANT that I start ASAP so I only gave 1 week notice to my previous job. Then, on my first day…there was no computer set up. There was no real onboarding program or materials to read or anything. My supervisor ended up getting me magazines *from the bathroom* (think: Vogue, Cosmo, whatever) and said I could just read those until 5:00 PM. I wasn’t allowed to have my phone out because it was a company that dealt with customer data security. It was hellish.

    31. ArtK*

      Recently I started with a new company. They require a background check (first time in 40+ years of working), so I signed the paperwork. HR contacted me a few days later and said “Your background check came through just fine, except that they couldn’t verify your current address. Would you please send a utility bill, etc.?” A simple search of my name and the address will come up with multiple public records. I own the place, so it’s in the county recorder’s office which is open to anyone. It’s in my credit report, which they had access to. I did snark back at HR questioning the ability of the search firm they used. HR came back and said that “… others have had the exact same issue. They’re fine on everything else, so we’ll stick with them.” If the search firm gets that simple thing wrong, what else are they getting wrong? How can HR trust them at all?

    32. voluptuousfire*

      I was due to start work as a receptionist in a medical office on Tuesday, Sept 11th, 2001. I live in NYC. Of course my start date got pushed up. Pretty much anyone in the office with medical training of some sort left to go to Manhattan to assist.

      Just the highlights:

      * Never actually filled out a W-2/I-9 or even knew what my pay rate was until I got my first paycheck, with taxes taken out. (Still not sure how they were able to get away with that)
      * Never actually had a set schedule. Was told to ask the office manager (also my manager) if I should come in the next day.
      * Had a horrible manager. She was afraid of confrontation and anytime she didn’t want to deal with something she didn’t like (which was often), she would be “in a meeting with the doctor.” I think she just hid.
      * In the end it didn’t work out (I wonder why?), and I ended up giving my notice to one of the medical assistants because after trying to get the OM on the phone for 5 days.

      This was over 3 weeks. This office ended up being a horror show and busted by one of the consumer reporters on the local news for having untrained medical staff take blood and do xrays. I kid you not.

    33. Not So NewReader*

      So many places think onboarding is not important.
      Job 1. I think the boss had no clue about what his department did. I was told to shadow someone and that was it. Years later the boss was fired and I was still waiting for him to tell me what I would work on. (In real life, I just staked out an area and decided that I would work on all Xs.)

      Job2. Showed up the first day to find 3 coworkers. None of them greeted me. I greeted them. They began arguing among themselves as no one wanted to train me. The arguing went on for 45 minutes, meanwhile I still have my coat on because I can’t get past them to hang it up. Then I realized this is not a problem, I have my coat and I can just leave. A long time later I let the boss know what happened.

      Job3. No computer and here I am. It took a bit but finally I was assigned a computer, that was probably two weeks. Then the boss left on vacation for three weeks. My counterpart was new also. She told them she was familiar with computer work. I had to turn the computer on for her every day. I had to talk her through typing up a document in word… this is how you open Word…..

      I stayed at all these places and there were things about each place that I really liked. But the first few days took the determination of ten giants for me to get through it.

    34. Jules the Third*

      Not a horror story, but boring and badly managed.
      1st job out of MBA school, they had at least 4 new people from my program in the same 2-week period. I never checked with the others, but I had no computer for a week. They printed out the documentation, so I read it. I sat and watched people do their work; a couple of people let me do some data entry while they watched me. Chatted and got to know people.

      Friday 11am-ish, boss says, ‘there’s really nothing more you can do until you get a computer, take the afternoon off’. So I went home and got married.

      It makes my wedding anniversaries REALLY EASY – work sends me a congratulatory email on every work anniversary, so I get a reminder five days before the wedding anniversary. I don’t actually remember my wedding *date* – early June sometime. 10th, maybe?

      Our first date happened April 6th, I remember that. That was actually what we commemorate.

    35. Pamalamadingding*

      Hired as a clinic sec’y at a busy children’s specialty clinic. Person I replaced had left 9 months before. State job. Hiring process tedious (3 months from posting to decision, then 2 months to start date). Showed up to clinic after HR orientation. Boss was a mess–just received word her mother was dying, out of state. She bawled all day (understandably) and then left the state for 6 weeks to be with mom for her final days–I completely support that, but yikes–no desk manual, no direction, no computer privileges, (computer was monitored, so ANY site out of intranet was prohibited) no software training, any attempt to help at anything was spurned by mean girls afraid I was after their jobs–I just sat there for 6 weeks waiting for her to return. In my little 8 x 8 windowless pass thru office, just off the waiting room, listening to Despicable Me loop over and over and over and over and over on the patient tv….

    36. Julianne*

      In my school district, new hires rarely get fully onboarded before the school year actually starts. The biggest problems are that you don’t usually get your first paycheck until the fourth week of school, and insurance can take until November to kick in, but there are also many little day to day problems that end up seeming almost as bad as not getting paid. Like how you have to enter your employee ID number to use the copy machines (so, no copies) and log into the student information systems (good luck getting your class list or access to IEPs), and even before HR gives you access to your district email account, they send you important emails with action steps required for your onboarding at that email account.

    37. Oops*

      Formal HR stuff was fine, then I was sent to lunch with a peer. She spent the entire lunch complaining about how terrible the place and the people were and I went back to my desk and cried on the phone to my husband. It ended up being fine though–her complaints weren’t completely baseless, but it was all manageable once I got integrated.

    38. only acting normal*

      My first day was the week after a fire gutted one office and left half the building smoke damaged. There was no IT and the person onboarding me was running round finding places for everyone else to work. They gave me a textbook to read and sent me home. We got our office back about 2 weeks later. It smelled slightly bacony for months.

    39. Ladybugger*

      I got this.

      Got to new job, in New Job First Day dress, had to clean my disgustingly filthy office for two hours with Lysol wipes before I could even touch anything. No computer, no office supplies, no phone. Just totally empty except for what looked liek years of dirt. They gave me a choice of three filthy chairs that were all broken in some way, presenting it like this fabulous opportunity. Boss talked to me for like half an hour and then disappeared and left me there to…? There was a safe in the office people needed so coworkers came in and out all day while I sat there staring at a painting of white tigers and pretending to write notes in my notebook.

      I was also invited to a summer BBQ at lunch and happily got some food, my boss said hi and then disappeared to sit at a full table with her friends and ignored me. I stood around awkwardly as there were no other seats open, it was blazing hot and I don’t do well at introducing myself to strangers, and then went upstairs to eat in peace. Later she came upstairs to my office to reprimand me for missing the BBQ that was “for me”. In no way billed as for me and no one knew who I was.

      Then she went on vacation for four weeks. In the interim I moved mostly to my second office (I had one in a building a few blocks away for some reason – apparently I needed one in both buildings), which was at least clean. When she came back, I got reprimanded for spending all my time at the other office because I was supposed to split my time. She also yelled at me for starting a Teapots Plan (I was the Teapots Manager), because “who authorized me to do that”. She was also mad we didn’t have new hosting for the website, when I had zero details about it and neither did the tech guy. She started this whole conversation by snapping at me “I heard you’ve been talking bad about ThisTeapot Company.” I had indeed noted no one seemed to smile there, and she had spies.

      I left that day. They wouldn’t even let me get my stuff! They made me wait in the parking lot and have a box run out by the manager there. This was not some top secret Fortune 500 company.

      About a year later, I sent her an anonymous envelope full of glitter in the mail, when those become a popular thing on the internet for a hot minute. I would be lying if I said I regret it. To be honest I probably could have handled myself better in the face of all the ridiculousness but I was just so thrown by the whole experience.

    40. BJ*

      I worked on a contract with a military installation, but there was a glitch in processing our clearances, so we couldn’t get ID’s for two months. Which meant we couldn’t even get on the installation to go to work and there was no way to work remotely.

    41. Mandela*

      My first “real” job was a nightmare. I was new to the professional world and was eager to make a good impression so on the day I got the offer, I was expected to start training… 15 minutes later. I ignorantly agreed even though I should’ve immediately seen the signs for dysfunction. Also, I never even received full training and was still learning about my role the entire year and a half I unfortunately stayed.

    42. BittersweetCharity*

      Wow, thank you for sharing your stories!

      I feel a world better knowing I’m far from alone when it comes to terrible welcomes from workplaces.

      Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    43. Phoenix Programmer*

      Here is one that ultimately ended up being a place I stayed and enjoyed!

      The day before I started hr called and cut my salary $12,000. This resulted in me delaying starting actually while I negotiated getting that salary back. Which I did!

      Then on day 1 I was stuck in the hallway for 2 hours since there was a mix-up with who was supposed to pick me up.

      Did not have a computer for a week.

      Unknown to me several departments were against the creation of my job. They made year one hell until I won them over.

      My job was not defined until year two. I felt like a miserable failure.

      Things really picked up in year 2. By year 3 it’s my favorite job ever!

      The bosses are great it was just a chaotic time for me to start!

      1. BittersweetCharity*

        You are incredibly persistent!

        Congratulations on not only surviving but truly thriving in an inhospitable environment.

    44. MLiz*

      My first job out of grad school, my first day was a Friday, because that was the first of the month. I arrived at 9 am sharp, only the admin was there and looked at me and asked what I was doing there.
      I said I was the new RA and today was my first day and I was supposed to meet Mr. COO. Turned out Mr. COO was not there yet. Ok. Waited about an hour, got toured by the CEO’s assistant, but really it was a tiny company (in the office were 6 people plus me) until Mr. COO arrived. Mr. COO talked to me like 10 minutes, said he had a meeting. Other people arrived who were also in that meeting.
      That meeting lasted until 2 pm, and I was alone in the upstairs office in that time. No computer login credentials, nothing. So I sat on my hands. I ate some nuts, because no one told me how lunch worked.
      At 2 pm Mr. COO and everyone else comes in and then everyone elves basically vanishes. Mr. CEO says hello and vanishes to his office. Mr. COO goes to lunch with some others, doesn’t take me along. They return and I get my computer credentials (yay!). But then Mr. COO is busy, and he’s the only one who had even a partial familiarity with what my job would even be. At 5 pm he comes in and says he’s going home now and when I asked what I was to do he said I could go too.

      That was my first day. I was about to move to that city, where I knew approximately three people and where I had never wanted to go (I was desperate for work, I’d been unemployed for over a year at that point). I hadn’t moved YET, so I went to the station (I had just missed the train, of course with Mr. COO’s timing) crying the whole time, crying on the 4 h train ride home and telling my best friend via text that I hated it and never wanted to go back. They were NOT sympathetic.

      That’s when I learned that dream jobs really don’t exist.

      That job was a lot of learning on the fly and winging it and getting by on the seat of my pants. I was laid off a year later. By now the company doesn’t exist anymore.

    45. Almost Violet Miller*

      Not horrible but not great either.
      I moved abroad from country A to country B for this specific job. The management was based in country C so I was flown there from B on my very first day for what they called induction week. It was already Wednesday.
      Turned out that my boss and the other manager I was supposed to work with are in country B on meetings and picking up my computer.
      I got to spend with them about 1.5 days that was enough for… nothing. So disorganised!

    46. Windchime*

      My worst onboarding story is from a telemarketing job I had back in the early 1980’s. I couldn’t find a job and so I took an awful telemarketing job selling storm windows or screens or something. And it was a split shift; I would have to work 4 hours in the morning, leave for 8 hours, and then work 4 more hours in the evening. So I show up for the first day and am given a script and several phone book pages of people to call. There was also a brief explanation of how I was supposed to mark each number I called with different symbols indicating that I had reached someone, or left a message, or it was busy–whatever. Apparently someone on a different shift would go through my list and, based on my symbols, call people again.

      Well, apparently I marked it up wrong and people got multiple calls. So I got in trouble for that when I returned to the evening shift. After the chastising was over, I started calling again and called some poor woman who had obviously been crying. She hung up on me. I finished that shift but never went back (and never got paid). It was horrible.

    47. Cedrus Libani*

      This wasn’t me, fortunately, but we had someone become a legend within an hour of arrival.

      The new guy was being shown around the building. There was a small room, about the size of a walk-in closet, packed with several million dollars’ worth of delicate electronics. There had once been a sink in this room, but it had been removed, leaving a pipe sticking out of the wall. Also, the room was kept dark, because light messed with the measurements…

      Yes, the new guy bumped into the pipe, snapping it right off. Suddenly, there was a geyser of water coming out of the wall, right in the middle of a confined space packed with electronics.

      The whole floor came running. We organized ourselves into bucket brigades – the water filled a standard desk-sized wastebasket every two seconds or so, we passed them down the line to the (overloaded) sinks, and to whatever other receptacles we could find. Any instrument light enough to move got put on a shelf; we made a makeshift dam around the rest, using coats, shirts, and rolls of TP. This went on for about fifteen minutes, until Facilities managed to shut off the water to the building. It was a spectacle.

      Obviously, new guy was never allowed to forget this. It wasn’t his fault, and there were no hard feelings, but still. What a first day. (Everything was left unplugged for a week to dry; the big boss was visibly sweating it the whole week, but in the end, the damage was minimal.)

    48. Bug Planet*

      I once started a new job where they were VERY unprepared for me.

      My immediate supervisor wasn’t there when I arrived, I had no desk, no chair, no computer…nothing. They’d had four weeks to prepare. FOUR WEEKS.

      The first two weeks they gave me time-wasting tasks to do, because I already had a holiday booked and they thought it pointless to give me any real work until I came back. I didn’t get an induction until months into the job. They lied about several things I neglected to get in writing.

      In retrospect, there were a number of red flags before I took the job, and I should have gone with my gut. The environment really didn’t improve so I stuck it out for an acceptable amount of time and then noped out of there.

    49. Belle di Vedremo*

      This is more unintentionally hilarious than horrible: took a holiday retail gig with a reasonably nice retailer. Watching one of the training videos, about kids clothing. Here’s the transition:
      “Remember we said that girls will be girls, well boys will be, too.”

      Still makes me laugh. Their intention was obvious, their follow through, well it’s given me a good story.

  6. Fortitude Jones*

    Now for a non-question:

    So I’m now at the end of the third week of my new job. I want to thank Artemesis for assuring me before I started that I could be a successful proposal manager as long as I really pay attention to the RFP requirements and make a thorough table of compliance. I’m assisting one of the longer term PM’s here, and she raved about how well I did with the table (she barely fills one out anymore because she said she doesn’t find it very helpful), but she did use mine in drafting her next proposal due in just a few short weeks. My new boss has also complimented me on catching things in the RFP that she didn’t think someone new would get, so I think I’ll be okay in this job after all – I was really concerned not having any prior proposal writing experience would hurt me.

    I was also nervous that I’d get to this new job and would be walking into a team that was already close and would have trouble fitting in. Oddly enough, they all treat me like I’ve always been here. It doesn’t hurt that one of my direct teammates went to the same high school I did and graduated two years behind me (we never knew each other then), I have a similar background to my boss and have similar tastes in TV shows as her and the before mentioned colleague, I share a Starbucks and fashion obsession with another, a celiac diagnosis with another (yay, I’m no longer the only one with a weird disease!), an editorial and horror writing background with another, and a love of thrifting and consigning with another. I’m not totally in love yet – still exercising cautious optimism as it’s easy for people to be on their best behavior for the first couple of weeks of a new hire’s tenure – but so far, I like the environment I moved to.

    There is one problem, though, and that’s my grandboss. I’m not sure I like him – he’s already rubbed me the wrong way twice. The first time was when he asked my boss to ask me to travel with one of my teammates to one of our locations out of state a couple of weeks into me being here. I would have been fine with that any other time, but I no longer have insurance and won’t have any again until the first of the year. I told my manager that I have no problem traveling during this job, but I don’t feel comfortable doing it while uninsured, and she said she understood – it’s never mandatory for us to travel, it’s just encouraged so we can get a better feel for our field operations when writing about them come contract renewal time. She told grandboss I said no due to the lack of insurance, and for the rest of the week leading up to the trip, he kept making passive aggressive statements about how I was missing out on a great training opportunity and when I once again reminded him that I have no insurance, his response was, “You’re not going to get sick or injured out there.”

    Dude, you have zero way of knowing that. I come from the insurance field where I’ve personally seen people become injured or sick at work or just in their day-to-day lives when they had no personal insurance and were relying on our crappy commercial insurance to cover their medical expenses (which could take some time). I also saw that same issue on the property side as well. Because of this, I don’t do risk like that – if I did in fact defy the odds and got sick/injured, I’d have no money to pay for the bills out of pocket (a long-term chronic illness I didn’t realize I had caused me to blow through my HSA this year). Then I’d be forced to file a workers’ comp claim, which would increase their premiums. This was not a smart thing to suggest or say knowing my background.

    Then the next annoyance happened yesterday when I overheard him talking to some coworkers about how glad he was the tax reform bill passed. I’m a strong believer that you do not discuss politics, money, religion, and sex in mixed company – you have no idea whether your audience agrees with your ideological beliefs or not, and you could be putting people in an awkward situation they have no way out of. I heard one of my coworkers point out to him that while, yes, her tax bracket will be going down in the short term, in the long-term it will go back up. He then proceeded to dismiss her very accurate statement by insisting she pay close attention to her paychecks next year and tell him that she doesn’t like having more money in her pocket. She didn’t respond, and I was annoyed on her behalf because of course she’s not going to stand there and argue with grandboss about his short-sighted viewpoint. His director-level position makes it so that those lower than him on the org chart might not feel confident speaking up and out against him, and he should know better.

    I have a feeling I’m not going to like this guy at all, and that’s a shame because most everything else about the job is good (so far). I’m going to keep my eye on him and the things he does or says, and if I don’t like what I see, it’ll be on to the next.

    1. Sloane Kittering*

      If I were you, I would *not* start keeping a list of reasons to dislike your grandboss. You have zero power in that scenario and it doesn’t benefit you at all. Agree the insurance thing is annoying but I’d try to let it roll off my back.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        I wasn’t talking about keeping a list of reasons to dislike anyone – what I meant was, keeping alert to anymore odd or offputing incidents so as to not be blindsided.

    2. Mel C*

      In one ear and out the other. As long as your direct boss is a good one and understanding of your request to not travel (it seems like she was), don’t worry about what grandboss says – just smile and shrug. As for everything else he says that might rub you the wrong way, ditto! Put it out of your mind. Just think of it as: we’re all allowed a point of view and it’s fine for him to have (a wrong) one :-)

      Obviously, if he starts discussing OTHER points of view, like not liking a certain protected class of individuals, or making sexually graphic remarks, that’s a whole different animal. But having different political views is normal – just let it go.

        1. Foxtrot*

          For a blog that has nothing to do with politics, why are we going down the road of discussing whose opinions are right or wrong? Especially on a question asking how to keep political discussions out of non political situations?

    3. Samata*

      I’d say to let these things roll of your back – I agree that the talking politics and insurance thing are annoying. Especially since he wouldn’t let the insurance thing go…

      But if he had been spouting a political view you agreed with would you be as annoyed? And turning down a request from big boss to go to a recommended training (for whatever the reason) so early into a job can be a little alarming to some since so few people do it. I understand your reasons and don’t think you should have to risk anything to go, that is not what I am saying AT ALL.

      I guess all I’m really saying is if you let this guys’ quirks let you down when it sounds like you enjoy your job and he’s not making it hard for you to do your actual job it’s going to take up a lot of mental energy and end up ruining what sounds like an otherwise promising career move.

      I have to actively talk myself down from annoying co-workers at times, I get it’s not always easy. But my life and job are so much more enjoyable when I just acknowledge it and then throw it away.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        But if he had been spouting a political view you agreed with would you be as annoyed?

        Yes, because politics period is not an appropriate conversation for a workplace that doesn’t have anything to do with politics. And I think you misunderstood about the travel – it’s not mandatory, and most of the people on my team didn’t do it when they were new hires. That’s why my direct boss didn’t care (and I did end up going on a local site visit with one of my longer term teammates yesterday).

        1. Samata*

          I didn’t say it was mandatory – I said it was recommended, which I got the impression from above. And I didn’t say his response was the right one, either, I just said it might have thrown him for a loop because people usually don’t say “no” to the big boss a few weeks in and he reacted poorly.

          And your reply to Mel C highlighting whim being wrong and your defensive comment back to me and Sloane makes me think you want vindication for disliking him & his political views, not advice on how to deal with him and still enjoy all the great aspects of a job you work hardly to get and seem to otherwise enjoy.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            No, I was merely pointing out that I thought there was a misunderstanding in what was gathered from what I wrote – there was nothing defensive in either of my responses, just correcting what I perceived to be a lack of clarity in the conversation. Have a nice day.

    4. MissGirl*

      Your comment about being on to the next job is concerning. Nothing he’s done is really awful albeit annoying, and it’s common to work with people you really don’t like. I agree with Sloane. Don’t look for things that annoy you. Do your work well and pick your battles.

    5. Jules the First*

      Welcome to proposal management – sounds like you’ll fit in just fine!

      As someone who has worked for a long line of absolutely bonkers bosses (from the whimsical to the physically abusive and just about everything in between), take it from me that you can cope with almost anything from your grandboss when your actual boss is good – and it sounds like yours is.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        She really is very sweet. And I’m heartened by the fact that everyone in the department loves her. Like, they all come to her for advice and they all tell me she’s a great mentor. I like her a lot – she reminds me of a few of my favorite former bosses.

  7. Anom*

    Lately I’ve been daydreaming about getting laid off from my job so I can relax and pursue other things guilt-free. I’m talking to a career counsellor now and trying to focus on coming up with a proper exit strategy. But each day I think I edge closer to flaming out spectacularly. Anyone ever take a leave of absence from work to pursue something else? What did you do? Did you come back to your job afterwards? How did you find the overall experience.

    1. Foreign Octopus*

      I didn’t so much as take a leave of absence as quit and book a ticket to Spain in one memorable afternoon after I reached the end of my tether, so I can’t speak to returning to work afterwards.

      However, I will tell you that I haven’t regretted my choice. It was very spontaneous. I had no back up plan. No real plans, but I am just so much happier and healthier now that I’m not working in a job that made me cry in the morning when I woke up. I’m not making as much money as I was before but my quality of life has improved.

      I now teach English as a Foreign Language (predominantly online) and I work fewer hours – about 20-25 a week – but I still earn more than enough to cover everything I need to and have fun on the side. It’s also allowed me to learn a foreign language (Spanish, since I’m in Spain) and focus on writing.

      I feel like a completely different person to who I was when I was working in my job in the UK. I don’t recognise that person and I really feel that the person I am now, today, is the person I’ve imagined myself being all along.

      So, I really recommend going for it.

      1. Anom*

        I teach English now. I’ve thought of going somewhere (my passion is Italy but I’d settle for South Korea or Spain) and I’m actually thinking of taking a leave of absence this summer to do a summer camp somewhere in Europe. My biggest fear is obviously long term financial stability. How much do you manage to save each month, if you don’t mind me asking? And do you have a long term plan for affording things like kids and a house? Just venting some of the stuff that keeps me up at night.

        1. Foreign Octopus*

          Hi! I don’t mind you asking at all.

          Right now, I’m not actually saving, but that’s only because I had an unexpected (and very large) vet’s bill that came up that I had to pay for. Normally, I could put away anywhere between €100-€200 a month depending on what I want to do in a month. I always save €100 when my cat doesn’t bleed me dry.

          As for long term planning, I don’t want children so I can scratch that off the list right away. I do, however, want a house with a garden at some point. This is a little more difficult because buying in Spain as a foreigner means shouldering a lot of extra costs. My long-term plan for this is to wait until I become a resident (after 5 years) or a citizen (after 10 years). I’m in no hurry though as I’m only 27 and it’s very, very typical for people in Spain to rent for the majority of their lives. They don’t have the same outlook towards house ownership that British and American people do.

          And regarding financial stability, it takes about two years to really feel comfortable with what you’re earning and finding your right footing. However, English teaching is an industry where you’re never going to be out of work. There is always, always someone who wants to learn English, particularly from a native speaker. I can get anywhere from between €20-€25 an hour for an in-person lesson, and they often pay cash in hand.

          I did know of one woman from the Netherlands who was paying €60 an hour for online Skype lessons before she found my brother who only charges her €20. She’s an outlying example but it gives you an idea of how far people are willing to go for English.

          I really recommend that, if you do this, you go somewhere you’re passionate about. You’ll enjoy it so much more if you’re in the right surroundings and Italy is amazing (but, then again, so is Spain).

          I hope this helped :)

    3. hopeful EMT*

      I used to dream about being fired, even though I needed the paycheck to pay rent. I changed jobs, but after about 8 months the new job changed a bunch of policies and I was back to the “fine, fire me” attitude. Last summer my husband was offered a much better paying job, and I quit my job to go back to school to pursue my dream of joining EMS. I just finished school and still need to get certified and get a job, so I might be feeling differently about this decision 6 months down the road, but right now I feel like it’s one of the best things I ever did. I’m so much happier. I did some on the job training as part of school and loved it. I can’t wait to start in this new field. I never want to go back to what I used to do. And the best thing was my school was very part time, so I have had lots of time to just take care of me and love on my cats. It’s hard living off of one income, but I’m thankful I’ve had the chance to focus on me and what I want to do with my life.

      1. Anom*

        That’s cool to hear you pursuing your dreams. I thought of going back to school but I don’t really know what I want to be doing. It’s only me so I don’t have another income, although if I needed to I could live pretty frugally and I’m still in the same city as my family (although moving back in is only slightly above living in my car). I know I need a change and I’d like that change to involve several months of unstructured free time. My issue is what comes after that.

    4. yup*

      I had this happen to me 5+ years ago. I traveled, a lot… Moved to a new city where I knew 0 people (no job, just showed up) and just focused on myself. IT WAS AMAZING! I grew so much as an individual. I was terrified of what future employers would think of me, but for each person that judged me, there were multiple people who either respected me for it, did something similar or wish they had…. I have historically been a “Type A” personality and for the first time, I learned to live….

      Here is the deal… Money matters, a lot. I have always been a good saver and had close to $30k in the bank when I started, plus about $1,200/ month coming in through UI. I had no ongoing expenses and my parents were generous to keep me on their health insurance (I was under 26 at the time). Whatever time you plan to be out of work, double it and plan accordingly. However much money you think you will need during that time, double it and plan accordingly… Come up with a list of backup plans if you have $0 in the bank at the end of this journey. Can you borrow money from parents? Friends? Crash on someone’s couch? What about health insurance? Are you eligible to be on your parents? Do you need to research the marketplace? What other expenses will you have if you practice minimalism for 6 months? Cell phone? Car payment?

      Once you answer all of these questions, you can come up with a plan… Figure out what you want to do, how much it is going to cost and enjoy life.

      Good luck!

      1. Anom*

        Thanks for talking about the money part. I have about 30k saved up, half of that is my emergency fund so it’s in cash. No stable income if I quit my job although I have taught English online for a while and could probably earn about $1000/month, plus $500 from a personal loan that is being repaid to me. I’m Canadian so no worries about health insurance if I stay in Canada, but hopefully I can get some travellers insurance for relatively cheap if I leave. I’m really interested in going to Italy although I don’t speak the language.

        How did you plan to go? Were you laid off (I’m assuming yes with the mention of UI)? What kind of work were you doing, and did you find another job in the same industry? And what did you focus on other than traveling? Did you do any online courses or side projects? Or was it mostly focusing on yourself.

        1. yup*

          I was laid off… I was thinking about doing something like that for quite a few months anyway, and then… BAM, no job and I decided it was the world’s way of telling me it was time to go. Admittedly, I am not sure that I would have had the guts to actually quit a the time, but luckily, I didn’t need to.

          I lost my job around March and I didn’t actively start job searching until around August…. I was working in nonprofit – I got quite a few interviews within the nonprofit sector but ultimately changed fields. I started a new job in December that year.

          A lot of what I did was traveling. Go to Italy! You will meet so many English speakers, learn to communicate in languages you don’t speak and it will be so empowering. Also – there are TONS of Canadians traveling through Europe. I could not believe how much more relaxed Canadians are compared to Americans when it comes to travel and taking breaks. One day I was waiting for a shuttle to a hostel in Italy, there were 9 of us… Everyone was Canadian except me….

          The option for online classes wasn’t as prevalent as it is now. I found a lot of free courses through the library. I took a lot of business planning courses. I also volunteered a lot.

          Above all else, I learned to challenge what society expects of me and ask myself “Is this what I want out of life, or what someone else wants for me?”

          If you have around $30k saved up, it sounds like you are pretty financially savvy. I consider myself good with money, but I have definitely made random purchases that I regret. Not one of them has been related to something travel… NOT ONE….

          1. Specialk9*

            “I could not believe how much more relaxed Canadians are compared to Americans when it comes to travel and taking breaks.”

            Funny how being paid to take lots and lots of leave translates to traveling more and being more relaxed. It almost seems like someone should do a study. :D

    5. Bea W*

      I did this over the summer. My job was so toxic I decided it was best for my mental and physical health to just leave and take a break since I hadn’t yet found another job. I was also feeling unsure what I wanted to do with my career, stick with what I was doing or do something different.

      I went back to work at a new job in the same field a few months later. About 2 months in I figured out for myself that I don’t want to be where I am. I don’t want to be chained to a desk 40+ hours a week. I want time to pursue other interests, and possibly make a career change in the future or do half my current job (because it pays well) and half something else. I decided to work at my day job consulting part time so that I have income coming in while I figure it out. I have not made that transition yet, but am in the process of setting that up so that I can do it next year.

      I am really glad I took that time. I needed it in general, and it did show me that some of my health issues were work/lifestyle related and making the right changes could drastically improve my quality of life. Going back to work in a similar position after the break has been a very informative experience for me in terms of figuring out what I am going to do next and also in giving me a enough courage to take the risk of pursuing a life change.

    6. Traveling Teacher*

      To comment on the money side of things: Please, please, please don’t undersell your hours. If you are a certified teacher, there’s no reason you should charge less than 30-40 euros an hour, at minimum. Once you become specialized in a tutoring sector, you can start increasing those fees, too. Don’t be fooled into taking less because you accept cash or because you believe you’ll make more if you don’t report it as income. Besides being illegal, it will stand in the way of being able to afford a house, have kids, etc. (Not that you’ve said anything of the kind yourself, but I’ve often had to correct incorrect assumptions about this, mostly from Americans who have moved to my country. I see that you’re Canadian, though, so hopefully this is all just old news to you! To all others interested in similar work, the following is both my personal experience and also what is required by the law of my country).

      I had my own tutoring business for a number of years and was able to prove my income when buying a house precisely because I had contracts–even for private clients, reported all income, and charged a good rate for my services. What you have to offer as a certified teacher is valuable, and there is plenty of room for you to charge decent rates, particularly if you are travelling to people’s homes (many European countries have a way to subsidize workers you bring to your own home; in mine, the private employer ends up getting back 50 percent of your fee as a tax break. But only if they can legally employ you, not when they undercut the social security system and pay you “on the black [market], as it’s called here).

      As far as children goes, I made enough money in each calendar year to be able to take a full, paid maternity leave and also get paid to “reduce” my hours in the three months leading up to childbirth. That’s a total of about 13,000 euros right there, all because I reported my income and paid my taxes. Plus, I receive a small, ongoing monthly stipend until my child is three. If I ever would have been unable to work because of long-term injury, I would have been able to claim that under the law and either receive disability status or retraining, all subsidized. Also, even if I had only made a very small amount (I believe less than 1,500 euros in the calendar year preceding the birth) I would still have been eligible for about half of what I received as the full payment. This, to me, far outweighs any perceived benefit of working illegally/not reporting all earned income.

      1. Specialk9*

        What’s a full paid maternity leave in your world? I know someone who was back to work the same week, I took 3 months, my Canadian counterparts took a flippin year.

    8. Cedrus Libani*

      I took a gap year after my PhD. I didn’t even really plan to; I was burned out, in no uncertain terms. But I got a chance to travel, and write, and read, and learn stuff that interested me. When the thought of applying for jobs in my field no longer made me want to hide under the bed, I put myself on the market.

      I was pretty surprised by how not-a-big-deal it was. Oh, you graduated a year ago? Yep, I went out and had my fun, now I’m back. I thought I’d get the third degree, but people accepted it basically without comment. Not sure it was just selection bias, either; there were definitely a few interviewers who hadn’t processed the dates until I pointed them out.

      If you’re going to do it, I would suggest having a plan. It’s amazing how life can expand to fill the days when you don’t plan. No regrets, exactly…but I definitely could’ve made better use of that time.

      (Disclaimer: I’ve got highly marketable skills, personal savings in the mid five figures, and a partner who could easily support us both if needed. Adjust your risk tolerance as necessary.)

  8. Fabulous*

    I have the next 10 days off work. This includes holidays and the weekends, but it’s the longest time I’ve had off in a long time, so woohoo!

      1. Bostonian*

        Ditto. I’m justifying my slack-off-ishness with the fact that I still have one unused vacation day…

    6. esra (also a Canadian)*

      Ugh same. I have a list of things I want to get done, but also my sofa and Murder, She Wrote streaming exists soooooooo

      1. Atlantic Toast Conference*

        Uh, random interjection here, but what service are you using to stream Murder She Wrote? I haven’t been able to get my fix since it left Netflix last year!

    7. Purplesaurus*

      Me too! And I’m almost the only one in the office today, so even being at work right now is pretty nice.

    8. JD*

      Me too! Only to find out I need to change my entire accounting system in my company I co-own before the new year. Insert angry face. Sigh, at least that is mindless work I can do in front of the tv.

    9. sheworkshardforthemoney*

      Me too! For the first time in years I have 2 weeks off. It’s a university so I don’t have to think about work until 2018. :) First thing: Netflix and pajamas!

    10. periwinkle*

      Our break started today! I got home from work yesterday, feeling energized enough to cross a bunch of to-do list items off. Will I keep up the momentum? Probably not. Since I had to use up a lot of vacation time for not-fun reasons, this is my first relaxation-oriented time off since the last winter break. I’m not inclined to spend this time vacuuming…

      (on the other hand, ugh, I really need to vacuum)

    11. Overeducated*

      Me too! Today through Jan. 1. It’s the longest break I’ve had since starting my job a year and a half ago.

      Going to spend it on a merry go round of visiting four different homes of relatives though! Maybe next year if we’re both in new jobs like we’re hoping, we can plead “not much leave” and relax at home…

    12. Rainy*

      I took off almost 2 weeks, starting yesterday, and promptly got sick. :( I’m on the sofa in jammies watching House Hunters while my fiance makes me spicy loco moco for lunch.

    13. Sparkly Librarian*

      Me too! 11 days, even! This may be the first time in my working life that I’ve had a full week of vacation.

  9. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

    Last month I emailed a former boss with a general social update and also asking him if he’d be willing to be a reference for me. No response. I’m going in to that ex-job sometime soon (it’s a nonprofit and we’re donating), and there’s a good chance that I’ll see ex-boss there. I don’t *think* he’s being a jerk to me because he always seemed to really like me and was happy for me when I left (for school)–maybe I somehow wound up in his spam folder? Is it okay to ask him again or mention my email or anything? If so, any scripts for what to say would be very much appreciated. I really really really need another reference.

      1. AshK434*

        Read receipts are annoying and seem passive aggressive to me. I’m bad with scripts but if you see him when you go into the old job, I would casually mention your job hunt and then just ask if he’d be willing to act as a reference.

      2. Jadelyn*

        Please don’t use a read receipt – that just screams “I don’t trust you and I think you’re ignoring me, so I’m trying to force you to respond and/or document that you didn’t respond.”

        Just mention it to him casually that you’re job searching and ask if he got your email directly – much cleaner and less passive-aggressive than using a read receipt.

    2. Adlib*

      I think it would be fine to bring it up if you’re chatting with him already. People sometimes forget to answer emails, especially if they get busy. I don’t really have any scripts, but you could just ask him if he got the email if, as you said, it got lost. That way, the same question will bring it up in his mind if he did read it so he can let you know an answer one way or the other.

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      You’re over thinking.
      “Hey old boss, I’m looking at some new positions, can I still count on you for a reference?”
      Then go on to catch up on other things.

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        No still–I left the job recently, and he’s never agreed to be a reference. (I suspect he would be happy to be a reference, but I didn’t ask him before I left and he never replied to my email.)

    4. Lumen*

      Definitely ask! What’s the worst that could happen? He cringes awkwardly because he doesn’t want to give you a reference? (In which case: it was rude of him to ignore your email rather than just saying so.)

      That’s also probably UNLIKELY. So bring it up, and discover that he just lost it in his spam folder, or has been really busy, or isn’t sure what to write. Or… he didn’t notice the request for a reference amidst the social update.

  10. Sunflower*

    I’ve been at my new job for 6 months. Everything is going well, my supervisors have trained me well and are very open when I have questions, and seem supportive for development. The issue is something I realized with higher ups at the holiday party and other social events. They are all sort of catty in a cruel way. They spent time gossiping at these events, and it is beyond normal work gossip. It is like, going after people for their appearance, including people below them. I assume they talk about about me this way if they talk about others this way. They are also weirdly adverse to anything ‘awkward’ and complain a lot of an interaction was awkward or event. (I think that life and work are just awkward and roll with it). I usually ignore and don’t add to the conversation. I’m not sure what to think about this, mostly because I like my job otherwise. When they are in work mode everything is fine, but I can’t help but wonder if this will negatively impact me. I think they are good managers but crappy people? What does everyone else think?

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      I think that sort of thing does end up impacting the work, even if it’s indirect. How in the world could employees feel valued and respected if they overhear management making fun of other employees?

      1. Specialk9*

        Oh yeah. Every one of my good managers has treated people with respect. It’s really not possible to be fair or empowering without respect.

    2. Adlib*

      This does not make them good managers either, to be honest. That’s seriously unprofessional no matter what. I’ve heard of managers doing this in situations I’ve seen, and it seriously cuts down on morale. So yes, I think it will eventually impact you if it hasn’t already. I mean, how can they hold opinions on others like that and then not let it affect their treatment of employees? Not okay.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Your supervisors are okay but the higher ups are not? I hope I am reading this right. Upper management needs to show stability and sure-footedness. I agree you may have a problem. Give it six more months, see how things develop. Watch who leaves, this might tell you a lot or it might tell you nothing.

      Just my belief based on what I have seen, I believe that good people can be crappy managers, but very seldom do crappy people become good managers. Managers have to have something at their core, a moral compass, a sense of purpose, or a sense of responsibility to the people below them. Scorning, ridiculing, and nitpicking are core symptoms that can leach over into how they manage people. If you haven’t got some kind of core guide in place, you cannot fake having that guide for very long. It seeps into your work and how you carry yourself at work.

    4. Marthooh*

      Are the catty higher-ups mostly about the same age? Maybe they were all impressionable twenty-somethings back when “Awk-ward!” was the cool buzzword. And maybe they’ve never quite grown up.

    5. Engineer Girl*

      Crappy people are always bad managers. You just haven’t annoyed them enough yet to be targeted by their malice.

  11. Matilda Jefferies*

    Just wanted to send a shout-out to everyone whose work doesn’t slow down at this time of year. Emergency services, health care, transportation, retail, and anyone else who keeps us healthy and safe, or helps us get ready for the holidays. Thanks for all you do!

    4. Goya de la Mancha*

      +1

      And to their families who celebrate the holidays different because of their schedules (maybe “Santa” comes on the 26th in their house).

    6. Mazzy*

      Ha ha I’m in financial role and never have downtimes and I have lots of bored people in the office that I’m fighting off today. I don’t have time for chit chat! Just letting a huge report run now that’s my break

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        Yep, me too. My work involves bugging other people to do admin work – which means that most of them wait until it slows down for them at year end, and then it all gets dumped on my desk at the last possible minute!

        I always feel a bit sorry for myself as things heat up for me just as they’re cooling down for everyone else, but then I remember that there are people out there saving lives and such, who probably don’t feel a lot of sympathy for my paperwork. :)

      2. NW Mossy*

        I manage a team of financial services analysts who are scrambling to do all those “have to post by the end of the calendar year!” activities, right as the requesters of said activities are heading out the door for the holidays. It’s definitely hard when work and personal busy seasons collide!

      3. knitcrazybooknut*

        Yep, payroll over here. Year end can bite me. And everyone’s always saying, oh, it’ll slow down and you can take a break! HA HA HA FOREVER argh. So many system updates, new files for benefits starting 1/1, new rates to enter, audit reports, minimum wage changes. Plus holidays make for tight payroll deadlines.

