open thread – December 8-9, 2017

by Alison Green on December 8, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. KK*

    How is the dress code at your work? At my work, it’s business casual Monday-Thursday, and jeans on Friday. Usually on Fridays (along with jeans), people tend to wear tennis shoes and hoodies in the winter. It’s pretty much “anything goes” on Fridays as long as what you’re wearing is clean, and appropriate (not talking about The Office style “casual Fridays”!)

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I don’t know what our formal dress code is; my colleagues wear anything from jeans and t-shirts to suits, mostly varying by their hierarchical level.

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        Oh, and I wear anything from jeans, a blouse, and a blazer to wrap dresses. I wore a suit for the first time (in this job) this week, actually — I gave a presentation to the CEOs of several Fortune 500 companies, which is very much not my usual work day. :)

      2. JokeyJules*

        We are somewhat like that as well. Only the higher ups (who typically are also working in sales for the company) wear any sort of “business” clothing.
        The rest of us are in jeans and t shirts or whatever we threw on that morning. The handbook specifies nothing vulgar, hateful, or violent, but otherwise “use your best judgement”.

        We also all have pairs of slippers under our desks and frequently walk around in just socks.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      For me, it’s been highly varied, workplace to workplace. At my current job, I have to wear a specific kind of shirt (representing our department). At my last job, I could wear whatever (short of being obscene). The job before that, I had to wear business casual / semi-formal (depending on whether it was work or work event). The two jobs previous were quite casual (flip flops and t-shirts were totally cool).

    3. Amber Rose*

      No really loose clothing, dangly bits or scarves, no open toe shoes and no shorts or skirts, because of the machinery.

      Otherwise, whatever. Jeans, graphic T’s, bright colors. Any day of the week, it’s all good.

      1. Libby*

        Same here. Even though I don’t work with the machinery, because I’m around it I follow the same dress code as those who do.

        1. Amber Rose*

          Yep. I can wear a skirt or open toe shoes if I have a good reason for doing so, but then I’m confined to the office and can’t go into the production areas, which is pretty inconvenient.

      2. bloop*

        I work in a reference laboratory and it’s similar for us. No dangling jewelry, long pants, close-toe shoes. Long hair has to be tied back. And of course, we all wear lab coats while we work. But other than that, we can wear anything. I usually wear scrubs because I like having so many pockets, but I have coworkers who wear jeans, sweat pants, leggings. One guy on my team exclusively wears pajama pants and old hoodies. We work third shift, so most of us like to stay casual.

    4. Anonymous Poster*

      If we’re meeting with a customer, shirt/tie or the equivalent is expected. Ties can be foregone in the summer.

      Otherwise, nice jeans/polo are okay if just in the office, but generally people would just wear a button-down shirt and slacks in case a customer comes into the office. In these cases most people just work from home though.

    5. BlueWolf*

      Business casual with occasional “jeans days” on a Friday where you pay a certain amount that is donated to charity in exchange for being allowed to wear jeans. Occasionally, there will be a free jeans day on a Friday before a holiday or something.

    6. Murphy*

      I don’t know if we have anything formal. We’re basically business casual with jeans on Fridays. Director level and higher people tend to dress more formally. Some people wear jeans and more causal stuff during the week, but I tend to keep it to Fridays.

    7. anonanners*

      Business casual most days, with jeans and school attire or school colors on one day of the week (I work at a university). We don’t really do tennis shoes. Different departments have different codes, though – many non-student facing departments are allowed to wear jeans/sneakers all year round.

    8. D.W.*

      On the books we have a business casual dress code Monday-Thursday. However, folks show up in leggings, “nice” sweatpants, some in nice jeans, and others in suits.

      Fridays are casual.

    9. Tired Scientist*

      Ours is officially “business casual” but the dress code also says jeans are ok as long as they are not ripped. This, in practice, means that managers dress traditionally business casual while others wear jeans/t-shirts every day.

    10. Ainomiaka*

      My dress code is literally “clothes appropriate for job duties ” and no see through or backless tops. People can and do wear athletic wear, pajamas or leggings. That said I work in a lab, so business casual or business formal doesn’t really make sense here.

      1. Phlox*

        Yeah I’m the same. Currently wearing spandex and hiking boots. Just came from working outside and wearing overalls. But I mostly do office work and am in jeans and a t-shirt. Occasionally it’s more formal business clothes for external meeting and very two years, my suit

    11. Nervous Accountant*

      We wear anything and everything. Only thing off limits is shorts and ripped stuff.

      Amusing anecdote. We have a guy who is always dressed very formally (compared to most of us). Shirt tie slacks. One day he comes in wearing shorts cz it was 8000 degrees outside and the next day we get a mass email from my boss saying that shorts aren’t allowed. (Don’t get me wrong It was a very nicely worded email). It was amusing.

    12. starsaphire*

      My building’s full of engineers, so, sneakers and jeans and polos/dress shirts/sweaters is the go-to. Plain T-shirts are also seen a lot. I haven’t seen any Ts with graphics or writing or slogans, so I’m assuming there’s a rule against them somewhere, but I couldn’t say for sure. Some of the women enjoy wearing dressier clothes, but jeans and sweaters this time of year is pretty standard.

      One occasionally sees a suit and tie or a blazer over a nice dress, but that usually just means there’s a meeting going on somewhere.

    13. QualitativeOverQuantitative*

      For the first few years that I was at my current company we were just shy of business formal. Earlier this year we changed to business casual, but there hasn’t been a huge shift in how most of us dress on a daily basis. We all owned business formal attire, we’re not going to go out and buy a whole new wardrobe. Plus, if my boss is wearing a suit, I don’t want to be the person dressed casually even if it is technically allowed.

      The one problem with a more formal dress code is that my entire wardrobe is work-appropriate, so on the weekends I am either over dressed or in my pajamas.

      1. Rainy*

        My office is business casual–lots of people wear jeans etc. but I wear skirts and dresses exclusively (I prefer them, not a religious thing), with tall socks or leggings under and cardigans over in the winter, which is fine, but like you, I have basically work clothes and loungewear. When I’m at home I wear pajamas and if I’m running errands or going out socially I either wear a more casual skirt or dress, or yoga pants.

    14. De Minimis*

      It’s almost nonexistent. My boss [finance dept] dresses up somewhat, as do I, but I only do because I have all these business casual clothes from previous jobs.

      I work in a nonprofit.

    15. 42*

      Globally recognized digital company here.

      Very casual. Jeans and t-shirts are pretty much the norm every day. Everything goes, but I’ve never seen sweat pants here. Zippered sweatshirt hoodies yes, but never sweat pants.

    17. Red Reader*

      On-site: Business casual (skewed less casual for people who are higher on the org chart), no visible tattoos or unnaturally colored hair or denim of any color. I think that mostly covers it. We’re in a hospital, but not clinical, so scrubs are also specifically verboten for us. My manager tends toward slacks and sweaters, the level above her mostly sheath dresses or blouses and pencil skirts. (We currently have no male management in my direct chain of command for like, four or five levels above me. The one we did have for a while tended to wear polo shirts and khakis all the time.) Normally when I go on site, I do skirts and solid colored v-neck tees with a cardigan of some sort over top, and almost always in some combination of black, white and red. (The logo’ed cardigan I keep in my car is black with our white-and-red logo on it.)

      However, I work remotely 98% of the time, so today I’m wearing Hard Rock Cafe Rome sweatpants and a t-shirt that says “Well-behaved women rarely make history.”

      1. Not In US*

        My office is business casual (based on what people seem to mean on this website) but on the more formal end for anyone in senior management. So I wear sheath dresses, pencil skirts and occasionally black pants with a more formal blouse (or sweater in the winter). However, I do not have naturally coloured hair at the moment and no one blinked. I keep my dress of the formal end of things and my hair…well it’s not (think vibrant non-traditional colour). That said, we also get to wear clean, dressy jeans on Fridays.

        1. Red Reader*

          One of our locations (that’s in a non-patient-seeing building) does jeans on Fridays, but my onsite is generally in one of the hospitals proper, and no jeans there.

          My hair is actually usually dyed some combination of purple, green and/or blue in the bottom 6-10 inches of its length (I have butt-length hair), but I always put it up in a bun when I go onsite and nobody can tell. Though one time I went to a short town hall meeting at the non-patient-seeing building on a Friday, so I wore jeans and forgot to put my hair in a bun instead of a braid, so my great-grand-boss does occasionally refer to me as “the team lead with the peacock hair.”

          It’s not the hair rule that annoys me personally, it’s the tattoo rule — I have 23, including several that are below the elbows/knees, and while it’s not really a HARDSHIP to wear long sleeves (I’m in medical administration and our on-site offices are full of women who are nearer to menopause than I am, so invariably I’m wearing a sweater and still freezing while they’re fanning themselves), it’s annoying to have to always wear dark hose with a knee-length skirt. It doesn’t bother me so much during the winter, when I wear tights or whatnot anyway, but in the summer…. that’s why I usually end up just wearing maxi skirts instead of shorter ones. No hose AND no visible tattoos. :)

    18. Etak*

      We just switched from business casual to casual although we were already fairly casual before. Most people are still wearing the same outfits but now with jeans instead of black pants

    19. Can't Sit Still*

      Clean, neat, and appropriate for your geographic location (and job duties, if applicable). Best dress code I’ve ever had.

    20. RachelR*

      I work at a tech company in the engineering department. No one cares what I wear so long as I’m not naked/partially naked or in literal pajamas.

      I have blue hair, a lip ring and visible tattoos. People have come in wearing yoga pants or ripped jeans and no one gets bent out of shape about it. It’s great.

    22. Erin*

      I work at a marketing company so it’s very casual. Jeans, etc. The main rules are no tank tops, no jeans with holes in them, and tee-shirts can’t have sayings on them. If we’re meeting with clients we’re more likely to step it up.

    23. Berry*

      Basically nonexistant, I’d call it “smart casual.” Our handbook says (paraphrasing) “dress for what makes sense for the clients and colleagues you’re seeing.”

      That being said, I’ve never seen anyone wearing anything outrageously casual like pajamas, the most eyebrow raising being unusual lipstick colors and ‘business shorts’ in the summer.

    24. Aislinn*

      Our office is pretty casual, I’ve seen people come in gym shorts and sweat pants and no one says anything to them. The majority of people wear jeans with a collared shirt or dresses with leggings and stuff like that though.

    25. ThatGirl*

      Ours is very relaxed and I love it – the dress code is basically “no shorts, no gym clothes, no grubby athletic sneakers”. I wear jeans every day. Our staff is probably 70-80% women and most of us wear dark jeans, boots/heels/nicer shoes, cardigans or blouses, that kind of thing.

    26. Nan*

      Jeans/tshirts/sweatshirts. Sneakers. If we have C-suites or clients coming in, it upgrades to business casual or business dress, depends on who’s coming. Jeans are ok for C-suites, but sneakers and t shirts aren’t.

    27. Middle School Teacher*

      Our students wear uniforms so teachers wear business clothes (still business-casual but the higher end of casual, if that makes sense). For example, today I’m wearing a dress, nylons, and boots. We get jeans once a month with theme days. This month people can wear jeans (clean, no rips etc) with a green, red, or white top.

    28. JoAnna*

      Casual. Jeans, shorts, t-shirts, etc. are acceptable any day of the week. From what I can recall, the employee handbook just says that our clothing needs to be neat, clean, and office-appropriate (e.g., no visible underwear).

    30. Claire*

      I work in a smallish tech company, as long as everything is clean, covered, and unoffensive, we’re good. With one exception: no basketball shorts. Just those specifically. I have no idea what happened to ban them, at this point I’ve been here too long to ask! Apparently everyone gets the same talk during orientation so it wasn’t just a one off mention either. Our President/Founder wears jeans to work pretty much daily which set the tone for most, but some stick with regular business casual. Another woman in the department I wear a lot of athliesure now that afternoon yoga is provided. It is a sweet gig, unless your entire wardrobe is basketball shorts I guess.

    31. KMB213*

      I work in a three-person office – we really have no formal dress code. I try to wear business casual during the week, as my boss will often schedule meetings with clients that he doesn’t add to his calendar and forgets to let me know about, and I like to be a little more dressed up when we have clients in. I do keep a wrap dress in my car and a cardigan at my dress in case a client is coming in on a day when I’m dress down a bit.

      If I do wear jeans, I’ll wear a blouse. The other two people in my office are both men, and will sometimes wear jeans with a polo. When they have clients coming in, they’ll go with jeans, a dress shirt, and a blazer, but only wear full suits on extremely rare occasions.

      When I have to work on a weekend (rare, but it happens), I pretty much always go with jeans, but I still try to go with nicer jeans and blouse instead of casual/distressed jeans and a sweatshirt or t-shirt.

    32. zapateria la bailarina*

      mine is basically the same. every now and then someone will wear jeans randomly during the week. no one says anything and the rest of the outfit is usually dressier than what they would wear with jeans on fridays. i find myself dressing more and more on the casual side of business casual. a lot of the men here where tennis shoes every single day.

      1. zapateria la bailarina*

        also, i once asked for an employee handbook (so i could see the actual dress code) and was told we don’t have one. hr asked why i wanted it and i said, so i can take a look at the dress code. they never responded. part of me always wanted to go ham with my outfits afterwards, but i just can’t bring myself to be that unprofessional lol

    33. KR*

      So our company is based on the east coast and I’m on a team in the west coast in a small office with two other employees. When we have visitors or if I’m visiting the east coast offices (which are larger offices and spaces in skyscraper like buildings) I wear the formal end of business casual/business wear. Out here I go between dressing up because I feel like it or just wearing jeans and a shirt. Today I’m wearing jeans, a too big company t shirt, sneakers, and a big sweatshirt because it’s cold and I don’t give a f. I wear sneakers almost every day except if I’m going in the field and then I wear boots, and I usually try to wear a nice shirt and do my hair and makeup as opposed to wearing a t shirt and sweatpants, but that’s it. I love being in a small remote office!!

    34. MLiz*

      It’s not quite “come as you like”, but it’s relatively relaxed. My manager dresses VERY nicely, but she’s often in meetings with people a few steps above the rest of us. Jeans are okay if they’re nice jeans (no holes), I haven’t seen anyone wear sneakers, the men wear often button downs but by choice, t-shirts are okay if they’re ‘dressy’ (no motto shirts, no holes). In summer for women sleeveless is fine as long as the shoulder is generally covered (so no spaghetti straps, but if the curve of where shoulder becomes arm is exposed no one cares), no cleavage.

    35. Antti*

      When I first started, it was business casual through and through. On Fridays you could wear jeans, but you were supposed to donate $1 to the charity our department was collecting for for that quarter if you wanted to do it. I don’t remember exactly when, I think at the end of my first year, the entire company decided to relax the dress code to allow jeans (but still forbid T-shirts, athletic shoes, etc.), since most of us don’t have client-facing positions where we would be interacting in-person.

    36. ms-dos efx*

      Super casual. I wear leggings and t-shirts most days. I also work in an academic setting in a famously casual city, to the point where “[city name] business casual” is a whole other level of commonly-understood business casual and corresponds to what most of you probably wear at home on the weekends. LOL!

      I’m very grateful for this as comfort is my #1 priority and I am very easily irritated by sensory things. I don’t want to be distracted from my work by the way my outfit feels on my body.

    37. Arielle*

      Ours is literally “We want to foster our employees’ sense of style but please don’t wear anything you’d wear to the club or to the beach.”

    38. Alli525*

      I’ve been at my current job, at a college, for about 18 months now. For the first 17 months, I just mirrored what I saw from my bosses – biz cazh, no jeans – unless it was the day before a holiday or the weather was terrible, in which case I wore jeans. However, most people in my department wear jeans occasionally if not regularly, so recently I’ve decided it’s okay (if I don’t have any meetings that day) to wear jeans once or twice a week. I’m probably going to go buy a pair of gray slacks and keep them in my desk, just in case something urgent ever comes up.

    39. Beancounter Eric*

      Save for shareholder meetings, job interviews, and the VERY rare “coat & tie” event – client visiting the office for instance, chinos and a button-down shirt have been the “uniform” for 20-something years ….Fridays or snow days (Atlanta, where the mere mention of snow induces panic buying of bread, milk, and beer)..cargo pants and weather appropriate shirt.

    40. kible*

      basically whatever you want as long as it covers appropriately and isn’t ancient/full of holes/faded…most of the dudes wear t-shirts, jeans, and sneakers. some of the older people stick to nice shirts and khakis. i (girl) personally wear nice shirts and not typically tees, slacks or jeans, and sneakers unless it’s raining.

    41. Jenny*

      My office is business casual on Mondays & Wednesdays, business/business formal-ish on Tuesdays & Thursdays, and casual on Fridays.

      Our business formal is more like men in full suits and women in skirts/blazers but it’s such a far cry from our Fridays of jeans, tees, and sneakers that it takes a whole getting used to for new people.

    42. Buffy Summers*

      Pretty casual here. Jeans most of the time, or business casual. Unless I have a board meeting, in which case I need to dress up a bit. The rest of the office is also pretty casual. We dress it up for visitors such as monitors and auditors, though.

    43. Anon non non*

      The official “on the books” dress code is fairly strict – business casual every day, no jeans, no sneakers, no tank tops, no flip flops or thong sandals, no shorts, etc. I work in a small branch of the larger company. The person in charge here does not enforce the rules at all. Basically we can wear anything we want unless someone is in the office visiting at which time we’re asked to wear the official look for the company. I tend to lean towards jeans, sweaters and business casual tops.

    44. Bored IT Guy*

      Jeans/Polos and sneakers … I’m in IT, and almost all of my meetings are virtual. If we have an important on-site meeting, I’ll move up to Khakis, nice shoes, and either a polo or a button down. Full suit for interviews.

      1. RachelR*

        You don’t have to answer it over and over. You are, in fact, completely empowered to scroll past and completely ignore the question.

        1. Fact & Fiction*

          Yep. I often use the expand/unexpand thread option for the topics I’m not interested in. And considering how many people chime in on this type of topic every time they come up, they’re obviously popular with many. Open thread is the perfect place for these topics and that’s why we have the expand feature. No need to even scroll if one isn’t interested.

    46. LBG*

      We are lawyers, so I mostly wear suits, although many women here dress more casually. One calls it “lawyer casual.” On Friday we have business casual for a dress code, although people do sometimes wear jeans. Our clients are either uniformed military or civilians in business casual. A few execs wear suits.

    47. accidental manager*

      For the office, there’s no formal dress code. I usually wear jeans, running shoes, and short- or long-sleeved t-shirts without writing, but sometimes a hoodie, leggings, or flipflops. On Hallowe’en I wore a dress, expecting that someone would say “why are you dressed up?” but nobody did.

    48. clow*

      I work for a tech company, so…t shirts/tanks, jeans, shorts, pajamas. Basically just come wearing something. I generally like to at least look put together, but i dont dress up, that would be weird.

    49. Anon for This*

      We are business casual M-R and then casual Fridays with a long list of things we can’t wear.

      For example, no skinny jeans, no flip flop type sandals in the summer, no t-shirts that don’t have a local sporting logo. However, as casual Friday’s was only instituted a couple years ago, I’ll take it!

      1. KK*

        Just curious, why are skinny jeans off limits? I only OWN skinny jeans, I don’t know what I’d do on Fridays if I couldn’t wear mine!

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          Most of my jeans are the skinny variety as well, so I’d have a problem with this. However, I get why some companies ban them – some folks go too skinny and then don’t wear long enough shirts to cover their bits. That is not a professional sight to see.

    50. HannahS*

      In medicine in my area, it seems to be the most casual version of business casual. No sweats, sneakers, jeans, shorts/tank tops, but people definitely wear khakis with a t-shirt and sweater, or thick leggings with a long top. I like it.

    51. Lemon Zinger*

      Business casual every day. Some people wear dark jeans and don’t get caught, but I would never do that… my boss is one of the best-dressed people in our organization and I strive to be like her!

      1. KK*

        Admittedly, I’ve worn black jeans during the week. But, so does my boss (and several of my coworkers).

    52. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Jeans but no hoodies, graphic t-shirts, flip flops, typical sneakers. We are the main office of a trucking company.

    53. Kelly L.*

      We don’t really have one, but I unilaterally impose something a lot like yours on myself. ;) Mon-Thurs I try to wear business casual tops and non-jean slacks, or a dress. Friday I wear the business casual tops with jeans. And it’s cold as balls in my office, so all of these things get layered with a ginormous cardigan.

    54. GriefBacon*

      I’m in the offsite administrative offices for a mental health non-profit. Just HR and accounting. So we’re technically business casual with casual Fridays, but I’ve found that non-profit business casual in our city/state is what casual Friday would been everywhere else I’ve worked (think Chacos with khakis, puffy vests everyday, etc). So I mostly wear skinny khakis/chinos and sweaters or flannels, with dark wash jeans on Fridays.

    55. Xay*

      Business casual Monday-Thursday and jeans on Friday. Slightly more formal for meetings with external partners and funders.

    56. Toxic Workplace Refugee*

      The dress code at bad old job was casual to the point of sloppiness. This was at an educational institution. The sloppy old torn and faded blue jeans with holes torn in the were the worst and there were some employees who were absolutely poured into them. Shorts and flip flops were common for both men and women, and it was also common for men to wear tank tops. There was a middle aged woman who would wear capri pants with anklets and flat sandals.

      While there were slobs of both sexes, it seems to me that the men were the worst. Several men would wear those long baggy gym shorts and you could tell they weren’t wearing any underwear. There was a male graphic designer who would sit in his office behind his drawing board shirtless. (He was young, fit and handsome, though.) Related to dress is the matter of hygiene, but I’m not going to go there in this post.

      2. Jessie the First (or second)*

        Yeah, not seeing how capri = sloppy? At all? Capri pants come in all styles and are perfectly capable of reading as “casual workwear” and not “bumming around the house wear.” (And anklets? What…what is wrong with an anklet? Or flat sandals?)

        2. PhyllisB*

          I’m guessing, but maybe she means flat sandals and ankle socks? That would not be a good look with capri pants

    57. Sandra*

      I work at a finance and economics firm. Suits must be worn every day (no exceptions ever). We also aren’t allowed to wear any sandals or open toe shoes, and our hair can only be colors found in nature. It is a very formal and conservative dress code and applies to every single person who works here, no matter their title/position.

      1. Rainy*

        Strictly speaking, most colours are found in nature, especially if you consider frogs and tropical fish.

        1. This Daydreamer*

          I have long had a dream of owning a bead store. Now I know what the hair color rule is going to be if I ever pull it off.

    58. Sled dog mama*

      Our dress code is complex, not the clothing part that’s pretty simple.
      For clinical staff its scrubs, for non clinical is sort of business casual. Usually I wear dressy trousers and a nice shirt, today I’m wearing courduroy ones. My male coworker wears a polo shirt and dressy canvas trousers. The only hard and fast rules on clothing are no denim and no leggings, so far I haven’t gotten in trouble for wearing leggings with an otherwise appropriate skirt.
      Where the “dress code” goes a little off the rails is because we are a health care organization it requires no scents (no perfume, no scented lotion etc.), that all staff members wear deodorant of some type and shower regularly. Jewelry and hair style is determined by individual departments (color is supposed to be naturally occurring but isn’t enforced). Nails are to be no longer than X (can’t remember exactly because mine start splitting well before that point) and any nail polish must be clear or a natural color and in good condition ( although it’s preferred that we skip the polish).
      I don’t disagree with most of this since it’s really about cleanliness I do find it pretty funny that it’s written out so explicitly.

      1. Sled dog mama*

        Oh I forgot shoes, closed toed low or no heels are required
        One lady wears something like (https://goo.gl/images/1k7YmP)
        every day (she works in the office) but she changes into them when she arrives and out of them before she leaves.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I used to watch M*A*S*H and would get mad at Loretta Swit for having big long fingernails in later seasons–there is no way Margaret Houlihan would have those in a military field hospital setting. It was so unrealistic it would throw me out of the story.

    59. inkstainedpages*

      I work for a small non-profit, so it’s pretty casual! Officially, no t-shirts unless they have our logo on them, and dress professionally but casually since we’re customer facing. My typical outfit is dark jeans, heels, a blouse, and sweater, but I go more or less formal depending on my schedule for the day. Board meetings/community meetings are usually black pants or a dress instead of jeans. Days when I know I’ll be just nose to the grindstone in my office, I’ll wear a company t-shirt, dark jeans, and flats.

      Since it’s Friday and I don’t have any meetings scheduled today, I’m wearing a black t-shirt with our logo on it, dark skinny jeans, and heels.

      My colleague usually wears jeans with a t-shirt or polo. I’m the exec director, so I feel like I usually need to be a little more dressed up.

    60. Elizabeth West*

      Exjob was t-shirts and jeans, unless clients were in the office, and then we were expected to wear business clothes (not formal). Most people worked from home those days, haha. We weren’t supposed to wear graphic tees other than company tees, but everybody wore nerd shirts anyway. Some people wore business casual all the time because that’s what they liked, and execs tended to dress in suits, etc.

    61. Ashley C.*

      Casual – jeans and tshirts all week long. There isn’t much of a dress code other than “use your best judgement”, but if we have clients in office, we’re expected to wear business casual. (Can still wear jeans, though).

    62. Rebelliously Positive*

      Weirdly enough, the entire organization I work for is fairly business casual, though we’ll get notice if Very Important People come our way so we can dress up a little bit more. Despite this, I still dyed my hair mermaid colors and HR was completely fine with it, so I think it’s just a perception thing. Just be presentable, and no ripped jeans on casual Fridays.

    63. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

      We’re technically business-casual in the office area, and scrubs/clean casual that follows safety requirements in the lab. However, we tend closer to casual than business in a general sense. As long as we’re clean, in good repair, non-vulgar, and compliant with safety regs, it’s fairly lax. The bosses give us a heads-up if there’s a plan to have a client come visit us, or similar type event, so we know to spruce up more for those.

      So, offices: Anything from work-professional attire to jeans and a tasteful t-shirt on regular days. No flip-flops.
      Lab: Scrubs, jeans and tshirt, closed-toe non-fabric shoes forever

    64. kittymommy*

      Ours is really dependent on the office your in and job. Mine is business: no jeans, tennis shoes; I tend to wear suits, dresses, tailored slacks with blazer. The one next to me is”professional dress” ties and jacket for men, not sure how they define women. Other areas can do jeans on Friday, no t shirts though.

    65. QuakerBanker*

      The dress code at my job is extremely relaxed, and I love it. People here wear anything from dress pants and a polo/nice top to jeans and leggings. There are also no rules about hair color, visible tattoos, piercings, or jewelry. A coworker did wear pajama pants one day, and she was told that she needed to go home and change. But a formal dress code doesn’t really exist here. At my previous job, the dress code explicitly stated that white tube socks and thing underwear were not permitted. I often wondered how that rule came about, or how one would go about enforcing the no thong underwear rule.

      1. Ali*

        I’d assume that the no thong underwear rule is just “if we can tell by looking at you you are wearing a thong…. nope” at least I’d hope so but having heard of a Catholic school that back in the 80’s actually checked (according to an ex-student) maybe not. (No I don’t know how that could have been a thing either)

        1. PhyllisB*

          At a Catholic school, I can believe it. I went to a Catholic boarding school back when dinosaurs roamed the earth (early sixties) we of course wore dresses to Sunday mass. We were required to wear girdles and hose. This was just before pantyhose became a thing. And yes, they checked. The nuns would line us up and run their hands down our legs to see if we had on stockings. Occasionally they would even make a girl raise her dress and let her verify that she was wearing girdle and not a garter belt.

    66. TootTootTootsieroll*

      Large company. Business casual Mon-Fri which includes being allowed to wear jeans (dark wash, not ripped, not distressed), can have brightly colored hair, cannot wear sneakers, not supposed to wear open-toed shoes (but people sometimes do -across all levels, so C-suite is just as guilty as admin assistants), no t-shirts. Those who are having meetings are expected to dress up in more formal business wear on those days (dress slacks, formal shoes, etc). So if you never go to meetings, you can sit in the office in your adult garanimals, while the person sitting next to you might be in a suit.

    67. periwinkle*

      Business casual Mondays-Thursdays.
      Business casual or Seattle Seahawks jerseys on Fridays, even if it’s not football season.

    68. Pat Benetardis*

      We are also business casual, which means women wear suiting separates, or sometimes a sweater as top layer instead of a jacket. Men wear dress pants and long sleeve button downs, no jacket or tie.

      Friday is jeans day and most people wear really nice jeans and a nice top, shoes or boots. Men often still wear a button down, but maybe a more interesting one. Or they break it up with a sweater.

      Our business casual is the alternative to business dress, vs the khakis and golf shirts kind of bus casual.

    69. voluptuousfire*

      Jeans, really anything you like as long as it’s appropriate. Today I’m wearing a pair of leopard print leggings one of my colleagues called my “snazzy pants.”

    70. tigerlily*

      I work for a preschool and we are extremely “come as you are.” Like, more than one teacher has come to work in a onesie on occasion.

    71. Fortitude Jones*

      It’s the same at my new company, even though our official handbook policy says business dress Monday-Thursday. Our division apparently said, “Eff that – business casual,” but we are technically sales people in a relaxed field (transportation) so there’s that.

    72. JD*

      My office is so varied. Some days we are in gym clothes, most days just casual. I will wear a dress or jeans and a blouse. If we have clients in the building, which is not too often, think formal. I prefer to dress pretty formal overall though all the time. Not personally a fan of going to work and people wearing t shirts. Mainly because there are always those few people who take it too far and look sloppy, have holes, etc.

    73. NaoNao*

      We’re business casual, but people interpret it pretty widely. Jeans are okay (as long as they’re not holey or shredded/ripped), sneakers and athletic shoes are okay too. Leggings as pants would probably be out, but I haven’t seen it in the “enterprise” (exempt professional level as opposed to retail, call center or field) employees.
      There are a few very sharp dressers; sheath dresses and leather shoes/heels. Suiting pants with sweaters and a button down and tie. But that’s like 10% of the company here.
      Most people were knitwear, jeans, or khakis with a button down or sweater.
      My outfits range, but I generally wear “nice” jeans, comfortable but non-sneaker shoes, and a knit top with a jacket. My wardrobe is all over the place since my side gig is selling vintage clothing and I’m a fashion lover so I occasionally do “fancy sweateshirts” with “street sneakers” type of stuff.

    74. sheworkshardforthemoney*

      I’ve gone from formal uniforms which was nice to anything goes as long as the right body parts are covered. In my current workplace, common sense is the rule. We are adults and dress like adults. Right now I’m wearing long sleeve t-necks because I’m always cold. I only wear black pants because they go with whatever top I choose in the morning.

    75. H.C.*

      My everyday is layered top (polo/button shirt w cardigan/sweater) & khaki or black denim pants (or blue jeans on Fridays), occasionally suiting up for more formal occasions (e.g. press conferences, meeting with top-level higher ups). But I’m in LA, where dress code does lean more relaxed overall.

    76. Annie Mouse*

      We have a uniform. Determines pretty much everything from tshirt to shoes. Don’t get casual days but I like it, don’t have to think about what I’m wearing that day!!

    77. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      It’s kind of like business casual and gets more casual the further down the chain you go. So most of the directors wear slacks and button downs, the manager wear slacks, button downs and jeans and polos, and then all us worker bees tend to wear a lot of jeans and non-slack pants and various tops. On Fridays most people wear jeans and sneakers, including all the higher ups. I’m trying to look more professional and “dress for the job I want” so I tend to wear nicer things most of the time, but good lord I hate slacks and button downs. So my typical uniform is ponte skinny pants (yes I know they are dangerously close to leggings), long tops and sweaters, and ankle boots.

    78. I See Real People*

      A lady from another department came into my office wearing leggings as pants. Not the simple black ones either; these were loudly printed. Somehow, “Jeans Friday” has taken on a new meaning.

    79. Scubacat*

      Our dress code can be described as ,”No pjs or thongs. Don’t wear clothing with a swear word on it. No tattoos on your forehead.”

      Usually I’m dressed in 1950s inspired retro dresses.

    80. Book Lover*

      We are business casual all day every day. Suits for the men usually, sometimes three piece and sometimes slacks and a jacket, but mostly standard suits.
      The women do mostly suits or skirts and tops. I used to stick to different colored suits but have done more dresses in the past few years. I think I will head back towards suits but don’t feel like buying new so have to lose a few pounds maybe to fit into the old…. Everything gets boring after a while so switching back and forth is something to do.

      1. Book Lover*

        Huh, just went back and read the other comments and I guess it is business formal though weirdly I never thought of it that way.

    81. Leela*

      i’m pretty sure that as long as I’m wearing them, it doesn’t matter what they are. I work in games so we are very (very, very, very) casual. Unless I just showed up in a bathing suit or a shirt with something outlandishly offensive, I don’t think anything would ever be a problem! It’s fantastic and I hope I never have to give it up

    82. tink*

      My current job is at a grocery store bakery, so slip-resistant shoes, long pants (no leggings, nothing full of holes, not so baggy customers can see your underpants if you bend over), shirts with sleeves of some sort but no logos unless they’re for the store or approved vendor swag (and sometimes sports teams, if the store manager’s cool with it). The chef’s coats completely cover shirts in my department, but the front of house doesn’t have that coverage and the rules are the same for everyone.

      My last office job was business casual and people really stretched the letter and spirit of that, plus it was poorly and inconsistently applied. I generally wore khakis or more relaxed black slacks with a polo or less casual blouse, but some people lived in those really thin knit dresses that barely extend past the butt.

  2. Amber Rose*

    Yesterday I asked my boss if I could use 2 of my 6 sick days in 2018 for surgery instead of taking them out of my vacation time.

    His reaction, paraphrased, was to roll his eyes and say, “you were sick a lot this year, will you be less sick next year?” He then said he didn’t legally have to give me sick days at all if he didn’t think it was worth it, and repeated the bit about how people notice I’m gone a lot and it makes them sulky or suspicious or something.

    I called in sick 8 days this year. It was a bad year for my chronic illness, which I’ve been up front about having. I took those 2 extra days unpaid willingly.

    I can’t stand it. I find it impossible to focus on my work or care about any of this when I’m basically treated like untrustworthy scum because I dared to have an illness.

    How the heck do I focus? I can’t realistically job hunt until the new year and it’s gonna take a long time anyway. Every day I’m here I just feel like garbage.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        +1

        Even though I have an allotted number of sick days, I know my boss isn’t keeping track. My boss has specifically told me and my co-workers we can use sick days for mental health or even to take care of a sick spouse or child. People using sick days here actually improves morale (instead of making people “sulky or suspicious”). And, lo and behold—since we’re adults being treated like adults, nobody is taking advantage of the system. People aren’t calling in sick excessively. They’re actually doing their jobs!

        1. Amber Rose*

          Yeah, in all the places I’ve worked that had paid sick time, I’ve never seen people abuse it. Or if someone did, they usually had some other issues going on.

          1. LKW*

            My first job out of college, I was an admin. We had sick time. The others in the department would each get sick once a week. 7 women, 5 consistently got sick once a week. And no one ever got sick on the same day. Eventually the manager left and they promoted me (hey, I showed up every day) and I put a stop to that nonsense. Eventually by actually having people show up to work I was able to reduce the staff down to 3.

    2. RVA Cat*

      You are NOT garbage. They are being insensitive jerks, and treating you like a machine – actually worse than one, because most people realize machinery needs regular maintenance.

    3. Myrin*

      Oh man, that sounds totally sucky. I don’t really have any advice but FWIW, I’m almost certain that the ominous “people” who “notice [you’re] gone a lot and it makes them sulky or suspicious or something” are actually just your boss. In a fulltime job with people I see 40 hours a week, 8 days missed (that is one single day about every six weeks, even less if some of those were taken at once) absolutely wouldn’t even register with me at all.

      1. starsaphire*

        This, this, this. Generally speaking, the vague “people are saying” usually means “I am thinking, and therefore just assuming other people think so too.”

        Your boss is a jerk, and unlikely to change. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. *hugs*

        1. Althea*

          And sometimes, “I’ve complained about this to other people, and they have nodded and smiled so I assume they agree with me 100%.”

      2. Amber Rose*

        It’s not the first time I’ve heard that lecture either, which honestly has been kind of hurting my relationship with my coworkers a bit. I’m scared they’re complaining about me. :(

        1. OhNo*

          If it helps, think of it this way: can you come up with the exact number of sick days each of your coworkers has taken this year on the spot? Probably not. Neither can your coworkers. I bet if you asked, they’d probably just say, “You were out sick? When?”

          (And tbh, if they are tracing your days off, they’re just as much of a jerkbutt as your boss is, and their unreasonable opinions officially Do Not Count.)

        2. Mishsmom*

          Your boss sounds like an ass. And I can’t imagine your co-workers complaining to him about you being gone 8 days a year. Are they going up to him personally and saying “so and so is out again and it’s the 5th day she’s taken this year”? No, they are not.

        3. JulieBulie*

          I had a boss who said things like that to me, and one of my coworkers overheard him.

          That coworker took me aside later and told me that it wasn’t true, that they didn’t resent me, and that I wasn’t making their jobs harder. (I didn’t think I was, but that doesn’t mean that people won’t complain just to be spiteful, so it was good to hear.) That meant a lot to me.

          I’m very skeptical that they’re complaining about you, especially if they know about your health issues, but if they are, then I hope they remember this when they need time off to deal with a personal or family crisis of their own someday. Very few people get all the way through life without something like that coming up eventually.

          Also, keep in mind that he might be treating your coworkers the same way, in which case, they’re too worried for themselves to notice your absences.

          OK. Later, I DID have a coworker (different company, different boss) who complained to our boss about my attendance and tattled about my punctuality. (Coworker did not know anything of my health issue.) I had logged something like 24 sick days that year (that’s right, three times as many as you), which I had to cover with sick time, vacation, floating holidays, personal days, etc. I also got all of my work done on time, often on weekends. Our boss told the nosy coworker to mind his own business.

          I hope you get a boss like that.

      3. KayEss*

        I mean, I’m noticing right now when people are out sick, but that’s because our department is at 1/3 staff and everyone’s looking for new jobs… so when someone’s out I kind of hope they’re secretly at an interview.

      4. Not So NewReader*

        This is actually a failing on the boss’ part. If employees are sulking around or carrying a poor, suspicious attitude that can be addressed. We are not responsible for other people’s attitudes, it’s not your fault these folks are sulky. The boss needs to tell them to get over it and they need to resume having professional behavior.

        I don’t know if I would do it or not, but I would be tempted to tell the boss that the people who never take sick time tend to be the people who die young. No job is worth dying for.

    5. Anonymous Poster*

      Focus on controlling what you can and making sure you’re doing the sorts of self care I’m assuming you already do – get enough sleep, do some things you enjoy, etc.

      I’d also suggest seeing about starting to job search ASAP. I know you said you can’t until next year, but I’d do whatever is possible now, from polishing your resume and writing down places you want to look to practicing job interview questions. Whatever you can do to shorten the job hunt timeline, the better.

      Most supervisors want to be good people, and would understand these things happen and not hold it against you. This sucks and is not normal.

      1. AJ*

        I agree – make job searching a top priority. In the mean time, you can get through your day by reminding yourself you are better than your boss – you are a kind person and he is not. If you were the boss, you would never manage in such a crappy way. He doesn’t “get it” and he probably never will. You get it. Getting it means you are on a higher level. I agree with others that your coworkers probably don’t care as much as you think, but if they do and if they are “sulking” they are being jerky and don’t get it. It sucks right now, but this situation has given you experience in how to be a good boss and good coworker (not that you needed to learn that, but I have found that being treated poorly has only made me more thoughtful and empathetic towards others). So, joke’s on him! He’s making you a better person! If you have trouble focusing on work, remind yourself you need to finish as strong as you can to support any reference you may need. Pick very specific small goals/tasks to achieve each day that if completed mean you have been successful. Change something in your work space/desk to pull focus from the situation – like a colorful desk blotter or poster. My town has an art supply store that sells beautiful craft paper. Really pretty/intricate designs, marbling, etc. Artists use them for book making. They come in big sheets and are relatively inexpensive for all the uses you can find for them. Find a new interesting podcast to listen to during your lunch hour. Schedule something after work you enjoy doing so you can have something to look forward to. You can do it!

    6. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Damn, that must be really difficult.

      8 days of sick time is not a lot. He’s mean and petty.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        I have worked for places where one or two days was an unforgivable sin, right up there with murder.

        The reality is that people get sick. Many treatments take time and require numberous appointments. I don’t know what these bosses will do when faced with a chronic illness themselves.

    7. L.*

      Ugh. This year I used up all 10 of my allowed sick days, 3 vacation days, and a lieu day on sick time this year – whereas last year I had 4 or 5 sick days left over. It was because this year I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and had TONS of appointments in addition to living with the effects until I was diagnosed and treated, and then I got a brutal double ear infection last month that took me out for a week. My boss just said, “You know what, Lauren, it happens. You can’t control when you get sick and I don’t want you here infecting everyone and not being productive.” She’s awesome (for that and many other reasons). She’s even letting me borrow a couple of vacation days from next year so I can keep my Christmas vacation.

      Your boss sucks. He just sucks. This is a terrible way to treat someone, flat out, let alone the worst way to motivate someone to dedicate their time and energy to their job. You’re not garbage, and you deserve to be in a workplace that values you as a person.

    8. Jessie the First (or second)*

      Being gone 8 days in one year is NOT being gone a lot. Not at all. For pete’s sake, one bout with the flu would do that. He’s being an a&&, and also completely unrealistic.

      And hey, maybe in your state the company didn’t have to give you sick days – but the company *did* give them, making that a completely moot point. Those sick days are part of your total benefits package, and complaining that people use what you gave them is downright stupid.

      I am sorry you work for a jerk.

      1. Amber Rose*

        That confused me too. Like, if you want to take away sick days, go for it. That’s your call, whatever. But why get mad at me because I assumed I could use them when I was told I had them?

    9. PB*

      What a jerk. Who the heck notices someone missing 8 days over the course of a year? That’s not much! “Sulky and suspicious?” It’s 8 days!

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. Please know that this guy is a jerk and you don’t deserve this. If you can job hunt, I hope you do. Even if it takes a long time, getting out of a toxic environment is so worth it. In the meantime, take care of yourself, and just remind yourself that he’s the one with the problem.

      1. Bleeborp*

        I am in no way defending the boss but depending on the kind of work it is, yeah, coworkers will notice 8 days if every time the person calls in, another person has to cover (if it’s a job that requires shift coverage.) Of course, it’s just the reality of working with humans and everyone wants to benefit of the doubt if they get sick or develop a chronic condition but in the moment, when you’re inconvenienced, you might feel less charitable and grumble about it.

        1. Troutwaxer*

          On the other hand, since her boss is an ass, he is probably lying about what her coworkers think.

        2. Amber Rose*

          I’m a department of one. If I’m not here my work just doesn’t get done, which doesn’t matter since nobody knows or cares what I do all day.

        3. SignalLost*

          I work a job that requires shift coverage. If people call out or don’t show, we make do with the people we have or borrow from other departments. What we don’t do is make the person who called out feel like crap because they were sick. Don’t blame shift jobs for a terrible boss who lacks empathy.

    10. Marley*

      It’s been a bad year for me medically. I ended up using vacation time for surgery because I was out of sick time six months into the year. But you *have* sick time–why in the world couldn’t you use it? Get a good doctor’s note as back up for how long you will need to be out, and make sure you cc HR when you send it to your boss.

      Hunker down and do your basics now–refresh your linkedin profile and set up some job searches in your personal time if you can, and you’ll be ready to apply in earnest in the new year.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I did end up asking my boss what good is having sick time if we get dinged for using it. That is the same as having NO sick time. She had no answer.

    11. KMB213*

      I know can be really difficult, but I just completely mentally separate work from everything outside of work (or, at least try to). It hasn’t made work any better, but it’s made me a lot happier when I’m spending time with friends and family.

      I’m glad you’re already planning on job hunting next year – you deserve better!

      (Also, 8 sicks isn’t really that much, even for someone without a chronic illness. You boss is a big time jerk.)

    12. Cube Ninja*

      If you’ve been there more than a year and qualify for FMLA, file for it! Especially in light of your boss’ ridiculous comments. If you have a chronic illness that falls under FMLA (or ADA), having that on file gives you standing to have HR “correct” his behavior if needed. If you already have FMLA or an ADA accomodation on record, now would be the time you need to involve HR.

      1. Amber Rose*

        This is Canada, so no FMLA, and we’re too small for HR. I have no recourse but to job hunt, unfortunately.

          1. Amber Rose*

            Only for federal employees. For everyone else, it’s determined by their provincial government, and as far as I can tell my province doesn’t have anything to that effect.

            1. Not In US*

              If you’re in Ontario you will now have to be given at least 10 sick days although not all of them must be paid. If you need time off for surgery you should probably look into when EI provisions kick in. They may not in your case, but I do think there are some federally mandated provision for sickness depending on the short term versus long term status.

              1. Amber Rose*

                Alberta, actually. I only need two days, short term leave is for 3-7 days. Also I’d have to submit it as an insurance claim and wait several weeks, whereas I could just suck it up and take them out of my vacation pay with much less hassle.

                1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

                  **shakes fist at Alberta**

                  I was going to say intermittent FMLA, too, before I saw the Canada issue :( Your boss is a great big jackhole, and I strongly suspect your coworkers are not as horrid as he is.

            2. Cube Ninja*

              Well, there’s the AHR Act medical leave stuff that looks like it could apply. Works a bit differently from FMLA, but…

              https://www.albertahumanrights.ab.ca/employment/employee_info/accommodation/Pages/medical_leave.aspx

              Prohibits employers from discriminating based on disability, medical conditions, etc. Doesn’t necessarily solve the whole issue, but certainly it looks like you may have standing for the “I think we’re actually not allowed to discriminate based on medical conditions” discussion.

              Of course, that assumes your boss is a reasonable and functional human, which sounds like it may not be the case here.

              1. Amber Rose*

                Yeah, but is it discrimination? He didn’t turn down my request for leave, merely pointed out that he prefers I use vacation time for it instead of sick days.

                1. Cube Ninja*

                  It probably isn’t *yet*, but the type of person who’s going to make the type of comments you’ve described also strikes me as the kind of person who’s going to drop it into an annual review or something along those lines.

                  For the record, it is intensely weird that an employer would deny the use of sick days to cover time you’re having surgery. It’s probably legal, but it’s not very smart if you want decent employees to stick around.

                2. Parenthetically*

                  But… I actually don’t understand how surgery isn’t a “sick day.” Like… you’re in the hospital? I have no advice, but this guy is an ass and this sucks and I’m sorry.

              2. Amber Rose*

                I don’t get it either, Parenthetically, except that I guess sick days are specifically for contagious stuff in his mind.

        2. Cube Ninja*

          Shame about the company size issue. :(

          Best of luck in getting yourself into a better situation soon. Also, hello from a fellow Albertan now in the US. :)

    13. Seal*

      As others have said, your boss sucks. What kind of an idiot questions your using sick time for surgery? That’s what it’s for!

      Last year I suddenly the vision in one eye due to an autoimmune issue. Fortunately, with aggressive treatment my vision came back, but since then I’ve had numerous visits to specialists as well as surgery. In looking at my records, I’ve taken 3 weeks of sick leave each of these past 2 years; that doesn’t include time I’ve made up or taken as vacation. Since this is still an ongoing issue, I expect to take more sick leave in the coming year as well. Obviously I didn’t plan this – going blind in one eye is absolutely terrifying! But no one has ever questioned my need to take care of myself or made me feel bad because I had take sick time. Quite honestly, I was so stressed by all of this that I’m sure I would have had some choice words for anyone who dared to give me a hard time about it.

      Hang in there, OP!

      1. Cinderella's Mistaken Identity*

        OMG! Did you have CSR? I’ve been dealing with that for the last year and a half.

        I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

    14. straws*

      +1 to your boss is awful. Tons of good vibes your way that you find a better job quickly in the new year.

    15. clow*

      thats awful, your boss is a jerk with no soul. First, 8 days in a year hardly counts as “people notice” and second, you are a human being not a robot, you deserve to be treated better than this. I hope your health improves and I hope you find a new job soon.

    16. MagsM*

      Ugh. All I can do is empathize, wish I had help to give.
      I’m in a similar situation, in August I had my review and got highest marks on being at work on time and energized, but since then I keep getting hit by the various bouts of disease getting passed around the library (the supervisors sent emails around telling everyone to stay out if sick to try and stop it). So this Monday their going to be meeting with me about the problem of my getting sick so much and how I can’t miss more work without possibly loosing my job. Which is just infuriating because the assistant supervisor is one of the worst at showing up and sharing his contagions ( he came in slightly sick on weds and then absolutely hacking wheezing sick on Thursday and was planning on staying most of the day so he could shout at a staff member he blames for getting him sick, I may have ended up pointing out to him he can’t blame her for it when his staying was exposing everyone else also).

    19. Cynicalrella*

      This is what I don’t get. If I take a day off for surgery, and that is a vacation day, why do the recovery days also have to be vacation days?

      And just because the surgery is scheduled, why is it a vacation day? Because it wasn’t a surprise?

      1. Amber Rose*

        Sick days are just for contagious stuff I guess. If it’s not going to spread to others, suffer at work or take a vacation.

        My bead on this is he thinks I’m lying about the surgery to get extra vacation days, but won’t just friggin ask for proof because then he wouldn’t be “cool boss.”

        2. Drew*

          Part of me wants to urge you to come back from surgery, expose the surgical wound, yell out “THERE ARE MY SICK DAYS, FLUFFERNUTTER!” and get back to work.

          I don’t listen to that part of me for practical advice, but it sure keeps me entertained.

    20. Not So NewReader*

      The only way I could focus was to tell myself to live my resume.
      This can go two ways, it helps me to think about all the things I have accomplished and it helps me to look for ideas that I could do and then later use on a resume or use at an interview. This is sort of like creating more content for your resume.
      It’s a mental shift, you are not working for this boss/company you have shifted to working for your NICE resume. It accidentally benefits the boss/company but the primary target is your own benefit. Be that sterling employee, find/do more good stuff to toss on your resume and get out of that place.

    21. sheworkshardforthemoney*

      8 sick days in one year is less than once a month. That doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. Your boss is not a nice man. Good luck with your job search:)

    22. LaterKate*

      When i read your comment the first time, i though you were saying you need to have surgery this year, and want to borrow sick time from2018, rather than using vacation time from 2017. I could sort of understand your boss making you take vacation time in that case (although either way, the rest of the comments are passive aggressive and rude), but now I’m rereading and i think your asking to take 2018 sick days for surgery you’re having in 2018? That is literally what those days are for! Surgery is a perfectly appropriate use and your boss sucks. Also, 8 days in a year doesn’t seem over the top imo.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Yeah, it’s scheduled for the middle of January. The recovery time is only supposed to be four or five days but I have to do a 24 hour post-op checkup, so I figured I’d take a Thursday/Friday for that and use the weekend for the recovery. One of the reasons I didn’t want to use vacation time was in case I need Monday off as well, which would be way more suspicious if everyone thinks I’m off having fun than if I’m up front about it all from the start.

        I didn’t think 8 days was so bad but I get so many conflicting messages it’s messing with me a bit.

    23. ten-four*

      BOO your boss sucks! You are 100% right to move on from that place. You said you don’t have time to search until the new year, but you don’t have to launch an Official Job Search. Instead, you can channel your negative feelings about your idiot boss by doing one thing every day that advances you towards your goal of getting a new job. Shoot, the first thing can be brainstorming tiny steps you can take: Send an email to a professional friend letting them know you’re thinking about going back on the market and asking if they know of anyone hiring! Draft bullet points for your resume! Read 5 job listings in your field! Go to a networking cocktail event!

      A coworker from my first “career” type job taught me this method, and it’s made a world of difference to me – particularly after I got laid off in the recession with a newborn. I loathe job searching, but treating it like a set of small, concrete actions really helps reduce my anxiety and keep me grounded. Good luck!

      1. Amber Rose*

        A position with a company I want to work for has opened in the field I want to break into, so for now I guess I’ll just apply for that. A serious job search can wait, but the occasional look at what’s there isn’t so bad. My cousin has also offered to look into stuff for me. :)

    24. Samiratou*

      Yes, your boss sucks.

      Why would you need to use vacation for surgery? That would certainly fall under acceptable sick leave around here, and we have a similar 6 days per year thing.

  3. D.W.*

    The recent thread about weird office food stories has me on high alert.

    I have signed up for our office Holiday Cook Off. The categories are broken up into meals (breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner, dessert), so I’m really at a loss of what to make. We have a few gluten intolerant individuals, so I need to make sure it’s something everyone in the office can enjoy. It would be easier if it was cake, cookies, chili, etc.

    Historically, what are some dishes or characteristics of dishes that have done well in your office cook/bake offs?

    The first rule is, “Your mom can’t make your entry.”

    2. Falling Diphthong*

      I haven’t done any bake-offs, but homemade chocolate or butterscotch pudding is a good gluten-free dessert, and all you need is a burner. (Chocolate mousse is also good, but seems like more people would go there?) Peanut-butter semifreddo was labor intensive, child was ‘eh’, spouse and I loved it. Brittle, popular for mashing and sprinkling on your semifreddo, is also gluten free.

    3. Amber Rose*

      My caesar salad always vanishes. I don’t add croutons, just leave them to the side, and I make the dressing myself without anchovy paste so anyone with seafood allergies can have some. I make the bacon bits myself too, and put them aside for people to add if they want.

      It’s not perfect, the cheese isn’t great for lactose intolerant people, but nothing is perfect.

      1. Hope*

        Romaine lettuce with bowls of the various things on the side is a wonderful idea for an office potluck.

        1. Anon non non*

          Occasionally we have meetings where food is provided. One of the restaurants we used this past year did this. A big bowl of lettuce and then smaller bowls filled with different meats (Chicken, shrimp, steak), toppings (tomato, peppers, onions, carrots, etc), cheeses, and dressings. It was the most popular lunch we had here. At first glance there was worry about there being enough food but the worry was unfounded since people picked a little bit of everything from the bowls. Most people had 2 servings of salad and there were even leftovers. It was a great place!!!!

    4. Lucky*

      Does your dish have to feed a large number of people? I would go with the breakfast or brunch category and do an egg-y caserole or for a smaller group, indvidual baked eggs in muffin tins. Look for recipes on Smitten Kitchen or Bon Appetit. Lots of ways to jazz up eggs and stay gluten free.

    5. Snorlax*

      I think chili is a great idea. I recently went to an event where someone made vegan chili, but had various sides that people could use to tailor the chili to their liking. The sides were things like ground beef, cheese, and onions. That way the vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores could all partake.

    6. Charlotte Gray*

      I brought salsa to our Thanksgiving potluck and it was a huge hit (both with the gluten-intolerant and everyone else). Chips and salsa totally counts as a meal :)

    7. Temperance*

      FWIW, if someone has celiac disease, they should probably not partake in any potlucks due to cross-contamination risk. If they just don’t eat gluten, well, that’s a whole separate thing.

      I do think it’s nice that you want to cater to everyone, but with celiac, it’s just not really feasible on the whole since it can be so risky. (My SIL has celiac.)

      1. JB (not in Houston)*

        Eh, it depends on the individual person. One of my coworkers has celiac, and several others have a wheat allergy, and they partake in potluck when the person who brought the food is someone they can trust with being careful and knowing what to avoid. I have a wheat allergy, and if that were my own allergy, I’d be willing to take a risk on some of the food with the same caveat. For other Celiacs, you’re right, it’s better for them to just avoid it.

    8. Etak*

      I’m a miserable cook, so my go to is rice krispie treats. If you feel like being a bit fancy, just drizzle something on top. I just made them with sea salt caramel on top. Minimum cooking effort and a very common favorite :)

      1. Foxtrot*

        Rice Krispies actually do have gluten, so they might work for anyone who’s jumped on the fad, but they definitely can’t be eaten by anyone with legitimate gluten issues.

          1. Awkward Interviewee*

            The brand name rice krispies have gluten because they have malt flavor which has gluten in it (I think because malt is from barley). You can sometimes find other brands that don’t have the malt flavorings, but you have to read labels carefully.

            1. OhNo*

              You can follow the same basic recipe with a gluten-free cereal, though. My friend makes amazing gluten-free chex bars using the same method as rice krispie bars. Just swap out the cereal, and it should be good to go!

              1. Specialk9*

                There are gluten free rice krispies (likely with a different name – I didn’t say rice puffs because that can be a very different thing). I’ve had gluten free rice krispy treats. Yommm!

      1. Shiara*

        Lasagna, but substituting in spaghetti squash for the noodles can also be a great gluten free option. (although not for the lactose-intolerant, obviously)

      2. Specialk9*

        My favorite gluten free noodle is Banza chick pea pasta. It comes in lots of shapes and tastes amazing. I tried a bunch of options and most were horrid – mushy, weird tasting, etc. Banza chickpea pasta is impeccable. And it has a tiny bit of protein.

    10. Lala*

      Casseroles with rice as a base are a good approach for gluten-free people. You can keep it vegetarian (broccoli cheese casserole) or dairy-free (coconut chicken curry) to give an additional subset of people another option.

    11. paul*

      Carne asada was a big hit at our last one, but my coworker ain’t sharing her recipe (I asked).

      I’m a fan of chile verde pork stew…that seems to do well

      We’ve got an Iranian coworker (recent hire) who made a great Persian dish that got demolished…uh, spinach, lamb, some sort of rice I wasn’t familiar with…I ate a ton of it, it was awesome.

      As far as allergies…I always just label what’s in mine and appreciate it when other people do the same. There’s a *ton* of food allergies out there and it woudn’t surprise me if there’s ones you don’t know about at your office.

    12. Nan*

      Homemade caramels. Gluten free, and everyone will be impressed, but they aren’t that hard, really.

      Divinity. Gluten free, it can be fussy, but it’s not hard.

      Peanut brittle or nut brittle. Bonus points if you put a layer of chocolate on the top.

      A trifle.

    15. JD*

      My mom always makes breakfast casseroles for xmas day breakfast and I thought of that. They look and taste impressive and are easy to make. Everyone always love them.

    17. notsorecentcollegegrad*

      I’m gluten free and there are so many recipes out there!
      I’m not sure how breakfast & brunch differentiate, but for either you could do a frittata or a self-serve huevos rancheros dip with corn and flour tortillas (or corn chips if you prefer).
      For lunch/dinner a lot of asian dishes easily adapt to be gluten free, just be sure to use GF soy sauce. I’m also a big fan of chicken wings, taquitos, and I’m using a crockpot buffalo chicken meatball recipe for my potluck in a couple of weeks.
      Dessert, I will always recommend cheesecake because I freaking love cheesecake and there are so many options for gluten free people. Fudge is also a very easy once to adapt and you can add in things like candy canes, nutella, and if you havethe type of office where you can do this, Baileys!

        1. Specialk9*

          And Pinterest has tonnnnnnnsssssss of gluten free recipes.

          Flourless chocolate cake or flourless fudge cookies.

          I keep meaning to try those whole cheesy spiral cut potatoes. Some call them tornado and others hasselhof potatoes.

          Indian food is a great option. Aloo gobi is delicious and easy.

          If you have an Instant Pot, make a big pot of whole fat yogurt (or bring in Brown Cow yogurt, so good), and make several flavors of fruit curd. Lemon, raspberry lime, passion fruit, pineapple. Fast, easy, and impressive. (The curd is fast, the yogurt takes overnight.)

    19. Matilda Jefferies*

      I’ve made this salad for every potluck for at least ten years, and it’s always a hit. It’s GF and vegan, and super easy to make.

      ~1 can chickpeas, drained and rinsed
      ~1 – 2 ripe avocadoes, diced
      ~2 cups shredded cabbage
      ~1/2 cup sun dried tomatoes, chopped
      ~1 – 2 green onions, chopped
      ~1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil
      ~1/2 teaspoon salt

      Directions: throw everything into a bowl, mix. :)

    20. rosiebyanyothername*

      My office has done taco potlucks a lot, so everyone brings in a taco ingredient (beans, salsa, various meats, cheese, tortillas, lettuce, etc) and everyone assembles their own taco or taco salad. We have gluten-free, dairy-free, vegetarians, etc., and it always works out, people just skip over whatever ingredient they can’t have. Yummy and people-pleasing–who doesn’t like tacos?

      1. Anon non non*

        You could also do this with a breakfast version. (Scrambled eggs, sausage, bacon, cheese, and other toppings). Breakfast tacos are my favorite meal any time of the day.

        I actually make a really yummy dish that I call Breakfast Squares. It uses broken up hashbrown patties as a crust and then is topped with eggs, cream cheese, green onion, ham or sausage, and shredded cheese. You bake it until firm and then top with tomato and more green onion. It’s so yummy and it reheats well as leftovers.

    21. HannahS*

      I like “build a taco” stations, because if you provide a non-meat protein option (like fake ground meat, or even just refried beans) then there are options to make a complete meal that’s gluten free, vegetarian, vegan, paleo, etc. It’s more preparing than cooking though, so I don’t know how much fun it is for a cook-off.

      1. Ktelzbeth*

        Lots of fake meats have gluten, so be careful if you have a gluten free vegetarian. Otherwise, this is a great choice to make lots of people happy.

    22. LadyKelvin*

      Crustless cheesecake (also if you usually put flour in the batter, use cornstarch or just omit it), pie with macadamia nut crust, serious eats has an awesome recipe for gluten-free pumpkin cupcakes. There are a surprising number of gluten-free alternatives to baking that don’t require you to spend a fortune on almond flour if you look around a bit. My coworker has Celiac’s and I love to bake, so we’ve been discussing/testing things that she can eat. (Pumpkin pie with macadamia nut crust was a huge hit a T-Day!)

      1. Anion*

        I was going to suggest cheesecake! Great idea.

        I had a friend stay with me once who had a serious gluten allergy. I made a chocolate-cherry pie, with a crust made of gluten-free graham cracker crumbs. It was a big hit, and very easy; I can dig up the exact recipe if you like, but basically (if memory serves, which I think it does) I melted two pounds of chocolate and added enough heavy cream to make a thick ganache (I think it was about 1/2 cup?), one egg, and the liquid from a jar of maraschino cherries (you could add some cherry extract as well for more flavor). Pour it into the cooled crust and let it set in the fridge, and you’re done.

        My eggs were pasteurized, btw, so there was no worry about that.

    23. TheCupcakeCounter*

      A white chicken chili is always a hit as are breakfast casseroles. Both can be made gluten free quite easily.

    24. Sled dog mama*

      I saw a great recipe for gluten free empanadas the other day that would probably be a hit.
      I bake and at old job I would always make the effort to bring something that our single vegan could enjoy and she was always so happy to be included.

    25. Newton Geizler*

      My go-to dessert for every work event ever is cake mix cookies, which can be successfully done with gluten-free cake mix (I’ve used a lot of brands and they all seem to work with this recipe, probably because it’s horrible for you and mostly made of fat). I had a co-worker with celiac in my last workplace, and the cookies were always very popular. Since everything pretty much comes straight out of a package into the bowl, it’s easier to avoid cross contamination. The general recipe is as follows:

      -1 box gluten-free cake mix
      -1 8 0z package of cream cheese, softened
      -1 stick of butter (or 1/2 cup), softened
      -1 egg
      -1 cup of add ins (chocolate chips/nuts/etc)

      Using a hand mixer, mix together the cream cheese, the butter, and the egg until the mixture is smooth. Then, slowly add in the cake mix. The batter will be very thick. If you’re having a hard time mixing in the cake mix, you can add small amounts of water until it comes together. Fold in your add ins. They bake for ~10 minutes at 375F. The final cookies have a cake texture when they’re done and stay soft and chewy for up to a week.

      My favorite combinations are Devil’s Food Cake flavored mix with white chocolate or peanut butter chips.

    26. TootTootTootsieroll*

      Chocolate Magic Cake.
      and you will want to include the raspberry or strawberry garnish dusted with sugar.

    27. Ktelzbeth*

      It’s a bad recipe for allergies in a different way, but I have a peanut butter cookie recipe that doesn’t use flour. That cookbook is packed away at the moment, but maybe the internet could help you out.

      1. BatteryB*

        1 cup peanut butter
        1 egg
        1 cup sugar (brown or white)
        1 tsp. vanilla (GF)
        Optional add-ins: butterscotch chips (my favorite, chocolate chips, chopped up candy bars, etc.)

        Mix all of the ingredients together. Roll into small balls and cross-hatch with a fork. Bake at 350 for 10 minutes.

        You can experiment with different flavored peanut butter. My sister has also made this with non-nut butters. She found a yellow pea butter at WF that works well.

    28. Buffy*

      Maybe chili? Although I’m not very familiar with all the places gluten shows up so it may be a no-go.

    29. Half-Caf Latte*

      Oprah’s killer Quinoa salad. I’m ALWAYS asked for the recipe. (Please google it, I’m mobile and links get wonky)

      Gluten free, and dairy/meat free, which makes it an attractive option for sitting out on a table for a while, as well as for vegan/vegetarian.

      Not nut free (although you could eliminate the almonds). I’ve always dressed the avocados in lots of lemon juice in the morning and never had them go brown.

      So tasty, and hearty enough to be a lunch. Roast a pork tenderloin and you’ve got dinner.

    30. H.C.*

      flourless chocolate cake or a cheesecake with a nut-based crust (I used almond/hazelnut meal); the recipes for both are more forgiving than you think

    31. AJ*

      I had good luck recently using a mix of 1 cup pillsbury gluten free flour, 1/2 cup coconut flour, and 1/2 cup almond flour in a recipe that called for 3 cups all purpose. It made the cake really soft and melt in your mouth. Sometimes you can get good deals on GF flours at TJ Maxx

    32. Aealias*

      Pulled meat is always a favourite at our potlucks.

      That said, I prefer to bake, and like sweets. The gluten-free chocolate-Quinoa cupcakes at http://www.groovyfoody.com/2012/01/17/best-chocolate-cupcakes-ever-made-with-quinoa-a-tasty-and-healthy-new-year/ are SO GOOD. They’re my go-to cupcake, and there are no gluten-sensitivities in my house or work anymore. I still run a batch by to my former co-worker with celiac when I bake em, though, cause it’s fun to share. They also gobble them up.

  4. Snorlax*

    I had an interview yesterday and found out the company is starting an unlimited PTO policy next year. It sounds great, but for those of you with unlimited PTO: do you find that people take more or fewer days off with unlimited PTO than they did when they had a specific number of PTO days allocated to them?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think it really depends on the office environment and your manager. If your manager makes it seem like people using unlimited PTO are slackers or that there’s too much to do so you can’t really take a break, then people will use less PTO than if they’d had explicit vacation days. Likewise, it helps if your manager is a good model (i.e., she actually takes long vacations, too).

      That said, I feel there’s always a danger in taking too much vacation (even if it’s theoretically “unlimited”). After a certain period of time, if it looks as if the office doesn’t need you, you may have your hours cut or your job cut completely.

      Done right, unlimited vacation time can be good, but there are lots of caveats.

      P.S. It’s very possible (probable) you won’t get paid for unused vacation time if you have “unlimited” vacation time.

      1. Snorlax*

        Fortunately, I know my potential boss and grand boss from another company and they are not vacation averse. I agree about the danger of taking “too much” vacation. Really I think I would aim for 20 days, which is what I have now. I’d be delighted not to have to decrease my vacation days at a new job.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I would ask about whether they set minimums. That is: unlimited PTO, and it doesn’t accrue (so doesn’t become a liability on their books, which I’m sure is the main reason for instituting this policy), but they expect all employees to take at least 15 days of PTO (etc.)

      The best PTO policy I’ve ever heard of was for executives at a local hospital system. I don’t actually know how much PTO they got — I just know that my friend who worked there was expected to take 8 weeks of PTO a year. 8 weeks! And her manager held her to it.

      2. Falling Diphthong*

        My favorite was that at a certain level of banking you MUST take 2 consecutive weeks off, so any illegal stuff you’re doing has the opportunity to fall apart.

        2. Ama*

          My dad is a senior executive at an accounting firm and every three years he has to take a full month’s sabbatical for just that reason.

        3. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

          My friend has this but shes in forex. She usually takes those two weeks to do a big ski marathon somewhere, but the policy also means that they are short-staffed a lot of the time.

      3. Blank*

        My employer gives all FT staff 8 weeks of leave. I’m only on a 30h/week contract, so I’ve got the equivalent of 5.5 weeks of leave.

        (Last year I didn’t know what to do with it all, but this year I’ve been approved for 3 whole weeks in late Dec/early Jan.)

    3. Tired Scientist*

      Fewer. My company has PTO days for all but the most senior people, who are “untracked”. Those people are gone basically never.

      1. ha2*

        Yeah, unlimited pto means that the appropriate amount is informal and enforced inconsistently. People tend to take not very much pto when in a situation like that.

        It’s not a huge red flag, but don’t think of it as an awesome perk either, unless you know that you personally have a strong enough personality and enough job security to make it into one.

      2. Chaordic One*

        They tend to be the kind of people who, if they do ever go on vacation, are glued to their laptops and constantly checking in by phone and skype.

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      I’ve always hated it. I think it makes people take less. It certainly made me take less the one time I worked at a company that offered it.

      1. Snorlax*

        I work in advertising, too. At my last job, we had a lot of people who used far fewer days than they were actually allocated. And the company didn’t roll over unused vacation days. It was use it or lose it. I lost a few vacation days once and vowed not to do that again.

    5. Awkwardest Turtle*

      I have a friend who works at a startup that offers unlimited PTO and she actually uses it. She’s taken multiple international trips in the last 6 months or so. But she works her butt off (late hours, weekends) when she’s not on vacation so I guess that’s the trade off.

      On another note your username made me imagine a Snorlax coming into an office with a suit and tie on to interview and it was a delightful image.

    6. yup*

      My company switched to unlimited PTO about two years ago. I thought I would hate it, but I actually love it… However, that is because my boss is amazing. I would say I take a little more, maybe going from approx. 15/ year to approx. 20/ year, but nothing too dramatic.

    7. Emotionally Neutral*

      My spouse has unlimited PTO and I do not. He takes more than me, for what it’s worth, because he can take time for things like meeting repair people, pets’ vet appointments, etc. when I can’t afford to do so.

    8. KMB213*

      At my last workplace, several of us were promoted at/around the same time, and were switched from ~20 days of PTO a year (we started out with 20, but some people had one or two more due to years of services, there were technically 10 vacation and 10 sick, but you could always use sick days as vacation days once you ran out of vacation days and vice versa, and sick days were paid out at the end of the year, whereas vacation days carried over) to unlimited PTO. The majority of us still tracked our own days and stuck with ~20 a year.

      I’ve read several articles that state that unlimited PTO policies tend to lead to fewer days off, but I think it really depends on the general culture of the workplace.

    9. Arielle*

      Fewer. Way fewer. I hated unlimited PTO because there was nothing to point at and say, “I’ve earned X amount of days and I’m taking them.” It was also super underhanded because in my state you have to pay out unused days when an employee leaves if you have days that accrue. My job now has (very) generous accrued vacation days with unlimited sick days and it’s perfect.

    10. Crylo Ren*

      It really depends on the team/manager. I worked at a place that offered unlimited PTO and certainly there were people on some teams who took full advantage of that, I knew a few people who took 4-week vacations.

      However my particular team had a strict manager that discouraged it so we actually took less time off (and even when we did, we were expected to be on-call the whole time so it wasn’t a true vacation). Also, because it was unlimited, it wasn’t paid out at the end of your tenure (I worked in California where this was normal).

      Can’t say I was a fan of the policy in general…but YMMV.

    11. Lora*

      Fewer. Everywhere I have worked that had unlimited PTO just had so many things to do. There was no end of work, I’d have to come in weekends and holidays and stuff, until HR put their foot down with management and said everyone who is owed comp time must take it off by the end of the year Or Else. One year I got the entire month of December off, because I’d had to come in for so many emergencies and weekends.

      They also really pushed flu shots and exercise and the cafeteria salad bar. They wanted to make sure you wouldn’t get anything worse than a cold.

    12. bookartist*

      Personally I take more 3-day weekends when my son is out of school; overall I think I’ll end up with taking ~ 5 days more than I had when our PTO was limited. Some folks have started taking 2-week vacations, and those of my reports who do come back much more focused and happy than those who don’t, so it makes me happy too.

    14. Zathras*

      I started this year at a company that has unlimited PTO, and the culture is definitely one where people use it. In addition to planned vacations people feel comfortable taking days off for sick kids, home repair issues, etc. There’s also plenty of flexibility to do stuff like take the morning off for a doctor’s appointment. So I suspect most people end up taking more.

      I previously worked for a university with generous PTO that accrued up to a maximum. A few of my coworkers had been there 20+ years and had the maximum vacation banked, so they would end up doing stuff like taking every Friday off in the summer just to make sure they used up all their vacation.

  5. Almost Violet Miller*

    I would like ask for your opinion on and experience with going back to academia.
    I am in my late 20s, apart from summer jobs/internships I have been working for 3 years since graduation (MA level). I have been doing really well and have had a lot of success in my 3 jobs (2ys, 3m, 1y so far) and am enthusiastic about work and our products (teapots), no matter how obscure and strange they are compared to products my friends/family work with.
    Both of my 1+yrs jobs until now have required a lot of international travel and unpaid overtime. My positions are important ones, above entry-level, where time to time I get to interact even with the C-suite of the international company I work for. The salary is also ok (compared to my yrs of experience but not the level or responsibility or time put in; but in my region/country I can consider myself very lucky).
    I have always thought of/dreamt of continuing my studies and doing a PhD but I didn’t know what career path I could have afterwards (we are talking sociology). I was also afraid of the downgrade in salary (the grant I can apply for would mean 35% less income per month and no bonus). However, there is a research topic I am passionate about (not just enthusiastic), loved the university where I would be applying and there are many other reasons for this change (huge interest in research and teaching etc.).
    I am also tired of doing my very demanding job and see no possibility of having a better work-life balance here and anywhere in my field. I have a hard time leaving work at work and the current setting (overtime, lack of global strategy in the company, lack of HR, overwhelmed boss and colleagues) doesn’t help with that either.
    Your thoughts would be more than appreciated. Did you go back to school? Did you like it or regret it? Did you regret not doing a PhD?
    Thanks!
    (There is no part-time course and I don’t have a family to support.)

