open thread – January 19-20, 2018

by Alison Green on January 19, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. ZSD*

    Last Friday, the Maryland legislature overrode the governor’s veto to make Maryland the ninth state to require employers to provide their employees with paid sick and safe days! If you work in Maryland and don’t yet get paid sick time, you can look forward to getting it soon.

    2. zora*

      Such good news!! I got paid sick days during my last temp job because of the San Francisco city ordinance and it was such a relief. This will make a huge difference in the life of sooooo many people, I hope this trend keeps getting momentum!!

    4. MissMaple*

      Do you happen to know how it works if you already get PTO? Will it be like California where they have to give you separate buckets, or is it worded such that what I already get counts?

      1. ZSD*

        If you already have PTO, your company can keep their system in place as long as you’re allowed to use the PTO for all the purposes of sick and safe time.
        That’s actually true in California as well, but many employers get confused about this. Even the Society of Human Resource Management has misadvised people on this point!

        1. MissMaple*

          Thanks for the clarification! My PTO is available for sick time, so my company likely already complies.

    5. JennyFair*

      Unfortunately this is not always good. Well, it’s not always done kindly by employers. I live in WA, which also requires sick time as of this year, and as a result my company has taken all our PTO away and imposed rules upon ‘sick time’ use, and now we won’t be able to use it for anything not actually medical. So basically I have no personal time :(

      2. periwinkle*

        I agree, that’s terrible. My employer already offered generous sick leave separate from vacation time, so the new Washington law didn’t require any changes. Your employer is run by jerks.

      3. JennyFair*

        Yep, I already knew they were not a company that cares about employees. However, my direct manager is wonderful so I’ve stayed. This policy ties his hands :(

        (I’d like to change jobs but in my geographical area it’s extremely hard to find a living wage job without a Bachelor’s degree or higher. I’m working on the degree but it will be basically forever before I’m done.)

          1. Natalie*

            One of my favorite parts of A Tree Grows In Brooklyn

            “Four years of high school … no, five. Because something would come up to delay me. Then four years of college. I’d be a dried-up old maid of twenty-five before I was finished.”

            “Whether you like it or not, you’ll get to be twenty-five in time no matter what you do. You might as well be getting educated while you’re going towards it.”

    7. Anxa*

      Do you know how this would affect temporary workers at large institutions. I still have a hard time believing that I can wake up one morning with a stuffed up nose and just stay home. Seems surreal. Like being back in school!

      Ah, to be a kid again!

  2. the.kat*

    On Monday, I’m turning in my two-weeks notice. I know the next two weeks are going to be really hard. I’m going to have a lot to finish and I’m going to need to somehow compile my fours years of experience here into some kind of list so things don’t fall between the cracks. For AAMers who’ve changed jobs, how did you finish up? What were your last two weeks like and how did your “this is my job” and “these things need to be done” lists come together? Also, how do I deal with leaving a job I really love to take on another new, greater challenge?

    1. CherryScary*

      Following, because I just gave my two weeks this morning. Sounds like we’re in the same boat. I have issues with the company at large, but I really love my team and want to leave them in a good spot.

    2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      When I left my last job (was there for 7 years), I started a spreadsheet in which I first listed my areas of responsibility at a high level. Then I started drilling down into each area with specific tasks. I didn’t get too detailed – that would have been a nightmare to document and read – but I did try to cover all the major things I was responsible for on a regular basis. I then did some training with coworkers who were going to take over certain tasks until the role could be filled. I also compiled all the documentation I’d collected over the years, and any user guides I developed.

      I was a business intelligence analyst, and I left a department that had several of them, so I didn’t really have to get too specific with my documentation since they all knew basic, every day BI analyst tasks, but I did want to make sure my responsibilities were covered.

      As for your second question…I can’t answer that as I did not love the job. :) I guess just allow yourself to feel sad for what you are leaving, and then look forward to learning new things.

      1. my two cents*

        Was at OldJob for 8 years, and followed a similar ‘download’ process.

        But…importantly…be sure to first scrub your own computer or company phone of any personal files/pictures/contact info that you need to save!!

        Also, I found it helpful that BEFORE giving my notice, I had prepped a list of ‘open’ or on-going activities. There is always a chance that they will simply ask that it be your last day, and having that list as well as having scrubbed your computer/phone would have been a necessary bare minimum. The week prior to giving official notice, I had even started slowly taking home random stashes of things like food/tea/office toys/decor that I had built up over the years.

        But yeah, write out your high-level activities. Drill that down to specifics. List any and all supporting documentation, maybe docs that you’ve created for yourself, and their location on the server.

        Detail any leftover hardware/kits/tools/company property that are not yours to take home, and detail where they can be located.

        1. my two cents*

          On a personal level, my last 3 weeks during my notice was a lot of shared eye-rolling with my direct manager. She knew I was making about 40% less than the other engineers, but not being technical herself she wasn;t ever really sure how to support me specifically. Our ‘customer support’ team, 4 women – purchasing, manufacturing/testing, customer support (me!), and our general ‘operations manager’, carried a majority of the daily workload ‘weight’. We were an awesome and nimble team, and we never hesitated helping one another out. Production needs help testing boards? Okie dokie – I’ll hop in the back warehouse with her, and we’ll program and test some stuff!

          We also had 9 other people in the office with us – 6 staff/dev engineers, 1 QA guy, their ‘direct’ manager, and our site’s ‘general manager’…but the staff engineers took full-advantage of the lack of technical prowess of the management team, often inflating timelines and over-complicating designs.
          Op Manager – “MyTwoCents…where is the data sheet at?”
          me – “oh, you know…LL says they’re still working on the pin-out diagram.”

          Op Manager – “Okie dokie, will jot that down. So, where’s the at?”
          me – “well, had called a design review for it, and claims that it will take 4 weeks before they can schedule the work…because they’re so…busy….”

          I loved that job. I loved everything I did, and I really cared deeply about the customers, our products, and my ‘customer service’ team. The direct engineering manager and the general manager could have cared less if I stayed, and I think they felt my ‘support’ role didn’t quite align with our location being a ‘development center’, and they had never planned on replacing me.

          After I had left, the company ended up merging with another large competitor. About 2 months after the merger, they deemed that location redundant and it was completely closed another 6 months later.

    3. Future Analyst*

      Don’t try to compile 4 years of knowledge into 2 weeks! :) It’ll drive you crazy, and the list will never fully be complete. What you can do: wrap up outstanding projects (and really, that might mean handing them off to others with proper instructions, since you may not have time to actually finish all the work), document the need-to-know items, and clear out your desk. In my experience, all of that alone will take the two weeks (YMMV), but it’s important not to try and cram 160 hours of work into two weeks. You certainly don’t want to leave people hanging, but it’ll be okay to hand things off. Congrats on the new gig!

      1. Adlib*

        This! Do what you can. Enjoy the last weeks there and maybe spend time outside the office with your team to properly thank them and say your goodbyes. (YMMV if this isn’t something that appeals to you. Definitely try to stay in touch!)

    4. Jimbo*

      I always made sure to create a procedures manual or “how to” guide for doing my old job. This includes step by step procedures for technical, multi-step tasks, usernames and passwords to important accounts, a guide to finding important files and folders in the intranet or in the shared files folder. I printed out a copy and collected the info in a binder and also put an electronic copy in a thumb drive. I gave both to my boss about a week prior to leaving. And if the boss needed me to go through the files or the documentation I also gave him/her a run through to make sure they can locate things or understand the manual.

      1. Boop*

        Exactly. I learned my first job by having someone sit there and teach me. That process was not efficient, and definitely not the best method, so within a few months I had started my first process manual. Now it’s standard practice on my team to have a binder with processes and instructions (and screenshots! Boss loves screenshots).

    5. theletter*

      I had to do the two week wrap up about a year and half ago. What worked best for me was setting up knowledge transfer sessions for my peer teammates using overly-detailed powerpoint presentations and telling them that anything moving forward was really up to them – I only had suggestions. The components were projects, teammates, and processes. The knowledge sessions allowed my teammates to ask the questions they needed. In my case, there were some misconceptions that a certain project was a lot bigger than it was, so I think I spent a lot of time explaining that.

      I also had a major deadline on my last day, and I worked right up to it, got it done, and then I clocked out and said ‘not my monkeys, not my circus’.

      I had loved the job and the people I worked with, but I had some problems with the leadership and we were missing a management level. After a meeting with the CTO, I got a sense that management wasn’t sure how my team really fit in with the rest of the department. I think he was trying to say “shape up or ship out” but it came off as “your team is basically expendable as far as I can tell.” I hadn’t had a whole lot of professional growth in the past two years, and my team wasn’t listening to my suggestions on how we could improve, so I was spending a lot of time cleaning up after them instead of improving myself. It was tough, but I realized I just had to move on.

      I don’t have a lot of buddies at my new job, but the work is more aligned to how I prefer to do teapot design, and I get to do far more technical work with access to a better set of tools and a quickly path to title upgrades. Plus I’m paid a lot more.

      Sadly, the old company was bought out (it was announced about a minute after I sent off the written offer acceptance for the new job). The new overlords are slowly choking the company to death, from what I hear, and my team never improved. The ‘great project’ that was always trying to get assigned to has essentially been sidelined, and the department is basically just bouncing from fire to fire. A lot of people are leaving or have left. I’m still in touch with my friends and we hang out often – and it’s nice to be able to talk openly about things since I no longer work with them.

      So, long story short: you’re leaving because something has changed, or something needs to change. In a year, the old company won’t be the same as it was, and neither will you. This time machine only moves forward.

    6. Sara*

      I left a job a couple years ago and wrote out an entire manual because they were hiring a temp to cover while they searched for a permanent replacement. It took the whole two weeks of me writing step by step instructions while doing processes.
      The temp took the manual home and then quit suddenly. And I went out of the country on vacation and was completely unreachable. But they figured it out in the long run (though I shot them a few emails when I came back). So I’m sure whatever you do will be great for them!

    7. Linzava*

      Don’t forget to remove any personal emails if you have any, I always end up taking over people’s emails to monitor and search for previous work. I once found and email thread of someone talking trash about me to her husband. No recommendations from me! Also, clean your desktop of anything personal and empty your recycle bin. Forward any important emails to your personal email, anything that you may need later.

      I make a list of personal items on and in my desk. On my last day, just check off everything as I pack it.

      I usually take the time to add up my vacation and what will be owed on my last paycheck. When they hand you your paycheck, you can alert them to any corrections then and there instead of the award phone call later.

    8. Tara*

      Also, make sure you save copies of your work for yourself of anything you might want as reference later. (Writing samples that can be viewed externally, tips on certain processes you may need later, that email that’s just hilarious and must be preserved for later amusement.)

    9. CM*

      Yes, do all the transition stuff — but when I left a job I loved, I also took the time to go to as many people as possible that I worked with closely, talk to them one-on-one, in some cases write them cards or leave them a little parting gift (like a gift-wrapped box of mints for the person who would always raid my candy bowl for them). It really helped me maintain relationships after I left. And it was funny to hear all the secrets that people were willing to tell me once they knew I was leaving! (“I’m interviewing too!” “I’m pregnant!” “Wakeen and Fergus are having an affair and I’ve been dying to tell someone!”)

    10. Bend & Snap*

      I actually turned in a transition plan with my letter of resignation, because I was leading 2 teams and 12 clients that needed homes.

      They accepted my whole proposal and the team that took 3 years to build took 2 days to dismantle. But it helped me leave on a good note.

    11. Turquoisecow*

      If it’s possible for your role, try to give at least one person a quick, in person crash course on the more complex or important task(s) that you do. If you can come up with or have actual paper documentation, that is of course wonderful and I highly recommend that*, but sometimes people learn by doing, or find it hard to learn from a written document. Having at least one person who can help your replacement figure out what you did will be super important.

      *The last few jobs I’ve worked at, there was virtually no documentation on how to do my job as well as many other jobs. You learned from your predecessor if you were lucky, or you learned from others who did similar work (but not the same). My current boss is very big on documenting the crap out of processes as we work on moving to a new software system – the current one has no instruction manual anywhere so if certain people leave or are unavailable you are literally unable to do their job. However, that’s a lot of work for two weeks!

    12. It's Business Time*

      I handed in my notice earlier this week and am currently working on a document on everything I do (I am using MS OneNote, to input everything, as I can drag and drop emails, s/sheets & word docs into it) . I have split it into different booklets (with separate tabs for the sub sections) for each type of area I work on and have instructions how to do each bit. I have a FAQ section that I have answers to the questions that people have emailed me over the years as a reference to whomever the replacement would be.

      I made sure I cleaned up all of my emails, my personal files on the computer etc and removed the history of the internet browsing and removed all saved passwords. All my personal items on my desk have already been removed and I have cleaned out all of the drawers etc.

    13. growth from challenge*

      I FEEL LIKE I WROTE THIS!!! The Kat, can we be instant friends?? Ha. I accepted a new job yesterday that is super exciting in a lot of ways, and will be a good challenge and new learning experience for me, but I’ve been at my current job for four years, it’s also great, and my boss loves me and I’m dreading telling him – plus my to-do list is SO long to try and make the transition as easy as possible for them.

      1. the.kat*

        Yes, I’m definitely up for being instant friends. It feels really good to read all of these and know I’m not the only one in this boat. I’m so dreading telling my boss but I HAVE to. It’s only fair.

        We’re going to make it. That’s what I keep telling myself.

        1. Linzava*

          I do have a little trick that helps when I’m trying to get up the courage to tell my boss I’m leaving. I take a notepad and write out all the reasons it’s important for me to leave. If it’s a toxic place, I write down the negative things I’m leaving behind. It really helps. Once you’re psyched up, take a breath, do it, and it’s over before you know it.

      2. growth from challenge*

        Agreed. Absolutely. And it’s scary (change is always scary), but we WILL make it. I keep telling myself that whole thing about growth comes from challenge, not from staying in your comfort zone. Thanks for the positive words and making me feel like I’m not alone! What was it that made you decide to leave?

        1. the.kat*

          Oddly enough, it was just time to go. I know that sounds like a cop-out answer, but it’s time to do something else. My new offer is great and it lets me learn to specialize.

    14. Kristin*

      I gave my notice and wasn’t allowed to tell my staff I was leaving. I spent the last few weeks really pushing new skills on them. I wrote up a list of contact information, logins, and procedures. I made sure employee files were up to date, looped upper management into anything that was going on, and thoroughly cleaned my office. I hate coming into a new place that’s got someone else’s used staples and dust!

    15. Piano Girl*

      I was laid off last year, with a two week notice. I had really loved the job, but the last year or so had become hard – the 1% raise had been a real sucker punch, coupled with a denial of a promotion request and an office remodel that excluded my tiny office. I had been considering looking for a new position, in spite of an anticipated move out of the state, so I had already started cleaning out my office and catching up my notes.
      My main project was transitioned over to the employee that I worked on it with. I put together a proposed separation of my duties and presented it to my boss, who was not happy that I was being laid off. She re-assigned some of my work but didn’t act on most of it. I had three big projects to finish off. Somehow I completed all three and handed them off to my managers for review.
      Looking back, I realize that I treated my employer much better than they ever treated me, and they knew it. I stopped by a couple of times to tie up loose ends, and enjoyed one last lunch out with my department after the busy season ended. After that, I turned my attention to new challenges in my life and moved forward. I have limited contact with some of my co-workers (primarily through Facebook) which has helped.
      Good luck with your transition!

    16. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      “I’m going to need to somehow compile my fours years of experience here into some kind of list so things don’t fall between the cracks. ”
      Accept that things will fall between the cracks. Accept that things you did may never be done by the next person. Accept that you are doing the best you can. And when you get to that point, go to your job description (if you have one, if not, make a list) and pull out the most important tasks you do. Focus on the procedures. Are they up to date and correct? Move on. Do not anticipate every contingency.
      When you finish the big, move to secondary. Repeat above steps.
      You didn’t have answers at your fingertips for every possible iteration of a workday when you started. You did fine. Make it easier for the next person, but be realistic. Brutally realistic. What can you do? What can’t you do?
      Think about what you expect to walk into on next job. What you want and what you reasonably can expect. Use that as a guide.

    17. rubyrose*

      A lot of wonderful ideas and approaches in the comments. What I would like to point out is that you should give your manager a very high level list up front, like on Monday or Tuesday, which shows an item and to whom you think it should go to. Put those items in most important to least important order. Phrase this in such a way that this is how you are going to proceed unless told otherwise. So if the day before you leave your manager is expressing displeasure over what you have done, you can point to the document (attached to an email) and point out that since you got no response, you proceeded as planned.

      1. Hey Karma, Over here.*

        Definitely this! You might find that your manager has different ideas about priorities.

    18. DaniCalifornia*

      My coworker bff just left and I use OneNote extensively for all my notes. She lovingly put all her processes and email templates and notes she had written over the years into that for me. It’s nice because you can just search for a word and her notes pop up. Perhaps you could do that.

      Since I am job searching I’ve been putting in more of my own notes on things like:
      -notes about my specific clients and how their bookkeeping is done
      -daily things/weekly things/monthly things/quarterly things/once a year things (tax season prep is a beast and it’s hard to get into the groove when you don’t remember last year)
      -specific processes that only I do (my supervisor has an overall knowledge but hasn’t done these things in years) I want to leave them with decent instructions bc even though I should train someone in my role for 2-4 weeks my company won’t do that.
      -unfinished items on longer projects, what step I’m at, who are my contacts for that
      -passwords, log ins, website, all of my how to links that I’ve looked up for other people (bookmarked in a browser) that I am continually asked (I am pre-IT, if I can’t fix it then we call IT)

      1. Moonbeam Malone*

        This is very similar to how I approach this. (I mostly keep track of this stuff in Word docs though,which can admittedly get unweildy – do whatever works for you!) I like to keep a manual for my own reference as well, to be honest. When I was working on my manual at my current job I actually started a new document called “training outline” just to get an organized idea of what a new employee might need/want to know about the position. Get the abstract down before worrying about details – that way you can look at it and prioritize the things only you know over the things they can find out from someone else. I also like to make note of who in the organization can be contacted with questions on a particular project when it’s relevant. If I’m including information that falls out-of-date quickly I like to leave a note like “(as of 1/19/2018)” so you can get an immediate sense of whether the info is still current/accurate. On top of a procedural manual I also keep a list of frequent and infrequent contacts. How relevant that is depends on your position, but I have vendors and contractors I need to keep track of and I want to make sure that info’s all in one place for anyone covering this position for me or replacing me.

    19. H.C.*

      For me it was really business as usual until the last 2 days, when I updated my immediate supervisor and colleagues on outstanding work projects – as well as informing my usual business contacts that “X is my last day, it’s a pleasure working with you, for future inquiries about Y – please contact our office / my manager at ….”

    20. Ghost Town*

      I gave 3 weeks notice to my previous position in late April. I had been there just shy of 8 years and the position had done a lot of shifting in that time. I was also lucky in that a previous predecessor had written out a fairly comprehensive guide which each subsequent position holder updated. This was something I had taken to updating, at least to some extent, on a regular basis and then with some gusto as my own job search picked up steam.
      In my notice period, I did a lot of fine tuning of the guide, including adding in sections that were missing; thinking through the academic year and what tasks were done regularly but infrequently; creating process and contacts cheat sheets; divesting myself of account access; using issues that popped up as learning opportunities for the rest of my office; and so on.
      For pretty much anything that needed to be done in the short-term, the task was assigned to someone else in the office. As an office, an effort was made to think through larger-scale tasks I had done that would come up during a slightly longer-term (because even at the staff level, academic hiring takes forever) and those were also gamed out.

    21. Penguin Lifting Heavy Things*

      So today is my last day at a job that was mostly pretty good, but I’ve realized that there is little/no opportunity for growth or advancement (its a decent-sized nonprofit, but people either stay for a short time or forever) and I would basically be doing the same thing year after year after year. I liked the people I worked with though, so I’m still sad.

      Our department has been going through a major upheaval – I’m the fourth person out of seven leaving in like 2 months, so my boss has been scrambling. My last two weeks were basically me trying to shove as many design/computer tasks as I can into it (I’m under 30, so I’m the computer and design person), while also making excruciating instructions on things like Google Drive (not where things are located in Google Drive, but how to use it. I’m not kidding.).

      I just keep focusing on what I’m going to get at my new job – plenty of opportunities for growth and learning, killer vacation time, espresso machine … while still trying to appreciate everything I learned and did here (took some design courses, met interesting people in the community). Just remember there is a reason you are changing jobs. Congratulations and good luck!

    22. SleeplessInLA*

      I’ve changed jobs every 3-4 years since entering the work force so have plenty of experience here LOL. What has worked best for me is:

      1. Save ALL relevant past work that you may want to use in a portfolio or just keep for the future and send to your personal email for safekeeping. (I usually do this before putting in my 2 weeks notice b/c some companies quickly shut off Outlook or security access when they know you’re leaving.)

      #2. Write up a quick outline of your daily tasks from the time you turn on your computer monitor until you wrap up your EOD.

      #3. Create a cheat sheet from #2. Is there a specific login you need to access certain programs? Location of specific files on your hard drive or company Intranet? Any points of contact who help with X? etc.

      #4. Create a separate doc and list all projects you’re currently working on whether they’re upcoming or in progress and include a status update for the person who takes them over. Email #3 and #4 to your boss for them to pass along to your replacement.

      #5. If applicable, email all outside clients you’re working with to advise them of you departure and cc: their new point of contact.

      #6. Save any important phone #s or email addresses of friends and colleagues so you can keep in touch.

      #7. Gradually start taking personal items home and make your rounds saying goodbye.

      #8. Draft an Out of Office reply in the event your email stays active after your last day with a msg stating you’re no longer with the company.

      Lastly, don’t worry if things fall through the cracks! Do what you can to help your team but recognize this is no longer your job and the company will survive without you. Good luck!

  3. Kramerica Industries*

    My coworker will be moving to a new position within our small (8 people) team. Currently, we have similar job functions and are at the same level. The other day, he told me that we should set up time so he can train me on his tasks. When I suggested that we should wait for our manager’s direction, in case she wants to wait to bring in someone new for him to train, he said “Well then [the tasks] are going to fall off because I’m not doing it.” Again, I tried to nicely push back to say that all jobs have a bit of awkward transition time, but he said “it’s going to be your problem though because I’m not doing it.”

    Where I’m stuck is that I do believe he would do the tasks if our manager asked him to continue while he’s in his new role, so I’m not sure if this is actually going to affect my work. But I feel like his attitude was super dismissive and not team-oriented. I’ve already spoken to our manager before about his tendancy to pass tasks onto me that he doesn’t want to do (she was onside and asked him to stop), so I’m wondering if this interaction is enough to bring up to my manager. FWIW, I’m 5 years younger and female, so I’m starting to feel like he’s trying to power his way up to treating me like his underling. What are your thoughts? Is this bad attitude enough to raise to my manager, considering we’ve had a history of him treating me rather lowly?

    1. Soupmonger*

      Oooh, go straight to your manager and ask her what her plans are for this guys replacement. I’d tell her what he said about not doing tasks, because that’s enough of a crappy attitude that your manager should be aware. Ugh, what a creep.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      You absolutely need to bring it up to your manager. Not necessarily the attitude part, but it’s completely reasonable that your manager would be the one to dictate who is taking on what tasks.

    3. Laura*

      I’d bring it up. Not necessarily as a “he’s overstepping” kind of thing. But as a “Jojo says all his work will now be mine and he needs to train me on this. I wanted to get direction.” Then you can raise concerns about workload, etc.

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      Yes, tell your boss, but make it about you proactively bringing up a work issue that will need to be resolved (because, unless his current tasks are phased out, someone *will* need to pick them up, either you or someone else) rather than complaining about your coworker. I’d say something like “Fergus has approached me about picking up tasks X, Y, and Z once he transitions to his new role. I just wanted to see whether that’s what you have in mind going forward, or if there’s a different plan in place.”

      Hopefully your manager DOES have a plan — if not, this had better jog her into coming up with one — and will realize that she needs to say what that plan is to Fergus and anyone who will be assuming his tasks going forward. It will also alert her to rogue Fergus trying to do her job for her, which hopefully she will step on.

    6. Anony*

      Aak your manager if your three can set up time to come up with a transition plan so that you are all clear on what tasks you will be taking on and what tasks he will be keeping until a replacement is brought in. You don’t need to frame it as him pushing more work on you. If you feel uncomfortable meeting together, you could ask to meet with your manager, just the two of you, to discuss how his promotion will impact your workload. Then you will know how much you can push back against his training you to take over his tasks.

    7. Alice*

      I wish I was less team-oriented…. Although there’s plenty of space between “not too team-oriented” and “dismissive jerk,” which is where you co-worker seems to slot in. My take is — it’s smart for him to want to plan who will take over the tasks associated with his old position, but he should be having that conversation with your manager, not going straight to you. Maybe a good tack is to go to your manager, not about his attitude, but about whether she wants you to take on these tasks.

    8. Kramerica Industries*

      Just for clarity, I’ve already sat down with my manager and she’s aware that we still need to come up with a solid plan.

      I think I’m wondering more about whether to raise his bad attitude since this seems to be a bit of a pattern that myself and other coworkers have raised before.

      1. CM*

        As Laura suggests above (“Jojo says all his work will now be mine and he needs to train me on this. I wanted to get direction”), I’d just state the facts rather than implying he has a bad attitude. You could add something like, “…because when I talked about his transition, he said that he wouldn’t be doing any of his current tasks once he starts the new position” if you want to really drive it home.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Rather than making the general statement of having a bad attitude, why not just repeat what he said about this specific situation. “Bob said the tasks will fall behind because he refuses to do the tasks.”

        Don’t cover for people. If someone says, “I ain’t doing this fn task” tell the boss word for word. “Boss, I was wondering if you wanted me or someone else to take over Task(s). Bob said point blank, ‘I ain’t doing this fn task.’ I am concerned here.”

        Conversely, feel free to say, “I have to check with the boss on that”,any time someone tries to pawn work off on you. I don’t mean someone who actually needs help and I don’t mean the people who are asking for a once in a life time bail out. I am talking about known slackers. Just tell them, “Let me check with the boss to see what her priority is for me.” More than half the time, the known slacker will go ask someone else instead.

      3. Luna*

        I agree with the other commenters, this isn’t about his attitude so much (though he does sound like a jerk), but more about the fact that he appears to be undermining your boss- she says a plan is still in the works, and he is going behind her back and trying to get you to do his own plan instead.

        I would say something like ” we spoke before about coming up with a plan- Fergus told me the other day that the plan is for me to take over all his work and he is starting to train me on that. I want to confirm with you first that this is the plan that has been decided on.”

        1. Thlayli*

          It’s not that a plan is “still in the works” it’s that she hasn’t come up with a plan at all yet. Which he presumably is also aware of – there’s no reason to assume he hasnt asked manager what to do and been given the same response OP got – “I don’t have a plan yet”.

          He’s being a jerk about it, but if you ignore the way he said it and listen to what he’s actually saying, he’s simply pointing out that he isn’t going to continue doing his old job after the transfer, so he’s saying I can either do a handover on these tasks now or they won’t get done after I leave. Which isn’t an unreasonable request, however unreasonably it was phrased.

          Of course OP you have the right to refuse unless you manager tells you to accept the handover, but he presumably doesn’t have to continue doing them unless his new manager explicitly makes them part of his new role. So unless your manager can convince his manager to make them part of his new role, they just won’t get done and won’t be handed over.

          It sounds like your manager is the real jerk by failing to come up with a handover plan. Seen this a million times; someone leaves, doesn’t do a proper handover, and the next person has to figure it out from scratch. It’s much easier to do a handover now, then that person does a handover to the new person, than to have no handover at all.

          OP give some serious consideration to what will happen if he and his new manager refuse to continue having him do his old job. Will your manager then tell you to do it while she searches for a replacement? If so you will then have to go to him asking for a handover to which he will reply “I offered to teach you to do this weeks ago; you refused; now I’m too busy with my new role”. You’ll have to either figure it out from scratch or else you’ll be in the position of having to beg for the handover you are now refusing.

          Tell your manager your concerns and tell her she needs to come up with a plan for handover asap.

    9. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      You’ve seen him do it before. Trust your eyes and ears. He is pushing work he doesn’t want to do onto you. He is telling you to leave out your manager. He is telling you that he is not going to do it. He is implying that you will get stuck with it anyway, because “it just won’t get done.”*
      Well, that’s not for him to decide. That’s for the manager. Let the manager know what he told you and handle it from there.

      *hell yes, this is a power play. Like you are going to feel bad, worried, guilty that work isn’t getting done and you’ll just pick up the slack.

    10. Jam Today*

      His attitude is probably from lessons hard-learned, I’d leave that part alone. The fact is, it *won’t* be his job, and there is no reason why anyone should expect to keep doing his old job at he same time he’s doing his new job (unless they pay him for both jobs.) I have no idea what his timeframe is, but if he’s moving to a new position in a matter of a few weeks, and they still haven’t interviewed anyone to replace him… its going to be your job.

      TBH, I really admire his dedication to drawing boundaries and keeping them.

  4. Sunflower*

    I’m wondering what ya’ll would do in my situation. I’ve mentioned my desire to move to NYC from Philly and how I frequently travel to NYC for work. Now that I’m starting to get requests for in person interviews, I’ve found myself in a bit of conundrum. Ideally, I’d get myself to NYC(on my tab), work out of the NY office and take PTO/make up my time for my interviews. However, this would be pretty hard to do without my boss having suspicions to what’s going on. My boss is relatively new and I get the vibe she is a bit of a butt in the seat manager. I could just take days off but eventually they will run out. Plus we’re busy at work and I don’t have the capacity to take whole days off.

    My grandboss knows I’m not thrilled with work, she knows I have interest in moving to NYC but the firm doesn’t want to pay the higher salary. At this point, it seems to make the most sense to let her know that moving there has become a priority and asking if I can work out of the NY office more frequently. I’m nervous she may flat out ask me if I’m job searching- which I think would be her gauging my unhappiness as opposed to trying to get me out the door. I’m tempted to say ‘yes’ because obviously it would be great if they could be accommodating. But of course I’m terrified it could end up backfiring on me.

    I’m leaning towards being honest with my grandboss on my plans. What would you do? Is there an option I might be missing here that might work for me?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I feel like the fact that you are relocating to a different city makes the whole “yes, I’m looking for another job” thing less… potentially problematic. I could be wrong though. I think it would make sense to loop in boss and grandboss and say “this is my timeline for moving to NY. since I am unable to transfer within the company, I am trying to obtain employment in the city and hope that I can work out of that office occasionally to facilitate my interviews and other moving preparation”.

    2. Where's the Le-Toose?*

      From my manager’s perspective, I think you’re better off just asking your direct supervisor for time off as these interviews come up or making a pitch on how going to New York benefits the company and not because it helps you get a new job.

      I manage 2 supervisors and a team of front line workers. As a manager, it’s really important for me to give my supervisors their own voice. And whenever a front line worker comes directly to me, I always ask “what has your boss said about this?” It’s important for me to establish that front line workers can’t just go over their boss’s head to get to me. Also, it’s important to me to gauge what the boss will do and how she handles the situation–what her voice will be in this situation.

      Sunflower, if your grand boss is a good manager, I imagine your grand boss will do the same thing and refer you back to your boss. Also, as a new boss, your direct supervisor may very well feel like you’ve gone over her head and is likely to say no to PTO requests because of it. It’s tough being a new supervisor, and it takes time to develop good skills. And unfortunately, there are employees who try to take advantage of a new boss, so when you first become a boss, you tend to say no to things you’d say yes to 20 months later.

      From the boss and grand boss perspective, they have to look out for the company’s interests, and if having you work out of New York even for just a few days isn’t in the company’s interests, then they won’t do it, regardless of how accommodating your grand boss may feel because of their personal feelings towards you. So if you’re going to make a pitch for working out of New York for a day or two, you have to make it all about the company–they will save on costs, they will get increased profits, etc.. If it won’t benefit the company at all, then I think you’re better off asking for a day here and there.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      One way you might be able to handle the job search question is by saying, “Eh, we all look from time to time. It’s good to have a fair idea of what is going on out there.”

      She may repeat the question because she may realize this is not an answer. Then you can say, “Sure, I am not exception to that rule of thumb.”

      If she asks you if you plan on leaving, unless you have a job offer in hand you cannot plan to leave.
      Splitting hairs? Maybe. But a good boss has a plan in place to replace any of her employees at any time. It’s her job. It shouldn’t matter that much what your plans are.

  5. Awkward anon*

    My manager was subject to accusations from of my coworkers. It got proven based on witnesses and email archives that it wasn’t true and my manager wasn’t even present at the time. My manager came back from suspension on Monday. She has jumped right back into work. There’s so much tension since she has come back especially when she is in the same room or area as my coworker. The company put out a statement reiterating my manager has been cleared and what my coworker said was false and that she apologized and they expect us to move on and be professional and not gossip. But it is so awkward. I sit between my managers office and my coworkers desk. How should I handle this situation and the awkwardness? I have no control over what my manager or coworker does. Every day since she is back u have felt embarrassed and anxious second-hand and I doubt the tension or awkwardness will be going away soon. It’s so brutal right now. Thanks in advance to anyone who reads/responds.

    1. fposte*

      I know this is easier said than done, but if what if you chose not to find it tense and awkward? Leave it as a thing for those two to work out and don’t take on the emotions yourself. Don’t leave yourself open as an audience for discussion of the situation, don’t become an intermediary, focus on the work.

      1. Awkward anon*

        Thanks for the suggestion. My work overlaps with my coworker a lot and things are intertwined. I can’t avoid my coworker or my boss but I will try what you suggested as much as possible.

        1. Specialk9*

          Try to don serenity as a cloak. You do not have to take on managing their emotions, or being hypervigilant for their awkward interactions, or listening to either talk about the other. This is one of the hardest and most truly freeing lessons I got in therapy.

      2. Augusta Sugarbean*

        Agreed. If the coworker was addressing what she thought was a legit problem and not being backstabby or anything, she probably is feeling embarrassed. And the manager is obviously feeling awkward. I suspect they both want to pretend the whole thing never happened and you can help the situation by just getting back down to business. You aren’t in a position to actually fix the situation. This seems like a good thing: the responsibility of this weird problem doesn’t fall on your shoulders. Let them manage their emotions.

        I remember the feeling when my brother and sister were in trouble with Mom & Dad and I was the good kid. Channel that and you can be all “La la la! Not my problem. I’m doing an awesome job on this project. Here comes my excellent performance review!”

        1. RVA Cat*

          It sounds like the healthiest headspace for you would be to see it as a misunderstanding where neither of them did anything wrong.

    3. Pollygrammer*

      Have there been no consequences from coworker making (and probably knowingly making, right?) a false accusation against your manager besides an apology?

      I think what you can do is make sure it’s clear you’re on your boss’ side, both because she was in the right AND she’s your boss. Give boss your support, make things as easy for her as possible, and don’t give a shirt if your coworker is uncomfortable.

      1. Awkward anon*

        My coworker had to apologize but that’s it and that’s part of why my boss is upset. I do support my boss but my coworker’s stuff and mine overlap so much I have no choice but to be around her and interact with her all day. I can’t do my work without her or I would completely ignore her.

        1. Jesca*

          Wow, that sucks. Boo to your employer then for keeping someone who lacks so much integrity. I mean unfortunately your coworker (and your employer by keeping them) has created a pretty crappy work environment!

          But as far as your question, I would just try to consciously play it up like no tension exists.

          Me personally? I would probably limit my non-work conversations with the employee as well, because if this person chose to lie in such a way before, who is to say they won’t do it again? And the likelihood that they will is probably very high. I myself would likely have already expressed my concerns, professionally, to HR, my manager, and her manager as well in regards to this employee and having to work with her. But if you don’t want to go that route, I wouldn’t say anything except if I were directly asked by someone why I only engage professionally with said employee.

          1. Observer*

            The employer may be worried about retaliation claims. And with good reason. There is a VERY high bar for punishing people who make false claims of harassment.

            1. Jesca*

              I understand your point, and I just disagree. You cannot go through life not punishing people for obvious, clear integrity issues which is what is said here.

              1. Wintermute*

                We don’t know that these accusations were malicious, I think we (and the OP) should assume good faith and presume that these things CAN happen. One real-life example I recall involved a texan prone to using the phrase “rode hard and put away wet”– which is a horse-related term for how bedraggled and matted and unkempt a horse looks after you ride it hard, to the point it is sweating, and put it away without a chance for its hair and mane to dry and without brushing it out and grooming it– But you can easily see how someone could take that to be a very sexual term!

                Once the origin of the phrase was explained, and wikipedia consulted, horrified feelings were soothed and the manager was given a “hey, not everyone knows horsemanship and ranch terms, try to be careful using colorful farm idioms when your audience may not be aware of the etymology of the term” and the offended was told to ask in the moment before assuming something is filthy, and that was that.

                Now that may be assuming a bit TOO much good faith, especially if name calling or accusations of it were involved, but it’s possible no one made a bad-faith complaint here.

                Also, because the bar for bad faith is SO HIGH many companies will try to “play it safe” by not punishing anyone, unfortunately this opens them up to legal attack from the other direction for being so weak-spined, so it goes.

                That said, anon– this person has proved they are potentially unsafe, I wouldn’t be alone with them if the other choice was a hungry mountain lion, I’d watch my language and tone, and I’d make sure to get my interactions documented in writing rather than informally/verbally if at all possible, or get witnesses when I can.

                1. Wintermute*

                  Okay we have more data now. This was a malicious attack.

                  This person is unsafe, if given the choice between an unfed mountain lion and her, choose being in a room alone with the lion. Give her no room to insinuate anything and document yourself meticulously.

            2. Specialk9*

              I don’t understand. Retaliation is punishing someone for making a true claim. It is very much NOT about protecting someone who was proven to have made a deliberately false claim.

              1. Natalie*

                I think Observer is speaking to the risk of a specious retaliation and/or the optics, not necessarily the reality of the situation.

          2. Anion*

            Personally, I’d be tempted to do my best to make sure I have a witness for any interaction with this co-worker. As you said, don’t take chances with liars and false accusers.

        2. Observer*

          Not your circus, not your monkeys.

          You have some valuable information about your coworker and about your company. Keep that in mind, but there is nothing you need to do about this situation. Treat her as you would treat any other person you work with that you’re not especially fond of – polite, collegial and professional, but also cool. Not frosty, just not friends.

    4. OperaArt*

      Treat both of them professionally and politely.
      Don’t turn this into your problem or something you need to fix. It isn’t. They are responsible for their own interactions.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        This. You need to be Switzerland here, not take sides, or at least not appear that you’re taking sides. I also wouldn’t discuss it if the coworker brings it up.

        2. Artemesia*

          I wouldn’t be Switzerland. The co-worker lied to get the boss in trouble. I would talk to the boss about the awkwardness and note that since the co-worker will be continuing in the department and you need to work with her that you will try to be pleasant and neutral all around as you recognize it is awkward. But touch base with the boss and be very very careful around the co-worker. (I am assuming you agree the boss was blameless i.e. that it wasn’t just a matter of whitewashing him)

          1. Augusta Sugarbean*

            Do we or Awkward Anon know the coworker lied though? Maybe I missed it in the questions but it seems like people are assuming it was done maliciously. It seems entirely possible that coworker though the boss was legit in the wrong and thought she was doing the right thing.

            1. Awkward anon*

              My manager was not in the office and was in a different city when my coworker said the event happened. The witnesses and email backed up my manager per the company statement. There was no email from my manager as my coworker claimed. The statement from the company was unequivocally clear that it never happened. My coworker admitted to lying in her apology.

              1. Detective Amy Santiago*

                I would still stay out of it. These are some pretty intense office politics and you do not want to be involved. Be professional and polite to everyone.

                2. Fortitude Jones*

                  Exactly. None of this has anything to do with Awkward Anon, so her going to the boss and pledging allegiance is doing exactly what the company asked everyone not to do – continuing an issue that was already dropped and gossiping.

              2. Augusta Sugarbean*

                Thanks for clarifying. Definitely agree with the advice to stay neutral. Your manager will appreciate you focusing on work and you will be doing all you can to stay clear of lying coworker. Good luck.

              3. anonynony*

                I would not mention anything about it to anyone, I would not address the awkwardness or work around it in any way. I’d just plow through, doing what I do every day, except with maybe a little extra attention to documentation–coworker should know by your actions and attentions that falsehoods of this magnitude will not go unnoticed.

                1. Specialk9*

                  I suspect that was exactly the lesson the co-worker learned, or rather that blatant lying to frame a manager will have no consequences. I would consider her emboldened to do so again without fear of repercussions.

    5. rldk*

      You may want to practice phrases of polite deflection in the event that coworkers (or others!) try to pull you into a discussion about the incident in any way – something like “I’d rather not discuss it” or “Now that it’s been addressed, I’d prefer to not continue talking about it” and then pivot to work talk if needed. If your coworker tries to drag you in on one side or the other, you should feel free to ignore it – it’s not your problem!

    6. I'll come up with a clever name later.*

      Could the tension you feel be imagined? I’m reminded of the Friends episode where Rachel told her boss that she and Ralph Lauren kissed. It never happened but when he stepped on the elevator with them, even there was no conversation and there was legitimately no history for tension her boss read the silence as something other than it was.
      It’s likely that there is tension, but it’s possible that your own feelings about the people involved and the situation may have made the tension feel like more than it is.

      1. Awkward anon*

        The tension is definitely not imagined. My manager is upset my coworker only had to say sorry and wasn’t disciplined and she still has to manager her and can’t fire or transfer her. My coworker is flustered and wary since her falsehood was caught and the manager is now back.

        1. Lisa*

          Ugh. Being forced to manage someone without the ability to fire or transfer is very challenging! And I think your manager is justified in being upset that only an apology was requested.

          To be honest, I wouldn’t be friendly with your co-worker right now. I mean, be polite and work with her, but you don’t have to make her feel better. She *should* feel wary and uncomfortable and it’s not your job to mitigate that, no matter how closely you have to work with her. If she makes things difficult because of that, document, document, document. She already has a black mark against her, she should be on her best behaviour moving forward.

          Also, I would talk to your boss to see if there’s anything else she’d like you to take on. It may be that there are projects that require more integrity that she would consider putting you on.

        2. WellRed*

          I can’t believe your company expects the two to continue to work together. I realize there may be no other options, though.

        4. Lilo*

          Your poor manager. It is absurd to ask her to continue supervising someone who lied about her. Your upper management needs a reality check.

        5. Lora*

          It sounds like upper management is very definitely worried that no matter what their internal finding, your co-worker may challenge it later or escalate to EEOC and they want to have their butts covered to show that they didn’t do anything which could be even slightly construed as punitive in any way.

          In order to file an EEOC claim of sexual harassment, you have to go through the motions of using the company’s internal method for addressing complaints. So, she did that part. The company didn’t find in her favor. Which isn’t surprising – they often don’t, regardless of what evidence exists or doesn’t exist.

          She now has to *at least temporarily* accept what the company has given her and decide if
          1) she wants to stay there
          2) she wants to escalate to an EEOC claim
          3) she wants to call a lawyer.
          None of these options really precludes the other. She can do all of them or none of them. The option the VAST majority of women take is to leave the company and then do nothing, because options 2 and 3 are very much career-limiting. They should not be, but they are, so that’s a choice she has to make for herself based on what resources she has.

          Your boss is going to have to deal. That’s why they get paid the big bucks. Be as blandly professional as possible. There is literally nothing for you to do otherwise.

          1. Tillerton*

            Per the details OP posted in their replies here, the boss was in a different city and the coworker has admitted to lying. So the boss is being forced to manage someone who tried to set her up on false sexual harassment claims. Name calling too. That’s an untenable position for the boss no matter how much money she gets paid.

            1. Observer*

              Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter. It’s illegal to retaliate – even when the claim turns out to be not true. And apparently, even when the claim is malicious.

              Some links in the response.

              1. Observer*

                https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/retaliation.cfm

                Participating in a complaint process is protected from retaliation under all circumstances. Other acts to oppose discrimination are protected as long as the employee was acting on a reasonable belief that something in the workplace may violate EEO laws, even if he or she did not use legal terminology to describe it.

                https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiR8cmcqejYAhUH1lMKHdddA0YQFgh5MA0&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eeoc.gov%2Feeoc%2Fpublications%2Fupload%2FRetaliation-Brochure-9-9-2013-OLC-to-OFP.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2kEhuNSeWhkYod5hzN5ris
                (EEOC PDF)

                Protection against retaliation applies even if
                the original complaint or charge was untimely
                or was found to lack merit.

                I did some more checking – he employer could probably win if the employee sued, but they could wind up with an expensive law suit.

        6. Jane of all trades f/k/a anon accountant*

          Ugh! What a stressful situation. I’d try to pretend like you don’t notice the awkwardness, and be polite and professional with both. Definitely don’t share anything personal or get too close to the coworker, for 2 reasons: 1. you don’t want to get sucked into her drama, which could be risky since she clearly has no integrity 2. you don’t want your manager thinking that you are close to this person.
          I’d not bring it up with the manager unless she does, because this is probably a really painful experience for her, and she might welcome being able to just focus on her work and go back to doing her job. Hopefully she has a good support system to help her through this bs. You can’t be that, but you can be the person at work who is upbeat and professional, doesn’t tiptoe around her and doesn’t bring it up.
          Good luck!

    8. Tillerton*

      If I was you I would be doing everything I could to get out of there. No way I could work closely with someone who lied about sexual harassment, and for a company that does nothing about it.

    9. Recently Diagnosed*

      You sound a lot like me. If someone is upset or angry around me, I swear I can feel it and it’ll drive me up the wall. My trusty therapist calls this my empathy bone, and I’ve had to work on a couple of tools to shut that down since I can’t stop the emotions of others. I have two things that have worked for me so far. The first is simply walking away for a few moments when I feel overwhelmed. I take a walk around the outside of the building, blasting some music from my headphones.

      The other thing is a little more abstract, but when I CAN’T get up and walk, this has worked for me. I close my eyes at my desk and visualize myself on the top of a mountain. Below me, the emotions and awkwardness of the people around me flow like water around the mountain, but I myself am above it. Then, I focus on the mental image of walls rising up to shut out the “sound” of the weirdness. This visualization is supposed to help create mental “blocks” against the urge to empathize so closely with others that you sacrifice your own mood. YMMV, especially on this second one, but I have had some success with it.

      1. Specialk9*

        I’m the same way. I can’t ignore roiling emotions in others. But I manage by listening to a Jim Brickman piano station on Pandora most days, in headphones. I have guided meditation (Bonnie Groessel is my favorite) when I get stressed. And lots of herbal tea.

  6. SunshineSnickers*

    I’ve been having a rough few months at work and have been making mistakes/letting things slip through the cracks. Nothing huge but my boss has had a conversation with me about one project I need to get a tighter grip on.

    Every time a problem happens, my brain goes from “You made a mistake” straight to “You are a bad/horrible/terrible person and if you were a better person, this would not have happened.”

    My question – for those of you who recognize what I’m talking about, how do you break out of this pattern?

    1. grace*

      I’ve been having this problem, too. My manager is flexible about it — I’m “imaginative” enough that my mistakes are at least different things, not the same ones over and over again — but I keep having to break myself out of the same loop you’re talking about.

      For me, I go on runs – inside, lately, due to the cold :'( – or talk my thoughts out to a willing-to-listen sounding board (I’ve bought my SO some nice gifts lately, lol).

    2. Muriel Heslop*

      I have a colleague who struggles with that. He has a diagnosis of anxiety and is also in therapy. I’ve told him that he can come to me if he needs to talk but I have noticed an improvement since he has started the combo of therapy/medication.

      Good luck! Everyone makes mistakes.

    3. fposte*

      CBT advice for that is restatement–what, for instance, would somebody you respect and admire say about your error that wasn’t “You are a bad person”? It doesn’t mean leaping to complete exculpation, but good managers really don’t tell people they’re a bad person–what would you tell someone about a mistake if you were managing them?

      1. Thursday Next*

        I do a version of this, in which I imagine what I would say to a dear friend, someone I care about and want to support. Depending on the situation, I might imagine what I would say to one of my children (it’s always much nicer than anything I’d say to myself!). The idea(l) is to get to the point where I feel like I can offer *myself* the care and support I’d give someone else without these mental gymnastics.

    4. KR*

      I have this issue too. For me, it’s an anxiety issue for sure. I’m not in therapy but have been considering going.

      I talk to my husband and he is good at pep talking me and telling me that it’s just my anxiety talking. I also try to cut off that train of thought when I hear myself going down that route, so when I start feeling down on myself I intentionally think to myself, “Manager is being straight with you. He thinks you’re doing good. It’s okay. You can do it. You will bounce back from this. Don’t panic.”

      I’m in the same boat trying to deal with this. Hope this helps.

    5. Anony*

      The best way I have found to deal with it is look forward, not back. If I find myself dwelling on what I did wrong I instead make a list of what I need to do right now, because I can’t go back and change what is already done.

    6. Princess Carolyn*

      Consciously change the way you talk to yourself. Tell yourself you’re smart and capable and ready to prove it. Say it out loud if you need to.

      This is also a good time to re-evaluate your systems, like creating (or revamping) checklists, adding reminders to your calendar, double checking stuff you typically wouldn’t, that kind of thing. Be slightly more conscientious than you think is necessary.

      1. zora*

        This is the technique my therapist has me doing for this exact thing, and honestly, with more practice it is becoming easier and easier each time.

        I sat down and wrote out some positive responses to those negative thoughts. “Everyone makes mistakes, [reminder of a time my boss made a small mistake], it doesn’t mean I’m a bad person” “I am not a bad person, I care about doing things right, and I do my best to do things right.” “I am a smart and capable person and my boss appreciates my work, she is not going to fire me, she understands that everyone makes mistakes and that I can try to do better next time.”

        I made myself a list of them. And when the negative thoughts happen, I literally take out my notebook and rewrite those positive responses. It felt weird at first, it didn’t feel like I was internalizing it, but I did it anyway. And the more I’ve done it, the more it’s become a habit and now I sometimes immediately have the postive thoughts automatically without even having to remind myself! It really is like a muscle that gets easier the more you practice.

    7. Boop*

      I have this exact problem, and it has caused serious anxiety issues. It’s a work in progress, but here are some things I’ve discovered.

      1. Consider therapy and/or medication. Even if it’s just short term, it can help.
      2. A support system is essential – SO, parents, siblings, friends.
      3. A leisure activity that has nothing to do with work can help you disengage and recharge. Ideally something that also engages your mind or keeps you mentally on point.
      4. Podcasts. Listening to podcasts helps me engage my mind in something else so I don’t obsess about work. Falling asleep, in the car, even at work.
      5. When you’re having a serious episode, do something else for a few minutes. I was having a really rough morning last week (crying at my desk for no reason), so I took a little walk. Changing your environment is enormously helpful!
      6. Forgive yourself. No one is perfect, and your boss understands that. We all have difficult times in our lives.
      Forgive yourself for what has already happened and learn from it going forward.

    8. Queen of the File*

      Sometimes if I’m really ruminating on something I write it down as something to think about later. “Making mistakes is getting me down. Need to concentrate on acing this project so no time to worry right now. BF bad thought time to undecided future date.”

      This often gets my mind to put it to rest for the time being, and then I just never go back to follow up on the worry.

    9. Elizabeth West*

      I’ve saved emails where someone is praising me for something, and when I feel that way, I read them and remind myself that yes, I’m actually not an incompetent blob.

      1. College Career Counselor*

        I had a former boss who called this the “Psychological Income File!” 20 years later, and I still have one for the rough days.

        1. K.*

          My boss at my first full-time job called this a “kudos folder,” and I’ve kept one ever since. There are going to be days at work where you want to run screaming out of the office, and the folder can help. They’re also good for annual reviews.

    10. CM*

      One thing that helps me is to think about how I would react if somebody else made the same mistake. I probably wouldn’t think they’re a terrible person. If it were somebody junior to me, I might wonder how I could help them.

      Even with coworkers that keep making the same mistake over and over, there are generally good things that they do to make up for that. I might be frustrated with them at times, but overall I still like working with them.

      I still get that pit in my stomach, but reframing how other people might see my mistakes often helps.

    11. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Therapy. That’s been the best solution for me. I suffer terribly from exactly what you describe, and it got worse at my last job. At that place, every mistake WAS framed as a personal failing. It’s been a hard, hard thing to get past, but I am almost there. My therapist helps me to fully comprehend that my mistakes don’t make me a terrible person, and no one who sees my mistakes thinks I’m a terrible person. They are just mistakes, and we take them and learn from them and move forward.

      The other thing, which can be more immediate, is focusing on a hobby. Something outside of work that takes the overwhelming importance off of work. Especially if it’s something you’re good at. :) It sounds so mundane, but for me, this can be a great rehearsal with my group or a successfully baked loaf of bread. For me, organized activities are best (I can establish myself as a strong team member or a leader), but solo hobbies also work. Say, knitting– the feeling of accomplishment you get when you make a knitting mistake and fix it well can be very healing.

      1. LifeOrDeath*

        My last job did the same to me. It got to a point that I started hiding my mistakes if I caught them in time to do so. The owners were screamers and I still get a sinking feeling when I think about them. Now I have a job where I am praised for the quality of my work and part of my job IS to deal with mistakes, mine and others, so I treat my collegues mistakes the way I would like mine to be addressed – with kindness and with speed – and I own my own. I also keep one of those e-mail folders with uplifting e-mails.

    12. Spotcheck*

      Ooh, lord, this is so me. Therapy helped. Medication helps me more. I take a low-dose antidepressant/anti-anxiety medication and it’s made a world of difference in my brain.

      1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

        Same. A break down at work over a minor mistake that spiraled into a massive panic attack was what pushed me to finally talk to my doctor about meds after years of therapy. They really helped me.

    13. Oranges*

      I did it by finding my fear, finding my worth and trying to take judgement statements out of my internal monologue. It was slow tough work. There wasn’t an easy fix for it.

      Finding my Fear: what exactly do I fear if I “let things slip”. For me it was ostracization. Then I went through it. I figured out what was the absolute worst thing that could happen in the realm of possibilities. Could I live through that? Yes? Then it became not an unknown quality or “The Worst Thing Ever” but a sucky thing that had a very small chance of happening.

      Finding my Worth: When I did the above I found a core group that no matter what I did would still sacrifice the world for my smile if they could. They didn’t care what I could do for them. They just wanted me to be happy. Then I said the world isn’t my responsibility, I am worthy if I just get through this life and make other’s lives a bit better. I am not superwoman.

      Blame/Value Statements: This is the hardest part. This is the little voice that tells you that you need to be perfect or else. Eg I have weird intrusive thoughts (my brain looooves trying to convince me I’m a pervert or a psycho). When I’ve had these in the past I’ve gone “What is WRONG with you” now I go “Hi brain, nice trick, yes that is gross/disgusting no I’m not turned on by it.” So I might go “Even [insert personal hero] messed up sometimes. I mess up sometimes and people will cut me some slack same as if [insert peer name] did it.” This will take time. The paths in your brain won’t like it. You’ll mess it up. But if you keep trying your mental muscles will become stronger and it will make living a hell of a lot easier. Trust me.

    14. Jesca*

      Ok I am going to say up front that what about I am about to say may sound really goofy, but it was the only thing that really worked for me!

      I read self help books on the issue! Ya know? Those new age ones all about operating on “higher frequencies” (I don’t go that deep with it, mind you). But really I went this route because I had gotten desperate. i had tried a couple different therapists who just did not seem to help. I was very mean and hard on myself all the time. It made me depressed and anxious and I always felt awful about myself.

      But back to the fru-fru books. What is nice about a lot of them is that they actually walk you through what many congitive behavior therapists walk you through. Some of the things you do is deep self reflection on what you were taught to believe or what you have thus far internalized about yourself AND THEN question them. Then they teach how to create positive affirmation to correct your internal dialogue with yourself. And example would be that when you make a mistake you replace “I am such a loser and moron” with “That did not go the way I planned. But I was operating what I knew or thought at the time. Now I can do better next time”. So see? No self blame.

      Other things they have you do is learn to love yourself just as you are and not look at yourself as being a failure in what you think you SHOULD be doing. Some of them also say believe in a higher power and that you correct your own physical ailments – stuff I just ignore and you can too! Or not. That is what I found to be wonderful about it personally. I could decide what was working for me while be given a step by step guide in how to correct my internal thought processes and personal dialogues.

      If you want some book recommendations, I could give some. If this isn’t the way you want to go, then you could find a good therapist!

      All I know is that I am so glad I did this for myself! Good Luck!

    15. SunshineSnickers*

      Thank you everyone for the kind words and suggestions!

      For some reason, I’ve always been a little reluctant to try therapy (never thought I had a big enough problem to warrant it) but I think it’s time now to start looking into it :)

      1. Recently Diagnosed*

        Let me tell you. I have no diagnosed mental illness, but my husband suffers from several. I always compared myself to him and figured that I was healthy. Finally, the unexpected death of a close friend nearly crushed me, so I made an appointment with a therapist a good friend of mine trusted. It has changed my life. As well as being diagnosed (twice) with adult ADD, I’ve discovered many unhealthy coping mechanisms I wasn’t aware I was leaning on that I’m working on rerouting. I’m of the opinion that every living, breathing human being should see a therapist at some point. Give it a shot.

      2. Lily Rowan*

        This is a bad comparison, but I get a monthly massage, even though I don’t have any severe back or muscle problems. But it makes my body feel better! And maybe avoids more serious issues.

        I feel like therapy is like that — maybe you just need a little shape-up, maybe you just need a dedicated ear. You definitely don’t need Serious Problems to benefit from it.

    17. Anon for this*

      Cognitive behavioral therapy.

      Basically, you have to create a new habit of a) catching yourself doing that and b) successfully re-directing.

      I recently lost a job, and I kept replaying the meeting over and over in my mind when I was trying to go to sleep. My therapist asked what I could think of that would distract me, and I would think of my cat. And after doing it a few times, it started to stick. Think the bad thought, then automatically think of the cat. It would break the cycle, and I could go to sleep.

    18. C38*

      Do not entirely connect your sense of self worth to your job performance. We all bad days/weeks/months at work, and there are a million things that can contribute to it- many of which are more out of your control than you may realize. Keep telling yourself that you’re a good person regardless of how many mistakes you make at work.

      Also, you may not be doing as poorly as you think. Keep in mind that its you’re boss’s job to point these things out because he wants you to strive to be your best, even if they aren’t a huge deal. EVERYONE makes mistakes from time to time.

    19. Agnodike*

      I try to talk to myself the way I talk to my sister, who is slightly error-prone. When I notice myself thinking harshly about something I’ve done, I remind myself I don’t judge her harshly when she makes a mistake; why would I do it to myself? It really helps.

    20. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      I have a question: how would YOU think of someone who did the same work that you do?

      Like, if you were your boss, and one of your employees was going through a rough time and was letting a few things slip, and it got to the point where you needed to talk to them about one of their projects, would you think that this hypothetical employee was a bad/horrible/terrible person, and if they were a better person, this would not have happened?

      I’m guessing that you wouldn’t. So I hope you can treat yourself with the same kindness as I hope you treat others with. (I’m a stranger on the internet, but I have a hunch I’m right about how you’d treat someone else.)

    21. Scubacat*

      I push my brain to try and think of the Mistake as an Opportunity. It’s tough, and you will still feel bad. However, I’ve found that to be helpful when shaking off a mistake.

      Phase 1: Mistake happens. Ahhh! Fudge buckets! I’m the worst employee in the history of paid Labour!”
      Phase 2: What went wrong? Where did it go wrong?
      Phase 2.5: I feel like such an idiot.
      Phase 3: Can I improve the system so that it doesn’t happen again? What can I do better next time?
      Phase 3.4 Humans make mistakes. I am an imperfect human.
      Phase 4: Improvement! Learning! Things are better than before!
      Phase 5: Old mistake will not happen again. I am prepared to learn from New Mistake.

    22. Not So NewReader*

      1) Pretend that you are talking to a friend. If you cannot say it to a friend then you shouldn’t say it to yourself either.

      2) When you catch you beating yourself up, apologize to yourself and state an affirmation. It’s helpful to have a list of affirmations that you circle through. I used to tell myself, “I can and I will fix this.” When I first starting taking control over this, there would almost be tears running down my face as I stated this affirmation.

      3) This brings us to fixing it. Each time you make a mistake, fix it. This sounds so simple, but it’s powerful over time. That is because you will begin to see yourself as a person who says, “Yeah, I made a mistake BUT I also know what to do to fix it.” My boss and I joke that we can fix anything because we have made every mistake there is.

      4) This one is the toughest one. For each mistake you make, find a way to prevent it from happening again. Your prevention technique for some things could to be just to re-read it. Other things you might find that you can compare the totals in column A to the totals in column B and nail down any possible errors that could happen.
      Sometimes I set things aside for five minutes and work on something else. When I go back to the first thing the mistakes jump out at me because I have fresh eyes.

      5) My last one is a little mind-bending. If your boss is telling you that you are doing a good job AND you tell yourself you are NOT, then you are basically saying the boss is a foolish person who does not understand the work. Lighten up. In all likelihood, the boss understands the work very well and understands that you can be beating your head against the wall every five minutes all day long. She knows this head-beating thing is part of the job. She signs your time sheet/paycheck. It is her decision to make that your work is fine. LET her decide that, don’t decide FOR her.

    23. Jane of all trades f/k/a anon accountant*

      In the moment: Can you make yourself a list of cool things you accomplished, victories, and things you did that you got great feedback for? You could look at that in really tough moments. I have a couple of emails and screenshots of texts from when people paid me a compliment that was particularly meaningful to me.
      Longer term: do you have a good support system that you can reach out to for comfort when you’re feeling low? Also, (and this may not be applicable in your case, but its worth a shot) I noticed for myself that bad times at work sting so much more when my life is not as well rounded as I’d like. When I have hobbies and other interests that are meaningful to me, and a good social group I am much more able to withstand a period of stress at work, because its not so all encompassing.
      Finally – I have had to talk to people about performance issues, and it has never caused me to think less of them. In fact some of these people reacted in a very positive way which caused me to think more highly of them. These are people who listened thoughtfully to the feedback and were interested in talking through the issue or had ideas on how to improve. From your post you sound like a professional and responsible person, so assuming that your manager isn’t some kind of a**hole they did not go into this conversation, or leave this conversation thinking “oh, Sunshine Snickers is a terrible person”. Everybody has a hard time at work from time to time. We get past them, and hopefully we can grow from them by increasing our resilience, or our skillset, or our ability to recognize our own mistakes and fix them.
      Best of luck to you, hopefully things get better very soon. In the meantime, don’t be too hard on yourself!

    24. Insufferable Bureaucrat*

      Do you have a coworker in the same/similar role who seems to be able to let mistakes/slip ups/stressful situations roll off their back like you wish you could? I’ve been where you are. Early in my career I had a very well respected slightly more experienced coworker in the same role as I, let’s call her Janice. Janice was somehow able to not be bothered by making mistakes we all do in our high pressure high stress role, (or at least seem to). I have no idea how, maybe she just hid her feelings of inadequacy better than the rest of us. What helped me is to try to become Janice when I make a mistake and/or let something slip up. When I start down mindset of “omg I’m terrible, how are they even paying me to do this, nobody will ever respect again” I literally say to myself: what would Janice do? Would she be freaking out? Would you think Janice is horrible/terrible/incompetent if she made the same mistake you did? Of course not. Be Janice. Janice wouldn’t freak out why should I, I’m just as good as Janice. Repeat as needed. Now I basically am Janice. I’ve heard from younger coworkers that they admire my ability to let things roll off my back but when the feelings come back I still go back to “what would Janice do”. Not sure if this would help you but it definitely worked for me

  7. Weird Interview*

    Weird interview experience last week. I was one of the top two finalists for a position as web manager for a nonprofit. I had gone through three phone interviews with the hiring manager and with the CEO. All these interviews went very well and I was repeatedly assured that I was an extremely strong contender and my skillset and experience were a solid match for the scope and needs of the job and the plans they had for the position.

    I had my fourth, in-person interview in two parts: one with the CEO and the other with a VP. The CEO part went very well. I came out of that interview feeling great, that I had impressed him and that this was a solid opportunity. The interview with the VP went horribly. The first thing out of his mouth was what do I know and what have I done in marketing. The job description, my previous interviews, and none of my previous conversations mentioned marketing as a requirement for the job! I was thrown for a loop by this surprise and it was downhill from there.

    Needless to say, I did not get the job. I asked the CEO for feedback after they sent me the rejection email and he said it came down to the other person having more supervisory and marketing experience.

    I haven’t been able to stop thinking about this. In one sense I feel like I dodged a major bullet. Obviously the CEO and VP were not aligned with their expectations of the position. The VP’s strong focus on marketing was a curveball coming out of nowhere. If the CEO and the VP are not in agreement on the scope of the position, and if the VP were to have a major hand in managing me, it could only spell trouble if they had hired me expecting marketing skills and experience and I had little to none.

    On the other hand, I am stymied why this marketing focus came up all of a sudden at the last minute. Why on earth did they spring this at this late stage in the interview process? If they wanted marketing to be part of the mix of skills for candidates, wouldn’t it make sense for them to mention it much, much earlier? Is this a symptom of an organization that is a mess or has major communication issues behind the scenes?

    1. misspiggy*

      It might be that the VP had a favoured candidate, and pushed the marketing angle because the other person happened to have that experience. And then people in that situation act all like marketing experience was always central to the role. Infuriating, but not worth letting yourself waste any brain cells over.

      1. Triple Anon*

        Yeah. I’m thinking either that or the VP and CEO had different ideas about the job description. I’d call it an orange flag, a flying object dodged. It could signify major problems or it could be fairly benign. But it’s in the, “Their problem, not yours,” category, so I would just move on and count this as interview practice. Hopefully the experience will help you to interview better and you can put that to use to find a really good job.

    2. Anony*

      It could be that they added the marketing focus in either because the needs of the organization changed or because the other candidate had a strong marketing background and they realized that it would be beneficial. I wouldn’t read too much into it at this point.

      1. Kimberlee, Esq.*

        Agreed. It’s really common to advertise a job and have some good candidates that bring something to the table that you hadn’t even thought about wanting. At that point, it makes sense to ask your other candidates if they have a similar background – fair is fair – and it also makes sense for that extra something to eventually be a make or break in a way they couldn’t have predicted. I don’t think you should automatically assume it says anything bad about the company (especially since they were pretty open about telling you why they ended up hiring the other person).

      2. Thlayli*

        I agree, most likely the other candidate had good marketing experience in addition to the listed requirements.

        The interviewer was a jerk though.

    3. chica*

      I suspect that you dodged a bullet. Also, it’s very possible that they were interviewing other candidates and the person with more marketing experience interviewed first and they ended up really liking that mix of experience and it brought up new possibilities for the role they hadn’t originally considered. So then, while interviewing you, he asks about your marketing experience as a compare/contrast with the candidate they’ve already talked to.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        It sounds like this is what happened, that the other candidate went first and the VP fixated on the marketing aspect as a way to differentiate, and prioritize, the other candidate.

        I’ve had that happen, where the job description and initial interview doesn’t mention something that later turned out to be the dealbreaker. It’s nothing I could have fixed in the moment, so I assume the job wouldn’t have been as good a fit as it first sounded and therefore no big loss.

        Still hard when you’ve invested that much time, though, I’m sorry.

        1. Jesca*

          I agree too! I think this is exactly what happened. They realized they other candidate had a skill they hadn’t thought of that may be beneficial to have in the long run and then went with it.

          I once interviewed for a job where the job add said one thing, but then after a couple questions I had, they realized they needed something else! In that instance, it worked for me as what they actually needed was my skill set and not what they had advertised. So, this could definitely happen.

    4. zora*

      Try not to fixate on this!!!! You have no way of knowing why this came up so late, and it could be no particular reason at all!

      – The other candidate went first and in reviewing their marketing experience the VP suddenly realized, that could be really helpful, even though they had never discussed that as part of this position.
      – This place could have REALLY terrible communication issues, and the VP completely thinks about everything differently than the CEO but neither of them can talk frankly with each other like grownups. You do not want to be in the middle of that! Can you imagine all the conflicting requests you could get as the web manager, and how frustrating that job would be?

      Anyway, regardless, it doesn’t really matter. It could have been caused by a million-trillion things and you have no way of knowing why, and either way you weren’t the best fit for the job. So TRY to let it go and just shrug and move on. I know, it’s easier said than done, but really agonizing over it will stress you out.

    5. Where's the Le-Toose?*

      I have four guesses!

      (1) Just as you said, the CEO and VP have different visions
      (2) Just as everyone else has said, the VP had a favorite.
      (3) The CEO and VP were on the same page but they don’t know how to post a job, e.g. leave off an important skill set for the position
      (4) They were on the same page and it was deliberate, e.g. they wanted a person with strong IT skills and some marketing skills and didn’t want to say “marketing” in the job posting because they didn’t want people who were really strong on marketing and medium-to-weak on IT.

      However, given that it came up only with the VP, I think it’s #1 or #2. And given the guesses, there is nothing different you could have done to change any of them.

  8. Future Analyst*

    Any tips for handling a manager who seems to have too much going on, but vacillates between being overly involved in things that we don’t need managed for us, while sometimes not answering our emails for weeks/months? On any given day, I spend about 50% of my time on easily managed, quickly fixed items (tickets that teams send do our dept), and 50% on longer term, big picture items. Some weeks, my manager gets super involved in the nitty gritty of the first lot (jumping in on emails, sometimes with inaccurate info, or otherwise being overly involved in the management of those tickets), and other times I have to follow up with her for 6 months for an answer (all while other stakeholders are waiting on me). The inconsistency is driving me batty, and short of leaving, I don’t know how to handle this.

    1. Pollygrammer*

      Can you use a really clear deadline, not as a demand but as a request? “It would be great to have this answered by the 15th. Would that be possible? If not, what timeline would work for you?”

      This doesn’t do anything about her management style, and some people definitely treat deadlines as something to be agreed to and immediately forgotten about, but maybe it’s worth a try?

    2. CM*

      I have had this boss! For the overly-involved times, try to let it go, and manage the inaccurate info as best you can. For the disappearances, I would talk to her about this and suggest some solutions. You could say, “I’m having an issue where stakeholders are waiting on me when I need your approval. I understand that you have other priorities and can’t always respond immediately, but I’d like to be able to resolve these issues faster. Some ideas I had are…” and you can propose things like she delegates certain issues to you, or you can schedule regular one-on-ones where you bring her a list of items on which you need her input, or you can send emails like, “Please send me your feedback by the end of the day Thursday. If I haven’t heard from you, I will pass this on to the rest of the team on Friday.”

      1. Future Analyst*

        We have weekly one-on-ones, and I raise these issues weekly, but hear “Oh, yes, let me get back to you on that, I should have an answer next week.” Rinse, repeat, ad nauseum. I’m hesitant to try the “if I haven’t heard back from you, I’ll xyz” b/c she tends to come down hard on us if she thinks we’re acting out of our role. I guess I’m now seeing myself write “Your boss (mildly) sucks, and isn’t going to change.” I guess I just had hope I could work around it, since I like her as a person, just not necessarily as MY manager.

        1. Argh!*

          My colleagues and I joke about “Let me get back to you on that” – it’s my boss’s classic blow-off line. She almost never does. Another blow-off line is “Send me an email.” For a good while she never responded to the emails. Then I started keeping a list of them and I asked about each one in our one-on-ones. Now the rate is up to about 50%.

    3. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      I dealt with this type of issue, plus really bad communication style that was extremely demoralizing. Honestly, I found a new job. Good luck.

    4. Argh!*

      I have one like this. She will ignore my emails, not email me, and then suddenly she’s Ms. Micromanager, and asks about something from weeks ago. Sometimes she claims I didn’t reply to her email when in fact I did. I forward my replies, and she never apologizes. Yet if I forget one of her emails (because once the flurry of micromanaging is over, she doesn’t follow up), I’m a terrible person.

      I’m looking for another job mainly because of my boss.

    5. Where's the Le-Toose?*

      One of the supervisors who reports to me does this. The problem this supervisor has is that on the long term important projects, he isn’t sure of himself, and doesn’t want to take a position on things. He hopes that if he ignores it long enough, someone else will do it. Because he feels bad on the long term stuff, he gets way too involved on the short term easier stuff because he wants to add value.

      We’ve have conversations as to why, and the supervisor tells me he doesn’t want to get yelled at by our agency head for making a bad decision. Unfortunately, that’s just the way our agency head is and that he can’t let the fear of making a bad decision lead to no decision. I have weekly meetings with the supervisor to get him on track, to get him comfortable with making decisions, but I have a feeling all of it is working towards a performance issue with the supervisor. If he can’t handle the long term stuff, he needs to get a different position in our agency.

      Future, I don’t know if your manager is this type of person, but it would explain a lot to me. Unfortunately, if your manager is this type of person, there’s little you can do. And if your manager isn’t this type of person, then the advice above is spot on to me.

    6. Specialk9*

      Try setting up a system with your boss – action items for her you’ll send as Tasks. Anything in an email is FYI and you’ve got it. You can even help her set up a folder for your emails, that auto routes there without cluttering up her inbox, but she can find info if she goes looking.

  9. hermit crab*

    Please help me brainstorm what to do with my life!

    I’ve been working at an environment/energy consulting firm for my whole professional career so far (about 10 years). It’s neither management consulting nor traditional environmental consulting, but more like program implementation and other specialized technical support on big government contracts. I have had a great experience but I’m ready for something new. I do NOT want to stay in consulting. Other than that, my only criterion is that I have to stay in the D.C. area.

    The natural path for someone like me is to go work for the client, but in my case that’s U.S. federal government agencies who aren’t really hiring right now, and even if they were I don’t want to spend a year waiting in limbo through that hiring process (my spouse just went through that, it was rough – but it means I have the freedom now to think about what I want to do).

    So… I guess that leaves nonprofits? Think tank type places? I have a bachelors degree in a natural science and an MPH with an emphasis in environmental health. No lab or coding background other than what I have picked up here and there. My strength is quickly getting up to speed on unfamiliar information and using it to problem solve. I’m a decent project manager but don’t have a PMP or other formal training.

    Searching Indeed or Idealist isn’t yielding much in the way of ideas. Any thoughts? Out-of-the box ideas welcome!

      1. hermit crab*

        I’ve never even heard of HESI, but it sounds like a great organization. I’ll definitely check that out.

        Thank you (and everyone else) for the suggestions!

    2. misspiggy*

      If your contracts expertise can be easily translated to other sectors, nonprofit grant departments would probably welcome you, although you’d be doing more proposal development and monitoring than implementation.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        I was going to suggest grants and proposal positions as well – I keep getting a ton of listings for D.C. area companies looking for grant writers and proposal managers.

    3. DC cheerleader*

      Keep an eye on local DC government jobs. I’ve found there to be a really wide range of positions open at times. Check DOH and DOEE in particular.

    4. Tara*

      This sounds a little like what I do, although with more experience and specialized. I work for a research institute at a University and love it here. Fair warning – it can be hard to beat a consultants salary. One of my Mom’s co-workers went from being a consultant on a project to being in a GS position, and even though it was a promotion, her net pay was basically the same.