        But I’m always thinking of EMTs, police officers, hospital employees, 9-1-1 dispatchers, and anyone else in danger of getting more injury than a paper cut. I appreciate them more than I can say.

    9. anon24*

      And UPS, USPS, and Fedex employees, who work long hours to ensure that socially anxious people like me can get their Christmas shopping done without having to leave their homes! They are my heroes this holiday season!

      1. FedEx Holiday Widow*

        As the (newish… this is our first holiday season together) spouse of FedEx Express employee, Christmas has taken on new meaning: really early starts, really late nights, long drives to meet my wife for her half hour lunch break that she finally manages to take 11 hours after her day began and much more patience for any package to arrive than ever before :)

        Please make sure your house numbers are visible in the dark and thank you for helping to keep my wife and all the delivery people employed!

  12. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

    Receptionists/admins/assistants/front desk people: What kind of things to you keep on hand for emergencies? Not necessarily life or death emergencies, but more like “Do you have deodorant back there? I forgot mine.”

    1. DivineMissL*

      These are the things that I’m frequently asked for:
      Tylenol/Advil
      Small screwdrivers (flat and phillips) – you’d be surprised how frequently these are needed
      White glue and hot glue gun
      Emery board
      Safety pins
      Hand sanitizer/baby wipes
      Band-aids
      Hand cream
      Plastic forks

      1. CG*

        Agree with the above, and would add pepto tabs for stomachaches and napkins/Kleenex.

        I would be a bit squicked out if someone asked me for deodorant…

        1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

          I bought spray deodorant for a wedding, brought it to work for my own personal use, but it has been handy for other people as well! Stick deodorant is not really shareable.

        2. Ann Furthermore*

          LOL. A couple weeks ago I traveled to a client site to do some training for them, and on the first morning I realized I’d gotten away from home without any deodorant. The hotel did not have a gift shop, and I didn’t have time to try and find a CVS or something before I had to be at the office, so I had to risk it. Thankfully since it was December, and chilly, I made it through the day OK (although I did take a few extra bathroom breaks to run to the ladies room to give myself a sniff test).

          Anyway, the person I was working with there was showing me around, and stopped into the “market” on our way back up to her desk. It’s a secured area that’s basically a little convenience store with snacks, drinks, personal items, batteries, etc, with a self-checkout machine to pay for your items. We were chatting and she said she’d forgotten to put on deodorant one morning, and was so glad to be able to run down there and buy some. I was seriously considering grabbing some for myself, but I couldn’t bring myself to do it with the client right there. As soon as we were done for the day I high-tailed it to the drug store.

          OP, you could get some single-application deodorant wipes to keep in your emergency stash, and someday, you would probably be someone’s personal hero. It would be weird and gross to just have a community deodorant for people to use (OMG, the mental picture of that is making me laugh and recoil at the same time) but you could discreetly hand someone a deodorant wipe and direct them to the restroom.

          1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

            I didn’t even know deodorant wipes were a thing! Also didn’t know about Dust Bunny’s hand-sanitizer-as-deodorant life hack. Thank you for the tips!

          2. Specialk9*

            Trick of the trade, hand sanitizer under your arms (on the skin or also on the clothes depending on level of smell). It kills the stink germs and most brands have mild scent. It isn’t antiperspirant but kills BO in the short run.

            Also keep an eye out for baking powder or baby powder.

            1. Marthooh*

              Somebody (Phyllis Diller maybe?) once recommended sticking a bay leaf under each arm if you run out of deodorant. You’ll still smell, but like soup instead of sweat.

      2. Kimberlee, Esq.*

        I would add nail clippers to the list! Additionally, scissors (for some reason, at my office, scissors are ALWAYS getting taken and we’re always short on them) and Sharpies. Oh, and a non-NSAID painkiller is good to have on hand; some people can’t take NSAIDS at all so some diversity of painkiller is nice. Also, some generic Claratin and/or Benedryl, for allergy sufferers. Floss, and if you’re feeling ambitious a spare (new, obvs) toothbrush and lil travel toothpaste. I keep paper plates on hand cause they get used up and some delivery places around here don’t include them on catering orders.

        Also, some ppl are balking at the idea of keeping deodorant, which I don’t understand at all. You can wipe it off! I have shared deo with co-workers and it was fine. I can understand if an individual doesn’t want to do that for themselves, but please don’t make that decision for others, some of us love having that emergency deo option! (plus, the first person who uses it will get to use it brand new, anyway).

        I have a friend who used to keep an emergency gin & tonic kit in her desk (some mini gin bottles with small tonic bottles and plastic cups). YMMV. :)

      3. nep*

        I asked our office manager and another female colleague one day whether one of them had a panty liner or mini-pad. Office manager directed me to middle drawer on the right: Ziploc bag of all manner of feminine products — tampons, pads of all sizes…I think there was even a bottle of Midol in there.
        I always like to have a tweezers and eyeglass repair kit handy.

    2. Matilda Jefferies*

      I think I would start by drawing a bright line between what’s part of your job and what isn’t. It’s too easy to get taken advantage of, if you’re the person who always has the ibuprofen and the bandages and the sewing kit to share!

      If you’re an EA, for example, and part of your job includes making sure that your boss is physically presentable for meetings and so on, then maybe a small sewing kit (with safety pins), a lint brush, and a Tide to Go pen or similar. Deodorant feels a bit personal for me, but YMMV depending on your job.

      But if you’re a receptionist, it’s probably more of a “nice to have” than a “need to have,” and you could stock only what you need for yourself. At my desk, I have deodorant (just for me!), toothbrush & toothpaste, some emergency tampons, ibuprofen, and a nail file. I will definitely give someone a tampon or some Advil if they need it, but I would bristle a bit at the suggestion that it’s expected of me. So I would really suggest you find out what the actual expectations are, and go from there. Good luck!

    3. Dust Bunny*

      You can deodorize your pits in a pinch with hand sanitizer.

      Otherwise . . . I don’t. There are band-aids, tweezers, etc. in the first aid kits and my assistant duties don’t extend to personal grooming (exception: I give a woman a sanitary pad out of my personal stash because that’s pretty much the worst kind of being caught up short). I can direct you to the nearest grocery or drug store if you’re desperate. For the most part, though, all my stuff is office supplies, and even those are mostly on the supply shelves where anyone can get them.

      1. Dust Bunny*

        Tools are also on the supply shelves. There are some utensils in the kitchenette or break room. We’re not supposed to use hand cream (handling antique documents). I *sometimes* have ibuprofen and will give you one if you’re an established coworker, but it’s out of my own purse, and if you keep asking I’ll tell you I’m out and you need to go buy your own.

    4. Fabulous*

      A link in my necklace broke recently at work and couldn’t find a pair of needle nose pliers to fix it. So add that to your list too!

    5. Ann O'Nemity*

      My company recently started putting hospitality baskets in the restrooms and it’s so awesome. I can’t imagine it costs much to stock these, but our employees have been really grateful.

        1. Ann O'Nemity*

          The women’s restroom baskets have feminine products, hairspray, spray deodorant, hair ties and clips, body spray, lotion, and probably some other stuff I’m forgetting. I know the men’s room has baskets too but I’m not sure what’s in there.

    6. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

      Even though I don’t need them anymore, sanitary products. It’s surprising how often someone has an emergency and no stock on hand.

    7. Ann Furthermore*

      Feminine hygiene items would be a lifesaver for someone who really needed them. Nothing like rooting around in your purse trying to find change for the machines in the ladies room and realizing you don’t have any! Been there. And tweezers.

    8. Morning Glory*

      I am not sure whether you were thinking of this or not – but do not pay for any of this with your own money.

      Some extra supplies that I keep on hand that the organization pays for:
      -Tissues
      -Cough drops
      -Napkins/plasticware/paper cups
      -Small notepads
      -Extra staples
      -Post-it notes
      -Band-Aids/first aid kit

    9. Mary (in PA)*

      All of these, plus cough drops and dental floss picks. I call it “The Drawer of Personal Emergency.”

    10. Cereal killer*

      Dental floss. Always a nightmare when you are heading into a meeting with some thing stuck in your teeth and no way to get it out!

    11. DaniCalifornia*

      A change of clothes in my car. Not my most expensive outfit, but a full change of office clothes (maybe something I don’t wear often) but a FULL change. In case of spills or rain or just a bad accident. Going home is feasible to me but if I can avoid it or sitting in some kind of wet clothes I will.

      Old towels. I don’t know how many times old towels have saved the day from accidentally flooding or a huge spill that paper towels just wont do it for. And a huge garbage bag to bag it up so it won’t keep the office or my trunk smelly.

      Nail clippers because I always break my nails. Lotion, some pain reliever, one quick makeup kit if needed (I normally don’t wear makeup to work but if I needed to meet a client unexpectedly)

  13. Mr. Demeanor*

    This is just a very, very, very minor question that I would never bother Allison about but just wanted to put out there. Is it considered bad form not to put anything in the subject line when sending emails or does it just not really matter? More and more I am seeing emails from all levels of my organization where they are leaving it blank. When I respond I do populate it but that is partially for my own reference and partially because I hate not having anything in the subject line.

    Happy Holidays!

    1. Anony McAnonface*

      I don’t know if it’s bad form or not, but it sounds like an organizational nightmare. Subject lines are great references and leaving them blank is strange. I’d populate them too.

    2. Roman Holiday*

      I don’t think it’s a major faux pas, but it could definitely look unprofessional. My corporate email will prompt you to enter a subject if you try to leave it blank, and although you can bypass it, most people choose to enter a subject. The trend I’m seeing more and more of is people only using the subject line to communicate something simple (eg Donuts in the Kitchen, or Delivery at the front desk), which seems like a good time saver, as long as no one minds the informality (I certainly don’t).

    3. Adlib*

      I know people (managers) in my company who write entire sentences in subject lines, so it’s pretty much the opposite of what you experience. Yes, I think emails should have subject lines even if people can’t think of what to put in there. You can always put SOMETHING there.

    4. Lynca*

      I think it’s bad form and it drives me up a wall. Reference is the main reason why I find it important because if it doesn’t have a title how do I know which project this is about, what problem they’re telling me about, etc.

      I’ve read ones where I couldn’t gauge what was going on because I didn’t know what project it is. And that leads to more wasted time back and forth figuring it out. When a simple header of RE: Issue Y on Project X would have let me know where to look for the resolution when I got the first email!

    5. Tara*

      I’ve not run into this, but it would annoy the crap out of me. It ruins any chance of threading emails. From most higher-ups I don’t expect a fully formed subject line, but even a word like “Update” or “New Budget” would be better than nothing. (Although of course I’d rather have more – e.g. “Project A New Budget 12222017.”)

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        +1. I consider it very poor form.

        However if you use Outlook you can edit emails and add your own subject line!

    6. Kelly L.*

      The only time I don’t is when the person already knows it’s coming and what it is. So if my boss goes “Hey, can you send me the XYZ spreadsheet real quick,” I might just send an email to him with the XYZ spreadsheet and nothing else. He already knows what’s in there. But I won’t do that if we didn’t literally just discuss it a few minutes ago.

      1. LQ*

        Yeah, this is the only time I’ve used it/had it used on me and not been bothered.

        Otherwise if it’s just a quick thing our culture is more you just put what you want in the subject line, which…I’ve grown to be fine with.

        I don’t even have to open it if the request is short enough to fit into a subject of an email (and often it’s “call me” or “come help in x room!” or whatever so I’ll just do that rather than opening it and reading it).

    7. Shiara*

      Your company is doing it wrong. It is well known that the correct subject line for all occasions is “help” with varied amounts of punctuation based on urgency.

      *glares at her inbox*

      More seriously though, I would consider it bad form to leave subject lines blank (or even just really generic), but it’s also not great to change the subject line with every reply although if the topic has drifted doing it once (and trimming the reply list) is helpful.

    8. KarenT*

      I categorize it as a minor annoyance. I find it irksome, but at the end of the day doesn’t really matter.

    9. Ann O'Nemity*

      I totally think it’s bad form to leave the subject line blank! It’s forgivable if it’s a once in a blue moon mistake on an internal email, but it’s a coaching moment if it happens frequently or on external emails.

    10. ArtK*

      I have *never*, in a very long career, had someone send an e-mail without a subject line. If someone did it would be very startling. I use the subject line to prioritize things and, if I have to open the e-mail to figure out what it’s about, I’m going to put it at the back of the queue.

    11. LCL*

      It’s considered unprofessional here because you are wasting someone else’s time. They have to open the email to figure out what it’s about.

    12. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      I HATE THIS SO MUCH THE SUBJECT IS HOW YOU DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO READ THE EMAIL AND/OR HOW YOU ORGANIZE YOUR EMAIL THIS IS MONSTROUS

      1. Jillociraptor*

        This was 100% my reaction! WHY WOULD YOU NOT PUT A SUBJECT!

        Occasionally, this happens when someone is shooting off a quick email from their phone. I get it if it’s something like that. But as a general practice? NOOOOOO.

    13. Jules the Third*

      I… can’t imagine. I’ve seen one in the last year (100+ emails / day) that didn’t have a subject, and it was so jarring. (Fortune 100 tech company interacting primarily with fortune 500 vendors)

      Emails are your headlines, a chance to catch attention and get focus. Use this power wisely.

    14. nep*

      For me subject lines are really important. Can be a big time-saver. I don’t know about bad form — but certainly not very efficient to go without.
      Something some of my colleagues do that is not a good idea: Using someone’s email to multiple people to send a mail to the same group, and not changing subject line. So I’ll get a mail that has a subject line of “Fwd: Sub needed 14 October 7pm” — but the body of the mail is about a sub needed for an entirely different date/time, or a different issue altogether.

    15. Chaordic One*

      On the one hand, it certainly is bad form to leave it blank and it really is helpful to put something about what the content of the email is in the subject line. I find that emails with blank subject lines often get sent into the spam folder.

      OTOH, please DO NOT just write “URGENT” in the subject line. Very rarely are the contents of email actually urgent and you risk coming off like Chicken Little to whomever you’ve sent the email to.

  14. hermit crab*

    Anyone want to share something good that happened at work this week?

    I’ll start: As happens from time to time, my colleague and I had an unpleasant interaction with a client (via phone). The client was downright nasty to us for no reason. (Stay with me, the story gets better.) Our senior manager was also on the call, and he totally had our back in the moment, and told us afterwards that we handled it well and shouldn’t have done anything differently. It felt really validating!

    1. Ms. Meow*

      I’ve been in my job for over 2 years, but am just now feeling like I have my feet underneath me. I led a discussion in a meeting laying out our systems for higher-ups in the company that acquired my business unit. I was feeling pretty okay about how it went. One of my coworkers stopped by the next day and said “Holy cow! You did a great job yesterday! None of the rest of us could have done a better job! Way to go!” and high-fived me (he’s just that kind of guy). It made me feel really good because it’s proof that I do know what I’m talking about. Validation!

      1. hermit crab*

        Awesome! Way to go, indeed! I personally think that the high-five is underutilized at work (between consenting high-fivers, of course).

    2. anon to brag a little*

      That’s awesome! I love good manager stories, we hear too many crazy ones.

      Overall I’d say from a personal standpoint I’ve had a really crappy week BUT at work my boss announced their retirement and shared with the department staff that I am THE succession plan for taking over her role. I had no idea they were announcing it. I’ve had a few other random people from other departments comment on how much they enjoy working with me this week, too. I realized when it comes to career this is the first time I have felt respected, liked, empowered and like I am making an impact in a very long time (well, since Feb 2009 when I got laid off).

      So as long as I don’t get laid off like last time, I think I am in a really really good place for awhile!

    3. Nervous Accountant*

      Nothing particularly stands out but I had a nice convo w my boss. I’m on good terms w my manager, so that itself is pretty nice.

    4. Mimmy*

      Not sure if this counts, but one of my students told someone (in my presence) I was one of his favorite people.

    5. Free Meerkats*

      We had our annual audit by the new state guy (I’ve been here for 26 years and we had the same regulator the whole time).

      It went great! We knew our stuff was in good shape, but had almost no interaction with the new guy in the last year, so he was an unknown. So we weren’t sure how the inspection would go.

    6. Curious Cat*

      Had my very first performance review w/ my boss since starting my first job in June. I went in freaking out and worrying that she would nitpick everything I’d done and that they regretted hiring me…turns out I was just freaking myself out! Got great feedback and found that they love having me on the team as much as I love being there!! (also got a little raise, unexpected but much appreciated!) Sometimes a little validation that you’re doing OK is nice :)

    7. Teal Green*

      One of my coworkers, Fergus, said something sexist in a meeting this week. Jane and I were the only female employees in the room and just kind of rolled our eyes at it and were prepared to just ignore it (very male-dominant industry) but I was pleasantly surprised that one of the senior employees, Wakeen, pushed back at the comment right there in the meeting. Wakeen also told me that he’s going to address the comment and a few other similar things he’s noticed directly with Fergus. We don’t want to go to HR if Wakeen telling Fergus to knock it off takes care of it but Wakeen volunteered that HR would be his next step if it continues.

      It means a lot to see dudes calling out other dudes on this type of behavior, especially when it’s not because of me or Jane having to point it out to someone.

    8. grace*

      I – unexpectedly – got a raise yesterday. Unexpected because, despite a glowing review, I’ve only been here 7 months… :-) Merry Christmas to me!

    9. Ramona Flowers*

      The CEO walked round the entire offices today handing out chocolates and personally wishing every single person a good holiday break. By name. Without sounding like a robot who’d said this to 30 people on my floor before he even reached my desk.

    11. Windchime*

      I had a conversation with one of my favorite end users and she mentioned how much she loved our team, but that she particularly loves working with me because of reasons x, y, and z. It made me feel so good. I meant to mention it to my boss (because she also complimented my boss). I’ll try to remember to tell her next week because it’s so nice to hear a compliment for our entire team.

    12. Middle School Teacher*

      We took our jr high (around 280 kids) on a field trip and they were GREAT. Absolutely zero problems with them. Considering it was the last day of school and the whole last week has been bonkers, I was so impressed with them. It made the last day really positive.

      1. ..Kat..*

        I really admire teachers. I couldn’t handle a classroom full of kids! But, some of the most important people in my life have been teachers.

    13. The Grammarian*

      My supervisor and colleagues told me this week that I was a very valuable member of the team. It made me feel good, especially since as a person with degrees in English, I’ve spent my life hearing about how useless my skills are. Knowing that I am valued at work is a great Christmas present! Plus, my husband was promoted this week, so he also knows he is valuable to his workplace!

  15. drpuma*

    For Christmas this year, my (female) boss gave (female) me a bracelet that says TRUST THE JOURNEY. We are both relatively new to the company; she hit her year a month or so ago and I’ll hit my year next month. My (female) coworker in our department also got a bracelet with more generic platitudes (along the lines of LIVE LOVE LAUGH). My coworker and I agree that she gives our boss much more pushback than I do.
    Anybody else wondering if there is some kind of hidden message in their holiday gift from their boss?

      1. Adelyade83*

        If there is a message your boss wants to send she should tell you not hide it in gifts. I would just enjoy the gift and take it at face value.

    3. Lady Jaina*

      Those kind of “sayings” jewelry have been A Thing for a few years now in my area. I think they are silly and harmless. I am on the No Hidden Message side.

    4. Boredatwork*

      I wouldn’t read too much into it. She probably put some thought into it but not in a mean-spirited kind of way. I think giving jewelry to a subordinate is oddly personal from a professional standpoint but I’m sure she meant it as a nice gesture.

    5. Pollygrammer*

      A boss once gave me a mug that said “Do What You Love…Love What You Do.” I’m pretty sure she probably knew I wasn’t happy with the (horrible) job, and I’ve always wondered if she was A) mocking me or B) trying to hint that I should quit.

    6. periwinkle*

      If it’s available as a framed print at Wayfair, it’s a generic encouraging platitude. Don’t read anything into it.

    7. Lissa*

      I doubt there’s a hidden message, and if there *is*, a good chance you’re not going to correctly pick up on what it was. With a platitude this generic who knows what she might’ve meant, or what meaning she infused, so trying to figure out what it is is just as likely to backfire.

      To be honest, I can’t figure out what those would mean in relation to your comment about pushback!

    9. Not So NewReader*

      If there is any hidden message at all, I think it’s a message of encouragement. You both got messages of encouragement, she did not want to give you guys the identical gift. Personally, I kind of like the message trust the journey. In my life quite a few things have not made sense initially. Later on, I was able to piece things together in a logical manner. There is a rhythm to life, a back and a forth. If today/this week is not so hot, maybe tomorrow or next week will be better.

  16. Murphy*

    So a manager (not in my reporting line) just told me that the #2 in our office (the head of my sub-unit, and sort of my grandboss, who is also not here today) says that unofficially, we can all leave at 3pm. Which is great and I’m definitely not busy, but I have to clock in and clock out, so…I’m not sure how to handle that hours-wise…

    1. INeedANap*

      I always wonder about this too! My boss, who is salaried, will occasionally offer for us to leave early, but the tone and context of the offer makes it seem like a “perk”. But I’m hourly, so I of course have to use my leave time.

      I think the idea is that if you want to leave early just for the heck of it, and if you’re willing to lose hours/use leave, you’re welcome to do so. Whereas on a normal workday, the assumption is you’re not leaving early just for the heck of it, but only when it’s necessary for an appointment or whatever.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      My employer does this as a policy: The day before a major holiday is always a half-day for everyone who can be spared. But they also give us an official “gift of time” and it shows up on our timecards.

      Is your own manager approachable? I’d just go to her/him and ask if this is true and, if so, how to handle it.

      1. Murphy*

        He’s also not in today, haha. A ton of people take off this week, or at least the later half of the week.

        I’m salaried, so they won’t dock my pay, but they could dock my leave time. And it feels wrong to leave at 3 and say that I stayed til my normal time.

        1. Specialk9*

          Those unofficial things are tricky, because you’re left holding the bag if something goes down. I’ve had it at most of my jobs though, so it’s common. You might document that it’s an instruction from a manager, by emailing yourself the facts (today at the 12 pm staff meeting, X told everyone Y, also present were Z and Q and they did not object). But I wouldn’t worry too much.

    3. Mints*

      I’d ask the person that told you what time they’re clocking out. It’s possible (likely) they’d gift you the two hours and you can clock out at your normal later time. I’m assuming a virtual timekeeping though where you can set it for a future time

      1. Murphy*

        He’s exempt, so he doesn’t have to clock out. I can clock out with phone from anywhere, but it feels weird to leave and then clock out an hour or two later.

        1. Mints*

          Oh, I’d probably do it anyway. Or maybe do it and send an email to one of the higher ups to feel less guilty? Maybe vague enough to keep the “unofficial” like “Wrapped up (thing). Merry Christmas!”

      1. Murphy*

        Yes, he can also just approve my time at less than 40 hours, but since he’s not here, I’d have to email him to explain.

    5. Becky*

      My job sends out an official announcement saying you can leave 2 hours early the day before the holiday. However, we don’t have a timeclock where we punch-in/punch-out and we are told to handle it by logging a regular 8 hours but leaving at your 6 hour mark.

    6. Murphy*

      Haha, it’s almost 3. That manager and HR just made the rounds, so I asked and HR told me they’d clock me out. Woo!

    7. Windchime*

      My manager usually lefts us work a 4-hour day on the Friday before a holiday weekend. It’s helpful that we also all work at home on Fridays, so that means we get to sleep in (no commute!) *and* log off early.

  17. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    I have a coworker who doesn’t wash her hands after using the bathroom! Just…yuck! Then again, she uses a mobility scooter and can only walk a bit- the sink is not low enough for her. Which is a problem.

    Grossness aside, she’s quite overweight and I don’t want other people to think, because of her, that fat = gross, or for her to reinforce the stereotype. Hand sanitizer, people!

    1. fposte*

      I think the problem here isn’t what people might think of the overweight, it’s that you have somebody who can’t stand at a sink and your management hasn’t done anything about it. Can you point out to TPTB that there should be one bathroom with a wheelchair-level sink?

    2. Red Reader*

      I am side-eyeing your judgement of this lady, who is unable *because of her disability* to use the restroom sink (and also OMG FAT which adds absolutely nothing to the rest of the “story”). Maybe she’s going back to her desk when she finishes and using hand sanitizer there to minimize the amount of time her scooter is taking up space in the bathroom.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        I see your point, but it’s honestly a worry because other people are judging and making fun of her. Separate issue. I might have unconscious bias, that’s always a consideration.

        1. Red Reader*

          In that case, your personnel issue is less that your coworker is *unable because of her disability to use the restroom facilities appropriately* and more that your other coworkers are jerks. Your real work problem here is that apparently the ownership of your building/office is not ensuring that all staff have appropriate physical access to sinks they can use in the restrooms.

          However, your presentation of the issue as OMG SHE’S SO GROSS SHE DOESN’T WASH HER HANDS (because she can’t) AND DID I MENTION SHE’S FAT AND I THINK PEOPLE MAKE FUN OF HER BECAUSE SHE’S FAT AND GROSS (because she can’t access the sink because disability) SHOCK AND HAND-WRINGING is really not a good look for you.

        2. fposte*

          Then tell the people judging her and making fun of her to stop that crap and to help you present the need for an accessible sink to management. The problem here isn’t the disabled person.

    3. HollyBo*

      Was your question “Am I a jerk for judging my coworker for being fat but trying to make it seem like I’m actually concerned about bad stereotypes of fat people?”, the answer is “yes, yes you are”.

    4. Anony*

      I don’t see why her weight is relevant. Your company should either be providing hand sanitizer or a handicapped accessible sink. The problem seems to be the company/building more than the coworker.

    5. Temperance*

      There are a bunch of different issues at play here. Yes, it’s nasty to use the facilities and not wash your hands and/or sanitize. I don’t think most people are going to think “fat people don’t wash their hands”, but they’re going to think “Barb doesn’t wash her hands and that’s nasty”.

    9. Amtelope*

      So, the huge problem here is that your work isn’t providing adequate accessible bathroom facilities for someone who’s disabled. Advocating for them to fix that would be a very good idea.

    10. Tell Me About It*

      Hand sanitizer isn’t really a good option for after the bathroom because lots of gastrointestinal bugs aren’t killed by hand sanitizer. Also, if you have urine or stool on your hands, hand sanitizer won’t fix that. So, OP, I feel for you. That’s super gross. If she can stand to get on/off her scooter (which she just did, for the toilet) she can stand to wash her hands. And if she is using hand sanitizer, waiting until her desk is useless because she’s touched a bunch of stuff by that point.

      TLDR: people need to wash their hands thoroughly with soap and water after they use the restroom. Full stop.

  18. Maybe PT Library work?*

    I work full time in the teapot industry, but for various reasons stumbled across two PT library positions — one as a Page and the other as a Library Clerk. I have no inclination of making either of those a FT pursuit; this would just be for extra money. However, since most of my resume is heavily geared towards teapotting with minimal skills overlap with library work (yes, some customer service skills, but generally I’m grossly overqualified for a job that only asks for a 16 yr old with a GED), how do I position myself for a job when I already work FT? Or do I even try knowing that I could only work nights/weekends?

    1. MaryPoppins*

      Libraries would probably love someone who wants to work nights and weekends. Also, if they’re offering part time

      1. MaryPoppins*

        Well that didn’t post right.

        Libraries would probably looove someone who wants to work nights and weekends. Also, lots of library people apply for part time hoping they can get full time. This library might appreciate that you actually want THIS job.

        Also, if it’s a public library, customer service is so much of the job. I managed a circulation department and hired a lot of part time students. I looked for resumes with customer service experience and a willingness to learn.

    2. Anony*

      What do you have to lose by applying? Be upfront that you only want nights/weekends and don’t want to go full time. You may be exactly what they are looking for or those may be deal breakers. Only one way to find out.

    3. Dust Bunny*

      Just apply. Those positions shouldn’t require a lot of library-specific background.

      (I work in a library. Before this, I was a veterinary assistant.)

    4. Maybe PT Library work?*

      You all have valid points. I just feel off kilter since I work in something completely unrelated and interface with my screens most of the type and have conference calls in which I try to negotiate and explain to TPTB why this one spout is the best spout and their idea of a spout is really not a spout, it’s a horn.

    5. Tara*

      If you’re up front with them that this is a side-gig for you, for those kind of positions I think they would be fine with it. Most librarians I’ve interviews with for positions like Shelver or Clerk just wanted me to be realistic about the limited hours/pay. If you let them know you’re ok with it, should be fine!

    6. circus peanuts*

      What skills can you transfer from your industry? At my library, we like a variety of background and skills.

    7. Footiepjs*

      When I was a page, I worked with someone who also did admin at the local university. She worked evenings and weekends and that’s the hardest to schedule sometimes.

      If I could make a living as a page, I would. Best job I had because it’s no stress and immediately satisfying. Emptying a cart is proof you accomplished something.

    8. barber's wife*

      At the library where I work, the skills required for a page are basically be able to alphabetize and to lift a certain, relatively small, amount. Clerk only requires a high school diploma but you might face competition from people already in the system that know the policies. The only positions that require any kind of library experience are librarian positions.
      And Mary Poppins is right (above) we are always happy to get people that actually want the position and aren’t looking to move on and up right away.

    1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      Everything is fine! Life goes on. Stuff will get done, or it won’t, and that’s okay. Focus on resting and getting better!!!

    3. paul*

      I had two family emergencies on non consecutive days this week and missed work unexpectedly; I’m giong to be paranoid for *months* about how it looked. I hear ya man, I’m repeating that same damn phrase.

    4. Montresaur*

      Thank you for posting this; I needed to read it.

      My work schedule from Oct-Jan filled up unexpectedly, and while it’s been a good problem to have, the stress caught up with me this week and I got sick. Cue fret-fest about deadlines, perception of my reliability (I work remotely and don’t want to come across as making excuses), etc ad nauseum.

      It’s not forever, and it’s not my whole world. Life and careers will go on, and we’ll both be better off having taken care of our health. Hope you feel well soon!

    6. zora*

      Me tooooo!!!! It has been so hard for me, every morning this week I went on autopilot and started getting ready for work before I remembered, “no, I’m not supposed to go in, I’m sick.” My boss and coworkers don’t want me there spreading my germs, my boss is super supportive of taking care of our health, and just asked me to contact people to help with things that had to be done this week. But still, it feels so weird to stay home, when I probably COULD make it to work if I really pushed myself. Years of working in jobs where staying home was not an option have really ingrained that in me.

      We are both supposed to stay home. Everything will be fine!!! ;)

      1. The Curator*

        I’m trying to stay off of email and remember that all those deadlines are my own doing and that nobody really cares if there is a new posting on the new blog.

  20. Anom*

    On another note, I’ve been thinking of getting into sales. Maybe software sales? I have no sales experience. Can I hear the good, bad and ugly from people who are in it now? My reasons for considering it are

    – I’m an extrovert and sales is supposedly a social job

    – the ability to travel and wine and dine clients on the company’s expense account

    – making commissions and controlling my own income

    – flexible schedule? I’d like to know this one. I’ve heard that sales people work crazy hours but what are they doing all that time? Is it researching new leads, or some sort of customer support? And does it depend on what you’re selling? I wouldn’t mind working crazy hours if I could take long vacations to get away from it all. Or is sales all “go go go” 365 days/year?

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      I once had a software sales guy call me while he was on vacation in Norway. Because I needed a question answered and was on a deadline. So as far as I can tell, you’re never truly on vacation.

    2. Mints*

      Just on the last question, flexible schedule – from what I’ve seen in construction/solar is that it depends a lot on the manager. There are some sales people who go on vacations to Europe for two weeks and the manager seemed prepped and could help answer questions, while there are other people who never really unplug and go on shorter/more local vacations. I think it’s both the manager working to ensure coverage for high performers, and the laidbackness of the sales rep letting someone take over completely.
      This is from someone in operations who works with sales reps laterally

    3. Fabulous*

      I nearly got into mortgage sales years ago. Base pay was $56k guaranteed for 6 months or so while you got up and running, flexible hours and whatnot. What flexible hours in that role meant was you build your hours around your clients’ needs. Client needs to sign a paper at 10pm because he’s going out of town? Done! Client only has 6am meeting time available? Done! All your clients need to meet on Sunday and have absolutely no availability the rest of the week? Done! So, in reality it’s not so much flexible for YOU per se.

    4. AnonSales*

      I did software sales for 3 years for a specialty industry. The software costs were between 20k for a small deployment to 1/4 Million. I had no previous sales experience. I was picked up to do this job because I had an in at the company and was a power user of the software (however, they added more software to my plate that I had to learn). I had 10 years in the niche industry to rely on for background knowledge and I was very familiar with the competitor software having used it for many years.
      I loved the social part of it – and I don’t really see myself as an extrovert. But, I really liked being out and about and seeing how different companies did things. I learned a ton getting to see so much variation.
      I did some travel. It was an international company so I did training in Europe. But most of my travel was to very boring places, just due to where the industry hubs were located. I did enjoy my expense account. My favorite was tickets to cool events- as long as I signed up and had a reasonable client to take, I could use the company suite at the sports/concert arena. I burned out pretty quick on travel because I had a family I didn’t love leaving behind. Luckily for me, the industry had a downturn and I didn’t have to do it much after the first 8 months.
      Flexible schedule – yes and no. I could work from home unless I had a client meeting. If I had a client meeting/sales demo – it didn’t feel flexible for emergencies. I think the only time I cancelled a client meeting was when my grandma died that morning and I left work to go be with my mom and help her. But it was flexible because I could say, “hey i can’t do next tuesday because i have an appointment, lets do Wednesday instead” and no one cared that the appointment was my kids school assembly or whatever. I don’t think I ever worked 40 full hours. when i wasn’t talking to clients, i was setting up my next appointments, researching companies, and some customer support for harder questions. I did stay very available to my blackberry to answer questions..even on vacations.
      The most stress for me was pressure from management to make more sales. I had sort of tapped my market already + the downturn when no one had money to buy.

      I wrote a book. Sorry. Hopefully it helps though.

    5. Bostonian*

      My SO works in sales. It’s a retail environment, so there’s a physical product that people have to go to the store to buy (as opposed to acquiring clients to sell a service/software to), so keep that difference in mind. However, it is 100% commission-based salary, including bonuses for hitting certain milestones. People in the top 20% or so in sales are making 6 figures. Even people at the bottom are making at least $56k.

      I would say there’s more of a mental/emotional aspect of the job than you would think. You have to be really self-motivated and be able to handle negativity (partly from customers, but mostly from other sales people). There is a lot of stress over hitting sales goals (if you’re in the bottom, you’re on notice and could be let go; if you’re at the top, the sales managers expect a lot out of you).

      You’re right that there’s some work outside of working hours. It mostly entails emailing/calling customers when they have a question/issue OR meeting a customer in the store on a scheduled day off. It’s not required, but obviously the more you do this, the more business you have, and the more money you make. It also is a way to create a good business relationship with the customers so they’re likely to work with you again and/or refer their friends to you.

      I would say it’s not necessarily “go go go” 365 days/year, but there are patterns in busy times and you can plan your time off around that: making sure you put the time in when you know it will pay off and taking your vacations when you know it will be more slow. That’s where the flexibility comes in: you get to decide how much extra work you want to do and therefore can pretty much set your earnings.

    6. Let's Sidebar*

      In my experience, my enjoyment of sales has been directly correlated to my sincere passion for the value of the product I am offering. To me, that is incredibly important. I love the social aspect of sales and connecting with clients to solve an actual existing need. Luckily I represent a product with a stellar reputation that I really believe is the best money can buy and I have no qualms about telling somebody when I think it may not be the match for their priorities. The passion makes it easy to work off hours and sort of be on call, as the thrill of the chase when you know it’s a perfect fit is pretty great. Response time (vs hours logged) is probably what leads to the idea of crazy hours because in so many cases being responsive increases your chances of landing a deal by A LOT. So yeah, maybe you could wait until Monday to respond, but if you really want to be successful you won’t.

  21. Ms. Meow*

    I need guidance listing my job on my resume. My business unit was acquired by another company, but everything else is the same. It doesn’t make sense to list them separately because I’m still working on the same projects, and my accomplishments apply just as much now as they did before. I also want to keep the previous company on my resume for name recognition. Does it make sense to list it as:

    Tauntaun Keeper
    Dagobah Corporation (November 2017 – present)
    Previously with Hoth Industries (June 2014 – October 2017)
    * accomplishments
    * etc

    1. Sloane Kittering*

      I’d say “Hoth Industries, acquired by Dagobah Industries” on line two, instead of Previously With, to make it clear that the org changed but you did not.

    2. lisalee*

      I would say “formerly part of____” or “formerly a division of ____” instead of “previously with” because that makes me think you personally moved and not the division.

      1. Anony*

        I would probably say “Dagobah Industries, formerly Hoth Industries” to put the focus on the current company name.

    3. CG*

      I had similar and just did one listing (because I didn’t want to imply that my job itself changed):

      Dagobah Corporation, previously Hoth Industries (June 2014 – present)

  22. Sunshine Brite*

    Such a stressful time of the year. My current line of work has a high risk of assault and regular verbal abuse and sometimes it just seems to add up. Haven’t been doing this long so I’m hoping not to burnout because we tend to snip at each other across job specialties sometimes when bad things happen

    1. Nines*

      Is the risk assault of you by clients? I have had similar jobs and it can be really trying. Even when it’s usually really wonderful, a couple bad incidents can really weigh on employees. I know it’s easier send then done, but try and take care of yourself!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Any type of human service work seems to require excellent self care. These jobs can be very draining. Even with excellent self care it’s very difficult to stay in the job for a long period of time.

        If you are good at using humor, then you can try to look for times to put humor into a situation. My suggestion is to poke fun at something most people would laugh at such as a broken copier or printer. When in doubt do not crack the joke.

        You can also inject random acts of kindness. And you can get creative with that. Let’s say someone snips at you, perhaps you can see a path to ignore the tone of voice and be helpful, supportive anyway. This is random acts so it’s not a constant demand for kindness.

        If cohorts are being assaulted you can start the idea of using an informal buddy system, if you do not already have a buddy system in place. Be willing to back up others and ask them to do the same for you. This could be as basic as telephone check-ins if they are not on site. They miss their agreed call-in time you start pulling in more help. (I remember getting a reverse 911 call because the police officer outside of my work place was not answering their radio call. The 911 employee asked if I could see the officer and if the officer was still standing. The officer was still standing and engrossed in conversation.)

        On some days you may find it helpful to remind yourself that words are not punches to the gut, even if they feel like punches to the gut, words are not a physical attack. This one helped me to keep some situations in perspective.

        Last, if you feel the burnout starting it might be time to move along. Don’t wait until full blown burnout sets in, it is too hard to job hunt when there is nothing left of your mind/soul/heart.

  23. Teacher*

    Question for those in preK-12 (especially private/independent schools) if you have a master’s degree or higher, do you include it on your email signature/business cards/whatever?

    1. Goya de la Mancha*

      I’m not in the profession, but interact frequently with those who are. I have rarely ever seen it from teachers and most of the higher ups I’ve seen it from only happens when they have their doctorate.

    3. blackcat*

      My experience is that I see PhD only (generally in the form of Dr. First Last) for teachers. School websites generally include everything (one of my former colleagues as an MA, MFA, PhD, and MAT. Dude was in grad school for like 12 years total. It’s comical to include them all, but the website shows them all).

      The exception is some people include specific licensure, eg special ed. I have seen counselors include degrees like MSW in their signatures, too and nurses include BSNs.

    4. Emalia*

      I work at a public school and I don’t include my M.Ed in my signature. However, in certain situations, I’ll add it on to my signature. A master level classes are required for re certification in my state.

      In my last job at a education non-profit, I had it as part of my signature. I think I did it to signal I was an educator as opposed to a mba, which many people at my level were.

    5. Humble Schoolmarm*

      Also very rare in my neck of the woods. I see in a little more often at the School Board level but still pretty uncommon.

    6. Llama Wrangler*

      Never for most Masters unless they’re in counseling/social work, and someone is in a counseling-related role (and then only sometimes). Sometimes for PhDs and EdMs, but generally just for admin/leadership or people in non-profits (aka not teaching/staff roles in schools).