    1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      I’m in a similar spot and would love to hear some insight about this.

    2. AnonStudent*

      Currently getting a PhD, also late 20s. If you are at all content in your current job (time off, salary, bosses, projects, intellectual stimulation) I’d say don’t do it. It’s been a terribly long journey here and it’s draining. If you’re in the US there’s some major tax concerns right now too (making 20k a year, under new code will be taxed as if making 65k). It’s exhausting and the pay is terrible.

      It’s rewarding in the learning, in the first time you identify something no one has seen before. You’re young, if you do want to get a PhD now is easier than later when you might have dependents (elderly family, pets, spouse etc). It’s a terminal degree, no more what if’s.

      But there’s a lot of uncertainty, what if my PI leaves this university, what if my research doesn’t work, what if i cant get this paper accepted, what if the grant doesn’t come through? Academia really doesn’t believe in time off, so the have trouble leaving work at work is now no longer a trouble, it will be expected of you. Work life balance gets pretty toxic. If you already have a masters, and you want to quit the PhD program what will you gain? Can you get a second masters in a related field?

      Long term, what jobs can you get with the extra degree that you can’t get now? What about those jobs appeals to you? Can you meet those appealing things elsewhere? Check out myidp.sciencecareers.org they have some amazing resources that can help you figure out what skills do you have, what skills do you want, what jobs intersect those categories and what do you need to get there. They are heavy on the science side of things but I found them helpful in terms of aiming toward industry or aiming toward academia decisions.

      If you do decide to go for it, make sure you connect with a PI (head researcher whose lab you want to work in) before joining the school. Make sure you can get your requirements spelled out, these classes required and when are they offered. Don’t mess around, I wasted a year because they changed the requirements on us twice and I didn’t follow the change. Talk to your bosses, one of the guys in my lab is doing his phd at night and works full time still. That’s even more exhausting but can help the cash flow problems.

      Also, definitely talk to some non burnt out people. I’m more of the exhausted student side, find someone whose made it through to the promised land of higher pay and actual office with walls. Good luck!

    3. PB*

      I work in higher ed. I have two master’s degrees and no PhD, and I have no regrets. PhD’s take a lot of time, both in terms of years to complete, and the amount of time required while you’re in classes. Unless you’re lucky enough to have your tuition fully funded, they are very expensive. (And if you’re in the United States, you might want to keep an eye on the current tax bills going through Congress. Some of the proposals would have an impact on graduate students’ taxes. At this point it isn’t clear which provisions will pass, but it is worth knowing about.)

      All of this isn’t to say that you shouldn’t go back to school. I would advise you think about what the PhD would get you first. Will you be able to get a better job in a field you want to work in? Will it be enough to account for any debt your might incur? I know you mentioned applying for a grant, but also consider what you’ll do if you don’t receive it, or if you receive funding for a year or two, but not for the full time it will take you to earn the degree.

      Good luck with your decision!

    4. fposte*

      It sounds like you’re not in the US, so I don’t know how much US-centered advice will apply, but what the heck, and it sounds like somebody else is asking who may be from the US. You have a passion for a specific research topic, which is excellent; you’re hugely interested in research and teaching, which is excellent. Many people interested in PhDs do not have those, and I really wouldn’t recommend a doctorate for somebody who doesn’t.

      What do you know about the job market right now for somebody with the specialty you’re thinking about? What do projections for it look like a few years down the line for when you’re finished? Where are the people who got that degree from that school last year and the year before? (Make sure you don’t dismiss the people who quit job-hunting–that’s usually a meaningful sign, whether they’re saying it’s because they had kids or not.) A lot of fields both in and out of the US have a PhD glut. If that’s your field, what will you do if you don’t get a job in the field, or if the only job you can get doesn’t pay very well? If all you can get is adjuncting–cobbling together a living salary by being paid per course at different institutions–is that a workable life for you, and what would you do if it isn’t?

      1. LadyKelvin*

        I was coming here to say exactly this. I love my job and I’m very happy that I got my PhD (in a math-heavy STEM). However, it is not what I started out doing. I got my master’s on a different topic (same field), saw how hard it was for my friends to get jobs with a PhD and realized that I needed to be strategic about my next move to make sure I had skills that were in demand. So I didn’t pick a topic I was passionate about it I picked a topic that I knew there was a demand for skills in. I do think what I do is really interesting and I don’t have any regrets about what I do. Most of my friends are still job searching/jumping between post-docs and I landed a full time permanent position as a research scientist for a research institute a month after I graduated. So make sure you figure out what the job prospects are when you are done and maybe tweak your topic of interest to make sure you have skills that are in demand.

    5. Another person*

      Honestly, if you are in the US I would wait and see what is happening with this tax thing and tuition waivers, because if that happens, grad school is going to majorly suck for everyone. I’ll be right on the edge of getting out, but I don’t know what people in the middle of degrees are going to do.

      Also, while I do personally enjoy my Ph.D, I don’t really know if it is a significant improvement of work-life balance (it really depends on how much overtime you were working before–for instance, it would be better than the 80 hours a week my husband is currently working). Ph.Ds are super awful for leaving work at work–I don’t really know anyone who has successfully done it. There is also the Ph.D trap–if you are in a job and it goes badly, you can leave after a couple years (and still get credit for the experience), but it is a lot harder to leave your Ph.D program before you are done even if it goes awfully, because if you do all the work that you have put into it will just disappear. Also, do you have a specific plan on what you want to do with your degree? Academia can be nice but is also insanely competitive and there are way more graduating Ph.Ds than positions. I’m not sure what field you are going into so I don’t really know what benefit the job market would see your Ph.D as.

      On the positive side, people I know who have gotten their Ph.Ds after several years of work experience do tend to do better in grad school, because they have just more experience at life (compared to people like me who come straight out of undergrad and have to figure out some of life things as well as grad school things). I think you just want to really make sure that you have a plan and goals because grad school can be just really hard on people (mentally especially)

    6. blackcat*

      PhDs take a long time, and I know very few people in academia who actually have work-life balances that I would like to have myself. No one leaves work at work. The joke is that academia is so flexible! You can work any 70 hours a week you want!

      That is actually a perk, kinda. I work from home 60-70% of the time. I often work 6am-8 or 9am, exercise mid day, lunch, head into the office. I love my work. But I am seriously considering returning to my previous career–high school teaching–when I am done. It will be about the same pay and less work than staying in academia. I do not regret my years spent in grad school, but I also have a financial cushion that most people don’t.

      -signed, current 5th year PhD student, married to a PhD holder who now works a regular person job and has far more free time than he ever did in grad school/post-doc-ing.

      P.S. Wait until this whole tax bill & tuition waiver thing gets worked out.

      P.P.S. You don’t have a family now, but in the 5-7 years it takes to complete a PhD, you may want to start one/find a partner/etc. A PhD is a long commitment, and life can change a lot in that time. One of my friends managed to get married, have a kid, and get divorced all while enrolled in a PhD program.

      1. Blank*

        Yup. Someone in my PhD year has left their academic job (a part-time adjunct teaching role) before the end of the fixed-term contract because they figured it’ll be easier to teach high school.

        Also, for the OP, if you’re in the UK, it’s possible to knock out a PhD in 3/4 years.

        1. Rainy*

          I left my PhD ABD with my diss 2/3 complete because not only was the job outlook grim for ANY job in my field, but having gotten a better look at academia, I realized I was never going to have the life I wanted even if I made it. The brass ring I was being told to reach for increasingly just doesn’t exist.

          I now work in higher ed in another capacity, and with the exception of the time I was a PI on a major federal grant and spent 20 hours a day worrying about grant stuff, I leave my work at work.

    7. sugarplum*

      I didn’t go “back” to school in the sense that you’re describing, in that there was never a point pre-PhD when I thought my education was done and then changed my mind. I did take some time off between undergrad and grad school, and worked close to full time in a career-type job while completing my MA, for several years before starting doctoral work. I intended to stay in academia and was working toward a life on the tenure track. I finished my PhD (in the social sciences) in 2014, went to an academic postdoc within a non-academic organization, and now work in a position that requires academic/research training but is a non-academic position within that same organization. I have not decided for SURE for sure, but feel unlikely to go back to academia.

      I do not regret getting my PhD. It has taken me places I wouldn’t quite have intended to go, and it was definitely a rough journey at some points, but I have no regrets. My program was extremely collegial, for the most part I was able to get what I needed, the training was good, and it was fully funded, so while the income was meager, I incurred no debt. However, you mention that you don’t have a family to support – does that mean you are unpartnered, and/or that you have no family to support you? The drop in income is no joke. The pay is legitimately terrible. If you live with roommates and are frugal, you can get by, but it is by NO MEANS comfortable. My classmates & colleagues who were genuinely single throughout grad school definitely scraped by more than those of us who had partners who could pick up some of the financial load. Also, keep in mind that a fully-funded program – for the length of the program – is EXTREMELY rare. Most people are on the hook to raise their own support after the first year or two, and that is not always easy to do.

      Also, think ahead. Two things you said stood out to me. One is going to grad school to get away from work for a while, and the other is to get better work-life balance. If you really feel strongly that you cannot do what you want to do without the PhD, do it. But it is a TERRIBLE, TRULY AWFUL time to be an early-career academic right now. ESPECIALLY in the humanities and social sciences. Jobs are scarce and many exploitative. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible, but it is really, really tough. It is a hard time to be just starting out, which has contributed to my shift away from the academy and into the private sector. Also, keep in mind that – again, especially in the humanities and social sciences – you will not recover that drop in income soon if ever. Because my post-doc was in the private sector, I was literally making more as a post-doc than some of my colleagues who just got tenure at a large R1 university. Let that sink in for a minute. At a major research university, in the social sciences, I stood to lose $10-20K a year from my private-sector income, and would not have recovered that level of income for 7-10 years. Obviously this varies by region and institution, but by and large, it takes a LOOOOOOONG time for an academic position to become as lucrative as people think they are. Finally, don’t bank on academic jobs having great work-life balance. They do tend to be VERY flexible, and people interpret that to mean they are balanced. And they can be, but more often, they are flexible because there is NO balance. So sure, you can come in whenever you want, and leave when you want, and work from home, and so on, but there is often an expectation that you are, more or less, working all the time.

      A lot of these things I knew (at least in concept) when I was young and more idealistic (and more importantly, single and childless). I am none of those things now, and I just don’t know that – for me – the phenomenal amount of work and stress it requires just to GET an academic job is justified by the reward of working yourself to death and trying to fund 96% of your own salary and working until you fall asleep every night. Your mileage may vary.

      1. Rainy*

        Yeah–the work-life balance in academia more often than not is the freedom to work 18 hours a day from whatever location you please.

        1. As Close As Breakfast*

          Or the same location at whatever time you need to be there. Sure, I could decide I was going to go run errands on a random Wednesday morning and that was pretty awesome. But I’m not sure it made up for the many, many, MANY, SO VERY FREAKING MANY times I would be running tests that had 3-4 hour intervals and I would set a test, go home, come back and switch them out, go home and go to bed, get up in the middle of the night to drive to the lab and switch out again, go back home to try and get a bit more sleep, go to work, lather, rinse, repeat. (Which may help explain the severe depression I ended up in and the ultimate decision to leave the program with only about a year of work left to do…)

    8. Simone R*

      I would suggest doing some more research on your end-it might help work things out. It seems like you’re only looking at one school, so I would suggest reaching out to people there to see what their students go on to do after graduation, what the graduation rate is, and whether or not someone who can act as your advisor is also taking students. Other people have discussed the downsides to the PhD here already, and it does seem like it could be possible for you to find a regular job that you are more passionate about that also pays less. Look for those other jobs, see what education requirements they have, and see what paths might lead you to a job you’d really like someday.

      This may be different if you’re not in the US, but here it often doesn’t help you in a phd program if you already have a masters. Many times you still have to take all the classes with everyone else, so you’d still have to spend a year or 2 doing that and then a lot of time TAing, so I would check if that holds true for you!

    9. Blank*

      I’m 2 yrs out from finishing my (arts/humanities) PhD and I’m almost starting to recover. It’s a hard slog, the job prospects are weak, and I’m one of the few in my year (and years above/below) who has found an academic job. I’ve been on rolling 6-months-or-less, part-time, fixed-term contracts since I finished up, with no security or permanence in sight. Leaving work at work is hard, and teaching eats up more linear and emotional time than you’d expect going in. If you’re looking for a good HR, solid global strategy, and a boss and colleagues who always seem on top of their work – well, don’t look for a job at my (main) university, anyway.

      It’s stressful as hell, and my awarding institution has only given me minimal support aside from some hourly-paid teaching and admin work. (But, according to friends still struggling to find something, I’m one of the lucky ones.

      On the other hand, I’ve met some great people, enjoy most of my current coworkers, have flexible working conditions and a boggling amount of leave. My role (at the moment) is weighted more towards research than teaching, which suits me. For the last year I’ve only been working for two universities AND started taking home a bit more than what my PhD stipend had been! Win!

      It sounds like you’ve got a decent work ethic and a good job history to fall back on. If you can swing the tuition and can handle the hit in salary, you stand a good chance of getting through the course unscathed, and might even enjoy yourself on the way.

      1. Bibliovore*

        I suggest reading the book Professor is In for an unvarnished look at what it means to be in Academia.
        Link in next post.

          1. Blank*

            I’ve seen her speak, and have looked through the book. OP – lots of the advice is applicable to the US market, not as much to elsewhere. YMMV!

    10. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I hate to be doom and gloom but I would consider this very carefully. Although I am glad I finished my PhD it was eight years of soul-destroying suckiness and I have been more or less unemployed ever since I finished, five years ago. Part of this is because I did not do a good job but also the job market for academics really sucks and has done since at least 2008. Of the people I know who were getting degrees around the same time as me, most of them have not gone on to a job in academia. Many of them are juggling multiple underpaid adjunct posts and struggling to make ends meet. If you can get a grant that will cover your expenses then I’d consider it, but like everyone says above, I’d wait until this tax thing is finalized because it might have huge ramifications for graduate students. I’d also try to research as much as you can about your proposed topic and job prospects for people working in that area.

      On the other hand it is quite satisfying and I am glad that I stuck it out and finished mine. It was something that I always wanted to do and I at least have that satisfaction, even if it didn’t quite work out how I hoped it would. You might have a much better time of it than I did, especially if you have developed better work habits through having a real job (which I didn’t, to be quite frank).

      If you are enthusiastic about your work field I’d consider ways that you can make it more appealing to you in the long term. A different job, training opportunities, joining a professional society where you might have the chance to do research?

      1. new_one*

        I agree with this comment.

        I have a PhD in Sociology and it has never helped me to find a job. Actually, the opposite is true. Professionally I’m several years behind the people I studied with as they didn’t waste time for PhDs. Despite my excellent results and all kind of scholarships I received in the past. And despite the fact I really learnt a lot during my PhD. And despite the fact I got excellent reviews for everything I did after my PhD.

        The sad truth is, for the huge majority of companies it’s more important that you have 8 years of experience in your CV than how good you really are.

        And I was lucky enough to find a relatively job after my PhD, there are plenty of people who weren’t so lucky.

        A PhD may make sense for science graduates, but not for social scientists.

    11. Reba*

      Not knowing your location, I think it makes a difference whether it is a European-style (straight to research) or US-ian style (coursework requirements) PhD program. If you have the passion for the project, and the university/state will pay you to do the project, and that in itself is enough for you (i.e. you’d be content pursuing a non-ac career as you are now or an academic one), I’d say go for it. If it’s going to be a 6 year long slog without enough money to live comfortably on (you say your pay is currently on the low side and it will be a lot lower!), AND you will be jumping into the academic job market at the end, think hard.

      I’m nearing the end of my US humanities fieldwork-based PhD. I don’t at all regret doing it, but if asked whether I would do it the same way again… I’m not sure. I wouldn’t really recommend others to do it, as much as I feel immensely privileged to have pursued my project and met the people I’ve met, etc. I started my studies in 2011 (MA) and I’ll be done with the PhD in June. It’s a lot of time. And it’s been easier for me than for some others I know–I have a partner in a well-paid field, I did my coursework in a low cost of living area that’s also a nice place to live, and I had a very supportive department/environment which is definitely not always the case.

      Consider whether there are other ways you can get the satisfaction of researching and teaching in your life — because even if you do the PhD there’s no guarantee that you’ll continue doing those things afterwards in a university job.

      Good luck!

    12. Roza*

      I did a PhD in a social science and fled immediately to the private sector, which I’ve enjoyed working in. I’d second the other comments about a PhD program being unlikely to provide much in the way of work-life balance. Even with deadline crunches and overtime at my current job, it’s nothing like the stress I experienced while doing a PhD. The private sector seems like magic–working weekends is the exception, not the norm?! There is no expectation that I live and breathe my work 24/7 because it is who I am?! One of the nails in the coffin of an academic career for me was having *multiple* professors tell me with pride about their nervous breakdown/destruction of first marriage/severe stress-induced health problems on the tenure track because they were *that* dedicated. Um…no.

      That said, most of the stress in grad school (assuming you are fully funded for the entire program) is self-induced. If you don’t want a career in academia, and don’t care if your professors consider you a slacker, you can set boundaries and enjoy a few years of studying interesting things, and then go back to a non-academic job. It’s a terrible decision from a financial/career-advancement perspective, but it also might be personally rewarding enough that it’s worth it for you. Think of it as akin to taking a year or two off to travel the world.

      I also second what everyone said about keeping an eye on the tax issue if you’re in the US.

      1. Don't turn this name into a hyperlink*

        I’m just curious, did you have to deal with potential employers labeling you as “overqualified” because of your PhD? This seems to be a really bad problem in North America and the UK.

    13. SophieChotek*

      I have a PhD and while it is an accomplishment of which I am proud, it took a long time, has probably hindered my job prospects outside of academia, and honestly it is not something I am sure that I would do again. To be fair, I did not go back, I went straight through, BA, MA, and PhD all in a row and at different schools. (So all I got to do was rack up 6 figures of student debt.) If you are in the U.S. I would wait to see what happens with tax laws — I mean, I hope whatever gets enacted can be overturned/revised with a new administration – but all these things take time, etc.

      That said, if you really want a PhD and love the academia and the research — I would say go for it–I also don’t want you to have regrets later. But really ask the profs (and see if you can talk to recent grads in the area) about how they see job prospects etc. and how you can use this if you don’t get a job in the research area.

    14. Gene Parmesan*

      I recently finished my PhD at age 38. I started the program in 2013, and had had a career in education prior to grad school. I am currently working in a non-academic job, in an administrative role at a college (the PhD focused on education policy, so the job is relevant to the degree). This job is research-focused and is generally considered a PhD-level position.

      I don’t regret getting the PhD, because I overall really enjoy my research, both in my degree program and at work. I am married and have young kids, and I think I maintained a pretty decent work-life balance. I am married and have young kids. In fact, I had a baby during the PhD program (I am a woman), which was challenging, but my husband is highly involved in child care tasks, and my adviser was extremely supportive.

      My caveats are to clarify to yourself and be realistic about your career goals. The academic job market is super tough. There are way more PhDs being produced than there are tenure-track faculty positions. Many PhDs take nonacademic jobs (e.g. me), by choice or necessity. For those who do go into academia, the tenure-track jobs at R1 universities are scarce, and many PhDs get jobs at less research-focused institutions. For example, the college where I work is very teaching-focused, and professors here generally have a 4-4 teaching load and their pay is not great. I would not want to work here as a professor. One blog I really like about academic jobs and other issues of academia is The Professor Is In–check it out.

      The other caveat I’ll say is don’t enter a graduate degree program if you’re paying out-of-pocket (cash flowing it or with loans). Only go to graduate school if you will get a tuition waiver and stipend. And tuitions waivers are a whole ball of uncertainty right now in the US, so keep abreast of that situation.

      1. Gene Parmesan*

        Oops, a sentence got repeated there in the second paragraph. I apologize, because I do know how to use words.

    15. Science!*

      I have my PhD in the biological sciences so my experience may be slightly different than yours would/will be. My program was based out of a school of medicine so the benefits were slightly higher stipend levels (biomedical pre-docs tend to have higher stipends because there’s a lot of grant money) and a very low teaching requirement (no TAing for undergrads, just had to TA one graduate class) and everyone was on a research stipend, with health and dental.

      This all sounds great on paper, but there is a LOT of pressure in the medical sciences for publications and cutting edge research and not getting scooped. Graduate students work crazy hours and there’s no such thing as overtime. I had no official sick or vacation days, taking time off was at the whim of my mentor (luckily mine was good but I know people who basically never took vacation and came in sick always). It is so easy to get burned out and burning out is going to happen if you don’t have a strong, clear goal for your post-doctoral life.

      Don’t think about the degree, think about what kind of job you want to have and then find people who have that job and see what degrees they have or do not have. If you think you love research, look at whether there are positions available as a research assistant. They get paid better than PhD students and you will learn whether you like doing the research. It will also give you a chance to interact with graduate students and post-docs and see how they operate and what their lives are like.

      I will also suggest that you very carefully choose a pre-doctoral advisor. Your advisor will make or break your career. All the people I know who hated their PhD had a really difficult or non-supportive advisor. Getting a PhD is as much about being trained to be an academic as it is about doing research. You want someone who is both successful in their field and also good at mentoring.

      1. Gene Parmesan*

        I agree with looking closely at potential advisers, but this is difficult to assess. My adviser had a reputation for being difficult and pushy, but I worked very well with her for over two years, and I thought it would be fine since I get along easily with almost anyone. And she was really supportive in helping me figure out my class schedule and relieving me of duties when I had just had a baby. Fast forward to the last year of my program when I was finishing my dissertation, and I’d made it clear that I wasn’t going on the career path she wanted for me. Then she became really crappy to work with and threw up some ridiculous obstacles for me to finish, and bullied my other committee members to go along with it. (As in, it instantly became a cautionary tale in my department and another department that we work closely with.) I don’t know if this story has a helpful takeaway, just try to choose a good adviser to work with.

    16. Bess*

      So it’s tough, because if you’re burned out right now on unpaid overtime, not being able to leave work at work, etc., that is only going to get 100x worse getting a PhD. Yes, your schedule is more “flexible,” but your workload is often infinite, and you make a fraction of what you’re really worth.

      This can be worth it to pursue research for some very dedicated people. I personally have trouble leaving work at work, and I have found that my advanced degrees only amplified that problem to a very unhealthy degree, compared to a professional role anywhere else. My first advanced degree I regret full stop. I don’t regret my second degree (the passion degree), but I was frankly miserable a lot of the time. Overworked and underpaid.

      It might energize you to change course a bit, pursue this thing, focus on research, and that can get you through. But it’s not a solution to these problems you mentioned above. So you’d just want to make sure it’s really worth it to you.

      The career thing is important. I knew a direct career pipeline was unlikely for my second degree, but I also didn’t get further into debt on it, so I was willing to take that exchange because I was also just ready to live in a new place and pursue something totally different for a while. (I do use my degree extensively in my current job, but I wouldn’t be considered working in “the field”).

      If you think you want to teach, it’s so competitive and underpaid, many never pursue it. So again, what you mention above about overtime, taking too much work home, won’t be solved by a teaching career. Work-life balance simply does not exist in many areas of academia.

      So if you’re motivated by the research, new pursuits, possibly new living area, etc., the other stuff can be worth it. It won’t solve your feelings of being trapped in a field with no work-life balance, though. And it’s 5+ years of very low pay–you’re sort of out of the job market during those years and not advancing when you would have professionally elsewhere. Something else to consider.

    17. Don't turn this name into a hyperlink*

      Sorry for the long rant. I’m writing this after being up for 4 hours with a stuffy nose; my apologies if this sounds cranky, as any frustration is not directed at you but rather at my sinuses :(

      This is meant to be detailed PhD program advice from a sort-of-inside position. My father had a PhD in physics and a tenured professorship. I was able to talk to my father frequently, while he was alive, about his work. I also was on a more academically- than industry-oriented track in my undergrad, although again this was physics.

      Since this draws from academic physics, and since I’m from (and live in) the U.S., this advice may not apply 100% outside these areas. But these are still points I’d strongly suggest you look into before making a firm commitment to PhD study.

      In general, I’m going to echo the comments about work-life balance. Grad students take their work home with them. IME professors aren’t as accommodating of work-life balance requests as good managers in industry, because professors also have to push themselves extremely hard to get annual funding. The work never dries up unless you retire. And that’s on top of teaching.

      As my father used to say, “40 hours a week is the *bare minimum.* To get actual results, you should be working more like 60.” He’d routinely work late into the night – like midnight or later – and get up again at 5:30. His grad students frequently worked those hours alongside him. Most of the successful academics I’ve known in STEM have a commitment to finishing something on the day that it’s started, or soon thereafter, no matter how long it takes and how exhausted you feel afterward.

      I don’t mean to sound too snarky or mean, just being honest: you can’t expect to be productive and well-regarded, especially by your advisor, if you use the 40-hour work week and enlightened work-life balance as your guide. Academia can be incredibly rewarding if you’re the academic type, but it can be incredibly draining.

      PhD student burnout, anxiety, and depression, and even suicide, is a really dirty secret. I’d strongly suggest talking to current and recent grad students in your desired area of study about these things to make sure that this path is something that won’t do more harm than good. In fact, they could tell you which schools and advisors are better from that standpoint than others.

      I’m assuming since you have an MA that you’re aware of the pitfalls of academic politics, but you should also check through whatever grapevine channels you can as to which departments have potentially toxic structures. The University of Rochester, in fact, is facing lawsuits over sexual harassment *of faculty and a grad student* in the brain and cognitive sciences department, and faculty have urged a boycott of the university. The cancer research center at the University of Hawaii is another example of a toxic entity, since its head, Michael Carbone, is regarded as an all-around SOB, has been the subject of complaints, and has *still* not been fired (to my knowledge). Arguably, academic dysfunction is more insidious than industry-related dysfunction, since at least the latter doesn’t have tenure.

      If you haven’t already visited, say, Reddit, and asked about this stuff, I’d really suggest doing so as soon as possible. Visiting prospective campuses might also help you get a sense of what things are like, especially if you can interview faculty and students. (They might not disclose any unseemly stuff, but from the standpoint of work culture and expectations, this can teach you a lot.)

      Also, specifically for the U.S.:

      Funding might be an issue in your field of interest. I know that it was in physics during the recession, when there was a lot of competition for grants. Just before my father died a year ago, he found out that he received *zero* funding for the following year, even after reaching out to very highly-placed contacts in the government. Given the budget situation for this decade, I doubt that much has changed. In fact, things might be worse with the current government.

      If you plan to stay in academia after you graduate, be aware that STEM postdocs can bounce from low-paid gig to low-paid gig and not make it into a tenure-track position for a long time afterward, if at all. You might be better-positioned to return to industry if academia doesn’t work out for you, since you’ve got some pretty good experience under your belt. But also be aware that professors may not be able to advise you on industry-related work, owing to their experience and possible biases.

      *******Also: if you’re going to work in the U.S., Canada, or the UK, make sure that a PhD won’t make you overqualified at your current or near-future experience level. This seems to be a general Anglosphere issue, although I don’t know enough about Australia and NZ to say for sure, and I don’t know about the rest of the world either.

      (These were all factors, incidentally, in my decision to switch from physics and get a Master’s in engineering, so that I could switch over to industry.)

      Lastly, about the tax bill:

      From what I’ve heard, based on talking to my father and the grad students who worked under him, a stipend is barely enough to live on, especially if you’re in a high CoL area. If those stipends get taxed, then depending on your situation, that could become catastrophic. I know that even without taxing stipends, grad students supplemented their incomes with tutoring because they were only paid half-time.

      (All the faculty knew that half-time salaries weren’t enough, but the admins didn’t listen, so…)

      I’m like you – late 20s, re0discovering interests that could best be pursued in a grad school setting. However, if I were to go through with this plan, I’d probably end up trying to get an employer to sponsor me, or, if I really wanted to do take the leap and sponsorship was not an option, try to get into another English-speaking country with a more student-friendly tax code. I have a feeling this second option would be very difficult, given that I’d need to travel and pay for rent/food/transportation until any university-provided financial benefits kick in. And I don’t know enough about the situation of international students at these places from a monetary standpoint, although I’ve heard that Oxbridge is incredibly expensive if you’re not a domestic student. This isn’t even taking into account the visa process. And I don’t know how things would work out with my existing student loans were I to do this.

      ***

      Does any of this mean that you shouldn’t go back to school? Not necessarily. But you should make sure that all requisite facts are in hand before making this decision.

      Hope this helps. Sorry again if I came off as grumpy or brusque.

      1. another person*

        I do want to make a brief comment on the stipend taxing. At least in the US, we do get taxed on our stipends–I pay federal and state income taxes on that. The current concern for many grad students is that they are now making tuition waivers taxable. So if I get paid $30,000 as my stipend (biology, which is very manageable for a single student IMO) and taxed on that $30,000, it is fine. But there is about $50,000 of tuition that is waived that they want to tax, which would mean I would get taxed on $80,000 even though I only receive $30,000 of that money.

    18. Kay*

      I finished a PhD in an allied social science field 3 years ago. I think you’ve received some good food for thought here, but I wanted to add one more thing to consider. I did manage to end up with a full-time academic job, and it was entirely by accident — I was hired as the semester-long replacement for an ill faculty member who ended up getting much worse and was unable to return, and the cash-strapped uni couldn’t get approval to do a TT search so I was hired into a permanent contracted position. I fully realize this was 100% luck, and that I have benefitted incredibly from someone else’s misfortune. None of my peers have had this “luck”.

      I was the only person in a 5-year graduation span to get such a position, and this is from a prominent university in our field. Some of the other members of my cohort have really suffered. The life of the mind is kind of a cult. These were very bright, capable people who were told for many years that the only “real” way to do our research is to be in the academy, so now all other work is undesirable to them. It’s given them tunnel vision. This hasn’t been the case for all, and some have found ways of relating their academic experience to nonprofits, but like others mentioned, they would have been better off working at the nonprofit for 5 extra years rather than do the PhD. They are meaningfully behind their peers who have been working longer, and the PhD isn’t going to leapfrom them in front of people with more practical experience – managers just don’t see the value of a PhD that way. But the number of people who have not done this, who continue to adjunct for starvation wages with the hopes of getting a TT job next cycle or who are being turned away from mid-level positions in their late 30s/early 40s because their PhD has made them overqualified, is significant. I talk with my peers frequently and truly don’t know what to tell them. I have multiple friends who left decent-but-not-perfect careers and are now trying to support families on under $20K/year, because “academia said so”.

      I think if you are considering a U.S.-style PhD, you will not find your situation improving because the issues that you list with your job are pretty ripe in academia as well, especially the work-life balance, overworked boss (PI) and colleagues (classmates and other faculty), and the lack of rules and oversight that make a workplace functional. If you do decide to go for it, pay attention to placement, advocate for yourself, and stay open to multiple paths forward and not just academia. Good luck!

    19. Almost Violet Miller*

      Thank you so much for your answers, it’s great to have the insight of such a diverse community! You’ve helped a lot with how to approach my decision.
      I haven’t made up my mind yet. I will keep you posted.
      (I also wanted to add a few things
      1) I am not in the US or the UK and I’d only enroll if I got a place with a tution waiver
      2) I mentioned being overworked because I’d much rather work this much if I am passionate about the topic and feel like I gain more than just experience (advancing at my current place or in general in our job market comes with even more overtime – think e-mailing every night till 11am and being available on weekends and holidays unofficially, some of which I am already doing because there is no other way to cope with the workload)
      3) I have a degree and experience in a more ‘practical’ science/field to which I can always come back, even if I will have the disadvantage of being away from industry for a couple of years)
      Thank you again!

      1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        As far as email goes, when I was working on my PhD late at night I’d sometimes send emails to my supervisor expecting that she’d read them the next day at 2 or 3 AM. She’d almost always reply straight away, because she was up half the night trying to cram everything into a day too!

  6. Sunflower*

    What do you do when people complain to you about your boss- and you silently agree with them?

    My boss started about 4 months ago and hasn’t gotten off to the best start with the people we support. There are a few issues going on but it’s mostly that she doesn’t understand how things flow or work in biglaw- but she doesn’t reach out to our team for guidance (I’m not sure if this is her not understanding she’s not doing this right or if it’s her trying to exert control over the team as I’ve had issues with her doing that come up). Because of this, people don’t really trust her so they end up coming to me for help or flat out telling me they don’t want to work with her. This puts me in a bad position for a few reasons- mostly because I’m not a big fan of my new boss and I do agree with a lot of the complaints that I receive about her. I think I mostly receive these complaints because I’ve worked with these people for a while and we are good ‘work friends’- we chat and hang out at work/work functions but I don’t spend time with them outside of work.

    I never know what to do- I feel like I can’t defend my boss nor agree with these folks. I mostly try to direct them upwards- like if they have an issue, they need to talk to Grand boss but most seem reluctant to officially do that. This would be ideal for me since if I do decide to talk to my grandboss about my issues with boss, it would be nice to have this backup from other people.

    1. Naruto*

      I would suggest they either talk with your boss or with her boss. Really, I’d lean hard toward the former. Escalating without raising issues with your boss first isn’t going to be a good look, so that’s where they should start. If they still have problems that aren’t going to be of the “suck it up and deal” variety (common in biglaw), then and only then should they escalate above her. (Probably; this may depend, some, on her particular position at the firm, and theirs.)

      Regardless, you don’t have the authority to make your boss change how she’s doing things, and they shouldn’t be bringing these issues to you because you’re not the right person to resolve them. So I favor your approach and would just stick with it.

    2. Temperance*

      Are you an attorney, or do you work in a different department in Biglaw? You don’t have to get too specific, but it honestly depends on what department you’re in and what function you serve, and what kind of role Grandboss has.

      I think you should chat with your GrandBoss and let him know that you’re getting a lot of complaints regarding your boss, and that you think they’re warranted.

      1. Sunflower*

        I’m not an attorney- I work in Marketing and the people complaining are other ppl within our dept who support attorneys. My grandboss is also in my dept.

        1. Temperance*

          Okay yeah, Marketing is a very critical department, and if someone isn’t fitting in, that’s important knowledge. I would mention it to your grandboss if you have a good relationship with him.

    3. Althea*

      I don’t think there is anything wrong with telling people you’ve experienced similar issues. “Yes, I’ve had trouble with not having our input solicited as well.”

      But you could also just say, “That’s frustrating. What are you going to do about it?”

      People who want to vent will usually realize they don’t plan to do anything about it at all and will just shut up about it. People who actually haven’t considered how they could solve the issue might talk with you about possible solutions, at which point you could decide if it’s something you’d want to support and help.

    4. LKW*

      Seconding the recommendation to talk to her. BigLaw is filled with direct people. They should discuss with her. If she’s at all self aware, she’ll correct. If she’s stubborn or dismissive of criticism, she’ll fail. Just do what you have to do so that you don’t get caught up in the latter.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      You can-
      Redirect them as others are saying. I like this one because I am not a dump, I am not willing to let people vent their problems day after day. I am willing to help them when they are ready to move forward. You could say, “let me know when you reach a point where you want to do something.”

      Tell them, “it is what it is” and change the subject. Parallel comment, “Yes, it seems that several people have mentioned that.” What I like about this if I get hauled into the office by this boss, all I have done is make a statement of fact that several people have mentioned it to me. This buys me time to figure out what I will actually say.

      Running concurrently you could try helping the boss in the ways the boss will let you help her. Some times we can wear down a rigid boss by building up some trust. Unfortunately we can only work on that in the areas they let us. I have had bosses who were out of their league, so any time I said anything they would jump on me. It took time to figure out where they would let me help them. I handled those things well, which encouraged the boss to let me handle a few more things. I built up a base slowly.

  7. Petra*

    I work with another co-worker, “Tanya”, who is older than me and has been training me. Tanya sometimes mentions the fact that I have my master’s degree. I *never* told Tanya about my degree- she either saw it on my resume or our manager told her. I’ve never talked about it with anyone at work either.

    If I am told to do something instead of her, Tanya gets upset and will say, “It’s probably because you have your masters.” I try to say that she has more years in the industry than I do and try to make her feel better, but I am getting a little irritated.

    Again, I never told her that I have the degree and other people in our department and the company also hold degrees, some have 2 masters or a PhD!

    I want to make Tanya feel better, but don’t know what to do. Plus, I’m getting uncomfortable with her mentioning it. What do I do?

    1. Really though.*

      Tanya is being unreasonable. Hopefully someone will come along with some scripts you can use, but you’re in your rights to shut her down whenever she brings it up necessarily.

    2. Myrin*

      I’d be very direct! Something like “You’ve brought this Masters business up a few times now. What’s up with that?” and see where it goes from there.

      1. AK*

        +1 to this, and depending on where the conversation goes you can follow it with “I don’t think any of those things have to do with my masters, but they do fit my skill set (or availability at the time, etc) and job description”

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think it’s your job to make Tanya feel better. Her comment (“It’s probably because you have your masters.”) is immature and unproductive. I’d recommend either asking her “Why did you say that?” or just ignoring it when she says things like that.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        I was going to say this. Tanya’s insecurity is not your problem to solve, Petra. Ignore her.

    4. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      It’s not your job to make her feel better, though. This is her issue. You’re not rubbing it in her face. If you report to the same person, try talking to that person.

    5. Amy*

      I don’t think it’s on you to make her feel better about it. Sounds like you’re not openly going on and on about your degree or even mentioning it at all. When she brings it up you could always just ignore the comment or say “who knows” and continue being kind and professional toward her. Ultimately she’ll probably get over it and drop it.

    6. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I want to make Tanya feel better, but don’t know what to do.

      It’s not your job to make Tanya feel better. It’s Tanya’s job to decide how to manage her jealousy/resentment/whatever about your own achievements.

      Next time she pouts that an assignment gets delegated to you instead of her, redirect her to the person in charge of delegating tasks. “I’m not sure! You should bring that up with Jim.” And then end the discussion.

      If you want to, you could try adopting a genuine tone of confusion and ask her something like, “you keep mentioning my degree. Is there something you’d like to talk about?” But I think that’s leaving you open to a discussion that again, isn’t your job to manage.

    7. Frozen Ginger*

      Have you tried just telling her to stop? No placating, just “Tanya, it makes me really uncomfortable when you bring up my degree, especially because you do so in situations where it’s not pertinent. Please stop bringing it up.”

      Also, do you know if she’s doing it to others? If she’s not, throw that in too. “I don’t know why you bring it up so much especially because many others in the department have more education than I do.”

      1. zora*

        This one. I would tell her to stop. You have more important things to do with your time and energy than manage another adult’s *feeeeelings*.

    8. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Don’t feel like you have to make Tanya feel better. I agree that you want to address it with her because that’s weird and annoying, but Tanya is responsible for managing her own feelings about it. You can ask her to stop bringing it up but don’t bend over backwards to make her feel better about herself in the process.
      (I’m having a very exhausting week avoiding emotionally managing my coworker so I may be a little sensitive to this right now).

    9. Temperance*

      Ugh. You should be proud of your degree, and screw Tanya! Does she have a degree at all?

      I am kind of a lot more aggressive than you, so I might make a sarcastic comment or just agree with her. I don’t think you should try and manager her overly sensitive feelings.

      1. Lisa*

        Same here. I think my answer would be “Yes, that’s probably it. You should go get one too!” and then every time it came up again ask her if she’s enrolled.

        1. AJ*

          The next time she says something, take out a mortarboard and framed copy of your degree and march away dutifully to complete your task.

    10. A.N.O.N.*

      “What an odd thing to bring up. I don’t see how that’s relevant.”

      “You seem to mention my master’s degree a lot. What’s up with that?”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This, this. Just ask her what is up. Some places equate years of experience as being on a par with a higher degree. You could also point out that she has the hands-on experience which is why she is training you. You have the theory and the backstory but she has the practical experience and the built up knowledge base that goes with it.

        Being a trainer is a position of trust. The company trusts her to convey necessary information to you. You can say that you do not have that position of trust, or that standing with the company.

        Or you could just break down and say, “You know you mention that a lot. And it makes me feel bad. I want you to know that I think [insert true compliments here, this could be that she knows her stuff or that she is a great trainer or whatever it is you see about her].” Let her know (if it’s true) that you are happy you met her and happy that she is training you. And you hope that at sometime in the future you will be able to “pay” her back in a meaningful way for the help she has given you.

        We are forever in debt to people who do a good job training us. We can’t take these people for granted because they are not as common as one would hope.

    11. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I’d probably be pointed about it, as that kind of whining annoys me, and say “Actually, Tanya, you’re the only one who ever mentions it!”

    12. Liane*

      Honestly, don’t worry about Making Tanya Feel Better. As Carolyn Hax (iirc) has pointed out, you don’t get to make others a feel a certain way; they are going to feel the way they feel. Just worry about shutting this down. Maybe reply, “So you keep telling me” to any comments about your degree. I suppose if she makes a lot comments about your degree getting you certain projects you could try, “Huh. Have you talked to Boss about being able to take on more tasks?”

    13. JD*

      I woudn’t worry about making her feel better because he issue is in her mind and not based on reality. I’d do the Alison take “Tanya, you mention this a lot, is there something wrong?” all while internally rolling your eyes.

    14. strawberries and raspberries*

      You don’t have to make her feel better. This is juvenile. I used to have a coworker who would constantly rib me in front of other people about things she perceived about me that weren’t always true, mostly related to (her impression of) my income level and my parents, and sometimes to my having a Master’s degree. For the things that weren’t true, I would shut it down with things like, “Wow, I didn’t realize I was rich, thanks for the heads-up,” but for things like having a Master’s degree I’d be really passive-aggressive like, “Yeah, it’s so amazing to have had the opportunity to receive a quality education, I’m really lucky.” After that, any attempt of hers to bring it up again just looked like jealousy.

    15. Reba*

      This made me laugh, as an old friend of mine used to say (in a clearly joking, over-the-top petulant tone), “I have a *Master’s Degree*!” whenever something didn’t go quite his way.

    16. The New Wanderer*

      It’s not unique to your Tanya, that’s for sure. I’ve gotten flak from a few people with master’s for having a PhD, like pointedly calling me “Doctor” (PhDs in the US don’t generally use the title unless in academia). It’s the character of the person doing it, not the degree or lack of.

      Beyond trying to care less whether Tanya is bothered, since it really isn’t your problem or anything you can fix, I would just respond to every one of her mentions with “Yep.” It sounds like she’s trolling for you to fall all over yourself praising her industry experience as more valuable than your piece of paper, and that’s just obnoxious.

    17. Rainy*

      Stop coddling her about this. Refuse to engage on it.

      She wants you to reassure her in a ritualistic fashion every time this specific topic comes up, and I would recommend that you stop doing so. When she says that next, say, one time “Tanya, I don’t think education has anything to do with this, and I need you to stop bringing up my master’s degree in this way.” Going forward, either remain silent, or say “That’s a weird thing to say” and turn the subject. Redirect, redirect, redirect. When you are no longer giving her the hit she wants (reassurance that she’s better, more experienced, smarter, whatever it is you tend to say), she will spend a small amount of time tantruming (which you will ignore) and then she will move on to someone else.

  8. AnonyMs.*

    An incident happened at work the other day that I have no idea how to handle. I heard a co-worker yelling into his phone as he walked by my office door, then he went outside to continue his phone conversation. He was right outside my office window and I could hear every word. This happens (people on their phones outside) and is mildly annoying, but I usually don’t care. However, this guy started screaming, and I could tell (from his end of the conversation) that he was talking to– literally screaming at– his son. Right outside our office door, in our office complex, close to the door of a neighboring office.

    I’m really disturbed by this. People have private conversations, even heated ones, all the time. However, the volume and vehemence made me uncomfortable on so many levels. First, I think it’s inappropriate to lose one’s temper so publicly at work, and second– and this is totally personal– I had a really hard time hearing a parent yell like that to a kid (his son is in elementary school). To add to the discomfort, this guy has an office with a door he can close, so I don’t know why he chose to have this call outside.

    I haven’t brought it up. I was too shocked at the time. What’s weird is that our boss was out that day, and I would bet this never would have happened if he had been here (his office is next to mine, also with a window). Do I say something? Wait and see if it happens again? He and I are peers; if he reported to me, I would have spoken to him immediately about office decorum and keeping a cooler head. Or maybe I’m blowing this out of proportion? I’m finding it kind of hard to face this guy, though I will probably get past that in a day or two.

    1. Justme*

      You’re not blowing this out of proportion. He was unprofessional (completely ignoring that he was yelling at his kid, because that’s another thing altogether). Maybe hint to him that you can hear telephone conversations that happen right outside your office?

      1. JulieBulie*

        Right – I imagine he went outside, thinking that people would be less likely to hear him there. Unless you think you can make some money selling tickets to the next show, you should probably let him know. You can do it in the guise of friendly advice that he wouldn’t want the boss to hear him too.

    3. Lehigh*

      Wow. Honestly I think the fact that he did it at work is a lot less of a big deal than literally screaming at a child that age. That is totally not okay, and I’d be concerned that he’s doing worse when he’s home.

      I don’t have any advice per se, but I don’t think your feelings are out of line at all.

      1. anon24*

        Yes, without knowing what exactly was said while he was screaming, I’m concerned for his child. Even if he’s not in physical danger, being screamed at constantly is so harmful for long term mental health. Again, I don’t know what exactly was said so I’m possibly blowing this way way out of proportion (and I’m sure I am!), but if this in any way made you feel like coworker was being verbally abusive and if you have any evidence that it wasn’t a one time lapse of judgement, I would consider reporting this to Child Youth Services.

        1. AnonyMs.*

          I don’t think it’s quite at that level, and I say that as someone who was verbally and emotionally abused by my father. That’s why the yelling shocked me so much, but admittedly, my radar is not well calibrated. I’m also not a parent, and I am well aware that perfectly fine parents can lose it. I have no way of knowing if he apologized to his kid later, you know?

          Certainly, if this becomes a pattern for him that I can see, I’ll speak up. But right now I feel like I only have a “right” to process the workplace part of it.

          1. Specialk9*

            I don’t think your radar is calibrated due to your past. It is really not normal to scream at a child like that (what’s fairly normal is to get an impatient tone occasionally, or even after long extended bickering or naughtiness to admonish them loudly) – screaming, and extended screaming, is whoa- that’s seriously out of control and would be terrifying to me as an adult from a stranger, so how much worse a child from his much bigger parent who has all the control. What you’ve seen is emotionally abusive, and he doesn’t seem worried about doing that in public at top volume. The question is what he is doing at home out of sight. I don’t usually say Child Protective Services, but someone needs to be checking on this kid regularly.

          2. nonymous*

            I’d check to see if your EAP group offers any brochures about family stress and put them in a public area (or even a friendly encouragement if it’s possible to supervisors to advertise the benefit), in addition to the heads up directly to co-worker. Yes, this absolutely could be a perfectly fine parent losing it, but imo even that suggests the parent could use a refresher on some coping skills.

            Also wanted to add that, since severe discipline and authoritarianism is so much less prevalent than in decades past, it really puts kids who are experiencing it at a huge disadvantage. Isolation magnifies the negative impact and the skills that a young child internalizes to survive an abusive environment are detrimental to healthy experiences in the rest of their life.

      2. Liz Lemon*

        Yeah. I was cringing and upset, thinking we were talking about a screaming 15 year old. But elementary age!?! That sounds like verbal abuse to me, and I’m not one to say that lightly.

    4. strawberries and raspberries*

      I actually had an almost-identical thing happen to me a while ago, except the person in question was an indirect report of mine. I approached him shortly thereafter to ask if everything was all right, and gently let him know that his voice carried and I would hate for anyone else to be able to hear sensitive family business of his (rather than put him on the defensive by making it sound like he was the disturbance). He was mortified. (He was even more mortified when it later turned out that the thing he was yelling at his kid about was something that turned out to be his own mistake and his kid was in the right.)

        1. strawberries and raspberries*

          He did. I’ve actually met his kids a number of times and they often have conversations like, “Don’t let me forget to go that meeting at your school-” “Dad, Mom’s already there right now. That’s why I came here.” or “Who told you you could walk there by yourself?!” “You did, Dad, yesterday!” No more yelling, though, fortunately.

    5. Ann Furthermore*

      Ack, how uncomfortable to overhear that! I like the other commenter’s way of addressing it, saying that you wouldn’t want anyone to overhear sensitive family business. It lets him know that he was overheard without being nosy or seeming like you’re accusing him of anything.

      As a parent I can tell you that sometimes you do lose it with your kids, especially if it’s due to them doing/not doing something you’ve talked to them about over and over and over again. I went over the edge with my daughter awhile back because we had talked at length about her being responsible with using technology, only to have her spend all her time watching stupid YouTube videos and not get her chores/homework done before bedtime, or “forget” to take a shower. It makes you insane, and the one-sided conversation with your kid would sound pretty bad to someone without the context. (In her case, it seems that karma evened things up a bit, because she got sick a few weeks ago and barfed all over her Chromebook, and so is now on a forced technology break until Santa comes.)

      I worked with a contractor once who would get into these horrible arguments with his wife on the phone in the office — like once or twice a week. One time they were fighting about something, and he said, “I f***ing hate you!!!” and hung up. I was appalled. Another time, he was talking to his teenage daughter, who was upset about something her mom had done, and this guy said, “Well come on, honey, we all know your mom is crazy.” A bunch of us (including him) were having lunch one day and he was being very critical of her, and told us that she’d had 4 abortions when they were younger. No matter what your personal feelings are about that, I’d hope everyone could agree that’s a very private matter, and there he was blabbing about it to people she didn’t know. I honestly didn’t understand why they were married because it was obvious that they hated each other. Yes, it’s true that I didn’t have all the context for those situations, but I can’t imagine talking to or about my husband in that way, no matter how pissed off I was at him.

    6. Windchime*

      You’re not blowing it out of proportion. Something similar happened when I brand new at my current job. A man who sits very near me (but isn’t on my team) was yelling at his daughter on the phone while sitting in his cube. He was speaking very loudly in the office which was otherwise quiet. He kept saying things like, “You’re a LIAR!”. It went on and on for a good five minutes, which is a LONG time to listen to someone be hateful on the phone.

      I couldn’t really say anything because I was brand new and he’s not on my team, but it was super uncomfortable.

  9. Nonnonnon*

    Glassdoor reviews!

    I really want to write a scathing one for my former employer, based on my #metoo and retaliation experience. However, there are of course a lot of drawbacks. Any advice?

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Is your former employer a large company? If it’s large enough you can be truly anonymous, go for it. I’ve wanted to leave reviews for some of my former workplaces, but they’re tiny, and it would be super obvious who I was.

      1. Nonnonnon*

        It’s definitely not large enough to talk about the harassment and subsequent termination without outing myself. The company has fewer than 100 employees. I could write a review on the site for the much larger parent company, but even that could be traced to me too.

      2. Nonnonnon*

        Unfortunately, there are fewer than 100 employees so I would definitely out myself. Even if I wrote one on the site for its much larger parent company, it could be traced to me.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          I’m kind of torn between totally getting and telling you to walk away– as I have convinced myself to do with a former tiny company– but on the other hand… Do you think your experience was completely unique to you? As in, do you think they learned a lesson or would be less likely to do something similar to another? If yes, then I would err on the side of anonymity, but if no, then I would encourage you to write something. I firmly believe that we must take care of ourselves before we help the greater good, but if you think what they did was egregious and likely to happen again, then I would write the warning. Think of it as an acquaintance coming to you for advice because she has a job interview coming up.

          1. Nonnonnon*

            This is a good way to look at it. I reported all this way before the avalanche of #metoo came out, which makes me wonder if they would have responded differently if the complaint was made now. However, my manager and HR smeared me in the past and I’m sure will double down on their lies just to protect their reputations.

            1. Jules the Third*

              Don’t get specific with it because they will know who you are. The damage they can do to you is not worth it. Consider an unflattering review based on less identifying factors, like “disorganization” or “unprofessional management.”

              I say this as a #MeToo too and ardent feminist / far left progressive. I’m loving the moment, but I don’t think it’s going to trickle down to small / medium businesses anytime soon, and we’re due for the backlash any day now.

            2. Specialk9*

              “my manager and HR smeared me in the past and I’m sure will double down on their lies just to protect their reputations.”

              Well… Which bridge are you burning, exactly? They’re going to talk smack about you anyway, and give a bad recommendation.

              But, if I may ask, why is Glassdoor your main option? What they did was illegal and unethical. Talk to a lawyer. At a minimum you may be able to force them not to give you a bad reference or to spread lies, and you may get a settlement and be able to get justice.

    3. Ainomiaka*

      My advice is do it, but can you make it not obviously you? I did leave a bad glassdoor review for one company, but the issues were widespread enough that I could have been anyone in a reasonably sized department.

      1. Nonnonnon*

        Unfortunately it would be hard to be vague with the situation (termination after complaining of harassment). I’ve considered more general examples of the toxicity, but I want more of the story out there! The problem is that the company will try to crush me.

            1. Ainomiaka*

              Other question is do you have a new job? You probably want a baseline of at least a year or two at another place, but after you have demonstrated that you are reasonable, trying to crush you will make the company look crazy, not you. When you are an unknown quantity it’s easier for them to try to undermine you. But if you have a track record of being dependable and reasonable everywhere else, the pattern will stand out. This is a long game, sadly, but I do think it’ll cut down on their ability to say anything.

            2. Windchime*

              Can they legally do this? I know that’s a separate question, but jeez. This doesn’t seem right at all; it’s retaliation.

    4. A.N.O.N.*

      Really review Glassdoor’s policies regarding reviews to make sure it can’t be flagged for anything. My previous employer was awful, but very often when coworkers have tried to leave negative reviews, the company would flag them as being inappropriate and they would get taken down.

        1. A.N.O.N.*

          Glassdoor will only take down posts that violate their commenting rules. Upper management at my former company would spend more time nitpicking reviews to craft arguments as to why the negative posts violate Glassdoor’s rules than actually fixing the problems employees were complaining about.

          The result? Employees rewrote their reviews, and made sure they were very careful in their wording.

    5. JulieBulie*

      Since you say they’ve already smeared you in the past, I’m not sure you have much to lose. At best, they probably won’t say anything that will help you. And it sounds like they might smear you again even if you say nothing.

      I don’t want you to get into any trouble, but do consider whether that ship has already sailed.

      2. Specialk9*

        That was my thought too.

        I was in your shoes, years ago, and it taught me that women really do have to shut up and let powerful men get away with it. But… I think that has genuinely changed, abruptly. I think you could actually get justice.

    6. Champagne_Dreams*

      You can always split the difference, and don’t tell the whole story, but pepper your review with things like “good old boys network” and “misogyny”. Women will get the message, without you outing yourself entirely.

  10. newbie here*

    What do you do when your co-workers gossip and some like to stir the pot? I don’t want to alienate myself from them, but I don’t want to get sucked into all of the drama either. Sometimes it’s funny, but other times it’s plain mean and I don’t want to be that kind of person. Any adivce?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I just go with alienation. I’m more than happy to pal around, but when things get too gossipy, I just back away. I’ll do some light gossip, but when it really is more about increasing tensions than blowing off steam, I’m out.

      1. Bleeborp*

        We luckily no longer have the worst offender at my work any more but that was my method as well. I love my workplace but there can be a little bit of a communication lag where you don’t know what’s happening unless you happen to chat up the right people and he was aaaaalllwaaaayss chatting with all the people so you really did have to gossip a little with him to know what the hell was going on. He was wildly manipulative and shady and it very much rubbed me the wrong way but he could also be really funny and I got along with him on a personal level but anytime I let something personal slip I was always kicking myself afterwards thinking “damn, I guess evvvveryone is going to know that now!” I was not sad when he left.

    2. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Become the master at redirecting the conversation! What are you doing this weekend, did you watch the football game, etc. There may be others in the group who would like a break from the negativity as well.

      1. Sunflower*

        Agree with this- esp if you can make a kind of confused ‘hmm’ face before you do it. You will get your point across and I agree that there are probably others in the group that feel the same way as you.

    4. Lumen*

      Insert sudden subject change. Do this consistently.

      Or walk away, consistently. Alienating people like this is probably in your best interest anyway; even if you stay on their good side, that’s no guarantee they aren’t going to turn on you next when your back is turned. Chances are they are already known by others in the office as the meanspirited gossips, and if people tend to see you hang out with them (even if you’re not encouraging or joining in the bad behavior), it will be hard to tell that you aren’t just like them.

      It is also okay, in my opinion, to go from laughing to “okay, that was actually kind of mean”. If they don’t like it, maybe they should behave better/watch their tongues.

    5. Windchime*

      My workplace is pretty gossip-free, or at least most people don’t gossip to me. One guy has decided that I would make a great sounding board, so he has tried bitching about our mutual boss to me. I just listened and didn’t say anything the first couple of times, but I am now prepared with what I’m going to say if/when he does it again. This is my script:

      “I can tell that this is really upsetting you, but you’re putting me in a tough position. Boss has been really good to me.” Then STOP TALKING. Hopefully that will put an end to it.

  11. Not a Real Giraffe*

    Does anyone have any tips for how to best organize work email through Gmail?

    I am coming from nearly 15 years of using Outlook, where I had a whole system set up for how to organize and track my work/emails (rules, folders, flags). My new job uses Gmail and I am having such a hard time getting used to it and applying my previous organization system to it. I feel like my inbox is untrackable and out of control!

    1. Amy*

      I’ve had a lot of lock with the labeling and starring system in Gmail. I just have different labels for all of the categories I need and they basically act like folders in Outlook. I sometimes star things that are important but more often than not I leave them unread so I remember to pay attention to them. I have my indox set up so all of my unread emails are at the top.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Some people use labels. Honestly, the only thing I do is star messages that are on my to-do list (i.e., I need to get back to them or do something with them). Otherwise, I just leave it. The Gmail search is good enough that I can find old messages I need to.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        I think where I struggle is that I like to keep my inbox as my to-do list, so in Outlook, I would move emails that were either info-only or contained a completed task into its respective folder. On a good, productive day, I could get my inbox down to fewer than 20 emails. On very, very few occasions did my inbox contain more than 100 emails. Labels for now are not cutting it for me, organizationally. But I guess maybe it’s just something I have to get used to (plus stars in place of flags)?

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Yeah, it’s a culture shift. When I used Outlook, I did the same thing. I basically had an “archived” folder, where I put all my old messages, and the ones remaining in my inbox were my to-do list. But Gmail doesn’t have a real folders concept, so even if you archive old messages or take them out of the inbox, it’s not as easy to just keep your inbox clean, because the inbox isn’t a real folder.

          1. Mints*

            You can both archive and label a message, and you can keep your inbox clean. I had this system with Gmail

        3. Mr. Rogers*

          You can move items into folders in Gmail too, and not just have them labeled! Poke around a bit, it’s there :)

          1. Amy*

            I remember being so frustrated with Gmail before I realized I could do that. It was such a huge relief when I finally figured it out.

        4. Hermione*

          I do the same thing with my inbox as an active to-do list. In Gmail, I label liberally with whatever folder the item would be, then click archive on all my done tasks to file away and get them out of my inbox. I never have much trouble finding things with the searchbar.

    3. Ashley*

      Try the additional star options. I can’t remember if it is a lab or just in settings. Also Google Keep is really helpful for to-do list stuff. Also the search features are awesome.

    4. TCO*

      I love Boomerang as a Gmail plugin. It allows you to schedule e-mails to send at a future time and it also allows you to have e-mails return to your inbox at a future time. You can choose whether you want that e-mail to return at a future time no matter what, or only if no one replies. It’s such a great tool for managing inbox chaos because it means that you don’t need to keep e-mails around that you don’t need right now, and it makes it easy to keep track of whether or not someone responded to you.

      1. Elizabeth*

        +1: boomeranggmail.com

        Boomerang is amazing. If you have confidential information in your email, don’t use it, but if you have confidential information in your email, don’t use a Google product, period.

        1. Buffy*

          I came across an interesting free tool to combat that – Blinkcloud. It takes in text, encrypts it, and you have a link to send to someone. It can only be accessed once and then it’s destroyed. (Not Mission Impossible style however ;) Good way to send confidential info if you have to over e-mail or text.

    5. Detective Amy Santiago*

      My gmail inbox is set up to add labels automatically depending on where the email is from. This works because I add filter information to my address.

      Example: my email is amysantiago@gmail.com

      For the Staples website, I use amysantiago+staples@gmail.com
      For the Llama Grooming supplies website, I use amysantiago+llama@gmail.com
      And so on and so forth. It still sends the email to my inbox because it basically ignores anything after the plus sign.

      BUT, I have filters set up so that emails sent to “amysantiago+staples” automatically have the “Staples” label added. And then my labels are all different colors.

        1. MoinMoin*

          It also ignores periods, so MoinMoin@gmail, Moin.Moin@gmail, and M…oin.M.o.i.n@gmail would all read the same as well. I didn’t know that about plus signs! That’s way easier than remembering what groups I assign to each different period configuration.

      2. LadyKelvin*

        I also have filters set up so that some of my emails skip my inbox entirely and are just filed into my folder for “IT issues” or whatever. I also use multiple inboxes (a plugin) with a box for starred emails, emails that I need to reply to, and my normal inbox. I’ve switched between outlook and gmail multiple times for various jobs and I’ve never had trouble using the same organization method in both. They are just named different things/take different steps to set up.

    6. Mints*

      I LOVE Gmail and am so sad I have to use Outlook for this job. The beauty of Gmail labels is you can cross label so you can label an email “Acme customer” and “Dark chocolate” as like a matrix so you can go look at all projects for a customer or all customers who ordered dark chocolate. Also, the rules are basically the same as Outlook so you should be able to copy the logic.
      The best thing for me though is having two labels for things I do regularly and need a lot of follow up. One is the “pending” label. So like “”Completed orders” and “Pending orders” and I check the pending label all the time to bug people, and when it’s done I move it over.
      Similarly I’d have longer term follow up labels, like “End of month” “January” for when people responded that they needed a few weeks to get back to me. (And they could still be labeled “Dark chocolate” and “Acme” without duplication.)
      I rarely rarely lost emails or had things fall off my radar

      1. Amy*

        That’s a great system. And I love the search functionality of Google more than Outlook. I felt like I could never find anything in Outlook even though I knew it was there somewhere. I’ve never had that problem in Google.

    7. Ally A*

      I love the labeling feature of Gmail, because you can label emails multiple ways, instead of picking a single folder. So if you get an email that refers to Program A and also to Person B you can label it both things. As soon as I read an email in my inbox, I immediately label it and remove it from my inbox. I manage multiple programs, so each email is labeled by the program and then further labeled (like registration, invoices, materials, etc.). I have about 23 labels and sub-labels I use. I don’t use the star feature very often, instead I have a “follow up” label that’s neon green so it’s easy to see. Then I set up as many filters as possible to skip the inbox and automatically label emails. I never have more than one or two emails in my inbox at any time.

      Also get very familiar with how to search within Gmail. You can find all of the search operators you can use in Gmail in Gmail Help.

    8. msroboto*

      You know that it is possible to read and organize GMail using Outlook.
      Google setup gmail in outlook you will find it.

    9. Troutwaxer*

      Unless your company prohibits it, you can use Mozilla Thunderbird to download your mails from Gmail onto your computer (just be sure you leave them on Gmail too, as a backup.) Then you can use Thunderbird to organize your emails, (folders are easy) and there are many extensions available for Thunderbird which you can install.

    10. bee*

      Inbox Sections is my favorite gmail organizational feature! Using this, and the archive and search functions has kept my inbox clean and actionable for the last 3 years. I had a tough transition from Outlook to gmail – I tried using it like Outlook (labels as folders, stars as flags…) but it just wan’t working for me. If you try this and don’t like it, it is easy to revert back to what you had before.

      1) Go to Settings>Inbox>Inbox Sections.
      2) Set #1 as Unread, #2 as the label Follow-up, and #3 as the label Pending Response (you can create the labels from this spot and have whatever labels work for you). This is how the inbox will be display and the sections are collapsible.
      3) When I get a new email, it sits in Unread. As soon as I read it, I either archive it, respond, or mark it as follow-up. I mostly use the pending response label from my sent items if the response might cause action on my part.
      4) When the label no longer applies, remove it and archive the message.

      You can have other labels if there are some you’d like to quickly find but don’t want to see them in your inbox (don’t set them as an inbox section). For example, I get lots of emails with various webinars and training opportunities. When I get the email, I label it Training and archive the email so it doesn’t show in my inbox anymore. Later, when I want to look through the emails, I click the Training label on my left sidebar to see all those emails.

    11. Brontosaurus*

      I use outlook at work and gmail for
      Personal and my non profit board work and I HATE it. I find it so difficult to organize and move around. I’m loving these ideas too but hope they work!

    12. Certain Someone*

      I’d love to have Gmail instead of Outlook for my work email! Once you get past the initial learning curve, I think you’ll prefer it. It’s much more intuitive and less glitchy than Outlook.
      I am also someone who uses my inbox as my “to do” list (which I think you mention down-thread), and you can move emails to folders instead of just labeling. Every label functions as a folder AND a label. The best part is that emails can have multiple labels. I keep my email folders at work very organized; oftentimes an email really belongs in more than one folder, but I still have to choose just one. With Gmail, you can apply multiple labels, so it will be easier to find it later. (For example, I might have an email that belongs in the FRAP folder and also the Regional Group folder, and when I’m looking for it later, I have to make an educated guess — or three — as to which folder I put it in, to narrow down my search. With gmail, it can be in all applicable folders simultaneously.)
      In general, the functionality of Gmail is superior, from my experience.

  12. OlympiasEpiriot*

    Tons of small tasks that all need to get done, plus I need to finish a presentation and submit for certification so ppl who come to it can get their continuing ed certs.

    Also, it occurred to me the other day that if suddenly all workplace sexual harassment stopped and I no longer had to ever think about it, dealing with it, avoid it, deflecting it, warning other women about ppl, backing up other women, etc., etc. … I could not imagine what that world would look like. I can’t imagine what it would be like to not have to think about it.

    2. Camellia*

      I hear you. I had to deal with it and hoped my daughter would not. Well, she is 32 and that hasn’t come to pass. Now my granddaughter is 6, and I wonder if we will get this right by the time she has to deal with it. I feel like that will be ‘no’ also.

      And it’s not just the older men. My daughter was interviewing candidates for an Operations Manager slot and interviewed a man who was 35 (he mentioned it, she didn’t ask). He checked all the boxes of experience that she needed and she had mentally moved him to the top of her list. Then, when she walked him out, he said, “Thanks, sweetie!”. Big nope!

      2. GG Two shoes*

        The person who groped me at the holiday party was younger than me (he was 25 and I was 27). After a couple years of “not making a big deal of it” and “just letting it go” I finally told my supervisor/HR. While the guy doesn’t work here anymore, he’s still friendly with some folks so if he ever tries to work here again, I want it in his file.

        1. OlympiasEpiriot*

          Sometimes “just letting go” is pretty much impossible. All that happens is we keep it to ourselves.

      3. Elizabeth West*

        I know this was in 2005 or 2006, but that’s still more recent than I’d like. The HR/Accounting manager (female) who hired me at OldExjob interviewed a guy for a sales position. After he left, I asked her how it went. She said he rolled his eyes when he saw her.

        He did not get the job.

        1. OlympiasEpiriot*

          That’s barely an eyeblink!

          There’s stuff going on Right Now in supposedly egalitarian environments. It was only in the 1970’s that the term Sexual Harassment was even coined.

          Glad he did not get the job

    3. nep*

      I keep thinking about the women who can’t do anything about sexual harassment and even abuse in the workplace because if they did they’d lose their job and their only means of feeding their children.

  13. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    Havarti and I got into a brief discussion about training and facilitation (on the “the person who holds the job I’m applying for doesn’t like me” post). I had to rein myself in, because I can talk about facilitation all day. So: if anyone is interested in talking more, let’s have at it!

    The conversation we had started with (what I think is) the interesting challenge of how to disagree with your co-facilitator without undermining them in front of your meeting/class/etc., and the particular importance of doing this well in cross-racial or cross-gender facilitation teams.

    2. Naptime Enthusiast*

      I was part of an organization in college where we gave partnered presentations multiple times per semester. When practicing, we had facilitators that would listen without interrupting, take notes, then at the end critique us. Sometimes, the feedback was brutal but really important to hear. We would tweak our script and presentation right there, then try again. If needed, we came back for another practice session the next day. I think this would have taken care of a lot of the issues that came up in the LW’s situation.

      Of course, you can’t always predict what questions will be asked during Q&A. What I found to be really helpful was each presenter speak to their experiences. This gives both people an opportunity to speak, and ideally the second person would be able to say “I had a completely different experience, and here’s why”, then contradict what the other person said without fully disagreeing.

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        That sounds like a great way to prep for a presentation — even without the feedback, it forces you to practice, which I think a lot of people don’t bother with.

        It’s a little different if you’re facilitating a conversation, rather than giving a presentation. In my work, even when we’re training for skills or knowledge, we spend very little time in front of the room speaking from a script (we have a practice of never having a presenter speak for more than 10 minutes without breaking that time up with active learning). Almost everything we do is based on what’s happening in the room, the ideas that the participants bring, the level of experience or knowledge that they have, etc.

    3. fposte*

      So how do you disagree with your co-facilitator without undermining them? That’s the kind of thing it’s always useful to have some scripts for. I’ve co-taught in situations with long relationships where it’s fine to just be open about a different ideological approach, but 1) that would be different with somebody I didn’t know and 2) the example in that post wasn’t just a different point of view but a need for action. So whaddya do?

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        Two reactions quickly:

        First, talk about it with your colleague beforehand. Plan out how you want to handle various scenarios, like: What if I strongly disagree with something you say? What if I say something that’s objectively wrong (a wrong date, etc.)? What if I just have an idea or example that I think would help illustrate something you’re saying?

        Second, tell your participants how you and the co-facilitator plan to work together. You don’t need to cover all the possible scenarios, but I often say something like: “Sarina and I have worked together for a long time, and we developed this training together. You might notice that we jump in and share ideas — or even corrections! — when the other is speaking. That’s our style of working together, and we think it helps make the best use of your time.”

        If, instead, you’re going to stick with a more formal breakdown of who speaks when on an agenda you could say: “Sarina and I bring different experiences and lenses to this topic, and that means that we sometimes have different ideas — that’s why we’re teaching this session together, so you can come at this topic from more than one direction. So don’t be surprised if you hear us offer different interpretations and feel free to ask for clarification throughout our day together.”

        It’s also legit in most cases, I think, to decide not to correct each other in public. You could instead let your co-facilitator know privately during a break that they misspoke, or that you disagreed with what they said, and ask them to make a correction. Or, if there isn’t that opportunity, you could send a follow-up clarification: “During the session, we said that the new fiscal year begins in January. That was a mistake — our fiscal year runs from July to June.”

        And, of course, it’s important to make all of these decisions with attention to power and oppressive dynamics. Like: If my co-facilitator is giving her first training, is it more important to correct her immediately (so she doesn’t lead participants astray due to her inexperience), or should I wait to correct her in private (so she isn’t undermined in front of the people she needs to continue to teach?). If I am a white man, and my co-facilitator is a woman of color, how will my interruptions of her read to our participants (even if we agreed ahead of time that we prefer a free-flowing style)? etc.

        2. The RO-Cat*

          I co-facilitate more often than not. Nowadays I have strong relationships with my colleagues and we go along almost without the need for words. Still, it happens sometimes for me to disagree with a certain approach. I have a system of appraising the need to intervene (or the lack of need) and phrasings as follows:
          – marginal topic, slight disagreement – I let it slide or we talk after the course
          – marginal topic, great differences – we do talk it out later
          – important topic, marginal disagreement – let it go and maybe talk later
          – important topic, big diference due to different viewpoints / experiences – I intervene when timing allows it and present it as a different approach for the participants to choose from
          – important topic, big mistake (it happens sometimes) – I wait for a good moment, I present the correct version / approach as an alternative / more useful way to look at the topic and signal my co-facilitator to join me at the first break.

          At he beginning I had to step in hard a couple of times, but it was – in all cases – because my colleague was unexperienced and got cornered (stirred up the us-vs-them mindset and couldn’t cope with the sudden revolt), but as we got to know each other and she got more seasoned things began going smoothly more and more.

  14. WellRed*

    I know you aren’t supposed to ask for a raise because you need it, but what about a cost of living increase? For context, I haven’t had a raise of any sort in six years. Biz is hanging in there but we’re a tiny company that has downsized a bit. My workload has remained steady. Of course, any increase would be so tiny as to almost not be worth it to ask.

    1. EmilyG*

      I think this is reasonable! What makes people roll their eyes is when someone says “I bought an expensive car and now I need a raise.” (Well, maybe no one is actually that brazen, but you know what I mean.)

      1. HRperson*

        People are that brazen. I fielded a “I need a raise because I got a more expensive day care” request last week.

        2. Jules the Third*

          That’s not brazen, daycare can be really really really crazy. In the US, rates are going up as fast as college tuition, faster than medical inflation and something like 10x as fast as general inflation. Going from home-based care for a 2yo to center-based care for a 3yo can double the cost, easily.

          2. Data Analyst*

            Yes. It may not be the most tactful but since the reality is often “I can’t afford to send my kid there, and if I can’t afford it I will need to quit” it makes sense to me to be open about it.

