open thread – March 16-17, 2018

by Alison Green on March 16, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. jaybh*

    What benefits does your employer offer to promote employee retention? Particularly, are there benefits that specifically help retain/are more attractive to good employees? My workplace offers some great benefits, but it seems to me that they would be just as attractive to an average/mediocre employee as an exceptional employee. I’m curious whether that’s simply the nature of the typical benefits offered by employers, or if there are ways to specifically promote the retention of above average employees through passive means such as benefit programs.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        My workplace offers non-matching 401K contributions. They will contribute 6% whether you contribute anything or not. There’s no vesting. There are lots of people who stay for that benefit alone, because it makes it really easy to hit that recommended 10-15% savings or whatever it is we’re aiming for these days.

        1. FJ*

          My company matches a lot on 401K. I put in 12%, they put in 10%. Some people refer to it as the “golden handcuffs” but it is pretty great. Our salaries are not great as much, but the 401k is quite nice.

          2. Bigglesworth*

            My old company did this. They higher I contributed, the more they matched up to 10%. For a while there, I was contributing 15% and they contributed 10%. My salary was not much (seriously low – about half of other universities), but doing that means I have a nice nest egg for someone in her mid-20s. They also didn’t require any time for vesting, which was another bonus.

        3. Gatomon*

          Mine does too! 4% of salary with no match required. Vests immediately, but you do have to wait a while to be eligible. I do appreciate being able to have something going towards retirement while I’m dealing with student loans.

      2. Clever Name*

        YES! I recently got divorced and I had to get insurance through my company. My company pays 100% of the employee premium. It was like getting a $3,000 raise.

      3. I Love JavaScript*

        This was huge at my last company. They paid 100% for all employees, their spouses, and dependents. It’s hard to find similar packages, so people definitely stayed for it.

      4. Life*

        Employer covers 100% of everything – health, dental, vision, life, long and short-term disability premiums and 401k account management fees…..and match 20% of our 401k contribution. One new perk for good employees (as determined by your manager) is a fully paid 1 month sabbatical to “recharge, do charity/missionary work, etc. this company is privately owned and in the US.

        Yes, I have fallen into a pot of jam.

      5. Anon This Time*

        Employer covers 100% of everything – health, dental, vision, life, long and short-term disability premiums and 401k account management fees…..and match 20% of our 401k contribution. One new perk for good employees (as determined by your manager) is a fully paid 1 month sabbatical to “recharge, do charity/missionary work, etc. this company is privately owned and in the US.

        Yes, I have fallen into a pot of jam.

    2. ExcelJedi*

      We get up to 20 days vacation (plus our 13 sick & personal days) based on longevity. We all start off with 10 days in our first year, and get an extra day each year until we his the 10 year mark.

      Other than that, and vestment for our 401k plans, everyone has the same benefits whether they’ve been here 3 months or 13 years. That’s the only way I’ve ever experienced retention-minded benefits.

      1. Comms Girl*

        This doesn’t actually sound like a great vacation policy to me at all, to be honest!

        1. Kj*

          Agreed. I think starting at 10 days off is pretty bad. I think 15 days is the low water mark for me. I wouldn’t consider working for a company that offered less if I had a choice. And hitting a HIGH of 20 isn’t great either. Especially in fields where the burn out rate is high.

          1. Delphine*

            My company does 15/20/25 based on longevity, at 0/3/5 years. The days aren’t accrued, you get them all on January 1st, and that’s what really made it a good deal for me. The other places I’ve worked in the US did 10 days accrued and it took forever to bank enough to take a good amount of time off.

        3. ExcelJedi*

          I don’t know – or maybe I just haven’t worked in the right companies. We total 23 discretionary days off including holidays in our first year (10 vacation, 8 sick, 5 personal) plus 10 paid holidays, which is pretty good by US standards in privately owned companies, at least as far as I’m aware.

        4. JamieS*

          If it’s an American company sounds decent to me. Not amazing but not bad. If the additional 13 days is also are the first year so 23 days total that’s pretty good.

      2. A.M.*

        That sounds terrible. I started at 28, and just went up to 30 this year, not including unlimited sick days.

        1. Librarygeek*

          You get a *month* of vacation to start? That’s amazing. I also get 10 days (two weeks) and it’s considered standard.

    3. Who the eff is Hank?*

      My employer doesn’t offer specific benefits to exceptional employees, but is way more flexible and accommodating for them. For example, exceptional employees may be able to swing an extra day or two of PTO if something comes up after they’ve used their allotment (not like you can plan a whole extra vacation, but taking a day off for a family wedding is fine). I’m moving to a different state in June and my company is making an exception on remote work for me (the official policy is Remote Work Is Not Done Here) because they trust that I can manage my own workload and get stuff done.

      1. einahpets*

        This has been my experience as well and something I was definitely keyed into in my most recent job search. I never asked directly the question on whether I would get to work from home, but other employees who reported to the hiring manager told me about their reasonably flexible work arrangements.

        I am not looking for a job where I get to work from home all the time or slack off. But on the flip side, I have had the unpleasant experience of a manager who puts more emphasis on butts-in-seats than needed in our industry.

      3. Sophie Grace*

        This is a great reward system that steps away from everyone gets to have the same as everyone else. While it is important to provide incentives within the confines of the law, I like this idea. For example, while my co-worker is on Facebook, perhaps if i get my work done early, I can leave early.

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      Hmmm, interesting.

      My employer does employee of the month (and I think there’s a small cash or gift card prize associated with it), but to me the people who get picked are always the ones who are willing to stay really late, and overlooking hyper-efficient employees who get out the door on time and do the work so well that they help their teammates get out of the office faster, too!

      1. Drama Mama*

        Suuuuucks. My husband has been that guy. Finishes his work + does half of Billy’s and Joan’s and it’s Susan who gets kudos for working past 5 pm. Once on a four person team, he did all the work assigned to him for that 2 week chunk, then helped all three other coworkers with theirs, and on the day of the deadline he left at (GASP!) 5 pm *to attend his brother’s wedding that night* and was dinged for “not being a team player”
        He left three weeks later because he reached out to an old boss at a new company and they snapped him up.

    5. ZSD*

      Are you suggesting offering different benefits packages to people who perform at different levels? I don’t think I’ve ever heard of that. Benefits are generally standard across a company, to my knowledge. (Well, sometimes companies have one set of benefits for blue-collar workers and a better set for white-collar, unfortunately.) I think employers usually just provide higher salaries to better performers.
      I guess some companies provide more *perks* to better performers, like being allowed to telework more often.

      1. jaybh*

        Other than merit based raises, I don’t think offering different benefits based on performance would be a good idea. This question come to mind because I realized that most, if not all, of the benefits my employer provides would be just as attractive to a bad/unproductive employee as a high-performing employee. I suspect that the main way to deal with below average employees is through management, but I was just curious if there were ways of doing it more passively that I hadn’t considered.

      2. Aleta*

        My company’s benefits package is union, so set in stone, but from what I’ve read on this site it seems a lot of people negotiate things like more vacation and better 401k matches the same time they negotiate salary, so it seems to be a thing?

      3. Florida*

        It is very common for employers to offer different benefits based on length of employment. That helps retention, but it doesn’t differentiate between average employees and A+ employees. Many companies offers increased PTO with each year, and you have to stick around for a certain length for your 401k to be fully vested.

      4. Alice*

        It’s not always the case that the white-collar benefits are better. Where I used to work, the union had negotiated so that its members did not pay for their health insurance. Managers did pay. Probably a pretty unusual situation though!

      5. Specialk9*

        Our bonuses are based on performance evaluations and grade (level).

        So in the offer letter they say the bonus is X% of your salary (5%, 10%, 15%, etc based on head)… But per the fine print of this guide that you don’t get to see when signing, it turns out to be X% x 100% for exceeds expectation, X% x 80% for meets expectations, X% x 50%, etc.

        Though in 5 years we’ve only gotten a bonus once, so, enh.

    6. ChrysantheMumsTheWord*

      Reimbursement for educational development.

      It helps attract and retain individuals that want to continue to grow, learn and improve while they are with us and it promotes a culture where we strive to promote from within.

      2. Thlayli*

        Yup, this is really the only thing I think you could justifiably offer to one person but not another.

        My company will cover costs of training, subject to managers approval, so a poor employee would be less likely to get it approved. Other companies will reimburse training only if it’s directly relevant to your role and only after you pass the course. Also for careers where you can be chartered or otherwise found to meet a standard some companies give a raise or a bonus or similar – my old company gave an automatic £1000 per annum raise when you became chartered as well as paying the application and membership fees for professional organisations.

        Paying for people to attend conferences in nice locations is also a nice unofficial benefit you could consider.

        1. designbot*

          Yep, this is how we do it too. There’s a standard reimbursable for education that’s offered to everybody, but you have to apply for it. If it’s local/cheap, we’re pretty flexible on what we consider relevant to your job—pretty much any type of creative class would qualify. However if you want to fly somewhere for a special workshop or conference, if it’s directly relevant and we can see how it will benefit the company, we can just put the travel on our company credit card miles so that your educational dollars can stretch further.

    7. KatieKate*

      Opportunities for advancement and professional growth. Offer incentives to go to conferences and other places to learn skills. You may lose a few people, but the people that stay will be able to grow

    8. Rebecca*

      Very timely; we just lost the 5th employee from my small office group (18-20 people) to a rival company in the last 6 years. They have better pay and better time off policies, plus more paid holidays. My employer does zero to combat this. Now they will hire someone inexperienced and those of us who are left will have to train them, and the cycle will continue. They are so focused on the bottom line money that they have lost sight of the cost of hiring and training new people.

      1. Irene Adler*

        Gee! Similar here. Bottom line all the way.

        Management has actually taken away benefits (pension plan, life insurance coverage, long-term disability insurance, health coverage for spouse & dependents).

        Unfortunately few have left. But several are trying…..

        1. Rebecca*

          They reduced our paid holidays from 10 to 6, nitpick about time off, micromanage, and then wonder why people want to leave. We also pay for our own generous $200/week short term disability program, but if you have employee/spouse insurance coverage, you’d net about $79 a week, before taxes, after paying for your portion of health insurance. Gee. I think you need to have an HR round table about that.

    9. lisalee*

      My particular department is really flexible about taking time off and scheduling things like doctor’s appointments on short notice, which I love. I do a particularly specialized job (and well, I think) for not a lot of money, so perks like that are huge to me. Our insurance is also great.

      We used to have an *awesome* employee wellness plan (lots of different, low-stress programs from eating veggies to meditation to smoking cessation, you got $50 each time you completed a program, and it didn’t ask you to enter your health info). They did away with it this year for a more run-of-the-mill program where you enter your weight, diet, etc and it gives you a health score and suggests programs. It now feels pretty invasive and is a huge bummer.

      Personally I’m now job searching because of money-related things, but also because my employer does not invest in personal development for my position grade. I think I would stick around longer if they were willing to throw some money at me to take things like computer courses, courses on our particular weird field, etc. I think that’s a benefit that does appeal more to high performers, or that could be offered based on performance.

      2. Flinty*

        Yes to flexibility! And that’s something you can offer more of to high performers, plus it’s basically free. I just changed departments to one where my supervisor is flexible about stuff that comes up, and I’m already so much happier just from not having to prepare for a huge back and forth about why I need to leave 30 minutes early to go to the doctor.

    10. Justin*

      Tuition reimbursement for affiliated schools (we don’t work on campus but are school employees).

      And yes, it’s for everyone. But if you lose your job, they won’t reimburse, so it’s incentive to excel (at least it is to me).

      1. Irene Adler*

        Because short-term, that just takes away from owner’s profits. And when owner’s are only thinking short-term, well, you get what you don’t pay for.

    13. Dovahkiin*

      5 weeks of PTO
      10% 401k match
      charitable contribution match up to $1000
      an excellent PPO health plan
      monthly public transportation pass
      tuition reimbursement
      $2k a year in professional development per employee

      and (it varies by manager) wfh flexibility.

        1. jaybh*

          That’s a good example of the sort of thing I had in mind. Presumably good employees would be more invested in the overall success of the company, so the ability to purchase stock would be more attractive to them than it would be to someone who is just there for the paycheck.

          1. Cristina in England*

            I strongly disagree with this. Plenty of excellent employees either can’t or don’t want to buy stock in their employer. Plenty of excellent employees are invested in maintaining their own reputation and deriving satisfaction from a job well done and this is completely separate from how much or little they are invested in the company’s success.

            I think I’ve taken against this comment so strongly because it smacks of that attitude where employees are supposed to be “loyal” to the company but the company does not want to return the favor. Forgive me if this last part is off base.

        2. Dovahkiin*

          I work for a payments company in Denver, CO. Tech hiring is very competitive here – the unemployment rate for some jobs in the tech industry is as low as 1%.

          My partner works for a smaller tech firm in the area and the benefits are very similar.

          2. Gatomon*

            Maybe this explains why we’ve lost a few tech people to the Denver area. Our benefits are good, but not that good.

    14. Jen*

      I thought these types or ‘survey’ questions weren’t allowed here anymore (because too many comments)? Or just discouraged?

      (Not criticising this post just confused as to what is permitted here on Fridays.)

      1. jaybh*

        Oops, I was unaware of this. If this question is too broad, I can narrow the focus specifically to benefits that are more attractive to good employees than mediocre employees. Looking at the benefits my company offers, it seems that they would be equally attractive to bad employees as good employees. I wasn’t sure if that was just the nature of employer offered benefits, or if there are certain benefits that specifically attract better employees (a few people have mentioned reimbursement for education/professional development, which I think falls into that category).

    15. Ashley*

      Superstars who have been here long term can get a more generous PTO then the official policy and more flexibility with hours. This does cause issues with other employees making snide comments from time to time.

      1. Grandpa grumble*

        Quite right too. If flexibility is possible everyone should benefit.

        “Stars” should get promotions and cash bonuses.

        1. Flinty*

          Yes, a certain level of flexibility should be given to everyone when possible! Ie, no eye rolling and arguing when an employee needs to use their sick time or whatever.

          However, I work in nonprofits where it’s genuinely not always possible to get bonuses or even promotions, if the org is too small. I think it’s fair that higher performers (who are presumably more productive) get more leeway on taking time off or teleworking than others whose performance might indicate that would make them even less productive.

        2. Specialk9*

          Disagree. Flexibility is nice for everyone, but is definitely a perk for high performers. “I don’t care, just get the job done” is something you can tell a high performer.

        3. Perse's Mom*

          High performers should get what *they* find beneficial (within reason), if their employer wants to keep them.

          I don’t care about promotions, but it sure would be nice to modify my schedule.

    16. Plant Mama*

      As part time, you accrue up to 30 hours of sick time and 40 hours of vacation time. If you’re full-time you get 52 hours of sick time and 90 hours of vacation time. It raises each year for both part and full time. This is also a retail job, where most places don’t even offer anything. I should also note that at my store we have around 20 employees and 10 are full time, so it’s not impossible to become full time.

    17. Earthwalker*

      To offer a benefit to exceptional employees wouldn’t you have to have some benefit that is awarded on an as-appropriate basis? I would think that’s probably greater time and work-from-home flexibility. Those are benefits that say “we trust you” and that can be awarded to the best and not necessarily to the rest. OTOH, if you don’t offer competitive salary and healthcare for everyone in general, top job candidates who have multiple offers may select other companies.

      1. jaybh*

        That’s basically what prompted the question for me – most benefits are more or less equally attractive to good and bad employees alike, so you want to offer good benefits to increase your candidate pool. Everyone likes a good health plan, for instance. I was curious if there were benefits that companies offered across-the-board that specifically were more attractive to good employees.

          1. jaybh*

            Eh, I don’t think this is the way to go. While I’ll always be happy to take more money, other benefits like PTO and flexibility are bigger factors in my job satisfaction. A company that offers a good, comprehensive benefit package sends the message that they care about their employees’ overall well-being, and not just their productivity. A company that tries to attract candidates simply by offering more money sends the message that they only care about the job you can do, in my opinion.

        2. Cristina in England*

          Why don’t you just offer benefits that are attractive to anyone and everyone, and focus on hiring and retaining great employees with good management? Prevent the mediocre ones from coming in and allow managers to fire people when they aren’t performing.

    18. Jessie the First (or second)*

      Extreme flexibility. As in, I can pretty much work from home whenever I want; I can come in late/leave early whenever I need. I have a very reasonable billable hours target each month (I’m an attorney) and so as long as I am on top of my caseload, communicating regularly with everyone, they don’t care where I physically am when I am doing my work. (I’m usually in the office, but I work from home several days a month and I never stress if I am running late and have an errand in the morning and don’t get in until 10, for example.)

      I have a lot going on in my life outside of work and this flexibility is the number 1 reason I like my employer and want to stay.

      1. thunderbird*

        Our office was just offered the option of compressed work week (work extra 30 minutes a day and get an additional day off every 15th day). They are offering this as a response to overwhelming feedback on requests for more flexibility. However, if you agree to it there is no other flexibility because this is “so generous” and the expectation is that you will book all of your appointments on your day off, except for extreme circumstances. Somehow this policy to provide flexibility is actually creating more rigidity. Sigh.

        1. Jessie the First (or second)*

          Oh for pete’s sake, that’s awful, sorry! That’s not flexibility, that’s just a different rigid schedule than the current rigid schedule. I think the Big Bosses missed the point!

        2. anonymous office worker no. 51923*

          My coworkers and I are constantly joking/talking about how we would jump at the opportunity to do four 10-hour days and have a three day weekend every week. That would be sweet. What you describe, thunderbird, sounds absolutely counter-intuitive. I can’t wrap my head around it.

          1. JHunz*

            I’ve actually done the 4/10 thing and it was indeed awesome. I would only recommend it with a short commute, though, otherwise your four days on are really really long.

    19. Folklorist*

      EXCELLENT medical benefits. 100% employer-paid premiums, no deductible, $25 co-pay with free preventative care, generous sick leave, discounted gyms all over the city. We’re at a pretty small non-profit and don’t get the best pay, but this benefit is a huge incentive for me to stay–even my friends at big companies with more generous plans don’t get these, and I definitely consider it a boost in my pay.

      1. Folklorist*

        OH, and seconding the extreme flexibility. Work from home, come in/leave whenever I want as long as I get my work done on time and it’s high quality. My boss is extremely understanding about personal issues and very big into work-life balance. That means that I’ll move heaven and earth to get done what we need to get done when it comes to stressful crunch times and not think twice about it.

    20. Elizabeth West*

      If you want to keep me, offer me generous PTO. By generous, I mean don’t make me wait a whole fricking year to take any paid time off, and accrued time beats a straight two weeks any day.

      And good health insurance, including vision and dental. The more you cover, the happier you’ll make me.

      I don’t care much about 401K; I can’t seem to stay at a job long enough to make it worthwhile, and Exjob is the only one I’ve had that paid enough to allow rollover. OldExjob forced us to get 401Ks and I was pissed–I knew I wouldn’t stay forever, and sure enough, I had to cash it out and pay a damn penalty. I didn’t make enough to contribute and when I got laid off, it was below the rollover amount. I’d rather you just paid me well enough so I could put money in my own account. I will never be able to retire anyway thanks to massive student loan debt.

    21. Florida*

      My company has insane benefits to keep salespeople (which doesn’t include me). This is a product where people are constantly buying more of it and upgrading. Let’s say a sales rep sells a widget to Johnny. Then every time Johnny comes back and buys more, the original sales rep gets a portion of the commission (even if he was not the sales rep for the additional sales).
      Also, the sales reps get a portion of the commission for all sales reps that they recruit.
      It gets to the point, where you almost can’t afford to leave.
      I’m not a sales rep though, so those benefits don’t apply to me.

      *As I re-read this, it’s sounds a little bit like MLM. It is not. This is a real career. Our sales reps get salary/benefits plus commission. They don’t have to buy their own products or hustle their friends.

    22. Bagpuss*

      We offer a bonus scheme which is linked directly to performance, but I’d see that more as part of the remuneration package than benefits.

      I think benefits are mostly part of the over all package of being employed by a specific company, and that most of the things you can do which reward or attract better employees are not things that readily fit into a benefits package – it’s more about things like explicitly recognising good performance (verbally and in cold, hard cash!) but also in how you treat people – for instance, if you have someone who is a good employee and performs will, it’s much easier to be flexible about when they come and go etc because you can trust them to manage their time and workload and not to abuse the flexibility, whereas with less effective employees often need a higher level of supervision or management. But I am not sure that that is something you can really market to potential employees!

      I think things like opportunities for advancement and education can be very helpful – both because they send out the message that you think the employee is worth investing in, and because it shows that you are supportive of them advancing. For example, we currently have an employee who stated out as our office junior – he is now one of our bookkeeper/cashiers and we are funding training for him to gain formal qualifications in that field.

    23. WinterCanStopNowPlease*

      We have a performance-based bonus program, and there are other incentives as well. We have a peer recognition p program using badges, and people with the most badges in various categories get a small cash prize and entered in draws for weekend trips to events we sponsor (professional sporting events) across North America. Also, top performers in each location are selected each year for an all-expenses trip 3-4 day trip to somewhere awesome…this year it’s a luxury resort in the Caribbean. Our office also does catered lunch once a month, and depending on your boss, there’s a lot of flexibility. Our holiday parties are legendary as well and people enjoy them. It’s a high-stress fast-paced environment, but they do try to keep employees happy. Seems to be working, because it was ranked the 2nd best employer in my country for Glassdoor!

      1. WinterCanStopNowPlease*

        Just realized I forgot some big ones: We have awesome health and dental insurance, premiums paid 100% by the company. Personal/sick days (# varies depending on location), retirement contribution matching up to 3% of salary. .

    24. Proxima Centauri*

      Mostly it centers around bonus. Every employee is eligible for the annual bonus, and most get something. Top performers can get a second bonus that pays out equal amounts over the course of a few years. If you get that second bonus a few years in a row, it compounds in a way that makes it extremely attractive to stay. For me at this point, walking away would leave a lot of money on the table.

    25. College Career Counselor*

      Tuition assistance for dependents (full tuition, if the kid goes to this institution, up to 1/3 of this institution’s tuition at another school)

      TIAA-CREF contributions (10% of my income), in addition to whatever I contribute.

      Some version of these are fairly standard for private institutions, in my experience, although the details vary (like amount of tuition at other places, time needed to vest, etc.).

    26. Nonprofit worker*

      We all get mostly similar benefits but for people that stay longer:
      1. Our days off keep increasing each year we stay and max at 24 (in addition to all holidays), so if I were to take all my vacation and our holidays it would be about 9 weeks and I don’t work at a school.
      2. Our phone plans are covered and every two years we get a stipend for a new phone.
      3. We have internal professional development workshops for leadership and management that people can apply for after they’ve been employed for at least a year.
      4. We have a lot of random, voluntary and fun projects that people can apply to participate in but they also need to be with the company for a year (some include trips to interesting domestic and international locations).

      1. side note*

        I should restate as overall package. Self funded medical dental vision; vacation and sick time are minimal even for executives (hence something other than a federal holiday such as a snow day means loosing limited vacation days), small chances for promotions/ large raises. It’s not all bad. Friend is working in industry she loves, her job has flexability which is great given her young family and personal interests, amazing mentor. It’s a manner of measuring pros and cons but financial aspects are a concern. Note that friend is a budgeter and does not spend foolishly so it’s not a case of adjusting personal finances.

    28. Marcy Marketer*

      There are so many good benefits out there! My spouse has federal health insurance and we definitely factor that into any job discussions, as private does pay much better.

      My former company offered 20 vacation days and 7 sick days, and they matched my 401k 6% starting day one, and put in 3% without any contributions from me at all. Also free lunch. It was dog friendly for a while but that ended.

      My current company is very WAH friendly and that makes a huge difference for a lot of people.

    29. Lora*

      Most places I’ve worked have some kind of extra bonus other than your regular yearly company performance based bonus; these can be small (think gift card size) or decent (restricted stock units). Also, above average folks are usually interested in tuition reimbursement, professional society membership dues paid and conference presentations or courses. And having time off that *doesn’t* come out of your vacation time to be a presenter at conferences and professional societies yourself.

    30. Irene Adler*

      I’m just amazed at the bennies/perks folks have.

      Kinda wish they’d mention company names. But that’s probably not a good idea to do so.

    31. Bad Candidate*

      This year my company started offering student loan assistance. They pay $250/month towards my loans. It’s in addition to my payments, not a replacement of. My payment didn’t go down at all, but they are helping pay down the principle.

      1. Library Land*

        Quick question from the company side of this – is this a tax write off for them? If not for all, would it be for non-profits?

        1. Natalie*

          I’m sure it would be – the IRS considers these kinds of payments to be wages (that is, the employee has to pay income tax on them) so they’d be just as deductible as any other employee wages.

          If the tax treatment ever changes so they are a tax free benefit on the employee side, you would almost certainly still be able to deduct them as long as the benefit program was broadly available to your employees.

          1. Bad Candidate*

            Yeah they “add” and extra $250 to my second paycheck every month (we get paid 15th & last) and at the usual rate, not bonus rate, so it’s the same as a wage.

    32. Adele*

      My friend is a highly-valued employee at mid-size company negotiated an extra 10-days PTO per year, bringing her up to six weeks. She is paid quite well (needs to be to finance her vacations!) but the time off was the thing that was most important to her and keeps her in a job that she might otherwise leave.

    33. NJAnonymous*

      My employer offers a pension that vests after 5 years. That time span would require that you get promoted, which is not assured, and because of the job most folks leave in under that time frame. FWIW, I’m a Millennial in my early 30s. I didn’t think pensions existed anymore.

      They also updated our family benefits and now give all parents (mother, father, adopted, etc.) 16 weeks full paid leave, as well as full coverage for IVF services. None of that stuff comes with a pay-back period, either.

      1. Specialk9*

        I’d be very skeptical of pensions. You just can’t trust anyone – private or government – to keep their word that long. The exception may be military. (Though ask Russian soldiers who were fighting in Chechnya how reliable the government was.)

    34. SI*

      – company funded ESOP (based on % of salary-my avg annual contribution has been around $15-18k)
      – matching 401k (not 100%, but a percentage after the first 5%)
      – 37.5 hour work week (I’m salaried/exempt but it’s still nice to not be expected to work crazy hours all the time)
      – flex schedules available
      – work from home as needed
      – free/reduced banking products, including mortgages and other credit
      – started at 150hrs PTO (remember, this is still based on 37.5hr week, so 4wks) and I’m up to about 225hrs now after 9 yrs
      – super casual attire
      – tuition reimbursement
      – company funded life insurance and disability
      – big sponsorships/large community presence allows for volunteer and other opportunities
      – hefty discounts on home/auto insurance and local memberships

      There’s not much room for movement, but it’s hard to leave perks like this. I once worked for a company that gave you a month’s paid sabbatical after 5 years there. That was awesome.

    35. Renata Ricotta*

      ” … it seems to me that they would be just as attractive to an average/mediocre employee as an exceptional employee.”

      I think the idea of having great benefits or other attractive qualities is that it attracts and retains EVERYONE, including the average and the exceptional. When that happens, the employer has increased “demand” for their positions and therefore can exercise greater control over their “supply.” If the employer has a ton of people who want to work for them and stay there long term, they can be pickier about choosing and keeping only the great ones.

    36. Namast'ay in Bed*

      A former employer used to give everyone 10% raises each year, along with bonuses for clients signing a new contract, extending a contract, etc, (proportional to the amount of money the contract was worth), along with year end bonuses for everyone. They wanted to encourage people to stick around around and directly show that the company’s success was success for the employees as well.

    37. M*

      We have 12% retirement contribution (not a match- I don’t have to contribute at all to get the 12%)

      After every 5 years of service, we get a stipend for travel (basically paying for a family vacation)

      After 7 years we can apply for paid sabbaticals of between 2 weeks and 2 months that include funding for professional development. This is definitely a way to reward best employees because it is an application and not all applicants will be successful.

      We have a gym and pool onsite w no membership fees, etc. and it is open to family members as well.

    38. Leela*

      Not a “benefit” per se but I left a high-paying job with amazing advancement opportunities because my manager couldn’t understand that a legitimate workplace issue between two women wasn’t just a dumb girl fight. He also favored needlessly aggressive women for being “no-nonsense” and “businesslike” when they were nothing of the sort, and overlooked talented empathetic women who got their work done well and on time because they just didn’t seem like “go-getters” to him.

      Make sure your management is good, and doesn’t roll their eyes at have to doing the parts of management that are hard or interpersonal. Anyone who can will leave that for another company who offers similar benefits.

    39. T3k*

      Where I was, employees (but not contractors, like I was) had unlimited vacation time, fully covered healthcare, and a host of other benefits. The idea was they wanted to retain great employees and so if they felt one was burning out they encouraged them to take time off (like, a couple months at once) and return, feeling fresh.

      That said, it does make it hard for smaller companies in the same field to compete. Though I was a contractor, employeed through a job agency, they paid me really well and I’ve already had one interviewer, when I told him how much I was paid, comment they wouldn’t be able to quite match that, but they did offer other benefits (though they couldn’t match that unlimited PTO).

    40. designbot*

      We have a promotional track that’s based on leadership and longevity, and certain benefits are associated with it. So for example, an Associate gets 50% of their professional memberships paid for, a Sr Associate gets 75%, a Principal gets 100%. On top of that SA and above get much better parking spaces. And then people who’ve been here 5 years or more get extra vacation days. So each of these things are maybe not that big, but over time as you grow you definitely find yourself being treated better.

    41. Not So NewReader*

      A place around here offers one of the better retirement deals around. Senior people have retired simply because their retirement account is making more money than what is in their paycheck.

      It’s the only good thing about the job. Everything else is misery. Their ability to retain help is dismal.

      So, in a not-brilliant move, the company informed it’s front line workers that they were making an additional minimum of $2 per hour in their retirement account. The front line workers stared at TPTB with eyes of deer caught in headlights. TPTB failed to grasp that if you cannot make ends meet now, a bunch of money at retirement is worthless. Workers tried to explain this and the inability to understand is incredible.

    42. Researcher*

      Where I am offers PTO cash out which is nice – plus PTO accrual per pay period rather than a lump sum. At 5 years you can cash out 40 hours/year and after 10 you can cash out 80 hours/twice a year. Nice for vacations, holidays, home repair emergencies, etc.

    43. MCL*

      I work at a large state university that has whittled away benefits over the past few years, including more expensive health insurance. It’s still probably better than other plans out there, though – I’m fortunate to be in good health and do not need to use my health insurance beyond routine checkups for the most part, so I never really shopped around. I’m fortunate to be on my spouse’s plan after we married two years ago, and they have a cheaper plan that covers more. He works in the corporate world (software), and his company offers excellent family health care plans that are much cheaper than what my employer offered. His company also offers a paid “sabbatical,” AKA a paid vacation to another country on the company’s dime. His company also offers stock appreciation rights, a usually very generous Christmas bonus (tied to performance), and yearly raises (also tied to performance). I off and on consider moving to corporate for the pay and benefits, but I’m in a good position where I am and earn decent money for my profession, plus I love my work/life balance which I see for my spouse is a little more work-heavy than I like. I also get much more vacation time than my spouse, which is another trade-off.

    44. lady bird*

      My company has a 9/80 work week. So we work 9 hour days (8 on the Friday we work) and have every other Friday off. it is SO nice. We also have three healthcare plans to choose from – the most popular plan is a high deductible plan but it has no premium (100% covered by company) and the company also gives a significant amount to your HSA to help cover the deductible. our 401k matching isn’t stellar but we also have a pension so that’s nice.

    45. Jerry Vandesic*

      Equity for top performers, with everyone from individual contributors to company executives being eligible. A combination of stock options and restricted stock that vests over three years. Top performers usually continue to get equity every year, meaning that there’s always a chunk of stock vesting over the next couple years to help retain you. Since we are a publicly traded company, the value of an employee’s equity grant is easy to calculate.

    46. Jennifleurs*

      Ha. Benefits. My company offers:
      Free parking (because there’s a car park on site)
      A free company dinner in February
      A generous Christmas hamper
      11% off products

      Nothing else. No sick pay, no life/health insurance (I’m British), no transport scheme, no “birthday off”, no incremental holiday increase … it goes on.

    47. JanetM*

      One thing my university offers is a longevity bonus: starting on the third anniversary of your hire date, you receive an annual bonus of YearsWorked*$100 (less taxes, and maxing out at $3,000).

    48. PB*

      My company has a good retirement health savings account program. They pay a certain amount of money into an account every month. On retirement, the employee can take it all to pay for medical expenses, provided a certain number of years of service. I’ve only been here less than 2 years, and there are over $2,000 in the account. By the time I retire, with additional contributions and compounding interest, that could be a lot of money for my medical expenses in retirement. I’ve probably got a good 30 year left before I can retire, but you can bet that that is a strong incentive to stay here.

      As far as benefits to retain good employees specifically, other than decent merit-based increases, I can’t really think of anything.

    49. Meg Danger*

      My employer doesn’t have a great pay or benefits (OK on both, but not exceptional). As a high performer, my company has made an investment in my professional growth in the company (conferences, certification programs, supervisory training, language instruction, cross-training with other departments, etc.), and a lot of these opportunities haven’t been available to other employees. It is one reason I feel some loyalty to my employer. But…

      The #1 benefit that keeps me with my current employer is a dog-friendly work-space. Between our employers, my spouse and I are able to bring our dog to work every day of the week (we trade off, every other day unless one of us has a big meeting or something off-site). This amounts to about $33/daily savings vs. doggie daycare (our work days are too long to leave our dog home alone). My dog loves coming to work, though not every dog enjoys an office environment.

      I happen to be a high performer, but this benefit doesn’t target high-performers. A dog friendly office could be a turn-off for high performers who don’t happen to like dogs. If I were ever to leave my company I would need to find another employer with a dog-friendly policy and/or enough money to pay for doggie daycare plus increased take-home pay (I probably wouldn’t consider changing employers for less than $10,000 above my current salary – so my employer is essentially giving me a sizeable retention incentive at no cost to the company).

    50. nonprofit*

      I haven’t read all the replies, but I know from speaking with our benefits expert that discrimination in certain benefits such as medical insurance and retirement plan eligibility and contribution is not allowed. Meaning employers cannot offer certain types or levels of benefits to some employees and not others. We’re in California, and it might be a California thing, though.

    51. Aphrodite*

      Two year college so basically government benefits:

      Vacation days that begin at one day per month and go up to 24 days per year. Can accumulate up to two years’s worth.

      Sick time accumulates at the rate of eight hours per month; can accumulate this without limits and is paid out if you have over a certain number of days.

