open thread – February 23-24, 2018

by Alison Green on February 23, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. Meeeeee*

    What’s the (unprofessional) thing you are tempted to do at work?

    Mine: Part of my job involves sending applications to the government, including a CD-ROM of files. I desperately want to rickroll one of the submissions with a video file of “Never Gonna Give You Up”.

    1. Murphy*

      I get a lot of people asking me for extensions to deadlines and I refuse politely, but sometimes I just want to go “lol no”.

      2. Batshua*

        When I first started working phone, I *really* wanted to answer the phone like “Yo dawg, ‘sup?”

        I’m really proud of myself for never ever ever doing that.

        1. LQ*

          One of my directors apparently thinks my pleasant phone voice sounds so different from my normal voice (it does) she’d get flustered and confused when she called me that she said when she calls she wants me to answer “What’dayawant?” Which I do now and it makes her laugh every single time. (She once called laughed and said, “no that’s all I needed” and hung up.)

      3. Someone else*

        Mine is similar. So frequently people will ask questions and I’m really tempted to say “that is not a thing”. But I don’t.

        1. PM Punk*

          I get this irrational urge to just slam the phone down at really inappropriate times when people call me. This urge was particularly strong back when I worked as a reporter, but it still pops up every now and then in my PM role.

          1. Specialk9*

            When I was a kid in church, I was SO worried that I was going to put my foot out and trip people as they went up for communion. I had never done it, never did do it, but I was always convinced that my mental tricks were all that prevented me from turning the communion line into living dominos. So weird.

        2. Cordelia Vorkosigan*

          I often get questions by email that I am so, so tempted to answer in the form of a “Let Me Google That For You” link.

      4. designbot*

        I get the opposite, a lot of people asking for things on ridiculous timelines, and then they want everything to be perfectly researched, cross-referenced, and ready to go, and I just want to be like, “oh, because I had So. Much. Time. to check all the issues, riiiiiight.”

      5. Yami Bakura*

        In response to an article asking “how can we make ourselves lean?” (in the business sense), I was seriously tempted to comment “Lose weight.” I still hate business speak, but man, some of the buzzwords we had this decade were really off the wall.

        1. Antilles*

          In order to make ourselves lean, I recommend we optimize the use of the company exercise facilities. Studies show that personnel which properly utilize these facilities are often more lean, leading to more desirable outcomes.

          1. Yami Bakura*

            In order to achieve our strategic objectives, we will improve and empower our core competencies by exercising our physical cores.

            1. Djuna*

              “Working our core” gets said a lot in my workplace. It always makes me do that rapid-blink, slight headshake thing.
              We are not a gym, though we have started offering yoga classes to employees so I guess people can work their actual cores alongside their jargony ones now?

        2. Working Hypothesis*

          My immediate reaction would be, “Stand approximately a foot from the wall, with your back to it. Incline your upper body until it rests against the wall. Allow your weight to rest in your shoulders.”

    3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I spend a lot of my day replying to client emails. There are SO MANY things I want to say but don’t.

      1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        To expand, the emails I bite my tongue over the most have to do with market losses.

        “I thought this was supposed to be a good fund!! Why did it lose money??” Um. Because. That’s what happens in the stock market sometimes?
        “I’m not sure I want you managing my account after all.” Well, it’s a self-managed account, so maybe look in a mirror.
        “I am a Certified Tax Professional and I can tell you that wash sales are supposed to work like [insert flagrantly wrong information here].” A) is that a real title because I’m not sure, and B) I am a licensed investment advisor and I’m gonna bet on my license over yours any day when it comes to investment stuff. There are plenty of CPAs I’ve dealt with who are really not familiar with the ins and outs of how investment income is determined.

        (Nothing against CPAs on that last one; the ones I’ve dealt with are generally awesome at the stuff that’s more firmly in their wheelhouse.)

        1. King Friday XIII*

          Certified Tax Professional is totally a real thing. I was one in college because I took an evening class from H&R Block and working for them paid better than food service. It’s not the most competitive certification ever, more like a driver’s license for taxes.

          1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

            Hah, all the more reason for me to feel justified, then. My broker/advisor licenses were brutal to get, and our pass rating on those exams is abysmal. I think out of the 25-30 people I started with, 4 managed to pass both required exams.

          2. TardyTardis*

            Try getting a certification in Oregon–80 hours of instruction, a test that less than half the people pass, and lots and lots of fees. (why, yes, I did pass my test at 89%, but mainly because I read *really really fast* and was able to check my answers fairly quickly, it was an open book test).

        2. Guitar Lady*

          Yeah, that’s not a thing. There is no national or governmental body that certifies Tax Preparers. In fact, the IRS tried to implement a certification program and was stopped by lawsuits claiming it was overstepping it’s authority. H&R Block may claim it’s preparers are “certified” but they are certified by…H&R Block, and as someone who worked for them, that’s totally meaningless.

        3. Anonymous for this...*

          I am a “Certified Tax Volunteer” in my state, and I have to say that it means very little. I can fill out a 1040 with a little more confidence than your average joe, but if I have to fill out too many schedules, I’m screwed. Go to a CPA people.

      2. AnotherAlison*

        Ah, yes. I have one particular client person who is very inexperienced, yet he’s been tasked with handling “managing” us for one piece of scope. It’s been particularly difficult to get across the difference between what we could do and what we are contracted to do. I’ve been nothing but professional and nice, but it’s so hard.

        1. Arjay*

          I’m someone who works for “that guy” and I apologize oh behalf of all those guys out there. As his support staff, we know he’s ridiculous and we try to advocate for sanity, but it’s hard to get through to him internally too.

        2. PM turned Director*

          I’ve actually said, in this scenario, “As much as I want it to, your business need does not create a contractual obligation for me. The Statement of Work in the contract creates a contractual obligation for me.”

      3. Annie Moose*

        I’m a web developer, and part of our job is to wrangle the clients who are supposed to be testing stuff. And sometimes… sometimes I just wonder what happened to the client’s brain when they were looking at a ticket.

        Case in point: On Valentine’s day, I sent over a spreadsheet of sample data for the client to review. (results from running a particular process) About half of the results were from, say, January 30, and the other half were from January 2. In my comments when sending the spreadsheet to them, I even pointed out a couple that were over 30 days old, because that was a key part of testing this ticket.

        Nevertheless, it got kicked back to me because I supposedly hadn’t included data that was older than 30 days. How you can subtract January 2 from February 14 and get less than 30 days, I do not understand. (no, unfortunately I do understand. Instead of actually looking at the days, they just saw all of the data was from January and assumed it was wrong)

        I had to take a very long tea break before I could trust myself to respond politely. If this was one time, I’d be willing to chalk it up to a simple misunderstanding, which is fine! Misunderstandings happen. But these “simple misunderstandings” happen on almost every single ticket, and it just makes it really obvious the clients aren’t reading what we’re sending them. We are pouring our hearts into making this application work FOR YOU and you can’t even read two sentences explaining it before blaming us??

        (bonus additional story: the ticket later got kicked back for a 100% completely unrelated bug on a search screen [note: the original ticket was for a backend process with zero connection to any form of search] which somehow?? prevented them from testing??? even though I tested just fine in the exact same environment despite this apparent world-ending bug??????)

        1. Lucky*

          I am a lawyer, not a software or web developer, but I’ve fallen into a hybrid product owner/implementation manager role for our contract management system, and am the person many users go to when they don’t know/refuse to learn how to use the system. I’ve had people insist that they tried to do X and ‘the stupid system just won’t work,’ not knowing that I can peek under the hood and see every step they’ve taken in trying to do X. So, I’ve had the satisfaction of responding “Becky, I can see that you haven’t logged on for over a month. Go back and log in and actually try X this time.”

          1. Antilles*

            That’s a stunningly common issue in IT. Goes something like this:
            Caller: (Describes issue)
            Me: Did you do this common fix that works like 95% of the time?
            Caller: Oh yeah, I tried that first.
            Me: Really? Well, how about trying it again?
            Caller: I’m telling you, I already did that.
            Me: Just humor me and do it again please. Right now, just as a favor.
            Caller: Whoa! (awkward tone of voice) Uh, not sure why it didn’t work the first time.
            Me: (silently thinking) That’s because you didn’t do it the first time, you liar.

            1. Millennial Lawyer*

              I always do it the first time and there is just some magic IT people have. Magic to make me look stupid.

              1. Specialk9*

                Oh yeah me too. I really did do it the first time! And then I get mad instead of grateful because I look like a liar, but I’m also actually grateful, and arggh.

            2. Jake*

              Yeah, your assumption is wrong. I’ve had this happen to me on the caller end twice. Both times I had tried resetting the router or computer, and it didn’t help. Then IT asks me to do it, and it works. I’m not a liar.

              1. Someone else*

                A lot of times when I encounter this (as the support person) the issue is the person *thinks* they did it, but actually what they did was slightly different or in the wrong order. So they’re not lying, but they’re also wrong that what they before that didn’t work is *exactly* what Support then had them do that worked. But it’s often not productive and/or impossible to figure out what the difference was in how they tried it the first time because when we walk them through the exact steps and they do it and it works, the person still feels that they had done the same thing to begin with.

            3. AJ Pre K*

              That used to happen to my fellow cashiers when I used to train them. As soon as I would walk over to fix it, the register would magically start working. And I mean magically. Nobody would do anything except me glaring at it and it would work. I would tell my cashiers that the registers were used to me threatening to throw them out the window if they didn’t behave!

              1. Easily Amused*

                When I was in grad school learning a very technical/computer related field, this phenomenon became so common that, when I had an issue in the lab, I started asking any nearby fellow student “can you please come over here and watch me do this so it will start working”. I swear it worked 98% of the time… damn computers.

          2. Jennifer Thneed*

            tip: when they really have tried to do something, and they SHOULD know how: make them sit down and do the thing while you point at the screen and say “now push the Enter key”. Make them do the actual typing. It really will help: it will help them finally learn, and it will help you get more time without being bugged by them.

      3. Foreign Octopus*

        I actually did this once.

        I didn’t teach at a school but at a language academy. I was horribly sick with the flu (think muscle aches, blinding headaches, lethargy etc.) and I had to go in for a one hour lesson at the end of term to “babysit” the children who turned up. I put my Netflix on (in English), told them not to talk, and I fell asleep.

        One of them very kindly woke me up at the end of the lesson and wished me a merry Christmas.

        I then spent two hours walking home when it normally took me 20 minutes.

        Not the finest day I’ve ever had.

        1. A tester, not a developer*

          Last week my son’s 6th grade French class was a viewing of Spiderman 2. In English.

          Apparently the poor teacher had a migraine and there were no subs available.

          1. JessaB*

            Damn, Marvel movies nearly always have a French track, at least put the French track ON and pretend yes?

            1. LavaLamp*

              Eh, we used to watch movies in my 10th grade French class and the teacher would just hold up some large attendance cards when the racy scenes would come on and joke with us that they were doing naked yoga.

              That teacher was actually awesome.

              1. copy run start*

                Tangental: I had a teacher show us some movie in high school that had a brief glimpse of full frontal male nudity. Obviously he needed to cover it up.

                Before the movie started, he explained that he’d failed the previous class by thinking he could use a piece of paper to cover it up, but he was using the projector so he ended up having the genitals projected onto the paper. For our class he wisely decided to just use the TV screen…

                …and promptly forgot all about the scene!

                1. Specialk9*

                  “And here is a piece of paper perfectly outlining the genitals, just in case you wouldn’t have noticed it if I hadn’t tried to cover it up.”

    5. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

      I work with huge spreadsheets and business records to be produced in court.

      I just want to edit something to put “f***” or “s***” in one of the blank Xcel cells.

      1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

        I did something similar with a spreadsheet once as a joke on a coworker, luckily the joke was well-received. And luckily that spreadsheet was never sent to anyone else!

        1. anon scientist*

          I made a joke about a foreign leader (a scary one) in a tracked changes comment in a draft of a report…and then one of the people that was supposed to be editing the report shared the document to a whole other meeting, that included representatives of that government! I had him retract the document pretty quickly, and I made sure to tell everyone else that the report draft was confidential!!! Ugh, no one ever said anything, but holy moly.

          I don’t make jokes in writing anymore.

        2. Bea W*

          My dad did a similar thing with a set of plans (mechanical engineer). Before he sent them off for QC he wrote something like “Wakeen is a weenie” and shrunk it down into this tiny speck so that it wasn’t obvious to the naked eye but knowing as a normal part of the QC process someone would discover this abberant speck and zoom in to investigate.

          He thought it was hilarious. Luckily, his co-workers shared his sense of humor. I don’t think he got in trouble for it, at least not in any major way.

          1. Decima Dewey*

            When the pressmen at my father’s newspaper weren’t happy with management but not unhappy enough to strike, they attached the publisher’s name in a headline on the obituary page. Also they inserted into the inside pages of a news story: “{Publisher’s Name] wears elevator shows.” Publisher was seven feet tall.

            As far as my own job is concerned, there are days when I’m tempted “embrace the teachable moment.” Lesson to be taught: don’t piss off the librarian who can end your computer session in a handful of mouse clicks.

        3. Aardvark*

          There is a record in our CRM that exists for Reasons, is hidden from most users, and only three users in the organization besides myself know about it. I once attached a humorous (work-appropriate) comment to it to the effect that it was really really lonely and wanted some company…and timed how long it took for anyone to notice. (419 days.)

          2. Live and Learn*

            I had to test out a custom application submissions tool before we ingested large amounts of data. To do this I had to create a bunch of dummy records to test the ingest and reporting functions. I got tired of making up names off the top of my head so I input records for all the characters names I could think of played by Johnny Depp in movies. I didn’t know they weren’t going to delete them later. My boss figured it out one day when she pulled a report that included Ed Wood, Edward Scissorhands, John Dillinger and Jack Sparrow among others.

            1. Jennifer Thneed*

              I used to routinely use characters from the comic “Love and Rockets” for test data in classes I was teaching. I thought someone, sometime, might get a chuckle. But now that comic is ancient history and nobody will ever notice that Esperanza Glass and Perla Chascarillo are in my spreadsheets.

              1. Comics Nerd*

                They’re still making it! (At least as recently as September 2016 – and it was a free comic on Free Comic Book Day last year, so not too ancient). There’s still hope!

      2. Snow*

        We once got a spread sheet at work where all changes to Wolverhampton (UK town) had been changed to Wolverine – we still have no idea who did it as the spread sheet was one that went back and forth between internal and external departments or even when it had happened as we then checked a few older versions of the it in the archive where it was the same. We found it way more amusing than it technically was.

        1. Free Meerkats*

          Several of our Standard Drawings for Construction Standards, freely distributed internally and externally, had “{City} Pubic Works” in the title blocks. Looking back, they had been that way for close to a decade.

          1. Triplestep*

            AutoCAD user here. I have done something like this, although not quite as egregious. It’s never been great at handling text, but earlier versions of the program were much worse.

            1. copy run start*

              I found an upside-down pentagram in an AutoCAD drawing a few weeks ago. I have no idea if someone had the drawing rotated and drew a star for Reasons or if that particular property is the actual home of the Anti-Christ and Satan gets his internet from us….

      4. bee*

        Oh, I’ve done this! I just type in the blank cell using white font. There aren’t a lot of people looking at my spreadsheets though – so there isn’t much risk.

      5. circus peanuts*

        I work in a library and I used to be the weekend night supervisor in an academic library in the early 90’s. They had told us that they were getting rid of the card catalogs soon and everything would be computerized “real soon”. I had a typewriter and blank cards for the catalog and I made up fake titles and books and filed them in there and waited for the card catalogs to go away. The card catalogs have been whittled down, but they are still there. With my fake entries . . . I don’t even remember which ones they were anymore, the only one I remember was putting an author name in of John Jingleheimer Schmidt and the card also says to see John Jingleheimer Schmidt as well.

      6. CarrotCake*

        I once did this on a school paper. But about my teacher. I literally felt ill when I got it back with ‘See me after class’ written on the front. 1000/10 do not recommend. I still feel ill about it over a decade later.

        I’ve since done other stupid things, but that will hopefully remain the worst.

      7. Alli525*

        A former boss was a totally laid-back jokester, and once hid an easter egg of some kind in one of his spreadsheets, mostly just to see how thoroughly any of his clients used them. One day we got an email out of the blue from a client – for the first and only time in THREE YEARS, someone had found the easter egg. So we mailed him a signed headshot of my boss with a silly note and some sort of company swag as a reward. That was one of my most fun days at that job.

    6. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      Every time someone complains that their “data isn’t right,” and I know 100% that it’s not because of an error on my part (and 95% of the time, it’s because they have bad data management practices), I just really want to respond with, “Well, it’s your shit data, you do something about it.”

      But I don’t. Oh the day.

      1. Redundant Department of Redundancy*

        Well once I got so fed up of someone who kept asking me the same thing over and over (I was on reception). I said ‘Good Day Sir’ then turned away. He asked me again I turning and shouted ‘I said Good Day Sir’ (ala Gene Wilder from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory).

        It felt sooooo good.

        2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

          That is amazing! Oh how I would love to do that.

          My ultimate career goal is to retreat further into the depths of IT so no client can ask me these things again. I can’t fix your bad data entry, people!!!!

        4. Elizabeth West*

          AHAHAHAHAA

          I love it when you can use movie quotes IRL in context. I got to do it one time at OldExjob, right around the time The Dark Knight came out. I’d seen that film eight times in the cinema and everyone at work knew I was obsessed with it. I even had a quote contest going with the FedEx guy, which I won. :)

          I was in the back office filing stuff in the client files. I usually did this by scooting my chair around from cabinet to cabinet, instead of bending down to reach the lower files and killing my back. There was a rug over the carpet with a tendency to wrinkle, and it kept catching my wheels. I complained about it to my supervisor. She said yeah, it was annoying but BossWife didn’t want to spend the money on a better rug or to replace the carpet.

          I said, “It’s not about money…..it’s about sending a MESSAGE!” in my best imitation of Joker’s voice. Then my supervisor and I cracked up, LOL.

        1. Triplestep*

          Me, too, but with higher-ups. EVERYONE thinks they are a designer. No one wants to hear that their ideas wont work due to unsexy things like, you know, building code. ADA compliance. Just plain lack of space. I have learned to say “oh, great idea … I will try that!” And then wait an appropriate amount of time to say “aw, it did not work due to (fill in the blank with something I already knew.)

          This is not to say we can’t factor in other people’s ideas. Just that people tend to bristle at being told immediately that their design ideas won’t work due to some mundane reason even if I can see it from a mile away.

      4. Wendy Darling*

        I used to be a data analyst for a crap company with crap data practices all down the line. Their data was just not appropriate for the kind of analyses they wanted me to do — they weren’t collecting the right stuff, they were collecting it super poorly, their demographic data was out of date, they had data smeared across multiple formats but none of them were really appropriate, their versioning system was “user_data_2017_realone_final2.xlsx”… you name it, if a thing could go wrong with data it was wrong with this data.

        Every time I got yelled at for not being able to draw firm/any conclusions from the hot mess they called data I had the urge to be like, “Garbage in, garbage out, assholes.”

        1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

          That is 75% of the departments I worked with at my university. Constantly changing degree plan codes, reusing codes for various things, no timely or accurate data entry of any kind, and would not inform everyone of changes that were made, so it was a constant battle of “well MY numbers don’t match THEIR numbers.” No shit, Sherlock. You all have different definitions for the same thing and no one will agree on anything, even after YEARS of meetings about the same stuff!

          I’m in a more behind the scenes role now (ETL development instead of reporting) and I’m sooooooo much happier. There’s a nice layer of report writers/analysts between me and the end users.

        2. analytica*

          [insert gif of child laughing and then suddenly starts sobbing]

          But yes, this. I have felt this before.

        3. Bea W*

          When people insist on arguing with me about database and electronic data collection design and proper training and usage of those things, I get ornery and issue a blunt warning about “Garbage in, garbage out”.

          If they’ve failed to heed the 1st warning and later complain about the quality of their data I get to say it again but with an “I told you so!” tone.

          Seriously, do not make this hard. Collecting usable data does not have to be this hard! Garbage in, garbage out. Simple rule. Follow it!

    7. Amber Rose*

      Abuse my label maker for great evil.

      Sarcastically ask people if they’d like to buy a dictionary along with the part name that they’ve horribly mangled, or the complete system they asked for right after saying they were just looking for parts.

      Blast “Die Motherf***er Die” over the speakers. It’s my favorite angry song.

      1. Ann*

        The other engineers in my office sometimes steal my label maker to make silly labels (eg labeling the microwave “microwave”). I don’t mind as long as they’re not using the expensive label maker, since the rolls for that one are $8 per foot!

        1. Liane*

          I don’t remember the company, but a laboratory supplier I sometimes ordered from years ago, would send free calendars with a comic featuring a “cast” of oddball lab scientists. The lab counters in these comics had tons of drawers and cupboards, all labeled (not unusual in labs). BUT, the labels ranged from typical lab stuff (“Magnetic Stir Bars,” “Thermometers”) to WTH (like the one with a drawer each for various holidays from well known like Christmas to lesser to “probably imagined by someone who didn’t use the hood and inhaled chemical fumes”).

      3. Trout 'Waver*

        First thing I did with our label maker was print of a “label maker” label and stick it right below the display.

    8. Chameleon*

      I just had a couple students cheat on an exam and I kind of want to write them an email with the subject line “say goodbye to your A, idiots”

      1. Artemesia*

        If one cheated off another or they collaborated on the cheating, grade the papers then give them half what they earned – half each since it was one effort.

    9. ThatGirl*

      I’m in a customer facing role and sometimes I just want to tell people they’re idiots. Because honestly. But no, I am always professional and polite.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        God, I don’t miss those days. I was on the verge of saying the same thing at least twice a day.

    10. Leah*

      Sleep on the couches in the reception after lunch, blanket and pillow and all. I pray that my next job offers some sort of break room…

    11. Lore*

      I do a lot of proofreading and manuscript editing, and constantly fight the temptation to add a sentence to a particularly egregiously awful piece of prose–either a totally random non sequitur to see if anyone is reading this garbage, or an acknowledgment that it’s awful and I tried my best to make it better.

      I figure if I’m ever ready to go down in flames, I’ll try it with a high-profile or notoriously difficult author and see how long it takes to be busted.

      1. shep*

        I did a brief stint as a contract editor for a small but reputable (at the time) publisher, and the founder herself set up a phone call with me to explain how passionate the author was about the book I was about to edit, and how she just needs a little help with grammar.

        I thought it was weird. Then I got the manuscript.

        It was an ABSOLUTE train wreck. I can only assume said author was a family friend, or the founder owed her money and couldn’t pay, or SOMETHING. Oh my goodness. No amount of editing, short of scrapping the entire thing and getting a completely different person to write it, was going to save that manuscript.

        I had to ask for an extension and then ended up white-knuckling my way through it and immediately submitting my resignation along with the “edited” manuscript.

        Coincidentally, a year or two later, several authors and contract editors came forward about not having been paid yet for their work, which yielded even more horror stories about the workings of this press, and the borderline abusive behavior of the founder.

        Whew. I am SO glad I got out of there when I did!

        1. shep*

          (Also out of morbid curiosity, I dug out the old edit letter I also sent the author, and OH MY GOODNESS did I ever put so much time and kindness into that thing. I don’t even know if it made it to the author, and if it did, I imagine it fell on deaf ears.)

        2. Fact & Fiction*

          There is a reason I had to start declining requests to review manuscripts after I got published. If it’s a fellow pro or a friend I know can write, that’s one thing. But too often in the past I was getting things that were so far past my ability to help with a little feedback that it was stressing me out. I love to help but man…There’s just no good way to give helpful feedback when something really is that atrocious. Either I just can’t help, or they’re someone who doesn’t REALLY want actual criticism. I remember I donated a critique in a charity auction once and the winner flat-out raged on me and I was like NEWP!!!

          1. shep*

            Yeah, I made the [recent] mistake of agreeing to trade work with a friendly acquaintance at work, who would often wax ranty about other people’s inability to string written words together. I thought, “Oh, X knows at least a little about what they’re doing.” NOPE. Their work was…not good. They seem totally oblivious to this fact, AND seem to think their own critique of my work was pretty valuable. (It was VERY MUCH not, at least stylistically.)

            I like this person, but I don’t want to trade work ever again and as basically the most conflict-averse person ever, I’m struggling to come up with a way to tell them without hurting their feelings. Totally simple in theory; in practice, I’m horrible.

            Anyway. I totally commiserate.

            1. Fact & Fiction*

              I feel you! You mayhave to pull the “Oh my gosh I’m too busy to exchange work for the next (EVER!) I’m so sorry!” line.

              Also WTF autocorrect – no I don’t mean busybody and Nextel! I didn’t even typo!

        3. Former Border's Refugee*

          Was this perhaps a once respected publisher that took it’s name from a geological formation?

      2. Alex*

        I manage copyeditors/proofreaders, and we have one who totally does this (the snarky comments about the quality of the work, not a random non sequitur).

        It doesn’t get back to the person who wrote it, so we just think it is funny.

        1. Fact & Fiction*

          Haha I used to do the same basic job. Without putting the snark in print. Super tempting sometimes.

        2. Lore*

          Oh, I do it all the time in the manuscript. The temptation is to write in something in, like, second pass, when no one but me sees it later and it will end up in the book!

      3. Another editor*

        Some things I find myself wanting to say in my comments:

        “WTF does this even mean?”
        “I don’t even know where to start with this”
        “Why do you hate the Oxford comma so much?”

      4. valc2323*

        oh, man, I reviewed a report that a grantee had submitted that actually did have the words “I don’t think anyone at actually reads this so la la la asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf”

        Yep, we read ’em, and evaluate the merits of your program based on what you send in. Say goodbye to your funding.

    12. Mananana*

      Because I believe our employee evals aren’t useful (or even read that closely) I listed one of my accomplishments as “Mananana is Queen of All She Surveys”. It went through my rater (immediate boss) and senior rater (grand-boss). Neither noticed it, so my official, federal gov’t evaluation lists QASS as an accomplishment. And it’s signed by a Lieutenant Colonel in the US Army.

    13. Sheila's Assistant*

      My boss is the exec assistant and office manager, and people bug her all day long with stuff they make seem like an emergency, but end up being something that could easily be emailed like ordering a calculator. If they can’t find her, they come running to me, “Where’s Sheila, where, where where is she?????” One exec wanted to know exactly where she was and I finally said she was in the ladies room. He barked, “well how long will she be???” Boy, you have no idea how much I wanted to say, “it depends if it’s #1 or #2, how long does it take you?”

      1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

        Gaaah I hate it when people do that. I used to work in instructional design, and there was this professor who would call at 7am and demand to speak with my coworker, who always started at 9am. She knew she started at 9am, and her meetings were never scheduled before 9am. But Prof. Impatience would bark at me, “But where is she??? Why isn’t she here?? We have a meeting!!!” This professor also would email us on the weekends to say, “I will meet you at 730am” and not bother to verify that with us, and then get angry when we didn’t show up for these “meetings.”

        2. Argh!*

          One of my reports has an earlier schedule than the rest of the staff. My boss’s admin never fails to call with a question that only that one person can answer about 10 minutes after COB for them.

      2. Batshua*

        I had a person who thought he was my boss bang on the door while I was in the single person bathroom and demand to know if I was in there.

        What was the emergency? Paperwork. Paperwork that wasn’t even time sensitive. I reported him to my supervisor.

    14. Ten*

      Today is my last day at a job I’m very happy to be leaving, and I so badly want to tell certain people exactly what I think about them. But I will refrain. I’m not usually too tempted to be unprofessional, except in that way.

      1. Trillion*

        Who hasn’t fantasized about that!? “Screw you, screw you, you’re cool, screw you, screw you to hell.”

        It kills me how, when someone quits, suddenly their opinions about the company and its practices don’t matter any longer. Exit interviews are, at best, a waste of time. But worker who leave are just “quitters” who are disloyal and deserved to be shunned. Just dismiss their revelation that the manager is abusive and the internal politics are harmful and Jerry isn’t following procedure for sensitive data.

      2. Middle School Teacher*

        One of my colleagues likes to say that if she wins the lottery and quits her job, everyone at school will get an identical envelope. The people she likes will get a ticket for a cruise, and the people she can’t stand will get a note saying “bite me”.

      3. Bleeborp*

        OOh this is a fantasy I’ve definitely had. I had 2 part time jobs for a long time and I was hoping to (and eventually did) go full time at one place but I had all kinds of ideas of who I would tell off at each job. At the job I left, of course, I didn’t tell of the person (I do still fantasize if I ran into her in public what I’d say…she’s one of these people who seems very sweet and motherly but is actually a manipulative, hateful person; it’d feel so good to tell her that I see through her facade!) At the job I did get, I didn’t want to tell off a coworker but I work at a college and there are various student groups that table to promote themselves and there is one that I disagree with vehemently and I fantasized about just upending their table and yelling at them that they are spreading harmful lies. I still think about it every time I see them on campus! Not very professional so unless I quit because I win the lottery and can burn all professional bridges, I probably won’t be doing that.

    15. Recently Diagnosed*

      My job involves describing the details of my company’s onsite security to potential clients in agonizing detail. I want so badly to write about how we have a fully functional moat and drawbridge, water fully stocked with both crocodiles AND piranha. In order to be allowed in, you must first have your father and mother insulted by a man with a clearly fake French accent.

    16. Spooky*

      I don’t know if this counts because I actually did do it, but I’ll share anyway:

      When I was a freshman in college working in a psych lab on campus, I made a list of my top ten favorite test subjects who had ever come in and hung it on the wall by my desk (not in a public area, only employees could see it.) To give you some idea, my top favorites were “Cheeseburger Pants Man” (the guy who showed up to the test with 9, count ’em, 9 cheeseburgers stuffed in the pockets of his cargo pants. Polished off all of them by the time the test was over) and “Melon Guy” (the guy who showed up with a massive watermelon twice the size of his head, asked for a plastic spoon, broke the melon open on his knee, ate the whole thing during the test, and handed me a pile of dripping rinds on his way out. Psych labs are wild, y’all.)

      Looking back, I can see why this was a horrible idea, but at the time I literally could not understand how it was problematic at all.

        1. Ghost Town*

          Totally agree – learning all about office management, strategic relationships, professional etiquette, and so on.

      2. Jillociraptor*

        Okay but have you ever clicked over to AAM while forgetting that you were projecting your screen on a very boring video call? #guilty

        1. Falling Diphthong*

          Fortunately the screen projection is always from the Art Department, which isn’t me. I do check settings carefully if the cat is trying to help, of course.

    18. Bea W*

      Nap in my cube.

      Like everyone else, what I say in my head and what comes out of my mouth or my keyboard are two entirely different things. I quite frequently have wanted to reply “Oh hell no.” to unreasonable requests and “Are you effing insane?!”, “WTF”, “Whatever.”, “Sorry, I’m all out of f*cks today”, etc. and a variety of memes expressing similar sentiments.

      Insert random unrelated things into documents to see if anyone is actually reviewing them.

      1. Polaris*

        My cube is situated such that if I did this no one would be able to see me, and there’s actually quite a lot of space underneath. It’s very tempting sometimes. I have a colleague who did do this, but it was less “napping” and more “curling up in the dark because migraine”.

      2. Ten*

        Once I had to loop in my boss on a particularly aggravating series of miscommunications between my office and our sister site in a different state. After they changed their story for about the tenth time I privately emailed my boss the Steven Colbert *headdesk* meme. I think it helped both of us.

    19. Cube Ninja*

      In my role managing wage garnishments, I regularly get to say things to external contacts that aren’t necessarily unprofessional, but are entirely too satisfying when talking with ornery people.

      “Whether the check is written for $2 or $200,000, it doesn’t change the cost of the check.”

      “That’s fine, I’ll indicate that you’re refusing to implement this garnishment and my legal department will follow up with you.”

      From external contact, “How do I know this is legitimate?”
      Response usually indicates our agreement w/ Federal gov’t, court precedents and our orders include the relevant legal statutes.
      “Well I just want to make sure you’re legitimate.”
      Response: See above re: legal. :)

      My personal favorite was the lady whose employment we verified and she called about six different people before landing on me. Her issue was that the person we spoke with was apparently authorized to verify employment, just not HER employment. I told her directly that was an internal issue for her company because we have to rely on employers, you know, not lying to us. :) Our complaints department told her the same thing after she took it to director level.

      1. Marthooh*

        Re: people who want to know if you’re legitimate – you DO keep a copy of your parents’ marriage license on hand, right?

    20. Addison*

      I kind of want to reenact the end of the Devil Wears Prada book when Andi just goes F** YOU, MIRANDA!! F** YOU!! and leaves, but to my entire workplace. I suppose I could be pragmatic and just serve a few select individuals with this treatment before I execute a grand stormout, but honestly just bleating it through a megaphone would be fine too.

      Alternatively, sometimes I want to do that “I quit” music video that one person put on youtube, where they filmed themselves dancing and partying at their empty workplace and uploaded it the next morning. That would be so nice. But I’d probably accidentally violate hipaa in there somewhere, so maybe I’ll just stick with the profanity. It’s safer.

    21. Cute Li'l UFO*

      -Feeding condiment packets into the industrial shredder
      -Sending the entirety of the “You lose, good day sir!” speech from Willy Wonka to the team responsible for continually throwing me under the bus and blaming me for assets done wrong before I started that contract

      My art director was absolutely fed up with how that team was treating me (look at me! I’m the contractor! I’m expendable!) and really really wanted me to go through with the second one.

      I drove home on my last day whoopin’ and hollerin’ like Howard Dean in 2004.

      2. Argh!*

        “-Feeding condiment packets into the industrial shredder”

        I’m so glad I wasn’t drinking soda while I read that! *LOL*

    22. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

      Being snarky with the team next to us. I’m tempted to give them bibs, since they behave like 10 year olds (tantrums included).

    23. Elemeno P.*

      I give a lot of presentations in person and online via screen sharing, and I always want to drag a cute picture or video onto the screen when I’m done.

      When I know my audience well, I give in to this temptation. My last presentation ended with a video of a dog licking the screen.

    24. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

      I have lost count of the number of times, when someone has come to me complaining that their expected figures don’t add up, that I want to scream in their face “THERE ARE 31 DAYS IN MARCH, NOT 30! And the reason your forecast is wrong is down to DAILY RATES! Which you should know because you have worked here and submitted this forecast to me every month for FOUR YEARS!”

      *sigh* it’s been a very long week

      2. Umvue*

        “THERE ARE 31 DAYS IN MARCH, NOT 30! “

        Wasn’t there a Parks and Rec episode where this was a major plot point?

    25. Odyssea*

      When people tell me that the computer/printer/copier is broken or not working, and really it’s something they’re doing/not doing, I just want to yell,

      “It’s not the computer, it’s you!”

      But I don’t, even if I’m think it inside.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        My husband used to repair copiers. He always said, “You don’t fix the copier, you fix the person running the copier. He said that he did not really do true repairs anyway, most parts you unplugged the bad and then plugged in the good. He called them “plug and pray” parts.

        1. MissLibby*

          Our repair person doesn’t repair ours either….he tells me it is the humidity (summer) or lack of humidity (winter) and that I just need to fan the paper. We go through several weeks of jamming, calling for service, him showing up so he can tell me whether the air is too humid or too dry before he will change out a part or pretend to. Last fall we did this for several weeks and one day another technician responded and removed the paper clip stuck inside that had been causing the machine to jam for weeks.

      2. nonymous*

        A former coworker used the acronym PICNIC “Problem in chair not in computer”. He gleefully trotted this out when describing the issue in front of the person, often with the unsuspecting soul nodding along in a “Gosh! K is so smart to solve that problem, and he thinks it’s fun like a picnic! what a gem!” manner

        2. curly sue*

          My father used to use ‘PEBCAK’ – Problem Exists Between Chair and Keyboard – for the same thing.

    26. NJ Anon*

      We had a dick coworker come in and shut the door of the office he shares with someone else. I put a “DANGER – QUARATINE!” sign on the door.

    27. Grandma Mazur*

      Take my cats into work. Especially when they were at their cutest and most inquisitive, between kittenhood and fullgrown cathood.

    28. Shark Lady*

      The team that sits next to mine always complains that my team is too loud, yet they often have group huddles that involve clapping and cheering. I really want to bring in an air horn and blast it at them the next time they do that.
      Also, there are several people to whom I’d really like to say, “Sorry (not sorry), but if you can’t get your work right we will no longer be processing your transactions.” Because nothing makes my day like hounding the same team over and over to fix their mistakes.

    29. Teal Green*

      Every time I’m fed up with my job, I picture quitting by throwing a pile of paperwork in the air and shouting “Peace out, bitches!”

      1. LimeRoos*

        +1 to Ed Debevic’s. So sad it’s gone :-(
        And agreed it would be amazing to snark away at people sometimes.

    31. paul*

      Any time I have to work with the state government I get an overwhelming urge to torch all the bridges after a few days.

      1. CarolynM*

        This morning I had a mutual admiration society meeting with one one of my good payers – I was sending her an updated statement after I had chased down an elusive credit she was legitimately owed and we went back and forth 5 or 6 times about how much we appreciate working with each other.

        Meanwhile, in another e-mail I was battling a pants-on-head-stupid douchecanoe who was 48pt bold ALLCAPS red text yelling at me about how dare I place his account on credit hold for an invoice I had specifically warned him had to be paid by {date} else he be placed on credit hold … first warning (if you don’t want to count the invoice we originally sent them as some sort of notice we expect payment by a certain date …) was sent a month before {date} when the invoice was already 30+ days past due, second warning 2 weeks before {date} … but I am The Worst (TM) for putting him on hold for no reason and giving him no warning of the reasons I am accused of not having in the first place.

        I have freakishly thick skin, but there are some days when I could weep with sweet relief just talking to a decent customer who remembers that I am human, or at least close enough to human not to treat like utter garbage. All in a day’s work … I didn’t choose the AR life, the AR life chose me! :)

        1. Paquita*

          Fellow A/R person here. We receive both checks and electronic payment. Most customers send emails letting us know what the payments are for. Occasionally we need to contact one and ask for remittance information. All we have is a date, name, and amount. Customer will say please give me one of the invoice numbers, or the check/ACH number, or whatever else. Argh! ALL WE HAVE IS DATE NAME AND AMOUNT! You need to provide the other information TO US! And NO we cannot just apply the money to any open invoices, this creates a bookkeeping nightmare when you come back and try to say that’s not what I really meant to pay.
          And no we can’t tell you everything you paid for the last five years and send all the supporting documents.

    33. Thing1*

      I once came *this close* to making a “that’s what she said” joke in front of an entire class of students (college freshman mostly). I probably could actually have gotten away with it, but I’m glad I didn’t. The weird part about it is that I don’t make that kind of joke–that was probably the only time I’ve ever really wanted to, so I’m still not sure where it came from.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        Every once in a while someone just tees it up for you so perfectly that it is difficult to resist.

        I actually usually don’t hold it against people if they make the joke after I have unknowingly laid all the ingredients before them, even if it’s a joke I would normally object to, because I am too familiar with the urge to make the perfect (but inappropriate) joke.

        1. Thing1*

          In this case I was actually the one who set it up–I was talking mostly to myself while trying to figure out how to get one of the student-supplied USB sticks to emerge from its protective casing, and, well. . . (that lab was terrible, students would bring in their own USB and then be standing there lined up waiting while I tried to figure out how the cap or sliding thing or whatever worked on every weird USB they’d bought.)

    34. Wendy Darling*

      I work on chatbots for large corporations — the little helper boxes that pop up in the corner on a website all “What can I help you with today?”

      I have so many urges to be brutally, inappropriately honest.

      “Why is it so hard to change this thing about my account?”
      “We make it hard on purpose because we make more money if you don’t change it.”

      “I got a late fee because you didn’t get my payment before the due date!”
      “No shit Sherlock, that is HOW THAT WORKS.”

      “I liked the old version better!”/”I’m going to boycott you because you advertised on a show I disapprove of!”/”You’re a bunch of crooks!”
      “Thank you for submitting your feedback into this black hole where no one will ever read it except maybe the person our company contracts to to keep this soulless chatbot running, rather than wasting one of our customer service reps’ time with it, because we totally do not care.”

      1. Trillion*

        Oh man, brutal honesty is like my #1 unprofessional fantasy.

        “Why did the system [do that]?”
        “Did the click the box that said [make that happen]?”
        “Yes.”
        “Did you think the box was a lie? Can you read words?”

        1. Wendy Darling*

          My mom is not computer-literate and I have had this conversation with her almost verbatim.

          “I updated Windows and now all my stuff is gone.”
          “Did you click the box that said it would remove all your stuff?”
          “Uhh, probably?”
          “Soooooo why do YOU think all your stuff is gone then?”

        2. Alli525*

          I once had an anonymous tumblr to post screenshots of the dumbest emails we got. (I of course blocked out any identifying details.) It was incredibly cathartic.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I always wanted to insert something like this into reports I edited:

        “I know this setting will generate more fee income but for f*ck’s sake don’t do this to your customers I don’t even know why we engineered it run away run away. “

    35. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      Tell people to read their f’ing email.

      Honest to God. 90% of my day is answering emails that require me to forward and/or attach an email string that they were too lazy to dig for. (If I’m feeling particularly catty, I may forward each one separately…)

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I have definitely replied to emails asking me questions that were already answered by highlighting the answer and saying “see below”.

        2. Wendy Darling*

          I’ve had people email me being salty about me having not answered some question of theirs and I’ll send them the email I sent them two weeks ago with the answer in it, with the answer highlighted, and be super concerned about whether their email is working correctly since they apparently did not receive my email.

          Spoiler: Their email always works fine, they’re just blaming me for their inability to keep up with their own inbox.

          1. Rusty Shackelford*

            There are few things I love more than getting to send the concerned “Oh, did this not make it into your inbox, here’s another copy” response.

          2. Jules the Third*

            I am way behind on my inbox, but I make it a point to search for the relevant topic and check whether I’ve gotten an answer before I go back again.

          1. Ree*

            At OldJob, if I didn’t get to write, “Per my last email” at least once a day, my life felt kind of…incomplete.
            Unsatisfying.
            Like, why did I even bother?

            This feeling rarely happened because….NO ONE READS THEIR EMAILS so I got to say B&^%$ DO YOU READ??!!?? multiple times a day and that made me soooooo happy. LOL

      2. cathammock*

        So much this. The worst are the angry emails, with the entire team plus my boss and grandboss copied, demanding to know why I failed to send the thing I was supposed to send and that I definitely sent preemptively to avoid things like, you know, very public attempts to announce that I’m not doing my job.

        I’ve offered to escalate their “not receiving emails” problem to IT a few times, and somehow the original document just sort of magically shows up after that.

      3. Fact & Fiction*

        God bless him or her, but I had a client where I used to work who I had to re-send emails to him or her ALL the time. This person could never keep track of the projects that’s we’re like, their job to track. Drive me batty.

      4. zora*

        The departments in our corporate headquarters apparently never retain anything, because we have literally the same conversations every month.

        I REALLY want to say: “We had this exact conversation last month, why do you keep asking me the same question?!? Have you ever heard of the concept of WRITING THINGS DOWN?!??”

        1. Jules the Third*

          gah, having that problem with someone right now, except that I also handed them written documentation. So frustrating!

    36. Kathenus*

      Years ago there was an all day strategic planning meeting at one of our two locations. Most of our managers went to that location for the meeting, but three of us needed to stay on site in case of problems, so we were video conferencing in. The sound was terrible, so we could hear maybe a third of what was being discussed. And the video quality wasn’t great either. We began amusing ourselves with a bunch of items, and ended up putting an inflatable dinosaur with a glow necklace and hat on it in front of our camera to see if anyone even noticed on the other end. It was there for over an hour. Nope, not a word. We were on mute because we were getting pretty punchy and laughing quite a bit by that point.

        1. Kathenus*

          Done! A match made in heaven. I was lucky that the two coworkers I were with that day were fun and wacky too.

      2. Lipsy Magoo*

        I like the fact you just happen to have an inflatable dinosaur with a glow necklace in the office………….

        1. Kathenus*

          Well, we had an inflatable dinosaur, and a glow necklace. We just decided to play dress up. We also had a toy that was kind of like a flying saucer with a flashing light in it that we were having fun throwing around the room. Pretty sure it ended up with the dinosaur in front of the camera at some point too. Like I said, it was an all day meeting.

    37. Trillion*

      I make training material for HR Technology, and have to use fake pictures and names to replace real pictures and names. I like to pick a theme for the document (like superheros: Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne; or US presidents: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson).

      Lately I’ve been using mammals and have been tempted to use a skunk, donkey, or warthog for people I don’t like. Even though no one will ever know, I’m afraid I could slip up and someone would find out (“Why is did you pick a buzzard for the Payroll manager?”). So I stick to neutral animals like horses and lions.

      1. KR*

        One of my favorite things in my IT job was to include my desktop picture on screenshots for tutorials/instructions. My desktop picture was my beautiful cat.

        1. Trillion*

          Or leave really fun “tabs” open in your screenshots of your browser!

          [Company Software Icon] Log in Page
          [Google icon]super cute kittens
          [Bing icon] best batman villains

          1. Jennifer Thneed*

            OOH!

            I’m going in to about a year of making presentations to people before I work on their documents. Many documents, many presentations. I suspect I’ll be seeing some of them every single time. I hope I get easy-going enough with them to be able to do this kind of thing. (Or the dog licking the screen video. Stuff like that.)

      2. hermit crab*

        I helped design a reporting system for a government permitting program, and all my test users are U.S. first ladies. The documentation has screenshots of, like, Eleanor Roosevelt’s semi-annual report and the error message that Abigail Adams received when she didn’t complete all the required fields.

    38. Anonymous, thanks*

      We’re allowed to have a drink at work on Fridays at the end of the day, which makes me tempted to drink at work at other times, but I don’t! Don’t want to abuse the nice perk they’re giving us.

    39. Anon for this one*

      My deputy and I are about to close on a really big deal for higher ed/state government, and I so, so badly want to announce it to a super loud soundtrack of Cardi B/Bruno Mars “Finesse.”

      Yeah, we got it goin’ on, got it goin’ on
      Don’t it feel so good to be us, ay?

      1. TaterB*

        I am fully in support of this one. I know the choreography, so I would like to offer my services as your backup dancer.

      2. Fact & Fiction*

        Bruno makes fun dance music! I do a couple Zumba routines to his stuff. And Jason Derulo. Can I be backup dancer number two?

    40. Jadelyn*

      When Excel is being fussy about letting me save files I have been known to append “fuck excel” to the end of the filename to distinguish it from the older version, then go delete the old version and rename the current version to not include the profanity. I only do it because I immediately go in and fix it, so I highly doubt anyone will happen to click into that specific folder during the approximately 10 seconds it has that filename.

      Other than that, just telling off managers who are being dense about something.

      1. Erin*

        Hahaha I used to do something similar in college, naming papers saved on my computer things like StupidF***EnglishLitPaper.

    41. Lora*

      Throw something very heavy and/or sharp at my sexist colleagues.

      Failing that, throw my copy of Perry’s Handbook at people who ask me questions they could easily look up the answers to themselves, but they felt compelled to interrupt my flow.

    42. MRK*

      I’m a manager in a retail business and the 3 big ones I must resist are:

      1. Laugh in the face of ridiculous hagglers and tell them to get the hell out of my store.
      2. Give my actual response to the painfully, painfully obvious questions we get from customers, instead of the polite answer
      3. Ask people if I “look like a fucking tour guide?!” when I get asked extremely generic “what should we do/eat/see” questions simply because I work in X city

      1. Pieforbreakfast*

        I was a picture framer for many years and the hagglers were the worst “is this the best price you can do?” Oh, you only needed to ask! I will totally give you the super-secret cheaper price.
        I clearly remember telling a guy who used the “so and so place quoted me a ridiculously low amount for the project” gambit, “That’s awesome! You should totally go with them! Deals like that don’t come around very often!” and handed him his stuff. He just stared, and asked how quickly I could get the project done.

      1. PoetRocker*

        I did use “halp” once in an email where that *should* have been fine/funny…and someone corrected it for me! :D

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I know I’ve said this here before, but during a very protracted and frustrating go-round with the accounting team at Exjob over a stupid edict they put on us, AwesomeBoss sent me an email that was just a picture of a book cover–“The Little Engine That Said ‘F*ck It.'”

          Best boss evaaaaaahh.

    44. The Senior Wrangler*

      I set the till to print a smiley face just before I left my job at a petrol station. I haven’t been back to check whether it’s still there.

    45. Kate*

      My job could be done 100% remotely, but my company doesn’t allow telework. My boss works in a different building. I’m tempted to see how long I could get away with just not coming in. I’d still do my job and adhere to my normal hours, just not at the office. Everybody who works near my cube has plenty of meetings and travel, so it’d be at least a few days before they noticed anything.

    46. Lipsy Magoo*

      I mean I sometimes sit in meetings and wonder… if I got on the table right now and started beating my chest like Tarzan, and screaming, would they even notice? would they stop droning on……….

      But I mean I don’t want to actually do it, it just crosses my mind :)

    47. Banana*

      I work in a field where people get REALLY stuck on minute details. It is kind of our job to do so, but the emotional attachment people get to getting Their Way greatly outdoes the actual importance of the detail, in the long run. When the crap starts hitting the fan about something so minuscule that only we will notice it, I just want to stand up, wave my arms and say “NONE OF THIS MATTERS!!!! NONE OF THIS MATTERS AT ALL! THERE IS FAMINE, DISEASE, POVERTY, AND WAR IN THIS WORLD! OUR TINY LITTLE LIVES DON’T MAKE A LICK OF DIFFERENCE!!!!”

      1. Polaris*

        “Our little lives don’t count at all!” and then someone would have to tackle me before I started doing the rest of Les Mis.

      2. paul*

        I’ve done a less extreme version of that when we were trying to work on cross compatibility between other agencies for how we collected client demographics. I said something something like “We’ve now spent X man hours in this meeting deciding if we should save it First, Last or Last, First. Why is this so painful?” There were two people dead set on F,L and one dead set on L,F and I just did not give a damn.

    48. Oxford Coma*

      I regularly have to restrain myself from reciting all or part of the Billy Madison decathlon speech.

      What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

      1. Lipsy Magoo*

        I work for someone who taught me this ditty, as she has wanted to say that to people a few times here :)

      3. Jiya*

        I have crafted so many polite ways of saying this at work. And I’m happy to be polite! But…yeah, the sentiments above would not be inaccurate.

    49. Ms Mad Scientist*

      I had someone from another lab use our space as her personal conversation area. Lengthy conversations. Every day. Despite speaking to her and putting up signs asking people not to have their personal conversations in our lab.

      She’s moved on, but I was sorely tempted to go to her bench and have a loud conversation. About something gross.

    50. Cruciatus*

      So, this is not on a grand scale, but my replacement kinda did the thing I wanted to do when I worked in that department. I saw K (replacement) earlier in the week and commented about her being able to escape the desk (since it’s a front desk job). She said yes and then started chatting about the office and how miserable she is. It’s the supervisor there, she is a micromanager and she can be cool one day and then awful the next 10 and you just never know which one you’re going to get. When I worked there I even posted here about the letter she wrote me about all the ways I was sucking (as an attempt to help me). It wasn’t work stuff, it was things like “chatting too long with faculty” (you know, the people we WORK FOR IN THAT DEPARTMENT). Gah! So my replacement also got her letter recently–like my supervisor saw her text something, and this and that and nit nit nit nit pick pick pick pick. So my replacement wrote back to this email from (allegedly) the director and (definitely) my supervisor (mine was an actual letter, but K got an email) and nitpicked all the shit the supervisor does that she doesn’t get called out for! She was in IDGAF mode! It wasn’t professional but I LOVE THAT SHE DID IT. She’s still coming in to work as I saw her today! I don’t know what ramifications there will be. The supervisor really does make that place suck. It could be a totally nice place to work (though stressful) but she just adds to the stress constantly. K told me when she was venting to me that she’s in her 50s and doesn’t need to get paid so little to put up with so much shit from supervisor. Amen. A-freaking-men.

      1. Ten*

        I would love to read that exchange! Witnessing mean people being put in their place is universally satisfying.

    51. Delphine*

      Nap in my office. Every Ramadan I lament that I can’t just close my office shutters, duck under my desk, and have a 30 minute snooze.

    52. lnelson1218*

      At a previous job tell a SVP (where the s stood for spoiled, stupid and screaming) to stick it where the sun didn’t shine and walk out saying on the way that since he knows everything, he should have no problem doing my job too.

      Ah, one could dream, I got laid-off before I got the chance. Alas (and it probably would have happened)

    53. Caledonia*

      I work in higher ed so mine would be something to do with either people thinking they are qualified and aren’t OR people who are qualified but who apply after the deadline.

      THE DEADLINE IS ALWAYS, ALWAYS IN JANUARY, PEOPLE. Also, you can’t class yourself as international if you are y’know British or from Europe.

    54. Sparkly Librarian*

      Break into song. I am a children’s librarian, so I can usually get away with that, but this past week I was confronted with a circumstance where it would have been unprofessional.

      A patron comes to the desk and asks about entry-level positions at the library. My boss is out, so I’m temporarily in charge. I explain the basic hiring process (coordinated in City headquarters, not at my small neighborhood branch) and print some forms for her. She also asks me if there’s an exam guide to help her practice, and while I’m looking that up, she asks if I know any memory tricks for “the sections of the alphabet”. I ask for a little clarification (maybe she’s talking about how books are shelved in various genre locations? Dewey?) and her response is sonething like, “What order the alphabet goes in. Like, a song or something?”

      I am pretty sure I stared at her and muttered, “the, um… the song” before my customer service face kicked in and I was able to say, smiling, “Oh, my favorite alphabet song is good for that! Sometimes I find myself humming it while I’m shelving.” (Not true.)

      But I REALLY wanted to put on my storytime face and belt out, “A B C D E F G….”

      1. PoetRocker*

        I’ma librarian, too… and I always sing the alphabet song while shelving! Usually not at the same spot I’m shelving – just on repeat :)

        1. Rainy*

          I used to file and I just couldn’t stop myself from singing the alphabet song on repeat, although sometimes I could manage to shift it sideways into Twinkle Twinkle.

    55. Anon For Obvious...*

      As part of my work I do the occasional piece of equipment maintenance for McDonald’s. Some of their restaurants have a self-inking stamp which reads, “McVoid!” which is presumably used for stamping documents. The “M” in “McVoid!” is the McDonald’s logo. I’m sooooo tempted to steal one of those stamps!

    56. Lynca*

      Roll around the building in my office chair so I don’t have to walk. Sadly it will stay confined to my office.

    57. Librarian Ish*

      We have a couple of long hallways between the cubicles. I have an almost irresistible desire to do cartwheels down them.

      Please note: I cannot do a cartwheel.

      2. Bea W*

        I can do cartwheels and it is so hard resisting this temptation or the temptation to do handstands in my office. I HATE being chained to a desk all day.

      3. Jiya*

        Same, in my old building. I’m talking long and wide hallways, so I could full-on fall sideways and not hit a wall. Never worked up the guts to try it, though, even when I was one of maybe three people in the building.

    58. JanetM*

      I want to post passive-aggressive signs, with the top two being “This is a picture of the CIO making coffee. If he can do it, so can you” and “Flush the d*mn toilet.”

      1. Michael Carmichael*

        We recently acquired a non-flusher. I just posted a sign in our restroom that said PLEASE FLUSH THE TOILET AFTER USE with a picture of a smiling toilet giving a thumbs up. My assistant came to me alarmed because he had found the file on the server labeled Things You Should Not Have To Ask.docx and he thought it was a directive for him.

    61. Archivista*

      I… actually did this one. While working on a database for a private library that’s extremely specialized, rarely patronized, and full of very old books and documents (and, therefore, anyone was unlikely to ever see this), one of the records/summaries included the words “who lives, who dies” and I added about five empty lines and then “who tells your story?”

    62. Butch Cassidy*

      My job involves weekly conference calls for coaching customer service supervisors to make sure their standards for their associates are in line with ours. Each of the groups I work with has at least one supervisor whom I absolutely adore because they care deeply about the work, are whip-smart, kind, resourceful, etc. I wish I could tell them how much I appreciate them.

        1. Butch Cassidy*

          I guess I worry about playing favorites? Like if there’s one supervisor out of 20 with whom I work and I obviously love, what does that say to all the others?

          1. Jules the Third*

            Send an email to them / their managers stating, ‘I really enjoyed [specific thing] about our training – thank you for being so engaged.’ or something like that. If you can point to specific, business-oriented things, it is totally professional. And if you’re concerned about appearances, sending it in the email bypasses that.

            In the training, you could say ‘yes, that answer really gets to the core of what this training is trying to do’ or similar positive feedback.

    63. Alice Ulf*

      In my old position, applicants used to call me all the time to ask their number on the waiting list. After about two years, I had to constantly fight the urge to tell them, “Every time you ask, we send you back to the bottom of the list.”

        1. StrikingFalcon*

          I’ve done this! I was working somewhere where we had a standard estimated completion time of 2 weeks. Someone got REALLY pissy about how it “wasn’t two weeks worth of work” and wouldn’t accept that there were other customers in front of her. The thing was, we weren’t that busy and it was easily the shortest item in the docket. We could have had it done within the hour, and might have if she was nice about it. But she wasn’t, so it was put on the bottom of the pile.

          But then, there was also the time where I literally had to tell someone “every time you call me, I have to stop working on your order to answer the phone. I WILL CALL YOU WHEN I’M DONE.” She showed up in the store 15 minutes later and hovered at the doorway until I finished -_-

          1. Someone else*

            I once was doing a project for a client on the weekend, they were paying extra for this, and they’d been told the work would take all day. 45 minutes after I was supposed to start they emailed and asked for a status report. I didn’t respond because I wasn’t looking at my email, I was doing the work. They kept asking for updates pretty much every hour, until four hours later I finally looked at my email, not because I expected anything on the weekend but more out of habit since I hit a sort of normal stopping point. I had to rope the PM into it (even though he wasn’t expecting to have to “help” on the weekend day) because I was worried they’d be furious, but we also reallllllllllly didn’t want to set the precedent that we’d give them hourly updates throughout the course of a 7 hour process because doing so would turn it into a 10 hour process, and I was too irritated to be sure I wouldn’t say something to the effect of “I can do the work as fast as possible and tell you when I’m done like we told you would happen, or I can waste both our weekends by stopping constantly to tell you that I’m still doing the work. Which would you prefer?”

    64. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      There are sooooo many snarky emails I have drafted and deleted. One of them was, “I can see you calling me an idiot further down in this email thread. Who’s genius idea was it to loop me in?”

      1. Rainy*

        In my last role, I had two direct reports (let’s call them Mary-Kate and Ashley) who ended up having a screaming fight in the hallway a week before the grant they were employed by moved to another department (I took a lateral move to stay in my current department, so they were also leaving my reportage, thank god), because Mary-Kate had sycophantically agreed with someone over email that Ashley was an idiot piece of shit (for doing her job!) and then six or so emails later looped Ashley into the email chain without removing any history from the email, so Ashley read down, saw what Mary-Kate had said, and went and literally screamed at her in the hall.

      2. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

        Oh jeez, wrong “whose!” Ha! Listen, I may be an idiot, but don’t copy me in an email about it! :)

    65. only acting normal*

      Not me, but when my brother worked in retail a rather vague and distracted customer exchanged an item of clothing they’d bought the day before for *exactly* the same thing, same size everything. He did point it out and ask if they were sure (and checked there was no fault with the return), they just looked at him blankly. So he processed the exchange and as they left he said “See you tomorrow!” :-D

      For me. I’m fairly convinced no-one much ever reads more than the abstract/summary of our reports. I’m tempted to put an Easter egg deep in the text somewhere: something whimsical or funny, a movie quote maybe, nothing profane. :)

      1. Ten*

        Once or twice I included movie references in college essays just to amuse myself. I don’t think my professors ever noticed – they never commented, at least.

    66. Sled dog mama*

      Delete all the old crappy forms and replace them with the updated ones I’ve been trying to get approved

    67. Booknerd*

      I want to add bogus check-outs of “50 Shades” plus monster overdue fines to the accounts of the judgemental library patrons who think we should only have religious fiction and Nancy Drew books in the library.

      “Why, Mrs. Whatsis, it looks like your account has been stopped until you pay the $27.50 you owe in overdue fines for “50 Shades of Grey” and that Lorelei paperback where women have graphic sex with animal shape shifters. Will that be cash or do you want to use your debit card?”

      2. Lissa*

        I did something like this when I was a “library helper” in grade 6 to the girls who were bullying me, with toilet training books…

    68. Polaris*

      Sometimes I want to send a thank you card or chocolate to the lawyers who actually send out the documents I draft in a timely manner, as opposed to the ones who let them sit for months while I send multiple reminders that are ignored.

    69. Arjay*

      I’m a liberal arts person working with a lot of science-y people. Most of them aren’t familiar with the Melville story of Bartleby the Scrivener. I can only imagine their blank stares when I finally succumb to temptation one day and respond to an asinine request with a totally deadpan “I would prefer not to.”

      2. Chameleon*

        I was just talking about writing a modern Bartleby where he answers everything with “nah, bro.”

    70. Weyrwoman*

      I work in an email-based support environment, and I’m always super tempted to just write back “NO” in the biggest, reddest font possible when a customer asks a very obviously not-okay ‘hypothetical’.

      1. London Calling*

        I ask for a lot of documents to be sent to me via email – we have our own address and it ends .london. I can guarantee that at least once a day I’ll recite the email address to a supplier, there’ll be silence of two beats and then I’ll be asked, ‘Uhhh, is that .london.co uk?’ So far – SO FAR – I have resisted the urge to say, ‘Listen, idiot, if it was .co.uk I’d have said .london.co.uk, wouldn’t I?’ but it’s getting stronger,

    71. I'll come up with a clever name later.*

      Oh…so many things but this month I’d love to be able to tell off some of the patient’s I deal with. My job involves verify coverage with their health insurance, obtaining authorizations, etc. Occasionally I’ll verify coverage and find out that their insurance requires them to use another provider or that the service isn’t covered at all. This month six different patient’s have threatened to sue the company I work for, me personally, and Obama because their company issued insurance doesn’t cover the service or they need to use another (equally capable) provider because of insurance mandates. I would just love to say “First, Obama has nothing to do with your company issued policy. They didn’t get this on the exchange. Second, good luck with that law suit. And Third – complain to the people at your office who have the power to make changes with your insurance. I can’t change your insurance. If I could we’d all have universal health care but given that you want to sue Obama, I doubt you’d agree.”

      Ohhh…that felt good just typing that out. :) Cathartic. Welp…back to the tranches for me. hopefully the next patient who yells at me won’t get to me like before. :)

    72. Justme, The OG*

      I really really really want to blast some profanity-laden rap music. The faculty around me are gone right now, so it might be

    73. What's with today, today?*

      Ha! I’m on the radio five hours a day in a small town with lots of fun small town politics. You just can’t know how much shit I want to talk.

    74. Angela*

      Love this question!

      Mine: Sometimes, I would love to curl up under my desk and take a nap. Give me a yoga mat and a blanket and I’d be nice and cozy!

    75. Aleta*

      I have wildly fantasized about, when a customer calls and immediately leads in their order, just going “Sure thing, we’ll get that right out to you!” and hanging up. It was more annoying when we had a paper ticket system and I didn’t want to write anything down until I knew they were in zone and they’d get annoyed when I asked them for their complicated order again. Now there’s a digital system that can accommodate it, but not all digital systems can! The one we had at a certain freaky fast sandwich shop was VERY strictly phone number –> name and address –> order.

    76. Environmental Gone Public Health*

      Ask the homeowners/contractors who call to ask why the (swearing) permit isn’t (swearing more) ready yet???! whether they legitimately believe that their project is the only building project in the entire county. Well, did you ask your designer if they sent in the required design? Because I don’t have one. Or, they sent it 15 minutes ago, and I have 10 ahead of you in queue.

      There are also many days that I’d love to write “are you f*cking kidding me???!” on some designs that get submitted to me. Fun fact: water doesn’t flow uphill. You cannot put a septic system in that is supposed to somehow gravity flow the effluent uphill. That’s not how gravity works. Yet I have some designers that take 5-10 revisions of me telling them the same thing over and over again.

    77. Teapot librarian*

      I sent a survey yesterday and desperately wanted to say “it’s short enough that you can do it while you’re in the bathroom.”

    78. Triplestep*

      After I learned what the Dunning-Krueger effect was (I believe we talked about it here) I really, REALLY wanted to send a link about it to someone at my last job and say “Thought this might interest you …”. It just explained so much!

    79. Amy Farrah Fowler*

      omg… so many things.

      I do hiring of part-time remote employees, so we do a phone interview, a skype interview, and then online training before they’re up and running. I can’t tell you how many times I will invite someone to a phone interview (send an email and leave a voicemail), wait a couple days, send a second invite by email (and sometimes a 2nd voicemail as well) before finally send them an email to close the loop. SOOO many people reply to that email with “yes, I’m still interested”.

      You didn’t read my email… you didn’t respond to the AT LEAST 3 other communications I sent you… Sometimes I want to reply with something equally unhelpful like: “Good for you” or “Sorry not sorry”

      I do not do this ever… but man the temptation!

    80. Kelly S.*

      I just noticed the links to previous posts. I must say I’m intrigued by Nerf gun battles in the office. ;)

    81. JustShutUpAlready*

      Tell the evil diva drama queen who sits next to me, who spends hours snickering, grunting and howling on personal calls bitching about how she hates her job to JUST F***KING LEAVE and make us all happy!

    82. hiptobesquared*

      I work in IT and for sure sent out a fake spam email and last time I used the Hampster Dance as the link. I’m totally going to rickroll them next time.

      1. This Daydreamer*

        Ha! I use that as my alarm clock. It’s the only thing I’ve found that is guaranteed to wake me up.

    83. KTM*

      Whenever I get changing requirements from a PM or customer, after I’ve already done a ton of work and now will have to redo it, I always want to shout at them during the meeting/phone call “Once again, things that could have been brought to my attention YESTERDAY” a la Adam Sandler in the Wedding Singer

    84. strawberries and raspberries*

      Yesterday the only thing that got me through the day was listening to the backmasked version of “Stairway to Heaven,” and I so so so wanted to play it out loud instead of with headphones, but it would have vindicated the coworkers that already think I’m a devil worshiper, so.

    85. Catherine from Canada*

      I work for a company that makes fiber optics equipment. There are rolls of fiber all over the place. I want to snap one – just one!

    86. brightbetween*

      Back when I worked in a library branch, we would do announcements over the PA to notify patrons that we were closing (“the library will be closing in 15 minutes…” etc). At closing time, we did one final announcement — “Thank you for visiting the library. We are now closed, we will reopen at…”. I always wanted to tack on “You don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here!”

      1. Sparkly Librarian*

        Those were very fun in already-empty branches. I clearly recall singing, “The library is shut! The library is shut! We scream and shout — You must get out! The library is shut!” over the loudspeaker. We also had a young patron who would hang around until the final announcement so he could warn anyone left that they would be eaten by vampires, etc., if they did not leave on time.

        1. This Daydreamer*

          When I was still working at the bookstore, I had a manager who once said, over the PA system, “Attention all employees. You have five minutes to get to the break room before we release the attack dogs.” I think all of the customers had finally left for the day…

        2. TardyTardis*

          Our library has a tasteful gong which is sounded first fifteen minutes till closing, and then five. You don’t want to hang around too long after that one, you get put to work…

    87. Slippin' and slidin'*

      This week? Scoop up all the %^(*&^ snow that my boss is too cheap to have plowed and dump it on/around his car. Box him in. We’ve had 2+ feet of snow this week, the business is down a quarter mile lane from the road (where no street parking is allowed) and he just thinks we should all buy SUVs like he does. Because a guy who is too cheap to plow the lot at his business also pays crap wages, too.

    88. Argh!*

      My job involves a small amount of writing. I write about the same amount for the web as for internal customers. My boss nitpicks everything I write for internal customers but doesn’t even look at what I put on the web. One time I’d accidentally dragged and dropped half a paragraph into a different paragraph. My boss never noticed.

      So… I’d love to write “My boss is an idiot” in the middle of a paragraph to see what happens, but of course, it’s the web. Can’t do that.

    89. Cedrus Libani*

      Ever since I started my job, my work phone has received 2-3 calls per day (EVERY SINGLE DAY) from the same telemarketer. They’re selling some sort of trade magazine.

      Fortunately, phones aren’t really used in my office, so nobody else calls me. I’ve turned off the ringer. But I’m sufficiently annoyed by this point…if I wasn’t working for a giant corporate entity that’s touchy about its public image, I’d be having some fun with these calls. I desperately want to transfer them to one of those phone lines that makes non-committal noises of agreement on an infinite loop.

    90. Anonymous for this fantasy*

      I work at a large natural history and science museum, where we have elevated walkways on two floors in our work area that overlook the public floor below us. I fantasize about taking a squirt gun and shooting water at people below me and then ducking so they can’t see me. My after-hours fantasy is to run around with my co-workers and have an enthusiastic squirt gun battle all over the public floor and in the aquarium. That would be so awesome.

    91. G*

      I get really tempted to bring my phone into the kitchen to use it to play music. A lot of the time we don’t get the radio however we always do after 8 and at that time of the night it’s always playing classical music. Classical music is okay but it’s not exactly motivational when there are a whole load of tired employees. There needs to be something more up tempo playing.

    92. This Daydreamer*

      My job now is so laid back that there isn’t much temptation. 95% of the job description is “Be there in case the phone rings or a resident needs something.” So, it’s 5:30 in the morning, and I’m taking a break from doing beadwork. I’ll watch some Doctor Who when I’m done reading here.

      I had some fun with my old bookstore job, though.

      One time, there was a sign in the back that was waiting to be displayed in the cafe. It was a massive picture of a slice of carrot cake with thick icing and had everyone drooling. The store manager was especially vocal about it making her hungry and she wished it would be moved away from the door to the staff area where she had to keep walking by it. She didn’t actually move it, of course. So I did. When she found the poster on her desk, she hit the PA system with a very sarcastic “Thank you, Daydreamer”. What? She wanted it moved and I moved it.

      Another day, I arrived for my shift in the middle of a sudden downpour. I didn’t mind it so much, but the guy in the parking space next to mine seemed a bit upset when I paged him. “Attention customers, if you drive a BMW, license plate xxx xxxx, you might want to put the top up.” Too bad about those leather seats.

      Finally, there was the incredibly frustrating day when I was the only one at the cashwrap and no one was responding to my pages. Even worse, I kept on inadvertently answering a phone call when I tried to page for help. The entire store was treated to the PA message of “Head cashier to the front, please. Head cashier to the front. Manager to the front, please. Manager to the front. Manager line one, please. Manager line one. Fergus line two, please. Fergus line two. Customer service line three, please. Customer service line three. Customer service to information one, please. Customer service to information one. Customer service to information two, please. Customer service to information two. Customer service to children’s, please. Customer service to children’s. Any available cashier to the front, please. Any available cashier to the front.” How I got through the whole thing without a single stumble I will never know, but it paid off. The entire line of customers who had been glaring at me cracked up. All of the sudden, I was not the only employee in the store any more. There was a swarm of coworkers who rushed the front desk and all of the phone lines were picked up. And I think that’s when they started having me do the dreaded closing announcements.

      Oh, and there was the one and only time I picked up a cell phone at the cashwrap, again with a long line. Nobody seemed to mind. “Thank you for calling a cell phone left at the front desk at Barnes & Noble. This is Daydreamer. How can I help you?”

    93. Miles*

      I used to work in a sound archive (think library for old music, just not self-service) Sometimes when we got a large donation of materials that included a bunch of duplicates of stuff we already had too much of, my manager would play Frisbee with the dumpster using all the 78`s we had to throw out

    94. Triple Anon*

      When working with kids, I get really tempted to just stop being the Responsible Adult and act like a kid. “Yes, your homework sucks. Yes, let’s watch funny videos instead. It is more fun. Ok, we can have a food fight. No, I don’t care if you use foul language. I won’t tell your parents.” Argh, but they are paying me and I would get in so much trouble if anyone found out . . .

  2. Where to find part-time remote work?*

    Has anyone here used platforms such as Flex Jobs or Virtual Vocations? Did they work for you? I am looking into applying for remote, part-time jobs so I can get more experience in what I think I would like to do in my next job. Before shelling out money for these platforms though, I wanted to see if anyone in this community has used them or if they had any tips for searching for remote, part-time work!

    1. Chupalupe*

      WeWorkRemotely tends to have the best reviews in my opinion – but it depends on what kind of part time work you want to do. Skip UpWork entirely, it’s very hard to make it on there.

      1. Izzy*

        Someone recommended Upwork to me for free lance editing work. After I spent a lot of time creating a profile and submitted it for approval, they denied my “application” because they already had enough editors. Then they sent me an email asking if I already had clients, inviting me to join Upwork if I could bring my clients with me (so they could pay me through their platform instead of directly, and UW would get their cut). Right, why would I want to do that?

    4. anna green*

      I had a subscription to Flex Jobs for a few months when I was looking. If you can get the intro deal, its not that expensive and might be worth a try. One thing I found was that some job listings on Flex jobs are still active on that site, but when you look them up on the company site they are old and inactive. The field I was looking in didn’t end up having too many remote options so it never got me anywhere really, but I felt like I learned about different companies/jobs I wouldn’t have known about. So I think it depends on whether you can afford / get a deal on the pricing.

    5. Roja*

      I got my last job through FlexJobs. I figured I’d pay for a month’s access for $15 and if I didn’t find anything by the end at least it was only $15. I think I found the job in less than a week.

    6. Samata*

      I am commenting mainly for easy reference, but am looking for the same type work. I have a FT job but am looking remote PT jobs to gain more experience in my field, too. I have had the same questions about paying for Flex Jobs.

  3. Anonymous Educator*

    Anyone else with a humanities (or similar) background working in tech (broad umbrella term that could cover tech support, database administration, programming, etc.) experiencing imposter syndrome? How have you dealt with that?

    1. BeepBoopBeep*

      Holy Moly, I did not know there was a term for my over-dedication to my work. I went to look this up and the definition fit me to a T. I do not work in tech, so maybe my answer isn’t relevant. I am a project manager/operations director that oversees customer service and a website, so maybe it is.

      I guess I don’t deal with it- but you’ve made me reflect a little bit, so thank you. I definitely tend to judge my less-than-productive coworkers (most of the time it is justified because they never meet deadlines). I could ease up a bit though.
      Really, thank you for posting this, I was not aware of this term at all.

      1. Teapots for Llamas*

        Oh, man. I’m trying to get into a different industry, in a tech-heavy area. I’m reading job postings and terrified about this. Intellectually, I know that the jobs that I am looking at are positions that use my skills. If I get one of those jobs, I will update you on that!

    2. Turkletina*

      Yep! I work as a (say) teapots project manager. It’s a job that combines technical skills — automatically finding and correcting errors in the design and execution of the teapots, manipulating the colors and design elements that are available to the teapot builders, etc. — with project management — being in constant contact with the freelancers who build the teapots as well as the client-facing project managers, managing quality, budget, and timeline for multiple teapot-types, etc.

      I definitely have imposter syndrome related to the technical parts. Even when I’m feeling like I belong in the role, I tend to frame my skills as “I’m really good at writing a script to find structural problems with the teapots, but that’s too specific and not a real skill that people are hiring for”. That’s maybe strictly speaking true, but in another job I’m sure I could learn quickly to write a script that finds problems in coffee pots or fish tanks. I wish I could believe that!

      What actually helps me is to focus on the parts of my job that I KNOW I’m good at. I have a humanities PhD and did A LOT of teaching in grad school. So when I need to train new teapot builders and teach them about the very specific nuances of our process, I am fantastic at coming up with examples and anticipating questions. So I can tell myself that even if my technical skills are garbage (they’re not; that’s the impostor syndrome talking) I’m worth keeping around because I do have real skills that other folks with a different background might not have in the same quantity.

      If you’re coming from a humanities background, remember that knowing how to think about and approach problems from different angles is a real skill! In a lot of tech work, it’s extremely valuable to be flexible and considered in your approach, especially when it allows you to anticipate risks and problems before they arise.

      1. Tabby Baltimore*

        “If you’re coming from a humanities background, remember that knowing how to think about and approach problems from different angles is a real skill! In a lot of tech work, it’s extremely valuable to be flexible and considered in your approach, especially when it allows you to anticipate risks and problems before they arise.”

        Performing arts major here, working far away from her original discipline. Thank you so much for writing this. I’m going to copy and paste your entire response and email it to myself.

        1. Turkletina*

          Aww, this made my day! I’ve struggled a lot with recognizing my own value as an employee and I’m so glad my experience can be helpful for someone else. :)

      2. Mbarr*

        This! I’m a History major, and I’ve worked in medical industries, tech industries (as a Tech Writer), and now I’m in a Finance industry. I know I lack a lot of the technical know-how my coworkers do, but I bring a much more varied skillset to the team that offsets their one-mindedness at times. Plus, you can pick up new skills along the way that you’d never learn in our Humanities education…

        1. TardyTardis*

          But history makes it easier to spot it when governments are trying to default on a bank a la Fugger et al. Then again, using a bank to finance the purchase over the Suez Canal over a quiet weekend has its charms, too.

    3. ExcelJedi*

      Oh my goodness yes. I have a research psychology background (BA & MA), and about half my job is tech/database work and the other half is analytics. Whenever I’m working on a database, I wonder if they shouldn’t just get someone with a CS degree for this (even though my work is solid and I’ve had great reviews at all the companies I’ve done this for).

    4. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      Ooooh yes. I have a BA English and I work as a database developer. I love what I do, my bosses are very pleased with me and tell me I do great work, but I constantly feel like I’m always behind in what I should know. I learned all my tech stuff on the job – I’ve had some training classes here and there, but I’ve never done anything like “IT infrastructure 101” or programming fundamentals. I feel like my knowledge gaps center around not knowing basic IT infrastructure (like basic networking/firewalls, hardware, etc), and programming best practices. I got into this work by starting out doing para-IT application support and then slowly migrated into IT proper.

      I deal with it by reminding myself that the kind of knowledge I crave comes with experience and time – and that it can be learned. What my bosses like about me are things that aren’t easily taught – a good work ethic, helpfulness, and the ability to see the big picture. We are all aware of my knowledge shortcomings, but they’ve told me time and time again they appreciate that I’m a solid, hard-working employee, and all the technical stuff can be taught. And they are teaching me, so it’s getting better.

      So when I feel like a piece of crap next to the IT dude who’s been programming since birth and knows all there is to know about IT, I just remind myself that 1) different person, different path 2) knowledge takes time to acquire 3) I have many valuable skills – skills that were developed by doing my English degree, like critical thinking – and those help me to acquire the knowledge and skills I need.

    5. Roza*

      Goodness yes! I have a social science background and got somewhat “teched up” in grad school, but just don’t have the same depth of knowledge about and comfort discussing some things that my coworkers who always studied math/engineering/physics/etc have. I’m transitioning into a tech lead role and have to manage the efforts of people I think are waaaay more qualified to be doing this than me, and it is often terrifying.

      One thing I’ve found helpful is to really focus on the teapots I’m tech lead for–rather than thinking about whether I’m the right one for the job, think entirely about how we can make this teapot line as awesome as possible and how Math Wizard Colleague X and Genius Programmer Y can make that happen. Often this involves delegating a lot of decision-making to them. At the end of the day you got this job for a reason, and if you focus on outcomes the skills that got you the job will shine!

    6. Katriona*

      YES. I work for a software company and part of the reason they hired me was my non-techy background (so I can spot things that might be confusing for end users) but when we’re in internal meetings I always feel a few steps behind. I don’t really have good advice for dealing with it, but I’ll be watching this thread with interest.

    7. Coalea*

      Not exactly what you describe, but similar! I’ve recently been assigned to a team where literally everyone else has a PhD in microbiology, molecular biology, biochemistry, etc. I have a BS in a social science and an MPH. The last “hard science” course I took was biology when I was in high school back in the 1990s. I feel woefully inadequate! I try to focus on the things I do well, and volunteer for tasks where my background won’t be a hindrance. I have been very upfront with my colleagues about my knowledge gaps and have asked for additional guidance when needed. To be honest, it kind of sucks at the moment – but I’m hopeful it will get better with time!

    8. You're Not My Supervisor*

      YES. SQL Server DBA (new to this position, formerly a Tech Writer) who has a degree in writing, of all things. I deal with this on a daily basis.

      Don’t have practical advice for you, just wanted to commiserate.

    9. Polaris*

      Not tech, but I have a History and Archives degree and feel so weird working at this law firm doing nothing related to any of my degrees.

    10. DC Limey*

      Yup.

      I have a Theatre Degree and I am a programmer.

      (I also have a Masters in Computer Science, though.)

    11. QA tester*

      My degree is in linguistics with minors in editing and political science but I work as a software tester and have done tech support.

      I haven’t really had much impostor syndrome, sometimes I feel a little of it when I look at the job requirements for QA jobs (both internal and external) which usually require CS degree or something; I feel like if I had applied for my current job now rather than 5 years ago I wouldn’t have gotten an interview based on the qualifications they now put in the job posting. But I love my job, just had my yearly review from my team lead and got a “consistently exceeds expectations” rating. I am well respected in my work place and got a promotion last year (with a nice raise). When I do occasionally feel that maybe I’m out of my depth I usually stop, take a breath, remind myself that while I may not know everything I am qualified for my job and that it is ok to ask questions in order to fill in the gaps of your knowledge/skills to further develop your qualifications.

    12. Hey Anonny-Nonny*

      When my imposter-brain takes over, I just write a phrase that my therapist gave me over and over. After telling her how personally invested I was in every word I wrote for work, she told me, “You know, all they want is the project done. It’s not a judgement of you or who you are. They don’t care how you feel about it. They just want it done and on their desks.”

      So, I just write, “All they want is the project done” in a word document 5-30 times and then do my best to get on with it.

      (And yes, I’m pretty much in your exact situation! It is not easy!)

    13. IT Squirrel*

      *waves* yup, massive case of it over here!

      Not humanities, but I have a design degree, then accidentally ended up doing HR support for a while, before I got my current job doing teapot security because someone left, I was interested in the job and had an aptitude for it, and it was easier/quicker for my employer to move me over and train me up than go through the hiring process!

      I had no formal tech training; everything I know has been learnt on the job and even though my employer is hugely supportive and I’ve been given lots of training, I’m still painfully aware of how much I don’t know, and how much of that is basic IT knowledge (just like Higher Ed Database Dork) which I feel like I should just know already!

    14. Zathras*

      Yup yup yup. Humanities BA, and I work in a very technical role. I just had my performance review and every year I am surprised to discover that what feels to me like flailing around blindly falling over things is perceived by my boss as me kicking ass at my job.

    15. theletter*

      yes, very similar similar situation, and I felt out of my depth, especially since, during the first year, I was often accused of not knowing how to do the job – but then that guy was fired. Turns out he didn’t know what he was doing.

      I now often meet or work with people with CS degrees who don’t know skills/tools that I’ve learned on the job.

      It’s helpful to stay fearless with new technology – a lot of stuff is new enough that people who graduated with a CS degree five years ago wouldn’t have covered it in school. A lot of stuff can be picked up with some tutorials online. I’ve found that people with humanities degrees are great at finding patterns, and great at seeing the big picture in the small details. We’re great at asking tough questions. We belong in technology – and technology needs us.

    16. AccidentalIT*

      I’m not sure if this will help you, but I have an undergraduate and a graduate degree in the humanities, and I found myself as an accidental IT professional for the field I got my graduate degree in. I *loved* it, and I was pretty good at it, even though my background was not IT. I was a very hard worker, and I guess I’m also reasonably intelligent, so I was able to figure most things out and make it work.

      But I always felt like I was holding our organization back. I never was able to let go of that. BTW my mentor, who retired and I replaced about a year after she hired me, was in the same boat, and I always sensed that she felt the same way. She was well respected though, and I have learned that I was also vwell respected.

      Anyway, I love my field and there were lots of other things I wanted to experience, and so when another position I had been eyeing came open, I took it. I had spent 5 years in IT. I was asked to assist in hiring my replacement, which I did gladly. I was disappointed that my boss did not interview a couple candidates I recommended and thought would be good because their asking price was a smidge (outside his comfort zone (but totally reasonable and worth it, he was a cheapskate), but we had a few others. ultimately IT in this org required a knowledge of IT, but a willingness to branch out and understand the particulars of the organization, which I did well. My boss ended up hiring someone who was solidly IT (I recommended very strongly hiring two candidates, the one he hired and another one in addition to this one who had more skills related to our field, and explained why…). It has not gone well. All my peers are unhappy, and I’ve heard many times that they miss me in that role.

      I don’t regret it, but I do miss it. I loved it. I love what I do now too, but I wish I had given myself more credit. A greater diversity of knowledge outside of IT actually made me better at that job than I realized.

    17. FroYoYo*

      When you do something and do it well, write it down. Review when you feel low to remind yourself you got this!

      Since you name mentions Educator, I’d also say that you should apply the growth mindset for intelligence. It’s not that some people are born good at tech and some or not. Everyone can study up to become an expert at it, including the people around you. You know more than you think, more than some, and you’ll catch up to those who know more than you.

  4. BeepBoopBeep*

    My future spouse has a job where we possibly could be moving around quite often. I have been thinking about leaving my current work environment because 1. it is stressful and toxic due to the gossipy and small nature of the company and 2. because no one takes responsibility for their own work. I have been debating searching for only remote/telecommute job openings. My experience with people working from home is that they don’t get nearly enough done, but it might just be because the people i work with are frankly, bad employees. I am worried that I am only moving from one bad situation to another. (I am a project manager/ operations director) Does anyone have remote positions with companies they like? Do they experience culture problems, or deadline issues? Are positions like this hard to get? I am also assuming remote companies to their due diligence when it comes to hiring, but someone, please, please enlighten me!!