        3. tigerlily*

          Yeah, day care is outrageously expensive. You may very well be correct that they chose to go to a fancier, more prestigious, more expensive one on their own, but knowing the absolutely horror that is finding quality, affordable childcare in my city, that wouldn’t be my first thought.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      If you haven’t had any raise of any sort (even cost-of-living) in six years, then you definitely should ask for a raise. You’re actually losing money, because cost of living has increased, but your salary hasn’t.

      1. Specialk9*

        There are good inflation calculators by year. I like the WestEgg one.

        So let’s say you made $50,000 starting 6 years ago (salary chosen for ease of calculation). What cost $50,000 in 2010 would cost $56,558 in 2016.

        But even worse, $50k on today’s dollars is only $44k in 2010 dollars! They’ve actually taken $6 thousand out of you’re pocket this year. So guesstimating that $1k lost in 2011, $2k in 2012, $3k in 2013, $4k in 2014, $5k in 2015, $6 k in 2016.

        You’ve lost $21 thousand over only 6 years because of them not giving an inflation adjustment.

    3. Jessie the First (or second)*

      6 years without any adjustment? That’s not okay, and I think you should seriously consider asking for an actual raise because you have earned it.

      You wouldn’t be asking for a raise because you need it. You’d be asking for a raise because you have 6 years more experience than you did when you were first offered this salary! 6 years of experience getting to know the ins and outs of the business, the industry, the needs and processes your company values. 6 years to be become really adept at your job. And after 6 years with no raise, that is a de facto pay cut because cost of living has increased. So you are providing more value to the company than you did 6 years ago, but the money you earn does not reflect that value.

    4. Natalie*

      COLA’s are completely different than raises because, as was mentioned, with inflation you are making *less* money every year. In my humble opinion, companies that don’t do inflation adjustment without being asked are jerks, just the same as if they expected their employees to take paycuts every year for no reason.

      $1 in 2011 is about $1.12 now, just for reference. (Using the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator.)

    5. KJDubreuil*

      What is the pay range for people doing your job in your industry? If you are at the bottom of that, start looking for a new job but at the same time you can think about talking to your current employer about your pay.

      As in, ask for a meeting. At the scheduled meeting ask your employer if there are any additional responsibilities you could take on. Ask if they are perfectly satisfied with your performance. Ask what you could do to become a more valuable employee to them. If they say you are great, offer you additional responsibilities or say that they highly value as an employee then and ONLY THEN, point out that you are at the bottom of the pay range for people doing your job in your industry and say things like “I think I am currently more valuable to the company than my current pay reflects” and “people doing my job in this industry make $XX to YY an hour and I have been here six years without a pay increase and am only making $XX ” and “I’d love to train to become a Teapot Inspector. Once I was certified in that would there be a pay increase associated with it?”

      DON’T walk into your boss’s office and blurt out “Can you give me a raise? ” or worse “I need a raise or I will have to quit this job.” That will annoy them and alienate them. Maybe they are currently thinking about firing you for tardiness, poor client contact skills or laying you off because of decreased business or many other reasons. Instead, be tactful, request a scheduled meeting (but be ready if they say ‘right now would be fine’) and try to show them how you can help pay for yourself.

      I am a boss(owner of small business) and I routinely raise prices to my customers to enable pay raises for my staff. I also give only merit raises (based on productivity and job performance) and am much more likely to raise the pay of someone who consistently makes my days easier instead of harder. Source of unnecessary drama and stress? No raise for you because I am actually hoping you will move on, but am not really needing to fire you over it.

      1. Natalie*

        You seem to be talking about an increase based on performance, but WellRed is asking about a simple adjustment for inflation. They’re not the same thing, and an employee shouldn’t have to get certifications or take on additional tasks simply to keep making the same amount of money as they were before.

        1. Chocolate Teapot*

          I happen to be lucky. Where I live there are regular inflation checks, and once it increases by a certain amount (usually annually) everyone gets a small payrise. Is there some kind of similar check you could use? (economic data, basket of goods survey etc.)

  15. WG*

    My employer is undergoing downsizing and offering incentives for people to voluntarily leave. I’m a bit later in my career, but not anywhere near close enough to being able to retire. My boss has implied my job is safe if I want to stay, but there are no guarantees.

    I’m torn about whether to stay, which had been my plan all along – to stay here until retirement. Or should I explore other opportunities while I still have 15 or more years until retirement?

    Are there others who’ve switched careers or industries that have advice? What things should I be considering in making a decision?

    1. Sunflower*

      You should 100% be looking at other opportunities even if you don’t take them.

      I would put a ton of weight in your bosses last point- there are no guarantees. And that doesn’t matter if your company is downsizing or expanding or if you’re 25 days or 25 years on the job. 15 years is a long time and anything can change in that time frame. This is just one event of downsizing- it doesn’t mean more are definitely to come but it’s probably not a great sign either.

      Do you have to switch industries or careers to switch positions? I’m not sure how much time you have to decide but there is no cost to exploring what else is out there. I’d strongly encourage you to see what else is out there before you make the decisions to stay or go.

      1. WG*

        Unfortunately, there’s a short window for the incentive to leave. But I think you’re right that I should be looking. Because if the incentives don’t generate enough interest, the next step is probably layoffs.

        1. Jerry Vandesic*

          How good is the incentive? It it large enough to cover more time than you would likely be able to stay in a job that is at risk? For example, if they are offering 3 months of severance, but you would likely not lose you job in another layoff for 6 months, then it would be best to stay, and start looking immediately for a new job. You are better off having a job when searching for a new one, especially if you are an older worker.

    2. Phlox*

      One thing to consider, depending on how many folks are leaving, is what impact the smaller team will have on your work flow and team culture. Are enough senior employees leaving that institutional knowledge will be impacted?

    3. Marley*

      I would definitely start looking for other jobs, to see what’s out there.

      How generous are the incentives? Could it fund essentially a sabbatical while you look for another job?

      1. WG*

        The incentives aren’t overly generous. It would only support a short gap before I’d need to have steady employment again.

        1. Hermione*

          You might also want to be careful to figure out if you would be one of those who would be offered an incentive. If your job is one that wouldn’t be eliminated – that is, essential enough that they would need to replace you – perhaps you wouldn’t be offered an incentive and then would be effectively outing your own job search?

    4. Slippy*

      If you can switch jobs without changing careers or industries you may want to start looking. With downsizing there is generally downward pressure on wages and raises; on the other hand going to a new company means that you need to start accruing vacation all over again. You should look at the overall health of your current organization and determine if the organization is downsizing to trim excess people/functions or if company is in financial trouble. If they are in financial trouble you want to be one of the first ones out the door.

    5. Where's the Le-Toose?*

      I have two comments in one–the first from my wife’s perspective and one from my own.

      For my wife, she had an experience similar to this 2 years ago. She was working for a Fortune 500 company that was downsizing. They offered incentives and not enough people took those offers. Even though her boss said her job wasn’t in jeopardy, when it came time for layoffs, they started targeting a lot of highly compensated employees. Since my wife was making more than others in her job class (because of 20 years experience), they let her go notwithstanding the comments from her boss.

      At first she was really upset by this. But she did get a severance package and the early layoff became a benefit because with the layoffs 9 months after my wife’s layoff, there was no severance package. All people got was their last check and an empty box to clean out their office. So she made out in the end.

      My wife’s advice is that in the private sector, the first round of layoffs may not be the only round of layoffs, and she feels you should start looking.

      As for me, I’m also in a similar position to you, but without the pending layoffs. I’m a managing attorney for a public sector agency, and I plan on retiring in another 16 years. While I love my job, I am looking for different opportunities, but still as a lawyer. (Side note–if I had to give up law, I’d work at Trader Joe’s or run a forklift at Costco). For me the biggest consideration is salary. I’m finding that if I want to stay in the public sector, my options are really limited unless I’m willing to take a pay cut, which we can’t afford. But my job is really secure, so I can afford to be more picky. The other issues I’m considering are the mission of the agency (e.g. looking at government positions where we are helping the general public), work-life balance, and commute.

      Best of luck to you WG. And please let us know how things go for you!

  16. Solaire*

    I need help with asking for ADA accommodations.

    Here’s the story: I’ve been in regular treatment for years for a psychological condition I have. Outwardly it’s invisible – I don’t have an inhaler, walk with a cane, or anything similar.

    A couple of jobs ago, I requested accommodations for the condition. My boss at that job didn’t like HR telling him how to treat me, and ignored the accommodations I got and filled my personnel file with fake write-ups. He was considered a rock star, so HR let him bully me out of that company. Since then I’ve been afraid of going through the accommodations process.

    Now I’m in a new job. Recently my disability has been getting in the way of work. A few days ago, my boss sent a “come to Jesus” email to me saying he wanted to see significant changes now, with no excuses.

    After that I realized I can’t put off talking to HR about accommodations again. I sent them an email asking to begin the process. No reply (this is a recurring problem with our HR). I sent them another one the next day with “formal request for ADA accommodations” in the title. They didn’t reply to that one, either.

    I can’t approach HR in person because they’re in a different county than I am and it’d be a 2 hour trip to get there. And I’m nervous about calling them because I don’t want anyone else in the office to find out that I have this problem. I’m afraid people would think I’m an entitled millennial trying to get out of working.

    What should I do? I’m thinking of telling my boss, because HR tends to respond very quickly once he’s involved. On the other hand, he said “no excuses” … but ADA is a law, not an excuse.

    Please help. I’m losing sleep and worried I’ll be fired.

    1. Florida*

      I have requested accommodations once at work (several times in college). I have epilepsy and couldn’t drive because of it. Our office had multiple local sites. I was primarily at one site, but occasionally had meetings at another.
      In my case, I told my boss very early on that I can’t drive right now because I have seizures. I can arrive at whatever location he wants me at in the morning. Ideally, I could stay there all day, but if not, the reasonable accommodations I would need is for someone to drive me to the new site. Sometimes he would schedule a meeting, and I would always say, “Any chance we can meet at this location. Otherwise, I’ll need the company to accommodate my disability.” Usually they would change the meeting location, unless I could ride with another person going to the meeting. They never had someone specifically drive me there (although, they would have had to, if was necessary)

      It doesn’t bother me to tell people I have epilepsy, but don’t feel like you have to explain your specific situation. I spoke directly to my boss. He was understanding, so HR never got involved. In retrospect though, it might have been smart to include them on emails just to cover my butt. I liberally used the words “disability” and “reasonable accommodation”. Sometimes I phrase it as “ADA accommodation”. I also approached it as if it was going to happen. This was not a request that would be helpful of convenient. This was a request that the company is required to do.

      1. Solaire*

        I’m autistic. I left that out of the original comment because it’s stigmatized, but I was diagnosed as a child and I see a therapist regularly to practice CBT so I can learn to handle myself better in social situations. The negative stigma around autism spectrum disorders is one reason I’m very nervous about calling HR.

        I’ve learned from the past and am trying to politely but firmly assert the rights I have.

        1. cryptid*

          I have really really struggled to get accommodations – I’m also autistic. Bosses and HR have mostly ignored me when I ask. idk how to fix it, but I wish you luck.

    2. AngelicGamer aka that visually impaired peep*

      Is it possible for your doctor to write out a note for you to take to your boss? That way, it’s less excuses and more that it is a recognized medical condition, at least in how he spelled it out in the email. Also, I’d be clear in saying “this is not excusing my behavior. This is so I can work better for you and I apologize for not bringing it up before as I thought I could handle it”. Good luck and (((Hugs))) as I hope it helps.

      1. Solaire*

        My boss has said he wants to see certain things right now, and my next appointment isn’t for two weeks. December is a bad time to try and schedule a medical appointment.

        My therapist and doctor have spoken to HR at old jobs for accommodation purposes in the past. I think including that I’m willing to put HR in touch with the medical professionals I work with would be a show of good faith, at least.

        1. Temperance*

          I would prepare a list of accommodations that will help you before reaching out to your boss. Proactively show him how you can do your job and meet his requirements with X, Y, and Z supports.

          1. Solaire*

            Because I’m autistic and that has a negative perception problem, I worry a lot about confiding my condition in someone. But I don’t think there’s much of a choice here.

            1. On The Other Side*

              If it helps, I’m autistic and my boss/co-workers think it is awesome. I’m in tech, so they assume I’m a savant wizard of all coding and logic things. They cut me some slack when I don’t catch social cues, and they challenge me to come up with new tech solutions that they wouldn’t ask of anyone else. It was actually cool to come out of the spectrum closet.

              1. Solaire*

                Thank you. This was very relieving to read. I’m also a software engineer, and when I can spend most of my working hours on that, I do great. I can basically hold an entire medium large scale system (100KLOC) in my head.

                Outside of work, I’m much more relaxed and aware of social cues. But when I’m on the clock I feel a constant mental pressure to not make any mistakes, not sound stupid, anything like that. Someone stopping by my desk to ask me for something can be a blur for me: I shut down, and I can’t remember any of it.

                If this sounds like anxiety, you’re right. I’m also in treatment for that.

            2. Someone else*

              I don’t know if this makes you feel at all better, and I realize everyone is different so your circumstance may not play out as mine have, but I’ve found the stigma about autism to be significantly less than stigma about mental illnesses in general. Regardless of which one is the reason for your need for accommodation, as both are entirely valid, anecdotally I’d expect less flak from a less-than-decent employer learning about an autism diagnosis. In an ideal world they’d not be a jerk about either way if you’re asking for an accommodation.

              1. Solaire*

                Thanks. Unfortunately, you’re right. I have some close friends who are bipolar and they’ve gotten a lot of flak for it.

                My hesitation to “come out” to my boss and ask for accommodations is part the cultural perception of ASD, part my previous experience with it, part my boss saying “no excuses”. Asking for legally required accommodations for a disorder is totally different from making an excuse, but there’s a lot of nuance and perception stuff there that I have a lot of trouble with.

            3. Specialk9*

              I think that telling people you’re autistic can actually make them much more inclined to cut you slack on things. I’d include a mini-tutorial on what that means for you, since it’s a gigantic spectrum with wide variety – eg “I’m on the autism spectrum, so that means that I need you to tell me things directly instead of hinting or communicating with body language, because my brain isn’t able to read those signals. I also sometimes tend to fidget, and find big groups stressful. But I’ve been dealing with this for a long time and have strategies that work, so let me know if there’s a problem and I can fix it.”

    3. Rex*

      Have you tried to call HR yet? That would be my next step. After 2-3 calls with no response, then I would be looping in my boss. Are you in the US?

      1. Solaire*

        I am in the US, and my company falls under ADA requirements.

        After reading the comments here I’ve decided that I should email my boss and be very clear that it’s not an excuse for previous performance, but a desire to do better. I have some trepidation about that because of my past experiences, but Natalie’s post convinced me I need to go for it.

    4. Temperance*

      Solitaire, I think you should call from a conference room, if you can, for privacy.

      I also think it might be a good idea to have a chat with your psychiatrist and ask him or her for suggestions on how to work with your issues.

    5. Bibliovore*

      There is a lot going on here. I am not a lawyer but I do have ADA accommodations.
      First thing- HR is not your friend, not your advocate, and not there to help the person with the disabilities. They are there to make sure that the employer is complying with employment law and not going to get sued.

      Second- put everything in writing.

      Accommodations are about enabling you to do your job. Are there reasonable accommodations that would do that? Depends on the job. If a receptionist has to sit at a front desk and be there on time every day at 8:00 am sharp, even if she needs an accommodation due to a disorder that prevents her from arriving to work on time, the accommodation is not a reasonable one and yes, she can be fired.

      A person in my position sometimes has to lift heavy boxes. I am unable to lift more than 5 lbs. The accommodation is that I ask for help and someone else lifts, carries, shelves boxes. It is a small part of my job and not essential and this is a reasonable accommodation.

      You can google to get the ADA compliant language that fits your situation.

      1. Solaire*

        I’m autistic. I didn’t include that in the original post because there’s a lot of stigma around ASD and I try to avoid it.

        Unfortunately, I’m familiar with everything you said re: HR. I have personal copies (BCC’d) of my emails which all have titles like “Formal Request For Accommodations Under The Americans With Disabilities Act.”

        Because I have difficulty with prioritizing and speaking in social situations, I am asking for things like all deadlines in writing ASAP. My bad boss refused to do that because he was too busy. My current boss seems more reasonable, but I’m very anxious about telling him because of his “no excuses” line.

        Since this isn’t my first rodeo, I’m trying to cover my bases. So I’ve decided to email my boss and tell him that I’ve requested accommodations from HR. It will look much different if I’m let go immediately after I ask my boss for accommodations than if he never hears about it.

        1. Bibliovore*

          Okay this makes sense.
          First things first.
          Look at your job description.
          Note the things you are doing well- that is meeting expectations.
          Note the things that your supervisor has a concern about.
          For example- are you not completing assigned tasks in a timely manner?
          Note in writing that you own up to this.
          In the same email note how you will succeed in meeting this expectation. Create a plan.
          For example- you supervisor passes by your desk, talks a mile-a-minute assigning Task A. You are now already working on task B. and C. and are unsure of the priorities.
          Immediately send an email describing the new assignment, the time it will take to complete. Confirm the competing tasks for your time and their due dates.
          Suggest a completion time- like Friday end-of-day if one isn’t assigned.
          Communicate if you are not going to complete by that time.

          If the accommodation you need is to have all your assignments in writing and your supervisor is incapable of doing that, how can you work around this?

          I did have an employee with this need. I did put every assignment in writing and asked for an email back confirming an understanding of task and due dates.

          1. Jules the Third*

            I really like these suggestions – they:
            1) Demonstrate that you recognize your boss’s concerns
            2) Show that you *want* to work on them
            3) Give a constructive path on how you can improve

            In the end, your boss wants the performance. A good boss will help you get it. Your other boss was an awful boss.

            As for the stigma around autism, yes, it’s real, but it’s not universal. A growing number of people have family with autism, and are becoming more aware of how it works – the challenges and benefits of neurodiversity. (Background: My kid has autism; I test with a lot of autistic traits but not enough for them to diagnose an adult woman; I’m totally with you on the CBT for my OCD) I have been pleasantly surprised the two times I disclosed my OCD at work – I met with a lot of sympathy. I’ve even been able to trade tips with a co-worker whose daughter has OCD. I still don’t go around sharing it widely – your experience is too all too possible.

          2. Solaire*

            Thank you very much. This is almost exactly what I need.

            To be honest, I’ve tried doing that, but most of the time I don’t get a reply…

    6. Natalie*

      Maybe it helps to remember that, from what you’ve written here, your *worst case* scenario is not bringing this up to your boss. If that happens, it sounds like it’s pretty much settled that your performance will continue to suffer and you will risk being let go. If you don’t mention it, it sounds like there is a quite low chance of a positive outcome.

      Bringing it up with your boss, on the other hand, has some risk of the same outcome as saying nothing. But it has a much higher chance of a positive outcome than saying nothing does.

      Your mental health doctor is also a good resource to help you get this figured out.

      1. Solaire*

        Thank you. You laid the situation out clearly for me.

        I think that in the worst case, that would go like:

        1. I send him an email saying “Boss, I am autistic and I have reached out to HR about accommodations for my condition. Please let me know if you have any questions about this and I’ll do my best to answer them”
        2. He sees the email as an excuse or back talk and refuses/fires me/etc.

        There’s a pretty clear paper trail.

        This could go a lot of different ways, but I think that telling him (and saving the email!) will only help. Again, thank you.

        1. Natalie*

          Other people are better at wording than me, but one thing I would add is to make it more clear that the accommodations you’re requesting are directly related to the performance concerns he has raised.

          1. Solaire*

            Yes, absolutely. One thing I’m going to add is “because of my ASD, I have trouble with processing information in face to face conversations, which is a cause of the issue you brought up” or something very similar to that.

        2. XK*

          I’d also suggest, just on your end, to really think about what accommodations you need, and how they would enable you to do your job well. As a manager, the part that I would find frustrating would be to learn that you knew you needed certain accommodations to do your job, but did not ask – thereby causing serious problems. (I’m assuming serious since it’s gotten to the breaking point) I’m not asking what you need, as that is not important for us here, but I think if mentally you can line up “If A, then B” you will be better positioned to talk with HR/your boss.

          1. Bibliovore*

            Now reading this. I emphasize as a supervisor for you to be specific about what accommodations that you need to be a success at this position. If you don’t know perhaps there is a someone in employee assistance who can make suggestions.

            I had an employee once whose therapist requested that I provide the employee with more creative work as the repetitious work that the department needed to get done and was part of her job description triggered anxiety. Yes, this became an HR thing. No we could not accommodate her.

            1. Solaire*

              My requests for accommodations qre much more concrete than the example of being more creative.

              They include advance notice for face to face or phone meetings (5 minutes is fine), and all deadlines in writing.

              What is frustrating to me is that I have literal months worth of unanswered emails asking for deadlines and a project roadmap, but management is now telling me they don’t want to hear about that.

              1. Academic Library Specialist*

                I do sympathize with your frustration but I see how this might be the problem. I will respond as a supervisor.
                “What is frustrating to me is that I have literal months worth of unanswered emails asking for deadlines and a project roadmap, but management is now telling me they don’t want to hear about that.”
                I see from further down
                The accommodations I’m asking for are:
                1. Advance notice of all face to face meetings or calls by email. 5-10 minutes would be enough.
                I would not be able to do this. Given my own schedule and responsibilities, I am would find this an unreasonable request. I am not going to be able to stop in the middle of a train of thought, write and email a notice to you for every interaction.
                2. “Assignments with deadlines in email. I can provide this myself but in that case I’ll need some confirmation from them; just replying “That’s right,” or “please do this other thing first” is enough. ” I think this is reasonable but if you supervisor is not giving you deadlines or feedback, if you put the project plan and deadlines in writing and meet those expectations, at least if it comes up in a one-on-one you can point to the non-response as a confirmation of right action.
                3. Change of seating. Right now I sit in a windowless area that also is very high traffic, and all of that gives me a lot of background stress.
                Is there another area in the office that would work better? Are you discomforting someone else with this request? Have you tried headphones or some other solution.

                Advice for a when interviewing- always ask to be shown where that position would be working .

                1. Solaire*

                  if you supervisor is not giving you deadlines or feedback, if you put the project plan and deadlines in writing and meet those expectations, at least if it comes up in a one-on-one you can point to the non-response as a confirmation of right action.

                  This is what I attempted to do with my boss before, but he didn’t want to hear it. I don’t know if that’s something which should be brought to HR: that he’s saying I didn’t do X when I have it in writing that I did and he never responded.

                  I think that trying to “debate” my performance with him would go worse than asking for accommodations for a disorder which the law says I’m allowed to ask for.

                  Is there another area in the office that would work better? Are you discomforting someone else with this request? Have you tried headphones or some other solution.

                  We have open seats in a different area. Part of the problem is that right now, I sit far away from my team. I sit next to another team. The other team has lots of people coming to talk to them, and those people mistake me for being on that team. If I’m wearing headphones they’ll tap me on the shoulder which makes me very uncomfortable.

                  Advice for a when interviewing- always ask to be shown where that position would be working .

                  I did, but by the time I started there there were no free cubicles left in that area. A few months later, there’s unused cubicles back by where I was shown.

        3. OhNo*

          It would probably be good to include in this email a request to meet with him and discuss it, since he’s undoubtedly going to want more information and assurance that your performance will improve. That meeting would be the best place to tie the accommodations you’re requesting directly to the performance issues he’s worried about. I’m picturing something like this:

          “Boss, I’m really taking your concerns about my performance in X and Y seriously, which is why I’m requesting these accommodations now. I didn’t want to/don’t like to share my disability status, but I realized that the best way for me to meet your expectations consistently is with these adjustments to the workflow: (list of accommodations).”

          1. Not So NewReader*

            I like this a lot. It shows a plan to build a path out of the issues the boss has raised.

          2. Solaire*

            This is very good. I’ll be sending him something very similar to this when I get into work on Monday morning. Thank you!

        4. Half-Caf Latte*

          I’m not an HR/ADA expert, but I’d encourage you to change your wording in #1. To me, it reads as “I’ve asked HR for accommodations, not you, but I’ll tell you only if you ask.”

          While you are not wrong in engaging HR for ADA accommodations, from reading your other comments it seems as though the accommodations you’re asking for are things that need to come directly from boss.

          If I were the boss in this scenario, I’d be miffed that my employee went to HR to request accommodations, but wasn’t up front with me about what those accomodations were (in a way that made clear that they were accommodations vs. employee trying to push her preferred work style), even though they directly impacted me.

          1. Solaire*

            Oh no… I sent off an email pretty similar to what I wrote out.

            How can I recover from it? What I thought to do was send out the requests and the reasoning (like, “I would request that assignments and their deadlines be sent to me in email, because I have trouble with understanding things like tone of voice due to my ASD”), but I really don’t understand a boss’ mindset.

            1. Half-Caf Latte*

              So what stuck in my craw was the “please ask me if you have any questions”.

              Of course boss is going to have questions – in order to give you the accommodations, boss needs to understand what they are. This isn’t like you’ve asked for a special chair for a bad back, you’re asking for boss to change the way they interact with you.

              If you didn’t specify what the acoomodations are, boss is left to speculate whether it is something immensely burdensome/expensive/whatever.

              “Please ask IF you have questions” makes me feel you think that boss shouldn’t have questions, or that it’s not up to you to communicate your specific needs. This needs to be a two-way dialogue, not an email.

              OhNo gave you a nice script above, which I think you could incorporate into a follow up.

              If you did lay out the accommodations- follow up by saying “I realized I’d actually like to meet about this to make sure we are on the same page.”

              If you didn’t address the accommodations, I’d say that you realized you neglected to include them,
              Briefly explain what they are and how they’ll address the performance concerns, and request a meeting.

              Don’t worry, your initial email wasn’t awful sounding but I want you to set up the most positive working relationship you can!

              1. Solaire*

                I see exactly what you mean. I’m uncomfortable even describing myself as autistic and wanted to end the “conversation” as soon as possible… but my boss is not a mind reader. Thanks!

    7. Thursday Next*

      A small point alongside the great suggestions offered here—would it help to approach it as a neurological, rather than a psychological, condition (which is how you describe it in your original post)? Framing it this way can shape the discussion of accommodations differently. Sadly, people are all over the map in their view of psychological conditions, while they may translate as “mental illness” (which shouldn’t be stigmatized, but often is).

      Advocate for yourself matter-of-factly—you are legally entitled to these accommodations, which you’re seeking in order to better your work performance. I think as several posters suggested, it’s really helpful to approach situations like this with an of-course-we-are-all-on-the-same-page attitude.

      My son is HFA, and I think a lot about how to help him advocate for himself as he gets older. Sending good wishes your way!

    8. Solaire*

      Here’s an update.

      HR finally replied, yesterday afternoon. The entire reply was “I’ll look into it sometime.” That isn’t very relieving but I have personal copies of all the emails. So in the worst case where they never handle the request and I get fired, it’ll help me with getting unemployment.

      I emailed my boss, but he didn’t reply either. I didn’t see him in the office today, but he did reply to other emails, so I’m not sure what’s going on. He could need a bit to process it or it could be something worse. I’m trying not to assume anything though, but I’m pretty stressed out by this, as evidenced by me posting about it on Saturday morning. Either way on Monday I’m going to email a list of accommodations and offer to meet with him face to face when he has time.

      The accommodations I’m asking for are:
      1. Advance notice of all face to face meetings or calls by email. 5-10 minutes would be enough.
      2. Assignments with deadlines in email. I can provide this myself but in that case I’ll need some confirmation from them; just replying “That’s right,” or “please do this other thing first” is enough.
      3. Change of seating. Right now I sit in a windowless area that also is very high traffic, and all of that gives me a lot of background stress.

      I know that however it goes, I can handle it. And at future jobs I’ll be more proactive about requesting accommodations, within the first month.

  17. Murphy*

    I had a baby this year. Her daycare took cute pictures, so my husband and I had them made into Christmas cards. They only let you order in batches of 25, so we ended up ordering way more than we need. Would it be weird to give some to a few co-workers (leaving aside that they’re explicitly Christmas)? It’s just a photo of my daughter, and it’s signed “The Warbleworth Family. Fergus, Murphy, Daughter, Dog 1, and Dog 2.” FWIW, we have friendly small talk about kids and stuff all the time.

    1. Erin*

      First of all I’m jealous because we got Santa photos that you could order in batches of 25 or 50 – we went with 25, ended up needing like 30, so I scanned one and ordered more from Shutterfly, and they’re just a bit fuzzy. So a few people are getting subpar cards. Lucky you you have extra!

      Anywho, I’d advise against this. I’m planning on giving my coworkers cards, but no kid pictures. I don’t think it would be a crazy faux pas, but I’m worried it might be a tiny bit presumptuous or weird. My coworkers like to see pictures of my baby, but I feel like they probably don’t need to actually have one.

    2. KL*

      I think it depends on your office. Most people in my office give each other Christmas cards, including the personalized noes like yours, but it’s not required. To us, it’s not weird.

    3. Temperance*

      I would love to receive a card like that. Do it! Seriously, a former coworker gave me a card LAST YEAR with an extremely cute dog photo, and it’s still up.

    4. marymoocow*

      I wouldn’t recommend giving them to coworkers, particularly since they also carry the awkwardness element of being tied to a specific religious holiday, unless you know that each one would be receptive. But there are lots of cute things you can do with the leftover pictures. You could frame them, turn them into Christmas ornaments, save one with all the cards your daughter receives and turn it into a “baby’s first Christmas” album, and more. And that’s just for Christmas. If you want to think long term, you can put them into a photo album that shows your daughter growing over the years (take a similar picture every year!) and give them to your daughter when she graduates.

    6. Lemon Zinger*

      What is your relationship like with your coworkers? Do they know and like your baby? If not, I think it would be a little odd.

    7. zora*

      If you have a few coworkers you are friendly with and talk to about non-work things occasionally, go for it!!! People love getting cute kid photos, and even though I am not Christian, I wouldn’t be offended or anything, I would think it was just a nice friendly co-worker thing.

      However, I did have a kind of weird thing this year. One of my coworkers who works in another city sent her family Christmas photo card to Every. Single. Employee. It was mailed to my home address. I have maybe emailed with her a dozen times since I started working here, and we spoke in person for about 5 minutes at a company meeting one time.

      I felt like that was a little odd and over the top because I have never had one personal conversation with her ever. And it’s not like everyone in the company does it, hers is the only one I’ve received. So, I wouldn’t just indiscriminately pass them out to everyone just because you have extras. I think it’s appropriate for people you have had a couple of conversations with and feel friendly with.

    10. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

      I think it would be a bit odd, but you could give one to the people you are closest to. I’d try to come up with some cute craft things for the extras myself.

      This reminds me of my high school graduation photos. My uncle was a professional photographer so he did the pictures. My aunt got some kind of deal and decided to order 100 copies of the wallet sized photos. I did not know 100 people who would want a photo of me. I thought it would be funny to turn them into a deck of playing cards but I never got around to it.

  18. 42*

    Hi everyone –

    Here’s something I never understood regarding exempt, salaried positions (which I am): The law states that if you work any part of a week, you need to be paid for the full week. If an exempt employee runs out of PTO (sick and vacation) and they get sick again and need to take time off, how does that work?

    This is not happening to me or anyone I know; but a hypothetical that I’ve always wondered about but never remember to ask here. Online searches don’t make it any clearer to me.

    Thanks, happy Friday!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      The law states that if you work any part of a week, you need to be paid for the full week.

      I’m assuming this is for where you live, because I don’t believe this is universal.

      If an exempt employee runs out of PTO (sick and vacation) and they get sick again and need to take time off, how does that work?

      That said, I actually got hit with a bout of sickness once at a job that was fairly strict with the rules, and I just had to come in when sick, because I’d used up all my sick days. It was kind of ridiculous.

      1. Natalie*

        I’m assuming this is for where you live, because I don’t believe this is universal.

        It’s universal within the United States, as its part of the FLSA. However, there are some common exceptions:

        – first or last week of work, if it is a partial week
        – unpaid suspensions
        – full day absence for personal reason other than sicknesss
        – full day absence for sickness if the company has a “bona fide” sick plan

    2. Tired Scientist*

      When I first started at my current job (salaried exempt), the company had a shutdown week a few months after my first day. I hadn’t accumulated enough PTO for the whole week, and HR was unsure what to do with me. I ended up taking some days unpaid, which was fine with me, but I got the sense that HR wasn’t sure that was ok.

      1. Natalie*

        If the company was closed for an entire week, they were perfectly fine – you only have to pay exempt employees for weeks in which they do some work, so if you did no work that week you weren’t required to be paid. There’s no federal law governing PTO, so they can charge all of it or none of it or some of it to whatever extent they want.

    3. Jessie the First (or second)*

      Exempt employees can be made to take unpaid sick days without losing exempt status, if they run out of PTO and it’s consistent with the company’s policies.

      What an employer cannot do is dock pay for an employee who, for example, shows up 30 minutes late on a workday. And an employer who tells an exempt worker to stay home for a day because (for example) the company thinks it doesn’t happen to have work for the employee to do that day cannot dock the employee’s pay for that employer-mandated absence.

      1. Jessie the First (or second)*

        And by consistent with policies, I mean – if the company offers a real paid sick leave program, the company can allow exempt employees to take unpaid days off once they have exhausted their sick leave. (According to federal law, anyway – some states have broader sick leave rules).

      2. 42*

        >>Exempt employees can be made to take unpaid sick days without losing exempt status,<<

        But isn't that contradictory with having to be paid for the entire week if they worked part of the week?

        1. Natalie*

          The deduction is allowed “if the deduction is made in accordance with a bona fide plan, policy or practice of providing compensation for salary lost due to illness”.

          1. 42*

            What would be an example of that? I’m not trying to be dense, I promise – just trying to understand it.

            1. Natalie*

              Typically your standard sick time policy that you find in the handbook. As long as their is some kind of standardized plan to provide some amount of compensation for sick time, that’s a policy. Once the person runs out of sick time, you can deduct for any full day absences.

              But if you were a small business and gave your employees zero PTO, you would not be able to make any deductions for illness until the person had been out for a full week.

            2. Jessie the First (or second)*

              42, the DOL has said that it means a company offers specific paid sick leave, tells its employees about the benefit, administers it fairly, and it isn’t designed specifically to avoid the rules on paying exempt employees on a salary basis.

              So basically, does the company provide a certain number of sick days to people upon hire (or after some initial waiting period)? Are the days generally standard across the whole company (allowing for differences in, for example, elgibility/waiting periods)?
              If so, that’s a bona fide plan.

    4. KJDubreuil*

      You can’t work 30 minutes every Monday or Friday morning and be paid for the whole week for weeks on end. You are either out sick or back at work. However if you work Monday and Tuesday but are out sick the rest of the week you would get a week’s pay. The employer can require you ‘not’ to come back to work until you are well enough to expect to be able to stay at work all week. This is a very gray area, because even exempt employees cannot expect to have ‘unlimited paid sick days’ unless their employer offers that. As an employer I struggle with this because the way the law is written (in my state that is the law) and the practical application of it are quite far apart in my business. I think the law is intended to protect employees that are ready, able and willing to work but whose employer has told them not to come in for business (financial or logistical) reasons.

      1. 42*

        >>You can’t work 30 minutes every Monday or Friday morning and be paid for the whole week for weeks on end<<

        Of course, and that's not the nature of my question.

        Here's the gist: If you work Mon, Tues, And Wed, and then get sick on Thurs and Fri, but you're out of PTO, how does THAT work, if you're salaried and exempt and must get paid for the whole week?

        1. CAA*

          For your specific example, there are a couple of choices:
          1) The company can require you to borrow PTO from the future and keep a negative balance on the books. If you leave the job before earning back the borrowed PTO, then some states (e.g. California) will not allow them to deduct the advanced vacation pay from your final paycheck.
          2) If the company has a bona fide sick plan (as described above) and you’ve used up all your allotted sick days, then they can decide not to pay you for the Thursday and Friday.

  19. Nervous Accountant*

    I had a super weird/interesting conversation. All I can do is SMH bc I don’t know what else to do here.

    My mgr gave me feedback from our boss that I’m super negative. He doesnt think I am and I have a good attitude and relayed that to her but she says that since I report to him of course I’ll be good in front of him.

    (isnt that what I’m supposed to do? behave well in front of the ppl I report to ???)

    She pointed out that I talk too much to someone else and she thinks that person is very negative*.

    I’m not negative but geeee, you think i’m stupid and don’t deserve to be paid fairly and you constantly berate my team, maybe I do have every reason to be negative? (I’m not) -___-

    It’s ridiculous. There’s so much favoritism that it’s ugly. someone can be extremely unprofessional** (we’re a relaxed office but….still), and everyone lets it slide or laughs it off. There are people who do absolutely nothing and actually complained about being bored, and they’re not swamped with more work to do like the rest of us.

    (* FWIW though, I’ve realized that person is pretty negative so I’ve lessened contact lol but how is it any of her biz who I’m friends with?!)
    ** this is a totally sad, unrelated story that I wanted to share here.

    1. Jesca*

      Yes. You definitely can be judged by those you choose to hang around. It does suck, but its not terribly uncommon for people to do it. This is especially true if that person making the assumption doesn’t have regular contact with you. I would just take this as a heads up that the bosses boss is actually watching more than you may realize.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I get that (begrudgingly) birds of a feather and all.

        I’m confused by “of course she behaved well in front of you”… isn’t that what I’m supposed to do?

        1. WellRed*

          Well, you are supposed to be well behaved at work, period. Not just in front of your boss. So, either she’s implying that when the boss’s back is turned, you’re not behaving well. Or, you’re actually behaving badly and she’s noticed.

          1. Jesca*

            Yes this is exactly my read as well. Like a “Oh course she isn’t going to show that side to you or myself! But, it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening” kind of thing.

    2. Jessie the First (or second)*

      “I’m not negative but geeee, you think i’m stupid and don’t deserve to be paid fairly and you constantly berate my team, maybe I do have every reason to be negative? (I’m not) “….. “There’s so much favoritism that it’s ugly. someone can be extremely unprofessional** (we’re a relaxed office but….still), and everyone lets it slide or laughs it off. There are people who do absolutely nothing and actually complained about being bored, and they’re not swamped with more work to do like the rest of us.”…

      I mean, you sound in this post like you absolutely hate the place you work, and so perhaps your poker face about that isn’t as good as you think it is, and that’s really what your boss is picking up on? That’s something to consider. If you don’t want to appear negative, be aware how much your angry feelings about your employer are showing through. Might be more than you think. Your friend who is negative – I suppose that could be a real boundary violation by the employer to notice, care, and try to police who you hang out with, or it could be a reasonable heads-up – that depends on the specifics of that coworker (like, is the coworker a gossip who is a little negative, or is the coworker a toxic explosion of negativity causing trouble? And are you seen talking a *lot* at work, or just normal friendliness?)

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        I don’t hate it, well not all of it. I enjoy the work itself and (most of) my coworkers. There are a few things about this place I don’t enjoy. I was simply venting bc I’m frustrated about this conversation but otherwise I have mostly good days and get good feedback.

        And that person, yeah we were close. It’s been a while since we spoke though and I picked up on that a while back about the negativity. It irked me that she was berating my whole team along with me. *shrugs*

    3. Helpful*

      Well, it can be helpful to know how you’re perceived. You can work on being perceived as more positive. That might help. It might be true and your manager doesn’t want to have an awkward conversation, or it might be true only in certain interactions. To me, it’s notable you think you (only?) need to behave well to the people you report to; does that mean you don’t feel that same obligation with others? If not, that could be subtly influencing others’ perception.

      If nothing else, fake a positive attitude while you work on the job hunt.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        No I didn’t mean that I can act badly in front of others, that’s absolutely not at all what I meant. I’m pretty relaxed around my manager and I’m the same way in front of others.

        1. NW Mossy*

          “Relaxed” can be a double-edged sword at work, especially in an environment like yours where there’s a lot of office politics. Just because your direct colleagues/boss have earned enough of your trust to get your candor doesn’t mean that those who haven’t can’t still hear what you’ve said in less guarded moments.

          One of the things that’s helped me step in it less often was to make a game of phrasing my comments in a way that is both truthful but scrupulously professional, as if I were a BBC commentator. There’s a certain power in being able to express yourself that way, and with practice, it buys you a lot of freedom to raise issues without worrying that you’re going to be ridden out of town on a rail.

          1. SignalLost*

            I love playing that game. I can be incredibly critical of something in a way most people don’t catch fully. It’s hard to explain in a way, but it’s like … imagine you’re being sued and you have to say something critical of the person suing you but you don’t want to add anything to the suit. So instead of calling someone a neat freak, you point out that they’re overly detail-oriented. Anyone who listens understands what you said, but you said nothing that would be perceived as negative by most people.

      2. Jennifer*

        I have gotten in trouble for being too negative. I literally had to stop talking all day in my office to combat that. (Of course, it’s fine for my coworkers who reported me to talk whatever shit they like….sometimes my mind boggles at the shit said. But for them it’s fine!)
        If anyone’s complaining about you, you’re way better off not talking!

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          Yeah, it’s tough. I actually love talking to my most of my coworkers and I hate having to be so careful. Sucks doesn’t it? I don’t feel like I can be quiet. Having to be quiet. Just triggers some bad times I went through in my personal life.

    4. Nervous Accountant*

      Seriously, am I not allowed to have a negative feeling and vent about it on here without being told that I AM performing badly at work or behaving badly around others ? I thought ppl were allowed to vent their frustrations here.

      1. CAA*

        Since this is an advice board you should probably expect that the default responses when you post here will be from people giving you advice. That’s pretty much what we all want and expect to do when we’re reading here. If you want us all to do something else, it’ll probably go better if you say something explicit like “I’m just venting, no advice needed”.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          My bad, my initial draft had “I’m venting” in it but I edited it a few times. I ask for advice many times here and take it too! but sometimes I want to vent some frustrations without being told I actually AM doing the bad things I’m being accused of venting about

      2. Bibliovore*

        yes, this is a place to vent. The weird vibe of your vent is what caught people’s attention.
        A person is called on the carpet for having a bad attitude and hanging out with others who have a similar affect.
        The person complains about being reprimanded but displays the language of a bad attitude in the complaint.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          Idk. I guess it’s hard for me to really convey a lot of things when I’m typing from my phone since I can’t access this site from my computer. I’m working throughout the day so I just don’t have a lot of time to pick and choose my words super carefully. I thought nitpicking On someone’s word choice or tone was against the site rules and honestly I’m feeling that this is happening.

          1. TL -*

            Hmm. You’re clearly not happy at this job and you’ve complained a lot about it here. Your boss does sound pretty bad but I think there’s a good chance you’re coming off more negative than you realize, at least from the sum of your posts here.
            We’re not nitpicking language or tone, we’re pointing out that actually you have lots of issues with your workplace and that kind of thing tends to show.

      3. Panda Bandit*

        Vent away! It sounds like the boss who complained about you doesn’t really have a leg to stand on. She needs to give concrete examples, because right now it looks like she’s decided to pick on you middle-school style. It’s good that your manager stood up for you.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          Thank you! That’s what I said too-that she’s grasping at straws. She also told him that I had a long conversation wth her about how unhappy I was and upset about things here and that’s absolutely NOT true. Again I never have any interaction with her, and he knows and sees this as well so he was taken aback at that accusation

      4. Jessie the First (or second)*

        Of course you can vent.

        I don’t see people here saying “you are bad at your job and behaving badly.” I mean, I said maybe your feelings are more visible than you intend them to be – that’s not you behaving badly or being bad at your job, that’s just the reality of how our emotions work a lot of the time, you know? And NW Mossy is just pointing out that “relaxed” atmosphere can sometimes lead to trouble in environments with lots of office politics. And WellRed was just laying out the different options for why your manager said that. Basically, this is just…advice, based on the limited info we have.

        Vent away. I don’t see how these comments are really critical of you. You’re in a job where there are some difficult issues.

  20. Q*

    So I have my first office Christmas-thing on Monday. It’s a potluck. What do people who can’t cook bring to potlucks? Cookies and chips are already claimed (Also, I moved this weekend, so I don’t even have anything to cook with!)!

    It’s also a white elephant and I can’t bring a gift card, but I guess I’ll…find something when a friend wants to go Christmas shopping with me this weekend.

    1. JoAnna*

      if you have a crockpot, bring hot apple cider! if you want some extra pizzazz, add some mulling spices.

      2. Bored IT Guy*

        Or if you can’t afford the good cheddar and pricey crackers, cheez whiz and a sleeve of Ritz crackers? :)

      4. Havarti*

        Yes! Trader Joe’s has this cracker trio in garlic, rosemary, and chili flavors that I adore. I have to get some for gifts I’m assembling (and for myself!)

      3. Paquita*

        I’m late reading this but I took a bag of clementines to my sister’s house for Thanksgiving. Gave one to everybody to take home. They thought it was a good idea!

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I made this comment above– sort of– but personally, I love dip of all kinds. It doesn’t have to be fancy. I love to cook and I’m pretty good at it, but I still think a party isn’t a party without onion dip. Homemade onion dip is ok, but if you were my co-worker and brought in the kind made with a pint of sour cream and some Lipton mix and a bag of really good potato chips, I would be very happy.

      On the dip theme… Tex-Mex layer dip is really easy and no-cook, too. A can of refried beans, a jar of salsa, some sour cream, shredded cheese, store-bought guac. Delicious. (Usually there are seven layers and it’s called “Seven Layer Dip”, but the layers I listed are the only ones I want.)

      Nice hummus and a tray of crudite would also be welcome. Check out the prepared foods case of your local supermarket for other dips. Even Costco makes a really awesome spinach and artichoke dip. I could seriously eat nothing but dip and be very happy.

      1. Cathy*

        I make a fabulous dip called Mexican Mess. You make it in the microwave so you can make it fresh for the potluck! No cooking skills required – just opening cans and unwrapping cheese.
        Put an 8 ounce package of cream cheese in a 9×9 square pan and nuke it until it’s spreadable. Smooth it over the bottom of the dish.
        Dump a can of chili with no beans on top and spread it evenly.
        Add a bag of shredded cheese. Microwave until cheese melts.
        Serve with a sturdy chip like Fritos scoops – the dip is fairly heavy!

        2. Parenthetically*

          My mouth is watering. I would eat that forever.

          Similar dip requiring only minimal cooking is a package jimmy dean sausage (browned), a box of velveeta, and can of ro-tel in a crockpot, with similarly sturdy chips. It’s… insane. Like I can feel my arteries clogging but just do not care.

    6. Libby*

      Check the prepared food section in your grocery store for things like pot pies, casseroles, or salads. Or maybe volunteer to bring drinks, like apple cider or egg nog.

    7. Q*

      I wonder if something like a container of peanut brittle might work? I don’t think anyone’s allergic to nuts.

    8. paul*

      If I don’t have time/don’t feel like cooking I’m big on veggie/fruit trays. I don’t get premade ones most of the time (too pricey, tend to be crappy selection and quality). Cut up a mix of bell peppers, get some strawberries and grapes, cucumber, whatever’s seasonal.

      If your budget allows cheese trays are nice but holy crap that’s expensive.

    9. Lisa B*

      Rice Krispie treats. Someone mentioned them above and they’re always a hit! Plus, ahem, you can buy them pre-made if you REALLY can’t cook, then unwrap them, put them on a pretty plate, and cover with aluminum foil. Not that I have ever done that. Nope.

      1. Q*

        Last time I made rice krispie treats, I burned the marshmallows and they came out brown, if that’s an indication.

        (although really, I don’t have a casserole dish or anything to make them in).

        But that’s a good idea, too!

    10. Tired Scientist*

      The deli at the grocery is your friend. Get a large container of whatever you choose, and put it in your own bowl. Nobody needs to know where it came from.

      For the white elephant, “local” stuff is always a hit. My grocery has a section of local foods, like jam, salsa, honey, etc. Depending on the budget, you could make a little basket of locally-produced food.

    11. Marley*

      Buy or make a fruit bowl or veggie tray.

      When you’re at the grocery store, buy some really nice coffee or chocolate for your white elephant gift.

      1. fposte*

        Pro tip: always give a bought veggie tray a good sniff. I have been burned by lethal broccoli a few times.

        1. OhNo*

          Seconded. Twice in the past year, I’ve bought veggie trays for events and had everything be a-okay except the broccoli, which probably could have been used as a biological weapon.

          Buying bags of pre-cut veggies and arranging them yourself can sometimes be a safer option, if the age of the veggie tray is suspect.

    12. DCGirl*

      I bring a tabouleh salad that is constructed as follows:

      1. Buy a box of Near East brand tabouleh
      2. Follow the directions on the box (which involve adding boiling water and the spice packet) and then sticking it in the refrigerator
      3. After it’s chilled, stir in a a diced tomato, a tablespoon of lemon juice, and a tablespoon of olive oil
      4. Chill some more, then add a package of feta cheese

      My husband’s boss requests this for his office potluck every year.

        1. Turkletina*

          I’m picturing someone making a very nice tabbouleh salad and then just leaving a full block of feta on the top.

          1. OhNo*

            “Behold! My (in)famous deconstructed tabbouleh salad. It’s a bowl of uncooked tabbouleh with a block of feta and a whole tomato balanced on top.”

            1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

              As long as you stick a plastic fork in it I don’t see the problem.

    13. Ms. Meow*

      Check with the people who are organizing it. Our Admins who do most of the grunt work for parties gladly take cash for incidentals (plates, cups, napkins, condiments, etc) if you can’t and/or don’t want to bring food in.

    14. [insert witty user name here]*

      You may not even be set up enough to do this, but potentially. This is my go-to for potlucks and people LOOOOVVVEEE them: veggie pizzas.

      Roll out two tubes of crescent rolls into a baking sheet (you could do a disposable aluminum one) and press the seams together to form the base. Bake until lightly golden brown, usually a couple minutes less than the directions (since they are rolled out, not rolled up). Mix together one 8 oz brick of cream cheese, one cup of mayo, and one packet of dry ranch dressing mix. Spread over the cooled crescent roll base. Top with the following (you can usually get these pre-cut at most grocery stores too!): matchstick carrots, broccoli (chopped into bite size pieces), diced red bell pepper, sliced green onion, and shredded cheddar cheese. Cover with foil and press down lightly (helps everything adhere better). Chill for at least two hours; better overnight. Cut into squares and enjoy!

      As for the white elephant, get a mug (or something similar – check the christmas section), fill it with candy and scratch-off lotto tickets. Wrap with tissue paper and ribbon. Done!

    16. Yorick*

      Salad wouldn’t require you to cook. Small sandwiches of some sort might be easy.

      You could also volunteer to bring the plates, bowls, etc.

      1. As Close As Breakfast*

        I love to cook but when I need a dish and don’t have time or feel like cooking, I always go the salad route. They make some amazing salad mixes these days, where you literally just have to open the different little packages and mix everything together. I’m going to a potluck party tonight actually, and in the 30 minutes I’ll have between getting home from work and leaving for the party, I shall be mixing together the Costco Chinese Style Salad Kit (I like this one because it comes with chicken.) You have to purchase the bags of lettuce separately, but it’s SUPER easy and always gets eaten up.

    17. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      Easiest dip ever: 8oz block of cream cheese – let sit out so it can soften and spread on bottom of dish (generally a smaller serving type thing that can fit in a microwave), then pour a can of hormel chili w/o beans on top, then cover with about a cup of shredded cheese. Just before you have your potluck pop into the microwave until the cheese melts. It’s good with tortilla chips.

      1. As Close As Breakfast*

        Another couple of easy cream cheese ‘dips’:

        1. 8oz block of cream cheese – pour a jar of pepper jelly over the block and serve with crackers
        2. 8oz block of cream cheese – pour shrimp cocktail over the block (shrimp and cocktail sauce already mixed together) and serve with crackers

        1. JJtheDoc*

          And the most requested cream cheese appetizer in my recipe collection:
          coat a block of good quality cream cheese in coarsely ground black (or rainbow) pepper and place on the serving plate. De-seed 2-3 small tomatoes, and cut up into small dice. Arrange a line of chopped tomato lengthwise down the center of the block of peppered cheese and put the rest of the chopped tomato around the block. Serve with crackers, baguette slices, etc.

    19. calonkat*

      If you have a crockpot, this is what I bring to potlucks. Dunno where we got the recipe, but we modified it to use whole containers of ingredients so we could just buy everything on the way to work (since we forget such potlucks a lot) The stick of margarine is the only thing that isn’t a whole unit, and you can leave it out if you like.
      Cheesy Potato Goodness
      32 oz pkg frozen hashbrowns. (we like the shredded best) thaw them in microwave if you pick them up on the way to work or put them in the fridge the night before.
      16 oz container sour cream
      3 tablespoons oleo/butter (optional)
      8 oz pk shredded cheddar cheese
      2 cans cream of chicken soup
      Mix it all together in the crockpot and cook on high until potatoes are done.
      We use crockpot liners to save cleanup, especially when taking this someplace. It not, then spray the crockpot with a non-stick spray.

    20. CAA*

      Another no-cook potluck dish is one of those salad-in-a-bag things. Just dump everything into your own bowl and you’re good to go. Lots of times if there’s a sign-up list, the cookies, chips and drinks get taken quickly, but really this kind of salad is almost as easy.

      An easy white elephant gift is a coffee mug filled with chocolate kisses. Wrap in cellophane, tie a ribbon round the top and put the whole thing in a gift bag with some tissue paper. You could also put some envelopes of fancy hot chocolate mix with a candy cane in a mug; or an assortment of tea bags with one of those mini jars of honey. There are lots of combinations that aren’t too difficult or expensive.

    21. Jules the Third*

      Fruit tray or just chopped fruit salad. My husband laughed at me when I picked up the costco fruit salad for a pot luck. It was the first dish to empty out. Everyone else brought desserts or heavy casseroles, and that one poor veggie tray – half full still at the end.

      That said, there’s two easy dishes that get gobbled at the regular pot lucks I go to: deviled eggs or quiche tartlets. You can get hardboiled eggs from the store, and there’s tons of deviling recipes online. You can get the tartlets from many grocery stores’ frozen food aisles, but they only work for evening pot lucks, or ones where you have access to an oven.

    22. ClownBaby*

      White Elephants…omg. So I always did White Elephants as a “Dig through your basement and find some old crap to give away” type thing…so when my office did a white elephant, I thought nothing of it. I dug through my basement and found some creepy talking Rodney Dangerfield doll/puppet thing. It was great. Well…imagine my surprise when all the other gifts are $20 gift cards to the local mall, nice and new headphones, tickets to the pro soccer league games….that poor, poor soul who ended up with my old Rodney Dangerfield doll…

      When did people start buying gifts for white elephants?!? I am only 27…it’s not like times should have changed that much. Was my white elephant tradition of old crap just weird? I’d done several with friends and sports teams before with no problem!

      —-
      Also, I am a terrible cook, but dips are so super easy. You can just bring a bag of Tostitos and make buffalo chicken dip (just google buffalo chicken dip for an easy recipe).

      1. Q*

        Not weird. It depends on the group, I think. I’m actually on the team who has to plan this kind of thing for the office, and when we were discussing doing it, one of my other young coworkers is like, “but you have to give me people weird, terrible junk! From Goodwill or your basement or regifts or whatever.” and one of my other coworkers was horrified and didn’t want to play with him.

        We were given a price limit. If I wasn’t 24, just moved out, and have no spare ANYTHING, I’d consider finding something in my basement.

      2. CAA*

        White elephant means different things to different people. Some groups regift kitschy or useless items, others do it by buying something new under a given spending limit. Some groups differentiate between a yankee swap and a white elephant, some don’t. Best thing to do if you’re doing one with a new-to-you group is to ask how it works for them. A lot of people won’t even realize that their understanding of the rules is not universal.

      3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego (formerly Floundering Mander)*

        I’d never heard of white elephant being anything but wacky or weird gifts, either! In my world the point was to come up with the funniest or strangest gift. So I would definitely have brought some weird thing and then been embarrassed when I got something nice!

    23. Jemima Bond*

      Slightly OT but I am learning so much about American culinary culture from this mini-thread. So far I have googled velveeta, ro-tel and cheese-whiz and learned that in the US cream cheese comes in block form and you can buy powdered salad dressing. (No disparagement meant btw; you are contributing to my education!)

      1. Specialk9*

        I didn’t know what Rotel is either and I’m American. I’m sure I’ve had both Velveeta and Cheez-Wiz at some point in my life but have never bought it. Oh! Philadelphia has sandwiches (Philly cheese steaks) that are shaved beef and lotsa toppings, and the traditional cheese topping is cheez-wiz. I tried it once and wished I had bought real cheese.

  21. Copy Editor*

    I started a job as a copy editor for a media company back in July. My duties mainly consist of editing online articles for publication (the company runs several news sites that are political in nature) and making sure article content adheres to AP style.

    Whereas I have experience as an editor, my previous job (of 8 years) consisted of republishing state, federal, and international regulations to our company website and editing them against the source doc to make sure the two documents were identical.

    This is… very different. I had familiarity with AP style, but until this job I hadn’t used it since college. There’s a LOT to remember, and I cringe every time the senior editor brings up my mistakes (usually minor, like leaving a word capitalized that should be lowercase). Any tips for improving? I’m also trying to balance quality with speed, as we have a lot of articles to get through on a given day.

    Also, is it bad that I’ve been here four months and am still making mistakes? I feel like I should be better at this by now, and it’s frustrating.

    1. 42*

      I’m an editor, but I follow AMA style. I actually think the whole concept of style guides are so fascinating that I pretty much read the AMA Manual of Style from cover to cover. The result being a general familiarity; so when something comes up, I may not remember exact the AMA preference, but I do remember that I did read something about it (if that makes sense – ie, there was definitely a rule there somewhere), and I’d go back and look it up and refresh my memory.

      I have a hard copy, but my company also has an account with the website to access the online version. Maybe you can ask for them to pay for access? When in doubt, look it up.

      As for the 4-month mark and still making mistakes, I don’t know. If I’m making mistakes, I consider it a big spotlight on things that I don’t know, and I make sure to not let it happen again when I invariably encounter it again. After a while, your own knowledge base gets bigger and bigger. Good luck.

    2. Mad Woman*

      I was previously an editor in my first post-college job. I had AP Style beaten into me as a student but I had forgotten a lot of it. My advice would be to get a AP Stylebook and read through each chapter. It sounds silly, but it will help you recognize broader topics that you can look out for (ex. times of day, titles, etc.). Then, keep the book at your desk and check anything you have a question about. To save time, I added tabs to my stylebook for the most frequent topics I had questions about.

      It felt like it took me almost 6-9 months to feel comfortable, and a year to know that I was GOOD at what I did.

    3. Lizabeth*

      I’m not a copy editor but I have to proofread my own work due to the fact the people I have available to proofread my work are crap. The best trick I have is to set it aside to the next day and look at it one more time first thing when I’m fresh, and I have caught stuff doing this. You will get better over time! It’s practice, practice, practice…and 4 months is too short to be beating yourself up over it.

      1. K.*

        In addition to reading things with fresh eyes, which I totally agree with, reading things aloud can be helpful.

    4. Copy Editor*

      I have a hard copy of the AP stylebook, and I can usually find info online about anything that is questionable. We also have an in-house style guide.

      My problem seems to be that if I’m dinged on something, I make an effort to focus on/remember to look for that issue, but then something else seems to slip my mind — even something I’ve gotten right in the past. I’ve thought about making a checklist, but it seems like it would be six pages long given all the little rules to remember.

      It doesn’t help that I’m dealing with chronic sleep deprivation, as I have a 10-month-old who still wakes up several times at night.

      1. fposte*

        A six page checklist is shorter than a whole style manual. I’d go ahead and make it; even making it will help inscribe the tenets deeper in your brain. Read through it once a week or so. Then see if you can identify any pattern to what you’re not catching. Is it punctuation, capitalization, formatting? Times, names, titles? A one-off isn’t necessarily worth extra emphasis, but a repeated error bears some prominence even if you get it right most of the time; start collecting those.

        1. Mockingjay*

          Also, do things in the same order every single time. Be methodical. This is what I do:

          1. Check document format. We use MS Word, so I check the Style Codes for Headings, Body Text, Headers, Footers, etc. I find it easier to edit and proof with a clean document.
          2. Read through entire document to absorb content.
          3. Edit content. Use track changes and comment balloons. I am looking for meaning: topic scope, technical information. Discuss with author to clarify.
          4. Edit for grammar. Subject verb agreement, punctuation, etc. This is where a style guide or style sheet listing company or industry particulars for that kind of documentation comes in handy.
          5. Check acronyms. I work in a tech-heavy field, so this is an entire separate step for me.

          Whatever your industry, breaking the editing into steps and keeping those steps consistent should help.

      2. 42*

        Yeah, I’d actually make the checklist for a couple of reasons –

        1- It would show me a pattern of the type of misses I might tend to make.
        2- I’m more of a visual learner, and if I wrote down or typed out a list of misses, it would trigger my memory of ‘having seen that before’ as I read through a new piece to edit.

        To further illustrate the benefit of this, one of my colleagues actually DID make a checklist of her common misses, and then circulated it to the rest of us. It’s now a bit of a living document on our server, where we add little tips and hacks to help each other. We found that many of our errors as a whole were universal. So don’t beat yourself up!…just make it a point to learn from then and not repeat them in whichever way is most meaningful to you.

    5. ARCopyeditor*

      I work as a freelance editor working mostly on books in Chicago Style rather than AP, but the work is very similar. My best advice to you is just keep working at it, and if you’re in doubt at all about something, look it up. I’ve been working as an editor for over a decade and still look things up if I’m not totally sure. CMOS has a website where I can search terms to make the process easier, and hopefully AP has a similar system. The more you look up things, the more familiar you will become with the guide, and eventually it will be second nature. I don’t think you should feel too bad about making mistakes still at four months. Style guides are so huge and comprehensive that it is just going to take time to learn it all. Be kind to yourself while you’re learning. Just be sure to really be aware of the mistakes and use them as learning opportunities so you’re not continuing to make mistakes. Taking feedback well and taking it to heart is an excellent way to learn!

    7. Elizabeth West*

      If there are mistakes you make consistently, I’d make a checklist of them. I did this at Exjob for stuff like checking footers, page numbers, trademark names, etc. because there was so much cut-and-paste activity in certain reports that it often messed up pagination and consistency too, if someone cut and pasted from an old report.

      I also made a style guide for myself and for the department. So if I forgot whether Weasley’s Wizard Wheezes had TM for unregistered trademark or R for registered, I could glance at it. If I kept missing it, the name went on the checklist.

      I had time to do more than one pass-through, so I did substantive edits with one each for language, format, layout, etc. It also helped if I closed it and then went back to it after attending to something else. I couldn’t print them out because each report was 200+ pages, but the small break helped reset my brain and I would sometimes catch an error I’d missed before.

    8. Where's the Le-Toose?*

      I’m a public sector managing lawyer and I edit and approve other attorneys work. While we don’t strictly adhere to the AP Style Manual, we do use it frequently and what’s helped our office is to put together a condensed spelling and word use guide that’s taken from the style manual. It’s about 25 pages and what we do is have a cover page that discusses the rule and then an attachment that has a bunch of examples. We have a section on commonly misused words (principal v. principle; biannual v. biennial), punctuation, hyphenating v. one word v. two words, and capitalization.

      The condensed guide is really useful and I open it hourly. And I’ve found that I catch a good 90% of the errors using the condensed guide and our editors are fantastic and they always catch the rest.

  22. The Curator*

    I am pretty excited about my new blog. I have been getting good responses to the postings. I am working with a children’s book artist to create spot art of a Blue Ox.
    I appreciate the AAM community for encouraging us to be brave, try new things, and push through anxiety and fear.
    Thank you.

  23. Performance Punished*

    Anyone else floating in the sea of Performance Punishment? (looking to vent and commiserate)

    I am taking a long vacation over Christmas and New Year’s and have worked extra hard to get my work all caught up before I go. But all my managers see is that, Oh look she has capacity to do all this extra/overdue stuff from everyone else on the team. And then they’ve dumped it all on me. I’ve reminded them I’m leaving next week so maybe this or that should just stay with whomever had it before but it all falls on deaf ears.

    I mean I get it, I’m helping out my coworkers and the team, but I can’t do EVERYTHING. Plus, once I touch something once it magically ends up being mine forever.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Don’t let your conscientiousness push you into doing more than you can in a reasonable workday to get the projects into a place where they’re “good” to hand off when you go on vacation.

      Hand them off in whatever state they’re in. Your coworkers are getting a favor, but you don’t need to bust your ass to make it an extra-big one.

      1. Performance Punished*

        I struggle with this so much. Because once I’m working on something I want to do it well and to the best of my ability. If I can push it back before I ever get started it’s easier. Once I’ve touched it it’s harder to let it go looking a mess.

    2. Snark*

      Been there. I just end up dumping it back on the original person’s desk. “Here’s what I’ve done so far, I’m out of town for two weeks, you own it again, kthxbye.”

        1. Snark*

          And if they expect you to continue to work on it, say, “Oh, I’m happy to help Fergus get caught up with his project, but I’m assuming it’s still his project. I’ve got a pretty full plate these days.”

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Your managers suck. Keep pushing back. And if that doesn’t work, find a new job. I know that sounds glib, but there’s honestly only so much you can do. You can either change your circumstances or you can’t.

      2. Performance Punished*

        I’ve been casually looking around within the company and nearer to me commute wise. There seems to be an over abundance of sales positions right now. Everything else I’ve applied for has given me the ole Thanks but no thanks.

        What I’m focusing on right now is what can I control in my 3 feet? So next year I’m going to ask to change my hours and see how that goes. One tiny change at a time.

        1. Jesca*

          Sometimes what ends up happening is that managers begin to see you as a “doer” as opposed to a “manager”. Therefore, they get the idea to keep you exactly where you are under the old idea of “but I neeeeeeeed her here.” This is because otherwise they would have to actually manage their team. The best way to get out of this is to hit back with a detailed showing of your own workload, and then how much time added the new workload will add. This takes you out of the super important, but often held back, “doer” and into viewing you more as someone who can manage. Don’t let them make you the path of least resistance in their management mistakes.

    4. Rebelliously Positive*

      Ha, I’m kind of in the opposite sphere where my job is pretty insular and isolated from everyone else on my team, but because I knew I was going to be away for so long, I predicted all of my work that would need to be done by January, got it ok’d by my manager, and then finished it all. In October. But because I’m kind of an island in terms of my job responsibilities, there’s nothing for my supervisors to toss my way, and I’ve already finished whatever work I could find for myself.

      So I’ve honestly been sitting here since the end of October doing menial, every day things all day, and I’m concerned because the gossip around the office is that I’m lazy and not really doing my job, which isn’t really true. It’s actually made me hate coming into work recently, because even though I generally have a thick skin, I’m starting to wonder if I really *am* being lazy or whatever, when in the beginning, I was just looking out for our organization and making sure we had everything we needed for the holidays. :(

      1. Specialk9*

        It’s a balancing act. Take this as a lesson learned that is you have to, finish in October but submit the parts in dribbles over the next weeks. That way you have everything ready to bulk submit if something happens (eg you get seriously ill) but you’ll still show progress weekly. It’s a way not to get punished for being proactive and efficient.

        If people are gossiping because you’re visibly goofing off, get a privacy screen for your computer. It’s a bit pricy, $60ish, but likely worth it if your lack of work has your reputation in question.

        Lastly, consider training courses or tutorials you can take. Set yourself a list of goals on skills you’d like – new software, management, new tricks in Microsoft, databases, etc. Then you’re clearly working, and can back it up to management.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      As a tangent concept, I live in a very small community. This means there are not enough people to meet all the needs of the community. If a person is silly enough to suggest a community idea, that person gets put in charge of the idea. People are very careful with the ideas that they express. We seem idea-less, but there are reasons for that.

  24. Ginger*

    I’m being a horrible employee this week and am spending a lot of time surfing the internet. I feel bad about this. Motivation is hard to come by and I’m suffering from mild depression lately, also maybe mild ADD. I’m caught up on work. There are things I could be working on but for the most part I’m waiting on other people to get me things that I need. I really do feel awful about it but haven’t been able to motivate myself to do more actual tasks. A lot would just be busywork right now anyway.

    Here’s the catch: I have to fill in a weekly timecard on Mondays of everything I’ve worked on the previous week. I’m going to work over the weekend and try to make up for some of the lost time, and I’m allowed to put things down like administrative time and professional development time. But how do I do this? Do I retroactively ask for a day off? I’ve been available in the office and via IM for our remote team and I’m responding to emails and handling anything urgent, so it’s not like I actually took time off. Do I own up to my boss (who is aware of my current depression) and tell them I don’t know what to do for my timecard?

    1. Really though.*

      Well, by the sounds of it, you’ve done the bare minimum that you can get away with, so I personally would say to put it down as administrative. I really wouldn’t say anything, unless you have a good relationship and really want to say something.
      I’ve been in your boat before, I reassure myself that I’m there for any work that comes in, and when I fee guilty the next week and made up for lost time.

    2. Actuarial Octagon*

      I am also salaried and fill out a time card like that. We have a category that is our job title to use when times are slow or you’re just puttering around.

      So, I’d vote admin. Or, if you think you’re boss is reasonable broach the topic with them. Something along the lines of “on my time card how should I handle times where I am available but things are slow and I’m not working on a specific project?”

      Good luck!

    3. Specialk9*

      I’m not sure why you’re beating yourself up. Sometimes we are paid for working, and sometimes we are paid to be ready to work. That’s hard for people who are very conscientious, but imagine if you had to be replaced they time instead of sitting waiting for responses – the company would lose so much knowledge and time! So look at the emails you responded to – put those projects in, and the projects that are on hold waiting for response too. It’s not on you that there is a delay.

      So don’t worry too much about it, but don’t make a habit of it. Look at your projects and make a list of things you can learn in downtime, that would help you. Things like how to use Excel or Word better – something doable and in a small chunk that improves your approach to that project. Write them down so you don’t have to use a lot of motivation or willpower when you’re low. Keep track of them so you can point to them if managers notice you’re low.

  25. ann perkins*

    It has been a slow week this week at work so my motivation is basically non-existent. I’ve done everything I’ve needed to do and know that this type of thing is normal but still feel guilty I’ve been slacking this week – then again, I haven’t had a lot to do! Is slacking sometimes a normal thing?

    1. Hallway Feline*

      Sometimes that happens for me over here. One week could be really busy/stressful with everything that comes in, then the next week is just quiet. I guess it’s the nature of the business, and as long as you do everything, you’re doing your job and there’s nothing you can do about it. Ultimately, I don’t think it’s slacking if there’s no work.

      Could you maybe help out other departments/areas in slow times? Do all of the tasks that have been pushed off because they’re non-urgent (ex: shredding piles, relabeling files)?

    2. Ginger*

      Slacking is definitely normal. See my post above. If you’re truly caught up on your work, I wouldn’t feel guilty about it. Is there other stuff you can find to do? Of course there probably is. But there’s also probably weeks where you’re so busy that you forget to eat and it evens out.

    4. Jesca*

      In my current role, I have sooooo much down time. My role is new, and what I am currently doing is also new to the company as well. Basically, they have no idea how long it takes me (pretty quickly actually) to get tasks done, they do not want me to get caught up in the day to day stuff in case they need me, and really have a hard time grasping what I say (because it is new to them).

      Basically, I am an expert who sits around waiting for someone to need my expertise. I feel useless, but I have long gotten over my guilt. Restructuring is happening, so I hope they have a cool job open soon that I can apply for!

      Don’t feel guilty that you work has slowed, because it will pick up and likely at some point be more than you can handle. When mine picks up, it is usually last minute and I am working all day through lunches to get it completed. So just relax. You are fine.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      No one ever works at 100% capacity all the time. Matter of fact, it’s fairly predictable that if someone works at 110% capacity on Monday then by Friday they will be “slacking”.
      We have a finite amount of energy. Sometimes that energy gets burned up at double or triple speed because of emotionally charged issues or because of a steady stream of head-banging problems.

      One thing I have done to avoid rollercoastering like this is to watch how much I do on my busy days. Just because I CAN do it does not mean I SHOULD. I aimed for leveling out the work pace to a more even pace throughout the work week. This does help. Another good thing to do is to line up smaller more mindless projects for those times where you want to slack off a bit. I have to write a list or I will not remember all those small projects that need to be done sometime.

  26. Hallway Feline*

    So I started a new job two months ago after leaving my last toxic manager. New managers have been great! They trust me to get my work done, are pretty hands-off, and truly believe in work-life balance.

    However, I’m unhappy. I can handle a job where it’s fairly repetitive tasks over and over. A little underwhelming, maybe, but gotta pay the bills somehow, and it’s not terrible. But the people here aren’t as friendly. (They were yesterday at the holiday party while they all got drunk, but they went back to unfriendly this morning.) They keep to themselves and only talk to the people they’ve worked with for 5+ years, if they make any noise at all during the day. I thought I would be okay with that, but it turns out I’m not (it was a surprise to me too). I want to have some people at work to chit chat with for 5 minutes a day. Right now, my longest conversation was 30 seconds.

    Being new and wanting interaction, I understand that it is on my shoulders to engage people. But every trick I’ve used in the past has failed! I brought baked goods and sent a department wide email advertising them (1 person came over), I asked people about their pets (they have them but the pets are just kind of there in their lives, clearly not as important to them as mine are to me), I put up interesting items at my desk for people to talk about (nobody has commented on the Harry Potter stuff or cute cat figurine).

    So, AAM community, what else could I do or say? I’m at a loss here, and as my friends have heard, this is really tough for me. I love the mission (and benefits, let’s be real) of the company, but it’s hard to be motivated with both a dull job and no friendly faces in the office. Help!

      1. Hallway Feline*

        They work 7-4 and I work 8-5 so I can ask, but I know that most of them have kids to get home to.