    7. Julianne*

      I don’t. In my district, a Master’s is unofficially required for employment, and I think that contributes to a culture where teachers don’t list degrees in their email signatures. However, related service providers definitely do; for example, the speech-language pathologists who work with my students list their degrees and certifications, as do our social workers/counseling staff. My perception is that this is because degrees/specific certifications are more of a big deal in these fields, but that perception may not be accurate.

      1. WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot*

        Agree. Even if it’s to point out that someone received a stellar performance review, it can still be awkward!

    4. Caro in the UK*

      Yes! I’d be mortified if it was mine (good or bad) and I’d feel very awkward if it were a coworker’s

    6. Sam Foster*

      Yes.

      Additionally, it sounds like the kind of thing that would be a violation of company policy.

      Regardless, terrible practice, morale crushing and just unfair to all involved.

  25. Sloane Kittering*

    Ugh, I really need a pick me up this week. I found out I did *not* get an awesome new job that would have really changed my life (I would have been able to work from home, instead of being chained to my crappy cubicle in a fluorescent hell for 60 hours a week). We’re also down a staffperson at my current job, the person below me in seniority, which means all the admin minutiae is falling to me and my boss is dumping more and more stuff. It’s not his fault, it’s just bad timing but now I have a terrible attitude. I can’t believe at almost 35 with a masters degree I’m still literally tracking down and paying invoices instead of using my hard-won field specific knowledge.

    1. MaryPoppins*

      I feel you on the I-Got-A-Master’s-Degree-For-This? Are you able to do any of your field-specific tasks or is that what you’re job searching for?

      1. Sloane Kittering*

        I don’t have time to get to them because I’m stuck doing the tedious stuff that has to get done to keep the lights on. But I know it’s hurting me because it’s not the kind of work you get any credit for, and the more I’m seen as “Sloane, the one who knows how to generate that really tedious report” or “Sloane, the one who knows how to pay invoices” or “Sloane who knows the status of our subcontracts,” (all of which got dumped on me by my boss this week) the less people will think of me as a subject matter expert with great ideas.

        It doesn’t help that I used to have that less-senior position and was promoted out of it, so I’ll never shake that association in people’s minds. I’ve been job searching HARD and really thought this opportunity was going to be my ticket out of here. Now I’m stuck in ladyadmin hell for at least another few months.

        1. MaryPoppins*

          Ooh yeah, moving into a more senior role at the same place can be tough. You never seem to fully shake the previous work/role and some people don’t take you as seriously. Good luck in your search, I hope it’s not too much longer!

  26. AnonAndOn*

    Weekly unemployment support thread. How is your job search going? Need or want advice? Just want to vent?

    I called the temp agencies I’m with to check in for the week and they had nothing for me. I’m surprised there were no holiday fill-in jobs. In regard to the interview I had last week for a temp-to-perm job I was told that they may go with an internal candidate but they had no solid news and probably won’t know anything until after the new year.

    I applied to a couple more jobs this week, one of them being a federal government job. I realize that their hiring process takes forever, but they can be quick to reject (I’ve received rejections for some federal jobs two weeks after I applied to them).

    My financial setbacks due to unemployment are getting worse and I’m trying to keep a cool head, but it is hard. I nearly broke down yesterday. **I do not want advice and just wanted to post an update.**

    1. HollyBo*

      I feel you – no advice coming from me because I have been in your shoes and it just plain sucks. I will tell you I was unemployed for 10 months and am over 50, which made me a real attractive candidate, let me tell ya! I *did* get a job though. It’s not perfect but no job is and I am managing its imperfections. It *will* happen for you too!

    2. atexit8*

      I knew that this time of the year is slow for a job hunt.

      Of course, I cut down expenses like only having basic cable and the slowest internet speed with Comcast.
      Things like that.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        I’ve cut expenses and continue to cut expenses. I had to surrender a pet (that was hard), I discontinued my Netflix account, I hardly go out anywhere and have become a near hermit. It’s rough.

        1. Anony McAnonface*

          The hermiting part of unemployment is so rough. I don’t have anything useful to add, just that I’m sorry you’re in this position and I hope you find something awesome in the new year.

          1. AnonAndOn*

            Thanks. I wasn’t a huge social butterfly when I was employed, but I did get out and do things. I miss having a life.

        2. Adlib*

          Oh gosh, I’m so sorry about your pet. I’m hoping a new job will allow you to get it back or to give a new one some love. Best wishes for a new job in the new year!

          1. AnonAndOn*

            Thanks. I did it a year ago (I’ve been out of consistent work for that long) and it still hurts. She’s now long with another home. I don’t plan on getting another pet. The risk of losing another one is just too hard.

    3. Sloane Kittering*

      Aw I feel you. I think it’ll be better in January – people just aren’t willing to make decisions after the holidays.

    4. Anony McAnonface*

      I just got told that my contract is not being renewed due to departmental restructuring and after 4 days of crying at home, I’m trying not to depression spiral at the thought of having to start job searching again. I’m giving myself until the new year to wallow and have my holiday and then I’ll start the horrorshow of job applications again. Mostly because there are no job postings right now, but also because I want to wallow damnit.

      2. Emalia*

        I was laid off right before Thanksgiving last year–the timing is totally the worst. Tons of posting popped up after the New Year. Hopefully you find the same.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      Rejected after a preliminary interview, which is okay (I think my many hesitations about the job came across).

      Ghosted by another company after they said they wanted to consider me for Y position after rejecting me for X. That one hurts my pride because I was really excited about the company and they had previously been really good at communicating, but whatever, I know it’s not personal.

      Waiting to hear back on yet another application from last week, but due to the timing I’m not expecting anything to happen until after the holidays.

      The company whose offer I had to decline last month due to external conflicts may have some openings early next year and since the timing will be better, maybe one of those will work out. In hindsight I probably shouldn’t have declined but the circumstances were really lousy.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        I hope things look up for you after the holidays too! Sorry to hear about the ghosting from that one job.

    6. nep*

      Thanks for sharing, AnonAndOn.
      I keep going back and forth between ‘I’ve got to just take absolutely anything I can get’ and ‘I’ve stuck it out for a long time — I’ve got to work in the field I care about and where my skills lie.’ Meanwhile continue to seek and apply.
      Good luck, all.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        Yep, that’s me, more or less. Anything is better than nothing but I’d rather get something in line with what I’m doing and that brings me a sense of stability.

        Good luck to you too, nep.

    7. Elizabeth West*

      I am almost out of money and not getting responses from even crap jobs and I do not know what I’m going to do. Temporary retail is out because those jobs will go away in a matter of weeks. Temp agencies have not had anything. I need a damn miracle.

      1. nep*

        Ouf — same here. I don’t believe in miracles…but yeah, I need something along those lines. Meanwhile, hard work and perseverance…Still part of me just wants to give up.
        Best of luck and keep us posted.

      2. atexit8*

        Unless you still are receiving unemployment, some money in is better than no money in.

        Someone I know started at HomeGoods before the holidays.

        I am ready to hit the ground running Jan. 2 , 2018!

    8. Chaordic One*

      Two weeks ago I came down with a terrible cold and I’ve been trying to recover ever since, so nothing is happening at all on the job seeking front. Then, as if that weren’t bad enough, my elderly father was admitted to the hospital with a nasty infection and possibly heart problems. Even though I’m not over my cold, I drove home to spend time with him in the hospital. I haven’t even finished Christmas shopping. Right not I’m just going to have to focus on other things beside the job search and besides Christmas.

  27. This feels silly*

    I talk in my sleep. According to my spouse, I have recently progressed from incomprehensible mutterings to coherent statements (including singing!). He said the other night that I told him in my sleep thay I was not going to do [work thing] and that he should do it. (We don’t work together or in the same field.)

    This has made me kind of paranoid because my work often deals with confidential information. I’m really worried that I am going to breach confidence in my sleep! Ahhhhh! It hasn’t happened, but I didn’t sleep well last night worrying about it.

    If it happened, I’d tell my supervisor even though I’d be mortified. I don’t really know what to do to proactively avoid it. Sleeping apart isn’t an option. I would feel bad asking my spouse to wear earplugs. I’m thinking of buying a mouth guard in the hopes that it will help shut me up. Any other ideas?

    1. Murphy*

      As long as you don’t have a spouse like in that one letter from recently, I think you’ll be OK.

      My husband says all sorts of weird stuff when he’s asleep/sleepy. I can’t even remember it in the mornings sometimes and it usually makes no sense.

    2. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

      Do you trust your spouse? I don’t think it’s a big deal to accidentally or otherwise share information with them, if you aren’t insider trading or revealing personal or ID information.

      Recently had a case where (product) EXPLODES near stoves or over-released in cooking. Like hell I wasn’t going to tell my family to stop using (product!)

    3. k.k*

      I’ve been a sleep talker sometimes. I do wear a mouth guard for dental reasons, and it does muffle anything you’d say. I have heard that sleep talking is often caused by stress and not getting enough sleep, so maybe try getting some more sleep? Also apparently avoiding snacking and alcohol before bed can help reduce it. If there has been a significant change in the way you sleep talk and it keeps up, it might be worth it to talk to your doctor in case it’s a sign of a more serious sleep disorder.

    4. LCL*

      Remind your husband that your work things are confidential and to not repeat whatever you say to anyone else. Or to you. Tell him to drop it. Don’t tell your supervisor, that’s TMI.

      1. Specialk9*

        I sleep talk like crazy, and have had very confidential-info positions. But sleep talking is just not coherent enough, usually, for you to need to worry.

        For instance, I often dream about the milk truck delivery when I’m emergency covering the loading dock on a weekend – how to unload it, where the heck to store it all, etc. I don’t work at a loading dock, have never even seen a milk truck (I’m assuming that’s when a thing), and it’s utterly bizarre.

        Or I think my spouse is a space ship captain, who’s either plotting against me or spying on me.

        When I do talk about normal things, it makes no sense. I wouldn’t worry too much about it!

    6. DivineMissL*

      I’m confused – do you think your spouse is going to call your boss about some random thing you said in your sleep? Are we talking nuclear codes or something?
      I come from a long line of sleepwalkers/talkers – your spouse is not even in your line of work and your words are meaningless to him/her. Don’t worry about it.

    7. This feels silly*

      Let me clarify that I work in a licensed, regulated profession of which confidentiality is a key component of my professional obligations (like, I can be disciplined for violating these obligations). I think it would have a professional ethical obligation to disclose a breach. This is not about me not trusting my spouse.

      I guess I can call the regulating entity’s ethics hotline.

      1. Chameleon*

        Tell your spouse that if you tell him confidential information in your sleep you could be disciplined. I will bet anything that you will suddenly stop talking in your sleep.

      2. Jules the First*

        I think sometimes there’s a loophole for your spouse…and I’m fairly sure you can’t be censured for something you said when you were not consciously in control (ditto for silly things you say under anasthetic).

        If it makes you feel better, I once scared the crap out of my sister by reciting poetry from Lord of the Rings in my sleep…in Mordorian.

      3. Shiara*

        I don’t think you’re wrong to be concerned about this or to take it seriously. I do think calling the ethics hotline would be a good idea, as they’re likely best positioned to offer reassurance if in fact this isn’t something you need to be unduly concerned about, or else to offer suggestions that might not have occurred to you.

        You may want to bring it up with your doctor first. Especially if the coherence/relevance of your sleep talking is a recent change, it’s possible that there’s a cause. Or if you’re especially stressed out right now for some reason, that may be triggering it and developing some relaxation rituals before bed or something might help.

    8. Anony*

      Well you can talk to your doctor to see if there is something you can do to sleep better/deeper. Also, mention your concern to your spouse! He likely thinks that this is a funny quirk and doesn’t realize the anxiety it is causing you. If you ask he will almost certainly agree to not repeat anything you say in your sleep (and I agree with previous posters that you are unlikely to actually say something confidential that makes sense out of context).

    9. Ghost Town*

      Was the work thing an actual thing? My husband sometimes talks in his sleep, and when it isn’t incomprehensible muttering, it is still nonsensical sentences. Best of luck!

    10. CCF*

      I heard a story years ago about someone who applied for a job at an intelligence organization. During the background interviews, an ex-partner said that they talked in their sleep. Apparently, that was enough for a red flag.

      Talking in your sleep can be a sign of another sleep disorder. If you are worried, you may want to get a sleep test or something like that to see if there’s another issue going on that the sleep talking is just a symptom of. My partner talks in their sleep too, and it ranges from imcomprehensible to coherent regularly.

      1. Super Secret Squirre*

        Maaaaybe, the intel side can be a bit twitchier, but as someone who has been through that process, that sounds like urban legend.

      2. Her Grace*

        When my husband got a federal job at a super-sekret facility, *I* had to get a security clearance in case he talked in his sleep.

    11. CG*

      Don’t panic! This may have been a one-off thing.

      Also, telling him a general thing about something that probably occupied a lot of waking brain space is probably not the same as confidential info, which seems more likely to be a specific fact.

    12. Adlib*

      This reminds me of the thread here recently where people were talking about sleepwalking. Not long after, my husband ended up sleepwalking. (He used the bathroom and didn’t quite hit the target – that’s how I knew.) I was terrified it would get worse or happen again, but it was all due to stress/fatigue. He hasn’t done it again. He also talks in his sleep occasionally, but it doesn’t make any sense at all.

      I agree with the advice so far. Mouth guards work, but I wouldn’t worry about it too much as long as you let your spouse know to keep it to himself if anything should slip out.

    13. Not So NewReader*

      Ask your husband to nudge you when you sleep talk.
      Try to catch yourself sleep talking and change your body position when you do.

      Your worry about breaching confidentiality in your sleep is probably adding to the worry that causes the sleep talking. Look around. How many different ways can you find to reduce your worry load.

      Years ago, I realized I was snoring. I am normally a side sleeper, so I made myself sleep with my hand beside my mouth in effort to catch myself snoring more often.

    14. Sam Foster*

      Sleep talking can be a symptom of a larger problem. If you can, talk to a sleep specialist and possibly have a sleep study done.

  28. MaryPoppins*

    I’ve been reading through the archives searching for something on job fit. I started a new job about a month ago and I already feel…a little bored? I feel guilty since most people feel overwhelmed or unsure so awhile at their new positions. I don’t have the longest job history but it’s just not what I thought it would be? This job is basically me looking at a screen in a cubicle for 8 hours a day and it hurts my eyes/wrists/back. My training has been sporadic and I’ve mostly been working independently. My trainer says I’m doing “amazing.” I wish there was more variety.

    What are my options here? I feel awful about looking for something new so soon. I know if I stick it out for a few years I could move to a different department. I’m trying to focus on the positives: great hours, good pay, good benefits, having a job at all but it’s hard.

    1. Anony*

      How is your job history prior to this? If it is good you can probably leave this job off your resume if you leave. Are you ok burning this bridge?

      1. MaryPoppins*

        It’s okay, but not great. I’ve stayed at jobs for about 2 years a piece and I’ve had 3 full time positions.

    2. Sparky*

      I think it takes a minimum of 3 months to feel comfortable in a new job and a full year to understand the ins and outs of it. It’s possible that you are being given a gentle start before things get busy. How busy do your coworkers seem? Are they as bored as you? Re: eyes wrist back hurting stuff. There are definitely things you can do to mitigate discomfort from looking at screens all day (taking 5 minute breaks wearing screen glare glasses) adding a lower shelf to place mice and keyboards on etc. It’s also possible that you are in a boring entry level position that will stay boring but could potentially lead to good things down the road. A good rule of thumb if you’re not sure how you feel about a new job is that most company’s usually use a 3 month probation period to assess you, you should use a 3 month period to assess them.

      1. MaryPoppins*

        They seem busy enough (not stressed, it’s a library, there’s not really a busy season or anything) but their tasks also seem pretty repetitive. I came from 2 jobs where I was rotating between customer service, supervising and training, and doing computer work. Now I just have computer work that I’m apparently picking up on really quickly. The person in this role before me retired and had never worked in a library before. My trainer said she expected to have to help me more but that I’m picking things up really quickly. The tasks I have not yet been trained on are really just a different form of the same work (resolving errors in a database, it’s just the type of error that changes).

        It seems like they oversold the “variety” part when I talked about that in the interviews.

    3. Sloane Kittering*

      This is always tough to know when you start out – is it me, is it this job, is it the field? If you’re midcareer and have a lot of options, you could choose to pursue a switch – or if you’re brand new and you’re sure this isn’t your field and you want to try something where you’re standing or working physically or out in the field (note that these jobs often pay less for more effort than a cushy office job, but YMMV). If you’re starting out and this is your first job (and the salary/benefits are decent), I *highly* recommend sticking with it for at least a year. You will probably adjust to the new schedule – I know it was tough for me in the beginning to get used to sitting at a desk all day every week day, and most jobs aren’t constantly being presented with fun challenging new opportunities, but I got used it. (I also started taking a lunchtime walk).

      As for not being occupied, well, the company has decided it’s worth it to pay you full time (presumably) to have you on-call, and if there’s nothing you’re needed for in a given minute it’s okay to surf the web or take a class or work on a novel or whatever. Most office jobs are the same, and some are worse in terms of being toxic or crappy.

      2. MaryPoppins*

        I’m fairly early career but this area of my field may not be for me. I’ve had a couple fulltime positions since graduating and I’ve stayed about 2 years in each. Both those jobs were more varied: customer service, computer work, planning projects, supervising and training. This is just so repetitive.

        I definitely don’t want to pass up a good job, the culture is great so far, no crazy bosses or coworkers. I’ve started walk breaks! They have been really helpful for relieving screen headaches.

        1. Sloane Kittering*

          I guess some of your comments made me think you don’t want an office job – which is totally fine! Some people plan their whole careers to ensure they don’t have to have an office job, it’s not for everybody! But I wanted to flag for you that even if you switch jobs, as long as your in an office you’re going to have some of these issues. So it’d be a shame to leave an otherwise good one.

          1. MaryPoppins*

            That’s a good point, I definitely wouldn’t want to jump ship for another job that has the same qualities. It’s a good job, I don’t want to make it out like I think it’s terrible I just think it may not be for me. I’m trying to find something that’s a little more hands-on so hopefully this mistake won’t reflect badly on me. And, if I can’t find anything right away, at least it’s stable and a decent place to work.

            1. Specialk9*

              Also, you need to get ergonomic adjustments to your workplace stat! Aching wrists and back will turn into carpal tunnel and back problems. So ask for an ergonomic expert to review your setup, if your company has that. If not, Google.

              Get a split slanted keyboard, sideways mouse, prop up your monitor so it’s eye height. Look at the angle of your elbow when working, and research how to fix it by desk setup. Look at your chair height and how you’re sitting.

              Start doing daily basic back exercises (eg stretch your hamstring with standing long slow toe-reaches; on your back with knees raised and spine pressed to the floor, slowly raise/lower one knee then the other). Tightness in your legs and hips pull the back e muscles out of whack so stretch.

  29. barber's wife*

    Just wanted to update everyone on a question I posted in the open thread a few months back.
    My husband’s shop classifies him as an independent contractor and he only makes a percentage of sales (not a salary). The owner was trying to make them work a lot of hours where there was very little business, so they were barely making anything but he wasn’t paying them to be there and got a cut of whatever sales they did make.
    People here pointed out that if the owner is classifying them as contractors they have to be able to make their own hours. Since they all found this out they have successfully pushed back on being there when there is no business. The boss gave up on making them be there (in a downtown business district) on Saturday evening and they generally just feel more empowered to leave when business seems over for the day.
    So thanks to everyone who comments here! Happy Holidays!!

  30. fposte*

    So I was researching stuff about the new tax legislation, and there’s something interesting (and that I don’t think would have to be a political discussion) that I haven’t seen much coverage of: it includes a tax credit for employers who pay their employees during FMLA. It’s only partial, but I don’t think there was any at all before; it would be nice if this smoothed FMLA a bit for people who need it.

    1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      That’s interesting. By “pay,” does that mean pay other than PTO? Because my employer “pays” me during FMLA but it’s coming out of my PTO bank – once that’s used up, I’d have to go on unpaid leave.

        1. Phoenix Programmer*

          If it does then the credit doesn’t do anything but shift the burden of FMLA to tax payers. I would call different if it was a credit for employers who paid employees on FMLA without requiring PTO use.

  31. Folklorist*

    Hello! It’s your “GAAAAAAHHHHHH-IT’S-THE-LAST-DAY-BEFORE-THE-HOLIDAYS” ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST! I know you have lots of little things hanging on, so get them done and come back here and brag about them!

    I’m doing ALL THE THINGS that I’ve pout off due to job burnout and mild sickness over the past couple of weeks before I get 10 glorious days off! Now to write two articles, edit some mind-numbing junk, and enter some awards competitions….

    1. ThursdaysGeek*

      I grew up in Ashland, but my family has moved further down the valley, because housing costs are so high there. Still, it’s a beautiful area, and the theater is excellent.

    2. Mallows*

      I would have applied for that in a hot second when I lived in the Rogue Valley 10 years ago. One of my friends out there always gets us box seats for a show when I come visit.

  33. Mimmy*

    Quick resume question:

    A career advisor at one of my alma maters suggested that I leave the dates of earned degrees off of my resume because she saw that I got my Bachelors in 1995; she was concerned about potential age discrimination (I’m in my 40s). Since the Bachelors, I’ve earned a Masters (2007) and an Advanced Certificate (2016). Do employers really not care when you earned specific credentials? (I am aware that I will have to provide that info on a job application).

    1. Red Reader*

      Nah, the year doesn’t need to be on there for most things. I’m sure there might be field-specific exceptions for like… a professional certification or something? But for education/degrees, outside of possibly academia, I wouldn’t find it necessary to have the year on my resume. (That said, I do, because I don’t have any reason not to – I’m currently in grad school while working, so I have the anticipated date of completion on there.)

    2. Anomonon*

      I put only the finish date of my last degree. That did make me seem younger than I am to employers, and I have some evidence that it helped get me in the door. Whether they want all the finish dates depends on the employer. I now have a government job, and they required all the dates on everything including high school.

    3. Llama Wrangler*

      What do people think about the opposite scenario? People tend to think I’m younger than I am, and I’ve felt like having the year I completed my BA is helpful for them (“oh, she’s been working for 10+ years in this field”).

    4. KaG*

      I left off my undergrad date after (I think) a comment I read on AAM (undergrad 2000, masters 2015). The first interview I had with that resume, the interviewer asked me what year I graduated college. Sigh.

      1. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

        I don’t really understand this as a convention, either. I mean, I’m in my 40s but I think it would look strange not to have the year I graduated on my CV. But perhaps I should try leaving it off and see if anything changes.

  34. Freaking Out*

    Five years ago, I left a toxic job with an abusive boss. When I worked for Dolores, I was crying at work on a weekly basis. She’d already been reported to HR multiple times with limited results, so it felt like my only option was to leave. I took a $5000 pay cut to leave that job and join my current organization. I’ve been here for 5 years and have received 3 promotions in that time.

    Dolores left our old organization not long after I did. This week, I started hearing some industry gossip that her current job is not going well and she’s talking about applying for similar positions at different organizations. My current organization just posted a job opening at the same level as Dolores’s current job, and the person who gets selected for this position will be my direct supervisor.

    I’m terrified that Dolores will apply to be my new boss. I have no evidence that she will, but even the thought of having to report to her again makes me feel like I might hyperventilate. The way our organization is set up, I won’t know if she’s applied unless they hire her, and by that time it will be too late.

    I feel like I should bring this to someone’s attention. My grandboss and I haven’t worked together for long and we don’t have very much history together, but I’ve worked closely with our HR manager in the past. I want to set an appointment with HR, but I don’t know what I should say and what I should leave out. So much of this is speculation, and I don’t want her to think I’m hysterical or overreacting.

    How do I do this? What are some scripts you guys might use if you were in my place? Help me, AAM community, you’re my only hope.

    1. fposte*

      I think this has even come up in a post, so it’s not that freak an occurrence. I would meet with HR to say “This is a bit of a stretch, but I think a former supervisor of mine might apply for one of our open positions, and I wanted to alert you that she was extremely problematic to work with in the following ways: X, Y, Z. I don’t think I’d be able to work with her again and I also don’t think she’d be good for Teapots Inc. I know it’s not my decision, but I wanted to register my viewpoint now so as not to risk waiting until it’s too late.”

      1. Pollygrammer*

        This is a good script! If you feel like it’s going to raise eyebrows and you want to be more subtle, you could say something like ““This is a bit of a stretch, but I think a former supervisor of mine might apply for one of our open positions. Is there any way I could get a heads-up if that’s the case?” They will probably ask you why and you can delicately express your hesitation about working with her and your reasons.

        Are direct subordinates not involved in the hiring/interview process at all at your job? That seems like a big risk to me.

    2. Sloane Kittering*

      I would get in with HR to see if she actually does apply before freaking out too much about it. No sense in worrying yourself sick about something that may not even materialize. Sidenote: any chance that you could apply for this job yourself? That’s one way to stop her from getting it! :D Or even if she is hired, maybe you can go back to the old company now that she’s not there!

    1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      Why can’t I ever get a vlookup to work in Excel? I’m a friggin’ database developer and I can’t ever get a vlookup to work correctly. Thank you! :)

      1. hiptobesquared*

        It’s important to make sure the data table you’re pulling from is – in fact – vertical. HLOOKUP is the exact same thing but for horizontal tables.

        I love VLOOKUP, so this is a great question!

        =VLOOKUP(The value you want look up, the range of your data table, where the lookup field is in in relation to the value you are using to look it up, FALSE)

        Note: The count to the lookup value includes the value you’re using to look it up, so if your’e searching for the price of gasoline and the value you’re using to look it up is “Regular” in column A and the price is in column B, your count is 2.

        I know that’s clear as mud but hopefully helps!

      2. Adlib*

        Make sure your columns/cells aren’t formatted as “text”. That sometimes happens, and it’s not always the first thing people check! Your table array also has to be set up from left to right (example – you’re looking up data in column A to pull from column B, not vice versa).

        Also, maybe use TRIM to get extra spaces out of data so that doesn’t throw it off.

        I troubleshoot VLOOKUP a lot!

        1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

          Most of the time, my data is in text form. Is there a way around that, or can I just not use lookups? Our work study has used vlookup on text data so I figured there has to be a way, like when he is doing table compare reports when a new patch bundle comes out. So he’s comparing table names.

          2. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

            To compare, I usually use an if formula. I might not be understanding exactly what you are doing, but let’s say I have data (all text) in column A and it should be the same as a new list. I’ll put the new list in column B and then in column C, I put if(A:A=B:B, “”,”CHECK”). Then I drag that down the column and if it’s blank it’s a match and if not it puts the word check in column C.

            I use vlookup all the time for text, so it can definitely be done. It’s possible that there are spaces at the end of your text or something else that isn’t letting it work.

            1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

              This sounds more like what I am trying to do, so I will check into extra characters/spaces next time I run it. Thanks!

    2. Foreign Octopus*

      My HP laptop is running slowly. I’ve had it for about a year and it used to be quick off the mark. I’m just wondering if it’s a normal ageing thing or there’s something I can do to speed it up again.

      Thanks!

      1. hiptobesquared*

        Being vague here, but some of the things I do are to see what you have running at startup, clear out temp files, and possibly increase your RAM – especially if you only have 2 or 4 GB. RAM is inexpensive and can be ungraded pretty easily.

        Of course there are program specific things, but no, after a year, I wouldn’t expect it to be super slow.

      2. TiffIf*

        Also, I know a lot of people who about every 6 months will save anything (file wise) to an external drive and then just wipe and reinstall the OS. You’ll have to reinstall a lot of programs after, depending on what you do or need, but you can start back from base.

    3. Tara*

      Not sure if a “computer” question, but do you know which program would be good for a total newbie to talk to an API? I’ve only got a vague idea of how to write/aggregate requests, but I’m not sure how to mess around with it because I don’t know which platform to use. (Bonus if it’s browser based?)

      1. hiptobesquared*

        Ooh I’m so sorry but this is not an area where I know enough to help. Great question though! Maybe someone else will be able to assist.

        1. Tara*

          Yes. I downloaded Postman but apparently I don’t know enough to use it? If anyone has good links for beginners, I’d appreciate that too.

          1. Tau*

            Hmm. No links, unfortunately, but to me it sounds like what you might need to look into isn’t how to play with an API but the fundamentals of how HTTP works – requests, responses, headers, what the verbs are and what they generally do, maybe some basics of REST, etc. Because I think Postman is pretty straightforward if you have a good handle on those things, and they’re important to know if you’re going to be working with APIs.

            Oh, another tip that may be helpful – in most browsers, you can check what’s actually happening in terms of network calls when you browse to a page and load it via using developer tools, inspecting individual requests and the responses they got. You may even be able to copy specific requests to Postman so that you can fiddle with parts of it and see how it changes the response. (I do this in Chrome via “copy as cURL” and then importing in Postman, not sure if there’s an easier way).

      3. Cassandra*

        APIs are usually meant for someone to write programming code against. There often isn’t a readymade platform for interactions.

        Now, “often” doesn’t mean “always,” so I might spend some time with a search engine and the terms “web application” “webapp” or “GUI.”

        Another possibility, if the API is what’s called “RESTful,” is that you can interact with it by messing around with URLs in your browser. If this is a possibility, there should be documentation for it. (“Should” doesn’t always mean “is,” unfortunately.)

        Hope this helps.

      4. The Grammarian*

        Does the company that wrote their API have documentation with notes on what values/commands to use to get certain info back? I used Postman in the past.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      I have an Excel VBA program that worked fine in October and now when it runs, it kills Excel completely. It’s loading a bunch of file names into an array, and then going through one by one and parsing out some data from each file. It has error handling, because the array is bigger than the number of files. The error handling seems to have quit working. It’s dying in an area that worked, with nothing changed (except time and Excel updates).

      I’m working on a workaround. The number of files will vary, so I think an additional ‘if the file name is not empty, do the rest of this stuff’ will work. But why did the error handling quit working!?

      1. Windchime*

        I am a programmer who has done a little bit of VBA (but mostly other stuff). I would look for a file name that has some kind of a special character in it or something. If it was working fine and now all the sudden crashes, that tells me that perhaps you’ve got an error that the error handling subs aren’t able to handle. I don’t remember enough of VBA to know how to tell you exactly how to do this, but I would try a very generic try/catch inside your main sub to see if you can dump out the error. Another thing to try is to put in a break point and then step through the code as it runs to try to understand where it’s crashing. That should help make it more clear where you need to beef up your error handling.

    5. TiffIf*

      I am not fond of the growing amount of data harvested in various operating systems for corporate data collection and so I’ve been leaning towards putting a Linux distro my next home computer. However, the last time I put Linux (Lubuntu) on a machine I ran into all sorts of hardware compatibility issues (it was a cheap netbook that could barely run the Windows XP it natively came with so that might have been part of the problem).

      I know my way around an OS better than most, but I am by no means an expert and I am pretty much a newbie when it comes to Linux. Would it be a better idea to just buy something that comes with it already and therefore has all the hardware compatibility figured out? The problem there is there are a lot fewer options for pre-loaded Linux machines.

      Just, any advice in general here would be appreciated.

      1. Cassandra*

        Shortcut might be to narrow down to some model numbers for machines you’re interested in, then search them with “Linux” and see which ones have results?

  36. Ramona Flowers*

    You guys, I won an award at work! My grandboss / head of programme nominated me. I got it on Wednesday and I’m still in shock.

    After years of toxic jobs and terrible managers and stressful self-employment I finally work somewhere decent where I feel valued and happy.

    And I’m not just saying that because I’ve been at my grandboss’s home-mulled wine.

  37. Long time lurker*

    To those who have gotten data analyst or data scientist jobs without a computer science degree.

    I’m learning technical skills, mainly Python and SQL, and I’ve decided that I really want to pursue this. But I don’t have any work experience with these languages and I don’t have coursework for them either. I’m thinking about putting some projects online but I’m worried about it since I haven’t been formally trained to make coding presentable. I’m concerned that showcasing any projects may backfire and betray my inexperience. I should mention that I do have a STEM degree but it doesn’t have much to do with computers.

    So I ask the readers of AAM, how did you get into data analysis and data science?

    1. Loki*

      I know someone with a BA in a non-computer science field who got his first DB job by claiming to know SQL when they knew nothing about it, spent the weekend cramming it for a skills test, and somehow got the job. They’ve gone on to have jobs in several prominent companies.

      I’m not an expert, but different companies can have different standards for exactly how they want their code to look anyway, so even if yours were neat, it may need to change a bit to match their standards. As long as anything you’re showcasing works like it’s supposed to, I think it would be fine.

    2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      Database developer with an English BA here! I got into data analysis via working as a support tech for our school’s learning management system. I knew the application really well, and started to understand the data side of it. Schools are desperate for data about how their students are using the LMS, so I became the go-to person for retrieving and analyzing this data. I asked lots of questions, did some training courses online, watched a lot of videos. Eventually I got more and more work in the data analysis and reporting arena, and then I started getting into more DBA and development type work, because I saw a need in my department for it. Eventually my dept went another direction, but I got a new job in a different dept as a developer for a data warehouse.

      I learned all my SQL and other skills on the job. What I played up in interviews was my institutional knowledge, my critical thinking skills, and my adaptability. Good employers recognize that programming skills can be taught…but the more intangible things are difficult to teach. So I would just keep learning and practicing as much as you can, look for opportunities in your current job, and also highlight your STEM degree and soft skills to potential employers. I’m thinking you know how to research and write because of STEM, correct? That is a huge asset for data analysis.

      I can’t speak anything to data science because I think that’s very heavy into math and I’m terrible at math. But I think you can do it! Good luck!

    3. sg*

      i think putting projects online is a great idea! you can learn *a lot* from reading other people’s blogs in terms of thought process, coding standards, etc. i think blogging is just such a great way to demonstrate not only coding skills, but also how you think through a problem (the most important part of being a good data analyst job, imo!)

      i’m an R user, not python, so the blogs I like reflect that, but I’d take a look at these:
      * https://juliasilge.com/
      * http://varianceexplained.org/ (especially topical post — http://varianceexplained.org/r/start-blog/ )
      * http://www.masalmon.eu/

      If you’re not on twitter, there’s a *huge* data analysis/science community on there, both for R and python.

      btw: i think coming from a STEM field, or any non comp-sci field in general, is a great way to get into data analysis — you likely have experience working through problems in the context of whatever you studied, and domain knowledge (and knowing how to work through domain-specific problems) is so important in doing analysis! i come from a Statistics background, which had a tiny bit of programming, and a tiny bit of domain-level stuff, but not a ton of either ;)

    4. Overeducated*

      I have 3 different friends with grad degrees in other science and social science fields who did “boot camps” (some the short weekend variety, some longer) and pretty much immediately got data science jobs after. I am not sure if it was connections, learning the right lingo, or just showing they were serious enough to put money down but it made a pretty instant difference, even for the scientists whose previous research basically *was* data science.

    5. JJJJShabado*

      I agree with sg above about transferable skills. I program in SAS. I was a math major with a minor in computer science. When I interviewed, I knew nothing about SAS except for a little reading I had done. After I interviewed, I got access to SAS and did some examples and sent them in, so I’m a proponent of showing work. The best experience you are going to get is doing things. As for making code presentable, what you think it should be is correct. Should have comments, should be easy to read. I would not say there is a definitive style on code.

    6. Arils*

      It might not be exactly what you’re looking for, but I am a DA with my state. I have one of those fru-fru degrees. I started with the department in another capacity aligned with my master’s degree and when an opportunity presented itself to move to IS/DA I applied. The IT manager was always impressed with my work ethic and was also known to teach everyone in his department. I also took Python and SQL classes before applying to this job to show my willingness to learn. In my job now I barely use SQL. It is truly a lot of data analysis, figuring out why they are having issues sending data, and reaching out to/assisting clients.

      I’d look for “non-competitive jobs” i.e. public jobs that do not pay as well as private jobs. The programmer/IS jobs with our state depart are vacant forever sometimes because the pay is good but not competitive. Start in the public sector, gain experience and skills, move to private.

    7. Julie Noted*

      I came up in data analysis with an advanced science degree but not even high school classes in computer science. Now I’m a senior manager of data analysts and hire them all the time. I don’t think I’ve ever hired someone with computer science qualifications – if I did, they had something else too, and the computers part didn’t stand out in my mind.

      What you need to be a good data scientist/analyst is scientific/analytical thinking, MUCH more than coding skills. I’ve hired plenty of junior staff whose coding experience extended to introductory SAS, SPSS or R from a psych/stats/eco class, and even some whose most advantage computer skill was solid Excel. We train them on the job. On the other hand, I’ve rejected lots of candidates with coding experience who can’t demonstrate critical thinking, the ability to form a testable hypothesis, or appreciation of the real world context or application of data problems.

      Managing staff, the ones I have the most problems with tend to be those whose focus is exclusively on code, not context. Staff whose development plan centres on improving communication skills to translate data into meaningful information, but who refuse to spend training effort on anything other than the next language certification.

      If you want to get into data analysis, show me that you know how to use data to answer questions, to uncover and solve problems. Then I’ll be a lot more interested in you than in the person with just a list of programs on their resume.

  38. paul*

    Our staff bathrooms are in a part of the building that isn’t heated (because the offices there are not occupied). Usually it’s no big, but it was single digits outside this AM; I’m frankly amazed the water in the toilets didn’t’ freeze. Wondering if I should push for an oil filled space heater in each of the bathrooms?

    1. fposte*

      I bet you’d be the people’s hero, especially the sitting people’s hero. Is the sink water also unheated?

    2. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      You’ll have to go to your facility manager and/or building owner for that. Many buildings have certain codes that would prohibit space heaters.

    3. WellRed*

      Maybe mention your concern that the pipes could freeze. Which is a pain to deal with. Plus, then you’d have no plumbing. Which means no work (I would think) if there are no facilities.

      1. anon24*

        Which means no work (I would think) if there are no facilities.

        My last job had the external sewage tank freeze and blow out of the ground the first week of January last year. It took 4 months to get fixed because the township would not issue a permit to allow the tank to be replaced. We did not get any time off work. We got to use portable bathrooms that they placed in a garage. It was horrible.

    4. Anony*

      It might be better to push for them to turn the heat on in that part of the building, at least at a low level. It can’t be good for the pipes to get that cold.

      1. paul*

        I’m not sure how the heating/cooling/plumbing in this building works. We take up about 1/3 of this story, and the building company heats this part of it, but the bathrooms are kind of in the center of the story, and the heat int he rest of of it’s off. The floor below is fully occupied and heated. I’d guesstimate the temp in that part of the building in the low 40s maybe? so I don’t think the pipes are in danger but it’s certainly not comfortable in office clothes!

        1. Anony*

          Maybe you can point out that the bathrooms should be considered an “occupied” part of the building since you are expected to use them, unless there are other bathrooms you could use that are heated.

    5. paul*

      Well, that didn’t take long….got a response that fire code prohibits them :/ not even sure if that’s true or not. Blech.

    6. DaniCalifornia*

      I feel you on this. I work in a building built in late 1800s. Our bathrooms are freezing. Even when it got to 72 yesterday the whole place stays cold for days.

  39. Tess McGill*

    I started a new job in February this year and the firm does annual reviews for everyone once a year, regardless of when you were hired. I have truly worked my a** off this year, coming in early every single day, only sick for two days and only taking four days off in the last 10+ months (I get 10 days combined leave the first year, 15 days next year). I answer to two little bosses and one big boss. The big boss is amazing. Truly a phenomenal person to work for/with day in and day out. The work is non-stop, constantly challenging and I am really happy. I also moved house this month and in the last 60 days he’s given me liberal leave to meet with the home inspector, contractors, packers and movers and attend closing, all without charging me leave. He even gave me an amazing house warming gift. We just received our annual reviews. I received a raise five times the amount I was hoping for and a bonus over three times the amount I was hoping for. I am over-the-moon happy and I just wanted to give a shout-out to Alison. It was here that I found all the advice for cover letters, resumes and interview questions/answers/skills when I was job hunting in January. Thanks Alison, and thanks as well to the entire AAM community. I have learned so much from this group and I just wanted to share. I hope everyone has a very happy holiday spent with friends and family and a wonderful new year!