      Paid holidays: 15 days per year.

      Medical (plus vision): Absolutely fantastic! We have a choice of four plans, one of which is an HMO, the other three are 80%, 90% and 100%. Most of the cost is paid by the college; our co-pay, taken over 10 months, depends on family status and choice of plans.

      Dental: Choice of three plans, two of them great.

      Numerous other smaller benefits.

    52. Safetykats*

      It’s possible that benefits like educational reimbursement, paying for continuing education and conference attendance, and support for work on professional standards committees might be helpful in retaining better employees – as it’s likely that the people who want to do these things are your better employees. You can also provide these perks with some discretion, so that you offer them only to the better employees. But the best way to retain better employees is always going to be active management – if only because not all your better employees want exactly the same thing. The ability to figure out what kind of perk motivates specific people and provide it requires some work from management, and therefore is by definition not passive.

      Unless you can figure out some way to offer tiered benefits you retain everyone equally with good insurance, vacation, or 401k.

    53. Adereterial*

      UK here. I get 25 days leave a year, increasing to 30 over 5 years. 8 public holidays, plus 2.5 privilege days (Queens Birthday, half day for Maundy Thursday, and an extra day at Christmas.

      I also get flexi-time, employee discounts, very cheap private healthcare if I want it (don’t need it – NHS). My employers pension contributions are 18.9%, mine are 5.4%.

      6 months fully paid sick leave, then 6 months at half pay. 6 months fully paid maternity/adoption leave (for each birth/adoption).

    54. MommyMD*

      Premium health insurance, matching 401k, vested retirement, five to nine weeks of PTO per year, dental, orthodontist, vision, offer of overtime.

    55. Anxa*

      I think our employer uses our benefits to chase us away. Not because they are bad, but because they have a reputation for being pretty good.

      And they taut them all of the time! Only problem? A huge portion of the staff are “temps,” adjuncts, contract, or student workers. Whenever I feel happy at my job, all it takes a little more bragging to remind myself I need to get a job that doesn’t make me feel so jealous of my coworkers.

    56. Gainfully employed, soon to be poor*

      Well, merit-based raises, obviously. But otherwise, every employee at my company gets 30 vacation days, unlimited sick days, matched 401k, financial support if you plan to buy a home, company-paid fitness classes, a gym of our own including showers, free unlimited organic fruit, juice, coffee, tea, milk, soda and sparkling water, and the option to work from home if a move due to family issues is required. I also got a company laptop and printer just in case I need to work from home at any point. We also have huge Christmas and summer parties, with unlimited free alcohol and food, and a couple lunches and breakfasts every year. Plus, the company is paying to fly ALL OF US to a Mediterranean island for 4 days this year to celebrate 30 years. The company is about 60 people.

      When I write that out, I can barely believe I’m leaving to go to law school!

  2. TGIF*

    Would it be weird to bring in my own office chair?

    My office has two different styles of chairs to choose from, one with a tall back and one with a short back. I’ve tried them both but find I’m really uncomfortable. I’m happy to spend my own money on something much more comfortable to sit on. But I’m just curious if that would be an odd move.

    1. Squeeble*

      Unless your office is really finicky about uniformity, you’d probably be fine. But if you find them both uncomfortable, you might be able to have your work buy it for you.

      1. rosiebyanyothername*

        Tell your manager about your discomfort and you can likely argue for work to buy you one. I am petite (5’2″) and with the chairs we had, my feet never touched the floor, so I was able to get work to purchase a small footrest for me. You deserve to be comfortable when you’re sitting there for 8+ hours!

        1. Naptime Enthusiast*

          Same, I had to get a petite version of our normal computer chairs and it made a huge difference.

          It would be weird in my office to bring in your own chair, and because nobody does everyone grabs chairs and pulls them up to the table for unofficial cube meetings. You would probably be upset for someone to use yours without permission if you were out one day.

        2. LavaLamp*

          This is were I plug my 60$ IKEA desk chair that works for us short people! I’m only 5’2″ as well and the office chairs work buys are apparently set as a default for tall people. I have a chronic condition that the too large chairs were exacerbating and having my doc fill out the ADA paperwork was super easy. Work reimbursed me my 60$.

          Said chair is the is the IKEA Renberget

    2. Nonprofit Lady*

      I don’t think so, no! I’d just let someone know ahead of time… the office manager or whatever. And just make it not a big deal, “I have some issues with sitting all day and I’d like to bring in my own chair if that’s OK. I’ve already found one that I like.”
      And if it’s going to be a big production to bring it in and get it set up, I’d try to do it during off work hours if possible. But once it’s in, I doubt anyone will even notice!

    3. WoSoFan*

      I wouldn’t find it weird. But before you buy a drag a new chair to the office, see if a back or butt cushion would fix those issues. I have a back support device and foot stool at my desk and it’s made a world of difference with my back pain. All much cheaper and portable than a full chair!

      2. Mephyle*

        If only the standard could be that everyone is uniformly comfortable, instead of that the furniture all looks alike.

        1. Triplestep*

          Often it’s less about how it looks, and more about buying practices, vendor contracts, safety and wear. See more in my comments down further if you’re so inclined.

        2. Mephyle*

          Thanks for the clarification. Even so, it would still be better if the uniform standard could be comfort and suitability.

      3. Bluebell*

        I worked in a place where you couldn’t bring in your own chair. I thought it was ridiculous, but at least I was ok with my furniture there.

    5. Not So Super-visor*

      check with your manager before you do it! At my work, they are all about uniformity and someone would lose it if someone brought in an outside chair.

    6. go get your chair*

      If someone did this in my office, I would just think, “oh, she needs a different type of chair”
      I wouldn’t think it very weird.

      One suggestion though – see if your office manager (or equivalent) can order you a chair, even if you pay for it. It might mitigate some “weirdness” you feel if the chair arrives at your cubicle in a similar manner to how other standard chairs arrive. If anyone asks you (with a slight err of “oh you had the company buy you a SPECIAL CHAIR??) you can volunteer the info that you paid for it yourself

    7. Overeducated Higher Ed Admin*

      Ask your manager or office admin! We have money in the budget to replace chairs but have had people pay for their own.

    9. MissDisplaced*

      I’ve thought about doing that too! And I don’t think it’s weird at all. But ask first.
      My company is cheap. We have to buy our own monitors if we want them for our company-provided laptops.
      The chair I was provided with has broken hydraulics, so I slowly sink all day, and the other choices are really uncomfortable chairs. I have back issues and a 2 spare chairs at home, so I was thinking about bringing one in.

    10. Eye of Sauron*

      I think it depends on the office. I asked an old boss for a new chair and he said no (I think he was just cheap). So the next week I bought my own and brought it in. I got a snotty look from him but not a word was said.

    11. Triplestep*

      I design offices and workspaces, which includes selecting and buying furniture. A lot of the time, the uniformity you see has to do with buying and servicing contracts the company has put in place. They know that these chairs meet certain specifications for safety and wear, will come in at a certain price point, can be replaced or repaired easily (at no cost to them) and they can get more at the drop of a hat. If they’ve put a lot of thought into getting a chair that meets ergonomic needs for the majority (not every chair has enough adjustments to be right for anyone who might use it) they may not want to open the door to people bringing in their own chairs. They also have no way to guarantee the safety of personal chairs, and they don’t want people injured on their site.

      That said, many companies have alternatives for people have specific ergonomic and/or health concerns. I’d start with your manger and see if your company offers ergonomic assessments (some organizations actually facilitate this through an insurance company). If your manager doesn’t know of a program like this, check with HR. They may make you fill out a form for accommodation, bring in a doctor’s note, whatever. I can’t say for sure, but I suspect it’s really unlikely that alternatives for health concerns and ergonomics have not been made to the two-chair choice you have now. Just like they don’t want anyone injured on their site, they also don’t want people leaving work because their chair choice left them in pain!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This is great advice.

        The only thing I can add is if you do end up buying a chair save that receipt forever, or until you quit the job. Put it where you know you can find it. It’s amazing how people can forget something does not belong to them.

        1. Chaordic One*

          I’ve been in offices where people put those little plastic labels that have raised letters on them with their names on them on the chairs. I thought the people were just overly territorial, but maybe they actually owned the chairs.

        2. Blue Cupcake*

          I was going to suggest the very same thing. Keep everything that proves it’s your property. Check if there’s a serial number. No only for proof for when you leave the company, but also in case another employee switches chairs thinking it’s company owned and they have a right to it too.

    12. Hannah*

      I did it.

      Come to think of it, I didn’t even ask. I just did it one day.

      People comment on it but no one has told me to bring it home, and it’s been years.

      1. Linyarri*

        Yeah, I did it too. I had a chair with a broken backstop, every time I leaned back I nearly fell over. I finally asked for a replacement and was told they are not replacing those chairs. So I brought in my own. A few people looked at me funny, but I pretty used to that so not sure if it was about the chair. Also, I am in a 2 person office with a lock on the door. I would never have done that on the open floor.

        1. Linyarri*

          I forgot to mention that prior to this the folks who are contracted to fix our chairs said it could not be fixed. I’m a divisional team in a regional office. Division never remembers us & region doesn’t have the $ to support us. So we tend to get hand me downs.

    13. Blue Eagle*

      I bought an ergonomic kneeling chair specifically for work. But, someone else brought one in before me and I liked it so well I did the same. It was no problem in that office because everyone had their own desk, there were extra chairs if needed, and it was unlikely that anyone else would sit in my chair.

    14. Musical chairs*

      Agree with the comments to check first and see if you can get your work to pay, with an official assessment if possible. Please don’t just put up with it, I have ongoing health problems triggered by sitting long hours in my office chair.

    15. Safetykats*

      If you have an office safety organization, you should check with them – or possibly with legal. We are prohibited from beinging our own chairs for safety and liability reasons. The company will provide ergonomic evaluations and ergo chairs as deemed necessary, and they are pretty nice. But since they are responsible if we are injured on the premises, they can’t take the chance that we provide our own substandard chair and it breaks or something.

      1. Safetykats*

        (Other places I’ve worked, mostly small companies! Would have probably been fine with it.)

  3. Llama Director*

    I got an unexpected promotion this week!

    I left lastjob last summer, and I *never* would have gotten a promotion there. I’d known that for a while and was ok, though not thrilled with it. When I left, my manager had to dig in one last time and tell me that she was glad I was leaving because she just wasn’t sure how to convince the people above her that I was useful. I’m pretty confident she had been planning to start the process for having me demoted. Now, I see that my job there has been posted with an exact list of everything I used to do, with the higher job title. Guess maybe I was useful after all.
    New bosses are awesome and repeatedly tell me that I’m doing more (and better) than expected. I had expected to talk about a promotion a year or two from now. This was totally a surprise and I’m just thrilled. Along with the promotion came a hefty raise (I’m now making close to 70% more than I was at old job), and stock options. Those were unexpected and much appreciated too.

    I was extremely hesitant to move to a new company, both new to me and new to the industry. I’m a stay in my rut kind of person and it was difficult to make that leap. It’s paid off in so many ways though, and being perceived as useful is probably the most important to me!

    1. WorkRobot*

      Congratulations! You believed in yourself, you took a scary leap of faith, and it paid off. I’m really happy for you.

      Your old manager sounds swell. NOT.

      Best wishes for continued happiness and success!

    6. Future Analyst*

      This is great to hear! I’m with you: I’m hesitant to make changes, but it’s good to know that things turn out well sometimes!

    8. King Friday XIII*

      Congrats! I’m glad you’re being appreciated now, and your old manager can just lie in the bed they made. XD

    9. BlueWolf*

      Congratulations! A similar thing happened for me at my current job. My old job was a small business so there was nowhere to go. I came here and got a promotion and raise within my first year! It is definitely scary to make that initial leap, but it can really pay off!

    11. Rookie Manager*

      Congratulations! It was definitely worth taking that leap of faith to a new organisation.

    13. designbot*

      That’s really awesome, congrats! Nothing like being able to prove your doubters wrong.

    15. Bostonian*

      Congrats! I know a lot of people who never come to the realization that they need to (or can!) leave for something better. Let this be a lesson to many!

    17. Bigglesworth*

      Congratulations!!! This is amazing news! I love that you’re at a place that can appreciate what you bring and they are rewarding you with more than just words! Keep rocking on!

  4. Art Imitates Life*

    After so long of reading AaM, I’m interested in how often you guys actually refer to a specific letter to help you out, or just reference. Recently, I’ve been helping the travel coordinator with booking travel for the team I support since she’s getting overwhelmed. I was really nervous at first because I kept thinking about the letter of the person who accidentally sent their boss to the wrong country. That has helped me with triple checking everything I’m booking before finalizing it.

    Also a flock of geese moved into the field and forest near my office during the winter months. Whenever they venture closer and hang out around our parking lot, I can’t help but to remember the bird-phobic employee who shoved his coworker into a car to run away from a bird…

    Anyone else have similar tales of remembering this blog?

    1. Not So Super-visor*

      I have had to reference the 2 letters about talking to employees about their hygiene. I’ve had to have this talk twice with different employees, and it is definitely not an easy talk to have. I was really grateful to read those letters before I had to do it.

    2. Lady Blerd*

      Often and not just for work situations, especially for ways to phrase certain conversations.

      1. Anonsie!*

        I asked for a raise after the recent letter, despite it being a fairly chutzpah-laden move based on the circumstances. My boss was casual in saying he thought that was totally a doable raise, rated me top, and now I’m waiting to see what that translates to. So that was a pretty direct correlation of Alison writing a column, I thought for a week, then did what she said.

    3. Laura H*

      That The whole gumption “walk in and ask” doesn’t work thing is relevant to me- because my folks keep touting it for asking for a transfer and they don’t get that It so doesn’t work that way- sure it’d be nice if it did, but it doesn’t and I’ve accepted it- acting in any way that indicates I can’t would rock the boat…

    4. PB*

      I was on a search committee recently, and a committee member asked if we should respond to thank you notes from candidates. Alison had just that morning posted a letter addressing that question (which I can’t find right now), so I sent that along.

      Another time, I was proofreading a friend’s husband’s resume. I was horrified to see that he’d listed her as his first reference, using her maiden name to make it less obvious. I passed along, as kindly as I could, that this was a very bad idea, and sent along Alison’s post explaining why.

    5. Manders*

      I can’t find the letter now, but there was one a few years ago from a person who was feeling really unmotivated at work and believed she wasn’t cut out for working at all. Alison and the commenters gave some great advice about finding out what you enjoy doing day to day and building a career around it.

      At the time I read it, I was recently out of undergrad and stuck in a crappy admin position that wasn’t going anywhere. I’d spent pretty much my whole life up to that point thinking I was either going into academia or publishing, and both job markets were in the toilet at the time. Thinking about what I actually enjoyed (problem solving, having measurable metrics for success, working with words but not cranking out the word counts freelance writers have to handle to stay solvent) helped me find a career path I ended up really enjoying.

        1. Manders*

          Digital marketing. I started out with a job where I was doing a little bit of everything, realized I really liked SEO specifically, and moved to another company where I could really focus on that. The focus on metrics and rankings gives me the measurable success I was craving, problem solving is a big part of the job, and I now oversee a team of freelance writers so I get to work with words without having to do all the writing by myself.

    6. Friday*

      The geese are back at my office too! And I totally can’t stop thinking about the bird-phobic dude either. These geese strut about the parking lot and start fights with each other on the roof.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        LOL Exjob liked to put water features and mowed, fertilized lawns on their campuses a la a country club. Guess what happened? Yep, permanent Canada goose populations. They’re like pigeons around these parts.

        And somebody got fired for kicking at one that was in his way on the sidewalk. I would never kick one; I just flap my arms at them.

        1. Art Imitates Life*

          I grew up with a healthy respect for geese, after my father had to aggressively impose himself between tiny child me and an angry goose. I would never risk kicking them, I avoid them at all cost. That employee was either brave or stupid.

          1. AnonEMoose*

            Oh, yes – you do NOT want to mess with geese. They have nasty tempers.

            There’s a story from where I grew up about a couple who took their young kid to a local spot where Canada geese congregate, thinking they’d pet the cute little baby geese ::eyeroll::. Anyway, I’m told that the guy ended up with stitches in his ::ahem:: “personal bits,” by the time he managed to escape the gander.

            Seriously. Who thinks that it’s a good idea to try to pet the babies of wild animals???!!!!

          2. Specialk9*

            Yeah seriously – the geese can defend themselves! They congregate on rowing docks and ugh I’m so scared of them.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            Somewhat. It doesn’t get rid of them but it makes you look bigger, so they sort of walk away with their beaks in the air like “I wasn’t interested in you anyway, puh-lease.”

        3. LavaLamp*

          What?! Poor goose. I like geese. Canadian geese actually like me for some reason. I was at a park once and a mamma goose let her babies come up and untie my shoes. Totally wild birds too. The ones by my office like to wait until the delivery trucks for UPS or FedEx are driving by and then slowly walk across the street in front of them. I’ve seen many a driver face-palm.

      2. Chaordic One*

        At a former workplace management was puzzled that no one wanted to use a particular row in the parking lot. That row was always empty. It turned out it was below a power line where a whole bunch of birds would sit and poop. No one wanted to park under the pooping birds.

        1. Totally Minnie*

          I worked in a building once where the parking space nearest to the staff entrance was always empty, which I thought was weird until I parked there one day. It was under a tree, and I had to go through the car wash twice to get all the bird poop off my car.

    7. Malibu Stacey*

      Not just one letter, but the idea that you shouldn’t really escalate the situation when a peer is breaking a rule (coming in late all the time, not meeting deadlines, etc.) unless it actually effects you.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Love this question. So many times we will see in the comments, “this is very relevant to me right now because [reasons]”.

      Once in a while I lose words because a question at work is so obvious that I cannot even explain the answer. I start to think, “Isn’t that intuitive?” I enjoy reading how Alison and others break down obvious-but-not-to-everyone things. It has helped me quickly find wording in the moment. A while back I got hit with the question, “Why do I have to be nice to other people at work?” I was able to handle the question succinctly and effectively.

    9. Happy Lurker*

      At least once a week I mentally reference AAM. Often times when my BF tells me about her spouse’s terrible boss. This guy is grade A a**hole.
      My sister’s boss is pretty awful too.
      I keep telling them both to check out AAM for pointers.

    10. Extra Vitamins*

      Well, I accidentally called someone “Fergus” at work this week at work. Ha ha! Fortunately he doesn’t read AaM, because is is very Fergus-y.

    11. EvilQueenRegina*

      Funnily enough, there was one a week ago where my one coworker talked about her cat as her baby and I flashed back to the letter about the person who did that in front of someone she didn’t know had had a recent miscarriage.

      One I have thought about sometimes is the Hunger Games letter when the coworkers had to fight it out for the day off, usually when my manager has approved lots on the same day.

    12. Nic*

      I’ve had a couple of employees with issues staying awake (graveyard shift), and have referred them to a couple of letters that had tips.
      I’ve also looked up interview-related letters when I was about to start interviewing potential new hires.

      For the most part, I’d say I generally take the knowledge that I gain from here and assimilate it into day to day decision making without specific callbacks to X or Y letter, but sometimes the specifics are incredibly helpful.

  5. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    I don’t know if anyone remembers but a couple of weeks ago (I think) I mentioned that we had brought back an fired employee as a sub – let’s call him Cornelius. It was met with a LOT of pushback because he was exceedingly difficult to work with.

    People have complained and subsequently gotten their hands slapped over it. Except, however, the field llama groomers. They’ve threated to leave the llamas to their own devices. This guy cannot possibly groom the sheer amount of llamas we have. So, instead, they’ve brought him into the office. It has gone as well as you can imagine.

    His first day back, a manager-lite (Fergus) swiped an intern’s laptop who had left earlier in the week. We’re supposed to send them back to HQ immediately. The warehouse manager had a fit because it’s his responsibility to get it back to the right people. Fergus told him that it was fine because Cornelius needed to be able to access his email. Turned into a blowout because Cornelius is NOT an employee. But, Fergus won the battle.

    Unfortunately, he was not able to login because………it’s technically still Intern’s laptop. So someone here who knows her, reached out to get the information so Cornelius could login.

    Now I’m getting llama grooming requests from Cornelius’ personal email. I see no way this can go wrong…………….

    1. Not So Super-visor*

      It sounds like the company should have figured out how to handle the IT needs that Cornelius would have (regardless of whether he is a sub or not). If he’s got to send emails for requests, he needs an email address and a way to access it.

    2. Q*

      I started a new job a month ago and for the first two weeks many emails were being sent to my personal email. When people wanted to know why I wasn’t getting/responding to emails we figured out the problem. (Also, the email address they were using was one I made just for job hunting. Since I had a job now, I wasn’t checking it anymore.) Anyway, even then people were still using it and I was still not replying. Finally I had to get all shouty and say I AM NOT RESPONDING TO EMAILS SENT TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL ADDRESS.

      So maybe you could get all shouty (or as much you are permitted) and say I AM NOT RESPONDING/TAKING ORDERS FROM PERSONAL EMAILS.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        The problem there I’ve seen is that since I emailed you during the hiring process, that’s the first address that pops up when I type your name, and I don’t necessarily notice. It’s not on purpose!

        1. Just another cat lady*

          Pro tip: Highlight name in Outlook, press shift+del to remove from suggested options

    3. Juli G.*

      I have to have this conversation all the time and I don’t understand why.

      Me: “Why would we bring them back?”
      Them: “They know the system/company/client/llama.”
      Me: “Then why did they fire them?”
      Them: “Well… for *fill in legitimate performance/behavioral issue here that they were always coached on for waaaay too long*. But I think it’s going to be okay.”

      One time, we fired a college kid who missed work an average of 3 times a week and was late the days he came. They asked to rehire him the next month telling me it was okay if he only worked two days a week as long as he was here within two hours of the expected start time.

      1. Annon for this*

        We just rehired a fire…WCGW?
        Ugh, it has taken much less time for the employee to get back into their bad habits.

    4. Oranges*

      Is there any way you can kick back and watch the insanity*? I’ve found making a game out of it somehow someway is key to keeping my sanity in these instances.

      *Make sure your boss is on board with you drawing correct boundaries and defending them. Otherwise sneaky boundary enforcing** might be a thing.

      **Sneaky boundary enforcing: Make it really really really hard for them to trample your boundary while still looking like you’re trying. Eg. “Sorry I don’t know why but all your emails go to my spam folder. I’ll check it more often and get back to you as soon as I see it” or “I’m sorry I’m too busy right now, I can totally help on Thursday though” or “It’s in the documentation!”

  6. Cancer Crush Anon*

    Well, I really spoke too soon last week. In my boyfriend’s words “I’m really sick of this CEO ruining my Fridays!!”

    If you’ve been following, CEO has called me a total of 7 times to ‘apologize’ and ‘clear the air’. 5 times after HR talked to him, 2 times last week. I never answered, but after the 2 last week I called HR and reminded her that I do not want to talk to him about anything but work.

    So last Friday, he came by my desk and asked my cubemate where I was. She told him I was in training. He asked her to tell me to call him about 1:1 Project I Work With Him On. She, knowing the backstory, texted me and let me know what happened.

    I immediately went into my boss’ office once I returned from training and told her. She insisted on calling him by herself to find out what he needed to talk to me about. We both suspected it was not about work, but we both knew we couldn’t ignore him if it was about work.

    So she called and his assistant refused to let her talk to him. Assistant said “He only wants to speak to CCA. It’s about something he’s working on her on. He’s in a meeting. No I can’t put you to his voice mail.” Clearly, this was not about work. As a side note, I had 3 IMs from Assistant asking me if I was at my desk while I was at training earlier. (Sidenote: 99.99% sure she is not aware of what’s going on, a few days ago she came over to me and tried to pry and badmouthed my boss for being pushy)

    So as she’s going over this with me, he freaking WALKS IN MY BOSS’ OFFICE. I stutter and try to leave and he asks me and my boss to stay. My boss tries to say it’s the end of the day and I need to leave, but he shut her down. He then spent an awkward 5 minutes apologizing me and telling me that I misunderstood what he said. That when he said he had a crush on me, he meant that as a high school word. He has his life, I have mine and he couldn’t possibly imagine being a young employee and the CEO harassing her and that’s not him, he can’t sleep blah blah blah.

    My boss tried to cut him off a few times, he talked over her. Finally I said “I get it. It’s fine. I never, ever, want to speak about this again.” And my boss told him I had somewhere to be and I ran out. Apparently he stayed and talked with my boss for half an hour later and she scolded him like an 8 year old (she said that was very scary because halfway through she realized she was scolding the OWNER and sort of froze, but he told her to continue). She said that his general attitude was “poor me why am I being picked on, other people get away with saying these things”.

    UGH. So needless to say, my anxiety is THROUGH THE ROOF. I found out I got rejected for the company my former coworker works at now, and I sobbed for awhile in my car. Not because I didn’t get the job, but because that means I can’t leave yet. I have a therapy appointment with our EAP referral in the upcoming days. We got our bonuses this week and I paid off my student loans and I wasn’t even ecstatic about it. My second recruiter is being unresponsive and I just feel very down and depressed about all of this.

    I’m so tired of this, guys.

    2. fposte*

      I can imagine; this is really draining.

      On the good side, though: HR is on your side, and your boss is on your side.

    3. Jesca*

      When I read this, my heart breaks. Just wish I could offer something, but it sucks! I am so sorry you have to go through this.

    4. Jam Today*

      Oh my goodness. I missed earlier accounting of this, do you have access to any other outside resources like (say) an attorney who can help you with strategies to document this, or offer advice on when its appropriate to get law enforcement involved? He is actually chasing you around the office now. This is starting to look like stalking to me.

      1. Cancer Crush Anon*

        Yes, boyfriend’s father is a prosecutor and his brother is an insurance defense lawyer. Brother defends companies from horrible harlots like me :) So he’s been able to give me excellent advice on how to handle it. But both BIL and FIL have been helpful in just giving me expectations on what my rights are and what I can and cannot do.

        They have ideas in place for me on what to do, but all require getting a new job first since I do live paycheck to paycheck.

        1. neverjaunty*

          Boyfriend’s father and brother are probably excellent at what they do, but they should be referring you to someone who handles employee-side employment law. (That should not cost you anything, at least in the US, as those lawyers work on contingency.) Criminal law and insurance defense are waaaaay different than employment law, and you need a specialist.

          1. Cancer Crush Anon*

            Yes, they are. Didn’t want to get into too much detail about the law side…but if it comes down to me being fired they have people they want to refer me to.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Have they contacted your company’s legal counsel?

              It seems to me that a letter to the company lawyer from another lawyer might be a good idea.
              Especially in light of him cornering you in this story here. No means no, no does not mean keep trying.

              Personally, I think this guy could benefit from therapy but that is no help to you, except as a fist bump of support.

              It might be worthwhile to see if you have enough experiences here to quit with a severance package, which might allow you to job hunt. (I mean the lawyers negotiate a deal for you.) I can’t see where staying in this frying pan is going to help you.

              1. Not So NewReader*

                This might be a bad idea and only you would know if it’s right for you.
                Have you introduced your boyfriend to this guy? I have seen some situations where that shuts everything down permanently. The idea is NOT that your bf will protect you, no-no-no. The idea is that you are involved with a real person and plan to stay there, this dude has NO chance ever. What stops the other person is the realization that you are committed by choice to someone else and you will not ever have any interest.

                1. Cancer Crush Anon*

                  Boyfriend has not met CEO yet…but I do tend to talk about boyfriend all the time and he’s seen a picture or two I think.

                  Can’t think of a reason they would meet, except for a company event and we don’t have any of those planned anytime soon, nor do I plan to still be there when we do have one.

                2. Anonasaurus*

                  I wouldn’t do this for a few reasons. Not only is it squicky (and, in my personal experience, borderline re-traumatizing) to allow a creep to decide whether or not you’re a sex object based on whether or not you “belong” to someone else, but there’s a real boundary issue. I would never want my sig. other to come into my workplace or meet with my coworkers with the expressed intention of branding myself as “taken.”

                  Like you said, maybe it works for some, but it would be one of my last resort keep-myself-safe options because the psychological impact is too high (for me at least).

            2. neverjaunty*

              Don’t wait to get fired! They should be referring you to someone NOW so that you can protect yourself and get out without hurting your career or having to sue anyone.

              I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.

          2. Please check your "facts"*

            Neverjaunty, Your statement is just plain wrong. Employee-side employment attorneys in the U.S. do charge per hour and require a retainer (usually several thousand dollars but can be tens of thousands of dollars) unless they and their law office decide to take a case on contingency, which is so very rare.

            1. neverjaunty*

              Contingency fee arrangemens are not “so very rare”. Most employees don’t have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on a lawsuit – and if lawyers only catered to rich employees who had that kind of cash, they’d go out of business. That’s the whole point of contingency fees; your clients can’t afford to pay up front.

              I am guessing that you personally were told by a lawyer that they wouldn’t take your case on contingency and you’d need to pay out of pocket?

    5. CG*

      I don’t have anything helpful to say other than just an UGH. I’ve been following your updates with horror and concern for you. There are so many “THIS IS WHY”s going on here.

      As others have said, I’m really glad for you that your boss and HR are on your side, but still. That’s a low bar. This is a grown man. A selfish grown man who has made this all about himself and doesn’t realize that he is making things worse by thinking that he can talk to you about this enough to force things back to how he thought they were before.

    6. President Porpoise*

      So, I’ve just read through the comments you’ve posted on this topic for the last six weeks. Between the CEO crap, your dad’s cancer, and the new job search, it sounds like total hell. You’re starting to sound a bit unraveled, which is understandable given the circumstances.
      I know you want to save your PTO for your job search and in case your dad needs more treatment, but I think you need a day or two to regroup. I have no real advice other than that, so pushing good thoughts your way. I hope you get a viable job offer soon.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I think that OP’s bf is getting on edge about it and it’s the straw on the camel’s back for OP.

        The situation has gone on too long, OP, and it might be better at this point just to give notice.

    7. SophieChotek*

      I am sorry you are dealing with this – I can’t imagine. Hope you find a new position soon. Fingers crossed.

    8. Shiara*

      This sounds so miserable, and I’m sorry you’re still going through this.

      I’m also very grateful for and impressed by your boss. It really sounds like she’s doing everything in her power to have your back on this. I hope you can get out soon.

      1. Reba*

        I agree, Boss sounds awesome.

        CCA, Congratulations on paying off your loan! I know you feel under a cloud right now, but that is huge and I hope it brings you some feelings of happiness and relief.

    10. anna green*

      Oh my gosh, I am so so sorry you are dealing with this. This is utterly horrific. You will get through this somehow! Just keep looking for something else and keep documenting everything. Glad your boss is on your side and supportive. But this is still just… awfulawfulawful.

    11. Galatea*

      Oh jeez, I’m so sorry — I’ve been following your updates and getting increasingly horrified/furious on your behalf. I hope you find a new position soon, and I hope this jerk falls into an open sewer or something, because JEEZ!!!

    12. Cheesesticks and Pretzels*

      Sending thoughts and vibes your way that you can get the hell out of there soon! So sorry you are still dealing with this.

    13. MissDisplaced*

      This is really creepy. All I can say is it sounds like you boss has your back on this, which is good.
      Hopefully, this truly will be the end of it.

    14. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Dude, like…that sucks. I’m really sorry that this isn’t getting better for you, because you deserve better than this.

      I totally agree that you almost certainly need a mental health day (not sure about your company’s policy w/r/t PTO) – and as a bonus, it’d keep the CEO away from you for at least one day! But…ugh, I just showered and your CEO makes me want to take another shower.

      1. Cancer Crush Anon*

        I really can’t afford to take PTO…We get two weeks total here, and I’ve already used some for my dad’s condition and a planned vacation. Some of the places I’ve been applying to have full day interviews, so I’m trying to save my remaining days as much as possible.

        1. Windchime*

          How about sick days? Honestly, if you have sick time I would take some as mental health days. Nobody at work needs to know the reason you are out sick; mental health reasons are perfectly appropriate, especially in this situation. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. It sounds really awful.

            1. Anonymous Ampersand*

              Can you take a day or two off unpaid if necessary?

              I am so sorry you’re still going through all this! The owner sounds like a terrifying loon. Your boss, however, rocks.

              1. Cancer Crush Anon*

                She has been helpful in this instance. She tends to spend 80% of her day with her boss, who she is having an affair with…so…while she has been great to me with this, she has been terrible in other regards.

                Either way, I appreciate her help, but she would not be okay with me taking a day unpaid.

                1. Totally Minnie*

                  Holy toledo. Your workplace sound a little like General Hospital. I’m so sorry that you’re still stuck in this. I hope you can find a way out soon. I wish I had a job to offer you!

    15. Alice*

      What a frustrating situation. Good luck,

      but also,
      Congratulations! You paid off your loans! That’s an accomplishment to be proud of, even when someone has a great work environment. You are dealing with other challenges too, and you’ve accomplished this. Bravo.

    16. Akcipitrokulo*

      So glad for your good boss. Maybe that will make him back off.

      It is going to work out… lots of best thoughts

  7. Not So Super-visor*

    Networking question:
    Is it odd that a former temp would reach out to your boss (director level) rather than you to inquire about any direct-hire opportunities in your department (her former department)? For what it’s worth, he had no interaction with her while she was here and had to come to me to ask who she was. I’m still listed on the company website as the manager for this department, and our company emails are a pretty simple formula of firstname.lastname@company.com (and mine is easier to spell!). It just seems off-base for her to reach out to him rather than me, especialy when I would be the one to make those hiring decisions.

    (TBH, I think that I’m just being overly sensitive about this. I have a fairly domineering, micromanaging director and work in a male dominated-field. I’m the first female supervisor for my department in over 15 years and the first supervisor to ever be promoted to manager. It’s taken 2 years to get people to stop running to him for things that I’m the decision maker on and come to me instead, so I’m probably taking this more personally than I should. It’s fine to tell me that.)

    1. dr_silverware*

      Trust your instinct. You didn’t get to where you are now by being a dummy about people. At the very least, the former temp misjudged the networking in a weird way—reaching out to a stranger instead of the person you know?—and that’s worth thinking about.

      1. Lance*

        Exactly. You’re not taking this too personally; the former intern is doing something silly by going to literally anyone but the person she actually knows in the company (that is, you). Not sure what she expects to accomplish with that, but it’s not a good look for her.

      2. Marthooh*

        I suspect she’s showing Gumption by reaching out to Big Deal Director instead of just using the contact she already has.