        1. Specialk9*

          It sounds like they may just be not interested.

          Or that they are from that (to me, incomprehensible) breed without empathy or experience being the outsider – which is the better option because it means they may be open to socializing if invited, but won’t do the work to get to know you on their own. Which is annoying but workable.

          But it also sounds like you may only be interested in talking about things of interest to you. You want to talk about cats and Harry Potter, which some people might like, but I know I’d struggle to talk about, and I’m super friendly with co-workers. I have a family member who just can’t be arsed to care about anything in my life unless it aligns with his very narrow band of interests. It’s very alienating.

          Have you tried talking about *their* things? You asked about their pets, but they have kids – have you asked about their kids? (Even if you maybe give zero pucks about kids, you can surely find *something* to talk about… did you like sledding as a kid? Ask about that – what kind of sled do they use, do they have a hill nearby, how steep, any major falls, etc.)

          You mentioned that you put conversation starters on your desk for them to ask about. Have you looked at their desks and asked about their interests? (You totally may have, but in your list of all the things you’ve tried, you didn’t mention it.)

          Another thing that has worked for me has been just saying to someone ‘hey I know we sit right next to each other, but we don’t get much chance to chat about non work things. Would you like to grab a quick coffee sometime?’ And sending a lunch invitation to several people – there’s something magically focusing about Outlook invitations.

    2. Jenn*

      Can you ask people to lunch? My department works in a separate building from the rest of the org staff, so we have a lunch meeting with another department once a month, rotating through each department. We brown bag it and eat in a conference room.

      1. Hallway Feline*

        I can try to implement that. We’ll see if their schedules will allow them to take lunch. (They’re all in finance, so they just work their 8 salaried hours then go home while I’m hourly so my lunch has to be at set times.)

    3. Hallway Feline*

      I should also mention that one of the people openly told me that it wasn’t important to learn my name until after 30 days had passed, and not in a joking way. But from what I understood and learned about the company, turnover is not that high. So that was kind of unpleasant.

      1. Intel Analyst Shell*

        My first thought was that they probably had a new hire leave a bad taste in their mouth before. My office has had it happen multiple times, think finding out a new hire is related to or bff’s with HR after you’ve been complaining about HR’s incompetence in front of them, finding out new hire is a manipulative and spinning the instructions you give them to be borderline against the law, etc. We of course don’t go out of our way to ignore the new hires or be rude but we walk on eggshells for at least the first 3 months someone is there. Not an excuse for how your new colleagues are acting towards you, and I may be in the minority but I think your only option may be to sit back and show that you’re trustworthy and friendly.

        1. Hallway Feline*

          I understand that line of thinking, especially so since my last company had high turnover, etc. But to tell that to someone’s face? Idk, to me that seems a little weird.

          1. AJ*

            I agree. Even if the person thinks it’s true, or is still stewing over the last new hire(s) they could at least make a small effort to be polite. That was weird and rude. I say give this job a chance, keep working at trying to get to know people. For me, trying TOO hard and not getting results would deplete my emotional energy, but so would giving up and not having any social interaction at all. Decide on the balance/apex that is best for you. But if it doesn’t get better in a reasonable amount of time – don’t be afraid to move on. Office culture is important and it’s ok to need/want something different.

        2. blackcat*

          +1

          When I was a 22 year old, fresh out of school teacher at a school that was almost entirely staffed by veteran teachers (they aimed to hire people with 5+ years experience), I heard A LOT about the last 22 year old, fresh out of school hire. He was, apparently, a dumpster fire of a teacher. Epic dumpster fire.

          Most of what I heard was along the lines of “I’m so glad you’re not like so and so,” and once people started saying that, I understood why almost everyone was so stand-offish in my first few months. I had good friends within 9 months. It worked out fine!

  27. Pau*

    I’m a freelance artist of sorts, and have one regular customer that comnissions me about once a week or so. We communicate via Skype, ans she liked my art so much she created a group to promote it among her friends, and see if that way I could get some more customers.

    Most of the people there are nice, but there is this one person I can’t stand. They didn’t spoke a single word for a month after being added to the group, and only decided to speak up for the first time after someone directly addressed them about their opinion over a commission I had just delivered to the group. Their answer was along the lines “I wasn’t going to say anything because I don’t like this kind of style, but since you asked… no, I don’t like it”.

    I can’t hardly fault them for this, true, but lately they have made some comments, bringing up “issuess” with drawings that are not being made for them when the commissioner themselves hadn’t complained and such. It makes me horribly uncomfortable, but I can’t thell them to just stop making comments because I don’t want to alienate my commissioner against me.

    I recognize I’m a bit over sensitive when people criticize my art, but I honestly think they hace no ground bringing up things that THEY consider issues in public, not even directly addressing them at me, when they hace openly said they simply dislike how I do things, and they are not getting involved in the group in any other way.

    I have tried being friendly with them, bringing up common interests for the group and trying to build up a conversation, but they simply ignored me and left me “talking alone”, without even bothering to answer.

    Is there a way I can address this without angering or making my commissioner uncomfortable?

    1. Q*

      Ugh, why is she even in this group, then?

      If possible, I wouldn’t reach out to her. I guess that might anger your commissioner, but if there are other people there who enjoy your work, it shouldn’t look too conspicuous that you don’t reach out to her.

      (I’m not saying ignore her if she says something first, but she doesn’t seem like she’s real talkative to begin with)

    2. OlympiasEpiriot*

      That is hard. Any way you could just talk to your commissioner about this person along the lines of “do you think they might not being enjoying being part of this group?”

      Really, although they are talking about your work, it is more about them than you (or your work). I mean, about art, there is LOADS to discuss even if one doesn’t “like” a style. Sometimes there’s more to discuss when one doesn’t like it than when one does.

      Maybe a deflection like “each piece finds its audience” would help, too.

      Art is a difficult path. A lot of time it seems the piece isn’t complete until it has an audience. (Have a was-band who was an artist. I watched a lot of the art environment dance while we were together.)

      Keep your chin up! You have people who obviously love your work!

    3. Havarti*

      There’s something about this arrangement that’s bugging me and I can’t quite put my finger on it. Is the person who created the group the only one who commissions you? If so, her attempt to get you more customers has failed. Also, is the art for her or for the group? Portraits of RP characters? Graphics for a website? If so, design by committee is always a nightmare.

      Honestly, in your shoes, I would make myself less available to the group (is it via a forum or something?). Like yeah, you have a regular commissioner – awesome! But you’re not their pet artist that needs to do tricks to please someone else in the group. There’s two kinds of criticism: legit and not legit. Legit is “proportions look off” or “legs don’t bend that way.” If they’re saying they don’t like your art style, that’s a matter of taste and not a constructive criticism. Especially if they’re not offering examples of what they would prefer to see.

      So be courteous in general but don’t bother interacting with the Debby Downer – you too can be selectively deaf. And if you’re not friends with your commissioner, all the more reason to take a step back and keep the relationship more separated. If you want more work, you’ll need to promote yourself outside of the group. Get your own website/blog if you don’t have one already. Find other groups to engage with. Don’t let this one person and their group have too much power over you.

      Before you talk to your commissioner, think about what you want the result to be. Do you want the person to stop making the comments? And do what instead? Stay quiet or say only nice things? Do you want them thrown out of the group? To me, all these possible paths lead to drama of the bad kind.

      If the work you’re making is supposed to benefit the whole group, you can say “Hey, I’m making these things for your group but person X doesn’t seem to like what I make. Should I be doing something differently?” and see what your paying customer says. If they say “No, I like how you’re doing the thing. Ignore X.” then great! If they say “Yes, I’d prefer you do XYZ” – well, they’re essentially paying you for a product, right? So do XYZ instead if you’re ok with it. If person still complains, well they’re not paying you so ignore them. If you’re making something strictly for the commissioner and they’re the one parading it around soliciting feedback, then I’d say ignore the person anyway.

  28. Jane*

    I posted this on corporette but I want to hear what others think.

    How do you deal when someone (a guy) who is ten years younger than you and has only been with your firm for a few months replaced you on the most high profile project of the company?

    I’ve worked on this project since the first day, which has been for two years. I have a lot of hands on experience in the subject matter, whereas he has academic experience.

    The reason I was taken off was initially a misunderstanding. The managers of the project thought that my boss was playing politics and didn’t want to “share” me. My boss is really powerful but is not involved with this high profile project and has a tendency to get grumpy when I’m pulled off of his projects and into other department’s projects, which this one is.

    When I asked him about it, he said he never implied that to the managers of this project. I took that information to them and said I wanted back on. In that time, the new guy had been on the project for a month now and had done really great work. They said they’d bring me into help the new guy if he needed it. He’s still getting all the major assignments and if I’m brought in, it will be as a secondary role.

    I’ve always received glowing reviews and am frequently sought out by our executives for special projects, so I don’t think it’s because the quality of my work is lacking. They actually are having him go over my past reports to get acquainted with the case.

    I’m upset over this and need some perspective. This has no effect on my job security. My direct boss loves me and he’s the one who determines my salary and bonus. It’s just been a wound to my professional pride, and I’m havimg a really hard time letting it go and not being resentful.

    1. Courtney*

      I don’t know, I can kind of see their perspective here, and it doesn’t really sound like this is a personal thing at all. If they know your boss had been getting grumpy about you getting pulled into other department’s projects, I can see why they would decide to give the new guy a crack at it if he’s been doing well so far. I don’t think it was a great move of them to do that without talking to your boss about it first to make sure this project was an issue, since you have already been working on it for some time. But it sounds like, from their perspective, they finally had a new staff member they could use on this project instead of you, and they figured it might make your boss happy due to his pattern of being upset when you do work for other departments.

      I get that it feels personal to you because you had been working on this project for so long. But I wouldn’t take it as a wound to your professional pride – this is about your boss, not you.

    2. Shock&Naw*

      I think you’re taking this too personally. Somehow, you got screwed…either the other managers thought your boss had a problem or your boss unconsciously implied he had a problem. Either way, it does not sound like the change was a reflection on you or your work at all. Is it possible to let all involved know that you would like the opportunity to lead the next high profile project?

      Again, based on what you described, I don’t think this has anything to do with your personally. Just a lot of miscommunication from peple who don’t know how to talk to each other and straighten out issues before taking drastic actions.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed. One thing I have done is created my own project. By this I mean, I looked around for a problem or project that everyone was ignoring but needed to be done. I adopted that problem/project and knocked it out of the park. I got kuddos for that. From what I have seen we can gain inroads by taking on the stuff that no one wants/has time for/etc. I gained good standing and collected up some markers for doing this.

    3. New Window*

      I don’t think I have any practical advice, but honestly I think that’s a raw deal you got, even if it was accidental. It’s the highest profile project in the company, so I’m assuming that if it’s successful, there will be credit dispensed for it, and it sucks when that credit goes to not the person who did the most work to make it successful. So, yeah, what the above commenters said may not be off base, but also I can definitely understand being upset.

      Does your boss know that you (I assume) got a lot of satisfaction from that project? Is there any way you can work/talk with your boss about getting onto another high profile project? Are there people you’ve worked with on this one that you can collaborate with for other things?

  29. Big Fat Meanie*

    I’m so sick of the diet talk at work.

    It was bad enough having to overhear two coworkers constantly talking about this cleanse, or that fad diet (often assigning morality to certain foods), or how they haave to “be good” and go to the gym today. Your body, your business, you’re free to buy into whatever woo floats your boat, but the constant obsessing is not great to hear. Then you have the people stopping by whatever food is on the table outside my cube and going into some monologue about whether they should eat it, ending with some justification, like if they don’t acknowledge that the food they’re eating is “bad” I’m going to judge them. Makes me wonder what people think of me when I grab a slice of pizza without doing that verbal shame dance as well.

    THEN the other day it got to be too much. We were in a meeting, it ended, but since we still had the room the people who needed to go somewhere else bolted and everyone else hung around, some people started talking about how they’re cutting carbs, and the conversation escalated to the point where people were like “all right, we’re ALL gonna cut carbs! No carbs!” It made me wanna throw up. I tried to block it out but it was tough. I’m at risk of an eating disorder right now and really trying to work on my relationship with food and my body, after comments from family members about how I need to watch my portions and that overeating (even during the holidays) is disgusting.

    It’s the damn holidays, damnit, just people enjoy food!

    1. Sue No-Name*

      Good luck! This is really hard. I don’t know how to combat it, having cut bait and gotten a new job when I used to work in an overly diet-obsessed office :(

    2. Jadelyn*

      I either studiously ignore it – as in, pull out my phone and pointedly disengage from the conversation – or literally leave the room. When I can’t avoid it, I just smile and shrug and say “I don’t see it that way, but I hope you get what you want to get out of doing it!” I don’t want to be That Jerk who scolds people and undermines what they’ve decided they want to do, but that’s the closest I can get to saying “good luck/good for you” without feeling like I’m contributing to diet culture. If I’m feeling contentious enough to speak up, I’ll drop comments about how I don’t feel like food is a moral choice, it’s just food, or I might joke about taking a nondiscrimination mindset into all aspects of my life, including food groups, including treats and junk food.

      I’d probably have walked out during the carbs conversation you describe. Or my response to “we’re all gonna cut carbs” would have been a raised eyebrow and “Y’all have fun with that, I’ll be over here enjoying my delicious bread-based foods without a single moment of guilt.”

    3. GRA*

      There is an awesome poster available from Nalgona Positive on Etsy. I have one on my fridge at home and one in my office at work. It states that “You Are In A Body-Positive Zone” and asks to refrain from several destructive behaviors such as Diet/Weight Talk, Body Policing, and more.

      I have gotten so many positive comments since hanging it in both places – several from people who have said they just hadn’t thought about their comments in that light. And those who I know are scoffing at it can’t really say anything because they’d look like body-shaming jerks.

      1. soupmonger*

        I like that poster, and like that sentiment too. I run my own business and it’s a food business, so the only weirdness about food in our place is if we don’t have enough for everyone to have some. In which case, there’s always biscuits.

    4. Is it Friday Yet?*

      There’s a meme that I saw once but still really like. It says “Eat whatever you want, and if someone tries to lecture you about your weight, eat them too.”

    5. anon24*

      When will people get that no one wants to hear about your diet? I diet. I do food challenges (doing one now actually). I get that nobody cares what I can and cannot eat. I try so hard to make my diet no big deal and I hate when anyone wants to talk about it.

  30. Danger: Gumption Ahead*

    My boss is pissed at me because I won’t let a temp who has been out with a chronic illness flare up go. Yes, she no call/no showed after Thanksgiving, but, after I had the temp agency get in touch with her emergency contact to find out if she was OK, we learned she was medi-evaced to a hospital in the main city and her phone had been left at her family’s rural home.

    I dunno, I think that someone who has been an otherwise stellar worker should get a pass if a chronic health condition puts them in the ICU. My boss disagrees. I might have to die on this hill.

    2. anon24*

      Thank you for being willing to take a stand on this issue. No one chooses to have a chronic illness, and no one should be punished for something they can’t control. I understand your boss thinks they are looking out for the interests of the company but a little compassion goes a long way and other employees will take note of how this situation is handled.

    3. AngelicGamer aka that visually impaired peep*

      Wouldn’t firing a person having a medical emergency bring up bad PR / a legal issue?

      1. Danger: Gumption Ahead*

        She is a temp so I doubt it would come to anything. Technically she doesn’t work for us but the temp agency.

    4. CatCat*

      Why does your boss disagree? I mean, what did he expect the person to do in this situation? What is there to gain here for your employer and boss other than a terrible reputation?

      1. Danger: Gumption Ahead*

        She seems to be hung up on the woman not being accountable or having a plan for this or something? I mean I get it. I was pissed off until the temp agency got in touch with her emergency contact, but once I learned of the illness and the circumstances I completely understood. I’m not sure why this is such a big thing. She is a temp so it isn’t like her absence is costing us anything and it is a SUUUPPPPEREEEERRRRR slow time right now.

        I wonder if my boss doubts the veracity of the story?

        1. CatCat*

          But why would she doubt the veracity of the story? Have there been other issues with the temp? Does this sound like plausible scenario: temp no calls/no shows for no good reason and then makes sure that her emergency contact will relay some lies to anyone who calls?

          Does the boss think this won’t be heard by other employees and temps? How does she think this will go over in those circles?

          1. CatCat*

            I mean, how does she think firing the temp will go over (just to clarify the “this” in the last question above).

            1. Danger: Gumption Ahead*

              She thinks of the temps as disposable. If one gives you trouble you just ask for a new one. I disagree.

              1. [insert witty user name here]*

                I mean…. that’s PART of the appeal of using a temp. But it’d be more trouble to bring a new one up to speed than lose one that’s been a stellar worker otherwise. Glad you’re willing to take a stand on this! The temp is lucky to have you in her corner.

                1. [insert witty user name here]*

                  That sounded harsher than I meant it. Yes, I agree to a certain extent – but I agree to the point of “if they’re giving you trouble WORK-WISE, ask for a new one.” This is not work; it’s life-or-death, it sounds like. This situation is illustrative of why people have/ask for emergency contacts. This was literally an emergency, not someone being flippant or irresponsible. Sorry your boss is being crappy on this.

              2. New Window*

                Your boss seems to be in the delightful mindset that human beings are objectified commodities. I’m sure she’s upset that the temp company saddled her with a “defective product.” *rage*

                Thank you for taking this stand. Poor temp worker. :-(

          2. Danger: Gumption Ahead*

            I’m the one who supervises and manages the temps and if they aren’t performing up to snuff it is my project and work that gets hurts. My boss’s only contact is when she walks by their cubes, so I have no idea what is up with this. I wonder if she believes temps are more likely to lie? Or if she thinks I am being “soft” or “naive”? I have no clue. It is really out of character

            I figure if the temp agency who pays her sick leave and insurance doesn’t doubt the story and the temp has always been conscientious there is no reason to doubt.

            1. CatCat*

              It’s just so strange. The boss’ behavior makes it seem like your boss doesn’t trust your judgment.

              1. SophieChotek*

                Yes – or has had some super-unfortunate experience in the past which is coloring their judgment/reaction to this case.

    5. paul*

      WTF is with your boss?

      I’m pretty hard ass about no call no showing, but if you got medi-vacced…yikes.

      1. Danger: Gumption Ahead*

        Exactly. I’m usually no nonsense on this, but in the ICU and not having your phone which has your contacts is pretty much on my top 10 list of acceptable reasons to no call/no show

    6. Jadelyn*

      For the love of all the gods, what kind of person thinks it’s okay to continue being angry at someone who was med-evac’d to the freaking ICU because she didn’t call first? That’s awful.

    7. Q*

      What the hell, boss.

      Makes me even more grateful that when I overslept two hours the Monday before Thanksgiving (and thus did not call), my supervisors and coworkers panicked and thought I died before I got a hold of them and came in. No discussion whatsoever of a punishment, just relief I was alive.

    8. fposte*

      I mean, I’d be okay if he was like “bummer for her, but that’s why we have temps; let’s call the agency and get somebody else out.” You’re not a bad guy for not holding a job for a temp.

      But that’s not where he’s coming from–he’s mad because she “flaked” and wants to fire her, not just not hold her job. That’s crazy.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      “Boss, I don’t want to be THAT person who fires people for not showing up because they were in ICU. We fire her and that story will go right around. We don’t want to be known as that type of company.”

      OR: “Boss typically when people end up in ICU it is because they are extremely ill, possibly near death. It sounds like we are saying that ‘being near death is no excuse for not showing up for work’. I don’t think that is a message we want to put out there.”

      Annnd: “Boss, my suggestion is that since we want an on-going relationship with the temp agency, as we need their people, we should defer to their judgement in these matters. If they say the situation is okay with them, then we probably need to let it be okay with us.”

      1. Specialk9*

        Honestly, your boss has shown her true colors, and they’re puke green and dog diarrhea yellow. Now you know.

        You might try some shaming, but someone who thinks to fire someone living on the very edge of existence, financially, and is now going to lose everything she has because of huge medical bills… Well there’s no shame and no decency in that person.

        Perhaps hope for karma, and look for a new boss?

  31. Salesforce Admin?*

    Any Salesforce admins or CRM managers out there who would be willing to answer my questions about getting into the field? Mostly interested in hearing about your background and your Salesforce/CRM experience. What do your daily/weekly tasks look like? Do you think the field is pretty stable as far as job prospects for the next 5-10 years? Thank you!

    1. Georgia*

      So not exactly what you’re looking for, but I’ve been a PM for Microsoft CRM customization projects for about 5 years. It’s definitely been a growing field for us and we’re always looking for configurers/admins.

    3. PieInTheBlueSky*

      I’m a Salesforce admin for our organization, but it’s only about 10% of my time. We started using SF a few years ago because we previously tracked our campaigns in an Excel sheet and it just was not efficient anymore. We have a small IT group, so because I also do UNIX and ERP systems administration and support, I was also given the SF “hat” to wear.
      We hired consultants to come in and help us set up our SF instance and give us training and initial support, but we’ve supported it on our own since then. Most if it is routine, such as: figuring out why our online forms are no longer adding data into SF, user support, tweaking automated message rules, managing SF updates, etc. As we gain more experience as an organization, maybe we’ll utilize the platform more, but right now it does what we need it to do.

    4. GriefBacon*

      I just left a Salesforce admin job (funding ran out, otherwise I would have stayed for years). I didn’t have any Salesforce experience before that, but had worked with applicant tracking systems a lot. My organization was hiring an entry-level database administrator because that’s all they could afford, so I lucked out there. We transitioned to Salesforce about 6 months ago, and it was utter hell. Our consultants were terrible and just stopped building things. So my colleague and I stepped in and built 80% of our instance by ourselves (again, with no prior experience).

      In my case, daily/weekly tasks were a little different than I imagine most SF admin jobs would be — it was still really training heavy when I left. But in addition to intensive staff training, a lot of creating objects, relationships, reports. Building forms. Creating workflow rules. Spending a lot of time in Form Assembly and other apps, getting those to work right. Because we had just transitioned and we had several different teams using a CRM for the first time, I was doing a LOT of process development.

  32. Danae*

    I may have a very difficult decision to make ahead of me. I’m a contingent worker at a tech company currently (you have definitely heard of this company). I love it here—the people are awesome, the work is interesting and challenging, they’re paying me relatively large amounts of money. But they have a habit of laying off people with zero notice. That happened to a coworker—he went from “everything is awesome” to “today’s your last day” with no warning. So I’ve been keeping my hand in the job search.

    I had an interview for a FTE job this week, and it went really well. The company is smaller and a little more stealth, but the people seem nice, and the work is all up my alley. An FTE position in my particular corner of tech is nearly unheard of—I’ve been contracting for most of the last 15 years because there are no full time positions to be had.

    So if it comes to an offer…this is going to be a hard decision. I love my current job, I suspect that they want to try and bring me on full time eventually (though see above about FTE positions being rare)…it’s ideal except for the lack of any kind of PTO.

    The potential job would also be interesting, though less challenging to begin with. And I’m likely to be taking a $20k pay cut, though we haven’t talked too much about money yet. But they need someone long term, and it sounds like there are a lot of opportunities to grow.

    This one’s gonna be a hard one, if it comes to pass.

    1. Alice*

      Would it still be a 20K pay cut after taxes, 401k, etc? All the things that change between contractor and employee (if that’s what “contingent worker” is).

      1. Danae*

        Yup. I’m a W2 employee of a contracting agency, so they deal with taxes. I’m expecting the new company to come in about $65k, I currently make $90k, and there’s about $5k worth of benefits that I’d be getting (401k match, PTO, etc).

        Now, I don’t live like I make $90k—I’m paying down some significant debt from being underemployed for several years and saving like mad because who knows when this job will end. But the loss of income is surely going to smart if I go with the new job.

        1. AndersonDarling*

          I’m a worry-wort, so I would take the FTE. I interviewed for a big company that had a great position, but it was a place that would randomly lay off individuals and divisions with no notice. Everyone was up front about it, so much that you knew you wouldn’t retire, you would be spontaneously laid off. I couldn’t live like that. Especially knowing that my team would be laid off and replaced every other year even if I made it through the lay-offs. I have to stick with the sure thing even if it is a pay cut.
          Maybe some day your current employer would ask you to come back to a FT position and you can have the best of both worlds.

        2. Jerry Vandesic*

          I’d keep looking. A 22% reduction in pay is pretty significant. Even more important is that the move would put you in a lower pay position for several years (unless your field doesn’t penalize job hopping).

          Did the new employer have an understanding of what you were looking for in compensation? Are they open to negotiation?

        3. Specialk9*

          I have very low threshold for anxiety about job stability, but $20k is too much even for me to drop by (not at that the under $100k end of the spectrum). That’s a lot of money you can sock away, and if you hand it away early in your career the cascading impacts are huge. (It’s why the penalty to women if they negotiate is especially pernicious.)

          Read Mr Money Mustache – he has lived for years now in early retirement from originally making a $100k salary but living on less than half.

          So no, not this job, keep looking.

          1. nonymous*

            reading this thread late, but I wanted to point out that MMM makes good money from his blogging/online consulting (and I think he has/had rentals too). So while he may have retired from his original 100K gig early, he’s definitely supplementing his original nest egg with alternative revenue streams, and probably putting in full-time hours. I applaud MMM’s frugality and their family’s non-gendered division of household roles, but his narrative boils down to being self-employed with really really flex hours.

            Esp. when it comes to self-employment revenue, the tax code is set up that if you take the income as owner (not worker bee) there is no SS or medicare contribution on that amount. What most self-employed folks do is pay themselves a nominal salary (like $35K) and then the rest goes to company profit distributed to the owner. In a scenario where the LLC nets 100K, that can mean $65K not subject to medicare &SS deductions! If the $65K went to a traditional payroll situation, only $55K goes to the employee. The reason for distributing a nominal amount as pay is so the owner is still eligible for SS/Medicare when they are ready for retirement, as well as some other tax-leveraged retirement savings opportunities.

    2. AJ*

      I feel like your post could have been me a few years ago. I’m also a W2 contractor in a small tech field, working contracts for about 10 years while looking for permanent positions. I’m on my second contract at a popular giant tech company (2 2-year contracts with the same team, including the 6-month required break between contracts). My second contract is almost up. I love my job and want nothing more than to stay on full time– the work is super interesting, I feel my work makes an impact, and I love my coworkers. At the end of my 1st contract they told me they would convert me, so I turned down a great permanent offer at another company in my small niche field. But then they waited too long to convert me and lost the budget/head count to do so. My contract ran out and I was unemployed, hating myself for turning down that great position that didn’t seem so exciting at the time. I needed work, so I ended up going back for the second contract with the same team, but things are looking much worse for FTE conversion now.

      Honestly, if they wanted to bring you on full time, then they would push to get it done soon while they can. I learned the hard way not to wait around for them to get it together.

      1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        My gut feeling is that if your company wants to convert you to full time, they will push to do it sooner rather than later. It kind of feels like a boyfriend that won’t really commit to being exclusive as long as they think they can keep you on the hook while they pursue someone they like better.

        It sounds like this particular job might not be right for the OP but I would certainly keep an eye out for something more stable. But you’ll be in a better position to decide after they actually make you an offer.

    3. Windchime*

      I’ve never been a contractor, but I’m also in tech for healthcare. I took a $10k pay cut to work at my current employer; at first, I was really worried about it but the benefits (10% matching for 401k!!???) and environment is so much better than it was totally worth it.

  33. Lizabeth*

    Head hitting keyboard situation, actually two with the same MO – a sales rep and a division creative both having dementia issues. And no, they haven’t been formally diagnosed BUT they are presenting much like my mom, who has been formally diagnosed. BTW both are males in their 70s and 80s – I don’t know if this has any bearing or not to be honest.

    How do we (my office) best deal with them as they don’t use email or internet reasonably, forget despite reminders of what they had decided a week ago and change their minds, drama out the wazoo over everything (and I mean everything) and being down right nasty? I have refused to deal with the division creative at all after getting an incredibly nasty and unprofessional email about a work project plus a lukewarm backhanded apology. Fortunately I don’t deal with him on a daily basis. The other is a sales rep and our leading money one so getting PTB to replace him is out of the question. I don’t deal with the sales rep but our stylist deals with both of them and has just about had it. Thoughts?

    1. WellRed*

      I have no suggestions, but I have a coworker who is…starting to worry me just ever so slightly. She is 65 and her husband has had health issues for awhile (and have impacted his executive functioning) and they have no children so I worry that if something is going on, it will take a while for anyone to notice.

    2. Artemesia*

      My father’s boss carried him for a couple of years near the end of his career when he was undiagnosed but in the early stages of dementia; he was literally a rocket scientist and to watch him struggle to do the work he had done for decades was really sad. His boss made him him assistant and took the heat off and he was able to retire at 65 with full pension (those were the days).

      The early years with dementia are hell for the person in decline and nasty behavior is common; they are afraid and lashing out at everyone and everything that is making their lives difficult. IMHO the only way to deal with this is straight up as a performance issue with pressure to retire. It requires firm management and not ignoring the issues. If there is not competent management then people need to work around these guys and back up and duplicate their work. Or they need to let things fail if they are in charge until management steps up. There is no adaptation that will make things right again.

      1. Artemesia*

        I had overlooked that one was the top rainmaker — well not for long. If management doesn’t figure out how to move someone else into the sales role, they are going to have hell to pay at some point.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          If the rainmaker is signing legal contracts with customers this could run into legal issues. A person with diminished capacity who signs a contract, renders the contract useless.

          Probably one or both people are out driving around. There will come a point where they probably should not be driving. Is the company willing to absorb any liability if they have an accident on the clock?

          Since these people are both getting on in years TPTB should have a plan in place on how to replace them. Well in any organization, the bosses should know how they will find people to replace anyone in the organization.

          Is this a company that lets things go until they reach crisis level before they deal?

          Since you know they will not listen to you as one person, perhaps the solution is to get several people together for a sit down meeting to express your concerns.

    3. New Window*

      I almost wonder if this wouldn’t be something worth submitting to Alison as a question. People are working until later and later in their lives, so your workplace is sure to be one of many who are dealing or will be dealing with this kind of problem.

  34. Sally Sparrow*

    This isn’t exclusively work related but since it is a (growing) portion of my job and one I feel like I am having trouble getting better at, I’m asking anyway.

    What are some tips/suggestions/advice for networking/mingling? Specifically, I help with a lot of the events at my work. So these people would not be for my own network necessarily so much as to not stand around awkwardly and be a good hosts to our guests. I’ve got the greeting people and asking how they are down pat, but then I don’t know what to say after that.

    Large groups of people tend to ramp up my anxiety and shyness, whereas I’m much more outgoing with my coworkers so there is a disconnect in personas, so whenever I ask for some guidance from them I get responses along the lines ‘Oh, but you’re so great and friendly. Just be yourself.”

    So advice/guidance? What are some safe topics for a variety of age ranges (from 20 to 93) to get the other person to talk? And what about if people have already grouped themselves off (so four people here, five people there, three people over there and they all seem to know each other, but I’m still supposed to work the room for my job)?

    2. Sunflower*

      So I do events for a law firm but I’m not a lawyer so I spend a lot of time talking to people where we have zero professional work overlap.

      I usually start off asking what company they are from and what they do. In turn they ask me- I’m an event planner so they tend to have a lot of questions or interest about it because it seems like such a fun job (and I have to crush their dreams and tell them noso). I work in a large city so I usually ask where their office is/if it’s close by. I also ask people if they are from the area or where they went to school(if applicable) or sometimes what area they live in now. This usually ends up going into shops or restaurants in the area. These main questions usually end up spinning off plenty of safe topics.

    3. Elizabeth*

      “What’s keeping you busy lately?” is a good neutral icebreaker.

      Mondays, ask what they did last weekend. Thursdays and Fridays, ask what their plans are for the weekend.

    4. Louise*

      Just keep asking people questions about themselves! I used to have borderline-crippling social anxiety, and a big way I deal with it is just to get whoever I’m talking to to talk about themselves! Some good early-convo questions:
      -When did you join [company]?
      -What were you doing before you joined [company]?
      -Whereabouts do you live? Do you have any [restaurant/bookshop/park] recommendations for next time I’m in the area?

      Usually people will say something interesting enough in those responses that it warrants a follow up question. I personally love talking to people who work in industries that I know nothing about, because I can do the “that’s so cool, tell me more!” pretty much infinitely. The other way to go is to find something you have in common with them—no matter how small! Whether it’s a mutual love of cats, taking the same route on public transport, or even just nibbling on the same hors d’oeuvres, finding a shared something to chat about can be a great way to make convos feel less awkward quickly.

  35. not so desperate*

    Just a quick thank you to everyone who had advice a few weeks ago about my offer for a promotion that came with a ridiculously low raise for the position. I made a reasonable counter to my boss who said they wouldn’t budge, I turned down the promotion and ramped up my job search that night. With any luck I’ll be out of here early January

  36. Fake old Converse shoes*

    Yesterday we were invited to the client’s holiday party, which is going to take place at a house in the countryside. There’s even rumors that some prominent (and according to some women, really hot) person is invited to give a speech. However, I can’t go because I have an exam. I had a bit of a disagreement with my manager cause I requested two days off, but he considers I’ve had far too many this year, so he’ll only approve the day of the exam. Meanwhile, he’s trying to find a date that suits everyone for our holiday dinner. I don’t want to go through what happened last year, so the sooner he makes the reservations the better.

  37. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

    After I get my grad degree, I’m planning to freelance and travel for a bit (look up “digital nomad” if you’re not familiar with this) while I look for a permanent job. On my resume/in my cover letter where it might come up, what should I say about my location? I’m open to moving to multiple countries, so if there were an in-person interview I’d almost definitely have to travel anyway.

    Options:

    1. My parents’ address in the US. I’ve moved a lot and used their address in the past, but I won’t be there at all (and am mostly not planning to apply for jobs in the US unless I find something really fabulous). (They’re trustworthy people, and boundaries aren’t an issue.)

    2. My apartment here in the UK. Would love to get rid of it (and not pay rent) after I graduate, but I do have a few months grace period for my visa and could keep it for a few months as my home base instead of my parents’ place.

    3. Just change my location for every new place I go, so if I spend 2 months in (e.g.)Thailand then be open about being in Thailand, and then switch to saying I’m in Vietnam when I get to Vietnam.

    Not an issue right now, but it will be in under a year and I’m trying to plan for it, so I’m asking it now.

    1. Mela*

      It’s becoming more and more common for people to leave off the address altogether, so that’s always a valid option. (And your best overall one, I think)

      If you’re living in the country you’re applying to, and have no other connections in, an address can help establish you as an existing presence.

      Assuming these freelance jobs you’re applying for are remote, they probably won’t care about your location anyways. But they might, and leaving the address off can get you a phone screen whereas if your address was on the resume, you might have been screened out.

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        The permanent jobs I’d be applying for aren’t freelance. I’ll just be freelancing for short-term money.

      2. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        Oops, hit enter too soon. It seems like a resume would look really weird without the address at the top. Anyone have any links to templates without addresses so I can look at them and see if I can find one that doesn’t look weird?

        1. KatieKate*

          I have never used an address in my resume. I currently have my name, email, and phone number in the upper right hand corner, and the rest of the resume left justified. It looks fine!

          1. Elizabeth West*

            I don’t use one either. All I have is the city–but then you’d have to pick one. I suppose you could do what KatieKate does and leave that off too, especially since you’re flexible as to location.

        3. Loz*

          Agencies remove all details anyway before passing them on, presumably to avoid direct contact or something so I’ve literally never seen a resume with contact details. I assume the agency has established that the candidate is available in the way we need.

    2. Snark*

      “look up “digital nomad” if you’re not familiar with this”

      A word of caution: a few very high-profile, successful bloggers have made this a Big Thing, and that’s great for them, but I’ve known three people who tried to do it and ended up in major financial difficulty and stuck borrowing money so they could leave the country they were marooned in.

      As far as resumes and cover letters, I’d give a permanent address – your parents’ would do nicely – and note that you are currently temporarily living abroad and open to relocation.

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        I’ve been researching it for a long time and have also been freelancing for a long time, so I have a good sense of what I can make in a week/month/whatever and therefore what my budget would be. Which isn’t to say that there’s no chance I’ll have problems, of course, but I’m not just doing it on a whim or anything.

      2. Fake old Converse shoes*

        I second this. Also, don’t forget to add in your profile the language(s) you speak and a proficiency level. This year I interviewed someone who claimed to have close to native English speaking and writing skills for a position that doesn’t need it. Not only he spoke with an accent so thick that I found myself trying lip-reading, but he also insisted that it was everything he needed to know to get a job in any country. Apparently he was following the advice of a US Youtube channel.

    3. Middle School Teacher*

      I don’t have anything to suggest, but I just wanted to say that I hope things are going better for you (I remember your post from last weekend).

    4. Sunflower*

      I would just put ‘Relocating to X’ wherever the perm job you’re applying for is. If you don’t have a local address, then it’s not worth putting any real address on there IMO.

    5. Reba*

      yep, just leave it off!

      My spouse was applying for jobs while we were abroad last year for my degree. No physical addresses, in the cover letters he would say “I’m currently freelancing from X Country, and I will be relocating by Y Date”. It was mainly relevant so they’d know that in-person interviews would not be happening any time soon.

      It sure sounds like you could use a change of scene. Good luck sorting out your next move(s)!

  38. Mela*

    Is there any way for an employee to opt out of health insurance without other coverage, assuming they’re not legally required to hold coverage according to IRS/ACA regulations?

    Background:
    My husband works for US companies while living abroad. He is classified as a worker in the state we have residence in, but the work isn’t performed in that state. The company he currently works for does not offer medical benefits, and because of his residency status, he is exempt from the insurance requirements.

    He is in the process of transitioning to a new position at a company that is big enough that federal law requires them to provide healthcare coverage to their employees. Most of the premium is covered by the employer, but there is a $75/month deduction. He is very unlikely to ever use this coverage, and it’s nearly $1,000/year, so if possible, we’re hoping he has the option of opting out.

    Note: I know that this is a legally gray set-up, but I’m not looking for warnings about liabilities, taxes, or other issues with this arrangement. I’ve got it covered, promise ;-)

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I would have him ask his workplace about it. They may not want him to opt out (usually the more employees you have on insurance as an employer, the better a bargaining position you have with insurance companies).

      1. Mela*

        Yea, he will before accepting the offer. I just wanted him to have background information before bringing it up.

    2. STG*

      I’ve opted out of insurance without any sort of issues. I didn’t have to prove I had any other coverage. It was wholly my choice. This was before the ACA though so I have no idea how that works when it comes to the mandate. I’m fairly certain that you shouldn’t have an issue though. All the forms I fill out yearly have a spot to decline coverage.

    3. TCO*

      In general in the U.S., a company may be required to offer insurance but employees are not required to actually take them up on that offer. You’re saying that the company is “required to provide” insurance but the more precise term would be “required to make insurance available for workers who want it.” It’s not the employer’s responsibility to make sure their employees actually purchase coverage–individuals are the ones held responsible for actually ensuring they have coverage.

      Employees may opt out for all sorts of reasons (for instance, being covered by another family member’s plan) so it should be very routine for him to decline coverage. Employers are not required to ask why the individual is declining coverage and it would be weird if they did.

      There might be some exceptions I’m not aware of in unions, etc. where people are automatically enrolled in insurance.

      Nothing about this is a legal gray area. I know you’ve said you’re all confident about the tax penalties you may incur and stuff, but given that you’re a little misinformed about how employer coverage works I’d encourage you to double-check your facts about the tax implications. I don’t mean that in a condescending way, so I hope it doesn’t come across as that. Your question just suggests that you’re still learning about health insurance mandates and it’s very easy to get bad information.

      1. Mela*

        Thanks for your reply! Your first paragraph was my understanding of the legal requirements, I’m just not sure how it plays out in an actual employee/employer situation.

        I’ve worked at one job in the US that offered health insurance, and I had to provide proof of my other coverage (through my parents) before I was allowed to decline theirs. So that was what led my thinking on this being a potential issue. But now that I think about it, that was in California and it very well might have been a California-specific requirement. He’s never had employer-provided insurance, so that’s our only data point.

        The legal gray area I was referring to was working for a US company while living abroad. Every time I mention that set-up on here, I seem to get a flurry of responses warning me about taxes and labour laws and a whole bunch of other stuff I’m well aware of and/or are non-issues.

        Oh, and I work in public health so I’m definitely not still learning about the mandates! Our expat/non-residence status means we’re exempt from the mandate and I’m very confident in that, the IRS requirements are very clear.

        1. TCO*

          That’s interesting that you were required to provide proof of other coverage. I do usually enroll in my employer’s insurance, but it’s always been presented as optional and I’ve never been asked to provide other proof of coverage. I wonder if (given that you work in public health) coverage was mandated by your employer for some kind of reason related to your line of work. I don’t know if that’s legal, but it might be…

        2. Alice*

          If the company is providing coverage for employees for free, they are required by the carrier to have 100% participation, so that mght be why they required proof of other coverage, or if you had initally enrolled and then wanted to drop, IRS rules require a “life event” such as gaining coverage in order to drop mid-year.

          1. Mela*

            Ah, okay that makes sense. It was an non-profit, so I doubt that was it, TCO. The employer did pay the entire premium and I got cash back for not using the plan, as CAA mentions below. I’m just glad this will will be a non-issue, thanks everyone!

            1. nonprofit director*

              The proof of other coverage was likely to get the cash back for not using the plan, not for declining their coverage. The proof was definitely not a California requirement.

        3. CAA*

          There’s no CA legal requirement to prove that you have other coverage. I’ve switched between my CA employer’s plan and my spouse’s plan multiple times as we’ve changed jobs both before and after the ACA implementation and I’ve only had to provide proof of coverage once.

          They may have asked you for proof because they get a better price if at least 80% of employees sign up for their plan, or if they’re giving you cash back for not using their plan.

    4. NoTurnover*

      I just set up health insurance for the small nonprofit I work for. We were required to have 75% of employees participating for our particular plan. We could drop below that 75% if people were waiving for “qualified” reasons (like being on a parent’s plan or Medicare). But others could opt out for no reason as long as at least 75% were participating.

  39. Etak*

    So my coworker, who was our grant writer, was just fired yesterday. Combo of her being fairly ineffective and us not really needing a full time grant writer. However I would love to get some grant writing experience and we just instituting a policy allowing much more money for staff professional development. When is it appropriate for me to go to my boss (who was the firing person for the grant writer) to ask about getting some experience? Should I go in with specific classes/workshops I’d like to take?

    1. Mela*

      I think you can ask about it now (with a soft emailing asking if you can talk). If she agrees to discuss, then yes come prepared with specifics but be prepared to not discuss them depending on how the conversation goes.

  40. A Nonny Mousse*

    So, my department is having its Christmas party and I wasn’t invited. I don’t work near them, but I work with them. It wasn’t just me not invited. And it totally sucks.

    1. Snark*

      I feel you. I’m a contractor working onsite at a client office, and in the past I’ve always been invited along to departmental events. This office almost never invites me to anything – including retirement parties, holiday parties, you name it. The weird thing is, they did, a few times, or someone was like, oh, you didn’t get invited to the happy hour? Let me send you the email! But then I kept getting left off the email list, and I got the hint. It’s annoying, and kinda lonely. I’m the only person who works for my employer who’s in this office, so I can’t go out with my actual colleagues.

      1. A Nonny Mousse*

        Since it’s more than just me, and we all know that we were omitted, we’re banding together to have our own thing instead. Having it be more than one person is easier, yet it still sucks.

      2. Specialk9*

        That was really common when I was a contractor. One especially unusually surprisingly decent client included me in their monthly birthday sing + cake, and I was incredibly touched. Contractors have the benefit of flexibility and the ability to get out if things get toxic, but people assume we make a lot more money than is reality, so a lot of low level resentment gets enacted against contractors.

    2. Kj*

      I got left out of the staff retreat at my last job. Not told about it until the day before, when I had already scheduled something that couldn’t be undone. I was not pleased. I was already planning to quit, but that sealed the deal.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      :(
      I worked near but not with another department at Exjob and they always asked me to join their potlucks or their cookouts. I think that’s only polite. [insert poo emoji here] on department.

      1. A Nonny Mousse*

        Department I work near is great about involving me in things. But since I’m not in their department, I didn’t expect an invitation to their holiday stuff.

    4. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      I am a one person “team”, who works with everyone else. So, yeah, everyone else in our IT Department is having team celebrations, luncheons, etc. So as my own “team outing”, I took myself to Sephora yesterday during lunch. It was glorious!

  41. EddieSherbert*

    They’re remodeling both of the women’s bathrooms at my work right now, which I’m thrilled about, because they basically had horror movie lighting – but I’m just wondering why we have to do them both at the same time?

    WHERE AM I SUPPOSED TO PEE, GUYS.

    (Answer: the one the guy currently isn’t in. So, he’s going to one and tearing off wallpaper. Then going to the other to tear wallpaper. Then going back to the one to paint. Then to the other one to paint. I’ve walked across the building so many times already…)

    1. anon24*

      Well that is frustrating.

      Reminds me of the time I worked as for a high security business that did federal contracting. I worked in the production department, and due to the high security we had to go through a metal detector to enter the work area. We weren’t allowed out of the work area except for lunch, and only supervisors had ID cards that would open the door. There were 2 bathrooms inside the production area, and they decided to gut them. For some reason they redid one, then the other, and then a week later ripped them both apart again (???). So when we needed to use the bathroom we’d have to use the lunch room bathrooms. Except for that little issue where we didn’t have the ability to leave to go to the lunch room on our own. It was super humiliating having to find a supervisor to let you out every time you had to use the bathroom, plus he had to stand at the door and watch on the security screen for you to come out of the bathroom so he could let you back in to production. That was a long month.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        Oh my gosh, that’s worse. Haha. One of the bathrooms is outside our “area” in the shared lounge space (think industrial building with dif wings rented out to dif companies), but as long as I bring my keycard, I’m fine!

        1. anon24*

          Oh, other fun work bathroom story. At last job the septic tank froze and blew out of the ground. Being a small branch of a big coorporation it took forever to get approval to fix it. And then since GM was a jerk and had previously PO’d the township they refused to issue the permits for awhile. So for 4 MONTHS we all got to use porta potties in the garage… in the middle of winter. It was disgusting

    2. Artemesia*

      Assuming there are two mens rooms I would have thought they would just reassign one during the remodel and inconvenience everyone slightly instead of the women in a big way.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        Don’t worry, the men had to do all the extra walking a few weeks ago (their bathrooms were remodeled first).

        … your plan is way better though…!

  42. Snark*

    I’m getting burned out on being the one to have the flexible schedule. Yes, I am salaried and exempt and can generally rearrange things. No, that does not mean I particularly want to be solely and routinely expected pick up the kid at my parents’ place 45 minutes away at 3:30 on Friday, take the kid to the doctor for his bimonthly ear infection, leave the house for 5-6 hours every Sunday so my wife can work at home uninterrupted, or have to do every single grocery, Home Depot, and Christmas shopping errand because, hey, Snark can leave half an hour early, it’d be so convenient for me! I still DO have actual, y’know, work to do, people, and it’d be sweet if I could occasionally do an errand of my own, or just take a quick hike on the way home from work.

    1. Language Student*

      Ugh, I really get this. My degree’s distance learning, so while I’m at home, it’s still full time study (plus volunteering, plus doing *all* the housework and the majority of various errands). But everyone seems to think I can help out with various errands which would basically require me taking at least half a day off, or even full days occasionally. Flexible schedule /= constantly available.

        1. Windchime*

          My mom calls my work at home day my “day off”. She’ll call me on a Friday and say, “Oh, today is your day off!” I reply, “Well, it’s my work at home day.” She’ll say, “Oh, yes. That’s what I meant. Work at home. (with verbal air quotes around ‘work at home’)”.

          I think a lot of people don’t really understand what working at home entails. Yes, I can throw in a load of laundry and sit on the sofa. No, I can’t watch your kids or do my grocery shopping in the middle of the day. Because I’m working. From home.

    2. La Revancha*

      Then work something out with your wife. Communication is key! It’s not fair to leave the burden on you.

      1. Snark*

        I mean, to the extent I can, I do, but she’s a consultant, and she’s often onsite at a client office giving a presentation or doing a seminar and she’s not as flexible as I theoretically can be.

        1. Yorick*

          You should definitely talk to her about the leaving the house so she can be productive while working from home. Y’all can probably come up with a better solution.

    3. Teapot Librarian*

      Pretty sure you’re just venting and not looking for solutions, but I have two ideas. Re: ear infections: that sounds miserable. Is it possible that there’s an underlying issue that the pediatrician hasn’t identified that is causing so many ear infections? Re: Sundays: can you switch off who leaves the house? You’d still be the one with childcare responsibility, but if she was working somewhere like a coffee shop or a library, you wouldn’t have to find activities to do with your son. (Obviously if she has a desktop computer or does a lot of videoconferencing, this wouldn’t work.)

      1. Snark*

        Unfortunately, yes, she does do a lot of

        The ear infections are getting less common, thankfully, but it seems like every time he gets a cold, that’s what results. The solution is for him to blow his nose rather than snork, but he’s the sort where if he’s doing some hardcore contemplation of garbage trucks or something, he’s not going to interrupt the flow state just to blow his nose.

        1. Snark*

          Derp. Unfortunately, yes, she does a lot of videoconferencing and presentations, so she uses a billboard-size iMac and can’t really haul that to a coffee shop.

        2. Ghost Town*

          Our son was getting a lot of ear infections, in conjunction with colds, etc, so we went the ear tubes route. I don’t know if he just aged out of the ear infections or if it was the tubes, but we have been blissfully ear infection free for about a year (knock on wood, hopefully I didn’t just jinx us!).

      1. Snark*

        Unfortunately, aside from Sundays, it’s all generally kind of impromptu stuff.

        Frankly, aside from times she’s actually on a call, what I really need my wife to get cool with is the fact that she will get interrupted if she’s working at home. Sunday is also my only day to do house maintenance and chores, most weeks, and I’m feeling like the expectation of 5 hours of perfect quiet is not compatible with having a three year old who wants to talk about all the things.

        1. TL -*

          No, that’s not reasonable. Can your wife look into a coworking situation for Sunday? or if there’s anywhere else to move the office (like putting it upstairs and keeping the kid downstairs) or anything like that?

          Especially if that’s your housework day, vacuums and machines need to run and kids need to be active and outside time is going to be more limited with winter.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      Commiseration! That was me for almost 10 years, doing all the things because of my flexible schedule. I finally put my foot down a few years ago about taking 3-4 days a week that my flexible schedule allows me to come home and exercise, while my husband makes the daycare/school run instead of me doing that 5 days a week (with no time to exercise).

      We’ll be renegotiating who does what once my new job’s schedule gets going, whenever I get that new job lined up.

    6. Ghost Town*

      Commiseration. My husband was finishing up his bachelors degree for the first 2.5 yrs of our son’s life (he’s now almost 3.5…). That and being salaried, not hourly, left me to be the primary parent and I still kinda am due to a few other situations. There was a lot of “can you run to… ?” and I’d end up taking our son with me. Often b/c I’d ask if he wanted me to take our son, so I stopped offering all the time and actually started saying things like “I’ll be back shortly and am leaving Son here.” Not sure I have actually gotten to the therapist recommended phrasing of “This errand will be so much quicker if I go by myself.”

      You know how you have to manage the expectation of your time for your work (answering emails at 9pm or not, etc); you may want to do something similar with your wife. Talk to her about it, let her know that you have some things that need your focused attention, and find ways to ensure that the errands are getting done but that neither one of you feel like you are being swamped.

      We’ve just started a whiteboard calendar w/our “extra” events on it, so we all know what’s going on and when to expect the other one. Also, since we both work for the same university, we usually touch base at least once a day via the chat system to coordinate picking up our son. Usually me, but if he doesn’t have anything after work and/or he offers, I let him.

    7. TotesMaGoats*

      I think all the advice is good. I think a conversation about how you are feeling is the way to go. I have to say I appreciate that my husband and I agreed that each of our jobs was equally as important so we share kid duty pretty equally. His has flexible hours. I can work from home when needed. However, his job location means I’m first contact because he can’t have a cell phone at work, on his person, (it’s locked in a protected vault thing) and due to changing assignments doesn’t have a desk phone. Just the other day we got the dreaded call from day care: projectile vomitting. I had a 10am I couldn’t miss. He was mid project. Grandpa did pick up. I made it home at lunch. (Kid was fine, stupid rules). I took the morning shift the next day and he took afternoon. Tag team effort.

      I hear your frustrations from a lot of my SAHM friends. That they never really get a break from their kids because staying home with kids isn’t working, really. (sarcasm font). I bluntly said to one that if you staying home is that important to your family for financial or other reasons then it’s just as important as the check providing job. It should be treated as a job and the other spouse bear the load when they get home. Friend was shocked at first but then agreed I was right.

  43. Bad Candidate*

    Question for a friend of mine. She works for a large non profit health system that’s based in the Midwest. She lives in NC and works remotely. She’s a full time W2 employee, but works 11/12 months/year. There’s been some concern with her role that there may be layoffs coming. Someone who got laid off recently wasn’t able to get unemployment because, as they were told in their denial, there were less than 4 employees in her state. The person in question, however, was not a full time employee, they were more supplemental or per diem. So the question is, was that person ineligible more because she wasn’t a full year round employee, or because it was a nonprofit with not that many employees in her state?

  44. AnnaleighUK*

    My flatmate had an interesting situation this week that I want to share with you guys – she’s a professional photographer and she does headshots for people. She did a bunch of really beautiful shots about six months ago for a lady who said they were great, gushed over how amazing they are and used them on all her professional profiles on social media etc.

    Now the lady wants her money back because she’s suddenly decided that she doesn’t like the headshots, apparently never liked them, also apparently never said she liked them, and seems to be trying to drag my flatmate’s reputation through the mud. Flatmate has saved all the correspondence from this client, which is a good thing, but client is threatening to sue if she doesn’t get her money back. And she’s said the headshots have ‘damaged’ her professional image.

    Flatmate is entirely baffled. Obviously she’s not going to give the client her money back because the client okayed the shots – flatmate doesn’t release photos to a client for use until the client approves the final images. Also I’m not sure what the client is trying to achieve by threatening to sue. If you okay something and pay for it and use it, you can’t really change your mind six months after you got it, can you?

    I’m quite glad I don’t work freelance!

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Nope, you can’t change your mind like that. Let this woman sue your flatmate. I am not a lawyer, but according to Judge Judy, the client ate the steak so she has to pay for the steak. Poor flatmate! That’s just needlessly stressful.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m assuming that, in addition to all the saved correspondence, your flatmate also has some kind of contract or agreement that both she and the client signed with some actual terms (e.g., you’re eligible / not eligible for a refund only if such-and-such criteria is met)? She can threaten a lawsuit all she wants. I don’t think she’s going to actually sue or have a legal leg to stand on.

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        Yep, as soon as you accept and sign the terms and conditions you get sent, you’re bound by them. Elsa did my headshots (not her real name btw) and the T&C’s document is long. It is effectively a contract. So this crazy lady has no leg to stand on because she signed it.

    3. Ella*

      I am betting that the client wants her money back at which point she will continue using the pictures for free.

      If the client starts interfering with your flatmate’s ability to get new clients, I think there’s steps your flatmate could take, but I’m not a lawyer (and I don’t think we’re in the same country based on your vocabulary) so I don’t want to elaborate as I’ll get something wrong.

      1. Slippy*

        Yeah, this. The client has probably already downloaded/copied all of the headshots and wants to save a few bucks.

      2. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        I swear I read about a similar situation in the US – Washington Post maybe? – about some high-profile social media couple who sued a freelance photographer (after accepting their photos from her) AND slandered her all over the internet/ruined her business. She hauled out contracts and emails and sued them and the court found in favor of her.

        I mean, how low can you go? But it has happened before, but I doubt this person has the cojones to take your flatmate to court if it ended up that far.

    4. Cube Ninja*

      I’d even go a step further and suggest having an attorney draft a cease & desist letter, assuming she has proper contracts, etc and a clear refund/reshoot policy. Let the lady sue if she’s going to, but constant contact and attempts to tarnish her professional reputation should be nipped right away.

      If she does actually sue, get an attorney to handle it. Try to get fees if it’s a totally frivolous complaint.

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        I replied to Anon Educator up there ^ Elsa has a document you have to sign to get your shots done, and her refund and reshoot policy is in there. She only reshoots if there’s a problem with the files or the client doesn’t like the photos and states this to her before accepting the final photos, of which there is another document you have to sign to say you accept the final images. This lady is cray-cray, as Elsa said this morning.

        1. Cube Ninja*

          Oh geez, I didn’t even register this is UK-based. That’s even easier, as I’m fairly confident your defamation laws are stricter than in the US. This should be a very easy thing to put down for good with the help of an attorney.

          1. Ramona Flowers*

            I am not a lawyer, but I don’t think this is an issue of defamation or libel. For that kind of thing to apply, your friend would need to have used or altered photos in a way that made her look bad.

            I’d say the issue is more about whether she fulfilled the contract and delivered an acceptable product. And as the customer accepted and paid for it, she’s not got much recourse – you can’t just decide you want your money back when you already considered and accepted the photos.

            2. Cube Ninja*

              Also not a lawyer (and OP’s friend should totally get one), but in this case, the client can’t very well use truth as a defense if she signed a document accepting the final proofs. Any competent judge (or attorney, or even layman) is going to ask why she didn’t object at the time and signed her acceptance of the photos. Honest opinion, perhaps, but again, it’s not a strong argument to say, months later, that you actually *aren’t* happy with the photos.

              If I’m the photog, I wouldn’t honestly pursue it beyond sending a C&D telling the client to knock it off, but I think it’s worth doing if the client is explicitly going out of her way to badmouth the reputation of the artist.

      2. WellRed*

        This was gonna be my suggestion. Nip it in the bud with a cease and desist. The lady probably just thinks your roommate will roll over, especially if she’s young or not super established as photog yet.

  45. Language Student*

    Potential pitfalls of setting up new systems that will allow volunteers to interact and share information/resources? I’m working on a system for the charity I’m with and for local professionals, but this is the first time I’ve done anything even remotely like this. I’m planning on having everything from logging on to creating posts and messaging people documented in a FAQ. I don’t expect there to be any problems, but I figure no one ever does expect problems, so is there anything I should be thinking of to prevent any issues, whether on the tech side or on the moderating side?

    1. Colette*

      Things to consider:
      Are you going to make people create accounts and log in? If so, is there a waiting period before they can post?
      How will people report abuse/harassment?
      How will you handle reports of abuse/harassment?
      What are the terms they will agree to before posting?

    3. Llama Wrangler*

      Is the goal of this system to share information that’s required to move work forward? Or is it more of a resource sharing system? If the former, the three major challenges I’ve encountered are:
      (1) Around timelags in posting (urgent items, things that don’t get seen and become irrelevant)
      (2) Sharing or not sharing information related to in-person interactions (something happens in a meeting — how does that information get shared out to the group and how)
      (3) People feeling like certain opinions dominate and they can’t speak up when they have a contrary opinion, which IMO is often a manifestation of in-person or out-of-system power and political dynamics and those a problem that effective moderation doesn’t eliminate (an anonymized example that will hopefully clarify: someone posts something that has a vaguely political connotation; a few people post in stronger support of that political statement; someone says “I disagree with this, but I don’t feel comfortable saying I disagree with it because everyone is in favor of it” even though no one has said the dissenting view is unwelcome).

  46. Gooseleaf*

    Anyone here have ADD/executive function disabilities and know good ways to keep organized at work? I was recently fired from a job I loved because I wasn’t learning fast enough/keeping my notes organized and I’m having some confidence issues trying to apply to new jobs in my field. I want to work on these issues so I can feel like a competent human and get back into my field. Any tips?

    1. Temperance*

      Check Captain Awkward! She has an awesome post about keeping it together when you have mental health issues/disabilities at work. I’m a bit too tied up to pull the link, but she’s awesome and it’s a great post.

      I also recommend talking to your therapist/psychiatrist about coping strategies. He or she knows you well and can probably offer specific instructions.

    2. Ella*

      Are you under a doctor’s care/had a conversation about meds? If your symptoms are severe enough that you’re getting fired, and if you have access to a doctor, I’d give them a call. This is not to recommend that you need to take meds; they may be able to suggest additional strategies (or therapies) as well.

      On the non-meds, personal route, I started keeping a bullet journal about a year ago and it’s been a really good system for keeping me organized in my life. Among other things, it encourages you to write down *everything* and then sort/categorize it later (that is, if you can’t just do it and cross it off the list). You just have to be careful because it can become a time suck of its own. Just be wary of instagram posts and such; there are some very arty bullet journalers out there, and that can turn off the non-arty crowd. My own bullet journal is very text based and has hardly any doodles.

      1. Arielle*

        100% seconded. Bullet journaling (and bullet journal style notetaking at work) has been amazing for me in terms of keeping things mentally organized.

    3. DCGirl*

      Yes, I do.

      I use a good old-fashion DayTimer to take notes and manage to-do lists. I take a lot of notes (to the point that people ask me why I take so many notes). I also have Word documents on my desktop where I can put important notes (i.e., I just added the names of who I need to ask about insurance issues and who I need to ask about state vendor registrations).

  47. Anonymous Today*

    Does anyone have advice for how to deal with depression at work, when work is at least partially causing that depression? At this point, I know that it’s hurting my work performance: I am not as energetic, efficient, or dynamic as I was when I first came here, I feel like a dull, chubbier, straw-haired photocopy of that person. Our head of department is incredibly toxic and he has either fired, laid off, or driven away several really talented people on our team. I am actively job searching, but have not had a lot of luck so far: my job function ‘changed to become standard with my title’ about a year ago after a re-org so I went from being a junior-level team member who happened to come on with an administrative title to a de-facto secretary trapped in a dead-end job. I think this is hurting my job search, because it’s hard to escape that kind of work when you start: employers don’t want to hire people with admin experience for non-admin roles. Almost everyone I was friendly with here has left, and I don’t have a lot of people I can speak with. My direct supervisor knows I am really unhappy here, but he has no control over my workload, and no power to advocate for me.

    In the meantime, I am worried about my professional reputation, and how people see me. I come across as short-tempered when I used to be sweet, and now I sometimes look like I am about to cry at my desk. I don’t push projects through our infuriatingly glacial bureaucracy as quickly as I should, because that requires tenacity and constant follow-up. How to people in bad work environments motivate themselves? Does anyone have any coping mechanisms, or advice (beyond seeing a therapist, which I am working on, but it’s a logistical nightmare as I live in a Midwestern city that does not have a lot of options).

    1. Courtney*

      Is the depression something that you think medication would help? I ask because I also had a very difficult time finding a therapist to see in my area, and my doctor was willing to write me a low-dose prescription of Zoloft in the meantime to help me pull through.

      1. Anonymous Today*

        Thanks for this, it’s definitely worth trying. My old GP prescribed anti-depressant and then called two days later in a panic to tell me NOT to take it because it would be harmful when combined with a medication I take for a blood disorder (a medication she had known about the entire time… one reason why she is my old GP).

        But, I have an appt with a new GP next month and can definitely ask if there other options for me.

    2. Marley*

      Have you gone to your doctor? An anti-depressent might help. A very low dose of zoloft was the only thing that helped post partum depression and got me functional at work again. I had had therapy before so knew techniques to help once the meds kicked in–the book “Feel Good” is a good option for at home learning about cognitive behavioral therapy techniques.

    3. Marley*

      I remembered too that depression can cause brain fog–I couldn’t think straight when I had PPD, and it was awful, and that might be part of why you say “mild ADD” as part of what you feel.

      1. Anonymous Today*

        I think that one was from Ginger’s post, but it sounds like we are going through something semi-similar, so it applies to me, too – thanks for your advice!

  48. Ella*

    I have two questions, now that I’ve been a manager for a whole week and a half.

    1. Is there a trick to making schedules for 20+ people that don’t make me feel like I’m playing Tetris with Jello? (My supervisor is helping me with this so I’m not entirely on my own here, but I would love resources or thoughts so I can get this close-to-right the first time and not make my reports feel jerked around by having to change a bunch of things.)

    2. How do you manage email and to-do lists when so much of your to-do list comes in through email?

    Thanks, peanut gallery. :)

    1. Lisa B*

      Welcome to the club! We don’t have jackets, the committee was too busy arguing over coffee and never approved the design.

      Do you use Outlook or Gmail? Do a search for Gmail and someone posed a similar question for email organization. You can use stars or labels for different categories – red star = must do today, blue star = from GrandBoss, purple star = Llama Project, etc.

      Outlook rules and filters are pretty good but I’ve found stuff gets buried too fast (“shoot, this is the Llama Project AND it’s from GrandBoss, what folder do I put it in?” I found an Outlook video series that basically recommended as FEW folders as possible. Everything comes in the Inbox. If I need to do something with it, I label it with one or multiple categories and put it in the “Action Needed” folder. If it’s an FYI or I don’t need to do anything, it goes in “Reference.” I also have a “Personal” folder that I can easily move if I ever leave this job but want to keep those e-mails. Every day I look for the “ASAP” category in the “Action Needed” folder, then do a sweep through the rest of the messages in there once or twice a week.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      1. Are these schedules, once set, going to stay until further notice? Or are these schedules going to change every week or every month? If it’s the former, no need to get fancy—a simple spreadsheet should do it.

      2. I usually just flag certain emails. If I can reply right away, I do. Otherwise, I just flag it with a star (in Gmail, there are other ways to flag messages in other email programs) to know to get back to it (it’s a to-do).

    3. beem*

      #2: If you can use Gmail, switch to Inbox (by Gmail.) You can create reminders which show up in your inbox. You can “mark as done” (archive, dismiss) them the same way you can with emails.

      If you’re stuck with Outlook, :(

    4. Teapot Librarian*

      1. I think there are apps that help with scheduling. This isn’t part of my job though so I don’t have any experience with them.
      2. I use a to-do list app that allows me to forward emails as tasks. I use Asana, but I think Trello and Wunderlist have this function too.

    5. ms-dos efx*

      Echoing the recommendation to use whatever flagging/starring system your email client has. I flag all emails that require action as they come in and check them repeatedly throughout the day to prioritize my workflow. I also write out a to-do list at the beginning of each week that includes everything I can think of that is outstanding and did not come to me via email, plus any major items from my email (it’s redundant, but it helps me plan out my time when I can see it all on one sheet).

    6. I actually love my job*

      @ella

      I have a staff of 8 part-time people. Our work day is split into two different shifts, 7 days a week. Take into account various time-off requests and actual vacations and the struggle is real. I evaluated a few online resources and wound up with Homebase (https://app.joinhomebase.com) It’s not perfect but it’s a huge improvement on the Excel spreadsheet from hell that I used to try to maintain.

      If you google “scheduling software” you’ll find sites with reveiws of various options. Many have free trials, as well.

      Good luck!

    7. Sabrina Spellman*

      I only manage schedules for six people, but I feel your pain. I’m also lucky in that I only have to schedule them once a semester.
      I utilize rules, folders, and tags in Outlook to make sure I get things done.

    8. SilverRadicand*

      I understand! I have a staff of 55 and it is like a 10 hr per week job just to make the schedule accommodate days off and still cover the bases (not to mention crosstraining etc!). Honestly, it’ll never be perfect, so go with good and make it better as you go on. Consider this schedule version 1.0; eventually (or maybe next week!) it will need changed or you’ll find a better way to do it. Don’t stress too much about it.The most important thing in my opinion is clear communication of when you have to change something and why it’s happening if it is unusual. We aim for fixed schedules, but there always a position/shift/location that has to be covered by someone. Communication is the key.
      When I Work has helped us as it lets us publish the schedule and folks can see it even if not at work and they can do time-off requests through it as well. Has made things much easier for us.

      For the email, I write down anything on a paper to-do list (my personal favorite method) anything that I don’t expect to get to today. Which ends up giving me a hybrid email to-dos and a paper list. It’s not an amazing method, but it works for me.

    9. LCL*

      Schedules. I’m still wearing my scheduler hat, so here goes. Figure out your constraints first.
      1. Define the terms of the schedule. What are the hours of operation-are you a 24/7 group, or bankers hours, or something in between?
      2. What hours are people allowed to work? Do you have a mix of full and part timers, none of the above, are different people restricted to different schedules?
      3. What time period does your schedule cover? one week, two weeks, month, 6 weeks? I’ve found it much easier to schedule by pay period. One of our schedules is two pay periods.

      I do mine in excel like this, without using the formula bar because it gets in the way and you want max display space on your monitor, formulas won’t help here.
      1. Using the auto date feature in excel, date vertically one column that is one whole schedule unit.
      2. Populate the first row at the top with people’s identifier, from left to right. Each person gets their own individual cell, which becomes their own individual column. List them in the way that makes the most sense for your group, whether that is alphabetical, by shift, by specialty. Tweak with the borders so it is easier to see the column breaks.
      3. Now you have a grid where you can fill in people’s hours, using whatever notation you choose. Copy and paste the notation from cell to cell as appropriate. Right click on the index cell at the bottom of the sheet, use the move or copy command to create several copies of your schedule sheet. ’cause making a new grid is a drag.
      4. Start playing! Start moving shifts, copying, pasting. Customize to your heart’s content-different fonts, different colors. It will become much clearer to you who can go where.
      Do-be willing to tweak and customize the display. Adjust the height of rows and width of columns so it is easy for you to read. Use the insert comment command to make notes attached to a cell that aren’t in the cell.
      Don’t-use the cut command to remove entries. Use Backspace, overwrite, or paste a blank cell into something you want gone. Cutting screws up your gridlines.

      Horizontal vs vertical display. Most schedules that I have seen where they are done by hand, the people’s names are written in a vertical column with the dates across the top. If you prefer this format, excel has a transpose command.

    10. Mimmy*

      Love the “playing Tetris with Jello” analogy – that’s probably how my supervisor feels when she’s making the weekly schedules! I may have to steal that line :)

  49. Erin*

    What’s up with hourly employees sometimes working eight hours a day with a half hour lunch, and other employees working eight and a half hours a day with a half hour lunch?

    Is there any rhyme or reason to how employers choose which of these options to go with? I’d think it would be mandatory one way or the other, but I’ve experienced both in my career so far.

    2. Kasia*

      In my experience the 8 hour with a half hour lunch, the employee is being paid for lunch. For 8.5 hours the employee is not being paid during lunch.

      I actually work 8 hours without a paid lunch so I actually only get paid for 7.5 hours every day!

      1. Erin*

        Ohhhh. I can’t believe I never realized that before. Interesting. So this means, employees like you are getting paid for 37.5 hours per week, and I’m getting paid for 40.

        If anyone else still wants to comment I’m curious what the norm is with other hourly employees.

        1. JeanB in NC*

          In almost all of my clerical-type jobs, I worked either 8-5 with an hour unpaid lunch or 8-4:30 with a half hour unpaid lunch. It’s only the most recent, higher-level jobs where I don’t have to deduct a lunch break.

      2. LadyKelvin*

        Not necessarily, I’ve never gotten a paid lunch. But I’ve gotten both 9 hours days with an hour unpaid lunch and 8.5 hour days with an unpaid half hour lunch. I’m surprised that people work 9 hours with a half hour unpaid lunch.

  50. Courtney*

    Yesterday I completed my big final project for my bachelor’s degree! It ended up being 60 pages long and my brain is so done with this semester.

    I have a fashion question for you guys – if you live in an area with tons of snow and ice in the winter, how do you handle footwear? As a college student obviously I just wear my boots to class, and I’m struggling a bit with figuring out my professional look as far as footwear goes (and I know my professional look matters, since I’m a young-looking 29 who will be teaching 18 year olds.) I know some people here just wear their snow boots to work and change when they get there, but I’m not sure if there will be a place to store them in the classroom I’ll be student teaching in. So I guess my question is two-fold:
    – Does anyone have a recommendation for work appropriate boots that can handle a bit of walking in the snow? (Nothing crazy, basically just walking out to my car and then into the school.)
    – Are boots and dress pants a weird combo? I’m having an awkward time figuring out how to pair them together. The go-to look I see online seems to be dresses with thick tights and knee-high boots, but I’m really not a dress person.

    Bonus points if the boots are comfortable – I have plantar fasciitis, which complicates things a bit.

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      I don’t think you need to worry about it that much. Find a good pair of snow boots and wear them. Bring something else to change into. Have a bag of some kind you can put them and store under a desk or along a wall. You don’t need to match your clothes to your snow boots.

      1. Courtney*

        Thanks for this – I have a tendency to over analyze small things…and yep, I think I’m doing that here. Probably because it’s easier to think about shoes than final exams.

      2. Alice*

        Or maybe, rather than a bag, a nice big patterned box? Maybe the kind that can fold up when you’re not using it. I just feel like a box looks more sturdy and “this is part of the furniture,” while a bag looks like it’s not intended to sit in one place forever.
        Signed, your companion in over-analyzing small things.

    2. EMM*

      I have the Target knockoff version of LL Bean’s Bean Boots and love them. I basically only use them for what you describe–walking to my car and then into work, and changing into flats once I’m inside

    3. rosiebyanyothername*

      I have a pair of Chelsea boot-style Doc Martens that do great in snow/ice and still look very professional with nice black pants. They can be pricey but I bought mine secondhand off Poshmark for half price, and Doc Martens are basically indestructible. I’m not a teacher so I’m not as familiar with teacher dress codes/standards, but I wear them to my office job all the time!

    4. Middle School Teacher*

      Rieker is a good brand. I’m lucky enough to have a space where I can leave indoor shoes but I usually bring them in a bag and change at work. No issues with boots and dress pants; plus, if you’re in a snowy place, everyone does it. We’re used to it :)

    5. HannahS*

      I’m in Canada. People here tend to wear industrial-strength snow boots to commute and change at work. If you’re a student teacher, I’d expect that you’ll hand your coat wherever the other teachers hang theirs, and there will presumably be somewhere for you to leave your boots on a mat or at worst in a bag on the floor.