    1. Chupalupe*

      I’m a full time remote worker and a project manager as well funnily enough! I think it helps when the entire company is fully remote (my department is 100% remote, entire company is about 80% remote) – people are held more accountable because everyone’s always focused online vs. forgetting about those out of the office. I’ve had a couple of issues with slacker coworkers, but I think no more than I’ve had at previous in-person positions. I definitely have a lot more regular “check in” meetings with colleagues (not just my boss) than other jobs which really helps keep your key contacts on the ball.

    2. Currently Job Searching*

      An important thing to consider is if you would be happy (and productive) working from home full time. Some people do very well and others feel isolated or have too many distractions.

    3. Turkletina*

      I am a remote project manager, and I love it. We don’t have deadline issues (though we’re a global team in a global company, so sometimes “Thursday” means different things to different people). I wouldn’t really say that we have culture issues, either. It can be hard to get to know people, and it takes a long time to really feel like you’re part of the team (with a full understanding of how other folks fit into the team, too), but I’m honestly not sure how to avoid that in remote work.

      I went through a pretty normal hiring process. I had interviewed (via Skype) for a different remote position that I wasn’t a great fit for. When my position became available, they reached out to me and asked if I was interested in interviewing. I went through two Skype interviews (with my direct manager, the director of our department, and another manager), did a technical assessment that took about 2 hours, and responded to some written situational questions. They asked me a lot of questions about whether I thought I could thrive in a remote position, and were very honest about the challenges of working from home. I think that any reasonable company will be consciously looking for someone who’s suited to remote work.

    4. Emmie*

      A significant portion of my coworkers and I are remote. It does not feel any different from my last position where I was mostly in office with 2 days remote. I still never met people in person who were a few floors down from my desk when I was in the office. The biggest thing, as someone else pointed out, is if you are suited for remote work yourself. It is isolating. You have to make significantly more effort to collaborate with your coworkers, so they know you are present and available for work. You must build your reputation when others won’t see your work, or see you personally. It is very difficult to turn off my work when it’s in my home. I love my job. But, some people have a glorified vision of what WFH is really like.

      1. NacSacJack*

        This – It is very difficult to turn work off. My work desk is in my basement across from my couch and TV. I’ve come to realize this week that I have been avoiding watching TV because when I’m down there I can see my computer, which I usually leave on (locked, of course). This is very annoying to me and adds to my stress.

    5. Leela*

      I’ve worked in several offices that do lots of remote (or even all under certain circumstances) employment. My impression is: individuals can totally function as well at home as they do in the office (although don’t always), but the team will never reach its maximum potential this way. There are things that just don’t get brought up naturally when everyone’s remote, and that sense of connection never builds as much as it could.

      I love having the option to work from home if there’s an appointment/something that needs to be done, especially now that many people don’t have the luxury of living that close to where they work, but I don’t prefer working that way and I don’t think it’s wise to have a fair amount of the team work this way either.

    6. Hey Anonny-Nonny*

      It really depends on what you do. For me, WFH is invaluable since I can just turn off the internet connection when I need a 2-3 hour block of time to concentrate (with advance warning, of course), and blast through the majority of my work in that time. But, I work in tech and we don’t really communicate face-to-face anyway; everyone uses chatting apps, even if you’re sitting right next to the other person…so WFH fits the office culture to a T!

    7. SJPufendork*

      Ah! This is one I can contribute on. I am actually an operations director in IT. I’ve managed various configurations of remote teams for going on 20 years. My current group is 10 people and everyone (including me) is 100% remote. we are the only 100% remote group in the large multinational who do our type of work and, based on current measurements, we are the 2nd most productive. I love it.

      The biggest challenges hiring wise is finding people who are 100% committed to working from home and understand that this means we have to be wholly cognizant of deadlines and productivity. So, I try to only hire people who have previous WFH experience and I want people who believe that they can be more productive both individual and as a team working that way. Anyone who thinks that people or groups will always get more work done in an office isn’t someone I want working for me.

      The other “soft” thing I probe for when I’m hiring is communication skills. Since we’re all remote, we all need to be prompt with emails, assertive in status reports, and willing to pick up the phone. If someone has a problem or question, they have to be willing to raise it proactively and not wait for me to ask “what is the status of the X?”

      Based on what I see, the positions are indeed out there and, at least in my experience, compensated very well. The biggest challenge I see is finding out who has them and what level they are hiring at (all of my folks have 15+ years of experience).

    8. HelenofWhat*

      I’ve had mostly or partly remote jobs at varying points in my career, and I’m moving into one where I’ll be remote with the option of working from an office not far from home. I really like escaping the commute! I can take breaks to stretch on a yoga mat by my desk or sweep the floor while I contemplate an issue. Video calls are a possibility so I still shower & dress. I’ve never had an issue with me or coworkers getting things done. Of course, I’ve had very visible assignments and would have had a tough time not doing things like updating the website or answering help tickets that others on the team could see. The more transparent the work is, the more likely people are going to hold themselves accountable. You also hope people are ambitious and excited about the work they’re doing.
      I also liked my teammates a lot, we chatted on instant messages often and advised one another and shared gifs & funny customer stories. Since you’re a project manager, I imagine your job involves a lot of conversations with others, so hopefully that minimizes isolation. When interviewing, keep an eye out for signs of dysfunction and ask lots of questions about how people communicate and what expectations are around evaluations and accountability.
      Definitely check out the recent thread about making remote work tolerable. You’ll want to think about the whole “not being required to go outside” thing.

  5. Bad Job Refugee*

    My last job was a short term job that went badly. Long story short, my boss said some racist things and I made an HR complaint. That made my boss go ballistic and tell the rest of management I was making BS complaints because I was a low performer. HR wasn’t acting on my boss being a lunatic, so I found a new job and quit on the spot.

    The problem is that my new job is a couple of blocks up the street from my old job. So I’ve run into former co-workers a few times. I’m not comfortable with telling them the entire story about what happened with my boss, so what should I do?

    1. K.*

      I would just stick to polite pleasantries and keep it moving. If they ask why you left, keep it vague. “I found a new opportunity.”

      1. Bad Job Refugee*

        Cool. That’s what I’ve been doing, if I talk to people. Sometimes I keep my head down and leave my headphones on, but other times I say something generic like “it’s too bad it didn’t work out at Acme Co, but I found a new job that I’m really happy at. Everything good with you?”

        1. K.*

          I think that’s a fine response! Doesn’t go into more detail than you want to share, and changes the subject.

        2. Doodle*

          This seems totally fine, especially if accompanied by the shrug I described below. “It’s too bad it didn’t work out” is delightfully neutral phrasing.

    2. Doodle*

      I think there are two basic strategies:

      One is to tell the truth, but a more limited version of it. “I wasn’t comfortable with the way HR handled a complaint.” or “I made an HR complaint when Bob said ‘X’ and ‘Y’…” and then trail off and let them figure out the rest.

      The other is to treat it like you would in a job interview — say almost nothing bad about the old job. “Oh, yeah, I miss y’all at Teapots, Inc. too [even if you only miss that coworker], but I’m really excited about my new job glazing for Teapots R Us.”

      Just remember that the co-workers don’t need the whole story — they probably just miss you. But if you do think that knowing that they work for an unrepentant racist is good for them, it might be valuable to give them some version of the truth.

      1. Natalie*

        I like your first suggestion. I understand not wanting to get into it, but personally I would be concerned that Boss was spreading around a lot of garbage and negatively affected my reputation. Mentioning the HR issue at least gives them a clue that there was more going on than just you supposedly being a poor performer. And it’s perfectly professional and factual.

        1. Bad Job Refugee*

          You’re right. My old boss may be trashing my reputation at the old company; that’s a legitimate concern and I worry a little bit about it.

          But I’m not that worried about it, because 1) I was there for less than half a year, so I don’t even need to put the job on my resume, and 2) it was one of those megacorps where people tend to spend their entire careers, which really cuts down on the number of people who will ever hear about it. It sucks that I’m probably informally blacklisted from working there again, but I’ll be able to have a decent career in spite of that.

          Also I think I mentioned it in another comment but he actually emailed a bunch of people to say I lied to HR about him to cover up for being bad at my job. So anyone who’s reasonable will sympathize with me, and anyone who’s not reasonable was always a lost cause anyway.

          1. Natalie*

            I mean, people do talk to folks at other companies and reputation can matter beyond just getting hired somewhere. But since he was very public with his nuttiness I think you’re probably right that pretty much everyone that witnessed it can figure out who’s the poor performer here.

            1. Bad Job Refugee*

              You’re right. But what can I do about it?

              If he really wants to covertly tell people I suck, or I make fake/vexatious HR complaints, I don’t see what I can do about it. Unless someone directly tells me “we didn’t hire you because your old boss says you make fake HR complaints.” Is that overly defeatist?

              A couple of people at that company were sympathetic, and I figure that if I absolutely needed to get some sort of reference from it, I would plead my case to them.

    3. Naptime Enthusiast*

      How much do they know from your former boss’ POV? If they don’t know anything, you could be very vague and say you couldn’t pass up this other opportunity. If they know there was drama of some kind, you could say there were some personality clashes that weren’t going to go away, so you looked for other opportunities instead.

      1. Bad Job Refugee*

        I think most people actually know.

        After I made my complaint, my boss sent an email to everyone in management saying I was trying to make excuses for being a low performer. And, he CC’d me on the email. That’s why I said he was “being a lunatic.”

        Unfortunately most of the office kept their heads down or fell in line behind him. He’s one of those people with a reputation of being a temperamental rockstar. Can be really difficult to work with, but so much knowledge that he’s never going to see any blowback for weird/bad behavior. Unless he punched someone in the office or something.

        I don’t want to bring it up again though, because I don’t want to get a reputation as a weird bitter former worker.

        1. Doodle*

          If people actually know (and reasonably should know that their boss is not. a. good. guy.) then I think my advice changes a little. You can definitely do the “excited to work at new company” bit, but it might seem like you’re overcompensating. For people you actually care about, I’d sort of shrug and tilt my head and say, “Oh, you know” or “Yeah, what ya gonna do?” and then change the subject. Kind of a “wink wink” that shows that you know the boss is badmouthing you, but you’ve moved on?

          And then you can transition to talking about the new job, or the weather, or that new flavor of scone, or whatever.

          1. Bad Job Refugee*

            So most of the people in that office were lifers. They were either with the company for 10+ years or 10-15 years older than me. A lot of people who knew about what went down adopted an attitude of “this kid needs to toughen up.”

            Honestly I don’t think it’s worth interacting with those particular guys if I run into them. They’re going to have negative feelings about me no matter what. Might as well say “I’m okay, in a rush. See ya.” if I need to say anything at all

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Not something to say out loud, but the rebuttal to “this kid needs to tough up” is “you need to expect a professional behavior in a workplace” (OR “If you wanna work in a s-hole, you have that prerogative and I will not interfere there.”)
              The toughen up thing is pretty lame, worse yet, it’s a crutch for allowing abusive behaviors to continue rather than calling people out on their behavior. These people are tending to perpetuate the problem.

              1. Bad Job Refugee*

                Yeah. I didn’t bother saying anything because I didn’t think a response would improve anything. My internal reaction was “okay, this is proof that this job can’t work out. Need to resign myself to that now to make it easy and hopefully avoid extended unemployment.”

        2. hbc*

          I don’t think you’ll get a reputation as bitter if you can say something calmly that is entirely believable. “He said some racist things, HR backed him up, and it became clear I wasn’t going to be happy there.”

          But if you’re worried, you can be more vague without it being a problem.

    4. Murphy*

      You can tell them that you don’t want to get into it and you’re trying to move on. You can say it a friendly way. “Oh, let’s not get into all that. I’m glad that’s over now!”

    5. Falling Diphthong*

      Anecdotally, whenever people suggest real zinger comebacks in the comments here, they strike everyone else as bad ideas that convey the opposite of the “I’m beyond this” intended.

      I would channel old Miss Manners’s advice to the person who did not initiate the divorce–conveying that you are quietly pleased at the way things turned out is going to beat any in depth explanation of why the other party stinks, any zinger, etc. “Boss and I just weren’t going to see eye to eye” if it comes up.

      1. Bad Job Refugee*

        Yeah, I keep up with a guy who left another old job. While he’s smart, happy, and had legit grievances with the place we worked together, he just sounds so transparently bitter whenever we talk about that company.

        that’s why I want to keep it brief and pleasant. I’m glad that “I’m OK, found a new job I like, I hope you’re OK too” is generally seen as acceptable.

      2. Lissa*

        The thing with the zingers is that in my experience, they rarely have the intended effect. The audience is usually confused, uncomfortable or annoyed depending on the situation. It’s a nice fantasy but wouldn’t be all that satisfying in practise most of the time.

    6. Bagpuss*

      I don’t think you need to tell them anything. If anyone specifically asks, then I think something like “I raised concerns with HR about some unacceptable behaviour, and chose to leave as a result of the response” – and then firmly changing the subject, would be fine.

      I also think you would be OK to say “Why do you ask?” – if it seems they are just gossiping or trying to make conversation, you can just say, “It was an unpleasant situation and I’d rather not discuss it”, if there is another reason, for instance they are themselves being bullied or suffering retaliation then you might at that point decide to tell them a little more – it’s possible that someone might ask because they were in a similar situation and wanted advice

    7. KR*

      Maybe something like, “Oh it’s a long story but my current job is going great! I have to go finish a TPS report/head home/get to a meeting.”

  6. Anonymous Lady*

    Lately, I’ve found myself wondering where the line is between coincidence and systemic discrimination. I’m a woman in a male-dominated field, and I don’t like to play the gender card because I realize that women have it better now than ever before. When I was younger and more naive, I actually believed that gender discrimination was mostly a thing of the past, but I’ve increasingly come to notice the subtle ways it’s still a widespread issue.

    I’ve been in my job for five years, and in that time there have been 12 managers in my department (including my boss and grand-boss). Only one was a woman, and she was demoted to a non-management position four years ago — not for performance reasons but because of a company-wide downsizing. She was replaced by a man from another department whose position had been eliminated. Ok, so it’s a male-dominated field, and I’m sure there are more male candidates than female, but 11 consecutive male managers seems like more than a coincidence.

    My company talks the talk about diversity and equal opportunity, and I’m fairly sure that nobody is consciously deciding to discriminate against women, but I strongly suspect that they are subconsciously biased. When a manager is hired, there is a strict hiring process that is intended to be fair to all candidates. The hiring process, however, takes several months, so an interim manager (chosen at the whim of the hiring manager) is appointed in the meantime. By the time the hiring decision is made, the interim manager has a leg up on everyone else because he now has several months of management experience. Unless he has done a horrible job, it would be foolish of the hiring manager to choose anyone else for the position. In the last five years, 100% of the appointed interim managers have been male and 100% of them have been selected for the permanent position.

    This has been bothering me more lately because I have started to try to move into management, and I feel as though I am not getting a fair shake. Three times in the past year, one of my peers, Joe, was offered the opportunity to become interim manager, and he declined it all three times. Coincidentally (or not), our grand-boss is good friends with Joe and wants to help him follow in his footsteps. Although I’ve expressed interest in a management position (I applied for the permanent position the last two times there was an opening), I haven’t been offered the interim position. I have twice as much experience as Joe and better performance in every measurable way, but he is considered to have better “soft skills” than I do (for example, he is often praised for showing leadership by pushing back on management decisions, but wouldn’t you know, when I do that I’m just an abrasive shrew).

    I certainly can’t prove that I’m not getting the same chances as men just because I’m a woman, and I’m sure management has what they believe are good reasons for their selections every time they appoint a man as an interim manager, but I am really starting to think that when it’s time for them to select an interim manager, it doesn’t even occur to them to choose a woman because women don’t fit their mental image of a manager. But if I even raise the issue of gender discrimination, everyone is going to say that I’m trying to get an unfair advantage by playing the gender card!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Well, if there is systemic discrimination (subconscious or not) against women in a male-dominated work environment, that would be quite typical and definitely not the exception to the rule. In fact, your workplace would have to go out of its way to fight society’s scripts.

      But if I even raise the issue of gender discrimination, everyone is going to say that I’m trying to get an unfair advantage by playing the gender card!

      This itself is already systemic discrimination. Men can feel that their gripes are legitimate, because they’re individuals, but you have to feel your gripes are not legitimate because of your gender. Do you have any male co-workers who are woke-ish, who can help you identify and work on problems? Perhaps that would take some of the emotional labor off of you and also get rid of this idea that fighting sexism is only looking out for your self-interest.

      1. Anonymous Lady*

        I don’t think any of the men would really support me on this, because it’s not overt discrimination, and they probably have the same view that I did before I was really in the middle of it — that women get the same opportunities as men nowadays. I have heard men making comments about women who have been promoted, like, “She got the job because she has big boobs,” or “She fills a quota.” It is also true that many of the women here expect and get some special treatment, like getting men to do tasks they don’t want to do, and some of the men are already bitter about that (“She can just bat her eyelashes at the IT guy and he’ll print the TPS cover sheet for her.”). Incidentally, I am unattractive, so I do not get any advantage by batting my eyelashes at men or wearing a low-cut shirt.

        1. WellRed*

          If you work in a place where a. men make such comments, b. women do take certain advantages (not clear if that’s the case or its the men complaining unfairly again) and c. it has you making comments about batting your eyelashes, then you work in a place that is messed up and probably does have more overt discrimination then you realize. I mean, you know these throwback back comments about boobs aren’t a thing at most decent companies, right?

        2. Anonymous Educator*

          If men say these sorts of things at your workplace, that isn’t subconcious discrimination, that’s quite overt gender discrimination and borderline sexual harassment (particular the 1st and 3rd remarks):

          “She got the job because she has big boobs”
          “She fills a quota”
          “She can just bat her eyelashes at the IT guy and he’ll print the TPS cover sheet for her”

          I would say if you don’t want to take any immediate action because of fear or retaliation (which is illegal, but it’s a real thing that happens), at the very least document everything big or small that bothers you, with exact dates/times, locations, and who said what and what people’s reactions were. You may never use that for anything, but if you need it, you’ll have it. And it may even be just for your own sanity that you aren’t imagining things.

          1. Anonymous Lady*

            Well, the people who have said these things are non-management employees. I have never heard anyone in management (i.e., anyone with any hiring authority) make this type of comment. The comment about big boobs has been said about one specific female manager who, quite frankly, I don’t think was qualified for the job. However, a man with a similar lack of qualifications was hired for a similar position a short time later, and nobody suggested it had anything to do with his looks!

            1. Anonymous Educator*

              But whether they’re in management or not, their comments contribute to the work environment and culture.

            2. Science!*

              Even though the comments are coming from non-management employees doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. A lot of a company’s culture comes from the top, I bet they’ve heard that before because they seem pretty comfortable saying those things. At the very least they have (pretty) good reason to believe that saying “she fills a quota” won’t get them in trouble.

            4. Natalie*

              I’m not sure if you’ve heard the phrase “hostile work environment” before – it gets used incorrectly a lot, but you’re describing an actual one. It is a category of unlawful discrimination. It does not have to come from management, but management has a responsibility (legally and morally) to put a stop to it.

            5. KTM*

              Yikes. If ANYONE said that at our company there would be major repercussions and likely a firing. I feel like from some of your comments you may have been normalized to a lot of things that are Not. Okay. due to your particular workplace experience.

            6. neverjaunty*

              Anonymous, it’s heartbreaking, isn’t it? To think it’s 2018, and you know you can do the work, and you have a mentor who’s sort of helping you, and wanting to find reasons you’re being passed over when Joe gets a free hand up and the dudes are making sexist comments and…

              It’s tempting to wish that maybe your workplace is different and you’re overreacting, because if that’s true, you can maybe control the outcome and you still have a shot. I’m sorry to say that it isn’t and you can’t, not at this place.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Keeping a log book at home is a great idea. Write down a few of the things that happen each day. Trust your gut to pick the correct things to write about. Over a period of weeks you should notice patterns as you review your log book.

            I did this with a toxic boss. The first thing that happened was she dialed back on her behaviors, I guess she could “smell” the log book or something? The next thing that happened was I started seeing patterns in her chaos. She was fond of saying, “I never said that.” So I decided to repeat back instructions to her the moment she gave them. Later when she told me she never said to do x, I would say, “This is why I repeated it back to you and you said, “Yes, do x.”

            I went through numerous other problems in a similar manner. It won’t take long for the patterns of behaviors to jump out at you. I would build a plan to deal with that particular behavior. You may decide it’s not a fight worth fighting or you may decide to do something about it.

            1. Natalie*

              With this kind of group, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out “flirting with IT” is actually just being normal level polite or possibly even churlish but in possession of breasts.

              1. Zathras*

                Or standing there while the IT guy flirts inappropriately with you, because putting up with it is the only way to get what you need.

        3. Temperance*

          That’s straight up overt sexism. The default at your workplace is that men are qualified, and that women flash their boobs to get what they want. Women at your shitty org are just “quota fillers” or undeserving.

          I might be tempted to point out that, sure, Jane flirts with Bob in IT to do tasks, but John the Manager keeps giving Joe opportunities because they’re golfing buddies or whatever. See how they respond.

        4. She Persisted*

          @Anonymous Lady, if the quotes you list here from your male co-workers are accurate, you could very well be in a “hostile work environment”. I’ve linked to the EEOC page on this in my username. Here’s the info from their website (I’ve bolded what I feel applies to your situation):

          “Offensive conduct may include, but is not limited to, offensive jokes, slurs, epithets or name calling, physical assaults or threats, intimidation,ridicule or mockery, insults or put-downs, offensive objects or pictures, and interference with work performance. Harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:

          The harasser can be the victim’s supervisor, a supervisor in another area, an agent of the employer, a co-worker, or a non-employee.
          The victim does not have to be the person harassed, but can be anyone affected by the offensive conduct.
          Unlawful harassment may occur without economic injury to, or discharge of, the victim.          ”

          I strongly encourage you to start documenting these “comments” privately. Record dates, times, names and a description of the incident. Then spend some time reviewing both the legal definition of hostile work environment and your company’s written policies regarding sexual harassment in the workplace. If you choose to lodge a complaint, you will need to follow all of the companies reporting procedures (even if they refuse to) whether you choose to keep your complaint within the company or file a public complaint with your city/state civil rights office.

          Your promotion situation is at best questionable and, at worst, heinous. However, you will have a very hard time proving discrimination without more direct evidence like an email outlining why you were not selected for a promotion or someone on the hiring committee making an overtly sexist comment within earshot of several witnesses. In my opinion, you won’t get very far with this complaint as presented so far (even though I completely agree with you that this is discrimination, intentional or not) and risk damaging your reputation with the company.

          I’m sorry you’ve found yourself in this situation. I wish you luck on getting the promotion you deserve.

    2. Temperance*

      Have you had a chat with your boss about your interest in one of the interim management positions, and asked what you can do to get one? I might then slide in there that Joe is getting a lot of opportunities that you would also like.

      1. LKW*

        This – women are coached to believe that hard work is all that it takes for a merit based promotion. Men are coached to tell management what they want. So if men are in leadership positions and they are following the established pattern that people who want to move up ask to move up, then by not asking then they have no idea that you want it. A good mentor/manager will ask people – “What do you want” or they’ll say “I think you can do this.” but again, if these guys haven’t seen this behavior, then it might not occur to them to follow a different way of managing.

        2. ket*

          While I agree, the poster says she’s applied twice for these management positions. It is striking that Joe is chased down even though he’s stated out loud that he is unwilling, and the poster will get a line like, “You never said you were interested! I thought those two written applications for the position were just…. … … you fake-saying you were interested…?”

    3. LCL*

      Looking at it from outside, it seems your company is using the interim manager positions to game the hiring process and hire who they want. Hopefully someone with experience on how to deal with this institutionally will post with real advice. My only suggestion is to stop worrying about what other people say about playing the gender card. When you raise the issue about discrimination, raise it in a way that has a better chance of success. That way is what the other posters will provide, I hope.

    4. Lynca*

      When you say you have expressed interest, have you directly discussed moving into management as a goal with your boss? In my job that’s a discussion we do have with our supervisors. And that discussion boils down to what do you need to do in order to be considered? I might even ask why I wasn’t considered and talk proactively about professional development to help me be considered in the future.

      Also the big problem I run into is mentorship. My bosses don’t tend to mentor the female staff, only the male staff. There are also few opportunities in my field for mentorship for women or at my current job.

      1. Anonymous Lady*

        Yes, I have discussed moving into management specifically as a professional development goal. My manager has given me advice/things to do (he had me take a management aptitude test, gave me a book to read, had me meet with a career development specialist in HR, made me the lead on a project so I can develop leadership skills), but none of it has given me any more opportunities. Also, Joe did not do any of this before he was offered the interim manager position (although he has taken the management aptitude test since then).

        2. LKW*

          Yeah – I made a comment before I saw this so yeah -it’s time to move on. You are working with a bunch of bigots.

        3. As Close As Breakfast*

          It sounds like 2 problems at this point. 1) Your grand-boss’s relationship with Joe is (almost assuredly) resulting in Joe getting opportunities (that he may or may not deserve, I mean really, even if he deserves it, why do they keep offering him the position after he’s turned it down several times?) 2) After Joe has turned it down, then the (not so) overt sexism is coming into play when they are offering the position to the next choice. The ‘Joe’ part of this definitely sounds like a combo friend-potism and underlying sexism.

        4. StrikingFalcon*

          Would your boss be willing to be the person to put your name in front of the higher ups and push for why you are qualified? I read an excellent article recently (Why Men Still Get More Promotions Than Women, by the Havard Business Review) that showed that it’s not that women lack mentors, it’s that they lack sponsors – people willing to put their name in front of the decision makers. Joe obviously has one. Link in the name.

    5. Buffy*

      I believe there absolutely is! In fact, I’m taking a graduate course now on Women and Leadership and it is CHOCK FULL of research that demonstrates the impacts you’re speaking of. (Did you know that women make up 50% of middle managers but only 3% of the positions higher?)

    6. Tuxedo Cat*

      I’ve faced this to some extent, except I didn’t bother raising the issue. I had already raised an issue (with some colleagues) regarding race and that was met horribly. We used the kind of language people suggest in this blog, and it was met really badly. This was higher ed, in an office that allegedly was for equitable education.

      I think some of other folks here will probably have good advice on scripts you can use if you want to raise the issue. My personal suggestion would be that if you are interested in management and moving up, is that you find a job at another company and one that supports women. Even in male-dominated fields, those companies can exist.

    7. neverjaunty*

      It is not “playing the gender card” to wonder if you are experiencing sexism, open or otherwise. (The greatest trick an unfair society ever played was teaching us to gaslight ourselves.)

      I am not aware of any male-dominated profession that is free of bias, let alone unconscious bias. Don’t doubt yourself; let yourself see what’s right in front of you. These dudes may intellectually think women are capable, and they’ll blab about “diversity” to their last breath, but they’ll always find some “logical” reason to justify their own bias.

    8. The New Wanderer*

      It sounds like you work for my former company. Huge international company paying lip service to diversity and yet staffed to an extreme degree with white males at all levels of management. The telling thing is how it makes the news when they promote a woman or minority to a leadership role. The other telling thing is how layoffs seem to affect women/minorities more than white males (not just the one I was involved with, but my own group’s diversity percentage went way down after mine). I had 13 first level managers and 5 second level managers during my decade-long stint – only one was a minority, zero were female.

      So, yeah. It continues to be an uphill battle until the percentage near the top starts moving toward 50% male/female and much more representative for minorities.

    9. Kj*

      Might you do better by looking for a management position outside your company? Frankly, your company/department seems to suck at equality. Thus, I’d suggest you update your resume and start looking for other opportunities at other companies. I might also be sure you are involved in your professional society and try to get some leadership roles there. I also might seek out a mentor who is in a leadership role in your field.

      You shouldn’t HAVE to do any of this. But from experience, sometimes leaving is the only way to get the pay and promotion you deserve. I sadly have found if you suggest that sexism is at the root of something people do, they get defensive and that won’t help you at work. I think you need to leave.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        And even it’s not sexism (it is sexism), if people have you slotted as “not management material,” you definitely have to go somewhere else for the promotion.

        1. Anonymous Lady*

          Yes, that is part of my dilemma. It seems that I have been labeled as “not management material,” but I don’t know if that’s because I’m legitimately not management material or if there’s a discriminatory aspect to it. Maybe if there were a woman here who had more management potential, she would get the opportunities. There are a couple of men in my department who apply for every promotion and never get an opportunity, either, and from my perspective, it’s for obvious reasons — they are poor performers with bad attitudes (they will only do the bare minimum they can get away with) — but they are always surprised and think it’s unfair when they don’t get promoted. I would look pretty stupid if I made accusations about discrimination when everybody else thinks there’s a legitimate reason I’m not getting promoted. I don’t think that’s the case, because I know I’m regarded as a top performer, and management has no problem giving me more responsibility in my current role, and I scored pretty well on the management aptitude test, but I can’t really be sure that there’s not a legitimate thing holding me back.

          1. Lily Rowan*

            In this case? It’s definitely discriminatory! But you don’t have to make accusations and you can still look for a job elsewhere, no? When you get a better job somewhere else, that will be the proof for you.

          2. RainyKeyboard*

            Personally, I would talk to your manager about the specific, most recent role and push him on why you were not put in as interim. Then I would continue to press for specifics about what it’s going to take to get you there and every time you see another person chosen, ask why you were not considered. Finally, I would candidly ask him if he thinks there is a path for women into management in this organization? Cite statistics (ex: 50% of jr level employees are women, but 95% of the executive team are men). Express your concern about the process from opening – to interim – to promotion could be a barrier for women. And…see what he says. Essentially you are asking him to examine what he has always considered the status quo and to articulate where/if you are falling short in your work. This isn’t a one and done conversation.

            The reality is that there likely is sexism going on, and unfortunately as a female leader, I have experienced some degree of this in every organization I have ever worked for. In my experience, pushing on specifics helps. What also helps is seeking advice/advocacy from other female leaders, especially if they have been lucky enough to break into the top.

          3. As Close As Breakfast*

            I get what you’re laying down. It’s like pre-imposter syndrome! But it truly sounds like you at least have potential for management potential! And here is why I think so:
            1. You’re actually wondering if you do. This is a level of self awareness that many people lack.
            2. When you expressed your interest to your boss, he didn’t shut you down. True, his advice and actions haven’t gotten you anywhere, but it doesn’t sound like he tried to dissuade you. Doesn’t sound like the HR specialist shut you down either.
            3. You have been given more responsibility, including project leadership experience. If that project went well (or even just ok) that’s a good sign.
            The only way you’ll ever really know is to get the opportunity to do it, right? And it seriously sounds like you will need to look elsewhere for that opportunity. Try to remember, that if you get a management job offer, at the very least it means that they think you have management potential!

    10. Lora*

      “Only one was a woman, and she was demoted to a non-management position four years ago — not for performance reasons but because of a company-wide downsizing. She was replaced by a man from another department whose position had been eliminated.”
      “In the last five years, 100% of the appointed interim managers have been male and 100% of them have been selected for the permanent position.”
      “I have twice as much experience as Joe and better performance in every measurable way, but he is considered to have better “soft skills” than I do (for example, he is often praised for showing leadership by pushing back on management decisions, but wouldn’t you know, when I do that I’m just an abrasive shrew).”

      Your company is indeed biased. Whether they intend to be biased or not is irrelevant, the fact is they are acting in ways which result in biased outcomes. It sounds from your other comments that you are not going to get ahead at the company; your manager may be giving you well-meaning, reasonable advice, but if you do the things that are supposed to put you in line for a management position and then none of those things actually yield a management position and Unqualified McN00b gets the job without doing any of that, then yeah, your manager is essentially blowing you off.

      You’ll probably have better luck being hired into a management role at another company. And I guarantee the folks at your current company will be surprised when that happens.

      First job out of grad school was at a huge company you’ve heard of. I had the most technical projects of anyone in the department, and then was told I was somehow not technical enough. After one of my very successful projects which was supposed to be a rockstar project got killed by senior management, they offered a male colleague a project with a promise that this would make him a rockstar. He said he wouldn’t take it because 1) he was overloaded already and 2) he frankly didn’t believe them about the rockstar thing. They were aghast and said “but but but this is a very hot field right now with–” and he replied, I saw what you did to Lora’s project and that was bullsh!t, no way. Of course, “oh but it would be different FOR YOU!” Really? Why would it be different for a man?!? Hmmmm?

      My next job was in a management role. My direct manager was not surprised but senior management was. Why, I don’t even have an MBA! What is this sorcery?!?

    11. Bacon pancakes*

      Ugh. That is super frustrating! I am also a woman in a male-dominated profession. Until recently, I was the only full-time, permanent female on staff in an office of 10. Recently another woman joined full-time, perm… the secretary. Who was employed for almost 20 years as a seasonal clerk, then as part-time only. I have sat in my office and listened to people voice their displeasure about me being hired (my job requires a BS. You don’t have one so stop saying you should have my job) and that I am not qualified (I also have a MS and six years of field experience. I am qualified). Our customer base regularly acts surprised when I answer the phone as the Head Llama Wrangler and I have had more than one ask to speak to “one of the guys” or “when (guy) gets in from the field tell him to give me a call”. It is frustrating.

    12. A tester, not a developer*

      I wrote a long and detailed reply, but then IE ate it, so here’s the short version…

      My company has put in a mentoring program specifically to link up women and/or minorities with our (white, male) senior leadership. There’s been recognition that a lot of promotion in our organization comes from one senior person telling another about ‘how great a guy Joe is’. Sadly, a lot of them seem to think that if they mentor a man, everyone knows it’s professional, but if they speak positively about a woman, it must be because they have pantsfeelings for them. Eww…

      Maybe if you approached it as looking to create a more formal mentorship program, that would help you and other women get a toehold in the interim manager/ ‘I know a guy…’ network?

    14. Thlayli*

      It seems like there is a mix of reasons why there are more men in management positions. Some are not discriminatory (male – dominated field means there are simply more men) and some are discriminatory (man being applauded for good leadership when woman doing same thing is accused of being an abrasive shrew). If you want to address this you need to make sure you steer clear of blanket accusations that can be explained away by non-discriminatory reasons and focus on the discriminatory ones. For example don’t say “my last 12 bosses have been men” because that doesn’t prove anything and can potentially be explained by a combination of the high male/female ratio and random probability. Also in my experience and in general women are more likely to choose to let their career take a back seat when their kids are young. For example taking long maternity leaves or career breaks, working shorter hours etc.this is of course a valid lifestyle choice (I myself took 2.5 years off when I had my kids) but it absolutely impacts your career and contributes to the lower number of women in management positions.

      If you decide to raise it in a general manner, rather than specific to you yourself you can frame it something like “20% of our llama groomers are female. But only 5% of llama grooming managers are female. I am concerned that this may be a symptom of unconscious bias among the selection committees.”

      But you can definitely address the specifics that relate to you personally. For example “I’ve noticed that there is a tendency for people to applaud male colleagues for pushing back on management decisions, however when female colleagues including myself have pushed back on a management decision We have been criticised for it (examples).”

      Also, I don’t know if someone actually called you an abrasive shrew either to your face or behind your back, or if you were you exaggerating, but if that was actually said then I think you should absolutely raise that with HR. That is an unacceptable thing to say about a colleague and is a sexist insult.

      I haven’t read the other responses since I’m low on time today so apologies for any duplication.

      1. Anonymous Lady*

        No, nobody has actually called me an abrasive shrew (not that I’ve heard, anyway), but I do pick up on that attitude when I question something — as though any response I get is just to appease me, as opposed to a response to Joe where they actually address his concern. And although I make sure to be respectful when questioning something, I have had comments on my performance review saying that I have been disrespectful towards management, although they cannot give me any specific examples.

        1. Lora*

          “I have had comments on my performance review saying that I have been disrespectful towards management, although they cannot give me any specific examples.”

          YES. They should be able to give examples, and the examples should be pretty clear cut.

          Have gotten quite a bit of hand-waving “oh you have sharp elbows” at jobs where I was being perfectly professional but requesting data to support a given conclusion rather than some rando’s feelings about it. Also have gotten attitude about treating a manager higher in rank *as an equal*: literally, I said, “in my experience, when I did this at MegaCorporation it’s actually been XYZ, can you explain how you got ABC?”

          You aren’t going to win at this company. Look elsewhere, you’ve been in Piggyland long enough.

        2. GG Two shoes*

          I know you said that they say he has better, “soft skills than you” have you ever asked them to clarify that? I would be interested to hear the answer to, “I would like to move into management and I know that you said before you thought Joe has soft skills I don’t have. I would love some suggestions on how to improve on this. It important for my career that I can grow and I feel like I don’t have that opportunity right now.” Then, depending on the answer, you could see pretty clearly if it’s legitimate (some folks- of both genders- do need to work on soft skills) or if it’s a gendered response. If it’s gendered, you could do the “play dumb” role- as in make him explain, in detail, how your soft skills aren’t as good as Joe’s. It could clearly be a bias that he doesn’t realize he has until he is there explaining it to you in real time.

          I’ve seen this work when someone says, “oh I thought you would want to do that” i.e. help clean up, take notes,etc. Then you say, “oh, why is that?” They probably won’t say, “because you are a woman” they will try to think of a different reason and when they come up blank it makes them realized they were showing gender bias.

        3. designbot*

          One thing to remember about general broad-based comments about attitude and soft skills is that they can be true and still be gendered. For example I got called ‘prickly’ in a performance review, and I felt like I could see where that was coming from, it felt like a criticism I should own. However as weeks and months went by, I realized that yes I am a bit prickly, but so are plenty of other people (men) who manage to succeed just fine here. I think it’s fine to address this in some ways, like say “it was my impression that management usually values feedback, but somehow my feedback is being taken in a different way than say Joe’s. His seems appreciated and acted upon, but mine is dismissed and now I’m hearing that you value me less because of it. Can you help me understand the reason for this different reaction?”

          1. ket*

            The difficulty with some of the responses here (on getting more feedback on what needs to be changed in the poster before she’ll be “management material”) is that because she’s the one asking, there will always be something new that needs to be changed. There’s a lot of research that shows that people change the criteria for a job based on the demographics of who applies. You can look up “constructed criteria” to find some studies on this. The writer needs to change companies, or she needs to push so hard they can’t deny her. The soft approach of, “what can I work on?” will lead higher-ups to every-more-convoluted post hoc justification of why she’s not management material, and the only way to cut through that will be to document, document, document everything including criteria for promotion for others and then threaten a lawsuit. I’ll post links to some studies in my next comment.

            2. designbot*

              That’s why I wouldn’t recommend ‘what can I work on?’ We can ALL work on something. The key to me is understanding why the things they tell her to work on are holding her back, when they haven’t held back others.

            3. Oilpress*

              I agree, and I vote for changing companies. If she concludes that she is being discriminated against then it’s time to leave. Why stick around for more punishment?

    15. Mbarr*

      It’s called the Glass Elevator effect – men get pushed to be promoted even if they don’t want to be. :(

      I myself am very conscious when I notice a lack of female leaders in my organization. In my previous job, nearly every leader in my department was female, and they were kickass. I miss my old team…

    16. only acting normal*

      Yeah. You’re not playing the gender card THEY are.

      I was once young and naive and thought we were pretty much there with equality. It took a few jarring experiences to disabuse me of that, but I am thoroughly disabused. True things aren’t as bad as they were – I’ve never worked anywhere that someone would openly put hands on me sexually for example. But I’ve seen soooo many mediocre men succeed over stellar women it’s horrifying. I’ve worked in a professional office with nudey posters on the wall. I’ve been subject to jokes blue enough to *literally* make a sailor blush. I’ve had two much older male colleagues compare me unfavourably to the stripper they saw at an exspensed night out. I’ve been called “my little girl” by a boss. I was held back from promotion for 3 years by toxic grandboss, while he openly credited my work to a male subordinate, then promoted a barely competent male colleague in my stead (more than one person came and shared their horror with me at that one). I’ve watched junior men get the plum technical programming jobs while I was pushed toward project management (which I loathe doing with the passion of a thousand suns). I’ve inherited the same programming work years later and boggled at how rubbish their work was. I’ve seen a man put in charge of the equality drive at work who has some *serious* issues with gaslighting and scapegoating an older female colleague for his failings. I could go on, but this is depressing me!

      You are not imagining it. The only thing to decide is where you go from here.

    17. Jules the Third*

      ‘Abrasive shrew’ is kinda a text book example of sexist appraisal. If those words were used in a review of your work, that is a huge red flag indicating sexism. If that was written anywhere, or part of your official review, then that means the reviewer wasn’t afraid of the sexist language being noticed or censured by their bosses.

      The whole letter does indicate you’re facing sexism. Not the ’11 male managers’ but the words being used about women in the company. The manager part is *probably* part of it, but without the words backing up the *reason* for why you’re not being considered, it’s hard to get proof of the sexism.

      In most fields, there are some companies who ‘get it’ and would be happy to hire you and work with you towards a mgmt role.

  7. minhag*

    I’ve been job searching for the past six months and have gotten some pretty tough rejections. Friends are being supportive but I’m getting rote responses that don’t really help. Sometimes, they say self-esteem boosters, like “You’re great! You’re smart and capable and don’t let this get you down” or, it’s an appeal to fate, like “This just means that job wasn’t right for you. You will definitely get another offer soon.” That doesn’t help because there is definitely a non-zero chance that I will not get an offer, sooner or later.

    Does anyone here have a unique or unusual approach to getting rejections? Anything that makes them laugh or cheer after a rejection?

    1. Kay*

      I am in academia, where it’s not uncommon to apply for every single open job in a hiring year and never hear back from most of them, so it got to a point where even receiving a rejection at all felt like a perverse victory! I ended up creating a Rejection Bingo card with a big reward for myself if I got bingo. It had a lot of the tropes (“strong applicant pool”, “proceeding with another candidate”) and some weird, academic-specific ones thrown in, but making it into an activity helped me let go of the specifics of the rejection and see it as just part of the process.

      2. Sydney Bristow*

        When applying at a gazillion firms as the end of law school was approaching, I also made it a game. My friend group was going out to dinner celebrating every time someone landed a job so I made them go to dinner with me when I reached a certain number of rejections. (I was trying to move across the country and get a job so my search was a bit different than theirs).

    2. Trillion*

      I cry then drink. Then get angry for a little bit. Then hit the job boards.
      I don’t have a healthy way of dealing with things.

      2. Fortitude Jones*

        Ha! Are you me? I do the same thing (and add chocolate – I eat lots and lots of chocolate).

    3. ginkgo*

      I’ve only been job hunting for a month or so, but I’m also finding that pep talks aren’t that helpful for exactly the reason you state. I know I’m smart and capable and DESERVE a great job in my field of choice, but I may not get one, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with me. It helps me more to know that I will be okay even if things don’t work out the way I want. (In my case this is true – I have savings, I have some opportunities for work that won’t get me where I want to be in life/career but will keep food on the table, I have survived far worse.)

      I don’t have a specific response to rejections that’s helpful, but I’ll be watching this thread in case others do!

    4. Buffy*

      Sorry to hear about the rejections. I went through many years of stinging ones but have thankfully landed a job I really love. I came across the quote, “You’re never a loser until you stop trying” that really resonated with me.

    5. Tuxedo Cat*

      I’m in the same boat you are.

      I do something like take a nap or go for a walk. I’m getting more numb to this, at this point, because it’s happened so often.

    6. Ms. Meow*

      Since rejections are usually form letters, I just imagine a robot is rejecting me. “I guess I couldn’t please the robot overlords” makes me chuckle and feel a little better.

    7. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I just try to believe that everything does happen for a reason, and not getting a job does mean it wasn’t the right one for me at this time in my life. It’s hard when it’s a job that seems perfect and I really, really want it, but I go back to what Alison always says – there is no dream job, and every job I’ve had that looked amazing from the outside ended up being bad in at least one way. Maybe try to remember all the ways in which that job probably sucks?

    8. nonymous*

      Maybe focus less on the rejections (easy for me to say!) by creating a pleasant ritual around the application part, so that it doesn’t feel like time wasted if you get a rejection. When I had a crappy job that made me feel like a loser, I would drive in a little bit earlier to visit the library around the corner.

      I mean ideally you’ll get a job, eventually, but in the meantime application/interview time == premium chocolate snack or a trip to the lys or checking out a new hiking trail. My husband and I do this thing where if one of us is putting in long hours at work (and job-hunting totally qualifies!) the other one uses the same amount of time to do chores around the house. So if one person spends 2hrs working on applications, the other half will vacuum or mow the lawn or fix that squeaky door. Job hunting with no reward is pretty unpleasant, so it’s a nice trade off to get a pass on some other unpleasant life duty.

      1. Ten*

        That’s a great arrangement! I imagine it would also be really good for your marriage too, teaming up to support each other like that. =)

    9. Jennifleurs*

      I 100% sympathise. I went to 12 interviews last year and 2 so far this year and no success with anything. I understand people are trying to be encouraging, but often they are come across as cluelessly relentlessly positive, which is draining to deal with.

      I tend to get upset, spend a day fighting the impulse to quit my current job on the spot, and angrily spam applications for new vacancies. Often this does actually lead to more interviews! But then I don’t get them. *sigh* I am working on my interview technique but it’s really difficult – I have that strand of perfectionism where if you know you can’t do it right first time you get anxious about doing it at all.

    10. k*

      I saw an artist who did an art show of all of her art application rejection letters.

      It was exhibited at the gallery I was on the board of, and it made me feel a lot better about my own :). And also made me be like, I don’t have enough of these, I should be trying for more opportunities (and I’m sure you are already applying for tons of things, that was a personal reflection I had, not advice for you).

      I was also really glad I did co-op in my undergrad because you just had to write so many applications that you didn’t have time to worry about ones you were rejected from because you were onto the next 10 applications.

    11. Triple Anon*

      Ugh. Those cheerful rejections are the worst. They sound so condescending. Just say, “You were not selected,” and get it over with.

  8. Onnnnn*

    Removed — I’m sorry, I tried to leave it up with a note that this wasn’t the place for this discussion, but people kept leaving responses anyway so I’m removing the temptation. (For people who didn’t see it, the issues was politics and guns.)

  9. Nervous Accountant*

    Re the slacker coworker.

    1. I gave her a return and gave her a phone call (clients schedule appts so we either take htem or distribute them). I found out she passed a return along to someone else, just so that she wouldn’t have to take the call. I asked her why she did that. She wouldn’t admit it st first but when I showed her it shows a history, she said she didn’t know she was supposed to take calls. I had made a very clear note that the call was to go over tax information/tax return that SHE WAS WORKING ON. I told my manager, he didnt’ buy that excuse, and we emailed her a warning. She again said she didnt’ know she was supposed to take phone calls.

    2. A client had a Q about his taxes. She asked me the question, I answered. She still didn’t get it, I told her I’m going out to lunch and lets see wheN I get back. My expectation was that she would google or figure it out somehow. 4hours later, she asks again. it literally took 30 seconds to find the answer to her question—there was no reason the client had to wait 5 hours for a response.

    3. I gave her a payroll and we just integrated to a new system. I told her that one of the supervisors in charge of this whole project can help her. He said “I went over this in training”…..she was there. for all of them. I was not (vacation then bereavement). I told her she should have known this bc she was IN THE TRAINING. She laughed it off.

    After a year, my manager finally agrees wiht me that she’s trying to weasel out of work on purpose. We have another person on our team who seems to be doing this (maybe I’ll post more about her later). I’ve documented tf out of this person but I have no power or standing to fire her.

    1. Bea*

      She’s lazy AF but I’m also concerned she’s in a position she can’t handle if she’s defaulting to not trying to figure things out and letting things sit for others to deal with.

      I’ve seen so many people screw up in accounting because they’re out of their element it’s unsettling.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I’d say she’s fairly good at accounting. She has her CPA but she has 0 social skills, and based on that appointment switch, lacking in integrity as well. Idk if there’s any accounting jobs for people who hate communicating w others…for us here that’s a huge part of th job.

        1. Natalie*

          Oh, in my experience it’s a popular (and not totally inaccurate) stereotype that accountants hate communicating with others. My professors will literally always make comments on it when they assigned us to group projects.

          Here’s a joke I heard from a recruiter I work with:
          “An introverted accountant looks at her own shoes when talking to you. An extroverted accountant looks at your shoes.”

          1. Bean counter soup*

            An optimist thinks the glass is half full. A pessimist half empty.

            An accountant thinks it’s too big.

          2. Nervous Accountant*

            Haha. I’ve heard those too but honestly no one in my office is like that. Majority of us are gregarious. We deal w clients all the time. Our work events are never boring. Can’t say anyone here lives up to the boring stereotype.

            1. Natalie*

              It hasn’t really been my personal experience either, at least as far as interacting with other accountants goes, but it does seem to be more common with clients and/or colleagues in other departments (if you’re in house).

        2. Bea*

          If I had a dollar for every licensed professional who does bang up well for exams but sucks at doing their jobs in the real world, what a rich woman I would be. Licensed professionals can still be bad at huge portions of their occupations.

          Lots of bad doctors fall into this gap but people don’t question their abilities because they graduated and have their medical licenses.

          1. MissCPA*

            agreed. We have had a few licensed CPAs in my small office who did well in school, got licensed with no problem, but just don’t perform well. It sucks because they interview so well but they don’t deliver in the office!

          2. Wordy Nerd*

            It’s like the old joke: What do you call the person who graduated last in their class at medical school? Doctor.

            1. Nervous Accountant*

              Hahaha. My acc professor had a variation. “What do you call a CPA who scored 65 vs a CPA who got a 95? “

              “CPA. (And he probably had more of a social life)”

              (I’m not a CPA)

        3. Close Bracket*

          > Idk if there’s any accounting jobs for people who hate communicating w others…for us here that’s a huge part of th job.

          General comment on this, not aimed at your situation:

          Like engineering, accounting a job that makes use of systemizing skills. A study on the jobs of the fathers of people on the spectrum found both engineering and accounting to be overrepresented. Given that parents of people on the spectrum commonly exhibit spectrum traits, I wonder if there is a higher-than-typical percentage of accountants who are really bad at communicating with others.

    2. Samata*

      I work with one of these. She is an “oh yeah, I forgot”-er and a “I didn’t realize that was an option”-er….A Serious Work Diverter. After 2 years of my boss telling me I was exaggerating & making mountains out of mole hills she had to work a few projects directly with her. Now she gets it. Still not doing anything, but at least now she is seeing it and I am confident is at least documenting and making steps towards realizing she is not a good fit.

      So, no advice. Just commiserating. It’s a hard position to be in.

      1. Rebecca*

        Oh, I’m in that boat. My coworker, who is supposed to be helping me, is one of these. Avoid, deflect, don’t do, whatever…but she sure has time to talk to her family members multiple times per day, deal with personal issues, surf Facebook, monitor things for sale on the local sell and swap site, and take every possible minute of accrued time off as soon as it posts. It is so frustrating! My manager’s response? I have to keep reminding her to do things. Why? She was hired to do a job! She should just do it!!

    3. Close Bracket*

      > I told her I’m going out to lunch and lets see when I get back. My expectation was that she would google or figure it out somehow.

      This calls to mind the questions that Allison gets sometimes from a manager at their wits end with a direct report where Allison will ask, “Are you SURE you’ve been direct with them?” In this case, you left her the out not to do any research on her own by telling her you would revisit it after lunch. There’s nothing to document here, except maybe that she didn’t come to you directly when you got back.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Well I’ve said it to her directly several times that she should be more proactive about researching and finding the answer before coming to us or waiting on us to give her an answer.

  10. TW*

    Speaking to a role that I left off my resume…I posted last week about this but didn’t get any bites however I have an interview today that I’m really excited about! The position has the same title as a role that I had a few a years ago but I was only at that role for 8 months so I don’t list it on my resume. A lot of the experience would align with the position I’m interviewing for today but is it weird to speak to it? I left because of a better job offer. I do have the position on my LinkedIn account which I noticed the hiring manager looked at yesterday. Just wasn’t sure what was recommended.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      If the experience is going to make you a stronger candidate and if your strongest answers to their interview questions will be from experiences at that role, you should absolutely talk about it. You can say, “I was actually a Teapot Analyst at Acme Corporation back in 2015 — I left it off my resume since I was only there for 8 months — but my experience in that role blahblahblah.”

      Clearly they like what they saw in your existing resume, so I think having directly matching experience should be a bonus to them, so long as you can explain that you left that job on good terms.

    2. Jessie the First (or second)*

      Not that this helps, but why did you leave it off your resume? I leave jobs off mine sometimes, but never if I think that a particular job in my history matches up well with a job I am applying for. (I don’t send the exact same resume to all employers – often I do, but a job I frequently leave off I will add back in if it seems relevant to a job posting).

      So I guess going forward, before you submit a resume make sure you’ve considered whether the resume has on it the things you’d want to talk about in an interview.

      If it is on your LinkedIn and the manager looked at it, she may ask you about it, in which case you can just mention since your time there was short you left it off your resume, but it was a really valuable experience nonetheless and will help you with this job because (and then why). Perhaps that kind of intro to it will work even if manager does not mention it.

    3. Close Bracket*

      It’s now the end of the day, how did it go? I hope it turns into an offer. For the future, if someone has looked at your LinkedIn profile, it might be weird NOT to bring it up. They know it’s there, and they might be wondering why it’s not on your resume. Some people question things like that.

  11. Nervous Accountant*

    I’ve increasingly become curious about this, bc this happened literally 5 times this month alone, when its usually 2-3x a YEAR.

    Why does someone request a female accountant to work with?

    Anything that involves a physical presence (therapist, doctor, physical trainer, etc), I would understand. I don’t see them face to face so there’s no physical presence there.

    IME (and trust me I was nice and understanding in the beginning but after my experience for 3 years, I’ve come to this conclusion)….I feel like they (male and female) request a female so they can bully them around. Case in point, the dingleberry client from a few weeks ago.

    I guess I should be glad I’ve never had someone say “I only want to work with a man!” or “I don’t want to work with a Muslim.” But after my experience so far, I feel like they just want someone who they can push around. almost all the ones who ask for a female accountant end up being unreasonable to a point.

    2. Temperance*

      Oh that stinks. I typically request women because I want to balance out all of the tools who think that men are smarter/better with numbers, but I honestly never thought about someone requesting a woman because they wanted to be a douche.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I have one client like that but her job/business is about empowering women so I get that. The rest have just been super weird

        1. Lil Fidget*

          I would have initially thought female clients might well request a female accountant because money stuff can be very personal and intimate (“this income is from the married man I’m sleeping with, but it’s gifts right” / “my husband doesn’t let me see my w-2 so how can I file this?” / “I think I’m going to be filing for divorce this year but nobody can know this, how do I handle the tax withholdings if he’s currently supporting me”) but it sounds like your clients are unusual for that.

        2. Jaydee*

          I would similarly have thought that a lot of the women would either 1) want to support a woman in a traditionally male field or 2) would want someone they thought would be less likely to talk down to them or assume they don’t understand money or math. But it sucks if they are just doing it because they think they can push you around.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      One, that’s really odd, and two, since you never see them face to face, could your organization just pretend to assign them to a female accountant? Who never likes to talk on the phone?

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        Nah, we have to communicate by phone. No one is allowed to not talk on the phone (except for my incompetent slacker cw from above).

    5. Jess*

      I have requested female driving instructors, plumbers, etc because I look young for my age and tend to come across as ‘sweet’ and I’m totally fed up of being condescended to and patronised by middle aged men. Not all men obviously, but it happens often enough that if there’s a way to avoid it with a female who will talk to me as if I’m on the same level as them, I will.

      I’m really sorry you’re having a different experience with why people request you :(

      1. Lil Fidget*

        True if there is one woman in a very high likelihood of man-splain-y circumstance (tech stuff, car stuff) I would be more likely to want her. She may still condescend to me or have to explain it ten million times because I don’t get it, but I’ll feel better if it’s coming from her :P

    6. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

      Diversity quotas? There are some companies that are so desperate to look relatable to everyone that would push rules like “all deparments must have a 45% of female, 20% PoC, 10% latino employees”.

    8. AngelicGamer aka that visually impaired peep*

      I simply feel more comfortable hearing something from a woman than a man and they’re less likely to brush me off if I can’t fully explain what’s wrong. Case in point – my stove / oven has been acting weird. I couldn’t explain it – it was a strange noise that I knew was wrong – but it would only happen every so often. One tech that came out was a guy – sped through everything and said it was all fine – and was in and out in 20 minutes with the oven / stove on for like 15 of those minutes. I felt he didn’t listen to me at all and we were still having the same issue. Call back, request a woman tech, and she comes out. She spends 2x the time, fixes the issue, and was pleasant the entire time, and explained how I could explain the issue to a guy in case it happened again. The stove / oven has been fine since she came out to fix it. She got a five star review and a call to her manager to sing her praises.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I’m glad she was helpful and you had a good experience with her. I can see your point, but I personally feel that being professional and providing great service isn’t limited to gender.

        1. bohtie*

          You literally ignored the point of the entire comment just to be snippy about someone feeling more comfortable with a woman.

          1. Nervous Accountant*

            I was not being snippy? This and a few comments above were helpful in understanding why people make certain requests.

        2. AngelicGamer aka that visually impaired peep*

          I agree – I’ve had a number of techs out to the house for our AC that were male and wonderful – but I also wanted to give a point of view of why I’m more likely to ask for a woman. With the stove / oven, it was because I just didn’t want to possibly deal with the same guy again. With others, it just seems that I get nicer service. Now, I’m also nice and polite back, no matter the gender, but I feel more heard with a woman. It’s just how it is for me.

          1. Nervous Accountant*

            I can totally understand that; ultimately everyone should be comfortable w the person they are working with. Thank you for sharing your experience, certainly didn’t mean to be snippy!

            1. AngelicGamer aka that visually impaired peep*

              It didn’t read as snippy to me, but more asking as clarification. :)

    9. Wolfram alpha*

      I feel like any client who requests a specific sex sfor any back office work is being sexist and yuck. It’s different if say, you prefer a female gyno or male proctor but anything else is just flag to me.

    10. Bea*

      Some women do not deal with men because of personal reasons. I think it’s rarely to be able to push anyone around, I’ve had bad experiences with both genders and I’ve rarely known an accountant of either sex to be susceptible to bullying given laws and regulations are the end all.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        They don’t bully over tax laws or rules that are set in ston but are more like…
        “I don’t get the warm and fuzzies from her, this person isn’t holding my hand enough, they’re not communicating well enough”

        In my case, the most recent ones were “I don’t care that she was away for a funeral, I should have been notified in advance!/I wanted to talk to her!”

        1. Close Bracket*

          > “I don’t get the warm and fuzzies from her, this person isn’t holding my hand enough, they’re not communicating well enough”

          That sounds very much like gendered expectations of women’s behavior. Women are expected to be warm and fuzzy and hold peoples’ hands and communicate well. Men are not expected to be warm or fuzzy or hold people’s hands, and they are given more latitude with communication. I don’t know why people ask for a female accountant in the first place, but gendered expectations of behavior are why they subsequently make those kinds of complaints once they get one.

          1. Nervous Accountant*

            Oh Don’t even get me started on that BS (not what you said but the expectations itself). Early on I was coached on being more nice and accommodating and flexible and give ppl warm and fuzzy and reduce their anxiety and bending over backwards and sugarcoating and being fluffy. Meanwhile, my (male) coworkers can straight up say no to a client and they don’t get in trouble.

            (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

    11. Armchair Analyst*

      I was a female paralegal. (well, I still am female…) Calling people who were owed money by our bankrupt customer.
      One lady only wanted to speak to a male attorney. Apparently, I yelled at her. I had no idea. People came in from down the hall to see what I was yelling about!
      And the other paralegal told me that she once had someone who only wanted to hear the exact same news from a Jewish Attorney.
      Ugh, people.
      (And I’m Jewish!) (But not a lawyer. And obvs. not a male…)

      1. Thursday Next*

        Someone actually requested a “Jewish attorney”? I should not have just taken a sip when I read that. Wow.

          1. Book Lover*

            I’ve seen that in medicine. They think they are being complimentary and not anti Semitic in saying how good Jewish doctors are and don’t realize how unpleasant it is for the doctor.

            1. LostInTheStacks*

              I remember a funny exchange on the TV show My Name Is Earl like that. The characters learn that their friend is in a coma, and one of them says she wants an opinion from “a real doctor. You know, a Jewish one.” The doctor replies. “I’m Indian. We’re the new Jews!”

    12. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      I personally request a female vet because my older cat does better with women than men. In accounting? Ego somehow.

    13. Blue Eagle*

      I request a woman whenever possible in male dominated fields so that management realizes that the public wants to see women in that field. Sort of like women empowerment – – – if I don’t ask to work with a woman, who will ask to work with me?

    14. LilySparrow*

      I think there is probably correlation between (a) people who are excessively nervous about being talked down to/”mansplained” and (b) people who are demanding and unreasonably aggressive.

      Not one-to-one. Plenty of reasonable people might be in group a. But I think group b people are likely to be in group a as well.

      In my experience, the most irrational, demanding people see themselves as very sensitive and vulnerable. They tend to believe everyone is trying to intimidate or take advantage of them, all the time, and the only way to protect themselves or get their due is to constantly escalate their demands.

      2. Betsy*

        In my opinion, the correlation is more likely to be ‘people who are aware that they might be condescended to’ and ‘feminists, or others who are aware of gender inequalities’.

        I’m pretty aware that I have a condescending co-worker (although he’s condescending to men too) and recently had to plan an event with a guy who was almost hilariously condescending, given our respective backgrounds in the area we were discussing.

        I have met the kinds of demanding people who think they’re extra vulnerable and enjoy that, so I know the kind of person you’re talking about, but I think they’re a small minority of people. However, most women I know have had experiences where they’ve been condescended to by older men, particularly, so we’re aware that this is a thing that happens.

  12. Lalaith*

    I had an interview yesterday. Yay! I’d really like this job, not least because it’s at the university where I got my Master’s degree :) But I’ve been going over and over the interview in my mind, and I think I may have botched the tech portion (it’s for a web developer position). I know there are things I didn’t explain well or forgot/left out due to nerves. Is there any way I can address this with them? Maybe in the thank-you note? I’m guessing probably not, but just wondering if anyone has managed to do it.

    1. [insert witty user name here]*

      Yes, I would email them and say something like, “Upon further reflection, I let my nerves get the better of me during our interview, due to my excitement for this position. I’d like to clarify what I said about XYZ…..” Keep it brief, but show your stuff and let them know you were a little nervous/excited. good luck!

      1. Bye Academia*

        I think this is too much information/sounds like an excuse. It’s normal for people to be nervous for an interview, but it isn’t really normal for people to cite it this heavily afterwards. It’s a little too familiar. I do think it’s good to reiterate excitement for the position and add in one (maybe two) pieces of info you forgot. Think through the most important point you missed saying during the interview, and focus on that.

        Something like:

        “It was great talking to you yesterday! I was thinking more about [specific topic], and I wanted to add [most important qualification]. After everything else we discussed, I am still very excited about the position and I hope to hear from you soon.”

        Plus anything else you normally add in your thank-you emails. Good luck!

        1. Sherm*

          I like this advice, and remember that 1) everyone else who was interviewed was nervous, and 2) these interviewees more than likely had brain freezes of their own. If you feel that they were impressed with you, there’s probably no damage control that needs to be done, but the note can always be used to reiterate your strong points. I know there is some good “thank you” advice in the AAM archives.

          1. Lalaith*

            Heh. I’m the first person they interviewed. I guess I can just hope that the rest have the same problems I did :-P

        2. LAI*

          Agreed with the second one. Don’t apologize – most people are nervous in interviews, and there’s a decent chance that you weren’t any more nervous than anyone else they interviewed. But yes, you can absolutely include new information in your follow-up email.

        3. Lalaith*

          That sounds good. All of it was fairly small stuff, though, I just feel like all put together it didn’t give a great impression. I think I ended on a strong note with the exercise they gave me, though. Crossing fingers! Thank you :)

  13. finding a reasonable boss?*

    My last few bosses were terrible at understanding how much time tasks actually take, when we had too much on our plate, and overpromising to their bosses. Talking to them never helped in the past jobs, and my current boss will acknowledge that I have too much on my plate, but will then go ahead and promise to her bosses that we’ll do things that add more to my workload. Last year I told her I would start looking for a new position if the workload was the same as/more than the past year, and she went into a meeting with her bosses and came out with a schedule for me that increased my workload.

    So — is this just how bosses are? I’m currently looking for a new position, and wondering if there are any questions or things to look out for in an interview process that will help me avoid getting into yet another situation like this.

    1. Longtime Listener, First time Caller*

      Maybe ask them a question about how they prioritize work for their team? How do they handle competing deadlines from higher-ups? Have they even been in a situation where their bosses wanted a deliverable, but their team was already overburdened? How did they handle it?

    2. hbc*

      Not all bosses are like that. I’d figure out a few questions to ask the hiring manager about their style*, and include something like “What did you do the last time an employee told you they were overloaded?” Or “Do you ever have targets set by you or those above you that your team has trouble meeting?” While no one will admit that they over-promise and pass on the stress, there will probably be hints one way or the other.

      *You definitely don’t want to make it the only question or they’ll infer that you can’t get your work done.

      1. JustinCase*

        “Do you ever have targets set by you or those above you that your team has trouble meeting?”

        This is a fantastic question. I’m hanging on to this in case I ever need it in an interview, thanks.

    3. Irene Adler*

      Might ask how the prospective new boss supports their reports.
      Then ask about different scenarios- how is the work load managed (planned vs. last minute scrambles vs. overtime to tackle things). Does the boss take an active role in your work tasks (such that they’ve done the work themselves in recent times)?

      Some bosses just think that if you managed your time “better” then you could tackle all the work assigned to you. So, might ask them for some time management tips to tackle the ever increasing work load your boss assigns to you. Sometimes it takes them actually digging into the work load themselves for them to see just how great the work load is.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      You could also look out for any interview questions that cover this. In my interview for my current job, they asked: tell me about a time when you couldn’t get everything done, as they wanted to hear about how I would prioritise. That turned out to have been a really good sign.

      Not all bosses are like this but some are. I had one who used to say “well you’ll just have to make time.” Out of what, I just don’t know.

      Also be on the lookout for mentions of how they all stay late to get things done.

    5. LKW*

      No not all bosses, but when pressure is coming from above, it’s hard for some bosses to push back. I worked for someone who was the only one making the ridiculous demands. We figured she just wanted to show that she could make miracles happen. The clients would make a request -our boss would pass on the request and then without consulting us would demand it be completed by a certain date. We’d rush the work and the client would be like “Wow, I didn’t need this for another 2 months!” meanwhile all of our current work was being delayed.

      I asked her to stop multiple times but her ego was too big.

      1. WellRed*

        “it’s hard for some bosses to push back”

        Agreed, but it takes a special kind of talent for a manager to bring even more work back to the employee.

    6. Thlayli*

      Not all bosses are like this. Given that you’ve already discussed it with her, I think this is a case of “your boss sucks and isn’t going to change”.

      For comparison, when I get overwhelmed I go to my boss with a list of tasks on my plate, estimated time to complete (or time per week for ongoing ones) and a first attempt at priority order, and he helps me figure out the priority order and sometimes reassigns stuff.

    7. Finding a reasonable boss?*

      Thanks for giving me hope that not all bosses are like this. And thanks for some great ideas for questions to ask, I’m definitely going to keep these for my next interview. I’ve had a couple so far, and am hoping that one of them works out. I wish I had asked these questions though! Would it be weird to ask them even after they offer me the job (if that happens, fingers crossed)?

    8. Earthwalker*

      I realized late in my career that I wanted not only a good boss, but a good grandboss, something I eventually started asking about in interviews. A bully grandboss can make a good boss irrelevant by demanding that he make his team do more than they possibly can. A strong boss will push back, of course. But if he find that he can’t change anything, a good boss will resign, making room for a bad boss, and a bad boss will overcommit his team.

    9. Miles*

      I’ve had one boss so far that wasn’t like this. He actually looked out for his team and I think that made the difference.

      But it also depends on the management culture of the workplace. If it’s cliquey at all or if your boss’s bosses get upset when they get told ‘no,’ then the actually effective boss won’t get to keep that job unless e sells out eir team.

      As for how to know that going in, I’ve asked on here before and the consensus always seemed that the interview process is not the place for it.

      The only method that I’ve found that seems to work is to get a lateral promotion to escape the bad ones.

  14. Nervous Accountant*

    I’m losing my patience and I know I”m going to sound mean but I want to vent.

    I’ve been coaching a coworker for a few weeks now. Client feedback has been not so great. Some legit (that she’s not confident) and just ridiculous af (digs at her accent–whcih btw is perfectly fine, those ppl r jerks)… One client even said that they thought this was a scam and htey were talking to a call center rather than a real accountant. *ickkkk*

    Anyway, so a few days ago, someone calls in on the weekend (we work weekends during tax season but our billing and other depts are closed). She talks to the client and puts them on hold and asks me what to say. I coach her to tell them that our billing Dept is closed and we’ve created a ticket for them, and the client will be contacted during normal business hours. I got busy in my own work and didn’t listen to what she said but she puts them on hold again and says “are they open for the holiday?” I tell her to tell them that billing will reach out during normal business hours. Right after, she says “dept is closed, you have to call back later”… facepalm.

    I let it go. I thought she was new to working and didn’t have a lot of experience. That’s OK, I was there too, I used to have a difficult time as well…so I try to be sympathetic and remember I made mistakes too…..but then i found out that she has the same license as me, more prestigious and this is her second or third long term job. So I’m just face palm at all of this and finding myself more impatient with her. Which I guess is wrong but it feels like a second coming of slacker cowroker. I talked to my mgr about it and he was facepalm too at the exchange….he told me that it seems like she’s doing that deliberately to get out of doing work.

    1. UtOh!*

      Um, so what is manager going to DO about it if she seems like she’s doing it deliberately to get out of doing work?! Your manager sounds like mine…lip service in response to any and everything.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I know he would want to coach as much as we can, and if it doesn’t work then cut them loose…right before the deadline we can’t afford to lose ppl for small things like this.

  15. Lipsy Magoo*

    Perhaps I’m tired of the corporate culture and struggling in my current job but I’m very curious…

    I’ve been here two years and we keep introducing new visions/change management models and nothing is really working… we had a vision and employee recognition program and this was rolled out to all staff and the management team was surprised that people weren’t more excited…

    The recognition program has started to suffer not receiving nominations which then caused a big analysis that I’m not sure yielded anything… not sure where it stands at the moment…

    Then the management team worked on a change management model… and it was supposed to be rolled out to staff and they were supposed to get trained… there was a change management task force that was then disbanded by HR…

    And now there is a new model… that I assume will be rolled out soon…

    I have never seen this anywhere else, in the sense of all the focus on putting these things in place AND then not really following through completely. I’ve also never seen such a formalization of the process – in other places when change was needed it was addressed in a much more direct way.. perhaps it’s the dysfunction and my level of disgust with it that is coloring my view as well.

    Is this the way these programs/models usually go? Have any of these worked anywhere else and if so are there any best practices? The staff literally rolls their eye when they get wind of something new coming, in part I’m sure because they are usually out of the loop anyway.

    1. Dovahkiin*

      I work in corporate and in my experience…yeah. “Employee recognition programs” that aren’t tied to bonuses/extra PTO/real rewards that aren’t just your name in a newsletter usually face a lack of enthusiasm. As far as the formality goes, it sounds like your HR is taking employee morale seriously, but they’re trying to do it without a budget for things that actually makes employees happy (like stipends for fitness memberships or on-site childcare).

    2. Luna*

      Yeah employee recognition programs are not as great as they sound. Half the time it’s just a pat on the back or something meaningless. Even when there is real money at stake, there is a lot of favoritism involved in the nomination process and the programs can actually really damage morale.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      Sadly, dysfunction in processes can be pretty common. It sounds like this process is going to be incredibly dysfunctional, as the people affected are not being involved with it and it’s not being communicated very well at all. (You can already see this in how people are rolling their eyes.)

      Formalized processes SHOULD have feedback built into them to work properly. There should be training. There should be a contact for people to come to if they need additional 1-on-1 training or they find their item isn’t covered under the process. I don’t know much about formalized best practices, but I know what works: a process that is clearly communicated, documentation that is easy to fill out to complete a part of the process, makes sense for the organization, has gatekeepers that follow through on their parts, has a person that can modify/reduce pinch points, and provides status/information on work that is, was, or will be done that is easily accessible. Clear communication about any changes made to the process and when/where various meetings for the process are held is also important. Being able to create and query reports is essential as well, because there’s no point in having information if it’s not in a usable format. If all these things are done, people generally stop violating the process and will easily admit when they need help or if there’s an issue.

      These are all things that I did to make the process at one company work. Instead of violating the process because they didn’t have time to deal with it and get work done, people became very proud of their work. Time that used to be wasted wondering what to do would be saved by getting a quick answer or a solution from calling me on the phone. “You don’t know the process? That’s fine, let me log into the demonstration environment and show you how it works, let me know if you have any questions.” People don’t like feeling like idiots; they knew I respected them, so they came to me, and the process worked. I ended up tailoring reports and queries to give them actionable information as well as information they could report to their higher ups (“I closed 300 tickets this year, look at how awesome I am”).

      These sorts of processes are more common in companies that have mission critical (think: something horrible could happen if it was down) systems, have a system that the federal government is working, or if the company is big/established.

      Tl;dr: Yes, more formal processes are common in certain types of companies. Yes, this is a dysfunctional process being created because it’s not involving the people that will use it and is not being followed through. (Probably because they’re afraid people are going to react badly, so they’re unconsciously noping out of finishing it.) Yes, you should be at least annoyed. The design of a proper formalized process would not go this way at all in an ideal world. Your management is putting up psychological roadblocks that will prevent it from working well, I suspect. But if the right person is within the organization, they can shepherd the process into actually serving the people using it.

      Wow, this got long.

    4. DCompliance*

      Were the employees given the opportunity to have a say in what type of reward program they would like to see? Were the managers given say? How did HR respond to the fact that the change management task force was supposed to roll out this model?

      1. Lipsy Magoo*

        Thanks for asking… The employees were not given the opportunity to provide feedback before or even after the program stalled. Only a few people on the management team were involved in creating the recognition program, they also didn’t ask for feedback from managers before implementing.

        HR said that they would train all staff on the model but never did. When I asked why I was told they had been busy with other projects and now there is a new model. Laminated cards were just made up and like last time they are only for management.

        The model had been worked on and finalized on in our “Leadership Forum” which is only comprised of management and often ideas there don’t make it out to all levels.

        People are used to this way of operating but I find it very frustrating and discouraging that the “front line staff” (non-exempt employees) are so easily forgotten…

    5. Annie Moose*

      Oh my wooooord this is my old company. I had four managers in two years because they kept reorganizing our department. They’d introduce some Bold New Direction!! for the company, and three months later no one remembered what it was about. They constantly were talking about change management this and process alignment that and never bothered to actually try something for more than six months straight.

      Nobody ever had any clue what the actual processes we should follow were, because they kept changing all the time… so we pretty much would just do things the way that made sense to us on a team level, and pay lip service to whatever the hot new program of the day was.

      I have a lot of fondness for my old company, but as time goes on, I find I miss it a great deal less than originally.

      1. Earthwalker*

        Me too. Once Bold New Direction was announced and the Management of Change slide sets had been presented, no one ever followed up. People would be saying, “Wait, is this my job now?” and others saying, “No, that’s my job,” and “Is not!” “Is so!” Without any leadership after the big roll-out to settle such questions, people tended to gravitate back to the familiar, doing their old jobs as usual and recovering old working relationships. But they kept their new titles and threw around some Bold New Direction verbiage as cover for backsliding into pretty much the Same Old Way. It was thin cover but none of the change authors ever seemed to notice.

    6. Positive Reframer*

      It sounds like everything is being implemented from the top down. Which just makes people feel even less listened too.

      Overall, people want a way to provide feedback that will actually change something, or even if it doesn’t that they get some sort of an explanation why.

      As far as recognition of a job well done. I enjoy what my company does. There is a kudos area on our internal web page that allows people to give a shout out to coworkers who are going above and beyond (it is moderated prior to posting). Sometimes this comes directly from customer feedback. They also post articles and videos of things that people have been recognized for outside of the company. Yearly they re-post the ones that got the most likes/comments.

    7. Anecdata*

      Yes, and in my experience, 90% of the time continually rolling out new employee recognition programs is a band-aid over not getting the fundamentals of management right. If I know what my role is, what excellence looks like, what advancement opportunities are available and how to get there, am treated respectfully and compensated fairly, and get an occasional sincere kudos, I’m going to be perfectly happy without a coffee cup celebrating my commitment to Innovation and Integrity.

      And when you don’t have that, all the celebratory certificates and congratulatory gift cards in the world won’t make an engaged and happy workforce.

      (Of course, I’d definitely be happy having both – and some workplaces do.)

    8. k*

      We have a non-monetary recognition program that actually works reasonably well – it’s called The Trophy of Great, and it’s a trophy, and it’s given out at the monthly all-staff meetings, and each person who gets it adds something to it and picks the next winner. It’s definitely not like “fair” or anything, but I guess since we all understand each decision is an individual decision, it’s not too like … fraught.

      Also, I think people try to give it to someone new each month, so it’s not like the same awesome person gets it all the time.

      We also had one on our department that was pretty cool – at the end of the year quarterly meeting, everyone drew a name and had to make and give the other person a creative / fun / silly award. Some people took it in different ways the first time we did it, but by the second time we were in the groove, and it felt nice to have to figure out awesome traits of people you may not always work with (though of course some people drew names of people they work with a lot). Sort of like Recognition Secret Santa.

      That’s just recognition programs. We do not have very good change management programs, even though we ought to, we’re based on design thinking principles. And our internal processes also suffer from not enough piloting or feedback. Sometimes they do try, though. Unfortunately when really weird things happen is when you need the processes and feedback most, and also when people implementing those things feel least secure and most like the just need to DO SOMETHING (or maybe we have a lot of bias-to-action people on our management team, and not so many bias-to-people people).

  16. Chameleon*

    Just a rant today: I’m currently an adjunct at a community college. Two (two!) full-time tenure track positions have opened at another local CC. One position is teaching the subject I have been teaching for the past two years, the other is in the subject I got my doctorate in. Both would pay nearly twice what I currently make. I also have an acquaintance who borders on a friend who works there.

    And I can’t make myself freaking sit down and write the damn application materials. URRGH. Self, why you have to be so lazy? (Or to be more honest, why do I have to respond to fear by avoidance?)

    1. Tara S.*

      I know the feeling, when you see an opportunity you’re actually excited about, and your brain just slams on the brakes. Sometimes I try and tell myself just to fill out the application, but you don’t have to send it. (Usually by the time I put it together I want to send it out, but somehow it takes the pressure off temporarily?)

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      why do I have to respond to fear by avoidance?

      Ugh, same. Overwhelmed by how much stuff you HAVE to do? The answer is to procrastinate, obviously!!!!

      I am kicking myself hard this week because I was scared of how much work I am responsible for and instead of doing some of the work ahead of schedule, I am now scrambling to get it all done by the end of the week.

      Anyway, I feel you, Chameleon.

    3. Kix*

      You can do it! It took me working with a career coach external to my organization to shake me silly and wake me up to the fact that it was time to leave #OldJob. This was around the time that a new opportunity opened up in a program I’d worked in previously and is currently managed by a previous manager who knows me and my skillsets very well. Long story short, I had to practically glue myself to the chair to get the application done, but it was worth the self-flagellation because I did get the job. I’m 100% happier in my new role, and I actually have a work-life balance now.

    5. July*

      I have a technique for this! I hire myself to do the job. If my job required doing some fear-inducing personal task for someone else, I could totally do it without a whimper. So, when this kind of thing comes up, I put on a blazer that signals “work” to me and say out loud the steps I need to take, referring to myself in the third person. It’s very silly, but it does create enough distance between me and the task I can get through it much more easily.

      1. JustaTech*

        I should try this. I used to have a terrible time with cover letters until I tried thinking about myself as someone else (who I liked) or (when it was really bad) as though it was a school report and “I” was a character in a book.

    6. Chameleon*

      One of my major issues, honestly, is that writing of any sort has always been painful to the point of pulling teeth for me. Even if I know the topic like the back of my hand simply putting it on (virtual) paper is crazy hard. So talking myself up (hard) in writing (harder) for something that is fairly high-stakes–yeah.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Try talking first indeed. To your cat or a pot plant or whatever works – I find that can really help me work out how to write something.

      2. hermit crab*

        I think we might be the same person! When I was a kid I learned that, as part of the mummification process, the ancient Egyptians would pull out a deceased person’s brain through their nose with a special hook. THAT is what writing feels like to me – pulling out your brain in a way that it is not supposed to go. I was one of those students who was always told they were a good writer, and perhaps I am, but oh it is just so so hard.

        But you can do it!! It’s ok that it’s hard. You will feel so good afterwards. :)

    7. Overeducated needs a new name*

      Oh man. “If I don’t bother to apply, they can’t reject me!” I know that feeling. It’s tough, maybe do some combination of carrot and stick (force yourself to do it but promise yourself a treat), and take it in small bites if it’s one of those complicated academic applications.

    8. Simone R*

      Are you me? Including the choice of username! Anyways, what has helped me a lot is knowing that I’ve always got this stuff done in time. It might be in at the hour of the deadline, but it’s gotten in, and it’s worked out for me! My undergrad and PhD applications were all finished at the last minute but were very successful. As it seems to have for you, since you have a doctorate! Accepting that the whining, grumping, and procrastination are all part of the process and not something to battle against has made me slightly calmer (if not happier). I will never be the person that has the application in early.

    9. Longtime Listener, First time Caller*

      Whenever I have a hard time getting myself to do something, I set timers. I love the Pomodoro Technique: https://tomato-timer.com/

      I set the timer for 25 minutes, don’t let myself get distracted and buckle down and do it. Then I set a timer for a 5/10 minute break. Once it’s over, I set another 25 minutes timer and get back to work.

      Also, one of my favorite quotes that I repeat ad nauseum when I am avoiding work: “Nothing will make you feel better than doing the work.”

      1. Annie Moose*

        Going along with this, when I get paralyzed on something, I break it down to very small pieces and go, “OK, you just have to do this one tiny piece today.” (as in, something I can finish in five minutes) And when I’m done, if I feel like continuing, I can, but if I feel that I can’t, that’s OK–I got at least one thing done, and that’s a victory.

    10. Delta Delta*

      I’m way into rewards. You deserve a hot fudge sundae/massage/long walk with the dog, but only when you get your application done. At least, that’s how I get myself to do things I can’t seem to get started on.

    11. Reba*

      I know the avoidance thing well.

      Chameleon, don’t be afraid to let your excellence out! Show up for these cover letters! It’s ok to care about them, to feel weird about them, to write shitty first drafts!

      Wishing you lots of luck with the applications.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Are you sure it is laziness/fear?

      Sometimes when my gut says NOOOOO I need to listen to that. Take a minute to find out some background. Are other people truly happy there or is the place a hellhole.

    13. Roja*

      Ugh. This is totally me today too. I’ve done everything for an adjunct opening application except the cover letter, and I’m so terrified of it I’m putting it off. No words of advice, just solidarity.

    14. Jiya*

      Hey, you know what? You’re okay. You have a job right now, so you’re applying from a position of strength. If you get rejected, things will be no different than they are now. There are only upsides to filling out that application!

  17. Anonsy*

    Speaking highly generally, I have a stalker, but I am needing to look for a job since I’ve hit the ceiling at my current place/stalker knows I work here. I haven’t job hunted with stalker before. Any tips on how to do this?

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Instead of putting your resume/general information up for the world to see on places like Monster or Indeed or whatever isn’t sketchy these days, I would look at specific company websites. Most of them will have a ‘careers’ section where you can apply in a targeted fashion to specific jobs.

      I don’t know how much you know about your stalker — if you know where they do/don’t work, etc — but that’s a good way to keep a lower profile.

    2. PoniezRUs*

      Apply through recruiters that will hopefully keep your information confidential. Do you know who your stalker hangs out with? Are you able to avoid this person’s social circle that could potentially tip him off about job hunting (accidentally)? Keep your search quiet from your social circle too. I wish you the best of luck!

    3. Tara S.*

      I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this. Maybe leave your address off your resume, in case they get ahold of it?

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Maybe use a temp agency/headhunter to help with your job search so your contact information isn’t being blasted all over the place.

    5. Curious Cat*

      In this realm but not directly job related — a good friend of mine had a stalker a couple years ago and was trying to switch apartments, so she used myself/other friends to be a third party and do her apartment hunting for her so there were no paper trails and she wouldn’t be followed. So, I’m agreeing with everyone else that you should try to use a third-party or very direct way to apply for jobs (i.e. emailing hiring managers directly when you’re able to/makes sense to), or using a recruiter. I’m sorry you’re going through this — it’s just a sucky situation.

    6. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Recruiter and direct applications are probably your best bet. Sorry you have to deal with a stalker.

    7. Tuxedo Cat*

      You could get a Google number that you just use for your job search. I haven’t had any luck with job boards so I don’t post there anyway, but you could leave off your address. If you’re worried about being followed to interview locations, I would make a point of scheduling interviews so that you leave from home to interview location.

    8. Bea W*

      I did this. I applied directly or through recruiters. I don’t make my LinkedIn current or old positions available to anyone who is not a connection. I did not talk about it on social media or online in general.

      My stalker did manage to find my new work somehow and get my direct desk phone number. I suspect he did that by chatting up the front desk or calling random people and pretending he had a wrong number. I assume he did the same praying on unsuspecting people at my old job until he found someone who was not aware of who he was. He also had access to some databases used by law enforcement. So that may have been another avenue of investigation, but more likely he just made a lot of calls and just kept spewing the BS and manipulating people until he got the information he wanted.

      He would have found out I left when he called and whoever was assigned my desk next picked up the phone. That’s pretty inevitable with a stalker. If you can, make your co-workers aware not to divulge any information about you. You don’t even have to tell your old job where you’ll be going if you’re afraid someone will accidentally spill the beans.