    2. it_guy*

      That’s an old job hunting trick that now is kinda weird. You email the highest level person that you can find and they usually will respond with “I don’t handle that, I’ll send it on to the right people”, and an email coming from the boss has more gravitas than some J.Random nobody.

    3. Nonprofit worker*

      I’d be annoyed too. I had two interns reporting directly to me last year and they were both in their last year of college. One of them, Bob, had worked previously and Fergus had not. Fergus had never even had anything that resembled a job so he did quite a few things that seemed to defy common sense while he was working for me, but he was also very talented at his tasks. I could definitely see him doing something like what your intern did and not even realize it was wrong.
      He literally told me he was applying for other internships that were scheduled during his internship with me and asked me for advice. He was very clueless about how the working world operated.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      As a stand alone misstep, I would try to over look it. However, if she has History with you of circumventing you then I would say you have cause.

  8. any ideas*

    I’m trying to promote a Facebook group that I am using as an advertising tool for a small business that is in the early stages. I am having trouble getting followers to join / likes. So far Facebook wise I have – networked with like-but-non-competitors, advertising on my personal page, discussion boards. Before anyone asks, I am using other avenues of advertising (online non facebook and traditional offline advertising) but based on research, a majority of the small business customers use Facebook as a form of communication. Does anyone have any ideas on how to increase a Facebook group’s members to advertise a business?

    1. Anony*

      I’m a little confused. Are you trying to get people to join a group solely so that you can try to sell them something? I don’t think many people will do that. You will need to offer some incentive. Either have discussions in the group that are of interest to them, facilitate networking that will benefit them or offer discounts if they join. You may have more luck buying facebook ads.

      1. CTT*

        Seconding that you should look into buying facebook ads. I find even facebook groups covering topics I am interested in to be annoying and turn off most notifications, so it would be hard to convince me to join one that would just be ads. Getting ads that would be embedded into a user’s newsfeed would be a lot more effective.

      2. any ideas*

        Hi Anony – sorry my post was not clear. No they are not selling anything directly on facebook. The whole story is I am helping a mom n pop company try to expand to more of a small business atmosphere. This is something I am doing on my own time and something I am very very indirectly trained in in my 9to5 job. Many of their customers use facebook so we created a facebook business page. While their loyal customers have liked and followed their page, they seem to be stuck at status quo. I’ve advertised their group on a few networking pages and discussion pages. We will have to check out your suggestion of facebook ads.

        1. Marketing Professional*

          Facebook groups and Facebook pages are two separate things. You need to make sure you have the business listed as a facebook page. And think about what incentive there is to like the page, as Facebook has become increasingly “noisy” with politics and memes in the last few years. What information will be shared on the page that makes it worth following? Events? Sales? Daily menus? Get real customers to write reviews on the page to help legitimize it. Good photography will help. You will probably need to do some ads which can be cheap just to give it some traction with Facebook’s algorithms.

        2. OperaArt*

          I’m a little confused. A Facebook business page and a Facebook group are two different things, and need to be handled differently. Do you have a page, a group, or both?
          Anyway, perhaps offer special deals for followers, have small contests for followers, use targeted ads…

        3. sunshyne84*

          Are the customers engaged with the page? If you get them to leave comments or reviews then their friends will probably see it. Maybe you can hold a contest? Explore the customers pages and see what other things they are interested in and other groups they are apart of so you can get a feel of your demographic.

    2. Louise*

      Facebook recently changed its algorithm to preference posts from friends and family instead of pages and brands. I think the best thing you can do is to make sure people are engaging with your posts—not only liking, but commenting and sharing. It’ll help you get in front of more eyes organically, so I’d make sure that the stuff you’re posting is something your customers will want to interact with!

    3. Juli G.*

      Giveaways after meeting certain thresholds- when we meet 500 followers, we’ll give away x product/gift card/etc. It’s not a long term sustainability goal but it will get short term gains.

      Before you do that, I’d make plans for engaging, regular content to continue the conversation.

      1. Betsy*

        I second the posting engaging content, on a fairly regular schedule (so people don’t forget about the business).

        I think the trick here is to make the content something people can use without boring people or talking down to them. It depends what the business sells– if they make jams then perhaps people might like a marmalade recipe, or if it’s a boutique people could like an article about recent fashion trends, or a yoga studio could do a short video about how to do a difficult pose.

        In my opinion, small businesses often make the articles too much about themselves and the experience of running their own business which is not that interesting to people unless they’re really successful.

    4. Q*

      In my experience, local small businesses don’t use their FB pages to post ads. They post news about changing hours and new products and new staff and events they’re participating in.

      1. sunshyne84*

        Yes go out in the community, maybe even partner with another business. If you sell cookies, find an ice cream shop and throw a lil shindig.

    5. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Food for thought – if you weren’t connected to this small business, would you follow their page? It can be easy to think “oh so many people like this company or shop here, why won’t anyone follow their social media page” but if you take a step back you may realize you wouldn’t follow them either. What makes you follow other pages? Why should someone follow this page? I may like the local ice cream parlor around the corner, but I’m not going to follow their page without a good reason. They need to share good content that I’m interested in and bring more to the table than just info about their business. Industry-relevant third-party content is a great way to show that the company is knowledgeable at their business and isn’t just trying to sell people something all the time.

      Figure out the non-selling point of this Facebook page and what others will/should get out of it.

    6. Where's the Le-Toose?*

      The only Facebook business pages that I like or follow are:
      (1) Ones that consistently advertise new products that are interesting
      (2) Cars, just because I like cars
      (3) Local businesses that offer coupons or advertise events at their locations

      I love my local barber, but I don’t follow his Facebook page because he does none of these things. But I follow a butcher that’s not even close to my house (but somewhat close to work) because they are doing cool events like “how to make your own sausage” and “how to carve a chicken or turkey.”

      I think people won’t just naturally follow a page. There needs to be a hook.

    7. Freelance Everything*

      1) consistent content
      – approx. 3x a day at peak times (check your Page Insights)
      – you can increase frequency during product specific promotion but be wary of spamming

      2) varied content
      – do not plug the same thing all the time.
      – do not sell all the time or talk about yourself the whole time
      – link to articles, posts, videos of related stuff.
      – hop on relevant hashtags but don’t overdo the hashtags. Facebook is not Instagram.

      3) Pictures!
      – always have a photo or video with your post. Proven to increase audience acknowledgment.
      – Use free stock photos, enable link previews, get your own done

      4) Videos!
      – Consistent blog-like updates are good if warranted. Keep it under a minute.
      – Instead of photographing products can you video them?
      – People love behind the scenes/making of videos, is that applicable?

      5) Ask questions
      – encourages discussion
      – doesn’t have to be related to products, it can be silly

      I would also focus less on the ‘joins’ and more on interaction. As other people have said, engagement is really the key area.
      I would personally have opted for a group and therefore be looking at ‘likes’ not ‘joins’ but I assume that’s too late now.

      A point on Twitter, if you’re using it (and I recommend it), don’t sync your Facebook posts to automatically upload to Twitter. You get picture-less links to FB pages with rarely any click through.
      If you use a social media manager, like Hootsuite, you can schedule things very far in advance (cutting down on time consumption for you) and you can create more engaging posts for Twitter.

      1. any ideas*

        This is very helpful. THank you!!!! We are still in the early stages of things that we can implement a lot of what you discussed. We even had a meeting to go over everything this past weekend. Thanks again!

  9. Jennifer paige*

    For a minute or two I had a tiny crush on a coworker. That’s passed now. I have no romantic feelings for that person.

    There’s a movie actor who looks similar to them. Now I’m crushing on that actor.

    That’s not weird at all right?…right?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Just don’t tell all of your co-workers and clients that the actor is your husband and glare at them when they laugh.

    4. fposte*

      It may also just mean you have a type that sets your pulse a-fluttering, and you will find other men in future who fit that type as well as these two.

      1. Thlayli*

        This. You just have a type. You find a specific set of physical characteristics attractive. This is totally normal.

    5. MissDisplaced*

      As long as you don’t behave like the jerky CEO upthread, I’d say having a tiny ‘crush’ on a coworker is fairly normal and happens from time to time. You like a certain type, that’s all.

    6. As Close As Breakfast*

      I think sometimes work crushes are inevitable? Kind of like school crushes? I currently have a small crush on someone at work. The thing is, I KNOW I don’t really like him. We have absolutely nothing in common (to the point that most of our core beliefs, values, and general life preferences and activities completely clash) and I don’t even objectively find him attractive. And frankly, sometimes he has bad breath. But still, I get a little tingly sometimes and probably touch my hair more than I should when I see/talk to him. Because… idk… he’s here? Shrug.

    7. Anonymous Coward*

      I started watching a new TV series and one of the characters reminds me of a coworker. That character has a lot of on-screen love scenes, and now it feels weird when I see that coworker, like I know stuff about their private life.

    8. Hannah*

      Oh man, I have such a crush on a coworker. I wish I could redirect it like that! That’s a good trick.

  10. Pancakes*

    I’m looking for work travel tips!

    I’m going on my first ever business trip (I’ve been working for a few years, but my previous job never involved travel). My company is hosting an event in another city and I’m traveling there to staff it (along with about half of my office). I feel pretty prepared, but I’d love to know if any AAM readers have any tips or tricks I might not have thought of.

    1. Nonprofit Lady*

      Take it easy at the bar! I’ve seen way too many people get too comfy at the bar on business trips and do/say things they later regretted. Plus, staffing the 7:30 am registration table with a hangover is not something you want to be doing.

      1. Ama*

        As an addendum to that — if you know you’re going to drink socially at the event’s meals or go to a bar, make sure you try to get some food and water in your stomach before you start. I’m pretty good at moderating my drinking but when I’m staffing events I often don’t eat regularly and then all of a sudden one glass of wine has a larger effect than I anticipated.

    2. ZSD*

      Since you’ll probably be having to pack a suit and dress shoes, see if you can compensate by taking fewer of the toiletries and cosmetics that you might normally pack. Not having to lug a huge suitcase can help with your mood when you arrive.
      Check with people who’ve traveled before to get a feel for how much it’s actually reasonable to spend on food and incidentals. Your employer might have an official set level, but if you work for, say, a nonprofit, you might learn through the grapevine that you’ll build up ill will if you actually spend more than 75% of that limit (or whatever). But if people say it’s okay to splurge, do so!
      It sounds like you might be traveling from location to location in a group, but when I go on business trips alone, I put together a clipboard with clear typed directions listing my flight information, how to get from the airport to the hotel, how to get from the hotel to the conference center, etc. Some people might prefer to do this just on their phones, but I find that the act of preparing the clipboard forces me to become extra-organized and prevents confusion on arrival.

      1. NotMyRealName*

        My system is a file folder that I start as soon as I start booking hotels/flights. All my travel documentation goes in the folder and it rides upfront in my briefcase. All of my travel receipts go in the folder when I return to my hotel at night. If I’m particularly well organized I have my travel reimbursement form included in the folder so I can get a jump on it if I have downtime.

        1. Solidus Pilcrow*

          I do a mix of your two ideas. I don’t make up a clipboard, but I do print out 2 copies of the flight itinerary, reservations and confirmations. One set goes into my briefcase/bookbag and the other set goes in my roller bag.

          For my briefcase, I found some zippered pouches at walmart that I like. They’re about 12″ wide x 6″ tall. They fit a folded 8×11 sheet comfortably and are somewhat water resistant – mine’s also orange, so easy to see. I keep my itinerary and any important documents in there (like the boarding pass once I clear security) and drop any receipts in there as well. Bonus that the receipts stay nice and flat/unwrinkled when I need to scan them in for the expense report.

          My other tip is an extension cord. I have a travel one with 2 outlets and 3 USB charging ports. It’s great for airports or if outlets are in inconvenient places.

    3. rosiebyanyothername*

      I asked a similar question before my first business trip a few months ago! Hope you enjoy the trip. My best advice is to stay hydrated, bring comfy shoes, find at least 1 fun thing to do on your own during free time (for me, it was checking out a cool local restaurant near the hotel), and be cautious if you go out with your coworkers–“drunk on business trip” stories last for a long time.

    4. Not So Super-visor*

      Oh! I just got back from 2 weeks of traveling!!
      A) Make sure that you understand your company’s policies for expensing (what they’ll cover, how to submit it, restrictions, etc)
      B) If you’re picky about food/beverages — find out what ammenities your hotel offers (ie — mini fridge, microwave, coffee maker etc).
      Week 1: I ate fast food/quick dine-in options all week and was miserable (stomach/energy-wise)
      Week 2: I discovered a Whole Foods-like grocery store 2 blocks from the hotel and ate mostly off their salad, soup, sandwich bar for dinner (lunch was at the training center). I was much happier. I also picked up some amazing coffee to make in the hotel room which made my morning experiences 100% better. My company happily covered both as it was much cheaper than my expenses the previous week.

      1. SweetTooth*

        Yes! The first work travel I did, I couldn’t get one trip to Dunkin Donuts reimbursed because they had given me the credit card receipt but not the itemized receipt. Granted, it was less than $5, but make sure you receive and hold onto itemized receipts for anything if that’s the level of detail your company wants. A fortunately inexpensive way for me to learn my company policies, but still not recommended.

        1. Sweet T*

          Second. My company is odd in that you must order full meals to be reimbursed. So a coffee by itself is not reimbursable, but coffee + breakfast sandwich is.
          We get $75 max per day for meals so I usually get something inexpensive for breakfast and lunch, and splurge at dinner – and hit TripAdvisor in advance to find a great place to eat.

      2. Fiennes*

        Definitely consider going to a grocery to pick up breakfast food and munchies; hotel breakfasts are incredibly overpriced & rarely worth it. I always get either protein bars or (if I have a fridge) milk and cereal to eat instead. Then, yes, splurge on a genuinely good dinner!

        In your off hours, try to really unwind. Since I’m by myself and free from any usual errands/housework, I often find business trip evenings a good chance to immerse myself in a book, get out to that movie my partner isn’t interested in, or get a mani-pedi (all as purely personal expenses, of course). Not only is it enjoyable in itself, I’m more refreshed and energized the next day.

    5. Ambpersand*

      Pack easy to carry snacks! You never know when your schedule could get out of whack and dinner gets delayed, or if you need a quick bite between meeting/events.

    6. ZSD*

      Since you’ll probably be having to pack a suit and dress shoes (heavy stuff), try to compensate by going without some of the toiletries/cosmetics you’d usually pack. Having a lighter suitcase to lug will help your mood when you arrive.
      Ask your colleagues who have traveled before how much it’s actually reasonable to spend on food and incidentals. Your employer might have a stated maximum, but if you work for, say, a nonprofit, you might learn that it’s frowned upon to actually spend the whole amount. (But if people say it’s okay to splurge, do so!)
      It sounds like you might be traveling in a group from location to location, but when I do work travel alone, I put together a clipboard with not only printouts of my flight and hotel information, but also typed out directions of how to get from the airport to the hotel, from the hotel to the conference center, etc. Some people might prefer to rely on their phones for this, but I find that the act of assembling the clipboard forces me to be hyper-organized and reduces anxiety and confusion when I arrive.

      2. Nonprofit Lady*

        +1 to this! It’s helpful to figure out not just the RULES of spending, but the NORMS at your org. If you’re expensing meals and what not, figure out a system for keeping receipts. I usually keep an envelope where I write what I’ve spent for which meals, and keep it all in my purse or wallet. And if you’re ordering alcohol you may need to ask for it to be on a separate tab because most places won’t let you expense alcohol.

    7. Lily Rowan*

      Look nice on the travel days, even if that’s all you’re doing and even if you don’t think you’re on a flight with coworkers — you will run into them, and you’re better off not looking like you rolled out of bed.

    8. SophieChotek*

      Bring easy to eat/not need to be refridgerated/easy to travel snacks. Especially with work conferences (depending of course on so many variables), there may not be time to eat. And then by the time there is time to eat…everything is closed, or too far away to walk easily to, or the only option is expensive room service, etc. I usually do this and hope I won’t need to use them (that I’ll have lunch with colleagues or even the occassional quiet cup of coffee by myself), but bringing my own snacks has definitely saved me from “starving” at 9pm at night when I finally get in from a full day and just can’t be bothered to go out to get food.

      Snacks might be: nuts/trail mix, protein/granola bars, dried fruit, chocolate/cookies.

      Plus all the good advice here I have no need to repeat.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        If you have a smartphone, download the GeniusScan app. (This may only be available for iPhone.) Keep your receipts but also scan them so you have another copy. Do this immediately after buying something, if you can– I tend to throw away coffee receipts by accident.

    10. CG*

      Seconding Lily Rowan’s comment about looking nice all the time. I usually bring dark jeans, nice tops, and an extra comfy blazer just in case – you never know who might want to informally grab dinner or who you might run into at the airport (…I have discovered by running into senior members of competitors’ offices at the airport while wearing yoga pants and a baggy old tshirt).

      Also, if you are checking luggage, make sure you have at least two days’ worth of work clothes in your carry-on just in case. Sometimes, things go sideways with your bag, and it’s easier to have your hotel dry clean a suit than to go find a new one in a new town (especially if you are a woman).

      I always bring a nalgene with me when I travel, because flights make me thirsty, meetings make me thirsty, being in hotels makes me thirsty… it’s handy to have. My other travel essentials are headphones, cheap sleep mask for airplanes, book/tablet for downtime, a backup battery for long meetings with no outlets, a few granola bars for long meeting days or times where work interferes with meals, and a travel converter for international trips. If you’re going abroad, bring some basic meds too, just in case (like imodium, advil, and benadryl).

      1. Susan Sto Helit*

        I also travel with a stash of baby wipes/deodorant wipes, in case I need an emergency freshen up, and have a set of packing organisers (or travel pouches, or packing cubes, or whatever the retailer is currently calling them). They’re great for keeping your luggage tidy and organised, and are also waterproof – that extra layer of insurance for shampoo explosions and the like.

        Make sure all your wardrobe does double duty as well – everything you bring should ideally be workable for at least two different outfits, and be able to be dressed up or down depending on what you’re pairing it with.

      2. CG*

        Ooh, don’t forget to pack business cards if you work in that kind of job! Sometimes I forget, and it makes things a little tough.

    11. Florida*

      You probably don’t need as many clothes as you think. Usually, I’ll plan to wear pants more than once. You can coordinate your outfits so you can wear the same shoes, rather than taking a bunch of shoes.

      I’m pretty introverted. I love people, but I have to be by myself sometimes. Don’t feel bad if you don’t want to hang out with your co-workers ALL the time. If everyone is going out to dinner and you are sick of them, you can say, “I think I’ll go back to my room early.” One thing I usually do is I don’t meet my co-worker for breakfast. I’ll just meet them at the event.

      My company is super generous with travel expenses, so I always get my own rental car. That gives you more freedom than if you have one car for 3-4 people.

      Take a small pack of those lysol wipe things. Sometimes you encounter gross things (like the tray table on the plane), and you can clean it.

    12. Nonprofit worker*

      Good question. I’ll be scrolling through the comments too.

      I travel about 10 times a year for work and I actually like staying in hotels because I’ve created a routine for myself. I always use the hotel gym so I make sure to bring clothes I can exercise in in addition to my work clothes. I’d recommend bringing more socks and underwear than days you’ll be there because after travelling for a few hours you won’t want to touch any of the clothes you’ve been travelling in.

      The hotel will have toiletries so don’t bother bringing them unless there is something you can’t live without. I usually bring a face mask or two because its my cosy way to end the day.

      I always bring melatonin and earplugs because sometimes its hard to fall asleep in a new place.

      Airports: If you are going through an airport, have all your toiletries in one clear bag at the top of your bag/suitcase so you can pull it out quickly. Wear shoes you can get off quickly, and don’t have a lot of things in your pockets. I usually wear leggings and a sweatshirt with easily removable shoes.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        As an addendum to the airport wardrobe suggestion:

        I’ve had a similar experience on a business trip where I ran into a VIP in the airport while wearing a less than ideal outfit. Since then, my go-to is leggings and a knit dress with a pair of slip-on boots. You look a little more put together, but feel like you’re in your PJs.

        And I’m going to recommend a travel size bottle of Downy Wrinkle Releaser spray. I don’t know if you typically unpack at a hotel, but I’d recommend at the very least taking out tomorrow’s clothes the night before, spritzing with the Downy and either hanging them up or laying them flat. That way, you don’t have to get into a fight with the hotel ironing board. :)

    13. Argh!*

      Brush your teeth before you get dressed, not after.

      Don’t order spaghetti or anything drippy for lunch.

      Keep a supply of business cards handy (wallet, purse, laptop bag, etc.)

      Bring a spare cell phone charger.

      1. Nonprofit worker*

        I’m actually leaving for a conference today and this reminded me to grab some business cards! Thanks!

      2. Totally Minnie*

        And a power strip! Hotel rooms never have as many outlets as I want in convenient places.

    14. Delightful Daisy*

      I echo the suggestion to pack easily portable snacks as well as a refillable water bottle.

    15. FJ*

      All the above comments look good
      + Noise cancelling headphones! They make plane rides so much more pleasant.
      ++ Finding one place to have fun on your off time
      ++ Looking nice, but comfortable (dark jeans) while traveling. I have definitely met colleagues on the boarding ramp when I didn’t know they were coming to events.

    17. SI*

      If your to-go container/doggie bag is aluminum, you can use the iron on the “linen” setting to reheat. Invaluable LPT.

    18. StarHunter*

      I use to travel quite a bit for work. Dressy black flats (if female) – went with everything I wore and a black blazer (always cold). Sneakers and exercise clothes so I could go for a morning walk or jog. A folder with my itinerary, hotel info, meeting/event info, etc. I also might wear or bring a nice pair of jeans/top for flying or when I have some down time. I also had a computer backpack for my laptop (much easier on the back & shoulders). And everything needs to fit into your carry-on because you never want to be separated from your luggage. Gives you flexibility when the inevitable hiccup happens and your flight is delayed or cancelled.

    19. Ghost Town*

      Supply of snacks, both for travel time and for your time on the ground.

      Electronically scout food options ahead of time. Be sure to check out what grocery-type options you have near you to replenish the snack supply or get a ready meal (salad bar, frozen dinner, what have you). (this kind of recon can also help you cut down on emergency sewing kits and other little things you have at home or in your office to deal with wardrobe malfunctions on the fly)

      Food. I try to eat a touch healthier than normal b/c travel + conference = crazy schedules and limited food choices. Sometimes, all the options are “bad” and I just feel better if my body has been getting enough water, veggies, and sleep before/during the travel and event.

      Hydrate. Take care to maintain or increase your water intake. Don’t overdo it on the caffeine or the alcohol. Personally, I tend to avoid alcohol for the duration, but one or two drinks over a reasonable period of time is fine.

      Do carve out some down/fun-time. Whatever is fun for you and will help you recharge from the constant craziness of staffing an event. Trashy tv, a very nice meal, a local museum, the hotel gym, whatever.

      Comfortable shoes. A couple of pairs.

    20. Totally Minnie*

      Plan your clothing choices in layers. Conference halls can have widely varying temperatures, so you want to be wearing something that looks nice and professional with or without the jacket/sweater.

    21. Hillary*

      Carry on always – you don’t want to be the person who makes the group wait at the baggage claim. I just got a Timbuktu travel backpack and love it, I’m planning to use that plus a purse on my next trip since it’s only four days.

      Small sample bottles for product are amazing (I bought a 20-pack of 10ML bottles and some syringes on Amazon) – I managed to get an entire week of product into a carry on with my own shampoo and conditioner.

      If you’re doing a lot of travel including international, Global Entry includes TSA Precheck and only costs $15 more.

      In terms of spares, I bring one extra pair of shoes, one extra shirt, and two extra sets of underthings. I like to travel in a sweatshirt dress and leggings in the winter, the boots I wear for work go well enough with it. My spare shoes are usually Toms or something equally collapsible, it’s not like I’m going to wear them in the plant.

      Speaking of the plant, I make space for my own earplugs and safety glasses because I don’t like the ones the company provides. If I have to wear safety shoes I wear mine on the plane (TSA Precheck helps here).

      Agree 100% on water bottles and snacks. Kind Bars are my go to right now because they’re very compact calories.

      Most importantly, remember if you’re with your coworkers work norms still apply, even if you’re at the third bar at midnight. Know your audience, it’s usually ok to say you’re tired and going to go collapse.

    22. Admin of Sys*

      +1 to everything everybody else has said. Since you’re traveling with other folks, figure out if folks are going to share meals, rental cars, taxis etc, so someone doesn’t get left behind. I found confirming the night before if folks were meeting for breakfast/traveling together the next morning to be easiest. (assuming you’re not so lucky as to be in the same hotel as the conference)
      If you’re a coffee addict, see if there’s a better coffee option than the hotel coffee w/in walking distance on the route to the conference location.
      If you can, bring clothes that don’t need drycleaned, so if a disaster hits, you can use the hotel laundry service.
      Def. feel free to use the hotel gym, but make sure your workout clothes are something you’d be comfortable wearing when a coworker or boss is on the next treadmill. Equally, assume a firedrill might cause you to run out of the room in you PJs or an annoying coworker will knock on your room at 11p and sleep in something modest (or have a robe handy).
      Def. stock the minifridge w/ healthier options if you have the chance – but confirm if you can get comped for grocery purchases or not. (honestly, when I was traveling for a month, it was worth it even if they didn’t cover everything, but check first!)
      This isn’t as big a deal since you said you’re traveling w/ coworkers, but make sure you have offline copies of all the important details, in case your phone / computer bricks on you. (or is stolen, etc) And on that note, check the policies / process for reporting stolen company equipment before you go, so you know if you should call corporate before calling the cops, jic.

  11. AP No Noir*

    I work for a company with locations in multiple states and found out that wages are adjusted for Cost of Labor, not Cost of Living; is that normal? I’m in an expensive area with low cost of labor (per HR’s stats), how am I going to attract good talent?

    1. Lance*

      What are the benefits like? Since it sounds like the compensation… really isn’t up to par for whatever silly reason your company has in their heads, you’ll need something else, and something tangible, to attract and retain actual talent.

    2. Leela*

      I’m sorry but you’re probably not. We had a similar issue working in Seattle as a tech company that was not Microsoft, Amazon, or any of the other big players out there. Our wages weren’t nearly as high but housing costs are skyrocketing and everyone is scrambling to figure out how to live and work there, even my friends who were talented, well-employed programmers were having a hard time.

      We’d attract people with what we did and our benefits, but we could almost always bank on them pulling out at the last minute because Microsoft, Starbucks HQ, etc, was going to pay them more than we could ever hope to pay. I think it’s wise, unfortunately, to go into this with the knowledge that your company IS at the whims of whether other companies are also hiring when you are. You can do things like look at your benefits, increase flexibility of hours, allow work from home, etc, but ultimately in an area that’s high cost of living salary is going to be the primary consideration for most people, even if they’re looking at the other ones. And I worry about you being held hostage to the employees you do have and feeling like you can never say no because you know that they can easily get a better-paying job. I’m sorry your company operates this way and I hope that this policy changes ASAP.

    3. Chaordic One*

      Actually, this is pretty common. When you’re dealing with low-skill labor that already lives in the area and where there isn’t much competition for work, it usually isn’t a problem. It becomes a problem when you need to attract higher-skilled labor from outside of the immediate area. Sometimes employers will try to promote the location by pointing out whatever amenities are available in the area. (Hunting, fishing, outdoor recreation, diversity, the arts, culture, restaurants.) It’s a problem.

    4. Evil HR Person*

      It’s a thing and, unfortunately, there’s not much to do about it. I used to work for a company that had offices in SW Florida, Dallas, Sacramento, and the mother office was in Puerto Rico. Guess who paid the least? Puerto Rico, and by a lot. Another company I worked for, part of a much larger conglomerate of media, paid such low wages to Florida folks that it was laughable. They recruited by pointing out how cool it is to live in Florida (and the company paid in sunshine and not much else). That’s, even though SW Florida is actually quite expensive and the housing market is almost the same as it is in Maryland (where I’m from).

      All that to say, it stinks! The company set its budget for wages before the new fiscal year, and they looked at the market rates for people doing the work at your location, and that’s what they went with. You may be able to ask for recruiting bonuses, and make a case for them if you have a particularly difficult position to fill.

    5. krysb*

      To add to everyone else’s points, you have to remember, we’re at low unemployment, too, so you have to be able to compete. Pay and benefits attract employees, especially in an employee/candidate market. If we fully move into an employee market, even low-skill workers may have a higher bargaining power than we have seen in the past couple of decades.

  12. Nervous Accountant*

    Ok so regarding the new guy from last week who wanted an evaluation 2 weeks in. I talked to my mgr about it and he told me that our boss really put a lot of pressure on him when he first started, saying that he really needs to get caught up ASAP. I don’t know the guys background or experience, but it makes a lot of sense to me why he’s like this. (It’s also possible I’m projecting my own experience in the beginning on this, constantly being in fear that I’ll be fired if a client complained).

    So far my mgr says his work ethic & work product is pretty good..it’s just that one thing. I’m super sympathetic but again….we just.dont.have.time for handholding. He has been much better this week though. Super nice guy.

    On another note, I feel like its just a small thing in a bigger picture….knowing my boss I wouldn’t be surprised if she did this on purpose to set new guy up to fail and then rub it in my mgr’s face that his team sucks and he can’t manage his team well.
    (I know this sounds crazy but I’ve been here for a while and can totally c this happening).

    just the politics of it all make me really…bleh. Like I don’t know why there’s so much pitting against each other..it’s one damn company, we all do the same exact work. It’s really..sad.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      This sucks.

      But it’s kind of what I suspected, they dumped a lot of pressure on him and he wants to know how he is doing so he is asking in the way he knows how to ask. What is a crock here, is that it takes two seconds to say, “Overall you are doing fine, keep going. We will talk about the day-to-day stuff as it comes up, no biggie on that.” I think it’s pretty crappy that no one can tell him that.
      This is why people leave companies.

  13. Roseberriesmaybe*

    My co-worker ‘Basil’ sees himself as completely in the right and the victim all the time, it is exhausting. No call, no show? “The boss has it in for me.” “He never texts me back when I say I’m not going to be in, so why bother?” Boss tries to confront him about lateness- “I had to calm him down and be adult since he wasn’t going to be.” Basil tries to rope the rest of us in with him as well. I…don’t know how to handle him

    1. fposte*

      Maybe just take your hands off of him? Let Basil be Basil. “It hasn’t been a problem for me, Baz; I gotta do these reports.”

    2. WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot*

      “Basil, its unprofessional to no call no show. At some jobs it can even get you fired. Even if he doesn’t text back, you at least made the effort on your end.” Always playing the victim is annoying, but politely calling him out may make him rethink things.

      1. Pollygrammer*

        “Just because he doesn’t respond doesn’t mean he isn’t checking. Have you asked him to text back to confirm?”

    3. neverjaunty*

      Do not engage! Make listening noises at him and then profess ignorance, as fposte suggests. Decline to RSVP to his pity party.

      1. Roseberriesmaybe*

        This is my current modus operandi- pleasant but noncommittal. The atmosphere is bad though. For instance, our boss “Manuel” has been out sick for two weeks-Basil has been loudly claiming he doesn’t think Manuel is really sick, but is using his sick leave for something else. Which is something Basil himself has done (and told us that he is doing). So I don’t know why he is criticising somebody else for it! Another example is that he had two ornamental dogs on his desk at one stage. He named one of them Manuel, because, as he loudly said, “It has something of a stupid look.”
        So I try not to encourage him, but it’s more the fact that management can’t seem to engage with him properly that is the sickener

        1. fposte*

          Then I think your goal is to reduce Basil to basically a buzzing fly in your attention. He’s just making noises–they don’t mean anything and you don’t have to pay attention to them.

          (I am intrigued to hear of the turnabout that made Manuel the boss. My money would have been on Polly.)

        2. Lance*

          ‘So I don’t know why he is criticising somebody else for it!’

          Deflection, pure and simple. Pointing out what other people are or might be doing in such a way in an attempt to push the negative attention away from himself and try and put it literally anywhere else. Basil knows fully well what he’s doing, and to be frank, if I was the manager, I’d be having a hard look at his performance and behavior.

        3. Thlayli*

          Just ignore him. Tell him you’re too busy to talk.

          FYI it’s really freaking me out having Manuel as the boss and Basil as the employee. My brain is glitching!

    4. Ambpersand*

      ugh, people like this. Extract yourself from him and the situation, and don’t engage if he wants to talk to you about it. You do you. All he wants an audience and isn’t going to stop.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      No call, no show? “The boss has it in for me.”
      “Basil that is standard for everyone. We all work under that rule.”

      He never texts me back when I say I’m not going to be in, so why bother?”
      “Basil, I am not clear on why you are asking me a question only the boss can answer.”

      Basil has been loudly claiming he doesn’t think Manuel is really sick.
      “oh, you mean like you do?”
      OR
      “No one else seems worried about this, Basil. Maybe you should talk to him about it instead of me/us.”

      “I had to calm him down and be adult since he wasn’t going to be.”
      “Basil, you know everything you say like that goes back to the boss, right? I mean someone here WILL tell the boss about these comments.”

      You might find it helpful if you factor in that you cannot cure this person. He is not fixable until he decides to change.
      What a bore. So very sorry.

    7. Kuododi*

      Oh I feel your pain!!!! I actually have a couple of idiot brother in law’s who have the same personality issues. Good rule of thumb…if you’re not their supervisor requiring a certain level of interaction just limit your contact with him to the absolute minimum necessary to complete your job tasks. You can only police your own behavior. Good luck!!!

  14. Snappy McGee*

    I think I’m past the point of no return with a coworker.

    He breathes very loudly, will snort/hack/cough every three minutes, and can’t seem to stop moving. He even drinks loudly, if that’s even possible. I’m trying to be nicer to him, but I’ve noticed myself starting to snap at him.

    If he asks me for help (about things that he should know- we’re at the same job level), he’ll call me over, give a very abbreviated description of the issue, and with a loud huff, throw up his hands. He will constantly interrupt me and others on the team, and tries to interject useful knowledge but it just ends up being 50% true and 50% misinformation.

    I’ve already resolved to call him out when he talks over me in meetings, but me snapping at him is a bad habit I need to break. Any advice on being polite and not snapping at him? I’m going crazy!

    1. Not So Super-visor*

      Can you be asked to move desks/offices? The guy probably can’t control the volume of his breathing or the fact that he needs to cough.

      1. Snappy McGee*

        Unfortunately we’re in the process of moving buildings, and right now everyone on my team is jammed into a conference room. It doesn’t help that I sit next to him and can’t get a break. Hopefully, we’ll be in the new building in 2 months and have better seating arrangements.