      1. Llama Wrangler*

        I do what other people have done and keep a pair of shoes under my desk to put on when I wear my snow boots. I highly recommend Bogs for fashionable, professional-looking, water-proof leather for in-between weather (rain but not snow, or when there’s an inch or two of snow but not enough to necessitate snow boots.)

        1. HannahS*

          Hm, I’ve never heard of them! Will have to check them out. I’ve heard good things about La Canadienne, and I love my own pair of Blondos for the current weather, but they weren’t cheap.

          1. Llama Wrangler*

            HannahS, I did not mean to reply directly to you! Sorry!

            To all, Bogs aren’t cheap, but for leather professional shoes they’re in the normal range ($100-$150), and they have a very generous and flexible return policy. But I love them most because they are very waterproof, sturdy, and look like normal work shoes.

    6. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I wear ankle boots with jeans/trousers all the time. Depending on the style it shouldn’t be a problem. I’ve even seen low boots referred to as “trouser boots”.

      In any case I don’t think wearing snow boots at work would be a huge deal anyway, unless you’re rocking 80s style moon boots with flourescent colors. Though that would be pretty cool. I wish I still had my old boots!

  51. KMB213*

    I’m looking for opinions from hiring managers for remote positions (though, of course, all opinions are welcome). I’m in the process of job-hunting, and several of the positions I’m applying for are either full time telework/remote positions or primarily telework/remote positions.

    I currently work a “regular” office job full time (I telecommute very rarely, maybe 6 times a year, and when there’s a reason for it, like a contractor will be at my house). I also work a part-time remote/telework position for extra money. I typically leave the part time position (styling for an online clothing company) off my resume because it’s not relevant to the type of work I’m applying for (administrative/office management/contract management). However, though the work itself isn’t particularly relevant, I’m wondering if I should include it when applying for remote positions, just to show that I have experience in working remotely (I’ve been doing it about 18 months, so not a super long time, but it’s not something new for me, either). Any opinions on this? Would it be something to mention in the cover letter, but leave off my resume? Something to mention should I reach the interview stage? Something to add to my resume?

    TIA for any advice!

    1. Mela*

      I vote for cover letter, using it to explain that you know you love telecommuting and you’re looking for another remote position for your fulltime gig. Even if companies are specifically looking for remote workers, it is a plus if you have a track record.

    2. Fortitude Jones*

      Okay, how do you juggle the remote stylist job with your day job? I want to do this so badly with something like StitchFix or Trunk Club, but since I just switched careers, I’m not sure it would be a good idea logistically. Do you mind me asking how you got the job, how often you work, and whether you think it would be feasible to do the remote telework styling job with a full-time job that sometimes requires late nights? (It doesn’t happen often, but there are production days where I may end up staying until 8pm trying to get a proposal shipped.)

      1. KMB213*

        I am very late to reply – I hope you see this!

        I’m with Stitch Fix – I got the job just by applying (they only hire in certain states; you can find the listings on their website). It took a really long time to hear back after I applied, but, once I did, the process from in-person interview to being hired to training moved really quickly. If I’m remembering correctly, there was no phone or Skype interview following the in-person interview, but there was a sort of brief questionnaire.

        Honestly, it’s sometimes difficult to fit in the hours. Stylists must work 15 hours a week (sometimes there are flex down weeks, but 15 hours is the norm). The nice thing is that, though we are required to fill in a schedule, we’re not required to put the times we plan to work on the schedule, just the number of hours we’re planning on working each day. And, occasional deviations from the schedule are OK if something comes up (for example, working significantly later than expected at your primary job). It’s definitely feasible to do the job with a full time job that sometimes requires last night, though, it’s just tiring sometimes.

  52. AnonToday*

    I have posted before, probably under a different name, about how I am currently doing a sixth month management detail. I am a little over halfway through and I have decided this is not for me. I am exhausted all the time, it is bad for my introvert tendencies and I feel like I am no longer really doing the work I went to school for (I am also not eligible for OT which means I am earning less too). I declined to apply for the full position a couple weeks ago. I still have to go to these meetings where they talk about how badly they need managers and to encourage people to apply and I know they aren’t happy with me for wanting to just end the detail and go back to old job (I am doing a good job as a manager, I am just not happy).

    Any advice for this situation? I just want to get out of this situation in a couple months without causing a huge stink. I only committed to six months and I intend to fulfill that commitment, but I don’t think I owe more than that.

    1. LCL*

      If you are definitely decided, tell them that it was a wonderful opportunity for professional growth and you learned a lot and what you learned will help you function in your old position. And you learned that managing was not for you.

    2. Nacho*

      If you’re earning less than you used to (or even less per hour), would it make sense to bring that up and ask for a salary that would, in your mind, justify the issues you have with the position?

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        It sounds like it’s not just an issue with the salary though – AnonToday seems like she doesn’t like managing period and no amount of money would change that long-term.

      2. AnonToday*

        Without getting into too much detail so I don’t dox myself, the position is not the kind of one where salary is negotiable.

  53. STG*

    So, started a new job a month ago with state government in IT. Boss is very hands-off and hasn’t really seemed to have any sort of training plan in place. I’m learning little bits and pieces of things from coworkers but everything is running pretty smoothly. So, I haven’t really had a chance to get my hands dirty.

    I’m driving myself nuts with nothing to do and very little direction. I think it’s probably because it’s a new position and I’m not really being involved with some of the heavier projects just yet. Is a lot of downtime concerning for a new job?

    1. Sollux Captor*

      Just my 2 cents: I work in IT in government too, and it took about 2 months for me to really get my hands dirty, as you say. Those first two months were entirely training (by watching others, mostly, no official training). I also was given little direction, so I just asked the coworker whose job is most similar to mine if I could shadow her while she worked – it was dull at times, but helpful. I’m now 6 months in and have been handed a few big projects. Based on my experience, I think a lot of downtime probably isn’t that concerning. Is there anything you can do to fill the time – read up on documentation, things like that?

    2. Slippy*

      A good way to get your hands dirty and do something that needs to be done is to make sure you have a reflection of your production environment on your test network. If what you have on test doesn’t mirror prod then that becomes your new mission. It will allow you to learn how things are set up and working (or not) in production with the safety net of being in a testing environment. It may also give you the chance to be the hero if something goes down in production and you can just re-IP/migrate a test server to cover.

    3. Half-Caf Latte*

      My dad does IT for the federal government, and spent months doing nothing, so it sounds normal to me!

      Now there’s a new guy who doesn’t have full security clearances yet so he just kinda hangs around Dad and watches him. Coworkers have started calling them Statler and Waldorf, to which my dad replied that he expects to see his cube decked out in red velvet.

  54. SunshineSnickers*

    Long-time lurker here looking for a little encouragement :)
    I don’t hate my job but I don’t love it either and the money is just okay. So I’ve been applying for a new job for a few months now and I’ve had a handful of interviews but nothing has panned out. I had another interview earlier this week and prior to this, the company was super prompt about getting back to me but now I suspect they’ve just ghosted me.
    I just feel like shit about this whole process and I can’t shake the thought that I’m just doomed to either languish at my current job or only get something new if someone takes pity on me.
    How do you guys stay in a healthy place mentally when job searching?

    1. Murphy*

      I don’t! I hate job searching. It is the worst.

      During my last job search, I was super motivated to get out. (I had been trying on and off for a while, but after getting passed over for promotion, I said “I am getting the hell out of here.”) So that really kept me going rather than getting tired of it and giving it up. For me, talking about it was hard, so I didn’t tell many people that I was looking, and I set boundaries, even with my husband, that he wasn’t allowed to ask about it and I would tell him about anything interesting. I had a schedule for looking/filling out applications, which helped me to only think about it during that time.

      Sorry I can’t be more helpful. It is really discouraging, I know. Good luck!

    2. Marley*

      As much self-care as you can manage. Do something nice for yourself after an interview, whether you get it or not.

      And, when you don’t get the job, remember it’s not you, it’s just that there was someone better suited for the position, that’s all. Thanks to my reading here, i was able to break off some negative self-talk in my recent job search.

    3. [insert witty user name here]*

      Job searching is haaaaaaarrrrdddd so try to remember to focus on being thankful that you’re not doing it while unemployed. So remember that overall, you’re in a good position! You don’t NEED a new job – so keep that in your mind. Think of a new job as a nice bonus but that if you are rejected or ghosted, it’s not the end of the world. Things can change so quickly so while it seems like you’re doomed to stay where you are forever, think of it as just treading water until the RIGHT position opens up.

    4. Fortitude Jones*

      How do you guys stay in a healthy place mentally when job searching?

      I had to take breaks during my last job search. If that meant lounging around in PJs and binge watching shows on Netflix, so be it. I also shopped and made time to go to the salon and spa for hair appointments and eyebrow waxes, anything that would essentially feed my soul or just make me feel good about myself. Discussing my progress or lack thereof with my therapist also helped. Job searching, and the inevitable rejections and ghosting that comes with it, is hard, so I recommend you make time for self-care while looking.

  55. MLiz*

    Current situation with my smoking officemate. I don’t really want advice, I need to vent.

    Now that it’s getting very cold outside, of course the open window all day isn’t an option. For a few weeks we’ve had a passive-aggressive standoff, because he would close the door to the office. Which meant no circulating air. Which meant the smoke and perfume smell (he wears a LOT) was getting even worse, until at point I said, “Officemate, do you know why the door is open? Because the smell of cigarettes is giving me headaches, and it’s driving me nuts. I can’t forbid you to smoke, of course, but since neither you nor I want to freeze our fingers off by keeping the window open all day, I NEED you to keep the door open.”

    He agreed, very reluctantly. I get it, with the door open the heat escapes, I’m also not happy about it for environmental reasons. But work won’t provide anything to clean the air (anything electric is out, I’ve brought in bicarbonate and the one or two essential oils I can stomach without getting migraines), this is the only thing that sort of works. Yeah, I’m super sensitive and I can’t suppress the grimace I make if I get to the office after he’s been in there for an hour with the door closed (which he does whenever I’m not around, which I guess is fine), but he’s not doing anything at all to make it less bad like putting his jacket in the closed closet provided for jackets or washing his hands after, so I’ve decided he will have to deal.

    It doesn’t help that he’s super condescending towards everyone; I’m not sure if it’s only women because the department is very female-dominated and I rarely see/hear him interacting with men. And while this is entirely my problem, it really gets my back up that he speaks like he’s been doing this job for twenty years when he’s barely a year out of grad school for a semi-related field and lacks any real-world experience on the topic. This, admittedly, doesn’t help with the smell thing I guess. Again, entirely my problem.

    He just changed teams (after only a few weeks with the company), so I have some hope that I will be sitting elsewhere before long.

    1. Kasia*

      If you don’t move to another location I have a suggestion- I bought an air filter that would work wonders for you. It’s fragrance free and just filters out bad smells. I got it off amazon and the filters last about 3 months!

      1. MLiz*

        But it’s electric, right? :/ Sadly that’s a no-go. At least until I figure out who I have to make friends with to get it approved. (My manager would not care, but campus management says no private electronics that have not been tested by experts on site for safety reasons.) Once I make friends with whoever tests these things they can probably give me a sticker.

        Otherwise yes, this was already my thinking.

        1. TL -*

          Any chance HR would be sympathetic if you started making noises about medical needs? I’m allergic to cigarette smoke and I get pretty firm with people on not smelling like smoke around me – I go from headaches to sneezing to constantly stuffed up pretty quickly with continued exposure so just say “allergy.” (though usually smokers are pretty considerate about that once I tell them.)

    2. KR*

      I used to work with a smoker and while I got pretty used to the smell and I’m not sensitive like you, there were days where he would just reek of cigarettes and I wanted to not be there at all. We had an air purifier but it was one of those things that makes it’s own ozone layer or something and is mainly meant to make dust not float around in the air, not manage smells. I’m sorry, this sounds like a major pain.

      1. MLiz*

        We’re a work campus that also has a research facility attached, I think if we created something like an ozone layer outside the copy room we’d get our crash alarms….often. ^^;

        I had to step backwards out of the room a couple of times after coming in.

    3. KatieKate*

      Would you be able to get a doctor’s note for your sensitivity? I hate to recommend asking for something like that, but it might be the only way to get your office to move you.

      1. MLiz*

        I would feel pretty silly going to the doctor’s for that. After all, I take public transport and no one (almost no one) adheres to the smoking areas. I’ve accosted many a man about that, actually, to very little effect but while it’s scary as hell it made me feel better at least. I’m also not in the US, so there’s not really something like formal accommodation and it’s not a disability to be sensitive to smell after all. Usually between colleagues I would expect to work something out (I’ve worked even physically closer with smokers before without any issues, I know it’s possible).

        I’ve never actually vomited from the smell (it was close a few times) and there’s just no space to move one of us unless someone else switches offices with either of us. Which may or may not be feasible depending on how things work out with his new team.

    4. STG*

      As an ex-smoker, he may not realize it’s as bad as you say. I used to kind of roll my eyes when someone complained about the smell. I quit about 3+ years ago and I never understood how bad it really was until I quit. Pulling the winter coats out the first winter after quitting was a quick lesson.

      Not that it really helps with your situation but another perspective. Good luck!

      1. MLiz*

        Thanks for your comment. I guess he doesn’t, and I truly believe that! His receptors are probably completely burned out (pun not intended).

        It’s just so frustrating, especially now that the air is either dry from the heater or cold and wet from the wet clothes everyone is trying to dry out. It’s like a layer.

    5. Menacia*

      Could you even use a fan (pointed in his direction) to at least circulate the fetid air away from you? Even if it’s a small one?

      1. MLiz*

        See above, no electric things for now, not even with a USB plug. I can maybe try to find one that has a battery, but those are not super common in winter where we are (amazon might have one..). Good call! Thanks!

    6. Grits McGee*

      Wow, were it not for the most minute of details, I would wonder if you were working in my former department. My coworkers deal with the smell, and the obnoxiousness, and the mansplaining by waging ceaseless prank campaign, but that’s probably not an AAM-approved approach. ;)

      1. MLiz*

        I think my manager would be very very pissed if we started pranking. ;) And I’m the only one affected.

    7. zora*

      Can you just ask about moving to a new location? Or maybe if you ask it will trigger them to move him sooner? I honestly would be much pushier about this than you are.

      Also, you could try activated charcoal instead of just bicarbonate? I have used it in my fridge that has weird airflow problems and it’s amazing. I bought a couple “Activated Charcoal Air Freshener Bags” they were on Amazon, but I’ve seen them in closet supply sections, like with cedar, etc. It won’t exactly solve the problem of cigarette smoke (ughhh so gross) but it might help a little.

      1. MLiz*

        The reason I’m not saying more is because I’ve been with the company less than a year myself and I’d like to get my contract renewed when it’s up, so I’m trying not to stir the pot too much. It might be construed about not being a team player and not being willing to make concessions. I’ve talked to my manager about the headaches (probably not straight forward enough), but nothing can be done. We also are very tight on space and already don’t have enough offices, which might be part of it as well.

        Activated charcoal is an excellent idea, thanks!

    8. AJ*

      A few things –

      – You need to vent because you need A vent! LOL

      – I personally like your approach of not trying to stir the pot too much. Think about it like this – since he is the smoker and physically can’t realize how bad the smell is right now, he thinks you’re the crazy one. Meanwhile you are sensitive and have to smell it all day and are physicaly unable to NOT smell the smell. You think he is the crazy one. You are essentially having the same problem – what they hell is she/he talking about and why won’t she stop talking about it/why won’t he do something about it??? Also, anyone who doesn’t have to share such close quarters with him may not fully understand how bad it is, and you don’t want others thinking you are hard to work with – “I don’t like cigarettes either, but wow she really made a big deal about that”

      – If he is condescending to others like you said, chances are your manager/boss knows that (or at least had some inkling) and you will be seen as mature and tolerant if you can get through this situation amicably.

      – Had he had to share an office before? Maybe he’s feeling threatened by your requests, or maybe he’s never had anyone make such requests of him (change is scary!)

      – It is NOT unreasonable to want/expect/ask him to keep his coat in the closet! I really can’t believe he doesn’t! Is it possible is not doing so to make a statement/not give in? (UGH) Is it possible he is applying said perfume/cologne after he smokes, thinking he is doing a good job covering up the cigarette smell?

      – Out of the box idea here – you know those cooling/heating neck scarf things that are filled with gel or rice? What if you fashioned something similar but filled it with activated charcoal? Or maybe alternate with pulled-apart cotton balls or other stuffing and charcoal so it stays flexible. Activated charcoal is actually pretty light, so you might not need stuffing. Get some fun colored nylon tights and cut the legs off – knot one end of one leg and fill! You could prop said charcoal-neck-snake on top of a regular scarf so it sits as close as possible to your face.

      – Can you attach a small USB fan to a portable back-up cell phone battery? Would that violate the policy? Would it be worth risking a USB fan connected to your computer that you take out and hide every time you leave?

      – Strong flavored candies – red hots, war heads, cinnamon, peppermint, ginger – to distract you when it gets really bad?

      ***Remember, anything you use scent/taste wise (you said a few essential oils worked OK) is always going to remind you of this guy if you use it regularly. So don’t ruin any of your favorite things!

    9. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      On the poo thread a week or so ago people mentioned something called a Bad Air sponge (or similar) that might work. As far as I can tell it’s just a gizmo that you open and put in the room and it’s supposed to absorb smells.

      I have also used bowls of plain vinegar with some effect. Of course you then have the smell of vinegar but it goes away pretty quickly. I left a fishbowl type vase with a few inches of vinegar in the living room when I knew I’d be away for a while and when I came back it didn’t smell musty and stale like it usually does when the heat is off so I think it helped. You could maybe use wide-mouth jars or something similar that is less likely to spill or have things dropped into it versus a bowl.

    10. Cromely*

      How about a bunch of spider plants? They’re known for filtering the air pretty well and they’re easy to take care of.

  56. Yay for Friday!*

    Just started low-paying job…too soon to start looking again? :

    After several months of being unemployed, I got a job. However, the salary is significantly less than similar positions at other organizations I applied to. My field, social services, does not pay well as it is but this position is under $30 K – very low even compared to other openings in the field. We have a steep wage tax in the city where my organization is so my annual take home will only be about $20,000. Financially I do not have much to fall back on, so I realized it would be unwise to stay unemployed and wait for a position with a better pay to come along, since I could not afford to go any longer without income. Unfortunately, I did not succeed in negotiating a higher salary so I am stuck with very meager paychecks. How soon is too soon to look for another job? I don’t want to be perceived as a job hopper, but I also am feeling frustrated when I get Indeed notifications about openings in my field that pay a better wage. Should I stick it out for three months? Six? A year? Or is it acceptable for me to start looking now? During my interview, they emphasized that there will be promotion opportunities available to me after a year or two. Is it worth staying around that long in hopes I get promoted?

    1. LKW*

      Start looking. Being employed is good, but being employed with a livable salary is better. They may have to learn the hard lesson that in order to retain talent, you have to pay for it. They’ve made you no promises and no guarantees. That raise could be pitiful.

      I remember I got a “promotion” and a raise at a job out of college. A whopping $1.50 an hour raise. And I was told I should be grateful that as a college graduate, I was making a little over $13K a year (it was 25 years ago but still, significantly lower than what most grads were making).

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Start looking. Being employed is good, but being employed with a livable salary is better. They may have to learn the hard lesson that in order to retain talent, you have to pay for it. They’ve made you no promises and no guarantees. That raise could be pitiful.

        All of this. My brother is the king of job searching once he gets a new job that pays lower than what he decided he can live off of. He’s also still early enough in his career where a little bit of job hopping is expected; however, I still think you can get away with job searching now because you were unemployed for awhile and can make the case to any potential employer that you needed to get a job STAT to survive (which anyone reasonable would understand) and your job search may end up taking longer than you think, so you could end up at this current gig for six months or more by the time you get a new job – you just never know.

    2. SophieChotek*

      I would start looking now. It might take awhile to find a new job. Provided you stay in the next job a reasonably amount of time, I think it is understandable that you left other position because salary was not commesurate with other positions in that field. It’s understandable you took a job, just to be employed. (Or at least, one would hope a reasonable person would understand that, especially if you next position is of longer duration.)

      1. Yay for Friday!*

        Should I include my current position on my resume, or should I leave it off? (I’ve only just begun, so I don’t have any accomplishments to speak of since I’m still in training).

        1. Effie, who is worth it*

          I would leave it off – you just started, as you said, and it’s not like having it on would help you get an interview.

        2. Fortitude Jones*

          In your case, I would leave it on with bullet points showing what your job duties are. Like it or not, it’s going to be much easier for you to get interviews if people know you already have a job. With that said, if your last position was recent and you hadn’t been unemployed long (less than six months), I’d agree you can leave it off.

          1. Yay for Friday*

            My previous position was eliminated at the end of September, so I’ve been unemployed a little over three months

  57. Liquor Store Lady*

    I have a question that I didn’t see anything for in the archives, but it’s a little out of Alison’s usual speciality I think.

    I work in a customer facing retail business in the suburb my mother used to live in, and as a result there are people who know both me and her by face and since she moved away, they periodically ask me how she is.

    She passed away last week. I’ve told everyone who knew and loved her in any medium I can so far, but these people are not her Facebook friends nor do I know their addresses. Would it be a bad idea the next time they ask me about her to tell them she passed away since it would be at work in public, or would this be an area where I could bend the rules to let them know?

    1. Snark*

      I think it’s probably fine to say something like, “Oh, she passed away last week, sadly,” but that opens you up to having to tell them the whole story and go into detail if they start pressing you for detail. I’d be armed with a quick “Y’know, I’d love to talk more about it, but it’s obviously a difficult topic, and I can’t dwell on it while I’m at work” kind of rejoinder so you’re not stuck processing it with them and getting teary.

      And, my condolences. Always rough to lose a parent.

      1. Murphy*

        I’m sorry for your loss.

        I agree with Snark. I think it’s fine to let them know (otherwise they’ll keep asking!) but I’d have a script available for exactly what you’re going to say, so you don’t have to talk about it more than you’re comfortable with. You can do it proactively, if you’re comfortable, or just wait until the next time they ask. I think either way is fine.

      2. Natalie*

        If there’s an obit or some other kind of online page with information (caring bridge or whatever that site is called), this would be a great place to direct them for more info.

    2. Reba*

      I don’t think it’s unprofessional or against the rules to tell someone the truth when they ask! Agree with Snark to be ready for people to not quite know how to handle it, though. I’m sorry for your loss.

  58. Cawfee Ninja*

    I’ve been out on FMLA for a couple weeks. My boss texted me last night to say he hopes I’m doing well, and the department is going out for our annual holiday lunch next week and they would like me to come. My boss is great, but I don’t know if I’m up for it. Should I go and how should I respond?

    1. Amber Rose*

      Respond with what you just said. “I’d like to go, but I’m not sure if I’m up for it. Can I let you know closer to the day?”

      Then you can sit and think about it, see how you feel. Whether you should go or not depends on whether you feel good about going.

    2. Lumen*

      I like Amber Rose’s answer to this. It sounds like your boss both wants you to be welcome at the luncheon but also understands you’re not completely well. That means you can be up front about it. Unless there’s a strict reason this would not work for the event, asking if you can have a ‘maybe’ RSVP and let them know closer to the day seems fair. I’m sure that your boss does not want you to force yourself to come if you’re not up for it. :)

  59. Collie*

    It’s been forever since I’ve commented, but since escaping my previous job in June, I’ve been happily employed (after a much-needed three-week break) in something that much better aligns with my career goals. My particular place of work is in a weird spot at the moment (our location will be closing within a year, with an interim in the works) and it’s unclear what that will mean for me going forward (and there’s some of the usual work drama), but overall, this is far better than Old Job.

    I pop in to AAM now and then (and recently sent in a question, even!) but I do miss the comment section, which I don’t have a lot of time for in New Job. Still, I wanted to say hello and give hope to folks who feel/are stuck. It took me two-and-a-half years, which isn’t too bad, but I know you can do it!

  60. Cassie*

    What is the funniest or weirdest out-of-context thing you’ve heard at work?

    Today I walked through the advertising department and a woman who was cropping photos loudly lamented “But I don’t WANT to cut Tony’s head off!”

    1. Amber Rose*

      There was the conversation about the time my supervisor grabbed a supplier rep’s nipple. I walked into the middle of that one.

      Or the discussion of… uh, actually, I think most of the weird conversations I walk into are too R-rated for this comments section. I don’t even know how to censor them. :/

    2. La Revancha*

      My boss says some ridiculously funny things sometimes. Some are work related, some aren’t:

      He uses his work phone as his main line, so anyone trying to reach him calls the office. I transferred him a phone call and he answers in his usual heavy southern accent “so how was the nipple ranch?”

      Recently he’s been working on getting a huge deal done and said “I’ve been whorin myself out tryin to get this deal done!”

      Another time, when talking about getting electronic signatures vs handwritten ones and which he prefers, “I don’t care if they sign it with their butt cheeks as long as it gets signed!”

    3. Murphy*

      I’m in an open office area near some offices. The guy in the office directly in front of my occasionally has some difficulties, so I’ll just hear “Oh shit” Or “Oh come on now” which is just funny to hear out of nowhere.

      Last year near Thanksgiving I heard, “I’m just so emotional right now, since it’s so close to turkey.”

      1. JeanB in NC*

        Since I started sharing an office, I’ve had to try to restrain myself from making comments like that! I would say “oh come on” and “why are you doing this me?!” a lot. However, I personally do not get emotional about turkey, but each to his/her own!

    4. strawberries and raspberries*

      One of my team members was telling me about a situation where she overheard a difficult client loudly complaining in our office, and she (my team member) said, “So I was like, ‘Let me put my pants on and I’ll deal with this'”, and I was like, WAIT WHY WEREN’T YOU WEARING PANTS?! and she said, “Oh wait, I should have started the story by saying I overheard her while I was in the bathroom changing my clothes before leaving for the day.”

    6. Anon for this*

      Overheard last week: “That’s why I’m making these Christmas sloths!”

      My work is full of gems like this.

    7. DrOfRockets*

      My late colleague (from Texas, go figure) said, “We’re gonna get that done if I have to hare-lip the governor.” Miss ya, D.

  61. ms-dos efx*

    Question for people who hire people:

    Suppose you received an application for a full-time position from someone who is currently employed and who is also a grad student in a relevant field. Would the fact that they are working on a relevant degree make you MORE or LESS inclined to interview them, and what factors would influence your decision?

    Alternatively, have any of you who have advanced degrees been successful in changing jobs before completing your degree, and what helped you do that?

    I am getting an MPA part-time at the state university where I work, while also trying to find work in a different department, but I haven’t been getting any interviews. I’m concerned that the fact that I am mid-program may be part of the problem, so I have taken to including the line “don’t worry—the program is part-time and all the classes occur outside of work hours!” in my cover letter. So far this hasn’t helped and I’m trying to figure out if I need a better strategy.

    1. Llama Wrangler*

      Do you have relevant experience, either from previous positions or applied experience from your degree program? I’ve been on both sides of this, and my tendency is to focus on experience and not degree. (With the caveat that I work in an education-related field where degrees are not legally required for the work.) A degree factors in as a plus, but I don’t pay a lot of attention to it if someone isn’t talking specifically about their relevant skills and experience from the degree.

      On the job-searching side of things, I switched jobs while doing a part-time degree program. I emphasized in my cover letter the ways my academic program strengthened skills that were relevant to the job (and gave examples of how I had already been applying them). I also had in my resume and email signature when my degree was anticipated to be done, which at the time I was job searching was 1-2 semesters from my application point.

      Others may disagree, but I don’t think you need to mention that the program is part-time. If people apply for a full-time job, I assume that they are available for full-time work.

      1. ms-dos efx*

        I do have relevant experience, though not a ton, and my current title would probably not lead you to believe that I do.

        I am looking to change fields from arts to sustainable community development, and to move into a more program-oriented role, but my current job requires a lot of technical and coordinative work that would be transferable. I have also gotten some program evaluation/statistical analysis experience in school, and will be taking GIS classes as part of my program to hopefully make up for work experiences I don’t have. Based on some old AAM articles I’m thinking of moving my education down to the bottom of my resume.

        Thank you for the response! Nice to know others have done it.

    2. Awkward Interviewee*

      I don’t hire, but I do work in higher ed. Could the hiring managers be concerned that you’re going to jump ship as soon as you finish your degree? (Unless it also means something else, in my experience MPA = master of public affairs or master of public administration. Many MPA grads plan to work in the public or nonprofit sector post-degree.) If you plan to stay longer than it takes to finish your MPA, I would make that clear in your cover letter.

      1. ms-dos efx*

        Thank you! I think this may be one issue that I hadn’t considered until recently. It is public admin, and my concentration is nonprofit management, so this could be part of the problem. I am open to staying at the university if I get into a department I like–but maybe I should be a little more explicit about that!

  62. Anon1*

    So I commented a few weeks ago that I reported a manager at my company for sexual harassment. My company took it seriously (way more seriously than I thought they would, to be honest) and launched an independent investigation. Throughout the process, some pretty damning information came out about the entire department. But it turns out that manager’s contract was expiring at the end of the year, along with the department head’s. They jumped ship for a competitor. While I’m happy to rid the company of some toxic people, it’s a major blow (the department head was offered a multi-year 8 figure deal to give an idea of how much of a major player he is in the industry). The saddest part is that a lot of junior employees who had spoken out against them during the investigation are following them to the next company. Abusers are really good at inspiring unwarranted loyalty. Happy that my company had its employees’ backs/I no longer have to work with some awful people, but not the most ideal update.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      The saddest part is that a lot of junior employees who had spoken out against them during the investigation are following them to the next company. Abusers are really good at inspiring unwarranted loyalty.

      That’s kind of messed up, but at least they know what they’re getting into now.

    2. Lumen*

      This sort of thing is infuriating – person sexually harasses and abuses others, but they’re a ‘major player’ and so they just move on to the next hunting ground with an 8-figure deal. Rinse, repeat, and more people end up hurt because they don’t matter as much as some ‘rock star’.

      *sets planet on fire, goes to Mars*

    3. LKW*

      Sometimes there is this notion of reciprocity: We both know you’re awful, I didn’t turn you in, proving my loyalty, what are you going to to do for me? The whole Hollywood Weinstein mess is a great example. He had women luring in other women for him, making excuses for him and dismissing complaints or actively blackballing people. In return, they get introductions to powerful people to get better jobs and so on an so on.

      That they managed to keep ahead of punishment for the time being is frustrating though.

    4. Chaordic One*

      It’s sad that so many low-level employees are following the harassers, but they probably feel like they really “have to” do so in order to advance in their careers. (Sort of like how Anita Hill followed Clarence Thomas, even though he was a jerk.) It’s not great, but it is understandable, although also disappointing.

  63. MadAtMe*

    I had 2 interviews yesterday with 2 VP’s and 2 Directors. It went great, and these were final interviews. The decision is between me and one other candidate, from what I’ve been told. I wrote thank-you emails this morning to each interviewer separately. After sending them, I found a typo in an email to one of the VP’s. I used the word “important” instead of “importance”, so the sentence structure is wrong. I knew exactly what I meant to say – I truly just fat fingered it. Logically, I know this won’t be a deal-breaker, but I’m so mad at myself!!! There’s no way to recall the email, because of the program I used. Should I sent a short note apologizing for the typo, to make it clear that I did catch my own mistake? I don’t want to appear neurotic, panicked, or to annoy her with additional email. I’m leaning towards letting it ride and praying she doesn’t notice and/or doesn’t think it’s a big deal.

    1. MadAtMe*

      Just realized I used “sent” instead of “send” in this post. I think I need to take a break from typing today. Ugh!

      1. Lisa B*

        Nooooo, don’t reply back to point out the typo. They’ll probably not even have noticed it- the brain tends to “fix” mistakes when someone reads over an e-mail, and lots of people just skim through e-mails to begin with.

    2. Courtney*

      I think your instinct here is the right one – try to let it go! It happens to everyone occasionally.

    3. Ann Cognito*

      I would let it go. They probably didn’t even notice, and if they did, any reasonable person isn’t going to care enough to make it a deal breaker if you’re an otherwise great candidate.

  64. New freelancer*

    I think I just got a new freelancing gig! I’ll get details on Monday, but everything seems good to go; I’ve passed all the steps in the application. This will be my first time doing real freelancing (I do some online teaching, but that’s not quite the same thing), so: What would you all advise that I know ahead of time? Keep at the back (or front?) of my mind? Ask about? Any advice?

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Congrats!

      If you haven’t already been told, make sure you understand the pay schedule–for example, the main company I’ve freelanced for pays us bimonthly, and we have to have our invoices in on X and Y dates each month (if we forget, we just add those on to the next invoice). Keep excellent records of what you’re owed and ALWAYS reconcile your records of what you’re owed with both what they say you’re owed and the eventual payment you receive. Also remember that you’re going to have to pay more in taxes on freelance earnings (assuming you’re in the US), so keep that in mind when budgeting.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Confirm things in writing, always. And read briefs immediately even if you don’t plan to start yet as it will look better if your questions come earlier. Good luck!

  65. MidwestRoads*

    Advice, please! I’m a legal assistant to 3 attorneys, and one of them’s elderly father passed away earlier this week (he was very ill and hadn’t been doing well). Our office is small (12 people) and I’m the newest employee — I started in February. I’m not sure what my coworkers’ plans are for the visitation/funeral, but is it appropriate for me to attend the visitation? I’d never met my boss’s father, but I like my boss very much and we have a good rapport, and I think it’d be a thoughtful gesture. (I don’t plan to attend the funeral.)

    (It might be worth mentioning that another coworker’s father-in-law passed away a few weeks ago, and several of the staff, including me, went to the visitation together to support our coworker. I’m posing this new question because I’m not sure if the protocols change when the person in mourning is the boss.)

    Thank you in advance for your input!

    1. Collie*

      In this case, I’d personally just do a card. Your presence at the wake has the potential to be distracting for the attorney, who may wish to manage her image even as she grieves. (That said, I don’t think it would be a total misstep to attend, either.)

      1. MidwestRoads*

        It’s a he, but I see your point. I think right now I’m going to see what my coworkers do and follow their lead — the visitation is Monday from 4-8 and if people go they’ll probably leave from work.

    2. Lisa B*

      It sounds like your group might have a precedence set, so I don’t think the attorney would be startled to see someone from work. I’m guessing that a few people are already talking about going to the visitation just as they did before, to support their co-worker. If the boss would rather people in the office NOT attend, they’ll probably send the message to someone to pass along. Ask around and you’ll probably get the feel for what plans are in place.

    3. DCGirl*

      I would go to the visitation. If you google “Always Go to the Funeral,” there’s a great NPR story about how little gestures like that mean so much to the other person.

      2. I should be studying*

        I would go as well, especially if you went to the other visitation a few weeks ago.

    4. MechanicalPencil*

      I was in a similar situation, and many of us in the department attended the funeral (I don’t recall a visitation). I figure you’re there to support the living even if you didn’t personally know the deceased.

  66. Anon for this*

    How do you job search when you have a weird job history and a non-linear narrative?

    I currently work in marketing, however, I have no degree in it. I have a niche performing arts degree that took me about 9 years to finish off and on after some pretty serious personal trauma and health issues. I finished that degree while working full time at my first big job. I sort of fell into marketing after a battlefield promotion at said job. I ended up being a marketing department of one – running marketing for an international company. I worked there for 2.5 years and did well, but the company was bought out and I had to move on. It was a very toxic job with a volatile boss, so I was happy to get out. However, it meant that I couldn’t use him as a reference, as he’s been known to torpedo other people’s references out of spite and things between us didn’t end well. I’ve since worked in marketing in other industries, but my experience has largely taken place in toxic environments. I’ve been sexually harassed, attacked, bullied…this list goes on. I’m currently in another toxic job (I was the person in last week’s thread whose coworkers made fun of her after surgery…) and I’m desperate to get out, but I’m just not getting interviews. When I’ve talked to other people about this, they’ve said that it’s because I don’t have a degree in the field (despite working in it for over 5 years now) and that my job history isn’t linear. They were also overwhelmed and confused by the variety of different responsibilities I was talking about in each position – normal when you’re working as a department of one, but unusual when you’re that new to marketing. They also said that the lack of a reference from my toxic places of work might be a problem. Honestly, I’m incredibly uncomfortable putting a potential employer in touch with the boss who harassed me, or the company where I was bullied every day. I don’t really know what to do.

    I don’t even really like marketing. It just ended up being the field in which I could make the best salary. I don’t particularly want to go back to school for several years to get a job in a field that I’m not altogether interested in. I’d much rather perform for a living, as that’s what I’ve trained for my whole life and the only thing I really love to do, but I do need a day job to support myself. It’s not like I’m a job hopper – I’ve had several longer stays at jobs. It’s just that I’ve had a lot of bad luck. I’ve managed to get myself out of a lot of scrapes, but I’d love to get into a situation where I don’t have to rescue myself from another toxic or abusive environment. Any help you all could give would be greatly appreciated.

    1. k.k*

      First of all, I’m sorry for all the crap you’ve had to put up with, and I’m sending all my good vibes your way.

      For your resume, I really don’t know if your degree is the issue. Many many many people work in fields very different from their degree. Outside of jobs like doctors and lawyers, the type of degree you have is no where near as important as your work history. I would focus on how you’re listing the job responsibilities on your resume, and carefully tailor it to each job you’re applying to. Instead of listing all the different duties you had for each job, just focus on the ones that directly align with the job you’re applying to. It’s always tempting to put everything on there, to give them a full idea of all the things you’re capable of, but you have to think of your resume as a marketing piece, not a full record of you job history. Focus on the aspects of your jobs that were similar to make it feel more cohesive. Even if you’ve worked in several different industries at seemingly very different companies, you can find some common threads from each job to tell a more linear story.

      I don’t have good advice about references (not an area I’m great at myself) so hopefully someone else has words of wisdom for that. I’m wishing you all the luck in your job hunt.

    2. SophieChotek*

      I feel like we have similar backgrounds. I am also in marketing/communications but have degrees in performing arts/theater. I agree that (technically) your degree should not be what is holding you back from getting interviews. (Although like you, I sometimes still wonder if mine does.)

      Having also worked as a dept. 1 of one, it is true that one’s tasks can be all over the map and be significantly more diversified than if one worked in a larger department. But perhaps you can tailor your resume and cover letter to the specific jobs and even if that means you don’t list every thing you did, it will present a more focused example of how your experience aligns with the job.

      For references – if truly a dept of one – that is hard. Did you have co-workers/peers in other departments that could be a reference as a peer (“I wasn’t the boss, but Anon was great about getting the reports/whatever done on time and I/my boss was always pleased with their work”) sort of thing?

      If not that – do you do any volunteering or something like that? Could eventually get a volunteer supervisor to be a reference? Could a former prof from your degree program be at least a personal reference?

    3. Kathenus*

      I work in a totally different field but also have a non-linear career path. I decided to embrace it, and proactively bring it up during interviews, by noting that earlier on in my career I identified skill sets that I wanted to acquire to help me achieve future career goals. And that I then set out actively to gain experiences in areas that gave me those skill sets, and that that background and experience base has made me a strong applicant because of x, y, and z. Good luck.

  67. Secret Santa*

    For a secret santa / names out of a hat gift exchange, how do you count it if you got something on sale? Can you count the regular price of the item, should you only count what you actually paid, or somewhere in between? It can take time to seek out a sale on an item and go get it, vs. just paying whatever price it costs at amazon. In the case I’m asking about, it would be an item specifically purchased for the interests of the recipient, not just “I got a case of candles 90% off and now I’m doling them out.”

    1. k.k*

      I would base it on the normal selling price. I see the price limits as a way to ensure that everyone is getting gifts of similar quality/value. If you get a great deal and then add extra to meet the price limit, others might feel like it’s unfair that their gift isn’t as good. It’s silly, but there are enough stories here that prove people will be silly and petty about this sort of thing.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes I second this. The MSRP was still $20 – you just were lucky and saved money when you got it for $10….

      2. Yorick*

        I agree with this, the point is to give something that’s worth about $20. I mean, if somehow you were able to buy something extravagant like a yacht for $19.99, it would still be an inappropriate gift.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          I agree. This is not a can of worms to open. If you can find a $20 for $5 call yourself lucky, buy it and wrap it. I would just make sure that the item had the quality of a $20 item, not a $5 item.

    2. Nacho*

      Count what you actually paid. The same goes for if you overspent on something that’s cheaper on Amazon. The spirit of the exchange is to spend $X on your partner, not spend as little as possible using sales.

  68. Alternative person*

    The company I currently work for has moved away from hiring trained Teapot people (I did Super Neat Teapot Training and the other FT staff have similar qualifications/experiences) in recent years in favour of student part-timers who receive no formal Teapot training. It’s been ridiculous because they won’t even let qualified Teapot people do niche specific seminars, instead hoping that 1. The trained people will do it off their own backs and 2. new staff can learn by osmosis.

    Fast forward to today, my boss moved a client away from me to an untrained person for the reason of I don’t do Funky Spouts, completely ignoring the fact that 1. I do do Funky Spouts, 2. This client has so many Teapot Handle issues that doing Funky Spouts is going to make the whole problem worse and 3. I’ve seen this person do Funky Spouts, the results are not great.

    Just urgh. Between this and a few other things, I’m worried that they’re planning on pushing me out, which well, I was planning on jumping ship within 18 months anyway but given how they treated an ex-co-worker, they might take the death by a thousand cuts approach which is just way too much stress for me. Plus, I’ve just been accepted for further training, part of which is job-based. I’d rather not have to change jobs then lean on the goodwill of a new place whilst I flail around getting my training done then potentially leave that job in a short space of time.

    I think I need to catch both the manager and the senior manager and talk it out but it’s hard to do without feeling like I’m whining about getting my toys taken away.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Try really hard to not let your thinking paint you into a corner.
      You can decide to let it go. But this means making a commitment to yourself that you will not dwell on it anymore.
      OR
      You can decide to follow up on this and ask the boss why Funky Spouts was taken away from you and is there anything you should be aware of. The hard part here is if the boss gives you a lame answer. But in my opinion the best way to ask about this is to use the least amount of words possible. The longer we talk the more whiny we sound. Brief questions sound more professional and less emotional. Don’t mention the other person, you are only inquiring about yourself. “Boss, I see I have been relieved of Funky Spouts. I wondered if I had missed something here.”

      To me, it sounds like this other person is being set up to fail with this client. If your company plays games like this and you say they do, the target of this game may not be you.

      1. Alternative person*

        Believe me when I say, they are not setting the co-worker up to fail.

        Think of it like this; Client hires my company to build a house. Company sets client up with a B rank Builder. B rank Builder does an okay job for a while but ends up leaving. Client is upset so the company tries to make it better by sending one of the company’s most skilled/experienced people (Me, A rank). I get there, realize that the builder had been cutting corners on the foundations which might not be a problem now, but will set them up for a world of difficultly in a few years. I try to keep building new floors, install wiring etc. but I also set about shoring up and making sure the foundations are up to par. Client complains that things aren’t moving fast enough. Manager, instead of explaining why the foundations are being shored up immediately capitulates and assigns an unqualified builder who builds up as fast as the system will move.

        My manager, to me is either being willfully ignorant of Unqualified Builder’s expertise (and don’t get me wrong, they’re not bad given they don’t have formal training but they’re in dire need of an experienced mentor) or they don’t care, they just want the client to be happy, which well, I get that, but in the end, the company is doing the clients a disservice by not telling them what they need. Additionally, the whole mess is part of a wider problem with the company that constantly accepts the absolute minimum standard and even aims for it, at the expense of actually doing a good job.

        I think you’re right, I need to both talk to the manager and stop dwelling on it. I’ve just had the most ridiculous week between this mess and finishing up a big training commitment. Combined with the frustration of previous issues and the thought I might have to push up my exit strategy made the whole thing hit closer than it normally would (I wouldn’t be surprised if when a couple of my qualified co-workers follow through on their plans to jump ship, they don’t get replaced by comparably skilled people). I’m going to stew a little more over the weekend and hopefully simmer down to deal with it better by the time work starts next week.

  69. ONFM*

    I need to figure out how to hold employees responsible without making my boss look bad. I was promoted into a newly created middle management position. Previously, my subordinates reported to a director; now I’m between them. I’ve been in this position for about two months, and the biggest issue is time management. My employees spend at least half their time goofing off, then claim that they’re overworked when deadlines get missed. I was installed to help ease some of the workload and fix things.

    I’ve started more closely managing their time and monitoring workloads, and – surprise – things are getting back on track. The issue I have now is that the director keeps making excuses for the team, declining new projects, pushing back deadlines, etc., saying that they’re overworked. They are totally not overworked, he just allowed them to get away with murder! We are meeting deadlines now, able to take on new tasks. How do I change his mind without insulting him?

    1. SophieChotek*

      Oh odd. Is he happy that you are meeting deadlines? Do you think maybe for some reason he doesn’t want the dept. to take on more work so he is using the overworked as an excuse? Yet at the same time if you were installed to fix some issue, someone knows there are problems….Sorry no advice.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Since it’s your job to supervise them, then you should have some say in what the workload is.

      You were installed for a reason. Hang on to that thought. You are doing the job you are being paid to do. And that would be how to frame it, you are fixing things and organizing things so that they can actually take on a bit more work. You would like to be included in the process of accepting/declining new projects since you are right on the front lines and you would be in a good position to know whether that task was doable or not. (This can go into calendar charts for individual time frames for various projects.)

      If you frame it as insulting him, it’s going to be really hard to figure out what to say. For an overview think of it as expanding your job, being more help to your boss and being more profitable/beneficial to the company. The boss expects the situation to get better because of you.

  70. tangoecho5*

    Two questions

    1. If you got a raise this year, what percentage of your salary/pay was it? I’m curious to see how my employer rates against others. Our pay raises are based on our yearly evaluation ratings.

    2. If you’re looking to change fields, do you think it’s helpful or necessary to put in your cover letter why you’re doing so? My daughter wants to leave fast casual restaurant management for something with a more set schedule now that she’s expecting a baby, so wondering if she should talk about why she wants to change industries (she’d not say anything about the baby. She’s not showing yet).

    1. Snark*

      My raise last year was under 2%, which was weak but not unexpected, as we’re a small contractor that needs to control costs to be competitive. I’m expecting roughly the same this year, plus a bonus of undetermined amount.

    2. La Revancha*

      1) 3% has been the raise I’ve received every year. I’ve always received good evaluations.

      2) All she needs to do is say she wants something with a set schedule. She doesn’t need to give a reason as to why.

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      We get market adjustments to our salaries at the beginning of each fiscal year, and bonuses based on our performance assessments. We don’t have merit raises (just bonuses). This year I was promoted, so I don’t know how much of my raise was a market adjustment and how much was the promotion. Last year my market adjustment was 6%.

    5. STG*

      2.5% has been a bare minimum in places I’ve worked. Usually around 4-5 though depending on how successful the year was.

    6. EddieSherbert*

      1) No raise (we have to petition for raises? It’s an odd and complex process, which results in a 0-10% raise. Only downside of my job that I absolutely love!)

      2) I think it is – as in “I want a set schedule” and not as in “baby!” (which is exactly what she was thinking!).

    8. Ramona Flowers*

      1. 4.3%. Combination of a rather paltry COL raise that the union is apparently renegotiating for next year and an annual increment written into my contract. My annual review has no effect on pay. (I’m in the UK and have never worked anywhere with merit raises.)

      2. Yes, but I would make it about the actual work rather than the schedule or convenience thereof.

    9. Anonymousaurus Rex*

      3.5% raise in April. My boss told me she had to fight to get me that raise, as the average raise was 2.5%.

    11. copy run start*

      1. 12%, good evaluation. Not sure if large raises like that are typical or not for my company though. They don’t have formal evaluations like larger businesses.
      2. Looking for a better schedule — don’t need a reason beyond that!

  71. Shauna*

    Anyone else struggling with the LinkedIn jobs feature? I used to get regular “recommended for you” postings on my main page, and had a search set up which gave me weekly updates. Now I can’t access this feature. When I click on the “jobs” icon (at the top, with the briefcase icon), I get a long list of “companies in your network.” I cannot find a solution to this despite many, many web searches. Advice most welcome!

    1. EMM*

      Yes, the same thing happened to me. I ended up having to contact LinkedIn support and sending screenshots of what it looked like on my end. Their response was basically that they were aware it was happening to some people but not sure why. The feature did eventually come back to my account though!

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Happened to me too. Now I just get a short list of “Jobs like this one you looked at” which aren’t typically helpful if I just looked at a random job out of curiosity.

      Glassdoor sends daily emails but at least with my criteria it’s the same jobs every day. I do best setting up setting up searches myself rather than wait for the recommendations.

  72. EMM*

    Any advice on job hunting when switching fields/focuses? My past experience is in print marketing, but I am looking to move to a digital marketing role. However, because I have no experience with it, I am not qualified for any jobs. And then because I can’t get a job in digital marketing, I can’t get any experience…..it’s a bit of a terrible cycle. I tried responding to a volunteer posting for a social media role, but even for that I got passed over for someone with professional experience.

    1. Green Goose*

      Are there any print marketing roles that you could take that have a digital marketing component to them?

  73. This One Wishes To Remain Anonymous*

    I could use some reassurance that my feelings regarding this situation are valid.

    For the holidays, there are a few peers I’ve given gifts to. Nothing fancy, just little things under $20 that I think would make them smile. I also make a little snack (seasoned nuts, cookies, things like that) that I give to everyone in the office. One of the peers I’ve gifted to in the past has done things over the past year that have soured the relationship. There are work-related things like slacking off and talking about how they don’t want to do the work anymore (I’ve had to pick up this slack), but the biggest issue for me is that they were charged with a second offense DUI. I lost someone to a drunk driver so I obviously have very strong feelings about this. It’s perfectly reasonable for me to skip the gift for this peer, while still giving the snack, right? I feel like I’m way overthinking this.

    1. Green Goose*

      As long as you are not blatantly giving everyone else a gift except for them, then its fine. Also, be discrete with the people you do give gifts to, so as to not hurt other peoples feelings.

      1. This One Wishes To Remain Anonymous*

        Yeah, I always have been discrete. My office is… dysfunctional to say the least and there are people (CEO included) who give some gifts but not others rather loudly.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This is a good point. It might be the year for you, OP, to say that you won’t be giving gifts anymore because of at home things and just make the treats for everyone.

        At home things could be anything from financial stuff to change of gifting practices to total life style changes.

    3. Temperance*

      I would get them a pocket breathalyzer and no snack, but I hate drunk drivers more than any other group on the planet.

      I lost an aunt to a drunk driver, and it makes me sick how you can more or less just kill someone with a car and walk off scot-free.

      1. This One Wishes To Remain Anonymous*

        Yeah, remaining professionally civil with this person is difficult for me. The breathalyzer idea is so very tempting.

        1. Bibliovore*

          I have a nephew who was on house arrest for a DWI right after two very dear friends were killed in a drunk driving “accident” (is it an accident when someone knowingly drinks and drives?) Their deaths shook us to the core and has left a hole in my professional community to this day. The nephew’s parents were joking and making very light of the situation. I think someone even said that this punishment was unfair to this young man. At no time did anyone say, hey you could have killed someone. I can barely be in his presence years later.

      2. Ramona Flowers*

        I have lost two people to two separate drunk drivers, and I understand why you’re finding this hard. I’m sorry.

  74. Natalie*

    Started my new job this week. I have my own office, a window, and a little heater thingy under my desk! I like my coworkers so far, and it’s a really diverse workplace for my area and field, which is a nice bonus.

    On the downside, I started during the last week of the close so my various bosses have been too busy to do much training and I am B-O-R-E-D. I’ve done all the HR trainings I had a full month to get through, rearranged my office, and fixed a bunch of broken things my predecessor just left broken. It’s a little amusing to me because they were very insistent I start the date that I did, when I would have been willing to wait a week, but whatever.

  75. Green Goose*

    At my office, our teams are allowed to get gifts for people for their major life events (wedding, baby etc.) and we have a newish coworker who is graduating from college. We want to get him something, but are sort of at a loss. Does anyone have any gift suggestions for a 22 year old coworker who is graduating from college? Less than $50.

    1. caryatis*

      Gift card. Everyone will use an Amazon gift card, or Starbucks if he likes fancy coffee, or you can just get a generic Visa gift card.

    3. Curious Cat*

      Hello! 22-yr-old recent college grad here… gift cards are much appreciated, no matter the amount. I also received a gift from a kind manager when I graduated that was relevant to my field (I work in PR and she gave me the most updated version of the AP Stylebook), so maybe something that could be practically useful to their job!

    4. Snark*

      Amazon gift card. Starbucks cards are overrated, IMO, because not everybody likes coffee and not everybody likes Starbucks coffee, but basically everybody uses Amazon. And if not that, like Caryatis says, a generic “Vanilla Visa” gift card can be spent anywhere.

    5. Grits McGee*

      Agree with everyone else- cash or general purpose gift card. But a thoughtful card/note is also really great- I still have the card my former coworkers gave me when I graduated hanging on my refrigerator.

  76. straws*

    We have an employee requesting a sit-to-stand desk for medical reasons. The desks we have now are causing him pain, and we definitely want to rectify that. He’s away from the office for the next couple of weeks and doesn’t want to come back just to be in pain again. The problem is that these desks are significantly more expensive than what we normally buy. Even if we bought a “topper”, the desk he has now is too tall to work with it, so then we’d have to buy the topper plus a new desk. We’re small with an even smaller budget. Even the cheapest desk we’ve found would be more than what we usually budget for an entire year. We probably just have to suck it up and spend the money (with hopefully no repercussions financially), but I thought I’d throw it out to the group and see if anyone has any prior experience or helpful advice.

    1. Curious Cat*

      I know my org has a program where they cover part of the standing desk, but then the employee pays the rest of the cost incrementally with it taken out of each paycheck. Although I also know if someone has a doctors note, the organization outright buys it for the person, regardless of cost.

    2. Temperance*

      This is just my cheapass side talking, but what about just like, putting a platform or box on his desk and one of those monitor/keyboard holders that elevates it?

      1. Snark*

        Generally those are not ergonomically correct and don’t permit one to either sit or stand, which is particularly important when you’re getting used to standing for a large portion of the work day.

        1. Temperance*

          There are a few people in my office who have them and seem to be just fine. They’re adjustable. I honestly don’t have a clue what the proper name for the product is.

          1. Snark*

            Yes, but can you lower it to a sitting-in-a-chair height and then raise it to stand? If not, it’s not gonna work. You can’t go from sitting most of the time to standing all the time without pain, and even having done it for five years now, I sill sit for an hour or two a day. Every doctor I’ve ever talked to strongly discouraged me from McGuyvering a solution for that reason.

            There’s no reason to skimp on this. A sit-stand desk topper is under $350. That’s affordable for just about any business.

      2. straws*

        We did test this out, but part of the issue is the desk height in regard to using a mouse. It’s too high for him at any “chair setting” that we have.

        1. CAA*

          Is everyone using a mouse on a desk surface that’s too high? When assigned a non-computer desk, I have always asked for the company to buy an adjustable keyboard/mouse tray that bolts under the desk and can be set to the proper height. I only work while sitting though. Employees should be able to sit with feet flat on the floor and type or mouse without having to lift their shoulders. Providing ergonomically appropriate furniture is a cost of doing business and you can’t really say that you can afford to have employees but can’t afford to provide a safe work environment for them, so in addition to the one guy you’re helping, be prepared to make accommodations for others once they realize that they can ask for them.

          There are low cost computer desks at Staples and IKEA. You may be able to get something with a keyboard tray for sitting and put one of the toppers on it that allows for standing. The employee just has to move his mouse and keyboard between the tray to the standing platform when he changes positions.

    3. Snark*

      First off, there are plenty of sit-stand desks that are height adjustable, so no, you would not necessarily have to buy a new desk – just put the topper on the desk, adjust to preferred height, and he’s good. That’s more or less the point of topper-style options. Check out Varidesk and Versadesk, to start, but there’s plenty of options.

      Second, yeah, sorry, but you do have to suck it up and spend the money. My employer is small and has to aggressively control costs, and they still bought me a standing desk. It’s not fair to expect him to suffer pain over a $200-350 expenditure.

      1. straws*

        Agree. Our highest priority is definitely the employee’s comfort. The adjustable part is only a portion of the issue. The other is the height of the desk. It’s too tall, so using a mouse on it is causing some of the pain. Thus us scrapping the topper idea. I’ll check out your suggestions though. Perhaps topper + new desk can be more affordable for us. Fingers crossed for end of year sales!

        2. zora*

          Can you also add a keyboard tray that attaches to the bottom of the desk?

          And there are toppers where the keyboard level and the monitor level are independently adjustable. So, if you did both, wouldn’t that solve his problem for both sitting and standing?

        3. Yorick*

          Mine is a topper with two shelves, the lower one for the keyboard and mouse. At the lowest setting, the keyboard/mouse is a little lower than the desk itself.

    4. k.k*

      Does everyone in your office use the same style desk? If not, I would look around and see if there is any desk in the office that would work with the topper, and see if you can do some swapping to make it work.

    5. LKW*

      Why not purchase a less expensive desk from Ikea that is no frills with the topper? You could get him an ikea desk and small filing cabinet for a couple of hundred dollars. It’s not nothing but it’s not super pricey either.

      1. Snark*

        IKEA even sells adjustable-height desk legs that can be mated with any of their desk and table tops for under $350.

    6. Hi.Hi.Hi.*

      You could try reaching out to your state’s Office of Rehab Services/Disability services (different names depending on location)…depending on their caseload/budget, if your employee has a chronic condition, and would qualify as a client of theirs if he was unemployed, they may be willing to pay for the desk. The only thing to note is that the desk would then be considered the property of the employee, versus the company.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      You might want to check out National Business Furniture. They have a large website. Under “desks” click on “adjustable”. I think this is the place we ordered from. It’s not high end stuff, but it does work and it seems to hold up. The next hurdle is does the furniture fit in with your office, if it does the prices are not bad.

  77. Emotionally Neutral*

    How do those of you who are politically active prevent your activism from causing problems with employers? Is it necessary to assume some risk to one’s livelihood as part of being an activist? Is the risk of losing one’s job or having to change careers fairly small?

    I work in a field that is not friendly to certain political causes and fields of activism, in fact treating some political groups as threats. I reduced my involvement in political activism when I took my job (no more demonstrations or petitioning drives, etc.) partly in order to minimize the risk of being seen as a threat or losing my job. But I would like to start again and am interested in hearing how others handle it.

    1. Curious Cat*

      I’m fairly politically active in an org that tends to lean toward the other side of the spectrum on government issues. I’m most active online, but I always make sure to not include where I work in my bio, and then for extra precaution, a “Views are my own” disclaimer. Also I’m in the mindset that what I do outside of work (as long as I’m not there for work purposes or representing the company) is my own business, so I feel as though I can safely attend demonstrations and exercise my rights. But, every organization is different. Do the level of political activism that you feel comfortable with.

    2. zora*

      Yeah, it’s the cost-benefit analysis you have to do if you want to be really politically active.

      I made the choice to be politically active in a controversial area, but knew that that will somewhat limit my career options for the rest of my life. Not completely though, I am working for a forprofit company in the marketing industry and they weren’t bothered by the lefty activist stuff on my resume. So, I could be fairly active here if I wanted to, and it would be accepted, and even supported. The company is pretty good on major political issues.

      But, yeah, I wouldn’t be able to work for a company that had a problem with lefty activism. They wouldn’t want me, and I wouldn’t be able to respect them enough to work for them.

      It is a little disheartening that a decision you make early in life (I started getting politically active in college at 19) can have an effect on your life, but that’s kind of reality. That is how a lot of people’s lives are.

      Of course, in my case, I actually worked in political organizations, so it’s on my resume. I wouldn’t even get hired for certain jobs, so it makes it a little more cut and dried for me. But I think it’s similar in your case when just talking about outside of work. It’s kind of the decision you have to make: which is more important to you? Your job/earning power? Or your level of involvement on issues you care about? It’s perfectly valid to choose the job/earning power, I’m not trying to guilt you into anything. But it is a choice. Sometimes these kinds of things come up as we get older, and it’s hard, but you learn that sometimes we have to make choices that limit other paths for us.

    3. zora*

      I should add, it is a cost-benefit analysis, but it might not be a yes or no decision in your case. Can you think of ways you could be involved in certain issues in ways that might not be as obvious.

      Can you do stuff online? Can you work on the board of an organization, or otherwise doing something less public? There will still be a risk, but not as much of one? I don’t think it’s a yes/no question, it’s more of a spectrum.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      Haven’t run into this yet. I try to keep politics out of the office, especially after working with several blatant You-Know-Who supporters (whose electioneering at work I had to report; luckily the company backed me up on that one).

      There is one company I did apply to where the HR person called me for a phone interview, but during it, she decided I was way overqualified for the position and was very nice about it. Later, this turned out to be the company that hosted You-Know-Who’s visit to the city. I’ve never been so glad I didn’t get a job in my life. In fact, I was out on the street protesting it and ended up smack dab in the middle of a photo in the paper.

      So far, that hasn’t come back to haunt me. I don’t really care if it does, and I’m not making any attempt to be careful on Twitter–that’s my personal account, and if someone doesn’t want to hire me to do unrelated work because of my politics, I probably don’t want to work for them anyway. If anyone asks, however, I plan to say that I keep that stuff out of the workplace and if any coworkers bring up the subject, I won’t discuss it with them. I also don’t befriend coworkers on social media or talk about work on it, either.

  78. Snark*

    So is it tacky to cite your own research in a work product, assuming the reference is relevant to the topic at hand?

    1. Emotionally Neutral*

      At least in academia it seems common enough, particularly if it’s necessary to discuss the background for the current research paper.

        1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          Can’t see why it would be a problem. If you wrote the relevant reference, then that’s what you should cite. Even if it’s not academic I think the same rules still apply.

    2. paul*

      Isn’t citing yourself (provided it’s a published work or original research) pretty common? I know I’ve read works where the author cited previous works they’d published. Mostly when referencing prior field studies that got published.

    3. Mary (in PA)*

      I worked on a multi-chapter, multi-author work as a freelance project, and it became kind of a fun game to see how far I’d get in the references before one of the authors cited one of their previous works. Usually it was the first citation in the chapter, but a few times it was in the three to five range.

      If the previous work is relevant, it’s not even remotely tacky.

    4. Reba*

      I think it’s very normal, though I do give the side eye to people who cite Everything They Have Ever Written, not just the things that are strictly relevant. [Eyes emoji]

    6. Ramona Flowers*

      Actually I think it’s technically plagiarism if you don’t cite your own research but would if it had been someone else’s, as you can plagiarise yourself.

      I also think it’s fine and have seen it plenty.

  79. A. Ham*

    Is anyone else here work in arts management? Any advice for times when the wants/needs of the management side clash with the wants/needs of the artistic side? I’ve dealt with it before, and unless it’s a budget issue (in which case the management side usually has the upper hand) the answer always seems to be some form of “let them do what they need to do, we’ll just have to adjust”. And in a lot of ways I get it- as an arts organization what we put in our exhibition halls or on the stage is the most important part of what we do as an organization, so the artistic side should get a certain amount of leeway, in the hopes that what we produce is the best it can possibly be. But at the same time, as someone in a customer facing job (marketing/ticketing) it is frustrating to have to stretch timelines and not be able to answer patron’s questions, simply because the artistic leadership hasn’t yet made a decision about something.

    1. SophieChotek*

      I think for the marketing/ticketing – if it is a frequent issue and you have frustrated customer (that you could lose) it is worth bringing up with some concrete examples. (I don’t have arts management per se – something I might be interested in – but have worked various production jobs in theater for many years.) If you don’t have an audience/customer – ultimately that is a problem.

  80. caryatis*

    I would appreciate suggestions on how to deal with computer-related eye strain. My optometrist advised special computer glasses (they have a weaker prescription because I am near-sighted) but they just seem to make my headaches worse!

    2. k.k*

      You’ve likely heard this one if you’ve already talked to an eye doctor, but just in case, there is an exercise called the 20-20-20 that helps with eye strain. Every 20 minutes, look away from your computer and focus on something at least 20 feet away, for at least 20 second.

    3. Light sensitive*

      I found that lowering the brightness of my monitor helped a lot. Also, installing a blue light filter on my computer. I use f.lux. I also found that the fluorescent lights I was sitting under were giving me headaches, so we had the bulbs removed and I have a lamp.

    4. Anono-me*

      Please have your glasses double checked? Sometimes the prescription isn’t quite right or sometimes the centering is off.

    5. strawberries and raspberries*

      Also, when you look away from the computer, you can work on the muscles in your eyes by facing straight ahead but just moving your eyes up and down and then side to side. It’s weird to think of “stretching” your eyes, but it does help mitigate the pressure of eye strain.

    6. Kathenus*

      Definitely the 20-20-20 thing. My first attempt, they gave me reading type glasses that didn’t help at all. I had read a lot about computer vision syndrome, which seemed to describe my issues to a T, and after trying the new glasses for a couple of weeks went back in to get the prescription trained. They are now intermediate level not reading, and they work much better. My eye doctor also thought borderline dry eye was a component, so suggested the single-use, preservative free natural tears. I have a hard time using this consistently 1) because I forget and 2) because of the packaging and waste. I’m going to switch to the bottles that are multi-use unless it irritates my eyes when I restock. But check whether you have reading or intermediate distance glasses – made a world of difference to me.

    7. SpeedyB*

      There’s an app called Eye Care Plus (there are a bunch of others too) that reminds you to do the things that other commenters noted – blinking a lot, moving your eyes, etc. – and it guides you through them. I find that to be more helpful than trying to remind myself because it tells me exactly what to do and how long to do it.

      And I definitely second the use of f.lux. If you have a newer smartphone, it may also have a Night mode so that you don’t have to install a separate app to have it adjust the lighting at night.

    8. Windchime*

      It might be a good idea to have your prescription for your computer glasses checked. I actually have two pairs of glasses; a pair of varilux (bifocals basically) for driving and watching TV, and a pair of computer glasses specifically for working at the computer. It’s a pain to have to switch glasses sometimes, but the computer glasses are totally worth it *when the prescription is correct*. Mine came from Costco, and they offer some kind of a filter that filters out blue light (or something). I got that and it seems really nice.

      Also, as a glasses-wearer you probably already know this, but make sure the ear pieces aren’t adjusted too tightly and squeezing the sides of your head.

    9. New Window*

      In addition to adjusting screen brightness, you could try inverting the colors. White pages with black text become black pages with white text, which I find easier on my eyes. If your computer has a “nighttime” setting to give it a reddish or orange-ish tint, that may help too.

  81. Your Future Life Coach*

    Any life coaches here, or customers of life coaches? What certifications are legitimate in this field? How do you start getting initial clients? Any beginners tips would be much appreciated.

  82. I'm A Little TeaPot*

    Today is my last day! I start my new job the 18th. I posted last week about some problems, and this week has been better. Still, looking forward to a new job with hopefully better management.

  83. Jadelyn*

    I’d love advice on supervising someone – I’m not formally her supervisor, she and I report to the same person, but she’s the new admin assistant brought in to take some of the lower-level admin tasks off my plate so I can have time to spend on the specialist tech stuff that I’ve been expanding my role into over the last year or two, and I’m the one instructing her in how we do stuff and have been given more or less free reign to choose which tasks to hand off to her and when/how to do so. So I’m kind of supervising a lot of her day-to-day stuff, since our manager is pretty hands-off.

    My big worry is that I don’t want to come off overly directive when I give her tasks, since while I’m senior to her I’m not actually her manager, but I also don’t want to be so wishy-washy that it seems like I’m asking her if she *wants* to do something. In similar vein, I want to keep checking in to make sure things are going okay and see if she has any questions or needs help on anything – but how do I do that without coming off condescending or like I’m checking up on her because I don’t think she’s getting things done or something?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      1. Giving her a task isn’t overly directive. Overly directive would be telling her exactly how to do it and standing over her.

      2. Make it clear you are available for questions and leave it up to her to ask them – and also arranged some scheduled checkins, eg a weekly catch up.

    2. zora*

      I think you are overthinking this.

      I am an admin.. don’t worry about being ‘overly directive’
      * Say Please when you give a task. And Thank you.
      * Don’t yell or be rude.
      That’s all you need to do. Honestly, it will start to feel condescending if you worry about these things too much! Just be polite and direct and treat her as an adult who wants to do her job. I know that a lot of the things people give me will be boring, but I just want to do my job. I don’t need you to be worrying about my feelings.

    3. SilverRadicand*

      I ask my folks “Can you do X?” which lets them know what I need done, but gives them an opening to contribute if they have a question or concern about.
      Also, asking follow-up questions about her work is definitely not a bad thing. I try and ask about the parts that I think are the hardest or most potentially confusing.
      As you are senior in standing to her, and she is new, I’d err towards checking in pretty often and as she successfully completes tasks and seems to get more comfortable, scale back to more periodic check-ins and feedback.
      Don’t worry too much about coming across as condescending. Just be friendly and you should be good.

    4. TL -*

      When I was in a similar ish position, I asked, “Does that work for you?” at the end of a discussion, as in “I’m going to do X and Y; I was thinking you’d do A and B. Does that work for you?” Or, “Hey, Task Z came in. I want to train you on it this week so you can take it over as part of your tasks. What time is good for you?”

      And then following up (especially if it’s a new task for her), “Hey! How did A go?” Or, “Hi, did B get sent out on time? Thank you!”

      The trick is to keep you voice cheerful, like you’re genuinely interested in how she’s doing (easy cause you are!) and giving her space to talk about things – hence that “does that work for you?” type questions, where she can hopefully say things like, “Oh Boss said I was never to do A, ever.”

    5. Not So NewReader*

      You can also work in the word “we” a lot. As in “Boss said we need x done by Friday, so here is what I was thinking…”. Or “We need to do A, B, C and D. I don’t care which two I do, so why don’t you pick first?” Or, “Today we must complete X, Y and Z. Since you know how to do X, then I will do Y and we can do Z together so you can learn that part.”

  84. Afiendishthingy*

    Last week I got a very nice rejection email from a company who had brought me in for multiple emails. The meat of it –
    “Unfortunately, we are not able to make you an offer at this time. While you certainly possess many of the critical competencies for the role, there was a general concern that a bit more practice and refinement in presentation skills and style would be beneficial – e.g., voice projection, eye contact, etc. We hope this feedback is helpful.”

    So I don’t want to be the ex who reads too much into “I can’t be with you… right now”. I replied thanking them for the feedback and saying I hoped they would keep me in mind for future openings. I do know they are a growing company and will have more openings in the next year for this role.

    As I write this I know the AAM advice is MOVE ON and let it be a pleasant surprise if I do hear from them later on! So I’m trying and I am looking at other opportunities.

    I also do want to work on my presentation skills because most jobs I’m qualified for are super heavy on report writing and I want to move away from that. Any advice on opportunities to improve presenting/public speaking skills?

    2. LadyKelvin*

      Find a local toastmaster’s group. I know several people who are involved with them and they really do make a huge difference in your presenting skills.

  85. So very, very anon*

    Do employees at your company expense expensive phones, like the new iphone? I overheard a conversation about staff getting one of our contractors to buy iphones for them because his manager will expense anything and bill it to the company. It sounded very sketchy, but I wondered if anyone worked somewhere where there really was a business need to buy the new iphone. I can’t imagine anyone at my small non-profit needed one.

      1. So very, very anon*

        Yeah, the contractor has been hanging out with some of the staff outside of work…which is great, but in this case it seems that their friendship has taken a bad turn.

    2. Snark*

      This is shadier than a forest floor right after the sun dips behind the mountain. This isn’t “expensing” anything, it’s fraud and it’s illegal as hell.

      1. So very, very anon*

        That’s what I thought. But a part of me was wondering if someone can make a claim that they really needed the phone. But I couldn’t imagine anyone at even huge corporations saying that they had to have one as soon as it came out.

        1. Natalie*

          Huge corporations typically buy their phones by the gross, distribute them to employees, and pay a massive wireless bill every month. It would be really unusual to buy your own phone and expense it.

        2. Snark*

          Even if they really needed the phone, if the employer were willing to provide it, there’s no reason for the contractor to buy it and expense it if. The employer would just purchase it and provide it as company equipment, or reimburse for purchase. Involving the contractor is extremely, extremely shady.

        3. NW Mossy*

          At my company, the newest versions of the iPhone are available for people to request if they’re getting a phone for the first time or their current phone is more than two years old. For those that get the timing right, they end up being able to upgrade shortly after the release.

          The biggest driver of rapid phone replacement at my company is security risk. After a certain point, Apple stops making the latest OS available to older models, so security patches aren’t available for them. I recently had to turn in my 5 for a 7 not because I needed a new phone, but because IT has a requirement that all phones in active use be able to support the current OS.

  86. Mary (in PA)*

    Hello commentariat – I have a general question for all of you today about business trips. I have an awesome new job (yay!) at which I’m paid hourly and am non-exempt. I’m traveling to one of our bi-annual board meetings this coming week. Obviously the board meeting itself counts as “work time,” but I’m also supposed to be the point person for the shuttle bus to and from the restaurant where we’re having the post-board-meeting dinner, and I’ll probably be the person at dinner who signs for the bill (or at least interacts most closely with the restaurant staff). In your opinion, does this also count as “work time”? I feel like it does, since I don’t have the option not to go – but it’s still a somewhat “fun” thing to do and there is a meal involved. What do you think?

    1. Snark*

      Fun or not, it’s still work, and I’d charge for the time you spend working. In my opinion, that includes the entire dinner and any time you spend coordinating logistics.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I am in PA and paid hourly.