  40. extra anon today*

    I finally went to HR about my supervisor never speaking to me and not assigning me enough work to do. I told her about how he doesn’t understand my capabilities and continues to give me work that’s years below my experience level. I mentioned that I have no regular (daily/weekly) responsibilities, so that when I have no assignments from him, I have nothing to fall back on. I also told her that he did not do any training or onboarding for me (I’ve only been here 6 months). She was receptive and nice but got really hung up on the lack of onboarding. Apparently the city has a pretty straightforward template for onboarding that includes 30, 60 and 90 day work plans and expectations. I was literally sat at a desk, told to look through the shared directories and forgotten about for two full weeks before I got an assignment. My boss and I have never had a meeting or a conversation. He sends everything through email even though he sits 6 feet away from me. It is so strange! She didn’t want to talk about that though. HR was only interested in the lack of onboarding, which isn’t my problem right now, so that was frustrating. She said she would meet with my boss and grandboss “soon” but it’s been two weeks. *grump*

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Sounds like she picked the thing that was easiest to address. It’s hard to quantify “you need to give your employee some work.” It’s a lot easier to note that a checkbox hasn’t been checked.

    2. Purplesaurus*

      It’s terrible to feel like you’ve been left hanging. But it’s possible HR already met with your bosses and you just don’t know about it yet.

      Is there anyone else in the office that reports to your boss? Could you ask them about the situation?

  41. Bend & Snap*

    Why am I getting ghosted after 10+ interviews, in final rounds?

    For the third time this year I just wrapped up 11 interviews all the way up to the C-level over a period of months, and…nothing.

    The interviewers are always responsive when I follow up as far as giving me an update but never follow up when they say they will. So clearly they’re not going to hire me, but why string me along and take my time over a period of months?

    So, so, so frustrated. I have had millions of interviews this year and no job offers because interviewers disappear after the final round.

    1. BadPlanning*

      Perhaps everyone went on vacation for the year — or enough people did and no one left a to-do to contact Bend & Snap.

    2. fposte*

      I’m sorry, B&S. That’s frustrating. I think you’ve just got a field where they’re really bad at sending rejections. I don’t think that changes the outcome–it’s no job either way–but it makes the experience that much more bruising.

  42. CCF*

    Not a question, but a bananas situation.

    Sam and Diane are divorced from each other and work in different departments at my company. Sam went to Diane’s house to pick up their kid(s). While over there he got in an argument with Diane’s boyfriend, Frasier. Frasier is a police officer. The argument escalated. At some point later on, Frasier shot Sam. There’s been no discipline for Frasier. Diane came back to work and apparently didn’t mention a word of this. Sam’s department found out what happened and has basically declared war against Diane’s department, even though they are in no way related.

    I am not on either team. But let’s just say the gossip has spread through the office and everyone is aware when people from Sam and Diane’s respective departments are in the same room or potentially might be. I have no idea how things will cool down.

    1. LCL*

      The vast majority of the time domestic drama should be left out of the workplace. This is one of those exceptions. My suggestions are vague because I don’t know your org structure, but this does need management’s attention.

      Someone needs to explain to Sam and Diane’s manager, and the manager above them, what happened. Those managers have to talk to each other and figure out what to tell their groups and remind them they have to work together. Also to talk to Sam and Diane individually to see if either has safety concerns being around the other, and if they are both able to work in the same place. There might even be restraining orders involved.

    2. Foreign Octopus*

      What the frick-frack?

      Frasier shot Sam?!

      I feel like there should be a disciplinary action somewhere in there. If he was off-duty, why was he carrying a gun? And how badly does a conversation have to escalate where shooting someone seems like a good idea?

      (Gun culture confuses me.)

      I suppose I can understand Sam’s department’s reaction but I reckon they need to be reminded it’s a place of work, not a courthouse where judgement can be passed.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Whoa. WHOA. Is Sam ok or going to be ok?

      I think everyone at work needs to mind their business and act professionally, but to be honest, I would have a really hard time with that at first. I would give everyone a week to cool off (unless, of course, they need each other to do their work), but after that, I would expect people to act like civilized adults in the office. And if I were the head of either department, I would sit them all down and say as much.

      1. CCF*

        There have been a lot of rumors and I don’t know what Sam’s condition is. Whatever the truth is, he apparently has not returned to work. I occasionally work with someone in his department, but don’t know them well enough to ask about this.

        One of my coworkers witnessed two people arguing about it. As she put it, one person yelling “How could you keep working with Diane after this?!” There’s a weird tension, I think, knowing that these people could run into each other in common areas and an argument could break out. I can only imagine how awkward it would be for anyone else.

        1. fposte*

          I think management, especially Sam’s management, really needs to take an active role here, because that is problematic behavior in its own right and needs to be clearly identified as such.

        2. Mints*

          I think it’s likely that friends of each are like “Well sure Sam/Diane/Frasier could have handled it better but the other guy made it worse” and the other person is like “No, the other guy acted way worse” and having an official acknowledgement might help. But that’s bonkers, and management has a LOT to do

        3. Lissa*

          Man, regardless of what else people think, it seems really messed up to be blaming Diane because of what her husband did. If anything I’d be terrified *for* her, having a boyfriend who will *shoot* someone because they “had an argument.” (or like…for any reason, but you know.) Considering the statistics on that type of thing, that is not not not a good situation.

          Do…people think everyone in Diane”s department should quit or refuse to work with her because of this? That doesn’t really make any sense to me.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Management needs to step in with a firm hand. Since Sam’s department seems to be initiating the disruption that would probably be the best place to start.

      The last time I saw a love triangle blow up, everyone left the company. That seemed to be the only remedy.

      1. LCL*

        The way I read it, Frazier doesn’t work with Sam and Diane. Frazier is a cop who works for the police department, which is not S and Ds and OPs workplace. No doubt There will be trouble for Frazier, but cops are government and nothing happens fast in government.

      2. Thlayli*

        In the good ol US of A cops shoot people ALL THE TIME without being disciplined for it. In my country a newspaper once did a special article about child shootings in the US – apparently something like 13 children a day are killed in shootings. So they picked an average day the previous year and followed up on the stories of the 13 kids. They were all very sad but one stuck out in my mind because there was such a total lack of government response.

        A bunch of black kids were in a shop and one of them got shot dead by the security guard who said they were shoplifting. The other kids said they weren’t shoplifting. Case closed, no discipline no trial no one gave a crap. The security guards statement that the kid was shoplifting was apparently enough to justify the death of a child without any other evidence whatsoever. The security guard was an off-duty white cop who had previously shot and killed his ex-wife, which he also got away with.

        This is apparently a perfectly normal occurance in the land of the free. I thank my lucky stars every day I wasn’t born in America.

  43. Qwertyuiop*

    I have been at my new job for 4 months and I work with another woman, “Patty”. My background is in library science, but my current position is in another field but I deal with records. Patty keeps asking about why I didn’t chose to work in a library, why I left my old job, etc. Once when I was talking about a job posting that went to an internal candidate, Patty point blank asked if I had applied for the job. (I didn’t!)

    Patty and I talk about previous jobs that we had and when I talk about a library job, Patty will ask , “Was it a temp job?” I said, “No, it was part-time.” Then she said, “Oh, they didn’t want to take you on full-time?”

    I don’t know whether she doesn’t want to work with me or what her deal is, but it’s getting annoying and I feel bad. When she talks about job searching, I almost want to ask if she’s trying to get rid of me, but I know I shouldn’t.

    Am I overreacting? Should anything be said or done about this?

    1. BadPlanning*

      I think some people think unless you’re working “in your field” then you’ve either failed or gone off track. Even though, it is probably more common for people start with one “field” in mind and take a meandering path to somewhere new.

      Or sometimes people just get hung up thinking there’s some juicy drama llama story when it’s really quite boring.

    2. fposte*

      She sounds like she might just be a natterer; do you know if she natters similarly to other people given the chance?

      I wouldn’t take it personally, but I know comments that really aren’t personal can still hit some personal tender spots. I actually think a humorous “Oh, Patty, you’re not trying to get rid of me, are you?” would be an amiable and apt response.

    3. Anony*

      It sounds very annoying. I think the best thing to do is not discuss past jobs with her. If she tries to bring it up, change the subject or tell her that you would rather not discuss it.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      “Patty, every day we have to talk about my old job or job hunting. What’s up? Why are we doing this?”

      OR

      “Patty, almost every day you ask me about my old job or job hunting. I was thinking maybe we could find other things to talk about.”

  44. gala apple*

    I’ve been casually searching for jobs for a while now, and almost everything I see that I’m interested in requires a masters and pays 60% of what I make now. What is with these unrealistic expectations that employers have? Or are they not unrealistic, and I’m just out of touch with hiring?

    2. Teal Green*

      It does seem like there are a lot of employers with unrealistic expectations. I laughed out loud at one job listing linkedin recommended to me recently – required a masters and minimum 4 years experience with a fairly high level of responsibility, listed as “entry-level.” Lol wut

    3. krysb*

      What kills me is that the labor market has tightened over the past couple of years. This isn’t like 10 years ago or five years ago where there were a lot of skilled workers searching for work, making the job market benefit employers, but they’re still treating it like it is. It’s ridiculous. I’m probably going to start job seriously job searching sometime next year. What will you think will happen if I laugh at an employer that tries to underpay me in this market?

  45. MommaCat*

    How do I stay motivated after I’ve turned in notice? I work at a school (not a teacher), and I’ve informed them that this is my last year so they can work on hiring the next person. I have some massive projects coming up that I have to work on during winter break, and I’m just not. Motivated. At. All. Any tips?

    1. BadPlanning*

      When I’m hit with a big “no movitation,” I usually break things down into a bunch of steps. Then I tell myself, do Step 1 and then we’ll take a break. Or let’s skip ahead and do more interesting Thing 5 and then we’ll come back to the others. Usually this will get me going and I can do Step 1-3 and then take a break, etc.

      1. Artemesia*

        In the same vein, I will when stuck pick something that I know is easy and fairly quick and just do it, so I can knock something off. When I was stuck writing years ago on something complicated, I knocked off a quick two page ‘how to’ article for a professional journal — not a refereed important piece, but something. sometimes just reinforcing yourself with little accomplishments can get you there.

        BF Skinner wrote every morning and would reward himself with an afternoon listening to music. Figure out what little reward you can give yourself for getting some odious task off your desk. Most of us can pound for half an hour with a pellet at the end. It’s all rats all the way down.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      After giving notice it’s easy to feel like we no longer work “for” the company/organization. Why not frame it as you work for yourself? For the rest of this job, you will do things that look great on a resume or make for good discussion at a job interview.

      1. Marthooh*

        Or think of it as working to earn a great reference. Even if you don’t need one now, you may in a few years.

    3. Cobalt*

      Oof that’s hard. I would try to focus on doing things for your resume and job references. You will still be there for long enough that you could tank your reputation if you can’t at least keep up with your previous productivity.

  46. rosiebyanyothername*

    I have a question for any AAM readers who work in education. I’m a new grad in an office job, so this is a little out of my wheelhouse, but I’m wondering: many of my also-new-grad friends are working in education, either as teachers or in City Year and similar programs. Some of these friends have been posting on social media about their students, including pictures and videos of the kids they teach. Usually it’s framed in a “I’m so proud of my students, look at what they’re doing!” context, but am I wrong in thinking this could be ethically questionable? I find it hard to believe every parent signed off on their kid’s teacher posting pictures of them on their personal social media pages. Or is social media engagement part of being a teacher now?

    1. Veronica*

      I work in an education-adjacent field, and I’d say most teachers know exactly which kids don’t have waivers on file. When I’ve done social media at school events, it’s usually the classroom teachers who pull me aside and say, “Hey, you can’t take pictures of Kid C.” Especially in schools where City Year, Teach For America, etc. operate, it’s pretty standard practice to try to get 100 percent participation in media waivers, or as close to it as possible.

    2. Foreign Octopus*

      I would say no.

      I worked as an ESL teacher with kids last year where the rules are slacker but, even then, social media pictures with the kids? Definitely a no-no.

      I suspect (and this is pure conjecture) that the easy acceptance of social media as a lifestyle has made it so some people just don’t think about the consequences of posting pictures with their students. I doubt it’s malicious, I just think that no one is thinking through the process.

    3. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      I’m not aware of specific laws on that, but based off of ethics, yeah, I think it’s often a bit questionable. I have a lot of teacher friends who post about their students, but they won’t post pictures. It’ll just be funny quotes like “Student 1: blah. Student 2: blah.” and a lot of “I love my students!” which I think are okay.

      That said, it’s also possible that certain schools do include some sort of social media consent form for parents to sign and that parents might be aware of what’s being posted (although my instinct is that they’re probably not). If the kids are high-school age, I’d let it go, tbh, because those kids are generally old enough to have their own social media profiles and might actually be encouraging the posting, but if your friends are teaching middle or elementary school, that’s much iffier. Depending on how your friends would take the feedback, it might be something to raise with them if they’re teaching younger grades.

      1. rosiebyanyothername*

        Yeah, I think I may approach my friend who seems to be doing it the most often w/ elementary-age kids (agree that high schoolers are less of a big deal). This is on my friend’s personal pages, not any sort of account managed by the school. When I was a camp counselor in high school I had to adhere to a very strict “no campers on social media” rule, so I assumed the standard was the same for schools.

    4. Emmie*

      This is not okay at all. I know a handful of teacher do this, but they shouldn’t. It is a FERPA violation IMO. This might also present safety issues for some kids – like foster kids or a kids who were crime victims. It may be okay to post pics where they are not personally identifiable- such as pictures of the backs of heads, blurring out faces, or of their hands / feet, or simply of projects with no names.

      1. Natalie*

        It’s not necessarily a FERPA violation if they have written permission from the parents. There’s no way you’d know that from the outside.

        1. Emmie*

          True. I wonder how well the school informs its teachers on the status of student’s FERPA waivers. I’m also not sure that signing a FERPA waiver allows teachers to post information / pictures on their personal accounts. That posting is probably beyond the scope of the waiver.

          1. Julianne*

            My thought is that regardless of any specific regulations, posting stuff about specific kids (especially photos, but even anything identifiable) is not a great idea. It’s not rational, but as an experienced and certified classroom teacher, I’d have less patience for something like this coming from my City Year (I do work with CY and other AmeriCorps programs and am a National Service alum myself) than from another teacher.

          2. Thursday Next*

            Yep, the waivers we’re asked to sign are for permission for the school to use photos. Not for individual teachers on their personal accounts. I don’t post pics of my kids on my own social media pages, so I’d be livid if a teacher did. And I’d make my anger known to the administration. (It’d be any parent’s right to do so, but we have specific privacy issues including ones relating to disabilities.)

            2. Thlayli*

              Yes, any waivers are for the schools official pics not the teachers personal accounts. And like you I didn’t sign coz I don’t put pics of my kids online either. My cousin used to live with a guy who worked in online child protection and she didn’t tell me scary details but she did tell me plastering pics of your kids all over the Internet puts them at risk. The internet barely knows my kids exist and I want to keep it that way.

    5. Mimmy*

      I work with adult students with a specific disability – while I haven’t been told specifically, I’m pretty sure posting pictures of our students would be considered a no-no. Now, if the agency itself posted pictures to its public pages, I think it’s okay to share that.

      Long story short, your friends may want to check with their employers to make sure this doesn’t violate any ethics policies.

    6. HannahS*

      From my own friends that are teachers, I’d say that a few of the ones in private schools do put pictures and videos up, or funny conversations with names removed, but those in public schools never put one single thing. I think it’s pretty bad, ethically, unless all there are waivers for all of them.

    7. Humble Schoolmarm*

      It kind of is where I am. We’re encouraged by our school board to tweet about special learning activities with a specific hash tag. We send a media waver home and know which parents haven’t signed and most of us try to stick to shots that avoid as many faces as possible. It would be considered a problem to single out a student or say anything negative, but “Humble Schoolmarm’s class learned about llama feeding today!” with a picture of Fergus Jr and Jane Jr’s backs would be very normal. (I’m not in the US, though)

      1. Teach*

        Teacher here: I have different social media for different purposes. My Facebook is me, family, pets. I might occasionally post something about school that is very generic and positive i.e. “Happiness is students bringing you books to borrow from their personal libraries so that you can discuss them together!” Insta is mostly cat and recipe photos, LOL. My Twitter account is all school related – any student photos are kids with releases, 100% positive, and 100% aligned with a school goal – celebrating positive behaviors, sharing learning activities, tweeting quotes or learnings from professional reading or conferences I’m attending, re-tweeting links to articles related to my speciality, etc. This is really encouraged by our district and different buildings have hashtags that teachers are encouraged to use. The district has a central office person who manages district-level social media and retweets teachers hourly. They also employ high school social media interns who learn marketing and messaging.
        Honestly, Twitter helped me land my current job, which is an amazing fit. I cultivated a professional network, created a “brand” for my classroom and program, and showed evidence of professional learning. By the time I was in an interview with principals, they had a good idea of who I was and how I taught.

    8. Middle School Teacher*

      My school would fire teachers for that. Not only is it a huge FOIPP violation, it’s extremely unprofessional. Our local union would be involved and the teacher would lose their certificate (which means no more teaching, anywhere).

    9. Thlayli*

      Pretty sure that would be outright illegal in my country. And it’s unethical no matter where you are. At my kids Christmas carol concert parents weren’t even allowed take photos. We take child protection seriously.

    10. Artemesia*

      I have worked in an institution for the developmentally disabled 50 years ago and even then there were strict privacy rules much like HIPAA today. I think it is totally inappropriate for someone to post pictures of kids they teach on line and am surprised there isn’t a rule about this made clear.

      I sometimes volunteer in an organization that provides free winter coats, hats, gloves, scarves and polartek to kids in the public schools in need. It is a great charity — the kids get to pick out their own stuff and the coats are as varied as the options in any store, so they don’t look like they have ‘charity coats.’ I see volunteers sometimes post these pictures of happy kids and their coats and have this same reaction.

  47. Free Meerkats*

    I work for a municipality under a union contract, so we have no merit raises or annual bonuses. And it’s annual evaluation time. Even though there’s no money in the equation, it galls me that the highest rating possible is “Satisfactory.”

    I’m the highest performing, most knowledgeable person in our work group, I’m nationally known as an authority in our field, and I’m regularly headhunted; but I’m “Satisfactory.” My boss knows my value to the City, his boss knows, and I believe her boss has some inkling.

    No idea why it’s this way, but it is.

    I know, I’m whinging for no real reason. But it’s that kind of day.

    Merry Christmas, all!

    1. LCL*

      Whinge away. It may help to put yourself in my shoes. I have to write those evaluations, in fact I have been working on them this week. I have to write them, even though I know they are meaningless-they don’t affect compensation or work assignments. I hate the process as much as you do. If it makes you feel any better, know that I know who the people are that work at your level, and those that perform at the Spiccoli level.
      Merry Christmas.

    2. Drama Mama*

      Yep. I know the feeling. My company uses a 1-5 scale, but managers are not allowed to give 5s and they can only give each employee two 4s per year. Because (as they explained in a company wide email a few years ago when word of this policy leaked) “we need to leave room for improvement!”
      God forbid they actually TELL people who are doing a good job that they are valued!
      So basically, our managers are not allowed to tell us we are anything but mediocre. Good thing I work my butt off. I happen to really enjoy my job, so I don’t need external motivation to do it well, but I am sure it’s demoralizing and unmotivating for lots of people.

    3. Uncivil Engineer*

      I’m a government worker, too, and our evaluations have no effect on our pay either. We don’t even have ratings on our evaluations anymore. You either get a regular evaluation or you’re on a PIP. Those are the only two options.

  48. Veronica*

    I just want to express gratitude for understanding bosses. I found out today I have to have foot surgery (not unexpected, but I wasn’t expecting it to be scheduled for next week). I’m one of the only people on the schedule to work, eeeek! My grandboss took it in stride, just asked what days I needed off and told me not to worry about coverage, she’d take care of it. She also swung by my desk ten minutes ago to let me know she’d already arranged for me to be able to park closer to the building during my recovery. It was on my to do list, but it was so nice to just have it taken care of!

  49. Mimmy*

    Separate question: Assistance with career decision-making – career coach vs. informational interviews

    As you’ve probably seen, I’ve been really struggling with making decisions about my career. The career advisor I mentioned in my other question above gave me an extensive list of internet resources. Those are very helpful, but I still feel a need to sit down with someone to help me talk out my ideas and concerns.

    I know career coaching and counseling can be hit-or-miss from what I’ve seen here, but they seem more qualified to help you talk through ideas, consider skills and personality traits, etc. On the other hand, talking with an actual professional in the areas can also be very helpful since you can ask more specific questions.

    So what do you guys think?

    1. Mimmy*

      I should clarify: I am working at the moment, but the setting and even the duties aren’t a great fit despite positive feedback. I’ve always seen this job as a stepping stone only, but I’m chomping at the bits to get a general plan in place before I lose my mind or get roped into something I’m uncomfortable with.

    2. Overeducated*

      I think the question is what you want to get out of it. “How should I think about job searching and career planning as a process” = career coach. “How can I find out what path is right for me by learning about actual jobs” = informational interviews. In my experience career coaches are more “know thyself” types who help you think through your own preferences and set goals for next steps. If you want to find out about whether a particular job or industry could be right for you, and learn more about it, then you want informational interviews with people in that field. Maybe both if you want both! I think a coach will encourage informational interviews anyway….

      I am a pretty introspective person and a big reader and planner, so I don’t find career coaching very helpful, but I like informational interviews because they go deeper than the “people in this field do x” level of information you can find easily online. And you can *ask* people things like “what should my next step be?” And “what positions are realistic to aim for at my career stage?” and get concrete ideas.

    3. alannaofdoom*

      I have never worked “officially” with a career coach, but when I was laid off earlier this year a mentor of mine (who is a career coach professionally) spent a few hours on the phone with me talking through options and figuring out what particular jobs interested me and would be a good fit for my skills, and giving me feedback on how to present myself effectively in my resume and interviews. Because I wanted to stay in my field and I’d been something of a generalist, I didn’t do many informational interviews because I already had a good working knowledge of various roles and whether they’d work for me or not.

      So I think you summed it up very well – a career coach will be more focused on developing *your* skills and goals, whereas informational interviews will be more focused on getting specific answers. If you know exactly what you want to do and just need to find out what steps will get you there, informational interviews would probably be more useful (and maybe a coach to help you polish up your presentation if you think you’d benefit). If you’re not sure where you want to aim, working with a coach would yield better results than sitting down for informational interviews and trying to figure out “am I suited for your job?”

    4. Not So NewReader*

      The little bit I have seen with career coaching, you need to find someone familiar with your arena who works with people around your rate of pay. Using myself as an example, it would be totally useless for me to go to a person who helps people making hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. This would be like looking for a Ford at a BMW dealership. Fords are fine, but BMW dealers are not focused on selling Fords.
      So you find out what arenas they work in and what level of placements they work with.

  50. queen b*

    Hey AAM readers,

    I recently had an interview for a job and I asked what the manager liked most about her team. She said that they “were all Christian, and had good morals.” Is this weird? I’m honestly very off put that she would mention it and is making me reconsider the job offer… I am wondering if I should inform the recruiter as well.

    3. Foreign Octopus*

      Red flag to me.

      This would put me off 100%. I’d let the recruiter know just as a “hey, so, this thing happened.”

    4. JD*

      This is very odd. I would not want to take the job personally. I worked for a company once that did not advertise as very religious but turned out being so. They were so very preachy about it I couldn’t take it….and I am Catholic!

      It is really not the appropriate answer to that question with some small exceptions.

    5. fposte*

      Eeeyikes. I’m also guessing that if they’re big enough to have teams they’re big enough to be covered by EEOC law, and that if it had been a religious institution you’d have mentioned that fact. So eeyikes x 2.

    6. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Yeesh. Yes, please do inform the recruiter so that said recruiter doesn’t waste the time of people who don’t fit her “standards.” I wouldn’t be surprised if a non-Christian or a member of a Christian sect she didn’t like (or someone of the same sect who just was okay with something she wasn’t) would have a very rough time there (if they were even hired–it sounds like there could already be some hiring discrimination there).

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Agree with letting the recruiter know. That’s a highly inappropriate thing for a manager to say.

    10. Temperance*

      Gross. I am kind of one of Those People, so I would have made a snarky comment about how I probably wouldn’t be a good fit, since I don’t believe that Christians are the only people with “good morals”. And yes, I would air quote that ish.

    11. Ann Furthermore*

      Run away. Quickly. Run like the wind.

      Although I’m laughing to myself picturing my atheist husband at a Christmas party with this bunch…

    12. HannahS*

      Yeah, it’s weird. Don’t work there. If you don’t fall in line by being Christian and having whatever they agree are “good morals” you’re going to be very uncomfortable.

    13. Ramona Flowers*

      RUN AWAY NOW!

      I mean I happen to be a Christian and would still run a mile from a flag this big and red.

    14. SC Anonibrarian*

      in a perfect world i’d thank her for being open about it, tell her i was a satanist, and withdraw my application. in reality i’m too conflict-averse for that so i’d just say thanks but no thanks.
      ugh.

    15. nep*

      Oh, man. That would put me off for sure. I would not continue to pursue that one. Completely personal / individual choice, for sure, though.

    16. Not So NewReader*

      Speaking as a church going person myself they call it “A Practicing Christian” for a reason. None of us are perfect.
      Yeah, I would step back from this one. We all put our pants on one leg at a time.

    18. AJ*

      LOL! This is the interview equivalent of “Name one positive quality you respect about each other” A: His kids.

    19. Artemesia*

      In my experience when that is considered a big plus you are in for rigid, moralistic and discriminatory behavior. Every person I have hired whose reference stressed his ‘high morals and good character’ has been a rigid difficult prig.

    20. Christian Apologist*

      This certainly sounds like a “red flag” to me. The thing that really bothers me is that, in my humble experience, people who place such a great emphasis on being a “Christian” tend to be the most un-Christian in their actual behavior. They’re the kind of people who give Christians a bad name.

      When I hear people talking about being “Christian” it’s like code for “I’m a douchebag (but hey, it’s O.K. because God will forgive me.)

  51. Not So Super-visor*

    My promotion went through! As of Christmas Day (due to our pay periods), I’ll be a manager. I guess I’ll have to come up with new punny handle to use for commenting.

  52. She's Leaving Home*

    I’m a (female) young professional just a few years out of college. I’ve lucked out and landed an amazing job (with help from AAM!) with a quickly growing communications firm. We are moving into a huge new office space next month, and I get my own office! My boss is encouraging us to decorate our spaces, but I’m struggling to figure out what I want to put up! As a young woman, I’m cautious of anything that will strike clients as too young, cutesy, or unserious. (Not that those are bad attributes! Just not what I want to put forward in the office.) Any advice on places to look for cool but professional office decor?

    1. Emmie*

      You can always watch your bosses to see what they put up. Corporette, a blog, has office tips for a conservative office. Heavenly has some blogs with office decor. You may have more relaxed rules b/c of your field, but congrats and good luck!

    2. TCO*

      I’d go for lamps, plants, framed art, maybe a comfortable chair or a bookshelf in the corner if you have space. Ikea would be a good starting point if you live near one; they have a good selection of modern designs at reasonable prices.

      I think you can make your art and furnishings reflect your interests and style while avoiding a “young” vibe. Aim for a semi-consistent color scheme (bold, muted, or black and white, for instance). Use boxes, organizers, etc. as a way to add style while containing clutter. Since you’re concerned about looking youngish, keep personal photos and the like limited–it’s okay to have a family/pet photo or two, but don’t line your desk with seven photos of your friends. Use frames or wrapped canvas art (again, Ikea would be a good starting point) rather than taping unframed items directly to your wall. One way I like to decorate is to use photos I’ve taken while traveling (of scenes, not people). It’s a way to have items that feel personal to me while still looking professional.

      It’s also okay to take your time decorating; in the meantime you can see how your coworkers are decorating and take cues from that. Workplace culture around office decor varies a lot–some offices welcome Christmas-type lights and concert posters, others will be more formal, some will tend towards a lot of personal items and others will keep things more neutral. Congrats on your new job!

    4. Temperance*

      So I went in the total opposite direction of you and my office is full of Funkos (including a beautiful new Rey!). That being said, a funky calendar is fine, photos of your pets/partner/friends are fine, etc.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      When in doubt less is more. Start by picking a couple well chosen things. If you can get creative find things tangent to the company’s work. If the company is old, old maybe a couple of pieces of antique advertising for the company?

      For me, my preference is to get all the furniture in place first, then decorate around the furniture. This means I don’t end up with a large picture right where I have to put the bookcase, because there is no other place to put a bookcase that size.

    8. Artemesia*

      I would get art posters or prints from a local museum and put those up. Pick something you love — obviously avoid anything that might be offensive, but you wouldn’t do that anyway. Art is often a good conversation piece and it is pleasant to work with things you like to look at.

  53. Thursday Next*

    Interview attire question. I’m currently a grad student in a STEM field and I have an on-campus interview for a post-doc position next month. So, I’m getting flown out to the university to give a research talk and meet with a bunch of people there. The university is located in the northern US, where winter high temperatures might be in the single digits (F). I have an interview outfit, but is it ok to wear a LL Bean winter coat, instead of a pea coat? I have a pea coat, but it’s more for “the high today is 30F” not “today’s high temp is 0F”. Since I’m flying there and it’s a 2 night visit I’m not going to bring both winter coats. Or, because it’s academia will no one really care?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      It’s academia *and* it’s in the north. Everybody else is probably going to be wearing a “real” winter coat too.

      1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

        Exactly. As long as your interview attire is professional, your outerwear shouldn’t matter.

    5. Science!*

      I’m in academia (Post-doc) in STEM in the northeast. We will not care, wear your warm coat. In fact at my institution, we would prefer you wear safe and comfortable shoes as well since it can be dangerous to walk on icy sidewalks.

      Actually I live in LLBean land, so if you wore that coat I’d happily comment on it and point out the outlet store down the street.

      1. Thursday Next*

        Thanks. Yeah, I’ll be wearing black, insulated ankle boots with a good tread so I should be safe enough on the shoe front. (I grew up in a similarly cold area so I was always taught to have the appropriate clothes to be comfortable for an hour outside, because a tow truck can take a while to come even in a city and trains can be delayed).

    6. TCO*

      As a northerner, I can assure you that function trumps form here in the winter! No one will blink twice if you’re wearing a parka; they will probably be wearing them too, especially in a field like academia. This is especially true if you’re coming from a warmer climate and they know that–they’ll be sympathetic. Since you’ll likely be walking around campus, it’s also totally fine to wear boots, a hat, scarf, mittens, or whatever else you need outside. We all understand that it’s a matter of survival!

    7. Yup*

      Totally fine! Someone I know who teaches at UChicago once told me it would even be fine to turn up in snowboots. I did – though changed into normal shoes indoors. If anything, the SC be impressed that you adapted to local conditions.

      Good luck!

    8. Ann Furthermore*

      Yeah, no one will care how it looks, and a coat/jacket that doesn’t look warm enough may spark conversation as well. I was recently in Boston and one evening when leaving the office, the woman I was working with on the client side looked at the light jacket I’d brought with me and said, “That’s not a pretty light jacket — are you going to be warm enough?” I told her that the temperature in Denver (where I live) was about what it was in Boston, so I had thought the jacket would be OK, but then realized when I got there that because there’s so much more moisture in the air from the ocean, it felt much colder outside, which I hadn’t considered.

    9. Thursday Next*

      Thanks everyone for the reassurance! I grew up in a a similarly cold area so I have all the appropriate outerwear, and I’ll be wearing insulated black ankle boots with a good tread, I was just a little worried about the coat as formality in academia (especially as a woman in a male dominated field) can be a fought topic.

    10. Cassandra*

      Speaking as a Frozen North denizen, yes, please wear that winter coat! It shows good judgment, and means your interviewers won’t be worried sick about you.

    11. Thursday Next*

      Hey, are you new to posting? Because this has been my user name for a bit. Just want to avoid confusion!

      1. Thursday Next*

        I meant new to posting on this site with this name. I tend to rush when I’m typing on mobile devices—sorry if I seemed brusque! =)

  54. Kat*

    I have a really anxiety-causing problem. I am the senior member of a team (a team lead). M manager is above me and below me are my team colleagues (at present I am the only one in my role on my team). This week my colleague contacted me to say she feels like there’s a problem between her and my manager, and it’s causing her extreme stress. She’s pregnant, so has been worried about the effect on her health plus work. She felt she couldn’t say ‘anything right’ and there was tension. She essentially wanted me to broach this with our manager (she works at home so perhaps also an element of this has come into play). As we are friends as well as colleagues, and as I try to do the best for my team, I said yes. Awkward extra part: the three of us used to be ‘best work friends’ until my manager became my manager and now of course she can’t do that any more, and my colleague went to work from home. So it’s become a different dynamic and things have had to change to adapt. I think it’s been hard for us all in different ways.

    So I went to my manager to tell her this after I’d weighed up what to say. It was INCREDIBLY awkward for me as I like them both and as I say we were all friends before, went out for dinner, etc. My manager didn’t blame me for being the messenger but she was obviously taken aback and didn’t have a clue this was how my colleague felt. She was clearly upset and after our meeting left the room for a while. My colleague wants to meet in the new year to sort things out, and she asked me to be there too to make it less daunting. I agreed, and my manager said that’s fine with her but not to do it if it’ll cause me anxiety. Which it will, but I mean, I feel I have to as my colleague asked and I know them both. It’s a small team and I want to help them both if I can.

    My question/issue is that I don’t know exactly what to do in this ‘mediator’ role. I’m my manager’s direct report and I’m senior to my colleague (although she used to be senior to me, oddly!) so I can’t really *do* anything, but I am happy to be a third person. I just don’t know how to approach it? Do I just sit there and hope it all goes fine, or am I supposed to help things along and act as a chairperson? I have no idea and I don’t think it’s anything any of us are used to. I’m used to helping colleagues and juniors but have no experience in actual people management except a management qualification. I’m mature and professional so I hope that’ll come through, but… I’m so unsure. I feel I gave my manager this to worry about over Xmas but I had to tell her. Ugh. I suppose I could *not* go to the meeting, but my colleague knows me well and I don’t know if she’d be OK with someone else there who isn’t that familiar with us all.

    1. LCL*

      Whew. Take a step back. This whole circle of feelings made my head hurt and I’m not sure I understand it all. I wouldn’t go to the meeting. You have done your part in raising your friend’s concerns to your manager. I understand your misgivings; mediators are supposed to be neutral. Your colleague reports to you and you both report to the manager, so you aren’t a neutral person.

      If you really want to help your friend/coworker, find some time to meet with her and identify specific examples of what has got her so stressed. Help her sort out the real from the smoke. Then she will be better prepared for the meeting.

      1. Kat*

        I don’t really have any feelings except just general concern that I’m not doing the right thing. I mean, obviously I want the situation resolved, but ultimately I know it’s between them. I didn’t put across clearly enough about the team organisation, sorry: we both report to the manager directly, it’s just that I am a more senior member of the team. So my colleague isn’t my direct report, but I am a rung up the ladder from her. She said she didn’t feel good about bringing it up with the manager and I guess that is why she asked me. I was worried about her stress levels with the pregnancy especially being a factor. I probably should have said no and told her to do it herself, but I have a ‘people pleaser’ streak and also she’s my friend.

        I think you’re right and I should say I’m not going to the meeting. It’s not till January so I can give it some thought, but yeah, I think this is the only way we can all be professional about it.

        1. Anony*

          Don’t go to the meeting. It sounds like it should be a one on one meeting between the two of them. Why is a mediator necessary at all? If there should be a mediator, then HR should be brought in, not you.

          1. Pollygrammer*

            This. I understand your sympathies, but there’s no way you come out of this with better relationships than you started.

          2. Kat*

            We don’t have HR because we’re too small, so that’s not an option for us. It wasn’t said exactly that I’d be mediating but I just didn’t know how else I could categorise it. I think if I do go I’ll just be observing, but then there seems little point in going at all. I’ll maybe speak to my manager when we’re back at work.

    2. fposte*

      In most situations, I really think people should talk to their bosses on their own; I think your team member should have done that directly with your boss, and I think she should meet with the boss without you. I don’t think it gets you much to pull out now, but I think the reason why you’re trying to figure out your role in the meeting is that you don’t really have a role in the meeting. (I also think this is running a high risk of falling into a friendship model that’s not going to carry well to work.) I would tell your team member that you’re there to support her but that you’ll be expecting her to carry the water of raising and discussing the issues with your boss. If there’s a situation where it could be useful for you to clarify or bring your own knowledge, that’s fine, but otherwise I’d stay in the background, and if your team member wants to bring you in more strongly encourage her to handle it herself.

      1. Kat*

        Yes, that makes sense. I was a bit caught in the middle, really. My manager has been really good at stepping back from friendships since she got promoted (I miss her, but I get it!) and it might be that my colleague is finding it hard to adapt to this new relationship and thinks there’s tension when really my manager is just doing her job and being less ‘friendly’.

        I agree she should have raised it directly. She had talked about going to someone else if I didn’t feel OK with it, so partly I wanted to ensure she didn’t put someone else in that position. I feel I’m old enough and senior enough to deal with this awkwardness, if nothing else. But I might reconsider going to the meeting.

        1. Anony*

          I don’t think mentioning the problem to your boss was wrong. There was an issue that she wasn’t aware of and now she knows. But from here out, I think adding another person raises the stakes instead of lowering them. It makes it into a BIG DEAL and implies that your coworker feels the need to be protected from her boss, which doesn’t sound like what is going on here.

          1. Pollygrammer*

            Especially because it sounds like you haven’t been witness to ANY evidence of their dynamic being a problem, you’ve just been told about it.

            1. Kat*

              I have seen one exchange that was super awkward and took me by surprise. I was copied in on a message that was just not a great conversation. I think it might have been this that was the trigger for my colleague speaking to me (it was the day after that she contacted me). But other than that, as my colleague works from home, I don’t get to see or hear what they say to each other.

          2. Kat*

            I don’t think she needs to be protected either. But when she asked I was a bit surprised, and I was like ‘yeah sure, whatever you need!’ because I wanted her to be reassured.

            1. lychee*

              > I wanted her to be reassured.

              But why? You really need to step back from mixing up being a senior colleague and a friend.

              1. Kat*

                Because she is my friend. I’m not responsible for her work or her professional development. In this situation I realise I can’t be neutral, and that’s fine, but I still care about her as a friend (which is indeed why I have to not be at the meeting). Plus, I didn’t really know what to do or how to react when she did say it. This has never happened to me before.

        2. Reba*

          I think your first paragraph here makes a lot of sense (adjustment to the friendship). Have you suggested that to the working from home colleague?

          If I were you I would try to gently disentangle myself from this situation altogether. Colleague’s relationship with Boss is her own. Don’t do the meeting, be supportive but boring/not engaging if Colleague talks to you about it.

          If nothing drastic has happened between colleague and manager (doesn’t sound like it from your description) I really can’t see why Colleague is seeking an intermediary–you sortof make sense as a mutual friend, but somebody, anybody else? I think you can offer your support and encouragement to your colleague but don’t make this into more of a big fraught deal than it needs to be (which I feel your participation as a referee? mediator? cheerleader? would do). Good luck! You sound like a kind and conscientious coworker.

          1. Kat*

            Thanks, I try my best! I tend to put others before myself (not in a ‘I’m so selfless’ way, in a way that means I don’t take good care of my own needs) and so I probably did that here a bit too. I think I will try to get out of this meeting. I’m glad I posted here because I can’t speak to anyone else at work about it and it’s been hard to see clearly what to do.

            I met my colleague for a coffee recently (nothing to do with this, she’s just nearby and we’re friends) and she did indicate that she was finding it hard to get used to having our mutual friend as her new manager. I found it hard too for a while until I came to terms with it, but then I see my manager every day whereas my colleague doesn’t often come to the office. It must be isolating for her.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              I hope you smile in that knowing kind of way. It’s these types of situations that taught me to know where my lines are and to clearly state my boundaries. It was not without discomfort and worry. Ironically it was BECAUSE of the extra discomfort and worry that I started drawing boundaries.

              While you sort where your lines are, hang on to the fact that you CAN say, “Would you give me a day to think about your request and I will call you back tomorrow?” This helps to avoid the automatic YES that seems to fall out of our mouths. You have bought yourself some time to ask a few questions of yourself:

              Do I need to be involved here?
              Can I contribute anything to the process?
              What, if anything am I actually willing to do here?