    2. Lil Fidget*

      Sorry – I really sympathize! – but I think you’re the issue at this point. Blame the open office for pitting us white collar workers against each other like rats in a cage. Somebody who just has personal habits that irk you – but is not malicious or doing something totally off the wall – is something you need to deal with on your own. Think of the terrible coworkers we’ve seen on this blog, who steal stuff, attack you physically, or lie to your boss about you. This guy just bugs you. Mindfulness, headphones, and recognizing what is good about your coworker are what I use. My cubemate blows loudly on his food every day and it makes me want to choke her, but it’s ultimately my issue, not hers.

    3. Pollygrammer*

      Try to separate what’s under his control and what isn’t. Disconnect in your head his actually performance issues from his obnoxious noises, which is can’t help. Aim for professional and work your way up to nice.

      1. JustaTech*

        Exactly! And if you never work your way up to nice, that’s OK. Make yourself a mental sign that says “Don’t Snap!” and if you can, try to reduce how much you interact with this person on anything not 100% work related.
        (I had a coworker like this who I was short enough with that my boss ended up talking with me about it. I resolved to be super-professional and tried to eliminate any kind of chit-chat. Sadly I got so good at it that I was stuck helping him on several projects because the other person simply could not stand him.)

    4. dr_silverware*

      Ugh, I need this too. Not for body sounds but for extreme social yuck-ness. What’s helped me most so far is privately going to a couple coworkers I trust to ask if I’ve been visibly snapping at him a lot and hearing that yes I have been. So knowing that other social pressure is there on me has actually helped a bit on that front.

    5. Argh!*

      Do you ask for his input? If not, he may feel like his only chance to be heard is to interrupt. If you interrupt yourself and ask if you’ve been clear so far, that gives him a chance to put in his 2 cents. Even if what he says isn’t valuable, at least you gain some control over the situation.

    6. a-no*

      I count backwards from 5 before I say anything. Often I find the instant-murder-rage that made me want to snap has tapered enough that I’m no longer snapping just speaking firmly.

    7. zora*

      The avoiding snapping: I have an impulsiveness issue, so I definitely know what you are talking about.

      I would think of the top questions he asks, and then write out a polite answer at a time when you are feeling calm. Then practice saying them in a mirror, and cultivate the most neutral tone you possibly can.

      It sounds like your seating situation is rough, but if you can find a way to keep the list where you can even look at it before you answer, that would be even better. But I find that if I have wording in my head already, that is the best way to avoid saying something frustrated and snappy.

      Good luck!!

    8. Babs*

      Oh my! My snort-hacker-snot sucking coworker just left our company. I cannot tell you how happy I am! The only thing that stopped me from attacking him was tryyyyiiing really hard to separate what he couldn’t help by habit or health issue. I also had to stop complaining to coworkers about it. Someone was at my cube and asked me “How can you stand sitting next to this snot sucker, throat clearer?” I said that if I wasn’t willing to tell him first and directly then I couldn’t tell anyone else about it either. I wasn’t willing to talk with him about it because the guy was a awful in every other way too. I wanted nothing to do with him, ever. They understood because they wanted nothing to do with him either.

      So I made a pact with myself that if I wasn’t going to talk to him about it, then I for sure wasn’t going to tell anyone else. Besides, they ALL already knew about it anyway because they were in meetings with him.

      1. Babs*

        If I were you and if I ever got a chance to discreetly move desks away from him, I would do it in a heart beat. My number one reason is that I am SOOOO much healthier without his germs wafting over the cubical wall. I have not had a cold since he left. I washed my hands and Lysol-ed my desk regularly when he was sick but he was like the plague and ohmygerd if you got stuck sitting next to him in a meeting.

      2. Plague of frogs*

        I’m glad those noises don’t only bother me. I timed my snort-coworker once when he was particularly bad. He was snorting, sneezing, or coughing on average once every ten seconds. Fortunately he is a super nice guy, and I am able to usually have sympathy for what he must be going through, but some days (when it’s loud enough that I can hear it through my earplugs) I just want to burst into his cubicle and spray him with nasal spray from a fire hose.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      I would target 2-3 of the most annoying things and just let the rest go for now.

      ” he’ll call me over, give a very abbreviated description of the issue, and with a loud huff, throw up his hands.”

      I have a friend who gets huffy over simple annoyances. I have taken to saying each time, “It’s not the end of the world, it’s just NOT.” I repeat the same sentence each time. I am starting to see him be a little more patient with simple things. You might try, “Bob, no need to get upset. We will get this.” Pick your go-to sentences and use it each time.

      ” He will constantly interrupt me”
      “Bob, I am not done speaking.”
      Again, same idea you create a go-to sentence and you use it each time.

      Usually snapping occurs when we have allowed something to go on for too long. It is possible that part of your upset is upset with your own self for not stopping it sooner. We can reduce our quickness to snap by building a plan for recurring issues and STICKING with the plan. See, if we don’t follow through on our plan, we let ourselves down. And there is no greater let down. Build your plan and stick to it or use maybe a slight adjustment for specific situation.

      You have an additional layer because this guy just sounds plain annoying. I try to remember that there are probably more than a few people who find me annoying and yet somehow they interact with me in a civil manner. So that is one idea for coping. Promising yourself to work on a couple of recurring problems is another way to break the strength of a bad habit.

      I know when I have been at a job for a while, I know it like breathing. I could do it in my sleep. When the Bobs of the world start getting under my skin I realize that I have too much available brain space. I need to find a new challenge with my own work. Find an external that helps to fill your mind.

  15. fposte*

    I ran into a really interesting older piece in the Chronicle of Higher Education that I thought might have some broader value. It’s a guy who had been an administratively involved professor who got an interview for a dean position, and he talks about moving from thinking he did well in the interview to understanding where he’d fallen short. It’s a really great assessment of how somebody can answer questions fluently but still fall short conceptually of what a hiring committee wants to hear, and I thought it had implications for a lot of higher-level candidacies outside of academics as well.

    I’ll post a link in followup.

      1. Weekday Warrior*

        Thanks for posting. It’s a great ‘self assessment and recovery from disappointment’ tale!

      2. JokersandRogues*

        That is pretty interesting. I’m not in academia but certainly has application to interviewing especially in listening to what the interviewer is saying.
        I had a boss once that would ask a question, listen to your answer, and say, “That’s great! Now, could you answer the question that I asked?” While this was a bit…rough sometimes (especially when you had to ask him to repeat it), it did teach me to listen to the actual question not the one I had in my head. Still have to remind myself sometimes as it’s a mind set more than anything.
        Thanks!

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, I thought that was super-interesting–that he went basically from “Wow, I answered the hell out of those questions” to “Oh, I really didn’t provide any kind of vision of how I’d lead their school.”

          1. Reba*

            Although after reading your comments, I laughed that he only took himself from a B+ to a B-.

      3. PieInTheBlueSky*

        I didn’t understand this comment that the author made: “Many Ph.D.’s can vividly remember, years later, the humiliation of interviewing for tenure-track jobs while trying to finish a dissertation.” I don’t understand why this would be humiliating. Can someone explain?

        1. fposte*

          In context, I think he’s talking about how those can be a bit of a cattle call and you are very much an economy traveler through the process; for this interview he was treated as business class.

        2. Elizabeth H.*

          That jumped out at me too even though I dropped out of grad school before having a chance to reach that stage! I kind of feel like it was mostly a poor word choice (I noticed a few others in his writing style). Humiliating is not exactly the right way to put it, I think. fposte mentioned the cattle call nature of that type of job search, and it usually involves a lot of feelings of desperation and anxiety with many people competing for the same job, at a stressful time of life with finishing a dissertation (and possibly working another job, having a family, being completely uncertain about where you will live the next year, etc.) And a lot of those interviews are conducted in hotel rooms at conferences where you sit across from each other awkwardly on twin beds or in mismatched chairs with everyone wearing suits. I think it can make the ABD grad students very conscious of their lowly status and feel almost like supplicants before the search committee and I think that’s the kind of feeling that the writer was trying to get at by using the word “humiliation.”

    2. fposte*

      BTW, you have to scroll down a ways for the really interesting stuff where he talks about what he did wrong; you can definitely skim until you see that.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      Ohhhh, I’ve had several of those moments. The big ones recently have been realizing after the fact that I was being asked where I would take the research, not just how I would address research questions. Subtle, but key for the kind of positions I was looking at and helped explain why I didn’t move forward.

      However, there’s a catch. I deliberately shied away from talking about where to go next because, well, hire me for my skills first before I start giving you answers like that. (The related versions would be, write this code for us or propose a new feature during an interview test, when the code/feature could easily be dropped into their product with or without you.)

      I think it’s different when it’s a director or manager position and the candidate is being asked “What’s your vision” or “What’s your management philosophy” – then you would/should talk about your personal big-picture approach and not just what you’ve done in the past or approach to very specific instances.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      His mistake is common enough , though. I think Alison cautions about using a global perspective when the interviewers really want to know, “What are you going to do for US?”
      Practicing answers at home can help bring us back down to earth and reorient to the particular company or organization.
      It looks to me like he got so lost in reading what they sent him that he forgot everything else. I can just see that happening to me, too.

  16. Folklorist*

    It’s your hey-I-remembered-to-do-this-two-weeks-in-a-row ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!!!
    You know that you’ve been putting off something tedious and it’s slowly growing in your brain, taking up space, increasing anxiety, and sucking away your happiness. Just minimize this screen, go and DO THAT THING, then come back here and brag about it! Discover the sweet bliss of freedom before the weekend!
    I’m off to hound some people about invoices. Blergh.

    1. Damn it, Hardison!*

      I am resolving IT tickets (not time sensitive, so I can let them build up). 30 down, 51 to go!

    2. SophieChotek*

      Instead of lurking here…I need to go write my mandatory weekly report of “what-I-accomplished” this week!

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Printed all the documents I’ll need for an interview next Wednesday. Since there really isn’t anything else to apply to right now, I need to clean the house, but that can wait a little bit.

    4. Deus Cee*

      Speaking of invoices, I have been avoiding paying an invoice for two weeks because I can’t get to grips with our new finance system. I have now thrown myself on the mercy of our finance team and asked for help, so hopefully this invoice will soon be paid!

      In other news I’ve caught up on a few orders, found a long-standing error in a database (not quite got as far as correcting it yet, that would be too efficient) and reached the bottom of my desk, which I’ve not seen for about 6 weeks! \o/

    7. MRK*

      Just put together and emailed a wholesale order I’ve been meaning to do. Now if only today wasn’t my Tuesday

    8. Gerber Daisy*

      I proofed the data one more time and finally submitted the entries into a third party database so that our products can get certified and into their system. I’ve been procrastinating as it’s the first time the company has done this and I was nervous about submitting it and finding out I’d done it wrong. I used all my resources to confirm but still nerve-wracking. Now to wait to hear back, but IT’S DONE!!

    11. Fenchurch*

      I finally reached out to the hiring manager for an internal position I applied for (2 weeks ago). I interviewed with her 2 years ago for the same role but was ultimately rejected. I’ve up-skilled since then and have 2 more years of experience. She already set up a lunch so we can catch up/talk!

      1. Bibliovore*

        Yearly self evaluation needs to be in next week.
        Financial audit.
        Final okay son a big event

    12. Mimmy*

      Finally registered for a conference I’ve been eyeing for months. Even when the registration opened in January, I didn’t jump on it right away because I’ve never gone to an out-of-state, multi-day conference before and I’ll be going alone. It’s not directly related to my job, but I mentioned to my supervisor that I was considering it, and she thought perhaps I could talk about it at a future staff meeting because the information would be useful in my field.

  17. KatieKate*

    My boss let me know that he remembered the conversation we had about a promotion and I’m getting bumped up a level! This includes a title change and some form of a raise, which I have no idea what the number would be. It still has to go through the higher ups but it’s nice to be appreciated!

    In other news….I’m still waiting to hear anything back from the colleague I emailed about the job I had previously applied for. At this point, I’m wondering if the email got lost? Because I haven’t gotten a “yes let’s chat about this” or a “no we’re still no interested.” So I don’t know what’s going on there and it’s been two weeks. Arg.

    1. Jess R.*

      Hey, congratulations! I’m glad you’re not only getting the promotion and raise, but that your boss remembered independently — that’s awesome!

    3. Irene Adler*

      Two weeks is long enough time that a follow-up is in order with your colleague. Email does get lost. It’s happened to me more than a few times.

      And nice that you are getting the title and promotion!

    4. undercover poster*

      That’s great news, congratulations to you! I relate to your feeling appreciated – I’ve been told in last year’s performance review, and then in the one I just had last week (both glowing reviews), that I’m ‘next on the list’ for a management position promotion. But the reality is that there’s no place for me to move up to. It’s frustrating.

  18. youremindmeofthebabe*

    My husband is moving from a regular FT job with benefits, to a PT job without benefits (other than a 401K) and will also be acting as a consultant for another company. This is his first time working as a consultant and he’ll have to keep track of his own hours, travel, invoices, taxes, etc. The company he’ll be consulting for is very small, but they are trying to help him learn the process. He’s already realized he’ll need a dedicated work laptop and a landline (our cell service at home is spotty) Is there anything he should know? It’s a giant leap he’s taking, and thankfully I can add him to my medical, but I’m a little unsettled because we’ve never had to deal with taking out taxes and whatnot before.

    1. Ambpersand*

      We do that with my husband and it’s a lot to keep track of. Quickbooks has a great (paid) app that helps to track expenses, hours, and mileage that will generate a nice & neat report for you when you’re ready.

      Also, try to do your taxes quarterly- it’s a lot easier in small chunks rather than one big bill come April.

      1. Natalie*

        I’m not clear on how much consulting he’ll be doing, but if it’s going to be around half of his income, he probably has to file quarterly to avoid an underpayment penalty at the end of the year.

      2. youremindmeofthebabe*

        I’m not sure how much of his income will come from the consulting, since all the details aren’t hammered out, but I’d heard about quarterly payments, so that’s definitely something we’ll check into.

        1. Reba*

          If he hasn’t already set rates, make sure they are nice and high, much higher than the ‘hourly’ rate he was making as a FT employee. Those self-employment taxes will hurt.

          I’m not sure if/how the new tax regs affect this, but do take a look at what can be deducted as business expenses, including use of a part of your home as an office.

          1. Natalie*

            Be extremely cautious with the home office deduction as the requirements are strict and it can be an audit flag. The home office has to be *exclusively* used for work – your dining room does not qualify!

    2. Nanc*

      Is there a Small Business Development Center near you? They are experts with helping folks setting up their own businesses. He should be able to set up a one-on-one counseling session with an advisor who will help with the ins and outs of all this stuff.

      You can search for local offices at https://www.sba.gov/tools/local-assistance

    3. alexa, set timer for ten minutes*

      One suggestion- talk to your cell service provider and see if there is an option to get a device for a signal booster. I had a friend who obtained a microcell from AT&T at no cost to him, and it made a huge difference in his reception at home.

    4. Admin of Sys*

      Tracking billable hours is a pain (or it was for me, back when I had to do it). It’s probably worth it for him to check if they want clear lines or if he can multitask and estimate after the fact. If it’s dedicated effort only, I’d suggest he find an app he likes and practice with it – anytime he sits down to ‘work’ clock in, clock out if he gets up to go somewhere, etc. It’s a pain but it’s absolutely worth it looking back at the week and trying to figure out how much of the time was overhead vs admin vs billable, etc.
      Also – get clear rules on what is and isn’t billable back to the company! Obviously things like lunch aren’t, but verify ahead of time if meetings are billable or not – it goes either way with consultants. Same with things like time spent being trained.

    5. Sam Foster*

      If he’s going 1099, it’s not just quarterly estimated payments but the “self-employed tax” for SSI, etc. that you have to worry about.

    6. it's all good*

      trust me. set aside 50% for income tax (quarterly) and self employment taxes (annually). he will have to pay both the employee and employer portion, 15%.

  19. Nervous Accountant*

    On a positive note—

    Major deadline passed yesterday…yasss
    -our company provided us with 15 minute massages every Friday for a few weeks…LOVE
    -We’ve been getting cash literally every day for meeting certain quotas which is pretty nice
    -My mgr took care of awful client for me….yay!
    -put in a request for 2 weeks off (have to go to home country to deal with issues related to dad’s death)…not a vacation vacation but I was super scared of pushback which didn’t happen thank goodness so yay to that.

    2. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      When I was at a CPA firm, the tax dept always got some relief after the 3/15 deadline. Then they collapsed after the 4/15 one! Hang in there.

  20. Jess R.*

    We have 3 large printers in my office & we print something on the order of 40,000 sheets per day. Because humans are weird and can pack bond with anything, I’ve decided to name the printers. So far, Printer 1 is Tessa and Printer 2 is Chris. Printer 3 is slightly smaller than the others and she doesn’t have a name yet. Suggestions?

    Also, incredibly, I just got permission from my team lead to spend some of my down time today making name tags for the printers. What a time to be alive.

    1. NJ Anon*

      We have great overall benefits but the best is the 3 for 1 401k match, the bonus program and the employee stock plan. “Producers'” bonuses are based on how much business they bring in. Us administrative types get more merit based bonuses. Something really horrible would have to happen for me to leave.

    7. Louise*

      Oh man I worked at an office with this horrifying printer that would always jam. We called her Bessie.

      1. Tuna Casserole*

        I had a printer we called HAL because it wouldn’t do what we wanted. One of our printers now is called Bob Marley, because it always be jammin’. :P

    11. Garland not Andrews*

      Itty. One of the feral cats near my home is named that because she is tiny. Actually it is Itty Bob because her tail is only about 3 inches long!

    12. Jess R.*

      A quick Google search for punny printer names suggested Bob Marley (because it’s always jamming) and I am sorely tempted to rename Chris. I’ll still need a good name for printer 3 though.

          1. zora*

            Except I feel like there’s a lack of gender diversity, and that’s sad, but I can’t think of a punny women’s name.

            1. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

              Inkerbell?
              Printsess?
              Minnie O. Graff?
              Technotronic (Pump up the Jam, yanno)

    16. Princess Scrivener*

      Cottage-cheese-for-lunch snort. I love sunny Fridays where my boss says we can leave early (31 minutes to go), and perfect strangers make me laugh. You all rock!

    18. As Close As Breakfast*

      An old coworker and I named our photocopier Pat. Short for Patrick or Patricia. He/She can be cajoled, complimented, or cussed out in whatever way we desire given how we’re feeling that day. It’s stuck for several years.

    19. Nina*

      I would go with Tom or Mark.

      Unless you’re going with character names. If the printer is driving you crazy, I would go with Loki.

  21. Revamping retirement planning with a big raise...*

    I am about accept a new job with a $30k+ pay raise! I am very excited about it, but am nervous about how this changes my retirement strategy. For context, I am a 30 year old woman who is going from a salary in the high 40s to one in the low 80s. My current retirement savings hovers close to $80k. I am planning to max out my 401k with my new job (right now, I contribute around 10% + about 3k/ year into an IRA), but I don’t know what else I can do to to feel on track. All of the calculators I am using say I am behind given my upcoming income.

    Are there any calculators or ways to think that can help with this significant pay bump?

    1. fposte*

      There are a few different ways of looking at it. One recommended approach is that half of any raise goes to retirement funding–can you do that? That would allow you to max out your IRA and maybe max out your 401k, depending on the exact numbers; if you can just keep doing that, you’ll be in great shape. (And honestly, you’ve already started earlier than a lot of people, and starting early is a *huge* advantage.)

    2. ExcelJedi*

      Were you getting along fine in the 40’s? Or would you have in the 60’s?

      I had a similar situation at 29, and I put about 60% of my pay bump directly into my 401k. Since I never saw the money in my paycheck, I didn’t notice that it was gone. I’m still a little low on where I should be for savings (since I keep going back to nonprofit work with lower paychecks), but I think I would have caught up by now if I had stayed in that job.

      1. Revamping retirement planning with a big raise...*

        I had some indirect help from my parents (like driving their car and being on their cell phone plan). I did manage to save the difference, which is what put me ahead of the curve, originally. I am hoping to start contributing to those things on my own and maybe even taking on the family cell plan in my name to pay them back.

        It’s such a major change in salary and I will finally be at a point where I feel like I can start taking care of my family, that I am unsure how to balance everything, along with my long term goals for financial security….

    3. KatieKate*

      Unless you have debt to pay off, I would just make sure you don’t change your spending pattern too dramatically. Max out your 401k, IRA, and HSA (if you get one with the new job) and then invest/save the rest.

      It’s more of a question of 1. when do you want to retire, 2. how much do you want to have when you retire, 3. factoring in compound interest, how far away are you from being on track to that goal?

      1. Ashley*

        Yes. Most retirement calculators are based on a percentage of your salary as money needed in retirement. You might also look into sitting down with a financial planner to help you look at the full picture and consider other things you should be saving for and an investment strategy. Congrats on the new job!

    4. Natalie*

      I don’t know that you need to worry too much about the calculator. If it only started saying you’re behind because your salary went up, then it’s probably using your current salary as a proxy for how much income you’ll need in retirement. That’s obviously an imperfect proxy.

      That said, if you were living comfortably on your previous income, stay around that level of expenses. If you max out both of your retirement accounts and still have liquid money, go ahead and save or invest outside of your retirement account! Maybe you’ll use it for something 10 years from now, maybe you’ll use it for retirement 40 years from now. Who knows.

    5. Master Bean Counter*

      Those retirement calculators are wonky. I’ve only found one or two of them that can look at a whole picture. Usually they over-estimate the money you need to save, because financial planners make more money that way.
      That said, if you can, save. I’d recommend putting some of the money away in a Roth IRA. That way if you need the money before retirement you can withdraw it penalty free, but the interest remains as tax differed income. This is a great way to save money for both retirement and down payment for a house.

  22. Madison*

    Any ever dealt with major illness and how to tell your boss and coworkers? I haven’t been feeling well for a while. My blood test results are pointing to cancer. I am having a bone marrow biopsy soon. I just feel like I’m lying by not telling the people I work with, but I also don’t want it to be made into a big deal. Should I start mentioning it now so they understand why I’ve been a little distracted or do I wait until I know for sure? Which could still be a month away.

    1. Jess R.*

      This isn’t really advice, but I hope you remember that you don’t owe anybody the details of your health or medical treatment. You’re not lying by choosing not to tell them. It’s up to you if and when you divulge this info.
      Sending good thoughts <3

    2. fposte*

      First, I’m really sorry you’re dealing with this, and my best wishes for you.

      I don’t think you have to tell anybody if you don’t want to. You’re not lying to people by not telling them something you don’t know either, and distraction doesn’t automatically require explanation. You can also, if you choose and you trust your manager and/or relevant co-workers, say “I’m getting some health tests done but I’d kind of like to keep the process private and low-key; I’ll tell you more if there’s more to tell.”

    3. Anonymous Poster*

      If you’re distracted now, I’m all for preempting it with your boss. You don’t need to go into details, but a simple, “I wanted to give you a heads up, I’m dealing with a medical issue and I know I’ve been distracted. I don’t know right now when it will resolve, but once I have more information to pass along on that, I will do so.”

      You don’t owe them details on your diagnosis or anything of the sort, but it marks you as a conscientious employee if you acknowledge that you aren’t at your best right now because of a medical issue. Most people understand both that you will be distracted and that you don’t want to give too many details – if they’re reasonable, that’s probably where this will end.

      Be ready for a, “How can we support you?” or “Do you need something offloaded for right now?” sort of question. They’re not looking to shove you off, but give you the bandwidth to deal with your issue while making sure the work gets done.

      Best of luck. We’re pulling for you.

      1. Competent Commenter*

        I agree with this post and the others below that advocate for a “heads up, I have a medical issue” approach. More detail opens the door to a lot of complications. If it’s not cancer, you might feel like you look bad to other people for worrying about nothing (not saying it’s worrying about nothing, just that this would be my concern based on what I fear others will think of me!).

        If it is cancer, they’ll have a lot of questions about prognosis and treatment and these things often unfold in very confusing ways. You might not want the burden of managing those questions and updating everyone as you get more news. But not saying anything at all won’t serve you if you’re distracted and need a little extra understanding right now and have to deal with worrying that people will notice—that’s such a burden in itself.

        I feel like the non-specific approach gives you what you need without costing you anything. You deserve all the “freebies” you can get right now. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this and wish you the absolute best.

    4. DayVee*

      I’m sorry you have to go through this.

      I think it depends on the culture you work in. When I was diagnosed with cancer I felt fortunate to have a good manager whom I trusted. It was in the wonky “Yes, we’re pretty sure that you have this illness but we haven’t yet determined what treatment you will need” stage. I trusted my manager (and his manager) enough to go to them immediately and felt like it was the wise thing to do because I wanted to know what support I would get from the organization, and also because I knew if I did need any significant time off it would affect my co-workers, as well. I was lucky that I ended up only needing surgery to resolve my specific case, so I never needed to go beyond that.

      I completely understand not wanting to make it a big deal. To this day I have only told a small handful of people outside of my immediate family, after more than five years. I think you have the right to that privacy if that’s what you choose. It’s up to you to decide how much to tell anybody but how much you really NEED to say and to whom will be a factor of the treatment that you need.

    5. NW Mossy*

      If you’ve got a good relationship with your boss and feel confident that she’ll keep quiet about it if you ask her to, I’d encourage telling her, at least. I managed an employee through a cancer diagnosis and the early stages of his treatment, and his openness with me meant that I was able to help him make the necessary adjustments to his schedule around doctor’s appointments during the diagnosis phase and rejigger our medium-term plans for him to allow for what was to come for treatment.

      He eventually did tell the team once he had a defined treatment plan in place and was getting geared up for it, just so they’d understand the why behind his schedule and workload changes.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        This will also help your boss manage questions/nosiness from other people. If you have the kind of relationship with your boss that NW Mossy describes, it may help you a lot to have your boss in your corner. Best of luck!

    6. Nonprofit Lady*

      So sorry you’re going through this. I think Jess R is right- you don’t owe anybody an explanation. But if it’s weighing on you, and you’d rather your coworkers or boss know something, I think you could say something like, “I’ve been going through some health issues lately. I’m working to figure out what’s going on, but in the meantime, I might seem a little off, and I wanted to let you know why.” And then if they are being nosy, you just say, “I’d rather not get into the details, but I’m working on figure out what I need to do to get healthy.”

    7. OperaArt*

      You don’t have to tell.

      I was dealing with cancer 10 months ago. I learned that if you are in the US and you choose to tell your boss because of needing accommodations, cancer falls under the ADA. You have protections covering what the boss can say to other people. However, many managers don’t know this. My good boss didn’t until I pointed him toward the requirements.

    8. EB*

      I’m a cancer survivor– I was very open with my boss from the point I became aware that something was definitely not right. My turnaround time was pretty short though– I went from my initial doctor visit to surgery and diagnosis within a week. I was out for two weeks after surgery and after that worked at home and in the office as I felt I was able to.

      In my case, I told my boss it was okay to tell people what was going on while I was out and that I honestly did not want it to be a big thing. By the time I was back in the office I was glad I’d done that, the shock seemed to have worn off with everyone and they were great about not asking a ton of questions or treating me in unusually. Of course, YMMV depending on your office culture, but I was really happy with how everyone behaved, it helped me to feel normal while I went through chemo.

      Good luck with your testing– as a member of the cancer club I sincerely wish that you WON’T be joining us!

    9. Lora*

      Yes. Multiple times.

      1) Unless you know someone quite well and are 100% sure of how they will react, you may wish to keep this info to yourself. People are really weird about cancer specifically, regardless of whether it’s a weird mole that will be removed and you’ll live to the age of 120 and die in a freak accident involving shellfish, a juggling clown and a Maserati or whether it’s Stage IV pancreatic doom and you’re checking off your bucket list. People are just weird about it. The second diagnosis, I just didn’t tell anyone other than a couple of close friends because the stress of dealing with *other people’s reactions* was not worth it. Like, excuse me but I’m the sick one? But people unload all their personal fears of mortality on you. Even if you’re probably going to be OK. Or if there’s a good chance you won’t be OK and you really don’t want to hear their personal angst because proximity to death does not make you a fking therapist.

      2) Also if you are not 100% certain that your boss’ reaction will be supportive and helpful, maybe tell HR first that you will be needing FMLA/short term disability information for a Serious Illness. Just in case your boss is a d-bag, it’s good to have the company policy and what all your doctors need to do for that ready to hand. I needed HR to tell my boss that no you WILL let her out of work at precisely 4:00 for chemo, this is non-negotiable, nobody cares about your opinion. Your bosses won’t be upset just because you asked for the info if they are reasonable, and probably doesn’t know it off the top of her head anyways. Once you know what the treatment plan will be, then you can give boss and HR a better idea of what benefits you’ll be needing to use and specifically what time off you’ll need and how to classify it. I would err on the side of “wait until you know what the treatment plan is” though. Otherwise, see point 1.

      3) Be very clear with your boss about what you would like them to say and not say to colleagues about why you are out. In fact you may wish to tell the boss only exactly what you would like them to tell colleagues, because chances are they will tell everyone everything anyways. I thought it was very nice of my workplace to send me flowers and a get well card on the day of my big surgery. I did not think it was very nice that everyone knew EXACTLY what the surgery entailed and the resulting very personal questions.

      4) Know very precisely how far your desk is from the restroom and whether you may wish to move to be a closer sprint. This may not end up being necessary, as anti-nausea drugs have gotten MUCH MUCH better since my first Dx; by the time the second Dx rolled around it was the tiredness that got me instead. But it’s still good to know. If you have a company nurse on site, they can be a help, especially when it comes to determining your work duties, because operating heavy equipment when you are passing-out exhausted is no fun at all and even worse when your a-hole boss is complaining that you’re just being lazy and not getting work done as fast as he’d like.

      5) You’re going to be immunocompromised, and the very good expensive Amgen products that mitigate it can’t do everything. That means anyone who comes to work with a sniffle needs to be kept very far from you. You’re going to have zero sense of humor about people sneezing and not washing their hands. You know today’s thing about lack of handwashing? Nobody can touch the things on your desk but you. NOBODY. No potluck meals. Wash hands religiously.

      Also you may wish to think about how you’re going to get to work if you need chemo/radiation. I may have driven my car off the road a couple of times and dinged a couple of guard rails falling asleep while driving. I’m just saying.

      1. Betsy*

        I can’t believe bosses would be jerks about letting people out on time for chemo! I’m livid. I’m so sorry that’s something that happened to you!

        1. Lora*

          Eh, he got canned for basically Being A D-Bag some months after. Hasn’t held on to a job longer than a year since then. So, what goes around comes around.

          Oh yeah, OP you may wish to think about how you would feel if you came to work and people were all “look I shaved my head for cancer!” Because you might not lose all your hair, mine just got really thin and awkward to style, and the whole pink everything and ribbons and crap just kinda weirded me out. It was really not at all the kind of attention I wanted. Like, I’m glad that they were thinking good thoughts and concerned and stuff, but me personally I just wanted to go back to my normal life as much as possible except with more naps. I was spending half my time off at the doctor’s office / in the chemo chair anyways, and work was sort of a refuge and distraction where I could think about other things, other than the hamster-wheel thoughts about being sick. YMMV.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      My husband had cancer.

      He started by telling the boss he had a problem, he had a health issue that demanded checking into. This allowed the boss to be fair in assessing his requests off from work, his work itself and so on.

      My husband okayed the boss telling the department this overview so they would be on track also.

      Time went on and the situation got worse. Seriously worse. At this point he told the boss the whole truth and allowed that the boss could inform others. (He was not at work.)

      I believe in the importance of delegating as necessary. Sometimes assigning one person the responsibility of telling others is the route to go. What it also means is telling people what they need to know just in the time frame they need to know it. It’s a bit nerve wracking if you start thinking about how people need lead time on some stuff. Try not to get too lost in this line of thought. It won’t help you. Do what you can, as you can and let the rest go.
      Focus on what your needs are for the next week or two. Then at the end of that time frame plot out what your needs will be for the next time frame whatever time frame makes sense at that point.

      Sending you many good vibes for health and calming. Let us know how it’s going for you.

    11. Totally Minnie*

      When I got my diagnosis, I told my boss and my immediate team, but no one else. If you want to tell your boss before you get your results back, you could just say that you’ve had some medical tests done and that waiting for the results has been stressful. You can bring up the Big C or keep it vague, whatever you feel most comfortable with. That should help to explain if you seem more distracted or slower to respond than normal. You don’t have to do that if you don’t feel comfortable with it, but your post makes me feel like you might want to talk about it. And you can ask your boss to keep it between the two of you if you think that’s a thing they’ll be able to do (I don’t mean legally or policy-wise, I had a boss at one point whose personality made secret-keeping difficult. I would not have told her anything like this if I didn’t want the entire office to know by lunchtime).

      I absolutely understand the simultaneous need to talk about it and desire to not think about it. Cancer was a word that was really hard to apply to myself. That’s a thing that happens to other people, not me. Above all, try and stay off Google. You’ll end up in the rabbit hole of worst case scenarios, and that’s not a great place to be.

      I’m pulling for you, Madison.

    12. Ama*

      So last summer I had a mysterious illness that they also thought might be cancer (it wasn’t, but they couldn’t tell for sure until I had surgery). I did tell my boss pretty early on, because the appointment where they gave me my test results and wanted to send me to consult with a surgeon immediately was early on a work day so I needed to let her know I wasn’t going to be in later as planned and at that point I was in such a state of panic I barely realized what I was saying. But she kept it very quiet; only our COO (who handled our HR at the time) was told and she was initially only told that I was having a major health issue and might need some extra assistance (as it happened I was in the middle of trying to hire an admin).

      I mostly told others beforehand that I was having a surgical procedure and would be out for a few weeks to recover — after the surgery resulted in good news I was a little more open with people (had it been cancer I would have had to come up with a way to explain the ongoing issue). I suspect several of my coworkers knew something was wrong because I lost almost 25 pounds in six weeks pre-surgery and looked terrible but I work with pretty awesome people so they were nice enough not to pry unless I volunteered information (I suspect some may have made discreet inquiries to my boss but I trusted her to handle that).

      I hope everything turns out okay. The wait for my surgery was so difficult.

    13. it's all good*

      I’m sorry to hear this. I just took my dad for a bone marrow biopsy today. Now waiting for two weeks is the next step. – Not the same but I told my clients I might be changing my schedule because of helping my dad and I’m fortunate everyone was supportive. (Also, everyone I know that has had multiple bone marrow biopsies and my dad from today state there is no pain, just some pressure. I hope this procedure goes well for you too). I also hope for good news for you.

