open thread – January 5-6, 2018

by Alison Green on January 5, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. I'M FREE, FREE AT LAST*

    I finally gave my notice today!!! It’s hard not to just run out the door laughing manically but I’m finally free!! I’ve only been here 7 months but it’s been absolute misery. I’ve drafted my Glassdoor review and am trying to shake off all the negativity before my next job. I, unknowingly at the time, lost out on some amazing opportunities to spend 40 hours a week bored out of my mind at the most unorganized, unprofessional hell hole and have probably set my career back a few years in the process.

    4. MilkMoon (UK)*

      Wahoo!

      I quit a job like that after five months last year – I actually saw the manager in the street at lunchtime today and he looked just as sour as ever! Like, bye Felicia!

    5. k.k*

      Congrats! And you know what they say about hindsight. We can all probably look back and see missed opportunities. So get that nonsense out of your head and focus 100% on the amazing feeling of knowing that you’re out of there and never have to think about that place again!

    6. KK*

      Congrats! Feels good, huh? I left an absolutely miserable job 2 years ago after 9 months of constant mental breakdowns and crying ugly tears after work. Happy for you!

    8. PB*

      Congratulations! My last day at my previous job was one of the best days in my life. I was walking down the street, carrying the remnants of a cake from my going-away party, beaming. I hope the last days at your job fly!

    9. Leah*

      congrats!!! I was also pretty pumped about leaving my last job. lots of people kept telling me the company would most likely beg me to come back once I left, since I was one of their best employees, but I just laughed them off. like I’d ever agree to come back! if they wanted to give me a promotion they should’ve done it way before I started dreading stepping into that office every single day. I was leaving the company and not looking back.

      good luck with future jobs! you’ll find something MUCH better real soon!

    10. Sunshine on a cloudy day*

      OMG – are you me? I’ve been in my current role about a year and I don’t have any offers yet, but your quote:

      “I, unknowingly at the time, lost out on some amazing opportunities to spend 40 hours a week bored out of my mind at the most unorganized, unprofessional hell hole and have probably set my career back a few years in the process.”

      This is my exact situation! I completely sold myself short by taking my current role (granted it was a huge step up in some ways, but in terms of career progress and responsibilitiy, major downgrade – I was aware it would be a half step down in terms of responsibility, but came with double the pay and I thought career growth potential, but it turned out to be about two steps backwards and has no career growth potential).

      Anyway, the fire has been lit under my ass. I’m actively searching now. And you give me hope – so thank you and congrats!!!

      If you don’t mind me asking – how did you explain why you were leaving? I think it’s a legit reason to be looking, but I’m struggling to articulate my reasons concisely and without saying “I made a mistake and the company mislead me on what the role would entail”. Which feels a little too close to badmouthing. Any advice on that front would be greatly appreciated!

      1. Justme*

        “I’m very concerned about the financial future of the company and I need more stability” always works well for me. In my case, it’s always been true when I’ve been job hunting. But regardless, if you have no faith in the management, or it’s horribly managed, the future of the company is , indeed, in question for you. When you use this reason, everyone nods sympathetically and the interview typically moves forward with no requests for clarification.

      2. pope suburban*

        Jutme’s suggestion is great. I went with something to the effect of “There is no room for growth with my current company, and I would like to keep developing professionally.” I worked for a really small business, so this was an easy thing to believe, and it wasn’t inherently negative- even though the place was an absolute hellhole in every respect. Having nowhere to go in a company isn’t an indictment, it’s just a sign of a mismatch in your goals and the company’s.

      3. Sonja*

        I’ve been going with “although I knew when I accepted the role that I would be travelling 50% of the time, the role has ended up being more than 80% travel.” Its sort of funny.. Everyone who works for this company seems to leave because of the travel, and yet travel is actually only one component of why I’ll be leaving. It’s just easier to say without badmouthing anyone then “they expect complete flexibility in all things from their employees, and are incredibly rigid in all matters on their end, plus the pay sucks and I’m being harassed and the work is dangerous and the hours are awful and they lied to me in the interview and… I suspect others have made the same wording choice.

        I’ll be gone soon. It’s going to be hard to bite my tongue when I quit, but I am looking forward to the challenge

    11. SebbyGrrl*

      Is anyone here working with VerbaLink?

      Would welcome any thoughts, insights, guidance for application documents.

      Also, I am a disabled veteran (for the purposes of this question/situation I cannot use the Chapter 31/VocRehab program but if you are aware of other VA programs I would welcome that info.)

      Desperately looking for working from home jobs/remote employment in admin., accounting or documentation, business writing.

      While not specifically a technical writer or editor, my skills lay in organizational documentation-procedure manuals/documents, reports, research, proposals, etc.

      I’ve been phishing, researching, looking but I have a feeling I don’t know where to look.

      I am using USA Jobs but, gah! Hard to find my niche there.

      Thank you!

      1. SebbyGrrl*

        …aaaannnnnd that posted to the wrong place – my word!

        Pages aren’t refreshing and I am addled with cold brain and other brain bugs today.

        Hope everyone has a lovely Friday and nicer weekend.

      2. Mananana*

        SebbyGrrl, USAJobs is definitely a challenge. I highly recommend Googling “Kathryn Troutman” and The Resume Place for the best advice on how to navigate that monstrosity. She’s the queen of federal resumes, and even if you don’t buy her book(s), she has several free resources on her website.

    13. Specialk9*

      I’m so pleased for you. Yay!

      But don’t mourn your lost opportunities too hard – sometimes life goes different than plan (in my life pretty much every time), and life comes back around.

    14. Fortitude Jones*

      Congrats! It wasn’t too long ago that I did the same thing (a little over a month), and it definitely feels good. Good luck on your new adventure.

    15. Former Employee*

      Congratulations!

      Once you are out of there and post your review, try not to look back at what might have been or how bad it was or how much time you wasted; look forward to your new job and advances that lie ahead.

    18. Solaire*

      Congratulations! I just did the same thing and feel very liberated.

      Do you have another job lined up?

    19. Tacos are Tasty*

      OMG did you work for my old workplace cause it sure sounds like it. It’s run by a Shane & Belinda, or as I prefer to call them, Silver Spoon & Coattails.

  2. Detective Amy Santiago*

    All right – so I mentioned in a few earlier open threads that I had a series of interviews in November/December and they decided to wait until after the holidays to make a decision.

    Should I email the recruiter today and follow up?

    1. Anony*

      I think it is too soon. If they said that they are not making decisions until after the holidays I would wait until at least half way though the month to follow up.

      1. Jascha*

        Agreed – it may be that they are starting the decision-making process after the holidays, which would mean they might need a week or two to actually get to the point of contacting potential new starters.

          1. Wendy Darling*

            Half of my office is still on vacation, the other half is digging itself out from under snowdrifts of emails, and I am trying to figure out why my computer is still terrible.

            In summary nothing useful appears to be happening this week.

      2. BadPlanning*

        Yeah, I have at least a couple coworkers who took this first week of Jan off as well. So they might not be back in the swing of this until mid next week.

      3. Snark*

        Yeah, I feel like most people are like “wait, what was I doing three weeks ago? Did I email that guy? What do” this week. I’d wait until at least next week.

      4. Madame X*

        I’m in the same position as you. I interviewed for a position in the second week of December and I was told in the interview that it would be early January before they send out any offers
        It was nice to hear from the recruiter earlier this week to let me know that most of the decision-makers were still out on vacation this week but that she would get back to me as soon as they got back in the office in a few days. So I’ve been patiently waiting but yeah it’s kind of hard to still be in the dark about what’s going on.

    2. Amber O.*

      I would say to give it at least another week. FWIW, at my company people are still using up carried-over vacation days through this week and those that are in the office are still getting caught up from time off during Christmas/New Years. The interviews we held in the beginning of December are still being discussed since so many people have been in and out of the office. Depending on the holiday calendar of the businesses you interviewed with, it could be a similar situation.

    3. Reba*

      I feel it’s still a little soon for that, though not inexcusably so.

      For example, my spouse’s office was closed between Xmas-New Year’s, and lots of folks also were off the day after NYD. So they really feel they’ve been “back” for 2 days! They definitely haven’t met about any of their candidates! A candidate did reach out on Wednesday and my spouse thought it was a bit strange.

      Good luck!

    4. WellRed*

      Yes, even if people are getting back to the office, there’s lot of digging out to do. If you are in a snowy area, that may also be literal digging out.

    5. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      Yeah, no. This is not after the holidays. People are still catching up on stuff from the last two weeks. If you are anywhere with snow, people are delayed and behind. Wait a week.

    6. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Thank you all for the reality check! I am impatient, but I do not want to torpedo my chances by being “that guy”.

    7. Jadelyn*

      We’ve had some recruiting going through the holidays and from that perspective let me tell you, honestly, pretend that the last three weeks didn’t happen, because functionally, they didn’t. So assume your recruiter is NOW, where you figured they would be three weeks ago, and give them the extra few weeks to get back to pre-holiday levels of productivity and decision-making.

      I have an interview team of 6 people for a set of 3 interlinked roles, and we still haven’t managed to finish first round interviews even though the first couple candidates got interviewed in mid-December, because there were a ton of overlapping and staggered vacations that meant none of us were in the office at the same time through the rest of December and even this week. I’ve had to let candidates know it’s going to be a bit longer than our original timeline, because the holidays mucked everything up.

    8. michelenyc*

      I don’t know what industry you are in but I disagree. I think you should follow-up. I had 3 interviews in December, had 2 this week, and already have 3 scheduled for next week (one of them is a 2nd interview). The recruiters (total of 4) I have been working with all told me to reach back out the first week of January. I did all but 1 has gotten back to me. I am in fashion so things might work differently in your industry. Given how competitive it is right now for me; I could easily miss out on a great opportunity by waiting.

  3. Terri*

    For people working in offices that use hot-desking, and are either hourly (or are required to fill in timesheets), do you include the time you spend setting up your workspace etc. (and time spent putting everything away at the end of the day) as part of the time worked?

    We switched to the hot desking system recently, and while it probably takes me around 5 minutes at the start and end of each day, it does add up over time, and I was wondering about the usual protocol.

    2. Anony*

      You should ask your manager about that. I would say it should count, but it is a grey area. I remember the court case where Amazon workers wanted to be paid for the amount of time they had to wait to be screened before leaving work to make sure they weren’t stealing and the supreme court said that they did not have to be paid for that time, so what seems intuitive to me and what is legally required are definitely not the same thing.

      1. Observer*

        The Amazon case (which I think stinks, but that’s another issue) was different because the screening is not actually part of the job, so even though it was required by Amazon the court ruled that it’s like commuting to work. But setting up your actual workstation is like turning on your computer , and needs to be paid for. In fact, even putting on protective gear (unlike, say taking off your coat) is considered work activity that needs to be paid for.

        1. MoinMoin*

          Agreed. I worked for a call center that would log time once you logged in, but the computers took forever to boot up. I think they were taken to court over a time dispute and ended up changing the process, though I don’t know about the specifics of the case.

        2. NeverNicky*

          Interestingly, in a similar case in the UK with SportsDirect the screening time was considered work time – the employees (mostly long term temps or on zero hours contracts) couldn’t leave the building without the screen. It’s just one of the abusive work stunts Mike Ghastley (sorry Ashley) is fond of in the name of pile it high sell it cheap retailing.

        3. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          Also agreed. I think setting up your actual workstation under a hot-desking arrangement would fall within paid time.

    3. TellMeNow*

      The moment I am at my desk, I am working. If hot desking means I have to set up my station -those are work responsibilities for which I am getting paid. And if work requires me to clear off my work station, then I’m doing that on company time.

    4. Chriama*

      It’s only 5 minutes, wrap it up into whatever takes you were doing immediately before or after and charge the time to that task. Setting up your workstation is absolutely work.

    5. Wendy Darling*

      I count the time I spend waiting for my godforsaken piece of crap work-issued laptop to decide it will in fact boot as working, because I am engaged in an activity I would 100% not be doing if I was not working. All the time I spend (daily) fighting with it because it’s crap also goes right onto my timesheet.

      I explicitly label those hours as laptop-fighting hours because my goal is to get a laptop that I do NOT have to spend 3+ hours a week fighting with, but in your case I’d just lump it in with whatever beginning/end of day stuff you do anyway (e.g. I spend the first 30 minutes of every day on inbox cleaning and putting stuff on my to-do list).

    6. snowbound*

      I usually count it – I tend to charge a bit of admin time every day so I include it in that but if it was mostly client work I would bill to the client.

    7. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      I can tell you that a previous employer was required by the DOL to issue back pay to employees because they were not being paid for the time it took for their computer system to turn on, so I’d assume you have to be paid for the time it takes you to set up your work space.

    8. only acting normal*

      Yes.
      My work has moved to super-hot-desking, in that you are supposed to move to whatever area suits a given task, potentially multiple times a day. I’d count it as work time every time I move; same as, for example, walking to a meeting room on the far side of the building and wrestling with the IT there at the start of a meeting.

      1. zora*

        ok 1. WHYYYY do they have to keep inventing more “things”??? Super-Hot-Desking? come on.

        and 2. This would drive me insane, I would feel so scattered if I had to move around all the time. Another thing to be grateful for today!

        1. only acting normal*

          It’s to fit more people into less space – i.e. not enough space for everyone to have their own desk –> let’s do hot-desking instead! Even less space? Try and encourage people to work anywhere but at a desk.
          Result, larks get in even earlier to bag a desk (think 6am, thanks to flexi-time), owls and anyone with a school run etc gets to perch somewhere with their laptop, or if they need specialist IT (big/dual screen for instance) they can turf someone off a suitably equipped desk.
          If people start desk-hogging (logging in then disappearing for most of the day) we’re supposed to self-police and turf them off… Now add in a British aversion to confrontation, compounded by STEM introversion tendencies*, and a high proportion on the autistic spectrum; basically imagine half the staff having anxiety attacks at the mere prospect of asking someone to move. It’s a perfect stress-storm. :(
          Some people do like it (or at least don’t dislike it). I am not one of those people.

          * How do you identify an extrovert engineer? They talk to other people’s shoes. ;)

      2. Optimistic Prime*

        This sounds incredibly disruptive. I don’t understand why anyone thinks this (or hot-desking, either) would contribute to the success of employees.

      3. copy run start*

        Well if they don’t even expect you to sit at a desk, what’s to stop you from working under the stairwell or from your car or the coffee shop down the road??

        It reminds me of trying to work on my laptop in college and constantly having to relocate due to weather or food restrictions or when I needed to charge. Misery!

        1. only acting normal*

          Nothing to stop you. The PTB sell it as flexibility (as opposed to disruption). The key bonus is being allowed to work from home whenever you want, the limitation being the kind of work you can do at home vs the kind that needs to be done in office (i.e. most of it).

    9. TheSkrink*

      I worked in a call center where we hot-desked, and the time you spent signing up for cubes, getting set up at the cube etc was counted as work time, as was closing out of the cube at the end of your shift.

    10. Justme*

      The company has decided to do business this way, therefore they’ve made setting up and tearing down your workspace a requirement of your job. I would absolutely count it towards your hours.

    11. Nacho*

      I’d ask your boss. My last two jobs didn’t have hot desking, but still allowed us to clock in up to 5 minutes early to get set up, so it’s certainly not an unreasonable request.

    12. Thlayli*

      I have always split tasks like this across all cost codes. So for example if I spend 1 hour a day doing admin and 3.5 hours each on two different projects, I would book 4 hours to each project.

      I would also include in my “admin” code time spent going to the loo, getting a cup of coffee, etc and at the end of the day just split it all out. I had a spreadsheet set up so I could just put in the current time and it would tell me how long it was since I last update it, I would then enter that figure in the row for the relevant cost code and it automatically goes back to zero. Then at the end of the day I had a really accurate amount of time spent on each code. But I’m a bit OCD like that – most people would just guess like “I spent half a day on this, 2 hours on that etc”.

    13. Tad03102*

      Do a Google search for the portal to Portal act. It deals with quite a few grey areas when it comes to determining when an employee should be paid.

      Since you are spending this time to benefit the employer (setting up your workspace) it should probably be paid.

      My employer actually requires us to punch in and out on a mobile device or by calling a telephone number because the time it takes for a computer to boot up is considered compensible time.

  4. Sunflower*

    I’m struggling with maintaining my mental sanity and confidence while I try to get out of my job.

    I wouldn’t call my work environment toxic but my team is the red headed step child of my dept. Resources and promotions are given out to other teams while we struggle and are told no on everything we ask for even if they help the business. It often feels like I need to defend my job being here even though I work more hours than anyone else. I know this is true because other people confirm that my team has always had a target on our back- before I even worked here. People tell me they trust me more than my boss but won’t complain about my boss to anyone. I’m still only told that I’m doing a ‘great job’ while nothing else materializes.

    My career has always been very important to me and I’ve always been a hard worker. I like my job day to day but it’s so hard to come in and know all the hard work I do is getting me nowhere here. It makes me want to proclaim anytime someone asks me to do something ‘Why would I put anything more than minimal effort into this’. This also makes me feel crappy about myself and start wondering if it’s my job that sucks or if it’s just me. I’m applying to jobs left and right(which is always a struggle since there is so much rejection with that that I know isn’t personal) but I’m not just trying to change jobs- I’m also relocating to another city so the stress(and fear!) of that is also on my shoulders.

    Work has always been a bright point for me so this is especially a struggle- esp since I don’t have a lot going on in my personal life. I already go to a therapist but my confidence is in the toilet.

    Has anyone dealt with something similar?

    1. Pickles*

      Yes. And I’ve also found that the best way to get through is to keep doing what you do as best you can, because that’s the fastest way to get out. YMMV, but it’s helped me look like a superstar and get recruited away from disaster environments. Good luck! Remember to keep breathing.

    2. Lil Fidget*

      I have definitely felt like my department was disfavored. And we probably were – we were programmatic (EG, spending money) while other more well liked departments were connected to fundraising. There was nothing to be done about it except cultivate a sense of teamwork within our department – we were very close knit – and mention it in the exit interview.

    3. Smithy*

      I was absolutely in your position literally just four months ago. To confirm all the bad things you likely already know – in that situation hard work and effort will not help and may even serve to hurt you at that place. Therefore make being at work as functional as possible. Do what needs to be done and do not get tricked into any periods of slight improvement. I found that when I was in that red headed team, it became so easy to be mentally tricked that things could improve.

      On top of that really take care of yourself outside of work. Get good sleep, eat well, do things that make you feel good – because work will not. Also, if there are others on your team also super aware of this – start over complimenting your teammates. They’re likely also suffering this – and if you can start internally cheerleading, that definitely feels better than nothing. Also it can replace internal team griping that may ultimately make you feel worse.

      I went through this for about a year and a half before I got a new job and left and also relocated (in addition to things just taking time, see that bit about “do not get tricked”). So I really do empathize – but all the self care you can do internally and externally is super critical.

      1. Specialk9*

        Great ideas with self care, complimenting coworkers, and putting limits to work. I found that in an impossible work situation we all complained nonstop, and it was corrosive. It a was a big lesson.

    4. Mrs. D*

      I know how you feel. I worked in the for-profit education industry for 5 years (and left because of a number of personal and professional reasons, but that’s another discussion). The company that owned the school I worked at had quarterly awards that each site could nominate employees for. The catch? Only the departments that helped with compliance and profit qualified. I was not in any of those departments, so while I was sometimes recognized one-on-one by my boss, a lot of what I did went unnoticed by the school and parent company as a whole. It was demoralizing. It made me feel like my work didn’t matter, even though the department I was in was crucial to the overall operations of the school.

      So what you’re feeling is, at least in my experience, normal. It’s not just you. I’m not sure what your therapist has recommended, but I found it helpful to list out a few things that I kick ass at, or note down a project or two that I know I was crucial in. “I completely organized the entire library collection! I helped that student get the contact he needed for X! I tutored that student that was struggling and finally understood Y concept!” The bonus? All of the things I listed could be tweaked to add on to my resume (and sometimes that helped me add things I had forgotten).

      What might also help is finding something outside of work that you like to do so that your work doesn’t becoming your one defining characteristic. It’s great to have a career as your priority and work hard, but it doesn’t have to be everything about you. Find a hobby: read, go birdwatching, build model rockets, start quilting, museum-hop, dance, anything that brings you joy. As you develop your likes outside of work, that may help you to feel more personal accomplishment and confidence, and can help develop more internal and external balance.

    5. Fenchurch*

      Here’s what I have done in the past. I keep track of the things I do well and am proud of. I have a folder on my desktop I labeled “TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!” It’s full of positive feedback emails, little notes of things I have accomplished, etc. It helps me when I’m feeling down to look at them and to feel proud of what I have done.

      It’s easy to forget how awesome you are when what you do isn’t fully appreciated. Give yourself a pat on the back and keep track of these things (they are great interview fodder as well).

      You don’t need others to set your self worth, and I know that’s easy to say from the outside, but know you are great regardless of recognition.

    6. Leah*

      Yes, I went through a similar situation at my old job. I worked as a first level support, and took calls + answered e-mails from either my own coworkers or clients, trying to fix and troubleshoot fairly simple hardware and software problems, and the part that I most liked about it was being able to talk and help and connect with people, and of course, seeing my beautiful, juicy numbers at the end of the month – I had an 80-82% first level resolution rate, as opposed to the average of 70-75% my coworkers had.

      I did such a good job my bosses loved me and pretty much every big IT manager and director in the company knew who I was, but because of that, they didn’t want me out of the support team. I was too good to be promoted, basically. While there I had two occasions where higher-ups privately hinted that I should start learning another language for a potential promotion that people were thinking of offering me, and after spending money out of my own pocket on a language course for an entire year and never hearing anything about it again, I gave up on the course. I was never formally approached about any sort of promotion. I never even got a raise for the three whole years I was there.

      After a while it was hard to be content about work knowing that the skills I was learning would only get me another job as first level support if I ever left the company, and it was awful to think that the company didn’t even care enough to make me more qualified at anything else. I got to a point where I felt like I’d learned as much as I could in that position, and because I was so good at it they didn’t want me to ever EVER grow out of it.

      I was at my worse when I was at that company. Depressed, unmotivated, unhappy. But in the end, I did the same thing you’re doing: I started job-searching. It felt awful to not get any responses for the first few weeks, but I kept insisting, knowing I’m more than good enough and that any other company would be lucky to have me, and how sucky it would be for my current company when I left. And even with the financial crisis my country’s going through, I eventually ended up landing a great job, which is where I am now. I got much better when I managed to convince myself that my days in that company, no matter what happened, were soon to be over. I didn’t know yet how long I was still going to work there, but I was actively moving on from it while still there, and that helped.

      So, my advice to you is: keep looking. Don’t give up. And leave work at work. When at home, disconnect yourself from it. If you need to vent, try not to dwell on it too much; vent a little, and then change gears, talk about your moving plans, fangirl about that movie you’re excited about, sit in the bathtub and sing along to your favorite album. Press the “fuck it” button. They don’t give a shit about you, then you absolutely should not give a shit about them outside work hours. Keep working as well as you can, don’t let your usual quality drop, but don’t push yourself too hard either – on busy days I’d go all day without getting off my desk, not even to go to the bathroom, just so we didn’t miss any calls, BAD LEAH.

      I hope you find another job soon, and that it ends up being easier staying in your current job while you don’t. Hang in there, Sunflower!

    7. Kate*

      Been there. It helped me to cultivate my out-of-work interests, to add a little balance to my life. Volunteering has been especially helpful. I now volunteer with a refugee non-profit in a capacity that uses my professional skills, and occasionally present to/speak with students through my college’s alumni association. I’m helping others, and I get to remember that my value as a professional isn’t limited to just this one job at this one point in time.

    8. Justme*

      Yes. I could have written this post about a month ago. Then they fired my boss. Now things have calmed down, everyone is getting along, and our new manager is finding ways to get us more integrated with other groups. I don’t really have much advice for you, other than this: if the problem is your boss and it looks like his/her days are numbered, you may want to hang in there and see what happens.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Your last paragraph is similar to what happened to me. I realized one day that work filled up my life, I had not too much going on other than work. I considered it a good life lesson to see this. We have to have different aspects to our lives because at any point one of the aspects could tank. As kids stuff is foisted on us, “Here’s your family, here’s your school/church/dance lessons/etc. But as adults that mostly vanishes unless we decide to create something new for ourselves.
      Right now, between your job and your job search you have a LOT on your plate. You might like to consider small activities that help you recharge. This could be anything, mediation, gym membership, joining a club, or whatever else hits you as being a good idea. Keep it small so that you actually do it. And pick strategically, pick something that actually has some meaning to you and to your life.

    10. Linyarri*

      I think you are on the right path. Do the best work you can and watch for opportunities (including job searches). I know it is frustrating to do a job when you know there will be no reward or support. For me working hard and keeping busy helped to keep my mind off the frustrations. Don’t give up, the good reputation you are building can pay off in the end.

      I’ve been stuck in dead end positions many times at my last job, but only twice here. The first time, the position I held was eliminated. I kept my head down and looked for something to do. I love Excel, so I would ask folks from my old department if they had Excel files I could look at and see if I can improve. Everyone here uses Excel heavily so there was always something I could do.

      About a year later folks figured out that my title belongs to a position that no longer exists. The VP of Ops moved me into a newly created team (with a raise) and loaned me out to Sales to fix their Excel reports. When the new team was eliminated, the Sales VP shifted me into the sales team (another raise).

      Once I automated all the sales reports and had nothing left to do, I touched bases with an old friend and started working with the excel files from her office. When a position opened up with that office I managed to pick that up with another raise. I wasn’t really a good fit for the job description but I knew their reports and had direct access to the databases. My current boss is much more aware of my needs and constantly gives me odd things to do from leadership & across the division. After a few years my workload was way above my pay and I received a huge promotion (25% inc).

    11. Samiratou*

      Is there any chance of it changing anytime soon?

      I had something kind of similar–I was put in charge of a foundational, yet largely invisible process with no resources and kept it together with duct tape & bailing wire until last year when TPTB realized that we’ve been sitting on a goldmine of data for approximately forever but treating it like shit and all of a sudden there was will to fix things. It was rather dispiriting for, like, 6 years but I had other things to keep me occupied and I knew my boss understood the importance of it, it just took time to get the people in charge of money to realize that just because it can’t be monetized directly (yet) that it’s not important and can’t help us dramatically improve retention & the bottom line. I’m now moving forward with my plans for world domination so it was worth it to stick it out.

      However, I knew that eventually people would come around so even if it was frustrating and dull at times I figured it would end, eventually.

      If your situation is not likely to ever change, though, that’s different. Can you focus more on the individual level? I could always at least take comfort in the fact that I could help individuals solve their problems and answer their questions (most of the time, anyway) while waiting for the big picture stuff to come around.

  5. Dibbly-Fresh*

    (If this isn’t okay for the work thread please let me know and I’ll post tomorrow instead).

    Going for a walk down memory lane at my parents’ place over the holiday season. I had a flip through some old Baby-sitters club (I can never remember where the dash and apostrophe are meant to go…) books.

    For people born in the late 80s/early 90s, you probably remember the tedious exposition that came with every book describing every member and their club roles. Re-reading that now I can’t help but think that these girls would ace any job interview they’d have – assuming they resist the urge to describe their friends’ appearance in minute details. They’d have a ton of experience in dealing with clients, handling admin (collecting dues etc.) and project management (how many outings/plays/carnivals/fund-raising events etc. have they organised at the tender age of 13?), and they’d probably have a scenario for every behavioural interview question out there.

    I wonder if they did a ‘reunion’ type books (say set 20 years after they finally graduate 8th grade) whether they’d still have them working in the area they picked out at 13 (Claudia an artist, Stacey something to do with maths, etc.). I think these books really skewed my perception of when people figure out their career path (13? I’m 33 now and only just starting to be sure). Ah, youth.

    1. selina kyle*

      I’m honestly surprised there hasn’t been a reboot/revival of the books with all the new “darker” “grittier” franchises – Riverdale, I think we’re getting a Scooby Doo movie in the next couple years. I used to love the books and I think a follow-up of like “here’s where they are now” could be fun. I’m sure some writers have posed the question on a website somewhere (it feels like a very Toast-type article).
      My favorite was always Stacey, but I do wonder if that’d change on a reread.

      2. Dovahkiin*

        I would 100% love a dark and gritty BSC reboot.
        Dawn 100% got really into burning man.
        Claudia & Stacey definitely share a loft space in NYC.
        After a long stint on the USA women’s softball team, Kristy is returning back to Stoneybrook to coach an elite club softball team…she runs into Mary Ann, recently widowed. Sparks fly….

        1. selina kyle*

          See, I always thought it would be Kristi and the “snotty” rich girl, Shannon, who lived near her step-dad, but I would be on board with what you suggested 100%. Stacey and Claudia definitely live in NYC, Mary Ann has a cute kid and teaches, Jessi dances somewhere and Mallory writes webcomics about the whole crew’s adventures as teens.

      3. Temperance*

        I think it would change! I always seriously hated Kristy. I wonder if I still would. There were some jock girls in my class that I hated, and I think I pushed that on Kristy. It also always think about how she got to live in a fancy house and could go to a fancy school because of her stepdad and she chose to wear a sweatsuit everywhere.

        I always thought Dawn was the coolest, but I was a total Mary Ann without her Logan.

      4. Amey*

        Did no one else read California Diaries, the genuine BSC ‘edgy’ spin off with Dawn in California? No? Just me then…

        2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          I did! I loved Dawn, but I didn’t really love the spin off. But maybe it was an age thing? (i.e., maybe it was at the point that I grew out of the books?)

          1. Kelly L.*

            It was for me. I knew the spinoff happened, but by the time it happened, I’d outgrown the books.

            Just checked a list of them, and the last one I’m totally sure I read was Dawn’s Big Date. I remember her cutting weird holes in her clothes and stuff.

    2. Blue Anne*

      I remember that section of the books! I would always skip it.

      But yeah, I agree. It was great professional experience. I also liked how there was information and support for girls to set up real life Baby Sitters Clubs.

      2. Elizabeth H.*

        I just re-read this for I think the fourth time. It is so great!!! I wish she would do other series!

        (I also LOVE Riverdale. I started watching it on a whim while on a seven-hour flight coming back from Christmas last week, and I’m hooked.)

        1. Mephyle*

          My Riverdale-watching twin! I had never heard of Riverdale, but I started it on a trans-Pacific flight and watched the first 8 episodes, then finally fell asleep, which made for a weird transition from Asia to the Americas.

          1. Elizabeth H.*

            I only got 3 and 3/4 episodes in (I was flying from Ireland to Boston and didn’t start until half way through the flight). SO excited to watch the rest of it.

        3. Middle School Teacher*

          I love Riverdale!! The new episodes were on Thursday night for me, so it was a great setup for my weekend.

    4. Malibu Stacey*

      But how smart were they if they were in 8th grade for about 5 years (while I still read them) ;)

    5. Susie*

      I couldn’t get enough of the series when I was younger. Now that I’m an adult though, I sometimes wonder how insane/desperate these parents must be to trust a 13-year-old girl (and sometimes a 11-year-old) with their babies/toddlers. Was it really just a different time? In any case, I suspect the premise wouldn’t resonate with most kids born in this century.

      I don’t know if Kristy would necessarily be an athlete. I imagine she’d come out of the closet at this point though.

      1. selina kyle*

        FWIW I babysat (not for actual babies, but younger kids) at about 13 – I think it might be a small town thing? But also I love the general consensus that Kristy was/is gay. (I read somewhere that Ann M. Martin had a girlfriend!)

      2. brrrr*

        I don’t know – the Red Cross as far as I can tell still teaches their babysitting course to 11 year olds. My parents neighborhood is filled with kids I babysat for when I was 11-17 who started babysitting for the new babies that moved in when they were in the 11 to 13 range.
        Infants might be harder than a 5-6 year old but it’s fairly common at least in suburbs/quasi rural towns where there may not be a fleet of high school or college kids.

        1. Jadelyn*

          I’ve had the same thought – I babysat when I was 12 and 13 (quickly stopped because I learned I didn’t like being around small children, even for money), and I look back now and think, HOW in the world did people trust 12-year-old me with their children? WHY?

      4. Temperance*

        I wonder if it’s regional. I was watching little kids around age 13, so I don’t find that shocking.

      5. MI Dawn*

        I was babysitting my infant sister (5 years younger) and cousins (7, 8, 11 years younger) when I was 7 and up. I had a “summer job” babysitting an infant when I was 12 – the mom worked and the house was just up the street. Wasn’t at all uncommon when I was growing up in the midwest in the 1960s. Generally, these were all daytime, summer jobs for a few hours. Night-time sitting didn’t usually start until 14 or so, and you were usually home (driven by the father! Gasp! Alone in the car with a strange male!!) before midnight.

      6. Kelly L.*

        Different time. I babysat at 13 too. I had so much less freedom than they did, though. I think the other reason is that the books were aimed at slightly younger girls and the babysitters were supposed to be kind of glamorous and grown-up, maybe, but not so old as to be unrelatable? It’s like how the Sweet Valley High kids always seemed older than sixteen. 13-year-olds were supposed to read SVH and think “wow, high school is gonna be so rad!”

      7. Elizabeth H.*

        Yes, back in the day people definitely babysat at these young ages. My mom did when she was 11 and 12. I’m pretty sure she encouraged me to babysit when I was 12 or 13 or so (which was in 1999). And I knew people who babysat in eighth grade and definitely ages 14 and up.
        I also wonder if part of the reason this has changed is that it’s less common to have families with multiple kids ranging in age – when families were larger, kids would have more experience taking care of their younger siblings, needing to take responsibility for watching them etc.

      8. Mints*

        Hm, I’m 26 and babysat starting at 13. Ten years ago doesn’t seem like a different time, haha. I’m in a city in California so I’m not sure the “regional” guess makes sense either

      9. Jynna*

        Yeah, I started babysitting my two cousins who were probably 8 and 4 when I was 12. Eight hours a day, Monday through Friday, from when school let out in summer until the week of the county fair right before school started back up again. I made $100 a week.

      10. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

        Our local hospital teaches a babysitting first aid course to 11-17 year olds. I was babysitting by age 13 for actual babies. I wouldn’t have let a 13 year old babysit my kids though. Although, I would totally recommend my 14 year old for kids not needing diapers changed.

      11. Amy S*

        So many people on here commenting that they babysat at that age and in hindsight wonder how/why parents were ok with that….but presumably everyone here that babysat as a 13 year old did ok and the babies being sat turned out fine, right? I don’t think it’s that crazy that a 13 year old would be in charge of watching kids. Not that you’re saying this at all, but it makes me think about all the people who say that kids today are not as responsible as we were when we were young…but then don’t necessarily want to give young people the opportunity to actually BE responsible. Again, NOT saying that’s what you said…just making an observation.

        1. Susie*

          Don’t get me wrong, at 13 I was in charge of my 5-year-old and 3-year-old cousins. Did they turn out fine? They’re still alive and not in any legal troubles, if that’s what one means by “fine.” Would I leave my own kids with my 13-year-old self for longer than two hours at a time? Not unless I was in some kind of emergency and had no other choice, and even then I would leave a lot of tips and call often.

          I think a lot of this goes back to the unfair pressure people put on teenage girls to be mature, responsible, and generally good role models for younger girls (i.e., How many people really would trust a 13-year-old boy with their babies). It’s fine to give kids the opportunity to be responsibility, but not if one sex is expected to be more responsible than the other even though they’re of the exact same age.

          1. Elizabeth H.*

            Hmm – it definitely wasn’t the norm but I knew several male classmates who babysat as teenagers. I acknowledge though that this tended to be high school age boys (14-16) or so.

        2. Specialk9*

          I babysat from 12 onward, but it was either “mother’s helpering” (parent home but busy – and yes this is making your point about sexism) or in a team with another 12/13 year old. We used to babysit, then clean the house (memorably, I got a call from the parent later: thanks for babysitting and cleaning up, but… Did you clean the inside of the oven?! Yes, yes we did, overachievers that we were.). When I was older (14?) I babysat solo.

          As a parent, 16 is the earliest I’m comfortable with, but really I prefer paying adult daycare teachers, who I know and they’re certified and experienced.

      12. Not So NewReader*

        I am not sure exactly what the differences were, probably a combination of things. Children were given substantial responsibility at young ages. I can remember my father said he had his first job at age 7. He helped deliver bread on Saturdays (1927). He also indicated that the “older kids” meaning his age, were expected to help watch and raise the younger kids.

        I saw a push back with my father and some people his age, when they decided that their kids were not going to have to go to work as young nor work as hard as they did. My father and some peers talked about “letting kids have an actual childhood”.

        My husband grew up in the 50s and he got a job delivering papers when he was old enough to be responsible on a bicycle. The difference between my husband’s experience and my father’s experience was that my husband was allowed to keep the money he earned, where as my father bought food for the family with his.

        No big scientific study here, just random observations of how different generations approach work and in turn develop work ethics in their kids. I kind of think about that fact that we have luxuries other generations did not have. One luxury they did not have was that they absolutely HAD (or believed they had to) to have their kids pitch in and start working ASAP.

        1. Thlayli*

          That’s still the reality in most parts of the world. Kids work. We are exceptionally lucky to live in developed countries.

          1. Specialk9*

            I’m in a developed country, and I started working outside the house at 12 – babysitting, housesitting, dogsitting. My brothers had lawn services. We all painted house numbers on curbs, and shoveled. I worked lots of hours too, and never really stopped working. I worked through university, and later worked nights and weekends at my apartment front desk on top of an office job.

            That said, I’ve lived in developing countries, and it’s a different need.

      13. Thlayli*

        I think it was a different time. I babysat when I was 14 lots but not sure about when I was 13. From 14 though I was definitely full on in charge babysitting for money (of up to 4 kids). Made a lot of cash that way.

      14. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

        I think it was a different time. I definitely “baby sat” my siblings from about the age of 9 on, and I babysat strangers beginning at the age of 14/15. (My parents wouldn’t let me babysit at a younger age, but 13 was pretty common.)

        I found most folks were ok with teenagers babysitting kids who were 4+ years old. 15 seemed to be the “lowest” age for babysitting babies/toddlers who were not related to you.

      15. OldMom*

        I baby sat at that age (in the 70s) and also occasionally used young babysitters at home when I was a mom in the 90s. In my experience, responsible young teens are more willing and easier to find to babysit. Once they hit 16 they are out driving, dating etc. and can get other jobs. My brother also babysat as a teen but only for boys. (I recall he got fired from a job for looking at the dad’s playboys…my attitude was how could you leave that stuff around (it was on their bathroom magazine rack) and expect a teenage boy not to check it out? I looked at them too but maybe I was more careful not to rumple the pages.)
        Now? You can find sitters on the internet and their rates are higher than I could have afforded. Long way from my 50 cents an hour back in ‘70. (Anyone remember what the BSC rates were?)

        1. Lany*

          Yeah, I babysat my cousins between 12 and 16, but when I turned 16, I was expected to get a “real job”.

    6. Kelly L.*

      Mary Anne was apparently the author’s self-insert, so the attention to detail in the series isn’t surprising in retrospect. ;)

    7. Mrs Kate*

      There is a podcast called the Babysitters’ Club-Club and it is amazing. Two 30-something literary guys reading the series and providing commentary. I think I’m on the 50th or so podcast.

      1. Feline Mind*

        I came here to say this! I loved the books and I can’t get enough of this podcast. I would also love to see some kind of reunion/reboot of this series as a Netflix series of them as adults or something. :) I’m a total Mary Anne.

      2. Amy S*

        I was just coming here to share this as well! Such a great podcast. It’s been a real trip down memory lane. Hilarious.

    8. KK*

      As a girl who was born in ’93, I read “Babysitter’s Little Sister”. It was the story of Karen, the 7-year-old younger stepsister of Kristy. Boy, did I love those books. :)

  6. Not a Real Giraffe*

    We are looking to hire a replacement for my boss, who left about two months ago. We’re a small team of four when fully staffed, but right now are only a team of two, and the work we do requires us to work very closely together, sometimes for long hours or several days at a time. Thus, it’s important that we like each other and get along in addition to being good at our individual jobs.

    Our interim boss and the Big Boss are heading the search for the replacement. None of the candidates’ resumes have been shared with the team, nor have we been involved in any of the interviews. Yesterday, I overheard them making reference calls for one of the candidates, which signals to me that they’ve identified their top candidate and are close to making an offer. I am flabbergasted that they’ve gotten this far in the interview process without including the team members that this person would be managing. (On top of that, none of the questions asked during the reference call seemed to focus at all on their ability or experience in managing a team, which makes up a good chunk of this person’s role.)

    Is this normal?

    I have a meeting today with my interim boss where I’m planning to ask for an update on the search and inquire about the team’s involvement in the interview process, but want to calibrate my expectations before doing so.

    1. straws*

      I think it’s common, although not a great approach. I don’t think it would be unreasonable to ask for an update and if you’ll get the meet the person/be involved. It’s possible that they’re just running through a process, and you’ll alert them to the idea that the team should be involved!

    2. Sunflower*

      This is what happened in the search for my boss. When I asked for updates, I was given very vague responses like ‘we really like this person’ or ‘we’re close to making an offer’. My team was not involved at all and my boss never met us either before- which I found odd. I also think my new boss has never managed a team before which I think was a huge flaw in our last manager.

      TBH I found it really weird but I didn’t have any control over the process. I would ask but don’t be surprised if the answer is ‘you’re not involved’

    3. Adele*

      This seems normal to me. When on an interview panel there are lots of legal and data protection sensitivities and in the UK at least SOP is not to discuss candidates until an apointment is made. Also normal that people senior to the interviewee positiin would make up.the panel. I have never come across a team being consulted about their potential manager.

    4. Sunny*

      Your boss is there to fulfill the desires/needs of the company, not to be liked by you. I think it makes perfect sense that subordinates don’t choose their own boss. If you like candidate B best, but the company wants to go with candidate A, there’s a reasonable worry that the relationship between current staff and A would get off to a poor start, because you’d be comparing A to B and finding A lacking. With no comparison, it’s more likely you’ll find A acceptable.

      1. AshK434*

        Eh, something about this comment rubs me the wrong way. I think the OP had a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why it makes sense for her team to be involved in the hiring process. In fact, lots of other teams involve teams in the hiring process because they know that having harmonious working relationships is important.

        1. Sunflower*

          Yea…I don’t think OP is expecting to be the final sayer in all things but I think how you vibe with the team is a huge part of taking a job. If someone found a candidate to be that unacceptable then they probably wouldn’t vibe with them regardless of if they met other candidates.

          1. BRR*

            I got the same feeling that the OP wasn’t saying they should be the decision makers. I think it’s common but not smart to not involve direct reports. Not only for the benefit of your current employees but if I was interviewing I would like to meet who I was supervising.

      2. Jadelyn*

        I don’t think anyone was suggesting that the team be the ones choosing, just that they be involved, even just being able to meet the candidates.

        I mean, we hired a temp assistant for my team last year, and even though she was “just” temp and “just” entry-level, we made a point of making sure she spent at least a couple minutes chatting with all six of us, on the logic that since her role supports the whole team, we need to involve the whole team, even though the final decision was my grandboss’s.

      3. Not a Real Giraffe*

        A couple things here: I recognize that the boss is there to fulfill a business purpose, but in order to do so, we have to work as a team to achieve a common goal. The people who are conducting the interviews are not experts in our area of the business, whereas the team knows the ins and outs of the work and are actually quite qualified to assess how this person could fulfill the needs/desires of the company.

        Secondly, I’m not asking to be a decision-maker, as others have already noted, just to be involved. I have to work very closely with this person every single day, I think it would make sense to ensure we are people that want to work with each other.

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          Your reasoning made sense to me, and I agree – it probably would have been better for you and your coworker to have sat in on the interviews to determine fit. I’d make that point to your grandboss, but then let it drop since they seem to be too far along in the process to do anything about it now. However, if their top choice(s) pass or they do end up hiring someone, but that person doesn’t end up working out for whatever reason, maybe grandboss will remember what you said and involve you and your teammate going forward.

        2. NacSacJack*

          It’s the expectation that the person get along with management, not necessarily existing staff, which is why when upper management changes, they often bring their own people in and move existing staff out.

    5. Trout 'Waver*

      Perfectly normal. A meet-and-greet with the short list is common, but I wouldn’t expect any more than that.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        Yeah, I’m a bit concerned that a meet ‘n’ greet (which is really all I’m asking for here) hasn’t been scheduled or brought up. I would think that the candidate would want to meet the team s/he may be supervising, if nothing else!

    6. AshK434*

      I think it’s pretty normal although ill advised. From my own personal experience, the jobs I’ve enjoyed most were the ones where I was able to meet my potential team during the interview process.

    7. Lil Fidget*

      So, so normal – and so, so frustrating!! I was also left off of a search committee for a person that I dotted-line supervise, which was super irritating. But it can be a power thing for higher ups, they want to place “their” person. Being the chooser in some workplaces is a privilege that is closely guarded.

    8. Seal*

      Normal or not, it’s incredibly stupid to not include the team at all in the hiring process. The team undoubtedly knows the most about the job itself and what they need from a manager. Not getting any feedback at all on candidates they’ll be working closely with is a recipe for disaster and very, very bad management on the part of the Big Boss. A good candidate would want to meet the people they’ll be supervising; that would be a huge red flag for me if I was interviewing for a job under those circumstances.

      I’d push back hard on this and if the interim boss doesn’t give you an update or explanation, starting looking for a new job ASAP. None of this bodes well for you or your team.

    9. always in email jail*

      In my experience, completely normal. I think our (government) hiring practices don’t even allow you to put a direct report on an interview panel. We occasionally bring them in for a quick meet and greet at the end of the interview, but they’re not looped into the process very heavily.

    10. Susan K*

      I have never been asked for input of any kind in selection of my manager (and I have seen over a dozen managers get hired), so I don’t think that’s unusual. As for the interview questions, it’s probably not good that none of them are about the skills that will be the most important for the role. It probably means the people conducting the interviews are not very good at it and may not hire the right person for the job. That, unfortunately, is also something I’ve seen. I applied for a management position in my department last year, and they asked a bunch of generic behavioral questions that really had little to do with the job. When it was my turn to ask questions, I asked what the top priorities would be for the position, and the hiring manager said things that closely aligned with my strengths, and yet he hadn’t asked a single question during the interview about what he said his top priorities were.

    14. Marcy*

      Totally normal, everywhere I’ve worked and everywhere I know of. Expecting to get involved would be really weird and out of touch in my experience.

      I’d be very careful about bringing it up. Actually, I wouldn’t bring it up at all, but since you seem set on doing so, just tread carefully.

    15. Little Twelvetoes*

      When my most recent supervisor was hired, my teammate and I got to meet the final two candidates – we gave them a mini-tour of the place and got to ask and answer questions informally. It was great! Both candidates would have been acceptable, but the higher ups took our opinion into account and hired our top choice. It has been a fantastic fit.

      We might have been allowed to more involved in the process, but one of us was actually in the running early on. That did not stop us from keeping it professional, though, because we are…professionals…

    16. Not a Real Giraffe*

      All these responses are so interesting to me! I’ve been involved in lots of hiring before — for peers, for junior team members, and for supervisors — and I’ve always seen the team involved in some way, even if it was just a quick meet ‘n’ greet. Whenever I’ve been interviewed, I’ve always met with the boss-to-be and the existing team members to make sure everyone affected in the hiring decision had been included and given an opportunity to weigh in (not to make a decision, of course, but to give feedback). Perhaps my history of experiences is actually rather unique!

    17. Sled dog mama*

      While I would not expect to be involved in choosing the new boss. If I was interviewing for the position I would expect to meet the team I’d be managing at the very least. This part strikes me as odd, when I’ve been in a position where a new person is being hired they always want to meet who they will be managing/working with. I personally think that the peer interview is hugely important for the candidate to decide how they would fit in the work place, this is were I got some of my most valuable information and often the information that made me say no.

    18. Sunshine on a cloudy day*

      Agree with the common sentiments expressed so far. It’s not terribly uncommon to not be involved in the interviewing of a boss role, but I do think it’s much better idea to have reportees involved in some way (even if just a quick meet and greet before the final offer) – not final say, but something that ability to express any legitimate concerns.

      However- I’m thinking of this from the candidate’s point of view… If you were considering taking on a role with an established team of reportees wouldn’t you want to meet the reportees before accepting the role? Admittedly, I’m not a manger. I’m just imagining that would be an important aspect of the job consideration for me – meeting the people I’d be directly managing before making a final decision.

    19. Anecdata*

      In my experience, it’s been 50/50 – but I definitely prefer when a team is involved! I think it eases the transition (I’ve seen teams derailed temporarily by being super nervous about a 100% unknown quantity coming in); gives the new manager more information about whether this is really the right /fit/ for them; and when I think back on new managers that didn’t last long (either left, didn’t pass the probationary period or were fired in less than a year)…. yep, most of them were hired without the potential team’s input.

    20. Coalea*

      In my experience, I’ve only ever had input in hiring people who worked for me, not people who I worked for. I think it would be good if the hiring committee solicited input from the team about what traits/skills they think are desirable in a manager, but I wouldn’t expect that they would share resumes or give the team a vote in the final decision.

    21. SCORM Hacker*

      I’m not sure it’s normal, but the same thing happened at OldJob. My teammate and Iweren’t included in even a cursory introduction before our manager started, but had to write our manager’s job description and onboarding plan because the hiring manager had no experience in our work or industry (our team did e-learning development, his team oversaw HRIS and benefits) . It left a pretty bad taste in our mouths to not be at least introduced to the candidates or get to ask a few questions. Even if it’s just for show, I think it goes pretty far in building good will for the team to feel like they are part of the hiring process. In our case, the manager they hired was awful, we felt totally no valued by our department, and we both quit within 6 months.

  7. shep*

    My manager, who is great, was recently promoted in our organization, and while I’m still reporting to her for the time being, it’s likely I’ll eventually be restructured into a new department with a new manager.

    But I really enjoy working with her, and I know her assistant position will likely be opening soon. I’m tempted to apply, but a few things give me pause:

    (1) It would be a lateral move for me, perhaps even a slight pay decrease if my organization weren’t willing to give me a true lateral transfer. (Unlikely, but something I need to consider.)

    (2) On the other hand, it would be a semi-significant RAISE for one of my coworkers, who I know is also very interested in the position. I also know she’d be great in the role, and it’s arguably more suited to her strengths than mine. (It’s much more people-oriented than my current role, and has elements of internal event planning, which I’ve done, but in limited capacity and for which have no great passion.)

    (3) And on yet ANOTHER hand (three hands, anyone??), as much as I enjoy certain aspects of my current position, I don’t feel like it’s the greatest fit for me either. I may very well be happier in the assistant position, despite my preconceptions of some of the job duties.

    (4) I’m also a little nervous to apply and then not get the position, just because I hate being the center of any sort of gossipy attention. Not getting the position wouldn’t really bother me, especially if my equally qualified coworker got it, but the idea of people discussing it as A Thing would definitely make me feel self-conscious and wondering if people take that rejection as a commentary on my current work. I’d keep my candidacy as secret as possible, but I’m sure knowledge that I applied would circulate somehow.

    Which is all to say that I know I shouldn’t limit my career opportunities just because someone else wants the same position, and/or because I’m afraid I might not get it, but all things considered, I’m not sure how to proceed. And if I do apply, should I let my coworker know I’m applying?

    Thoughts would be much appreciated!

    1. Snark*

      I think you should throw your hat in the ring, and I don’t think your coworker needs to know you’re doing it. Ultimately, you’re in it for you, and I don’t think you need to justify or explain either applying for it or why you didn’t get it, should that possibility transpire.

      1. shep*

        This is a great idea, and I would very much like to! The position is currently occupied, though, so I’d feel like I were talking about how I’m going to spend the inheritance money before I’d actually inherited anything. Which is a horrible analogy, but all my inadequately caffeinated brain could come up with this morning.

        However, it’s common–but not official–knowledge that the current assistant is likely to retire in a few months. I have no desire for her to leave because she’s wonderful, but I *do* want to have my bases covered when she does, and have a plan for whether or not I want to apply.

        1. NW Mossy*

          I was in a very similar situation about 4 years ago, where I wanted a role occupied by someone who was likely to retire in about a year’s time. Here’s how I handled it with my grandboss (the manager for the role I was interested in):

          “I know that Minerva has talked about possibly retiring, and I wanted to let you know that if she does, I’d like to be considered for the role. Do you have some suggestions for areas I can work on to be a strong candidate?”

          Minerva ended up announcing her retirement just a few weeks later on a much shorter timeframe that I expected – fully a year before the date the rumor mill was giving out. Because I spoke up when I did, I got fast-tracked and I don’t think they even interviewed anyone else. I got the job, and it was awesome. You can do this – go for it!

    3. WellRed*

      But it doesn’t sound like you even want the job. You list negatives, not positives and I wouldn’t recommend agreeing to a pay cut, regardless. Change is hard, but this might be the time to take a broader look around and ahead. Also, while it’s kind to consider your coworker, you need to focus on what you need.

      1. CatCat*

        I agree. It doesn’t sound like shep wants the particular position so much as to continue working for awesome manager.

        Shep, would you be happy with the position if awesome manager left?

        1. shep*

          A lot of what I do is predicated by my current manager, which is kind of why I’m freaking out about the thought of being restructured under someone else. It could be great; it could also be a nightmare. Also, the assistant position is much more structured, which is something my current role has much less of. I’d honestly like a little more structure. Might be totally worth doing some of the things I don’t really like.

        2. Elizabeth H.*

          I think it can be harder than you expect to go from less structure to more structure. I consider myself someone who does better with more structure but after being in a profession that was virtually 100% self-directed, I find the “structured” elements much harder to deal with. I’d hesitate to go from a position where you have more freedom of choice in how you plan your tasks/workday into someone more people and service oriented.

          I despise event planning though so I may be projecting my own interests into your job! I will say that event planning is a huge drag and you already know you’re not into it. It sounds like you might want to look at other jobs – it’s not a binary choice between assistant job or current job.

      2. shep*

        Yeah, I’m grappling with whether or not I want the position. I do know there are parts of it I wouldn’t really enjoy, but I also know there’s a lot of work involved I just don’t see. If it’s actually something like 80/20 in favor of things more suited to my tastes (and if my pay stayed the same), I think I’d be missing out by *not* applying, if that makes sense. As I say in my original post, while I like my current job, it’s not a perfect fit.

      3. Anony*

        That is what I was thinking. The impression I got was that you are considering it more because you dislike your current job not that you actually want this new job. You might want to consider a broader job search. Do not let your coworkers interest or fear of not getting the job prevent you from applying, but only apply if you actually want the job. If you just want to work with your old manager, you will likely end up unhappy. I think you should consider a broader job search. Try to figure out what you actually want in a job and apply outside your company. That way you can get a job you would enjoy doing while also avoiding the fear of coworker gossip.

    4. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

      (1) This would be a big factor for me, but even if they did offer it to you at a decrease, you still have room to negotiate.

      (2) Other applicants shouldn’t really factor into your decision to apply. If you were to be offered the position over your coworker even though as you say she has more strengths than you, it may be because they want the role to be changed and molded by your strengths. In other words, let the hiring manager decide who they want, don’t decide for them.

      (3) Be careful of preconceived ideas. As with any role there is always room for reinterpretation and reinvention of a position. In other words, you would have the opportunity to make the role yours.

      (4) And this is the tough one. What’s the saying “Fortune favors the bold”. Oh yeah, it’s scary putting your hat in the ring, and things may not work out for this position. But you know what, even if it doesn’t that doesn’t mean it’s a loss or waste. You will have the opportunity to put your best foot forward and sell your skills to higher ups in your organization. Maybe this job doesn’t happen, but now they know you are interested in growing. This is never a bad thing.

      I once was going after a promotion/job along with two other people that I shared an office with. No hiding the fact that we were all in the running. I did not have as much experience in the work as the other two, but I thought what the hell… let’s see what happens. Turns out that half way through the process the hiring manager had another person resign, so two open positions. He had to change directions because the 2nd person to resign had much different and harder to fill skill set. Guess who had that skill set :) He backfilled the original position with someone on his existing team, and offered me the other position. Truly a weird stroke of luck for me. All of this was going on while the 3 applicants were exchanging notes and keeping each other in the loop to all that was happening. I can honestly say that if there wasn’t the last minute change, I would have been disappointed but not embarrassed or genuinely happy for one of the other 2.

      So, in other words, go for it. My advice when it comes to careers (heh… it’s free right, so take it for what it’s worth!) Don’t limit yourself in your opportunities there are a lot of other people to do that. Your job is to expand your opportunities!

    5. Lady Anonymous*

      My dad always said that you can’t say no until they offer you the job. Go ahead and apply; doesn’t mean you have to take the job.

      1. shep*

        I think this is great advice, and I usually operate under this theory, but since this is an internal position, I’m concerned that I’d burn a bridge if I ended up getting an offer and then turned it down. Of course, I suppose I could mitigate that by opening a dialogue with my manager ahead of time.

    6. NW Mossy*

      I want to address point #4 from a different angle. I manage people, and I spend a lot of my time talking to other people managers. One of the things we talk about is who in our teams has expressed interest in other roles, who’s applying out, and what strengths and skills those employees have. It’s an important part of our work, because we’re always concerned with developing our people and having a strong pipeline for the future.

      I know this can be hard when you’re feeling self-conscious or unsure, but this kind of “gossipy attention” from managers is often what’s behind scenarios like Hello’s where a great role seems to just fall in your lap. Just expressing interest is enough to get your name in the discussion about future opportunities and can lead to you being approached about new roles before they’re formally announced. If your current boss is truly awesome and she thinks well of you, she’ll likely be a great advocate for you with her peers even if you don’t work together directly in the future.

    7. Anono-me*

      Why not just ask Awesome Manager to sit down with you to discuss possible internal career paths? She may suggest the possibly soon to be vacant assistant position or she may suggest some others. (It sounds to me like you work a a medium or larger sized organization and that you might have a lot more options than to stay where you are or to go after the assistant position if it opens up.)
      As far as your coworker who might want the assistant position, I think that there are several things to consider: One, she might want it, or she might really want your spot or she might want something else. Two, there is no guarantee that your coworker would get the job if you didn’t apply. If you decide you want the assistant position, I think that you should apply for it.
      If you decide to apply, I would suggest telling your coworker if you both are friend friends and if you get selected for a later round interview. You should also think about telling your friend if she asks you to be a reference. (And obviously you can’t be a reference for her if you apply.)

      Best of luck with whatever you decide.

    8. Anonymouse for this*

      It sounds like the main attraction of the job is continuing working for current manager? But what happens if she leaves – you’d be left doing assistant duties that you don’t particularly care for with a new boss.

  8. Bend & Snap*

    I posted awhile ago about getting ghosted after 11 interviews. I reached out the recruiter for feedback and she told me huh, someone was supposed to give me feedback, and they must have forgotten to tell me they filled the spots. Then I asked who to contact for feedback and she disappeared. The fun part is I have to work with these people on an event in a few months and I can’t imagine it won’t be awkward.

    I’m also in the running for an internal spot that I was pushed to interview for, and it looks like someone else is going to get that role instead. There were only two candidates. I don’t have the final word yet but it’s not looking good.

    How do people keep going when companies are so horrible to candidates? I am so freaking defeated right now.

    1. Reba*

      UGH. When you see them, try to let the awkwardness rest on them–they are the ones who behaved badly.

      Good luck with your search.

    2. KayEss*

      ELEVEN interviews? For the same position!? Forget awkward, I imagine working with people so unable to make and take responsibility for hiring decisions is going to be a nightmare. Sorry that happened to you–I’d suggest knocking ’em dead with your professionalism when it comes time to work with them.

      1. pat benetardis*

        I wonder, was that interviews with 11 different people on, like, 2 occasions, or 11 rounds of interviews?

        Even in 2 rounds, 11 people seems excessive.

        1. Wendy Darling*

          I barely have the fortitude to do one tech-sector interview day, which is typically 5-6 interviews with different people from, like, 9am to 2pm. I once flew to another city, did one of those, and had to hang out in a cafe until it was time to go to the airport for my 8pm flight, and I was so exhausted in the cafe that I almost started crying.

          I can’t imagine doing that TWICE for one company. It would have to be one hell of a job for me to not be like “actually, nope!”

    3. Shadow*

      Accept that most recruiters and hiring managers stay focused on the candidate they want and sort of lose interest in everyone else. Anyone who gives losing candidates a second thought is the exception and should be a pleasant surprise

    4. Biff*

      I’ll be honest, unless I needed that extra interview for unemployment, I would have walked after interview 5 — 11 is just ridiculous and wastes your time. It’s a strong clue that they don’t know what they are doing when hiring and a flag that they may not care. I’m so sorry it happened to you — it is very easy to feel like “oh, just one more” and then well, you get to freakin’ 11 and no contact.

      When I was out of work last year, I learned that the people who spent a lot of my time, interview-wise, were also wastes of my energy. I understand an interview might run a little over-long, that’s okay, but wanting me to come in 3-4 times to talk to different people, and blowing up my email and stuff like that — those people weren’t people I wanted to work for. I actually had to run away from one offer (it was enormous money) because they refused to believe I didn’t have a certain skillset. I mean, it was utterly ridiculous. Sorta like this: “So, you fly multi-engine aircraft. That’s great, that’s just what we need.” Me: “No ma’am, I’m a glider pilot.” Her: “Well, it’s the same thing.” Me: “No ma’am, there’s a about 1000 hours of training between me and what you need.” Her: “Well, you can definitely grow into it.” Me: “No ma’am, that’s illegal. FAA would have something to say about it.” For days.

      Trust me, if the interview is a hot mess, the company behind it is almost certain to be a complete dumpster fire.

    5. Bend & Snap*

      It’s actually a sister company to my current company which makes it sting more. The interviews were with stakeholders, peers, managers and went all the way up to the C-level. I got all the way through what they told me was the final round and then, nothing.

      So chapped about this and if/when I find out I didn’t get the internal job I’m going to cry and I NEVER cry. How do you keep your confidence out of the toilet?

      1. Little Twelvetoes*

        Go ahead and have a good cry. There’s nothing wrong with it. I do recommend doing it away from the office, of course.

        As to how to pick your confidence up – that’s a tough one. Remind yourself of all of your current awesomeness. Focus on those things you do best and take pleasure in them. Find some tools to help you boost one of your great skills, hone a weaker skill, or learn a new skill (just to prove to yourself that you can!). I had a tough time when I was rejected for a job a while back, but some of these things helped a little bit. I wish I had more ideas that could help.

        Hang in there!

      2. Lady By The Lake*

        Since they did 11 interviews, they were obviously very, very interested. Be warm and gracious and professional with them, as if none of this happened. Chances are that someone may pull you aside to explain, or (more likely) that they have no idea that the ball got dropped. If you got that far, chances are that another opportunity may come up. You will want to show by your warm and professional attitude that you are worth taking another look at.

      3. Wendy Darling*

        Honestly? I was job-searching for a year and the best strategy I found was to explicitly set aside time to mope. Any day I had an interview or got rejected from something I’d interviewed for I explicitly opted out of doing anything else job-searchy and just took the time to have feelings and do things that make me feel good (in my case it generally involves binge-watching Steven Universe and eating more pizza than is advisable). After that I had to shape up and resume adulting normally, but I gave myself one day to be a total slob.

      4. SebbyGrrl*

        A little cheerleading – in truth the only part of this that is truly all about you it whether or not YOU get a new position.

        So many other factors go into this as Alison and this site has shown us a lot of what goes on behind the curtain – and what doesn’t.

        Job hunting, especially when you really want or need the change can be some of life’s worst stuff – as you are experiencing.

        Give yourself time and room to mope, cry, be depressed and also lots of self care and self indulgence, a bit more pizza or sushi or wine or chocolate or what ever feels good.

        Self care is also reinforcing the good and the true. Even if you didn’t get chosen you are still an outstanding candidate because – reasons you know and can remind yourself of.

        Always always remember- when things feel bad our minds can really lie about how bad, or how we can’t change, can’t get what we want.

        What if you knew nothing would change, no matter what you did for a minimum of 2 years? What else might you do with yourself, your mind, your skills development, etc. if you knew no job change was possible?

        This internet friend says you are a sassy writer and a good fellow of this community and you sound like a smart, capable person any manager would want for their team.

        But all of that, all the positives may not produce change right now, so how do you live through the right now until what’s next arrives, with your self love and happiness intact?

    6. Jadelyn*

      Good lord. And here I thought my org was bad about over-interviewing – but I think our max has been 6 or 7, and that for an executive position. ELEVEN interviews? Why???

    7. Bad Candidate*

      Well, I don’t shop there any more. LOL Seriously I interviewed for a corporate position at a large nationwide drug store chain with initials. I had to drive out of state for it and they just disappeared on me. So yeah, I shop at their competitor now. Sure it’s not a big deal to them, but it makes me feel better.

    8. HR is Fun*

      I agree that 11 interviews means they were very, very interested in you. That’s a positive thing. But, I think you dodged a bullet by not getting chosen, because I think 11 interviews is a sign of something that’s not functioning well at their company. Too hard to make decisions, too many chefs in the kitchen. If you worked there, I bet every time you tried to get something done, it would take forever because either no one would make a decision or a million people would have to sign off on it.

      1. Fiddlesticks*

        This is so right. It’s a red flag I think.

        A colleague of mine went on a similar odyssey (not 11 interviews, I think only eight, which is still TERRIBLE), and only managed to last at the new gig 9 months before they came back, citing crippling dysfunction and inability to commit at the formerly new gig.

    9. lahallita*

      Speaking (typing) from recent experience, the only thing that will make you feel less deflated is time and getting a few more irons in the fire.

      I went through eight interviews and used 3 days of PTO only to have a conditional offer rescinded last year after the last person I spoke to couldn’t remember that my leave usage was so high because my Dad passed away and apparently they had concerns about timing. While staying vague they encouraged me to reapply in a year. I definitely cried.

      I keep reminding myself why it wasn’t a perfect fit and I wouldn’t want to work with people like that, but it still stings almost a year later when something horrible pops up at my current job that I shouldn’t have to clean up. Continuing to pursue training opportunities and applying for better roles have helped considerably though. I’ve been doing better of heeding Alison’s advice about not thinking about a new job until there is a firm offer in hand, but it’s tough not to visualize a new role after several rounds of interviews.

      Their loss! Next!

  9. Susan K*

    I work in an industrial facility, and the HVAC system for my work area is terrible. I’ve been there for 5 years, and in that time, at least once each winter the heat has been out and at least once each summer the air conditioning has been out. It almost always takes weeks to get it fixed.

    Some of the equipment my department uses is temperature-sensitive and can malfunction in extreme temperatures, so our managers always bring that up to try to make it a higher priority to get it fixed. I have heard them say, countless times, “I don’t care about the employees’ comfort; I care about the millions of dollars’ of temperature-sensitive equipment in there. If the HVAC doesn’t get fixed, the kilns won’t work, we won’t be able to glaze any teapots, and all of our orders will be late.” (The managers, incidentally, work in offices in a different building that rarely has HVAC problems.)

    While I appreciate the fact that they are trying to make a good case for getting the HVAC fixed, it always bothers me that they explicitly state that they don’t care about our comfort. I mean, yeah, I get that it’s a bigger deal to the company for production to grind to a halt than for us to be uncomfortable, but shouldn’t they ALSO be concerned about our comfort? Even if we weren’t working with temperature-sensitive equipment, shouldn’t they want to get our HVAC system fixed so that it can maintain a reasonably comfortable temperature? It doesn’t even have to be for the sake of being nice; I am willing to bet that people are going to be more productive and do better work when they’re not distracted by miserable working conditions.

    1. Reba*

      Yikes. Slightly different, but reminds me of when administrators try to praise teachers by exclaiming that they’re so passionate, they would do this job for free!!!!

      Is that supposed to make anyone feel valued?

    2. Trout 'Waver*

      If you can point to things that have a discrete dollar value, you make it real easy to justify the expense of upgrading the HVAC system.