      Back in September, I attended a conference and had to be paid for any time that was not my own. Basically, the travel to and from the conference and any time that I was required to be at the event site. The hours when I was chilling in my hotel room were not paid.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        My employer will add three hours for non-work time in the evening if you’re away overnight for work. I’m not paid hourly but have flex hours so would get any extra time back.

    4. Natalie*

      Sounds like work time to me, even though a meal is involved. Think about the staff at a gala or convention – they may be able to hear the keynote speech and eat a meal, but they’re still working the entire time.

      Additionally, any travel time that occurs during your normal work hours has to be paid even if you are not working.

      1. Mary (in PA)*

        That’s interesting – because while there is going to be travel time, I don’t really have a set of “normal” work hours. I basically made my own schedule for this job, which is 20 hours/week. It’s pretty much 9 AM to 2 PM Monday through Wednesday, and then the remaining 5 hours are spread over Thursday and Friday as needed. I don’t think I’m going to run into an overtime situation (since that would be for hours worked over 40) when counting travel time, but that is an interesting point.

    5. Artemesia*

      Absolutely that is work time and even if you were not in charge of management of this dinner as you are, if you are required to attend it, it is work time. But no question at all as you are managing the shuttle, paying the bill etc. You are working.

  87. Consulting Gal*

    How do you explain to clients who want frequent updates/check ins for a project that you don’t have the time with out sounding unaccommodating? I have multiple clients who all feel they should have my undivided attention but its just not feasible to talk multiple times a day to each client and meet my deadlines. Any verbiage would be highly appreciated.

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Send an email out with “office hours.” Say that you’ll be answering phone calls/emails during X, Y, and Z times (vary them a bit so people with different schedules can make it), and then if someone calls at a different time, assuming your org doesn’t have rules against it, just don’t answer the phone/email (even if you would answer other phone calls and emails unrelated to these clients).

      1. Snark*

        Yeah, this is another good strategy, and also good to lay out at the beginning of a relationship: “Email is my preferred means of contact as my schedule is usually packed; expect a reply within one business day. I’m available by phone Monday and Wednesday from 9am-10am and on Thursday and Friday from 3pm-4:30pm.”

    2. Snark*

      Hi, fellow consultant, I see you also work for my clients.

      My approach has generally been to establish a project timeline with numerous and very clear milestones at the very beginning, and then make it clear that you’ll update them if there’s a deviation from that. Let me find my stock email….

      “Of course I appreciate that you will want to know how the project is going and when to expect your next deliverable. I will provide a weekly project status update every Friday by noon mountain time. In general, I will adhere strictly to the attached project timeline, so I recommend referring to that document to have a sense of where the project is at any given time. I will contact you immediately to let you know if a milestone date or dates needs to be changed, or if I need your sign-off or input. Please contact me with any concerns, but as my time is divided between multiple clients and projects, please understand that I may not be able to provide on-demand status updates or adjust my schedule on short notice.”

      And then when they call, “We’re still on schedule and everything is going well, so there’s nothing to update you on! Unfortunately I’m not available to discuss things at length right now, but keep an eye out for my status update tomorrow,” or whatever.

  88. Mallomary*

    I have a question for academics among the AAM readership. I work as a research specialist in a molecular genetics lab. The principle investigator (PI) has just moved this lab to a new institution, and needs to hire new post-docs. In the past, he hasn’t gotten applications from many good candidates. Do you think that the way post-doc fellowships are presented in the job ad affects the quality of the candidates who apply? Or do you think that potential candidates are likely to look at the name on the lab, and start looking through PubMed, asking around to colleagues, etc., and the lack of quality candidates really reflects a lack of interest in the PI’s work?

    1. Thursday Next*

      I’m currently a grad student in a STEM field. What I’ve heard from my advisor and other PIs is that it’s just generally hard to find post-docs, so I don’t think that a lack of candidates necessarily says anything about the quality of the lab.
      Where is your boss advertising? For molecular genetics I’d post on the the Science and Nature job boards, in addition to on your universities job site and on the labs webpage. Are there listserves specific to your sub-field the PI could also submit the job ad to? Is he going to any conferences in the near future? Conferences usually have job boards and I’ve seen PIs try to recruit grad students or post-docs by going to poster or talk sessions and talking to promising students.
      I’m currently applying to post-doc positions and I’ve found the ones I’ve applied to through job boards and personal recommendation (i.e. someone I know emailed me and told me I should apply for a particular position).
      As for the job ad itself I’m not sure how much the quality of the ad affects anything. I want to see a good paragraph about the position, including the project and preferred skills. Could he be asking for too many required skills, as opposed to preferred, or have too specific degree requirements? I’ve seen some ads that seem to be looking for unicorn candidates. There should be at least 2-3 years of funding, I’ve seen ads for positions that only have funding for 1 year and I wouldn’t apply for those.

    2. Yorick*

      It may just be that the posts aren’t advertised well enough. I doubt many graduating PhDs are being so picky about the PI, unless he is really awful or has a reputation for being abusive or something.

      In addition to making sure the ad is posted in the best spots, consider sending the ads to faculty and asking them to share with their students/recent graduates.

      1. TL -*

        If it’s not the number but the quality of candidates, molecular genetics is a field where the very best can afford to be picky.

    4. TL -*

      I’m going to disagree slightly; the quality of the PI does matter, especially in your field. I know PIs who have a 2 year waitlist for postdocs (and people who are on it to be contacted if a position opens up.) My last PI did not have to advertise positions; people were always reaching out to him expressing interest. A lot of people worked on word of mouth; either to look for someone or to get references if someone was interested.

      These were top-tier labs with plenty of excellent candidates to choose from (and the quality of the postdocs was better than the one lab I worked in where they had to advertise but also that lab was super dysfunctional so…) It was mostly about quality of science in the lab, but also about interest in specific projects and prestige of lab/connections.
      These were also labs where you could come in as a postdoc with your own project, if it was good enough, and the PI would be able to fund you if she was interested, so that happened frequently as well.

  89. NonProfitNanny*

    If I’ve already agreed to supervise the kids area at a christmas party, am I able to still negotiate pay, or would I needed to have done this before agreeing? I have babysat for them before, and she chose the lower end of the range I offered for hourly pay ($18, when I gave a range of $18-22). Or is it reasonable to say something like, “For larger groups of children, I typically have my minimum hourly rate be $22”?
    (For background information, I live in a major city where $18+ is very much the norm, particularly for a college graduate with extensive experience taking care of children)

    So, I guess two questions, to sum it up:
    1. Can I go and email her now to try to negotiate hourly rate, or is it too late, since I’ve already agreed? (For what it’s worth, I would likely still do it if she said no to the higher rate)
    2. Does $22 sound reasonable (for a major N.E. city?) if it is okay to try to negotiate? Or am I lowballing myself?

    1. fposte*

      I think it should have happened when you agreed, I’m afraid.

      But what’s up with this you offering people ranges of pay and letting them pick what to pay you? You’re hurting yourself doing that. If the number of kids, hours of the day, distance to travel, or whatever else factors into the rate means that your hourly rate for her should be $22, it’s $22, not $18-$22.

      1. Murphy*

        Yeah, I agree that you should be specific about your rates. Unless she didn’t give you all the info and you said “$18-22 depending on the number of children.” Even then though I probably would have asked about the number of children first and then made a determination.

        In general, having a higher rate for larger groups of children, and stating that outright, is definitely OK. But you do need to state that upfront and not change it after you’ve agreed (assuming the job circumstances didn’t change.)

      2. NonProfitNanny*

        Yeah, after the fact I realized I shouldn’t have done that…my justification was that I framed it as, I typically charge between $18-22 depending on the number of kids, etc.

        Though in previous experience doing that, it has resulted in a positive outcome–people have generally chosen the mid-point (in this case, it would’ve been $20).

        I also do it this way because families have such different views of what they would pay, how much they typically pay, etc., that this way, as long as I give a range and I’m comfortable with any rate that they choose within that, we both can be happy. Not all families are super realistic about the difficulty of their kids, or value a good babysitter to the same extent as others, but in those cases, I just don’t have to make myself as available as I might otherwise.

        But thanks for your reply. I was worried that might be the case, but I was in the midst of convincing/tricking myself into thinking that it would be okay to do.

        1. Natalie*

          I typically charge between $18-22 depending on the number of kids, etc.

          When you said that, did she tell you the number of kids or any other details? Or did she just say “I want to pay $18”? And how did you respond?

    2. LKW*

      It should be fine. You can’t give someone a range and then expect them to pick the higher price. You have to give them specifics. Just tell her that your rates have changed this year and wanted her to be aware.

      1. $18/hr for potty trained children, up to 5 kids
      2. $22/hr for potty trained children, between 6 – 10 kids
      3. $22/hr if any children are still in diapers, no more than 3 diapered children.

      And just let her know that it’s fine if she plans for 7 kids but brings 5, you’ll give her the lower rate but conversely if she arranges for 5 and brings 7 you will expect to be paid at the higher rate.

    3. NonProfitNanny*

      Previously, it’s just been her three children that I’ve watched. This time it’s a party with what sounds like it could/will be over 15 kids, which I didn’t realize when I initially agreed. Though it was my bad not to ask that before agreeing. Or checking on the rate. I’m mostly just assuming that it would be $18, as that is what she’s paid me previously, but we didn’t actually confirm rate for this time (though that may not matter).

      1. Natalie*

        If you didn’t know the number of kids, and she didn’t explicitly tell you, you absolutely can (and IMO should) renegotiate the rate or back out. Sure, you should have asked, but she also should have told you. Apologize for not nailing down the details ahead of time, but nail them down now.

        And for what it’s worth, in general it sounds like you need to practice being a little more proactive with clients. You don’t have to passively accept things just because they’re presented to you. Your time and aggravation are worth something, but some people will take advantage given the opportunity.

        1. Artemesia*

          I’d call and say something like ‘I have reserved the Friday evening we discussed for your party but, I need to find out how many kids to expect and other details about the evening like resources for entertaining them as well as talk about the fee for larger groups of kids.’ No way I would be doing this for the same price as 3 kids. I think you are in a greater position of power than you think here. A good nanny is hard to find and a cheapskate who abuses her nanny may have trouble replacing her. You have already been rolled once; choosing the bottom level for 3 kids is outrageous. Of course you should not have offered this option, but you did. But you need not apply the low ball amount to supervising a large group of kids.

    4. Lumen*

      I think it’s definitely ‘too late’. If you try to negotiate your rate now, it could come across as having told them one thing and then trying to upsell them later. :( Live and learn.

      What’s reasonable depends on two things, in my opinion: the value you bring (your experience, education, special certifications like CPR + UP) and the work being done (number of children, their ages, activities you’ll be expected to facilitate, etc). I’m afraid I don’t know enough about the area to give a dollar amount to it, but I don’t think that $20+ is unreasonable.

    5. NonProfitNanny*

      Fair enough. I appreciate all the responses! I think I’ve become ‘spoiled’ with several other families that I babysit for, who are very generous and conscientious, about how difficult the kid(s) are, or if I’m helping out at a party and running around like a crazy person, etc., and they’ll pay me to reflect that. But I need to remember that these families are probably more the exception than the rule.

      1. LKW*

        Whoa – $18 for 15 kids, that’s like $1 and change per kid per hour. I would not be ok with that. You have 5 times the work and no increase in pay? I would simply say, “I was under the assumption that this would be for three kids, if it’s as many as you say, I’ll have to change my price or find a partner and each of us will need to be paid $18 /hr, I’m sorry for the late change but the difference between 3 kids and 15 kids is significant.”

      2. zora*

        Yeah, this is a different situation. If you didn’t know when you agreed it would be 15 kids, then you DEFINITELY can renegotiate at this point. Honestly, $22 is not even enough. I think you should say, actually for a big group of 15 children, my rate will be $30. I apologize for the late change, but I did not realize we were talking about that many children. And if she says no you should back out. That is a HUGE difference and she sounds like a not very considerate person.

        And if that’s a lot to her, there’s no reason why she shouldn’t have the parents chip in!! If they each put in $2 per kid, that will be WAYY cheaper than they would be paying for a babysitter at their own house! This lady is being so unreasonable.

  90. paul*

    Had a memorial for a recently decease coworker this AM; held at work. That may be the saddest awkward work experience or the awkwardest sad work experience (I’m not sure which) I’ve had in my life.

    I like her well–she was always friendly, and engaged with people. But I only knew her at work, and her family was there too and looked like they mostly wanted to be anywhere else and I can’t blame them. There was her adult kids, and her surviving sibling and then a couple dozen of us.

    They don’t know us, most of us ain’t met them and I know when I’ve lost a close family or friend I don’t want to be in front of a ton of strangers.

  91. gala apple*

    How does your company handle sick days when doing annual reviews, and how do you feel about it?

    We don’t have a separate bucket for sick days– it’s all in the same personal leave bucket. In my department, it affects your yearly review rating if you take too much unplanned leave, which can impact your raise if you are eligible for one.

    I don’t like having the combined bucket, and taking UPL is really discouraged because “it impacts our teammates” and we “have to be there for customers” (team of 100+).

    1. EddieSherbert*

      I’m extremely lucky – we have unlimited sick days (paid, no punishment, don’t lose any PTO).

      Obviously, there are limits – like if I’m getting surgery and will be out for 6 weeks, I’m going through Short term disabillity.

      But I had a terrible sinus infection last month, and ended up taking off two full days, and then working approximately half days the rest of the week (from home), and that was fine. No doctor’s note needed or anything.

    2. zora*

      Whoa, that sounds awful to me. I would be looking to get out of there, that is a terrible attitude.

      We have to be here for customers and teammates, and people work a lot. But it’s understood that if people have health issues those come first. They would never hold it against us for having to be out for health reasons on our raises!!! That is disgusting.

      Everyone here is reasonable about it, because we all get that it ebbs and flows. Someone might be out a lot this year for a health issue, but another year they will be putting in a lot of work and you might be the one who needs to take care of medical stuff. That’s the reality of us all being humans, not robots.

  92. Zip Silver*

    Well, the end of the year spending freeze just went into effect. Yaaaaaay. Only 2 weeks to go (closed between Christmas and New Years).

  93. Arils*

    Is it possible to be a voice actor part time? Does any0ne here do this? (Otherwise, I’m a government analyst full-time :) )

    I feel like giving it a shot, but I also feel like I’d need to have connections to even have a remote chance.

    1. SophieChotek*

      Well I have a friend who just started this as a side job; I don’t know how well she is doing with it, though. (hmm, I should ask.) I have another friend who is retired who has also done this – I think he got hired to dub some French film into English.

      But sorry, no idea how you would get started. I do know that of the above one friend used to be a producer for some radio show like 5-10 years ago (so probably has some connections) and the other guy used to work at a university in a theater dept. (so also probably met people).

    3. NDR*

      Some podcasts I listen to occasionally have an open call for a voice actor. If it’s a tiny part or a new/small show, the work could be unpaid but it would give you a chance to build some contacts, a resume, etc. (I say that as an occasional freelance writer and know the perils of offering to do something for free.)

  94. Fake old Converse shoes*

    I have a question for the ESL speakers here. How do write the education section of your resumé? A week ago I was invited by a recruiter working for a US-based company to their local event. I politely declined because it’s finals season at Uni and I’m squeezing every minute possible to study (lunchtime, train, bus, after dinner, etc). The problem is that the education system here it’s not the same as in the US, so a literal translation will be confusing, and finding an equivalent degree name (if it exists) may leave the impression that I studied there, or imply knowledge or skills I don’t have. I sent it with that part written in my language, because I didn’t have time to research properly, but I think I should rewrite it later. Any advice?

    1. Reba*

      There are resume/cv translation services. (Some universities require them if you are applying in a different country than your previous degree.) If you are planning at looking at a lot more US-based jobs, it might be worth considering hiring a professional to look it over. OTOH if the recruiter is familiar with the country you’re in now, which seems to be the case, the recruiter themselves might be a good resource to ask, in the course of looking into at opportunities with their company.

  95. Detective Amy Santiago*

    So excited! I had a phone screen with a recruiter the day after Thanksgiving and then last week I had a phone interview with the Program Manager. I just got an email to set up a video interview with the Managing Director next week (which I believe is the final step in the interview process).

    If this works out, I’m looking at at least a 10k per year salary increase and a partial WFH situation. I will be diligently studying Alison’s interview guide this weekend!

  96. Delilah*

    I am pretty upset, but maybe I shouldn’t be?

    I have been in the interview pipeline with [international sports juggernaut] for nearly four months. In that time, I have had six interviews (three on the phone, two onsite, one “followup over coffee” with the hiring manager). Before the thanksgiving holiday was my last onsite with the senior director, it seemed to go well. I have been sent the benefits package to look over. The day before thanksgiving, I receive a note from the hiring manager thanking me for my patience, and saying that they need more time, and acknowledging that such a long process risks “losing strong candidates like you.” Which was nice.

    But it’s now been almost three weeks. I followed up at two weeks with something along the lines of “[Sports behemoth] is still my first choice but my consulting queue is filling… please let me know if I can provide more information.”

    Crickets. Nothing.

    After four months and six interviews, I’m astonished that I haven’t at least gotten a “thank you for your time.” Is this normal behavior? What could possibly be the problem here? Was I out of line to follow up?

    1. fposte*

      You weren’t out of line! I do think that given the leisurely timeline on the whole process that “needing more time” just before Thanksgiving to me reads as “check you in the new year” (though I’m also in academics, so . . . ) But some companies really do suck at the rejections, so it’s possible that they’re not notifying people.

      A third possibility is that they’re interested in you but their first offer went elsewhere, so they don’t want to reject you because they might need you, but they don’t know for sure yet.

  97. Murgleburgle*

    Company holiday party and after-party last night (yes, on a Thursday). Thankfully the C-level canceled their 8:30AM First Friday meeting this month. I got about 5 hours of sleep and I have maybe 15% of a hangover, but I didn’t front-load my hours this week so I won’t be leaving early today. Hopefully my coworkers will, though, and then I can crawl under my desk and hide.

  98. Database Geek*

    I have a second round interview next week… I really want the job because I’ve been looking for 6 months and I’m so tired of job searching. I’m planning to take some time to research the company and figure out what questions I should be asking and other notes! I haven’t heard back from any of the other places I recently had phone calls/first round interviews with yet either.

  99. Darianas*

    I’m looking to move on from my first job and I got contacted by a recruiter. We talked about a position – a Senior one, which I mentioned that I felt like I didn’t seem to have the experience for but the recruiter (R) thought I would merit a conversation at least. R sent over a reference sheet with spaces for four references, peers, and subordinates, their contact information and where they currently work. This is giving me a bad feeling (and googling their company gives me basically nothing). Any advice?

    1. The New Wanderer*

      You shouldn’t need to provide references until after you interview with the actual company (excepting certain fields like academia).
      Since the recruiter isn’t even asking for management references, it sounds like they’re trolling for new candidates. Add to that that the job doesn’t even sound like the right fit, and it does sound shady.

      If you want to continue talking to the recruiter, I think the wording I’ve seen recommended for situations like this is “I prefer to keep that information confidential until later in the process” or similar.

    2. Friday*

      Recruiter seems to have things back-asswards. First they should get you in for an interview so you and the firm can assess if it makes sense to move forward! If I were you, I wouldn’t consent to them reaching out to references before even talking to me. That’s something to be done near the end of the hiring process.

    3. Darianas*

      Thanks for your help! I should clarify that the recruiter is asking for management references, but the amount of information about each category of person was off-putting.

  100. ARCopyeditor*

    After working as a freelance editor for the last decade, I’m starting a new job for a large corporation in their communications department (thanks in no small part to the great resume and interview advice Alison has given on this site). It’s a great job with fabulous benefits and just what I’ve been looking for! I was wondering if any of my fellow readers have transitioned from freelance work to a more traditional job with less flexibility. Any advice or pitfalls to avoid?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Yep. I was freelance for about eight years and then got a full-time job in 2016. There were so few articles offering advice on moving in that direction – Google mostly turned up stuff on becoming freelance – but I found a few good ones I’ll post in a follow-up comment.

      I found it was a relief to have a regular salary but it took me a while to adjust to not being on the feast-and-famine rollercoaster.

      I gradually mentioned to my bosses that I hadn’t worked full-time in ages and might ask questions about things that would seem obvious to anyone else and they might sometime need to explain as if they were talking to an alien who just landed from outer space.

      Also, ask your manager what you do and don’t need to check in on. Do you need to ask them before taking on projects or reshuffling priorities, that kind of thing.

      Having objectives is really weird when you’ve worked for yourself. I found it infantilising at first, but grew to appreciate having an objective measure of what I should be doing.

      Things that may drive you crackers:
      Needing permission to take time off
      You can’t just take on loads of extra commissions to earn more money
      You have much less control over your physical environment (if you worked from home before) and things like the software you use
      You may not be able to say no to work you want to do

      Things that make it all worth it:
      Not being responsible for everything
      Someone else buys your supplies
      Money that reliably arrives on a regular basis

  101. rosiebyanyothername*

    To my commuters, how do you handle after-work events when you live much further away from work than others? I commute into City A from State B via public transit (roughly 30 miles), and while the morning ride is usually fine, the evening return trip can get a little crazy. I usually leave at 5 on the dot to make a specific train.
    Leaving later = longer commute home, and while I like socializing with my coworkers, the length of my commute and day in general means I’m not always up for happy hours. Even leaving at 6 means a much longer commute than leaving at 5. I know when things are more-or-less mandatory (i.e. the upcoming holiday party), but when it comes to the optional stuff, I usually say no unless it’s on a Friday. I worry I’m appearing flaky or like I don’t like my coworkers. I do! But I also like being able to get a relatively full night of sleep before waking up at 5:30 to catch my morning train…

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Are you me?! I wake up around then, and I also decline a lot of events for this reason or just go for a short while. People get that I live further away and it’s not been a huge issue.

  102. UpsetGraduate*

    My manager and I are both graduating with our bachelors degree this semester. Since I started here a couple years ago we’ve both been working towards this. Today when I arrived at work I found out our team of 10 is going to buy pitch in and buy him a large gift basket. I feel completely crushed. My accomplishment hasn’t been recognized, everyone seems to be cheering him on while I silently go through a full time course load and working a full 40 hour work week. I don’t want to bring it up and sound selfish to anyone. In my head it is not so much about the large gift as it is about the fact I haven’t been told congratulations in any way. I already went to HR in tears this morning explaining the situation. Should I let it go? Should I say something to the manager?

    1. TCO*

      That’s painful; I’m sorry. Congratulations on working so hard for such a great accomplishment. I hope you have friends or family who will celebrate with you even if your coworkers are falling short.

      I don’t really think this is a problem for HR because it’s not like anyone is being discriminatory (I assume) or breaking company policy–they’re just not being very thoughtful. I understand why you went to them in a time of distress but they probably won’t get involved.

      I do think that you could say something to your manager if you have a good relationship. Your manager probably isn’t aware that your coworkers are doing this, and would probably want to know if he’s a kind person who cares about your happiness at work. Or who knows–maybe your manager is leading a surprise gift for you and your coworkers wanted him to have the same.

      Does your team ever do lunch or happy hour together? If so, maybe you could suggest to your manager that the two of you have a casual joint celebration. That would be a way to remind everyone that you’re both graduating without you having to make it all about whether or not you receive a gift basket.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Oof. I understand why you’re upset, but I’m not sure that there is anything HR can do.

      I’m guessing you found out because someone asked you about pitching in? I can’t control my mouth, so I probably would have said something like “Oh, I’m graduating too” and making the person asking feel awkward. (Presuming that your team actually knows you are also graduating).

      1. UpsetGraduate*

        I went in there to let them know I needed to take the afternoon off (to control my emotions) but I was already quite upset and it just came out.. I probably should have just sent an email in hindsight:/

        Thank you for your advice.

        1. TCO*

          I’d encourage you to try to keep your “game face” on about this at work if possible. I completely understand how painful this is, and I’m sure you’re also exhausted, but most people will not understand this as an event so upsetting that you need to take a half-day off of work to control it. It just doesn’t look that “serious” from an outside perspective–that doesn’t mean you can’t feel whatever emotions you feel, but this kind of reaction will make many people think you’re blowing it out of proportion.

          So–avoid the discussion about it, send an email explaining that your own budget as a FT student doesn’t allow you to contribute to the gift, “go to the bathroom” or “be on a call” when the gift basket is being presented, do what you need to do. But try to keep a game face on at work.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            All of this. So much. But sorry this happened to you, UpsetGraduate. It sucks to feel left out.

      2. Murphy*

        My first year at my job, I signed a birthday card for my grandboss, noticing that his birthday was the same day as mine. I just assumed that somewhere there was a card going around for me as well that I didn’t know about. NOPE.

    3. Murphy*

      I don’t think there’s anything you can do, but this really sucks.

      Although, do you know for sure that they’re not getting you anything as well? You wouldn’t know unless you received it, right? (Although, if I were your team, I wouldn’t have included either graduate in the gift contributing.) Just a thought.

    4. Caledonia*

      Congratulations on graduating. It’s a massive achievement. It sucks for it not be acknowleged, esp as your boss is but you have done great.

      I hope friends or family can celebrate with you but if not, do something for yourself (I went on holiday) like a nice meal or a gift for yourself because “you’re worth it”.

    6. UpsetGraduate*

      I was sleep deprived when this happened and as I wrote this. I went home had a nap and now I’m okay. Thanks everyone for your comments! I sent the story to a couple friends and we will be celebrating the achievement this weekend. I lenjoy working with my team and I know that this wasn’t done on purpose or to spite me. It is likely they might be planning something for me as well, if not I will suck it up and get on with it. Just glad to be done with University!

      1. TCO*

        I’m so happy you’re feeling better. You did the right thing by taking care of yourself and creating your own happiness. Enjoy celebrating with your friends!

    7. Kathenus*

      There could also be a misunderstanding somewhere along the line. I left a job once that I was very happy at and where I got along great with people (for a ‘dream job’ that I’m no longer in, I’ve now learned that lesson the hard way). Nothing was said about a goodbye party or anything, although these were the norm in my organization. Turns out someone told someone else I didn’t want anything done. Not sure who, or why, since I never said or indicated that at all. It definitely hurt. They scrambled last minute and did some nice things for me at a large meeting, and sent me a really thoughtful gift afterwards that related to my time there, but it still stings a bit even now, and even knowing it wasn’t intentional.

  103. MCM*

    Not sure if this will share properly. It’s a photo in reference to someone drinking a co-worker’s breast milk at work.

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=KC0W7w3X&id=9D0BD50BDD6A6789E841DC73B27AF5EA9CEF6113&thid=OIP.KC0W7w3Xwgq5VIzE22AcIQDYEs&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fimages.huffingtonpost.com%2f2016-07-26-1469558726-112359-ScreenShot20160726at2.44.56PM.png&exph=639&expw=462&q=taking+photos+of+coworkers+without+permission&simid=607989984601441985&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0

    2. zora*

      AMAAZINNGGGG

      I’m assuming that note is fake, just to make a point. But either way, that note-writer is MY SHERO!

  104. RooseyGoosey*

    Our small non profit moved to a new building this year. We went from a sort of run-down office park with terrible management to a really lovely high rise in our small city with a 24-hr security guard, onsite management, etc. But now there’s a dilemma we never faced before –

    Should we get a holiday gift for the security guard? There’s a day guard that we see every day, but also weekend and evening guards that we don’t interact with frequently – should we get gifts for all of them? Do we leave a gift for the Housekeeping staff? (The security guards are employed by the building, the housekeeping is a separate company that’s contracted, if that makes a difference.) Do we get a gift for the building management people? I have no idea what’s expected.

    Whatever gifts we might get will have to be small, I’m just not sure what’s appropriate. Help?

    1. Lumen*

      My company is in a downtown high rise with 24 hour security, contracted housekeeping, etc. As far as I am aware, we do not give gifts to security or housekeeping, as they are not our employees.

      Maybe a gift basket?

      1. Tommy Wiseau's Oscar*

        It is certainly not required, so don’t feel pressured to. We always do and have found it is always appreciated. When we were in a smaller building, we gave gift cards to some departments and group gift baskets to others. Now that we are in a large building, we give gift baskets to the cleaning, security, parking, engineering and building management departments (all of whom help us throughout the year). I wouldn’t gift any department that wasn’t helping you out through the year. But if folks are keeping us safe, cleaning up after us, fixing our HVAC, etc., rescuing birds out of our ceiling (hero engineer!), we like to get them a little “thank you” once a year (we do it at Thanksgiving). Keep in mind, we have had bad building management in the past who were decidedly unhelpful and whom we did not give a gift. A gift basket has the added bonus of providing snacks for folks on different shifts, as you pointed out, that you might not see in person.

  105. Annie Moose*

    Update on the donation situation from last week (link in reply)…

    Short version of my situation: one of the directors at my company (Wakeen) organizes a donation to charity in the owners’ names. The emails about the donation heavily imply it’s obligatory and give no details on what the charities will be ahead of time. It’s weird and I sent an email to our HR person (Jane) about it last week.

    I wasn’t able to talk to Jane until Wednesday. In the meantime, another email went out about donating, this time from our admin, with virtually the same wording. (I’m guessing this was to distance it from the image of a director telling employees to contribute.)

    On Wednesday I was finally able to talk with Jane, and here’s a summary:

    – despite the wording of the emails (which give no indication that it’s a voluntary donation), she was very firm that it’s not obligatory and it would be fine if I or anyone else didn’t donate (to which I pointed out that the wording strongly implies that it is obligatory… we’ll see if they update the wording next year).

    – she sounded surprised when I told her about the email Wakeen sent out last year talking about how many people hadn’t yet donated and saying he’d come guilt people in person who hadn’t contributed. I’m guessing she didn’t know about it.

    – she conceded they should give the names of the charities up-front. Unfortunately it sounds like they still haven’t decided on the charities (despite collecting money for them!) so I wasn’t able to get the names for this year. (last year, an email was sent out afterward with the details on the charities/how much was donated–I went back and checked, and it turned out they didn’t end up donating to a religious charity after all)

    – the donation is indeed “In Honor Of [name of boss]”, but when I asked about getting a receipt, she assured me I would be able to and even herself suggested I could make a donation myself directly to the charity in lieu of doing it through Wakeen.

    – her shtick on why they do this is because of all the various perks we get (e.g. I end up with free lunch three or four times a month, we have a swanky Christmas party, other free events for employees throughout the year…). Which… whatever. Lots of companies do these things without anybody needing to give them a present for it. But this was the least of my concerns so I let it go.

    – apparently, they used to give them an actual physical gift, and have switched over to donations to charity instead.

    – I’m also apparently the first person to ever go to Jane about it. I tried to point out that other people might not feel comfortable pushing back on it, so maybe you should be more clear about it being voluntary, but again, I don’t know if anything will come of that. She seemed confident it was just me who has a problem with things, but I have a hard time believing that.

    So… a mixed bag. I made my concerns known, but no telling if anything will change. I’ve decided I will not donate this year, and if Wakeen does show up to talk to me in person, I’ll tell him I’m refraining from donating this year, and if he wants to push back on that, I’ll point out that I’ve already discussed my concerns with the donations with Jane. If he pushes back on that he’s getting an earful about the lack of transparency/Jane assured me it was voluntary.

    (also, to clarify the company structure, there’s the owners, then a handful of directors, then various projects led by managers under that. The owners and directors are not the same people. It’s a relatively small company that’s gone from 30 people to 100 people in only a couple of years, so most of the long-timers have worked together for years and years.)

  107. Athena*

    Would you question an employee’s judgment if you discovered that they practiced a non-mainstream religion or spirituality?

    I live in the Bible Belt (USA) and practice a deeply personal “alternate spirituality” – think nature-based but not not religious/deity driven although it shares a lot of the same symbolism of many Pagan religions. I’m not real far up in the chain of command but I do have some direct reports which are typically student workers or interns. Some of my jewelry represents my spirituality namely a pendant I wear – it is a pentagram with a moon symbols laid on top of the star which has a moonstone crystal on top. At first glance it’s hard to read but eventually you can figure out that the bottom of the layer is a pentagram. I’ve never talked about my beliefs or practiced them at work (with the exception of my jewelry) because I do not want others to feel I trying to impose my beliefs and also because it is personal and does not belong at work. Pentagrams also seem to scare people in my area.

    Yesterday I was leaving a metaphysical store owned by a friend and passed a co-worker on the sidewalk. We acknowledged each other in passing and I wondered how it could affect me in a professional sense if the dots were connected and people found out. I work in the public sector so there are measures to protect against harassment or unfair treatment but biases are still there. Would you question the judgment of your employee?

    1. Emi.*

      I wouldn’t, unless you were badgering people about it, which you’re not. I would probably think your beliefs are incorrect and maybe sort of silly, but it certainly would not affect how I thought of or treated you at work or as a person. Also, I would’nt conclude anything about your actual religious beliefs or practices based on just the necklace you described–if I even noticed the pentagram, I’d think you might only be into the aesthetic, or into some mass-market pseudoscience spinoff of paganism (ok, I might judge that a little, but only in my head).

      I’m also not remotely scared of pentagrams so I’m probably not your target demographic here, but I hope this helps.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Also in the Bible Belt, and nope. I literally would not care if you worshiped paint chips as long as you’re not pushing it on people or your beliefs are not interfering with me doing my job–for example, if you spread your paint chips all over my space.

    3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      Not in the least. I only care about other people’s religious beliefs if they are trying to foist them on me or people I care about.

  108. Former Borders Refugee*

    Update on last week’s round of Overthinking It (which is the title of my autobiography) in terms of “hey you’re overqualified for this job you applied for, would you like to discuss other positions?”

    They DID respond on Monday, and I had a very pleasant phone interview on Wednesday! The company doesn’t have any positions that they thought I would be right for at the moment, but they told me to keep an eye on their careers page, and if I see something that looks right, I should email her directly, and if SHE sees something, she’ll give me a call. So that’s very positive!

    Thank you to everyone who told me to CHILL THE HELL OUT. I’ve had the “hey, would you like to set up an interview!” thing turn into ghosting before, and I really wanted to try to prevent that if I could.

  109. Inky*

    Any suggestions on how to discourage an employee from bringing in gifts for the owners/managers, or how to handle it if they bring them in after being told not to?

    When the holiday season started, I tried to make it as clear as possible that there was zero expectation of gifts, that gifts were NOT wanted, and that it is a really bad idea to gift upwards. Later the owners came by and made the same points. One of our newer employees (6 monthish), has latched onto wanting to give us gifts despite that, enough so that the owners and I (and then me again after the owners asked me to) told her specifically, no gifts for higher ups. However twice since then I have overheard her telling another coworker ‘so they said no gifts but I’m still trying to decide what to get them’. Both times I have reminded her as firmly as possible NO GIFTS. I feel like I am undermined because I do not like or celebrate Christmas and don’t hide that, so possibly she thinks it’s just me being a grinch, but at this point the owners have said this twice as well. We’re not discouraging gifts among themselves, just not to managers or owners.

    Is there any way to make this clearer? I’m afraid she’s still going to turn up with gifts, and if so, how do I handle that? It feels really mean to straight up reject a gift, but on the other hand this has veered into ‘intentionally disobeying multiple direct orders’ territory and I’m afraid accept a gift would signal that she can ignore things like that in the future.

    1. Lumen*

      In terms of making it clear to the coworker that this isn’t expected, wanted, or considered appropriate, have you explained why that’s so? Do they understand that giving gifts upward can be seen by both managers and coworkers as trying to curry favor, especially when it’s been discouraged? Do they understand that this is not a personal rejection of gift-giving, but something you’ve all agreed is important to the company culture? To make it really clear, you need to explain the reasoning behind the rule and warn them that ignoring it will negatively impact the way their colleagues perceive them.

      But I wouldn’t think of this as you giving an ‘order’ and them being ‘subordinate’. Save that attitude and language for infractions that really warrant it. Gift-giving is sensitive because it’s an important part of how we bond with each other; that impulse is a positive one, even if this coworker’s approach is inappropriate to the situation. Maybe try to figure out how to help them re-channel that impulse into something more acceptable (bringing treats to the office for everyone to share, for example) rather than just repeating NO GIFTS.

      If they do ignore all this — they won’t be re-directed, they won’t accept the reasoning — and bring you a gift anyway, that is just an opportunity for another conversation. Close the door, sit them down, and tell them that while you can appreciate their impulse to give gifts, this was really inappropriate and what’s NOT appreciated is them ignoring over and over being told to let it go. Tell them that you hope they’ll take this to heart and in the future, not undermine the company culture like that. Sometimes people have to learn lessons the hard way, but ‘the hard way’ doesn’t necessarily mean disciplinary action.

      1. Inky*

        Yes, have absolutely explained why, multiple times, both myself and the owners. Every other person at work understands this and why. I think the person is just … really attached to the idea of work doing holiday stuff – they have also twice brought up things like the owners giving gifts or organizing a potluck as solid facts, and when I’m like, why haven’t I heard any of this, the owners are confused as well because they never mentioned any of it. They are also a very anxious person so I’m worried about my ‘firm’ coming off as ‘mean’.

        I mean, as far as order goes, even if they bring a gift in it’s not like i’m going to write them up for it. I just find it really strange that despite being directly told at least four times by multiple people, DO NOT, they are still planning on doing so, while acknowledging that it isn’t wanted. It makes me question if this will be their approach to other more work related duties as well, how much can I trust them to do what they are told to and not what they think is nice but is actually making things worse?

        It’s also complicated for me personally because I despise getting gifts and the whole Christmas season is laden with horrible anxiety and stress and dealing with boundary crossing of people who will not respect my wishes. I hate, hate, hate it and the thought of having to go the next three weeks living in dread of this person bringing in a gift that I am then going to have to decide whether or not to reject (oh god I am the worst person ever who is mean enough to reject a GIFT etc) or accept and fake liking. I am doing my best to separate that from the work related reasons not to gift, but the last time I overheard her bring this up I had to step out and decide not to address it that time because it made me so angry and upset I knew I couldn’t be professional about it.

      2. WellRed*

        Are you explaining too much, rather than just “no.” I realize this sounds ridiculous but sometimes the message can get lost when explaining something to a person who has her own ideas in her head.

    2. CAA*

      “I’m so sorry, but I can’t accept this. I thought we had made it quite clear that it’s not o.k. to buy gifts for the managers or owners here. I’m sorry you were confused about that and hope you’ll be able to find another use for this gift.”

      1. zora*

        This. Just go ahead and reject it. But practice saying this in a calm, matter of fact tone. Not like you’re stressed or annoyed. It will take practice to do that, but be very matter of fact about it, and walk away.

        The employee will deal, because as you said, you made it very clear. If they don’t get it, that’s their problem to deal with their feelings.

        1. Artemesia*

          Ultimately the only way to deal with someone who won’t take ‘no’ for an answer on something like this is to hand the gift back. Many cultures have dances of protestation and ‘oh you shouldn’t have’ when gifts are in fact absolutely expected; the only way to make it clear is to not accept the gift. (if she had not been clearly told ‘no’ then you would accept it and discuss it later for next year, but she has been told ‘no’ many times and so refusing the gift is the only way to be taken seriously.)

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Let her know that she has been heard saying, she knows not to give a gift and is still wondering what to get. Tell her that you feel you have failed to get the message to her. Then go on to say, “If you buy these gifts, they will be returned to you unopened, because you have been told four times that gifting is not appropriate.”

  110. CA pay check*

    Today is my last day at my job and I haven’t been paid. California has clear rules about this and I’m sure my employer wants nothing more than fix this so they don’t get and trouble. But gosh, I start my new job on Monday and the last thing I need is to still be chasing my money from this place… End of rant…

    1. MCM*

      Does California have a Labor Board? Call them if you do not see the check by 4:00 p.m. They may choose to pay you right before you leave at the end of the day.

    2. CAA*

      I’m assuming you gave at least 3 days notice? The day is only half over, so they may still come through. If they don’t, and you feel kindly towards them, tell them that you need them to mail the final check that was legally due today no later than Monday and you definitely expect to have it in your hand no later than Friday. If you don’t feel kindly, then call the DLSE on Monday and file a claim.

  111. Anonymous3454*

    I’m currently in a strange spot at work. My boss has left to another department within the company and would like to take me to his department as a lateral move. However, his now former grandboss, has offered me to apply for his position (which was downgraded to Director), which would be a promotion in title for me and hopefully a salary bump. My boss is supportive in either choice, however, I think he’d prefer to bring me a long to his department to be spiteful to his now former grandboss. I’m a little worried that the grandboss might be doing the same thing by requesting that I interview as there is bad blood there. I guess my question have you all interviewed for an internal position within the same department and what advice would you give if it was a drama situation that the individual left? I wasn’t a part of the drama, but could be associated, as my boss and I are close.

    The interview would be with Grandboss and Great Grandboss. I’m not sure what the question would be, as it’s apparent I can do the job (currently doing it in the interim), I think there will be a lot of questions around “fit”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yes, think about what is best for you. I hope that Boss has more reasons to bring you along and it’s not just for spite. If the only reason is for spite, I would take a long, hard, cold, detached look at this situation. Maybe pretend you are giving advice to a friend in a remarkably similar setting, what would you tell the friend?

        Is this boss a vindictive person? Does he usually lash out at others and drag other people into the fracas? Okay so maybe he is not extreme like this. Bottom line which job would be in the best interest of your career?

  112. Fishcakes*

    If I’m applying to communications jobs that entail a small amount of design or work in design software, should I bring a physical copy of my portfolio if I’m interviewed? And where is the best place to put a digital portfolio? I don’t particularly want to make my own website.

    1. EddieSherbert*

      You can bring in a physical copy, but in my experience, if that’s not the main focus of your job, you likely won’t use it. Thinking back to my interview for my current job, I did bring a very thin three ring binder with resume copies and a few sheets of my design work. I did not use it/show it.

      I also brought in a DVD with portfolio stuff on it and a resume reel (my job is 50% video work), but that was requested by my interviewer, and I never would have thought to bring that otherwise!!

      Otherwise, I have a free and simple Weebly site for my portfolio that I thought was pretty easy to set up.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        … but countering myself right away (haha), I remember another interview during that same job hunt where I was interviewed by a panel and they spent a lot of time looking at that binder.

        So I guess the answer is that I can’t imagine bringing it would hurt you, and might help you! :)

    2. MissDisplaced*

      I would bring a few samples at least even if not a whole book. If you don’t want to make a whole website, Linkedin has a place for a portfolio samples.

  113. Dzhymm*

    So at this job our team has daily standup meetings where we go around; the format is “What I did yesterday, what I’m doing today, and any impediments I’m dealing with”.

    My status for today: “Yesterday I was out, the day before I worked on . Today I quit, and I am now remarkably free of impediments”.

    Too bad I didn’t have a mic to drop :)

      1. Dzhymm*

        Befuddlement, mostly… “You wha?….” It was not entirely unexpected, though; my displeasure had been well-known at that point.

  114. Plus sized woman*

    Does anyone have any fashion advice for how to look professional when you’re plus sized? I don’t mean specific stores, but what types of clothes to wear. I find that things that look OK on thinner women make me look more… sexualized? than I want to look. For example, button up shirts don’t work well for my big bust. How do I not emphasize my bust without wearing a baggy tent… Also, pants that fit my stomach are baggy around my thighs which looks sloppy. I don’t know, I just can’t figure this out. Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I wear a lot of dresses. They tend to give an automatic impression of “being dressed up”. Wrap dresses or fit & flare styles also are pretty forgiving.

      1. Plus sized woman*

        I have never been a dress person but I think I’ll have to bite the bullet and try some on.

      2. Artemesia*

        Wrap dresses are great. And tunics can work well with pants and with appropriate draping and design give a sleeker put together look. Shell type blouses under jackets with a highish neck can also work for larger busted women — buttons are difficult. As for the bad fitting pants — tailoring. It is really worth it to buy a couple of pair of really good work pants and then have them tailored to fit properly. Wish I had discovered this early in my career rather than at the end. I had different figure issues than yours, but I think tailoring to fit is very often the answer.

    2. La Revancha*

      I’m not plus sized so I’m likely ignorant, but do stores that make specific clothing for plus size fit more appropriately than regular sized clothes? If not, you could shop around for a brand that doesn’t do the things you don’t like and buy some clothes from them.

      1. Athena*

        Not always, and as a plus-sized woman I wish it were as easy as finding a brand that just “works”.

        Some cuts are scaled up versions of “normal” clothes which doesn’t work on a plus-sized frame and leave areas unpolished by being too baggy/tight, too long/short, etc. Plus, the clothing patterns themselves tend to be awful and gaudy with huge butterflies or animal print and ruffles here and there.

        OP, in my profession I do a lot of climbing around pulling cables, working in small network closets, etc. and wear pants with a cardigan and different colored shirt every day. I’m in between pear and apple-shaped so I buy pants that fit me around the waist and have the thigh and inseam tailored. I used to get this done professionally but I have taught myself to tailor my clothes to save money. Maybe professional tailoring could be an option if finances permit.

        1. Plus sized woman*

          You articulated exactly why I hate plus size clothing.

          I never thought of tailoring to fix the pants issue – I will have to see how much it costs.

    3. Temperance*

      I don’t own a single button down, and I pretty much live in dresses and skirts. Button downs are not really made for women with any kind of chest action going on, and, IMO, any one big enough to accommodate boobage will just look weirdly large everywhere else.

      1. Plus sized woman*

        Yes, that’s exactly the problem! And if it fits everywhere else it’s too tight on the boobs, gapes between buttons and has a plunging neckline.

    4. Bobstinacy*

      I have a lot of the same fit problems that you do and honestly at this point in my life I wear mostly dresses and tights. I only own three pairs of pants – two for working out and one pair of jeans.

      It doesn’t entirely stop feeling sexualized – with my body shape I can either cover it completely and look like a fashion victim or wear what I’m comfortable in and get some leers :/

      1. Plus sized woman*

        I wish it didn’t have to be that way! Past experiences have made me really wary of getting too much male attention. I’m trying to be more confident and tell myself it’s not me that’s creating a problem, it’s them.

    5. Sue No-Name*

      The pants problem you mention sounds like it might be handled well by a tailor. I found that getting alterations done by a tailor was more cost-effective than I had expected (though I live in a high population density, working-class area so YMMV).

      1. Plus sized woman*

        There are lots of tailors around here, so I will have to check that out. I’ve never had anything tailored but it sounds like it might be a good option.

    6. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      What is the dress code or culture at your workplace? Can you say more about the shape of your body?

      My workplace is casual, but I tend to dress up more than most of my team. I’m plus-sized too, and my concern is more about looking sloppy (or having people perceive me as sloppy) than looking sexual. I’m tall, generally hourglass shaped, and I carry a lot of weight in a “spare tire,” so I have a prominent lower belly. All this detail just as context in case it’s helpful in determining whether my advice is useful to you or not!

      So, advice:

      1) Wrap dresses, worn with a camisole to raise the neckline. (I could never wear a wrap dress without a cami or tank top at work.) I wear a-line dresses with a lot of flow to the skirt; I find that more closely-fitting wrap dresses feel too “sexy” for me.

      2) A go-to for me: dark trouser jeans, a loose blouse that hits just below my hip line (to conceal my lower belly), and a fitted blazer, which I don’t button. The blazer tones down the looseness of the blouse, so it doesn’t look like a tent.

      Also: Try Gwynnie Bee, which rents clothing (like old-school Netflix). You pay a set amount per month, which gets you a certain number of items out at a time. When you’re done with one, you send it back and they send something else. I’ve been using it for five years, but it could also be useful just for a couple of months so you can try a bunch of styles and brands and figure out what works well for you.

      I’ll post a comment with links to some specific example of the stuff I wear.

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        Wrap dresses: https://www.kiyonna.com/plus-size-clothing/Wrap_Dresses/12131806

        Dark trouser jeans: http://www.nydj.com/teresa-trouser-in-premium-lightweight-denim-in-plus/d/3133C5641

        Loose blouse: https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/product/1295969/nydj-crepe-henley-blouse-plus-size?color=BLUE%20TOPAZ

        Examples of outfits (except I’m bigger than these women, and most of them are wearing slim-cut jeans because that’s what’s in style right now; I prefer trouser-style jeans):

        https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1a/c1/bc/1ac1bc3c4b4c634aebbe63f0bfb77c13.jpg

        https://i.pinimg.com/originals/96/5e/76/965e76d95c7a5239996f43f962ca7dba.jpg

        https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/d1/84/d1d18418ed81d69f7329380bec6479af.jpg

        1. Plus sized woman*

          Thanks for posting these!

          I wish I could wear the dark trouser jeans but I think they would only work for casual Fridays.

          I like the idea of the loose blouse. I hate my stomach! I’ve been thinking of trying longer tunic style tops as well.

          When you wear a cami or tank top under a wrap dress, do you try to match the colour or go for a contrasting colour? The few dresses I’ve tried on are usually way too low cut on me, and my bra shows as well. I’ve never seen anyone around here who wears something under a dress to raise the neckline. (Maybe I just need to get out more.)

          1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

            I tend to wear a contrasting cami, because it bugs me when the blacks (or whatever color) don’t match perfectly. So I have a little stable of cheap camis from Old Navy (and etc.) in black, dark gray, white, and navy blue.

            I looooove Not Your Daughter’s Jeans blouses. They’re usually on sale for around $50 at Nordstrom Rack and I snatch them up whenever I’m in need of a refresher.

      2. Plus sized woman*

        Your body sounds a lot like my body.

        The dress code is business casual and we can wear jeans on Fridays.

        I feel like my clothing is impacting the way people perceive me, and also my confidence. I would like to move into a better job but my closet has dwindled to the point where I don’t have anything I could wear to an interview.

        I checked out Gwynnie Bee but they don’t ship to Canada. :/

        I appreciate all the suggestions – I’ll have to check out dresses and tailoring. Budget is a limitation but I really need to build up my wardrobe.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Two good places to get this stuff more affordably are ThreadUp (search by brand; otherwise you have to search through soooo much bad plus size stuff) and Facebook resale sites (one in particular: FabFatshion Plus Size Resale; the organizers are two women who live near the wholesale center that Gwynnie Bee sells its older items to, so they get a huge variety of affordable used clothing all the time).

    7. Gertrude*

      Hi friend! I have to wear business casual / business formal every day. I concur that you need to find a brand that fits your body. For example, Talbots dresses are my go to, but their jackets and pants do not work for me. I go to Torrid for my work dress pants. Torrid, however, rarely has tops that I wear.

      I’m large busted and I’d say step #1 is a good bra. Step #2 is to find the cuts of styles that work for you. Anything that comes in under the bust doesn’t work for me. A flowy top with straight leg work pants does. A dress that is straight down or A-line works when I pair it with a blazer.

      I don’t wear skin tight clothing (more of a preference issue). I often wear a nice shell/flowy shirt with a cardigan (Ann Taylor has great 2XL ones), loose pencil skirt, and flats. Sometimes I will wear a dress with a blazer, or a suit, or dress pants with a top. My recommendation is to look for things that are comfortable and tailor clothes accordingly. I have clothes that fit certain parts of my body but are then baggy, but I just pop into a tailor and get it fitted to my body.

      I own ZERO button down shirts and I don’t wear anything that buttons over my chest. My dresses all have very high necks but are still fun and I accessorize with necklaces so I don’t feel like I’m losing the fashion to try and contain my significant cleavage. :) Bottom line…dress YOUR body. I get bummed sometimes when I realize that I can’t wear an exact replica of an outfit I’ve seen, but then there are things that look great on where it wouldn’t work for a less-curvy person.

      I will say that at Nordstrom you can work with a personal stylist. It doesn’t cost money, but they do make a commission off of what you buy. I went there when I needed a formal dress and the thought of finding one that fit drove me to tears. It was great. They ask for your sizes ahead of time and pulled tons of clothes. Though I only purchased the one dress, it was really helpful to have a professional help me see what works on my body and what would need to be tailored, etc.

      1. Plus sized woman*

        I didn’t know that about Nordstrom. I did get their help finding a bra that fits right, and it was a huge help – people kept commenting that I’d lost weight, when I hadn’t. If I could find a few things that fit right, I can look for those brands on ThredUp and places like that. It really sounds like tailoring is going to be the way to go.

    8. HannahS*

      If you like the look of a buttoned-up cardigan (I wear them as tops, often with a skirt), it’s good to learn some basic hand-sewing in order to sew them shut. It’s like magic; they don’t gape at all. You don’t need to do a particularly good job, because as long as you do it on the inside, no stitches will be visible anyway! I sew mine shut from the bottom up to the second-from-top button, usually. Because they’re stretchy I can treat them like a pullover. I find that a solid-coloured cotton cardigan can look much fancier than just a t-shirt while being just as comfortable.

      1. Plus sized woman*

        That’s brilliant! I’ve been thinking about learning to sew my own clothes but this is a good place to start.

    9. Plus and Short*

      I have the worst problem, which is being both plus sized and very short. Finding pants that fit are a miracle and dresses only make me look shorter and pregnant! All have the potential to make me look sloppy, but tucking anything in is forbidden!

      My go-to is generally a nice dressy stretch pant in dark colors (charcoal, black, brown, navy) and slightly longer tops and blouses with a tailored cut or wrap style. Rarely do button-up blouses and blazers make it into my wardrobe as both tend to cut me off and make me wider and shorter. Instead, I rely on a blouse with a longer open sweater instead of a blazer.
      I’ve found that keeping things all in same color range helps keep it more polished and put together, as well was adding a slight heel that matches the color of the pant (makes legs look longer).

    10. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I’ve never actually tried to have anything custom made, but perhaps you could look into having one or two pairs of pants made for you? It’s a really irksome problem, especially if you are apple shaped at all. I have started wearing jeggings and similar, which I always hated before, because they actually fit my legs and paradoxically make me look more trim than loose pants do.

      I’m by no means an expert but I bought a cheap second hand sewing machine on eBay a few years ago and I have started doing some simple, totally non-professional tailoring. I figure the clothes I’m not wearing are probably a lost cause anyway so if I really mess them up it’s no big deal. There are tons of tutorials about making your clothes fit better out there for inspiration.

  115. Pancakes*

    Any tips on preparing to start a new job? I’m starting a new job a week from Monday. It is only my first full time job since I graduated from college a few years ago (so I’ve only done the starting a new non-internship job thing once) and I’m hoping to do really well there!

    Are there any tips you have or rituals that you do to prepare for a new job?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Buy a cute notebook and take lots of notes on everything. As someone who has trained multiple people, it is incredibly frustrating to have to repeat the same thing over and over again.

      1. Lumen*

        +1 Notes notes notes notes notes notes notes. If you don’t think it’s important, write it down anyway.

    2. Lumen*

      First off, congratulations!

      1. When I’m feeling anxious, especially about work, I sneak into a bathroom stall or stairwell and do the ‘Wonder Woman’ pose for a couple of minutes. Look it up – apparently it can actually increase hormones that help you feel confident and centered.

      2. Figure out a mantra or something to say silently to yourself when you need it. Something like “I am here to learn” is useful to me, especially when I get overwhelmed in a new environment (“I’m not stupid or unqualified – I’m here to learn. No one expects perfection on Day 1 – I’m here to learn. It’s okay to ask for help or clarification – I’m here to learn.”)

      3. Say thank you without fail to everyone who trains you on something or teaches you something new, whether it’s vital job information or simply where the extra paper towels are. It’s distracting and often draining to train a new person, so make sure you’re a sensitive and respectful recipient of the gift of time and attention that your new colleagues are giving you.

      4. Be patient with others. They may not warm up to you socially right away. They may be stressed out because they’re overworked (and hopefully you’ll ramp up soon so you can help alleviate that stress). They may simply not be good trainers or communicators. Don’t expect yourself to be perfect right away, but don’t expect perfection from them, either.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Make it a habit to learn at least one person’s name and what they do each day. We don’t just have to get oriented to the work but we also have to get oriented to the people around us. If you make it a habit to know people by name and know what they do, in a bit you will find that you will know who to ask what question of and in turn a while later you will find that you are learning your way around.

      Expect that you will have to show more interest in them than they will show interest in you. It evens out after a bit, but initially this can feel awkward especially if you don’t expect it.

      Go to bed early. This is an investment. New jobs can be unexpectedly exhausting. Getting extra rest will help you feel more equipped to handle the next day in The World of Everything New. You won’t have to go to bed early forever, but plan on doing it a lot initially.

      If your workplace is not near your home do a test run before your start date, so you can get an idea of your commute time. Look around for places to grab a lunch, know where you will park and so on.

  116. Jessica*

    Hi all! This is actually a question about my husband’s work, but I read here and he doesn’t. :) He has a PhD in industrial engineering (specializing in 3D printing) and has been working in industry for almost two years after finishing his PhD. His position only required a master’s, and his starting salary was fairly low given his degree (70K — and he knows people coming straight from undergrad got hired at 65K) but the position seemed like a good fit. He still enjoys the job and is well-liked/respected by his colleagues, but he has had trouble getting a project that he can be the lead on, and so he hasn’t been able to put together a good justification for a promotion/pay raise. He just proposed a project that would help him do this, and got a “yellow light” in response (aka “good idea, keep working on it, but we can’t assign you any $$ or people to bring it to fruition”).
    He’s going to talk to his manager, but was it unreasonable to hope for a promotion within 2 years? (The promotion would be mainly going up a level in titles, from Teapot Design Specialist to Sr. Teapot Design Specialist.) I know my description is biased, but does it sound like he’s undervalued, or is this just a normal functions of the working world? Would looking for another job now make him seem like a job-hopper? (Aside from an internship several years ago, this job is his only work experience in the US.)
    (Also of note: he was not a US citizen when he started the PhD program, so it was mostly a means to staying in the US. He had his green card by the time he was applying for jobs, and should be eligible to apply for citizenship in a few months.)

    1. Pat Benetardis*

      Unless there is a heritage of time-based promotions, I do not feel it is appropriate. And as a manager, I really don’t care to hear my reports say stuff like “I’ve been here 2.5 years without a promotion” when they’re performing at the same level as others in their current role.

      Requests for promotions should be based on results. I think he he should approach his manager about opportunities that will allow him to grow.

    2. NW Mossy*

      2 years is pretty early for a first promotion in most fields – you generally need to be achieving at an extremely high level and for the political stars to line up right. Most managers of teams with people at different levels in the same job family will generally have a clear idea of about how many people they need at each level, but that won’t necessarily line up with the advancement desires of everyone on the team.

      He can certainly look for other work at this point, and his work history doesn’t read problematic to me. That said, it feels to me like you’re expecting that his advanced education should pay a significant dividend, but that’s often not reality in industry. The fact that those without advanced degrees came in at pretty comparable salary levels to him is telling you that the Ph.D. isn’t carrying a lot of market value for the sort of job he’s doing currently.

      In most fields, the biggest leaps forward in terms of responsibility and pay tend to come in the 5-10 year range. That’s when you finally start to have enough of a work history where you’ve proven what you can do; until then, you’re selling yourself more on your potential rather than what you’ve already achieved.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      It’s hard to say if he’s undervalued, or if the company just doesn’t have the funding for the type of projects your husband wants to do (and the promotion/raise that goes with it). It’s that way at my company, lots of good people are more idle than they should be because it’s difficult to get the company to invest in new projects.

      At 2 years, wanting to change jobs for more responsibility would not be seen as job hopping generally, and especially if this was his first major job in the industry out of school.

  117. Jenika*

    Hey, just asking for a little advice. I’m relatively young and working a very low paying job with no benefits (it’s in healthcare) while I finish school. Long story short, I’ve not been feeling well the past 2 weeks. I had been ignoring it. This week though, I woke up on Tuesday and felt terrible. I got up to start getting ready for work and had to keep sitting back down. I took my temperature and found I had a fever. I finally decided to call in and cancel my shift. It was within an hour before I was supposed to be at my shift. Needless to say, I got chewed out by my manager who said some things about how I was irresponsible and didn’t care about the clients we served. I totally understand I had that coming, it was very short notice, but I had no intentions of calling out until that morning. I ended up going to the doctor that day and finding out I had mono. I had to take 2 more days off this week. I’m seriously worried I’m going to get fired. Is there any way I can salvage this?

    1. La Revancha*

      Your boss is an ass! You being at work spreading mono is worse than not being there. Does he know now that you have mono? If not, you need to mention it.

    2. Natalie*

      If you get fired, it’s because your boss is a completely unreasonable asshole, not because of anything you did. Someone in HEALTH CARE should not be at work with a fever, much less mono, getting other people sick.

      Definitely mention that it is mono if you haven’t already, and follow whatever lifting/activity restrictions the doctor gives you (don’t want to rupture that spleen).

      When you’re dealing with an irrational person, it’s sometimes comforting to believe that if you just follow all of their crazy expectations you can avoid ever being targeted by them. But that is a myth. It’s like assuming you can do things to influence what lotto numbers you get or when the bus comes.

    3. TCO*

      The very nature of sickness is that it’s unpredictable–I think we’ve all experienced that day where we wake up thinking we can go to work, only to discover, whether before or after we arrive at work, that it’s really not going to happen. Your boss is a jerk.

      I’d follow up with your boss to say something like, “I know I’ve missed some work this week; my doctor says I have mono. Without proper rest, I will take longer to recover and that would probably cause me to miss more work long-term. I’m also concerned about spreading a contagious illness to our clients. I will do my very best to provide you as much notice as possible if I need to take future sick days, but the nature of any illness is unpredictable. I hope you understand.”

    4. Bobstinacy*

      I’m job hunting again after being sick for a couple of months (thanks for going after my liver and spleen mono, you’re a star) and I’m hoping I can get some advice on how to NOT be a manager.

      I work in a field that has a hard time keeping older more experienced workers for a variety of reasons and since I’m older, have almost 10 years of experience, and have done managing/supervising before I get put into those roles whether I want them or not.

      At this point in my life I want a job where I can show up on time, make the products that the business needs, then go home. I don’t want to be in charge of training, hiring, food cost, recipe modification, ordering, inventory, etc.

      Any tips on how to make my goals clear without sounding like I’m not a team player? Also any tips on how to keep from getting a battlefield promotion once I’m in? That’s how I ended up managing the last three places I worked and I’d like to keep it from happening again.

    5. Artemesia*

      You were sick. You have a diagnosis of a fairly serious disease and will be lucky if you don’t have to take a lot more time off. Your boss is ridiculous. Can you talk to HR? Would that help? And how can you work with patients with a viral illness?

    6. Half-Caf Latte*

      I’m going to go a bit against the grain here, because I’m seeing lots of “well you were sick what could you have done?’ -type comments.

      I’m in healthcare, and it’s standard practice to have a “call out time.” Ours is at least two hours before the start of your shift. This is in order to give the supervisors time to assign float staff, or make calls for overtime. When staff call out too close to the start of the shift, or no-show, it does have an impact on patient safety and quality of care.

      If you didn’t follow the call-out policy, your manager does have a right to bring that up with you, and it’s fair to point out that calling out late does impact patient care. It certainly sounds like your manager went well over the jerk line in the way you were treated, but if you didn’t follow the policy, that is the key to salvaging this situation for the future.

      For lots of healthcare workers with short commutes, this can and does mean literally setting an alarm for earlier than your usual wake up time, figuring out if you feel well enough to work, and then either going back to bed until your normal wake up or for the day.

  118. AAM Newbie*

    Hi All,
    This is my first time ever posting here, but have lurked for 4-5 years…..I feel like I know some of you and, Elizabeth West, you are either my long lost sister or you’ve worked the same places as I have! Seems like I’m always saying “Me, too!” To your posts and comments.

    Anyways, I’m seeking some input. Obv, lately AAM has been reposting Christmas posts from years past. I’ve been reading on office gifting….since I’m in a new job (since mid October) with a group of folks into Secret Santa, etc. I was especially interested in the gifting up stuff. This new job is with a company that is run by folks who belong to a religion that is considered by most to be a cult. We are based in Clearwater, FL (hint hint).

    This morning we came in to an email from the CEO’s ” Communicator.” Yes, that is her title. She is tequesting $20 from each of us to buy the boss (who is a mucky muck within this religious organization) a gift. Our director of finance, who is the CEO’s mom, has graciously said we can even have the $20 deducted from our paychecks! How gracious of her. Myself and the folks like me (not a member of this religious organization) are vehemently against contributing, for all the reasons Allison has outlined in her posts on the subject. I know our small group is going to be asked why we aren’t contributing. Please help me find a way of saying no without coming across….I don’t know, mean, weird, or like we hate the boss. We aren’t and we don’t, we just either can’t afford it or don’t believe in gifting up. When I am asked, I plan on using my medical bills excuse so I’m good. But the others…….None of us wants this to come back and bite us.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Run away. That particular group is notorious for trying to swindle money out of people. It might start small with something like this, but before you know it, they’ll be pushing courses on you and expecting you to put yourself in debt up the wazoo.

    2. Reba*

      Your workplace sounds… interesting.

      But yeah, I think your instinct is right. My advice is just to be as boring as possible–don’t let them get into litigating how exactly you all should spend your money/whether your spending priorities are correct. “It’s not in the budget.” “I can’t give money.” “I understand this is an office tradition, but it’s simply not in the budget.” Rinse, repeat. If I were you I would avoid apologizing for it–since you’re doing nothing wrong–but you know your office and you might find that softening the message helps.

      Good luck!

    3. Lumen*

      It’s acceptable to say you aren’t comfortable with your paycheck being deducted for gift-giving. No reason they should need to do that, and I would watch the fine print on allowing them to do that ever.

      Also, runnnnnnnnnnnn.

    4. Em*

      “It’s unfortunately not in my budget, but thanks for asking!” It’s ambiguous, but gets the point that you’re not participating.

      1. Isben Takes Tea*

        This. You don’t need to justify it to anyone: just repeat “It’s not in my budget.”

        In my experience, “It’s not in my budget” is much better than “I can’t afford it,” because people seem to argue with “affordability” (which is based on assumed gross numbers) but not budget (since that involves unknown net numbers).

    6. Elizabeth West*

      I agree with everyone on the wording of “It’s not in the budget, sorry.” Keep saying it, and stick to it–and I’d keep an eye on my paycheck for any unauthorized deductions.

      And I’m sorry, but I’d rather flip burgers than work for these folks, if they’re who I think they are.

      1. zora*

        Yeah, just keep it simple and repeat. And I say this all the time, but practice in a mirror ahead of time!! Seriously. Practice having a very neutral tone, but polite and practice saying it repeatedly in the same tone. The more you practice, the easier it will be to say it in the moment, honestly.

    7. twig*

      Hey I worked for a company run by people from the same religious group! (but in the Sacramento, CA area) There was some pretty heavy nepotism in the company. (CEO’s wife, exwife, brother and kids all worked at the company. there were several married couples as well as sibling pairs working there — all members of the church)

      I think that everyone has given you good input so far.

      Some off-topic advice for you: Be VERY careful about office politics — especially if you are not entirely sure who is and is not a member of the religious group. at the company where I worked. I once said something in passing to the receptionist about being swamped or busy that day. The next thing I knew I was hauled to HR (which had a different name — I can’t remember what — it was like going to the vice principal’s office) to be lectured about managing my workload. In Short– be careful what you say to whom — if the person you are talking to is a member of the group, expect your words to go straight to the top of the company.

      Do you have to do training from the LRH school of business management too? that was… interesting.

  119. dan*

    I am starting a new job where I get to choose (!) between a mac and pc for my new workstation. I’ve used pc my whole life, but feel that since more people will likely use macs in my new environment, I should make the switch. I’m reasonably certain that I can pick it up quickly, but I’m worried that the learning curve will add to my new-job jitters. If you’ve had to switch from the pc/windows camp to mac land, how long did it take you to feel reasonably competent?

    1. Lumen*

      If appropriate (I don’t know your new workplace), maybe ask for the Mac but be honest about your level of comfort with the OS and ask for help as needed. This is an opportunity to learn a new skill, and hopefully your new job will be willing to help you out there.

    2. Athena*

      Hi! IT person here. It was a lot easier for me to become competent because I have a technical background but my parents struggled a lot when they started using their Macbooks. Are you in a field that regularly uses Macs or Mac-formatted files and software? If not, you may want to stay with a PC. PCs and Macs can “talk” to each other and infrastructure reasonably well now and you may not want the added stress of learning a new operating system.

    3. Anonymous1*

      One thing I would suggest is going to an Apple store if you have one nearby, and trying one out. They also sometimes offer hands-on “Mac Basics” classes that could help you get the hang of it. I’m not sure how much time you have, but Apple Store Geniuses are generally very helpful!
      (no, I don’t work for them, sadly.)

    4. Bobstinacy*

      I’m strictly a PC user but in my past life I did tech support and hardware repair for a school district that was 100% Mac.

      If you’re computer savvy it might be more of an adjustment since you’ll have a lot of instincts and built in habits that you’ll need to unlearn. That being said Macs are intuitive once you start working on them, the UI is user friendly and most things are logically set up.

      There’s the Mac vs PC thing that exists in our culture which I’m getting the sense is influencing you slightly. If you’d rather fit in with the culture then by all means get a Mac :)

      Side note: As a tech person my first step is always to Google something like “switching from PC to Mac differences”. Someone out there in the great wide internet have definitely written a guide you can use to make the transition less awkward if you do make the switch.

    5. Ramona Flowers*

      Try a Mac before deciding to switch, and consider it’s enough of a learning curve for you personally that it will compromise your performance in your new role.

      I now prefer Macs but when I first had to use one it drove me round the bend.

    6. Lady Jay*

      Gonna go against the grain here: I don’t consider myself a super tech savvy person (though my parents in their 60s think I am!) and switched very easily from a PC to a Mac. I find Macs consistently easy and intuitive to use, with less clicking about than on a PC. Enjoy!

    7. Julianne*

      I switched from a PC to Mac when I started my current job three years ago, and while I was apprehensive at first, I love the thing now. Having always used PCs in the past, I would not say that I find the Mac more “intuitive;” for me, I think it was more about making the switch from a Chromebook-type machine to a full sized laptop that I really liked, to be honest. Overall, though, I did not find switching systems to be as challenging or confusing as I’d feared I would, which was my primary concern. I do still have to Google “how to do X on a Mac,” but I got comfortable with it pretty quickly.

    8. Anonymous Educator*

      I’ve had some of my users switch, and it’s not a big deal (I haven’t heard any complaints). I basically tell them that their Control shortcuts are now Cmd.

      Control-C? Now Cmd-C.
      Control-V? Now Cmd-V.
      Control-S? Now Cmd-S.

      Not 100% of keyboard shortcuts translate that way, but a lot of the commonly used ones do.

    9. AshK434*

      I would just stick with the PC to be honest (and your reason for wanting to switch sounds rather weak and not really based on your own desire to switch). I own a Mac and love it for personal use, but would hate having it as a work computer. I work in Excel a lot and I absolutely loathe the Mac version of Excel because you can’t make pivot charts and some of the other features are different. Everything else though is fine it’s just that one particular feature that annoys me.

  120. AlwaysNapping*

    How do I ask for a reduction of hours?

    I work for a company that has a standard workweek of 7-5 with a half hour break, so 48 hours a week. We are paid overtime for the 8 hours. I was told this at the interview and said it would be fine, but now at 4 months in, it’s not so fine. I’m miserable.

    I’m just exhausted. I have a rambunctious toddler and I’m still going to school full time, or I’m supposed to be, I’m currently on a three-month term break because I couldn’t balance the work, commute, family, and school work. Oh, and sleeping. I’m not one of those people who can handle just 5 hours of sleep a night, I turn into a shell no matter how much coffee I drink, and I’m not crazy about coffee.

    I partially feel I shouldn’t bring it up at all, because maybe this is just what office work is? I otherwise like my job.

    1. La Revancha*

      You shouldn’t bring it up. You agreed to terms and were told upfront. I agree something needs to change but it won’t be the hours you’re working at this job.

      That said, not a lot of people can manage what you are managing. Can you find part time work while you’re in school, or go to school part time while you’re working full time? Or…. not work while you’re in school? Or… quit school if you don’t need it, since you have a full time job? Not sure of your exact situation so none of these may be applicable.

      1. AlwaysNapping*

        Sadly, financially speaking I can’t just go to school or even just work part-time. And I’d rather not just give up on finishing my bachelor’s because I managed to get one job without it. I plan to start looking for other jobs, but I would feel guilty quitting without mentioning there’s was something that would make it so I would stay. I’m the only one who does my job so it would but them in a bind.

        1. La Revancha*

          If you like your job, putting your degree on hold might be the best thing to do right now until you’re able to go back to school. How many semesters do you have left?

    2. Lisa B*

      4 months is still pretty new, so your options on pushing back what they very clearly told you are going to be pretty limited. How has your performance been? Does your boss gush over your work, or are you still making lots of newbie mistakes? Is there anyone else at the company doing something other than 48 hours? If it’s a very hard-and-fast-no-exceptions rule, you may not be able to do anything about your hours. Is there anything you can do on any other aspect that might help balance things out more? Part-time classes instead of full time? Sitter exchange for some quiet downtime hours once a week? A toddler, 50-hour a week job AND full time student is an awful lot to take on!!

    3. soupmonger*

      It may not be standard for office work but it is standard for the job you took on. You can’t ask for a reduction in hours – the terms were laid out for you before you took the job, and you agreed to them.

      I suggest you either look for another job or re-arrange your studies to suit. If I were your employer, I’d be taking a fairly dim view of a new employee to whom I’d clearly spelled out the job’s hours, only to have them try to reduce the hours four months in.

    4. MissDisplaced*

      Yeah, no. The company was upfront about the hours (wow, a company that actually was honest about it and pays for it) and you accepted the terms. You can’t realistically push back 4 months in, unless they happen to have some type of part-time positions available.
      I’m sorry it’s hard. Those ARE long hours when trying to juggle a young child and school too.