              I think you have nailed the problem because she has less personal interaction she does not see how things have changed for you, her and your boss. It’s pretty normal to grieve a friendship that seems to have slipped away. OTH, being a boss is a very important relationship in life. It’s our bosses who make sure we have food on our tables and a roof over our heads. So that boss-employee relationship has to take precedence over any friendship. We all have to eat and have shelter.
              You can also point out that it is a loving/friendship gesture to put the friendship to one side for the time being and make sure that the person keeps rocking their job so their basic needs at home are met.

              1. Kat*

                It has been a weird few months because of the change in dynamics, definitely. The other woman who is at the same level as me in the team is currently on maternity leave, so I’ve had that professional loss as well to deal with as I pretty much have been the only support for my manager in her new role, too. I’ve definitely been sad about losing my friend, even though I am happy for her, especially as a couple of other friends moved away this year too, and I don’t have a massive social circle.

                I think the people-pleasing streak in me took over in this instance, plus the fact I honestly didn’t know what I was supposed to do, so went with my instinct. At least now I know for next time and can try to extricate myself from this upcoming meeting.

  55. Master Bean Counter*

    Asking for a friend…
    How bad does it look it you shoo your boss out of your office while reaching for your airborne after he tells you that he caught what ever has taken out your coworker for two days? Take into consideration that the coworker is back and coughing so loud that people in the next country can hear?
    Also does it help things if you send out a very detailed email in hopes of avoiding having to sit in a meeting with both of them?

    1. JD*

      Eh assuming boss isn’t a stuffy one with no sense of humor it is fine. I have a pretty friendly relationship with my boss and I have more than once handed him a piece of gum when he was reading over my shoulder. ha

    3. paul*

      I’ve done it and don’t care what it looks like.

      I get sick enough from my kids, I don’t need it from my boss!

    4. fposte*

      Is this a planned meeting or are you trying to forestall a meeting that seems to be hovering on the horizon? I think it’s A-OK to email in hope of forestalling the latter; the former will depend on your relationship with your boss.

      1. Master Bean Counter*

        Thankfully the boss has a great sense of humor. And the email was an attempt to actually cancel the reschedule of a meeting that was supposed to happen this afternoon. But we’re all going home at noon and the issue needed to be addressed anyway. And the email worked, mostly because boss doesn’t want to be in a meeting with coworker either at this point.

      1. fposte*

        I think MBC meant “very detailed on the subject matter of the meeting,” not “very detailed about her dislike of rhinovirus.”

        1. Master Bean Counter*

          Exactly. It was basically just showing the leg work and explaining the reasoning behind the numbers. Which is exactly what would have been done in the meeting anyway. Why we have to have a meeting on this issue every month is a whole other subject.

  56. Boredatwork*

    TLDR: My co-worker keeps talking about his vasectomy – HELP

    I have a co-worker and I’m at a loss as to how to react to a situation:

    He had a very personal medical procedure done and keeps talking about it. I’m female, he’s male and the procedure involves reproductive choices. We are pretty good “co-worker” friends but guys I just can’t handle this. How do I respond?!

    The last interaction we had was after I avoided him for an entire week after the procedure was “completed”. He wanted to discuss how he was “doing” and I literally had to hide my stifled laughter. He’s extremely sensitive, and I’m worried I damaged our work relationship by laughing but come on! I don’t want to discuss my co-workers balls, I just don’t. I also have a rather dark sense of humor, and personally find this life choice (and decision to broadcast it) hilarious.

    I can’t use Allison’s standard, you’re making me uncomfortable, because he would be DEEPLY offended. We work closely together and I rely on having a solid collaborative relationship to do my job effectively. I’ll see him again after the holidays. What you I say?!

    1. Anony McAnonface*

      “I know it’s my own weird quirk, Brad, but I make it a habit not to discuss my coworker’s genitals. I know it’s hard to believe that in this the year of our lord 2018 I don’t want to talk about your balls, but I’m old-fashioned like that.”

      (I don’t actually recommend saying this)

      4. SC Anonibrarian*

        i totally feel like if he’s broadcasting his ‘snip’ to the world then that is a PERFECT thing to say.

    2. JD*

      How could there even be that much to talk about? He had it done, iced it down and now here we are. Even if it was a non testicle related procedure I wouldn’t want to hear this much about it.

      1. Boredatwork*

        You have no idea – he wanted to talk about it before, at a lot. I thought that if I gave it a week he’d let it die but he keeps bringing it up. Now I’ve straight up laughter at him.

    3. Amtelope*

      Can you say “Dude, TMI”? Or “Wow, I should probably not be hearing the details of this”? (I would be tempted to say “Please don’t tell me about your balls,” but I realize that isn’t the response you’re looking for.)

      1. Boredatwork*

        I’ve tried to just steer the conversation away from it, but it’s all he’s wanted to talk about for a month. I also work in an office where we “share” a lot of stuff.

        My main problem is, I laughed at someone who is very sensitive about something most men would keep very private.

    4. Mr. Demeanor*

      Is it making you uncomfortable? If it is, anyone who is a friend, work or otherwise, should respect that. If they can’t, then your relationship very well might change but you have a right to set boundaries and limits.

      Here’s what I’d do. If he brings up the subject you wait until he pauses, be silent for a few seconds, and then change the subject to something entirely different. If he tries to bring it back up – you can say “I’m sorry, I just don’t want to discuss this topic. Can we please move on from this?” Repeat as necessary.

    5. Red Reader*

      Hopefully he just won’t bring it up again after the holidays? But if he does, maybe a frank “Look, dude, I think you’re awesome and we work really well together, and part of the reason for that is that we have conversational boundaries, and I’d like it if one of those conversational boundaries was to not discuss our individual sex lives or decisions pertaining to same. It’s not you, I’m glad you’re happy with your decision, but your pants are an area where I cannot be your discussion buddy.”

      1. Boredatwork*

        This is literally the exact thing I want to say, but I’m worried I’ll hurt his feelings. But I think I just have to suck it up and say I’m not comfortable discussing his sex life.

          2. Boredatwork*

            Honestly who knows, I would imagine he’s thinking about what I said and stewing over it. I have apparently “hurt his feelings before”.

            If I didn’t have to work extremely closely with him I’d worry less, but I laughed at a sensitive coworker because he was discussing a ridiculous topic.

    6. JoAnna*

      if he brings it up — “I’m super squeamish about medical details so I’d really rather not discuss this. Thanks for understanding!” And change the subject.

      Or, “Wow, that’s a lot more personal than I’m really comfortable discussing with you. Let’s talk about X instead.”

      1. Boredatwork*

        That was the reason for my inappropriate laughter. It’s just so personal. I’ll try being more direct.

    7. Anony*

      Well, hopefully he will be healed enough after the holidays that he won’t bring it up again. If he does then you probably have to let it be awkward. Which can you deal with more: listening to him talk about it or offending him by telling him to stop. Because I think that those are your choices. Personally, I would let him feel offended.

    8. Interviewer*

      If you can’t say something for fear of offending him, and changing the subject doesn’t work, I’d take it straight to HR – especially if he’s talking to other people about it, too. Insisting on talking about your genitals at work is just straight up nonsense.

      1. Boredatwork*

        This would be a huge overavtion in my industry. Other than wanting to talk about it he’s been respectfully vague. He’s been no more graphic than the woman I work with who had a C-Section.

    9. Lissa*

      Focus on the fact that you don’t want to hear *medical* details, rather than the fact that it’s reproductive in nature, is my advice, even if that’s not true. If you make it about “you’re talking about your sex life” he’s likely to be extremely abashed and embarrassed, which you say you want to avoid doing (if you didn’t care then sure go the “stop talking about your balls” way!)

      Some people, even me until recently, would not realize there’s a difference between saying “I just had my gallbladder out” and “I had a vasectomy” for squick level for some people, because for some of us, there isn’t! (then again I tell my friends I’m hoping to get spayed soon, so you know, different strokes. And no I would NOT do this at work!)

      Being squicked by medical stuff is less likely to make him feel like he has done something wrong (and to forestall the “well he should feel like that” some people might think, Boredatwork specifically says she does not want to offend him.)

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This is what I would do. “Sorry, I can’t get into talking about any surgeries. I get an upset stomach when I try.”

        I have a friend who does not get it when I say stuff like this, so I repeat the exact same set of words while he continues talking. Sometimes I repeat it three or four times before he hears me. “NO, I really mean it and I am asking you to respect that.” Only my tone of voice is more like a statement than a question.

    10. Temperance*

      lol so I might have said something like “STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR DONG, FRANCIS” but I wouldn’t even know what to do.

      1. Chaordic One*

        This reminds me of a certain mail co-worker who had a certain body part pierced and who kept wanting to show it it to me.

        No, Fergus, I do not want to see your piercing. If you like it, fine, but I don’t want to see it! No! No! No!

  57. Sour Grapes (for this)?*

    So, I’m trying not to be annoyed by this and could use some tough love! My boss got all the other employees at my level (senior managers) personal gifts worth about $500. He did not get me a gift at all – because he took me to an expensive dinner a couple weeks go.

    Dinner with the boss is…really not a treat. I mean, the restaurant was lovely and I do appreciate him being generous in taking me, but it was a required business event (taking time away from my family that evening and requiring me to spend personal funds on extra child care hours) during which the conversation was entirely work-related. Meals with the boss are incredibly stressful because he has all sorts of weird food issues, that involve micromanaging what other people are eating and being extremely judgmental if anyone has bread, wants dessert, etc. I get through these events by reminding myself it isn’t a personal discretionary meal that’s supposed to be fun, it’s a work performance activity with particular behavioral expectations. And that’s fine, work is full of those types of obligations – but it isn’t a “gift,” regardless of the cost of the food and drink being served.

    I should just get over it, right? My boss otherwise is great, very supportive and an excellent mentor; I guess I’m just feeling a little underappreciated and left out.

    1. WellRed*

      Did he specifically say that’s why he didn’t get you a gift? That totally sucks, but also, yes, you will have to get over it because there is really nothing you can do that I can think of.

      1. Sour Grapes (for this)?*

        Yes, he said the dinner was my gift. (He actually said [details changed of course] “I wasn’t going to get you a separate gift because I took you to dinner at the FancyPants Inn last week, but I was thinking of getting Arya, Sansa and Bran a platinum tea cozy – what do you think?” But the dinner wasn’t even paid by him personally, it was paid (or at least reimbursed).

        Oh well, I will get over it. I don’t need a platinum tea cozy, even if I would have enjoyed having one and appreciated the thought, and at least I got face-time with the boss which is valuable even if the surrounding food issues were stressful.

        1. Pollygrammer*

          He doesn’t sound like the most rational guy. I would be annoyed, but I wouldn’t get my feelings hurt.

        2. Bostonian*

          Ugh. His reasoning is a load of crap, but maybe he’s worried about optics? (He gives you a gift AND takes you out to an expensive dinner, and everyone else *just* gets expensive gift) I don’t agree with that assessment at all, but I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

        3. Thlayli*

          It sounds like he thinks the dinner is the BETTER gift. He’s wrong of course, but maybe it will help you feel better if you remember he gave you what he thought was the best gift coz he thinks you’re so awesome.

        4. Artemesia*

          ‘I thought that was a business dinner.’ But beyond that nothing to be done and yeah I’d be pissed too.

    2. Goya de la Mancha*

      You should get over it, but mostly because there’s nothing that can be done. I think your feelings on the matter are spot on.

    3. Sloane Kittering*

      Yeah blergh but hopefully the fact that he only took you out for one on one networking, out of everyone at your level, means that he really wants to invest in your career? A one time gift is far less valuable than personal assistance in your development, nominating you for a raise or promotion, etc?

      1. Sour Grapes (for this)?*

        Yes, that’s a great way of looking at it. I know he is starting to view me as a right-hand person, even if the other senior managers are technically at the same level as me. His time is very valuable and he invested that in me. Thanks for the change in perspective! I feel much better thinking of it that way.

        1. Reba*

          I agree with SK! It does sound like your boss is a bit of a clod when it comes to gift giving, but at the same time (at least in his logic) he is singling you out for something valuable.

  58. Madam Anon*

    I’m nearing the end of my 2nd month in my new job at a nonprofit and my boss/management team is driving me batty.

    I don’t know how to be a good Executive Admin when our staff:

    A. Doesn’t answer email for days, then rushes around in a panic at an impending meeting and getting things together.

    B. Management has so many meetings that it’s virtually impossible to get direction on what to do or move forward, particularly since I don’t attend those meetings.

    C. My boss is gone for a large chunk of the day, then wants to talk shop and plan things the last hour I’m here. (Meaning nothing gets planned)

    D. My boss is not computer savvy at all. Frustrating when she gets on me technology wise for something out of my control.

    I would love some ideas on how to combat this, but mainly just venting.

    Happy Holidays to all!

    1. fposte*

      Well, that sounds like a fun start! Some random thoughts in case the venting isn’t enough on its own:

      A) accept that’s the org norm and plan around it

      B) identify some key meetings and ask if you can sit in

      C) set aside the last hour of the day as planning time for the next and come with an agenda

      D) swear silently and blame the software out loud

  59. ab15*

    Hey all,
    Wondering how to thank the president of my company for our christmas bonuses. They were pretty low, but my direct boss wants us all to send him an email thanking him and cc her on it – any generic language I could use would be appreciated!!

    1. Sloane Kittering*

      This seems weird to me, by the way – very feudal. But I’d go for something vague, like, Dear Boss, happy holidays to you and your family (even better if you know his religion). I wanted to express my appreciation for the end of year bonus, it really makes a difference to us. All the best, ab15

  60. Nervous Accountant*

    Guys I’m all over the place rn

    -my title changed to supervisor of bla bla bla so….yay?

    -I’m reviewing returns, no more tax preparation for next season :(

    -I have a coworker who can be pretty annoying (Annoying Cw or AC for short). But I have another coworker who’s just an obnoxious prick (Obnoxious Coworker or OC) and he was hating on AC/AC’s’s lifestyle, but AC got OC as Secret Santa. I told him to just not get him anything bc he’s an ass, but maybe I should have MMOB

    -My last day before going on vacation. I’m happy to be on vacation but I will really miss some of my coworkers while I’m gone, but yay vacation! I’ve been coming in early to get everything out of the way and make sure nothing happens while I’m gone. I have a better team this year who can help handle if anything happens (unlike last year). Fingers crossed!

    -It’s our last day before xmas break and we did a secret santa. I also got gifts for a few other people–got in to the spirit at the last minute. I think I went overboard with my gift but it was worth it!

    -my mgr gave me a gift, that was pretty awesome. My secret Santa got me a lovely gift.

    -my coworker is wearing a sweater with cats wearing a Santa hat and the sweater lights up. I love it so much.

    Merry Christmas & happy holidays everyone!

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        She told me it’s available at Walmart, I can’t do anything on my computer but I can try to find a link on my phone

  61. Decima Dewey*

    I have been an acting branch manager since mid-July. And HR keeps sending stuff regarding my branch to the previous branch manager. Then, instead of putting the documents in interoffice mail or emailing me that she’s doing so, previous branch manager insists on phoning me. What she calls about is never urgent, and some of her questions indicate she’s not reading emails from others (she didn’t know Achsah, who used to work at this branch, was returning to University City branch. This was mentioned in the most recent Staff on the Move email).

    For the present, I have to take the calls. She’ll have input on my performance review. Once I’ve had that review, I plan to tell my staff to not put the calls through to me and take a message.

  62. Danae*

    So I posted a little bit ago about having a contract job that I love, but also having an opportunity for an FTE job that I’d take a 20% pay cut for but that would be much more stable going forward.

    Well, I’m still in the running for the FTE position…but I just got a -really- nice raise on the contract job. I’m now in “this is too much money to walk away from” territory, and if the contract lasts for the next year (which it is very likely to) I will be in a really good financial place at the beginning of 2019.

    And I do love the job I’m doing, and both the company I work for and the contracting agency…and what I’m doing now is serious resume building stuff. So unless the offer from the folks with the FTE job offer me scads of cash, I’m going to stick with the contract position.

    It feels weird, but it also feels right, and I think I have a real chance at a full time position here eventually. And in the meantime, I’m going to pay off all this debt and get my finances back in order.

  63. Ruth (UK)*

    I started my new job 3 weeks ago and I think it’s going ok but it’s all very confusing! I’m in an admin role at a university and I am feeling a little overwhelmed by everything at the moment. I realise I can’t go into a new job and just know how to do everything but in the moment(s) I just spend a lot of time feeling a bit stupid.

    On the upside, I have generally had good feedback so far. Though I’m also having a little bit of what I suppose is ‘impostor syndrome’ as everyone seems convinced I am really good at using excel. I would say I know the most basic usage of excel but nothing above that.

    Anyway, I’m feeling a little ‘homesick’ for my old job even though this one is better in many ways (more pay, more holiday, more interesting, more opportunity to advance, etc). I suppose I just miss feeling like I knew what I was doing, and the familiarity etc. But my old boss was a minor jerk (nothing compared to a lot of posts here but generally disliked and not very pleasant) and so far my new boss seems the opposite of him. I know 3 weeks is a short amount of time to judge, but I’ve got the strong impression that others in the department see her as highly competent and she seems generally well-liked etc.

    I also underestimated how tired I’d be from being in a new job – I guess it takes a lot of effort to be somewhere totally new/different. However, as mentioned earlier in this post, I have notably more leave than I got before, and that includes the whole uni being shut (paid) from now until 2nd January.

    I’ve also so far managed to successful navigate a departmental holiday gathering-thing and an xmas meal without anything dreadful happening, which is always good.

    1. Sloane Kittering*

      There’s always a wistfullness when you go from being the confident Big Fish in the Small Pond to the reverse, but in six months you’ll be just as confident and comfortable in your new duties and you’ll all those other perks to boot. Hang in there! Also: some folks are just terrible at excel (or word, or outlook). It can be correlated with age. You are indeed a wizard to them, so just accept it.

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        Obviously I’m familiar with the big fish/small pond analogy but for some reason just now, it seems more specifically a perfect description I guess.

        I went from a small company (10 people) with this set up: director, manager, senior admin, 7 other admins (of which I was one). The only role I could have realistically progressed into was senior admin, but the current one was unlikely to leave any time in the next decade or so. The hierarchy was linear as there was only us.

        Now I’m in a university with multiple departments and there are admin staff, academic staff, tech people, maintenance people, students (of which there are undergrads, and post grads and so on), and an HR department and so on and so on.

        So yeah, it feels like I’ve been scooped out of a pond where I guess I was the same size fish as most of the others, with a couple bigger ones about, and been dumped in an ocean filled not just with fish, but all sorts of other creatures too!

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      The end of one job and the beginning of another are always going to feel different. And yes, it is hugely tiring starting a new job! Hang in there!

  64. AvonLady Barksdale*

    Because it’s around the holidays and there’s a lot to reflect on, I have to share a good office story.

    Earlier this week, I was hit by a car while crossing the street. I am fine (bruised and achey, and my meds are starting to give me a low-grade headache, but otherwise fine) and my dog is fine. But I am very grateful for my job right now. It has its issues and its moments, but when I came into work later that morning, everyone was super concerned and supportive (I had emailed one co-worker who spread the news, which was basically, “Holy s**t, AvonLady got hit by a car!”). I was a little flaky for a couple of days, but that was ok. And more than that, my company provides excellent benefits; I met my insurance deductible when I injured my knee, so I won’t have any out of pocket expenses.

    My boyfriend and his friend’s all thought I was crazy for even going in that afternoon, but I needed to get back to normal and I needed to show all of these supportive people that I was, indeed, doing ok. After the last, hellish place I worked, this is such a lovely change.

    1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      Wow, glad you are okay! I’m sure your co-workers would have been understanding if you took the rest of the day off though, heck, I would have! Take care of yourself.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        I took most of the next day off, and what work I did do, I did from home. It was the right move, since the day after was MUCH worse than the day of! Also, I forgot to mention that I got to the office just in time for a free (and excellent) lunch. :)

        1. Purplesaurus*

          That’s usually how it goes, for me anyway (day after being worse). I’m glad you’re on the mend and that your workplace is supportive. It’s sad that the latter isn’t always a given.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Shock is a very good pain killer. The fact that you started feeling the pain kind of telegraphs that you are working through the shock.

          I remember falling off a motorcycle at 60 mph. I had NO pain for at least 12 hours. Then the pain came…sigh.
          I am glad that this was not worse than it could have been, but I am sorry and upset to hear this happened to you.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Also, I just realize that I put an apostrophe in “friend’s” and I’m kicking myself and maybe I’m not as “better” as I thought…

      1. Sloane Kittering*

        It makes me sad to think that we live in a country where people’s whole lives can be thrown into disarray by a minor accident like this, if their jobs are NOT kind and caring (such as by offering leave, or medical insurance, or medical insurance that isn’t crap).

    4. anon for this one*

      Aw, I’m glad you’re okay (and so is the pupper). I’m feeling kind of the opposite right now about anyone here giving a rat’s patoot, and it really does make a huge difference.

    5. AnotherAlison*

      Glad you are okay, but I am somewhat obsessed with brain injuries right now, so be sure your noggin is okay, even if you feel fine! A woman I work with got a concussion in a sports accident, didn’t tell anyone, but acted like a total spaz for months. It would have been so much better for her (health and work rep) to have taken the time off and recovered.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Thanks! I’m ok. I lack attention to detail on a good day, and the adrenaline and stress have made things a little worse than usual. I also have effed up sinuses and eustachian tubes, so more Flonase will help the headache. I already have a follow-up appointment where I will make sure they triple-check my head (which I didn’t hit when I fell– though I know that’s not necessarily an indicator that I didn’t do any trauma).

  65. Incognito*

    My new job turns out to be not so great for me. Part of it is still suffering from burnout and not being fully recovered from the toxic environment I left, and part of it is a difficult GrandBoss. The commute is also awful, which I did not expect because I live only 4 miles away. I like the company. I like my other co-workers. I’m disappointed it’s not working out.

    I told myself I’d stick it out for a year, but I think the best thing to do for my health regardless of any other issues is to cut my working hours down below 30. The best way I can do that and support myself is through contracting. Luckily, this is a huge thing in my field since short term project needs fluctuate so much. It’s easy to do through an agency, and pays extremely well.

    I thought about trying to cut my hours down in my current job, but the person who runs the show doesn’t understand my role, the regulatory requirements for the project, and has been doing things that are my job and totally out of her wheelhouse. She thinks she knows what she’s doing, but it’s completely wrong and most of what I’ve been doing is a lot rework, education around my function, and education around non-negotiable regulatory requirements.

    The problem is she is convinced she knows it all and refuses to believe anything contrary to whatever vision is already in her head, even when presented with documented proof. She responds to that by sending out irrelevant information she found on a google search claiming it proves she is right and we can do it her way, but if I have any documentation that says otherwise please send it to her. So I stop what I’m doing to address the issue.

    This is EXACTLY what I did not want to be doing in a new job! One of the reasons I left my old job was to get away from something very similar.

    Hoping 2018 is a better year for me! I am looking forward to working reduced hours next year. If my next job isn’t so great, the fact that is it less hours and temporary will at least make it palatable.

  67. AnnaleighUK*

    Just dropping in to say a Merry Christmas to everyone and I hope you have a much more constructive last day at work before the break than my office did. I tied up some projects but the majority of the day was devoted to making structurally sound gingerbread skyscrapers.

    In other work news, I found out today that my department director has hired three people to start in January that we initially rejected when we interviewed them earlier this year. But apparently they’ve been in and interviewed again just with him, and he’s hired them, sooo my department is getting a new staff member in the new year. I don’t mind, we are busy and could use an extra person but I’m sure there were reasons we rejected these people first time round so I wonder why he decided to hire them after another interview…

    Anyway, I’m off to catch a flight this evening to visit my parents for the holiday, so I shan’t even think about that till January. Merry Christmas AAM commenters!

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Well that sounds pretty constructive to me. Now the gingerbread people can enjoy high rise living. Plus it sounds fun. Sweet, edible fun…

      We spent this afternoon drinking my boss’s home mulled wine, naming members of 90s boy bands, and believing my line manager when she told us Dick van Dyke had a near death experience at sea and claimed to have been rescued by porpoises. We figured she was finding the wine extra potent until she produced actual news articles about it.

      Merry Christmas!

  68. Cloud Nine Sandra*

    O M G my contract might be becoming permanent. Which I was told was not possible when I was hired, but I guess I managed to make a good case last time I asked about it happening in the future. OMG benefits. I might go to the dentist. I won’t work on MLK day but I still might get paid! It’s been so long! (Possibly. Probably? Keeping expectations tiny though all signs to point to yes.)

  69. AndersonDarling*

    This is a good time of year to remind myself that my work isn’t that bad. Sometimes I get hung up on little things and make them big things, but then I remember all the wacky/wild/horrific letters that are written to AAM and I remember that I have a pretty darn good job. Happy Holidays!

  70. Anonynonynon*

    So, accepted a new job in beginning of November in government. It’s not a good fit at all. Out of the blue, my previous employer contacted me about a promotion, 10% raise and some fixes to issues that I’d reported during my exit interview.

    I’m likely to accept the position at my last employer. That being said, is two weeks notice still pretty customary? I’m still in the ‘shadowing’ phase so I have nothing to transition, nobody to train and no projects. Most of my time is spent sitting around waiting for something to happen to learn. Would it be outrageous to give two weeks but offer to end the employment immediately? It doesn’t make any sense to teach me anything else during the two week period but I don’t want to burn the possibility of future employment completely by just leaving.

    Thoughts?

      1. Sloane Kittering*

        Alison answered this exact question about someone who wanted to leave in the training period, and I believe she said this was an exception to the usual rule because it doesn’t make sense for them to continue training you if you’re leaving. Can’t find the question now of course.

    2. Teal Green*

      I was in basically this position at one point. I had more work than it sounds like you do but I was still in training. My previous employer contacted me about coming back, same position but a new title, substantial raise, and some fixes to issues. I gave new employer two weeks notice but when I talked to my manager told him that I would understand if they would rather I left sooner. Surprisingly they did have me work my notice period. Just be aware that leaving at this point is likely to hurt your chances of future employment with that employer, though maybe government is different enough from private employers that it won’t.

  71. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

    Does anyone have a feel good year end work story? I started a new job in the fall. It was supposed to be part-time but because of staff shortages I became full-time almost immediately. I loved the job and worked extra hours without complaint. The best thing of all was that I was rewarded. I received a year end bonus, a raise and a lovely thank you card from the higher-ups. The bonus was nice but even nicer was the acknowledgement that my hard work was appreciated and didn’t go un-noticed.

    1. anon24*

      My favorite end of year work story.

      As a teen I worked at a small business staffed mostly by other teens/college students and older retired guys. The economy crash really hit them hard, they were barely keeping the doors open, and since we were all part time employees, we didn’t get bonuses or anything at Christmas. I liked my job and had a reputation for being one of the harder workers (not boasting, it’s relevant). One year at Christmas, the owner came in and handed out Christmas cards. I assumed it was just a generic card, and didn’t open mine right away because I was busy. At the end of my shift, I offered to drive home another employee who didn’t have a license. We got into my car and he noticed I hadn’t opened my card and told me to open it because he had gotten a hundred dollar bill as a Christmas gift from the owner. I opened my card and $250 fell out onto my lap. I’ll never forget that moment. It was dead silence in my car as we both just stared at the money, which was a huge amount for both of us. My co-worker finally found his voice and congratulated me, and I managed to get him home before I started crying. I felt so appreciated.

    2. Pollygrammer*

      This isn’t much of a story, but ~I~ feel good about it–I’ve started enjoying my job! After about 9 months of vacillating between “meh” and “I’m going to get up from this desk, walk out and never come back!”

      But I’ve gotten used to it! I realized that all the deeply eccentric habits my boss has have stopped driving me crazy and started making me laugh. I’ve learned how to handle her (well…manipulate–but only in harmless ways!) pretty effectively. There are plenty of other people my boss drives crazy, one who’s quit because of her, and I feel very accomplished in finally figuring out how to work with her and even feel entertained by her crazy, stressed-out and aggressive rants. Once you’ve been able to switch someone in your head from “awful” to “hilariously ridiculous” things get SO much easier.

      I’m not really dedicated or emotionally invested and I’m not going to be staying for more than another year, but I feel more adaptable than I’ve ever been in my life and I’m thrilled about it.

    3. KarenK*

      I do! My change of title (from program coordinator to program manager), which I thought was going to end up being largely symbolic, comes with a $12,000 raise, plus, my merit raise is being calculated on my new salary! This will affect all the people who do the same job I do, and is the result of my grandboss’ efforts over the past three years. Yay!

  72. Theresa*

    How do you pull back from “caring” so much at work? I’m starting to become really frustrated with my boss an my position, but I am probably only going to be here for maybe a year and a half… and I need to just let myself pull back and care less about everything I do here. Can this be done? Does this even make sense?

    1. Lumen*

      Find something outside of work and put a lot of your energy into it. It can be dating, team sports, learning an instrument, writing a novel, joining a club to argue about philosophy, get into running. Just: find stuff to care about that has nothing to do with work.

      When you are AT work and need to focus on work but not be so emotionally invested, take a break. Even for just a few minutes, literally step away from your desk, take a breath, and pull yourself back. This is hard to explain, but the way someone said it to me when I was feeling the same way was: give them LESS of yourself. Reserve yourself for yourself.

      Mini mantras: “This is not my future.”
      “I can get this done without caring so much.”
      “Good thing I only have to put up with that a few more months.” (it can be ‘a few more months’ for a long time)

      1. Sloane Kittering*

        For me it’s also “I’m being paid good money to deal with these frustrations in a pleasant way.” If it wasn’t annoying, they wouldn’t have to pay me.

    2. Windchime*

      After a hellish couple of years at my old job that ended in a fiery crash (metaphorically), I came to realize that work doesn’t really matter that much. For me, the important thing in life is relationships with friends and family. I’ve decided to make that my focus. I have landed in a really good job with really nice people, but I am decidedly less invested in the potential drama that most jobs have. Guy who sits next to me and never works, just talks all day? Not my problem; that’s why I have noise-canceling headphones. Crappy commute? Time to pull out my kindle or nap. Boring work? Oh well. I’m getting paid to do it while sitting in a comfortable chair and a flexible schedule. And at the end of the day, spending time with family and loved ones is what it’s all about (for me).

      So that’s how I pulled back. I just decided to focus on the “real” part of my life, which is my kids and my siblings and my friends. The other stuff is just things that happen during the day so I can have money to afford to support myself.

  73. hopeful EMT*

    Tuesday I graduated from EMT school. I’m still not a certified EMT until I hopefully pass the National Exams (2 tests) in January, but I’m so happy that I made it through school. I quit my job to go to this school, even though it’s only an evening class. I wouldn’t have had time to make it from my job to school. I was going to take a part time job instead, but my husband asked me to just focus on school (yay for him! he’s worked so hard to make this happen for me). I put my heart and soul into this class, because I’ve wanted to go into EMS for so long, even though it’s long hours and very low pay. It paid off, because I won the Academic Achievement Award for the best grade in the class!

    Then I had a job interview on Wednesday, with the EMS company that partners with my college to offer the class. I was told I was interviewing with one person, but it ended up being someone else… who happened to be present at graduation when I won my award, and who I had a nice conversation with after the ceremony (completely oblivious that he would be my interviewer). I honestly don’t know how well my interview went, because I don’t interview well. I was mortified because I had spent last weekend visiting family for Christmas, and they have a very dry house, which led to my throat becoming super irritated. By the time Wednesday came around I was completely hoarse, and couldn’t say much more than one sentence at a time. I had so much more I wanted to say, but couldn’t get it out. I did explain why I sounded like I was dying. I also had to do some testing with them, and it seemed to go really well. The person who tested me happened to be the person who tested me for part of my final exam at school. He let me skip some steps because he was already satisfied I was competent in those areas after seeing me perform them at school. Yay!

    I want to work for this company so badly. I did my field training with them and just fell in love. Pay sucks, but the benefits are way better than any other job I’ve held. They said I’ll hear from them in a couple weeks, but even if they choose to offer me the job I still have to get certified. Here’s hoping! I’ve been so miserable with all the jobs I’ve worked before, and I want so badly for things to get better!

    1. nep*

      Wow, nice work. Congratulations on your accomplishments. Fingers crossed.
      Always appreciative of what EMS and all first-responders do, day in and day out. Thank you.

    2. ..Kat..*

      Good luck. Becoming a certified EMT was a first step for me in moving from one field into health care. I loved the work I did as an EMT , and eventually segued into nursing (much better paying). But, the time I spent in EMS was both rewarding and valuable.

  74. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    So. I came in to a box of candy on my desk this morning. It’s my dad’s (who died two years ago this month) favorite. In fact, he bought himself a box the night he died. So I have an abnormally strong reaction.

    I don’t know what to do with them. I’ve moved it out of my line of my site because it was upsetting me. Two people have put theirs in the lunchroom. I thought about doing the same…but I feel kind of guilty doing that. Which is stupid, I know. It’s an extremely kind gesture and I’m very grateful for the thought.

    1. STG*

      If you aren’t comfortable putting them in the breakroom, I’d probably look for a way to discretely dispose of them personally. If I stashed them out of sight, I’d be worried that I’d forget about them completely….until I found them again and it caused an emotional reaction again.

    2. Lumen*

      Don’t feel guilty! I doubt the box has your name on it, identifying who put theirs in the lunchroom. It’s unlikely anyone will confront you about a box of candy, and if someone does ask (maybe they are worried they gave you something you’re allergic to and want to do better next year), you can just breeze it off: “Oh, I’m just trying not to overdo it on sweets this time of year, so I thought it’d be better to have it off my desk, right in front of me! Thank you so much though, that was very kind and I was wondering who brought it in!”

    3. Sloane Kittering*

      Go out and find somebody to give it to, and tell yourself it’s honoring your father’s sense of charity?

    4. fposte*

      I give you full permission to quietly stuff it in the garbage if that solves your problem. You appreciate the point of the gift; it doesn’t have to be consumed by a human to fulfill it.

    5. Artemesia*

      Anyone you can regift to? I’d give it to a homeless guy on the corner before throwing it away — or the doorman, or the garage guy, or the mail carrier, or someone who might like it.

      Sorry that a kind gesture touched a nerve — sometimes the universe does not properly align.

      1. Her Grace*

        Yes, this.

        The very thing that brought you grief could be a source of joy to someone else. The mere fact you made someone else happy might ease your own pain. Go ahead and give it to someone who need a little brightness in their day.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      When someone gives us a gift, it is ours to do what we wish with the gift. They have let go of it, it is no longer theirs. If we wish to toss it in the garbage, then we can do just that.

      I think the bigger issue is the grief you are feeling. Perhaps go home and light a candle in your dad’s memory. Or make a donation to charity. Or go visit one of his friends if you know that person would be THRILLED to see you. Whatever you think of that makes sense to you.

      I don’t think we ever stop missing our parents. While that longing may change, it may become less intense or it may stop interrupting our ability to function, the sorrow remains. It’s important to acknowledge to ourselves, “Yep. I am always going to miss this person.”

  75. Goya de la Mancha*

    Applied for a job posting that closed earlier this week. Not my ideal job or anything, but from what I can tell in my research it would be a significant pay raise for me (they did not give a salary range in the posting). I’m assuming that because of the holidays, they probably won’t do much with the applications until after the new year – but still makes me anxious that I haven’t heard anything outside the “We received your application/resume” email. Is it normal for things to be put off during the holiday season when it comes to hiring?

    1. Lumen*

      I think it depends on the company, but I’d guess that’s all it is. Maybe they’re gathering resumes during the break and plan on hitting hiring hard when they get back. Take some deep breaths and keep applying to other jobs. Think of it this way: if they snooze, they lose! You’re a catch!

  76. Tea Fish*

    Sometime in the next 3-5 years, I’d like to take a year off from working, just living off my savings and doing whatever. I’m not worried about this from a financial perspective, but I am a little concerned about how it will look on my resume in the long run– like I should have some legitimate “reason” to not work for a little while, instead of “Well, I can and I want to.” I live in the US, and I feel like the work culture here is very much “if you can work, you should be working,” and the concept of taking time off just to take time off is seen as alien and like some sort of personal moral failing.

    Down the line, what would be the best way to explain this to potential employers? Should I come up with some kind of culturally acceptable excuse? One of the reasons I want to take a year off is to spend some of that time with aging and ailing family members, but that’s far from the biggest reason and it feels a little skeevy to present it as such, but it’s also not untrue. I also don’t really want people making assumptions about my marital and family status as a result of my time away, but don’t know if there’s any way to really prevent that.

    1. Sloane Kittering*

      You could start your own contracting company or nonprofit during this time, maybe. Even if it’s just a small company or an etsy page. Even if it’s not successful at all, I’d think you could pitch a pretty sympathetic version of the truth in which you pursued your dream of starting a small business and now you’re ready to return to the real world.

      1. Tea Fish*

        I actually am planning on opening a small etsy store and pursuing that as a source of revenue, though I’m not really planning on making it a full time thing or even expecting to make a lot of bank from it. That does sound like a good pitch though, if I wanted to play up the sympathy end of things.

    2. Red Reader*

      I took a year and a half off and did pretty much that – saved up enough money to live on for the year, bolstered by a small unexpected inheritance, and moved across the country (from a high COL area in the PNW to a much lower COL area in the midwest, closer to where I was born) and stayed completely unemployed for a year and had a minimum wage part-time “get me out of the house” type job for another six months before returning to my career field. Nobody even batted an eyelash. Like, the recruiter for my returning-to-the-career job didn’t even ask about the lapse. I did a lot of traveling during my year, both domestically and a six-week trip around Europe, which was one of my best experiences of my life.

      But I also don’t think there’s anything *wrong* per se with saying something like, “I had the opportunity to not work for a little while and instead focus on traveling, helping some family members and working on personal projects,” even if it’s not necessarily 100% true.

      1. Sloane Kittering*

        I don’t mean to seem rude here, but are you by any chance a male? I just hear such a different account from my female friends who cut back to take care of children / grandparents for even just a few years, when they try to return the workplace. Even though their skills are hardly expired, they just can’t get back in the door. I hope I’m not offending you to ask.

        1. Reba*

          Yeah, unfortunately I think if you are a woman some people will assume you had a kid. Which may or may not matter.

          That’s another reason to have your narrative set: pursuing personal projects and travel goals [or whatever]!

          I hope it works out and you have a great time.

          1. Sloane Kittering*

            Yaay! I do think it helps to be able to talk about what you left to DO … and moms/caregivers are handicapped by the convention that it’s not great to talk about family stuff or children in the workplace.

            1. Red Reader*

              It’s probably worth noting that I *do* work in an extremely female-heavy industry – I’m in health care administration, and literally 90% of my reports and the next four (at least) levels of management above me are all women. So gender may have been relevant in my experience, admittedly.

      2. Tea Fish*

        Oh good, it’s really reassuring to hear that job recruiters didn’t mind or care about the gap. I also really want to take that time to travel, but was afraid that it would sound just too frivolous.

    3. yup*

      I posted something similar up above… DO IT…. It may take you longer to find another job, but you will not be forever unemployable.

      When you are ready to come back into the job market, be honest… “I realized that I had a lot of personal goals and dreams to work on, so I decided to save money, take a year off and just focus on myself with X, Y and Z projects.” For every person/ potential employer that judges, you will find one that respects you, envies you and wishes they had done the same thing.

      The key is that you are doing **SOMETHING**… Travel, taking care of people, taking classes, etc….

      Good luck!

    4. Pollygrammer*

      I might say “I got the opportunity to [travel/whatever] and I couldn’t pass it up!” not “I could and I wanted to.” If there’s any kind of education or training you’re going to pursue, that’s helpful too.

      It is very sad that our culture makes this sort of thing weird, but it does, particularly in certain fields.

  77. DogPerson*

    Advice for things to do while unemployed? I’m an EA; the last company I worked for folded. Things have been slow with the holidays. The recruiters told me Nov/Dec is hard to get a job.

    I tried working for a restaurant, but ended up getting fired from that after a month. I’m still recovering from the emotional stress of being there.

    I’d like to do something productive. It’s hard when I can’t spend money on literally anything.