    6. gmg22*

      You might look at the other side of the coin and explore employment with grant-making/philanthropic organizations. I work for a small nonprofit that also does energy/environment work, and my experience has been that our funders definitely rely on knowledgeable people in-house to help them decide where to put their money.

    7. Int dev girl*

      Check out the World Bank Group? They do a bunch of work on international development in the environmental sector. There’s also NGOs and think tanks I imagine doing relevant work. By the way, you can easily formalise your project management using an online course like PRINCE2 to bolster your CV. not that expensive (just done it!)

    8. Jellydonutsandtea*

      Big companies? ? My company makes products sold in stores nationally/globally. That said, we have an entire department that manages our recycling program, our solar panel farms, our global impact, etc. etc.

    10. CherryBlossom*

      Have you looked at the VA? I know you aren’t wild about federal jobs . . . but your MPH and other background isn’t necessarily totally out of the scope of VA research, and may be apropos esp given increased interest in newer deployment related conditions, a priority of the Secretary. And you said out of the box ideas were welcome! Apologize if you’ve already decided against the VA.

      1. hermit crab*

        No, that’s a good suggestion! I’m just not sure I have the time (or, really, the patience) for dealing with usajobs right now. But I will definitely keep that on my list!

  10. Deb*

    Following in from the letter about the Kosher kitchen: are there other religious accommodations that workplaces are often (or occasionally) asked to provide? Does it matter what proportion of employees are affected? (E.g. What % of kosher employees would you have before you’d think it was a reasonable request?) Would it have to be a majority rules thing?

    1. A Nonny Mouse*

      Space and time for prayer, especially for Muslims who pray multiple times per day. Also for some people of Jewish faith, leaving early so that they can be home before dark for Sabbath

      And in my opinion, it doesn’t have to be a majority thing. If one person requests it they should be able to get it. I’m not saying that they won’t need to use leave or whatever, but denying it is a jerk move (and possibly illegal).

      1. Justin*

        Yeah my colleague leaves early on Fridays for that reason. Sometimes in the winter it’s as early as like 2:00 because he also lives somewhat outside the city.

      2. Oranges*

        I think the question was trying to get to how much of money it will cost the business vs how many people that money will help. So do you do a cost/benefit analysis based upon percentage of employees it will help if it’s a larger outlay of cash?

      3. Immy*

        I assumed the % employees was about having a separate second kitchen for Kosher or similar, if the office is small its not super realistic to expect they’d have a second kitchen for one employee given they’d be unlikely to actually have a second kitchen at all.

    2. Pollygrammer*

      I don’t know that a kosher kitchen would ever really be necessary–kosher people can always bring food from home, it’s not really a hardship to be unable to prepare it at work.

      There are types of religious accommodations that should pretty much always be offered; a private space for prayer isn’t all that different from a private space to, say, pump breast milk. Both are fairly easy to provide, and IMHO should always be offered if requested.

      1. Lucky*

        People who keep kosher like a hot lunch as much as the next guy. Having a designated fridge, microwave and dishware reserved for them wouldn’t be too much of a hardship for most mid-sized companies.

    4. Millennial Lawyer*

      A kosher kitchen is the kind of thing I wouldn’t really consider an accommodation but something a workplace with kosher keeping prinicpals would institute – having a kosher only mini fridge or microwave might be something a smaller group would ask for, but other than that a lot of kosher keeping individuals are used to bringing their own prepared lunch.

      1. Justme, The OG*

        That’s really going to depend on your location. I moved from an area with a large enough Jewish population that there was a separate kosher deli in the grocery stores. I would completely understand an employer in that city providing a kosher kitchen. Here, though? No way.

    5. TimJ*

      What Deb said above me ^

      The biggest one at my work is that anyone who requests a religious holiday (with some exceptions) gets the day off without pay and without having to use PTO or any of their own time off. So for example, Passover and Ramadan but not Easter or Ash Wednesday. My work is open 12 hours a day (7am to 7pm) 7 days a week. Everyone gets 2 days in a row off, though not necessarily Saturday/Sunday. The only day we are closed is Christmas Day.

      1. Wow*

        Why doesn’t Easter apply? I thought it was illegal to give different treatment based on religion. Is there a reason for it?

        1. theletter*

          It might have something to do with Easter always being on Sunday – it’s probably a lot easier to find someone to trade shifts than to take a day without a pay, and that might be a better trade off for the Christians since the office (and most of the hemisphere) is closed on Christmas, whereas Passover and Eid tend to fall on workdays and much of the working world keeps working. It sounds to me like it works out that everybody gets 1 major holiday off to enjoy their religion, while those who do not celebrate Christmas get, well, an extra snow day. I think it’s no accident that Christmas falls on the turning point of winter, and if you live in a place that gets pretty cold, the holiday tends to be a much-needed reprieve no matter what religion you follow.

          And Ash Wednesday – I can’t speak for any other Christians in the room, but I’m a devoted Roman Catholic who always works on that day.

          1. another Liz*

            I know Christians who stop at church on the way to work, and don’t speak until sundown. So if you ever see someone with a gray cross on their forehead, don’t expect them to speak. Many still work that day, and not all Christians do this.

          3. Another person*

            Yeah, I find that Roman Catholicism at least is pretty flexible with regards to timing for work–we have lots of things like vigil masses if you can’t make it during the day. (My father works a 24/7 staffed job so we went to Vigil masses a lot) and most churches have pre/post-work or lunch masses on Holy Days of Obligation. The only time specific one we did that I remember growing up (and I don’t do this any more) was that on Good Friday my parents had a rule that between 12 and 3 we were supposed to be quietly reflecting, usually ending with a prayer service at 2:30-3, but that’s certainly not required (or even that common?) and is really the only thing I can think of that was ever tied to a certain time of day.

          4. Tillerton*

            If someone is working on Easter Sunday the company will not allow them a religious holiday. Some people at the company do work on Sundays as a regular day.

            If anyone of any other religion asks for a day off they get it with pay and don’t have to take PTO.

            The company is wrong to deny one religion their time off while allowing the rest. You have to allow all of them. It would be wrong to deny any religion.

      2. paul*

        Ramadan isn’t really a holiday/day off; it’s a month of fasting during daylight hours. I kind of suspect that the bigger issue would be allowing them to break their fast pretty promptly.

          1. paul*

            Could be. AFAIK the only universal “holidays” among all the denominations are Eid Al-Fitr and Eid Al-Adha. I was just kind of taken aback at the idea of giving people all of Ramadan off because dang, that’s a month-ish straight.

            2. MassMatt*

              The entire Muslim world works during the month of Ramadan, it is most certainly NOT time off. Basically, people get up early to have breakfast, skip lunch, and don’t eat dinner until after sundown. People can get cranky, but life goes on.

      3. Tillerton*

        If your company excludes some religions from requesting religious holidays but not others, and gives some free days off but makes others use PTO that is discrimination and it is illegal.

        1. Specialk9*

          “If your company gives some free days off but makes others use PTO that is discrimination and it is illegal.”

          I perceive that is how you think the world should work, but it really doesn’t work that way. Like really really doesn’t.

          I’ve never worked anywhere that doesn’t give Christmas off automatically. I have to use my PTO for the Jewish High Holidays.

          It’s the kind of thing that Christians (in the West, where that is dominant) think, without realize how thoroughly the deck is stacked in their favor. But many still get super mad that somewhere there is a kosher kitchen they can’t enter.

          2. Tillerton*

            I agree with you a hundred percent in most cases.

            But in this case, at this company, they are not allowing Christians to take their religious holidays. They can’t asked for religious days off. People who practice all other religions get their days off paid and don’t have to take PTO. That’s not the case for Christians.

            This company is open 364 days a year. Other people get their days and Christians don’t. This company in this specific case is discriminating.

            1. Specialk9*

              Ah, I read the whole thread but got lost in threading. Thanks for explaining that company’s policy.

              1. Tillerton*

                No problem :) and I do agree with your point about non-Christian religions having the deck stacked against them at other places.

    6. Lora*

      Dietary restrictions, shift changes and time off for religious holidays are the only things I’ve been regularly asked for. And when I say dietary restrictions, I mean, “at the off-site team building exercise, can you make sure there will be kosher / halal / particular type of Hindu or Buddhist (basically veggie) options?” Occasionally extra, unpaid vacation time so someone can make a pilgrimage or visit a particular temple, type of thing. The Hasidic / Orthodox Jewish guys were not able to work late Friday, so we made sure someone else was on the schedule. Good non-alcoholic non-caffeinated drinks available for Seventh Day Adventists and Mormons – lots of restaurants and catering places have only soda, alcoholic drinks, coffee or water, which is kinda crummy.

      Even one person asking is enough. Honestly, it’s like this: I enjoy entertaining and throw at least one party per year for a ton of friends, who all have vastly different dietary restrictions and allergies. The easiest thing to do is to serve one meat thing, one chicken thing, and have lots of vegan side dishes. Between potato salad with vinaigrette dressing, bean dip and flatbreads, green leafy salad, sliced fruit, Thai noodles with marinated curry tofu bits and roasted veggie skewers, everyone will find something to eat, even little kids. I make a couple of agua frescas and buy ginger ale for drinks, to which people can add the liquor of their choice if they want.

      This method has worked for many years, with people from all kinds of different cultures and backgrounds all getting together to eat and sit around the patio while the kids splash around the pool. All it requires is actually giving a crap about the people you are hosting, and not being a total a-hole. I get quite tetchy with admins or event organizers who can’t handle this when it is their actual job to do so.

      1. Another person*

        As someone who doesn’t drink much and is sensitive to caffeine, I really wish more people would have good non-alcoholic, non-caffeinated beverages available, especially if it’s an evening event!

    7. Tillerton*

      My current and precious jobs have been at small businesses with only a handful of employees and this has never come up at either place. 2 jobs before my current one I worked in a place where people needing to leave early on Friday were allowed to do so, there was a prayer room and people were given days off for religious holidays without issue.

      That company is no longer around though. They caught major heat for the government because when they allowed people to leave early on Friday for religious reasons, someone from the morning shift would have to cover and work a longer shift. These people were not paid for the extended time (we were hourly) and the people who left early were paid for hours others people worked. The company shut down after paying six figures in back pay to the people they screwed over. So many people lost their jobs because the company messed up.

      1. Observer*

        Your bosses were paying the people who left early for the work being done by the people who covered for them? That’s just bizarre! I could see them not paying the people providing coverage. I’m not defending it at all – I just can see how someone might decide to do something like that if they were a lousy person. But what you are describing is just WEIRD.

        It’s hard to feel too bad for them getting caught and forced to pay people.

        1. Tillerton*

          “I could see them not paying the people providing coverage.”

          That is exactly what happened. The first shift was 8-3:30 and the second was 11-6:30. The shifts were rotational every 3 weeks. People had to rotate shifts and couldn’t just stay on one shift because of health and safety regulations around doing the same job for too long.

          Some people on the first shift had to stay until 6:30 to cover for those who left early on Friday, while those people left at 3:30.

          So some people ended up working 8-6:30 and others 11-3:30 but both were paid for 7 hours. There was lots of anger from the people who got screwed out of pay, towards the people leaving early who were okay with the arrangement and the company for doing it. The company got smackerd so hard by the government they ended up closing.

        2. Natalie*

          Yeah, the problem here isn’t the religious accommodation, the problem is that the company thought they could somehow not pay people for their hours worked. That’s just dumb.

    8. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      I am a part time pastor, so I typically use PTO during the week of Easter, depending on what my “pastoring” schedule looks like. I am private at work about my part time job, so I have never phrased it as, “I need Ash Wednesday and Good Friday off every year because of religious reasons”–although I suppose that I probably could. I just typically ask for the PTO, and its never a problem. I haven’t been denied yet.

    9. Argh!*

      There’s no “majority rules” in accommodation. If one person can’t work on Saturday, and nobody else wants to work on Sunday, they have to get along on Saturday without that one person. The whole point of EEO law is protecting the minority from the majority!

    10. Natalie*

      One that I’m aware of is allowing employees to not handle certain products (pork and alcohol, primarily). I’ve been checked out at my local Target by Muslim employees who have a neighboring cashier swipe and bag the bacon. I’ve heard some people complain vociferously about this type of accommodation or use it as a ridiculous hypothetical, but in my personal experience it’s never taken longer than 5 seconds.

      Holidays off, or the ability to leave early for non-Sunday religious services is also common. My city has a large Somalian-American population, most of whom are Muslim, so some of the schools have changed their standard hours and run longer Monday-Thursday so they can close early on Friday. I imagine an area with a lot of Jewish students might make a similar schedule.

      1. General Ginger*

        As long as the company has enough front end employees working that one can step in and swipe/bag pork or alcohol products, I do not see what issue someone could even have with this. That’s what they already have to do for any cashiers under 18 with alcohol (at least in my state), so it’s not like it’s some kind of outlandish, unheard of practice.

  11. Yep.*

    Today is my last day! I’ve written out a detailed handover and a guide on how to do my role, which I went over with my manager
    I’ve also emailed pretty much everything I had in My Documents. Just need to delete my personal things and my internet history and I’m good to go!

  12. Detective Amy Santiago*

    I finally reached out on Wednesday to the recruiter to follow up on that job. She wrote me back a few hours later and thanked me for following up and apologized for not getting back to me sooner. They did decide to move forward with another candidate, but she assured me that they had nothing but positive feedback about me and would like to stay in touch in case anything else comes up.

    Thank you all for the support while I was going crazy with waiting :)

    1. fposte*

      Sorry about the news, but I’m glad the communication went well and that the connection may pay off over the longer term.

  13. grace*

    We moved into our new office in May, and our walls are still …. white. So, so white.

    How do you decorate your office? I graduated last year so I’ve never had to do this before, and I’m not sure how to walk that line between college ‘string lights’ and professional pictures. ;)

    Also it’s a real office – I have a door to close and share with a co-worker whom I adore, but I don’t have a cube or anything, so I think I’m a bit daunted by the size of the project I’d be taking on!

    1. Matilda Jefferies*

      I face an all-white wall when I’m sitting at my desk. Decorating isn’t really my thing, so I just got a random picture from Bed Bath & Beyond, and hung it up just outside my direct line of sight. It’s just enough to break up the white background in my peripheral vision, which is really all I needed.

      Others will likely have better advice for actual decorating! But in case you need a quick solution while you figure out something bigger and better, this has worked well for me.

      1. Tara*

        Seconding Bed Bath and Beyond. They have some art prints that are nicely framed/mounted, and I think this helps a lot as far as distinguishing an “office vibe” from a “dorm room” vibe.

      2. Specialk9*

        My office is fairly dire – poop brown thin carpet, scuffed white walls.

        For decoration I:
        *Snagged a fake fern from someone who left
        *Covered the inside back walls of an awful beige bookshelf with leftover grey and white striped wrapping paper (shockingly elevates the whole place without being over the top)
        *Brought in two small lamps from home
        *Hung stretched canvas photos my dad took (the canvas makes them light and portable and easy to hang, but looks nicer than a poster)
        *Put down a small area throw rug

    2. Snark*

      I ended up putting up vintage-style WPA national parks posters and nature photography (including a gorgeous shot of the Bears Ears) – I’m an environmental scientist and public lands advocate, so it’s appropriate, it’s not as dumb as successories, and it introduces some color to an otherwise relentlessly gray environment.

      I’d recommend some lights to take the edge off the fluorescents, some plants (succulents do great!) for color and visual interest, maybe a throw rug or small carpet.

      1. fposte*

        Is that a typo, or is “successories” a sniglet for the crap the previous occupant left in the office?

        1. Snark*

          No, it’s the brand name for those annoying posters that are like, a lighthouse, with a caption like “CUSTOMER SERVICE” and some dorky inspirational saying.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          Google “successories.” You’ve seen them before, you just didn’t know what they were called. (And then google “demotivational posters” because they’re better.)

          2. fposte*

            Oh, God, those. I like my interpretation better.

            Well, I learned a new word, but I can’t say I like it.

            1. Snark*

              I prefer your sniglet, too. There really needs to be a name for previous-occupant cruft. Although once, I inherited a perfectly functional espresso machine that way!

          3. Elizabeth West*

            Haha, I love those. We thought about sneaking them into the frames once at OldExjob (they had several of the sappy versions around) and seeing how long it took the bosses to notice, but we chickened out.

            1. Emalia*

              A friend of mine purchased a couple of posters with her office decorating budget. Supervisor had a convo with her about her choices…

        3. Mary (in PA)*

          I read it to mean things like motivational posters…you know, the kind with large-print single words and vaguely inspiring sayings below sharply focused landscape photos.

          (One time I had a boss who had a poster in his office that looked like that, but instead said, “Get to Work – You’re not being paid to believe in the power of your dreams”.)

          1. Snark*

            The demotivational posters are kind of funny, but that strikes me as punch-downy in a way that I’m not a fan of.

            1. Mary (in PA)*

              Yeah, it was not a great place to work. That poster was one of the more mild things, which should give you some idea.

      2. grace*

        I LOVE these! My manager jokes about putting them up when we get frustrated with so many white walls, but I doubt it’ll ever happen except in individual offices ;-)

    3. [insert witty user name here]*

      Unless you’re in a creative field (art, fashion, interior design, etc), realistic decoration means a few personal photos on your desk and maybe a couple other small items. Decorating an office is not really a “project.” If you have a window, consider getting a nice indoor plant that can grow to cover some blank space.

      1. always in email jail*

        Agree, shouldn’t be a huge project. It’s an office, not a dorm room. Look at what the higher-ups do with theirs and take your cues from them.

      2. Natalie*

        If you like plants you can probably have them regardless of whether or not you have a window! There are low light varieties, and plenty of plants love fluorescent lights.

        1. As Close As Breakfast*

          Yeah, I have a golden pothos and peace lily that both did amazing in 100% fluorescent lights for at least 2 years. My office now has a huge window and they are admittedly doing even better, but they still rocked it in the fluorescent light!

    4. Amber O.*

      I’d check pinterest for professional office decor ideas and themes that fit your own style, then go to your nearest TJ Maxx/Marshalls to find items that fit the aesthetic you’re going for and you wont break the bank. Or if you want to start off small, a couple of photos/pieces of art and some coordinating desk accessories can really perk things up.

    5. always in email jail*

      I have a lamp on my desk I use and generally keep the overhead lighting off, which I commonly see in many offices. I also have framed photographs (of bioterrorism agents up close under a microscope, it’s relevant to my job) grouped on the wall, and one tasteful picture frame with a picture of my family on my desk. I like the suggestion of succulents, but I’m a plant-killer so I haven’t tried it. I would certainly err on the side of under-decorating rather than over-decorating until you get a feel for your office norms in the new building.

      1. always in email jail*

        I also have work-related books from my personal collection on my bookshelf, and coffee mugs from partner government organizations or trainings I’ve attended. So “accessories” but all work-related.

      2. Specialk9*

        Plastic succulents are great for those of us who even kill cacti. They look realistic, and cool.

    6. MilkMoon (UK)*

      Plants and softer lighting (lamps etc) for sure.

      As for the walls, if they can’t actually be painted, you could go with large artworks. You could paint your own and frame them or use large canvasses, you could even get some beautiful fabrics from a haberdashery and frame them or staple them over canvasses – fabric would have even more of a softening effect on the space.

    7. DD*

      Do you *want* to decorate your office? You don’t have to, if you don’t feel like it, unless you receive visitors at your office and need it to look nice.

      I have a couple of lamps and a small plant, but that’s really about it. Call me a pessimist, but the less stuff I have at work, the easier it’ll be when I walk out. I do have tons of cat pictures that rotate through my desktop background, though. :P

      1. grace*

        No, I do! We get visitors from the home office and they all comment on it; it’s very bland and boring, and frankly I’m tired of staring at white walls, too, haha. I’d offered to take it on as a project for the year when things were busy, but I just signed for a new apartment (my first solo!!) and now I have to decorate that too, and this is taking a backseat … but when I’m ready to get back to it, I want to have things planned out.

      2. LilySparrow*

        Paradoxically, spending a bit of time & thought (not a lot) making my office more pleasant gave me the mental energy to gear up and leave a soul-sucking job.
        I’m not sure whether it was the extra comfort, a sense of control, or what. But it was much less draining, so I had margin to make other changes.

    8. Triumphant Fox*

      I’m in a new office and haven’t begun the full-scale decorating yet. My first purchase was a lamp and I think I may get a couple more of varying sizes. I have brought in a few decorative trays, a picture in frame and food necessities so far. I have two main large wall spaces that need to be filled with something and I keep waffling about what to do. I’m an artist on the side, so I want to paint something, but I also have a million projects that I want to work on at home. If you want large-scale art on your walls, I highly recommend buying poster-sized pieces from artists you enjoy. Photography can work great in office spaces and I think the scale often really works. In my home and my art I use a lot of color and my art has an illustration style that would lend itself to children’s books, so I’m self-conscious about making my work space look a little more sophisticated, while still being bright and bold.

      After using the space a bit, my top priorities are:
      – Organizational items (pen cup – I find them all too tall because they’re meant to hold pencils, letter tray, monitor stand)
      – Mousepad/wrist support
      – New Calendar – I got a free wall one from work but it’s not the prettiest
      – A coat rack or hook or something – I feel like my coat looks so slovenly dropped in the side chair I have
      – Lamps (my first one was top priority, but I figure I can fill my space with light gradually)
      – Large-scale wall art or gallery art (I may just hang a few of my prints in the meantime).
      – Plants (There is a fake one in my office that I may quietly move to a common area, or pretend is pretty – is it’s not the worst of fake plants, but also not the best)
      – Rugs – ideally two (my office is L-shaped) for the entrance in front of my desk and the space between my sitting and standing desk

    9. Mary (in PA)*

      And to give you a real reply, I also got some neat vintage WPA-style posters from Anderson Design Group – I put up one from Denver and one from Pittsburgh, because those are the places where I have lived the longest. I have personal photos and some fun desk accessories, too (I found hippo bookends on Etsy). Plus all the functional things, like an inbox, some under-desk storage, and a free-standing bookcase. Plus all of the furniture is white, which makes it look coordinated.

    10. CleverGirl*

      I put up string lights in my office for Christmas and then never took them down. It’s fine. I don’t think I’m being judged or giving off a dorm vibe. I think a lot of it depends on the overall atmosphere in your office / at your organization.

    12. Delphine*

      In my office, people have plants and large posters/framed art on the wall. We work in publishing, so there are a lot of bookshelves, and people put knickknacks on those. Definitely take cues from your colleagues. My cubicle-dwelling coworkers tend to be more casual with their decorations, since they don’t have walls to put up large pieces. My office-dwelling coworkers put up photos and artwork. Whiteboards are also popular and useful, and we all have large wall calendars.

    13. Dr. KMnO4*

      I’m a faculty person so I probably have more flexibility around this than most people. I have a movie-related calendar, miniature versions of my research posters from graduate school, a family photo, a sizeable whiteboard, and a “W” flag on the wall facing my desk. (go Cubs!).

    14. Llama Wrangler*

      This is more of an anecdote than a genuine suggestion, but my friend worked in a similar space, and he happened upon a collection of huge yarn tapestries from a thrift store. He bought the whole lot (it turns out it was a woman/artist’s life’s work) and that was their decoration for the next few years until they moved offices. Simple, unique, and cheap.

    15. Natalie*

      I don’t think you have to do too much, unless you like decorating.

      Plants: You could either have a lot of them (particularly if you are a plant person) or just one big one. If your company leases plants, consider asking if you can just add a plant to the lease. Then you don’t have to take care of it.

      Wall art: the best way to differentiate a poster or print from a college dorm look is to frame it. You can find tons of simple frames in standard sizes online, or if you need an oddball size there are some “make-a-size” frame options.

      Calendar: Even if you don’t use a calendar, they are nice and colorful and an expected thing to find in an office. Also since it’s January they’re all half off.

    16. tink*

      It really depends on your office! My partner hangs up some of our sports memorabilia (nothing expensive/priceless, but things like a rally towel from NHL playoffs or a mini scarf for the MLS team we support), but he’s also got some fun prints and posters. He works in a really casual IT environment, though. My office doesn’t have walls, so most of my coworkers have a few pictures or knick-knacks on their desks. (I have nothing because I just started and don’t have much of those things to bring in.)

    17. LilySparrow*

      I don’t believe in the “powers” attributed to Feng shui, but I have found that following the principles creates a pleasing space. In my last office, I hung a large art canvas with an abstract depiction of a waterfall, added some potted orchids by the window, and arranged the furniture to have a good “flow.”
      Made a world of difference with very little effort.

    18. Chaordic One*

      At my second to last employer we pretty much all displayed posters that were created by our marketing department. They were mostly all pleasant landscapey things related to our products, sometimes with fit, handsome, smiling young people in the corners, so no one really thinks about them very much.

      In my current job I bought some inexpensive color prints from the clearance sale section of “AllPosters.” I bought a couple of 1930s style posters of nearby national parks and a print of “Trees and Undergrowth” by Van Gogh. (I think it makes my office look a bit like being in a forest.)

      I sometimes wish I had something like that nasty print Peggy Olson inherited on “Mad Men.”

    19. Deus Cee*

      I have two noticeboards and a whiteboard for working on, which leaves very little bare wall to decorate. However, I love me some nice arts, so I do stick up nice pictures. If they’re going to stay a while then I’ll frame them (IKEA is cheap enough) – and I use Command Damage-free Hanging to put things up without having to drill holes. I’d second the pot plants if you’re able (we’re not, conservators won’t let us) – UX studies in academic libraries have shown that they make an environment more welcoming and appealing. But all this is entirely up to you. My decoration has been organic – little touches as and when I need them.

  14. Zip Silver*

    I had one of my best employees limit her availability to only 1 day per week. Letting her go today, but I don’t feel great about it because she’s performed well, but 20% availability doesn’t make business sense, especially because her benefits status won’t change until 2019, and paying full time benefits for a part timer is expensive.

    1. Matilda Jefferies*

      Oh, that’s tough. I hope it frees both of you up to find something that’s a better fit, after the sucky firing part that is. Good luck!

    3. WellRed*

      She can’t possibly have expected going (from I assume full time) down to 1 day per week would fly?

    4. Rookie Manager*

      I had one of my team do that last year, to show good will we trialled it for a couple of months and it was hopeless. You’ve done the right thing.

    5. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      That’s a tough situation. On the plus side,
      You let her go because she isn’t a good fit anymore. So she didn’t leave without another job, her job requirements changed.
      She is easily eligible for unemployment.
      So, bummer you lost a good employee, but it sounds like she needed to go for herself ultimately.

    6. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      Question:
      can you explain the benefits situation to me?
      I thought that you got a job and it came with X benefits. If that job changes, specifically decreasing hours, and you are no longer full time, don’t benefits change at the same time?
      Plus, even the benefits I renewed in October are only valid for one year.
      thanks!

      1. Zip Silver*

        Yep, she rolled into 2018 with full time stays, and it doesn’t get dropped down to part-time, for benefits, until January 1st, 2019. Weird quirk of our HR department, but we’re a Megacorp and I have no say in it.

  15. President Porpoise*

    Does anyone know how to chart cycle time vs transaction complexity to get an idea of employee productivity using excel?

    1. The Tin Man*

      I’m not 100% sure of what you’re asking for, but if you e-mail me at thespreadsheetfixer at gmail dot com I can see if I can help. Do you have a table with the info to chart or do you need to build everything from scratch?

  16. Matilda Jefferies*

    People whose job is essentially to sit at a desk and Think About Things, what’s a reasonable ratio of work to non-work time when you’re in the office? I know that the expectation isn’t 100% working while you’re at your desk (like it would be if you worked in a factory, for example), but I’m having trouble calibrating what a “normal” workday looks like for office workers.

    The back story is that several years ago, mental health and external factors led my productivity to drop significantly. “I’ll just check the internet quickly” led to an hour lost on a blog or whatever, and that led to more hours, to the point that I could go entire days without doing any work at all. (No judgement about this, please! I’m not proud of it, but I’ve finally reached a point that I’m ready and able to do something about it. I’m looking for “where do I go from here?” not “how could you do such a thing?”)

    So. I work in an office, roughly 9-5, with no evenings or weekends. Most of my job is analytical, and reasonably self-directed. As I said above, I know that some personal time is allowed when I’m here, and I assume that most office workers are not 100% “on” for their whole work day. I also know that it varies wildly by field, and by your manager, and all sorts of things. But somewhere in all that, somewhere between 0 hours and 8 hours, is a “reasonable” or “average” or “expected” amount of time that one should be actually working. I can’t ask my manager, obviously, so I’m hoping that the mostly anonymous people of AAM can help me out!

    1. Not My Usual Name*

      I don’t have good advice, I just want to say that I am also guilty of this sometimes. Lately, A LOT more than I would like…I’ve wanted to ask a similar question about “Where do I go from here?” but I feel so embarrassed!

    2. misspiggy*

      I think it’s all about output. Look at what measurable outputs you were previously able to produce in a week, or a month or a year. If you can still generate that, the question of how many hours you’re focused on work is less important. For me it’s about what kind of pattern you need to be productive and healthy. Do you need more interaction with people, for example? Or are you more productive doing lots of short stints broken by Internet browsing? How often should you get up and do something physical? What are your most productive times of day analysis-wise, and can you do something else in the least productive times?

      1. London Bookworm*

        Exactly. Different people are different, too. Some people manage to juggle frequent breaks, whereas others may have fewer but longer breaks. Also, some people are impressively able to focus for long periods of time without such breaks.

        I think if there’s a way you can look at high-performers at your company and what sort of outcomes they have, that’s a good starting point.

        1. Matilda Jefferies*

          Thank you both – focusing on outcomes is a good idea. I don’t know if I’ll be able to do a direct comparison between myself and my (one!) peer at my company, but I can certainly do it for my own outputs, year over year. Then if 2018 me is better than 2017 me, I can figure out how much better, and what (if anything) I need to do to make 2019 me even better. Thanks for helping me talk through this!

          1. London Bookworm*

            I think that’s a great way to do it. Personally, I find it helpful to break down outcomes as much as possible so I can get a sense of what I should be accomplishing on a day by day basis.

            I also freely “cheat” my willpower and use tools such as Freedom or Stayfocused to keep me off certain time-sucking websites. I definitely don’t think you should beat yourself up – this is a common problem!

      2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        This. Even if your job doesn’t officially track productivity metrics, create some for yourself.

        One helpful thing might be to keep a detailed time diary for a couple days. It’s really annoying to do, but it’s also a great way to really make yourself take a look at what you’re doing over the course of a day, and figure out what actual workload you have and how much time you spend on it.

      3. Specialk9*

        Yeah, look at output. I’m a work sprinter, and damn I’m productive and energized when sprinting. But a job that requires a long slow slog makes me drained and dumb. I can apply crazy amounts of intensity, but only if I can wind down too. My output is unusually high, so my bosses tend not to look over my shoulder much.

    3. London Bookworm*

      I think it’s a hard question to answer without knowing more about your work and expectations, particularly since this answer will vary a lot based on industry, job, and office culture. Is there a way you compare your outcomes to that of your peers?

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        That’s the problem – I don’t want to ask anyone in my office, for fear of giving the game away! So the people who know best what this should look like are the exact people I don’t want to ask. And the people I could ask – my therapist, for example – don’t necessarily know, because their work days are structured so differently.

        It’s further complicated by the fact that my manager really doesn’t like managing, and she has let me skate by for all these years either because she hasn’t noticed or because she isn’t bothered by it. But *I’m* bothered by it – I’m a mid-career professional, and I know I can do better, but I don’t know what “better” looks like.

        1. Triumphant Fox*

          It also may genuinely be that her expectations are less than what you have for yourself. Last week, my manager gave me a list of priorities and I made a big dent in it over the course of the week. When I sent him my progress on Friday, he was like,”…That was a 6 month list. Don’t feel like you have to do everything at once!”
          She’s kept you around because she’s reasonably satisfied with your job so far, but if you want to ramp it up – I think working for 15 minutes, then taking a 5 minute break, or a half hour and taking five minutes, or whatever is a great place to start and then increase your focus time. Having a list of priorities/goals can help as well.

        2. The New Wanderer*

          I’ve had the same experience, as most of my previous job was thought-based rather than deliverable-based. I’ve asked for more work or asked why I wasn’t added to a project and heard that I already have enough on my plate. No, no I didn’t! I could never convince anyone of that though because there were times (few and far between) that I would be working at max capacity. The rest of the time I would have periods of real focus and productivity, for hours at a time, but when I finished the report or the background reading or the planning there would be nothing to do.

          I just rolled with it. I figured the down time kept me from burn out and looking forward to the next chunk of work, and in the meantime I jumped on any assignment that was offered.

    4. Yorick*

      In the morning, plan what you want to accomplish during the day. Try to keep track of how much time you spend working toward those daily goals. If it’s only like half the day, start making the goals larger or having more of them.

    5. Very Distracted Anon*

      Are you me? This is something that I’ve been struggling with… some times I’ll have stretches that I think are really unusual of not doing work because of my anxiety issues leading me to squander time on the internet…

      Something that’s helped me but isn’t perfect is a) seeing a therapist for constructive tips b) the blacklist add on for chrome so I can block my most frequented time wasting sites c) or disabling chrome so I’m FORCED to use internet explorer which is very slow and not conducive to non work purposes.

      Those haven’t been foolproof but definitely help. Site blockers are helpful because sometimes it’s so automatic for me to go to a non work site that it’s ingrained in my brain, and I don’t even realize I’m doing it. Now I know that I’ll just be typing ask a manager or twitter out of nowhere and it’ll pop up blocked and I’ll be like wow! Oops! And try and refocus.

    6. strawberries and raspberries*

      I sometimes find myself in the same position when I’ve a) finished everything I had to do or b) delegated it all out (something I’ve been encouraged to do in performance reviews). Since successfully using the mindmap technique for a research paper and then getting a Passion Planner (which I found out about thanks to this website!), I’m obsessed with mindmaps- often if I’m sitting at my desk bored I’ll mindmap an upcoming project and doodle a whole bunch. I’ve actually come up with great ideas for upcoming events this way, and because they’re not things that have to happen like tomorrow, it allows me to then come up with an event plan, which does take considerably more work. I’m also in a unique position in which because we’re a workforce development program, my AAM reading is actually professional development for my staff and all of our stakeholders, so it benefits me to read the open threads in full or look at the tags to get specific information for different people. My direct supervisor is also extremely hands-off and knows my work is high-quality and produced on time regardless of whether or not it’s urgent, so I feel a little less guilty about some of the downtime.

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        I am a recent Passion Planner/ mind map convert as well, also thanks to a recommendation from this site! In fact, I just now did a mind map called “Why don’t I complete my to-do lists?” with a bunch of reasons and strategies for mitigating them. I am a work in progress!

        1. strawberries and raspberries*

          Dude- I love my Passion Planner so much. I got one for my fiance for Christmas after I got mine, and then one of my new direct reports got one for herself because I kept talking about it. I put in every single work and personal thing, even working out and taking baths and packing lunch, and I feel like my anxiety has dropped like eleventy points.

    7. CM*

      I posted an Ask Metafilter question about this a few years back! Most people confessed that they were about 60% productive.

      Personally, I used to worry more about this, but now I don’t. Some days I’m like a work machine, other days I struggle to check anything off my list. Overall, I’m getting my work done and people are satisfied with my performance so I just do the best I can. On less productive days I take walks and talk to people and make lists to help me recharge a bit. On more productive days I lean into it and abandon any plans that aren’t focused on getting stuff done.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        I feel like any time you ask a bunch of people on the internet, you will find a bunch of people who are the same. I mean, we all have time (“have time”) to read this!

        I think I’m a fairly efficient worker, so on my best days/weeks/months I get done as much as anyone could, but still have a fair amount of time to screw around. On my worst days, I never open a single document all day.

    8. NoName*

      I’m climbing that hill myself right now. What has really helped me:
      -Setting up a list in OneNote of projects I’m working on and what their deadlines are/priority ranking if there isn’t really a deadline
      -Having that list open to the side of my screen always
      -Have a OneNote page for each project, listing to-do tasks, next steps, relevant notes, etc. I also track how much (solid working) time I spend on each project.

      I define “project” as any task that isn’t purely administrative (like filling out expense reports is administrative; it’s incidental to my actual work) and that isn’t in the “answer my emails” type of routine work category.

      This approach has helped reduce the amount of times I say, “oh no, I have to make a decision on what to do next, that’s hard, I’ll just pop over here to this website for a quick break…” It has also helped me see when I AM productive so I can pat myself on the back.

      As a bonus, I now know have a record of how long it takes me to do things. This is useful since I have a lot of projects that recur or get updated on a yearly basis.

    9. Stef*

      Interesting – I just had to do such calculations for my entire team because we are understaffed and needed to make sure there were no people underworked while other are definitely overworked.
      Provided it varies from company to company, industry to industry, and what you mean with “non-work time”, this is what we came up with (we bill clients for our services, so that’s important in our industry): 85% of “billed client time” for the team and 75% for line managers. The rest is not “not-work”, but it includes some research time & training, administration time for timesheets and such (higher for line-managers), 1:1s, birthdays, leaving do’s, team meetings (we have a lot of banter there) and other team building activities. I would not like to know anyone in my team is slacking for hours or days on end, but if you don’t have a full plate, you are entitled to a bit of down time here and there.

    10. Samiratou*

      Not sure if this helps or not, but Agile methodology uses a general figure of 6 hours per day when estimating capacity, to account for things like meetings, bathroom breaks, etc.

      For me, that seems about right on average. There are times when I’m nose-deep in things and barely come up for air, other days when queries are taking forever or my eyes just can’t seem to focus where there might be a little more time on AAM or whatever.

    11. JC*

      Like many others, I sympathize! I’ve had jobs where I could get what I needed to do done in less than two hours per day. It’s hard not to coast in that situation.

      Right now I’m in a job that’s extremely unsupervised, so I’ve been forced to hold myself accountable. Honestly, I don’t think there would be immediate repercussions if I slacked off for most of the day on any given day, so it’s been a good exercise to identify what kind of worker/person I want to be and how I can be productive when my only motivation is coming from within. What’s been working best for me is making a concrete to-do list at the beginning of the day with tasks separated into as much detail as possible. So rather than “work on Project X”, I’ll write separate items for “create blank PowerPoint doc for Project X”, “spend 15 minutes researching aspect Z of Project X”, etc. That way I get to check a ton of things off my to-do list (which I find totally motivating) and any time I need a quick change of pace, I have a bunch of little things I can do without floating over to the internet.

      This thread is so helpful and comforting. I bet you’ve increased others’ general productivity so much just by posting it that you’ve earned the rest of the day off.

    12. sunshyne84*

      I’m so guilty. No judgment here! Music helps me be more productive. Once I get a good playlist going I can get so much done and quickly. Or you can give yourself deadlines for how much to have done by lunch or the end of each day.

    13. A Non E. Mouse*

      It ebbs and flows – there are weeks on end that I can’t get it all done despite concentrating all day…and then some weeks I have to force myself to focus.

      I’d say 4 to 6 hours of “0n” time a day on average, with the other 2 to 4 being either admin (meaning: mind-numbing) work or “waiting” – either literally waiting for someone to finish something, struggling through meetings, etc.

      When I get in the middle of a busy period where I *should* be on 6 to 8 hours a day but just cannot muster it, I will pull back and find some administrative tasks that are a little dull that need doing. Going through my files, clearing out email and making a list of crap I need to do, cleaning the server room, etc.

      Those items do provide value to the company. Not as much as my brain, but if I just can’t think, I at least keep my hands busy. Sometimes a day of this type of work allows a kind of reset and it’s back to the races.

      Also, keep some websites handy that relate to your job field. I’m a geek so I can read articles about cool new tech, industry items, etc. and not feel too guilty about it. Sometimes I can read an article while taking a brain break and then two weeks later, that “brain break” information comes in handy while I’m in a meeting or trying to solve a puzzle.

      Finally, I’m exempt so if I just have a bad week and work has piled up, I will come in on a weekend, work a couple of hours in the silence (which is way more productive than regular work time), and consider it a wash.

    14. periwinkle*

      It really depends on what Things I am currently called upon to Think About! I have two huge projects with no real connection between them. Project A is more of a consulting Thing where I’m advising another function on how to change something; my tangible work is minimal, since they control the actual deliverables. I think, then I meet with them, then come back to the next meeting with ideas and perspectives from my field, and so on into infinity (or so it feels sometimes). Project B is more active with a lot of writing to go with the thinking (developing a new set of processes for our function). If I’m working on A, my mind is working but I might just be sitting and staring at a bunch of PowerPoint charts. On B, I’m sitting and staring less, furiously typing a lot more. But depending on the rhythm of the projects, I could be working the brain hard for 10 hours this Thursday and reading AAM for four hours the next Thursday.

      That’s just the nature of this kind of work. I set lots of Outlook reminders to do quick tasks that break up my day and force me to be more productive. Otherwise, it would be AAM 10 hours a day every day…

    15. Stormy*

      Heartily agree with others that it’s about meeting your deliverables. Some days don’t lend themselves to the long stretches of intense concentration I need to do certain tasks. If I take a bit of downtime to unclog my brain, I’ll log in at night to make up that ground. Think about your mean over a longer stretch of time. If your overall goals are being met, you’re likely okay.

      I also set aside some particularly fun or particularly rote tasks, to serve as “junk food” when I’m so frazzled that I can’t wrap my head around a more complicated task.

    16. Not So NewReader*

      It sounds like your job demands original ideas or semi-original ideas.

      Years ago, before the internet, my father worked as a designer. I remember him saying that some days he spent the bulk of the day starring off into space. That is the way he appeared. Actually he was lost in thought. He said the boss never once questioned it.
      A few things strike me here. The top thing is that I am sure when people sat down to talk with my father about Current Project, there was NO doubt in their mind that he had been working on by thinking about it. The thoughtfulness and thoroughness of his questions and his responses clearly showed that he had been working on the Current Project.
      The other give away is might be what is on your desk, what types of information you are looking for and the nature of your concerns. (Are your concerns superficial or do you have an explanation that goes along with the stated concern?) We are all fairly transparent to each other. As a simple example, I have lived in my house for decades. If I hire a new contractor he is probably not going to be able to snow me with poorly thought out ideas because I KNOW my house. If he suggests poorly thought out Idea A, I am going to quickly come back with what about Added Wrinkles X, Y and Z? In that moment he will know that I realize he did not think it through that much.

    17. Optimistic Prime*

      I ended up installing LeechBlock on my main browser to block the sites I wasted the most time on during work hours.

      I’d say for me it varies…it depends on the day. Some days things are slow and other days I really can’t spare the time. Actually, I usually base how much time I spend working in a day on how much is on my to-do list, when they’re done, and how much time they’re each going to take.

      Me, I’m probably *actually* productive about 5-6 hours a day, I’d guess. If you strip out lunch, checking email, doing administrative things, travel, etc.

      1. Optimistic Prime*

        ^On an ideal day, that is. I’ve definitely been known to waste large amounts of work time on the Internet, so no judgment there lol.

  17. Audiophile*

    Happy Friday!

    I’m quickly coming up on my one year anniversary. Boy that year flew by!

    I’m torn about staying put, because my role has changed a lot, but there’s been no mention of a title change or a raise. Any tips on how I can raise this issue?

    1. AnonyMouse*

      I’m in a similar situation as you, but I’m still a few months away from my work anniversary. Also just went through a major role shift. I don’t have a ton of advice, because I’ve basically decided that I’m probably going to begin job searching at the end of the calendar year. A lot of it has to do with how the role changes played out in my organization. Just not sure if this is the right fit for me anymore :( Just wanted to send the message that I know how you feel, it’s a lot to consider.

    3. Green Goose*

      The same thing happened to me, and I had to bring it up with my manager even though it was uncomfortable. My team went from 2 to 1, and I phrased it as a question of interim work. “With Fergus leaving and me taking over x, y, and z, will I be covering these duties for an interim or are my permanent duties changing?” If they say that your permanent duties are increasing you should use that as a segway to determine if your title should change.

  18. KTM*

    I’m going on my first international trip to China in a few months for work! I’m a seasoned US domestic traveler but I’ve done only a couple international flights before to Europe. Any travel tips or tricks for international flights? I already have Global Entry. Flying out of the southwest (likely through LAX or SFO).

    1. Snark*

      That’s a long flight. I’d recommend wearing some comfortable, stretchy clothing, with layers to adjust for the temperature. I like slip-on Vans because they’re not as restrictive on your feet, which will swell. Airline food is excessively salted, because the cabin pressure and humidity tend to deaden your sense of taste. I felt awful after flying until I realized it was the salty food. I generally throw some protein bars, dried fruit, and nuts in my bag and decline the food. Bring an (empty) water bottle so you can keep hydrated. I also recommend standing, stretching, doing squats, etc so your metabolism doesn’t crater and to keep circulation going. Hope for one of the new 787 airliners, they’re comfy and the windows are gigantic.

      I generally try to take an ambien to sync as best I can with local time, but that’s not always possible. Your flight from LAX/SFO will generally leave around 11pm-1am, so if you can power through the first eight hours of the flight , that may reduce jet lag.

      1. Specialk9*

        Yeah, after one flight to China, my legs both swelled enough to need emergency scoping. (They were fine, no blood clots!)

        I recommend compression socks for edema – there are some cute patterns these days.

        Bring an empty water bottle and drink a lot. (Bonus, going to and from bathroom lets stretch your legs a bit.)

        If you’re tall and in coach, I’m sorry. :( Sometimes you get lucky and the flight isn’t full, and you get a whole row and can stretch out. Sometimes every seat is full.

    2. Pollygrammer*

      You said “flying out of the southwest” and I read “flying out ON Southwest” and I thought, I don’t think Southwest is going to get you to China. :)

      Make sure you move around as much as possible (not just for comfort, but for safety), keep hydrated, keep lotion’d if you’re a lotion type, do your best to move to your new sleep schedule as quickly as possible. (But DON’T knock yourself out completely on a flight, moving around every now and then is really important.)

      Stuff You Should Know has a really interesting podcast on jet lag, if you’re interested in learning how it actually works.

      1. KTM*

        Haha I am a super-Southwest-loyalist so I might fly to China on them if I could! I will be actively making sure I’m stretching during the flight as I have been coming back from a neck disk injury for the past year and sitting still for long periods of time is a major no-no if I want to be semi-pain-free for the next week. I’ll check out the podcast thanks.

    3. Sara*

      I usually take Dramamine on long flights, not necessarily for the motion sickness (though that’s a small part) but because it makes me drowsy but not sleeping-pill drowsy. I get groggy on sleeping pills and dealing with a new country isn’t great in that haze.

    4. CAA*

      In China, you should not drink the tap water. Bring a refillable water bottle that you can use while traveling and working. There are bottle filling stations in the airports and most likely in your office. Your hotel will provide bottled water for drinking and brushing your teeth.

      Once there, jet lag is your worst enemy. They’re 16 hours ahead of the west coast right now, and your energy will likely crash in the middle of the afternoons. For me, day 2 is always the worst and I try not to schedule any important meetings after 3 PM or a team dinner on that day. I’m still tired on days 3 and 4, but it’s not nearly as bad as day 2.

      1. Engineer Woman*

        Me too! Lots of people think your first day there is the worst but I think adrenaline keeps you going but then Day 2 is the worst.

        If you have any control over your schedule, try to keep Day 2 lighter.

    5. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      If your employer isn’t already flying you business class, advocate hard for business class. It makes all the difference! Also, if you can, pick a good airline. Korean Air is highly recommended for Pacific-area travel, and I can confirm their business class is excellent.

      Fly comfy. When I flew to the Philippines for work, I went in black yoga pants and a tunic top, dressed up with a waist belt I could easily take off and put in my purse. The combo looked more professional than it was (the yoga pants easily passed for skinny-style slacks with the waistband covered, and the tunic was blouse-style) and essentially felt like flying in PJs. A long time on a plane is a long time. My flight was in 2 legs, 14 hours from DC to Seoul, then 4 hours from Seoul to Manila. Well before the 14 hours was up, my sense of time was lost and I felt like I had always been on the plane and would always be on the plane.

      Pack at least two bags: one large one with most of your clothes, and then a smaller day bag with toiletries, pyjamas, the stuff that you will want the moment you get to your accommodation. That way you can just toss your big suitcase in a corner and not deal with it immediately.

      It’s way easier to find plug adapters that don’t also adapt current than ones that do both, so bring a power strip that can handle the current adjustment and just get a smaller adapter. The power strip will be more useful on an ongoing basis.

      Carry wet wipes with you. You will thank yourself later.

      If you take medication, bring extra. If you have to, call your insurer to ask them to authorize an early refill. And pack it separately — ie one set in your personal bag that you carry on, one set in your luggage.

      1. Snark*

        YES on the wet wipes. Scrubbing down your face, hands, and the back of your neck instantly makes you feel about 900 times fresher and cleaner, and you feel gross as hell after sitting down for 13 hours.

        I’ve also had nice flights on JAL and Cathay Pacific, though the latter has gotten less swanky. Absolutely advocate for business class.

      2. Cuddles Chatterji*

        Seconding Korean Air! And if you have to do layovers in China, be sure to research recommended transfer times. Some connections can get really tight due to Chinese security and baggage policies, and if something goes amiss and you overstay the allowed XX visa-free transfer hours, you risk deportation. (I read so many horror stories on China Eastern airline reviews…)

      3. KTM*

        I love the wet wipes idea!! I use them all the time for camping… and come to think of it, a 15hr flight is kind of like camping haha. I looked at business class but at least from what I saw the price difference was thousands of dollars… I don’t think I’ll get it approved unfortunately.

        1. Specialk9*

          Oh, if the seats have built in chargers, check that they actually are charging. I drained all my batteries that way. Argh. (Carry several lipstick chargers.)

    6. Buffy*

      You can now download movies and shows from Netflix to watch when you don’t have an internet connection if that helps. My husband makes a yearly work trip to Asia and that’s a must for him.

      1. KTM*

        Yes I was really excited to see that – I’ve been using it for domestic flights. Previously I just used Amazon but there wasn’t a good way to search for downloadable content. I love that Netflix has a category for ‘things you can download’

    7. MENA Traveler*

      I’ve never had to go as far as China but I’ve done a lot of travel to the Middle East (longest trip was to Oman, 2 9-hour legs) and here’s what makes it bearable for me:
      1) Get a nice neck/travel pillow – I have a memory foam one that takes up more space than one that can be inflated, but it’s so much more comfortable. I also bring a pashmina or two that can serve as a scarf, a blanket, or a pillow, but that one’s less essential.
      2) Portable chargers make such a difference, especially since many international airports don’t have charging stations like ones in the US do. There are small ones that hold one charge and larger ones that hold 3-5, either can be nice depending on what you’re looking for.
      3) Everyone has different preferences here but I try to get a window seat if at all possible – it’s so much easier to sleep when you have a surface to lean on (and no one’s waking you up to go to the bathroom).
      Hope this is helpful!

      1. BF*

        Check with the airline about portable chargers. I flew on Emerits. Last month and portable chargers were only allowed in the checked luggage

    9. Midwest Marketer*

      Agree with all about the water and comfortable clothing. I didn’t see if it was mentioned, but compression socks might also be helpful for swelling and circulation.

      I sometimes bring sheet masks on longer flights and use one of those since the air is so incredibly dry. You might look a little silly but it really helps your skin!

    10. Steff*

      I just took my first trip to China over the holidays. My biggest advice is try not to sleep the night before your flight. If you have to sleep intentionally make yourself get up way earlier than you normally do. This allowed me to sleep on the first part of my flight and then be awake for the last half. Based on my flight timing I landed in China, ate dinner, forced myself to stay awake until 9/10PM local time and passed out. I barely had any jet lag just a bit of drowsiness that hit at what would have been my normal bed time at home.

      Something to note about China, for as you’re flying home, any portable chargers need to have the amps/watts on it. If it doesn’t they confiscate it. I lost my small travel charger that way.

    11. Nye*

      Interested to follow this thread since I’m also traveling to China for the first time in a few months (for a conference). If anyone has specific suggestions on how to navigate culturally and not come off as a rude American, please share them!

    12. tab*

      I flew to Sydney from Atlanta last summer, and two things helped me. I took Benedryl with my meal to help me sleep. I had a bulkhead row in Comfort Plus seating, so I put my large bag against the bulkhead and used it for a foot rest. Having my feet up helped me sleep. I actually saw one passenger who traveled with a plastic folding step stool to use as a foot rest. Have a great trip.

  19. Midwest Red Sox Fan*

    I have been at my place of employment for nine years. I’ve had two different roles during that time, at about the same compensatory/ responsibility level. I’d consider myself a good to very good (but not rock star) employee.

    There are a couple of openings in another part of my organization that I am definitely interested in and qualified for. Experience and education? Check. Healthy business relationships with potential coworkers? Check.

    However: this area is known for being a problem area. Incompetent. Suffers a lot from “not my job”-itis. True, they’ve been understaffed and lacking leadership for awhile. Things seem to be turning around (new leadership, increasing personnel), but I’m hesitant to throw my hat into the ring when it may be filled with vipers. There usually aren’t too many positions like this open at my organization unless someone retires or dies, so the opportunity is a rare one to have more responsibility and earn more money.

    So, do I apply anyway and say eh- what have I got to lose? That’s what I’m leaning toward, but I’m curious as to what the AAM Hive Mind has to say. Thanks!

    1. OperaArt*

      Is there anyone you are close enough to in that other area to ask about the new leadership and apparent turn around?

    3. SnarkyLibrarian*

      That is a tough one. Are there similar openings for jobs outside your organization? Toxic and/or incompetent coworkers will absolutely ruin your work life, so beware. Good luck!

    4. Natalie*

      I would think long and hard about whether or not the additional responsibility and money are worth what sounds like a terrible work environment. Is there any reason you’re not looking outside of your company if you want to move up?

      If you do interview, ask some real questions about leadership’s plans to change things, and contract their answers with your personal experience with your org’s track record. For example, if they have historically been hesitant to fire people, you should view any promises that people will be let go very skeptically. Organizational culture is slow and hard to change.

    5. As Close As Breakfast*

      Are you in a position to discuss your concerns openly with the hiring manager? Either before even applying, or during the interview process? Since it’s the same organization you’re in a unique position to know some of the issues/problems/concerns that probably wouldn’t come up with an external candidate. Unless the hiring manager is out of touch or kind of a jerk (in which case you probably wouldn’t want the job anyway, right?) I would think it’s totally reasonable to bring up your concerns. If I were her I wouldn’t think that was bad or weird, I’d likely look at it as a pretty responsible line of inquiry, particularly if I were in tune with the past/current issues in the area.

  20. Anon for Stress Relief*

    I got the job!!!!!

    I have been posting on and off about the increasingly toxic situation at my work. Around Thanksgiving, I made the difficult decision to start working elsewhere. I redid my resume using Alison’s advice, got several interviews, and on Tuesday accepted an offer at almost double my current salary that I am very excited about! I could never have done it without the support and advice of Alison and the community here.

    Alison- I hope you know how much your advice helps people, even those who don’t ask you questions directly.

    Everyone- Thank you for being such a supportive community. You kept me going when I might have otherwise fallen into a cycle of doubt.

    10. nep*

      Such great news! Congratulations. Bravo on doing all it took to land a great position for yourself. Inspiring. Thanks and all the best in the new position.

  21. Snark*

    So I’m packing up everything I might need to work from home this week, because it’s looking like a solid 50/50 that there’ll be a government shutdown, which means my office will be shut and locked. Of course, I’m already bought and paid for, so I’ll have to do what I can without access to my government email or any of the government clients I work for. o_o

    1. Overeducated*

      Dealing with that as well, but I don’t think I’ll be able to get much done without access to certain software subscriptions. It’s going to be weird.

      1. Snark*

        There’s going to be a point where I can’t push forward any more, at which point…..dunno. Go for a walk with the dog, I guess.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      I remember those days. Solid thoughts and prayers to all federal employees. Shutdowns blow.

      1. Snark*

        And beyond the not-inconsiderable personal impacts, from the perspective of good governance, I don’t even want to know how many worker-years are going to get flushed down the toilet for precisely no good reason. When those costs are factored in, the last shutdown cost many billions of dollars.

    4. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I was still a contractor during the last shutdown in 2013, and I had enough bookkeeping/maintenance/cleanup type tasks to do that I was able to bill for the whole time, although I might have taken some leave just because it was quiet and I felt like it. Our rule as it has been explained to us is we can work on anything that isn’t visible to the public and doesn’t require the client’s (Fed. employee) input.

      1. Snark*

        Same here, more or less. Thankfully, my next project requires a review of old files and documentation, so I’m sure I can bill for that, at least until I need access to the electronic files.

      2. periwinkle*

        I was a contractor during that shutdown, too, but one project had just ended and the other was delayed by the uncertainty and then the shutdown. I wasn’t getting paid beyond some minor billing for clean-up work on the completed project.

        The lead for the postponed project was aghast when I told her I had accepted a permanent position elsewhere. Why would I trade exciting unemployment and uncertainty for boring old income and benefits? So glad to have left federal contracting behind but am worried for my friends who haven’t.

    5. CAA*

      My thoughts are with you. One of the worst work things I ever had to do was furlough 30 people during the last shutdown and explain to them that no matter what they saw on the news, as contractors we weren’t going to get any back pay for the missed time. We lost a few good people who decided government work just didn’t provide the job stability they needed.

      1. Aunt Vixen*

        Yup, that’s where I am now. Bringing the work laptop home, because I’m scheduled to WFH Monday, but odds are I’m looking at an unpaid couple of weeks I think. But hey, last time this happened was also the time my old job had lost 30% of its funding, so I got laid off on the first day of the shutdown (it was also the first day of the old job’s new fiscal year). So on the up side that time, I had severance pay; on the down side, no job. And couldn’t avail myself of all the sympathetic discounts around town where you got half price if you showed a government ID or whatever. (We’d had separate IDs and anyway I’d had to hand mine in when I was laid off.) At my present job I actually work in an actual federal building, so my ID looks the same as the feds’.

        No billing, no back pay, and not much sympathy from folks outside the Beltway. I need to find some shutdown house projects (I could finally clean the basement!) and start looking for a private-sector job …

    6. Caledonia*

      To a non US person, can someone explain shutdowns? Why does it happen? I don’t think we have them in the UK….

    7. Goya de la Mancha*

      Good Luck! Just finished the episode of Parks & Rec where they get shut down for the summer and Leslie comes back with 20+ color coded binders ready for action.

    9. Student*

      Proposal:
      Amendment 28 to the Constitution of the United States of America:

      If an agreement among the House, Senate, and President cannot be reached to fund the Government, then the following will occur:
      (1) An automatic CR lasting for 6 months will be approved
      (2) Pay and benefits for Congress and the White House (elected representatives specifically) will be suspended for three months
      (3) A special election will be called within 3 months for every elected Representative, every Senator, the President, and Vice President.

      Really, who else gets away with not doing their most basic job duty and still gets to go to work for years?

      4. anonagain*

        I know you’re really just venting and making a point, that I fundamentally agree with, and that constitutional amendment by comment section isn’t a thing. I’m still super glad point #3 isn’t a thing. Can you imagine how often the government would get shut down if it was an avenue for rerunning elections?

        Why agree on a budget? Shut everything down and just hope the other side loses their election.

        1. Someone else*

          I’m not saying I agree with it, but my understanding is that a number of countries do not have provisions to “shut down the government” as the US does. Rather, instead, they would, essentially “make a new government”. So in the example given, it’s not so much “instead of coming to an agreement, shut everything down and hope the other side loses” as is “prevent the shutdown in the first place by replacing those running the place instead”. It’s not unheard of. I don’t know if it’d fix the issue in the US, given the rest of the differences between systems, but the concept alone of “you can’t come to an agreement on what to do? OK – get out.” is a thing elsewhere.

    10. Just a thought*

      ugh, I’m a government contractor and we were just informed that we can’t bill the contract and have to use PTO for any shut-down days. We’re “allowed” to go into negative PTO, so I might not get a vacation this year. Not cool.

      2. hermit crab*

        Ouch, that’s really rough. Our federal contracts also get stop-worked when the government shuts down. However, during the last shutdown, the company did a pretty good job finding administrative/overhead/bizdev stuff for us to do. People were encouraged to take PTO if they could/wanted to, and management was clear that the overhead billing wasn’t going to last forever, but at least nobody was forced to burn leave.

      3. Specialk9*

        My company responded to the pending potential govt shutdowns by slashing our severance to a pittance. I questioned the legality, and lost any shred of loyalty to them, then found a new job.

    11. a*

      I’m supposed to go to a federally funded symposium on Monday. Latest communications said they have heard nothing about discontinuing or postponing. Guess I can spend the next day and a half deciding whether to get on the plane…

      1. Snark*

        The funds are likely to have already been disbursed, so unless you get evidence to the contrary, I think you’re probably good.

    12. Specialk9*

      It’s why I left the govt. Couldn’t handle the stress of government shutdowns due to brinksmanship.

      Ironically, I did get laid off from the private sector this week. (Luckily was able to transfer internally.)

  22. Bittersweet_Charity*

    Working with a defensive colleague

    I’m a month into a new job and realizing one of my co-workers cannot take any questioning or criticism of her work. She immediately gets defensive and refuses to listen to what the other party is saying, even going so far as to invalidate the question or concern.

    In the past week, we’ve had two intense conversations ending with her refusing to acknowledge the constructive critique and accept necessary feedback–even from our shared boss.

    Please share any tricks and tips you have for working with such a person.

    Thanks!

      1. Bittersweet_Charity*

        Considering that defensive employee and shared boss had a loud closed-door meeting about some of the critiques, I would venture a guess that he’s aware.

        Also, the constructive feedback I relayed came directly from the shared boss via email. He asked that changed be made to an email sent to nearly 2,000 people, so I made the changes. Defensive co-worker did not respond well, to put it mildly.

    2. OperaArt*

      You’re only one month into a new job, and already critiquing a colleague? I’d be resistant to what you were saying too, if I were in her position.

      1. Snark*

        And you’d be way off base, if that critique and feedback were valid, and especially if it also came from your boss. If Bittersweet is a SME or is otherwise really expererienced in the work, it’s entirely possible that they have the knowledge and experience to critique a coworker’s product after a month.

      2. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Yeah, I think you’re probably overstepping at this point. You haven’t been there long enough to really get a feel for how everything is supposed to work.

        1. Bittersweet_Charity*

          Detective Amy Santiago:

          When I am directly sharing edits to a draft that arrived via email from our shared boss, I don’t believe that I’m “overstepping.” I am following the directions of the person who hired me and runs the entire department.

    3. rldk*

      When you say “we,” do you mean yourself & same-level employees, or yourself & boss?

      If boss, then they’re already aware of how bad Defensive Colleague is, and they may be making moves already.

      If not with boss (or if no movement is happening), I would say approach it as a work issue. “I’m having trouble getting projects Y & Z done because Defensive Colleague isn’t receptive to changes A & B that need to happen for projects to go forward.”
      If boss doesn’t know, you can ask “How do you want me to approach future holdups like this?”
      If boss knows, you can emphasize that yes, there are work impacts happening – it’s not just a personality quirk!

      This is definitely a manager’s job to deal with an employee like this!

      1. Bittersweet_Charity*

        Thanks for the helpful phrasing.

        He and the entire organization are aware of the issue. In fact, two people have privately joked with me about it. They, however, do not work with Defensive Colleague as often as I do.

        Moreover, I’m new and don’t want to make any waves. I am just trying to appease my boss, get along with my co-workers, create decent products and meet deadlines. Is it impossible?

    4. Snark*

      This is really an issue for Boss to handle. You don’t really have the standing to address her behavior as a performance issue, which is what it really is. I’d continue to let Boss know when this issue rears up, ask for their help working with them, and get through as best you can.

      1. Bittersweet_Charity*

        Snark:

        You’re right in that I have limited power, but I very much want to get along.

        Our shared boss travels frequently, so I am often left to resolve situations with no assistance. I have nearly 10 years of experience in the field and feel confident about the feedback I’m providing. However, I don’t want to fight over every single issue. It’s exhausting and not the least bit productive.

        Maybe things will settle down after I’ve settled into the role more fully.

        1. Snark*

          Oooof. Are you in any way senior to the Difficult One? Or is it a true peer relationship? At some point, though you may be new to the office, you do seem to be sufficiently experienced and competent to meaningfully crititque work – and if this person pushes back against all critique, not just you, it’s not about your competence anyway.

          It might be worth talking to Shared Boss about how to handle things in his absence, because I can easily see you getting stonewalled when Difficult One knows he’s not around to lay down the law. I’m not generally a fan of “team lead” or “tech lead” designations, but I wonder if there’s a way he can give you enough autonomy/authority to overrule Difficult One or implement edits directly if it’s necessary to keep moving forward.

        2. Oranges*

          I think you’re basically toast here for getting along with your co-worker. People who are so invested in being “right” will not “get along” with anyone besides a complete doormat (usually). I get wanting to get along with your co-worker but your boss is falling down on their job here. They need to state to your co-worker “I need you to accept feedback without any negative ‘repercussions’ on the person giving it.” Your co-worker can feel however they like to but they can’t make correcting them harder for other people. That’s a no go.

          I’d actually have a sit down with your boss stating what your co-worker has done when you’ve corrected her and how you’ve reacted. Figure out your own personal boundaries around what you’re willing to take from co-worker and outline it to your boss. I have no scripts for this whatsoever.

          Eg. I have found that I do better when I critique one co-worker via email/writting and then… not worry about their reactions if possible. If this practice was abnormal in my work-space I would sit down with my boss and state something along the lines of “Gary’s push-back on feedback is creating issues around correcthing their mistakes. To make it easier on myself I want to put all feedback in email form so I don’t have to have a 2 hour long battle about how the feedback is incorrect or it’s not Gary’s fault.”

          So what happens if co-worker just… can’t. Like they get the email and storm over to your desk? Well, in that case PASS THE BUCK. Your manager gets the money for doing this very thing. THEY are responsible for their minions. So you might need to become a broken record on this “Part of my job is feedback according to Manager. Please see manager if you have issues with that” Because her brain isn’t in any space to listen to reason at that moment and it’s not your job to make her see.

          Also, passing the situation “up” the ladder can light a fire under your manager. It’s always good to try to solve problems on your own if possible but this isn’t one for you to solve. If your manager continues to avoid this issue they’re going to loose good people and harm the company. Also you’ll have to do a cost/benefit analysis.

        3. AnotherJill*

          A good thing about your issue is that the boss is aware of the difficulties. Although that obviously depends on how well he/she manages the employee.

          This might sound unpleasant, but have you tried getting to know your co-worker a little on a more personal level? Sometimes just being trying to get to know someone in ways not related to work can help those kinds of issues. People generally become defensive when they feel insecure about themselves, so removing the stressors from some conversations can help.

          1. Bittersweet_Charity*

            AnotherJill:

            That’s a good idea!

            Defensive Co-worker has a young daughter, whom she dotes on constantly. Taking an interest in the child would likely build some inroads.

            1. Anon Accountant*

              I wonder if there is a way to phrase your feedback so that coworker doesn’t get as defensive? Maybe instead of saying “x is wrong. You need to do y” can you say “I can see why we’re doing x here. However, it is my experience that y is faster and leads to fewer clerical errors, therefore going forward we need to be doing y” or something similar, where you’re not presenting the issue as criticism, but rather as an improvement or a change in strategy? I have made (reasonably) good experiences with trying to find one good thing in the thing that we will then change and using “we” a lot to indicate that you’re a team on this. I could see somebody getting defensive (wrongly so, but still) if they thought “ugh, this new person hasn’t even arrived yet and is already changing things without even understanding how we do things around here.” I’m not at all justifying that reaction, but I could see that being where some of the defensiveness originates.
              I think I’d only so far if it were me though. I’d try to be pleasant and professional, avoid becoming visibly upset, try not to engage in negotiations or back-and-forths. Basically if your boss has said this is the new way of doing things, then that’s the way it is, and your coworker needs to accept it. Its not your job to make sure that your coworker doesn’t feel threatened by your existence.
              Good luck!

        4. Anion*

          Maybe try not fighting?

          I don’t mean that in a crappy way; I mean it literally. Like, my husband’s ex-wife used to call and pick fights with him once every few months (this was early in our marriage), and he finally realized that it takes two people to argue and so stopped responding to her in a way that gave her an opening to argue.

          So in your case, you would say something like, “Hey, Boss wanted these edits made, can you get those done [or whatever it is that Boss asked you to pass on]?” And if she argues, you either just smile and say, “I understand. Boss wants these edits made, can you get those done?” Just keep repeating yourself. Do not address her points/complaints, do not say anything other than “Okay. Boss wants this,” period. “I understand you don’t agree, but Boss has made this decision and we need to carry it out.” And if she pushes back further, tell her she has to take it up with Boss.

          Or you could try responding to her arguments with, “Okay,” and nothing else, if it’s a situation where you don’t need her to act on anything. Just “Okay,” and that’s it. Don’t give her an opening; don’t behave as if the subject is up for discussion. Whatever you do, don’t argue back. Just keep smiling and pleasantly repeating yourself or saying “Okay,” or “I understand.”

          If you feel like commiserating or trying to improve your relationship, you could try something like, “I know we don’t always agree with what we’re told to do, but we have been asked to do this/do it this way/make these changes, so let’s just get them done, okay?”

          The point and goal is just to not get drawn into an argument, basically; don’t give her an opening to push back or yell at you, don’t offer to discuss it or allow her to make you discuss it.

          My husband never really considered that he could just refuse to engage on this level and he could stop caring about being “right” or defending himself against accusations of being “wrong.” A lot of people don’t/don’t think of it that way (I didn’t realize it until someone gave that advice to me, either). But you’re perfectly free to simply refuse to engage in discussion about it, and to keep repeating your boss’s request in a pleasant, smiling, even understanding fashion while still refusing to argue over who’s right or who’s wrong. Since he started doing that, not only did he stop spending hours on the phone arguing with his ex but she finally stopped calling so much because she wasn’t getting what she wanted out of those conversations anymore. We’ve both found it immensely useful in many situations.

          The added benefit here is that not only are you not being rude or forceful, and you’re not arguing, but that it puts the responsibility on her to act or not act. You have given her the instructions/feedback very clearly. You’ve made it clear that this comes from above you. She is refusing to comply, and thus the onus for explaining why she refused to comply is on her and not you. Because it’s not your job to manage her or make her do X or Y, that’s really all you can do and the responsibility does belong directly on her shoulders.

          I really hope that helps! It’s extremely sucky to have to deal with people like that, I hope it gets better.

    5. another Liz*

      Yeah, I have been in your shoes. I don’t agree with trying to make friends, that just gives ammunition for ” you’re just saying that because (something from personal conversation totally irrelevant to work)”. You know how sometimes Your Boss Sucks And Isn’t Going To Change? This is Your Coworker Sucks And Isn’t Going To Change. In my case, Defensive would guard her processes, because nobody could say she was doing it wrong if nobody else knew how to do it. She was quite proactive in pointing out everyone else’s errors directly to the boss, to make herself look better by comparison I guess? The only thing that resolved it was her eventually leaving, but your manager sounds much more involved than mine too, so use that to your advantage. Ask how they want it handled, and stick to their plan. I would limit contact as much as you can, keep everything super professional, find ways to not lose your temper no matter how frustrating it gets, and document document document. Good luck.

  23. Forget T-Bone Steak, Let's Eat T-Rex Steak*

    My workplace is so bad at employee transfers. It’s honestly easier for them to hire someone from outside than to move a worker from one department to another. About a month ago I started a new position in a different department and it’s been a rough transition.

    My access to the purchasing system is in limbo because my training is out of date. That’s fine and I can re-take the training…except that when I retook it last week, the training didn’t issue me a new certificate of completion because I had previously completed it. I emailed the training help desk to see if they could update it with the new date and got a rather patronizing reply about how to log in and print a certificate (NOT MY QUESTION! CAN YOU READ? THAT CERTIFICATE HAS BEEN DEEMED OUTDATED!)

    I also haven’t been paid for the last couple of days I worked at my previous position. Apparently when HR updated my profile in the personnel system, my timesheet disappeared into the void and now no one can figure out how to pay those hours.

    No question. Just a lot of frustration.

    1. Tara*

      I knew a lot of the back systems and I still had trouble moving all my accesses/etc. when I changed departments. Unsolicited advice: do you know who the security coordinator is? Three months of forms and requests got me nowhere, but being able to email one guy directly got my complicated accesses set up in a week.

    2. BRR*

      Not answering a question is a big pet peeve of mine. I don’t always know how to handle it.I hat having to ask the same question four times because I feel like it reflects more on me than the person who didn’t do what they were supposed to do.

  24. STG*

    So, I accepted a new position a few months ago at a different employer. The department gathered up money for a ‘going away’ giftcard which ended up being around 75 bucks as well as a department lunch. I wasn’t aware that this was happening until my last day. So, I left to move to the new employer. Well, the position ended up being a poor fit so after a few months, I negotiated with my original employer to come back with a promotion and a raise. So, now I’m back in my original department. Nothing has been said but I personally feel guilty now about the gift since I ended up returning. I’m not sure how to handle it though. Should I give cash back to the person who originally organized the gift? Should I buy a lunch for everyone as thanks? Money is a little tight since my partner lost his job before I returned but I could make it work. Thoughts or ideas?

    1. Laura*

      Ignore it. A gift doesn’t come with strings and returning it would be awkward. If you’re feeling particularly like showing appreciation, just bring in cookies/donuts/coffee whatever for the team (once, only once) then try and put it out of your mind.

      1. Amber O.*

        Agreed- the gift was a gesture from your team mates and I’m sure none of them are even thinking about how they gave you something and now you’ve returned. A small token of appreciation like what Laura listed would be plenty sufficient as a “thanks for being so great before I left, and I’m happy to be back.”

        1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

          This happened a few months ago? Then they probably think you’ve already used the gift card, so no harm no foul.

        2. Jane of all trades f/k/a anon accountant*

          Totally agree! Bring in bagels and coffee one morning, or whatever works for your workplace, and that’s it! Don’t worry about it.

    2. Adlib*

      If I were at your original company and contributed, I wouldn’t even be thinking about it. I’d be welcoming you back and not even thinking about that gift. There may be some who might be, but I don’t think you should be obligated to return the favor. After all, you couldn’t have foreseen the situation unfolding as it did.

    3. Observer*

      Unless the place has a history of pressuring people into giving gifts, you have nothing to feel guilty about. You didn’t ask or even hint that people should give you gifts, and you took the new job in good faith. Stuff happens.

      If you really want to do something and it’s appropriate to your work culture, you could bring something in for the group. It doesn’t even have to be a full lunch but if you pick up some doughnuts or even (if you want to be more lavish) something like bagels and a couple of spreads, that would be more than enough. Not as an apology but as an acknowledgement that you’re back at work with a cool team of people.

      1. STG*

        Thanks a lot. There isn’t any sort of pressure so I think I’m going to take your idea about bagels on Monday.

  25. Overeducated*

    All I have to say is that with what’s going on in the news, now is a really frustrating time to be waiting on a federal job offer! I was told I’d probably hear from HR this week but haven’t, and who knows how long it will be if there’s a shutdown. I am scheduled to fly out for an interview with a non-federal job next week, but that’s not the job I want….