  121. QualityControlFreak*

    Starting a New Chapter, Workplace Edition

    About a month and a half ago my spouse passed away. My daughter and I are starting a new chapter in our lives, and of course this encompasses both our personal lives and work.

    In keeping with today’s thread I will focus on the work part. There are several things in play here. I have worked for this organization for nearly 10 years. There are issues at work, both with (mostly one) coworker and management. Most of my coworkers are really wonderful people, but unfortunately the one I have to work most closely with is awful. So awful that no one wants to work in proximity with them. I have tried to move internally but I think management has the idea that since I have proven I can endure this person, that this is now my job forever and I can never be moved. I had pretty much reconciled to “nothing is going to change here” and had been job hunting. The day before my husband went into the hospital where he subsequently received his terminal diagnosis I had just had a “rock star” interview.

    That all changed with the effective death sentence. My first priority was to maintain my health benefits so that I could care for my spouse without going bankrupt. My employer was helpful in advancing me sick leave to care for my husband and ensure my benefits were not interrupted. Most of my coworkers were kind and supportive. I was on a reduced schedule to allow me to take my spouse to treatments and care for him at home. When he passed they advanced me another week of leave. I am very grateful for everything they have done.

    I’ve had a pretty hard time coping with the loss of my best friend. Since he passed (on our daughter’s birthday) I have been back to work for exactly one week. As of today I have missed work the four weeks following his memorial. While I have had numerous physical effects (nausea, vomiting, inability to eat, insomnia) as well as emotional/psychological effects (panic attacks, flashbacks, crying jags), even I can’t understand why I can’t get my act together after a month and a half.

    I’ve already emailed an apology for my long absence, both to management and the people who have been covering essential tasks for me. My plan is to get my butt to work on Monday and work at least as long as it takes to pay back the loaned leave. But after that … I don’t know. I honestly care about the work we do and the people we serve, but the problems that were there before are still there and they’re not going away. Before my husband passed I had been informed that management wanted to restart some initiatives that could really benefit the organization. My particular skill set is needed to accomplish this effort. However, what is needed even more is a top-down understanding of and support for the role these policies play, and I just don’t see that. It’s more complex than that of course but this is already an epic.

    I guess my inclination is to go back, earn back the advanced leave, thank my kind coworkers and try to get everything running as smoothly as possible. And then assess. I want to be honorable in my actions, and I feel a responsibility to my organization and its members. But if I have learned anything from this nightmare it’s that no one has time to keep doing things that make them miserable. So if it looks like 10 more years of spinning my wheels, I may decide to cut my losses and move on.

    Is this just grief making me want to retreat from the world? Or close the door on a job/workplace which I associate with my spouse, who acted as a sounding board for me in dealing with work issues? I think that may be part of it, but the problems have been there throughout so I don’t think this is a purely emotional reaction. And yet, I’ve been pretty darn emotional of late so I’m second guessing myself. So I’m going to throw this out there to the fantastic AAM commentariat to try to get some perspective. Thoughts?

    Thanks to all for any insight you can offer.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I am so sorry for what you and your daughter are going through.

      It sounds like you could use some grief counseling/therapy. I’m sure you’re trying to be strong for your daughter and you need a safe outlet and place to process your own feelings. General advice is not to make any big changes in the year after a death, but you may need a fresh start in order to move forward after this kind of loss. A professional will be much better suited to help you make the right choices.

    2. TCO*

      I’m so sorry for your loss. Your grief is understandably immense and the challenges you’ve been facing in returning to work/living the life you used to consider “regular” sound entirely understandable. You’re only a few weeks in to a major loss and life change. I hope you’ve found a skilled therapist or support group to help you by developing some new coping skills while reminding you to be kind to yourself. “Not being able to get your act together” is an unfair way to judge yourself.

      As for work–why does it matter right now whether you have a long-term path? You know your immediate goals–return to work on a regular schedule and stay long enough to repay your leave. Beyond that, it sounds like you do really want to leave for reasons unrelated to your grief. It’s okay if your plan is the same as it was before your spouse’s death but it’s also okay if your priorities and plans have changed.

      If I were you, I’d give it at least 3-6 months, maybe longer, to reintegrate at work, see what the future holds for you there, build some new routines for you and your daughter, and then step back again to assess. Spending a bit of time doing that isn’t “wasting your time” or “spinning your wheels”–it’s stability and security in a time that you really need both. Remind yourself of that when works gets frustrating. I’m confident that a more clear path will emerge for you in time. Be well.

    3. fposte*

      Oh, I’m so sorry. But oh, my dear, “even I can’t understand why I can’t get my act together after a month and a half.” Really? Because I can, and I bet most everybody here can. This wasn’t a stubbed toe; this was a sinkhole eating part of your life and leaving the rest of it teetering and damaged. I think it’s the very shock that keeps you from seeing how unlikely it is that you’d be back in motion after six weeks. I super-agree with Detective Amy to find a professional to talk to.

      I also think your plan to go back for what seems like a secure and stable foundation for transition elsewhere is reasonable; I think the very process of putting things together and looking at other possibilities will give you a better idea of what you want to do. I don’t think it’s necessarily terrible even if it is the feelings about your bereavement up in the mix–as long as you’re pragmatic about pay, commute, and hours, it’s not likely to tank your life to change. But I also think it sounds like you have a decent manager and that you absolutely could say “Jane, I’m going to ask not to be the one put with Fergus this year.”

      1. Artemesia*

        So this. A month and a half is nothing for ‘getting on track’ after such a horrible loss and a person struggling to get their work back on track should not be the one who has to put up with the difficult employee. You might be in a great place to explicitly say that you have worked with Fergus for some time now and it makes work a nightmare and you really would like to move to another position or situation where you don’t have to put up with that while you are struggling to recover from your loss.

        1. QualityControlFreak*

          Yes. I actually have asked to be moved, but with no luck. Fergus is a known problem but not one that management seems to be willing to tackle. They seem to prefer to have me there to fix problems and make sure the job gets done.

          Thanks all, for the perspective. I tend to be a little self-critical. Some really good advice here. And fposte – “… this was a sinkhole eating part of your life and leaving the rest of it teetering and damaged.” God yes.

    4. Ama*

      I am so sorry for your loss.

      I can’t speak to personal experience, but a coworker of mine lost her spouse a few years ago and after some time away (my recollection is it was at least two months, more likely three, so you’re not at all “behind schedule” here) she ended up deciding that she couldn’t return. Granted, part of that decision was the fact that her position at our nonprofit involved working on patient and caretaker issues and she felt it was too close to her own situation, but also she, like you, was trying to figure out what she wanted out of life with her husband gone. And none of us here resented her taking all the time she needed even though she ultimately decided not to come back.

      I believe her plan when she left was to take at least a year to herself before deciding what she wanted to do for work next (she was fortunately in the financial position to be able to do that), but I lost touch with her so I don’t know whether that ended up being enough time or what direction she ended up moving in.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Oh, QCF, oh my.
      I hope you are doing something to help yourself with the grieving process, a grief group, books on grief, whatever suits. These things are not awful, they are surprisingly supportive.

      You have had an enormous loss. NO, you will not feel better in 6 weeks. I read that statistics show the probability of the surviving spouse passing away within 2 years of the first spouse is high. And this probability cuts through any demographic you can think of- income, location, age, race, religion, gender, etc. This is how powerful this loss is, no matter where we are in life losing our spouses really rocks our cages. I am not saying this to upset you, I am saying it in the context of “you are correct times a 1000”.

      I had the robotic thing going on for about six years. I used the fake it until I make it plan. I kept faking. It was six years and one day I got up and realized I had started having times where I felt like a human again and not a fake-it robot.

      I hope you chuckle slightly at least. when my husband passed another thing I found out is that my give-a-F died. Things that use to matter to me no longer mattered. My self-care was intact and I paid the bills all those basics where covered. What changed was I no longer had any patience for workplaces/cohorts/bosses who treated people like crap. People can’t have basic decency in place, then my ability to care was gone. Then this attitude carried over to people in my personal life. Yeah, I made a lot of changes.

      Life is too short and too precious to put up with BS, QCF. And when we lose our Closest and Dearest that lesson can be right in our faces. This is one of those situations where work and life are so interwoven that it is unavoidable to talk about them at the same time.

      Here is something you can use as a go-to. Before everything changed you had decided to leave this place. So that is your answer, you are emotional now yes (understandably), but in a different time you had decided to leave. So this is probably a good decision.

      Yes, you no longer have your sounding board so that is going to be a big piece of this story. You need a way to release the upset from the job. Can you take walks after work/dinner? Walking also helps with the grieving process, too. Maybe you can find a walking partner who will help you commit to walking regularly. The beautiful thing about walking is that over time you realize that you can make some pretty level headed decisions while walking. Something about it.

      Do you have quiet time/cry time OFTEN? Take random time outs almost daily to allow yourself to cry/contemplate/whatever.
      Grief can make us go inside ourselves and some of that is necessary and appropriate. It’s when we let ourselves fall into isolation that we can get some real problems. This is why planned quiet times are valuable, they counter balance the times where we HAVE to deal with people. And we use the times we have to deal with people to keep ourselves from becoming totally isolated. None of this will stay the same, it will change and the lows will not be as low.
      I went for life coaching after my husband died. It was a lot cheaper than a shrink and a life coach seems more prepared to talk about the future and planning a future.

      Keep letting us know how you are doing.

  122. Former Borders Refugee*

    An update to last week’s Overthinking It when it came to “hey, you’re super overqualified for this job you applied for, do you want to talk about other positions?” and then not hearing anything for a while:

    They emailed me back on Monday, and I had a very pleasant phone interview with the Director of Recruitment on Wednesday! They don’t have any positions open right now that they thought I’d be a good fit for, but I was told to keep an eye on the job postings, and to email the Director directly if I saw something, and she’d get in contact with me if she had anything.

    So fingers crossed, and thanks for talking me off the ledge that wasn’t really there.

  123. Anonymous for this*

    Still waiting to hear back from good-paying government job. Last week I was fingerprinted and had my picture taken for a government-issued employee I.D. badge. I was supposed to hear back from them this week and then go in to pick up my I.D. badge sometime this week and here it is, almost Friday afternoon. The job is supposed to start on Monday.

    I can’t imagine that there would be any problem with my fingerprints. I hate to bother the people in the HR department, but I’m going to break down and phone them after lunch.

    1. Ann Cognito*

      I would do that too. I think this is slightly different to the usual advice of not following up too quickly, since they told you you’re starting on Monday, and said you would need to pick-up your ID badge today.

      Good luck!

    2. Sue No-Name*

      They might not have it ready (December in the government in US is a notoriously sparsely-populated workplace). But they also might have an alternative option, like a visitor pass, that you will use until your badge is in-hand. If you have an onboarding date confirmed, which it sounds like you do, I think you should just show up. Calling probably wouldn’t hurt, but this situation sounds like everything is functioning as usual. :)

    3. Anonymous for this*

      Well, I called the HR department and things don’t look good.

      Of course, the person I dealt with in HR had left for Friday afternoon and the person I spoke with claimed that the other person in HR whose name I had wouldn’t know anything. She said to call the training manager and gave me that person’s number so I called and spoke with her. The training manager needed time to research the situation, and called me back after about an hour and a half. She said that I had not been offered a position after all, although she didn’t know why, and that the person who made that decision was, of course, out of the office. (WTF?) The training manager said that she’d leave a message for the person who made the decision and that that person would get back to me when she returned on Monday. It sounds like the job offer was rescinded, although no one really told me so. I wonder if I should have called sooner, like on Thursday or even Friday morning?

      I don’t have any arrest record so I’m really puzzled. I guess I’ll have to wait over the weekend to find out what is going on. If I get to talk to anyone I will ask them if I would be considered for any other positions if I applied for them in the future or if I should not bother to.

      At this point in time I feel really deflated and depressed. I guess I’ll use the weekend to revise my resume again and to search for more job openings. I’m also going to see about continuing my health insurance coverage under the ACA. I was so looking forward to having employer-provided healthcare, but I guess that isn’t going to be in the cards for the foreseeable future.

  124. Me--Blergh?*

    Okay news, but nothing I care to class as definite, so don’t freak out.

    Yesterday I got a call from this accounting company. I had applied to it a couple of times and got no further than a recruiter and one hiring manager who said the listing for the first job I applied to was wrong. The HR lady said she had an opening I might be interested in and invited me to apply. So I did.

    Today we had a phone interview. The job is called copy editor, though it’s classified as admin (grr!) and is basically the same thing I did at Exjob, without the numbers (I think). It supports their internal publications and consultants–i.e. their presentations, etc.– and does have some admin tasks (arrrrrghhh). But it pays the same per hour as Exjob did when I left, though no higher for this role. That’s okay, because I can build my account back up, unless insurance, etc. takes too big a bite from it, and then I’m out as soon as humanly possible. If I want to move into any kind of documentation work, I’m going to have to relocate, because I can’t get into the doc department at Exjob and that and this are the best I’m gonna find here. (Yes, I still want SoCal even though it’s perpetually on fire.)

    She wants to move me to the next phase, an in-person interview. I interviewed at this place a long time ago and it’s very stiff and not at all the kind of atmosphere I’m comfortable in. Plus, it will be CRAZY if I start in January, because tax season, and she did mention overtime, which I’m fine with, since I no longer have a cat I have to come home to feed, unless they want me to work weekends, which ain’t gonna happen (at least not Saturday). But money. I need money. I need a title on my resume that isn’t receptionist or assistant.

    I had to fill out an app (copy and paste resume, LOL) and do one of those dumb predictive index behavioral assessments (really? :P) but whatever. Now waiting to see if I get scheduled for the in-person and when. I would need to go clothes shopping if I got this job (ugggggh), because I have been wearing t-shirts and jeans for the last five years and only have one pair of work trousers.

    1. SophieChotek*

      So congrats…hope you get scheduled for that in-person interview. I know that you have been looking for a long time!

          1. SophieChotek*

            Of course it does. you’ve had an appointment with a VIP….
            (In reality, though, I suppose you probably should take the interview, and catch up with Luke and Leia later…)

      1. Me--Blergh?*

        Ha, thanks, it needs more than just me yelling at it, apparently! Although I actually did yell at it the other day, and two things I yelled happened. Hmm….

        *tries yelling for something else hahah*

    3. Ama*

      The good thing is post-Christmas sales can be a great time to stock up on work wear. Fingers crossed!

    5. anon24*

      Good luck! Every week I come on here and hope you’ve finally found a job. Sending you positive vibes!

      1. Me--Blergh?*

        I did too, but you know I don’t want to stay here long term. Still, moneeeeyyyyy. It’s cold now and I can’t afford the heating bill and I need money going IN my escape fund, not coming out.

    7. Elizabeth West*

      Thanks, everyone–I’m a bit bummed that I can’t find something here that is a step up from what I’ve already done. I’ve been in the admin pool so long I’m scared there is no hope of ever getting out of it, and I’m doomed to low-level poorly paid jobs for the rest of my life.

  125. Anon Accountant*

    One of my bosses “John” is terrible. Our firm provided litigation support to 1 of his friends for a lawsuit. The client wouldn’t give documents I asked for and kept insisting we “didn’t need them”. My final straw came when after a series of quarrels over this with my boss and no action taken from the managing partner, John argued with me because I’d provided paperwork to the defendants lawyer because we received a subpoena.

    John said I should’ve given the documents to our client and let him decide if he WANTED to give them to the defendants lawyer. And that I’m not working on the side of clients and he can’t have that.

    The other partners are declining to get involved because John is difficult. I’m running myself ragged job searching now.

  126. MargaritaMissy*

    My coworker (Pink) recently came out as agender. Ze prefers to be referred to as ze/zir and everyone in the office respects this. However, Pink has become rude and aggressive about this with people ze does not interact with on a daily basis and would assume ze is “she” thus referring to zir as “Ma’am.” Pink prefers the honorific “zir” (sounds like sir with a Z), and again, all co-workers respect this.

    For instance, have a rotating custodial crew that comes in about an hour before office staff leave. Most of this crew has limited English skills but usually smile and ask “I take garbage, ma’am?” Pink yelled at the worker and told him ze would get him fired for misgendering zir. The worker was clearly confused, but she continued her tirade against this man who was just trying to take out the trash.

    Yesterday, we went for a coffee run and Pink also flipped out on a Starbucks barista who said, “Ma’am, do you want room for cream?” Ze yelled at the barista that misgendering people was illegal and ze was going to tell the barista’s boss. The barista apologized profusely, tear-eyed, and gave us the order for free. Pink continued to yell even after we received our drinks about “gender neutral societies” and how baristas should know better.

    I’m friendly with Pink, and I don’t know if its my place to say something like, “hey, those people don’t know your preferred pronouns” or offering to buy her a button with them on it? Please don’t jump on me. I fully support someone’s gender identity, I just don’t know what to do here, if anything.

    1. TCO*

      I don’t think you need to get involved here–this is Pink’s problem that doesn’t directly relate to your work. If Pink continues to mistreat the custodial staff so abusively you could give your boss a heads-up about it, but other than that stay out of it and avoid future Starbucks runs.

      Hopefully Pink will learn with time, the longer they’re out, that people can’t be expected to use ze/zir or gender-neutral terms when they don’t know that’s what a person prefers. Sure, it might be nice if society learned to default to neutral terms, but that’s not the society we live in and bringing service workers to tears will not advance that goal. But really–none of that is your business. Just avoid spending time with Pink.

    2. fposte*

      I think Pink is being a jackass. Wonder if ze flips out on people in positions of power as easily? I definitely think you can say “Hey, these people don’t know your preferred pronouns, and it’s not cool to flip out on people with no ability to fight back.”

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        I don’t know about no ability to fight back–if Pink goes back to that coffee shop I wouldn’t be surprised if spit or something worse made its way into zir drink. ;) (But I agree with the overall gist of what you’re saying.)

        1. fposte*

          Same with the janitors, at least in my experience. But there seems to be a decent overlap between people concerned about proper gender pronouns and people concerned about treatment of the less powerful, so at least as a concept this might give Pink some perspective.

    3. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Oy. If you have a close relationship with Pink, it would be a kindness to say something. If not, I’d let it go.

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        (And by a kindness, I mean it would be a kindness to all the cashiers, baristas, custodians, etc. out there who have to interact with zir.)

    4. Murphy*

      Yeah, that’s really difficult…people ze deals with on a regular basis should be able to get with the program and even if they’re not familiar with the z-pronouns should be able to learn fairly quickly, which it looks like is happening! That’s great. But ze can’t assume that everyone is going to know what zir preferred pronouns are! Particularly baristas and other one-off encounters!

      I’m not sure there’s much you can do though…maybe in the context of the custodial crew, you could suggest that ze tone it down when ze corrects people, but I think it’s likely that you’d end up getting yelled at in the process.

    5. TGIF*

      This is honestly something that drives me crazy too. As someone who has done customer service for years, using sir and ma’am has been drilled into my head. It’s unfortunate that English doesn’t have a commonly used gender neutral pronoun for politeness but it’s true. Zir isn’t that commonly used; the several people I know who are agender go with they/them.

      So I think it’s really unfair of your coworker to lash out at people zir going to interact with for less than a minute. The coffee barista and janitor really don’t give a crap what your gender is; they’re just being polite. That anger should be used for people ze knows and are still using wrong pronouns. Deliberate use of wrong pronouns because someone doesn’t respect the choices of another is terrible and should be shouted down.

      But I have never understood people who immediately get in your face about gender. New people I’m meeting or friends who have come out that I misgender, they all quietly and politely ask ‘Please refer to me as BLANK’ and I do it. There’s not need for yelling or anger, it’s an honest mistake. People who get furious about innocent and honest mistakes need to calm down.

    6. Lumen*

      So strange that someone who wants their identity respected would go on a rant about gender-neutral societies… because not everyone is agender. I would not be any more comfortable in a society that refuses to acknowledge non ‘neutral’ genders than Pink is in a society that is still clinging fiercely to a gender binary.

      Anyway, that’s beside the point. Pink is going through a lot, and some degree of intensity is really understandable after coming out, whether you get a lot of support or not. However, Pink is also being a huge jerk. Pink is bordering on being xenophobic to the custodians regarding their linguistic capabilities, which is just as offensive (I think) as misgendering someone… maybe moreso, because in Pink’s case, ze is fully aware of the language barrier, while the custodians aren’t as cognizant that they are misgendering someone.

      I don’t think that dancing around this or making gentle nudges in the right direction are going to help. Baristas on the verge of tears should be enough of a ‘gentle nudge’, but clearly that’s not getting through to Pink. Be direct, keep it brief, and don’t get lost in the weeds of a discussion about whether or not our entire planet should use neutral pronouns. If Pink is a jerk, don’t get backed into a corner where you feel like you either have to support this behavior in order to support Pink’s coming-out OR you are a gender fascist bigot. You can fully support Pink’s coming out without ignoring that ze is being a jerk.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        People who treat front line workers like crap will not be able to get their own points across, no matter how much merit the point has. They have discredited themselves. Pink is demanding basic respect and, yet, unable to give it.

    7. Bobstinacy*

      Any time someone joins a new group/movement they tend to go through a phase where they’re kind of unbearable (think new femininists, recently converted religious people, yoga people, etc).

      Honestly Pink is being rude, and there’s no onus on you to control that. Once ze has become more comfortable in their labels they might calm down but until then I’d walk away whenever ze gets their rant on.

      1. zora*

        Well, not “everyone”, that’s a bit of a broad brush. But, yes, a lot of people do and I agree Pink might calm down naturally after a while.

    8. Helpful*

      Where is misgendering people illegal? It is wrong and inappropriate to flip out on people like this. It’s definitely not helping the cause. Sounds like Pink needs some therapy for coping skills for dealing with this.

    9. Helpful*

      Where is misgendering people illegal? It is wrong and inappropriate to flip out on people like this. It’s definitely not helping the cause. Sounds like Pink needs some therapy for coping skills for dealing with this. Wow.

    10. Snark*

      If you’re close enough to be friendly with zir, I agree that it’d be a kindness to tell zir, because this is bonkers behavior. As someone whose sibling is genderqueer, I understand that there’s a lot of frustration that can build up with people misgendering you or assuming what gender you are. It’s reasonable to expect family, friends, and acquaintances to correctly refer to you. But If ze has a generally female body and presentation, ze needs to realize that some random barista is not going to know ze is agender – or whether ze is agender, genderfluid, gender nonconforming, trans, or cis but androgynous – and it’s not fair to flip the hell out on people who have absolutely no way of knowing. And it’s not illegal, either.

    11. Nanc*

      I’m old and cranky. If I’m with someone and they flip on a service person I call them on their shit. I would suggest if you’re ever around Pink and she does this again you say something like “Pink, the barista has know way of knowing your preferences. Stop yelling at the barista and throwing out incorrect facts–it is not illegal to refer to someone by the wrong pronoun, especially if they’ve never met you.”

      Second, insist on paying for the drinks–or at least yours and leave a tip.

      Contrary to Pink’s probable belief, the baristas at that coffee shop did not have a big meeting that morning where the sole item on the agenda was to figure out what action would piss Pink off the most.

      1. Nanc*

        And I just realized I ought to have referred to Pink as zir and ze. That’s on me and if I should happen to meet her, I will do my best to be consistent as to her choices.

        1. Lumen*

          Not to pile on (more on that in a sec), but… you referred to Pink as ‘her’ again. :)

          However, I was really glad to see that you caught yourself within 1 minute of posting. You’re trying. Many people don’t try, or actively and consciously misgender out of spite. Which is not you! You’re recognizing a challenge and endeavoring to do better, and I think that’s worthy of acknowledging.

          Adjusting to using unfamiliar pronouns is easy for some, difficult for others. At one point I had no trouble switching from ‘she’ to ‘he’ or vice versa if someone came out as trans, but using the plural ‘they’ was weirdly difficult for me to remember to do. I’m good on that now, but I double and triple checked my post above to make sure I used the accurate (I try to avoid saying ‘preferred’ or ‘chosen’ pronouns) pronouns to talk about Pink, because ‘ze’ and ‘zir’ is a little more unfamiliar. Maybe one day that will come as naturally as ‘they’ or a binary switch.

          Just wanted to give you a nod, as someone who also is still learning and messing up and trying to do better.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            “They” is hard for me not because I have any issues with gender, but because English grammar rules, ergh. It was drilled into me that “they” is plural and I always want to fix it. I’m getting more comfortable with it but it does still feel awkward. Stupid English.

            1. Jay*

              English grammar is so flexible and changes a ton over time, though —remember that “you” used to be plural-only while “thou” was the singular equivalent, much like vous/tu in French. (And just like vous, the plural nature of it also meant it was the more formal and polite option, so it gradually shifted to being our singular version and ‘thou’ has been more or less phased out.) I haven’t gotten hung up on grammar rules ever since I took a class on the history of the English language and realized how much they change all the time.

    12. CatCat*

      You can support Pink’s gender identity while not supporting Pink being an asshole.

      “Hey, that wasn’t very nice. Not everyone knows your preferred pronouns or knows about agender identity. You will be much more effective if you are polite and treat people with kindness when you educate them about yourself.”

      And if Pink continues to be an asshole about this, I’d probably stop being a friendly coffee buddy, and just be a civil coworker without any out of the office interaction.

  127. Gina Linetti*

    The job search continues, though it’s reached levels of “Why am I doing this to myself?”

    I had one interview scheduled for this week, for a staff accountant job at a local accountancy firm. I was excited about this one – I had all the requisite experience and qualifications, and I really liked what I gleaned about this firm from their website. After a very long spate of fruitless interviews, I was starting to think I actually had a shot.

    Then, yesterday morning, I received this email (copied verbatim):

    “Hi [my name],

    I greatly appreciate your interest in the position we had posted. Unfortunately, the perfect candidate came in the other day and excepted the position. Therefore, we will need to cancel the interview for tomorrow at 3:30.

    Once again my sincere apologies for the cancelation and I wish you the best with your endeavors.”

    It was a dick move, but I couldn’t resist (what were they going to do – refuse to interview me?) – I emailed her back pointing out her errors (“accepted,” not “excepted”, oh, and you misspelled “cancellation”) and concluded with, “Maybe I should be applying for YOUR job.”

    She didn’t respond.

    Maybe I should feel bad about this, but I really don’t.

    2. fposte*

      It’s really hard when you’ve been searching for a long time, and I certainly get the temptation. But if you write out the response without sending it, you get the moral superiority without the cold reality that they’re now delighted that they didn’t hire you. So I’d stick to stuff that didn’t make them feel smug.

      2. Lumen*

        This. All you did is make them glad they didn’t even interview you, where before that, they may have kept your resume on file for future positions.

        I do hope that you are able to find something soon. I know it’s hard, and frustrating, and I’ve been there. But lashing out at people who (kindly) did not waste your time with an interview for a position they’d filled is not going to help you in the long run.

        1. Gina Linetti*

          You’re probably right, but for my own morale, I really needed to do this. You have no idea all the crap and disrespect I’ve endured on this nearly two-year-long job search. And I’m no closer to finding work than I was two years ago.

          Plus, how do they know I’m not “the perfect candidate”? They’ll never know, because they elected not to interview me. That was a dick move on their part right there. They already had the interview scheduled – why not go through with it?

          1. Snark*

            Because if they’ve already made a decision, a perfunctory, pointless interview is just going to be a waste of time for all involved, and you’d have gotten this annoying badly written email rejecting you anyway.

            1. Aurion*

              And I thought American English tended to not double the consonant–i.e. signaling, leveling, etc. Cancelation is an accepted spelling per Dictionary. com. So Gina might not have made the point she wanted to make, anyway.

          2. fposte*

            I know it’s really frustrating from the applicant point of view. But they don’t need two perfect candidates–if they already had the one, that’s all they need. It seems like people’s opinions get split on whether they’d prefer a pro forma interview when somebody’s already been offered the job or prefer to have it canceled so they don’t have to spend money and time and PTO to go into an interview where they have no chance, so I don’t think there’s an obvious right answer for them there.

            And I’m sorry it’s been such a horrible job search. Even the best of those will try your soul.

            1. Anon Accountant*

              Right. And I think it’s better than they interviewedher when they had their ideal candidate already. So it’d have been a waste of her time and getting her hopes up falsely.

              Sorry.

          3. Em*

            The other person may have had more experience, or some kind of extra qualification. Even if you would have been a good hire, it may have been that it was so obvious that this other person was above and beyond, they just didn’t want to continue the interview process and waste your (and their) time.

            I guess my main thought with their email/your response would be even if they hadn’t selected you for this position, if you hadn’t have emailed them, you could have been in the running for a future position, since clearly you were qualified enough that they originally wanted to interview you. But an email with that tone will most likely prevent that in the future.

            It sounds like you’ve had a frustrating experience. I hope it gets better.

            1. Snark*

              And I don’t necessarily want to make a bad incident worse for Gina Linetti, but….the perfect candidate doesn’t do what she did when they’re overlooked. That would make the hiring manager feel like they’d dodged a bullet, not that they’d missed an opportunity.

          4. AvonLady Barksdale*

            I sympathize with your frustration (oh, how I sympathize!), but this woman is not responsible for two years of fruitless searching. You haven’t even met her. She didn’t want to waste your time, and she sent you a polite email to that end. Your response was to go off on her, and as you know, you were rather rude.

            Here’s the thing: while you are job-hunting, you are always marketing yourself. And it is EXHAUSTING. But it has to be done. It’s an investment. You never know who can connect you with someone or who will call you back later. I got a career-launching job because I interviewed, didn’t get the job, and the interviewer recommended me to someone else. I have passed along resumes for people I didn’t hire because they– or their resumes– impressed me enough. Giving in to your temptation to put this woman in her place did nothing but damage. The damage may not have been extensive, and it may be nothing more than, “Wow, what a jerk, glad I didn’t hire her,” but it was unnecessary. Next time, write a long blog post or letter and keep it to yourself.

          5. Lumen*

            I am really sorry you’re struggling, Gina. I can tell how angry and frustrated you are, and it hurts. This sucks. It really does. I think almost everyone disagreeing with you knows that, and feels for you. I see so many messages expressing hope that it gets better and you find something.

            Their job was to find a candidate they wanted to hire. That’s what they did. It wasn’t their job to give every applicant a shot. It wasn’t their job to be fair to you. And if they thought “you know, Timmy was amazing, but we really liked Gina’s resume – let’s bring them in just to be sure” then they would have gone through with the interview. It’s hard to realize that, and you do not have to agree with their decision by any means, but that’s not disrespect; it’s just a decision you wish had gone differently.

            I do want you to protect your own morale, and take care of yourself, and keep your emotional head above water. That’s your biggest, most primary job and it’s vital for your health. But what you’re saying is that your morale relied on lashing out at someone who did not really do anything wrong. And I hope you will question that, because especially in the midst of a struggle this hard, it’s important to stay in your integrity.

            Anyway, I don’t want to inadvertently start a pile-on, so I’m going to pull back. I really do hope you find something soon. I’m sure you’re very qualified and doing your best, and that this was just a temporary Mad-As-Hell-Not-Gonna-Take-It-Anymore moment. I’ll be thinking about you and your search and hoping the best for you.

          6. Student*

            You need to find better ways to cope with your emotions.

            It’s understandable that you feel the way you feel. It’s utterly, beyond-the-pale unacceptable to deal with that frustration the way you did.

            You are acting like a toddler, lashing out like that. Learn some adult coping strategies. “For your own morale?” Bull skit! You failed to cope with disappointment like a reasonable, normal person. Now you’re trying to cloak your own self-hate about your stupid, self-destructive, selfish, cruel behavior in bravado.

            The rest of us get just as angry as you’ve gotten, just as disappointed. We’ve all been through similar major disappointments, some of us much worse than what you’re going through. I won’t let this self-pitying “I’m the only one with real feelings!” stuff lie there unchallenged. The vast majority of us manage to find a more appropriate way to deal with it.

            No idea if this is what’s holding back your job opportunities, but it’ll certainly result in shortened periods of actual employment once you get a job in any place you’d actually want to work. You have options on how to deal with this, as detailed by other commenters; go learn about them and start using them.

    3. Snark*

      “It was a dick move, but I couldn’t resist (what were they going to do – refuse to interview me?) – I emailed her back pointing out her errors (“accepted,” not “excepted”, oh, and you misspelled “cancellation”) and concluded with, “Maybe I should be applying for YOUR job.”

      My guess is she did respond, because names don’t add just automatically themselves to the “never ever hire for any reason” file, just not directly to you. I hope for your sake that firm doesn’t decide to share their experience with other firms in the area.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        That last sentence was my first thought after reading this. You have no idea who this woman is connected to, and industries can be very small. You probably just ensured an even longer job search for yourself, Gina, if you’re looking to stay in this particular field. Yikes all the way around.

    4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Yikes. That was mean.

      I realize that job searches are frustrating, but this woman isn’t the cause of that. Now she’s having a crappy day because an applicant chose to insult her.

      1. nep*

        Not necessarily. Many people I know would be above allowing their day to be made crappy by such an email.

    5. AnonAndOn*

      I hear you that job searching is soul-sucking and hard (going through a hard one myself), but replying back like that was not the wisest idea and not necessary. There are better ways to channel your anger: write it down (in a journal), go for a walk, yell in the privacy of your own home, use a pillow as a punching bag, et cetera, and after that anger has subsided use it to motivate you to keep looking. This one may not have wanted to hire you, but someone else will.

    6. Elizabeth West*

      I know how you feel–job hunting sucks, getting rejected sucks, and the endless waiting sucks. But I’m afraid you’ve burned the bridge with this company. I wouldn’t apply there again, ever.

      When I want to send something snarky but can’t, I write it in Notepad. At one job, when I was super frustrated, I would open a Notepad text file and rapidly type everything I was thinking into it, save it (to my flash drive, not my hard drive!) and close it. If anyone walked by, they couldn’t seem my screen and it looked like I was busy, even though I was really writing something like OMG are you f***ing kidding me, Babyhead* needs to just shut the f*ck up and stop repeating everything three times every time he says something or I’m going to throw a brick at his fat round head.

      It works if you do it at home too. You can get all those feelings out, and there is NO CHANCE you’ll accidentally or impulsively send it.

      *My boss–he actually did look like a giant petulant baby and Marketing Guy and I called him this to each other behind his back.

    7. Gina Linetti*

      I suppose I should have expected you all to scold me – I’ve seen the way you savage people on here that you don’t like. Oh, well, it is the internet, after all. Sooner or later, every comments thread turns into a pile-on.

      But I don’t think any of you understand what I’m going through here. A two-year job search is one long f**king slog, and I can see no end in sight. My self-esteem is in tatters. My anxiety level is through the f**king roof. Every month it’s a battle to scrape together enough money for rent and other essentials.

      At this point I am actively contemplating suicide. If, due to my age and physical problems, I’m no longer deemed worthy of being allowed to earn my own living, then what’s the point of living at all?

      On one point I do agree with you – the woman I insulted didn’t deserve it. But I don’t deserve what I’ve been going through, either. And frankly, if getting a mean email is the worst thing that’s happened to her in the last two years, I think she’ll survive. She has a job, after all.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        “I’ve seen the way you savage people on here that you don’t like.”

        I feel that’s a harsh judgment. While I don’t know you enough to “like” you, I have no reason to dislike you.

        And I repeat, I’ve been a combination of unemployed and underemployed for over a year. I no longer have a way to pay my rent and bills and I may be out on the street. I have felt suicidal about it in the past and called the National Suicide Prevention Hotline. I have dealt with jerk employers, constant rejections, and other nonsense. Yes, I get angry, yes, I feel like crying sometimes. But I cannot and will not take my anger about it out on individual employers. There are better ways of channeling that energy.

        I’d suggest you call the National Suicide Prevention Hotline like I did. While the person I spoke with didn’t say anything monumental to me, just speaking with me kept me from taking any drastic and permanent actions.

        1. Gina Linetti*

          At this point I’m okay with taking drastic and permanent action. Judging from the news, I don’t think most of us are going to be around much longer anyway.

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            Hi Gina! If you’re in the U.S., this is the number for the National Suicide Prevention Hotline: 1-800-273-8255. Please call it, even if you don’t think it will help. I remember from previous comments that you have a cat, as well as friends, and they need you! Check in with us tomorrow or next week?

            1. AnonAndOn*

              I agree with Alison. Please call that number! Think about that precious cat and those friends Alison mentioned. I’m sure they all love and care about you.

                2. AnonAndOn*

                  And I just realized that the more you’re posting on here and responding to my comments, the less time you’re thinking about suicide. You know what? Feel free to be angry with me. That’s okay. I’d rather you keep posting here than consider suicide. Keep posting!

          2. Elizabeth West*

            I am happy to say I think that’s wrong–because I, personally, am fighting to see that it is not. You don’t have to. All you need to do is take care of yourself. I will do the fighty warrior part. So don’t let that worry you.

            *HUGS*

      2. Elizabeth West*

        No, you don’t. You don’t deserve it at all. Neither do I. Neither do any of the other people here who are looking and not finding anything. And sorry if it seems we’re piling on, but did you expect us to clap and say “You told her!”? Somehow, I don’t think you did. I think you know that wasn’t a great thing to do. But it’s okay–we all do things we regret. BOY could I tell you stories. :P

        If you’re not talking to someone right now, I hope you will consider doing so. Please, call the number. And come back and tell us how you’re doing. We DO care. We want you to find a good job, but more than that, we want you to be okay.

        *HUG*

      3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        Oh I think some of us know exactly what you’re going through because we are going through it ourselves. None of us deserve the indignity and frustration of being turned down for job after job, for years on end, feeling like we have wasted our lives pursuing foolish dreams and now we are unemployable, useless, and wastes of space. You aren’t the only one who has contemplated suicide or felt unrelenting despair at years of being unsuccessful in the job market, especially when you meet people or hear stories of people who are sheer unadulterated idiots who somehow manage to be gainfully employed while we are not. We have talents and skills that are going unused, and it’s not fair and it hurts and it’s horrible. I get it.

        It was perhaps not the wisest thing to do but hopefully you have gotten it out of your system for now.

    8. BG39*

      Wow. Everyone on this site is so wise and mature. I personally think this is awesome! Go you! Sometimes it just feels good to be petty! Now that you’ve released your frustration, hopefully you can move on with a clear head

      Also… listen to the wise people above me and take their advice because it’s good. I just wanted to commiserate and say that I’ve been in your shoes and have sent out a snarky email once and it felt damn good ( I knew I was burning a bridge). Just don’t make it a habit (which it sounds like you won’t).

      1. BG39*

        Oh wow. I only read the first few responses before I posted this comment and hasn’t read the entire thread.

  128. Gross!*

    I am on a front desk rotation that once a week, I sit at the front desk, managing the door and the phones, while the receptionist is at lunch. Our receptionist left some time ago so we’ve had the same regular temp as a receptionist for nearly two months.

    The thing is, this temp leaves the desk a mess. I’m not a germaphobe but there are crumbs everywhere. On the desk, in the keyboard, even stuck to the computer screen. I have to wipe down and clean everything up for me to sit at the front desk for just an hour because I find it so gross. I’m guessing it’s her snacks since she always leaves for lunch but I truly don’t understand how she can get crumbs into the very crevice of her keyboard.

    I want to say something to the office manager who is in charge of the temp but, as far as I know, I’m the only one who is bothered by this. No one else on the rotation has mentioned it. And she is a temp; I know she won’t be around forever so I don’t really want to get her in trouble for something so small. But my skin crawls when I sit and her desk and use her equipment, and I thoroughly wash my hands when my shift is over. Should I mention something, or should I leave it alone?

    1. KR*

      I think I’d just leave it alone. Of the office manager has an issue with how dirty her desk is she will let her know – otherwise I’d just continue doing what you’re doing. I guess that changes if maybe her desk is really visible you could make the point that for visitors to see that level of dirtiness might really turn them off and then you could segway into it being an issue of consideration for those who cover her breaks. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.

    2. Amber Rose*

      “I know she won’t be around forever so I don’t really want to get her in trouble for something so small.”

      This is probably why nobody else has mentioned it. I’d say something. It’s not getting her in trouble to ask her to not leave crumbs all over a shared desk.

      1. Lisa B*

        Especially the FRONT DESK. Where, presumably clients or other people walk by. Don’t make a big deal about it, but a “hey, can you keep a plate or a napkin out for your snacks? The desk is looking a little grungy and it’s in a pretty visible space. Thanks.”

    3. AnotherAlison*

      Some people really don’t see messes. I would mention it. I find people who don’t notice actually don’t want to be messy, and will clean up if you tell them, but you might have to tell them every day.

  129. Sarasaurus*

    Any tips for becoming more assertive with people senior to you? I am mid-level and manage projects, but not people. This often involves setting deadlines and wrangling people much further up the food chain to get their work in on time.
    I know I’m good at my job and get positive feedback from my boss, but I struggle with confidence and the idea that I “own” the project. Whenever I need to chase down a senior manager or executive to remind them of their deadline, I try to psych myself up and give myself a little pep talk first, but I feel like I always get nervous in the moment and end up coming across as meek, and like I’m asking rather than telling. I think part of the problem is that I am young (mid-20’s) and look younger (20 on a good day), so I tend to be seen as a “helper” rather than a leader.

    1. Chaordic One*

      This is hard and you are in a difficult situation. When I was in your situation, I always tried to be exceedingly polite, and I tried to frame my requests as being “a reminder.” And still they acted like I was Attila the Hun and I was reported to my supervisor for being rude and pushy. After I left the position I took comfort in knowing that my second replacement didn’t bother doing all the follow-up I did and people ended up not getting paid, or reimbursed for expenses, on time. (She said that she sent out an email telling them what they needed to do and the deadline and she wasn’t going to babysit them.) I’m sorry if this isn’t very helpful.

      Be polite and keep on nagging them. It will get easier the more you do it. There’s also an off chance that you might actually be able to train some of these people to get their paperwork turned in on time.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      I like to channel SpongeBob in these situations, the episode “Squid’s Day Off,” where Squidward tried to skip out on work when Mr. Krabs left him in charge, and he told SpongeBob he had to run errands but really sneaked home. I’m pleasant, but yes, I do follow up like, “Have you finished those errands? Have you finished those errands?”

      It’s all in Squiddy’s head but still, hahah–I want to be in their head so they fricking finish. If they get mad, I can say neutrally, “Sorry, but Mr. Krabs said we can’t do X until you finish those errands.”

      http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/Squid%27s_Day_Off

  130. Katie the Fed*

    I seriously cannot get my head in the game at work right now. Baby is due in 3 weeks and I go on leave in two, and I’m just unfocused and useless right now. I don’t even have a question – that’s how unfocused I am.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Wow, three weeks?! Time seems to have flown. (Probably not as much for you LOL).

      When I’m feeling unfocused, I try to do little things that don’t require a lot of brain power. Tidy up your inbox and desk. Make sure things are organized for whoever is covering while you’re out. That sort of thing. Especially since baby may have other ideas and you might have to leave sooner than two weeks.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      I was the same way. Don’t stress over it. Take a quick nap. A walk around the building. I’m sure you’ve done all you can to prepare.

    3. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      This is super, super normal. I was the same way. Set yourself bite-sized goals. “I’m going to file this stack of papers.” “I’m going to copyedit this one document.”

      And best wishes! You’re about to have such a very different time for a while, but (if you choose to) you’ll get back to normal professionally eventually. In the meantime, enjoy that sweet little baby!

    4. Friday*

      SAMES. I’m hanging in there and working at a sloooow pace. Have some days of meetings where I’m mostly in as a value-add and not running the meetings, thank god. But mostly I stare at my outlook calendar and wish I could advance time a few weeks to get to the baby part.

  131. Curious Cat*

    I have a very close friend who is *constantly* comparing our jobs. I have a job that I truly enjoy, with people I like, and has some great benefits. I see myself being there for a very long time. She has a job that’s the exact opposite (boring work, doesn’t like coworkers, is already looking for a new job after less than a year of being there). I’m sorry for her job situation, but she complains about it constantly and when she’s done complaining, she will look to me as if expecting me to pitch in with my own work-related complaints. I have none. It creates an awkward situation.

    She’s started to become very snarky whenever our jobs come up. Anything good I say about my job comes across as bragging, even though I don’t use that tone of voice, just because she’s so negative. I do not bring up work, it is only ever her that brings it up. I’m looking for some ways to tactfully avoid talking about work, or how to get out of those conversations? It’s hurting our friendship, and I don’t want it to.

    1. fposte*

      Options: talk to her in some neutral time about this. “Jane, I know you’re not happy with your job while I am; I think that’s making it really hard for us to talk about work stuff, and I’d like a moratorium for a while to see if we can find happier subjects.”

      Or: Let it be awkward. You don’t feel like complaining, and you don’t have to. You don’t have to talk about your job at all–turn the topic to something non-job instead.

      Or: breezily say “I just don’t like to think about work so much when I’m away from it. How about those Dodgers?”

      There are many other Ors, too.

      1. Curious Cat*

        Thank you for the suggested script in the first option! I definitely am comfortable enough with her that I could say it straight-up like that, and I like the wording you’ve suggested. I’d been scratching my head about this forever trying to find the right thing to say, so thank you!

    2. Is it Friday Yet?*

      I know it sucks, but as her friend, I would just be patient and listen to her while she’s dealing with a sucky job. It can be cathartic just to vent to a friend. Otherwise, I’d just try to redirect the conversation to something else like what shows she’s watching, holiday shopping, etc.

  132. Curious*

    I’ve been asked by my company to create an employee newsletter. I’m wondering if you all have suggestions on good features/content that you’ve seen in newsletters. For context, the company is small – 65-ish employees – but growing quickly. We do contract work so therefore have small groups of people at various locations across the country. Hence it is tough to have traditional staff meetings where people would learn about what is going on. Other than basic company news, has anyone found other content especially helpful/interesting?

    1. Sue No-Name*

      Blurbs on employee’s hobbies or accomplishments outside of work can be really cool! My org recently published an edition of their newsletter containing a detailed story about my coworker’s pottery and sculpture skills, with photos of her working with the wheel and some quotes from her about how she got interested in it and where she began to learn the basics. It was a really great way to learn about a coworker’s interests and abilities outside the office.

    2. Havarti*

      In addition to company news (contracts won, presentations given, papers published, awards received), our newsletter always has a special interview/information section on one of the departments: what they do, what resources they provide, how they fit within the company, when/why you should contact them, etc. There’s always a tech section with the latest news like rolling out new login procedures or reminders to beware phishing scams. Schedules of brown bags, seminars, etc. Reminders not to run people over in the parking lot when the clocks change or being careful in the heat or snow with contact information if you get hurt on company property. Tips for stretching and taking breaks and other healthy lifestyle stuff. Thought-provoking bits like setting realistic goals. A gallery of photos employees have taken of nature or places visited.

      2. Elizabeth the Ginger*

        One caveat with “healthy lifestyle stuff” – it’s a good idea overall, but beware of going to a fat-shaming or food police kind of place.

        1. Lisa B*

          I always liked the ones that talked about stretches to do at your desk to avoid muscle strain, ergonomics tips, etc. Those are nearly across-the-board neutral…. hard to get offended at something like that.

          1. Havarti*

            It tends to be stuff like that and staying hydrated in the heat. Maybe getting enough sleep? I dunno. Anyway, yeah, stay away from food though.

    3. KatieKate*

      We have trouble in my company not knowing what certain departments do. Maybe highlight one in every letter and talk about the cool things they are working on?

    4. Not So NewReader*

      You could do random articles on the history of the company. Articles that explain things can draw a lot of attention. Explanations about additions to the building structure or explanations about major changes in processes might spark conversation about new topics.
      In a similar vein you could have a section where people summit a topic they would like to hear more on.

  133. Mr. Darcy's Wench*

    I know this has been addressed before in these forums, but best tips for avoiding burn-out? I’m on a ten-minute lunch break right now and have been fighting back tears all morning–grades are due in two weeks, administration just announced that our building is being renovated two months ahead of schedule so we have to move by 12/23, and I’m in charge of our faculty/staff party. Losing my mind. Deep breathing normally works but not this time, and I know I’m not the only one completely overwhelmed right now.
    And in just a few minutes I have to give another unit test, write two rec letters, and meet with an angry parent before setting up for a fundraiser, also for the school.
    Please, AMA commentariat, tell me that this is just the time of year and this too shall pass.
    But any pragmatic stress-relieving tips that do not involve alcohol or ripping off my clothes and running down the hallway screaming would be helpful.

    1. Havarti*

      This too shall pass. However it does sound like you have a lot on your plate. Get through today. Go home and have a good cry. Punch a pillow if needed. Then figure out what’s top priority or happening first. Party? What plans need to be made? Can parts of it be delegated, etc.? At some point, you may need to just let the less important things fall through the cracks because there’s only so much you can realistically do. Make sure you sleep and stay hydrated.

      1. Mr. Darcy's Wench*

        Thank you! I think it’s time to delegate some of this. Have a great weekend, everyone!

        My current plan: face mask, tea, GoT rerun. Then back to grading.

    2. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      Another teacher here. This too shall pass. (Or, if you notice in May that it’s continued to feel this crazy continually since the winter, it might be time to dust off your resume. But I’d assume it will pass.)

      I have been feeling likewise the pressures of the season and made time for a massage Wednesday night. It helped so much. Can you schedule yourself something nice – a massage, tickets to a play, etc.? If you can’t squeeze it in now, book it now for early January and use the thought of it as a carrot to get you through these weeks.

      Good luck.

  134. Hi.Hi.Hi.*

    I have a good boss/sad story/work question rolled into one:

    In September, I found out I was pregnant with my first child. A couple weeks later, I had to go get my blood drawn every other day to check HcG levels for fear of miscarriage…a week after that was told to be on the lookout for bleeding because the levels weren’t going up, spent the next day in the hospital where I was told I had miscarried, and then was called back two days later to say that my levels had gone back up, and then had to go back to the hospital b/c of the risk of an ectopic pregnancy. In the end, my pregnancy was determined to be ectopic, and I had two doses of methotrexate only to still end up with internal bleeding and emergency surgery. In the end, I missed just under a month of work (half a week when told it was a miscarriage, a week for the first methotrexate, half a week for the second, and 6 days for the emergency surgery/recovery). Throughout all of this, my boss has been really great-did not require any paperwork from the hospital after the initial 3 days (which he could have), told me to work from home whenever necessary, and has made sure there was no fallout from anything missed during that time (ex. I run our internship program, and missed three paid for job fairs during that time, which is a big deal in a small agency, and was just told not to worry about). I was also told to take as much time off as I need, and if necessary he would submit the paperwork for a 6-month advance in sick time (which is a ton of time…even after all of my time off, I still have almost 3 months of sick time left, and yes we do bank time). He can be really difficult about some stuff, but is generally always understanding about personal/family illnesses, but is not really thanked for it.
    So, my question is, is a handwritten thank you appropriate? And if yes, what should I say? This is my first office job out of college, and I’ve been here for five years, but it’s only a five person office so there are only so many opportunities to learn more traditional office norms.

    1. plot device*

      I think there are few situations when a handwritten thank you note would be inappropriate. You’re in the clear to give him one.

      I’m so sorry for your loss and subsequent health concerns. I hope you’re healing well.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      It sounds like you’ve been through a really rough time. I am glad that your boss was supportive and kind.

      I’m torn on whether or not you should give a thank you note. Part of me feels like it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing to send a quick note that simply says “thank you for your kindness and support during my recent health difficulties”. But another part of me feels like boss could be offended if you thank him for being a decent person.

      Does your boss celebrate any upcoming holidays? Perhaps a holiday card with a thank you would be a better option than a straight up thank you note.

    3. Snark*

      A handwritten thank you is most appropriate, so don’t worry about that. My general approach with this is to be as brief but as heartfelt as possible.

      “Dear Bossman-

      I just wanted to express my appreciation for your help getting through a very rough few months. It was enormously difficult, but your compassion and support made it so much more bearable. Thank you so much.

      – Hi.”

      1. SilverRadicand*

        Absolutely, I only have three of these from my last four years as a manager. Every one is on my board, even from years ago. A heartfelt thank you note is the best.

    4. Hi.Hi.Hi.*

      Thank you for the replies! No, he does not celebrate any upcoming holidays, or else I would probably go with that suggestion. I think I will do a short thank you, going off of Snark’s suggested script, and I’m glad to know that he will probably appreciate it!

  135. NacSacJack*

    Hello All,

    I want to thank you for your responses regarding my work situation of long elasped time days and my personal situation with the dogs. i especially liked the suggestions “Never approach your boss without at least a solution at hand” and “Your personal solution is just that…personal”. These were great suggestions and have helped me to reframe the situation in my mind.

  136. CR*

    There’s already a gazillion comments so I doubt anyone will see this, but I am a AMA success story! I just got a new, much needed job, that is a big step up from where I am now. I used Alison’s books and guidelines and read a ton of posts for help with my resume, cover letter, and interviews. I am happy to say I got the job and I am thrilled. Thank you Alison and all you readers!

    4. AnonAndOn*

      “There’s already a gazillion comments so I doubt anyone will see this…”

      I have, as have three others ahead of me. Congratulations! That is great news.

  137. plot device*

    Oh boy.

    My resume has one company I was with for seven years, and the next I was with for four years. When we moved across the country last year, I took a position that I loved, but the commute was not sustainable, and I left after six months. I have been in my current position for coming up on a year.

    Current job is fine. It’s not quite what I want to be doing. It’s in terracotta teapots but I prefer to work with steel alloys. But the people are great, the benefits are solid, and I don’t mind it.

    A recruiter contacted me last week about a position at another organization, looking for a steel alloy teapot maker. The position sounds absolutely great, and while I’m a little underqualified, I could be a contender.

    The problem is that I wasn’t planning to make a move this soon. I could justify leaving a job after six months by making the terrible commute/work-life balance argument. But to leave the next job after a year makes me concerned I’m going to come off as a flake.

    The job looks so good on paper–and steel alloy teapot positions are harder to come by–but I’m conflicted about interviewing for it. Interviewing doesn’t mean I’m going to get it, of course. But I would feel bad about leaving my current position after so short a time.

    1. SophieChotek*

      I don’t see why you shouldn’t at least interview. Like you said, you might not get the job. You could find the pay isn’t good or something else that isn’t obvious on paper. And even if you get the offer, you aren’t obligated to accept it either.

    3. Menacia*

      Yes, don’t let the “what ifs” of the situation prevent you from possibly finding your dream job in steel alloys! :)

    4. Half-Caf Latte*

      And, I’d think- “I was recruited away because of my knowledge/background in steel alloys” is a reasonable answer.

      But industry norms and the usual disclaimers apply

  138. SophieChotek*

    Have you had an employee that consistently resigns or threatens to resign but never actually leaves?

    One of my bosses (whom, you have probably gathered I don’t like very much, but that’s a different story) announced her resignation back in the end of September or so. She said she was going to stay until the end of October/first week in November. Well, throughout all of November I was expecting a final farewell email (or something – I work remotely from her), but never got anything. But at the beginning of this week, I got a long email of instruction for a big project — which is fine (that’s her right).

    So I messaged a former co-worker who resigned/was forced to resign because she would not relocate and was like “Hey, remember how you told me Cersei was resigning…she’s still here.” And my friend was like “Yeah, I heard from [other co-worker] that she first said she was leaving in October, then November, and now has said she will stay until March.” My friend went on to say , “Yeah, when Cersei disagrees with the CEO she’ll resign, but she never leaves.” Two different co-workers have now told me that Cersei will do this – she has “resigned” multiple times when she is upset, but never leaves.

    I sometimes wish they would actually hold her to a resignation, but I despite her (tantrums? snits?) she must produce enough valuable work the CEO must just shrug and not worry about it.

    Got a similar co-worker?

    1. Havarti*

      Yup, there’s always a few. Best to assume she’s never leaving so you can be pleasantly surprised the day she finally follows through on her threat.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes, that is my thought too. (at first I was excited, but now I’ve decided she’s never leaving.) Hopefully I’ll find a New Job, so that I can leave, even if she never does.

    2. Higher Education Database Dork*

      I used to. The Office Jerk in my former department was ALWAYS threatening to leave. He is a terrible person and not even that great of a worker, and has had enough issues that he could easily be terminated. But I swear this guy has some blackmail on some people because he is never even disciplined beyond “Hey, that’s not nice, don’t do it mmkay?” Anyway, he’s said countless times during his countless tantrums that he’s fed up with Old Dept and is leaving! for real! this time! He’s still there. He’s been at my institution for nearly 20 years and he’s been saying it since year 1.

    3. Jennifer*

      Look up Salmon P. Chase–he quit Lincoln’s Cabinet about four times before Lincoln finally got fed up enough to force him to actually leave.

  139. Michaela*

    Can we talk about what an appropriate office friendship might look like?

    My department is pretty small, and I’ve been getting friendly with a couple of co-workers — the ones near me in age, similar in interests, etc. But I want to have appropriate boundaries in mind. Neither of the people I’m most interested in getting to know better are on my team, so we don’t work directly together. I host a monthly-ish board game afternoon at my place for friends and I’d like to invite one or both of them to come; what’s your opinion on how appropriate this would be? It’s normal here for subsets of people to go out for lunch during the workweek or get drinks after work once in a while, but I don’t think most of my coworkers spend time together offhours.

    Possibly-relevant context: large private university, I work in the admin side, I’ve been here a couple of years.

    1. plot device*

      I don’t think there’d be anything untoward about the invitation. By all means, invite them. If they can’t make it, they can’t make it.

    2. La Revancha*

      I actually very much disagree with the “don’t become super good friends with coworkers thing.”As a working adult it’s likely the only place you will form lasting friendships outside of college. I haven’t made many good friends outside of work since I graduated 8 years ago. Sure, it can cause issues, but in the grand scheme of life what BS or problems happened during your career isn’t going to matter you’re older, retired, and thinking about your life. Make good friends, have fun, and make some good memories!

    3. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      Yeah, I think as long as you don’t report to them and they don’t report to you, there’s no problem with that.

    4. Artemesia*

      Work friendships are fine. Where else do you meet people when you work full time? As long as you are not their subordinate or boss, there is nothing amiss about pursuing out of work friendships, hobbies etc.

  140. Medical dramas*

    Two weeks into a new job my brother experienced sudden and major medical issues that put him in hospital. He went back to work immediately after surgery but obviously has been underperforming. He is due to have further medical treatment in a few weeks so there isn’t a quick band aid solution to his health (and work) issues.

    His new employer talked to him about performance issues and mentioned termination as a possibility. Will really appreciate some advice.

    1. fposte*

      Is this in the U.S.? How long has it been since the hospitalization?

      Unless it’s been going on for at least a year, he’s out of luck on federal FMLA; it’s worth checking to see if there are any state possibilities but this sounds pretty short term. It’s worth considering if ADA is relevant–are there accommodations that would be helpful? Is there a target date for when he expects to be back up the speed, and has he discussed this with a manager?

      But they don’t have to keep him in a job he can’t do. This may just be the job that they mutually agree to part on, and the gap in the resume can just be due to his health problems so wouldn’t need further explanation.

      1. Medical dramas*

        Not in the US. Legal stuff aside, I wonder what would be the best option to approach this with his managers?

        1. Artemesia*

          He is pretty vulnerable as it is a new job, but he should if he has not sit down with management and discuss his medical situation having gotten him off to a slow start and his commitment to getting up to speed. Solicit specific feedback about how to perform better under the circumstances. Does he need more training? To spend more time at work (if physically possible?) Is there anything he could do to catch up or is the issue on going weakness and lack of energy? What a bummer to have something like this at the start. The main thing he needs to do is make very clear that he recognizes the bad timing and is fully committed to getting up to speed.

          It may not be enough, but not every place of business is ruled by monsters.

  141. Brunch with Sylvia*

    This happened to a colleague in another department. He has been in the workforce for <5 years and this is his first holiday season in current division under current boss. Friend came to work this week to find a wrapped holiday gift on his desk. No card or note. The other desks also had similarly wrapped gifts. Friend opened gift and it was a nice gift from immediate supervisor who also happens to be the division chief. Friend thanked chief warmly for gift and was scolded by her for opening it before Christmas Day! Friend was really embarrassed and worried about the response and asked someone more senior in the department about the office norms on this and that person also agreed that it made friend appear "greedy" and "impatient." Before letting the issue drop, friend sent chief an email, again thanking her for the gift and apologizing if there was an offense in opening it earlier than chief intended and got another really bizarre scolding–comparing him to a child! He won't pursue the issue further but I am just amazed at the strangeness of boss's response.

    1. Temperance*

      Please tell your friend that this is super weird. I mean, if I saw a wrapped gift on my desk, I would open it. I personally hate the word “greedy”, and chiding someone for opening a gift that was a.) meant for them and b.) placed on their desk is so strange. I mean, why not HOLD ONTO IT UNTIL YOU WANT THEM TO OPEN IT.

    2. Havarti*

      How awful! I open gifts from co-workers immediately so I can thank them before we all disappear for the holidays. I would be mortified (and angry) to be scolded for doing that. Anyway, he should let the matter drop but keep a sharp eye on how his boss acts from now on. That’s not healthy behavior.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      If there was no note on the package, how was friend supposed to know not to open it?

    4. Snark*

      These people are crappy. It’s totally expected and normal to open work gifts before Christmas. I can’t think of a circumstance where I’d wait to open one.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        Also, it was St Nicolas day this week (6th December) . Whilst it is really aimed at children who get sweets for being good or a lump of coal or a stick to be beaten with (symbolic obviously) if they have been naughty, lots of companies also join in. We all got chocolate and gingerbread, so I would have though a gift this week was to celebrate St Nicolas.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        Me either–at work, or at the Christmas ice skating show, where we used to exchange gifts with friends and coaches. Everyone opened theirs right away. In fact, in any pre-holiday setting where it’s not family, we’ve always opened gifts right then and there.

    5. Artemesia*

      IN 45 years in the workplace I have often received small gifts from employers and sometimes from peers — we always open them when we get them. Does anyone take their work gift home to open around the tree? This is just very odd.

  142. Candi*

    On the subject of pranks.

    From Not Always Working, “Will take up this “urgent issue” with HR.”

    Summary: Submitter sends an email -apparently from his work address- to a couple friends. It mentions a Very Important Matter and refers them to the attached video, which is general goofiness. At this point it is a poor prank.

    Then the forwarding begins. At that point, it becomes a very bad prank. One person breaks a date to attend to the non-existent VIM, and others also drop personal matters to look into it.

    Seriously, what the heck did he think would happen? Emails. Get Forwarded. Especially when they seem funny or are otherwise considered interesting. So now many of his coworkers are cheesed off at him. Talk about breaking the rules of good pranking.

  143. Snow and sleet*

    As I expected, I haven’t had luck applying to jobs in New York while living in Florida. I’ve applied to around 40 jobs since last month and no luck.

    1. Havarti*

      I’m sorry. I’ve always been told end of the year is a bit rough for hiring. Are you relocating anyway at a certain point or moving only if hired? And your cover letter explains that?

    2. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      Good luck. If you haven’t heard “no” from all of them, it’s possible that you might still hear back with an interview request – the time between Thanksgiving and the December holidays is often a time when things like hiring get slowed down.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      It’s really, really hard to apply for jobs in New York when you don’t live there. Depending on your field, the applicant pools can be huge. Are you using a New York address? Do you have a New York network (i.e., anyone you know who works for a company you want to work for)? When I moved to NYC many moons ago, it took me 8 months to find something in my field and I absolutely had to be there. I took temp jobs and landed a seasonal retail job before that happened, and I networked the heck out of the city. As Havarti and Elizabeth said, this time of year is also a beast, especially in a city where so much is going on. Is there an option for you to relocate first?

  144. Ruth (UK)*

    I finally started my new job on Monday this week! It’s been really good, though I’m feeling a little overwhelmed at the moment.

    I also have been experiencing a little bit of ‘homesickness’ for my last job. Not loads as my new job is notably better in a number of ways – more interesting/varied, higher pay, more/better holidays (including the whole office closing [paid] from 22nd Dec – 2nd Jan) – and my boss has already taken the dates for my leave requests for 2018 and then approved everything I asked for. More training/etc opportunities (old job had no opportunity to move up / across / anywhere at all). Everyone so far seems very friendly etc.

    I suppose I just miss the familiarity of my old job, and knowing everyone, and how to do things etc. I was there for 3 and a half years, in an open plan office with 8 people, 5 of whom were either there slightly before me, or only a month or so after (the company had only existed for a few months at the time I was hired).

    And I still feel quite nervous at the moment. I’m afraid they might regret hiring me or think I’m bad at the job or something. The feedback I’ve got so far (though it’s only been a week of course) suggests otherwise, but I’m still worried about turning out to be less competent than they expect.

    As part of the interview/application process, I had to take an excel test and another computer-related test (this is an admin role where this is very relevant). Apparently I scored very highly on this test as 2 different people have said something along the lines of “you got a very impressive test result in your interview”. So I now also worry I’m not going to live up to their expectations of how good they seem to think I am at that. As actually, I really am very average in my excel skills (I did say in my interview that my excel skills may be rusty as we actually barely used it in my last job).

  145. ShiverPug*

    How do people deal with balancing urgent projects vs planned out projects?

    I work in design and communications and I try to schedule working time on my calendar for projects where we are given advance notice. I try to schedule for more time than I think it will take and to make sure that the time is scheduled several days before we promise it due.

    But what seems to end up happening is an urgent project with short turn-around time gets thrown at us and then that’s blowing my schedule out of the water completely. I’ll get the urgent project completed (more or less on time) and then the projects where people actually gave us advance notice miss their deadlines. Fortunately, the type of work I do rarely has actual drop-dead due dates, but I know my reputation has taken a hit because of this as has my office’s.

    Obviously this system isn’t working, but I’m not coming up with any better ideas. I honestly can’t really tell if I’m just incompetent (I don’t think so!) or if the workload here is more than what one person can handle in a timely manner.

    1. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      Are the short-notice projects that you get short notice because they legitimately arose unexpectedly, or did the person who gave them to you just procrastinate on getting to you? If it’s the latter, I think it’d be fair to say “Sorry, with this little notice I can’t finish it by Friday because I’m already working on three other projects due then. I can have it to you by Tuesday.”

      Also, are all the people you’re getting projects from related (like internal) rather than separate clients? If so, I think it’d be fair to get in touch with them when an urgent project takes priority and just be straightforward: “I’ve been working on your teapot brochure and have finished X and Y, with just Z left to do. Unfortunately, the coffeepot division just contacted me with an urgent request for a flyer for Thursday’s conference. That means your brochure won’t be ready tomorrow as planned, but I believe I’ll be able to wrap it up by Wednesday afternoon.”

      Barring any of that, I think my only suggestion is to pad the estimates you give even more… keep your original estimates as your personal goals, but tell the people you’re delivering things to something a little farther out.

      Sounds frustrating. You have my sympathy.

      1. ShiverPug*

        They’re usually last minute due to lack of planning, BUT, they’re coming from our president or other suitably higher up office and we can’t say no (all my clients are internal). I like the idea of just being frank with people, but I probably can’t name specific projects. Part of our job is to protect our president’s reputation (internally and externally) and right or wrong, the culture here doesn’t tend to give that office a lot of respect. I’ll ask my boss if they’re ok with me using that type of phrasing.

    2. SophieChotek*

      I feel exactly the same. I just got a “where is X” from my boss — but it kept getting pushed back due to other urgent projects, etc. I guess X just became an urgent project, so now I will have to focus on getting it done. It seems like we often operate in crisis/this-must-be-done-now mode…which means usually my plans to work ahead, etc., rarely pan out. And the few times I’ve had a slow week, I am so exhausted and playing catch-up with emails, etc. I don’t get to the projects that got pushed back. I hear you – but I don’t have any good solutions for you.

      1. ShiverPug*

        YES! This is how it is constantly. It actually makes me feel better to know someone else has to deal with this.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          Sorry not to explain more when I posted – had cold hands! – but the idea is to protect time for the stuff that is important but not urgent, like those planned-out projects.

          I do wonder if always doing some things at short notice is sort of feeding that cycle and it may be interesting to try asserting more boundaries.

  146. Elizabeth the Ginger*

    We just got one of those irksome all-staff emails reminding everyone to do X because the sender saw one person not do X. Blergh.

    3. Julianne*

      We got TWO of those this week, and even though neither was about anything I did, one of them now requires everyone to do X, due Monday, where X is a task that will easily take 8 hours. COOL.

  147. LQ*

    Failure and agile together and apart.
    Any thoughts on when you are failing miserably on something and you are working hard at it but you don’t seem to be making traction. Specifically when you have the support for the most part from your boss and resources, you just can’t seem to get other unrelated teams you have to work with on board. A lot of this is time. I need more time to learn my new role. I need more time to get in the resources that we need. I need more time for everything. But I just feel HORRIBLE about it.

    Agile. Part of my new role is being a product owner so I’m trying hard to learn all I can but I’m behind. Just, always behind. I’ve done some training (and I have product owner training scheduled, as well as scrum master so I can know what is expected). But I’d really like to find a good community to talk about it online and ask questions like am I really responsible to know what the best practices for security are? Do I need to become a security expert? Accessibility? UX? CI/CD piplines? Automated testing? Microservices? Serverless? AWS? Do I have to learn all the languages so that I can check all their work? Do I need to become an expert in literally everything so that I can tell people what to do because….I don’t have time to do that. (And I’m being a little over the top I know I shouldn’t, but I don’t know how to manage a team of people who don’t report to me without this, and I’m not sure even if they did if I could be confident in their work when I’m catching things now. I don’t know what I’m not catching. I only know I am catching something at least every single user story that is clearly, visibly wrong to me and I have no clue what I’m doing. The team is supposed to be mostly expert developers but we are all new to agile.)

  148. Buffay the Vampire Layer*

    I have what is hopefully a new twist on the should-I-contact-them-after-an-interview question.

    I’ve had two rounds of interviews with a potential new employer, both of which went well. After the second round last Wednesday I sent thank you notes to everyone, copying the admin who set everything up. She responded (Thursday) saying thanks and we’ll be in touch soon.

    Since it’s only been a week I wouldn’t ordinarily think of following up. However, I’ve been having weird problems with my gmail account and haven’t gotten a number of emails. No they’re not in spam, I check that daily. They’re not somehow being routed to trash either, as I’ve checked that too. One of these missing emails was from my husband, and he showed me the sent mail folder with a copy of an email with no bounceback or error message, but it just never showed up on my end. I’ve been trying to figure out how to fix this issue for a while now but haven’t yet found an answer.

    Would it be really weird to send an email saying hey I haven’t been getting all my messages, so if you need to reach me please call my cell while I figure out my email problem? I’m particularly touchy about this ever since a couple of years ago a potential employer got my email address spectacularly wrong, sent a bunch of preemployment docs (background check and such) to the wrong email address and, when I didn’t send back the forms as requested, assumed I decided not to take the job without ever giving me a call.

    1. AnonAndOn*

      I found this page in regard to missing Gmail messages. The person who answered it gave a troubleshooting checklist. You may want to check that out just to make sure there’s nothing wrong with your account.

  149. too many job offers*

    All right, I’ll preface this by saying that I’ve spent my entire career thus far (3.5 years out of college) working for small- to mid-sized arts nonprofits, so this level of puzzle piecing jobs together isn’t weird for me.

    Right now I’m working part-time (10-15 hours/week), with completely flexible hours besides events, as the Managing Director for a small (100k annual) dance company (SDC), $20/hr. I also work a few days a week as a Box Office Associate (with some admin assistant duties) at a much larger theater company (LTC). Right now is their busy season, so while I’m usually here 3 days a week (21 hours), right now it’s 4 (28 hours), $11/hr.

    The Box Office Manager at LTC is restructuring her job, moving entirely into marketing (which she’s been spending half her time on thus far), which opens up the Box Office Manager job. I just got an email from our LTC’s Managing Director, asking if I’d meet with her and the President on Monday to discuss “taking on more responsibility.” (Box Office Manager had given me a heads up that this would be happening, so I know this is what it’s about.)

    At the same time, SDC has a new (as of last month) board treasurer and he and the ED are really excited about increasing our annual revenue, which includes more hours for me (20-25/week in the short term, with the ideal of full time within the next year). This is what I want to do, but it’s also a lot more tenuous and, of course, if the money isn’t there, the increase in hours won’t happen.

    The LTC job could look like a lot of things–anything from a small increase in hours (30/week) and salary (?), to full-time exempt with benefits. But I’ve very much thought of LTC job as a stopgap and, with all due respect to box office managers world ’round, it feels like I’m working at a lower level than what I’m capable of and what I’m doing elsewhere, just due to the nature of the job. On the other hand, benefits and stability! And I’d be managing PEOPLE, not just organizations and projects, which is something I’ve yet to do (SDC is the ED/Artistic Director, me, and dancers, so I have no reports). I would rather stay in the role I’m already in at LTC and put more effort into making the Managing Director job at SDC closer to full time (with the 3-year goal of hiring a staff member!), but I realize that’s the riskier, less-stable option, and I’m having a hard time wanting to say “no” to a promotion, even when it’s not in line with my career goals.

    Any advice to balancing multiple goals and priorities and deciding between different opportunities, or stories about rejecting promotions and how that turned out? Feel a little overwhelmed by the sudden amount of possibility here.