    Advice???

    1. k.k*

      Have you tried volunteering? It’s something to keep you busy, you can put it on your resume to help fill in the unemployment gap, and depending on what you do you might pick up a valuable skill. Plus, having a more open schedule is great when looking to volunteer. I’ve tried volunteering places before and found that all the weekend opportunities filled up fast, but there was always plenty open to choose from during the weekdays. Guessing from your username, you might enjoy volunteering at an animal shelter. Spending a few hours taking care of some cute dogs could be a nice stress relief.

      1. DogPerson*

        That’s a good idea. It takes like a month to go through the whole orientation process though, and I was hoping I’d have a job before I’d be certified to volunteer. It’s hard to sign up for something that feels like betting against yourself.

    2. Goya de la Mancha*

      Volunteering was my go to just to keep me on some sort of schedule. Also, I’m extremely introverted, so it forced me to interact with people instead of sitting at home and becoming more reclusive. I ended up volunteering in the office of a non-profit for a few months. It’s crazy how much networking was available that way (customers/patrons/board members/other volunteers/etc.). I didn’t get my current job based off that networking, but I feel confident enough to say something would have eventually popped up.

    3. Tea Fish*

      Are you looking for cheap things to do that will help bolster a job search or cheap and fun things to do to pass the time and help keep you sharp and engaged with life while you go on your job search?

      For the former, are there any free CE courses or lunch-and-learn sessions being offered nearby that you can take advantage of? I’m thinking this because I used to work in a (non accounting) office that would offer free seminars and CE credits to various professionals (CPAs, EAs, LIAs) in order to build up relationships with them. And it worked, in that our firm got to network with these professionals and build up referral and business relationships with some of them.

      If the latter, I really recommend getting into podcasts if you haven’t already. A lot of them are free to listen to– for example, the entire catalog at Maximum Fun– and run the gamut from pure entertainment, purely educational, and every combination and every topic possible, really.

      1. DogPerson*

        I’ve never heard of those courses before. I’ll look into them. I want to get out of the house more. Thanks!

    4. The New Wanderer*

      Look for super cheap deals on classes – exercise classes in particular usually run really good deals in January or have cheap introductory rates. A few months ago I paid $20 for a month of unlimited yoga classes and while I only made it to five of them, it was a nice break in the day.

      I never had luck with volunteering, so I usually put my energies into making stuff at home. There are tutorial videos on literally everything you could want to make, along with blogs etc. Refashioning and upcycling are pretty cost effective hobbies if you like crafting.

  78. santa baby*

    i had my first year-end review at this job last night (I’ve been here since April) and apparently a)my direct supervisor had no idea how much money I make until about two weeks ago, b) he would have offered me $15-25k less if he was negotiating with me (which…yeah, I wouldn’t have taken the job in that case), and c) I make too much money to get a raise this year. He told me all of this while chucking and “congratulating” me on my “negotiation skills.” I just….don’t even know how i feel? I was planning on leaving at the one year mark anyway so I guess it’s not a big deal, but it was just kind of a bizarre conversation, lol.

    1. Sloane Kittering*

      Meh, let this roll of your back like water from a duck. He may just be saying this because he doesn’t want to have you ask for a raise. There are also some positions that may legitimately not be worth more than X to the company whether you do them great or not, but too bad for him if he disagrees with your salary. Laugh all the way to the bank and leave in a year. Don’t contemplate staying a moment longer though because he’s basically admitting he’ll never give you a raise – very good information for you to know! I wish my company would be so transparent. They *pretend* they’ll give me a raise some day, if I’m very, very good.

    2. Pollygrammer*

      Ugh, that is incredibly obnoxious. What a ridiculous, pointless little bit of ego-puffing on his part.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I would assume that I was making almost as much money as him and chalk the remarks up to his shock over that.

  79. Rikki Tikki Tarantula*

    I am a full-time freelancer, and I do all my business via email, working with Word files, etc. I have a PO Box mostly because it seems odd to have invoices and business cards that don’t have any kind of snail mail information (also, I had one client that preferred to send a check for payment) and I don’t like handing out my home address. However, it seems a waste of money because I never get mail to that PO box. Would it look hinky or unprofessional to only have phone/email contact info and get rid of the PO box?

    1. santa baby*

      i don’t think so? all the freelancers I’ve worked with are only online– but I work in tech, so it might be more common to have a physical address in other fields?

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Where do you live? Is there any legal or regulatory requirement?

      Here in the UK, for example, you are required (by HMRC which I guess is our equivalent of the IRS) to include a postal address on invoices.

  80. Argh!*

    Do any of you work in a merit-only pay system? I’ve read up on it and I’m demoralized due to non-merit discretionary raises while over 80% get merit raises (state agency with sunshine law so pay is public knowledge). That other 80% do stupid or mediocre things all the time, produce less than I do, and have less experience in the field. I’ve read up on this and it’s apparently normal to feel the way I do but it’s still frustrating. I asked my boss for specifics on what I could do to raise my rating and she said there’s no objective criteria for subjective categories, i.e., if I don’t like you there’s nothing you can do about it.

    If you’ve never seen this video, it sums up my feelings perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

  81. Science!*

    This is a really minor thing, so much so that I’ve been tempted to write in every friday for weeks and always said, “eh not that big a deal.” But I thought I’d finally get some opinions.

    I’m a nursing mom, so at work I pump twice a day. I carry all my supplies in a nondescript black bag. To get to the pumping room I look like I’m heading out the main door to the parking lot. Also my work has really flexible hours, and there are a bunch of people who work the 7-3 shift voluntarily (I am not one of them).

    When I go for my 3pm pumping session, frequently I will pass people in the hallway who will say something like: “Oh heading home? Have a nice day!” I usually reply, “Oh I’ll be right back, not leaving yet!” but it feel awkward since I’m carrying a bag that looks like I’m heading out for the day. I don’t want to make things more weird by talking about going to pump, but want to give some indication that I’m not leaving.

    Part of why I’m asking is that my boss is one of the people who I frequently see in the hallway and I’m feeling sensitive (for long complicated reasons) to being seen as leaving work early since I don’t get in until 8:30 most days.

    1. Sloane Kittering*

      If it’s one person, I might make sure to poke my head in later in the afternoon to get some face time. Or if its your boss I might explicitly name this to them. Otherwise, is there any kind of bag that would look more internal? What if it was in a plastic bag or purse or a tote bag – just for the walk to the pumping room. Or something that looked more like a briefcase or a laptop bag? Something about the bag you’re using now seems to be suggesting to people that it’s a ‘leaving for the day’ situation.

      1. Science!*

        My bosses office is right next door, so he does usually see me later in the day. I was hoping that now that it’s winter, it’s clearer that I’m not leaving since I don’t have my coat but I’m still getting a few comments, so I guess I should be more direct that I’m not leaving the building.

    2. Murphy*

      I feel the same way when I do that. (We have a room in the office that I can use, but if it’s taken, the officially designated pumping rooms are in other buildings, so I’m even wearing a coat!) I’d probably just do the same thing you’re doing.

      But if anyone asks, just say you’re pumping like it’s no big deal. I find it more awkward to dance around it to just be straightforward.

      1. Science!*

        I’ve mentioned going to pump to a couple people. Maybe a quick breezy “off to pump!” will do the trick.

    3. Anony*

      Is it possible to shift your pumping time? They probably assume you are leaving because it is exactly the time when other people do leave. They would be less likely to make that assumption at 2 or 4. However, I don’t think you should worry about it too much. You aren’t leaving and if you want to make sure your boss knows that, you can find some reason to see/talk to/email him later about a work thing so that you know that he knows you are still working.

      1. Science!*

        I might be able to shift it now. When I first came back there were a lot of pumping mothers, and there’s only one room so you have to sign up for a time. 3pm was the only available time in the afternoon. I think a bunch of people stopped recently because the schedule is a lot more open. 2pm might be a better time for me anyway.

    4. Lcsa99*

      Any way you could drop the bag in the room when you come in in the morning (or leave it after the first session) so you’re heading there empty handed at 3, and just carry it back to your desk when you’re done?

    5. Friday*

      Eh, not a big deal overall… I remember that happened a lot with my first kid and I expect it again when #2 is here. In a regular 8-5 workday, I pump at 9/12/3 and when someone says the old “heading out?” on my 3pm pump, I just say nope, I’ll be here until 5. And leave them standing there confused, hehe. They always figure it out sooner or later. Your boss should already know that you pump though, right?

  82. Saturn*

    I have a question for the environmentally conscientious readers. I am the lucky office member who gets to sit across from the kitchen. One of my coworkers turns the light off in the kitchen every time she leaves. Since we are an office of 40 it is inevitable that someone will arrive in the kitchen two minutes later and have to turn the light on. My question is – which uses LESS electicity – leaving the light on or turning it on and off?

    1. fposte*

      It depends on the kind of bulb (and turning them on and off also wears out some kinds of bulb, so it’s not just the power used in turning them on, it’s the shortening of its lifespan). The guideline I’m seeing says turn off incandescents and halogens when you go, but don’t bother to turn off CFLs and LEDs if they’ll be back on in under 15 minutes. No guideline is offered for the old non-compact fluorescents, but I recall them as being particularly vulnerable to wear from multiple cycles and think they’re probably in the “leave on under 15 minutes” category as well. Of course, individual fixtures will also vary from this.

      2. Natalie*

        For tube fluorescents, the failure point is more often the ballast, which regulates the amount of current that flows through the lamp itself. There are various types of ballasts, but generally speaking the electricity used to charge them is only a few seconds worth of lighting time. Of greater concern is the number of uses you can reasonably expect out of each ballast (for example, 100,000 on/off cycles). So you get into complicated equations of the production and disposal of the ballasts. Plus, in some states including my own, only licensed electricians can change the ballasts so you would have to factor in the transportation costs for a specialist.

        1. LCL*

          Thanks for the link. I wasn’t able to find the particular episode, but the description made me laugh. Myth busters hooked what they called an inductive current loop up to an oscilloscope to get current measurements of individual lamps. Much more dramatic than necessary.

      2. Bostonian*

        Yes, I believe the Mythbusters calculated that in order for the electricity savings to be greater keeping the lights on than turning them off, you would have to leave and come back in less than 1 second.

        2. Mints*

          My link is in moderation but here’s a highlight, the amount of energy it takes to turn on versus already on:
          Incandescent: 0.36 seconds
          CFL: 0.015 seconds
          Halogen: .51 seconds
          LED: 1.28 seconds
          Fluorescent: 23.3 seconds
          Even though you said fluorescent, worst case, it’s still better than a couple minutes

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          In fact I’ve just checked and we use 220 kWh of energy per quarter. The average for our area is about four times that!

          Turn those lights off, people.

  83. sheep jump death match*

    I just want to express my general frustration that my work is having our THIRD holiday party today. THIRD. The cynical part of me thinks they scheduled this one today to make sure no one took the day off. Grumble grumble grumble.

    1. Jules the First*

      We did too, but they had it at noon, served champagne, and gave everyone the afternoon off, paid (but people who didn’t come in this morning still need to use PTO for the whole day). Any chance yours might be planning something similar?

    2. Lcsa99*

      My husband had to attend 4 (all for different departments he’s attached to). And one they even stuck on to a meeting to a meeting. Some offices just go overboard.

  84. Temperance*

    I came in today fully planning on getting work done, but was instead greeted with coquitos, mimosas, and delicious snacks. What a wonderful problem to have! ;)

      1. Temperance*

        It was my first time having one, and it’s a new favorite! My colleague’s family is from Puerto Rico, and she used her family recipe.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          I have a MASSIVE bottle that I made two weeks ago. My first coquito. We’re taking it with us to the beach. I was also introduced to this fabulous elixir by a work colleague; I barely worked with that guy and I have very fond memories of him.

  85. LizB*

    I had to have my first real negative performance conversation with a direct report yesterday. I think I did pretty well at being clear and calm, and my team member definitely understood what the problem was and what I need from them going forward, but aaaaugh it was hard. It doesn’t help that the original complaint was from a client who is a total glassbowl and phrased their (valid) concerns in the most obnoxious way possible, so I was already cranky from dealing with them. Not my favorite part of managing…

    1. NW Mossy*

      Oh, relaying legitimate-but-badly-phrased feedback is HARD.

      I actually just had a similar conversation with one of my directs, who my peer managers perceive as “not helpful to [their] teams,” with a tone of judging her personally for being snotty. It’s definitely true – she can come off that way sometimes. That said, I see pretty clearly that the trigger for those “sometimes” is a combination of frequent interruptions in the face of pressing priorities.

      As a result, the feedback I’m giving is not to smile more, but instead to work on recognizing that it’s normal to have reasonable boundaries and to explicitly ask others to respect them. We talked about things like saying “Hey, in the middle of something, catch you in 20?”, using the DND feature on her IM when she needs to focus, and generally making it clear that she’s willing to help, just not in an on-call type of way. Empowering her to have more control over the ebb and flow of her job will ultimately make it much easier for her to have the emotional bandwidth to be warm and friendly towards those “quick questions.”

    2. Argh!*

      Good for you! Yes, it’s hard, and it’s also (part of) why you get paid more than your report.

      Employees appreciate honest feedback, even if it’s hard to hear. At least they know where they stand. The opposite is too common — supervisors who let things go or are afraid of confrontation. And even worse – not saying anything then throwing out zingers in the performance evaluation!

  86. PolarBearGirl*

    Looking for some resources on grammar/proofreading for someone who reports to me.

    Here’s the set-up: I am in charge of advancement/outreach for a nonprofit. We hired on a fantastic marketing person, and she brings a ton to our operation. However, grammar, punctuation, etc. are not her strong suit, which is an issue because she is in charge of many of our outward facing social items and because (aside from wanting to look polished in this area) we work in a field where the public expects a very high standard from us on these things.

    One of the reasons we were able to hire her was that my org realized I could not keep all those tasks AND raise all our money, so I would like to avoid making her run every little post by me first. She is totally open to coaching and correction and says to just let her know how to improve. However, I think it’s punitive/not helpful to print out things and note corrections in red after the fact. Even though she freely says she knows this is not a strong suit, I don’t want this to become an area where she feels torn down rather than supported in efforts to improve.

    Do folks have grammar books or sites that would be good regular reads for her? I adore my CMS and would read it for fun at the drop of a hat, but that doesn’t seem the way to go. Should I just do up a style cheat sheet with some of the more basic items I think she should watch for? All suggestions most welcome!

    1. AnonAndOn*

      “The Elements of Style” is a good one. I used it at a previous job and ended up buying a copy for myself.

    2. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      As a former professional editor who used to work at a place with an incredibly complex/nitpicky house style, yes, do up a style sheet/check list. Heck, maybe even do up several and give her one, let her internalize that, then give her another one. Maybe the first one could include things like “Did you run spell check?” (yeah, this won’t catch everything, but it’ll catch some things) and some simple things that are easy to notice. Then another style sheet once she’s internalized that with things that are a little more complex, and so on.

      This really isn’t going to happen overnight, though, whether you go with style sheets/check lists or another option. Be prepared to have to keep checking her posts for more complicated grammar stuff. (And if she really seems to be okay with you giving her feedback after the fact and if she thinks it’s helpful, keep doing it. Don’t avoid it just because of how you think it’s making her feel.)

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        Also, after you’ve done up your style sheet(s), put them on a shared drive or wiki so that other people can access them in the future–even people with good grammar have “Wait, should this be X or Y?” moments. You’ve already done the work, so other people besides this one employee might as well reap the benefits rather than having to redo it themselves later on.

    3. Fabulous*

      Does she prep posts and things in Word? If not, maybe have her start doing that so that the little things will be flagged right off the bat. Pretty sure you can program in specific grammar rules too, but I can’t remember how off the top of my head right now.

      1. Fabulous*

        Also, after spell/grammar checking, I suggest reading things aloud so that she can hear how the words sound and find if any words are missing, wrong tenses, etc.

    4. fposte*

      Definitely do a style cheat sheet. Have her develop a library of online resources, too, like OWL and Grammar Girl.

      If we’re talking basic grammar and punctuation, I really love Karen Elizabeth Gordon’s Transitive Vampire and Well-Tempered Sentence books (the comparatively new expanded ones); they’re funny and wry and concise.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        And a library of templates. If there’s content she often uses – this line, that description – she could have that saved in a resource bank.

    5. Pollygrammer*

      I wouldn’t be too optimistic that a book would help her too much–personal proofreading is probably the way to go for a little while. Ask to to keep a running list of mistakes that have been spotted so she can avoid them a second time. You should reasonably be able to expect her to be able to be corrected once and remember the right way to do something, and if she can’t then you have a problem.

    6. Argh!*

      What kinds of mistakes? Are they usage, punctuation, spelling or what? That would dictate the kind of resource to use.

      A cheat sheet for now might be the way to go if she makes common errors, such as “there” for “they’re.” If this is a small percentage of her job and she seems not to be able to memorize these things, swapping out this duty for something someone else is ready to move on from on might be the solution.

    7. Doyouthinkanyonesaurus*

      I’m a huge fan of Grammarly, especially for grammar and punctuation. I think it’s better than what comes standard with Word and it works across a variety of platforms. It does have some limitations, but it’s a good place to start.

    8. Sam Foster*

      My university recommended a set of cheat sheets on grammar, maths, etc. when I first started back in the day. Just checked amazon and they had a lot of options under the search term “grammar cheat sheets.”

    9. Personal Assistant (Finance Industry)*

      I’ve always been fond of grammar girl’s podcast. The episodes are short and she explains well, it sticks in your mind.

  87. selina kyle*

    Happy holidays!
    For some reason my office is open next week despite most other offices on campus being shut down and there being very little for us to do. I’m trying not to be a grouch about it, but failing a bit. The upside is I get an excuse to ask my folks to not stay TOO long when they come visit for Christmas, so I get my space back to myself sooner – woohoo!

  88. hermit crab*

    Oh, also! Remember the DOL overtime rule from last year that never went into effect? The company I work for converted the entry-level consulting staff to non-exempt a few months before the rule was supposed to take effect. I just heard that they’ve now been converted back to exempt (with a slight pay raise to account for the loss of overtime; full-time exempt staff are expected to work 40-44 hrs/wk but I think overtime was rarely expected of the non-exempt staff). Anyway, I thought there might be folks around here who’d be interested in hearing this.

    1. krysb*

      I was set to get a $7K raise to lift me to the minimum. I ended up with $2K raise instead. There’s a judge in Texas who’s lucky I’m not prone to violence.

  89. DogPerson*

    Anyone in NYC try substute teaching for private schools? How do you get those jobs?

    The $500 you have to pay to sub for public schools seems steep; just want something while I’m unemployed.

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Wait, you have to pay to sub in public schools? Why? (I can’t help because I’m not a sub and I don’t live in NYC, but yikes, that’s a lot of money to pay for a job.)

    2. Goya de la Mancha*

      I think our subs might have to pay a small fee to take a “test” (which I think also covers the background check forms, etc.), but our state is DESPERATE for subs – so I imagine NYC would be similar. If you can make the $500 back within your first week or two, I’d say it’s worth it in my eyes.

      1. DogPerson*

        It doesn’t seem worth it tho bc I’d have to wait until after the holidays… and then I’d *hopefully* find a job soon bc I have second round interviews scheduled for the first week in January. Also I’m pretty sure it takes a couple months to jump through all the hoops. That’s why I was asking about private schools. I’ll just emails them individually I guess.

        1. Goya de la Mancha*

          Sorry I missed the private school part. Our private schools utilize the same process/program as the public schools, so I don’t know if it would be any easier/cheaper for the privates over public. Emails can’t hurt though! Good Luck :)

  90. Queerasaurus*

    Half venting, half confused on how to handle this:

    A supervisor from a partner agency (we are collaborating on a project) asked me the other day how my “friend” was, referring to my wife. I am a lesbian and I had previously introduced my wife to this supervisor as my wife.

    I found out from a coworker that a couple weeks later, supervisor asked coworkers how they felt about me being married to a woman, was it even legal, etc.

    I’m lucky my own workplace is very LGBT friendly, but I’m not sure how to navigate these close relationships with other agencies, especially when the homophobia is not super blatant and some isn’t even being expressed directly to me.

    2. selina kyle*

      UGH god fellow queer lady hugs coming to you from across the internet. That is really hard. Is there anything you could say to someone higher up? Something along the lines of having a set way to talk about married couples, regardless of gender or just some kind of sensitivity training. I think if you phrase this as not only an issue for intercompany stuff but how it would look to clients, even someone who might otherwise be more passive would take an interest in making changes to language used. Not that that actually solves the problem (or should be necessary) but…still.

    3. Murphy*

      Ew, what? I’m sorry that guy is a jerk/idiot. I would just be matter of fact with your responses. “My wife’s doing well, thanks.” Obviously if it becomes more overt/aggressive, that might not be enough. But hopefully it won’t come to that.

      I’d give your supervisor a heads up, just so they know what’s going on. It’s great that it sounds like your workplace has your back, so that would help a lot.

    4. Goya de la Mancha*

      Ew, I was going to come to the guy’s defense and say maybe he didn’t know you were married – no ill intent, but then the second paragraph. I would say something to your Supervisor if you feel comfortable enough. Nothing may be able to done at this time, but future projects/workers can be looked at more closely after this.

    5. Ramona Flowers*

      I don’t know what to advise but I just wanted to say this sucks and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with it.

    6. STG*

      As someone else in the LGBT community, that really sucks. I might be able to cringe at the ‘friend’ comment but the public discussion on your particular marriage is way out of line. Good luck.

      It is interesting that everyone is assuming said supervisor is a guy.

      1. Goya de la Mancha*

        huh, you’re right! To be honest, I skimmed and genuinely thought I saw “he” in the paragraph.

  91. RidiculousRaise*

    I’m not sure what type of advice I’m looking for here… but I work at a public university and just found out that a male peer of mine went from making the same salary as me to ~$30k more this year, no title change. We have different bosses but we work for the same department. When my boss found out, to her credit, she immediately went to HR with a list of the increased responsibilities I have taken on and requested a title change and salary adjustment based on similar positions at our university. Is there something else I should be doing here? Advocating for myself to my bosses above my boss after break?

    For more context: There are only two of us in this role in the department. I’ve been with the university almost five years. During that time I’ve taken on more work every year and now manage a team of student interns (varies from 3-5 every year). I do regularly work overtime but I avoid working on weekends whenever possible. My peer has been here fewer years than I have but is fairly well-known for bragging about how much overtime he works– he claims up to 100 hours/week. So from the day he started he was producing more than I have (the nature of our work is somewhat subjective but generally speaking I’m regarded as having higher quality work). I’m not even necessarily looking to make the exact amount he is making now since I can’t argue with the fact that I produce less despite the fact that he’s only able to do it because of overtime– but something about this just stinks to me on an almost discriminatory level because the raise was SO high.

    Help?!

    1. Murphy*

      At my public university, you have to submit large raises (I think 20% or more) through HR for approval. Can you find out if you have a process like that that may have some kind of paper trail? We also have different pay bands, etc. and that large of a difference would put him in a different pay band, which can’t be justified if he’s in the same position as you.

      I think taking it to HR was the right move. It’s in their hands, but if I were you, I’d try to educate myself about your university’s policies as much as possible.

      And I’m sorry this happened. Hopefully it gets worked out for you!

      1. RidiculousRaise*

        Reading everyone’s feedback, yes, the most confusing thing to me is that we’re still in the same position. That articulates a big part of the “this stinks” feeling to me. It seems like it shouldn’t be possible. I’ll look into the possibility of a paper trail, can’t hurt to dig around online on our website at least.

        1. Argh!*

          Are people in the same position elsewhere making the higher salary? This could have been a market-based raise. Also, he could have applied for another job, received an offer, and negotiated the raise to get him to stay.

    2. RidiculousRaise*

      Extra context: I make/he used to make about $45,000 a year. So a raise that high is, frankly, life-changing. At the very least, lifestyle-changing, ha.

    3. fposte*

      Ask your boss. This stinks, and it sounds like she immediately saw that it stinks and moved to deal with it; in the situations I know, what you’d do is stay in communication with her and make sure you’re teammates in the effort, which it sounds like you’re doing. If you don’t think she’s advocating forcefully enough, that’s another issue–at that point you’d decide how much capital with her it’d be worth burning to push past her on this, or if it’s worth leaving over. But right now the person who should be handling this seems to be handling this.

      1. Reba*

        At what point should RR raise the illegal discrimination possibility? (Assuming RR is a woman since she? specified “male peer.”)

        And also, RR, wow. WOW. I’d be so demoralized. I’m glad your boss is stepping up for you and hope she can come through with something like parity.

        1. fposte*

          It’s not illegal if it’s remedied. Right now RR’s boss is exploring the remedy.

          I’m really wondering how they managed to get that much of a raise in without a title bump, though; there may be something in the back end that hasn’t been clear yet. I don’t think just giving him a title bump solves the problem, but it makes the situation slightly less egregious.

        2. RidiculousRaise*

          Yep, I am a woman. For now, I’m still mostly just shocked. But I’ll be demoralized once the news settles. We’ve been told for years that significant raises were not financially possible (understandable since we are a public university!), and I do love my job, so I’ve been getting by despite this being a high COL area. But after finding out what some of my peers make at other schools I was starting to consider a job search– so as fposte said– this might be the thing that pushes me to leave.

          My boss is normally not this aggressive though, so I am hoping she can come through because I’d love to stay… this is just… ridiculous.

          1. Argh!*

            You answered my question! He received a market-based raise, and you should look into that. Job notices with salaries (rare) or having an offer in-hand (ugh applying for jobs) are the way to document that you’re underpaid for your position relative to other institutions.

            Good luck & please post a follow up!

    4. paul*

      how the hell did they get a 30k raise without a title change or promotion? That’s baffling. Unless you’re well into six figure territory that’s an immense raise.

      1. fposte*

        Yeah, I don’t think you could do it at my public university. There’d be no way to stay in the same band.

      2. RidiculousRaise*

        It’s an 80% raise, so yes, baffling to say the least! If I didn’t have to protect my own identity I’d post the document with the list of salaries because it’s just crazy to look at and frankly, I’m still in shock. Outside of our department he is now the highest paid person in our position and I am second to last.

        1. fposte*

          So how many people are there and how much more does he make than the second highest? Is the position title generic enough that you can share it?

          1. RidiculousRaise*

            I feel comfortable saying I work in a creative role– that’s what I meant by our work being subjective in my original post. Our university has slightly outdated titles for the way our industry is– you can effectively combine two of them– my title is the lesser used so there are about a dozen of us across the university. If you add the other title there are ~60 of us. With the larger, combined group he would be the 2nd highest paid and I would be 4th from the last.

          2. RidiculousRaise*

            Sorry I misread part of your question, he makes $6k more than the second highest in our specific title. It drops pretty quickly after that– average looks to be about $55k.

            1. fposte*

              Okay, that’s a little more complicated. The difference between $75k and $69k isn’t so great, especially if $69k is female (not that she should be paid less, but that the highest paid person used to be female and she’s still paid close to the person with the most recent raise). Varying levels of boss activism may be really important here; it’s also quite possible that the guy made a case to his boss based on ol’ $69k. I do think it’s reasonable to make a strong point about the problem of in-department parity here–the difference you describe isn’t enough for him to get 66% more in salary than you, and I think it’d be pretty tough for people to argue that that’s appropriate.

              1. RidiculousRaise*

                I think that’s a fair assessment– thank you for all your comments today! I do agree that my best shot is arguing that the in-department disparity is not appropriate. I’m bracing for the worst but we do have relatively new leadership so it’s possible that this will actually get rectified!

      3. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

        Since it’s in education…could the raise be due to him acquiring a masters or doctoral degree — even though his job title hasn’t changed? Sometimes attaining a higher degree puts one into a higher tier.

        1. RidiculousRaise*

          Funny you should mention that… I’m technically more educated and my degree is related to my field. My boss actually brought that up when she talked to HR.

  92. Bigglesworth*

    I wanted to give two quick updates from work/school life recently.
    1.) Right before Thanksgiving, I asked for advice on how to handle my husband’s hospitalization with his work (anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideation). He’s now back at work full-time, working with both a therapist and a psychiatrist to resolve his health issues, AND his work has been absolutely wonderful to work with. I expressed concern because he works in a blue-collar industry and his first company made fun of people with mental illnesses. This company has gone out of its way to make sure he feels welcomed and is making sure he is taken care of. I’m sad to say that this is probably due to the fact that they lost two workers within the last 5 months to suicide, but I’m ecstatic my husband works for a company that recognizes this as a serious issue.

    2.) Other happy news includes the fact that I finished my first semester of law school this week. My exams were delayed (for the above circumstance), but I can finally say that I’m done!!!! 1/6 of the way through law school feels pretty good. :)

    I hope everyone is having a good holiday season, whether you celebrate Hannukah, Christmas, Festivus, or other/none!

    1. selina kyle*

      That’s so awesome about your husband. I’m glad he has you to back him up :)
      Congrats so much on law school!

    2. anon24*

      I’m glad your husband is doing better and that his job is working with him. I hope things continue to be great for him.
      Congrats on finishing your first semester! Good luck on the other 5!

    3. Overeducated*

      Thank you for updating, it’s such a positive one. Go you on your school accomplishments, and best wishes for your husband’s health.

  93. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

    Yesterday we had our Holidays dinner. We had a nice dinner, joking and sharing the most ridiculous interviews we had in each project (some were so weird we felt sorry for the person). The food was good, the drink not so much, but we laughed a lot anyway.

  94. Lunchy*

    I’m really crushed. My contract with the company I’m working with is due to expire next week, and I haven’t heard anything about an extension. It’s been extended once already, and I was sure I’d get a perm position by now, but due to some office politics it was given to someone’s relative instead.

    I’ve asked my recruiter twice for an update, even just a “no” so I can try to move on emotionally (I love it here! You’d never expect it since it’s a financial company, but I do!), but there’s been no word. On Wednesday she said she would reach out to the project manager again, and I haven’t heard anything.

    I hate being unemployed, but it’s even worse when I love the job and was getting good reviews from my supervisor. Do they really make decisions about this last minute? Last time I found out like two weeks before the scheduled end date, so it’s more reason to be nervous.

  96. Roza*

    Any tips on being gracious when receiving constructive criticism on a project you had to finish under an extremely compressed timeline? I’m on a team that recently had to churn out teapots in less than a week, when the normal pace at my company is more like on every 2-3 months. We had to make sacrifices to this–nothing that affected the integrity of the teapot or it’s pouring ability, but, say, gluing the handle on directly rather than making it removable and easy to swap out. Now that we have some breathing room, we’re going back and making the handle customizable (which takes longer than making it that way from the beginning).

    We now have some people from other teams piling on with comments like “PSA IT IS BEST PRACTICES TO ALWAYS MAKE HANDLES CUSTOMIZABLE. THINK LONG AND HARD BEFORE YOU GLUE ON THE HANDLE.” I do want their input as we make v2 of the teapots (sometimes they tell us things we don’t already know), but feeling like I’m being judged on work where I didn’t have time to follow best practices is getting old. I’m having a hard time not feeling defensive and/or depressed. It’s also frustrating having people think I’m dumb when I’m quite aware that customizable handles are best, but I’m also 200% sure we would have missed our deadline if we’d aimed for perfect rather than good enough. I’d prefer if the comments from the other team were about the teapots rather than proclamations that our team doesn’t know best practices. Any tips on how to communicate that?

    1. atgo*

      Oy this dynamic is super common where I work. It’s exhausting.

      I’ve seen it help to communicate broadly (email?)* what concessions you made to make the original deadline, what the priorities are to resolve for the next version of teapots, and a high-level process overview that shows the whole length of the project (as far as you can reasonably predict/are committed to). That way you’re showing them that 1) there is a plan, 2) there always was a plan, 3) you own the project and these sorts of decisions, and 4) you are competent and capable.

      You can refer back to that communication when it comes up in person in the future until it’s well socialized.

      For example, a whole department at my company that usually provides a lot of support to the rest of the staff has been doing an executive search for a while and is quite short staffed right now (maybe they should be around 10 people and they’re 6 or so now). The interim leader of the team sent an all-staff email saying that the team would need to be declining more projects than usual, and please bear with this, and it’s provided the individual staff backing to scope down their work.

      * There are a huge number of broadcast communication channels where I work that anyone can use. It’s overwhelming and inefficient, but does provide a good place for this kind of thing. I’m not sure how normal that is :)

    2. Pollygrammer*

      “Yes, [X] would have been one of our priorities if we were working with a longer time-frame on this project.” We ultimately had to make the call that meeting the deadline with the absolute necessities was more important than [X].” Repeat.

    3. Nanc*

      Have you read Thanks for the Feedback: The Science and Art of Receiving Feedback Well? I got it from the library and liked it so well I bought myself a copy. I like to think I take feedback pretty well but struggled accepting it from folks, like yours, who seemed to bury the problem needing to be solved under mountains of . . . stuff. It also helped me give better feedback–I tried to really think about how much the person really needs to know in order to understand what the problem is and how we can solve it.

    4. NW Mossy*

      Oh, this one’s so common! I see this a lot when you’re dealing with teams that are stacked with very conscientious “anything less than the best is a felony” types who take it very much to heart when they themselves make an error.

      I deal with this in the team I manage quite a bit, and a big part of what I tell them is to remember that a lot of this is about how our point of view informs our priorities. When it’s our job to fix problems or set best practices, of course we notice when people cause problems or don’t follow best practices – it’s our job to do that. But we can’t leap from that to say that other people are stupid or malicious for not putting our priorities at the top of their list. They have their own priorities, and if we want to work well with them and avoid mutual frustration, we need to understand what they care about and figure out a reasonable compromise between our conflicting positions.

      In your situation, I’d frame it like this: “Yup, removable handles are our preferred option, and you’ll be pleased to know that we’re heading back to that now. We made the conscious decision to go with fixed handles for this project because of the tight time frame, and the customer made it clear to us that meeting the deadline was more important to them than the flexibility removable handles provide. I’m glad we were able to be agile with this, and I think we took some good lessons from this project that’ll help us in the future.”

  97. NoodleMara*

    Any suggestions on how to deal with job searching guilt when I’m receiving a ton of thanks and just got my end of year bonuses?

    I’m salary and because of seasonal demands of the job, we run hard in the summers. I work with an asshole salesmen and over the summer the combination of stress from him and the ever changing day to day work of the job prompted me to start job searching. Along with that, our workload is supposed to slow down once October hits and mine stayed high, working on high level projects. I’ve got a good chance of receiving a job offer after the first of the year. In the past three days, all of the people who have been giving me projects including my boss, the asshole, and my supervisor have been thanking me for my hard work. Compounding this issue is they messed up my incentive and I have to pitch a quiet fit to get them to fix it. It’s now fixed but I felt bad.

    Now that all these feel good feelings are floating around and my incredible supervisor let me take extra vacation days even though I’m out of them, I’m feeling super guilty for wanting to leave. The jobs I’ve been looking at all pay less because they’re all much lower stress.

    I don’t know how to deal with this other than the fact that I really really need a vacation. Which I’m now getting. Thoughts?

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      I’d just not do anything at the moment and enjoy the extra vacation. You’ve obviously earned it. After you’ve relaxed a bit, your head will be clearer. That’s the time to think about everything.

    2. Windchime*

      Take the vacation without guilt, and give serious consideration to taking a less stressful job which also pays less. I took a 10% pay cut to come to my current job, and even though I now have a crummy commute it was totally worth it. The people are nice, the benefits are good, and when I walk out the door, I’m done with work for the day. It has changed my life.

  98. The Other Dawn*

    No question here. Just thought I’d share.

    My husband’s boss took half the team out for dinner last night (my husband works in security so there has to be coverage at all times). There are eight people on the team, plus the boss. My husband didn’t want to go, since he’s not thrilled with his boss or the company. Boss told everyone that he really didn’t want to take everyone out for a Christmas dinner, but that the company said he had to. (Nice.) He also lives an hour away and is working 7 am to 11 pm today and wanted to get home. But he went in order to be a team player. Plus it was at a really good steakhouse and he figured, why not get a free meal?

    Dinner was early (before 5 pm). Husband texts at 8:05 pm to say he’s on his way home. So dinner was basically three hours, which is a lot. Especially with the back problems he’s been having (worse than mine). He gets home and I ask him how it went. He said the food was great, but that the boss really dragged out dinner (no kidding!). I figured maybe they were all shooting the breeze. Nope. A lot of work-related talk. Mentioned again that he didn’t want to take everyone out but that the company made him. UGH. I asked him if the boss at least thanked them for their hard work this year. Yes. BUT. “We need to do X better. We need to stop doing Y,” etc. So basically the boss had a captive audience and used dinner as an opportunity to tell them all what “the team” could be doing better.

    Husband dosed himself up with a bunch of Ibuprofen and went to be about an hour after he got home. Now he’s back at work for a 16 hour shift. Poor guy.

  99. atgo*

    I’d love some more perspectives on a situation at my work.

    I’ve been at my company for 4 years now (~300 people), and have been through a lot of leadership changes and chaos during this time. The only constant has been change. I’ve surfed it pretty well (it doesn’t get to me too much), though others have had a much harder time. At this point, things are stabilizing and I feel cautiously optimistic that we’ll get into a really good place.

    In the leadership changes, my boss was promoted to executive level (interim first, now permanent for a few months). I report to him and manage 1 other person. Our team manages the largest-scale, multidisciplinary/cross-org projects that we currently have. Naturally, with Executive’s new job he’s figuring out how to run the whole department and is making some changes. I was involved in an initial conversation about what those changes would look like, and they included the possibility of me taking on a few more people and building out my team (moving fully into a management position, where I’m in a hybrid role now). Now I’ve learned (from another colleague who has been involved) that the conversations have continued without me and that it looks like this may not be happening.

    I’m feeling disappointed that I have been excluded from these discussions and not sure how to bring it up. I was excited to move into the management position – I *love* thinking about how people can work better together and produce better outcomes for the business, which this would become. Add to that the fact that our office is closed next week and I’m leaving on vacation the following week, so I don’t know how I can get engaged in the process again even if I ask. Also, I’m one of the few women in management in this part of the organization and as far as I can tell the entire group working to resolve the changes are my male colleagues, who I know have an easier time advocating for themselves and getting more responsibility… so I can’t help but wonder if things would be different if I’d been pushier about being involved earlier. I’ve also seen other mid-level female managers really struggle when they’ve advocated for themselves and then been unsupported in new roles, so I’m anxious about signing up for that. And like many of us, I’ve got some of that good ol’ Imposter Syndrome as well, so I’m not sure if I should be asking for more responsibility at this time.

    It’s confusing. Any wisdom from the commentariat?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Maybe there is a way you can ask what the current plan is and hopefully find something that would be perfect for you?

  100. Beth Anne*

    This is sorta work related. It’s a productivity question. I get SO MUCH EMAIL. I’m looking for a good app to easily sift through gmail. I hate the gmail app b/c when I delete something it doesn’t open the next email and brings me back to the inbox. My favorite app mailbox I think it was called shut down.

    Related: My boss never puts any emails in FOLDERS…isn’t that weird? lol

      1. Anony*

        I hate when I delete something and it automatically opens the next one. I had to dig though my email settings to turn that off. Also on Team No Folder.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          Also Team No Folder. I used to waste SO MUCH TIME moving things in and out of folders. My email is either unread, flagged for follow-up, archived or deleted.

    2. Murphy*

      You can set it up so it does show you the next email instead of bringing it to you to the inbox. I can’t remember if it’s in the settings, or if it’s in the labs (opt-in special features that I think are technically in beta and can disappear.)

      Can you set up some kind of filter or automatic labeling? I do the two inbox thing (a feature I know is in the lab) so anything with a particular label gets put into a second inbox.

      1. Murphy*

        I found the first thing I mentioned. It’s called “Auto-Advance” and it’s under Labs. (Labs is a tab under Settings)

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I hate the Gmail app. Inbox by Gmail is marginally better but the app I really love for managing my gmail account is called Spark. However be warned that it removes stars from archived emails which is annoying if you aren’t expecting it…

  101. Courtney*

    Question for teachers – would you prefer for a student teacher to call you by your first name or Ms. Last name? My cooperating teachers both introduced themselves and sign off e-mails using their full name. Obviously in front of students I’ll refer to them as Ms. Last name, but I feel kind of silly calling them that in regular conversation – this is a second career, so they’re only a few years older than me. But some of my professors insist that I should stick with the more formal title unless they insist otherwise. What do you guys think?