    14. Faintlymacabre*

      Not quite the same, but I found out I needed to have major surgery during my thesis writing- my thesis advisor who generally was a flake and unhelpful (I named my eye twitch after her!), really stepped up and took care of a lot of the red tape stuff that the school needed for my absence and recovery. So people can surprise you. Also, she took care of notifying people affected by my absence, which was really wonderful for me. Hoping you can get the same help, and best wishes however it turns out.

    15. Anon for Cancer*

      I went through cancer last year: tests, chemo, surgeries, radiation. I’m so sorry that you are going through this. I agree with others who have said you should tell your boss that you’re going through medical issues and don’t know yet what your outcome will be.

      I told a couple of coworkers when I was having follow-up appointments. I was really scared. Then when I was diagnosed, I told my boss and a couple more people.

      About a week later, I told dozens more people in a mass email. The reason was that I am head of a department that a lot of people rely on. I needed people to be lenient and understanding with me.

      I ended up needing a lot of time off for appointments, as well as just rest and recuperation. My bosses and coworkers were absolutely wonderful.

      This is a scary time, but I encourage you to get support and understanding where you need it.

  23. Not Today Satan*

    For those who have job hunted recently (or are), how has the job market been for you and what is your experience level?

    I’ve been a manager for a year (but my title is team lead- barf), an analyst for 4 years before that, plus a few years of lower level experience. I have a B.A. and an M.A. in things unrelated to my field. I have strong data (SQL and Excel) skills but not enough experience for most data jobs, lol. I’ve mostly been applying to program manager-level jobs but have been having almost no luck. I had a phone screen yesterday and the HR rep told me her only concern was that I was overqualified! I didn’t expect to hear that. I’m not sure whether she’s off the mark or if I really should be aiming higher.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      I have noted a dearth of job postings to even apply to in my field (nonprofits). I wonder if people are anxious and twitchy because of government churn, which has a bearing on the future likely funding. I don’t see a lot of programmatic jobs posted, it’s all development (fundraising) or communications positions.

      1. Not Today Satan*

        I’m in nonprofit too and also constantly see development jobs. It seems like everything is ever development or direct service. I have seen a handful of what I thought were fits but barely ever get called. You’re right that they might not be hiring anyone at all. Sigh.

        1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

          Look carefully at those development jobs – especially in big orgs or universities, a development department might post jobs for roles doing communication, office management, financial oversight, administration, etc. I work in fundraising but a lot of the jobs I see tagged as “development” are actually other various roles, just for the development department.

    2. Code Monkey, the SQL*

      I’m wondering the same thing. I think my company might be headed for some rough times, so I’m trying to put feelers out, but the jobs either come back with “We’d like a passionate self-starter who loves complicated problems, knows six programming languages, has an MS in Statistics or equivalent experience in AI development, who will travel 90% of the time” or “Junior Analyst. Must relocate to Amityville.”

      Supposedly, healthcare is the field to look at right now, but I’m not finding anything worth trying.

      1. Not Today Satan*

        Lol, I love that you’re a data person too because I see SO many jobs that I don’t qualify for (e.g. require a Statistics masters, 35 coding languages, etc.) but pay even less than what I make at a nonprofit. WTF?

        1. Code Monkey, the SQL*

          I’m trying to keep plugging, since I know the ads are often Santa wishlists rather than “Must Know or Fail Job” lists, but really, I don’t love my field enough to put in the time it would take to learn R and Python and C++, just to try to impress a hiring manager who can’t open his own email.

      2. Windchime*

        I’ve been a data person (mostly SQL but other stuff as well) for almost 20 years, and all of it in healthcare. You might not see those jobs on Indeed or Linked in; I found my current job by going directly to the “Careers” link on my now-employers website. Check your local hospital and clinics websites; almost every facility of any size at all will have an IT or Finance department who deals with data.

    3. Q*

      Overqualified. I heard that too many times before I dumbed down my resume and removed my MBA. I ended up with a job several levels below what I am capable of but its a job! That pays me! And I have health insurance! I’m actually enjoying just being one of the regular folks and only responsible for myself.

    4. Bea W*

      Job market in my field (pharma/biotech) is crazy hot right now. I really worry the bubble will burst in spectacular fashion.

    5. SophieChotek*

      Terrible. But I do think some of my issue is my resume and cover letters aren’t great. I have been trying to apply call the advice, etc. here but apparently don’t have it quite nailed.

      I probably should drop my unrelated grad degrees from my resume, but then I have a very bizzare and short job history.

      1. Not Today Satan*

        I’m sorry it’s been so tough for you as well. I don’t get it since the unemployment rate is supposedly so low.

        2. Fortitude Jones*

          The unemployment rate isn’t counting people who’ve stopped filing and/or never filed to begin with because they either never worked or worked positions that don’t report unemployment claims.

        3. it's all good*

          ^ this. during the recession I went through all my unemployment benefits without a job. I called the unemployment office and I asked if I was still counted as looking for work and they said NO because I was not collecting benefits. I told them I should still be included and then the line was silent.

    6. ThatGirl*

      I got a new job last summer after being laid off about a year ago.

      I had 13 years experience. I also got “outplacement services” as part of my severance that helped with my resume and networking. I got a lot of phone interviews, a moderate amount of in-person interviews, got to the final round on 4 jobs and got offered three (one was not a real option for me; mercifully, the two good offers came within a couple days so I was able to take the one I really wanted). All told it took me about 4 1/2 months. I was… slightly picky? I was trying to stay within a certain driving range and salary level, but wasn’t too picky about the type of company.

      Dunno if that helps but that was my experience, anyway. :)

    7. Frustrated Optimist*

      I am mid-career and have been job searching for close to three years. Thankfully, I am still employed.

      So much of what I am seeing is patently entry-level, or alternatively, the company says they want someone with experience and a specialized skill set, but the *pay* amounts to entry-level.

      I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I may need to take some level of pay cut to switch jobs, but I can’t go from $60K to $40K, which is what a lot of these jobs pay. It’s maddening, and, at times, terrifying.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Yes, what is that? In nonprofit I’m routinely seeing ED and other director-level jobs for 40-60K, in our very expensive city.

    8. alannaofdoom*

      I was job-hunting last spring (basically April/May onwards) and landed an offer in early August – I was coming from a decade (ugh, I know) with a small and dysfunctional company so my titles were all “assistant” but ultimately that translated closer to “associate” as my current role – basically one step below director level.

      Re: your data skills, have you considered looking at retail companies? I work for a large department store co. (in planning) and almost every area of the company has folks in charge of data analysis who build reporting tools in SQL and Excel for their divisions. Might be a good fit for your skills! Retail in general had a strong fourth quarter so my sense is that the job market is a little friendlier now than it was 6 or 12 months ago.

    9. Chaordic One*

      There are a lot of openings and advertisements where I live, but…

      there’s an awful lot of competition for the better paying jobs that I qualify for. I’m sure I would be employed right now if I weren’t so picky, but at my age I don’t really want to work retail and there are some jobs that are a bit too physical for me. (If I were 20 years younger, maybe.)

      Employers still seem to be picky and want to hire younger people. (IMO)

    10. RestlessRenegade*

      My ex is in his 4th month of unemployment. He has 5+ experience in his field and has had several interviews but no offers. A few have said they will get in touch but never did. I think he is overqualified for the jobs he is applying for and there are a lot of people here who need work, but it has been rough for him.

  24. That Cat Lady*

    So my cat is having kittens and a work colleague has asked if she can have one. Only problem is she already has a very unfriendly rescue cat (which in my opinion she slightly neglects) and a dog who she absolutely dotes on. She’s one of those people who gets very swept up in and idea and then gets bored of it so I’m concerned both that the kitten would be a fad that she’d get bored of and that it might be terrorised by her existing pets/ young children especially considered that I have neither dogs not children so it would be unused to them.

    Is there any way to politely decline this (personal) request without disrupting our professional relationship.

    1. Manders*

      I’d go with a polite white lie, like saying your other friends have already called dibs on all the kittens. This does mean that you can’t turn around and ask other people at work if they want a kitten, but I think it’s worth that inconvenience to keep the peace. I definitely don’t think you should feel obligated to give a kitten to someone who doesn’t seem to be taking good care of her current cat.

      1. k.k*

        That’s the approach I would take. It might take some effort keeping up the white lie, like making sure you don’t slip up and mention to someone that you’re still housing them, but it’s well worth the safety of that cat. I just don’t think there is a way tell her your concerns truthfully without pissing her off. She sounds like a bad pet owner, and people like that don’t typically take criticism well.

      2. That Cat Lady*

        I think you’re right. I don’t think there’s any way I can approach this truthfully that won’t offend her so I guess I’m going to have to tell her they’re spoken for and then keep any people asking for kittens/ advertising on the down low especially at work. I don’t see her outside work so hopefully it should be fairly easy to keep under wraps…

    2. Anony*

      Are you giving kittens to anyone else at work or otherwise advertising the available kittens? If not, you could say that all the kittens are already spoken for, or at least that you have had many people tell you they want kittens and you will get back to her after you know how many kittens you have which will turn out to be not enough for her to have one.

      1. Pollygrammer*

        Even if there’s someone else at work you want to give a kitten to, as long as you can get them to fib that they made their request earlier I don’t think it would be a problem.

        Or maybe you want to keep the kittens in pairs? Or they turn out to have some kind of health problem?

    3. Anonymous Poster*

      Didn’t you know they’re all spoken for already? Because they’re all spoken for already.

      Sorry that there isn’t another kitten available for you, Ms. Work Colleague! Anyway, back to the TTP project…

    4. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      Don’t count your kittens before they’re hatched (ok mixed metaphors, but you get the idea). Please don’t give her, or anyone else you think unworthy, a kitten. And sqeee! baby kittes are so cute.

      Also, totally off topic, please get mama, papa (if you have papa), and all babies spayed/neutered when its appropriate. There’s so many unwanted kitties, spay/neuter really makes a difference. (Unless you’re deliberately breeding a purebred, in which case I assume you’re doing it responsibly, vet involved, etc.)

    5. Marvel*

      I’d tell her that you have some other people who are interested who you’re waiting to her back from, but you’re happy to jot her down on the “maybe” list. And then just adopt out all the kittens to other people.

  25. Andi*

    The other day I came across a book that was a collection of terrible job applications. Thought I’d include some here for your amusement. Obviously there’s no way to verify whether any/or all of these are real, a few years ago I may have doubted their authenticity, but after reading this site for a while I’m quite ready to believe them!

    Amusing (horrifying?) stories:
    – We hadn’t advertised a vacancy but one eager jobseeker managed to find the names and home addresses of five members of the board. Having cut out letters from newspaper headlines in the manner of hate-mailer or hostage-taker, he sent each of them a series of enigmatic notes that gradually spelled out ‘Joe Chang is going to blow you away!’. The first note just said ‘Joe’, the second ‘Joe Chang’, the third ‘Joe Chang is’, and so on. The penultimate letter proved particularly alarming.
    – I received a 412-page covering letter that was mostly the cut-and-pasted musings of an African tribal elder on the secret healing powers of golden eagles.

    Quotes from resumes/cover letters:
    – I have set up my resume to be sung to the theme tune of The Brady Bunch
    – My time is valued at $180/hour, so please bear this in mind when deciding how long to make the interview. I do not offer ‘mates’ rates’.

    This one is probably the worst:
    – I refer to the recent death of the technical manager at your company and hereby apply for the replacement of the deceased manager. Each time I apply for a job, I get a reply that there’s no vacancy, but in this case I have caught you red-handed and you have no excuse because I even attended the funeral to be sure he was truly dead and buried before applying. Attached to my letter is a copy of my CV and his death certificate.

    Yikes!

    2. Snark*

      “My time is valued at $180/hour, so please bear this in mind when deciding how long to make the interview. I do not offer ‘mates’ rates’.”

      “Dear Applicant: Apparently we cannot afford you. All the best.”

      1. Thursday Next*

        This is an actual strategy people have used in apartment hunting in NYC (and probably other tight markets)—reading the obituary pages to identify available apartments (particularly rent-controlled ones). It is macabre!

        1. boo bot*

          Yeah, but you don’t go up to the pallbearers and ask for a showing!

          You ask the second-tier mourners if they’ve heard what’s happening with the apartment, *then* finagle an introduction to the immediate survivors.

          … I’m just kidding. That doesn’t work anymore. By the time you read the obit, the dead person’s niece or cousin or something has already taken over the lease. If you want an apartment you have to murder someone you already know.

    4. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Oh my god I am laughing silently at that first one! Even aside from the fact that the whole project is BANANAS, I’m vaguely surprised that he didn’t get to that penultimate letter and go “wait… that’s not right…”

    5. Anony*

      How did the last one get the death certificate! “Dear applicant, we may have an opening but you have seriously creeped us out”

      1. WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot*

        You can request a death certificate of just about anyone, but you have to pay for it which makes it even worse!

      3. Elan Morin Tedronai*

        If I wasn’t concerned about my own job security I’d write this:

        “Dear Applicant,
        Thank you for applying to Acme, Inc. Since our last employee, Bugs, died of karoshi, we do indeed have an opening for his post. We have received your CV and will get back to you at the earliest possible opportunity.

        Rgds,
        Wile E. Coyote, HR Manager”

    7. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Just had to bite my lip to keep from LOLing for real (while in class, oops) at the first one.

      Also WOW at the third one.

    10. AdAgencyChick*

      These can’t be real. Can they? I guess the depths of chutzpah will never be plumbed.

    11. Travelling Circus*

      Holy crap, these are horrifying! But also hysterical (am I terrible person for saying that?).

      What’s the name of the book? I…really want to read this.

    12. This Daydreamer*

      That last one – am I the only one who’s even more weirded out by the guy saying he caught them red handed?

    14. Plague of frogs*

      The death certificate is such a nice touch. I like a candidate who is thorough.

      The first one is admirable too. I made a letter by cutting words out of newspapers once, and it took forever. If I was ever going to kidnap someone, the annoyance of this process would have made me change my mind. So, I have to admire a guy who wrote that many letters that way. He has a reason to be proud of himself and most certainly should frame the restraining orders that he no doubt received.

    15. Totally Minnie*

      For the last one:

      Dear Applicant,

      Due to this extremely insensitive request at a time when staff are grieving, you have been added to our Do Not Hire List.

      All the best,
      Company

  26. Morning Glory*

    We have a new upper-mid level person on our team who hasn’t been here long but seems amazing. She seems to be really effective at moving projects forward that had previously stagnated, or been tied up in red tape, and treats those of us on the support staff like we are humans, which is really nice. It’s made me wonder about the impact that one individual can have on an existing department culture. Has anyone else ever had a team that was transformed for better or worse by one person?

    1. The Original Flavored K*

      I have definitely seen team and office cultures transformed for the worse by one person. Our previous lead receptionist was toxic — like, intimidating to and unfriendly with patients, with a low opinion of everyone but herself. One of our doctors absolutely hated her, but because she was friends with one of the MA’s, it took her having a blowout about one of the other managers in the hospital system (complete with calling her a “stupid b-broad”) in front of a patient to get rid of her.

      Strangely, despite the friendship she had with the MA, the atmosphere in this office lightened up considerably when she was gone…

      1. The Original Flavored K*

        (Also, no. I have no idea how she made friends with this particular MA. Maybe there was blackmail material, or drugs, or a voodoo doll.)

    2. Lissee*

      Yes! Coworker who joined my team a year and a half ago helped us jump way ahead in how we were doing things since she brought new competency to her role.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      Oh yes, to both. I’ve had a toxic coworker who was on my small team (we were counterparts) but completely affected the happiness of the larger team to which we belonged. She was negative, bad at her job, and lazy. When she left, morale improved almost immediately.

    4. JustaTech*

      Yes! I’ve had someone on my team move up to manager and made a huge difference (nothing like clear instructions to make life easier).
      I’ve also had an outside person added to our team who made a huge difference in the moral/tone of the group because they’re so excited about the new job that it helped remind us why the job was interesting. (And the new person isn’t bitter like we are, so that’s awesome.)

    5. Rovannen*

      Yes!!
      We have a complete change in our building due to our new school principal. We’re on year three and I have to say the roughest day now with the new principal is better than the best day we had before the change.

      Our staff was divided; we had the haves and the have-nots. Some were apathetic in their roles while others poured their blood, sweat and tears. We had a King and we better not forget it. We couldn’t even rally a social committee.

      Wonder Woman came in and through hard work (I don’t think she sleeps), we now have a unified staff with a goal. She did this through her leadership, willingness to get her hands dirty, leading by example, her knowledge and experience, trying new things (and not afraid of being wrong), investing in the staff through professional development, and not participating in ridiculous power games. She’s out with the students, in the classroom, lunch room, halls before school and she is out helping with the end of day parent pick ups. She’s budgeted our monies so we are able to make the necessary upgrades across the board. She formed leadership teams for staff and students; everyone has a responsibility to improve our school. And she’s not done! We are developing systems to constantly review, revise and improve. I could go on for several more paragraphs.

      The resulting change of attitudes in the staff, students, and parents is amazing.

      Can one person make a difference, you bet.

    6. watching the show*

      Oh, yes. This is going on at my job right now. We have a new TL and the whole place has gone to hell in a handbasket. When we are audited this year, the Senior Manager (who doesn’t seem to care), will have to answer for all the things that are against the rules that the TL is doing.

    7. Faintlymacabre*

      oh god. Previously, I had worked in a place where all of the day shift were women, and then a guy was hired. Not only would he talk shit about what should/should not be shaved, but even though he was explicitly hired to do two things, he decided one of those things was gross, and would not do it. He told me on his first day that he would be doing my job soon, then told me a week later that he didn’t want my job because it was too much work. When he bitched about how little money he was making, I told him that maybe he should do both parts of his job. He interpreted that as me saying he should ask for a raise to do the job he was hired to do. That got him (and me!) in trouble with the manager. I left. He died.

  27. What happened to the laundry?*

    I had an interview for a grad position at one of the big-four accounting firms. Being a grad program there was a large number of applicants being interviewed at the same time (group interview, group activities etc. before moving on to individual interviews, all on the same day) this part is quite normal and done by most big firms when hiring their grad intake.

    At the end of the day though, they had everyone line up and get a photo taken. The reason given is that it’ll be to jog the memory of the interviewer about who they were talking to etc. (having seen so many people on the same day).

    I found that practice…odd. I mean they were taking notes all the way through, and they still had the initial applications/resumes to work off, was remembering the way a person looked all that more useful? I was pretty put off by it in any case.

    1. Betsy*

      I’ve been interviewing applicants for our program this week and honestly I think once you’ve interviewed so many they all start to blur together. We completed our scoresheets and wrote notes directly after the interview, so those will be the final scores. But if the recruitment process involved lengthy discussions of the pros and cons of particular candidates after the interviews and group tasks then it would be really helpful to have a picture as a memory aide. In my opinion, they’re just being diligent. I’ve interviewed 22 people this week and if someone asks me a question about a candidate in next week’s meeting when we sign off on the final decisions, I will most likely need to refer to a photo (luckily we have profiles with photos attached) to jog my memory about a particular candidate and make sure I’m not confusing them with one who is very similar.

    2. Ledgerman*

      I work for a Big 4 and they just asked us to send in a recent photo at some points during the recruiting process (for the newsletter mentioning who would be on site or whatever), and on the other side of that, I now know it’s also used to help keep all the candidates straight in post-interview/event discussions. It’s hard otherwise!

  28. AdAgencyChick*

    Things that are underrated in the workplace:
    * Saying please (I feel like “Thanks” gets said a lot, but “please” almost never)
    * Assuming positive intent (assuming honest mistakes before assuming malice or negligence)

    What’s on your list?

    1. Flinty*

      *Reading emails carefully
      *Cutting off redundant comments in meetings so they don’t go on foreeeever

    2. NW Mossy*

      * Giving positive feedback when someone does something well or is particularly helpful – if you catch some doing it right, say so!
      * Regularly coming back to basic expectations and making sure everyone has the same understanding, especially for things that everyone should “just know” – so many problems are caused by expectation confusion and lack of awareness
      * Genuinely listening to different points of view, particularly when you want to disagree – if you pay attention to where it’s coming from, you’ll better understand how to work with it

    4. AliceBG*

      +1 to assuming positive intent!

      My list:
      *Coworkers who are all-business and don’t endlessly monologue at you about their personal lives while you’re trapped covering a service desk

      *Asking for help on a project well in advance of the deadline

      1. Triplestep*

        Hmm, I guess my example below would not be assuming positive intent. Something for me to think about.

    5. Argh!*

      I actually once had a report who wouldn’t do anything that included “please” because she thought it wasn’t a real thing. She was from the South so I was shocked by that. I don’t have it in me to order people around like a drill sargeant, but I had to figure out a way that I could be myself without downplaying the importance of an assignment.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        I’m less annoyed when my boss doesn’t say please (although she usually does, and I usually use it with my direct reports). It’s more when a coworker in another department says “I need this from you” rather than “Can you please do this for me?”

        It’s the whole attitude of “You will do me this favor” instead of “Would you do this favor?” that I hate, especially because it totally assumes that I’ve already agreed to do the thing.

        1. Betsy*

          We get emails that say ‘thank you for volunteering to do X task’ when we haven’t volunteered at all and it’s something (outside our regular duties) we have been told to do. This, for some reason, annoys me much more than just saying ‘thanks for doing this task’.

    6. hbc*

      Related to assuming positive intent, I wish more people knew the limits of what they know, and asked questions rather than drawing conclusions. I can’t even begin to estimate the number of times someone has been all “The llama groomers are all slacking!” because they see a bunch of fluffy llamas wandering about. But maybe someone mixed up the calendar and booked two herds for the same slot, maybe someone in maintenance messed up and there are no sharpened shears, maybe there’s a bout of llama lice going around and the extra precautions are slowing down operations.

      The worst part is, people who react like that tend to register the correction in the moment but the emotional reaction (“Groomers are lazy!!”) is what they remember.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        YES, THIS.

        I’m learning more and more how much of “negligence” or “carelessness” boils down to a failure of the person doing the accusing to communicate what she wanted as clearly as she thinks she did (or at all, sometimes).

    7. Anonymous Ampersand*

      There is one person on my team who is always really clear about what she’s asking of you in meetings and sends an email/action summary afterwards. I’ve actually emailed our team manager and copied her in to say how much I appreciate it. If only everyone did this.

        1. Anonymous Ampersand*

          I know. It’s particularly something I appreciate as my line manager is rather vague sometimes!!

    9. Triplestep*

      *Managers who don’t “send you home” early on a Friday or day before holiday just to make themselves feel good. I’m an adult, and I’m salaried – if I want to go home early, I’ll go home early. I tend not to go home early when I’m in the middle of something, thankyouverymuch.
      *Managers who don’t come tell you that you have permission to work from home the next day when 18 inches of snow is expected and the site is already being shut down. Was already planning to, thanks. See above re: salaried adult.

  29. NJ Anon*

    We have great overall benefits but the best is the 3 for 1 401k match, the bonus program and the employee stock plan. “Producers'” bonuses are based on how much business they bring in. Us administrative types get more merit based bonuses. Something really horrible would have to happen for me to leave.

  30. Manders*

    The discussion earlier this week about the employee who leaves at 5 pm every day got me thinking about my own work habits. I’ve found that if I work much more than 40 hours a week, my productivity starts dropping to the point that I’m not really producing that much more than I would have if I’d stuck with shorter hours. Or I can keep grinding through mindless tasks, but on detail oriented work I start making mistakes left and right.

    Commenters who’ve worked long hours and not seen their productivity take a hit, what’s your secret? Am I a weirdo, or is this a normal part of the way human brains work?

    1. grace*

      I think it’s normal! Once you’re tired or exhausted – whatever your own personal level is – things start to slip. I work long hours on an infrequent basis (we’re project/client based, so when something needs to get done by a deadline, you do it no matter how long you work, but if you don’t have that, leaving at 5pm is fine).

      For me it was the inherent terror of what would happen if I didn’t get things done on time, lol. :-) I also get up and walk around frequently; I’d walk to the local Starbucks or just stand outside for 15 minutes and get some sun and call my SO. Walking away from the computer for short times was so vital to me staying anywhere near productive enough. But nothing helped when it got past 10 at night – at that point, it was just finding a stopping point and resigning myself to coming in early.

    2. NW Mossy*

      In this arena, I think knowing yourself is the most important thing. Personally, I’m a lot more productive when I have fairly rigid hours and don’t work from home after hours. It puts me in a frame of mind where I have to Do The Thing and not procrastinate because I know that if I don’t do it at the office, it’s not going to get done. For me, work is a gas – it expands to fill the time I give it. Adding more hours just means I dink around more and do more low-value stuff that didn’t really need doing anyway.

      Where I think rigid schedules become a problem is when they’re deployed by someone who struggles to plan their time effectively to ensure that the must-dos get done right and on time. Walking out at 5pm when all your criticals are in a good place is really different than walking out when you’re leaving 6 half-baked things behind you that will then either be picked up by others to finish or dropped altogether.

      1. Manders*

        Ah, yes, the thing about work being a gas really resonates with me! I also have a hobby that can expand endlessly, and having predictable and rigid hours works better for me than dedicating my whole day to farting around.

    3. Lumen*

      I love people who say they multitask well, feel rested an refreshed on 6 or fewer hours of sleep a night, and are at their most productive (and HAPPY) when they’re working 40+ hours a week. It fascinates me how they’ve mastered robustly lying to themselves and everyone else to the point that entire industries rely on those lies.

      Personally I think the 40-hours-a-week thing is too readily accepted as a standard, not as a maximum limit. Productivity is not life, and no, humans aren’t built to grind like that. The people who are AT WORK 40+ hours are not necessarily being productive that entire time, and it’s an absurd expectation that they would be.

      Anyway, that’s my advice: ask why it’s necessary for you to work more than 40 hours when your work just gets worse by doing so.

    4. JustaTech*

      I guess I would say that for me, there’s a difference between working more than 40 hours in a week and working more than 8 hours in a day. I’m in biotech, and sometimes experiments just take more than 8 hours and that’s life. But I try hard (and my boss tries hard) to make sure that I don’t have more than one or two of those a week, and not more than two weeks like that a month.
      I’ve had crunch times when everyone was working flat out on big experiments that took hours and hours and hours, but even then we scheduled things to give ourselves “break” weeks (to analyze data and start write-ups).
      I guess the trick is that I can stay productive with long hours if I know that it’s for a limited time frame. I could not possibly do something like lawyer’s hours.

    5. EB*

      Amen to what Lumen said above me.

      I read somewhere that people really get about 3-4 hours of productive work done each day (I’m a designer so for me that means actually working on various designs). That feels about right for me and I feel accomplished if I can achieve that. I’m in too many meetings, handling interruptions from interns to do much more than that in a day. Not to mention your daily office distractions of others having personal conversations, etc. Obviously, I have days where there are tight deadlines and I’m definitely concentrating much harder than that but I can only do that for so long.

      I’m pretty unimpressed by fellow designers that brag about insane hours– it just seems like that’s a great way to kill your creativity by sitting in front of a computer nonstop!

    6. bb-great*

      I feel this way too! But I wonder if you’d adjust if you regularly worked more than 40 hours.

    7. KR*

      After about 8 hours I reach a point where I am Done with work and I cannot focus anymore on billing and ordering, especially since a lot of my work is just waiting for people to get back to me. Though when I worked in customer service and the tasks were easier – just scheduling breaks and tasks and then making sure that stuff happened I could easily go for 11 or 12 hrs a day.

    8. Oxford Coma*

      Breaking up the time. If I need to put in extra hours, often I will pack up and leave at regular time, drive home and veg out for a bit, then log back on later in the evening. Continuing to slog away in the office as it grows darker and darker and everyone else leaves just makes me anxious and depressed.

    9. Thlayli*

      It depends on the job. I think there have been quite a few studies that have found that people can only be pro-active for a limited number of hours each day, so for jobs where you are being pro-active there really is no point in staying late.

      Reactive jobs are different e.g. if you have customers to serve, or a clear set of tasks to complete that don’t require any clever thinking, just plugging away.

      So it kind of depends on the job.

      If I have a close deadline and I know exactly what I need to do to get there, I can work productively for 16 hours in a day. If I don’t have time pressure and I don’t have a set of clear steps to follow, and am in the mode of trying to figure out what to do next, I can only focus for 5-6 hours a day max. On these days I try to find some mindless tasks to fill up the time my brain seems to need to recharge between thinking sessions.

  31. Call Me Al*

    Thoughts on warning someone you don’t know well about a job offer they’re considering?

    A colleague who knows some of the many terrible reasons I left Old Job came to let me know she gave my contact info. to a more distant colleague who is considering an offer there.

    I left because of major ethical, financial, regulatory, and safety concerns (to name a few) and also because of constant leadership churn. That’s the tip of the iceberg, as there are a million small reasons it’s a terrible place.

    I don’t want to badmouth, and it’s been a year and a half since I left, so I’m obviously not current on everything that’s happening, but I do stay in touch with a couple people from there.

    1. neverjaunty*

      “I left for good reasons, and would not recommend working there to anyone.” You don’t have to get into details; if necessary you can say that you are not sure what you’re legally allowed to disclose. That usually gets people’s attention.

    2. Argh!*

      If there’s been leadership churn, the current environment could have improved. What about: “Under the CEO at the time, this thing happened…”

    3. ExcelJedi*

      I wouldn’t talk specifically about any instance where you think they broke the law – the regulatory or safety concerns – because I wouldn’t want to start a rumor mill on that.

      I think @neverjaunty’s response (“I left for good reasons, and would not recommend working there to anyone.”) is perfect, but I might add something like “I didn’t feel good about the way they ran things at the time,” or even “The company culture didn’t align with my professional ethics and expectations.”

      In short, make it about you, not specific accusations about them. But make it clear enough that they can read between the lines.

    4. Call Me Al*

      Okay, I feel good about what I shared.

      I said that I would not recommend working there, but that I understand why she is interested. I suggested she ask to spend some more time there and really try to pick up on the culture before making a decision.

  32. Anonymous Ampersand*

    To my UK peeps!
    I’ve noticed a lot of comments here that imply that getting a phone call to let you know whether you’ve been successful at interview or not is not standard in the US. I’ve always had a phone call after interview if I’ve been successful, and about 65% of the time have received an call if I’ve not been successful (the rest of the time I’ve received an email – I don’t think I’ve ever not been told after interview that I haven’t got the job).
    Is my experience normal in the UK?
    My entire working career has been in the north fwiw and I’ve always worked in universities, civil service, local government, that kind of thing.

    1. Bagpuss*

      I suspect it may depend a bit on the nature of the job.

      We always let people we have interviewed know one way or the other – I think (I wouldn’t normally be the person doing it) that normally it is a phone call to the successful application (followed by written confirmation) and then e-mails to the unsuccessful candidates.

      I don’t think I have ever had an *interview* without hearing back afterwards (although in fairness it is over 10 years since I last had to interview!), although I did have quite a lot of applications with no response, when I was job hunting in a difficult market (think literally 100s of applications for a single opening)

      Anecdotally, I think not hearing back at all after an interview does happen – from friends who have mentioned it to me, retail and call centres seem to be the worst offenders.

    2. Ruth (UK)*

      I have never not heard back after an interview (I have always been told one way or the other), but have frequently not heard back from an application (if it didn’t result in an interview).

    3. Never Nicky*

      After an interview, I’ve ALWAYS heard back – often with a phone call.

      The one time I didn’t, it was with a start up company, who had rented a room by the hour for the interviews, who seemed to want one employee to do everything (sales, marketing, accounts) and wouldn’t say where their office was … bullet dodged!

    4. Sorcha*

      Yeah, that tallies with my experience (Scotland, local government and education, 22years).

    5. Amey*

      That is my experience too – I’ve always been called or emailed to tell me I haven’t got a job that I’ve interviewed for. At my employer (a large university), we always phone everyone interviewed. Personally, I’d prefer an email to a phone call in that situation but this has been the process on the 10 or so panels I’ve been on so I’m assuming is company policy.

  33. Anonsy*

    Going anon for this one just in case. No advice, just so much venting.

    Recently some seating arrangements were changed, and a coworker who I absolutely do not want to see/hear is now within seeing/hearing distance. I spoke with TPTB about getting this changed, and it was modified as much as possible, but it cannot be fully changed for Reasons. So now I just get to feel nauseous every time I hear this person’s voice or laugh and freeze a bit when I see them in the hallway.

    1. NaoNao*

      As someone who just got a Loud Colleague a few desks away for the first time ever, I feel you. I generally like this guy too! But ugh, Loud Colleague *really* needs to take it down a notch!

    2. Totally Minnie*

      Is it just a loud/annoying person, or somebody you have a bad history with?

      Either way, boo. That sucks.

    3. Epsilon Delta*

      I moved from sitting by “Loud Coworker who I Like” to sitting by “Loud Coworker who Grates on my Last Nerve,” so I feel your pain.

  34. Ambpersand*

    Asking for some positive thoughts sent my way…. I’ve applied for two jobs this week that are in my field and close to home (my current commute is about an hour one way)… I wasn’t getting any responses with my old application materials, so I redesigned my resume and cover letter according to Allison’s advice- here’s the hoping I get an interview at the very least!

    1. Ambpersand*

      Also, thanks to everyone on this site because without it I’m sure my resume would still be in shambles. Figuring out how to shape my experience into quantifiable accomplishments was rough!

  35. Snark*

    I’m getting laid off at the end of May. I applied for, and was referred to the hiring manager, for a federal position at a nearby military installation. I was recommended to the hiring managers by three people, all of whom have professional relationships with the folks at the base and/or formerly worked there. I have disability hiring preference. Folks from the base have contacted the people who recommended me, asking if I’d made it through the USAJobs application process. I’ve been told I might get a job offer any day now.

    ….or, my pessimistic, anxious brain reminds me, I might not. The other position I was hoping to apply for and for which I’m eminently qualified, at another base, I’m not eligible to apply for, and I’ve gotten rejections for every other position in the private sectore I’ve applied for lately. So, no pressure, this is the best hand I’ve gotten this whole game, and I’m all in. NO PRESSURE OR ANYTHING AMIRITE

    Either way, now I wait. And check my email every 45 minutes. And oscillate between carefully restrained optimism and confidence and “AGH BUT WHAT IF” pessimism. And resist the strong temptation to knock off work and go hiking and/or day drink.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Ugh, my sympathies. I hope this works out well for you. Even though it doesn’t seem like it, it’s a blessing to have more than a month’s heads-up for the transition. It will give you lots of time to save up money and send out applications. Can you negotiate for any kind of cushion (severance, COBRA insurance) from your current job, to help manage those anxious feelings?