    My sympathies to all employees and contractors who are dealing with the prospect of some professional and potentially financial disruptions.

    1. Snark*

      It’s an annoyance to the contractors, but it’s a genuine imposition on the (generally hard-working and competent, contrary to the stereotype) Federal employees, who won’t get paid on time and wait for Congress to authorize back pay whenever checks resume. Sucks when a morgage and bills need paid.

      1. Overeducated*

        I think it depends on the type of contracts and contractors, right? I’m thinking of, for instance, the people who clean federal office buildings but aren’t employees, whom I’ve heard won’t be able to work or be eligible for back pay. Whereas those working on many of our larger project-based contracts will (I’m glad you will, and I’m not technically a contractor but I should still get paid).

        1. Snark*

          Oh yes, that’s very true – I’m thinking mostly of support contractors like me, but yeah, the cleaners and field crews and so on will probably be holding the short end. :(

          1. Aunt Vixen*

            My team’s on a time & materials contract. If we can’t work, we can’t get paid. End of.

            It blows.

            BUT it blows less for a professional married to another professional (working in the private sector this time, thank god) with some cushioning in the bank account than it must blow for e.g. the presumably lower-paid and therefore probably further-up-against-their-means maintenance staff.

    2. KR*

      Ugh ugh ugh – I came here to post about the impending shutdown too. My husband is in the military and we’ve been waiting on Congress to approve the bonus so his reenlistment can go through. He got the reenlistment he wants but he can’t sign any paper cementing it until the goddamn Congress passes a budget. UGH. If our pay gets delayed I’m going to have some Words To Say.

        1. Snark*

          Makes you wonder whether we’d see this if legislators’ pay were docked the same as every other Federal employee’s.

      1. Snark*

        Unfortunately, my guess is that timeline is entirely dependent on the unknowable variable of when a budget or CR gets signed, so they’d be hard pressed to give a timeline beyond “whenever we get back to work and pick up where we left off.”

      2. Overeducated*

        I don’t think anyone will be able to give me one, but I did email the hiring manager to flag that I haven’t heard from HR yet just in case that helps. I’m sure there are more pressing fires to put out in that office, though.

        1. Overeducated*

          (Update: hiring manager confirmed everyone is running around prepping, they haven’t heard updates from HR either, and apologized for the frustration and uncertainty. I appreciate the sympathetic responsiveness, though of course I’d prefer the written offer….)

    4. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

      I’m sorry to hear that’s you’re waiting for that offer. I’m a current federal employee, and I’m pretty nervous about a potential shutdown. My agency has about a week of carryover funding, but beyond that, I’ll probably be sitting a home furloughed. It’s uncomfortable for sure. Good Luck on everything with the offer!

      1. Garland Not Andrews*

        We won’t have funding for anything other than essential personnel, so looks like I’m out on my ear unless our annoying leaders can get their collective heads out of their collective backside and do their jobs!

    5. Aluminosilicate*

      I (miraculously ) got an offer for a fed job during the last shutdown. It can happen! It was unclear how I would be able to actually show up and start work at the time, though. As well as salary negotiations being interesting.

      1. Overeducated*

        I have a verbal offer, but not a written one, and given the current situation “I want to hire you” is very far from “here’s the paperwork from HR.” How did yours work? I’m curious!

  26. fat anon clothing question*

    What do you think about flowy dresses at work?

    For context, I’m fat. And I’m fat in a way that you see much more often in men than women: I have a paunch so my belly significantly hangs over in front. Wearing sheath dresses or pencil skirts or anything that is supposed to be close to the body make me look like a sausage pressed into the clothes.

    Even though that’s where I’m thinnest, empire waist also looks terrible (or very pregnant).

    I have found though that I do pretty well with a A-line or fit and flare cut. However, while A-line should be pretty okay at work, what’s your stance on fit and flare? (For reference, I buy a lot at eshakti.)

    My company is relatively conservative, but we’re backoffice; if they’re clean you can come in jeans, blazers are not expected and sleeveless clothes are fine if the straps are wide enough. No motto shirts. So it’s not that I would be called out for wearing a full skirt, but I keep wondering if it’s okay to do so.

    Thoughts?

    1. Overeducated*

      If your office is that casual then I think flowing skirts are absolutely fine. I’d wear one before wearing jeans or anything sleeveless.

      2. fat anon clothing question*

        Well our age structure is 30s to 60s; the men wear shirts (by choice though) my manager dresses up but she’s frequently in contact with upper management. And even her boss wears jeans on occasion.

        I do wear jeans, but I finally have the confidence to wear dresses and I totally want to. And I would totally wear sheath dresses but….there’s the sausage problem.

        Thanks for your answer!

    2. artgirl*

      I think you can go for it! Maybe something with layers of tulle would be too much, but the general shape of fit/flare is generally not too ostentatious or non-conservative, IMHO.

      1. MechanicalPencil*

        Exactly this! So no tutu-esque skirts and you should be golden. You’re basically just describing a maxi dress, which I wish I could find long enough for me in-store. I know I could do the eshakti thing, but I want something less expensive to just throw on and go out on weekends.

        1. fat anon clothing question*

          If you’re lucky you can get dresses from eshakti for about $35 (with 40% off on special days) if you don’t want silk or something, though.

      2. Clever Name*

        I was going to say pretty much this. Maybe stick to solid colors or geometric prints and not floral (which feels less business-y to me)?

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          I wear floral fit-and-flare dresses in business casual offices and always get told I looked dressed up. So it depends on the floral and the fabric used to make the dress.

    3. Squeeble*

      I think that’s more than fine! We’re pretty standard business casual here, and I see quite a lot of dresses like the ones you’re describing (bought one myself last week at eshakti). If anything, it sounds like you might be slightly dressier than your coworkers, but not in an outlandish way.

      1. fat anon clothing question*

        Not really, my male coworkers all wear shirts (by choice, I think it’s their uniform?) no jackets, my manager is super dressy, and the rest of my coworkers wary by day. Jeans are okay, doesn’t mean everyone wears jeans.

        Thanks for your answer!

    4. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      I think that a flowy dress or skirt would be perfectly fine. I have a fit and flare dress that I wear to work often.

    5. anyone out there but me*

      I checked out Eshakti and I think the fit and flare style is lovely. Paired with a cardigan or a blazer and some nice shoes and you have what I considered my work “uniform” for many years when I worked in a professional office. I work from home now so most days I’m in my yoga pants :)

      1. fat anon clothing question*

        Ah shoes. That’s my next project, because I have weird feet and can’t wear heels or ballerinas, so I’m always on the lookout. I’m not wearing sneakers though, so I think I’m okay.

        I love working in my pyjamas from home. ;)

    6. Manders*

      Ugh, I have a similar body type, and finding work clothes has always been a pain. I think fit and flare dresses can look professional, so long as they’re otherwise appropriate for the office (so: no weird cutouts, no really hems, etc).

      I also found the peplum trend from a few years back flattering on my body–the waist nips in right where it’s thinnest, and the ruffles cover the paunch. I’ve had a hard time finding peplum dresses recently, I should have grabbed more when they were popular.

        1. NaoNao*

          Another possible type of dress or top would be rusching or faux wrap at the waist—I have a couple for days when I feel a bit “extra belly”. I think a flowing midi dress might be the way to go—I’ve seen some dresses recently that (for lack of a better term) have no definition and are very loose from the neck to the mid-calf. One can create definition with a belt or blazer or just leave loose, thrown on some tights and boots or some flats in warm weather and go.
          Something that might also help is to visually “cut” the area: wear a cardigan, or blazer overtop of the dress, so that the middle section is visually more narrow than without the topper. Sometimes dresses are even made with these “optical illusion” panels, where the sides are black and middle panel is printed.

    7. Rusty Shackelford*

      Absolutely. I’m apple-shaped and I wear flowy a lot. As long as you’re not going for earth-goddess or beachy, it’s fine. (Rule of thumb: would this outfit look good with a flower crown? If so, don’t wear it to work.)

      2. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

        I was going to say stay away from costumey (it is so a word!) and fit and flare is perfect for work.

    8. Cats and Dogs*

      As a fat eshakti-lover myself, I swear by them (pockets!). I work in a business casual office. Jeans on fridays. If I have a particular event with VIPs or something, I’ll wear a more structured or more conservative/neutral patterned dress. (But, I would think you can always add a belt or blazer to a fit and flare dress to make it more “proper” if needed.) I get compliments on my eshakti dresses all the time.

        1. fat anon clothing question*

          Thank you!

          I like the more neutral stuff anyway (the wildest I went was a sakura-patterned one?), I think the midis are sort of a bit out there but I still think they’re okay. I feel better with hems (way) below the knee. I think I just think they’re a bit weird because it’s not what I typically see in the office, that may be because it doesn’t run with the fashion where I am.

          I have also gotten compliments and so has my friend who orders from them a lot.

    9. Detective Amy Santiago*

      As another fat gal who prefers dresses, I highly recommend the Piphany brand Rocklin Wrap. They are a company that is set up similar to LuLaRoe, but less expensive and, IMO, better quality. I got one for a wedding and it is very comfortable and flattering.

    10. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

      My office has a similar dress code and I wear flowy skirts and dresses all the time. I’m extremely bottom heavy and more fitted skirts/dresses tend to ride up on me because mu hips and rear are disproportionaly large compared to my waist and upper torso. I don’t think there needs to be the expectation that everything you wear will be structured as long as you don’t go full-on Cochella bohemian. ;)

      1. fat anon clothing question*

        Fitted, see that’s the word I was missing. (ESL here.)

        Thanks, I really like collecting all thoughts about this!

    12. Pollygrammer*

      I always try to balance a-little-less polished in one garment with a-little-more-polished in another–so if I throw a blazer over something more informal (those pants-that-are-almost-but-not-quite-jeans, a flowy skirt) I feel like I come out even. I have a couple knit, machine-washable blazers that work with everything.

    13. OperaArt*

      I wear eShakti fit-and-flate dresses to work at least a couple of times a week. My workplace is on the casual end of business casual.

    14. AwkwardestTurtle*

      I have a paunchy belly too and it’s so weird how some stuff makes you look super pregnant. I like to wear nice flows tunics over pencil skirts or pants dressed up with a nice necklace or snarf.

      Also I found city chiq to have awesome fit n flare stuff. Mostly dressier but some work for work. Occasionally they have big sales

      1. fat anon clothing question*

        I’m not in North America, so I am brand-challenged on occasion.

        Pencil skirts with tunics are an interesting idea! I need to try that when I’m a bit braver!

        And yeah, clothes are super weird regarding the looking pregnant thing. It’s either pregnant (especially with empire waist) or you can really see the very sharp drop below the paunch because the fabric follows the body. Even though I think some people will wear it anyway, I don’t feel comfortable in it.

        1. AwkwardestTurtle*

          I’m in the US and buy from them online (usually when they have an “outlet” where there’s lots of stuff $40 and under). Online can be tough though because you don’t know what’s going to look good when it’s on.

          Also I think your current workwear situation sounds fine and office appropriate!

        2. Fortitude Jones*

          Try fit-and-flare dresses from Closet London. They may be able to ship you some things for cheap depending on where you are.

    15. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Fit and flare is fine. Eshakti is actually really great for this, as a lot of their fit and flare is cut so that it doesn’t flare strongly. I’ve also found that Torrid knit “skater” cut dresses can do very well too, as long as you pick a fabric and color that is otherwise professionally suitable. (Link to an example to follow)

      2. Rusty Shackelford*

        Their non-knit dresses are great too. I’m going to link to one that’s probably the most flattering item of clothing I own. Since the poster is not in North American, I don’t know that Torrid is an option, but you can look for similar styles.

    16. YarnOwl*

      Fellow fat here, and I wear flowy dresses a lot! Especially in a more casual place like it sounds like your office is, I think as long as they’re not super low cut or spaghetti straps or anything, you’re good. Especially lots of the stuff at eShakti; very cute and trendy but still professional mostly.

      I have been wanting to buy stuff from eShakti but keep putting it off! You’ve inspired me to just do it already.

    17. Sutemi*

      I think the appropriateness has a lot to do with fabric, not just shape. Very lightweight fabrics and many big floral prints don’t read as professional to me. A fit and flare in a medium weight fabric isn’t unprofessional.

    18. Former Admin Turned Project Manager*

      I’ve worn fit and flare dresses for years, both in my insurance-servicing company and my current not-for-profit (business casual). As long as the skirts aren’t crazy full (like a tutu, as mentioned elsewhere), you should be fine. I’m a pear shape, so that style is my go-to, and I often top with a cardigan (since I’m usually cold).

    19. LCL*

      I have seen some great career look clothing at Eloqui. I have bought a couple things from them for parties and they were exactly as advertised. I can’t speak to the work appropriateness of dresses because our dress code here is totally different and I am unfamiliar with the office type of dress code.

    20. Bleeborp*

      I’ve never thought twice about wearing fit and flare dresses to work, they seem perfectly appropriate to me (I’ve worn them to job interviews with a blazer, so maybe I’m just the one off base!) I am also fat but have a different body shape (all my fat is in my hips butt and legs) and a fit and flare is also more flattering for me, pencil skirts can look obscene on me!

    22. Observer*

      If the pictures I’m seeing are anything to go by, then fit and flare dresses would be fine even in a conservative / formal office as long the rest of it is ok and you had something like a blazer with it. (Like I’d avoid large floral prints, or something that’s too low cut, etc.) For a casual office? 100% appropriate.

    23. Coalea*

      I think a knee-length A-line or fit-and-flare dress in the right fabric and color/print can be totally office appropriate. You can always add a blazer or cardigan if you want to be a bit more formal.

      When you say “flowy,” that makes me think long, like a maxi dress, which I don’t think would be right for most offices.

    24. The Ginger Ginger*

      I find that adding a nice looking shrug or cardigan (not a baggy one, but a more tailored one) to any dress is going to make it look much more professional and put together. So if you’re feeling unsure about a dress, slap a nice cardi on it the first few times until you get a feel for how the dress is being received in office.

      I also think your shoes are going inform how casual your outfit reads. Pumps or nice ballet flats are going to read as more formal than any type of sandal or open shoe.

    25. Not So NewReader*

      This is pretty general for anyone. My thought on clothing is that the garment should not have so much fabric that it’s always getting caught on things. If you buy something with a lot of fabric to it, the garment should move with you, not brush off things on the side and so on. I have avoided some things because I can just see the wheel of my chair getting caught on top of it or similar type of situation.
      My husband used to constantly watch my handbag. I had a knack for pushing it to my back while I shopped. He loved to point out, “You almost wiped out that entire shelf of glassware.” ” Almost” would be the key word here. I never did. But his point was valid that we should think about what we are wearing in relationship to what it is we are doing.

    26. Unnamed Sister*

      You might also look at Leota brand, and also Eileen Fischer’s plus/plus petite wool skirts. They are thick (eliminates the sausage casing issue) and comfy and I think pretty forgiving to my (similar) body! But I think what you’ve already selected is also likely to look great! Sometimes I do realize it’s a lot more than just the style, but the color, the use monochrome and lines, and tailoring. For our bodies, a small nip or a little hemming etc can turn “not quite” into “absolutely right!” I always have to hem and also take in strappy things – and regret it when I don’t.

    27. fat anon clothing question*

      Thank you all for your very kind answers and great suggestions! I will definitely also check out the other brands you mentioned!

  27. Fake old Converse shoes*

    Current mood: furious and trying not to murder the head of Social Media, who was more racist than usual this week. And her direct reports who agree with everything she says as well. I really don’t want to know why and how they keep their jobs.

  28. Cats and Dogs*

    When it rains, it pours. My boss recently went on maternity leave. Her boss recently quit. We’re also in the process of filling another senior position in my department. And guess who is running the department until these three (more senior than me) positions are back on track…. Needless to say, STRESS. I’m worried about big projects, I worry about strategic plans, I worry about my weekly meetings with the top dog in my company, because now I report to him (though he’s currently been pretty supportive). I worry, a lot.

    Hoping someone out there has some techniques, success stories, thoughts, prayers, or general empathy to share as I try to not sink the ship over the next few months.

    1. saucy den*

      General empathy here! I posted below how I’m now running a two-person department solo. Stress-city.

    2. Sabrina Spellman*

      I feel your pain! My coworker left in October, so I’ve been pulling double duty until we can hire someone new. Our part-timer just turned in her two weeks notice which means I’m also feeling the stress.

    3. Irene Adler*

      Can you get permission from top dog to “back burner” some projects? Are there others there who could be tasked with some duties (to lighten your load)? Can you get a temp or two in there to delegate your more basic tasks to and free up some of your time?
      Have you made it clear to top dog just how stressed you are? It’s one thing to be supportive, another to pitch in and actually do some of the work.
      One thing I got when I was overloaded with work projects: “Gee, you never asked me to help. I would have if you’d only said something to me.” Make sure you are doing that to the extent that you can.

      1. OtterB*

        Agreed. You cannot do everything, three people plus yourself would normally do and trying to is a huge stress generator. Be sure you are up front with top dog about this, and that the two of you are on the same page about priorities and/or anything that can be done to lighten the load in the meantime.

    4. Oranges*

      Empathy. That situation sucks.

      Don’t think you can single-handedly save the ship though. You can only bail so much water out of a sinking ship. Yeah it sucks that 2 meteorites fell on the ship but, you’re not to blame for them. Ask where your bailing will do the most good and know that some “cargo/provisions” (aka projects) are gonna get ruined by water. Hopefully you’ll still have enough to get where you need to go but if you don’t, it wasn’t because of something you did. It was because you’re not super-woman nor should you try to be because jumping off buildings only works if you can fly.

    5. Competent Commenter*

      Document, document, document. If. you know that something is going to be done past deadline/not done, let them know ahead of time in writing, “With Mary and Bob out, there are some areas that cannot be covered sufficiently. Project X is due on the 5th, and at current staffing levels we’ll need to either change that deadline or put other projects on hold. I recommend we change the deadline to the 20th for various important reasons. Please let me know if this is how I should proceed.” Or some such. Just get it in writing. Be out front with it. Don’t hide that there’s a problem.

      Also, set limits very early. Unless you’re a health care working or a firefighter, etc. no one’s going to die if things don’t get done. Don’t sacrifice yourself on this altar. Sure, working a little late, or being seen to work a little late, on occasion is okay. But there’s very little good that comes out of working way overtime for weeks or months on end. If anything it can delay the hiring of another person if you seem to be covering it on your own. So when someone says, on Friday “I need 30 hours of work done by Monday” you can say “That won’t be possible; how would you like to proceed” rather than “okay I’ll do it.”

      I’ve been in this situation short term and long term scenarios and in retrospect I should have set limits earlier. Generally my experience is that no one really thanks you for that extra work. It’s taken for granted, it’s not reimbursed, and you just start burning out. You are a precious and limited resource. Do not deplete yourself. No one else is going to look out for you.

      This all sounds more cynical and ominous than I intend it, just trying to be firm. YMMV. You may have better bosses. But I’ve been working for 30 years and I wish someone had set me straight on these issues way earlier.

    6. Thlayli*

      If you haven’t already done so, meet with the current person who is next up from you (your great-grandboss?) and give her a list of everything you know of that is “to do”. Include long term projects and the day-to-day stuff. Ask her to prioritise it for you. Then just try to keep on top of priorities as best you can. A weekly meeting with her would also seem appropriate, so you can keep her appraised of how well you are keeping on top of things and ask for guidance on anything you need to, andfind out of priorities need to shift.

      Also, if you want to move up in the organisation, this is the time to raise that. Ask to be considered for your bosses role.

      1. Thlayli*

        Sorry, just reread and realised your boss is on maternity leave, which if you’re in America is probably pretty short. I still find it hard to believe that American companies make people take unpaid leave and yet don’t replace them during that leave, but we won’t solve that situation here.

        Assuming you actually want to move up, the best thing from your perspective would be if your boss gets moved up to your grandboss role and you get your bosses role. But you probably can’t ask if your boss is being considered for grandbosses role.

        You might be able to ask if you can have more responsibility assigned to you on an ongoing basis, along with a corresponding increase in salary.

        Or depending on organisation and length of maternity leave, you might be able to ask for a temporary boost in salary to acknowledge the extra responsibility you’ve taken on while your boss is out. Where I live it’s common for people to take 6 months minimum maternity leave, and for someone else to be “acting head of department” in the meantime, with a tenpeorary raise to go along with it.

    7. Deus Cee*

      Communication and documentation. My dept of 3 (me most junior) went to a dept of 1 (me). I’m now going it alone, and if I were to try and do everything that we used to do when there were 3 of us, I’d burn out in months. I’ve made it clear with supervisors what needs to be done, and of that what I am able to do in the time available, asking their input on what I should be prioritising, but letting lower priority things slip – and making it clear to them that this is happening as a direct result of not having enough staff to do them. That way if they say “why hasn’t this been done?” I can say “I said I was focusing on abc, this is xyz. I can focus on xyz if you like, but this will be at the expense of abc. What would you like me to work on?”

  29. Dorothy Zbornak*

    Was I right to decline this interview?

    I applied for an Associate Director level position in a different field — I’m currently in higher ed. I have nearly 5 years of professional experience, so while it isn’t in that particular field (though that field is NOT a huge leap away from what I’m currently doing), I have all of the skills they were looking for and wrote a great cover letter demonstrating that (thanks to AAM!). I figured it was a long shot, but what the heck.

    I was contacted by someone in HR saying that while I didn’t have the right background for the Associate Director position, she wanted to phone interview me for a Coordinator role — looking at the job description, it seemed like an entry level admin sort of role that only required 1-3 years of experience. I made a lateral move to take my current role, and I’m really looking for something to finally advance my career rather than make another lateral move or even take a step down, which is what it really looks like this role would have been. I also really doubted that they could meet my salary expectations ($60k for a Coordinator role seems unlikely), and Glassdoor reviews implied the company is a mess and they have difficulty meeting payroll.

    For all of these reasons, I sent a polite thank you declining the interview. I’ve never done that before — I read tips on other sites saying that you should ONLY decline interviews if you have an offer, or you know from a friend that the place is terrible, etc. etc. Did I make the right move here? I just had a gut feeling from the job description that I wouldn’t want this job, so why waste my time, but the other little part of me goes “well, you’ll never really know until you talk to them about it…”

    Ugh! Happy Friday to everyone!

    1. fposte*

      I think that seems perfectly reasonable. They said “Hey, are you possibly interested in this other job?” and you weren’t, so you said so. If it’s not a job you’d have applied to if it were posted, I don’t see any further obligation for you just because they mentioned it to you personally.

        1. Anony*

          I think the advice against declining interviews may be geared towards people who are unemployed and therefore have little to lose by potentially wasting some time in an interview if it turns out that they do not want the job but a lot to gain if it turns out that they would want the job. If you already have a job and didn’t even apply to the position it would be a huge waste of time for you to go to the interview.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      I think you’re always right to decline an interview for a position you wouldn’t take, so it sounds like you did the right thing here.

      But, some of your assumptions did seem a little off to me. I work in a large company, but an associate director would be like a 15 year experience position at my place. They would probably consider an internal Hi Po with less experience, but 5 years in higher ed probably wouldn’t cut it. To me, switching industries with 5 yrs experience and taking a position that requires 3 yrs experience in that industry sounds about right. (I definitely know what you mean about having transferable skills, and I would be frustrated by the same thing, but when your sitting on the company side rather than the job seeker side, you see it differently.)

      1. Dorothy Zbornak*

        Thanks for the reply! The Associate Director position only asked for 3-5 years of experience, and since I hit so many of the requirements so I felt comfortable applying.

    3. Overeducated*

      I think whether your assumptions are correct depends on the industry. It seems like coordinator is more entry-level in higher ed and non-profits, whereas you can be a higher up coordinator in government and make more than $60k, which has surprised some of my non-profit network. I don’t know at all about for-profit business titles though.

      1. Dorothy Zbornak*

        True! The job description was very admin-heavy (scheduling meetings, coordinating meeting logistics, setting up webinars), so while it’s not a higher ed/non profit organization, it rang all the same bells as coordinator roles in those industries do, and I’m really trying to move away from admin things.

        1. Overeducated*

          If the job description wasn’t what you wanted, then yes, it sounds like you did the right thing, gracefully.

  30. You make me wanna shout*

    There hasn’t been many stories about weird/wacky applicantioms (or interviewers) for a while. Anyone got amusing stories (hopefully this can be done without getting mocking or condescending). Surely these still happen (unless everyone has started reading this blog!)

    1. Lumen*

      The guy who came in for an interview at a business casual tech office in a full suit (good sign! the interviewers liked people who showed they were taking this seriously!) but was visibly sweaty and looked harried (we understand, maybe he was nervous or fighting something off).

      Later, during the interview, one of the tech directors sent me a brief email from his phone:

      “This dude is so high.”

      It was all I could do to keep my composure. I live in a state where recreational marijuana is legal, and the office was fairly laid back, but you’d think it would still be understood that you don’t come to interviews (or work) stoned or drunk! The weirdest thing was that otherwise he seemed to have prepared (the suit, copies of his resume) but could otherwise barely function.

      After the interview ended and the candidate left the office, I looked up at the two interviewers (who were barely able to keep it together) and said “So should I just go ahead and archive him?”

      At which point we all just busted up laughing.

      1. sunshyne84*

        I’ve had people call to check on their application when I was in retail and they sounded high. lol One girl came in for an interview with leopard pants on.

    2. Triumphant Fox*

      There was a guy who came to interview at my last job and only referred to himself in third person. He also kept referring to himself with real slogan-type language.

      “Fergus is a powerhouse of enthusiasm, teapot knowledge and discipline.”
      “Fergus would make an excellent teapot coordinator and knows how to get the job done.”

      The interviewers at one point looked back at his resume to confirm that he was, indeed, Fergus.

      1. Oranges*

        I… would almost want to record that for posterity. Like was it really that bad? Looks at tape. Yes, yes it was.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I was the weird applicant. Fortunately my boss could not see it over the phone. I have a part Husky who talks, he is random and he is LOUD. I have tried hiding from him for phone interviews and that does not work. So when my current boss called to interview me, I got up on my bed and had him beside me. I rubbed his belly for the duration of the interview. She talked to me for over an hour. I tried changing hands. I tried sitting in different positions. At the end of the interview I was whooped. He did not make a sound. Years later she said it would not have mattered if he did. (palm to head)

      I interviewed for a temp job a while later. At this point in the story, I am sick of rubbing the dog’s belly to get through an interview. I was not as attentive as I had been in the past. He started talking, woo-woo, wooooo-woo-woooo, omg. The interview totally ignored it, said nothing and hired me anyway. Yep. She had a dog, too.

    4. Tedious Cat*

      I knew a woman who moved from NYC to the South and got an interview at a mutual friend’s company. She wore a purple velvet suit to said interview. When she didn’t get the job, mutual friend tried to gently explain that the suit was unlikely to make a professional first impression in the South. Interviewee was apparently quite offended by this feedback, as that was her POWER SUIT.

  31. Alet*

    So, sorry about not replying to anyone last week – I have a hard time with comment-style stuff (who do you reply to when five people say the same thing??). But anyway, it turns out everything was fine both because 1. I found a nice skirt and dress in the back of my closet and 2.”Business casual” apparently means “95% of everyone is wearing jeans with a nice top” here, so I had nothing to worry about to begin with!

    1. Aleta*

      Oops, my name should be “Aleta.” The ads do NOT play nice with my work computer and I can’t install an ad blocker.

  32. Shannon*

    Need some advice. My job is working with hospital patients, on the insurance side. This is my second employer in this field and while I love the work, the job is pushing me to burn out.
    We are understaffed and there isn’t a big push to bring us back up. People are constantly moved around (both physically and in duties). The work load is impossible to meet but I’m working with peoples’ bills and money so I can’t let things fall through.
    My office space itself is chaos. The people I share a space with have a very high speaking volume. I’ve gone from seeing my boss once a month to having her here all day. And she’s high strung. For her, everything is an emergency and needs to be done immediately. If she calls me and I don’t answer the phone she’ll call my coworker and ask where I am. I shouldn’t have to explain to another adult that sometimes I need to use the bathroom.
    Did I mention the pay is not great, the benefits are expensive, and we didn’t even get a cost of living raise?
    I was moved here to this employer after my previous employer lost the hospital contract, I didn’t seek this company out.
    Financially, I can’t change jobs for a few months. How do I survive until changes happen???

    1. Pollygrammer*

      Ugh, I’m sorry, that sounds miserable. Focus on the you-can-get-out-in-a-few-months part.

      Sometimes you have to recognize that impossible is impossible, no matter how important it is. Firemen put out fires, it’s their job, and it’s important. But if they don’t have any water, they’re not expected to go on putting out fires. That’s how it is when you’re overworked and understaffed.

      1. As Close As Breakfast*

        Or, to build on the fireman analogy, sometimes there are 4 different fires but only one fire truck with 3 firemen in it. Pollygrammer is right, recognize these times as the impossible situations that they are.

  33. AwkwardestTurtle*

    Has anyone used a Passion Planner…and this may sound silly…for a job you’re not really passionate about?

    I initially bought one this year to try and work on my career goals outside of work (they are only tangentially related to my job) and to try to build up a side hustle. It’s only a few weeks in but I feel like it’s tough to use it for that purpose since I’m basically leaving all the work time blank, and I haven’t had much free time to work on the outside-of-work career goals.

    Considering using the planner for the job I don’t love even though only a very small amount of it would help with my career goals. Since using the planner I’m much more organized in my home life but am still struggling a bit to be more organized at work.

    1. Matilda Jefferies*

      I just use mine as a planner, without the Passion part. :) Honestly, if you’re not loving your job I don’t think the planner will make much of a difference – it’s not going to create passion where you don’t have it already. You could maybe use it to figure out what a “good enough” version of your job looks like, so you can spend more time and energy on your outside life? Or use it to figure out a way out of your job, and into something you would enjoy more?

      It doesn’t necessarily have to be for something you’re passionate about – just anything that needs goals and strategies and some long-term thinking. Or heck, just your day to day life, if that’s all you need it for. It’s just a tool, and you can use it any way you want!

      1. AwkwardestTurtle*

        There’s a lot of aspects of my job that I love (great bosses, new challenges, flexibility, good pay/benefits), I’m just not passionate about a lot of aspects of the work. I do think if I were more organized with work I would be able to focus more on the side hustle. So it might be a good idea to start including real-job if the passion planner. You’re totally right that it’s just a tool to set goals – they don’t *have* to be for something I’m passionate about if it’d improve my quality of life.

    2. KR*

      I wish I was the type of person to keep up with a planner because I am obsessed now that I’m looking at the website. My problem is I always start out using them and then abandon it after a month. I used them in school a lot so maybe when I return to school I’ll splurge to help keep work and school balanced.

      1. AwkwardestTurtle*

        I had not plannered since high school until the ripe old age of 26 when I was feeling overwhelmed just keeping my personal commitments straight. I was so impressed by how much less stressed I felt when everything was in the planner. This is my first year using the Passion Planner and I looooove it. I’ve found that making a time to look at it every day (either on the bus on my way to work in the morning, or during my wind-down-from-work routine when I get home) makes a huge difference.

    3. Goya de la Mancha*

      I just bought a Panda Planner in hopes of accomplishing the same thing. As far as scheduling goes, I use google calendar and don’t see that changing in the near future. I’m hoping the panda planner will help me improve and refine other aspects of my life (health, profession, self care, etc.)

      1. AwkwardestTurtle*

        Oooh, I had not heard of these! They look awesome! I almost wish I had known about these before I got the Passion Planner although I do love it.

    4. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

      If the tool isn’t right for you stop using it and don’t let it make you feel bad.

      /somewhat of a side track that wasn’t really what you asked… but seemed like a good time to offer it up.

      I’d also really look at the need to find passion :) I have to be honest, I kind of wish that word would go away for awhile until people relearn how to use it realistically.

      I love my husband, passionately even some times, but after a long week of tough deadlines and high stress. Yeah, it’s good enough to just love him and appreciate him. Passion can wait until I’m not ready to crawl under the bed and hide.

      Work, I can be passionate at work, (see tough deadlines and stress above). But I’ll be damned if I expend that much energy to be passionate about my career and job. I like it, I have fun, and it allows me to live the life I want to live. That’s good enough for me :)
      /end sidetrack

      1. AwkwardestTurtle*

        Oh, I love the tool so far. Just initially when I bought it I was planning on not using it for the real-job and just try to help me focus on building a side hustle I’m passionate about. I love a lot about my job, but it isn’t going to be long-term. I am in a role where people typically last 2-4 years and I’m in year 3. There’s no real room for growth past where I am. People keep asking me what I want to do next/what my career goals are, so I guess I figured I’m better poised at this point in my life to explore the side-hustle as the full-time gig.

        But so far I don’t feel like I’ve had any time/motivation for the side hustle, although I feel much more organized and happy in my personal life. So I thought maybe it’d be helpful to use it for real-job so I can be more organized and thus happier, thus having more time/energy for the side-hustle.

    5. Lumen*

      Man, I hate it when stationery comes with a side of The Emotion(s) You Should Feel While Using This Stationery. Like this one notebook I saw that had this list of commands on the front: BE BRAVE BE BOLD BE LIGHT BE CREATIVE BE THIS BE THAT BE ALL THE THINGS and it just stressed me OUT. Good lord, I just want to write notes in you without worrying if I’m passionate enough!

      Anyway.

      I use a bullet journal for the vast majority of my life, and I have a $7 weekly planner from a department store for keeping track of tasks and such at work. The bullet journal is endlessly adaptable for me (whether I want it to be a basic to-do list or a very pretty planner filled with ideas and trackers depends on the day/week) and the planner is all I need for a job that I am not ‘passionate’ about. I write down stuff I need to remember and that’s it.

      1. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

        Reminds me of the nagging homework book that Hermione got everyone to study for their exams.

        “If you’ve dotted the i’s and crossed the t’s then you may do whatever you please!”
        “Do it today or later you’ll pay!”
        “Don’t leave it till later, you big second-rater!”
        ~J.K. Rowling

      2. Matilda Jefferies*

        Man, I hate it when stationery comes with a side of The Emotion(s) You Should Feel While Using This Stationery.

        Oh, me too. That was actually part of my problem with Bullet Journal – I got lost in the Pinterest rabbit hole, and started to feel that my design skills were inadequate to the task of Bullet Journalling! I know there’s a similar one for the Passion Planner, but I’ve managed to avoid it so far. I’ve also given myself the same talk I gave AwkwardestTurtle above, that it’s totally okay to use this for non-passion-related things!

      3. AwkwardestTurtle*

        A lot of the reason I bought a Passion Planner is I didn’t want the headache of organizing a bullet journal and knew I would lose interest in it quickly because of the initial work. I need structure/organization and would rather spend my creative energy elsewhere than planning how to make my planner.

        I bought a cheap planner for work and stopped using it after a day. Since using the Passion Planner feels fun (I also invested in some fun inky pens for it) I’m more motivated to do the stuff in it so i thought it might help for work.

        Different stuff works for different people and that’s ok.

  34. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

    Does anyone have experience with using Upwork or other freelance job boards? I am looking into the possibility of doing some freelance work at home for extra money, but I am not sure where to start. Which job boards are the best to use? Does anyone have advice for avoiding scams when dipping into the world of freelance work?

    1. anyone out there but me*

      I am on Upwork, too. I’ve been a member for over a year but have not been active for several months. I am not sure if you are US based, but I am and I have limited my searches to US based companies only. This is because the last time I was searching, I put in quite a few submissions and every response I received was from a foreign company and turned out to be some sort of a shady deal (and I researched to make sure it was shady before I made the determination).

      So far I have not received any good responses this time around, but I just started about a week ago so we’ll see what happens.

    2. Matilda Jefferies*

      I have absolutely no advice on your actual question, but I wanted to drop in and say that I love your username!

    3. LilySparrow*

      I spent a couple of years freelance writing on Upwork and Guru. The interfaces are a bit different but the overall experience/caveats are about the same.
      If you have zero experience freelancing and no client base, they can be an easy way to pick up a few projects to create a portfolio. Finding clients who are prepared to pay what your time is worth is difficult unless you are in a very specialized niche.

      You can set minimum budgets in your searches, which is helpful. Only submit to clients with a verified payment method. Check the client’s feedback. I had some decent experiences with clients who were new to the platform and had no feedback yet. I also had some unpleasant experiences that way.

      I’d recommend focusing on gigs with an hourly rate until you have a good sense of how to price projects. I underpriced myself badly on my first several gigs. When you do bid on non-hourly projects, make sure to use the milestone and escrow system, so the money for the next phase of work is waiting for you before you start.
      Never agree to be paid outside the system. If you agree to email directly with a client, always copy anything about scope, deadlines, or changes to the brief into the platform’s message system.
      Look for clients whose business model requires ongoing work from you, rather than one-off projects. It’s better to retain good clients than constantly have to pitch.
      If you live in the US or another high-cost of living country, you will likely price yourself out of the market as you get experience. But by that time hopefully you’ll have a good portfolio, some clients you can take with you and the experience you need to run the business side for yourself.

    4. PopFunk*

      Try Fiverr. You post up your skills (they call it a gig) and buyers find you. I am based in Australia and get a few gigs a week. Minimum price you must charge is $5. I have tried Upwork too, but only found one decent client to work with. On Fiverr, the majority of buyers are repeat clients.

  35. Ten*

    This summer I started a job in a brand-new field after being out of work for a bit due to a mass layoff. I was optimistic at first, but time has revealed that the job is really a bad fit for me for multiple reasons. After I came home crying for the fourth time in six days, my husband put his foot down and told me to start looking for something else. But I’m torn; we’re trying to buy a house this spring and have some other plans that changing jobs would likely interrupt or complicate significantly. Should I request a transfer to a different department instead? If so, how would I go about that? I’m pretty sure switching departments would help with my primary issue, but the others would stay the same.

    1. Alice*

      That sounds tough. What’s the reason for the bad fit? The industry, or the company, or the job duties, or some really specific factor like your current manager? In real life there are probably many reasons, but if you can identify the top one or ones, you can try and solve those and see if it helps.

      1. Ten*

        I think it’s the field more than anything… it’s law, which is known for not exactly being easy to thrive in. Long-term I don’t think it makes sense to stay, even on another team, because I don’t see any opportunity for advancement in the direction I want to go. But I can’t shake the worry that jumping ship will just make life harder in the immediate future.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Get your job situation calmed down before buying a house. Not everyone, but some people can think that once they get a house they have to stay in Current Job no matter what. The reason for this is unforesseen expenses with the new house.

          We got lucky here. My husband was in a toxic job. But with everything else the stars were in alignment. We bought the house. He made the jump about a year or two later. Making that move to a new job was a bfd.
          We were lucky because it turned out to be one the better workplaces he had in his life. The new job was not ideal but, you know, does ideal really exist? So he stayed at it. What we found when we bought this house is that the people who were advising us were not even close in their estimates of what we would shell out. We spent every single penny we earned for the first six months we were here. Fortunately, at the six month mark we got raises then shortly after that my husband got a new job and we exhaled. Just to try to drive the point home, we bought a house that was 1/3 LESS than what we had been approved for. So we bought a modest house and still ending up rolling our pennies.

    2. WellRed*

      You came home crying four out of six days. Start looking. Maybe the house buying gets pushed back a bit, etc. Not easy, I know, but… your job makes you cry.

      1. Ten*

        You know, I was about to start typing something like, ‘Well that was a particularly bad week…’ and then I stopped and thought, wait, why am I defending this?

        You’re right, I need to leave. I guess my real question is, does it make more sense for me to leave right now or to transfer to another department to make things tolerable until I leave a year or so from now?

        1. Triumphant Fox*

          I think it makes sense for you to start looking right now. It sounds like another department won’t help that much and considering your short tenure, I doubt a transfer request will do much other than signal that you’re unhappy.

          I’m sorry you’re going through this and I hope you find something awesome. If there’s any way for you to detach while at the office, do that as much as possible. If you need to quit this instant, then do so. You would probably be a lot happier working something flexible, if not super high paying and prestigious, while you look for a better full-time job anyway. I don’t know how long you’ve been at this job, but it sounds like it won’t go on your resume anyway, so bowing out earlier may be the best option.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            All of this. If you’ve only been in this job a couple of months, it’s highly unlikely your boss and HR would approve a transfer – they just hired you to do the job you’re in. Unfortunately, I think you’re going to have to push back the house buying plan and quit this job for your sanity/next job search’s sake. Job searching while in a terrible environment can lead you to taking up yet another bad job just to leave the one you’re currently in. You don’t want to do that.

    3. Ellie*

      Pick up your purse and GO. Your mental and emotional well being matter much more than money, and houses will still be waiting for you when you’re in a better job. Life is what matters- a job, even a career, is only a portion of your whole experience.

    4. Anono-me*

      Get out now!

      Find a job where you come home in a healthy state of mind at least 90-95% of the time. It is normal to have stressful or hard days once in a while, but not everyday. Ideally, in most jobs, you should come home and cry due to work no more than once every 5 years.

      Once you have found a new job. You can consider both your new salary and your new commute when looking for the new house.

      Remember most people spend more of their awake time at work than at home.

  36. Zahra*

    My (now former) employer laid off a ton of people Tuesday. In my department, about 3/4 were laid off. We did see it coming and most people had brought their personal stuff home beforehand.

    I’m mostly on a go-go-go, let’s apply to jobs, contact recruiters, etc. mode right now, but I’ll need to take a break soon, I think.

    If it happened to you, any word of advice?

    1. Tara*

      I had a “come in on Monday, told to go home because we can’t pay you” company go bankrupt kind of experience, and it sucked! We knew things were bad but we thought there’d be more layoffs, not a shutdown. I just went deep into “excel sheet of job applications” to track that I was applying to a certain amount of jobs each day. (I was young, so they were all entry-level type things.)

      Get out of the house if you can. I was kind of forced to because the people we were stealing our wifi from left town for a couple weeks and turned it off (the network name was WeKnowYoureStealingTheWifi, it was fine). It made me pack a lunch and go somewhere with free internet to apply for jobs. Keeping to that routine, sort of keeping the work day for job searching and keeping evenings for relaxing, made me not become overwhelmed with anxiety.

      Best of luck! Also, “My company laid everyone off” is the easiest answer I ever had for the “why are you job searching” question ;)

    2. Argh!*

      Therapy. Exercise. Appointments. Any kind of appointments that give you a reason to leave the house

    4. baconeggandcheeseplease*

      I’m sorry! This has happened me a couple of times and it sucks every time. If you haven’t given yourself time to be upset/angry/whatever, I would definitely take the weekend from the “find a job” frenzy and just relax/decompress.

      After you’ve done that, try to set yourself up for the week, whether that’s just getting a lot of sleep, or going grocery shopping, or planning out your time or whatever. I think it’s helpful if you try to keep some sort of schedule/agenda for the day, then when you’re done for that, to do stuff in your personal life.
      I’m sort of bad at that type of structuring, so I would just tell myself I need to apply to X number of jobs today, or I need to reach out x number of people (or both).

      Don’t forget to reach out to your network, if you liked your manager and they can help connect you. Most people are happy to help in these situations.

      Interview scheduling: make sure you give yourself time in between interviews esp. if you’re scheduling two/more in one day. I found that 2 in one day (for hour or less interviews) was my limit, maybe 3 if one was a phone interview.

      Don’t forget to do fun things and give yourself breaks. Good luck!!

    5. tab*

      I second the recommendation of exercise. I started going to the Y every day, and it helped me. Also, let *everyone* know that you’re looking for a job. It’s a good way to find out about openings. My layoff led me to starting my own business. It was something I’d never been interested in, but when people heard I was available, I started getting offers to consult. So, I got set up with Legal Zoom, GoDaddy for email & website, and a CPA that my neighbor recommended. That was eight years ago, and I’m making much more money than I ever did working for someone else, and I have more free time to travel. And, I still go to the Y! Good luck, this will lead to good things for you.

    6. Earthwalker*

      Once you’re organized for job searching it doesn’t take up as much of the day as it did at first. You can take half days for morale boosting activities like exercise, hikes, going to free events, and such, but not lolling around the house. You can consider it part of the job search effort since you need to keep an upbeat attitude so that you’re energetic and optimistic in interviews.

    7. Zahra*

      I meant to post this Saturday, but thank you all for your advice!

      I do get out of the house pretty much everyday: recruiters quickly got the word about the lay off and are reaching out to employees. I’ve been to at least one interview a day since last Wednesday. Most of them are recruiting agencies, but you never know where a good job offer might come from!

  37. Junior Dev*

    I am on my second week of the new job. Feeling a lot less anxious about it but it’s still pretty overwhelming.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      You know, it’s really common and understandable to feel overwhelmed and anxious in a new job. The fact your anxiety is going down at this early stage is a really good sign. You’re doing great, and I’m willing to bet you’re on the up and up. Hang in there.

    4. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      That is awesome progress! (I don’t think I’d manage to get to “a lot less anxious” in only my second week of a new job.)

  38. AdAgencyChick*

    Just venting: Right now I feel like my coworkers think that kid commitments are more important than other commitments (I’m in a performing group and they were pressuring me hard yesterday to skip a rehearsal to stay at work late, but the coworkers who need to leave at 5:30 to pick up their kids are never questioned).

    Annoying.

    2. Princess Carolyn*

      If it were truly a matter of whose commitments are more important, I’d give priority to parents picking up their kids because, y’know, the well-being of a child is at stake. But of course that’s a false choice: it doesn’t matter whose commitment is more important because everyone deserves a certain level of predictability in their schedule so they can have a life outside of work. It sucks that your co-workers are focused on what you’re doing with your free time rather than whether you’re entitled to it.

    3. Penny*

      Totally in your shoes as well. It’s like if you’re single or childfree your time isn’t as important.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      Super annoying. I’ve had to leave work early for ice show rehearsals; fortunately no one gave me any flak. If pressed about that, my response would be, “Sorry, but I cannot. Other people are depending on me to be there.”

    5. Sabrina Spellman*

      I’ve actually experienced the opposite (in my mind, at least) of this at my work. Coworker requested a day off for something to do with their child, but was denied because another coworker was already given the day. They were furious, but first come first serve on vacation days in a small office!

    6. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Ooh, I have been there. Rehearsals have been on the same night, at the same time, for years. I am always willing to work around them, but this is not news. When I had a really short commute, I was always willing to stay later and come in earlier than the people who had much longer train rides, but I had to be out of there no later than 6:15 every Tuesday. You have my sympathies.

    7. Camellia*

      Yeah, this reminds me that reading is my passion, my joy, my main hobby, but I have had numerous people approach me over the years and say, “Oh good, you’re not doing anything! Can you blah blah blah.”

    8. Student Affairs Professional*

      Ooohh yeah, this really grinds my gears. I don’t have any helpful advice but can commiserate. I worked at a nonprofit doing community education programs, and we were a team of three. My boss had a child, and co-worker and I did not. She would look at our upcoming calendar of requests and divide it out so that anything outside of “normal” working hours went to co-worker and I (including super early mornings at schools, weekend programs, and late evening programs) and she would take everything that fell between 10 and 4 because she had a child in daycare. I mean, I understand that, but it also made co-worker and I really annoyed that boss NEVER worked an evening or weekend when we did pretty much every single week.

      I would phrase things as “appointments” though – I feel like that garners less questioning, because it sounds official and people may assume it’s a doctor’s visit and you must be there. “Oh, I can’t stay late today, I have an appointment I need to get to.” It’s nobody’s business but yours whether your appointment is with a doctor, a therapist, a kickboxing class, or with your dog to take a walk. A child shouldn’t be the only acceptable reason to need to leave work on time.

      1. Thlayli*

        Yes this is the quick fix. Instead of trying to convince them that attending a rehearsal is as important as feeding a child dinner (which is a pretty hard sell) instead just say you have an appointment you can’t get out of, so the work just will have to wait until the next day.

  39. krysb*

    Hey, a question for those who went to school in Europe as an international student. Where did you go? How did you afford it?

    1. fposte*

      Can you give a little more detail? Does year-abroad stuff count or do you mean pursuing the whole degree there?

      1. krysb*

        Whole masters program. If I go to the UK, it’ll be one year, but most other schools in Europe will be two. I’m really only looking at schools that accept federal student loans, but in most cases, those loans aren’t enough to pay for living costs, too.

        1. Aunt Vixen*

          I priced out my anticipated expenses in US dollars, doubled it, and that’s what I arranged to borrow (in an unsubsidized Stafford). But the dollar is doing a lot better against both the pound (especially) and the euro now than it was then. For the moment. I mean – I had some savings, but mainly I afforded it by incurring a lot of debt. I got a couple of part-time jobs as I was able but it was hard on my student visa. I counted on paying it off over a period of many, many years.

    2. rosiebyanyothername*

      I haven’t actually started yet, but in the fall I will be doing a masters in the UK. Depending on what you want to do, grad school can be much cheaper in Europe that in America, and the degrees usually take less time. Right now I’m working in an entry-level job and living at home to save up. I just graduated last spring and live within commuting distance of a major city, so it’s working out (plus my family is appreciating having me around for 1 more year before I move across the ocean). Many European countries have fellowships for international students (Fulbright, Marshall, Mitchell, etc–do your research) and most will recognize US federal aid.

    3. Buffy*

      I didn’t go myself but I had two friends go to England for a master’s program. One in public relations and the other in journalism. They both loved it and said they paid around $10k.

    4. AeroEngineer*

      I went to the Netherlands to get my masters in Aerospace Engineering at a Technical University. A lot of masters are in English here, but most bachelors are in Dutch.

      I did my bachelors in the US, but if I had done medicine I think I would have gone to St. Andrews. Would have gone there if they had had engineering in a heartbeat.

      For funding, I have EU citizenship, so the costs were lower than if I had to pay the full international fare, however, it was still a lot for me since I was funding everything on my own. I ended up working during my studies and taking out a small loan to get past my last year from the Dutch Government. However, even the full international fare is cheaper than the equivalent in the US, so I probably would have done something similar to this. I think Germany is probably the cheapest option, but you will be restricted by what you can study if you don’t speak German. But in short, save up ahead of time (or get loans etc.)

      The schools which accept federal aid are limited (I do not think my university does), I think a lot of them are in the UK or Germany. What do you want to study? Mainland Europe universities are split into technical and non-technical universities which offer different sets of options of things to study.

    5. Amey*

      What did you have in mind? Different European countries are quite different and the level you’re studying at makes a difference as well. I did my undergrad in the UK – it was a lot cheaper than going to college in the US and was 3 years instead of 4 but financial aid for international students in the UK is extremely limited. You can get US federal loans which cover some of it however, and I think these have actually gotten better since I was at uni about 13 years ago – I’ve seen postgrad students able to cover their tuition and basic living expenses through loans I afforded it through a combination of these loans and family help for tuition fees and after my first year I managed to pay my rent and modest expenses by working part time but I wouldn’t advise on counting on getting work when calculating the money you need. I’m still n the UK and work at a university as an immigration adviser for international students so this is my area – happy to answer any more specific questions if you’re interested in the UK as a destination :)

      1. Amey*

        Ah, I see you said you Masters and the UK is a possible destination – I’ve clearly had the open thread open for too long… Let me know if you have any questions I can help with.

        Just from the immigration side, be aware that for the UK you usually have to show that you have funding for the full amount of tution fees and 9 months’ living expenses (this is a set amount) up front to get your visa so you’ll need to factor that in. Also be aware that London is much much more expensive than the rest of the country so if you’re particularly worried about finances and you’ve got attractive options outside the capital, consider these! Tuition should be broadly similar but living costs are much higher.

    6. lame cab*

      I completed my masters in London about ten years ago. It was MUCH cheaper to do a one-year program than the comparable 2-year program in the US.

  40. Anthony's Song*

    I have my annual review coming up, and I’d stuck on how transparent I should be about a potential move/transfer in the next few years. One of the prompts in our review asks about your career path for the next few years, including mobility.

    My husband and I are planning to move cities, and have tentatively decided to move next summer (2019). I’m hoping to transfer within my company to another office.

    They’re directly asking about mobility in the next few years, so it feels like a lie of omission not mention my plans, but I’m concerned that mentioning the move could hurt me for the remainder of my time at Office A –
    For example, there’s a new long-term project about to begin, is it less likely that I’ll be on this project since I won’t be here to see it though?
    I’m eligible for a promotion this year, what if my current office overlooks me since I’m leaving?
    I’m applying for a leadership course in Office A (it’s a companywide program, but each office runs their own course), I will be in Office A for the duration of the course, but would I get less consideration since I won’t be in the same office soon after it’s complete?

    On the other hand, being transparent about my plans might be good, since I could then talk more openly with my supervisors about my options, and even get their advice on what offices would be a good fit for me.

    Do I mention a potential move in early 2018 when it’s over a year out, or wait until early 2019 when the move is in less than 6 months?

    TL/DR: how far in advance did you tell your company/supervisor about a planned move and internal transfer?

    1. AnonyMouse*

      Don’t have advice, but I’m curious to see others advice on how to handle this. A potential move is also further away for me (probably will start looking at the end of the calendar year), but I’m also concerned about whether or not I should be up front with my organization or not.

    2. Shaima*

      I don’t have any advice for you, but I’m interested in people’s opinions on this too! My husband and I will be moving in a year, and my organization is doing lots of long-term restructuring. We knew we wouldn’t be in our current city forever, but definitely long enough to seem “permanent” – I’ve been in my role for 2 years now, so leaving in a year won’t be bad for my career or anything. It’s probably expected that I’ll be heading out in a year or so since there’s no upward path here, but I still don’t know how to answer those questions!

    4. Lady Bug*

      Its far too early, and your plans are still tentative. The best laid plans fall through all the time for many reasons. You should at least wait until its a firm plan and no longer than a few months out.

    5. Student*

      This is just too early to share. It’s not just the timing – more than a year out! – but also the lack of actual concrete particulars, the “tentative” part.

      Specifically, you don’t actually know much about your move yourself. You have a plan, but from what you’ve said here, no actual work has gone into this yet. If you’re very senior (emphasis on very – are you at the top of your organization, responsible for major areas of business?) and going to be hard to replace, then sure, start talking at <6 months. If you're not – most of us aren't – then wait until you have 2 weeks left following traditional business conventions, or until you are so sure you're going to move that you are actively obtaining housing in the new city (preferably have finalized your new housing arrangements).

      If you don't have a place to stay in a new city, then you aren't really committed to moving their yet. Thinks might change in the interim; leave yourselves the flexibility to deal with those changes.

    6. Aly_b*

      When I did a move to transfer within the same company to a different city, I waited until I had a definite plan and more or less dates, about 6 months ahead of time. I am mid-level for seniority and was reasonably confident I could make the transfer work, but I was moving regardless (I didn’t tell them that part of it.) At 6 months ahead of time, I could start taking on new-city projects and phasing out of some of the old-city ones, but unless your business plans a lot further in advance than mine, there is no action that they could productively take 1.5 years ahead to make a transfer happen or succeed better. I’d say it’s too far out. At most if they ask specifically about geographic mobility I would say you’d be open to considering a move in the next few years – but my feeling is only if they bring it up. (I wasn’t clear from your comment if they’re asking about mobility like moving offices or mobility as in promotions.)

  41. many bells down*

    So I applied to something yesterday, and a few hours later got this email:
    Dear (not my name),
    Can you set up a phone interview with her?

    My resume and cover letter were attached. Unless (not my name) was BCCed, I am the only one who got that email. I think he meant it for his hiring manager and accidentally sent it to me? What do I say?

    1. Dorothy Zbornak*

      I think you could send a quick and upbeat reply saying “Dear X, I believe you might have sent me this email by mistake, but I would love to set up a phone interview for the X position at your convenience.”

    4. rocklobstah*

      “oops, i think you meant this for someone else” I think in this case a fast response beats a perfect one.

      also, yay!

  42. Princess Carolyn*

    More of a complaint than a question: Isn’t is so frustrating to get a rejection without a phone screen or interview when you’re totally qualified (on paper) for a job? This has happened to me two or three times this month for copy editing and social media jobs that ask for 3-5 years of experience when I have about 7 years.

    These jobs are especially puzzling because you don’t necessarily pick up new skills as you progress in copy editing, you just get better at the same skills and possibly more familiar with a certain field or style. Oh well, gotta keep looking.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I know you said you’re not really asking a question, but in case it helps: This happens because they have lots of qualified applicants and it doesn’t make sense to interview them all, so they pick the ones that impress them most out of that group (or in some cases, the first six that impress them, or so forth). So it’s not necessarily that they don’t see you’re qualified; it’s that other people are too. The other possibility, of course, is that your materials need to do a better job of showing how qualified you are — but it really could just be the first thing.

      1. Princess Carolyn*

        You’re right, as usual. I’m certainly open to reviewing my materials to see how they could be stronger, but one of the most frustrating things about this field is how hard it is to demonstrate my competence without an editing test. I would love to see what the other resumes look like, because I’m struggling to imagine how the most impressive resumes would differ from the slightly less impressive resumes. The not knowing kills me!

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          It could be the types of employers, the length of stays, the specific accomplishments listed, the education… If you have friends in the field who seem to be doing well, you could ask to see their resumes?

        2. Anna Sun*

          Ugh, that is frustrating. Agree with everything Alison said, but it could also be partially because the companies have budgeted for the compensation of someone with 3-5 years of experience, and with 7 years they assume, correctly or not, that you’d be too expensive. Good luck with your search!

        3. Not So NewReader*

          I live in a less populated area. With some jobs, if a person says they worked at X place, they jump line in the order of preference. That is because the interviewer knows that X trains their people well or some other industry insight. So the applicant who has worked at X place moves ahead of similar applicants who have not worked there.

    2. Mockingjay*

      A factor also might be salary constraint? With 7 years’ experience, you likely cost more than someone with 3 or 4 years.

  43. Alice*

    I’m feeling frustrated about the reimbursement process for professional travel at my workplace. My colleagues and I are not reimbursed for the full cost, which is standard for the industry… but lately I’ve started getting pushback on the reimbursements that do fall within our policies. “Are you sure it was 131 miles? Google says it’s 128.” I don’t like the implication that I’m trying to steal money, and I especially don’t like it when I’m swallowing a lot of costs on my own.
    It’s hard to separate this issue from the broader problem that costs associated with professional development have gone up much faster than budget allocations, in my industry and at my organization in particular. In constant dollars, the allocation at my organization today is slightly below what it was in 2007, while costs have gone up more than 200%. So, I’m inclined to be grumpy while I’m thinking about this. So, maybe I’m too sensitive to the perceived accusation.
    1. Should I do anything, other than reply that I drive X miles but I’ll accept a reimbursement for the Google Maps distance?
    2. How can I frame my thinking about this in a less negative way?

    1. misspiggy*

      Why should you accept reimbursement for less than what you drove? I’d just repeat how many miles you drove, and if in future they wish you to send photos of your trip counter please ask in advance.

      Fight nitpicking with nitpicking!

    2. KR*

      In a previous job they asked you to write down your odometer reading before and after travel to calculate your miles, and I always thought that was burdensome because I would be in my car and have to do out a pen and paper or remember to take a picture on my phone. Now I don’t have to do that but I rarely remember to set my trip meter so I just use Google Maps. I agree and think the nitpicking in your job is unnecessary. The travel costs what it costs. I wouldn’t negotiate to accept the Google Maps distance – sometimes you take different routes or you miss a turn. They can spare a few dollars to pay you fully. I think you’re allowed to show a little frustration at their travel policies, both with them questioning you and under reimbursing you.

      1. Tara*

        As someone who processed travel reimbursements, 3 miles is well within allowable and they are being too picky. Sometimes, like if the money comes from a federal grant, you have to be able to prove costs with something like a Google Maps itinerary or, like KR mentioned, pictures of your odometer before and after. However, no one reasonable is going to question what amounts to a few dollars difference.

        The person is being a bit thoughtless, but I wouldn’t automatically take it as an accusation to you personally. When I was learning, I did worse that could have been interpreted as a slight, but I didn’t mean anything by it. You could push back if you want, or your response would be adequate. Mostly try to think about how the person probably doesn’t have any opinion about you, they are just trying to do their job. (Or maybe they’re misguided like the “no guac” auditor.)

        You could also ask for the reimbursement policy, and ask for them to put in writing what “allowable” or “reasonable” looks like to them for things like mileage.

          2. Jilly*

            I believe some auditor told a person that they shouldn’t have ordered guac at Chipotle on a meal reimbursement.

    3. Anony*

      If they asked if you are sure, respond that yes you are sure. How much do they reimburse per mile that they are nitpicking about 3 miles? What incentive would there be to lie? $1?

      1. Alice*

        Thanks for the commiseration folks! I don’t think I can use the fight-nitpicking-with-nitpicking strategy — our culture really values collegiality. But I’ll think of this phrase and smile when it happens again.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      If the company is willing to spend several hours of paid labor discussing one dollar, then it might be time to move on.
      You think about how much time you used discussing the issue, how much time the pay roll person spent discussing the issue. It’s one dollar.

      I had THREE people spend 2o minutes telling me that I cannot punch out one minute beyond my quitting. Yes, we lost a total of 80 employee minutes discussing one minute of time. Things did not get better after that.

  44. cactus lady*

    I had a final-round interview this week that went really well. When I asked about their timeline for hiring (and yes I know it will probably change), they gave the date of a week before I am scheduled to have a minor surgery. I would have some lifting restrictions after but nothing that would interfere with any other job responsibilities, other than needing a few days off. If I do receive an offer and they want me to start the week that they stated in the interview, how should I handle this? Would it be better to ask to delay my start for a week or two, or to ask for a few days off right after I start?

    1. Pollygrammer*

      I’d say see if you can delay a week. Starting a job midweek is awkward, and if you ask for days off they may think you want to start using PTO right away, which wouldn’t be a good look.

    2. Tara*

      I would just explain the situation and ask them to push back the start date. These things can happen at any time, and the request is reasonable. It’s not like they’ll think you’re any less qualified if you can’t start until later. They want you, so they’ll wait! :)

    3. OtterB*

      I would tell them that you’re having minor surgery on (date) and would like to put your start date off until afterward, unless there is some reason they’d really like you to start the specified week (e.g. access to someone for training, occurrence of some infrequent event that you should get experience with) in which case you’ll need a few days off and how should that be handled?

  45. Nanny 911*

    Are the rules for interviewing/accepting an offer the same for nannying as for a “regular” job? Here’s the situation:

    I just graduated and while I’m on the job hunt, I need some temporary income. I responded to two postings in need of nannies. The first position is as a backup to their current nanny, who is still in school. Depending on her semester schedule (which won’t be known for another week), I would be working between 3 and 9 hours/week. One benefit of this position is that the mother works in the field I hope to enter, which is relatively niche, and she’s offered to look at my resume and put me in touch with some employers.

    The second position can guarantee 10-15 hours/week. She contacted me after I had talked to the first family, but I haven’t gotten back to her yet. I would prefer to work 10-15 hours/week, as opposed to the “maybe 9 but maybe only 3 hours”. Can I tell the first family that I’m interested but have other offers to consider, just like I would with a normal job? Is the career advice/connections she’s offering worth it despite the fewer hours?

    1. Penny*

      I was a nanny for years. Just be prepared for the other family to hire someone else if you tell them you have another offer – in my experience parents want to do hiring as quickly as possible and get things set in stone.

      Connections are helpful, and the connections I made as a nanny have definitely helped me later on in my “real” jobs, but I would really hesitant to work for a family that can’t guarantee set hours.

    2. Anony*

      Would you be ok with only 3 hours per week? If not, then you shouldn’t take the job. Connections can be good, but you have no guarantee that she will follow though and if there is added tension because you aren’t getting enough hours it could complicate your ability to network with her.

    3. anonagain*

      I don’t think the connections thing is worth it. I’m lousy at networking, but I did a live-in babysitting gig for a year. The mom and kid were both awesome and we had a really good relationship, but it was so important that I could always do what was in the kid’s best interest.

      I think bringing networking into that relationship has the potential to complicate it. You don’t want to find yourself subconsciously holding back information or not asking questions right away because you are trying to manage your image.

      Also, I would be cautious about mixing these two streams. I’m sure this person is great and this is unlikely, but there are people who would take a conflict with their nanny as an opportunity to badmouth them to those connections. Or it could turn out to be terrible but you feel stuck.

      Anyway, just some thoughts.

    5. Thursday Next*

      As a parent who’s hired nannies, I do like to move forward as quickly as possible. If I’ve really loved a candidate, I’ve accommodated my timeline a bit to suit her needs, but that’s happened only once. It’s been important to me to get things settled.

      While I would never “badmouth” any former nannies, I would not help ones who didn’t fulfill their core responsibilities of keeping my kids safe or being reliably present. It’s the same as any other job—you need to do a good job to get a good reference. The difference is that as your relationship with your employer centers around something personal, and you work in her personal space, even small conflicts have the potential to be magnified (because parents have to feel comfortable entrusting their children and home to you). Just my two cents!

    6. Jessi*

      I am a full time nanny and have been for coming up 6 years now. I would take the 10-15 job as its guaranteed income. Once you have a signed work agreement/ contract you could reach out to the first position and say to the mum – “it was so lovely to meet you/ talk to you on the phone, but I have been offered another position that has guaranteed me more hours. I would love to stay in touch with you about niche industry and wish you all the best in your search for a nanny”.

  46. Mirth & Merry*

    Short and sweet question/poll: Is there a difference between giving notice on a Friday vs Monday?

    It would be a standard two-week notice, we will just be receiving our bonus checks on Friday and I’m (probably unreasonably) worried about it being rescinded or something if I give notice the same day.

    1. Pollygrammer*

      The Monday after bonus-check-Friday would be my vote. A little bit less “thanks for the cash, peace out.”

    2. Eva*

      Well, it can make a difference depending on how your employer counts the two weeks and if there is an incentive for giving two weeks. For eg. my old job had a policy that PTO was only paid out if you gave a full two weeks. They also didn’t count the day you gave notice as part of the two weeks. If you gave notice today your last day would be Feb 2nd but if you gave notice Monday your last day would need to be Feb 5th to count as two weeks.

      As for the bonus, once it’s in your account they can’t take it back. Deposits are usually done in the morning so could you check your account to ensure it’s there and then give notice that day?

  47. FFS*

    So this week, the conversation I have been preparing for (but dreading) with my boss and my next level boss took place. (https://www.askamanager.org/2017/12/open-thread-december-29-30-2017.html#comment-1780787)
    It went… strangely. Just prior to the meeting, the two other senior people in my office resigned, so that gave me some weird power and put leadership in a hardcore reaction mode. What I thought would be a big fight turned into a strange combination of flattery and bullying. I walked out of the meeting with a promotion, a raise for me and my team, and most of my requirements met (at least the immediate ones). I’m proud of myself that I said everything I wanted to say (even the stuff I probably should not have said). Some items might have some resolution, some are bigger picture culture issues that are going to take time. Lots of promises were made that I feel like I should at least give them a chance to make or break, ha. Unexpected outcome, and I am still processing it all…

  48. Anon here again*

    Maybe I’ve just been in toxic places, but is it normal for co-workers to go out of their way to make you feel bad? I just started my job 3 months ago and there is one woman who has hated me from day 1. She hides it from the boss, but she gives me dirty looks and will say “Good morning” to everyone except me. Sometimes she talks to me if someone else or the boss is around, but one on one she doesn’t really care for me.

    That’s fine. I don’t have to be friends with everyone. My issue is that people have to go out of their way to act snippy and spiteful for whatever reason. Any thoughts?

    1. Penny*

      I went through this at my former job, which I just left. My coworker (who was also my supervisor) just didn’t like me, as a person. She was dismissive and talked to me like I was stupid. The thing that helped was knowing I had lots of other work friends (unsurprisingly, my coworker didn’t) and spending time with them, and keeping my head high.

      When I had my exit interview I was really honest about the way I had been treated and it felt REALLY good.

    3. College Career Counselor*

      Couple of thoughts come to mind:
      1) did you take “her” job? (ie, was she an applicant for the position you hold)
      2) was a friend/colleague of hers an applicant ?
      3) can you kill her with kindness?

      1. Anon here again*

        1.) No- I am in a newly created position. She is actually in a higher (manager) position. She gets paid more than I do.
        2.) Not sure
        3.) I am trying to do that, but it hurts when she makes mean comments, but I just act like I don’t notice and still am polite around her.

    4. Amelia*

      I have a co-worker like that. Try not to let them get under your skin. Mine tried to make me look like an idiot in a meeting but I’m fairly sure the boss sees right through him. Everyone else we work with certainly does.

    5. sunshyne84*

      It’s not normal and I have one of those at my office although she never says anything directly to me. Sometimes you do have to get snippy back and let these people know that you aren’t a pushover.

    6. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      Sorry you have to deal with this. I used to have a coworker who disliked me (for reasons I knew, at least) and would do exactly this and it’s really distressing. People who do this kind of thing often do it in a way that’s only noticeable to you, so if you say something, you’re the one who comes off looking bad. It’s not like you can say “Jane didn’t say good morning to me” or “Jane glared at me” without coming off as petty, but all the instances (which a third party, like a boss, would dismiss as minor thoughtlessness instead of intentional rudeness, which you know it is) pile up and eat at you, and if you don’t want to look immature, you have to deal with it alone. It’s one thing to dislike someone for whatever reason, but it’s another to make sure that person knows it and is uncomfortable. That sucks.

      I wish I had something satisfying to suggest or at least something comforting to say, because that’s a tough spot, but the only way I know of to deal is just to stay completely professional and polite at all times. Only interact when you have to. Cultivate other office friendships, if you can, and remind yourself that you would never be so miserable that you’d actively try to make someone else miserable too. Good luck.

    7. a-no*

      I found reminding myself this is a her problem not a you problem helped. People don’t hate people off the bat for no reason, it’s usually something ridiculous that you do/are/look like that bothers HER and it really has absolutely nothing to do with you. The lady I worked with took issue that I had control over operations based on inventory arrival and I was half her age, which is absolutely ridiculous as the only control I ever enforced was ‘start with veg as fruit will be late’, everything else I left to her discretion. My sister’s maid of honor at her wedding hated me because I looked like an old roommate she had who ate her cheesecake once without asking. She still hates me because of that after knowing me for 5 years – and she’s told me this, not speculation.
      Also, I am pleasant to her constantly – even when she’s rude. But that’s because I’m a little bit petty and I like watching them squirm about how they aren’t getting the reactions they want.

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        Well said. This is the #1 most important thing to remember when someone’s being a prick to you for no reason, I think.

      2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        She hates you because you look like someone who once committed a transgression?

        People are weird.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Many times but not always, that I have seen this it is because the boss and/or upper management are toxic or even corrupt. When employees are nasty to each other it CAN be because that nastiness is actually meant for management but dealing with the actual problem would cause many more problems.

      If you can, say good morning to her and pretend that you don’t notice she hasn’t answered you. Tell yourself, “Oh she must be constipated again this morning” or whatever humorous thing you can come up with.
      Spread yourself around and be seen talking to other people. Let her mull over why no one else seems to be bothered by talking to you. While she may continue to be a problem, decide that she will not have power over you to impact your day and what you are doing.

  49. Penny*

    My boss likes to comment on how I spend my money. If I mention Uber or going out for dinner (which I can afford), she acts like I’m being lazy or wasteful. She makes little pointed comments that are “joking” but really bug me. I am a young person with a social life, she leads a very different lifestyle and doesn’t get it. How can I nicely tell her to STFU?

    1. Pollygrammer*

      Can you joke back? “Actually, we’re planning to dine ‘n dash, so it’s cool.” “My friend is insisting. I was planning to stay home and work on the jigsaw puzzle I got at Goodwill.”

      Can you stop giving her information about your social activities? (Not always an option, I know).

      1. Penny*

        I did default back to not giving her any information, but she still says stuff like, “Going out this weekend? Going to use Uber tonight?!” Ugh.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Bullyboss at OldExjob used to do that to me. I just answered his questions as though they were sincere, sometimes with very bullshit answers, and it took the wind right out of his sails. He wasn’t looking for answers, just a reaction.

        2. Natalie*

          For this kind of thing, can you just sort of ignore it and then deflect? Something like “Uh…. [look a little perplexed] Anyway, about those TPS reports.” and then keep talking to she has to focus on the TPS reports and gets distracted from her weird interest in your finances.

    2. KR*

      I think if she makes a finances related dig you coukd say, “Thats nice of you to be concerned but I’ve budgeted for it/the cost is worth it to me.” If you think you can swing it, after she says one of those things you could say, “Sometimes when you say stuff like that I get the impression you don’t think I manage my money well. We lead very different lives and I’ve got a good handle on my budget. You don’t need to worry about me!” I think framing it as a , “Thanks for worrying but please no seriously STAHP” opposed to telling her she’s rude outright might work. Also focusing on budgets/alotting money in your responses might highlight that you’ve got
      this under control. After that I would make it very boring for her to mention your spending habits. “It was in the budget this month.” “I didn’t find it wasteful at all.” “I’m sure we have different budgets and spending habits. Uber rides are something I feel comfortable spending on.” “Well I’m glad eating at home works for you – I love Vietnamese fusion so I’m going to continue allotting money to it.” “Oh what? Mm-hmm.”

    3. CatCat*

      I’d pull back on sharing details and just be vague/non-committal. “What did you do this weekend?” “Oh, not much.”/”Oh, just spent time with friends.”/”Oh, just caught up on some chores.”

      You can also not smile or say anything when she makes a “joke.” Meet it with impassive-faced silence. Let it be awkward.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Why not just say it? “You seem to be pretty concerned about how I spend my money. I would like for us to talk about this once and land this plane rather than talking about it frequently. What is it that you would like me to know?”
      Then when she says her piece, just say, “thanks, I will take it under consideration”. Then do as you wish. But meanwhile, at any future references you can say, “I think we discussed this once and I would prefer not to keep talking about it.”

  50. Alexis*

    So, I’m in my first actually normally functional job now after a string of… oddities. I’ve been here about three weeks now. Yesterday during training I got more visibly frustrated with an issue than I would have liked, and while things went well other than that, I ended up noting to my supervisor that I’m on the autism spectrum – managed and controlled, and my own responsibility, but I figured she had a right to know why sometimes I might lock up for a moment before readjusting myself and that once I was finished with training the that issue would disappear.

    Later I overheard my supervisor and one of the people helping me with training talking away from me in a nearly-empty office in near-whispers about someone sharing my pronouns, concluding with “What have we gotten ourselves into?”

    I know I’m probably overreading this, but – have I messed up permanently? Prior to this, supervisor seemed to be appreciating me and my work, and Overboss seems to still like me. Should I have kept this to myself? Does anyone else on the spectrum have advice on how to cover up being overloaded?

    1. Tara*

      That sucks. I’m sorry you had to go through that.

      You can’t do much about things overheard. I would focus on how people treat you in person, take cues from there. Continue to work hard and adjust (normal for anyone in a new position), and if you feel like someone might be reacting to your coping mechanisms, a breezy comment along the lines of “working on that new-job learning curve” or “ok, now I get it. Just learning how things work here! :)” could disarm.

      You did not mess up permanently. It really hard to do that, actually. Best of luck to you!