    9. Traveling Teacher*

      Speaking from experience: move abroad to a country where he doesn’t speak the language. Change your name if you can, too, without affecting your professional life!

      1. Traveling Teacher*

        This is the nuclear option, of course, but if things are getting more serious/dangerous, it can be something to seriously consider.

    10. neverjaunty*

      For your phone I recommend the Burner app. It lets you generate new and “throwaway” numbers and to block incoming calls you don’t want.

    11. MaltaKano*

      Ugh I’m so sorry. I’ve been there, too. I like the others’ suggestions – while job hunting, I just kept all my info off LinkedIn or any visible social media and just applied directly to the organizations. On my resume, I used an old home address in the same city, so the employer knew my general area, but my stalker wouldn’t have my new address if somehow my resume got public.

      My stalker was someone at my old job, starting up after I’d only been there about 9 months, and my company did a terrible job handling the whole thing. It was such an overwhelming part of my life – I had to move, work from home and remote offices, all while making time to meet regularly with the police and a detective our HR department hired – and half of the office was convinced I was doing these things to myself for attention! It was challenging not to mention anything about it job interviews, but I couldn’t well say “I’m leaving my job because a deranged coworker slashed my tires and follows me home,” and just cited professional reasons for moving on. Thankfully I found a job that was a much better fit in a new, wonderfully safe area. The police could never 100% identify the person, even though eventually it became pretty clear who it was, so she still works there. I hear from old coworkers that she still tells wild stories about me from time to time.

      My whole first year at my new job, I was petrified this person would find me and somehow ruin my new gig (a lot of what she had done was send letters to my bosses alleging all this bizarre “misconduct” I’d committed). Looking back, I should have given my new boss a heads up just in case, but I was so mixed up from not really being believed by my old company at first, so ultimately I didn’t mention anything. I didn’t want to seem potentially difficult. After about a year in my new position, I started to breathe easy, certain I am known, valued, and trusted here. Even now, though, I find it hard to talk about it at my new workplace. I know my colleagues believe me, but it’s such a strange thing that no one really knows how to respond, and so very few people ask follow-up questions or offer helpful support when I share that I had a stalker. I think people just don’t know what to say.

      All that to say – you’ve got this. It will absolutely get better. And, when you find a great new job, I wouldn’t be afraid to go to your new company and ask them to keep your name off anything public, just so they’re in the loop. Best of luck.

  18. Lavender*

    Had a bit of a weird week in the last week! The tl;dr of my questions are: What’s the right way to ask about work/life balance in an interview? Also, was this entirely on my mistakes or was this kind of odd?

    The backstory: Had an interview on Wednesday, first and only in person interview. They sent me an offer on Friday. I emailed with some questions over the 3 day weekend – part tell me more about the benefits you offer, but also I realized I didn’t get a chance to ask about work/life balance in the interview so I asked that too. (Directly: What is the work/life balance like?)

    The hiring manager and I set up a call for Tuesday and when I brought up my question about work/life balance the conversation turned quick. What I was trying to get an understanding of is how people work – is it more of a 9-5 or more of an 8-8 type of office, and if someone gets an email at 10 pm or on a Saturday are they expected to respond to it right away or is it okay to hold it until work time? I’m understanding that it was a salaried (not hourly) position and that hours change and sometimes there are occasional nights where people work late, and I’m fine with that, but I wanted to have an idea of the full picture before committing to the offer. The hiring manager gave me answers that felt very vague about how things are always changing and she expected everyone to get their work done. I did ask her if people ever take their work home with them and she said she’d be very concerned if people couldn’t finish their day at the office. All in all, it seemed reasonable to me, but she said my questions made her nervous about my candidacy and we ended the conversation with her saying “take some time to really think about if you want this position or not and let me know.”

    There are definitely more details that I’m leaving out (it’s been a whirlwind), but in the de-evolution of the conversation she also asked me: “What are you really looking for in a job?” “If you could have any job right now, regardless of circumstance, what would it be?” “If your current manager came to you in 6 months offering you a full time position, would you take it?” (I am a contractor looking for full time work. My attempt at finding something internally full time have not worked out, and I’m ready to move onto a new place. My current manager acted as glowing reference for me – because of the setup of the position, she knows I’m looking and is supportive of me finding something else.) The whole conversation only lasted about 15 minutes as well.

    I reached out to her the next day saying I’ve thought about it and would like to continue with the position, but she instead pulled the offer.

    I’m only a few years out of school, and I realize in hindsight that my questions could make me seem flaky, which was not my intention. I know there were probably ways to get a clearer answer with less scary questions, but I’m not sure what they are. I’ve had interviews with other companies in the past where they’re clear about the scope of the position, if there are required weekend hours or how long days normally are. In this situation, I was thrown off by what seemed like a pretty simple conversation with other companies turning so quickly. Have I been doing it wrong this whole time?

    Ultimately I know this outcome was for the best: I don’t want to work with someone who doesn’t want to work with me, even though I really need a full time job. There were also some things that weren’t my favorite, such as the fact that this is a less than 10 people company and her multiple notes about how the staff is “like a family,” but I thought I could handle it for a few years at least.

    Sorry that this is so long! What I’m trying to figure out is this: was this all on me, and I was fully in the wrong for asking about work/life after having already received an offer, or were her actions somewhat sudden and turning? What’s the best way to understand work/life balance in an interview?

    1. C.*

      From my perspective, I think asking directly like you did might have put her off, but she also handled it weirdly. Even though it’s such an important factor, it’s hard to get straight answers because everyone’s work-life balance is different based on what’s going on in their lives – you might be asking about hours, they might think you’re asking about PTO and ability to work from home. I think the questions you said you’ve asked in the past, like weekend work, what times people usually are in the office, are good ones to keep asking! But asking “What is the work/life balance like” outright is too vague and hard for someone to answer without knowing what sort of issues you’re concerned about.

      1. Anony*

        I agree that asking specific questions may work better (such as asking about what hours are typical and if you are expected to take work home).

        Overall I think you were right to ask. I also think they may have been right to pull the offer if they do not actually offer the work-life balance that you need. The way I read it, you were sending signals that you want a typical 9-5 (or 8-6) job and don’t want to have to work on the weekends regularly. It sounds like that was not this job. If you are not looking for a job that has regular (and reasonable) working hours, then you may want to try adding some more context to your questions. For example, if you are willing to work more hours but would need a higher salary you could bring it up more in the context of salary negotiation.

        1. Jerry Vandesic*

          You dodged.a.bullet. It might not feel that way OP, but her inability to answer (or even deal with) your questions means she doesn’t understand what work/life balance is about.

    2. Probably Nerdy*

      I’ve just asked directly before and no one had an issue – in fact mostly they were proud to demonstrate how great the work/life balance was. Like, “we know this is an issue industry wide but we are tackling it head on” sort of thing.

    3. Madeleine Matilda*

      I’m a manager and I don’t think your question was a bad one. My agency really values work/life balance so if a candidate for a position asked about it I wouldn’t find anything strange about the question. However, it’s possible the place where you interviewed doesn’t value work/life balance. To avoid a similar situation in the future, you might ask about the office culture, but really I think it is fair to ask about the things you did.

      1. Margery*

        I don’t think there was anything wrong in asking and I actually think you’ve dodged a bullet. What if you took it and ended up working 80 hours a week!

        Good luck with your job search.

    4. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Work/life balance was a big part of why I left my last job so I was quite blunt about it in my interviews. The response was mixed but I was blessed to be in a position where I could take my time choosing and I didn’t want to do it wrong. Current company does not even issue laptops and really feels like they failed you if you have to work more than 30 minutes past the “normal” leave time more than twice in a week.

    5. AliceW*

      I might be better and you may get a clearer response if you ask more specific questions such as how busy is a typical day? When are your busiest periods during the year? Is there a good ebb and flow to the workload? Are there important deadlines I need to meet daily, monthly, quarterly? Some firms want to hire young people because they are full of energy and are willing to work hard to prove themselves (e.g. okay with crazy hours). If that is what they were hoping for, your general questions about work/life balance might have scared them off.

      1. Safetykats*

        I agree that more specific questions are likely to be more effective and less easily misinterpreted. For example, you could ask what the normal working hours are, and also ask how often overtime is required. This is both more direct and more work-oriented than the similar questions you asked. In general, I think it’s a poor practice to ask these kinds of questions in a way that makes it sound like you want a special schedule, or don’t recognize there is likely a standard schedule. You can also ask about things like company support of community programs, policies on accumulation/use of paid vacation time, and things like that which are likely to give you an idea of whether everyone uses all their vacation every year or not, and whether the company supports employees volunteering on or outside company time. These kinds of things are work-life balance indicators.

        Note that it’s possible to research things like community involvement up front, which enables you to ask specific questions about things that are important to the company, which is always impressive.

        You can also always ask whether it’s possible to talk to someone at the working level about their typical workload or workday, which will give you an opportunity to ask these kinds of questions Of someone other than the hiring manager.

    6. DDJ*

      Ok! These are all the things I found to be flags:

      -things are always changing: if you like any kind of stability, this isn’t good. Most people will acknowledge that you can’t always know how things will go, but to just say “things are always changing” suggests a lot of upheaval.

      -she’d be very concerned if people couldn’t finish their day at the office – note that she didn’t say she’d be concerned if people couldn’t finish their work through a regular work day. When you asked about taking work home, she probably thought that if anything was left, you’d just stay at the office until it was finished.

      -my questions made her nervous – questions about work/life balance really shouldn’t make a hiring manager nervous. Unless they’re trying to hide something, or if they know that their work/life balance sucks. If work/life balance is important to you, then you need to make sure you don’t end up at a company that has no concept of it.

      -multiple notes about how the staff is “like a family” – combined with everything else, this is a 100-foot red flag. My guess is that long hours are normal, and no one is allowed to complain about it. And you will NOT be adequately compensated. Because I mean, you’re family, right? What’s money between family?

      I think this one may have been a case of the universe helping you out in making the decision for you that this would have been a terrible fit.

      In the future, no vague questions! Find out what you want to find out. If having a good work/life balance means getting your weekends off and not being expected to regularly work overtime, then focus your questions there. And I think you’ve almost nailed it with what you wrote: “is it more of a 9-5 or more of an 8-8 type of office, and if someone gets an email at 10 pm or on a Saturday are they expected to respond to it right away or is it okay to hold it until work time?”

      Those are great questions! And actually ones that I’ll keep in mind in case I end up job hunting in the near future. I’ve gotten really used to leaving work at work, and I don’t think I could move into an environment where I couldn’t do that. I don’t check my work email on the weekends. Yes, I do sometimes put in extra hours, and yes, I have occasionally come in on a weekend to meet a deadline. But those were one-off situations, and were in no way a reflection of the usual expectations.

    7. Wolfram alpha*

      Bullet dodged imo. Sounds like she did not want to answer truthfully that “you are expected to work late in the office on short notice frequently and wfh is frowned upon” and then tried to gaslite you with dedication crap.

    8. Someone else*

      To me, her response was red flaggy. She seemed to interpret your asking at all as some sort of…resistance, which from what you’ve said here, doesn’t sound like it’s the case. Her non-responses are also weird to me because different offices do things differently. Like her comment about being concerned about people not finishing during work hours…ok that’s a valid concern but also I’d sort of expect that to go hand in hand with a more 9-5 culture. If she were simultaneously stressing that it’s exempt and things change and you need to be available to do what needs doing…that’s a different culture than one where no one ever takes work home or works weekends. That’s a weird contradiction. The comment to really consider what you want is a logical one…but not when she evaded answering the question.
      I do think this is a tricky topic to get into because it should be reasonable for one person to just say flat out “so what’s it like here” without necessarily stating or insinuating a particular preference. I want this to be the sort of thing employers and employees can just discuss directly and then decide what’s a fit, rather than one side judging the other or guessing what the other preferred based on the question being asked in the first place. Asking shouldn’t be treated as some sort of hidden test, but in reality some people react that way.

    9. Lavender*

      Thank you everyone to your advice! I’m really glad that this didn’t end up working out for me now, and will definitely look to being clearer in future interviews.

      I think part of the fear I’m facing is that I worry if I ask too many questions about life outside of work in an interview and not just about the work itself it’ll seem like I’m only in it for the benefits and not the work itself (but that probably plays into a larger cultural conversation about how work is your life when you’re 25 and the pressure to make your career your identity). Just gotta find something that respects the balance!

    10. Espeon*

      Bullet-dodged on so many levels, Lavender!

      When I was last job hunting I interviewed at a fun-seeming company. They were offering flexible hours, I interviewed and asked about this, they were happy enough to invite me for a second interview, and then after the second interview they sent a seriously nasty email about me to the recruiter… saying what an awful person I was for enquiring about the flexible hours THAT THEY OFFERED IN THE FIRST PLACE. I think they actually called me ‘disgusting’. The moral of this story is, there are some weird and F-ing awful companies out there.

      I told the recruiter who helped me get my current job this story, and she basically guessed which company it was – apparently they’re notoriously horrid, and a lot of recruiters won’t work for them anymore.

    11. Jennifer Thneed*

      > her multiple notes about how the staff is “like a family,”

      Hugest red flag in the universe. If the *employees* say that, that’s one thing, but if the management says it, well, that’s bad. (Because nobody can really know what it’s like to work for themselves. It’s just a fact of our human brains.)

      I know it feels crappy that they pulled the offer, but try to feel good about it your escape. And search around in the archives here for horror stories associated with companies that regard themselves as “like a family”.

    12. Close Bracket*

      Something to think about in the future is asking to talk with your future co-workers. If the answer is no, that tells you something right there. If the answer is yes, ask them behavioral-style questions like, tell me about how you handle late night or weekend requests.

  19. NewVaca*

    How would you handle this situation? I’ve just been offered a position counter offered, and am still waiting to hear back. The recruiter followed up with me that they are still working on it.

    At the end of May, I have a trip booked. This is my first time countering an offer so in the past I’ve always just said ‘I just want hiring manager to know I have a trip in X months. If that’s ok with hiring manager, I accept/can start in two weeks’. But, since I countered, was I supposed to bring it up then with the counter, or not until I’m in a position to accept the offer?

    1. Emmie*

      I would have brought it up in the counter offer, but it’s not too late to correct it. I’d reach out today to tell them.

      1. NewVaca*

        Ok thanks, I just called and left a voicemail. I hate that there can be all these nuances for negotiating, always worried that a small misstep could cost the job :/

        1. Emmie*

          That worry is so stressful! The good news is that you probably don’t have much experience negotiating job offers, and you’re probably a very loyal employee. Good luck!!

        2. Close Bracket*

          I would have waited for them to get back to me. You can’t tell what a stranger will find off putting, but my concern would be that multiple conditions at once would not go over well. Of course, for every manager who balks at multiple requests at the same time, there will be another who wishes you would bring everything up at once.

    2. Slartibartfast*

      My Spanglish kicked in, and I spent far too much time just now trying to figure out why your screen name was “new cow”

  20. Eric*

    Has anyone ever lost a job that they loved? How did you get over it and move on?

    I had a job at a nonprofit. I loved it. I loved the mission, I loved my colleagues, I loved everything about the job. I enjoyed it so much it didn’t even feel like work.

    The board made a decision that they wanted the staff to reflect the population the nonprofit serves. Anyone who did not meet this was fired and escorted out.

    No other job I have found compares. I miss that job so much. Since I don’t meet the criteria (am not the population they serve) and never will I am not eligible for rehire there. They only hire people who meet the criteria with no exception.

    Does anyone have any tips for how I can accept that I will never work there again. I want to move on from that job but so far I’m not having any luck. I see jobs posted for that place that they are having a hard time filling that I’d be perfect for but I have no chance and will never get hired. How can I move forward?

    1. Trillion*

      Yes! I was laid off from a small company that I loved so much. It was terribly difficult because I was the breadwinner (I lived with my sister who was finishing University and had a part time job).

      I cried, a lot (common theme with me.) Allow yourself to mourn. This can be super traumatic.

      But please know that there are other super awesome jobs out there with great bosses, cool coworkers, and engaging work. Believe that you WILL get another one of these in your life.

      I’m not going into the hokey lie that if you just “WANT it enough and TRY enough”, you’ll get hired at one of these jobs, but it’s much much more likely that you won’t get one if you keep telling yourself that you won’t. That doubt will likely come across to interviewers. You have to be confident that you could get hired there (and why not, you said you’d be perfect for the job!) Even if you have to lie to yourself, you only have to believe the lie for short amounts of time.

      Besides, it’s not a lie. You’re perfect for the job, so all you have to do it show that to the interviewers!

      I’m so sorry about your job :( It’s hard to lose your job, and even harder when it’s one you loved.

    2. EmilyAnn*

      I think you have to accept that it was an organization that doesn’t align with your values. You feel you could serve their mission and they don’t think you have the correct identity to serve that population. It seems very shortsighted on their part. Maybe there are legitimate reasons why all their employees should check certain boxes, but it seems strange to me. Are there other organizations who do the same work? You seemed to love the mission, but hopefully you can serve the mission in a different place than this particular organization.

    3. Goya de la Mancha*

      Wow, that just seems completely off to me! I’ve never had a job I loved…so I don’t know how to help you there, but to fire anyone who doesn’t reflect a certain population, regardless of work performance feels….not kosher. I can understand wanting to make an extra effort in future hirings, but to say “You do awesome work, but you’re not a Vet (or homeless, low-income, “insert non-profit service population”), there’s the door” is that even legal?

    4. Susan K*

      Wow, that is really tough, and I’m sorry this happened to you. How long ago did you lose this job? I think maybe it could be similar to losing a loved one, in that you might never completely “get over it,” but over time, the sadness and sense of loss will fade and you will find new things that bring you happiness. Have you started working at another job yet? When you do (if not already), look for things to appreciate about the new job — good pay or benefits? Short commute? Free snacks? Try not to compare it to the other job, because the old job is not an option anymore. Look at the new job as the best option you have right now.

    5. ExcelJedi*

      Wow, that sucks! I’m sorry to hear you lost a great job like that!

      What criteria are they using to determine that? Did they do their firing based on protected classes? Sorry…this just seems bizarre to me!

      I’d suggest looking for jobs at other non-profits – particularly non-profits that your old job worked with in the area. Do you have contacts at other non-profits that you met in your last position? That might be a good place to start networking.

    6. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Wow…this seems really weird to me. I can see making a concerted effort to make sure any new staff reflect the population but firing current employees (who I am assuming are doing a good job) seems really extreme and not in the best interests of the NP (at least in the short-term).
      I’ve never worked for a non-profit and do absolutely understand wanting the staff to reflect the population being served but I would think someone who was that passionate about the mission and had been working there for a while would at least deserve the courtesy of a 3-6 month notice as opposed to being walked out like they were a criminal. I would think that would also be in the NP’s best interest in terms of continuing to serve the population during the hiring and training process.
      Personally being let go in that manner would have soured me on the job but I understand that I don’t have the passion or experiences Eric does so can’t really relate.

      1. paul*

        To expand: My mind’s immediately going to age/race/gender here, with a side possibility of cultural background. That can open them up to a world of legal hurt if they’re in the US. Even if it’s not an issue of protected classes–say they only wanted to employ abuse survivors, or they only wanted to employ veterans, or something–it is still incredibly short sighted to nuke your staff like that.

        Do you have any other contacts in local non profits? My experience is that (at least in small towns) the non profit community tends to be kind of interconnected. That can be a useful foot in the door. Also, apply even if you don’t think you have a chance. It sucks to do (I know, I’ve been doing it lately).

    8. Safetykats*

      I not only lost a job I loved (my grandboss was fired, and shortly thereafter all her direct reports were replaced, although a bit more gently). I then was offered another job I was convinced was my dream job, but at a salary that was too low to consider taking. I was fortunate enough to be offered a job at an affiliate of the company that let me go – really fortunate, as I found out much later some folks in management at the old company and the affiliate worked pretty hard to make that happen. But the whole thing was so unpleasant that it took a long time before I was able to really appreciate how good the new job is.

      I think, as with any other loss, you just have to mourn. It’s okay to feel bad about losing your old job, and it’s okay to feel bad about the really unfair way in which that happened. You will probably feel that way for a while. (It took me about a year to feel like I was happy, and fortunate, to have landed where I did,)

      It’s probably not helpful to keep looking at the job postings at your old non-profit. It’s like checking your ex’s FB or instagram – there’s no point in it, and it doesn’t help you let go or move on.

      It might be helpful to connect with ex coworkers who were also let go. I say “might” because whether this is helpful or not depends on whether you can be supportive of each other or whether you just relive the crappiness of the whole thing. At a minimum, those people understand how you feel, and that can be really validating.

      If you have landed somewhere decent, I guarantee there are things about your new job that you can (and maybe should) be passionate about. It does take some work to find those things. It’s definitely harder to do when your still mourning the old job. Practicing gratitude, and living in the moment, is helpful. Find something about your new job, or your new coworkers, that you can appreciate every day. Even just a little thing. Concentrate on that thing. Find out what other people like about your new company. Get involved in some of those things. Appreciate those things and those people.

      Maybe your new job isn’t where you will stay, or ultimately where you will be happiest. But once you’ve made yourself able to be happy enough there, and once you’re done mourning the old job, you will be more likely to make good decisions about future jobs.

      I know, because almost 4 years later I’m very happy where I landed, and have decided it was ultimately all for the best. In fact, so much so that I’ve recruited several former coworkers (who are all pretty happy too). It really is a great place for me, and I’m so glad I stayed long enough and worked hard enough to figure that out.

      1. Observer*

        It’s probably not helpful to keep looking at the job postings at your old non-profit. It’s like checking your ex’s FB or instagram – there’s no point in it, and it doesn’t help you let go or move on.

        I mostly agree with this. But one thought comes to mind. Eric, they are having a hard time filling the job. WHY? You don’t really need the answer, and I agree that spending time and energy trying to figure out the reason will keep you tied to them, and that’s not healthy. But you SHOULD realize that something is not right with your former employer – it’s no longer the place you remember. If it were that great, they would not be having such a hard time filling the post.

    9. Nan*

      Is that even legal? Most states are hire/fire at will, but they are also bound by equal opportunity laws. If it’s a Jewish org, they can’t not hire you because your Catholic. If it serves Hispanic people, they can’t not hire you because you are African American. If it serves men only, they can’t not hire you because you are a women. Or fire, you either.

      Even if I think of it from an income status, say you serve people in poverty. Great! If they hire someone and pay them crap to keep them in poverty they suck, and if they fire once someone makes enough money not to hit the demographic, they suck, too.

      How is that legal? Someone? Anyone?

      1. Anecdata*

        It depends on what “the population they serve” is, and whether it’s based on a protected class.

        So, if they serve women and want to hire only women, it’s probably illegal (gender is a protected class). If it’s something like “We only hire people who have personally experienced homelessness” (not a protected class), that’s probably legal.

      2. JD SAHE*

        Actually, if its a religious organization, they legally can discriminate on the basis of their religion. And challenges to this get struck down all the time.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      I can’t tell for sure, but you have not found anything yet? It will get better once you see your life moving forward, which your life WILL move forward. Right now is probably the worst it will be. As others have said, cry. Mourn the loss.

      I quit a job I had for eight years. It was THE job of my life. (Did not realize 8 years is too long to wait to figure out if the job will become something.) I had a nine week long migraine. It was one of the worst headaches I have ever had. I decided to return to school to pick up other pieces of my life. I think I was about a month into classes and I realized my headache was mostly gone.

      Because this was such a bfd for me I started doing an autopsy of what happened here:

      1) *I* made the job so important. My universe rested on this job. This is such a bad plan. Our lives cannot be centered around one thing or person, we need to develop our lives so that if one thing tanks we have another aspect that is still going well. I decided that I made too large a commitment to this employer and would never make this size commitment again.

      2) Looking back there were signs that I probably should have left earlier. I chose to ignore them. OR I could have chosen to do the job part time and develop myself at a full time job. I did not look around with eyes wide open. I was love blind. I figured out that I needed to think about what is best for ME, rather than hoping and praying an employer eventually promotes me. I needed to make decisions on facts not emotions.

      3) This was the most devastating part. These people were not who I thought they were. This part was even worse than letting go of the job. How come there was such a gap between reality and my impression? Some of that was my fault and some was not. I was in my early twenties, now I think I probably got played a little bit on that one because of my lack of work world experience. My take away on this part was not to stay at a job just because of the people, there has to be more reasons than “good folks” to stay. I started to beef up my expectations about an employer.

      What your employer did to you was horrid, OP. Sometimes people turn out to be something different from who we think they are. It’s an awful feeling. Promise yourself not to get mixed up with these people ever again, they are not trust worthy. Don’t skate by this point, promising yourself to move on to something better is a big deal. Make that promise to yourself.

    11. Beancounter in Texas*

      Give yourself time to mourn and heal.

      I had a job I loved so much it didn’t like work too. Then the owner (my boss) sold the company and while I retained my job title & pay & benefits, my job duties were outsourced to a corporate office and I was just the person who forwarded their work to them. I was miserable and our vendors hated it, but I’ll not tangent off to complain.

      I found a job that a was an okay fit and I was depressed at having lost the job that was so awesome. It’s taken me seven years now, but I’m pretty happy at the job I have now. It’s my second favorite job I’ve ever had. Good luck.

    12. Observer*

      Well, I suspect that the job has changed in significant ways, and some of them would be ways that would make the job much less enjoyable to you.

      I also suspect that some less than perfectly legal stuff is going on as well.

  21. EA*

    So on the theme of profanity.

    My work blocks all gmail/yahoo. I know my boss uses her work email to email her husband (when she trained me I saw) I occasionally email my husband on my work email. Like once every few weeks, mostly bc gmail is blocked. I emailed him yesterday (my email was not inappropriate) and he responded with profanity. A lot of f words. He works in a more lenient industry and apparently lacks common sense.

    My work filtered out the email and I never got it. I assume it got filtered out as spam due to the profanity. One time I emailed myself a link and never got it, then weeks later I got an email quarantine report.

    My bosses are all very profane, so I am not afraid of getting in trouble if they are contacted. Obviously told my husband to cut it out. What will IT do with this? Is it the system that filters, or is it something more like internet monitoring?

    1. Lumen*

      It’s most likely an algorithm scanning the emails, but at work, always assume everything you do on the internet is being monitored in some fashion.

      Also, this is ridiculous. Not you; this rule.

    2. LKW*

      They are unlikely to do anything. Using profanity and having someone write you an email that contains profanity shouldn’t be a big deal. The email was likely spammed due to an unknown address than the content.

      Email filters are more for security & protection than scouring for inappropriate content. Obviously there are exceptions but most of the filters are to protect the system from malware.

    3. KayEss*

      It’s unlikely IT is paying attention on that level or cares at all, unless you have such an outrageously high volume of flagged emails as to indicate that your account has been compromised in some way. In that case they’re probably looking for large numbers of sent emails being blocked/returned, because that would suggest your account has been appropriated to send spam.

      If you find your filter settings to be too restrictive, it’s possible that you can adjust them in whatever filter/quarantine system is being used. If that’s possible and your IT people are reasonable, they should be able to help you with that so that links you email yourself don’t vanish.

    4. Thlayli*

      My old job used to quarantine everything with any swearwords in it. Or anything that looked like spam. It was an algorithm and it was really annoying. Tell ur DH to use 5 for c in the f-word and so on otherwise you won’t get the mail!

      1. Observer*

        No, that’s MORE likely to trigger a good filter. They are “trained” to look for that kind of stuff.

    5. Science!*

      My work email apparently has profanity filters. I didn’t know about this (I’m very formal in email) but I heard a funny story about when the filters were first introduced:

      my co-worker was trying to email to an outside collaborator about some work they were doing together and it didn’t go through because one of the words triggered the filter. The word he used? Cleavage…because he was studying early cellular development when cells are undergoing cleavage events! So a perfectly legitimate word used in the scientific community but the people who made the filter didn’t think about it that way.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        That happened to my sister, only it censored her name! Our last name contains letters that, on their own, are a slur against lesbians which apparently triggered the filter – she couldn’t send any emails for like a week until they fixed it!

      3. Middle School Teacher*

        We had to get our firewall relaxed (? I guess… I don’t know the word, but make it less strong) because any time someone looked up assessment, we got blocked :/ Ass in any word got blocked.

      4. This Daydreamer*

        There’s a website that I spend a lot of time on that filters profanity (adds an a to the word) and slurs, often in ways that are hilarious. Sometimes deliberately – the n word becomes “Attractive and successful African American”. I’m sure there were some bigots who were infuriated.

        Sometimes it’s not so deliberate. My favorite example was in a conversation about bathroom habits. One man was trying to explain that, because he was male, “it’s hit or miss”. The filter turned the full sentence into “Well, I’m a guy so it’ shiat or miss”.

    6. MLB*

      There’s most likely a program looking for certain words or phrases to filter out inappropriate emails. I wouldn’t worry too much about it, but realize that everything you do with company email is monitored in some way, as well as internet usage. But in most cases, monitoring this 24/7 for all employees is not something a company can do and will only be used in a case where they’re looking for a reason to get rid of an employee.

      1. Observer*

        Actually, it’s generally not used for that, either. Not efficient. One thing a lot of these filters are used for is just to cut down on the garbage. Ask your your IT people, but the stats I’ve seen (on our system and in general) is that for many people something like 80+% of email coming is spam. So, even if no one ever looks at the filter, if it does a halfway decent job, the people who are the highest recipients of spam are having a few boatloads of trash cleared away for them, before they even get to see it. It also means a MUCH lower load on the email servers, because the filter is before the server. And we only have to worry about the possibility of retention for stuff that actually hits our servers.

        Security conscious companies that are proactive also look for patterns that indicate a problem, or specific signs of an attack.

        What no one is doing is sitting a looking at every email and getting bent out of shape because there is too much profanity in an incoming email. No one has the time for that.

    7. London Grammar*

      I have the Gmail app on my personal iPhone, so I use that if I need to e-mail friends and family when I am at work. It works really well and I don’t have to worry about work filtering my personal e-mails.

      I doubt that IT will do anything about this. I expect the e-mail may have been flagged by a spam filter.

  22. tree on a hill*

    I started my training for my new job last week. I worked 8 days in a row, and put in 91 hours in those 8 days (I worked 40 hours Friday to Sunday alone). My trainer was nice, but would not work one minute more than he had to, so every day he was leaving me with a ton of stuff to figure out and then every morning I got to come in and be yelled at for all my mistakes, and then trying to fix them while desperately trying to keep up with that days work. I’m exhausted, completely demoralized and wishing I would have gone part time instead of full time (I would have been financially able to do so). I was off yesterday and am off today and am still mentally and physically exhausted. I know (hope) that it will slowly get better from here. Anyone have any advice for grinding through the first months when you start a job that is extremely demanding and stressful?

    1. rosenstock*

      the hours sound a lot like my job, lol. i try to completely turn off when i’m not at work (unless i’m on call or something). 30 to 60 minutes of total zone out time when i get home. for me i’ll watch something dumb on tv or play animal crossing. after that hour or so of being zonked out i actually perk up and am ready to focus on non-work stuff. hope that helps!

    2. WellRed*

      Were you expected to put in 91 hours of training in that time period? I mean, if you are being trained, by a trainer who OF COURSE wouldn’t work one minute more (why should he), it seems you shouldn’t have had to work without him. Or, did you place that expectation on yourself. Either way, it doesn’t sound good.

      1. tree on a hill*

        I was scheduled 80 hours, which is a schedule I accepted, because it gives me 8 days on and 6 days off rather than having random days off scattered throughout my week. It is also expected you work overtime if needed, which I also understood going in to this, however under company policy I could have waited until the next day to do these specific tasks. But I was specifically told by my trainer that I was NOT allowed to leave until all the work for that day was done.

        I assumed this was normal when one was training, but I had 2 different people come up to me my last two days who sympathized and said this was not normal, my trainer should not have 1.assigned me all this work and 2.left me to finish it alone and that I should complain. Which I could, but this is an industry known for long stressful hours and since I am brand new to it I don’t have a feel for what I can complain about. I don’t want to be known as the person who couldn’t take the pressure and was whining in her first week, especially since I desperately want to make it in this industry.

        1. New Offer*

          Maybe phrase it in a way that you accept that the position requires overtime work and are committed to doing so when necessary but that you’re concerned you are not being trained to be successful in the role, given that you’re being required to do untrained work so early on.

          1. tree on a hill*

            That’s a really good way to word it! Thankfully I’ve been officially “cut loose” from my trainer so now if I have questions or concerns I can go straight to the supervisor on duty (and all the ones I’ve met so far have been amazing and very much “hey you are brand new we have all been there if you have ANY questions please call us that is why we are here”). Right now I’m just trying to get over the exhaustion and the stress to get prepped for next week because I am really having a hard time wanting to go back. I actually sat down yesterday morning alone in my home and bawled my eyes out, partly from relief that the week was over and partly from just feeling so overwhelmed. I really need to get my confidence back because after the past week I feel like I am utterly incapable of doing this job, and I really want it so it’s not like I can just quit. I’ve worked too hard to get here.

        2. TheCupcakeCounter*

          Is your trainer your manager? If not bring it up to him/her asking about the right way to do this. Along the lines of “I attempted to finish some tasks last week per direction of my trainer but since I wasn’t fully up to speed it took me longer and there were some errors. That obviously became an issue the next day so I am curious if it would be better to wait until my trainer is back vs attempting to do them on my own until I am more familiar with the process.” That way it might come across less compainy and more “what is best for the company?”.

          1. tree on a hill*

            Ooh, also a good idea. I was really afraid to speak up because I honestly thought that this was normal and expected of me, and I didn’t want to be seen as that “special snowflake who can’t handle it”. This is an industry where you are expected to be on your own most of the time, and you can call a supervisor if you need one, but mostly are expected to be self reliant. Unfortunately it really wasn’t until the end of my week that I was talking to a co-worker and she was appalled that I was getting trained this way. I actually felt better after this because before she said that it wasn’t normal I thought it was my fault I was so stressed and frustrated and felt that I was so far behind where I needed to be. I did tell my supervisor that I felt completely overwhelmed with all the new things I was learning at once and he was completely sympathetic and told me to just hang in there. I think if I can get through this initial bump and learning period I’m really going to like this job. I keep telling people I just want it to be 6 months in the future when I know what I’m doing and aren’t so stressed out.

    3. Bea*

      The long hours are fine. Trying to figure things out is a good skill to readily develop. Being yelled at unless this industry means life or death is absolute bullshht. Complain that you weren’t trained properly and when TRYING to complete tasks, mistakes were treated poorly. Yelling is not ever acceptable unless something is about to hit you and they’re screaming to get out the way.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Exactly. This situation sounds incredibly…unhealthy. I don’t know what this industry is or why you really want to be in it at all, but if you can, I’d either ask for a new trainer or start looking for something else within said industry. No grown adult should be yelled at in the workplace by other grown adults they work with unless, like stated above, it’s a life or death situation. This is too much.

  23. rosenstock*

    still having the same trainee probs i posted about a few weeks ago… it’s like, once things get the slightest bit stressful she goes to pieces. she just skips over huge steps in procedure even though we have a checklist for this stuff that i encourage her to check each time. also she asks me questions that could be answered in a 2 minute google search. but i don’t want to be mean and say “go figure it out” especially since i DO want people to feel comfortable asking me questions, just not silly ones. i also recently found out she is a gossip – i told her something about boss X to make it easier for her to work with him (i really like him but it’s just that he leaves stuff til the last minute, nothing bad, and it’s true), and she’s been telling people what i said and i think it may have gotten back to him! he doesn’t care at all, but how embarrassing for both of us, ugh!

    1. Lumen*

      It’s perfectly fair to tell someone you’re training “Okay, remember what I suggested when we went over this last week? Your next step is to…” and honestly, let her fill in the blank. If she can’t, she needs to own that. Maybe talk to her about what is getting in her way. Is she extremely forgetful? Is there a learning disability at play? Is she just really really nervous about getting it wrong, so she’s not stepping up and figuring things out? Figure out what she believes her obstacle is, and then ask her to suggest ways she might work around them. The onus is on her to a) explain what her problem is and b) find a way to overcome it, but she may be able to do that once she knows that you’re on her team and are willing to offer her resources in implementing her new plan.

      As for gossip: I just wouldn’t disclose to her again. If her discretion comes up again I’d address it, but personally I just wouldn’t share any such information with her.

      1. rosenstock*

        thank you, this is incredibly helpful. i think she’s just nervous. which i totally understand since i have a diagnosed anxiety disorder lol. i think i could/should be doing more to address her anxiety though. thanks!

        1. LKW*

          Her nerves are not yours to manage. You’ve given her numerous tools. You have an open door policy. I have said to you before (and I’m repeating it now): She may not be cut out for the position.

          I have a cousin who studied and trained to be a court stenographer. During all of her practice -spot on. During tests – crumbled. Because the stress was too much. She would freeze and you can’t stop a court room so that the stenographer can collect themselves.

          Sometimes people just aren’t cut out for a job. This may be the situation. It’s not your fault. It’s not her fault. Sometimes that’s just the way things are.

        2. Observer*

          You cannot and should not try to do more about her anxiety. It’s possible that if she tells you that she actually has anxiety and would benefit from x, y and z, that you could accommodate her, depending on what she’s asking for. And, sure you should try to accommodate whatever is practical. But at this point, it’s on her to manage her anxiety and ask for whatever help she needs.

    2. Madeleine Matilda*

      Is there a middle ground between “google it” and giving her the answer to the question? If she says, “rosenstock, I need to X and I can’t figure it out.” perhaps you could ask here what she thinks she should do and work with her through the steps so she does them with your guidance.

    3. Odyssea*

      I feel you, because we had a new employee who had the same issues with procedure – even though we have excellent documentation for our processes, if she was left on her own, she would just start doing steps in any random order until she messed everything up. Unfortunately, I don’t have much advice because we ended up letting her go at the end of the probation period. I don’t know why some people choose to self-sabotage like that! She wasn’t expected to have it memorized, just to follow the steps even if it took a while. It was so frustrating. Keep documenting the issues you are having and the steps you are taking to try and rectify – it might help in the long run.

    4. Observer*

      It’s not mean to tell someone to figure it out, if it’s something that she really should be able to figure out. It’s part of her training.

      Also, you need to do more than encourage her to check the check list. It stinks, and it’s a black mark against her, but you need her to start actually checking off the check list with a data and time stamp as each thing gets checked off. So, when she says “I finished the Osborne order” you need to ask her for the check list which would look like:

      Got the Order 2/22 3:00pm
      Confirmed with Nancy 3:30
      Ordered the required parts 5:00
      Finished the drawings 2/23 10:15

      Etc.

      She’s not going to like that, and it feels really micro-managey, but she’s dropping large parts of the process even when you’ve really tried to break it down for her. The only way this can be salvaged – or you can see that it cannot be salvaged – is to essentially force her into making sure that she actually checks every box.

      The goal here is not to manage her this way for the long term. But for her to really get the hand of the process and to get to a point where she can be trusted to do this without having to give you this kind of breakdown.

    5. AcademiaNut*

      I think you might need to be less concerned with being kind and sensitive, and more with being clear and firm – tell, don’t encourage, because the more gentle approach is not working.

      So you need to tell her “in this job, it’s important to be able to figure basic stuff out on your own. So before you come to me with a question, I need you to google and see if you can find an answer.” And when she comes to you and says she couldn’t find it, ask what she searched for. Then give her a better search term, and let her do the google herself.

      You need to tell her “I need you to follow this checklist exactly, every time.” And provide her with a checklist with boxes to tick off that she needs to return to you after finishing the job. If she can’t do that, then you physically stand next to her while she does the job and ticks off the checklist, item by item. If she can’t do the checklist after that, she probably needs to be let go.

      If she falls to pieces, you can give her a moment to collect herself, but you pick up where you left off and keep going.

      Be firm and calm when doing this. Being too gentle could easily hurt her in the long run – she may well not pick up on the fact that her performance is so bad that if she were an employee, she’d be fired, until you get so frustrated that she is fired.

      And honestly, the anxiety is not your thing to address. For one thing, it’s armchair diagnosing – you’re building up a story where she’s a potentially good employee who is just anxious, and you have no idea if it’s true. For another, it’s not something you can fix. You might have one conversation where you tell her that this level of mistakes is not acceptable in this job, and suggest that she might need to seek outside help dealing with it – I’m not sure quite how you’d word it, though.

      And even if she did have an official diagnosis of something, if she can’t do the basic job tasks with appropriate accommodation (like a detailed checklist), then she isn’t able to do the job.

  24. Hedgehog*

    Does anyone have any advice about moving on to a different job after struggling with burn out (and internally tying their job to their identity)? I’ve been trying really hard to manage my mental health at work after having to go on medical leave a few months ago and have slowly come to the conclusion that direct service work with traumatized people is not the right fit for me anymore. So I know I need to move on- I’m just really struggling with dealing with feelings of self-worth and self-doubt as I search for something new. I’d love to hear other people’s advice about how they recovered/moved on after being in a bad place mentally and career-wise!

    1. Trillion*

      I have no advice, just commiseration because I struggle very much with the same things.

      I’ve promised myself when I get a new job (actively searching now!) that I’ll start going to weekly or monthly therapy with at least one of the goals being “How do I get over wanting to quit my job once it becomes more challenging?”

    2. TheCupcakeCounter*

      I would try to figure out a career adjacent to what you are doing so that your experience is valued and you don’t feel you are abandoning something you worked for. Maybe admin/management for a similar place where you can support the people who work in your former role to take some of the load off them? Also try to build in a little break before starting the new job and do some stuff that you know if beneficial for you (mini-vaca, time with family, netflix and chill, etc…).

      1. Betsy*

        That’s what I’m doing too. I’m feeling exhausted after the last year, having taken on a job that wasn’t what I expected.
        I’m moving to a more research/admin based role in the same industry, rather than a people-facing one.

        I know a lot of social workers and people who work with traumatised people, and I know that most people move on eventually- some I’ve known have moved into social policy roles or academia. It sounds like a tough gig! Even one of the toughest people I know moved on after about a decade in the industry.

    3. Babayaga*

      Yes, this is me. I was working in what was my dream job- but the people and environment were so intolerable + depression + anxiety = total, absolute, irretrievable burnout. I tried and tried to not let it ruin the job for me, but in the end it did. Maybe it won’t be forever, but frankly I think it will be. I was in a service role at a university and while there are certainly great faculty members, the structure of academia is just stacked against the lowly staff member. No matter how accomplished we are in our own right.

      Since I knew I didn’t really want to continue on that exact career path, there was a program that if you were in good standing you could work in another department for a few hours a week and help on a project. I leveraged the training I got into applying for an entry level position in that field at another university. Again, yes, it’s another uni. But I’m now in a career that I have some foundation in, actually feel enthused about, and the environment here is COMPLETELY different.

      The only thing that I’m struggling with is literal PTSD from the former job. I worry that it damaged me so much that it will prevent me from growing in this job. But I’m working on it. Therapy has helped.

    4. Bea*

      Yes. I worked for over a decade at a place that was my entire life and tied to my youth. I watched it slip out if control and start financial death spiral and my boss was dealing with rapidly declining health (he developed Dementia so declining health is an understatement).

      I had to leave. Detach from what I thought was all I would ever have. And how do you explain all that to a new employer?

      After shifting and getting out into the world looking for a new job, it lifted. I had a healthy work life balance.

      Then 2 yrs later we relocated. I found myself in a job that was exploiting their knowledge of my loyalty and willingness to fight for my employer. They even talked to my former bosses wife who took over-ish from the outside at least who sang my praises and all that jazz.

      I found leaving that hellhole easier given my last experience and thankfully my hatred for them as humans helped.

      The escape is the hardest but you will be rejuvenated and alive again when you’re free. You are more than just your job. As a workaholic, that was the hardest to come to terms with. You are important and worth taking care of. You will find another job that won’t cause you all these burnt out feelings.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      This sounds pretty normal for people in human services. Once the burn out hits, it’s over.

      Think of it this way, we cannot give and give and give. What happens is we drain everything out of ourselves in the process. Picture a water faucet and a sink. The water only flows one way, right? We never expect the water to go back up into the faucet. But people are different, we have to recharge and replace what gets drained out of us. And this is where you are (and I was) we have to spend the time putting good things in to our bodies and our minds. So we are talking good self care, regular rest, fruits and veggies, hydration, perhaps some walks a few times a week.
      Walks are great, they help us to reconnect with the immediate world around us. Not only is walking good for the body, it’s good for the mind. If walking is too hard, ask a friend to join you.
      Another good thing to look at is what are you reading or watching. Try more often than not try to read/watch things that are uplifting. I liked to read Chicken Soup books because it was candy for my brain.
      Develop other aspects to your life so that your job is only one aspect of your identity. You can be Hedgehog who coordinates the annual family picnic, organizes the food drive in the apartment complex every Christmas, started a book group at the library and oh, by the way, also does X for a living. It takes time to build something like this so allow time for your version of these things to fall together.
      Right now focus on getting your core built up. You are doing a life reset, you can frame it that way. It’s okay to say, “I want something else and I am going to slowly and carefully build a new life for me.”

    6. banana&tanger*

      Program management. I was deeply committed to direct service and was disappointed with myself. Now I work for a funding agency, overseeing the types of programs I used to work in. The fact that I’ve done the work makes me better at it.

    7. Slartibartfast*

      Work in progress on that front. I’m taking a few classes for a new certification, we’ll see wherr it takes me. Similar work, broader range of companies hiring.

    8. Jiya*

      Give it time. Know that the feelings you’re having don’t have to be permanent – they aren’t you, they’re just a place where you are right now. If you can afford a counselor or therapist, they might be able to give you the outside perspective you need. If not (or even if you can), find unrelated places where your competence can go to work. Volunteer. Take an easy, dumb temp job that you can definitely handle. Get your feet under you.

      When I had to move on from direct service work it took me well over a year to really get over it, but it did happen, and I’m not special. I know you can get there too. :)

  25. PoniezRUs*

    I need some advice on how to cope in this job until November 2018. I work in a dysfunctional organization. It has made me realize that I am talented and worth more than this. Please tell me what I can do to focus on my end goal. This job pays well and it is enabling me to travel and pay down debt.
    1. My boss is about as ineffective at managing behavior as one can be. He ignores arguments between my teammates the whole office can hear and generally stays out of situations where he could do some damage control. He also lets his own reports get steamrolled by other managers without intervening. He is very much out for himself. His managers are happy with him and that is all that matters. He is not all bad though. He can be nice sometimes.
    2. My teammate who is one level above me likes to manage me. I have told him to back off in person and via IM. He says he is looking out for me because he thinks I have so much potential and deserve better opportunities. Frankly, it is not his concern. He is not my boss and at this point I do not value his opinion. He also is hell bent on becoming a manager because he believes he can turn this ship around, so to speak. He thinks our boss is ineffective. While this may be true, I have told him our boss is not his obstacle and he needs to respect him and not try to undermine him with all his side projects and schemes.
    3. Day to day I am between bored and overwhelmed. Some days ae super busy, which I like, and other days like today I am sad to be sitting here with little to occupy myself with. I am studying for the GMAT, am active in my community, and play sports. My life is more than just this job but 8-10 hours a day in a miserable place is wearing on me. I am becoming numb and drown out the noise with music. I avoid my boss and focus on doing well at my own stuff. If my bossy coworker does get promoted, I do not know if I can make it until November. That month is important because I need a letter or recommendation from one of the higher ups here, I have about 3 trips planned, and I need to stay here at least two years to avoid looking like a job hopper.

    HELP

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      There is a psychological rule that you can tolerate anything for 3 months. Longer that that and it’s your life. Not that what you’re proposing is undoable, just have that in mind that come August, this might get a lot easier because the end date will feel much more in sight. If there’s any way to fit in some rewards to look forward to around May and August, that might help.

      The three things you list–studying for an exam, community connections, sports–are all the right things: something outside of work that gives your life meaning. Try to put your “why am I doing this” focus there–you are paying down debt at this miserable job, which connects to your future goals.

    2. Lala*

      Sounds like you just have to keep reminding yourself that you have a end point to all of this. You can survive until November. You absolutely can! It’s only a few months away.

      I would try as much as possible to just ignore the coworker trying to manage you–it’s not his job to be your boss, he’s not your boss, so you don’t actually have to listen to him/do what he says.
      Accept that your boss is not going to change–that can be very freeing sometimes.

      On the days that are super boring, try to find things you can do that will make you a better job candidate/employee/human when you leave in November–are there articles you should be reading? Videos/Tutorials you could be watching? Skills you could be learning (tech programs, etc.)? Prep for GMAT that could justifiably be something related to work? Projects you could give yourself? At the very least, are there procedures you do that aren’t documented–could you start slowly doing whatever prep that might be useful to whoever might inherit your job when you leave in November?

    3. LKW*

      Who cares if you job hop? If you’re staying because of the trips – ok. That’s fine. But unless you’ve had three jobs in a year (like I did) – I ‘m not getting the issue about job hopping.

    4. DDJ*

      1. Your boss is ineffective as a manager and just generally sucks. That doesn’t mean he’s a bad person, just that he’s a bad manager. It’s just…going to suck. Try to focus more on yourself and less on what’s happening to his other reports. It’s not your job to manage him or his reports, and if they’re unhappy, then they’ve got to do something about it or confront your manager. That’s not on you to do.

      2. When he tries to manage you: “Thanks for your input, but I really need to get back to this.” That’s all. Don’t tell him you agree or disagree, just “Thanks for your input, but I really need to get back to this.” When he’s talking badly about your manager, just say “It’s not constructive to keep going over the same points, and it’s creating a really negative atmosphere. I’m going to get back to work.”

      3. If your coworker does end up getting promoted, just keep thinking, “My coworker (or boss, or both!) sucks and isn’t going to change.” You can make it until November. You might have to detach a little bit. But it sounds like you have a lot of really enriching things going on outside of work, so just focus on those things. This job is just a paycheque and an opportunity to gain skills that will take you to something better. Plus, it’s helping you to meet goals like travel and pay down debt. That’s great! Maybe make yourself one of those thermometers with your financial goals on it, and every week, fill in the amount of your pay that you’re contributing to those things. Then you can see the real impact that sticking with it is having for you. It’s just a step on the path to your end goals.

      Good luck. 9 months isn’t so bad! And the closer you get, the more relieved you’ll feel. And maybe if you start job-hunting around September (to make sure you have enough time to get something lined up), it will help make the fact that you’re moving on…more real.

      1. Anecdata*

        Oof. What helped for me was figuring out a financial plan where I /could/ leave if I really needed to. I was in a similar position, where I had a date I wanted to make it to (and knew I would be leaving then, for grad school); but when it was a year out, it felt interminable & impossible. Giving myself permission to leave if I really needed to actually made it easier to say – it helped me reset my mindset from “I’m stuck here for 12 MORE MONTHS” to “I could implement Plan Leave Now, or I can stay a while longer. The pros of leaving are xyz; the pros of staying are: having a longer stint on my resume, getting experience in abc project, having x more $ saved for grad school, etc. What do I want to do?”. It felt more like a choice.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Looking back on my life many things I thought I had to do, I actually did not have to do. I am a big fan of self checks. Are you sure you must stay there until November?

      I will assume the answer is yes and I am going to talk about staying there.

      Buy or make a calendar journal that covers from now until November.

      Take each month and write goals for each month. If possible break the monthly goals down into weekly goals.
      Yes, I am saying fill up your time. One good way to make time fly is to set a number of personal goals. How are your teeth? Now might be a great time for that dentist appointment. (My teeth are having problems that is why I think of this specific example.)

      For me, I would take the calendar /journal start in November and work back. So what do I want November to look like? Give notice, start new job. So how soon do I start looking for a new job?
      What will I need in place by November that I do not have now?
      You are going to be interviewing, do you have something to wear that makes you comfortable with how you look?
      Do you own a car and if yes is it running reliably? You will need your car for those interviews.
      You see the overall idea. If you want a new job in 9 months get involved with the nuts and bolts of that process.

      I have mentioned before but it fits here, decide that you now work for your resume not your boss. You want to do things that look great written out on a resume. The heck with the absentee boss and the overbearing coworker, put them in the background like a watermark because your resume and your new job in 9 months are the important things to you now. One thing I have done to con myself is to tell myself that every place has “personalities”, I can try to develop new skills for dealing with old problems stemming from “personality”. This also can be helpful for the next job, because it makes the new cohorts look SO MUCH easier to work with.

  26. Foreign Octopus*

    I think I just need some common sense knocked into me.

    For the last four months of last year, I had a student who would come to me for two hours a day, three days a week and I thought that he was happy with the lessons. He certainly never complained. Our last lesson together was in the last week of December when I wished him a happy new year etc, etc. He said he’d book again in January. It’s now February and he hasn’t booked again although I know he’s had lessons with other teachers.

    I guess I’m just a little put out that he didn’t say goodbye, or that he was planning to change teachers (all my students are welcome to do that because I offer conversational classes, not grammar, which is what some want after a certain period of time). I think I would have liked a clean ending to our working relationship rather than him just ghosting on me after nearly 100 lessons.

    (I should note that my teaching schedule is now full so fitting him in would be difficult and it’s not about the money but rather the fact that he just disappeared that I’m struggling with.)

    Can someone beat me over the head with sensible advice please?

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      This sucks, but ultimately you had a professional relationship, not a personal one, so you shouldn’t take it personally. It certainly would have been more polite for him to tell you he wasn’t coming back, but (forgive me if I’m assuming wrong) he’s just a kid, so you can’t expect too much. I’m 24, and I still struggle with stuff like this! I could totally see myself not knowing how to say something directly, telling myself I’d email later, and then chickening out.

      1. Foreign Octopus*

        I know it was professional, it was just a really fun professional relationship and it sucks a little bit.

        In regards to his age, he’s actually fifty and has a very good job in his home country so I kind of expected a little bit of professional courtesy in ending it but hey-ho. These things happen, and it has left the door open for other opportunities, which is great.

    2. Colette*

      It’s not about you. He probably thought about his lessons over the holidays and decided he wanted another teacher (because he wanted grammar, because he wanted another approach, because his schedule is changing and doesn’t mesh with yours anymore – it doesn’t matter why). Once he’s made that decision, he’s not going to book a session with you to tell you, and there’s likely not a good way to let you know without booking a session. (Maybe there is, but this is also the kind of thing that people don’t like saying, so it’s possible he just didn’t do it.)

      It’s business, it’s not personal. He had no commitment to keep coming back, and you’re not entitled to end things the way you want to. That’s just how it goes.

      1. Anony*

        I was thinking the same thing. It is entirely possible that he thought he would be booking more lessons but then either reevaluated what he needed to work on, changed his course selection or money/time got tight and he had to prioritize which classes to take. He may have either thought that wouldn’t want to hear from him just to say goodbye or felt awkward telling you.

      2. Foreign Octopus*

        I know he had no commitment. I actually tell my students that I understand their needs change over time, which is exactly how it should be. Maybe Anony is right and he felt awkward about it.

    3. Lumen*

      I’m having a total ‘kids these days’ moment where I wish I had a cane to shake at The Youths. I really have seen a generational shift here… it was bad enough with people my age, but it seems to be getting worse. The anxiety over telling someone you are ending a relationship (whether personal or professional) seems to be so intense that the answer is “manners? what are those?”

      It was rude, but remember that this wasn’t about you. This was about your student. They made a bad choice and over time, hopefully they will learn that this sort of behavior makes them look bad to others (and hurts people’s feelings). You, however, are an adult who recognizes that this was really disappointing behavior. Not malicious, just a bummer. You have the experience and understanding to take this is in stride. Tell yourself that a few dozen times and maybe it’ll start to sting less. :)

      1. Colette*

        I don’t agree that it was rude. It would have been nice to let her know, but it’s not required. If I decide to not go back to a doctor or hairdresser or clothing store or restaurant, I just have to not go back (and cancel any outstanding appointments) – I don’t need to announce I won’t be back

        1. Foreign Octopus*

          Lumen and Colette – he’s actually in his fifties, which is kind of why I expected more of a response than just radio silence.

          I suppose I just need to start getting used to losing long-term students, it’s just that every time a long-term student has ended lessons with me, it’s always been a natural end. They’ve taken the exams they were preparing for, they’ve done what we set out to do, etc. This is the first time I’ve had one just no show so it’s a little jarring.

          1. Betsy*

            I’m afraid I did this recently to a language teacher. :( I always meant to write an email, but ended up ghosting out of guilt. I went on a holiday for a few weeks and just didn’t contact him again. One main reason was that I was working very long hours and just wanted one day a week with no commitments at all. The other reason was that the classes just followed worksheets exactly, and that was fun sometimes, but not always. Apologies on behalf of ghosters, in general.

    4. Valancy*

      I don’t know how long you’ve been teaching, but this is soooooo normal with adult students that unfortunately you’ll have to get used to it. Students come and go, and it sounds like you teach ESL in which case, the lives of your students can be subject to unexpected change. I also think sometimes it doesn’t even occur to people that you might be waiting to hear from them. I’ve had students disappear and then reappear more than a year later asking for more lessons, without any explanation!

      I know it’s easy to say don’t take it personally, but it probably has nothing to do with you or your teaching skills. But if you might find it useful to sit down and write out a self-reflection on his lessons to see what you think was working and what wasn’t, if you haven’t done that already.

      1. Foreign Octopus*

        I’ve been teaching for nearly two years but the first year was teaching at a language academy where my students were mainly children.

        I like your idea of the self-reflection. I think I let him dominate the conversation too much, if that makes sense. We would start talking and just see where the conversation took us and maybe it got a little repetitive for him. I’ve already changed that with my other students, becoming a bit more focused.

        Thanks for the tip.

    5. Anita-ita*

      I think he should have let you know. I take Spanish lessons online several times a week and have been with the same teacher for quite some time. If I needed to stop taking lessons or take a break, I would let him know.

      On the flip side, if I were the one giving lessons and someone did this to me I would be hurt and find it shitty but ultimately move on. Maybe it’s an uncomfortable conversation that person didn’t want to have, which is more of a fault on their part that they would rather ghost than be an adult and send a quick email.

      1. Foreign Octopus*

        I do the same with my Spanish teacher – I sent both of my teachers a note when I decided to go in a different direction and that was only after five lessons with each of them. It feels a bit shitty and I just wish it had been handled differently.

        1. Anita-ita*

          Sorry you’re having to go through that! I feel like I have become friends with my teacher and I’ve only had 33 lessons with him, after 100 I would feel like besties! haha. But I’m also a very personable and outgoing person.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          This is your first person that you have lost in this manner? You could just decide to ease up on you. And you could think about what you want to do differently.

          Perhaps you can give them surveys to fill out. Perhaps you can set up lessons for a time frame and when the time frame is up you can ask them if they wish to continue for another set time frame. These types of things would give you more opportunities for inputs.

          I am thinking with him being in his 50s he probably had life stuff going on. There might have been a sudden illness in his family or something like that. Not trying to wish bad things on him, but this is how life goes with throwing curve balls at us. I have ghosted on people because I suddenly have someone in ICU and it’s years before I come up for air. I tried to remember to contact people, but I know I missed people. You are saying you enjoyed the lessons, I think it is safe to assume he did also.

      2. Courageous cat*

        Iiii mean they’re paying for a service, it’s not like you have a personal relationship. I don’t think it’s un-adult to stop paying and going without an explanation – they don’t owe anyone anything.

    6. Blue Eagle*

      I left two different instructors because I wasn’t happy with how things were going. In both cases I chickened out and said my work schedule had changed and wouldn’t be able to continue at that time – but, of course, never went back.

      Someone who is paying you for a service is not required to tell you that they don’t like how it is going. Here is my question for you – – you mentioned that you thought it was going great, but have you ever asked for feedback from the person? Had I been asked for feedback by these people I would have offered it, but it is difficult to volunteer feedback that you don’t like something because most people don’t want negative feedback and would say – “if you don’t like how I’m doing it, go somewhere else”.

      So, in the future, consider asking for feedback on a periodic basis and it may result in less ghosting.

    7. Kuododi*

      Oh my dear….losing clients is an occupational hazard particularly in private practice. All one can do is call to follow up, talk with them about what is going on, if they are still not wanting to come back then understand it is not about you. You know you provide a quality service…. however, you are not going to be able to be all things to all people. Best wishes!!!!

    8. Courageous cat*

      I much prefer to Irish Goodbye it when I have some sort of ongoing relationship with someone because it’s just sooooo much easier not to have to explain myself or do goodbyes. Both of those things are honestly the worst sometimes. I wouldn’t take it personally, there is really no good way to do that, especially if you’re younger and not really used to doing things like it.

  27. Paranoid*

    Is there anyway to ask in an interview how they handle it if you make a mistake or if there is a problem? I’ve worked in intense places where you get screamed at if you make a mistake, so I’m wondering how you ask how they approach things. I’m just worried that they’ll think that you can’t handle tasks or make too many mistakes, so is it best not to bring it up? (Would asking about their management style cover it?)

    1. Mananana*

      Few interviewers are going to admit to screaming at employees for making a mistake, and asking about how they handle mistakes may come off as weird. You can certainly ask about management style, but, again, they’ll probably not come right out and admit to verbally berating staff.

      Here’s my question to you: is your field a high-pressure one where screaming at folks is normal? Or have you just had the misfortune of working with jerks? Because I’ve been working since I was 16 (now 52), and have never worked where screaming was the norm.

      1. Paranoid*

        A bit of both? One was a bad job, though the manager DID say during the interview that if you can’t handle yelling, then the job wasn’t for you. The other one was in a high-pressure company.

      2. Betsy*

        I would say that it’s pretty much the norm in hospitality. Or at least from places I worked when I was younger and from things others have told me. Should really be called hostility. :P

    2. Lumen*

      I would ask specifically something like “How do you handle coaching and correction?” I don’t think they expect that you will be 100% perfect all the time from the moment you step in the door; coaching and correcting employees is part of managing them, and I think it’s wise to find out if you and your new manager are going to mesh in this regard. If their coaching style is a casual one-sentence thing as they pass your desk and you respond best to 1:1 chats where you can ask questions, you may both need to adjust in order to work well together. I think it’s a fair question.

      However: no one is going to admit that they scream at employees. They might, however, give body language signals or make jokes about how they’re an ‘intense’ workplace, and that’ll give you a bit of a red flag.

      1. Wolfram alpha*

        In addition to lumens question – be sure to pay attention to office moral and onterview a co-worker or the whole team if you can.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        That’s a good question. People who don’t know how to handle coaching and correction in a professional manner will not be able to answer it.

    3. Irene Adler*

      To the prospective boss:

      “How do you deliver criticism?”
      “How do you deliver feedback” or “What types of feedback do you give to your reports?”
      “How is [employee] success measured here?”
      “What form does communication take between boss and report?”

      1. zora*

        These are perfectly appropriate questions to ask in an interview. But then, the key is to read between the lines. Someone who screams at people isn’t going to admit that out loud, but they also won’t give a very convincing answer. They might try to be vague, or they might try to make a joke like the person above said.

        However, if someone gives a good, detailed explanation of their reasonable communication practices, you can be pretty sure they are a good boss. If they avoid the question, run away run away!!!

        1. Irene Adler*

          True.

          When I asked one prospective boss “How do you support your reports?”
          the response was: “No one can yell at you except me- just kidding!” But then she didn’t provide any further response.
          Nuff said.

    4. MMM*

      I’ve asked about how feedback is handled, both formally and informally. The answer usually covers frequency of formal performance reviews, and gives some insight into the manager’s personal preference for correcting/giving ongoing feedback (which obviously works best if you are interviewing with the person who will be your manager).

    5. Bea*

      I straight out say I don’t respond well to explosive confrontations and screaming isn’t tolerated. Every boss I’ve had after they heard that in an interview was appalled that I’ve ever dealt with that behavior and make a point to approach me in a calm manner.

      You want to put them on warning here. What’s the worst that happens? An abusive ass of a boss decides to not hire you because he’s a screaming putz?! Good. You don’t want that boss!!! Nobody reasonable is turned off by you explaining you’ve been in stressful situations and that’s cool but you do not accept pisspoor behavior when errors pop up.

  28. Mary mary*

    “She may not look it, but she’s tough” I’ve had this phrase said about me in two workplaces now. What’s the point? I’m quite shy and quiet, but I do socialize. I don’t understand- why do people say this? What are they trying to prove?

    1. Andy*

      Just throwing this out there, but it seems like a compliment. A neg compliment, but still? It’s like, “you’re going to assume that she’s a pushover but that would be a mistake.”
      So, on the one hand they’re saying you look easily manipulable (or women are/look manipulable) but THIS woman is NOT (even tho for realz the wimmins be easy to push around regs)
      It’s a hot take on ‘one of the good ones’, with a modern hashtag metoo twist.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I think they’re well-intentioned but extremely misguided. They mean it to be a (back-handed?) compliment, but it’s really kind of undermining. Kind of hard to deal with this, because if you confront it directly, they’ll probably brush it off as no big deal or your being oversensitive, but if you don’t address it, it just gets under your skin. Microaggressions…

    3. grace*

      I think it’s a compliment! I’ve had friends say that about me to people they know might be rude or mean, and they always mean it as a positive – she’s tough, don’t mess with her. I wouldn’t let it get to you that much.

    4. [insert witty user name here]*

      I would take it as a compliment. My thinking is “tough-looking people are often (rightly or wrongly) seen as grouchy, aggressive, and not too pleasant; I am seen as approachable but appropriately assertive”

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      To me it sounds like a reproach to someone else. As in, don’t underestimate her based on your assumptions.

    6. Thlayli*

      I would absolutely take that as a compliment. But that’s me, you’re entitled not to feel complimented.

    7. Bea*

      It’s a misguided misogynistic “compliment” said to confirm that despite your appearance and womanhood, you’re not to be messed with. I loath this approach.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      I would take it as you work and you work hard. If something difficult comes up you just keep going.

      I have had a couple bosses comment that I never ask for anything. I can make a go of it on next to nothing. Yeah, that’s kind of true. I watch waste a lot and try to reuse. I do little repairs sometimes. It adds up.

      Probably you just get through tough situations and keep doing your job. The speaker might be telling a person that they should do the same as you do instead of complaining all the time or asking for things or expecting other people to do it for them.

  29. AnonGerman*

    New office setup, and I get more desk space but am next to a couple of orthodox Jewish coworkers.

    Me with 100% German ancestry feels awkward. I feel like I should possibly apologize for my ancestors wrongdoings but that would feel stupid now. I don’t want to make them nervous though.

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Unless you’re identifiably German (not just German-descended, I’m talking like your birth certificate says Deutschland) I would not worry about it. At least in the US, German descent is EXTREMELY common and not really worth remarking on.

      1. AnonGerman*

        Nah, it’s more that the fact I speak fluent German is often remarked on because it’s super helpful for work, and people are interested to know how I know it. I also travel a lot and like to talk about my trips, including to Germany.

        1. C.*

          If it’s helpful for work, that makes me think you have German clients or your work involves the country to some extent? If that’s the case, then if your co-workers haven’t had a problem with that, they won’t have a problem with you.

    3. ABK*

      They are probably used to being around people with ancestors who oppressed them and this is more about your discomfort/white guilt. With that in mind, it’s generally not a good idea to put minorities/oppressed people in the position of having to make their oppressor feel more comfortable (like offering an apology with the hopes that they will say “oh, it’s ok, we don’t think about the holocaust anymore/it’s not your fault”). Maybe give money to a Jewish remembrance museum or the ACLU or something along those lines.

      2. K.*

        Yeah, I’ve had white coworkers say stuff like that to me, usually after they’ve seen something that highlights Black suffering at white hands (e.g. they’d gone to see “12 Years a Slave” that weekend) and I really wish they wouldn’t. I just want to do my job; I don’t want to be responsible for absolving them of their guilt. I don’t appreciate being put in that position. In those instances I have said “Okay” and changed the subject back to work. “Okay. So, about those TPS reports …”

        1. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

          Years ago I had a co-worker who regularly told me that she “doesn’t see colour” and had nothing against me because I’m non-white. If you don’t have a problem with me, then stop telling me you don’t have a problem.

            1. Andy*

              The Statement “I’m not…(bad thing)” has been shown in my experience to have direct corrolation with the fact that THEY ARE

      3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        +5000

        Every time someone apologizes to me on behalf of men who oppress women (because I’m female) or straight people (particularly Christians) who oppress LGBT folks (because I’m gay) — I’m not offended precisely but I’m usually rolling my eyes internally. You don’t speak for everyone you’re supposedly apologizing on behalf of, and it doesn’t make homophobia or sexism less of a thing I need to deal with on the regular, so please just don’t.

        1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

          (The LGBT example especially is silly to me, because while I’m a lesbian I’m also passionately Christian myself. So you’re apologizing to me… on behalf of a group that includes me…?)

          1. D'Arcy*

            You are presumably not included in the “large subset of Christians who are virulently homophobic and transphobic”, which is really what’s being apologized for.

      4. Annie Moose*

        Honestly, sometimes I get wracked with guilt about [insert X topic here], and it helps settle me to donate to good organizations. I’m blessed to be in a good financial place and always am wanting to donate more money anyway, so it works out for everybody. I used this a lot in the past year… some politician pissing me off? Here’s another $50 for an organization you dislike!

        (obviously this solution is not financially available to everyone! But it does help me to be like, here is a concrete thing I can do about [anti-semitism/racism/sexism/poverty/etc.]. Maybe for someone else, it’s writing emails to/calling their legislators, or volunteering with a local nonprofit, or donating items they don’t need, or committing to stop telling a type of joke, or whatever, but doing SOMETHING helps me with the nebulous guilt feelings)

      5. HannahS*

        OMG yes. Am Jewish, descended from Holocaust survivors…what do you want us to do, forgive you? For something you didn’t do? There’s nothing to forgive there. Forgive your ancestors? Never. That’s not my place. Also, under Jewish law, you can’t forgive on behalf of someone else. So I can’t forgive Nazi Germany on behalf of my grandparents, and my grandparents can’t forgive on behalf of their siblings and parents who were murdered, and you can’t ask for forgiveness on behalf of anyone else. Apologizing would literally be pointless. Also, frankly, we are well accustomed to being around the descendants of people who violently and bitterly oppressed us.

        I don’t mean to be facetious here, but, dude, we’re just people. With hobbies and relationships. We are perfectly capable of talking about them. And I think you need to do a bit of soul searching as to why you’re so uncomfortable around Orthodox Jews, particularly. Would you be less uncomfortable around people like me, young people in “regular” clothes? But I’m the direct descendant of a woman who survived Auschwitz, and you don’t even know that those Orthodox people around you had family involved! You see “Jew” and think “Holocaust.” Teach yourself to stop.

        2. Penny Lane*

          Some of us are both of Jewish ancestry AND of German non-Jewish ancestry. What are we supposed to do, forgive ourselves?

          And I agree. It seems that their Orthodox-ness “triggers” something in you that makes you feel bad – but the secular or Reform Jew who is munching on a ham sandwich could easily have lost entire branches in the Holocaust. For that matter, so could the Catholic whose family had Jewish relatives.

          Maybe we should all stop apologizing for things we personally didn’t do, and work on apologizing for things we actually did do that were wrong.

          I mean, I’m white, but as Northern as they come, and I’m not apologizing for slavery since none of my ancestors engaged in it. Let the descendants of those who did own slaves do the apologizing. My hands are clean.

    4. anon24*

      I don’t think you need to. My family was in US during the war but reportedly some of them were sympathetic to the German side. I am absolutely disgusted by what happened to the Jews and other minorities during that time. Why should I have to apologize for views my ancestors had, when I do not share those same views? They are not me, and I did not do those things.

    5. jenniferthebillionth*

      Don’t do that. Just treat them like you would any other coworker.
      — A (sometimes) religious Jewish person

    7. Simon*

      Please don’t do this. I’m Jewish and if anyone did this to me I would give them major side eye and question whether or not they were okay.

      You don’t have to apologize for something you did not do. Don’t fall into that trap. You are not an “opressor”. You are not bad. You did nothing wrong and having nothing to feel guilty for.

    8. Nita*

      Don’t do it. An apology like that, out of nowhere, over something neither you nor them were personally involved in, would be just weird. You’re not a representative of the entire German people, and they’re not the representatives of the entire Jewish people. You’re just coworkers. If it ever comes up in conversation, certainly, say that you’re ashamed on behalf of Germans, but don’t steer conversation to this topic yourself. It’s one of those things that never really drops out of one’s mind (because he who does not learn history is doomed to repeat it) but is very personal, and not exactly water-cooler small talk material.

    9. Trillion*

      I do get where you’re coming from (I’m a white southern American whose family very likely owned slaves some time and I sometimes feel that irrational urge to apologize to a black person even though I find it to be a horrific, barbaric part of history.) (Sorry, Alison, if I’m starting a race debate here, that’s not my intention!!)

      But you personally did nothing wrong. Please know that, in the US, national origin is a protected class. If your Jewish coworkers harass you for having German ancestry, that’s very likely punishable at your company.

      But they probably won’t even think anything of it.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        View it as one small act of apology to the group in question that you do *not* bring this up, unsolicited, in a work situation where they would likely be extremely taken aback. Don’t make this their problem to deal with, and remind them of those circumstances in a situation where they are probably just trying to get through the day like anybody else. Grant them the agency to bring this up themselves if they wish to.

        If you are feeling guilt around the issue, you can “pay it forward” to someone *else*in an appropriate venue, like making a donation to a cause that supports victims of genocide or whatever else.

        2. MarnieH.*

          I’m German (born in Germany to German parents). My family emigrated when I was four. If someone brought it up with the expectation of me apologizing I would not know what to say. I hold no ill will to anyone who is Jewish. My job is to help new immigrants and people who have experienced hate crimes. But what happened in Germany was half a century before I was born. I had nothing to do with it. I think it was disgusting and awful and should never be forgotten. But I don’t feel bad or guilt over it.

          1. Lil Fidget*

            It sounds like OP does feel conflicted emotionally though. I don’t think its an issue if you don’t. I don’t think it’s likely that these coworkers are going to approach anybody and demand an apology, but OP should remember that they can bring it up if they want and this isn’t something she needs to fix.

        1. Sci Fi IT Girl*

          Yep – me. :-) Definitely don’t apologize, it would be weird. You are you, not the past. I have both relatives from the camps and the Nazi side and the hiding neither side- I’d be crazy if the past history defined me and my family. There is a bunch of literature on how Germans struggle with guilt and even have issues with national pride, almost a nation of guilt. Hopefully we Germans are moving beyond that. For the Jewish part – I still think it would be weird – to the point of like “hmmm, what are they up too that they need to apologize to me ” I suspect most folks belonging to a group that was singled out don’t expect modern people to apologize for things they had nothing to do with. Remember we Jews weren’t always the nicest to other groups either in the past. We all have good and terrible things in our historic backgrounds.

    11. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Adding to the chorus of people saying don’t do it. I’m Jewish (but not Orthodox), and I would find it highly weird, especially since my Jewish ancestors weren’t in Europe then (and there’s no guarantee your coworkers’ ancestors were either).

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Honestly even if you knew for certain your ancestors were perpetrators of violence against a certain group, I wouldn’t approach someone in that group like this.

    12. Tuxedo Cat*

      Don’t. I’m a woman of color, and I feel like things like that are putting the onus on me to forgive and behave differently. It feels very performative and self-serving for the apologizer, more about them than me.

      Treat your coworkers as normal people.

    13. EmilyG*

      I am not German but I speak German, and I think part of the reason you may feel this way is that atonement for past crimes is still an active part of the conversation in Germany. The difference, though, is that they were trying to form, and are trying to run, a nation in the wake of past crimes which requires ongoing thought and action (for example, considering how to welcome new immigrants/refugees). You’re not a nation, just an individual!

    14. Jessica*

      You’re not responsible for what your ancestors did, but you’re responsible for what YOU do… and don’t do So focus on that. Race/religious prejudice, scapegoating of minorities, rise of authoritarianism, emboldening of violent hate groups—a lot of the things that happened in 1930s Germany and led up to the Holocaust are also, in varied forms, happening in the U.S. (where I’m assuming you are) right now. If you don’t want the atrocities that you feel sorry about in the past to happen again, take steps. What are you doing to fight the oppression and disenfranchisement of minorities in your own time and place? Put your energy there if you really care, not in empty apologies for a past you didn’t perpetrate.

    16. Not So NewReader*

      IF your family taught you this then you need to make a conscious decision to let it go. It was something your family taught you and may/may not have been relevant or useful for their time. We live in different times now and we handle that ancestral guilt differently.

      My father was second generation American. I don’t think his father gave him much idea on how to live in America. We can’t teach what we don’t know. Compounding matters his father was abusive, so lots of layers going on there.
      In 1940 my father was 20. Psychologists now say that what happens to us in our 20s leaves a major impression on us for the rest of our lives. My father signed up to help fight the war. With a German surname.

      After the war he spend over a decade looking for work. People with German surnames did not always get hired. I remember when I was in first grade, I asked what nationality we descended from. He said Irish. The kids at school called me a Nazi. I asked my father what a Nazi was. I will never forget, he said “Don’t you have more questions about where babies come from?” He was serious. Fast forward, he was extremely upset when I wanted to study German in school. He had spent so much time detaching and here I was re-attaching.

      What I am trying to show here is how the guilt is subtly installed in us by our families. Not all families do this, hopefully this does not apply to you. It’s good to realize that things shift, they change. I have not been called a Nazi since grammar school. One point I could never get through to my father is that the sins of a nation did not rest on HIS shoulders. He could not hear me. It caused difficulties for him that were avoidable.

      Stay in current time and be the best person you can be. That is all there is that we can do.

    17. strawberries and raspberries*

      I understand the impulse, but rather than coming across as sympathetic, you will probably come across as even more anti-Semitic than you mean to be. Like, what are you afraid they’re going to do when they find out you’re German?

      As a Jewish grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, if someone came up to me apologizing for being German and their ancestors’ wrongdoings, my response would be, “Wow, you’ve never actually met a Jew before, have you?”

      2. Observer*

        As a Jewish grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, if someone came up to me apologizing for being German and their ancestors’ wrongdoings, my response would be, “Wow, you’ve never actually met a Jew before, have you?”

        I’m not a grandchild, but a child of a Holocaust survivor, but so much this.

    18. Observer*

      You’ve got a lot of good responses. Please heed them.

      Also, please think about why it matters that these happen to be Orthodox Jews?

      And why does it matter that you are now near them? They didn’t matter before? They matter now? How does the physical proximity change things?

      The one thing you could do that might be useful is to avoid being to fulsome about the beauties of Germany or the wonders of German culture – especially the wonders of German culture. I don’t mean that you never talk about it at all, and CERTAINLY don’t make a big production about not talking about it. But, just maybe that shouldn’t be a major topic of conversation for you. Because, yeah, German culture has a lot to answer for. And some of us children of survivors are not so enthused about that culture.

    19. Jiya*

      As folks have been saying – don’t. I doubt your coworkers want to be representative of All Judaism any more than you want to be representative of All Germans. You’re coworkers – just act like that.

  30. Stainless109*

    Hi all, I have a bit of a problem I hope the hive mind could help me with. I’m applying for my first 9-5 after being self employed for 4 years. I was commiserating my lack of success with a friend and she suggested the reason I wasn’t getting many interviews was because employers thought as soon as my freelancing picked up or if the job wasn’t as advertised i’d be gone.

    Is there any language I can use in my cover letter and interviews to convey I’m not going to leave if the freelancing picks up?

    Thanks!

    1. ThatGirl*

      I think in the cover letter you could say something like “After 4 years of self-employment, I’ve realized I miss the stability the office provides” or something like that – review what you’ve accomplished in those four years but then also mention why it’s not the right fit anymore.

      1. WorkRobot*

        And maybe add that s/he realized that s/he really missed being part of a team/collaborative environment while freelancing, because of X and Y (X and Y being things one wouldn’t likely find in a solo freelancing gig, but could easily find in 9-5 setting).

        Just a thought.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          This advice is well-intentioned but might be problematic. I don’t know that you should suggest a lack of collaboration or teamwork – I would emphasise how you’ve had that but say you want to be dedicated to one role.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Why are you looking to transition out of freelancing and back into ‘regular’ employment?

      Explain that in your cover letter.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      If the truth works in your favor, use it. “After being self-employed for four years, I’ve realized that I love designing teapots but I hate being responsible for my own marketing and accounts receivable, so I’m looking forward to leaving those tasks in someone else’s hands and concentrating on teapot design again.”

      If the truth is more like “I’d love to stay self-employed but I don’t get enough business,” make something up. ;-)

    4. Undine*

      Why are you going full time? Use that. The reasons I gave had to do with wanting to be part of a team, having other people I could work with and who had my back. The reason I didn’t give was money. Both were true, and I had a lot of stories that could back up the first one.

    5. Ramona Flowers*

      Ex-freelancer here. A lot of people think freelancing means you aren’t a team player or are flaky. It’s really frustrating because obviously it takes commitment and dedication to nurture and stick at a business.

      What I did was really emphasise things like relationship building. I didn’t just talk about projects I worked on, but about building long-term relationships with clients and supporting their teams. I talked about how being a freelancer had required me to be able to manage multiple priorities and I was really clear that I did not want to continue with it. The gist was: I learned x, y and z as a freelancer and I want to go use all that in a job.

    6. Bea*

      I’ll be real, most places don’t look at your freelancing as experience and that is the roadblock more so than them thinking you’ll be leaving if the freelance picks up. 4 years of self employment reads as 4 years of no employment to many who are hiring.

      I wish you luck and know you’ll find somewhere willing to give you a chance. Just sell the heck out if yourself in your cover letter as mentioned above.

  31. July*

    I am an adult student at a university that really emphasizes participation in a professional networking platform called Handshake. I tend to think that it’s unlikely anyone’s going to hire me based on the strength of some research papers I upload to my portfolio there and that any hiring that does take place there will be pretty entry level. Does anyone have a sense whether my read on this is correct? My instinct is that Linked In and, you know, actual IRL networking is the way to go here.

    1. Rilara*

      My grad school has also been pushing Handshake very strongly. I don’t see the point in bothering with it either, so I’m curious to see if others have a different opinion or positive experience with it! In my experience with the career portal at another university, none of the jobs that were supposed to be in my field were particularly relevant to me, and all the interviews and jobs I’ve gotten were through applying online or in person networking.

    2. ContentWrangler*

      Yeah, my college had some kind of alumni professional networking platform they pushed too. I don’t think you’ll be hurt by participating – sometimes alumni connections can be great for informational interviews or leads. But definitely put more energy into LinkedIn.

    3. Adaline B.*

      I’ve done intern recruiting and there was one university that exclusively used Handshake. I think a lot of Universities use something similar where employers can post jobs and only students/graduates can look at them. I can definitely see it only being an intern/entry level thing. Any higher level recruiting we do is through jobs posted directly on our website.

      I’m not really proficient in Handshake all that well though because said University didn’t confirm my credentials I requested in May until….2 weeks ago >.>

    4. Quiet Please*

      Last year during my performance review, my manager praised all my work, ethic, and growth over the past year, but ended the conversation by saying I needed to work on talking to people less at my desk.

      I was pretty shocked, as I don’t have casual conversations at my desk that often. When I do, I ask that people whisper so they don’t distract anyone in the area. Our area might be quieter than most in the company, but my grandboss and coworker are both loud on a daily basis. My thought is that I’m the only person my manager can really ask to be quiet, so she is.

      I spent the next year trying to keep people away from my desk, but now when I have legitimate work conversation with people who stop by, I’m on edge wondering if it’s going to affect my next performance evaluation. We’re due to have a discussion in the next week, and I’m worried about 1) did I do well enough keeping people away this year (legit work conversations and otherwise) and 2) how do I respond if she brings it up again?

      Boss is otherwise great in every way. This seems to be a weird quirk.

      Advice for this year’s pending performance eval?

      1. Argh!*

        Was the complaint last year about noise or about time spent chatting?

        If you have time to read over your evaluation before meeting with your boss, and there’s nothing said about it, you might just not mention it.

        My take on what you’ve said is that your boss felt that she had to say something negative because nobody is perfect, so she fished around in her mind for something to bring up.

        If it is brought up again, getting clarity about expectations would be the next step. You could say “Visits are work-related conversations only, and I have kept the volume down. What would you have me do differently?”

        The possible solutions would depend on the complaint. If coworkers find it distracting, you could divert conversations that might take time to a different space, like a conference room, or conduct more business by email or chat. Or you could ask for an office if you’re in cubeville. (I know that never happens but it made me happy to say it!)

        But seriously…. you should be able to have conversations with people one-on-one without having to explain yourself.

  32. SodaCrackerandPop*

    Wow, just learned from board minutes that my boss is no longer working with the school. Very quiet way to go about it, and now since I’m the last hired, I’m worried.

    1. Amelia*

      Sorry to hear that! If it was super quietly done its likely your boss stepped out of line somehow. I wouldn’t worry. just make a point of being friendly to the board and to whoever is going to be hiring your new boss.

  33. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    I’m really weary of my job this week. (Probably not helped by the personal email hack and fraudulent purchases I’m now unraveling, so my willingness to tolerate BS is at an all-time low…) Before I start my rant, yes – I AM actively job searching.

    I’m sick of the blatant favoritism. I’m sick of the Queen Bee getting away with murder. I’m tired of being left off the free food emails because my boss is too lazy to approve me to be added to the email list (which I should be on anyway because it’s the frigging department I support). I’m tired of the insane demands and expectations: I am expected to perform at a 100% rate of perfection even though, last time I checked, I am a human and not a robot. I’m tired of being expected to perform miracles because people are too thoughtless/lazy to understand there are processes I have to go through and can’t just leapfrog over them.

    I’m bored, burnt out, and unsupported.

    1. Simone R*

      This all sounds exhausting, but the free food emails is the WORST! So sorry you’re dealing with that.

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        If it was the first or second time it happened, I’d be annoyed. But we’re approaching double digits now. It’s incredibly insulting. Especially since I’ve brought it up. I even tried to get myself on the list…but Boss has to approve it.