      1. Snark*

        Yeah, having some time to maneuver is great. I’m just getting the strong urge to skip ahead to the last chapter, and I have to continually remind myself that this is not a book.

        1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

          I can totally relate to that sentiment. When I’m nervous, any shred of patience I have goes out the window (which, coincidentally, is when I hop in the kitchen and make all the things). I loathe the “Hurry Up And Wait” game. I have no advice other than to sympathize and hope it works out well for you.

            1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

              After a particularly stressful period, I sent a picture to my best friend of the homemade sanding sugar I’d made. She called me, “Yeah, those colors are great. But, OHMYGOD, what is going on with you? It’s 6 in the morning…..I feel I should be concerned.”

              All things in the kitchen are meditative for me. I get to channel my nervous energy into something creative. And if I’m super stressed out, the preciseness (especially of baking) keeps my brain from running amok.

              1. Exhausted Trope*

                Oh, man, does that bring up memories! In my late 30s, I had all kinds of insomnia and often turned to baking to fill the hours between 12-8 am. My coworkers reaped the reward in many a nut bread those years.
                There’s just so much serenity about the act of baking that I love.

    2. Finally a Fed*

      I feel for you. The USAJobs application process is such a drag and all of the agencies handle the certification accept/reject process different. I still have some applications pending from over a year ago. Best of luck!

    3. dr_silverware*

      Ugh that emotional state is a horrible one to live in. It’s so physically difficult, too! Best of luck, and I hope you’re able to plan for a little while just bombarding yourself with relaxation after this resolves.

      1. Snark*

        I’ve got 52 hours of PTO banked – after what I’ve already requested for my trip to Barcelona next week. Depending on how this all resolves, I might be able to work in some significant time off. I hope.

    4. Lumen*

      Remember that your pessimistic anxious brain is, in this case, correct. And so is your optimistic brain. You might get this job! And you might not. The trick is to not 100% believe EITHER proposition: that’s what is causing the emotional roller-coaster; you’re ‘all in’ emotionally on whatever your brain tells you in the moment, and then to rebalance itself, your brain kicks in with the opposite premise. Back and forth forever.

      Believing/hoping/fearing will not change reality either way. At this point it is out of your hands. So the only thing to do is to take care of YOU, and remember that YOU are separate from how this turns out. Your identity, your Self, is going to persist no matter what happens.

      So do something you like doing. Focus on something that you enjoy, enjoyed before this job opportunity, and will enjoy after this job opportunity (regardless of how it turns out). You and your life are so much bigger than this one thing! Even if right now, you are all in? This isn’t the last hand you’ll ever be dealt. Pinky swears.

      2. Snark*

        Thanks. This is a good reminder. I really should knock off work today and go on a hike – it’d probably really help center me.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Walking (hiking) is very good therapy in times of stress. Walking improves organ function and in turn brain function gets better. The roller coaster doesn’t go so high and so low. Additionally it’s a good reminder that there is a whole world going on out there.

          You read here. You have a huge advantage just with that much. But wait. There are more reasons why you have a huge advantage….[fill in here with reasons].

          Also remind yourself, you do not want just ANY job, you want the right job for you. I think you will land in a good spot here.

          Sending you good vibes.

    5. CG*

      WE BELIEVE IN YOU, SNARK.

      Okay, federal hiring can be terrible. It sounds like they really want you, so that’s promising. But USAJobs can be kind of a memory hole – for sanity, I usually try to just forget about anything that I throw in there, and then if someone calls me 8 months later about a job I applied for, I am pleasantly surprised. I don’t have any practical advice here, but godspeed.

      1. Snark*

        That’s the thing that’s driving me crazy here! I made it through USAJobs less than 48 hours after the position closed! People are asking my references if I got referred! I know I’m closer than just about anybody else who applied.

        1. CG*

          Most of that stuff right after the initial USAJobs application is entirely about algorithms and HR departments, and not usually at all about the folks actually hiring or having to deal with the hire. So sometimes you get all kinds of garbled messages and incoherent stuff that is just about bad HR processes and bureaucracy and not about your actual fitness or likelihood of getting the job. I’ve been a fed for a very long time, and I have had not one but two federal jobs where I got an automated USAJobs email at some point after applying telling me that I did not get the job, which I was then later hired for.

          I’d say for about a month, you may want to just imagine a green HR person on roller skates flailing around an office with a stack of printed out USAJobs resumes that they haven’t handed to anyone with authority to hire yet.

          1. Nita*

            Brain glitch… I just imagined an HR person on skates who is, literally, green. Like Kermit.

      2. CG*

        Also, hiking and day drinking sounds like a good Friday to me. My job is cool, but they still have to pay me to be here.

    6. General Ginger*

      Hiking is probably the better option, as far as the temptations go. But thinking good thoughts for you, Snark!

    7. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      Oh, my dude, you have my sympathy. The uncertainty is brutal. Sending vibes – I hope you get an offer very soon and can start getting hype about the new job.

      If you can request the day off in advance so it doesn’t feel like playing hooky, I would actually suggest totally giving in to temptation! Getting lost in the woods for a little while then grabbing a beer afterwards is one of my favorite things to do when I just can’t deal with [insert situation here]. The exercise and the alcohol are stress-relievers, obviously, but being among nature always calms me down. It’s like a reminder that the world is very big and I am very small, and whatever is stressing me out is impermanent. So I say feel free to enjoy a nice long hike and relax with your drink of choice afterwards.

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        Or just go ahead and play hooky, tbh (I would very much like to just bounce from work today for an early start to the weekend but alas, cannot today). In any case, enjoy some adventuring to get away from it all for a while.

    8. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Hoping you get the job! From what it sounds like, you have a pretty good shot.

    9. Overeducated*

      I got an offer for the only federal job at my level, in my field and area, to be open in the last year. It was also the only one I’ve ever been referred to the hiring manager for. I start Monday. I wish you the same excellent luck – you only need,it once!

  36. Lil Fidget*

    Has anybody had good luck negotiating a long break between jobs? And did paying for benefits on your own during the gap become an issue? I’m really burned out at my current job – I’m close to just quitting but trying to hang in there – and I don’t think I can take a new job unless I get some serious downtime between. I’m afraid I’d start the new job with a bad attitude if I don’t take at least two weeks, preferably a month of downtime. Of course all the jobs I talk to want to drag their own feet with hiring (“we’ll decide by the end of next month”), but then expect the person to start right away.

    1. neverjaunty*

      If they make an offer, just present your new start date as a matter of fact; “I would be available to start [four weeks from now].” If they push, explain that you’re also looking forward to starting with them and that’s the date you know you will be available.

      It’s not really their business whether you are giving 4 weeks’ notice at OldJob vs taking two weeks for yourself.

      1. RestlessRenegade*

        This.
        When I got hired at my current job, I interviewed in June. I told them I couldn’t start until August 15. I stayed on at my old job until July 31st and then took a 10-day motorcycle trip across four states and back, which was amazing. My new job had no idea! Having said that, my manager REALLY wanted to hire me, so it might be easier to pull this off if you are in high demand.

    2. A Person*

      I’d love to have success at this as well. The old “I just need to give notice to my current job and can start in two weeks” me had much more success with job offers than the “I can start 3-4 weeks after I receive a written offer” me.

      But I have concluded that an organization that sits on my application for 2-3 months before calling me for an interview and then expects me to be able to start within two weeks is either too disorganized or too inflexible to be a good work environment for me.

      I recommend you check your insurance coverage with your current employer – I was pleasantly surprised to find at mine that health benefits are paid a month in advance, so I am covered up until the end of the month after the month I leave.

    3. Natalie*

      Take a long break if you need it! I took two weeks between my last job and current job and it was fantastic. Given that current job had absolutely no plan to train me until January, I wish I had taken longer.

      For benefits, a lot of places don’t boot you off their insurance until the end of the month after your last day. If you don’t have ongoing medical expenses like chemo or physical therapy or something, you can also wait to sign up for COBRA until you actually need it – you have 60 days to opt for coverage, and once you do it’s retroactive back to the last day of your employer provided coverage. So you can wait and see if your medical expenses are high enough to actually need COBRA.

      1. Syren*

        Read the fine print on this. I had a 30 day lapse in coverage between old job and new job. The new company sent me a notice that I had 15 days to sign up for COBRA. So maybe it depends on your employer? State?

  37. Decima Dewey*

    I have an update on my Fergus/Fergusina situation. Or rather a lack of one.

    My boss wants to have a meeting with all parties to hear both sides and resolve the situation. On Every. Day. we could have had the meeting, Fergusina called out. Yesterday she called to ask if the meeting could happen today. I said it couldn’t, since Fergus would not be there. That’s when Fergusina said she would be in today. Both boss and I agree that Fergusina seems to be trying to avoid Fergus and/or the meeting. But the meeting will happen anyway. Fergusina is unaware of how big a hole she’s dug for herself. After Fergus leaves the meeting, boss and I will have to talk to Fergusina about the wording in her last email (Fergus and Fergusina have been told not to email me or each other about the situation). We have to make sure that Fergusina understands that, important as her religious beliefs are to her, she does not know the religious beliefs (or lack of same) of everyone she works with, or of every patron who comes in. She’s signed emails as “Minister Fergusina Lastname”, and has made remarks about having no animosity toward anyone, except people whose lifestyle she disapproves of.

    1. Anony*

      How can she keep calling out without jeopardizing her job? It seems like it would be better to first have a meeting with her separately to put her on a PIP that includes showing up to the meeting with Fergus.

      1. Decima Dewey*

        She’s on FMLA for a medical condition. The system has to allow her to work at a branch close to her. The only other branch in the zip code where she lives is a busy branch that sent her to us. At this point, it’s either my branch or Central.

        1. WellRed*

          FMLA does not mean she can ignore things she’s asked to do. It also doesn’t mean she can’t be fired.

    3. JustaTech*

      Good grief, I had to snort-laugh at this! ” having no animosity toward anyone, except people whose lifestyle she disapproves of” is just so far out there!
      Good luck dealing with her!

    4. Temperance*

      Wow. So she’s using FMLA as a cover to try and weasel out of this meeting?

      I might lie to her next time she calls to ask if Fergus is there and say no when he actually is, just to call her out on the carpet. She needs to stop being a discriminatory a-hole, and she needs to stop calling herself a minister at her presumably non-religious job.

      1. Anony*

        I wouldn’t even lie. I would just tell her that I will not discuss Fergus’ schedule with her.

  38. Merida Ann*

    The question yesterday about styles for curly hair had me thinking about the opposite – straight-hair styles for work. Braids specifically, but I’m up to discussing other options as well. I am white with fairly long, stick-straight hair that doesn’t really style well, so usually at work I just have it in a ponytail or half-pony, and occasionally just down if it’s not being too static-y that day, but I’m pretty bored with just these options.

    When I’m not at work, I often like putting my hair in two simple braids to keep my hair out of my face, but I know that reads as too “little kid” to wear to the office. What about other styles of braids, though? I feel like a single French braid (if I knew how to do that) would be professional enough, but what about doing a ponytail and then just braiding the tail part? Or what about two thin braids from the sides tied together at the back of my head? I guess I’m just trying to assess where the line is between professional braids and unprofessional braids.

    And if you have any other options for stubbornly straight hair other than just ponytails, I’d love to hear those, too.

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Before I cut my hair short for the umpteenth time, French braids were my go-to. I think braiding a ponytail might come off a little too casual, but there are certainly people who could probably work it.

      But really, French braids are (imo) really the safest style. It’s hard to find anything to object to with them.

    2. lnelson1218*

      I too have longish (shoulder length) straight hair. Previously it was longer.
      Mainly I wear it up in either a pony tail or in some of the hair clips from Goody.
      Personally I think that the clips look move professional.
      When my hair was longer, I could put it up in a bun and with a little hair spray it stayed out of my face.

    3. CTT*

      Right now my standard for braids is “If I would see it on an Instagram post from Coachella, it’s probably not ok for work.” But I think a French braid would be totally appropriate! I just learned how to do it, and it took a few months of a lot of practice; I read somewhere that you should just do it over and over while watching TV or some other idle activity because that way your hands get used to the movements. As for the others, I think it depends on what you see at your work.

    4. Jax*

      I also have long, straight hair and wear a braid every day. Usually I pin my bangs back and have the braid come over one should or another. It’s like a pony tail braid, but the pony is only at the end of the braid, not at the base of my head AND the end of the braid. I work in a university, so it works here, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work in conservative workplaces, either.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I’m actually a curly-haired person, but I’ve done a ponytail with a braid in the front (crown) on one side. Sort of like, part the hair in the middle, braid one side starting at the hairline, bring both sides back in a ponytail. I like this look on me (it only works when my hair is sopping wet) and my straight-haired friends.

    6. Middle School Teacher*

      I have a ton of long straight hair. One of my go-to hairstyles is I do a mini Dutch braid down the right side, behind my ear, tie it, gather all hair into a low pony at the nape of my neck towards the right, and then twist it all into a bun. I saw it on Pinterest, I’ll see if I can find a link.

    7. The New Wanderer*

      Low bun, inverted pony tail (where you put in an elastic, then part your hair just above the elastic and pull the pony through), and French twist are what I used to do the most when my hair was long enough. Also a partial French braid into a low pony tail. I wouldn’t braid just the tail part, as noted above it’s a very casual look (and to me would read young).

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        Can vouch for these styles for work-appropriate and chic options, and if your hair has trouble “gripping” in a low bun or French twist, I suggest spin pins instead of bobby pins. They work miracles.

        When I had long hair I also used to do a sort of half inverted ponytail, where I wouldn’t part the hair all the way through, just enough that I could tuck the ponytail inside of it to form a roll, then pin it in place. My hair is super thick and this is one of the only updos that would hold all day without me having to fuss over it, and I’d get compliments on it all the time, even though it took less than 2 minutes to do. I cut all my hair off a few months ago but this was my go-to.

    8. Overeducated Higher Ed Admin*

      My hair goes to the bottom of my shoulder blades. Aside from pony tails and messy buns, I do two styles of French braids (inverted and regular), pull back my bangs with a small clip, put in three braids in the top of my head to the crown and then wear a messy bun, I occasionally do a ballerina bun. I’ve practiced fishtails and different kinds of braids while watching TV, but none have gotten to the point of being work-ready. My rule is that the style needs to take less than ~5 minutes in the morning.

    9. HannahS*

      When I had long hair, I defaulted to braids. French braid or side braid (literally pull the hair over to below your ear and braid it down) most days, although once my hair was waist-length I did a lot of crown braids. Also, buns held with spiral-shaped pins hold really well, but they can be a bit heavy if your hair is really long. I think braiding the tail of a ponytail is fine, though it reads as a bit more athletic/casual than a French braid. The two thin braids sounds fine, and you could also do half-up/half down, which is a weird name for putting the top half of your hair in a pony tail. I also would do that half up/down thing and braid the upper part, which worked for me because I found that the upper/outer layer of hair was frizzier than the lower, so containing it worked nicely.

    10. Former Border's Refugee*

      I have waist length, straight hair, and I usuaually use a clip or two to hold it up. Braiding the ponytail and then pinning it into a bun is a good option. you could also do the two braids, and pin them up low on the back your head (so it’s like the “milk maid” style but pushed way way back). French braids can also be pinned up, and the great thing about all of these is that they don’t take too long in the morning to do.

      I taught myself how to dutch braid during my last semester in law school, and it was one of my biggest achievements. I regret nothing.

    11. CopperPenny*

      My default work style when my hair isn’t down is a rope briad updo.

      I part my hair in the middle and clip half of it up. I take the other side and get two sections at the front. I then twist them around each other. Like a braid only with two strands adding hair each time same as a French braid. Once I reach the base of my neck I continue to the end of the hair. Fasten the braid then clip it up to maintain the shape while I do the same on the other side.

      Once I have both sides twisted I pin them on the back of my hair, often in a bun but not always.

      I also sometimes braid the front of my hair in a headband braid, basically French braiding bangs across the front of my head. It keeps the hair out of my face.

    13. Mephyle*

      Check out the braided styles of ‘Milabu’ on Youtube; if those work for your hair, some of her braided hairdos might be what you’re looking for. She shows many, many different braided styles.

      1. Mephyle*

        She calls it ‘short’ hair, but it’s really brushing-the-shoulders length, and a good many of her styles can work for longer hair, too.

    14. Tuna Casserole*

      I have long stick straight thin hair. I often twist it into a bun and use a spin pin to secure it. Regular bobby pins just fall out of my hair, but spin pins stay put.

    15. Betsy*

      I would read one French braid as professional, but two braids, like some people are suggesting, will always read as too elementary school to me.

    16. Talvi*

      A fishtail braid is a nice option option (they can take awhile to do, but I’ve always found french braids take me longer so ymmv). I also often wear my hair partially pulled back with a clip.

      Also, you mentioned static as a deterrent to wearing it down — you may want to try a “dry” oil like argan oil to help counteract the static, if you’re looking to wear it down more often.

    17. Garland not Andrews*

      If you want to learn how to French or Dutch braid your hair, there are loads of tutorial video’s on UTube. Search for one on how to braid your own hair. Until December I had hip length wavy hair. I wore it French or Dutch braided most of the time. The fun thing is that the variations are endless. It just takes practice to learn.

    18. Mm Hmm*

      I think simple (single) braids look really nice. My hair is very straight & slippery. To put it up, what has worked best for me is to braid it *overhand* to create a space beneath it. Put a hair band on it. Then fold it up (end goes in first) into the space you’ve created. Pin that down from above and across, going thru each layer (hair on scalp, each layer of braid). You can use chopsticks, hair sticks, or what the Vt Country Store used to call “rubbers” – u-shape with wavy arms maybe half an inch wide by 3 or 4 inches long. It’s simple, fast, neat & always gets compliments.
      Note that it can be pretty thick, which means I can’t tuck it up before driving or I’m looking down instead of out, so I put it up in the car before exiting. You can accommodate longer hair by starting the braid on the crown rather than the back of the head, but I use this as a gauge for when to trim my hair.

    19. Thlayli*

      There are actually loads of Pinterest ideas about braiding your hair. I never knew how to do a French braid either and I learned off a Pinterest link. It sounds actually really easy after a bit of practice!

      I definitely think French braid looks more professional than a pony braid or two pigtail braids. You can also learn how to do a French type braid along the side of your face which also looks pretty cool.

      I have really straight ridiculously thin flyaway hair and a pony twisted into a bun often looks good – but I do have a big tendency for flyaway hairs though, so it needs to be redone 10 time and a day – only takes 30 seconds though.

    20. Totally Minnie*

      I like a Katniss style braid (Dutch braid across the back of my head that turns into a side braid). If you want to class it up a little, you could twist the resulting side braid into a bun.

    21. Jingle*

      I have hip length, wavy hair, and at this length, always wear it up to work, usually in some form of braided bun (even a ponytail leads to tangles/breakage once you get to a certain length). My most common way of wearing it is to do a side part, then French lace braid each side down to my ear, and continue English braiding each to the end. I then join the two braids at the back of my head together with the rest of my hair and bun, or braid it all together first then bun, securing with a hair stick, flexi8 or ficcare. My favourite buns are the lazy wrap bun and the nautilus bun, but I also use others, depending on my mood (see YouTube for how to). It takes about 10 minutes all up (including the time to take down my sleeping braids). If you’re interested in learning more styles, search for “long hair community” – lots of styles for all hair lengths.
      Also want to add – my view is that as long as it’s off your face, tidy and not somehow distracting you from your work, then it is professional. I do occasionally wear a single or twin French or Dutch braids like you describe, although I’d bun the tails so I don’t catch on my chair back. But even with them loose, I don’t see there as being anything inherently unprofessional about this look. (I also love the crown braid and think it’s a great, polished look, but I’m at the point where I have too much hair for it.)

  39. anon for this one*

    Soooooo the exec level management in my big, corporate company decided to spend thousands on a “motivational and communication” training that we had yesterday.

    They brought in a man whose entire speech consisted of telling everyone that there’s no such thing as an obstacle or limitation, and that the only limitation in your career is lack of belief in yourself. That if you really want something and pursue it, it will come to you. It was very eye roll inducing. A bunch of us googled the speaker beforehand and he charges $50,000 for each motivational corporate speech (my company has him doing one for each department, so he’s making at least 500K from us alone, unless they worked out a deal).

    At one point he asked what limitation everyone in the room faced that prevented them from achieving success and how we could work through those issues. It devolved into a mess. My first coworker to speak up said systematic racism prevented him from getting good opportunities, and then another coworker said she had struggles because she came from a low socioeconomic background and she didn’t have access to the same opportunities. And it pretty much went from there with people talking about sexism or homophobia or being denied opportunities because they did/didn’t have children, etc.

    I have never seen a motivational speaker pale so quickly and grow so uncomfortable in front of a room. To be fair to my colleagues, we all have very low morale right now because of other company issues, but work deciding it’s a great idea to have a rich white man come into a very diverse room of people and tell us that the only thing holding us back was “our own selves” was so tone deaf. It was only bound to end poorly. I’m kind of amazed they even thought it was a good idea in the process, and while I know my colleagues and I will probably get in trouble, I can’t find it in myself to care all that much.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Haha being infuriated at what we pay worthless consultants is a recreational hobby of mine. I always think that these people get close to my annual salary – every single day of my loving attention, for 365 days straight – for some stupid report that probably took them 10 hours of work total, or a ridiculous presentation that took a few hours. My sympathies.

    5. bluelyon*

      I love that your colleagues brought up things that actually matter instead of going along with his nonsense!
      That’s really hard to do sometimes and he deserved to be made uncomfortable because he’s absurd

      1. anon for this one*

        I was thinking similar things during the whole presentation, so when my first colleague responded, I was glad that someone else got the ball rolling. I chose to keep my mouth shut at first because I’ve gotten in trouble for speaking about these things before (I’m queer and it’s definitely had an impact at work, even in such a liberal environment, and I’ve gotten talked to by management for complaining about micoaggressions from coworkers).

        It was honestly a way more productive conversation than anything the speaker had to say. I’m so glad it happened.

        1. Lumen*

          Super glad that when people started speaking up he didn’t end up arguing with them that systemic racism/misogyny/homophobia/other biases just magically don’t exist and they’re just playing some ‘card’.

          Because I’ve heard THAT garbage all my life. It’s all imaginary! I really DO have control over how other people treat me if I just BELIEVE in myself enough!!!

          *rolls eyes to the heavens*

          1. Elizabeth West*

            Same for being learning-disabled. “You just don’t like math!” Gee thanks for telling me my own experience; I surely wouldn’t have figured that out for myself! :P

            1. Totally Minnie*

              Ugh. My sister has dyscalculia and I’ve always hated how people with no LD experience talked to her.

              “If you could just pretend your brain works differently from how it actually does, you’d be getting straight A’s!”

          2. anon for this one*

            I think he was too taken aback to even know how to respond.

            But I’ve gotten the female/queer card so many times. Though for the latter it’s less “believe in yourself” and more “just closet your sexuality and people won’t treat you differently!”. Uh, no.

    6. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Oh, that sounds like it was a slow-motion train wreck. Good for your colleagues for speaking up about the realities of their situations. I hope the speaker walked away with some things to think about.

    8. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Wow – does your company also do employee surveys? Good for them for speaking up!

      All I could think of while reading this was if the speaker also lived in a van down by the river.

    9. The New Wanderer*

      “No, no, I mean a limitation like ‘I don’t know if I can learn this new skill’ or ‘I don’t always believe I’m good enough’.”

      Honestly, what did he expect people to say to that? Has he read a newspaper lately?

      Reminds me of the Sex & The City episode when Charlotte and Carrie go to some relationship motivational speaker (“You have to believe in love to receive love”), and the speaker basically tells Charlotte her problem is that she doesn’t believe enough.

      1. Jesca*

        I think about that episode so much, but I thought it was Miranda who went and then she flipped her shit on the guy? Anyway, yeah no. I mean we all can be beating on ourselves and it is good to stop that behavior, but if someone came into my work and told me that I was being prevented from moving up in my current role at a company that has ONE FEMALE MANAGER in a building of a 100 or so managers because of my own undiscovered self-sabotaging internal dialogue, I would likely punch them in the face.

        But this post made my day!

      2. zora*

        “what did he expect people to say to that?”
        I had this thought, too, and then I realized, most corporate speaking events like this, I’m sure 99% of people feel like they have to be ‘professional’ because their work is paying for this, and they are internally eyerolling but playing along. This might be the first time he’s encountered a workplace where the employees had nothing to lose so they told the truth. This is part of that bubble of whitemale privilege, right? That he can go around and say these things and those who are whitemales are like “Yes, I agree!” and everyone else just keeps their mouth shut, so they believe that means they are actually right!!

        I love this story of him getting his comeuppance, though, I wonder if it’s going to change anything for him??

      3. Marthooh*

        It reminded me of the letter from the admin whose boss wanted to do some woo-woo “purpose-driven work” training for underpaid staff, to keep them from leaving. I hope we get an update from that LW.

        (Link follows.)

    11. Crylo Ren*

      O M G

      Your coworkers Shut. It. Down. Good for all of you! I hope y’all don’t face any retaliation.

    12. Middle School Teacher*

      Were the people who paid to bring this guy in there, too? And more importantly: were they listening???

  40. EUtrainee*

    I have been thinking a lot recently about the locking eternity collar submission from last year. I started working at a EU institution two months ago and one of my colleagues wears a very evident one (more of a steel chain than a collar). He always wears it, even in his profile photo on the directory. He’s such a nice, outgoing person what I’m amazed no one has asked him about it (at least that I know). Since no one makes a fuss about it, I actually wonder if I am the only one who knows what it is!

    1. dr_silverware*

      Maybe, or it’s possible that the folks who recognize it without AAM are following the tacit “we both recognize what this is” agreement to just treat it like a necklace.

    2. Thlayli*

      I would not have known what one was without seeing that letter. I would have just thought it was an ugly necklace. I’m guessing a lot of people don’t know what it is.

    3. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

      Honestly, even though I know a little bit about kinky relationships, I would never have known what such a collar was until that letter. I’d just figure this guy likes his steel chain and not think anything more of it.

  41. SallyF*

    If you generally keep a running To Do list at your desk and came in the next morning to find a coworker had added some notes to it (not “To Do” items, just some related info), would you feel:
    1. Grateful – How nice of her to read through it and scribble some thoughts!
    2. Ragey and violated

    I went for #2.

    1. DayVee*

      I’d be pretty angry. My to-do lists belong to me. If somebody wants ME to add something to it they can talk to me or email me or whatever but what you are describing would feel like a violation of my personal space.

    2. that's a no no*

      M A D
      I don’t even want anyone to read my to-do. It’s for me, not YOU!

      On another note, workers were rearranging cubicle walls in my office and brushed up against/ERASED my white board to-do lists!! I usually jot things down that I know I’ll forget if not, so, guess what – I can’t remember a single thing that was on it! Welp, guess that means I don’t have to do anything today?? ;)

    3. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      Ragey. Definitely.

      I’d then be tempted to leave a to do list with suspicious things:
      1) Buy plastic gloves
      2) Buy plastic sheeting
      3) Make sure axe is sharpened
      4) Buy shovel
      5) Buy stain remover

    6. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I would also go for #2. To-do lists are a form of catharsis for me. They help me organize my thoughts and my work, and prepare me for the day ahead. I can be very particular about them, depending on my mood and stress level, to the point where I will throw out and restart the list if I make a spelling error or even if I don’t like my handwriting. If someone were to add items or notes to my to-do list without my express permission, I would be livid and it would undo all the catharsis that I created the list for in the first place!

    7. Pollygrammer*

      I would go for ragey and violated too. I might try a slightly chilly “is there a reason you did that?” (Assuming you know who it was).

    8. Q*

      Definitely the second one. Don’t touch my personal stuff. Is s/he needed you to do something then follow the proper request channels. Its also creepy that this person was all up in your business.

    10. Damn it, Hardison!*

      +1 for overstepping. No one adds things to my to-do list. Just no. And if one of the things that’s added to my list is “Smile!” I will do just the opposite (this calls for ragey response).

    11. NW Mossy*

      This is only barely OK if the additions are humorous and kind, like “Get coffee with me!” or “Knock off early, you’ve earned it!” If they are actual work items that this coworker is attempting to assign to you and expecting you to complete, um, 10000 gallons of no on that.

    12. Yolo*

      I would talk to the person and say something about how you would appreciate it if they would respect your personal space. But also it might be useful to have sticky notes readily available on your desk in case someone does stop by with information while you’re not around–that way if they’re flailing around for a useful place to deposit the info (and are not willing to email for some reason?) there is a better option at hand than your personal to-do list. And if they again violate your personal items/space, you could confidently escalate the complaint about disrespectful coworkers.

    13. Coalea*

      #2 all the way. If they had jotted something down on a separate paper – “Hey, saw your list and thought the below might be useful” type of thing – I would *probably* be okay with it, although not thrilled that they had read my list. Actually writing ON my list? Unacceptable.

    14. WonderingHowIGotHere*

      Definitely 2!
      This happens to me, except its not coworker it’s boss, so as much as I’d like to get stabby, that has slightly worse consequences. It also doesn’t help that she has ‘spider on cocaine dancing in ink’ handwriting, so part of the To Do list is translating whatever random crap she’s tacked on the bottom.

    15. Nanc*

      New item for your list (in a totally non-invasive way!):

      ID and plan revenge upon mystery person who violated the sanctity of my to do list by adding notes to it.

      I get feeling annoyed, but if it’s out on your desk someone is bound to see it and unless they’re trying to screw you over, probably thought they were being helpful.

      Full disclosure: if I were to do this, I would probably use a post-it note or send and email with my additions!

    16. Florida*

      If someone took a new post-it note( not my ongoing list), wrote something for me and put it on my monitor or desk, I would not mind. But yeah, don’t add your notes to my notes.

    17. SophieChotek*

      #2.

      I get annoyed with family members sort of poke through my mail or look at my calendar when they are over, let alone a co-worker.

      (To be fair, my calendar is out in the open at home…guess I should stash that if I know people are coming over…)

    20. CheeryO*

      A coworker did this to me once, and it wasn’t that weird in the context of my (admittedly somewhat weird) office. He crossed something out and wrote a note about how he took it off my plate, which would have been delivered in a joke-y tone if it was done in person (he is senior to me but doesn’t supervise me, and he helps me out with stuff occasionally in exchange for grunt work), so I just shrugged and went about my day. It was a good reminder that there will always be nosy folks poking around stuff on your desk while you’re gone.

    21. Ashley*

      That kills my OCD because the handwriting wouldn’t match. I do think it is worth addressing with the offender, and if you are going to be away from your desk for awhile maybe try hiding your to do list.

    22. This Daydreamer*

      How delightful that your colleague took the time to read your personal notes change your priorities for the day! Especially sweet of them to add to your workload.

  42. Nancy*

    I’m a teacher. It’s my first year at this school district. When is the best time to disclose that I am pregnant? I am due in september. My observations so far have been positive, but my supervisor and I don’t always get along. I am planning to ask for a leave of absence (unpaid). Thanks in advance!
    Oh, and I’m 13 weeks and not showing yet.

    1. Middle School Teacher*

      I’d say, when is the time you need to give notice about your intentions? Since you’re due in September I’m guessing you’re going to work until the end of the school year. In our district we need to inform of our intentions (eg. I’m going to take a year off to finish my masters’, I want to move from full time to part time) by May 31. So if that’s true for you, I’d say by then at the latest.

    2. Not That Jane*

      My approach was to tell my principal very early, to give them time to find a long-term sub. I had been at that same school for 3 years at that point, BUT I also knew that given the culture of our school, taking a long maternity leave was pretty uncommon / likely to be seen as an inconvenience. I was also due in April, so a bit different of a time frame (I had time to get my students well launched on the year, then someone else basically finished the year with them.)

    3. A Teacher*

      Do you have a union? I would start with the insurance person in the union and go from there. In our district, we are expected to notify as soon as we start to use maternity benefits if we want our insurance to cover all things–there’s more paperwork to sign to add child etc…

      I adopted but I notified the district office, didn’t go to my AP (direct supervisor) about it at all. Insurance person at the district office is who I talked to.

      1. Julianne*

        Agreed; find out what you are contractually required to do, and do that at minimum.

        At my school, I feel like the culture is basically “announce it by the time your body announces it for you.” For one of my coworkers, this resulted in an earlier-than-planned announcement after she threw up in the middle of morning meeting one day…

  43. DayVee*

    Is it normal to not be able to get clarity on where your role can go internally?

    I am a teapot strategist. I report to a manager of teapot strategy. Right now there’s nowhere up for me to go unless my manager leaves. I’ve been told many times that I’m a top performer and I’ve received raises and bonuses to reflect that. Now I am at the maximum that someone in my role can receive without going into management or another department.

    We’re in goal setting season and so I’ve been trying to use that as an opportunity to discuss with my manager where my role might be headed and what opportunities there are for growth. I don’t expect an immediate promotion or anything like that. I’m in no rush to have to start approving expense reports or time off requests. But it is very important to me to see professional growth. Right now things feel pretty stagnant.

    How can I get some direction from my manager? Right now I feel as though I will have to leave the organization if I want to see any career development. I’m sure they’d love to keep me, but I don’t want to be doing the exact same work this time next year.

    (As an aside: last year we experienced significant lay-offs and I know my team was on the bubble. There’s a non-zero chance that there are more lay-offs in the future and I don’t want to stick around only for my team to get cut.)

    1. DayVee*

      OH, and on another note: is it a terrible idea in the context of this kind of conversation to point out that you are being recruited (if it is true)? Is there a productive way to frame that, e.g. “I’ve been approached by someone who is interested in hiring me and I’ve never acted on it because I am committed to this organization, but I do want to see some sign that there will be an opportunity for me to grow here”?

    2. AnotherAlison*

      For your specific role, I think it’s possibly a yes to that question.

      I worked in a strategy group for [too many] years, and was in a similar situation as you regarding advancement. My experience was that I was working with senior/executive management, but not a lot of operations people. My direct management didn’t know anything about what type of operations role might be suitable to get me into a different lateral position then to move up in the future. I ultimately sought out my own transfer. I was ready to make a move, and a particular operations group manager was giving an informative presentation to our team about what his group does so that we could support him. He mentioned they were adding positions, so I talked to him and my then-manager and it all worked out. I had the right background in my pre-strategy role for a different position, but YMMV.