      I hear the “I don’t care about employees’ comfort” as just added for emphasis. It’s a tacky way of saying it, but I wouldn’t read that much into it.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Yeah, that’s the way I take it. “This isn’t a comfort thing, it’s a production thing.” I agree that it’s a bad way of saying it.

      2. Stishovite*

        I agree with Trout. Unless you know your managers are that callous, I would assume this is just them trying to use the most efficient method of convincing the Powers That Be of the importance of the HVAC.

        Still, very hard to hear, especially if you’re in this cold snap.

        1. Susan K*

          They actually are pretty callous. I sort of wonder if they would intentionally keep the place at miserable temperatures just to punish us if it weren’t for the expensive, temperature-sensitive equipment.

      3. Wendy Darling*

        If it was being said by someone who was generally good people, I would even read it as “I know YOU don’t care about employees’ comfort so that’s not even the basis of my argument”.

    3. LCL*

      When TPTB realized that multimillion dollar hard to replace with a minimum 6 months lead time pieces of equipment had been damaged by high temperatures, the building HVAC was finally modernized to include air conditioning. The building is a big concrete box without windows. It was OK to expect us to respond in temps that were 90 degrees, apparently. I live in a part of the world that often won’t have air conditioning in industrial/commercial buildings because it isn’t needed, according to the designers.

    4. jm*

      Your feelings are so justified. I mean, even if management didn’t care at all about employees’ comfort, they don’t have to say that out loud. It’s just ugly.

    5. Pearl*

      That is annoying. I have dealt with similar problems – I don’t work in an industrial environment, but our building is old. This year we discovered several offices/bathrooms were without heat because their heat was hooked up to a defunct boiler in an under-construction zone of our building.

      For several weeks I and other people were pestering our facilities board member about authorizing the charge to have extra electrical installed for industrial-strength space heaters. I kept bringing up that people needed to work in here and that the bathrooms were uncomfortable and they kept saying they’d ‘get to it.’

      They only did that when I said, “Okay, it’s now going to be below freezing and in the negatives. The construction team says they believe the bathroom pipes are going to freeze this weekend. How should we handle that?” And then, ta-da, space heaters.

      But I didn’t throw the offices out when I said that. I just emphasized the pipes. It’s legit to be bothered that they’re explicitly stating that, because it doesn’t actually matter even if they’re only doing it to convince the people on the other end of the line to deal with the heat faster. All you have to do is lead with the equipment issues.

    6. Observer*

      I’m going to agree with the others who are saying that they don’t actually mean that they don’t care about your comfort, but are trying to make a point that bean counter types can run with.

    7. Someone else*

      If it makes you feel any better, I would take that comment as a response to someone on the other end of the phone saying “so people are uncomfortable for a little while, they can deal with that”, and what you heard being the reply. I agree with others that it’s not the most tactful way of phrasing it, but the point wasn’t not caring about the humans, the point was that this issue is a major issue completely independent of its affect on the humans. Maybe internally change “I don’t care about” to “That’s not why this is a critical issue”?

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Kilns that don’t work also do not conveniently remove themselves from the property. OTH, employees that do not work usually remove themselves from the property. They are stuck with the kilns.

      I agree that sounds awful. I also know that many places are like this. Heat and AC are for the customers or the clients of a biz and NOT for the employees of the biz. I try to think of it as they have to say it that way because it is how they get leverage to be heard. But reality is I left each of those jobs.

  10. Berry*

    What are some good job interview questions specifically to ask recruiter? I have a list of questions for the hiring managers, stuff specific to the role, but what about an internal recruiter who knows the job description but not the nuances?

    So far I’ve asked about office culture and work/life balance. Are there other general questions that can be useful in a first round, usually phone screen?

    1. always in email jail*

      promotion potential, do they tend to promote from within, how frequently are people given raises

      1. Kate*

        Speaking as a recruiter, all of those are tricky to ask, especially in a phone screen. All of those indicate “I’m not interested in this particular job.” Someone who’s asking about how likely they are to get a different situation than the one we’re discussing (a promotion, a raise) is not an appealing option.

        There’s a way to phrase that so it comes across as enthusiasm about the company. Like, “I’m really excited about the position. I’m looking for a company I can be with for a long time. Can you tell me about professional development opportunities and growth within the company?” But even then, a phone screen’s not necessarily the best time to have that conversation.

    2. Malibu Stacey*

      I like to ask why the role is open and what employee retention looks like in the role, dept & organization.

    3. it_guy*

      Who do they measure success? How would you know if you were doing a good job? What is the key metric for the boss’s success?

    5. Kate*

      I always appreciate a softball “What do you like most about the company?” question. Recruiters like easy questions, too. :)

  11. BadPlanning*

    I work in a casual dress workplace. My coworker was wearing a shirt/tie this morning. I almost blurted out, “Where are you interviewing” but I stopped myself. Later I found out that he was attending a funeral. Whew, averted saying something totally thoughtless.

    1. Snark*

      It’s so nice when you successfully bop the awkward part of your brain with a newspaper before it takes a dump on the rug.

      2. MLiz*

        I will keep that image in my heart and try to use it daily for myself. (Because my brain does this.) Thank you, Snark.

          1. Happy Lurker*

            Thank you for sharing your creativity! It makes my day…today included.
            I am picturing a cross between the talking pug from MIB and the monkey from friends, pooping on my rug. Nice!

    2. Jascha*

      Whew! I envy people who have a better brain-to-mouth filter than mine, though I’m working on it. Our office is casual/smart-casual dress, but sometimes I just feel like wearing a sport coat or a tie because it’s fun. People always comment. But you’ve made me think – maybe for people in offices like ours, it’s worth “dressing up” occasionally for no reason, just so that it doesn’t look odd if one day you do want to go out for an interview or something similar…

      1. Anlyn*

        I managed to twice stop myself from blurting out something damaging (I won’t talk about the times I failed to stop). Once when my family and I were on a trip in Canada–my dad was driving and got pulled over by a cop, who said in a lovely thick accent “Where-aboots ya headin?”. I *almost* blurted out “say that again!”. I was 20ish at the time. *headdesk*

        To make this work-related again; the second time was when our department had new upper management, and they asked my manager at the time when he got into the office, and he replied “usually 9:00”. I juuuuuuuuuust stopped myself from saying “no you don’t, you come in at 11:00”.

        I’ve gotten much better at tact.

    5. Not the only one*

      Yes. I once saw my boss wearing something unusually formal that was also black and felt the urge to ask whose funeral it was. Luckily I kept my mouth shut because I later found out she was going to a wake after work. Why does my brain betray me this way?!

  12. MissMaple*

    I’m not sure how seriously to take layoff rumors. I’ve only been here a year and it seems like everything is in turmoil all the time, so I don’t know if this is just part of the disorganization or if I should be taking steps to start a new job hunt. I was only at my previous job for 1.25 years, so I was hoping to be here longer but I don’t want to get caught flat-footed. On the other hand, I don’t want to burn any references/opportunities if this isn’t real. Any suggestions on judging how concerned I should be?

    1. Natalie*

      It never hurts to look around a bit. If you find a job that sounds interesting, you can decline to apply, you can decline an interview, you can decline an offer.

      That said, I know for myself it’s hard to stay in both modes – that is, “stay at this job long term” mode *and* “look for a new job” mode. At my last company, there was a big complicated upheaval that was going to result in layoffs and the closure of the company eventually, it was just a question of whether it would be in a quarter or a year. My financial situation and my ability to find a job quickly once I did get laid off allowed me to just stay put until the layoff actually happened, and two weeks later I had started my next job. So if your personal circumstances + risk tolerance allow for it, there’s nothing wrong with deciding to just keep on trucking until you know something more concrete.

    2. Don't Blame Me*

      Oh man, this is such a tough situation. I can’t help but think of that letter where the manager told her team they would be laid off soon, they all scrambled to make other (frankly worse) arrangements, and then the layoffs never happened. I suppose the safest thing to do would be to make sure your resume is in great shape and try to save a little bit so that if you do get laid off, you won’t be in a financial crisis. Since you say “everything is in turmoil all the time” maybe it wouldn’t hurt to start casually job searching anyway?

        1. Don't Blame Me*

          I can’t find it now either! I don’t recall getting an update. I remember the gist of Alison’s answer was that it was a really crappy situation, but there was no real recourse the LW could take.

    3. M*

      I’ve been at my current job 2 years, and for almost a year now they’ve been going thru waves of laying a bunch of people off, sometimes randomly sometimes not. Some people laid off a year ago are still unemployed and struggling.

      Look out for yourself first. It’s easier to get another job while you are currently employed. I’m not saying apply to anything and everything, but if you see something that’s a good fit, apply with a clean conscience. If they ask why you’re searching after such a short time, just say you heard about this great opportunity at their company – turn it back to how excited you are by the position.

    4. Dovahkiin*

      I don’t know if you’re in the states or not, but keeping tabs on your state dept of labor’s WARN notice list will keep you informed at least.

    5. Jules the Third*

      Find someone who has been there forever and ask them about how layoffs go at that company, and how seriously they take it. You can also check how the industry as a whole is going – mine is commoditizing, my employer is moving out of the industry, I’ve got a timeline for my exit.

      On the other hand, it’s probably a good thing to have your resume’ updated. With 1.25 yrs at the last job, and 1 yr here, you could leave now and be ok with future employers *if* the next job lasts at least 3 years. So maybe put in an application at some dream job / company – if you don’t get it, at least you’re in practice, and if you do get it, you’ve side stepped the layoff concerns at this company.

    6. Marie*

      Speaking as someone who didn’t see a redundancy coming, even though there were signs (hindsight is 20:20), it never hurts to look around and be prepared.

      Decide for yourself that if a lay-off happens, or your job changes, do you (if possible) want to stay with that company? I love the company I work for and decided to move to a role I knew I wouldn’t enjoy as much as my old job. 4 months later I moved to a role I really enjoy.

      However, if you know what the market is like you can decide better what to do than me, I was blindsighted and just didn’t want to leave the area, company and my friends. Potentially if I had known about great opportunities in other places, my decision would have been different.

    7. Former Retail Manager*

      I’d definitely polish up the old resume and start putting in applications. If you can stay at the next job for 2.5 to 3 years, your resume shouldn’t really take a hit. And if you’re younger, then probably even less of a hit. And while I’m sure many will disagree with me, I believe that most rumors have some truth to them. As another commenter mentioned, if there is someone who has been around a while, ideally 5-10 years and has weathered the storm before, I’d ask them about prior layoffs/the current state of affairs. But regardless, a constant state of disorganization doesn’t sound great, so I’d be looking either way.

    8. Dzhymm*

      Try to read the tea leaves from what else is happening in the company. Oftentimes layoffs are preceded by other attempts at cost-cutting:

      One company I worked for subsidized the vending machines; everything was 25c. Then they took the subsidy away and things went to regular price. Three months later they laid off 30% of the company.

      Another place I contracted at used to buy dinner for employees that stayed late. Then they stopped that. Two months later they axed all the contractors and a few employees as well.

      At yet another company one year the company Christmas party was dinner at a local restaurant; the following year it was pizza in the break room. Nine months later the whole company shut down.

      When you see the company doing the business equivalent of looking for spare change in the seat cushions, it’s usually A Sign…

  13. Jascha*

    Can anyone help me with wording for a salary negotiation?

    I’m the editor of a magazine and run it nearly (not quite) single-handedly. I’ve effectively been doing the job since April, have held the title since September “on trial,” and, as of next week, will be receiving a new contract to formalize both the title and a new salary.

    I wanted two things out of the new contract: 1) to put in writing a given number of work-from-home days per month, and 2) more money. I asked for #1 during a catch-up meeting last week and was basically told that they wouldn’t do that for anyone. As to #2, in the same meeting, they told me what my new salary would be; there was no negotiation, and I’m not happy with it.

    (Reasons I’m not happy: it’s not a large pay rise for the increase in duties; I’ve done a stellar job with fewer resources than anyone else in my position and received praise accordingly; the number they’ve named was the entry-level salary for my position four years ago and is below not only what I’m worth, but also the current industry standard and the salaries of others with my title – although admittedly I’m the newest to receive it.)

    I didn’t feel like I had the opportunity to negotiate during the catch-up meeting, and the person giving me the information is not the person who has authority over either me or the contract. I’d like to negotiate for more money when I receive the paper contract early next week, but I’m not sure exactly what to say: how to explain why I didn’t speak up in the previous meeting, how to phrase what I’m asking for, and exactly what reasoning to provide.

    For context, I know I’m the lowest-paid editor (and actually likely receive less than at least one person with a lower title); I also know that the company is doing well and can afford to pay me more; and the company leadership is aware of how well I’m doing. I also know that they would have extreme difficulty if I were to leave – but I also can’t afford to leave, nor do I have counteroffers.

    Any recommendations are massively appreciated – thank you so much!

    1. Sunny*

      I would e-mail the person who does have the authority to negotiate salary now and ask to set up a call to discuss salary rather than waiting for the paper offer.

      1. Jascha*

        Thank you! I’ll have a meeting with them early next week anyway, so I don’t think I’ll need a call, but d’you think I should give them a heads-up on Monday morning that I will want to discuss it when I get it? I don’t want to sort of… overkill it, if you know what I mean.

    2. Reba*

      Set a meeting with the relevant person to talk about the contract. Tell them the things you said in this post in your third paragraph, with extra underlining on your accomplishments! And some of the things in the fifth, but phrased more palatably :) E.g. I think it makes sense to bring my pay in line with the other editors,’ especially in light of how much I have contributed (example).

      You don’t need to explain why you haven’t already said this stuff to the first meeting person, since it sounds like they weren’t the one to do it with.

      Good luck!

      1. Jascha*

        We’ll have a meeting early next week anyway to give me the new paper contract to sign. Nothing about it will have changed except for my title and salary number, so it won’t be a complex thing. Thank you for the advice, though – I’ll see if I can sort of draft up a little bullet-point speech to memorize…

    3. Snark*

      I don’t think you really need to explain why you didn’t speak up before; the person you were speaking to was not authorized to negotiate.

      “In my meeting with Jane last week, I was given to understand that the salary on offer for this position was $X. I would be more comfortable if we settled on $Y; that’d be commensurate with the new, more technically complex (or whatever) duties and additional responsibility that comes with this new position. It would also be more on par with the current industry standard salary for similar positions, especially for someone with my strong track record of high performance and efficiency in my current role.”

      1. Jascha*

        Good point. It’s a little more complicated because the person speaking to me was/is currently the person authorized to negotiate, but as of next week, he won’t be anymore.

        Thank you for the phrasing, though – I think that’s really good. And for the “commensurate with” bit, I can follow the other comment’s advice and try to outline why I deserve it. I’ll need to think and memorize hard. I’m not particularly good at speaking up for myself!

          1. Snark*

            In cooking and in negotiating, knowing when to stop adding stuff is as important as anything else.

            1. Jascha*

              I’m a decent cook, so I guess I should think about what NOT to say for this negotiation, too, lest I be tempted!

        2. Snark*

          Yeah, following “commensurate with” is sort of mad libs – complete as appropriate. And please, feel strong in speaking up for yourself, you’re worth it!

        3. Sled dog mama*

          Actually the fact that that person will no longer be authorized to negotiate is a perfect reason not to have brought it up. If you had you run the risk of just having to start over with the new person if you didn’t come to agreement before the person in the role changed

          1. Jascha*

            It makes sense. It’ll look a little sidestep-y (our organisation is slightly weird in that way), but the simple truth is that I need to talk about this with the people in control of it, and no one else. I also suspect the person I didn’t talk to about it will want to know why – so I’ll have to come up with a cautious way of phrasing it.

  14. Not the princess*

    I’m a woman with a not super common but obviously female first name and a last name that’s a common male first name. Let’s say Jasmine James. Sometimes when people skim their emails they don’t realize that James is my last name and will address me as James. I get that this happens sometimes and it doesn’t bother me. But I was starting to see a pattern in the emails that were addressed to me as James vs the ones addressed to me as Jasmine, so I did a little unofficial study over the past couple months. Here are the consistent things I observed:

    1. People who addressed me as James would often call me “sir” at some point in the email, but people who addressed me as Jasmine never called me “ma’am”.

    2. Jasmine would get lots of exclamation points, smiley faces, and overly-friendly language. James got none of these.

    3. People are very direct and to-the-point with James, but more meandering with Jasmine. For example:

    Hi James,

    Your idea to include Chemical X in Project Mojojojo is great and I think it would interact well with the sugar, spice, and everything nice. Looking forward to discussing the implementation process of Chemical X in the meeting on Tuesday.

    Vs

    Hi Jasmine,

    Your idea to include Chemical X in Project Mojojojo is interesting and worth considering, but have you thought through how Chemical X would interact with the sugar, spice, and everything nice? The Professor is very particular about how prominent the inclusion of sugar is in his projects. Maybe including Chemical Y would work instead? We can discuss more in the meeting on Tuesday.

    I’m not trying to make any sort of point with this post, I just think it’s interesting how people interact with me differently when they assume I’m male vs female. Though I do think James gets more done since he is asked to explain things less often, so I don’t mind being him from time to time.

      1. Not the princess*

        I’m in a customer facing role and deal with maybe 50-75 customers per day. On a given day, maybe 10-15% of those customers are repeats. I’ve been observing my emails since early September but was off for holidays, so my rough guess is ~2,500-3,000 emails total, of which maybe 5% thought I was James.

    7. Don't Blame Me*

      Sounds like the story that circulated a while back where a male and female coworker decided to email clients as each other for a week or something, and the male coworker suddenly realized why it took his female coworker twice as long to complete a ticket (because when clients thought he was a woman, they suddenly questioned everything he said.) Very frustrating.

    8. RabbitRabbit*

      Some people (like me) have issues with using “ma’am” as it may sound overly-dowdy in tone. I wouldn’t, however, have used “sir” in a letter to a perceived male, so I get the annoyance.

      1. Miss Ma'am*

        Agreed about the dowdiness. I especially notice women who are not from the American South or don’t have much contact with members of the military sometimes get offended by being called “ma’am” – some people think it’s a rude jab at their age – whereas “sir” is generally more widely accepted as respectful. So, though I personally rather like being called “Ma’am” (it’s certainly better than “Miss”) I try not to use it with others unless I have a good sense they wouldn’t take offense.

        All of these findings are fascinating, though! Thanks for sharing them, Not The Princess.

    9. A. Ham*

      I have a similar situation! My first name is androgynous. My first contact with potential clients that i do not know is often via e-mail, but eventually I will talk to them over the phone as well. Not every time, but often enough to notice, people will completely change the way they communicate with me once they speak to me and realize I am not male. I often hear obvious surprise when i first talk to them over the phone and it just goes down hill from there. (all of a sudden it’s condescending tone and calling me “honey”. ugh it’s irritating.)
      Again, it is NOT everyone, but it does come from both men and women.

        1. A. Ham*

          YES! They’re embarrassed that they… what? treated me professional and normally in their original communication with me?
          How DARE I write e-mails that don’t reveal my gender. haha I’ll have to start finishing my e-mails with “P.S. I’m a chick”.

          1. Not the princess*

            Vaginally yours,
            Alex

            I actually have a male coworker with a technically unisex but traditionally female name who adds “Mr.” to his signature, as in “Mr. Ashley Wilkes”.

            2. Turkletina*

              I have a gender-neutral name. I’ve thought of putting a title in front of my name in my email signature, but (a) I kind of like the respect I get when people think I’m a man, and (b) signing off as “Dr. Turk L. Tina” wouldn’t actually solve the problem.

    14. Maya Elena*

      Are you implying men criticize Jasmine but not James? Or they just write in a more emotive way? Who is guiltier of this, male or female senders?

      1. Not the princess*

        Male senders tend to be more critical of Jasmine than female senders. Female senders are more likely to smiley face and exclamation point at Jasmine but some male senders will sometimes send smiley faces as well.

    15. Product person*

      Such an interesting and valuable observation, Not the princess! I’m bookmarking your comment for future use. Thank you for sharing.

    16. nep*

      Fascinating — you should make an article out of this.
      I’ve got a friend who is quite often taken to be a man in emails because of a name that’s not familiar to many. I’d bet she’s seen similar.
      Thanks for this interesting post.

  15. Ramona Flowers*

    It’s my birthday next week so I’d like to hear your stories of birthday celebrations at work: the good, the bad and the awkward.

    (But please let’s skip the discussion about whether adults should care about celebrating their birthdays or they’re just for kids and people with kids. I had a childhood full of miserable birthdays and I can’t have children so those conversations are 0% fun for me. Thank you!)

    I’ll start with my old colleague Tahani. On being surprised with cake and gifts for a milestone birthday, Tahani covered her face with her hands and told us to all go away. Not rudely. She just sounded mortified, and completely serious, as she sort of waved people away.

    So, away they went. Tahani uncovered her face. And most people went far enough away that they didn’t hear her say “I didn’t mean it!” Turned out she didn’t really want people to leave. Oops. Wasn’t even genuine mortification – just a poorly judged attempt at seeming humble. Her immediate colleagues were still nearby, but it kind of ruined the moment.

    (Tahani definitely did not have social anxiety. As I recall she actually enjoyed being the centre of attention, but evidently thought she should pretend otherwise.)

    So I guess don’t use the words “go away” unless you actually mean them.

    On the flip side, one of the most moving letters I’ve ever seen on AAM was from a former foster kid who had cried at work after her colleagues unknowingly gave her her first ever birthday cake.

    1. selina kyle*

      Happy birthday Ramona! Your comments are among my favorites on this site, you have some awesome insight on a lot of situations :)

      Birthday celebration for me – at my previous job, I was the only direct report to my boss. She put up streamers in my corner of our shared office, covered my desk in balloons, and brought in a box of fancy cookies from a local bakery. It was awesome (she knew she was leaving at the end of the year, so it was also kind of a last hurrah) and made me really happy as a recent college grad who wasn’t going to be able to be with family for my birthday.
      It was a total happy surprise and it meant a lot that she went the extra mile. She was an amazing boss – clear & high expectations with an understanding that sometimes life happens, and we just got on well.

      2. Bibliovore*

        I second Selina Kyle and thank you for sharing about birthdays. I too had miserable childhood birthdays and no kids. I personally don’t “do” my birthday but enjoy celebrating others. sometimes we just take a colleague to lunch or have a little breakfast with coffee and donuts.I would hate to have birthday celebrations at my present job but enjoyed my old position where we would just to a little lunch potluck on peoples birthdays, no presents or cake.

    2. Anonymoose*

      I have a weird complex about my birthday (not my age, just my birthday) where I don’t like people knowing it. The only people who know it are my spouse, my remaining living parent, my siblings, and my best friend since childhood. That’s more than enough people knowing it for me and I don’t tell other people my birthday.

      At my current job I came into work on my birthday and my desk was covered in streamers and big Happy Birthday balloons, and there was a small cake on my desk. One of my coworkers decided to get someone from HR to tell them my birthday so they could decorate my desk. I’m a very private person and I guess this coworker wanted me to be more open and thought this would be the way? I was surprised, but not in a good way. I tried to be a good sport about it and quickly ate a piece of cake with my team, but I was embarrassed and couldn’t wait till my coworker left for the day so I could throw all the decorations away. Yes, I know, I’m a grinch.

      1. Reba*

        I too am a grinch about my birthday. It’s not a secret but I am weirded out by people making any kind of a deal out of it. (I know that it is I who is weird.)

        My spouse once worked at a place where you automatically got a paid day off on your birthday. For adults! I find that so bizarre! But at least you wouldn’t have to be around coworkers who want to celebrate you. :)

          1. OtterB*

            I also once worked at a place that had a “birthday holiday” every year, but you could take it any time in the month of your birthday with your supervisor’s approval of the exact day.

        2. Middle School Teacher*

          Ugh, so jealous :) When I was in high school and university I used to skip school on my birthday and go shopping (it’s in September). Now that I’m a grown-up I can’t. (Well, I can take a personal day, but I feel like it’s not worth $225 off my paycheque to spend more money.)

        1. Jadelyn*

          Eh…I think there’s a distinction in what’s okay to share between birth*day* and birth *date*. I would never share someone’s full DOB (and thus their age) with anyone outside of HR. But I’ve put together birthday calendars for the branch before (which action was sanctioned by both boss and grandboss) so that the party planning team could make sure to have all the names included in the monthly birthday celebration and nobody got forgotten or accidentally left out. One’s birthday is not generally *private* info in the same way that one’s DOB is.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            At OldExjob, one of the things I had to do was pass birthday cards (and work anniversary cards) around for signing and send out birthday emails. It was boring and most people didn’t care, so I tried to liven it up a bit with pictures of amazing cakes in the emails. There was one very unassuming person who privately came to me and said he did NOT want a fuss; please don’t send out his birthday. So I did not. I would just catch him in passing and whisper “Happy birthday” into his ear and he would whisper back, “Thanks.”

    3. Professor Ma'am*

      I’m a professor and I share a classroom with other instructors. The woman who teaches before me is a friend and knew it was my birthday so she wrote on the board “Happy Birthday Professor ::Name::!”.

      I didn’t see it when I walked in, so I went about getting myself ready for class. Students started to come in and one says “Is it your birthday?” and then another came in and said “Happy Birthday!”. I spent about 30 seconds in complete terror that they had social media stalked me. That’s when I turned around and saw the board!

      A few of the students decided they wanted to guess how old I was. My students are almost all males and I got a good chuckle out of the bunch of them who responded with “don’t do it! it’s a trap!”. They insisted and so first guess was a joke – 23, we all laughed. Second guess was legit – 27. I said “I’ll take it!” and ended the guessing game (It was my 32nd birthday).

    4. MilkMoon (UK)*

      I don’t have any work-Birthday stories for you I’m afraid but I too had a childhood (and very young adulthood) of miserable Birthdays, so yeah I chose to reclaim my Birthday a few years ago and I am big on it (same with Christmas). F-anyone who has a problem with an adult loving their Birthday tbh, why shouldn’t I celebrate myself?

      Have a lovely Birthday Ramona!

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I’m sorry you can relate. May all your future birthdays be wonderful. And Christmases too.

    5. Malibu Stacey*

      Many years ago I was a receptionist and I was dating my coworker. A woman showed up on his birthday with a bouquet of flowers and said they were for him. I told her that she could deliver them to directly to his office but she refused, so I had to do it. We were not exclusive but I was still Not Happy.

    6. Seal*

      Warning – this one is bad. Years ago I had a side gig as an assistant coach for a high school fine arts group. It so happened that my birthday fell during the season. And it also so happened that the coach I was assisting, unbeknownst to me, had a huge crush on me; I was not the SLIGHTEST bit interested in them. So the coach let it slip to the kids that my birthday was coming up. The kids arranged to have a cake and singing telegram delivered to the rehearsal that fell on my birthday. Embarrassing, but the kids loved it. After the rehearsal and cake, the coach “surprised” me with an intimate dinner, flowers, and a proclamation of their affection for me. I was absolutely mortified, but tried to let the coach down gently. Unfortunately, the coach did not take it well and took it out on me publicly throughout the rest of the season. I did as much as I could to shield the kids from the coach’s awful behavior and salvage the season, but thing got so bad the both the kids and their parents complained to the school district; I finally did so as well. Ultimately the coach was fired for unprofessional conduct in general, which included sexually harassing me. The kicker is that that coach found another coaching job in another school district and continued to coach for years, apparently (hopefully!) with no further incidents. All of this happened over 25 years ago, when sexual harassment incidents – even big ones – tended to get swept under the rug rather than addressed or conveyed to future employers.

      Needless to say, that incident permanently put me off celebrating birthdays at work – mine or anyone else’s.

    7. JustaCPA*

      For birthdays at my office, you bring in a treat on (or near your birthday if a weekend or holiday) and leave it in the break room for all to enjoy. The end. We’re kind of boring.

    8. Stishovite*

      Ug. At VeryOldJob, I had a stress-related breakdown (? I don’t know the official definition of a nervous breakdown, but I couldn’t stop crying for literally hours, and hid on the other side of the building). Once I got myself under control enough to face people again, I claimed a family emergency and went home. This was the day before a long holiday weekend.
      On the day I returned after the weekend, I found out my co-workers had planned a birthday party for me on that day I left early.
      They hauled out the stale cake from the fridge, and held it then. Awkward!

    9. clow*

      happy birthday! at my office I came in to big a big balloon, and since birthdays for the week are posted for everyone to see, I got a lot of happy birthdays via IM or in person.
      The Tahini story is actually pretty funny, the former foster kid one, wow, that is really moving, makes me appreciate all the birthday cakes I have had.

    10. Yams*

      I love celebrating my birthday too! But in the office it depends on my co-workers, this year I scheduled PTO on the day of, and meetings all through that week because the celebrations in this office are weird and awkward. I also tend to skip out on other’s birthdays (though I always pitch in for the cakes). I mean, it’s the usual stand in front of everyone for the awkward happy birthday song (with the guys from purchasing bringing in the cake almost at 6PM and making us all stay 15 minutes after our exit time), so it’s totally not my cup of tea. They did decorate my office with balloons though, which I appreciate since I have an irrational love of balloons.

      Last year, different company, I was part of a team of five and we went way overboard for birthdays. We had a little breakfast buffet with cookies and snacks, then we had a special lunch we ordered in, and took off together for happy hour. We also decorated each other’s cubicle with stuff we knew they liked and added small gifts of appreciation, we actually stayed late the day before to set everything up. We did that for all of our birthdays! I still go to the birthday happy hours! I love that team. Well, we kinda had to put a stop to it before I left because someone in a different team complained to the director about our birthday celebrations… because we did not do the same for the other team–with which we did not have any interactions with.

        1. Yams*

          Happy birthday! I hope you have an amazing birthday!

          Yeap! We were pretty angry, we weren’t even allowed to buy cakes to bring at the office! We had to start bringing it the day before/after and call it a “friendship cake” instead of a birthday cake. I mean, we still had our happy hours and gave each other small presents very furtively, but we were very annoyed both at the other department and the director who gave the order. It really wasn’t our fault the people in the other teams basically hated each other and never celebrated.

          Honestly, the insane reaction the director and the other department had was about 10% of why I left that job.

          1. Ramona Flowers*

            “We don’t buy each other cake so you can’t either!”

            I dread to think how bad the other 90% must have been.

    11. zora*

      So I guess don’t use the words “go away” unless you actually mean them.

      Ha! good lesson.

      We have a very small satellite office, but it’s definitely part of the company culture to celebrate birthdays. They are highlighted on the internal newsletter and weekly calendars, and there is $ set aside in our office budgets. Most offices do the once a month party in the breakroom with catered food/decorations for everyone with a birthday that month.

      But because we have such a small office, I ask people what they would prefer for their birthdays, also to accommodate food issues. So, I make a ‘banner’ on the glass wall over the birthday-person’s desk and blow up a couple of balloons in the morning. And then we have ranged from having some cupcakes quickly and then going back to our desks, to getting some snacks and a bottle of wine and having a short happy hour after 5, to ordering in coffee/food from a fancy coffee place in the morning. Depending on what the birthday person likes. We keep it pretty low key, but everyone here works really hard, so it’s nice to have a few minutes to chat and eat something yummy before we go back to work.

      Oh yeah, and since I’m the admin who arranges all these things, I was planning to get something delivered on my birthday, but my coworkers surprised me with brownies in the morning, which was super sweet! They didn’t want me to have to organize my own birthday, which I don’t mind, but was very thoughtful of them!

        1. zora*

          I know!! I was basically assuming that would happen which wouldn’t have bothered me, but it was definitely added icing on the cake to have them think of me first.

    12. Buffy*

      At an old job, I came in one day to find a donut on my desk. Just on a napkin, sitting in front of my computer. I was kind of confused and asked around like “Anyone leave a donut by accident on my desk?” I finally got to my boss and asked her and she said, “It’s for your birthday!”

      “…Oh? It’s….not my birthday today actually.”
      “Yes, it is!”
      “No….it’s not.”
      “Yes, it is! I wrote it down!”

      It went on a few more times. I just mumbled thank you and left her office. So yeah, probably the most awkward birthday celebration I’ve ever had at work.

        1. Buffy*

          It was exactly one month later actually so I was understanding of the mistake. (It only got weird when she insisted several times that *I* was wrong about my birth date!)

          1. Lynca*

            Proper response: Well I was the one there so I should know.

            And I have actually stated that to someone that was adamant my birthday was a different date. It actually caused them to stop and think about what they were doing so it worked out.

          2. OtterB*

            I once had a colleague whose office birthday celebration was the wrong month/day because she was Canadian and had written down her birthdate years before in the day/month instead of month/day format, so we celebrated on something like July 2 (7/2) instead of February 7 (2/7).

            1. Buffy*

              Haha now that’s an understandable mistake! My boss (who you could probably guess, was pretty terrible overall) then ignored my birthday the next month? It didn’t really bother me but I thought it was odd since I was pretty clear in correcting her at the time. She probably thought I was still mistaken about my birthdate.

    13. Too Witches*

      I work at a small startup that has recently merged with an older (but originally even smaller) company that I used to freelance with, and the older company was big into doing a collection for every full-time staff member’s birthday. Old Company had a max of 7 staff and they used to ask for €5 and get a little gift card and some flowers; it wasn’t amazing, partly because they would also gift up (ugh, I’ve already refused), but fine.
      NOW, the company has almost doubled in staff, and for some completely indiscernable reason the collection has gone up to €10 per person per birthday! On top of everything, I work part-time, so suffice it to say I’m a massive grinch about this situation. Unfortunately I didn’t catch it before my birthday rolled around and ended up with 50 bucks worth of gift cards, flowers and a bunch of chocolates languishing in my desk, so now I feel obligated to pay something back, even though they’re only getting half because I only make half. We have four birthdays coming up in January, so that’s going to be rough on my budget. I’ve already notified the organizers that I would like a card and some flowers and nothing more for my birthday next year. Isn’t that more than enough??! They can even get cake to share if they’re feeling generous, but that is an insane amount of money to me.

      Anyway, happy birthday Ramona! As we say in German, let yourself be spoiled on today of all days!

    14. Ingray*

      How about when my former boss wanted to take me out to lunch for my birthday, but then said she couldn’t because she was too busy. (Fine with me, honestly. I’d rather not have to interact with my boss on my lunch break. But for some reason she decided that meant it would be awkward for me to be a part of her birthday celebration. Apparently the whole rest of management team going out for lunch but not inviting me is less awkward.
      My former boss didn’t have the best social skills.

      1. amy l*

        I was at Old Job for five years. When my birthday came around, Old Boss would send an email along the lines of. “Happy Birthday! I need to take you to lunch to celebrate!” . And she never did. Every. Year.

    15. Lemon Zinger*

      I don’t like to celebrate my birthday (never have). Last year my colleagues knew my birthday because we are Facebook friends and they were perplexed as to why I didn’t want to celebrate. I had unexpectedly lost a relative just a week before and couldn’t discuss it at work because I knew I would break down, so I was just very tense and kept repeating “I don’t like to celebrate my birthday” over and over again.

    16. Elizabeth H.*

      My nicest work birthday in 2013 was when I was working in an office with four other people including our director, we were pretty close and I liked everyone, and our director was about to transfer to a new position and we had a moderate restructuring and were going to move our office upstairs so it was a little bit of an “end of an era” thing. We got takeout sushi for lunch, all sat down around the center meeting table to eat, and had cupcakes (I think) also. It was so nice! Prior to an earlier restructuring, people would have cheap champagne at lunch in the office for birthdays which was fun. One of my coworkers had a birthday just after mine and she didn’t like a fuss or recognition or anything but I brought her flowers for it for the 2 years we worked together which she really appreciated.
      At my current job, people get a cake and all stand around awkwardly in the conference room eating cake and making conversation for 20 minutes which is not really my idea of a great time. Nobody did this for my birthday which was great. This past year, a new-er coworker who I mentored a bit when she started wrote me a lovely card and took me out to lunch (I protested but in the end I thought it was more gracious to let her pay; I told her I’d take her out to lunch next time we went) which was very sweet and enjoyable.

    17. Perse's Mom*

      I took my birthday off from work one year, back when I was working part time and therefore had no PTO. One of my full-time coworkers called me because she was worried about me (no PTO = taking a day off = income loss, so yes, I did show up if I was anything but deathly ill). Upon discovering I was fine, it was just my birthday, she proceeded to gather the rest of the department cubicle farm together around her cubicle to sing Happy Birthday to me over the phone.

      Granted this was only like 6 people and we all sat together every day and knew each other relatively well, but still… so embarrassing!

    19. Science!*

      In my old lab we celebrated everyones birthdays with cake. There were only 8-12 of us at any given time so it wasn’t too hard and we all liked it. But my boss would always have us sing Happy Birthday, and since he was an actual good singer (sang in a choir on his off days) he would attempt to harmonize. The rest of us…average at best. So the harmony with off key singing made for a weird combo.

      I still miss the birthday celebrations but my current lab has too many people to do it effectively.

    20. Anonymous Jane*

      I once semi-joked to an old boss that I probably would be calling out on my birthday, since people tended to die that day. (Seriously. My grandmother died of cancer on my 15th birthday, and my stepmother died of a heart attack on my 23rd birthday.)

      Boss was very weird about this, probably thinking it was an extremely odd attempt to get a vacation day. I ended up having to go to Legacy dot com and actually show her the obits to prove myself and make the weirdness go away.

      She later grew to appreciate my black sense of humor. The following year, she gave me a cupcake with a candle in it, and told me to have a happy “nobody died” day.

    21. Bad Candidate*

      At OldJob nothing on our team was every done for birthdays. I’d get an email from my boss, but that was it. At CurrentJob I was kind of excited because I quickly learned that they pass around a card for everyone to sign and you bring in treats for the office to share. It’s not a huge deal, but it’s something. So for six months I’ve been signing birthday cards, get well cards, etc. for everyone else. Last month was my birthday. And nothing. I got no card at all. They’d forgotten. (And yes, they knew, it’s on the list that everyone gets) I was already feeling like this job was not a good fit and alienated from the rest of the team, that just cemented it. Worse, a few days later the boss sent around a Christmas card to be sent to someone who doesn’t even work here any more and left well before I started.

      2. only acting normal*

        Yeah, that sucks.
        My old job did similar, on a pay-it-forward type arrangement: you bought a card for the person with the birthday after yours (helpfully on a list) and passed it round for signing. Except when I started there was already someone there with the same birthday as me, and I was added before them on the list. The person before me (us) on the list didn’t re-check it. So my birthday-mate got two cards (one from me, one from the person before me on the list), and I got none.

        It was also that job where while circulating a birthday card, I approached one relatively new guy and the woman sat opposite him got a horrified look on her face.
        She stage whispered “He doesn’t sign birthday cards!! He’s a Jehovah’s Witness!!”
        I just said “Oh sorry,” and took the card to the next person (because… really, no big deal to me! Noted for future reference – Wakeen doesn’t do birthdays). He was happy I didn’t make a production of it. But she thought it was some major incident. :D

    22. a*

      I don’t really celebrate my birthday in general, and I refuse to do it at work. I take the day off to make it clear. In general, though, your section brings in food for the whole building to share around your birthday. I told everyone from the start that I didn’t have a birthday and wouldn’t be celebrating. Ever. One year, we were having some personnel issues in my section, and our rather inept director counseled (the first step before discipline) one of my coworkers because she didn’t bring in anything for my birthday. Even though I don’t celebrate it. And I wasn’t even at work.

    23. Jadelyn*

      This past year, my team got me flowers and a cake, and gathered the branch (about 25 people in all) to surprise me in the breakroom. But, because one of my close coworkers knows I struggle with social anxiety, she realized it could be hard for me to be suddenly in the spotlight without being prepared for it, so she secretly told me about it ahead of time. I pretended to be surprised – pretty well, apparently, as no one questioned it! – but it was genuinely helpful to have the warning, and I thought it was very considerate of her to handle it the way she did.

    24. Elizabeth West*

      My coworker at Exjob found out my 50th birthday was coming up and I had to work that day. When I came in, she had plastered my cube with the Grim Reaper and sprinkled colorful “50” confetti everywhere.

      Um, thanks?

      I wasn’t too upset because she also made me an angel food cake, my favorite.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Death and confetti. And there I was thinking those things didn’t tend to appear together.

    25. urban teacher*

      My birthday is September 11 and I feel weird about celebrating on the actual date. I’ve managed to avoid telling most schools I work at because it’s so close to the start of school.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        That sounds really difficult. I have a close friend whose birthday is on 7/7 (London terrorism attack that killed the siege of someone we know) which is similarly tricky.

      2. Merci Dee*

        My mom’s birthday, as well as one of my nephew’s, is on September 11. Random people who weren’t even included in my conversation have totally chewed me out over the years when they catch snippets of talk and hear “celebration” and “September 11” in the same sentence. I stare at them through their rant, right up until they get to the inevitable question — “what in the world could you possibly have to celebrate on September 11?” I invariably answer with, “my mom’s birthday, mostly.” Tends to bring the conversation to a crashing halt. I’m not sure what kind of answer they’re looking for, but they seem to be unprepared for the one they get.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          On one September 11 the world stood still. To me, babies born on the 11th are little reminders that life will go on, different, but still on-going. FWIW, babies born on the 11th have a special meaning build right in to their lives at the start. Not all of us have that gift of an obvious purpose for our lives, some of us have to wait or some of us have to search for it.

        2. SAHM*

          I got chewed out on FB by my sister bc my son’s birthday is September 11 and I apparently posted something “insensitive” when I was just sharing about his (2nd?3rd? He’s 8 now so I can’t recall exactly which one it was) birthday. It was especially weird since her closest connection to it was “a friend of a friend’s relative was in 9/11”.

        3. Lissa*

          Damn, WTF is with people! I really think in general there’s no good reason to interrupt and berate a stranger based on what you *think* they are saying. Too good a chance you’ll be wrong. I’ve had similar things happen when I’m talking about a Dungeons and Dragons game I’m playing in or something, and also had a friend tell me about someone interrupting two women talking about “Indians” to yell at them about incorrect language…nope, they were talking about people from India.

          I hope your answer brings them up short enough they’ll think before deciding to try to have a Facebook-worthy “clap back” of a stranger again.

    26. Leah*

      at my current job, at my less-than-ten-people office, the coworker responsible for managing and spending the office’s junk food monthly budget brings cakes to people’s birthdays.

      …but, for some reason, she doesn’t bring cake for everyone’s birthdays, which, is at the very least, a little awkward. I think we had cake for only three of my coworkers last year, even though our HR representative pinned everyone’s birthdays on the whiteboard. yikes.

    27. Merci Dee*

      The company where I work now tried an experiment, several years ago, with providing birthday cakes for the employees. For the production area, which has almost a thousand employees, they would purchase a single massive sheet cake every month to celebrate everyone who had birthdays in that month. For the smaller support departments, they would buy a regular-sized cake for the birthday employee. Naturally, the cake would get shared among the members of the department. It was a really kind gesture, but birthday cake just about every month got old after a while. Not to mention, the company was spending tons of money on this, because we have three separate buildings on our campus, and they were buying the massive sheet cakes for each building — 36 of those a year, besides all the regular cakes for those in independent departments. I think they did this for about 2 years before management decided to end the practice. Even though cake is generally great, we weren’t sad when they stopped bring them around every few weeks.

    28. Wendy Darling*

      Happy birthday! May you get only the workplace birthday celebrations you want.

      Not a birthday party, but a baby shower: At a previous job I had a coworker who really, REALLY wanted us to be the kind of office that had big parties for life milestones. We were more of a “everyone sign this card” kind of office.

      So in an attempt to be the change she wanted to see in the world, my coworker planned a surprise baby shower for her manager when she happened to find out his wife was expecting. This was not something he was super open with around the office but people knew because he would have to skip out on meetings to go to appointments. She sent out invitations and got specially made cupcakes and balloons and decorated a conference room.

      Unfortunately since it was a surprise the guest of honor didn’t know about it and decided to take off the day of the surprise party because his pregnant wife was feeling poorly. Coworker. Was. Furious.

      2. Rock Prof*

        I missed my office shower because I went into labor (it was exactly 3 weeks before my due date). It wasn’t a secret shower though.

    29. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      Me and my husband run a small outreach for people in my community who are experiencing homelessness and poverty (we give out toiletries and personal care items) in our spare time. I never talk about it at work or anything, but one of my coworkers at my old job found out about it, and for my birthday, she and a few other coworkers went in together and made a monetary donation to the outreach. I was so surprised, and so appreciative of the gesture. I consider it to be one of the best birthday gifts that I have ever received!

    30. SL #2*

      Happy early birthday! Your comments are always ones that I stop to read when I don’t have time to go through the whole post. I hope you have a marvelous day and year.

      At my current job, we go out for a birthday lunch on/around the day; my other coworker and I have birthdays 2 weeks apart, so we’ve combined our celebration. There’s always a gift from our ED and then another gift that the team pools in for… and there’s usually a light-hearted birthday prank. I don’t want to describe them fully because they’re related to inside jokes and would make me very easily identifiable, but it’s in good fun, not destructive or physically/emotionally harmful, and we all have lots of fun laughing about it after.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I am so touched and humbled by people saying they appreciate my comments. It means a great deal to me, thank you!

    31. Middle School Teacher*

      We’re doing something new this year. We’ll get an email from the assistant principal saying “there will be pie (or cake, or whatever) in the staffroom to celebrate the Jan-Feb birthdays! Come by at lunch to wish people a happy birthday!” And there’s no obligation to go. I always go because I like free food, but if you’re someone who doesn’t like a fuss on their birthday, you don’t have to go at all. It’s nice, to have a little treat every couple of months.

      The AP is super thoughtful and tries to get kind of themed foods, so for the fall birthdays we had pie (apple and pumpkin), for winter we had Christmas desserts, etc.

    32. Bagpuss*

      Happy Birthday for next week, Ramona!

      We are normally quite low-key. We’re a small office and what we do is that the birthday person brings cake or treats if they want to,but if someone doesn’t want to participate, they don’t have to.

      We did push to boat out a bit for one employee – she was one of our more junior employees and was turning 21, so we all put a bit into a kitty and gave her a surprise party at lunch time, with cake, nibbles and (alcohol free) fizz.

      Our newest employee had a birthday just before Christmas. It happened to be the first birthday since he started, and some of his colleagues were teasing him, claiming that he was expected to provide way more than cake..it started with them telling him he had to bring cake, jelly and ice-cream, then that he should bring bacon sandwiches for breakfast, then that he should bring those for breakfast and cook us all a 3 course lunch (using our kitchen equipment, which consists of an elderly microwave, and a kettle)
      He retaliated by bringing in frazzles (bacon flavoured crisps) plus 3 different kinds of cake which he stated were to be eaten as starter, main and dessert.
      We pointed out he forgot the wine pairings to go with them…

    33. FoodieNinja*

      My birthday is close to Christmas, and after starting a new job I was informed by a manager (not my boss) that the office would celebrate my birthday the way her family celebrated her brother’s December birthday – by doing it on a completely random other day in the year. I wasn’t asked how I felt about this (spoiler: not a fan, at all). I tolerated it for a few years, because I was junior and don’t like to make waves, until one year I came in late, sat at my desk, and then was chastised by this manager for being late to my birthday party (which was being held during the weekly staff meeting). I went in, was presented with a cake in a flavor I don’t like, and glared at for not immediately eating some. I had come in late because I was having dental work done, and it hadn’t crossed my mind to schedule it around my December birthday, which was being celebrated in early September.

      At another job, I had a coworker/friend who was not into sweets. His birthday was coming up, and his boss asked me what he might like. I said cheese and crackers. She insisted you have to have cake on your birthday, and brought in a half-sheet cake (weighing 7 pounds) that was coincidentally in the colors of the team that was crushing his favorite hockey team in the playoffs that week. To add insult to injury, he had to take the extra cake home.

    34. NDR*

      At a former job, the week we started we filled out a form that asked things like favorite treat/candy, lunch, etc. We’d have a monthly birthday lunch featuring all birthdays for that month. Each celebrant got a little gift/goodie chosen from the first day form and the meal/cake was also coordinated around preferences. It was all super low key and never mandatory.

    35. Lurky McLurkerson*

      Happy, happy birthday Ramona!

      My old lab used to have a birthday club and those who wished to participate in 3 different departments would write their name, birthday, and what treat they’d like on a slip of paper and everyone would choose a name out of a bag during our Christmas party. So starting in January whoever’s name you chose you’d bring in whatever treat they requested enough to share with the birthday club participants! It’d didn’t even have to be sweet as we’ve had people bring in savory or lunch items before. But if you did bring in sweets, like I’ve requested donuts or particular type of pie, we also had a store of ice cream/frozen yogurts that people would replenish with each birthday we celebrated. There was also a stash of all kinds of birthday decorations so whoever was in charge of bringing in the treat would setup before we sang happy birthday.

      That was definitely one of the only good things about my old job ;)

        1. SebbyGrrl*

          Happy Almost Ramona!

          15th-ing appreciation for your voice and wit in the community.

          And thank you for this thread, fun and good ideas.

          Mine is in a couple weeks (52 and rocking it, thankyouverymuch!).

          For what ever reason, my particular thing in life is not great bdays, celebrating at work never really improved it.

          And I’m a ‘let me do my work, no one pays me to eat cake, there’s AP to run’ person.

          But I default to Jim Gaffigan’s motto, any excuse to eat cake should be viewed as an opportunity, because cake. I might not love that guy from facilities, but I’ll smile and eat cake in his honor.

          Congrats and enjoy!

          1. Ramona Flowers*

            I’m sorry you’re in the not great birthday club, fellow January person. Happy almost birthday and I hope it’s a good one this time!

    36. Don't Blame Me*

      I’m not sure I’ve ever been at a job where they celebrated birthdays, but my birthday is ALSO next week! Happy Birthday, Ramona Flowers! January babies FTW!

    37. copy run start*

      Well, someone once told me you should take your birthday off because it’s bound to be the crappiest day of the year if you spend it at work. True to form, the next birthday I had at work was filled with miserable customers and drudgery, so I take it off every year I can. Usually I try to turn it into a long weekend. My birthday is in the fall, so it’s usually a good time of year to visit attractions. (All the kids are in school, everyone’s saving vacation for the holidays and the weather is still semi-decent.)

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I’ve taken my birthday off. I normally do a tricky thing on that day of the week on a rota basis and if I go to work and don’t do it my brain, like, short-circuits. So I figured I might as well have a day off and sleep in.

    38. Lissa*

      Never worked a job that celebrates birthdays, but my birthday is usually either right before, on or after my last day of work before summer vacation so it’s like a little present to me! I just buy myself some extra cake in the cafeteria and giggle quietly to myself.

    39. Basically Useless*

      Everyone gets a birthday card and a coupon for a free drink at the in-house coffee place.

      I work night audit and get nothing. The rest of the front desk buy cakes, etc. I get nothing. Yeah, one year I brought in cupcakes to share with my fellow graveyard employees then gave the remainders to my overnight security. He was all “I already ate one” but agreed to take them when I suggested his gaming group would love them.

  16. extra anon today*

    I got a job offer this morning contingent on a (very thorough) background check with fingerprinting and interviews with people I know. They said the PD conducts the check and it takes 12 weeks! I’ve never committed a crime, or not paid my taxes, or done anything really bad/illegal (I’ve had one speeding ticket). I’ve never been fired from a job, though I did leave one without notice (but I was still in my probationary period, so I didn’t have an obligation to). However, I have been hospitalized for mental illness twice. I’m not sure what kind of things they are looking for? Will these hospitalizations potentially put me out of the running? Will my parents’ legal infractions be held against me? I also had a job that I was only in for a month that I left off of my resume, will they find this a red flag?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      I wouldn’t worry about it. The stuff they care about they already asked. If you were honest on your interviews, you likely have nothing to worry about. If you made a mistake or misspoke in your interview, you should clarify now rather wait for them to find out.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      That sounds intense! I think it might depend on what kind of work you’d be doing on whether or not those things will matter.

      The interviews with people you know part makes me think there might be some kind of security clearance involved?

    3. Natalie*

      Were you ordered to be hospitalized by a judge? If not, I’m not sure how they would find out. Checking yourself into a psychiatric facility is going to be private information just like any other medical care. (And even if you were ordered to be hospitalized it might still be sealed.)

      1. Not So NewReader*

        In general to anyone who is reading with interest/concern about someone, Even if a psych eval is ordered and completed, that would be a sealed part of the case. While military and perhaps police agencies might be aware of it for employment purposes that part should be sealed to everyone else. A check with the court involved would be appropriate if someone is concerned about this issue. Sealing laws are complex.

    4. Sandra*

      I work in a field where background checks such as what you describe are mandatory. The legal issues of family members would not be a concern at all. However, leaving any last job off a resume would be more than a red flag, it would result in automatic disqualification from the job and the candidate being put on a “never hire” list. The same would be true for the hospitalization if it was not disclosed and kept hidden. No exceptions. Sorry if that’s not what you wanted to hear!

      1. Natalie*

        Don’t people typically fill out a job history form for background checks, rather than using the resume? Every job I’ve ever had has assumed a resume is incomplete.

        Just curious, how do you find out that people have been hospitalized, and what they were hospitalized for?

        1. Sandra*

          I apologize. Sorry. English is not my mother language. We have section which every single job has to be listed. Like a resume but has to be complete. That was my fault.

          I can’t say about things like hospitalization.

          1. Natalie*

            Oh, that makes more sense then! And itt sounds like you might not be in the US so you would presumably have different privacy laws around medical info.

            1. Sandra*

              I am American. We don’t hack into medical records or stuff like that but the background check process is very in-depth

      2. Not Today Satan*

        Off a resume, really? or do you mean on one of those forms where you sign that everything is complete and true?

    5. Jules the Third*

      They may also look at your financial records – a bankruptcy or low credit score can impact some job offers, especially ones with security clearance requirements.

      *Usually* medical history isn’t part of the concern. A friend of mine went through something like this with the State Dept, I got asked about their attitude towards America (vs other countries), illegal drug activity. Nothing about her family / parents. I *think* your parents’ legal infractions would not be a concern, nor would the job you left off your resume’. If that comes up, just say you didn’t have a chance to develop relevant experience or accomplishments.

    6. Shadow*

      Hard to tell. If it’s government/govt contractor or law enforcement I would be worried most about the job you left off. Ghosting doesn’t reflect well on your professionalism and leaving off a job might lead them to believe you can’t be trusted.

    7. Nichelle*

      I wish you luck OP. Unfortunately if it was my company / industry not disclosing your entire work history (even a job that was only one month) would lead to disqualification. Same for the hospitalization if it was not disclosed and kept hidden. If these were discovered after hiring it would result in firing with a security escorting you out on the spot.

        1. Shadow*

          Pretty easy when the background check involves interviews with acquaintances. Might lead an investigator to question mental fitness.

          1. Natalie*

            Those types of background checks are pretty rare, and you’re assuming that the acquaintances know about a hospitalization and would mention it. Doesn’t sound that easy or common to me.

              1. Natalie*

                Fair enough, although I still think it’s a leap to assume that people are going to randomly mention your hospitalization for a work-related background check. I wouldn’t – someone’s medical history isn’t relevant to their job. And if medical and mental health history was an explicit part of the check the OP would have presumably been asked about it.

        2. Kuododi*

          Thanks to privacy laws, the only way one of would find out if there had been a hospitalization or other medical care is if it were outright disclosed and a formal release of information signed to provide the potential employer access to medical records. Frankly IMHO unless there is an issue of needing to discuss accommodation, my medical history is not anyone’s business except my healthcare providers, DH and myself unless I choose to act differently. I am only speaking for privacy laws in the US. Hope this helps!

            1. Kuododi*

              Woops again… actually had it right the first time…need more coffee!!!! And maybe chocolate!!!!

    8. also anon for this*

      I am being honest because you asked: your speeding ticket or anything legal re: parents wouldn’t matter at all. The hospitalizing would depend on the circumstances of it (was it voluntary or not) and if you were up front about it and the reasoning. If it was voluntary and you were, than it would not be an issue. If it was involuntary it would depend on the circumstances. If you did not mention it and we found out on our own it would be an issue. The leaving the job off your history would mean we wouldn’t move ahead with your candidacy. I hope this is not the case for the job you applied for and my fingers are crossed for you.

    9. Natalie*

      Since a couple of people have mentioned leaving the short job off your job history, just to clarify: a resume and a job history are different things. When you say you left the 1 month job off your resume, do you mean the nice 1-2 page marketing document that highlights specific aspects of your career? If so, it would be a very unusual industry that expected that document to include every job you’ve every had.

      If you left the 1 month job off of the background history information form, that is a problem as those forms are supposed to be exhaustive. In that case, I would contact them as soon as possible and say you left it off by mistake, as that is better than them finding a job that you didn’t disclose.

      1. extra anon today*

        Yes, there is a separate place in the BG check paperwork for listing employers. They want all my history for ten years, so I have temp and part time gigs as well that are not on my resume that I will now include on this paperwork, so I’m not really worried about this part anymore. Thank you.

    10. Anonfornow*

      I have experience in the background check industry, and I can assure you that almost NO screenings will find your hospitalization issues. Also, the FCRA strictly forbids using things like mental health (a protected disability) as a reason for not hiring someone. Many many people leave jobs off of resumes, and if the job was substantial, most companies will call you to reconcile that missing information. There are exceptions and workaround to a lot of these rules, but they require a lot of knowledge of how your potential employer runs their checks. In my experience, the VAST majority of employers, including very high profile, high paying positions, would not care to see that information even if it was found. You’re likely just fine.

      2. Shadow*

        Depends on how in depth the interviews are. If they’re like personal reference checks a two most jobs you’re right, but if it’s interviews conducted by an investigator for security clearnance type jobs those are far more in depth. Generally those types of investigators are looking for character, credibility, ethics, and honesty and issues in those areas can be a huge deal.

    11. Susan K*

      You probably don’t have anything to worry about. A standard background check will involve checking for arrests, possibly a credit check, and possibly verifying previous employment. What else they are looking for depends on what type of job this is. The fact that they are interviewing people you know might mean that they will be looking deeper than a standard background check.

      – The speeding ticket will not be an issue (if it were, they would have a hard time hiring anyone).

      – Leaving the job without notice will probably not be an issue. Another commenter used the term “ghosting” but my read of your question is not that you “ghosted” but that you quit on the spot instead of giving advance notice, and that your employer didn’t have a problem with that because you were in a probationary period.

      – The hospitalizations may or may not be an issue, depending on the circumstances and the job. If these were voluntary hospitalizations, it is unlikely that they will even find out. Background checks do not normally include medical records, and if they did, you would have to provide explicit permission for your records to be released. If you were involuntarily hospitalized by law enforcement, they may find a record of that. However, if they are going to care about something like that, they probably would have asked you about it on the application.

      – Your parents’ legal infractions will not be held against you.

      – Leaving a short-term job off your resume will almost certainly be fine. You are not required or expected to include every job you’ve ever had on your resume. However, if they asked you to list every job you’ve ever had (or every job in the last X years) on the application and you left it off, that could be a problem. When they look at your employment history, they are usually more concerned about making sure you actually had every job you said you had.

      – Pretty much the only thing that is an automatic failure on a background check is being caught in a lie. If the background check turns up anything that directly contradicts a statement you made on the application or in the interview, you’re done. If they didn’t ask about it, though, they will probably either not care or give you a chance to explain.

      2. Former Retail Manager*

        My comment disappeared into thin air, but says mostly the same as Susan K. The only thing I’d add is regarding the parent’s infractions. If a family member has a felony for a white collar crime, such as embezzlement, and you are being hired for a position requiring access to funds/accounting info/fiduciary duties, etc. it would be relevant. As long as you have disclosed it or disclose it when they ask you, then I think you should be okay. Also, if you haven’t already disclosed it, they may never know. To my knowledge, the family member would have to provide explicit permission for their own background to be checked by the hiring agency. Perhaps if this is a super high level federal job, it may be different. Also, part of this process is typically an interview with you, after they have gathered all of the info they deem necessary, where you will be offered an opportunity to address/provide more info about anything they find “concerning” or just want more info about.

        My source: Current federal employee. I went through a similar background check, but mine was performed by an independent third party contractor, not a police department. Good luck! Try not to stress.

    12. Former Retail Manager*

      I am a federal employee and our background checks are similar. I can assure you that they likely won’t find out about the job you left off your resume. As for your parent’s legal infractions…..is either a felon? If so, do those felonies relate to what you may be doing. For example, a job in accounting or with access to funds, and mom served time for embezzlement?

      As for the mental illness, that really depends on the nature of the job to which you are applying. If the job is considered law enforcement, then yes, it matters. If you’re going to be a clerical employee or something like that, then probably not. Also, while health records are typically confidential, the nature of the background check they’re performing tells me that they may be able to get that information. I don’t know that for sure though.

      Part of the investigation is also typically an interview with you, in which they will give you an opportunity to explain/address anything they uncovered for which they need additional facts or deem to be “concerning.” Above all, be completely honest. If you were hospitalized for depression that is now well controlled with medication and therapy, tell them that, point blank.

      Good luck!!!

    13. Not So NewReader*

      If I had to guess, based on what you say here you are probably fine.
      I have no idea why these checks take so long, unless the company hired it out and there is a waiting list that the vendor must drill down through.
      A criminal background check comes from the national database. Your parents infractions will not be on your record NOR should those infractions be on THEIR record. The database is concerned about misdemeanors and felonies. Infractions are very tame by comparison and no one cares. Your speeding ticket should not come up on the record either. From the sounds of it your record will show “No information found”. Which is a good thing.

      I hope this story helps a little. My husband volunteered to talk to someone regarding a friend of his for the purpose of a background check. It took the checker forever to call, we almost forgot that hubby had known about it. Finally the checker called. The questions were not hard, nor probing. The “toughest” question the checker asked was, “Do you trust this person?” Wisely, my husband answered, “He has a key to our house.” With that the checker said, “I’m good here. Thank you. Have a good night.”

    14. Intel Analyst Shell*

      Fingerprints will ONLY return arrests. They will not return traffic citations, being civilly committed, something your parents did, etc. I work in law enforcement and manage the retained fingerprint application system for our employees (we retain these prints until employment is terminated but yours will most likely not be). Your hospitalization for mental illness could show up if it was an involuntary commitment (i.e. the police responded) but if not I don’t think they’d be able to find. I would suggest cleaning up or making any social media you have private, it’s probably the first place I start my background checks after fingerprints.

    15. Student*

      Just don’t lie. You’ll likely be asked to fill out a separate questionnaire for the background check that covers things like job history. On that, include your full job history, following the form instructions (would be typical for it to instruct you to leave off jobs from more than X years ago, or less than Y duration).

      Your resume us a marketing document, not an autobiography, so the difference won’t raise red flags. If they ask about it, just answer – you had a job, but since it was brief/unrelated to this job you applied for, you left it off your resume to make room for more relevant info.

      The mental illness thing is likely something they’ll ask about. Just answer honestly. They may want contact info for the main treating doctor if it’s recent, and you might be asked to sign a document allowing your medical info to be handed to the investigators. That stuff won’t go to your co-workers or boss, it’ll go to the background investigators who are usually bound by a set of rules (should be provided to you in that document you’re asked to sign).

      It’s almost always not a deal-breaker to have a mental illness in a background check. It’d be an issue if you lied about it. It’d be an issue if your former doctor thought you posed a serious ongoing public risk – which is not an issue with most mental illnesses, nor an issue with mental illnesses that are well-controlled with medication and/or therapy. If you’re schizophrenic, that’s fine – if you’re schizophrenic and refuse to treat it, though, that’s likely to get you rejected.

    16. Kuododi*

      I have had background checks run on me repeatedly. I am in the US and it is SOP if one is applying to work in any capacity with children. (volunteer or paid staff). What I was told was that the check would look into my criminal background to see if there was anything which would lead to my being considered a safety risk dealing with kids. (Worst offense I have is the occasional speeding ticket!) When I worked on contract with the military and was going to be helping with some summer camps for military kids I was fingerprinted and investigated. Noone ever looked into questions involving medical/mental health history and frankly I have never heard of family members being investigated in the course of a background check. (Routine disclaimer….my experience is the mental health field in SE USA. I don’t pretend to have all the answers to all industry practice and I certainly don’t presume to speak for policies outside of USA.). Hope this helps. Best wishes!

    17. Jerry Vandesic*

      Some great advice above about the thoroughness of the background checks.

      But my advice is a bit different: keep looking for a new job while the background check is happening. Twelve weeks is a long time. You might find something better, or (in the worst case), if you fail the background check you aren’t back starting from square one. On the other hand, if the background check goes well and you haven’t found a better job, then you are all set; no foul.

      Also, if you have a current job, do not give notice until the background check is complete and your offer becomes unconditional. If that means your new employer would have to wait a bit longer for you to start, then they have to wait a bit longer.

  17. Kendall*

    This is probably not a big deal, but I wanted to get a second opinion on whether it’s worth bringing up.
    We recently got a new general manager, who is my boss. While he’s made it clear that he values me, thinks I’m a great employee, etc. he does something that really bothers me. He tells me how to perform really obvious tasks on the computer as if I don’t already know them. For example:

    “Hey, can you copy and paste that link into an email and send it to me? To paste it, you can use CTRL + V.”
    “If you double click between those columns in excel, it’ll expand any columns that aren’t wide enough.”
    “Can you sort this list alphabetically for me? To do that, you can click the filter in the column and choose the A to Z option.”

    It drives me nuts! Most of the things he tells me I’ve known since I was in middle school or high school. Additionally, I took many business computer classes in college in which I learned how to do things much more challenging than the things he tells me how to do. Is there a way to tell him that he doesn’t need to instruct me how to perform simple tasks on the computer without sounding snobby, or should I just let it go? For context, I’m a 24 y.o. woman, and he’s a man in his early 50s.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      I think I’d try to reply right in the moment in a puzzled or joking way. Next time he does it, laugh as if startled and say, “you know that I know how to use internet shortcuts, right?” in a light way. Try not to sound hostile or annoyed.

    3. yup*

      There are so many people that do not know the basics of Excel or keyboard shortcuts that he probably thinks he is being helpful. I would just say, “Hey, I’ve actually taken a lot of Excel and computer classes and can perform quite a few tasks with it. I’ll let you know if I need help, but you can assume I know how to do everything I need in this role, unless I tell you otherwise. Thanks again for the assistance, but I am good!”

    4. Anita-ita*

      mansplaining! Or maybe he’s new to learning them and wants to let everyone else know how to do it (maybe he thinks its a new thing?)

      If someone does this to me, I always tell them I know how to do that. Or you could always say something like, “oh yea that shortcut is great! been using it for years”

      “Excel does so much cool stuff, glad I learned that short cut in middle school”

      “Yes, I know how to sort alphabetically using that shortcut.”

    6. Myrin*

      Is this happening in writing or verbally?
      Verbally, I’d say you can just say in the moment and with a friendly tone that you already know that – do that often enough and he’ll probably get it on his own.
      In writing, you can probably do that once but I think it would sound somewhat awkward to basically end every email with some sort of “btw I already knew that” – in that case, it might be better to say something about the overall situation like “You probably don’t realise it but you keep telling me how to do tasks that I’ve actually known about for a really long time. It’s very kind of you but please don’t feel like you have to tell me such things – even if I don’t know, I know where to look it up” or something similar.

      1. Kendall*

        It’s happening verbally. I’m always hesitant to push back at work, or say anything that might mildly offend someone, so it’s hard for me to say something. Obviously, a friendly tone like you mentioned though would soften the message.

    7. Murphy*

      OMG, that would annoy the crap out of me. I’d probably just say something like, “Yup! I’m familiar with Excel, I got it!”

    8. Ama*

      It sounds to me like either he’s previously had reports that need extra help or he’s still trying to figure out the line between providing helpful info and micromanaging when delegating (this is something I’ve struggled with as a new manager). You could maybe say something like “You really don’t need to type up all those extra instructions when you ask me to do things — I’m pretty good with computers and if there’s anything I can’t figure out on my own I’ll definitely let you know.” Make it seem more like you’re trying to save HIM extra work rather than letting on that it’s driving you crazy.