        1. Simone R*

          There’s a great Conan O’Brien video where he discovers that he’s left off the free food emails and does a setup to shame coworkers. Might give you some amusement/inspiration?

          1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

            If my coworkers notice, they’ll loop me in. So if it’s food coming to the office, I usually find out. However, when the boss takes everybody out to lunch I usually find out….right as they’re leaving.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Whaaattt? Some people should not be in positions of power. If he can’t handle a lunch list what else is he messing up?

    3. SpaceNovice*

      The fact your boss didn’t feel guilt and immediately add you the first time or two this happened is like… this boss has absolutely no empathy. Everything else just proves that not only doesn’t he have empathy but he’s a jerk. Hope you get a new job soon, because that is absolutely unacceptable you’re being treated like that.

  34. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

    Merit raise question: if I’m already getting paid above market value for my position in my region, should I still ask for a raise? I’m doing good work, and my boss just gave me a glowing review, but I still feel overpaid based on my research (though I make under $40K a year, so I’m not exactly rolling in dough). If I ask for a raise, how should I frame the ask? Does anyone have tips on how to make me feel less weird about it?
    Thank you, lovely commenters!

    1. BeepBoopBeep*

      I’ve in the opposite predicament- i’m paid market value for my “title” but my job goes way outside these lines, so I SHOULD have a much higher title.

      SO, I would suggest asking for more responsibilities and, then, maybe after you prove yourself, a title change with a raise. Longer route, but if you are feeling weird about it, this would solidify your reasoning, with more than just your work as proof.

    2. Bagpuss*

      I think it is fine to ask for a raise. Presumably they hired you at the salary they are paying because they thought your were worth that, you’ve proved them right by doing a great job and getting great reviews.

      I’d focus on the things which your boss identified as particular positives in your review, and at the same time that you can express willingness to take on additional responsibility etc.

      Do you think that you are really overpaid, or is it possible that what you are actually doing is, in practice, different to other similar roles / roles with similar titles, which might throw off your ‘market rate’ research?

    3. Bea*

      Market based research has it’s place but we are FINALLY coming out of the stagnant wages from the recession. You deserve to be paid well and we are conditioned these days to be glad we have work and to be able to pay bills, that doesn’t mean you’re overpaid and shouldn’t make more.

      Ask. If the company has money and is doing well fiscally they want to retain talent. You do that with wages and benefits.

    4. Sam Foster*

      It sounds to me like the standard method of asking for a raise still applies: Demonstrate the value you provide to the company and use hat to justify an increase in salary. At the same time, prepare an argument countering the “well the market is ___ to ___.” I would work up a polite way of saying “yes, that’s the market, but, here, I am worth ‘x’ because of ‘y’ and ‘z’ and feel that because my responsibilities increased this year (sales went up, whatever your earlier evidence was) I deserve ‘q’% increase.

  35. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Today I wore my “nevertheless she persisted” t-shirt, and coworker wore one that said “hey snowflake! No one owes you a participation trophy!” for casual day.

    Could have ended very badly but instead we got another person to take our picture together.

    1. HisGirlFriday*

      Today, I am wearing a T-shirt with a picture of the Death Star and the words, “That’s not a moon” written underneath.

      I love casual Fridays. But sadly, no one else has a funny shirt for a photo op.

      1. NewBoss2016*

        My t-shirt today has a cat’s face peeking out of the chest pocket. Little do my co-workers know, if you pull the pocket down the kitty is flipping double birds. Totally not work appropriate, but nobody has to know!

          1. NewBoss2016*

            I am posting the link. In case it gets stuck in moderation, the company is called RipNDip Clothing. If you google “cat flipping off shirt” (I know, mature!) there are cheaper versions made. Mine is a pretty heather gray color I bought at Zumiez in the mall.

        4. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I occasionally wear a pair of socks with one foot that says “if you can read” and the other foot says “f*ck off I’m busy”. The words are on the bottoms, so the only way anyone would see it is if I had my shoes off for some reason, but it amuses me when I’m having a bad day.

      2. Polaris*

        I have a Death Star t-shirt with the words “Ceci n’est pas une lune,” because I am that much of a nerd. I wish we could get a picture together! My work does not do casual days, unfortunately.

    2. Goya de la Mancha*

      My reading comprehension is at an all time low today….I read this as you wore the shirt and a coworker SAID that to you….and I was very confused on how you settled upon a picture as a way to solve this. Thank goodness for the weekend!

      1. NewBoss2016*

        That is how I read it too. I didn’t understand until you posted your comment. My brain is ready for the weekend.

    3. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

      I have the “nevertheless” t-shirt as well! Sadly I had to explain to several people.

      1. The Curator*

        I picked up a t-shirt at a conference last week for Mr. Curator. It says, Books Turn Muggles Into Wizards. He said “What’s a Muggle?” He wasn’t kidding. I love him anyway.

        1. Chaordic One*

          My local Barnes and Noble stores have a whole bunch of throw comforters that say “muggle worthy.” You should get one for hubby. (They’re in the clearance area.)

    5. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      My “casual day” means I can wear nice jeans. Lucky. I have some awesome geeky t-shirts I could wear otherwise.

    6. Totally Minnie*

      I’m jealous that people get to wear shirts with words on them for casual Friday. We’re allowed to wear jeans (but only nice once, preferably dark wash), but not t-shirts.

    7. IT Squirrel*

      I have my ‘How to be an adult’ shirt on, which has a cartoon kitty sitting behind a book with that as the title, with just his tail and head down to his eyes peeking out! I’m on nights so only my shift buddies will see it today.

      I have many t-shirts with cartoons and slogans like this, and it brightens my day every time I wear them :)

  36. Banana*

    My office has started stocking free snacks. The bananas are most popular. People are bringing them into meetings. I have a food allergy to them (nausea, vomiting, migraine) that is irritating but not life threatening. The whole thing is driving me bananas.

    1. Thursday Next*

      Ugh, I’m sorry. It’s hard to be allergic to something most people don’t think of as an allergen. Does your allergy worsen dramatically with proximity? If so, could you let people sitting near you in a meeting know you’re allergic? If word gets around, eventually banana-eaters might avoid sitting near you.

    2. BeepBoopBeep*

      You should mention something to management/HR. Be assertive! Don’t suffer on someone else’s behalf.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      You vomiting in a meeting isn’t going to be anybody’s idea of a good time. I think pointing out that this is a possibility might get some traction.

    4. LCL*

      I think its reasonable to ask coworkers not to eat them around you. That includes in meetings. Just say, don’t eat bananas around me. I am so allergic they make me vomit. I have done exactly that. Bananas are a more common allergen than you might think.

    5. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Ugh, that sucks. I don’t think I’m officially allergic to bananas (apparently I ate them a lot as a young child, although I don’t remember ever doing so), but the smell makes me really sick. I think it’s okay to ask people not to eat bananas near you.

      1. Enough*

        It’s not unusual to crave something that does not agree with you. My sister drank a lot of milk as a child. She has a mild intolerance to it.

    6. [insert witty user name here]*

      Could your workplace restrict the eating of snacks to just the kitchen and people’s desks? IE – no food in the conference/meeting rooms? That seems pretty reasonable to me – you can avoid other people’s desks and the kitchen, but not where you need to be for meetings. And it’s not a terrible burden on anyone else (although, inevitably, some people will see it as such). Sorry you have to deal with that!

    7. Bagpuss*

      I think it would be totally reasonable to go to your boss, or to HR, about this.

      It sounds as though you are not suggesting that they stop stocking free bananas, just that people don’t bring them to, or eat them in, meetings, which is a fairly minor adjustment to ask people to make.

      I’d suggest that when you speak to HR you specifically explain that it is a medical issue as you have an allergy which is triggered by proximity, and also be specific about the fact that you are not asking for them to be banned, just to be banned from meetings.

      If you are comfortable in doing so, then I also think that saying something yourself, when you go into a meeting, would also be absolutely fine. My experience is that the majority of people are reasonable when faced with a polite request and a reason for it, and in a meeting, even if you have the occasional jerk, peer pressure may well mean they fall in line!

      1. Anony*

        Not bringing the bananas into a meeting is a very small accommodation. If it is making you feel sick you should say something!

      2. Reba*

        I actually think it is reasonable to ask them (the company/office manager/whoever does the food buying) to stop stocking bananas altogether. There are plenty of other fruits in the world.

        1. Anony*

          I think that depends on the degree of the allergy. Banning a popular food from the office (or asking the company not to provide it anymore) could upset people if the allergy is mild and contact is easily contained. If it is an anaphylactic reaction or the allergen can become airborne then it is entirely reasonable to simply not have it in the office.

          1. Reba*

            Well, the OP’s allergic reaction as described certainly qualifies.

            Also, I mean, they are bananas, not like a famous delicacy that can only be acquired on the office premises. If people like bananas, they know where to get them, and bananas are really unlikely to be the kind of perk that people are really attached to–although having food you like in general might be.

      3. Susan*

        Yeah – if they haven’t been told it’s a problem they aren’t going to guess. Just ask that bananas be not stocked would be my request; if that feels overly pushy, settle for asking they not be in certain areas.

    8. Annie Moose*

      This is a terrible problem that I hope you are able to resolve soon with a minimum of side effects, but I wanted you to know how much I appreciate you saying it’s driving you bananas. I cackled.

  37. Spooky*

    At what point do colleagues need to be informed of medical conditions?

    We have a man in our office. He’s probably only middle aged, but he seems much, much older. In the last year, his health has dramatically declined, to the point that he can no longer remember people’s names (even people he has known for years), loses or forgets things all the time, and visibly trembles constantly.

    I’m not here to armchair diagnose him (although we do deal with confidential information, so several people in my office have quietly voiced some concerns that his memory issues might raise a security problem.) I trust that his supervisors have some knowledge of his condition. However, his health has been so dramatically bad recently that people have started wondering what we should do if he collapses. Since none of us know what is wrong, no one knows how we should treat him in case of an (increasingly likely) emergency. By that I mean, if someone were diabetic and passed out, you’re treat them entirely differently than, say, someone with a heart condition who passed out.

    So my question is this: At what point do you inform employees of a coworker’s condition? And if we do (hopefully not, but if) ever have to call medical services, what do we tell them? (He does not wear any visible medical bracelets.) I don’t feel like we need to know what’s going on with him and I have no desire to invade his privacy or embarrass him, but I know several of us would feel a lot better if we had a protocol to follow.

    I feel gross and invasive even asking this question, but I’m worried about him. :(

    2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Oh man, that’s tough!

      I think what you might do is go to either him or your manager and ask your specific procedural questions. Not for details of his condition, but for ‘what should we do if X?” or ‘is Y likely to happen?’ Focus on the stuff that’s actionable for you.

    4. Colette*

      Honestly, you are going to treat someone who passes out the same way regardless of why. 911, check for breathing, CPR/defibrillator as appropriate. But 911 is first, and they will help you figure it out. You really don’t need to know what he is dealing with. (I understand that you’d feel more in control if you did, but from a first aid perspective, if someone passes out, why doesn’t matter.)

      1. Anony*

        It can matter. If someone is diabetic and passes out they should be treated differently (check sugar and give insulin or glucose ASAP). Some medications can also affect treatment. However it is his choice not to wear a bracelet to provide any relevant medical information.

        1. Colette*

          You don’t give glucose to someone who is passed out, and you certainly don’t start injecting them with insulin. Medical personnel might, but unless you (as a member of the general public) can get in a lot of trouble for administering medications you aren’t authorized to administer. You call the paramedics.

          1. Anony*

            I meant the EMTs. The OP mentioned wanting to be able to tell the paramedics information that could help treat them.

            1. Colette*

              The EMTs would like health information, absolutely – but that doesn’t justify co-workers asking for or getting that information. The EMTs will figure it out as best they can, and if he passes out, HR can notify his emergency contact who may have information on what is going on.

              1. D'Arcy*

                Speaking as a former EMT: bystander reports are primarily useful for providing additional observation of the signs displayed by the patient. They’re generally not very useful for medical history because we have no real way of knowing that the information is correct — the only credible third party reporting of medical history is going to be close family members, and even that has to be “trust but verify”.

    5. Anony*

      If he is not volunteering the information then you should treat it exactly as if you saw something happen to a stranger on the street. If something happens to him, call EMS. They are trained in how to deal with people whose medical history they do not know. He would receive better care if they knew his history, but that is his decision to make. Personally, I tell my supervisor that I have epilepsy but not my coworkers. I just don’t feel comfortable with it and I am willing to take on any risk that entails.

    6. Bagpuss*

      I think it is up to him to decide what he shares with co-workers.
      In practical terms, if he were to collapse then after calling 911 it would make sense to call HR to ask whether there was any information they had which should be passed to the paramedics.
      Do you have nominated first aiders? I know in our office, the first aiders do send round a memo periodically to all staff. I can’t remember the exact wording but basically it invites staff to consider whether there is anything about their health that they feel it would be useful for the First Aiders to know, in the event of an emergency – basically ‘ you don’t need to tell us but it will help us to help you, if you do.
      Maybe you could suggest something similar to your HR / First aiders, if it isn’t already in place, which you could do without singling out this specific co-worker

    7. nonymous*

      I had a coworker die last year after falling through some ice trying to rescue his dog (the dog survived). He was a single guy, with no local family. Some good samaritans saw the dog paddling in the water and that’s how his body was discovered. Police called the last number on his cell phone history, which was a coworker, and they reached out to management and HR to find an emergency contact. However he didn’t have anyone listed, so a bunch of coworkers basically had to google stalk his mom based on collective recollections of stories he told.

      Moral of the story: keep your emergency contact info up to date!

    8. A Nickname for AAM*

      I would recommend keeping an eye on where he keeps his wallet and phone or other personal effects (a briefcase, etc.) People often keep wallet cards or digital notes in the “Emergency Contact” section of their phone. You can hand them to EMS when they arrive.

      Also, make sure his emergency contact is notified ASAP if 911 is called. They may give you further directions to pass on to EMS, or rush to meet him at the hospital.

  38. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

    After almost six months, we have a replacement for the senior dev who left! However, the first person who came quitted after two weeks, so now we have a replacement’s replacement. Luckily my workload hasn’t increased.
    I started my job search being ghosted by first recruiter who contacted me after two emails. Sadly, that’s the most interesting thing that happened so far.

  39. The Person from the Resume*

    Any advice or encouragement would be appreciated.

    For a long time I worked on a problem project but the problems were not my fault. I worked hard to do everything to overcome them and they took a lot of my time. At the end, I was also assigned another project that seemed to be moving along fine so my time was devoted to the problem project. Now that problem project has been cancelled, I take my head up and look around and discover that the new project is still going along okay, but there’s several underlying / basic tasks that I have not done that could bite the project in the future. Groundwork not been laid for the ultimate sustainment of the thing being developed. This is my responsibility or at least it was my responsibility to alert people of the potential problem before the project has got as far as it has. But also I do not know the answer or exactly who to ask so I suspect the solution will be resolved by describing the problem to many people and they keep directly me to another person who maybe could help.

    I struggling mightily just to work. I’m ashamed and embarrassed by the oversight. Having to ask for help for something I find hard. Admitting I don’t know something I probably should is something I find hard. Cold calling or emailing is something I find hard. Having to explain we’re further down the development path than we should be without resolution for sustainment is embarrassing and I’m doing some crazy avoidance tactics where I basically don’t accomplish anything all day long.

    My mental willpower is not enough at this time to get me to just do it. I admitted a little bit of the problem to my program manager (work problem not so much personal agony) but he didn’t help much. I told my supervisor and she was more helpful. I also work from home so we don’t have face time.

    This week I made some good progress despite a bad dad of avoidance on Wednesday but there’s still other tasks (the cold calling/emailing) that are on my to do list that trigger my anxiety. I have never had this problem before but sometimes I sit at my desk and feel my heart racing from all the stress.

    All I know is to try to power through, but that’s not working well.

    1. Offer Solutions and a Recovery Plan*

      I would ‘fess up. To my boss, to the project leader, whatever. Right now, it doesn’t matter why (and if they are good, professional people they shouldn’t dwell on the why), just what the current situation is, and what the plan is to resolve it. So, get really clear on the situation, make a list of actions needed to be taken to resolve it, and set a timeline for when you’ll be caught up.

      When you ‘fess up to this, it will remove a lot of the barriers to your resolving the later than usual actions, because you aren’t trying to hide it all any more. By spending even more time burying this and keeping it to yourself, you are compounding (and it works just as powerfully as compounding interest!) an inadvertent mistake into an intentional one, and it will come out, and it’s going to be worse that you knew it was a problem and didn’t resolve it rather than coming clean now and working your tail off to make it right. Inadvertent mistakes can typically be recovered from. The coverup of mistakes not so much. Rip the bandaid off.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Oh, so much sympathy. I’ve been there. I’m close to there right now. It’s the WORST — and it’s definitely compounded by working remotely, when you can’t just duck into your colleague’s offices to work something out.

      The only way out is through — and “through” is communicating really, really thoroughly to everyone who needs to know. Schedule a meeting with your boss/the person above you on the project/etc. and describe the situation as clearly as possible. Have a proposal for how to resolve the problem ready to go (even if the only realistic next step is “Crappy Thing X is going to happen, and we need to decide how we’re going to explain it”).

      You don’t need to carry the problem on your plate alone, even if it was your doing that the problem exists.

    3. Marthooh*

      “Having to ask for help for something I find hard. Admitting I don’t know something I probably should is something I find hard. Cold calling or emailing is something I find hard.”

      I hear you, Person from the Resume!

      Write down the tasks that need doing and why they are important for the future of the project. Break each task down to simple steps. Include a timeline for each task, as far as possible. Also suggest people, materials, skills, etc. that will make the tasks easier or quicker to do. Send a copy to your boss.

      “Boss, to make sure the llama breeding project goes forward smoothly, the following groundwork needs to be accomplished…” plus the list you made. Include a short progress report of what you have accomplished already. Ask for a scheduled meeting (face-to-face if that’s at all possible). As the work goes forward, keep asking for scheduled meetings to confirm that everything is getting done.

      Best of luck to you!

  40. Thursday Next*

    Question re. unnatural haircolor policies—for those of you who’ve had workplace policies on this, has it just been aimed at colors like blue and pink? I’m South Asian and have frequently had natural-for-someone haircolors that I’m pretty sure were obviously not natural for me. I’m just curious whether there’d be places where this would officially not be okay. (I don’t mean industries with generally conservative practices, but specific workplaces with spelled-out policies on it.)

    1. BeepBoopBeep*

      If you are comfortable, can you be more specific about what you do? With the trends now, I wouldn’t be surprised if most policies are more relaxed these days, but certain positions and/or industries might be more strict. I have seen a lot of my friends from college (I am 27 for reference) posting pictures of themselves with their coworkers and I have definitely thought- man, they allow their Marketing Director to have pink hair? thats cool. Everyone in my office has crazy colored hair, but my industry is much more lax.

      1. Thursday Next*

        I’m a (lapsed) academic, and have always been affiliated with universities/departments that don’t care about haircolor. It’s more a matter of my curiosity!

        1. BeepBoopBeep*

          Ah! Yeah, i would definitely say that nowadays (in general) everyone is much more accepting of pink/blue/rainbow hair. Colored hair isn’t really looked at as a “Rebellious” or “misfit” thing (not sure how to put it really, but i think you get my drift), but more of an art. Especially with the rise of instagram, i think a lot of people are really seeing all of the work that goes into some of these multicolored looks. And, if it is vibrant, they either just got it done or take really good care of their hair! =P

    2. grace*

      I worked in a dental office that had laid out policies on whether or not you could have them, and theirs was basically, anything that doesn’t come naturally (as in, in nature itself — so no greens, pinks, etc.) was verboten, and if you weren’t sure, ask before getting the dye job. They were flexible on things like platinum hair and didn’t care about ombre – as far as I could tell, they just didn’t want extreme colors like hot pink or blue.

    3. July*

      I tend to think that no functional workplace will have a policy that enables me–a very dark-haired white woman–to color my hair blonde while preventing my Asian-American coworker from doing the same.

      1. Thursday Next*

        This is what I suspected, but like I said, I have no experience of a place with a policy on hair colors.

    5. Thlayli*

      As far as I know If a hair colour occurs in nature, it’s allowed in a workplace that bans “unnatural” colours. It’s ok to have auburn hair, but pillarbox red would not be allowed. It’s not usually intended to mean “you’re allowed to cover your grey but not allowed blonde hair” in my experience.

      But if you’re not sure, ask!

    6. HannahS*

      I’ve only heard of it being “not found in nature on anyone,” and that was at a bank. I’d imagine it would be a bad idea for a workplace to start saying that Betty-of-Scandanavian-ancestry is allowed to have the full spectrum of hair colours, but Tasha-of-Ethiopian-ancestry can only have black hair.

      My previous job, working adjacent to education with kids, allowed my waist-length blue hair. But the institution was private, and parents didn’t really interact with me.

    7. Someone else*

      At places I’ve worked that had policies re: “non-natural hair color”, they defined that phrase as not naturally occurring in any human, not specifically not the natural hair color of the particular human wearing it. So if the color you’re dying your hair might be anyone’s natural hair color, it’s fine. If no human might naturally have that hair color (pink, blue, purple, green, anything neon, red if it’s like fire engine red) would all be a no go. Of course, specific companies might have different policies or language, but that’s how I’ve generally encountered it.

    8. This Daydreamer*

      My workplace doesn’t allow unnatural colors.

      They count flowers, birds, and insects as natural so it doesn’t feel like it’s that stifling a rule.

      Honestly, I could show up with a pink and green mohawk with glitter and they’d only complain about the glitter – that stuff gets everywhere.

  42. Truffles*

    I got a job!!! It’s in my field of study and will be my first post-university full time job. I’m a bit nervous about doing well and staying on top of the learning curve. Super excited about starting, though!! I think AAM’s cover letter advice had something to do with getting the offer. Any things you wish you’d known in your first job?

    1. Emily S.*

      Congratulations!

      My biggest tip is, get plenty of sleep. I remember being exhausted when I started my first 8-5 job, but once I started setting a firm (and early-ish) bed time for myself, and getting 8 hours, it helped a ton! These days, I go to bed at 10pm.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Well done!

      I think the biggest thing I wish I had known is that it is much better to listen, learn and take notes than to try to show off your knowledge.

    4. nep*

      Congratulations! Well done.
      Second getting plenty of sleep — it makes you better, it makes everything better.
      Ample sleep, ample water = clearer head, better health, better performance.

    5. AcademiaNut*

      Pace yourself, because the semester won’t end.

      In school, you get a reset every four months, when you can usually fall over, catch up on sleep, cleaning, laundry, your social life, healthy eating… So you can work yourself to exhaustion on finals and finishing assignments. In the workplace, there’s no reset button, and you will likely have limited vacation. So you need to pay attention to how to handle things in the long term. Get enough sleep, eat properly, get a schedule for cleaning and grocery shopping, don’t work excessive overtime when it’s not required, that sort of thing.

    6. Close Bracket*

      Nobody will ever tell you that there is a problem, so ask regularly for feedback, say, every few months. Ask whether there is anything that you should address. You should see your boss one-on-one regularly, so asking for feedback should be a part of those meetings. Well, your boss should be giving you constructive feedback unsolicited, but that won’t happen.

    7. Truffles*

      Thanks! Appreciate all the tips :) It’ll be an interesting transition from having semester breaks to working full time

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I am trying to figure out which one of them wanted it on the internet and why-why-why. This is like watching couples quibble. And her choice in poems… ick.

  44. ThinkingOutloud*

    How many of your employers have adoption benefits of some kind? I’m hearing conflicting things about how common these are. We’re about to roll some out at my 300-ish person software company, and I’m getting some pressure to make this a really large “launch” if you will.

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Mine does! I work for a Big McLargeHuge bank/investment firm, and one of the greatest things about it is that our benefits are by and large incredibly generous. There is an adoption assistance fund for the expenses associated, as well as up to 4 months of paid leave per parent.

      1. Chameleon*

        I’ve never worked anywhere with assistance, but it has been pretty common to offer identical parental leave benefits for new adoptive parents as they give new birth parents.

        1. Turkletina*

          Yep, two weeks period for all non-birth parents.

          A bunch of us have submitted a proposal to HR to bring our benefits more in line with our competitors and clients (we’re in tech), but so far, crickets.

    3. hermit crab*

      The company where I work reimburses adoption-related expenses up to a certain amount. I think it’s a few thousand dollars.

    5. Kj*

      Husband is in BigTech, so they have a VERY generous adoption policy. Their paternity policy is amazing too. I think the expectation in tech is that they will offer this benefit in a big way.

    6. TheCupcakeCounter*

      My company treats it as maternity/paternity leave exactly the same as if you (or your partner) physically gave birth. Not sure about any cost reimbursements though but surrogacy medical might be covered. I remember reading something about it but didn’t dive too deep since it wasn’t something we were looking into.

    7. Other benefits count too*

      This is probably going to be unpopular, but I’ll throw it out there anyway: if you’re considering a truly comprehensive benefit package (which it sounds like you are), maybe also consider an alternative benefit for those who choose to not have children. To explain further – there will be a population of workers who will never benefit from parental leave or adoption benefits because they choose to not have children. Consider offering a one or two time leave benefit for those who will not use parental benefits.

      Before I get ruthlessly attacked, I am NOT saying to not include parental leave or adoption assistance. I’m just offering another idea for those people who get less monetary benefits because they make different choices than parents.

        1. nonymous*

          heck, if I could just use some of my sick leave hours to take the dog to the vet. I’ve got >400 hours of unused sick leave right now.

      2. ThinkingOutloud*

        This is an interesting thought. Have you ever worked somewhere with this type of benefit? I think my company is probably at par with other companies our type/size for benefits, and this would likely be too progressive there. We do have a sabbatical program based on tenure, but nothing else unrelated to medical issues/childbirth/military leave.

        1. Other benefits count too*

          No, but I would love to work somewhere that did. Hell, I would love to out of principle, even if it wasn’t the ideal job. Yes, it is a very progressive idea, but as someone of childbearing years who is choosing to never have children (and more and more people are), parental leave is a monetary benefit (yes, it is a monetary benefit, even if there are other elements to it – and I am not discrediting those) that I will never see. Why should my choices be any less valuable?

          That said – I don’t know how this kind of leave would be administered. I’ve seen a lot of maternity leave administered through short term disability, which clearly my example would not qualify for. Personally, I would happily sign an agreement waiving any future parental leave in lieu of one or two sabbaticals during my tenure with a company (of comparable length and pay to any parental leave given – not asking for any more), but I know this would be controversial for some people. And if monetary adoption assistance were to be granted, same thing – could I get the same monetary assistance to pursue something that is a choice of mine?

          I definitely think this would be very difficult for a fledgling company to tackle…. but I’m willing to plant seeds like this where I see the opportunity :)

          Again – for the record – am NOT knocking parental leave here.

    8. Annie Moose*

      I’ve looked it up and my company treats it the same as a new birth. (interestingly, they also list foster care!) But it’s only 2 paid weeks (and then 10 weeks of FMLA, although you can do paid sick time). Aside from that, no benefits. This is a 100-person software company.

    9. k.k*

      I had to look this up, but apparently we only offer what’s legally required with FMLA. So 12 weeks unpaid for birth, adoption, or foster placement. Kinda lame. We’re a nonprofit and have otherwise really nice benefits (nonprofits tend to try and make up for lack of pay with benefits), so I’m surprised to see we don’t have any paid time off for this.

    10. ThinkingOutloud*

      Thanks for all the feedback! Good to see a wide spectrum. I was pretty surprised we didn’t have something like this in place already, but apparently, some of my upper management have heard that adoption related leave is an often overlooked element, not even taking the financial assistance in to account.

    11. Someone else*

      Parental leave-wise, there is no difference between adoption and the birth of a biological child for us. My company also offers an adoption assistance benefit, which is basically a smallish amount of money to help defray adoption costs. It’s definitely not enough to cover the entire expense of adoption (especially not private adoption) but it’s not insignificant either.

  45. Maria*

    I left my toxic, abusive job. When I gave my notice, my supervisor, who would ignore me, yell at me, and treat me like dirt, kept randomly saying, “You can stay- you don’t have to leave.” He later said that I was a good worker, but weird. (Takes one to know one!)

    Why would he say this?

    1. NoMoreMrFixit*

      In my experience it was because my manager from hell thought bullying = motivating and couldn’t tell the difference. Despite a 50% turnover rate during my last 2 years in that job. They truly don’t get that they are abusive.

      1. SparklingStars*

        Similar thing happened to me. My supervisor asked me “why would you want to leave us?” Um, because you make me cry every day?

        1. TheCupcakeCounter*

          That question is how I burned a bridge…technically I might have blown it up. Either way I laughed myself stupid and called the question asker a liar, a cheat, and an overall terrible person and manager. Shocked when I didn’t get booted from the building as he was the VP of Finance.

          1. Kelly White*

            When I quit my last job, my boss asked me why, and I actually laughed and said “you are kidding, right?” He wasn’t. I think I managed to cover myself. I was able to articulate it in a more professional way, but I was absolutely floored that he would act like he had no clue, and it certainly helped solidify my decision!

      2. Mrs. Fenris*

        My first boss was like that. He had no idea that he was abusing people and, just as bad, absolutely squelching any attempt they made at professional growth. He cut back my work load to the most menial possible stuff for several months before I left. And then he was truly shocked and hurt when I left. I really wanted to say, “come on. Really? I thought you were trying to make me quit. You didn’t really think this is how I wanted to spend the rest of my career or anything, did you?”

    2. Trillion*

      Recruiting in a PITA. And he probably does respect your work, but has no concept of good management or the feelings of anyone who’s not himself.

      But good for you for leaving.

    3. Reba*

      One time my spouse was laid off and the partner who was doing the laying off (by phone, we were traveling) ended the call with “We enjoyed working with you. There’s always a place for you at _______.”

      Except for… right now?

      1. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

        Were you on work travel or holiday? If the second, your spouse may have worked for my last manager at oldJob (who fired an employee while she was on holidays overseas with her entire family).

    4. Bea*

      He doesn’t realize his behavior is why you’re leaving. Classic abuser. They abuse you and when you leave, they love you and want to work things out. So when you’re back in the vulnerable spot BOOM abuse starts again.

    5. Annie Edison*

      I had something similar happen. When I quit my toxic job my manager held a meeting with absolutely everyone just to call me a traitor, and set an example for everyone by discussing “career planning at [company]” – which was if you leave we consider you as good as dead and will never take you back so you’d better think twice before you do that! She was an absolute bully and we were all terrified of her.

      She later called me into a private meeting and I went into it shaking. To my surprise, she told me she was asked to give me a second offer, but was honest with me that my new employer was too good to give up, and that I needed to walk away from this place and never look back. She said that she was always impressed by my work and that she was proud of me for making the decision to leave. It was a total shock and she was totally different from the person I’d come to know.

      I left that conversation thinking that maybe she wasn’t as horrible as I’d thought all this time, but that she was acting out of stress and fear of her own boss in order to keep her own job. The toxicity just trickled down from the very top and hurt everyone. Maybe it is something similar here, and your boss took the opportunity to be candid with you for once about how they really felt about your performance?

    6. strawberries and raspberries*

      Harriet Lerner refers to this in The Dance of Anger as “change back”- where someone gets so comfortable fighting with you all the time that when you do make a point to change (modifying your behavior, leaving the job, etc.) they want you to “change back” because your behavior change means they have give a little too. It’s his problem to figure out now.

      1. No Green No Haze*

        Timely book mention. I dropped in to try to pick up some anger management tips as I am livid about a work situation, and poof! my local library had it instantly available via ebook download.

        Tell me it will help me shave off the edges?

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Some people manage by crisis mongering. They create problems where there aren’t any problems and that is how they keep things moving along. In other words, they have no other management skills.

      So his crisis of the moment is that you announced you are leaving and now he has to hire someone. Another crisis, imagine that. He gave a weak attempt at talking you into staying. He may have even gone as far as telling others he was firing you, perhaps he thought you knew he said that. The part about being weird, to him anyone who does not behave like him is weird. These people don’t use our rule book and they don’t value what we value.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        I had a boss like that. She had a serious need to be seen as a problem solver. Our staff was competent and low drama and she didn’t have many serious problems to solve, so she would create them. Usually this would happen when her superiors who worked off site were in our building for a visit. She once lectured us for 15 minutes about having seen the same gum wrapper in the parking lot three days in a row, because conscientious employees would pick up litter on the way to their cars and how could she possibly trust us to do our jobs responsibly if we couldn’t even keep our parking lot clean?

        And when we all started resigning, she could not understanding. She thought she was such a supportive boss.

  46. Ann*

    What sort of team building activities do people actually find fun? We’d like to do another one, but don’t have any ideas.

    Last time we went to Top Golf (which is like a high tech driving range) for an afternoon, which worked pretty well. I think people liked it because it was pretty low pressure (many of us had no idea how to golf), but those who wanted to could compete against each other. There was also free food and alcohol – most people sat around and ate/drank and occasionally played a game. I suspect people also liked that it didn’t feel like anybody was forced to participate in anything.

      1. Ann*

        What’s a paint night, exactly? I’m picturing us all going to a coworkers house and helping him finish painting (which, to be fair, he might need), but I’m guessing that’s not what it is…

        1. Trillion*

          Haha! That’s great.

          You all get together (usually at a restaurant or studio) and paint a picture on canvas. It’s usually pretty simple. Even non-arty people seem to enjoy it (unless they are perfectionists).

          Look up PaintNite, Art on the Vine, or Painting with a Twist.

        2. Madeleine Matilda*

          It’s where everyone gets together each paints a painting and sips some drinks and eats some treats. Google paint night and you’ll find places that offer it.

    3. Trillion*

      Some people aren’t going to find ANYTHING at work fun. And there’s rarely an activity that EVERYONE finds fun, especially with a large group.

      Some suggestions:
      I agree with Amy on paint nights.
      Escape room
      Mini golf
      Go Karts
      A baseball game (tickets are usually cheaper than other sports since there’s so many games)
      Manicures (I personally hate this, but it was the only thing that I could get a team of 35 women to agree on)
      When all else fails, go out for food. Almost everyone has to eat, so food can be the great uniter.

      If you get to plan more than one of these, mix it up with something arty, something active, and something funny (like a comedy club) so that hopefully everyone will enjoy at least one activity.

      2. Lala*

        I wouldn’t suggest an escape room. That sounds a lot like torture, being forced to figure out puzzles while trapped in a room with a bunch of my coworkers. Anyone with any kind of claustrophobia or with most kinds of social anxiety is not going to think of that as a fun, low-key activity.

        1. Teal Green*

          This. I couldn’t even articulate why I refused to go to the escape room when my department did it as a team building activity. I just knew that the very idea made me want to scrape my skin off with my fingernails until I bled.

        2. SpaceNovice*

          Escape rooms are definitely a hit or miss. I love them, but I know my coworkers only had fun because of the company, not because of the escape room. They would’ve liked something else better even though they still had fun.

    4. grace*

      We just did a group expedition to breweries and restaurants for apps in the area — a bunch of us are at a different office, so it was fun to show them around our home. (Know your audience on this one – not everyone wants to drink. We’re just lucky our team does. :0) )

      Other things we’ve done that we enjoyed with our smaller team – escape rooms, bar+arcades, scavenger hunts in walkable cities, picnics at a local park, trivia nights, etc.

    5. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Never done this, but I’d imagine a board game night/couple of hours could be fun if your coworkers are generally into that sort of thing or the kind of people who are open to trying it. Especially team/cooperative games where the pressure would be lower.

      1. Becky*

        My department has an unofficial game night/potluck dinner once a month. We’ve been doing it for probably 2 years at least. It isn’t sponsored by the department or anything, we just have a number of people who like games. Anyone is invited-only rule is if you come you have to contribute food. We coordinate dinner (like, taco night, Dave brings tortillas, Polly brings meat, Amy brings salsa and cheese, Ben brings lettuce and tomato, etc) eat and play board games.
        Generally its the same people who come regularly with some occasional comers added in. I’ve discovered a lot of new games this way. (Cooperative games are awesome! I’d never played Pandemic before this group.)

        A few times we’ve had an official team activity of board games too.

    6. Kj*

      One of the those pottery-painting places where you can eat/drink while you paint was fun. Plus everyone made a mug so we all had colorful and unique mugs to drink out of for a while. My old team also did glassblowing, which was fun (but no drinking!) . I’d generally stay away from anything too athletic or too focused on alcohol.

    7. Struck by Lightning*

      Gotta admit that I’m in the crowd that pretty much loathes ANYTHING labeled team building. Lunch on work time and dime is bearable if you can find someplace that can accommodate all the dietary restrictions.

      Absolutely anything after hours is a flat no go for most of my office for family or commute reasons. Absolutely anything with a physical component is a solid not possible for several people in my office. Anything requiring spending even a small amount of money means a few people in my office will be eating ramen to afford it.

      Better option IME…figure out what is wrong in the way the workplace is operating that makes them unhappy and in need of team building and fix THAT. Normal, functional offices don’t need team building in the first place.

    8. Another Software Engineer*

      My company has done:

      – go-kart racing
      – casino night (w/ fake money)
      – laser tag
      – ropes course
      – curling
      – escape room
      – skeet shooting

    9. Lora*

      Have been to chili cook-offs and homebrewing contests that went over well. Board games and museum tours followed by lunch were also a hit.

    10. C.*

      I need a redo on Top Golf, because the only time I did it was a special event where they set up a Top Golf course on an NFL football field, which was impressive, but it was mid-July with a heat index of 115 and we were all basically waiting for death to come. I’ve heard the normal, indoor experience is great regardless of your interest in golf, but even the people who loved golf were ready to tap out after 15 minutes.

      Although I guess that was a good employee bonding activity, because we all had fun trying to figure out scientifically why half a beer + insane heat made us feel hungover.

    11. Ambpersand*

      Some of our most popular ones were a Murder Mystery party (one group to be the actors, and everyone else had groups to “solve” the case by working together with the clues), and a holiday gingerbread house building contest. For the gingerbread house building contest we had fake cash that the teams had to use to buy their decorating/candy supplies, and offered “sabotages” for sale (think Cutthroat Kitchen) that they could use on other teams (can’t speak to each other for 5 minutes, could only decorate using a non-dominant hand for 10 minutes, only one person could decorate at a time for 15 minutes, etc), but every decision had to be made by the team as a whole. It was a huge hit.

      1. Ambpersand*

        I should also clarify that these were done on-site in large conference rooms, lunch was catered by local restaurants on the company dime, and everyone got a Friday afternoon off from work to do the group activity. No traveling or money spent by anyone, and you could choose to sit out if you were adamant about not participating or had an important meeting/project to work on.

    12. nonymous*

      In my work group, it really helps to have it during office hours (obviously without the expectation that people make up the work later in the week). If events are held outside of normal office hours, we run into conflicts with childcare and other commitments.

      However, my husband’s company had good success with events that were highly inclusive and with generous budgets during off hours. One time they rented the entire zoo. A few times they’ve had catered meals with full hosted bar service. Another time there was a catered barbecue at the local city park with ice cream trucks and face painting.

  47. Goya de la Mancha*

    What snack/treat can you NOT live without having at/in your desk:

    I have peppermints on top of my desk for all and any to enjoy. They help soothe many an ailments (upset stomach, sore throat, bad breath, etc.) and are cheap enough that I don’t mind supplying them for all. BUT in my locked desk drawer? DOVE dark chocolate sea salt caramels – I don’t share those ;)

    1. Murphy*

      Trail mix. It’s great because I can just grab a handful whenever I’m a bit hungry, or I can eat more if my lunch has just completely worn off.

    4. Trillion*

      Hot Chocolate
      Oatmeal
      Hot Sauce packets (gross I know. I like to pop one of them for a mid-day low-calorie zing when my mouth is craving stimulation)
      Nuts (I miss those, but have a temp crown for a few more days!)

      But nothing, nothing, beats dark chocolate. Right on :)

    5. grace*

      Smartfood white cheddar popcorn!! I’m addicted – I have to give the bag to my coworker to keep away from me so I don’t eat an entire bag in just a few days lol.

      I always have gum, though, that’s up for anyone to have a piece if they want.

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        OMG, I’m not in the US right now and I’m embarrassed at how much I miss Smartfood! I’d be terrified eating it at work, though, because of how messy it is–all that gunk on your hands.

      2. Lynca*

        When I was first pregnant we did a conference. Everything set me off except Smartfood White Cheddar Popcorn. All of my coworkers snagged extra bags for me to eat.

    6. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Currently I have a variety of nuts and turkey jerky. (Well, I had turkey jerky but I just ate it all for lunch.) Plus some sort of chocolate and mints.

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        I too am a jerky fan – we have a food stand in our local market that makes venison jerky and ohhh my. I always have some in my desk drawer. Luckily all my co-workers hate it so I don’t have to share. And tomorrow I get to replenish the stock for the upcoming week and see what interesting meat the stall owner has tried to jerky-fy this week (he experiments and some are good, some not so good – I’ll tell you about the dried chilli squid sometime, but not here).

    8. C.*

      I worked at a place that had Costco-sized containers of Ritz crackers and peanut butter (crunchy and smooth) on every floor, and I crave it all the time now.

    9. Crylo Ren*

      I have an assortment of different kinds of tea on my desk.

      Inside my desk: Annie’s bunny fruit snacks. They’re my guilty pleasure. Not necessarily because they are super unhealthy, but apparently because only toddlers eat fruit snacks and I am a toddler for enjoying them. I was judged very harshly the one time a random coworker walked by my desk and caught me with a packet :(

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Fruit snacks are my favorite part of the kid tray at the cinema. I get that because it comes with a tiny drink and just enough popcorn for me, but also hey, fruit snacks. :)

        1. Crylo Ren*

          Yes!!! I get the kids combo every time I go to the movies! It seriously changed my movie-going experience when I realized it was an option.

    11. Bea*

      Goldfish crackers…because I’m forever 8 years old. I’m a minute away from keeping juice boxes in my “snack cupboard”.

      1. No Green No Haze*

        Goldfish crackers are IT.

        I caused something of a situation when I started bringing them to long project days; someone escalated to the 30 oz carton, and then a pissing match developed between the facility renter and the facility owner, who wished to battle about the expanding smorgasbord. Things got what I might call out of hand.

      2. Totally Minnie*

        Is it just me, or are the rainbow colored goldfish somehow more delicious than the plain orange ones?

    13. Kat*

      On top of my desk for everyone’s access, I have a bowl of butterscotch candies. They’re hugely popular and I go through about half a bag per week. Hidden in my lunch bag I have peanut butter crackers, Hershey’s kisses, and sometimes granola bars.

  48. Amber Rose*

    I can’t seem to stop making mistakes this week. I don’t know what’s wrong with me. D:
    So I got a small bonsai tree (it’s a ficus!) for my desk to try and cheer myself up. Hopefully it doesn’t die.

    There’s been a lot whispering and meetings in boardrooms. Please join me in crossed fingers and toes that it means we’re moving, rather than something more ominous.

    1. Short & Dumpy*

      just a heads up so you don’t freak out if it happens…

      Several types of ficus will drop their leaves and grow new ones if the type of light they receive changes suddenly. It doesn’t mean they’re dying or even sick…it’s a natural thing they do. My mom almost threw one of mine out that she was keeping for me during a summer job…thankfully she mentioned it to me before she did it! That particular ficus is now well over 20 years old and has done a total leaf drop every move of its life :)

      1. Amber Rose*

        Oh, good! I gave one to my husband too and he told me he thought it was dying for that reason. Mine seems to be OK but I don’t think the light in my cube is much different from what it got before.

        I’ll let him know. :)

      2. Oxford Coma*

        I have a full-sized ficus at home doing this right now. Thank you! I was about to toss it; it looks awful.

  49. New Offer*

    My experience with counter offering so far has been terrible. The first time I did it for my current job, I was so anxious and insecure about it. When I laid out that I was bringing all this additional experience, the recruiter said no, they couldn’t go up any higher. It was the day before Christmas so knowing folks would be unavailable for the next 7 to 10 days, I accepted the position. 8 months down the road, more people join the team, and my boss mentions she had to argue with the recruiter to pay a new hire $5k more or they would have lost her. I mentioned (professionally) that it happened with me, she was surprised to find that the recruiter did not bring the counter offer to her.

    This week, I was offered a job that was in the middle of the range I had provided. But after going through the interviews, I realized I am bringing so much more experience to the position above and beyond what they were looking for. Unlike the last time, I went on the call with great confidence and asked for 3% more (which was still under the top of the range I provided), and a 5% sign on bonus because I’m going to lose the one from my current employer by 2 weeks. I didn’t ask for the full value of the bonus, just half of it to help the loss. The recruiter responded that they probably wouldn’t be able to do either of those things, but could bring it to the manager if I *really wanted*. Yes, please.

    WHY is recruiting so hostile? I keep reading all these threads and forums and advice columns that say that if done respectfully and professionally, they should be receptive to it, or at least respectful in their response. It’s only ever been hostile for me but maybe I’m just doing it all wrong :/

    1. analytica*

      I guess I don’t read these responses as hostile, just that the recruiters are going to press back a little and see if you accept it. Since this is a negotiation, it’s like a poker game where you take stances and try to see if your opponents are bluffing. Both of you are looking out for your own interests, but it can be done in a straightforward and respectful way.

      Were these responses worded harshly or condescendingly?

      1. New Offer*

        The first one was not hostile, per say, just very frank with no wiggle room.

        The second one is harder to get across in text, especially without being able to even bold or italicize, but it was along the lines of being put off by my request. Her response was ‘Yeeaaaaa….we’re not going to be able to do either of those’ and stated that their offer was already more than I was making (which, she does not actually know that, previous salary was never discussed). She didn’t want to bring my ask to the manager but would ‘if I really wanted her to’, so I responded that I would appreciate if she did (and added the justification for the ask again).

        Maybe I am being too sensitive, but from all the advice I had read I was expecting something more along the lines of ‘that’s higher than we planned, but let me see what we can do’ or just ‘I’ll run that by [hiring manager] etc., but I’m not sure we can meet it, etc’, not two flat-out ‘Nos’ without more insistence. I just wish these things were a bit more straightforward.

        It’s making me doubt whether or not my requests were overreaching but I’ve checked with several friends and colleagues with more experience doing so and it seems I’ve done everything right so far.

        1. WellRed*

          At what point should you be speaking with the hiring manager so you can negotiate rather than through the recruiter? (I genuinely don’t know).

  50. Kathleen_A*

    What do you do when you have a very obvious injury – the type of injury that you really can’t blame someone for noticing and wondering about – and maybe even asking about? Do you fess up to coworkers or try to pass it off as nothing or something else?

    I had a stomach bug on Monday, and one time after throwing up, I passed out face-first on the floor. And I literally mean “face-first.” You should see my face. I look like I’ve taken up boxing as a hobby or like a poster for a battered women’s shelter. I don’t blame anybody for wondering WTH happened to me, and I don’t even blame them for asking.

    I don’t embarrass easily, so what I’ve been doing is bringing it up before they ask, and I tell the literal truth. But do other people have a better approach? Or what would you do when you don’t want to tell the literal truth?

    1. Trillion*

      I’m a jokester about this stuff, so I start making up outlandish (and clearly fake) lies about my injuries (which are plentiful because I am klutzy). I never joke about domestic violence or pregnancy, but I’ll tell you all about the bar fight I was in with a peg-legged pirate.

      If I were you, I’d find it hilarious to wait until someone is clearly distracted by or staring at my face injury and say “what, what is it, is there something on my face?” So corny. I love it.

      1. Kathleen_A*

        That does sound like a lot of fun, but I’d worry that people would think I was making up these elaborate stories to cover up the Awful Truth. I don’t want to worry people and make them think I’m being abused or anything.

        1. Trillion*

          Whoops, yeah, I usually follow up with the mundane reason. “Nah, I just fell and landed on my face. I’m good now.”

          Them: *stares at bandaged hand*
          Me: “Got in a fight with a blender. I bought one of those new Tesla blenders that have AI installed, but I think it glitched out or something. It registered my hand as a bunch of bananas and started making a smoothie when I was reaching in to get a spoon I dropped.”
          Them: “…. Really?”
          Me: “No, I scraped it up when I fell off my bike because I’m Klutzy™.”

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      That sounds so painful!!!

      I’d probably just tell the truth and laugh it off, but I’m a huge klutz.

      1. Kathleen_A*

        Oh, Lordy, it sure is. I’m getting better, but even aside from the very spectacular bruising, somehow I also gouged the bridge of my nose (where? no idea. somewhere between being upright and being flat on the bedroom floor), and it makes wearing glasses very painful. I seldom miss wearing contacts, but I am today.

    3. Murphy*

      I’d probably do the “You should see the other guy!” and then just a short version “Seriously though, I just fell. I’m ok.”

    5. Aurion*

      I’m known for getting injured (I play sports) to the point my coworkers are usually going “what did you do now?!”. And I attract ridiculous injuries and freak accidents (tore a muscle in my arm handling a three-pound pole, scrape the hell out of my eyeball washing my face, etc etc), so I don’t even have to embellish! Truth is stranger than fiction.

      I usually just laugh it off with “being awesome, that’s what” or tell the honest truth of what happened (“stabbed myself with a durian”).

      1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        Better than stabbing the durian! Humans don’t smell nearly as bad when you break the skin.

        1. Aurion*

          I hold a grudge towards durians to this day because of the incident. :D (And they smell awful to me anyway, so extra justification!)

          1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

            I had the opportunity to try durian ice cream once — and I did, because I’m adventuresome when it comes to food.

            MISTAKE. OH GOD, MISTAKE.

            I’ve described the experience as “getting kicked in the sinuses with a sweaty foot covered in rotten mango.”

            2. Parenthetically*

              I have solemnly sworn never to eat it — when I lived in Asia in college, my nearest supermarket carried it… sometimes? when it was in season? I dunno, but at some points when I was living there I went to pick up my weekly stash of instant noodles and was olfactorily assaulted by the cut-up durian they were selling from a table at the front of the store.

              I always said it smelled like Tropical Fresh(TM) Ammonia.

            3. SpaceNovice*

              Durian is fun in the way that there’s no middle ground: you love it or you absolutely think it’s the worst taste and smell in the entire world and it should be banned from existence.

              (I’m actually in the former camp. More for me!)

    8. Anony*

      I am klutzy and I faint a lot. I usually just tell the truth about what happened because being evasive would look weird. I actually had a social worker call me from the hospital once because apparently my file had been flagged for possible domestic violence. Luckily most of my accidents happen very publicly.

      1. Kathleen_A*

        Yes, I’m pretty sure I know why the X-ray tech asked certain questions! But hey, it’s a good thing that they do, so that’s OK.

    9. Mephyle*

      This is something about your (collective “you”_ culture that I don’t understand. Why would you want to hide the truth and quite likely have people imagine a worse situation than what it really is? Or give them a smart-aleck answer and make them feel bad for caring about you?

      1. Kathleen_A*

        Much as I enjoy a smart-ass answer, I kind of agree with you. Some people might be asking out of simple curiosity, but when my coworkers – most of whom quite like me, I’m pretty sure – take one look and say, “Oh, my God, what happened?” I’m pretty sure they want to know because they care. So I always give the real reason. I just wondered what other people did, particularly those who for whatever reason don’t want to give the real reason.

    10. Mimmy*

      This past November, I slipped and did a total face plant in the hallway. Had an instant GIANT goose egg – I had work the next day, so thankfully the size had gone down enough by then to not look as ghastly. However, the day after that, I noticed that both of my eyes were black. I was like “awwwww crap!” I decided to not say anything unless asked – amazingly, only one person asked me what had happened and another person said she had noticed my eyes but thought I’d had some sort of surgery. Even then, I chose not to make a big deal out of it – I just gave a straightforward explanation and nobody jumped to unnecessary conclusions. I was quite relieved!

    11. Close Bracket*

      I told people once that I was attacked by a Yeti. I had tripped and faceplanted on concrete while running.

    12. This Daydreamer*

      “Ugh. You REALLY don’t want to know the details. Let’s just say I fell.” Of course, that will probably make them more curious, but at least you warned them.

      Laugh about it, don’t be ashamed, and don’t try to hide it. I’d also say don’t mention it before they do unless they give you a look like they are trying to figure out how to ask in a sensitive way so you know that they aren’t judging you.

      I work at a DV shelter. I really hope I don’t ever have to deal with this at work.

  51. Murphy*

    My boss frequently doesn’t come into the office and doesn’t tell me that we won’t be in. And not just for a day at a time. He’ll go on travel and not tell me. He hasn’t been in since last Thursday. I have no idea where he is, and the few times that I’ve emailed him first thing in the morning, he’s taken hours to get back to me (unusual for him) so I’m wondering if he’s in a different timezone. How can I approach this subject with him?

    1. BeepBoopBeep*

      I deal with this all the time with my current boss. Depends how many times you have tried to fix it (sounds like you haven’t yet, and why you are asking for advice). The point where I am, I have tried to fix it so many times that I have to just take it in stride and make critical decisions without them and let them know the result. This is a good skill to have though, because it has definitely made me more decisive, independent, and better at weighing difficult decisions.

      I would just be straightforward, and I would focus on what YOU can do to make it easier. I would say something like “Hey Fergus, sometimes I email you with an important question, and especially lately, it has taken hours to get back to me. It is important for my productivity/time management/deadlines etc. to be able to have the decision/information from you fairly quickly, is there a better form of communication I should use? Would you rather I proceed with the decision on my own so as to not hold up my other coworkers/deadlines?”
      If you two are particularly close, I might add something about noticing the change in behavior and wanting to make sure everything was ok.

      I also think it is reasonable to ask your boss to put their travels in a shared calendar. They may or may not follow up with that though- but maybe your boss just doesn’t know their absence is affecting you in this way.

      1. Murphy*

        It’s not so much him not getting back to me right away, that doesn’t bother me (though a heads up that he may be out of touch would be nice.) I’d just like to know if he’s going to be out, especially on travel. There’s not much I can do to make it easier for him to do that. I guess I’m not sure how to ask without seeming like I’m demanding it.

        I can see his calendar. Sometimes when he doesn’t come in, I’ll look and I can see flights. This week I can just see that he declined some meetings and there’s something all week that’s private.

        1. nonymous*

          Maybe try having a stand up meeting once a week? I have a boss that can be scatterbrained about this stuff, but he wouldn’t deliberately tell me otherwise if I asked him point blank: “Are you travelling for work anytime next week?”

      1. Murphy*

        It’s less that he’s frequently out of the office, and more that frequently when he is out of the office, I have no idea that he’s going to be out, when he’s coming back, or where he is.

    3. Delta Delta*

      I used to work for a boss who did this. The fun twist is that when people would say, “hey, next time let us know because people are looking for you,” she’d get all jerky and say, “I’m the boss. I get to decide when I”m here and when I’m not.” Not sad to not work for that petty tyrant anymore.

      1. Murphy*

        Sometimes other people know! Once someone asked me “When’s Fergus coming back from Hawaii?” I had had no idea he was in Hawaii!

    4. Babayaga*

      Ugh, I’m sorry. I have been a flavor of this boss. We had a shared calendar though, so people could see that I would be off. I just didn’t go around telling people because my boss would get really upset that I wouldn’t be in the office and rile everyone else up.

  52. Christina*

    Interviewing with a nonprofit start-up–suggestions?

    I’m interviewing with a business incubator nonprofit that’s just starting to hire full-time staff (they have a CEO, CFO, and business development director so far, and are hiring for a program and events mgr). Technically they’ve been around 3 years, but for the past 2-ish years have been relying mostly on their founding orgs (a microlender and another incubator, both well-established and regarded). So far the process has been good, but I got some little yellow flags when I interviewed with the person in the director role. She seemed pretty young with not a ton of direct experience in this area (she has an MBA and has interned/worked at some start-ups) and just kind of all over the place. I didn’t get the same sense from the CEO, but I’d be working closely with the director.

    My question is, for those of you who have interviewed with startups or specifically startup nonprofits, what are other yellow flags I should keep an eye out for or are there any questions you’d be asking?

    I’d like to meet at least once more with the CEO and director together, and I’d like to meet the CFO. I want to ask more about their budget plan and risks, their measures of success (I got two different answers so far). Based on what I’ve learned about the role so far, I’m also planning to ask what room their is to negotiate salary–I think for what they’re asking this role to do (and where I’m coming from and comparable roles at other orgs), they need to come up about 18-20% from the high end of the range they posted.

  53. Bathroom Bothers*

    Bathroom topic ahead. You’ve been warned.

    I’m in an office with about ten people (I’m the only woman, the rest are men) and one single-stall bathroom. And ever since we had some new guys start, there are… wet spots in front of the toilet at least a couple times a day and I often find the seat with spots on it as well.

    It’s possible that maybe the water pressure increased or something that’s causing water to splash out when the toilet flushes, but based on the timing of when this started happening, I kinda doubt it (plus, I always check after I flush and I’ve never seen any over-flushing.) Still, that’s the way I tried to bring it up – the other day, a couple of us were discussing the possibility of a renovation project for our bathroom and I mentioned, “Oh, yeah, and hopefully Plumbing can fix the water pressure, since it keeps over-flushing and leaving droplets on the floor.” One of the guys answered jokingly with “Are you sure that’s the cause, or is it human error?” I just responded something like, “Well, I’m not the one to address that if it is, I’m just assuming it’s the toilet’s fault because I don’t want to place any blame. That’s up to all the guys to figure out if you think there’s something else going on.”

    I know there’s never any good answer to bathroom awkwardness, but that’s the most I can say, right? I’m hoping maybe that conversation was enough that the couple of guys in that conversation might bring it up privately, or at least be more aware of the condition of the bathroom or… something? Is there any other possible way to address this discretely? I don’t know, I’m just tired of having to clean off the seat and floor half the time when I use the bathroom.

    1. Emily S.*

      Oh man, I’m sorry you have to deal with this. It seems wrong that there isn’t a dedicated ladies room!

      I’m not sure how to address it, sorry.

      1. Bathroom Bothers*

        I don’t at all mind the use of a single-stall, non-designated bathroom. I actually prefer this setup – in this case, I would be walking the full length of the building for no good reason multiple times a day to use the other bathroom on the opposite end of the hall if they were to assign the bathrooms. And, anyone can be messy anyway, male or female – I’m not looking to have the bathrooms reassigned just because one person is being gross.

        1. AMT*

          Yeah, I’m a trans guy who sits down to pee and I hate being blamed for stuff like this. I’m sure the fastidious not-trans guys out there hate it too. I also dealt with this problem plenty of times when I used women’s bathrooms because of the whole pee-hovering thing. This is more of a gross person thing than a gender thing.

    2. fposte*

      I think your brief time in paradise when you didn’t have to wipe down the seat is gone.

      I do think what you said was never going to be direct enough–it really needs to be “Hey, coworkers, people are leaving fluid [if you don’t want to be more specific] on the seat and in front of the toilet. Can people make sure to check the are and wipe it down if necessary when they’re through?”

      The problem is that most people don’t remember to do that or want to do that or think it applies to them, so it’s not likely to make your problem go away. But if you want to make one more intervention try, that’s what I’d go with.

      1. Bathroom Bothers*

        I know that was definitely not direct in any way – I’ve been annoyed by this for quite a while, but I don’t feel comfortable bringing it up as an issue, especially as I am both the youngest person in the office and the only woman, so I don’t want to be seen as the one fussing about cleaning up bathrooms. Since we were already discussing the potential for a bathroom renovation, that was the first time I felt like the conversation was close enough to breach the topic, but I know there’s very little chance that it will have any effect. There’s just no timing where something like your script would not be incredibly awkward and out of the blue in my office, unfortunately, so I don’t know of any other options to address it.

        1. fposte*

          Given that it’s not all that likely to have an effect, I wouldn’t work hard at finding a way to deliver the speech anyway. I think you just have to up your wipe game. I get that it’s gross if you’re not used to it, but it’s pretty standard at a lot of places.

    3. Goya de la Mancha*

      I don’t think you can prevent anything…but I would for sure ask for some bleach/disinfecting wipes to be left in the bathroom.

    4. TheCupcakeCounter*

      I’ve been told by cleaning crew (and witnessing it) that the ladies room at my work is 10x worse than the mens room. Apparently we have a lot of ladies here who like to do the squat and hover thing and they are terrible at it. Sit your asses down if you can’t hit the hole.

      1. YuliaC*

        Yep same here, most of the seats in a dedicated ladies bathroom I have to use are always sprayed by the hoverers. Sigh. If they don’t feel like sitting down, they should be wiping it after themselves. But that just is not going to happen. OP, I don’t think there is any chance to get through to those who don’t care where they spray.

      2. Bathroom Bothers*

        This is consistently on the rim of the toilet with the seat up (but in the center front where the seat doesn’t cover all of it once lowered) and I am the only woman using this toilet and definitely do not hover or cause any mess. If this is not caused by the toilet over-flushing, it is definitely a man in this case.

      3. Ambpersand*

        This reminds me of when I was in Amsterdam last summer and used a private restroom during a wine tasting… The woman running the tasting caught my attention as I was leaving to go back to my seat and asked if I sat down while going to the restroom and I was super confused (of course I sat down, what else would I do?)- until she told me they’d had a huge problem with female tourists straddling the toilet and STANDING up to pee and getting it all over the seat and floor. Then they would flush and leave the mess. I still shudder to think about it.

      4. Parenthetically*

        Last summer I was in a (perfectly clean) public restroom at a national park and heard a mother lecture her daughters with an emphasis usually reserved for far more serious topics to NEVER, EVER, DON’T YOU DARE, sit down on the toilet seat. I guess I never think about it. Haven’t carked it yet so I reckon it’s fine.

    5. Close Bracket*

      You need that beloved old rest room sign:

      If you sprinkle
      When you tinkle
      Please be neat
      And wipe the seat

      I’m not even sure if I’m being serious or not.

      1. This Daydreamer*

        I was going to suggest the same, only with “be a sweetie/ and wipe the seatie.” Maybe add some clip art of cute little bunnies and chicks playing in the grass.

        The main problem is that you’ll be dealing with vomit instead of pee.

  54. Leah*

    Is it normal to be rejected by internal vacancies that you’re 100% qualified for with automatic e-mail rejections? I’ve applied for a few vacancies in my company using their internal job search tool, and so far I only got messages that say “thanks for the interest but we’ve gone forward with a different candidate”, even when the vacancy is still open and people are still able to apply for it. I don’t want to take it too personal when no one contacts me before I get the dreaded rejection message, but I don’t understand why I’m not being considered for these internal vacancies, given that my qualifications match what they’re looking for.

    1. Trillion*

      A) It’s possible the system is wonky. I’ve encountered this in my HR Technology career. Perhaps they have a knock-out question incorrectly configured in the application (or a qualification they aren’t publishing which would be pretty rude). This could be especially true if your company uses Workday. Also, double check that you’re applying correctly (i.e. if there’s a separate internal application site or process, make sure you’re using that).

      B) Would you feel comfortable in meeting with one of the recruiters or your HR Rep about it? You could bring it up in such a way that you want to know what areas you need to work on to better your chances of getting past the auto reject and actually getting an interview. If you frame it in a career-growth way and not a complaining way (not judging, I’d be super annoyed to), that may come across better.

      1. Leah*

        The company is a Big one, and so they have their own system on the intranet. I know I’m applying correctly as well, so that’s not it. About the recruiter… that’s actually not a bad idea at all! I’d thought about contacting the recruiter before, but I didn’t know what to say that wouldn’t make me sound entitled (I thought calling them unexpectedly would give a “how DARE u reject me??” vibe and wouldn’t help with future applications), but asking for feedback for future applications makes sense. I might contact them next week regarding the most recent rejection I received. Thank you!!

        1. Trillion*

          I once got a rejection email, then a second one two days later for the same position. I emailed the recruiter just to let her know that her system is glitchy (worded much more professionally than that!) and it turns out they weren’t trying to reject me at all. Got an interview! (But not the job :( )

          Good luck!

      2. The New Wanderer*

        I was auto-rejected by a company where I met the job description 99%. Since I know they didn’t see my resume or cover letter, I found a recruiting manager via LinkedIn and sent a polite message along the lines of, “I’m really interested in this position and have the qualifications (which he could verify on my profile), but the system auto-rejected me. Is it possible to be considered for it?”

        He did get back to me the next day and forwarded me on to the appropriate recruiter. Turns out I got the “wrong” degree 20 years ago and my completely and totally relevant work experience since wasn’t sufficient, but hey, they did respond.

    2. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

      No, we always call internal applicants directly. Either the recruiter, if they don’t meet minimum requirements and can be screened out immediately, or hiring manager, if they’ve been through the interview process.

      But mine is a company that encourages professional development and loves to hire internally, so it behooves us to make it a pleasant experience.

  55. Intern In Transition*

    I’m currently in a full-time internship program that’s coming to an end in the next three months. I’m starting to look for other opportunities, both due to the short-term nature of this position (I can’t afford to be without work when it ends) and because of some personality issues. I’m excited about some of these opportunities, but quite a few have ties with the office I’m working with now. How can I handle this when it comes time to interview/if I leave early? I’m timing the positions so that the busy season will be over at work, but I worry that it will get back to my employer.

    1. ContentWrangler*

      Your employer knows that you need a job when the internship ends in 3-months. Internships are by definition temporary – any reasonable boss knows you have to be thinking about your next move. In most internship programs, it would be totally normal for you to be looking for jobs and for your employer to allow some flexibility for interviewing.
      Leaving the internship early might be a problem if you’re talking like a month early and you’d be leaving them high and dry. Ideally you would stay for the full time you committed.

      Do you think your internship employer is planning on offering you a permanent position and that’s why you’re worried about them hearing that you’re job hunting?

      1. Intern In Transition*

        No, they don’t have the funding. We’re talking about a month early, yes. I wouldn’t take a job if they expected me to drop everything during the busy season, but anything past then I would be willing to walk.

        I think at the end of the day what I’m fretting over is:
        1. My sense of duty/what happens if my internship employer finds out I’m jumping ship early (even though they know they can’t offer me a position)
        2. The toxic coworker bad-mouthing me for leaving early (even though he probably will even if I stayed the entire time)
        3. Not wanting to pass up opportunities that are a really good fit because of my sense of duty to a job that isn’t going to hire me in the end

        1. Dot*

          I would deal with 1 & 2 when they happen (if they happen at all) and not worry about them too much. It’s an internship with no possibility of resulting in a job, they should not expect you to just sit around and not plan ahead (and if they do they’re delusional jerks). You should definitely start looking, most of the time job searches take longer than you expect anyway. Also applying for jobs is not the same as accepting a job position, you’re just looking not yet buying (idk if that made sense).
          Maybe there’s even a way to discuss this with your future employer in the negotiation stage. I think it reflects well on people to not drop their current employer immediately.

          But yeah no. 3 is very important and is what matters the most in a few months/years in your career. Good luck on your job search!

  56. Middle Manager*

    I work for a small cultural non-profit. I unfortunately have had to use bereavement leave recently, and am curious if three days for an immediate family member is really the standard in the non-profit world. Since monetary benefits are few, I want to propose that they increase the number of days to five. If you work for a non-profit, what’s your employer’s bereavement policy?

    1. annn*

      Midsized nonprofit. We get two days bereavement and that covers immediate family up to grandparents, cousins, and aunts/uncles.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Ditto, but I do think if an employee lost a spouse or a child (or a parent if the circumstances were unusual, which sounds odd to say – but most people in middle aged lose their elderly parents, unfortunately) our company would work out something special for that. The three days is for like, travelling to the funeral and being with family, not like … trying to make sense of your new irreparably ruined life.

        1. nonymous*

          > not like … trying to make sense of your new irreparably ruined life.

          My first job got mad when I said I needed a week (using PTO!) to deal with the fallout of Dad dying. I’m my mom’s only relative in the States. If someone can figure out how to do all the funeral and legal stuff in two working days, more power to them. I was not able to at the ripe age of 21.

          1. Thursday Next*

            That’s really rough. I’m sorry you had to deal with your job being so unreasonable at such a difficult time.

    2. Katriona*

      I’m sorry for your loss.

      I was working for a nonprofit when my dad died unexpectedly, and I was out for two weeks. But it was a tiny organization so there weren’t really any policies in place; I probably could have taken more time if I’d needed it but I didn’t feel right being out longer than that since there wasn’t really anyone to replace me.

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Large nonprofit. No bereavement leave; we just use PTO (of which we have a generous amount).

    5. Anonygrouse*

      Mid-size public health nonprofit. We get five paid days for immediate family (up to grandparents and inlaws). For others you have to use PTO or unpaid leave.

    7. Kathleen_A*

      I work for a non-profit and ours is three as well. Formally, anyway. They have been a lot more flexible in some situations, though, e.g., death of a spouse or child – or a parent, if that involves a lot of financial stuff. But for an ordinary funeral, it’s three days.

    8. JanetM*

      State university — five days for immediate family (spouse, child or step-child, or parent or step-parent), otherwise three days (grandparent, grandchild, parent-inlaw, foster parent, brother, sister, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, daughter-in-law, or son-in-law).

      And I’m sorry for your loss.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        How strange that they go out of their way to clarify that foster parent is less than step parent.

        1. Oxford Coma*

          That sort of thing creates bad blood. A colleague of mine was quite upset last year because his grandmother passed, and she had raised him. Leave for a parent was twice as long as leave for a grandparent, with no wiggle room for nontraditional family structure.

          1. Lil Fidget*

            Yeah my coworker had a very close personal friend die tragically young. It sounded like under very tragic circumstances. Technically, he would not have been eligible for any bereavement leave. I remember him saying that he barely knew his cousins, who were covered, and could he “trade” one. (My boss privately gave him a break, but it was outside of the rules). On the other hand, I guess in the case of bad employees you need to be able to draw the line somewhere or they’ll have a new friend / second cousin die every week.

          2. AMT*

            My old workplace didn’t even count grandparents. When I asked HR (politely) if there was anything that could be done, they actually *yelled* at me. It would’ve been worse if I’d been really close to this relative, which I wasn’t, but still…yeesh. Ended up taking PTO.

          3. Totally Minnie*

            This is why I’m glad my org (public sector) just rewrote the family/bereavement leave policy to include in-laws, all step and foster relatives and even close non-relatives. I can’t remember the exact wording, but it’s something like “others sufficiently close to a familial relationship.”

            We get three days of bereavement leave if the funeral is held in-state, or five days if you have to travel out of state. But if someone decides to use PTO to extend that time off, no one’s ever been given push back that I know of. We even have leave donation so if you’re out of PTO people can give you extra.

    9. Anecdata*

      Midsized non-profit; and on some people’s contracts it’s 3 days; and some people have none (technically; but a lot of managers would give it off-the-record).

    10. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

      I’m in a mid-sized not-for-profit, and we do 3 days for immediate family (up to grandparents, aunts, and uncles) and 5 days if travel over 500 miles is required. We do allow (and encourage our managers to allow if business needs let) employees to use PTO for any additional time beyond that.

      I’m very sorry for your loss.

      1. Middle Manager*

        Thank you all for the information and the sympathy. Lil Fidget is correct, there is no leave for “trying to make sense of your new irreparably ruined life.” I haven’t used much PTO because of it as I know I’ll need it later. I think I will go ahead and make the five day suggestion with the understanding that I don’t expect it to be retroactive. The organization has had to eliminate some benefits over the years, and this is one that would be a kindness and really wouldn’t cost them much at all.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          To be fair, I think maybe FMLA might come up for someone who was traumatized by a recent death. Someone else could weigh in better than I.

          1. Middle Manager*

            No FMLA coverage since it’s a small organization – I think the cut-off is 50 employees. Otherwise I think it would work if a person’s doctor recommended it. I imagine that people who aren’t covered by FMLA could use short-term disability the same way.

          2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

            FMLA also doesn’t provide pay; it just prevents your employer from firing you for using the leave.

    11. Bea*

      I’ve found that policy tends to state 3 days but depending on your management and circumstances they may have room to accommodate a longer leave. I’m so sorry for your loss

    12. Arjay*

      We get five days paid for immediate family and two days paid for extended family. Managers are pretty reasonable about people needing more time through adding PTO or unpaid leave. We had an employee lose her mom suddenly who had to deal with a lot of family and estate issues and she was able to take an unpaid personal leave, separate from bereavement time.

    13. Lemon Zinger*

      I work at a large nonprofit university. We get three days of bereavement leave if the funeral is held in-state and five days if it’s out-of-state.

      They don’t put any restrictions or limitations on how the deceased is related to the employer, thank goodness.

    14. i go anon every time i disclose my workplace...*

      At PayPal, if your partner, child, or stepchild dies, you get a full month of bereavement time. Other members of immediate family is 3-5 days, but there’s the option of more with manager discretion. We also have unlimited PTO (sick and vacation) that we are responsible for self-managing, and a very generous personal leave available to us for other non-medical personal issues, so assuming you don’t work for a huge jerk of a direct manager, you could take as much time as you need for a parent or other close relative.

    15. Rhymetime*

      I’m sorry to hear you lost a loved one. At the large nonprofit where I work, we get three paid days if the person who died is within 500 miles of where you live, and five paid days if the location is farther. This is all on the honor system, no proof required. For longer periods, you have to use vacation time.

    16. JerseyGirlin*

      Im at a mid sized non-profit in the UK and our policy says three days bereavement leave. However, managers are able to use their discretion. When one of my direct reports recently lost his mom, I authorised five days bereavement leave (with grand boss’s approval) with another few days PTO, so he ended up with two weeks off altogether. His mom lived the other end of the country and there was quite a lot to sort out.

  57. First time commenting*

    I’ve been in my first job post-college (nonprofit development/fundraising) for almost two years. I like it ok, but I’d really rather be doing something more fun, creative, and quirky. I keep coming up with ideas for interesting careers (Making art! Working with horses! Beekeeping! Working at a bakery! Join the freaking circus or something!) only to find after some research that without exception, none of my ideas are ones that will make you even a living wage (I also live in a pretty expensive metropolitan city). I want to be realistic, so I try and make sure that I have lots of fun extracurriculars outside if work so that I have some creative outlets, but it’s still frustrating to spend so much of my week doing work I don’t really like. Have any of you felt this way before? How did you deal with it?

    1. annn*

      Oh hi are you me? What I’m trying to do is focus my job hunt on nonprofit’s who’s mission aligns with my hobbies/interests. So for you that might be an org that run’s kids art programs, a horse sanctuary*, environmental program that protects bees, etc. Would still be doing the same day to day type tasks, but I feel like if I’m working for a cause I care about and enjoy, it will sort of satisfy that urge.

      *I realize there probably aren’t an abundance of horse sanctuaries in you metropolitan area, but you get my drift.

      1. First time commenting*

        That’s a great idea! I definitely get frustrated with nonprofit culture overall though- not much pay (especially for us Youths™ who are lower on the hierarchical ladder), and a tendency especially in development to be overly focused on optics. Also the MD suburbs outside of DC are surprisingly horse-y, so I may look further into finding work doing horse stuff.

    2. asteramella*

      “Quirky” is kind of a bad metric for finding jobs that meet the balance of fulfilling and life-supporting. I and many of my friends (mostly artists) have had a lot of quirky jobs that were interesting experiences but not necessarily fun and usually didn’t pay well (among my circle of friends: comic artist, cheesemonger, ceramicist, sexual health educator, fine art painter, jeweler, muralist, animal shelter adoption matchmaker, full-time furry artist, yoga instructor, etc). It seems you’re drawn to the idea of creative jobs, but most creatives I know have a passion for their specific art but supplement their art income with a day job or a part-time job or a side hustle or two. YMMV; I live in the US in a red state, and it’s hard to make a living in a low-paying creative field in a state that doesn’t have Medicaid expansion, reliable public transportation, or good social services for low-income residents.

      If you have a passion for a specific low-paying art or industry, it can always be a side hustle or a volunteer experience. Some of my favorite jobs have been less quirky/fun but have allowed me to use my skills effectively and paid me a decent wage so that I can spend a good chunk of my free time doing less lucrative work that I enjoy.

      1. First time commenting*

        You’re totally right. Side-gigs & day jobs are absolutely the reality when you want to have a creative or otherwise nontraditional career. The lack of value American culture places on the arts is just so demoralizing and exhausting. And thinking about how we’re all expected to spend the majority of our time doing work we don’t enjoy just to survive because we live in a late capitalist hellscape that values productivity above all else makes me so frustrated I could cry.

        I know that probably all sounds kind of obnoxious and inflammatory and has everyone ready to scream “WELCOME TO ADULTHOOD!!!!!!” but everything going on in the country right now makes me think that there’s got to be a better way!

    3. Trillion*

      I often lament that fact that I didn’t go with a more interesting creative career. (“Why didn’t I go be a florist’s apprentice before I had to many bills to pay?!”)

      So I end up spending a lot of my Big Fat Corporate paycheck on creative outlets instead.

      This is going to be a very Unfun and Unhelpful statement: what you’re experiencing is called Adulthood. We’ve all sold our souls to the man so we can sit in our cubes and fantasize about our missed calling as a cat groomer.

    4. HannahS*

      One of my friends was in a non-profit that aligned with her values and was doing some music on the side. After…I want to say 2.5 years, she transitioned to working 4 days a week, and is spending more time working on her music career. I don’t think she’ll ever have a big career in music (and I don’t think she wants one), and cutting her wages means she’s now living on an much tighter budget than she would be otherwise, but she did it to see if it would make her happier. You can always ask your job if they’d be willing to entertain something like that.

    5. CheeryO*

      Yeah, I can relate. I think part of it is just growing up and out of that black-and-white mentality (either you have a job you love or you sell your soul to work for The Man!). I work in the environmental field and had the opportunity to move from consulting to a more interesting, less stressful position in state government, and you better believe I jumped on it. I love my coworkers and strongly believe in our agency’s mission, but at the end of the day, it’s still a job – they pay me to deal with annoying and sometimes difficult stuff, and I wouldn’t do it for free. Someday I might be in a position to be able to work for less doing something more fun, but for now I have a good balance (and the 37.5 hour workweek doesn’t hurt).

    6. nonymous*

      Try to find a volunteer or part time job that will cover the expenses of these creative endeavors. My FIL is really into thrifting vintage clothes, so he runs an ebay store. It covers expenses of sourcing the clothes (lots of overnight road trips that are magically near his bucket list places to visit) plus clears him mad money for more frivolous purchases. A lower effort example would be the bee hives and youth art program at my church (just an example, there are secular opportunities to do the same work) – the church picks up the tab for supplies and volunteers provide labor. I have some friends that do aerial trapeze at corporate gigs evenings and weekends – the earnings pay for their practice space, costumes, occasional master classes, and their annual trip to burning man every year.

    7. kmb*

      I dealt with it by finding a weird, creative day job, and I did that by finding organizations those jobs would exist at, volunteering with them, and then applying for jobs there. Or, get super into your creative hobby (like circus school, or whatever) and see if you can find work at relevant organizations – a lot of the artists I know have or have had day jobs at arts organizations, whether they’re teaching art there if it’s that kind of org, or doing administration in artist run centres or whatever.

      My background is in art (I have a BFA in visual art and am working on my MFA), and after graduating I worked as a web developer for 1.5 years (which I liked, but I had trouble with the company. While I was there, I volunteered for our local science centre with the exhibit development team, and was like HOW IS THIS A JOB???), and then moved into the marketing position at a theatre company where I stayed for 2 years, and then I saw some job postings on the science centre website for something that seemed plausible, applied, and ended up having one of the people I volunteered with as my manager. I work on public programming for adults mostly, so it is very creative and weird (I had to find a coffin I could borrow once).

      The other independent artist career path I see a lot is have a casual / freelance job to pay the bills (landscape, house painting, yoga instructing, telecom installation, flight attendant … ) that is really flexible, so you can take time to go be in a show or install an exhibition somewhere out of town or whatever.

  58. Cats and Dogs*

    I am burned out. It was inevitable after being tasked with running a department that lost 3 senior people (both temporarily and not). I’m beginning not to care about things. I’m beginning to feel taken advantage of. (Though, despite feeling taken advantage of, I’m not really angry or bitter. I just feel jaded.) One of our senior staff should be returning next week, which you would think would give me cause for celebration. But, honestly, I feel like I pulled the curtain back on the department and my goodwill and motivation was the price of admission. I don’t know if I’ll recover. But, I do know that I will be planning some kind of time off next month and really hope that I can build up some of my energy reserves.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      This happened to me. One too many crises that required me to roll up my sleeves and dive in because nobody else was around to do it – the last one seems to have just broken my enthusiasm. Now I’m resentful and suspicious at work, and have an increasing apathy. I’m desperately trying to job search because I think a fresh start (ideally with some real time off between) is the only solution. I also worry my boss is going to notice that I’m a crappy worker now and start having little talks with me, which I desperately want to avoid. IMO, time off wasn’t enough. I would need like three-four weeks, which nobody in my company does. One or two weeks had no impact, I was super stressed trying to wrap things up so I could leave, and when I came back there was even more crap piled up.

      Sorry this might not be helpful :P

      1. Cats and Dogs*

        I feel your pain. I am worried that this is the end for me here, which is sad, because honestly I’ve been with my company for awhile and although I admit that I definitely fell into a rut of comfort, I still felt a very strong desire to do my job well. And now I really just want to be left alone. I did look at jobs today. I even looked at jobs at my company to see if there were any opportunities to transition into a new line of work. Alas, not really.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          I’m having a difficult time even devoting myself to the job search because I’m so blah. I’m also afraid I’ll get a great opportunity but, like most jobs, they want me to start ASAP (my last job ended on a Wednesday with me starting the new on on Thursday of that same week). Especially if it’s likely to be even more demanding, since I’m looking for things that offer more pay and are a step up. I’m not sure what I’ll do if they insist it has to be that way. I think all the time about just quitting to be *sure* I can get that mental time off but everybody says don’t do it, it could be a career-ender, you could be out of work for a year etc. So no advice, but support!!

    2. It’s just me*

      Did I write this? Ha!

      I’m facing the event horizon of burn out exactly because of having to lead a group with a recent exodus of senior people and an off-site direct manager and a toxic skip-level but equally off-site director.

      I’m exhausted and emotionally tapped out. I need a vacation like nobody’s business, but I’m not confident that will be enough to really recharge knowing that nothing will change on my return. It’s not even that I have too much to do (which I do but could manage that), it’s the simultaneously competing demands for my time/attention. My calendar is constantly double and triple booked, meanwhile I’m trying to develop junior staff who have lost their project managers. There’s no relief to expect realistically, so this is the “new” normal. I’m trying to figure how how to either pivot my expectations or manage my time better. Probably both but neither is easy to do successfully.

    3. Need to Leave*

      I just came back from a 11 day vacation in a lovely spot where for once I was totally not thinking of work in any way. Within 1/2 an hour of starting work back up I was feeling chest tightness. I’m there with you.

  59. Christina*

    And another question–I’ve heard the saying “if you’re the smartest person in the room, find another room” (i.e. put yourself in situations/roles where you have people you can really learn from).

    A) have you found this to be true and necessary? and B) if you’re looking at a role where you would be “the smartest person in the room,” where else do you find people to learn from/mentors and how do you grow in that role?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think there’s some truth in it, but I’d phrase it differently, because I don’t believe there is such a thing as “the smartest person in the room” (if you have competent and hard-working people in your organization, each is “smartest” in her own way and valuable to the organization), and it also would mean that the smartest person would leave, and then the second smartest would leave, and then the third smartest, etc.

      It makes no sense, logically.

      That said, the bit of truth I see in it would be that if you don’t feel challenged at work, you should find an environment in which you are challenged (intellectually and/or in other ways).

    2. Anony*

      You can be the subject expert in something but someone else should be bringing other skills to the table that you can learn from. I may know the most about subject X, but my coworker expertise in subject Y still helps me to learn and improve.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      You could try to find a group for people in your line of work such as Teapot Makers of America.

      It might be helpful if you can define how you want to grow, that may lead you to publications or other people.

      While you are sorting this (it’s a tough question) perhaps you can figure out ways to learn things from the people you do have around you. Interestingly, sometimes non-teapot makers will teach you more than a mentoring teapot maker. Your learning experience maybe broader in that you learn how things are interconnected and how other people look for solutions in their arena.

  60. The Other Dawn*

    No question, just an observation.

    My husband works for a very large company on the security team. We had an issue at the rental house we have and he took yesterday off so he could fix it (he’s very handy, thankfully!). He spent the previous night trying to figure out what his reason for calling out would be. When I asked him why he had to have a reason, I found out that when he calls out sick, he *has to* give a reason and it goes in a report. So I asked him why and he said, “That’s the way it’s always been.” Then I asked what happens to that report. He had no idea. I had Opinions on that, but obviously I don’t work there so it was just me venting to him that his company sucks. I’m so glad I don’t work for a company like that!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      So he can’t just say “I’m sick” he has to specify what type of sick?

      That’s weird. I mean, I could see it potentially being an issue if you worked around food or vulnerable populations to avoid possibly spreading something, but in a regular office?

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Yes, he can just say he’s sick, but they will ask specifically what is the “sickness,” so he had to say he was throwing up. He hardly ever calls out and when he does, he truly is sick. He’s not someone who calls out every other week; he’s got hundreds of hours accrued that he’s never taken. It’s just annoying that he has to justify taking a sick day. I know it’s always debated on here about sick days being for actual sickness, caretaking, etc., but I’m of the mind that if someone isn’t abusing clearly their sick days, who cares why they’re calling out? His job is the type where he can call out and it’s not going to put a major wrench in things.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          but I’m of the mind that if someone isn’t abusing clearly their sick days, who cares why they’re calling out?

          His employer doesn’t agree.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      So he called out sick to work on the house? Or did I misunderstand what you said? Because if that’s a habit, maybe it explains why they ask for a reason?

      1. Anony*

        I agree. It is possible that he feels the need to give extra details because he is lying and that it isn’t actually required.

      2. The Other Dawn*

        Nope, most definitely not a habit. He calls out maybe a couple times a year and it’s because he’s truly sick. His boss says personal time is fine, if it’s submitted a few days ahead of time. I think because he had to call out about three weeks ago because of throwing out his back, he feels guilty. But yeah his company does this with everyone regardless of whether they are habitually calling out or not.