    2. miyeritari*

      Given the (ugh) mass-media generalizations that surround the autism spectrum, I imagine your boss is thinking you’re going to be a handful or completely unreliable or something. Just keep doing well, doing what you’re doing, handling your stuff, and (hopefully) your boss will be like “Wow! I totally thought that hiring a person on the autism spectrum would be crazy because I watch unrealistic depictions on TV, but this person is super cool and and a great employee.”

    3. Someone else*

      I don’t know if this helps, but for now, if you can, try to assume until given evidence otherwise that they weren’t actually talking about you. A pronoun-match alone needn’t be a strong indicator. I totally get why your mind went there, really. But I try to think about French farces: acting on the overheard-and-assumed-it-was-about-a-particular-person can go into a wacky direction. So, for now, just don’t let yourself believe it.
      If you find out later you were right, deal with that then. But for now, resist what you think you overheard.

  51. Paperclip*

    Has anyone ever applied for a job (or have advertised a job) that asked the candidate not to include their name? I’ve only recently been aware these kinds of ‘blind’ applications are even used.

    I get the intention behind it is to ensure candidates can’t accuse the employer of not moving forward with an application due to some protected category (that may get revealed by the name), but it makes me wonder why they’d have to go so far. If it’s a place that does discriminate on those grounds, you’d probably wouldn’t want to be there at all would you?

    1. fposte*

      That kind of discrimination often isn’t conscious, though. The big parallel is with music, where once they enacted blind auditions orchestras got a lot more diverse. I think there’s too much other information in an application package for this to neatly eradicate class and race signs, but I wouldn’t mind it becoming a norm, as it seems a pretty easy way to at least lessen such discrimination.

      So I’d be likelier to be favorably disposed to a company that hired that way.

      1. Colette*

        It seems like a more effective solution would be to have someone who isn’t involved in hiring assign each resume an identifier and remove the name (anywhere it appears on the resume) when they first receive it.

        Or use an ATS that does it for them.

        I mean, my email address contains my name, so if you remove my name from the resume, it’ll still be there in the email address.

        1. fposte*

          Yes, that’s absolutely true–I was focusing on the idea on not the procedure. So points for the idea but not so much for the execution.

          1. Colette*

            Oh, that’s how I read your comment. I’m just always puzzled when someone comes up with an idea that’s both more complicated and less effective than it could be.

      2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        Yep. And there have been multiple studies done where changing the name on a resume or job application made an enormous different in response rates.

        1. Lillian Gilbreth*

          A very good study on this is available for free on NBER! Are links allowed here? I’ll post a link in a follow up but if you google “Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination” the second result is the NBER page and you can click through to a PDF. It’s a little on the technical side (it’s an econometric analysis) but it’s very well done and (imho) compelling.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      We have a blind application process but the way it works is that someone in HR removes the names, swapping them all to initials, before anyone does any screening or shortlisting – the panel only get your name after you’ve confirmed you’ll attend an interview. So Ramona Flowers would be known as RF, etc.

      It’s not about discriminating on purpose. In the orchestra example they had to go even further than blind auditions as they found they still screened out women – which stopped when they had people take their shoes off.

      It works well for us, as it means you have to shortlist according to what you actually see on the resume.

    3. Alton*

      Studies have shown that what name is used on a resume can affect responses a lot. And often, this type of bias is both unconscious and very pervasive.

      One reason I like the idea of name-blind interviews is that it removes some of the pressure from the applicants to decide how to present themselves. It sucks that people sometimes have to choose between dealing with people’s bias or changing the name they use on their resume (and possibly erasing part of who they are or feeling like they’ve compromised their integrity).

    4. Natalie*

      get the intention behind it is to ensure candidates can’t accuse the employer of not moving forward with an application due to some protected category

      Hopefully their primary intention is to reduce discrimination, not paranoia about false accusations. :)

  52. saucy den*

    How long should it take to decide whether to fill a desperately-needing-to-be-filled vacancy?

    (Throwaway handle because I KNOW co-workers read this blog and can probably pinpoint me here!)

    A little over a month ago my boss quit without notice. It was A Thing, especially right before the holidays. We were a two person department (and desperately advocating to become three people to no avail). So, already overworked, I’m now doing EVERYTHING for my department.

    And I’m super pregnant, going on leave in just a couple months.

    Since this all went down right before the holidays, I didn’t expect any decisions on how to fill the vacancy until January. Whether to promote me and hire a junior person, or keep me where I am and hire in someone more senior, do some restructuring, etc. While I would love a promotion, of course, I’d be happy with whatever is decided, so long as they bring in another warm body.

    Three weeks into January and they’re only “really close” to making a decision on what to do with the vacancy (this has been the line for two weeks).

    I am just barely holding down the fort. Things are definitely slipping through the cracks. I’m frustrated because my boss left no documentation on her role and apparently wasn’t doing much communicating higher up so no one knows what she was doing or who she was talking to to do it. And since no one knew what she was doing, there’s no preparing me for the sudden emergencies that land in my lap because oh, someone from X department didn’t realize Boss had left, but Y needs to be done NOW and no, X dept has no idea how Boss used to do it. Figure it out on your own!

    And did I mention I’m pregnant? And it hasn’t been an easy pregnancy. So I’m burning the candle from both ends trying to keep myself together personally and professionally. I’ve gone home crying more than once…and teared up in front of co-workers multiple times as well from frustration/exhaustion/hormones.

    For more reason than one, I cannot wait until this kid is born. 12 weeks without dealing with this madness. Though if they don’t get someone new in soon I know I’m just going to be stressed out about how everything will be falling apart in my absence over those three months.

    1. Pollygrammer*

      Your health, physical and mental, is WAY more important!

      If they’ve been willing to be completely reasonable to ask one poorly-equipped person to hold down the fort, it’s their own damn fault if the fort blows away.

    2. Friday*

      Hang in there. Hopefully you are close to your due date… I’m currently on mat leave and my dept is also super short-staffed and wow it really does feel amazing to be 100% removed from all that right now. And they will probably have it fixed in some fashion by the time I get back too.

      Be careful to not overwork yourself – hell, tell them that your ob is limiting you to 8 hr days until baby comes or what have you. I bet your ob will go along with it if they need some sort of formal note.

    3. Jessi*

      I mean all you can do is do what you can, document what you can’t and do your best to keep a list of stuff you can’t manage/ has slipped. Can you email the list of stuff you can’t manage to your boss and ask for a temp asap as all this stuff won’t get done without help?

  53. It's bananas*

    When I’m talking to my co-worker “Linda”, she has the tendency to look at other parts of my face while I’m talking. I’m not really sure what she’s looking at, but it’s sort of annoying and makes me feel like I’m being scrutinized. Is there any way to deal with this. Should I ask her if I have something on my face?

    1. fposte*

      Do you think you’re likely to have something on your face? If not, I would categorize this as something not worth getting into–lots of people don’t like looking into eyes, and if she’s paying attention and is a responsive colleague, I don’t see much value in trying to make her check out your pupils.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      So often when we think someone’s behavior is about us, it’s actually about them! It’s probably more likely that Linda has difficulty holding eye contact than that she’s scrutinizing your pores or something like that.

      1. Kramerica Industries*

        I think I have a tendency to look at someone’s mouth, then their eyebrows, then their nose to avoid looking them straight in the eye. Oops, never realized that this could be super awkward!

      2. Tara*

        Sometimes direct eye contact for an entire conversation is unnerving, to either party. I would personally find this if not normal, then not that odd.

    3. dr_silverware*

      Sounds annoying as all get out but she probably has trouble with eye contact. It may be due to habit, anxiety, or social neurodivergence, but it probably would be a bummer to bring up.

      1. Reba*

        Yeah, I immediately thought of neurodivergent issue because it seems like eye contact is a common struggle.

        But I also (neurotypical) totally do this–not avoiding eye contact, but looking at other parts of face, hands, clothes, whatever. It means nothing.

    4. anon24*

      Making eye contact with people for any amount of time other than a brief second makes me so uncomfortable, and if I have to do it for more than 10 seconds I end up holding back screams. One way to get around this is to look at people’s faces, or look over their shoulder if they’re far enough away to not notice I’m not actually looking at them. Maybe Linda is like me?

    5. paul*

      There’s also plenty of cultures where prolonged eye contact is actually rude; the looking people in the eye really isn’t a universal thing.

    6. KR*

      Echoing the other responses here and also if someone is talking for a long time I feel super awkward holding eye contact for a long time. If you’re having a ten minute conversation and expecting eye contact for the duration of the conversation that’s a lot of gazing into each other’s eyes!

    7. NoMoreMrFixit*

      If she is looking more at your mouth then she may have a hearing impairment. I’m partially deaf in both ears and read lips, especially if the speaker has an accent or there is a lot of background noise.

    8. Louise*

      Oh I wouldn’t say anything—this could be happening for so many reasons, which other posters have mentioned. If it’s due to a disability or neurodivergance (like autism spectrum), you could run the risk of making her feel scrutinized when she may just be trying her best to absorb the information. Or it could not be that! But either way, probably best not to touch it.

    9. RL*

      For some reason (probably reading too much) my eyes water when I hold eye contact. Plus, it’s just awkward for more than a few seconds.

  54. Xarcady*

    How do you track work that moves back and forth between two departments?

    Background–I’m an editor. My company publishes certain documents, so we have an inhouse formatting team. At any time, I’m overseeing anywhere from 20-100 documents that are in the process of being edited or proofread, sent to Formatting for changes, coming back from Formatting and needing to be proofread, sent back to Formatting for further changes or for final files to be produced. Some documents go back and forth between departments 5 times a day, so it can be a fairly quick turnaround. Other stuff takes days, depending on the nature of the job.

    There are also about 5 project managers who can swoop down at any minute and want to know what stage all their projects are in. This is where I’m having difficulties–I have a general idea, but can’t state exactly what stage of the process each related file is in, without having to check emails and folders on the network.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for a simple way to track the documents, especially the ones that zip back and forth multiple times a day? We have nothing set up to track this. I have Excel and Access and Word, and a fair amount of database experience, so I probably could set something up myself. There is no hope of getting anyone else to enter or update data at this time.

    2. Mary (in PA)*

      Ugh, version control. The trickiest of the editing problems.

      Is there any way the formatting tasks can be divorced from the editing tasks? If you can do that, you could theoretically edit in Google Docs or on Sharepoint, both of which log who does what and when.

      Do you enforce saving-as instead of saving? In my past editorial lives, I got into the habit of appending my initials and the document version to the end of the filename. Everyone who touches that document after me adds their own initials and version number, so you can kind of have a trail of who’s done what. That might work if you’re working off of a shared drive.

      If everything must travel via email, then maybe there’s an admin or someone else who can be CC’d on all the document-related correspondence to keep track of everything. One thing that would probably help is to enforce rigid subject-line rules on everything that has to do with the documents, so you don’t get into situations where the most recent version is attached to an email called “RE: Re: re: final version” or something else equally useless.

      1. KR*

        We have SharePoint in our company and I love it! Other companies we have got a shared drive or Google doc and bounced it between us so everyone can make edits.

        1. Tara*

          Yes to a shared drive/space. Also, naming conventions for files. Either Save As with agreed formatting (append doc name with initials and date edited, like “WhitePaper43_JD01192018.doc” and then next person is “WhitePaper43_BM01202018” or “WhitePaper43_BM01192018_V2”) This requires buy in from everyone using the documents, but I find it really helpful, and have worked in offices where it is not an issue once established.

    3. Reba*

      would a software like Asana or Smartsheet be an option? no experience first hand with either of those, just heard of them. Or some kind of version control system?

      1. Mary (in PA)*

        There are probably tons of software version-control solutions, but the major issue is enforcement with the people working on the documents. The most sophisticated software system is going to collapse if people aren’t using it.

        OP, do you have the power to enforce consequences for non-compliance, or is this something that you’d just like people to do to make your life easier? Either way is fine, I’m just curious as to where you’re coming from.

        1. Xarcady*

          I have no power. Bottom of the heap, that’s me. I’m not even supposed to be doing this job, but the person who should is out on medical leave for a couple of months, and this just got tossed my way.

          The formatters are working in software like InDesign, which the editors don’t know and don’t have access to.

          We do have a good system for archiving all the saved versions of each file. And each job, or batch of a job, is supposed to have one email thread that keeps on going for the life of the job. But there is one formatter who refuses to do this and creates new email threads constantly. He also forgets who is supposed to be CCd on the emails and it has fallen to me to check the addresses on all his emails and forward them to project managers and department managers. That is, when he remembers to include me on the emails–but that’s a separate issue.

          But I don’t have any quick way of determining the progress of an entire job; and sometimes tracking down the progress of a single file can take several minutes of checking emails and folders.

          Part of the problem, I think, is that until 2 years ago, this was all done on paper, with large paper files being passed between departments. Now the process is paperless, with the formatters creating PDF files of each new version for the editors to check. So the process has been updated, but the tracking has not. On the plus side, things move much more quickly.

          Disaster hasn’t struck yet, but things are ramping up after the holidays and I’m starting to feel like things are getting out of control and something is going to slip through the cracks if I’m not very, very careful.

          1. Mary (in PA)*

            Understood. It sounds like things there aren’t nearly as bad as I was envisioning. :)

            From what you’ve laid out here, the major issue seems to lie with Formatter Guy (FG). Is it worth pushing back on FG, or even on FG’s boss, about him not telling you where his files are in the process, or making new email threads that he isn’t supposed to be making, or leaving you off of email chains that you should be on? Because if you have a good process that 95% of your people are following, then it’s not necessarily the process that’s broken (at least in my mind.) It seems like if you can solve the problem of FG, then you can make some further strides with your chosen tracking solution. I think there may also be software solutions that integrate with your email, so that another email address added to the chain can dump something out into another program that a project manager could see at a glance.

            Maybe there’s an opportunity to pilot some kind of automated email-triggered tracking for a smaller document with a friendly project manager – and if that’s successful, you can roll it out more widely.

    4. Sam Carter*

      I’ve used a cloud-based software called Wrike for similar purposes and it’s been great! There’s a learning curve and it will take some time to set it up and customize for your needs, but it works really well. Essentially it’s a project management program, so the PMs could just log on and check themselves without asking you.

    6. Xarcady*

      Thanks for all the software suggestions. I will check them out.

      The company does have project management software, but that seems to be restricted to project managers and a few other people. Not sure why.

    7. Oranges*

      Personally I’d start having them on the email chains so they have the knowledge at their fingertips. If possible.

      They want weeds level data and it sounds like you’re too busy to give them it in an easily digestible format? You might want to loop in your boss on both the problem and your proposed solution.

  55. Murphy*

    How do you answer people’s questions when you’ve already answered them without talking to them like they’re idiots?

    Like someone replies to an email asking you a question, and that question was answered in the email they’re replying to. Or I say “Per the attached schedule, your X is due on Y date”, and they don’t understand why they owe me X by Y date, or at all. (The last one just happened and I ended up replying and walking them through the entire schedule from the original incident to the time to submit X, but if they’d just checked it, I think it’s pretty self explanatory.)

    1. dr_silverware*

      I think it kind of has to be a mental shift on your end. Cause, you know that you’ve sometimes goofed and missed something in an attachment, or misread an email, or been so tired you just misunderstood something in a stupid way, and you’re not an idiot. I’m not being sarcastic; you had other circumstances at play that made you have a small messup that might have annoyed someone. But it’s the same for other people and the key to treating other people nicely is recognizing that they have that same stuff going on.

      1. Murphy*

        You’re probably right about some circumstances. I definitely know that we all have brain fart moments!

        And I don’t necessarily think they’re an idiot, I just don’t know how not to sound like I’m talking down to people. I find I’m trying to walk a line between not being curt/rude, and not overexplaining or being condescending. Like in today’s example, I was sending a friendly reminder that the second of two reports is due soon and attached the report schedule, and someone replied with “This is an old project. I don’t owe you any more reports.” I can’t just reply “Yes, you do. Check the previously referenced schedule.” I wanted it to be clear, so I went through the whole (brief) schedule to explain why yes, they do in fact owe me another report. It’s not hard to understand, but obviously there was confusion, so I’m not sure if there are strategies for explaining a really simple thing without being condescending.

        1. dr_silverware*

          You’re right–I think I meant more like, if you have that in mind you can say more smoothly, “No–it seems according to the schedule you have one more report. Here, the attachment may have gotten lost in transit, so I’ve reattached the schedule to this email.”

        2. Student*

          Is it possible that you two are actually talking about different things?

          I look at this exchange and I see this:

          You are looking to collect a report that has been previously scheduled and is due.

          The other person doesn’t have anything to report. The project ended prior to the last report. There is no new work that has occurred since the last report, and thus nothing new to report that you don’t already know. The original report schedule has become obsolete but was never formally amended.

          The obligation of the report is what you care about, and the content of the report is what the other person cares about. Since you’re talking about two different, but closely related things, you both talk past each other.

        3. baconeggandcheeseplease*

          I usually just recap the most up to date info that I have on the situation, and then ask them if they have differing info or if they can resend whatever document. In your example, if they said that it’s old and they don’t have anything else, I would just say I received XYZ for this project but not A. Apologies if you already sent and I missed it in a barrage of emails, can you resend?”

          I’m also a fan of attaching email strings to be like, this is the last communication I have on project B.

        4. Someone else*

          FWIW, I don’t think “Yes, you do. Check the previously referenced schedule.” is an inappropriate or too curt or condescending response to the exachange you cited there.

          That said, your initial question (how to repeat something you already said without either being too curt or sounding like you think the person is an idiot) is a question I ask myself approximately 20x a day. I don’t know if what I’m doing is right, but I usually err on the side of overexplaining because if they are an idiot, well then they hopefully got what they needed and if they aren’t and just had a brain fart, they usually acknowledge that, which is then helpful to me (in theory) because I know if I’m dealing with someone who generally gets it vs someone who needs their hand held…but the latter people are gonna be repeat offenders so they also make themselves obvious in other ways…

    2. Pollygrammer*

      “I’m sorry this was unclear in the email, it’s [answer that was obviously in the email].”

    4. Kramerica Industries*

      If it’s here and there, I let it pass and just answer the question. But I’ll admit…for repeat offenders, I use the good ol’ “As per the email below…” Which is corporate for “Did you even read the message”.

      1. Tara*

        Oooh, “as per email below” is rough but fair. I say that having been both the sender and receiver of it.

        Framing things as questions via email can also help soften things. Like, if they say “This is an old project. I don’t owe you any more reports,” you can respond with a “Hi. According to the attached, you do?” Maybe that can be taken the wrong way, but it makes me feel a little better about sending those emails.

        (Although sometimes I doubt myself on those kinds of things and wonder whether if I should be more assertive. What’s that one tweet? “One day I hope to have the confidence of managers who respond to emails with one word replies.”)

      2. hermit crab*

        I can’t find the post right now, but recently someone around here mentioned a meme or something that says “‘Per my last e-mail’ is office speak for ‘b!tch can you read.'” I literally LOLd when I read that post.

    5. Beatrice*

      I often switch to a quick phone call or face-to-face interaction. I am way better at switching into patient mode with more direct interaction. Its also easier for me to figure out where the actual confusion lies, and if someone is being deliberately obtuse, it’s harder for them to keep it up.

    6. Thlayli*

      Maybe check how your original email is structured. I recently got an email from IT with a title related to a request I had made from IT. It said something like “please complete the following info” followed by a list of items, which were all filled in except one.

      It looked to me like an automated email sending out a copy of the completed form, and I honestly didn’t even notice that the 4th or 5th item wasn’t filled in. I just thought the system had sent me a printout of the request submitted. I don’t even understand why they needed to ask me for extra info since I had filled in the initial form completely and that item was not on it.

      Two weeks later I get another email saying the same thing so I contacted IT to see what the delay was and they were like we can’t do this till you fill in the info. It was only at that point I realised there was an item missing 4 or 5 rows down in the list of of info.

      I didn’t even understand what the item they wanted was (I used to work in IT about 20 years ago, but I’m not remotely related to IT now). So I had to ask them what it even meant before I could answer.

      I sent back a polite email suggesting in future if they wanted some info to put a note at the top of the email saying there was an actual question to be answered, instead of a list with an item missing you would only notice if you scrolled down.

      Hopefully your emails are a bit clearer, but if you are being asked multiple questions you have already answered, it might be worth reviewing your original email to make sure it’s easy to read and find the info.

  56. Just Me*

    I never thought it would happen here, but the department birthday conundrum has reared its ugly head.

    When I arrived here several years ago (manager to a new company) I was surprised to see that this small department (about 5) celebrated birthdays by having a little potluck in the morning, getting a gift (usually a bag with several small items), cake and a card. It seemed a little much, but I rolled with it since I was new and everyone seemed fine with it. It didn’t cost much, maybe $5.00/pp and whatever dish we wanted to bring in. No one complained. Over time, though, it was obvious it was always the same three people organizing it (me and two others, usually taking turns). Still, no one seemed to mind, nor did anyone make any noises.

    Then a couple weeks ago one of my people basically went off (to me and the other person, separately) about how no one else steps up to take responsibility once in a while, often doesn’t get paid back by each person, it’s a hassle, etc. This person’s suggestion in the heat of the moment was, “Forget it! We’re not doing anything anymore.” (Apparently this was precipitated by another event that left both of them feeling unappreciated.)

    I then sent an email that generally said, “Here’s how it will work going forward. $X a month from each person who wants to participate. I’ll track and hold the money. The person who just had a birthday will be the one to go out and get a cake (or whatever treat) and a card. This is totally voluntary.” It works out to something like 20.00 for the year from each person. Everyone seems happy with it.

    Since everyone seems happy with it, I assume this is a fair plan? To be honest, I’ve never had to deal with this before since I never had a whole department to manage; it was one or two people, at most.

    1. Colorado*

      Honestly, I’d scrap the whole birthday celebration thing altogether. I’m sure for the person who complained it had been building up for a while. Maybe do cupcakes or something small for birthday months or since it’s only 5 people, maybe an annual or bi-annul appreciation cupcake gathering something or other.

    2. CatCat*

      This seems fine. I worked someplace that had a similar arrangement. We called it the birthday club. It was to buy treats and cards for birthdays. People who didn’t join would often still sign the cards and attend to extend the birthday wishes, but not partake of the food. Worked out well.

    3. Scott*

      This sounds exhausting. I never understood why people celebrate birthdays so hard. It kind of seems like just another Valentines day, Easter (more about the Easter bunny, not the actual religious celebration), Christmas, new years, weddings, anniversaries… they all seem like overly hyped “celebrations” exaggerated to extract money for gifts for stuff we’d never buy in the first place. I’m probably pretty alone in this feeling, but I’d be happy to celebrate individual accomplishments, and that doesn’t include getting older.

    4. Just Me*

      I’ll also add that they all were asked, before I sent the email, if they wanted to scrap birthdays completely, which is totally OK, and they all said no. So, this plan is what I figured was fair based on past posts and comments I’ve read here.

    5. cactus lady*

      At my old job we had “cake day” the last Wednesday of every month. It was the department’s way of celebrating everyone’s birthdays from that month without having to single out each one (or make a big deal out of birthdays for people who don’t like them – hence it was called “cake day”). It was fantastic! We got cake in the afternoon and mingled a bit but it wasn’t crazy out there or anything. I recommend a cake day.

  57. Introverted introvert*

    Maybe it’s just the places that I’ve worked for, but it seems like the work doesn’t matter anymore. You could do a stellar job and complete a project, but all that matters is who you sit next to at lunch or hang out with. Socializing is the only/most important thing and everything else is moot. Why is this?

    1. fposte*

      In my experience, that’s not completely true, but it’s also not completely untrue, in that making connections with your colleagues does matter in most fields. If you’re in a workplace where it is completely true, it might be time to look for another workplace. It could also be worthwhile to have a candid conversation with somebody who knows your work to ask about your future in the field given where your skills lie.

    2. Scott*

      Half of being a professional is networking, and that includes being friendly with people you would normally never spend time with.

      1. Student*

        I contend that there ought to be a difference between professional networking and, for lack of a better work, socializing. In my workplaces, it seems like socializing gets you much farther than either your work quality or your professional networking.

        Professional networking still has some connection to work. Exchanging work-related ideas and solutions. Learning about the work your colleagues do. Achievement awards and related celebrations. Voluntary presentations. Offering proactively to help the boss with a problem. Connecting different contacts who could benefit from each other’s expertise. Possibly, venting about shared work frustrations.

        Socializing is who you go golfing with. It’s who you invite to your private Christmas party. It’s who you went to college with. It’s who you chat about knitting with at lunch break. It has a lot to do with shared personalities and hobbies, shared socioeconomic class, shared non-work experiences. It’s who your friends are, rather than who your work-allies are.

        One of those has a business impact – favoring people who help you get your job done. The other is favoring your friends regardless of their business merits in any degree. Favoring and protecting your friends even when their work contributions are not particularly good.

        1. Scott*

          Very true, but I think of the most powerful people at the top of companies, and they all spend significant time “socializing”, or as I think we should see it as, is “building relationships”. Here’s the reason: suppose in a private company that candidate A and candidate B all else considered equal, it would be totally normal for the preferred candidate to get preferential treatment.

    3. miyeritari*

      No matter how good the work you do is – and it can be extraordinary – you need to publicize your connection to that work. Otherwise, you run the risk of people seeing that really good work and then just assigning it in their head to whoever they remember is associated with it, regardless of the name that comes on it.

      You don’t need to be best friends with people, but if no one knows you exist other than the fact you hand in projects, you’re at a significant disadvantage in that area.

  58. fposte*

    I happened onto a really interesting series in the Philadelphia Inquirer about first-generation college students and the culture shifts that entails. I’ll post the most recent link below; the article links to the others.

    2. Dee-Nice*

      I’m not a subscriber, so I was cut off after three articles, but I love that someone is doing a series like this. I particularly like that they talked to some adults a few years out from college, because in the article about winter break you can tell the kids (as kids do) were trying to wrap up something really messy by saying they were already finding their way and figuring it out, when you know they’re just getting past the first steps. The imposter syndrome never really ends, but you get better at navigating it. I’m glad colleges are starting to get wise to this; hopefully it will result in better support for these types of students.

    3. Triangle Pose*

      I was one of these Penn kids! First generation college grad and couldn’t ask my parents homework questions – English is not their first language and they’d never taken advanced classes in any subject. Loved this series. GO QUAKERS

  59. Amber Rose*

    Last Thursday I had Lasik. As mentioned before, it was a battle just to get the two days off for recovery.

    This week sucked. My eyes are bruised and fluctuating at different rates, the strain of staring at a computer all day is giving me the worst headaches, and I got another snippy email from my supervisor about sending her my plan for the week. I don’t have a plan for the week. Or next week. Until summer, I just do work as it comes in. Lacking future sight, I have no idea what that will be. Given my poor physical and emotional condition, I wrote and deleted half a dozen very snippy emails before I calmed down. Eventually I just sent her my checklist, which contains all my weekly, bi-weekly, monthly and annual tasks for 2018, and basically said, “this is the closest thing to a plan I have, hopefully that helps.” She said nothing in response, so I’m hoping that’s the end of this.

    Small piece of hilarity: we’re allowed to add a certain certification to some of our products now, which means the model numbers get an Ex at the end. All our model numbers end in S. Nobody noticed until it was much too late to change that we’re now selling SEx.

    1. Amey*

      That sounds like a rough week! Hope you have wonderful vision soon.

      Is it worth having an in person chat with your supervisor about the ‘weekly plan’ thing? Something along the lines of ‘This is how things operate for me at this point in the year, once we hit the summer, that changes to X. Is that in line with your expectations / is there a different way that you’d like me to be keeping you up to date?’

    3. LM*

      Hope you feel better soon and sorry to hear it has been rough. I would check in with your opthamologist if I were you as LASIK (as opposed to other laser vision surgeries) typically has a very quick recovery time (e.g. next-day!) and I think bruised eyes, and considerable eye strain are not typical side effects. Good luck!

  60. Jazzyisanonymous*

    After dealing with months of stress, I got at hurt work this week. :/
    I think they could tell I was stress before, but now I think they’re angry after I got hurt.
    I’m not sure how to even interview anywhere now, I’m medically barred from driving for a while.
    Anybody else got hurt and got through it?

    1. DrowninginTestosterone*

      It happens.
      Spend some time googling workplace safety and ergonomics to show you are proactive! Demonstrate that you know how to avoid any future injuries. Let your Boss know you take this seriously and took it upon yourself to learn how to prevent any further injuries. I wouldn’t assume they are mad at you for getting hurt, it could be it’s just inconveniencing them temporarily?
      As far as interviewing for other jobs you are putting the cart before the horse since it takes some time to get an in-person interview and most are phone screens, so you should be fine. Accidents happen and most bosses understand, feel better.

  61. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    One of my coworkers that I’m close to is leaving. This is the first time that’s happened. (Not a coworker leaving, but one I was relatively close to.) I’m more bummed than expected. We weren’t super close or anything, but we were friendly. Trade stories about different things (vacation, pets, etc.) Losing a friendly face sucks.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Sympathy, as I just lost one of my favourite people at work. It does suck. Can you write them a nice card saying how much you’ve enjoyed working with them?

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        Thank you!

        I think I’ll just say it face to face. He made sure I’d be in on his last day. We aren’t SUPER CLOSE so anything overly personal might be weird. Although, that being said, if I get a card I’m going to feel like a louse.

        It doubly sucks because he was one of the few who not only treated my position with respect.

    2. Marley*

      Yep. I’ve lost a few and been the person lost. I miss some of my old colleagues pretty dearly. Take them out to lunch if you can, or just have a wistful nostalgia fest for a moment with them. Some of the words said to me when I left my last job were truly touching.

  62. slacker problem*

    I need some outside assessment on an ongoing slacker colleague situation. I think I handled it so I don’t have to work with this colleague again, but I still feel pretty uneasy and I’d love some feedback about whether I handled it ok. (We’re both women, by the way.)

    I worked on two projects in a row with a colleague who left a lot of work to me. We’re both software developers. Most recently, say we were building a new teapot, and my colleague was in charge of adapting a handle designed by a third party to be used in our teapot. She hadn’t done any of the nitty-gritty work required to integrate the handle into the teapot for maybe three weeks into our 6 week project, and told me at about the three-week mark that she had just found out the handle had already been partially integrated by a past employee. I told this to my boss and he promised to manage her a bit more closely.

    She did finish the job, to visibly poor results; I redid her work in an afternoon, with her permission–I asked if I could tackle the remaining problems with her work since I just had a few ideas, and she wasn’t incredibly happy, but I was the one demoing this teapot.

    I went to my boss and told him how the project had gone and asked that I not work on another project with her like this. I let my frustration out a bit when I said I’d redone her weeks of work in an afternoon and improved it, which I actually really regret mentioning. My boss reiterated that she needed more managing.

    I’m mostly concerned about–was I rude? Should I have fixed her work? I know this is going to come up again in the future, how should I handle it?

    1. Chaordic One*

      If you were rude, you weren’t overly so and I wouldn’t worry about it. Your slacker co-worker (and now your boss) know that you aren’t really happy with her work and that she has been put on notice that she needs to up her game as far as her work performance is concerned. (Let’s hope she realizes that.) If you were able to fix her work, then fine. The client is more important than her feelings. But if you didn’t have time to do so, that would have also been fine. The bad work is (or should be) on her and to a lesser extent to your boss.

      (It isn’t clear to me if she is inexperienced and doesn’t know what to do, if she doesn’t manage her time well, or if she really is a lazy slacker.)

      It is really up to your boss to handle the situation since he has the power to put someone on probation or fire someone. He knows she isn’t working out very well so far, and it is up to him to manage her more closely and effectively. Be polite and professional when dealing with slacker co-worker, but keep your boss informed about her work.

  63. Help!*

    There is some tension bubbling between two of my team members where person 1 feels like person 2 is stealing their thunder on projects and person 2 feels like person 1 has complained unfairly about them in the past. It is at the point where person 1 has refused to attempt to address the issue directly with person 2 as the don’t feel they can trust them.

    I’d love to crowdsource some ideas about how to address this. Right now I’m thinking to get person 2’s viewpoint and follow up by mediating a discussion between the two of them. I haven’t done anything like this before so if anyone has advice, I’d love to hear it.

    1. fposte*

      I’m generally wary of mediation between co-workers, because I think too often it’s a substitute for managing; is there a reason why you think it would be preferable to have a mediation, and are you trained in it?

      Do you know what person 1 is actually achieving as opposed to person 2? Is person 1 complaining regularly? Depending on what actually happens, I may 1) step up my observation of productivity to make sure I’m accurate about who’s doing what, 2) talk to person 1 about my understanding of what they do (either in the “it doesn’t matter what person 2 says because I know you did x, y, and z” way or in the “it does look like your projects are relying on other colleagues more than I’d expect” way, and 3) tell person 2 that hearing complaints is part of my job and that it’s appropriate for concerns to be brought to me whether it’s by her or her co-worker, so I don’t want that discouraged.

  64. Roscoe*

    Random question for the group. In an interview, do you think its fair game to bring up specific issues that are raised on Glassdoor? So for example saying “I read your Glassdoor reviews, and it seems X,Y, and Z are common issues people have raised. Can you elaborate on those”

    1. rosiebyanyothername*

      There was an article in the New Yorker this week about Glassdoor that mentioned HR employees are getting this question more. I’m curious to see what people think!

    2. dr_silverware*

      I probably wouldn’t. It doesn’t really feel kosher. Also you’re more likely to get a pat answer than if you felt it out without placing the issue on the table–at an old company, one of the big issues on glassdoor was about their turnover rate; if you mentioned it at all, they would pop out some misleading statistics about how it’s not actually a problem when in fact it was problem once I ended up working there.

      1. Roscoe*

        Out of curiosity, why doesn’t it feel kosher? Like I feel like if they can ask you about anything, why can’t you ask them. Glassdoor is a very common thing. I’m not saying I’d bring up every little complaint. But if an issue is raised by multiple people, I don’t see why it should be “bad”

        1. dr_silverware*

          I don’t really know. I guess it just feels kind of like it’s escalating things if it’s been a friendly interview so far. I have asked about that kind of glassdoory issue before and it felt socially uncomfortable without the payoff of a helpful answer.

        2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

          I think it would depend a lot on what the specific issue is, and if it’s something that’s known outside of Glassdoor.

          For example, at pretty much any company you look at, people will gripe about the pay rates. That’s not necessarily an accurate representation that the company doesn’t pay market rates — more that people don’t like what the market rate is. It would look kind of weird, IMO, to bring that up, like you’re placing too much weight on what has been said by effectively anonymous people.

          On the other hand, if you have a ton of comments about, say, a particular building issue, that might be something you can probe more deeply. Specificity and objectivity of issues are pretty major.

        3. Triangle Pose*

          They can’t ask you “anything” and they shouldn’t be asking you anything. Similarly, you can find out the same information without indicating that you read about from an anonymous employee posting a review on an employer ratings website.

    3. Triangle Pose*

      Why would you comeo ut and say Glassdoor? Just ask about the issue. If they are “common issues” the interviewer is just going to answer your question and you get an answer. How does it help you at all to say it’s from Glassdoor?

        1. Triangle Pose*

          How is it a “common issue” if it’s only something you would know from internal sources? If it’s something super specific to this company and only an internal source would know that it exists, it would be out of place to ask anyway and if it’s something that can exist at a lot of companies, then just say “some workplaces have X issue, have you found this to be the place here?” There really no great reason you should be saying “I heard X on Glassdoor” it isn’t a good look.

    4. Regular Lurker*

      My company has a franchise arm and, often, disgruntled employees of a franchisee will post comments on Glassdoor under my company instead. Prior to my interview, my now boss requested that I review the Glassdoor comments and bring concerns to my interview. I appreciated her honesty. I also asked about the feedback when I met with her boss for my second interview and he also appreciated my candor.

    5. nep*

      If there are a couple issues that are quite important to you in your decision, I’d just find a way to frame the question(s) without mentioning Glassdoor.

  65. Pumping at work in Ontario?*

    I know there’s a lot of Canadians here – does anyone have any experience with not taking the full 12-month mat leave? I’m going to be having my first baby in a few months, and my husband and I planned on splitting it more-or-less 50/50 -I’d take the first 6 months, and he’d take the second six months. When I talked to HR, they were supportive, but a little bit surprised. Apparently, all previous mat leaves have been for the full twelve months. When I brought up pumping at work, they said they’d never had that question before! They’re committed to finding something that works (the initial suggestion was the ladies locker room, which is pretty wide open -no individual cubicles), but I was wondering what’s actually required. I’ve seen Allison answer questions for the States that they have to have a non-washroom space with a locking door, but I don’t see a requirement for that on the Ontario MOL site. It says they have to provide pumping breaks, but nothing about space.

    1. Agnodike*

      Most of my colleagues took six months of leave – I was a bit of an oddity for taking the whole year! I don’t know if it’s a requirement to provide a pumping room, but every workplace I’ve ever had has done so. The most common solution was to provide an empty office or conference room with a lock. Lots of Canadians can’t afford 12 months at half their pay (lots of employers don’t top up) so you’re definitely not alone! Breastfeeding past a year is also pretty common, so it sounds to me like this is more just a case of a specific experience/knowledge gap on the part of your HR than anything else.

  66. anon24*

    TL/DR: Any tips on going back to work full time after a few months off (and loving unemployed life)?
    I’m going back to work soon. I took off a few months to get certified to switch careers. I’m thrilled to finally have a chance to work in the area I’ve always wanted to work, but here’s the thing. I don’t want to go back to work. While I was off I had part time classes, so even though I had lots of at home work, it wasn’t a full time away from home commitment. I loved being at home, studying at my dinner table while my cats slept at my feet. When I worked full time I was constantly in a state of mild panic, feeling like I never could keep up with things at home and never feeling mentally rested, and I have felt so much better, mentally and physically, since I quit my job. I’m stressing out just thinking about the fact that I’ll be back to the full time grind in a few weeks. Has anyone ever felt like this, and how did you handle it? Any tips or advice you can give me is much appreciated. I feel like I’m being so childish and immature, and logically I’m excited to be getting a paycheck again, but emotionally I just want to stay home.

    1. Colette*

      The first time I was unemployed, I was afraid that I’d never be able to work again since I’d have to give up my afternoon naps. It wasn’t a problem after the first week – once I started working, I was learning a bunch of new stuff and was too busy to want a nap.

      It sounds like your problem is a little different. Can you think about ways to make yourself feel more in control when you’re out of the house all day?

    2. Tara*

      When I’m worried about a big change like that, I tell myself “you can do anything for three months.” By three months, you’re over the worst of the “new job is hard and I don’t know how to do anything” feelings, you’ve adjusted your life habits and schedule, and you can make a better decision about whether or not this was actually a good idea. Has worked well for me.

      This is just my personal take, I’m sure there are other stories where people know right away it’s not going to work. (Most memorably, a friend of the family who was ALL ABOUT going back to work after having a baby. Dropped the kid off at daycare the first time, drove to the end of the block, broke down, went back and got the kid, called husband and said “sorry, not happening.” She eventually ended up doing more flexible property management stuff, but we laugh now about her “NAH SON, THIS AIN’T GONNA WORK” reaction.

    3. Arjay*

      I loved being unemployed (with a generous severance package). I went to the gym and the pool every day. I had time to socialize and do chores and truly relax without trying to squeeze all that into a too-short weekend.
      But the novelty of the new job kept my energy up and I got back into the full-time routine pretty easily. And now I’m used to full-time drudgery again. :)

    4. Jessi*

      Sometimes when I’m really worried about a new something (most recently ice skating lessons and a new language class) I have found myself trying to talk myself out of doing it. Even though I really want to learn to skate and to learn this language.

      I have told myself that I will force myself to go twice and if I hate it I will stop going. Of course after the first go at each I was really excited to continue…. Maybe you could do the same? Tell yourself you will give it a couple of weeks and if you hate it you will look into part time jobs instead

  67. Professor Ronny*

    Why do most of the names here show up in black but a few, like “many bells down” show up in blue?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      The commenting form gives you an option to list your own website. If you put something in that field, your name will link to it — which will then be blue, because all links here are blue.

      1. Yoyo*

        I would just like to take a moment to randomly note that I love that poem. There’s a recording with cummings reading it out, have you ever heard it? It’s lovely.

        1. many bells down*

          I have not! My husband used to recite it to me while we were dating. Turns out he got it from a book titled something like “most romantic poems for seducing women” :DDD

          1. Yoyo*

            Oh you know, I never thought of that poem as romantic at all— it always seemed a bit melancholy, about human nature and the inevitable passage of time. Hmmm.

            Anyway I love the recording! I’d link it, but I think that gets comments kicked to moderation. If you google for ‘anyone lived in a pretty how town’ and click on the link from The Poetry Foundation you’ll find it there. Tell me what you think (if you feel like it). cummings had an accent I’ve never heard before (maybe it’s not around anymore?), and he speaks with an interesting… beat/rhythm.

  68. Claudia*

    LOL I clicked on the link about the water cooler and the first comment under that post was about nominating that boss (who made employees pay for a water cooler they don’t use) as worst boss of the year. Given the calibrr of bad bosses over the last two years that wouldn’t even make a top 10 I suspect.

    Ah 2013, simpler times.

  69. Tim*

    I’m a supervisor, and there are two people above me at my location, Jane and Melissa. Jane reports to Melissa; I report to both (we’re in the middle of a merger and running some things separately and not others). Jane hates Melissa and wants her out – the whole team knows this, because Jane has been urging them to go over Melissa’s head with complaints. I agree that Melissa is generally ineffective/absent, but plenty of the issues are actually Jane’s fault. The merger is making things more difficult because things are constantly in flux, and Jane and Melissa come from two different companies and don’t have adequate training on the other side, but this would be way less problematic if Jane would actually go talk to Melissa about anything. Higher-ups know there are problems; Melissa’s boss’s boss is starting to come out here regularly because Melissa’s boss hasn’t managed to resolve anything.

    Anyways…tips on dealing with this? Frankly I want nothing to do with it – I’m planning to stick this out another 7 months because it’s great for experience and my resume, then transfer out. But the team is getting screwed on a lot of stuff right now (largely scheduling-related, which is mostly handled by Jane) and people come to me with it even though there’s not much I can do. Any advice?

    1. CM*

      I would stay out of the Jane/Melissa dynamics and focus on the issues. If it’s scheduling-related, can you come up with a solution that would not require them to cooperate, for instance, you can handle the schedule and check in with both of them?

  70. Perpetuum Mobile*

    Yesterday I had a first phone interview for a Project Manager position (contract) at a large petrochemical company. It was with the hiring manager. The preliminary screening had been done by a recruiting agency. My question is if it’s appropriate to send the hiring manager a brief thank you email? Normally after a conventional face-to-face interview I would within 24 hours, but here it was 1. Only 20 minutes on the phone for a basic fit for the job, 2. I was submitted for the role by the recruiting agency, which is new to me and I am not sure if it’s ok to contact her directly, and 3. No one explicitly provided me with her email, I only have it because she was copied on the original meeting invitation. Don’t want to commit any blunders and come across as pushy. Thanks!

    PS. Alison, I am sorry that I put my question out here as I also emailed you this morning, and I know you prefer to avoid duplicated questions in case you put them in your “to-answer” queue. It’s just that I am running out of time for this thank you note (IF it is an appropriate thing to do under the circumstances), and I really want to use any resource that may help me get this job.

  71. super anon*

    Half a year ago my department created a new position to oversee the entire department. The position is primarily to do admin and operations tasks to be there to approve staff admin requests that our off-site Director didn’t have time to do. Every role in our department reports to this position. Because our previous bosses were off-site I don’t know how much of what is happening with our new manager is typical workplace stuff, and how much is micromanagey overreach and I am hoping to get some clarification from the great readers here!

    Some examples of procedures that have changed since new manager has started:

    – We have to send emails to the entire department detailing where we are if we will not be in our office during the day. If we aren’t in our office for whatever reason and they see, we have to text or email new boss to let them know where we are. New boss also has a habit of doing laps around the building to check on where people are.

    – Time is no longer flexible, we are expected to make up any hours we will be away or put in for unpaid leave, even if we are salary and have lieu time. Working from home is no longer allowed. This becomes difficult for positions that have a lot of travel and off-site meetings and previously had flexible time to account for this.

    – Everything we do has to go through new boss to get approval before it can be moved on. Tasks that we used to be able to do independently (ex: submitting intern job postings for internal funding – postings that have been submitted and approved before with no changes) now have to go through new boss before we can work on them. Any ordering that has to be done, including lunches for events, supplies, etc have to be sent to new boss for approval, even if new boss assigned the task to you. I assume that managers and directors would be able to make decisions independently, but no one else seems overly bothered by this change.

    -When we have issues with our staff new boss will talk to the staff rather than letting their direct managers deal with it. Even if new boss comes to us and asks us to address the issue, they will still go behind our backs to talk to our staff themselves. This makes it very hard to have working relationships with our staff.

    I’m finding this new level of supervision really frustrating to work with, especially as my job description outlines my position as having a wide range of latitude and making decisions independently. If you have questions about the new procedures or things you’ve been assigned new boss they get visibly annoyed and irritated with you, the vibe is very much “because I said so, so stop talking and just do it”.

    I’m looking for another job because I find the environment stifling, but I’m worried that this kind of manager overreach is par for the course in office jobs and wherever I go next will be the same type of thing.

    1. J.B.*

      I think it depends a lot on what your field and expertise is. If you have an admin job then pushing back against such a manager would be hard in normal organizational setups. However, if you have a professional position then it would seem very very weird for someone like this to get authority that you couldn’t push back on.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Just the first one made me think micromanager. Doing laps around the building to see if people are in their seats? Ridiculous. New boss is wasting a lot of their time with this.

      FWIW, I’ve worked in offices for nearly twenty years and have encountered very little micromanaging. But in interviews, you can screen for that by asking about communication expectations, what the culture is like, etc.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Well, one would be a non-answer. If they can’t/don’t answer the question or seem surprised by it, I figure they’re not very good at outlining expectations and I’m either likely to get very little information when I need it, or they want a mind-reader and will pick at everything I do. Proceed with caution. Or something like, “I like to keep very close tabs on my projects/what my people do.”

          Mostly I just want to see how well they can communicate with me right then and there. Also, I’ve been told about regular meetings, so that’s also good to know. Are they daily? Weekly? Monthly? Do people do presentations or are they informal? Do they have IM, or are they phone people? It opens up discussion and I can fish further.

          I had one person tell me the boss wrote all their website copy (which sucked really bad) and wouldn’t even let anyone in marketing edit it. To me, that read as controlling. I didn’t get the job, but that was kind of a nope anyway.

    3. Natalie*

      Regarding your first example, just because I’m curious: does that include going to the bathroom?

  72. Snark*

    Looks like the incredibly snipey comment I was responding to got erased, which is good, so please disregard.

  73. Tired*

    Need to vent: I had a final-round interview exercise this week and by now I’m pretty sure I haven’t gotten the job (supposed to have heard back earlier, saw the job reposted on a pay-to-post site yesterday). I know it could just be taking longer than expected, but I’m losing hope. I’m feeling extra self-loathing because they really liked me up until this exercise, when I got so anxious I procrastinated and then pushed myself to finish “on time” even though they offered to push back the deadline. I wasn’t totally happy with what I presented and knowing that I was so close and screwed it all up makes it even worse.

    I have nothing else in the pipeline, so not getting this means I’m starting from scratch again and it’ll be at least another month of stress and rejection. I’m so tired of all this. I feel unqualified for pretty much everything. I’m having trouble forcing myself to apply to jobs and feeling like what’s the point, I’ll just be rejected anyway.

    1. Linda Evangelista*

      I SUPER know this feeling all too well. Its making it so hard for me to pick jobs to apply to, because everything looks like a bad fit, for I wouldn’t be good at it, or it would be awful and boring, etc.

      Part of it is that my current workplace is making me hate my whole industry. I’m just burnt out.

      Anyway, I don’t have any great advice for this except just keep plugging away. Something will work out eventually! (There’s also the option of running away to become a sea witch.)

    2. nep*

      Agree with Linda Evangelista — as difficult as it is, especially after a ‘no’, the only thing to do is keep plugging away.
      I can relate completely. I saw a couple of job announcements this week that for a second got me excited because my skills seem well suited to the positions. Then instantly the mind goes to: What’s the use? I’ll just be passed over again. But of course I can’t follow those thoughts.
      Getting on to another application process might help ease the dejection a bit.
      You can do it. You will land a job. Please keep us posted.

  74. Linda Evangelista*

    I work in a weirdly toxic work environment where I love my colleagues but management is terrible. Not terrible people, just poor management.

    I’ve been job hunting for a good while now and nothing seems to be sticking. I’ve significantly overhauled my resume and followed the advice on AAM, but I’m low key desperate to get out of here. Has anyone been in a similar situation? And how did you continue to look for “good fit” jobs and stick to an upward career trajectory despite the desperation to leave your current position?

    For context, this is my first salaried position and I’ve been here for almost two years. I was ready to go after one.

    1. Kramerica Industries*

      Think about what else you’d be willing to tolerate in order to get out of your current situation. Boring work? Long hours? I was in a pretty toxic environment previously too, and really, it can only go up from there.

      My go-to question in intereview now is “What is your favourite part about your job?” If the interviewer says “My coworkers”, that’s a red flag that there are problems elsewhere.

    2. Argh!*

      I’m currently in that situation, but further along in my career. I’m not looking to move up, just out.

      As they say, “a bird in the hand…” I don’t like my boss or the top people above & around the boss, or the toxic micromanaging, or the unethical practices, but I do like my paycheck. I have only once been so desperate to leave that I asked to be let go. I was qualified for severance there, so that tied me over. It will have to get much, much worse here for me to give up the paycheck without having at least unemployment to rely on.

  75. AnnaleighUK*

    Trying to help my boo do his tax return is totally rage-inducing. Next year we’re getting an accountant, this is hell and it’s due January 31st. Still not sure why he can’t do it himself but he keeps mumbling about how much better at numbers I am than he is.

    Any other UK self employed peeps having fun with these right now? These wretched things are the main reason I am glad I’m not self employed.

    1. Lumen*

      Ah, the age old “but you’re better at this than I am”. Good comeback: “Yes. Because I practiced.” If he’s going to be self-employed, he needs to learn how to do this.

      However, you are not the only UK-based person I’ve heard talking about this. It sounds awful. I think you both deserve some sort of treat when this is over.

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        He is a bit rubbish at numbers and this is only the second one he’s done so I’ll cut him some slack (for now). These forms are appalling, I find them entirely illogical. I think when we’re done we’re going to have to have a movie night… with my choice of movie. Bwaha. Disney films, go.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Ex-freelancer. I regretted paying an accountant for mine once I started doing it. It’s not the tax return that’s hard – it’s getting your totals for turnover, expenses, etc.

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        Totals suck, the form sucks as well as the website crashing every ten minutes. R is smart enough to keep records of everything but I am making him a bloody spreadsheet for next year. A box file with receipts tossed in it does not make for a happy Ani and if he wants my help again next time he needs to organise his crap better.

        1. Thlayli*

          I think you need to get him to help you. Organising receipts by date is certainly something he can do. Writing down all the receipt totals is something he can do. If he’s not capable of adding them up to get a total, then I guess you would need to do that bit.
          Helping him doesn’t have to mean “doing every single bit including sorting through all the receipts.” Get him to do every bit he’s capable of and make him sit with you while you do the rest so he has at least a chance of learning how

    3. Any Mouse Wife*

      If you do it for him now, you are likely to get stuck doing it for him as long as this relationship lasts. How is he with other matters of finance that matter to you in a relationship? How do you feel about the underlying discrepancy in your capabilities and values here?

      Do you believe that he is actually incapable of this, or just found a convenient and free way to outsource some grunt work to you? It kind of sounds like you feel it’s the latter instead of the former. Do you feel appreciated for this, or suckered into it? Do you want a relationship with someone who suckers you into doing unpleasant things for them? Do you sucker him into doing unpleasant things that you’re perfectly capable of doing yourself?

      You still have plenty of time to just take it to an accountant.

      I ask because I’ve been with a guy for many years who will happily sucker me into things he is capable of doing but finds unpleasant, and I’m getting sick enough of it that I’m contemplating divorce. I wish I’d picked up on the difference between being suckered into doing something he’s capable of but dislikes, and doing something nice to help him out and being respected for it, much earlier.

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        I have no problem doing it for now because it’s a New Thing for him and hey, I’m a nice person who is numerically savvy. He’s a chef who isn’t great with numbers. I’m not letting him get away with this though, the next one he is doing for himself but I will baby him through it until he understands it. I’ve cracked the back of it this evening (wine helped) so feeling a tad more positive. He’s currently doing some basic sums with the Box Of Receipts.

        The biggest problem I’m having is that the format of it is ridiculous (in my view) and the website is so unstable that it’s driving me nuts.

        And he knows better than to sucker me into things. You don’t try and coerce a redheaded Scottish woman into doing something just because you don’t want to do it. He learned that over a decade ago.

  76. Red Reader*

    Why does my team keep getting landed with the people who can’t hack it in their current job. :-P

      1. Red Reader*

        Practically speaking, the real answer is that my team’s work is less complicated than other teams, so the idea is that hopefully they’ll do better with more basic work. And in the past when that has not proved to be the case, they have fired people for not being able to hack it on my team, so there’s that at least. But as the one who gets to do the training on everyone else’s castoffs, it’s mildly annoying.

  77. J.B.*

    I got into grad school! Excited about the program. I’m now trying to work out with my bosses whether and how long I can go part time. In a way I want to go to school only for a while (and can manage it). Sane grown up me knows it would be better to have current salary and benefits as long as possible, but as a long term investment this is worth it.

  78. Colorado*

    I had to euthanize my 16 year old cat on Wednesday evening. I felt like total shit on Thursday (yesterday) mentally and physically so I called in sick. My boss knew about my kitty. We have unlimited sick time but I can’t help feeling guilty about it. I’m a 45 year old professional woman and I call in sick over my cat’s death. Is this odd?

    1. Mediamaven*

      Hopefully they can get over it. I actually lost my pet bird many years ago and my boss was an animal lover. She told me to go home, got me a card and couldn’t have been any nicer about it. Someone else complained that I got to go home for a stupid bird and that girl was FIRED. Anyway, I hope if that happens to one of my employees that I can be sympathetic and give them time. I’m so sorry about your best friend. I have three cats now and would be devastated to go through that.

      1. KR*

        JUSTICE for your bird when that woman was fired. Loving your boss right now.
        My previous boss, who was dog obsessed, was very understanding about last minute vet visits and needing to stay home because of a senior pup with many skin and old age issues. My new boss lets me take my dog to work when I need to and flex my time for vet appointments or sick senior babies. It’s not odd at all to be so sad and I’m so very sorry for your loss, Colorado and Mediamaven. I have an almost 12 year old dog and an 11 year old cat, and they are like my kids. Whenever doggo dies (since he will probably go first) I am anticipating needing a lot of time off to deal.

    2. Rachel*

      Most of the time I find the opinions here reasonably balanced, but on this topic I’d say the view is definitely skewed because of how many cat lovers there are here. So you already know the answer to this question.

    3. Lumen*

      Hello. I am not a cat lover (or cat hater). So hopefully this isn’t a biased answer.

      I think it’s appropriate to use sick leave for mental health, though I know some people and some organizations disagree in practice if not on paper. I think you wisely realized that you could not function appropriately at work. You said you felt terrible mentally AND physically (because mental health and physical health are intertwined). You called in sick… because you were sick that day. Think of it like that.

      If you had taken off several days or a week, then I think it might be taking it a bit far. But one day to let yourself recover from a really sad and difficult loss? Don’t beat yourself up over this.

      1. HigherEdAdmin Extraordinare*

        I agree with this comment whole-heartedly. I am an animal lover, but I think dealing with grief is a part of mental health. If you had gone in the office, would you have been productive? Would you have been comfortable? Would you have had enough time to deal with your feelings so that you could be productive in the coming days?

        That last one is especially important. If you don’t deal with your feelings, they won’t just go away. By taking the day off to grieve and hopefully rest, you are doing what you need to do to begin to be able to return to your normal schedule. Some folks may scoff because it is a cat that was lost, but it isn’t the type of loss that is important: it is how it impacts the individual experiencing the loss. So I don’t think you need to feel guilty. It sounds to me like you did the right thing for yourself and ultimately the right thing for being able to contribute at work.

    5. CatCat*

      I’m so sorry about your kitty. I wouldn’t find it odd if someone needed a day after the death of a beloved animal companion.

    6. Kate*

      Not odd at all. Wednesday actually marked a year since I lost my 16 year old dog. I was also feeling guilty about taking the following day off since it meant others had to cover some meetings for me, but I knew I wouldn’t be able to keep it together. Everyone I worked with was 100% kind and understanding. Even non-pet people seem to understand the emotional bond people have to their pets (unless they are real jerks like Mediamaven’s ex-coworker). So sorry about the loss of your cat.

      1. Natalie*

        Years ago when I was a temp (so no time off) my brother and I had to have our childhood dog put down. My boss told me to leave early and paid me anyway. It’s definitely understood by a lot of people.

    8. Ramona Flowers*

      I’m so sorry for your loss.

      To me the question has exactly zero to do with anyone else’s opinion on the validity of your grief. Rather, it’s about whether you were able to work or not. And you weren’t able to, you weren’t okay. Case closed!

    10. Elizabeth West*

      *HUG*
      Don’t feel badly about it. It’s a big deal to lose a companion even if it’s an animal and not a human. I lost Pig on a Thursday, and I called in that Friday since I was in the ER until nearly 1 a.m. (the people ER, not the animal one). I was out Monday too, but that was because I was in the hospital all damn weekend.

      But even if I hadn’t, I would have skipped Friday anyway. I don’t think I could have done any work. The only thing I managed that day was gather up her things and take them to the vet’s office for donation.

      It sounds like your boss is understanding and it’s your PTO; you can use it for whatever you need to.

    12. Thursday Next*

      I’m sorry for your loss. We had to put our 15-year-old cat down 11 months ago, and I still miss him. (My daughter, who has developmental challenges, doesn’t understand death but has a great memory and wanted to buy cat food for him last week. A fresh wave of sadness struck…)

      I think a sick day is fine. You were probably too upset to be functioning at normal work capacity, right? That’s one of the things sick days are for.

  79. DC*

    So after a few weeks of feeling pretty good about things, I made some moves.

    1. Talked to 2 people higher up about my issues with the co-worker who couldn’t stop complaining/taking her stress out on us. Feeling slightly better about it, and I’ve also been disengaging more, which helps.
    2. Decided it was time to ask for a raise. It’s been two years with phenomenal reviews with nothing, so I put together all my material and went for it.

    And I got shot down so fast I got whiplash. Not even in a “eh, not right now” way, but in a flat out, hell no it’s never happening, you’re at the absolute highest that you could possibly be paid, and BTW you make more than others in your position at another school (nevermind market rate), and if you want to stay here you have to accept that there’s nowhere for you to go up and you’ll never get a raise.

    Nevermind she just got a huge raise. So I’m very frustrated, but at least I tried and I have answered that “What if,” and can leave guilt free when I get something better.

    1. The Tin Man*

      Yep, their categorically saying “Not now, not ever” makes it 100% clear that in order to get a raise, you need to leave.

      1. DC*

        Yeah. I’m now actually looking forward to the exit interview, when the dean asks (again) what she can do to keep me here, and I can just laugh and say that it was made clear I wasn’t wanted here.

  80. Shellesbelles*

    I didn’t get a chance last week, but I really want to thank everyone who responded to me with advice. A special thank you to @Lalla for their amazingly detailed and helpful response. It was so appreciated and I’ve really taken it to heart. I even printed it out and stuck it into my planner for days that I’m struggling. The amount of support and compassion I have found here is really overwhelming, so thanks as well to Alison for facilitating such a great group of people.

  81. rosiebyanyothername*

    What do AAM readers make of Glassdoor? My company’s reviews are mostly negative and recently a new employee privately asked me if “the stuff in the Glassdoor reviews is legit.” I feel like sites like that can be skewed as people are more likely to write about a negative experience than a positive one, and I have a suspicion at least a few of the negative reviews of my company were written by employees who were fired. I mean, yes, many of the issues mentioned in the reviews are “legit,” but I’m not sure if an anonymous review website is the best way to address them. What’s your take?

    1. Amber Rose*

      I mean, it shouldn’t make your decisions for you, but it’s good to know the perspective of people who were frustrated with the company and use that to ask some pointed interview questions.

    2. Stormy*

      So much depends on your manager. A company can be a nightmare to work for in one department, and amazing in another. I’ve seen it many times. I think as long as the reviewer is willing to be honest about which position she held, though I can see that being difficult in small departments, the feedback has at least some value.

    3. The IT Manager*

      I have no experience with Glassdoor, but I would remind people that someone is much more likely to leave an angry negative review than a neutral or positive one on the internet. Fiery anger inspires people to post where meh-ness or happiness does not.

    5. Kramerica Industries*

      If I see a pattern, would be enough to ask myself if I could deal with the negative parts, assuming that the rest is positive.

    6. Lumen*

      When I read a positive Glassdoor review, I check to see if it is by a current employee. If so, my guess is that the company requests that employees leave reviews (and people naturally feel more inclined/more pressured to leave positive remarks). I take it more to heart if a positive review is by a former employee.

      When I read a positive Glassdoor review… I check to see if it is by a current employee. If not, they are probably angry, whether they were fired or left of their own accord. I take it more to heart if a negative review is left by a current employee.

      I would also caution other AAM readers not to put too much weight on responses to reviews by the company. One place I left finally hired an HR person after I left, and they have left these personal, heartfelt responses to a bunch of reviews… which were left by people they never met.

    7. Elizabeth H.*

      Are you asking this bc you just read the New Yorker article about Glassdoor? If you hadn’t, it was an interesting read!

      2. rosiebyanyothername*

        Yeah, that was what prompted it! There’s also been some mild Glassdoor drama floating around my office as people speculate over who wrote which review.

    8. Delphine*

      On the one hand, people are more likely to write about a negative experience. On the other hand, my old company had employees write positive Glassdoor reviews, and in that case I really should have paid attention to the pattern I saw in the negative reviews from the people who had left.

      1. MechanicalPencil*

        Exactly this. I know of a company who paid employees in gift cards to write positive reviews on Glassdoor and any other possible niche review site. Negative reviews were sprinkled in, but you had to do some digging.

    9. Elizabeth West*

      I look at them the same way I do reviews on Amazon. I read between the lines too–if it says something like “I love working here! It’s so great! Lovely coworkers, and though the pay is a little low (read: below market), it’s worth it. We log lots of hours (read: we never go home) but everybody is so nice and fun and I’m so happy!” I figure it was written by that one employee–you know the one, haha. Then you have the ones that sound like Squidward wrote them– “Run far far away, this place is a nightmare; management is stodgy and old-fashioned, etc.” That might be someone who is just unhappy with the place in general or needs a change.

      Middle-of-the-road ones tend to be more honest. If more than half the reviews have roughly the same thing listed as a con, then I’m leery.

      That assistant job I interviewed for had reviews like that. Most of them were “It’s okay,” but quite a few were “It’s okay, pay isn’t great, if you don’t go to management’s church you’ll never be ‘in’, they’re old school, etc.” It wasn’t enough to put me off, but it told me I should approach with caution.

    10. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

      I always try to check them, but I also take them with a grain a salt.

      Mainly I look for patterns and details/specifics. If more than half of the reviews say something similar (either positive or negative) I give it some weight – it’s not gospel, but I definitely keep it in mind.

      Otherwise I just look for specifics/details in both positive or negative review. “The company is great. I love working here” does not mean anything to me and I completely dismiss it. However if the review says “I love working here. The green intiatives help me feel like I’m making a difference in the environment just by working here and the company waffle throwing events make me feel like a valued member of the company.” – that I trust. Even if there’s like five other reviews just saying “this place is awful. Management doesn’t know anything”.

  82. SMEs*

    Subject matter experts: what did you do outside your regular job to get to where you are?

    I’m a decade into my field, just finished my master’s degree, and settled in to the point that I now have time to put energy into “supplemental” skills. I’m not sure how to begin, and I’m skeptical of suggestions I’ve received in real life. (Write articles on Linkedin! No, don’t, nobody actually cares about those!)

    Conferences? White papers? Even a short narrative snippet of your journey might be helpful. TIA.

    1. J.B.*

      Conferences. If you can give a talk and attend the rest of the conference, you keep your own knowledge up and make great contacts in the wider community.

    2. Lynca*

      I ended up being a SME because in my office is because I devoted time for sorting out our technical specs, re-writing them, implimenting them, etc. Which is par for my field.

      Outside my regular job: conferences. I haven’t done a white paper (probably never will).

  83. Fabulous*

    Most of my team works in different offices than I do. In February, everyone will be coming to my office. I’ve met all of them in person at one point or another except one – the woman I’ve been working with most the last few months as she’s trained me for a new task. I’m excited to finally meet her in person in a few short weeks!

    1. hermit crab*

      It’s so weird (and fun!) to finally meet people you work with/talk to all the time. A few managers from other locations were in my office this week, and I ran into one of them, L., in the bathroom. She said, “you look like hermit crab’s picture!” and I said “you look like L.’s picture!” because before this, we had only seen each other’s photos that show up in Outlook. I hope you have a good time meeting your coworker face to face!

    2. Epsilon Delta*

      The best one for me went like this:
      Visiting coworker: “Are you an intern?”
      Me: “No I’ve been here 3 years and I’m the chocolate teapots lead on your project!”

  84. BRR*

    So late last year I asked for a raise and promotion. I got a yes to the raise but haven’t really heard anything about the promotion. My manager wanted to work on the money part first because she doesn’t feel it’s that important what title you have. The thing is that the promotion and title mean a lot to me. I feel very unappreciated and under recognized at work. My responsibilities are much greater than what I was hired for and I want a promotion to reflect my contributions and conveys my role to others.

    I currently hold the title of officer which is uncommon but not unheard of in my field. I asked for the title of associate director which is what my title would be at similar organizations (or even director but that would never happen here). At my organization the next step up is senior officer which basically doesn’t exist as a title in my field. The handful of senior officers I found are more like senior analysts which is a step down.

    If my manager comes back with a senior officer title (which would likely be due to HR), can I push back at all and what could I say? Or if I shouldn’t push back, what do I say then because I would be incredibly unhappy about it. I’ve previously explained the usual title structure in my field to her. Or am I too fixated on title? Thanks for your answers!

    1. fposte*

      It’s sort of like the work equivalent of love languages, isn’t it? Different things carry different weights for different people. That being said, it’s worth thinking about whether the real issue is being unappreciated at work and whether a different title will help if the day-to-day problems still continue.

      However, I think you can still ask for what you want. If the manager comes back with senior officer, you could say “A market level title is really important to my satisfaction here, and senior officer isn’t market level. Would you be willing to ask HR if there’s a possibility of associate director?” Another possibility is to go with “I understand that in our organization it’s not possible right now, but a market-level title is really important to me. Could we firm up a plan and a timeline for getting me to associate director?”

      1. BRR*

        What a great answer (as always). How do you keep up with the open thread? You must tell me your secret.

        It’s totally love languages and I definitely don’t think the promotion will solve the real issue. I came to the conclusion a long that the only thing that will be effective is finding a new job. That’s absolutely perfect language. I really wish I could not have this be the hill I die on but I just feel so strongly that this is what I deserve for everything I’ve accomplished.

  85. HannahS*

    Difficult peer in medical school. Man, this guy. I don’t even know that I need advice, but dangit I need to get this off my chest.

    I’m in a seminar-style course (six hours a week), and one thing we do in the middle and at the end of the whole unit is a group evaluation. It’s one of those “go around in a circle and tell everyone one thing they should continue, and one piece of constructive criticism.” This guy (Fergus), well, I never liked him. My overall impression before we were in the seminar together was that he was low-key sexist, said things without thinking about them critically, had a bizarre need to be seen as special (“Hannah, we’re going to be in a group together! Guess I’ll have to tone down my weirdness so I don’t freak you out!” “Fergus, you can just be yourself” “No, I’m TOO WEIRD.”) Then, in group, it became clear that he’s incredibly insecure and in constant need of attention and reassurance. He gets defensive when questioned–it’s a seminar, what did he think would happen?–and establishes a dynamic where he’ll need us to chime in encouragingly to get him to share information. As in, “I have this graph, but I don’t know if anyone wants to see it….” “Sure, Fergus, go ahead.” “Wellll, I don’t knooowww….” “Oh please, Fergus, please, show us your graph.” Guys, I didn’t come to medical school to perform that level of emotional labour. On behalf of patients, hell yeah. But colleagues? If you can’t talk without constant positive feedback, what’s going to happen the first time a patient’s mom yells at you for not doing enough to save her kid?

    In our most recent feedback session, I pointed out that dynamic and said I don’t think it’s healthy for us, as a group, and I’m sympathetic for the need for positive feedback, but he should try to cut back. Our prof agreed. Fergus also got feedback from others about being more confident and less defensive. So. Later that night, I get a long and hostile email from Fergus, copied to the prof, about how I was attacking him and taking cheap shots, how I misunderstood him completely, no one shows him the appropriate level of respect, and how doesn’t the whole group have a lot of to learn from him? He’s so much more mature than all of us! (Yes, really.) My professor wrote to me privately, apologizing, and reassuring me that I have nothing to worry about or apologize for. Nevertheless, I wrote to Fergus and apologized for hurting his feelings (we have two other classes together; I was trying to cut down on awkwardness). He wrote back a snarky “You didn’t hurt my feelings.” Well. Sorry I wounded your damn masculine pride, then. I know that Fergus and professor had a private meeting, and in our more recent class my professor encouraged Fergus to share his feelings of not feeling respected. Someone asked him what, specifically, was the issue. Essentially, Fergus wants feedback to be phrased as positively as possible (so…not constructively). Fergus wants us to watch our tone and body language, to make sure it conveys respect. Fergus wants to know that he has our full attention when he speaks. Fergus feels lonely when he’s up at the board, can we make sure we aren’t silent when he’s trying to teach us stuff?

    Fergus is ridiculous. He thinks that his shrinking passivity (and occasional aggression) is the same as gentleness. He also engaged in exactly the pattern of behaviour that I had pointed out during class. He’s also…THIRTY TWO YEARS OLD! Yes, in case you were picturing some slightly immature 21 year-olds with some growing up to do, I’m 25 and he’s 32. And he’s going to be a doctor, coming soon to a terribly unfortunate clinic near you. I can’t even tell anyone in my class about it in more than the vague-est terms, because I want to be the bigger person, but damn, being the bigger person is a lot less fun than showing his email to everyone I know.

      1. HannahS*

        Thanks! It’s only another month before I’m through spending so much time with him, thank goodness.

    2. Amber Rose*

      See, this is why I bristle when anyone tells me I “need” to see a doctor. There are probably plenty of doctors who actually care about their job more than their ego. I’ve even met one or two. But inevitably I run into a Dr. Fergus at my most vulnerable and it totally screws me up. Doctors are people. They are not infallible or without flaws just because they got through med school. My husband works at a hospital and is just finding out now what I already knew: the good ones are great, and the bad ones are the WORST.

      I need a doctor like that like I need to be sprayed by a skunk, regardless of how sick I am.

      1. HannahS*

        It just kills me. I’ve been on the receiving end of awful treatment myself, and I can’t stand how badly the Drs. Fergus hurt people and ruin their relationship with medicine. I don’t get it; the competition to get in is so stiff! How can it be that we can’t choose better people than Fergus?!

    3. Snark*

      I think your feedback should be honest, neutrally phrased, and constructive, I think your tone and body language should convey the same professional collegiality and regard you’d show for any other colleague, and I think you should give him just as much attention and engagement as you would anybody else….and if he needs more of any of that than you’re inclined to give, I think that’s his problem to deal with like the adult he is, not the manchild he insists on conducting himself as. And I think you can honestly state that his demands for extraordinary respect and gentle treatment equate to more emotional labor than you think it’s appropriate for a colleague to demand.

      1. HannahS*

        Thanks, Snark. I was actually thinking this morning about what I’m going to say when he inevitably criticized me in person for not respecting him enough. It’s hard, because before, I didn’t really like or respect him but I felt sorry for him, being so insecure and all, but now I have zero respect AND a sense of disgust…you’re so right, though, neutral and constructive is the way to go.

        1. Snark*

          I think when he inevitably demands fealty, you can say just that: “I will treat you with the same collegiality and respect I’d treat anyone else in this program with, and I’ll provide the same thoughtful and constructive feedback. But I’m not comfortable with a request for extraordinary treatment.”

      2. Pollygrammer*

        And don’t engage! Don’t feel the need to apologize or defend your (totally normal) behavior. He may never see it as HIS problem, but it is. It sounds like the professor is doing a pretty good job telling him his crybaby expectations of perfect deference aren’t reasonable.

        Or maybe this is one of the few occasions where the passive-aggressive non-apology is appropriate–“I’m sorry you took it that way.”

        1. HannahS*

          Thanks. Yeah, I’m really hoping that enough people (over the course of the many similar seminars with different groups) will give the same feedback that eventually it’ll sink in…or barring that, upset him so much he’ll drop out.

    4. MechanicalPencil*

      Wait, doesn’t being silent when someone’s trying to teach something convey respect? So he’s asking for disrespect? There is so much wrong with what he’s asking for.

      But kudos to your prof for privately telling you that what you did was acceptable. And THANK YOU for trying to put a stop to an emotionally stunted doctor. If he were truly “more mature”, he would have accepted the constructive criticism and taken it to heart and started working to change that about himself. He instead had to tattle through a cc’d email about his feelings. Like a “mature” adult.

    5. KR*

      I think honestly to be the bigger person you need to stop engaging. You tried giving him feedback and he didn’t take it well at all. So stop giving him feedback or wasting a lot of emotional energy to reassure him. Keep your feedback very bland if you have to give it.

      1. HannahS*

        I think the thing is, for me, that I don’t want to stop giving him feedback, because I’m still expected to give (and receive) feedback from the rest of the group. I don’t want to “reward” his bad behaviour by giving him what he wants. I’m balancing these conflicting feelings of, well it’s definitely easier to just forget about it, and I definitely want to spend zero more emotional energy on him, but we’re going to be doctors, and one thing I committed to myself was that I would try call out bad behaviour among doctors and fellow students when I felt I could reasonably expect myself to. But I magically want to do it without expending emotional effort. Ugh.

        1. Lumen*

          It will always take emotional effort to give honest feedback to someone who doesn’t take honest feedback well, but think of it like this: you are expending that emotional effort for YOUR benefit, not his.

          You are practicing a skill that will matter in your career for a lot longer than Fergus is around, so it’s important you keep giving honest, constructive feedback and let him have his widdle meltdowns over it. Stand strong in your integrity. Say silently to yourself: “This isn’t about him.” He apparently can’t see that, but you can, and that’s what will make you the better physician.

    6. Lumen*

      Well, first: put a full stop on Emotional Labor For Fergus. It sounds like your professor can see the problems with this guy, so I think if he complains further (especially after being given his little “everyone disrespects me” moment in the spotlight), it will come back to haunt him, not you.