      1. Kendall*

        He actually transferred from a nearby branch of our company, and I happen to know that the individual at THAT branch who is in my role, was previously a warehouse worker who worked his way up (not to say that warehouse workers can’t have excel/computer knowledge, but it’s somewhat likely that that’s the case), so I think you may be onto something!

        The manager’s comments are usually verbal, though, so it’d probably have to be something I say in the moment next time he makes a comment!

        1. Tabby Baltimore*

          I think you’ve found your answer here (the former warehouse worker) but you might also ask him whether he has young-ish children at home. I know I developed a habit of over-explaining instructions, b/c as the kids got older, they’d say “Mom, I *know* how to do this!” And I’d apologize, and say something like “I’m sorry, I didn’t know you knew.” So, yeah, I’m with everyone else who’s suggesting you let your boss know in the kindest way possible that he doesn’t have to use time to provide a how-to along with the directive. My kids let me know pretty directly: “Mom, you don’t have to explain everything; just tell me what you want, and I’ll do it!”

    9. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

      I’d ask him why he’s giving you the 101 instructions.

      There a lot of reasons he could be doing this. From past incompetent employees to a need to be micromanaging and overbearing. Chance are he either is doing it out of habit (for some reason) or he doesn’t realize he’s doing it.

      Either way, his answer will clue you in to what you are working with.

      1. Anony*

        Yeah, I would just ask why he is explaining basic computer instructions. Either it took him a while to learn these things or he worked with someone previously who needed these instructions. Once he is clued in to the fact that you know this stuff he should stop or at least back off some. It might be a hard habit to break depending on how long he has done it.

    10. JennyAnn*

      I offer a random tip back, like it’s an exchange of trivia.
      “To paste it, you can use CTRL + V.”
      “Yes, and CTRL+Z is an Undo shortcut. Aren’t they lifesavers?”
      The important thing is to say it in a genuinely good-natured tone – don’t let it sound sarcastic or snappy (even if it’s irritating, which I know can be difficult). My last couple of jobs I’ve been in the significantly younger age range of a lot of my coworkers/supervisors, and I have a fairly cutesy personality (I’ll admit to it), so I get a lot of comments like this.

      2. Kendall*

        I like that idea! Thanks! I, too, am significantly younger than all of my coworkers, so I struggle to pushback/say anything that could mildly offend someone.

    11. Kendall*

      I should mention, I do feel like this is partially my fault. When he first started here, he asked me how comfortable I was with excel (although he makes obvious comments on things outside excel, too) on a 1-5 scale. I was about to say “at least a 4”, but he jumped in before I could say anything and said “5 being you’re a programmer.” I immediately thought, well, no, I’m not a programmer, so instead I said “well, I don’t know how to program, but I feel like I’m pretty competent in Excel” which was possibly an undersell that’s causing all of his comments now.

      1. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

        I hate those questions, but I ask them myself in interviews. The spread of knowledge for Excel is huge.

        I use a 1-10 scale; 1- I’ve never heard of Excel and 10- I designed the program for Microsoft.

        Once someone gives me a number I’ll throw out a few questions and ask them what their favorite tool in the program is. If someone says vlookup or pivot tables I know they are pretty comfortable, visual basic and macros and they are fairly advanced, if they look at me with a deer in headlights look I’ll know I have a newbie on my hands.

        Based on your comment, here I’d just work it into a conversation with him that based on his tips it sounds like you undersold your competency and let him know that you are comfortable with Excel and are well versed in the functionality he’s describing, but if there’s something you don’t know you’ll either google or ask.

        1. Anony*

          Especially since you don’t know what you don’t know! I used to think I was great with excel and then I discovered macros and realized just how much excel can do. I have started responding with “It depends. What do you need me to do in excel?”

          1. KK*

            Totally agree! I knew I wouldn’t be expected to do anything super challenging in Excel, so I should have just made it clear that he could be confident in my abilities despite saying, “5 being a programmer.” Haha.

    12. Lucky*

      Really depends on your relationship with your boss. Mine is pretty friendly/joke-y, and we’re much closer in age. Yesterday he asked me what physical address we use for operations in a foreign country and I told him something like “I think we use our law firm’s address in X city, but Wakeen could tell you for sure.” Then he asked “can you send me that address?” and I replied “do you mean, can I Google Law Firm + City?” He said “oh, yeah” and walked away sheepishly.

    13. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      I have explained how to do every single example you listed to one coworker or another during the year I’ve worked here because they legit didn’t know. And these are all people who have been working jobs using computers for 20+ years. It’s entirely possible that he’s used to working with people that seriously don’t know these basic things. I’d be comfortable telling him that I know the basic stuff and that you’ll ask if you don’t know how to use the program to do something that he’s asking.

    14. Middle School Teacher*

      I think part of it is as other people said, he’s used to working with people who don’t know what they’re doing. I wonder if another part of it is to show you that he does know what he’s doing? Like, he doesn’t want you to think that he’s excel-inept because he’s older?

      1. Kendall*

        “Like, he doesn’t want you to think that he’s excel-inept because he’s older?”

        I do suspect this could be part of it. Our old GM (who the new GM knows) was around his age and COMPLETELY inept in excel, and really anything computer related (ex: he had no idea you could select only a certain page or range of pages to print in a 1,000 page document, and ended up printing the whole thing.)

    15. Not So NewReader*

      This is one of those things that if you see it once or twice, speak right up.

      If your relationship is basically friendly, then I would say something like “I am into the environmental stuff, you know, saving energy and whatnot. I am good with copy/paste and numerous other computer tricks, so it really is okay if you do not explain them. This would free up time/energy for other stuff, too. I promise I will ask if there is something I am not clear on.”

    16. Jessica Fletcher*

      I had kind of a similar dynamic with my older boss for a while when I first started my job (not with technological stuff, but just in general). I did what a lot of people here suggested and worked on replying with things like, “Yup, I got this!” and “Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, too,” in a friendly and upbeat tone of voice. I think that, along with us getting to know each other a little better and him realizing that I am competent and will ask if I have questions, made a difference.

      It did drive me crazy at first! So the other thing I worked on was trying to reframe it in my mind. Like your boss, my boss was clear that he valued me and thought I was doing a great job. So I knew it wasn’t that he didn’t think I was capable, and that helped. I told myself that he just wanted to help me succeed and was offering helpful tips to make my job easier. When he did things like tell me to drive safely on my commute home (in clear weather, on non-busy roads), I would reply, “You too!” and remind myself that I would rather have a boss who cares about my personal safety than not. There are still occasionally times when I sometimes have to take a deep breath before replying, but things are overall much better.

  18. Work from home tips?*

    I’m about to start working from home at least one day a week, and I was wondering what tips the commentariat had in order to stay productive. I’m concerned I’ll be working and see a shiny object and… Fire away!

    1. Ann Furthermore*

      Don’t work in your jammies. Get up, shower, get dressed, and ready for the work day. When I work at home I’ll still wear comfy clothes like leggings or yoga pants (because, hey, that’s one of the benefits), but I still go thru my morning routine (minus makeup) and prepare to start working.

      I’ve had to get up a couple of times for a call at 5AM or some other ungodly hour, and for those, and a few times, I’ve started working after they were done, and then the next thing I knew it was noon and I was still in PJ’s.

      1. MissMaple*

        Yeah, I agree. I definitely have to go through my morning routine, even if I pare it way down to work from home (no makeup, hair to air dry, comfy close) to feel like I’m ready to start work. Then I make sure my work area is set up in a way that isn’t ambiguous. I don’t sit in the same place set up the same way unless I’m working. Even if you don’t have an office, I was able to use my kitchen table successfully by getting a special chair pad and sitting facing a different way than I do when sitting at the table in non-work mode. Enjoy :)

      2. Wendy Darling*

        I dress for work with the exception of shoes: I work from home in slippers. But I still get up and brush my teeth and do my hair and dress like I’m going out into the world because it puts me in the right headspace.

    2. Ann Furthermore*

      Meant to add that when I go through the routine of preparing for the work day, I feel more focused and I’m more productive.

    3. [insert witty user name here]*

      Make sure you have a quiet, dedicated space for work. Sit at an actual desk and, if possible and available to you, use an extra monitor and a real keyboard and mouse. Make it as close to your set up at your work desk as possible. Don’t leave the TV or music on in the background (unless that would be similar to your office setup). Don’t leave any chores to do around the house from the night before (oh, I’ll clean up these dishes tomorrow on a break!) until you get used to working from home and know you can keep it to a short 5-10 min break and DEFINITELY don’t leave any fun stuff lying around!

      1. [insert witty user name here]*

        Also – make yourself a task list in the office the day before you work from home with several concrete tasks. That way, you can check your productivity until you get more in the swing of working from home.

        Make sure if you live with anyone, they will not be distracting you (exceptions: the occasional dog belly rub or cat snuggle. Best work from home benefit EVER!)

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          And if you do have a cat, you may need to employ the following strategy:

          Take out some papers. Pretend to read them. Wait until your cat lies on them. Then get out your actual work materials…

          1. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

            Hah… I once got busted because of my cat. He had a super loud purr and I’d never been questioned about it. One day I was on a call and one of the guys said ‘hey, what’s that rumbling sound? Does anyone else hear it?’ My boss laughed and said ‘Oh, that’s probably Ello’s cat I think she’s working from home today’. They both laughed and the first guy asked how big the cat was and if that was a normal sound that he was making :)

            1. Work from home tips?*

              This is my fear! One of my dogs gets uppity if ignored and will “talk” to me. Given Murphy, it will likely happen when I have a Meeting and not just a meeting.

              1. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

                Well I can only tell you to make sure you’re on mute if you yell at him. Gather round kiddies, super duper embarrassing story time!

                I was on a call with about 10 other people and I had a new puppy at home. I went to join the call, but before I did, I noted that puppy and cats (3) were all quietly snoozing on the porch. I go into the office and start the call. About 15 min in all hell breaks loose on the porch. The cats have the puppy cornered, she’s crying and barking, the cats are hissing and growling, in other words mayhem.

                The porch was an add on so the office windows actually open to the porch, so I put myself on mute and start yelling at all of them through the window trying to get the cats away from the puppy. Only, my mute button didn’t work. So here I am swearing and yelling to all of my coworkers, who are laughing hysterically and trying to figure out what on earth is happening. OMG I wanted to curl up and die!

                Luckily this wasn’t a Meeting(TM) but just a meeting, however there were some high level people on it. It was never brought up to me again (Thank goodness!) So.. if it does happen, my advice is to drop from the meeting, deal with your dog, and then claim technical glitch when you rejoin!

                Oh, and NEVER TRUST THE MUTE BUTTON, IT LIES!!!

                1. Ramona Flowers*

                  Oh now this is funny. I think I’ve told these stories on here before but while working from home as a journalist I did phone interviews…

                  – with a Canadian politician while walking around with a catnip mouse on a stick as playing was insisted upon (I was recording the call)

                  – with someone from the OED while holding a bag of cat poo as I had to empty the litter tray RIGHT THEN to prevent my kneecap being shredded

              2. LAI*

                Yes! My dog is needy and will bark at everything. I rarely have to skype in from home but when I do, I give him a bone and close him in another room until it’s over.

            2. copy run start*

              My cat will be passed out in another room until the phone rings…. then it’s MEOW MEOW MEOW to the world! If allowed he’ll get in my lap and nuzzle the bottom of the phone where the speaker is. I have to make sure he’s in another room with the door shut to take work calls at home.

              Once a client called me direct (not how it’s supposed to work in my case) with an issue and I assumed unknown number = scam call, so I answered without putting him up. Had to interrupt the troubleshooting to put the cat away because he started to howl for attention in the background. Absolutely mortifying.

          2. All the Words*

            Why have I never thought of this? Many attempts at grading student papers get thwarted by a cuddly cat claiming them as her own.

            1. Ramona Flowers*

              I also have to have two chairs at my desk, because the one I’m using will be stolen any time I get up.

            2. Windchime*

              I solved the cat problem by making a little bed for him right on the desk next to my keyboard. It’s just a folded piece of fleece with a sheet of tissue paper over it, but he loves it and it keeps him from walking over my keyboard. He still demands to sit on my lap periodically, but he will settle down on the tissue-paper-bed eventually.

          3. Amber T*

            I bring two sets of pens and notebooks home. I take the first set out, doodle on notebook 1, then innocently place them down next to me. Pens get chased and notebook gets sat on/chewed on. Real pens and notebook comes out for real work. (This works about 50% of the time.)

      2. Emmie*

        I second the chores comment, and the dedicated space. I work exclusively from home. I must have all of my chores done the night before otherwise I am tempted to do them. I also have a dedicated location to do work. If you work from home more often, I recommend getting an ergonomic set up – but it is not necessary for one day per week. One of my biggest current challenge is turning work off for the day. I did not have that problem when I worked from home only one day per week.

    4. Anony*

      I find it most helpful to plot out what I need to get done that day. I am not hourly, so if I write down the goals then I can make up the work if I get distracted in the middle of the day. For me, sometimes this means I don’t really get started until noon and work until 8, but that is ok because the work got done.

    5. Summer Sun*

      Don’t advertise your WFH ability to friends/extended family, and manage the expectations of the other members of your household. Being at home during the day doesn’t mean I can play phone tag with the repairman for my brother, or let my mom have her signature-required packages shipped to my house since “I’m just sitting there anyway”. My husband knows that I attend meetings via Skype, and if he happens to be home, he cannot play music or TV in the house during that time.

      I learned this the hard way. My husband was home sick, and extremely tired and cranky. He started blasting a profane stand-up comedy special while I was on a conference call with my professor. I had to frantically mute the phone and scream at him to turn it off, as people cackled on the line. I’m just glad it was school and not work!

      1. Emmie*

        Hahah! I agree about advertising the WFH status to others. I’ve occasionally been asked to pick up someone’s kids from school (I cannot), or pestered because I did not have dinner ready for a former fiance (hello, I am working!)

      2. Former Retail Manager*

        OMG YES!! My household is multi-generational and includes my 72 year old mother who thinks that working from home means I can chit chat with her throughout the day, take long lunches and go to the mall in the middle of the day. Ummmm, NO! And then my daughter gets home from school before my workday is over and wants to chat about her day/homework/etc. I’m glad companies offer it, but it’s not for everyone. Despite my best efforts at managing expectations, I have opted to simply go into the office and basically forget about working from home for this and other reasons.

    6. Ramona Flowers*

      Keep an eye on the time as it’s easy to get hyper focused and forget to eat or take breaks. And no TV during work time!

    7. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

      My advice is a little counter intuitive. When I first started working from home I found that I felt guilty for doing things like eating lunch, getting up from my laptop, or logging off on time.

      I was worried that people would think I’m slacking if I didn’t answer an IM or email immediately. The day that I finally figured it out was when I was starving and didn’t have anything to eat in my house. I was going to just ignore it because I felt guilty walking a couple of blocks to grab a quick bite. I thought… this is stupid if I were in the office I would run out to grab lunch, why would it be different here.

      Also echo what others have said, get showered and dressed, observe normal start and stop times, I don’t use a desk, but I have a ‘work setup’ that includes a large monitor, keyboard, etc. and a space that is private and not shared with people doing other activities. I used to keep the tv on for background, but now have more calls so it’s easier to keep it off (same with music).

      I have a love/hate relationship with working from home. I love the flexibility, but sometimes hate that it’s not quite setup as well my office.

    8. Samata*

      I echo what others have said about getting up and getting dressed and ready – even if it’s just into comfy clothes that aren’t PJ’s.
      I kept the TV on in the background with a show I didn’t care about at a low volume or talk radio. It actually helped my focus because there were voices and not stunned silence in the background – similar to work now. (that could vary on how you are set up at work though)

      Also, because I have a more flexible schedule I’ve found other things that helped were getting up early, checking email, taking a break to make my coffee and have breakfast and then starting my day. I also made myself go outside to at least get the mail mid-day so I’d get some fresh air and out of the house a bit.

      Good luck working from home – it can be great if you get a good pattern/routine down!

    9. Lady By The Lake*

      What everyone else has said, except — I sometimes find that without the background ambient noise of phones ringing or other people talking in the office, I get antsy. I often play NPR or music very softly just to give myself some quient background sounds. Keeps me focused.

    10. NeverNicky*

      I can only echo everybody else. Getting dressed is key (although I sometimes do an hour in jimjams if my partner has been dithering and hogging the bathroom).
      Plan your day – and put in lunch breaks, tea breaks and don’t be afraid to take them (voicemail on!)
      Don’t feel you need to be more productive than in the office and strain for that – the extra productivity will come
      If you can, work the hours that suit you best – be that an early start, two sessions with a long lunch, burning the midnight oil
      Don’t do chores unless it’s in your scheduled breaks (and stop when your break is up!)
      Don’t have social media, WhatsApp etc open apart from breaks (I wish I could stick to this but social media is part of my job!)

    11. Former Retail Manager*

      Maybe not so much a productivity tip, but basically be honest with yourself regarding your productivity or lack thereof. I can’t tell if this is your first ever WFH gig or just your first time with this employer. I know so many people love it and swear they’re productive. I’m not one of them. I am HORRIBLE. Brief repetitive tasks are fine, but anything requiring in-depth analysis and work just doesn’t happen when I’m at home. I need that separation. I now work at home a few times a year. My position has the option to work at home full-time if one so desired. If you realize that you’ve done everything you can and just aren’t productive, be honest with yourself. I’ve just known so many people who aren’t honest with themselves and it has eventually come back to bite them in one form or another.

    12. Windchime*

      Wow, everyone else is so disciplined about getting up and dressed. I should probably try that. I work from home one day a week and I love it. I usually start the day on the couch in my pajamas while I’m drinking tea. After an hour or two, I get dressed and change to the computer in my (home) office area. That computer has dual monitors and a better setup. The nature of my job means it’s OK to step away occasionally so I usually do laundry on WFH day. My boss does ask that, when we step away, we put a brief notice on Skype (“brb 5 mins” or “lunch, back around 1pm” is enough).

      I would say I’m more productive on my WFH day because the interruptions are fewer. I can get into the deep-focus state more easily. Sometimes I turn on music but mostly I like it quiet.

  19. BF*

    I work in a niche field that is slowly going away due to Federal budget cuts. I have done a lot of project management but all the jobs seem to want experience managing in their field. Any advice on how to present my resume to a wider audience?

    1. MissMaple*

      I’d start by looking at the keyword they use in the postings and seeing how you can address them with your own experience. For example, you may not have done X in the field, but you’ve done similar in your field, so make sure it’s worded similarly in your resume so the person reading can see the similarity. I’d also make sure to write a strong cover letter where you can really dig into why your experience is applicable. Good luck!

    2. Aly_b*

      I’m currently trying to hire a project manager from one of several niche fields adjacent to mine so there definitely are people who want this, if it helps at all. I would emphasize industry experience and general familiarity with particular types of project team roles, technical terminology, etc,

  20. Lil Fidget*

    Urgh, it has been SO HARD for me this week not to resign, although I don’t have anything lined up yet (I’ve been searching for months and came really close a few times, which is only adding to my sense of senioritis). I really think it might be better for me and the company for me to quit at this point – after five years I’ve completely lost my enthusiasm for the work , and I’m worried my bad attitude will be noticed. I’m even having trouble motivating myself to job search because everything just seems like more hard work and misery. However, I’m aware that this would be a stupid thing to do – quit with nothing lined up, what would I do for insurance, what if I didn’t find something for a lot longer than I anticipate. I am afraid my boss will pull me aside to ask about my changed attitude and it will all come spilling out. (And before anyone suggests a vacation, I just got back from a week off over the holidays!).

    1. Hildegard Von Bingen*

      When you get to the point you’re at on the job, a vacation probably won’t help, because you know you’ll have to return to something you really don’t like.

      Keep looking for another job. Be relentless about it. Make that your job – finding another job. The fact that you came really close a couple of times is a great sign! So keep looking. If you need help getting motivated, maybe see a counselor. It helps to be able to talk about your feelings – but NOT with your boss, if your feelings are negative and you don’t see a way forward to resolving your work issues and staying in place.

      You need to separate emotionally from the job and start focusing on your own needs and how to get them met. At this point, do your job adequately and put your energy into moving on. You sound as if you’re mired in a sense of helplessness. But you’re not helpless. Find someone to talk to about this, someone outside of work. And KEEP LOOKING!

      Best wishes. Please hang in there. You can do it.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Work for your resume as opposed to working for your company.
      This means try to work in such a manner that you can add things to your resume or you do things that you can share with an interviewer. So instead of begrudging task X, tell yourself, “Oh this might be interview material. I will see if I can streamline/simplify/coordinate/whatever task X so that how I handled it will look great on an interview or resume.” Stop working for the company and work for your own betterment.

      1. SebbyGrrl*

        Building on No So News input.

        When I was at job I had to stay in where I could not improve the situation I focused on tiny things days to day.

        I got a good parking space today, winning!

        I worked on being extra kind to others and noticing that that made me feel better, gave me energy and dexterity to jump back to work I couldn’t succeed at and coworkers who…weren’t good for me.

        That’s when I found AAM and ready it daily revived me, at least it wasn’t only me!

        I thank myself for little things like eating well, getting out of the house, being on time (good job, You!) thanking the computer for not freezing, being grateful someone’s email was kind, just noticing all the teeny good stuff and calling it to my own attention.

        These may sound small and silly but small patches of brightness saved me, kept me moving a few more paces beyond where I thought I could get on any given day.

      2. Fortitude Jones*

        Work for your resume as opposed to working for your company.

        This is the only thing that kept me sane when I was stuck working at Evil Law Firm. I volunteered to do just about everything in that place so I could have a wide breadth of experience to put on my resume. To them, it looked like I cared about my job and the firm (I didn’t), and to the next place that ended up hiring me, it made me look like a rockstar. I ended up getting a new job with the latter company making about 31% more than what I was making at Evil Law Firm – if I had let my negative experience with that place dictate my work ethic, I never would have been hired into something better.

  21. Pierre*

    Hi there, I’m about to take on the greatest challenege of my career!

    I became a project manager 5 years ago after 10 years as a software developer, all within the same company. I built my project team from scratch by “stealing” some developers from other teams and recruiting others joining the company.

    Five weeks ago, I have accepted a project manager job in a different company. This job is in a different industry and comes with a huge salary increase. This position became available because the programme manager left the company, and the project manager took his role. I will therefore replace this project manager, who is the person I will report to.

    Do you have any advice about project manager joining a company and having to lead an existing team? As I have built my current team from the scratch and at a slow pace over the years, this is something I find daunting so I want to be sure it all goes smoothly right from the beginning.

    For example, I was thinking about bringing a box of biscuits on my starting day, leaving it on my desk and invite people via email to come help themselves so that we can introduce each other and have a chat. Or arranging a one-on-one meeting with all the people in my team so as to find out about their skills, experience, aspirations, pet peeves, etc. Are those good or bad ideas?

    Many thanks in advance for your wisdom and advice!

    1. Shesellsseashells*

      Admin assistants. They know everything. Learn all their names, and say hello to everyone.
      And if you can, offer ‘stretch assignments’ .

      1. Amber O.*

        Ditto to this. Admins can definitely make integration into the new office easier, and they know the ins & outs of the office better than anyone else since they typically have a wide scope of support.

    2. Undine*

      For me, the box of biscuits is off-putting. It emphasizes the care-taking, parenting aspect of the role over the professional one. The one-on-one might be good, but don’t ask directly about their pet peeves, especially since you don’t know who the square pegs are and you don’t want to imply you’ll fix things that are unfixable. Not coming in the first day and saying, “From now on we’re going to use AgileScrumWaterfallKanban with pictures of pigs and chickens on everyone’s desk” is a plus. Of course change happens, but it doesn’t have to happen the first minute.

      I don’t think it’s all that different from getting to know people as an engineer, only with a higher-level focus.

    3. Media Monkey*

      listen a lot (more than you talk) and hold off on imposing your way of doing things before hearing and understanding why they do things the way they do. then i’d suggest speaking to them individually to find out concerns/ needs/ ambitions etc.

      good luck!

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Keep your word. Even if you do X and it tanks, go back to the person and say you did it but it did not work out. Keep your word about everything.

    6. copy run start*

      Scratch the food, comes off wrong to me. (Reminds me of a certain disliked VP from an old job of mine who would go to branch offices and sit in the break room with a platter, then send an email telling us to come down and visit them.) Instead of trying to get people to come to you, why not make it a point to go to them? Ensure you’ve spoken with all of your team members by the end of your first 1-2 days, but do the in-depth one-on-ones in a few weeks when you’ve broken the ice with them.

      1. serena*

        I agree with this! I been through starts with several new managers, and there was only one who scheduled one-on-ones. He was by far the best. People were a little nervous about the meetings, since he scheduled them even with people who reported to him on a secondary basis (i.e. he managed their managers). He asked what we did and what we thought could help us do our jobs better. I am sure it helped give him the lay of the land, and it made everyone else feel more comfortable talking with him. He just send calendar appointments to everyone for 20-30 minute blocks. If your environment is more casual, you could invite people to have coffee or a beer off site. Honestly, I would suspect that these one-on-ones would be the best use of your time in the first week or so on the job.

  22. Foreign Octopus*

    Has anyone used Skrill before? I’m using it for the first time this month because PayPal still hasn’t verified my account. I’m a bit nervous about it and wonder if any of us have previous experience with it.

    2. Turkletina*

      I don’t have an account, but my company does use it to pay people (for casual, usually one-off tasks). It’s reputable and works in basically the same way as PayPal. The fee to withdraw to a bank account is pretty steep, though. It’s a flat fee, so you’re best off making one big withdrawal when you need the cash instead of withdrawing every time money comes in.

      1. Foreign Octopus*

        Thank you.

        I was worried about its reputability because I’m only familiar with PayPal. It’s comforting to know that your company uses it.

  23. Morning Glory*

    Suggested language on how to gently tell someone to stop sending so many requests?

    Our team went down an admin, and those of us remaining divided the list of people she supported until a new person is hired. One manager who is new to my list has always been notoriously high-maintenance and rude, sending requests for little things that most staff members do themselves. Our org has defined expectations for the level of support each title gets, but she ignores this.

    My supervisor has already sent an email around letting everyone know that our bandwidth is limited until we hire a replacement. I am a non-exempt employee and our org has no budget for overtime, so this is really important to fulfil my responsibilities to the other people I support. Privately, my supervisor also told me to push back on unreasonable requests – which I have so far, on a one-by-one basis, like a request to review and sign a contract for her. Instead of saying ‘no’ twenty times a day, I would like to send an email about the pattern, and basically ask her to stop sending the requests in the first place. I was thinking of sending a note like the below, while cc-ing my supervisor.

    Does anyone have any suggestions to improve the language? This person is senior to both me and my supervisor, so I don’t want to alienate her.

    “Hi X,

    I wanted to send a quick note to manage expectations about the level of support I can provide, along with my other duties. I am happy to help with X and Y in a pinch, but this is not a standard part of my responsibilities, and I cannot handle these requests along with providing support for everyone else. This is particularly true until we replace Arya, as we have less admin bandwidth across the board. I would like to ask that you handle these tasks on your own rather than send them to me, unless extenuating circumstances make that impossible.

    Do you think this sounds reasonable? Please let me know if you have any concerns or about this, and we can discuss potential solutions.

    Best,

    Morning Glory

    1. BadPlanning*

      Can you make it more straightforward? I feel like a busy senior person will sort of skim over and forget it.

      “Due to staffing changes, currently I can only help out with X or Y if it’s an emergency. The majority of requests will need to be prioritized through Boss. This will unfortunately continue until Ayra is replaced.”

      2. brrrr*

        I would also suggest referring her to the official policy.
        “Per the expectations for support laid out here I cannot provide support beyond x, y, and z. Any changes to that would need to be prioritized by Boss.”

        This also gives you something to point when manager is angrily complaining about not getting the support they’re used to.

      3. Morning Glory*

        I hear what you’re saying on length, and that’s a good point – I can try to shorten it. Issues are – there is no Boss to prioritize my work, and this is going to be a permanent change.

        Arya should have been pushing back on these requests all along, and now I am supporting a person who thinks it’s ok to request these things because Arya never protested (leading to performance problems for Arya). That’s one reason why I added in the padding language, but you are right that straightforward may be better.

        1. Snark*

          Then in which case, it gets even simpler. “Unfortunately, Boss has directed me not to provide support for X and Y, as limited administrative support bandwidth will make it impossible for us to assist with self-service tasks moving forward. Thanks for your understanding.”

          1. Morning Glory*

            I like that language, and it’s very matter-of-fact, but I want to clarify that my supervisor is also far junior to this manager – not an authority source that she would respect.

            1. Natalie*

              I might phrase it using the passive voice a bit more, then, and not allude to it being a change. “I’m afraid out department does not provide support for X and Y, as limited administrative support bandwidth makes it impossible for us to assist with self-service tasks.”

            2. Snark*

              That’s okay – junior or not, this is why Boss is your boss, and it’s 100% OK to let her deal with it. “I understand this is important to you, but I’ve been specifically directed not to provide support for self-service tasks, so you’ll have to contact Boss to determine how we’re going to prioritize this. Thanks!”

              And if Boss needs to run it further up the chain because she’s getting flak, she can and will.

              Also, always refer to X and Y as self-service tasks. It just underlines that she’s actually expected to do this herself, and that they are so defined by the org.

            3. Snark*

              Also….the thing is, she’s accustomed to browbeating people until they just do the Thing for them because it’s less of a hassle than dealing with her attitude, so you’re going to need to hammer on this repeatedly. Just keep blandly replying that you’ve been directed not to provide support for self-service tasks due to limited admin availability.

            4. Rusty Shackelford*

              my supervisor is also far junior to this manager – not an authority source that she would respect.

              But you’re not saying “You have to do this because my boss says so.” You’re saying “I have to do this because my boss says so.” It’s not your responsibility to negotiate with this manager.

      4. Rusty Shackelford*

        Yep. One of the most useful things I learned in a business writing class is to not tell people that you want to tell them something (I want to send a note, I have to ask). Just tell them.

        Also, your note is unnecessarily apologetic, as if you were asking for something you didn’t really have the right to ask for. Your supervisor has already told this manager that these requests aren’t appropriate. All you need to do is send a reminder of what X has already been told to do.

    2. Reba*

      In this letter, you are implying that the reason for turning down her requests is because you are short staffed–suggesting that when you replace Arya you will take them again. (I know you also say “standard part of responsibilities,” but that’s the main impression I’m left with.) It’s like you’re asking her to wait, not to fundamentally reform how she uses your time. Just something to think about. Good luck!

    3. Snark*

      Too long. Use the military’s BLUF approach: bottom line up front.

      “Hi X,

      Unfortunately, Boss has directed me to treat X and Y as self-service tasks except in emergencies due to limited administrative support bandwidth, as they are not tasks I typically support. If extenuating circumstances apply, please contact her so we can determine priority. Thanks!”

      1. Snark*

        More better: “Unfortunately, Boss has directed me not to provide support for X and Y, as limited administrative support bandwidth will make it impossible for us to assist with self-service tasks moving forward. Thanks for your understanding.”

        If she wants to demand you do it anyway, refer her to Boss.

        1. Beatrice*

          Also – respond slowly, and use language that clearly ends the conversation, and then stop responding after one or two pushbacks. You don’t have time to do this work for her, and you also don’t have time to provide instantaneous rejections to support requests or engage in endless arguments over whether you should support it.

      2. Happy Lurker*

        Don’t even mention the emergencies…or everything will be one. I had a someone we had to do this with and everything was an emergency after she was told not to bother me with minor things! If it is an emergency, then they can contact your boss and ask you to do the task.
        X&Y are self service tasks that admin can no longer perform. Please see boss for further questions or concerns.
        Good Luck!

    4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      This sounds like a conversation that should be had in person, rather than by email (you could follow up with an email summarizing your discussion and reiterating the support you can provide).

      1. Snark*

        Oooh, I disagree. In person, it’s much easier to get browbeaten and talked over. Email all the way.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Yes, it’s harder to have this conversation in person. But it still needs to be done; any potentially sensitive/critical/etc. conversation needs to at least start in person. I know I’d be pretty taken aback if someone junior to me sent me an email laying down the law (and copying her manager) without ever talking with me.

          (And in this case, it’s not clear that Morning Glory or her boss actually have the final say in what kind of support folks get; there’s a policy that hasn’t been followed, and the person making too many requests is senior to both Morning Glory and her boss.)

          The conversation needn’t be drawn out. Morning Glory could use the same scripts everyone is offering here, and can follow up by email.

          1. Rusty Shackelford*

            But that conversation doesn’t require Morning Glory. She’s not a junior person “laying down the law.” She’s a junior person saying “this is what I’ve been told to do by my boss,” which implies that if you want her to do something else, you need to work it out with her boss.

          2. Morning Glory*

            Hi Victoria,

            This is a helpful perspective, thank you. An in-person meeting for this specific person is not a good option, but I am trying to avoid the appearance of laying down the law.

            What would make this more palatable for you via email – if I did not cc my supervisor?

            For context, I would not be sending this email out of the blue – my supervisor already sent around an email, and I have declined individual requests already.

    6. The Ginger Ginger*

      In addition to all the other comments, I would also add – If there is a list or policy already in place for what tasks can be sent to you, and it’s in writing somewhere, attach it or link to it at the end of your email. You can say something along the lines of:

      “If you have any questions on what I’m able to assist with, see the attached (or below) documentation. I’m happy to help where I can.”

      Be clear and sound pleasantly helpful without actually agreeing to help on anything outside the tasks you’re allowed to perform.

    7. MissGirl*

      Get rid of “Do you think this sounds reasonable?” It introduces the opportunity for her to argue and it doesn’t matter if it’s reasonable to her.

  24. GG Two shoes*

    Interesting thing happened to me this week.

    In October, I applied for a job. I passed the phone interview and had a in-person interview that I thought went really well. Fast forward a few weeks and I got the rejection letter. I mentally moved on and didn’t think anything about it. Two days ago, I got an email from the hiring manager saying that her and the manager really liked me and wanted to know if I would be interested in any other positions there!

    This hasn’t happened to me before, but it’s good to know that my radar wasn’t way off. I thought we clicked really well in the interview so I’m glad I get another shot!

    Here’s to a interesting start to 2018!

    1. Hildegard Von Bingen*

      First, congratulations on moving on rather than stewing about the initial rejection and tearing yourself to pieces wondering what you did wrong.

      Secondly, it’s obvious you did everything right. So congratulations on two things: getting your initial impression that things went well validated, and getting a second opportunity for a new, and hopefully great, job. Good luck!

      If you’ve read AAM for any length of time, you probably know that this kind of call-back sometimes happens after an initial rejection. So it’s not all that out of the ordinary. You must have made one hell of a good impression.

      1. GG Two shoes*

        Oh, thank you so much for the sweet reply! Both the hiring manager and the person who would have been my manager did say that my cover letter was the best they had ever seen. I took a gamble with it- they would either love it or hate it but they liked it! I got so much inspiration from AAM these last few months. The community here is invaluable.

        Thanks again! I really appreciate being able to share this news with someone!

  25. Anon for this*

    I have an awful and awkward situation right now that I’m struggling to wrap my head around. We have a disgruntled ex-employee who was let go. His work had issues, he was informed and given multiple chances to improve, and ultimately we couldn’t afford to fund his improvement efforts any longer after zero improvement. Based on his actions before, during, and after being let go, his mental stability is questionable and he fully blames everyone but himself for his termination. A few months after being let go, he sent a “hate email” to one of the 2 managers involved in his termination. This seemed to be triggered by his interview at another company we’re affiliated with, where he spent a good amount of time bad-mouthing our company. We ignored this incident, hoping to not add fuel, and moved on. Recently (an additional few months later), we believe he sent a 2nd hate email to the other manager. The 2nd email wasn’t from his personal email, but an unknown address that used an alias. Based on some minor googling, I have pretty convincing evidence that it’s him. These emails are awful, attack the individuals personally, and include death wishes (although not actual threats). We don’t know what the trigger for this one is.

    What would you do with this situation? So far, we’ve set up all emails from these addresses to filter, so the intended recipients don’t see any additional hate mail. We’ve reported the accounts that sent them. We’ve spoken with the managers who received them, who both understand that we’ll support them however we can. Is there anything we’re missing?

    1. Manders*

      Does your building have security? If it does, it’s a good idea to talk to them about this person and make sure they can’t get into your office. If it doesn’t, now’s a good time to come up with a plan for how to handle things if that person shows up unannounced.

      I think you’re doing the right thing by filtering the email messages and not responding to them. It’s a good idea to save them somewhere, just in case you need a paper trail. You could talk with the police, but I’m not sure whether death wishes (but not threats) will actually trigger any kind of action on law enforcement’s part.

    2. BadPlanning*

      I think I’d review general security policies. If you have security, do they have a photo/description of this person? Do employees know they can get an escort to the car (if they can)? Are all security lights (and other safety/security things) in good repair? Review the polices on who can be let in the buildling where (especially if you have badge access area).

    3. MechanicalPencil*

      If you haven’t already, I would certainly document everything and keep electronic and paper copies of the emails in case any of this escalates to the point of needing police involvement. Also, alert your building’s security and ensure that these managers have feel safe walking to/from their cars. This is definitely a scary place to me in, and I’m very sorry this is happening.

    4. Anon for this*

      There’s no security for our offices or the building. Just locked doors in evenings and on weekends. I’m not sure what we would do if he showed up in person, or what we even could do. It’s unlikely that anyone who works here would let him in, but maybe it would be good to make an announcement to assure that. I wouldn’t want to alarm anyone, but it’s an alarming situation. He’s more of the words and not actions type, but he also seems very fixated on us being the cause of his current unemployment. We’ve tossed around the idea of connecting with the police anyway. I guess the worst thing they could do is tell us that they can’t do anything, right? So we’d be no worse off.

      1. Jules the Third*

        Yes, connect with the police just in case, and notify your employees not to let ‘ex-employees’ in. Ask the women in your company what they consider safe or unsafe about your company premises and consider how you can improve. For example, can you ask the police to drive through your work parking lot around closing time once or twice a week? Consider hiring a part-time security person for 2 – 3 hrs around closing time to patrol the lot / manage the front door?

        My experience has been that the parking lot is the area with the most hazard from disgruntled ex’s, but that’s anecdote not statistic. Googling ‘workplace safety disgruntled’ came up with a Fisher Phillips page that recommends hiring a security consultant group to check your office (along with keycard access, a security guard, and cameras). Asking female employees is the cheap version of identifying issues – women are usually very aware of their vulnerabilities.

        1. Natalie*

          I think a general warning about not letting ex-employees in is fine, but given this specific person’s behavior I think you need to mention his name specifically.

          1. Anon for this*

            I agree. Most of our ex-employees left on positive terms, so it would be odd to announce that they shouldn’t be let in if they stop by. I do think our parking lot is well lit and it’s very close to the building, so it’s not a far walk by any means.

          2. Elizabeth West*

            Yep, this is what an old job would do when someone wasn’t to be allowed into the secure area. They would send an email only to the receptionists and the admins who covered their lunches. It only happened a couple of times during my tenure, although in one case, they had police standing by in the parking lot the day they fired the guy. 0_0

    5. Ann Furthermore*

      Document everything, to the point of reaching out to law enforcement if necessary. At my last company, one person reached out to HR after hearing another employee threaten to bring a gun to work. They contacted the police, and then disabled his badge. Keep a paper trail in case you need it later.

      This is part of a bigger, important conversation about what to do about people who make threats or behave erratically online. There have been so many examples recently of people committing crimes, and then later, finding out that multiple agencies were aware of the person’s instability, or had been contacted by people who’d been the recipients of online threats. Many law enforcement agencies don’t have the bandwidth to follow up on all the tips of this nature they get.

      There was an officer shooting in Denver on New Year’s Eve (about 5 miles from where I live). 5 cops were shot, including 1 who was killed, by a man who opened fire on them after some sort of altercation with his roommate. The local police, the police where he used to live, the law school he used to attend — they were all aware that he was unstable and potentially dangerous, and yet this happened anyway.

    6. PM-NYC*

      I would recommend reading the workplace violence chapter of “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker. I don’t want to try to summarize and accidentally oversimplify his advice, but I think it would be helpful to read.

      One thing is that I would periodically check the filter these email messages are going to, to see if the language escalates in further emails. Does he come across as hopeless? Does he talk about violence or owning weapons? Do the frequency & intensity of emails increase to a point of obsession?

      Agree with others about contacting the police. I would also implement an active shooter procedure & be open with employees if possible. Basically use this situation to be thoughtful about security measures which will be great to have in place even if this guy doesn’t prove to be dangerous.

      1. Anon for this*

        The emails are set up to filter to an account monitored by the person who handles our network security. Thankfully there have only been the 2 emails so far. They are short and extremely cruel, but he doesn’t discuss himself and the words are very targeted for the recipient. I’ll check out the book. I’ve meant to, since it’s brought up here so frequently anyway.

        We do discuss security on occasion, so hopefully this will at least trigger some thoughtful discussion. We’re a pretty small company (under 30 employees), and we rent a small office that we don’t have a lot of control over. We do have one employee who was on good terms with the ex-employee before he left, and I’ve wondered if they’re still in touch. However, if they are and the current employee is aware of this behavior but never reported it, I’m not sure I’d trust anything he decided to share with us.

        1. PM-NYC*

          Gotcha, hopefully those emails were the last of it and he’ll lose interest. Would the company you rent office space from be willing to beef up building security? I know that might be a hard sell though.

        2. ..Kat..*

          I think the targets of his emails should know about any subsequent emails. I don’t agree with keeping these potential emails from them. They have a right to know if the emails continue.

          1. WWF*

            +1
            Keeping the targets of the emails in the dark as to the timing and nature of potential threats is paternalistic and leaves them vulnerable. Your company should keep them informed so they can take whatever steps they think necessary.

          2. Anon for this*

            They’ll be informed if anything else comes through. The content is very cruel and mean spirited though. The goal is to prevent them from having to read these awful things.

            1. ..Kat..*

              they are adults. I think they should be the ones to decide whether or not to read the emails.

              1. Anon for this*

                And they can. After an email is received, they will be notified with the content summarized and they can decide if they want to read it. In the case of the 2nd email that was sent, the recipient was so upset by the preview text that she simply forwarded it to IT to check for viruses. I read it and made sure there wasn’t anything she needed to know, and she has refused the read the rest. It got much worse after the preview text.

    7. The Ginger Ginger*

      If he DOES show up, I think you need to let team members know to immediately alert management and call the police. It would at least be trespassing on his part, and given the previous (and ongoing, because he doesn’t seem to be letting this go) threats, a call to 911 is warranted. My main concern is that you say you don’t know what you would do if he did show up, so you need to have a plan for that for sure. You may not need it, but it’s better than not having one and finding you need it when he’s standing in reception.

  26. DC*

    So, I’ve had someone send me a posting for a position they are hiring for because they’d like me to apply/strongly want me in the position. I’m trying to decide what to do:

    1. It’s nearly 10k+ under what I strongly prefer to be making post-graduation.
    2. It would mean staying at the university, so 25%underpaid based on market value.

    But:
    3. She’s my favorite professor, and a role model and mentor. Learning from her would be huge.
    4. It’s at most a 2 year posting.

    Thoughts?

    1. Lil Fidget*

      The big question to me is opportunity cost. Do you have a sense of what your realistic ability is to get another job that would be better? If you think there’s a very good chance you can get a higher paying job that will still give you opportunity to learn, that’s what you’d be missing out on by taking this.

    2. Undine*

      Talk to her and find out more. If you’re relationship is really good you can bring up some of those concerns and ask her what she thinks the long-term would be.

    3. Pepsquad*

      1) You might prefer to be making more, but that doesn’t mean you will. Have you been applying/looking so that you have an idea of whether you willl make what you’d prefer?
      – is there a very strong liklihood that you’d get this job and that after two years it could lead to bigger/better things? Or do you stand a good chance in the general job market right now?

      2) If you would like this woman to be a mentor – wouldn’t it be better to speak to her directly about this? Rather than work two years at a job, that pays less than you’d like. You don’t mention what you’d do or whether you like the role itself. You could first ask if you could speak to her about the role, and how you might learn from her if you’d apply as that would be your main reason for applying.

      I think there are a number of things to weigh up:

      -Firstly will you enjoy the job itself and does it meet your career trajectory? Will you actually get the opportunity to learn from the professor to make this job worth it – or does it have other merits on it’s own?
      -Do you need to work with this woman to learn from her? It seems an extreme way to go about things.
      With having a connection with both the person who passed along the job and the professor it seems like you could have some informal discussions to see whether the job would be worth the potential 10k pay cut, and you could see whether you could create an informal connection/mentorship relationship from this instead.
      -Also I think you need to look around and see what the competition is

      There’s also the real possibility that you might not get the job after you apply, in which case looking around at other roles and speaking with the professor seem important.

      Basically I think you’d need to investigate this one!

    4. Temperance*

      What is your degree program in/what are your career goals? Will this job put you in line with them?

      If you can stay out of the pink ghetto as a recent grad, I highly recommend it.

    5. That’ll happen*

      I’d also compare benefits offered at your university to those of companies you may want to work for (if that information is available). Typically academia makes up (a bit) for lower salaries with better benefits – more vacation time, half days on fridays in the summer, really good health insurance, etc. This is all assuming that you are in the US.

      Also does your professor have contacts in industry that would be able to help you find a new position when this one ends? This might be a great networking opportunity as well.

      I say apply for the position but apply for others at the same time – don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Once you have more information, both about this uni job and other opportunities, you’ll be able to make a more informed position.

  27. Manders*

    People in fields where effort and skilled work put in doesn’t always equal results you get out, how do you keep your eyes on the prize when nothing you do seems to be affecting the end results?

    I’m in SEO, a field of marketing where you can see no tangible results for a long time and then your traffic may start climbing (or even spiking) months after you complete a great project. I’ve been in this job for over 6 months now, and I know I’ve improved tremendously at what I’m doing, but most of my job right now is just plugging away and waiting for that work to pay off. My boss is confident that we’re doing the right thing and I’m doing a great job, but coming in every day and watching the traffic continue on this plateau is really frustrating!

    2. SebbyGrrl*

      Are there other metrics?

      Your Boss’s confidence is one good one.

      Is there a tool(s) you aren’t using/could create that might show you other trends, data that are other measure’s of success.

      Seems like this could be comparative to a sales person who doesn’t sell a lot but their relationships with their clients are invaluable to the company.

      Also SEO is kinda notorious for this so give yourself some credit and go looking for ways you are already succeeding that you may not see or have a measure for.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      “when nothing you do seems to be affecting the end results”

      So you’re maintaining your current position and not slipping down the ranks? That’s not nothing!

  28. Seeking Permanent Employment*

    Early last year, I decided to change industries and was able to get a temp job in my new field. My contract is almost up, and I am job hunting again. What is the best way to make it clear in my application materials that I was a temp so that it’s not held against me that I was only at this job for nine months? Also, my original contract was supposed to be two and a half months and I was extended for good performance, but couldn’t be extended longer due to rules about how long the agency is allowed to hire temps, should I mention that in my cover letter or wait until the interview to bring that up?

    1. Red Reader*

      March 2017 to January 2018
      Combing Specialist, Llama Groomers, Inc (contracted through Camelids Agency)

    2. Amber O.*

      I’ve had to list temp/contractor work on my resume and have always used something like this:
      March 2017-January 2018
      Teapot Inspector – Drinkware Temp Agency, providing temporary contracting services for Smith Teapots, Inc.

    3. Fabulous*

      I usually will add “Temporary Contract” next to the position name, and then have used the first bullet point to expand “Completed 12-month temporary employment contract via with Llama Herding, Inc.”

    4. Nacho*

      Put “temp” next to your job title in your resume. It’s a commonly recognized practice for exactly what you want to do.

      I wouldn’t go as far as to list the temp agency, because that’s not nearly as important as who you worked for.

      1. AnonAndOn*

        I’ve heard that one should list the temp agency when listing it on a resume because the agency is the employer and not the company.

        1. Seeking Permanent Employment*

          What if said temp agency is known for hiring disabled people? I have an invisible illness and would prefer to avoid disclosing this before I get an offer if possible.

    5. Product person*

      What Amber said, or something like this:

      Mar-Oct 2017 (Temporary 3-month contract extended to 9 months)
      Teapot Inspector – Hot Tea Inc via Drinkware Temp Agency

  29. Grits McGee*

    Hey, fellow archivists- How seriously would you take crowd-sourced digital transcription/metadata projects on a resume? (Ex- Smithsonian’s Digital Transcription Projects)

    I’m already employed as an archivist, but I exclusively deal with paper and there’s a real demand in the field for people with digital experience. Unfortunately, I can’t take a second job to get the experience (current job prohibits). It looks like most non-internship volunteer opportunities don’t have a lot of quality control, which makes me wonder how meaningful it would be on a resume.

    1. Goosepimple*

      As you say, it’s tricky because of the lack of oversight or someone who could speak directly to the quality of your work. Definitely better than nothing, and might be a small boost for a role that didn’t demand a ton of previous experience with digital resources. Since you seem to be ok with volunteer projects to address the experience gap–would it be worth approaching some smaller archives/museums/etc. to ask if you could assist them with a digital project? They’d be getting help from someone with archival skills and you’d get a reference?

      NOTE-On resume, do be sure to note the number of hours and/or transcribed documents completed.

    2. former archivist*

      If it’s crowd-sourced work, it’s not really equivalent to professional experience, unless the crowd in question is only made up of certain professionals. In a previous job, I worked at an archive where I did some transcription, so technically, it can be considered a duty that archivists do. I would treat it as volunteer work at best, if you already have a section like that on your resume. Or you could mention in your cover letter that you have participated in online transcription projects for the Smithsonian. I no longer work as an archivist, but I would recommend web, database, or programming experience if you can get it. Online tutorials or just tinkering around can be a good start. I worked on digital projects and metadata. I found knowing how to use Access and Excel were extremely helpful. So were creating simple batch files and using the command line prompt. I also did some website maintenance. HTML or CSS or even WordPress are good to have some familiarity with. Good luck. I know it can be frustrating feeling trapped without the experience you need to move on.

    3. lisalee*

      I’m not sure if just a general crowdsourcing project where anyone can log on for awhile and do it would bump a resume much for me. I would try to look for something that has at least an application process, preferably a position title of some sort (X Project Volunteer, etc), etc.

    4. Dan Crawford*

      There is totally a demand for digital archives, speaking as someone who has been looking for a repository specialist. I’m not sure I would read much into participating in a crowd-sourced metadata project unless you organized or oversaw others in some way, or implemented/documented some kind of procedure. I would recommend subscribing to the code4lib listserv so you can see what kinds of digital projects are going on.

  30. Anon for this*

    I could use some advice on a tricky situation. I’m planning to move to a different state in a few months and will most likely be leaving my current job at the same time (it’s possible they’ll allow me to work remotely for a while after I move). I’ve been wanting to move on from this job for a while (I’ve been in my current position for four years and been in my industry for eight) and am excited for a change, but there are a couple of issues I’m going to be running up against very soon:

    1. I have a great relationship with the head of my department (who was formerly my direct manager but got promoted) and she has been advocating for me to get a promotion for the last year, but no positions have been open during that time. I feel bad knowing that I no longer intend to stay with the company while she’s looking for opportunities for me to grow and advance.

    2. This is only my second professional position, and my former company was acquired by my current company last year. This means that almost all of my managers from my last job are now working with me again. This makes the pickings pretty slim as far as my reference pool (my first job out of college was at a coffee shop).

    So in light of this stuff I’m wondering if I should tell my department head that I’m planning to move on, both so that she can start looking at other candidates for an eventual promotion, and so that I can ask her to be a reference in my upcoming job search. She’s been a mentor to me and has always been great about giving me opportunities so I want to be honest with her but I worry that it might cause problems. Managers: what would you want me to do if I was your report?

    1. Reba*

      re: Feeling bad, remember that as great as your manager is, she is doing her job by looking for promotions and opportunities for you to grow. I mean, she’s also doing it because she likes your work, but it’s not a personal favor.

    2. Jules the Third*

      Don’t tell her specific plans. Do feel free to mention that you have a timeline for new opportunities, but keep it very very vague (eg, in the next few years). Things change.

      Do get all your work documented so that when you do tell her, you can say, ‘I’d like to keep working remotely for x, but if not, here’s the projects I’ve got, their status, and how to do the next steps / get to the end goal.’ That ‘get to the end goal’ planning will help you with current job anyway.

    3. LAI*

      No need to feel guilty about your manager, or to tell her anything until you know for sure. It’s not like she’s really going out on a limb for you or anything, she’s just doing the normal work of being a manager.

      Regarding your reference pool, I had the same situation (first job out of college, stayed for 8 years). Are there people who you’ve worked with in other offices who could speak to your work? Or even people who know your work ability from other contexts? When I left, I was able to use a former boss who had since moved on as my main reference, plus a recent supervisor from a graduate internship, and the director of another office that occasionally coordinated work with my office.

  31. Stishovite*

    I’m re-joining the job market after trying to start my own business. So I’ve been self-employed for the last 7 years.
    What do I do about references? Especially when my best potential reference has since retired, and I haven’t been able to track down contact information for him?
    I do have other references, but this is the 2nd time I’ve tried to re-enter the market (I’ve been doing gig jobs in the meantime, and those don’t really provide good references), and I’m a bit reluctant to got back to those references with the implicit failure to find a job the last time I hit the job boards hard.

    1. Stishovite*

      I should add that the start-up business was in no way related to the jobs I’m applying for, so clients and the like for the start up business aren’t really appropriate for commenting on the skills I would be using in a new job.

      1. Jules the Third*

        The start-up clients can talk to your work ethics and personality, which is actually really important. Skills are from prior job tasks, references are for ‘is this person easy to work with and manage’.

    2. JustaCPA*

      I hear you loud and clear. I was in exactly this same position except it had been almost 20 years since I had a “boss” I did eventually manage to track him down but he had retired, moved out of state etc.

      I ended up getting a job due to my Linkedin profile and an interview but in general my focus was to target my personal connections (I didnt bother with my clients as my self employed industry was completely different then my new one – think teapot maker to CPA)

      There is no easy way to be honest. My next step was going to be doing some season work in my industry in order to get more current references in accounting which is very possible in my industry but I dont know if its at all possible in yours? Also, target your schools alumni – most schools these days have alumni facebook groups if not their own forums and job seeking/job hiring boards.

  32. Aleta*

    So I’ve been in the service industry for a while, but just got laid off and took the opportunity to do temping/temp-to-hire instead since being on my feet all day was just way too rough on my body. I just got a very nice receptionist position I’m excited about (good pay at a good company, very hands off, “if you finish all your work it’s fine if you discreetly read an ebook on the computer as long as you drop it as soon as someone needs something and honestly we’d rather you did that because trying to find extra work for the bored receptionist has been a problem in the past”). And it very much sounds like it’ll be a lot less stressful than at a restaurant – customers might be stressed, but they won’t be verbally abusive, and the overall volume is less than the places I’ve worked.

    But I wanted to ask if there’s anything you think someone doing office work for the first time, particularly transitioning from the service industry? Also any good blogs for business casual looks for women? A friend the same size as me (TINY) who also works in a business casual office is taking me thrifting for clothes but the more inspiration the better because I have a grand two shirts and one pair of slacks.

    1. Reba*

      Extrapetite is a fab blog. A lot of her looks are business appropriate, and she talks not only about petite styles but about how to shop for garments that can be altered well for petite needs.

      Good luck with your new job!

    2. Don't Blame Me*

      Sorry, I don’t have any advice but I just wanted to say that I’m so jealous of your job. I’ve tried to break into office work a few times because I know I’d be great at it, but I don’t have much relevant experience and can never seem to get an interview. Good luck!

      1. Aleta*

        Try temp-to-hire if you’re able? I also have zero office experience except for being an Excel and Access tutor in the past, but they were able to place me quickly and it’s a good way to prove yourself without the company having to make a big commitment.

    3. AndersonDarling*

      As far as wardrobe, I’d go to Penny’s when they have a sale on their Worthington line and get some skirts/pants. The last time I went I got 2 skirts and 2 pants for about $60…and they wash up so easy.
      As far as transitioning from service to office, my husband did the same thing and he had a hard time with language and …how shall I put it…teasing. You may not be coming from the same environments, but he was in places where people teased each other and everyone constantly jabbed (insulted) one another. Although he knew that wasn’t appropriate for the office, it was tough finding the right way to communicate. In restaurants, gentile jabbing was a way to build relationships and trust and that does not fly in other settings!

      1. Aleta*

        Haha, my restaurant was actually very much like that, but I’m bad at that sort of thing and never participated (and everyone was cool with it because everyone there is lovely), so no worries on that! I totally wouldn’t have thought of that though, and it’ll probably be weird to not have that as a backdrop.

    4. Colette*

      My advice: spend some time learning the programs on your computer (which probably include the Office suite) in your downtime and, if possible, using them to do work. This sounds like a good opportunity to get skills that will give you new options for your next job.

      1. Aleta*

        I’m actually very proficient in office software! It’s the reason I was able to get hired so quickly (like, less than a week). I actually tutored Excel and Access in college. No worries there.

      2. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

        This is great advice. There are quite a few sites that offer free to almost free ‘classes’ for applications like Word, Excel, and others.

        The ones I’ve investigated and used for my team are conducive to being started and stopped as needed so as not to get in the way of other work.

    5. Cookie D'oh*

      Some blogs I like:

      You Look Fab
      Wardrobe Oxygen
      Putting Me Together
      Jo Lynne Shane
      Corporette (skews a bit more dressy, but you can search through the archives)

    6. N.J.*

      Corporette and The Work Edit (Capitol Hill Style) are my goto workwear blogs. They can get s bit pricey with the clothes they display but both make decent attempts at lower budget looks too. Extra Petite might be useful to look at too, since you indicated you are tiny.

    7. RabbitRabbit*

      It’s a little more formal and higher-priced usually, but Corporette has a “Frugal Friday” weekly call-out of a good-priced item. They also have a link in their right-hand sidebar to their business casual guidelines, which has a lot of great tips on clothing fit and ideas for pieces to pick up.

    8. Natalie*

      This may or may not be an issue for you, I just mention it because it was an issue for my ex when he went from the kitchen to an office: in general, in a restaurant or whatever there’s a set of tasks that need to be completed every day before that day can end, and there’s little to no spillover to the next day. Offices can be completely different, with projects stretching over weeks/months/years and little to nothing that must be completed every day. It’s just a different way of organizing work and can take some time to adjust to.

    9. Bobstinacy*

      I went the other way with my career (5 years doing IT support and doing administrative tasks to culinary school and beyond).

      There’s a lot of skills that can be translated to offices; setting up and implementing systems, organizing information, interacting with customers, communicating effectively with coworkers and management, and of course working under stress.

      Did you work front of house or back? FOH will have more crossover than BOH but even then there’s skills that can be translated to admin work.

    11. ..Kat..*

      Consignment stores in the “rich people “ part of town can have great buys. Do you know how to sew? Or get a good tailor. Quality clothing that is not overly trendy will last you a long time. Also, don’t buy too much until you know what the office normal dress is for your position.

      And, most importantly, congratulations!

    12. DDJ*

      Once you’ve gotten a feel for things, if you like it, speak up! Particularly when your boss asks you how things are going. When I asked a recent temp worker how things were going (in a regular check-in) he said “I was excited to come on with the company, and the team you have here is wonderful. Things have been going well so far!” It made an impact on me.

      If the opportunity comes up to extend the contract or offer a position, I already know that the temp is excited about the company and gets along with the team (I did ask my employees what they thought, and he got rave reviews). That puts him in a pretty good position.

  33. paul*

    how far in advance should you start job hunting if you can’t start for a few months? We’re here until my wife graduates in May…really can’t relocate until then. I know where we’re moving to for her work and schooling, would it be good/bad/indifferent to start looking there?

    It’s complicated by the fact that I’m likely (not 100% but pretty likely) going to be the trailing spouse so we may only be there 2-3 years, depending. So I’m not sure how much I should prioritize growth opportunities vs getting a paycheck ASAP (and hopefully an OK one) once we move.

    1. Jules the Third*

      January is a fine time to start looking for May opportunities. A lot of companies hire around then. Don’t sweat the ‘growth opportunities vs getting a paycheck’ too much, look for a balance.

  34. KayEss*

    Just a vent: I’m in a position where I know, technically, who my boss is, but I’m not sure HE knows that. The director resigned without plans for replacement and my direct manager is being laid off (but without an exit date on the books yet… yeah), and the next person in the chain of command is the VP of a tangentially-related area that we got rolled into under a recent re-org. He has no idea what our department does (well, did), even in terms of what services the remaining three of us are still providing to the organization, and presides over an extremely dysfunctional department that has always been actively antagonistic to us and our work. I’m seriously considering resigning without having something else lined up if I wind up officially in their org chart without the buffer of my manager and the director between us… I don’t think my mental health can’t take it. I have 1.95 feet out the door already, anyway.

    I’m supposed to show up for an organization-wide meeting on Tuesday to smile and nod and pretend everything is fine while the president bloviates and outright lies about how far in the red we are for six hours, and I’m not sure I can stomach it.

    1. KayEss*

      Update: one of my last two coworkers quit without notice this afternoon, taking a position that let her start immediately, because of the uncertainty around what is going to happen to us. I get to take on half her duties, with my (about-to-be-laid-off) manager taking the other half. Wheeeeeeeeee.

      Can they please just can me already so I can collect unemployment while job-searching full time?

    2. WellRed*

      If they are laying people off, why do you think they lying about being in the red? This sounds like you need to get out ASAP!

      1. KayEss*

        Oh, I mean he’ll stand on stage for an hour and tell us all that we’re only in 25% much debt as we actually are and everything will be fine, we can pull through, etc. I don’t know if things are truly as bad as the rumors flying around, but they’re definitely worse than the official statements… but he doesn’t care about long-term health or success, just getting another entry for his resume and a golden parachute. I’ll be absolutely shocked if this place isn’t closed within five years.

        I’m definitely getting out, it just feels harder when I come home every day so demoralized.

  35. Deer In The Office*

    Going slightly anonymous for this one since it’ll be easy to identify the work place if there’s any coworkers who read this.

    Came back into the office Tuesday and heard lots of murmuring:
    “How’d it get through the double pane window?”
    “Someone would have heard it. Had to happen when people weren’t around.”
    “When did this happen?”
    “Imagine if nobody had been in on Saturday, he’d be waiting for us this morning.”

    (At this point, I’m thinking someone homeless broke in because it’s been -20 and colder wind-chill lately.)

    “The bullet damaged a few pieces of equipment. You can even see the hole in the wall!”

    (Well….THAT seems an extreme reaction to someone homeless…)

    Finally, I grabbed someone and asked what happened. Sometime over the weekend, a deer broke in. Shattered the double pane window, ripped off an antler, and broke its leg. We had a few people working on Saturday. Thankfully, one of them had to print something off in that department. Otherwise, nobody would have known until Tuesday! I saw pictures of where the deer broke in. Looks like a crime scene. It’s all we’ve talked about all week.

    1. Reba*

      Poor deer. That happened in a building at my university once. I was also amazed the young guy was able to do it.

      1. Deer In The Office*

        The cop who did it was a hunter. The few witnesses who were there said it was as humane as possible.

    2. AshK434*

      Is the deer okay? Did your colleagues call animal control or some other assistance to help that poor thing out?

      1. Summer Sun*

        Once a leg is broken, they almost always put them down.

        Source: living in the boonies and hitting deer with my car pretty much yearly.

  36. Emi.*

    Awg, one of my colleagues has asked me to edit his report. I think he thinks it’s basically done and just wants a quick sweep for typos he missed, but it’s … not. It’s awkward and stilted and frequently unclear. The most awkward and unclear paragraph details, as far as I can tell, a semi-complicated way to avoid using a totally standard and statistical technique automated in any statistical software package. Some parts vary wildly in formality, even within sentences. Other parts just have to be read three times to be understood. And when I give him these notes he will probably say “Oh, I didn’t need that much detail.”

    Narrator: “He did need that much detail.”

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Hmm, TBH I wouldn’t put your time into helping this colleague unless you have a good reason, like it would affect your job if his report goes over badly. That’s time you could spend advancing your own career instead of boosting someone who didn’t ask for your help and by your own admission probably wouldn’t appreciate it.

      1. Shiara*

        I agree. If he’s just expecting you to sweep for typos, I’d sweep for typos, and then maybe say something like “You may want to consider revising for consistency in formality, and I found the point of paragraph X unclear.” and then leave it at that. This is assuming it’s his report, with his name on it, and you don’t have any formal authority or responsibility to make sure his reports are high quality.

    2. Undine*

      If he’s said that before, you could just say, “I’ve looked at this, and I don’t have time for this after all. If it was my report, I would revise it extensively before I sent it out, and helping you with that is much larger in scope than I thought. However, from previous interactions (example here), I think that’s not what you’re looking for anyway.”

      If he continues to push — spelling mistakes only! — you say, I’m not a proofreader, I’m a Llama Report Specialist, and after so many years (or whatever), I can’t put that aside when I review a Llama Report.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      This happened to me recently. I kind of had to let it go and send corrections for typos only and point out where some specific wording might be awkward. It’s a tough thing to do, especially if you like to write, but let his report stand as his report.

    4. Summer Sun*

      I ask what level of editing people want, because I was burned several times. It stinks to put time and effort in when it isn’t appreciated.

      In the future, you could say “What level of corrections are you looking for, on a scale from Urban Dictionary to OED?”

      2. SebbyGrrl*

        This,

        Or I sometimes remind people, I am an organizer, accountant who loves words and values well directed written materials.

        Given that, are you asking me to only check typos or do you want feedback of the structure, flow and content?

        This usually solves things upfront.

        Or “Do you want my edits or my expertise?”

        If I have done this out front and the requestor tries to back peddle when I give them the edits “Your audience is X, they know Y if you don’t tie X to Y they will make this inference/deduction.”

        Other times when I know someone isn’t a great written presenter I ask how they have framed their report/document/presentation, do you know your audience, does this document answer a purpose, is it the correct purpose for this meeting/project, etc.

        I try to address structure and reasoning, flow of thought.

        If the requestor is wishy washy to any of this “I’m probably not the right person to help you on this one.”

    5. NW Mossy*

      Oof, I’ve got the same thing sitting in my inbox right now. The PM on a project I’m supporting has sent around her guides to the team for review, and her written communication is very similar. Trying to reshape her work into something usable for anyone else is really more time than I want to put on this, but at least she takes edits well.

    6. nep*

      Agree with others — sounds like it would be best to say you could look it over for typos but that it needs substantive editing and he should contact someone for that if he so chooses.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Why not just tell him to read it out loud to himself, make as many corrections as he can THEN, you will look at it for him.

      This is that preemptive strike against “I didn’t need that much detail.” You don’t need this much work, and you can show him that through your refusal to edit anything that he considers less than his best-best effort.

      My boss and I will read for each other. I would say that on average we find maybe one mistake. That’s it. Because we do not give each other work that we have not been over with a fine tooth comb.

  37. Eva*

    So disappointed we won’t be getting an update to the letter about Jan and John and the Stoma bag. I really wanted one for that letter.

    2. Goya de la Mancha*

      wait what did I miss? Like we won’t get one EVER or just in the near future?!
      I NEED an update for that letter!

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        I had to go check. The LW felt she’d been attacked in the comments and said she wouldn’t be responding, or even reading comments at all in the future, though she’s a regular AAM reader.

        This is why we can’t have nice things.

        2. Temperance*

          I thought that most of the comments on that letter were fairly tame? That’s a bummer. I mean, most of us thought Jan was a monster and LW was in over her head with a ridiculous situation … which, I mean, any of us would have been.

          1. Girasol*

            Pls share our apologies. Surely most of us if not all of us meant no offense. Sometimes a quick text comment sounds more short tempered than it was meant to be.

          2. Observer*

            I’m with Girasol. I see from the responses to that comment that some of what I said could be taken as an attack, although I totally didn’t mean it as such.