      3. Thlayli*

        Yeah it’s likely they have this policy specifically to discourage people taking “sick” days for things that are nothing to do with being sick!

    3. Anono-me*

      It also is used as a way of minimizing worker’s compensation fraud.
      Kris calls in sick and give the reason as left knee wrenched playing soccer.
      Two days later Kris says “Hey boss, I tripped and hurt my left knee. I need to file worker’s compensation.
      Boss says, “Is that the same left knee you wrenched playing soccer three days ago?

      I’m not sure how much this really happens in the real world, but I have had two business owners tell me that they ask for this reason.

  61. Another academic librarian*

    How long can you delay starting a job if you are relocating? I’m interviewing on Monday for a job halfway across the country (United States), and I want to be prepared in case they ask me when I could start. Ideally, I’d like to wait until late May, so that my son can finish his school year. In my field (academic librarianship) it’s not unusual for people to move from out-of-state for their jobs, so I think they’d be okay with waiting a bit, but I don’t want to come off as presumptuous.

    Also, is it advisable to mention during the interview that my husband will be starting a job in New Location this summer? I’m tempted to mention it so they know I’m serious about relocating, but at the same time, I don’t want them to think that’s the only reason I’m interested in the job. (It’s not – it’s a really good match for my skills, plus a chance to expand my experience into some new areas, and if we weren’t already relocating, I would consider doing so for this job.) As I said, people often relocate in my field, so I don’t think I have to try very hard to convince them that I’m really okay with moving.

    1. Odyssea*

      As a fellow academic librarian, I don’t think they would have a major problem with waiting to start until the summer – honestly, no one wants to start training new staff at the end of the semester, as it’s usually crazy enough without the added burden of training. You could probably feel them out about this at the interview, and I don’t think it would be a problematic ask.

      For the second question, if there is enough about the job that interests you anyway (which it sounds like is), I wouldn’t mention that your husband is relocating. If you’ve accepted the interview, I would accept that you would relocate for the position anyway, and it will help you sound more positive about the job.

    2. Turkletina*

      For the relocation, I think you can say exactly what you’ve said here: You’re really enthusiastic about the job, and it’s a particularly great fit at this time because you’re already planning to relocate. (You can say “family reasons” or not elaborate or whatever you’re comfortable with as a reason for the relocation.)

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I think it’s as long as they’re willing to wait. It’s a negotiation. We often talk about negotiating in terms of starting salary, but you can negotiate for pretty much anything they’re willing to negotiate on (benefits, vacation time, stock options… yes, even the start date).

      I was in a similar situation once. I was moving cross-country for my spouse. The job I was most interested in (that was also interested in me) wanted me to start immediately (or in the next few weeks). I was on an academic calendar and insisted I would have to wait another four months. They put me on hold and interviewed other candidates. Then they circled back when they realized they liked me best. Even though it put a huge strain on the rest of the department to carry on without my position (a temp wouldn’t be worth the training required), they waited those four months.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m tempted to mention it so they know I’m serious about relocating, but at the same time, I don’t want them to think that’s the only reason I’m interested in the job.

      Also, don’t worry about this at all. Of course you’re interested in the job both because you’re relocating and because you’re interested in the job itself. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. And they know, no matter how interested you are in the job, that you wouldn’t be considering it if you weren’t relocating.

      1. The Curator*

        For my present job, the offer came in August and I was able to push back the hiring date to November. Now that I have been here for some time, I see that this is not unusual. We just made and offer and the person is starting in June.

      2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        I think it’s only a positive to mention that you’re planning to move to the area regardless of whether you get an offer from them! That may help alleviate concerns over whether you really want to move, whether they’ll have to pay moving expenses, etc.

  62. Odyssea*

    This week in random pet peeves:

    People who leave time on the microwave – why can’t you just hit cancel? Do you think someone else wants to use your leftover 28 seconds? So many questions!

    Also, people who move around what paper is in the copier trays – it might be “easier” for you this way, but we have it set up that way for a reason!

    This has been this week in random pet peeves.

    1. Murphy*

      FOR REAL.

      I swear, reading your comment I got so far as “random pet peeve” and I immediately thought “people who leave time on the microwave!” It happens here all the time and for some reason it drives me nuts.

      1. Montresaur*

        Joining in on this. I get a twitch in the back of my head when I see the microwave incessantly cycling through “PRESS START” and “0:xx” after someone else has used it.

    2. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      This happens to me all the time. But they’ll leave, I don’t know, a minute and 32 seconds on the microwave clock. MOST of the time I check my phone when I sit down to lunch. However, sometimes, I don’t. So I’ll walk in and it says 1:32. So I’ll sit down. Read some stuff. Eat my lunch (the days it happens it’s a sandwich). Turn around to check the clock………….zero time has elapsed. Now I actually check my phone and realize I have no idea how long I’ve been in there. Drives me crazy.

      Also. The whistling. I have several people who whistle. Constantly. Makes me want to shove a fork in my eye.

      1. Free Meerkats*

        Unflattering self-admission:

        We have a microwave where the display goes blank just after 0:01 and before it beeps; if you open the door then it remains in that condition. It appears ready to program, but will accept no input without pressing cancel first. When I knew Former Annoying Cow-irker was going to be using after me I would deliberately leave it that way because he never figured it out. He was 6’5″ and 300 pounds and instead of pressing cancel, he would complain about it being F-ed up again and crawl under the table to unplug it to reset it. I got such pleasure out of that little thing.

        Oh yeah, I whistle quietly but tunelessly when I’m deep in concentration. After apologizing to my wife, she said that she takes it as an indication that I’m content and it’s endearing to her. I’ve told my coworkers to let me know if it bothers them.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I had a coworker who whistled (quietly and quite well, actually) and would also sing to himself. It didn’t bother me, and the singing was hilarious because he’d make up funny lyrics. I’m afraid I encouraged him by laughing.

          1. Free Meerkats*

            Like I said, unflattering.

            It had nothing to do with his size, I could spend the rest of the afternoon enumerating the grievances, but won’t. He was an uncivil, unethical, dishonest bully who at one point sued me and lost (to quote another uncivil, unethical, dishonest bully) bigly.

    4. Julianne*

      +1000. The “clear/cancel” button on the microwave at my workplace actually doesn’t work, so if the previous person leaves any time on it, you have to microwave your food for those 28 seconds, open the door to reset it, and then microwave for your desired time.

    5. anon24*

      I used to work somewhere where people always left like 3 seconds on the microwave. Drove me nuts, and I didn’t even use it that often! I was the weird person who would walk in the break room, hit the clear button, and walk back out to continue on with my day.

            1. Decima Dewey*

              I hate the leaving time on the microwave thing too.

              When I’m in the kitchen/workroom and see leftover time, I press the CLEAR button and go do whatever I came in for (getting an interoffice envelope, faxing the timesheet, getting a pen that actually writes, and so forth).

          2. Natalie*

            Bah, it beeps all the time – when you add time, clear time, change settings, and when anyone else uses it. 5% fewer beeps seems like a weird hill to die on.

            (Does someone make a microwave that has zero beeping? I feel like people would buy that.)

            1. Not a Real Giraffe*

              Our office microwave actually doesn’t have a beep! I am not sure if it came that way or we somehow programmed that function to turn off, but it’s actually quite nice.

                1. No Green No Haze*

                  Our newish clothes washer plays a dainty tune when it’s finished.

                  We had no idea. The first time it happened, we jumped a mile.

              2. Someone else*

                A lot of microwaves have a setting to turn the sound off. It’s probably hidden in a menu somewhere.

            2. Parenthetically*

              My parents’ microwave has a *volume control button* which I feel like is the best imaginable microwave feature. Super loud for when you’re across the house and the dryer is running; silent when you’re reheating your tea for the nth time when the baby’s just gotten to sleep.

            3. Windchime*

              Our microwaves at work have the beeps turned off. The kitchen is very close to where people are working and I’m sure the incessant beeping would drive them mad. So yeah, some microwaves have the ability to turn off the beeps.

        2. Chell*

          I knew someone who did this constantly and was told that they, quote: “Don’t like getting screamed at by the food robot.”

    6. Trillion*

      Hello there, that was probably me. I couldn’t care one iota less about time left on the microwave or the volume being on an even number.

      However the paper moves need a big fat time out. Don’t mess with my copier.

      1. Marthooh*

        The thing with the copier paper is clearly your punishment FOR LEAVING TIME ON THE MICROWAVE!

        You fiend.

    7. Mouse Princess*

      I used to hate that but our microwave has an “add 30 seconds” button so when it’s left at :28, I put my food in and just hit “add 30 seconds” until it’s the level I want. Cause I’m too lazy to clear it and type in the time I need.

      1. Parenthetically*

        I do this. I can’t imagine caring how much time is left because I just add more with the +30 or +60 buttons that most microwaves have. *giant shrug*

    8. stitchinthyme*

      How about people who spill food in the microwave (or elsewhere) and then don’t wipe it up? How hard is it to grab a paper towel and clean up your damn mess?

    9. MM*

      Pet peeves that are also things I find myself constantly ‘fixing’ around the house: time left on the microwave, cabinets/drawers left open, pens left uncapped or clicked ‘on’ (I know the last one is very obscure…)

    10. Not So NewReader*

      I leave time on the microwave. And I do it at home too. The reason I do it at work is that the buttons are so hard to read especially with bifocals. Silver writing on brown background in a cursive type font. So I find the light switch and the light is not that great. I have to bend over almost 90 degrees to read the buttons which starts to annoy my neck pain issues. Finally I read all. the. damn. buttons. Not a single one says “clear” or “stop”. Matter of fact I have not located a cook time button yet. Every time I go in there I cannot remember how I got the mic to work the last time. And I do want to eat my lunch sometime today.

      At home this mic has a light gray sans-serif font on white. What happen the concept of contrast makes things more legible?? Additionally the button panel is curved. The curve runs from top of the mic to the bottom. This means the start and stop buttons are under the curve and even less legible. If I am reheating a tea at night, the leftover time sits there until the next time I use the nuke.

      My friend had great difficulty turning on her CPU. It was a black button on a black background. She has macular. I put a piece of white label maker tape on it for her.

      All I can say is “Manufacturers, we are an aging population. Think. Just think.”

      My suggestion is if you have a label maker make labels for start, stop and clear. Put them over the existing buttons. I bet people will start using the buttons correctly.

  63. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    I made enough money that I can pay rent on time without asking my parents for help or not eating! (posted in last weekend thread that I was worried about this).

    Also, annoying coworker will not be taking the remote position because “she needs the interaction with others.” Okay, but maybe not everyone wants to interact with you?

  64. IT Job Seeker Anon*

    This is more of a question for UK based readers: I was born in South America but have a Portuguese citizenship, inherited from my mother, and I’m currently looking for jobs in Europe – preferably in the UK, since I’ve been there four times and I speak English fluently. Has the Brexit decision made it harder to find jobs in the UK for people who aren’t citizens? And what kind of tips would you give me, as a person looking for IT jobs in the country?

    1. Reba*

      Dunno about Brexit impacts, but immigration laws for the UK do not make things easy either way. My sibling, who is even *married* to a British person, was unable to get permission to stay there.

      If you have work sponsorship it may be a very different situation, of course!

      Sorry this isn’t helpful, just wanted to temper the expectations a bit. Good luck with your search!

    2. Iris Carpenter*

      Up until Brexit actually happens (although anyone with any sense hopes it will be postponed or cancelled), as a Portuguese citizen you should have full EU rights to move here and work without needing a visa or permit (note: I am not n immigration lawyer). According to the press, many employers are reporting that it is harder to recruit people with the correct skills, so your chances might not be as bleak as you think.

      Practical points: Popular cities (London, Bristol, Edinburgh have very high housing and/or commute times, so research thee carefully before accepting any offer. Small cities & towns are finding it hard to recruit experienced people with the correct skills, so I suggest trying these.

      1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        This. I wrote a long response that I think went to moderation, but Dublin would be a good option with a lot of very large US tech multinationals having a presence.

    4. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      I’m an American here under EU rules (EU spouse-type person) and he is in IT-adjacent (data warehousing) and he still has recruiters calling him weekly for jobs. But some other observations from this side:

      1) Pay scale in this country can be really poor for the majority of jobs. If you have an in-demand skill set you may want to check out the Netherlands or Germany first for better quality of life/cheaper and better housing/less stressful political atmosphere

      2) Recruitment processes tend to run rather slow and can take months, but that is dependent on what you do. In demand skills you may be ok – send out some feeler applications to recruitment agencies or positions and see what sort of response you get

      3) There have been isolated incidents/reports of some employers not honoring the fact that the UK is still part of the EU and therefore EU citizens can still be employed without needing visas etc., but most companies aren’t like that. Also be wary of some job postings trying to get around the EU issue by stating they need British passport holders only – you dont want to work for those companies anyway

      4) The major issues is – who knows if Brexit is going to happen? Seriously, the politics here on this issue make Trump look sane. Most of the time its possible to ignore and go on with your life but there is always a bit of “what if?” in the back of your mind. The Home Office that deals with immigration issues is a mess and I don’t trust anything they say about streamlined computer systems and easy application routes for EU folks when the time comes. However, if you want to do this, then I would suggest doing it now before the March 2019 cutoff date because anyone coming during transition period will be in a massive grey zone open to interpretation. Anything after transition will require whatever new convoluted scheme the HO can think up for a work visa. I guess the good rule of thumb (which the rest of the EU countries/parliament seem to be following) is assume that March 2019 is happening and plan accordingly.

      It all sounds really grim, but I think if you want to come here for a few years to get some experience at a job or do something new, with an IT background you will have some advantages in that it will likely be easier to be hired. Dont be afraid to include the UK in your search, but be aware that there are some aspects that could make the experience less than what it could be somewhere else. Most jobs are in London, but there ought to be plenty of other options in Manchester, Birmingham, or Edinburgh.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I’ve been watching this because family and I’m hoping against hope it doesn’t happen because it’s completely bonkers.

        The Home Office, ugh. A U.S. friend of mine who married a Brit had no trouble getting a spousal visa (pre-Brexit) but she’s also a social media influencer, which probably swayed a few people. Even so, she said it was nerve-wracking.

  65. Imaginary Number*

    How do you break up with a mentor/coach?

    I completed a leadership development program at my company. One thing they did during it was pair us with “coaches” (different from mentors) which are senior employees in the company they think are a good personality match. For me, the picked a woman from the UK (I’m in the US.) I think it would have worked out really well had we been able to meet in person, but our monthly catch-ups always feel awkward and forced over the phone, even though she’s super nice. There’s just not a lot to talk about. I can’t talk about my job very much in specifics, for legal reasons having to do with her being in another country. We’ve pretty much covered every topic surrounding being a female in a male-dominated workplace. All in all, the distance aside, it just doesn’t seem to be the right fit.

    She’s been really great about setting up these monthly meetings, but I always feel like I’m wasting her time because I don’t have enough things to ask her and it never feels like a conversation (which it does with a local, job-specific mentor I have.) Is there a tactful way for me to break it off?

    1. fposte*

      Do you need to replace her with somebody else or can you just break up? Could you just ask to go to an “as needed” basis and never call her?

      1. Imaginary Number*

        There is no replacement requirement. You’re absolutely right though. Ideally I think I would like it to be more call when I have a particular topic in mind (or she does) vs. a standing meeting. Because she has given me some very helpful advice on different situations in the past.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Make sure you tell her that!

          Something like “I’ve really appreciated your guidance and advice on being a woman in the Teapot Manufacturing field. I feel like I’m wasting your time with our regularly scheduled calls now because I can’t talk to you about Teapot Regulation, so can we keep in touch via email and schedule calls when something specific comes up?”

  66. Junior Dev*

    I am in a weird situation at work that is tripping up some of my anxieties pretty badly, but it also means I am not sure what the correct thing to be doing is if I want to get my job done. I’ve been here a little over a month.

    In a basic sense my job is to make instructional materials on how to use our software product (less documentation, more tutorial/overview). But the existing materials are not particularly organized or documented, and there are good reasons for this, but it means I can’t find stuff for reference or figure out what needs to be updated.

    I’m already working on figuring out some ways to catalog what we have and make sure future material gets organized too. My question is more about the social dynamic.

    My co-worker “Wakeena” seems to really want someone she can stand in front of a whiteboard with and bounce ideas off of. However, whenever I’ve done this with her, it tends to go like this when it’s my turn to present ideas:

    Me: what if we did a “chocolate teapots” course with a study guide?
    Her: no, that won’t work because VP Fergus hates study guides, and a chocolate teapot killed his family.
    Me: (begins sketching out ideas for course organization using rice sculpture as an example)
    Her: no, we are supposed to make oatmeal figurine courses from now on [this information is not written down anywhere and I have no way of knowing it]

    When she tries to talk to me about her ideas I just don’t have enough context to have an opinion on them.

    So basically, she wants us to have a style of collaboration that won’t really work until I have more context, but I have no idea what I’d do to learn that context. A lot of it seems to involve company politics. And a lot of times she will shoot ideas down rather than try to strategize about how we could get stuff done despite complicated interdepartmental relations.

    Meanwhile, there is a ton of work I would love to be doing cataloging the existing material, but she doesn’t think we have time for it.

    How do I talk to her about this diplomatically? My supervisor has been on medical leave the whole time I am here and my acting supervisor is the division VP. So Wakeena is really my only source of guidance.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I’m sorry – this sounds stressful! Could you ask her to spend some time walking you through all this organisational knowledge she seems to have been hoarding?

      1. Junior Dev*

        Heh, thanks.

        I’m realizing the dynamic I described is part of a larger problem: Wakeena has been working alone long enough that she has strong ideas about what she does and doesn’t want, but she isn’t used to having to articulate them to other people. So she can say “I don’t like that” and point to some very specific, context-dependent reason why, but she can’t ask for what she wants or describe general patterns of what won’t work.

        She scheduled a meeting for next week and it was like pulling teeth to get her to tell me specific things she wanted to discuss. She finally did though, so that’s a win.

  67. Grandma Mazur*

    Anyone have any tips for getting re-enthused about returning to work after a long period of maternity leave?

    I’m just over 6 months into my 12-month maternity leave and will be returning to a different role from the one I held before (if you choose to take more than 6 months, the organization guarantees you *a* role at the same grade and pay but not *the exact same* role). The switch makes sense, for me and the org, as there was a lot of travel in my previous role, and I’ll be coming back to one that is the most office-based of all the department leads. I am also able to come back at 3 days per week. But it’s not the job I interviewed for or really ever wanted, so I’m struggling to get motivated for my return.

    I don’t blame my workplace for the change, and people are going out of their way to make sure I’m happy with the role in being offered (I actually had a choice between this one and another role, but the other was even less attractive). Am I just being ungrateful?

    It doesn’t help that I won’t have much latitude to really effect the strategic changes I believe would be helpful (think small cog in a big governmental wheel), which wasn’t an issue with my previous role. There’s also an annoying commute and no opportunity to work from home on a regular basis (although permitted on occasion).

    I don’t want to contribute to that “women are less invested in their careers once they’ve had a baby” narrative (there is a grain of truth for me in that narrative but, overall, it’s not that I’m less invested in my *career*, it’s this particular position I’m not that inspired by). I’ve started looking for other roles nearer where I live, but it’s going to be hard to beat the combination of career advancement, relatively good salary, family-friendly workplace and excellent work-life balance that this organization offers.

    Is there anything I can or should do to make myself look forward to going back more? I have some keeping in touch days I can use to get back in the swing of things. But really, the motivation right now is the working conditions and not the job content…

    1. Thlayli*

      Sorry that sounds annoying. Maybe if you make a list of all the benefits (less travel, 3 days a week etc) that might help?

    2. MissGirl*

      I think you’re pre-worrying. I’m like this. I worry about ever possible thing long before the thing needs to be worried about.

      So much can change in six months. The role could change, your desire to do it could ebb and flow from day to day. Something may happen in your life to cement your feelings one way or the other. Also, you haven’t even started the job. You might like it more than you think or know it’s not for you right away. At that point you can consider how to parlay it into something else. This job won’t be the end all of your career.

      Stop stressing and focus on the now.

  68. Cancer Crush Anon*

    This week’s update:

    Nothing with the CEO. Thankfully.

    Had an interview on Monday..seemed pretty promising although the CEO of that company apparently describes the culture as “a frat house”. Sent up a red flag, but they have a beer vending machine, foosball, basketball court, in office, so if I get a second interview it’ll be with him and I’ll ask him what his definition of a frat house is. I definitely do NOT want to get myself into another awful environment. VP I interviewed with said that people in this company need to be comfortable with an f-bomb flying around and some comments that probably shouldn’t be made. I said to her very clearly “I can take a joke, but there’s a difference between joking and then joking about someone’s body or making an inappropriate remark.” She agreed with me, so hopefully I made myself pretty clear on my line. I still want to clarify, so if anyone has any tips on what to say, that would be great.

    Dad’s surgery went well. So I’m a little less stressed about that. Will be even less stressed once he comes home.

    Thanks for following this crazy story!

    1. DC*

      I’m glad your Dad’s surgery went well! I hope the second interview goes well, I’ll be keeping an eye out for your update!

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’m glad to hear your dad’s surgery went well!

      I’d probably give that job a hard pass based solely on the beer vending machine in office.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Eh, it does not sound like my kind of culture. Additionally, it sounds like people are mouthy and probably insulting and that is considered “cool”.
          Eyes wide open here.

          Very glad to hear about your dad.

    3. Totally Minnie*

      I’m so pleased to hear your dad is doing well!

      I would absolutely double check some things with the CEO. You really want to know what happens if a joke goes too far and falls into “this is definitely not okay”territory.

  69. DC*

    GUYS. I have a new job! Using all of the things I have learned on AAM, I have accepted a new job at a place with a great culture, great benefits, a 20%+ increase, and respectfully gave notice and have been handling my transition here.

    I really don’t think I could have done it without this site, so thank you Alison, and thank you commentariat for letting me vent here every now and then.

  70. Wakanda4Ever*

    First time commenting, I’m interviewing again with a company that initially rejected me. They invited me back to interview for a different position, one I have more experience with, and I’m so nervous for the interview because I’d hate to be rejected twice. It’s a different set of interviewers and I’m not sure the best way to do a better job on this interview. Any tips?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      This happened to me. Keep in mind that they likely brought you back in because the first group you interviewed with had positive things to say about you. (In my case, I interviewed first with a subsidiary, and later with the parent company. Before bringing me in, Parent Company Hiring Manager asked Subsidiary Hiring Manager about me, my qualifications, why they rejected me, etc. SHM said they liked me but went with an internal candidate instead.)

      Prepare as much as you can, think about areas in your last interview that needed improvement and polish your answers for those questions. You’ll do great — good luck!

    2. Bea*

      The odds are in your favor here! They had a good impression and passed you along to a department that your skills fit into. Many places don’t bother or don’t have anyone who stood out like that.

      Stay positive and go in well prepared. Knowing their company a bit more having already interviewed may give you a chance to ask some solid questions and make another solid impression that lands you this job. Good luck!!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Concentrate on talking about your experience with the work.
      Remember THEY asked you back because they think you offer something they need to seriously consider. It’s a compliment, keep that in mind.

      I understand about being rejected twice. Hold on to the idea that the second rejection would not have happened if they had not asked you back. So the second rejection does not “count”.

      Remember to interview them right back. Check them out. Do you like them? Does the environment seem like a good fit for you? Concentrate on the stuff that matters. In the end you might find the company is just not for you, and you could end up refusing their offer. So there is that, too.

  71. Worker's Comp Question*

    Has anyone had experience with appealing a denial to a worker’s comp claim?

    My husband is an HVAC tech at a large company. He works on industrial heating and cooling systems and is constantly on ladders and working with large pieces of machinery. Several months ago, he was unloading equipment from the back of a truck. There was some oil or grease that spilled from one of the pieces that made the floor slick. He slipped and fell out of the truck. Luckily he didn’t break any bones and had some mild scrapes on his hands. As per procedure, he filed an incident report back at work.

    A couple of days later, he noticed that his left knee was having some pain and weakness, especially when he was using a ladder. That prompted him to open a worker’s comp claim. The first step was to go to a general practitioner who prescribed some anti-inflammatory meds for a couple of weeks. He also had to stop using ladders at work.

    The meds didn’t fix the issue and he continued to have problems with weakness in the knee. The next step was to get a x-rays and and MRI. After that he saw an orthopedic specialist to review the results. There was some tearing of the cartilage in the knee and the specialist recommended surgery to fix the tear.

    After that he was told to see another doctor – just a general practitioner who was different than the first doctor. From what I heard from my husband, this doctor did a cursory examination. He also said that my husband needs to “drop some lard”. My husband is a bit overweight, but the orthopedic specialist didn’t say anything about his weight causing issues with the initial tear in the cartilage.

    A couple of weeks ago, he was notified that the claim was closed. It’s been very frustrating especially after all the doctor’s appointments and meeting with the specialist who recommended surgery. We were both hoping the surgery would be covered under the claim.

    A family friend works at a law firm that specializes in worker’s comp claims and he is going to give them a call. Is there anything else that can be done?

    1. Bekx*

      Call the lawyer. My mom went through the same thing. Her employer is denying claims left and right. My mom’s workers comp lawyer is taking care of it now….

      From what I understand, you don’t pay the lawyer, workers comp does.

      1. Bad Candidate*

        Additionally, if you have your own medical plan you could get the surgery done through that and let them subrogate against the WC carrier.

    2. Bea*

      Thank God he filed an incident report. Lawyer up, they’re dicking him around.

      It doesn’t matter if he’s 900lbs, he only experienced this after the fall AND also it’s a work related illness possibly from doing physical labor for years. They are trying to bully him into taking responsibility away from WC. Which is laughable since its in place to protect and keep people able to work. Ick.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yep, any issue with his weight is all smoke and mirrors, that has absolutely no bearing on this incident at all.

        A very large person fell at work and landed in a manner that they broke both ankles. Comp paid all the way. Weight has nothing to do with the fall.

  72. Parenthetically*

    My boss expelled two of my students without even telling me about it. I’m… incredibly upset about it. I had planned to come back to work next year part time again, but now I’m not so sure.

    I’m just venting. Sad and frustrated and confused. Thanks for reading.

      1. Parenthetically*

        It really was. It’s a private school, so “expelled” is a strong word — he basically asked two students not to return because it wasn’t working out — but still. So frustrated.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Okay. Is this on the heels of your boss being a jackass about other things? I am thinking it might be the case.

      Either way, try, try, to collect up facts. What happened, why were the students expelled. You don’t have to answer here, but I would like to encourage you to collect up more facts about what is going on. I am not clear on how expelling works, do they notify teachers before they do it? Do they notify teachers only after they do it?

      Perhaps there is a quiet way you can help these students and their families.

      I hope your concerns here lighten in some way for you very soon.

      1. Parenthetically*

        In a public school, there are definite procedures to the process. That’s not the case here, unfortunately. Two boys who were at each other’s throats all year were basically asked not to come back, from what I gather, for the sake of the peace of the school. My boss has been under an incredible amount of stress lately from this and other things, and though I can’t say I’m surprised these boys are gone, I’m sad for them and their families.

  73. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

    This may have been discussed before but: Earlier this week I noted in the comments section someone mentioning tattling. I hate the use of the words tattling, ratting or snitching in a workplace context. To me the word tattle belongs in daycare or kindergarten. Ratting or snitching on someone also has negative connotations. Reporting someone or a situation at work to higher authorities is not wrong. The use of those words imply that there is something wrong with calling out situations that need to be addressed.

    1. buttercup*

      I’m not against the word itself, but I do have issues with people using the term to bully others away from reporting serious issues so they don’t get in trouble. In high school, it was considered petty to tell on someone for something trivial like chewing gum. But some people would accuse another student of tattling if they wanted to report issues that were actually harming them like bullying or harassment.

    2. NaoNao*

      I agree, but I think most people are using it to mean “reporting low level annoyances for the purpose of venting, making yourself look better, or trying to get Fergus/ina in trouble”, not “reporting serious issues or wrongdoing”.

    3. LCL*

      I know Alison has mentioned it’s not the right word for the workplace. I still use it, though. To me tattling is telling management about something with the express purpose of making the other person look bad. EG-when I was very new, I and two other workers were doing a one-off job outside of our training and specialty. One of the workers felt I was doing something unsafe (I was, we all were, the whole job as it was set up was unsafe and stupid) and after the job was finished went and told the manager that they thought I was working unsafely. That’s tattling. Even though the subject was serious, the report to management wasn’t an attempt to help us do the job in a safer manner, it was to make me look bad. Coworker had a history of doing exactly this, it had to with their view of what fair workplace competition was, and it include tattling and outright lying about other workers.

    4. ML*

      I don’t think they belong anywhere, because they are too often used by bullies of all ages to keep people silent. There are better ways to encourage children to try to solve problems themselves first than belittling them by calling them tattle-tales.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I know we are not supposed to pick apart word choice but I do agree with you on the word tattling.
      I think it jars me the most when people say, “Is it tattling when person y says x about person z?” And it’s the mindset behind the use of the word that gets me. No, it’s not tattling because this is the adult world, but it is whinny, unprofessional, unadult-like and in some instances bullying, manipulative and so on.

      Little kids tattle. That is benign because adults work through that.
      Perhaps we need a word for when people carry tales needlessly. “Throwing someone under the bus” seems to work sometimes.

      But I have suggested we find another word to use to replace “hostile” so that 17 people don’t come on to tell us how that has a legal definition. Many, many words have a legal definition that is very limited and do not mean what they mean in ordinary conversation.

      I think these replacement words are a work in progress.

    6. Moonbeam Malone*

      I know I used the word once in a Friday open thread. I’d intended it not as an indication I thought that reporting this incident was bad but to get across how it felt to report it, but I actually wished I’d worded it differently after I said it because it was unclear. I think you’re right that it reinforces some unhealthy thinking.

  74. On PIP (but not really?)*

    I posted about this situation a couple of weeks ago, but it was too late to receive replies so I will try again.

    I was recently put on coaching at work due to a significant decline in my performance since around November. My manager assured me that she thinks I’m a generally good performer and this isn’t a sign that they will terminate me, but rather an effort to address recurring issues. This is one of my first jobs, so I could use some insight into how I could best solve this problem.

    I started this job this past May. The first four months, I received high praise for work. (I basically write client deliverables.) My manager quickly learned that I have an aptitude for analysis but around October, we changed our deliverable platform from Microsoft Word to PowerPoint only. I had never done a report in PowerPoint format before, and it quickly showed in the first two reports I did. My project supervisors submitted negative feedback to my managers citing poor performance for the following reasons.

    – 1st PPT: The analysis and conclusions were good but the report was poorly formatted (I admit this is true, but again, I had never done a report before, and I wasn’t trained on it during onboarding.)

    – the last 3 PPT reports: Conclusions are good, but the body of my report lacked narrative or context in terms of writing (too little text), though the content was satisfactory

    I have intermittently submitted good reports as well, but it’s been 4 times now that I have had to revise my work. I always try to incorporate feedback (an effort that has been recognized by my manager) but the same problem always crops up.

    I’m at a loss at how to solve this problem. In addition to improving my performance, I’m also trying to determine if I’m a good fit for this job or not. Is there any way I could avoid this same issue at a new job in a similar field?

    1. DC*

      Does this coaching involve training or a course in these types of reports in powerpoint? It can be hard to apply changes to something totally new, as it’s a lot of new things to remember all at once in the transition. Perhaps asking for that kind of training may help, as you can then have a baseline to apply feedback to.

      2. On PIP (but not really?)*

        Thank you everyone for your replies. I realize I should have added some more context (ha!) Yes, I have been utilizing the strategy of recycling templates of example PowerPoints. However, in the end of the day, I still have to narrate my own research, which I apparently do well.

        Also, I want to clarify, these are not PowerPoint presentations, but stand-alone reports in PowerPoint format. So in other words, no one would be there to explain anything on it.

    2. Middle Manager*

      Ugh on using PowerPoint for this. Have they given you examples of what a satisfactory report in PPT looks like? If not, I would ask if they could provide you with one or two that you could use as models. I think it’s likely that you’ll be able to make the transition once you know what they want. After all, you were able to do quality work in Word, so it’s not like you don’t understand the content. You just need to get a handle on how to format it.

      You could also try taking one of the reports that you did in Word that was well-received and try re-doing it in PPT. You may need to do this on your own time, but then you could ask your manager if you’ve managed to convey the same information properly.

      If you do decide to look elsewhere, I would ask how what type of training new hires receive.

      2. On PIP (but not really?)*

        Sometimes, but he doesn’t have the capacity to do it every time. There is an expectation here that researchers should be able to complete deliverables with minimal supervision and editing in 6 days. I think part of the problem is also that I feel rushed.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Everyone has their own idea of what a good PPT presentation looks like. I took a course in school and it was stressed that there should not be many words on screen. Your bosses have a different idea.

      I do agree that looking at two or more GOOD presentations should help you a lot. I don’t think looking at one presentation is going to be enough for you to see the patterns that are preferred.

  75. CW*

    So my early-20s employee fell asleep while he was supposed to listen to me present a webinar to clients. He was also supposed to be monitoring the webinar interface for questions and technical issues. It was only about an hour long at 1pm in the afternoon.

    I was so surprised that this would happen that I couldn’t think of what to say to him afterwards. Any ideas?

    2. copier queen*

      I hope when you talk with him, he apologizes and assures you it will never happen again.
      This happened to me once. I was in a training session to learn how to use some new technology. The presenter was great, not boring at all, but I fell asleep during the presentation. I was absolutely mortified, especially because I was sitting on the front row. A few days later I realized I was pregnant, which was happy news, but I still felt awful that my body shut down in this super-embarrassing way.

    3. Leah*

      you mentioned he’s in his early 20s… is he still in college? if the answer is yes, then this could be a sign that he’s not getting enough rest between school and work. and if he had lunch right before the meeting, it’s the perfect combo to fall asleep in the worse of times. Alison’s suggestion is great; ask him if he’s ok, because if he really is stressed out of his mind to the point of passing out during an important work meeting he’ll really appreciate you being worried for him instead of snapping at him.

    4. Close Bracket*

      > It was only about an hour long at 1pm in the afternoon.

      > I was so surprised that this would happen.

      That sounds like prime falling asleep time. When you talk to him, be sure to acknowledge that and focus on solutions. Can he take a walk to perk himself up? Have a caffinated beverage of his choice? Stand up and stretch if he feels sleepy?

  76. Tabby Baltimore*

    If anyone on this board is an analyst of one kind or another, and you are familiar with using topic modeling (I think this is a data science term to describe how computer code identifies and “clusters” groups of words that it determines are related to each other) as one of the tools in your research kit, please tell me how it helps you with your work. I have just been introduced to this fantastic tool, but it’s taking me some time to get a grip on the mechanics. Thanks!

    1. nonymous*

      the wikipedia article on this has a good animation for a single variable, just extend that to multiple dimensions, with variables that may not be word choice – for example timestamp, origin location, etc (my experience is academic, so limited in a real-world sense). It basically leveraging the concept of correlation, with a high degree of detail. That said, it’s possible to overstate correlation measures by the choice of variables, and the standard disclaimer of correlation vs causation applies.

      You’ll want to read up on LDA and PLSA to get started, and there are variants out there which your particular software may use. The big question that all of these ask is whether the prevalence of whatever variable case you’re observing is more/less/equal to whatever exists generally. Then the follow up question is whether the training set is truly representative of the population. For example, I might be interested in mining texts to discover treatment options for cancer involving BRAC genes, but there’s going to be a difference in key topic if the training data was PubMed vs cancer survivor blogs.

  77. Em from CT*

    Two questions for the crowd! I don’t know whether I should address these things: any advice?

    1. I am hiring for a new role. I took the resumes via email. There’s one person—who is, judging by his resume, is very new to the workforce—who has followed up four times in three weeks. I am not interested in him, but have not responded, because I am going to respond to all the candidates I’m not interested in at once. However, after four emails (and four emails in which he spelled my name wrong!) I’m tempted to respond with a little gentle advice. Am I just irritated because it’s irritating, and I should leave it be? Or is this a situation in which some advice (basically, “don’t do this”) would be acceptable?

    2. I have a colleague who is Indian. He came by my cubicle to chat one day, and after he’d left the woman who sits next to me (a middle-aged white woman, and I’m a younger white woman) made a comment asking what his name was. His name is pretty simple: two syllables, pronounced exactly as it’s written. So I told her, and she responded, “I don’t know how you remember that! It’s so complicated!” And I didn’t say anything at the time, but it really rankles, and I can’t help but keep thinking about it. His name is not complicated. It’s just that she’s not used to it. But if she can pronounce Andrea, why can’t she pronounce Anirud? I…get that I probably can’t say anything to her now. But it’s frustrating, and I’m mad at myself for not saying anything in the moment. Unfamiliarity doesn’t seem like a good excuse for not just making an effort to learn someone’s name.

    (Come to that, my name is actually a little weird, with a pronunciation that’s not standard for English—but she’s never commented about that…)

    1. buttercup*

      Your second anecdote is the story of my life. I have a non-Anglo name that is only 2 syllables and suuuper easy to pronounce, and I have had some people make a big deal out of the fact it was unfamiliar to them. Some have even asked me things like “I will never remember your name, so could I just call you Sally?” Um, no.

    2. BeepBoopBeep*

      1. I would say advice would be welcome- not many employers give it. Definitely be nicer than you think you should be though, as this person is getting a rejection AND advice for how to improve. I also wouldn’t just list off things they shouldn’t do, but say “try this instead”, and if you can, maybe one or two other job searching tips unrelated to the stuff they did wrong.

      2. That would absolutely rub me the wrong way. I would bet though, that if she really feels that way about his name, that it will come up again soon. You might prepare a little statement now, and say something gentle like: “I understand that maybe his name is very different than what you’re used to, but remembering people’s names is a really simple thing you can do that makes a huge difference. People like hearing their names, and especially hearing them pronounced correctly. Not making an effort to remember someone’s name just signals to that person that they don’t matter, and I wouldn’t want anyone on our team to feel that way. If you ever need a reminder on pronunciation, i’d be more than happy to do the for you!”

    4. KitKat*

      Re: question 2, something I do sometimes is play really dumb when someone says something like that and ask them what they mean. 90% of the time within 1-2 repetitions of “what do you mean?” or “why?” the person fumbles, attempts to explain, realizes mid-explanation that they shouldn’t have said that, and then backtracks.

      If I like them, I’ll usually save them from the ensuing awkwardness by pretending they said the right thing all along like “yeah, it’s a pretty easy name to pronounce!” and if I don’t like them I just let them flounder in the mess they made :)

      The key is to sound genuinely curious about what they could possibly mean.

    5. Tabby Baltimore*

      “No, it’s not complicated, his name just has an unfamiliar ring to you. I’m sure you’ll remember in no time.”

      1. HannahS*

        Yeah, this. I’ll often even go with, “Nothing hard about it! It’s just [slow pronunciation of name].” It works. If they’re ignorant but generally want to do the right thing, what happens is that they’re relieved and then say the name back to me. Then I say it again, faster, they repeat, and ta-DAH now they can pronounce Yeongjae (YONG…jay. YUNG-jay? No, YONNNNG-jay. Oh, Yong-jay! Yep, there ya go Betty. Easy peasy.)

    6. Close Bracket*

      > who has followed up four times in three weeks.

      So that does sound annoying. I’m sure you remember being on the other side where not hearing back was pretty annoying. Since you are going to reply with an unpersonalized email anyway, why not just send rejection emails as soon as you are certain you are not interested? It’s not that much more work for you, and it’s courteous to the applicants.

  78. What to say*

    I have a situation I’m not sure I handled right.

    I used to work at ToxicJob. It was a difficult place due to the office manager. He was the type of person who would pull you aside, say horrible things to you and then praise you via email to cover himself. He blatantly harassed employees that he didn’t like and encouraged the rest of the management team to join in. But he was good at the budgeting and planning management tasks, so the powers that be above him did nothing for over a decade. He is also active with several prominent non profits in the community and the business community.

    I left ToxicJob several years ago after getting sick of being insulted and held back professionally by him and his lackey supervisor and fed up with ethical and legal issues at this place. There are a few people who know both him and I professionally. A few months ago, I heard that office manager at ToxicJob was finally fired for his behavior. There was a puff piece in the local paper about how he was laid off due to budget cuts, but I have it from reliable sources that it is totally untrue. The other day, someone who knows him professionally asked me if I knew what happened because they had heard that he had been fired.

    I have been pretty quiet about office manager since leaving because he is a fairly prominent member of the community here and I wanted to move on and forward. Some of his behavior when others left was unprofessional.

    I did not slam office manager and said I wasn’t sure what had happened. Was that the right move? Should I have spilled the beans?

    1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      As gratifying as it might have been to spill the beans, I think it’s probably a better move to keep quiet. I think word will get out eventually what he was like and why he was fired, and I would prefer to stay as far away from the drama as possible. He sounds like a vindictive person who knows how to manipulate others so I wouldn’t want to be a target. I think you could still be honest about how it was to work with him – saying things like “well it was challenging sometimes” or whatever – but you don’t have to go into details.

      1. What to say*

        Thank you… I do want to avoid drama and not be a potential target for him. I was (thankfully) able to leave ToxicJob without any issues with him and move on. Not everyone was so lucky.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Handle it as you wish. That is what I would do. In your story here I might not have any problem saying what happened, but I can’t tell you that for sure.

      You can go with, “I am not surprised to hear this. But I don’t know the particulars of what went on.”

      As the years go on your answer to this might change. As it becomes more and more common knowledge that this guy is a jerk, people might look at you funny if you pretended like nothing was wrong or that you were not aware of any issues. But I am not big on covering for other people.

      1. What to say*

        Yes, I definitely don’t want to cover for him or enable him to land a position in management elsewhere and repeat his behavior… but I also feel like if rumors are starting to spread already, that may not be a big issue. And I worry that spreading rumors (even if they’re true) reflects poorly on me. I’m hopeful that he will simply remain active in the non profit community where what he is good at can be of use, and not manage people again. If for some reason I was asked for a professional reference though… I would be more forthright I think.

      2. Observer*

        Unless What To Say is being asked for a reference, there is no issue of “covering” for this person. Just sharing gossip doesn’t really help anyone. Of course, saying things like “I’m shocked” or “I have no idea what happened” is a bit further, and closer to covering. But “I’m not sure what happened there” is pretty close to the truth. One thing IS completely true – they don’t know what finally got upper management to pull the trigger.

    4. Observer*

      Why would you spill the beans? What would you hope to accomplish?

      That’s a serious question. Whenever you think about whether you “should” do something, or have an obligation to do something, the first question you need to answer is “What would doing x accomplish?” Once you know that, you can see whether there is anything to think about or not.

      Unless I’m missing something I can’t think of anything you could have accomplished that would do you or anyone else any good.

  79. Chanel*

    I work with another co-worker, “Sofia”, who is older than me and slightly senior. Sofia and I are the only ones in our department.

    When Sofia gave me the information about the project, she told me all of this and goes, “I keep hearing about how you must be such an expert because you have a Master’s degree.”

    Now Sofia is upset and is criticizing the work that I’m doing on my project. (The font is too small; haven’t I turned it in already, etc.) She either snaps at me or leaves the room when I enter and goes to talk to other people. If I have a question about something, she claims to not know or tells me to ask someone. (Even though I help her.)

    She bosses me around, but then asks for my help and in return never helps me. She also is always online instead of doing her work.

    What should I do? Should I say something to Sofia?

    1. NaoNao*

      Well, at this point it’s pretty clear she feels upset and threatened and is trying to assert her dominance (at least that’s how I read it).
      For now, I would just take your lumps with a smile and dial back the interactions to frosty professional (like, don’t go out of your way to help her, don’t ask her for help, etc).
      If she’s doing concrete things to impede your work (not answering emails, not giving you information you need) you could start CC’ing her boss or once you have enough issues to merit a conversation, maybe ask for a meeting to discuss “work productivity solutions” or something.
      Alternatively, you could approach her nicely and say “I feel like we might have gotten off on the wrong foot about that MA degree thing. I’m not sure how that got around, but I certainly don’t think my degree is the be all end all and I’m actually upset that people are saying that. Can we start fresh?” or something.

  80. Lauren*

    Ok, I’m scared at retaliation for sending around a webinar called – Unconscious Gender Bias in the Workplace. It’s about recognizing and overcoming bias at work.

    I sent it around to women across our 3 offices as well as male department heads. Most people signed up and encouraged me to send to the entire team. So I did, but then my dept head sent it to the entire company leadership team. Now I’m freaking out that I overstepped by bringing this up. My dept head is a woman – somehow I think it would have have been better if sent by our other dept head (a man) instead. Basically, because a woman is considered a complainer, troublemaker, or instigator – but a man would be called a leader for bringing this up. She named me in the email and now I am worried about the backlash it will have on me in this company, where I was largely invisible before. I’m cringing as no one is responding when responses from leadership are usually quick to say ‘great idea or congratulations’ whenever people forward stuff in general. I need some encouragement please …

    1. DC*

      This kind of thing can be terrifying, I know! But don’t worry too much- if that many people signed up, and someone else shared it even more widely, then you’re doing something right!

    2. Ms Mad Scientist*

      That sounds like a fantastic webinar. A lot of people don’t believe they’re biased based on race or gender because they’re not explicitly biased. At least it sounds like the staff are enthusiastic about the topic. I hope it turns out well for you!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Overstepped? really? Your department head sent it out not you. You just gave it to the department head. I think you will be okay here. Your department head added her name to yours so this means that she is going to be your buffer zone, she is willing to deal with the flack if there is any. Remember her name is on it also.

      And isn’t it interesting that the very rationale for why you would be in trouble is also the very same reason that video exists.
      Stand tall. You do not have to say anything further. Just walk forward with confidence, even if you are faking the confidence most of the time. You did very well.

      1. Short & Dumpy*

        I’ve been having the same thought all day about saying essentially “a woman sent out a post about implicit bias but I think a man would have been better”.

        I started and then deleted a response to this half a dozen times today. I think it’s absolutely tragic that someone is fearing retaliation for something that a ton of people thought was informative while feeling it would have been fine coming from a man.

        I keep going back and forth between “don’t be silly…this is FINE and no one will think twice about it” and “omg, she knows her office better than I do…if the misogyny is this bad, I hope she finds a job in a sane office”

        1. Lauren*

          Sadly it is about how I know my office would handle this. And the retaliation would be from the male leadership in my office, because I made them look bad by implying we needed this at all. Its common to get the “you should have come to me first” speech from them just because they wanted to keep it quiet. This from men who make excuse after excuse to avoid talking to women about their careers and blow them off and cancel meetings, but have impromptu discussions and lunches out with millennial men talking to them about their futures.

          So yes, it sounds awful that it would be better received by a man bringing up the webinar than a woman. But male allies get results, so most of the time I’ve tried to use my male allies to further my agenda at work. If they bring it up, it gets attention with ‘great idea’ and a follow-up discussion immediately put on the calendar. If a woman does, its awkward silence followed by ‘i hear what you’re saying, but let’s table that for now’ – any followup is ignored or cancelled.

  81. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

    My (LIS) dissertation is due in October, and then I have nothing to do before graduation, which is in January. On my resume I have “expected January 2019” listed for this degree. But because I have nothing to do, I’d love to find a job that would start sooner, maybe in November or December. Am I likely to get hired before I officially have my degree (I mean, assuming I don’t fail my dissertation, which I don’t think I will), or will employers think that’s weird enough that I probably won’t find anything starting before January or February? I’m open to working in a library or working elsewhere.

    1. Turkletina*

      When I got my MA, I put “MA, teapots, Llama University 2011 (conferred March 2012)” on my resume. Nobody seemed to care, but I wasn’t in a field where the degree would have been a formal job requirement.

    2. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Not weird at all. I got my first professional library job pending my degree using language similar to Turkletina. I think I also mentioned in my cover letter that I was completing my course work by [specific date] and would be available immediately.

    3. Grandma Mazur*

      If you’re looking in the UK, this would be pretty normal and understood, at least by employers who regularly hire Masters students. Not sure about the US or elsewhere.

    4. nonymous*

      You can also include a line that says: “Title of your dissertation”, Accepted Oct 2018 on your CV as a separate line from your anticipated graduation.

      Speaking from the perspective of watching the hiring of a librarian in an org that only had the one librarian position in the building (seriously, our last librarian was incredibly frustrated because of her isolation), no one would blink an eye. But that response might not transfer to an org that hires multiple librarians – I understand the positions can be quite competitive, especially in urban environments.

  82. AnnonLurk*

    Should I bring up industry norms when negotiating a pay raise? The company I work for notoriously underpays in alot of the positions, and I didn’t realize how bad it was until I talked to people in other jobs who are working less demanding but similar positions. I was given a very set salary range to expect, and while I like some of what I do, I’m constantly overworked as the department I’m in runs leaner than any other ones.

  83. JoAnna*

    Man, what a roller coaster this week has been.

    I was laid off from my job of seven months on Tuesday (company was having financial trouble). It’s my second layoff in less than a year so I was pretty crushed.

    However, that same day my husband interviewed for a great new job, and he was offered it the next day. It comes with a significant salary increase as well as great benefits, and if we have to we can make it on his salary alone.

    So while I will be looking for another job for the purpose of paying off some debt, I can take my time about it, and I don’t have to worry about finding a new one quickly in order to make ends meet. Whew!

    1. nep*

      Sorry about the lay-off — but wow what great news about your husband’s job offer! So great to have that pressure lifted a bit for your job search.
      All the best.

  84. Suckling at the public teat*

    No real question here, just venting.

    I work for a small city in the West and it’s a time of flux. My grandboss (Asst. Dir), whom I really like and respect, moved to a different agency last October; his replacement is someone I know well, but don’t think she has the chops to do the job. In November a former city councilperson was elected mayor; when she took office one of her first actions was to fire the Department Director – as in computer disabled, summoned to City Hall, and never came back – and replaced him with one of her, FWOABW, henchmen. He’s a gormless drone who knows nothing about how to keep the infrastructure going and is also “Acting Director” for two other departments he knows nothing about. My direct boss is at a point in his career where if it all gets too annoying, he can just say, “I’m retired, effective today.”

    I’m just keeping my head down and beavering away. Seem the best course for me, now.

  85. CassidyYates*

    I need help for getting through the next 3-6 months as I work through a PiP.

    In the autumn I had some serious performance problems at my job. I was struggling with personal issues but that’s not really an excuse; I was just failing to do my job properly and communicate the issues I was having. It came to a rather ugly head just before the winter holiday. I apologized for my actions, outlined how I was going to work on being better in future, and accepted the corrections I was given. I was told at the time that it was not ‘really’ a PiP, that the next step would be a PiP if I didn’t improve, and that they had faith that I could do better.

    Well, there was a month-long delay before I got the official disciplinary letter, and it had a lot of things in it that were not in the original disciplinary conversation – things like not scheduling a meeting until late so that some people couldn’t attend, when the meeting itself was mandatory and I was not even allowed to add things to the calendar. I attempted to protest them, but obviously since I had had real problems, there’s not much room for that. The letter also states that if I do not make ‘immediate and lasting improvement’ that I will be fired….but it does not give a timeline or a very clear view of how I will be assessed.

    Last week I brought these issues up to my supervisor, and she said that she did not have timeline and would not be the one making the final decisions – her view would be considered but the decision would be made by a person one step up from her. Further, she said she had not been checking my work, so she had no way to know if I had been showing that ‘immediate and lasting improvement.’ She guessed I had, but had not really checked it.

    The final straw came yesterday when I was reprimanded (and by reprimanded, I mean actually reprimanded, with a raised voice and a direct threat) for doing something that I had done a year ago with no problems, while under another supervisor. I was told that I should have checked before taking action and that I was definitively wrong; and of course, that this error was something that demonstrated I was still failing at my job. Now that the policy has been clarified I obviously will not do it again, but I checked with others in my position and they were surprised that I had been criticized because they had done the same things…with no problems.

    Obviously I am under a microscope and even though I do own up that I had performance problems I am desperately working to correct, I do not feel this is a tenable situation. It’s less that I am wondering ‘if’ I will be fired then ‘when.’ I’ve polished up my resume and have begun looking for other jobs, of course – but I can’t afford to resign from this one until I have something else.

    I guess my basic question is, are there any strategies I can use to just try to get through this until the end comes? I’m going to do the best I can and try to meet the expectations, but those expectations keep changing, and there is no one really noting if I am on the right track or not. How do I get through this? Is this just how things are?

    1. Colette*

      1. Proactively ask for feedback (every week, if possible). It sounds like they won’t give you feedback directly, so see if you can get it if you ask for it.
      2. Get your finances in order. Understand how long you can survive without a job. Cut optional spending.
      3. Network. Not just because it may help you find a job, but because it will do you good to have positive conversations about your work.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Just wanted to add that I suspect your instincts are good, I’m sorry, but it seems to me that they have likely made up their mind and are just playing out the process in order to lay you off. Your boss washing her hands of the situation is a clear signal, also that she hasn’t even been checking to see if your work has improved or not. If the worst comes, you will still have options – you may be able to get severance if you “go quietly” or negotiate for the type of reference they provide, such as just confirming the dates of employment.

        1. WellRed*

          Yes, I have seen this happen too often with others. There is no salvaging this and it might help to think of it that way as you look to move on.

        2. CassidyYates*

          *nods* this is definitely how I am feeling. I guess I just need to work on feeling better about it, or at least making peace.

      2. CassidyYates*

        Yeah – I’m meeting with my supervisor once a week, but it’s not been very productive because she is not checking my work, so all I have is the chance to check with her to ask questions, not to find out if I am meeting my benchmarks.

        I’m definitely working on the finances. Unfortunately some categories I wish were optional just came up right now – dental work for me and my partner. :/ but I guess if we get it done now then if I get laid off it will be all be done without having to manage COBRA.

        Networking has never been my strong suit but needs must!

    2. On PIP (but not really?)*

      Omg I am in the exact same situation (which I posted about above). I’m actually wondering if we work in the same company.

    3. Anecdata*

      Do you know who the decision-maker is (if not your supervisor)?
      Can you schedule a meeting with them – and ask for direct feedback about how it’s going, whether they are seeing the improvement they want to see, etc?

      (It can be scary to ask directly if you are on-track to keep your job – but it’s better to hear no now and have a bit of time to prepare and/or negotiate a smooth exit than to be blindsided later on)

      1. CassidyYates*

        It’s one of two people, and I could ask to meet with them. It might take a long time to schedule, but I guess I can just keep trying to do what I am doing to improve in the meantime. Asking for the direct feedback probably isn’t any worse then the feeling of dread I am having!

  86. Cute Li'l UFO*

    Application beef time!

    I’ve run into this before but this is the first time I’ve tried to take some kind of action. I’ve noticed that some applications (this one is using the Greenhouse thing) will require that you fill out college, area of study, and date. No big, right?

    Except when your college is absent from the list and area of study categories are kind of a wide umbrella. There was no way to create a new entry category for “other” or “N/A” unless I missed. I tried the two ways that my college is often written out, nada. No field for “none” or otherwise. It seems like such an oversight. I went to a for-profit school that most often gets “Oh yeah! Project Runway!” but even that wasn’t the issue as the Art Institutes were listed.

    What do you do in situations like this? I’ve been moving on in the meantime, I sent an email to their general “careers” email but I’m not hopeful. I’ve just been flummoxed by fields like this. If I am indeed not missing some option this is such a poor design issue. Maybe someone with more insight has an idea?

    On the bright side, I reformatted my resume and I’m feeling much better. On a brighter note Facebook reminded me of the time I was applying somewhere that had no back button so you could edit an answer. Accidentally marked myself as a felon and had no way to fix it. Design!

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Ooh, this happens to me a lot. My college is listed, but my degree name is a very unusual name–think “Study and Analysis of Dark Chocolate Teapots” instead of the normal “Chocolate Teapot Studies.” In situations like that I just select Chocolate Teapot Studies, although my situation is less dire. I’d suggest contacting the hiring manager or HR or technical support (not sure which one first, though, so this is less than helpful, I guess), explaining the situation, and doing what they tell you to do.

      1. Cute Li'l UFO*

        Definitely raised the issue to their careers email. It just seems like such a MASSIVE oversight. Still, that’s gotta be annoying. I imagine that the degree is meant to be a very wide umbrella which I suppose they could filter out as they contact applicants, but it seems really unnecessarily rigid. Super annoying but at least it’s not the norm on applications.

    2. CM*

      Sorry you’re an accidental felon. I would just put something that’s close enough. Eventually you’ll probably give them your actual resume and if they realize your answers are different, hopefully they will realize that their online interface sucks or give you a chance to explain. It’s never been an issue for me to put close-enough answers into online applications.

      1. CM*

        Also, when I’ve raised the issue (“your job listing says mandatory JD but your application doesn’t list JD as one of the degree options”) I have never gotten a response.

        1. Cute Li'l UFO*

          I think I might at this point. Ugh, it just feels so wrong even though it’s a limitation on their end.

          But I could also go out and commit an actual felony to make the other wrong right!

  87. ExcelJedi*

    So, my spouse just came home this week and told me that their company PTO policy has been changed. Now FT staff get 5 floating holidays instead of the 9 scheduled holidays they used to get, and they went from 15 days PTO to 5 days in their first year, with +1 each year until they get up to 20. That means Spouse gets 7 days this year, and the days we took off for MLK and President’s Day (which were previously scheduled holidays) count toward those 5 floating holidays – which we would have definitely planned differently had we known. Obviously, the job searching is starting ASAP.

    Is this normal? Do places really cut into employee PTO like this – even 2 months into the year they’re cutting them for? I’d like to ask “Can they even DO that?” but of course I know they can, so I’m really just venting here.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        This seems like something the whole group should go on together to at least get the past vacation use grandfathered in under the old policy. IMO that is extremely reasonable. Alison had a great post this week about how exactly to approach management in a group and why it’s valuable.

    2. Natalie*

      Nooooo, definitely not normal. In my experience it’s normal to grandfather in existing employees when you make a significant change to PTO policy, at least for a few years. Making retroactive changes is 100% garbage under any circumstances.

      Beyond that, 5 holidays and 5 days off (I’m assuming that includes sick?) is *incredibly* stingy IMO. May they lose all their good people over this.

    3. CM*

      I don’t know if they actually can retroactively declare that MLK and President’s Day are PTO days, and not paid holidays. That seems like they are taking back compensation that you’ve already earned.

      For the rest, no, it’s not normal, and best of luck with your spouse’s job search!

      1. Lil Fidget*

        I suppose since, in the US there’s no legal requirement to provide any paid holidays at all, there’s not a law being violated here. It’s crappy though.

        1. JD SAHE*

          I dont know them, but there are definitely some type of laws around retroactively changing how a day was paid without the person knowing BEFORE the day was paid. They vary from state to state.

          1. Lil Fidget*

            Yes, but unless I’m misunderstanding the situation, both holiday leave and vacation time are compensated, so the days he already took were paid. They’re not required to give you any days off at all – they can announce tomorrow that you get zero days off from now on, and that’s legal. It’s not like they’re making you pay something back in cash, or docking your paycheck now, which is where the laws would kick in. They’re just reducing the amount of future paid leave you have. It’s totally crappy and they deserve to lose all their employees, but as far as I’m aware, it’s not illegal.

            1. Banana*

              I am not a lawyer, but just because they can change the days off doens’t mean they can retroactively charge days to PTO that were understood at the time to be holidays. That is pretty much the same as taking back compensation that they already gave you, IMO.

    5. cathammock*

      I’d be skeptical about whether this is actually legal, but it may depend on which state you work in.

      In California at least (which admittedly has labor laws that are especially restrictive to employers), the courts have interpreted a communicated holiday policy as constituting a contract which must be fulfilled as originally stated, or fulfilled with equivalent alternative benefits provided (e.g., substituting another paid day off for a holiday that staff are now required to work).

      So, if there’s an a decrease in the total amount of paid holiday time provided from what was originally promised, which is sounds like there is, there may be a violation here. (This would be different if it were happening at the beginning of the year, before the paid holidays granted were announced to staff.) It may pay to look into labor law and court rulings in this area to see if you have grounds to challenge the policy change.

    6. Bea*

      The only companies who do this are in financial trouble. They’re cutting benefits in the form of paid time off to reduce payroll costs. Next people will be let go in my experience.

    7. Elizabeth West*

      Oh hell no. That’s not okay. Yes they can do it, but it’s not okay.

      My guess is they’re trying to cut costs somewhere and thought that would be a good place. Um, no. It will cost them more in the long run to replace all the employees who leave over this.

  88. Harriet*

    I’m in a lucky position but not sure what to do: trying to decide between current job which is interesting, challenging, what I’ve always wanted to do…but very stressful, exhausting, I very often have imposter syndrome, my manager makes me cry, and there’s no support.

    I’ve been offered a new job with a very significant pay rise which in many ways is a bit of a step back in terms of the level of the work (though apparently there’s room for development). It should hopefully be less stressful though.

    When I applied for it I thought much more money and an easier job was a no-brainer and would let me work on some chronic health issues, calm down my life and stress levels, and get myself out of a financial hole. I’ve always tied up a lot of self esteem into the type of job I do though and I’m finding it surprisingly hard to let go of that now it’s time to do so.

    Does anyone have any thoughts?

    1. CatCat*

      I think this feeling is normal. Change can be hard even if it appears objectively better. May also be a bit of the feeling of “better the devil you know” since how the new job will actually go is unknown.

      It can be hard to let go, but having been in positions before with these toxic pieces (manager making one cry!), in my experience, once you let go, you feel light as a feather. Relief for the stress going away and excitement for the next opportunity.

      1. Harriet*

        Thank you – I love the imagery of feeling as light as a feather. this is what I’ve been hoping will happen!!

    2. Lady Dedlock*

      Take the new job. You sound like the kind of person who will bring a lot of integrity to whatever you do, and you can take pride in your work at your new place as well! And no job is worth your mental health.

      1. Harriet*

        Thank you! I’ve realised through writing this that as well as worrying about being bored I’m also worried about a perceived loss of status – my job at the moment is relatively glam for my profession, and I’m well known in my field as a leading person who is very good at it. But I would rather have better health and not deal with all the toxicity.

    3. Short & Dumpy*

      How big of a drop in challenge would the new job be? If it’s a big one, I’d keep looking for something else.

      I had an incredibly high-stress job with absolutely horrible management. (As in, they hired 2 people to replace just me and they STILL can’t get it all done; manager was making such bad decisions DOJ wouldn’t even defend them when groups file against them in court) 2 years ago I was offered a job that was clearly going to be lower-key (fed, so pay is a constant). It was a huge, huge mistake. I am bored out of my mind to the point that my work habits are absolutely awful, my job skills are aging because this one could be done by someone right out of college in their sleep whereas I’m used to doing things that required serious expertise, and I’m trapped.

      In retrospect, while I definitely needed to get out of the position I was in, I should have kept looking…I was getting lots of interviews but took the first offer because I was so stressed.

      Don’t be me!!!!

      1. Harriet*

        Thank you, this has given me food for thought. At the moment I’m a teapot specialist with specific strategic responsibilities that mean I spend a lot of time looking at new and interesting and different types of teapots. The new job is still a teapot specialist, but without the strategic stuff. They want me to develop the role into something more strategic, but it would still be much lower level than I’m currently doing, and being bored does worry me. I need a lot of specialist expertise for my current role. The new role does require expertise, but at the sort of level I had when I took up my current job (I’ve grown a lot in this role). Opportunities in the rural area I live in are few and far between though.

        I’m sorry for your current situation – and I hope something to stop you being trapped happens.

        1. Jessi*

          You mention a financial hole and chronic health conditions so my advise is to take the money and less stress and work on getting healthy. If you find that you are bored you can always plan to move back towards a more challenging role – but you will be going back with your financial ducks in a row and your body ready to take on a new challenge. Also you can take your time and look for a decent manager

          If short and dumpy is bored he/she can always look for a new role

    4. Thlayli*

      Take the new job and rejoice in your good fortune. Why on earth would you want to stay somewhere that your manager makes you cry, pays less and is more stressful?

  89. Job Searching in Jacksonville*

    Does anyone have advice for trying to break into working in social media? I would love to work in social media, but most of the job opportunities I see around me want at least a year or two of professional work experience within social media specifically, not the few years of marketing experience that I have.

  90. sesame plexer*

    got the weirdest email from my grandboss that’s been bothering me. It was in response to a suggestion I made in an email thread offering a reporting solution. rather than address my suggestion, she sent a error filled email (late at night) about the documented process and how we should meet next week to bring me up to speed but wanted to review with me before rolling out to all parties (again, w/o addressing my suggestion).

    One of my coworkers who was copied on the email just mentioned my suggestion over IM as if it was a done deal, so I’m very confused. I thought GB email was scolding me, but I made my BF read it and he didn’t think so. I am hyper sensitive about stuff like that – I had that one awful job that I’m still suffering PTSD from, obviously. Any thought/suggestions are much appreciated.

    1. CM*

      Take a breath! It sounds like you may be reading things into this situation that aren’t there.

      From what you said, it sounds like these are the facts: You made a suggestion. Your grandboss sent you an email that said she wanted to review the process with you before rolling it out. You and grandboss are planning to meet next week about this.

      So at this meeting, take the opportunity to clarify. Does grandboss want to implement your solution? What is the process?

      I think you’re probably right about your previous toxic job experience affecting how you’re seeing this. To me, it sounds like either your grandboss doesn’t want to take your suggestion but appreciates that you made it, or more likely, your grandboss wants to pull you into this process because you made a good suggestion.

  91. The Curator*

    Home sick with the flu and business travel coming up next week. Trying to stay in today. Deadlines looming. Trying to pace myself. Reminding myself that nothing is an emergency. Anxiety rising.
    Grateful for health insurance. Internet access. Netflix. A department of people who are doing a great job without me. Modern medicine. Small dog.

    2. nep*

      I love this post — not that you’re ill, of course, but the grateful list.
      Wishing you a quick and sound recovery, especially for upcoming work travel.

  92. Lady Dedlock*

    How long does it take for a promotion to go through where you work?

    I’m currently anxiously awaiting to hear back about a promotion I’m up for. I finalized my new job description and justification letter with my boss last Monday. His boss needs to review it, and then HR needs to review it and determine an appropriate salary (because university bureaucracy). Meanwhile, I’m biting my nails in anticipation, wondering when would be appropriate to ask for a status update, even though I know getting a status update will not actually make the process go faster. Last time I was promoted here, the entire process took about two and a half months!

    1. Babayaga*

      Also work at a uni- this sounds about right to me. Terrible to have to wait so long. Maybe you could straight up ask your boss what the timeline is? Or ask HR?

    2. Ally A*

      My last promotion in higher ed took from two full months to make it through HR. And they wouldn’t back date it to when my manager submitted it (and when my new responsibilities started), so he increased the salary to cover the two months. I’m guessing you’re looking at a while. Sorry!

      1. Lady Dedlock*

        Thanks for weighing in! At least if I know that’s the norm instead of some sort of anomaly, I’ll have a good idea of what to anticipate and be less likely to feel disappointed every day that it doesn’t happen. The unfortunate thing for me is that I’ve already been doing the higher level job duties for about 6 months, because according to my boss, it’s easier for HR to give you a promotion if you’ve already been performing the duties for a while.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      As someone who works in higher ed, this all sounds totally normal. It took three months for them to hire me for my position, and two months to interview for and be rejected from a promotion.

  93. Now What?*

    I got fired literally this morning. This was my first job out of college and I had been there a year. I’m feeling a little lost as to what to do. I know I need to start looking again, but should I start right away? Should I file for unemployment? My company didn’t offer me a severance package, apparently it’s something they’ve never done. I wasn’t on a PIP and we’re not downsizing. A couple people I told said it’s very strange that I was fired without any indication, PIP, etc.? Is this normal or am I a weird case? They said the reason for dismissal was that the quality of work wasn’t where they needed it to be, but they never told me that I needed improvement. I wouldn’t have objected! I feel so blindsided. What do I do now?

    2. Susan K*

      Wow, that really sucks, sorry! It is not normal to be fired for poor performance without any warning whatsoever, and no decent manager would do that, but there are a lot of crappy managers out there. Do you think the concerns about your work quality were legitimate, or do you have any reason to believe that you may have been fired for an illegal reason (race, religion, disability, gender, sexual orientation, etc.)? Were you in a union or employed at will? If you were in a union, definitely contact your union steward.

      Yes, you should file for unemployment, and you should probably start looking for a new job as soon as possible, just because the longer you’re out of work, the harder it is to get another job. But it’s definitely ok to take a little time (say, a week) just to recover from the shock before you start applying.

      1. Now What?*

        Looking back now, I think the concerns were legitimate but it still goes back to why didn’t anyone say anything? The kind of feedback I got was more like ‘This isn’t really what we wanted, but we’ve fixed it now.’ So there was not a lot of space for me to learn from my mistakes.
        I’ve already started applying for some jobs but haven’t applied for unemployment yet.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Hmm. It sounds like you were receiving some critical feedback, but you didn’t understand that it was enough of a problem that you could lose your job over it.

          Your manager didn’t handle this well — she should have made it explicit if your performance was poor enough that she was going to fire you. But it’s really, really common for managers to believe that they are giving appropriately critical feedback, and for employees to not realize that they are being warned that their work isn’t up to par. (I can speak with experience on both sides of this dynamic!)

          So while your manager should have made sure that you were understanding the message she was trying to send, there’s still a useful lesson for you here: when you get the kind of vague negative feedback that you got here, you need to investigate further. Ask for more detailed feedback on your work, or for examples of work that meets the standard. If you get the same negative feedback more than once or twice, put the question on the table if your boss does not: “I know the last two reports I gave you weren’t exactly what you’re looking for. I’ve made XYZ adjustments based on the conversations we had, and I want to be sure that my work is on the right track. Are you getting what you need from me on this, or is there something else we need to do?”

        2. nonymous*

          They might have expected you to follow up on what they did to “fix it” and apply that to your future work. Or they might have expected you to run draft work by a colleague before the deadline to get feedback. Personally, I think any position that hires new grads should be prepared for comprehensive on boarding and feedback (at least for the first 6 mos). But I’ve definitely seen places that reserved those tools for individuals that were a good cultural fit. And I’ve seen other places that market themselves towards new grad hires but what they’re set up for are experienced individuals stuck in a desperate personal situation and willing to accept entry level pay.

          Point is, that stinks. And while it’s worth examining how to be more proactive in that type of scenario going forward (come up with own checklists, insist on feedback, seek a mentor), it’s possible they weren’t setting you up for success. My advice is to focus on finding a good next position and it definitely can’t hurt to file for unemployment.

        3. Close Bracket*

          Back where somebody asked for Things You Wished You Knew At Your First Job, I chimed in with, “ask for feedback bc nobody will tell you anything is wrong.” From you told us, I would not have known anything was a problem, either. Feedback needs to be timely, specific, and actionable. What you got was not specific and not actionable. However, there was space for you to learn. What I know now is that you should have asked what you could have done differently and whether someone would go over the fixes with you. After a couple times hearing something like that, you should be proactive about saying, “Since some of my work has not been what you wanted, on this next assignment, I want to make sure that what I do *is* what you want, so can I go over the expectations you?” And check in regularly while you work. Also have regular check ins with your manager to look at larger areas where you can do things differently so that you better understand what to do on specific tasks.

          I’m sorry this happened. It is quite shocking when you have no idea that anything is wrong and then you get broadsided.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Absolutely file for unemployment right away. And also start looking.

      I do agree that it’s strange they fired you for poor quality of work without giving you an opportunity to improve. Do you have contact information for any of your coworkers or your direct supervisor that you think might be willing to give you more detailed feedback?

    4. Bea*

      They sound a mess. A lot of places lack in communication and expectations are sort of in that grey “well why not just figure it out yourself” category for them.

      File for unemployment immediately, they do have a waiting week usually, so get that ball rolling. The employment department also has resources for assisting you in finding new employment, hopefully somewhere that isn’t with such bad management like you just dealt with.

      You are going to be okay. I hope you can take a day or two to reel in your emotions and sort through the muck that’s swimming around your head right now. Thankfully the job market right now should be on your side, it’s okay to be upset right now and confused, it may never make sense because sometimes companies are just so bizarre with how they handle things like this.

      For all you know, Person Firing You has someone they want to slide into your job and the best idea they had was “Fire Now-What and bring in This Other Person, trolololol.” It happens.

    5. Irene Adler*

      I’m sorry you were treated so poorly.
      They should have given you a fighting chance by issuing warnings with opportunity ( plus instruction) to improve long before actually firing you.

      You’ll learn the “real” reason for firing you if they contest your filing for unemployment. If it truly was because the “quality of the work was not there” then they should have to prove this. Which means someone was documenting things but obviously not telling you about it.

    6. Now What?*

      Thank you all for your advice and comfort. It means a lot. I’m still in shock and trying to process this unreal feeling I have. I really appreciate the advice and helping me recognize that it wasn’t the greatest situation. Maybe this was a dodged bullet.

  94. A. Ham*

    Is throwing your hat in the ring for a promotion (job opening due to a retirement) even worth it when it is becoming increasingly clear that another colleague is the heir apparent?

    1. Anonymous Lady*

      Yes! Maybe this time, your colleague already has it in the bag, but next time the job (or a similar promotion) opens up, you want to be at the top of the list, and throwing your hat in the ring this time will at least make management start thinking about you in this type of role. Plus, you never know — maybe the colleague will end up turning it down, and you can’t get it if you don’t apply.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Yes!

      One of my friends applied for a promotion and was pretty much told he had it in the bag. So he coasted through the interviews and didn’t prepare as well as he should have and ended up not getting the promotion because on of the other candidates did prepare.

    3. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      I would say its always worth it to express interest, because then.. well, your company knows you’re interested! It helps plant the seed in their minds that even if they’re planning to promote someone else this time, you’re also potentially promotion material.

    4. Totally Minnie*

      You should definitely go for the promotion. Even if you don’t get it, it sends the signal that you’re interested in moving up, and it gives you some valuable interviewing experience for future jobs.

  95. A Different Screen Name than Usual.*

    Quick question; I was hosting a breakfast meeting for 3 employees and 2 contractors at a local chain restaurant. A random customer stopped by the table with a sheet of coupons he received in the mail and offered us a 20% pff coupon that was about to expire. (He had another coupon for his own use). I accepted it, submitted it when I paid and saved the company roughly 18 dollars. My boss told me it was wrong to do so as the optics made the company look cheap. The other 5 people all saw the stranger give me the coupon and the restaurant was fine with us using it. Did I really do something wrong?

    1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      I don’t think so. That’s something I see people doing all the time. Also it was a chain restaurant, so it doesn’t sound like your company was going out of the way to impress anyone with some fancy upscale place. And to whom does it look cheap? Were you entertaining clients or vendors? It doesn’t sound like it, so I would just chalk that up to your boss’ personal preference.

      For reference, I work at a state university and my bosses would be thrilled if I saved us money because we definitely are cheap. :)

    2. Wrench Turner*

      It might have made you look worse to turn away the stranger, but it is indeed strange to have someone approach and hand out coupons. I doubt the other people at the table thought anything more about it than that. Good on you for saving a little money.

    3. CM*

      Nah, I think your boss is being a little weird here. It’s not like you were with clients that you were trying to impress — and even in this situation, I don’t think it looks cheap to accept an unsolicited discount.

      (Is it really strange for sometime to approach and offer a coupon? I’ve done this before, although I probably wouldn’t approach someone seated with a group at a restaurant.)

      1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

        I see people do this all the time – at restaurants, at stores, wherever. I’m in Texas though so does that make a difference? I wouldn’t hesitate to offer someone a coupon I’m not going to use.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I’m in Pittsburgh and I’ve definitely seen this/done this/been the recipient of it.

          And, yeah, I can’t imagine judging someone negatively for doing exactly what you did.

        2. A Different Screen Name than Usual.*

          I don’t know if he noticed one of my co-workers polo shirts or not. I think he saw a party of 6, all of us were eating hearty and figured we would get more value than a solo diner or couple.

    5. Bea*

      Lol what, your boss is weird and worries about the wrong things.

      I leave my unexpired parking passes for others to use too. It’s not weird to accept a coupon, why pay full price? I would think it was awesome if I were in the group but I’m cheap and in accounting.

  96. Anonymouscoffeelover1974*

    My employer is in violation of several labor laws. The worse are not paying overtime to salary employees that are not exempt, not carrying over sick time accumulated the last year per state law, and using comp time in a non compliant way. I’ve been told there is no anonymous way to report the violations. Managers are aware of the issues. All employees and HR staff that bring it to the attention of the company end up being fired for non-related reasons (or so the management says.) In fact they won’t rehire any HR, after going through three who tried to address the ethical issues. I need my job, am I stuck?

    1. Wrench Turner*

      I was just fired for a wage dispute just last week. Fortunately I saw this coming and was already lining up another job to start immediately. Do the following: 1- Gather documentation of the pay discrepancy; what you are being paid, what you should be paid and the laws supporting you. Make sure you’re 100% right about who is exempt, etc. Do it for you and anyone who wants to support you – you’ll be better off going as a group. 2- Take that documentation to your local labor authorities and file a complaint. If it’s clear your job has or will fire anyone in retaliation, make that known in your complaint with specific examples if you can. 3- Immediately start looking for a new job. Part time, Uber driver, whatever. You may need it.

      Wage theft is a crime. It hurts you, it hurts those around you, directly. Nothing stops your bosses from stealing from all of you until you stand up. The Dept of Labor will have your back especially once a case is opened. If there is retaliation there are severe financial and criminal penalties for it. Good luck. You deserve better.

    2. Observer*

      Start job hunting.

      But, also start documenting. First, document EVERYTHING that has been said to you about the retaliation. Because the DOL WILL investigate wage and hour claims, and they take retaliation even more seriously.

  97. Coqui*

    I need to know how I need to approach my supervisor with an issue dealing with my coworker “John”.

    History: John, 44 years old white male, has worked at the company (local govt, IT) for over a year and a half. The position had been vacant for close to a year and my department was stressed to find a replacement and John met most of the requirements.

    In John’s first 6 months before his probationary period was up:
    * Repeatedly talked about things of a sexual nature.
    * Pulled up the city camera software to watch a young woman urinating in the parking garage then called others to his desk to see it.
    * Pulled up the city camera software to watch his wife and other people swim in the city pool area.
    * Leered from the 2nd floor window and catcalled to a woman bending over into the trunk of her car. The woman could not hear her but I could because he was standing right behind me. I reported this and the above issue to my supervisor who had a “sit down” with John but did not write him up and was told to watch his mouth and not open the cameras anymore.
    * Caught a UPS (power supply) on fire by incorrectly replacing a battery and crossing wires.
    * Failed to complete work on time because he was too busy browsing Facebook and showing photos of ex-students (young but of legal age) to our interns.

    John was hired on after 6 months. In the year that has passed he:

    * Repeatedly fails to complete work on time, often for emergency personnel, because he is either browsing Facebook, Instagram, or watching movies/shows on Netflix. I usually have to pick up John’s slack in addition to my own work in order to get things out to police/ems/etc.
    * Claims that he is in a government job and cannot get fired.
    * Calls interns idiots/morons/imbeciles for not completing something correctly when they were not given any instructions or guidance by him.
    * “Comes in to work early” by arriving at a remote site 30 minutes before his shift starts without telling anyone then shows up to the office an hour or more after his scheduled time. He will then take extra time on his lunch to make up the time. He now claims to have over 3 hours of comp. time to make up for the past few weeks and tries to take it in the middle of the day which screws up my lunch break as someone has to be in our office at all times during business hours.

    I think my final straw was when John showed up yesterday at 7:50am on a remote site and was seen there by a co-worker in a different department. The co-worker came looking for John when he got back to the office but could not find him and said he’d seen him leave around 8:10am from the remote site. John has been acting sick all week and I told co-worker I didn’t think John was even coming in. An hour later John came into the office and said he had to take an extra hour lunch because he had work to do at the remote site. We discovered that John had been sitting in his truck watching Netflix for over an hour after returning to the work parking lot.

    How do I bring this up to my supervisor? I’m miserable at work because of the stress and workload and his problems keep getting covered up or brushed aside. I’m afraid to go to HR because this is my family’s only source of income and I don’t want to be seen as a problem (if it helps, I’m a woman of color.)

    1. CM*

      I think Alison’s standard advice is to focus on impacts to your work, rather than evaluating the behavior of your coworker. So you could try that. But this case sounds extreme. He should have been fired during the probationary period. If your supervisor knew he was making sexual comments, spying on women urinating, etc., and still kept him on, that shows a serious lack of judgment. I hear you on not wanting to go to HR. Is there anyone else you could talk to who might take this seriously? Grandboss?

      1. Coqui*

        Grandboss knows via Supervisor (didn’t want to blindside him) but I don’t know his reaction. The environment here is so, so toxic and the only other person who knows is a close co-worker I trust. John also found out I reported him so I’m afraid to say anything else without risking my job, retaliation, etc.

          1. Mobuy*

            Honestly, I’d be more worried about a union protecting John. Most of the action I’ve seen from unions is protecting the bad workers, not the good ones.

    2. Susan K*

      OMG, this is horrible. I thought I had some terrible coworkers, but John makes them look like saints! Has he continued to do the sexual harassment behaviors that he did during his probationary period? That is probably the thing that would be most likely to get management to take action, and since he has already had a verbal warning, continued complaints of this nature might result in actual disciplinary action.

      Is management aware of the other things you mentioned? Do they know he is claiming to arrive early by sitting in his truck watching Netflix at remote work sites? If not, I think that is definitely something to bring to your manager’s attention, and probably something that will be of concern to them. You can also mention how his failure to complete work and meet deadlines affects you by increasing your workload, but based on how little concern your management has shown so far, this part will probably not be that compelling. This happens at my job, too — I have to do extra work to make up for the slackers, and management knows that the slackers are surfing the web instead of working, but ultimately, they are not compelled to take any action because other people (like me) make sure we meet our deadlines anyway.

    3. Mockingjay*

      Normally I would say that you shouldn’t pick up John’s slack (let him fail!), but it sounds like that could be a public safety issue?

      I think your best recourse is to address the situation with your supervisor in terms of impact on your work. “Boss, I have to finish assignments X and Y. Assignment A which was given to John is also incomplete. All are due today. Which should be prioritized, because there isn’t enough time to do all three by COB?” Or if John doesn’t show up, “Boss, we are short staffed again today. We don’t have anyone to cover the lunch shift. I’m already covering X.” Don’t address John’s behavior, only the work that needs to be done and let the Boss determine the solution. Repeat. (Make it clear that the workday will NOT have enough time for you to do your work and his. If you have to cover his, some of yours gets dropped.)

      If John’s actions are affecting your coworker’s tasks too, I recommend that they do the exact same thing, ask the Boss. Convey an impression that your team isn’t complaining about John; your team is only trying to ensure the work gets done.

    4. Reba*

      What? WHAT????!!!!

      It sounds like higher-ups already know about some of these issues and let them slide? Is that correct? If that’s so, and I trust your sense of what the risks are to you if you complain, maybe the best thing for you is to look aggressively for another job. Maybe you can log a complaint on your way out the door.

      Or is there another office or agency that should have oversight over yours that you could appeal to?

      So sorry you are dealing with this.

    5. Thlayli*

      You ask “how do I bring this up to my supervisor”. Does that mean your supervisor is unaware? If so she’s a pretty rubbish supervisor, and you might be better off trying to transfer to another department or looking for a new job.

      Typically when I give advice I say what I would do, and I want to give you advice because this is an awful situation and this guy sounds like such a jerk. However I know from from reading comments on here that women of colour are treated really badly in American workplaces (I’m white and not American) and I know from reading comments on here that you might not be able to get away with behaving the way I could behave. And believe me I know how priveliged I am to be white and not American. But just in case it is in any way useful, here is how I would behave in your situation. I have no idea if it would help at all, but maybe it will.

      I would arrange a one-on-one meeting with supervisor and tell her the list of issues you’ve just told us. And tell her Im not happy with the situation. I would not tell her what to do or ask for any specific solution, just lay out the situation.

      I think if I had done that with any of my supervisors (all of whom have been white men though a good few of different nationalities to me) what would have happened is that they would have told me I don’t have to cover his long lunch breaks and I don’t have to cover his work, and while he probably wouldn’t have been fired he would have been moved onto projects or departments away from me.

      However I have no idea how much of that is specific to me or to my own supervisors or to our relationship.

      It might be worth noting that I also can’t imagine ever being in the situation you are in, because I would have informed my supervisor and complained every single time I covered his lunch or did his work, and I would have had loud arguments with him every time he did or said something sexist in front of me. Very few guys say sexist things to me twice.

      I hope you realise I’m not saying this to try to guilt you or blame in any way. I know most people would probably behave more like you than like me. I don’t know which bits of my approach would work for everyone and which bits only work for me. It may also be worth noting I have gotten in trouble many times for having loud arguments with more senior men in work, but never fired.

    6. nonegiven*

      If he’s doing the Netflix thing in a city truck, they can plant a camera and catch him. They should have a GPS on all city vehicles and be able to pull the logs.

  98. Longtime Listener, First time Caller*

    I spent most of my childhood in the northeast (NY, NJ, CT), but have spent all of my adult life out west (Washington, Utah, and Idaho). Currently I live in Idaho, get paid well, have family nearby, have great work-life balance (think 15 minute commute, no long hours at work). BUT I’ve really been missing the east coast. Plus, I loved my childhood in the NE, and I want to give my kids that too.

    So what is it like working in the NE? Should I try to move back? I’m just worried that the costs are going to be so high and work-life balance won’t be achievable.

    1. CM*

      Bostonian here, grew up in NY. Honestly? Your worries are spot on. Costs are going to be high and work-life balance will be difficult. I don’t know what you do or what your lifestyle is like, but to me it sounds like you have it all in Idaho — I can’t imagine moving away from family, a good job, and good work-life balance. What is it specifically that you miss about the Northeast? Maybe you could consider an extended vacation instead?