    3. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Yeah – welcome to strategy. Its fun but… a weird sort of career cul-de-sac. Either you get plucked from a group to run some smaller department/product/whatever by a benevolent senior manager, or you wither on the vine and have to seek your own way. I’m on my fourth strategy department, and every one of them has had the same problem with trying to find a path out of strategy. You learn a lot of excellent soft skills, but it most certainly does not have the same promotion and straight path as a lot of other fields. Also even if you get higher up you are still doing roughly the same work – I have bumped into my boss’ boundaries at multiple jobs because they are either working down or I am working up.

      What are your long term goals for yourself? Do you want to lead a department? Maybe move into more project management? Are there any projects you really enjoyed over the year and would like to know more about that department and opportunities and about making a move? Have you asked your manager about paths other people have taken from the department? This is definitely one career where you need to have vision and self-advocate, but it helps to know where you are going. If you know that and can work backwards from where you are, that could give your boss some guidance to help you set goals, or you could help prompt him with the other question.

      1. DayVee*

        My long-term goals are up in the air. I like the idea of leadership and I think I’m well-suited for leading a team or a project. However, I don’t know how much I’d like some of the other work that comes with it. I like to be involved with creative stuff. I’ve been actively recruited by a couple of places. The one sounds pretty sweet–it would be consulting, with someone I’ve done freelance work for, but would require a two-hour-each-way commute once a week. The other one is another strategist job but in a smaller organization that has less red tape and is actually building a product department, so there would be a chance to go up to either a product manager role or to lead a team of strategists.

        Project management would be hellish for me, I think. I’ve looked into product owner training, though. I do really like doing strategy work, but my goal would be to do the higher level strategy work. Instead of doing one basket, I’d like to figure out the overall direction for all of our baskets. Marketing strategy’s also interesting to me. And content strategy, but that would be a lateral move.

        In terms of paths others have taken, my manager’s one of the original members, are two others on our team of five. The others who have left have all left the company (voluntarily). But the team has only existed for a year or two.

  44. AmITooPicky?*

    Who drives a supervision meeting document? I’m having issues with one of my direct reports – let’s call her Phoebe. Each week her meeting agenda/priority summary gets worse. They have two colors of highlighting and list every little thing, including items that are on the back burner, some that are 6 plus months old. It has the effect of highlighting what Phoebe hasn’t done rather than what she has done.

    I don’t want to give her extra work to create a second document, but I think wading through this document wastes both our times. And it just gets on my nerves. Is it reasonable to request a clearer agenda? Also I know this shouldn’t be a factor but I hesitate to upset her as she is going through fertility treatment and is more emotional than usual. She does get her work done, but I think she could definitely be more efficient, and this seems to be part of the problem.

    I do have two other direct reports- Rachel and Monica- and their agendas are always fine. Any suggestions? Thanks!

    1. Flinty*

      My favorite supervisor used a template from The Management Center, which I then filled out each week. I think it’s totally fair to work together to create a system that works for both of you, as long as you don’t completely override what she needs from the document!

      1. Earthwalker*

        That sounds like a great idea! or if it’s not a fit, can you provide Phoebe with an example of how her status report should look?

    2. Bea W*

      How is this agenda being kept? I had a manager who had everyone do this in Excel. We always had more work than people or time to do it. I preferred to keep all the back-burnered items on it as a reminder they hadn’t gone away. My manager would have forgotten about them otherwise. I also didn’t want to forget about them. My solution was to add a status column which made it easy to filter out all the back-burnered stuff.

    3. CTT*

      Possibly a silly question: does she know that the document is supposed to show work that she’s already done and not what’s outstanding? I’m not entirely sure what a supervision meeting document is, but the only experience I’ve had meeting regularly with a supervisor involved a document that listed what was outstanding on each project with a status report. Is it possible that she thinks that’s the purpose of the document?

      1. AmITooPicky?*

        Not a silly question at all, CTT. I ask all 3 direct reports to bring some sort of list of what they are working on. Monica and Rachel write “Pink Teapot project’ and a brief update on the due date and what they are doing this month on the project. Sometimes this includes what has been accomplished in the past week. In contrast Phoebe adds things like “check out availability of jewels for teapot ornamentation by calling llamaville llc. ” and then it stays there for three months because it isn’t a top priority. Or things like “email Fergus about wording for teapot plaque. ” And that’s a level of detail I don’t think I need, but she enjoys tracking. So maybe we do try to start from scratch.

    4. LDP*

      At my last job we started using Trello boards for things like this. It was great because we all had a private board of our own that we could organize however we wanted, then there was a team board that kind of highlighted the high level to-do’s or projects that were being worked on by more than one person, and then we each had one that we shared with our manager. I liked it because it was super easy to copy and paste from my private list into the others, and it was really satisfying to move the cards into the “done” section. I know my manager liked it because he could add comments on assignments if he got more information from higher ups that would be helpful, too.

  45. Washi*

    Ok, so I hear a lot about applicant tracking systems that reject applicants automatically based on certain criteria. Does anyone here actually use such a system, that weeds people out without a human ever setting eyes on their application? I’ve never actually met someone whose employer’s system was used like that, and I’m starting to wonder if it’s mostly an urban legend type thing.

    2. Junior Dev*

      I’ve been automatically rejected from a university job because it asked yes-or-no questions with checkboxes and I answered that I didn’t have some required experience, so it wouldn’t let me continue applying.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes I have too. I got rejected within 10 minutes of applying. It was also for some qualification that was listed as “optional” on the job description but when I didn’t check that box, I was automatically rejected.

        1. JustaTech*

          Yup, I’ve had that too. And then I had someone tell me I should just check “yes” even though it wasn’t true (and was easily check-able). That person got a stern talking-to about how one does not lie on applications to the government, thankyouverymuch.
          But since that happened I’ve stopped even looking at those jobs.

    3. Anonymous Poster*

      I’ve seen this for people that didn’t meet education or experience requirements.

      It was generally over applied, but for federal contracting sometimes you have to meet certain requirements for the applicant to be eligible. It was harsh, but them’s the rules of the contract.

      1. Anonymous Poster*

        Oh, also I’ve seen automatic rejections if someone doesn’t have an appropriate security clearance already. That’s because companies either aren’t willing to wait or pay to send someone through the clearance process.

        For reference, it can cost roughly 10-20k for the process, plus carrying the individual as overhead (They generally must be employed for your organization; you usually cannot ‘start’ the process while someone is working elsewhere and give them a clearance. There has to be a need for them to have it), and a 6 month – 1 year wait. It’s a big expense that it’s understandable companies are trying to avoid if possible.

    4. HiHiHi*

      Although my job doesn’t, I know that at least one of the universities in my state does-they have a list of 10-15 required qualifications, and you need to check off if you meet all of them when you send in your resume and cover letter. They needed to confirm that their process was not inaccessible to people with disabilities when they changed over, and had sent it over to us to look at…we basically said no, it’s not inaccessible, but it’s a pretty terrible idea. They remain convinced that they are going to receive thousands of applicants for positions they aren’t qualified for, and don’t really care if they miss out on applicants that would be great, but have three years of experience in llama grooming instead of 3.5 years.

      1. Washi*

        That’s true, I have encountered applications like that! It didn’t come to mind because it feels like a separate category of ineffective processes for exactly the reasons you mention, and I was focused on the “you have to have this secret keyword in your app to get passed the ATS” category of ineffectiveness.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      They exist, for sure. Generally speaking, if you are rejected within a few minutes of applying to a job through an online portal that requires answering position-specific questions and filling out fields (rather than just uploading a resume), it was filtered by an ATS and kicked out for not having the “right” answers.

      To me, that’s not the problem. The problem arises when it’s not obvious from the job posting what the rejection was based on. If X is required for consideration, make that explicitly clear in the job posting and save those of us without X the bother of applying!

    6. JeanB in NC*

      I’ve received an immediate email a couple of times after taking one of those ridiculous personality tests. In fact, I think there must be something seriously wrong with me, because every single time I’ve ever taken one of those tests, I’m rejected. I don’t even bother applying any more when they require a personality test. And to the best of my knowledge, I am not a psychopath!

      1. Luna*

        ha don’t feel too bad that happens to me too! And I am also pretty sure I’m not a psychopath:)

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Don’t feel too bad, I can’t pass them either. Now my motto is “if you give personality tests, then you are not a company for me.”

    7. Cloud 9 Sandra*

      Ex-job did this. If you lacked sufficient experience, you were rejected. Some of the managers claimed to hate it, but many of the managers and hr people I personally interacted with didn’t deserve an assumption of honesty or decency.

    8. pur8ple*

      I’m in HR and we definitely have the ability to set “knockout” questions when creating job postings but I try to use them very, very sparingly. For example- Do you have the legal right to work in the United States? No? I’m sorry, I can’t hire you. Are you under 18? No? Again, can’t hire you, sorry. For the less black or white questions, like Have you attached your cover letter as requested?, I’m not going to reject them outright for saying yes when they very clearly didn’t, although I *am* going to roll my eyes very, very hard.

    9. Totally Minnie*

      We do. I got auto-rejected from a job my HR manager asked me to apply for because it required two years of experience and I only had 22 months.

  46. Anonymous Ampersand*

    I have an interview next week. My job has been restructured and there are 4 of us interviewing for 3 jobs. The odds are great, obvs, but OHMYGOD I’m scared. Good thoughts next week appreciated.

    1. Bea W*

      That sucks. Someone is obviously going to end up unemployed, and you don’t want it to be you. Best of luck next week!

    2. Anonymous Ampersand*

      It’s likely that they’ll be able to redeploy the unsuccessful one. But I love my job, so I don’t wanna be redeployed. I’ve had quite a bit going on recently, I haven’t got the bandwidth to learn something new :-|

  47. leave me be*

    I’ve noticed that my co-workers frequently comment on my expressions and it’s really uncomfortable for me.
    (for context, I am a younger woman that works in a manufacturing setting. I work with mostly men – all of the comments below came from male co-workers)
    One morning, I walked in to see that construction was going on near my desk so I had to move all of my things to another cube for the morning. I did not say anything rude, mumble under my breath, or slam things around in anger. It’s likely that I did not have a smile on my face, but I wasn’t crying or giving people death glares.
    Later, someone said (in front of our whole team) “Jane was in a BAD MOOD this morning!”
    I did an awkward smile and the conversation went on.
    An hour later in a different meeting, I smiled at someone’s joke. Another person commented, “See Cliff, you even got Jane to smile!”
    At which point I said, “You guys, I’m not in a bad mood or anything I’m not sure why you’re making it seem that way” and they all quieted.
    While the comments I get most are the type of “smile, it’s not so bad!” or “you’re allowed to smile once in a while, you know!”, it goes the other way too! Recently, I smiled at a small comment I heard someone make in a meeting, and someone looked at me and (in a joking way) said “what’s so funny, giggles! Why are you smiling?”
    I guess I just want them to leave me alone and stop commenting on whether I show emotions or not.
    Does this indicate that I need to do a better job regulating my facial expressions? What can I do? Has this happened to you?

    1. Snark*

      This indicates to me that you have a team of nosy weirdos who need to hear something like, “You know, it makes me really uncomfortable that y’all pay this much attention to my facial expressions and talk about my moods so often. I don’t appreciate the running commentary. I’m not a smiley type and I don’t emote much, but you can assume my mood is neutral unless I tell you otherwise.”

      And then I think you can continue to say, “I’m not actually in a bad mood, but I really don’t appreciate the running commentary about my facial expressions. Can you not?”

      1. neverjaunty*

        This. You don’t need to regulate yourself – you need these clowns to stop making it their business to police your supposed mood.

      2. leave me be*

        Definitely nosy.
        I want to do this! I don’t know if it would be “too harsh” though. Judging from the one time I did say something like this and the room became a shocked silence and some people giving each those quick-eyebrow-raise-glances, I feel like doing that gave them a more negative perception of me.

        1. Snark*

          I think a little harshness is merited when it comes to this kind of expression-policing nonsense. You can deliver it with a half-smile, maybe, but it’s not on you to manage their feelings any more than it’s on them to manage yours. I think that can be outweighed by making sure you’re being warm and collegial at other times, but what they’re doing is offensive, and returning awkwardness to sender is just fine in my book.

          1. label queen*

            “returning awkwardness to sender” – love that. I’m going to need to write this on a post it and refer to it daily!
            This is hard for me to do, but I see it is warranted here. Thanks, Snark!

      3. ANon.*

        Agreed: subtle sexism. You can certainly call it out as it is – you deserve to be assertive here – but I also get the urge to need to be polite (ugh – more societal sexism). You can try saying, “You all seem to comment on my mood a lot. But I don’t believe I’ve ever heard any of you comment on anyone else’s mood. Why is that?” and then you can add, “Do you mind not commenting – it feels weird!”

    2. Amelia*

      This seems sexist. In my experience I’ve heard a lot of women get told to smile or commented on not smiling but not men. You mentioned you work with mostly men, do other people in your workplace get called out for not smiling? If it’s happening to others as well my approach would be different than if it’s just happening to you. Does your department have HR? Do you have a mentor in the same employment you could talk to?

      Some people look more stern by default, Resting GrumpyFace or another term often used. You should not have to make your face jolly for the purpose of your coworkers. That’s absurb. As long as you’re not actively glaring you’re fine.

      1. leave me be*

        There are two other women that I work with most frequently. One is on my team, the other is on a different team but we still interact (some people on her team actually have nicknamed her “smiley”)
        The other woman on my team is more emotive and smiley than me. I am not saying she is “phony,” it’s more like she just actively shows positive emotions constantly and is very agreeable. I have a hard time smiling, nodding, and agreeing to things I fundamentally don’t believe are right or true. Maybe the difference between us makes it more obvious that I am not aggressively happy all the time?

        1. Snark*

          I think the diference between you and the other makes the men uncomfortable, because they’re accustomed to the few women they work with being agreeable and complacent, and they’re not sure what to do with someone who doesn’t affirm them.

        2. Jesca*

          I feel for you so hard right now. I have spent my career in a male dominated environment with male manufacturing type personalities. Sexism is so emeshed into the culture, the even the women get used to it in one way or another. In my current place of employment, the women are either totally complacent or quietly seething.

          But when this guy kept telling me I needed to smile and THEN compared me to Eeyore, I politely explained to him what sexism is.
          When my male (worthless) coworker came over to me last week to offer his help (that he has no real experience with) on my new project, I calmly explained to him that the only thing that will prevent my success is the rampant undertones of sexism that exist.
          And … they all stopped!
          I am for 100% calling them out calmly for what it is.

    3. Murphy*

      You’re not doing anything wrong. Your co-workers are sexist. I agree with what Snark said. Tell them it’s not cool.

    4. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      I had a coworker comment on this. To the entire office.

      I am like you. I’m not a smiley person by nature. I’m generally in a good mood and upbeat, but I’m not an outwardly emotional person. He made a comment about me not smiling. I just shrugged it off and said, “It’s just the way my face is.” Another coworker called him out on why he cares. So he yelled, yes – yelled, to the whole office, “WELL, JESUS CHRIST LOOK AT THE SOUR PUSS ON THIS ONE.”

      I was too stunned and mortified to say anything so I did what I do best…….and just ignored him. (Management did nothing and just wrote it off as him being him.)

    5. ContentWrangler*

      Men repeatedly telling you that you should smile more is definitely not your fault. Casual sexism doesn’t make me want to grin either.
      I think continuing to calmly point out the ridiculousness of their comments like you did is the way to go. Simply asking people Why? when they say something sexist often shuts them down because they know they’ll fumble trying to explain it.

    6. Snark*

      I just consulted my wife on this matter, because she has strong facial features and gets lots of comments along these lines. Her usual approach is to make it clear how ridiculous they’re being. Her suggestions:

      “You’re allowed to smile once in a while, you know!”

      “Is there a reason why I need to be doing so right this moment?”

      “Smile, it’s not so bad?”

      “Can I ask why you’re so invested in what facial expression I’m using right now?”

      “Jane was in a BAD MOOD this morning!”

      “I wasn’t, actually, but why is it worth commmenting on now?”

      Or, she says, you could just reply “The only thing that makes me smile is the wailing of my enemies being driven before me as I salt their land and pillage their hovels.” Real deadpan.

      3. As Close As Breakfast*

        Love that last one!

        I’m a big fan of using my two middle fingers to push up the corners of my mouth. I once did this at work. Capping it off with a “Better?” once I had pushed my mouth up into a nice big smile. That dude never told me to smile again.

        (I am the only female engineer at a manufacturing company. It’s a REALLY laid back place, so the double bird wasn’t even close to the worst thing done around here.)

    7. Damn it, Hardison!*

      I think you handled that very well! I have a “Face” – expressive and slightly frowny at rest. I know this, and am lucky that my colleagues don’t read too much into it. Except for one colleague who would regularly ask if I was mad at her. After one too many times, I responded that if I was truly mad at her she wouldn’t need to ask. I said it with a light tone and a smile, but she finally got the message.

    8. Susan Sto Helit*

      It’s rude for people to comment on your facial expressions, and probably gendered as well. Plenty of people have what could be described as ‘stern’ resting faces, and that’s just how they are.

      BUT, if you or anyone else does care, you can train your facial muscles to adopt a ‘softer’ resting position – it’s just a matter of consciously adjusting your expression whenever you’re thinking about it, until muscle memory takes over (it’s the same as correcting slumping shoulders by consciously pulling them back until your posture improves, something I’ve also done). I’m looking at this as an investment in my future elderly, stooped, wrinkled self, however, rather than anything that’s for the benefit of other people!

    9. J.B.*

      I have serious RBF and my parents always razzed me about “scowling”. If it happens again I would talk to someone in relative authority (is there a foreman or shift leader or something?), explain that my face just looked like that, and ask him to have them knock it off.

    10. Betsy*

      You should probably take people’s more sensible solutions on board first. But, in that situation, I would be tempted to react to coming in one morning and making a big deal of their facial expressions, or starting to mock them for not smiling when they’re having a bad day. This would be childish, but would have the example of showing to them how stupid their behaviour is. Because men are hardly ever subject to ‘smile, it will all be OK’ comments (as far as I know it’s not a common way of gender policing men) it will just show them exactly how ludicrous it is if you do it back to them.

    11. Clever Name*

      Is there a ringleader or someone who does this the most often? Start commenting on his expression/demeanor every single time you interact with him.

      “Why the long face, Bob?”
      “What’s so funny? Why are you grinning like a fool?”
      “Aw, cheer up. It’s not so bad.”

      Do it loud enough for others to overhear. He’ll probably be flummoxed and won’t know how to react, and people may laugh/join in. Give him a taste of his own medicine. I was able to get a guy to stop making horrible misogynistic remarks (at least in my hearing) by commenting on everything he said and making him sound like the truly awful person he was. It got to the point that he would apologize to me for swearing. No one messed with me after that. :)

    12. Plague of frogs*

      Yeah, I had a boss who did this. It ended when I killed him.

      Just kidding, but sometimes I wanted to. You can try, “Please don’t comment on my appearance.” They will become defensive, but may stop.

      If you want to be jokey about it, you might try, “Oh, we’re criticizing each other’s faces now? That’s not a game you can win.” But I would really just keep it flat, matter-of-fact, and humorless.

  48. Unattributed Post*

    If one is in a company or department that is undergoing some serious changes (e.g., in focus, in leadership, etc.), how long should one wait for things to settle down and shape out before deciding if it’s worth staying on or seeking something new?

    1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

      Could these changes result in your position being downsized? If so, I would get my resume together and start sending it out. If the changes will not result in a downsize, then I’d probably wait to see what happens. The change could be for the better. In either case, I would definitely polish up that resume.

  49. Blue Anne*

    It’s tax time, and I have once again come across a situation I’m not sure how to handle:

    I called a client with a few questions, and she pressed me to know how much she was going to owe. I gave her a conservative ballpark figure based on what I had at that moment and explained that it’s just an estimate, still in progress, partner is going to check my work so it might change, not final, not final, not final! (This is very common and I have a spiel.)

    I just got an email from her saying that the final figure is higher than I told her and she’d like to know why, although she isn’t mad. I honestly have no idea. Someone probably caught an error and changed it when they reviewed my work. I’ve done 20 other returns since then, I don’t remember any details at all.

    I know I’ll get other people saying the same thing over the next few weeks. If you were a tax client, what would you want to hear in this situation? How can I politely say I have no effing clue, don’t have time to pick through her return to find the change, and that was why I made sure to stress that the estimate wasn’t final?

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I do most of my work through email, so here’s my basic template for anything like that – ie questions with a negative twist or a ‘why did you do this?’:

      Par 1: Apology for inconvenience/misunderstanding/etc.
      Par 2: Answer the question. In this case, something generic and business-y along the lines of “at times a final number may be higher than an estimate, due to revisions to appropriate reporting as we make further determinations regarding your exact liability” etc etc.
      Par 3: Emphasize value of the relationship, show understanding that it stinks to get a higher bill than you expected, assure client that the number is accurate to the best of your ability, etc.

    2. Colette*

      “As I mentioned when I spoke with you, I gave you an estimate. We have several levels of checks to make sure your return is accurate, and we spoke before all of our checks had been completed. One of those checks found an error that resulted in a higher balance owing. I’m sure you understand that we want to make sure your return is correct and complete so that you don’t run into issues with the IRS!”

      1. Not That Jane*

        Yup, I’d emphasize the good part of this process (we are very careful to submit accurate returns!) as a way to help the not so fun part (higher liability than estimated) make more sense in context.

    3. Luna*

      Are the errors or changes recorded anywhere? It seems like they should be, not only for the clients sake but if there is a common error most staff are making it is useful to know so they can correct it going forward. If there is a change in the amount of my tax refund my accountant always explains why (though he is at a much smaller company compared to yours, from what it sounds like). Can you go back into her record to check, or ask the person who reviewed the previous work?

      1. Colette*

        I think that’s a good practice for the group, but maybe not the client? I mean, if you type in 1525 as 1552, there’s not much value in sharing that with the client.

        But Blue Anne says she gave a conservative estimate, which is probably good for refunds, but maybe it would be better to aim higher for situations where the client has to pay so that it’s a good surprise, not a bad one.

        1. Blue Eagle*

          +1 If you estimate high, then the client will be glad they are paying less taxes. If you estimate low, then of course you are the person who is responsible for them paying more taxes. Oh well.

  50. Raine*

    Has anyone ever been called into HR for a cough before?

    I’m recovering from a cold, but unfortunately my lungs are terrible so any time I get a virus I also get a 2-3 week cough until things settle back down. I’ve been to the doctor, I’ve got an inhaler for emergencies, nothing contagious and the coughing is spaced maybe 20-30 minutes apart (I’ve been timing it since getting more frequent = return trip to the doctor).

    Apparently some of my coworkers are worried I’m still contagious because this morning I got pulled into HR so I could reassure them I’m fit to work and give them permission to tell anyone who asks that yes I’m fine and that this is just a quirk of my biology. However now I’m super self conscious about it, I wish I knew who’d brought it up so I could like, I don’t know offer an apology chocolate or something. I know this must be annoying to listen to.

    1. Pollygrammer*

      I don’t think you need to apology chocolate. If I’m cough-y, I usually just give my neighbors a quick heads-up like “I promise I’m not contagious, just asthmatic.”

    2. Close Bracket*

      TIL that not washing one’s hands after using the bathroom is an MYOB situation, but a lingering cough, which is common and not a sign of contagiousness, is reason to go to HR.

      Are such poor understandings of disease transmission really that common?

  51. Gen*

    A few years ago I worked as an online assistant for an indie marketplace type website as a contractor. It was decided that the role was no longer necessary so it was absorbed into someone else’s duties but I was told I’d get first refusal if the role came up again. But of course that was years ago so I wouldn’t really expect them to remember me now. Anyway the job just came up on Facebook again, identical to when I did it. I’ve workef exclusively freelance since them but I’m considering applying again. Does that seem like a bad idea? Should I assume they’ve forgotten me by now or (as my parents advised) should I assume that not being contacted means specifically don’t want me? How would you address not having anything different on your CV since working the same job you’re now applying for? I was freelance before/during/after this role so I’m not quite sure how to structure it since I’ve never had a job with overlapping dates before

    1. Ambpersand*

      Go for it! They probably didn’t contact you because they forgot that the promise was made, or someone else is handling it now and doesn’t know the history. I would assume that they might have forgotten who you are, but I would apply and then send a “heads up” email to your closest contact there to let them know you’re interested and have applied.

    2. Bagpuss*

      Go for it. I would absolutely not assume that it means they don’t want you. It’s much more likely that they have forgotten, or that there have been changes which mean that someone different is in charge of recruiting, or that they think it would be weird to reach out since you left a while back, or they are aware that you are now freelancing and assume that you don’t want to change .

      Worst case scenario if for some reason they *don’t* want you is that they chose not to proceed with your application.

      In terms of your application, I think that i would include your previous work for them, include that you have since been freelancing and pick out some relevant experience you’ve had in your freelance jobs.

      I think it may mean you can offer the best of both worlds – as a former employer, you are familiar with their business and systems, as a freelancer you presumably have to be adaptable so will be able to adjust to any changes in systems or processes they have brought in since you last worked for them.

  52. Amelia*

    Grad Student here, my Boss (my PI) and another grad student got into a fight in front of me during a meeting in Boss’s office. Yelling etc. Other student stormed out. Boss then vented some to me about the other student. I listened silently then turned the subject back to the meeting topic before the fight. I personally can’t stand the other guy but I don’t want to be involved in this at all. I have to work with both of them on things frequently. When the argument started escalating I tried saying “Can I step out” but the Boss told me to stay, I think he thought maybe he could still diffuse the argument from escalating and continue the meeting. Or maybe he wanted a witness to other student’s crazy. Are there any advice on how to handle this sort of situation, or what to say?

    1. Murphy*

      (Former grad student, current university staff.) I think you handled it well. I think the only other thing you maybe could have done once it escalated would have been to just say “I’m going to wait outside.” But you’d have to read the situation, and I probably would have just sat there after being told to stay.

      I think, if your PI tries to vent about the other student again, it would be OK to say that you’d prefer to stay out of it and focus on the work. How well this will go over would depend on your relationship with your PI, but that’s a reasonable thing for you to say. Obviously you can say the same thing if the other student tries to vent to you, but that would be easier since he’s not your boss.

    2. deesse877*

      You did OK. Academics can be really…wilfully obtuse about hierarchy when they get pissed off. If PI ever returns to the subject of the other student’s sins, you can just say you don’t want to discuss it. And if yelling happens again, consider leaving without asking permission (you can pretend to get coffee or go to the restroom and come back). The main thing is to not join a side or faction, because in the long run that just makes you vulnerable to the same abuse.

      1. Amelia*

        I love the idea of running to the bathroom. I’m starting to tell when other student is getting ready to explode in shouting, so I could start just needing coffee around then.

    3. JustaTech*

      I think you did the right thing (even if there isn’t a *good* thing). Does your university/institution have a conflict office? I know some universities do. My former U had to get one after a professor went to the sexual harassment office to complain that another professor had grabbed him by the lapels and shook him in a meeting.
      If you do have such an office it might be useful to ask them for advice (not to turn anyone in).

      This is part of why I left academia, to be honest.

      1. Amelia*

        Im planning on going back to industry. Grad school has really soured my view of academia. I dont know if theres a conflict office, I’ll do some googling.

  53. Place is Burning Down*

    My org has super high turnover. It is (was) a 60 person organization. In the past 6 months two directors have resigned, and a couple weeks ago they laid off a quarter of the staff. And then 2 more directors resigned. This isn’t counting the many others who have left. But of course the senior managers think everyone else is the problem.

    1. Earthwalker*

      Even in a good organization people will quit immediately following a layoff. If they see that the company is unstable, they’ll seek one that is more stable, and the best people will find new jobs quickest.

  54. brightstar*

    I believe there are a couple of posters who are in the records management field, and I have a question about certifications. I’m currently scheduled to take parts 1-5 of the CRM in May. As part of my preparations, I studied the Certified Information Professional study guide from AIIM. I’m wondering if there is any benefit in my going ahead to take that test? In case it helps, my current plan is to get the CRM and the IGP. Today my supervisor recommended the RIM Essentials certificate from ARMA .

    I’m just not sure if there’s a lot of value in the CIP and if you can have too many certificates and certifications. I’m aware that the CRM and the IGP are the most valuable certifications in RIM, but I’d like some other viewpoints on this.

    1. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Hi Brightstar, CRM here! My feeling is that the CIP doesn’t have a much value as the IGP, and in general is less well known as a certification. Most job postings I see list the CRM and IGP, not the CIP. A group that I belong to (RIM people for a specific industry) did a member poll on certifications a few years ago and the CRM and IGP were the most valuable. That said, if there’s not too much financial commitment to taking the test and keeping up with the certification requirements, it doesn’t hurt.

      Good luck on your tests in May! This is unsolicited advice, but I’ve taught CRM prep and graded part 6, so I feel obligated to add – read the test-taking strategies in the CRM study guide. Seriously! It was really helpful for me when answering those questions where 2 of the answers could be correct but I had to choose the one most correct. I did not have a great track record with standardized tests so the strategies were so useful.

      1. brightstar*

        Thanks for the response! I’ve only been considering taking the CIP because it’s only $350 and I passed the practice test fairly easily.

        I’m going to check the strategies right now, thanks!

    2. CRM & CIP*

      I have the CRM and CIP, and I don’t know that the CIP has ever done anything for me. It was good to do the studying, because I did get exposed to different information that way. Think of it this way…the CRM is a deep dive into records management. The CIP is a shallower dive into more areas, so you’re exposed to much more than just ‘records’, but things that are related.

      So, probably won’t help, but sure wouldn’t hurt, to have it.

  55. Book Page*

    Does anyone have advice for organizing space in a shared office when you have ADHD? I have ADHD and share an office the size of some walk in closets with three other people. I especially am in need of being able to see things so I don’t lose them.

    1. label queen*

      One suggestion I have would be Labels.
      This is something that others in your workspace would have a hard time disagreeing with.
      I’m thinking of hanging envelope type of organizers, file folders with labels, paper trays with things like “do today”, “do tomorrow”, “to file”, “requires immediate action”
      Then you don’t have to pick up a paper and think, now what did I want to do with this?

    3. Bagpuss*

      Do you share in the sense of all being in there together, or that you all use the space at different times? If you are all there together, do you have your own desk/space? Do you all have to work on the same things, or do you have ownership of your own tasks? (it’s much easier if you only have to organise your own stuff, rather than having to get 3 other people to adapt to your needs)

      I agree with labels, and also colour-coding.

      For instance, in our office, which has a lot of paper files, we use different colours for different types of work, so you can see at a glance which department a file belongs in.
      A colleague has a white-board on her wall and uses different coloured pens for different things (her roles involves a lot of deadlines, so she uses one colour for hard deadlines, another for desired dates, and so on.)
      Would you ind checklists useful? e.g. if you have to have some things where you can’t see them, would having a specific list you could update to say where a thing is, help?

      Would those sorts of things help?

      1. Book Page*

        It is assumed that all four of us share three desks, because half of our time is spent doing outreach. Obviously, that is not always the case, and I spend 50% of my time in the office at a single desk that works the best for me (well, technically, second best, but the other was already “claimed”). One person prefers to work in another office. The others have also claimed the single filing cabinet, and our shelves are filled with supplies. My coworkers like to “reorganize” every few weeks, so I get a whole bout of confusion once in a while. And we currently have a book truck (library cart) hanging out in our office… but I have no idea why. We don’t create much paper accumulation (that’s mostly fliers that are handed out), and everything is mostly digital. What I need more help with is in the line of files I can’t get rid of, but have no storage (that I trust) for, especially when things tend to change every few weeks.

    5. LilySparrow*

      I found “Organizing Solutions for People With ADHD” by Pinsky very helpful.

      Best tips for me were 1) clear bins, and 2) make things easier to put away than to get out. So, for example, tossing all of one thing into an open topped bin will add a bit of work in finding the one you want, but it makes tidying frictionless. That’s important because I have strong motivation to find the thing, but weak motivation to tidy.

      Clear bins let me see things without being out lying around.

      I’m also a big fan of vertical hanging files.

      1. Book Page*

        I have that book. I’ll have to look at it again and see what I can come up with. I just saw the vertical hanging files thing — I know what I’m getting for our house ASAP.

    6. anonagain*

      Are you allowed to hang things? If so would those wall file things help?
      Can you use the cart at all if you can’t store it somewhere else? Maybe put some supplies on it and put file boxes on the shelves or something?

      1. Book Page*

        My coworker is using it right now… it’s the library’s cart. We’re not even supposed to have it, I think….

  56. Lady Blerd*

    To paraphrase Bart Simpson, Daylight Saving time sucks and blows and that extra hour of sunlight is not worth the loss of a week’s productivity as my body adjusts. From now on I will be sure to take time off the week following the spring (or more accurately late winter) time change because as I get older, my body just can’t deal.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      YES. I have been having the roughest week ever while my body is trying to adjust to the adjusted times. I have never been this tired before in my life, and that includes the period where I had both mono and Lyme Disease simultaneously.

        2. zora*

          Dude, I also flew across the country on Tuesday after Daylight Savings, AND I have started my cycle, which always makes me super exhausted. I literally feel like a zombie. I can’t wait until tonight, I plan to sleep all weekend.

          1. Tris Prior*

            I too got my period Monday morning, the first workday after the time change. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment. This has been the worst week ever. I still feel so jetlagged.

            It’s a terrible time to take time off at my job or else I totally would have. Maybe next year I will do so. I was completely useless at least 2 days out of the week and still find myself needing to check and double check everything I do for dumb mistakes (also noticed that my co-workers have been making more errors too so it’s not just me.).

          2. VelociraptorAttack*

            I only flew over one time zone but I flew out Sunday, back on Tuesday, and I’m pregnant. I went to bed at 7:30 on Wednesday because I couldn’t figure out what time it was but figured I was tired, it was fine.

            1. zora*

              UGHHH The Triple-Whammy!! Such sympathy. May we all be able to sleep for 24 hours straight this weekend.

    2. WellRed*

      Word. I am just recovering from respiratory infection and feel extra awful with the time change. Who cares if it’s lighter outside longer? Still too cold to hang out on the porch with a book.

    3. PB*

      Ugh, yes. I’m also fighting a slight cold. The combination has taken my energy levels down to zero this week. Also, any time it wants to stop snowing would be fine with me.

    4. Middle School Teacher*

      I have had the worst week thanks to DST. Driving to work in dim light and having disrupted sleep is not worth the extra hour of light in the evening, especially since all this week I’ve been in my pjs by 7pm.