    1. Ruth (UK)*

      I don’t have direct experience here as I’m not a teacher, but some of my close friends are teachers, and both my parents were teachers (both recently retired) their whole career. I’m also in the UK in case that makes a difference. So I guess I’m trying to say that I may not necessarily be the best person to answer but here’s what I think:

      I think if you’re unsure, it’s safer to go with Ms. Lastname until/unless you’re corrected (eg. “oh, call me Jane”).

      Basically, it’s impolite to call someone one thing when they’ve requested the other – so, to keep calling them Jane if they’ve said they want to be Ms. Lastname, but also equally rude to keep calling them Ms. Lastname if they’ve said they prefer Jane.

      But until you know which they prefer, I think Ms. Lastname is the more polite. I think it’s less of a mistake/slight/impoliteness etc to use a title more formal than necessary than to be too familiar, until you know their preference.

      And because if the context of them using Ms. Lastname in the school setting, it won’t seem as jarring to them. I think in non-school settings, it would be weirder to call someone Ms. Lastname unless you were told you should.

      On a slightly related note, in a dance group I am part of, we have a member, who is 21 years old, who was was previous student of another member, “Jane” who was his teacher in highschool. He mostly calls her Jane now but sometimes slips and says Ms. Lastname. She usually replies by jokingly calling him Mr Lastname back (and he usually corrects himself).

      1. Anony*

        My mom is a teacher. Most of them refer to each other as Ms. Lastname because that is what they have to do in front of the kids and it becomes a habit.

        1. Anony*

          And by “most of them” I mean the teachers at the school she works at. I don’t know about teachers in general.

    2. Claire (Scotland)*

      I’m in the UK, so I’m not sure if this is different where you are. I’m a teacher and have trained many student teachers. I expect them to call me by my first name, as a colleague (staff here use first names to each other, we only use titles and surnames with the students).

      The only one I’ve had who kept referring to me as Miss (Surname) was the one earlier this year who was an incredibly weak and unprofessional trainee. It was FAR from the biggest problem, but it did highlight how unsuited she was.

    3. Humble Schoolmarm*

      I would say first name. When the students aren’t around I’m on a first name basis with my colleagues and I think learning to switch based on the context is good practice for your future career (welcome to the party, btw). That being said, I wouldn’t have been offended if my current student teacher had started out calling me Ms Schoolmarm, I just would have asked her to call me Humble. (I’m in Canada, if that helps).

      1. Courtney*

        Yes, I’ve noticed they all address each other by first names, that’s why I felt a bit awkward and have just been managing to not really call them anything yet.

        Although now that posting this question has me thinking about it harder, when I met with them last week to prep for the beginning of the semester, they took me to meet another teacher and their wording was “Let’s introduce you to *first name.*”

        I realize I’m overthinking this, haha. Should probably just focus on my lesson plans, learning all the kids’ names, setting up good classroom management, etc.

      2. Julianne*

        Yup, totally this. And most of us slip sometimes and call our colleagues by their first name in front of kids…it’s really not a huge deal.

    4. Middle School Teacher*

      I’m in Canada (if that makes a difference) and I usually tell my student teachers to call me by my first name when there are no students (since we are essentially colleagues), but by Miss Lastname if there are students around. It’s how we address each other at school too (for example, in the staff room I would call you Courtney, but if I were talking to you, or about you, around students I would call you Miss Smith). My advice would be err on the side of conservatism and call your mentor teacher by their last name until they indicate they’re good with being called by their first name.

    5. blackcat*

      I did my student teaching in the northeast US. Definitely first names. I’m not sure if there’s a region in the US that would be formal enough to use last names.

    6. Mobuy*

      Call me by my first name around other teachers or when we’re by ourselves, but Ms. Lastname around kids or parents.

  102. Wannabe Tech Writer*

    I have questions about getting into technical writing!

    For some background, I’m currently working in IT as a help desk technician. I have my bachelor’s in IT, several certifications, and experience with software development. All jobs I’ve had involved a ton of writing documentation, both for end users and fellow IT staff, and I realized that I enjoyed it a lot! I’m not a bad writer, either – my SPAG is more than adequate and I’m good at adapting to different writing styles as needed.

    However…I don’t have any training or certifications in technical writing, or formal experience besides the documentation I’ve written for work. For those of you with experience in this field, what can I do to break into it?

    TIA!

    1. The Grammarian*

      You don’t need any certifications in technical writing. The documentation you’ve written for work, if you can use it for your portfolio, plus your IT background should make you a prime candidate for a technical writing position. Companies that work in software dev are often looking for people with that background so that they can more fully understand the product for which they are writing documentation.
      I say, go ahead and revise your resume (using Alison’s great advice!) and go ahead and apply. (Source: am a technical writer with a liberal arts background)

  103. Retail Feet*

    Does anyone have any advice for how to transition out of high level retail into another industry? I guess my question is more about what industries would need/welcome my type of experience. I’ve managed high luxury stores in one of the biggest cities in the world, 8 million-15million stores, I’ve opened locations, worked on the wholesale end and buying as well. Generally speaking, the retail industry isn’t what it used to be, and as I get older I fear the future of retail. What else can I do?

  104. Overeducated*

    Update in the saga of dual career waiting: everyone is still waiting! Mine is due to bureaucracy, got an email from the hiring manager saying “no final approval for the position yet, maybe a late January start if we’re lucky, happy holidays!” Husband’s is academic so they are basically going on break for a month before he hears anything.

    Meanwhile I’ve been invited for a multi day out of state interview, but not sure if husband’s prospects are good there. The Christmas miracle my heart desires is two jobs in one metro area.

    1. KR*

      Husband and I are also in limbo. US Congress hasn’t approved military reenlistments yet (I’m assuming this is tied to the budget which is not passed) so while we know what job and assignment he got approved for, we haven’t been able to sign for anything. And that makes my job nervous because they don’t want to hire me on as a full time employee unless they know I’ll be here and not moving soon. Ugh

  105. I'm A Little TeaPot*

    Started my new job this week. It’s pretty boring right now – training, lots of people out for the holidays, etc. But everyone seems friendly and welcoming. Overall, a good beginning.

  106. Bostonian*

    Does anyone have any success stories navigating working in a department that doles out opportunities based on seniority and “fairness” rather than merit?

    My boss is extremely supportive, and she and I share a lot of values/ideas about navigating the working world. However, she straight up told me that even though I’m amazing, growth opportunities are going to be limited to prevent the appearance of favoritism. She named specific opportunities that she says I’m ready for, but I’m going to be passed over for because my 2 coworkers have been here longer. The department’s management as a whole has decided to distribute work based on optics and “fairness.” I feel like I’m living in Atlas Shrugged and it’s kind of demoralizing.

    In a way, I’m glad that this is the worst problem I have at my job. I really like what I do, and the pay and benefits are great. My team is (generally) great to work with. I feel like I have enough challenging work now, but I’m worried about the future.

    What have you done to make opportunities for yourself in this situation?

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      I’m not sure what you mean by growth opportunities here, but if you’re thinking of attending conferences and that sort of thing, there are grants out there for people who can’t get funding from their employers to attend. That might be something to look into.

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        Also, I don’t blame you for feeling demoralized. I would be, too. That’s a crappy way to arrange things, although props to your boss for being honest about it I guess?

    2. LQ*

      Often what happens is someone leaves for another org and then comes back (and they will often leave with boss and even higher ups blessings). If you have left and come back you can get back in and a higher level or you have other opportunities available to you because of that.

      You might also look for opportunities that are rather than a direct promotion lateral and slightly up.

      If your boss has been honest I might seriously consider sitting down and having an open conversation. Maybe not if you are still full up to capacity on challenging work, but once it drops/you improve a little bit more. What other paths does she see as possible?

      1. NW Mossy*

        I’ll echo the advice to lateral. I was in a situation about 5 years ago with a similar flavor – despite having my direct boss’s support, my grandboss wasn’t willing to put any real support behind my efforts to make positive change for our area. I ultimately ended up moving over to another area with an amazing manager and senior leader, and the two of them helped me create the trajectory that kept getting blocked by ex-grandboss.

        Ironically enough, what goes around comes around. Amazing Manager replaced Ex-Grandboss upon her retirement, and AM hired me back into the area I left at a higher level. I’ve been back since April and it’s been awesome, not to mention that I picked up a lot of useful connections and knowledge during my hiatus from the department.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      I’ve had to move departments. I waited 2 years for a literally promised promotion in my previous department. I had to move into something that I wasn’t very well prepared for, but I was still able to knock it out of the park. I have more champions for me in my new department, and am getting a lot more opportunities. It has turned out to be a better path. Don’t be afraid to make a lateral or backward move. Your current managers won’t change, and you’ll fight this as long as they are there and you are there.

  107. Strawmeatloaf*

    This has probably been addressed by Allison before, so if there are links or something to articles that would be great, but I have a huge problem being distracted at work.

    I’m not making excuses, but part of it is feeling tired all the time (probably diagnosed depression) and having a hard time concentrating when I’m hungry, but part of it is I feel like I need to get into better habits of doing everything first and not getting distracted. I don’t have that much at my desk, but I do have access to the internet, so that’s the problem. I’m trying to get into better habits in the rest of my life too (exercising again though the days won’t be consistent, trying to clean up my apartment, hoping to be able to do better next semester at school studying-wise, etc.). So anyway, any tips, tricks, books, links, etc. would be very helpful!

    1. NW Mossy*

      I’d strongly suggest Gretchen Rubin’s “Better Than Before” – it’s a great book about developing positive habits and halting negative ones. It’s particularly insightful because it’s framed around the idea that people work differently when it comes to habits and that you’ll have better luck if you structure the habits you’re trying to form in ways that align with your natural tendencies.

      I’d also suggest from personal experience that trying to change too many habits at once becomes overwhelmingly quickly. Starting with one small, low-stakes habit and gradually building momentum seems to work better because you don’t get that shock-to-the-system effect. Some small habits I’ve done in the past are using password management software (a real game-changer for digital life!) and a routine of putting on hand lotion every day in the winter. They’re very small, but they do help to take some of the sand out of your gears and make it easier to move up into the harder things.

    2. Matilda Jefferies*

      Seconding “Better than Before.” You might also try “ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life” by Judith Kolberg and Kathleen Nadeau. Even if you don’t have ADHD, a lot of the tips and strategies there are just good advice for everyone.

      And speaking of ADHD, did you know that it’s often correlated with depression and anxiety? My own diagnosis came via that route. I was diagnosed with depression, but the antidepressants just weren’t working the way we expected them to. My doctor finally set me up with a referral for ADHD, and I got a diagnosis and new meds. And the difference is amazing – hurray for focus and executive function! It’s not necessarily true for everybody, of course, but it might be something to ask your doctor about if you continue to struggle.

  108. Amber Rose*

    Inventory today. Thousands of itty bitty plastic bits times a couple dozen boxes of said bits later and my back hurts like mad. Also I’m sweaty and covered in grime.

    It’s kind of fun though. Also free pizza and a chance to chat with the new people, get to know them a bit better.

    This job would be intolerable if my coworkers weren’t so awesome.

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      We did inventory last week. I feel you! I think I found all of the dirty places where things have been left to collect dust for the last 3 years.

    2. Snazzy Hat*

      I worked at a craft store & made a fun discovery regarding inventory! The display of serger thread (large cones) had an unnecessary opening between the thread-holding track and the back wall. Kinda like this:
      __
      | |

      While I was doing stock/recovery, a cone fell in the back. I reached my hand to grab it but felt an additional cone & pulled out both. Then I thought, “wait, how many are back here?”

      Turned out it was close to sixty. Sixty cones, hidden for who knows how long! O_o

  109. Lissa*

    Feeling a bit melancholy… I love my current job, but I think I’m going to have to get a new one soon, which makes me sad. I love my current job, but it’s contract, and I have a ton of work for about half the year, and have to really scrape by for the other half. Plus no paid holiday/sick day, benefits etc. It felt amazing to me coming from making barely above minimum wage for my adult life, but it’s not really letting me save very much towards things like owning a home or retiring in the future due to the uncertainty of it. Some people may have the initiative to find their own work in the off time but I’m not great at it.

    I was thinking I’d do this for a few more years, but I recently got approached (what I do is very specialized) by another institution for a permanent position. I will be doing what I do now, but in an environment I don’t think I’ll like as much. For various reasons I think going for this job is the responsible thing to do – it wouldn’t be till much later this year, after my current contracts are up.

    I talked to my supervisor about this today (VERY normal to give her this type of heads up) and she was so so sad. I told her that i loved this job, and we talked a lot about my reasons. She really wants to make a permanent position for me but it’s not up to her, so while I believe she’ll push for this, I highly doubt anything will come of it. She’s been great about getting me raises and dealing with difficult clients for me, and I always feel appreciated. There aren’t a lot of people who do what I do and she’s been struggling to find more people who can, and are willing to deal with the unevenness of the work – I think I will still be able to work for her part-time, since the new job has more set hours, and I really hope I can.

    I told her that it wasn’t even a sure thing yet – I hadn’t had an interview yet, just exchanged some emails, and she was SO sure they’d want me, which was flattering and all. :) but the whole thing is still a little sad for me.

  110. louise*

    My micromanaging boss took it upon himself to explain how to use a highlighter yesterday…. So that’s how my new job is going. I’m not at a point yet where I can point to independent projects that I performed successfully to get him to back off, but maybe one day I will be able to use a highlighter on my own. We’ll see.

    1. The Other Dawn*

      I wish you luck with that highlighter. I understand they can be really tricky to master. ;)

      That just sucks. I had a micromanaging boss, too, after having a fairly laid-back, hands-off boss for many years. One of the hardest things I’ve ever had to deal with. Didn’t matter how much of a rock star someone was. She just had to micromanage everything. Thankfully I was able to find something else after 10 months.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’m not at a point yet where I can point to independent projects that I performed successfully to get him to back off, but maybe one day I will be able to use a highlighter on my own. We’ll see.

      Take it slow, and don’t get discouraged.

    4. Rebecca in Dallas*

      Hahahaha good lord.

      I had a coworker who held a small “workshop” on the correct way to staple papers together. I mean, I get it that it’s annoying if people don’t straighten the papers first or whatever but this was even about what angle the staple should be at.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I’ve worked in a lot of places where everyone would just staple everything wrong quite deliberately after having that over explained to them.

    5. Goya de la Mancha*

      Your boss was in my Highlighters 455 class in college – it was a real doozy! He was the go to student though and came out ahead of the class at graduation time. Good luck to you, you’ll need it!

    6. Phoenix Programmer*

      The trick to micro managing bosses is too give them updates all. The. Time. Your quality will never be good enough for them to let up. Drown them in updates and they won’t feel the need to breath down your neck and will let you get on with actual work.

  111. AnotherAlison*

    It’s not a done deal yet, but I may be taking a new internal position next month. I would be traveling by plane to a new location in another state every M-F for 18 mos to 2 years. My question is about negotiating the offer.

    I’m okay with the package (keep salary same, allowance will total about $24000/yr), except for one thing. My problem is that I’m going to have to cover things at home that were done by me before. I’m married with an 8th grader still at home. I do all the household management, and my husband and I share kid pick-up from sports.
    My business is >90% men at my level, and a large portion of them have stay-at-home wives or no kids. (In a different situation, I would just move to the new location, but that would cut our income by an unreasonable amount.)

    On one hand, I can replace myself by hiring people, and I can afford to do that. On the other hand, no one else was willing to take this assignment. It’s a good opportunity for me, but I’m also filling a business need. Why should I have less money in my pocket, due to increased expenses (while also taking on a big personal hassle)?
    I’ve gone back and forth with this, because ultimately I would take the assignment as-is, and wonder if it is worth rocking the boat. All I would really want is like another $50/wk allowance, which would probably split the difference in my increased expenses. It’s also a little over 10% increase in the allowance, and 2% of my salary, for reference.

    What do you guys think? Suck it up and just take the offer, or push for some additional incentive?

      1. AnotherAlison*

        Sorry, each week. I’d actually be opening a new office, so I am going to the same place and would have an apartment there. (I imagine in reality it won’t be every single week, but maybe 3:1 or similar.)

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Whoops… you didn’t specifically say you’re a woman, but the language made me jump to that conclusion. Sorry.

      2. AnotherAlison*

        I am indeed a woman. Imho, a man wouldn’t have to worry about any blowback for asking, so it is a little different. A man who shares household responsibilties is a hero, but women who have to do the same aren’t as dedicated to work. I do get your point, though.

    3. Overeducated*

      I think you should ask, it sounds reasonable to me, but I don’t have the experience to advise on how to do that effectively. Good luck!

  112. Maeve*

    I started a new job a weeks ago that has a monthly appraisal system, the forms are all electronic and then you have a 1 on 1. I’ve had a string of poorly managed jobs in the past and have only had sporadic performance reviews. I’m still kind of clueless since I’ve only been here a month. I’m really not sure to write, there was a delay with some of my onboarding so I’ve still not been intro-ed to some of my duties. My first meeting is about a week after I get back from vacation, any advice?

    1. alannaofdoom*

      For pretty much any performance review you’ll want to be thinking about a) what are your strengths – what are you doing well, what are you proud of, etc? Since you’re still very new right now your accomplishments are probably mostly around learning what your job is and how to do it, understanding the goals and structure of the organization and how your role contributes, and the like. And b) where do you need more support? For you that sounds like making sure your onboarding is complete! Are there specific skills you need to cultivate or improve to succeed at your job? And so on.

      Keep in mind that a good manager (and I hope yours is good – it sounds like they at least have a specific process set up, which is often half the battle) isn’t going to make you feel ambushed or surprised by anything you discuss. And your manager should also be asking you for feedback about how they can better support you. It shouldn’t be an adversarial process – it’s a discussion between you and your manager to make sure you’re aligned on how you’re performing at the moment, how you *want* to be performing, and what steps are necessary to get you there.

      Good luck and try not to stress about it while you’re on vacation – I’m sure you will do great!

    2. LNLN*

      My strategy may not help this time around, but I maintain a Fixin’ to Ask for a Raise document. Every time I receive a nice comment from a client or coworker, I note it down. When I do something extra, initiate a project, or get top marks, I note it down. When I serve on a committee or solve a problem, I note it down. Then, when I do my annual self-evaluation, I pull out that document and commence with copying and pasting.

  113. Anon Marketer*

    So near last year I wrote about my boss and I headbutting and me seriously considering a new job. Somewhere after our fifth headbutt, the tone of the atmosphere changed entirely. I learned to ease up, she learned to ease up, and I’ve learned to be a lot more compassionate and less snarky/sarcastic this year, which has increased a lot of my rapport with my team. I’ve even been told people like working with me (Whaaattt??? This is new feedback to me and something I’ve never heard before! I almost cried!). There have been talks about a promotion in the works and my boss gave me a really nice bonus this year. I’m very happy. :)

    1. NW Mossy*

      I just want to tell you that as a manager, I love these kinds of stories. I’ve worked with a lot of talented people over the years who’ve been held back by weak relationships with others. It’s also something that managers generally aren’t great about giving feedback on, so the problem just continues and becomes increasingly frustrating for everyone. It takes real work, bravery, and insight to come to that recognition and be able to make the changes necessary to build those relationships, but the rewards are rich and I’m glad you’re starting to see them. Yay you!

  114. Elizabeth West*

    I have to go finish making Christmas presents (GROAN), so I’ll be back to read all these later. No news to report on that interview.

    I made my hairstylist a Felix Felicis necklace and she loved it. She put it on right away and hugged me. :D

  115. Rebecca in Dallas*

    I’m feeling very Bah-Humbug about the holidays at work this year.

    I’ve been with my company for about 7 years, have had various areas of responsibility in my department. In January, my boss asked me if I could take a position as kind of a “floater,” basically taking on any special projects and covering for any Teapot Decorators while they are on vacation or just need extra help. The Teapot Decorators each support one or two Teapot Designers and also work with a couple of Teapot Manufacturers, so it gave me the opportunity to work with different teams and just learn a little bit about each area. And in general it’s been great, I’ve gotten good feedback and have learned a lot.

    But now the holidays are upon us and the Teapot groups are giving each other gifts and going out for team lunches… and I don’t have a team, so I wasn’t invited to any of them. Plus, tons of people are taking time off for the holidays, so I’m spread really thin trying to make sure the Decorating part still gets done for each area. Oh, and I haven’t been able to get to any of my special projects, so those will be behind. Even though they aren’t that time-sensitive, nobody covers that part of my job when I’m out.

    It’s just been really frustrating for the past couple of weeks, I guess I just kind of realized that everyone is happy to accept my help but I don’t actually feel very appreciated.

    Anyway, bah humbug.

    1. Effie, who is worth it*

      I’m sorry :/ It sucks to not feel appreciated. Would it help if I offered you internet appreciation from afar?

  116. Second Lunch*

    I have an update! I’ve been coming to these Open Fridays for the past few months, asking thinly-veiled questions that were essentially venting.

    I’ve been in my Junior Teapot Maker position for 2 years and had been increasingly frustrated that Senior Teapot Maker, who came into the role only a year ago, wasn’t as knowledgeable at our job than I was, so I ended up taking on a lot voluntarily. We had some shifting in the department and Senior is going to be promoted to a Teapot Designer, which is what he prefers and neglects his normal duties to do.

    Clearly I’m a little bitter still that he’s being rewarded, but I’m more focused on the fact that I’ve been offered his role, but with more responsibilities, and hopefully more pay. I’m still in the negotiating process, so hopefully I come out on the other side with better news!

    Thanks everyone for keeping me afloat. I really, really appreciate it.

  117. Oyster Mushrooms*

    There have been lots of stories about annoying complaining coworkers; but when is it ok to complain? When it it productive or helpful or just “not annoying?”

    I didn’t complain at all in my first job and ended up with double work; and the girl who got mad about everything every ten minutes became a manager.

    1. Morning Glory*

      I think complaining is fine when it’s strategically pushing back with a goal in mind instead of venting for the short-term emotional release.

      That usually means going directly to the person that can help you fix the problem, laying out your concerns clearly, discussing possible solutions.

      Sounds like your coworker was a venter and got promoted anyway, which really sucks, but maybe her work performance outweighed that.

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        This is the distinction that matters, IMO. Oozing negativity is never a good look, but sometimes you have to point out what isn’t good to make it better – but the making it better, or at least trying to, is key.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Alison usually says that we should be able to explain how it impacts our work. If we can’t show that, then we may not have basis for a complaint.

  118. Paula*

    My agency sent me a notification that my contract has been renewed, and I’m wondering if there’s still any way for me to negotiate my pay rate. I’m fairly certain that my actual supervisor would agree that I deserve to get paid more, but I don’t know if this something to discuss with her or with the agency. Do companies even know how much their contractors are paid by the agency?

    1. CAA*

      Sounds like you are a W-2 employee at a staffing agency assigned to work on a contract at a specific employer? You should discuss this with the agency first. It’s their call whether to try to charge their client more for your time or to absorb an increase for you, or deny it. Ideally you would have done this when the previous term was nearing an end, but you can still try.

      Companies usually know approximately how much of what they pay to an agency ends up in the contractor’s check, but it’s just kind of general knowledge of the market, or from a contractor mentioning it. It’s not part of the agreement with the agency.

  119. Tiny Lighthouse*

    I just started a new job barely two months ago. I don’t think I’m a good culture fit and my boss is a micromanager. I want to see if there’s something else out there, but people are telling me that I haven’t given this place a chance yet. Maybe they’re right? I can’t be objective anymore. I’ve never thought about leaving a job so soon after I’ve started. Leaving now would look terrible, right??

    2. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      It’s not great to job-hop a whole ton (unless you’re temping) but once won’t kill you. And if you know right away it’s not a fit, trust your gut. If you find a better fit, go for it without guilt. Your employer will be slightly temporarily inconvenienced, but they will survive.

      Also, of course you’re not objective – it’s your own experience! That’s inherently subjective. Your opinion on the matter is the most valuable one. You don’t have to be ashamed of wanting a job that doesn’t make you miserable.

  120. Matilda Jefferies*

    Crikey. I was saying above that my job involves bugging people to do their admin work, and that most people don’t get to it until things slow down for them at year end. Then everything ends up on my desk at year end, and makes me extra busy.

    Turns out, it wasn’t just hyperbole. In a normal two-week period, I process maybe a dozen documents for publishing. A busy period would be about twenty or so. For the two-week period ending Dec 15 (which I just finished now), I processed SIXTY ONE documents. And pushed another thirty off to the next period, because I need to get back to the rest of my work as well! So I just did three times the amount of a “busy” period, and the total will be four and a half times what we do for the rest of the year. No wonder I’m so tired!

  121. JustaTech*

    Just venting: my awesome co-worker was brought on as a temp and the company has been dangling her around for months before finally (finally!) sending her an offer letter. But the official start date is Jan 8th, not Jan 2nd (even though she’s been working here for months) so she’s stuck paying $500 in crummy health insurance because she’s not willing to go without health insurance for 2 weeks until she can get formally hired and on our insurance. And when she asked to have her start date moved up (for this reason) HR said no.

    HR has been really bad about being inconsistent in how we should treat our temp-to-hire contractors and this just feels like unnecessary meanness.

    1. clow*

      When I cancelled my private insurance in the middle of the pay cycle they reimbursed me a prorated amount. She may want to make sure they don’t do this. It took a month or so, but they sent me a check in the mail.

    1. LadyKelvin*

      Yes: I moved to Texas for grad school (master’s) sight unseen. I hated it, but I got my degree and met my husband and some of my best friends. So there was some good in it. I then moved to Miami for grad school (PhD) also sight unseen, although this time I did go about a month before school started for a weekend to find a place to live. I loved it. Then I moved to Hawaii with just 2 suitcases and a week to find somewhere to live before I started working my current job. My husband joined me 2 months later. I love every minute of it. The difference between Miami/Hawaii and Texas? I knew enough about the area/culture/politics to know if I was going to get along with the people there before I actually moved there. Texas folks were nice but we were so far apart in terms of lifestyle, politics, just about everything that it was hard to feel like I belonged.

      2. Julianne*

        I also moved to a new city relatively sight unseen (urban Midwest to Boston with only a 2-day visit to inform my decision). Officially it was for grad school, but at this point it’s for the long haul, since spouse and I both have well-paying jobs here. (We’re going into Year 5.)

        I can’t recommend it highly, but it might well work out for a non-me person. I pretty much hate Boston and dream of moving back to the Midwest, but I’m a public school teacher, and the states I’d be willing to move back to are so hostile to public education at this point that the 50% paycut would only be the tip of the iceberg.

          1. Julianne*

            I’m not certain, but I doubt they’re significantly better – and definitely not on par with my current salary (or earning potential in my current district). The problem is both that teachers are paid so poorly in general and that I am lucky enough to currently work in one of the highest paying school districts in the country. Golden handcuffs and all; I do realize it’s a problem that I’m very fortunate to have.

    2. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      I moved to a country I’d never been before for a job. It didn’t work out so well, but that was because of the job, not the city. I actually miss the city I was in, and once I’m done with grad school I’m definitely going to look for jobs in that city (not exclusively, but it’s definitely one of the places I’ll be looking).

      However, I am extremely navel-gazey in general and had/have a good sense of what I wanted in a location (tropical climate, good public transportation, availability of food I like that doesn’t bother my GI issues), and that city met all of my most important qualifications. I’d be willing to try a place I’ve never been to before again (actually, I’ve never been to most of the cities I’m planning to apply for jobs in post-grad school), but I wouldn’t be willing to do it for a place that I wasn’t confident could meet all or at least most of my needs.

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        Just realized I used country once and city the rest of the time–I did move to a country I’d never been to. Loved that city I moved to in that new country and am planning to look in that particular city after grad school. Not sure about the rest of the country (in the sense that I haven’t thought about it, not that the rest of that country is somehow iffy).

    3. Rainy*

      Not for a job, but I moved to a country I’d never been before for my PhD.

      It was brilliant. I love that city more than I can possibly say, and if I could have stayed, I would have. Until I moved there, when people said that they loved where they lived, or had an attachment geographically to where they lived, I honestly thought that was just one of those dumb things people say. I’d lived my whole life in the Midwest US and I thought it was normal to hate where you live–so normal that it never occurred to me anything else was possible.

      I will never live anywhere I hate again–like, that move has changed the entire way I think about my life.

      The move was scary, there was a lot to adjust to and a lot to grapple with culture-shock wise, but it really was the making of the rest of my life. Nothing about my life has ever been the same since I made that decision. In the best possible way.

    4. Samata*

      I moved to a place I’d never been for my partner’s job – which he accepted site unseen and he had never been to the city before either. It was an adjustment culturally at first but we haven been her over 6 years and absolutely love it! He’s still in the job and I was able to find something I love.

      On the flipside I moved to a popular tourist destination once for a job – which sounded great because I loved vacationing there & knew my way around after many years of visiting. Living there was hell.

      1. LadyKelvin*

        I totally agree with you on the tourist destination point. The Miami you visit is very very different than the one you live in, same with Hawaii. Thankfully I had never been to either so I had no expectations.

    5. clow*

      I did, I moved to another country for a job. In my case, it turned out terrible. The job was toxic and my boss was insane and evil. I was lucky enough to leave after a few months for a much better job close to home. I would still be willing to try again though, but I would be careful and actually look for the red flags before accepting a job so far away again.

    6. The New Wanderer*

      Every move I’ve made as an adult (6 moves) was for school or jobs, all except one to places I’d never been to or only visited during the interview. I would say all worked out well, although I had grown up moving to new places so except for being alone, it was ‘familiar’ in a way.

      There were always things to like and dislike about each place, and I don’t regret any of the moves – I got to live in a few places that I wouldn’t have picked if not for the university or job. Given an opportunity to move again, I’d probably pick some place entirely new rather than some place I’ve already lived.

    7. TL -*

      To Boston first (miserable first winter, but ended up loving Boston!), to New Zealand for grad school (eh… it’s beautiful but we are not a great cultural match. The program is solid, though, and I’m glad I came), and in a week, to Sydney for a summer internship (I have a feeling I’m going to love Sydney.)

      I didn’t have a lot of money for travelling growing up and though I’m making it a priority now, I still don’t have the budget to fly out to places just to check them out. I do, however, embrace just throwing myself into something and thinking about it later.

  123. Language Lover*

    A few months ago I interviewed for, what I thought would be, a part time job that I could do around my regular job. I’ve always wanted to work at this place. It turns out that it was more hours than would be feasible for me to keep both jobs but not enough to quit my current job (that I really like so it’s not like I’m desperate to leave). I ended up not getting one of the two positions they had open; although the hiring manager sounded enthusiastic about me in her rejection. Having been on the hiring end of the spectrum, I’ve been there where other people worked out better for whatever reason even if it meant rejecting someone I thought would be excellent. I’ve even ended up hiring them.

    Fast forward to now and they’ve posted another position. Same department and full time. On one hand, this would be a better fit. On another, the person who left was one of the people who interviewed me. This would be the third person who left that department that basically has good benefits (including a lot of time off which is why I’m interested in it). So I’m suspicious.

    Would it be inappropriate to connect with the person who left to inquire about why they job hopped? Perhaps there are some deal breakers that would keep me from pursuing this job that she’d be more willing to address now that she has left.

  124. Grant Us Eyes*

    Oh boy.

    Finally bit the bullet and requested reasonable accommodations for a sensory processing problem, ie a private office instead of open plan. I have wanted to do this for years, and there’s been an empty office for months, but I held off because I hate, hate, hate people knowing about my neurological problems.

    Unfortunately someone got moved from open plan to the free office… The very day I planned to finally ask. Had I known he was moving I’d have asked earlier, but I couldn’t face admitting my problem.

    My request was (after much discussion) granted, and Anton is moving out.

    It’s more complicated because I’m more experienced than Anton, but he’s more qualified and quite a lot younger. And it would be unusual for someone of my grade to have office priority over Anton’s grade. And everyone knows I a) have wanted an office for a long time, and b) have a very abrasive personality at times.

    And of course he feels pretty rubbish, because he’s getting this massive perk publicly given to him then publicly taken away.

    And I feel even more rubbish, because there are only three explanations people will think of: Anton screwed up and is getting punished, I’m vindictive and somehow blackmailed my way in, or I’m so broken I can’t be around people and need to be put behind a closed door.

    Anton found out yesterday and either I’m being paranoid, or he’s been completely blanking me since.

    I’m annoyed at myself for not asking one week earlier, I’m annoyed at my boss for not giving me a heads up, I’m annoyed at my brain for being concussed, and I’m not looking forward to being known as either the office bitch or the office headcase. Just damn.

    1. TL -*

      Can you just be upfront with people? “I’m dealing with long-term effects of a concussion and I’ve been trying really hard to make it work in the open office but unfortunately it got to the point where I had to get accommodation and this was the only option.”

      And you should speak to Anton privately; just a quick apology/non-apology: “I’m really sorry the timing was so bad on this. I wish there was a different solution that we could find and I really appreciate you being so gracious about this.” And explain your need for accommodation to him, if he doesn’t know.

      1. Lissa*

        I agree! Unfortunately, if people don’t know, it does kind of look like you didn’t care about the office for the months it was open, and then as soon as someone else “got it” you suddenly needed it. I realize that’s not the case, but the timing is *so* bad here you may have to choose between other people thinking that, or them knowing the truth.

  125. Claire*

    Anyone have any experience not having a boss for an indefinite amount of time? The search for my soon-to-be-retired boss’ replacement didn’t pan out as expected and will need continue long after he leaves in February. Knowing how long hiring can take, I’m betting it’ll be 6+months before they find a replacement (if not longer). Anyone ever experienced this? Any advice?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Know who it is you can go to if there is a problem that needs to be handled by a higher authority.
      Also ask your boss’ boss how much of your boss’ work your will be expected to absorb.

    2. Jules the First*

      Build your network inside the office. When you don’t have a boss, you need lots of alternative routes for getting things you’ll need because you’re no one’s priority. You also need to raise your profile with other people at the level where your boss would be – one or more of them may end up responsible for your performance review and you want them to know good things about your work!

      On the bright side, being boss-less is a great opportunity to stick your nose into higher-level stuff and grow professionally while having lots of day to day autonomy. (I love not having a boss – it’s my favourite thing about what I do…we never have bosses because no one ever knows where to put my department!)

  126. Penguin Lifting Heavy Things*

    I was informed yesterday that I was going to be offered a job, with the formal offer coming on Wednesday. I currently make $47k at a nonprofit, and this would be moving to a for-profit tech company as an entry-level position. The position has actually changed a bit during my interview process – they are rearranging departments and growing. I found out during my final interview that the position would involve lots of phone calls (which I generally despise), whereas I was under the impression the position would include more research and going more in-depth with fewer customers (if that makes sense). The company is growing fast (but is very stable – it was acquired by a very large company last year), and there are lots of opportunities to bonus and be promoted (supposedly people in this position typically gets promoted within a year), whereas my current position has no promotion opportunities unless my boss leaves (isn’t happening). During my initial interview the recruiter asked for my salary range, which I gave as $55-$65k. She told me the position was actually “in the 40’s”. My questions are:
    1. How would you go about negotiating to get the top end of the $40s or even $50k even? They already give a very generous vacation package, and really, more vacation time doesn’t help pay the bills so I really need more money.
    2. Because the company is growing and making changes so quickly, what do you think the odds are I could negotiate sometime after starting that I do more of the research component and less of the phones calls? How should I go about doing that?
    3. Do you think it’s worth potentially putting up with something like making continuous phone calls in fun environment, with lots of potential to grow for a year or so at a company that everybody seems to love working for, or would you tough it out at your current job (which isn’t bad by any means, just no room for growth or increased responsibilities/income) until something better comes along?

    I know this is long, but I’m just not quite sure what to do. I’ve spoken with many people at this company and they all love working there, but the all-day phone calls is giving me pause. I keep going back and forth because who knows what the duties of this job would be in three months … but I wouldn’t want to count on that and the job be cemented in.

    1. fposte*

      It sounds to me like you’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole here. It’s a job primarily doing stuff you hate. Even when you thought it wasn’t, you were pretty far apart on the salary; I imagine you’d need more compensation if you were actively disliking the job. If you’d known what it was from the start and that you’d only get $49k, would you have pursued it, or is this the sunk cost fallacy?

      I think keep looking but stay in touch.

      1. Penguin Lifting Heavy Things*

        That’s a good way of putting it – I never thought about it that way (if I would have applied knowing the salary beforehand). I think I keep getting drawn into the grandeur of working at a tech company – so much vacation! snacks! coffee bar! great insurance! – and comparing it to my nonprofit trappings – less vacation, no snacks, Folgers, and meh insurance – that I keep overlooking that I would basically be spending 8 hours a day doing something that I dread doing once or twice a day here. I’m curious to see what they ultimately offer me, but I’ll for sure keep you all updated. Thanks!

  127. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

    I just had an interview that went SO well. In the past couple months I’ve entertained the prospect of being a manager, and the prospect of a job with so much freedom/responsibility that it feels like enough rope to hang myself with if I’m not organized and decisive enough. This job is both of those things, and would actually involve managing a whole team, not just one direct report. I want it. Bad. They seem as excited about me as I am about them, and when he asked about salary, I threw a stretch number on the table he told me the offer would be “a little more.” I’m so excited. I’m so scared.

  128. Goya de la Mancha*

    People who don’t stay home when they are sick – and have plenty of sick days left & we’re not busy, can seriously go take a long walk off a short cliff. Since my Supervisor and co-worker came into work this week instead of staying home, I am getting sick – 2 days before Christmas! >:( Thanks you guys, I REALLY appreciate it. People, just use your days, it’s common courtesy and it’s not like you’re losing pay if you stay home!

  129. Junior Dev*

    I got a full time job! It starts in early January.

    Does anyone have advice for making a good impression?

    I am trying really really hard to establish a routine that allows me to get there early every day because depression makes that hard for me. I’m also concerned about having low energy and difficulty concentrating sometimes (and yes, I’m working with my doctor on it). Any advice for making clear I care about the job and want to do well despite these challenges?

    1. LQ*

      I aim to cheat a little. I try to really work very hard my first week to make an incredibly solid impression because that’s what is going to carry through over time. You can break it down, but first impressions matter a lot and if you can really set it strongly people will have a hard time believing something other than their first impression.

      Get in early. Take notes. Ask good questions. Listen more than you talk. Don’t talk about your old job. Don’t make suggestions on how to change things you don’t understand in the first week if you aren’t 100% hired to do exactly that, instead ask why something is done the way it is to try to better understand it. If you have expertise in something offer it (I’ve got experience in/have worked with/whatever), but don’t push that at all. (And don’t offer in an area you don’t want to work in. I didn’t tell anyone I was a great grant writer until I’d been here for 4 years and established myself doing other work I wanted to do.) Listen for gaps. When someone tells you how to do something take notes. Ask for clarification. And try to do it on your own after that, don’t be afraid to ask for more help, but if you are asking for help after notes and clarification you’ll be in a much better place than if you are asking from a place of not having done that.

      I know that not everyone does great with taking notes but it is such a strong visual signal that you care and want to do well I’d take notes anyway, even if you have literally never done it in your life, will never look at it again, and don’t like doing it. If you really really think that notes are evil and 100% always remember everything perfectly then ask really good questions as you go along. But seriously, notes. Our memories are never as good as we think they are, and you asked about making it clear. That’s the best way I’ve ever seen to make it clear that you care about the job and want to do well.

      1. Snazzy Hat*

        My now-manager commented to her colleagues in my second interview that I take thorough notes. She’s right, but having that recognized before I was even hired was a slew of green flags. If you take lots of notes, your supervisors will see your eagerness.

        The biggest thing I can say about this is, jot down details. When you start out, no one will be surprised to see you writing, and everyone will be worried if you don’t write anything at all. Past and present supervisors have appreciated my reading back notes to them as confirmation that I understood what they were telling me (especially with odd situations or new projects).