      1. Longtime Listener, First time Caller*

        I miss the history, easy access to arts and culture, diversity. Idaho is great for outdoors enthusiast, which I am a very lukewarm participant. I think it’s also just a general feeling of restlessness. I grew up moving around a bunch as a kid, and I loved it! I want the challenge and the adventure, but those feel like poor reasons to move.

    2. SparklingStars*

      I would think that it would depend exactly where in the northeast you are thinking of living. I grew up in upstate New York, and honestly the cost of living wasn’t that high. Same thing for more rural parts of Pennsylvania. But it was also a fairly rural area, so if you’re looking to live in a larger city, that would be a different story.

        1. Lora*

          Yes. Expect a commute of at least 1 hour, whether by car or transit, regardless of distance. The traffic and transit delays will make it that bad even if normally it would be 15 minutes. If you’re willing to suck up the commute though, it isn’t nearly as hard to find a job and a pretty decent one at that. And if a job doesn’t work out for whatever reason, it’s not as hard to find another. It’s not like there will be only one or two big employers within a 100-mile radius or anything.

          The hardest thing for me moving to the Boston area was that although I had what would have been a very respectable savings cushion *for the Midwest*, in Massachusetts that barely lasted three months. It’s just sooooo expensive and apartment searching is SO hard and the real estate market is SO tough. Housing costs are 3-5X what they were in the Midwest, even in the more distant suburbs. Renovating a house costs 3-5X what it normally would, because trades are all unionized and every contractor has a backlog, so whatever you buy, either it better be something you can live with as is or expect to do the renovation yourself. Food is 2X what it would cost in the Midwest, even though it’s actually coming from the same California agribusiness; it has nothing to do with additional shipping costs, it’s just *that’s what the market will bear*. Utilities are 2X what you’d pay to heat/light a similar place in the Midwest.

          Work/life balance I find is actually better overall here, just because there’s less unemployment, so bosses have to be at least a little nicer to you and they tend to offer a decent amount of PTO as part of compensation. It’s not unusual to get a month of PTO in my field in this area, whereas I was lucky to get two weeks in the Midwest after working somewhere for a whole year.

        2. CheeryO*

          You could easily have a short (15-30 minute) commute from the suburbs into downtown Buffalo or Rochester, unless you want to go ultra-rural. I don’t know much about Syracuse or Albany, but I assume they’re similar. The job market is okay to meh, depending on your field. COL is low but rents and home prices are rising fast, at least in Buffalo.

          I’m not sure if upstate NY will really scratch your history/culture itch, though. It’s still a haul to get to any major city other than Toronto from Buffalo or NYC from one of the more eastern cities.

    3. K.*

      I’ve spent my entire life in the urban northeast – my whole family has, going back generations. I know nothing about Idaho but I can only imagine that your COL would go way up if you’re looking to live in or near a major northeastern city, and depending on what you do for a living, your salary may not increase enough to make up the difference. Work/life balance might be attainable depending on what you do, but you’ll have to screen for it carefully – it’s not a given.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      Plus, I loved my childhood in the NE, and I want to give my kids that too.

      What did childhood in the NE provide that Idaho can’t offer?

      1. Longtime Listener, First time Caller*

        Arts, diversity, culture, interactive history (like going to Revolutionary War battlefields). Idaho is a great place, but I’m worried my children are going to turn out like others I’ve met in Idaho who think Idaho is the greatest place there is and that there is nothing beyond Idaho worth exploring.

        1. Inspector Spacetime*

          I’m from MN and moved to Boston for the art, diversity, culture, etc. I don’t regret it, but the COL difference is so bad. It’s so, so bad. If you travel a lot and make sure your kids know they have options, I wouldn’t worry about it. And even if they did turn out not wanting to leave Idaho, it’s not the worst thing in the world.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          Gotcha. Not that it solves your other issues, but people who grew up thinking there’s no reason to explore beyond Idaho got that way by never exploring beyond Idaho (and by being raised to believe it’s unnecessary). You can broaden your kids’ horizons even if you have to drive a little further to do so.

          1. Inspector Spacetime*

            +1 I grew up in MN but I always knew I wanted to leave and explore because my parents talked about all the places they had lived, and we traveled a lot.

        3. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

          Have you thought about Virginia? Lower COL, plenty of history (Jamestown etc), good public universities, less congestion than CT/NY/NJ. Less commute time. Outdoorsy stuff too ranging from beach to mountains.

    5. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I grew up in CT (Fairfield County) and I now live in NYC. I loved my childhood here. I would not raise my own children here. I make a decent amount of money but will never be able to afford a home unless I moved way out into the middle of nowhere and had a 2+ hour commute by train into the city. Which means I’d never be able to see the family that I was working so hard to support.

      Not to say you can’t make it work! This is all just my opinion/projected experience. But I think the COL would be a shock to the system. (Personally, I dream of moving to the midwest.)

    7. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      Hey fellow Idahoan! (well, I haven’t lived there in awhile, but I did grow up/go to college there). I gotta say, I live on the east coast (DC) and you couldn’t pay me to live back in Idaho. It’s not terrible, but like you I’m not really an outdoors person, and that’s a lot of what Idaho has to offer. (BTW, as I write this, I realized I’m totally assuming you’re white. Statistically, luck is on my side here, but if you’re not white, I apologize for the assumption and some of the below will be somewhat less applicable to you!)

      I would say, get out of Idaho what you can for you and your kids, and maybe set a goal to move to the east coast in X years? I’m from SE Idaho so that’s where a big part of my knowledge base is, but we had a decent museum or two, all the state/national parks nearby (check out Craters of the Moon if you haven’t already! so cool!), and cool stuff that is just much more affordable to do in Idaho (I’m thinking stuff like rock climbing, skiing, pottery, team sports…).

      For culture/diversity, alas, Idaho can be lacking for sure (I could count the number of black ppl I’d known personally on one hand until well after college. Like, the cumulative number). BUT. There are so many indigenous tribes and reservations that your kids can learn the history and appreciate the art of. There is SO MUCH GOOD MEXICAN FOOD. I can’t even express how much I miss good western-style mexican food living in DC. There’s almost none. Try to get your kids to learn Spanish in school and make hispanic friends and appreciate Mexican (and other Hispanic/Latino communities, though most of the hispanic people I know from Idaho are specifically of Mexican descent) culture and history.

      A lot of that is really hard to do on the East coast; or, at least, is a totally different set of history and culture (in DC there tend to be more Salvadorans than Mexicans, for instance, and of course the local indigenous tribes will be totally different). Try to use this time in Idaho to help your children understand that “Hispanic” or “Latino” or “Native American” aren’t monolithic cultures, and that lesson will only be complemented by what they learn as they travel the country and world (and maybe move to Buffalo when they’re teenagers?) :)

  99. Wrench Turner*

    As I get settled in a New Job, I’m learning the ins/outs of 1099 full-time contract work, I’m wondering what’s the best way to handle quarterly filing, tracking mileage and expenses. There’s lots of tasks and things I Must Do, which take time and driving. For the moment let’s assume I’m not going to have the “You’re an Employee, Harry” argument. I’m in MD but will be working in VA, DC and MD.

    Anyone have suggestions for methods, apps or resources to track this? Also I’m going to have to buy insurance and continue retirement investment stuff on my own. This is all new to me.

    The guy I’m training/getting licensed with is the local franchise owner and he’s very much a Dad. He can be very patronizing, spends a lot of time talking AT me, etc. Very different work style than me. It’s a big turn off – BUT! – once I’m licensed, etc I’ll be working on my own 99% of the time and I’m way looking forward to that.

      1. Bea*

        You fill out the estimated tax form.

        You come out with the number of what your taxes will be if you earn the projected amount. You pay the IRS 1/4 of that total every 3 months. It’s a worksheet a CPA or accounting professional could do for you for very little.

        I forget how my default is to think all accounting procedures are straight forward. Perhaps consult a bookkeeping service first, cheaper than a CPA and often networked or part of a CPA firm.

        1. many bells down*

          The thing is, I don’t have the faintest idea how much I’ll be making. Because this is a part-time job with irregular hours/days. I know that I’ll be working 30 hours over two weeks when there’s school breaks, and I know I’ll be working 6 weeks in the summer. But whether or not they make my class regular, or ask me to do some extra tutoring… that’s dependent on demand and feedback.

          1. Wrench Turner*

            This is the rub for me, too. I’ll get a percentage of the invoice for the Service (no selling, thank gods, people just book me) but how many of those bookings I’ll get is just unknown. It could suddenly change with a period of lousy weather. I heard (unhelpful) rumors of penalties for underestimating your payments, and money is real tight so I’d rather not over pay if I don’t have to even if we get money back. I know the IRS isn’t going to pay me interest on money I loan them.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I just use a basic spreadsheet for tracking mileage and expenses. I just list everything by date in one long list and then categorize it all at the end of the year, because it’s faster for me that way. There are more sophisticated ways to do it, but this one works and it’s simple. People tend to think this has to be more complicated than it really does.

      Quarterly tax filings — put the dates on your calendar now, and pay online at http://www.eftps.gov. If you don’t know how much you should be paying in, use this IRS form (skip straight to page 6): https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040es–2017.pdf

      1. Wrench Turner*

        I like the 1 spreadsheet for all of that, along with Bea’s weekly recordkeeping thing. I can keep it with my contacts log which I’ll need to keep anyway for my own sanity. Fortunately the contract doesn’t officially start until next month, these first couple of jobs ahead of that are because I was able to suddenly start working immediately.

    3. Bea*

      Spreadsheet. Scan and save all receipts. If you want to splurge, Quickbooks online is good bookkeeping for your scale.

      Get into the habit of recordkeeping weekly to stay on top of it. QB can also set reminders for you for filings.

  100. NaoNao*

    Am I crazy to consider going back to retail?

    I worked in retail for over 10 years as a late teen and 20-something and was very successful as far as that goes–making it to Store Manager at age 22.

    I left to go back to school and get a degree (the pay back in the 90s was abysmal), but still picked up retail part time jobs here and there throughout my school years.

    I transitioned to office work and am in a full time salaried career that’s decent and reasonably fulfilling, but I find myself drawn back to retail—I have a side gig selling vintage clothing for my own little online shop and love it. I also had a weekends-only high end retail store gig a couple years ago and enjoyed that too.

    By chance I found a visual merchandiser job listing and applied with a tailored resume and cover letter highlighting my previous “job path”, somewhat on a whim. And now I find myself thinking…maybe I should pursue that more pointedly? Such as taking a weekend merchandising gig and going from there?

    I’ve been spared in two back to back layoffs in a company that conducts layoffs very, very regularly, and I decided to start up a job search and get out while the getting was good. The job search was fine–I even got an offer! But something is off—the jobs feel stale, lateral moves, and the management offerings seem like “no thanks” and hard to get since I have no professional corporate management experience.

    I am totally aware of all the pitfalls of retail, since I was in that field for so long, and I’d be very careful to take a job with a salary that works for me, health insurance, and hopefully minimal customer interaction, but I’m asking myself: am I nuts to go back to a field so many are spending so much energy trying to get out of?

    1. SpaceNovice*

      What parts about retail did you like? See if there’s higher end retail or sales jobs that you might be able to transition to. I believe General Managers for stores are paid relatively well. And there’s even going into your own business. Some areas have 7 day a week markets as well (for starting a smaller business). People also make money demonstrating products at conferences, selling specialized products to high end clients, and there is also higher end retail that may pay more. There are also people that help design stores, do process improvements for retail shops, etc.

      You’re not crazy for wanting to go back to retail, but with the unfortunate state of how companies treat their front-end employees, you’ll have to be picky. It’ll require some research on your part. I’m afraid I don’t know enough about how retail works to offer suggestions, but you can probably troll through job boards and LinkedIn to start getting idea of available position types.

    2. Wrench Turner*

      I really liked the retail job I had. I joke with friends/family often that when my art starts selling well enough to only need a part-time job, I’m going back in to retail at the art supply store I used to work at just for the discounts. I looked at it like this: I genuinely enjoy helping people solve their problem of What do I need and Why do I need this vs that? It was great because it was something I actually knew something about. If they already wanted something specific, even better! I could get them in/out super fast. The best part of retail for me is not getting commission, as odd as it may sound. I don’t want pressure to upsell them something they don’t want. I’m all about 100% honest interactions. You’re not crazy if it made you happy.

  101. Ask a Manager* Post author

    A question for your input: With the open threads regularly getting close to 2,000 comments on them, I’ve increasingly heard that people find them hard to use, or pass them by altogether because they see an overwhelming number of comments on them.

    I’m contemplating asking that the open threads be used just for actual requests for help/advice, and not for posts like “what’s the weirdest thing you’ve ever seen in someone’s desk at work” or other non-advicey things. Those posts often get 100+ replies and thus really contribute to the high number of comments. On the other hand, the high number of comments on those threads indicates that at least some portion of people really like those — but I’m trying to balance that against keeping these useful for people and not overwhelming. I’d welcome thoughts!

    1. CatCat*

      Can there just be two different open threads? One for “ask the commentariat for specific advice” and one for “shooting the breeze about work stuff”?

      1. Mockingjay*

        I was thinking along the same lines. Open Thread themes to direct comments. Specific questions and shoot the breeze (’cause those threads can be wild and really fun to read!).

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Makes logical sense, but I don’t think I want to add a third open thread (the second one being the weekend one) — seems like too much to me when they were always intended to be a side thing rather than a main focus of the site. (It’s a good suggestion though!)

        1. KitKat*

          Other people might feel differently, but I wouldn’t mind if there were one work advice open thread on Friday, and a “shoot the breeze” about anything, including work or school on the weekend.

          But I read/contribute to the weekend thread much less and therefore don’t care as much about it being a “safe space” from work/school.

        2. Sal*

          Maybe there is a way to mark your comment as question or shoot the breeze silly type stuff. Then, like the expand/collapse button, readers could filter out whatever they wanted to see. I think you might have to make it mandatory to pick one of the other, otherwise people tend to skip over fields like that

          1. Fabulous*

            I’ve always wanted another level to the expand/collapse options… Currently it’s either all or nothing. Can we have an option to expand only one level at a time? Like the Expand/Collapse at the top would be all or nothing, but within the thread it would help to be able to expand by level. That’d help make posts easier to skim.

              1. Sal*

                I think Fabulous means, open not the whole thread but only the next level of replies. So on an original comment A, B and C reply. B1 and B2 reply to B, and C1 and C2 reply to C. So the expanded comment thread looks like A, -B, –B1, –B2, -C, –C1, –C2.
                Fabulous wants to just open the next level, B and C, but NOT B1, B2, C1, C2. So it would look like A, -B, -C. Then maybe once reading comment C, they could open C1 and C2, but not B1 and B2….if that’s not too confusing :)

        3. JamieS*

          What about asking people to post non-advice comments in the free for all? I’m not sure where venting about work posts would go though.

      3. Anxa*

        I think one of the potential drawbacks to that I would imagine advice seekers to be more driven to read an advice only comment section than potential advice givers.

    2. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      Personally, I like the non-help questions. I don’t (often) need help. Nor am I in much of a position to offer help. So I appreciate the opportunity to interact with commenters. Plus, it’s a nice lighthearted thing to look forward to at the end of the week.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I love the non-help ones. They’re fun. I come for those and then answer some advice-y ones too.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          Also this is our biggest issue with derailing on the actual Q&A letters – people start listing whimsical references or whatever, or talking about some side topic and not giving advice. So it’s nice to have a place that such things “belong” (and it’s not on the letter comments).

    3. Goya de la Mancha*

      Guilty, sorry!

      It’s hard, because I feel like sometimes those “weird” ones offer a little whimsy to all the depressed/stressed posts. But the depressed/stressed ones obviously offer more valuable content.

    4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I think I’d err on the side of not making new rules. Mostly because that would be something you’d have to police — and figuring out what fell on which side of the rule could get really hard.

    5. Natalie*

      For whatever its worth, I personally find the amount of top level comments to be the breaking point – those short “favorite/what if/best” questions don’t even register because they’re one or two sentences and I have replied collapsed. I find I automatically skip over anything that’s really long (4+ paragraphs) or that doesn’t mention the topic in the first sentence or two. YMMV.

      I suppose its possible a lot of people don’t open the thread at all because of the number of comments, but when do you think that kicks in? My suspicion is that it’s somewhere around 300-500, and I don’t know if you can actually get the number of comments down that low.

      1. Lily Evans*

        I agree with your first paragraph. I comment more on weekend threads than Friday threads because it’s less overwhelming even when there are a lot of comments because once I collapse the threads it’s much more manageable. The Friday thread is still completely unwieldy when threads are collapsed. So it’s less the total comment number and more the number of separate new comments (and the length of those separate comments!).

      3. Goya de la Mancha*

        “or that doesn’t mention the topic in the first sentence or two.”

        This. I love the posts that ask a succinct question and then tell the context in the next paragraph. So much easier to get through the information when you can skim topics.

        1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

          I heard of BLUF as a rule of communication (bottom line up front) right around the time I moved to mainly written correspondence at work, and I’ve found it tremendously helpful.

      4. The Curator*

        I like hearing people’s odd work stories and anecdotes. They are not “real” work questions. I also like the “check ins” best/worst, what are you procrastinating on, (this actually has helped me get things done) because we wouldn’t do that on the weekend open thread. Home sick so I am reading everything. Perhaps two Friday open threads- one for check-ins and the other fro “Help, I am on PIP and what do I do?” thread.

    6. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I don’t think it’s threads generating lots of replies that really creates the issue — that’s what the collapse function is for! On the other hand, I do think breaking up “ask the commentariat for advice” and “chat generally about work/school” could potentially be two separate posts.

    7. Inspector Spacetime*

      I agree with the others who are saying that long comment chains aren’t an issue. Yeah, I tend not to comment on ones that already have a lot of comments because I figure there’s nothing new I could add, but they don’t bother me. I just collapse them, as well.

    8. Anonymous Poster*

      Split it up, maybe something like:
      – Ask the AAM Community your workplace question
      – Work stories & shareables
      – Non-work related thread/potpurri

    9. Ruth (UK)*

      I do find the open thread a bit long to navigate these days and I also tend to feel I’d never get a chance to get replies. I’m not sure what time of day it goes up where you are, but for me I suppose it goes up some time while I’m at work. Because I can’t really go on the site while at work (or even if I might be able to briefly check it, I definitely don’t have time to post), by the time I get a chance to look properly, there are usually around 700 commends already.

      That said, I’m not sure what you can do about the number of comments. I agree with the comment above about it probably being better not to bring in more rules about what can be posted especially as a lot of people obviously like replying to those types of posts. I’m not sure if having another type of open thread is something you’d want?

      Maybe you could post two at the same time on Fridays, one for people looking for advice and one for work based discussion that is not specifically wanting advice (ie. The other types of comments)

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Ultimately it’s too far outside of my mission, which is really just to give workplace advice, and not so much to provide a discussion forum, although that’s turned into a nice side effect. And I’d worry that separate forums would lead to me hosting unmoderated discussion boards where I couldn’t really vouch for the quality of the advice (not that I can in the comments either, but it’s easier for me to keep an eye on things here and jump in if something’s egregious — although I don’t always see everything here either).

        A commenter once told me that the owner of Offbeat Empire has said that creating forums was her worst business decision because it cannibalized her traffic from the places where she wanted it and sort of turned into a monster that required constant resources. And that has stuck with me too!

    11. RG2*

      It’s pretty overwhelming and I’ve read the threads less and less over time (other than to occasionally search for your comments). I think you may have hit a volume where you need a tagging system so people who want to engage can do so on the things they’re interested in. That could either be actual tags or something that people can search for on the page. One option could be categorical: advice needed, venting, story time, question for the commentariat, etc. Another could be topics (job hunting, coworker relations, hiring, etc).

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          I’ve been thinking of doing one ask-the-readers post every week, actually (in part because my work schedule is crazy right now, and in part because they’re just often really interesting).

          1. Lil Fidget*

            I will say more “ask the readers” is probably a super easy way for you to get more posts out / answer more questions AND a good way to get us Chatty Kathy’s off the open thread if we just feel social on a Friday (guilty).

    13. Anecdata*

      I find the “How does your company do X?” or “What helps you Y” threads really useful (for building my understanding of what’s common & normal in different workplaces; for exposure to new ideas/ways of doing things I would have never thought of; for insight into how different industries work). These are kind of a midground between “weirdest desk sight” questions and actual advice questions, but I wouldn’t want to lose them!

    14. Hellanon*

      It’s easy enough to browse the open threads with comments collapsed & just open them if you are interested in the topics. Personally, I find the slightly random threadjacks are great for light reading at lunch… I’d hate to see things change as I think the way the conversations go meets a lot of different needs, not just the need for advice on a given situation.

    15. HannahS*

      Gosh I don’t know! I love them the way they are, but I’m someone who goes through and basically reads the whole thing. Could you maybe set it so that the default is to show the page with all threads collapsed, with a button to open them all for those of us who are interested*?

      *am not tech-y, have no idea how hard/easy this is.

    16. Janet (Not A Girl)*

      I’d be really disappointed if that change was made. The more general discussion is interesting and is what makes me read these open threads.

      With the ability to collapse threads, lots of comments really isn’t a big problem.

    17. Iris Carpenter*

      I think the basic problem is that the traffic has outgrown the simple nested comment structure. Groklaw at one time was attracting a similar volume of comments, but the fully threaded & nest-able commenting system made it manageable. If a comment could have a title, and you could collapse to top level titles only, that would make it much more manageable.

    18. Mediamaven*

      Two ideas a little off topic – But is there a way you could have all replies automatically collapsed so people could read replies only on the things they want to see? Then there wouldn’t be as much scrolling through. Also, I like how Jezebel does the comments there.

      Also, I would love a function where I could star or like someone’s comment! :)

      1. Natalie*

        Oh, hard pass on Kinja, personally. I’ve been reading here for 7 or 8 years and I would quit over Kinja. If Alison wanted to switch to a third party commenting system there are better ones to chose from.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          I’ve looked into other commenting systems and this is the only one that really works for the site for a variety of reasons (nothing does everything I want, but this one does more than any other), but I’m curious to know what you hate about Kinja (although there is no risk of me using it here).

          1. KinjaUser*

            It’s ridiculously glitchy and their tech support (at least in the fusion/former-gawker verse) is extremely slow to respond.

            There was an issue a few years back where trolls would post pornographic pictures in the comments and there wasn’t an easy way to get rid of them, other than individually flag the comments. What ended up happening is that in order for your comment to show up first, an author or blog had to “follow” you or else you were “in the greys” (where you had to click an extra button to show the gray comments and all images were blacked out).

            Plus it makes it a lot easier to stalk/harass other people – automatically by having a username you are given a “personal blog” page which has all of your comments available to read.

      2. You're Not My Supervisor*

        Was going to suggest the same thing re: automatically collapse and only expand what you want.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          You can set that as a preference on your personal browser. Over on the right hand sidebar near the bottom, there’s an option to “collapse/expand all threaded comments”.

    19. Accidental Analyst*

      I don’t know if it’s possible but there are two changes that might make thing s more manageable.

      1. The ability to collapse/roll up top level comments. So if I’m not interested in following a thread all I’ll see is the OPs name. Easier to spot the threads I’m interested in and newer threads

      2. The ability to refresh replies within a thread without refreshing the whole page. So I can quickly check if someone has already done a similar response before replying

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        We have #1 right now! There’s an option at the top of comment section to expand or collapse everything.

        You can #2 now too, but it’s not obvious. You have to click on the top level comment (the blue date line), which brings up the URL of that specific comment, and then reload it.

        1. Accidental Analyst*

          Yes I’m aware of these options. What I’m proposing is taking these a step further.

          If I use the current collapse all function I still have to scroll through the threads that I’m not interested in following. If I could roll them up it would look ng like this

          Op1
          Op2
          Op3
          Op4
          Contents of their post
          Op5
          Op6
          Contents of their post

          So much easier to scroll to what I’m interested in

          With the second point, if I want to comment on a thread but I haven’t checked all new posts/responses I have to decide between commenting without checking for newer responses, reading remaining new threads/responses, or refreshing and losing the blue line for the things I haven’t read. This one is less of a big deal – especially if the first could be done

    20. Todd Chrisley Knows Best*

      What about adding a “weirdest/worst/wackiest/wildest/whateverist” post during the week? Posters could email you the stories and then you could choose one to lead in to the question. That way we have it out of our systems and we know we have a shot at sharing our horror stories on Wednesday or whatever. Kind of like the free space in Bingo – you know it’s there but you can’t act on it until it’s time to call Bingo. I know it would probably be an influx in your emails, but what about a separate account for that? And re: having to moderate a lot, I think a reminder on each post about the rule change in addition to one lump post would do wonders for cleaning that up.

    21. Elizabeth H.*

      Personally, I feel that they’re harder to use and I feel overwhelmed when there are so many comments. Here are my suggestions.

      a) Limit the Friday open thread to requests for work help/advice only – but allow a monthly “all things go” Friday open work talk thread
      b) Limit the Friday open thread to requests for work help/advice only – with no non-advice-y things at all (what you say above you’re contemplating doing)
      c) Alternate it every other week

      My favorite is option a! I feel very strongly against switching the commenting system. I don’t want this to be a forum like reddit, I like that it’s primarily an advice webpage. I like a small amount of personal but I think the more complex the commenting structure gets, the more clique-y/interpersonal things get (even on work related discussions). So I don’t feel the need for more “openness” than we already have. I used to post on the AV Club and we had an open thread thing that spun off into a forum – it became too cliquey/just a social club at the end – everything with a complex commenting structure does. I think if the non-work general talk threads were less frequent, maybe it would discourage this a bit in a good way – I wouldn’t mind if we went back to monthly open threads as opposed to weekly.

    22. nep*

      I can see why you’d be thinking along these lines, given what the work open thread sometimes becomes.
      I think the option to collapse all replies is a great feature, especially handy for anyone not so interested in non-advicey items. I’d prefer the two open threads to remain as they are — sticking to work-related for the first, then purely non-work, non-school for the second. My 2 cents.

    23. Parenthetically*

      My interaction with them varies from week to week depending on if I’m going to be around in the afternoons. It’s definitely overwhelming if I don’t get to it until late afternoon or evening, but it doesn’t seem so overwhelming if I get to it earlier.

      If the open thread becomes “ask for advice” only, could we lift the work chat ban on the free-for-all thread? Like, “If you need advice, go to the open thread. If you want to chat about or ask random questions about or vent about work, do it here?” That doesn’t seem ideal either — I often just have a work-related WTF or a quick poll for open thread that doesn’t really belong in free-for-all.

    24. Audiophile*

      I think both open threads serve a purpose. I will say, that if I have a question for the Friday open thread, I try to get in early. It makes it easier for me. I part of what may make it difficult is new or newer readers who aren’t familiar with the open threads. If they don’t read the blurb at the beginning, they probably post non work things. Maybe specifically calling it the “work open thread” in the title, might help.

      As someone who’s been a reader and commenter for a while, I’ve noticed the open thread on Friday seems to fill up fast. Like between 11-11:30 it balloons to 1000 comments. This didn’t seem to happen as much when the open threads only appeared on holidays or other random days. I think some of that may because of the increase in traffic.

    25. LaterKate*

      I really enjoy the open thread the way it is now. I would probably read less if it was changed to strictly work advice only, and I’m guessing that you would lose some interaction from other commenters as well. I agree that it is easy to collapse comments and then just skim until you find something you want to read. And i think that having the open thread the way it is now gives people the opportunity to say (in normal posts) “hey, this is getting off topic. Let’s discuss on Friday” and probably leads to fewer off topic tangents.

      1. CM*

        +1 — I wasn’t going to comment because Alison seems to be asking for advice on how to make improvements (also because it’s Monday), but I like things the way they are. I rarely read the entire thread, and that’s OK. I usually scroll through quickly, and comment on posts near the end that don’t have a lot of comments yet. Sometimes if I have time on Mondays I’ll peruse the entire thread. I would be sad if the general discussion went away. I really enjoy that about the Friday open thread.

    26. TassieTiger*

      Would you be open to Allowing a fan site forum to be run, similar to “friends of captain awkward”?

  102. Hillary*

    I did it!

    I gave my notice back in October, and was offered a job I started interviewing for back in June while I was sitting in an exit interview in January. Three weeks in I really like my new role. Thanks all for your support and Alison for the great advice.

  103. Anonymous Griever*

    I’m looking for some advice: I left a toxic workplace recently in the wake of several particularly tragic developments in people’s lives that had nothing to do with work. I was looking anyway but the way that these developments were handled made me really glad I made the decision I did.
    One of these developments was the death of one of my close colleagues. We knew she was ill – she was on medical leave and then resigned – but she was young and it was still a shock. There was no space for processing it. The director actually sent a mass email while he was working from home and there was no management on site. They are having a memorial reception for her coming up, and I’m really torn about what to do. Part of me wants to go, but then part of me thinks this place was so absolutely toxic that it might make things worse for me. I keep thinking I *should* go but I don’t know who the should is for.
    I’m not so much wondering if I should go. I either will or I won’t. I guess I’m wondering how to protect myself if I do go. Writing that down seems sort of dumb, but I wasn’t very good at having armor up when I was there and this event, how it was handled, etc really impacted me and how I viewed the world. (fwiw I’m not young! I’ve lost so many colleagues and friends, this situation just feel really sticky.) Anyhow, thanks for any advice.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      I’m sorry that you’re going through this, and about your coworker. Is there anyone you could bring with you for moral support? Maybe a former colleague you’re close with, or your spouse/partner?

    2. Margery*

      So sorry for your loss. You must be so upset and confused. I think you should go (and reading your post I think you want to go). Is there someone else who could go with you not associated with your old toxic workplace, a partner, brother, sister?

      You’re going for your friend not for your old colleagues and it won’t just be them it will be her family and her close friends who will be there.

      If, on the other hand you decide that you can’t go, could you take time off your new job and have your own kind of memorial at home where you remember your friend.

      Good luck to you and, once again, sorry for your loss.

    3. Lipsy Magoo*

      So sorry for your loss. It’s tough to know what to do, I’m big into protecting myself as I’ve gotten older and will not put myself into positions where I feel unsafe…

      That being said could you bring someone with you and maybe have a plan to stay only a short while? Could you send something to the family instead of going?

      Glad you were able to leave and wishing you the best in your new job.

  104. Butch Cassidy*

    Venting:

    I work in a customer-service-type department (though I’m not in a customer-facing role) and I’m very tired of how people talk about the associates here. Everyone is an adult, and we even have grandparents in these positions, but higher-ups talk about them like they’re children. “Set a good example, they’re impressionable,” for example, or the way that our adjustments to a non-associate role after getting promoted – e.g. taking breaks whenever we want, flexibility in how we distribute our 40 hours a week – gets the response of “You’re adults.”

    It’s not that associates are “less adult” than us, it’s that their schedules are far more strictly regimented. It’s their circumstances – the way leadership treats them – that infantilizes them, nothing they’re doing.

    It’s disrespectful to people who already work the toughest jobs in our department for the lowest pay and get the least respect even before this talk starts up.

    1. asteramella*

      Could you push back on these comments? “What an odd thing to say” re: the impressionable comment, or “Oh, everyone who works here is an adult—we don’t hire minors, right?”

  105. UtOh!*

    In my company, if you are competent and get the work done on time, you are loaded up to the point of breaking…while the majority can just slide by doing the minimum. I am in the former category, had my performance review yesterday, in which I cried (for less than 2 minutes) out of frustration that I am not able to perform my job at the level I used to because everyone comes to me with requests/issues (we are a 5 person team). This has been a problem for YEARS and I’ve always gotten the same response. My boss said I was doing a terrific job and not to worry about it and to push back when people give me tasks that a.) anyone else could do, and b.) give me no warning and expects me to do it immediately. It bugged me in that it sounded like lip service especially since we are graded from 1-5 for our performance in different areas (technical expertise, attendance, safety, customer service, etc.), I was told everyone loves working with me, from coworkers to customers because I’m friendly, funny, and can speak in technical or lay terms. But out of total score of 5, I received a 3+? I get the same percentage of raise every year, and we do get a (small) bonus, but there is no where for me to move up in this company. We are a small company, and I work in IT, but we have many different systems to support. Because I’m part of a Helpdesk, I’m viewed as just a glorified technical support person though I also do functional and technical analysis and development. Oh, and one last comment my manager made? “This place would crumble without you.” Ah, if only…I have three more courses to complete my Bachelor’s degree and lots of experience, so this may be the year they have to learn to work without me holding everything together.

    2. analytica*

      Ughhhh nooooo. Get out get out get out.

      One of my coworkers said “what would we do without you?” very casually the other day and I just kind of awkwardly paused and didn’t respond… like I really really don’t know what you guys would do! Probably freak out.

    3. Babayaga*

      Are you staying in order to complete your degree? Just asking in case your job is giving you a tuition benefit or something. If that were the case, I would personally try to finish up the degree and move on.

      I guess either way, I would try to move on. From personal experience I can say you’re in a no win situation…if you try to unload or not take on as much, you will be the focus of criticism because you’re considered reliable and can get the job done. My boss would tell me to push back and then never supported me when I did. My father always used to say to me that “people who want work will be busy” with regard to this situation. I kind of hate that, some workplaces really are like that.

      1. UtOh!*

        Hi Babayaga,
        I have been working for this company for almost 14 years and only in the last few did I start using my tuition reimbursement to finish my degree so yes, I want to absolutely use that benefit for these last few courses. It’s so hard to put my focus on looking for something else, I am signed up with many job search apps but I don’t see anything earth shattering. I make a nice salary, but that’s about it, I don’t use the medical benefits, my husband’s are better, I commute 45 minutes each way, don’t socialize with my coworkers because I think most of them are just good for nothing, and we don’t have the same interests. Also the weight I’ve gained from the stress is really starting to affect my health, I’m achy all the time, or have stomach problems. I have to start focusing on my health, come hell or high water. Thanks for listening to my ranting, I will take it one day at a time, and start pushing back to see what happens…!

        2. Misa*

          Best of luck to you! I am poking around the threads looking for suggestions on how to handle staying at my dysfunctional job a bit longer without losing my mind and saw your post…

          I can relate… and I tried to talk to my manager about how I have to step in and do other departments tasks at times (like scheduling interviewees for HR because they are so incompetent but it’s inefficient, external people think I work in HR, etc…) and she could not get past the fact I do it well, why wouldn’t I keep doing it, this is what she wants. And she is one of 4 Senior Execs who could say something but refuses to.

          Hoping you find another place that’s a better fit very soon!

  106. partingxshot*

    Looking for some advice from those of you in higher ed…

    I work in a university office that requires niche specialized knowledge. I am also early in my career (my first job was 1-2 steps above typical entry level for the field). Recently, I was contacted by a colleague across campus who directed by attention to a job posting for her own office, with compliments on my work and encouragement to contact her if I was interested in learning more.

    The position would allow me to do some slightly more creative, “big picture” work than I am doing now (along with my current responsibilities) and I definitely plan to at least contact her for more info (though I’m also happy where I’m at). However, the very top of the posted salary range is…almost exactly what I currently make.

    From those of you in higher ed, is it typical/usually possible to negotiate salary the way you’d negotiate in other industries? More importantly, is it typical to negotiate above the posted range? On the one hand, the worst they can say is no–but on the other, I really am not sure about leaving a job I genuinely like for a smaller (brand-new) office that is clearly still being defined (“must be comfortable in a role that may change by the day”). I plan to do more investigation regardless, but would this even be worth the risk if I’d have to push for a higher salary than they indicated?

    Also, I’m not even sure if it’s a title bump in the world of higher ed. My title now is “lead advisor,” while this would be “coordinator”–a title I’ve also seen associated with entry-level roles.

    Any thoughts?

    1. Alex*

      I work at a public university and salaries associated with certain job classifications are very rigid. It’s possible if it is a new position there might be more flexibility. If the job ad lists the range, I wouldn’t expect to be able to negotiate much higher than what’s given, but it never hurts to ask. As far as job titles, where I am we have our position title, which is usually very vague, like “University Program Associate” and working titles which are more descriptive of what you actually do. You may be able to convince the manager to change it to match your experience level.

      1. partingxshot*

        Thanks, that’s a good point–I suspected I might not be able to successfully negotiate above the posted range, but maybe the title would be a more logical approach.

        I guess I’m also worried that in this case, my youth will work against me…even if I have the experience and knowledge they’re looking for, I’m still really obviously within the first 4 years of my post-college career. I don’t know that they’d appreciate me pushing too hard for classification changes. I’ll get a better sense of things when I’ve had a chance to chat with this person, I suppose.

    2. fposte*

      In my experience, it’s very hard to negotiate for over the top of a listed range; usually they’d have to get that separately approved from on high. It’s also likelier to happen at the higher end of positions–deans, faculty, etc. Do you have a specific hard-to-get credential or skill that would clearly up your value to this position?

      I’m agnostic on the title issue, since “coordinator” gets used in all kinds of ways.

      1. partingxshot*

        The main value I’m bringing is specialized knowledge. I know this department is trying to build a network of teapot suppliers and incorporate more teapot retreats for students; I have a wide-ranging network of connections and overall knowledge of the teapot industry and have participated in or helped manage similar retreats. However, none of this is connected to specific credentials (or skills tbh, other than the ability to speak in front of large groups).

    3. LAI*

      I’m not sure exactly what you do but I would consider coordinator a lower title than lead advisor. I agree that coordinator usually implies a pretty entry-level position. And unfortunately, I’m not aware of any cases where someone was hired above the range for a job – I’m not sure it’s even possible. At our university, I think the only way to increase your salary over your range is to get promoted into whatever title would have a higher range. I most commonly see offices trying to hire at the midpoint of their stated range, but there are obvious exceptions to that.

      I’d say it can’t hurt to talk to this person but you’d probably either have to love the job enough that you’d be willing to take it without a pay increase, or ask them if there’s the possibility of reclassifying the role should you get it. For example, if it’s currently listed as a coordinator I but you would bring a lot more skills to the role, they may be willing to reclassify it as a coordinator II.

  107. paul*

    For the love of god, why don’t companies put salary ranges and benefits information in job listings? At what point does that usually get discussed?

    1. Goya de la Mancha*

      Amen.

      Unfortunately, my experience is that it’s not discussed until an offer has been proposed to the interview.

    2. anon24*

      I’ve always been in more entry level, lowskilled jobs (in my mid 20s and wasn’t able to afford college) and I would never even apply to a job without knowing the hourly rate. If you don’t list it, I’m assuming it’s too low.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Same. Give me a range so I can self-select out. Also, “pay depends on experience” usually means “we’re looking for someone with almost no experience so we don’t have to pay very much.”

    3. NaoNao*

      Because if they put 75-90K, everyone will ask for 90K and be hurt and angry when they’re offered 80K for various reasons.
      Because the poo bah’s won’t release a number, or are insisting it’s contingent on what the candidate made in other jobs previously.
      Because a policy of transparency like that might lead to some ugly revelations and a huge loss of good people (a terrible reason, but it might be one)
      Because current employees will get angry and leave when they see new hires being offered “up to 90K” when they were hired at 55K and have been given stingy COL raises every year since.
      Because they might be willing to go up to 100K for the right candidate but don’t want to put that because then everyone will ask for 100K and time/energy/money will be spent on interviewing candidates that will decline the job when offered 80K.
      Finally, because they want to get the best candidate for the least amount of money possible, as benefits a corporation whose only job is to make money for the shareholders (not bitter at all!) so revealing their cards is not a good strategy.

    4. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

      My company discusses compensation during the initial phone interview. And it’s at the beginning too, so we don’t get all the way through a half hour conversation only to realize that it doesn’t make sense to continue the process when we get to comp.

      We ascribe to a lot of the reasons NaoNao mentioned for not including it in the postings, but we also want to make sure we are on the same page on comp as soon as possible. We don’t want to get to the end of an interview process and realize we are $20k below a candidate’s asking salary just as much as job seeker’s don’t want to.

  108. Stephern*

    I’m looking for ideas on what to bring to lunch (on a daily basis)! How do you build your lunch? Do you have any lunch-focused cookbooks or favorite recipes? I sometimes find myself bringing the same thing over and over and eventually getting tired of it, so any and all ideas or suggestions are welcome!

    1. Goya de la Mancha*

      I usually just bring left overs (which I don’t mind, but some people are finicky about them). Some weeks I meal prep just some basic stuff like roasted veggies and rice/quinoa so I can throw in a protein and call it a meal in a hurry.

    2. Lillian Gilbreth*

      I meal prep my lunches and breakfasts on the weekends, and I’ve found I don’t get tired of my lunch as long as I pick something I’m excited about eating AND as long as I switch it up week to week. Early on I would frequently google “easy meal prep” or “simple lunch prep recipes” or something along those lines. There are a few recipe websites I like and check fairly regularly (Budget Bytes being my favorite – and she posts meal preps occasionally!) Mainly I find something I like and stick with variations of it. For example, I’m a big fan of kale salad with honey mustard dressing. I can add apples and walnuts and goat cheese to it, or tortellini and prosciutto, or whatever else I have laying around. That way the same base can be combined in different ways. I’m also a big fan of vaguely Mexican food for lunches. Beans and/or meat + veggies + cheese + tortilla and/or rice = tasty, filling, and cheap. Rotating between a salad, quesadillas/burritos, and something simple like pasta and mixing in new recipes as I find them keeps me interested in my food!

      1. The Librarian (not the type from TNT)*

        Exactly this, only I do soup for the week instead of salad. I can make enough for five days of lunches in about one hour on a Sunday. It’s filling and very economical. I work in a library, so I have the advantage of access to a lot of cookbooks. :-)

    3. Inspector Spacetime*

      I usually either bring leftovers, prep something on Sunday that I bring for lunch all week, or just throw a collection of fruits and veggies in a bag and call it day. (I’m a lazy person, haha).

    4. Alex*

      Disclaimer: I am totally fine with no variety in my diet so…

      I usually bring a “main course”, such as rice and beans and sweet potatoes, baked pasta with veggies, or something frozen from Trader Joes; a “side item”, like popcorn, pretzels, or trail mix; and some type of fruit, usually an apple. I typically eat the same thing every day, but you can switch up one or more components to get more variety. I hate cooking more than once a week so I make a large amount of something on Sunday and portion it out to last for several days.

    5. clow*

      The past few years I have been doing bento style meals a lot. I like variety, so for me, knowing I have a colorful and interesting lunch really makes the day a bit better. They aren’t super elaborate and shaped in special ways or anything, but i do try to make sure I have some different colors.
      Other than that, I do a lot of freezer meals, they look similar to those frozen meals you find and the grocery store, but homemade. If you have access to a microwave, these are awesome. I make big batches of stuff like lasagna, enchiladas, rice, roasted veg etc and put meals together and freeze. Soup also freezes very well usually, so sometimes I will take a block of frozen soup along with a smaller lunch. Sorry for the long response, I just love lunch and I spend too much time thinking about it lol

    6. HannahS*

      My main meal of the day is lunch, and I’m cooking for one. Generally, on Sunday, I spend about an hour cooking whatever I’m going to eat that week–and if I’ve organized correctly, that’s ALL the cooking I do that week. I might make popcorn or scramble some eggs, but no other major cooking gets done til the following Sunday. My main dishes are usually a stew or a stir-fry over a starch. Then I also bring fruit (something easy, like an apple or two clementines), and maybe a snack (nuts, seeds, crackers, maybe something sweet).
      Things I’ve had in the last few weeks:
      -tomato-lentil stew with cheese on top
      -beef + green breen stir fry over brown rice
      -stewed beans and cornbread
      -chicken and green bean red curry stir fry (pad prik king; it’s SO good) on brown coconut rice
      -bean and barley stew with crackers
      -breaded chicken or fish (from the frozen section) and green beans over mashed potatoes
      -sausage and veggie tray bake–this is by fair the easiest of all
      -hard boiled eggs, some cubed cheese, crackers

      One thing that’s been important in terms of not getting bored is not making the same kind of thing two weeks in a row. If I have something tomato-based, I wait at least a month before making another tomato-based dish. If I had beans, the next week I have meat, eggs, or fish. If I had a stew, next week is a stir-fry. That way, each week is completely different from the previous week and I don’t hit a wall–a couple of years ago I overdid it and couldn’t look at a tomato or white bean without feeling a bit of revulsion for almost a year!

    7. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      I like to make a frittata every week, but I put different things in them so it doesn’t seem like the same thing over and over. For instance, one week I made it with cheddar, broccoli, and bacon. That one was my husband’s favorite. I either eat them cold on top of a bed of spinach, or I’ll warm it up with some leftover rice and some salsa. I hope this link is okay, this is my go-to recipe. If you don’t have a cast iron skillet, it also pours very nicely in a 12 muffin tin. https://www.bonappetit.com/test-kitchen/common-mistakes/article/frittata-common-mistakes.

    8. Epiee*

      A frozen meal (usually Amy’s) and a yogurt. I also keep a stash of soup and a 4-pack of yogurt at work for days I am carrying too much to also bring my lunch.

      This is a shockingly filling combination, can be really cheap if you like more than one brand and buy whichever is on sale, and comes recommended by my husband’s dietician. Even though you are doing the same thing every day, you can get a lot of variety by buying several flavors/types and putting them together differently. I can typically do this for months before I get sick of it.

      I have successfully frozen almost any hot food I would typically make for dinner. If once every week or two, you make a batch of something that is weeknight-level easy and just freeze it all, you will end up with a nice variety of stuff you like ready to go for very little effort. Then you can just sub in a store bought frozen meal if you miss a week or want a break.

    9. Chaordic One*

      I have a wide-mouth thermos and during the winter months I bring a lot of hot soups, along with a sandwich or a salad. In the summer I’m more likely to go with salads and fruit.

  109. ScaredyCat*

    I know people have different opinions on this, so I’m curious: How much stuck do you take in really bad Glassdoor reviews?

    I’m interviewing for an interesting role at a fairly recognizable start up, but some of the Glassdoor reviews are AWFUL. It’s literally a mix of 5-star reviews (possibly planted?) and 1-star reviews about how leadership is abusive and everyone is miserable, with no middle ground in between. There are a significant amount of reviews, too, so I don’t think it’s one or two disgruntled employees. It also sounds like the company may literally have sued Glassdoor at some point though it’s hard to find info on that…

    I’m pretty unhappy at my current job but it’s not an unhealthy or abusive environment, so my instincts are telling me to err on the side of turning this down if I do get an offer, since the reviews are so harsh. But it would be a significant salary bump and a more interesting line of work, so is it unwise to take Glassdoor this seriously?

    (I’m planning on asking about management style and the like when I go to the office in person soon, but since the reviews talk about how management deceives employees I’m not confident that the answers I get will paint an accurate picture…)

    2. sesame plexer*

      It’s interesting you should ask. My company had layoffs + took away a bunch of perks and literally the next day our Glassdoor reviews were all people who had been let go or were still there but pissed about what they took away. We’ve had people not accept jobs because of it. I haven’t been there long enough to really write what I would consider a helpful review, but I’d just say to keep in mind if you see a ton of negative reviews, it might be b/c of a major event.

      1. ScaredyCat*

        Ah, good point! I did notice most of the negative reviews are from about a year ago, so it’s possible there was something similar happening. Thanks!

    3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      It depends a lot on the details of the reviews and the overall tone. If it’s pay gripes and “upper management can’t find their butts with a detailed anatomical chart and a study guide” then I take it with a healthy swig of the Dead Sea for salt; at what job do people NOT think they should be getting more money and their bosses are morons? (Mine, actually; I’m very happy with my pay and have a lot of respect for my boss, but still.)

      If it’s specific things like “The current head of Llama Dentistry never keeps an EA longer than six months because he curses nonstop and expects them to work 12 hours a day,” I take with a bit more seriousness.

      Also, calmer comments are worth much more to me than angry comments.

    4. analytica*

      I’m sort of a sleuth but I advanced search on LinkedIn for people who used to work at the company and I cold message/call a whole bunch requesting their thoughts over coffee or a quick call. I am too paranoid about walking into another toxic environment to take the risk.

      I’ve written poor Glassdoor reviews and I don’t like being brushed off as another disgruntled employee. I’d rather talk to the source if I’m going to research.

    5. a-no*

      I always take it with a grain of salt and flag it as things to think about. I pay close attention to the positions of the people with complaints and the volume and wording on them – this applies to positive one too. You’ll gain a lot of knowledge just keeping these things in the back of your mind while interviewing and paying attention to how people behave in the office, the way they talk about management etc.
      I work for a company where we do restoration – which means we have teams of people who’s jobs are sometimes to literally shovel shit (sewer back ups can get real disgusting, real fast) and they have a lot worse things to say about the company (didn’t get paid enough, not enough benefits, too many hours etc etc) over the office staff reviews but it does change our rating on glassdoor as there are a lot more techs then office staff (with a really high turnover industry wide – not just us) so the majority of our reviews are negative.
      Pay attention if they are clustered on timing too as mentioned above, it could have been a layoff or some large event that triggered them.

    6. Anecdata*

      Do you have any connections with folks who have left? Can you ask them for an “off the record” frank conversation?

    7. paul*

      really depends tbh. There’s two companies I struck off after glassdoor reviews that trended way downward in the last six months sprinkled with two reviews that were 5 star and just read like marketing speak.
      But they both had a heavily negative set of glassdoor reviews from 2017 onward, that read like they were written by different people, and in both cases a lot of the reviews mentioned a management change (in one case a buyout).

  110. Lost Job*

    Hi everyone, I was let go from my job for the first time yesterday. This was only my second job out of college and they chose not to extend beyond the probation period. This was my fault, I was unhappy there and didn’t do much to try to hide that. They said I seemed unmotivated and disengaged (this was true) and they hadn’t had enough work for me during the three months, so I didn’t do much on a day-to-day basis and was frustrated by the lack of work. It was not a good fit, I knew that before accepting it but thought I could wait it out for at least a year until I figured out where I wanted to go from there (I was rejected from other jobs I was far more excited about). I’ve definitely learned my lesson about accepting jobs that you know aren’t a good fit beforehand.

    At this point, I’m looking for temp positions but I’m really trying to figure out where to go from here. I think I should avoid permanent positions until I have a better sense of what I want to do. My question is, how do I talk about this in an interview for new positions? It’s definitely a lesson I’ve learned – don’t accept a job where you know you won’t be entirely happy. I’m thinking of starting small and doing smaller, more unpaid work (in the field I’m interested in), and hopefully building up connections until I find something I’d like to do.

    I’m at a point in my life where I’m more open to those risks so I let things fall through the cracks more at this job than I ever would. I’m also in my mid-20’s and wanted travel before I settled down in a career so I wasn’t truly committed to the job on some level, knowing I would probably take a break from full-time work to do those things. I hid this all poorly. I feel bad the situation played out like it did. I’m trying to figure out where I’d like to go from here so I can avoid this situation again in the future.

    1. LostInTheStacks*

      I think if you apply for temp positions, or jobs that have a lot of turnover naturally, you can bring this up fairly matter-of-factly as long as you don’t emphasize it too much. In a contract job or something that’s designed to be temporary you can just say straight up that you’re hoping to build connections and get a better sense of the kinds of positions in the field, and in a high-turnover job maybe something like “I haven’t quite figured out my career path yet, but right now I’m especially drawn to X job for Y and Z reasons.”

  111. Overeducated needs a new name*

    I’m in my notice period, y’all! The minor tragedy of what is overall good news is that the standing desk I’ve been coveting for the last year and a half finally came this week, it IS amazing, and I’m going to have to say goodbye far too soon. Weep with me.

    Also, I’m not exactly happy to leave my current job, it’s just what I have to do because I’m on a contract that ends in a few months. Would it be weird to suggest a happy hour with coworkers my last Friday here? Or is that not a thing people leaving do? I like my coworkers a lot as humans, but we don’t hang out socially after work apart from holiday parties and other rare occasions.

    1. Curious Cat*

      I think a happy hour would be a great thing to suggest! My office does those, or a goes out for lunch, when someone leaves (there’s actually have a happy hour planned next week because someone is leaving).

    2. Reba*

      My spouse is going to a departing coworker’s last day happy hour today!

      Alas, fair standing desk! We knew good posture so briefly. Nothing gold can stay, etc.

    3. NeverGoingToFindAHome*

      Just wanted to chime in that my team is also having happy hour drinks next week for someone that is leaving :) so I think it’s a safe bet!

  112. Leslie Knope*

    I work for a small event-planning company (we have about a dozen employees). Our small company has an even smaller foundation which consists of one actual staff member. The executive director for my company is also the executive director of the foundation.
    Over the years, it has been expected that many of the employees in our event-planning company pitch in and help out with small events put on by the foundation. This isn’t really problematic for us, and the foundation events are pretty fun, simple and light-hearted. However, I feel like I personally am now being asked to devote a lot more time to our foundation than other employees. A lot of this is due to the nature of my work and job duties. I handle accounting for our company and am often asked to help with accounting for our foundation.
    Over the past year, my accounting role with our foundation has grown dramatically. I am now asked to do a lot more than what was originally agreed upon. My main issue is that our foundation doesn’t have an actual accountant, so I am asked to do a lot of things (helping with our taxes, reconciling on a monthly basis, for example) that I don’t even do for my company because my company has an accountant who does these things. It is becoming stressful and I don’t feel qualified or that I am being fairly compensated for all the extra effort I am putting into our foundation.
    I’ve shared my concerns with my boss but have gotten nowhere. I’m growing really resentful of my role with the foundation and am wondering a couple of things… first of all, is it common for larger companies to require their employees to do work for their nonprofits (without additional compensation)? Second of all, is there anything I can do to better advocate for myself aside from asking for a raise? Just hoping to get some outside perspective on my situation.

  113. Condescending Boss*

    This is a question for my older sister. She was recently promoted and moved to another department upon insistence of her manager. It is in IT, though she doesn’t do IT work, but just works in that department. She doesn’t have a degree in IT but her manager knows this and it is not necessary for the role. The head boss is new and really condescending to my sister. She’s one of the few women in the IT and is the only POC. He will make rude remarks to her during meetings in front of others, or say “X has a masters in IT, it’s too bad you don’t Sister.” (Even though she truly doesn’t need it for her role!) he is an older white man, who also makes comments about how he loves the church and is accepting of all, but will make racist comments to my sister. Like “is that dog you’re eating?” At lunch when she is heating up leftover. My sister doesn’t know how to best handle it because he is so far above her. Her manager recognizes the behavior is not kind (as she brought it up because she wondered if she was overreacting), but doesn’t want to step on toes either. My sister is so frustrated that she comes home crying and I don’t know what to tell her. Any advice?

    1. CatCat*

      How awful! Her manager is failing her here. Your sister can report the behavior to HR if her manager is refusing to do so. I’d focus on the racist remarks over those that are just rude remarks.

      Also, would your sister be comfortable practicing responding in the moment with you that would throw it back. Something like, “Why would you say that?” in a confused tone in response to these comments. It’s a reasonable question to ask in response to a weird remark and will put him on the spot to either stop saying shit like that or dig a hole for himself.

    2. Em from CT*

      Oh my god, that’s terrible. I’m so sorry she’s dealing with that. And for the record I don’t think she’s overreacting at all.

      I like Captain Awkward’s approach to this kind of rudeness, what she calls “return awkwardness to sender”—so your sister could say “Wow,” and let the silence sit, or “I have no idea what to say to that,” or similar things.

      This can be difficult because the guy is so much higher above her in the chain… it really would depend on how she thinks he would react in the moment. And how other people hearing it would react. If other people around when this happens also feel awkward and look shocked, she might get some backup from them if she says something.

      The other thing I can think of is take it to her manager more directly, not just to ask “am I overreacting?” but to say “I’m struggling with some of the comments GrandBoss is making, like XYZ. Do you have any advice for how I should handle this situation?”

      (I’m no HR expert, though, so YMMV!)

      And, again, ugh. So sorry.

    3. Thlayli*

      “Is that dog you’re eating” is a racist insult and she can go to HR with that. Tell her to document document document any comments that are racist or sexist, and report them to HR. This is absolutely illegal behaviour.

      Repeatedly pointing out that she doesn’t have education she doesn’t even need is not racism or sexism, so isnt illegal in the same way, but could amount to bullying depending on frequency etc. I don’t know if bullying is illegal in America though.

      If this guy is actually the head of the entire company then she may be better off just looking for a new job, but if he’s just a department head he is most likely breaking company policy as well as the law, so she should go to HR about it.

  114. Notasecurityguard*

    Do they just not teach people how to exert and project authority anymore?

    For context: I’m a school police officer and I constantly see teachers and administrators routinely fail to properly excercise authority with teenagers and then they (the adults) proceed to act like children which then escalates the situation. Then I come in, take the kid into the hallway or something and talk to them calmly for like 10 seconds and the kid ends up doing what I want.
    You’d think more people would do it my way because in addition to the moral imperative to treat people with respect, it also just works better to reinforce your authority if you don’t get into it with a 15 year old.

    (By the way we’re unarmed so the kids aren’t responding to that)

    1. asteramella*

      Depending on your location, teachers and administrators may get very little education and training on calmly interacting with kids who are acting out. In my state anyone with a bachelors degree can take an alternative certification course and be a fully certified teacher in a classroom within a year. It’s not necessarily generational; growing up in public school in this state, most of my teachers were reactive and many visibly struggled to remain calm when kids did normal acting-out behavior.

      1. Notasecurityguard*

        Makes me wonder if schools or whatnot should make and offer “dealing with difficult people” classes. Also wondering how I can put “dealt with unprofessional lunatics without smacking them” on a skills section on my resume and LinkedIn

    2. Delphine*

      If the know you’re a police officer, they’re probably responding to that. You don’t need to be armed for that title alone to carry a lot of respect and, often, fear for students.

      It could also be a case of that phenomenon where getting scolded by a stranger or a friend’s parent or a more distant relative is sometimes more effective than getting scolded by your parents. Kids know their teachers and administrators well, they know how to push their buttons and how far they can go. Most kids aren’t going to be that familiar with their school officer.

      1. Notasecurityguard*

        I actually don’t scold really. I’m dealing with high school kids and I tend to get a better (more compliant) reaction when I treat them like adults who lack knowledge rather than how I would treat children.

        The adults I feel like scolding though

    3. Peggy*

      I’m a teacher and a teacher trainer (who works with the type of program asteramella mentioned – placing people with a BA in a classroom) and we spend a lot of time deliberately teaching these techniques – it doesn’t come naturally to a lot of people. De-escalation is a key teaching skill! I’m naturally not a confrontational person, but I am stubborn, which means I don’t often raise my voice but I also don’t back down on getting students to comply once I’ve picked my battle. But when I trained to be a teacher-trainer (say that three times fast) the program did a lot of explicit training about de-escalation, which was helpful to me in recognizing what I’d been doing intuitively that worked and where I could fine-tune my technique.

      Notasecurityguard, our training used techniques in the book Teach Like A Champion. It might be worth mentioning to the school principal/whoever runs professional development for the teachers, because if you’re seeing that pattern, the staff might benefit from some explicit strategies and practice that would help them resolve situations without escalation. (My favorite behavior-management techniques in the book are What To Do, Strong Voice, Narrate the Positive, and 100%. Strong Voice especially is about projecting authority WITHOUT raising your voice/escalating, and because I work in a school where many of my students have experienced trauma/violence, it’s very important to me to maintain a calm, respectful atmosphere at all times, even/especially if I’m correcting a student’s behavior.)

      So I guess tl;dr – I didn’t get any training on that in my teacher training at a traditional school of education that is, in fact, very highly rated nationally; I lucked into it and then had it explicitly taught to me later. Just like with students, if you want somebody to do something a particular way, you have to show them how to do it and help them practice before they can do it on their own!

      1. Notasecurityguard*

        I would suggest it if it wasn’t the principal who was engaging in some of this behavior. Most recently after confiscating a kid’s phone they got into a yelling match and at one point got nose to nose with each other before I put my hands in the middle and said “both of you take 3 steps back right now”

        Not an effective way to project authority methinks

        1. Peggy*

          Yiiiiiiikes. Yeah, I’ve seen that too… luckily for me, that principal didn’t last long (I say lucky for me because if he hadn’t quit antagonizing the kids I would’ve eventually popped off myself… And, again, I’m not a confrontational person! I just get very “mama bear” about my students).

    4. Skipjack*

      It’s funny, I work in criminal justice and here’s it’s the complete opposite – people are just now learning to exert and project authority responsibly.

    5. SpaceNovice*

      Can you raise this with your boss on the police side of things? You’re seeing dangerously incorrect behavior from teachers that could get someone hurt. If it’s a problem in one school, it’s likely a problem in more schools. You probably will need to escalate this to someone who’s more senior, and your department might want to query other officers in other (high) schools to see if there’s a systematic problem.

      Peggy’s suggestions are a good starting point. Definitely read up on a bit so you can strongly articulate what you’re seeing. You’ve got a good eye for spotting behavioral patterns, but it helps to have the right words to describe what you have noticed instinctively.

  115. Stephern*

    I’m considering moving to an overnight position (think, 7pm – 7am three nights a week). I’ve never done anything like this before. Does anyone have any experience working this type of shift? Did you dis/like it or or did it affect you in any particular way?

    Thank you!

    1. Susan K*

      Is this a permanent nightshift job, where you’ll always be working those hours (7pm-7am)? I’ve never worked night shift for the longterm (normally, I work rotating shifts — alternating one week of dayshift and one week of night shift), but during our busy period, I work two or three straight months of night shift.

      I actually kind of like night shift, because it is a better working environment at my job. There are fewer people around to interrupt my work, fewer meetings, fewer phone calls to answer, and overall, it’s just easier to get things done. I’ve always been more of a night owl, so I don’t have any problems staying awake all night, but some people do, so you should definitely consider whether you’ll be up for that.

      In my experience, people with kids have more difficulty on night shift because they need to sleep when the kids are awake, so they run into problems with the kids keeping them up, and/or feeling guilty about not spending enough time with the kids. I’ve also found that a lot of people have difficulty understanding that when you work all night, you have to sleep during the day. They think that since you’re home all day, you’re available to run errands or meet for lunch or watch the kids, etc. I don’t have that issue very much, though, because I live alone and don’t have many obligations outside of work.

      When I work night shift for several consecutive weeks, I prefer to continue the same sleep schedule on my days off (i.e., sleep during the day and stay up all night). This is another thing that can be difficult if you have a lot of family obligations or other obligations outside of work. If you do have other obligations, you will probably find yourself wanting to stay up during the day and sleep at night on your days off. This makes it a lot more difficult for your body to adjust to the night shift schedule.

    2. LCL*

      Night shifts are the hardest on the body, but we have people who have worked night 12s for years and love it. The biggest effect is to your social life. You are going to have to make the extra effort to tell your friends ‘no, that night won’t work for me because I am working, but I am free the following nights.’

      You will have to be extremely protective of your sleep time. For most night people, they make appointments in the early morning. A few prefer to make them in the late afternoon. Be prepared to push back against people who want you to schedule appoints in the middle of your prime sleep time, like noon. Ask them if they would like to schedule their appointments at 3AM.

      One issue that comes up for some people is the issue of the pushy family. Apparently some extended families have a culture of asking/demanding whichever relative isn’t working that day to do things for them. If you have this kind of family, and have a hard time saying no, prepare for misery.

      For me personally, 12s wrecked me and I can’t do them no matter what the hours are. But I loved afternoon/swing shift which most of our group despised. If you need to sleep for 9 hours a night 12s aren’t a good fit.

  116. Katriona*

    How do you bounce back after a week where you feel like you can’t do anything right?

    I’ve been making a bunch of little mistakes at work–nothing major, but it seems like the more I screw up the more anxious I get and the more anxious I get the more I screw up. I’m already sort of starting to climb out of it (I meant to post this last week but missed the open thread), but I know I can’t be the only one to get caught in this cycle so I’m wondering how others have handled it. How do you A) stop making mistakes and B) repair your reputation?

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      Ah, the Death Spiral. This has definitely happened to me. Try to take the weekend off completely from work, like don’t even think about it, and get a fresh start on Monday. Then, the little things that you do right will slowly add up and the feeling of constantly messing up will go away. If this feeling lasts for a long time, though, I’d maybe see somebody about it?

      Don’t worry about your reputation! One week of little mistakes (that almost certainly you are worrying about more than your boss/coworkers) won’t make a dent in an otherwise good reputation.

  117. Employee complications*

    We are migrating to a new system that my department uses intensely. There was a meeting where the process was going to to be discussed and some workflows looked at so I told my staff about the meeting and told them they were supposed to attend. None of them wanted to go but I told them they had to. The day of one of the staff who was there said he was not feeling well and did not want to be in a group. Now this staff has been sick on and off lately because of some new medication. But he also really dislikes being in groups (doesn’t attend even things that don’t involve work like a retirement party, which of course is ok). I insisted but he kept saying he was not feeling well and would not have come in if he wasn’t already at work. After a bit of back and forth, I said ok (I mean, I’m not going to physically force anyone). But I am at a loss as to what to do. On the one hand I feel disrespected, because I so explicitly said it was mandatory (there are very few events like this). On the other hand perhaps he was really feeling unwell – should I have sent him home? Or was it just convenient as a way to get around the disliking being in groups? the person is usually trustworthy. I also feel bad because the other people who also didn’t really want to go went but this one person “got away with it”, so what happens next time?

    2. SpaceNovice*

      Why didn’t the direct reports want to go to the meeting? Are they being kept out of the loop with developing the process? Are their legitimate concerns being ignored? Do they think the training is useless? Or is everything straightforward and they don’t think they need to be involved?

      You might be right but should give him a benefit of the doubt. If it becomes a pattern of him avoiding important meetings, maybe talk with him then. But it’s natural to feel a bit disrespected, if it makes you feel any better. He’s usually trustworthy, so no need to revoke trust immediately.

      +1 to Ramona Flowers’s question, too.

  118. paralegal eagle*

    Hi everyone! First time commenter, long time reader.
    I just found out I’m going to be training a new-hire on Monday… does anyone have any advice? I’m new to the professional field and would love some tips or guidance that could be helpful so I could be more effective in my training of a new coworker!

    2. MissCPA*

      I find it best to explain to them why we are doing things. They probably won’t remember everything the first go around, but I think when they hear it or see it a second or third time it might help them connect the dots better. I like to make a point to say “feel free to take notes” because often I find trainees feel uncomfortable slowing you down by doing so, but I’d prefer they take notes than continually ask me the same thing. We are a national firm, so I did ask around for any training materials from other offices and then made my own edits. I asked for feedback a couple months afterwards which helped me tweak my training for the next round of new hires. I have also learned to help develop their problem solving and critical thinking skills by provoking them to find answers themselves (i.e. did you do a quick google search, what have you looked up so far, have you looked in the guide books yet, etc), but still guiding them to those answers. This helps them transition away from depending on you for help forever. Good luck!

    3. Kathenus*

      I’m a big fan of creating training checklists, that both the trainer and trainee check off on. You can start one with things you know you need to train her, and have it be a living document to add to as new things come up during the training that you hadn’t thought to include. They can be a great help to guide and document training and empower both the trainer and trainee to keep training progressing.

    4. nep*

      My best trainers at work explained (always putting tasks in the context of big picture), demonstrated, then watched me do. So to the extent it’s applicable, I’d certainly allow for that — once the trainee seems to have a good grasp on something, let her/him perform the task while you monitor and answer any questions.
      Strongly agree with the suggestions of check lists and note-taking.

  119. Simon*

    I suffer from anxiety. I am in therapy and on medication and I do the best I can to mitigate the effect it has on my job. I just wanted to post in case the OP who wrote in about their anxiety causing a problem at work (a colleague didn’t say goodbye and she opened the colleagues pay stub and went to where they lived) is reading. You are not alone. I think about you often and hope you are doing okay and will update us soon.

    1. Marie B.*

      +1. We are all rooting for you OP. I wish you all the best and hope you send in am update when you can.

  120. Anonish*

    I requested and got a transfer to another team within my department, which is exciting, in line with my career development, and involves a lot of opportunities to learn new things. It also has the major benefit of getting me away from my Horrible Mansplaining Coworker who I cannot stand to work with for one more second.

    However, I could have done without my boss saying, “Yeah, this’ll be good for both of you since you won’t be driving each other crazy anymore.” The implication being that both sides are equally to blame when my coworker is the one who sucks!

    Tips for suppressing this kind of useless indignation? I’m going to be on the new team in two weeks so just keeping my head down until then is my plan.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      Ugh, that’s frustrating. I would have had a hard time stopping myself from saying something like “Yeah, as long as you don’t ever hire any more women, you’ll be fine!” Ugggggh. (I have a coworker like that myself, so I sympathize.)

      Yep, you’re on your way out the door! Two weeks and you’ll never have to think about it again. Good luck!

  121. many bells down*

    How do you list a contract position on your resume when the actual time you spend at work is sporadic? I’m working as an instructor for a private tutoring center. My contract is for one year, but my actual time spent teaching is only over school breaks. So I have a one-week camp from, say, February 1-5, and another one from April 7-12, and then a summer camp.

    Do I list this as a one-year position, or do I list each individual teaching session separately? I’ve never done contract work before so I don’t know what the protocol is.

    1. Reba*

      Hm, I think I’d list the year/contract term, then clarify below that it’s teaching during school breaks.

  122. Anxa*

    So, yesterday I had an interview for a second part-time job. A recruitment team was in state from across the country and interviewed me based on a reference. The night before I clicked on the apply button to look more into the application (to get a feel for any potential deal breakers or interview questions in a ‘supplemental questions area’). The application wouldn’t let me proceed to the next screens without filling out all the required fields, so I stopped.

    But apparently I applied by clicking “next.”

    So, I had a pretty good interview and now my application is garbage. Ugh……

    2. KayEss*

      I had something similar happen recently… filled out 3/4 of an application, then got to a screen that wanted me to detail my full salary history at all previous jobs, which is way too much work for a position I wasn’t crazy about. Apparently the application went through even though I closed the browser, because they called me in for an interview.

  123. NewCulture*

    I can’t implement much of the great advice I see on this site for one main reason: How can I “immediately address” certain critical issues tactfully, with limited privacy in an open environment?

    Details: I work at a somewhat cramped, nonprofit, public desk. We are always a bit on top of eachother. The public desk seats 3, with my office and a modest workroom directly attached. That is our workspace. Staff of 8, including me.

    Recently I’ve had an issue with an employee being passive aggressive, challenging me on decisions, and generally being disrespectful; but these are more extreme examples. There are also other less severe times when I feel it would be best to address something right away.

    So here is my problem: I desperately want to avoid embarrassing or shaming my employees in public. So I simply cannot get past the hurdle of initiating a private conversation with them because of our “communal” office space. There is just no way that I can see, to avoid the “GO TO THE PRINCIPAL’S OFFICE” feel about saying “can I speak with you in my office?” in an environment like this. I so often fail to initiate necessary conversations, not because I dread the conversation itself (although I do), but because I can’t stand the idea that I might embarrass them in front of coworkers and the public.

    I’m a pretty new manager so I have not really internalized certain scripts yet. I should say that I was brought in partly because some serious culture change is needed and my experience and views are in line with this. I’m making some difficult decisions with employees who have been here for 3 and 4 decades (yes, you read that correctly), so learning to manage this is really important.

    1. Arielle*

      I think you have to institute a practice of having regular 1-1 meetings with your employees privately in your office, so there’s no connotation of being in trouble when someone goes off to have a private conversation with the boss. How do you do confidential meetings now? I would think there would be more times than just disciplining people where you’d want to be able to talk to them privately.

        1. NewCulture*

          This is a HUGE goal for this year for this reason. However, at this time, we haven’t ever done this, and I have mountains of infrastructure that have been neglected for a decade. I can only feasibly manage about 1 a month right now for employees, which isn’t often enough. Hmm. Maybe I need to take another look and see if I can possibly do this more often…

          But even if I get it up to once a week, is that enough to address something on Friday, that happened on Monday?

        2. NewCulture*

          BTW I found that article a few months ago and have re-read it several times since then. It’s wonderful advice, and is largely what led me to decide to institute 1-on-1s. I guess I’d like a better idea of what is appropriate to let sit until I can get to a 1-on-1, vs what is severe enough for me to bit the bullet and ask them to come talk to me in the moment.

          Hopefully time will give me some seasoning.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      This reminds me of this one school I worked at that had all-school assemblies. At the end, one of the deans would announce “I need to see so-and-so after this meeting… you’re not trouble,” which always made me cringe, because I thought “You’re trying to make them feel better, but all that will do is make it really bad when you don’t tack on that end phrase.”

      So fully agree with Arielle. Just make it so that one-on-one meetings are regular and can run the full gamut. Sometimes disciplinary. Sometimes complimentary. Sometimes innocuous in other ways. Could be anything.

    3. Thlayli*

      It’s totally normal to ask someone to come into your office!

      You can also send an email invite to a meeting with the location being your office.

      1. NewCulture*

        It’s totally normal, but, well, today for example, I have two employees who don’t get along very well, and I’m trying to address the behaviors that contribute to that. Once of them has not been following the scheduling changes I’ve made. The other knows this, and so when the employee showed up at the wrong time, the other winced, and yelled at her that she was here at the wrong time as soon as she set foot into the work room. If I said, “Can I talk to you in my office?” Right after that… it’s obvious.

        Also, our work takes us out onto the floor quite often, we aren’t tied to a work station all day. Sending an email invite is an interesting idea, but it isn’t something I can count on them getting right away or at a reliable time.

        Thanks for the comments, you may be right, perhaps I need to relax at least a little about asking people into my office.

        1. Thlayli*

          I honestly don’t get why this is bothering you. Can you not just say “John can I see you for a moment” what’s the big deal.

          1. Tea and Sympathy*

            I agree. I manage a team in open plan, and I have no problem wandering over to someone’s desk there with a cheerful, “you got 5 minutes for a quick chat?” – take them into the office, shut the door behind them, voila. I think you’re overthinking it. good luck! x

  124. Lalaith*

    Is it career suicide if I take a lower-level (and lower-paying) position because I need to make ends meet? (BTW, this is in a tech field.) I’ve been out of work for six months and my unemployment has run out. I’ve been on the verge of getting retail work to keep afloat, knowing that a few months of unrelated work probably won’t make a difference in my career arc. But I have the opportunity to re-apply for a job that rejected me a few months ago… only this time they told me the salary and it’s below what I was making at my last job, and probably just enough to keep life going but not put away significant savings, or, say, have a child. Unlike a retail job, I wouldn’t want to quit a job like this for at least a year. It also has a lower-level title than my last job, and wouldn’t do much to bolster my skills, which is why it’s been so hard to find a new job in the first place. Is it going to hurt me professionally if I get/take this job?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      It may hurt you professionally, but I wouldn’t say it’s career suicide. I won’t say it works out for everyone this way, but I went from an assistant director position to being a receptionist, and then eventually becoming a director, and then eventually “downgrading” again to something else entirely.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I’m in the same boat – unemployment runs out next month and I haven’t had even an initial phone screen since before the holidays. I’m willing to take a pay cut to stay in my field, but I have senior-level experience and I’m not willing to go down one or two levels in title.

      That said, I’m seriously considering leaving the field and trying for lower level positions in adjacent fields (where I have less direct experience), where I think the skills I could learn in those jobs would help me down the line.

      I think if you can use the job to get additional skills, either through the work itself or training opportunities through the company, it’d be worth it. If the job really is just a watered down version of your previous job without those opportunities, it might not be worth it unless your job market is limited.

    3. Thlayli*

      Take it, continue your job search, and leave it off the resume if you think it looks worse than having nothing.

  125. Dr. Doll*

    I am dreading a meeting coming up in 30 minutes. It’s with someone who is so negative that I have literally never heard them say a positive or happy thing in ten years of knowing them. An hour meeting can stretch to two hours because of the complaining — which is why I’m now sitting in the meetings. My team members don’t feel comfortable shutting it down, but I can. Not fun, though.

    Screwing my courage to the sticking point here….

    1. Almost Violet Miller*

      Good luck with the meeting! It’s an incredibly usefull skill to be able to shut down complainers and steer the meeting back to the original topics. You are doing everyone a favour, even if it feels unpleasant to do it. Hopefully some of them will learn from you. Can you maybe bring this up and ask why they feel uncomfortable stopping the complaining?

      1. Dr. Doll*

        Staff vs faculty, young vs old, humanities vs science, shame culture vs guilt culture… and a few other such structures. It’s not their fault.

    2. Dr. Doll*

      Well, although I don’t know if it was entirely due to my being there, I’m pretty sure the ballast helped: the meeting was *entirely positive*. *No complaining.* A good time had by all. I had to step out to another responsibility, and when I asked the team members if it continued positive after I left, they said it did.

      Whew. Guess I’ll be sitting in from now on.

  126. Bad Candidate*

    I’m wondering if I’m completely off base here. A couple of weeks ago I had a second interview that I thought went really well. Really, really well. I’ve never before had an interview where I left thinking “Yep, I’m totally getting an offer.” But this one I did. They said I’d hear by the end of the week or early the following week. On the Friday after I got an email from the HR person (internal, not a recruiter or headhunter) asking me how I felt it went. I said I thought it went well, that it would be a great fit, and that I was very excited about it. I also asked how the team felt it went. She responded and said she got “very good feedback” (her words). OK Awesome I’m thinking, that’s a good sign, right? If they weren’t super interested she wouldn’t send that, would she? Well long story short, I didn’t get it. The HR person sent me an email saying they decided to go with an internal candidate, but the job was reposted on a local job board and is still open on their company website.

    I know Alison has said that you don’t have a job offer until you have a job offer, but WTF? Am I totally wrong here thinking that this was odd? Why give a candidate hope like that and then yank the rug out from under them?

    1. fposte*

      I think what she did was weird. I don’t get asking a candidate how they thought it went–what are they going to do with that information?

      That she said she got “very good feedback” is, IMHO, meaningless; that could just be job-ese for “enjoyed meeting you,” and it doesn’t say anything about “feedback that makes you the strongest candidate.” But I don’t know why she opened the can of worms in the first place.

    2. SallytooShort*

      Honestly, they probably always had a preference for the internal person. That really sucks. I’m sorry. But I’m sure your take of the interview is correct and they loved you. It’s just hard to beat out someone on the inside.

      Sometimes companies just let job postings expire on their own on their site. Or they may be waiting for final acceptance.

    3. Overeducated needs a new name*

      This happened to me recently – had an interview I thought was great, got really positive feedback, still lost to an internal candidate. You never know, maybe they were saying “man, if we had a second opening….” or “if Wakeen weren’t already here….” They could have liked you and wanted to hire you but decided the known strengths were ultimately the deciding factor. I’m sorry!

  127. Goldfinch*

    We are being threatened with our annual away day at work.

    Does anyone have any suggestions? We are an office of about 35. We cannot do anything with alcohol (at least until later!) no escape rooms, nothing overly sporty.

    If it’s relevant, we work in Higher Ed in the UK.

    1. soupmonger*

      Birds of prey handling? Tree planting? How about organising a group help for any homeless folk, by chatting to them, bringing them coffee, etc?

    2. Grandma Mazur*

      Can you volunteer to help a charity with something? There are some organisations that list opportunities for groups and individuals (eg, in Wiltshire, Involve Swindon sends out a monthly email). I know people from my local uni did a beach clear-up for theirs and said it was great.

      Not sure whether breadmaking or other cookery course might be problematic if people have dietary restrictions…

      At my office, we hire an outside company to run it, they ask what our objectives are and then they plan the activities.

      Can you do a crazy golf, or a potluck and board games (eg, Taboo or Articulate) or is it supposed to be more ‘professional’ activities?

      35 is quite a large number if you’re trying to find something that everyone will enjoy so be prepared for that and maybe don’t have too high expectations?

      Could you book an expert to do, say, a local history walk or a nature and foraging walk?

      The best away days I’ve been on (admittedly with smaller teams) have been a mix of fun activities and work objectives (eg, visiting a city farm, then having lunch, then working on long-term team strategy in the afternoon).

  128. Daphne*

    After a couple of attempts to apply for a position at a nearby firm that my current boss used to head, I am convinced that he has made a “gentleman’s agreement” with the other firm that he won’t recruit their employees, and he won’t recruit theirs. My last application was for a position that my experience and skills matched EXACTLY. They held me in the consideration pool for three months, then sent me a form ding letter; the position is still open weeks later.

    I thought this kind of thing was illegal? Does anyone know what I can do about it? This is a small town and there really aren’t many options for pursuing my career elsewhere that wouldn’t involve a 90-minute commute.

    1. Mediamaven*

      I would highly doubt this is illegal. As long as they aren’t discriminating against you they don’t have to hire you. I have friends who own companies similar to mine and we know not to poach each other’s people.

      2. Cristina in England*

        But isn’t poaching when you proactively try to recruit employees away from somewhere? This is more like blacklisting.

  129. Hannah*

    I’m feeling really demoralized this week. A bunch of people got promoted. I wasn’t one of them.

    The thing that really burns is that my office just gives promotions to the people who have been here the longest, regardless of how hard they work or how good they are at their jobs. One person in particular I know is a complete moron and lazybones. He does terrible work and he has a terrible attitude about even being asked to try.

    I’ve worked my butt off over the past year trying to stand out and show I could perform at a higher level. When I see crappy people like him get promoted instead of me, it makes me feel like I shouldn’t even try. Why bother? I should just do the bare minimum and wait until it is my “turn.” Why do I stay an extra hour at the office trying to make something just right when I could just turn it in filled with mistakes and there would be no consequences?

    It just makes me so angry because I’m not the kind of person who would just half-ass my job in any circumstance, and I so much resent the people who just give it 50% and get the same (or better!) rewards. I’m trying to find a new job but positions that use my exact skill set are sort of hard to find, and if I took a position less specific, I’d have to take a pay cut.

    1. Reba*

      At least you know that it’s not you, it’s them. Focus on that, try not to let this experience make you too cynical. Good luck with your search!

    2. MissCPA*

      ohhhhhhhh how I’ve been going through something similar. What helped me the most was to let go of how I feel about those people and just focus on myself and my job search. I found a perfect fit elsewhere within a year of searching, because I wanted to make sure it was a good switch, and they are really hurting now that I’m leaving. Just try to focus on yourself and put the poor performers out of your mind. It is very hard to do, but eventually you’ll get there and hopefully find somewhere else in the meantime!

  130. Almost Violet Miller*

    I’m frustrated because of a cover letter I promised to help with.
    A friend of mine asked if I could translate her bf’s cover letter to French. He is applying to a large international org with HQs in France. I have had experience with such application systems where they required certain documents in French as well even when the position didn’t require any French knowledge so it seemed ok to help with this.
    She was pushy about it (eg. no deadline but asap, it looks easy so I’m sure it will go fast – thanks for setting priorities for me, really) so I set a reasonable-looking timeline.
    However, after reading the whole letter (a good A4 page), I realized he is saying he speaks some French but doesn’t mention the letter was written with some help (it’s not a very complicated letter grammatically but has some special vocabulary related to a niche field). Also, it’s a really weak cover letter. I don’t know if it’s supposed to reflect his imagined level of French or he just has no idea what a CL is supposed to be.
    Now I am asking her if it will be submitted as his work which wouldn’t be cool (I’m happy to correct a French letter and even explain pourquoi I made these changes).
    No question here, just needed a place to write this out.

    1. Fabulous*

      Maybe add a disclaimer line (i.e. “**This letter was transcribed with the assistance of a French Translator.”) to the bottom of the letter. If he really knows French then he can delete the line if he chooses, otherwise it’ll at least be in the letter for the org to know.

    2. Anony*

      Tell her that you are uncomfortable translating the letter because it could in effect misrepresent his ability to read and write in French. If the letter has to be in French and he cannot write it, he is most likely a poor fit for the position. If the ability to read and write in French is not required, then he can submit it in English.

  131. manager seeking advice*

    I have a question about workplace norms/etiquette. I’m a Canadian currently working in America. I’m openly gay and people I work with have met my husband at the company Christmas party.

    Is it a normal practice for people to send an email to all their co-workers or clients or vendors when they come out? I never did anything like that (although I came out in high school and I lived in Canada then) and I’ve never seen it happen before. The person who sent the email works on another team in the same division as the team I manage. I was away when the email was sent. When I got back she came to my office and gave me the heads up she had spoken to her manager about people who didn’t respond to her email and the matter was referred to HR. One of my people and someone in another department were spoken to for not relaying their congratulations to her.

    I’m upset that one of my people was reprimanded without my knowledge or me being in the know and having to find out after the fact but that’s another issue. My main issue is how strange I find this. Is it a normal thing in America to come out to the people you work with through email and to have congratulate people when they do? I want to advocate for my employee but I don’t want to seem out of touch. My employee says she doesn’t have a problem with gay people and she has never been unkind to me and was very warm whenever she has met my husband. The issue is she didn’t say congratulations. I figured since most of the commenters are American I’ll ask here.

    1. Natalie*

      Woah, no, nothing about this sounds normal.

      I’ve never heard of anyone sending a coming out email to all of their staff and definitely not to clients or vendors, other than trans people that are changing their name and/or pronouns. (And even that is less about coming out and more about communicating new the name/pronoun info.) I suppose it’s not unheard of, but it’s certainly not some kind of norm.

      But even the email was totally routine, keeping a tally of who didn’t respond to you so HR can speak to them is… bananas. The content of the email doesn’t matter. I have never responded to all staff announcement emails and I never will, and as far as I know it has literally never been an issue anywhere.

    2. Temperance*

      Many of my friends are LGB, and I’ve honestly never heard of this. It is absolutely not normal in the US. Most people I’ve met don’t really “come out” so much as just mention their partner or spouse/introduce their partner or spouse, like you did. It’s so attention-seeking and weird to send a mass email and then punishing people … at least at work? I have a friend who came out during a TV interview and then asked us to watch, but he’s our friend and asked his friends to watch. He definitely didn’t post a bulletin at work and then harangue everyone who didn’t respond correctly.

      I’m actually kind of horrified that someone was reprimanded for not congratulating someone for coming out. That’s so strange.