        4. PB*

          Oh, that’s too bad. I remember a lot of comments about Jan being awful, but I don’t remember anyone attacking the LW.

          1. Lil Fidget*

            I will say, having written a letter once, it’s a very odd experience to read the comments when they’re about you. People are just a lot more brusque and absolute than you feel in the moment, and it can feel like a criticism even if its NOT. (And as a fairly frequent commenter, I do the exact same thing). I didn’t read that one so I don’t know if there was piling on but it’s a vulnerable place to be.

            2. PB*

              I can see that. I wonder if it maybe came across as even more harsh for a post like this, where people had such a strong reaction.

              1. Lil Fidget*

                Yeah mine was totally neutral and boring and I didn’t even feel that strongly about it (more just curious as the etiquette) and I still felt that way! So I can’t imagine an emotionally charged one.

              1. Ramona Flowers*

                I felt fine when my own letter was answered but I’m still very angry for the person who was afraid to tell their parents they weren’t going home for xmas and had a bunch of internet strangers telling them to ‘grow a pair ’. Like it didn’t take strength and guts to survive their childhood. I am still angry about that one.

            4. Not So NewReader*

              This can happen in person also. People’s decisiveness can make us feel “less than” very quickly.

          2. Ask a Manager* Post author

            I don’t either, although I didn’t read everything. I think it can be hard to write in and feel like people don’t understand all the nuances of your situation are making judgements based on incorrect assumptions, even if those judgments aren’t super harsh. And especially when there are 900 comments or whatever that post got. It’s the nature of having people comment, but I get why it can be a little overwhelming and sometimes frustrating.

            1. merteuil*

              One possible issue is that sometimes (especially with the short-answer posts) some questions are very long (especially when reading on a phone). I often find myself skimming or not even reading the question and just skipping to the answer. Case in point: today’s question about expensing travel is five long-ish paragraphs. Alison, have you ever thought of editing them?

              1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                I edit for clarity, but I don’t usually remove entire sentences/paragraphs. It’s an interesting point though; maybe I should! I’ve traditionally been hesitant to do it because I figure whatever I take out will then turn out to be relevant in some way that I didn’t predict. But yeah, at least with the short-answer posts, maybe I should consider it sometimes!

                1. WellRed*

                  I always assume editing for length would take too much of your time. But, many times I find myself thinking, this writer keeps saying the same thing over and over, just with different words.

                2. Ramona Flowers*

                  I think this is risky as you might miss out something that’s important to the letter writer.

                3. Huxley*

                  Please don’t do this if you don’t need to. I have never found the length here prohibitive. If I want to read something, I read it! Maybe I’m weird but I think it’s weird to ‘skip over’

            2. Troutwaxer*

              Maybe the short version of the commenting rules should read, “Please be kind, stay on-topic, don’t repeat points everyone else has already made, and follow the site’s commenting rules.”

            1. Big Person*

              Yes. I felt they were piling on her for her comment about not being able to address John’s behaviour towards Jan when I don’t think she meant it the way most people took it. I think she just phrased it badly. I don’t think she was looking to have John in trouble for treating Jan poorly after what she did, but rather that his behaviour was rather benign towards her in light of what she did to him.

              1. Lissa*

                Yup. I have to say I often feel the “tone” of the comments towards OPs in similar situations can get very harsh when taken all together. There is a LOT of “You NEED to do this immediately” and implications or outright statements that the OP is a bad manager or even bad person for not reacting strongly enough the way the commenters want. And/or they take one line in the thing then go pretty far in criticizing what they think was meant. And like…I think a one on one conversation with some of these criticisms might be OK but to see it repeated over and over again is not nice.

                I stopped reading the comments on that letter because I felt so badly for the OP so I am not at all surprised at her reaction.

                1. Windchime*

                  I stopped reading the comments on that one, too. Mostly because it became clear after several hundred comments that hardly anyone was reading the comments before commenting, so it felt like the same thing was being said over and over and over. I can understand how the letter-writer felt piled upon. I’ve been a “team lead”, and there really was very little authority. My job was basically coordinating the workflow for my team, and doing some time-card tasks. That’s it. No ability to hire, fire, discipline or anything else like that. So when people started being outraged that the OP was doing nothing, it was frustrating for me.

                  I really wish people would read the comments before they start commenting, because I think that would really cut down on the pile-on effect when they see that their point has already been made several times and there is no need to make it again.

        5. Murphy*

          That’s a shame! I didn’t think it looked like she was being attacked at all, but I have been trying to work while dealing with a sick baby, so I may have missed something.

          1. bibliovore*

            Sometime the comments assume things not in evidence. I did stop reading those comments because of the pile-on criticizing the OP for not contacting the Director who was on leave as no one actually had the authority to discipline or fire Jan for her outrageous behavior.

            OP was erring on the conservative side as she did not have the authority.
            Piling on was not helpful.
            The helpful answer would have been. Yes, this behavior is so out of the norm and so offensive please contact the person who has authority immediately, here is the language to do so, and yes, reach out to the injured party and say what action that you have taken.

            I hope we hear for OP because G-d forbid any of us are ever in this sort of position at work.

        6. Wow*

          These are just a sample of the comments left for the OP. I can see why they are upset. Some of them are not nice, and some tell her to overstep her authority (which would risk her job). She was also attacked for giving a complete picture of what happened. People mistook her giving all the details as being against John:

          OP, stop wringing your hands. Get with HR, get with your boss, get with the goddamned CEO, and stand up for John and basic decency.

          you need to be thinking in terms of “how do I let people with decisionmaking power know this happened so we protect the company from this Costco-size sack of banana crackers” not “I cannot discipline her because I am but a team lead, what do?”

          There comes a time in every team lead, manager, or supervisor’s working life where they have to know when to shunt the rules off to the side and exercise their own judgement.

          ALSO: there are times when you should exceed your authority if your boss is unavailable. This, along with physical assault, is one of those times.

          You don’t need “authority” to refuse to work with someone who treats you like garbage.

          Jan should be fired, so treat her time now as if she is…back his decision to do that regardless of his or your authority to do so.

          No, my dear/dude, you do not need to be worrying right now about whether John has the authority to refuse to work with her

          Try to suspend or fire Jan. Jan has proven that she is not someone you would want working on your team, and this isn’t a one-off event of bad judgment: She has repeatedly shown bad judgment through her continuing actions here. Try to feel as little guilt as you can

          I’d go so far as to argue that it’s essential to do this if you aspire to become a manager in the future. Managing is about the “hard power” of firing/discipline to some degree, but the true managing work often gets done via the “soft power” of influence through discussion

    3. This Daydreamer*

      I’m hoping she sees the supportive comments on her update and takes them to heart. I can understand why she feels overwhelmed – there was a lot of negativity in the comments, even though 99% of it was aimed at Jan.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I definitely noticed the 1%, though it seemed like most of it resulted from being unclear about what the OP was actually able to do–for John, and to Jan.

        I still hope she comes back and tells us Jan has been strapped to a rocket and shot into the sun, and that John got a massive raise because his work is so good.

        1. Jean (just Jean)*

          Thank you for the idea and image of strapping one’s troubles to a rocket and then firing it. (insert cartoon facial expression: a grin with many teeth.) It makes me feel so peaceful* to imagine this scenario with a wide variety of difficult circumstances, people, and objects. Bonus: It’s so outlandish an idea that it’s clearly a fantasy, so no guilt whatsoever! Yes, this is definitely a keeper. The (imaginary) sky is going to look like the Fourth of July around my head.

          * As the rocket goes whoosh I can feel the load lift from my shoulders.

  38. Blue Anne*

    What are everyone’s professional goals for 2018?

    I want to stabilize my property business, and get moved up to Staff Accountant at my day job.

    1. Manders*

      My biggest professional goal for the year is getting better at balancing work and life stress. I burned out hard last year, mostly due to life stresses that weren’t really in my control, but being in a place where I knew my concentration and memory weren’t up to snuff was really scary. I already know 2018’s going to be stressful and I’m trying to plan ahead for that.

      I’d also like to keep improving at what I do, and to finally see some big results (which aren’t totally in my control at this point, so that’s not really something I can set as a goal).

    2. stitchinthyme*

      Am I the only one whose answer to this question is “I want to stay right where I am”? I’m an introvert and chose my particular career (software development) in part because it does not require me to have a lot of interaction with other people. I have never aspired to management, I make a pretty good living already, and I don’t need to make obscene amounts of money. I like to learn new things and solve new problems, but I can (and do) do that in my current position. And I work to live, not the other way around — I like my job, but it’s not my passion; it’s the thing that enables me to pursue the activities I truly want to do.

      1. anyone out there but me*

        Is it bad that I don’t have any? At all?

        I just want to continue working as I am, earn my paycheck and live my life.

      2. Blue Anne*

        There’s nothing wrong with that at all. I’d love to get to a place where I want to stay right where I am!

    3. Alex*

      I will be relocating/leaving my current job in a few months when my partner finishes grad school. So my main professional goal is to find something new that is interesting, challenging, or at least flexible to allow me to pursue my non-work related interests. If I can’t find a job right away, I imagine volunteering or pursuing some online learning opportunities.

      1. Bibliovore*

        I would like to complete my dossier to go up early for promotion to Full.
        I would like to have an endowed chair within the next five years.
        I would like to complete and submit a book manuscript in 2018.

        oh, and still have a work life balance. Here is to a healthier, happier 2018.

    4. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

      Last year I went from grossly to slightly underpaid. This year I would love to get a competitive salary, if I don’t get a better paid job.

    5. SilverRadicand*

      I want to get promoted to Project Manager. I want to start doing electronic signatures.

    6. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Finish grad school and get a job in my new field. Confident on the first one, less so on the second one. :P

    7. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I want to take charge of custom projects and really spruce up standard ones. Unfortunately, some of the plans we made at the end of the year that would allow me to do exactly that kind of fell through the cracks for reasons out of our control. So I want to make sure I stay motivated and excited about implementing some of my ideas.

    8. Middle School Teacher*

      I am on the negotiating committee for our cba so my goal is to get the best deal I can for our people without letting the negotiation process turn me into the Hulk. I’m hoping it will be better this time, because last time we were starting from scratch, and one of the people on the other side was so odious and hard to deal with that I was so stressed and angry all the time. So my goal is also to be as calm and non-Hulk smash through the process.

    9. Underpaid Bookkeeper*

      I want to make a living wage salary. Last year I only made $15k which I think is just gross considering I have a college degree. I had asked for a $4/hour raise over the summer and they only gave me $2/hour. I haven’t decided what route I want to take.

      I can’t decide if I want to go get a full time job at a big company with benefits and everything. I have a feeling to do that I’ll have to endure a 3 hour commute (round trip). Or if I want to try and pursue my own business and take on my own bookkeeping clients, do quickbooks training, etc. I feel like to make enough money to live that is the way to go plus I get the benefits of a flex schedule as I’d like to have a baby in the next year or so. I don’t have any benefits now so it’s not like I’ll miss those.

    10. nep*

      Land some freelance / contract work in a field I’m looking to re-enter after a few years away; re-establish myself as a consultant in said field and get steady work.

    11. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      Find out what my job actually is and if I want to do it. My company was acquired at year end and now we are part of a much bigger company umbrella (I’m fine with the merger itself, needed to happen). My job, however, is completely TBD. I’m the only one of me who does what I do in the old world order, and basically just a team of me. Company that bought us has 4 of me and boss of all the me’s. I’ve been unofficially told by current boss, who will soon be former boss as she got a bigger role, that I have a role in the new world order. But no one will tell me what it is (same thing I do now and join the existing team of me’s, or something completely different, which is viable, because I have specific experience and they are doing the thing company-wide which requires specific experience). My possible new VP level boss kept walking by my desk this week and saying “hi”. But literally nothing else after “hi”. He must know SOMETHING, but no one will tell me anything. I even jokingly said to an executive assistant “I wish I could move desks, the vent above mine has me freezing all week”, and she said “Well, YOU can pretty much move anywhere you want”. What? What does that even mean? Who knows anything and why are they being so WEIRD? *head explodes*.

    12. Fortitude Jones*

      My professional goals for the year are to become adequate with InDesign and the Word templates my company uses for our proposal projects. I have extensive Word experience making e-books and doing the layout for print books, but these templates act wonky and I need to figure out how to fix them to save everyone’s sanity (my coworkers who have been here for years still have issues getting the templates to always act right).

      I also want to improve my writing ability, mainly learning how to write to sell since I’m essentially on a sales team.

      Finally, I want to go back to indie publishing this year. I haven’t published anything since 2014 because I got sidetracked by making fast bonus money at my previous employer. Now that I’m in a job where I’ll be writing all day every day and doing little else, I hope it inspires me to get my butt in gear so I can release two more novels and maybe a couple of short story collections/novellas.

    13. SebbyGrrl*

      As my post elsewhere today discusses.

      I want to find remote/from home work.

      That pays what I’m worth (currently way under that).

      Ideally in a writing capacity but I can do almost anything except work more than 1 day in an organized office/work place. (Disabled veteran working through complicated PTSD, AAM helps me SO much but still not ready/able to be anywhere on a schedule and ‘the public’ isn’t a place I can do great work right now).

      1. Someone else*

        One thing I encourage you to incorporate into your search: work from home does not always = flex schedule. I’m not sure if your statement about “being anywhere on a schedule” only applies to literally going somewhere else, and not when you’re at home, but if the schedule bit applies even to working from home, it’s important to note that you’re both looking for remote work and a flex schedule. My company (and others we work with) have many remote workers, but office hours are still office hours and people are expected to be working during that timeframe on workdays, with occasional exceptions for specific meetings or projects.

      2. Natasha*

        Hey this is a few days late, but I’ve read before that there are federal programs that encourage hiring disabled persons and/or veterans for government agencies and companies who contract with government. I’m sorry I don’t have more details, but hopefully you know where to look for info like this? Maybe VA? Good luck.

    14. Hildegard Vonbingen*

      Learn more, both OTJ and through independent study. Spend less. Save more (I’m a saver anyway, putting away about 30% of my net each year, but I could do better).

      This isn’t strictly a professional goal, but it’s related: Learn more about investing so I do better than get a measly 1.75 percent at Ally Bank on a no-penalty 11-month CD. Yeah, that’s better than I was getting at my credit union, but I’ve been putting off getting into things like equities, etf’s, index funds, etc. with my own money, and it’s time to turn that around.

      I’m waiting for a market correction, which is inevitable given the market’s current frothy condition, and then I’ll take some “piss-away” money and start to buy and sell individual stocks, etf’s and/or index funds just to get my feet wet, take my lumps, learn the ropes (including the tax ramifications of gains/losses in different investment vehicles), and then go bigger. So much to learn! I’m not looking to get rich, just to ensure that my capital gets a better return that it does now.

      The stock market scares the living daylights out of me because it seems like gambling, and I am NOT a gambler. But I know I can do better than what I’m doing now in terms of ROI. It’s getting over the initial trepidation (it’s emotional, and it’s strong) coupled with my relative ignorance/lack of experience that are the big stumbling blocks. I’ve done well with real estate, so this is the next big hurdle for me.

    15. Mimmy*

      My goal is to move up and out of my current state government job. This March marks one year there and I have so many decisions that I really need to start making because my job is technically classified as a temp position (I call it “perma-temp”), which makes me ineligible for the benefits afforded to permanent state employees. My husband has a good job so we’re fine in terms of income and health benefits, but I’d like something that will allow me to grow, and I don’t think it’s going to happen in this current situation.

      My other goal is to make a decision about my career focus and what sort of professional development or educational resources I will need.

      In short: My goal is to break out of this cycle of indecision and start gaining some forward momentum.

  39. Incantanto*

    Off on my first business trip later this month. Any general advice for business trips? Especially being the most junior.

    Also, its sweden in January so any tips for warm smart dress for women?
    I also realised when I travel I normally use a hiking backpack as luggage. Would this look bad?

    On another note my company is currently in a very odd mood as our CEO passed away recently. Any advice on dealing with funerals for bosses, or being an englishwoman at a sikh funeral?

    1. always in email jail*

      If it’s a conference: Bring a scarf/wrap in your bag, the rooms are always freezing. And bring a portable battery pack to charge your cell phone so you’re not searching for somewhere to plug it in halfway through the day. Don’t forget business cards (maybe invest in a nice business card case if you’d like to)

    2. Natalie*

      If you have the means to pick up a hard-sided wheely suitcase, I probably would. Since you’re the most junior and this is your first business trip it’s not a huge deal if you can’t afford it or whatever, but generally speaking it does seem more advisable to not have your luggage stand out.

    3. SL #2*

      I travel a lot for work, both for conferences and for our own programs. Any way you could replace the hiking backpack with a small carry-on suitcase? It honestly looks more professional, especially if you’ll be traveling with a group of coworkers more senior to you, and it’s easier to keep your nice work clothing wrinkle-free that way.

      I do agree with email jail above me: portable battery packs and wraps/scarves are always useful in any sort of meeting room, whether or not it’s a conference. I’ve never been to Sweden, but I imagine it to be cold and snowy everywhere during the winter, so I’d suggest a nice sweater and slacks with some minimal jewelry, or a sweater dress with fleece-lined tights while indoors, and if the weather is awful, everyone else in your group is also going to be bundling into heavy winter jackets and snow boots while outdoors, so you won’t look weird for doing so, honestly.

      If you’re taking a flight, any chance you could be seated away from your coworkers? Not by a ton, but maybe a row ahead or behind. I find work trips to be a lot less stressful if I have that hour or two to recharge by myself instead of talking shop, or even socially, with coworkers.

      1. zora*

        I agree with getting a rolly suitcase. And if you don’t have the $$ to buy one, ask around for one you can borrow. I would totally lend you mine if you were my friend. It will look better and be much easier to deal with than a hiking backpack.

        1. Incantanto*

          I’ll get luggage searching this weekend then. I can afford it but I’m just so used to the convenience of backpacks.

    5. Struck By Lightning*

      I agree with everything already said regarding getting a real carry-on type suitcase, bringing things for layers, business cards, etc.

      Depending on what your company’s reimbursement/travel voucher policies are, I would strongly recommend adding some type of re-sealable envelope or pouch for your receipts. There is nothing worse than trying to figure out how to get a duplicate receipt that was somehow lost after the fact! (Not sure if this is true in private industry; in government your life will become hell for the foreseeable future if you manage to lose that $3 parking receipt that was put on your government charge card!)

      1. Incantanto*

        I don’t have a card yet. Or actually business cards: probably won’t need them as junior on client meeting rather than a conference. What level do companies usually provide them.

        Yeah, receipts make sense. Hopefully won’t need too many. Hoping for a chance to escape and explore stockholm by myself but I don’t think we have time.
        Suitcase it is then. Probably should have one but hiking bags are so good. Shows I am still at the hostel life stage :D

        1. zora*

          We automatically provide business cards to everyone starting at entry-level. Even as a junior staffer it’s possible someone might ask you for your card for some reason. If your company doesn’t normally give them to junior level, then I guess it’s no big deal, but I would ask if you haven’t already just to be sure. It does make you look more mature and professional if you can offer a card if someone asks.

        2. SL #2*

          We get business cards for all employees (I’m the one who orders them!) but I’ve honestly maybe used like 10 in my box of 250 over the last year.

    6. Grad Student*

      I agree a suitcase probably looks better depending on your field, but oh man hiking backpacks are the best for travel! So much easier to carry than pretty much anything else (as that’s what they’re designed for…), and then you don’t have to worry about dropping off your luggage while you go sightseeing or whatever.

      1. Incantanto*

        I know, right? Mine can be heavily packed and be hold luggage or lightly packed and be cabin bags, is easy to carry around, doesn’t have shit wheels that break.

        Unfortunately my field, whilst not hugely stuffy is probably not relaxed enough.

      2. Grumpy*

        Backpacks seem to be more common than rolley bags now (informal observation, stuck for many hours in airports) but rolley bags are still more professional. Sorry. I would also lend you mine.
        I use an envelope to stuff receipts in, and then write on the outside the amounts of tips and the like. I’ve also used TSA liquid bags for this.
        Earplugs can be a godsend for noisy hotels or flights. I carry a small blanket for planes and hotels (I like it when I watch tv in the rooms), but that’s me.
        Make sure you don’t set off the prescreen alarms or cause security delays in front if your coworkers (they’ll never forget) and be respectful if you do.
        Having a half-respectable looking “comfy outfit” can be useful in case you wander off to the ice machine and bump into a coworker.
        That’s all I’ve got. I’m sort of jealous, sounds like a great place to visit.

    7. SebbyGrrl*

      As appropriate to the situation:

      Go online and do a bit of research before departure. Know the hotel, is your favorite coffee available? What’s near by? Is it Ubers or cabs or public transport or?

      If easy get money exchanged before you travel. I always respect the person who is ready to tip or otherwise has the correct money handy when no one else does, also avoids the work of trying to do it there (EVEN IF EVERYTHING WILL BE ON CREDIT CARDS).

      Get a city map in advance.

      Know some local language and terms, hello, thank you, please, your’e welcome, where is the bathroom…

      :) Watch some great Scandi Murder dramas on Netflix! the original Swedish Wallender, (haha Fortitude), Annkia Benzingten, Dept. Q

    8. Iain*

      Sweden is a big place. Are you going to Kiruna or Malmö? Are you coming from another part of Sweden, or from Florida.

      Mid country it can be negative teens cold. It’s a dry cold though, so or does not feel bad out of the wind.

      Sweden is shockingly casual, so nice jeans ate probably more useful than a suit.

  40. Girasol*

    I’m a candidate for a six-year capital campaign director role at a nonporofit. I’m also planning to get pregnant and take maternity leave within the next two years.

    Is there an expectation with multi year campaign roles that employees won’t take leaves of this type, since they can theoretically be planned more than a medical crisis?

    1. Lil Fidget*

      No! Repeat after Sheryl Sandberg: Don’t leave before you leave. Not to wish you ill, but it could take you a lot longer than you thought to get pregnant and you will have cheated yourself out of what could have been a great role.

    2. always in email jail*

      That is absolutely not an expectation, people know that people get pregnant and that life events happen within a 6 year time span. You could just as easily be taking FMLA for an ill parent, etc. A lot of life can happen in 6 years.
      And yes, planning is one thing, but pregnancy doesn’t usually follow the plan. I got pregnant with my first while on the pill, so thought I could “plan” my second and leaned out a bit while trying. I regret it, because it took a year to get pregnant, and of course I had leaned back in in a big way by the time I got the positive. Just go on as normal and if it happens, it happens, and they’ll adapt.

    3. zora*

      Nope!! Especially at the higher level. As the campaign director, it would totally be reasonable that you would create the plan at the beginning, and if/when your maternity leave comes up, you would delegate parts of the plan to people to fill in while you are out. But everyone is still following your plan.

      I guess the exception would be if it’s a super tiny nonprofit where you are literally the only paid employee. But even in that case, I was hired as an interim program manager for 6 months for my friend when she went on maternity leave in a situation like that. So, it’s still possible to come up with a coverage plan. I would agree, don’t leave before you leave, and go for it!

    4. Bluebell*

      A three month maternity leave is nothing in the overall six year campaign. As someone who has been part of 3 very different multi year campaigns, I say go for it. If you get the position just plan very well and maybe keep you eye out for potential short term development consultants who might step in when your maternity leave happens. good luck!

  41. Tableau Wizard*

    There’s a chance that my husband gets a job that moves us back to my home metro area. I’m super excited but I’m trying to not get my hopes up.

    My question is this: I think that my role could be one that is remote. It’s fairly uncommon for our organization though not unheard of and there’s actually a member of my small team who moved across the country and is now remote. I’m wondering how could I approach my bosses and make my case for why I could do my job remotely. Anyone had success doing this? or totally failed at it?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Not very helpful, but I know other open threads have talked about this a little. Perhaps if you use the site search?

  42. Nearly a Fed*

    Well, I finally received the final offer from HR for my position. They met me about halfway on salary – moving me up to a step 4 instead of the requested step 7 (roughly 6% less than what I’m currently making). I was trying to compare my current salary to the lower COL schedule to justify the step, but they compared my current to the position locality COL schedule, which is higher (I’ll be hired as a local employee and then transferred to be a remote employee so that my current city will be my permanent duty station after three months). So, the 6% difference in salary is really the difference in COL adjustment between my official office locality and the locality where I live. They gave me three years of creditable service toward leave, instead of the requested nine, which bumps me up to 20 days/yr plus federal holidays (10) and sick leave (10). I’ll move up to the next level after 12 years instead of 15.

    All in all, I’m just relieved to finally get hired into a fed spot, and I think it’s about the best I could have hoped for. It’s not unusual for contractors to take a cut when they transition over, so this is not too bad. Anyway, I just wanted to provide this forum some information on the (a?) federal hiring process from an applicant’s point of view – I think a lot of folks assume you can’t negotiate anything, but there is a little wiggle room.

    1. MissMaple*

      Thanks for all the information, I think it’s definitely helpful for people making the transition. I actually got a slight raise when I first became a fed, but now am back as a contractor. It will be interesting to see what happens if I ever end up going back to being a civil servant.

      1. Nearly a Fed*

        Yeah, another contractor that I manage went through the hiring process at the same time. He ended up with a slight raise too because the step 1 salary for the grade level he applied for was higher than his currently salary, so, that definitely worked out for him. But I’ve also heard of people taking $10-20K/yr decreases.

  43. KatieKate*

    uuuhhhggghhhhhhh

    Do to low turn out, an event that I’ve been planning is probably going to be cancelled. The timing right after the holidays just didn’t work for enough people. I am almost relieved (it was going to be a lot of work for very little reward), but I can’t show it because my boss it pretty upset. It’s just not good all around here today. Hope y’alls days are going better!

    1. WellRed*

      But, you could stem some if the $ hit by cancelling rather than pushing forward? I wish my company would pull the plug when this happens but hubris.

  44. Super Anon*

    So I have been undergoing infertility treatments. It sucks but it is what it is. At the same time I’m getting to the point where I’m pretty desperate to find another job, as the atmosphere where I work now is steadily becoming more toxic. In my field, it can take months (even years) to find a position, so i want to start looking now. Can anyone share stories of changing jobs when pregnant? Or share what to red flags to look out for in this situation? I am concerned about not qualifying for FLMA, etc., but at the same time as I can’t really control when or even if I get pregnant, and I’m afraid of putting my life on hold for another few years while I finish up my current set of treatments (which will be my last for the time being).

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Agree, don’t put your life on hold while you wait, it only makes you feel worse about the situation. Just be careful of the insurance implications.

    3. always in email jail*

      Don’t put your life on hold, start looking.
      Plus, with the way the universe works, you’ll probably get pregnant right when you switch jobs :) :) (sorry, joking from previous experience).
      If you aren’t pregnant when you get a new job, don’t bring it up until you start the job. If you find yourself pregnant, don’t disclose until they’ve given you an offer. Some places will let you do “leave without pay” even if you don’t qualify for FMLA (you just have to be comfortable with verbal assurance that they aren’t going to replace you) and some will only give you Short Term Disability. I’ve seen it work both ways for people.

      1. Super Anon*

        I would definitely need leave. My biggest concern is avoiding employers/potential bosses who would be pissed at me wanting 12 weeks off. And I’m not sure how to identify those red flags.

        1. Natalie*

          Worry about that when you’re a bit closer to an offer. You’re putting a couple of carts before your horses here. :)

          1. Super Anon*

            As I apply for things it’s good to know to look out for, and I will have limited options as I’m in a niche area. I’ve been on this journey for 7 years, so I’m very aware of how dim my prognosis is, and yet I’m the breadwinner and so I can’t afford to go without a paycheck and/or make a poor decision foe next employer. So, however, dim my chances are, I need to be aware of what to look for as I apply and interview.

            1. Natalie*

              I don’t think there are tons of red flags apparent before an interview, though, so you at least have to get to that point, and decide you want the job, and get offered the job, and have it happen at a bad time with regard to your fertility treatments. That’s just a lot of variables to try and eliminate now.

    4. Machelle*

      I recently got a new job and 2 days after I started I found out that I was 7 weeks pregnant and we had been trying for awhile. I had actually got to the point that I was just going to work on my career and not even worry about it for awhile. So when we found out I was excited and nervous just because I didn’t know how to tell my boss after 6 interviews, waiting about a month to start that hey I was pregnant. So when I told him I told him that exactly that I love this job and that this will not effect my work but that I’m pregnant. I also told him I was scared to tell him because I had just started. He said that was amazing and that this changes nothing about your job. The company i work for is very family oriented. So don’t let looking for a job stop you. I wish you luck on your treatments and hope everything works out! oh and the FMLA: each company has different plans my company offers 70% pay the first 6 weeks as long as you have worked there for certain period which here is 6 monthsand then short term after that. They will hold your job for a certain period as well. Each company is diffrent

    5. Mrs Kate*

      Have you looked into purchasing your own short term disability plan prior to getting pregnant? Whether it’s worth it may depend on your health and income and spousal support but FYI.

  45. No Longer Freaking Out*

    I commented in the open thread a couple of weeks ago about an abusive former supervisor who might be applying for an open position in my current organization. I took some of the suggestions the commenters here gave me and I called my HR Rep. I told her I couldn’t know for certain whether Dolores would apply for this job, but I wanted HR to have some background information just in case. I gave the broad strokes of this woman’s bad behavior as a manager, and it didn’t take long at all for HR to reach the appropriate level of horrified. I feel pretty confident now that even if Dolores does apply, I’m safe from having to report to her again.

    Thanks to everyone who replied and helped me get my head into the right place.

    One suggestion I have for anyone who might have to have a conversation like this in the future: Write it out ahead of time. I didn’t read my statement verbatim from what I had written, but the fact that I wrote it down and edited and organized my thoughts made me a lot more confident right out of the gate.

    1. Samata*

      I remember your post and am glad you decided to go ahead and talk to HR…and even happier that HR listened to you.

      Writing out thoughts is a good reminder. I need to do that more before any hard conversations.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      I remember this. Glad HR listened to you!
      I’ve been dreading accidentally applying to something where a couple of previously shitty bosses might be. Ugh, please no.

  46. Jeannie Nitro*

    I’m not sure if this is a question or just venting, since it’s pretty minor and I’m pretty sure the answer is “none of my business” BUT

    The Project Manager for our team [PM] sits downstairs and will often call our phones to ask us about progress rather than walk upstairs. This in and of itself is fine, but this running joke has started where the PM, instead of calling the dude who sits next to me [Ned] , will call the woman who sits next to him [Kelsey]. When she sees it’s PM calling, Kelsey will answer her phone with “Hi, this is Ned’s office!”, talk to PM for a bit, and then transfer the call to Ned’s phone.

    Some relevant information: everyone at my company is pretty young, and Ned and Kelsey are both 23-24ish. PM, Kelsey, and Ned have a fun, friendly relationship, so the whole thing is just basically an ongoing joke, especially because we have table-like desks in an open office, so Kelsey is transferring the call to a phone literally a meter away from her at the same table. Kelsey is not on our team, so there is no situation in which PM would call Ned & have him transfer to Kelsey in return, so it’s always one-sided.

    What bugs me is I feel like this interaction plays into the stereotype of women always ending up as somebody’s secretary, whether that’s part of their job description or not. Kelsey taught herself how to use the phone system just to facilitate this joke, as we don’t get very many calls and nobody else knows how to transfer calls. She even transferred the call to Ned’s cell phone when he was working from home one time. Ned is nice enough, but generally sort of cheerfully clueless, and seems like the kind of guy who rolls through life never noticing or thinking about things like emotional labor or gender disparities or stuff like that, and I don’t really like encouraging him to think of women as helpful people who volunteer to be his secretary, even as a joke.

    Is there any way to go about bringing this up? I don’t really want to disrupt their fun or be a wet blanket or come off as the serious grouchy old feminist (I’m not old, but I’m one of the oldest on the team), and it’s not disruptive to my own personal work, but I feel like there should be a way to point out the dynamics of this? I don’t know, what do you guys think?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      If Kelsey is fine with it, and there’s no broader pattern, who cares? Not everything is a microaggression.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Agreed. This is not a hill to die on, especially since it’s not your hill at all, Jeannie.

    2. Lil Fidget*

      Nah, leave it – it’s not a good thing for you to spend your capital on. If it was something putting YOU in a secretary type role I’d cash my chits on that, but just something some other woman is doing that you think makes her look bad, nah. Not likely to be appreciated.

    3. Goya de la Mancha*

      Perception is so weird. My first thought about Kelsey was “good golly woman, mind your own business!”

    4. Victoria, Please*

      Oh, ick. You’re right that it’s none of your business as it’s not affecting your work. But I’m right there with you that it’s perpetuating a problem. Unfortunately not one that you can really do anything about at the moment.

      If Kelsey ever does decide to stop playing, you can be supportive then. Hopefully she’ll be laughing with some friends one evening and describe this, and someone will say “WTF, Kelsey, make Ned answer his own damn phone.”

    5. Emilitron*

      I can see why Kelsey’s script bothers you, but my real question is, why the heck is PM calling Kelsey if K is not on their team? You say they talk for a few minutes, so sounds like they actually need to talk with K, and they do that, and it’s just that Ned is always next on the list. The real solution here is for PM to actually call Ned if they need to talk with him. In any case I wouldn’t fault Kelsey for making a joke out of it – even though I agree that K is setting herself up to sound like an underling so the joke’s on her, she’s not the one who needs to change behavior. (and maybe she actually started this as a backhanded way to suggesting that PM needs to actually call Ned instead of her, except that it totally went over PM’s head?)

      In my mind, the two possible approaches would be
      1. ask PM if they realize they’re treating K badly by not calling Ned directly
      2. ask Kelsey if she started the whole schtick as a sarcastic jab to get PM to stop – “because it sure would annoy the heck out of me if PM were asking me to answer Ned’s phone”. i.e. you’re giving her your perspective, as well as your permission to be annoyed by it, but not requiring that she see it the same way.

      But agreeing with other replies, it’s not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, and it’s not really your business, so if it were me I’d just keep my mouth shut unless the opportunity to say something comes up. (but worthwhile to figure out what that opportunity would look like and what you’d say)

      1. Jeannie Nitro*

        I don’t really know how it started tbh. You’re right that the issue would solve itself if PM just called Ned in the first place, but she (PM) is friends with Kelsey too – whenever she does come upstairs instead of calling, she’ll sit and chat with both Kelsey and Ned. So it seems like she’s using calling Kelsey first in order to have a friendly chat with her before getting down to business with Ned, like she would if she had just walked upstairs? I don’t know, the whole thing is kind of silly to me, and I know it’s basically just an inside joke between the three of them, but it rubs me the wrong way is all.

        I have joked that when PM needs to talk to me she should call Ned’s phone so he can transfer it to me . . . but since he hasn’t learned how to transfer stuff, that’s about as far as it went.

  47. Interim ED problems*

    I’m the interim ED at a nonprofit with 15 staff members. When I first got the job a few months ago, I noticed there were some big red operational flags: employees coming to work whenever they felt like it and scrolling through facebook all day, not taking any accountability for achieving their strategic goals or aligning their day to day work with our strategic plan.

    When I brought these concerns to the board with my recommendation to tighten operations and let go of 3 severely under-performing employees, they encouraged that I tighten operations but insisted that I work with the under-performing employees on performance improvement plans instead of terminating them, with the understanding that once a permanent ED was hired, she could make a decision based on their progress on their PIP.

    Now a month later, we’re hemorrhaging quality employees and board members. 2 of the board members with the closest ties to the organization have left as well as our high funtioning office manager who left for a better title/wages/job. All that’s left are employees who don’t have the motivation or initiative to work on our strategic plan and mission and 3 board members who are checked out. Employees are defensive and some are outright hostile to aligning their performance to measurable goals and objectives.

    I have tried to hire new employees, but the hiring market for our type of nonprofit is tough in our city. There are lots of progressive organizations that compete with us for quality workers and our wages are low, despite great benefits. Furthermore the ED search was scrapped and stalled, and will resume in a month. I don’t know if I can last that long. Can this nonprofit be turned around?

    1. Super Anon*

      From my perspective, not without a major restructuring. Board members shouldn’t have any say on staffing decisions. It doesn’t matter if you are the interim ED or not. Salaries and staffing are and should the purview of the ED and the relevant supervisory staff, not the role of the board.

      To me it sounds like you would be better off by firing some people and then increasing salaries so that you can more effectively compete with the other nonprofits in your area. I know many nonprofits claim to have great benefits, I know I worked for a nonprofit who argued that the benefits made up for the lower salaries, but what they didn’t realize is that their “great benefits package” was the industry standard.

      1. Super Anon*

        I did want to add that it sounds like the board have really made it impossible for you to do your job in any meaningful way. And it will make it that much more challenging to find someone permanent to take on that role. Any chance you’ll want the role permanently?

        1. Interim ED problems*

          I am considering applying for the role.
          Clarification: I asked the board for their recommendation on terminating under-performing employees and they gave me one. I think their insistence on a PIP was to justify termination. Maybe it was my mistake for not setting a deadline on the PIPs?

          The suggestion to terminate and use the savings to increase salaries is a good one, thank you.

          1. Super Anon*

            A deadline is a must with a PIP. I think for long-term employees (especially in poorly functioning non-profits) a PIP with no deadline wouldn’t be taken seriously.

            Although honestly, once you fire one person people start to get that you are serious.

          2. SilverRadicand*

            Deadlines are definitely important and useful, but not necessary to firing. When you put someone on a PIP, the expectation is that there should be significant improvement quick (though it might take a bit to get fully get to the PIP-set level of performance). If it’s been a month and the employees on PIP haven’t even made progress, I’d say go ahead and terminate. As Super Anon says, the PIP’s might not be getting taken seriously, but I’ll bet after the first employee gets fired the rest of the employees will take notice.
            At a minimum, I would do a follow-up on the PIPs letting the employees know that the are not on track to meet their performance goals set by the PIP and that if they don’t improve by X date, termination WILL happen.

            Take all this with a grain of salt though. I don’t work at a non-profit or deal with boards.

    2. Lil Fidget*

      Oh dear, it sounds like it’s your role that needs to be turned around! They can’t keep you on as an ED without giving you the authority of the ED – that sounds like setting you up to fail. I hope you’re also job searching!

    3. I'm Not Phyllis*

      The board shouldn’t have this kind of control over staffing … have they asked for this since you’re in an interim role? Or is this the norm for them? Since they have given you this feedback, I think you have to follow their request, but you could provide them with a follow-up and add your concerns.
      I think it can be turned around … but it depends on the leadership – both the ED and the Board. The Board needs to allow the ED to manage (that’s what the ED is there for!). If they’re constantly overstepping into operations it can be difficult … the ED has to take a strong stand but it can still be done.

      1. Interim ED problems*

        I gave the wrong impression. I asked the board for a recommendation and they gave me one, but it’s on me to hire and fire.

        At this point the board is made up of rubber stampers. They would agree with anything I put in front of them, but I don’t know how to salvage this.

        1. AcademiaNut*

          I would look for a new job.

          You’ve lost all your high quality employees and an excellent office manager, the employees you’re left with have attitude and competence issues, and you are having trouble hiring new employees due to a combination of low pay, better opportunities at other jobs, and the fact that your non-profit is in a state of leaderless chaos.

          At this point, changing things is going to either be a multi-year long, painful process where you have to fight for every bit of progress, or a case of burning things down to the ground, re-forming the non-profit from scratch, and starting over with a fresh slate (all new employees, higher salaries, possibly a new board, and maybe even a new name).

  48. Annie Moose*

    I need some advice on how to have a better attitude about people that you dislike for no good reason.

    So, I have a coworker, Wakeen, who I just don’t like that much. The main issue, I think, is that he holds particular political/social/etc. views that I used to hold, but no longer do. Normally, I think I’m pretty OK with handling people with differing views from me, but it’s… different when the views in question are ones that you yourself used to hold. I know this is such a pretentious thing to say, but a part of me is like, “You’ve grown beyond such ideas, which means you’re better/more mature/more right/whatever.” Intellectually I know I’m not better than Wakeen. I know I’m not smarter than him. I’m not even necessarily more right than him. I just happen to have gone through some experiences that radically reshaped my thinking on certain topics.

    But no matter how much I tell myself this, I can’t stop that awful little voice in the back of my head that tells me these things anyway. I don’t think it’s come out in our interactions, I’ve worked very hard to be friendly and joke with him the same as we all do on my team, but any time he speaks up (not just on social topics, but even technical work-related ones!) I find myself inclined to dismiss his ideas out of hand and come up with reasons to avoid talking about anything in-depth with him.

    Does anyone have strategies on how to better handle this?? It’s really bothering me that I can’t just let it go.

    (for the record, I’m not talking about racism/sexism/etc., it’s much lower stakes stuff than that. Wakeen isn’t a bad person, he just holds views that I now believe to be flawed/missing the bigger picture/etc. Think, like, differences of opinion on economic systems and religious views)

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Can you focus on identifying things you like about Wakeen? Maybe try to find three things every day that you appreciate or respect or admire, even if it’s like, those are nice shoes.

      1. N.J.*

        I’m going to piggyback off of your advice. I worked at a place for a little over a year with several people with whom I differed politically, personality wise and even morally in some cases. It took a relentless focus on positivity to make it through the day pleasantly with these folks. It is draining, but it can be done. For example, for one particularly challenging coworker, I focused on the fact that he was the most reliable to be paired with on a shift (he didn’t shirk job duties and honestly tried to do a good job) and was very good at motivating lower level employees. With many I focused on the things we had in common socially —hobbies, talking about our families, vacation plans etc. With some, you can focus on picking their brains about their area of expertise, work based or personal hobby based, and remind yourself to appreciate their level of mastery, their knowledge base and any willingness to help they may have. We have all had some sort of activity or life situation that we have needed to force ourselves to warm up to, at least to some degree. For some of the frustrations, Alison’s advice on this blog for more outrageous work environments can be useful in this context—pretend you are an anthropologist observing an alien culture. Find amusement in the idiosyncrasies and foibles.

        To get very real here for a moment, the strategies I talked about above kept me reasonably sane and pleasant to interact with in a workplace with a boss who said people who aren’t Christians and don’t like prayer should leave the U.S., a direct coworker who constantly verbally sexually harassed me and others, and at an organization that was dedicated to a political cause which I actually generally disapprove of, though not fully. I worked there because I needed the money, but I’m relatively confident that to this day the assholes I worked with thought I liked them reasonably well and was neutral on the political issue and appreciated their passion, intelligence and expertise. You can’t do it forever, but if your coworker isn’t a complete monster you’d be surprised what you can tolerate and what you can learn to appreciate.

    2. Temperance*

      I don’t think you have to have in-depth political conversations or religious conversations with colleagues. Are his ideas otherwise good?

      There are many people that I disagree with and like otherwise. They all have actually thought about their positions, though, and can explain why they believe X or Y. People who are not intelligent-seeming and don’t do any research, and just parrot what they’ve heard are a pet peeve of mine, but I can’t imagine why a colleague would feel the need to talk about religion and politics at work.

      1. Annie Moose*

        Well, he doesn’t usually talk in-depth about this stuff, really. But like anybody, sometimes his personal views do come up in his approach to certain topics and comments he makes. (for example, mentioning books he happens to be reading) That’s why it’s a weird place for me to be. Wakeen isn’t actually doing anything wrong–the wrong is on me for getting irrationally annoyed with his personal views.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Did you know it’s really REALLY common and normal to feel like this about views or habits you’ve moved past. It’s not horrendously unreasonable of you – just part of being human.

      I remember asking my supervisor (the reflective/clinical kind not my line manager) what to do about a colleague whose conversations were driving me crackers. His answer: sometimes in life, when you are irritated by someone at work even though you know you need to get along with them, it really just helps to imagine tearing their head off.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Yes, the strongest zealots are people who once had the habit and kicked it. The people I know who have lost a lot of weight are the worst fat-shamers, people who used to smoke are rabidly anti-smoking, and I noted that the lady who was so opposed to porn on yesterday’s thread was someone who used to enjoy it but quit it. I notice it myself when I’m trying to cut back on something (junk food, alcohol), I have to kind of mentally demonize it in order to be successful. I think when you get into that mindset it’s harder to be moderate even once the crisis is past.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Privately, wish him well. Do this daily perhaps several times a day. The idea is to wear down the old thought pattern of how big a jerk he is. In order to get rid of negative thoughts they need to be replaced with something else. So wish him well when you catch yourself with a negative thought. If you are having a really bad time of it go through and wish his family well, wish his neighbors well, wish his kindergarten teacher well. Keep going, fill up that brain space with well wishes.

      Many times, after a while of wishing someone well, we can find it a bit harder to be so critical of them. This is not an instant solution, it will take time.

  49. Rilara*

    Is it odd to apply to internships in 2 different cities at the same company? I’m a grad student applying to summer internships, and I’ve done it in the past, but didn’t think to ask if this is considered acceptable until now!

    The internships in each city are identical, they just happen to be in different offices of the company. It’s for engineering as well if the field matters. I know that applying for multiple completely different positions in one company looks odd, but I’m not sure if that standard applies for student internships. Thanks in advance!

    2. CAN_NewGrad*

      Not the same field (accounting), but it’s pretty standard to do this because a lot of people apply to their hometown location as well as the location they go to school in since they’re both equally feasible. In fact, most firms allow you to do it in one application since it’s so common.

    1. Victoria, Please*

      I get hummingbirds at my office window. Your view definitely beats mine though!

      I love that no two days are quite the same. Never bored.

      1. zora*

        I got to watch a hummingbird building a nest in the tree outside my office window at a previous job. It was definitely the (only good) best thing about that job.

        At my current job I love that my boss is smart and supportive and treats us all like adults and says thank you to me a lot. And I love the perks of “agency life” like the occasional free booze and nice meals. Had very little of those in the nonprofit world, so I’m enjoying them while I have them.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        God, you’re so lucky. On the third floor at Exjob, we got huge arachnids that spun these giant cocoon nests right up against the window, where the window cleaners couldn’t really reach. As in, you could see inside them. It was so groooooooooooooss!

    2. Amber Rose*

      My coworkers. They’re just the greatest people on the planet. One day when I leave, I will probably actually cry.

    3. Cookie D'oh*

      Flexibility. I work 8-5ish, but it’s not a big deal if I need to leave early or come in late. I can take a long lunch if I need to run errands. I can work from home as needed.

      The company switched over to unlimited vacation time a couple years ago. People are allowed to take vacation without feeling guilty.

      There’s definitely some annoyances about the day to day work, but it’s not enough for me too look elsewhere. I’ve been here 17 years and it would be an adjustment to work in a more rigid environment.

    7. Laura*

      Never the same day, and I love being part of people’s special moments… helping find the right teapot for the occasion.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      We are first in line off the steam heat system. The office is at least 90 degrees on these cold days. It’s almost as good as a wood stove. Almost.

    9. Windchime*

      First of all, the people. I have a great manager who is kind and friendly, but also runs a tight ship and has clear expectations. My teammates are mature, reasonable people who are skilled at their jobs and really productive. We walk to Starbucks together and it’s just really congenial.

      Also, the building. Years ago, it was my dream to work in a big downtown building and now I am. We are surrounded by large windows and have a view out to a busy, pretty street. Right now, the trees are all filled with white lights for the holidays and it’s so pretty. We can often hear seagulls making their seagull noise and are just a few blocks from the waterfront.

  51. stitchinthyme*

    TL;DR: Good idea or bad idea to sell your boss a car?

    So I happened to be chatting with my boss about cars, and mentioned that my husband has been wanting to get rid of my 1999 Honda CR-V and get an all-electric, while I’ve been resisting (the CR-V is paid for, runs fine, has relatively low mileage for a car that age, and hardly ever gets used since we mostly carpool to work in our other car). My boss said his son will be driving in a few months and he expressed interest in possibly buying it. He took it for a test drive and I told him he’s more than welcome to take it overnight, get it checked over by a mechanic, whatever. (Meanwhile, my husband is ecstatic at this news, although I did tell him there was no guarantee, and wants to go start test-driving electrics.)

    My coworker says it’s a bad idea to sell a car to a boss; I mentioned this to Boss and he said, “Oh, I realize that at this age and this price [the blue-book value], it will be as-is, and I expect it to need some work.” So I don’t think there will be a problem, especially if we get it looked at first so there are no surprises.

    Is my coworker right? Should I back away from this, or take an easy opportunity to get an old car off my hands for more than I could likely trade it in for?

    1. Snark*

      So, I sold a car to a coworker a few years ago – seemed like a reasonable, pleasant fellow, and paid me a fair price for an older car. Fast forward six months, and he’s sending me multiparagraph emails demanding that I cover half the cost of replacing the transmission, which his daughter had trashed in some way he was evasive about. Your mileage may vary, but I generally try not to get into financial transactions totaling more that the cost of a few lattes with coworkers.

    2. Amber Rose*

      I’d say it’s fine as long as boss isn’t paying it off in installments. Power imbalances would make chasing down unpaid money really miserable for you. But if you get paid up front and the paperwork is in order, I don’t see a problem with it.

      1. stitchinthyme*

        I’d assume he’d just pay me all at once. While I have no idea how much he makes, I’m assuming it’s more than I do since he’s my boss, and I could afford to pay the blue-book value in one lump sum.

    3. AndersonDarling*

      It comes down to the individual. If your boss is level headed and you believe they won’t come back to you with issues, then it should be OK. It would be different if you were selling an old clunker that will need repair which would have the potential of buyer remorse, but this is a CRV and you said it has been reliable. And it will be the kid driving it, not the boss.
      We’ve had car sales in my office that came down the line, CEO sold to staff, and up the line from staff to managers. So far no issues.

      1. stitchinthyme*

        Yeah, I don’t think my boss is the type to do what Amber Rose talks about in her response above. He seems very well aware that due to the age of the car and the fact that it will be a new driver operating it (and it’s a stick, so even more room for error there!), stuff might break. And he specifically mentioned the phrase “as is” when we were talking about it.

    4. always in email jail*

      I absolutely would not do this. Too much potential for mixing personal business and business business

    5. Dawn*

      Find a general vehicle sale contract, with wording that states “as-is”, and you sign it at the time of payment. Not a big deal if your boss is usually a sane person.

        1. Epsilon Delta*

          YES always! I sold my car to someone (not a coworker or friend) and they got a parking ticket before they registered it in their name. So the ticket came to me. I was able to go to the police station with the bill of sale and they happily destroyed the parking ticket with my name and reprinted it with his name and address. Seriously always do the bill of sale.

    6. This Daydreamer*

      It probably will be okay, but if it goes bad it can go really bad. Since he’s already test driven the car I’m leaning towards going for it, since letting him drive it pretty much tells him he can buy it, but watch out for any bad signs.

    7. Struck By Lightning*

      Incredibly, incredibly bad idea.

      Even assuming nothing goes wrong with the car after you sell it and both of you are perfectly happy with the deal forever and ever…you STILL open yourselves up for perceived favoritism down the line. “Oh, boss let Stitchinthyme work from home because she gave him such a good deal on that car last year” “Oh, Stitchinthyme always gets the good projects because she gave boss a good deal, not because she does better work”. It doesn’t matter if it’s true, what matters is the perception.

      Or the flip side, the car needs expensive repairs, boss doesn’t blame you but you feel guilty so you don’t feel like you can say no when your boss asks you to come in on your day off, or take a less desirable schedule, or whatever.

      But honestly, used cars are a nightmare to sell to someone you know in general…something almost ALWAYS goes wrong with them because cars need to be repaired. Case in point, I bought my parents’ old civic which had perfect maintenance and all highway mileage…2 months later it needed $2k in repairs. My parents are wonderful and paid for the repairs, but do you really want to have that situation with your boss?

    8. The Ginger Ginger*

      If you go for it, I’d get a super basic sales-y contract (can you tell I’m not a lawyer?) in place that absolves you of any future responsibility for repair or anything, and stating that it’s being sold for blue book price. That way there’s no question of anything looping back to you, and if some coworker later tries to play the favoritism card for the “good deal” you gave him, you can give the perfectly reasonable response that you didn’t set the price, blue book did.

    9. Blue Eagle*

      Something similar happened with a co-worker and it was a nightmare. Sometimes cars have mechanical problems that don’t show themselves to the seller, but if it happens within a year or two the buyer can feel like they were taken. Not your fault, of course, but if it is your boss, then you get the blowback. My recommendation is “don’t sell a used car to your boss”.

    10. Former Retail Manager*

      BAD IDEA!! DON’T DO IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!! Sorry…but I feel strongly. :)

      There’s is really no upside to this transaction (other than the obvious cash from the sale) and many potential downsides. Even if this isn’t your career, and maybe just a part-time job, it isn’t worth it. People seem to have some very wildly unrealistic expectations regarding used vehicles purchased from people they know. Do a private party sale using Cars.com, Offer Up, 5 miles, or one of the many other reliable apps out there. I assure you, you’ll find a buyer for a 99 CRV, probably relatively quickly.

    11. Not So NewReader*

      My rule of thumb on many things is “If I have to ask about it, then probably I should not do it.” I have not seen this go well. I’d vote no on this one.

    12. Hildegard Vonbingen*

      I would not do it. When it comes to financial transactions, I look at it in terms of risks vs. rewards. If you can sell the car to somebody else at the same price, you’re home free (if you have a good sales contract). There’s no risk, because your contract is bullet-proof and if you sell to someone unreasonable, you can shut them down fast with no repercussions.

      Same scenario, but with boss or co-worker. Same bullet-proof contract. But the buyer becomes unreasonable. You’re stuck dealing with their nonsense, and you could face career repercussions (yes, even if your boss/co-worker buyer is being totally unreasonable and doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on). So there’s a downside risk.

      Why take that risk, assuming you can get just as good a price from somebody else you can totally walk away from if they become unreasonable? Like I said – I wouldn’t do it.

  52. Amber Rose*

    So, my province has an updated Employment Standards Code, with some very exciting and much needed changes. Like, you don’t have to be employed for a year to qualify for maternity leave, just until you’re out of the 90 day probation. You also get stat pay even if you’ve worked less than 30 days. I learned this by weird coincidence (I was actually looking up fatality reports). So I spent most of yesterday frantically updating documents, since I guess nobody else around here knew about it either, which is a problem for payroll. I guess it’s good I’m here?

    Friday question: I know you’re supposed to keep negativity down and not complain about work at work, but can I complain about the building? Because it took us months to get the front steps fixed last year and they’re already crumbling apart, and one of the back doors is so horribly busted the door guy just shrugged and said it was unfixable. It’s very frustrating, and it’s hard to keep that out of my voice when I’m warning people not to fall on the broken stairs, or open the door. Upper management is fed up too, but it’s hard to get fixes through the condo board for the building.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      The advice against complaining is about fruitless, repeated complaints when you’re not proactively addressing the problem. Those sound like legitimate issues to bring up and address!

      1. Amber Rose*

        The problem is, I can’t address them. The door won’t be fixed, and the stairs might be fixed in August if we’re lucky. And will probably fall apart next winter. :/

    2. I'm Not Phyllis*

      I think a lot of the employers here are surprised by the changes to the ESA (though I’m not sure how? It’s been in the media for months!).

      I think you should definitely complain about issues like this – obviously only to the right people and not to the visitors you’re warning not to fall down the stairs. These are safety issues.

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      Is there a way to play on legality when requesting the repairs from the condo board? That repair sounds like basic/safety-related issues that should be covered in any half way decent rental contract. Maybe a letter from a lawyer would get things a-movin’?

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        As in, steps that would cause an injury and a door that can’t open (FIRE HAZARD, anyone?) are just asking for a lawsuit if something goes wrong.

        1. Amber Rose*

          Well. We’re in one big, mostly open building. There are a total of ten doors, five front and five back. Technically, nobody needs to use the two that are risky. There’s another door like, six feet away.

          Also we’re liable for part of the repairs because we own the building. Condo agreements for businesses are tricky.

          Anyway. It sounds like upper management may just be looking at ditching the place and moving us somewhere better. But either way, change will take a long time.

          1. WellRed*

            Technically no one needs to use those doors until there’s a big, smoky confusing fire or something. Your company kinda sucks. Bldg mgt sucks more.

  53. Anom*

    Career question of the week: is thinking of becoming a full time private tutor. Of course, I do not have a degree in education, a teaching certificate or formal teaching experience. So it’s a career track that will take at least 5 years – what with going back to school, and getting experience, and then building up a business. Does anyone have experience as a professional tutor or resources for researching it?

    1. bibliovore*

      Most private tutors that I know do it as part time work after their regular day job as a teacher. The one’s who are doing it as their main gig are usually recently retired after years of classroom experience.

      1. Anom*

        I’m still researching. I was thinking a combination of math, English and ESL for younger grades and SAT prep. But it depends on the market. That’s what I’m trying to research.

        1. Julianne*

          Keeping in mind that (a) these are my perceptions as an educator but not a tutor, and (b) the demand may be different where you are.

          My impression is that the greatest demand at the elementary level (say, 1st-6th grade, ages 6-12) is for specialized reading instruction, such as Wilson, Orton-Gillingham, or other rules-based reading programs. I have coworkers who tutor Wilson and OG and make $90+/hour. I would say the second-highest area of demand at this age level (really, probably the upper half of the range, maybe 4th-6th grades) is for tutors with specific training to support students (mostly in reading and math) with disabilities, ex. ADD/ADHD, specific learning disabilities, etc. Depending on the demographics of your local school districts, you may or may not find demand for ESL tutoring for kids; in my large, urban district there is no demand for this (because parents can’t pay for it), but neighboring suburban districts that educate the children of foreign faculty and students at the local Big Name universities might have a larger client base (because those families are more likely to be able to afford it).

          I’m pretty sure you can’t go wrong with SAT prep, though. I see lots of demand for it both in the urban area where I teach and live, as well as in the more affluent suburbs. I imagine it’s probably fairly similar nationwide. Depending on your current education and skills, you might not need more school to become a full-time (or mostly-full-time) SAT tutor, since SAT tutoring tends to focus more on the test itself, as opposed to the underlying academic skills. (So, teaching kids how to answer multiple choice questions about a reading passage effectively, as opposed to teaching them how to read.) When I see ads for SAT tutoring gigs, they usually want someone who scored well on the SAT him/herself, knows the test and test-taking strategies well, and has experience tutoring for the SAT, but not necessarily classroom teaching experience.

          Whether you can make a living off of tutoring alone is another question. I don’t know anyone who does it full-time, year-round, but I also live in a fairly expensive area, and most tutors I know can and prefer to make more money as teachers. Given that K-12 students aren’t available to be tutored for about 6 hours/day, 180 days/year, I’m not sure how one would fill a full-time work schedule for those 9-10 months of the year, but there may be opportunities you’ve thought of that I haven’t. I do have to agree with others’ sentiments that I’m not sure the investment in additional education is worth it, given what you may be able to earn as a tutor, but again, you may have insights about your opportunities that I don’t. If you lived where I live, I wouldn’t advise you to do it, however.

    3. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Former teacher here. I have looked at tutoring, but there is definitely not enough of a market here to keep me employed full time. The areas in the most demand are high school level or higher math & science, which are definitely not my forte. Are you sure you need to go back to school? If you have a math or science degree, you could probably just use that as your credential.

      1. Anom*

        I do not have a math or science degree, hence the need to go back to school. Have you looked into tutoring online?

    4. Former Retail Manager*

      Unless you have a trust fund or a wealthy partner, I wouldn’t rely on tutoring to pay your bills. And I certainly wouldn’t get education and training that takes 5 years to complete for the ability to make maybe $20k a year, gross, in my area (Southern US). No, just no.

  54. JustaTech*

    Tiny office organization suggestion!
    If you use binders with the slot on the spin to put a label, if you put a post-it flag (tape with a bit of colored plastic on the end) on the top end of the piece of paper you put down the spine, the paper will be much easier to remove later when you want to re-label the binder.

    I just learned this last week and it’s such an improvement over fishing out paper with forceps.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      At the risk of sounding like Microsoft Advice Guy above, does everyone know those spine labels are a lot easier to remove if the binder is wide open?

      2. Samata*

        WHAT?! How did I make it this long without ever knowing that.

        Like many above my go-to method is scissors and the f-word on repeat.

  55. Anom*

    Career question 2: anyone here an audiologist or speech language pathologist? I might be interested in that as a career too. I’d like to hear about what your work life is like. What do you on a daily basis? How much of your time is spent on different kinds of tasks (research, admin/record-keeping, direct patient interaction)? What kind of personality do you think would thrive in this role? What kinds of places can you work?

    1. Garland Not Andrews*

      My sister is an SLP and while I cannot answer all your questions, I do know the types of jobs she has held.

      She started out working in a nursing home/rehab hospital. She primarily worked with seniors and others who had lost speech due to illness (stroke, etc.). She worked with an early childhood development program, working with the 3 and under crowd. For that job, she actually went to the homes/daycares where the kids were. Most recently, she work for the public schools working with elementary school students.
      There are also private practices and medical groups. Lots of variety. Clients can be anywhere on the age spectrum.

    2. Windchime*

      Years ago, my youngest child had speech therapy after spending the first three years with an undiagnosed (but correctable) hearing problem. I think he was about 3 years old and he went for a year or so. The therapist had a home office and, as far as my son was concerned, we were just going to a nice lady’s house where he would get to play and talk for an hour every week. It did him a world of good. So I guess this answers the “what kind of places can you work?” question, because this woman did it in her home.

  56. Victoria, Please*

    People who work remotely or who telecommute regularly, what are best practices for making it work? For both you and your manager? Or if you are a manager of teleworkers, what do you do to make it good?

    This is purely for my curiosity, since my uni Does Not Allow Telecommuting. They tried it in a small pilot 15 years ago and it “didn’t go well” so now we will never touch it again, eyeroll. To be fair, we are unionized so there is a strong flavor of “if one then all, so none” in any kind personnel decision-making.

    1. Biff*

      I am 100% remote.

      It’s all about hiring people who are self accountable and can work at home. Seriously, you have to hire for that. If you don’t, nothing else works. Some people really can’t work at home or hate doing it. (I have a friend who is an extreme extravert, took a remote position and about upped and died of social starvation.) You also have to build very realistic ideas about what can be completed in a given time period. There’s a temptation, I think, to overload teleworkers because they are saving the time it takes to say, pack a lunch, and commute, or expect them to eat at their desks, which may very well be the kitchen table ANYWAY. I know that some managers call their work from home people at random times to make sure they pick up and just assume they are not working because they didn’t answer. There’s no need to get micro-managey. That attitude will burn people out.

      As a manager, you really need to make sure that people are hitting their quotas/goals and pulling their weight. I think it’s critical to also understand they are working from their home, which makes video-conferencing iffy at times. If we’re in a crunch period, my housework is falling by the side. I don’t want to share what my house looks like right then.

      As a worker, I have to figure out when to turn off work. That’s the hardest thing for me.

  57. YogaYeti*

    Timing man. My job ended (layoff) in October and I’ve been looking for a new job in the East Coast City I live in since then. My boyfriend of almost 7 months has been offered and accepted a great job in large southern city (in the state I’m from), so he’s moving there next month. We’re going to try long distance and see what happens, but I don’t want to do that indefinitely (we’re in our 30s, tick tock). I’m adding remote work opportunities to what I’m searching for, but my immediate priority is to find a job even if it doesn’t have immediate remote work opportunities. Anyone been in a situation like this before? Any thoughts or suggestions or slaps of sense upside the head?

  58. Wait, What Now?*

    I think I know the answer to this, but I’d really love some reassurance.

    I’m expecting to get a job offer later this month/early next month. Depending on the salary offered/negotiated, I’m planning on taking the job. It’s a definite step in the right direction career-wise. I wasn’t looking for another job, I was invited to apply & it’s too good of an opportunity to pass up. I want to one day make enough for my husband to work part time, and this is the best way to do that.

    My problem is that I know my leaving my current job will put a lot of strain on the company. I’m the only one who does what I do and the only 2 other people who could cover parts of my job are also planning on leaving. This sounds ominous, but 1 just had another baby and needs a higher paycheck and the other is retiring. I love the people at my job and I hate feeling like I’m letting them down. I know I would be thrilled for someone else in my position, but the guilt is weighing heavy on me.

    I guess I’m asking if I’m doing the right thing? Or if I should feel guilty? Or should I NOT feel guilty, but it’s a normal reaction? I have no idea – I guess I just needed to type it all out and get some advice.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Its natural to feel a little guilty but don’t let that stop you from doing what you need to do for your career. Remember the company also puts its bottom line first and if they had to fire / downsize / relocate you, believe me they would do it.

      1. KayEss*

        Exactly… if the company decided it was in their interests, you would be out the door in an afternoon without regard to what position it left you and your family in. Same goes for your new parent colleague and anyone else. People leave jobs all the time, and functional companies plan for it. Put whatever work is reasonable into documentation for your role on your way out, and leave with a clear conscience.

    2. Reba*

      I think you should NOT feel guilty, but based on posts here, it’s very normal!

      Your current workplace would have to go on if something dire happened to you or any of your colleagues. Remember that by planning your departure and preparing for it, you’re leaving them in a much better situation than if the Bus Principle were in play. Good luck!

    3. stitchinthyme*

      It’s totally common; I’ve felt it every time I’ve left a job. Usually my guilt is not about the company — as Allison has said frequently here, people leaving is a common and expected aspect of doing business, and no matter how indispensable someone seems, the company WILL go on without them. But since “the company” is faceless while the people you work directly with are not, and they will undoubtedly feel the strain of covering your job when you leave, they’ll survive. I have never once seen one individual’s leaving a company cause it to collapse.

      What I’ve done to relieve my own guilt has generally been to give my contact info to my coworkers and let them know they can ask me questions once I’m gone. Thankfully, no one has abused this; I’ve gotten the odd question here and there after I’ve left, but none have been so obnoxious that I feel like I’m being asked to continue working for no pay. I seem to recall at least one letter on here complaining about this sort of thing, so whether you do it should depend on whether you think your soon-to-be-former coworkers are likely to try to take advantage of you.

      Anyway, take your offer, give your notice, try to leave as much documentation behind as you can, and move on. Your coworkers will likely struggle a bit, but they’ll live.

    4. This Daydreamer*

      It’s personnel, not personal. Keep in mind that now someone else gets the chance to take the job you’re leaving behind.

    5. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      I just left a job in December, and I really kinda screwed them. I knew it too. I spent time documenting all the stuff I did/knew, did some training for the people who’d be taking over, etc. They’ll be fine. In my case, hopefully it’ll be a wake up call that they’ve got some mgmt problems.

    6. Sam Foster*

      You should not feel guilty. Your company could lay you off, relocate their office or a thousand other things that could end your employment tomorrow. You owe them nothing except a notice period.

  59. RunnerGirl*

    Hi All,

    I’m getting frustrated with my job search that has been going on 6+ months now.

    I’m getting interviews, so my application is working. I don’t know what else I can do. I am excited and do everything I can to sell my experience to the position. I ask appropriate questions and the “What would differentiate someone who is good vs someone who is great”. I send thank-you notes. Yet nobody wants to hire me.

    Anyone else go through this? Go any tips?

    1. Lil Fidget*

      I’m going through the exact same thing right now. I’m getting interviews and being told I’m one of the top choices, so I know I’m on the right track, but I’m not getting the offer I need. I really try to see it as a GOOD sign, even if it doesn’t feel that way – at the moment of final choice, it’s all just a question of near-random statistics, and it’ll come down in my favor at some point. Also Alison answered this question but I can’t find it – it was somebody who went on a very high number of interviews but hadn’t landed a job yet. Alison told him the same thing, this is actually a good sign and keep on keeping on.

      1. Snark*

        It IS a good sign. If you’re not getting interviews, that’s a bad sign, but if you’re getting interest, you’re on the right track.

      2. RunnerGirl*

        I just hope someone sees some value in me before my bank account runs dry. 10 years of experience in accounts receivable, completed the 3rd level of the CGA program, done the Canadian Payroll Association courses getting marks of 80% and above, and did some volunteer payroll work. I was at my last job for 5 years before they decided to lay me off.