      Good responses when Fergus is having one of his mini meltdowns or trying to get attention by being ‘weird’ or ‘insecure’:

      (to almost anything he says that is ridiculous) “Okay. + *moving on*”
      (when he feels disrespected/attacked) “Sorry you feel that way.”
      (when he’s not sure anyone wants to see his graph) “Well, that’s your decision.”
      (when the team/group is getting hung up on comforting Fergus) “Let’s move on/get back on topic.”
      (when he huffs that you didn’t hurt his manly man feelings) “Glad to hear it!”
      (when he demands you be more positive/respectful) “I believe what I said was appropriate. Do you have a response?”
      (when he makes other unreasonable demands of your behavior) “I’m afraid I won’t be able to do what you’re asking. However [insert the reasonable thing you ARE willing to do]”

      And so on. Don’t manage his emotions. Don’t anticipate his needs and adjust to them in advance. Don’t wrap him in fluffy cotton. Fergus is Fergus’s problem.

      I commend you for wanting to be the bigger person, but that just means not going out of your way to undermine or attack him (which is just sinking into his quagmire more). It doesn’t mean going out of your way to make sure Fergus feels comfortable, no matter how many classes you are in together. He certainly isn’t concerning himself with anyone else’s comfort.

      Focus on what matters, and treat Fergus like he clearly wants to be treated: like his behavior is weird, ridiculous, unreasonable, and inappropriate. He will moan and wail about how he’s been proven right, but you know what? He was going to do that anyway.

      In AAM parlance: Fergus sucks, and he’s not going to change. And I’m willing to bet that moment in the spotlight you professor gave him was a double-edged sword.

      1. HannahS*

        Thanks! You’re right, any emotional effort I spend is for ME, to try and work towards a learning environment that I want. Neutral, unsatisfying (to him) responses are the way to go.

      2. Oranges*

        Yes, Furgus is getting attentions. He loves them soooo much his preciousessss. It’s hard not to give them to him because we’ve been trained to do so. Just like ignoring a crying baby in a restaurant is really really hard, but sometimes you need to ignore them.

        Stop giving him attention pellets. He needs to self-soothe his feelings. You don’t make others soothe your anxiety/feelings when you get feedback. You have learned how to seperate personal from performance and re-frame things to self soothe. Bllllarghhhh.

        2. HannahS*

          Oh my gosh, yes, it’s so automatic to change my behaviour to accommodate other people. No more attention pellets!

    7. Student*

      Ugh. The “woe is me, pay attention to me” type is so difficult to handle. And so many people fall for it completely, or at least give into it utterly.

      Serious constructive feedback is a gift you give someone to help them self-improve. Feel free to tone down how serious or thoughtful your feedback is to him, and focus that energy instead on yourself and on feedback you give others who are more receptive.

      You can even default to something that’ll needle him on this, if you like, “Fergus’s unusually defensive reactions to constructive feedback make it difficult to give him any serious constructive criticism. He seems overly concerned with the form of the criticism and doesn’t seem to try to wrestle with the actual content or intent.” It’s a simple and obvious trap, but I bet he walks right into it.

      1. HannahS*

        Haha I was daydreaming about our next evaluation in a few weeks, and how badly I want to tell him he needs to continue to work on receiving feedback with an open mind, grace, and dignity. But one thing I want to commit to is naming the feeling. Like, “Fergus, I realize you’re very sensitive but…” or “Fergus, I realize you’re anxious about this…” and just refuse to let him delude himself that he’s reasonable, rational, and emotionally stable. It’ll needle him. But it’ll also hopefully point out to the rest of the group that his demands are rooted in emotions that Fergus refuses to claim.

    8. Elizabeth West*

      Oh Goooooood I had this person in my health writing class. She was 53 though. I got to hear all about how she sued her employer and nobody would hire a 53-year-old woman who sued her former employer because blah blah blah yadda yadda, and we were attacking her because we wouldn’t let her take over our group project, etc. We ended up just turning in our parts and getting an individual grade, because she was impossible to work with and opted out of any collaboration. I think I even asked about this on an open thread.

      I think you are just going to have to let Fergus implode on his own. Just be as neutral as possible when dealing with him and don’t feed his attention-seeking. He doesn’t sound like he’s very happy where he is. But his feelings are not your responsibility.

      1. WellRed*

        Some people just go through life this way. It’s never them, it’s everybody else. They are exhausting and never change.

      2. HannahS*

        These people, right?! I need all these reminders to be neutral. Neutral, neutral, neutral. Honestly, he’s so sensitive that it would not surprise me at all if neutrality was enough to make him implode.

    9. irene adler*

      I knew this guy (or someone just like him) in his pre-med days.

      We had a writing class together.

      One day he showed up to class without having completed the homework assignment. Instructor asked him why. His response, “I’m studying for my MCATS because I’m going to medical school. I don’t need to turn in assignments on time.” He actually felt picked-on by the instructor for being held accountable for turning in assignments on time.

      Another time we were asked to write a critique on an essay about GOMERs (get out of my emergency room!). GOMERs are essentially homeless folks who find ways to get themselves admitted to hospital -for the food and shelter. The article was basically a rant about how awful it is to have to interact with these homeless people.

      Most of my fellow students were appalled at the insensitivity of the article. Not our future Dr. Schweitzer. He thought it was a great laugh. I know this because I had to grade his paper. I gave him a low grade. Not for his callousness but for his poor writing ability. He went right to the instructor to protest. She agreed with my assessment of his work.

      Hopefully this guy and your Fergus will end up working at some commercial research facility far away from patients. Maybe they will spend their days reviewing patient histories for drug companies. Boring!

      1. HannahS*

        Yeah. I can’t imagine that Fergus would even enjoy working with patients. It’s not like sick people (who, on top of feeling awful and feeling powerless about feeling awful, are also mad at how long you’ve kept them waiting) are always perfectly patient, encouraging, and respectful.

    10. Agnodike*

      Residency is going to eat Fergus alive. In the meantime, please don’t hesitate to set firm boundaries with him. All the advice about bland rejoinders etc is really good, but if he’s berating you about not giving him enough special treatment, you can be polite but firm in naming his inappropriate behaviour for what it is. “Fergus, it’s really inappropriate for you to be speaking to me like this and I can’t continue this conversation.” Shut him down and walk away if you can.

        1. Agnodike*

          A lot of your energy can get eaten up in feeling privately indignant that people are badly behaved. Try shifting to a goal-oriented mindset. What would you like to see happen at the end of your interaction? What’s the best way to get there. It’s important to understand that Fergus doesn’t need to come away from your interactions understanding that his behaviour is bad. That’s not your job. Your job is to salvage what you can of your professional interaction and leave Fergus’ problems to Fergus. (This is a good tip for clinical practice, too – if something is negatively impacting a patient, yes, step in. If you need to protect a vulnerable colleague, yes, step in. If it’s just Dr Fergus being a dingus and whining at you, nope, time to disconnect and let Dr Fergus figure out his own stuff.)

    11. Merci Dee*

      In the vein of denying Fergus any further attention….

      The next time he pops up with his “I have a chart/graph/photo/interpretive dance, but I don’t know if anyone wants to see it…”, just pop in with a polite smile and say, “okay then, we’ll give someone else a chance, then. Does anyone else have something they want to share?”

      Don’t beg to see it, just move on.

      Maybe, however, count in your head the seconds until he explodes to share his material. Or obtain a paint chip with several shades of red so that you can determine after class how dark a shade his face turned when people didn’t fawn and plead for him to continue.

      1. HannahS*

        Good idea! The last time he did that thing of “I don’t knowwww…” I just remained silent. And boy, it made him uncomfy.

      2. Snark*

        I love this so much. And I vote for counting the seconds. It’s like counting between the flash and the thunder to see how far away the lightning strike was – you can see just how far out of his mind he is by how many seconds it takes him to whargarbl, except the relationship is inverse in this case.

  86. Rather be in Bed*

    My GrandBoss is a micromanaging train wreck, and it’s having a larger than usual impact on my mental health status, which was already precarious. I’ve dealt with worse stress and situations, but I’m trying to treat a full on major depressive / anxiety / panic disorder episode and not in a good space. Medication is starting to kick in, but it’s a delicate balance right now. It takes a tremendous amount of mental energy just to get out of bed and do minimal self-care, nevermind dealing with work stress of any type. I’m under a huge deadline right now, and GrandBoss’ last minute interjecting of herself into areas she has no working knowledge of is taking me off task. With my mental health not being great it’s already hard to focus on anything.

    I feel better today, but all week I woke up so paralyzed by anxiety and unable to think straight my first coherant thought was “OMG! I’m going to have to take a medical leave!” I called in sick once. I just could not.

    I don’t know why I’m posting this except to be heard. I pretend I am totally functional at work, and it’s exhausting. I wish being clinically depressed and anxious was as easily a socially acceptable excuse for calling in for a week, like I would do if I had the flu. Physically there is nothing wrong with me though. So technically I can come to work. The reality is my job is all mental not physical, and my brain is not firing on a cylinders.

    1. Jess*

      I just want to say I completely understand and empathize, as I had to take 3 days off last week (also exacerbated by a caustic manager) because I’m currently having a crippling depressive episode, possibly the worst of my life. It was only through the gentle urging of friends that I was able to take the time for myself. In that spirit, I’ll gently remind you that your brain is a part of your body, and so physically there IS something wrong with you. Your brain is feeling sick. I know it doesn’t help with the continued societal stigma, but I know it at least internally helps me be kinder to myself to reframe depression as a BODILY ILLNESS, which it very much is.

      I also work in a place where it’s not “safe” to declare yourself depressed, and I also work an entirely mental job. I wish I had any other advice for you. Just know that you are heard and that you’re not alone. <3

    2. Amber Rose*

      I’m so sorry. I empathize. Calling in anxious is seen by my boss as calling in because you don’t feel like working, which is a horribly ableist and difficult stigma to deal with.

      Technically you can go to work even if there’s something physically wrong with you like the flu, but that doesn’t mean you should. Try not to absorb too much of that attitude that mental problems are somehow less than physical ones. They aren’t, your mental health is important, YOU are important, and you deserve the time and care you need to get better.

    3. Oranges*

      Yeah, I hear you there. You are sick. Yes, it’s mental illness but it’s still illness. My go to is if I need time off for mental illness and the company isn’t supportive, welp, I now have [insert illness here]. Migraines work well for me personally in those situations because reasons. Figure out how long you’ll need to be out and an illness that doesn’t have obvious symptoms.

      When someone denies your reality because they lack empathy, they don’t get the truth; they get whatever lie will make both of us happy.

  87. DMLT*

    Looking for employment and a career change after 20 years of running my own business. A one-woman show. Had three interviews this week, and all of them asked me some variation of the question “After 20 years working on your own, will you be able to work on a team?”
    I have answered the question each time discussing my experience on the working board of the state’s professional organization. I spent a decade working with the board, including a year as president, and that involved a lot of teamwork.
    After the first two interviews, I revised my resume to more clearly show that experience.
    Did not get any of the positions, and one of the people I interviewed with (second of the three interviews) told me it was because I have “no track record of working in a team or under a boss.”
    SO FRUSTRATED.

    1. yup*

      Uhh… presumably you still have clients? Those people are your boss! Sorry this happened to you, but I think it’s on them.

      Maybe on your resume, you can focus on how you partnered with clients to achieve a goal?

    2. AnotherAlison*

      I think you need to find another way to address this concern. My perspective is potentially skewed on this because I interview almost only project managers. I have had several candidates who didn’t really manage project teams who tried to spin their experience managing contracts or being a department manager, and I was not convinced that they were the right fit.

      Without knowing more about your business and what types of jobs you are looking for, it’s hard to give much input, but I think you’ll keep bumping up against this objection from people. Can you come in as an internal consultant to a manager or something like that? Or start somewhere as a contractor and work your way into a full time position? A 3rd party “one-man show” consultant was hired to help launch our group as a new business line ~5 yrs ago, and he is still here doing work.

  88. Teacher's Partner*

    A follow-up question from the sick-leave discussion earlier this week. I’m just curious to see where people fall.

    SO is an elementary teacher. Through a combination of snow and no running water in the fall, school has been closed for 7 days already. And for each day the school is closed, the last day of school gets moved out one more day. Teachers only get 3 personal days and SO had to use all but one for a sibling’s wedding over Thanksgiving (which was well before ANY of the snow days), but they have a ton of sick days.

    We planned a huge trip for a week and a half after the original last day of school from which we can’t get our money back. In hindsight, we should have played it safer and had it begin in July (the reason we didn’t is because SO is taking a summer course and needed to be back before it started, but still we could take a shorter trip or he could not take the class this year).

    So my question. Is it unethical to use one or two sick days (along with the one personal day SO still has)? SO is allowed to use sick days for doctor’s appointments and we live far enough from the school that a doctor appointment would take up the whole day.

    SO plans on talking to their union rep again (she was actually the one to suggest that to begin with) to see what she says. Other options are trying to use the personal days for the following academic year (2018-2019), or if there is any leeway with working other days that are off as professional development work days.

    tl;dr
    Teacher’s don’t get vacations and an overly cautious school and plumbing issues have pushed the last day of school a week and a half out. Is it unethical to use sick leave (“doctors appointments”) to make a pre-planned vacation that was originally after the last day of school?

    1. fposte*

      You mean taking sick days at the very end of the school year to go on vacation? Yeah, I’m really not a fan of that. It’s misrepresenting the absences, and it’s also a really tight time of year–would he even have been granted vacation days if they were requested during the last few days of the planned school year?

      I know the situation sucks, and I agree with talking to the union rep, but I think sick days would really hurt him there.

      1. Teacher's Partner*

        Well it would be sick days, and the thought would be that they would be “doctors appointments” that were scheduled before the new last day of school. SO rarely uses sick days. The last few days of school also aren’t graded or anything because the last day of the graded semester remains the same, even if the last day of school is extended.

        1. fposte*

          But they’re not doctor’s appointments, and the rare use of the sick days isn’t an issue; it’s claiming a last-minute unavoidable absence that draws on one pool for preplanned absence that should draw on another. And I can’t tell what you’re saying about whether a vacation would have been granted for the last few days of the semester or not, but in the schools I know the answer would have been no.

          Stick to the union as a way to explore possibilities here; if he lies, it’s the kind of lie that will come out, and it will hurt him.

          1. Teacher's Partner*

            I’m saying SO doesn’t get vacation. So there is nothing to be approved.

            Well, SO still has one personal day to use (for this reason exactly), but there is no issue of that not being approved. SO has been told by the union rep that the day could be taken unpaid if it comes to that, and depending on the principal’s mood regardless the school may just cancel those classes for those days (which aren’t even graded anyway).

    2. CM*

      I’m not a teacher, so big grain of salt. Personally, I think it is unethical to use sick leave for vacation. But I might still do it in this situation, if it’s something that other teachers would do. I guess if I felt like I could openly tell my colleagues what I was planning, I would do it. But if it was a shameful secret, then I wouldn’t do it.

      1. CM*

        Actually, re-reading, I think talking to the union rep and following their guidance is the best solution. The union rep should try to help with alternatives, but will also be able to give your SO a sense of whether this is acceptable.

    3. Snark*

      I think it’s unethical, personally, particularly when it sounds like your vacation could be rescheduled or the summer class skipped.

      1. amanda_cake*

        Teacher’s Partner says in her comment that they won’t be able to get their money back from the trip if they can’t go.

        To Teacher’s Partner–Personally, I think it really sucks. I used to teach and I would have never planned something so close to the end of school in case of makeup days or the like. I don’t think it’s ethical to use sick leave for this, however. I would have your partner discuss the situation with the union rep and perhaps their principal to see what advice they are given. Would it be a possibility to take those days off without pay?

        1. Teacher's Partner*

          We didn’t think it would be an issue either since it is over a week beyond the last day of school (and beyond the listed make-up days), but I also completely understand.

          I’m open to the days off without pay. I know SO is a little more uncomfortable with that (not from a financial standpoint), but because the principal could use that as a reason why SO’s program could be cut or classes cut back the next year because it is not important. I don’t know if that is something SO’s school does though.

    4. Teacher's Partner*

      I wanted to give a little more info.

      It was the union rep who initially suggested having “doctors appointments” though that was when there were far fewer days the school was closed than there are now. SO is going to talk to her again.

      The last day of the semester/quarter stays the same no matter how long the school year is extended. So even if they go until July, they can’t grade the students beyond X date.

      From what SO says, the business manager at the school will sometimes switch days staff take from PTO to sick leave since sick time rolls over and PTO doesn’t, that way staff can have more days off. That is a whole other can of worms, and not anything I want to get into (or feel comfortable with). SO could also be misunderstanding the situation. But a little context for the culture at the school.

      At the end of the day, it isn’t the end of the world and we’ll figure something out. I feel like the school has to have some sort of procedure even if it is unpaid (which is also OK, as long as SO doesn’t get fired) for situations. My personal preference is that they will allow SO to use Personal Days from the following academic year (August/September 2018). Or you know that we stop getting snow/they stop cancelling school when the weather and roads aren’t bad.

    5. New Bee*

      Former elementary school teacher (currently AP) here. I’d say if your SO has a good relationship with their principal to just be honest. I know plenty of people (me included) who’ve gotten exceptions for leave (including a friend who’s from overseas, people who’s summer jobs started before school got out, multiple weddings/graduations, etc.). Our time system allows you to go into the negative on PTO and sick, though the principal might just give permission to use the sick days. The trip was booked in good faith, and since school’s already been pushed a week (which is extreme), a principal invested in keeping your SO (presumably a good teacher) will probably understand. Plus advance notice leaves plenty of time to line up a sub!

    6. Julianne*

      When we had 8 snow days a couple of years ago, one of the teachers on my grade level team was able to take off the last two days of school unpaid; she was doing so to go to her brother’s wedding, though. (I’m not saying that’s a better excuse than a vacation, just that it was something that was extremely important to her that she couldn’t possibly reschedule even if she tried.) It’s not a great option, but I’m on team “sick time is for sickness and/or real medical appointments.”

      It does sound like trying to borrow vacation days from next school year is probably the best approach.

    7. Teacher's Partner*

      Another update from the union rep.

      She still suggested taking sick days (“doctors appointments”). She also mentioned talking to the assistant principal and seeing if the two of them can work something out, as well as possibly the superintendent (small school). She also said that as a last resort SO can take the days unpaid.

      1. Lady Russell's Turban*

        Don’t take the union rep’s advice–their advice isn’t law and lying is still wrong. Your year-end absence will probably be notable, and imagine if a parent figures out you were on vacation while you were supposedly out with doctor’s appointments? If you live in a state where many politicians (and citizens) are all for busting the teachers’ unions, this could cause a pretty big brouhaha. Talk with the principal or whomever else can make the call to give you the time off legitimately, with or without pay. I would do it without pay because the school is going to have to pay for a sub and the “paying double for a teacher to go to the beach (or wherever)” would get plenty of folks up in arms.

        1. Teacher's Partner*

          SO is in BFE small school (but we don’t live there) and is beloved by the parents. There is no way this would rise to any sort of scandal. The only person who would be up in arms is the principal (whom no one likes and was almost fired last year). I realize that is catty but he has actively been antagonistic toward the staff and parents; the board even voted to have him removed but he was able to find a loophole for another year.

          I realize I’m probably coming across really entitled/that I’m not actually listening. I actually don’t care if SO takes the days unpaid or not. Seeing the strong reactions here (compared to the laissez-faire reaction of the union rep) are helping frame it better and give better perspective. It also helps illustrate just how dysfunctional SO’s school is (which ties in to other suggestions from the union rep which were…even more questionable).

          Right now SO still has 1-2 days to play with depending on the how the rest of the winter goes in leeway before we leave (I don’t know their exact last day of school) and then an extra day with the last personal day. So there might not be an issue at all. If there is, SO will probably go and talk to the assistant principal first and see what their thoughts/ideas are, which was the more reasonable suggestion of the union rep. Then worst case scenario the days go unpaid.

      2. Middle School Teacher*

        I’m really shocked at this union rep. I can’t believe she’s the one suggesting it.

        I’m in Canada so my situation is different, but if I used sick days for a holiday, I’d be disciplined and possibly suspended. But our union is quite strict. I agree with New Bee; just be honest with the principal.

        1. Teacher's Partner*

          Eh, she said a few other things that were…not smart or really advisable (all second-hand information, but SO does professionally respect her so I don’t think it would be purposely misconstrued). So I totally understand the shock.

    8. Anono-me*

      Do NOT do the Sick Leave/Doctor Appointments thing.

      Your partner will most likely have to fill a leave slip indicating what type of sick leave is being used. Your vacation is most likely not a secret. Some people will consider the use of sick leave for the vacation a type of fraud. * You say everyone loves your partner. I 100% guarentee somebody at work is jealous of or hates your partner.

      Not trying to go down the is it or isn’t it rabbit hole. Just pointing out that if somebody wanted to make trouble for your partner, that they could make the argument.

  89. Librarian Ish*

    Any recommendations on changing your name at work? I changed my entire name – first, middle, last. I go by one name at home but I’m still going by my old name at work. I’m worried about confusing folks and complicating…everything :/

    1. fposte*

      It’s also confusing to use two different names at the same time, isn’t it? I mean, you don’t have to change your name at work if you don’t want to, but if you do, go ahead and file your paperwork, send out an email, change your nameplates and cards, and be forgiving of people as they get used to the transition.

    2. Jillociraptor*

      A colleague at my last job changed her name, and just sent out an email to contacts saying that she’s now known as X. Weird people were weird about it, and most people just moved on with their lives and started calling her by her new name. People messed up sometimes, but usually corrected themselves quickly. I didn’t see too much complication result from this, and the colleague didn’t mention many issues either. In any case, it’s not unreasonable to want to be referred to using your preferred name at work!

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Someone at OldExjob changed his name to that of a fictional character from a famous sci-fi book series. The HR manager sent out an email something like: “Bob Johnson has changed his legal name to Arthur Dent and is now going by that name. Please use the new one from now on.” If his coworkers on the manufacturing floor called him by the old name, he just goodnaturedly corrected them and eventually, they got used to it.

      Only one other nerd and I knew where the name came from, and I thought it was cool. Now I honestly can’t even remember what his previous name was. People will get used to it in time, just as if you changed a surname through marriage or divorce or whatever.

      1. KatiePie*

        I like your use of Arthur Dent as the filler. I just finished re-reading the entire series about 3 days ago.

  90. Public Historian*

    I’m a grad student so my job right now are my 3 classes and one TA class (we don’t teach, we grade but we need to be there every session).

    What is the proper real job etiquette for colds? Last fall I had two bouts (that never went away and blew up into an infection) and I missed 2 normal classes and a TA session because I was that tired.

    Right now I don’t have the flu and that is all I know. It’s only the first week and I’ve already missed one class!

    At my old job at a grocery store i’d drug myself with OTC stuff until I couldn’t, but that has a level of disfunction hopefully not found in more steady jobs. If someone just feels god awful but isn’t contagious (or is but it’s not the flue!) what is the usual rule of thumb?

    1. LF*

      Hopefully teachers can chime in because I think teaching is different than other kinds of jobs. I try to work from home when I’m sick if it makes sense. Or I don’t work if I really am *that* sick. But my job is not dependent on my being physically present in front of other individuals.

      For the TA class, I would check with the lead professor and ask what their preference/philosophy is regarding coming to class sick, and take that into account for your decision-making.

      For the classes that you teach directly, I think you need to consider whether, if you miss a class, you will still be able to cover the course material in your remaining classes.

    2. selina kyle*

      If you’re going to be a professor it likely has different protocols/norms. As is, I usually miss if I think that I’m pretty contagious (a co-worker has health/immune issues so I try to be extra mindful of that) or if I just feel out and out awful. I’d say I miss a day every other month or so? (Lower in the non-winter/flu season, but right now I think I’ve missed a day or two in November and January)

    3. Elizabeth H.*

      As a PhD student I think I missed class because of being sick once or twice (It took me a minute to figure out you were talking about attending a class vs teaching it!) as well as missing class for being out of town. If it only meets once a week, I would probably try to go to it unless I had the flu (as opposed to a cold – the kind with fever, body chills, ache etc). If it were a cold I would 100% go to class. It sort of depends on your department though and the size of the classes and what classes they are. If it’s a grad seminar then yes always go unless you are like dying. If it’s a mixed undergrad/grad class or a lecture then no (I skipped a couple lectures for a really easy history survey class due to having something more important to do). I did miss a once-a-week grad seminar at least once if not twice in my 2 years due to extreme sickness . . . I think. I got notes from another student and met with the professor to check in about what I missed.

    4. Dr. KMnO4*

      Having gone through grad school I’ll give you the advice I wish I had received: Your health is more important than any class you are taking. Your health is more important than your research.

      I pushed myself to work through several illnesses, of varying severity, and it was never a good idea. Add the fact that you are contagious and I would suggest staying home if you feel very ill. The more rest you get now, the faster you will recover. I think it’s better to do no work for a few days then come back and work at 90+% capacity instead of pushing through and only working at 50% capacity for a week or more.

  91. Why does it want me to say my name?*

    One of the letters in this morning’s post made me think about something that happened when I worked at a state government office many years ago. The office would be, say, the State Department of Kitchenware. I worked in the Teapot Division, and there were several different subsections – Blue Teapots, Red Teapots, etc. that were under that umbrella. My section was Yellow Teapots. All of our employees used time cards, and each employee had to sign their card before I turned it in to the Teapot Division office. The Teapot Division would then report everyone’s hours to the Kitchenware Payroll Department, which was completely separate from the Teapot Division.

    I wasn’t allowed to turn in time cards that hadn’t been signed by the employee. If someone didn’t sign their card before the end of the pay period, I turned it in when it did finally get signed, but it wouldn’t go to Payroll until the next pay period, meaning the employee’s check would be delayed by two weeks. I was told that Payroll wouldn’t accept the time cards if they weren’t signed. Keep in mind that they still knew exactly how many hours that employee had worked. I don’t know why employees didn’t sign their time card on day 1, but several (all part-time) missed the cut-off every time.

    When I left that job, I was training my replacement, and in the course of that I learned that Payroll didn’t care if the time cards were signed. Payroll never even *saw* the time cards. The Teapot Division kept the cards on file and reported the hours worked on a form to Payroll. So employee checks were delayed because they had violated a policy that Teapot Division came up with on their own.

    I hate to be the person who asks “is this legal,” but… is this legal? Considering that this was a state office, is it legal for one department (of hundreds) to come up with their own policy, and delay employee’s checks for an entire payroll period if it wasn’t followed? And whether or not it’s legal, does it sound really inappropriate to anyone but me?

      1. CM*

        +1, it sounds like you are in the US and people need to be paid for their work regardless of whether they properly filed paperwork. The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) covers public agencies.

        1. Why does it want me to say my name?*

          Yes, this happened in the U.S. The people were all eventually paid; their checks were delayed until the next pay period.

          2. Natalie*

            It definitely depends on the state. In mine, the amount of time an employer has to pay you is fairly long – when my husband’s employer deposited his paycheck into the wrong account by accident and wanted to wait until they got the money back from Whoever to fix it, the state told me I had to wait nearly a month before we could file a complaint.

            That said, legality aside I agree with Tara that it’s grounds for complaint regardless. In my experience, only ineffective managers mess with people’s pay as a form of discipline. Even in circumstances where it is legal, I don’t personally think it should ever be in the manager toolbox.

    2. SanDiegoSmith82*

      My husband worked for a school district as a classified (non teaching) employee- supervisors would regularly “lose” his time sheets and he’d end up short hours- He was paid monthly, and one month, they were missing literally 80 hours (1/2 a month’s work/pay). It was due to THEIR errors, and the payroll people refused to issue a new check until the next monthly pay period. We tried to go to the CA Labor board, and unfortunately, school districts and several state offices are exempt from most of the paycheck timing laws. So basically not only did we have to wait, but because his check looked so huge, Uncle Sam got a whole lot more of it than if he’d been paid as he should have been- and there was literally nothing that we could do since there was no union for his role. We got him out of that job quickly, but getting his final check was just as big of a headache.

    3. Observer*

      It was probably not legal – not because it was their own policy but because there is a time limit to when people need get paid, and this sounds like it was too long.

  92. Sunshine on a cloudy day*

    What do you do if you think that someone generally considered to be a priviliged person (white male) is getting better work assignments, more responsibility, more autonomy at the expense of their less “privileged” peers (two females of color) (sidenote – I don’t know if I’m wording this all wrong – please feel free to let me know if anything I say is offensive, but do know that it is not my intent), and that the distribution of said assignments, etc. is not based on performace/ability.

    I feel like I see this happening within my department, however a.) I am junior to all the people involved (and generally a privileged person as well – white female – if that matters) and b.) I’m not their manager – so I’m obviously not privvy to all aspects of their performance. I do work fairly closely with all three though (and have more specific experience in this industry than any of them – long story there) so I think I have a fairly accurate view and ability to judge their performance, but again – totally acknowledge that there could be more than meets the eye there.

    I don’t think this a straight race/gender thing. I think this is more of a favoritism thing (which, as frustrating as it is, I don’t think there’s anything that can be done), however the optics of the favorite being the white male, to the detriment of his females of color peers looks pretty bad. I do think there’s a bit of “this what a succesfull person in this field looks like” more along the lines of socio-economic level, what school you went to, what connections does you family have etc). – but even that does incorporate race/gender issues. I guess I’m just trying to say that i don’t think its quite as ugly as straight up racism/gender based bias., but it’s still not good.

    Is there anything I can do, particularly and again, as junior person. Is it even appropriate to say something as junior person. As a peer or as someone senior I would have no problem. I’m just terrified that if I brought it to HR, they’d ask boss (who happens to be my boss as well). Boss would just say white male is more capable has a better performance record, and than I would look ridiciculous and most likely that it would get back to my boss that I was the one who said something.

    Bit of extra info – this boss has a lot of clout. She is second in command to head of dept. and has a very close relationship with the head of the department. There are supposed to be three people of the same level (including herself) that report directly to the head of the dept. She has been here for 10 years, the other two roles have cycled in and out, each usually lasting 2yrs or so.

    Any advice on how to navigate this would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Sunshine on a cloudy day*

      Oh, also – our HR is decent, but I’ve witnessed some gossipyness -that’s why I’m concerned about it getting back to boss that I’m the one brought this up.

    2. CM*

      This is very tricky and I definitely would not go to HR. It doesn’t sound like you have standing to go to Boss either. Maybe you could talk to the two women of color and not say “I think you’re being discriminated against” but instead give them information they might not have about how the department works, what assignments they’re getting versus their male peers, what you see their male peers getting access to that they’re not? For example, “Are you going along to the golf outing today with Bill and the VPs?”

      1. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

        Oh they’re fully aware of all assignments that whiteguy is getting. Actually an update – one of the women just put in her two weeks notice. I didn’t want to bring it up directly, but I brought it up round aboutly – I confided in her that I was also looking. My previous plan had to been to move into a role at her level as soon as one opened up, but now I’m realizing that’s not the right move. So I told her that part, and then phrased it as “I see the assignments and level of responsibility that you are given, and honestly I think that you’re capable of more. Was that a factor in your decision to leave? It’s a huge part of why I’m looking to leave as well, because I don’t want to hold out for a promotion only to be in that type of situation”. She agreed that it was a large part of her reason for looking.

    3. anonynony*

      You could try bringing it up as a question related to yourself, say at a review asking for an overview of what advancement and success looks like here. Ask specifically whether certain skills/knowledge you know the two women in question have would help or if they’re really not a big deal. As a junior employee, your role is not one to evaluate and decide, but to let those whose role that is get a glimpse in the mirror of what these decisions look like to other employees. By asking this question, it may be that they say these skills are super important, absolutely required, and then at some later date they may connect the dots and realize that the privileged person doesn’t have them. OR, it may be that they say well, those are nice to have, but what really matters is the ability to bring in clients like Bill does, and then you’ll get a better idea of why this seeming discrepancy is allowed to continue.

      1. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

        Hmmm, this sparked an idea – what if I actually brought it in terms of whiteguy – maybe bringing it up along the lines of “whiteguy seems to have advanced so quickly beyond the other analysts. He’s doing exactly the types of assignments and responsibilities that I would love to do one day. Can you tell me what sort of skills or knowledge that I would need to set myself apart in a similar way”

        I guarantee bosses responses would just be “he’s just very good at this work”. But maybe that would get other folks in the room thinking. Or maybe she would have some hard ideas that might clue me in things that would explain the discrepancy that I think I see.

        It’s very weird. I totally agree that as a junior employee it’s not my place to evaluate and decide upon performance related matters. At the same time, I do fully believe that it is EVERYONE’s responsibility to report instances of racism/misogyny/bias based on protected classes. This is such an awkward instance where those two things intersect, and I feel almost obligated to do something… At the very least – I’m planning to leave the company as soon as possible. Maybe I’ll say something in my exit interview. It’s cowardly, but at least I’ll feel like I’ve done something to bring attention to the (possible) issue.

    4. Student*

      In your head, call a spade a spade. You don’t need to give them excuses for obvious bad behavior.

      When you try to deal with it, you can’t actually call it a spade because people will get defensive. So find a different approach to still get what you want without bringing up the elephant in the room.

      Go to your boss and say something like “I’ve noticed that WhiteGuyName tends to get the assignments that are more *in my interest area / high profile / complicated / autonomous* than the assignments I get, on average. I am very interested in getting more assignments that are *name assignment feature here that is important to you*. How can I make that happen? Is there something specific you’d want to see me do differently to achieve that?”

  93. Jess*

    I have been in my current job for roughly four years, and have recently come to accept that it’s just not for me. A lot of it is my boss — narcissistic, gossipy, unsupportive, mercurial — but even if she were gone, the job itself would still bore me. I know we generally advise against it, but I’m considering planning to quit on a set date (say, May 1) and take 3-4 months off to rest, do some personal/professional development stuff, and plan my small, end of summer wedding. I have money I can live off of for that time, so that’s not a concern. (I also have a steady part-time job that I am hoping to eventually, maybe, flesh out into a full time job). I mostly just feel like I really, desperately need a mental health break. Have any of you done this, and do you have any anecdotes or advice? I’m not terribly concerned about accounting for the time — I will still be employed, and I have no problems saying that I decided to take some time between jobs — but mostly am curious about the best way to structure this type of sabbatical if I end up taking it.

    1. AMM Newbie*

      I quit a job I loved of four years almost two summers ago and pretty much did the same thing. I was moving from one state to another to be with my fiance and needed the mental break as I had been a full-time employee and student for the past year. I had been saving money aside for a while so had the means to quit on set date and move and took about five months off and it was really helpful to re-calibrate and wind down and enjoy each day as it happened and not have a plan for each day. I read, caught up on shows, slept late, traveled, did a bit of professional development. It was nice.

      It’s good you have a part-time job you can do as about three months in I started to get bored and was extremely ready to jump back into work so was happy that about four months in I got an offer I loved. The gap was easy to explain and caused no problem.

      I would suggest taking one month or so to just be in the everyday, decompress and just do whatever feels right. Add in elements as you feel comfortable and don’t feel like you’re doing something if you’re not, it’s your break – let your mind and body dictate how you structure it. Enjoy your break if you decide to take it – I really enjoyed mine.

      1. Jess*

        Oh man, thanks for weighing in! It’s a scary leap to take, because it goes against the cultural norm in so many ways. (Also, though I know it’s not the right job for me, my current position is a really cushy setup for a person with my background — professional musician — and I’m aware that in some ways I’m giving up a good thing. Only in some ways, though.)
        I’m hoping to spend the time developing my writing (a former passion), figuring out my job trajectory, and all that, while also just, like, playing with my dog and traveling and enjoying some free time. Plus, the wedding. I’m glad to hear a positive report from someone who’s done it :)

  94. Folklorist*

    Tell me stories of your awesome bosses!

    Man, I think I’ve written in AAM comments a lot of times about the toxic bosses who taught me What Not To Do and How Not To Run a Business. Gotta say that I’m filled with gratitude now for my amazing boss, who always goes to bat for his employees. This week, he won an award for a project that he did 98% of the work on. I contributed the last 2%. He offered to send me to the fancy and expensive awards banquet because I was a valued contributor and because the networking opportunity would be more valuable to me. (I said no–I’ll go when something I’ve contributed 98% on won. And that we should take the staff out to lunch to celebrate with the money instead.)

    Just now, my coworker found out that she accidentally put through the wrong invoice for one of our contractors and didn’t pay him for a full job. My boss apologized to the contractor and said it was his fault–because he should have caught the mistake before it got sent to accounting department. Rolls off the back, no one is in trouble; honest mistake.

    I’m so lucky to be in a place where my boss shows, constantly through his actions, what it is to look out for the best interest of his employees whenever something comes up. I feel like I’m always learning to be a better employee and will someday be a good manager because of him!

    Tell me stories of your great bosses!

    1. Buffy*

      My last boss was absolutely fantastic. I can’t exactly pick out one story for some reason, but just in general he was very supportive and set clear, high expectations. I was able to exceed even my own expectations and got poached for a higher level job only a year in!

      I was sad to go, but I stayed in the same organization and hope to work with him again in the future!

    2. CM*

      After leaving a job where I was expected to be 100% on 100% of the time, I went to a much more laid-back job. The first time my kid got sick, I emailed my boss saying I would work from home that day and expected to be back the next day. She said, “Take all the time you need. No need to work on a sick day — feel free to spend that time taking care of your family, and we’ll talk about work when you’re fully back and ready to focus.” I almost cried.

      1. Triumphant Fox*

        This is my current boss and it is incredible. I did the exact same – went from long hours, longer commute to a much more chill environment. When I answered an email on an off day, my boss was like “Please know that this is your time – I don’t expect responses on your days off.” He knows the environment I came from and has been super firm about work/life balance – I am so appreciative.

    3. KR*

      My boss lets me take unpaid time off and flex my time a lot (it’s a temp to hire situation and I’m in the temp part of it so no paid vacation).
      He lets me bring my dog to work.
      He takes us out to eat whenever he visits and took my husband and I out to eat just so he could get to know my husband and us on a more personal level.
      He gives me consistent and honest feedback.
      He speaks well of me to his boss.
      He doesn’t micromanage at all and is willing to micromanage if requested.

    4. Elizabeth H.*

      I love my boss. It’s just the two of us in our office (director and administrator). She values my opinion, always asks me for my input in major decisions, but still provides some structure and guidance for work processes. To be honest my only complaint is that sometimes I wish she’d ask me for my input and collaboration LESS because even if she made some decision I didn’t like, it would take less time! But I am so appreciative that the values my work and wants me to contribute my perspective to virtually all of our decisions. I also just enjoy her so much as a person and it’s a true pleasure to work with her. A few personal things have come up and I feel like we have a lot to connect with, but I feel like we also have a really good balance of professional regard and appropriate distance. Also she is funny and thinks that I’m funny and it’s just generally so pleasant to work with her. She encourages me to expand my skills and get a ton of valuable experience in new areas like marketing and connecting more closely with other departments (IT, finance etc.). Working with her is possibly my favorite thing about the job.

    5. On The Road Again*

      I love my boss! I spend about 5 months of the year at a vendor site in a different state. It’s just me and my lead, and other than alternating weekends home, we’re each other’s only link to “real life.” As you can imagine, we spend a lot of long hours working together and collaborating, as well as talking/venting about personal stuff. He has made it a key priority to develop me the past couple years; this year he let me lead all meetings, sit in on all his calls, and he’d often ask me my opinion when issues would come up, like “What would you do if you were lead?” The goal is for me to lead the site next year. That alone makes me feel so grateful. Once I sent him a message thanking him for his advice and his focus on my development. His response: “You are welcome. More important you are worthy.” Warm fuzzies all over the place!

    6. NW Mossy*

      My boss is amazing, and I’m seeing it particularly this week as we’re dealing with a massive challenge that’s reverberating up to the very top. In spite of how hard this has been on her and the phenomenal level of stress and fear she’s dealing with, she has consistently taken the time to thank me and my team for the work we’re doing to help on the issue. It’s such a small thing, but speaks to how well she manages generally.

    7. Tara*

      Boss I just left was the best. She cared about my growth, found me/supported me in taking new on more duties, gave me great feedback on my work, was super reasonable in her expectations. Also was a nice person with whom I clicked. I left because grandboss wouldn’t approve the promotion my boss was asking for me, and while my new job is definitely the right step for my career, I will always be grateful to my old boss.

      Also, one of my internship bosses sat me down and told me “don’t take a job offer unless you make $X, you won’t be able to live on less” and talked to me about how to negotiate. She also told me to drink tequila instead of beer, because you still get drunk but it’s fewer calories.

      Good bosses are worth their weight in gold. I hope to be one some day.

    8. WellRed*

      I am a writer. My boss is good about knowing when to “talk me off the ledge” even as she’s probably stressed herself that I am behind. Also, gives me a lot of authority/autonomy ti manage my schedule ir make decisions. Also, when she went on maternity leave, she emailed to say she wanted to buy me lunch. I ordered from the local popular lunch place and when i picked it up, there was a $100 gift card in my name.

    9. Ramona Flowers*

      My grandboss refused to accept a ticket for an awards evening until he’d been assured that there were enough for the people who did the project work.

      When someone died who wasn’t family on paper, and I asked a really awkward question about whether there was a policy on paid leave for funerals, he twigged immediately and told me that as far as he was concerned it was fine if it was someone close and that might mean something different for everyone.

      1. Kuododi*

        I will always have a soft spot in my heart for a boss I had many years ago in one of those survive grad school jobs. Actually I had just graduated with my Masters, DH and I got married two weeks after my graduation and after we got back from honeymoon, he had one semester left and I was working to keep the bills paid until we moved in eight months for our residencies. I worked during the day at a call CTR and in the evening as a receptionist at a flooring store. (My sister got me that job). Probably two-three weeks after we got back from honeymoon, I got fired from the call CTR job. (3/4of our income at that time….major panic…. crazy boss let me go but that’s another story). Long story short…when the owner of the flooring store heard I had lost my day job he created a full-time job for me doing data entry, general office work and receptionist in the evening. That job kept the bills paid and us in beand and rice until we moved south for our residency training. I will always be grateful to him for that kindness.

  95. MMM*

    I’m in the midst of a long and fruitless job search and could use some advice.

    I consistently get rejected for jobs (and even volunteer opportunities) due to lack of experience. I know that job postings are more wish lists than set requirements, so I generally apply to the ones asking for 1-3 years of experience rather than 3-5. I’m confident that I could learn just about any skill/software/strategy etc given the opportunity and some time, but that first requires an employer willing to give me the chance.

    I can’t go back in time and add more/better/different internships, so at this point what can I do? Is there some big secret that everyone else knows that I’m not let in on? How does anyone else get jobs and escape the endless catch-22 of needing a job to get experience but not being able to get a job due to lack of experience?

    1. Frustrated Optimist*

      I feel your pain of a long and fruitless job search. Only my situation is that I have 25+ years of experience and I have been looking to change jobs for 2.5 years.

      You asked: “Is there some big secret that everyone else knows that I’m not let in on?” Here’s the thing: I don’t think it’s about experience. I think it’s about who you know. I wish I had some concrete suggestions for you. Are you on LinkedIn?

      1. MMM*

        I am on LinkedIn, but more for job searching rather than networking. I don’t have the connections that some of my friends have definitely been able to leverage for jobs. Occasionally I’ll get a form message from recruiters but never with jobs I’m interested in/qualified for

        1. Frustrated Optimist*

          I have had *some* luck looking up people (strangers) on LinkedIn in fields or jobs I’m interested in and sending them an invitation, explaining that I’m looking to branch into their field, etc. Sometimes they reply and accept the request; sometimes not.

          If they accept the LinkedIn request, I try to arrange an informational interview. A lot of times, I don’t hear from them again. Or sometimes they’ll say they can meet, but they may or may not be responsive to actually setting up the meeting. However, once in a while, you’ll stumble upon a good soul who is willing to sit down with a relative stranger for 20 – 30 minutes. I will say that I’ve often gotten some good insights from these meetings, but sadly no actual job leads down the road.

          It’s worth a shot, though. At the very least, I’ve been able to build up the number of contacts I have on LinkedIn.

        2. Frustrated Optimist*

          I have had *some* luck looking up people (strangers) on LinkedIn in fields or jobs I’m interested in and sending them an invitation, explaining that I’m looking to branch into their field, etc. Sometimes they reply and accept the request; sometimes not.

          If they accept the LinkedIn request, I try to arrange an informational interview. A lot of times, I don’t hear from them again. Or sometimes they’ll say they can meet, but they may or may not be responsive to actually set up the meeting. However, once in a while, you’ll stumble upon a good soul who is willing to sit down with a relative stranger for 20 – 30 minutes. I will say that I’ve often gotten some good insights from these meetings, but sadly no actual job leads down the road.

          It’s worth a shot, though. At least I’ve been able to build up the number of contacts I have on LinkedIn, which in and of itself seems like a good thing.

    2. SanDiegoSmith82*

      This was me last year. The fruitless part- I am “midlevel” career wise for my industry and I was at that hard to place point where I wasn’t able to make top dollar, but I was worth more than what most people wanted to pay me in that area of my state. I had tons of great interviews, and an offer or two, but none of them wanted to pay me what I’d heard and seen others were making. So, since I had nothing holding me to that area, and threw caution to the wind and started applying in an area that required full relocation. Found an opening at the company of my “dreams”, got the interview (I had a vacation planned to the neighborhood, so it worked out that way) and while it took about 4 months from start to finish, I landed the job.

      You just have to stay the course.

      1. MMM*

        Yes, unfortunately continuing to just trudge along with my search seems to be the plan for the immediate future. It’s going on month 6 and while I have managed a decent number of phone/in person interviews, they end up going with a more qualified candidate (which I understand their reasoning, but still extremely frustrating)

    3. nep*

      Sorry you’re having to deal with this. As others have said, it’s just about staying the course.
      I have often wondered the same thing — Is there some secret everyone is in on but me? Truly it feels that way sometimes.
      Not great consolation, but it’s certainly good that you’re getting to the stage of phone and in-person interviews. (I’m still holding out for a phone screen…)
      Hang in there. Let us know how it goes.

  96. anon for this*

    I work in a manufacturing company as an accountant/hr department. we have weekly manager meetings where everyone talks about whats going on. The sales guys talk about sales, production guys talk about production etc. All very measurable deliverables. I? I have no idea what to say. That we processed 100 invoices and paid our vendors? That payroll went off again without a hitch? THat we added 2 new employees and got them all set up without problems?

    How the heck do I contribute meanigful information to these meetings?

    1. Amber Rose*

      We have the same thing at the same kind of company, and some updates are pretty sparse, and that’s OK. Even the sales guys sometimes only say, “Well, we’re busy.”

      I don’t think you need to get too hung up on meaningful information. I pretty much always say the same thing every week: All is well, pretty quiet in my area, show up to the meeting tomorrow or I’ll hunt you down.

    2. Natalie*

      Sure, those things sound fine. You don’t even need to say “without problems” if the point of the meetings is just to update people on different departments’ activities. So maybe your updates are “everything is going smoothly. We added 2 employees. Open enrollment is next month so [blah blah blah].” Or if there’s anything people could do to make your job smoother this is a good time to mention it.

    3. KatiePie*

      The plight of every accounting department (that has to interact in meetings like this). Agree with “anon for this”. Often there is news on the HR front like open enrollment or “make sure people nearing their vacation limits start to use it so they don’t top out.” Or on the accounting end, “Please make sure there are two signatures on all purchase orders. Lately we’ve been getting a lot with one.” Etc.

  97. Lizabeth*

    Another FU to the company being bought and our health insurance in the transition…CFO of the other company meet with our company yesterday and our insurance broker. They came to the agreement that it was cheaper to continue with our health insurance until the end of June when it ends it’s year. Plus found out that the new company doesn’t have a lot of people, hence the stipend because it was cheaper for them to do that rather than a group plan. So there’s the possibility we may not have to the stipend route in June because they might roll into our insurance group instead. Keep your fingers crossed. It’s going to be an interesting couple of months.

  98. paul*

    This may be naive but dang I’m out of practice job hunting; 11 years in one employer, several lateral moves and a promotion with them but no real job hunting.

    What should I research about a company prior to an interview? I figure read their website, glassdoor if it’s big enough to have one…990s if it’s a non profit? Google news stories? How do you separate what’s relevant and not for bigger employers though?

    1. Snark*

      Yeah, I’ve been here for five years, worked two federal jobs before that, and my hiring process for this job was not typical to say the least…..so I honestly feel like job hunting is a skill I need to reacquire.

      1. paul*

        At least you’re not still with the feds…any level of F&W or EPA or DoI or BLM is looking nasty :/ I’ve got a lot of friends that are not so low key panicking right now since they either work for those agencies or in positions that depend on grants from those agencies.

        FFS, funding for my program ultimately trickles down from HHSC; I’m nervous as hell.

        1. Snark*

          Honestly, I would be too. And yes, working for EPA or any of the resource management agencies is hellish right now.

        2. fposte*

          My brother took a pay cut to move from fed to state at the same university to get away from the instability.

        3. Overeducated*

          Sadly, I’m trying to get into one of those. It’s all relative to where you’re coming from.

    2. CM*

      I consider myself pretty great at researching and I think you’ve got it covered. Company website — know what their main products/services are, basic facts like how big they are and how long they’ve been around, how they are organized, who their market is, who’s running the company, what their main values/concerns appear to be, and what they are currently focused on. Guidestar for 990s if it’s a non-profit, SEC filings if it’s a public company. Google news and Google in general, see what other people are saying and what the company has been doing lately. See if you can answer the questions “What is my role in this company, where do I fit in, why might they need me, and what can I contribute” and then you can test out your answers in the interview by saying things like, “While researching the company, I noticed you’re launching a new initiative in X, which seems related to this role. Is that something that the person in this position would be working on?”

      1. Tara*

        ^this. Also, my rookie mistake when I did my first interviews: have a GOOD answer for why you’re interested in this role at THIS company. Why do you like THEM?

        1. paul*

          “Because money is good.” Yeah I know, bad answer. That question’s generally a struggle for me tbh.

  99. Roseberries*

    My boss, earlier this week: “all women are bitches”. He’s making it harder not to join my co-workers’ complaint sessions about him

    4. Snark*

      But he’s making it very easy to report him to HR or his boss, and I encourage you to take the path of least resistance.

      1. Aurion*

        +1

        Why make life harder for yourself, OP?

        PS: Snark, love your comments, they’re a highlight of my day.

    5. Roseberries*

      He did say it jokingly in response to someone else, but at the same time, it wasn’t appropriate or funny (not that any of his jokes are: I think he sees himself as a bit of an insult comic)

      2. beanie beans*

        A huge percentage of sexism in the workplace is done jokingly or “as a compliment” which does not make it any more appropriate or ok.

    6. Earthwalker*

      If you’re not comfortable taking that to HR for fear they’ll accuse you of making a mountain out of a molehill, document it with the date and time so you have the option of taking a stack of such events to HR later to demonstrate a trend.

  101. The Tin Man*

    Impostor syndrome maybe?

    I had my annual performance review this week! Turns out people from other departments have spoken very highly of me and my work to my boss and great-grandboss (grandboss didn’t come up). My boss said that he has “zero complaints” and didn’t really have an answer of anything he’d like me to do better. It felt a little wrong because I know I have some weak points. I think I am just struggling with the difference between “I have no complaints and other people have said you’ve been very helpful” and speaking highly of me himself. And does that mean I met expectations or exceeded them?

    The review did not have much “This is what you were tasked with over 2017 and this is how you did” and we talked a lot more about things I’d like to do in 2018.

    I also only realized after that we didn’t even talk about a salary increase.

    1. designbot*

      Meeting expectations = no complaints.
      Exceeding expectations = earning unprompted praise.
      You exceed expectations! Ask for your raise.

  102. Lily*

    Would you find it weird if a co-worker (who had a cold) came into work wearing one of those face masks (kind of like surgical masks)?

    For what it’s worth those masks are worn as a courtesy to stop germs spreading, but I understand that in cultures where it’s not commonly done people may be weirded out a bit.

    2. Amber Rose*

      Yeah, but there’s different flavors of weird. I’ve been wearing sunglasses indoors intermittently all week, and I get a couple funny looks but for the most part it’s not like it’s making people avoid me or affecting work in any way.

      Although, its questionable how much those masks actually do to prevent germs spreading. They can’t even stop you from inhaling smoke or fine dust. So you might get some pushback from opinionated people.

      1. fposte*

        They’re actually pretty good at keeping droplet-borne illnesses spreading from the user; they’re less good at protecting the user and at preventing other kinds of contagion.

    4. beanie beans*

      I had a coworker who wore one for a while when she was going through chemo. A lot of people wear them not to prevent spreading their own disease but to prevent catching other people’s.

      It’s a little weird, but I think if it’s explained people would be understanding.

    5. Overeducated*

      Not really, it’s not common in the dominant culture here but I have seen people do it and would respect it.

    7. Blue Eagle*

      I would much rather that the co-worker wear a mask and not spread germs than not wear one when there is a possibility of contagiousness.

  103. GhostCat*

    It’s GhostCat again with another tale from the brewery!

    I don’t know if this is better suited for the Open Thread portion since it deals with family drama, but it is work-related. TLDR – Are children obligated to work the family business?

    I am an early 30’s full-time IT professional by trade, a former Graphics Designer, and an art hobbyist. I intentionally live over an hour from my hometown to get enough distance between my toxic family and live completely independent from them. When my family decided to build the brewery they asked me to design the logo, website, promotional media, bottle/cans, etc. for the business – essentially the total branding package. I declined because it is a lot of work for one person to do on the side and coupled with a stressful job and taking care of a home and relationship I wouldn’t be able to finish everything they needed in a timely matter. They quoted out several thousand dollars (I think somewhere in the range of $10,000 for the whole package) with some branding company then presented me with the quote in an effort to twist my arm so I would do it. Eventually I caved and I did it and was not offered any compensation nor did I ask for any. I was okay with doing everything for my family for free (really for my father who is a wonderful man) but the rest of the family became abusive when things were not done overnight or if it took me a few weeks to churn out logo ideas or mock websites which routinely had to be scrapped and started over. They did not value my time or my skills and would tell me I was lazy when I did not meet their deadlines, but eventually after much stress I completed all of the projects and they were happy with it.

    Last weekend I drove up to visit with the family and help my father brew beer and run maintenance on their computer systems. I found that my mother has not been holding her employees accountable with accurate clock-in/clock-out and would pay them for the correct hours but not update it in her system so the employee would have 100-some hours logged for two weeks. When I found this out I told her that it may be a good idea to have the employee correct their time in the system just in case there was an audit. We constantly get audited at my work and I explained that it could trigger more questions and a deeper look at things if something is found in the system that looks “off”. She completely lost her mind, screaming and yelling and telling me how much stress she has on her shoulders and how nobody does anything to ever help her, and how she’s taking care of a house and a business and 3 extended family members living in her home (all true – also my 29 yr. old sister lives there for free and gets paid $16/hr plus overtime to work the business plus paid for car and cellphone), and how all I do is take from her and I never come there to help. She said the least I could do is come up on the weekends and wash dishes at the restaurant or clean her house. The only thing I really take from the business is a couple chicken wings when I come up once or twice a month on the weekends – both of my sisters and their families eat several meals a week for free. I know better than to respond to her when she goes on her tirades so my partner told me that it was time to go. We packed our things and my mother refused to say goodbye to me on the way out the door. I still haven’t spoken with her.

    The entire drive I felt guilty about living my own life and wondered if she was right, and if I needed to drive up on my weekends and work the business. The situation sounds like insanity while typing this out but after spending my whole life in a toxic environment it’s hard to remove the chains of her narcissism, toxicity, and martyr complex.

    Readers, do you think that a child is obligated to “help out” with the family business for the rest of their life?

    1. Reba*

      Nope! I know it is absolutely not so simple, but consider whether you could have even less involvement in your family’s business going forward.

      If asked, you could say you have a new rule about keeping family and work separated. Or depending on how salty and/or honest you feel, you could cheerfully say that when you work for them, you get yelled at so it’s better for all if you don’t!

      There are a lot of pieces on Captain Awkward about dealing with manipulative/”but we’re family” relationships.

      Good luck Ghostcat!

      1. GhostCat*

        Thank you Reba!

        I’d love to separate work and family. They see my skills as a tool that they can use whenever they want and there are absolutely no boundaries. They think this is normal and down-play any emotions or feelings that do not align with their own.

        1. Oranges*

          Yeppers! Boundaries only exist for them not you = not okay. You have a right to a life. Heck, my mom and dad would be sad but thrilled if I said “no, I can’t help you right now because I’m too busy living my own life”. They wouldn’t want me to cripple myself for them. They want me to be free to fly.

          Your parents chose to have you, to have the responsibility of a child. There is no “re-payment” for that; there can be gratitude and love but this is not a tit for tat transaction you entered into when sperm met egg.

    2. Pollygrammer*

      You are definitely not obligated! I’d stop accepting chicken wings, honestly, and tell her you love your family and BECAUSE of that love you don’t want to maintain a business relationship that harms your relationships more than it helps them. I have a guilt-trip family myself, and I know how hard it is, and how much they can bend your perceptions of fairness and reasonability.

      Lots of other graphic/web designers out there, and probably plenty who would be willing to give discounts in exchange for free drinks.

    4. RedBlueGreenYellow*

      My family also owns a business that does not employ me. (I have my own career that I like perfectly well.) On those rare occasions where I’ve been asked to help with the family business, 1) we have agreed on scope, 2) we have agreed on payment, and, when I could not help, 3) they took “no” for an answer.

      To give an idea of how much I’ve been asked to help out, it’s about 4 times in 10 years. 3 of those, I was able to say yes to (in part, because there were no negative consequences to saying no the other time).

      1. RedBlueGreenYellow*

        (In other words, I agree that you are not obligated to help out. And if you want to help, you are 100% reasonable to do it on your own terms.)

    5. LilySparrow*

      No.
      If your parents were destitute or incapable of caring for themselves, I think you’d have some moral obligation to try to provide what help you were capable of without jeapordizing your own wellbeing or your nuclear family. Perhaps by making arrangements from a distance, for example.

      You have zero obligation to prop up their business interests with unpaid labor, or serve as a punching bag for their unreasonable demands.

      It was honest, considerate, and helpful of you to try to make sure the business was doing right by the employees and wouldn’t get audited. Your mom made it very clear that she does not want that kind of help. Consider her silent treatment as time off for good behavior. Enjoy it!

    6. Thlayli*

      your mother is being unreasonable. You are not the problem. Your mother is the problem.
      You did $10,000 worth of work for free, yet she claims you don’t do anything. She is wrong, you are in the right.

    7. NoTurnover*

      Sounds like you are involved against your better judgement. Listen to your judgement and be 0% involved. No advice, no graphic design, no taking chicken wings (not that you are at all obligated to help out for some stupid chicken wings, but it gives the crazy leverage), and ideally no brewing with your dad, either, even though he is the sane one. (Though I note he doesn’t seem to defend you against the crazy.)

      Read the entire Captain Awkward and r/raisedbynarcissists archives if you haven’t already.

  104. Salary requests / negotiating*

    Every wanted to target a salary, but when you are on the phone with a recruiter, you choke and ask for something less?

    That just happened to me. I’d still be happy with the salary I asked for, but I think I can do higher….

    Also, I am curious about how/if gender plays a role in this…. If you could share that too….

    Help give me the confidence boost I need to ask for what I am worth!

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      I know my number, and I write it down on a pad of paper ahead of time so if/when the question comes up, I can first ask what their target range is and then proceed from there. That way I can either raise my number a tad (ideal) or…whatever. Worst case, I can’t choke because I can just glance down and my numbers are sitting there and I can just read back to the recruiter.

      I’m sure you can speak to the recruiter again if/when salary comes up and negotiate from there.

  105. Arils*

    Before it becomes June 2018, I wanted to write down my 2017 Self-Evaluation/Accomplishments. Truthfully, I should have done this all of 2017, but I didn’t and here we are.

    How do you categorize your accomplishments/milestones? I’m a worker bee, but want to move up from an analyst 2 to 3 (government worker here).

    So far I have:
    Presentations – I speak at a few conferences and give presentations to various groups throughout the year so I was going to list those
    Quantifiable items – I enrolled X providers/Y vendors in 2017

    I will keep track all of 2018, conflabbit!

    1. Princess Scrivener*

      Arils, can you go back through your 2017 calendar? That always jogs my memory at self-review time. In addition, our company has a list of competencies (e.g., “strategic planning”), and I pick out a few of those that match my strengths, and give examples.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      I match mine to the points in my job description (which is accurate / my objectives are based on it). I also find my calendar useful for this.

  106. T3k*

    So with all the crazy winter weather, I wanted to know if I should be concerned about this. I live in an area where we don’t get a lot of snow so when it does hit we’re not well prepared and what happens is some of it will melt, but then freezes overnight. Due to freak events, we lost power and couldn’t get out off our street, and the next day our street’s road/hill was covered in ice. By this point, I’ve missed about 5 work days this year already due to snow/ice. I’m a short term contractor, but I’m worried if this will look bad on me as many others who live closer to work can get in but I still can’t. I do try to keep my boss informed when this happens but is there anything else I can do?

    1. WellRed*

      I think all you ca do is be clear about the specifics (90 degree angle hill coated in ice) that prevents YOU from making it into the office.

  107. Buffy Summers*

    Legality question: we have two types of full-time employees here. Full time 12 month and full time 10 month. The 10 month employees are off during the summer and collect unemployment. During the 10 months they’re employed, though, we withhold extra from their paychecks so they can continue to pay for insurance during the months they’re out.
    I just read somewhere about deductions not making employee’s wages fall below minimum and wondered if that applied here because some of those employees are low wage employees and it could very well cause their wages to go below minimum.
    Also, I’m kind of wondering about the legality of the whole situation. Any thoughts on it?

    1. LF*

      If this were a more general question, I might be inclined to chime in with a general opinion, but I think this is something you should consult with an employment attorney about since it’s a very specific fact pattern and may require specific analysis under your state’s laws.

    2. Natalie*

      I don’t believe the rule about deductions applies to *voluntary* deductions (like health insurance). But LF is right that your company should probably consult with an employment attorney.

  108. Job Searching in Jacksonville*

    So how important is meeting the minimum job requirements before applying for a job? I have the degree and three years of experience, but they have listed a minimum requirement of the degree and 5 years of experience? This is for an administrative position in the communications office for a reputable private university if that helps provide context.

    1. Pollygrammer*

      I’d say go ahead and apply! There may not be anybody else with the 5 years who even remotely approaches you in general talent.

      Can you say “3 years AND” or “3 years BUT” and cite other experience, other skill, particular honors in your degree program, or anything else that could also be a bonus for them?

      1. Job Searching in Jacksonville*

        I might be able to say that I have three years experience in (Relevant Field) and 2 more years experience working with (Relevant Program) as well as proven track record working with social media and provide stats of friends small business who I have created social media strategies for. Does that sound reasonable and like something I could put in my cover letter?

        1. Pollygrammer*

          I think so! Stats and hard numbers are maybe a little tricky in a cover letter though–you want to balance pertinent information against looking like you’re trying to hard to stretch your relevant qualifications. Does anyone else have a thought?

    3. Elizabeth H.*

      Short answer: not important. At all. The years of experience is just a guideline. Don’t mention the discrepancy between your 3 years and what they wrote in the description, just highlight your strengths as normal. (especially if you are female – women tend to be less likely to apply to jobs they don’t meet minimum requirements for than men)

      1. Job Searching in Jacksonville*

        I am female and have read an article about this. I am trying to apply to positions I don’t quite have all the skills for, but it’s hard knowing where the line of appropriate to apply or not is as I’m so new in the working world.

        1. Tara*

          My interpretation:
          1-3 years experience requested: any experience at all.
          3-5 years experience requested: have some actual experience in this role, probably at least 2 years
          5-10 years: ok, you’ve actually got to have real experience doing this, we want an expert/semi-expert.

          So heck yeah, apply!

        2. Elizabeth H.*

          In doubt, go for it! My mom is a professor & advisor who teaches a professional seminar for the master’s students in her field – that is one piece of advice she always gives her students and also me – apply to a job even if you meet most of the qualifications. Three vs five is quite arbitrary anyway – it’s a proxy for someone’s experience and skill, but willingness and ability to learn quickly on the job usually make a bigger difference than simple years in the same field. With your above comment on relevant program plus your social media experience, yes definitely put that in your cover letter. And again I’d avoid presenting it as if it compensates for a deficiency, rather that it enhances overall what you could bring. (Unless some qualification is stressed *so* strongly in a job description that you feel it would seem strange or oblivious not to address why you think you’d be a good fit despite the discrepancy, my personal feeling is it’s better to focus on presenting a confident image of how you feel you could contribute to their organization in the role – others may have different opinion but that’s my take. I don’t think 5 vs 3 years of experience in the field meets that standard)

    4. Thlayli*

      Go ahead and apply. They may get 5 people who meet all the requirements and you won’t get an interview, or they may get fewer and you have a chance!

  109. EJ*

    I’m interested to hear people thoughts on this – what’s the protocol for catching up people up who are late to a meeting? Or do you catch them up at all? We have a few chronic “stragglers” to some of our meetings and time gets wasted having to back track on things we’ve already covered.
    Let’s discuss.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      Since you’ve described them as chronic, I feel like back tracking to explain what they’ve missed is enabling their behavior. If someone has a legitimate reason for being late, that’s a different story, or if they ask afterwards what they’ve missed and take the initiative to find out themselves. But don’t enable them to continue being late since you’ve now essentially told the others in the meeting that their time isn’t valuable.

      1. anonynony*

        +1 to this. I’m currently making an effort to start meetings on time and just expect those who’ve agreed to be there to be there, making an exception only for the partner level. Don’t spend everybody’s time to rehash the same things you’ve just said, make them spend their own time to find out.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      If they are chronic late-comers, then I ignore them. If they ask to be filled in, I say that I’ll fill them in after the meeting/during a break or that I’ll send them the slides. I’ll say that we have too much to cover and we don’t have time to backtrack.

    4. Squeeble*

      Part of it depends on the person–if they are way high up on the hierarchy or an important part of whatever you’re talking about, give them a brief summary. Otherwise, keep going like nothing has happened.

    5. Blue Eagle*

      This is one of my huge pet peeves. I say don’t catch them up at the time – – tell them you can stay a bit after to catch them up on anything they missed at the start. The more you reward people who are late, the more you disrespect the people who actually show up on time.

    6. Thlayli*

      Just hand them an agenda and explain we’re on point 3. It’s reasonable for them to ask a specific question about point 3 but don’t offfer it. if they try to drag you back to points 1 or 2 just tell them you’ve already covered that, but if you have time at the end you can cycle back. And then send out minutes after.

      1. EJ*

        All good points! Thank you for the discussion. For some background, these folks aren’t high up on the hierarchy – same level as me. One of them breezes in late with Starbucks (maybe that’s what making them late?) and mutters a “Sorry” and the other one comes in and mutters a quick apology and a line about “traffic”. I understand that things happen, but this keeps happening for a standing meeting that’s been scheduled in advance so it’s getting frustrating.

  110. Gandalf the Nude*

    I’ve got Solver running a particularly time-consuming problem and can’t move forward in the meantime, so hey, y’all. What Excel add-ins make your job easier?

    1. BTDT2*

      Litera Change-Pro for Excel, should have bought it a year ago. It’s amazing to have redlined spreadsheets.

  111. LurkingAlong*

    Hi Everyone,

    First time posting on one of these open threads so hope I’m not posting to a void. I’m looking for recommendations on books, courses and resources for someone seeking a position focused on data. Mainly, advisory companies that work with organizations in data analysis with large data sets (big data) and/or data applications within financial services. I have a very strong quantitative background (computer science degree, two quant heavy Masters) so I’m not looking for layman’s resources. What I am looking into is a career shift after being in a career/job that has been lucrative but where I feel my skills have stagnated for the past few years. I have been out of school for a while and my work although initially promised to be heavily analytical and quantitative has not been as I had hoped in building those skills.

    I would appreciate any recommendations particularly from those who work in data science fields!

    1. artgirl*

      you might want to look at risk analysis, which has multi-sector applications (not just financial but also health, environmental…)

      1. LurkingAlong*

        Do you mean actuarial science? I did look into that as a possibility but I realized that’s not really for me. I have a close friend who is an actuary who I discussed this with and he helped me out with the decision.

          1. LurkingAlong*

            Oh, now I see what you mean! I used to do this type of risk assessment in my work and was the primary “expert” in my department on this. I covered a few industries/fields so had to sometimes expand my knowledge in that area fairly quickly. I didn’t realize it was its own field of study. We considered it a subset of economic analysis (of projects and industries). Thank you for the link and explanation! I’ll definitely take a look at their courses/events.

    2. Student*

      Statistics. You can be great at quantitative work and still not know squat about statistics, but statistics is the only way to know whether your data really means what you think it means.

      Resources – US Guide to the Expression of Uncertainty in Measurement.

      Also, look into how to present data, not just how to analyze it. Analyzing it is only about half the battle – then you have to be able to explain to a decision-maker who doesn’t have more than 5 minutes for you why your data matters. There’s some excellent books on data presentation, and a whole sub-specialty of plotting “big data”. There are a lot of traps one can either deliberately use to present data in a misleading way, or accidentally use without knowing why they are misleading.

      2. LurkingAlong*

        Actually, statistics is my strongest area and where I have had the most success both in school and in my career. It is also very much a natural interest of mine since I was young. I have mainly relied on the work of Hans Rosling for presentation of data because his work was very close to my field but I am definitely getting more in-depth now that I am searching for a new career!

  112. Pseudonomnomnom*

    The good: I moved into a private office for the first time ever on Wednesday! I have a door! I can turn the volume down to 0 for the radio they pump in through the ceiling! I can’t hear the office whistler any more! This is following on the heels of me getting promoted at my 1-year review in December. I’m also getting plenty of development opportunities, including going to a big conference in April along with my boss and a couple high level execs.

    The not as good: My boss let me know that one of my co-workers is apparently upset about me getting an office. This person is significantly older than me and has been with the company for a decade compared to my one year, but we have very different titles and responsibilities. My coworker hasn’t said anything to me about it, and I haven’t noticed a big attitude change or anything.

    Besides trying to be the usual amount of friendly and doing my job well, is there anything I should do here to try to smooth things over? I’m already trying not to make a big deal of either the promotion or the office.

    1. selina kyle*

      Just keep being friendly and doing your job well! It seems like if the co-worker isn’t making a fuss there’s no real issue if they’re privately a bit peeved. For what it’s wroth, it might help you to remember that their frustration is likely with themselves or the company – definitely not actually with you :)

    2. Pollygrammer*

      I don’t think your boss should have shared that, unless it was in a context of watch out for the cold shoulder for a while (which boss should be making sure doesn’t happen, because it’s unprofessional.)

      It isn’t your job to smooth things over, and after 10 years she should be used to people getting promoted past her.

      1. Margery*

        I agree with Pollygrammar – no idea why your boss informed you about this. Just keep being friendly but you don’t have to ingratiate yourself to the co-worker. They’ll get used to it – congratulations!

  113. GhostCat*

    In other news, two of my co-workers just dropped to the floor in our shared office and did push-ups complete with grunting, and hand-clapping.

    What is my life? Is this normal??

    1. Kitten*

      Wow! Is it just the two of you in the office?

      I’ve definitely done pushups in the office when working late just to keep me awake and give my brain a bit of recalibration, but only when I could hide out somewhere where no-one could see me (deserted corridors usually). So I think you can safely class this as ‘not normal’.

      (Although, is your office cold? I do pushups in my house when it’s cold… not sure I’d do that in the office though, still weird).

    2. paul*

      Not normal but maybe something’s going on? This is one of those “one offs can be one offs” and god knows I’ve seen goofy stuff on Fridays when it’s slow…

    3. Kuododi*

      Oh…back in my younger more….”flexible” days I was heavily involved in martial arts training. At the mental health clinic where I worked… I would frequently take my lunch break and practice kata and weapons in an empty conference room. Apparently everyone knew about it as people would wander past and come in to watch for a few. Just one of those eccentric things that happens….

    4. Chaordic One*

      Back at bad old job, every hour on the hour, they would stop and do Burpee’s. It was really annoying when you were on the phone with a client.

  114. GPA*

    My sister is currently applying to internships and due to health issues that are now under control has a pretty mediocre GPA. Is that something she should address in her cover letter? Her GPA is not at all reflective of her knowledge or skill level, but I’m not sure if that’s something she should address up front, or if that just draws attention to a negative.

    1. Buffy*

      I’ve heard of the convention of not including your GPA on a resume or cover letter unless it is atleast a 3.0. Can she get away with not including it or are employers asking up front?

      1. GPA*

        She can’t, they ask for a transcript. Since they are bound to see the low number I’m wondering if it’s worth addressing head on or just hoping she’s strong enough otherwise and only bringing it up if she’s directly asked about it.

        1. Tara*

          Don’t give GPA if not required. If it is, a note about it in the cover letter would not go amiss. Would be great if she can add a sort of “testimonial” from one of her professors/bosses about her work. That said, some internships have arbitrary GPA cutoffs as a way to just swim through the number of applications. Best of luck to her.

    2. designbot*

      Why would her GPA even be an issue? Putting a GPA on a resume is one of those things that my parents told me to do but everyone in my actual working life laughs at.

      1. Kuododi*

        I have had to do my fair share of clinical internships both as a part of training and after. I didn’t hit my “academic stride” until my second Master’s degree but never had to provide GPA as a condition of acceptance to internships. I have had to provide transcript for a couple of applications. Mainly academic positions such as therapist at a university counseling CTR. NBD. They were able to look at my transcripts and see my grades in my counseling/mental health courses met their standards. My second Master’s strictly in counseling missed a 4.0 by 2 courses so there were no issues on that degree.

  115. CleverGirl*

    My office is so cold and typing makes my hands extra cold. I’m about to do to the restroom so I can run hot water over them for 5 minutes and try to get some feeling back in them. :(

    1. Arils*

      I feel you, (Clever)Girl! I’ve had to do this almost every day for the last two years. I have tried a little space heater, but the warm water is better IMO and helps me get out of my seat. Otherwise I just sit here for hours :(

    2. Pollygrammer*

      Fingerless gloves? One of those USB coffee warmer things so you can keep a mug of warm beverage (even water) to cup your hands against?

    3. beanie beans*

      Ugh I’m cold all the time! I have a rice sock that I like to microwave and either put in my lap or around my neck.

      In the post yesterday about what office supplies people love there was a ton of great tips for cold people – I learned about heated mice!

  116. It's all Fun and Dev*

    I think I’m in a case of bad “culture fit” with my new job. I moved across the country for this position, and I’ve been here just over 7 months. I love the work itself and I like my team, but I find myself increasingly unhappy with the organization. It’s a HUGE public university, my department is massive (like, 150 people who do exactly what I do), and incredibly bureaucratic. I’m in an outward facing role and I honestly don’t feel empowered to do what I need to do to take care of my “clients”, and I feel like I’m just a number rather than part of a team. Another big factor is that I hate the town I moved to – it’s small and isolated, and there’s definitely a culture of “insider vs. outsider”. My fiancé and I have been here 7 months and neither of us has made a single friend, and there’s not a lot for young, childless people like us to do around here. I’ve been contributing at a high level, but I feel myself starting to get burnt out/disengaged because I’m unhappy and there’s no way for me to “recharge” outside of work.