  150. Be_Kind_To_Owls*

    I was hoping to gain some insight from you all (this is long and I apologize in advance for my ramblings). Right now I am currently unemployed and am looking for the next step in my career path. Some background: this year has been super stressful for me (in good ways and in bad). I got married to my husband earlier this year and we bought a house in late 2016. These were all super exciting things but it’s definitely stressful to buy a house, plan a move while also planning a wedding while also working over 40 hours a week. Then in June, my husband was arrested for a DUI. While the DUI was upsetting enough (especially since I found out my husband was hiding a small drinking problem from me the whole time we were together and it shook our marriage when it was just beginning), the situation at work was unbearable. I worked on a team of three (me and two other ladies) all doing the same functions in Event Marketing (mainly processing contract paperwork so our company can represent our product at fairs, trade shows, etc). Understandably I had to take some time off for my wedding and honeymoon this year, along with taking a few days off after the whole DUI situation so I could secure a lawyer for my husband and get him into therapy to start giving him the tools he needed for him to overcome his drinking problem. While I was off, there was no team mentality with the workload and both times I came back to the office dealing with excessive backlogs because no one wanted to even help cover my workload (even when my coworkers had nothing else to do). I was working 45+ hour weeks during the whole summer because my normal workload was so excessive while my coworkers shopped on Amazon and watched YouTube videos while on the clock (although we did the same tasks, my offices were way busier than the offices of my other two coworkers during the summer so I had 5x more contracts to process than everyone else). It didn’t help that my one coworker and I never got along and she’s a suck up so my boss always took her side even when me and the third coworker (who I got along with fine) would tell my boss she was being lazy and not helping us with our workload since she literally just watched YouTube videos all day. It got to the point where I was so overwhelmed with work and my personal life that I got to a very dark place. There was no chance of career advancement at my job and I was overworked like a dog because my boss was a people pleaser and didn’t want to take any of the work off my plate. I couldn’t even look for another job while there since every time I took even an hour or two off in a day, I would come back to a crisis the next day since no one covered my work and would leave things for me that were super urgent and needed to be taken care of immediately. Finally, after crunching numbers with my husband we realized we would be fine financially if I took some time off to look for another job. I gave my former boss my resignation and told him I would stay on for another month so I could train my replacement and not leave him in a lurch (I also didn’t want to burn any bridges). All he said was that “it always stinks to lose talented people” then promptly hired someone with zero administrative experience when I had over five years under my belt. That was just a nail in the coffin for me. I busted my ass at that job and was always known as the “office rockstar” by all the upper management and that is how it had to end for me. I still get teary eyed thinking about all the ways my former company screwed me over, but that is a rant for another day.

    After leaving my job in late September of this year, I took a six week sabbatical just to relax for once and get my head on straight before starting my job search. I sent my first applications out about a month ago, and so far I think the response rate has been really positive (all thanks to Alison’s advice on this blog!). I got called back for at least a phone screen by 60% of the companies I applied for and I made it to the final round of interviews at four companies so far (I have pretty strong credentials in my field). One company I did not receive the job offer (it was between me and another candidate and I came in second place), the second company it was the same scenario but they liked me so much they did have me come in to interview for another position (I’m still waiting to hear the results from that one), and two of the other companies just finished up with final interviews so I’m still waiting to hear the results of those. Is this a good sign that I will get a job soon? Are these results normal in the current job market? I am literally interviewing at one to two companies every day for in-person interviews so I have no idea how I would have been able to take this much time off work to interview if I still had a job. I wanted to wait until I had a job offer before quitting my last job, but the stress was too unbearable and it was literally affecting my mental and physical well-being. Any advice or insight is much appreciated! :)

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Alison’s go-to on this question is no answer means keep looking. I love her advice because it’s in our best interest to keep going if an employer does not nail down an answer for us.
      FWIW, it sounds like you are doing very, very well. Just my opinion but it looks like some thing might come up soon for you. As Alison says, keep going, don’t stop until you have a job.

  151. clow*

    So today I solved a problem that has been pretty difficult to deal with, and because I wasn’t the one who communicated that it was solved, everyone thinks the guy who did communicate it fixed it. I’m not really sure how to get credit back without being petty in the email but it really sucks. Especially when I consider that some people wanted this person to take control from the start because he is more experienced than I am.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      This may not be good advice, but I would probably reply all and say “Fergus – Thank you for letting everyone know that I was able to solve this. If anyone has any questions about what I did, feel free to ask me!”

      NB: I am a petty, petty b!tch sometimes.

      1. fposte*

        I don’t think pettiness even has to be involved–it doesn’t sound like he claimed credit, just said that it was fixed–so I think your suggested script is a pretty reasonable one if you do it fast. (You can also go with “I was pleased I managed it in time! Thanks for letting people know, Fergus.”)

        1. clow*

          yeah I don’t think he took credit on purpose, just, everyone assumed he took over for me (my boss and lead know its all me, so I guess I felt petty). I like your suggestions for how to word a response, thank you both!

  152. Sparkly Librarian*

    Posting this from a street corner outside City Hall where striking workers have closed down all traffic and are marching in the street demanding a fair contract. I think I’ve worn out 4 picket signs this week by waving them too hard. I have half a voice and a sore back and tired feet, but I feel good about the turnout from our members and the support and solidarity by other unions from nearby cities and adjacent professions.

    1. zora*

      OMG I think we’re neighbors!!! Yay, Solidarity! I wish I could be out there joining you all, but stuck at my desk job. But I fully support you all and I hope you get a good contract soon!! Just remember there are lots of us out here sending you love and support even if we can’t physically be there. UNION POWER!

      1. Sparkly Librarian*

        Thanks! Remember, anyone can or email the Mayor or City Council members to express support for workers. Tell your friends, family, coworkers, and neighbors.

      2. Julianne*

        Yay unions! I marched in support of my union for the first time last winter and it was exhilarating (and freezing, it was about 20F that day) and inspired me to get more active in the union.

  153. An Annoyed Anon*

    I want to know here if I made the right decision on something that happened a while ago. Some reference: My office is a small branch of an international company; we’re less than fifteen employees, and most of these people regularly come everyday to the office. Because of our limited size, we have one manager (mine) and one director, who acts as a representstive of our branch and doesn’t really overlook anyone else’s work or acts as their boss; my coworkers actual bosses probably or barely know they exist.

    And one of my coworkers – let’s call him Bill – is a grade-A jerk, and at one point I nearly reported him to HR, but never did.

    For some reason, the two other women who work in our office really like Bill, and the three of them are friends. Bill’s disruptive, constantly talking loudly about not-work related things, and is overall rude and never acts professionally – I am always grateful when he works from home, which is often. But worse of all is that he constantly makes really offensive comments and innapropriate jokes to my female coworkers, and they just laugh it off and don’t seem to mind, which boggles me. Example: recently Bill asked my coworker, who lost a lot of weight through an intensive and expensive diet, if she’d gained weight, because he could tell she had (he really couldn’t!), and one time he picked up his desk phone, fake-called my coworker’s husband, and loudly asked if he’d wore jeans to bed the previous night because she was, in his words, unbearably annoying that morning (she wasn’t!!!); Bill’s made many other misogynist and downright rude comments to both my female coworkers, but that one truly stuck with me. Bill tried joking with me a few times (nothing so appaling, thankfully), to which I usually laughed it off and gently shut him down, since back then I was the newest one in the office and didn’t want to stirr up trouble, but one time he told me that, one day while I was away, he’d planned to hide all of the personal items I kept on my desk, then take a picture of my bare desk and text me, asking if I’d taken them away because they were “gone”. So I snapped, told him that making me freak out and worry would not be funny, and when he insisted it would be a harmless prank I retorted that in that case, since I couldn’t trust him, I wouldn’t keep anything on my desk anymore, and immediatelly started putting everything away to take home. Bill was pissed at this, told me that he wouldn’t joke around with me anymore (THANK GOD), and we have only spoken to each other professionally since then.

    What really crossed the line for me, you might be asking? Surprisingly it wasn’t the desk prank, since he never went through with it, and it wasn’t the teasing of my female coworkers, since I felt it wasn’t my place to complain for them if they didn’t mind it. Rather, a few months ago, during lunch, we were talking about pets, and I told the table at large that my dog is currently 13 years old, to which Bill said, with his trademark goofy smile, “so she’s pretty much dead, huh?”

    I was shocked and extremely offended, and after lunch I asked my manager whether he thought it’d be appropriate to report Bill to HR, because I seriously wanted to. He thought I should just talk to Bill and tell him not to joke around with me the way he does with the other girls, and that if he kept doing it, THEN I should escalate it to HR. But that never sat right with me.

    (Bonus: Bill, at one point, told me and one of my female coworkers that dogs are “replaceable”, and that as soon as our dogs die we’ll just go and get new ones, like it’s nothing. When I argued that not everyone feels that way and that different people will react according to their specific situation and that he shouldn’t say it like it was a given or a certain thing, because it most certanly wasn’t, Bill said that we didn’t get it yet because we never had a family pet dog die, and since he did he knew better. I found that extremely awful of him to say, not to mention insensible, because that particular coworker of mine doesn’t want children and adores and treats her dogs like they are her own kids, and Bill knows this.)

    Do you guys agree with my manager? Should I have said something to HR when the incident happened? Since this was a few months ago I won’t report it anymore, but I always wondered if I should have.

    1. Menacia*

      I would say, the comments about dogs is not really the type of issue to bring up to HR. The *other* comments he makes might be something to bring up, in that you are being indirectly affected by the things Bill is saying to your coworkers that you can hear. It’s too bad your coworkers don’t feel the same as a unified front might be better here. I don’t think you’re going to shut him down, and perhaps not even make him aware of what he’s doing, so it might be best to avoid him (and wear earplugs) unless you have to deal with him about a work-related topic.

    2. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      Did your manager actually call you and your female colleagues “girls”? UGH. (I assume you’re not a bunch of 16-year-olds.)

      I think the dog comment, while clearly showing that Bill is a jerk, isn’t one I’d take to HR on its own. It’s not illegal to be a jerk. On the other hand, the sexist comments (like harassing women about their weight and suggesting that if they’re not in a good mood it’s because of something their husbands did) might be worth going to HR about, or even just the pattern of Bill trying to “get a rise” out of women while treating his male coworkers differently.

      1. An Annoyed Anon*

        It does sound bad now that you mention it, but everyone in the office is fairly close, and in my native language calling the female employees “the girls” is more of a casual way of referring to all the women without sounding too stiff. It’s not as offensive as it ends up sounding in english :P language and cultural things and whatnot

    3. Temperance*

      I hate when men excuse other men’s shit behavior. I personally think that Bill should be shitcanned/reported for his constant sexual harassment and misogyny.

    4. AnonAndOn*

      Ugh, Bill sounds awful.

      I wonder if the other women he makes rude so-called “jokes” about may feel as offended by him as you do, but may laugh and joke back because they’re afraid to stand up to him.

      1. An Annoyed Anon*

        I’m pretty sure they might feel offended but don’t really take it personally, but we’re not that close so I never really asked. The way they handle it is, if Bill needles them, they needle him right back, or they just laugh awkwardly, call him an idiot or something of the sort, and let it go. Kinda reminds me of high-school – which I hated.

        And it’s not the case that they’re afraid to stand up to Bill, because 1) he’s not intimidating whatsoever, and 2) because he’s no one’s superior (we’re all around the same level in the office). When they really want to they do tell him to fuck off and cut the crap, but usually they laugh along with him because they think he’s the life of the office, and that days without him around are boring. Ugh.

    5. clow*

      I think the rude jokes he makes to women would be HR, the jerk way he thinks of pets as replaceable, not so much. In reality, it doesn’t matter if he made those offensive jokes to you or some other women, you heard it and it wasn’t OK, at least at my workplace, we have been told to report that sort of thing even if it isn’t towards us. I question your manager if he/she thinks these sorts of jokes are ok, just because a woman laughs that crap off, doesn’t mean she thinks its OK. We have been conditioned to laugh stuff like that off and seethe on our own time since we were children after all.

    6. An Annoyed Anon*

      Thanks to everyone who replied! I do agree that although my coworkers are not bothered by the comments, that I could and should report Bill to HR for saying offensive and misogynistic things. However, because the office is so small, and because I’m the only one who obviously doesn’t like his “jokes”, if he was contacted by HR it would be obvious that I was the one who reported him, and I’m pretty sure that would create a terrible work environment in the office for me.

      That said, I’m glad you all agree that not contacting HR about the dog comment was the right move. You’re right, Bill being an asshat isn’t really something I could really report to HR; maybe if he had a direct supervisor I could talk to them about his unprofessional behavior in the office. My manager agrees that Bill’s annoying, inappropriate, and highly disruptive, which is a relief to hear, but unfortunately we can’t do much about it – so we both wear earplugs to drown out Bill’s constant chattering.

      As a parting note: one time he lifted his shirt, rubbed his stomach, and yelled out in frustration just because he spent about fifteen minutes filling a form that he didn’t want to fill, only to be told he didn’t have to fill it. I wish I was kidding. If only I could burn the image from my mind’s eye…

      1. AnonAndOn*

        Ew! He sounds grosser and grosser with each story you share. Yuck! Sorry that you have to deal with him.

      2. LCL*

        Have one more meeting with your manager, and ask him to manage Bill. This situation sounds like a classic example of a manager who is Basically a decent person , not a harasser himself, so believes harassment is groping, rape and threatening propositions. That’s where many of us were in the 70s and eighties, when feminists first started talking about this stuff. Suggestive smutty comments and always talking about sex were not considered harassment.

        In your meeting tell boss that this kind of comment is considered harassment and it must be stopped. Forget about the general glass bowl nature of Bill, that won’t change. But the Bills of the world will stop with the sex stuff at work if told it’s not allowed, by someone in authority. Some people are so dense it has to be spelled out.

  154. New Here*

    How do I turn down a task I don’t think I have enough experience for without it seeming like I’m shirking responsibility?

    I’m pretty new at my job/the workforce (graduated in May, started work at the end of June) so I don’t exactly know how to handle this. I don’t have a constant direct supervisor, we’re matrix managed by whichever VP is in charge of our current project. I’m on a project with a VP who I haven’t worked with much, and a new girl who started a few weeks ago. He asked me to check her data entry work, although my coworker Bob had previously said I shouldn’t check new girl’s work because I wasn’t experienced enough. It should be noted that Bob is not a VP, he’s much more junior (although he is senior to me.)

    I tried to speak up (I said “are you comfortable with me checking her work? On [previous project] Bob said someone else should do it”) and the VP said he thought it was fine and just to come to him with any questions. However, in a later conversation with Bob he looked concerned that I was checking her work at all. Should I have been more forceful? This VP is a very reasonable guy, but they’re all a little removed from the everyday reality of entering and checking the data so I’m worried that I wasn’t clear enough.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      It sounds like this is something that VP and Bob need to sort out.

      Maybe mention to Bob “Hey, VP asked me to do this, but you said I shouldn’t. Can you talk to VP and figure out if I am supposed to or not?”

      1. New Here*

        Thanks! He knew that I had been asked to do it, he just seemed concerned that that was the decision that had been made I guess? The thing is Bob isn’t actually on this project at all, so it seems weird to send him over to VP and he isn’t going to second guess VP on this, he was just concerned. (And it’s not that he’s butting in unnecessarily either – he was actually checking in last night to see why I was staying late and if I needed help, even though he’s swamped right now.)

    2. ShiverPug*

      Do you report to Bob at all or has he been asked to train you? It’s sounding a bit like he may be overstepping his boundaries if he doesn’t manage you or if he isn’t responsible for your work.

      1. New Here*

        He was involved in my training, and on the previous project he was coordinating things so it made sense that he asked me not to check. On the current project he isn’t managing me or my work though.

    3. Observer*

      You’ve made your concern clear. If you are really worried, you can shoot your VP an email to clarify that, yes you should be checking her work, even though Bob thinks you are not experienced enough. Not in an “are you sure this is a good idea?” way but “I just want to make sure I have this clear.” way.

      After that, just do it. It’s possible that the Bob is right, but maybe he’s wrong. And ultimately, unless there would be severe repercussions if you make a mistake, it’s the VP’s call to make, not Bob’s.

  155. Jolie*

    Ouff…. I had the week from hell and need to have a good rant.
    Background : our workplace is a small local nonprofit that does policy research and monitoring of public services. Four people are employed:

    Myself -office nerd / policy researcher/ writer of reports
    Fergus – coordinator of volunteers/interns and field research
    Jane – office manager, payroll /finance and generally in charge of Stuff Running Smoothly
    Lucinda – our boss, the CEO of the organisation.

    We also have a base of volunteers and interns that come and go, mostly made up of undergrad and high school students on school /uni placements. This past week, on Monday, a bunch of high school students from the local school were due to start a placement. This coming Monday, we have a big event coming up.

    Up until this week, I was actually really, really happy with the team dynamic we all had (basically, we’re all complementary personalities, that make us good at what we do)and I particularly got on with /respected professionally Fergus, who was a super personable guy and, as far as I could tell, was doing an amazing job of organising the volunteers, mentoring them and keeping them involved.

    Schedule from Monday morning as agreed on Friday : 9 am Fergus meets with the high school girls and gives them induction, they take part in one of our planned activities. In the meantime, 10:30 I need to be in the opposite side of the neighbourhood for a consultation meeting with a community group, Jane is coming with me to take notes. Lucinda has her own meeting with some bigwigs.

    Sunday night : Fergus texts our workplace WhatsApp to let us know he has the flu and is in no condition to come to work. Well, bugger, those things happen. Normally I work 10-ish to 6-ish because I live rather far away and don’t do mornings well. Nevermind, I ‘ll wake up at 6:30 to be in office before 9,so I can open the volunteer space (I had one set of keys, Fergus had the other one). Then Jane stays behind to do induction with the schoolgirls, I go on my own to the consultation meeting and pray to a pantheon of assorted divinities from sundry religions that they would let me record the meeting audio and take notes later (and that Fergus has a speedy recovery).

    Tuesday : Fergus is still ill, he now says he’s on antibiotics. No word from him on plans for the schoolgirls. Lucinda, Jane and I have an emergency meeting about what to do with the gaggle of schoolgirls now on our hands, in need of supervision and coordination. Jane and I divide responsibilities and we swiftly find them stuff to do. We all hope Fergus comes back soon, this is a busy time, but hey, it’s nobody’s fault the man is ill, right?

    Wednesday : Jane is doing an amazing job of managing the schoolgirls (and a bunch of uni student interns) in the morning, despite the fact that this is very different from her usual job attributions, she has zero experience with students and she’s very much not a kid person. I spend my afternoon working on a report from the middle of a public library, so that I can supervise the schoolgirls doing questionnaires with librarygoers at the same time.

    Wednesday evening, seven PM, I’m still stuck in a filing some data. THE BOMB COMES : Fergus was never ill to begin with, and he is resigning his job, effective immediately. The way he announces it : a message in the volunteers’ WhatsApp group, saying nothing more than “I’ve quit. If you have any queries call the office number or email the generic info@organisation email”. WHAAAAT? Cue a good dozen of panicked replies from the university students about who the frig will coordinate /evaluate them now? (Their placement is graded as coursework, based partly on Fergus reporting to the university about their project). With absolutely no follow up from him. Entire radio silence.

    Thursday, I find out more about the situation from Lucinda. The three of us had started work around the same time about eight months ago, and had a six months probation period. During probation, you have to have one week notice to either resign or be fired. After that, it’s four weeks. Turns out that :
    – There were crucial parts of Fergus’ job that he was just not doing at all (reporting, monitoring and evaluation). Yes, he was really good with organising events and mentoring volunteers, but that was only half of his job.
    -Lucinda had had a series of supervision meetings with him to try and get him to do his full job – to which he always said “Yeah, yeah, I will” and he never followed through.
    -Consequently, his probation had been extended. He refused to sign his supervision form.
    – After this, he started to shift these bits of his work to either me, Jane or leave, worse, the student interns. I didn’t catch on, because he asked me things I didn’t mind collaborating on and I didn’t know they were specifically his to do, and it was infrequent enough. The bulk of his reporting work was actually shifted to the student interns.
    -Lucinda gave him a last resort deadline until Monday to sort out his s*** and do the work that needed to be done. Instead, he chose to resign and to use on purpose sick and annual leave days to give absolutely no notice at all.
    – Upon leaving, he wrote to our board of trustees saying that we didn’t have a safeguarding policy in place (untrue) and that he feels oppressed because there is no one else above Lucinda in the organisation (well yeah, we’re an office of four, and she reports to the board, who are actually very hands-on) and that she must be on his case just because she doesn’t like him.
    -He may or may not have applied for a PhD claiming to have done research work that I actually did. Well how the frig will he do a PhD if he can’t write his own monitoring reports?

    Everything is under control now, Jane and Lucinda have been both great at planning and having everything covered. I’m just sad because I was completely blindsided by this, and I would never have expected someone I liked and respected to turn out like this.

    Advice, hugs and virtual mulled wine welcome.

    1. clow*

      wow, what a cluster. That sucks, I’m sorry you had to go through this, and find out someone who respected turned out this way. Good for you guys for keeping it all together though, it really sounds like the rest of your group are pretty awesome.

    3. AnonAndOn*

      I am sorry to hear this. What he did was awful! It’s great that the rest of the team has been keeping the ship sailing though.

    5. Observer*

      What goes round comes round.

      He’s not going to be able to swing his PhD like this, that’s for sure.

  156. Senua*

    I share a direct report (student worker) with my co-worker. My co-worker is 44 but has the maturity and work-sense of a 14-year-old boy. The student won an Xbox One X and one-time-use game code in a raffle outside of work a few weeks ago. The co-worker was put out because he recommended the raffle and never won anything…last week he asked the student to bring him the game code as a finder’s fee if he wasn’t going to use it. Student brought it to him. :( When I asked the student about it he said co-worker told him his kids would play it and student didn’t want to let them down.

    This is one of many unethical things co-worker does on a regular basis and it feels very power hungry. Do I need to let it go or let someone know?

    2. Higher Education Database Dork*

      Ew, that is gross. Is this part of larger pattern? Have you seen (and/or documented) other behavior like this? I’d keep a close eye on it.

      1. Senua*

        Definitely. He brags about getting things for free, taking advantage of coupons or deals outside of their ruleset (bringing his young boys to “flirt” with the female cashier…sadly, he actually said that…to let each of their family members use a deal only meant for 1, using a coupon in-store then going through the drive-thru to use a second), and he’s one of those who show up to another department’s work-related functions after it’s over with Tupperware containers to take food home. He also has a LOT of work issues ranging from motivation to quality of work to being creepy and borderline sexually harassing. Management knows about all of the above.

        1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

          Then definitely yes, tell someone. Sounds like it would just be adding to the pile, but sometimes the pile has to get big enough before someone will do something (sadly).

        2. Observer*

          He’s bringing his sons to “flirt” with the cashier to get the cashiers to let him get away with stuff? OMG!

          That’s gross and show incredibly bad judgement. If he’s doing this in any work related context, or in places that know who his employer is, you need to let the higher ups know about it, because this could really make your organization look really bad. If it’s all personal, it still shows enough bad judgement that you clearly need to make sure that they know of all of the work related stuff he’s doing wrong. As Higher Ed says, each piece can add up.

    3. Rainy*

      I think you need to report it–and if your coworker is doing unethical things, you should probably be reporting them as well.

    4. Observer*

      You ABSOLUTELY need to report this. What your coworker is doing is glaringly unethical, which is a problem all of its own. But, also, if the intern is coming to you through a school program, this could have some pretty bad effects for the business. Your company may not care of the internship programs goes up in smoke, but the reputational damage could be significant.

  157. Higher Education Database Dork*

    Taking a break in IT

    I am pregnant with my second child, and my husband and I have decided that he is going to leave the workforce for a while to take care of kiddos. We’re planning on him being home for about 3-4 years. He is in IT (as am I), and the bulk of his experience is server administration and end user support, with some networking, desktop troubleshooting, etc. He can work equally well in a data center as well as a help desk. What are some good things he can do during his time away from the workforce to help him keeps his skills fresh, so that when he’s ready to get back in, he won’t be 4 years behind? He’s considering going back to school, or doing some certifications. All thoughts and suggestions appreciated!

    1. copy run start*

      A degree if he doesn’t have one sounds good, but I’m not sure it’s worth going back for a master’s (or second bachelor) if he already is established in the industry and doesn’t need it to advance. Certifications are also good, but I would wait until he’s closer to returning to work so they’re not stale/he doesn’t have to take them twice*. Could he do volunteer IT work somewhere? Or take a very part-time role? Maybe a micro consulting business?

      *Most of the certs I know of expire after 3 years.

    2. Observer*

      Also, consider setting aside some money for him to spend on keeping up with technology, even consumer stuff (because that’s driving a lot of the industry). It won’t necessarily give him direct transferable skills, but it will help him keep up with the trends and changes going on.

  158. Kracken*

    I’m reeling a little right now. I started a new job 4 days ago. Yesterday my dog died. It came out of nowhere. He was a little sick but nothing I haven’t seen before from him, and he usually bounced back in a few days. I told my coworker and ran out half way through the day.

    I know in this situation what I did was fine, but I still feel like a screw up and it’s embarrassing that Ive clearly been crying in front of people I don’t know well yet.

    1. Sabrina Spellman*

      I’m sorry this happened, but I’m sure any sensible person will understand how distressing this situation is.

    2. clow*

      that’s awful, im so sorry. I dont think any decent person will think less of you for reacting the way you did.

  159. Sandy*

    I’m not mute, but have an undiagnosed disorder that limits my ability to speak, which was both uncomfortable and embarrassing that I was known as “the girl who never talks” for the majority of my life. Suffice it to say my social life and consequently mental health suffered. Now in my thirties, I’ve considered speech therapy but I feel that my speech issues are just a symptom of a larger problem, and while I’m able to communicate at a high school level at this point I doubt I’ll ever be able to come across as a professional through speech alone. Job interviews are an ordeal for me.

    I am otherwise smart and capable of doing the type of work that will earn me more than $13/hr, and I’ve thought about getting an official diagnosis of whatever disorder this is that I have and ask for accommodation. However, I am not naive enough to think employers will be rushing to hire me and I’ll then be set for life. Does anyone with more knowledge on disability laws know how to best approach this? Should I even try to get an official diagnosis, or will it end up hurting me in the long run?

    1. Courtney*

      I don’t see any way that the diagnosis could hurt you – having more information is always a good thing when it comes to this kind of stuff, in my opinion. Seeing if you can get an official diagnosis and/or speech therapy in your 30s seems late to you now, but once you’re in your 40s, 50s, etc., you could be at the same place you are now with it, or have tried different options to get some help in this area and maybe see some great improvement. It’s worth a shot.

      1. Observer*

        This is a very good point. And, as others have noted, you don’t have to disclose, but the more you really understand the issue, the better your chances of figuring out what actually works for you.

    2. Menacia*

      Hi Sandy,

      If for no other reason, you may want to get an official diagnosis so that you have the necessary information to ensure you are pursuing the correct type of therapy. No one but you can disclose your diagnosis and only if you wish to do so for either explaining your limited speaking or accommodations.

    3. amysee*

      I have a friend with a chronic illness that is considered a disability. She is going through a special federal (U.S) program that does government job placement for people with disabilities and has been pretty happy with it. She’s very smart and capable, like you, just needs some accommodation, and this particular office/program is designed to place people in her situation. There’s more info at USAJobs if that’s relevant to you.

      I would think that getting an official diagnosis would help more than it would hurt– just because you have a diagnosis doesn’t mean you would have to disclose it to anyone, and there may be solutions you aren’t aware of or weren’t available when you were younger. Good luck!

    4. Temperance*

      Sandy, it makes me so sad that your parents didn’t get help for you when you were younger. I definitely think a formal diagnosis and appropriate therapy could really help you.

      I currently have an accommodation due to an injury. Not quite the same thing, and hopefully not permanent, but I feel like I have enough to offer at my job that I can absolutely ask for the things I need to keep doing my job.

    5. Chaordic One*

      Definitely get an official diagnosis and, if appropriate, certainly get some speech therapy.

      While I don’t suffer from the same problems, I do have some chronic health issues that I put up with for much longer than I should have due to stupidity on my part. After finally dealing with those issues I can honestly say that I really regret not getting the appropriate medical care and therapy years earlier. Even though I’m not 100% better, I’m at least a good 75 to 90% better and it was worth it. I wasted years of my life suffering when I didn’t have to.

      Go for it! You’re worth it!

    6. Observer*

      I don’t think that the diagnosis will hurt you, but you still need to think really carefully about the kinds of jobs that you can realistically be effective at. No matter how smart you are or how good you are at some aspects of a job, if you can’t effectively communicate in a way appropriate to the position, there are not a lot of accommodations that are going to be reasonable. Which means that you really need to look for the kind of work that allows you to communicate primarily in writing.

      I hear you on your reluctance to try speech therapy. But, perhaps you should reconsider that. True, it won’t deal with the underlying issue (which I’m assuming you have tried to address), but treating the symptom is sometimes sensible. And even if you don’t get up the level you would ideally like to, even smaller improvements could be significantly helpful.

  160. Anon for this*

    I’m frustrated. For the sake of this forum, let’s say I’m a teapot spout specialist and have a place specialized in making teapot spouts. I have worked early in the process with a couple customers recently who ultimately ended up going to a not very local general teapot factory for their spouts because they wanted a REAL teapot place to make their spouts, even though it doesn’t have a trained spout specialist. My place is real. There is a certification my predecessor let lapse because we’re a small place and the (work for certification) to (work generated by certification) ratio seemed too far off, but now I’m wondering if that’s the only thing that will make us real. Explanations of our specialty and practices certainly don’t seem to. We still hold ourselves to the same standards.

    1. SophieChotek*

      It sounds like it from your description. So many places often suggested, when looking for X work, always ensure your [specialist] is certified (or certified and bonded) or whatever variation exists for the job…

      Do they have enough real-world examples to see? or satisfied customers or online reviews (or whatever is the equivalent) in your industry? Might be options/alternatives to certification – or something to have/build up while getting re-certified?

  161. AnonAndOn*

    To the writers in the thread (I’m thinking about those like Elizabeth West): Have any of you looked at Poets & Writers Magazine? Their online site has job listings and classified ads with different writing jobs, residencies, contests, and grants listed.

  162. AnonAndOn*

    I had a temp assignment for a couple of hours (but still get a half day’s pay) that was the easiest work that one can do in their sleep. A great group of temps was assembled and their energy, as well as that of the client, made the assignment go by really quickly. I was glad to get that assignment but am still hoping to find something permanent, especially when my financial and housing situations are in jeopardy.

    I applied to a few more jobs this week and a few of them were by e-mail. I remember that I came off as “thick” when I stated that I both put the cover letter in the body of the e-mail and as an attachment in a post Alison did on cover letters a month or so ago. This time I stopped being thickheaded and chose to ONLY put the cover letter in the body of the e-mail. Only the resume was attached…no duplicate cover letter attached. Lesson learned! I will listen to AAM!

    I got a notification for a job I applied to seven months ago that the position will be cancelled without being filled. Moving on…

  163. Coalea*

    There’s so much uncertainty at work right now and it’s stressing me out like crazy!
    I’ve been part of the chocolate teapot team for 5 years. It’s not perfect, but overall I enjoy it, do a good job, and have built good relationships with the chocolate teapot client. I’ve been having conversations with my manager about taking on more responsibilities and acting as the unofficial team leader (leading to an official promotion down the line). However, everything that we had discussed is now up in the air due to two separate developments – first, the chocolate teapot client is requiring us to re-bid for the business. We won’t know for several months if we’ve been selected as their teapot provider. Secondly, my company won a big contract to create rice sculptures for a new client. I’ve been told that I will now split my time 80% rice sculptures and 20% teapots. I’ve never done rice sculptures before, all the organizational details are still being worked out, and we will likely have to churn out several rice sculptures before the end of the year. I don’t do well with change under the best of circumstances, and these are far from the best!

  164. Learning*

    So, one of the biggest problems I have at work is learning when and how to let something fail. I don’t mean in situations where the basic project idea isn’t working. I mean situations where the basic project idea works, but somebody isn’t carrying their weight.

    I have trouble letting the project fail because somebody didn’t do their part of the job when I can see a way to intervene and potentially get things back on track. This impulse to fix things leads me to two issues that impact me. One, I end up doing more work than I am supposed to do, because if I pick up someone’s slack they never respond by putting forward more effort. This throws off my planned schedule and project allocations – I expected to need to spend ~10 hours per week on a project, but now I’m spending ~15 hours per week on it to pick up other people’s slack, so some other set of projects is now slipping by ~5 hours per week of my time.

    Two, I am perpetually told by various bosses that I am the “wrong person” to fix problems on the project – I am ruffling feathers of the person who is slacking, and the project manager who didn’t respond to my requests or warnings that things are going off-track, so they accuse me variously of going over their head, not giving them enough warning, giving them too much warning, caring too much. They say I should just leave the project stuck in place and repeatedly tell the project manager I’m stuck waiting on Fred to do his job, even if that substantially harms the project, and even if Fred’s task is small or something I can easily and correctly complete. One of my managers has explicitly told me that some of this grumbling about me fixing problems is something I should ignore in favor of keeping projects on track because other people are complaining to try to save face. A different manager has told me I’ll never get anywhere myself if I’m always fixing other people’s problems.

    How do I balance the need to have projects that are actually successful – which is important for my career, but not important to the project managers – vs. the need to not pick up slack of my co-workers and overload myself? My managers are not able to actually hold other people accountable for their work, and my project managers do not seem to give a rat’s rear about it, so I have to figure something out myself.

    1. Miles*

      couple things to think about:

      If the project fails, the slackers can be disciplined, and their behavior corrected or if that isn’t possible, they won’t be assigned that role any more on future projects. If the project succeeds despite their slacking, they’ll argue that it didn’t really matter anyway.

      Also keep in mind that if you’re taking 5 hours from another project to devote to covering someone else’s slack, then maybe become the slacker on this other project — and that doesn’t help anybody, least of all you.

    2. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

      Can you talk to the manager who wants you to ignore the complainers about setting up something that allows you to try and be active, but without feeding the complainers more? Let that manager know that you’ve been getting conflicting Managerial Advice.

      Maybe keep a log of each project’s status? It can be as informal as a Word document that can be shared with your managers.
      Track the date of the status you’re listing and the status: “Month1, 21, Year – Step H completed. Step I pending Fergus’ charts”
      Then when you’re left hanging, add a new line/status after an agreed amount of time: “Month1, 25, Year – Step I still pending Fergus”

      I’ve been in your shoes, though I had less conflicting managerial input. My boss ended up asking me to do a version of my suggestion so she knew where the hang-ups were, and I felt like I was doing my best to keep things on track because I was still providing input without actually taking over other jobs or “being a supervisor” (a complaint made about me when trying to get things done).

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Hmm. As you’re not the PM I think it’s better to give these status updates to the person who is – it’s not your job to track the project unless you’ve been asked to.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      So I started out thinking you must be the project manager as it sounded like it. I was super confused when I realised you weren’t. I’m having trouble understanding why you aren’t just escalating these issues to the PM?

      “They say I should just leave the project stuck in place and repeatedly tell the project manager I’m stuck waiting on Fred to do his job” – sounds like a very clear instruction.

      “even if that substantially harms the project, and even if Fred’s task is small or something I can easily and correctly complete.” Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. I hear that you want to work on successful projects but it’s not your job to do this.

      You say: “My managers are not able to actually hold other people accountable for their work”

      But why would they, when you are doing it for them?

    4. Observer*

      Two things.

      You that some of these issues are thing you can “easily and correctly complete”. But in the prior paragraph you mentioned how these corrections are messing with your schedule. Which means that you CANNOT EASILY correct them. So, when you are told to leave something alone, the answer (internally or to the instruction giver) is never “Oh, but I can fix that so easily.” That’s just not true.

      You take instructions from your manager, not other managers. If YOUR manager says “let them fail”, then that’s what you do. Of course, you document your head off, both that that’s what your manager told you and how the problem is playing out – who you’ve told, how it’s affecting your part of the project etc. On the other hand, if YOUR manager says “step in and fix it”, you make sure they know what the effect on your other projects are and then go ahead and fix the problem. Again, document all of this.

  165. Headintheclouds*

    Is there ever a reason to disclose a mental disability during an interview? Like for example if I got medication to help deal with it that I didn’t have before losing my previous job over reasons that could be tied to that?

    1. Temperance*

      Oh my goodness no. I wouldn’t tell someone I was just meeting that I take Zoloft, and I think it would come across badly in an interview because it might lead them to believe that you lost your last job due to mental health issues, and it comes across as overshare-y.

    2. Havarti*

      I wouldn’t say anything. Keep your reason to something vague like “I was dealing with some issues and unfortunate my performance suffered as a result but I’ve gotten that straightened out now” or something if you must disclose why you lost your previous job. There’s enough stigma around mental issues that there’s no sense in shooting yourself in the foot.

  166. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

    So, recently my boss had a colleague and me do initial interviews for someone who is going to be working on a peer level with us. When I checked in on expectations, and how to respond if anybody asks about salary (not posted on the job offer page) to let them know that Colleague and Me are not privy to financials (fine, good), but to also make a note because she thinks asking about salary is a strike against the candidate.
    She appears to be firmly in the camp of “If you ask about salary, you’re only about the money and we don’t want you here” while also admitting that literally all the candidates we got were likely to be over-qualified and probably wouldn’t want the level of pay they’re going to offer to the position.

    I didn’t know how to respond to that. My mind, she is boggled.

    1. Nacho*

      My office is the same way. I asked HR about general salary ranges for a possible promotion once, and I was told something along the lines of “we don’t give salary information out because we want people to apply based on where they think they best fit.”

      For sure I wouldn’t rat anybody out to your boss, because you’re right that she’s crazy.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      If you search the archives you will find some good stuff. One of the comments was “Yeah, because we work for free, right?”
      It kind of old school thinking. They will lose good candidates to employers who are not ashamed to talk about pay.

  167. Did I just get sabotaged?*

    Half rant, half feeble advice-seeking. Despite really loving what I do, I’ve been increasingly unhappy at my job of about four years. Our team has a new boss and he’s moving us in a new direction, causing our responsibilities to deviate from what we were originally hired for. I have a coworker/work friend who is more senior than me but not my manager, and she has been feeling similarly about our circumstances and we often commiserate together over our new lack of job satisfaction. I began making plans to apply for a transfer in another part of the company (basically, there’s a problem in another department they’ve been dealing with for awhile, and I was preparing to pitch a new position for myself that could solve it), but was unsure if I should go through with it. Our team is small, close-knit, and I believe they would suffer in my absence, not to mention, I didn’t want to seem like I was throwing a fit and jumping ship within my new boss’s first month without giving him a chance.

    I approached my coworker for her advice. Before I go any further, I do want to say I’ve already realized and accepted that this was a mistake. I let our familiarity cloud my judgment and misread the situation. We have pretty different responsibilities and expertise, and so, I didn’t consider her competition. That said, when I told her I was thinking about applying for a transfer and asked her advice, she mirrored back the things I was already hesitant about: that it would be a bridge-burning move, that our team should stick together during this hard time, and that my transfer request probably wouldn’t be granted. I put in a pin in the idea.

    That was a few weeks ago, and as you’ve probably guessed by now, my coworker just announced that she’s transferring out of the team to take on a self-created position in that other department. I don’t know whether she got the idea from me or had already been pursuing it when I approached her and that’s why she gave me advice not to go for it, but either way, I’m feeling betrayed and hurt (and now trapped in my position, since that was my last exit plan minus straight up leaving the company, which I don’t want to do). Is there anything I can do besides learn from this? Is it worth approaching my coworker to say anything? Should I just cry and drink about it tonight?

    1. CAA*

      You could talk to her about it. Not in an accusatory way, but just explaining that since you asked her for advice on this and you’re really disappointed that she discouraged you from doing this and then took the idea and ran with it. She may explain that she had already pitched it and just wasn’t yet free to talk about it, or she may claim she doesn’t even remember having that conversation with you. Whichever happens will tell you whether there’s anything work salvaging in that relationship.

    2. Kickin' Crab*

      I had something like this happen to me. The other person and I no longer talk. It’s unlikely that there is a charitable explanation for your coworker’s actions.

      1. Tabby Baltimore*

        Sadly, I’m afraid I find myself in complete agreement with Kickin’ Crab. You could ask her, but I’m guessing that no answer other than a straight-up admittance of full-on copy-catting your idea is going to satisfy your curiosity. And, realistically, I don’t think there’s any answer she could give you that would return your relationship back to what it was. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn’t talk to her because, by her behavior, she has told you exactly who she is. So, as hard as it’s going to be, I think you may have to re-calibrate this relationship to one that is more emotionally distant and professional. Given your disparities in responsibilities and expertise, I also don’t think there’s any way you could’ve seen this coming, so *please* don’t beat yourself up that you didn’t. And, FWIW from an Internet stranger, I wish you all the best at getting a new job.

    3. Observer*

      There is no point in talking to her.

      On the other hand, did she take the position you were hoping to create for yourself? If not, there is no reason you can’t go back to your original plan.

      Also, if your boss / new set up is that bad, why would you rule out going outside of the company?

      PS That thought should have been a signal to re-examine her advice to you. Would she tell you that leaving the company is a no go for all of those reasons? I doubt it. That doesn’t change the reality of her behavior, which is shows that she’s not trustworthy. But, it is a lesson to learn for the future.

  168. Kickin' Crab*

    I’m on the fence about whether or not to take an offer. It’s in academia, in a STEM-ish discipline. I did undergrad there, so I know and like the area and the overall university culture. However, in the years that I’ve been away, there has been a lot of turnover at both entry level and in leadership. The department chair is currently on sabbatical, and I’ve been in talks with the interim chair — unclear whether he is being groomed to take on the chair full-time, but seems likely. I’ve also been interviewing and talking with other places as well.

    Average faculty salaries in our discipline are published yearly, stratified by region. I found the 2016 numbers which are about 10% higher than the salary ranges I’m getting quoted. My discipline, like most STEM fields, has terrible gender pay inequity; I am in a “Women in [Discipline]” closed facebook group, and posted recently asking whether those published numbers are accurate or inflated. Didn’t mention places or numbers. A former professor of mine, who has since left, replied saying she’d be happy to share her experiences privately. I contacted her, and she had excellent advice both for this specific location as well as in general for academia.

    A few days later, she contacted me again saying to watch out. It turns out that a grad student colleague of mine, now on faculty, saw my post and her reply, and went to the interim chair to tell him I was gunning for a higher salary. The interim chair then approached my old prof telling her to back off — that’s when she reached out to me to make me aware of this. The offer letter he sent me three days later quotes a salary at the 25th percentile for the region, and he has stated by phone that he won’t go up, and that I “shouldn’t compare salaries because everyone’s different.”

    The whole thing has really soured me on the thought of returning to this place. The offer is otherwise really good, but I’m not interested in this sort of middle school drama. And beyond that, the interim chair’s refusal to negotiate is pretty disturbing. I have another excellent offer from another place that has been very responsive and transparent. It’s in a place I’m not super thrilled about living, otherwise I would have already jumped on it, but maybe now I should take it?

    1. Dear Liza dear liza*

      “Gunning” for a higher salary? Sounds more like due diligence and proper salary negotiation. I would be very concerned about thd red flags you are seeing. (And BOO to the person who saw something in a closed group and went to tattle.)

      I’d also be extremely leery of not knowing who will be permanent chair. Chairs can make or break a department.

      1. Kickin' Crab*

        Agree that chairs can make or break a department. The other wild card is that the other place doesn’t have a division chief in my area. (Previous division chief left at the beginning of the academic year to be dean at a different university.) So either way, there’s leadership uncertainty….

    2. Me*

      I’d stay away from that department. Being unhappy in a department is worse, imo, than in a non ideal city. There’s already politics you don’t want to deal with, imagine what will happen after you start

    3. DrOfRockets*

      It would be good to find out what your former grad student colleague/possible future cow-orker’s salary is, and how it compares to their offer. Sour grapes, perhaps?

  169. Textbook Aquarian*

    I would appreciate advice on how to address a delicate subject with my supervisor and manager.

    I work in a corporate mail room with a small staff. The job involves a lot of repetitive movement and heavy lifting. In early July, I began experiencing symptoms of DeQuervain’s Tendonitis. When my general physician’s recommendations didn’t alleviate the condition, he referred me to an orthopedic specialist. I was given a cortisone shot and placed on restrictions for the next 4 weeks. This meant I couldn’t perform my regular job. My manager was able to place me temporarily in a different department that they oversee.

    My coworkers have not been the most supportive during this situation. When I told one of them about it, the first question they asked is, “Will you be out over Christmas?” The reason being they have two weeks off during the holidays. While having lunch with another, again I was asked if I would be back to cover holiday vacations. Then the day that I returned to the specialist for reevaluation, my supervisor sends an email asking me for an update. They suspect the manager and my workers comp caseworker are not including them in discussions. They also indicated that they are planning on me returning to cover holiday vacations.

    Needless to say, I felt pressured into a decision that I regret now. After weighing my options I elected to have surgery and end the issue permanently. The specialist asked what I would like to do about my restrictions during the 3 1/2 weeks prior and I responded that, “I know what my boss would like me to do.” Thus we modified them to accommodate the holiday vacations. At the time I didn’t want to risk my coworkers’ wraith. They are petty enough to make comments and hold grudges. In hindsight I should have stood up for my own health though. Going back means my condition is likely to regress.

    I have a meeting with my manager, supervisor and workers comp caseworker on Monday morning to go over the fine details of my case. I would like to bring up my coworkers’ comments and how they affected my decision making. Would you advise doing so and how should I word it in a tactful manner then?

    1. CAA*

      No, you should not complain about your coworkers comments. They absolutely have a right to know whether or not their vacations are being cancelled so they can deal with the fallout, and asking for timely updates on your situation is completely reasonable. Sure, it would have been nice if they’d asked how you were or expressed sympathy before asking about their own self interest, but they may be about to lose thousands of dollars in non-refundable airfares or hotel payments and are trying to figure out how to explain this to their families.

      If you agreed to work over Christmas and now you know you won’t be able to, then you just need to say that on Monday morning. Don’t make excuses about how they pressured you into it so you said yes when you should have said no. Just say you can’t do it and apologize for the poor timing and acknowledge the difficulty it is causing for your coworkers and supervisor. They are probably still going to resent the fact that they are losing all or part of their previously approved vacations and family time, but showing that you understand and sympathize with the situation they’re in is likely to help at least a little bit.

    2. Stellaaaaa*

      This is a tricky situation because accommodations might not be enough; it sounds like you’re getting close to not being able to perform the job that you were hired to do. I agree with the gist of the above comment. This situation isn’t your fault, but I think you need to be a bit more realistic about how this could potentially play out. Your employer does not have to keep paying you for work that you’re not doing, and your coworkers aren’t wrong for feeling that your job isn’t getting done…because it’s not.

  170. crookedfinger*

    I’m trying for a new position at my company that I’m perfectly qualified for and would be good at. The job has had two people leave it in the last two of years — one because she didn’t like the job, the other because she wanted to go back into her old industry. From what I’m hearing, my boss is worried that if I take the job, I’ll leave as well.

    I’ve been here for 5 years already, I like the company & my coworkers, and the new job is basically 70% of the stuff I do in my current position (which I like), so I feel pretty confident that I’d be there for at least several more years. How do I assure him that I’m not going to ditch the company in a year if I get the job?

    1. Havarti*

      Would you still be reporting to your boss? Say you do hate the job – would moving back to your old position be possible? If yes, that may reassure your boss you won’t leave. If not, well there’s only so much reassuring you can do and if he chooses not to listen, there’s nothing else you can do. So long as he doesn’t impede you from getting this position though.

  171. Mimmy*

    Quirky job preferences

    In evaluating my current job and future goals, I am growing concerned that my quirky preferences may be seen as unrealistic and, thus, hold me back in my career. Here’s my line of thinking – any thoughts are appreciated.

    1) I think I perform best when I can focus on one task or person at a time. For example, at my current job, I typically get 1 or 2 students scheduled with me at a time; sometimes I get three! One student is ideal – the room is quiet and I feel like I can truly focus on the student, especially when they are at the beginning of the curriculum.

    2) I used to think that I absolutely needed structure and routine. My current job is almost entirely scheduled, sometimes with little room to breathe or play catch up on documentation or other tasks. I do like structure, but this is TOO regimented for me.

    3) When I’m looking at job ads, I want to run whenever I see anything that require being able to “work under pressure” or work in a “fast-paced” or “deadline-driven” environment.

    In a nutshell, I prefer a situation where the pace is reasonable—not too fast, not too slow—and I’m not having to juggle several things (or in my current job, students).

    But…is all of this even reasonable? I want some variety, but is it possible under these conditions? I worry that these preferences rule out the type of careers that I am considering (as described in previous Open Threads), if not most jobs in general. I want to learn, grow, and contribute my knowledge and skills while bringing in income for me and my husband, but I also want my sanity. I have issues with anxiety and sensory overload, which is partly why many jobs can be challenging for me. On a good day, I can make it work, though. (My supervisor knows I have anxiety issues, and she appreciates it when I make an effort to stretch myself a bit.)

    I know freelancing or consulting is an option for those who want to craft their own schedule and choose projects, but I don’t have enough of a work history to warrant this and I’m intimidated by the idea of running my own business.

    In my heart, I know what I want to focus on during my career–I do not want to stay where I’m at. Yet, I wonder if the growth I seek is realistic given what I’ve described above.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Freelancing doesnt allow you to focus on one thing at a time or avoid the things you want to avoid – not in most fields anyway

    2. soupmonger*

      If you find multi-tasking and juggling things difficult, do not set up your own business. Running your own business is not a calm process and your ability to set your own schedule is non-existent. To be honest, I think you’re being too picky. No job is going to offer you this perfect balance between busyness and structure, with enough calm time to complete tasks peacefully. I think you need to decide which of your multiple quirks is the most important one for you to accommodate and learn to manage around the others.

  172. PhyllisB*

    We got snow today!! Underwhelming news to those of you in the Frozen North, but in Southeast Mississippi, it’s a big deal. My grand-children were thrilled; they got a day off from school and my husband did, too (college instructor.) I was the only one who had to work. BUT the highway was driveable and I only had to work two hours so wasn’t bad. Came home to see snowmen all up and down my street. Maybe I was wrong about the Frozen North. My daughter was talking to her boyfriend who lives in Chicago, and he said it was in the mid fifties there.

    1. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

      South Texas here. We got snowfall last night.
      Northern-Blooded Me was super-excited up until the power went out for eight hours (19:45-03:45). Sigh.

      I really do miss having a proper four seasons and look forward to my return To The North.

    2. Julianne*

      We’re supposed to get snow this weekend, and all my newcomer ESL students are PUMPED. All they wanted to talk about today was making snowmen.

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      I’m in a mid-Atlantic state, and we’re expected to get 1-3″ tomorrow (90% chance of snow). Luckily, I don’t have to drive very far for my weekend job (as opposed to my weekday job), but I am SO not looking forward to driving on a potentially icy morning, and then having to clean snow off my vehicle in the surface lot after work. I am not a Snow Fan.

  173. Seespotbitejane*

    I don’t want to put carts before horses, but I have a phone interview on Monday for a position I’m really excited about. It’s with a non-profit that does really cool work and I think it would be a great fit for me culturally and career wise. The job ad listed a specific salary, not a range. The salary listed is at the very bottom of my range, but (assuming the interview/s go well) I’d be happy to do this job at that price because I feel very strongly about the work they do.

    That said, assuming I make it through their whole process and am still excited about the org and they offer me the position, is it gauche to try to negotiate a higher salary since they posted the job at a specific number? I wouldn’t be asking for significantly more and (again, based on the information I have now, subject to change) if they told me no I think I’d still take the position. I also think this is the type of organization that would appreciate/respect my trying to advocate for myself.

    1. TCO*

      What about negotiating benefits instead of salary? Would more PTO, work from home, or a training budget help you feel balanced out on the salary question? I do think that you could ask, “Is that salary firm?” but you should be prepared to hear yes, and if they say yes you shouldn’t push it. BUT–you get to evaluate the job based on the full package, not just the salary, so it’s not like you have to say yes to the offer if the rest of the package doesn’t make the salary workable for you.

      2. MissDisplaced*

        Yes, as a nonprofit they might have more wiggle room with PTO or work hours than actual salary.

        It’s strange though, because with regular profit jobs I’m finding the opposite to be true. In my job search last year, there was NO negotiating PTO at a lot of places, but plenty of room for salary negotiations. Weird.

    2. Stellaaaaa*

      I think you could ask if the salary was negotiable, but I would accept the answer the first time if they say it’s not. You applied for the job knowing that they were offering a flat salary, so I don’t think there’s much wiggle room there.

      One thing I always keep in mind is the length of the commute. I would gladly accept a lower salary for a 10-minute commute. Is this job close to your home?

      1. Seespotbitejane*

        The commute doesn’t factor in right now. It will probably be 30 min+ or longer to drive during rush hour (and I think there’s zero parking) but it’s super easy to reach via public transportation. But we’re planning to move within the next year anyway and we’d be moving somewhere closer to the city and now convenient to the train.

        And right now I’m grossly underpaid. This job is in line with the rest of the market. At the bottom of it, but still a significant raise for me.

  174. Detective Rosa Diaz*

    Does anyone know really well salaried/exempt vs non-exempt? In my last job I was salaried but also had to clock hours and was eligible for overtime. The part where I am confused is my checks were based on my hours for the pay period but I was not hourly? If I was salaried, and we were paid twice a month as our pay periods, shouldn’t all 24 paychecks for the year be equal or close to it depending on deductions / how they are split? I just really feel like my old job underpaid me considerably, because I was making 42k a year, and my checks if on pace with amounts/payment would not have approached anywhere close to that (my checks which came twice a month, I think the highest was about 1130, usually were around 1,000). I am of course accounting for taxes, etc.

    I am in California.

    1. CAA*

      You can be salaried and be exempt or non-exempt. You can also be exempt and get paid overtime, though it’s unusual. If you are non-exempt, then you must get paid overtime. Tracking your hours doesn’t tell whether you exempt or non-exempt, because there are many exempt positions where hours are billed to projects or clients or just counted for tax purposes. Places that track hours may print them on your check stub even if they don’t base your pay on that number, but of course if you were getting overtime, then at least part of your pay would have been based on it, and the overtime would most likely account for the different amounts in your checks.

      In CA, if you are non-exempt, then the overtime rules are that you get 1.5x pay for every hour over 8 in a day and on the seventh consecutive day of work. You get 2x pay for over 12 hours in a day or for over 8 hours on the seventh day. If you are exempt and get paid for overtime, then the employer can pay you straight time for the extra hours, they don’t have to pay you 1.5x or 2x, so you may have been exempt and overtime eligible but not getting a premium for those hours.

      Does your final pay stub give you YTD numbers? Those should tell you how much you earned in total before deductions and how much was withheld for taxes, medical, etc. From that you can see if you were really earning close to $42K/year or some other amount.

    2. Kerr*

      I’m salaried non-exempt, which means I get OT, on the same pay schedule. That amount for $42k seems very low, but taxes or high deductions (insurance, 401k?) could account for it.

      For reference, this is how mine works. I get a set salary amount per pay period, which equals $AnnualSalary/24. Any OT I worked in that period goes into that specific paycheck, so I get a fluctuating paycheck depending on my OT. For one paycheck I might get $Salary + 5 hours of OT pay, and on the next paycheck I have no OT so I just get $Salary.

      For the salary amount only (ignoring OT), I’m not being paid exactly what I worked in that period, because with 24 pay periods, you get a couple of paychecks that cover a 3-week period instead of 2. If I were an hourly non-exempt employee on a 24-week schedule, I’d get more money in the two 3-week checks, because I’d be paid for 120 hours instead of 80. As a salaried employee, I get the equivalent of 86.7 hours ($AnnualSalary/24) per paycheck, and it’s consistent.

      Is it possible that your company worked out a weekly salary ($AnnualSalary/52) and they paid you for the correct number of weeks per pay period (2 weeks for most, then a couple for 3 weeks)?
      Your W-2 at the end of the year should show exactly how much you made, before taxes. If you worked a full year and it’s less than $42,000, something’s screwy.

      1. Detective Rosa Diaz*

        Thank you! I worked there for just under 8 months. It’s a little muddy because I was hired at like, 38k and then bumped up after my probationary period. My checks didn’t increase much after probation and the fact that each one was different amounts made me very uneasy. Because if I was salaried, it should all be the same if I am paid twice per month and they’ve split it that way. (And they did, we were paid 15th and final day of month so like, if I get 500 a month both checks should be 250 to start, you know)?

        It is just weird because at my job now I make more per check but less per hour?

  175. TCO*

    What about negotiating benefits instead of salary? Would more PTO, work from home, or a training budget help you feel balanced out on the salary question? I do think that you could ask, “Is that salary firm?” but you should be prepared to hear yes, and if they say yes you shouldn’t push it. BUT–you get to evaluate the job based on the full package, not just the salary, so it’s not like you have to say yes to the offer if the rest of the package doesn’t make the salary workable for you.

  176. Ghostwriter*

    My boyfriend got in a very, very sticky professional/legal situation through no fault of his own earlier this week, and we’ve both been wrecks as we’ve learned more from lawyers about the expensive, drawn-out process. I’ve been pretty jumpy and distractable but still doing high-quality work. Today, my boss asks me (on slack) if everything is ok in the midst of messaging about work. I said that I was dealing with a serious personal thing and trying to not let if affect my work, and pivoted back to work. She offered to work out a way for me to take some personal days if I need it. For one, I don’t know if this “counts” because we’re not married. I don’t know where to draw the line with explaining enough while still keeping this private. Any suggestions?

    1. Kerryanne*

      I’m sorry for what you are going through. I’m sure that everything will work out in the end, but meanwhile you have got to line up any support and assistance that you can, even if you don’t use it. You can keep your boss informed on a “need to know” basis.

    2. Colette*

      Will a couple of days off help or make it worse? It sounds like she’s offering regardless of your marital status or a detailed explanation, so the question is really what you want.

      1. Ghostwriter*

        The whole situation is making me a bit paranoid, so genuinely kind offers have me waiting for the other shoe to drop. thanks for pointing that out.

  177. Kerryanne*

    I was hired two months ago to replace Steve, who quit abruptly for family reasons. Steve was highly regarded in the office, and was very close to the boss. That boss is now training me, and it’s not going well. He constantly undermines me. His idea of “training” involves giving me a barrage of instructions and directives, some of which contradict each other, and then finding fault with the way I carry them out. He has yelled at me twice for asking “stupid” questions (ie, for not being a mind reader). He leaves brusque notes for me in my postbox; I’ve started to dread seeing any pieces of paper in there, because it’s never good news. He has not once given me any form of positive feedback.

    He doesn’t do this to anyone else in the office, only me. Everyone else likes him.

    In fact, I think he hates me purely because I’m not Steve!

    I had high hopes for this job, and was so excited to get it. Is there anything I can do to salvage the situation?

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      This sounds *really* awful. Any chance you think he’d be willing to assign you to an alternate trainer? Maybe the next time he’s clearly showing his unhappiness with one of your training outcomes, you could say something like “I can see I’m not always meeting your expectations, and I realize that, as the [office manager? department supervisor? whatever his title is], you have a lot on your plate to deal with every day. Would it free up more of your time (or “be more helpful to you”) to just turn my training over to someone else in the office who’s *also* familiar with the X file system/Y program application?” Before you do that, though, maybe you could carefully suss out who on your team is “expert” in what. That way, when you’re talking to him about this, you can suggest a specific name to him, one he should recognize as the “office expert” on that “thing.” Possibly, this could work out as you getting passed from one “expert” co-worker to another to cover various issues/systems/processes, and leave your supervisor out of entirely. Good luck. Please write back and let us know what you decided to do.

      1. Kerryanne*

        Thank you Tabby. I have been thinking and thinking and thinking, since I read your advice. There is actually one person I have in mind! She is a junior supervisor who happens to be greatly trusted by the boss. He consults with her about management matters and even defers to her on a lot of things. And I’ve heard on the grapevine that she approves of me, and hopes I’ll stick around (apparently she wasn’t a huge fan of Steve). I would like to go directly to her and ask her to take over my training, but I don’t know if I can make such an imposition when I’ve only been here a couple of months.
        Might be better to make the boss think it was his own idea? Something along the lines of what you have suggested.

  178. Anon accountant*

    I am doing some contract accounting for my friend’s family business, which has the usual multi-generational problems that are typical (money, who’s in charge, etc). This afternoon I opened up the books and went through them with the son (who runs the business) and had a difficult discussion about how his lack of attention to collecting his revenue is causing problems. I left him standing there, stunned, and am now drowning my sorrows in ice cream. Sigh….

  179. Oof, Right in the ADA*

    Long time lurker, looking for some advice.

    I’ve been dealing with chronic illness issues for a while, which came to a head last year. I took FMLA to deal with my health, but didn’t get much better in the allotted time. Still, I thought I could return to work with accommodations, which I discussed with my employers. To make a long story short and also not give out too many details, they reacted in a way that I found unethical and borderline illegal and I ended up “choosing” to leave as of February this year. I wrote a formal letter of complaint to their supervisor and was basically rebuffed. I could have chosen to keep pursuing it at that point, but I just didn’t have the energy or emotional strength to deal with that along with my other issues, so I let it drop.

    The salient points here are: it’s on record that I left because of my illness, the terms on which I left are otherwise dubious (I am not using my former boss as a reference), and I’ve been unemployed and living in a different state with my parents since March.

    While I’m not doing *hugely* better at this point, I think I’m up to getting back to work part-time, and I surprisingly got a very speedy response to an application I put in this week and now have an interview on Tuesday. Because of what happened with my illness at my last job, I’m *very* leery of disclosing my illness in the interview, but I’m not sure what else to say if asked why I left, why I moved, and/or why I’ve been unemployed for nine months. There were legitimate problems with the job that would have driven me out eventually that I could cite, but that wouldn’t explain the move/unemployment; someone suggested I cite family issues, which also do exist, but I’m nervous of that. Even if I’m not using my old boss as a reference, couldn’t the new company easily find out what happened if they call to verify my former employment?

    tl;dr: I got burned by crappy disability policy at my last job and I’m scared to disclose my illness if it comes up, but I’m also afraid of getting easily caught in a lie.

    1. Colette*

      “I was dealing with some health issues”. Ideally you’d want to be able to say they are resolved, but I think you can say that part time work is a better fit for you.

  180. job searcher #543652*

    Hi, I’m hoping for some job search advice. Would it would be good to include the fact that my current position is being taken over by two people, and if so is it better to include as a short bullet point in my resume or with a couple sentences in my cover letter?

    1. Colette*

      I think you’d be better off to list the accomplishments without comment. You could maynpbe casually mention it in an interview if the conversation flows that way, but I’d leave it off your resume.

  181. Red Reader*

    Fnargh. This is the last week of my second-to-last semester of grad school.

    **redacts a couple paragraphs of overly-identifiable school frustration**

    Why, for the love of whiskey and cheese, is there always at least one completely useless – literally not contributing so much as an IDEA OR CONCEPT, let alone any actual work – group member sucking up the energy, in EVERY SINGLE GROUP to which I am assigned. Ever.

    Second question: Why for the love of god would you assign a group project and then not actually have any way for the group members to evaluate each other.

    1. AnonAndOn*

      I feel your pain. I dislike group projects. There’s always someone who slacks off or someone who tries to steal the show.

    2. Horizons*

      Sadly, IME, committee work is similar in real life. (I’m in higher ed, the Land of Committees.) It’s often slow and painful work, and the biggest showboats do the least work. Best of all, in 80% of cases, my committees’ work is publicly lauded and then never implemented.

  182. wantToBeEthical*

    I’m one of many people who are being laid off, and our HR said we could get a job with a competitor when I asked. I’ll be talking to a competitor soon and am trying to get a good feel for what I should and shouldn’t say. Concerned about ethics – don’t want to divulge too much about my current company.

    1. Colette*

      I think you can talk about the company in general, but no specifics about the work or direction. So “I work in teapot QA and developed a new process for testing spout quality” is fine, but “company is abandoning chocolate teapots and moving into the caramel teapot market” would only be ok if that is public knowledge.

  183. so very anonymous*

    I had to fire someone today. It was a long time coming; I had given him numerous opportunities to improve, clearly communicated expectations, and had warned him that unless I saw improvement we would have to let him go. So I know I’ve covered all my bases, but it still feels really awful. No advice needed, I just wanted to share that I feel like a horrible person.

    2. Drama Llama*

      I hear you. The first time I terminated someone’s employment I felt awful that whole day. Even if it was justified and came after lots of warning and coaching.

      As with most other things in life it does get more bearable with experience. The reality is that sometimes firing is necessary for the health of the business and everyone else in it. As long as you do it respectfully and fairly you have nothing to feel horrible about. It would be much worse to allow someone to struggle through work they are incapable of; or let a toxic person cause hardship for everyone else.

    3. Observer*

      You’re not a horrible person. But, it’s good that you don’t feel good about it. The day that firing stops feeling really bad is the day you become a really bad boss.

      The bad feeling is a signal to make sure that you really need to do this, and to do what you can to avoid the problem. And it actually may help you be a better manager. After all, which is worse? An uncomfortable conversation that helps someone get their job back on track or firing that person because things just got too bad to salvage.

      I do sympathize, though. It still stinks.

  184. Lady Dedlock*

    Ugh, you guys, I just have to vent. I went out with coworkers for happy hour tonight, and later, at dinner, the conversation turned personal. I’m the only person in my office without an advanced degree (seriously), and somehow that became the topic of conversation, and everyone was like, “Oh, no, no one thinks any less of you because of that. I was talking to Fergus about it, and he said he couldn’t believe you would ever feel inferior because of that, because everyone respects you so much.”

    I just felt really condescended to, and upset, and I started crying. I felt really attacked for even feeling the way I feel. Why should I have to explain why being the least credentialed makes me feel left behind in life? (How is that so hard to understand, seriously? I work in academia. It may not be an issue elsewhere, but it’s an issue where I am.) And everyone saying “Just go after what you want”–doesn’t anybody realize it’s not that easy?

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Sometimes really smart people can be so clueless.
      I don’t think they meant to upset you or be mean, but really this was so rude and condescending.

  185. Greyhound*

    I’m looking for work shoes and having a terrible time. I was wondering if anyone can recommend a brand or designer?

    This is what I want:
    -Priced between $300 – $600.
    -Preferably made in Italy, Spain, UK or similar. And, of course, well made and likely to last for a long time.
    -Low kitten heels without any weird crap or gimmicks (fashionable or not). All I want is solid colors like black, navy, brown and maybe some more fun but still work appropriate shades in green, red, blue etc. I want the outside of the shoe to be one color only. I don’t want anything like bows, ruffles, dots, frills, ‘decorations’ or anything other than just a plain, well made, minimalist shoe. I also don’t want weirdness with the heels like a block heel or one of those sculptural heels with bits missing. I just want the classic stiletto heel but not very high.
    -Not suede. I like the look of suede but it’s too hard to maintain the shoes and I want shoes I can wear when it’s raining. I’d also prefer matte to patent leather.

    I just can’t find anything that fits this criteria. Everything is either covered with weird crap or plain but with a gigantic block heel or really cheap or too expensive or has a super high stiletto heel that’s just too impractical for me.

    Next year I’ll be starting a new job that requires formal, corporate, conservative work clothes. Since my current job has a completely casual dress code, this means I need to invest in a new work wardrobe and I’m trying to start with some quality accessories.

      1. Greyhound*

        Thanks Ismis. The thought briefly crossed my mind but I assumed it’d be too expensive. I’ll have a look for places in my area and see.

      1. Greyhound*

        If I can afford it, it’s a very high priority for me to not buy things I’ll throw away quickly or things that were made in places with a questionable approach to the rights, safety and wages of workers and the impacts of manufacturing on the environment.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Christian Louboutin seems to be some of the more sought after work pumps in that price range.
      I can’t say though if the price = the comfort, or if price = “best” you know.

      If you’re looking for something classic at a somewhat lower price point ($200), I’d suggest Cole Haan. Very classic, well-constructed plain styles in a variety of toe styles and heel types and heights. You could buy yourself 3-4 pairs if you catch a sale. I can speak to these, as I have a pair of low heel basic black pumps that have lasted quite a while.

      Of course, it’s really about what fits you best. I can’t afford Louboutins myself and I’ve always wondered if the more expensive shoes are worth it. Do let us know!

    4. Fortitude Jones*

      Get a pair of Manolo Blahnik kitten heels. I have a pair of MB ankle strap pumps that have a slightly higher heel, but they are the most comfortable heels I’ve ever worn (I have a pair of Cole Haan ankle boot heels that are a close second). They’re also five years old and still look brand new according to my former coworkers (I got them on consignment for $119 when they retailed for $595).

  186. LinkedIn & Resume Headline Question*

    Hi,

    I have a question about what headlines to use for my LinkedIn profile and for my resume. I heard that it might be helpful to create a headline that can capture a recruiter’s attention or can come up in search results better, as opposed to a default headline that just list what your current job title is at your current job.

    I am currently a Level 1 Accountant who is dealing with many types of different transactions. However, I wanted to start my find a job that only focuses on revenue. I can take a job that is a revenue accountant position, revenue coordinator, revenue specialist, etc.

    In my LinkedIn Headline and in the headline for my resume summary, will it be okay if I put something like “Revenue Professional”?

    I wanted a headline that can help me in recruiter search results more, but I don’t want to mislead the hiring managers either. I don’t want them to misunderstood me for being a revenue accountant and found out I am just a level 1 accountant.

    So what should my headline be like?

    How should I tailor my headline in case I need to pursue jobs other than those exclusively for revenue management?

    1. Product person*

      LinkedIn & Resume Headline Question:

      You don’t need the keyword you want recruiters to find you by to be in your headline. Make sure “revenue” appears on your Summary section, as well as is mentioned in your current and past jobs as applicable. This will make you appear on search results. I’d keep the word accountant in your headline because “Revenue Professional” can actually be a detraction since “professional” is weaker than “accountant”. But it does make sense to have the word “revenue” in your profile as much as possible to help recruiters looking for “revenue accountants” see your name on their search results.

      1. LinkedIn & Resume Headline Question*

        Thank you for your advice, Product Person.

        So would it be okay to leave my LinkedIn headline as just Level 1 Accountant at CurrentJob and leave the title of my resume summary to just be “Summary”?

        Revenue Accountant is a step-up from my Level 1 Accountant position.

        Thanks

        1. Product person*

          LinkedIn & Resume Headline Question:

          You don’t need to necessarily leave “Level 1 Accountant” — you can say accountant or something more descriptive of your current job. For example, in the past, I had the title of “Consultant V” in my full time job, but was doing product management, so I listed Product Manager in my headline.

          And while I had “Product Manager” listed there, I got lots of contacts from recruiters looking for a Director, Product Management role. If you have the right keywords somewhere in your profile (in your case, it looks like Revenue is the important one), recruiters looking for a Revenue Accountant even if you don’t have this specific title listed. Good luck!

          1. Product person*

            *recruiters looking for a Revenue Accountant will find you even if you don’t have this specific title listed.

  187. user318124*

    What do you do to switch between topics quickly?

    I work full-time and still have a M.A. thesis to write in the evening/ on the weekends. I wouldn’t find the thesis difficult to accomplish if I didn’t need to work. But I just can’t stop thinking about work (new job…) and start thinking about research after I get back home during the week and on the weekends. In the past I always needed 2-3 days to get really to work on a thesis: the first day was to procrastinate, read around a bit. The second day I started writing and the third day I was able to focus on the writing entirely.

    Now I won’t have so much time. Due to time constrains I need to be able to spend whole weekends writing.

    Ideas how to do that?

    (I can’t take paid or unpaid vacation).

    1. Jennie*

      I drink different beverages during different types of work. Maybe try only drinking coffee or black tea at work and some herbal fruity tea while you work on your thesis?

      1. JaneB*

        At the end of every writing session take a bit of time to write down the next step tasks – that could be bullet points of the next section for you to flesh out, figures to check, a table to make etc etc – things that will make reentry easier. Then you aren’t trying to do this big thing, of getting into thesis writing mode, you just start with a smaller task…

        Once you get closer we to the end, would it be possible to go somewhere different to write? A cheap hotel room can be good, no chores, no distractions….

  188. How to cope wih buzzwords*

    How do you guys cope with excessive buzzwords in the workplace?

    I’ve been pretty lucky so far, but one conference presentation I went to a while back was filled to the brim with trite jargon, and I had to fight with every fiber of my being to keep from rolling my eyes. Not technical jargon, but the kinds of things you’d see on a “Buzzword Bingo” card, or in a really caustic Dilbert cartoon.

    I know that I’m not supposed to tell a colleague that this kind of thing is superficial and useless, and I’ve never actually done that. But I don’t know what I’m supposed to do instead. Or how to make the stupid hurt less.

  189. Really Rosie*

    Can any of you recommend a good office chair? Mine is about 8 years old and the wheels are starting to pop off. It’s also a very large, heavy chair.

    I am a heavier person but I think a comfy but sturdy option must exist.

    Thank you

  190. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

    AUGH. I found out yesterday at work that I’ll find out my fate early this coming week regarding my job. We are being acquired by another company and our whole executive team except one is was let go. One the one hand, I was told by a higher up very pointedly “DON’T LEAVE”, but I also found a job opening at another company where I could basically referral into an interview situation. Which sounds great and like a no-brainer. But…I don’t want to work for this other company necessarily (the industry is not interesting to me AT ALL). The job is what I want to do, just not for that company. So if I apply and get my referral in from a friend/ex-coworker, and then turn it down, I’ve effectively burned that referral bridge. Which I don’t want to do in case it comes to a point in my life where I am more desperately in need of a job, even at this company. So. I wait for my fate at work and if there is a promising slot for me in the new world order given I was told not to leave. Needless to say, time is ticking slowly this weekend. Must. Occupy. Time.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      It’s been my experience that being acquired by another company usually doesn’t go well unless you have a very unique skill set the new company wants to keep (and then you might get a promotion).
      I had to be a DebbieDowner, give it a chance, but I would begin looking.

      2. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

        Agree…I used to work in financial services, when mergers happened left and right. Oddly…I ran into the higher up dude who had told me “DON’T LEAVE” tonight at a hockey game! Hopefully I subtly gave the right vibes of “please retain me for a non-sucky job”.

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