        I don’t know how much more I need to do to convince someone to hire me.

          1. Lil Fidget*

            I guess the only thing I would say is, how confident are you that your interview game is good? Because people have told me it came down to me and one other candidate – more than once – I’m assuming my interviews aren’t blowing my chances. Do you have doubts about how your presenting? I do have a wonderful friend who is terrible in interviews, and she can’t get something despite excellent qualifications. She turns really wooden and flat – knows she’s doing it, but can’t stop :(

    2. Snark*

      Unfortunately, my only tip is persistence and perseverence. You’re getting interviews. Last time I was unemployed, I think I had 15 interviews, and came down to the final two candidates at least twice. And then my current job just kind of miraculously happened.

    3. fposte*

      Clearly you’re a competitive candidate. If you think there might be things that you could improve but you don’t know what they are, here are a couple of possibilities. 1, contact somebody who you clicked reasonably well with from one of the previous job searches and say you’re having a tough time breaking past the interview stage and that you’d be really interested in hearing any feedback they have about your strengths and weaknesses as a candidate. 2, have a mock interview with a perceptive friend not likely to sugarcoat and ask her to identify three things that you could improve–and make sure she’s thinking of it as you competing with other people, rather than just whether you’re delightful in the interview or not.

      It’s heartbreaking to get close and not get the job, but I think you’ll get there–good luck!

    4. Summer Sun*

      I was downsized in 2008 and didn’t find work in my field again until 2014. Put your head down and just keep powering through. If the well is running dry, there’s always food service and retail.

    5. Also a DC person*

      I only recently got out of this pattern (1 full year of job searching where I just kept getting interviews but no offers.

      What worked for me: Practicing a crap ton for my interviews. Also, whenever they asked “Tell me about your self”, I would explicitly state: “[blurb about previous experience] I believe these skills qualify me for this position because…” This may seem obvious, but for the longest time I only kept describing my skills and experience without explicitly making that connection. My career counselor suggested it. I implemented it in the next interview I had and got the job!

    6. anon for this*

      I’m in the same position and it is very frustrating. Unfortunately, I know the reason why I haven’t gotten any offers–it’s because full-time editorial jobs in my city are so rare that people with 15-20 years’ experience are applying for jobs at the same level as me (4 years’ experience) and getting all of them.

    7. Struck by Lightning*

      If it’s any consolation, in my particular field within federal government, ***2 YEARS*** is considered the typical amount of time for a high-performing individual to find a new job (assuming they aren’t willing to move to one of the handful of known nightmare offices that have 40% annual turnover and basically anyone can get hired at because they are desperate along with always having openings). One of my previous jobs had over 400 qualified applicants when I left (I think the next time they set a limit on how many applications they would accept).

      Good luck & hang in there!!

  60. Nervous Accountant*

    Soooo, this is part vent, part question.

    Let me get the venting out of the way–I’m at my wits end w this coworker. She has a history of trying to weasel out of work and is generally very bad at communicating. I posted the issues here last June.
    https://www.askamanager.org/2017/06/open-thread-june-2-3-2017.html

    The latest thing–which I accept may very well be BEC on my part–I was on vacation and she emailed me. Twice. I have an OOO msg up and we sit right across from each other so there’s no way she didn’t know I wasn’t here. Very very very simple questions that literally anybody in the office could answer. She has many ppl in the office she could have asked the question to, so it’s not a matter of that shes only comfortable talking to me. Just when I think she has a little bit of common sense, she pulls weird stuff like this. I’ve tried framing it as “what if (excellent) coworker emailed me this question while I was away? Would I still be angry?”And the answer is….if the employee was really excellent they wouldn’t have done this in the first place.

    Question–I guess I just want to know the thought process behind this? I know it’s a little thing, but it’s a little thing amongst other things. If you’re an employee, who’s not new….why would you email someone you know is not in the office? Esp when you can get the answer by googling or asking 40 other people in the office? That’s…like…if I email my big boss asking her “how do I prepare a tax return?”

    FYI, not checking email isn’t much of an option for me–it’s not 100% required, but it’s a very very very strong preference for me.

    1. Snark*

      She was emailing you because she knew you were unavailable and could use that to weasel out. “I cannot reach Nervous Accountant for the answer, so I cannot do the Thing. What do?”

      I’d email her back when you’re in the office. “Please do not email me when I’m on vacation, particularly not with basic questions anybody who was in the office at the time can help you with.”

    2. Lil Fidget*

      TBH you’re putting a lot more thought into this than she did. She just needed something and thought emailing you was the easiest way to get it, end of thought. She didn’t think about how you would feel or that it was rude because you were on vacation and deserved a break or whatever. I might take it up with her, “Norma Jean, please don’t email me questions on vacation, I’m not going to be able to respond.” (You didn’t respond, right? Tell me you didn’t respond. If you did, that means you’ve trained her to do this).

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        No, I was waiting to bring it up in person and wait for her to bring it up. I feel like if I do it in writing, no matter how nicely it’s worded, I’ll get in trouble.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          No I mean, if she asked where the Frank File is, you didn’t tell her where the file is from your vacation, did you?

          1. Nervous Accountant*

            Nooo I didn’t respond at all! Wanted to wait a few days to cool off and honestly get advice from here too.

            2. Not So NewReader*

              Let your silence do the talking for you. For your own piece of mind, either delete the email or do not check work email on vacation.

              Think of it this way, she got your OOO message. Up to her to read and understand. I am big fan of letting nature run its course on things like this. When she does not get an answer from you, it might dawn on her to ask someone else. We have to let people go through their learning curves, even if it is painful for us to watch. Remember it is HER difficulty not yours.

              1. Nervous Accountant*

                True, I agree with letting it takes its course.

                I keep emails on bc as crazy as it sounds, it realy helps reduce my anxiety; I’d rather know what I’m coming back to than come back blind.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      If I did this, it would be for one of the following reasons:

      1. You’re the only person I trust to give me the correct answer.
      2. I don’t expect an answer from you quickly, so this is my excuse for not getting my task done (i.e., what Snark said).
      3. I don’t expect an answer from you quickly, and I plan to use this to make you look bad (i.e., “I couldn’t do that because Nervous Accountant never got back to me.”)
      4. I know you’ll check your email and I get a little kick out of forcing you to work while you’re on vacation.
      5. I hope/believe you’ll reply with a snarky answer that I can use against you.
      6. I like you and wanted an excuse to chat.

      Do any of these seem likely?

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Well, she sounds lovely. :-P

          I’d respond, eventually, with “Sorry, since I’m on vacation, I didn’t see this until today. I assume you’ve already found the answer, since Jane and Wakeen and Fergus were around to ask?”

    4. Anony*

      I have e-mailed coworkers on vacation because it was not time sensitive and I figured they would get to it when they got back. I do that so that I can keep moving forward on the project instead of spending time figuring out when exactly they would be back in the office so I could send the e-mail.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        But what was the email? Like was it something only they would have known? If it was, I could understand. But this was a general Q.

      2. tigerlily*

        And I’ve emailed people on vacation simply because in the moment I needed the answer, I forgot they were on vacation.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          That’s true. I would have given the benefit of the doubt if she were new or otherwise didn’t have this weird history, but I also feel like I gave her a LOT of benefit of the doubt before.

      3. Earthwalker*

        Me too. Or emailed when I was sleepless at 3:00 am, thinking that I’d act on the matter while it was on my mind and assuming that they’d see the mail when they came in the office in the morning. But these days people tend to answer from their bed or their surfboard and assume that you are demanding an immediate reply, so I got prompt answers and some grumbles about how unreasonable I was about people’s off hours. It’s anybody’s guess whether the OP’s difficult coworker meant the mail to be answered immediately, expected an answer upon return from vacation, or was using the email as an excuse to evade work.

  61. EA*

    This might be a little personal for the work thread. I feel like my supervisors/coworkers at my new job don’t like me. I try and reciprocate small talk, and take their lead on things (ask about things as much as they do), and be nice. When I first started their were some awkward silences and conversations gaps. They are all polite, but it seems like they cut most things off when the work conversations end. They also always prefer to do things over email, and have mostly stopped talking to me socially. They are not like this with each other, so I feel left out. Should I just accept things and stop trying to engage/ make connections?

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Yes I would back off if you’re getting the sign that your socializing is not reciprocated. Focus on being professional and effective for a while, too busy to chat, just focused on the work (while still polite, of course) and see if that does you any better. Once I start to get that whiff of desperation to be liked, it’s unwinnable for me.

    2. Anony*

      If they all have been working together for a while the more social aspect of their interactions may have developed over time. Trying to force it will feel awkward and that can make people retreat even more. I would say that you should probably top trying to make connections because it will either happen naturally or it won’t. Very occasionally you can venture a question like “so any fun plans over the weekend” that can be easily answered with “not really” if they don’t want to chit chat. That keeps the door open for them to engage with you if they choose but doesn’t force them to.

    3. Dawn*

      People that have worked together for a long time have their own clique, if they wanted you in it they would invite you. It’s a “he’s just not into you” thing, just do work, and they’ll let you in or they won’t.

      1. Former Retail Manager*

        Sooo true. I only recently realized that although I am very talkative with most everyone in our office, I deliberately didn’t talk to the newbies (who have now been here for about a year and half and are still considered to be “in training”) My reasoning was because so much information is coming at you so quickly that I remember being overwhelmed, stressed, and focused on getting things done. I have started talking to all of them more in the last few months and a couple have quipped that they thought I didn’t like them. Told them that I just didn’t want to be a distraction to them because I remember how stressful and busy it was. They appeared both surprised and relieved by my response. They are all slowly being accepted “into the fold” if you will…..it has just taken time.

  62. Be the Change*

    What’s a career decision you made that, had you taken the other path, would have changed everything for you?

    I once had an offer to do a PhD fellowship in a field I loved, that would probably have led to life as a tenured faculty member at a teaching university — which I would have loved — and I turned it down to join the mission field. (There’s a whole back-story to that clusterf-ck.) And sadly, when the mission field face-planted, it didn’t occur to me to see if the fellowship opportunity still existed.

    Tell me tales of what would-have-been!

    1. Be the Change*

      I should say that I do have a great job and a lovely life, but I think I missed my actual calling there.

    2. Pepsquad*

      Hmm I was thinking about this recently and I believe there may have been three or four points, god maybe five or six actually in which I could have gone a different and perhaps MUCH easier direction.

      – one I was working at a theatre on a short contract, and they had longer office jobs available, I didn’t apply as I
      wanted to work in film, I also didn’t keep in touch with my manager although I could probably have gotten another role short term. Instead I was unemployed a long time, had lots of short term jobs, did some free film work and then ended up in admin.
      – two – I had a longterm side job which due to my relationships with the company could have led to a full time job, rather than my main job which I hated (admin.)
      – three – I had some good film jobs, unpaid, which if I’d kept on going might have led somewhere, although I was burnt outand competition was fierce, so not sure about that one, I think I made the right call, although wish I’d either worked with the theatre or changed the side job into my main one instead of the role I did do.
      – four – at school I wrote and got paid for doing it, I had the opportunity to do a blog and didn’t use it, I could haveused the samples I had to have got more writing, I could have done what I’m about to do now and freelance! Not sure the market or my abilities would have been good enough, but it could have been alongside 1-4!
      – five – I turned down a second job interview with a small arty company, where I might have got to do more creative work to temp, as I’d worked in a similar environment and it had gone very badly. The job I took instead wasn’t all that much better, and there was definitely nothing creative there.
      – six – if the arty role hadn’t gone badily I might be in a very different position. Although again, it was a bad fit I think in terms of management and personalites – which is majorly annoying as it was the coolest job I’ve ever done.

      Ultimately annoyed in myself that I didn’t keep up with relationships, and sometimes oscilated at least in terms of film roles from major belief in myself that something would turn up rather than working a concrete job, to utter disbelief and working a terrible job because I didn’t believe anything would come good.

      A middle ground would have been nice!

    3. Enough*

      For me it would have been changing my major to accounting rather than civil engineering. But than I wonder if I would have ended up married to my brother-in-law. I have no regrets as I made decisions over the years that could have led to a different life but I like what I have.

    4. brrrr*

      I was out of work a few years ago and struggling to find a new job – in part because the job market was always less than ideal where I grew up.
      Two of my family members (my favorites bar none) had worked for one of the biggest newspapers in New England- one of them ran it. If I had wanted I could have had a job there in about 3 seconds. I would have been good at it and probably would have enjoyed it but my life would be very different than it is now. I’d still be in New England, I’d probably make more money, probably have a boyfriend/spouse by now.
      That door is closed permanently since they’ve since died but every once in a while I think about what would have happened if I had let them make that phone call.

    5. Buffy*

      I was working two part time jobs, one with a terribly managed company and the other affiliated with the company I ultimately wanted to work for. I really needed a full time job and the terribly managed company finally offered me one, with an equally terrible salary! After getting laughed at for requesting more money and being told, “do you really think [Ultimate Company] will pay that?” I declined.

      It took longer than I’d have liked, but now I’m full-time with Ultimate Company, been promoted, and earning 45% more than the “do you really think they’ll pay that” salary. :)

      1. Buffy*

        They offered the position to a co-worker who I’m friendly with. She is frustrated by the job but doesn’t have many other options. I’m hugely sympathetic, but I’m glad I pursued my path because I’m very happy and fulfilled where I am!

    6. MLiz*

      I had an offer to study in City B but was already enrolled in City A.

      Six years later I ended up in City B for my PhD. I love City B. I am heartbroken that in my chosen profession (field related to my PhD but outside academia) that I can’t find work there.
      However, I had a dreadful time and a really suffered a lot under that supervisor. I would not have ended up with him if I had studied in City B from the first. Maybe I would still be in a job where I couldn’t stay in City B, but I would probably not have tried to recover two years from being burned out and desperate. So definitely the road not taken.

    7. Elizabeth West*

      I kind of wish I’d finished my master’s in education, even if I wasn’t going to teach high school or go on for a Ph.D to teach college English. Then I could have gotten a job in corporate training. Not that corporate training is my dream job, but it pays better than answering the phone and might have gotten me out of here. But that is not going to happen now, as I don’t want to add to my already substantial student loan debt and I have no desire to go back to school ever.

    8. girlswithapearl*

      I work in political advocacy but always on the nonprofit side; I turned down an offer in 2004 to move to Iowa and sleep on couches (paid otherwise, but not enough) to be on the Howard Dean campaign. I’ve done various short stints on campaign since then through orgs, but always wondered if that decision could have led to working more intensely on the Hill or on campaigns, which is something I regret a little..

      (I have an amazing career, recognized expertise on my issues, etc., but there’s the what if!)

    9. Former Retail Manager*

      My career decision really involved changing my degree plan. I was originally looking into a degree in business management with plans to move up the chain in the world of retail. I ultimately abandoned that when I realized that retail is a close second to the pits of hell and switched to accounting. I don’t regret it one bit. It has been a great choice that has afforded me a career that I love with job security and great compensation.

    10. Fortitude Jones*

      In November/December 2015, I ended up with two job offers after two months of furious job searching to leave a position with a toxic manager. Job A was an internal position in another division and was also a promotion; Job B was an external position doing vendor auditing at a large nationwide bank I’d been trying to get hired into since 2010. (To be fair, my then company was also another one I’d been trying to work at since 2010.)

      I chose Job A, even though my base salary would have been slightly less than what Job B was offering, because Job A’s pay band was higher than Job B’s and with my guaranteed education bonuses from Job A factored in, I’d end up making more money each year in Job A than in Job B, which didn’t have guaranteed bonuses. Also, it was kind of intimated to me that I’d be on the fast track for promotion again in Job A if my work was up to snuff (which I exceeded job goals in that position).

      This ended up being a mistake. Yes, the money was great, but Job A evolved into something that was almost unrecognizable to the job I originally accepted. Additionally, I kicked ass in that role, but got passed over for promotion so they could bump up people who weren’t doing half of what I was doing numbers or quality wise. Had I taken Job B, I would have had less money overall, yes; however, they had way better insurance than my prior company, a 401k plan and a pension, and I would have had the opportunity to at least shape my position in a way that benefited me as opposed to the shit show I ended up in with Job A. I told myself that if I ever got offered another external position during a job search, I’d take it.

      Second week of November 2017 I received a job offer from another company in a totally different industry than the one I was currently working in doing something I’ve never done before. I took the job. We’ll see if that was a smart move shortly I guess, lol.

    11. Hildegard Vonbingen*

      Not taking up my boss’s offer to become a stock broker. He offered to pay for the training and licensing. It wasn’t a bucket shop, but I didn’t think it was the right career for me, so I turned him down after thanking him for the offer. He did it because he thought highly of my work ethic, job performance, ability to get along with others, and ability to learn new things quickly, so I was flattered. But I had to do what I thought was right for me.

      If I had taken him up on the offer, my life would have been MUCH different that it has been. Certainly more stressful, because I’m not a person who feels comfortable selling, possibly more financially rewarding, although I’m financially comfortable as it is. Certainly a much different professional culture than what I’m accustomed to – and comfortable with.

      I made the right decision, in hindsight. But it’s interesting to imagine myself having followed that path. Like a movie about somebody else that looks like me but isn’t much like me at all, in all the ways that matter.

    12. LaterKate*

      In high school and early in my college career, i very much wanted to be a print journalist. I ended up switching to nursing, which is obviously completely different, and i love it. I am now in a stable, well paid field where there are many job opportunities. I suspect things would not have gone as well in journalism…

    13. Mimmy*

      A few years ago, I came thisclose to applying for a PhD – I was looking at taking the GRE and I even met with the Program Director at the school I was looking at (same one as where I got my Masters in the same field). In fact, I’d been doing this should-I-do-this-or-not dance since my sister suggested it on the night of my Masters graduation. To this day I still go back and forth on this on occasion because I have several ideas in my head of what I could study and write about.

    14. DDJ*

      I was temping at a company and decided to go back to school for Business Administration. I enrolled in the program, paid my deposits, all ready to go. I told my boss that I was going back to school. She said that I should apply for the position that had just opened up. I didn’t have the education OR the experience listed on the posting, so I hadn’t considered applying for it.

      Thankfully my boyfriend encouraged me to apply, since I’d been approached by someone who knew the role. He said that she wouldn’t have suggested I apply if she didn’t think I could do it. So I applied. And I got the job. And I didn’t really care that I had to forfeit that $250 deposit I’d made to the school. AND I eventually did go back to school part-time and completed the program I’d originally intended on taking.

      Had I decided to let my insecurities get the better of me and gone back to school instead of applying for the job? I would have finished the program and been looking for jobs during a recession.

  63. Pepsquad*

    Is anyone a freelance writer/journalist who regularly pitches to magazines to write for them?
    I’m looking to do this, and have done some writing, and recently had a pitch approved and published. Obviously this is only one and it wasn’t for a great deal of money. I want to do this for a while and see if I can make anything of it, I have savings and need a break from going straight back to either temping or applying for jobs. I realise it would have been better to prep before leaving my job, and that this isn’t an easy option, I will likely take on another role part-time, or temp, apply for full-time jobs in a bit, but I want to give myself some time to focus on writing.

    I’m trying to figure out a strategy, I meant to do a lot in December but ended up getting over leaving my job and doing holiday stuff.

    What I assume I need to do is find some niches that interest me and work towards pitching these areas, so far I’ve been searching for pitches for ages and not writing much. I’m overwhelming myself a bit.

    How do you manage looking for places to pitch, and actually writing pitches/ideas?

    1. Manders*

      Most of the people I know who do this also supplement their income with something else, usually copywriting or ghostwriting under someone else’s byline. Temping or working part-time could also be a good way to keep up a steady side stream of income.

      Unfortunately, I don’t know anyone who was able to jump straight into freelance writing under their own byline full time who wasn’t either 1) independently wealthy or 2) heavily dependent on their family or partner for support. Making a little income doing it isn’t impossible, but building up to the point that you have a reliable amount of cash coming in is very difficult.

      2. Manders*

        Oops, I realized that I didn’t actually answer your question! Writer’s Market is the most famous collection of places to submit articles that pay. There are a lot of forums and sites that collect opportunities for freelance writers that are worth looking into. You can also search places like Upwork and Craigslist for postings in your niche, but be aware most of that work won’t be under your own byline.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      I used to work full-time as a freelance writer, with a bit of copy editing and some copywriting thrown in here and there. I would recommend reading the Media Bistro How to Pitch series. I found the Renegade Writer helpful way back when but don’t know if the advice is up to date. Make sure you network with other writers – they are your colleagues, as well as your competitors, and may be in a position to pass work your way (but do not ask them to, especially if they hardly know you).

      I used to see where other writers were getting published as that told me who was buying. However, you should know it’s really bad etiquette to ask someone for a contact when they just had something published eg if they post it on a group you’re in do not comment asking who the editor is.

      I used to coach new freelancers on pitching but I don’t know that my advice is up to date any more. I changed field in 2016 and before that I had reached a point where I had regular clients and people coming to me so it’s a long time since I’ve pitched anything!

      1. Pepsquad*

        Thank you – just looked at Media Bistro and all their courses are $18 :) will have a look for Renegade Writer.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          I can’t speak to the quality of their courses as I never did one but How to Pitch is a series of articles and is free to read. Link coming in next comment.

    3. WellRed*

      I wouldn’t worry about not pitching over the holidays. I am still digging out. Make sure you focus pitch to pub, but also, make sure they work with freelancers like this. Not everyone does and you don’t want to waste your time.

  64. Rock Prof*

    New to commenting here, but I have a couple questions that perhaps some of you all can help me with. I’m a professor at a regional (US midwest), undergraduate university in earth and environmental sciences. Most of our students end up in environmental consulting or working for state/local agencies, while I’m one of the life-long academics and have never worked off of a university campus since junior year of high school, so this site has been so useful for actually advising students who aren’t going straight to graduate school. Because apparently none of the other faculty care in my department, I’m trying to establish some sort of alumni network for a variety of reasons: networking (a lot of them stay local and could likely benefit from connections), departmental relations (the college has recently started up alumni events, and it would be easier to send an invite to a group versus track down individuals), and departmental data (where are our students and what are they doing?). I’m not planning on spamming them regularly, but I would like some place to post jobs, put up departmental/college updates, and send event invitations.
    I’m friends with recent alumni on facebook, but since I’ve only been in my position for 4.5 years, I don’t have a lot of depth there, and it’s also my personal page. I’ve started a LinkedIn group, which seems like the more professional option, but I have also realized that I don’t understand LinkedIn. So, my questions: is this a good use of LinkedIn, or would there be some better way? What should go on an alumni group LinkedIn group? What should I be sure NOT to do on it?

    1. CheeryO*

      I’m in a similar field and have gotten more involved with my alma mater recently because they were dying for more participation from my state agency, since we end up employing a good number of graduates. I would say that LinkedIn is probably not the best avenue for anything time-sensitive. I don’t think most people check it often enough to be able to respond to event invitations. Job postings would probably be okay since active job seekers would be checking more often. Could you do an email list in addition to the group? I don’t think the type of people who would participate in events would mind getting a few extra emails per year for events.

      1. Rock Prof*

        Thanks for the feedback! An email list would certainly work, but I was leaning toward LinkedIn because it wouldn’t necessarily clog up their inboxes and students lose their university email address 6 months after graduating, so it would be not an insubstantial amount of work for me to keep abreast of their current email addresses. On top of this, my university, for reasons that confound and annoy me, won’t release lists of all current majors to us professors, so I can’t even email out to all current students without a lot of legwork. This is probably one of those things where I just need to put some time and work into getting the email group setup and hopefully make it so that it can be kind of self-sustaining (online form in the graduation survey, maybe?) in the future.

        I don’t think I’d be putting anything super time intensive on LinkedIn, more like things with a month or two of lead time on them. But, truthfully, I never check LinkedIn more than once every couple months, so I guess even that would be a problem for me.

        1. CheeryO*

          Ah, gotcha. We can keep our .edu email addresses forever, which must help a lot. We also have the benefit of being a huge state school, even though my program was small – I see that’s not the case for you, so getting some momentum going might be a challenge. Maybe if you could push the group a bit through Facebook or any other contact that you have with alumni, you get get a boost in your numbers and hopefully start seeing more participation.

    2. SL #2*

      This is a good use of LinkedIn, but I think moderating groups on any site takes certain skills similar to facilitating a meeting, with the benefits of being behind a computer screen instead. Knowing when to be heavy-handed in deleting irrelevant posts, for example, and knowing when to let the discussion continue, even if it’s contentious.

      From my experience alone: I’m in my university’s LinkenIn alumni group as well as a smaller alumni group for students who did a particular study-abroad program at my school. One of these is run well, one is not. The larger university group suffers from a lot of meaningless articles and “what do you think?” questions, and strange spam posts. The smaller program group is limited to apartment searches in the region where we studied together, job postings if we think that it could be beneficial to someone, and news from the counselors we worked with. You know, actual useful information.

      1. Rock Prof*

        This is good to think about. I’ve had the group going for a couple years now, though I haven’t pushed students/alumni to join it at all. So, far it’s less than 30 members, and no one has posted anything on it except for me. We’re a tiny program (maybe graduating 10-15 students a year) at a tiny university (~4000 students total), so I’m not very worried about it getting out of control in the future.

    3. LadyKelvin*

      I went to a small liberal arts college where most of us (biology and enviro science) went into industry. We have a Facebook group that a couple of our professors are admins for, and they periodically post events, etc. It seems to work pretty well, but you might need to coordinate adding people or what to do with people who don’t have facebook.

    4. Gertrude*

      As part of our exit process from my major we filled out information that included a non .edu email address. I get emails about 2x a year from them with surveys (which include demographic / address updates / salary questions) and to opt-into a networking database. The networking database is on the major’s website at the university. I get a holiday card signed by the dean and it’s great. I would say that LinkedIn is not the way to go (although we also have a LinkedIn group) since I just use it as another way to identify the school/major I’m affiliated with.

      1. Rock Prof*

        This is a great idea, and I think I’ll just make my own informal exit survey so I can at least have a list of emails. Our university doesn’t have any established way of hosting some sort of database like that, but there’s perhaps something I could start off-site.

  65. user987*

    What do you do if your boss’s boss asks you about your opinion about your team (your boss included) if your honest opinion would need to be negative.

    Assume you’re new in the team and the work in your team (but not in the whole company, just in your team) is dysfunctional. The problem is your direct boss, who is rude to our partners – then you have the problem that they don’t want to work with you, who excludes most members of your (very small) team from decisions/ meetings which are important to their work and only talks to one favorite person on the team.

    The boss’s boss seems a really nice person. You also suspect that he’s critical towards your boss himself.

    [Let me now change “you” into “me]

    I got excellent reviews after joining the team. They were expressed by our (internal and external) partners directly to my boss’s boss. So I know he was happy with my performance. My direct boss doesn’t like me though and behaves like described above.

    I’m looking for a new job, but honestly, I would love to stay with the company, just not under my current boss.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      I would suspect that my grandboss is asking my opinion of my boss because he wants to see if the dislike is mutual, if the reasons are business-related, and if anything can/should be done about it. So I would be Business Honest. (Which means you don’t say “he’s a jerk and he’s dragging us down,” you say “he doesn’t seem to have a good relationship with our partners.”)

    2. Lil Fidget*

      Neutral answer! Always a neutral answer in my opinion, this is the office equivalent of “does this dress make me look fat.” It’s a trap. I say this because I’ve never found it to be helpful to me personally in my career to speak negatively of my boss or my company. It ALWAYS gets back to them somehow, and a supervisor isn’t going to trust someone who ragged on their own supervisor. I’d damn with faint praise at most, as a signal to my grandboss that I’m savvy with what’s up.

      1. user987*

        How do you imagine that in practice?

        I would need to say partner A doesn’t want to work us. Then my boss’s boss would ask why. How could I say, “because one person from our team offended them” without “being negative”?

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Did you hear anything directly from A? It’s not being negative to say “Partner A told me he wouldn’t work with Wakeen any more.”

          1. Lil Fidget*

            I think there probably is some business-ease way to say, “I think we’re struggling to connect with partners/clients with clear communication,” or something, that is factual and neutral but shows that at least you are awake at the wheel. But it’s hard when the problem is clearly that Boss is an dingbat to not say that, and everytime I’ve said that, I’ve really regretted it. So now I avoid such discussions.

        3. periwinkle*

          “From what I have seen, there is a difference in communication styles between Boss and Partner A which impacts the working relationship between our teams.”

          That’s Business Honest. You’re not saying that Boss is a bloviating nitwit who would lose in a good-manners contest against a herd of drunken caribou. You’re noting that Boss’s communication style appears to be in conflict with Partner A’s style (which we are assuming is not caribou-esque) and this may be the root cause of the collaboration issues between the departments.

        4. NaoNao*

          Use the passive voice! This is one area I find the passive voice to be very helpful. It puts the blame “out there” but still gets the message across.
          “Our partner became upset when X was said in an email last month.”
          “The Lily Project is 6 months overdue and it is being asked about by clients.”
          “Something was said that wound up offending partner A. It seems clear that Partner A is no longer willing to work with us.”

          I would:
          Stick to verifiable facts that can be “proven in a court of law”. If you got an email from a partner saying “I am offended by this team” or something very similar, then say that. “A partner emailed us and said that the handling of the X project was frustrating and the tone of the email was generally negative.”

    4. NW Mossy*

      This one’s really dependent on the kind of relationship you have with your grandboss and how much you understand about what messages speak to him.

      For example, my own grandboss was in town recently and asked me in a skip-level what my team’s biggest challenges are. Knowing him to be a relationship-oriented kind of guy, I talked about how lack of alignment/clarity with Department Y was a problem and that better relationships would help fix it. It happens to be true (Y is a continuing source of frustration for my directs and me because they don’t communicate clearly and have unreasonable expectations sometimes), but I tailored how I described the problem to, frankly, flatter his biases. While he likely won’t do anything with what I told him (nor does he need to), it went a little way towards building a good relationship between the two of us, which is really the most useful thing to me long-term. I don’t know him all that well, so right now it’s about building his trust that I’m in alignment with him.

  66. Hedgehog*

    Hi all! I could use some advice. I just got back to work after 6 weeks of medical leave (burn out and mental-heath related). Before I went on leave, I expressed to my manager that I was struggling due to the secondary trauma I was exposed to in my direct-service role and the frustration I had that there was no opportunities for growth in the organization and she seemed to get it. She’s been very supportive of my going on leave and the transition back has been going well so far. When I came back she and I had a conversation about how they had heard my concerns and were working on growth opportunities.

    Fast forward to today– I just found out that they created a new position that would be a management role on the same level as my current boss (call it level 2.0– I currently am 1.0) and they are looking for internal candidates. AND I also found out that they are in the process of developing another role with slightly more responsibilities as well (1.5 level). I’m excited and intrigued about this (and really really grateful that they are listening and care about feedback!). I am seriously considering applying for the 2.0 role (and if I didn’t get it, the 1.5 role), but I can’t shake the feeling that it’s a little tone-deaf to apply for a management position after having just had to go on leave due to stress and burn-out. Am I off-base here? I don’t want to miss the opportunity but I also don’t want to seem like I have totally unrealistic expectations. It would be a big jump for me in terms of responsibility, but I think I would bring skills that they need and it would distance me from the direct-service work that caused me to burn out in the first place. I’m really torn– I’d love any advice you can offer!

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      So, she acknowledged that one of your issues was the lack of growth opportunities, she told you they were working on growth opportunities when you came back, and now you’re wondering if it would be tone-deaf to apply for them? I think it might be tone-deaf not to apply! Unless I really misinterpreted what you’re saying here.

    2. Lil Fidget*

      I say go for it, but yes I think there’s a contradiction in the implication that your current role was too demanding for you but you want to be promoted to a more demanding role. I think it may hurt your chances but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. Focus on the element that you saw no opportunity for growth in your past role and that was a factor in your struggle there, maybe?

    3. Anony*

      Would you be facing the same stress that caused you to burn out in this new position? If not I don’t think they would find it weird for you to apply at all. If yes then you should probably talk about what changed so that you don’t expect to burn out again

      1. KayKay*

        Moving into administrative/management positions in order to mitigate the emotional demands of interacting with clients all day is quite common in my service profession.

      1. NotMyRealName*

        Me too! My undergrad school only offered a BS for nursing students, the rest of us got BAs regardless.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        To clarify, sometimes the degree conferred is rather arbitrary. I did more science-y science in my undergrad degree, which was not an BS, than I did in my political science focused Masters degree, which ended up an MS because of the college it was under.

    3. fposte*

      Perfectly common in my experience. Whether something is an A or an S is as much institutional convention as anything else, so you could even have them in the same subject.

    4. The New Wanderer*

      I almost did – I have a BA and I left the program after my master’s, where a terminal master’s was an MS (which had slightly different requirements than a master’s obtained through the PhD track). My master’s was incorrectly listed as an MS by the university, which I had to adjust, but as noted, there was an appropriate path to MS.

    5. KayEss*

      Is this feedback you got? Because that’s silly, as others have already pointed out. If you’re not putting what the degrees are actually in, though, you should probably consider including that.

      1. fposte*

        Oh, wow, I think you’re right and that I misread Summer Sun, who is the one who got that feedback.

        Well, SS, at least you can see that we all think it’s ridiculous too.

      2. Summer Sun*

        Yes, feedback I received. The major/concentrations are indeed listed. My field straddles the arts and sciences, so I thought this feedback was odd, but wanted to double check. Thank you!

    7. Anony*

      That is so weird. I have a BA in a science field and went on to get my PhD, also in science. It is mainly dependent on your school whether it is a BA or BS.

      2. Ann O'Nemity*

        My alma matter offered both for many areas. BA did not equal humanities and BS did not equal sciences. You could have a BS in communications, or a BA in physics. BA’s required a more broad selection of classes, BS’s were more focused on your major and related subject matter. I did a BA because I changed my major and wanted to count those freshman course credits to my degree :)

        I never saw a grad school require one specifically, or value one over the other.

    8. Stishovite*

      My BA is from a Small Liberal Arts College that offered BAs and nothing else. The degree is in a hard science.
      My MS is from a Large State University. It is in the same hard science.

      1. KAG*

        BAs in science/math were common in my University. Whereas my mom got a BS and MS from Juilliard School of Music (hint: neither math nor science were involved)). So I guess chalk it up to their ignorance and move on.

      2. hermit crab*

        Another liberal arts data point checking in! I actually double majored in geology and religious studies (my professors loved to joke about it), and I have the one BA. My close friends/roommates at school majored in various combinations of: physics, music, computer science, economics, philosophy, linguistics, English, and/or neuroscience — and everybody has a BA.

        The BA/BS bias totally exists, though. I was on a hiring committee once and had to go to bat for a candidate who had a BA in chemistry or something from a liberal arts school – the primary hiring manager went to a university where you could choose to get a BA or a BS in some subjects and the BA had fewer requirements, so she thought it didn’t reflect well on the candidate. I don’t really agree with that either, but the candidate in question went to a school that only awarded BAs anyway!

        1. Incantanto*

          Ffs in the sciences Cambridge and Oxford only offer BAs. And you can’t quite stick those as second class.

    9. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      I’m going to have a BA and an MS once I’m done with grad school, so not odd. A friend of mine also got her BA and then decided she was going to go to med school, which doesn’t stop with a master’s, I know, but if you looked at what her undergrad degree was in there’s absolutely no connection to med school.

    10. bookie85*

      Pretty much every librarian I know (including myself) has a BA and an MS. I have a BA in English and my Masters in Library Science is an MS.

    11. AliceBD*

      My parents both have the same undergraduate degree. One is a BA and one is a BS because of their different schools.

    12. AngelicGamer aka that visually impaired peep*

      My best friend has a BA in music and a MS in Geology. Not unlikely at all.

  68. Californian*

    Looking for feedback on what I think might be a sketchy PTO policy my company has.

    We get 5 days sick leave annually. Sick is never paid out. That much, I’m pretty sure is OK.
    There is also a rule that says we cap out at a maximum of 5 sick days. So we cannot accrue higher than 5. That, alone, sounds OK to me.

    We also supposedly are allowed to rollover sick days, but only up to the cap. In theory, this would be OK too. So if someone has 2 sick days still on Dec 31, but then got strep throat on January 3, they could take those 2 days sick leave and still have use of them, and also still accrue, eventually, another 5 days over the course of the year. Thereby theoretically having 7 sick days available to them over the course of that year.

    However, despite the written policy that we accrue leave, and thus the rollover rule above, that’s not actually what they do. As of January 1, everyone’s sick resets to 5, which can be used throughout the year. So in the example above, those two days are basically forfeited. My understanding of the CA laws were that PTO is considered earned income and cannot “expire”, but that there can be a cap at which it stops accruing. Since on paper, there is an accrual policy, they think they’re complying. But I since we’re not actually accruing the time at all, but giving it in full at the beginning of the year, does that run afoul? Since the “cap” is exactly one year’s worth, and it doesn’t accrue, that rollover promise is at best, in bad faith and at worst, makes the policy not in compliance. But the latter is the bit I’m not sure about.

    When I questioned this in the past I was told basically that it was easier in the software to just give everyone everything at the top of the year instead of accruing, and that it’s really a benefit to me that right away I have all of those five days (instead of just the two that would’ve rolled over). Except we also have a policy that you can go into the negative for up to five days, for example, specifically so if you got sick at the beginning of the year and hadn’t had anything rolled over, you could use it right away anyway and then accrue it back up later in the year.

    At a previous company it was presented to me as “If it accrues, there can be a cap at which it stops accruing. If it doesn’t accrue (or if it accrued in the past, even if the policy changes now) it cannot expire or be forfeited. It must be paid out.” But I’m not sure if that just applies to time specifically deemed “vacation” (or to all PTO at companies that don’t separate sick from vacation). The other funky thing is that our handbook is sort of contradictory that in some places it indicates all PTO is just PTO, but in others it points out how it’s determined how much we get of each kind.

    So folks, riddle me this:
    Is this just a not very logical but entirely legal policy? Or are they doing something that’s not legal in California?

    1. fposte*

      California gets super-intricate in its own usual way on this, so I don’t think many of us can parse the answer. PCBH might, if she cruises through, since she actually is a California and a legal person. I would just go ahead and contact DLSE and ask.

    2. nonprofit director*

      Does your company provide you with a single bucket of PTO? Or does it separate sick leave from vacation? It sounds to me like your company separates sick leave from vacation. If so, then what they are doing is fine under the fairly new California sick leave law. It’s vacation time that is considered compensation and cannot be forfeited but can be capped. However, if sick leave and vacation are rolled together into a single PTO policy, basically you have one bucket of paid time off, then it needs to all be treated like vacation time. Hope that helps.

    3. neverjaunty*

      This sounds pretty sketchy, but it’s hard to know without more specific facts. Can you talk to an employment lawyer? Your county bar association should have a referral service where you can go talk to a lawyer who deals with this area specifically, usually for something like $50 or less for an hour.

    4. Piano Girl*

      I live in California. Before the law changed, we had a PTO bucket that was for both sick leave and vacation. The three mandated days (that I qualified for) were an add-on. When I was laid off, I was told that I would have my remaining vacation paid out, but not the remaining sick leave (all of four hours). During my notification period, I ended up getting popcorn dust in my eye at a concert, and I had to go to the doctor. Presenting a receipt from the doctor appointment was required, but I got paid for it!

  69. Database Geek*

    While I’m job searching in the area I would like to work in, I’ve decided to make an effort to update my other skills in the area of web design or development (I’m not even sure what the correct title should be). I have previous experience with XHTML/CSS/JavaScript and working on WordPress sites so I’m taking courses in LinkedIn Learning to try to update what I already know so I can start calling myself a WordPress Developer. That said I’m still not 100% how much this will help as I still feel like I only really have the skills for helping with personal websites and the like – not working for a larger organization. I know what I’ll have to do is practice making child themes out and updating the WordPress sites I already manage.

  70. overcaffeinatedqueer*

    Ugh, I had a really awful cold all week but I only have bare minimum PTO as required by city ordinance- one hour for every 30- and not enough yet to miss and be paid for a whole day. So I have been working.

    Wednesday, I am sneezing and nose blowing and miserable in the open office and a passive aggressive all staff email gets sent about “we don’t want to spread germs! Here is the link to request paid time!” (Never mind that it takes longer to process that pay so it won’t show up on your next paycheck if you take it- instead, a week later than the usual pay schedule- and rent is due).

    I just wanted to snap, if you want people to stay home, give them enough to actually have a full day off at a stretch! And get away from the contract work model so people have the hours and predictably to take the time. I do apologize to my coworkers though.

    I hate having to come in sick.

    1. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

      I’m with you in a similar frustration – my colleagues (almost) all have the capability to work from home, do it on a regular basis, are encouraged and supported by management to do it, and yet STILL come to work sick. It is infuriating for those of us who do not have that capability and have to use PTO to stay home when we catch what is going around.
      I spent this whole week complaining to my closest work friend about our colleague doing just that… and then she got sick this morning and decided to come in anyway even though she works from home two days a week as it is. I am avoiding her at all costs because I cannot afford to get sick and lose more PTO this winter.

      1. KAG*

        I hear all y’all (and I don’t know what situation applies to me yet, as I don’t know if my sick days reset at the new year or not). Still, I chose to stay home for 3(!) days this week because I got this awful cold / flu / what have you, and it’s the month an important project is due for our team and our company has a no-work-from-home policy, so for me it’s damned if you do, damned if.you don’t. (Would be pretty easy to determine that I’m the Mary Typhoid who got everyone sick, but it’s also pretty easy to point me out as the reason our project is falling behind). Needless to say, I use my sick days as WFH days instead, but the company is very security camera / biometric finger scan upon entry and reentry to the building (I’m salaried exempt) so, well, working from home = not working. Don’t believe I’ve even gotten credit for quick responses to 1/3/5AM emails because no butt in chair.) Or the 14-hour.days I put in on Saturday/Sunday.

        So, turned into a diatribe, when I meant.to say that I’m sorry you have this cold/flu; it’s a bad one that won’t go away. I hope you feel better soon !

  71. Mighty Bullfrog*

    Longtime lurker here. I’ve read in the comments on this site about people creating a list or document describing their personal work goals for themselves. Less along the lines of what is in your performance review, and more like the person, employee, or co-worker they want to be. A kind of manifesto.

    I’d like to do this for myself, but I’m having trouble getting started. If others here have done this, could you share what is on your list, or some ideas for what to put on your list? I’m trying to find a way to specifically articulate some of the ‘soft-skills’ I’m aiming for.

    (A little context: I’ve been working at the same place since I graduated 5 years ago. I don’t have a ton of work role model here, or co-workers who I would aspire to be like.)

    Also, if anyone remembers the comment thread where this was discussed previously, that would be fantastic.

    1. Mighty Bullfrog*

      Feel free to ignore that context line – I drafted this yesterday and then quick posted it when I had a sec. Upon re-read its not relevant.

    2. periwinkle*

      Ooooh, I like the idea of calling it a manifesto. You’re calling for a career revolution!

      When I was trying to decide a career path, I inventoried my past jobs and future expectations; this helped me find my direction and identify skills to develop. What I did was write down:
      1. All of the jobs and volunteer roles I’ve held, back to my high school days
      2. What I really liked and really disliked about each one
      3. What I did better than most people in each position and what were my opportunities for improvement
      4. Read through all of the above and look for patterns and gaps

      First of all, the fact that I came up with this idea made it no surprise to find that my strongest pattern was a love for analytical work! Strengths and gaps in my soft skills also emerged as patterns – speaking in front of groups was always a weakness so I continue to work on that.

  72. April Ludgate*

    Late last week I found out that my counterpart on my team got a promotion – to the title I had before I joined here nearly three years ago. When I joined, I was told that my current title was equal to my old one, but apparently not, since she got promoted to it.

    I’m still angry and bitter about it, especially each time she asks me for help on something she can do herself or makes a ton of mistakes.. urgh.

  73. A. Ham*

    Anyone have advice for starting a conversation with your boss about a possible promotion? This is not an official “here is my resume I want to apply for the job” but more of a “can we discuss how the department will be changing and what opportunities will be available when ____ retires this summer?”
    I have thought about it and I would really like to be considered for a job that i know will be open (but is not yet), but I’m nervous about putting myself out there and not sure how to start the conversation.

    2. Jennie*

      Love your name and your script. Talk now and let your boss know what your goals are so that they are not succession planning without you.

    3. Artemesia*

      Set up an appointment to talk about your career and place in the organization so you have some unhurried time to sit down and talk with the boss and your general opening statement is perfect. People who get ahead tend to be people who take this initiative and this definitely goes triple for women.

  74. Footfeet*

    I have plantar fasciitis (PF) and my feet have felt so much better over break because I could wear my sneakers instead of real shoes. But now it’s back to the office and I have to get back to office shoes. Any other PF sufferers who have had good luck with women’s office shoes? I have a pair of mary jane Naots that work okay, but I’d like more of a loafer/flat, where the top of my foot is not exposed.. I’ve seen Vionics often recommended, but I didn’t see a style that was what I wanted.

    1. Manders*

      Have you tried shoe inserts? I don’t have PF but I can’t wear most styles of shoes with flat, hard soles because I have flat arches. Store-bought brands work for me, but a podiatrist might be able to create something more specialized for you.

    2. fposte*

      Everybody’s feet are different, but I have *loved* Clarks Cloudsteppers line. They’re not just cushioned but super lightweight, which was a big thing for me when my feet were doing poorly.

      1. Struck By Lightning*

        I second the Clarks! I have wide-ish feet with low arches and Clarks have saved me. I buy mine at sporting goods stores (Scheels, Cabelas) because they seem to have more supportive styles than the departments stores do of the same brands.

      2. periwinkle*

        I third the Cloudsteppers! I’ve got a pair of ankle boots which have supported and coddled my poor feet through most of last year, to the point where I’m sure some colleagues wondered if I owned any other footwear.

    3. Emac*

      Have you looked at the Walking Company website? If you click on Shop by Comfort, they have a category for plantar fasciitis relief. I have a chronic foot problem as well and love their ABEO line that has integrated orthotics for different problems. They have a lot of styles, too.

    4. Middle School Teacher*

      Vionics also sells just the inserts. I have a pair and I used to wear them all the time (before I got proper orthotics).

    5. Cowwomaninhiding*

      I was suffering with PF a while back and found online some stretching exercises that I could do when I stand up from my desk . I also had my feet zoned and treated by a chiropractor. At night I rub the sore spots and stretch them some more. I also make sure that I don’t sleep with my toes pointed (like a ballerina on her toes with lets those muscles on your calves tighten up and cause the pain). Once I started pay attention to my feet, they felt better. Good shoes help a ton. I do like Clarks and there are other brands. Make sure you put inserts in and find shoes with padding and good arch support. No high heels, flats or short heels only. Good luck.

    6. NeverNicky*

      When I had PF, sneaker type shoes were uncomfortable but lowish wedge heels were fine, and smart for work. I think mine came from Clarks

    7. Emmie*

      Mine got so bad that I had to wear gym shoes with professional clothes for a few months.
      – I 2nd the Clarks suggestion. They have amazing footwear.
      – Wear gym shoes with arch support all the time at home until it gets better. I have a spare pair that I wear around the house that I’ve never worn outside. They also sell orthopedic slippers too.
      – I recommend the stretches too, and rolling the feet over a tennis ball.
      – There are PF supports you can get for sleep, but I’ve never purchased them.
      – I can never wear flip flops. That’s pretty sad.
      – Wear gym shoes with arch support to run all of your personal errands. No heels.

    8. Ellen Ripley*

      Also check out the blog Barking Dog Shoes, she does a lot of reviews of shoes for various foot issues.

    9. Artemesia*

      For me the most important thing is cushioning. I find that those blue gel inserts make a huge difference in shoes other than sneakers.

    10. Piano Girl*

      I have PF and have prescription orthotics (custom-formed to my feet). My feet are also quite wide. I wore Munros (from Nordstrom) primarily. Super expensive but worth it. I also got away with some Sketchers on occasion. Good luck!

  75. Buffy Summers*

    I have two connected offices…you have to go through the front one to get to the back one. I recently moved my desk out into the front office b/c it’s much better lighting which helps me concentrate. It puts me closer to the outer door of the office, though and I’m having a bit of annoyance.
    I have a cow0rker who stomps everywhere she goes. She walks really fast and every time she goes past my door she jars my monitors and it’s just incredibly annoying. I actually spoke to her about it and asked her to please slow down because she was causing my whole desk to shake when she walks by and her answer was, “I used to be a waitress so that’s why I walk that way. It’s just the way I am – I can’t walk any other way.”
    Honestly, you can walk swiftly without stomping. Which she does. With every step. Our office building has hardwood floors and is over 100 years old, so that’s why it’s so loud and obnoxious.
    So that’s my annoying coworker story. It’s pretty petty I’m sure. Anyone else have an annoying coworker you’re dealing with?

    2. Kathenus*

      Not what you’re asking, but would an area rug or carpet runner outside your door maybe help with softening the impact of her stomping?

    3. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      I was scoping out available desks to move into, and one guy said “don’t choose that one, no one sits there, it’s the bouncy cubicle”. So! It is thing that exists at least at my office, regardless of degree of stomping. Good luck. No fun feeling like you need to have a Richter Scale in your office!

  76. Sauce Panda*

    So my boss asked me and his other leaders to share our calendars with him out of the blue. He specified he wants full details and not just busy/free time.

    To me this feels like announcing “I don’t trust you are doing what you say you are doing” and feels invasive to me. I would feel different if we were using a shared calendar for some process – but it is literally just him getting access to read our appointments.

    Also it was sudden like I mentioned. I guess I don’t like that now when I block off time to work or schedule a meeting I feel like I have to be aware of the perception of someone reading that appointment out of context and making a judgement on if I am spending my time wisely. And even then I don’t think it would bother me if we had any sort of regular 1 on 1s to discuss performance and meetings if he were concerned about time management.

    Readers what do you think? Is this weird or not?

    1. Uncivil Engineer*

      In my office, it is not unusual to share the full details of our calendars. My boss and my staff can see my calendar and I can see theirs. If there is something I don’t want them to see, I mark it private.

      1. Lynca*

        This is what we do. The reason we do it boils down to being able to effectively schedule meetings with each other rather than boss or grandboss seeing what we’re doing or passing judgment on time management. It can be impossible to coordinate with Grandboss and lower bosses without knowing whether they’re available.

        And private calendar use is just marked private or out of office for any leave.

        1. Sauce Panda*

          The thing I don’t get is – the previous system does this. Why do you need to see my meeting and appointment titles and agendas to schedule a meeting instead of just my free/busy time?

          1. Mrs Kate*

            Because your boss probably wants to know if s/he can schedule over a “busy” block. If you have an internal meeting and he needs to schedule you at a client meeting, he can see that from looking At your appointments vs a back-and-forth email exchange.

            I managed a team of 6 directors and 3 of them did this voluntarily- it was hugely helpful. I didn’t require that thenother 3 did it, but the 3 that did tended to do things like schedule blocks of work time, have lots of standing recurring meetings etc.

    2. Murphy*

      I would be curious about the change, but I sometimes wish I could see more detail on people’s calendars. Maybe he just wants to know if you’re in a meeting down the hall versus out of the office for the afternoon?

    3. Shadow*

      Depends. Could also be that it helps boss know what to expect when he needs something. Ie he may wait to call you if he can see ur in a meeting or he might look somewhere else for a quick answer if he knows ur tied up in a meeting.

    4. Kathenus*

      I found out after about a year or so in my position that the departmental admin had full access to my (and others at my level presumably) calendar, which was a surprise to me. She uses it to let our mutual boss know if someone’s free or not and if not where they are/what they’re doing – since I hear these comments between them at times. Not that I had things on it that I shouldn’t, but I’ve never had this situation at past positions so was surprised that it was done without discussion. Seems to just be the culture in our department that I was unaware of.

    5. Struck By Lightning*

      Most of the offices I’ve worked in we are required to have our calendars set so everyone can see the full details rather than free/busy. Along with that is the assumption that if your calendar doesn’t show you as having something scheduled, you are available for a meeting at that time. It makes scheduling things in a busy office SO much easier. If the Big Boss needs person x, y, & z and he can see that they are in a low-priority webinar versus in a key meeting with an official, he can request a conflicting meeting.

      Caveat: we are allowed, and expected, to set personal appointments such as medical appointments to free/busy for that particular event at the time of creation.

      1. Sauce Panda*

        That’s a good point. I haven’t had this in offices I work in before and it was requested suddenly with no explanation so got my eyebrows raised. I still don’t see a business reason to see the agendas of those meetings though….

  77. Frustrated*

    What to do with a co-worker who takes advantage of their FMLA. I have a co-worker who has had health issues in the past so has FMLA status. Typically we are an understandable compassionate group, but he takes advantage, calling in ill almost 2 or 3 days every other week or so. He has used his sick time up typically by the end of January. This would all be fine, but the sick days always seem to happen on the weekends or when we are particularly busy. Bc of the nature of out work, we cover for each other taking clients as they come in. So we essentially aren’t covering for just the days called out, but until the particular project closes. It also happens that he is really disorganized and doesn’t update anything on their current work daily (always playing on the phone or reading), as we should be. The person covering is stuck taking their new clients and also basically redoing all current work. It is frustrating that whoever happens to be covering for him ends up doing all this. We have to respond to everything within 1 business day, so typically we could leave it. But with this guy, you never know if he is calling out that next day as well. Also, it should be noted he never puts as much effort into covering other individuals work when they are out as well. Management is well aware and has admitted that there are certain frustrations for covering for this guy, but beyond that nothing seems to get done. Mind you, management isn’t talking about what they are doing, so we are just basing this on the trends we are seeing. What would you do in this instance? We have tried making notations for how things should be updated etc, so it doesn’t all fall on us, but nothing is working here.

    2. Anony*

      There are really two separate issues here: calling out and not using the correct process to note what he has done. The first might be a legitimate health problem. The timing you note could indicate that stress aggravates his health condition rather than shirking. I would leave that one alone. The best you can do for that is to work on a one day delay when it comes to covering for him since you said that is possible. Essentially, provide minimal necessary coverage if he is out to minimize its impact on you.

      The second part is more addressable. If you are covering for him and his minimal notes are forcing you to redo his work, email him about it and cc your boss. Focus on the effect it has on your work.

      Your goal should not be on your coworker being a slacker but rather on minimizing the effect he has on your work.

      1. Kathenus*

        Great answer. I was thinking along these lines when I read this, you described the perfect way to handle it.

  78. HealthyBreakfastGal*

    I have a breakfast-in-the-office dilemma for all of you.

    I work in a small, open plan office, and we have eight employees working here, including myself. All of my coworkers live close by, which means they all get to have breakfast at their own houses before coming to the office, but because I live literally hours away, I usually have breakfast when I arrive, on my desk, because it makes no sense to me to have breakfast before I leave my apartment at 5am.

    We get a meal card at my job, but there isn’t enough money in it to pay for both breakfast AND lunch (the card is made to cover just lunch), so I usually bought cheap, unhealthy snacks for breakfast in a supermarket that’s situated between my bus stop and the office building. But since I’m trying to lose weight and a couple of coworkers had already undergone lengthy diets making use of the office’s kitchen – it’s in the corner of our open plan and it has a sink, a coffee pot, a tea kettle, a microwave, and a minifridge, plus cutlery, plates, glasses, coffee pods, tea bags, and lots and lots of sugary snacks like crackers, cookies and candy – I decided to start cooking myself a healthy breakfast at the office. I bought eggs, left them in the fridge, and every morning I’d open the window behind the microwave and cook myself an omelet. They were very good and doing that was helping me a lot.

    However, after about three weeks of doing this, one day my coworkers arrived and I noticed one of them aggressively opening every single window in the office, despite the fact that they never ever do that, and it made me realize I’d forgotten to open the window while cooking my egg that morning. However, they didn’t say anything to me and I kept quiet. A couple of hours later, my manager asked to talk to me in private, and explained that lots of people complained to him about the smell of eggs in the office and thus he said I couldn’t cook my eggs anymore. I was upset because that was the very first time I heard anything about people disliking the smell, but agreed, and I’m now back to “what can I have for breakfast that is healthy AND cheap” dilemma. I’ve thought about cooking the eggs at home and having them here, but I hate cold eggs, and warming them up in the microwave would result in the same egg-smell issue, so nowadays I’m either skipping breakfast completely or snacking crackers with a cup of green tea, which… isn’t ideal.

    Now, here’s the thing: it has been a few months, and I’m still pretty bummed about it. These people all earn a lot more than I do, and they could easily pay for their $2k diet pills and their fancy shakes and bring them from home since they only had to face a 30 minutes car drive, but I obviously can’t afford to do that. I’m the only one at the office for hours at a time every single day – I get there at 8am and people usually start arriving between 9:30-11am – and I can’t even have the luxury of having my own healthy breakfast while I’m here all by myself. Am I right to be mad at people for the fact that they feel like they’re entitled to dictate what I can or can’t cook in the shared kitchen because of a smell that dissipates in a matter of minutes with the windows open? Or do you guys think I’m being pretty inconsiderate of everyone else in my office? Am I overreacting?

      1. brrrr*

        They’re being ridiculous. I hate the concept of eggs in the microwave but it’s the height of self absorption to tell someone who is making less than I am that they cannot make something in the microwave before I am even in the office.
        Can you point out to manager that you’re in 90 minutes or more before the next person and that it was an accident once or twice to not open the windows and that you’ll make a point to open the windows?
        Otherwise – it may or may not work for you but I find that hot cereal is an easy thing to make in a microwave that is relatively healthy.

    2. fposte*

      I really hate having a good habit frustrated, and I love my office breakfast routine myself.

      But eggs really are pretty smelly, and I don’t think it’s out of line to be asked not to cook them in the office kitchen; clearly the smell doesn’t completely dissipate, because people are noticing it. Whether those people have expensive diet shakes or not isn’t really part of the issue; though I understand it can make things feel rawer, you can be rich as Croesus and still ask somebody not to microwave fish.

      Do you want some alternative breakfast suggestions or is this more about the office dynamic? I think there are a lot of possibilities aside from eggs that might give you some morning satisfaction, if not the same.

      1. OP*

        it’s both tbh! I wanted to know if they were being reasonable and what else I could maybe eat. reading back, I realized that the thing that annoyed me the most was that they didn’t talk to me before, so that I could maybe find a way around the smell, they just complained one time – with my boss instead of me! – and that was final.
        people have suggested overnight oats and peanut butter. the oats I think won’t leave a smell, but I’m not sure how they fall into the “cheap” category, and I was worried the peanut butter might have a smell a tad too strong. we’ll see though; I’m gonna risk it and see how it goes. thanks!

        1. fposte*

          I’m also a big fan of morning cheese; it travels well and stores easily, and it doesn’t need heating (though I’ve gone for broke and melted it on top of crispbread some days).

          I think it’s pretty common for a smell complaint on a familiar offender like eggs just to result in a ban, tbh; it’s not considered to be a big deal to exclude a food that’s causing a problem. I think Cheery-O makes a reasonable point about talking to your boss about possible mitigation if eggs are really key for for you, but most food bans draw on the notion that there are a lot of other foods in the world.

          What’s likely to be offensive where you are is both cultural and individual, so it’s hard to predict. But eggs are rich in sulfur, which is really pungent, and when you heat anything, the scent is going travel more and linger longer. I therefore wouldn’t think peanut butter would have the same problem. In the U.S., I’d say stay away from cooking fish, eggs, and cruciferous vegetables like broccoli and cauliflower. There are always other things that people dislike and may well start listing :-), but I would consider that to be the basic office-kitchen etiquette for a new employee.

        2. NaoNao*

          Well, a big tub of rolled oats (not the quick oats) is I think…$4? or so? And you can get dozens of servings of overnight oats out of it, so it is budget friendly if you look at it that way!
          Perhaps a “protein pack” like they sell in the deli/meat department would do: it’s usually cheese and cured meats with crackers. You could supplement with yoghurt or fruit or granola?

        3. DDJ*

          Cooking eggs at home and then microwaving to heat will have WAY less smell. You can make mini “quiches” if you’re into that sort of thing. Eggs, whatever veggie is cheap, whatever meat is cheap, some cheese if you like cheese, mix it all up in a big batch, pour into a greased, non-stick muffin tin (regular size or mini), bake until the eggs are cooked through. Boom. Oh! Season with onion/garlic/herbs, whatever you like.

          You can make a big batch all at once, they freeze awesomely, and when you reheat in the microwave, the smell is more a “general food” smell than an “egg” smell. Some of my faves:
          Greek: sundried tomato (chopped small, a little goes a long way), frozen spinach, olives, feta cheese, garlic, oregano.
          Basic: bacon, onion, cheese (mozza, cheddar, whatever’s on sale).
          Leftover: chicken (or turkey), broccoli, red pepper, cheese.
          Veggie drawer clearout: broccoli, cauliflower, peppers, mushrooms, onion, garlic, whatever herbs I feel like.

          As someone who likes (and is used to) a pretty high-protein breakfast, see how the oats go, but you might find yourself feeling hungry a lot quicker than you would if you had eggs. Good luck! My other suggestion would be reheated leftovers. What you have around. I’ve eaten chicken and green beans for breakfast, it’s an awesome breakfast!

    3. LCL*

      Well, objectively, eggs stink like ass when they are being cooked. If the ventilation is bad there isn’t much you can do. Your feelings are your own, you can be mad or not and none of use can tell you what you should think about it. If you choose to ascribe bad motives to your officemates (dictating to you) or to you (being inconsiderate of others and overreacting) the whole situation will continue to make you mad, probably.

      This week I made eggs at home. Stirred up raw eggs with spice, poured into a muffin tin, put a piece of ham in each and topped with cheese. Baked at 400 for 20 minutes (a bit too long I think), packaged them two to a ziplock baggie and took them to work. Microwaved for 30 seconds, no egg smell. Nobody will know you are eating this unless you tell them.

      Or, if you eat beef, slice some cheap steak thin by butterflying it, season heavily, barbecue or broil it, pack it into ziplocs and microwave it in the morning.

      Or, if you aren’t going carb free, scramble up a batch of eggs at home. Wrap some in a tortilla, microwave them at work, again no egg smell.

      1. OP*

        I think it might be the ventilation that’s bad; I had a couple of coworkers who were not at all bothered by the smell, like me, but I guess what annoys me is how the ones who were annoyed never talked to me about it and basically gave my boss an ultimatum that I should stop making them. the tortilla idea actually sounds good tho! I might try that and see if the smell persists. steak unfortunately wouldn’t fall into the cheap options, but I could maybe put some leftover steak in my tortilla egg wrap. thanks for the suggestions!

      2. Anony*

        I agree. In my experience, reheating eggs in the microwave only causing a smell if your overheat it. Another option would be to try cold hard boiled eggs. I can’t stand cold scrambled eggs, but cold hard boiled eggs are fine for me.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      So you were cooking your egg before 8 am, and the office still smelled at 9:30? (I’m assuming they’re complaining that it smelled every day, not just the one day you forgot to open the window.) That seems like an extra smelly egg, or extra sensitive coworkers. But if your omelet truly was making the whole office smell, I don’t think it’s awful for your coworkers to complain, no matter how much money they make.

      Anyway. Your breakfast options aren’t eggs or nothing – that’s a false dichotomy. I eat breakfast at work every workday, without ever cooking an egg in the office microwave. If you can buy a carton of eggs to leave in the fridge, you could easily buy other things – yogurt, fruit, cheese, peanut butter, lunch meat, oatmeal for overnight oats, etc.

      1. OP*

        I’ve tried bringing fruit, but it never filled me very much, and I always got hungry pretty quickly. unsweetened yogurt is much to sour for me, and I was worried people might complain about the smell of peanut butter. but I might do a test-run with the oatmeal. I know the US has some pretty cool instant oatmeals, but we don’t have that around here, so I might have to get creative, but I think I can do it :)

        1. Anony*

          Peanut butter has less of an odor than microwaved eggs. I would try it. The worst thing that happens is they complain again and at that point you can point out to your boss that they are making it extremely difficult for you to have a healthy and affordable breakfast and that you have to get in too early to eat at home. They might back down or offer some alternative.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          You need protein to feel full. Oats do have some, and they’re very cheap. They can be microwaved. If you buy a container of oats, it’s much cheaper and healthier than the instant kind, which is usually packed with sugar. You can add your own supplements (nuts, fruit, cinnamon, etc.) in whatever amounts you like. I took a 1/3 cup scoop of oats and added brown sugar and schlepped it dry to work, then added water and cooked in the microwave (be careful, it makes a mess if you let it bubble over). Then I ate it at my desk with some fruit and my tea.

          Almond butter is less smelly than peanut butter.
          Avocado toast, if you have a toaster at the office.
          Cheese and crackers.
          Pre-hardboiled eggs smell less than cooking eggs does.

          This from someone experienced at eating at her desk. :)

        3. Observer*

          Try yogurt with fruit – the fruit may sweeten it. Also, if you add a slice or two of WW bread, or a roll that makes for a nicely filling meal. And, since you can leave food there, you could get a loaf of bread and keep in in the freezer, just defrosting the slices you are going to eat. That shouldn’t smell up the office.

    5. Goya de la Mancha*

      It’s a fine line. You have a right to eat your foods, and they should be understanding – while you have to be understanding of the open office and people with sensitive sniffers.

      Oatmeal, cereal & milk, english muffins/bagels, hard boiled eggs (not sure if that is considered “cold eggs” for you), peanut butter, crackers, cheese, fruit, yogurt, they all travel well or can be left at the office.

      1. OP*

        thanks for the suggestions! I think I’m gonna try the peanut butter; I mentioned above that I’ve been worried about them also leaving some sort of smell in the office, but I won’t know if I don’t try.

        1. Goya de la Mancha*

          No matter what you eat, it will have some sort of smell :) Oatmeal with peanut butter, banana, & chocolate chips (just a few) is my go to breakfast during the winter!

          I think you can try what you are comfortable with, if they take it to your boss again though instead of you, I would start standing up for myself – because then they are just being petty & immature.

    6. CheeryO*

      I have to admit that the smell of eggs makes me want to vomit, but if the window trick was working, it miiiight be worth bringing up again with your manager (YMMV – I have a fairly casual/friendly relationship with my manager, so I could see giving it a shot). Could you do something like overnight oats? There are tons of options to make them more nutrient-dense/filling (fruit, Greek yogurt, nuts, protein powder, peanut butter, etc.). Sorry if that’s something you’ve already considered.

      1. OP*

        don’t apologize, I appreciate all suggestions people gave me here, even if it’s things I’ve already considered. unfortunately we don’t have overnight oats here (I had them when I was in the US for training last year and loved it) and the ones we do have fall pretty far into the “expensive” category, but I think I might be able to find some sort of oats recipe that I can make and doesn’t smell. my usual oatmeal recipe would involve heating the oats in the microwave with milk, so I’m pretty sure that would also leave a lingering smell, which was why I was so frustrated with the eggs thing – what CAN I cook that wouldn’t leave a smell? and are all smells a no-no or was it just the eggs? I have no idea. it’s gonna be a hit and miss until I figure out something that they won’t complain about I guess. thank you again!

        1. CheeryO*

          Oh, just to clarify, overnight oats and instant oatmeal are two different things – overnight oats involve putting regular oatmeal and milk together in a jar in the fridge overnight with whatever extra stuff you want to add. I do think if you wanted to do regular oatmeal in the microwave, that would be fine. I’d be shocked if that left any lingering odor. Anyway, good luck figuring out a solution!

        2. purple orchid pot*

          Sorry, what do you mean “don’t have overnight oats”? I know some brands sell a product like this but you can make them from regular oats without too much trouble: place about a third of a cup of oats (rolled or instant, ideally not steel-cut) in a sealable bowl with enough milk and/or water and/or yogurt to make them a little soupier than you would like to eat them, then add dry fruits or nuts or whatever other toppings and seal the bowl, place in fridge overnight. In the morning, voila! Tasty cold oat-based breakfast with no smell (though I am another one who does not agree with “objectively eggs are stinky”).