        Oh, and since I suspect you’ll worry about this (I also suffer from depression, anxiety, and holycrapmyfirstfulltimepermanentjob), if you have kickass notes, you’ll eventually get the flow of things. Your frequency of questions will diminish. You’ll have moments of revelation and of suspicion, and that’s okay. If you have an awesome group of colleagues, to boot, you’ll also gain a support network of people who are glad you’re asking questions and are noticing when your questions get more advanced. I’ve been told several times that people are much more receptive to questions (including utter bafflement questions or “I need a pair of fresh eyes because I am struggling to stay awake” questions) when you’ve done some research.

        But most importantly, congratulations! {waves pom-poms}

    2. MidwestRoads*

      My best advice for making a good impression is to be eager, try to learn as much as you can from people around you, and don’t be a know-it-all. You’re the new guy (or gal)…people will probably be wary of you at first but if you can respectfully demonstrate over time (with your skills) that you’re deserving of a position on their team, you’ll be just fine. Good luck!

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      *air punch* I’m so happy for you! Congratulations!

      I saw a great tip on Reddit: draw a map of the desks around you and write people’s names as it’ll be easier to remember them.

  130. MidwestRoads*

    An attorney I work for thinks “demonstratable” is a word. And “timeness.” And “circumventry.” Like…what?!

    No question, just a little Friday-before-the-long-weekend vent. Happy holidays, everyone!

    1. LQ*

      Those totally sound like words I’d make up. Thought I do love demonstrable as a word, because monster, so maybe not that one. But circumventry? LOVE IT! I love making up words. As long as you are clearly communicating what you mean it’s just fun! :)

      (If my attorney put those down on paper in a legal word sayin thing I might pause those…)

      1. Courtney*

        Thank you! Thought I was losing it for a minute there when I read this.

        Also, are you sure he’s not saying timeliness?

        1. Courtney*

          You’re right – but I would argue that is also a real word. Granted, a less commonly used one, but it does show up in both the Oxford English Dictionary and Merriam-Webster.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      The word ‘timeness’ should, I think, be used to mean the way time slows down in dull meetings.

      The timeness of the meeting overshadowed any productive discussion.

  131. Joanne*

    So about six months ago, my company recently hired someone to help cover for a big project we’ve been working on for about a year. I was tasked to train her the first month of her hire, and then was paired up with her to work on parts of the project. She’s super friendly, nice, and since we’re only about two years apart (we are in our late 20s), we became good friends outside of work. She gets along with most of the people in the office and generally fun to have around.
    The problem is…she is, for the lack of word, incompetent. This is not her first job, and from what I’ve heard, she has done similar work in the past. But she makes a lot of mistakes on her side of work, and I find myself correcting her mistakes more than often. I did notice this trend the first month when I trained her, so I have approached to her about it then that she needed to step up her game if she wanted to continue working here. I could tell that she was very embarrassed. She apologized many times and promised to do better.
    But it’s been five months since then and she has yet to improve. She continues to do the same mistakes, and to my bewilderment, even makes entirely new mistakes. And each time, I have to correct it resulting in an increase in my workload. Obviously, this is also creating a strain in our personal, friendly relationship with her. I find myself so irritated and disappointed in her that I simply do not want to hang out with her anymore. Our company rarely does evaluations but I consider maybe bringing this up to our manager. How do I tell my manager that our new hire is a nice person but not really up to our standards?

    1. fposte*

      Quickly, that’s how; preferably five months ago, but now will do. It sounds like you’re in an unfortunately manager-lite or manager-free culture, but your manager really should know that one of her staff is spending a lot of time fixing the mistakes of another. And that’s the real issue–not just that she’s not up to standard, but her being not up to standard means you have to do a fair bit of her work (the “making sure it’s correct” part) as well as your own.

      1. Effie, who is worth it*

        Yes. Rip off the bandage. Have a candid professional conversation. Make sure to be direct and honest. Don’t try to soften your language to be nice because that minimizes the impact she’s having. Also don’t get personal (calling her lazy or sloppy). Focus on what is actually happening – your manager might not notice since you keep fixing things.

  132. Almost Violet Miller*

    What is normal notice for you when you are asked to travel for work? Do you know it weeks ahead or does your manager sometimes ask you to fly somewhere the same week?
    Do you often fly very early/very late and are expected to attend meetings after 10 hours of flying and layovers or after a couple of hours of sleep?
    If you can share any company best practices or policies, please share. I’m curious how other companies handle business travel.
    I know this really depends on the industry and the role as well. My situation: I am not a manager and the activities where my presence is needed can (could) be coordinated a few weeks in advance.

    1. CAA*

      As an exempt employee living on the west coast of the U.S. and traveling to the east coast, I’ve frequently flown on Sundays in order to be at a client site or teaching a class by 8:00 AM on Monday. I’ve also taken red-eyes, but that is an absolute last resort for me because I hate them so much. If I wasn’t needed until later in the week, I would travel during the prior work day, but do whatever work I could on layovers or in the evening after arriving at the hotel.

      To get home, I would typically get a 5:00 PM flight out of the east coast airport and arrive back on the west coast around 11:00 PM or a bit later. If the next day was a weekday, I’d go to work but try to make it a short day and leave a little early. Taking evening flights going west means I’ve made it to a connecting airport and missed the last flight out or had it cancelled several times. If that happens, I do not sleep in the airport. I call a hotel and take a cab and all of that goes on my expense report. Nobody has ever batted an eye about paying for an extra night in that situation, even when I was billing travel to the government and my expenses would end up higher than the approved estimate, they always got paid.

      Advance notice for travel could be anywhere from a couple days to a couple of weeks. Sometimes I would know possible travel was coming up a few weeks ahead, but usually nothing got confirmed and finalized until two weeks or less; and there were plenty of times when I’d be asked on a Friday to be somewhere by Monday or Tuesday.

    2. KR*

      I’m an hourly CA based employee. I usually have a couple of weeks notice at least but have been asked to make last minute travel plans. My manager asks that I take extra days as need be (have travel days separate from work days, stop to rest for the night if I’m feeling tired or worn out, arrive the night before or the day of). He’s pretty flexible.

    3. Jules the First*

      Heh. I’ve been asked to travel on the spot (as in, “we need someone to go to Rekjavik today; your flight’s at 2pm…”), but it’s more normal to get at least a week’s notice. Best practice, unless you’re dealing with emergencies, is about a month’s notice.

      One of the things I love about NewJob is that they have awesome VC facilities so I only need to travel if I have to go to a client’s site.

  133. Snazzy Hat*

    Control-F “snazzy” on the Open Thread from November 24th &25th for context.

    My s.o. got into the CNC machining program! His last day at his current job is the 30th, and he starts school after a three-day weekend. His work supervisor is trying (and failing) to get him to work part-time, but then we’d still be looking at us not seeing each other until nearly midnight, and him getting six hours of sleep. Lack of employment is expected to be very short-term according to the program coordinator. I tell my s.o. it’s totally fine that I’m going to be the sole provider for a little while, since I love my job; “I’d be pissed about it if I was the breadwinner but hated going out and winning that bread.”

    He’s really looking forward to cooking again! :-D

  134. Please Help Me*

    I work in an office with 5 other people assigned to my group. We also have “Stacy” who is mentally challenged, probably autistic, and schitzo-affective. She “works” in the office because her father is very politically connected to our company, but she does nothing but irritate and intimidate people. She babbles incessantly, yells at people who aren’t there, kicks and punches the walls, hits other employees, and has stolen from multiple people in the office. The only silver lining to her presence is that her parents often “take her out of work” to travel with them or to engage in her leisure activities (she plays a few sports with special olympics)

    Her fits have become worse over the past year. Our manager and his manager (grand-manager?) met with her parents, but that didn’t get results. In fact, an friend of mine who is also friends with grand-manager told me that the parents flat out said that the company better make this work or they’d sue them for discrimination ad the father would use his political capital to destroy the company.

    When I personally raised a concern with the mother (she drives Stacy to and from work every day) because Stacy had taken an item off my desk and smashed it to be “funny” I suggested that maybe she should talk about her frustrations at work with her therapist. The mother said Stacy doesn’t go to a therapist or take any medication because “there’s nothing wrong with her” and stated that she hadn’t even taken her to a doctor in 10 years aside from a “doc in the box” for the occasionally sinus infection. Then the mother handed me a $20 and told me to “go get some starbucks or something.”

    But wait…it gets worse….
    Two weeks ago, Stacy shoved another employee down the stairs. There was no reason for this…other than Stacy was having one of her fits. The parents were called, and claimed that it was an “accident” but surveillance camera shows otherwise. We thought after that, she’d be gone. And she was…until today.

    We were told Stacy is coming back after the first of the year. I’m at my wits end. I can’t even explain how horrible her behavior is in a simple comment. Some things she’s done to me personally are: steal, break my things, scream in my face, hit me in the back of the head with a ruler…the list goes on. I feel like I’m working in a prison. Management is useless. They are afraid of the father. If Allison wants more details to turn this into a full blown question, I can tell more Stacy Horror Stories.

    Would it be out of line to call Adult Protective Services since by the mother’s own admission she denies Stacy mental health and medical care?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I think you actually do need to call someone about this, yes, though I can’t advise who as I don’t think I’m in your country. There’s a whole lot of things going wrong here, from the safety issues and violence to the mother sharing private medical information about a colleague (if Stacy works with you, however nominally, it is not your business to be told if she sees a therapist). Stacy isn’t in an appropriate or safe environment – it’s not appropriate or safe for you or her.

      Your company is required to make reasonable adjustments or whatever the regional equivalent is. This isn’t reasonable.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Er, why weren’t the authorities called when the employee got pushed down the stairs? Yes, please get someone in authority to do something before Stacy causes more physical damage to employees.

      1. LCL*

        Yeah, this is how I would handle workplace violence. Since it’s obvious the company won’t do anything. If someone hits me at work I’m calling the law.

    3. Stellaaaaa*

      I worked with someone like this at my prior job. Her parents owned the organization. My sister is friends with someone in that family so I knew for a fact that this adult daughter/employee had a significant mental handicap. The only reason this was resolved was because the organization works with kids and she was abusing the children. It’s absolutely not a job for someone who can’t handle the frustrations of working with kids or navigate all of the problem solving that is necessary when you’re working with families who need the help that your org is providing. There are no laws on the books about this because it’s considered a given that adults with intellectual disabilities should not be made sole caretakers of groups of 20+ children. The state investigated and removed the daughter, and I believe the org is on the verge of shutting down.

      My experience is that companies that are forgiving of incompetent adult children are usually screwing over the talented employees in other ways. These are companies that are often “employing” dangerous employees and not actually paying them as much as they should, if at all. It’s a butt in a chair and some duties are getting done, but the owners are saving a whole lot of money AND preserving their political capital.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Your management needs to get a good attorney. While his lawsuit may not be successful he could still have clout to destroy the company. But maybe something can be done with his threats.

      There is no way an average company can accommodate this.

      In actuality her father is the abuser by forcing her into this situation that is such a poor fit for her. Picture yourself being forced to go repair cars everyday or any other activity that is not a good fit for you. I know I would be near tears by the end of the day, hopefully, I would not be screaming but I can’t be sure. When she acts out try to frame it as she knows this job is not a good fit for her.

      Try to find a nationwide advocacy group such as ARC (the arc dot org). I would call from home if possible to start discussions on what if anything might be doable here.

      While they are sorting this, maybe you can suggest she work shorter hours or fewer days. You can also ask what is being done to protect the safety of other employees.

      The bottomline is that you may need to seriously consider quitting if management is unable to move to protect ALL of it’s employees, including Stacy. I used to work with folks who had these types of problems and, yeah, it takes a team of people to intervene and redirect.

    5. Mimmy*

      Wow, Stacy’s parents are taking advantage of anti-discrimination laws. Does Stacy even LIKE working at this job? Things should’ve ended for good when she pushed the other employee down the stairs…that is a fireable offense.

      Please, please keep us posted.

  135. Effie, who is worth it*

    Late to the party, hopefully some other latecomers can shed some light on this dilemma!

    So as you may recall, I’m a dance teacher, and the dance community makes the line between social and professional fuzzy. The other day I was at my studio taking a class (so my brain was in student mode, not teacher mode) and after class I was chatting with a student and invited her to take a yoga class with me at another dance studio. She accepted and was really excited. After she left, my boss let me have it. Boss said she knew I was just trying to be friendly but it was really unacceptable that I invited a dance student to take a class with me at another dance studio, even though it was a yoga class, because I was a representative of Home Studio and why on earth would I bring one of our students to another dance studio and what if she fell in love with the other studio and decided to take classes there instead since they have yoga and dance where we just have dance? I apologized and said it wouldn’t happen again (honestly I normally have really strong professional boundaries around students and I just wasn’t thinking and I really felt awful) and our relationship is fine. However Boss asked me to consider cancelling plans with the student.

    So the yoga instructor contacted me and said she has to cancel classes for the rest of the year and will resume in January, which made my cancelling plans with Student moot. I let Student know and she said that we’ll just go next year.

    What should I do? I love the yoga classes, and I plan to keep going, but it would be going behind my boss’s back to bring Student (or any other student I know from Home Studio). I don’t want to lie to Student and say I don’t want to go anymore. I also don’t want to tell Student, hey, Boss is being weird about this since I am supposed to represent Home Studio and I shouldn’t have invited you in the first place. Can anyone outside this situation help me please? Thanks so much!

    Also Boss is one of my best friends and I’ve known her for years (I know, working with friends is tough, and I’ve done my best to maintain professional boundaries with her too – this is the first time she’s ever gotten mad at me in all the time I’ve known her)

    1. Effie, who is worth it*

      To clarify – I’m planning to never bring up going to yoga with Student again. But what should I do if Student brings it up?

      1. Snazzy Hat*

        Oof, on one hand, I’d want to tell Student that BossFriend felt it was unprofessional of you to suggest patronizing a competing (?) studio. On the other hand, as I hinted at below, that’s a major turnoff when someone tells me I shouldn’t go to another similar establishment. (This works on a lot of topics, ranging from restaurants to boutiques to big box stores to parks to whatever.)

        But on the other hand… er, I mean, but on one foot, maaaaaaaybe you could get away with hinting to Student that she’s always welcome at your dance studio for classes. Extra points if you frame it as “that’s what I do”.

        1. Effie, who is worth it*

          The problem is that it came from me :( If Student found the other studio by herself, BossFriend wouldn’t say a word. That horse is out the barn now though, no use closing that door

        2. Effie, who is worth it*

          I so want to tell Student discreetly that I shouldn’t have brought it up but I’m afraid it’ll get weird AND Student will probably go straight to BossFriend and say “Effie told me this!”; the dance community is so friendly that it’s hard to bring in professionalism and Student loves BossFriend so I don’t want to color Student’s opinion of BossFriend.

    2. Snazzy Hat*

      I’m giving a student’s perspective only here, so take from it what you will.

      Topic A: I have one dance teacher with whom I’ve taken classes at three different studios. I will be happy to take a class with her no matter where she teaches.

      Topic B: I have a dance teacher (Selma) at a different studio which also has fitness classes. There’s another teacher (Patty) at that studio who I feel is too advanced for me. I’ve had instances where Patty is substituting for Selma one day and I drop out partway through the session due to exhaustion.

      For someone who can pick and choose, the loyalty is directed at the teacher. I understand BossFriend is running a business, but I’d be livid if a teacher got annoyed with me (let alone angry) about taking a class somewhere else. How would she convince me to stick around, anyway? Sometimes the details make the connection; I’m very big on feedback in work and dance/fitness, so if I’m doing something incorrectly, I’d rather have my teacher say, “Snazzy, bring your shoulders back”, or walk up to me and ask, “may I?” before adjusting my posture, or compliment me on an improvement, than have her be an awesome person who doesn’t pay attention to whether her students have proper form. Just like how I appreciate when my boss tells me I’m doing great with my workflow and tasks. BossFriend seems unnecessarily competitive.

      1. Effie, who is worth it*

        Thanks Snazzy Hat! BossFriend is trying really hard to reestablish her brand and build a bigger community within our studio right now and from what I gathered she felt like I was stabbing her in the back in front of her since I’ve always been one of her biggest supporters; she probably thought she’d never have to worry about me encouraging students to try other studios (unlike her other instructors; I know she’s had words with them before). And the thing is, it was like a freak accident. I really wasn’t thinking. It was just a fun class I’ve enjoyed taking and I’ve been inviting my friends to go with me, and I forgot that this was a student I was friendly with, not a personal friend. But yeah, BossFriend may be feeling a bit insecure business-wise right now. And she said it’s okay for students to go to other studios but for one of her instructors to actively invite a student to another studio that student was unaware of, that’s the problem. Since students have a limited amount of time and money, and the other studio offers yoga and dance while we just offer dance, etc etc.

    3. TL -*

      If you take classes regularly, can you just say, “I’m always at yoga Monday nights at 8pm” and just leave it there, rather than making firm plans? You cancelled your plans already, doing what Boss wanted, and you’re not making other plans. (And maybe talk up one of your dance studio’s teachers while you’re at yoga together; like “I love how Yoga teacher’s voice is so soothing! Some people just have a knack for driving energy with their voices – Your Dance Teacher’s voice during hip hop classes always makes me want to move!”)

      That’s what I do when people want to work out with me – working out is something I do for myself and so I don’t fuss with other people’s schedules, I just tell them mine and if they can make it, great, and if not, oh well.

      1. Effie, who is worth it*

        Thanks! I just know that if I make any encouraging noises about taking a class there (even something as innocuous as “well I’m always there Friday, come if you want!”) BossFriend will take that as me making plans/encouraging students to try to competition :/ I’ve been very open that I only take classes at that dance studio for the yoga teacher; I don’t like the dance teacher so I never take dance classes there.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I have seen a lot of this crap in retail situations.
      Basically the boss has your paycheck and as long as you are there you will have to do what she says.

      I also know that this type of competitive attitude in business is really unhealthy and will eventually kill the business. So keep that in the back of your mind, that the boss is not aware of how she is killing her own business.

      Of all the options, telling Student the truth is probably your best bet. Understand here that if you have to lie for this boss, this is not a sustainable plan. You can’t keep lying for her every time something does not go her way.

      Perhaps consider going back to her and asking her what other rules she has. Tell her it is your preference to be told what the rules are BEFORE you make a mistake and not AFTER you make a mistake. Ask for the rules in writing.

      I worked for a grocery store who fired people on the spot if they shopped at a competitor. Because people do people-y things, they got rid of that policy after a bit. Maybe you can challenge your boss to think this through policies like this cause high turn over.

      1. Effie, who is worth it*

        Well, it is in our written instructor policies not to “solicit students” or “sell your own stuff” (ie if you’re teaching elsewhere, or you have a side job selling Amway or whatever, don’t solicit the students). So I think of this situation as a grey area.

        I’d love to tell Student but I don’t trust Student to be discreet. She LOVES BossFriend.

        I love your advice, NSNR, and I know that we shouldn’t be building our business by trying to step on others or forbid people from going elsewhere. :/ It’s just a shitty situation to be in, made complicated by the nature of the industry and personal friendships.

    5. Effie, who is worth it*

      I’m hoping this is all going to be moot because you know how you say you’ll do stuff with someone and never follow up? I’m hoping that’s going to happen if I never bring it up again. I am paranoid though so I’m gathering scripts and advice here. Thank you everyone!

      1. Effie, who is worth it*

        Welp, my worst fear came true! Student and I hung out tonight because when the class was cancelled we still agreed to hang out and when we were saying bye she said she wanted to be sure to do the yoga class with me. I didn’t bring it up. I tried showing her a different yoga studio where they only do yoga, no dance, and she said “let’s do both!”

        I really enjoyed hanging out with Student and plan to hang out with her again in a social context (coffee, nothing fitness related) instead of pulling back to just professional so I think once we get to know each other better I’ll bite the bullet and be honest with her and let her make an informed decision. Thanks everyone!

  136. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

    I finally got a job offer! Only a three month contract but it’s something.

    And of course, the day after I accepted that another company that I’ve applied to multiple times over the last year emailed me to ask me a clarifying question. All year they have not even responded to my applications, even though I have worked for them before and they all know me. So I might be in the position of having to turn down an offer with them, even though it would probably have better long-term prospects. Le sigh. I guess I’ll deal with that once they actually offer me something, assuming that they do.

    1. Effie, who is worth it*

      And if they really want you maybe they’ll hold the position after your contract, or maybe they’ll keep moving at a glacial pace so by the time your 3-month contract is over they’ll be ready! Best of luck :)

  137. Rocketship*

    I’m the OP from the “higher-earning male coworker” update – I didn’t get a chance to check out my update when it went up and now comments are already closed. (Which, totally fair.)

    For anyone who is wondering or was interested, I’d love to clarify a few things:

    – “Minion” when referring to my direct reports is absolutely a joke, and I’ve taken pains to make it clear that that’s the case to all concerned. The office culture in general is very a casual, relaxed, joke-around kind of place, so it’s not out of place for us – although I absolutely understand how it could be elsewhere. I am confident that both people I refer to as “minion” know that their work is valued, their opinions are heard, and that I am committed as a boss to supporting them. I’ve told each of them that my job is to make sure they’re successful at theirs, and as much as possible stop sh*t from rolling downhill to them. My apologies to anyone who was off-put by the terminology; it’s so obviously facetious in the context I know it that it didn’t occur to me it could be upsetting to others. If I even suspected that one of my reports was uncomfortable being referred to in that way I would knock it right off immediately. I won’t pretend that my workplace isn’t red-flaggy and dysfunctional in several ways, but I do my earnest best to counteract that dysfunction as much as I can for my team.

    – That said, I don’t think it’s unfair to describe the way I’m running my department as a benevolent dictatorship. As mentioned, my people are valued and respected and I seek their opinion and input on everything that affects their work life. At the end of the day, though, it’s my responsibility to make the decisions. I’ve yet to run across a situation where we couldn’t come to a consensus (benevolent), but if it came to that my team would need to understand that I’m the final word on the subject (dictator). It’s up to me to ensure that I am a good enough manager that if it ever did come to that, they could trust that I have their best interests at heart, even if they disagree with the choice being made.

    – The hilariously bad phone screen… I didn’t want to ramble on in my update, but it’s clear I didn’t fully convey how bad it was. To start, his resume was downright Spartan. One job listed in job history – completely unrelated to the position. His list of skills included things like “punctual” and “consistent,” and had a couple things on there that were definitely the same “skill” phrased different ways. Schooling listed a degree in another unrelated field. To be honest, I only screened the guy because he was recommended by a colleague. “Maybe he’s young, and writing resumes isn’t his strong suit,” I thought.

    I started off by asking him what my colleague had already told him about what we do. His answer was “Computers.” Seriously, just that one word. And yes, we do *use* computers… but that’s like answering “rice” when asked what you know about a company that makes sculptures out of famous figures from history for the mayors of small towns on the eastern coast of Australia using only American-grown wild rice.

    It’s a niche industry, is what I’m saying.

    So maybe colleague just didn’t tell him anything about the job. A little weird, considering he’d recommended the guy, but not totally unexpected. So I explained the company and the position as I usually would. When I asked him why he was interested in the position, his answer was basically that he didn’t like the job he had now. I asked him if he had any experience interacting with small-town Australian mayors and he said “Not really.”

    The question in my update was a question I ask at the end of every phone screen – specifically “Do you have any questions for me?” Context being, here’s your chance to get some more information on anything I might have forgotten to bring up. His response, as close as I can remember, was “If you were in my position, what questions would you ask?” Hence my reaction. It definitely did not come across as even an attempt at “What do you think I should know” or “What do you wish you had known” – as a couple commenters (Jen RO and I GOTS TO KNOW!) guessed, it came across very strongly as “I wasn’t paying attention/I don’t care/I read somewhere that you should turn the question around on the interviewer if you don’t know the answer.”

    Even so, I listed a few things – “I would ask about things that might be dealbreakers for me – like dress code, what my hours would be, will I be expected to work weekends/overtime, what’s management like… anything that might influence whether or not I’d want to take the job.” He literally said, “Yeah, tell me about those things.” The whole thing just ended up feeling like I was trying to get him interested in the job he applied for. It all added up to a big ball of Nope and left me wondering what my colleague saw in this guy that inspired him to pass along the resume in the first place.

    – I GOTS TO KNOW!, if you’re reading this: New (No Longer) Manager still sits right next to me and most coworkers agree he’s the most obnoxious person in the office. I do still have to interact with him as part of my job, but now it’s as peers rather than reporting to him. He hasn’t adjusted well to the change. Thankfully he now has a boss in the office that I can talk to when he blows me off, and that boss is extremely supportive of me and very interested in cleaning up some of the areas in the business that have been allowed to fall into dysfunction and incompetence. it’s not perfect but it’s much more manageable.

  138. Nanaland*

    I would like to pick the commentators’ brains on this situation, because I am finding it quite confusing.

    I have recently moved to a new country and was seeking work with a non-profit I have worked in before at home. Someone I got to know introduced me to a lady who was a little bit older who happened to so she can (supposedly) offer support on upcoming opportunities. I met up with the lady and found out she’s consulting for the org. I told her I applied for x position within the non-profit (closer to my age range and experience) after that she commented repeatedly that positions of this rank are below her experience. To my surprise, she left the meeting fuming. I didn’t think much of it, except the fact that she didn’t come across as very truthful.

    To my surprise she calls me two weeks later and tells me she managed to negotiate a position of the same rank of x (lol) into a higher rank, say y, and the org are going to hire her. Confused, I congratulated her as I wasn’t particularly invested in that position or org. I am keeping my options open atm.

    My question is: Did I unknowingly cross onto her territory when I told her I wanted to apply to position x? Should I have kept the information of having an ongoing application to myself (I kept it to the end of our meeting to test the waters, but she kept insisting she didn’t want a position x).

  140. Laura*

    I work retail… I just want to say I really appreciate people’s patience, and I really hope the resting tired face goes away for tomorrow. And that i don’t feel overwhelmed as I did this morning. (lots of people asking questions- only one available to answer felt like me) Thank you schedule powers that be for a shorter shift.

    The good outweighs the bad- again as I said in the weekend thread, I love being part of the gifting process. TWO MORE DAYS and then we start heading to normal again.

  141. FloweryDrapes*

    I’m in a new job for the last 3 or so months – the work is ok and the people are friendly. It’s a change in direction for me and a step down in responsibility (and salary!) which I was happy to take after a stressful previous position. I like going to work every day and there’s flexibility around working from home etc. which is something that matters to me.

    The problem is – being expected to answer the work cell phone when on vacation! Or just off for a day sick, medical appointments etc. I work as part of a team who are long established and are all fine with this. I’m not. I like to do my job until it’s done and then go home and forget about it until the next day. The famous line people use here when taking vacation days is ‘I’m on vacation for xxx days but call me if you need anything’.

    Is this how jobs are now? It’s already happened that I’m overseas for the holidays and one of my co-workers called more than once (in two days so far!) looking for me to help with stuff remotely. Luckily the security settings for our IT systems won’t let me log-in from outside the country :)

    1. Jules the First*

      It really depends on the job. Most of the senior people at my org are on email even when they’re on vacation, and they’d take a call if you made one but they’d be pretty annoyed if it wasn’t an actual emergency (by the same token, we’ll often pitch in on the odd conference call from holiday, but it needs to be pre-arranged).

      I think it’s fine if you want to unplug completely on holiday, but since the rest of your team is happy to be on call, you need to communicated really clearly that this is not how you work. That means briefing your boss and the rest of your colleagues that you will be unreachable; putting an out of office on your email that redirects emergencies to someone who can actually help; and cross-training willing colleagues so that there genuinely isn’t anything where you are the only person who could do it.

      Alternatively, you could just take your holidays in places with no cell service, which I did for a few years when work got too demanding. It’s hard for work to ask you to stay on call when you’re on a boat in the middle of the ocean…

  142. Ramona Flowers*

    I’m posting after the main rush, but I’m not desperate for advice. I’m mainly just using this space to process something outside of my own head.

    My newish colleague, Ravi, wants to do everything now now immediately, and I think he’s getting frustrated with me and my other colleague Liv because we don’t operate like that (all three of us do the same job).

    Thing is, I completely understand because I was the same when I started. I came from a media background, as does Ravi (nobody else in our immediate team does), and realised early on that I was still treating everything like it was urgent. I opened all my emails immediately and if anyone assigned me any work I assumed it was urgent.

    I’ve now got into more of a rhythm with this role, which involves a mix of rota / shift-based duties, short and long-term projects, and a bit of ad hoc firefighting. So when I’m assigned something new, I’ll prioritise accordingly.

    Ravi is still on media time. For example, he’ll comment on something in an email bulletin right after it’s arrived and seem surprised that I haven’t opened it (they’re not urgent or even essential reading, and I go through them in batches here and there).

    At around 3pm last Thursday, we got confirmation of a project we’re working on together. We’re working on this as peers but I’ll need to walk him through some resources and processes so there’s a limit to what he can do on his own.

    Ravi was taking Friday off, so this was his last day at work before the holidays. He wanted to talk about all the details of the project right away. I was wrapping up some other work, and I told him I couldn’t look at it now as I had a deadline, he was welcome to start thinking about it but it would be fine for us to get going in January.

    Ravi said, several times, “it’s just that I won’t be here after today”, like he expected us to make a significant start right then. (He did have other work he could do so I wasn’t standing in the way of his only task.)

    I reiterated that I had a deadline and needed to focus on that, and reassured him that we didn’t need to start now. I don’t think he really wanted that reassurance – I think he wanted to get going on the project already.

    If it wasn’t for AAM, I might have thought I needed to talk to Ravi (from one recovering journalist to another), or to our manager. But really, I don’t think this is my problem or my business except when I need to set boundaries around my own work (eg protecting time to meet a pressing deadline).

    But it’s hard when Ravi seems frustrated by my prioritising in a way I know is appropriate (I needed to wrap up the other project and not get distracted by shiny new stuff and I know my manager would support that). Not least because I had similar frustrations at first – so I’m also projecting my own stuff a bit.

    I wonder if I need to say anything or if I just need to keep setting the right boundaries.

  143. Usagi Tsukino*

    Hi everyone! Longtime lurker, first time commenting. I was hoping to get everyone’s insights on A Thing that has come up. I finished grad school in June and got a job last week (my first full-time after multiple unpaid internships!) that I start in early January. I am on probation for 6 months, during which I do not get paid leave (nor do I intend to take it). I am, however, planning to get married in the next year, and my fiance is in another country altogether. For multiple frustrating legal reasons, we cannot get married where he lives, or where I live, so we are looking for a neutral country to fly to and do the ceremony. This involves using our limited PTO to ensure we are free at the same time to fly there, get the paperwork and attestation done, and maybe have a short honeymoon if possible – which is complicated. How and when do I approach taking time off after my probation to my supervisor? I was planning to ask what the most busy parts of the year were in my first month, and then figuring out a strategy to say “Hey. I’m sorry about this, I know this is soon, but I am getting married and would like to take some time off after my probation to do it”. What would you all suggest? Thank you!

    1. Kickin' Crab*

      Congrats on your job and your upcoming wedding!

      It’s totally legitimate to use your PTO to get married and honeymoon! I think your script is generally right, but don’t apologize. Just say, “Hi [supervisor], I’m getting married this summer/fall, and as our dates are somewhat flexible, I want to plan it around the company’s busiest times. Are there certain weeks when things are usually hectic and you’d need everyone around?”

      1. Usagi Tsukino*

        Hi! Thanks so much for that! When would you suggest I bring this up? I don’t really want to do it in my first month because it feels like unloading on them.

        1. Kickin' Crab*

          I don’t know your workplace/field, but in my field, this would not come across as unloading at all. Rather, it’s better to get arranged with plenty of lead time. Maybe not your first day, but sometime in your first few weeks would be best. Do you have a check-in scheduled with your supervisor before the end of your first month? (You should! Early feedback is key, especially when there is a probation period involved.)

          1. Usagi Tsukino*

            Thanks! I actually have not met my supervisor yet, but when I do I was planning to ask if we could schedule a check-in at their convenience. I’m in the non-profit field.

  144. Kickin' Crab*

    I don’t have a question or concern, but I wanted to share a really great thing that happened this week — I have a job! I’d been interviewing since June and there was a lot of heartache and drama getting to this point (including one place where a current employee / potential future colleague snitched to the chair about a question I’d posted in a secret closed Facebook group — I’d loved that place for personal as well as professional reasons, but that was a dealbreaker!)

    Hooray for the Other Place, which I knew very little about going in, but turns out my passion project and their strategic plan actually align. The department head also treated me with a lot of respect during the decision-making process — answered lots of questions, didn’t pressure me at all — and when I asked a friend who works there what he wished the company would change, he was like, “Uh, well, the cafeteria coffee isn’t great.”

    It’s a little scary to move and start fresh in a new city with a new company, but I’m really thrilled that things have worked out and I have a job for Christmas!

  145. Chickaletta*

    Really late here, but I’m looking to vent and maybe get some advice if anyone sees this. :)

    My department of 20 is divided into two job titles, and the practice of management is to only let one person from each team get PTO at a time in order to not get behind (we’re in teapot billing where teapots are sold 365 days/year, so work truly can pile up when too many people are off at once).

    This makes it tough for the holidays, naturally, when everyone wants off AND it’s the close of the month and close of the year. There’s a scramble in the department to get in requests for time off which are awarded on a first come, first serve basis.

    The entire 2 week holiday surrounding Christmas/New Years for 2018 has already been spoken for. So has a certain week in October I wanted off in order to attend a friend’s wedding. So, not only am not getting a single day off for the holidays this year, I won’t be getting one off next year either. At least this year most people are taking just 1-3 days here and there, but next year an entire five-day stretch was given to a single employee.

    Is this fair? What are your practices in your departments?

    I’m trying really hard to see it from management’s point of view, but I’m really discouraged. It feels like there’s got to be a better way.

    1. Book Lover*

      Usually these things are done on a rotation. We can’t have more than a certain number of people off at a time. Everyone submits their requests a few months in advance, and when there is a conflict and too many people would be away, they look back to see other holiday requests and make sure one person doesn’t always get them off. I hope that makes sense. First come first served just doesn’t make sense for holidays.

  146. DmVista*

    Hello,
    I am looking to start a career/change career in my early 30s. Currently, I am an AmeriCorps VISTA – serving as a Digital Marketing Specialist for a NPO. I was a Pre-K teacher for a few years until I was suddenly diagnosed with an auto-immune disorder and needed near-immediate surgery. I stepped down as a teacher and worked part-time as a substitute teacher in addition to freelancing part-time as a digital media specialist (graphic design, photography, video production, content creation, WordPress CMS, HTML, CSS, copywriting and anything involving visual communication). I have knowledge in that area because I started learning Adobe when I was 12. And in all of the associations I’ve volunteered in over the years, I served in those type of functions. My VISTA will be done in June, and I’m starting to prep for the job hunt. However, I have no idea what would be considered “practical, quantifiable achievements” in the digital marketing space. As a VISTA I’m learning more about the marketing side, Ad management, Analytics, strategy, etc. However, I’m not sure how to quantify brand equity, visual appeal, and how that translates to a bottom line. I could talk about the analytic side, such as likes, followers and user engagement. I don’t necessarily deal directly with soliciting donations (other than the setup of FB donations and being familiar with iDonate) so I can’t say things like “Post A” caused a “$500 donation”. I know I’m a valuable team member, my boss in particular use to be the president of a major design firm and is relatively well known (think on all the local TOP # under # lists) and joined this NPO because he was really passionate about the mission. He actually advocated to see if the NPO could bring me on full-time after the VISTA term was complete. And while his boss agreed it would be nice to keep me, they had just hired my boss this year, and it took a few years worth of conversations with the board just to approve that position. So I know I must be doing something right, but I’m not sure what a hiring managing would value most. Any advice on what to highlight?

  147. Resume Question 1*

    Hi all,

    I starting my job search while I might be promoted by my company. If I did get the promotion, have not assigned any new tasks, and am still job searching after a few days of getting the promoted title, how should my resume for my recent job title be written?

    [Promoted Job Title] January 2018-present
    [Former Job Title] October 2015-December 2017
    -[Tasks from Former Job Title]
    -[Tasks from Former Job Title]

    Will this be okay if the tasks I do after my promotion is still the same as my previous job title?

    What if I got new tasks after I got promoted? Do I need to list them under my Promoted Job Title? Does it also depend on whether the new tasks are relevant to my future job search? What if the new tasks are not relevant for my future job search, can I leave those new tasks out?

    1. Chickaletta*

      Hmmm, I wouldn’t put your promotion on your resume so soon for a couple reasons:

      1) You haven’t had time to actually accomplish anything meaningful in your new role. A resume shouldn’t list your “tasks”, it should list your accomplishments.

      2) It could appear that you’re job hopping, or just looking for the next best thing. If a company can’t keep you even after they’ve promoted you, what are other companies going to think it would take to keep you on? It will make it look like you’re hard to satisfy and hard to keep around.

      Unless you have a good reason for moving on so soon, I’d wait about 3-6 months before adding the promotion to your resume.

      1. Resume Question 1*

        Hi Chickaletta,

        If I were to not add my promotion, do I write my previous title this way:

        [Former Job Title] October 2015-present

        or

        [Former Job Title] October 2015-December 2017

        The difference is the dates.

        Thank you for your advice.

  148. Resume Question 2*

    I have a second resume question:

    I have worked in the same department and have gotten a promotion. But after the promotion, I still do some of the work that I have previously done in my previous job title. How should I write that job task in my resume?

    Do I list the job task under both my Previous Job Title and Promoted Job Title?

    Or will that sound repetitive in the resume?

  149. Job Reference Question*

    Hi,

    When is the best time to ask for your references, so you can be prepared with them when your job offer requires them?

    I have been in my job for two years and am considered an “okay” employee; I have not have any negative feedback, but not sure if my managers find me favorable or not. Now I am planning on job search and I wanted to make sure that I can get a positive reference from my managers when I get a job offer.

    I wanted to avoid a situation when I finally tell my managers about my new job offering and then they say that they can’t offer me a good reference.

    I am also not friends with anyone else in my department, so I am just counting on my managers now. My managers have never been angry with me, but sometimes you might never know.

  150. Resume Question 3*

    I have a third resume question:

    I am planning on searching for an administrative assistant position after a few years of working in accounting. I have a Masters in Accounting, and I wanted to know if I can leave it off in my resumes for applying to administrative assistant positions?

    I have a Business Administration undergrad degree. A lot of administrative assistant roles might require some communication with the accounting department, but it is only one of its many other various tasks.

    I have a feeling that Masters in Accounting degree should be stated only if I were to pursue an accounting position again. Business Administration degree also includes courses in accounting.

    Should I leave the Masters in Accounting off even thought administrative assistant roles require some communication with accountants?

    Thanks,

  151. Solaire*

    Hi, folks. Writing kind of late but I hope I can get one or two pieces of advice.

    I wrote in a couple times over the last few weeks about confiding my health issues (autism spectrum disorder, plus panic disorder) to my boss, who sent me a really nasty email about “excuses”, threatening to fire me (“we need to have a serious conversation in January about your future here”), and sent that all out to a bunch of other managers in our department. First two posts here ( https://www.askamanager.org/2017/12/open-thread-december-8-9-2017.html#comment-1754007 ) and here ( https://www.askamanager.org/2017/12/open-thread-december-15-16-2017.html#comment-1764416 ).

    I decided that I’m going to leave this job. I don’t want to let myself get fired because then I’ll have to answer that in future applications/interviews, and I don’t want to deal with the stress of bringing it to court or the EEOC. We’re in the middle of a really tight period and quitting will put my work on other people. I am very conflicted about this because I realize how unprofessional it is, but I’ve been dealing with near daily emails from him saying he has “low hopes” or “no faith” in me CC’d to everyone else, lectures from the other guy, and I dread going into work every morning. I got written up for stimming out of stress at my desk this week. There’s no way I’m gonna get a fair shake at this company even if HR gets involved and tells them all to rein it in – he’ll just resent me for that and badmouth me to other people. I’ve only been here a few months, so I can probably just leave this job off my resume.

    My plan is to put in a week’s notice on Tuesday and tell the full story the couple of people I get along with offline. This is my planned phrasing: “I told Boss about a few health issues I’ve been dealing with and he threatened to fire me for making excuses, and then he told a bunch of other people in the department. So my last day will be Friday. I understand the position that puts you in and I understand if you’re unhappy with me doing this, but what Boss did completely burned any bridges I have here.”

    Is it worth saying anything to anyone? Is there any better way I could say this?

Comments are closed.