    I’ve started a job search, and know I will quickly have multiple interviews lined up because of the career field I’m in. That said, I’m afraid of coming across as really flaky, non-committal, or selfish. I’m honestly not taking this early departure lightly – if it wasn’t for the fact that I’m underpaid by about $20-40k and that my fiancé has told me he’s unhappy in this town, I’d stay for at least another 6-12 months. I know I will need to be in my next role for 2-3 years so I’m being very cautious and selective in my applications, but how can I convince employers that I’m really in it for the long haul when I’m leaving a job so soon?

    1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      what’s your previous history? My resume looks like this: 6 years, 6 months, 4 years. I prefer to be places for a while, and typically only leave a company if there’s a darn good reason. I’m not job hopping.

      When I was interviewing after the 6 months job, I was honest. I’d moved across country, and it turned out that I’d misjudged the culture. Good people, good company, but I didn’t fit in. if they ask for more, many of my coworkers were the stereotypical “work hard party hard” that the industry has a rep for. I’m not a partier. My coworkers, while polite and professional, had no interest in engaging with me beyond work while everyone else was chatting away.

      1. It's all Fun and Dev*

        I was in my last role for over a year and a half, and the role before that was two years (different industry, though). Maybe it helps that shorter stays are typical in my field – I read that the average duration is only 18 months.

        I think it’ll help that I work for a well known university, and most of the jobs I’m applying to are in the same region. I’m sure people will know exactly what I’m referring to when I talk about the “culture” here…

        1. Tara*

          If the jobs you are applying to are in a different area, being honest about not fitting into the town might be ok (especially since it’s a smaller town), so long as you follow it up with why you’re excited about/are sure you’ll like the town Company X is in.

    2. OtterB*

      I think use what you say here – about not fitting in with the local culture, and about feeling like you’re a number in a huge team – to identify why you are excited about THEIR opportunity. Which automatically reduces concerns that you’ll make an early departure there also.

    3. LilySparrow*

      Your comment about not feeling empowered to take care of your clients as you should is interesting.
      I’d unpack that a bit, because that’s a type of frustration that actually speaks well of you as a good team member.

      There’s probably some concrete examples there to illustrate the bad fit, that aren’t about subjective feelings, or the town, etc.
      Those subjective feelings are valid, of course! But when you have something really specific about the role itself to discuss, it helps you feel less flaky. It can also help you really find a better fit.

  117. I'm A Little TeaPot*

    I’m working on a project with various coworkers in various locations, and the other one in my location is very inexperienced. I’ve got 10 years experience, she’s got 6 months with limited training. As such, she’s got a lot to learn. And it’s looking more and more like one of the things she needs to learn is how to chill a bit. I’ll be working with her extensively this year (work is project based, I’ll be leading multiple projects with her on them), so I’ll get to spend lots of time subtly encouraging her not to jump to conclusions, to listen better, and how to keep people in the loop when it impacts their work. Luckily, she seems like a nice person, bright, and cares about the work, so I don’t mind working with her. Its just going to be a little tiring.

    1. Almost Violet Miller*

      Good luck with the projects!
      Mentoring someone, even unofficially, can be really rewarding. I hope she turns out the way she seems and you two will work well together.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Don’t subtly encourage her. I think you can be more transparent – name the issues and explain that you’ll do your best to support but you also want her to reflect on and work towards them. If she doesn’t know these are problems she won’t know to prioritise improvement.

  118. Argh!*

    Sucking up to an opposite-sex boss vs. same-sex boss? I’m just curious. I wonder if sucking up to the boss with compliments and eagerness is part of the reason why men are more likely to be promoted. As a woman, I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that because I’d fear it would come across as flirtation. I have worked with a few men who have been shameless suck-ups, and they were promoted.

    Women, do you feel less comfortable sucking up than the men you’ve worked with?

    1. Penny*

      Women aren’t going to assume another woman is hitting on them because you’re being nice to them. That’s weird.

      As a woman I actually feel more comfortable with female superiors.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I don’t think anyone should ever suck up to their boss. You should perform your job well.

    3. Tara*

      This is so tricky. As a woman, I try to be a lot more careful with male bosses. Eagerness is just who I am, so I am not as worried about using that, but I definitely think through compliments carefully. There’s plenty of times where the world is the world and you can’t do anything about how others gossip. But for the most part, so long as I’m physically distant (ample space between us during meetings, open-door as much as possible) I don’t worry about the being verbally effusive part so much.

      Looking at what I just wrote, I realize now that I actually do the same with female bosses, I just don’t over-analyze it as much! Huh.

    4. Former Retail Manager*

      My own personal belief is that men are promoted more frequently because men tend to have more confidence than women, generally speaking, and do a better job of advocating for themselves than women, even when their own assessment of their performance isn’t necessarily accurate. I am female, and I have done it myself…..second guessed my own abilities and proficiency at a job and talked myself out of believing that I deserved a promotion to the extent that I didn’t even apply. Needless to say, I was disheartened to see work of males (and females for that matter) who got the promotion (there were multiple promotions available for the same position) and do work that is not at the same level as mine.

      As for sucking up, I personally tend to GREATLY prefer male supervisors over female and I tend to be friendlier with them, which can be perceived as sucking up by some. I’ve never been concerned about being perceived as flirtatious, mostly because I’m married and all of our convos are open door convos where various people can hear us and are about safe topics, when discussing non-work stuff.

    5. Thlayli*

      I wouldn’t say I’ve ever sucked up to any boss male or female. I’ve mostly had male bosses and have had a good relationship with almost all of them. Part of work is maintaining a good relationship with your boss which might mean biting your tongue more than you would with a coworker but not sure id call it “sucking up”.

      Maybe observe what the people successful in obtaining promotions are doing. Is it possible they’re being friendly and polite and biting their tongue when boss says something they disagree with, and you are just perceiving it as “sucking up”.

  119. DoctorateStrange*

    We had to get rid of an employee at my workplace because he harassed all the young women working there (including me.) It was a swift firing and all the women have started talking to one another and shared their stories. It was honestly chilling how much the situation reminded me of the Weinstein case. It was horrendous just how many of us were there that deal with him. I am relieved and I feel all the more loyal to my workplace for backing us up and being met with compassion by all the higher-ups.

    That said, I found out that another coworker commented that if the security guard had been “handsome, no one would have complained about being harassed.” This coworker is a woman. The harasser targeted all the women that are in their twenties to early thirties and I believe this coworker is outside that range and never had to deal with him (in fact, he made sure to target all of us when we were by ourselves.)

    My opinion of this coworker has dropped down. For one thing, a lot my colleagues had considered the harasser handsome before he revealed his true colors. This harasser could look movie-star beautiful or real-life ugly and that would still not affect what his actions had done.

    I don’t know if I should talk to her supervisor (we’re in different departments) but I am upset and disappointed at this mentality. I don’t know if I should email and say that, hey, maybe we should have a meeting to talking about the myths behind sexual harassment (i.e., it doesn’t matter if you found the perpetrator attractive, them harassing you is not okay, that victims are being “hysterical,” etc.)

    What are y’all’s thoughts? I don’t want this to escalate but I do not want anyone to continue to think like this after dealing what we had to deal with.

    1. fposte*

      I know feelings are running high there right now, but I wouldn’t try to make an office take action based on what you think somebody should think. She’s wrong, but it’s not the workplace’s job to change her view there.

      I would, however, calmly reject the notion if she ever says it to you. I also think it’s reasonable to suggest, in the wake of the event, that the office have a session led by an external professional about sexual harassment, but I wouldn’t push being on the same page or adopting any particular idea as the goal; it’s more that this has hit people hard and it’s good to have a chance to learn from it.

      2. DoctorateStrange*

        Thank you. I really needed to hear this. It’s been a week and I’m still trying to unlearn defenses I have had to put up dealing with this guy. I will definitely talk about having a session like that with supervisors.

          1. DoctorateStrange*

            Thanks for the link. I’m definitely going to post this on my own Facebook (w/o mentioning what happened at my workplace, of course!)

    2. Pollygrammer*

      I think your idea about a meeting–for everyone0–is a good one. I think a direct confrontation after the fact either by a supervisor, or really anyone (especially with 3rd-hand information) would be counterproductive.

      1. DoctorateStrange*

        You’re right. Thankfully, I don’t interact with her much, so I’ll be able to cool down before the next time I talk to her. I am definitely going to bring up the idea of having a session with my supervisors.

    3. Tara*

      It sucks, but I wouldn’t do much other than take note and adjust your view of her.

      That said, I know I’ve internalized a lot of shitty myths about stuff (concerning feminism, race, class, etc) that have taken a while to unlearn, and I’ve said stuff in the past I would shudder at now. I got lucky in that I was exposed to stuff that helped me realize that the assumptions I was making/was taught weren’t true, and have had a chance to unlearn that stuff. You’re not responsible for making anyone change their minds, but there will always be people who haven’t really looked at why they believe these kinds of things, and the best we can do is lead by example.

    4. Student*

      I do think you can directly tell the person you find their attitude toward you offensive when she expresses things like this. It’s pretty rude to tell somebody that they would’ve enjoyed being harassed if only the guy was taller/more symmetric/had different hair/whatever. You can say you expect attractive and unattractive people alike to treat you with a basic level of common respect and professionalism.

    5. Argh!*

      eh, I don’t get upset at off-hand comments. It may feel invalidating, but something like that wouldn’t ruin my day. If the person persisted, started calling everybody a snowflake or made a point of being pesky, then it’s a thing worth complaining about. At this point it’s just an insensitive comment from a lone individual. It doesn’t represent the workplace as a whole. It’s just a knee-jerk reaction at one moment in time by one person who may feel differently about it on Monday. I might take it up with her, but not the boss.

    6. The New Wanderer*

      A) objectively attractive but horrible people become ugly when they commit horrible actions. (See also, classically unattractive but nice people become attractive to those that love them.)

      B) if that coworker said something like that to me, I would have said, “ I suppose next you’ll ask me what I was wearing when he harassed me.” Because that’s how old school and wrong her thinking is. Gross.

      C) I don’t know if you (OP) should lead the charge but given the situation, your company probably should have a meeting to cover these things.

  120. Reaching References*

    I’m currently applying to internships, and I’m wondering how to handle an issue I’m having with references. Many applications ask to list references for them to contact, but due to the nature of my field many of my references travel frequiently to remote areas and are difficult if not impossible to reach. I have recommendation letters from them, would it be okay to ask them instead?
    Question part two, a lot of applications ask for the recommendation letter to be sent directly from the reference or ask that the reference fill out an additional form. How annoying is this for my references? Should I limit the amount of times I ask my reference for reference and if so is there a general number that’s considered acceptable?

    1. Pollygrammer*

      I say do everything you can to wait until you know you’re a finalist to ask your references about forms and letters and acknowledge that it’s a PITA for them and you really appreciate it. Reach out earlier to ask if it’s okay to provide their phone number/email and let them know you’ll do your best to make sure you give them a heads up if they should expect to be contacted.

    2. Tara*

      Most people who act as references understand that they are being asked to make a bit of effort, and that can include mailing/submitting letters themselves. I would do your best to make it easy for them – provide the links/directions/addresses they need to submit things. Also, send them thank you letters!

      If you really only have references that are periodically unavailable, (if they have agreed to be references) submit their information and note that they may be unavailable for a phone conversation, but you can offer a letter of recommendation instead. Have the letter ready to go, and try to have backups if the company wants someone they can actually talk to.

    3. Chaordic One*

      When I’ve had this problem, my references were very generous in making their email address and cell phone numbers available for use. Even so, they still didn’t have access to email or to cell phones all the time, but it did help.

  121. anonynony*

    So my company’s been doing a Lean In lunch group, and I’ve (surprisingly) found it’s negatively impacting my perception of the place. We watched a Ted talk where the author talked about mentally swapping genders of employees to make sure she was treating them fairly–so far so good, I thought of this for my direct reports and it seemed fine. But then I thought, huh, if the guy who’s one step superior to me (he’s both technically sort of my boss and sort of not, the hierarchy there is complicated–basically by one metric we’re peers but by another he’s above me), and the result of that really bugged. Because if a female leader was flighty, didn’t show up for meetings or showed up 30 minutes late, didn’t complete her staffing, didn’t tell anyone where she’d be, and the man one step below her did all her paperwork and kept the team running, I think people would notice. If one of them had to fight for months to get someone hired and the other just got whatever she wanted, I think people would wonder why.
    Has anyone here had any success bringing something like this up in the workplace? I’d love to hear stories and help figure out what might be done. For context, the partner we both report to is the one leading the Lean In group, but the company has a very strong culture where nobody goes against anyone personally ever, at all. I don’t hate the guy or anything, but I don’t think I would be allowed to behave the way he does, either, and am frustrated about being held to a higher standard with a lower title and presumably lower pay.

    1. Oranges*

      Can you… let things drop/stop covering for him?

      Figure out what you’d be doing if you didn’t have to cover this guy’s butt and then just… do that instead? You’d probably need buy-in from your grand-boss. Example: “A heads up: I’ve been letting x things slide in my own department because I’ve been pitching in on y for Boss. This isn’t tenable in the long run. How can I/From now on I need to start doing x because small problems become large ones.”

      1. Anony*

        I agree. It actually is possible that it is not a gendered thing and people don’t really notice who is doing the work so long as it gets done. So stop covering for him. If you do need to pick up the slack, make sure to bring it up to the partner you report to. If you are constantly doing part of his job, use that to advocate for a raise. It is very visible to you because you are the one dealing with it the most. It might not be nearly as visible to the partner.

        1. anonynony*

          I think people *think* they’re just being accepting of different personality types, but somehow the way that shakes out doesn’t allow for a woman to be a hot mess in the same way this guy and a few others are.
          You’re probably right that she doesn’t realize how much I do, and that’s a better way to approach the discussion. Instead of focusing on what he isn’t doing, I can just focus on, this is what I do here–I write proposals, do staffing for 5 people, write project plans, handle client meetings, interviews, supervise design and documentation, do all the administration for 12 projects at a time, etc. I am working above the level I’m billed at here, and deserve to be compensated. That should naturally raise the question of, well shouldn’t he be doing most of this stuff, why are you doing 5 people’s staffing not 3? Or not. Because if I’m compensated at a level for what I’m doing, it bothers me less that I have to do it.

  122. kracken*

    I missed the boat on the bad work advice from parents thread, but I just thought of one.

    This is one my grandma told my mom. She told my mom that if she wanted to be respected in her career she should never learn how to type. Obviously that’s terrible advice, but given my grandma’s experiences in the workplace it kind of makes sense.

    My grandma was a brilliant woman. She earned a Phd in computer science in the 1970s. She spent a large part of her career programming for a lab, and later became a professor at a local university. She was so well-respected in her field that Steve Jobs personally sent her a Macintosh with a special engraving (I saw it at her funeral).

    And yet because she was a woman, my grandma was expected to be the note-taker at every meeting (as well as make the coffee, order the lunches, other “women’s work” etc). She spent so much time typing up notes for men who weren’t even half as educated or intelligent as she was that she couldn’t contribute to meetings, and hit held her back. When she protested they pointed out that she was the only one who could take notes because she was the only one who knew how to type.

    It boggles my mind that there was a time when men weren’t expected to know how to type. And yet I encounter it still today in my career.

    1. Pollygrammer*

      I was asked to type something by a lateral peer! Because he’d seen how fast I can type. But…LATERAL. And dude had an assistant, which I pointed out to him.

    2. fposte*

      That wasn’t hugely uncommon advice in the 1970s and ’80s. As your description indicates in your post, it’s not necessarily bad advice; it’s just that it seriously stopped being true at all, and that it was more a defense against the horrible sexism of the work world than a positive way to improve your career.

      1. Reba*

        Someone did an interesting little twitter project a while back, finding and highlighting academic texts in which authors had thanked their wives for typing their manuscripts.

        Will dig a bit and see if I can find it.

        2. fposte*

          We used to joke about that in grad school. The only version of that I remember with any warmth is an author whose wife had been his adult literacy teacher and had basically taught him to read.

          1. Reba*

            Wow!

            It was amazing how many of the thanks for “typing” were actually acknowledgements for doing the unglamorous parts of research/translating arcane texts/being a silent coauthor.

    3. Tara*

      This sounds like a version of “if you never learn to make coffee, no one will ask you to make it” as a way to avoid sidelined from your actual job to attend to admin-ish tasks. Just like it’s a stereotype that the women in the meeting get asked to make the coffee, it might have been in your Grandma’s time that women were asked to type things up because that was seen as “a woman’s job”, i.e. lower-level work. Can’t do it if you don’t know how. AKA don’t learn how to be good at something you hate doing.

    4. Woman of a Certain Age*

      Back in the day, in the early to mid-1970s, the public high school I attended was considered “progressive” because they insisted that everyone (boys, as well as girls) take a year of typing in order to graduate. Can you believe it?

      We all had IBM Selectrics. The only exceptions that I know of were a student who was injured in a shop class accident and another one who a special education student who was being mainstreamed for most of his courses.

    5. Thlayli*

      When I started my PhD I read a book called “how to get a PhD”. It mentioned exactly this phenomenon and said that female PhD students were often expected to type up their supervisors notes and on some occasions even their male peers notes. The book recommended that female PhD students should never admit to being able to type.
      The advice was well outdated by then, but I found it very interesting.
      I have actually taken notes at many many meeting and I actually find being the minute taker to be a position of power within the meeting. It allows me to say things like “so what is The final decision” or whatever and basically lead the meeting in a lot of ways especially in the not uncommon event that the meeting “leader” is easily distracted and goes off on tangents. I learned how to do this from a guy who was excellent at taking minutes and was brilliant at leading meetings. I used to do the minutes for a weekly site meeting on a multibillion euro project and it was actually awesome. Tough, but awesome. I’m actually considering learning shorthand because I now work on a site where I don’t have a laptop and have to take notes by hand! Soooo time consuming.

      I’m sorry your mothers experience was so awful though, I can see that taking notes by hand would totally distract you from the meeting and typing it up after would just be a total waste of time.

    6. MassMatt*

      I knew a woman who worked in the legal field who kept her typing skills secret lest she be pestered to type everyone’s last-minute briefs etc. She would literally lock the door and draw the blinds. It sounded silly at first but then it sunk in just how demeaning the expectation would be that you are a typist instead of doing high-powered legal research and writing etc. This was not ancient history, it was the 90’s.

  123. Kira*

    Fellow anxiety sufferers, what are your favorite ways to cope with anxiety at work? I recently moved from a soul-sucking job to one with a much better environment, and while I’m so much happier the transition has still been anxiety-inducing. I don’t think I’ve really shaken off all the anxiety from the last job yet either. Right now I just feel incompetent and annoying, and I need to figure out some good self-care actions so I can actually do my best work.

    1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      I make tea. Usually a calming tea, but I’ll use whatever I have handy. It’s a small thing, but the act of getting up from my desk, opening the tea bags, wrapping the strings around the handle and pouring warm water over them (we have a coffee machine that makes the right temp water), and then focusing on not spilling it on the way back to me desk is enough to redirect my attention.

      If I can’t do that (or don’t want to) I rely on my hand anxiety breathing apps. I’m a big, big, BIG fan of SAMApp. I break it out whenever I can feel anxiety getting the best of me.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      I look at photos of puppies/kittens. Adoptable shelter animals are the cutest things ever. And by puppies/kittens I mean anything from 0-100 years. Also, walk the stairs, take the long walk to the restroom, realize I “forgot” something in my car. Send a text to a friend.

    3. Just Peachy*

      If it’s nice outside, I always benefit from taking a walk over my lunch break to clear my head.

      I had horrible anxiety and post-traumatic job disorder from my last job, and I’m sorry that you’re dealing with that. Know that it will get better with time!

    4. miyeritari*

      i like looking at the monterey bay acquarium shark cam. they have really soothing music and the water looks so calm.

    6. Ramona Flowers*

      I try to remember to do mindfulness-based stress reduction (I use YouTube videos) and do breathing exercises. Also, writing lists really calms me.

    7. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Ive got a playlist with special sounds that I find help me calm down/not notice something that is causing the anxiety to flare/focus/stop growing negative self talk or worry. Usually my “ocean” playlist does the trick. I am in the midst of an open office/office refurb ad between all the movement/noise/lack of desks/insanity putting on the playlist really helps.

  124. selina kyle*

    Just had to vent – there’s a conference room that I do scheduling for. No one has trained me on what is/isn’t available (i.e. Skype/calling into the room/etc) so I can’t answer questions on that which is frustrating. More frustrating is that a couple coworkers repeatedly ask me about it (as in “can it do X? well then, can it do Y?” when I try to explain that I haven’t been trained on it) even though I’ve repeatedly told them I don’t know.
    No advice please – we’re (hopefully) getting trained on it once things calm down a little but I just wanted to get my frustrations out here a bit.

  125. beer drinker*

    Quick question – I just accepted an exciting new job yesterday, awesome. It’s with county government and part of their required on-boarding procedure for all employees at all levels is a Drug and Alcohol Test. I’ve just never heard of mandatory alcohol testing before – what does it mean?? Alcohol is a legal, socially acceptable substance to imbibe in reasonable quantities. Are they just making sure you don’t show up actually drunk? Do I need to stop having a beer in the evening for the next month? (And yes, I’m far over the legal drinking age, and in the United States.)

    2. LCL*

      Here, drug and alcohol test means you will be asked to go to an approved medical place to give a urine sample, and alcohol is one of the drugs they will be testing for. Alcohol clears the body relatively fast, just don’t drink in the late evenings.

    3. beer drinker*

      Thanks LCL, that’s helpful! It’s weird that they test for alcohol at all, but c’est la vie.

    4. Can't Sit Still*

      Don’t show up drunk or with alcohol in your system. That’s all. The last job that required drug testing also required alcohol testing. They used a Breathalyzer for the alcohol test, and you needed to blow 0.0 to pass. They would follow up with a blood alcohol test if you failed the Breathalyzer, just in case it was a medical issue of some kind.

      There are a surprising number of functional alcoholics in the world who start the day off with a drink or two in order to function, and that’s who those tests are designed to find. Somebody who can’t stop drinking before a known, scheduled alcohol test has a problem with alcohol.

    5. Tara*

      This is standard for lots of big companies. I’ve had to do it for a post-office job, a University office job, and a office job at an electrical engineering firm (it was mandatory for the union electricians, so it was mandatory for office folk). As long as you don’t show up for the test drunk/drink the same day, won’t be an issue.
      Usually they’ll give you a list of approved locations, often they end up being urgent care clinics. The people there see it all the time, they’re used it. If you want more info on the experience, lmk.

      1. Kuododi*

        Heads up….don’t use an alcohol based mouthwash before the breathalyzer….it will blow a false positive….too many of my drug and alcohol clients got snagged by that little error….just check the ingredient label before purchase. Best wishes!!!!

    7. Thlayli*

      I’ve worked in industries where D&A testing was done – like pp said itsbjust checking if theres alcohol in your system right at the time of the test. Don’t show up to work drunk and you’ll be grand.

      This is usually aimed at keeping alcoholics out of jobs where alcoholism could lead to serious problems like people dying, but if you’re just working in an office it’s unusual, but maybe they have a company wide policy. That’s becoming more common too.

  126. Interim Manager*

    Anyone have any strategies for managing someone you actively dislike?

    This person’s boss retired, and in the interim he and his team report to me. He’s not great at his job, so I’m trying to focus on work issues exclusively. But his personality grates on me, too — he’s arrogant, manipulative, and has proven himself untrustworthy. I don’t have a poker face, so even meeting with him weekly is tough, because I have to focus very hard on not letting my face show my emotions.

    Looking for any tips, strategies, ideas for managing this person!

    1. CM*

      Manipulative/untrustworthy: try to limit what you say to him to unimpeachable facts and avoid situations where he could unfairly characterize what you say. Imagine that everything you say to him is going to be broadcasted to everybody, and double-check everything he says to you.

      Arrogant/unlikable: this may sound silly, but could you imagine him in another setting, like with his family? Do you have coworkers who are friendly with him personally? Maybe he’s really sweet to his cat, or volunteers at the food pantry, or once gave a tissue to a coworker who sneezed, anything that you could find to like about him so that he seems less odious in general.

    2. Student*

      You’re his manager, interim or not.

      If you are reasonably confident that these behaviors are making him difficult to work with, why don’t you just tell him that specific behaviors make his difficult to work with? Give him concrete examples of off-putting behavior, document what you’re doing clearly for his next manager (and possible disciplinary measured), and see if he shapes up/moderates/escalates. At minimum, his mannerisms are bad enough that you are having a difficult time doing your job with him, as his boss, and that alone is worth addressing. Just because his arrogance doesn’t impact his reports, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t negatively impact his work relationships.

      Stuff like, “When you are dismissive of my feedback, like when you said X, it’s off-putting and makes me less likely to give you feedback that you need. I am your boss, and while I’m fine with disagreement, it needs to be phrased less personally and you ultimately need to respect and follow my final decision even if you don’t agree.” is relevant and well within your current sphere of control.

    3. MassMatt*

      Try to find something likeable about him. Just about everyone has some sort of redeeming feature, or something they do well. Make it a goal to treat him fairly in each interaction and reward yourself for hitting your goal.

      Also, maybe use the interaction for your own growth. Very often something that annoys us about others is a trait we realize we have ourselves.

  127. Goya de la Mancha*

    Sharing computer knowledge with co-workers. Stance on this?

    IT is not my job, but it interests me, I know a lot about computers/programs and pick up things about them quickly. That being said, 95% of my knowledge is self taught. I put in the time and the effort to find ways to make my job more efficient. I know tips, tricks, processes that would make other co-workers jobs easier – but I resent the idea of sharing these things. I’m being childish aren’t I?

    1. Amber Rose*

      Just a bit. Not everyone finds it easy to self-teach, or has the creativity to find those tricks and processes. It’s a little unfair to hold your ability in this against those who don’t.

    2. Snark*

      Unfortunately…..yeah. Sorry. Having had literally hours, days, maybe months of my life returned to me by colleagues kindly telling me about things like Format Painter and various Excel tricks, I think it’s paying it forward to share some of that with others. Knowledge is most valuable when it’s moving.

    3. Just Peachy*

      If it would make your coworkers’ jobs easy, then yes, I think it’d absolutely be a good thing to share.

      I understand that you’re the one that has put the work into learning about these programs, so it feels like it’s “your stuff”, and not your coworkers. One thing I would suggest, however, is sending any tips/tricks to your coworkers in the form of an email with screenshots (and perhaps CC’ing your boss). That way, he/she will see the knowledge you possess, while also being appreciative that you’re sharing something helpful with your colleagues.

      1. Goya de la Mancha*

        I like the idea of emailing/cc’ing since I think part of my issue is the unfounded fear that I’ll put myself out of a job if I keep showing others how to do all the “good stuff”. I feel I deserve credit for the time that I took to teach myself (and others if I choose) how to do these things.

    4. Elizabeth H.*

      The more amazing thing to me is that you are apparently in a situation where you have an opportunity to pass on these efficiency tricks to coworkers, and coworkers who would be receptive and appreciative? Seize it!

      1. Goya de la Mancha*

        Not sure how receptive they would be and while I’m sure they would be appreciative at first – my lack of trust in others fears for how this could be used against me in the future.

    5. Menacia*

      I get paid to help people with their computer problems but I resent having to be the go-to person for my co-workers who do the same job I do. My response now is “did you look it up in the Knowledgebase”? Stop being so freaking lazy, you might actually learn something!

      1. Goya de la Mancha*

        It is frustrating to become a crutch. My self teaching is about 60% googling. It can be time consuming and unproductive sometimes, but that’s just how it goes. I dislike when others won’t take it upon themselves to at least attempt to find the answer (especially when it’s something that would be the first hit of a google search…)

        1. Snark*

          The thing is, you don’t know what you don’t know, and all Office programs are like icebergs of functionality. You can google for something if you know there’s probably a way to do what you want to do, but…..

        2. Elizabeth West*

          I google for stuff all the time (half of me doing my last job was googling stuff I didn’t know) but I really appreciate when somebody shares something that can help me. This is a person I am more likely to share my cookies with. :D

    6. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

      I call these my work hobbies. I’ve learned certain things that interest me and I can use at work that aren’t in my core job. (Example, SharePoint development) for the most part I will do things for others or teach them, but if it’s not something that my boss has directly asked me to do something or train someone, I treat it as a hobby – meaning if I have time or if it interests me.

    7. SarahTheEntwife*

      Is it just the time spent that you resent? If you’re ending up scrambling on your actual job because you’re spending too much time being unofficial tech support that’s worth addressing, but otherwise it seems kind of baffling to me.

      1. Goya de la Mancha*

        It’s a little bit of the time. I put in free time figuring these things out, time that others could have used their time to figure out their own “problems”. I think part of it is an unfounded fear that it gives said person a leg-up in the department if push ever comes to shove for jobs – training others so well I no longer have a job type thing.

    8. Student*

      Share things that you think would benefit your team/department/etc. Don’t become tech support if your job is not tech support. Offer tips and tricks with some self-awareness; unsolicited advice can easily come off as criticism unless you follow the cues of the person you’re working with.

    9. Mouse full of Anon*

      Honestly, most won’t remember the tips anyway so you’ll still be the expert on your team, at least that’s been my experience :)

    10. Ramona Flowers*

      You’re also missing out on some nice feelings and goodwill. It’s really amazing to show someone a cool computer trick that makes their life easier, to watch their face light up when they get it, to hear them say it’s going to help them. It feels good!

  128. Princess Daisy*

    How do you act normal around coworkers at a job you know you’re going to leave within the next 6 months when the future of the company is so frequently discussed?

    My husband will finish grad school in May, which (with my my current income) will at a minimum, triple our combined income. This will give me the flexibility to pursue another career, which will likely pay $10-15k less than my current job (my husband is in full support of this, and we are educated about how to spend/invest our money, but that’s not relevant here!)

    Anyway, I feel like a fraud when my coworkers/boss approach me about different projects/programs/initiatives that they want me to grow and take on. In my position, a sales support role, I take on many long-term projects given to me by any of our seven sales reps. I feel bad hearing sales reps so frequently tell me that they want me to “Do X project for X customer over the next year” when I know I won’t be around. It feels fake to go along with it, and I feel like I’m going to let them down when I leave. I know it’s normal to leave a job, but I don’t want to wreck the great relationships I’ve built when I leave. I think my departure will really come as a surprise to most.

    Any suggestions?

    1. CM*

      I think Alison’s standard advice about this is to just carry on and not worry about it, even if your job is making plans that specifically depend on you. You can try to make sure your work is well-documented and won’t be too tough to transition, and that’s it.

    2. Ainomiaka*

      I mean, the transition may take longer than you think unless you are able to just give notice with nothing lined up? And it may take longer than you think for him to line up a job. Life fluctuates generally, and talking about a project doesn’t mean a contract to stay and do it all. I know feelings aren’t necessarily about cold facts, though, so also just empathy.

  129. Data Pseudoscientist*

    So, our job changed some more programming and statistics inclined data analysts titles and now we are officially called Data Scientists. Seems cool, but to be frank, we don’t really do much of data science — we dealt with similar amounts of data before (sure, they were huge, but it’s nothing really new), we used to make predictive models, dig around for new customer insights and so on. We don’t really do much of machine learning or deep learning or frankly anything more advanced, we don’t have time for experiments or learning new stuff . I’m beginning to think that this title change is going to affect both my professional development and my future job searches. What do you think?

    1. yup*

      In a graduate program related to this field…. It’s such an evolving and growing industry that I think the lines are going to be blurred for a few more years.

      Analyst vs Data Scientist vs Analytics Specialist vs Intelligence Analyst

      Right now, they all are trying to get to the same goal… Sift through a bunch of garbage and pull out the one piece of treasure. Focus on what you are doing and trying to achieve. Don’t worry about the title. As technology evolves you will probably have a chance to learn more.

    2. Reba*

      Spouse is in software. Titles are all over the place there: engineer, developer, database architect, “C++ ninja” (for those trying too hard)…. I’m not sure how much that translates to your niche, but it doesn’t seem that the title itself is that critical, and people are aware of how much they vary from company to company.

      For example, spouse does not like being called an engineer — it’s a licensed profession — but that was part of the title at one place.

  130. Lynca*

    I need to vent: So schools have been closed in my area for 3 days. Today was the first day our office has been open since Tuesday.

    One of my coworkers brought their kid in. They’re screaming and running around right now. This is so far outside the norm I don’t even know what to do.

    1. CM*

      Try to let it go! Your coworker is probably desperate to get some work done and wishes they had some alternative.

    2. Goya de la Mancha*

      Sympathy your way. Unfortunately, because it’s outside your office norm, I don’t know if anything can be said without coming across as the office grouch because it’s some what of an “emergency” situation.

      1. Lynca*

        I could bring it up but I know that it would burn more capital than it’s worth. It’s a huge safety and liability issue. It bothers me that it isn’t taken as seriously as it should be.

        1. Lissa*

          This would bother me, too. I understand that emergencies happen but an emergency would mean I’d not complain about the kid’s presence. Screaming and running around would not fall into that category of things I feel the need to tolerate. Though because of many people’s attitudes about these things I’d probably not say anything either, so no real advice, just sympathy.

          1. Artemesia*

            One of the problems with no one having offices is that there is no way to manage something like this gracefully. I don’t mind the kid in the corner with a book or quiet toy but running around and screaming — WOW.

    3. LilySparrow*

      I sympathize with you and hope everyone got through the day safely.
      It helps me in situations like that to also sympathize with the child when I can. If they’ve been out of school due to weather for 3 days, they probably haven’t had the minimum amount of outside time and physical activity their brain and body must have to function normally.

      I’m a grown-up, and if I don’t get enough movement for a couple of days, I’m in physical pain all over. Kids sitting quietly with a tablet is convenient for us, but it’s really unnatural for an extended time and soon feels like torture.

      That doesn’t make it a good or okay situation, but it helps me with my annoyance to consider that the kid is behaving that way because they’re miserable, not because they’re “spoiled.”

  131. Alpha Bravo*

    So … after decades of working in logistics, technical/administrative support and compliance/quality positions, I’m devoting 2018 to a project that is pretty much a complete 180 from the kind of work I have been doing. It’s what I consider an artistic project; I wrote a story years ago with the intention of illustrating and marketing it as a children’s book. I’m confident in my writing and editing skills and my ability to format and lay out the work. The part that’s difficult for me is creating the artwork. While there’s some objective evidence that I do not suck as an artist, I have a severe case of imposter syndrome so it’s definitely going to be a case of fake it till I make it. I’m working out of a studio in my home, which is also new to me as I have previously worked on site. I know there are other writers and artists in the commentariat, as well as other folks who work from home. Any and all advice is welcome as I start my new adventure!

    1. CM*

      That’s so exciting! I don’t have good advice, but I think it’s great that you’re dedicating time to this. Imagine the end of 2018 when you’ll have a completed book!

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Whoa, good timing! I’m kinda sorta doing the same thing (children’s book aimed at the 4-6 yr old set). I have some experience with writing and some with art, so I just started putting some stuff on paper to see if it will actually come together.

      My big challenge is that I’m pretty good at taking an existing idea and putting my own spin on it, but not so great at truly original work. I don’t know yet if that’s going to be too limiting for the stories I have in mind. I have a vast library handy and I’ve been looking to see the level of detail and the styles used in the books for my target audience. I’m trying to look at it less like “can I do that?” and more like “what appeals most to kids?”

      Honestly what helped most was just doing a couple of 5 minute pencil sketches of the scenery I imagined, and doing some basic drawing practice for sketching different facial expressions. I figure if I could do that, I could probably make it happen.

      Of course, at this point I’m just aiming to self publish rather than recruit an agent or publisher.

  132. ChangeChangeChange*

    I’ve been working in higher ed for about a decade (career services, but the good kind, I swear) and am now considering exploring the programmatic/administrative aspects of healthcare (for example, managing prof. development training programs or community initiatives for a hospital or health center). Any thoughts on this shift? Places to look other than individual health care networks’ websites? I’m in New England where there are a tons of medical institutions. Thanks in advance!

    1. Rainy*

      Check into community clinics as well, maybe? But honestly it sounds like if you’ve been working in higher ed it might be a pretty easy (well, as easy as those things ever are) switch to a program manager role in one of the local med/dental/whatever schools. Higher ed experience counts with those–I interviewed for a couple of program manager roles a few years ago, and I was put through based on my higher ed experience.

  133. Rainy*

    This is honestly more of a wtf than anything else, but…

    Has anyone else dealt with an office manager who is resistant to order common office supplies because they object to them on environmental grounds? A few weeks ago the batteries in one of my peripheral devices started going, and I sent a note to the office manager when I went to the supply closet and discovered that we had no batteries of the right size (and very few batteries of any size!) in the battery tub. I didn’t receive a response so after a couple of days (with my peripheral power level hovering around 11%, I checked in with them in person. They said “Oh, I thought I’d gotten some. I hate batteries anyway, they are very bad for the planet. I’ll put in an order.”

    When the batteries came, the office manager had ordered 8. Not 8 boxes, 8 batteries.

    I’m just really floored. Not really looking for solutions–if it comes down to it I’ll talk to my boss and let my boss chase it up the chain and back down again, but this seems ridiculous to me and I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced it.

          1. Rainy*

            Ours just bought reusable dishes (and instituted a reusable dish-cleaning rota on which they did not put down their own name) for office munchies because the paper plates offended them, even though we have composting bins in our office. When someone said “what if I’m just getting a piece of cake or something and don’t want to use a dish?” they said “Use a paper towel”.

            1. twig*

              I was so frustrated when my old office decided to go “green” by getting rid of disposable dishes and cups. We already had a problem with people not washing their dishes.

              I was the admin/office manager — Guess who got to wash the lazy peoples dishes :(

    2. Snark*

      That’s pretty ridiculous, and I say that as a conservationist and environmental scientist who doesn’t have much of a choice but to be agonizingly aware of such things. Batteries are not actually that bad for the environment, and if she’s got that much of a bug in her britches about it, she could always order rechargeable ones.

    3. The Tin Man*

      I have fortunately never dealt with this. But…you need batteries. I dislike throwing them away because they are bad for the environment but sadly is not much that can be done about that for now. And I certainly wouldn’t drag my feet on ordering more if that were my job! People need batteries to do their jobs. If the office manager cares that much they can expend their political capital to establish use of rechargeable ones but they should expect some pushback on that because they just do not last as long.

    4. Argh!*

      It could have been that the need for batteries isn’t that high, or that the budget is strained.

      I once had a supervisee object to replacing a flyer that had a glaring typo because of the environment. This person seemed to have a high opinion of himself and his righteousness, so I said “Would you rather have our customers think you’re an idiot? Because I’m not going to take the blame for that!”

      The flyer was corrected and replaced.

      1. Rainy*

        Nope, they said specifically “I don’t like batteries because of the environment” and then ordered 8. I know it’s not budgetary and I know I’m not the only one using them.

    5. Pollygrammer*

      Can you ask about rechargeable batteries?
      (You really, really shouldn’t have to, that is nonsense. It’s not the office manager’s job to decide what the office needs, it’s their job to listen to what the office needs)

      1. Rainy*

        I’m keeping that in my back pocket, but my experience with rechargables some years ago were that they didn’t work well for very long. Maybe they’ve gotten better.

        1. JKP*

          The rechargeable ones from the store aren’t great. I use Eneloop recharrgeable batteries I buy off Amazon, and I love them. I keep enough stocked so I don’t have to buy disposable ones anymore, and they hold their charge while sitting on the shelf.

    6. CheeryO*

      That’s obnoxious. I work for an environmental agency, so there’s all sorts of eco-shaming here, both overt and not, but I’ve just accepted it as part of the culture. I did almost strangle a coworker for suggesting that I was going to kill wildlife with my plastic bags that I bring my lunch in sometimes (I try to use re-usable bags at the grocery store, but sometimes you just forget, ya know?). Um, I was planning on recycling them, but thanks.

      1. Rainy*

        I live in a place with a lot of eco-shaming in general, and I get irritated that it’s a part of the culture here. One of the things I hate about eco-shaming is that it slides over into crip-shaming so easily, because reasonable accommodations for mobility issues almost always use electricity. “Why aren’t you taking the stairs?” “Those door open buttons are for people in wheelchairs, not you.” Etc etc.

        1. WellRed*

          Not quite the same but I have type 1 diabetes which means shots. Lots of shots. Syringes come with lots of extra plastic. When I was first diagnosed someone commented on that (not AT me, but still). What was I to do other than agree?

          1. Rainy*

            Oh man. I am so sorry someone would even comment. My late husband had mixed-type diabetes and yeah, lots of syringes. But better extra wrapping and that little cap that stops you sticking yourself accidentally than infections, and anyone who doesn’t get that is either ignorant or cruel.

            1. Observer*

              Generally it’s ignorance. But, that’s a good reason for keeping your mouth shut.

              You just don’t know when you are going to punch someone in the gut.

        2. Ramona Flowers*

          Yes, so much this. Sometimes I just do not have the bandwidth for the more eco-friendly but tiring way of doing something.

          1. Rainy*

            I’m planning to still have some knee cartilage in 20 years, so I don’t take stairs that aren’t necessary, and I very much like my building’s automatic door buttons when my wrist arthritis is bad and I can’t grip anything very well. You’d think push doors wouldn’t be a problem, but if I can’t hit them with my forearm from the side, the angle of my wrist when I try to push the door brings a tear to the eye.

            And despite this, I bike to work when the roads are clear. But somehow that doesn’t get me any credit. :P

  134. Associate Web Editor*

    Thanks to Alison’s cover letter, resume, and interview tips, and all of the wonderful comments and suggestions by her amazing readers, I’ve been offered a position as an associate web editor as a small DC-based nonprofit! I am hoping that I could now get some advice negotiating terms.

    My initial offer (over the phone) is $48k/year with 11 paid federal holidays; 5 days of sick leave per pay period/month; 5 days of vacation per pay period/month; health insurance, dental, and vision totally covered by the employer; and retirement savings matching after a year of employment.

    My background: BA in comparative literature from a highly regarded liberal arts college, 5 years experience working at a much larger non-profit, at an entry-level role but with a raise each year (started off at $30k/year, am now at $45k/year) and increasing responsibilities, including being part of a committee that organized/ helped manage a transition from our old website to our new one. I know HTML and XML (which helps with the web editor stuff).

    I realize that nonprofits don’t have a lot of room to negotiate but do you think it would be ok for me to write back asking, first, if this was an exempt of salaried position, and then, if $50k/year was possible? DC is such an expensive city, that extra $2k would make it so much easier to pay rent and still have money to pay off my student loans….

    Thank you in advance!

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      5 days of sick leave per pay period/month; 5 days of vacation per pay period/month;

      Are you sure that’s right? That’s 60 days of sick leave and 60 days of vacation per year, which would be unusually generous.

      In any case, yes, both of those are fine to ask about!

        1. Tara*

          Oh yeah, find some similar numbers to base your’s off of, but I would think you could ask for at least $8-10 k more, with the hope of actually getting around $5k more. You can mention cost-of-living in DC, but it would be stronger if you could point to “average pay for this kind of position is closer to X.”

  135. AndersonDarling*

    Corporate Photos- The letter this week about the not-so-perfect-photo reminded me of this situation at my office. One of our high ranking executives uses a corporate photo from 25 years ago. So she looks like a 20 something in the photo, and when she does appearances she is actually a 55 year old woman. We are getting more and more press every year and it is a bit awkward to have an online dating level of photo swapping when sending our representative for talks. The young photo is used for promotional materials for talks and on our website.
    I’m not in a position to say or do anything, but I wanted to share the oddity.

    1. CM*

      That’s kind of funny — people probably think she aged overnight!
      That’s exactly why I don’t like photos to be TOO flattering. I don’t want people to see me in person and think, “What happened??”

    2. DMLT*

      There’s an orthodontist in town who does the same. He’s retiring at age 70 (before the time my dd finishes her braces), but the photo on the web site and marketing materials is probably from his early 30s!
      When I first met him, I asked if he was in practice with his son. He said no and asked me why. I told him that the photo on his site was young enough to be his son. He just laughed. Didn’t change anything, though!

    3. MissDissplaced*

      I find these funny. I’m in marketing and often do the graphics, so I have no problem speaking up about bad headshot photos! Of course I am polite about it, but I tell them point blank if it’s time for an update, then bring in the camera for photo day.
      Lol!

    4. Chaordic One*

      This reminds me of my congress person. In her campaign ads she uses film of herself campaigning and shaking hands with people that must be at least 20 years old. She still dresses pretty much the same and has the same hair style but she has aged into a handsome, but somewhat dumpy, woman in her mid-50s. (There’s nothing wrong with being a bit dumpy and in your mid-50s.) But it is kind of funny.

    5. Thlayli*

      Haha my photo on linked in is almost 20 years old but it’s awesome – it was taken by a professional photographer I was dating at the time – so I’m not changing it any time soon!

  136. SheWoulf*

    Here’s a question I can’t seem to find the answer to. I *think* I already know the answer, but I could be wrong.

    My husband works 2 jobs for the same employer. He works from 7am-10am doing job 1, then from 10-1 doing job 2, and then from 1-4:30 doing job 1 again. So he is working more than 40 hours per week.

    My question is regarding a break time. Right now he currently does not get a break. He works flat out from 7am to 4:30pm every day. I’m concerned about him. He likes both positions and doesn’t want to leave one of them. The second one is somewhat flexible, and I don’t see why they can’t shorten it by 30 minutes so he can eat! I don’t believe he has said anything to his supervisors yet (he’s been there since August).

    His check stubs list the time he works in each job code, but then if he works anything over 40 hours total it is listed as overtime.

    My question is, if you work two separate job codes for one employer, are you entitled to the 30 minute lunch break? We are in NY, if that helps.

    1. Snark*

      Yes, he is absolutely entitled to a 30 minute lunch break, by law, where he’s relieved of all duties. One of his jobs needs to accomodate that legally mandated meal break.

      1. Artemesia*

        And even if he were not legally entitled, what kind of a monster carves up an employees day like that and doesn’t even allow them lunch?

  137. Llama Wrangler*

    I have a two part question: how do you predict whether a job is going to be dysfunctional? And, are all (non-profit?) workplaces sometimes dysfunctional, or do I just have bad luck.

    I know Alison has written about the former, but I have definitely vetted in the ways she suggests and still ended up places that a year or two down the line end up going off the rails. Some of it is leadership change, some of it is pressures caused by funding shifts, but at now my third job in a row that has started making me miserable after two years, I’m starting to wonder if I am the common denominator.

    A short summary (I work in education non-profits):
    -I had 3 jobs that were fine.
    -Then I had an international job (that I didn’t adequately vet) where the director had a mental breakdown, things collapsed in a dramatic way (think “false allegations of conspiracy” and “suitcase full of cash”), and we were all let go halfway through out contract.
    -Then I had a job (that I vetted) where overall things were okay but the director was an extreme micromanager who led to high staff turnover (it was a growing department so it didn’t come up when I asked). After my two supervisors left and I was directly managed by her, I left halfway through the year. (This was 4 years into the job.)
    -Then I had a (not thoroughly vetted, because I wanted to get out of the previous place) job where the boss was a megalomaniac and a micromanager, and after emotionally manipulating me and not giving me work for a year, she fired my two coworkers, made me pledge my loyalty, and still didn’t give me work to do. (I lasted two years.)
    -My current job was fine for a year, and then we lost funding, and now my current boss is being driven out by her boss because her boss wants to take control (and all of a sudden seems to be able to find funding, now that my boss is gone) and we’re all being made to justify what we do, why we’re important, and whether the project could run without us.

    So, am I too sensitive? Do I have bad luck? Do other people in non-profits also have these experiences?

    1. Oranges*

      I think that it’s something inherent to non-profits personally because part of your “pay” is in emotional satisfaction and that limits/effects the candidate pool* which does impact the likelihood of dysfunction. I don’t think it’s by much though.

      * The people who are strictly transactional about work will probably self-select out. The people who feel very strongly about Cause can be in denial that they’re NOT helping and will continue to wreak havoc.

      1. Llama Wrangler*

        I also sometimes wonder whether the mission-driven nature of non-profits gives people an (unjustified, in my opinion) excuse to ignore working conditions/organizational structures because they’re doing good work.

        1. Oranges*

          The “greater good” fallacy? I can totally see that. It’s okay that I’m overworking/abusing my minions because of The Cause. Or even It’s okay that my boss is overworking/abusing me because of The Cause.

    2. DwynywynLives*

      I have been working in non-profits internationally since 2008. I’ve had 4 CEOs, 3 of whom were very difficult to work under (working directly under all of them in managerial roles). Not everywhere is toxic, but I can tell you that a toxic CEO is not uncommon in the international non profit area that I worked in. I have probably 12 close friends/colleagues who’ve worked in the overall non-profit field internationally and all have some stories about toxic management, many managers are in it for pay and glory (going to fancy meetings with fancy UN and gov’t people). So it sounds from your comment it is not you or your vetting process but luck and not being able to observe all office interactions for a bit before starting to work in a place. Good luck tho – there are good places out there!

  138. Lydia*

    Is there a way I can address on my yearly evaluation the fact that my family had a series of major health crises last year that impacted me in significant ways? My father was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in July. In addition to caring for him, my mom is also the primary caregiver for her 90-year-old parents. My dad has been going through chemo and even though the prognosis is good, it’s triggered a depressive episode (I’ve struggled with major depression episodes and anxiety for about 10 years). I’ve been traveling one or twice a month to support him and my mom OR my grandparents (about an hour away) through surgery, chemo, hospitalizations, moving my grandparents into assisted living, and helping out my brother and sister-in-law with childcare. (For what it’s worth, I’m single and have no dependents, so I am the most able to help out with all these things and I am happy to do whatever I can for my family.)

    Our evals are a place to highlight our accomplishments above and beyond our normal day-to-day job duties, but I just feel like I should get SOME credit for SHOWING UP and DOING MY BASIC JOB while trying to support my parents and grandparents and struggling with my own mental health issues triggered by everything going on. Isn’t surviving an accomplishment??

    1. Snark*

      I think you can bring it up in the course of organic conversation about how the year has gone: “Well, it’s been a really tough year for my family and for me personally, and I’ve felt stretched to my limit It’s made it very difficult to reach above and beyond, but I’m proud that I haven’t let difficult circumstances bleed over into my professional life.”

      And I’m sorry! Whether you’re recognized by it by your boss or not – and you should be – that’s a hell of a full plate, and if you can say you showed up and did your job, that’s an accomplishment. My wife and son both had some health issues after he was born, and he basically didn’t sleep at night for the first year, and it was really nice when my boss said, “well, Snark, you basically did what you needed to do this year, but given that you’re a coffee-chugging zombie with a newborn, I think that’s above expectations! Well done, expect a raise.”

    2. Lynca*

      Generally what my yearly evaluation wants is something work related I did that was above and beyond the day to day duties. Say getting an advanced degree, presentations on work topics, or specific license would qualify. Unfortunately what you propose would not qualify.

    3. Buffy*

      Sorry to hear about your situation! I hope your father gets better soon.

      My understanding is that doing your basic job would be considered “meeting expectations” aka, keeping your job. So it does seem like that’s whats happening to me at least. As you said, the performance evaluations are trying to recognize the above-and-beyond, I assume for raises. So stay focused on your family and mental health and hopefully you can work on any other work accomplishments when you feel able.

  139. Night Cheese*

    Last week I went to grab my daily bottle of Polar Ruby Red Grapefruit seltzer from the work fridge, only to find some jerk drank half of it!!! I posted a note asking the guilty party to buy me a new bottle (I taped this note right under the pre-existing note about not consuming anything in the fridge that doesn’t belong to you).

    One week later, there is a bottle of seltzer on my desk – but it’s not the same flavor. I don’t really like flavored seltzer – EXCEPT for the Polar brand Ruby Red Grapefruit. I know I should just let it go and keep it as a backup, but I’m still annoyed AF. Stupid seltzer thieves who lack attention to detail.

    Thanks for letting me vent.

    1. Kramerica Industries*

      Honestly, I can’t believe you even received anything back! I’d put that in the ‘win’ column.

      But yes, fridge thieves are super annoying. You know this isn’t your food. Why are you touching it.

  140. Shrunken Hippo*

    I have an interesting problem. I have almost completely lost my voice and I’m supposed to be getting a call about the results of an interview in the next day or so. I don’t have an email for them, only a phone number. Any suggestions on how I should handle this? I can’t talk loud enough to be heard on the phone, but I don’t want it to look like I’m ghosting them either. I honestly doubt I got the job (there was a part of the interview I was completely unprepared for and really bombed), so I really want to make sure that I don’t come off as bitter or unprofessional so I will be considered again if another position comes up. Advice? Suggestions?

    1. AnotherAlison*

      It sounds like you have their phone number. Can you call them with a friend, and have the friend do the talking? Not that you want your friend to get into the details of an offer or rejection, but they could explain the vocal situation, ask if they could correspond by email instead and exchange emails. (Or they could leave a voicemail on your behalf to that effect.)

    2. Yorick*

      It’s ok to let them leave a message. Then, depending on the message, you can decide whether to have a friend call and get an email address or something else, or do nothing.

    3. Shrunken Hippo*

      Problem was solved. Apparently one of the interviewers had heard that I lost my voice so they just emailed me my rejection. Got to love applying for jobs in small towns! Now onto shifting my efforts onto another application and trying not to beat myself up about how badly I messed up that interview.

  141. Jesmlet*

    This may be better suited for an employment lawyer but I have 2 compensation-related questions…

    1. Can independent contractors be charged late fees for invoicing late if it’s in the contract they sign?
    &
    2. Company allows salaried workers to take unpaid days if they’re over their allotted PTO. Can salaried commission-based workers be docked a pro-rated amount of their monthly commission for these unpaid days as well?

    1. Natalie*

      For #1, I believe to a certain extent this is going to depend on what’s allowable in your state, both in written and case law. But if it’s allowed, and it’s in the contract, then they’re in the clear.

      For #2, this is definitely fishy IMO – you’re allowed to deduct a “day’s pay” from an exempt employee for absences, but commission is not part of your “day’s pay”, it’s a completely separate revenue scheme that is not at all tied to attendance. Commissions aren’t like bonuses, they are considered earned income (once they are actually earned per the commission agreement).

      I’d definitely check both of these out with an attorney!

  142. Ainomiaka*

    Suggestions for long term technical career path if I am not sure if I want to manage people. My job pays not enough, and is getting to feel routine-everything done is achievable, but then I get bored. I’m also really frustrated by my annual evaluation. Everything just makes as meets expectations. Ok, first off I do have the self awareness to know there are things I’m noticibly better at than others. Secondly when I ask what I should do better and or am doing great, I get “oh, it’s wonderful, thank you for working here.” And that doesn’t help.

    1. Thlayli*

      Fact is many technical companies aren’t great at recognising people as “technical experts” or whatever so for many technical people management is often the only way to progress. There are companies that do recognise expertise though and have higher pay grades for technical positions.

      The main issue seems to be the lack of clarity in your own workplace. Ask your manager directly about your potential career path in the company and how you can progress.

    2. Aly_b*

      Can you repurpose Allison’s interview question about “what would distinguish someone doing a good job from someone doing a great job” in the context of your annual evaluation? Sample wording “(Boss), I’ve been thinking about my annual evaluation, and I wanted to ask you what I would need to do over the next year to get exceeds expectations rather than meets during next year’s evaluation.” They should be able to point to something… and if they can’t or don’t, they’re giving you important information about the job, namely that they don’t expect you to exceed expectations and have no idea what that looks like.

  143. Can't Sit Still*

    I am exhausted and I don’t know what to do. I’m finishing up my masters program and taking on new responsibilities at work and it feels like my brain is going to implode. Sunday night, I made cookies. Monday night, I came home and thought the apartment felt awfully warm, and I had left the oven on. I feel like a zombie driving to and from work. I moved two years ago and I’ve still not finished unpacking and my apartment is a disaster area.

    My advisor told me to take a break this weekend and not think about school at all, since I’m ahead of schedule. I just bought a sunrise alarm clock, since I tend to be more tired this time of year anyway. I have time off planned, but it’s not for another month. I’m getting plenty of sleep, it’s more emotional exhaustion.

    Any advice? I clearly need to do something to fix this before something terrible happens. (And reading this, I’m barely coherent.)

    1. Manders*

      Oh no! I’ve been in a similar place with stress lately, and the memory lapses are pretty scary.

      Three things that have been keeping me on an even-ish keel:
      1) Is there anything you can outsource when it comes to managing the parts of your life you can’t deal with right now? Cooking, cleaning, grocery delivery, etc?
      2) I didn’t have the time and energy to find a therapist, so I signed up for one of those therapy apps. While it’s a different experience than a traditional therapist, having someone I can text a quick message to when I’m feeling overwhelmed is helping.
      3) I know “see a doctor” is a pat answer in this kind of situation, but if you’re feeling foggy, it’s a good idea to talk to get a professional to check your vitamin levels, thyroid, etc. to make sure there’s not a potentially fixable health issue at play.

  144. TiffIf*

    Super stressful week at work! My supervisor and colleagues are great we’re just at crunch time–tomorrow night is our deliverable. Baking helps me de-stress so last night I made a double batch of jumbo lemon raspberry cupcakes. Of course, I am not going to eat all of them, so I brought baked goods to work today.

    What does everyone else like to do after a stressful day/week to decompress?

    2. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      I save a heck of a lot of money doing my own manicures/pedicures, which is also a great de-stressor. Between the buffing, soaking, working on cuticles and polishing with precision, it takes my mind off of things. I also am constantly asked where I get my nails done because they look so nice. People almost don’t believe me when I say I do them myself! :-)

    3. Amber Rose*

      Video games. My go-to venting game is Katamari Damacy. There’s just something so satisfying about rolling the whole world into a ball.

      Also romance novels. I love me a good romance novel.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I love that game; I need to play it again. It’s great for getting used to the controller when I’ve had a long break from the console. And you’re right–it is very relaxing even if you don’t do well on a level.
        LOL it’s so hilarious. My ex and I used to make fun of the King of All Cosmos having such, erm, tight pants.

    4. Curious Cat*

      I’m also big on baking to de-stress! Something about the smell of warm baked goods really does good things for me…
      But also I do some mind-body yoga and nighttime meditation before bed if I’m feeling particularly stressed out that day (the app Calm is especially great).

    5. Oranges*

      Read. I can get really into books where I forget who “I” am. It’s like making the world go away for a bit.

  145. Becky*

    So for the first time in my career, I have a work issued laptop. I’m not going to ever log in to my personal accounts from this computer and I’m not going to use it to access porn or something, but any advice on use and care of company issued hardware in general?

    2. RG*

      Assume everything you do could be tracked/recorded by the company and proceed accordingly. Don’t download new applications/software without permission from IT, because that can be a vector for viruses/compromising your system. Be careful about the links you click while browsing and stay on reputable sites. If possible, don’t eat food that can drip/splatter over the computer and try to carry it in bags with a sleeve or in a laptop case.

    3. AcadIT*

      IT person here (in academia, where people tend to blur the lines between personal and work a bit more than other areas):

      Just take care of it the way you would if it were your own! Keep it clean, be aware of how you’re transporting it so it doesn’t get dinged up, keep it away from water. Don’t let your kids download junk onto it. Don’t apply stickers or other stuff like that.

      The IT person who performs maintenance, troubleshooting, or warranty work on the computer in the future will thank you ;) The number of laptops I get back in a condition that shows “I don’t care about this because it isn’t mine” makes me sad.

  146. RG*

    I’d definitely think less of my friend if they did nothing to curb it, though it’s possible that Greg sees letting his friends respond as “doing something.” Still, you clearly don’t agree with that judgement, which is fair. I personally wouldn’t reconsider my entire friendship with someone based on this, especially given Greg’s other work, but I’d definitely question his judgement going forward.

    Ultimately, though, it’s Greg’s page and it’s his right to use it in this way if he wants to. It’s your right to “unfollow” or “unfriend” him if you don’t want to engage with it, or engage with James if you do.

  147. Teapot librarian*

    Things you didn’t realize needed to be said explicitly until something gets messed up because you didn’t say them? In my case, it was that I didn’t tell one of my employees that he needed to stay in the office this afternoon (his position frequently takes him to other sites) because he and I are the only staff here and I have a meeting in another building (he knows about the meeting). I can’t just close the office because I have an intern and a volunteer here, both of whom need staff supervision due to the nature of our teapots. (I’ve called my employee to ask him to come back, but he didn’t answer–if he’s actively driving, I’m glad he didn’t answer–and I have no idea if/when he’ll get my message.) No need for advice here, just venting about my own lack of foresight.

    1. Uncivil Engineer*

      1) You cannot get the mileage reimbursement for driving your own car if you took Uber.
      2) When I said, “Can you print that out for me?” I also wanted you to bring it to me when it was done printing.
      3) Do not Reply To All on a Department-wide email.

    2. Aly_b*

      “Can you please draft this report”… should have been followed by “and let me know when it’s ready for my review”

  148. Pennalynn Lott*

    AAM hive – I need your help with a couple of lines on my resume. I need metrics, not task descriptions, but I have no idea how to put metrics to these two things:

    • Examine QuickBooks accounts quarterly for data entry mistakes
    • Compile and process quarterly and annual federal and state filings

    So, it’s basically describing the bookkeeping duties I do for my own small company. (I’m applying for internal auditor internships and jobs). My business partner (the a-hole Boyfriend) does most of the data entry, then I go in quarterly and clean everything up because he invariably enters a few dozen things wrong. How on earth to I “metric” that, as well as doing the required government filings???

    1. Oranges*

      What is “metric-ing”?

      If it’s what I think it is then for QA it’s always about the percentage of mistakes you catch (the first line).
      For the second… processes created around the task that saves company loot would be my best guess.

      1. Pennalynn Lott*

        Thanks.

        And, yes, “metric-ing” is putting numbers to things. “Increased sales by X%; decreased error rate by Y%.” I just don’t have any numbers to go with correcting mistakes in QuickBooks (I don’t ever count how many I fix), and proper/timely filings just keep me from having to pay a late-filing penalty, which I don’t even know the amount of because I’ve never filed late.

        1. Oranges*

          Filed on time 100% of the time to avoid late fees?

          Are there any mistakes that got through? Then count the mistakes for a week. Use those two as your base numbers and throw an approximate in front of it.

          2. Oranges*

            Eg. You didn’t catch 3 mistakes last year. You catch 5 mistakes per week. 5 mistakes * 50 = 250 mistakes. 3 uncaught mistakes out of 253 total mistakes = 1.18577% so you would then have caught approx. 99.988% of mistakes.

  149. ExemptQuestion*

    Just before Thanksgiving I moved from non-exempt to a position that is exempt. I’m really enjoying the job change and the flexibility that comes with it, but I have a question about PTO. Last week I went home sick on Thursday. I left at 12:30 and was home the whole day on Friday. My company policy is that if you are exempt and you take time off it should be in 4 or 8 hour increments, basically a half day or a whole day. But doesn’t being exempt mean they have to pay me for the whole day if I work part of it and that I don’t have to use PTO?

    1. AnotherAlison*

      I’ve always been exempt. We have the same policy on taking 4-8 hr increments on PTO. They do have to pay you, but they can still require that you use PTO. If you’re out of PTO, they can find a way to deal with it. Here, under special circumstances, you can go negative on PTO, but you still have to against it. I have the flexibility to work 2 hrs another day and take 2 hrs off, but that is discussed with my manager. If you don’t follow the policies, you’ll eventually be PIP’d or let go, so while they have to pay you, you can’t just do what you want here. I’d say your policy isn’t unusual.

    2. fposte*

      No, that’s not what being exempt means. Being exempt is about what they can do to your pay, not about your PTO; they absolutely can require to use PTO, and it’s pretty standard that they do. However, if you used up all your PTO and got sick and went home midday, they couldn’t dock you half a day’s pay as recourse.

    3. Red Reader*

      my org’s policy is the same, and yeah, they have to pay you, but they can also require you to use PTO. (And if you were gone for a day and a half, why on earth shouldn’t you be expected to put it against your PTO?)

  150. Academically Uncertain*

    Hoping to get a little perspective here. I’m finishing a post-graduate training program and recently had the good fortune to have two faculty job offers come in at about the same time. One was in the place where I had been an undergrad, traditional college town, I knew and liked the other faculty in my department and division, lots of friends around; I was thrilled at the chance to return. The other was a different university trying to rebuild the division I’m in; I don’t know anyone in the area, and the faculty in my division seemed a bit dull, but they made me a fantastic once-in-a-career offer. I was on the fence about what to do, but while I was trying to decide, I became aware of some nefarious issues with my alma mater (think: backstabbing, tattling, that sort of thing). That was enough for a dealbreaker, so I politely declined — which was so hard; it felt more like a breakup than turning down a job offer — and went with the other place.

    Career-wise, I’m happy with my choice, but every time I tell someone what my next step is going to be, there’s a tiny little voice in the back of my head going, “You could have gone to Alma Mater!” I realize that this is all nostalgia, but how do I make it stop? I’m having trouble even looking at apartments/houses online, because every time I go on Trulia or Padmapper, I get irrationally upset that this new place isn’t my college town and just nope on out. I’m committed on paper; how do I commit internally? My parents were like, “Well, if you are still unhappy after 5 years you can always move.” Even assuming the job is still open by then, that’s not so easy on the tenure track!

    1. fposte*

      You also could have been an astronaut or a cowgirl, or worked at a university in China. Why do you think this particular alternate you is haunting you so much?

      I don’t know if this is you, but I think that it’s not uncommon for academics to have a life-stage crisis when they land a first tenure-track job; it really is more like a marriage than taking a non-academic job, in that it’s expected to be a long-term commitment and it has a lot to do with how you identify yourself. So if you always pictured yourself living in leafy East Cupcake and walking to the ivy-clad department and you’re driving through mall-land to dull 1990s build, that’s a difference.

      FWIW, though, a return to a department you knew as a student can be really tough; it’s very hard to get people to recalibrate their view of you. I think you’re yearning for an idealized version that wouldn’t have been true, and maybe you just need to let yourself grieve a little (see above: re life-stage crisis) that growing older means understanding that some of those dreams won’t happen.

    2. WellRed*

      It’s your alma mater. I am guessing it’s your safe, happy place where you weren’t a full fledged grown up and everything was sunshine, lollipops and rainbows. That was then. You are now in an adult job and need to make some committments to settle in and enjoy the next phase.

  151. Jennifer*

    I just kind of want to roll my eyes about this.

    (a) Big Boss got recruited over the summer and moved on.
    (b) Second in command is now interim Big Boss, except she’s retiring in 2 weeks. 2IC apparently did a terrible job of hunting for his replacement in time before she left, because they didn’t like any of the candidates who applied.
    (c) Now that 2IC is leaving, they’re now having the Super Big Boss supposedly the Acting Big Boss until they find someone else…except Super Big Boss is retiring in 5 months too.
    (d) It sounds like they aren’t doing a super great job with recruiting–they considered hiring a professional firm to do it but now some random person is doing it and found like, 2 candidates.

    I am seriously thinking they may not be able to find another Big Boss before Super Big Boss retires too. It’s amazing how bad they are at well… a lot of things.

  152. Yulia*

    I go out to lunch with a group of people once or twice a week. There was one guy who used to go with us and now he stopped going. He’ll go out with other people, but not with our group anymore. He went out with them when I was out sick though.
    I think it has something to do with me because they have mentioned how quiet I am and I know it makes some people uncomfortable, but I didn’t say or do anything to this guy, so I’m not sure what the problem is.
    Even if I am the reason/problem, how do you fix this? (Can you even?)

    1. goodluck!*

      Eh, he’s just not your type of person. Unless you want to start talking more (and frankly, I’d only do this if you think it’ll help your selfesteem and career), it’s just the sort of thing that happens. I feel like talking to him would just be super awkward over such a small thing, assuming it doesn’t affect your job otherwise.

    2. fposte*

      Agreeing with goodluck–nothing’s broken here so there’s no reason to try fixing. He gets to not go out with your group and even to not enjoy you personally. I get that it can sting, but as long as you work together professionally, friendships and hangout preferences are up to the individuals.

    3. animaniactoo*

      If you think it’s just a personality mismatch, then let it go. For whatever reason, he’s taken it hard enough that he’s chosen voluntarily to change what he’s doing. There’s nothing really “bad” about him having done that. It’s his choice and you should let it be his choice without comment.

      However, if you think there’s a shot that it’s not about something you’ve said to him, but rather something he’s heard you say or do, you can approach that as a question which will get you the info you need about whether or not there’s anything you can or should do to try and repair it. “Hi, this might be awkward but I’ve gotten the impression that you’re avoiding me. Is there something I’ve said or done to upset you?” He says “no, it’s just me” and you take that on and let it go. He says “I heard X and it really bothered me and I just didn’t want to blah blah blah” – you listen, you decide whether you think what he has to say is valid, you decide whether you want to address it and if so how. In the moment, if you need more time, you say “Thanks for telling me, I’m going to think about that some.” and leave. Don’t say you’ll get back to him, because you may not want to and this way leaves it essentially “permanently tabled” without the need for further response.

      FWIW – I have seen this situation where one person has a crush on another but is in a committed relationship and chooses to avoid the crush to reduce the influence of it. No harm, no foul, just taking care of self and nothing anyone did wrong.

  153. goodluck!*

    Do you stay in touch with your old references/network even when you don’t need a reference? How do you do that? I’ve heard about sending Christmas cards, but I’m not really the sort (and I don’t have addresses and it’d be weird to ask at this point), and I can’t think of anything else. Checking in to say hello feels SO awkward… especially when everyone is almost too busy to answer emails.

      1. goodluck!*

        I am as well, I was just trying to think of something more… active? Otherwise I haven’t talked to some of my references in a very long time, but then I need a reference.

        1. Tara*

          A holiday email might be a good touch point. Also, in academic cases, if I see a job opening at my current company that I think their students/department might be interested in, I forward it along with a quick note that I’m doing well, thanks for all their advice in the past.

          Curious to see others’ answers too.

    2. Product person*

      I absolutely stay in touch. This makes me feel less awkward when I have to ask them for a reference. Here are some examples of how I do it (definitely doesn’t include sending Christmas cards, although some of these contact send them to me):

      – My husband has more time to watch YouTube videos related to high tech then I do; when he finds an interesting one I think a CTO I worked with in the past would like, I’ll forward it to him (no more than once or twice a year). I’ll include a note talking about my last vacations, and ask about his (we both like to travel). The CTO always replies (sometimes weeks later if he’s busy) to thank me. I’m acting as a “curator” of good videos for him, so the emails are well-received.

      – I live near Houston, so when they had the flooding there, I wrote to old contacts offering a place to stay if they got displaced (they thanked me and said they’d take me up on that if their house was affected; luckily it wasn’t).

      – I realize a person I just met has common interests with a old reference. I’ll ask both if they’d like to be connected, and they always say yes. I then make the introduction and this ends up being another nice way to remain in touch.

    1. Tequila Mockingbird*

      You’re right. I didn’t see the “work-related” note at the top of this post. Sorry!

      Allison, feel free to delete this if it should go elsewhere.

  155. crookedfinger*

    I got the job promotion to marketing assistant. They finally made it official-official and told the office yesterday.
    Today, the person I was was supposed to be working under, who I was very much looking forward to working with, told me she was going to be leaving the company at the end of the month, so not only do I not get to work with her, I don’t even get to really train with her, either (since I need to keep up with my current position until they get someone hired to fill it).

    I am still kind of excited, but also sad and uncertain now, and not looking forward to how stressful this year is going to be.

    Anyone got stories about situations that looked like they were going to turn into a shitshow and actually turned out alright? I could use some cheering up.

    1. Amber Rose*

      Some years ago I interviewed for a job I really wanted, and was turned down. Then two weeks later they asked if I wanted it after all. I had to get a background check and submit it, which I did, but then I never heard back about my starting date. So I called, and found out the manager who had hired me had been fired for… many things, including hiding work and destruction of property. The district manager got in touch with me and arranged a start date/time, but when I showed up they were still closed. She had to travel in from another city and was running late, I later learned. I worked there for two or three months with no manager, under a woman with a chronic lying problem.

      I had so many bad vibes and bad omens going into this job, man oh man. But it ended up being one of my favorite jobs, and I only left two years later because I found an opportunity with significantly more pay. I was sad to leave.

      1. crookedfinger*

        Thanks for sharing! My current job has already been my favorite job, so I’m hoping moving up in the company will be even better. I guess the worst that could happen is I get stressed out and don’t know what I’m doing, which isn’t really the end of the world…

    2. AnotherAlison*

      I guess I would just advise that it takes some time.

      This was 10 yrs ago, but I took a newly created internal position working with an executive. Two months later, they hired another guy into my now “group” who had 25 years on me. This was never planned, but that guy became available due to a merger/layoff at another unrelated company. I then reported to him, and he was an unusual character who I didn’t particularly get along with. Then, three months after that the executive who formed these positions quit. He was the president of our division, and only stayed <12 months total. Things went downhill from there (the recession soon followed, our group got moved from our division to another one, those executives didn't quite know what to do with us, and so on.)

      But! There is a silver lining. I am actually still with this company. I've been here almost 13 years. I spent a lot of time in that role and it was never awesome, but I made some connections and was able to move into my current role as a very long shot, but people vouched for me. I like this role, and I'll be moving to a new role soon with an opportunity I never in a million years thought I would have.

      I really learned that change and restructuring is more normal than not, and if you hang on and ride things out, you can use changes to your advantage.

  156. Em from CT*

    I’m confronting a bit of a dilemma in regards to my annual evaluation. This year my evaluation was due in September, and my manager didn’t even mention it to me until October. He kept on rescheduling our sit-down for it until November. And at that point, I ended up in a situation where I got transferred to a new department (though this guy is still my manager…long story) and the new department has entirely different annual eval procedures.

    So the upshot of this is, I didn’t get an annual review this year. While I do have a sense of what I need to develop and work on—my manager is, bless him, good at giving feedback during the course of the year—it’s not documented anywhere, which means it’s hard to document any progress I make. And then of course there’s no official record of my (generally very good) performance, which means that when my manager starts pushing for a raise for me, there won’t be any documentation.

    I’m thinking that it would make sense to approach my manager and his managers and say something like, “Because of the timing of my transfer to New Department, I didn’t get a chance to finalize my annual review for Old Department. I’d like to have a record of my work, though. Even though it’s a different form, can Manager and I follow New Department’s employee evaluation process and have that added to my file?”

    Thoughts? Would love any input!

    1. goodluck!*

      I think that’s a good idea, except I would phrase it in terms of feedback instead of “have a record.” I get wanting a record, but I think it would come across better to be interested in how you can improve, you know?

  157. MM*

    Two months ago I was let go from job because my anxiety was affecting my job and my accommodation request was denied. I went to a solicitor and sought a second opinion at another one. They both agree that legally there is nothing I can do because the firm’s has a solid position. They did not allow working from home (due to the kind of work they said) and there was only open office space except on the top 2 floors. One floor was all conference rooms for meeting us only and the other was for executives. Has this happened to anyone else? How did you get over feeling so dejected?