        3. AvonLady Barksdale*

          I would bet it’s the egg alone, not that your breakfast smells. Cooked eggs, especially in a small space, can pack quite an unpleasant punch. I wouldn’t say the same thing about toast and peanut butter, which dissipates pretty quickly in my experience. There are several protein-based breakfast options you can try. The overnight oats someone suggested, or yogurt and granola. Bread or rye crackers with peanut butter or cream cheese. The eggs-in-a-muffin-tin someone discussed above.

          I also sympathize with your co-workers about not talking to you directly. I’m not saying they’re right or that they went about it the best way, but it sounds like they didn’t want to disturb you or hurt your feelings, like they felt it was a private and somewhat embarrassing issue.

        4. zora*

          Also any grains can be a good filling breakfast cereal if oats aren’t common where you are. Quinoa is a good one, and amaranth, millet. Any whole grain you can find in bulk should be cheap but filling.

          And no, I don’t think a grain with milk will be as smelly as eggs, so I wouldn’t worry about cooking them. What I sometimes do is cook a big pot of grains at home over the weekend, and bring in small amounts of pre-cooked, add some nuts/fruit/milk in a bowl and warm in the microwave. I think that should work fine, even for the people who don’t like the egg smell.

          And I also agree that the people complaining to your boss before saying anything to you is annoying, but try to take a breath and let that go, because being frustrated is only hurting you, not them at this point. I know it’s harder said than done, but I am validating your feelings!! Good luck!

        5. Rusty Shackelford*

          As others have pointed out, you *do* have overnight oats, since it’s just regular rolled oats (not steel-cut) soaked in milk overnight (and if you don’t like your oats cold, you can nuke them in the morning). But also, keep in mind that all food smells are not equal. Even if your peanut butter smelled as strongly as eggs (which would be some extra pungent peanut butter), it wouldn’t smell as *offensive* as eggs. Same goes for cooked oatmeal.

        6. Bagpuss*

          Would it be possible to get a wide-mouthed thermos/vacuum flask, if you are worried about the smell of using the microwave?

          If you made porridge / oatmeal at home, you could have something hot without having to cook at the office at all. (And if you found it wasn’t quite hot enough by the time you arrived, you could make it a bit thicker than normal then add some hot water / hot milk when you got the the office, and all you’d be heating would be the water or milk.

          I don’t think an omelette would be very nice after three hours in a thermos, but if you were willing to eat a cold breakfast some of the time you could make frittata and take that to eat cold (which would give you the protein etc you get with your omelette)

        7. Hildegard Vonbingen*

          I microwave regular old Quaker Oats in the microwave. Four to five minutes – and I’m not talking the quick-cooking oats, either. They’re cheap, they have little no odor, and they’re filling. You can take them to work in a plastic bag, along with a measuring device for the oats and water.

    7. Emilitron*

      You mentioned bringing cooked eggs in from home to warm up in the microwave, but discarded that idea because it would be the same smell – but you’d be running the microwave less time, and it might actually smell less, I think you should give it a try. And frankly half of their problem may be psychosomatic, and the concept of “heating up breakfast” smells much better than the concept of “cooking an omellette in the microwave”, so it would be a compromise option, a gesture of good faith on your part that still allows you hot eggs for breakfast.

      1. fposte*

        The thing is, she’s been told not to cook eggs by her manager. I really wouldn’t try just to cook eggs a different way now.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          I agree. “I’m not cooking them, I’m just reheating them” is very much letter-but-not-intent-of-the-law.

    8. stej*

      Not commenting on eggs and their smelliness or lack thereof — BUT my breakfast is 4% fat Siggi’s yogurt and it is freaking delicious and pretty filling, especially with chia seeds.

      It runs about $1.5-2 apiece where I am, and is worth it to me. I buy a bunch, esp on sale, and bring them in a cooler with me at the beginning of the week.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Years ago, I started eating Greek yogurt for and with a lot of meals. I was spending about $10/week– this was before Greek yogurt was popular enough to be distributed as store/generic brands, plus I lived in New York–and that was too much for my meager budget. I started making my own yogurt, and it was SO much cheaper. So that’s another option. “Yogurt with stuff” is a great breakfast option if you don’t have to avoid dairy.

        1. Jules the Third*

          My husband made lactose-free greek yogurt for me and the kid for a couple of years. Tastes so much better than any store brand, and you can try different cultures to see which one you like best – the culture makes a huge difference.

          Since the kid started taking lactase pills, we went back to store-bought and taste tested our way through six to eight different variations. Siggi is the best, 8 of 10, with home made 10. Harris Teeter store brand (southern US grocery chain) is a 7 of 10 for 1/4 the cost, so that’s our standard now.

    9. MLiz*

      Well. As someone who is very sensitive to smells and has real issues when my coworker smokes hours prior to us meeting that day, I sort of can understand your coworkers (sorry). Also, while egg smell doesn’t hang so much in the air, the fat droplets from frying do smell a lot past the actual meal being gone. I had a coworker (different job) who ate fish at her desk first thing in the morning. It was cold, though, and the smell really was gone after a few minutes so I never said anything and left the room while she was eating (I like fish but first thing in the morning it was making me gag).

      I have a super long commute as well at the moment and have breakfast at the office and have become very partial to overnight oats with yogurt and fruits. Now I understand you might want/need a warm breakfast, especially after three(!) hours commute, but you could make them with water or something and then heat them in the microwave. Or something else that isn’t as smell/splatter intensive and that heats up nicely in the microwave?

      I understand this is very annoying and I’m not saying you’re overreacting, because it’s really important to feel good and full and eat healthy, but I sort of get your coworkers a little.

    10. Susan K*

      Microwaved eggs are pretty stinky. I have some coworkers who microwave eggs at work and I hate it, although it isn’t a big enough deal for me to complain to my manager about it. I do think it would be inconsiderate to continue to cook something that has a smell that you know bothers multiple people. Most people consider it to be common courtesy when sharing a kitchen space to avoid certain foods with strong odors.

      You said you are open to other breakfast suggestions, but how about some logistical suggestions? First suggestion: if it is really important for you to eat eggs for breakfast, can you try having breakfast at home, even though it is really early? Of course that means you will probably get hungry before your normal lunch time, but then you can take an early lunch. Or maybe bring a healthy (but non-smelly) snack to tide you over between breakfast and lunch.

      Another option: you said your meal card isn’t enough to cover breakfast and lunch. How about using the meal card to buy breakfast at work (assuming eggs, or something else that would meet your breakfast needs, are available) and bringing lunch from home instead?

    11. Gertrude*

      I bring oatmeal and buy insulated cups and eat that almost every day. I also have brought cereal that I keep at my desk and kept a small carton of milk in the fridge. I have made homemade breakfast bars. I have eaten whole grain toast with avocado or almond butter. I eat a banana or other fruit in the morning as well. I’ve also done greek yogurt with honey or overnight oats. I think there are a bunch of options!

    12. Liz2*

      Yes they are being petty, but it is eggs and it is what it is. Hard boil a dozen and bring in a bag every week to go through. There’s also avocado and bacon, and breakfast tacos made with non eggs. Sorry this is really annoying.

      1. tigerlily*

        It’s funny to me that hard boiled eggs have been suggested as a substitute a few different times. To me, hard boiled eggs – especially ones someone hard boiled days ago – are a MUCH stronger and far more unpleasant smell. In fact, I would never have thought of scrambled eggs as being a universally known unpleasant food smell (like fish).

        So interesting what’s good for some people and terrible for others. :)

        Personally, my go to in the morning is peanut butter and a little honey on toast. Tasty and filling.

        1. Windchime*

          Peanut butter on whole-wheat toast is my go-to breakfast, too. I leave the house at 5 AM and have a travel mug of tea with me, eating my toast on the road. If I don’t feel like doing toast, then I take a bagel to work, toast it there, and eat it with cream cheese that I keep in the work fridge. Mmmmmmm.

    13. Jules the Third*

      Smells can be a big trigger, and some people are more sensitive to them than others. Unless you have some other indication that your coworkers are not professional, you should trust that their reactions are legitimate. You should not be angry because your convenience and preferences cause them discomfort, just as they should not get angry about your cooking. Express your wants then look for compromises that let everyone use the shared space.

      Alternative options – an egg sandwich eaten outside the office, protein bars, oatmeal, some dairy variant. Melted mozzarella or cheddar on toast + banana is a well-rounded, easy, hot meal. Ham or spinach make comforting or healthy toppers. PB + banana or apple is healthy and yummy. Speaking of smoothies, PB Chocolate Banana is a great smoothie flavor. Any chance your company would spring for or allow you to bring a blender? Plain greek yogurt + fruit = serious win.

      And frankly, there’s nothing wrong with a bowl of cereal, health wise, as long as it’s not loaded with sugar and you only have one serving. Plain bran flakes + plain raisins + milk = lots of fiber, a little protein, and a touch of sweet. Lactose intolerant? There’s lactose-free milk and cottage cheese.

      I love omelet / fritatta variants myself, but outside your house, you have to work with the constraints of the people who share your space, and smells are a reasonable and common constraint.

    14. The Ginger Ginger*

      Can you hard-boil eggs at home and bring them in? By the time you finish your commute, they should at least be room temperature instead of cold (because I’m with you on not liking cold eggs). I eat mine sliced on a couple crackers, with a cheese wedge and hummus. Add a fruit like grapes or apple. Maybe some yogurt? You won’t have to heat anything; it’s all pretty tasty but still healthy; and you still get the protein benefit of eggs.

      1. AcademiaNut*

        Also, if you think outside the standard breakfast food mold, it gets easier to come up with filling, easy to transport meals.

        Sandwiches might be a good option – cream cheese and fruit, peanut butter and jelly, ham and cheese, roast beef and mustard, cheese and pate, cheese and salami, cheese and bacon, avocado and bacon, sausage and cheese.

        Fresh fruit with cream cheese dip and a handful of nuts. Mix yoghurt with some jam or honey and granola. Raw vegetables with hummus or tatziki. Room temperature roasted vegetable salad with feta cheese and pine nuts. Cheese and crackers and some fruit. Cheese and chutney on bread or crackers.

        I agree with other posters that cooking eggs does tend to linger, so your coworkers may well have a legitimate complaint. I’m grateful that I work with people who are accustomed to stinky tofu, though – there’s nothing you can microwave (including fish or durian), that smells worse than stinky tofu on a summer day.

    15. KAZ2Y5*

      OP, what about having sandwiches for breakfast? Or soup? Or any other type of lunch/supper food you would like. I work the night shift, so I have all kinds of food at all kinds of odd hours. I’m not sure if you have a lunch tote you can bring every day or are just looking for food you can store in your office. But think beyond just breakfast food and you might find something you really like. Good luck!

    16. ..Kat..*

      I have recently discovered Hydro Flask (there are other brands as well, such as Yeti). These flasks keep hot foods hot and cold foods cold for hours. You could scramble eggs at home, put them in the Hydro Flask, and eat them at work without the cooking or reheating smells.

    17. Kuododi*

      I personally think your coworkers are being little prissy snots!!! But that’s just me. On the subject of alternative breakfast options… I thought I saw somewhere else on this thread a mention of breakfast burritos. I am also a big fan…my wonderful sister suggested that to me. Once a week she does an assembly line deal where she makes a big batch of scrambled eggs, gets lost carb tortillas, cheese and some cayenne pepper for a little kick. Then she rolls up a batch of the burritos, wraps them in foil, freezes them and there is about a week or two worth of breakfast to go. Couple of minutes in the microwave no smell no muss no fuss!!!

  79. lionelrichiesclayhead*

    TLDR: How to remain professional in a more casual work environment?

    I moved from a very buttoned-up environment in finance to a Fortune 50 retail company that has a much more relaxed environment and is a great fit in general for my personality. The problem is that I think I’ve gone a little too far over to the relaxed side and feel like I need to reign in my professional behavior a bit. There have been no complaints and I actually get a lot of great feedback about how I put people at ease and am so easy to work with. Which is great, but there are times when I feel like I may be close to crossing the line and I want to get a handle on that before it actually is a problem. I would say that sometimes I may be too casual with a business partner, or may joke around too much, or may even be too casual or overly blunt about expressing criticism.

    Does anyone have any tips or books to read that may help me reset my professional demeanor? On one hand I want to stay open and pleasant to work with but I don’t want it to come at a cost of lacking professionalism.

  80. Ms. FS*

    I manage a small team in a equally small organization that serves the big tech industry players. We have custom software that tech players input data and then that data is made available to the public for search. In the past, I’ve been responsible for managing all the processes and development of the software (through our software developer), but recently we decided to do a big overhaul and rebuild the database/software from scratch. Despite my expertise in this, my CEO insisted she would project manage it. However, I’m still the communication lead to the outside world about it. So I’m talking about a timeline that my CEO has insisted we will make without being involved at all with the project management, but based on my knowledge of the database and the work involved, I think we aren’t going to even come close to the timeline she has made us communicate outward. This is making me feel like I will be inevitably blamed for a potential fail to launch on time as communicated, since the whole tech industry has only seen me talk about the software and know that I managed it in the past. Nobody knows (not even my own colleagues) that I am not managing the project because it just doesn’t make sense, since I was managing it in the past. How do you think I should deal with the likely brutal criticism I will get from big tech folks? Should I say I wasn’t project managing? I feel like that’s an excuse but at the same time I am not responsible at all – my CEO has not been doing tight project managing and therefore the project is off timeline. Large companies are arranging entire international teams to get their data ready for input according to our timeline, so this is a big f*ing deal.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Can’t any of your communications mention that the CEO is the project manager? Seems pretty natural to me.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      I will admit that I am way out of my league here, but parts of your letter seemed similar to other letter writers with bosses who are hard to reach, and so the work flow was slowing down, or stopping, because the direct reports couldn’t get their bosses to respond in a timely way. One of the strategies that was suggested for them was to say in an email (because these bosses were rarely in the office) “To keep Project X on our delivery timeline of [date here], I am going to [action here] unless I hear from you otherwise.” I’m not entirely sure what your version of this would be, unless it was something like “Since I learned from the developers today that the widgets for Software ABC will not be ready until [date], I am going to announce a revision of our timeline for launch to take this into account. The current target date is unfortunately unworkable because the company doesn’t have sufficient resources and personnel available to make the original date. Let me know if you have any questions.” I don’t know if you feel comfortable enough to take the bull by the horns like this, but it does seem like your CEO is behaving aspirationally, rather than realistically. And you are being set up to take the fall for her, which concerns me. Even if you can’t yank her thinking back into Reality, at least you can try make it as clear and direct as possible that she’s on a collision course with Reality, and lay out what the consequences are for the company’s reputation if she insists on her original timeline. Good luck. Let us know what you decided to do.

  81. Arils*

    Just venting really. I have two co-workers AA and BB and we all work in different offices. AA does nothing all day. BB is new to this team (and by new I mean it’s been 7 months and she seems to be struggling but is trying her best).

    I took last week off; I haven’t taken any time off in the last 8 months as I just haven’t really needed/wanted to yet. Have last week off was lovely.

    Long story short, since AA and I are more senior, we take on more of the group work and I am currently working on 25 projects simultaneously. AA is working on about 8 projects (eye roll) and BB can only do about 3-5. While I was out last week a project came in from an organization I’ve worked with previously and since I was out, BB took it on for me. When I got back, she emailed me about it after I was gone for the day suggesting I should take it over. IDK why, but I got so mad. BB knows I am doing literally 5 times as much work as her …why can’t you just do this project?!!?! If it were a challenging or complicated project, I’d take it on from this point, but this project is basically an information request. I ultimately replied that I appreciated her taking this on for me and left it at that. Grumble.

  82. Listing temporary assignment on resume?*

    Jobs 1 and 3 are permanent positions in different groups. Job 2 is a temporary assignment in another group that overlaps in time with jobs 1 and 3. All jobs are at the same level and with the same company. Which of these two formats makes sense to everyone? Or do you have a suggestion for a different format that may work better?

    Teapot Designer, Group C, 2000 to present
    – Design teapot C
    Teapot Designer, Group B (temporary assignment), 1999 to 2001
    – Design teapot B
    Teapot Designer, Group A, 1990 to 2000
    – Design teapot A

    – or –

    Teapot Designer, Group C, 2001 to present
    – Design teapot C
    Teapot Designer, Group B, 1999 to 2001
    – Design teapot B
    Teapot Designer, Group A, 1990 to 1999
    – Design teapot A

    1. Emilitron*

      Your second format says that you were not doing work for group A in 1999-2000 and you were not doing work for group C in 2000-2001. Maybe they were your line of reporting on the org chart but you didn’t do any project work for those groups. Is that true?
      If that’s not true, if you were doing simultaneous projects for Groups A and B, then those dates should definitely overlap as in Format#1 – part of your skillset is working on simultaneous projects.

      But I don’t 100% like format #1. I don’t really know what “temporary assignment” means so I’m not sure what are you trying to point out. If it’s only underscoring that only being in the group for 2 years wasn’t job-hopping but part of the plan, I don’t think that’s necessary, 2 years isn’t so short, I’d just leave the parenthetical off. Or maybe you’re trying to justify why Manager B is not on your references list? I don’t know your situation, but I’m not sure the parenthetical “(temporary assignment)” helps me understand it any better.

    2. Ellen Ripley*

      I’m not sure either is needed, if it’s the same company and the same job just on different projects (especially if the dates you’ve used aren’t just randomly chosen and it was that long ago). I’d just do the usual job title, company, dates and then below explain the projects you worked on in approximate reverse chronological order. If you really want to divide it out by group/project, I’d do something like
      Teapot designer, iTeapots, 1990-present
      Group C (or project name/focus), 2000-present
      – project details
      Group B (ditto), 1999-2001
      – etc

  83. call me Katie*

    It’s been such a slow week here because of the Christmas and New Year holidays. Next week things will pick up again. If it wasn’t for AAM I would have died of boredom.

    That letter about the awful women who told everyone about her co-worker’s medical bag was nuts and kept me going all day. I hope we get an update to it soon.

    1. Summer Sun*

      Probably no update. LW said she felt attacked by commenters, and would no longer engage the group.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I hear you. I’m in the terrible position of being in a slow period while some of my colleagues are really busy, and the nature of our work means we don’t share. I’m here to help if they need something, but for the most part, these are things that they have to manage. Yesterday I worked from home because the roads were icy, and it was so nice to be able to break up the slowness with things like laundry and letting my dog out.

    3. Middle School Teacher*

      I’m on holidays and starting to get a bit bored, actually.

      The one is like to see an update on is the letter where OP had a coworker who was in a compromising position with himself.

  84. This...isn't good*

    I need some advice or words of wisdom or motivation or something because it’s That Bad.

    I’ve lost almost 50lbs and my hair is falling out from the work stress and constantly applying (500+apps over the last 2 years-I NEED to get OUT and I know desperation is bad), being rejected is starting to take a further toll on me. I live in a large city (DC) and I’m not above any job and can start immediately, so I’ve applied at temp agencies, government agencies, small and large orgs, schools, and non-profits. I don’t know many people here even though I’ve been here for years and most of my friends work in the government, so I can’t do the, “Hey, pass my resume along.”

    I mostly look for positions on indeed and linkedin. I don’t think it’s me, my cover letter, or my resume since I get phone interviews and in-person interviews (even second interviews!). My work history is fine, my education is fine (although I have no certifications), I think I interview well. I just don’t know what, if anything, I’m doing wrong and this is I don’t even know the purpose of this. I’m sure it will get better. I just needed it to get better 6 months ago. Maybe I just needed to get this off my chest.

    1. stej*

      I’m so sorry, that sounds like it really sucks. :(

      Is there anything you can do to work on your stress levels? The job search is super grueling for anyone, and spiraling just makes it all harder. Meditation, a new hobby maybe?

      I don’t want to try and offer more unhelpful suggestions, but hope things get better for you soon.

      1. This...isn't good*

        I’m trying to eat well, but I go a day or two without eating or eat once a day because my stomach always hurts and it feels like I have a lump in my throat.

        I try to sleep well, but I’m consistently up until 2-3am, tossing and turning, or (most recently) waking up sweating with a pounding heart. I go through obscene amounts of OTC sleep aids and Sleepytime tea.

        I used to take walks, but it got bitterly cold over the last few weeks and there were a few muggings before that, so I started staying home.

        I need a hobby.

    2. Jules the Third*

      This sucks – internet sympathy….

      Is there any chance you can reach out to someone who did the second interviews and ask if they have any suggestions on how to be a stronger candidate?

      Sometimes a key piece of stress is feeling helpless and out of control – any chance of taking control in other areas that will help mitigate the work stress, like building up a ‘walk away fund’ with 6mo living expenses or taking up kickboxing? If work pushes you to be ‘on’ all the time, push back – they’ll get it done without you.

      1. This...isn't good*

        “Is there any chance you can reach out to someone who did the second interviews and ask if they have any suggestions on how to be a stronger candidate?”

        I’ve thought about this, but I don’t know how to do it without looking clingy and needy or desperate. I’m going to search the archives and piece something together.

    3. MissDissplaced*

      Close but no cigar is probably one of the most frustrating things in job searching. Worse than not hearing anything at all, because it feels all that much more personal.

      It’s not just you! I have also experienced this, especially back in 2009-2011. I don’t want to make unhelpful suggestions, but its worth making a full check on a few things.

      References: have a friend call and pretend to be an employer to see what they say. Also make sure your references know you are using them and to expect inquiries,
      Ageism: Unfortunately it exists.
      Don’t know if this is a factor for you, but it is a consideration.
      Attitude: When you hate your job, your stress can seep into you attitude when you interview. I’ve personally been like this myself on a few interviews, and I wanted to kick myself after. It’s hard, but you really need to honestly assess if that is happening? If it might be, then you need to fully disengage with work on days you interview.

      No one should have so much work stress that they lose 50 pounds and their hair! Ultimately, you may just need to consider saving enough to quit, as hard as that sounds (or volunteering for a layoff, if there is downsizing).

      It’s a tough place to be in. Try to maintain your health & sanity. In the end, we all just do the best we can do and try to remain positive.
      Wish you the best on getting out of that work situation.

      1. This...isn't good*

        References: These are solid. I use the same three and I’ve known all of them for over 10 years.

        Ageism: I look a good 10 years younger than I am, my “oldest” job started in 2008, and I didn’t complete undergrad until 2014, so even my resume looks young as well.

        Attitude: I try to be mindful of this. Honestly, I’m just so happy to be out of the office and interviewing that I’m certain there’s no residual grumpiness here. I make sure to smile, laugh, and be gracious. But I’m starting to wonder if they can smell the desperation and I’m coming off anxious because that could be a problem. I wanted to cry after the most recent company chased me down for a third interview, had me meet the team, sent me the benefits package and then gave me the, “Oh, we have a few more interviews…and we’re out next week, so we’ll be in touch!” Aggggggghhhhhhhh.

        “No one should have so much work stress that they lose 50 pounds and their hair! Ultimately, you may just need to consider saving enough to quit, as hard as that sounds.”

        I know. I stuck it out the first year. It’s been the last year that I’ve upped the pressure on myself to get out because this is a horrid situation that isn’t going to change.

    4. Ellen Ripley*

      Man, that sucks. Self care is key, obviously, but on the money/job front have you tried any gig platforms, mystery shopping, that kind of thing? It could bring in a few bucks and give you additional runway to keep searching for something more permanent.

      1. This...isn't good*

        I’ve been able to get some temp weekend stuff, but nothing long-ish term (a day here, two weeks there). I’ve applied for two casual positions and gotten them, but the work is so sporadic that I can’t jump ship, but I may have to because this is way too much for me.

    5. The Ginger Ginger*

      Have you been to a doctor lately? I ask because when I went through a prolonged and seriously stressful period at Toxic Job, it actually triggered a thyroid issue for me. Common symptoms being (even more) ramped anxiety, sleeping issues, tiredness, hair loss, and rapid weight loss or gain. It could just be the stress (as if that level of stress is “just” anything”), but sometimes that type of sustained stress can trigger a treatable health issue.

      Regardless, take care of yourself and good luck!

  85. The Curator*

    Great news.
    I have been invited to Tokyo to give an lecture in April! I will be there for 10 to 14 days.
    Would welcome any travel advice. Business etiquette. I know to bring gifts for my hosts.
    Hotels, must sees, don’t miss. Anecdotes about prior travel or things that might get me in trouble are welcome.
    I will have business but also will be having days off.
    What I love in down time are mineral baths and spas.
    Of course all things education and children’s literature related.
    I know I will be there for Cherry Blossoms.

    1. ginkgo*

      If you’re into children’s lit, you must go to Crayon House in Harajuku! It’s a lovely store with the ground floor dedicated to children’s books (other floors have toys, organic cosmetics and linens, and an organic food store).

    2. ginkgo*

      Oh, and as far as baths/spas, Oedo Onsen Monogatari is a hot springs theme park in Odaiba. I haven’t been myself (they have a no-tattoos policy and I was afraid I’d be kicked out) but my friends had a great time there and it looks absolutely amazing.

    3. AcademiaNut*

      Have fun!

      Wear clothing you can comfortably sit on the floor in (for me, that means no skirts) because some restaurants have traditional seating.

      Make sure you can carry your suitcase comfortably – train stations do have elevators, but using them tends to be inconvenient, so you’ll be carting it up and down stairs a lot.

      Get a Suica card at the airport. You put money on it and use it on buses and trains, so you don’t have to worry about having the right change, or reading the subway map to figure out what value of ticket to buy. Google Maps is pretty useful for train information. Install Google translate on your phone, and pre-download the Japanese dictionary. This will let you use the camera based translation feature, which is far from perfect, but better than nothing. The regular translation can be very useful for communicating basic stuff with people.

      Hotels rooms tend to be very compact, but generally come with a tea kettle, and often a small fridge.

      I like going to Yoyogi park on a Saturday for people watching and various street performers. The Meiji shrine is in the same park area and is well worth visiting, as is Harajuku, where you can find cosplayers.

      The onsen are lovely. Generally they’re segregated by gender, and you don’t wear bathing suits. Wash thoroughly before getting in.

      Generally you don’t pour shared alcohol for yourself, so if someone refills your glass, it’s a hint that they want some more themselves, so top up their glass. Leave your glass full to avoid getting refilled.

      1. Bibliovore*

        Thank you this is very helpful advice.
        My husband and myself both do not drink alcohol. How/when would we mention this before meals or shall I email my hosts before I arrive as an FYI?
        Would skirts and leggings be acceptable business casual attire? Think Eileen Fisher.
        I am setting up meetings with arts institutions before my trip. I may need a Japanese interpreter. Would you know how I would suggest one, inquire about English language, note that I would bear the expense?

        My laisson with the hosting institution speaks excellent English as does a researcher from my collection who is a Tokyo resident. Would it be rude to ask them to accompany me? To pay for their time?

  86. PassingThrough*

    What system do you use to take notes in meetings?

    I am getting serious about productivity techniques (GTD, bullet journals), and I need some way to better organize the notes I take during meetings. These are just for my personal use, and they could be information notes, action items, notes for future planning, etc. Usually I process them immediately and rarely refer back to them again, but it would be nice to have an organizational system. What are some possibilities? And legal notepad or steno spiral? (I prefer a hardcopy system.)

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I use Jen Action notebooks (link in my reply) because I like that most of the page is a standard notebook where I can jot down notes and general info, and then I use the callout box on the margin to detail action items or special pieces of info that I don’t want to otherwise miss. I use a new page for each meeting or topic, depending on what makes the most sense. On very chaotic weeks, I use a new page for each day, to track what items/info I need for that day before moving onto the next.

  87. Different name*

    I am likely to go back to work a week in Monday after two months off sick (after some rather trying personal circumstances that I’ve been posting about on the weekend open threads).

    1) my team isn’t based in my office. I’m nervous about going back and people coming up to me and saying ooh my god you’re back what’s been going on are you ok??? Any tips for dealing with this?

    2) work are Very Keen to make reasonable adjustments to help me not go off sick again. We’ve already had an initial discussion about me shortening my hours which I’m very keen to do. But they want other suggestions. My job is an office job. My absence was not related to work but a set of shitty circumstance but I want to show willing and suggest stuff that might help but I’ve no idea what that might be. I’ll talk to my doctor and counsellor next week but if anyone has any ideas that would be brilliant.

    I won’t be able to reply till tomorrow but will read any suggestions. Thanks in advance.

    1. fposte*

      I don’t remember the other threads, but I hope this means you’re feeling better.

      On 1), be matter-of-fact. “Yup, doing great now, thanks; it’s good to be back. Is the microwave still broken?” I don’t know what the messaging was while you were out, but it’s likely that somebody said, “Different is on medical leave and expects to rejoin us in January” or something similar, so they already have the official line.

      On 2), it’s going to depend on what you do and what you were struggling with when you weren’t well. Are there any tasks you found particularly taxing or that could be less stressfully shared or timed, for instance? Seating arrangements that could be useful? Breaks that you wouldn’t otherwise get? But also it’s usually okay to say that your workday isn’t likely to be a problem if it isn’t; it doesn’t mean you’re not showing willing, and you can add that you really appreciate the concern and that if you do come up with a useful modification you’ll request it.

      1. Different name*

        I’m posting here under a different name :) my usual handle is something else!
        The problem round 1) is that it’s highly unlikely that anyone has heard any messages about me being off: I am almost certain to have seemed to Just Disappeared. There is hardly anyone from my directorate where I’m based and lots of people round me from other teams that I chat to but they don’t really know who I am or what I do. Matter of fact is probably still right though.
        Thanks re 2: seating arrangements might help. I sit opposite someone I like but that I find exhausting. If there’s an option to move that would be great but I suspect doing so might be difficult politically. We’ll see I guess.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Can you ask your boss to say something – whatever message you are comfortable with – eg that you’ve been unwell or off for personal reasons?

  88. Me--FFS*

    /rant

    This job search is so frustrating. All I can find are low-skilled, low-paid admin jobs that offer no learning, no chance for advancement, or only into areas where I would fail miserably (sales or accounting), and anything that looks promising either rejects me or doesn’t reply at all.

    The only decent jobs that relate to any of the skills I picked up at Exjob are junior tech editing jobs or proofreading, but they’re all thousands of miles away or in states I’d rather slit my throat than live in. I do not want to move from a place I hate to another place I will probably hate (politics, weather) and get stuck there like I am here. It’s a moot point anyway; I can’t afford to leave.

    All the other jobs of that nature require vast amounts of graphics skills, or they have a long list of technical skills I don’t have and cannot get from a two-week Coursera audit with no access to any of the programs they’re asking for. I can’t get access because it costs money, nor could I get up to the level they want that fast. I am in no way qualified for those positions and it’s not worth applying. None of them are in this area anyway.

    I’ve resorted to applying to receptionist jobs out of desperation. They’re low-paid, boring, aggravating, and soul-sucking, but there is nothing else. I’m overqualified for them so I don’t expect any answer. I can’t talk to anyone about this because it initiates a cascade of suggestions that show the people in question have no comprehension of my situation and make me want to run screaming into the night. One person even suggested I just pack my car with essentials and drive to a city with better job prospects. Oh okay. Right. Dude, I am BROKE. Like I really want to be arrested for vagrancy and who’s going to hire someone who looks like they slept in their car?!?! This person also recently got his dream job and will not shut up about it (and didn’t relocate to do it). And again, I cannot move right now. I had $5000 and now I have $300.

    Plus, I keep seeing jobs I applied for in places I want to live reposted again and again. Hey genius, maybe you should have hired me months ago when I had the money to move!

    GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH
    Something’s gotta give, or that something will end up being me.

    /endrant

    2. Not really a Waitress*

      I am so sorry. I have been following you search for months and my heart breaks for you. I can understand your reluctance to move to a state with different politics but I hate to see you limit yourself. I am a BRIGHT COLOR dot in a very very OTHER COLOR STATE. in the past 25 years the closest I have come is living in a swing state. I have found there is a lot of opportunity to make a change. I volunteered on the 2012 presidential campaign in my county and became involved in the local party. We made a difference!

    3. Morning Glory*

      If you want to improve graphic skills but can’t afford software like Illustrator or Photoshop, have you considered looking into free softwares? I use GIMP to edit photos and other images instead of Adobe, and there are other options.

      It may not help you with jobs that require 5+ years of Illustrator or whatever, but it could help you build a portfolio, or to start bargain-freelancing to gain experience. I started doing freelance book cover design a couple of years ago. It has earned me a grand total of $450, but it’s given me hands-on projects to develop skills better than tutorials or general lessons could.

      I’ve been following your search a while too, and hope you find something soon!

    4. AnonAndOn*

      “I can’t talk to anyone about this because it initiates a cascade of suggestions that show the people in question have no comprehension of my situation and make me want to run screaming into the night.”

      I hear you. People mean well, but they feel the need to give advice or suggestions when at times all we need is a listening ear.

  89. SL #2*

    This May, I’ll be at 3 years with this company. But looking beyond this summer and into the fall, I want to start testing the job-market waters a bit… but I can’t pinpoint why I feel this way? I like my job, the benefits are fab, I’m getting paid fairly, I adore my coworkers and my boss is excellent… I just can’t shake this restless feeling and it’s only gotten worse with the new year, like I should be striving for more than what I’ve currently got.

    1. Manders*

      I think a three-year itch is normal with any situation that feels stable but isn’t progressing toward any particular goal–jobs, school, relationships, etc. Our brains reward novelty and a sense of progress, not being consistently great at doing the same thing over and over again.

      Is there any way you can look at what you do in a new light? Is there something about your job that you can measure as quantifiable progress, even if it’s not pay or title bumps?

      1. SL #2*

        I’ve gotten raises each year and a title bump after my first year, so it’s not like I don’t have any measurable goals to reach for. I’m trying to look at the work in a new light and I’m proud of the efficiencies I have brought to the role, but I feel like I want more. My boss is aware of that and she’s really pushed me to take on work outside of my comfort zone this year, which I appreciate, but it still doesn’t feel like quite enough.

        I think I just need to determine whether this is a temporary itch I can scratch, or if it really is going to take a job change to be satisfied. I also can’t help but feel like I’m projecting some dissatisfaction with my personal life onto my work life? So my New Year’s resolution is to really get my personal life in order first while evaluating my job goals.

    2. Lil Fidget*

      Is there any opportunity for a promotion down the line where you are? If not, that may be why you’re feeling this way. I adored by prior job but knew there was nowhere to go, and over time that feeling grew and pushed me out.

      1. SL #2*

        Yep, there’s still room left for promotion here and our review period is in the summer, hence my thinking about post-summer career plans. I’ve been casually browsing job listings to pinpoint what a job worth leaving for would look like, in my mind, and while it’s not necessarily scratching the itch, I feel better having a game plan in mind.

  90. Anonymousaurus Rex*

    My partner is in the process of applying to grad school in several states and we are planning to move to wherever she gets in. I’m so nervous about a long-distance timed job search! We can’t really afford to have me out of work for long.
    (I’m currently the sole breadwinner, so we’re not able to save as much as I’d like before the move). I won’t know where we are moving until at least March when she hears from grad schools, so I’m feeling like I can’t even put feelers out in my industry yet. I’ve never been the trailing spouse before and I’m pretty unclear how to job search long distance. Any tips for staying sane in the lead up to a long-distance job hunt?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I hate moving and long-distance job searches. I think the major silver lining here is that you can give your current employer notice without any bad blood (you aren’t leaving because you hate the place—you’re leaving because your partner is going to grad school). A related silver lining is having a good reason to apply for a job long-distance. Oftentimes, long-distance applicants get the shaft in favor of local candidates. If you’re moving for a partner going to grad school, I think that does give you a slight bump in consideration over some rando from out of town.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Any chance you can work remotely for your current employer, even on a short-term basis? I lucked out when my partner and I moved for his doctorate and was able to work from home; I’m our primary breadwinner, and having that cushion made a massive difference in my peace of mind. I also applied for a few jobs remotely, and my cover letter’s first paragraph said something about how I would be relocating to the area for my partner’s PhD. I got a few interviews out of that. I also put “Relocating to New City in August 2014” on my resume, right next to my address.

      I know there’s a lot of uncertainty at this point, but can you narrow it down to a few cities where she’s applying and start there? You can at least get a feel for what types of jobs are listed in those cities and what your chances are.

      1. Anonymousaurus Rex*

        These are both really helpful, thanks! If we stay within our state, I could feasibly become remote (I already work from home most days). Unfortunately if we move out of state (which is likely) it would be a lot harder as I travel pretty frequently around the state for in-person meetings that are regulatory requirements of my position. I suppose I could try it temporarily though, at least if I don’t have another position lined up by the time we move.

        I sort of wish she weren’t applying so many places! Mostly I don’t want to get my hopes up that we will be in one place or another, as I’ve promised that the decision is truly hers (though I had input on where to apply in the first place). I should probably at least get a feel for the job markets in the top contenders though.

  91. Mints*

    So at my job I’ll occasionally cover the incoming calls for a department. It happens a lot that we know someone is working that day but not answering the phone for an hour or two or more, and we don’t really know why. Someone else, the primary answering person, will often say that they might be at lunch. I think that sounds a little…casual. Not unprofessional necessarily, but I’d rather say “Alex might be in a meeting.” Especially with external calls, I think it makes Alex sound potentially lazy. (Even though it’s totally fine to be at lunch or whatever during personal time!) Especially if they’re out for a couple hours.
    Sometimes my best guess IS lunch, but I’d rather be vague. I know I’m overthinking this but I’m curious what people think?

    1. Sled dog mama*

      I’ve always used “not available” it covers everything from at lunch, to in a meeting to is locked in her office prepping for a big meeting and has threatened to do bodily harm to anyone who disturbs her for less than the apocalypse, but in a professional way.

  92. GriefBacon*

    Update: I mentioned a couple weeks about my former coworker Mary maybe leaving her job and me really wanting her job if she did. I never had a chance to talk to her, we kept not being able to catch up because of the holidays. But we got together yesterday, and it turns out she gave her notice this week!

    The only wrinkle is that our former boss (well, my former, Mary’s soon-to-be former) is also leaving, for a promotion elsewhere. Which means she won’t be the one doing the hiring. I’m sending an email to the CEO, HR, and the director who’s apparently doing the hiring for it as soon as the official announcement is made about Mary leaving, to let them know I’m interested. And I’m reaching out to my former boss to let her know as well, in hopes that she will advocate for me before she leaves in a couple weeks. (I have no doubt that she will, she’s made it very clear she’ll giving me glowing references for anything and everything).

    So…it’s not looking quite as smooth as it would have a couple weeks ago, but still looking very good for sure!

  93. Anon 4 this*

    So, I have a coworker, Jenna, who drives me and my entire team completely bananas with her bad behavior. Jenna has been with the company for 15 years while most of us have only worked here for 2-3 years. She does the bare minimum required of her and is typically the last person to show up and the first person to leave. She often stops working an hour or so before the workday ends. Yesterday we were both swamped and understaffed, and Jenna stopped working at about an hour before we close and actually went outside to start warming up her car while the rest of us were frantically trying to meet a deadline. As irritating and demoralizing as her behavior is, I’ve actually learned to tolerate her poor work ethic. What is really upsetting me is the fact that Jenna doesn’t even do her job correctly. She cuts corners and violates our SOPs because she thinks she knows better. As the senior-most member of the team, Jenna is in charge of training new people and communicating changes in our procedure to our group. But Jenna is often wrong about how things are supposed be done. She trained me about 18 months ago, and I’m still finding out things that she taught me incorrectly. She’s currently training our new hire and every day after Jenna leaves, we have to pull her aside and correct the things we overheard Jenna explaining incorrectly.

    I’m normally pretty assertive about discussing things with my coworkers that bother me/interfere with my workflow. But it’s hard with Jenna because she trained all of us and has a position of relative seniority. She’s very condescending towards our group and often orders us around. She’s way worse about it when our team lead, Liz, is away. Liz is good at her job, but pretty nonconfrontational and limited in her ability to hold Jenna accountable. I want to bring these things up to our boss, Jack, during my next one-on-one, but I’m not sure how to explain to him how awful Jenna is in a professional way.

    1. Nacho*

      It’s going to depend on your rapport with Jack and Liz, but I think this is something that should be brought up as a team, preferably on a day Jenna is absent. Just be frank and point out not only how demoralizing it is for her to do this, but how it’s affecting your business.

  94. The New Wanderer*

    I’m considering (and being considered for) a contractor position to my previous employer. Weirdly, it’s through a recruiting firm working on behalf of the contracting firm, so two layers of smaller companies between me and previous employer. I asked for the same rate as with previous employer (contract comes with benefits). The irony is, previous company might end up paying me my salary rate, PLUS the fees for two layers of companies, while I was originally laid off due to cost cutting.

    Any advice on working for a contracting company, and what to look for in the contract? I’m in the US and have always been a direct employee, so benefits/401K have always been part of the offer. In this case, the recruiter asked me whether I wanted benefits (yes) or a 401K (I said yes but was confused at the question). I gave my rate minimum based on having benefits included – I know it would usually be higher if I didn’t take benefits.

    1. fposte*

      With the 401k, the question is whether theirs includes a match and is any good, vs. whatever you’d be able to do with an individual 401k, SEP-IRA, etc. I’m including a link in followup that goes over some of these.

  95. blergarg*

    I started a job in non profit a few months ago, and I realize now that I don’t like it. I’m thinking about alternative work, but I don’t want it to be a surprise when I leave.

    I don’t like the role (I feel like I’ve outgrown it, especially since I’ve done this before), and though I’ve tried, I can’t think of a new role in this company that I’d eventually like to move on to. Our work environment is a little hostile (I’ve had several months of stress before being accepted by difficult team members) and somewhat unprofessional, though I’ve developed some strong work relationships too.

    The problem is that we work with youth, and I manage a cohort of 20+ students whose time with the program ends in a few months. I think it would be unfair to them to quit before they leave the program, I don’t want to burn bridges, and I’d like to give them time to recruit to fill the position. So, I’d like to use my upcoming stay interview to convey the message that I’m looking to move on.

    My question is: is this a wise idea? Most people I know would find a job and then quit with two weeks’ notice. My second question is: how would you frame this, and use the interview to get this message across?

  96. Teapot Data Lady*

    My department needs a second Teapot Data Person. I am currently the only one, since my colleague moved internally over a year ago.

    It was originally not backfilled to see whether there was enough work for 2 Data People, since our work ebbs and flows. Well, now my work is overflowing and when it comes to the quality of my work, there is no substitution for a second pair of eyes. No one else in the department has the technical skill to review my work or provide a sounding board. I have recently gotten new coaching (but not direct management) from a different Data Manager who will advise my boss on things like another Data Person and whether I should be promoted to a higher level.

    That Data Manager has told me already that he told my boss that she should get another Data Person, and asks me why we aren’t hiring yet. When I ask my boss if we are hiring someone else, she says she is waiting on Data Manager’s advice. How do I put some pressure on this again?

    I could really use the help because I’m currently the bottleneck in the process, and the department is really screwed if I leave the company. It’s a weird place for me to be, even though I’m not looking at the moment.

    1. Dawn*

      I think that goes in the standard I can do a,b,c, but x,y,z just aren’t happening. Let them know that things are backing up, and how this will affect people that need it done.

      1. Teapot Data Lady*

        I’ve been there and she knows what’s getting backed up, but the Data Manager has made clear that it’s not just the amount of the work that should be considered, but also the quality and continuation of the work for the good of the department long-term. No one is willing or able to step in if I leave, and my job is critical to the department’s functioning.

        I guess I don’t know if there is any room for me to use the very real possibility of my departure and its impact as more reason to hire someone else. (I’m not looking recently, but I have looked not too long ago.) I recently applied and interviewed internally for another role but didn’t get it, so perhaps that already speaks for itself — who knows?

    2. Someone else*

      It sounds like Boss and Data Manager are contradicting each other: DM says B has the go ahead to hire bit B says has to wait on DM to do so. You can interpret this two ways:
      1) There’s a genuine miscommunication between the two, in which case it might help if next time it came up you pointed that out.
      2) They’re intentionally giving the run around and intend to delay hiring as long as possible.

      If it’s the latter, the department may be more dysfunctional than it seemed in which case I’d encourage you to continue looking. If they’re screwed that’s a natural consequence of these shenanigans.

  97. Annie Mouse*

    Got a resit exam this week and I’m not quite sure how prepared I’m feeling :( lots of revision to do this weekend I think.

  98. DaniCalifornia*

    I applied for a job as an EA 12/15/17. For the first time in my career I actually knew someone at this job! So I reached out to my contact, she said she would reach out to the hiring manager for me. She emailed me back the same day and said she reached out to the manager and the current EA and gave them my name. I then received a notification from Indeed that the company looked at my application the same day. A couple of days later my contact reached out and said to let her know if her office reaches out to me.

    I realize the current EA was still there, and we had all the holidays just wrap up. I am just wondering when to/if I should reach out to my contact? Mid January? I don’t even know what to say or ask her if I do email her?

  99. Sled dog mama*

    There is a food truck at my work place today, not bad in and of itself. The truck is in the side parking lot, the door to the side lot is right outside my office door. Its currently 15 F here so everyone is going outside to get food and the door is constantly open and my office is freezing and LOUD while I’m trying to prep for a meeting for THE major project this quarter.

      1. Sled dog mama*

        Yeah, I had the door closed. Unfortunately the door os thin and there’s a gap under it.

        1. ..Kat..*

          Can you ask the food truck to move? Maybe run it by your boss to see if this is a reasonable request?

  100. Tau*

    I got a raise! And I didn’t even ask for one!

    My entire team is getting new contracts for logistical reasons. I went to go through mine with my boss and sign it today, and the salary on the new contract is 10% higher than my current one. Boss told me this is because they’ve loved my work so far and they’re planning on giving me more responsibility in the next few months. !!!

  101. Disgruntled*

    I’m a teapot designer. My department wants to bring in an outside teapot design firm to review our designs and ensure their modernity so that the sales department stops nagging about “lagging” sales (or so my direct boss has relayed to me). Grandboss just said in a meeting that instead of pointing out places to update/providing key ideas as I was led to believe, they would be providing actual teapot designs. I’m trying to resist the urge to go to my boss and/or grandboss and ask why I, the sole teapot designer, am actually here.

  102. Confused*

    This is such a silly question, but if applying to a job by email, do you attach cover letter or just write it in the body of the email (attaching CV only)??

    1. Claire*

      I’ve always been told that when writing an email, the body of the email IS the cover letter, since it’s the cover of your electronic resume, if that makes any sense. If you were mailing a resume in, you wouldn’t write a letter introducing yourself and then include a separate cover letter and resume. Unless the posting specifically asks for an attached, separate cover letter, I think the body of the email works just fine.

    2. fposte*

      I want to circulate both documents, so I don’t want to be copying and pasting from your email text. Attach both.

      1. Natalie*

        Interesting, do you specify that in your job ads? Because from my experience the norm is absolutely to write the cover letter in the email body, not attach it as a separate document.

        1. fposte*

          TBH I don’t remember, but just about everybody does send them as attachments, so it works okay. (For jobs that have to go through the bigger university system they just get uploaded there so it’s a moot point.)

    3. purple orchid pot*

      You’ve gotten two opposing answers so far–I would agree with “attach it because it’ll be printed and looked at separately”. Text in the body of the email can be simply “Good afternoon,
      Attached please find my application materials for Position XYZ.
      Thank you for your time, POP”

    5. buttercup*

      I always do both, because why not?

      I put paste it in the body of the email, because I want the person receiving the email application to be able to immediately skim the cover letter and decide if it’s worth forwarding to the direct hiring manager or the “maybe” pile or whatever. However, I also include a PDF attachment (along with the resume) bc a lot of hiring managers like to print applications when reviewing them.

    6. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It really doesn’t matter. Different hiring managers have different preferences, but no one is going to reject you for choosing one method over the other. (That said, I prefer attachments. But it’s just personal preference.) More here:

      https://www.askamanager.org/2016/05/should-you-attach-your-cover-letter-or-put-it-in-the-body-of-the-email.html

      But to the people saying they do both — don’t do that! That’s annoying because now I need to look at both to see if they’re the same. You might think they obviously will be, but actually some people write something in the body of the email and then attach a whole separate letter. Do one or the other, not both.

  103. Mine Own Telemachus*

    This will likely get buried, but I have A PROBLEM that’s so petty I feel weird even posting about it. But here goes!

    I have a coworker who does not read her email, and I’m at a loss as to how to get her to do so!

    Eg: Yesterday, I sent around a packet for a training we were having, and EXPLICITLY SAID in the first line of the email: “You do not need to print this as it’s just for reference later.”

    Five minutes later, she yells across the office, “Hey do we need to print this packet????” It’s incredibly irritating, because she will often come over and interrupt my work to ask me about something I emailed, or will write an email saying ‘We should do X’ in reply to an email where one of us has said, “We are doing X. Here’s the info.”

    The rub is that she’s one of our execs, not my boss, but higher than me in the org chart. So I can’t exactly come to her as a coworker. And I’ve a feeling she’d take any “helpful suggestion” as an affront to her personally. I’m at my wit’s end with it though, because I shouldn’t have to repeat info she already has, or go back over things that are in her email!

    1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      No advice here. Just commiserating. I have a coworker like this. DRIVES ME UP A WALL.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I can relate to this so hard.

      One of my colleagues has a completely out of control inbox that makes me want to weep when I walk past and see it on the screen and is constantly missing information because of it. Drives me bonkers.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I see you work with my colleague. I’m coming out in hives just thinking about it. She never empties her deleted items. She had TWENTY TWO THOUSAND unread emails in there last time I had the misfortune to look over her shoulder.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          My colleague keeps everything in the inbox. There are thousands of unread emails and no sort of organizational or filing system. It seriously makes me want to hyperventilate. I only keep things in my inbox that I need to actively work on and then they get filed.

    3. AndersonDarling*

      This has been driving me nuts. Since more people are reading email on their phones, they do not scroll to read the rest of the email! It’s like they think everyone knows their screen size and only email as much info that fits there.
      When people email back asking for things that are in the previous email, I have no problem saying “Here is the information from the last email” and then pasting it. It only took a few of these exchanges to see a change.

    5. Struck By Lightning*

      Is it infrequent enough that just communicating things to her verbally is an option? When I started in my current position it drove me absolutely batty that my supervisor mis-read emails all the time. It turns out he’s dyslexic. So, I still email him, but I also give him the synopsis verbally. I’ve also changed my email font from the default to one dyslexics tend to find easier to read, do shorter sentences/paragraphs, more bulleted lists, etc.

      I have no idea if she has a similar problem but even people who have worked with my supervisor for nearly a decade weren’t aware that he was dyslexic until it came up in a group conversation about biases and he mentioned it.

      1. Mine Own Telemachus*

        No, no learning disability, and she does this on org-wide emails most frequently (that I see, as she’s a dotted line boss and not an actual boss of mine) so following up verbally isn’t really an option. It doesn’t seem tied to length of email or content—just that she skims it very, very quickly, and responds to what she thinks was said.

        I’ve literally put things in bold, put things in bullets, tried to adapt to skimming, all caps’d “HERE’S THE LINK” and I still get asked to repeat information that was in the email. It seems to be a personality quirk at best, and apathy on her part toward any email that doesn’t directly pertain to what she’s working on at that very moment.

    6. Victoria, Please*

      When this happens, can you bring yourself to say brightly, “It’s in the email!”

      1. Victoria, Please*

        I hit post too soon. What I mean is, don’t answer the question. Ever. Just “it’s in the email.”

  104. Claire*

    I work in a tech/sales company, and the workplace is 95% white men (I am a woman). I get along really welly with the team for the most part, but recently I’ve been noticing the guys making repeated disparaging remarks about transgender/non-conforming people. This would bother me just as a human being, but my sister also happens to be transgender, so I especially take offense to the comments. My boss works in a different country than I do, and my defacto supervisor in our office is one of the people making the comments. We also don’t have an HR department. How do I bring it up that this bothers me? I would hope that my explaining why it bothers me would be enough, but as a woman in this company the deck is already pretty stacked against me and I don’t want anyone to take any retaliatory action.

    2. Louise*

      I think you could call it out directly with a “woah, that’s a pretty mean thing to say,” and then let them sit in silence with the awkwardness. And if they pull the “oh we’re just joking,” I’d give em the old “I don’t find that funny and I’d appreciate you not making comments like that around me. Let’s get back to [work topic].”

      1. Louise*

        Oh, another thing would be to say something like, “We don’t actually know how everyone at this company identifies. I’m SURE you wouldn’t want to make a colleague feel unwelcome or uncomfortable for the sake of a joke.”

  105. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    This may seem like a small thing to a lot of people, but it’s been a thorn in my side for the 16 months since my job was reclassified from exempt salaried to non-exempt hourly – I can eat lunch at my desk again! We have a tiny, cramped lunchroom that I hate eating in, because it’s filled with noisy conversation and I prefer to recharge my battery mid-day at my relatively quiet desk.

    The best part is, I think I had an instrumental part in getting the privilege back! I have a new grandboss who set up 1:1’s with everyone in my department, and when she asked what I felt she could do to improve morale I waxed poetic about how being forced to eat in the lunchroom is a constant source irritation throughout my department (not a lie – when we devolve into the occasional b*tch session it’s always brought up). That was a few weeks ago, and when we came back from having New Year’s day off it was announced that we can eat wherever the heck we want. There was legit cheering and clapping at the news.

    It’s been a rough transition going from exempt to non-exempt, but this change along with a few others over the past year at least have me convinced the my immediate management really is trying to make things as painless as possible, and it’s helped my morale quite a bit.

    2. Susan K*

      That’s great! It is really nice to have a manager who (a) listens to you and (b) cares about morale. I’m jealous! There are a few issues like that in my department, where management could easily do something simple to improve morale, but they refuse Just Because.

    3. Catarina*

      That is amazing. My great-grandboss did something similar with small groups (I guess you’d call them 1:5s?) but of course nothing has changed. He sure is good at looking earnest and interested while listening, I’ll give him that.

  106. Changeling*

    I work in a large department, and when our long time supervisor retired a year and a half ago, they replaced her with 2 current employees. (Instead of 8 hour days 5 days a week, they split 3 12 hour shifts and also do regular work as well, so we have a regular supervisor later in the evening)
    Because these 2 were employees before becoming our supervisors, they have friends among the employees. And people they don’t like, as well.
    This week, both supervisors, and a group of 4 employees are all on vacation together. They have done this before, before they were our bosses, so this has been a semi regular thing.
    I have noticed a tendency in the supervisors, one in particular, to show favoritism in the past. Or at least whatever the opposite is, giving the worst jobs to the people you don’t like…

    This bothers me, I don’t know if I just need to vent?, do I need to push this up the chain?, do I let it go?

    1. fposte*

      Ugh. They shouldn’t do this. It sounds like they really haven’t processed how things have to change when you manage people.

      Whether you go up the chain or not will depend on the details of the favoritism and the culture of your office; it also may be worth bringing it up with your supervisors first. “Hey, I think there’s a glitch in the toilet-cleaning rota; can we make sure that’s shared out equally by the whole team rather than being left just to Jane and me?”

      1. Changeling*

        It’s hard to pinpoint that it’s “always” Jane and I doing the toilets. But one day Fergus was proudly proclaiming that Jane was assigned because he had annoyed him earlier, simply by existing. Jane is usually assigned to be cleaning either the toilets or the dustbins, while Wakeem is setting tables or folding napkins while sitting. There are no written logs of who has done what when, so it’s hard to prove. And if you say something, it’s because Wakeem “did toilets yesterday” or “just finished scrubbing the trash bins out back”
        It’s a feeling, as much as anything.
        And I’m actually not always the one that gets put on “toilet duty”
        Fergus has a running “joke” that he decides each day whether or not he likes me. So some days I get decent jobs, some days, not so much

        1. Dawn*

          If they keep making jokes like that where people can hear them, then it needs to go up the chains. Write down the info with date/time, and go to someone that will do something about it.

        2. fposte*

          If he’s saying it out loud, I’d tackle that. “Fergus, it makes me really uncomfortable when you talk about task assignment being connected with who you like, and it’s bad for the team’s morale.”

          But alternatively you could track it for a bit to make sure that it’s not just a feeling. “Fergus, you joke about assigning bad tasks to people you don’t like, but it looks like whether you mean it to or not it’s not just a joke–Jane had to do the trash all this month but Lucinda was never asked to. Can we set up a rota so that these are more fairly allotted?”

  107. Health Insurance Nerd*

    At the end of October I got a fishing email on LinkedIn for a position at a well reputed company three miles from my house (my current commute is 20+ miles and is slowly killing my will to live). After looking at the job description, I responded that I wasn’t sure my experience was a fit, and the recruiter responded that she felt otherwise. I agreed to talk to the HR recruiter, which ended up being an awesome conversation, and when I learned more about the role, and my perspective about my qualifications changed and I started to get really excited about the potential opportunity. I then went on to have two more phone interviews, and was then invited onsite to interview with six people over the course of half a day. All these interviews went so well, and I left feeling great! Then, weeks went by, and crickets. I attributed it to the crazy holiday season, and made plans to reach out this week.

    Well, last night I received an email from the recruiter saying they’re not moving forward with my candidacy. I know it’s not personal, I know this happens, and I’m thankful they closed the loop, but I’m SO disappointed! I’m starting to wallow in the pool of “I’m not good enough” which I know logically isn’t true, but still. The kicker is that they came to me, and I wasn’t even looking to leave my current company, but now I feel all rejected.

    Pep talk? Anyone?

    1. straws*

      This may sound cliche, but you should be proud of getting so far in an interview process. For most roles, so many people are flat out rejected, and it’s unlikely that more than a handful made it as far as you did. When we get to that stage where I work, there are usually only 3 people left in the race. It’s rare that we don’t struggle with the final decision. If you do decide to search for another opportunity, I think you can safely say that your interview skills are great!

  108. Lecturer in Recent Runes*

    Being a support worker for a disabled couple is great – they’re both really nice people, they’re very flexible with my working hours, and it’s great to be making a meaningful difference to somebody’s life.

    But how do you deal with being sort of in the middle of their marital problems? Diplomacy is usually a strong suit for me, but what do you do when Husband starts complaining vehemently to you about Wife and vice versa? I haven’t worked with them for long so any sort of subtle, tactful advice doesn’t come easily. I’ve just sort of been saying nothing, but it is a bit awkward.

    1. fposte*

      I think you can say chummily, “Yup, people can be annoying. But I will never say anything bad about my employers–I like working here too much!”

    3. k.k*

      “Well I don’t know about that….” “I don’t want to get in the middle of you two…”, “I don’t think I’m the right person to be asking…” and then a quick topic change. Eventually they might get the picture that you’re not a good person to vent to as you won’t engage in that kind of talk.

    4. Lecturer in Recent Runes*

      These are some great responses, thanks. Hopefully they’ll sort themselves out but I’ll keep these in mind.

      1. ..Kat..*

        I can pretty much guarantee that they will not sort themselves out. When one complains about the other, I recommend saying “I really like taking care of you and your partner. But, It is uncomfortable for me when you complain about your partner. Since I take care of both of you, I need to stay out of your personal relationship complaints. Can we not discuss your complaints about your partner going forward?” There is probably a better way to say this, but this is the gist of it.

  109. Looking for the Unicorn?*

    My current job is fantastic when I consider logistics. I can drop my kids at school each day and pick them up over 90% of the time. Because of this, we don’t have to hire a daycare provider and I work at 95% salary. Often I’m working from home in the afternoons and evenings, but I’m fine with that.

    Jobs that allow one to leave in the afternoon are unheard of in my industry. In 20 years, I know of no one else with this arrangement.

    The issue is that I’m bored to tears at my job. I need a new challenge and it’s not going to happen where I’m at. I have only one person above me in rank and he doesn’t want me to take on anything new because it would be me doing what he’s clearly suppose to be doing. I already do a lot of what he’s suppose to do, but not what’s visible to others.

    Is there an option to simply staying put and waiting until my kids are older to look for something more?

    1. AndersonDarling*

      If it was me, I’d stay put and find something else to changeling me. Are their any volunteer groups that could use your skills? Could you consult an evening a week? Write a book or blog? Or is there something completely separate from your work that you would like to pursue? An online degree? Learn a new language? Learn rock climbing or rice sculpting?
      It sounds like you have a good set up, and those kids will grow faster than you think! It may help to know that in a few years you will be ready to job search.

      1. Looking for the Unicorn?*

        Thanks for the ideas. It’s interesting to look at the idea of doing something completely different than I do at work. I think I was so focused on the idea of wanting more from my job that my focus was too narrow.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I was in that position for at least two years before I was laid off. I loved the flexibility that came with the job, and my coworkers, just not the work itself most of the time. What I did was channel my energies into side projects at home, mostly crafts like sewing that take creativity, problem solving, and planning, all skills I wasn’t able to use much of at work. The tradeoff was worth it to me – yes, it’s hard and frustrating to be bored for hours on end, but the alternatives aren’t great and I wasn’t willing to risk having a stricter schedule, or worse commute, or lower salary on the off chance that another job would be more interesting.

      If it’s only a few more years that you and your family benefits the most from the flexibility, I’d say stick it out but it never hurts to look around and just see. You may find something better or you may find that you have it pretty good.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I would just make noncommittal noises and change the subject. Don’t say anything – it may get repeated to the other party!

  110. Annon*

    I’m hoping to leave my job by February or March of this year, and I’m currently interviewing at another company. The weird thing is, the hiring manager is an old friend–I think I would have a good shot at the position even without knowing him, but it’s such a weird interview process. You have to be professional and take the interviews seriously, but also acknowledge that you know the hiring manager on a personal level as well. He also recommended me for the job. I have my next interview soon–does anyone have any tips for trying to get a job with someone you know? Has anyone had experience interviewing with someone you know, and then not getting the job? I don’t want rejection to affect our friendship.

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Yes, although my experience may differ enough from yours to be unhelpful.

      Three years ago, I applied for a job at an organization I had previously worked at (I left on good terms seven years before the interview). The hiring manager was my former manager, who I had always had a strong relationship with and who had become a good friend. He used the same interview structure with me that he used with other applicants, but because we were both already comfortable with each other we were able to talk frankly about the role and what I would bring to it. I’ve tried to bring lessons from that experience into other interviews, actually — it was really empowering.

      In that case, there were a couple of directions he could have wanted to take the role I was interviewing for. I was a great candidate for one of those directions, and not at all a good candidate for another, and we were able to talk about that really directly (as in, I said: “If you’re looking for someone who can do X, Y, Z with this role then that’s just not me. But if you want someone to do A,B, C, let’s talk about what that would look like and what I’d bring to the role.”)

      He ended up going in the direction that wasn’t a fit for me — and the person they hired has achieved way more in the role than I would have (I would have been a great hire; she is genuinely extraordinary). Because we were so direct with each other, there wasn’t any funkiness afterwards. And — a fun coda to this story — he just recently was hired at the organization I now work for, and he’s my boss again!

      1. Annon*

        Thank you so much for sharing–that’s true! The hope is that if I get the role, it’s because I’m also the best fit for the company. I know I wouldn’t want to be hired just because I know the person who’s doing the hiring.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      If it’s the kind of interview where they score you, make sure you mention anything you need to rather than taking it as read that the person already knows as they may need you to say it because process. And good luck!

  111. Julianne*

    Does anyone use Workplace? My understanding is that it’s basically Facebook for work. My large, public-sector employer adopted it back in the fall, and I get an annoying number of emails encouraging me to join. (Probably fewer emails than I’d get if I did sign up, though.) No plans to join, but I’m just curious.

  112. MMM*

    I had a phone interview scheduled for yesterday and was prepared for it to be postponed due to the blizzard…it was postponed, but only because the woman was in a meeting that was going to run long, not because she wasn’t in the office. Should it be at all a red flag that employees were apparently required to come even though the city got over a foot of snow?

    1. AndersonDarling*

      Do you know that it was an in office meeting? It could have been a conference call. The last few phone interviews that I’ve had, the interviewer was calling from home.

      1. MMM*

        Very true, thank you! I think in the moment I was just overly stressed about the blizzard outside and the thought of even possibly having to trek to work in it!

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I wouldn’t be concerned about it just yet. The woman could have decided to come into the office of her own volition, she could live across the street from the office, should could be working from home — who knows!

      (Unless she explicitly stated that the entire office was expected to report to work mid-blizzard?)

    3. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

      Maybe not? She could also not be located in the same office as your position would be – I conduct phone interview for positions nationwide so am often calling people in different time-zones.

      1. MMM*

        I didn’t even think of that! But yes it is a large company so she very well could be anywhere in the country, thanks for pointing it out :)

  113. Jessica*

    Gift for a Boss that is leaving?

    Hey all, I just found out that my boss is leaving, which sucks, because he’s been a great boss to me. I’ve never given him a present (per the etiquette on this site!), but I wonder if a going away present would be appropriate? Or should I just stick to a nice card?

    1. fposte*

      A card telling him how much you’ve appreciated working for him and how much you’ve learned from him will be treasured more than most material goods.

  114. Uncivil Engineer*

    I essentially declined someone’s vacation request this week. We work in an environment where vacation requests are usually just a formality and are almost never declined. On one hand, this feels mean; on the other hand, the requestor is so utterly clueless about what is going on that this may be the only thing that gets through to him.

    He is so far behind schedule on a project that we had to have a discussion about mitigating the delay in the schedule
    and I had him commit to a date when the next stage was due. He picked a date and I agreed to it. At this point, there is very little hope that he will finish on time. Then, he asked to take off the day it was due. If he can somehow manage to submit the deliverable one day early, he is welcome to take the day off. If not, he works that day.

    1. I'm Not Phyllis*

      Sounds reasonable unless there was a once-in-a-lifetime event that he needed to attend that day. Although even then, the messaging about handing it in the day before since he’s already had an extension wouldn’t be unreasonable.

    3. Shadow*

      I would tell him I’m happy to approve it on the condition that he turns in the work before his scheduled off day

      1. Uncivil Engineer*

        That is what I told him.

        Actually, I emailed it to him so that, in the very likely event that he does not finish on time, I have a record of what I said.

  115. Anonish*

    My husband might finally be getting out of retail! He’s been with his company forever and he’s at the point where there’s nowhere to advance without being a manager, which he has never wanted to do. A friend of his referred him for a job at a great company in our area, and yesterday during the snow day I helped him put together his resume using advice from AMA about listing accomplishments, etc. He got an email THIS MORNING for a phone screen, and since he hasn’t applied for a job in literally 9 years, I think he doesn’t really have a sense of how amazing that is. I’m super proud of him.

    On the flip side, I’m taking a second WFH day after the bomb cyclone and I’m feeling guilty about it since I think everyone else on my team made it into the office. I’m the only one who drives rather than takes public transit, though, and I just wasn’t sure about the roads.

      1. ..Kat..*

        And make sure your team has WFH opportunities. Just because they made it into work doesn’t mean it was safe or a good idea.

  116. Bug Lady*

    Hi, all! I’m viewed as an expert on a certain topic in my department & another team was struggling with it, so one of their leads asked me to come in and help straighten it out. Despite several meetings and me taking control of some of their functions, not everyone on that team is on the same page about why I’m there, and a couple of the people I work with the most closely seem to resent me as a sign that they aren’t doing something well; they’re asking for a lot more work and documentation than I really feel is necessary from me and pretty much act like I’m just in the way. Despite this not being a major part of my job on paper, it’s turning out to be a big headache; but I have a healthy dose of impostor syndrome and in the back of my head I’m yelling “actually you’re not an expert, you’ve been bad at this this whole time and this team is just showing you how bad you actually are!” How do I get the voices to stop yelling & figure out what I really need to do to work well with these people, even if they view my addition to the team as an insult?

    1. Dawn*

      They’re projecting their insecurities on you, don’t let them. You are an adult, you might not be the greatest thing ever, but you’re better at this task than any of them, so do your job the best you know how. If they have problems, then they can take it up with a manager.

  117. Daisy*

    Yesterday my boss gave some of us a bit of a hard time about working from home due to a snow storm. She made sure we all had our phones forwarded to our cells and even did some things that seemed to be checking to make sure we were actually on our home computers and logged into our network. Such as calling our work phones to “make sure she did it right” and forwarding emails we were already copied and working on, asking if we “had seen them”. To my knowledge she only did that to specific employees (I was not one of them, at least in regards to the phone call).