    3. Bad Candidate*

      Uh, no. That’s weird. If I got that email I’d think to myself “OK Good for you.” Delete. I’m not sure how your sexual orientation relates to your ability to do your job.

      1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

        OMG, exactly. I mean, if you were getting married or something, yeah, maybe an email to your team or close coworkers, but this is really not something that warrants an all-staff email.

    5. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Super weird IMO. I probably wouldn’t have replied at all to a similar email, and I’m LGBT too.

    6. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Yeah, no, coming out is not done that way.

      In fact, “coming out” as a singular momentous event is really dying down, which I think is all for the best. I learn a coworker is married when they mention their spouse in conversation, and that’s pretty much how being gay should be, too — equally a non-issue.

      What happened at your job was incredibly bizarre in every way. Please don’t take it as a norm!

    7. k.k*

      That’s super bizarre. I’ve lived and worked in the US my entire life and never heard of anything like this. We don’t get company wide emails about people’s personal life (let alone to outside vendors and clients?!). Only professional things like promotions or leaving. If I got that email I’d think, “Okay cool for you” and back to work. But it would literally not cross my mind to respond. People being reprimanded? So bonkers. Does that stand for your vendors and clients? Will you be finding a new water cooler supplier if they don’t give a hearty enough response?

    9. Hannah*

      No, that is extremely bizarre. My workplace has a number of LGBT people, (like, maybe 10%) including myself, and no one has ever done this. Neither the original letter (weird but…um, ok maybe you really wanted people to know?) or the requirement that you congratulate her?!

      WTF? Being gay is not an accomplishment!

    10. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Um… WTF

      First, the whole concept of “coming out” is ridiculous and we as a society need to stop assuming that heterosexual is the default and making a big deal out of it when people are LGBT.

      Second, I would push back really hard on my employees being reprimanded for not responding to that email. If someone sent out an email announcing they had a baby or got married or something, would people be reprimanded for not responding?

      Third, what exactly was this person trying to accomplish? Sending an email in the first place is weird. Keeping track of who did or didn’t reply to it is even weirder. And then *talking to a manager* about the people who didn’t respond is just… I am completely flummoxed.

    11. LAI*

      What? No, this sounds crazy. I live in an extremely gay-friendly part of the US, have worked with many LGBTQ people and none of them have ever had a formal “coming out”. They just refer to their wife, or drop into conversation how they saw a movie with their girlfriend, or whatever. Also, why would the correct response be “congratulations”? Should I announce to all of my coworkers that I’m heterosexual and expect congratulations from them? All of this is really weird. If you have the standing to push back and support your employee (the one who didn’t respond), please do.

    12. Chell*

      No, this is not typical thing us American Gays do. That is so weird I cannot even imagine what is going through this person’s mind. The fact your employee was reprimanded for not congratulating her (especially in response to what sounds like a mass email? It doesn’t sound like she reached out personally.) is messed up.

      You should absolutely push back on this nonsense

    13. SallytooShort*

      While I haven’t ever heard of and certainly would never do the email thing but I would just shrug it off as a “whatever.” The talking to HR and the reprimand for not saying congratulations is completely unacceptable.

      1. SallytooShort*

        And, for context, I am a lesbian and “out” at work in the sense that I don’t hide it but no formal officewide declaration.

    14. Anecdata*

      What?! No, that’s…odd. There’s really no need for your coworkers to know what kind of people you’re attracted to (and we’ve had questions here about how/if coming out at the workplace is “a thing”; and iirc the consensus was that there’s no need for an announcement (and that would be a bit odd), but many people simply don’t/stop censoring their other comments. (Example: What did you do this weekend, Jane? Oh, my girlfriend and I went camping. What about you?)

      And – jumping to the conclusion that, because someone /didn’t/ reply congratulations, they’re bigoted, also seems…odd.

    15. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      That is not normal at all. Most workplaces I’ve been in, no one sends announcements of a personal nature for any reason, except maybe a new baby or wedding announcement to a select group of people. Never to the entire company, let alone vendors and clients.

      Like others have said, the weirdest part is not the email itself, it’s that HR reprimanded people who did not respond. Were any clients or vendors reprimanded if they didn’t respond? This situation is very strange and I think you are right to be upset.

    16. Thlayli*

      What the hell? She sent round an email telling people she was a lesbian and reported everyone who didn’t say congratulations? What the hell?

      Is congratulations even an appropriate response? “I’m gay.” “Congratulations.” What? How does that even make sense? What’s to congratulate? Being gay isn’t an achievement! It’s something you’re born with!

      I have never said congratulations to anyone on being gay straight or any other orientation, and I never will. The last person who came out to me I just laughed and told him I figured that out when he was 16.

      To be honest I didn’t even know “coming out” was a thing anymore. If it comes up in conversation people might mention their partner is a man/woman but having an actual “coming out?” That’s so last century!

      She’s a complete weirdo. Definitely advocate for your employee.

      Disclaimer: I’m not American but I am friends with a LGBTQ couple who are American, and I’ve worked with plenty of Americans and in American companies – so if this was common I probably would have seen it on an email before.

    17. Close Bracket*

      > The issue is she didn’t say congratulations.

      For being gay? O.o I wonder if I can go to HR about people who don’t congratulate me for being autistic.

    18. Chaordic One*

      Obviously this was a big deal for the person coming out and she was probably anxious about the reaction she would get, but disciplining the people who didn’t respond to her email is over the top and an extreme overreaction by your HR department.

    19. mandassassin*

      I am both gay and American – I wouldn’t have responded to this email! I probably would have thought, “How nice for you?” and deleted it. Such a weird proclamation, plus going after people who failed to make her feel good enough about her life? This is bizarre, and so out of professional norms. Please push back on this for your employee. Unless HR also reprimands everyone who doesn’t congratulate anyone who makes an announcement about their life – which would still be super weird – this shouldn’t be any different.

  132. Jane Don't*

    Can my coworkers and I ask our manager to layoff our narcissistic controlling supervisor instead of us? Employees were just informed this week about impending layoffs and the odds are looking good for our small department in particular. We’re a group or artists and writers, and as you all know, art programs are always the first to be cut. My immediate coworkers and I have suffered the past 6 years with a nightmarish supervisor who constantly berates and belittles not only us, but any company employee the view as being below their paygrade. This may seem like our only opportunity to present a united front and ask our manager whether our supervisor’s position is also being considered for the chopping block. Each of us has made more than one visit to HR to discuss our concerns about the behavior of our supervisor over the years. Some of us have even spoken with our department’s manager on more than one occasion. Nothing has ever come of it however because the company culture seems to care more about protecting management than the employees who are actually responsible for getting the job done and making sure everything runs smoothly day-to-day. I like and respect my manager but my supervisor has made it a constant daily struggle to find the motivation to keep showing up for work. My coworkers and I have been actively searching for other jobs for the past few years with no such luck. We are in a very specialized competitive field with very little opportunities. I’m worried I won’t be able to work in this field any longer if I’m laid off. So, would it be completely untoward for my coworkers and I to present a united front against our supervisor and ask our manager (our supervisor’s boss) to consider eliminating that position rather than ours? Or rather, if that position is even being considered for elimination at all?

  133. Half-Caf Latte*

    Work phones!

    What do you do? At OldJob, you could get a work phone issued, or you could BYOD and get a fixed subsidy. I chose BYOD, because I had a recently renewed contract and a number I’d had since childhood. I needed to be on night/weekend call, so one device was easier. Most people there took the issued phone and used it for work/personal.

    New place offers BYOD, but no $, and you’re required to put a remote wipe/access control app on the device, and it restricts lots of stuff. Since I’m no longer taking call, 2 phones made more sense.

    So: 1 phone or 2? Any formal or informal restrictions on use?

    1. Oxford Coma*

      Most of the people I work with who have the option to get a work phone just forward their personal number to the work number. That prevents having to carry two objects, but also prevents you from turning over personal data to the company.

    2. animaniactoo*

      They moment they want to be able to remote wipe my phone and otherwise restrict my use of it is the moment I accept their company issued one.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Exjob just provided work phones to people who would need them. I don’t think they allowed BYOD. Frankly, I would never do that, because they could wipe the device at any time.

    4. nonymous*

      My husband and I keep two devices. If you’re not salaried, it’s nice to be able to leave the work device in the briefcase when not on duty. I’m quite fond of the apps on my personal phone, so I wouldn’t pick the forwarding option.

  134. Happy Goose*

    What is the most gracious way to cancel an on-site interview with little notice? I have had a really successful job search in a tricky field (academic librarianship) and had two interviews at fancy schools last month and three scheduled for March. I just got a call from one of the schools (my top choice) saying I was their finalist and that they would get me an official offer by the end of next week. Unfortunately, I have an interview scheduled across the country Monday after next! If I hear back and accept the offer, I would have to cancel that on-site interview with 1-2 days notice. I don’t want to make enemies but I also don’t have a way to speed up the offer! What’s the nicest way to say “Sorry but I won’t be there on Monday?”

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      It’s really okay to say you would like to let them know you’ve accepted another job so won’t be able do attend but thanks etc etc.

      You’re being courteous and it’s fine, honestly!

    2. Anecdata*

      You’re handling this perfectly professionally! Just say, “I’ve accepted another offer so I’m withdrawing – thanks for your time and best of luck with the position”.

      Would it be nice for them if the timing was different? Sure, but it isn’t, and this is a normal and reasonable part of doing business. Reasonable people will not hold it against you. (And they definitely prefer hearing your withdrawing; than spending time interviewing you when you know you won’t accept).

    3. AnotherJill*

      I’ve been on hiring committees and had people cancel the night before due to accepting another position. I never gave it another thought. Maybe to think “Yay!” :)

  135. Jane*

    My boss is currently in the hospital for a minor, but completely unexpected surgery. What should I do for him? We get on well but are not close whatsoever. We sometimes go weeks without taking to each other (he’s really hands off and my role is pretty independent). We have worked together for seven years and I don’t think he could tell you anything personal about me. So I guess I’m just struggling with how to reach out without crossing a boundary and being too personal.

    1. Gilmore67*

      I think a get well card would be nice. Nothing serious and nothing like you’d get a good buddy.

      I can’t imagine anyone taking that any other way other than a friendly ” wish you well” act of kindness.

    2. Inspector Spacetime*

      If he was going to be in the hospital for a while, I ‘d send a card. If he’s back soon, I’d probably just say something like “Glad you’re back,” when he comes in. I don’t think there’s any reason to do something big if it’s a minor surgery, especially because you’re not close.

  136. Lady Boss*

    I know it never lasts, but my team is finally fully staffed!!!!!!!!!

    I’ve been at my new company for about 6 months. Before I started, my position had been open for almost a year and there were multiple openings on my team. The new staffers are awesome and now we’re able to start really catching up on the millions of late projects and can finally start to plan ahead. THANK GOODNESS!

  137. Ri*

    First time posting! My question is: how do you let employers know you need a visa? I’m American, studying in the UK, and looking for my first proper job after graduation this summer…So I need a job with a certain salary minimum, and an employer willing to go through some bureaucratic faff to grant my visa. Should I address this in my cover letters, or would that seem presumptuous? I don’t want to waste anyone’s time, but equally I don’t want to dissuade anyone from hiring me I even get a chance.I

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      I’m also American and studying in the UK. I’d go to your student center/international student center/whatever they call it where you are and ask them. Maybe also your career center, although my experience with the one here has been that they haven’t really been equipped to answer any questions that are remotely out of the ordinary (which my questions have been, although I don’t think they’ve ben *too* esoteric).

      I’ve also heard of people putting their citizenship/visa status on their resumes.

      1. Ri*

        Oh cool, I didn’t think there’d be many of us on here! My career centre hasn’t been especially confidence-inspiring so far, unfortunately- like you say, I think anything beyond the very basic is too complex for them. The resume idea is great! That seems subtler than writing it out in a letter.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      A lot of online application systems, at least in the US, ask if you need or may possibly need sponsorship in the future. I don’t know if it’s the same in the UK though.

      1. Ri*

        So, that’s sort of what’s led me to ask! I applied for a job where I answered ‘yes’ to needing a visa in the application, got an interview (where I discussed America repeatedly), I heard back a while later, it seemed like an offer was imminent…and then I was abruptly told the company didn’t provide visas. The grad rec manager seemed shocked to hear that I needed one, as well. Obviously that’s just one disorganised organisation, but it was a frustrating waste of my and their time that I want to avoid in the future!

        1. Madeline*

          The Home Office in the UK provides a list of companies that does sponsorship (Tier 2), probably check with that list before you apply so this doesn’t happen in the future?

          1. Ri*

            What makes it weirder is that the company is on that list and has a sponsorship licence, so it seems more like they just don’t want to go through the hassle of sponsoring the visa.

    3. LAI*

      I am in the US, but I have seen resumes from people that include a brief line saying “authorized to work in the US” or something like that. It flags to us that they are not a US citizen but that they have some kind of visa or permit allowing employment.

    4. Iris Carpenter*

      It will be best to put your immigration status/need for a work visa & sponsorship clearly on your CV. That way you can filter out employers who will not be bothered to sponsor you. Because of the possible fines, employers are wary of employing anyone with no right to work here.

      Frankly, you have a difficult task ahead of you: The salary minimum (typically £30K) is normally higher than the typical graduate starting salary, and I think you face further hurdles after 3 or 5 years when you need to apply for leave to remain. Employers should be aware of this, and this may make them more reluctant. I’d recommend trying large international companies that will have the necessary HR machinery in place.

      1. Ri*

        Thank you, I think that’s the path I will take. Luckily, as long as I find a job before the end of August, I’ll be switching from a student visa, which means the salary minimum will only be £20,800 and no need for a resident labour test. That’s why I’m very dedicated to getting an offer in before the criteria get much harsher!

  138. Liane*

    1. Jobs at Big Grocery Chain are going well for the (grown) kids. Daughter is supposed to start training for the service desk soon. It has been pushed back a couple times, since one of the only other checkers who knows how to run self checkouts was just fired for theft and so they need to get someone else trained on that.
    2. Son is very likely to be promoted into 1 of 2 open Lead positions at BGC! Even though they know he will be going back to college either this summer or fall (but would probably keep working).
    Clearly these 2 have been doing something right, even though I don’t think they’ve taken up my suggestion to come here. LOL
    3. This week I decided to email 2 library hiring managers who considered me for their page positions to let them know I had been hired at Our Branch. HM1 had brought me in for an interview and HM2 had encouraged me to keep applying when he let me know he had filled his temp positions. Both emailed back with congratulations. HM1 added “I think Hypatia and Eve [my new boss and grandboss] made a wise choice.” I told Eve and she said, “Yes, HM1 is a good friend of mine and she told me you’d emailed her. I agree with her.”

  139. BeezLouise*

    I’m in my notice period at my terrible toxic job. I had my annual review yesterday, and from my point of view there were things in there that are completely unfair. I’m being blamed, for instance, for an event that my boss claims didn’t go well — we had delegated it to someone else on the team because we suspected I would be on maternity leave when it happened, and indeed I was already out of leave when it happened. The person who was supposed to run it dropped the ball completely, so I tried to salvage what I could, but I have no idea how it actually went. My coworkers said my boss is way overreacting, and that they thought it went fine, but I have no way of knowing, because I wasn’t there.

    My new job is at the same institution, for a department loosely affiliated with my current job (we do the same kind of work, but for different branches), and this annual review will have implications for my merit raise.

    Do I push back? Do I just accept this as one more petty thing and be grateful I’m leaving?

    1. Temperance*

      If you’re staying at the same org, I think you really do need to push back on this. It clearly wasn’t your fault, you weren’t even there, so even if it was a total shitshow, it should be on that colleague’s review, not yours.

      1. BeezLouise*

        Yeahhh. The colleague is a close friend of my boss, so she is managed outside our department (it’s a mess). My boss already submitted glowing comments to her about her performance last year. I literally cannot wait to leave, but I agree, I should push back.

    2. SallytooShort*

      Is there any real downside to pushing back at this point? You may be in the same overall company still but you aren’t working for this person anymore. And as long as you keep it professional and calm it can’t be held against you. Even if the review isn’t changed it would be helpful to have a record of a challenge of some sort (if that’s possible.)

      1. BeezLouise*

        That’s what I’m thinking too. I was trying to brainstorm a way to bring it up without me being the petty one to my new boss. She WILL see it when they assign merit raises in July, but at that point I’ll have been able to prove myself, hopefully.

        Today is literally my last day and I am counting down the minutes.

  140. Anon Accountant*

    My company literally can’t get anyone to hire. In December there was a great candidate who called 2 days before he was scheduled to start and he’d found another job. They’ve been advertising since October and can’t get anyone qualified to apply.

    Word has gotten out about how they treat people and how toxic it is.

    1. Anon Accountant*

      And I stayed up until 2:00AM last night applying to jobs and got up at 6:30. Had a large cup of coffee this morning that’s keeping me going, lol.

    2. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Sounds like my company. Add that to the fact that the unemployment rate is really low, and it makes it near to impossible to find anyone who is willing to come work for us. I’m well-aware of how awful we are, but unfortunately the person most able to make changes is completely disinterested in it (because none of it is his fault, EVEN THO IT’S HIS EFFING COMPANY). It’s so hard when I’m interviewing someone not to tell them to run far far away as fast as they can.

      1. Short & Dumpy*

        This reminds me of when I was on a hiring panel at a very, very dysfunctional office. There were 5 or 6 of us on the panel. A candidate asked us what the turnover was like and why did the last person leave (smart candidate!)…there was probably a full minute of total silence where the entire panel stared at each other and then someone finally mumbled that we didn’t really have a number for turnover (it was probably close to 30-40% most years) and the last person had decided to retire early to travel. Smart Candidate withdrew their application that week.

      2. Anon Accountant*

        Completely understand. It’s hard to not say “do you know what you’re getting yourself into”?

  141. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

    Not sure if this or the other open post is the right place for this, but Alison, I’ve noted that comments with any kind of insulting term tend to go right to moderation, and I just want to say how much I appreciate that!

  142. AnonAndOn*

    Weekly unemployment check-in thread. How are things going for you?

    My updates: still searching. I applied to a job at an acquaintance’s company and have a phone screen for it in a few days. A lot of my utilities and services are being cut due to non-payment (I have very little money for anything anymore), so I hope I still have phone service.

  143. Peggy*

    Research help, please!

    I am writing a novel and one of the characters is a woman in her early 30s with a PhD in bioengineering (I am an English major who teaches high school, so this is why I need some help with research!). She has recently been headhunted out of academia into a tech start-up. The big boss (male) recruited her based on her academic research (a paper she wrote or presentation she gave at a conference?) and she’s now joining the (mostly-male) workforce as a project manager (with direct reports who don’t know her or her work).

    I would love to hear about real-life experiences coming out of academia into a for-profit company, especially a tech company, especially if you’re female and most of your team is male; and if you are a tech person and you have any pet peeves about how books/TV misrepresent you/your work, I would love to hear about that too!

    I’m in a female-dominated profession but my cowriter is a woman and a doctor, so she has some ideas about this section of the book, but I would love to have more stories to draw on and I know I can always count on the AAM commetariat to have good workplace stories. ;)

    1. Epiee*

      I am a PhD candidate in epidemiology.

      This has been on my mind recently because I saw an egregious example of it in a video game, but multiple PhDs are generally not a thing unless someone really changed fields or sometimes when people move internationally and want to work in a related (generally not identical) field in their new country. Don’t give characters multiple PhDs (or for the most part, multiple masters degrees either) as an indication that they are very smart or highly accomplished. If at least one of the degrees is a professional degree, e.g. MD PhD, then this is normal.

      If you want the tech company CEO to have seen your character present at a conference, it needs to be a huge, industry spanning flagship conference within that field. Look up the Radiological Society of North America conference or the American Public Health Association conference for examples of what I am talking about. Everyone from doctors to researchers to hospital staff to vendors will be at a conference like RSNA. They have both an academic “present your research” component and more commercial and networking components. Your tech company founder probably didn’t go to more of an academic conference and sit in on a talk.

      There are also some programs and languages that are used both in academia and in tech, and local interest groups based around those tools will attract both academics (especially if they are thinking of getting out/working on a plan B) and people in private industry. Tools your bioengineer *might* know, depending what she does, and talk to a non-academic group about, include Python, R, or MATLAB. Try going on Meetup and looking through tech groups. You should be able to tell which ones are popular and see from people’s taglines whether there are some academics (even just grad students) in there or if everyone seems to be in industry. My city has an R user group, “R Ladies”, “PyLadies”, several data science interest groups, and groups for people doing any project using the city’s open data. Many of these are chapters of bigger organizations that could operate in your character’s city. Your character could also have presented a how-to paper for something like a SAS User Group conference, which could be attended and read later by anyone who uses that software.

      If your character got as far as trying to patent anything, that would also be a good reason for industry contacts to recruit her.

      I hope this helps!

    2. Thlayli*

      I am a woman with a PhD in engineering which i got when I was 27 and work as a project manager! I am looking forward to reading your book.

      It would make sense that the boss or a subordinate noticed the title of her paper at a conference, went to the talk, then read the paper and then searched for more online and found all her published work which impressed him enough to head hunt her. Hiring someone on the basis of one single paper is less realistic, and it’s not very likely he would have been reading all the academic journals because there’s so many papers that aren’t relevant and industry people don’t have the time. Conferences are where academia crosses over with industry, at least in engineering, so it makes more sense for the conference to be the initial point of contact/notice.

      It would also make sense for him to ask questions after her conference presentation about her paper, during the Q&A time slot, and for them to have a chat at the conference lunch or coffee break, including him asking when she was due to graduate, before he goes off to research the rest of her work.

      Alternatively it would make sense that he sent someone subordinate to him to the conference to learn and report back, and that person sent him on the paper and noted she seemed worth contacting/ looking into her publications.

      Obviously it’s annoying when an author gets the science wrong, but it’s pretty common. Just try to be accurate and maybe ask someone who works in biomedical to check/proofread.

      Working in a male-dominated industry is fine for me. I’ve always got on better with guys than girls anyway. No real stories of anything gender related during work. I’ve experienced very very little discrimination and id say it’s about 50/50 positive and negative: lots of companies are keen to hire and promote women in tech but there is also some negative discrimination. If you do good work you’ll generally get ahead regardless. At least in my industry and location (EU).

      I’ve had four male colleagues / bosses try it on when drunk at social gatherings after work. All married and just drunken idiots. I went tae kwon do on three of them. one tried to wrap his arms around me at the Christmas party and I did a double forearm block followed by a double knife hand strike to the neck (not full force obviosly I didn’t want to seriously hurt him!). He didn’t know what happened and I don’t think anyone else even noticed I did it so fast and I didnt knock him down or anything. Two grabbed/slapped my ass at nights out which weren’t work nights out – we were out as friends. Both of them I gave one warning that I would punch them if they did that again and both immediately did it a second time (I think they thought I was joking) so I punched them in the face. Again not full force as I didn’t want to break any bones, just let them know not to mess with me. One of those was my boss haha. Both apologised immediately and we all stayed buddies. The fourth, my grandboss, professed his undying love for me when we were staying at a hotel on a work trip and I gave him long guilt trip talk about his sick wife and child and not long after that I convinced him to transfer me to a different location closer to home. Feel free to use any of those stories in your book.

      Another funny story was a woman I worked with who was senior to me due to her experience but was always a little jealous of me because I had a PhD. She decided she was going to get a masters in the specific area we worked in (which is what my PhD was in). She really didn’t need one as her expertise was well established from her experience but she had a real chip on her shoulder about my PhD (even though she earned more than me and rightly so coz her experience was worth more than my PhD). She told me in front of our boss that she was really enjoying it and I should consider doing the masters course also. I said “why would I do a masters in that topic I already have a PhD in it?” My boss who sat beside us looked worried – and I knew what he was thinking so I left it at that. After she went away I remarked to him “probably shouldn’t mention to her that they asked me to teach part of that masters course huh?” He looked relieved and said “thank you I was worried you were going to tell her! She’s already defensive enough about your PhD”. It was funny. I got on really well with all of them and hung out with all of them outside work.

      Hope some of this is of use!

      1. Peggy Larkin*

        Thank you – this is super helpful! Her work isn’t the focus of the plot but I want to know enough about how it should work that I don’t do anything that makes real scientists throw the book across the room, lol.

        The tae kwon do stories actually line up pretty closely with how she’s already characterized in the book (her dad worked for the FBI and is super paranoid, so she’s been doing martial arts since she was tiny and defaults to that when startled, haha). She’s also like you in that she tends to get along better with men than women.

        And the tips about the conference stuff are also extremely helpful! Thank you again!

  144. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    Does anyone have advice for helping a grown up figure out what they want to do when they grow up?

    I have a career that I love, but I hate watching my fiance struggle in jobs he doesn’t care about and are well below his abilities. He graduated at the height of the recession (with a degree in political science, right when his state government was shutting down completely) so his career never really got off the ground. He’s done everything from firefighter training to bartending to working in an office print room, so has a lot of different skills (almost all of them entry-level). My job requires a lot of travel so we’ve discussed him becoming primary parent when we start a family, but (a) that’s several years away, and (b) I don’t want him to feel he was forced into a caretaking role, either by me or by a lack of options.

    He’s had lots of different ideas on what he might want to do – go to grad school to get an MPA, start his own company, go to law school, etc. Does anyone have a suggestion on figuring out a career path, and is there anything I can do as his partner, to help?
    Thanks!

    1. Beth Anne*

      I’ve heard that book finding your parachute can help. I struggle as well. It’s not that we don’t know what we want to do it’s finding jobs that are available and pay a living wage and we enjoy.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Thanks for the advice, I’ll check that out! I agree, he has general ideas of things he’d like to do – work in state government, start a small food business, become a lawyer for the ACLU – it’s the “getting there” that’s the problem. I also think he’s just been demoralized from coming of age into a terrible economy, plus he doesn’t derive his identity and fulfillment from career the way that I do. If he has a job that pays most of the bills and still allows him to spend time on his passions outside of work, he gets too comfortable to find something that would make him happier.

        1. Anony*

          My fiancé is the same way. He doesn’t love what he does but the idea of going back to school, potentially taking on debt and then having a starting salary that is the same as what he makes now (but has more room for growth) is demoralizing for him. I figure the best thing I can do is try to succeed at my career so that he will feel financially secure enough to quit his job and pursue something he will enjoy more long term.

          1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

            That’s kind of where I’ve landed too. My dream would be to land a good enough job that I can be the primary, if not sole, earner and he can work on his passion project and be primary caretaker when that time comes. I honestly feel he’d be happier with that kind of life, but (as Peggy says down thread) it’s hard to overcome that social conditioning that people, especially men, must have professional success!

      2. Peggy*

        Yeah my husband is in a somewhat similar position – degrees in English, Journalism, and Communications (triple major!) who tried and hated office work and slid sideways into a job where he handmakes wooden jewelry, video-game themed cutting boards and coasters, and other custom work (which is super cool! But he gets frustrated about not having a “real” job–his words, never mine!–and he’s self-employed with variable income. He’s currently our primary childcare, and he’s awesome at it, but it’s hard work and he fights feeling isolated/unproductive. I know it’s tough and I wouldn’t be cut out for it. A friend recently recommended “What Color is your Parachute?” as a resource while we long-term plan for what he’ll do when the kids are in school–back to full time woodworking? Retrain in tech or industrial design? Etc. The book has lots of helpful exercises to pinpoint what elements of a career will be fulfilling.

        All that said, there’s also nothing wrong with working enough the pay the bills but not pursuing “success” – but it’s hard to believe that against the grain of social conditioning!

        1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

          You’re so right – even when you’re aware of it, social conditioning is HARD to overcome! I like to think that we are a very progressive couple – evenly split housework, I am on a more intense career track, he’s naturally more inclined toward primary childcare than I am – but there are still times when I fear he’ll resent me for making him stay home, or he is embarrassed to meet new people (or even visit family) because they always ask what he’s doing for work.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        I’ve thought about that, but everyone I’ve known who’s been to a career counselor (including comments on this site) have had pretty negative experiences. I think the problem is that he gets comfortable easily – if his job pays most of the bills and he has time to do things he likes outside of work, it’s hard for him to get motivated to look for something better. Which, I’m totally fine with – I’d be perfectly happy for him to be a stay at home dad! – but I’m afraid he’d become dissatisfied or grow to resent me…. sorry for the word vomit, this is well beyond the scope of your question :) I guess what I meant to say is that I’m not sure a career counselor would be helpful because he’s already identified a few things he thinks he might like to do, but doesn’t know how to get there.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      What helped me was thinking about what tasks you like to do. Not the big picture ideas about sectors and job titles and the actual mundane reality of what you would be doing all day.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        This is really helpful, thank you! I think he tends to get bogged down in big picture thinking, then discouraged if he can’t come up with an exact job title that he’d want to do. I’ll encourage him to start from the other end and think about what he’d be happy doing day to day!

    4. Kix*

      What are his skill sets? For example, if he’s interested in government contracts or
      procurement (particularly at the federal level), he can start at entry level, learn his
      trade, and move up the ladder pretty quickly. The feds ALWAYS have contracts
      writer/type gigs open.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Thank you so much for this suggestion. I don’t think he’d categorize writing as one of his strengths, but he’s GREAT with people and can have a conversation with anyone and make them feel welcome. Right now he’s a manager at a bar and he really likes a lot of aspects of the work – he likes customers (for the most part), he likes managing staff, and he’s great at coaching the young servers. I think he gets caught up on the idea of service work being “less than” office work, which I don’t agree with. The biggest problem with his job is that we work opposite schedules, but if he can find similar work that means we’re home at the same time more often, that would be just about perfect.

    5. Bea*

      You are doing the right thing by being supportive and that’s the best advice I can ever give you. He doesn’t necessarily need you to help him find his calling or his passion, as long as he’s not stuck in jobs that are upsetting him, sometimes people are just in constant “floater” position for jobs, they don’t need a career that’s absolutely fulfilling. Especially since you mention that he’s happy as long as the bills are paid and he can do what he wants on his free time, he doesn’t seem lost just that you think because you love your job that he needs that same level of excitement and fulfillment.

      My dad was a full time laborer his entire life and he liked his job, it gave him money and he could live his life never thinking about work outside of the walls that surrounded him those 40 hours a week. Yet I grew up to find a career path that I’m passionate about and talk about all the time, so people are in awe of my outlook on my profession while they’re just going through the grind and cashing in those paychecks so that they can retire one day.

      Just be there for him. Continue to support him finding a passion but don’t feel the need to force him into one either. Don’t worry so much about him resenting you, that’s probably not going to happen, however he may end up feeling uncomfortable if he just doesn’t feel like he cares about finding a job to love like you love yours…if that makes sense.

      My partner is one who works whatever job pays the bills and spends his free time on his passion for writing, he also does freelancing and such whenever possible. Yes, he tries to find jobs in writing and has had them in the past but they have killed him just as much as jobs in retail or service, so honestly you just need to let him know you support him in every way possible emotionally and don’t force him in any direction that he feels he should be going into because he certainly doesn’t want to disappoint you.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        This is a really helpful perspective, thank you so much. I think I get caught up in my own head worrying about him because I’m a natural worrier, which drives him crazy :) He’s a manager at a bar right now, which he likes in a lot of ways and is very good at. I think he doesn’t want to feel like his work is “less than” office work (not something I feel, but I think he gets the feeling his dad is disappointed). I honestly don’t think he’ll ever feel passionate about any job; he gets fulfillment from family, friends, and his hobbies. I’m sure I could be better at making sure he knows I support him no matter what he does for work. Thank you so much!

    6. Thlayli*

      There are loads of websites where you can answer questions about your preferences and skills and it will give you a list of jobs you might like. I’ve done a few out of interest and I’d say about 75% of the Jobs I think I actually would enjoy. So that might be a good start for ideas. Then look into them one by one to figure out what he would have to do to get into that as a career, and then decide from there.

    7. Windchime*

      My son graduated with a poly sci degree when the economy was struggling, too. He tried several things, and for awhile he was making excellent money as a poker dealer in a small casino. The place eventually closed down. Then he tried insurance sales (what a fiasco), and finally went to work for the State in a job for that paid peanuts. He worked in that for several years and thought about becoming a firefighter, but those jobs are super competitive. He is now a police officer and loves it. It helps that he works in a relatively safe suburb in a department with a good reputation and decent funding.

  145. Beth Anne*

    So everyone at work as employee numbers we use to clock in and out of….yesterday the person that has the number right after me typoed and clocked me out…it was an easy fix but so weird…I’ve worked here 2 years and that’s never happened to me!

  146. Just Sad*

    How do you handle job hunting depression? After two years of nothing I thought I was getting somewhere with an employer that seemed like a great fit. That rejection really knocked me on my ass, and into a bigger, stronger funk than I was already in. I attend conferences, I network, I make use of the career centers at conferences and they tell me my resume is solid and that I’m putting the right stuff in the cover letter. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the world so I”m not limiting my job hunt… There are gaps in my experience but my salary at my current job is so low I work several other jobs at any given time, and have a long commute from needing to live some place with an affordable cost of living so if I’m not working or driving, I’m applying to jobs. I just don’t know what to do anymore. I’m starting to think I need to leave the librarian field altogether, but that thought hurts when I think about the debt I have specifically from getting my MLIS.

    1. Wendy Darling*

      My mantra during my year of unsuccessful job searching was “All it takes to not get a job is that ONE PERSON looked like they were a better fit than you.”

      Also… I made time to sulk. I mostly had super good Job Search Hustle but any day I had an interview (phone or in-person) and any day I got rejected from a job I had at least phone interviewed for, all other job search activities were suspended for 24 hours so I could do whatever the heck I felt like. I would order takeout (this was legit built into my budget) and watch Netflix and feel sorry for myself as necessary. I was allowed to wallow and complain. The trick was that after 24 hours I had to be finished.

      Job searching was still a bummer but it kept me from imploding.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I do this too–if I get a rejection, it’s F*CK ALL THAT for the rest of the day. Oddly, I don’t do it when I get a book rejection, though. Maybe because I expect those, haha.

  147. Flowers r cool*

    I finally heard back from the business I interviewed with! I was getting radio silence for so long I thought they had gone with a different candidate. They are just taking longer than they expected to make a final decision. I’ll know if I get the position or not next week. Proof that patience (and making polite inquiries into where they are in the hiring process) is a virtue!

    1. Mbarr*

      Congrats! I applied to an internal job that I’m a shoe-in for, but haven’t heard a thing. I know 3 people on the team have vouched for me… I’m choosing to believe that the manager is just taking their sweet time…

  148. Angry HR*

    Any other HR people out here?

    I need to vent. I am sick of the HR Business Partner model that’s become so beloved at large companies these days, particular amongst HR execs with little to no HR experience. Heresy, I know, but I hate the model and feel it weakens the pipeline of incoming professionals. All the work of leading an HR team, but usually without any title differentiation for your efforts. End rant.

    1. periwinkle*

      It’s not just the HRBP who gets hosed in that model. I’m in the HRD group, and we’ve always had our own BPs who worked directly with their internal customers. The BP knows the customer’s needs, plans, history, goals, etc, and is usually integral to creating the strategy for developing the employees in that group.

      Now we’re shifting to the HRBP model, with the HRBP being the catch-all contact responsible for figuring out what the customer needs and which groups need to be called in for support. Meanwhile, this disconnects our BPs’ direct relationship with the customers (at least if you go strictly by the model’s workflow).

      But no worries. If your company is like mine, it will do this for a couple years and then the expensive consultants will swoop in with a shiny new model to follow.

  149. Wendy Darling*

    Can everyone PULEAAAAAAAAAASE stop being so fixated on why I left my job before last?

    I was laid off by Giant Multinational Corporation You Have Heard Of. No, they do not do that very often. No, that does not mean I am lying and was fired. Yes, I am eligible for rehire. Yes, they tried to find me another job internally but it did not work because the entire problem was that my job moved to Other City where all that kind of job lives. Yes, they offered to move me to Other City. No, I did not accept that offer. What do you mean WHY, can YOU think of a few reasons someone might not want to move out of state to live in one of the most expensive cities on earth???

    The funny thing is Giant Multinational Corporation You Have Heard Of 1. has a reputation for super high turnover and 2. just laid a ton of people off. So the skepticism that someone would leave of their own accord after two years is completely bonkers. But I swear to god 50% of job interviews involve an interrogation session on why I left that job. Not why I left grad school, not why I left my last job (I quit without another job because it sucked THAT MUCH), but why I left the one job I was laid off from.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  150. The Original Flavored K*

    My Small New Mexico Community Hospital is truly an efficiently administrated, well-run place, staffed by people more organized than I am.

    /s.

    Let’s see, in the six months I’ve been here: my hiring manager fired the day I signed my HR paperwork with no plan for continuity, CEO fighting in the newspaper with a state rep, transphobic language in patient medical record, transphobic remarks by my supervisor to me, negotiating a switch to PRN with my supervisor and then later having to defend the “mornings only” schedule SHE AGREED TO, yesterday they tried to make an offer for my replacement (and discovered that they shouldn’t have even INTERVIEWED the person they wanted to hire, because she went completely cocobananas when she was laid off last year, including such greatest hits as “Screaming Profanities At the HR Department” and “Throwing Her Badge at the HR Director’s Head”)…

    …And, as of this morning, my access to the webclock function has been terminated. Wrongfully, apparently, but I am technically working today for free. (They are at least fixing it, but it won’t be fixed until Monday, and I’ll have to re-enter my time for today.)

  151. anonami*

    Why does it seem like being “Fully Staffed” means having the absolute bare minimum number of people necessary to do the job under perfect conditions (i.e. No one is sick, no one has vacation, no one gets pulled onto another project, etc.)?

    1. Babayaga*

      It’s the worst outcome of the recession, if you ask me. And it feels like it’s become the default practice.

  152. Yorkshire Rose*

    Have you ever made it to the final round of interviews, got rejected and told you were basically a great candidate but the one they hired had specific experience in X, and then got a call a few months later asking you to apply to the job again? If so, what did you do?

      1. Yorkshire Rose*

        Would you ask how serious they are about your candidacy the second time? I would be wary of another long drawn out process, only to get rejected again.

        1. CatCat*

          I don’t think I would ask “how serious” since it would be weird for them to reach out to you on a lark and asking “how serious” kind of implies that. But you could ask about the process. “Can you give me information on what the interview process would look like if I were to apply again? Would the entire process need to be conducted again, or would there be different process in light of the fact that I [did X, Y, and Z] in the process previously?”

          You can decide whether it’s worth applying from there. If you aren’t down for a repeat of an entire process, you could bow out when you know that.

        2. Ainomiaka*

          I wouldn’t because you can’t ask someone to commit to hiring you before going through their process and it sounds like that’s your goal. I’d they went through an elaborate hiring process with you before they WERE serious. You just weren’t the final choice. That sucks bit it happens.

        3. Anony*

          Definitely ask about the interview process. If it has been less than a year and it is the same position, I would probably balk at redoing the whole process. Honestly, I would ask if they still have my application on file to avoid the paperwork and just send in an updated resume and cover letter.

  153. Overworked and Underpaid*

    I have a pretty good relationship with my boss/supervisor. We work in a very small non-profit and I am the only person he supervises (think he is the director of llama wrangling and I am the llama wrangling coordinator). We are able to talk openly about our families, personal life and just random things. He has also said that we have a very good working relationship.

    He is not very organized but is very good at his job. However, my issue is that whenever we meet (which is 1-3 times a day), he consistently gets distracted by his email or phone. He loses his train of thought on almost every single statement he is about to make and I’m stuck sitting there staring at him while he continues to say “ummm” and type his email. He always apologizes but it makes our meetings 10x longer and thus my day less productive because I’m waiting for a thought instead of doing my work.

    Here is what I’ve tried:
    1. Reminding him of what we talked about, or attempting to finish his sentences for him and I usually miss the mark on what he’s trying to say.
    2. Ask him if he wants me to come back later to talk when he’s forgotten something completely and he says no that he will remember it soon
    3. Joking with him about his behavior. For example, he says, “I really can’t talk and read my email at the same time. I need to stop.” in which I responded, “If I had a dollar for every time you said that…” and we laugh but nothing changed.

    How do I approach this politely?

    1. Anony*

      You could tell him the impact it is having on your work with concrete examples (does it force you to stay late, miss deadlines, drop side projects?). Then ask if he can send you an agenda ahead of time for your meetings. If it is written down you will either be able to prompt him or he will remember himself. Alternatively, you can modify your second option above. If you are in a meeting and he forgot what he wanted to talk about, instead of simply asking if he wants you to come back later, as if you CAN come back later. Possibly add in a concrete reason. For example: “I need to complete X today and our meeting seems to be running a little over. Can I come back at 4 to continue this?” Rephrase it as a request instead of a question.

  154. Pharmgirl88*

    What would be good wording to nudge a reference (via text message) to respond to an employer?

    For context – one reference is my current direct manager, the other 2 are former colleagues who had the same title as my manager and some supervisory role over me.

    I reached out 3 weeks ago to all via text asking if they’d be a reference for a specific job I’d applied to. At my first interview 2 weeks ago, the employer mentioned that the next steps would be reference checking and a 2nd interview. At my second interview yesterday, she mentioned that she had not heard back from my references.

    My direct manager happened to mention yesterday that she had received the email and would be returned the form later that night, and when I reached out to the HR rep she mentioned that she had heard back from one of my other references.

    Would it be too soon to reach out to the third to check in? I was thinking something like this – “Hi Sansa! Hope all is well. I just wanted to let you know that I had my second interview at King’s Landing Pharmacy. They mentioned that they hadn’t heard back from my references. Have they reached out to you yet?”

  155. a-no*

    So recently I got ‘promoted’ and I’d commented previously and got some great advice on asking about a pay raise. What I was told was that there was no room for raises and it’s ‘not a promotion’ and all the other fun drink-the-kool-aid excuses.
    That being said, I’m not having much luck looking for another job but the pay I get here is unsustainable. By time I’ve paid my bills and fed myself there’s usually only about $10 left for the month. I’ve debated asking for more hours as my work, but there isn’t even enough work for me at the moment to fill a few days.
    Anyone (I am in Alberta, Canada) know of any non-physical part time positions job boards/key words to find some or know where are actual remote work job boards? All I find are scam ones or ones that require you to pay to access (also scam) and I’d really appreciate if anyone can point me in the right direction here as it sucks working full time hours and being so broke all the time.

    1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I’ve used flexjobs.com. It’s a pay site, but the jobs are all vetted, and I was able to find my current side gig that way. Not sure about their offerings outside the States tho.

  156. Sled dog mama*

    Boy it’s been a week (both professionally and personally). My workplace received a threat from a patient’s mother, she said if thing wasn’t sorted out (we could lose our license if we did what she was asking us to do for her adult child) our clinic would be “going down on Friday” then she ended up bringing son into the ER and making threats there, this was on Wednesday and everyone has been on edge since then. At the same time ( literally I was on phone with my mom and next door biss was on phone with the police) I found out my 90 year old grandfather was back in the hospital after flu with digoxin toxicity.
    I’ve got an appointment to see someone through my EAP on Monday but what other coping techniques can others recommend for when everything gets a little overwhelming?

    1. animaniactoo*

      Take a moment and think about how you would handle it if the worst happened. Complete plans. Complete reasonably possible worst scenarios.

      In the kinds of situations you’re talking about, it often helps to know that you *can* survive them and that quiets a lot of the voice at the back of your head going “omg omg omg”.

      And then – give yourself a break. What are you just not up to right now that it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if you skipped it? What can you do that would make you feel good? A particular dish? Hanging out with particular friends? Staying home and vegging on the couch playing games or watching a movie? Tackling cleaning the bathroom so that it stops being on the top of your damn mind that it hasn’t been done? Hiring someone else to tackle the damn bathroom? Walk through it out and find something that you can “give yourself”.

  157. Kaittastic*

    I think I’m a little late but I’ll ask anyways. I need help decompressing after a stressful day at work. I work evenings and am in a management position. I’m having issues with insubordination and HR won’t allow me or my boss to discipline anyone. We were told just to talk to them. Well a worker went off on me about something very silly and it escalated to the point I had no other option than to send her home. I got home around midnight (normal time) and was still steaming from the interaction that I couldn’t fall asleep until almost 5am. I had to cancel a doctors appointment because I couldn’t function on a couple hours of sleep. So any advice on how to wind down after a stressful work day?

    1. MissCPA*

      that must be very frustrating to not be able to follow through on discipline. Some thoughts about decompressing: can you read a chapter of a book to relax, make a cup of sleepytime tea, watch an episode of a show you like, listen to a podcast that gets you excited, try meditating in bed? I have recently discovered podcasts (better late than never), and use crime stories which I only listen to at the gym to keep me enthusiastic about working out. Just a few suggestions here! I wish you luck, it is hard when you can’t will yourself to fall asleep.

    2. Mbarr*

      I hate that. :( :( :(

      The last time I was super made after work, I ended up listening to part of Neil Patrick Harris’ autobiography as an audiobook. It was so ridiculous and lighthearted that it turned my mood around in 20 minutes. Maybe try his, and other comedic audiobooks? (My public library lets us borrow them for free.)

      I also like hanging out with friends – a quick venting session with a sympathetic ear really helps. But with you not getting home till midnight, that could be a problem.

      From a more scientific perspective, maybe work your rage off with some exercise? Find a 24-hour gym, or stream some workout videos on your TV.

      1. Thlayli*

        Seconding comedy. Laughter is a great destressor.

        Other options that may be of Use (ignore any that don’t suit your lifestyle) physical workout, sexual activity (alone or with a partner), drink, smoke a joint, call a friend and moan about the day, meditate, pray, do something that calms you (hanging and folding laundry really works for me!), draw a picture of the person who annoyed you being eaten by a horrible monster or make up a story about them being killed in a comedically gruesome way.

  158. Wombat*

    Wondering if folks here can offer some advice. I work two part-time jobs and am going to grad school during evenings/nights. One of my jobs is an office job in my field, and I do that one in the mornings and always leave halfway through the workday.

    I’ve been feeling left out a lot recently since we have a *very* small team (think less than 5 people) and everyone else is full-time/salaried. I often hear my coworkers mention things offhand that were clearly discussed when I wasn’t there, or refer to some kind of joke that I wasn’t there for, and sometimes when we have staff visiting who don’t normally work in our office they’ll order food for everyone on the company card and I won’t be there – I end up feeling kind of pitiful eating their leftovers the next day if there are any, lol. I can’t adjust my schedule because of my three commitments – this is just the way it works best is for me to go into the office in the mornings. It probably doesn’t help that I’m in an admin role, so I’m definitely the lowest on the totem pole and don’t always feel that my work is as important as others’ who get to travel to conferences, have important meetings, etc.

    Any advice regarding being part-time and feeling more integrated into a full-time team? I know a lot of these things are just the nature of my arrangement and isn’t anything my coworkers are doing on purpose, so I don’t really know how to do anything about the situation. (Or any other advice regarding juggling part-time jobs and grad school would be welcome, haha.)

  159. Free Meerkats*

    Having to take an online FEMA ICS course. It requires Flash (red flag), seems poorly coded (opens new browser windows for no good reason, and is going to eat 6 hours of my life.

    Have thoughts and prayers for me.

    1. anon24*

      Oh I’m sorry. I had to take FEMA 100, 200, 700, and 800, all about ICS and NIMS. They were the most boring painful modules ever and I don’t think I retained a thing from them.

      1. Free Meerkats*

        I have to take 100 and 700. Later, depending on if I get promoted, I’ll have to take 200, 800 and maybe 775.

        The committee that developed this should all be taken out and shot. And I say committee because no single person could design and write this unless they were really evil.

    1. Weyrwoman*

      Wow that job is sending up red flags for me. I mean, they obviously need a copywriter/editor because that was awfully written.

  161. Resented for ascending the ladder*

    Not to brag, but I am excellent at what I do. I am in the process of getting my 3rd promotion in 3 years at my organization. Yet despite this, I feel like the red headed step child here. No one mentors me and, no one cares about my happiness, no one tries to get me to stay. There’s an obsessive preoccupation with “fairness” towards people who have been here longer than me. Senior management acts as if I should be grateful for getting my promotions, when in fact I have simply been the most qualified fit each time.

    I’m not arrogant or an a-hole. If anything I’m really quiet and unassuming, and among my peers I make and maintain friendships easily. But senior management acts like I’m a diva any time I don’t want to do something 2 pay grades below me, just because I used to do it. I’m so tired of it. I hope I get a new job soon.

    1. animaniactoo*

      Let’s explore – is it possible that you are actually to some extent being a diva? Sometimes you do things 2 pay grades below you because somebody needs to pitch in and get it done and you know how to do it.

      I haven’t been a color corrector/photo manipulator for my company for a long time, but that doesn’t mean I blanch at doing it when it’s needed. In fact, if I have extra time, I will often volunteer.

      As far as being the best person for the job at the time – yes, you were and yes, you should be happy that it was recognized and you got the promotion because of it, not someone who has been there longer than you just because they were.

      It’s possible that no one mentors you because they see you being successful and good and don’t think that you need it or that anything they have would reasonably help you.

      It is also fair to put time into other employees, helping to develop them, particularly as part of the goal is to get them GOOD at their jobs and capable of being promoted, not just eternally passed over for the new wunderkid who comes in and manages to pick it up faster/better/etc.

      I’m also not sure what you mean by nobody tries to get you to stay. How do you frame promoting you if not trying to keep you happy and with them (in addition to being the best person for the job)? I mean, they could also eliminate positions and redistribute work without extra pay (that’s the opposite extreme, but it’s also very common).

      If there’s more here that I’m missing please elaborate, but from what you’ve written so far, a lot of this seems like it could be more about the expectations you’re holding than a more realistic view of how some of this stuff works in general.

      1. Resented for ascending the ladder*

        I’m not talking about something like color correction, which only some people have the skill to do. I mean basic admin tasks like answering the phone which literally anybody could do, but no one else at my level is asked to.

        When I say they don’t try to get me to stay, I mean no one ever checks int to see if I’m happy or if I’m doing what I’m interested in. The times I have been promoted have been the result of a reorganization– it’s not instances of a new exciting opportunity opening up and my applying. In fact I’ve never had a say in any of my promotions other than basically accepting it or quitting.

        Like yeah, I’m “grateful” the reorgs have resulted in promotions and not layoffs just like I’m grateful to get a paycheck, but I think of employment as a mutually beneficial arrangement.

        1. fposte*

          Could just be my neck of the woods, but what you’re describing sounds pretty normal to me. I’m not familiar with workplaces where people get much beyond a yea or nay about a promotion or get checked in with to see if they’re happy. Sometimes there’s checking in about career trajectory, but not always. And I like my workplace.

          1. Resented for ascending the ladder*

            really? I manage people and I check in with them monthly. One of the things I keep mindful of is their engagement and their interests, career goals, professional development, etc.

            1. fposte*

              I talk to my people all the time, but what you’re describing sounds like emotional temperature-taking that I wouldn’t do. I assume they’re reasonably happy with the job and that they find it sufficiently interesting for the money; if they don’t, there’s not much I’m likely to do about that but wish them well in their future endeavors, so there’s not much point in my bringing it up. I will discuss career growth and directions, but to me that’s a different thing, and it’s also something, as I said, that’s far from universal (it’s not something that my superiors have discussed with me, for instance).

              I’m also not sure where the promotion model is a problem. Is it just that your company doesn’t offer much in the way of new openings that you find interesting? Then that’s another reason to look elsewhere.

        2. animaniactoo*

          Pretty much what fposte said.

          This is very very normal in the workworld and unless you are actively seeing other people be asked these things (and in some cases that might be a politely worded “You’re kind of sucking at this… are you sure you can do it well enough to keep your job?”), I would not expect to be seeing it.

          As far as admin tasks like answering the phone: Are there people below your level who would be available to be asked? And I think you’re underselling when you say anyone can answer the phone. Yes, they physically can. But to do it politely, tactfully, and be able to correctly direct calls really is beyond some people who have never had to be “polished” in that way. Can they quickly be trained to do so? Probably. But not necessarily.

          It also sometimes depends on the size of your org. Smaller orgs, you can expect to be doing more scut work, jack-of-all-trades stuff – particularly ones that are small enough to do reorgs 3 times in 3 years!

          However, I understand not wanting to do the phones stuff as a mark of perspective and how you’re viewed. In that case, I would make a stronger push at a time when you’re not being asked to cover/answer the phones: “Can we work on training someone else on this? It’s pulling me away from what I’m working on too often” or something along those lines.

    2. RainbowRug*

      Ohhh i totally understand where you are coming from!!!

      Its actually a good thing to be pretty firm about doing low level work with the exception of animatico and fpostes examples.

      What i am gathering though is that you are not just being asked to occasionally cover – you are becoming the go to back up for items that, if a new employee were hired to your role would never be asked to do. It is understandable and not diva to resist this. Being seen as the catchall low level work person can actually detriment your career as well! After all you cant manage your employees, work on strategy, or develope programs if you have to play admin assistant every MWF afternoon while ypur fellow mngrs don’t.

      Really there is only two things to do – if your company is big enough switch departments. Otherwise find a new job.

  162. AnotherAlison*

    Yesterday was terrible, for a puzzling reason. I have a project team member who is assigned a task, says it is finished, and then when I check it, I find it is not finished at all. He seems to know it, because we had this conversation in which I asked him about the missing information, and he says he could not find it to include in the package. First, I’m irritated that you didn’t find it, but I’m more irritated that you didn’t ask me for help to find it sooner, or at all! Or at least flag that this wasn’t finished. What if I didn’t have time to check it? I’m trying to figure out if it’s a lack of effort or trying to save face when he doesn’t know how to do something. It’s not the first time.

    1. animaniactoo*

      What’s the possibility that he means “It’s finished as far as I can make it” not “It is complete and no further work is necessary to be done on it by anyone”? And that this could therefore be resolved by a conversation of what your definition of “finished” is and what you’re looking for when you hear that?

  163. Desdemona*

    I have an office etiquette question. I recently started a new job that was an internal lateral move — this new position is a much better fit for my skills and I’m so happy to be in it. I now report to three different directors, all of whom I knew (at varying degrees) before. On my last day in my old job, one of the directors I don’t know very well left a very nice card on my desk after-hours welcoming me to the new role. I really appreciated it, but I never responded or acknowledged the card — I don’t see this person regularly (in fact, I still haven’t even seen them since I started the new job) and it just seemed kind of weird to email (I didn’t know what to say, either). Just for my own info, what should I have done? I didn’t want to be rude but I didn’t know what to do!

    1. analytica*

      I don’t really think there is a need to do anything! It was a kind gesture which you appreciated, and when you next see this person, you can just mention your appreciation of it very casually if it fits into the conversation.

      1. LostInTheStacks*

        I agree. My grandmother’s rule for etiquette is that, when it comes to gifts/tokens of appreciation, you go once step down with your response. If you get a physical gift, you give a card; if you get a card, you give a verbal thanks. Otherwise it’s too much like sending thank-you cards for thank-you cards!

  164. KR*

    Dear AAM, the office heat in my office is awful and I am currently numbish in the hands. Please send blankets. Or a fireplace. Or a sunny day. Sincerely, KR

    1. KR*

      Update: the heat is turned to 80 currently and it’s 61 in here right now (and I doubt it’s 61 because I am FREEZING and grew up with New England winters. It feels like mid to lower 50s). UGH

      1. copier queen*

        Our office is much colder/hotter than other offices in our building — and no one believes my boss and me on this — so I bought us a thermometer on officedepot.com. It is gigantic, like something you would put on the outside of a barn or something, but when it’s ridic cold or hot in our area, I just snap a pic of the themometer and send it to Facillities, and they adjust the temparature. No one doubts the giant thermometer ;)

        1. KR*

          We have already brought in HVAC technicians several times. The heater on the building belongs to the person we lease the space from and it just Sucks, unfortunately. :/:/:/ Thanks.

      1. Yami Bakura*

        What about an aardv-ark? :)
        (seriously though, I hope the rain doesn’t freeze on the sidewalk tonight)

        1. Elizabeth West*

          LOL
          Nah, we had the freezing rain the other day. It’s supposed to warm up a little. I’m very glad I didn’t have to be at a job during the icy bits, however. I don’t mind driving on snow and I have new tires, but ice? Nope nope nope-ity nope.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I’d gladly swap with you. I don’t like being too warm and the person next to me requires a portable heater.

      Yours, Melting In England

  165. KayEss*

    When I was laid off last month, I wrote up a huge email of “obscure stuff you should probably know” for the guy who would by default be picking up the slack from my eliminated position… just got an email this morning from him telling me it really saved his butt. He was unfailingly helpful while I was there and I enjoyed working with him, so I’m glad I was able to keep him from being blindsided by some truly bizarre once-a-year processes.

    At least, those are the warm fuzzies I’m trying to focus on… my bitter side still wants the administration to regret getting rid of me. But this guy and his boss had nothing to do with that, and in fact really pushed hard to keep me on even though I wasn’t in their department, so making their lives difficult probably wouldn’t work its way up the chain in a way that mattered, anyway.

    1. analytica*

      Kudos to you for doing the right thing in a tough time. You can simultaneously hope the company dearly regrets their decisions (and maybe for their demise muahaha) while also supporting those who looked out for you. You now have a super strong connection for the next time this guy can return the favor.

    2. Rainy*

      I had a job many years ago where I was shit on regularly by pretty much everyone at the small company, despite being the person who spent the most time in the office, who did all the records and filing, most of the bookkeeping, and almost all the client interactions and scheduling. When I gave them generous notice that I was leaving, my boss told me what a piece of shit I was and how my work ethic was crap and in the same breath asked me to advertise, collect applications, generate a short list, do interviews, select my replacement, and then train them. I did my very best, but for what they were paying, options were very limited. My replacement lasted less than six weeks and quit via a post-it stuck to the desk in the middle of the day, and it took them years to find anyone who could stick it out for more than a few months in a role I’d held for three and a half years.

      They will definitely regret getting rid of you. In my case, starting about six months after I left, I got reduced-to-nearly-free services from the company for the rest of the time I lived in that city, and they often used to reminisce about the good old days when I worked there when I came in. Ha ha. :)

  166. PineappleCake*

    Looking for some general tips.
    I’ve applied for a job where my new boss would be a former coworker. We worked together for nearly 10 years. She wasn’t my manager but she would coordinate projects that I’d contribute to, so she’s very familiar with me and how I work. We had a great working relationship. But I’ve never gone through any kind of interview process with someone I know well. I’m a bit concerned that I might default to assuming that she knows what I can do, or go too far the other direction and explain too much things that she well knows. Tips?? Thank you!

  167. LAI*

    How much are you expected to keep working if you’re exempt and your job is done? I’ve been exempt for a long time but always in roles that had more work than could be done. I’m in a new role now and the work is coming in SOOOOOO slowly. I feel like I’m just sitting around waiting for people to get back to me. So, if I’m exempt, to what extent am I expected to keep generating new work for myself/finding ways to work on professional development, etc? I met with my boss a couple weeks ago to talk about new projects and he only gave me one thing that took a couple of days and is now done, and another project that I can’t even start on for a few more months.

  168. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

    Other graphic designers out there, I’m just going to rant. I’m taking over designing a magazine my coworker has been the graphic designer on for the last decade and he…sigh…I know I’m really persnickety about my files and we all have our ways of doing things…but…there are no style sheets set up; he has no master pages set up; his bleed is “whatever, LOL”; his color pallet is a tornado of spot, CMYK, and RGB; HE MANUALLY NUMBERS THE PAGES…there’s more but…I’m just weeping right now. I hate taking over someone else’s project W.T.E.L.F.

    1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      …he didn’t use facing pages — there is no left page right page they are all single page…my god

    2. analytica*

      NOOOOOOO. I am not a graphic designer but the little bit of experience I have with it just screams a guttural, horrible cry at this.

    3. Goya de la Mancha*

      It’s sometimes easier to just “archive” and start fresh. When I took over for an old co-worker on one of our publications (not a GD, but utilize a program for my work) – I moved all her saved work into a “Jane’s files” folder and then started my own fresh. It took time to re-set things up, but so much easier then cleaning up after her. Saving a folder for her stuff let me go back in if I couldn’t find the original source.

      1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

        That’s what I’m doing. Deep breaths. I’m just trying to salvage what I can so that there some continuity on this magazine.

        1. Goya de la Mancha*

          Definitely deep breaths. The worst was if I had to use her work, I’d find all these hidden layers, objects, band-aids, etc. because she didn’t really know efficient ways of doing things – *head desk*

    5. Amber Rose*

      I wish my company would hire someone like you, who knows what they’re doing. Instead they have me do it, and I pretty much just know enough to make a mess in GIMP and that’s it.

      I’ve been trying to design an invitation for the last two days and it’s going poorly because I haven’t the first clue what I’m doing. I’ve learned just enough to realize how out of my depth I am. It really makes me respect people in your job.

      Also I’m sorry. I’m just, so sorry.

    6. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      Bastard is chuckling at me and says, “I know, I’m lazy.” You sociopath, setting up sheets is the LAZY SOLUTION!

      1. animaniactoo*

        Once upon a time I did myself out of two jobs by being awesome at the style sheet and all the rest setup:

        1) Scholastic Magazine. They wanted me bad. But they couldn’t meet my price point. If I knew then what I know now, I would have proposed a bargain: If my output is significantly higher than average, I get a raise after X months to at or near my price point (we were far apart). Because they’d need to pay me for fewer hours.

        2) Freelancing, came in, took on a regular job they had coming in, setup style sheets, had it processed in no time. The moment they realized the style sheets were in place and all they had to do going forward was apply them was the moment they stopped hiring me to do that job.

        1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

          Oooooo, this is why you write in your contract (if you were freelance) that you retain all possession of your files.

          1. animaniactoo*

            25 years ago – it wasn’t a thing yet then and I was working on site. Plus, it was a typesetting job mostly on that one, so they actually needed the final file to print (pretty much pre-PDF-format too).

    7. Production artist*

      Oh dear god. I’ve been a production artist for many years. I just went fetal under my desk, reading this.

      Do you have time to build an actual functional template for use going forward? I’d never be able to work in files like that. I’d lose my mind.

      1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

        Thank you. I work on other magazines for the university so I’m using one of those and adjusting. I do have some time, not a lot. I started my career in production so I’m meticulous in my files and my coworkers tease me about it.

  169. Environmental Gone Public Health*

    I have a third interview that will mostly be a plant tour of the facility for next Wednesday. Very excited! I really like the work that I would be doing, and the people that I’ve interviewed with I’ve clicked well with, and they’ve flat out told me they’re very impressed with me.

    1. The general office culture there seems to be jeans and a polo shirt. Since this next interview will be a plant tour, and the agenda specifically says no skirts/dresses or open toed shoes, do you think it’d be permissible to wear khaki slacks, my steel toed boots, and a nice button up shirt? I wore business professional to the first interview.

    2. I have no faith that my current boss is going to take me resigning (with whenever I get an offer, hopefully after this interview, but still interviewing elsewhere too) well at all. I don’t think she’s going to be that pleasant, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she badmouths me. Is there anything I can do to mitigate this? She does have the reputation of being overly abrasive/rude/etc.

    3. Should I notify her supervisor of her rude/unprofessional behavior? We work in a county health dept, she’s dept head. She often mocks customers that come in or call in (we work with the public, and admittedly we often get nonsensical or odd calls/requests), she’ll walk off site from a contractor if they disagree with her, she gets very aggressive & defensive with people. She’s very prone to yelling. Her behavior and lack of ability to manage is a big reason why I started looking for other employment.

    4. Since I work closely with quite a few contractors, should notify them once I resign, or is that more of a managerial responsibility?

    5. I just want to say too how happy I am that this blog/community exists, because I don’t think I would have had the confidence to get myself out of what is feeling more and more of a toxic situation, and ask for what I’m actually worth.

    1. Lipsy Magoo*

      Good luck at the third interview! What you are planning to wear seems fine to me.

      As far as your other questions I’m not sure how to advise you but wanted to wish you well in moving on :)

    2. Observer*

      Your outfit sounds fine.

      Let the contractors know. It really a management responsibility, but given how your boss behaves, it would be sensible to do it anyway.

      1. Environmental Gone Public Health*

        Thanks. Part of me was saying I’d rather them hear the information from me rather than whatever she’d spin it into. I liked working with most of them, so while I really don’t expect to return to the public health field ever again, I’d rather them not hear something completely wonky from her.

  170. hopeful candidate*

    After more than a month of job searching I finally got an interview!

    I really prepared and I think I did really well but I was thrown by one thing.

    The lead interviewer mentioned that someone had been contracting in the role for 12 months but they were advertising to make it a permanent position. In these instances do you think the internal candidate is almist always a shoe in?

    1. Susan K*

      Not necessarily. If the internal candidate is doing a great job, then yes, they’ll probably pick her. But it’s very possible that (a) they’re not completely satisfied with the internal candidate and they’re hoping to find someone better, (b) you have qualifications they want that the internal candidate doesn’t have, or (c) the internal candidate doesn’t even want the permanent position, or will turn it down for some reason (like not being satisfied with salary or benefits). Good luck!

    2. Rainy*

      I’ve honestly seen it go both ways. I think that if you are more qualified you probably have a good chance.

  171. A Nonny Mouse*

    I have had a real week from hell at work, and it was a 4 day week.

    In a casual discussion when I was being briefed on what I missed when away, my manager said something very rude to me out of the blue about how I hadn’t been doing my work (which I have been doing!!). It was so rude that another coworker texted me after we left for the day to be like wtf.

    Then the next morning I was called in for a chat because my manager felt my body language was not positive enough in that discussion. I brought up the rude comment and received an “apology” about how it was said in the heat of the moment.

    Anyway the situation has been escalated because this is one of the worst things that’s happened but it is a pattern of behaviour and I just can’t anymore. I’ve been fantasizing of writing a bridge burning email.

    Does anyone have advice on just getting through it? I try to follow the advice here about resumes and cover letters but I don’t feel like I’m implementing it properly. I feel drained all the time too so it feels like my brain is not functioning at 100% anyway. Blah.

    1. Plague of frogs*

      Ugghh, so sorry you’re going through this. Definitely write the bridge burning e-mail, but don’t send it.

      1. Environmental Gone Public Health*

        But write the email in Word or something other than the email program, so it can’t accidentally be sent either.

  172. Barbara Ann*

    One of my coworkers has a meme up at her desk that says: 1917, people went to war and fought and sacrificed for their country. 2017, people need safe spaces to protect their feelings from “mean” people.

    My boss, her boss and HR say there is no problem with it. I talked to a lawyer who said there was nothing illegal about it. I have to interact with her person for work. Besides job hunting (which I am for a myriad of reasons) how do I deal with working here until I find a new job? No one else has a problem with the meme besides me and she hasn’t been unprofessional to me besides the meme

    Thank you.

    1. LCL*

      This is bugging you so much you went to your boss, her boss, HR, and A LAWYER over it? Maybe if you could identify to yourself what it is that is bothering you so much about the meme you will gain some insight on how to deal with it. Or if you post here what specifically is bothering you people might have some good suggestions. Because to me, the meme sounds slightly tacky, as memes are, but not that upsetting.

      1. Mbarr*

        Agreed. It’s a silly saying, but to me it’s just making fun of people… Like the rest of society makes fun of millennials.

      2. Environmental Gone Public Health*

        ^^ Agree. That really doesn’t sound that egregious, especially if she’s been nothing but professional otherwise. It actually comes across as a little ironic, to be completely honest.

      3. Delphine*

        The “people need safe spaces” meme usually targets women and people of color, not just anyone. I’m not surprised the OP is bothered by it. It has racist and sexist connotations. Most people don’t put it up innocently.

        1. fposte*

          I’m not surprised that she’s bothered by it; it’s the degree to which she’s bothered that seems unusual to me. I’m wondering if she’s had other problems in this workplace that it seems to represent or if it’s extra-painful for a particular reason. To me this is more of an eyeroll and a mental checkmark territory, not talking to a lawyer and leaving the job territory.

    2. fposte*

      It’s snotty, that’s for sure. But it also sounds like it’s hitting you in a way that it wouldn’t hit me, to the point where it’s tainting not just her but your whole workplace. Can you say a little more about why, so I might have more ideas about what strategies could be useful?

    4. Babayaga*

      It’s too bad you let everyone know that you don’t like it…you could have just torn it off her desk and pretend you have no idea where it went. Or am I just terrible?

      1. fposte*

        I think that would be asking for some pretty serious trouble. If one of my staff was tearing stuff she didn’t like off of a co-worker’s desk rather than talking to anybody, I’d be unhappy with them.

            2. Environmental Gone Public Health*

              Especially when it seems to just be on the coworker’s desk. If the coworker was dancing around waving it in people’s faces, cackling madly, then I’d understand the level of irritation here. But it’s just sitting on the coworker’s desk.

    5. Amtelope*

      Going to your boss, her boss, HR, and a lawyer is … really, really a lot for this. Way more than was a good idea. This person has an annoying opinion, and you can certainly dislike her for it, but you’re always going to have to work with some people who have annoying opinions and who you dislike. This isn’t something you should expect your company to fix.

    6. Thlayli*

      I don’t really see why that meme upsets you. It’s factually correct and getting so upset that you are going to a lawyer about it is… kind gf proving the point.

    8. Observer*

      What exactly do you think might be illegal about this meme?

      How do you deal with with working there? By getting a grip on your emotional reactions. You’re reacting in a way that’s really, really over the top. Either there is something else at this workplace that’s the real issue, or you there is another issue that you have that’s setting you off, or a combination. But in any case, you need to figure that out and figure out how to deal with stuff you don’t like.

      Your reaction is so extreme and dysfunctional, that I would seriously suggest that you get some outside help (therapist or the like.) Because this kind of intense reaction is going to make it harder for you to find a new job, and it’s going to make it extremely difficult to keep a job.

  173. Anon for this*

    We have a freelance videographer that we’ve brought in on a contract and he’s not really working out. My boss is asking me to propose a process for how to manage him and I’m really not sure what to do.

    The issue as I see it is that my boss doesn’t know how to work with creatives. He wants complete creative control – he wants to dictate the idea, get the videographer to film exactly what he wants and cut it the way he pictures in his head. Basically he wants a filming and editing monkey, but then he gets frustrated that the contractor isn’t bringing their own creative ideas…? This isn’t how it’s supposed to work, right? I thought the point of hiring creatives was to let them be, well, professional creatives. I don’t really see how someone is expected to just do what you want, but also be creative. He has a very clear idea of what he wants in his head, but he’s not great at communicating his ideas, so it can be pretty hard to determine exactly what he wants.

    It’s a really frustrating situation. I can see this particular contractor chafing under my boss’s micromanaging approach – the endless rounds of edits, the lack of positive feedback, etc. As the person who does design in my office, I’ve had experience with this from my boss too and I know how hard it can be. However, this contractor isn’t delivering what my boss wants. He misses certain edits, doesn’t seem to have the best instincts, and there are some obvious technical issues with his filming and editing (lighting, music synching, etc). Also, after several rounds of edits, I can see editing fatigue setting in, where we’re all just so tired of seeing the same thing over and over that things fall through the cracks or new errors are introduced.

    My boss proposes that we bring him in every week for a half-day session where we talk video strategy and then sit down with him as he’s editing at the office. Basically dictating the edits over his shoulder. I know that we might get what we want out of this, but it feels incredibly micromanagy to me and doesn’t feel sustainable long-term. Neither I nor my boss has the time to do this every week, and this just feels like a recipe for resentment and disaster. Also, I don’t see how we’re going to be able to get the contractor to come up with creative ideas if we give him no space to be creative and squash everything instantly.

    My instincts are telling me that this is a bad idea, but I really don’t know what else to propose. My boss got upset with me when I couldn’t come up with an alternative solution on the spot. I don’t think my boss’s expectations are overly realistic or fair, but how can I possibly communicate that to him? Is there a better solution out there?

    A note: neither I nor my boss is a videographer or is capable of video editing. These aren’t expert opinions that we’re offering to the videographer…is this a case of my boss not respecting professionals? Is this just another example of the “Cheap, fast, or good. Pick two.” dilemma? Help!

    1. Anony*

      I actually think the bigger problem may be that your videographer is underperforming. If the videographer “misses certain edits, doesn’t seem to have the best instincts, and there are some obvious technical issues with his filming and editing (lighting, music synching, etc).” then it is going to be hard to tell your boss to step back and trust him to do his job. At this point it may be easier to lean into the micromanaging. Make clear detailed lists of what you want done so that it is all spelled out and everyone is on the same page. Additionally tell your boss that in order for the videographer to know what your boss does and does not like, he has to actually give some positive feedback about the things he likes.

    2. Koala dreams*

      On one hand, it’s quite possible that the videographer don’t have the skills to do want you want. They can be a decent videographer yet don’t have the specific skills needed for this project. Also, filming and editing are quite different skillsets. Maybe you need to hire another videographer? Maybe you need to hire a dedicated editor or producer or ?

      On the other hand, videographers are not mind readers, and without clear instructions on what you want, as opposed to what you don’t want, no videographer is going to make a great job for you. I understand that neither of you have the technical vocabulary to describe exactly what you want, but you can still describe the general idea in every day language. There are going to be hundred ways to do the wrong thing for every thing you want.

  174. animaniactoo*

    For general amusement, I got an email update yesterday from one of our partners about upcoming tv and film releases. There were a couple of typos, but this is the one that made me crack and laugh my ass off at my desk (in reference to a remake of a classic film):

    “What to look forward to for the Lice Action…”

  175. Mbarr*

    Question for all of you – how would you handle it if you found out your coworkers on a project were being paid overtime but you weren’t?

    Long story short, when I first started at my new job/company, I was hired by Department X. My coworkers were in Department Y and Z. We all worked in a project room together on a massive project. I noticed they were arriving earlier, and leaving later than me. In an effort to follow the status quo, I started doing the same (e.g. staying an extra 30-60 minutes later). A couple of months later, I found out from another coworker in Department Z, that the people in Department Y get paid overtime.

    About 6 months after the project went live, one of them told me they were no longer allowed to claim overtime. Also, Department Z coworker told me that a mutual friend who used to work in Department Y, but switched roles to be a Manager in Department X, admitted, “Because of overtime, I got paid way more as part of Department Y than I am as a manager right now.”

    I mentioned it to my manager, in the sense of, “I found this out and I’m not impressed”, but nothing ever came out of it. (I wasn’t very assertive about it, but I was still too new to feel like I had capital to spend on it.)

    1. fposte*

      Do you know who’s exempt and who isn’t in all this? It sounds like the Department X manager, for instance, was non-exempt and therefore OT was required, and he then was made exempt when he became a manager.

      If that’s the case overall on the project–that the non-exempt people are getting paid OT and the exempt people aren’t–that’s very common. Now if you are non-exempt and not getting paid OT (for time over 40 hours in the week), that’s not legal, but if you’re exempt, you don’t work a fixed limit of hours per week.

      1. Mbarr*

        I’m in Canada – I don’t think we have an equivalent of exempt/non-exempt statuses. We’re all full-timers.

    2. Lil Fidget*

      This is an issue in my office too. Certain whole groups of people (everybody with the title of X, for example) were automatically made non-exempt, but we except staff work with them all the time. So when we’re both asked to staff a conference – the other person (who’s base salary is probably the same as mine) is making overtime every hour that we’re there, and I’m not. I guess it’s correcting itself, in that management has figured this out, and now only asks us exempt staff to do the weekend / night work so they don’t have to pay anyone extra. My workweek got longer as soon as we made the switch, and there’s no end in sight. Sigh.

  176. edefran*

    Hi everyone:
    Long time reader, first-time commenter.

    I’m presented with a dilemma that I’m unsure how to handle:
    Next week, I have two interviews – one on Monday and one on Wednesday. I am excited about both of them, and they have been scheduled for a long time.
    Today, I received an E-mail from a Company Z asking me to fly out on Sunday night to spend the week in City X working on a short-term project as part of an interview for a project management position with them.
    While I am very keen on working with Company Z, I am hesitant to cancel my other two interviews next week in order to spend the entire week in City X with Company Z, especially since the position with Company Z is not guaranteed.
    Can I ask Company Z if I can fly out on Wednesday afternoon, after my prior obligations are finished? Or should I cancel my interviews and just fly out to Company Z on Sunday night?

    (Sorry if this is unclear!)

    1. Turkletina*

      Company Z wants you to spend a whole week there as part of an interview? That seems like a HUGE commitment (and potentially a lot of free work). It’s wouldn’t be normal at all in my field and I’m wondering why this is an okay thing for them to ask.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Don’t cancel your other interviews.

      Are they offering to pay you for this short-notice trip in which you will be doing actual work? Because I for one am seeing rather a lot
      of red flags here.

    3. soupmonger*

      So you receive an email on Friday, asking you to fly out Sunday to spend a week working on a project – as part of an interview? What this looks like: they have no respect for your time at all. Have they apologised for the short notice? Are you being paid for the work you’ll be doing? Who own the work you’ll be doing (if you generate material during the week)?
      Please don’t cancel your scheduled interviews. Not for this!

    4. H.C.*

      Yeah, the short notice & time commitment are major red flags — at best I’d ask them to delay this due to your other commitments for next week, at worst I’d move on from this opportunity.

    5. edefran*

      Thanks all for your replies!
      It was my understanding that I would be paid for the work done during the week as part of a short-term contract.

      In any case, I didn’t cancel the other interviews. I asked Company Z if I could amend the dates. Will have to see now what their response is.

  177. A Nickname for AAM*

    Hi everyone, I have a question!

    I have an offer for a job (yay) but I’m slightly weirded out by the way they did my references. They asked me for two references, which I provided. A day later, I get a phone call from the hiring manager. She had accidentally dialed my number instead of that of my third reference: she Googled the HR contact at my last organization on her own and was calling their office.

    Now, I have nothing to hide. However, the HR/payroll computer system at that place was a disaster. No one’s job titles or descriptions were correct in the HR computer system, which means HR cannot corroborate my resume: their computer says I was doing a different job than the one I was assigned to. Because the hiring manager accidentally called me, I was able to give her a heads up on the situation and direct her to address any questions on the situation to my former supervisor, who knew could tell her in detail what my duties and responsibilities were.

    She was understanding and still extended the offer, but had she not misdialed me, this would have looked very bad on my part.

    Thoughts?

    1. fposte*

      It’s not at all uncommon for people to want to go outside of the candidate information to check references. I wouldn’t be weirded out by this.

    2. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I’ve never had this happen to me, but from reading this column, it sounds like it’s pretty standard practice nowadays.

    3. Rainbow Rose*

      Sounds entirely normal to me. The problem here is your old org’s poor HR dept. not the reference process.

      1. A Nickname for AAM*

        I should clarify:

        I work for a franchised national nonprofit: this is the third regional franchise I’ve interviewed in. In the other two, it was not permissable to “offroad” for references. And also, because we all share the same org structure, she would know that employees have no interaction with HR and HR cannot tell her anything except dates of employment and maybe if the person was banned from rehire. Even then, that’s subjective: a lot of the supervisors I know would automatically ban everyone from rehire to “punish” them for petty slights.

        That’s why it struck me as really suspicious: this is not something “we” do.

        1. LostInTheStacks*

          Are you sure she would have wanted to ask HR the typical reference questions? Or is it possible that, not knowing your supervisor’s name/number, she was calling HR just to confirm your dates and eligibility for rehire, and then would have asked them for your supervisor’s name for more detailed information?

          It seems hard to tell whether this is a real red flag or not. It might just be that this franchise has been burned in the past by inaccurate references, and now goes offroad as a way of being extra cautious. There are some rules that are so ingrained in the ethics or culture of an org that rewriting them would be a major red flag, but this doesn’t seem like it would necessarily be one of them.

  178. What's up with my workplace?*

    A bevvy of weird, offputting organizational behaviors from my workplace have been happening recently, and I’m wondering if I could get a read on what is going on / why they think these are good ways to do these things.

    1. On Dec 23rd, a coworker stood on a table and yelled at me. I called his boss that day. She didn’t talk to him till January 23rd, after I looped in HR after thinking my boss and his boss had been dealing with it (they had not). Now, we’re waiting (this is the 3rd week) for them to pick an external mediator to come deal with this issue, and other issues with the person who yelled at me.

    2. Two weeks ago, my team was moved out of our awesome office with a beautiful window and easy access to testing space and a number of coworkers that makes it easy to chat about your work, which is vital to our processes, and with another team working on creative stuff, into a row of desks that has to be quiet because of the laser-focus for some of the work required there, is smaller, and doesn’t have as nice light. The official reason was that the team the person who yelled at me is on needs better team cohesion, so his manager and one other team member of his who sat nearby but not in the office we were in are moving into our ex-office. So 6 people moved out for 2 to move in, interrupting our work processes significantly. We were told in a very blunt way, and were not consulted / asked to provide feedback about our concerns before hand, and there are some kind of subtle things about who get to sit where at what positions that makes it a desk demotion.

    3. On Wednesday, we were told that two people on my team had been laid off, and the reason was the positions were eliminated due to a new strategic plan, which hasn’t been released yet. We saw a preview of it, but there wasn’t any thing that directly made the elimination of the positions on my team really clear – it seems like they picked two positions with legacy titles, even though we currently all share the same work, and the two people who got laid off are very good at their jobs (one is kind of a linchpin of our organizational culture). It turns out that in total, 6 people were laid off, all people who do great work (and our org did stress that it was about the positions, not the people, and no one was laid off because their performance was inadequate). So that sent everyone into a freakout spiral. Then at an all-staff meeting yesterday, our CEO said that “people have to make some life decisions” in regards to a question about losing the people’s expertise and skills along with losing the positions, which sounds to me like some of them may have been offered alternate positions, but no one can/will say who or what. So either they laid off a bunch of really amazing people even though they had a lot of work to do, or instead of reformatting people’s jobs / offering them layoffs if they weren’t OK with the job reformat and THEN announcing the departures of the people who were, in fact, leaving, they just decided to go what seems like the maximum upheaval route. I’ve been through layoffs at this org before, and they were sad (and no one on my team / who I worked closely with or was best buds with was impacted), but they weren’t like, a bomb going off, there wasn’t a ton of uncertainty about what was going on, it was clear that they were eliminating less-necessary positions, and the reasons were clearly presented. Additionally, one of the managers of a team close to mine (the manager of the table-yeller) said explicitly that cost-cutting was not the reason, it was to better align roles with the strategic plan that hasn’t been released.

    Does anyone have a read on what on earth is up at my organization, or why it’s doing so many things in ways that are so disruptive? I can think of a few ways to have done all of these things that would not have been quite so panic-inducing, especially now that there’s uncertainty around who might actually be leaving and they couldn’t say “sorry, we’re eliminating these positions, here’s the part of the strategic plan that makes those choices make sense, the people are definitely gone, here’s what positions we’ll be hiring to replace the workload as soon as we can [or why we aren’t doing that], here’s what we’ll do in the interim …” — there’s got to be SOME reason they chose to do it this way instead, right? My manager has said that the adverse impacts of these decisions (desks and layoffs) and how they were rolled out / timelines where all considered and it was deemed necessary to do them this way all the same. I can’t imagine what other factors made these things necessary (the level of uncertainty and disruption, not the desk move or layoffs themselves).

    Also my manager is consistently asking me to be patient with the organization, which is seeming a bit rich since when I recently TRIED to be patient about how they were dealing with the standing-on-tables-yelling incident, it took them a month to do anything, and it’s been two months with no kind of concrete action on a resolution (they are currently trying to find an external mediator), so my patience is both thin even when needed, and a demonstrably bad tactic for dealing with my employer.

        1. k*

          Thanks. It’s really weirding me out, and making me feel totally like my employer doesn’t care about me or my team at all, which seems weird, since we do a lot of public-facing stuff, and are good at it.

          I’m currently wrapping up a master’s degree, and have applied for a PhD program, so if I get into that I’m definitely going to go that direction.

          It sounds like the kind of “other half” of the restructuring will be coming too (adding roles, not additional layoffs, apparently)

  179. I See Real People*

    Why do people who are just getting back to work after having the flu need to come in to our admin office to tell everyone how sick they’ve been? Some of them are clearly still sick. We don’t want the germs. I’ve closed the office door to the hallway, and they still come in just to chat about their symptoms and illness, *cough* *sniffle* (takes a kleenex)…et al. What does one say to keep them out?

    1. Rainy*

      I say “I can’t get vaccinations, so if you have flu, I really need you to stop touching my stuff” while I Lysol, but well, I can’t get vaccinations. You might try something like “I’m really sorry, but can you stop touching everything? We don’t want to spread the virus, and it’s a bad one this year.”

    2. animaniactoo*

      My boss makes the sign of the cross, physically flinches back from you and says “No disrespect, but I don’t need to catch that. You need to get the hell out of my office.”

  180. Spider*

    The question in today’s column on calling an interview an interview reminded me of this embarrassing incident from my youth…

    I was a psychology major in college and was waffling about what direction to go in for grad school. My mother (who, as you will see, had major Boundary Issues) told me she knew a woman who was a psychologist with her own practice, and asked me if I’d like my mom to set up a meeting with this woman to discuss my career options. I said, “Sure, that would be great!”

    My mom set up the meeting for a Friday evening when I could take the train down from college, and I went. I met with the woman in her office, made pleasant small-talk for a few minutes, started asking questions about what kinds of grad school programs she would suggest for my areas of interest, and….she gets confused. Then I get confused. And then she says, “…Well, this is a job interview.”

    **Cue my wits scattering like a spooked flock of sheep.**

    My mother had set me up on a job interview with this psychologist to work in her office and had lied to me and said it was a meeting to discuss my graduate study options. I showed up to this interview in ratty college clothes, no resume, no preparation whatsoever — how the hell did my mother think this would work out well for me?? I didn’t even know what job I was evidently applying for!

        1. Spider*

          Ha, as if she could admit to having any flaws!

          And to keep this work-related — I usually have a very long fuse and put up with a lot of nonsense at work without reaction, but one thing that makes me angry in the blink of an eye is when an authoritarian boss who cannot be reasoned with “volunteers” me for work without my consent, or otherwise makes decisions which directly impact me without informing me, let alone consulting me about it. I will gladly help out anyone I can help out, but goddamnit, you have to *ask* me first.