    1. fposte*

      Oh, I’m sorry; that’s disheartening for sure. But it sounds like you took the action you could and the thing to do now is to move your focus from that job to a possible new job. (And also to explore therapy if you’re not already.) So start applying to places if you haven’t already, and use your network not just to find possibilities but to find out as much as possible about work culture and physical configuration in places in advance.

      Good luck!

    2. Oranges*

      Does it help you to reframe it that what you were asking for wasn’t reasonable accommodation ONLY in their office culture? In 99.99% of office cultures it would be fine.

      Relationship Advice Analogy: “I have a wonderful SO who does x, y and z and we’re soul-mates but they won’t wipe their butt EVER (because Reasons). How fix?” The advice would mostly be “You can’t fix. Don’t try. Figure out if you can live with it or not”

      You deserve someone who will wipe their butt. They deserve to be with someone who doesn’t mind the butt-stench.

  158. Miz Swizz*

    What’s the appropriate amount of time to wait between interviewing for and not getting a job and connecting with the interviewer via LinkedIn? I realized during the interview that the job wouldn’t be a good fit, so there’s no ulterior motive. I just liked the interviewer, we do very similar work and I’m interested in connecting.

  159. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Late to this, but:

    I will be making 55/hr doing German language work for a few days; and

    Smelly, often-snacking coworker with the annoying laugh and loud cell ring tone, who also falls asleep at her desk sometimes, is out today, now that I’ve moved into sharing open office space with her to do this new work. Hallelujah!

  160. hiring academic Librarian*

    People, if you are interviewing for an academic position, do your research. Your resume looked great. You obviously have the qualifications to get the position. Prepare for your job talk. Read the website. Look at local stare holders. That is all.

    1. AnotherJill*

      I’d add two things. One, if this is for a tenure track position, have some rudimentary understanding of what that means at the institution. And two, if you get an interview, don’t come in and start every answer with “well, at my current institution we do it this way…”.

  161. Anonymousaurus Rex*

    I need to figure out how to handle applying for an internal transfer/promotion at my company. My partner is in the process of applying to grad school. We don’t know where she’ll get in yet, but her top choice is in Washington State. I work for an employer in California who also has locations in Washington. Today on our careers site a position was listed that’s about as perfect as it could get for me at my company at the Washington location. It would be a pretty big promotion, but I could totally do the job. My partner thinks I should just go ahead and apply for the position, even though she doesn’t know whether she’ll get into school there yet. After all, she could hear back from schools before I hear whether I get the job, and positions in my niche area of expertise at the right level don’t come up all that often. If I got the job and she got in, we could just move up there sooner rather than waiting until this fall…

    But how do I manage this timing?! I think I’d have to let my manager know that I’m applying and ask for her support, which will tip her off in general that I may be moving soon. The reality is that I’ll move and find a job wherever my partner decides on school, but if I can stay with my company (either remotely in my current position within my state, or out of state in another position) that seems like it might be the best solution. I’m worried that if I tell my manager I’m applying for a position out of state though, she’s going to get really anxious about whether or not she’s going to have to fill my position soon (and possibly treat me poorly as a result, she tends to resent people leaving our department). Ack! I don’t know what to do!

    1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      Apply anyway. Who knows if you’ll even get it, but there’s no sense in taking yourself out of the running by not applying!

  162. Curious Cat*

    Anybody have any suggestions on how to do easy meal prep for lunches during the week? I’m trying to save on eating out, but I’m also terrible at cooking…any suggestions are much appreciated!

    2. Lynca*

      Pinterest helped me with this. Recipes are about the only thing I use it for.

      My go to is sheet pan chicken and veggies. Roast them in the oven and put them in containers with brown rice.

    3. Oranges*

      What CAN you cook, and how much of your morning are you willing to sacrifice to lunch prep.

      Eg. I can cook but I want exactly zero minutes of my morning routine to be about getting lunch ready. This means that I cook big batches of something (usually a hotdish/casserole) that’s easy to microwave, put it in tupperware and freeze it. Another consideration: because I freeze it I have to look for meals that will stand up to freezing/thawing (don’t talk to me about rice).

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        Or what do you enjoy eating that requires no cooking (i.e., salads)? I spend Sunday evening chopping up all the ingredients for a week’s worth of salad and then prepare my individual serving (sans dressing – I just keep a bottle at the office) the night before and pop it in a tupperware in the fridge. It’s grab ‘n’ go in the morning!

    4. fposte*

      I swap between soup frozen in containers, like WDP’s tortellini, and easy bento–basically leftovers and fresh produce. You can do bento without cooking at all; I’ll roll up deli meat slices, throw in some cheese chunks, do a section of fresh spinach leaves with a dressing drizzle, and drop in some berries or a section of banana (peel still on). You can use pretty much any rectangular-type plastic container of roughly 800-1000 ml.

    5. Ainomiaka*

      I’m pretty big on just making extra of dinner the night before. Cooking a little extra isn’t really any harder (I think prepping between 2-6 servings of most things takes the same amount of work), it’s done, and I can generally tolerate the same meal twice in a couple of days.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I do this too–and as an addendum to fposte’s mention of bento, I will often use leftovers in my bento box, combined with a few things thrown in. I have a NordicWare multipot I can use to fix rice very quickly in the microwave, so it can cook while I’m having coffee/getting dressed. The box, which is covered in Totoros, has a small thermal container that keeps it hot. It’s a lot like this one only it’s pink. https://en.bentoandco.com/collections/totoro-collection/products/totoro-thermal-lunch-set

        You don’t have to have one like that, but it does make lunch fun. :) I find doing prep the night before helps me save time, as I am usually a slug in the mornings.

    6. Squeeble*

      Do you like salads? This week I brought in a big tub of lettuce and a bottle of dressing at the beginning of the week, and then each day brought a container of proteins and toppings.

    7. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Almost every day, I bring a salad with a hard-boiled egg and some kind of “goodies”, like sun-dried tomatoes or artichoke hearts. So it’s just greens, egg, “stuff”, lemon juice and salt. I also pack some hummus and carrots, plus a few pieces of fruit. Super easy. I boil a bunch of eggs on Sunday so they’re ready for the week. I also make my own hummus, but that’s not necessary.

      Other things I’ve done and still do sometimes, all for cold lunches (I’m not big on the microwave):
      – Roast a ton of veggies and keep them in a big Ziploc in the fridge. I put them on salads or eat them cold, on their own. My current favorite thing to do is sprinkle with olive oil, garam masala, and sea salt. Rutabaga, turnips, beets, sweet potatoes. Peel, cut into 1-inch pieces (they don’t have to be uniform), spread on a parchment-paper-lined sheet pan, drizzle with oil and sprinkle seasonings. 25 minutes or so at 400 degrees.
      – Make a big batch of noodles or rice. Add to salads or eat on its own with soy sauce, a little sesame oil, some sriracha. Add one of those hard-boiled eggs.

    8. The IT Manager*

      Crock pot meals tend to freeze / reheat well. I always put part of my crockpot meal in the freezer to pull out in a few weeks.

      For office meals. Sandwiches or a stew over rice. Side of veggies. All in separate microwavable containers so you just pop when in the microwave when hungry.

      I always find prepping a salad annoying time consuming. (Not that it really is.)

      1. Oranges*

        Ditto. I hate chopping for some odd reason. It always feels like it takes FOREVER so salads are not my jam.

        1. WellRed*

          If you have a few extra dollars, i recommend pre chopped or shredded veggies. Red cabbage, carrots peppers, onion, radishes…

    9. Natalie*

      I have a middle ground suggestion if you really don’t want to cook: frozen meals (like “TV dinners”, but you know, the good brands). They’re usually about half the price of takeout in my area, and no cooking is required.

  163. Not Ned Stark*

    I’m not even sure how to ask this question, but I hope someone can point me in the right direction.

    I’m hiring for an IT-type job and have received an unusual number of candidates whose resumes were extremely similar — from formatting and structure to nearly the exact wording in some bullet points. While I expect candidates for a job to have a number of similarities, these were downright uncanny. (Most were vastly over-educated for the position I need, so I rejected any that seemed fake or suspicious.)

    I mentioned this in passing to a friend, who told me that some people who are looking for IT jobs hire an agency to write their resume AND do their interviews. So someone completely different than the person you interviewed shows up for the job! Has anyone else heard of this? I can’t figure out how to phrase it for Google. If it’s real, my fellow hiring managers will want to know about it. If anyone has any info about this rumor, thank you in advance!

    1. Tara*

      Try putting the reoccurring phrases in Google. Maybe they’re all working off the same example resume.

    2. Fake old Converse shoes*

      Maybe they’re copying someone else’s resume. That and fake job experience are really common among college students. If that’s the case, they’re not even trying to hide it.

  164. Oranges*

    What do you self censor about?

    Personal Example: I self-sensor the gender of my dates when I’m in “public” (aka with people I don’t know well enough to know if I’ll get the “ewwwww” or “I think it’s a sin” or “You’re going to hell” or “Never touch me again”).

    1. Not Ned Stark*

      I’ve talked glowingly about my brothers at work for years. A couple years ago, one came out as trans and now I have a sister and a brother. I work with a number of extremely conservative people and I find I say “siblings” or “family” now… or just don’t talk about them much at all. I hate it, but it feels like self-preservation among people I have to see and talk to every day.

    2. Lissa*

      I do not talk about a fact that a large part of my social life revolves around either pretending to be a vampire/orc/dragon, or directing other people in large social events while pretending to be vampires/orcs/dragons.

      1. Manders*

        After one of my first attempts at a very nerdy cosplay, I walked into my new-ish job on Monday morning to find that the mailroom worker had seen me in costume at the con we were both attending. She was a cool person and thought it was fun, but I’m grateful she didn’t mention it to my boss.

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      I’m ace/aro, and I’m lucky enough that I’ve never really been asked about dates or SOs (or the lack there of) at work beyond the nebulous, “what are you doing this weekend?” small talk. But I definitely would be super vague on that if ever directly asked. People can react really strangely to finding out, even when I phrase it as vaguely as just saying I “don’t date”.

    4. Manders*

      I self-censor about negative life events, like illnesses in the family. That did cause some problems at work a while back–my mom’s dying, and not talking about it meant I was glossing over a pretty big reason why I was stressed and out of sorts at work–so I’m trying to be more open without venting or complaining.

      While I don’t self-censor when I talk about writing science fiction, my main hobby, I’ve noticed that when I mention it to a new person I do get a little nervous that they’ll think it’s silly. Years of being told that science fiction isn’t “real” literature did a number on me, I guess.

    5. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

      Being nonbinary and using they/them. I’m open about being AFAB and married to a woman (I never censor myself about that), but I’m pretty sure people would be really weird/I would lose a lot of social capital at my job if I were to insist on it. Even if my state protects from being fired or discriminated due to gender identity

      1. Alexis*

        Oh, same. I’m open about being a lesbian, but do not want to get in to being NB around people I don’t want to endlessly explain things to.

      2. Anonymousaurus Rex*

        I always wonder about this. I worked with someone who came out as NB socially but not professionally (but someone I knew socially well enough to know about NB status, despite being coworkers). This person uses fairly nonstandard pronouns (ae/aer/aers) and I was always confused as to how to refer to aer at work. I also have my own trouble getting myself to use these pronouns without significant mental effort–they/them/their=zero problem, other pronouns=brain breakdown and mistakes even with lots of effort. I so SO respect NB status and know several NB and trans folks (cisgender lesbian here). I never want to be misgendering someone, but this situation was super hard for me. I did a lot of just referring to this person by name every single time.

        1. purple orchid pot*

          Q about this! I am a cis and hetero married female. Recently I said something about perceptions of females in the workplace to a somewhat androgynous-dressing person in my office whose first name is typically a woman’s name. I gestured in a “we” sort of way, not realizing/operationalizing in that moment that perhaps this individual doesn’t identify as female. If this were you, would an apology and/or explanation be appreciated or overbearing? Just asking because it’s super relevant to this train of thought. Thank you!!

        2. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

          Honestly I find those pronouns difficult and not for me! They/them is what I use. I’m a language dork and used to copy edit so I wouldn’t be using neologisms. I don’t want to be on the leading edge of the introduction of many new pronouns. A lot of people see that as more attention seeking or weird than they/them.

    6. Anonymoussssssssss*

      I smoke weed sometimes when I’m not waiting on pre employment drug testing/a planned drug test, but to my coworkers and boss it’s all in the past and I don’t smoke anymore. :)

    7. Curious Cat*

      I’m still in my early 20s and enjoy going out on weekends to clubs, rave concerts and bars…but definitely not something I share with coworkers! If they ask about weekend plans, I just say I’m hanging out with friends or seeing a show.
      (I also self-censor about dates, since the gender of my date can change from time to time and I’m not keen on answering questions about labeling. Also, none of their beeswax.)

    8. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      A LOT. My uncensored thoughts are really, really blunt and often harsh. Someone’s fat and the reason why is pretty clear because their lunch is actually enough for 2-3 meals. Someone’s behavior is annoying. Who the players are, unethical/dishonest things, etc. Pretty much anything negative get censored. There’s a lot of positive stuff that I censor as well, because society would find it very odd if I said it. Or said it in that context. But yeah, installing a filter on my thoughts was a very good thing for everyone around me.

      I do tend to relax the filter when online.

      1. Manders*

        Hah, yes, that’s a great point. A lot of my former coworkers didn’t need to know my thoughts on their wacky new-age diets, the way they were raising their kids, their poor choices in romantic partners, etc. If no one is being hurt, it’s kinder and more politic to smile and nod and redirect the conversation if it’s TMI.

    9. Julianne*

      Back before my now-husband “Daniel” and I were married, I edited him into my roommate “Danielle” (best friend from college and former roommate) in all conversations with my students (ages 8-11) related in any way to my personal life.

    10. Agnodike*

      I have a fairly serious chronic illness that is managed tolerably well with medication. I never ever talk about it. I don’t want sympathy, I don’t want people thinking of me as sick, I don’t want to talk about my personal life. It’s a challenge sometimes because it affects basically every other aspect of my life (and also my long-term planning!).

    11. Asperger Hare*

      I have to tone down my excitement and squee about day-t0-day things (spreadsheets! dogs! trees! that amazing noise I just heard!) because of my autism. I spend basically all day putting on a toned down, grey mask on all my emotions because I know it’s not acceptable in social situations.

      Most of the time I spend my drive home loudly making all the noises I have been holding in all day and happily flapping my arms (one at a time; I drive safely).

  165. Amelia*

    Does anyone else work with coworkers who make lots of noises to themselves? We have an open office set up and the desks are one long connected row. One guy makes heavy sighing, harumphing, mutters to himself etc. How do you not go insane? I’ve been doing music in headphones a lot but like a fair bit of my work I can’t do while listening to something else (need to focus).

    3. Overworked and Underpaid*

      I don’t have any advice, but I can sympathize with you. While my office space is not an open set, it’s very small and everyone almost always leaves their doors open. We also have another space across the hall so staff are usually up and moving throughout the day. One of the staff members is not shy about bodily functions and will burp and clear their throat (thinking the hacking sound one makes when they have post nasal drip and the mucous is in their throat) loudly throughout the day. I too suffer from post nasal drip often but will excuse myself to the bathroom if I need to clear my throat. Not only is it disgusting but it’s also extremely distracting.

  166. new poster*

    I feel like I am stuck in a soap opera today. One of my colleagues was served with divorce papers in the lobby of our building today. Her husband confronted her about the affair she has been having with another colleague. He’s single and her marriage was closed and monogamous. The husband claims the other guy knew this. There was a huge scene in the lobby and the husband said he has moved out of their apartment. She is 5 months pregnant and apparently the baby is not her husband’s. I feel bad but I couldn’t look away. I’m trying to stay out of the rampant gossip. But wow. Work is usually boring and not like this.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      The husband came in and served her and confronted her about the affair in front of everyone?!

    3. Don't Blame Me*

      That would be a distraction, for sure! At an old job, my husband was in a meeting once where two coworkers who had been having an affair but ended it (they were both married to other people) had some kind of weird argument in front of everyone in the middle of the meeting. Awkward!

      I worked as a server for a long time, and the restaurant industry is rampant with affairs, hook-ups, and break-ups. I once worked a shift after it came out that the bartender had cheated on his server girlfriend with another one of the servers. They were all working that night, I was sharing a section with “the other woman” and the bartender’s girlfriend came over at one point and quietly threatened her life in the middle of the dinner rush.

    5. WellRed*

      People, don’t have affairs, don’t have affairs with coworkers and, If you disregard the above, triple down on your birth control to try and mitigate the total trashy s*@t show. No sympathy even though her husband is a douche canoe.

  167. Allison*

    Recently it feels like I’m kicking butt at my job, but like 20 minutes ago my boss asked if we could chat this afternoon . . . but now she’s in a meeting and I don’t know when we’re gonna be talking, and I’m going over every possible thing I might be in trouble for and I am freaking out. How do I calm down, waiting for what could be a really awful meeting?

      1. Still a Work in Progress*

        Thanks for reposting this, I had a bad meeting early in my career that’s forever tainted these sorts of, “Let’s chat a minute, do you have time?” conversations.

        It’s just amazing how often these meetings are about mundane things like, “Your timesheet had a mistake in it, can you please fix that quick?” or “Your bonus should appear on your next check” or “there’s an issue with the doorcode, here’s how it can be fixed” and not “you’re a horrible human being, your opinion is bad and you should feel bad”.

    3. Oranges*

      I do the EXACT same thing. I don’t think it ever goes away but I find telling myself that my boss is reasonable and will try to help me fix any mistakes/issues I have helps.

  168. The Ginger Ginger*

    When you’re interviewing for an open internal position in another department, how do you handle the follow up email (fka thank you email)? Do you still send one at all? Do you say thanks at the end of the interview and let that be the end of it? Bring it up when you see your interviewer at the water cooler? For reference, the company is only about 70-ish people, and we all know each other, and I’ve worked with these folks on projects in some capacity for at least the last 12 months.

    1. Yorick*

      I would probably send a thank you email like you would with strangers (but the tone would be different, I think)

    2. Artemesia*

      Always follow up. Be appropriate to the relationships but you need to thank them and indicate your continued interest.

  169. HappyButSad*

    I started job hunting a couple months ago and had an interview yesterday (which I was invited to the day before, so this is all pretty sudden). It went well, but I’m full of emotions because it made the maybe-I’m-leaving aspect more real. (I still like my job, boss and coworkers, but it’s become apparent over the last couple years there’s just no room for growth.)
    Probably going to spend the weekend trying not to think about it. But also still sending out resumes because now I’ve got my interviewing jive back.

  170. Specialk9*

    I posted a month or so ago about my fear of pending layoffs, and got great advice that I wrote on a small paper I’ve kept in my wallet.

    I was actually laid off this week. I was able to keep my cool, not cry, and because I had rehearsed, I was able to ask good questions and even thank my boss, sincerely, for having been such a good manager. I made him choke up.

    I was able to get rehired in a different department, which means a bit of a career change. I’m feeling grateful, unsettled, and excited. I got lucky.

    Many thanks to all of you for your advice and support!

    1. fposte*

      Sounds like you negotiated a challenging change really well there–congratulations to you for doing that, and I hope the new department proves rewarding.

  171. Sabrina Spellman*

    How do you nicely tell your support staff to stop sending every person to you for assistance? My boss and I are both doing the work of two people and unfortunately, the woman who supports us and runs our front office doesn’t know the answers to a lot of everyday things so they land on me.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      If it’s everday things, can you put together some documentation she can reference? Or notes on where she should be going to find her answers instead? Can you give her a sort of escalation path document? EX: If client asks A, you should be able to answer that yourself by checking document Y. If client asks B, transfer them to department X. If the client is asking for Z, then you should refer them to myself or my colleague.

      Then if she transfers someone to you when she shouldn’t, you can reach out and remind her afterwards – this is the kind of thing you should be answering yourself with document Y.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      It might be as simple as making sure she knows she is empowered to do certain things.

  172. PuppiesKittensIceCream*

    Happy Friday! Someone just left a role I would love to take over at my company. I haven’t heard anything about a replacement and this open job isn’t listed on my company’s website yet. Does anyone have any advice or best practices on applying internally for a new role? My company does not have a formal process for this, and in my two years working here, I have never heard of an open role being filled by an internal candidate. Should I email the manager for this role, asking if the position is open and advocating myself for the role? Any advice or tips would be most appreciated.

    1. Thlayli*

      If you have met them previously go speak to them face to face would be my advise. If you haven’t previously met them then I would tread more carefully. Also how would your manager feel about you moving out? You might not be able to expect the same level of confidentiality as you would applying to a different position, so unless you know everyone involved very well, I would assume that your manager will find out straight away if you ask to be considered, so u might be better off talking to your current manager first.

  173. Anony Moose*

    So excited. My husband has a job interview on Monday for a job that pays $20k more than what he’s making now! He only started job-hunting this past Sunday (cleaned up and updated his resume and posted it on various job boards), and by Monday he’d already had a phone call plus five or six LinkedIn messages from recruiters. We had no idea he’d be so popular. :D Just had to share somewhere.

  174. melliza*

    I work in a small 2 room office (just my boss and I’m her assistant, no other workers). For the majority of the week she is out of the office and I find it hard to stay motivated to keep on top of my work. Some days I will have spent the full 8 hours just surfing the internet, which leaves me scrambling near deadline dates.
    Anyone have tips on how to break this bad habit and my general laziness?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Can you reframe “lazy time” as a reward? Like, tell yourself that if you accomplish 4 items on your to-do list, you can reward yourself with an hour of internet browsing.

      (I wouldn’t normally suggest this, but it sounds like there aren’t serious repercussions to your lazy time at the moment, or that your boss has noticed your lack of motivation/productivity….yet.)

    2. Penny*

      I am in the exact same position as you. It’s just me and my boss and I’m alone a lot. I waste a lot of time. (See: me spending lots of time on this site today.) No advice but I will say I’m good at getting things done at the last minute.

    3. Luna Lovegood*

      Make a list if things that must be accomplished today. And the next, and the next. Then, if you accomplish all of those, you have a choice: start on tomorrow’s things, or spend 10 minutes/half an hour/etc. on the internet or whatever. You could even segment the list into morning/afternoon or hourly segments.
      If your time management still leaves too many unfilled gaps, you could try asking for more projects to work on. I always find I am more motivated when I have more to do – it forces me to be more organised and manage my time better.

  175. Lissa*

    Tl:dr background – work at a job I love, but it’s contract and has some very slow times as well as no benefits. Have had another organization after me that I am not super enthusiastic about, but has benefits/mostly full time.

    Told my supervisor the other organization had contacted me, she ended up contacting the department chair and they had a meeting with me this week because they *really* want to keep me, but haven’t been able to get the permissions to make a full time position for me (not looking for advice on this part of things, it’s legitimate/normal with what I do and I’m not American anyway so some things are likely different). I ended up negotiating for a pretty significant hourly pay raise, as well as a discussion about seeing if there’s a way they can find work for me during the spring/summer (when there’s usually very little work.)

    I’m really happy about this but still feel like I need to keep in contact with the other organization – though I wouldn’t be starting there till next fall, and according to what I’ve heard they’ve had some chaos recently and I haven’t heard from them in a month, so it might not even be a possibility anymore. I will feel fairly guilty if I do end up leaving anyway, and a lot of what I decide to do is going to be based on what my current organization can do for me over the summer. But part of me is definitely kind of hoping the other organization never gets back to me so I don’t have to decide.

    It was funny during the meeting, because my direct supervisor was very much “never leave us, how can we keep you, we love you!” whereas the dept. chair was saying “we understand we can’t compete with full time and benefits, but we’ll do what we can.” I took it at face value at the time, but when I described this to someone else they thought the chair was doing it as a bargaining technique so I wouldn’t ask for as much!

    1. Enough*

      I think the department head soundings more like a reality check and reminder to supervisor there is a limit to what they can do.

  176. Dizzy*

    My husband and I are starting a small business, providing an event service. I provide the service itself and do bookkeeping, while he does the booking, outreach, and general schmoozing that would make me pull my hair out. He has a background in vintage comic and toy appraisals, and excels at putting the right people in touch with each other (ie, comic convention cross-promotion and establishing ties between businesses with common interests).

    He’d like a business card that reflects his position in our business, but that he can also give to people who are interested in hiring him for freelance appraisals and stuff.

    Can you guys help me think of a magical, all-encompassing title we can put on there? “Brand ambassador & freelance appraisal/consultant” just sounds clunky and….Brand Ambassador doesn’t feel right at all anyway.

    My title is just “Artist” if it matters.

    2. animaniactoo*

      My opinion: He should keep the two separate and not be trying to combine them all into one thing.

      If he does anything, he should have a separate card and e-mail address for the appraisals and note that it’s something he also does on a consulting basis if it becomes a natural avenue for those he’s talking to about event stuff.

      Trying to have both on one is more likely to come off as scattershot and not really focused and professional for the main business you’re trying to get off the ground.

      1. Dizzy*

        You know, that thought had been rattling around in the back of my brain, but I thought I was just being overly anxious. It’s not like it’s a terrible financial hardship for us to order two sets of cards.

        Thanks for validating that instinct!

  177. Nonny*

    Podcasts at work, yay or nay?
    I wear headphones, or rather one headphone so I can still listen for my boss or the phone. So far it’s really helping days pass quick!

    1. Sabrina Spellman*

      I’ve tried, but I found that I either don’t actively listen to it while working or it distracts me from my work.

    2. Manders*

      Podcasts get me through my day. I have a lot of repetitive tasks to do, and podcasts keep the desire to constantly be refreshing news/social media/chat sites at bay.

    3. Alex*

      I would literally die without my podcasts. Most of my work is routine and doesn’t require me to think much. I find that listening to something actually keeps me focused instead of stopping every few minutes to check my personal email or social media. Do what works for you.

    4. SarahTheEntwife*

      I love them for super-repetitive work. A lot of the time I have to keep one eye on a service desk that I’m supervising, but if I don’t I can tend to get a bit spacey if I’m just cleaning up spreadsheets or whatever and it’s nice to have something to keep me focused. It doesn’t work if I’m writing or doing anything requiring real brainpower.

    5. Murphy*

      I do it all of the time! I have to pause sometimes if I have to do in depth reading, but for the most part it’s fine.

    6. Snark*

      I find I can’t listen to a podcast and write (which is what I do all day, mostly) without totally tuning out the podcast.

    7. Curious Cat*

      Definitely depends on the podcast for me! A true crime podcast? No way, I need to be fully tuned in listening to that thing. But a light-hearted Q&A podcast? Definitely one I can tune in and out of.

    8. Elizabeth West*

      I can’t listen to podcasts while editing–it has to be music. Preferably instrumental. I did have the TV on while I was working from home at Exjob, but it was tuned to a regular afternoon marathon of Kitchen Nightmares, all of which I’d already seen, so I could ignore them. The low voices from the TV helped keep me from falling asleep, since it was much more quiet in my house than at work.

  178. Confused*

    Venting here because I don’t have many outlets for this right now and this is keeping me up all night.

    I posted here last week because I was concerned about hanging out with my coworker who I have a crush on over the weekend. I want to thank the people who responded, because they got it right. Hanging out with him would cause the crush just to get worse. We hung out with his friends and I think we both caught feels hard, even though nothing happened.

    For the record, no one at the office cared, except for one coworker (a friend to both of us outside of work) who wrote me a very sweet message about how obvious it was that we should be together and how she would be so happy for us if we did.

    I’m feeling a bit lost here. I keep thinking this through and wondering how I can make all this work. I’m not sure what would happen at my job if we actually did date. I could see them being good about it, and I can see them not being good.

    I just can’t believe myself. I broke up with my last boyfriend a few years ago because he was in the way of my career, and have been happily single and putting myself first ever since. Now I’m willing to take a risk with a coworker?! I never thought this would be me.

    I feel like I am on the verge of making the best or worst decision of my life and I actually don’t know which one it is.

    I’m probably overthinking as always, but I really appreciate having this place to get this out right now.

    1. dr_silverware*

      For the record, there are a lot of risks that are worth it to take, especially if there aren’t ethical issues involved.

      What a weekend that sounds like, though! When you’re in this kind of situation it can feel like worries and romantic feelings just swirl around and amplify each other infinitely.

      1. Confused*

        You are totally right on the risks. I am usually more of a risk taker, just not at work! I don’t think there are any true ethical considerations here – we’re on the same level and our jobs are independent of one another. I am more worried about my professional image (I don’t want to be thought of as the girl who sleeps around at work, even though that’s not me at all!) and all the gossip that inevitably comes in these situations. I really do love working where I do and don’t want to mess it up either.

        It was a wonderful day though. And yes oh man are all my feelings ever amplified right now.

        1. Thlayli*

          I doubt having one relationship with one person would make you “the girl who sleeps around”. Lots of people meet their partners through work.

          Why not ask him if he wants to date secretly for a while, take it reeeally slow and agree that after 4 dates (no sex) if you don’t think it’s going to go the distance you’ll just break up with no hard feelings and stay work-friends. If he’s not mature enough to accept that offer then fuggedaboudit.

    2. anon24*

      I had a co-worker best friend. After a bit, it was clear he was crushing on me pretty bad, and I told him, “sorry, don’t date co-workers, not gonna happen.” He was cool with that, and we continued being friends for a bit until I realized, “crap, I’m crushing bad too.” At the time I had just gotten a second job, and I was planning on slowly transitioning out of the job we both worked, so I finally admitted my feelings and we became an item, without letting anyone know at work. Long story short, I ended up coming back to that job after a few months for reasons unrelated to co-worker, and then we had to figure things out. We kept it super chill at work, told everyone we were best friends, and all was good for a few months until one of our co-workers decided that the two of us were “perfect” together and told co-worker “if you don’t go out with her you are making the worst mistake of your life”. Then he proceeded to talk to EVERYONE at work about how we HAD to start dating because we were so cute together. So we ended up admitting that yes we were dating. Boss sat me down, said look, I don’t care if you’re dating, don’t let it affect your job. I ended up staying at that job for awhile, co-worker left to go to college, we got married after he graduated, and have been happily married for almost 3 years :) It can work, but you have to set clear expectations about how work will be handled, how you will handle working together when you are fighting, etc. I loved working with him, but eventually it was nice when he went to school because it can be really hard some days to work with your significant other. Dating him was the total opposite of anything I would have ever done at the time, but I’m so glad I went with it and did, because I found my life partner. Go with your heart, but don’t forget to bring your brain along to handle the bumps.

      1. Confused*

        Thank you, this story makes me feel better! And congrats! It sounds like everything has worked out so well for you guys.

        1. mreasy*

          Also married to a former co-worker. Mutual crushes for a long time but we hesitated due to the work thing. If it feels like the right thing, go for it. Jobs are one thing, but love is entirely another. :)

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      TLDR version – Before you invest any more angst energy in worrying about should I/shouldn’t I – figure out if you CAN proceed at work, if you CAN proceed with this guy, then you can worry about if you WILL proceed.

      Do either of you report to the other, or is there a chance that could happen in the near future? If there’s any possibility of a reporting relationship, I’d give it a hard pass. If not, then start by answering the question: Does your company have an actual policy on dating in the organization? Quickly followed by figuring out if this guy also wants to proceed. I didn’t read your other post, but so from what you described above, you’re going off your own feelings and the feelings of a friend-who-is-not-the-guy. You should probably loop potential dating person into your decision making process fairly quickly. Once you have those questions answered, you can start worrying about if you want to proceed or not.

      2. Confused*

        Thank you!! I’ve been worrying about the can a lot as well. And yes, you’re right, I haven’t had this conversation with him and I really need to do that first.

    4. Specialk9*

      You’re totally overthinking it! But good for you for actually thinking about it, that’s good. You just shoulda stopped about 3 miles back. :D

      It’s not unethical to date a coworker (unlike manager-subordinate). It just has potential to get sticky. But plenty of people marry former or current co-workers. (One co-worker dated and married his roommate, which seems far riskier than coworker!)

      So – if you move forward together, put some rules in place, while knowing those aren’t a guarantee. Talk about how to act at work while dating, what a graceful no fault breakup would ideally look like if reality doesn’t match hopes, and how you’ll act at work after breakup (eg no scenes, weird emotional behavior, venting to coworkers).

      Go forth and snog in peace!

  179. Candlelight*

    We get tons of Crappy Boss stories here, so I thought I’d add a counterweight.
    This week I found out that a former leader on my team, who had already been transitioned out because of inability to perform as a PM but was still in the company’s hierarchy, was banned from the building by my awesome boss. Why? While trying to communicate with Boss through me, he became very rude to me over the phone. I passed along his message to her (just the meat of it, I didn’t want to bother her with rude dude details) and the last I heard of him was her statement that she was going to call him.

    I never thought much of it: he was already out of the building but now I realize he never came to visit again. Seems Rude Dude is banned from the building! :-)

  180. Quackeen*

    My manager just approved my time off request for my birthday. I haven’t been able to take my birthday off in at least 5 years. LOVE my new boss. WHOOT!

  181. Fishcakes*

    I have been really sick all year (new city, new germs) and had a couple of family emergencies. Now I have some mystery autoimmune thing going on and have been missing more work due to pain and medical appointments. I’m worried I’m going to be let go from my job. My manager is uncommunicative (she literally talks to me once every three months or so, and mostly ignores my questions, requests for meetings, etc.), which makes me more anxious.

    1. Dammit It Was Lyme All Along*

      I recently found out that I did actually have Lyme disease, despite my doctor ordering Western Blot tests multiple times, which were all negative. Turns out the lab is not allowed to do Western Blot unless your antibody test comes back in a certain range. So the dr thought I was getting Western, I was getting antibody. Since they missed Lyme for years, I got sick with a bunch of other things because my immune system was down.

      All a long way to say, check out a local integrative medicine doc. They’re MDs, so real doctors, who know about things like vitamins. (I know, out there woowoo stuff, right?) I had literally had about 60 tests done over years, and shrug – and this integrative medicine doctor nailed it right away.

      Good luck! I am kinda hoping for Lyme for you too.

  182. Anon the Contractor*

    So the government might shut down after today.. and if that happens we come in Monday for what’s called an “organized shutdown.” I’m told that means wrapping things up, but I’m not sure what it means in terms of the actual tasks we’ll be responsible for.. was anyone who reviewed travel authorizations or personnel packages around for the last shutdown?

  183. SarahTheEntwife*

    Does anyone have advice for developing more initiative or big-picture thinking at work? I’m trying to do the usual suggestions like looking at processes that take a lot of time or that are unclear and seeing if there’s any way to streamline them, but I usually just can’t really think of anything. Is this a skill that it’s possible to develop? When I’m really amazing at my job, it tends to be because I’ve been given a goal and materials and turned out way more/better finished Thing than expected from what I was given to work with. I’m a stacks librarian, and if you tell me we need more space in the science collection, I will pull space out of seemingly nowhere and it will involve glorious color-coded Excel sheets. If you tell me we need a broader plan for how to manage our collections now that we have an off-site storage building, I will get bogged down in details and not even know where to start. I will also probably not have realized that we should *make* a broader plan, even though I will definitely agree with you that we need one once it’s pointed out.

    This isn’t something that’s a huge problem for me in my current position, but I can tell that it’s probably holding me back in a larger professional sense, and it’s just a good life skill for grownup humans anyway.

    1. Oranges*

      I go for “What bugs me personally and how can I make that better?” Like I HATE our current code base with the heat of 10,000 suns (it made sense at the time but then things changed and… uuuugh). So I proposed changing it to something I think would work better.

      I have no clue exactly what I’m doing and that’s okay. I’m researching it. I’m gonna make some mistakes but anything is better than our current situation.

    2. stej*

      So there are multiple levels of initiatives/projects: step improvements which would effect the time/efficacy of a particular task, process improvements which increase the efficiency of a range of steps, and brand-new improvements that may be more like starting from scratch than modifying something that exists already.

      As you grow in role and responsibility, you will likely have to shift your perspective from each level. It’s like a spectrum of thought process. If you wanted to think of a whole new initiative, it’s a completely different way of thinking than fixing the way e-mails are formatted in newsletters, for instance.

      I’m working on this, too. Reading business-oriented articles from Inc and HBR have helped me start thinking more strategically. If you can’t think of a process, have you ever tried writing a whole list of your process? Timing yourself or your team during a process? Do you know your org’s mission and objectives? What does leadership care about and why do they care? Why should you care?

      Know yourself – how do you think? What do you work off of? I think and process based on past experiences, which is actually REALLY limiting when trying to think of brand-new ideas. Reading tons of ideas and projects from outside my field and industry can give me a deeper well to draw from. Brain-vomiting everything I can think of even if it sounds crazy can help exercise my mind and teach it to keep the ideas flowing.

    3. stej*

      Hm oops – I just realized I may have made the biggest mistake here which is not reading your response thoroughly.

      YES – bigger, vague projects are hard to contextualize. Start with examples: how do other libraries do it? What other orgs might do something like this (archives)? What are the big high-level things that need to get done? Now how do break that into chunks?

      This was actually my previous life as a process engineer, but it’s a skill that takes time.

    4. Jillociraptor*

      The root of this skill is understanding how your systems, processes and projects fit into the broader strategy of your organization. Some of that will be opaque to all but the highest level employees, but you should be able to articulate for yourself why your work exists for this organization and what the implications are for your success or failure. So, one thing you might start doing is, when you’re assigned a project, in addition to mapping out all of the action steps, also write out a few sentences about the purpose of the project. I don’t know a ton about stacks management, so this is more directional than specific, but perhaps it could look something like, “We are creating a management plan that includes our new offsite location so that we are able to procure all materials for our clients and constituents rapidly. Our role as a library is to empower the research of our constituents, so it’s key that constituents are able to receive all materials within 24 hours; therefore, we need a plan to locate and retrieve each item on the same day that we receive the request.”

      You can also build this skill by doing the same exercise when you hear of a new organizational change. Read the emails, go to the brown bags, talk to your supervisor and department head about their goals and what they’re working on. One of the best professional development opportunities I had was a manager who was willing to let me “side along” on some of her challenges, not really seeking my opinion or input, but letting me talk through some of my thinking and giving me feedback about what I was missing. If you can get that kind of coaching, it’s super valuable, though not all managers are willing to be that vulnerable.

      The more you’re able to articulate this connection between your organization’s purpose or mission and your immediate work, the easier it will become to notice that something higher level might need to be done, so tl;dr, seek out and create opportunities to practice connecting your work to higher level strategy.

    5. OtterB*

      From a different angle, you might look at the Julia Cameron book The Artist’s Way at Work. It takes some strategies for use by artists and applies them to unleashing your creativity at work.

    6. Why Oh Why Does this keep happening?*

      It’s only holding you back from jobs you probably wouldn’t like anyway.

      Is your boss the kind of person you can talk about career plans with? Could you say: “I’m a really detail-oriented and task-oriented person, and I’d like to find ways to use my innate strengths in other ways. Are there any projects I can be detailed to for a couple of hours a week?”

    7. LCL*

      Not answering your question, but, don’t sell yourself short. My job has too many big picture people. A person who can be given a task and organize it and make it better including leaving documentation to help others is invaluable. In my work group people like you are few and far between, and we need a couple more! Being able to do what you do is a very special talent. I’m more of a big picture person, and I am disorganized as efff.

  184. VermiciousKnit*

    How do you handle a co-worker who presumes you are a mind reader and consistently comes up to you and starts talking about a task or project without giving you any background information? This happens all the time, but today the example is that she sent me a list of internal websites comments about who to send each one to, but no information about why I needed to do so, what my role in the task needed to be, or what information I needed to ask each person for. (It turned out that an update to our servers had corrupted a random sampling of our pages and I needed to ask each person to review the content and let me know if it was wrong and needed to be restored from a back up.)

    This happens nearly every single time she comes to talk to me, and I never have any clue about what she’s talking about because she just launches straight into details (e.g., “ok so for those websites, X and Y go to Wakeen, but have Z and AA go to Fergus” without ever saying which “those websites” she referencing or what I/Wakeen/Fergus are supposed to be doing), presuming that you somehow magically know all the background information, even if she’s never spoken to you about the task before. If you ask her she’ll just give you a quick half-answer and jump right back into the details (“Which websites, for which project, Riddly?” “oh those ones with the corrupted server thing. As I was saying, X and Y….”)

    It is maddening and it prevents me from doing a good job with these tasks because I never have any real idea what she needs me to do, which leads to a lot of guessing and then not getting it right because I don’t have enough information.

    1. VermiciousKnit*

      *websites with comments.

      Also maddening is that usually the detailed information she gives me, like who is responsible for what page, are the things I would already know and don’t need direction on if she’d have given me the bigger picture first.

    2. Oranges*

      I do this. I have found it helps me when people say “back up some steps, what is this about?”

      1. designbot*

        I’m on the receiving end of this a lot and it’s usually because people don’t realize I handle a dozen projects at a time while they are on one or two. After talking to a couple of repeat offenders and giving them the big picture, that usually I work on 3+ projects a day, a dozen a week, and it’s just not possible for me to dive in as deep as they are, I’ve seen improvement.

      2. VermiciousKnit*

        I do stop her and ask her, but she’s usually so focused on the details she is hard to derail and back-up. Sometimes if I can I will ask her VERY specific questions “Which project are we talking about?” “What is my responsibility with this project?” I’ll get answers from her, but more often than not she just gives some vague, quick aside that doesn’t fully answer and go right back to her details.

        1. Oranges*

          Okay, that is vexing. Can you interrupt and say “That answer didn’t help (tactfully), please start by naming the project you’re talking about. I can’t understand the details you’re giving me without context”

          If she’s like me, she wants to get the details out while she still remembers them. Email is a gods send in this position. Tell her that any detailed instruction should be by email. Then when they don’t have enough ingo you can have a boiler-plate response of “What project is this about and what is my role in it” to be fired off. (Depending upon your work-place you might have to loop your boss in on this.)

        2. Observer*

          You’re going to have to get a bit more assertive with her. You need to ask her specific questions – each. and. every. time. And refuse to go further till she gives you a complete and usable answer. Each. and. every. time.

          It’s exhausting, and should not be necessary, but it’s better than not getting the information you need. Hopefully, if you keep doing this she’ll start getting the hint. But, if not, your next step is to tell her in person, followed up with an email, that you cannot do any task for her unless you have the following information and spell that out for her.

          Send the email so she has that list. And then continue to ask her for the information you need. Reference the list.

          Also, if you have a manager, and it’s really getting in the way of getting work done, you could go to them and ask about how to handle these requests.

    3. CM*

      This happens to me all the time too, but more because the nature of my job than because of any particular co-worker.

      First, have you talked to her about it overall? “Riddly, I have difficulty understanding what you’re talking about without context. Before you ask me a question, can you give me an overview of what the issue is, and some background?”

      If you’ve tried that, then just stop her and ask her all the questions you need. Just ignore the details until you have the info, and keep stopping her as needed. You may also try a blanket, “Before I can answer this question, I need to know X, Y, and Z.” I find that it takes some training, but you can get people to stop doing this by being persistent. (“Which websites, for which project, Riddly?” “oh those ones with the corrupted server thing. As I was saying, X and Y….” “Hold on. Which websites?” “Blah blah blah…” “Wait a minute. I still don’t understand which websites. Can you back up a moment and give me an overview? Pretend that I know nothing about this and explain it to me.”)

    4. Lynca*

      I went through this early in my career. The big thing I did was to not jump on the problem until I was sure of what needed to be done.

      “I see you gave me a website list but you don’t explain what you want done. Also which websites go to who? You mean the list that you gave me? I need to give Wakeen some instructions, but you haven’t provided those. You’re not explaining what you want done and I can’t work on it until it’s explained.”

      1. Why Oh Why Does this keep happening?*

        My favorite line is “I see your nouns here, but I don’t see any verbs. Can I have a verb please?”

        The other person isn’t always amused, but it works.

    5. Why Oh Why Does this keep happening?*

      I have a boss who does this!

      If it’s in an email you have your “paper trail” as proof that you’re not the problem employee.

      Can you send an email follow up with the details you’ve fleshed out in conversation? Something like “I want to be sure I understood what you told me today….” could work as a CYA.

      Have you tried actually pointing out this habit to her? She just be one of those people who’s brain gets on a train and just picks up people along the way. She may never be able to see things from another person’s point of view, but at least you can ask her to try.

    6. LCL*

      I didn’t know my mom got a job! Seriously, that is her conversation style. You just have to interrupt and ask ‘what are you referring to?’ She always laughs and apologizes and says ‘oh, I forgot you can’t read my mind.’

  185. lala*

    Question: My boss and I need to meet with my assistant next week to go over some performance issues she has been having. That is going to happen next Friday at 11. Do I email my assistant now to tell her about the meeting or wait until mid next week? What do I say the meeting is about in my email? The reason we are waiting a week is to see if there is any change in behavior after I (briefly) spoke very seriously about a performance issue yesterday.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      I have no managerial experience, but I’d wait and see if after your talk she improves on her own and send an email midweek.

    3. EA*

      Others can disagree- but I wouldn’t give her a heads up. I would just ask her right before to come to the meeting.

      I think it adds too much anxiety and her wondering what the meeting is about.

      If I am understanding, was your discussion telling her she needs to improve? If so, maybe give her more like 2 weeks? Unless the meeting will be about other issues as well.

      1. lala*

        It wasn’t a planned conversation – I was caught off guard by some basic aspects of her job that she failed to do. And so after I scrambled to get the necessary things done, she came in (late) and I asked what happened? She didn’t know what I meant and didn’t really have an answer for why things were not done. I didn’t specifically say, you need to improve. She has been in the job for about 3 months and it involves doing the same tasks over and over for different programs. She is really inconsistent with which tasks she does for each program. She literally should be doing the same tasks every time. And yes, she has a check list in addition to a job task manual. And there are other issues to discuss as well – all similar. All can be boiled down to, I need you to do your job each and every time. When I’ve had these conversations before, she says okay and that she understands, but then something else is not done or not done correctly. Frustrating – hence why my boss is getting involved.

        1. EA*

          Yea, so it seems like you have really had multiple conversations with her. I can see why you are escalating it to her boss.

          I still say just call her into the conference room at 11, but that is what I would prefer (so I didn’t obsess endlessly). You could also tell her Friday morning, if you are worried she might be away from her desk/busy (I’m not sure how many meetings she has, but I assume not so many)

          Also – in unsolicited advice, I would try and get to the bottom of what her issue is. Like does she forget? Get tasks mixed up? Does she get overwhelmed and then doesn’t do it right? Is it an organization issue? Not that it changes the main issues and your concerns, but it can be helpful to see.

        2. Argh!*

          Do you have a probationary system? (3 month review, 6 month review, etc?)

          You can tell her that you need to meet with her for her 3-month review, and then at the last minute add that your manager will also be there. She would probably have no idea that’s not the way things are normally done.

          But… that’s dishonest so you could just say “we need to meet,” and set up the time without saying anything else. Staking a claim on her time shouldn’t be scary. It’s something bosses have a right to do.

      2. cactus lady*

        I disagree with this – I don’t think these things should be a surprise. Especially not if she is really early in her career (I got one of these surprise meetings early in my career about stuff I didn’t realize I wasn’t doing because I was never told it was part of my job, and it left a really sour taste in my mouth about that company). Something I have noticed over the years is that sometimes, training isn’t quite adequate, but the mistakes don’t start showing up for months or longer because the person has a firm grasp on other aspects of the role. She might not realize that these were in fact mistakes (even though it’s obvious to you and it sounds like her job is pretty basic). I would have mentioned “X and I would like to meet with you to chat further about this next week” at the end of that conversation, so that she understands it’s a serious thing that you are really looking at.

  186. Junebug*

    Is it a good idea to come to work sick but not contagious? I have chronic fatigue syndrome and I’m going through a flare right now. These can last for weeks with bad days mixed in with impaired-but-functional days. My job is easy enough that being sick doesn’t affect my performance, but I’m noticeably out of it to anyone interacting with me, which usually happens a couple times a day. Am I damaging my reputation by coming in sick like this? I’m not eligible for fmla and I have immediate family in 4 states, so is rather not disclose or use up my pto if I can avoid it. Should I keep doing what I doing or call on the rougher days?

    1. Why Oh Why Does this keep happening?*

      I have FML and there have been times when my brain fog means I can’t work at all. I’ll literally just sit and stare at my computer screen until I realize I have to go home.

      Is your job easy as in entry-level and lots-of-other-jobs-like-it? In that case, risking being let go is not that big of a deal. If you’re not eligible for FMLA because you work for too small of a business, it might be worth looking for a bigger one before work really does start to slip.

  187. Working Hard*

    I’m in a position where it’s way way way better than my previous job, I like my team most days, I really like my company, and there is an opportunity to internally transfer for more interesting work.

    But I got rejected internally a few months ago and I wonder if I’ve improved enough to apply again and actually get the role I want.

    I don’t want to leave the company, but I’m getting overwhelmed with work and losing interest in what I have. My manager has dragged her feet on promoting me from the junior level even though I carry the entire department’s technical needs alone. It is demoralizing to keep being told to wait – for a promotion, or even another person to share the load – by a manager who is otherwise fairly competent.

    I don’t want to leave, but when do you know that it’s time?

      1. Working Hard*

        Yes, she isn’t technical and wants to seek a technical manager’s advice on my true level. We have worked out a set-up where I sit in the other office intermittently to work and I talk with the other manager about my work (to both address my need for more technical guidance and also for him to get a sense of my level, I suppose).

        It’s been a month of this set-up, but I’ve been asking for a promotion for several months. I’m just getting tired of waiting and growing more tired of the work itself.

        I stay because realistically an internal transfer would be ideal, and maybe one of the few ways I could move into a role I really want. I don’t have (or I don’t think I have) the chops to cold-interview elsewhere for the same role, and I have a network where I am that knows me and is at least impressed enough to interview me for the first transfer I wanted.

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          I don’t have (or I don’t think I have) the chops to cold-interview elsewhere for the same role, and I have a network where I am that knows me and is at least impressed enough to interview me for the first transfer I wanted.

          Don’t let fear hold you back from moving forward. You have no way of knowing whether you can get the kind of job you want until you start applying for them. I wasted a year of my life worrying about the what ifs and whether or not I could do anything else outside of my company, but guess what? I ended up in a job doing exactly the kind of thing I wanted to do. Start applying for things externally and see what your options are.

    2. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      Start looking. They’re taking advantage of you, whether they realize it or not. Doesn’t hurt to look.

  188. NylaW*

    Our CEO just announced that our org is in such bad shape that there are no raises, no cost of living adjustments, and no 401K matching. Seven years and no change in my pay because I was capped in my pay grade. Last year I finally made a lateral move to a position with a higher pay grade and still no raise.

    1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      Are you job hunting? I would be. Aggressively. If nothing else, if they’re in that bad of shape, there’s no guarantee that the company won’t fold.

  189. definitely anon*

    A little late, but I have something I would like to ask advice on. I have a crush on my coworker. A big crush. I have never felt like this before and I have fallen for her hard. The things is, she is 100% straight, not interested in women and is monogamous relationship with a man. We share an office and work closely. There is no option not to share an office or work together less because of our work. Finding another job is not easy. I have been looking but the market here sucks. I temped for over 3 years before I got this job. It is a union job with good health insurance, a pension, it is stable and permanent because it is union. Given how it is here it would be nuts for me to give this up. Most people I know who work here tried for years to find a job in this market before they got in here. I’m not qualified for any other jobs or departments at this company. I have a mortgage too and need an income. My heart jumps whenever I see her. What do I do? I can’t leave but I need to get over this. Things were weird when I had asked her out 5 months and 2 months ago and are just getting back to normal. I have never crushed this hard before and could use some help please.

    1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      Captain Awkward has had a couple posts about this I know, recommend her site. And whatever you do, DON’T ask her out again.

      1. Courtney*

        Seriously. Asking out a coworker for our share a office with is not a great idea. Doing it when they’re in a committed relationship is really just disrespectful. And doing it TWICE shows absolutely no consideration for your crush’s feelings. It’s selfish. Putting someone else in an uncomfortable, awkward spot beecause you can’t get your feelings under control. You may not be able to control the fact that you have a crush on her, but the fact that you’ve asked her out twice blows my mind. Super not okay.

    2. PuppiesKittensIceCream*

      As the other commenter said, do not ask her out again whatever you do. Please keep in mind that even though you have feelings for her, she still deserves to be treated professionally in her place of work. When you have a crush, all it means is you find someone attractive and intriguing. That is it. It doesn’t mean that you are meant to be with this person, that they are “the one,” that if you got to know them better or even started a relationship with them that it would work out or that you are compatible. So you may not be able to change your feelings right now of attraction towards her, but if you think of it like: “it is what it is” then you can move past it and have a good working relationship with her. Remember too that she is not available to you romantically, and has already turned down your advances. She is just a coworker and nothing more.

    3. Reba*

      Advice from Carolyn Hax a while back to someone almost exactly in your shoes: don’t try to stop thinking about her (clearly impossible) but when you do think of her, force yourself to imagine not the fantasy of wonderfulness but instead the mundane, annoying, and unattractive. Flossing. Saying unkind things about your friends. Singing along badly to horrible music she likes. Deflate the infatuation.

      Are you otherwise dating/getting out there, is a relationship something you are interested in?

      1. Triple Anon*

        Yeah. I think you almost need to think about the person more, not less. I mean mentally work through the crush.

        Those feelings of infatuation don’t last forever (usually). If you know someone long enough, the sparkly “Crush!” feeling tends to either fade or mature into a deeper kind of love, more similar to what you feel for close friends and family members. And you can probably work with someone while really caring about them. You just need to mentally sort through your feelings until they move from the excitement phase to the general caring phase.

        Meanwhile, I would be careful to remain professional and respect her space. Crushes can cloud people’s judgment a bit. Think twice about how you’re acting around her so you can avoid that. And if you’re finding it hard to be professional, I think that looking for another job is a good option. But hopefully you can get through this.

        Good luck!

    4. The IT Manager*

      I don’t think the answer is to find a new job; it is to get over the crush. Actively work on that. The advice listed above is a good start.

    5. Thlayli*

      The best way to get over one person is to get under another in my experience. I’ve also heard advice I’ve never tried but might work – sleep with at least 10 other people and see if you still feel the same about her.

  190. Little Miss Charitycase*

    I interviewed (for the final round) for a job yesterday and I am so so anxious to hear back! How do you all deal with job offer anxiety?

    1. Luna Lovegood*

      Try and keep yourself in the mindset of “I’ve done all I can do/it’s in the lap of the Gods now/ que sera sera”. Easier said than done, I know.
      Focus on doing things that you enjoy for the next few days/until you hear back.
      Good luck!

    2. HappyButSad*

      I’m in the same boat! Interview was yesterday. They emailed today to ask for references. Now, I wait. Sending happy weekend vibes your way! May we have so much fun this weekend that we forget all about what we can’t control.

    3. Buddythefox*

      I’m in the same spot as well! Wish I had some advice, but I can definitely commiserate. Well done getting to the final stage!

      1. Jenn*

        Thank you! I have a lot of questions, but of course don’t feel like you have to answer them all! I’m grateful for any insight.
        – Generally, what’s work/life balance like across the field?
        – Do you think it’s better to work in-house or at an agency?
        – I’ve seen a mix of salary, commission, and salary+commission: is there one pay structure that is more common than the others?
        – What’s the number one trait or skill that you think someone needs to succeed as a recruiter?

  192. Asking for a friend*

    How do you find a reputable head hunter? Are they different from recruiters? Do they charge you or is like a recruiter where the company pays them or something like 1% of your salary goes to the HH for a year?

    1. CAA*

      Head hunter is just a slang term for recruiter, though it used to be used more for recruiters who found top executives rather than lower level talent. If you are searching for a new job, you should never pay the recruiter. If anyone asks you for money, that’s a scam. The company who hired the recruiter pays a percentage of your salary as the fee.

      The thing about recruiters is that they work for the company who’s paying them, not for you. So they want to make the best match possible for their clients, and as a result, they don’t usually have your best interests as their primary concern. You can establish relationships with recruiters by applying for jobs that they are advertising on their own websites or on the usual job sites, LinkedIn, etc. Generally they’ll hang onto your resume and keep you in mind for future openings. Don’t limit yourself to a single recruiter or agree to an exclusive relationship.

  193. Adlib*

    I need to vent.

    My boss just got back from his month-long holiday to his family in Australia. Upon our check-in when he got back, he asked me about an email he got. Said email was from our company’s 2 marketing directors who were asking him about things that *I* could do better as part of my job. I explained to him what they were talking about after he told me what was in the email. I do not report to them (thankfully), and I literally have an office next door to one of them. I meet with them monthly on the system I manage. No, they had to go around me and ask my boss. So instead of approaching it normally/professionally and just asking me (and cc-ing my boss, if they wanted), they’ve managed to tick both me and my boss off. I am so tired of them and don’t trust them any farther than I can throw them. UGH.

  194. Louise*

    Anyone have any advice for dealing with grief at work?

    My great uncle (who was the closest I had to a grandparent) passed semi-suddenly last night and I am just in a fog. My manager is incredibly understanding and said they’d work to get me some personal days so that I can travel for the funeral, but it’s a busy season for us and I want to get as much done before I leave for a few days. Any advice on how to stay focused when things feel so sucky?

    1. AnitaJ*

      I’m so sorry for your loss. I was in the same spot a few months ago; my uncle died very suddenly and the floor just opened underneath me. I gave (and still give!) myself permission to just cry at work sometimes when I couldn’t keep it together. Luckily I’m in a back corner so nobody bothers me, but if the culture is OK for this in your office, step into the bathroom and just take those 5 minutes for yourself. Or stare off into space for a few minutes. If people know you’re grieving, they will hopefully be supportive of you.

      Also, don’t expect your output to be 100%. Give what you can give and don’t beat yourself up for not doing more/not keeping it together/not being chipper all the time. I feel for you. You can do it.

    2. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      Narrow down the tasks into the bare minimum that is needed to be successful. Then give yourself permission to stop when you reach it. If you feel like you can do more after reaching that point? Fantastic. Take another one. But don’t push yourself.

      This is how I got through EVERYTHING after my dad died. In the immediate aftermath just physically sitting up in the morning meant the day was a success. When I went back to work (and my boss did tell me that if I needed to leave early at any time I could), success for the day was just turning my computer on. That was it. Once I did that, then success for the day was opening my email. And on and on. It’s not terribly efficient, but it is effective. Instead of having to face the whole day, you only have to stare down teensy little pieces at a time.

    3. Why Oh Why Does this keep happening?*

      What if you were the one who died suddenly? What would happen to your work? That’s what should happen to your work today. Take the day off to grieve and leave your work to your coworkers.

      I’m sorry for your loss. I have experienced sudden loss too, and it sucks.

    4. Anonymoussssssssss*

      I would give yourself some slack, first of all. I’m sorry you are in this much grief. I have found when I don’t have the mental headspace for work due to grief or other factors that it helps to write down what absolutely has to be done, top priority stuff, and then go down the list one at a time. Don’t beat yourself up if you don’t get it done. Takes of breaks. Wear comfortable clothing. Be gentle on yourself. You’ll feel better soonish and then you can get the rest of your list done. Hope this helps.

  195. Probably Nerdy*

    I’m in Schrodinger’s office dating relationship, anyone have any advice for me?

    In a nutshell, I work for a very large employer in a very small town, and I started dating a guy who also works here, but with whom I never ever work, and no one in my department ever works with anyone in his department. I do vanilla teapots and he does orange french presses. Dating and married couples are also normal for the culture and very common given the area. And I’m aware of all drawbacks and precautions, etc. I met him outside of work.

    Well, work tasks here tend to get handed out by nepotism and social networking (totally dysfunctional and terrible). And Boyfriend’s background is in hot water receptacle design, so now everyone in my vanilla teapot department remembered that he exists, and suddenly is sending work over to him, so now I have to work with my boyfriend, which NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED had we not started dating!!!

    – How do I tell people to buzz off when they ask me what his work schedule is like this week? (how should I know, ask him)

    – Can I refuse to work on projects with him? (I can’t really turn down work…)

    – How can I deflect blame and culpability in the event of any job dissatisfaction issues?

    – How can we get people to stop using us as a courier service for each other? “Tell him I said…”

    – WHAT IF WE BREAK UP!!!!

    Additional info: we are military which may explain some of the preceding weirdness.

    2. animaniactoo*

      “Pardon, the most I can do is tell him you want to talk to him. Outside of that we have a strict rule not to be messengers for each other since we don’t actually work together and don’t want to risk getting the message wrong.”

      It’s clunky but if you keep saying it eventually people will start picking up on it and stop trying to use you as messengers for each other. Can also apply to “Pardon but I don’t have the details of his schedule, you’ll have to ask him directly” and as many other places as you don’t want to play go-between.

      If you do work on the same project, make sure neither of you is reporting directly to the other or are the only two who are working on it. Raise the flag “Conflict of Interest”.

    3. Luna Lovegood*

      It might be an idea to have a conversation with him about how you will behave at work if you break up. Not a pleasant conversation, I realise, but probably a good one to have so that you’re both on the same page for this kind of stuff.

  196. AnonAndOn*

    Weekly unemployment support thread: How are things going for you? Feel free to ask for advice, vent, or share your stories about working towards getting back into the workforce here.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        I am so sorry to hear that. I truly hope that things start looking up for you in your job search.

    2. nep*

      Thanks.
      Somehow I’m heartened when I see a couple / few job announcements that match my skill set well. It gets me thinking — well at least there are some potential leads out there and I can continue applying.
      I’ve always got to dismiss the part of me that’s saying, ‘What’s the use?’
      I know I’ve got a couple strikes against me but I can’t dwell on those. Just have to keep at it.
      All the best, fellow job-seekers.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        “I’ve always got to dismiss the part of me that’s saying, ‘What’s the use?’”

        That’s the hard part for me too. It does seem like I’ll never be working again and at times I lack the motivation to apply to anything, but I have to remember not to give up.

        I hope you find something soon too.

    3. Asperger Hare*

      This is a very welcome thread. Thank you.

      I’ve had one rejection, and have two interviews coming up: one this week and one next. I have just realised that I’m getting complacent and assuming that I’ll get one of those jobs and haven’t been looking since I got each of those interviews.

  197. Luna123*

    On Monday my boss (“Jane”) fired all of her staff, including me, via email with no warning when she found out that we were IM-ing each other during work hours. Jane always said she got distracted when we talked to each other — even about work! — so we decided that a private IM group without her knowledge would be a good alternative. Uh, I guess it was not.

    In addition to firing us, Jane has
    – said that she contacted a place I used to volunteer and told them about what happened “so you likely can’t go back there again,”
    – texted my mother about how hard it would be for me to get another job,
    – has repeatedly told me that she’ll fight me if I try to file for unemployment, and told me not to put this job on my résumé (I was there for a year and a half, I’m not going to do that), and
    – is banning anyone else at her company from giving me a reference. I reached out to the principal broker who reviewed most of my work in the first place and asked if he would be a reference, but he forwarded the email to Jane without comment. She replied to me and said that all requests for reference would go through her because she was my direct supervisor. It’s a little disappointing that he did that instead of just saying that he didn’t want to be my reference, but oh well.

    I did get in touch with my former boss at the organization where I used to volunteer. She said she’d gladly be a reference and encouraged me to apply for an opening they had, which was heartening, even if I’m not interested in the job.

    What the heck do I do now?

    1. HR Rep*

      What the heck! Is Jane the owner of the company? If not, I’m not sure how a reasonable employer would let her get away with firing all of her staff let alone via email! Unless there was something inappropriate going on in those IM’s. Have you tried to reach out to Jane and explain to her why you were IM-ing. She may be changing her tune now that she’s having to do the work of an entire department herself.

      As far as applying to jobs goes I’d put the job on your resume but tell potential employers that you’d prefer they not contact that employer (when asked). Use your references from your volunteer job, or anyone you worked with left the company before Jane went crazy.

      1. Lynca*

        I wouldn’t reach out when she is texting the employee’s mom to antagonize them. Someone that doesn’t want employees to talk about work during work has issues that probably can’t be reasoned with. I would focus on moving on (and collecting unemployment).

      2. Luna123*

        Yep, Jane and her husband are the owners. In the year and a half I’ve been there she’s gone through 8 admin (plus I heard of another one before me, so nine admin in under 2 years), and turnover for a position is usually three to six months.

        Looking back over the IMs, we did say stuff like we thought her formerly-rejected idea to make some of the agents do cold calls was dumb, that her marketing materials looked tacky, and I was pretty steamed when, after saying she’d cover me so I could take a few days off to go out of state for a funeral, Jane then asked to come with my family and I on the eight-hour car ride because she knew someone the next town over, but I just kept saying “Who does that???” and not any cursing. Other than that, it was mostly normal chatty stuff, but in her email Jane was enraged that we were “stealing from the company” by, essentially, talking to each other during downtime.

        Honestly, it’s a huge relief because she never had anything positive to say about anyone, even her SIL, the sweetest person on earth who is pouring hundreds of hours into managing and training the agents (Jane couldn’t handle people relying on her and hated hand holding; funny that she almost exclusively hired brand-new agents) for a tiny commission-based paycheck.

    2. fposte*

      Wow. Jane is a loon, and I’m sorry this happened to you.

      Go ahead and file for unemployment, obviously, and discourage your mother from text-warring from Jane if she’s so inclined. Apologize to the volunteer org for Jane getting loon crap on them and say you look forward to seeing them on your next volunteer shift.

      You already did the thing I’d recommend by going to your former boss for a reference; the place you currently volunteer may also be a good source, though I’d wait a few weeks to ask until the Jane incident dies down just in case.

      1. Adlib*

        Yes, file for unemployment. Every employer I know of fights it when they can. They say that and then don’t show up to the hearing (by phone in my state) when you don’t back down. It was really no big deal when it happened to me. It seems states are inclined to side with the employee in most cases.

    3. HR Rep*

      Forgot to add this may be a blessing in disguise. Because what type of toxic boss text’s your mom?

      1. Luna Lovegood*

        Indeed! The only advice I had was to breathe a sigh of relief that you don’t work for Jane any more…

    5. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Wow, Jane is terrible. Were there signs before this that she was unhinged or was this out of the blue?

      Were the IMs just normal work stuff, or was it anti-Jane? (She’s totally out of line here regardless, but I’m curious!)

      1. Luna123*

        We did use the thread to vent about how she ran her company sometimes and her taste in graphic design, but I don’t think we didn’t call her names or anything. Honestly, if we hadn’t IM’d and just said what we were thinking quietly to each other, it probably wouldn’t have been a big deal.

        Jane is very emotion-driven. When she was upset with her personal assistant for taking two minutes during his lunch break to draw a cat picture and make it an absent coworker’s desktop background as a prank, she let him go him the next business day (he did have nothing to do and had an idea that he was going to be laid off eventually, but she kept telling us about the cat picture as if it was some huge moral failing). She also flip-flops a lot — after a coworker left (he got a better job! literally the only one who was not let go in some way!), a coworker (Sansa) volunteered to take over his job in addition to hers if she got a raise, too. Jane promised it would happen, then over the weekend let Sansa go and told me it was because Sansa was asking for too much money. So I knew that she was a bad boss, but as I was somehow always on Jane’s good side until now and all the rest of the people and agents I worked with were great, I thought I could deal with Jane.

        2. Natalie*

          What??? This woman is BANANAS.

          File for unemployment for sure – the Janes of the world like to think they have a lot of sway, but outside of their little fiefdoms usually nobody cares what they think – and best of luck finding another job.

    6. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Are you in contact with any of the other terminated staff? Could you serve as references for each other? I know that supervisor refs are generally preferred, but under these circumstances, at least it would be something.

      1. Luna123*

        Yep, all three of us are in contact, and we’ve all said that we’d be references for each other. I will say this about Jane: she does hire great people.

    7. Alton*

      Wow. Jane is ridiculous, and I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.

      For the future, I think it’d probably be good to be careful about criticizing a manager in written workplace communications, because even if you don’t say anything too bad, it’s safer to assume it won’t stay private. But Jane’s reaction here is ridiculously over-the-top, and it’s clear she has a history of overreacting to anything that displeases her. And it doesn’t sound like the content of your IMs were even the main issue for her.

      I would file for unemployment.

      1. Luna123*

        Yeah, it’s definitely a learning experience and not something I’m going to do in the future :)

        And I have now filed for unemployment!

    8. Observer*

      Unless Jane is the owner, please go above her. You may not be able to get the firing rescinded, but you might get some reasonable behavior on the matter of unemployment and references.

      Do you have a copy of the firing email? And the other stuff as well? It will be QUITE useful when you apply for unemployment.

  198. Making Out with Dogs*

    Just curious how people handle cold sales emails. I get a lot from companies I’ve never heard of. Half the time I don’t even know if they are legit so I just delete them. Recently I got one that included a video of the sales person making out with her dog. WTF! She didn’t want to send the “typical” cold email. LOL

    Now she keeps emailing me asking if I enjoyed the video and when do I want to schedule a sales call with her….I guess I better just email her back. But part of me is afraid she will know I’m actually reading this emails and start sending even more.

    1. fposte*

      You absolutely do not need to email the lady who made out with her dog.

      These are almost certainly form-created, with any customization done by a utility; they are not a personal connection and you do not need to treat them as if they were. I have the advantage of being at a university that doesn’t do business that way, so those that don’t get caught in the spamtrap get ignored or personally junked. I recommend you do the same.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        You absolutely do not need to email the lady who made out with her dog.

        This is a sentence I never thought would be said.

    2. stej*

      UHM that is highly weird and not a great way to make a first impression. Can you block her? Don’t respond.

      1. Making Out with Dogs*

        I’m embarrassed to say I was so taken aback by the video that I forgot to hit block. Done now! Some how it had gotten through my spam filters. She’s pretty determined. I’m sure she’ll find a new email to send me emails of her and her lover, I mean dog.

    3. animaniactoo*

      I am pretty much never the person they should be directed to. So I’ve asked the people they should be directed to, and been instructed to delete without further comment. As much as I can I’ve written filters to block the worse offenders and send them directly to the trash.

      This actually gave me the confidence recently when somebody actually phone c0ld-called me to say to them “I’m not the right person and the fact that you don’t know that I’m not the right person means I’m not comfortable passing you to the person who is.” He seemed to realize there was nowhere he was going to get with me and just said “Okay”, we wished each other a good day and hung up.

    4. NGL*

      I always delete cold call emails. Particularly egregious ones get shamed on Twitter (never mentioning names). They get one follow up where they’re just deleted, and then I start blocking (or, if their follow ups are particularly passive aggressive, I mark as junk, because of course there’s never an unsubscribe link, and I’m not taking the time to email back to ask to be removed from the list)

  199. NK*

    Does anyone have suggestions for how to network with people at your company that you’d like to get to know better for future opportunities to join your team? I’m a manager, and my boss has suggested I reach out to a few specific people (lower than me in the organization) for coffee talks/career chats, as we anticipate some openings in the next few months. Some of them I know fairly well, others not so much. I’m such an awkward networker – anyone have tips on how to approach them in an email?

    1. Just a thought*

      It might be better to mention it to them in person if you can, then follow up with an email. Not everyone is great with email and it will be easier to read their reaction in-person.

      1. NK*

        Yeah, that would be easier, but these aren’t people I typically see in the regular course of business, so swinging by their desk would be a little odd. Also, while I have talked to most of them, the one my boss is the most keen on me connecting with is someone I don’t know at all.

  200. Luna Lovegood*

    I’ve decided to start teaching myself web design…
    It’s very interesting so far, just learning about CSS.
    Anyone have any tips?

    1. Jillociraptor*

      I taught myself web design as a teenager, mostly by looking at the underlying code for websites I liked, and trying to parse out how it worked. I know web design is much more complicated now, but it might still be useful! You can right-click in a web page and select “View Page Source” to see the code for the whole page, or “Inspect” to just see the code of whatever you’re mousing over.

      1. Luna Lovegood*

        I have been doing that, and it’s partially interesting and “oooh, that makes sense now”, and partially mind-boggling at this stage – I’ve not learned very much yet so it all looks like so much jargon until I stumble across a small section I recognise. Still fun, though.

        1. copy run start*

          This, keep this up! The key to anything in tech is understanding the underlying tech.

          Also, keep it simple when you’re starting. You can make a basic webpage using a folder on your PC and Notepad. (Though I strongly recommend downloading Notepad++.)

    2. Triple Anon*

      You might already be doing these things, but here are mine:

      1) Make something live and test it on different devices with different browsers. Then you’ll learn with an intuitive understanding of how things work where.

      2) Look up job postings at forward-thinking tech companies. Note what languages are in demand and learn those.

      3) Learn multiple ways of doing the same thing. Often, you’ll have to choose the best way to do something out of several options.

      But it’s really easy, right? It’s like learning a foreign language, but very simple and logical.

  201. Caelyn*

    Just wanted to share some good news and praise for AAM!

    I interviewed for a job last week that I really wanted, but was afraid I wasn’t going to get. It was a pretty big career change, one that I’ve been wanting to make but haven’t found the right opportunity yet. So I went to the interview and had written down the questions from Alison’s recent post. When I asked the question about “how would you measure the success of the person in this position?”, both my interviewers were surprised and told me it was a great question, and later told me that no one they’d interviewed before me had asked anything at all! I was pretty confident when I left and they said they’d get back to me on Tuesday.

    8:45am on Tuesday: phone call and job offer! I have no doubt that Alison’s great advice and my slight AAM obsession were the deciding factors.

    1. Adlib*

      Awesome! I agree that Alison’s questions are amazing. Interviewers are always surprised/impressed. I didn’t get the last job I applied for where I asked that, but I did get to the 2nd interview.

  202. Foreign Octopus*

    I was wondering if there are any translators here?

    Now that my Spanish is reaching a reasonable level (not fluent-fluent but I can speak normally and with few errors even if I do get nervous and sweaty), I’m starting to look at jobs that require language skills. I came across an article about Deborah Smith, the literary translator of The Vegetarian by Han Kang and it got me thinking about literary translation.

    Does anyone have any experience of working in literary translation or translation in general?

    I’d also love to hear from people who use languages in their jobs to help me with ideas about moving away from ESL teaching.

    1. Chocolate Teapot*

      Just after I graduated (Modern Languages) I took on a few small translation jobs, things like brochures or letters, as something to do whilst looking for full-time permanent work. What I found (and this was nearly 20 years ago!) was that it was easier to get a job as a native english speaker abroad than working in the UK with other languages. For example, there was a job in a call centre dealing with customers from all over the world, but they wanted native speakers for clients from a particular country.

      1. Foreign Octopus*

        I’ve noticed the call centre thing! I live in Spain but not one of the big cities. Think half the size of Oxford. In Madrid and Barcelona there are loads of call centre jobs for native English speakers.

        I am looking out for small translation jobs so I can build a portfolio (and see if I like it) but I’m really just looking to move away from teaching while still being able to work from home. I feel I’ll have to combine the two.

    2. Triple Anon*

      I speak a few languages, but not well enough to be a translator. So far, it’s been a good bonus thing to put on my resume. There are a lot of jobs out there where they want someone bilingual. I think it can give you an edge in most industries, especially if you’ll be working with customers or clients or just doing business internationally.