    Today two of my coworkers, Betty and Sarah, are working from home (Betty’s car won’t start, no reason was given for Sarah), and both are employees that our boss has shown favoritism towards. She forwarded both of the phones without checking that it was done right, and sent emails out that the employees were working from.

    Sarah appears to be set up at home, she has been answering emails. Betty however still has her out of office message up saying she will be back on the 8th (she was supposed to be on PTO all week with the exception of yesterday, when an event got canceled due to the storm). I have no clue why she isn’t taking the PTO day that she had already planned and been approved to use today. However, it has become clear that she is not logged on to the network at all, because she is now calling us to enter work for her. This has apparently been going on for years that she is allowed to “work from home” by forwarding her phone to her cell and then asking team members (including our boss!) to do literally everything else for her. Anything that needs to happen for Monday delivery, she calls us. Anything that can wait, she is waiting to take care of until she is back in the office.

    I am highly uncomfortable with this. I was not aware of this arrangement until today when a coworker explained it to me, and that it’s been going on for years. I was on the fence about saying something because Betty had not called me yet- however I just got off the phone with her. She gave me three orders to take care of.

    I need and want to talk to my boss about how uncomfortable this makes me and how inappropriate it seems that she allows Betty to save on PTO days doing this. How the heck do I have this conversation??

    1. Not Ned Stark*

      I think you can go to your boss and treat it as a question of workload and priority:

      “Boss, Betty called and told me to place these three orders in our system for her. I understood that she was working from home today. Do you want me to stop my work to place these orders for her? It will set me back (X time) on (Y tasks.”

      Make your boss say explicitly that she wants you to do Betty’s work for her while Betty is ‘working from home.’ Your co-workers who are being asked to cover for Betty should do the same. It might not change anything, but at least your boss will have to admit that Betty gets different treatment. There might be a reason (no home Internet, unable to set up VPN for some reason, etc.) and you should at least be told straightforwardly what the expectations of you are in this situation.

      1. Daisy*

        I ended up doing something like that to start the conversation off. I reaffirmed that Betty was in fact working from home, and then told her that I had received a call from Betty asking me to enter some orders. My boss immediately explained to me that Betty isn’t supposed to be doing that. Betty is supposed to be giving Sarah her orders, because the two of them had come to an arrangement. Betty takes calls, calls the next-day orders into Sarah, Sarah enters the orders. The conversation turned into several minutes of us awkwardly repeating ourselves as I asked if the rest of us were okay to do that (say we were working from home, but actually have another coworker do our work), her repeating that the two of them had agreed to it, and me explaining that Betty was getting paid to have someone else to her work (and that was something all of us could do, right?). It was totally weird.

        I explained to my boss that I found it incredibly inappropriate that this was going on, that I believed it was a form of double dipping, asking if I was also allowed to save a PTO day by having someone else do my work, and again saying that we were paying Betty for Sarah to do her work. To be honest, it seems like my boss only had an issue with the fact that the rest of us all know about it now. She’s decided to “revisit” this with Betty and let her know it won’t be happening going forward. She also claimed it was the first time, that Betty and Sarah sprung it on her, and that she was so caught up dealing with storm stuff that she just said yes. She reaffirmed several times that it was their idea, they were okay with it, and that she just said yes because she had other things to deal with/they said it was okay. She also mentioned that Betty does not have a computer at home- but I recall her working from home before. So as to this being the first time, I’m not certain that’s true.

        It was an awkward conversation and I hope I don’t have to repeat it in the future. But we’ll see what happens if Betty ever has to “work from home” again- if I see evidence of this arrangement, I will be going to HR. I’m still shocked that my boss, an executive level employee, ever okayed this arrangement in the first place. But I’m very, very glad I spoke up about it.

        1. Daisy*

          I forgot to add- taking these calls for next day orders is only one facet of our jobs. So Betty was “working from home” on only one responsibility, and then having other people actually do half of that task for her.

          I also had to explain to my boss that I think it this is an unprofessional arrangement for customers to have to deal with. And Betty’s out of office was on all day- she missed any contact from customers via email.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Did Betty call you and ask you to specifically enter work for her? If not, I’m going to say that you probably can’t really bring this to your boss’s attention.

      If she did ask you to do something for her though, I think you could say something like “Hey, Boss, Betty called me and asked me to enter some information for the Purple Teapot Company’s order. I thought that when we were working from home, we had the ability to access the database and enter that information ourselves.”

      1. Tabby Baltimore*

        I would add Detective Amy Santiago’s comment onto Not Ned Stark’s. And then you might consider adding “Can you share with me why she’s unable to accomplish this from her own home system? Having this information will help me manage my daily workflow and expectations better.”

  118. Dawn*

    I have a weird one, so bear with me. My married last name is horrible, it doesn’t go with my first name, and it gives off the impression that I speak Spanish (think Martinez), combined with being from Arizona, it becomes frustrating. I have no wording in my resume that I know Spanish, but I will still get calls assuming I do, and then I tell them I don’t, and that’s the end of the conversation cause they really like bilingual people. Would it be weird if I just use my maiden name? Most of my previous jobs were with my maiden name, and my first name is original enough that they’d know it was me anyway.

    2. Goya de la Mancha*

      :’-D This makes me giggle because my last name has similar issues (except it is a VERY white European name)! I get Spanish magazines in the mail for free, almost half my junk mail comes in Spanish. Lots of emails for Spanish content and Pandora even decided I needed all my commercials (and some of my music) in Spanish for awhile.

      I think the maiden name wouldn’t be an issue per-say, but if all your ID/official documents list the other name – that may prompt queries. I don’t know (not married) if this would be an issue or anything, just the only “problem” I would see with going maiden vs married.

      1. Dawn*

        All my legal documents are married name, maybe I should just hyphenate for my resume, that way my maiden name is still there.

      2. Natalie*

        I wouldn’t worry about it too much, it’s really not uncommon for women to change their name after marriage but continue using their birth name at work.

      3. Mrs Kate*

        You could put your name as First Maiden Married or First (maiden) Married on things like your resume and LinkedIn if it’s those places that are driving the contact.

        You won’t need to change your legal name at all.

    3. Reba*

      Why not simply try the birth name for a while and see if you get better results? (I didn’t change my name when I married so I’m biased ;) )

      It’s so common for women to use their birth names in the professional sphere after marriage that I don’t even think it would create weirdness if you get hired as Bertha BirthName and then fill out the starting paperwork with all the names. Just explain on starting how you like to be called.

      1. Dawn*

        I actually get decent results with my maiden name, the only calls I got with married name were ones that needed someone bilingual.

    4. Parse*

      I’m not changing my maiden name because it’s clearly ethnic (as am I), but my married name would be more generic. I’d rather people not think they’re talking to the wrong person when I show up because I’m not who they visualized.

      Ideally, we can move to a place where names wouldn’t matter, but I think this is how it has to be for now…

      1. Dawn*

        What’s really funny is I actually look ethnic. For an Irish girl, I tan really well, and I die my hair black, instead of my natural blonde.

    5. Shadow*

      What you’re saying is sounding really bad- both your comments about your married last name and the perceptions that your commentunity has about it.

      1. Dawn*

        Via text there’s no context, so yeah I can see where you would get that. I’m not trying to be ignorant/racist/ect… It’s just an odd problem I’m having. If it wouldn’t totally give me away I’d just give my legal name and you’d see how it sounds. This is coming from me not trying to project an ability that I don’t have, and a name that just doesn’t work. Believe me, my husband’s culture is awesome, and I know some words, and his mom is helping me with the food and traditions, but I’m doing what I can to not give off the wrong vibe.

          1. Dawn*

            The wrong vibe is my name does not flow. This isn’t a dig at people who are Spanish, and speak Spanish. My biggest concern is my name sounds wrong, a side effect is people assume I’m Spanish. If I honestly thought there was something wrong with Spanish people/culture, I probably wouldn’t have married my husband, but that isn’t where my issue is, my married name doesn’t connect with my first name. It isn’t some conspiracy, I literally have a problem with my name.

            1. Shadow*

              Frankly I think it’s a good problem to have. It’s a huge opportunity to push back on the racial perceptions that assuredly affect your husbands family and show those around you that indeed it does flow.

              Or you could just choose that it doesn’t flow.

            2. Reba*

              The issue of the “flow”/sound of your name is separate from the job searching/employers’ assumptions. I don’t think that has to be a problem.

              Sometimes a “non-flowy” name sounds great, like Soledad O’Brien, even Jennifer Lopez. Remember that all names, even a “neutral” Anglo name tell a story about you, as much as an ethnic one does (even if it is the “default” American story, which makes its storytelling seem less visible). I hope that with some time you begin to feel the name suits you more. And don’t hesitate to experiment with your name combinations, plenty of women I know (and some men) are doing this, even years after their marriages.

              1. Dawn*

                It’s a “Julia Gulia” situation. My middle name would actually work, but no one has ever called me that, and previous employers wouldn’t be able to reference me with it. My first name doesn’t turn into a nickname either. I do like your suggestions though.

          2. Elizabeth West*

            People seem to be assuming that Dawn Martinez (Hispanic married name) has a skill she doesn’t have (speaking Spanish). It’s a waste of time for people who want or need a bilingual worker to call someone who isn’t bilingual, but they think she is and they keep contacting her based on the name. So she wants to call herself Dawn Smith (Anglo maiden name) to eliminate this issue.

            I think Helpful below has a good suggestion. She could try using Dawn Smith Martinez as a preferred name and see if it helps. She would still be Dawn Martinez on her HR paperwork. It’s like going by your middle name–I was Liz West in email and Skype, etc. but Firstname West on my paychecks.

      2. Goya de la Mancha*

        Meh, I think you’re reading too much into it.

        If I had the option or reason to avoid unnecessary (and non applicable) assumptions in my job search, I’d go for it to. If the only reason companies are calling Mrs. “Martinez” is because they need someone who is bilingual, then it would save EVERYONE time and effort if she just applied as Mrs. Smith.

      3. Bye Academia*

        I think what’s bad is the employers who are assuming Dawn is bilingual based on her last name, and interviewing her because of that instead of the skills actually listed in her resume. It’s not bad that she’s trying to figure out a way around a system she can’t change single-handedly.

          1. Catarina*

            It’s a question about how to correct a misapprehension in a job search, not a question about how to launch a nomenclature moral crusade. Go volunteer somewhere to fulfill this need you have, rather than hassling Dawn.

            2. Shadow*

              When the supposed fix is to switch from an ethnic name to white one it is absolutely a moral question

              1. Dawn*

                Not everything has to be a crusade. I’m happy that you are wealthy enough that you can take these issues on, but I do not have that luxury. I asked if it was professionally acceptable to just use my maiden name to get in the door. That’s all. My first name does not sound good with my married name. I am not hiding an entire culture, I am just trying to get a job.

              2. Goya de la Mancha*

                Ffs. She’s trying to avoid job inquiries that she is not qualififed for. If her name were Taylor jane swift and she went by jane swift to avoid the same scenario, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

              3. TL -*

                But you could also say a lot of things about the sexism inherent in a woman changing her name upon marriage, so it’s not like this is a straightforward issue.

                And in a heavily Latinx area, the assumption that Dawn is Latina and can speak Spanish, coupled with the fact that she doesn’t like her new name (which is not her original name nor reflective of her own culture!) is a good enough reason to stop using her married name.

          2. Dawn*

            The best path is to be employed. There’s a time and a place for what you’re suggesting, but a job search is not for that.

  119. D*

    Should I leave a glassdoor review for my previous employer when it won’t be anonymous? I worked for a company that has a reputation of being an amazing company to work for. I had a very different experience. If I use my previous title it will be obvious who I am but if I don’t I don’t think my review would help people in the future. I would love to hear others thoughts.

    2. stej*

      I did it for a company I had solid references for (and who had a bad experience too), and since I was switching industries completely and was never ever going back. I know they say not to burn bridges, but I never want to work with those people again in my life.

      My company had middling reviews, so slightly different from yours, but my job title and location put me in a group of about 5 people.

  120. Not Ned Stark*

    I posted in September about my two reports, Bran and Sansa, who could not manage to work together because Bran was nit-picky critical and Sansa could not calmly accept feedback from anyone. Everyone who commented recommending getting rid of Sansa, including Alison! (Thank you, again, for your advice.)

    After a lot of ups and downs, we put Sansa on a Performance Improvement Plan in December, specifically detailing how she needs to take feedback, listen, and communicate. Because coaching hadn’t worked and she’s only been here a few months, I was allowed to go straight to the final warning. She was making an effort, but her work group gave me feedback this week that includes the same behaviors she’s warned about in the PIP, so we’ve decided to let her go now.

    Only… Sansa’s out sick today and will be out of the office Monday, so I have to wait until Tuesday to actually let her go! I was so fretful about just the PIP that I had trouble eating and sleeping for two weeks; I can’t imagine how I’m going to last four days until this meeting! HR is making some generous concessions so I don’t feel like a total monster, but the guilt is a nagging constant feeling that I could have done more, and that I don’t have “enough” justification to screw up her life. (That’s all me. My bosses and HR all absolutely agree it’s time she leaves.)

    I just keep reminding myself that I’m improving the quality of work-life for everyone who interacted with Sansa, and the overall morale of my team. I think it’s worth *me* feeling bad if it helps *them*.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      It’s hard not to feel bad, but Sansa is the one who failed to improve, not you. All your bosses and HR agree on this. Try to do some self-care on the weekend so you’re rested and refreshed for the week ahead.

  121. Anon in the Office*

    Any idea on how to keep employees focused on their tasks and motivated? I have a few employees that are great one week and barely there the next. I’ve had conversations with them all, and it seems to turn things around, but then they go back to being complacent. There is just a lack of urgency and prioritization. What I really want is for them to take ownership of their work without me (or my boss) having to check up on them all the time.

    1. Shadow*

      You’ve got to have a talk with them to find out what their goals are and show them how their work related to it. If that doesn’t work you can’t teach people to be motivated

  122. Outed Pregnancy*

    Okay, I need some calmer heads to give me some advice for handling a situation that has made me very upset.

    A co-worker “Nosey McNoserson” suspected I was pregnant (I am), snooped around online to see if I had a baby registry anywhere (I do) then went around to the people in my department asking them if they knew about my pregnancy. Another coworker, pulled me aside this morning and gave me a heads up so I wouldn’t be surprised if someone said anything. No one has said anything to me but I am getting looks and am being treated differently. Eg. I had to go down to our shipping bay to pick up a package of parts (large box but very light) and four, I repeat FOUR people decided to come help me. Normally I only get help if I ask. I had planned on announcing soon and am not sure what to do about this. The options I can think of are:

    1. Pretend I don’t know why everyone is weird and announce when I want to. Probably the most mature/professional option, but personally I don’t really like it because it lets Nosey off the hook.

    2. Say something to Nosey. Fairly professional, but I would need scripts on what to say initially and scripts for any push back. otherwise I am not very eloquent when I’m upset and if she gives me push back history says she’ll get some inappropriate for work words thrown in her face.

    3. Go to HR. We have a pretty good HR department who would care that an employee was violating others privacy and would give her a stern talking to. This seems a little extreme, maybe?

    Does anyone have any advice or other options? I’m really lost here.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I think I’d say something to Nosey.

      “Why did you think it was appropriate to look into my personal medical information and share that with our coworkers?”

    2. Dawn*

      She purposely searched out your personal business online and behind your back, spread it around your office, and you have qualms about going to your professional HR that will handle it? Go to HR, at a minimum this will put Nosey on notice that you do not appreciate this kind of behavior.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I don’t think going to HR is extreme at all, since you are now being treated differently by colleagues because of it. If your HR is good about cracking down on privacy violations, here’s a prime example for them. Nosey should have kept her (fairly obtained but not publicly known in the office) information to herself, that’s the issue. Telling other coworkers something person about you under the guise of “did you already know?” is just gossip and Not Her Business – if she was legitimately curious she would have brought the information to your attention to see whether you wanted people to know, not talked behind your back. It’s still iffy, but there’s a big difference between telling the relevant person something like “OP, I noticed there’s a baby registry under your name, you might want to be aware that people can find this on the internet” and “Jane, did you hear, OP’s pregnant! I saw the registry and everything!” The latter is HR’s problem.

    3. Elisabeth*

      I don’t think it’s so odd that she had a hunch and went online and saw you had a public (I assume) registry. The odd thing is that she went around and talked to everyone about it. That’s really, really inappropriate. I would say something to her to the extent that the choice of when to disclose pregnancy at work is a very personal and individual professional choice and it was really inappropriate that she violated that.

      As far as going to HR – it might be worth bringing up, just so they have information on this person down the road. I don’t think it breaks any workplace rules, but it shows an extreme lack of judgment, as well as kindness towards a colleague, and it might be useful information for them to have.

      1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

        I think that having a direct conversation with Nosey about how what she did made you very uncomfortable would be a way to be both professional AND call Nosey to account for her behavior. After you’ve done that, I’d say giving HR a heads-up would be a good course of action. I’m not sure it would rise to the level of something to let HR handle. I can’t say that someone finding information that’s available on a public website would really be considered an invasion of privacy, although it’s definitely super weird.

    4. ..Kat..*

      Go to HR. Nosey is going out of her way to dig up personal information and disperse this information to your colleges. This is causing you to be treated differently. Not okay.

  123. buttercup*

    This is a little after the fact, but how many people here send annual holiday greeting cards to previous managers they’ve had prior to their current job? (Assuming it was a good relationship.) I have been sending holiday greeting cards to a couple of people I worked with at my last job, because we had a good, work-friendly relationship and I still stay in contact with them. But I was wondering if this is a regular thing most people do.

    1. Quaggaquagga*

      I do this! I was quite close to these former coworkers and am interested in maintaining the relationship.

  124. Struck By Lightning*

    Have some examples of regional and/or dated terms that are common in one geographic area but offensive elsewhere?

    We’ve started doing 2-5 min diversity/EEO topics at our monthly staff meetings to keep it in the forefront of everyone’s minds. I was thinking about doing one on things people say without thinking that can be offensive to others. The obvious ones like calling people “dear” or “hon” were easy to come up with but I don’t want to only use those as examples since there is someone in the office who does that (& has reached BEC status with a couple people already).

    Suggestions? My brain is still in holiday mode!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Saying that you were “gypped” out of something to mean you were cheated. I know that when I was younger, I spelled it as “jipped” and didn’t realize the root of the saying involved the stereotype that gypsies (Romanies) are dishonest.

      I’m not sure how common of a phrase it is these days, but I know a few times I’ve seen it come up in various online circles and there are always people who are unaware of the origins.

      1. CheeryO*

        Yes, this is sooo common near me (small/mid-sized rust belt city). I try to correct people when I hear it but sometimes they look at me like I have three heads.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I’ve heard this one in this area too, and I try to call it out regardless of what people think of me. Also, “jewed” as in bargaining. “I jewed him down on that contract fee.” Ugh.

        Don’t forget “retarded.”

    2. Not Ned Stark*

      The “come-to-Jesus meeting” is/was a popular phrase in my Midwestern company for awhile. It means having a frank conversation about realities that someone else is being stubborn about. I’ve said that to friends out on the more liberal coasts and they’re surprised that anyone even mentions Jesus in a workplace!

      I was recently very surprised to learn that the phrase “call a spade a spade” is not about playing cards or gardening implements and is in fact has very racist roots. But try explaining that just makes people look at me like I’m making up Social Justice BS just to police them. :/

      1. fposte*

        The “spade a spade” thing is tricky, though, in that it *doesn’t* actually have racist roots; it originates with a translation of Erasmus in the sixteenth century. It’s one of those terms that only later (like, three centuries later) cross-pollinated with a racist doublet and then gained racist connotations. “Sloe-eyed” is another one like that; its main use is the romance-novel beauty trope of big dark eyes, but the similar sound led some regions to blend it in with “slit-eyed” as an anti-Asian term.

      2. Prof. English*

        The spade idiom predates the racist slur, so while it is often avoided in the US out of concern for seeming to use the slur, it’s not actually connected.

        1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

          Oh my gosh, I’m so glad to hear this because I just had a mini heart attack at the first comment, since I use that phrase from time to time, thinking it was referring to cards.

      3. Rookie Manager*

        In my area sometimes people will say “call a spade a shovel” which I feel defetes the whole point of the phrase.

      5. Ellen Ripley*

        The come-to-Jesus meeting terminology is fairly common in tech circles in silicon valley, from what I’ve experienced. Of course, half the valley is from the Midwest and the other half is from Asia, so…

    3. Temperance*

      I think ableist language often gets overlooked. Phrases like “wheelchair bound” instead of wheelchair user, or calling something “lame” or the r-word. I’m sure there are others out there.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Yes. I have before now asked Alison to reconsider her use of the word loons. Because it doesn’t mean a type of bird – it’s short for lunatics.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      A colleague of mine was very surprised when I pointed out that ‘sod’ was not inoffensive pseudo-swearing but was in fact short for sodomy and was basically homophobic.

      Also a lot of people think ‘bumf’ is an innocent word. Oh, we got a load of marketing bumf from them. Yeah no. It’s short for bumfluff.

      1. fposte*

        I think “bumf” is actually a shortening of “bum fodder”–IOW, fit only for toilet paper–not any actual body part.

        1. Bagpuss*

          Yes, that’s correct. Bum-fodder – as in stuff useless except for putting in the privy to use as toilet paper. It dates back to around 1650 with that meaning.

          I am not sure that ‘sod’ is necessarily homophobic – it does derive from sodomy/sodmite but words meanings do change over time – in modern (British) English is a milder version of the F-word.

      2. JamieS*

        I’ve never heard of bumf and I’m not sure how sodomy is homophobic but I always thought sod was the surface of the earth upon which grass and roots and such grow.

    6. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      People who use “retarded” to refer to something that’s dumb makes my skin crawl. And as is mentioned here from time to time, saying you’re “kind of OCD” because you are orderly or “a little ADHD” because you have trouble paying attention would be worth including too.

      1. fposte*

        Though those get into interesting territory–you yourself use “heart attack” metaphorically above, which is using a physically disabling condition as a figure of speech, so I don’t think it’s agreed that we don’t do that at all, and I don’t think it’s clear where people are drawing the line of acceptability there.

        1. Louise*

          I think there’s a difference between medical issues that are stigmatized and those that are not. Mental illness and chronic disability have a cultural weight and baggage that I feel like a heart attack doesn’t? Like, folks who have heart attacks haven’t historically had parts of their brain chopped out without their consent or been forced out of regular schooling and social interactions because of a lack of accessibility or literally experimented on and murdered in the way that folks with mental illnesses/mental & physical disabilities have.

          1. fposte*

            That’s a reasonable difference, but I’m not sure it works for the ADHD used in popular terms, or of course “narcissistic” and “sociopath” and other quasi-diagnostic uses; “gave me a stroke” is another common physical usage worth considering, if we’re discussing the pain of making one person’s health disaster into another person’s metaphor. (I thought it was really interesting, on the ostomy post, how we were trying simultaneously to say it wasn’t a big thing but kept returning to the language of waste-as-denigration in discussing it.)

            I’m actually on the other side of this in thinking that metaphorical uses don’t necessarily need to be stamped out; it’s the slurs I’m more concerned about.

            1. Louise*

              Hm, I think for me at least, beyond the issue of making one person’s pain another person’s metaphor (which I think is a great way of framing part of the problem), that it’s about making sure not to perpetuate negative stereotypes or misunderstanding. Like I think the “Oh I’m so ADHD” comments can be harmful because it implies that ADHD isn’t that serious, or it’s used as a stand in for “spacey” or “forgetful,” which is not the same as ADHD, and could potentially make someone who does have ADHD feel uncomfortable talking about it because they think others won’t take them seriously. I also think one person’s metaphor can be another person’s slur—like when people say “oh the weather is so bipolar today,” I know they’re bipolar as a metaphor to describe fluctuating weather, but as someone who has a mood disorder, it’s really hurtful to hear people use that term to describe something that’s negative or annoying or difficult. Like I’ve spent enough hours in therapy convincing myself that I’m not a burden to those I love because of my illness—hearing other people use my illness to describe actual burdens is pretty not great.

              I actually do try to avoid “narcissistic” and “sociopath” colloquially—both of those are actually medical diagnoses (narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder respectively) that are severely misunderstood, and I feel like using them metaphorically only serves to make people more confused about their actual meanings.

              1. fposte*

                It’s an interesting topic, isn’t it? I do think that if it’s about what’s hurtful, strokes, cancer, etc. that are used colloquially do have to get curbed as well. I think some of this also is that activist spaces tend to skew younger, and they don’t have that much direct experience with heart attacks and strokes and cancer, whereas they likely have or know people with less age-enhanced challenges; there’s an ironic replication of the kind of unthinking marginalization they’re arguing against. But “Dude, you gave me a stroke” from your surprised co-worker isn’t likely to be funny when you just got back to work and still can’t use your left hand; “He’s a cancer in the organization” isn’t really great to hear if you’re a cancer patient.

                Basically, I think there’s a whole conversation about metaphor and physicality that really would need to take place to make these extinctions achieve their stated aim; however, we don’t really do that about language, so I expect, as usual, it’ll all happen piece by piece and human by human.

            2. Someone else*

              FWIW, me and my severe OCD cringe when I hear people using it in the manner Queen of Cans & Jars described. I know this hasn’t yet reached “generally accepted as a not OK thing to do” status almost anywhere I’m aware of, but I’m personally very much hoping it does. I know that one data point/single offended person does not the case make for whether something in generally offensive or whether it’s reasonable to consider it such, but nonetheless, I am one.

      2. Louise*

        I think anything mental health related. The other day my boss (who is otherwise wonderfuk) made a comment about how people would have to be “literally mentally ill” to do XYZ activity. As someone who has been dealing with a (well managed but still serious and chronic) mental illness since I was a teenager, it made me cringe and feel pretty sad.

      1. Louise*

        Ugh I can’t believe people still say this. I also can’t believe people still think it’s okay to say “butt hurt” when describing disappointment.

        1. fposte*

          Except the “butt hurt” as slur thing seems to be a subsequent invention. There’s a whole lot of linguistic claims about roots of stuff that isn’t borne out–witness “calling a spade a spade” above, and other famous ones are “handicapped” and “picnic/piccaninny.”

          1. Louise*

            Sure, but I also think when it comes to daily life, I think etymology is less useful that practical usage. Like sure “faggot” originally meant “bundle of sticks,” but that’s doesn’t make it not a slur.

            1. tigerlily*

              I think there’s a difference between words that actually BECOME widespread slurs (to the point where the word’s original meaning is no longer used like faggot), and words that have never been widely used slurs, but are mistakenly thought of because someone somewhere gave them a scans aloud backstory that caught on. I’m not going to stop using the word picnic to describe eating outside on the grass, for instance, just because some person incorrectly said the root of that word is “pick a n****” and supposedly references a time when white people went out for a lovely day of lynching a black person. That’s not where the word picnic comes from.

              I honestly have no idea what butt hurt is supposed to be a slur of. I’ve never heard it used as such.

              1. Louise*

                It’s used to describe like… grievances that you find petty. “Jim is still butt hurt about not winning the softball game yesterday, he’s being so annoying about it” or, “don’t get so butt hurt, it was just a joke.”

                I’ve always taken it as connoting anal sex or submission. After fposte’s comments, I did some looking and saw that its roots are actually about spanking children, which like, I also don’t love since that’s still about submission and abuse? Like “don’t complain that you got a spanking,” which I still find super gross.

                At the end of the day, I’ve heard lots of queer folks say they don’t like the term and find it offensive, so that’s enough for me to stop using it.

    8. Louise*

      Some others might be around racial micro-aggressions—calling someone “ethnic” or “exotic” or a “diversity hire” or asking someone “where are you REALLY from”

    9. Argh!*

      This site had quite a discussion about “bloody” recently.

      I think “Scot-free” is derogatory, relating to the stereotype of Scottish people being cheapskates.

      The pot calling the kettle black refers to burnt cookware, but I won’t use the expression since it sounds like it could be derogatory.

      1. fposte*

        That’s not where “scot-free” comes from, though. I can understand avoiding terms because they sound like they might have an offensive history, but I like to be clear on the actual etymology. It goes back to Old English and it’s about being free from the payment of shot–nothing to do with the Scots, and it’s not capitalized.

        (And I think if we’re going there we have to consider the “Scotch tape” issue as well.)

      2. Reba*

        The pot-kettle thing definitely does not have to do with race. Are you saying that you avoid it out of the worry that other people might *think* it has racist overtones and thus think badly of *you* if they hear it?

        It’s such a common phrase and like, 4 centuries old that I have a hard time imagining someone not knowing it!

        On the other hand, we use a lot of speech that we probably mostly have no clue what it was originally about… as this thread shows… tenterhooks anyone?

      3. Hildegard Vonbingen*

        In the “sounds like” category, I once had to explain that the word “niggardly” didn’t mean what it sounded like; it means ungenerous, cheap. But it’s not a commonly used word, and apparently many people do not know what it means and make assumptions based on what the word sounds like. Although it’s not technically a racist word, I’ve stricken it from my vocabulary.

        I was mortified when an African American woman co-worker heard me use that word and glared at me for using it. I explained the meaning, but I’m not sure she believed me.

        Never, ever again.

    10. Struck by Lightning*

      You guys are the best! :) If nothing else, I think the amount of discussion shows how variable perspectives can be.

      It wasn’t my idea to do these little tailgate sessions, but with as on edge and stressed as everyone is these days, it may turn out to be a better idea than I initially thought. Sounds like we can all use a reminder that A) something one of us says as just a verbal short-cut with no ill or derogatory intent can be hugely hurtful to someone else and B) just because something hurts us, doesn’t mean the other person intended to hurt us. Hmmmmmmmm….maybe I need to change my plan of presentation…

  125. L Dub*

    How did you decide what you wanted to be when you grew up?

    TL:DR version. I’m pushing 37 and I’ve spent the last 17ish years doing middle management work in call center environments, and I’m definitely high performing/high functioning in those roles. About 3 months ago, knowing I was totally burned out and wanted to try out an individual contributor role, I accepted a data analytics role at a new company. (Things like staffing models, and other things that are sort of workforce management.)

    The problem? 3 months in, and I hate my new role, mostly because of the company culture. My boss, who is a director, is the epitome of a bad boss. He’s got absolutely no communication skills at all, he’s passive aggressive and wildly inappropriate. The rest of our small team goes along with it, and basically just smiles, nods and doesn’t say anything. For example, he tried to start a conversation last week about how “sometimes there are good Nazi’s” and I politely but firmly shut that mess down. He responded by turning around and IMing my co-workers about me, then gave me a crap project that he told everyone he wanted to get rid of.

    In theory, when I accepted this role, I was under the impression there would be some light project work, and opportunities to collaborate with some of our internal clients in operations, but none of that work is anywhere in sight, and I mostly spend my days refreshing existing data on spreadsheets. Needless to say, I’m not thrilled right now.

    But…now what? I could go back into management, but I’d rather not. I could stay with data analytics, but I know I like being challenged and collaborating with others, and I don’t think this is the right type of role for that. I was hashing all of this out with a friend who asked me what I really, really wanted to do, and I didn’t have any sort of answer for them.

    So, mostly just looking for advice on how you figured out your own career path. Thanks!

    1. stej*

      Data analytics can involve being challenged and collaborating with others – it just seems like your current role doesn’t allow for that. Project Manager roles tend to be more client-facing if that sounds better to you.

      I’m in a data role on a team of PMs and I get to cross over to that space a lot. I mostly work in Excel, SQL, and Tableau. I know that I really enjoy the technical aspect, so maybe it’s worth considering how much you value that part of the job.

      1. L Dub*

        I haven’t seen a lot of workforce roles that have much of a collaboration aspect, which is part of why I was so excited for this role. Then again, those have been WFM teams that have mostly been in call centers, which may be part of the problem. (As opposed to WFM teams that work with back office processing and other general data analytics teams.)

        Right now I’m really only working in Excel, we sadly don’t use SQL here, although we do use Tableau. I’ve been begging my director for a Tableau license since day one so I can start learning and building reports in there, but he still hasn’t gotten around to requesting that for me. I think I can’t even determine whether I enjoy the technical aspects or not yet, just because I don’t have a great grasp on them at this point.

    2. Shadow*

      It’s hard finding a job just based on what you want to to do (hell, I’d love to be a highly paid wine taster). The best thing you can do is try to align:
      1.what you’re naturally good
      2.Jobs in demand in your area that you qualify for
      3. What your job related priorities are (ie to what degree will you sacrifice work for life or vice versa)

    3. periwinkle*

      You might be in the right general field and the wrong work environment. You definitely have the wrong boss.

      HR workforce analytics is a hot, HOT field right now and there is a dire lack of people who have solid skills/knowledge on both workforce concerns and analytical methodology. Do you want to learn Tableau? If your employer won’t arrange a license, hey, you can still get the experience – go to the Tableau website, click the Products page, and scroll down to find the link to Tableau Public (it’s free!). Skill up and get out.

      1. Hildegard Vonbingen*

        I don’t think there’s any “might be” about the work environment! It sounds absolutely horrible. If there’s any knowledge to be extracted from that job, take it and jump ship.

        Try to isolate your variables, too: leaving aside your asinine boss (if you can psychologically factor him out), do you like the work itself? If you do, try it in a different work environment.

        It shouldn’t be too hard to find a workplace where your manager isn’t trying to start a discussion about how some Nazis are just darned nice people once you get to know them. That’s utterly bizarre and disgusting. I may have worked around people like that, but they’ve had the good sense to keep that to themselves so nobody was aware of it on the job, including me. Good.

  126. SebbyGrrl*

    Is anyone here working with VerbaLink?

    Would welcome any thoughts, insights, guidance for application documents.

    Also, I am a disabled veteran (for the purposes of this question/situation I cannot use the Chapter 31/VocRehab program but if you are aware of other VA programs I would welcome that info.)

    Desperately looking for working from home jobs/remote employment in admin., accounting or documentation, business writing.

    While not specifically a technical writer or editor, my skills lay in organizational documentation-procedure manuals/documents, reports, research, proposals, etc.

    I’ve been phishing, researching, looking but I have a feeling I don’t know where to look.

    I am using USA Jobs but, gah! Hard to find my niche there.

    Thank you!

    1. Temperance*

      Sebby, I recommend checking out the Veterans Consortium if you haven’t heard of them! Not knowing more about your specific situation, they help with discharge upgrades (if applicable!), VA benefits appeals, and more. They will also have great resources that can help with your questions here.

    3. ..Kat..*

      In the US, there are often various groups that offer support for veterans, disabled and non-disabled. They vary based on location. Please google or contact your local VA to see what is available in your area. I hope this helps. Thank you for your service. It breaks my heart that we are not doing a good job supporting those who served.

    4. Ellen Ripley*

      If you can swing it, a subscription to FlexJobs might be worthwhile. They screen all their listings so you don’t have to wade through all the junk that’s on Craigslist, indeed, etc., and most of their listings are work-at-home (some are flex schedule, part-time etc. but you can screen for just what you’re looking for).

  127. Parse*

    I’ve done reading on this site about salary negotiations, but I’m currently in the process and would like a little more reassurance. Any tips on negotiating an internal promotion? My manager (who I’ve been working with for 2 years) offered me an internal role and said that she already talked to HR, who said 10% was the highest they could go.

    1. Parse*

      I should note that if I left the company, I could get about 15-20% more than I currently make. I actually mentioned that the outside market rate was higher, and my boss said “yeah, I’d be making more too if I was somewhere else”…which threw me off.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        Then 10% maybe the highest they can go. Sometimes, when they make an offer it is firm and they can’t or won’t go higher. I think what your boss is telling you is, “This is the offer we have.”

        Are there other things you might value that you can ask for? Flex time? Or more vacation days or Professional Development money?

        The reality is that you can always try to negotiate, but that doesn’t always mean that the other people have room to move. Sometimes people really do open up with their best and only offer.

        1. Parse*

          Already have flex time, professional dev money, and good vacation time – everyone in the department gets these benefits.

          I think I just need courage and a strategy. My manager was my close coworker before she became my manager…when she was going through negotiations for her position, I remember her saying that she had to negotiate hard. It’s standard company policy to offer 10% max, but I know a few people who got more.

      2. KayEss*

        Are there any other benefits/perks you’d like that could be negotiated in lieu of higher salary? A flexible schedule, working from home a couple days per week/month, a better office or new equipment for your job, etc. If they truly can’t go any higher than 10% increase, they may be willing to work with you on something like that.

        1. KayEss*

          Whoops… too slow.

          If you already have good benefits, make sure you’re taking that into account when comparing the salary with what you could be making elsewhere… “total compensation package” and all that.

  128. Manager-at-Large*

    Due to a reorg, I am picking up some new direct reports which makes a very wide team and therefore I have been tasked to make a new org chart, creating teams under some senior people. This is not the issue.
    One of my lead candidates for a lead role, Jane, is going out on maternity soon and will likely be out for 6 months. If I make the change now, when she goes on leave I’ll end up covering her new directs while she is out – which leaves the organization that much wider – which is contrary to what my VP wants. If I go another way (another person), which would be reasonable given the other candidate(s), I’m doubting my own process – would I be discriminating due to her impending LOA?

    2. Hello...ello...ello..ello..llo..llo..lo*

      I would give the directs to Jane and then treat it as if she’s had the job all along. In other words if this reorg happened 6 months ago (before you knew about the leave) you would have given the reports to Jane and then figured out coverage during her absence. I get the terrible timing, but if she’s your top choice she’s the top choice and her leave shouldn’t be a factor (beyond the pain of the delay in her taking the team).

      Functionally you can appoint someone on her team (with her input) to help with the day to day leading of the reports with you handling personnel issues while she’s on leave.

      To answer your question, yes you would be discriminating. You need to be looking at the long game in this situation, not the immediate 3 months. If she’s the best long term manager then you know your answer.

      1. Manager-At-Large*

        of course you are right about the path to the decision – what is the best move if there is no LOA pending – and I should not let the timing – that she’d have the team for about 10 days before her due date – influence. I just needed to say it all out load I suppose

  129. SassyAccountant*

    Need advice; we are a company that bids directly or with other companies on government contracts (service related). Therefore a good majority of our employees work on these contracts and either from home OR out of the prime contractors’s offices. We have rules in place that are both company and governmental (think GSA and DCAA if those are familiar to you) for timekeeping. Yet we still have a problem. Many of our employees no matter how many times we remind them do not fill out their hours daily. This is especially a problem at the end of the month when I need to bill and we are almost two weeks into the new month and cannot bill because hours are still not forthcoming from these employees (and we are on governmental deadlines and this hurts our “scores” with government entities when we are late). Our HR Director, emails their company email address, their contractor email address, their personal email address when she starts to become desperate then finally texts and/or phone calls. Many of these people end up being repeat offenders. Anyone have any ideas how to get them to do this simple task? I wish it were up to me and not so mean to make them sit out a day without pay. It seems the only way to make it sting enough that they might listen. Any other ideas?

    1. Anony*

      Can you or your boss put them on a PIP and tell them that if they do not start putting in their hours daily their job is in jeopardy? It sounds like it is affecting the company’s ability to be paid and to get future jobs, which is pretty serious. If you can’t do that then you can start checking their hours either daily or weekly instead of at the end of the month. Don’t send a general reminder. E-mail them directly if they are one day late telling them to do it ASAP and call them during working hours if they are two days late. If that does not quickly fix the problem then start looping in their boss.

      1. SassyAccountant*

        I like the idea of calling them daily. Maybe a general case of daily “harassment” will help. I know I would hate if I got daily phone calls like that. I’d be embarrassed to be honest. Our CEO will never go for PIP. He sees these people making us money and we need to just deal. However, I will suggest the daily idea to the contract manager. She is also very keen on getting this under control. Thank you!

        1. Jerry Vandesic*

          That’s your answer then. Your company, from the mouth of the CEO, is OK with this. Don’t let this bother you, and the CEO can deal with the outcome.

      2. snowbound*

        I work at an accounting firm and I must submit my hours by 2pm the next business, and I get a reminder email at 10 am if I have not submitted the prior day’s time yet. This is a job requirement and compliance is used as a metric in evaluations and non-compliance could result in a lower pay increase/bonus and termination (if you’re out sick or on vacation you charge those codes – and you can charge vacation in advance of taking it so you can stay compliant).

        I would absolutely make sure this is made clear to your employees and do a PIP and then terminate if they do not comply.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      What would HR and/or their boss do if they were doing anything else that prevented you from billing and hurt your score with government entities?

      1. SassyAccountant*

        HR is the one that sends them constant emails, phone calls etc. Obviously they are unfazed by this. Our CEO leaves our hands tied with direct discipline as they “make us money” and it’s for us to just deal with.

    3. LadyKelvin*

      If they don’ report their hours they shouldn’t get paid. I’m not sure how that is mean. If we don’t submit our timesheets on time, we don’t get paid for those two weeks (if we submit them late, its added to the next pay period, so we still get paid but they can’t pay us if they don’t know how much we worked). The first time their pay is short they’ll start putting in their time correctly.

      1. SassyAccountant*

        We have to bill monthly so even if the pay period isn’t over but the month is, its very easy to not report your hours. So for example if the pay period is 10/22 to 11/4. On November 1st I need all the hours for October even if the pay period isn’t over so I can bill for the month of October.

      2. Natalie*

        What you’re suggesting isn’t legal. Employees have to be paid for their time worked or their salary, depending, regardless of whether or not they fill out a time card. At the end of the day, it’s the employer’s job to keep track of what they owe their employees.

  130. Master Bean Counter*

    I was wondering if anybody was having this issue:
    My company still hands out paper paychecks. (I know, I know)
    We’ve had three separate employees use the picture deposit to put the checks into their bank accounts and then turn around and cash the check.
    This seems to be the newest form of paycheck fraud making the rounds. The first two were seasonal employees that did this with their last check. They were marked do not rehire. The third is a current employee and the operations management would not fire this guy. So a new policy is in the making.
    But I’m wondering how many more people have run into this problem.

    2. Happy Lurker*

      Wow. Not yet, but we are small. We did have employees take a picture to deposit their checks, but the bank actually takes longer to make the deposit that way, so they stopped.

      1. Master Bean Counter*

        Oh the bank bounced the paper check, so we’re not out money. just the inconvenience of telling the check cashing place that they got duped and should call the cops.

    5. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      Did they at least talk to him and have him repay the funds? I’m baffled that a current employee would just double cash a check and come to work like it was no big deal. I’d like to believe that they didn’t understand how the photo deposit thing works, but I’m sure that’s giving them too much credit.

    6. KayEss*

      It seems like this is something banks haven’t really solved yet on their end, since any serious security implementation pretty much guarantees a hit to customer convenience. They seem to rely on the check issuer to notify them of offenders, particularly repeats.

      It’s also technically possible to do it by accident, so I can understand not firing an employee for a first offense as long as its corrected immediately. A policy stating that the company will notify the bank and the employee must repay the funds, and after X offenses Y action will be taken isn’t totally outrageous in this circumstance.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I’m guessing because you don’t typically have to tell people that they will be fired for committing fraud.

    8. Louise*

      Oh, I’ve heard of people doing this as fraud. I’ve also definitely had some friends who have done this completely accidentally. Do the photo deposit, forget about it, find it a few weeks later, try to deposit the hard copy. Any chance it could have been a mistake? (Seems less likely for the seasonal employees who did it with the last paycheck, but maybe for the one still employed?)

    9. This Daydreamer*

      Wow. That guy needs to be fired. Since when is attempted workplace theft not an automatic invitation to find employment elsewhere? Maybe you can use the issue to push for direct deposit.

      Of course you’d still have the jerk employee, but that one threat would be done with.

    10. Fortitude Jones*

      This problem is why my bank now put a cap on the amount of my money you can deposit on their mobile app – anything over I think a grand has to be deposited at a branch. They also now require those of us using the mobile app for deposits to write “For deposit only” on the back so people can’t bring the same check into a branch to cash later.

  131. SebbyGrrl*

    Is anyone here working with VerbaLink?

    Would welcome any thoughts, insights, guidance for application documents.

    Also, I am a disabled veteran (for the purposes of this question/situation I cannot use the Chapter 31/VocRehab program but if you are aware of other VA programs I would welcome that info.)

    Desperately looking for working from home jobs/remote employment in admin., accounting or documentation, business writing.

    While not specifically a technical writer or editor, my skills lay in organizational documentation-procedure manuals/documents, reports, research, proposals, etc.

    I’ve been phishing, researching, looking but I have a feeling I don’t know where to look.

    I am using USA Jobs but, gah! Hard to find my niche there.

    Thank you!

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      I answered one aspect of your question (about legitimate work-from-home sites) at your 1:52pm post, but I included a URL for an AAM thread. Because I provided a link, this means my post is in moderation, but since it’s a link to an earlier AAM post, I’m assuming it will eventually go through. Please check again on your 1:52pm posting later on to see if it’s there.

  132. SebbyGrrl*

    My apologies for multiple posts.

    Not sure what is going on/I am doing wrong.

    Tried to post from top at “…or add one here” but new thread goes here at the bottom?

    Is anyone here working with VerbaLink?

    Would welcome any thoughts, insights, guidance for application documents.

    Also, I am a disabled veteran (for the purposes of this question/situation I cannot use the Chapter 31/VocRehab program but if you are aware of other VA programs I would welcome that info.)

    Desperately looking for working from home jobs/remote employment in admin., accounting or documentation, business writing.

    While not specifically a technical writer or editor, my skills lay in organizational documentation-procedure manuals/documents, reports, research, proposals, etc.

    I’ve been phishing, researching, looking but I have a feeling I don’t know where to look.

    I am using USA Jobs but, gah! Hard to find my niche there.

    Thank you!

    1. Database Geek*

      Yep – new comments appear at the bottom even if you use the link at the top. That link just brings you down to the commenting form.

    2. Julianne*

      New threads do go to the bottom of the page, that’s the way comments work on this site. You aren’t doing anything wrong, no worries there!

  133. TheseDawgsAreTired*

    Anybody have a PT work from home gig that can act as a 2nd income but contribute approximately $500/month to the budget? I feel like I am too old to go back to serving/bartending but need some supplemental income for awhile.

    If you successfully have done this what type of work is it and where did you find it?

    1. H.C.*

      If you don’t mind standing around for a lot of time and live a mid- to large- city (& esp in Los Angeles), check out background acting (aka extras). It pays about $100/day (more if you decide to make this a regular thing & join a union,) and most of that time is you hanging around the location (bring a book/tablet).

      You can find this kind of work by checking with casting agencies that specialize in background actors; be wary of Craigslist-type postings.

      1. TheseDawgsAreTired*

        I am not sure about my city (on the smallish side) but definitely an avenue to look into. Thanks – I hadn’t considered something like this!

    2. TheseDawgsAreTired*

      Clarifying that I have a traditional Mon-Fri 40+ hour per week job so would need to be able to do this evening/weekends around the FT career.

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      As one possible answer to your question, please see the response I provided upthread to SebbyGrrl’s 1:52pm post. One of Sebby’s questions is similar to yours, which is why I’m referring you to my answer at her posting. (My system went wonky and this comment ended up at the bottom of the posts for the day.)

    5. Ellen Ripley*

      I just posted upthread about FlexJobs, so check that out. It’s a subscription site but you can sign up for just a month to see if it’s worth it for you. I also recently learned about an interesting opportunity: test prep companies like Princeton Review hire proctors for the simulated tests they give participants . Basically you come in on a Saturday morning, hand out the test and make sure everyone follows the rules, keep track of the time, but can otherwise study, read, whatever.

  134. @#$%!*

    I don’t know how to socialize with my co-workers. I was horrible at this in high school, and over a decade later I’m still not doing that much better.

    Background Information: I have Asperger’s syndrome and looks exactly like what most people picture when they think of a woman with Asperger’s syndrome (glasses, no makeup, bad hair, little to no facial expressions, etc.). I’m already surrounded by a lot of nerdy people with glasses and awkward senses of humor, but even then I still stick up like a sore thumb. I can pass for “quirky” with people I don’t see that often, but I’ve noticed that people I do see regularly have started to avoid eye contact with me and refuse to acknowledge me when they pass by me in the hallway. I’m convinced if I were male people would think I’m the “school-shooter type.”

    I worry because this may impact my job in that people would prefer not to work with me if they had the choice.

    1. Anony*

      Part of the problem may be that you are trying to hard to socialize. If people you know avoid eye contact in the hall, it could be that you are inadvertently trapping them in conversation and not noticing cues that they want to leave or are busy. One thing you could try is just saying hi with a smile as you keep walking. Don’t stop to chat. You can also go with a nod and a smile.

      Try keeping social interactions short. I sometimes have trouble with cues that someone is busy at work and not open to chatting, so have started saying “Well I’ll let you get back to work” or something similar early on. If they protest and keep the conversation going, great! If not, then I’m not being a pest.

      1. @#$%!*

        No, I’ve never been good at carrying conversations and am not known for being overly chatty – I think people just think there’s something “off” about me. I can think of two things that can make a lot of people uncomfortable: I have not mastered the ability to talk like an adult (in less professional settings where I’m more comfortable with who I am, I’m often referred to as “the kid”), and in my attempt to be more careful about what I say I end up coming across as too quiet – perhaps eerily so.

        1. fposte*

          Another possibility is that you’re misreading their behavior as a response to you rather than as the way they are. We’re a friendly office, but we breeze by one another in the halls all the time. I’d greet people I’m friends with out of the office as I passed, but mostly a “Hey” is the biggest acknowledgement we do and a silent pass-by isn’t uncommon. (We walk with real purpose around here, I’m realizing.)

          I’m not meaning to downplay the fact that social behaviors can make a difference and that different people have different levels of experience with them, but sometimes quietly non-socializing with co-workers is okay on both sides. See the update letter from yesterday or the day before from somebody who realized after a while her office just didn’t socialize much.

        2. Argh!*

          They probably think you’re not interested in talking to them so they don’t want to bother you.

    2. Bobstinacy*

      I have ADHD which can share a lot of the same social issues as aspergers and autism. Basically humans are a god damn mystery to me and the way that other people act and react are rarely the same as I would. Is this enough eye contact? Too much? Am I talking too much? Not enough? You sound fine but look mad and hell is trying to interpret humans.

      What will end up working for you might not be what what worked for me, but I’ll lay out my general approach to Interacting With Humans.

      1) I actively embrace being socially awkward. Like identify as awkward, explicitly state that I’m not good at humans, and when I notice that I’ve made people feel awkward I gently poke fun at myself.

      This takes a lot of pressure off my social interactions because I know that they’re going to notice that I’m weird eventually; being able to deadpan “See, I told you I’m awkward” after miscalculating a remark generally saves the moment and doubles as a self-deprecating zinger.

      2) Study people like you would an alien race. Watch others communicate and see if you can figure out what’s going on through their body language. Watch ‘normal’ work conversations and see if you can break down what’s happening.

      Most NT people have ‘scripts’ in their head for most surface level conversations and if you start to see the patterns you can learn to tap into those scripts to make the interaction easier for you.

      For example greeting a coworker is acknowledgement, pleasantries, response.

      “Hi Wakeen, how are you? I’m excellent thank you”

      Most NT people will do this without thinking about it, I on the other hand had to break it like an unsatisfying code.

      3) Remember that every person you talk to is just as wrapped up in their own head as you are in yours. Co-workers might walk by you in the hallway and not say anything which to you is them avoiding you. To your coworker they might be thinking “Why do they need a special cover sheet for TPS reports, such a waste of time. Who was that? Ah @#$%!, she must be heading to Teapot Distribution.”

      4) This ones the hardest, because at the end of the day having these kinds of social difficulties does have a negative effect on my life. Getting jobs, making friends, having romances, etc all depend on social interactions.

      So I spend a lot of time faking it. I figured out fashion, learned about make up, read a lot of books about humans (sociology, psychology, and anthropology), read a lot of blogs (advice blogs are great for getting an inside look at the workings of social problems NT people have), and generally put a lot of effort into making NT people comfortable.

      @#$%! your problems are not insurmountable, I promise. The best advice I can give is to find a kind of peace with yourself; once you’re okay with who you are it’s hard for other people to shake your confidence.

  135. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

    I’ve been assigned to provide an “Education Series” this quarter at work. It basically amounts to an informational article/hand-out and a quiz.
    I’ve done two previously on “Email Etiquette” and “Soft Skills”.

    I’m drawing a blank…

    Any thoughts?

    2. Mockingjay*

      Related: Desk Ergonomics. Recycle those old paperback software guides from the 90’s by using them to lift your monitor height. [ask me how I know this ;) ]

      Who Do You Ask? – you know, the POCs for the little questions that come up six months after you are hired. Or that you’ve been working there so long you’ve forgotten.

      Related: Where Is It Stored? Quick links to forms, company newsletter, insurance, or other stuff.

      1. Sylvan*

        Sharing a “Who Do You Ask?/Where Is It Stored?” document was one of my Greatest Hits as an admin assistant.

    3. KayEss*

      Effective presentations? No matter how many “how to make a PowerPoint that looks decent” workshops are held, there always seem to be people who need them… badly.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Client interaction etiquette! If you’re client-facing or you have people who are, the first couple of meetings can be really nerve-wracking. When I took junior people to client meetings, I used to pull them aside beforehand and go over things like what to wear, how I was going to introduce them, where they should sit, etc. When I type it, it sounds kind of infantilizing, but I did it because I wish my mangers had done the same for me. My reports always felt so much more comfortable after we talked about it. Even now, before my first client meeting in my current role, my boss brought up what he would be wearing before I had a chance to ask, and I am so grateful he thought to do that.

      Tough conversations with co-workers, or, How To Politely Ask Jane To Stop Microwaving Fish.

      How to Make an Executive Summary Slide: I once had a client whose internal client would only read a single slide with five bullet points. We always had a ton of findings from our work, so it took real effort to pare things down in a way that got everything across.

    8. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

      Thank you everyone!
      Almost all of these are applicable to my specific workplace. I’m making notes on all of them since I know I’ll be tapped for future educations too.

  136. Lizabeth*

    Our corporate office has done something completely mind boogling…they are in the process of selling the company, probably screwing everyone they owe money, that should be finalized by the end of January. However…

    We have been pushing back about vacations, healthcare etc with the new company and found out mid-week that the buyers don’t offer healthcare but provide a “stipend” of about $800/month towards it. And said buyers do this with their own employees. What was the mind blowing part is “they weren’t planning to tell us” when the insurance lapses, much less inform anyone that is COBRA with them!

    WHAT CAN THEY BE POSSIBLY THINKING???? There is no incentive for us to stick around. And the buyers are going to keep they on as managers even though they are the ones that put the company in the position it’s in.

    Definitely time to kick the job hunting into hyper gear but I have one question: should I be talking to a lawyer?

    2. Samata*

      I am guessing it varies depending on individual circumstance, but my insurance coverage when I was self-employed was less than half of that stipend, so at $800 a month I could have paid medical/dental and had a nice HSA with the balance to go towards expenses. BUT I was only paying for one person.

      I do, think, though, this is a HUGE thing that you should communicate to employees at the beginning of the transition, especially if you are being laid off and COBRA will be coming into play for you and many other employees. I never understand decisions like this, but I know they are common. When I went through a big layoff they were overly generous at the time with the explanations of how things would work, what expenses I should expect to have, etc. At the time I was annoyed because I just wanted to get out of there, but now that I hear stories like these over and over I am so thankful.

    3. Anony*

      I’m not sure what a lawyer can do for you. A stipend to buy personal insurance is not illegal. If they hadn’t told you that your insurance was ending then that would be a problem, but they did tell you or at least you found out before it sounds like anything was finalized so you can’t prove that they would not have told you. Job hunting seems like a good idea, but a lawyer would probably be a waste of time (and money).

  137. Juggling Job Seeker*

    I’ve read the posts on juggling a job offer while waiting for another, but still have a question. I emailed Job A on Wednesday, two weeks after the second interview, to ask about a timeline update (have yet to get a response). Job B offered me a position on Thursday and needs an answer within a week. Should I email Job A again and let them know about the offer, or would that be overkill? Also I want to cc the person I had the second interview with, she is the hiring manager’s boss, but I’m not sure if that would be appropriate (I interned at Job A and personally know the director I want to cc).

    1. Courtney*

      I was going to say it would be overkill until the very end – in my opinion, the fact that you interned at job A and personally know the director you would be CCing make it a bit different. How well do you know the director? I’m wondering if it might be better to reach out to them and ask if they have any insight on the timeline due to a job offer you’ve received.

  138. Annon for this*

    I am struggling with a household employee (cleaner). I am debating on firing her immediately, or waiting a couple months. She’s ok, not great at cleaning; but I found beer cans in my trash. Last month, the bag ripped when throwing it away and 3 cans were visible. It is not a brand I have even heard of so I know it’s not mine . This week I looked for the cans and found them the night she cleaned.
    She will be gone for other reasons, but now I am concerned that she is drinking at my house, while performing services and is a pretty big liability.
    Do I bother speaking with her, and letting her know I found the beer cans and she need to improve, or should I just let her go?

    1. Samata*

      Do you live alone? Like is there any way on the planet they could be someone elses?

      I only ask because I would let her go over this, espeically if there were other concerns about her services/behavior. Drinking on the job isn’t something I am will to tolerate. What if she has an accident on property or on the way home? Even if she says 3 beers doesn’t make her “drunk” the legal system might not agree. Would you be liable if she drank at your house and then got in the car?

      1. fposte*

        I’ll let the local lawyers weigh in, but I doubt she’d be liable; she’s not in control of her cleaner’s actions (and I bet the cleaner is an independent contractor, not an employee).

        That being said, I don’t want drinking on the job in my house, and I don’t want my garbage to be used to dispose of secret cans if it’s stuff that got drunk elsewhere. Since she’s already not great at cleaning, I would end this.

        1. Annon for this*

          My biggest concern is that she will stumble down my stairs and hurt herself at my home.
          To each his own, but 3 cans of beer between 9-noon is more than I can fathom.

          1. fposte*

            Yes, I hadn’t thought about your liability for on-site injury; I would worry about that too.

    2. Temperance*

      Beer cans are recyclable, not trash! I would probably fire her if she’s doing a bad job.

      FWIW, I’m considering firing our cleaning service because I found out that one of the cleaners tried to give one of my pets a treat after I specifically warned them not to go near/mess with her because she hates strangers and she bites.

      1. Annon for this*

        Yes, that annoyed me too that she was throwing away recyclable cans. She also lets my dogs out of the kennels after I told her that one of them bites and to leave her alone.
        I find that good cleaners so hard to find. I have had some that are great, but they left for better professions when the recession turned. I seem to be left with a slew of not good ones
        Temperance, glad to see I am not alone in the search for cleaners that will listen to direction.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          OK, that alone is reason to fire her. Anyone who disregards my instructions about my dog will not be allowed back in my home. I don’t care if “nothing happened”. If I ask you to leave a light on and you forget, fine, I understand that. If you put something away in the wrong place, I’ll let it slide. But you do not disregard me when it comes to my doggy. This goes for my own parents.

          2. L Dub*

            omg, I’d fire someone immediately if they disregarded my instructions about my dogs as well.

          3. Annon for this*

            I just found out about the dog being let out Wednesday. The same day I found the second stash of beer cans. She was so busy telling me she had the flu for three weeks in December, while she was working (also note the same time I found the first stash of beer) that I forgot about the dog being let out. When Temperance mentioned it, I remembered!
            You are all so right. She will not be back.
            I have been looking at the FB group for cleaners, someone posted for recommendations yesterday. Which, is why I posted here today. Thank you all for the reality check. I will be calling those other cleaners post haste.
            AvonLady – my parents have also been fired from granddoggie duty.

        2. Temperance*

          Oh HELL no. I would fire her. That’s ridiculous. Does your town have an FB group? I’ve found good recommendations there.

          1. Annon for this*

            Oh HELL you are right. Why did I even think about it twice?
            Except that it is someone’s income and I always feel bad taking that away, even when they deserve it by doing a bad job after repeated redirection.

            1. Temperance*

              No, I totally appreciate that side of it! Personally, I was so lit after that woman told me that she tried to give my ferret a treat that Booth had to calm me down before I called her boss.

          2. Hildegard Vonbingen*

            Also, look into Nextdoor, the website. You can read and post about neighborhood issues, services, lost pets, people selling things (such as used furniture & household equipment in near-new condition at terrific prices). I’ve seen many, many posts for house cleaners, along with comments from neighbors giving recommendations. It’s free, and I find it useful. You can just scroll on by the stuff that doesn’t interest you.

            I’ve hired, with great success, landscapers, a fence-installer, and an exterior painter based on recommendations posted to Nextdoor.

    3. Anony*

      If you already decided to let her go for other reasons it seems reasonable to move up the timetable given what you found. If you don’t feel comfortable having her in your home that is reason enough.

      1. Annon for this*

        I do not live alone, but they are not my SO’s beer or anyone else. Neither one of us have ever seen the brand before. They are sitting in the vacuum debris and disposable gloves she uses for cleaning.
        The liability of her drinking on my property (from 9-noon) and then driving or even walking and falling down my steps scares me. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t jumping the gun letting her go before speaking with her about it. I was going to speak with her, again, about my expectations, but I think I can and should just skip that conversation.
        She has been strange to speak with and I just though she was quirky and kind of excitable in an over caffeinated, puppyish way. She is a middle aged woman, if that makes any difference, not a kid who needs to understand something for the first time.
        Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate that you reinforced my instinct.

    4. k.k*

      Since there are other good reasons you are considering letting her gone, I wouldn’t bother mentioning the cans at all. If that were not the case, I would at least ask her about it on the far off chance that there was some reasonable explanation.

      1. Annon for this*

        KK – yeah, I was sort of thinking that too.
        I also have been trying to wrack my brain how having 3 beers in 3 hours at a client’s home can be reasonably explained. Now the 6pm crazy texts make more sense.

    5. Language Lover*

      You’ve already made your decision and I think it’s the right one.

      But my first thought was not that she’s drinking on the job but that she’s bringing along a SO or someone else who is drinking/hanging out while she cleans because they have nowhere better to be. That’d be a no go even without the drinking if they didn’t arrange it first.

      1. Annon for this*

        See, LL you already gave an explanation I would not have thought of. I have been there about half the time when she shows up. It has been alone. I am sorely tempted to install internet cameras, but I do not have the time.

  139. Fabulous*

    So we’re doing month-long training sessions (3 hour-long sessions per day) training our workers on the new integrated system. My supervisor is leading the training, then we also have an in-house trainer, and then me – I am at times a back-up trainer, but I mostly handle admin tasks and quality assurance. I’ve been acting as a de-facto trainer for these sessions since it’s completely new and we’ve got ~30 people to get on board. Today my supervisor gave me a compliment at how well I’ve been doing, especially taking extra time with people who missed days or just have a lot of questions. She praised my patience and was even getting teary eyed! I’m glad she sees something that I don’t, LOL!

  140. Environmental Gone Public Health*

    I am an environmental/ecology scientist that has switched from air/water quality to public health. I really enjoy public health in that I like working with people to start making changes in their communities. The unsafe housing part of it is emotionally draining, however.

    My husband has submitted an application to join the Navy as an officer, and if everything goes as planned, he’d be going to OCS in March, followed by his program’s school, which could be another 12 weeks to 2 years depending on the program (his choice of program is about 9-12 months).

    I’m hoping to get into more remote consulting work in the environmental field, specifically with community-based programs (the entirety of my MS was focused on social norms and how we can use them in environmental issues to effect change). Does anyone have any experience in this? The programs around my current geographic area have really been based in either DNR or county-level gov’t, which wouldn’t be awful, since I’ve been gov’t my whole career, but the pay is usually awful and the atmosphere very inflexible.

    There was one consulting firm that I interviewed a couple times for over a period of a couple months, but they were very wishy-washy, couldn’t decide what they would be doing with me (they originally were going to create a whole new position for me), and couldn’t decide on vague start dates or compensation. By the end it came off as though they really just wanted my network.

    (Also, probably part of my anxiety about this is the lifestyle change that becoming a military family will require. I’m excited, but also terrified of not being able to find work or continually having to be entry-level.)

    1. KR*

      Honestly the good news with being a Navy spouse is that most Navy bases are on coasts (unless he gets stationed on a USMC base) which tend to be areas with more business and commerce. Good luck, signed a USMC spouse.

      1. Environmental Gone Public Health*

        I am ridiculously excited to be traveling! And for the coasts! I get antsy in one spot for too long. And I love the ocean. I was in northern Wisconsin doing lake studies and it’s been jarring to be in Not-Wisconsin and have no lakes by me. I couldn’t even figure out why I was feeling so bleh until we went sight-seeing and I waded in one of the only actual lakes in the area.

        1. Happy Lurker*

          We have a long time family friend who is married to a now retired military spouse. She ended up working for the federal government, all over the world. When her spouse transferred, so did she. She retired fairly high level a year after her spouse. They lived in New England, Germany and retired in the western US after their last post.
          Best of luck to you.

          1. Environmental Gone Public Health*

            Thank you!

            What I see a lot on forums is the incredible amount of difficulty for mil spouses to get jobs. I let it get to me a bit too much, perhaps. It’s disheartening to see over and over again the comments that if your spouse is military, better give up your entire career! So it is good to hear about couples/families where that definitely wasn’t the case.

    2. purple orchid pot*

      Have you considered becoming an Environmental Health Officer (thus also joining the military) or entering the Public Health Service Commissioned Corps (another uniformed service)?

      1. Environmental Gone Public Health*

        Huh – in my area, the county health departments are headed by Health Officers, which are elected officials. I’ll have to look into the groups you’ve mentioned – I have no desire to go military myself (I enjoy spontaneous trail rides a bit too much, plus have some health issues they wouldn’t like most likely), but I had never heard of PHSCC! Getting something that I could get reassigned to another location would be great! Especially if it doesn’t involve unsafe housing inspections. My heart can only take so many sad, dirty, cold little children and animals.

        Thanks :)

  141. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

    I worked last two weeks from my company office, and now I’m back at the client. I was really heartbroken when I was told to return. On the bright side, the most annoying people here are on holiday abroad, so there’s almost no difference. I hope this lasts until February.

  142. Annon for this*

    I do not live alone, but they are not my SO’s beer or anyone else. Neither one of us have ever seen the brand before. They are sitting in the vacuum debris and disposable gloves she uses for cleaning.
    The liability of her drinking on my property (from 9-noon) and then driving or even walking and falling down my steps scares me. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t jumping the gun letting her go before speaking with her about it. I was going to speak with her, again, about my expectations, but I think I can and should just skip that conversation.
    She has been strange to speak with and I just though she was quirky and kind of excitable in an over caffeinated, puppyish way. She is a middle aged woman, if that makes any difference, not a kid who needs to understand something for the first time.
    Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate that you reinforced my instinct.

  143. Dagnabbit*

    Hello all! First time posting, but I’ve been lurking for a few months. I am taking the bar exam next month and I am so stressed about it I feel sick. I mean, I know that I’m prepared–I’ve been prepared since July but was unable to take it then–and I’m actually probably over-prepared in all honesty. I guess I’m just afraid that I’ve been so out of the zone of all things legal related at this point that I’m going to choke when it comes time to perform on the day of the essay exam. I just want it to be over with!

    2. Temperance*

      Dagnabbit, you got this! Bar exam prep was honestly one of the worst times in my life. I remember yelling at Booth that a friend of mine “obviously” wanted me to fail because she invited me to Quizzo, and didn’t she know that I HAVE TO STUDY PROPERTY RIGHT NOW OR I WILL FAIL?

      Take care of yourself. Hot showers, low-stress, feel-good TV shows like Fuller House, and making sure you’re eating well are sanity-savers. I sometimes joke that Danny Tanner helped me pass the bar, lol.