      2. Spider*

        IIRC, I yelled, “What were you thinking, setting me up on a job interview without telling me?!” and she shrugged and said she was just trying to help out, and that was that. While she had never done this particular thing before, she was continually “volunteering” me for things without my knowledge until it was sprung on me in a situation where I couldn’t say no, so this was par for the course with her. (Pro-tip to parents of young children and parents-to-be: don’t do this to your kids.)

        In retrospect, I’m pretty impressed with the way my younger (and otherwise cripplingly-shy, easily-mortified) self recovered pretty smoothly in the moment when the psychologist told me I was on a job interview. I remember saying, “Huh, my mom didn’t tell me that — she told me this would just be a casual conversation,” and then continuing my questions about the PsyD vs. PhD degrees without getting flustered.

        I do wish I knew what the psychologist thought about what my mom had done, though …

        1. fposte*

          I thought it was going to end that your mom had made the appointment as a therapy session, either to trick you into therapy or to trick the therapist into an informational interview. I’m not sure if that’s better or worse.

  181. I haz the insomnia*

    How do I work when I’m sleep deprived and can’t concentrate on anything to save my life? Especially if I’ve slept badly for 3 nights straight, have no attention span left, and don’t want to drink extra coffee or else I’ll lose even more sleep?

    1. Rainy*

      Try a cold cloth over your face briefly and a lot of ice water to drink, plus a fan blowing on you. Cold tends to keep me a little more awake.

    2. LAI*

      Is it possible to take a sick day? I’ve done this once when I literally hadn’t slept at all and I knew there was no way I was going to make it through the day. Obviously, it’s not a long term solution though…

    3. H.C.*

      Can you squeeze in a nap during breaks and/or lunch? Even 20 minutes will do wonders in rejuvenating your brain.

      1. I haz the insomnia*

        I ultimately ended up doing that after giving up this afternoon. The second wind was definitely real.

        1. H.C.*

          Yay! Also, after sleep-deprived nights I’d often pack a lunch I can snarf down in 5-10 minutes so I can use the rest of the break to catch some shut-eye.

    5. Thlayli*

      Caffeine actually makes you more tired. It gives you temporary energy and then a crash. You can leverage this to help you sleep. Drink about 100mg of caffiene first thing in the morn, then 100mg at lunchtime. No more caffeine all day. You will be wrecked tired at night time and will sleep better.

  182. Me--Blargh*

    A couple of employers looked at my applications. Thank you, LinkedIn and Indeed for making this possible, so I get these tormenting emails every so often :P. But I’ve heard nothing more.

    I made the mistake of having a conversation about this job hunt with my dad, who is now hassling me about it. “Why don’t you apply to the animal attraction? You’re excellent with animals THEY WOULD HIRE YOU.” (Spoiler: tried it; they didn’t.) Sending me clippings in the mail — wages in [city, our state] are higher than the average (yeah, Dad, so is housing, and they conveniently left that out, and no one from those cities is contacting me). I called my mother and said please tell him to stop. He’s just making it worse and he keeps suggesting things I’ve already done. It’s like talking to people about dating, which I just don’t do anymore for the same reason.

    I’m beginning to think I’m just….unemployable. I lack skills I need to be competitive and to make a move out of admin work, and I have no way to pay for meaningful instruction until I actually get a job.

    The suck is spreading. I received an invite to a special event thrown by a company I patronize (not someplace I could work, just a happy fun place). When I asked on Facebook if anyone wanted to go with me, *crickets*. Not one person commented even to say Oh I’d love to but can’t. And to top it all off, the sun refuses to come out and it won’t stop raining. I feel like Gollum — banished into the Misty Mountains to languish, alone, forever. Well fine; precious and I will just stay here where we don’t have to talk to nasty tricksy peopleses!

    Right now, concentrating on major book revisions so I can query and try #PitMad one last time. The organizer of the critique meetup I joined is giving me a beta reading (in chunks because she has a life) that has done some actual good. But maybe I just can’t write, either.

    /jerkbrain out

    1. Mbarr*

      Don’t assume the LinkedIn views are employers – it could just be random recruiters who look at EVERYONE.

      And also don’t assume your unemployable. Have you had anyone review your resume/cover letter? When I first job hunted, despite having lots of intern experience and knowing I was a kick ass young grad, I had a hard time getting a job. In retrospect my cover letter and resume were bad… Not atrociously bad, but definitely not up to par.

      1. Me--Blargh*

        This was a recruiter for a job I actually applied to, not just random viewings.

        Resume was reviewed by the talent team at Exjob; I liked the way she set it up and kept it. I guess my cover letter sucks. But I’ve applied to a couple of jobs without including one (admin) and gotten mixed results.

        I think people look at my resume and see Exjob, which is one of the highest paying companies here, and think Oh hell no; she’ll want way more than we can pay, or else Why is she not there anymore? Why did they not want her?

    2. ginkgo*

      OMG! I’ve been getting those too. (LinkedIn sends emails now that specifically say “Someone at [Employer] has viewed your application for [Position]!”, so it’s definitely not just random people viewing the profile.) I don’t want to know this! Call me for an interview or leave me alone!!!!

      I got one from an employer’s recruiting system (not LinkedIn) and was like “Agh, don’t want to know, but at least I can brace myself for a rejection soon” and instead they sent me a writing test. What even. I hope I can be at my next job for 5-10 years because I’m starting to think I’m not emotionally cut out for job hunting. Sympathy.

      1. Me--Blargh*

        Yeah, I haaaaate it. I assume they’re going to look at it anyway. This doesn’t tell me anything — they could have looked and said, “Hmm, I’m going to hang onto this one,” or “LOL no” and hit the delete button.

        A writing test? That doesn’t sound like a rejection. It sounds like further screening, depending, of course, on the job was for. When I applied to Exjob, I got an editing test before they scheduled an interview–80% of the job involved editing. I nailed it (to the wall, baby!) and that’s why I got the job.

    3. Emma*

      One strategy for inviting people is inviting a specific person. I’d do it by text or phone, or even facebook message. It’s way easier for people to ignore a general “anyone interested” query, but if you contact them individually, they’re rude if they ignore.

      I’m sorry things are so hard right now!

      1. Me--Blargh*

        I couldn’t think of anyone specifically –they all have kids etc. What bummed me out is that nobody even said “Oh sounds fun but X.”

        Thanks. I can’t do this much more. If this is going to be the rest of my life, well, I don’t want it.

    4. The New Wanderer*

      I just signed up for the Premium (first month free, which is all I’m doing) version. Guess what – all those “X number of views this week!” emails appear to be bogus. Or rather, I might have appeared in a search but those people did not actually look at my profile. I can now see exactly who’s viewed my profile in the past 90 days, and it’s way less than X. Doesn’t help that two were people at companies I applied to and didn’t hear from.

      I stopped getting hits on my resume so I’ve changed it up a few times, stressing other skills that might be more marketable. I am also trying a new cover letter, after realizing my old one was aimed more at the job I wish I was applying for, not the job I actually was applying for.

      Also parental advice is the worst. I keep getting advised to work retail or food service in the meantime. I’m not in a position where that even makes sense to suggest, lots of people need those jobs more than I do, so it’s very irritating to hear. Or “apply to companies near us!” (3000 mi from where I live, with one single employer that even hires in my field). We’re not moving. I’m not breaking up my family to relocate solo, and even if things changed tomorrow, I’m not interested in work in that location. It’s a non-starter, so just STOP.

      1. Me--Blargh*

        This was a recruiter for a job I applied to. It’s been a couple of weeks so I’ve just color-coded it “No” on my spreadsheet.

        I feel horrible because my mum is actually supporting me right now. She said Dad is just worried and has been worrying a lot, no doubt because someday they won’t be here and I’ll just end up in a ditch because I’m unemployable.

        I get so angry sometimes about this–I FINALLY found a good job and I was good at it, and then *poof* it turned into my worst nightmare. I know life isn’t fair, but wtf. Why do this and then c*ckblock every attempt I make to get out of here? Dammit, Universe. Dammit.

        One place in BiggerCityInMyState did email me (not recently), but it turned out the job was actually in SmallerCityInAnotherState, a city which someone I know left because it sucked. The last thing I want is to get stuck someplace worse than here!

    5. analytica*

      SPOILER: Unsolicited advice ahead – includes “have you tried” in the question. Please please please feel free to completely ignore.

      Have you tried looking at MOOCs (massive open online courses) to up some skills? They are pretty much free across the board and I’ve found coursetalk.com to be helpful in seeing what other learners thought of various curricula and instructors.

      1. Me--Blargh*

        Yes.
        They’re not comprehensive enough and some of the better ones don’t allow you access to all the assignments/materials unless you pay. Anyway, I can in no way get as good as employers seem to want that quickly. They’re looking for years of experience for entry-level jobs. I keep looking at them but so far, other than the super basic HTML course, I haven’t found anything useful.

        1. analytica*

          Depending on what you want to do, you might be able to use these to supplement your skills. For instance, I took the Khan Academy SQL course (didn’t know any SQL before) and ended up getting an analyst position. I flubbed a technical question during the interview, but linked to my profile and the mini-projects in my thank you letter. I was totally trying to redeem myself there.

          SQL Zoo and Mode SQL are really great resources that I’ve used even when continuing to learn today. There are lots of Excel resources as well which could help.

    6. Plague of frogs*

      Nope, you can definitely write.

      I would have loved to go to that thing with you, but I couldn’t because I’m a stranger from the internet.

  183. Weyrwoman*

    I hope it isn’t too late in the day for this, but I have a questions for the commentariat!

    I have some pretty extensive leadership/management experience over the last 4 years or so, but it’s all at anime/comic conventions, which are only for a weekend once a year (I have done this for a total of 3 conventions, two of which are ongoing). I’ve been responsible for leading the team, delegating tasks, handling sensitive situations, and even coaching newer staff members. And these are pretty high stress situations, because it’s for the security/public safety group. But there’s this huge stigma socially, IME, around comic/anime conventions, that leads me to believe this isn’t considered “proper” experience.

    Is this something I should/could put on my resume? If I should/could, would it go with my more normal work experience or should I create a separate category for it? (Volunteer Experience? Other Experience?)

    2. analytica*

      IMO the social stigma is rooted in the condescension towards anime/manga as a dorky hobby, but I don’t feel like this would be inappropriate to bring up. (Nowhere near the level of stigma that the recent sex club organizer LW, for sure!)

      You can put it on your resume, but don’t give it too much real estate. It’s a big event, but as you said only for 1 weekend a year. I’d put it under Volunteer Experience or Other Experience. I kind of a bullet-pointed list of miscellany on the bottom of my resume to highlight my scholarship, club leadership, and honors programs.

    3. Kate Lathrop*

      (waves hand – former Coordinator for Point of Sale at local comic convention for 4 years). Yes! do put it on your resume! I had mine listed at the bottom under volunteer experience, and I laid it out like it was a paid job – and it helped me get several interviews and was part of why I got my current job – ability to think on my feet, quick decision making, planning, etc.) And find a way to bring it up when you interview when they ask you to give examples of when you (fill in the blank here like dealing with a stressful situation).

      1. Weyrwoman*

        Oooh I need to remember to include it with the stressful situation questions. This past year was a real doozy of a con – almost half the registered staff for my team had to last-minute callout due to the flu.

    4. Kate Lathrop*

      follow up question – did you have to do any of the work throughout the year? For example, my fellow coordinators and my manager met once a month outside of the cons, and then weekly in the month leading up to it, so we could pre-plan.

      1. Weyrwoman*

        I don’t have any followup work during the year – I’m just a single step below the people that do that. I’m the equivalent of a manager to a specialised team, and I have a supervisor below me, plus two sub-team leads.

    5. H.C.*

      It really depends on the jobs you’re applying for and if it’s an appropriate fit. I’ve volunteered & worked for massive EDM fests on a recurring basis – but I don’t put it on my resume and only mention it when I get asked about event management experience during interviews (and even then, I couch it as “music festival” given the stigma/mis-perceptions that genre carries.)

      If you do put it in, Work/Other/Volunteer Experience depends if you were paid and how relevant it is to the job you’re applying for.

    6. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      If you’re looking for work in event planning, I’d use it. Otherwise, I don’t think it offers enough value (on your resume, not in life!) to take up space on your resume and invite any weirdness if folks don’t know what anime is/think it’s weird/etc.

    7. SallytooShort*

      I would add it. And if you are concerned that it might cause a distraction you can just say “convention” and not specify what kind on your resume. The important part of this is the experience it gives you. Not the underlying reason for the convention.

  184. Bagpuss*

    I have a query about how to handle letting people know if they aren’t going to get a pay rise.

    Where I work, salaries are reviewed every year, and the business is small enough that everyone knows exactly when that meeting takes place.

    In the past, what has then happened is that individuals who are getting a raise get confirmation of that a few days after the meeting, those who don’t get a raise don’t get a formal ‘you’re not getting a raise’ notification.
    One member of staff has complained and said that everyone ought to get a notification.

    It seems to me that sending a specific ‘you aren’t getting a pay rise’ letter would be .. I don’t know, rubbing it in a bit, but I’m conscious that I may be influenced by the fact that I don’t like the specific staff member who brought it up!

    So – on the basis that everyone knows when the decision is made, would you want to be specifically told that you aren’t getting a raise or would you rather just be told if you have?

    2. Delphine*

      If I had asked for a raise, I would want to know I wasn’t getting one. If this was a yearly practice, and my boss was clear that everyone who was getting a raise following the annual review would know by date X and everyone else should assume they aren’t getting a raise, I think I would be satisfied with that too.

    3. Colette*

      I think you should tell everyone, but in person. If it’s a pay rise, you can hand them the letter and explain why they got it. If it’s not, you can explain why (they’re overpaid, they’re not working at the level you need, budget, etc.).

      1. Anony*

        I agree that scheduling in person meetings with everyone is the best plan. Then at least they get feedback and aren’t left wondering when/if they will hear. If that is not possible, then yes I would notify the people who are not getting raises.

  185. Back and forth*

    I really want to;
    A. Actually crawl under my desk and start rocking back and forth.
    B. When asked why? they have to do something answer with “Spite, we did this out of spite. and in fact we made this rule up just for you – it doesn’t apply to anyone else.”

  186. KB*

    A good friend of mine had a health scare a few months ago and has since been eating a healthier diet and exercising more frequently. She’s lost a considerable amount of weight in a relatively short amount of time. Lately, many of her coworkers (most of whom are women) are saying things like, “Wow, you look so thin!” While it’s often meant as a compliment, she doesn’t feel comfortable just saying “Thank you,” since she does not want to encourage the idea that “thin” translates to “attractive.” She might be especially aware of this as she works for an organization that deals with mental health. She and I have had fun this week brainstorming responses (some goofier than others!), but I thought I’d ask y’all for ideas.

    2. Nanc*

      “Unfortunately, I’ve had some health issues.” Also covers weight gain due to medication or procedures.

      Nosy parkers don’t need to know that she’s doing this deliberately because of a real health scare.

      Wishing your friend a continued good recovery and her co-workers a “wait, I probably shouldn’t have said that” moment.

    3. HannahS*

      “Yeah, I’ve lost weight, but I’d rather not talk about my body.”
      “Yes, I’ve been ill.”
      “Nothing wow about it. I’m still the same old me!”

    4. Mouse Princess*

      I’m interested to hear what people say to this. I have suffered from an eating disorder for 10 years so my weight tends to fluctuate when I relapse. Most people compliment me (you’re so thin!), comment that I can eat anything because I’m young, etc. I used to let it go but since starting therapy I started saying “I’ve been sick, actually” or, if I’m feeling non-confrontational, just going “hmm” and leaving the conversation. Clueless people don’t usually get the hint though, and I don’t want to make them feel bad for what they think is a genuine compliment.

    5. Victoria, Please*

      Ignore it completely and come back with “Love that dress/bag/shoes you have! Where did you get it?”

      Total deflect.

  187. LavaLamp*

    So; I signed a petition today at work. <_< I'm not sure if I should have or not. A bunch of people from dept A want to keep a temp worker and came to dept B (my dept) to ask us all to sign stating that this person is apparently a rock star and really valuable. I signed it and just scribbled for them to listen to employees in the tiny comment box.

    PLEASE tell me this is different than the intern fiasco. I've been at my job for 5 years and am considered a good employee if that helps.

    1. Rainbow Rose*

      Do you know that this employee is a rock star? Can you vouch for them? Do you feel strongly that they should be hired permanently? It doesn’t sound like it from your description, but maybe you do?

      A petition for this sort of thing is a terrible idea, and I wouldn’t have signed it. I’d have told them to talk directly to management, instead of trying to collect signatures as if hiring is a popularity contest. How it plays with your management depends on a lot of things I don’t know, but if I was your boss I’d have serious questions about your judgement for signing such a petition. It’s just such an unprofessional way to approach things that I’d be very concerned.

      1. fposte*

        I don’t think it’s as likely to hurt the signers as the intern petition, but I’m pretty much with you otherwise; it’s a naïve and futile act that used energy that might have been better expended.

          1. LavaLamp*

            I’d also like to add that I’m in construction. I think professionalism is a bit different based on things I’ve witnessed.

    2. SallytooShort*

      Honestly, any petition by employees is different than the intern petition. That doesn’t mean it’s still always a good idea, obviously! But part of what was egregious about the intern situation was that they were essentially guests there for a short time.

      1. LavaLamp*

        I ended up asking my boss about it and she assured me that I was okay to have signed it. The intern thing was making me super anxious about something that’s not really the same.

  188. stitchinthyme*

    A few months ago, I left a Glassdoor review for my previous company, which I left in 2013. (I actually didn’t know about Glassdoor before that, or I’d have done it way sooner.) Soon after, I got a notification that there was a response to my review, but I have not had the courage to go and look at it.

    My review was honest — I listed both the good and bad points of the place, but overall I said that I would not recommend working there. This is a very small company, so it’s likely that the response to the review is from the company owner, and it’s equally likely that, anonymity or not, he can probably guess who wrote it. The only other review was from a very disgruntled former contractor who filed (and won) a dispute with the labor board.

    So why, even though my review was totally honest, if not completely flattering, do I feel like a kid in trouble when I think of going to look at the response?

    1. Rainy*

      If you tend to be conflict-averse, I think that’s enough of a reason to be so anxious about a response. Can you have a friend take a look and give you the thumbs up or down on whether you should read it?

  189. ThatLibTech*

    As it comes closer to my contract end date, I’m starting to get more bummed out that I won’t be working here anymore. I mean, there’s a chance my boss will talk to my grand boss about it again, but there’s not really much I can do that my grand boss will see (afaik?) personally so I stay. I know my boss would hire me permanently right away if she could.

    Mostly just a gripe post. I’m trying to focus on learning as much as I can while I’m here, and planning a vacation for myself after my contract is up.

  190. Therese*

    A job I applied n interviewed for in December is up again…idk if I’ll apply again. The job actually sounded SUPER STRESSFUL and that is probably why the new person didn’t last.

    1. Someone else*

      December 2017? If so, unless you know the company has a specific policy that once they close subsmissions you must apply again to be considered, I wouldn’t apply again now less than three months later. If they wanted to consider you from your previous candidacy they just…would.

    3. animaniactoo*

      Well it kind of depends on why she was fired. I can see things that would make her not work as an employee, but work well as a contractor.

      Do you know why she was fired before?

        2. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

          Had to laugh at this – its basically the Trifecta of Incompetence.

          So… when is he likely to be promoted to management? :D

  192. Aleta*

    Very unscientific poll: I’m replacing my Cozy Hoodie soon, and new factor to take into account is whether or not I can wear it at casual Fridays at work. One with “NO FUN” in big letters across the front for a receptionist position: funny or inappropriate? Current Cozy Hoodie is branded but looks like a generic word salad thing if you’re not familiar with local bicycle subculture. Workplace is on the extreme casual end of business casual to begin with, generally with a good sense of humor. We get very few visitors and the ones we do get are regulars/know me and my very friendly demeanor/etc etc.

    2. Mouse Princess*

      I’d vote no. I have a few shirts like that (“The Worst” and “Kill em with Kindness”) and work in a casual place but still wouldn’t go for it. I think it borders from casual to unprofessional.

    3. HannahS*

      I’d say don’t, but I err on the side of being as nondescript as possible in clothes (but with novelty socks). I see you listed your responses for all of the regular counter-arguments, but I’d still say it’s not worth the risk, specifically because you’re the receptionist, and therefore every visitor’s first impression of the business. Honestly, I don’t get why it’s funny (and I’m a casual young person), so even though it wouldn’t hurt my feelings or make me angry, my first action when entering your workplace would be to be dwelling on your shirt. “Is she telling me that she’s no fun? Is that funny? Is it a tongue-in-cheek schoolmarm thing? Is it that the workplace is a ‘no fun allowed’ kind of place? Is THAT funny? Is it a joke that someone else would find inappropriate, and that’s why it’s vague and I don’t get it?” …and so on. So it’s not a BAD first impression, but it’s distracting and potentially alienating (in a very subtle way) for visitors’ first encounter with a company be something they don’t understand, and not great for a receptionist, because part of your job is being approachable. Sorry :(

      1. Aleta*

        Ah, see, it’s funny because it’s clearly the complete opposite of me if you’ve interacted with me for five seconds. I have a patch from the same brand on one of my bags and stickers on my bikes and I’ve never had someone not laugh so far. Even for people wearing their stuff that aren’t me it’s usually pretty consistently interpreted as sarcastic. Ah well. :/

        1. HannahS*

          Sure, but my point is that it doesn’t matter. If your clothes are saying something that your face and demeanor aren’t (or shouldn’t be), it doesn’t belong at work. If your shirt is being sarcastic, your friendly self doesn’t cancel that out, you know? Especially not if we’re talking about a very brief interaction in a workplace. If you don’t feel that’s valid, then go ahead and wear it! Frankly, from what you’ve said, I doubt your boss would be critical, and at most someone will tell you it’s too casual and you’ll go, “oh sorry, didn’t realize” and there won’t be further consequences. I’m certainly not going to hunt you down IRL to criticize!

          1. Aleta*

            Yeah, I don’t need to replace it right away so I might just wait until it’s warm enough that I wear my sling bag with the patch on it and gauge reactions. Visitors would never see that. I honestly didn’t really think about it that way, since we get probably about an average of five visitors a week and they’re all outside contractors or salespeople. I don’t even know if we’ve gotten any on a Friday since I’ve worked here – there definitely weren’t any today, not counting the postal carrier.

    4. Temperance*

      I wouldn’t do it as a receptionist. My “casual Friday” shirt says WEEKEND, which toes the line .. but I don’t see anyone other than colleagues.

      1. Anony*

        That’s where I fall. I wouldn’t do it as a receptionist but in a non-client facing role it might be ok. It might be ok where you work, but I try to err on the side of caution.

    5. Aleta*

      Okay, nevermind, I actually looked at the hoodie in question and it has a design on the back that is DEFINITELY NSFW and not something I’d want to wear anyway. I thought it was just the front and then a plain back.

    4. Goya de la Mancha*

      Yay around here. We all have our own pandora/spotify’s going during the day…just make sure it’s not so loud that you can hear it on the other side of the office.

    7. H.C.*

      Varies by office culture/norms; I’ll put on headphones if my cube neighbors are on a call or doing work that requires listening (on a webinar, transcribing notes, etc.) – otherwise I’ll keep it at a low volume

    9. Short & Dumpy*

      Only if you have headphones on…and at a volume/headphone quality that the people in the cubes on either side can’t still hear it!

      My last office, I could hear *3* different radios set to 3 different stations from my cube. They were are on softly, but it was a fairly quiet office much of the day because we were all focused on document writing/review. The absolute refusal to require people to use headphones (along withe the rabid assertion by each individual of their constitutional right to listen to their preferred station at their desired volume) might or might not have been the final straw on why I took the first job offer that came along…

    10. Windchime*

      Nay, unless you are the only one in the office. I have bionic hearing, and I can sometimes hear my cube neighbor’s music through her headphones; there is no way I would not hear her radio if she was playing one.

  194. Not that Wonkette*

    My boss knows that I am job-hunting — in fact, he suggested that I start looking for new opportunities as I’m “running out of runway” — but I’m trying to keep a church/state separation. I applied for a job that would include managing our grant at a local foundation. They recognized my name immediately and I’ve been in touch with the ops manager; while no interview has been scheduled yet I’m reasonably confident I’ll get one. He asked where I got the job posting, and I said that my boss did not know I was applying but that he had forwarded it to me, as part of his network.
    However, after that, the current head of the foundation — who would be my boss, and who emailed my current boss asking him to disseminate the job listing, which is how it initially made its way to me — emailed my current boss for a quarterly update for her board, and asked about the state of our program currently (I handle the day-to-day of the program). I was cc’ed but that’s not unusual — most of the relationship is managed by my boss but she certainly knows me as his right hand. He said it was tough (it’s been tough in our field for a while, which isn’t unusual). I may be paranoid, but I’m worried that the request was due to my application, and I very much don’t want to be aced out of a position I would be good at because she’s worried about the strength of the program she funds — it might take a hit in the short term, but my boss has made it clear that I should be job-hunting because I’ve outgrown my smallish org. Should I:

    a.) let my boss in to the fact that I applied and have him communicate that
    b.) have another contact (who is being consulted by the foundation on its hire) imply that, keeping my boss out of the loop right now (which I prefer)
    c.) somehow work in to a conversation with the ops manager
    d.) something else?

    1. Ainomiaka*

      Assuming the head of the foundation has a good relationship with your boss I feel like since your boss is already involved a. I would otherwise agree with your preference for b, but I think that in this case the advantages of being indirect are gone. If you don’t think she’d believe your boss b might still win.

  195. Company-issued credit cards & expense reporting*

    People who deal with company issued credit cards for regular expenses – do you report your expenses by the calendar month or by the credit card statement period? Is there a generally accepted standard for which is correct?

    The company I work for has a team of market representatives who use their company-issued cards for hosting events, printing fliers, etc etc. There are always many transactions per month. When they send in their receipts and explanations for my review, some of them follow the credit card billing period of the 28th – 27th (probably copying directly from the statement) and some go from beginning to end of the month. I strongly prefer the former, because I have the previous month’s credit card statements filed away by the time the new ones come out and it’s a pain in the ass to dig back to previous months for the 3-10 transactions that’re on the statement but not the report.

    I’ve tried to ask their department head about it, but he doesn’t seem to care one way or the other. My department head (my direct boss) is coming down hard on the market reps for a different credit card issue (lack of itemized receipts) and also doesn’t seem to have an opinion on reporting periods. So I guess this is all up to me? And I’m not sure if I’m making too big a deal about it, but it really annoys me and I figure this is a good time to bring it up while we’re being particular about the expense reporting. But this is the first time I’ve dealt with company cards, and I don’t want to ask for something unreasonable or out of usual business norms. Can anyone tell me about their experiences?

    1. Olive Hornby*

      I’ve always reported my expenses based on the credit card billing cycle, but our system sounds much more automated than yours (we have software that pulls the charges from the credit card statement into an app, and we upload receipts/explain the purpose for each charge within the app.) In any case, given that the company has to make payments based on when the credit card statement arrives, I think you’re absolutely within your rights to request that people follow the billing cycle. Some people might be annoyed to switch, but it won’t end up being more work for them, whereas it sounds like it *is* significantly more work for you when people don’t follow the billing cycle.

    2. KR*

      I don’t go with the statement but rather the calendar month. Sometimes if I have a lot of reciepts in the reciept tray on my desk I will do one mid month. But I don’t use my statement. All of our expenses are loaded into software and we have to upload receipts and add accounting for each charge.

  196. Anonymous Ampersand*

    Restructure in work: they’ve added a job to the structure that’s basically mine, but a grade higher.

    I have been regraded to a grade higher so there should be no problem with matching me to the job.

    So it’s looking highly likely that I’ll keep my job, but at a higher grade and higher pay (same title but I don’t really care about that).

    *Happy dance*

  197. JJ*

    I had an interview yesterday with a 7 person panel at a large university late yesterday afternoon. Before the interview, an assistant emailed me a list of the names of the people I’d be meeting with and their titles (along with other logistics). The interview went well, and I jotted down the names of everyone on the interview panel, but when I went to send thank you emails this morning, I realized one of the people must have been switched out with someone else, and I only jotted down her last name, which is fairly common. I have been unable to locate her name within the university’s website. Should I email the assistant who emailed me for this person’s name? I already emailed the other 6 people on the panel to thank them. Thanks!

    1. LawBee*

      Absolutely! Seven people is a lot of names to remember, and it shouldn’t bother the assistant at all.

    3. Anony*

      It also makes it super easy to ask since you have the last name. You can just send an email to the assistant saying that you wanted to send Dr. Johnson an email to follow up but cannot find their e-mail address.

    5. Effie, who is pondering*

      Yes.

      I have been an assistant to interview panels and they asked me for my feedback, too, and took it seriously. Plus she took care of logistics and that is an important part of the interview process.

      Good luck!

      1. Effie, who is pondering*

        Oh I misread. Yes, it’s fine to email her asking for the interviewer’s info. Make sure you thank the assistant too!

  198. TempTation*

    I keep running into situations with the same supervisor where he finds (or thinks he finds) errors that all impact his settlement negotiations, and it’s making me nervous. The first time, it was a definite error – I’d forgotten to update a date of death, and he was corrected by the other party. A small error, but still a mistake.

    The second time, he didn’t have all the information, and blew up thinking something had been coded as a zero pay when it wasn’t. It actually WAS a zero pay case, and the information he thought he needed was nothing I’d had to provide before.

    Third time, we discussed if something was a no pay or pay, he asked me a question, I gave him and answer, and that was the end of the discussion. I learned today that he decided it was a no-pay and filed the paperwork five months later – so when I sent him that case to get a payment on, it had already been dismissed.

    Individually, none of these are terrible. But they all happened within a few weeks, and I’m getting a little paranoid. No advice really needed, I just wanted to get it off my chest to a sympathetic audience.

  199. NoTalk*

    UPDATE: Forced apology and PIP

    Wow, what a hellish week!

    After being pulled out of a session at an out-of-state conference, I have been forced to issue apologies for unnamed offenses against colleagues (accused of making “disparaging comments” with no specifics) and placed on a 28-day performance improvement plan (PIP).

    The PIP is very odd in that it has no measurements for improvement beyond keeping my mouth shut and my boss hasn’t set up check-in meetings or discussed termination directly. Is this standard? My understanding was that PIPs required specific goals (reduce errors, work a specific schedule, show attitudinal adjustments, etc.). Can someone explain?

    A minor bit of good news is that my co-worker has stopped her 12-day silent treatment and is now talking with me. I had to apologize twice—once in person and once via email. To this day, I don’t know what I did to upset her so much. Our shared boss refused to have any type of mediation about it and instructed me to “eat crow” and make it right.

    I also spoke at length with HR and nearly cried when recounting how I was ordered out of a session and berated in a crowded lobby. Conveniently, she was totally unaware of all of it and seem surprised at my supervisor’s handling of the situation.

    Well, at least it’s Friday, and I have two days of peace.

    2. LCL*

      I was hoping for an update from you. I think it would be worth going to HR one more time and beg them to find out what you are doing that caused such an apparently really out of proportion reaction. Emphasize that you are only asking so you will make sure to behave correctly from here on it. It’s a shame you have to be so submissive and contrite about it all, but it may be the only way to find out more info. It also sounds like coworker went crying to boss and he acted without involving HR. My best guess is you said something that you thought was fine, and coworker heard it as nuclear offensive, and things deteriorated from there. Unfortunately that is the way too many complaints against coworkers are handled.

      Why do you think coworker is able to manipulate boss so easily? Is she a liar, or a relative, or someone else he feels totally protective about?

      1. LCL*

        …and coworker, who gave you the silent treatment for 12 days and received no punishment whatsoever? She is not your friend. Watch yourself around her, don’t give her any ammunition. Discuss sports teams and the weather if you need to have pleasant conversation.

        1. NoTalk*

          LCL:

          Yes, I agree with everything you’ve written.

          I have spoken at length with HR and beyond a general apology tour, I don’t know what else I can do.

          At this point, I’m pretending that I’m a politician who’s made a public blunder, must issue a series of public apologies, then continue to do his/her work without ruffling any feathers, at least in the short term.

          Considering how busy the organization is and what I can bring, I believe that playing it low-key and just going along to get along will eventually resolve some issues. I need this job, and in six months all the managers will be gone, with most of the staff, too.

    3. Anony*

      I don’t understand why HR isn’t telling you what happened. How are you supposed to fix a problem that you are unaware of?

      1. Anony*

        I’m not trying to imply that you actually did something. Just that this makes no sense even if you did. I don’t think you are working with reasonable people.

        1. NoTalk*

          Anony:

          Haha. You are being too kind.

          I know for a fact that these people are unreasonable. The job itself is great, especially with the fringe benefits and super short commute.

          At this point, I’m just trying to work through the situation and keep my head down.

          Wish me luck!

          1. Windchime*

            Best of luck to you. I eventually had to leave my job with great pay and a short commute because of a manager like yours. Now my commute is 3 times as long and the pay is less, but I’m much happier because my boss isn’t insane.

            I wish you well.

  200. Victoria, Please*

    Oh man, I wish I’d thought to ask this weeks ago! I am putting together a conference at my university and am seeking small sponsorships from relevant vendors (you know, $800 gets you a mention in the program, a table during the poster session, mention from the podium, etc.). But I have NO experience in how this works!!

    What do vendors *usually* want, in terms of space and attention and recognition? I want them to have a good experience working with me.

    1. Nanc*

      Does the university marketing department have an events person? They may be able to provide some guidance.

    2. copy run start*

      Usually they want perks at the event and brand promotion. When I’ve done it, it’s been something like this:

      Low tier support —
      – you get your tiny logo on flyers, posters and handouts, but not necessarily on all
      – table placed in good location at conference
      – meal included for x people

      Mid tier support —
      – even bigger logo, guaranteed to be on all flyers, posters and handouts
      – may be called out in TV and radio spots
      – prominent table placement, sometimes reduced or waived table fee
      – meal included for x+y people

      Top tier support —
      – biggest logo, guaranteed to be on all flyers, posters and handouts
      – called out on all TV and radio spots
      – recommended for media to contact in relation to event
      – bigger table, best table placement, no table fees
      – we’ll accommodate things like your 6′ solar panel display that we wouldn’t allow from others
      – meal included for all your people

      Usually there would be 1 – 3 top tier supporters, maybe 2 – 4 mid-tier with the vast majority of supporting vendors would be low tier. And price point wise, it was usually something like 1x/2x/4x for the tiers, with X being maybe double the typical fee. Your top tiers will probably want the sun and moon, so make sure it’s a price point that’s worth it. You don’t want more than a handful of them.

    3. NDR*

      On the off-chance that this event issues any kind of continuing professional education credits (CME, etc.), be sure to run your perks by someone familiar with those rules. I used to plan a lot of meetings/conferences with a medical education component and the CME rules put a lot of constraints on what companies could give away/provide or what they could be given in return for a sponsorship. Running afoul of those rules could jeopardize the credits offered and even your institution’s standing.

  201. D.W.*

    The full 2nd half of our workday was office cleaning; lunch was provided. We were told to wear extra comfortable clothes. It was actually kinda nice.

  202. Working late*

    Exempt employees: when you take intermittent FMLA, do you use PTO for partial day absences in a week where your total hours worked is under 40? What if other weeks of the month you “make up” for the hours?

  203. Nacho*

    Someone tell me if this is super inappropriate or if I’m just overreacting:

    Work has been pushing this four methods of communication personality quiz (https://blog.bretthard.in/the-four-different-personality-types-9366bfefde16) on us for a while now. Recent team meeting our boss tried to explain it to us for the fourth time, and started giving examples of famous people in each personality type. The famous person he said was a driver? Hitler.

    Is it just me, or should we try to go out of our way to avoid comparing employees to Hitler, especially with the recent upswing in Nazis? Maybe choose a different public figure as your example for fact-based extroverts, like pretty much any elected official ever?

    1. Hmm*

      Yeah, that is in totally bad form. Considering people fall in all types (I’d assume, I’ll be honest, sounds like the sort of thing I don’t take seriously so I only took a skim), the notion some employees fall in the “Hitler” category is definitely bad form.

      I’d say… inappropriate, but not necessarily *super* inappropriate (or perhaps my meter is just getting calibrated by this blog, cause I’ve seen worse here!). As long as he doesn’t do it again, I think it’s more of a foot-in-mouth situation than a huge problem.

    2. Anony*

      Yeah, that’s bad. If he had wanted to pick examples he should have picked positive examples for all personality types. Or a positive and negative if he wanted to point out how it can be good or bad. But in general I think people responsible for genocide should never be used as examples of personality types.

  204. Aaron*

    I recently changed jobs, moving from a Fortune 500 scale company to a much smaller company. I was extremely happy in my prior role, but this new place essentially made me an “offer I couldn’t refuse” – including a very substantial raise in pay and a major step up in title, where I went to a “Director” from being a “Manager”. Of note, this title was something I specifically negotiated during the negotiations around their offer – I even made sure to have it written into the offer letter that I signed. I always have had a goal of achieving a “Director” title by a certain age, so it was a huge influence in my accepting the offer, and I would not have accepted this position without the title change.

    A little after two weeks of joining, my boss (VP reporting directly to the CEO) called me. He informed me that the CEO decided that since no other leaders in the company have a “Director” title, including the company’s global manager for my area of the business, they need to change my title back to “Manager”. My boss was clearly infuriated by the CEO’s decision, but it was also clear his hands were tied.

    I recognize that even though it’s in my signed offer letter, I still probably have no recourse as an at-will employee. That said, I’ve felt a lot of regret about leaving my prior role because the new title was what sealed the deal here (my prior employer essentially said they were prepared to counter but didn’t try because they couldn’t match the title increase). I want to communicate my extreme frustration to my manager and management – as it feels like my negotiations were done in bad faith – while also balancing the fact that I’m just two weeks into the job and can’t afford to be fired or quit. If it matters, this is an international company; my office is in the US, while corporate headquarters is in Europe. Any advice for having a conversation with my manager or HR – or for how to approach the broader situation?

    1. Anony*

      What is your end goal behind expressing your frustration to your manager? I definitely understand why you are feeling it but it sounds like your manager agrees that it is shitty but can’t do anything about it. I think you should clarify to yourself what you want to achieve other than venting.

      1. Anony*

        It sounds like what you really want (keeping the title) isn’t really achievable. But maybe you can use it to negotiate something else you want. Or you can talk to your manager about what the path towards that title looks like at this company. Knowing what you want to get out of the conversation makes it more likely that it will be a productive converstation instead of setting up an uncomfortable working relationship.

    2. Drama Llama*

      It sounds like you won’t achieve your desired outcome (i.e., to have the Director title back) by talking to HR/manager. They weren’t the ones who made the decision, so I wonder what would be the purpose in communicating your extreme frustration. Two weeks into the job isn’t enough credentials to be blowing steam with your manager; and I would be concerned about coming across as someone who is whiny. (Not saying you are; but your manager has little data to judge you on and you don’t want this issue to be forming an impression on your boss about your character)

      From your CEO’s perspective, there would be legitimate business reasons for this change. Unless they’ve also lowered your salary or significantly changing your job duties, I don’t think they would see it as having negotiated in bad faith. At the time your boss negotiated with you he had no reason to think the Director title would be withdrawn. It’s bad luck that they’ve done this two weeks into your employment.

      It sucks, but I wouldn’t die on this hill.

    3. Jill*

      Why are you so hung up on the title? If the job is the same as what you expected and the money is what they offered, what difference does it make if they call you manager or director?

      1. Aaron*

        Well, primarily, I was on the Director track at a Fortune 500 company within the next few years, which is a pretty big step up career path wise. This opportunity came up as an opportunity to make that jump a little faster, which is partially why it was so compelling. Now that was taken away, it’s hard not to feel like this was a bit of a step back professionally.

        1. Jill*

          But it’s the same job, right? They didn’t take away any responsibilities, did they? They just changed your title to manager. So either they hired you as a manger but gave you the director title initially even though it wasn’t the actual position, or you actually are a director but they are now calling you a manager.

          If it’s the first case, then you weren’t really a director to begin with. If it’s the second case, you’ve achieved your goal regardless of the title.

          Maybe it’s not your intent, but you seem like you are much more concerned about the title than the job itself.

          1. MissCPA*

            I agree here. You stated nobody else in the company is a Director, so why get so hung up on the title if the responsibilities and pay is going to be the same? Take time to evaluate, because a job title is nice, but it shouldn’t be everything! Lots of companies have all different kinds of titles for the same kinds of things.

  205. FrontRangeOy*

    Is anyone familiar with YourVolunteers dot com as a platform for scheduling and organizing volunteers? Or others that are free/low cost (small nonprofit that lives and breathes on its volunteers). I’m looking or something more efficient than my current system

  206. hckilos*

    Internal interviews — is sending follow-up/thank you emails the next day okay? And if there are multiple people on an interview team, individualized emails to each one?

    I just really want this role and don’t want to not do anything that would eliminate me! Thanks!

    1. o.b.*

      Yes, the next day is totally fine. And you can send individual emails or a group one—I think it depends on how many people were on the interview team (3 people? separate emails are fine. 6 people? 6 separate emails might be overkill), as well as whether you’re sending individually tailored messages to each person or basically saying the same thing (in which case, just send one). But I don’t think either of these will make or break your candidacy

  207. Alston*

    Anyone in the Boston area have a recommendation for a book keeper? I just graduated, and have several commissions lined up. I am going to be self employed and want to make sure I am setting things up correctly/smartly. One of my former teachers said I would probably only need an hour or two a month

    1. Nanc*

      We use Quickbooks for our needs and in their support section they have Find a Local QuickBooks Expert tool. That’s how we found our bookkeeper.

  208. Drama Llama*

    I’m advertising for a senior manager role. I mentioned in the job ad to quote a reference number. That was to assess how detail oriented the applicant is. So far, only a few people even bothered sending a cover letter; and none of them have quoted the reference number.

    I wonder if I’m being too picky about the reference number thing and miss out on good candidates. But not even sending a cover letter? Is that normal these days?

    1. Nanc*

      I think it’s fine. If attention to detail is important, that starts with reading the application directions.

      One thing I’ve done on my last few postings is give a short list 3-4 items, I want to see addressed in the cover letter. I have fewer applications but much higher quality.

    2. Anony*

      I think you are asking for too much. It is like when people are told to bring an index card to an interview. You could be causing good candidates to just not apply. No one wants to jump though arbitrary hoops for a senior job. I think it is better to do like Nanc suggested and ask for specific things to be addressed in the cover letter so long as those things are actually relevant to the job and affect your ability to assess the candidate.

      1. nep*

        If sharp attention to detail is important for the job, why would asking to cite a reference number be asking for too much? OK it’s not going to be THE BEST measure of someone’s overall abilities, but I don’t see it as asking too much. Or is the issue that it’s a senior role and this is too new-graduate or something?

        1. Anony*

          I think that good candidates are going to see it as infantilizing and not apply. It is important to remember that applicants are assessing the company just as much as the company is assessing them. Asking for random things just to check attention to detail is probably not a good move for a senior role.

    3. Hmm*

      I personally wouldn’t apply for a job like that for a senior position. Those sort of “jump through hoops” things always strike me as really demeaning. I think asking them to address things in the cover letter could be better. You don’t need someone who’s a pro at filling out job applications, you need someone who is good at a job, so I’d focus on things that help you achieve that.

      1. Drama Llama*

        I’m surprised to have this taken as “jump through the hoops” or even demeaning. Many ads ask for a reference number (or to specify which job is being applied for) because hiring managers might be dealing with multiple job vacancies. It would take less time to quote a reference number than to address hiring criteria in a cover letter.

        1. Hmm*

          I suppose it depends on OP words it! I should’ve thought this out more before my comment and written a more thorough one. I was thinking back to specific *very* bad ways of phrasing this – I’ve seen ads that say “Include this if you want to be considered, otherwise you’re not going to get looked at” and other sorts of condescending things. Just saying “please include the reference number” wouldn’t be as much of a turn off.

          I do think that whether or not they include the reference number is less of an indication of their candidacy than whether or not they have a thoughtful cover letter/resume, though! And well, it is possible that it will turn off candidates who have seen the sort of phrasing I’ve seen before. The idea of “testing” job applicants always rubs me the wrong way. And the way we fill out job applications isn’t like a job – lots of people desperately looking for work are filling out a lot, and a small sentence like that could easily be missed by someone who is capable of being detail oriented at work.

    4. nep*

      See — when I read something like this I think, just how awful are the cover letters and resumes I’m sending out that I’m not getting even a nibble? Nothing.
      Wow — not one applicant has noted the reference number? That’s crazy.

    5. Someone else*

      I think including the request for the reference number, just as a test of if anyone is paying attention, is kind of…not great. At the same time, if part of your process for applications does associate a reference number for all postings and you need/want that info with each applicant’s stuff, then it’s entirely reasonable that you ask applicants to include it and also reasonable that you not consider anyone who fails to do so, as that does indicate a failure to follow instructions, and I wouldn’t want to hire them either. But if that request was only put in there as a way to weed people out, in general that kind of “test” plays a little “mind games” to me.

    6. Snow or sun? Or sleet?*

      I don’t see this as a big deal and would continue asking for this in the process. Seriously, not a big deal.

  209. Curious*

    Been working at my job for almost three months. I feel I am doing well but what’s more important is how my boss feels. What’s the best way/approach to ask your boss how you’re doing?

    1. Anony*

      Ask? Tell your boss that you want to schedule a check in to see if there are any areas you need to improve.

  210. Gina Linetti*

    I went on a promising interview this week, for a part time bookkeeping job at a local natural history museum. It felt like a good fit – the interviewer and I seemed to have an easy rapport, and she’s also a woman of a certain age – so please, keep your fingers crossed for me!

    I’ve been considering moving – a good friend has offered me a place with her, but she lives in the high desert in SoCal (400+ miles away from where I currently live), which, frankly, is not where I would freely choose to live. I really love living where I live right now, and I would hate to leave – I mean, I will if it’s absolutely necessary, but I plan to do everything in my power to make a go of it here.

    I really am trying, folks. Every week I apply for more jobs, and I go to every interview I’m offered. I comb my hair, I put on makeup, I dress professionally. So, what am I doing wrong? Besides not being twenty years younger?

    I try not to let it demoralize me, but it’s hard. When I started my job search over two years ago (!!!), I had no idea it would take so long. It’s not like I don’t know how to do anything – I have skills! I’ve been a bookkeeper off and on for over twenty years.

    Yet, I can’t find anyone who wants to hire me. So, yeah, I suppose you could say I’m demoralized. I think anyone would be in my position.

    1. nep*

      Glad you read you here, Gina Linetti.
      Completely understandable that you’re discouraged. It’s a brutal process.
      Congratulations on your resolve and resilience. You’re still at it and that is huge.
      You must be doing / offering something right if you’re getting interviews. I know it’s little consolation if thus far if no interview has yet led to an offer. But in the job search world, being called in for an interview isn’t nothing.
      Wishing you all the best. Please keep us posted.

    2. Anono-me*

      Is there reason to think that the job market is better near your friend?

      Is there someone you know who could help you practice interviewing?

      Good luck.

      PS
      I second everything Nep said also.

  211. Namechanger*

    Hey guys, so I have a predicament. I go by a nickname. For all intents and purposes, it is my name. No one, including my family, calls me by my “official” name. In fact, my mother only gave me that name because she was worried I wouldn’t like the nickname. It’s not a weird or outlandish nickname. I introduce myself by that name and everyone at the office calls me by that name. Except one person. The top boss. Now, you might think the boss has so many people to worry about that they can’t remember my correct name. Well, we are a very small company where we all know each other. I explained to them that I go by my nickname, and no one calls me by my real name. He seemed to ignore that and go on calling me the real name, even though everyone in the office says my preferred name. When I asked for advice somewhere else they acted like I was being petty for wanting to be called by my preferred name. I do not like my real name at all, and it is alien to be called by that name. Am I being unreasonable for wanting to be known by my preferred name, which, for all intents and purposes, is my real name?

    2. Anony*

      Top boss is being weird. It isn’t petty to want to be called your preferred name. That said, it may not be worth pushing back considering top boss is already being unreasonable. You are definitely right though and top boss is a jerk.

    3. Parenthetically*

      Nah, your top boss is being weird — potentially on the “quirky” end of things and not the “ARGH” end, but still. You could do the whole act confused thing, like when he calls you Melissa instead of Missy, you look puzzled and say, “Oh, I’m Missy, remember?” Or you could just roll with it and accept it as an annoying but ultimately meaningless thing, when the majority of people call you the right name.

      Have you thought about legally changing it? It’s a pain but if you feel strongly about it it might be worth the hassle.

      1. Namechanger*

        The problem is, someone else in the office has started calling me by my other name, even though I also told him to call me by my nick name. I plan to correct him next time he does it, though. It’s a little different than correcting the boss.

        I don’t plan to legally change it because, to be honest, I have never had this issue happen in my life before, and most people respect that this is the name I prefer.

        1. Parenthetically*

          Absolutely. With a coworker it’s going to be an easier road, most likely — it’s not as hard to say, “Hey, I only go by Missy, so can I ask you to only refer to me as that from this point on? Thanks so much” to a colleague as to a boss. Good luck!

  212. DressUPorDOWN*

    I am going to have an internal interview in the middle of the day a few offices down from where I currently work. My typical dress is jeans and a t-shirt. I know we’re supposed to dress up for interviews, but what’s the protocol for not being super obvious about what’s happening?

      1. DressUPorDOWN*

        I know I can change my clothes… but it’s just super awkward and super obvious that I’m being interviewed.

    3. Thlayli*

      It’s an internal interview? Why the secrecy?

      Just change in the bathroom if you don’t want to wear your work clothes all day.

    4. Anono-me*

      Dockers or black jeans.
      Nice simple shirt. ( I love silk t-shirts from Kohls or Herbergers)
      Add a blazer on the way to the interview.

      Maybe wear the nicer pants and shirt every couple of weeks, so future interview attire is not a big deal.

      Good luck.

    5. Close Bracket*

      Dark wash jeans, new, non-faded, non-logo t-shirt, carry blazer over your arm and put it on when you arrive at the office where the interview will take place. Remove blazer as soon as you exit the interview.

      If it’s on a different floor, carry a dress shirt with you and put it on over the t-shirt in the bathroom on the floor where you will be interviewing.

  213. futurelibrariannomore*

    I hope this isn’t too late!

    How do you change careers after earning a Masters in a very specific field (aka, Library Science)? When I originally earned the degree, I planned to move every few years to accommodate the industry. (Librarian jobs are difficult to come by, and to move up, you often need to move states.) Here’s the problem with that plan: I fell in love. Then I made friends. Then I built a whole life in [new city, a long way from my hometown that I hated anyways]. My current workplace is toxic, and I honestly am not willing to leave my life here for this career that I am not even sure I love anymore. (That could be toxic workplace talking, but it probably wouldn’t make a difference.)

    I’m about $50k in debt. The job market in [new city] is stable, but totally different from what I do.

    Do I get a new degree? Do I…I don’t even know. Any advice? Any librarians do the same, and have advice?

    1. H.C.*

      It depends on what aspects of library science you particularly enjoy or are well-qualified in? Could be customer service, information organization or research – for example. You can use that as a starting point to find out what non-librarian careers you’ll be well suited for (along with any number of articles about alternative career paths for MLIS grads).

      1. Library School Dropout*

        Depending on the reasons you are unhappy in your current library, you might consider applying for work in different kinds of specialized libraries such as academic libraries, medical libraries, or legal libraries.

    2. Lisa*

      You explain that while you have a degree in Library Science, you found there were aspects about it that just didn’t mesh well with the life you wanted to lead. Then you explain how the new career will fit you personally and professionally.

  214. Hmm*

    I desperately want to work remotely! Not only because I think I would love it, but also to fit my partner’s career. I’m currently planning on going back for a MS in Applied Math, which according to all the numbers would be a much better degree than what I currently have, but sometimes I worry I should go back for a Computer Science degree because I’d be able to worry remotely that way… I just like math. I don’t know, it’s so hard to go back to school as an adult… I need a better degree, but what if I pick the wrong one *again*!? Ahhh.

    1. Thlayli*

      I think the key is to figure out which degree will help you get where you want to be, not which one you will enjoy the most.

      2. Hmm*

        Ah, I apologize for not being clear. I don’t mean it in the “oh this is fun and I enjoy the schooling sense” but in the “I have done programming and math, and I’d rather have one of the careers the math degree would give” sense. It’s more so, I worry that wanting that specific career isn’t good enough? Am I just supposed to pick the degree that’s most likely to get me a job, regardless of what I want to do? I can’t understand how to balance practicality and what sort of job I want, I guess. It’s a huge financial undertaking to go back to school, and I’m sometimes worried I should just pick the thing that will 100% guarantee a job

        1. Jill*

          Here’s how I would approach it:

          1. Figure out what job/career you want.
          2. Research to see how easy/difficult it is to get into.
          3. If it seems like it’s not too hard to break into, then determine the degree you need. No degree is a 100% guarantee of a job, but there’s a big difference between a 75% chance and a 25% chance.
          4. If it seems like it would be hard to break into, then start over at 1.

          Take this for what it’s worth, which is probably nothing :)

          1. Jill*

            I forgot step 2.1 – research how much the potential jobs pay. If there’s a great chance to get a job but the pay is really low without much room for growth, it probably isn’t worth it to spend the money on another degree because you won’t get the financial return on it.

            1. hmm*

              Luckily, all the jobs pay much more than what I can currently get, so at least that part is right! I’ve researched it all, but maybe researching with more specific goals will give me reassurance, thank you!

    2. Truffles*

      Agreed on figuring out what degree will get you where you want to be. From perusing job boards over the past couple months, computer science seems to have remote work. If you want something more mathy, perhaps you might consider statistics or data science? Or applied math but with a programming focus in a language like R or Python? I’ve seen some ads for remote data scientists. Good luck!

      1. Hmm*

        I guess the problem I’m really having is deciding how much where I want to be should matter? I *want* the jobs that I can get out of the applied math degree, I just worry that there might be more jobs with a CS degree (even though well, I want those jobs less, and applied math degrees are marketable), and going back for a degree is so expensive that I’m having trouble balancing the job I think I’d enjoy and well… having a job. I’ve struggled to consistently find work in the field of my bachelor’s, and though I’ve done it, I’m terrified of ending in that situation again with even more debt.

        With a well rounded course curriculum, the applied math degree should allow me to apply to some of the similar jobs as statistics and data science, and the program I’m interested in is quite programming focused. I’ll take a look for remote data scientists adds and see what they’re looking for, thanks for that info!

        1. Jill*

          You should also try reaching out to some people who have the jobs you are interested in for informational interviews.

            1. Jill*

              Find people in the jobs you are interested – you can try company websites, linkedin, word of mouth, etc, and reach out to them. Just email and say that you are interested in what they do and want to get into the field, would they be willing to meet with you to talk about it. People are very receptive to requests to talk about themselves.

  215. Nervous Norvus*

    I wrote a couple Fridays ago about being nervous jumping back into LinkedIn/other networking & social media forays because of accepting a job position where I’m technically overqualified and that’s considered a rung lower where I should be, on paper, to anyone in the field – but which might be better considering some mental health issues I’ve been working through. Well, I just jumped back in to LinkedIn and accepted any lingering invitations, figuring it’s one of many first steps of getting back to feeling comfortable in my own skin.

    Now I’m writing thank-yous to my references (I wanted to get some days at the new job under my belt so I could share points of interest and maybe just reassure myself this is a good thing; so far, it’s a definite yes). But while I’m able to find ways to enthuse about it and tie it back to the experiences or help the references gave me, I’m wondering if it would make sense to address the lower job title (ftr only one reference asked me directly during the application process why I was looking at positions with that title). Would that act as a way of closing any potentially open questions on the side of the references, or would it really only be a reassurance for myself? (This is a relatively small field and I worked one-on-one or in small groups with them, so I’m very likely to be specifically remembered.)

    Also: Has anyone ever been a reference for an unexpected or out-of-norm career track for anyone else? Was it easy to connect the dots from when you worked with them to the position they were applying for, or did it require some creativity?

  216. Notthemomma*

    Had a few interviews lately. My dear, dear husband was amazed that they lasted an hour + each. In husbands (trucking) world it’s about 10 minutes ‘licsence current? Any violations? Can you pass the drug test? When can you start’ Obviously a bit more than that, but what a different world!

  217. Celestine*

    I’m interviewing (as in I just did 2nd in-person interviews out of 3) with 3 companies right now. One of them knows that my current job department is going under a complete overhaul with basically an entirely new staff and they emailed me, wanting a reference from someone in the newly overhauled department despite having several references my previous bosses and other people. I thought this is such an odd request especially if they knew about the overhaul then they would know that the new staff has only been in place for a week. Am I crazy for thinking that this is such an odd thing to request?

  218. The Lion's Roar*

    My toxic employee’s last day was this week. Everyone has breathed a sigh of relief since her last day. None of her previous managers would fire her despite her toxicity. I didn’t have to fire her. She couldn’t stand working for me as she actually had to do her job and their were consequences for her actions. She up and resigned. Thank you baby Jesus!

  219. Awkward social networker*

    How does one network with alumni?

    One of the most common networking advice I’ve gotten is to reach out to other alumni, but I don’t know what that process actually looks like in reality. My alma mater has a formal alumni association that hosts routine meet up events around the country, but unfortunately membership to the alum association requires a yearly fee (which I cannot afford). I’ve tried reaching out to alumni individually through LinkedIn as well, but since my school’s student population is over 60k, just saying that I went to same college with the same major isn’t enough of a connection to convince someone to speak with me.

    Am I approaching networking all wrong? Is there a way to connect with alumni that I’m just completely oblivious to?

    1. Jill*

      I don’t get it either. I’ve had a lot of people talk about how important it is for your kids to get into a college with a strong alumni network, but I have no idea how you are supposed to access it.

    2. FriendlyAlumni*

      Maybe it depends on where you went to school? I’ve had people reach out via my schools online alumni networking thing, and I’m always happy to talk with people. Is there some way you could see people who are more actively involved in those things, like who are in the alumni group on linkedin or in the schools’s alumni network social media site?

  220. MOOC_Curiosity*

    I’m thinking about doing one of the Udacity nanodegrees as a way to change careers. Has anyone succeeded in doing this? The reviews I’ve seen have been mixed, especially after the CEO change in 2016.

  221. Nemo*

    Question for everybody – I have 2 direct reports who both are allotted 3 days PTO/sick at the start of the year and then accrue five days (“1 Week”) and vacation time over the course of the year. We are in retail, which make its not so cut and dry in regards to vacation, as we’re not on a Monday-Friday schedule already. It’s a small team, and I try to be flexible with their requests because they’re both strong performers & are flexible with me in return. One of my reports needs her wisdom teeth out, but doesn’t want to use her PTO or vacation time to do so, but would need to be out Friday thru Monday to get the surgery and recover. Our payroll calendar is super funky for a business open 7 days a week (it starts Monday and ends Sunday) so technically she would have to take a PTO or vacay day on Friday. My question is – if she provides a sick note for this time, must she use a PTO day or vacation day to cover it? She is more than willing not to, as she’s saving her limited vacation time for a big trip in April. I could absolutely make this work for all of our schedules. If she can, does anyone have any insight on how I could approve her request without creating a precedent of people not taking sick time and whatnot without pay? Though their vacation time (in my opinion) is not at what it should be given the market (something I am advocating for with our upper management), its also this way because we are such a small team, and physically need bodies in the store. Thank you in advance for any advice or knowledge shared!

    1. Enough*

      If I understand what you’ve written they get 3 days sick and 5 days for vacation. For Friday it would either be a sick day or a day without pay as she isn’t working. With so few paid days off I think you may have to allow a few unpaid days occasionally. So either an unpaid day off now or with her vacation. What would you do for someone who gets sick in the latter part of the year and has no paid days left?

    2. Anono-me*

      I say do it.

      This is a zero dollars perk that you can give people.

      Also, if your team can count on you to work with them on stuff like this, the people on your team are much more likely to do what they can to give you as much notice as possible and to be as thoughtful as possible when scheduling stuff.

    3. Anony*

      I don’t really see the problem with creating a precident of allowing people to choose to take a sick day unpaid after using up their paid sick days instead of forcing them to use their vacation days. If they have a very limited number of paid days off, unpaid days off almost have to be an option.

  222. Morgan*

    I applied for a job and was recently extended an invitation to take the written exam. They sent the email earlier this week. There is an event with the secretaries in my department on the same day. The purpose is to network and build work relationships to strengthen communication and interaction. The test can’t be rescheduled. My concern is how it will be perceived if I don’t go, but I don’t want to withdraw my application. I’ve tried to advance with my current employer for a number of years and had no luck. I am now looking for those opportunities externally and have reservations about not following through.

    1. Thlayli*

      If you tell them you aren’t available at that time then you probably will be out of the running for this job but they would be total jerks to hold it against you for any other job in future. It’s s bit ridiculous that they are having the test on one specific date/time and expecting people to be available. Could be an indication that they would be a bad employer anyway.

    2. Book Lover*

      It sounds as though you have decided you need to move on. So it might look bad to miss the networking event, but you aren’t moving up in that job anyhow. I would go to the test as long as I could get the day off approved.

      1. Morgan*

        18 years and a hard worker. Last year I applied for over 10 jobs and didn’t get one. People with less or no time at the company. No support at all, so I am looking externally. The admin support in my department interact often and while appreciated, one day wasn’t required to do this.

  223. Me--Blargh*

    Oh, FFS.
    I just found a reply from an employer in my email (a marketing company) sent at 8:48 pm, that they want me to fill out an app. On the app:

    Please go to 16personalities dot com and take the personality test (a variant of the Myers-Briggs). Please share your personality type below, including the percentages. Feel free to read the description of your results and share any comments, whether you agree/disagree, etc.

    ARE YOU FOR REAL

    There’s another question below it:

    If you have previously taken other personality tests and know the results, please share them below. DISC, Enneagram, StrengthsFinder, etc.

    Yes, I took DISC; I’m an I; this is no better than a horoscope.

    Can I decline to take the first test and just post a comment and my DISC results? Because shit all over this nonsense. What’s next, are they going to ask for my sign? :P

    1. user7842*

      At my previous job (huge international consulting company) we were “strongly encouraged” to use a similar test (Strengthsfinder) and share the results. The methodology was actually much worse than the Myers-Briggs methodology.

      Yes, it’s surprising that organisations are so naive.

      1. Me--Blargh*

        Unfortunately, I don’t have any choice. They’re the only ones who have responded to me. :(

        I took the test (it was as stupid as I imagined, plus the website said I was “extraverted” :P). This is what I’m gonna put and if they don’t like it, too bad:

        YOUR PERSONALITY TYPE IS:
        PROTAGONIST (ENFJ-A)

        Well of course; I’m a Gryffindor.

        1. user7842*

          You should analyse what personality type the company expects and lie that you are exactly that type. They can’t prove you lied anyway, can they?

          If you describe the position I might be able to help.

          Btw: yes, I’m an INTJ.

    3. Book Lover*

      It sucks, but if you want the job (and can see putting up with that environment for a year while you look for something else and have a better looking resume because you are employed) I would just play the game. I am sorry :(

  224. Swirls*

    This will probably get buried but here goes!

    I work at a very small company (no HR), and my coworkers are not arranged by department. Most of us have our own offices with doors but there is a flexible work space down the hall from me that only has two walls and several desk/computer areas (it’s not the most soundproof set up). A coworker in a different department sits in that space regularly, and to get to the kitchen you have to walk by their station (they face the hallway).
    Most days there’s a fair bit of socializing between coworkers – there’s no problem with that. Most people are on their own schedules and get their stuff done. However, this particular coworker has loud, drawn out conversations that I can hear twenty feet away, even if my door is closed. There are other coworkers closer to their work area that are also bothered by this, but none are in their department. Their manager’s office is directly across from the work space but the manager keeps odd hours and there is a noticeable difference in the amount and volume of socializing when the manager is in vs when they is out.
    On top of this I know there is a personality clash between myself and this coworker – we are polite, even on friendly terms with each other but they overshare, insert themselves into conversations, and linger in the doorway well after it is comfortable to do so. There’s also resentment because of performance related issues but I’m working on getting past that because their job performance is none of my business.
    What I’m wondering is how best to approach the situation of their socializing being a very large distraction to myself and others during the work day. I absolutely do not want to talk to them about it myself. It’s not my place and they are already an anxious individual and I am not going to open that can of worms. Do I approach my manager (same level as their manager) so she can speak to their manager? Or do I go to their manager directly?

    1. Nacho*

      I used to have a similar problem sitting in front of a heavy socializer. One day, when she was being especially annoying, bugging one of our coworkers about some guy she was dating, I finally snapped and said “hey, I’m trying to work here.” It was probably a little rude, but it worked. She shut up almost instantly and got back to work.

      You say you don’t want to talk to them about it yourself, but that’s the fastest and easiest way to solve the problem: Wait until he’s having one of his particularly loud conversations, open your door and say something like “Hey, I don’t know if you realize, but you’re speaking loudly enough that I can hear you in my office, and it’s kind of distracting. Could you please keep it down?”

      Talking to either manager will make you come off like the kind of person who shies away from confrontation and can’t solve basic social issues by yourself, which you don’t want.

      1. Swirls*

        Thanks for the insight! My main concern in being abrupt like that is linked to this person’s anxiety. They frequently talk about how big a problem it is for them, the various medications they are on, and the overthinking they do with most interactions. Smaller things than being told to respect office noise levels have made them cry before and I do not have the energy to deal with that, nor do I want to be the person who made someone cry.
        I’m less concerned about coming off as non-confrontational in this specific scenario. In an ideal world a request to keep it down wouldn’t be an issue – it’s really more deciding which manager to go to.

        1. Colette*

          It’s not your job to manage their anxiety. Ask them to keep it down when they’re being loud. I’ve been on both sides of that discussion and it really is no big deal.

    2. Thlayli*

      Talk to your manager first. It’s an issue that affects your performance after all.

      Also consider headphones

    3. MissDisplaced*

      If it’s just about the volume & distraction and not so much the socializing, I’d opt to speak up politely and directly.

      “Hey Suze, not sure if you realize this but your conversations can be a little loud and the whole entire office now knows about things X and Y that are best left personal. Can you keep the volume down or keep it more private by moving it into an office or closing the door?”
      That’s being nice.

      Sometimes it’s better (and less drama) to just do in the moment: “Hey, others are trying to work here… please keep it down or move elsewhere. Thanks!”

  225. Anonymous Tribble*

    How much of a jerk move is it to apply for a promotion when you’re also looking to leave?

    Right now I’m casually looking for another job, and I don’t expect I’d start a new one until past August. I don’t even want the promotion (to team lead), but I’m applying because $$ and team lead will look better on my resume. And I know there’s only one other competitor.

    So how rude would it be to get the team lead role and then leave a few months later, making management have to go through two rounds of hiring? (One for me, one for the lead).

    1. user7842*

      Not a jerk move at all.

      I don’t even understand why anybody could think it’s a “jerk move”.

      1. Colette*

        I disagree. I don’t think you should take a job you aren’t planning to stay in for at least a year, even internally. Yes, stuff can happen after you get the job, but if your plan is to take it and then quit, that’s going to hurt your reputation – and having the job for a few months isn’t really going to help your resume much.

        1. Anonymous Tribble*

          Thanks for perspectives. I feel like it’d a bait & switch on my part. Similarly, I’m going to drag my feet on the company paying for my grad school because I don’t want to get myself indebted to them. But I’ve also seen Alison’s advice that you should be fully committed up until you have concrete plans to leave.

          As you might be able to tell, this is my first job out of college :P I’ve been here for almost three years, but they restructured and things changed drastically. Hence the slow nope away.

        2. MonkeysGoToHeaven*

          The times are changing. The duration employees stay with their companies decreases fast, year by year. Most of my friends plan switching their jobs every 1-3 years and most switch every or every other year.

          I’m not talking about McDonalds type of jobs. I’m talking about qualified jobs.

          When a survey was conducted in my company the result was that most of us considers changing jobs within the next 12 months. Although the company is quite prestigious and the unit not overly toxic. And although most of us are generation Y, not Z.

          The author thinks about changing her job. Maybe. Not earlier than in the last months of 2018. She doesn’t have specific plans yet.

          Of course she should apply for an internal position.

          1. Colette*

            Sure, she should apply – if she’s willing to stay if she gets it.

            Changing job every year works until it doesn’t. People have been saying that’s the wave of the future for years, but the fact is that there are jobs you can’t reach the next level in until you’ve been there 2 or 3 years, and there are managers who hire accordingly.

    3. Drama Llama*

      Leaving shortly after a promotion is going to be annoying. The company would have invested into training you for your new responsibilities, made appropriate announcements internally/externally, and pass up on other good candidates to appoint you into the role.

      You’re free to continue the job search and apply for the promotion. But understand this may have potential consequences on your reputation at your current work.

      1. Anony*

        I agree with this. If you are casually job searching but you want this job and would consider staying longer if you got it and it paid well enough then you should go for it. But if you don’t even really want it and you fully intend to leave in a few months, don’t apply. Job searching right after getting a promotion could off set any advantage the better title gave you on your resume anyway.

  226. user7842*

    I know I’m late to the party, but maybe someone still reads that.

    I’ve been in my current job for several months. I was employed to be responsible for the tasks in the area A in a small team. In the meantime the manager came to the conclusion the colleague responsible for area B is no good, I took over her area too. Area B is very complex and I need to learn a lot to be able to do it. As a matter of fact I spent a lot of time I’m not paid for (weekends, evenings) learning B. Area B is also normally much better paid than A.

    My salary stayed the same after I took over B.

    My current workload is extreme and I feel I’m considerably underpaid both because I control two areas now (=workload) and because I’m responsible for B. At the same time my position is still quite junior although my current role is key to the team success.

    What would you do? How quickly can I start a discussion about a salary increase and a promotion without sounding delusional? And how would you frame that?

    1. Thlayli*

      If it’s been a week already then I think that’s enough time passed to raise it. How you approach it depends on what you want. It seems like the best outcome for you would be a new person is hired to cover B and you go back to just doing A, but with a bump in pay/bonus to reflect your hard work, or else overtime payments in the meantime.

      If that is indeed what you want, I would approach it first from the perspective that of course they are going to hire a new head of B, and you are just looking for info about it, rather than asking for a raise. “What is the plan for a new Head of B? How long do you think it will be before the new person can be fully trained in?” They will probably say they are looking and give a date. if you are happy to keep doing the unpaid overtime until then, then say “I can rearrange my schedule and continue doing all the extra hours till then, but if it takes any longer than that I simply won’t be able to continue. I’m giving you a heads up on that now so you can make a plan b in case hiring takes longer than expected. In the meantime, I would like to request that I get some remuneration for the significant additional time and responsibility im doing.” Depending on how long/the mood of the room you might want to leave off that last sentence and instead just bring up your efforts at end of year review time.

      If the date they give you is too far out for you, or they say that they think you can keep doing both jobs indefinitely then say “I don’t know if you realise this, but I’m currently doing x extra hours a week to cover both jobs. I can’t continue that indefinitely. I will be able to rearrange my schedule to keep doing this till x date, but after that I will have to revert to just doing my own job. I’m letting you know now so you can make other arrangements for cover for B after that date. In the meantime, I would like done remuneration for the extra hours”

      Again judge the mood before asking that last sentence, you can always ask for it later.

      1. Thlayli*

        Oops I misread your comment and thought that A was better paid than B! So you want to end up as head of B and lose the responsibilities of A. On that case I would approach it like “I just want to check what is the timeline for a new official head of B, and confirm that I am in the running for that role? Do I have to go through any official process to become official head of B rather than acting head of B? Is there an interview or do I need to resend my resume to HR?” Hopefully they will give you a date and Info on what needs to happen. If you can handle doing both jobs until the date, and getting the application in at the same time then I think you should just suck it up and go for it. However if they give an indication that they want you to keep doing both jobs say something like “I don’t know if you realise but I’m currently doing x hours extra a week to keep up with both roles. I’m rearranging a lot of non-work responsibilities to do these extra hours. Obviously that’s not sustainable long term. I will have to revert to just doing one job by x date, so we will need a new person in either A or B role by then. I would prefer to keep the B role, assuming I get a commensurate bump in salary, but if that’s not possible I’ll just go back to doing A. But I really need to go back to just doing one job by x date.” They will need sone time to think about it and talk to HR. You want to give them that time so they come to the logical conclusion to keep you as B and find someone else for A.

        If they tell you they are looking for someone but the date they give is NOT sustainable for you, ask if they can hire a temp to help you with A so you can focus on B while the hiring process continues.
        Good luck.

        1. user7842*

          Thanks, but I’m quite sure there are no plans to employ a specialist for B. They just assume I will be responsible for both A and B.

          And that’s ok! But not with my current salary.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      I think you need to stop doing work in your own time – don’t conceal how much you have to do. This is one of those times when unfortunately you may have to fail a bit to be taken seriously.

  227. Unsure*

    Hi all,

    I would like to get your thoughts on a couple of things…will I look like a job hopper if I leave my current job? I work in accountancy and my CV would look like:

    (i) 3 years training (accountancy) followed by 1 year our for travelling
    (ii) 1.5 years in Big 4 accountancy firm
    (iii) 5.5 years in industry (internal promotions)
    (iv) 1.5 years in current role

    Just worried with two of my roles of 1.5 years but probably overthinking. Also if I left to go back to my previous company in (iii) but with a higher role than I previously did there (sideways compared to my current role) does it look odd or look like I failed at my new role?

    I really dislike one of my current bosses’ approach and he is very aggressive/confrontational although he would see it as robustly challenging people’s ideas. It doesn’t fit with my approach. Does anyone have any suggestions how I can try to avoid this in future companies and what I could ask in interviews to try to find out?

    1. Anonymous Tribble*

      You have five years in between the 1.5 year jobs? You’re fine.

      If you go back to Old!Company, (a) congrats, they must really like you :) (b) if anyone asks you, you can accurately say that it wasn’t what you thought. You’d move up in position, so it’s not like you came home with your tail between your legs. You got experience somewhere else, and now you’re using it to come back stronger and better.

  228. metronomic*

    A question about promoting an internal candidate to fill an open position on my team:

    My boss Sally (senior director level), and myself, are interested in seeing a member of my team, Alice, promoted to a manager position that recently opened up. It would require mentoring and coaching on my part and I am more than willing to do this for Alice. The job has been posted for a couple of weeks and we’ve only had few applicants, none of whom have direct experience in the work, so Alice is currently the most qualified.

    It took some encouragement from me for Alice to express interest in the manager role, but she seemed reassured when I told her I was committed to coaching her and helping her gain manager skills through training programs, etc. My senior director Sally was happy to hear that Alice is interested. The issue is that Sally wants Alice to apply and go through the interview process. She thinks it will provide some professional experience for her and she’ll feel like she really earned it. On the one hand, I agree with that logic. On the other, it seems like we’re making Alice jump through hoops when it’s kind of a done deal to promote her.

    What is normal in a case like this? Should I push back on my boss and say I’d prefer to promote Alice without an official interview process? What would I say to make my case?

    And if I do put Alice through an interview process, how do I have a not obviously fake interview process given the reality that she’s likely to be promoted? What is normal protocol with regards to having our team involved in interviewing her, since she’s already on the team? Is it normal to have different interview questions for someone already on the team vs. and external candidate? And I assume Alice then can’t be included in the team interviews for external candidates, right?

    Thanks!

    1. Colette*

      It shouldn’t be a done deal. You should interview her and the other qualified applicants and make your decision. You don’t have any better qualified applicants yet, but what if someone great applied tomorrow?

      On the other hand, if Alice is going to get it no matter who applies, your interview should be probing how she is going to approach the role. You can coach, but you want someone who has her own ideas – you can’t direct everything she does.

  229. Whiffed my Review*

    Our written annual reviews were due two weeks ago. My boss, who works remotely, had our team schedule our in person review this week. When my meeting started, I realized he had not read any of my comments in advance (our review process doesn’t ask the manager to submit written comments before the meeting). We lost a lot of discussion time so he could read my answers before responding. I got a lot of short answers for my successes, challenges, and goals, i.e. “That’s right,” “Spot on,” “I agree.”
    There are a few questions in our review that give room to talk about what your manager or the executive team can do to help you do better at your role. I asked questions about skills to demonstrate and the path to getting promoted. I also asked about setting a mission for our team (Manager agreed one of the challenges for our role is we are asked to build and paint teapots even though we are supposed to fix broken teapots) to help focus our work and communicate outwards what the role of my position is. I also asked if we could set measurable objectives for our team on teapot-fixing so we could track how well we are doing (or not!). He responded by asking me who should set those goals – do I want to do it, do I want leadership to do it. I totally blanked because with the way he phrased it, he was leaving himself out of the equation. Since he is our supervisor and since he is not in the office with us for a lot of the day to day things we work on, I wanted his input and was not sure what to do when he was eliminating himself as the doer or decision maker on this.
    Should I ask him for another meeting to talk about the ongoing questions not addressed in the review?

    1. Enough*

      I don’t see him opting out, isn’t he part of leadership? Yes to another meeting. But what are you trying to accomplish? Do you want him to make a whole lot of decisions that you follow or do you want to have some input? I would come with some ideas (solutions) for your questions. Show him you are invested in improving you and your position and the team.

  230. Coalea*

    Just a vent about my current work situation. I’ve been a valued member of Team X for 5 years and was being groomed to take over as Team Lead. However, the company decided to reorganize and now I’m supposed to devote 50% of my time to Team X and 50% to Team Y, and the opportunity to advance seems dead in the water. Team Y deals with a highly technical subject that I’m not well versed in, and the client is especially demanding. Everything was looking really promising and now it sucks. My line manager seems to agree with me but the decisions come from above. I’m wondering if I should start job hunting, and I’m totally dreading it.

    1. Irene Adler*

      Short answer: yes, you should start the job hunt. Why let others (like the company) determine your plans for advancement?

      Did the line manager give you any info regarding new opportunities for advancement given the company reorganization? Do those look attractive to you?

  231. The Curator*

    I didn’t see it here. Are you a team member or does the team report to you?
    “do I want to do it?”
    Do you have the authority to implement or do you just create?

    Sounds like a leadership opportunity.

    “I also asked if we could set measurable objectives for our team on teapot-fixing so we could track how well we are doing (or not!).
    “He responded by asking me who should set those goals – do I want to do it, do I want leadership to do it.”

    Here is your answer. Your supervisor didn’t even prepare for your eval meeting. Create a document outlining the goals/deliverables/time line that are quantifiable. Send an email stating your objectives with a summary and a document. Request a a meeting with your supervisor to review and get approval for implementation. (and authority to do so)

  232. Mimmy*

    What version of Microsoft Office is most common these days? Also, what OS (Windows vs. Mac). Do employers even care as long as you have experience in general in a given program?

    I want to take some online courses to refresh my software skills so that I can start finding a job better suited to my interests. At home, I use an iMac desktop with Office 2016; at work, I use Windows 10 with the students (I don’t know what Office version) and Windows 7 on my office computer (soon to upgrade to Windows 10). I used to be really good with MS Office when I was doing administrative work, but as my career path changed, those skills slipped away and would love to get some of it back.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      This is really sad, but my company still uses Microsoft Office 2007! AND they are a multinational tech company!
      So lame. I think anything prior to Office 2013 is considered really old now. But you’d really want Office 365 (2016 is newest version I believe) if you’re taking classes.

    2. Observer*

      Windows is far, far more common than Mac. Newer computers all come with Windows 10, most older ones are on Windows 7. Very few businesses are using Windows 8.

      Office? Not sure. A lot depends. But if you’re solid with 2016, you’ll be fine. Employers with the latest versions are more likely to care if you know the latest version than the reverse.

  233. Jacquelyn*

    Career change question. I’m 46, make six figures, single, no dependents. My company has decided to decrease my salary 13%. Long story short, I demoted myself to another roll that pays less (less stress) in fall 2017 & now 6 months later we’re having “the talk” to cut my salary. This is not acceptable to me. However, I under-stand management’s position, that I am being paid outside of the salary range for the roll that I’m playing. After thinking about it, I proposed a value proposition to the manager and offered in addition to my responsibilities to offer training to those with less experience. I think that this is a very, very valuable asset. I’ve been in the industry for a very long time. I work well with people and would love to have an opportunity to pass along my knowledge and experience and help others learn the tools of the trade. They said they would think about it and get back to me.

    Meanwhile, I’m taking night classes to study to become a certified financial planner. I have about a year left. I have a little bit of emergency savings saved up and I’m contemplating to take the leap and make the career change. Start out entry-level, with likely a 50% decrease in pay. I don’t expect to be making the same amount.

    I’d like to keep my current job, at my current pay, for at least another year until I can get my CFP certification completed. Are there any other value propositions that you can think of that would add value and justify my 13% higher pay?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      This is a tough one. I see where they’re coming from. You took a lower position which (typically) has a lower salary range then what your old position did. Without knowing exactly what the roles and market you’re in is… I’d say 13% seems fairly reasonable (but maybe not if you’re still logging lots of hours). I know that kind of sucks, but 13% less if you’re making 6 figures, still sounds like a pretty good place to be until you ride out your classes for the next year.
      The training you’ve proposed might work if the value of that additional work is equal to the 13% of your salary you want to keep compared to what they might have paid an outside consultant. It’s a good proposal, provided it’s needed, and doesn’t require tons of extra hours on your part.
      I think I would keep along those lines. What is it YOU can do that otherwise they would have to bring in a consultant to do?

    2. Colette*

      If you’re outside of the pay range for the role you have, you’re not in a good position. You’re getting paid less in exchange for less stress – that’s not unreasonable. And offering to train – when that’s not your job – isn’t necessarily going to make it worth overpaying you, since then you will not be doing your regular role. Do trainers make the amount you’d like to make?

      I know what’s in it for you – what’s in it for them?

    3. Jill*

      You voluntary moved to a lower level position that you say you knew would play less. It took them 6 months to get around to adjusting your pay. IMO you should just be happy you continued to get your higher pay for this long – they should’ve reduced it when you took the position.

    4. Chriama*

      Is there any overlap between the work you did before and what you do now? I think offering to pick up some of the responsibility you initially put down would be another option. How much can you pick up without increasing your stress to the level where you might as well still be in the old position?

  234. LostInTheStacks*

    A little late to the game here, but I just started writing a cover letter and realized I had a question! I’m a grad student in my final semester, and I’m hoping to get a job out of state. I’m wondering, though, if it’s smart/reasonable to mention my potential start date in my cover letter. I’m worried that applying to A) an entry-level position, which might fill quickly, B) in another city C) while still in school might get my resume thrown right out. However, because of the way my schedule works, I’m available to actually start working three weeks before most students would be able to.

    Should I bring this up in a cover letter? And, if so, how? I’m already planning on mentioning that I’m moving to the city no matter what, and that I’m available to drive down for in-person interviews, but it seems a little presumptuous to say “I’ll be in your area for an interview on X date and by the way you can hire me really soon after that!”

    1. kmb*

      If you’re worried about it, I think you could mention it! Could you add it to the “I’d be very interested in an interview part” where you give your contact info? And just say, “I’m already planning a move to city by X date, when I will have completed on-campus requirements for my degree, and would be excited to chat by phone by Y date, or drive in for an interview by Z date, when my classes are over” or whatever the case is!

      Good luck! I’m also in my final actual semester – of a masters program :D

  235. Eleanor Shellstrop*

    Hi everyone!

    I know this is a bit late for this thread, but I was hoping you could help me out. I applied for a job last week and received this email back: “Thank you for writing such a thoughtful cover letter! Am reviewing resumes and will be back in touch should an interview make sense. In any case, will hold onto your resume.”

    Is this something I should reply to? I was honestly just touched that she called my cover letter thoughtful.

    1. Jill*

      No. It’s an acknowledgement they received your resume, and they will contact you if they want to move forward.

      1. Eleanor Shellstrop*

        That’s what I thought, but I am in “overthinking job applicant” mode so I wanted a second opinion. Thanks!

  236. Just another city girl*

    This came up rather suddenly and I didn’t want to wait until next week’s open thread, so I hope people are still reading this.

    Basically, I was let go from my job pretty suddenly. A former colleague told me she might have a position for me. But I might want to take my career in an entirely different direction. Since she was higher up than me when we worked together I didn’t really know how to decline gracefully. It’s definitely not a sure thing, but I feel like it would be wrong to lead her on if I’m sure I don’t want it. I’m also waiting to hear back about an opportunity that would send me out of the country for a year, so I definitely can’t agree to a permanent role until I know for sure. She’s sending me a job posting this week, so can anyone provide me a script to say basically “thanks for your kind offer but on second thought I would rather pursue a different direction” that leaves the door open for future conversations? I don’t want to seem ungrateful.

    1. Chaordic One*

      The “thanks for your kind offer” is good, but I wouldn’t say anything about, “I would rather pursue a different direction.” Instead, you might consider saying something along the lines of:

      “This happened so suddenly and I’m still trying to process it. I need to take some time to reassess my options and how to move forward and I’m just not ready to go back to work just yet. Maybe at some time in the future, but not just now. I hope you’ll still consider me for a position in the future when I’m ready.”

      Hopefully, the AAM commentariat will have some ideas on how to better say that.

  237. Allen*

    I’m middle-management at a government department. I let it slip to one coworker that I trusted (but he’s a subordinate), that a different coworker was being watched to see if management could fire him. I don’t know if the other coworker told the target or not, but it just came to light those two coworkers were closer than I thought.

    I realized right after I said it I should not have. Of course it’s too late to take it back. If the target hears about it and I’m identified as the source of the leak, am I going to be in the line of fire as well? I did overhear my boss tell another person (also a subordinate) the same thing, so maybe that’s why I let it slip. Still bad, I know and I’ve learned my lesson. I’m just wondering if what I did is a fire-able offense?

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