    3. kw10*

      I work in international development (USAID contractor) and use my Spanish every day. Our field offices in Latin America do almost all of their day to day work in Spanish so I’ve had to learn not just specific vocab for the subject matter, but also all kinds of administrative vocab about budgeting, grant management, regulations, HR/benefits/hiring, etc. I will say that to be hired for translation (even into English) I think you’d need to be truly fluent, not just able to get by in everyday conversation.

    4. Kuododi*

      One of my specialties as a clinician is in bilingual mental health care. Because of that, I have also become quite experienced as an interpreter for psychiatric evaluations, general medical care and case management. Ive done some document translation for mental health clinics. (Release of information, intake forms etc) On another note I have some experience as a legal interpreter for depositions and family court hearings just as a way to make extra cash. By far my primary specialty is in bilingual healthcare service.

  203. ImALittleTeapot*

    I am in my early forties, have a Bachelor’s in English and political science, a minor in history, finished pre-vet coursework, yet could not afford to go to vet school, and I am now studying computer programming and web design at a two-year college. The only job I have ever really had is in a business office doing accounts payable. Am I qualified for *anything* or will I be stuck in this line of work forever? I am not sure the computer courses will be of much use. I’d love to go to grad school, yet I’m tired of paying college loans, and there is no point in going if that won’t improve my job prospects. Any suggestions?

    1. Thlayli*

      It doesn’t sound like you have any actual qualifications yet. Why did you choose those subjects in the first place? What sort of job were you hoping to get: teaching, working in politics??? Do you still want it? Do you need another qualification to do it (like teaching) or just need to apply for junior roles and work you way up (like politics)?

      Figure out where you want to go first, then what you need to go there (qualification, junior experience), then work out steps to get from where you are now to where you want to be.

      Also I just want to say that everyone I know who got an arts degree either went on to get another qualification or is unemployed, so well done for even getting a job at all! That’s a pretty good achievement.

  204. Anon Accountant*

    Yes! Been waiting for this post!
    Question: how do you best motivate people to become proactive and take responsibility for projects at work and their career?
    Background: I oversee day-to-day activities of a small team at an accounting firm. My role involves coaching the staff, helping them grow their skills, review and their work, assign new work, and so on. I’ve spent all my career at this firm, but this role is rather new (1.5yrs).
    Everybody on this team is rather quiet (very nice people, just not the life of the party). Our profession requires late hours during busy season but can be – in my experience – a really interesting and rewarding career. I’d like to see some of my team members become more proactive in managing their deadlines and workloads, including asking for work if it looks like they’ll be slow, planning to stay late over busy season so they can get the work done and meet their hourly requirements (also so they can get their bonus) and be more proactive in identifying issues.
    What I’ve done: we have weekly meetings to discus workload, I try to make sure they work on the same clients so they have familiarity with the client and build a relationship. When they have questions I try to help them figure out the answer rather than telling them, and we have started having regular training meetings where everybody comes prepared and we discuss a topic. I am seeing 2 people who are progressing very well, and starting to take on more responsibility, and grow in their roles. The 3 others seem to be struggling a little more and haven’t notably progressed.
    Would love to hear some perspectives, tips, ideas – whatever you have!
    I’d love to be able to help everybody on the team progress and be successful. At the same time I’m trying to make sure I’m not a micromanager (which I am not and it’s not in my nature).

    1. fposte*

      1) have you explicitly stated that this is a goal you’d like to see them work toward, and have you provided any kind of metrics?
      2) have you thought through whether this is a genuine business advantage, that may lead to you replacing people who can’t meet these goals, or a taste thing where you wanted to give people the opportunity for a certain kind of growth but not everybody wants that growth?

      1. Anon Accountant*

        1) This is a really hard one. I’m not sure how to specifically bring it up, and I have a really hard time relating to people who aren’t very active in managing their career. With the 3 who struggle I have tried to address the issues in private face to face meetings. These are impromptu, on the spot meetings where I address a certain thing I have very recently observed, along the lines of “project x was late. I asked you several times this week how the project was progressing, and whether you needed help or for me to step in. What went wrong?”
        But I haven’t said something along the lines of “I want for you to be proactive in growing your career” because I wouldn’t know how to have this conversation. I think the other problem is that I have a really hard time saying “you should really be trying to work more hours and work on the weekends”.
        On the other hand I am really frustrated because I feel like I am investing a lot of time and effort into training them, giving them tools to grow, and being a resource for them. I did not have these things at all when I was at a similar stage in my career, which was incredibly hard, but it makes me resent them a little bit for not taking advantage of the things that are provided at this point.
        2) Yes, these things will provide a business advantage (higher skills = higher efficiency = less budget overruns, less write-offs; higher skill set = higher billing rate). They also would provide these individuals an advantage (higher bonus, higher salary, more portable skills, more independence in their work).
        I think you’re onto something though – not everybody wants that growth. Not everybody identifies with their job to the extent that I do. I think one of these people may eventually be in trouble if she does not start improving. The other two will be fine, but could just see better salary growth and career opportunities if they were to grow in this direction.

  205. Undergrad Anon*

    I’ve been advised by my college advisors to try and get involved in some sort of pre-law program this summer, but all of the places they’ve told me to check are for sophomores and up, and I’m a college freshman. (I know for a fact I’m certain on the path I’m taking – I’ve done the research and prep for that.) The same problem came up when I’ve tried to search for similar programs on my own. Does anyone know of any similar databases/resources? I’m not opposed to doing the work to find them (or apply to them), I’m just stuck and could use a few hints! Preferably free/deeply subsidized/for first generation students. If nothing else, I’m hoping to be able to find someone I can job shadow or mentor with in my home or college town.

    1. CatCat*

      I’m a lawyer and I don’t know what a pre-law program is. Can you explain a bit more? Maybe there is something you can do for comparable information/education/experience.

      1. Undergrad Anon*

        It’s essentially prepping students for law school and careers in law – some revolve around taking actual courses (not always for credit), networking, developing writing and critical thinking skills, a few are probably gimmick-y LSAT prep classes, and some are more in the realm of an internship or research experience for undergrads.

        1. CatCat*

          You can look up local bar groups and attend their events. Many have regular lunches and mixers. I’d recommend contacting them to ask if you can work the event (e.g., checking people in) for a discount or free attendance. Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any college students doing this (many law students do though), but I don’t see why you couldn’t.

          For just some general edification, you can always go observe court. Most proceedings are open the public. Check out some stuff where you’ll see a lot of proceedings within a short time period like arraignments or law and motion. Check out some trials as well. You can write down what you see and research later what on earth was going on.

          Also for general edification, read some legal blogs. SCOTUSblog is one of the most well known. My favorite is the California Appellate Report. I am also a fan of a site called Popehat (focused on a lot of free speech issues).

          Just some ideas for you.

    2. Temperance*

      Can your advisors help you find these programs? If you let them know that you’re a first generation student, and will need extra support, they should be able to help you with it.

      TBH, one of my personal greatest regrets is that I didn’t know more about how to get this kind of help as a first-generation student.

      1. Undergrad Anon*

        I did go to our campus first generation program and they pointed me towards the ones that were for sophomores and up. I do agree – it can be really tricky to navigate when your parents don’t have much advice to at least attempt to help.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Are you a freshman right now? Because if you are, then by this summer you will probably technically be a “rising” sophomore, meaning you would eligible for such programs. You can always call someone at the program (there’s usually a number) and ask them to clarify. If you’re a high school student right now, then yes, you’d have to wait until next summer.

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I would be very surprised if there were pre-law programs open to freshmen. Most freshmen don’t know what path they want to follow (heck, most seniors don’t know — kudos to you for figuring it out early!), so it’s a waste of the program’s resources to invest this training/time on a freshman.

      I second AvonLady Barksdale to clarify if they mean current sophomores or rising sophomores by calling one or two of the programs and getting more information.

  206. DietCokeHead*

    Does anyone have an experience with a workplace wellness challenge that was actually enjoyable? We have challenges as part of the company wellness program and participation earns you points towards gift cards. However, the HR admin struggles to come up with an enjoyable challenge and I wanted to see if there was anything I could suggest. Last year we did a walking challenge.

    1. Red Reader*

      at my org, our wellness points can be earned by watching webinars on not just physical wellness, but other kinds — budgeting/financial wellness, how to read your retirement account statement, stuff like that, stress relief methods, meditation and mindfulness. They do a “water drinking” challenge where you earn the points if you turn in a log that says you drank 64+ ounces of water 5 of 7 days for each of four weeks. A sleep log challenge where you earn the points if you turn in a log of how many hours you slept each night for four weeks, and each week has a new suggestion to try and then that week’s log asks you to note if you think that suggestion worked for you – no screen time for an hour before bed, set a hard-and-fast bedtime, whatever. We also earn points for logging volunteer hours.

      I’ve been doing a small (opt-in!) motivation daily email for those members of my team who expressed interest where every day I send an email that says basically “today, do one or more of the following:” and then I have five or six things listed that take no more than a few minutes (mostly), but run a range of physical exercise, mental stimulation, healthy food/water intake, basically should be something that everybody can do on the list, like:

      10 jumping jacks
      go up and down the stairs three times (we’re all remote)
      60 seconds of deep breathing
      drink 16 ounces of water
      find a book, movie or article that you want to read/watch later on that will interest you

      Even if someone can’t do them all, the goal is that there’s at least something on the list that anyone on my team can do each day. mine is set up so that nobody has any expectation of telling me or anyone else what they chose to do, if anything, but you could do something like that — provide a list of ten (or whatever) things and have people log for a length of time which ones they did or how many of them they did per day or whatever and if you complete your log x number of times you get points.

    2. marymoocow*

      I love how my workplace runs our program. We can do the webinars like Red Reader mentioned and submit steps and physical activities for points, get our flu shot, etc. But this year they placed a big emphasis on culture and inclusivity. We can earn points for learning 10 words in a foreign language, visiting museums or cultural centers or the LGBTQ center on campus, watching foreign films, trying recipes from another culture, volunteering or performing community service, etc. It’s all self-reported so I’m not sure how well this fits into your plans, but it’s definitely nice to have some variety on top of the physical wellness activities. I work at a university, so I feel like my office is an extraordinarily diverse place anyway, and it makes it really easy to participate in these events.

  207. Former Computer Professional*

    I work for a tiny company. When I started there was just 6 of us and in 5 years we’ve doubled in size.

    The owner just sent me a small gift, a book that the company put out a few years before I started working with them. The ‘gift card’ says, “With love from [senior boss’ nickname].”

    I know his heart is in the right place, and I’m sure he didn’t mean anything untoward by it, but I still find it weird. Is it me? I am not going to ask him about it, but I am not sure whether it’s normal to feel weird about this or to feel guilty about feeling weird. Does that make sense?

    1. fposte*

      I think it’s one small eyebrow raise’s worth of off, but I wouldn’t spend any time thinking about beyond an initial “Oookay.”

      1. Former Computer Professional*

        OK, thank you. I will go for the “shrug it off; I work for a nice but kinda weirdo” side of things!

  208. Shoe Ruiner*

    Is this gossip or the right thing to do?

    There is a person I work with who I have seen in the bathroom not washing her hands. Several times. It just grosses me out but I mind my own business and haven’t said anything to her or anyone else about it. Probably a lot of people don’t wash their hands that I don’t know about.
    But recently she brought in food to share with everyone, that she made herself. I didn’t eat any of it because all I could think about was her lack of hand washing. I didn’t tell anyone else not to eat it because I didn’t want to gossip. Is there any way I can address this without being gossipy? I suppose I could confront her about it but with what else I know about her, I don’t think it would do much good.

    1. Temperance*

      I probably would tell my work friends, TBH. I used to work with a receptionist who would uh, loudly use the restroom and never wash her hands. It was disgusting. You can bet we did NOT eat her food.

      1. Thlayli*

        I would also tell anyone I was friendly with but I’d probably preface it with “look janes really nice and all, but…”

    2. Overeducated*

      I personally wouldn’t say anything, I think it would come off like being oimut to get her.

  209. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    Tired after a long work week and event planning……
    What fun stuff do you do Fridays to unwind? Grab salad at your favorite place? Read a magazine? Read? Walk around, try a new recipe? Need ideas…..

    1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      This will sound very boring to you, but I look forward to cooking a good but easy meal, and getting in my jammies (usually by 6:00), getting caught up on the tv shows I’ve missed that week and snuggling on my couch with my hubby and kitty. I know, y’all are jealous of my glamorous lifestyle, aren’t you? ;-)

    2. Foreign Octopus*

      When I finish work on a Saturday, my favourite thing to do is to set up my nest on the sofa and bury in deep with my cat. We normally have a midday siesta and then I potter about for the rest of the day. I like to read a couple of chapters of whatever book I’m reading, maybe have a hot bath, watch an episode of whatever TV show I’m on at the time. Nothing too strenuous. Just time for me to decompress and spend quality time with my fur child.

  210. AvonLady Barksdale*

    Venting about one of my biggest workplace pet peeves. It is a “peeve” because it’s never that bad and it never adversely affects anything, but I’m just annoyed. Happened twice this week: I will send out an expected email (as in, someone will ask for something and I will tell them it’s coming, or my boss will) and later– several hours or even several days– I will get a message asking where said email is. This has happened in past jobs too. Internal clients, external clients, my boss… It just bugs. I get that people receive a ton of emails, but if you’re looking for something, why not just look for it before contacting me about it? I usually say something light and I apologize (which I probably shouldn’t do) and I re-send, and 9 times out of the 10 the recipient will respond with, “Whoops, yes, your email is right here,” but it’s soooooo annoying. Makes me second-guess myself.

    Lately it’s been clients expecting an email from my boss and getting one from me instead, and no amount of “You’ll be getting that document from AvonLady by tomorrow afternoon” is helping. Sigh. Does this happen to anyone else?

    1. Someone else*

      When this happens to me, I usually default to “said message was sent at 2:35pm timezonetime. Let me know if you did not receive it. Also it may be in your SPAM filter.”

  211. Anon for this (because I’m paranoid)*

    Reality check needed: am I overreacting, or is my coworker out of bounds?

    Before the holidays I was made lead for a project that my coworker expected to run, in part because he has some experience. Due to bandwidth/shifting workload, our manager assigned it to me to allow my coworker to focus on his project/other work. He’s really unhappy about it, has complained to a mutual coworker, and gone back to our manager asking for the project. No change.

    Another coworker requested a meeting on the project with him, which he then forwarded to me. In the meeting, the coworker presented a slide deck on the topic that he put together this week (didn’t share with me) and spent 35 minutes talking about a project that he isn’t even leading! I couldn’t get a word in. He spent part of the time talking up his expertise, to the point that the other person in the meeting said something along the lines of “I’m glad you’re here share your expertise and to be a resource for [me]” (which sounds a bit innocuous but wasn’t really.) I managed to wrest the conversation away from him with my plans for follow up but I’m steaming mad. I feel like he completely undermined me with on of the major stakeholders on the project. Am I off-base?

    1. Argh!*

      It was just one stakeholder? This seems fine to me. You can tell that person that in the future emails should be sent to you, and that you would arrange for follow up depending on availability. You don’t have to say that Mr. KnowItAll has a chip on his shoulder. You can say he has a lot of other responsibilities, so you don’t want to eat up his time unless you have to.

    2. designbot*

      I can totally see why it’s burning you up, but I’d say try to drill down on what the real issue is. On the plus side, he forwarded the meeting to you–if he was being really shifty he could’ve just taken the meeting and kept you out of the loop. Was the slide deck he presented off-base in some way? Or was it a redundancy or other waste of time? What was the coworker trying to get out of the meeting, and was that successful or was it something they could’ve gotten out of you in a more expedient way? Or did the guy who wanted to lead the project really do anything wrong–when he forwarded you the meeting, what did you do? Just accept and show up with nothing prepared, or did you have an agenda that he steamrolled over without knowing it because you didn’t discuss it with him?
      There’s a ton of nuance to this stuff, but overall I think I’d just take it as a sign that you guys need to reset your interactions on this and figure out how to be on the same page instead of working at cross purposes. But if there’s something specific that you wish your coworker did differently, tell him! Say “Hey, that deck you put together was really interesting, but actually had some differences with my plans for the project. In the future, could you run that sort of thing past me first?” or “I want to make sure you’re not spending a bunch of time on things like that meeting deck. Boss has made it clear that I can only have X hours a week of your time for this project, and since your time is so valuable I think it would be best used on A and B.”

  212. Young and Managing*

    I just started a new position and so far it’s great! However, there is one thing that’s becoming very challenging. I’m meeting tons of people each day. While everyone has been very kind, I realized I’m getting to the point where there is no way I can recognize people easily. It’s part of my role to chat with people frequently and so I’m walking around and knocking on people’s doors to chat with them. How do I avoid the awkward conversation of “I’m not sure if we met yet” when I can’t recall? (I already have a list going of who I’ve said hello to, but with the amount of faces and names it’s overwhelming.)

    1. Argh!*

      Can you secretly look them up on social media and copy their profile pictures into a private document for yourself?

    2. animaniactoo*

      Eh. Just be straightforward and cheerful about it. “I’ve met so many people I’m starting to lose track. Have we met? If so, please remind me what your name is and what we talked about?”

    3. Jillociraptor*

      Could you download an org chart and/or a floor chart (your admin probably has a chart of who sits where) and check off people as you chat with them? Maybe make a note of a couple of things you discussed?

    4. Artemesia*

      You get a pass the second time you meet them but you need a system after that. I think we have all been there where we know we should know and are too embarrassed after all this time to ask. When I taught, I had a couple of hundred students at a time and would photograph them in work groups the first week and just memorize the names (I had them hold a paper with their name on it in marker). You could do something similar; find pictures — it would help if the business had a photo directory — but if not, see if you can find them elsewhere. You can also systematically create a chart and descriptions if not pictures. Some people are more distinctive — red heads, curly hair, racial minority, young, gender (whatever is rarer in the setting, learn the easy ones first and well and then keep adding until you have them all.) I used to have classes where there would be 10 19 year old women, slender, with straight blond hair, beautiful grooming and nice clothes — it was really hard to learn their names compared to the girl with dark curly hair and the red headed guy. And when you are down to a few, you can ask a colleague. Everyone understands that it is hard to get everyone straight right away.

    5. Thlayli*

      I have an awful memory for faces and names. I’m pretty upfront about it and say things like “I’m terrible with names please don’t be offended if I forget yours never time I meet you”.

  213. Not that smart but still pretty awesome*

    Now that I’ve been in the workplace for a few years, I’ve noticed that my computer skills really are better than the average person, in that I type fast, know keyboard shortcuts, and can navigate new programs with relative ease. I want to put this as one of my skills on my resume because they make me a more productive employee than someone who types only 45wpm, has to right-click everything, and does not know the easy way to format text on Microsoft Word.

    How would I phrase it without sounding obnoxious?

    1. Why Oh Why Does this keep happening?*

      I would copy the language used in the job description for the job I’m applying for.

    2. LCL*

      …not the way you phrased it in your post.
      Right clicking vs keyboard shortcuts is more a matter of the age the person doing the keyboarding was when they learned how to use computers.
      The Microsoft office suite has had so many upgrades, and each upgrade removes and changes the commands and buttons so you have to learn a new way of doing it, that if you are a younger user I’m sure you are faster than someone who has to unremember the last 10 versions. And there is more than one way to easily format text in word, it depends on what you are trying to do.

    3. Louise*

      I don’t mean to be harsh, but the things you’ve listed here don’t feel like “special skills” level, more just things that comes with being a tech native (which I’m guessing you are based on your years in the work force). If you are genuinely proficient in Microsoft suite (not just formatting but can do things like mail merges and advanced excel formulas), I think that could go under skills as “proficient in Microsoft suite.” I also think you could (if it’s relevant) include a line in your cover letter about being comfortable with new technology or that you enjoy learning new programs and are a fast learner with new tech.

    4. Temperance*

      I honestly don’t think you should add this to your resume. I mean, I have all those skills, too, as do almost all of my friends.

      Your resume should set you apart. Being slightly better at navigating a computer than your mom (or someone her age) isn’t exactly a skill.

    5. Thlayli*

      when I was young and needed to pad out my resume I had a section that listed different programs and my level in them (like excellent, good, basic). This included both industry specific and standard office software. And this was back when lots of people didn’t even know how to right click!

      However nowadays everyone is able to use office and it would look really weird putting something like this on a resume nowadays. They’re gonna assume based on your age that you know how to use a computer well.

      Microsoft actually have exams in the different office programs – you could sit some of them and put the results on your resume.

  214. Why Oh Why Does this keep happening?*

    If you make a vague request, you will receive a vague, or even one-word answer.

    If you want a detailed response, request a detailed response, please.

    That is all.

    2. Triple Anon*

      Yes. Also, don’t expect answers to questions you don’t ask. I’m so tired of people trying to bring things up indirectly. Or making confrontational statements when what they really mean is, “Why do you [XYZ]?” So many problems could be solved and avoided if people just communicated more directly.

  215. mental health anon*

    The quality of my work has been tanking, and my boss brought it up in the kindest way possible. I’ve been trying to get off for nearly a year an antidepressant that hasn’t helped with depression or anxiety, but tapering off of it makes me sick – headaches, brain fog, jetlag-level exhaustion, nausea, vomiting (cymbalta withdrawal) – AND super unproductive with my work. I can barely concentrate enough to read. I need to get better/improve, and not sure how to. What would be reasonable to ask from work, if anything? How much to divulge? I know it is late in the workday; any kind thoughts are appreciated.

    1. Kind stranger*

      Hi, I’m sorry you’re having a rough time, and I’m glad your manager is being kind! Do you feel comfortable giving your manager some context? If nothing else, I think thanking him/her for their kind approach is helpful, and then say: “I’m sorry that my work quality has dipped, I’ve been dealing with some health issues. My plan is to a) [see a new doc/whatever you feel comfortable saying], b) resolving [work issues xyz] since I know they’re the highest priority, and c) check in in about a [week/month/whatever would make sense] and loop back to [issues abc] to review if they’re been sufficiently resolved.”
      I think if you approach the conversation with a clear idea of what work needs to be done/accomplished, etc., and a willingness to jump right in, it can diffuse any potential awkwardness, and it might even help with your concentration to have a very clear list.

      1. mental health anon*

        Thank you for your kind words and for this script! I’m debating how much to share with my manager.

  216. Is Boss-Hating Normal?*

    Hello there, AAM readers and commenters.

    I’m curious – how normal is it to hate your boss or your job? Sure, we’d all prefer to be independently wealthy, and not have to work. But for those of us who need to pay bills, we sometimes have to do what we may not exactly want to do. I get that.

    I’m a CPA. I’ve done taxes in an accounting firm for 15+ years, and recently switched over to the corporate side. I’ve worked the long hours that you’ve heard of. I’ve had many bosses (which happens when you have as many as five at a time). Some bosses I’ve had, I would have walked through fire for; others, I wouldn’t spit on if they were on fire. One was so mean and sexist that I was in a deposition about it, and his own lawyers struggled to defend his conduct. I didn’t like him, and wished myself away from him, but I mostly kept him out of my headspace when I wasn’t at work. We wouldn’t ever have been friends, but he probably wanted me to succeed, because that was more money for him if I did.

    Now, I’ve gone corporate, and I just have one boss that I’ve worked for since she joined a year ago. She seemed fine at first, but quickly started to behave like Regina George. I sit outside her office, which isn’t soundproof, so I hear the backbiting commentary she has with others about me and other coworkers. She makes snotty passive-aggressive comments in meetings about how she would have done something differently than I did it, but I can’t really respond. She even admonished me for asking for “too much” PTO via our shared leave program for my direct report who has cancer, because “she might not need that much”. (I asked for the max of 25 days.)

    This boss, I really actively hate. Like, wish bad things for her. If she got hit by a bus, I’d probably dance for joy. Not Courtney Cox in the Bruce Springsteen video, I’d twerk. Heck, I’d breakdance. (Told you I was old.)

    Even on the weekends, I can’t stop my brain from buzzing with negative thoughts. For the first time in my life, I’ve had to take anti-anxiety supplements (a valerian and St. John’s Wort combo), just to have enough zen to get through the workday. Only I’m taking it outside of work, because it’s the only way I’ve found to get her out of my headspace.

    Is this normal-ish? It’s very possible that I’m ‘just’ feeling very threatened because the person who exerts control over my livelihood doesn’t seem to like me as an employee. If I were the only one she did this to, I’d assume I was a bad fit, and get the hell out. But this is a company that mostly cares about employees, and most people really have a good experience. She’s new, and doesn’t seem to care that her style is harsher than company culture. Her boss is very uninvolved, and I don’t have a relationship where I can go to him.

    Maybe in the past I’ve had so many bosses at once, I could try to steer things towards the one(s) I worked with best, and now I don’t have that option. Do I just need to accept that not liking your boss/job is normal?

    1. H.C.*

      If a boss is stressing you out to the point that you need to take anti-anxiety herbs to get through the workday, it’s probably time to look into either a transfer (if that’s possible at all) or begin job hunting.

    2. designbot*

      No! It’s normal to have people at work that we work better with or worse with than others, but having to listen to somebody b*$#% about you and other people all day long is not normal. It is hostile (in the colloquial sense, not the legal sense), and putting up with that level of hostility every day takes its toll. If this woman were firmly installed at the company and you were new, I’d say you’re better off moving on. But if you otherwise like your job, could you put out feelers about transferring assignments to get away from this awful person?

    3. Mr. Bob Dobalina*

      They say the boss makes or breaks the job. From what you have written, it sounds like it is time to move on to a new boss. Are the rest of the aspects of your employment so wonderful that they outweigh your awful boss, such that you want to stay there? It doesn’t sound like it. Are your job prospects so dismal that finding a new job would be very difficult? You owe it to yourself and your personal happiness to at least start looking at new job opportunities where you can be… less miserable. It doesn’t sound like it would be such a high bar, to find an improved situation.

  217. AnoninCA*

    I would like help figuring out just HOW weird this interaction I had this week at work was. Perhaps on a scale of 1-10.

    I have a new boss, and he has been here for a few months now. He is an older gentleman, with lots of experience in writing, which is what my job entails. There’s one problem. He’s completely technologically inept. Every email he receives he prints and stores in an ever-growing pile of file folders. He struggles for format Word Documents and doesn’t know how to copy and paste things from Word into Excel. We have pre-formatted Word docs we can download and use to put our work onto, and I have to tell him how to pull them every time. Even then, he somehow manages to mess up the formatting of the template along the way. I’m very patient, and I understand that Word can be devilish when it tries to think for you, but if he would mention there are issues as soon as they happen, I could step in and fix them. But inevitably, he waits until he’s done with the thing, THEN asks me what went wrong. Several times I have ended up starting from scratch and transferring his work onto a fresh document. This may not seem like much, but BOY does it get annoying when I myself am slammed. I also want to stress that I repeatedly walk him through these things and am as patient as I know how to be about it.

    Here comes the odd part. Last week, we got a last minute project that required s project be shipped. Because he had not followed process correctly, the project was due the next day, and we found out AFTER it had been printed and packaged, that changes had to made. It was four minutes until time for me to leave, and less than an hour before the shipping company would come by the get the packages. I had a stroke of inspiration, cut open the packaging, and managed to get the thing changed, re-printed, and re-packaged with about 30 minutes to spare. This was stressful, but it was something that I was ready to do in order to make sure things went out on time. I was also pleasant and affirmative the entire process, as I truly believe that’s the most helpful when people are honestly trying, which he is.

    However, when I got to work the next day, I found an incredibly sweet and intensely praising email that he sent to our grandboss. It was HIGH praise. Far more, I have to admit, than I feel like I deserved. It meant a lot though, and I told him so. At that point, my boss pulls out a BOTTLE OF HIGH SHELF LIQUOR and gave it to me as a thank you present. I took it, I believe graciously, because I honestly had no idea what else to do.

    Thoughts?

    1. KR*

      He sounds like a very nice person. The liquer is a little wierd but you went above and beyond and he clearly appreciated it very much.

    2. miyeritari*

      I honestly do not think this is weird at all. Given your boss’s old-fashioned nature, him giving you a fancy liquor as a sign of his appreciation for you going above and beyond seem to fit right into things both “old fashioned bosses” and “good bosses who appreciate you” would do. I’d give it 2 at the most.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      You saved his bacon, and he was grateful. Accept it graciously and enjoy!

      As for his documents, can he just type out what he wants to say and you insert it in the template? A good template should convert the formatting when you paste the text in.

    4. CatCat*

      The booze is a bit much and sort of an odd reward (as opposed to a small bonus or something), but sounds like a genuine expression of his appreciation. Maybe a culmination of his appreciation following the months of you helping coach him on the technology and saving the day with the shipment.

      1. Mr. Bob Dobalina*

        On the weirdness scale, I would give this a zero, honestly. I am not sure what aspect of it you think is weird. The alcohol? I have received booze gifts from my past bosses. Wine, champagne, etc. My current employer has a weekly company-sponsored happy hour in the office: free booze and schmooze, courtesy of the company. Based on my experience, I don’t see the gift as strange at all. Are you offended by the alcohol gift? There are certainly people who do not drink alcohol, and for whom this would be an inappropriate gift. He felt you deserved a gift and high praise, so graciously accept, even if you don’t want the alcohol. At least he is capable of a sincere thank you and recognition when warranted… Not all bosses are. As for your frustration with the constant word-processing assistance: Is your job responsibility to provide with him administrative support or not? I wasn’t clear on that aspect, and whether you felt you were having to provide him with support that wasn’t within your job description.

    6. Fortitude Jones*

      I like your boss. Sure, his technological blunders are annoying, but at least he recognizes that and appears grateful for your help (and shows it too). I’d let this go as not weird at all.

    7. Thlayli*

      The complete lack of technological ability is very weird, the printing of emails is EXTREMELY weird. The high praise and gift after you cheerfully stayed late to do something he was incapable of found and totally saved his bacon was lovely and nice and a very appropriate thing to do. The fact that it was alcohol doesn’t seem weird to me I’ve had many a bottle given to me at work. If you don’t want it can I have it?

        1. AnoninCA*

          Thanks all! I’ve worked in the same company all of my adult life, and gifts of any kind from upper management are non-existent. I’ve held five different positions and no one I’ve known has ever received something like this. I suppose with him having been hired outside of the company, he is pleasantly removed from that culture. But I honestly had no idea whether it was strange, as I’ve never seen it done! Thanks for the insight, he really is a very nice man, technology-challenges aside.

  218. Continuing to interview with a verbal offer on the table*

    I have a question about ethics and etiquette regarding interviewing for a job when you’re waiting on another offer. I have a conditional offer with Organization #1, and the official offer is contingent on a lot of paperwork, which is still in processing and takes a while. I don’t know what their final salary offer or benefits package will be. In case that falls through for whatever reason, I’ve applied for exactly the same job at Organization #2. Both of these organizations are new and they talk to each other a lot to share best practices, etc. I have a phone interview with Org #2 on Monday
    What course of action should I take? Tell them that I have an offer at Org #1? I want to be mindful of people’s time and resources, particularly because if I end up working at Organization #1 I will undoubtedly run into (and maybe work with) folks from Organization #2.

    1. Fortitude Jones*

      Since the two orgs are so close, I say mention it. If they weren’t, I would say you could keep the conditional offer to yourself since nothing about that one’s set in stone and it’s normal to keep interviewing until you have a firm start date in hand.

    3. designbot*

      If any sort of good lead-in to the topic comes up, I would mention that you’re also interviewing with the other organization and even that you’re a bit further along in that process, but not that you have an offer, because until there’s a number attached to it I wouldn’t really consider that an offer.

  219. Fake old Converse shoes*

    Today my coworker, the one who complained of our CEO’s LinkedIn habits, gave his notice. He is the second person in our team that leaves after six months with us for a much better paid job. Part of me feels happy for him, but the other is insanely jealous and bitter.
    I started in my field four years ago. They started six months ago (this was their first job). They both got juicy paid jobs and will be able to move from their parents. I feel hurt and I fear that I can’t grow professionally (or that my growth will be slower) because I don’t have a penis between my legs. Or because I’m no beauty. Or because to some people may see me as PoC, and by default not suitable for the job.
    At least there will be a good-bye dinner on his last day.

    2. Temperance*

      I’m so, so sorry. A few thoughts: does your city have networking groups for your profession, for women, or for POC?

      1. Fake old Converse shoes*

        There is a group for teenage girls who are interested in STEM, and a Sysadmin group (all men in their late 40s/early 50s). Neither are a good fit for me. There was a non-profit for Women in STEM, but they ceased to exist a few years ago due to lack of funding.

    3. Student*

      Apply for a new job today! You won’t get a better job unless you go get it yourself (even if these particular men had juicy new jobs fall into their laps).

      1. Fake old Converse shoes*

        I’m checking once a week. The requirements are INSANE, and clearly written by people who don’t know what they’re talking about. For example, someone asked for people with 5 years experience in a technology that started a year and a half ago. This is lowball season, the good jobs are posted around March. In the meantime I’ll polish my resume.

        1. Thlayli*

          Are you not applying for jobs unless you have all the requirements? Apply apply apply!

          Also, ask the guy where he found his job!

  220. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

    I don’t know if there is a solution to this problem or maybe just venting will help. I’m the newest employee at my job. We have a small parking lot that will fit everyone’s car if (big if) everyone pulls into their space and parks properly. One co-worker will park on an angle or between two spaces at least 5 or 6 times a month. This creates a domino affect and instead of everyone fitting in, someone has to find paid on street parking, usually me because I start several hours later than everyone else. I can go in and ask the bad parker (BP) to move her car and she will. Every single time she is surprised that her parking is so bad. It’s especially frustrating because our parking is free (rare downtown). Monthly parking can be had but the garage is two blocks away and I would be furious if I had to pay because BP can’t be bothered to be more careful. Rant over.

    1. LCL*

      Can you double park behind or otherwise block in BP next time she does this, and not block in everybody else?

      1. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

        Unfortunately no. It’s because of the design of the parking lot, it’s small and surrounded by a fence on three sides so there is no room for maneuvering. Double parking or blocking her would block everyone else as well. That’s why it’s important for everyone to park in their spaces and not encroach into the other ones.

    2. Thlayli*

      Go in and ask her to move every. single. time. Also point out to her that there are exactly as many spaces as staff, so every time she does this you will have to come ask her to move.

  221. Maybe Okay*

    I posted a couple of months ago about imposter syndrome, and I can honestly say, I love my new job! It is a much better fit than my last place, and all of the knowledge gaps are filling in quickly.

    However, I am stuck on how to build rapport with people who talk too much. Relationships are a big part of my job, and one of my key people is a talker. I don’t like to interrupt, but it is the only way I’ve been able to get a word in. Does anybody have advice or experience with this?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      That’s great – happy for you!

      Who is more senior – you or the talker – or are you peers?

    2. Thlayli*

      Interrupt! People who talk a lot usually come from big loud families and are well used to being interrupted and won’t even notice. They probably think you’re awfully quiet and shy because you DONT interrupt!

  222. miyeritari*

    I’m basically the only person in my office who hasn’t gotten sick yet. Pray!!! keep praying!!

  223. A Different Screen Name than Usual.*

    I just got a memo that a $3.25 tip I left on the company credit card was “excessive”. It seems the maximum permitted 18% totals only $3.24. Should I respond that if they want to fly me back to Knoxville, I will track down the waiter and get a penny back; or should I just grin and it go.

    1. Enough*

      Please tell me you have an overly automated system and that a real person didn’t actually generate this memo.

      1. A Different Screen Name than Usual.*

        I wish I could. My firm outsourced at the 1st of the year. I think it was done manually.

    3. JKP*

      It’s kind of scummy that the company maxes the tips out at 18%, since 20% is really the standard and what waitstaff get taxed on.

    5. Thlayli*

      Please tell them they should fly you back to track down the waiter for the extra penny. Please please please.

  224. Events Planner*

    I work on an events planning team where we all work in different locations in our state, and I see some of my teammates in person more than others due to the nature of our work. We all work on events throughout the year and depending on who gets paired on which project, we work in person together a varying amount. The team is very open, close, works well together and we all get along in a friendly, more relaxed environment so that it can feel like I’m working with friends instead of coworkers. We have bi-weekly meetings where we are encouraged to share our personal and professional aspirations and there is an encouragement for us to be close. We also provide a lot of feedback to our teammates about their projects (ideas, planning, and debriefs).

    I do feel close to almost everyone on the team. The one exception is Jane. I like Jane, she is very smart and I think she brings a lot to the team but I can tell she does not like me personally but she is a very professional person so she never acts inappropriately.

    Background: I have noticed over the past three years that she has never once suggested to work with me, and whenever I propose a project she won’t volunteer. However, she’s asked everyone else to work with her multiple times. She never gives feedback on any of my projects, while she gives everyone else feedback and has repeatedly publicly praised everyone else on the team over the years. Whenever I email her I get short responses but she’ll send long responses with jokes and friendly comments to my coworkers. But she also doesn’t say anything negative to me so I don’t want it to seem like she is being horrible. This isn’t something that eats away at me, just something in my mental rolodex about my team.

    We were paired by our supervisor for the first in three years to do a two person event and she wrote back saying she would prefer to do it on her own. Our boss said it had to be two people so we are, which made me feel a bit awkward.

    Anyway, Jane has given her notice and now I’ll be doing my first event with Jane the week before she leaves. I don’t really know what to say, because I do think that she has been great for the team’s work over the years and will be sad to lose her interesting perspective on the work that we do but.. it feels a bit odd to say those things to someone who I know doesn’t like me. I also can’t just not mention that she’s leaving. Any advice? I tend to get really awkward and uncomfortable when I’m interacting with people that I know don’t like me.

    1. Courtney*

      I would probably just stick to making a generic statement wishing her luck with the new job (assuming that’s the reason she’s given notice) and then being polite during the event but sticking to pretty surface level small talk with work details. My advice would be different if you were going to be working with her for some time, but luckily that’s not the case!

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      You don’t know that she doesn’t like you. You know that she avoids working with you, which isn’t exactly the same – though I totally get that it must feel like it.

      As she’s leaving I would just take the ‘imagine she’s a weird creature in a nature doc’ approach with her.

  225. Dagnabbit*

    Just a little over a month til the bar exam! Whoo! I am really, really looking forward to closing this chapter of my life for good.

  227. Anon4this*

    Is it normal/okay for recruiters to not disclose the salary range for an open position? I spoke to one for the first time last week and I thought it was odd. He also said it was an entry-level position, even thought I already have two years of experience in my field now (and a graduate degree), so I thought it was kind of lowballing.

  228. Cloud Nine Sandra*

    My temp job will be turning permanent any day now – last hurdle completed and now it’s all setting my start date which will be dictated by payroll (so I start on the first day of a pay period). Today I got to look into my benefits and zomg, I will be getting far superior health insurance and dental and vision for 1/4th what I was contributing to get crappy high deductible health insurance as a temp. I’m just so over the top happy – this upcoming president’s day will most likely be the first paid vacation day I’ve had in 4 years. (Assuming I’ve started by then.) And I’m making 10% more than I made 4 years when I last worked full time.

    I wish for the same luck to all the jobseekers here at AAM.

  229. Anonandonandon*

    Advice / opinions needed: I have signed a contract for a new position to start in October. Was planning to give 6 months’ notice at my current position (contract requires 3). Learned today that a drug rep shared my plans with co-workers already. I wasn’t present for the conversation. I feel like it’s too early to officially give notice, but pointless to deny the truth. How should I handle the next 8 months? And, side bar, do I confront the drug rep?

    1. Observer*

      Who is the drug rep? Does he work for your new employer? If not how did he find out about your plans?

  230. JLAC*

    Not sure if this belongs in the work thread or non work thread but today was my last day of work at a job I LOVED 8 years ago and for the last year (ok more like 2) was soul sucking. I may not have realized I was being gaslighted if not for AAM, the many “your boss is crazy and not going change” posts, and comments from from sane posters. Thank you from a grateful reader.

  231. nep*

    Is it odd / bad / in any way disadvantageous to submit an online application outside of business hours?

    2. CAA*

      No. It’s totally normal for people who are employed to use their evenings or weekends to apply for other jobs.

  232. nep*

    I reckon this has come up from time to time — happy to hear anyone’s thoughts. Have you ever sought to connect with someone on LinkedIn without any mutual contacts or other sort of link? Just introducing yourself? (I suppose the appropriateness of this depends on what this person does…recruiter, CEO, other…)
    There is someone who heads an office where I’d love to land some consulting work; I’m always on the lookout for possible gigs with this office. I already know a couple of people there but I am thinking of connecting with the head of office, just in case it might bear fruit. (I’m on the fence, as I’ve no idea what I’d say…)
    I guess I could ask one friend in the office what the boss is like and whether she thinks he’d be receptive.
    Or is it just futile?

    1. buttercup*

      If you don’t have any mutual connections, I recommend writing a message explaining your motivation for requesting them. It can even be vague like “I want to connect with you because I work in XYZ industry.” Wanting to make connections in your industry is normal, but it helps to put in the effort of writing a personalized message than just clicking “connect”.

      1. nep*

        Thanks. Right — even with colleagues and acquaintances, I never hit just ‘connect.’ Always a note.

  233. Solaire*

    Hey everyone. I have a question that’s more about insurance regulations and HR than office conduct, but I figured I’d try here anyway.

    I quit my job a couple of weeks ago, and I asked HR to send me any paperwork for COBRA on my last day. I haven’t gotten anything, so I’ve sent a few follow up emails and calls. No one’s picked up when I called, and I haven’t gotten any emails back.

    No vacation auto-responders. No “that’s John’s responsibility, please ask him.” No “John is no longer with ACME Co., please direct communication to Jane” auto-responders.

    Since continuing to email them would be like shouting into a void, I don’t know where to go next. Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

    1. Anonandonandon*

      I was in this exact same situation several years ago. I finally got so frustrated that I told them they’d be hearing from my attorney (I didn’t have one). I had my COBRA paperwork in less than a week. Play hardball if necessary!

    2. Blue Eagle*

      Can you go back in person and request the info. That is what I would do if noone was returning my e-mails or phone calls.

      1. Solaire*

        I could, but it’s a 2 hour trip and I don’t think I’d be let in. HR worked in a different location than I did, so I wouldn’t be recognized.

    3. CAA*

      Are you sure your former employer has this info? It’s often handled by the insurance broker after the company notifies them you’re no longer there. If you are on the regular insurance through January, then they will probably mail the paperwork during the first week of February. You have 60 days after they send you the notice to sign up, and it’s retroactive, so you have plenty of time.

      1. Solaire*

        Good point. I’m not sure if they handle it, actually. The job before this gave me COBRA forms at my exit interview so I expected to receive something from this job (I declined the exit interview here).

        I’ll call the insurance company up on Monday. Thanks!

      2. Observer*

        It’s the legal responsibility of the company, though, so at minimum, they need to give the insurance people a heads up and tell Solaire exactly who she needs to call for the information. Silence is NOT an option.

  234. Emily*

    I am a graduate student who doesn’t normally hang out in the Friday thread, but has come around here a few times to ask for advice on maintaining focus and getting things done.

    Just wanted to pop in and report that I’ve been making myself work for 4 hours every weekday for the past couple of weeks! There have been a couple of blips (on the first day of my period, I’m typically pretty useless), and four hours is not that impressive in a 9-5 workday, but overall this is an improvement for me and I hope it’ll be sustainable in the long run.

    1. DwynywynLives*

      Well done Emily! I too am a grad student and have lectures each day usually 9 or 10 until 5, then have homework. So year – I usually work a bit in the evening on homework – 3-4 hours each night and I take one night off totally each week. I also take care to do nice things for myself like a hot bath on the night off, as a treat, etc. Keep up the good work and you can do it! :)

  235. PhyllisB*

    I hope someone can give me some guidance here. I have a (male) family member who is going to Japan on a work-related trip, so I am asking for comments from men who have gone to Japan on work-related trips. I know Japan is well-known for their hospitality to visiting people (I’ve been there, and it’s true, but I am a woman so things were a bit different.) In the past, I know men were expected to attend dinners/entertainment were there was a lot of drinking involved. My question is: is this is still true? My concern is my relative is a recovering alcoholic and shouldn’t drink at all. I know he won’t want to offend his hosts, but he needs to think of his own health, too. His boss will going with him. Should he clue in his boss so maybe he can smooth the way (he had been through treatment/rehab before he got this job) or can he maybe take a sip or two and turn his glass over without offending anyone? I want to give him good advice, but I also know this is a BIG DEAL and don’t want to cause offense.

    1. Courtney*

      Although I’ve never travelled there, generally in these situations I would do something like say I was on some medication that isn’t safe to mix with alcohol.

    2. Thlayli*

      Yes he should say he’s on antibiotics or something. This is what pregnant ladies who haven’t announced yet often say.

      Taking “just a sip” is pretty dangerous.

    3. AC Slater*

      Speaking as a recovering alcoholic, please DO NOT tell him to take just a sip or two. Even one sip could trigger that part of his brain that craves alcohol.

      When I had to on my first work trip in sobriety (to Vegas) I told a trusted co-worker just so someone knew. It gave me an extra boost of accountability. I had phone numbers of people to call if I was tempted. If possible, I ordered my own drinks and ordered things like cranberry juice or seltzer water so it appeared I was drinking.

      If he doesn’t feel comfortable letting his boss know, he could also use the excuses suggested above. Something as simple as a “not feeling well” or “jet lagged” should work. Or he could just stir the straw around in his drink to give the impression he is actively drinking it.

      I had one creepy co-worker who would not quit pestering me to drink. I made a joke about being too much of a control freak to drink. I told him no thanks, repeatedly. Finally I just had to tell him flat out that I did not want anything to drink and it was inappropriate of him to keep asking me.

      Another perspective that might help—potentially offending a client is nothing compared to risking his sobriety. One might make work a little uncomfortable, the other might lead to relapse and eventually jail or death. If he has been to rehab before, he had a serious problem, and in my experience alcoholics who go back to drinking pick up where they left off and get worse, never better.

      Good luck to him! And it is awesome of you to be so supportive. Will be sending good thoughts his (and your!) way.

  236. char*

    How do you deal with it when a client is extremely bad at estimating when they’ll have work for you? We have one client who promises to have X for us “by end of day” every single time we talk. It’s been two months and they still don’t have X ready for us! It’s getting hard to plan out who we’ll need on this project when because we can’t trust the client to give us an even remotely accurate timeline. By now most of the people who were supposed to be working with this client have been assigned to other projects, so if one day the client suddenly does finally have X for us, we won’t be ready to do it.

    How should we handle this situation? For the record, I’m the lead on this client’s projects, but my manager is the one who ultimately handles allocating people to different projects. She’s said she’ll join in on our meeting with this client next time, so maybe I should just leave it to her? I’m just wondering how people would typically deal with a client like this.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I would definitely leave that to my manager. At my last job, things like this would happen all the time, with the added super fun bonus that once the client delivered their end, we were expected to hit the ground running and turn things around in record time. I stepped back and let my CEO deal with it. (He sucked, so it didn’t end up helping anything, but if your manager/company is more reasonable, you’ll be ok.)

      Is there something in the initial statement of work that says something about timelines? As in, “Step 1 upon delivery of client materials”?

  237. AC Slater*

    I would like the thoughts of the amazing people in this group. I got a dream job offer this week, contingent on a background check. The job is management and does not involve driving. I had a DWI almost 7 years ago and disclosed it on the form (I am very much ashamed of this. I am a recovering alcoholic and have now been sober for 5 years). I realized after disclosing that I also had another driving offense at that time (expired license). I called the background check company to add it and they said I needed to call my recruiter directly since I had already submitted the form.

    Emailed recruiter asking for a quick chat. She responded to just email her the info and she would forward on to the background check company. So I explained both infractions via email since they were related (I honestly can’t remember if the expired license was dismissed when I pleaded to the DWI…tried to look it up and didn’t see it on my record but figured it was better to be honest upfront). I said I would love to discuss if she had any questions or concerns. Then…crickets.

    I realize it’s Friday and people were close to wrapping up for the day, but I’m anxious that I blew it. I went through a very intense interview process and received nothing but glowing feedback. The recruiter and I have a great rapport. Am I overreacting that she didn’t respond today or do I have reason to be concerned? If I don’t hear from her by Monday AM, should I follow up again? I’m afraid I blew it up into something bigger by emailing her but I didn’t want to have it come back to bite me if I didn’t disclose it.

    Also of note—I currently work for a very conservative firm and disclosed this during my background check with them (when it was only 2 years old), and got hired with no issue. I was open with them upfront too.

    1. CAA*

      Yes, I think you are overreacting and there’s no need to contact her on Monday. You sent her the info and now it’s on her to forward it on to the background check people and then wait to see if anything else turns up that would be of concern.

      The thing is, getting this kind of personal information is somewhat embarrassing for the person receiving it, even if you have good rapport with her. Don’t push her to talk to you about it. You’ll just make everything more awkward, and there’s nothing to be gained by it now. Wait for the background check, and do whatever explaining is requested of you when that comes back.

      1. AC Slater*

        Thank you! I did hear from her today. It was friendly and matter-of-fact, just asking for the city, state and county of the offense. She did not have any sort of “concerned” reaction and also did not make any reassuring comments about it not being prohibitive to my getting hired. I imagine you are correct, that they will wait to see if anything else comes up on my check. Which I know won’t, so hopefully they will give me a chance to explain this and won’t rescind the offer. FWIW I did not disclose that I am a recovering alcoholic—just said that it was a terrible error in judgment that I regret deeply, that I completed all that was required of me, and have been in good standing with the law in the almost 7 years since. I tend to think the “being in recovery” angle is TMI unless they are really pushing—it might freak them out more. I don’t make it a huge secret but I also don’t want to overdisclose or overdramatize something that is personal and completely unrelated to my work life.

        Thank you for the feedback. I will try to calm down and be patient. :)

  238. A Nony Mouse*

    Last month my work decided I should stop being full-time and start being part-time. There were no problems with my work, but my boss decided that some kinds of employee needed to be part-time. I was told there was a severance equal to 10 weeks pay (5 2-week pay periods) so I signed the Mutual Severance Agreement. But I got paid on Tues. and the amount added to my paycheck was just a fifth the severance amount. I talked to HR and they said that since the severance was based on 5 pay periods they would pay it in 5 parts. Is this the right way to do it? I think the whole thing is kind of Mickee Mouse.

    1. CAA*

      There’s no right way to pay severance. Sometimes it’s paid in a lump sum, sometimes it’s paid by keeping you on the active payroll for the duration of the severance period, which sounds like what they’re doing. They just have to do whatever they agreed to in the paperwork you signed.

    2. Anono-me*

      It might be well intentioned. Either an attempt at helping people who are bad at budgeting transition. Or/and an attempt to keep tax withholding at about your normal overall yearly rate (rather than having your tax bracket jump up with one lump sum in your check.)

      No matter what, the payment structure should have been clearly explained to you and everyone else before hand.

  239. Wrench Turner*

    63 hours this week and I’m exhausted. There’s a pattern of corrupt practices emerging at the office and I’m just too tired to deal with it. It’s getting stressful. At least it’s the weekend.

  240. Theo*

    I have been here before but I don’t remember what name I went by lol.
    so I finished this online certification on food safety, and now I’m applying to jobs again hoping to get into food production industry.
    (I don’t remember what Ask manager said about getting certification but it’s a low cost risk for me to do, and especially seeing a lot of jobs look for this requirement, and I see it as technical.)

    I also know that resume bombing is bad (I remember seeing this on this site, and also seeing it as an advise in other online sites.) but lately I feel like I’m only applying to like 1 job every 2-3 days that opens based on location and my “still fresh out of college 2 years ago and 0 industry” experience. is this common for people to not apply as much after not resume bombing? I think it also differs based on field and experiences and location, like an office job might have more opening than something more specialized. But is this common to just… narrow down the number of applications you apply after filtering based on your experience?

    2. Cristina in England*

      Yep, agree that it’s common. I don’t know about your industry but January can be a slow month in mine, just keep checking so you spot any new postings.

    3. Fortitude Jones*

      This is normal. Hell, I’ve been in the professional workforce for seven years and I still only applied to five jobs at most a week.

  241. TheExchequer*

    My employer has decided that they’re going to give prizes to people who park correctly. Because people don’t want to park six deep as we are being commanded. It’s a special kind of stupid.

    1. Julianne*

      Given the parking problems we’ve been having lately at my workplace, this pretty terrible idea might not be a bad idea…

    1. DwynywynLives*

      I have two friends who are affected. Woke up this morning and read the news. What mess. Also what I don’t get is how will it be possible for 45 to go to Davos next week for the WEF if the government is shut down?

  243. DwynywynLives*

    With 1600 comments this may not be seen but want to put it out there anyway.

    I am in grad school now. I graduate in September with an MSc. I am an American living abroad.

    My question for the American AAMers who are also expats in the UK, and in Europe: how long did it take you to find a job in Europe? I have taken 18 months off to do this programme, and am in the UK. I think about April or so is when I need to start thinking about jobs. I will be working on my thesis over the summer and will be working with folks in a UK government office so might want to try to find a gig with these folks or a related agency after graduation if at all possible. Not sure on getting a work permit for the UK – I have a permit now for up to 20 hrs per week as part of my visa so I assume, even with the Brexit confusion, it should be ok?

    Thoughts? Tips?

    1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      American expat living in the UK here, though I came on my own steam with an EEA family member visa. It took me almost a year to find a new job (actually about a year exactly as I had some paperwork bobbles with HR) and that was with a graduate degree and 13 years of work experience, the prior with a major international company. It was pretty brutal I have to admit, but we (my partner too) got there in the end.

      The sooner you can start the better, especially if you are going to anticipate working with recruiters because boy howdy finding good ones can be a needle in the haystack. Also, a lot of recruiters/potential employers may screen you out due to employment restrictions on your current visa, and recruitment tends to slow way down in the summer. I would start now identifying industries/companies and the recruiters that serve them, and also look into any “graduate” schemes that these companies run as they typically start in October. You may have better luck with the visa situation with programs at larger multi-nationals. Getting a job overseas is no easy task and “just falling into a job” here in the UK hasn’t been possible for a good 15 years at least. One thing you do have going for you is that you are currently in the country and have a UK degree, which will help.

      While you can work 20 hours on your current student visa, if you are offered a full time job for after graduation then you will need to switch visa categories, your employer will need to apply certain tests on your behalf proving they can’t find anyone else in the EU to do the same job and are willing (and registered) to sponsor you for employment, etc etc. I think you may also need to leave the country while your visa is being processed if you don’t have overlap, but don’t quote me on that. Its not impossible, but not every employer is willing to do this. I currently work in an agency sort of adjacent to the govt and we don’t sponsor so govt work may be difficult to obtain under sponsorship.

      Essentially – you can currently work 20 hours and apply for jobs to the end of your current visa period. Once that ends you must leave the country or have secured a different visa type that allows for employment. Stop by the forum at UKYankee – there are some very knowledgeable folks over there who can help with the paperwork and answer more complicated questions about your current visa status.

      Also, given the Brexit mess, you may want to consider applying for jobs either back in the US or onwards into the EU (if you have specialist capabilities) and not pin everything on the UK. Have a backup plan and a timeline in place if its just not going to happen.

    2. Maeve*

      Not sure about Visas, but it’s not so much Brexit but having a right wing anti immigrant government. As far as I know the minimum you need to earn to get a visa and the requirements are tighter than they used to be. Go and ask your Grand schools career department for help, they should be able to point you toward the correct procedures. I would start looking though, April is the new financial year and I always find job vacancies start appearing in feb/march in anticipation of getting more budget.

    3. AeroEngineer*

      As you will need to get a visa for the new work, I would start testing the waters soon. Larger companies will be able to deal with the visa issue much faster and simpler, so as Sprechen Sie Talk? says, the graduate programs might be a really good place to start. The hiring for some of them can start already, so take a look around.

      Since you will have a UK degree, it will be easier, but I would cast your net wider than just the UK, mainland europe is hiring a lot in some fields, but they will have to prove there is no equivlant EU person who could take the job etc, so it might take a lot of effort.

      Even with EU citizenship it can take a good number of months to get a job within europe, most of my friends started 6 months before and they still didn’t have a job when they graduated (it took a couple more months).

      Good Luck! Hopefully you buck the trend and can find something without much issue.

  244. Rox*

    I’v had to start searching for a new part time job due to safety concerns at my current job. I work for a fast food restaurant and recently it was refurbished with the kitchen being shrunk even smaller than it used to be. I’ve even heard one of the managers complaining that whoever had designed the kitchen had clearly never worked in catering. However I am almost on my final straw, I am close to quitting without a job offer. The other week I was almost knocked flying by another employee trying to get past during rush hour (it’s not his fault everything that used to be in reach is now at opposite ends of the kitchen and it’s horrendously noisy with all the beeping machines), if I had lost my footing there would have been nothing to stop me from falling except burning hot metal and the vats of boiling oil. One more accident like that and I may just end up quitting on the spot.

    1. Rox*

      However I’m not quite sure how to correctly go about quitting on the spot should I need to. I’m hoping to find another job soon but it’s only a matter of time before someone ends up in hospital with severe burns or a head injury if they hit their head on one of the work surfaces. Many of us have
      a whole load of new burn scars which can be directly attributed to the size of that kitchen.

      1. Temperance*

        I mean, quitting on the spot is what you do when you don’t care about burning a bridge. I used to work in food service, and a coworker of mine just walked out during our breakfast rush and came over to me and told me to tell our boss that she was quitting. That was a jerk move. Don’t be a jerk. Just tell your bosses that you can’t work in those conditions any longer.

    2. anonagain*

      That’s awful. I am so sorry and worried for you and everyone who works there. I don’t have any advice, just my sincerest hope that you’re able to find something else quickly and that you aren’t injured in the meantime. That is really scary and not okay.

  245. Purple snowdrop*

    I went back to work after a long time off sick this week.

    It was ok. But this restructure is just…. so not what I need. I love my job. I can cope with a lot of shit as long as I have my job. I’m scared of tailspinning if it goes, as seems likely.

    Argh.

  246. Anon for advice*

    Late to the party, but wondering if the hive mind has some advice on how to kindly tell a former student I can’t give her a good reference.

    The student worked with me some years ago, through a mentoring program at her college. At the time it went well, and while she needed some pushing and a fair amount of supervision, she was enthusiastic, tried hard, and did get some nice results. At the time, I gave her good references for grad school applications. A little later, my then-former boss asked if I’d recommend hiring her for some part-time work, and I did.

    However, I’ve since heard from several people that she was not good at the job, for reasons that were more about work ethic than it being a bad fit technically. An added wrinkle is that, while I don’t think the student knows this, I have close ties with the program and person hiring for the position she’s applying for. Based on what I know of her work and the position, she’s not a good fit and I couldn’t in good conscience recommend her.

    However, I did (and do) think she’s a fundamentally good person, just has some things to work on. (I think she gets overwhelmed easily, especially with personal things, and that seriously impacts her performance.) Also, she’s a first-generation college grad who’s had a lot of personal stuff go down, so I do want to be supportive and encouraging. I just don’t think I can give a sufficiently positive reference for this position.

    Can anyone recommend a kind way to respond, but still decline to give a reference?

    1. Sam Foster*

      Use the time since she was your student as the entry point:
      “It has been ‘x’ years since we’ve worked together and I think you would be better served by having references from more recent employers. Now that you have a work history, future employers will be much more interested in hearing from people you worked for/with and not just studied under.”

      1. Anon for advice*

        Thanks! I was thinking of something like this, since it has been a while (~5 years). I do wonder if she’s asking me because more recent references have also declined.

        It’s just a bummer situation, since I’m rooting for her but it sounds like the issues she had working with me have only gotten worse, not better. And having recommended her twice for things that haven’t worked out (the previous job and a grad program), I don’t feel like I can be a good reference for similar opportunities in the future.

        1. Thursday Next*

          I replied below, but I was wondering—do you know if anyone has talked to her about her performance issues? It sounds like she could use some mentoring around that feedback. Not that that’s your responsibility, unless you want to take it on.

          1. Anon for advice*

            When I worked with her it was through a college program geared towards helping to prepare first-generation college students for grad school and STEM careers. I know she got a lot of feedback and very involved mentoring through this program. I don’t know what her mentoring situation has been in the past few years, since I haven’t heard from her in a while.

            In retrospect, I wonder if her better performance when working with me was due in part to the program keeping her on track and providing some outside push. Unfortunately, I don’t have the ability to provide that level of aggressive involvement for her now, even if she wanted it. But I’m sure she’s gotten feedback on performance and expectations (at least while in college), so I think it’s more a matter of internalizing and acting on that feedback.

    2. Thursday Next*

      I think SF’s script is good. If your former student doesn’t accept it, you can repeat the script, working in “I don’t feel comfortable serving as your reference [because of the time that has elapsed]—I would be unable to speak persuasively to how your skills are relevant to this job.”

      If you feel like involving yourself to this extent, you could ask her who at her most recent position she feels could speak to her skills. But you may not want to, if you’ve heard negative reports from this person.

      I was once asked to provide a grad school reference for a student who never spoke in class, didn’t hand in all the required work, and earned average grades on work she did hand in. I tried to steer her to someone else, but she replied that her other classes were so large, none of her other professors would know her at all. It was a tough position for her to be in. Fortunately for me, the reference was a questionnaire which asked for ratings of skills, and not a traditional letter. I answered honestly but compassionately—I recall checking the “no basis for evaluation” box a lot.

      1. Anon for advice*

        Thanks! I think I’m going to take this route, and maybe also lean on the fact that this job is pretty different than what she did when working with me. (Even if I could provide an unalloyed positive reference, it would have to focus more on work ethic and character since I can’t speak to her specific ability to do this job’s duties.)

        I kinda feel for your student. I think a lot of undergrads don’t understand how important it is to cultivate relationships with a few of their professors/bosses, in terms of later references if nothing else. Sounds like you handled the request incredibly well, though!

  247. Not My Usual Name*

    Next week, I am going to an all day conference, related to work with topics which will be helpful for my job.

    The problem is that my former boss and co-workers may very well be attending. As I left the former job under less than ideal circumstances, I am trying to decide what to do if former workplace turns up and approaches me. As it will be a large event, I think I will be able to avoid them, but I want to be prepared just in case they do. Has anyone else been in a similar situation?

  248. Kat*

    Does anyone have tips on where to find blazers that don’t make a small-framed 34 year old look like a teen girl dressing up for her first job interview?

    I am trying to switch off cardigans in favor of something more structured. I can’t pull off girly/flowery/cute at all.

    1. Nye*

      I’ve had good luck with ThredUp for blazers. Obviously the selection is super hit or miss, but there are a lot of options and if you have an idea of the cuts that work best for you, you can order a few, try them on, and return what doesn’t work.

      In terms of cuts, I’m 5’2″ and a size 4-6, but fairly busty. What I’ve found works best for me are shorter cuts (hem does not totally cover my butt), with a single button. These seem to accommodate shortness better than longer, multi-button blazers. (In rereading, I’m not sure if you’re also short, but if you are, maybe this will help.) I also like fairly fitted sleeves and an interesting /relatively strong shoulder, though this may just be my ’80s childhood manifesting itself.

      I’m close to your age, and since starting my first post-grad school real job, my work “uniform” has become nice jeans, a shell/simple top, and a blazer. Have gotten several nice blazers and tops from ThredUp.

      1. Kat*

        Thank you! I’ll check them out. I’m not especially short at 5’5, but something about my otherwise small stature makes me look like I’m swimming in my clothes.

    2. Thlayli*

      I’m 5’2″ and a size zero petite. I’ve had luck with Ann Taylor for suits and the blazers could be used alone also. there is a big Spanish chain store in Europe that does great fitted petite blazers. Can’t remember the name.

      I suggest you check the petite sections of every store in your area and set aside at least 2 days of shopping for this (I am not exaggerating).

  249. Librarygeek*

    For reasons relating to my partner’s mental health, I need to move to Minnesota. I’m a librarian, with over five years of experience, and I’m currently our only source of income. I’ve been applying to anything I was qualified for (and feel I could do without making myself miserable). Over the past six months, I’ve interviewed about ten times, but I’ve had nothing beyond a few second interviews and I don’t know how to fix that. I’ve been doing my best not to radiate desperation and all that, but it’s…really depressing. I’m not looking to advance to a more prestigious/higher level position, I just need to be able to support us until my partner can get a job (social services/mental health care, there’s usually jobs open).

    What can I do better? I’ve asked (better-phrased) versions of that at my interviews and everyone seems happy with what I’m doing, but that hasn’t led to anything.

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I’m sorry to hear things aren’t going well. :( I’m a librarian in Minnesota – maybe I can be of some help.

      Your application materials are getting you to the interview phase, and it sounds like you’re getting some second interviews, so it could be something that’s happening in the interview – or, maybe it’s your out-of-state location. Sometimes (and this is from my experience of being on the hiring committee for library positions) being from out of state can be the thing that’s holding you back. At my library, for example, if two candidates have mostly the same qualifications and both did well in the interviews, we may favor the candidate who is closer. They can usually begin sooner, and my workplace doesn’t offer any paid moving expenses (or payment for interview-related travel). If candidates say they are already planning on moving to Minnesota, that can be a point in their favor.

      Out of curiosity, have all 10 of the interviews been for positions in Minnesota?

      1. Librarygeek*

        I wasn’t sure whether mentioning I was planning to move to MN was a plus; I’ll think about ways to add that, thanks. They have all been for MN, yeah. Not all of them ideal – a few pt rather than ft, some farther away from our support network than preferred – but all in Minnesota.

        1. AnotherLibrarian*

          That’s a good point! Maybe mentioning that you are hoping to re-locate to Minnesota would work against you at a different library – like, “I’m moving back anyway, so I’m applying for anything open in MN.” So…maybe take someone else’s advice rather than mine. :)

          If you don’t use it already, the Metronet Jobline website has a pretty comprehensive list of open library positions in MN. There’s also a Facebook group for MN librarians, which may be a first step in networking with some of us up here (not sure how helpful it would actually be, but you never know).

          I hope everything works out for you – it sounds like you’re under a lot of pressure.

          1. Librarygeek*

            Ah, yeah… I suppose that’s not good either. Bother.
            Yep, I’ve been using that and governmentjobs mostly. I’ll check out the FB group, thanks.

            I appreciate the advice!

  250. Porygon-Z*

    I’m really stressed out by the government shutdown. I know that historically feds have been given back pay, but that’s not a guarantee. And I was going to have a raise go into effect this Monday, so I have no idea if that’ll be delayed or if it’ll be reflected in my back pay. I know that’s a really specific situation, but do any of the feds who are here have experience with that?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’m going to do an open thread at 11 a.m. EST Monday for people impacted by the shutdown, so if you don’t get many responses here, that could be a good place to ask too!

  251. Editing My Resume*

    Hi,

    I wanted to know how I should revise/update my resume in this circumstance:

    My manager emailed me earlier in the week stating that I will be promoted effective this month. She indicate the new job title and pay raise in the email. However, as of today, HR still has not updated my employee profile yet and the pay increase is scheduled to come next payroll. So the profile still shows my original job title. I also don’t have much new duties yet.

    So how should I indicate my promotion in my resume and linked profile?

    Would it be a new line on top of my old job title:

    Promoted Title Jan 2018-present
    Original Title Aug 2015-Dec 2017
    -Job Duties
    -Job Duties

    or

    Just indicate the promotion as a bullet point under my original title and list I’m still under my original title as of today:

    Original Title Aug 2015-present
    -Job Duties
    -Promoted to New Title as of Jan 2018

    Thanks,

  252. Nye*

    I’ve had good luck with ThredUp for blazers. Obviously the selection is super hit or miss, but there are a lot of options and if you have an idea of the cuts that work best for you, you can order a few, try them on, and return what doesn’t work.

    In terms of cuts, I’m 5’2″ and a size 4-6, but fairly busty. What I’ve found works best for me are shorter cuts (hem does not totally cover my butt), with a single button. These seem to accommodate shortness better than longer, multi-button blazers. (In rereading, I’m not sure if you’re also short, but if you are, maybe this will help.) I also like fairly fitted sleeves and an interesting /relatively strong shoulder, though this may just be my ’80s childhood manifesting itself.

    I’m close to your age, and since starting my first post-grad school real job, my work “uniform” has become nice jeans, a shell/simple top, and a blazer. Have gotten several nice blazers and tops from ThredUp.

  253. Hard to handle*

    I overheard and saw a male manager telling the woman that works for him that “he’s tired of women being able to take all the maternity leave they want while men ‘bust their butts for 12 hours a day’ “. He pointed to a desk across the floor and said “that girl isn’t coming back for another 2 months!” and then pointed to another desk and said “that sh*it is due in May and she’ll be gone for another 3 months!”. Then finally he said “I’m not going to hire women between the ages of 30-35 anymore, that’s it!”. I’m a woman and OMG is all I could think. WTF is happening?! All of this was said in the middle of the day in an open office environment, everyone could hear it. Reporting this to HR would be a joke, they could care less (worse has gone on that has been reported and nothing happens). I would love to see an article on handling inappropriate situations like this in the workplace while they are happening. I didn’t know what to say, should I have walked over and said something? Now, I feel mad, sad, pissed off and angry that a man could say that about 2 women who work very hard and are having children.

    1. Book Lover*

      I think that would be legally considered a hostile work environment and you could look into legal options (rather than HR) if you wanted.

    2. Observer*

      Document your head off so you can take this to the EEOC eventually or give this to someone else.

      And start looking for a new job if you can.

    3. copy run start*

      Yikes! The best thing you can do is get a new job ASAP. Otherwise, if HR doesn’t care, maybe there’s a C-Level who would come down on him if made aware? Assuming they don’t already know? But that’s like tossing nukes into the open office plan at that point, so you’d need a strong exit plan anyway. Otherwise you can pursue legal remedies, but again, you’re probably going to want to change employers anyway. He is only 1/2 the problem here.

    4. MilkMoon (UK)*

      Send that prick here to the UK, maternity is a year if you want it, and most women (in my experience) do take the full year.

  254. AeroEngineer*

    Short question this time (as I am really late): Is it ever too early to connect with recruiters? I am looking for something in 2019, but my field is on the smaller size.

  255. Teapots Anonymous*

    I’m hoping some of you are still checking in here…

    I have a skillset that is fairly sought after in some countries, and more experience than most people in this field. A few months back a recruiter contacted me on LinkedIn to ask whether I’d be interested in interviewing with her company (on the other side of the world, literally). That would obviously mean relocating for me and my family. I said that I was interested but would have to discuss a move with my family.

    We went ahead with the interview process which took a couple of months because of the time zone difference and availability of senior team members who needed to interview me. During the whole process I made it clear that I was very interested in the role, enthusiastic about the company, but that my partner and I were not sure that this move was right for us and our kids.

    They decided to go ahead and make me an offer (it also took quite some time to get finalized because of people being away over the holiday season). The offer came through last week and is really good, but we are pretty sure now, that we don’t want to move to this country, at least not in the short term.

    Although I’ve been upfront about our uncertainty all along, I’m feeling really awkward about declining the offer. The process has been going on for months and my reasons for declining are very specific to our situation and not necessarily easy to explain.

    I don’t want them to feel as though I’ve messed them around and I also don’t want to burn any bridges, if possible.

    Any suggestions on how to handle this/what to say?

    1. Woodswoman*

      I think it’s fine to say you’ve had a family issue come up that prevents you from moving at this time. You don’t need to go into any more detail than that. These kinds of things happen for everyone who is considering relocating and hopefully that will be enough for them.

  256. overwhelmed*

    Feeling so pressured with work and school I want to just curl up and hide and eat Cheetos.

    Boss wants me to apply for a promotion — I want it, but I hadn’t considered going for it right now because I’m busy. I feel like I should’ve just said no the other day. :( Now I need to update my application materials.

    Work is busy and I am tired of propping up coworkers who know nothing. Stop calling me and crack open a book. Or Google. Everything I know is either a) in the textbooks work will lend you for FREE or b) widely available via Google.

    My professional certification is expiring soon, so I need to work on that somewhere in all this. I think this is going to be the ball that drops — hopefully it’s not a huge problem. (It’s not a legal requirement.)

    Just got scolded by a professor for scheduling a retake of a test without “his” permission. I’ve been studying for 5 additional weeks already and there’s a good 3 – 4 weeks between when I can schedule and when I can take it? I cannot afford to sink another two months into this class. I will probably need to go another semester as-is because of this… $$$$. Yes I failed a test… but it was a BS test and the materials given were NOT aligned with it. I know how to freaking study. I haven’t failed a test since high school!

    And assorted personal life baggage that is over the weight limit for the overhead bins.

  257. LM*

    What are your views on “job-hoppers” – e.g. people who jump from employer to employer after not spending all that long with them? What constitutes “long enough” at an employer for you? Do you think sometimes it is better to get out quickly if you know it’s not right, rather than wait (and waste) an arbitrary number of years there? I’ve am in my late 20s and have already had three employers in my relatively short professional career – the first I was with for 3 years 7 months, the second I was with for 1 year 4 months, and the third for 1 year 6 months. All of these were permanent roles, not contract or temporary. Also, they coincided with a gradual move from one industry/profession to another – so it wasn’t like I was just doing similar roles and hopping amongst competitors. Would this raise red flags – would you suggest that with my next employer I commit myself to staying for significantly longer?

    1. Someone else*

      The one with three years would prevent you from looking like a job hopper to me. That said, it’d look even less like it if the first two were the shortest, and the most recent the longer. When you’re straight out of school, it’s normal to have shorter tenures because if a position is super entry-level, it makes sense you’d outgrow it in a year or two, so short stays early in your career tend not to scream job hopper. I suppose the details on your resume would also clarify. Which is to say, there’s more than just the length that would lead to the “hopper” conclusion or dispell it. It’s the whole picture you’re painting. If each of your jobs were a step up, or one involved relocation, it’s going to look like logical movement, movement for a reason not just for the hell of it. If your current role is a really bad fit or a toxic environment, I’d say get out and don’t worry about seeming like a job hopper.

      1. LM*

        Thanks for your help! With the first one (3+ years) there was actually 2 roles as I had a promotion after 1 and a bit years, then stayed in the promoted role for 2 and a bit years. With the next roles there was not much opportunity for promotion or movement into other roles, as they were smaller organisations, which even my employers recognised, hence no hard feelings when I resigned to move elsewhere. Agree it is the picture you paint, thanks for that! I was getting caught up on number of years/months, instead of the story it tells.

    2. Sam Foster*

      My understanding is that anything over a year is fine. That being said, I had a professional career coach tell me the 4 years I have in my current role is a “long time.” I have no idea how to process that information.

      1. LM*

        Yes I’ve heard similar – e.g. that when you’ve been at a place 2 years you should start thinking about your next move, whether that’s upwards or laterally. As by then you’d become comfortable in your role and therefore not be learning or growing or stretching yourself anymore. But I think it depends on the nature of role! I’ve heard that more for office type roles, e.g. professional services or corporate support type functions, as opposed to areas of more technical specialisation. I guess if the nature of your role if fast changing too, then you’d still get learning and stretch opportunities beyond two years, er that’s due to technological changes or new client portfolios, etc.

  258. Yamikuronue*

    Was there a question about changing what name/nickname you go by after already being established in a job? I had thought there was, but I’m not finding anything.

  259. Samon*

    Even I was searching for the same question about name/nicknames but couldn’t find it. Have you found it Yamikuronue?

Comments are closed.