    3. Kuododi*

      I have no advice as I am in a completely unrelated field. I am having sympathy pains as I do remember how ugly things were preparing for my national boards for my counselor’s license. I’m wishing peace…quick recall and low stress. Many blessings to you!!!

  144. A.N. O'Nyme*

    So, I’m fairly certain I already know the answers I’m going to get for this one, but here goes.
    A friend of mine works in a chain store. The owners of said chain have made some pretty stupid decisions, resulting in their shares losing value. So the CEO decides that the best way to fix this is…Go shout at the storefront employees (doesn’t have anything better to do, apparently). In one month he did so twice (that I know of), and the second time he did so WHILE THERE WERE CUSTOMERS IN THE STORE. Last I heard the employees were planning on talking to the union (we’re not in the US) and a few of them were seriously considering resignation. Any other tips on what they can do?

  145. Cute Li'l UFO*

    Beginning the New Year with another job hunt but full of hope. I learned a lot from reading AAM over the last couple years and from the last couple jobs I’ve had and I’m so glad that I’ve learned that I really don’t have to take the idea that I’m expendable or the fall guy.

    I’m really excited–I know more about exactly what I’m looking for and I’m much more confident now.

  146. lia*

    Any good resources on figuring out what kind of job to go into next? I’m a lab scientist turned project manager who’s tired of solving other people’s problems/firefighting. Can’t go back to the lab (no PhD, so upward movement is limited), and I’ve got plenty of great skills (communication, project planning, etc.) but don’t know how to find something better suited to my personality.

      1. Not that Anne, the other Anne*

        Technical writing, communication, maybe even IP transfer or marketing, depending on your skillset. Academic and private sector employers need people who can explain the science. Dr. Grizzbot may be fabulous at finding dessert tortoises, but not at explaining why we should care about dark chocolate versus creme brûlée tortoises.

    2. Snark*

      What field? I’m an ecologist and ended up doing environmental compliance work – technical documents, reviews, surveys, that kind of deal.

    3. Argh!*

      Do you really want upward movement anyway? That would entail solving other people’s problems and putting out fires.

  147. Nessabee*

    So, my boss told me to come in today to work with a coworker, Marcella, doing some kind of data entry. I get in around 11:30 and she’s not here, and neither is my boss. After some pleasantries with my coworker about the holidays, I text my boss, asking if he knows when Marcella will be in.

    I’ve just sat at my usual desk browsing the Internet or playing my DS until I finally get a text back over an hour later saying that Marcella is sick today and he will be back at the office soon.

    This is not the first time I have come in to work and there ends up being no work for me to do, but it is the first time that my boss specifically asked me to come in when there’s nothing to do. I can’t do it myself because I don’t know what needs to be done.

    I had told my boss earlier that I should only come in when the writer comes in again because I’ve caught up to him on the project we’re working on. Fortunately, he’s back Monday, but I still could have used this day to work on my website, resume and cover letters for other jobs I’m applying for!

    I know this job is awful and I’m trying my best to find other, more reliable work. I want to start a family soonish, but I can’t afford to if I’m working a part time, low-wage job with no guaranteed hours or benefits.

  148. Ann O'Nemity*

    In the last month I have gotten half a dozen calls from charities requesting donations – on my work telephone number. This number is not posted publicly anywhere, not even on my email. They know my extension and ask for me by name, so this isn’t some random auto-dialing. This has never happened to me before on my work telephone number! Is there some traded or sold charity calling list? If so, how did I get on it and how do I get off? I had a hallway conversation with one of the IT support staff, and he didn’t know how to help since it’s never the same charity twice.

    1. fposte*

      I believe that there are many, many traded and sold charity lists, and they are, like any other demographc list, an industry of their own. AFAIK, there’s no way to reliably get off them because they’re not centrally disseminated.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      If you’ve donated to a charity in the past, they may have sold or rented your info to other charities. If you’ve ever given a charity your work number, that may help you narrow down who it was. (The way it works is, if I’m fundraising for a charity devoted to saving llamas, for example, I want to reach people who have donated to like-minded causes in the past. So I might rent membership lists from charities devoted to protecting goats and sheep, figuring that they might be a receptive audience.)

      When you donate to charities, you can ask them to mark your record as “do not share” and they have to abide by that and exclude you from any future list rentals they do.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Thanks, that helps!

        I’m sure I’ve never given my work number (with extension!) when donating to a charity. But maybe serving on a board for a community organization?

        1. Someone else*

          It’d be weird for someone to include board in a shared list pull, at least against best practices, but it could be that org doesn’t follow best practices. Or it could’ve been a newbie pulling the list and messed up. But once you’re shared…you’re shared.

        2. Observer*

          Well, other charities are not the only place that charities rent their lists from. So, if your number is ANYWHERE, some list maker / seller could have scraped it. What makes this worse is that there are enough services that ask you to share your contact list, so if someone you work with and has your work contact information in their contact list said “yes” to that request that’s all you need to get stuck with this.

  149. Not really a Waitress*

    I left my very Toxic Job almost 4 months ago. I haven’t found full time permanent employment yet. But I am good with that. My not healthy mom moved in with me before I quit. She was actually the catalyst behind me leaving. i have a part time job that provides insurance and have flexibility to take care of my mom. I am frustrated that I haven’t found another job yet but anytime I second guess my decision to quit I hear about something that happened at old Toxic job or see an old post on FB that reminds me how horrible it was.

    When I left all three on site owners asked for feedback,even so far as to giving me an exit interview form to fill out. I was deliberately vague in my comments and responses. I know they wanted feedback, but I felt too emotional at the time . Now I am 120 days out, and I wonder if it would be beneficial to provide that feedback now. There are two owners who are not onsite who may not have any clue what is going on.
    My emotions have subsided and I feel now that I would be able to present with more professionalism and better feedback. Although there is lot that they will not want to hear.

    Is it worth giving them the feedback now?

    1. Kathenus*

      If you’re at a place where you feel that you have useful feedback, and they had genuinely seemed to want it when you left, I think reaching out to offer additional comments might be welcome. You could contact them and say that you have some additional thoughts and feedback to share if they are still interested, and see if they take you up on the offer. Good on you for being willing to do this, and waiting until you are in a place where you could offer it in a more productive way now that you have some distance from the situation.

    2. Anono-me*

      I think.that you should leave it alone.
      This place was so toxic that you quit without a new fulltime position lined up; Going back and offering more transparent unsolicited feedback probably won’t be enough to change anything. And you may need these people for a reference or something down the road. (Also going back now without a new fulltime position could be misinterpreted as a weird reaction to not having a FT position yet.)

  150. Wonderfully Confused*

    I have been at my current job for a little over a year and lately my supervisor has made some comments in our one-on-one meetings that have me a little concerned.

    I think the biggest thing that is bugging me is that my supervisor made mention that I may never move up in the company due to office politics. They explained since they already asked for one new position to be in our department in November of 2016 that they can’t ask for another one to be created until at least a few years (think 5 or 6) have passed by. I work as the receptionist/hr assistant and when I accepted this position it was with the understanding that I would be able to move into a more hr orientated position. Now, I am not so sure that is going to happen since it seems my supervisor seems more concerned about office politics then helping me grow in my career.

    So, at what point do I give up waiting and start job searching for an opportunity more aligned with my career goals? My biggest concern is that I don’t want to look like a job hopper on my resume since I have been here for just over a year and that it is my first job out of college.

    1. fposte*

      You get a lot of latitude for a first job from college, especially if the next one is clearly a growth step. I think you’re getting a clear message that I would take as true. If I otherwise really loved the job I wouldn’t leap to departure–not moving up after a year isn’t unusual, and you may be able to learn a lot in another year there–but if it’s just meh I’d say you could start to look for a better opportunity now.

    2. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      I’d say you can probably start looking after 18 months, since it often takes time to find something new. And if you’re a little short of 2 years for your first job out of college, that’s okay.

    3. Argh!*

      I suppose picking out the job you want and adding rat poison to that person’s coffee isn’t an option. (but I thought I’d mention it!)

    4. Fortitude Jones*

      Start looking for a new job now. Your boss pretty much told you you aren’t going anywhere in that particular department, so you should take her at her word. Like fposte said, since you’re a relatively new grad, employers won’t be quick to label you a job hopper since it’s not unheard of for first jobs after college/university to be starter jobs. Plus, you have no idea how long your job search will take, so you could end up actually leaving this place closer to two years in, which isn’t bad.

      1. Jerry Vandesic*

        +1: no need to wait. If you find something quickly, good for you. Since you are not desperate, you can wait until you find something that is a good fit for where you want to go in your career.

  151. Cafe au Lait*

    I return from maternity leave in a few weeks and I’m not ready. It looks like if my husband and I are willing to live on a very strict budget (no eating out, no fun purchases), I can stay home for a couple more months. I’m all ready to jump except for this: I don’t want to be Mommy-tracked at my job. So far everyone has been great, my grandboss and my great-grandboss were happy that I was taking the full time available to me. Going on unpaid leave might be a different story. I know they’ll be supportive, but it’s the unconscious bias I worry over. “Oh, Cafe au Lait can’t do this; she’s got a kid and won’t make the time for this task.”

    I want to move ahead at my job, and I”m afraid by staying home longer I’m losing chances of promotion.

      2. No Name Yet*

        Yeah, FWIW, I took 11 weeks of maternity leave – week 8 felt VERY different than week 11. I was ready to go back, but I wouldn’t have been 2+ weeks earlier. And I agree with Enough that coming back part-time for a few weeks might help the transition.

  152. Rumple Fugly*

    Ok, so what do you do when your manager doesn’t pay attention or remember things, then is often upset with their team because of it?

    Our spent today in a huge huff, eventually pulling us into a meeting to address that we hadn’t done a major thing she asked us to do. Only we had, a few weeks ago. We’d had meetings with her to go over what she wanted, made a plan, did the thing, shared it with her, she was happy with it. We’d had in person meetings, email exchanges, and then put it in the department’s file sharing system where all our mutual work always goes. When we pointed that out, she exasperatedly told us that she’s busy and can’t be expected to remember past conversations, she gets too many emails to look one up again later, and the project was “hidden and buried” in the file share for her because she would have to look for it among the handful of other projects currently kept in there.

    This happens a lot, and the attitude always seems to be that we expect too much attention from her and she should be able to instantly find things without having to remember anything or look for them. Again we asked what way we should share things with her that will help her out, and she said putting it in the file share, and then when we mentioned it was in the file share she complained that it’s not organized enough for her to find things. It’s very well organized, has very few things in it, and… She’s the one who organized it. It ended with her basically saying “fix it,” and god help me if I know how I can fix this bonkers expectation.

    Stuff like this happens all the time and I don’t know how to respond. I’m increasingly getting defensive, which doesn’t help. And yeah “blah blah not going to change” but I ain’t leaving over this, so I need to find a way to handle it when it happens over and over and over in quick succession. No, I don’t think there is a way to change our work flow or presentation that will work for her. This is just something we’ll all have to deal with, I’m just not sure how to respond to it anymore.

    1. Argh!*

      Your boss is my boss! Except that my boss will remember every slight or every mention of something not-so-good so she has passive aggressive ammunition in case you bring up something that turns out to be her fault.

      1. Rumple Fugly*

        Again, be that as it may, when you have to sit in a meeting with this happening you still have to respond to it somehow.

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      Well, the only solution I can think of will require one more conversation with your boss about how she thinks about the information topics each of these projects represent. So, I’m assuming that your organization has a file naming convention, but that it isn’t 20 bazillion characters long, right? So, after the file name, you all can insert keywords in parentheses as part of the file name, but the important thing here to remember is that they are the sort of keywords your boss is more likely to remember, not you. So, for example, let’s say the topic of the major thing was “Undersea Looms training” which is set to happen this year on Jan. 25. So the file name gets titled “20180125_Undersea_Looms (underwater, weaving, training)” When she goes to your shared drive to look for the file, ideally she’ll type in a keyword in the search box (I’m assuming you all have this kind of setup where your shared drives are keyword-searchable) and the system will return all folders to her containing that keyword. So she goes from several dozen files to just a handful to have to look through. She’s clearly overwhelmed, so adding keywords to the file name *should* provide her with an easy-to-use filtering device. Hope this helps.

    4. zora*

      If you’re not willing to leave, then I think you only have two options:

      1. Get over it. Expect that it will happen, and go through the motions every time, and learn how to let it roll off your back and not get frustrated by it.

      2. Try taking it on with her one-on-one in a professional and very specific way.
      Basically I’m thinking you talk to her about how much it hurts the team (morale and time lost) when she gets angry because she can’t find something. And ask her “Can we find a different way to deal with this? Can you come to me and ask me if something is done before you get upset with us? If you ask me ‘What happened with X?’ I’ll be happy to point you to the right folder on the drive right away so that you don’t have to waste your time looking.”

      You could also try to logic her a little more: “We have never forgotten to do something you asked us to do, so it would help us a lot if you could give us the benefit of the doubt that we did do it, and ask us where to find it instead of getting upset with us.”

      Then once you’ve had this conversation, anytime she pulls this again, your immediate response can be, “As we’ve discussed before, this is right here on the drive. Can everyone else go back to what they are working on, and I’ll go over what happened with this project with you?” The idea is to be able to cut to the chase instead of everyone spending time in these long meetings about it each time, which doesn’t completely stop the problem, but attempts to mitigate the damages as much as possible.

    5. Kathenus*

      Ideally she would respond in a more constructive way and take responsibility for this, but since she won’t, and she directed you to ‘fix it’, suggest adding a folder in the file share for new documents. Then you could put the file in the normal location, and also put a copy of it in the ‘new’ documents section so that’s all she’d have to look in for current projects. I know that puts the responsibility on you versus her, but it might be a relatively easy way to follow her ‘fix it’ directive and maybe reduce some of her crazy behavior by making it (even more) simple to find.

    6. Student*

      Since you are not willing to look for a new job, you have two remaining options:

      (1) Learn to accept that this is part of working for your boss.
      (2) Actually try to fix this for her.

      I think 1 is your best option here. It drives me bonkers when people do this too, I get it. Sometimes, part of working with a difficult boss is accepting that they will blame you for stuff you didn’t actually do wrong. I deal with this by being very confident in my own ability to assess whether an issue is actually the boss lashing out vs. a problem with me or my work, and seeking occasional external validation of that from colleagues to try to keep myself grounded in reality. If you can view it as a character flaw of your boss instead of an insult to your work, it might help. She likes being able to explode at you all periodically; you are employed partially to be her captive audience in her little periodic drama in her head about how she’s “a wonderful boss surrounded by idiots”.

      If you want to go with option #2, fixing it, I can offer you one insight and one suggestion. No promises that it’ll fix this. Insight: this is not a computer problem, this is a human problem – it will not be fixed with a more clever organization scheme in your share drive or a better-crafted email to your boss. Suggestion: start having more in-person discussions with her. Ask open-ended things, like what’s her top priority for the week or whether she needs updates on any of your projects. Give her verbal project status updates that are very short – one sentence, better if one word. The idea is to give her much smaller dumps of info, and to give her a chance to ask about stuff that she is worried is off-track before she explodes. If she gets a chance to ask about the project you’ve completed a while ago in a lower-key way, she may have less of a dramatic reaction when someone points out to her that she was already briefed on it weeks ago. If she has a smaller, more frequent audience it may also help defuse her desire to create occasional department spectacles.

  153. WorkfromHomeHopeful*

    Hi AAM Community! I just learned about this site and it has been a true Godsend as I try to stay positive in my current job and look for a better one – thank you to all of the commenters for that! I work remotely and need to continue doing so, but am stumped after a year of looking on how to to do this! I am in marketing and my field is Finance, but I can flex to almost any industry. Does anyone have any good strategies or websites that can help? Thank you again!

    1. Victoria, Please*

      This is a pretty broad question. Can you narrow down the kind of help that would be most useful to you? Right now you’re kind of saying, “Whatever! Anything!” and I expect that may be why you haven’t gotten much response.

  154. The Rat-Catcher*

    HUGE work win today! Our outdated, annual appraisal system with a numerical score and template-based competencies, is being replaced by a system of yearly conversations about what workers want to accomplish in their jobs, what supervisors need them to accomplish, and what they want their professional development to look like, followed by monthly conversations about those goals and how they’re being met (or not).

    1. Argh!*

      This is a trend! There are several articles in the Harvard Business Review about companies that have gone to this kind of system. I hope it works for you.

      1. The Rat-Catcher*

        I’m so excited for it! A little disappointed that a couple of the supervisors were complaining today about it being more work. Um…yes? Because that’s your job?
        I’m one of the lucky few that was already having these conversations with my sup (who is high up enough to back up her praise with action), but I think everyone should be getting to do this.

    3. SL #2*

      We don’t have monthly check-ins, but we do essentially the same thing at annual review time. You fill out your worksheet with your answers, your boss fills out their version, and then you sit down with each other and essentially have a conversation and merge the two documents, and that’s what gets turned in to HR. Boom, done.

  155. Overeducated*

    It’s Friday? Really? This has been a bizarre week (holiday, snow delays, leave, and a weekend event), I have no idea what day it is. Thank goodness schools weren’t closed again today though, my whole family needs to just get out of the house and interact with other humans at this point.

    The latest news on the news we’ve been waiting for is…still waiting. I’m just starting to prep a talk and demonstration for a job interview in my home state in a little under 3 weeks, but my heart isn’t really in it, I want the jobs for me and my spouse within commuting distance! Spouse doesn’t even have the interview scheduled yet, not sure why they called in mid-December to ask if there was interest in scheduling if they were going to wait another month to get back in touch. Best case: academic timelines are strict and frustrating. Worst case: they decided not to offer an interview anyway.

  156. Argh!*

    Wheeeee!!!! I was contacted for an interview for a job I applied for in October. They are notoriously slow (I’ve applied for jobs with them before) but I was ready to give up. There are many many reasons why I’m tempted to stay where I am, but my boss, grandboss, grandboss’s advisor, my supervisee, and some of my coworkers are reasons why I want out.

    Waking up earlier for a longer commute vs. taking a nap when I get home from my 15 minute commute because my workplace is so toxic? Hmmmm…..

    1. Windchime*

      I’m late to the party but I have to tell you, I left a toxic job a little over a year ago and traded a 15 minute commute for an hour commute. I used to get up around 7:30 or 8, procrastinate and finally drag myself into Toxic Job around 9:15. It was all I could do to stay the full 8 hours and I cried and was anxious all the time.

      Now I get up at 4:30 AM. Yes, 4:30. I’m out the door at 5-ish and into the office a little after 6. But I don’t cry anymore, because I’m going to an office with nice people and good work and a decent boss. So for me, it was totally worth it to have that mass of anxiety gone from my chest and to not be constantly crying.

  157. LAI*

    Should I feel guilty about getting basically no work done this week? I work at a university so most offices are closed this week, and there are no classes. There are projects I could be working on but it is hard to motivate myself when I”m literally the only person on the entire floor.

    1. Snark*

      I always feel like I’m only productive when my plate is completely full. If I’ve got some stuff out there that’s like, well, that needs to be done sometime….I get absolutely zip accomplished.

    2. Parse*

      If your university work experience is anything like my university work experience…hey, at least you showed up. That’s more than can be said about a lot of other people.

    3. KK*

      Not necessarily. As long as you aren’t behind on said projects and are meeting deadlines, I don’t see a huge issue with it. It’s hard finding motivation after the holidays!

    4. Victoria, Please*

      Groan, you are better off than I am. Our classes HAVE started and I still got nothing done this week except teach my class and peck at some scheduling stuff.

      So I feel guilty for not doing more scheduling, preparing for several events, following up with a lot of people, writing that paper I’m supposed to be writing, getting *ahead* on my class… I’ve been pretty sick, so maybe that gives me an excuse.

      But don’t worry about it. University life ebbs and flows, you will make up for it later.

  158. Gallivant*

    HR Professionals out there!

    I’m looking to transition into HR, but I have no prior experience. The director of our HR division has told me that they are planning to hire for a position and are willing and committed to training me, but they need to get the green light from HR at headquarters that they’d allow me to apply. It is an HR Assistant position.

    While I’m waiting to hear back on that, is there some reading material I can begin briefing myself on? General information all HR professional *at any level* should know.

    1. Graciosa*

      Not an HR professional, but how large is your company? If you have HR policies – written ones available to the employees – you might think about taking a look at them in advance.

      Lots of caveats to this – written policies do not always reflect a complete picture of how the organization actually operates, and as an assistant, you’re not likely to be the last word on policy interpretation. But it’s something that might be available and could let you get up to speed in ways that will help you answer basic questions.

      A lot of what an HR assistant does is going to depend upon what your boss wants you to do. Lots of this (like letter templates) is not going to be available until you’re in the role – general policies may be the exception even though learning them is not likely to be a game changer (more something you can do while you’re waiting that might possibly be useful later).

      Good luck!

  159. Work*

    Looking for advise about my work. I deal with information that is regulated by HIPPA, but I work in an office not related to any hospital or doctors office. My work decided that the new snow day policy is work from home but on our own computers. Does anyone know if this is an issue I should bring up. Also my spouse is at home and obviously I don’t tell him anything about diagnosis but is that an issue I need bring up. Please help.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Can you say a bit more about how you’re using the computer? Are you on a secure system like a VPN?

    2. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Ask your boss/supervisor/whoever if they have any suggestions for you.

      One thing you can do is make sure that you and your spouse have separate, passworded accounts for the computer.

    3. Okay then*

      Is your husband even seeing the information or is it just on a computer you share while you’re using it? If he’s not seeing it and can’t once you’re done working, I don’t think it violates HIPPA.

      1. Work*

        We have separate computers so I’m not concerned he will use mine what I’m concerned about it that I need to bring files home which I guess I have to hide and it is an issue that I’m doing work on my personal computer which may not be as secure as it needs to be. But then again all the information is publicly available if you want to get it in most places.

        1. Okay then*

          Sorry for the late reply if you’re still seeing it – what matters is that you’re not sharing the information. So if you keep the files secure in your house when you have to bring them home and don’t let people rummage around in them, it should be fine. Essentially, you don’t want to leave the information where anyone can access it and you want to make sure the patients cannot be identified.

          If the information is all publicly available and attached to the patient, it may not even be covered by HIPAA.

    4. ..Kat..*

      The fact that they aren’t even aware that personal home computers are not HIPAA compliant is troublesome.

  160. Parse*

    I’ve been coming here for my work-related advice. But serious question, who am I actually supposed to go to for this? I’m thinking about having a conversation with my manager asking for reflective advice on how I should have approached her on situations last year.

    For example, can I say “Do you have any tips on how I can find value in my work without the need to be praised by others?” I have a good relationship with my manager, but I’m still unsure of the line, and it’s stressing me out trying to figure out what I can and cannot say.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I think that sounds a bit more personal than you can really ask of your manager. It’s more to do with meeting your emotional needs. I think there’s a version of the ‘five love languages’ about work that might help. You can ask your manager how to get more feedback or find out how you’re doing but this question is more personal than that.

    2. KayEss*

      I think it’s a good idea to ask if there’s anything your manager would prefer you had done differently in approaching and addressing past situations, but your other example… that seems like a question for a therapist. I’m not a manager, but it immediately raises red flags in my mind that you’re having trouble staying invested in your work and its quality. That may be unfair, but it’s an impression I’d definitely want to avoid giving.

    3. Parse*

      Maybe that was a bad example. I’m relatively young in my field, so I feel like I’m constantly trying to be “more professional/competent” by looking to those around me, but I might also be picking up their bad habits.

      Better example: I like how people add in their fun/joking kind of personality into interactions. I have a similar personality and I’d love to be more myself at work, but I’m not sure if it’s appropriate because I’m more junior. Is this something I can discuss with my manager?

      1. zora*

        Those aren’t the kinds of things I’d bring up with my actual boss, either.

        Boss questions are more like: How is my work? what could I do differently? What kinds of things should I learn more about if I want to move into X Position in the future?

        Those questions about soft-skills or work personality are the kinds of things I’d talk to older coworkers about instead. And people love to help others!! So you shouldn’t feel weird about asking other coworkers for more interpersonal advice.

        I would say to think of the most friendly, supportive coworkers you have that are more like mid-level. As in, don’t directly supervise a lot of people, but also have been in your industry for at least 5 years. And ask them if they have time to go to coffee or lunch with you sometime to give you some professional advice. I know it feels like a lot to ask, but I bet you there are people who would be happy to spend some time talking about those kinds of things, most people love talking about themselves and answering questions! ;o)

  161. Tabby Baltimore*

    As one possible answer to your question, please see the response I provided upthread to SebbyGrrl’s 1:52pm post.

  162. Underpaid Bookkeeper*

    I’m the bookkeeper at a restaurant and we are closing next week for renovations. Of course it is unpaid time off. #lame Anyway I’m going to be using the time to work on my freelance gigs. I have 2 clients I need to get caught up on and do year end stuff. I really want to be able to leave this job by the end of the year with a big enough client base to work for myself.

  163. worried colleague*

    So hi everyone.

    I’m in a bit of a pickle with the second in command.

    First off I’ve been doing my job as an EA for just over 9 months. By all accounts everyone relies on me and I’ve been told I’m doing a fantastic job.

    My problem is my 2nd in command. He won’t ever authorize or email instructions. This causes problems when he authorizes things but after changes his mind!

    Yesterday someone had asked for help via email that was out with my experience so I copied the 2nd in command and asked if he could help. Sounds reasonable???

    He then called to say he couldn’t help and to let originator know they had to wait till another manager’s return. OK OK I thought. I therefore emailed the originator stating that I had spoke to my manager, at the moment we couldn’t help and could this wait for return of the other manager?

    Reasonable? Whoa, my 2nd in command then called me to say I should not have emailed that. Wow I was like games sorry but that’s what I thought you said?

    He then went on to say, yes he had said that, but it made him look unhelpful and NEVER to do that again.

    Today I come in to work and he is being real funny with me and I just feel so awful. Plus he’s already told another colleague about my ‘slip up’

    Any advice?

    1. Victoria, Please*

      First, breathe. Don’t freak. He will get over this and if he doesn’t then you don’t want to work for him for long.

      He’s clearly told you now that your main job is to protect his image, which is useful information.

      So, on Monday, directness? “Boss, I know you aren’t happy with the way I handled this and I understand that one of my functions is to protect this office.* What would have been a way to respond to this person that you feel would have both told the person what they needed to know while protecting this office?” And then you can extrapolate from there to future situations.

      *I actually think your boss is being a bit ridiculous. He told you the answer, you politely passed it along. The fact that he thinks it made him look bad is, you know, HIS problem? Except he’s made it yours. I can see how this might happen because I have an assistant who will sometimes forward things I wish she hadn’t forwarded or she’ll email things I said that I wish she had put more neutrally. But, that’s MY problem — because I’m the one who said something I wish I hadn’t said, AND I have not explicitly told her that one of her jobs is to make me look good because I feel like it’s my job to make me look good.

    2. Student*

      You messed up. It’s minor, but learn from it instead of trying to convince yourself you didn’t screw up.

      Two things that you messed up:
      Making the boss look bad (when it’s unnecessary)
      Giving someone unnecessary information to suck them into internal/department drama

      What you should’ve told the originator: “Sorry, I won’t be able to get back to you about this until X date. I need input from someone who’s out of the office until then. Can I get back to you about this then?”

      I get it. You don’t like the second-in-command. So you were happy to broadcast his decision not to help with this request to the originator. You did, in fact, make the second-in-command look unhelpful by pointing out he wasn’t willing to answer the inquiry, instead of noting that the right person to provide the information wasn’t available. It’s possible that the second-in-command is just being lazy as you have implied, or he might genuinely not know the answer, or he might know that the other manager would strongly prefer him to not weigh in on it.

      Even if the second-in-command IS being lazy and unhelpful, picture this exchange from the viewpoint of the originator. The originator doesn’t want to hear that someone could help them, but won’t (even if that is true, it will only give the originator a negative view of your department for no real gain). The originator does not want to be drawn into your beef with the second-in-command. The originator does not care that you are a fantastic EA. The originator just wants a question answered. If the answer isn’t immediately available, a timetable as to when it will be available is the best you can do for the originator.

      If you do have a legitimate issue with the second-in-command, then the originator is not the person to take it to under any reasonable interpretation of this scenario; take it up with your direct boss, a manager you think would care, or the second-in-command’s boss, if you feel it’s merited.

  164. Beth Anne*

    I love the beginning of the year for goal setting. I do it year round but I like the fresh start you get in January #nerd. I am working on setting up my new set of Power sheets and Bullet Journals. I have a lot of career goals as well as personal goals I’d like to accomplish this year.

    Anyone else keep track of career goals each year?

    1. NacSacJack*

      I have a question for you. How successful are you in your career goals when so much relies on what work comes in and what gets assigned to you.

  165. Rookie Manager*

    One of my team has been off work with various mental health issues for most of the last 6 months. Originally her sick line was for ‘anxiety and depression’ but the last batch have been for ‘work related stress. She is due to be off for another couple of weeks but was desperate to come back this week. I said we needed her doctors recommendation that she is fit to return. When her doctor said she was not yet ready she flew off the handle at him then called me and had a meltdown on the phone. The rest of this week has held a number of fraught texts, reassurances that she is ready to start work and demands to see polices that have no relevance (ie disciplinary).

    I’m feeling overwhelmed with the situation despite support from HR. How do I help this woman? From her reactions this week I don’t think she is safe to see clients but I know she needs the money coming back would bring. Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      I’m making some guesses here based on your wording, so if I’m off base, just disregard.

      Is it possible for this employee to come back at half time? I’m getting the feeling that her job is somehow client-facing, but is there anything she can do that’s strictly backend? Is it possible for you or HR to speak with her doctor to see about a timeline for her onboarding back to give your employee some sense of reassurance? I know just floating aimlessly is difficult (am currently there with a situation myself), so maybe if she had some structure she would feel better.

      1. Rookie Manager*

        I’m definitely hoping when she returns she does so in a phased way, and perhaps that we even we demand that, in consultation with her doctor.

        It would be great if we could maybe not have her dealing with clients initially but the role/Our small office couldn’t support that. When she came back from her last eextended leave I had tried to limit how many clients she saw but she booked extra appointments outside of her official diary to the extent that she burned out almost immediately and went off sick again. I can’t have that happen again for her, team moral/workload or her vulnerable clients. She believes we are trying to sack her (not true) so any change in duties would been seen negatively.

        Th, I don’t think there is a good solution right now. I just hope she gets the medical help she needs.

    2. Anon for this*

      In this case, it would be smart to have a back up plan in case she has public melt down while on the job. Is there a private place for her to cool off and calm herself if needed? Do you have her current emergency contact numbers? Is there back up for her position if she needs to step away?

      1. Rookie Manager*

        Good point. Yes, there is a staff area she could cool down in and I could ensure she does no home visits etc. I’ll ensure if/when she returns her emergency numbers are up to date.

    3. Temperance*

      FWIW, do you need to bring her back? It doesn’t sound like she can do this job, and it doesn’t sound like she’s stable enough to bring back to your workplace.

      1. Rookie Manager*

        I’m leaning in this direction but it makes me feel so guilty. She has said several times that she thinks my organisation want to get rid of her and I have reassured that is not the case. However we can’t sustain her being out the office so much. She was awesome at her job but I worry that she would not be if she returned. Which makes me feel guilty because next time if she says that we are trying to get rid of her the truthful answer might be yes.

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          Don’t feel guilty – her mental health situation is unfortunate, but you all can’t continue to hold her job open indefinitely when there’s no sign of improvement on her end. It’s not fair to her coworkers, who are inevitably picking up her slack, and it’s not fair to her clients, whom you stated are vulnerable themselves and could probably use some stability from your organization. At some point, you all need to talk to this employee about managing her out of the position because it doesn’t sound like she’s cut out for this role anymore, and that happens.

    4. Anono-me*

      Is temporary disability leave or disability retirement an option?

      It sounds like your coworker might be in desperate financial straits, causing her to push to return to work too soon and to do too much. Does your company or community have any resources that might be able to take some of the financial pressure off of her? Maybe you could research some of them for her (without identifying her) and share the information discreetly her.

      Also, if you do receive a doctor’s note clearing your coworker to return to work; please be sure the clearance covers the actually responsibilities and duties of your coworker.

      1. Rookie Manager*

        She’s actually entitles to be a beneficiary of our organisation but won’t go down that route (we’re a gateway to many other organisations). I’ve offered food bank vouchers etc but she won’t take them. There is a lot of pride mixed in with the desperation. I’m going to reread policies this weekend but I think she may have used up everything available to her.

        We’re asking occ health to review her as well as her doctor, unless there us dramatic improvement I don’t think they will clear her. It’s not a nice situation at all.

    5. Observer*

      If she’s not safe to see clients you CANNOT have her come back, unless there is a position she can fill that is not client facing.

      The potential for damage to everyone (including her) is just too high.

  166. Sparkly Librarian*

    I work for a library system where it’s common for employees to transfer from branch to branch, sometimes acting up into a higher position temporarily. There’s a list maintained of employees who want to be considered for transfer opportunities. My coworker says that she always applies to that list so that she will be ASKED, not told, whether she wants to move. I guess that once everyone on the list has been asked, if they still haven’t filled a position, they’ll just assign someone to the role in the new location and that person won’t have a choice.

    I don’t want to move. I can see myself staying at my current location for at least 5 years, and potentially much longer. Should I go through the hassle of applying to the transfer list? (It requires paperwork as if I had never worked in this system, including stuff like transcripts and diplomas.) And if I do get asked, should I interview, knowing that I wouldn’t accept an offer?

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Are you sure she’s right and that it isn’t just luck that it’s worked out for her so far?

      1. Sparkly Librarian*

        Well… no. She says it’s advice that came from our former manager, who has worked for this system a long time. When I was on the transfer list before, I was able to turn down opportunities when offered. I just don’t know what actually would happen once they get to the bottom of the list. I’m leery about asking HR, because it seems rather unprofessional to indicate, “I want to get around this policy you have, so I’m going to go through the motions and make you do more paperwork than strictly necessary. That cool?” Or maybe it’s just unprofessional to DO it, and I’d be making my intentions clear by mentioning it so I’d look worse. *sigh* Bureaucracy.

        1. KayEss*

          I’m not clear on why you would want to be on the list at all if you don’t want to move… is it a policy that you have to be on it for some reason? Is there any benefit to you being on it beyond the appearance of having a proactive go-getter attitude? There should be other ways you can demonstrate that without doing a bunch of pointless paperwork for opportunities you’ll never take.

        2. KayEss*

          On re-reading, it sounds like the concern is that if everyone on the transfer list rejects a specific transfer, someone specifically not on the transfer list is selected to fill the position without being given a choice. That’s… a policy so bad I have a hard time believing it’s real. Why would you maintain a list of people open to transferring, then select someone not on the list? If you’re going to force a current employee into a transfer position, it should be selecting either someone on the list of people open to transferring or from the entire staff. The transfer list granting you some kind of exemption from undesirable transfers is ridiculous.

          I would personally ask your manager or HR to clarify how positions are filled in that case, just because I really can’t believe there isn’t a misunderstanding somewhere.

        3. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

          Hm. Is your boss someone you could ask? Not in the sense of “I want to get around this policy,” in the sense of “I really like it here and am hoping to stay for several more years, but I’m also unclear about this part of the transfer policy. Is there something I can do to indicate to HR that I’d really love to stay here?”

  167. Newish Librarian*

    I’m ready to start applying for a new job. However, my library is exceedingly small- 3 full timers when fully staffed. And we are currently not full staffed.
    Originally there was a prospect of a new employee starting in January. This didn’t happen. Thus. if I were to leave anytime in the near future, this would force my boss to work twelve hour days. Not something that she will forget easily and could damage my reputation in the future.
    I keep reading that I shouldn’t worry about the after affects of my departure, given our small staff I feel like I have to wait to apply rather than just go for now. Sure, I could always apply “for the practice” but what if it’s a job I really want? And I know in this economy I may not see something else for months that I may want to apply to. Any advice?

    1. Nacho*

      Go for it. As long as you give at least two weeks notice (give more if you can and you think it’ll help), it shouldn’t affect your reputation.

    2. atexit8*

      I am not sure why you are concerned about your co-workers workload should you leave.

      Are they having a hard time filling the open position?

      The job market still isn’t that great, so they should be be able to hire someone if they are actually serious about it.

  168. VictoriaQ*

    Question: when one is the type of person to skew towards ‘not wearing makeup’ should I try to get into the habit of wearing my makeup more consistently so the days when I wear ‘more’ (aka more elaborate eyeshadow or bolder lip colors) makeup it’s not such a change, or should I not worry about it? As a student I tends towards not wearing makeup like 70% of the time, and I know there have been studies about women in the workplace being perceived as more professional for wearing it, and I do like wearing makeup, I just tend to like sleeping in more.

    1. SL #2*

      If your ultimate goal is to limit the number of people who say “oh my gosh you’re wearing makeup what’s the occasion???” when you do choose to wear makeup, then yes, maybe start with easy makeup in the mornings? It also helps to get into the habit when you’re a student so when you do start working, it’s second nature to go through the basic routine. I’m thinking tinted lip balm, maybe a tinted moisturizer if that’s your thing, and even if you forgo eyeliner, some mascara? It would probably add about five minutes to your routine if you keep the items in your bathroom or in some other easily accessible place.

      I do very light makeup on normal work days (eyeliner and either sheer lipstick or a neutral-tone “normal” lipstick), but I use a heavier hand (and foundation) when I’ve got client meetings or when I’m at a training session. My boss does the same thing, and no one’s commented on my makeup level yet.

    2. Graciosa*

      Consistency is your friend in developing a workplace image.

      I don’t have an opinion on whether wearing makeup should be part of that image, but you need to be predictable. If you normally wear makeup and suddenly don’t, people will wonder why (OMG, is she sick?). If you don’t normally wear makeup, and suddenly show up with dramatic smoky eyes, people will wonder why (OMG, does she have an interview?).

      People thinking about inviting you to meetings want to be comfortable knowing who is going to show up. If they’re not sure, they may not invite you. You want to be invited.

      It may take a little time to develop your work uniform, but do develop one (at least a range) that you’re comfortable with. You can change it, but try not to do so dramatically without some plausible explanation (people will get over your coloring your hair, or shifting a bit more upscale in your wardrobe post-promotion).

      I have different work uniforms for days when I’m meeting customers, but that’s considered normal for my job. Companies do have different cultures and standards, so figure out how your wardrobe (and makeup) will be assessed in your culture and make your decisions accordingly.

      I guess that my bottom line translation would be either skip the makeup or get up in time to apply at least the basics every day. No preference on which.

    3. Louise*

      I work in a very casual office, and there’s definitely no expectation for women to wear makeup. I also tend to not wear makeup most of the time—when I do, it’s usually because I’m wearing contacts (and am therefore more self conscious about my face because I don’t have glasses to hide behind) and I definitely get some “Oh wow you look so nice!” or “Love your eyeliner!” or “Ooo so fancy!” I usually just respond with a “thanks!” or joke about “goin on a ~hot date~ tonight, gotta look good” or (with people I’m close with) “yeah when I don’t wear glasses I feel like I have to try harder with my face so here we are.”

      I’ve also gotten a few “your makeup looks great, you should wear it more often!” to which I roll my eyes and carry on because, rude.

      At the end of the day, I’d say do what you feel most comfortable with. People who give unsolicited comments on other people’s appearances are the ones with the problem, not those of us who like makeup but also like sleep.

      1. Louise*

        (I should add that I live with the mentality of “if a company wants me to hide my tattoos, it’s not a company that I want to work for!” but I know that’s a luxury that not everyone always has, so take my comment with a grain of salt.)

      2. VictoriaQ*

        Sorry I forgot to thank you guys yesterday! Things got a bit away from me. I do have a makeup routine in place (it’s relatively short, about 10 minutes), I just tend to get lazy and ignore it. I’m going to try harder, going forward, to stick to it.

        Thank you guys also for expanding more on the importance of consistency at work!

  169. Tacos are Tasty*

    I just found out that Game of Thrones doesn’t return until 2019. 2018 is ruined! Ruined I say!

  170. Tacos are Tasty*

    This may be a long shot, but if anyone is game: What are the Pros and Cons of living in Melbourne Australia? Any comparisons to Brisbane would be much appreciated.

    I’m job hunting in Brisbane I’ve noticed that there seem to be more job adverts in my line of work – content writing (digital, print, SEO) – being posted online in Melbourne compared to Brisbane. I don’t know if it’s just a start of the year burst that will curtail itself or if there really are more jobs in general in Melbourne.

    I’m considering moving there as I rent in Brisbane and am getting nowhere job hunting here. Only at it for a bit over a month, but even looking at the job ads it seems Melbourne employers: 1) Value excellent writing much more than QLDers, 2) are more realistic with expectations compared to QLDers which seem to have a wish list of demands for each role above and beyond reality.

    Am I jumping the gun or should I look into it more? What would you do?

    1. Tristin*

      There are more job adverts across the board in Melbourne than brisbane, just due to population size. I wouldn’t jump straight to looking to relocate without doing research. There’s a higher cost of living, it’s more difficult to live close to CBD, and so on in Melbourne when compared to brisbane so you might want to look at that first.

  171. Gina Linetti*

    Still here, still searching.

    I had a rather promising interview last week at a local mental health clinic, but haven’t heard back. Also applied for an accounting/personal assistant type job with a local CPA, before I discovered she used to work with my most recent ex-boss’s mother. I ended up passing on that one.

    I’m starting to have major concerns about my health, including my mental integrity. There have been a couple of incidences of me going out on job interviews and heading back home uninterviewed because I could not find the office(s). The first time was in a rather rundown neighborhood with inadequate signage on most of the businesses – the address I was looking for was #2043, and the only numbering I could see on any of the buildings skipped from #2029 on one block to #2502 on the next. Being the week before Christmas, there was no place to park, or I would’ve done that and tried to hunt down the place on foot. But of course, I didn’t think of that at the time, and by then I was already running late, so I kind of panicked and just headed home.

    The second time happened a couple of days ago. The address was in a local office park I thought I was fairly familiar with – turns out, not so much. Despite having Google Maps at the ready, I ended up at not just one, but two, completely wrong addresses before becoming frustrated and leaving. It wasn’t until I got back home that I realized I’d been literally right across the street from where I’d needed to be.

    As if that weren’t bad enough, my creaky old body just gets even more creaky by the day. Somehow I managed to throw my back out the other day, so I’ve been moaning on the couch ever since. I have bilateral arthritis in my knees, which seems to be moving into my hips. My medical cannabis prescription helps with the pain – and with my depression – but I can’t really take it during the day.

    Suffice it to say, 2018 isn’t looking as hopeful as I thought.

    1. anon24*

      I’m so sorry to hear this. Would it be possible for you to go a few days ahead of time to find the offices? When I was a student I had field training at various locations and I would go on the weekend and find them so I knew exactly where I was going and it wasn’t something I had to stress out over.

      Good luck with your search!

    2. nep*

      Glad to hear from you.
      I can completely understand your urge to just cut out in these two cases, I can see myself doing that. I once bailed on a doctor appointment in similar circumstances. When I absolutely must be somewhere at a certain time (particularly for an interview) and I’m unfamiliar with a place, I’ll go there when I’ve got time before the day of the meeting. This way I know just where to go the day of, and no sense of panic because I’ve gone through the steps to get there.
      Even in the first day or two of 2018 did not go your way, please don’t follow that thought of losing hope for the entire year.
      Easy to say, I know, but your perseverance will reward you in the end.
      All the best and please keep us posted.

  172. Q.*

    My office has a suggestion box; not a real box, but an anonymous online portal in which we are encouraged to leave suggestions, questions, or concerns. These inquiries are addressed during the company’s monthly (quarterly in the coming year) meetings by the person at the head of our organization, or occasionally addressed in a company-wide email by our single human resources employee. There are usually three different types of responses offered, in each of these cases. Either they admonish the person for not asking the question personally, rather than submitting it to the suggestion box, they don’t answer the actual question posed, or they answer in such a way that I would never feel comfortable submitting one myself.

    An example of uncomfortable answers: An employee submitted a concern over the fact that, on some days, the office is overfilled. 99 percent of the work done in our office is done on a computer, and there are obviously a limited number. The number of employees has no such cap, as the company continues to grow its workforce. It has come to the point that there are sometimes more workers than computers. The response was as follows: “The only solution we could possibly do right now would be to reduce the desk size (by about a foot) to accommodate more seating. We will not do this as the next complaint will be that you are sitting on top of each other.” Perhaps I’m being too sensitive, but something about this wording does not strike the right chord, in my opinion.

    Now, due to the number of questions about the salary change being submitted, we are all required to attend a meeting about it, and have been told to prepare questions to stop the flood of suggestion box submissions. I feel that all of this shows they are tone deaf when it comes to the reasons for having an anonymous suggestion box. Those who have questions they hoped to submit to the box may not be more comfortable speaking out in a mandatory meeting (though the group setting might be helpful for some), and those of us who have no questions will be annoyed for being forced to attend. I also think that if they continue this way of communicating – scolding people for not coming straight to them (when presumably the anonymity is what made them brave enough to speak out), not answering questions (this may simply be misunderstanding questions, but it happens frequently enough that I’m not sure), and basically snarking at or making fun of submitted questions – that people will be discouraged from submitting anything or even coming to them with their concerns. I don’t know as if they see how they are coming across, but I also don’t have nearly enough clout in the company to say anything to them about it, unless I – ha – submit an anonymous note in the suggestion box.

    I’m not really looking for a solution, per se, because I know Alison will advise (rightfully so) that I don’t have enough standing to say anything and that it is something I have to get used to. However, I am curious to see what others think and what kind of script they would suggest to someone who had enough standing to do something about it.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Even if someone had standing, this is rating high on my Sucks-n-Won’t-Change-o-meter.

  173. Anon for this one*

    Today I found out that my best friend at OldJob was hospitalised after suffering a minor heart attack. Which I have no doubt is due to the immense amount of stress that company put their staff under. She’s going to be okay, and I’m going to see her tomorrow, but I am so worried about her and really cross.

    Think overly high workloads with impossible deadlines and awful management. Sometimes I wonder how I survived eight years at that place. I had one direct report phone in sick one day because his heart had started to race and his dad drove him straight to hospital. I also saw so many people burn out, and I was on the verge of it before I landed my current job, which I still see as a miracle.

    It’s such a toxic place. Yes our industry is high pressure and a certain incident last year really damaged a few reputations, but my current company just did some damage limitation and carried on. None of us are frazzled or burnt out or, y’know, being hospitalised.

    No question here, just a vent cuz I’m worried sick about my friend.

  174. AnonForThis*

    Accountants/finance professionals at mid sized privately owned companies: what is your relationship with your advisory board? Specifically, how often do you meet, what types of things do they advise you on, and how much authority do they have within your company?

  175. Astrid Fansworth*

    (Long time reader, first time commenter, hello!)

    I’m starting a new job soon, my first job after grad school. My previous work experience has been work from home and/or super flexible so this will be my first time in a 9 to 5, Monday to Friday office job. Does anyone have any tips? I so appreciate the wealth of knowledge held by the commentariat!

    1. Anon for this*

      Here are my tips:
      1. Pack your lunch the night before to save time in the morning
      2. Lay out your clothes the night to save time in the morning
      3. Arrive at work 5-10 minutes early so you can settle in and be ready to go at 9 am
      4. Stash an emergency kit (Advil, safety pins, lint roller, and etc) in your desk
      5. Stash some snacks in your purse/desk in case you get hungry in the afternoon
      6. Have a water bottle at your desk

      1. Astrid Fansworth*

        Thanks! I’ve already got my first day lunch planned out (I figured it was a good idea to have something really tasty to look forward to) but I’ll get onto prepping the rest!

    2. Anono-me*

      Do a few practice runs of getting up, getting ready and actually commuting to the office at your future normal times, if you can. It will help reset your body clock. Also, you don’t want to find out that your maps app was wrong about how long the commute would take on your first day. (Remember travel times are almost always much much worse during rush hour in larger communities .)
      Congratulations.

    3. Brunch with Sylvia*

      Don’t underestimate how tiring it can be to work 5 days in a row! It has moments of being a grind that aren’t necessarily predictable. Maybe do a little dinner meal prep on the weekends so that you can build in some time to rest & decompress or take a walk, play with pets or whatever is mindless relaxation for you after work.

      1. Emily*

        This for sure! Admittedly, I’ve had chronic fatigue in the past and partly put it down to that, but it can be tough to get used to. I was in a 9-5 office graduate program for 6 months last year before starting this job, but I had Wednesday off, and it did take me the bulk of my first three months of my current position to adapt, even with the morning routine. It’s now summer here and I am finally able to bring other things back into my life, like picking up some hobbies that fell away, getting back into an exercise program etc. Definitely cut yourself some slack as you adjust!

      2. Astrid Fansworth*

        The daily grind is my biggest fear! Luckily my partner will be a stay at home husband for a while so that eases the pressure a bit on the domestic front.

  176. Tacos are Tasty*

    Thought I’d share the worst job ad I’ve come across lately. Any thoughts on this ridiculous and discriminatory posting?

    1. Tacos are Tasty*

      Ok original ad was removed from my post. Let’s try again with the name withheld.

      Social Media Manager/Intern Position
      Work is a play, never a joke;
      If you are prepared to play anything is possible!!!

      We are a start-up team focused on hosting major international creative events in Australia. We have partnerships with international media brands and celebrity agencies. We aspire to make inspiring and entertaining events for multicultural communities in Australia. We believe in being creative and getting things done—highly motivated, task-oriented individuals who can take up complex assignments and meet challenging deadlines.

      People come first for us. There is a magic in all of us that shows itself up when given the right support. When you are around us we make sure that we give you everything to bring the best in you.

      We are looking for people from Indian background who are confident, creative, quality focused and proactive team players with strong problem solving, communication and time –management skills to join our team as Interns. This is an unpaid internship only position with possibilities of turning into a paid position in the future.

      You will be working with the co-founders using professional work systems. Your rewards include , but not limited to, Professional mentoring and career development support, experience with cross-boundary event management & exposure too high profile celebrities and businesses. This is a great opportunity for someone looking for work experience and entry into creative and entertainment industry with an International focus.

      Do your parents nag you for wasting a lot of time on social media. Then you are what we are looking for. If you think you are cool and popular among your friends we would like to talk to you. You are on the front lines of brand communication, actively connecting and conversing with customers online. You will be coordinating the creation and distribution of digital content across a range of media channels. You will be reporting to marketing manager.

      Ideal candidate will have exposure:

      Digital marketing

      Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and Youtube

      Scheduling post

      Brand Management

      Growing our social media presence (i.e. maximising number of followers, likes, comments and/or shares)

      Engaging Customers with interesting and relevant content

      Active problem solver

      Keep people happy!!!

      Job Type: Internship

  177. Nacho*

    How do your guys’ quarterly reviews go? Are they linked to your bonuses?

    At my office, we’re graded in 5 categories, and get a 6% bonus if we meet expectations, 8% if we exceed them, and nothing if we need improvement. But because a 6% bonus is the norm, it’s next to impossible to exceed or not meet their expectations. I was promoted without ever getting an exceed in even one of the 5 categories.

  178. Silvercat*

    The power of connections and competence has come through for me!

    The outsourcing company used by the place I worked at last just emailed me out of the blue with a job offer. They have a new client in the city where I used to work and want me to do stuff that needs to be done there (the outsourcing company is in another state). And it’ll be more than I’ve ever made.

    I literally just applied for unemployment yesterday.

    The downside is that I don’t live there – I’m like 150 miles away. I’ll have to rent a room again and it’ll mess up my garden and other plans. But the money is worth it. If I don’t screw around this time, I’ll get a bunch of my debt paid off.

  179. TerraTenshi*

    I tried to speak to my manager today about the negativity and stress in the department. They deflected and “joked” about screaming at a co-worker until they cried. More and more I think it’s time to leave even if I have only been there 13 months.

    1. Anono-me*

      It sounds like you already know what you should do.
      Please try to stay long enough to find a new position, if you can.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      Yes, trust your gut on this. And just start looking. By the time you actually give notice, it could be another 6 months down the line, and you’ll have been there for at least 18-19 months in total. It would be better if you could stick it out for the full 2 years, but your mental health comes first. Please use the search function on the AAM site to locate previous advice from others on how to best frame your answer to the interview question about why you’re looking for other employment. Good luck.

  180. Rune*

    I came across an interesting work/interview scenario on a travel forum. One poster said that for the past 15 years they have worked in the corporate sector for 2 solid years and then quit to travel for 3 years and then goes back to working at a different place for 2 years. Rinse and repeat until current day.

    I’m guessing she’s got a very specialized skill but I’m just imagining a weird looking resume and cover letter.

    How do you even interview for this and how would hiring managers handle it?

  181. Emily*

    I’m hoping to get advice on a job application for a position I am very interested in.

    From about 2014 to 2016 I worked for an online publisher doing copyedits/line edits as well as more in-depth developmental work on novel-length projects. This company was not well run and shady/scammy (like, that is one of the first things that comes up when Googled).

    In retrospect I should have bailed way earlier for a lot of reasons, but at the time I had a horrible server job and was dying to gain experience in my degree field; I also enjoyed the intellectual challenge. Like, I am ashamed I stayed around so long; there were a few gems, but a lot of the work put out was really, really subpar. Should have been left in the slush pile bad. However, I put in a lot of work in the position and think I really grew from the experience. I probably learned more from the really bad stuff I worked on than the good. It was certainly more work.

    So, there is a position open for entry level content editor for a small press that does really good work and which I deeply admire. The application is rather flexible for experience; it requires 1 year of work editing but allows paid, unpaid, internship, even fandom beta. I hit all the job requirements; the work described is almost exactly what I did previously.

    A couple of things:

    – Is the sketchiness of my past employer a ding against me? I’m not sure how it’s going to look.
    – Should I address this at all in my cover letter? I’m leaning towards it would be unprofessional/oversharing.
    – On the CV, we need at least 5 published works we edited. Should I include everything I worked on, or just stuff I wouldn’t be ashamed to see my name on.
    – We also need 2 references from authors we did developmental/line edits with. What would be the best way to get these? How would you word that email?
    – Would working at a library be relevant to add to my resume? I worked as a page in HS and later as an assistant after college as a temp.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. Silvercat*

      I’m not in the field and hopefully somebody with more relevant experience will speak up but here’s my 2 cents.

      I’d include the past employer – it is experience and it’s at least on the level of beta’ing. I’d mention it in the cover letter, emphasizing the positive you got out of it. I’d list just the best stuff you worked on and I don’t think the library experience is relevant.

      Good luck!

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      – Is the sketchiness of my past employer a ding against me? I’m not sure how it’s going to look.
      Eh. It will probably be fine. I worked for a shady magazine company and it wasn’t a problem when I applied to a better one. That said it might help if you provide a homepage URL as that potentially stops them needing to Google at all.

      – Should I address this at all in my cover letter? I’m leaning towards it would be unprofessional/oversharing.
      No. Just talk about your experience in the same way you would if it wasn’t shady.

      – On the CV, we need at least 5 published works we edited. Should I include everything I worked on, or just stuff I wouldn’t be ashamed to see my name on.
      You should not include everything as that’s likely to be a lot more than 5. I would include 5 that you’re not ashamed of. I wouldn’t worry about trying to show that you have lots more than 5. 5 will be enough.

      – We also need 2 references from authors we did developmental/line edits with. What would be the best way to get these? How would you word that email?
      Skipping this as I don’t know, sorry.

      – Would working at a library be relevant to add to my resume? I worked as a page in HS and later as an assistant after college as a temp.
      Only if it gives you experience that will help you show how you meet the criteria for this job.

    3. MissGirl*

      I worked in publishing for both a publisher and as an author and I’m torn on naming them. These companies leave a bad taste in a lot of our mouths. They’ve scammed many authors and put out a lot of bad stuff. They give publishers a bad name. How well known is this company? Are you still in contact with any of the authors you worked with who could vouch for you? Do you have any freelance experience? If you could say you freelanced and give a list of authors who would vouch for you that might help. If they’re not really well known, it might be okay.

  182. Tristin*

    So I’m currently working as a temp assistant in my field, and I’ve had great feedback and been extended a few times, despite the fact that I personally think I’m terrible as an assistant and at admin work (as it’s not my thing). There is need for more teapot juniors, a role usually taken by students, and potentially graduates in the future. I’m qualified and would love to be either a junior or a graduate in our team, and plan to talk to my boss about this very shortly. A senior in our team has mentioned she’s broached the topic of me with boss in the recent past, and boss has said a few encouraging things, but I’d like to say something anyway to show that I’m a go-getter and stress how interested I am. Only problem is actually talking to my boss – he’s a great guy, but he has since given up his office to sit in open plan with the rest of us. Any advice for how to have this conversation with him, or even things I should mention?

    1. Anono-me*

      Could you send your boss an email asking for some time to talk privately about your career path at the company?

  183. Takver*

    I’m in the first week of my internship, a 3 month rotation coordinated by my school and completed for credit. One of my supervisors told me that my manager was probably going to have me work some days at another location in the same company. This is a very nice thought in terms of giving me different experience, but I take the bus and the other location is quite far away–the commute is too long for me. What would be good phrasing to nicely decline, if the manager brings this up? Will it damage me to turn her down? Can I make up for that somehow?

    1. Colette*

      Well, the first step is to find out what she’s asking. Is it a one-day thing or would she be asking you to go there regularly? Would you be responsible for your transportation, or will they (I.e. carpool with coworker, company pays for a cab)?

      It’s fine to let her know you’re concerned about the transportation, and to ask if there are alternatives (including that you don’t go to the other location).

  184. AnonAndOn*

    Weekly unemployment support thread: How is it going? Need advice, support, a place to vent? Feel free to do so here.

    1. Melanie E*

      I applied for unemployment Dec 1st, day after being fired (thanks work for a great holiday!). I still have seen $0 from them and I’m burning through my meager savings keeping up with bills. My old employer says they faxed things in mid Dec so I don’t understand what is taking so long?! Can’t call the UE office, always buisy. But you can drive down town, pay $15 for parking, and wait 2 hours at the Career Link office to use a phone that has a direct line to them. Ugh.
      Thankfully I live with family and have good support but if I didn’t, I would be so screwed right now. Why is this system so broken?!

      1. AnonAndOn*

        I’m not sure how the unemployment benefit system works where you are, but where I am it takes a few weeks to process. Something must be holding yours up because it shouldn’t take a month to process. Did you get word from them if they were approved or denied? And is there a way you can contact the UI office online?

        Even though I filed mine online they required me to come in person with two forms of ID. I hear you that the process can be bureaucratic.

  185. Applying for Two Types of Jobs*

    Hi,

    I am currently thinking of applying for two different kinds of jobs: accountant or business administrator.

    I was wondering how I should manage my resumes and linkedin profiles when searching for two differnent types of jobs.

    I have an undergrad degree in Business Administration and a Masters degree in Accounting. I went to different colleges for my undergrad and masters.

    I will customized my resumes for each of the two roles. In my linkedin I will include both accoiunting and administrative details, and list both schools.

    For my administrative role resume, I planm to just list my underad degree. But my linkedin header will list my Masters degree college as default.

    Willl it be okay if my resume shows a different school than what my linkedin header will list?

    Or do I list my Masters in Accounting even on resumes for admin roles, since most admin roles also requires some communication with accounting dept?

  186. Degrees in Resume Question*

    Hi,

    Is it okay if I omit my Masters degree in my resume, but leave the Masters degree in my linkedin headline?

    I am applying for two different types of jobs: accountant and business administrator.

    To customized the resumes for both these job applications, I decided to leave my Masters in Accounting in my accountant job resumes, but omit Masters in admin job resumes.

    I am not sure if I should add my Masters in Accounting in admin jobs resumes, even though some admin requires a small amount of communication with accounting dept. My undergrad degree is Business Admin, is that enough for today’s admin positions?

    Do employers mind if the degree I listed in my resume is not the degree that will appear in my main linkedin headline?

    1. Colette*

      Is it important to have the masters in your LinkedIn headline?

      I think it’s fine to leave it off if it won’t strengthen your candidacy for that position, but if they google you and it’s the first thing they see, leaving it off won’t help much (I.e. it’ll raise the same questions about why you want the job).

      1. Degrees in Resume Question*

        I am wondering if having the Masters in my linkedin headline and leaving off the Masters in my admin job resume would be an issue for employers?

        The Masters degree might be good for accounting jobs I am applying for, but I am not sure about it for the admin jobs I plan to apply for as well.

        I am applying for two job types that might have different degree preferences, so I am having a bit of hard time figuring out how to make my resume and linkedin fit both of the jobs’ criteria.

  187. Courtney*

    Student teaching starts Monday!!!!! Ahhhh I’m a bundle of nerves despite the fact that I won’t be stepping in as the main teacher in the room for another three week (when second semester starts.) I’ve looked through the teacher’s lesson plans for the first couple of weeks. I’ve started brainstorming lessons for second semester and have a tentative lesson plan completed for the first day. I’ve read the student handbook and school policies. I’ve looked through their textbook and at what’s on the pre-test and final exam. I’ve spent more hours than I want to admit searching the web for cool ideas for the content I’ll be covering. I’ve bought some more professional clothes and a nice bag for carrying around my laptop and papers. Yet somehow I have that feeling you get when you’re leaving for vacation and are sure you’re forgetting something important even though you know you’ve triple-checked everything.

  188. At My Wit's End*

    As my name suggests, I’m at my wit’s end when it comes to my manager. He’s a middle manager, and I’ve been his only direct report for the 2.5 years he’s been at the company. Prior to this, he spent 15 years at a company I’ll call Company X, which he left because they wouldn’t give him the payrise he wanted, and 2.5 years at a company I’ll call Company Y, from which he was made redundant. He insists that he had a watertight case for wrongful dismissal against Company Y, but that it would have cost too much time and money to take it to court.

    My problem is, since quite literally the second day he got here, he has ranted to me almost every single day about how he’s the only one in the entire company who knows what he’s doing, and how he’s surrounded by idiots who are too stupid and/or corrupt (I’ve noticed he’s very quick to conclude that coworkers he doesn’t like must be taking kickbacks) to see that he’s right about everything all the time. He insists that the company should do everything exactly the same as Company X, even though the stories he tells about his time at Company X make it clear that he thinks he was the only person at that company who knew what he was doing, and that he was surrounded by idiots who were too stupid and/or corrupt to see that he was right about everything all the time. He also talks about how we should be more like Company Y, even though (stop me if you’re seeing a pattern here) the stories he tells about his time at Company Y make it clear that he thinks he was the only person at that company who knew what he was doing, and that he was surrounded by idiots who were too stupid and/or corrupt to see that he was right about everything all the time.

    He complains to me about the way our company does everything, and I mean *everything*, even things that have nothing to do with our department. Our funding model is wrong, because it’s not the same as Company X. The software we use to run the business is wrong, because it’s not the same as Company X. Our employee recognition policies are wrong, because they’re not the same as Company X. Our office location is wrong, because we’re not in the same building as Company Y, among many, many other examples. He also says that the reason his manager didn’t give him the salary he requested was because his manager was jealous of him (jealous of what, specifically, I couldn’t begin to fathom).

    On top of that, whenever he sees or thinks something that he thinks is interesting (it’s almost never important, it’s just interesting to him), he calls me over to his desk to show me or discuss it, getting in the way of my ability to get my work done or even concentrate. My direct manager should not be my biggest obstacle to me getting my work done, but he absolutely is.

    Other than looking for another job, I really don’t know what to do. I’ve tried talking to him about it, framing it that he should be discussing his issues with the company with his own manager, and not with someone who has less influence in policy than he does, but it’s barely helped. It’s gotten to the point where I absolutely dread going into work. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

    1. Observer*

      Try shutting down the conversation by simply not discussing. “OK. Now, what would you like me to do about X?” “I hear you. When is the new TPS report due?” etc. And just let it go in one ear and out the other. If he keeps going on for more than a couple of minutes try saying “I see that this is a big deal / really interesting to you, but the Squggles report is due tomorrow and I have a lot of work left to do on it.”

      See if you can get a transfer within the company. Also, it sounds like it’s time to start job searching. Unless the tactic I described works (no guarantees) your boss is not going to change.

  189. Laura in NJ*

    Are there any legitimate resume reviews online? I’m beyond desperate to figure out why I’m not getting interviews. Googling “Why am I not getting job interviews?” isn’t helpful at all. And, honestly, I don’t have anyone who can review my resume and tell me what’s wrong with it.

    Thank you in advance.

  190. Melanie E*

    I need a little advice. I received a call back for an interview and also asked to fill out an application. Under employment history they ask “reason for leaving”. My most recent job fired me at the end of November but I was honestly looking for new jobs before then for multiple reasons.
    Should I put I was terminated or a vague but honest “change in job and company structure” reason? They didn’t specifically ask if I was ever fired, but I don’t want to seem like I’m being dishonest by not being upfront with it.
    Help?

  191. Fresh Faced*

    Super late but any help is much appreciated!
    What is the etiquette for requesting time off for interviews with a place you just started at? I have a 3 week temp contract with company X (which may be extended but that’s up in the air) but I want to follow up with company Y and Z to schedule an interview soon (they were postponed for the holidays.) Company Y and X are for Full time permanent jobs, but the locations mean I’d be out of the office for the entire day, so no lunch break scheduling. I’m afraid if I wait the 3+ weeks for the interviews the positions will have been filled.

  192. Junior Dev*

    I’m starting a new job on Monday and I’m feeling really insecure about my ability to handle it. I have anxiety and depression and I’ve had trouble lately with getting up on time, concentrating, getting things done.

    I’ve already gotten some good advice on concrete steps to alleviate this but I’m wondering of anyone can help with stories or advice about appearing competent and put-together when your brain doesn’t quite work right.

  193. Red*

    I’m not sure if this is work or non-work so sorry if it’s in the wrong open thread.
    I just wanted to say that it was my birthday yesterday. At OldJob, last year for the day, they didn’t talk to me because I’d dare to miss the Christmas show because I’d had a car accident.
    At NewJob, this year, they took me out for my birthday, gave me a present and really sweet card and just made me feel awesome.

    I just wanted to share because I spent so many years in bad jobs thinking that being disrespected was kind of just the way it was. But NewJob has completely proved me wrong, I’ve never been so happy.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Happy birthday, fellow January person. Glad to hear you’re working with nice people.

  194. D.W.*

    Not sure if anyone is still hanging around this late.

    I am filling out a job application and they have a filled for salary expectation, but it’s not a required field. How would it look to potential employers if I skip it? Should I put a number? If so, should it be my reach number or my mid-range?

    Why do they do this!?

    1. Anon anon anon*

      I would skip it! I think a lot of employers use the form that comes with the software and don’t put a lot of thought into all the fields. If it’s not marked as required, then it’s not required.

      I tend to skip these fields if they’re not required: references (they can ask later if I’m selected for an interview), salary requirements, SSN (they can get that if/when I’m hired), and social media links (including LinkedIn when I had it because I don’t think they should be asking for links to pictures of candidates for obvious reasons and it’s just tmi).

  195. Anon anon anon*

    I hope it’s ok to post here so late. I just want to say that I’m feeling better about my job search. Trying to turn things around by having a more positive attitude and being friendlier to people. I need to find ways to network. That always has a much higher success rate than sending my resume out. I’m focusing on the positive – what I have working in my favor – and hoping that I’ll find something soon.

  196. Anonymous in the NE*

    I currently have a job I love that is being moved half was across the country. The job is for a major company that is stable, doing work I like, and I have to decide by tomorrow whether to follow it half way across the country or lose it in the next couple of months.

    I am single, but I also have a mother I live with who is disabled and a grandmother who is in a nursing home. My relationships with them are not the greatest, but I have been raised with a duty to family and know that my leaving would seriously mess up their universe

    What is worse is that I don’t know if I can make it on my own. I suffer from physical and mental health issues that make my life difficult and the support of family helps me get through.

    From a career standpoint, this job has been the one door that opened for me in a world where so many doors have slammed in my face, and I fear losing my health insurance and going back to temping and barely getting by. I don’t know what to do. Please help.

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