    5. Merida Ann*

      I love being on DST and the extra sun is definitely worth it for me, even though this week was especially rough because I had to stay late several days at work. It’s still better to me than losing an hour of sunlight every single day in the winter when the sun is already starting to set when I get off work at 4:30. But I live in Florida, so it’s also warming up, so with that plus all the extra evening sunlight, it truly does feel like spring here now. We’ve got a bill sitting on the Governor’s desk right now that would allow Florida to stay on DST year round and I’m so excited for that!

      1. Natalie*

        Yeah, given that time is largely arbitrary I’d be perfectly happy to stay on “savings time” all year round (we’re there 7 months of the year, so really winter time should be considered the oddball). They can move 9 am to midnight as long as it just STAYS THERE.

        1. JeanB in NC*

          I’ve often said I wish we stayed on DST all year. I like it better when it’s light out later, rather than light earlier but then I’m a night owl anyway.

      2. Lady Blerd*

        Honestly, I hope they do this where I live. It would mean the sun would be gone by 4pm during Winter but it would be short lived

    6. Travelling Circus*

      Ugh, yes. My kids are not handling the time change well, either. It’s been a rough week. I don’t know about anyone else, but I have been drinking so many pots of coffee this week.

    7. Former Admin Turned Project Manager*

      Agreed. I am fighting a cold and I gave up caffeine for Lent (bad move). This week has been a nightmare. It was bad enough when the time change happened in April; the change to a longer DST has just made me crankier.

    8. Elizabeth H.*

      This is the most horrible week, I have had terrible trouble sleeping which never happens and so many things have gone wrong. I have forgotten a million things in the wrong place, taken my friend’s car keys by mistake along with mine, unintentionally upset my roommate, been really late for work, and everything else. This is the very first time that DST has ever affected me like this which is weird. (This is also the first year for me to get any gray hair, get lower back pain and turn 30 so maybe I am just AGING) The other strange thing is that opinion wise, I usually hate the time change in spring – I specifically don’t like it when it is light out in the evening but not hot out – but because it’s still so cold and snowy here I’m not as bothered as I usually am. So this year my reaction is totally inverted in terms of physiological effect/opinion.

    9. Marthooh*

      I hate to Spring Forward!

      Over the years, I’ve learned to prepare by starting to get up five minutes earlier every day, starting a week or two before the actual time change. It screws with my schedule a bit but it’s worth it.

  57. AnonAndOn*

    Weekly unemployment thread.

    My updates: the part-time temp job continues to go well and I get good feedback on it. There’s no chance of it becoming permanent or full-time since the work is seasonal, but that’s fine by me.

    I sent a follow-up to the permanent full-time job I had a phone interview with weeks back and they never replied back. Have to count it as a loss and move on.

    What’s been going on with anyone else here who is trying to get back into the workforce?

    1. .*

      First week after I got laid off unexpectedly last week :( I am payed out for 6 weeks but am not eligible for unemployment benefits after that (I’m not in the US so different laws). I have some money saved up and I’m not that stressed about money, it’s more the optics of having a gap, it took me 1.5 years after graduation to land this job, which I stayed at for 1 year. I have some experience in the field I wanna continue (not the right degree) and an excellent reference of my supervisor who is pretty upset at the management of how and why it was done, so it’s not that I don’t have anything to work with.. but I still feel.. kinda blah.
      I took last week to mourn/get used to losing my job. But was gonna hit the ground running and get stuff done and apply a bunch this week, aaaand got nothing done except change my linkedin profile and finish my resume… I guess I’m looking for ways to structure my days a bit more. I would be horrible at telecommuting. I have been getting to bed later and waking up later than when I was working. It’s difficult to be productive at home, anyone have some tips that helped them? The pomodoro technique is one that used to help before but I don’t take it seriously this time, like I keep putting things off :/

      1. WellRed*

        When I was unemployed I made sure to hit the gym every morning (around 1030). Then job search stuff for a few hours, then a coffee around 3 at the coffee place down the street. It’s not a lot of structure, but it worked for me.

      2. The New Wanderer*

        My rule is to get the job searching stuff done in the first three hours of the day. I have been on unemployment and there are weekly requirements for job searching activities so that helps keep me on track. After lunch is “my” time, and I’ll either spend it looking at other jobs, AAM, or doing something completely unrelated.

        You might find you get more motivated when you start seeing jobs you’re interested in, and other days when there’s just nothing it’s harder to keep on track. But as long as it’s all balancing out to whatever your goal is for the week (jobs applied to or hours spent), it’s good.

        1. .*

          Thanks guys for the suggestions, it sounds so dumb but I forgot about working out. I used to bike to work, getting me 40 mins of cardio a day. I’ve been a morning runner in uni and I’d love to go running again in the mornings, or even just going on a walk.
          I also love the idea of mornings being dedicated job searching time and having afterwards time off. Right now I’m taking whole day off but stressing at the same time and not really enjoying it.
          Just have to get through writing a good cover letter and remind myself that a good cover letter now, is better than a non-existent perfect one.

    2. ginkgo*

      Found out yesterday that I didn’t get a job I interviewed for. Boo. This has had the strange effect of making me more anxious about a job I AM still in the running for (interview on Monday) – not about getting it, but about whether I would like it! I think in my head the job I didn’t get was my first choice, and I had just figured I’d accept it if offered, so wasn’t thinking too much about the other job.

      The job I am still in the running for has a long commute and a product I don’t love, but the pay and benefits are both incredible. I’m just so nervous!

    3. Travelling Circus*

      Things are…not awesome in my neck of the job hunting woods. I swear every application I send gets sucked into an job application black hole by a giant vacuum (probably a Dyson, because this thing is crazy powerful and sucks up EVERYTHING).

      I went through the AAM archives beforehand to tweak/revise my resume and to get cover letter tips, but still nothing. I’ve written so many cover letters, my brain just shuts down when I type “Dear Hiring Manager” yet again.

      Oh well. Onwards, I guess.

    4. The New Wanderer*

      I was pinged by a recruiter a few weeks ago about a possible job opening up locally. I haven’t heard from him since but I contacted one of my colleagues there (she’s very senior there) and she offered to talk to the hiring manager and is now passing on my resume. I think it would be a really good fit so fingers crossed!

      I commented elsewhere that I have a second phone interview next week with another company, but there are several big drawbacks to that job. I probably wouldn’t turn it down (if the first place isn’t interested), but I usually hit a wall with second interviews for this type of company so I’m not holding my breath for an offer either.

    5. Bluebell*

      Husband didn’t get the temp gig he thought he was close to getting. They thought it might be too fast paced for him. He does have an interview next week which is promising.

    6. Sapphire (formerly EnobyPro)*

      I had an in-person interview at a university last week on Wednesday, and got a call saying I was a finalist on Friday. Presumably they’re contacting my references now (and yes, I did reach out to all of them), so fingers crossed!

  58. jenniferthebillionth*

    It’s Match Day! Anyone else who works with medical school students…. please take a moment to breathe. We’re all going to be fine. I think. Now, back to guarding information!

  59. AlexandrinaVictoria*

    It seems I am now in charge of a peer’s professional development. I am working on a special project that she expressed an interest in. She is not ready for this project, but my supervisor told her she could do it and I’m now in charge of training, coaching and overseeing her work. She is pure velco at this point…very needy, complains about what she has to do, and is taking major time away from my working time. I’ve spoken to my sup about this, and he just shrugs. Suggestions?

    1. Luna*

      I don’t have any great advice on how to get her to change, but maybe it will help if you view it as a professional development experience for yourself as well? I’m thinking along the lines of getting to experience managing & training another employee, if management is an area you want to move into down the road. It won’t stop her complaints, but it might make them easier to put up with?

      The only other idea I have is to try to restrict the times when she is able to ask you questions, like only during daily or weekly check in meetings.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Remind her that she wanted this project.

      Complaints. Tell her you have your own complaints and you have found it easier to push complaints to one side and focus on the work. Unless she has a complaint you can fix/help, you would appreciate it if she kept her complaints to herself.

      Needy. Remind her again that she wanted the project. If you have reviewed the step/detail with her remind her of that also. Insist she use a notebook as you cannot explain things over and over.

      Overseeing her work. She should not submit any work to you that she has not reviewed. She should not submit any work for your review that she feels is less than 100% her best effort.

      Boss. Since the boss seems to have lost his spine, go back to him and tell him your new game plan for working with her. Tell him that if she complains (which she will) here is what is happening and why. At this point the boss will probably tell you to go for it OR he will grow a spine and speak to her.

    4. Think first*

      If she has questions, turn them back on her? Eg ‘What should I say in this report?’ ‘Hmm, what do you think it needs to cover?’

  60. bluelyon*

    Just a rant – our office culture sucks because people were never taught that they need to be a grownup at work. We don’t need to waste a day meeting with an ombudsman (or frankly the 50K being spent on his services)

    80% of people’s unhappiness would be solved if they focused on their work rather than personal slights. It’s not high school.
    The other 20% is recognizing that no workplace will ever be perfect but some will come closer than others.

    1. Drop Bear*

      In Australia an Ombudsman is a government officer who investigates complaints about government agencies (and the like) on behalf of private citizens. Do they have a different role in the US?

      1. zora*

        in the US we have that kind of Ombudsman also. But some large employers also have an internal Ombudsman who holds a similar role, in that they handle internal complaints and issues. I have seen them most frequently in newspapers, and in higher education.

      2. bluelyon*

        Zora has the US analysis down – I’ve only ever seen them in places like Higher Ed. where I suppose there’s no reason an employee couldn’t talk to them but they were mostly there for students.
        This one is being spun as a not-HR person we can talk to who will convey high level information to the board.
        Mostly it’s a very expensive waste of time and money.

        1. zora*

          oy that is so annoying, I’m sorry.

          I temped for a very large corporation that had an ombudsman, I only knew because I saw him listed in a directory. But apparently it was specifically for bringing ethical complaints about the business functions to, as opposed to HR, because the ombudsman could go straight to the C-suite/the board.

          1. bluelyon*

            Thanks … yeah I think there are ways an ombudsman can have a lot of value – particularly in the instances you mention.
            This is one of those theory vs implementation nightmares

  61. MassholeMarketer*

    I’m passively looking for a new job and I definitely wouldn’t leave my current job unless it were a really good fit. I have an application out right now that I’m hoping I’ll get a call about soon for some sort of interview (it would be a promotion doing more of what I’d like to do).
    I have a great working relationship with my boss – I’ve been open with him in the past about how I would like to be promoted at some point and how I do not want to do the primary focus of my job forever (this is my first job out of college – I’ve been here for almost three years). He’s very supportive and I feel like I can go to him with things.
    That being said, what are your thoughts on keeping your manager in the loop about something like a passive job search?

    1. MassholeMarketer*

      Also, I used a picture on my resume and of course THEN read Alison’s advice on not doing that. I’m in marketing, though, so I hope it won’t hurt my chances…?

    2. k.k*

      I would not tell your boss about this. Even if he’s outwardly very supportive, it would then always be in the back of his mind that you’re halfway out the door. This could impact your ability to be given more responsibility or promotions, because there’s always the thought of “Well are they even going to be here next month?” I wouldn’t risk it.

      1. Ambpersand*

        Agreed. I’m in the same boat (I’m a non-temp contractor with a pretty good job and a great relationship with my on-site supervisor but I’ve been casually looking for non-contracting roles closer to home), but I wouldn’t tell her unless I had something concrete. KK above stated it really well- it might just give them the idea that you aren’t committed to your current or future projects.

        1. MassholeMarketer*

          Thank you all! I actually just received a phone call about an interview for Monday so fingers crossed – I definitely won’t let my boss know until I have an offer on the table!

    2. neverjaunty*

      Honestly, this sounds like the kind of bad parody of diversity initiatives you’d see on a certain kind of political site.

      PS: unless your co-workers flat out tell you they’re straight, seems a little heteronormative to assume they are.

  63. Junior Dev*

    My boss is remote (in another city) and my coworker is doing things like assigning me work…I am looking for scripts to clarify with my boss what the relationship should be with my coworker. Are there any past letters on a similar theme?

    1. neverjaunty*

      Have you tried clarifying with the co-worker first? “Fergus, I’m confused, is this something Boss asked you to assign me?”

      1. Junior Dev*

        I’m really nervous about pushing back so explicitly, for a couple reasons.

        One is that I got fired from the job before this for reasons that are complicated, but it didn’t help that I had my own ideas on how things should be done and when I tried to advocate for them, I got labeled “abrasive.” So I really want explicit approval from the boss before I push back on anything.

        Another is that my coworker is pretty aggressive with her own ideas and I don’t know that she’ll really understand or appreciate the distinction between “this is how I personally think things should be done” and “this is how things are officially supposed to be done.”

        If my coworker is really supposed to be in a supervisory role over me, then frankly she is a bad manager, because she’s told me to focus on one thing, then changed her mind and come up with other stuff I need to do RIGHT NOW in a way that would require me to drop and lose my focus on the previous assignment. If this is the case I need to ask our boss about how I can try to get the co-worker to think more long-term (as in, longer than a day). On the other hand, if her ideas as to how I should be spending my time are suggestions, I need to have a sense of how to convince her that our boss will be satisfied with the way I have been doing things.

        I’m terribly anxious about all this, I wanted a job where the structure of what I was supposed to do would be clearer, and I thought I did my due diligence to figure out in the interview what that would be like here, but so far it’s been really confusing.

        1. Someone else*

          Boss, COWORKER has occasionally been assigning me A or B. I usually wouldn’t expect COWORKER to assign things to me. Could you clarify for me if you want me to do these things when COWORKER requests it, or is that something COWORKER should be doing? I want to make sure I understand the structure in our office.

          Something like that. Make sure your tone is asking for clarification, not accusing or complaining, and you won’t get labeled anything. The point here isn’t that your coworker is wrong, it’s that you’re not sure if it’s what the boss wants, and getting the boss to tell you. If boss says you’re right, then you can push back to coworker with “boss asked me to X instead you’ll need to do this yourself” or if boss says “yeah you should be doing that”, then you should be doing it.

  64. Michaela*

    Over the next four weeks, my department is going to go from two women to SIX. I am so thrilled; I work in tech and it’s going to be SO NICE to not be the only woman in the room (the other woman who’s here now & I aren’t on the same team). The other woman in the office and I would like to take the new women out to lunch once they’re all here (one month!) and hopefully make it a monthly thing after that — our departmental director’s been vocal about wanting to support diversity on the team and promote positive relationships between staff, so I think we’ve got a reasonable chance of getting him to support this as a semi-official thing, and cover some/all of the cost. Do people have suggestions for how to frame proposing this (or is it a normal enough request I don’t have to worry)?

    1. Susan Sto Helit*

      My guess would be that a monthly official lunch for only female employees would be considered some sort of discrimination, if the men in the office don’t have the same opportunities. You’d be fine to invite all the women out for lunch with you, and talk about ways in which you can support each other, but I think most companies would balk at making any gender-restricted events official.

      1. Emi.*

        My workplace has a “women’s community of practice” which is officially not restricted to women … but basically no men ever come. So you might be able to achieve your goal (semi-official thing where women hang out and support each other and discuss women’s issues) without making it no-boys-allowed.

        1. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

          I agree with Emi. You could probably have a monthly “Women in Tech” luncheon that men (or whoever) could attend if they want to. You probably can’t have a job-sponsored “Women-only” luncheon.

          Though they will likely end up with the same result. Of course, it’s entirely possible there are men or LGBTQ or nonbinary employees that would be good contributors to the discussion at such a luncheon in your workplace anyway.

  65. Roly Poly Little Bat-Faced Girl*

    I’m wondering if I should ask HR for an ADA reasonable accommodation for my hearing loss. I have a moderate hearing loss. I could wear hearing aids, but they are very expensive and not covered by insurance. I know someday I’ll need them, but I can’t buy them at this point.
    I work in an office with a door, which I keep closed when I’m on conference calls. To compensate for my hearing loss, I do have my speaker phone volume turned up. I found out that the person who sits in the cube outside my office has complained to their manager about how loud I am (really, the speaker on my phone; I don’t have a loud voice).

    I feel bad for disturbing them, but wondering if I should contact HR about my hearing loss and see if there are special wireless headsets for my type of hearing loss that my employer could purchase for me. I don’t want to wear headphones that I have to turn up real loud in order to understand what people are saying; I’d like to preserve what hearing I have left. I’d have no trouble obtaining a doctor’s sign-off about the extent of my hearing loss. Any other ideas? Thank you!

    1. Pollygrammer*

      Definitely ask about headsets, they really aren’t particularly expensive and your work would probably be very reasonable about it.

    2. Florida*

      Yes, ask for accommodations. If they suggest some cheapy headphones that you have to turn up real loud, just say, “That won’t work.”
      You can put this problem on them. You currently have a solution that is working for you (using the speaker phone). If they don’t want you to do that, they need to accommodate the alternative.

      1. zora*

        Yes this. Get the info about the headphones you need, and the doctor’s note, and then take that info to your HR. It’s a small amount of money in the grand scheme of a company’s annual budget!! And in a reasonable company, would be a small fix that would make multiple people happier and they would be happy to do it! I don’t see any harm in asking, if they say no, you can then figure out what other options you have.

    4. Thursday Next*

      Your user name is the second Paul Simon reference in the open thread. Now I need to listen to Graceland!

  66. Larina*

    How do you change industries/find new jobs when you’re new(ish) to the work force? I’ve been out of college for just under 3 years. I’ve got a decent position at my current company, but want to leave for a lot of reasons. My current position is hyper specific to a service the company provides (and my title isn’t very helpful because it’s very unique to the company and unrelated to other fields), and any time I look into fields where some of the skills I have might transfer, any low level positions are a serious downgrades in pay from what I’m currently making.

    Tips and advice for making a jump into other fields when you’ve cultivated a very narrow set of skills?

    1. Ambpersand*

      I’m planning on making a jump into an entirely different career (from project support to marketing) in the next year or so now that I’ve been out of college for a year, but my main goal right now is to work on volunteering and certifications in my free time. It’s helping me to build a portfolio and get the necessary skills so I can get an “in.” Are there any courses or certifications you could work on that would be helpful for your desired field?

    2. Washi*

      Without knowing anything about your industry, is it possible to make a kind of intermediate jump to something that’s maybe not in your field, but would let you move up or cultivate the skills you need to make the final jump? That’s what I did when there was a very specific position in a very specific field that I wanted. I first took a mostly unrelated job in that field, then through a combination of that work and volunteering, was able to make the case that I was qualified for the job I wanted.

  67. Pickles*

    Got a question I was hoping you guys could help me with, not an imminent problem but something I want to work out a plan for in advance when it inevitably will arise.

    There is a guy who sexually assaulted me, and later plain assaulted-assaulted me. From the look on his face, I have no doubt that he would kill me if it was advantageous for him and he knew he could get away with it. I reported these assaults to our organization at the time, which did nothing. I didn’t involve law enforcement because I didn’t think they’d do anything, and because I thought it would provoke him into assaulting me again.

    We’ve both since moved on and have reached very prestigious positions in our careers, the sort where we both now fly all over the country to give presentations. What do I do if I get invited to give a presentation in his city or at his organization, or vice versa? It would be a serious threat to my life to be in the same location as him. If I’m aware and alert and around people I would be fine, but it would only take one moment where I let my guard down when I’m somewhere alone for something really, really bad to happen.

    If he comes here, do I see if my employer will hire a bodyguard for me, or do I leave town for a few days until he clears out? What do I tell my employer? And if I get invited to give a talk where he is, do I ask the people inviting me if they’ll hire a bodyguard for me, or do I turn them down, and what do I say?

    1. fposte*

      I’m sorry, Pickles; what a terrible thing. I think some of this question is about what you want to do and feel safe doing; I’ll address the logistics part of it because I think I have more to offer there.

      If you’re in the U.S., a specific bodyguard for you is a pretty unlikely thing for a company to hire unless you’re CEO/celeb level; more likely they’ll work with any existing security to be aware of this individual and to be responsive to your specific requests. It would be a good idea to have some specific requests ready–do you want direct contact information for the security staff on hand, for instance? Shadowing when walking to your car?–and to have information ready for them, such as his name, photos, any particular habits of his violent pattern that would be relevant (like does he lurk outside the ladies’ room, threaten you first for maximum impact, or things like that). I think also that unless you’re in a security-minded field the likely staff aren’t serious tough guys or very well paid, so their quality will vary; I would consider them more an alarm system than a protection.

      1. Pickles*

        Yeah, security here is… nonexistent. It is, in fact, 100% possible AND LEGAL for any rando off the street to carry a gun into my building.

        So any security solution has to be at the level of people in my immediate vicinity.

    2. Pollygrammer*

      I’m so sorry. Would it be enough to have a tough and trustworthy coworker (if such a coworker exists) go with you?

      Absolutely tell your work about even the slimmest possibility of safety issues or trauma-triggering issues. Absolutely.

    3. Cherie*

      Is your employer generally reasonable? If you have a decent manager and a decent relationship, hopefully you could explain this in the least dramatic but still clear way and ask for help coming up with a way to get the business need solved without jeapordizing your own safety.

    4. Temperance*

      I would talk to building security and give them the dude’s photo/information. There are a good number of people who are banned from my building, and our security staff is to turn them away if they try to get in. We’re also on locked floors, so only people who work for my org can get in. There are many things you can ask them to do to protect you.

      I don’t think that you can ask your employers to hire a bodyguard for you if this guy is in town. You can absolutely ask them to protect you at work, using the information that I gave above, but hiring a bodyguard for someone for 24/7 protection is really rare.

      Have you spoken with a DV organization, RAINN, or a therapist about this, so you can develop a safety plan? You need to lay it all out.

    5. Temperance*

      Also, on your second point, about traveling to where this guy lives: you can decline requests that make you feel unsafe. You can’t really ask for a bodyguard to be assigned to you personally, but there are many things you can do to ensure your own safety.

      You can also ask the group inviting you about venue security, and let them know that John Smith can absolutely not be let in to the conference. You can tell the hotel staff that under no circumstances can they confirm that you are staying in that hotel, nor can they transfer any calls to your room. If you talk to management and let them know your concerns (that you had a past abusive history with someone who lives in that town), they will handle it, confidentially. I worked in a hotel for a period of time, and hotel staff have dealt with this scenario many times.

    6. Kuododi*

      Nothing really to add on top of the already excellent suggestions. Just wanted to let you know that you will be in my heart. Grace and peace.

  68. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

    No real remedies, but I just need to howl about how many of the programs I use every day grab focus when they load new data. STOPPIT! I don’t need to see the client’s editable profile when I plug their account number in to a totally different screen! Go away!

    1. Alice Ulf*

      UGH, I totally understand this pain. My agency replaced our old (totally acceptable) phone/IM system with one that is aesthetically fancy but functionally terrible, and every time someone 1) messages me, 2) calls me, 3) leaves me a voicemail or 4) DOESN’T leave me a voicemail, it pushes me out of whatever program I am using, even if I am in the middle of typing a sentence. So far, I can’t find any way to fix the settings.

      *silent screaming*

  69. Soz*

    I’ve been asked to put together a panel of young people for the next Big Industry Conference. This will be the main panel discussion in front of all the delegates attending. The topic is is “what we can learn from the younger generation?”

    What I would love to ask you all is: have you ever learnt valuable lessons from the younger generations or is this just some misbelief driven by groupthink?
    As I look further into the subject I find my confidence waining: have I really got anything to teach those older than me? I also don’t think millennials are the generation to get excited about: generation Z (under 25’s) seem to be the real technological natives. They’ve learnt from our mistakes, and are much more savvy. How can I convincingly make the original case on a panel without any conviction in it myself? (or maybe that’s the point: I should argue another point, but as I’m putting the group together I don’t want to then turn round and say they are wrong)
    But on the other hand in my search for panel members I have found someone who was part of a reverse mentoring scheme: where graduates mentor those higher up in their organisation. This seems to have mainly highlighted internal management problems (from sexism to morale) so there can be some good, but this seems more like management understanding their organisation than specifically about youth.
    So in summary, I would love to know some real life stories: while the the plural of anecdote isn’t data it’s interesting to understand a bit more about the differences and how generations interact from someone else’s view. I’m really wondering what I’m missing: when the head of teapot making from one of the biggest teapot makers tells you that they really appreciate seeing how younger people make teapots you think they must have a reason to be interested. Also why would they want me to be around other than just wanting to be nice to a young professional, getting only gratitude back.

    1. Probably Nerdy*

      Maybe this is just my experience, but I think that the Gen-Z digital native skills are kind of overblown or misattributed – what they are really good at is communicating digitally, not necessarily tech savvy.

      I used to teach at undergrad level. Those kids were experts at whatever digital fad was spreading like an epidemic that day. However, if I asked them to “Download and extract this .zip file to your working directory” probably 50%+ couldn’t do it (STEM majors!), had no idea what that even meant.

      1. Ambpersand*

        I oversee a gen-z, and while she’s very smart, she finger-pokes to type and I’ve taught her really simple computer commands (such as ctrl+F) to her complete and utter amazement. She didn’t know how to copy someone on an email or what that even MEANT when she started. Our last gen-z co-op/intern was the same way. Technologically speaking, I think the millennial vs gen-z distinction isn’t really necessary here.

      2. Betsy*

        I teach undergrads too and I disagree. They’re definitely not all great at video production or other areas you might assume they’d be good at, but there is a real comfort with technology in general.

        Oh, and seeing the comment below, I’m a millenial who ‘finger pokes’ and I don’t think it makes me less technologically savvy. In my experience, it’s older generations who took typing classes at school. We had some training, but it was very brief.

        1. Ambpersand*

          Sorry- I didn’t mean any offense by the “finger pokes” comment, and only referenced it because the Gen-Z in particular made a comment along the lines of “It’s really cool that you can type so fast! How do you do it?” and wasn’t aware that typing classes even existed (until I told her about the one that I took my freshman year of high school, which was only about 10 years ago). It was more of a statement on how unaware of things that they haven’t ever come across before – like we all can be at times- not a slam on her or anyone else’s inability. They may be naturally comfortable with technology, but that does always equate into automatic, hard skills.

          Another example- just an hour or two ago, she asked me if it was possible to track a UPS package that she created without using a direct tracking link and if there was a “code” that she could input somewhere online.

    2. Manders*

      As a millennial: We grew up in a period of a lot of technical change, and I think that shows in our outlook. A lot of us got very good at searching for information when we’re having a problem. In fact, I’ve read that people who got used to computers around the time that they were still pretty glitchy and prone to crashing got very good at troubleshooting technical errors in a way that later generations didn’t have the chance to learn. I think a lot of us got used to the idea that technology moves fast, and we don’t tend to whine about changes.

      As the spouse of someone who works with generation Z kids: I’m blown away by how these kids are sharing information with each other, paying attention to the world around them, and thinking critically about big topics like race, gender, and sexuality. I think they’re comfortable with social media in a way a lot of millennials aren’t. A lot of them are used to technology working well right out of the box, so they can get frustrated when something isn’t working right off the bat.

      That said, generations aren’t monolithic, and every group of people’s going to have people who pick up new technology fast and luddites who dig their heels in and resist change in roughly equal percentages. My husband works with some generation Z kids who are already building their own computers and messing around with gaming mods, and others who’d happily swear off all technology and live in the woods.

    3. AMPG*

      I actually think you’ve dismissed the “internal management” bit too readily. I’ve had a couple of conversations with my fellow Gen-Xers about how Millennials are much better at forcing organizational change than we are, and I think that’s something you could explore. Fighting discrimination could be a subset of that topic – I’ve also had some recent conversations about how attitudes about racism and sexism that would’ve been considered pretty cutting-edge in the 90’s (when I was just starting out) are extremely outdated today. So I think that’s worth exploring.

      1. Manders*

        Oh yeah, that’s an important one! I think both Millennials and Gen Z are willing to push back against discrimination in a big way.

        Also, I think the aftermath of the great recession is still with us in the sense that we don’t tend to look at our jobs as permanent positions. We expect to change jobs, and maybe even fields, many times in our lives. A lot of us are also used to the idea that the easiest way to get a raise is to switch companies (which can sometimes be a great way to get out of a rut, but it does mean managers may be losing good people who never even asked for a raise). And we tend to side-eye companies that expect “loyalty” from us. So that attitude will definitely change corporate culture.

      2. Pollygrammer*

        I think millenials also come to term with change more easily, probably because they’ve seen so much of it become successful so rapidly. As an example, my workplace tried a new Green initiative. The younger folks all seriously committed but lots of the older people brushed it off as just one more temporary fad they weren’t willing to have faith in.

    4. Emi.*

      Honestly in my experience millennials have a better perspective on technology than Gen Z, because we remember a pre-smartphone explosion era better. That comparison makes us more aware of the perils of technology and its misuse, whereas Gen Z kids seem to take it more for granted that this is just how the world is. (We also have more credibility among The Youth than our parents, because our argument sounds less like “get off my lawn” and more “here is how Twitter has negatively affected my own personal life.”)

      Also, Gen Z seems disturbingly blase about mass surveillance. :(

    5. CatCat*

      I think it could be valuable to ask the panel what their workplace expectations are and what type of things attract the panel members to a company. I was at a government conference and some young developers had made some really interesting and useful technical tools. The head of one of the government IT departments asked the panel members, “In government, we can’t offer the high salaries that the tech companies can offer. In light of that, what are some things that we can do to attract people like you to our organizations?” The responses made clear that the pay was not as high a priority as meaningful work and a very high level of flexibility (work when you want, e.g. midnight if that’s when is best for you; and from where you want, e.g., basically be able to telework almost all the time). It was interesting! (But lol, that high level of flexibility is not coming to my organization any time soon!)

      1. CatCat*

        So what you’re learning from them is that the “normal” that may exist in the workplace in Big Industry may be different from the normal that may need to exist in the future.

    6. Razilynn*

      Gen Y here (I really think I’m “too old” to be a textbook Millennial, but not old enough to be true Gen X). From what I’ve seen in my about 12 years in corporate America is that a lot of the older generations just do what’s always been done because that’s the way it’s always been. They say they want new or innovative ideas, but then don’t want to put in the effort and time (and money) needed to implement those ideas. I’ve seen younger people pitch excellent ideas that in the long run would be time and cost saving, but received responses like, “the higher-ups won’t agree to that because it will seem too difficult, too different, it can’t be explained in a way they’ll understand,” etc. Give us a chance and help us present ideas in a way that will cater to those you think won’t get it.

      I’ve also seen younger people be brushed off or “shushed” when asking questions. It’s like they think we’re too dumb (and too young) to understand what’s going on, but no one will teach us. I had a manager who would “tell me to do something” like it was an order. I had no idea what the situation was or why I was doing what I was doing. At one point she actually said, “I’m your boss and when I tell you do something, you should just do it. No questions asked.” I literally learned nothing; my skills never improved. I was told to do training on my own, but never had time to do so because of the workload and deadlines, and I didn’t think it was right to make me do unpaid training on the weekends (that’s MY time). Then I was downgraded on my performance review for not being better at my job/not being at the level they thought someone with that amount of experience should be. I ended up quitting because she was so ridged in “her ways” that she was impossible to work with.

      Take the time to teach the younger generations and you will be rewarded exponentially. We crave knowledge, we LOVE learning – we just hate blindly memorizing things in order to take a one-time test. Engage me and I will grow.

    7. Millennial Lawyer*

      Maybe making a more inclusive work environment, if that fits for your job/industry? I feel like millenials are leading the charge with things such as making sure their office has a gender neutral bathroom, or that language is respectful to women, etc.

    8. Betsy*

      I teach Gen Z, and I’d go against the stereotypes to say they’re a lot more grounded in many ways. My teen years were in the 90s and I basically *knew* that the world was going to be a better place. We’d fight stuff like racism and sexism and homophobia and we’d make everything better.

      I think the time we’re living in now is difficult economically and kind of scary politically. People like to hate on Gen Z, but if they had to go to university and work heaps of hours while studying full-time to afford a tiny, crappy room in some falling apart sharehouse, they’re probably quite disciplined and resourceful. To me, it sounds like, in a lot of ways, they’re having a more difficult time of things than Boomers, Gen X or Millennials. There’s also been qualification creep, so they need what seems like an exhausting amount of achievements to get into a good program, to then get into a good master’s program, to get in the door at an entry-level job to then work their way up.

      1. Manders*

        Yes, the qualification creep and economic pressure is a big deal for Gen Z. My husband is working with 9th graders who are already starting to feel burned out by all the activities they’re doing to get into good colleges. Millenials had to deal with being told college was a ticket to a great job and then finding out when they got out of school that wasn’t true; Gen Z is more likely to believe college is a requirement for any office job.

        Workers of all ages are also dealing with a housing market that’s wildly out of control in job centers. So anything you can do to push back against qualification creep and make sure the entry level pay scale keeps up with rental costs will go over very well with both Millenials and Gen Z (and certainly won’t hurt older workers either).

    9. Laura H*

      I’m not sure.

      But I know that I kinda make mental notes on processes so that I can back step upon a screw up.

      Also ASKING (the right) QUESTIONS is super important. And learn your methods that work for you- but be ready to adjust ASAP.

    10. Gertrude*

      Things I’ve really pushed hard with older generations (at work with colleagues, with my parents, etc.):
      – Acceptable language toward women / minorities / LGBT+. I’ve had multiple conversations talking about how, although not intentional, certain questions or comments are incredibly offensive.
      – Purpose. I don’t just care about my company’s bottom line. I want to have a purpose or some other more altruistic point to my existence. I was in college during the recession, so I came into adulthood seeing people be frantic and that money is never a given. I want any company I work at to be good at corporate responsibility and really contribute more than just taxes.
      – Continuous innovation. I remember writing my first report in 3rd grade on a clunky gigantic computer. We’ve seen a lot of change in our lifetime, from cell phones to other technological advances, and we’ve had to be comfortable with change. I help older generations with understanding new apps, technology glitches, and everything in between. I think we have a level of patience when it comes to troubleshooting since we were there when things weren’t smooth.
      – Realistic. People wonder why millenials are obsessed with avocado toast or have wanderlust. We got tons of college loans that we are going to be paying off forever, have seen some pretty scary things politically, and can’t afford a house out of college. The economics are out of whack for our generation. Instead of worrying about what we can’t have because wages haven’t kept up, we’ve turned to things we can control and a different perspective on what we care about. Instead of lamenting that I won’t be able to afford a starter home, I try to live “in the moment” since I’ve seen via the economic crash that you never know if there will be a time in the future to use that money.

  70. Amber Rose*

    We are moving to the building that’s just 10 minutes from my house. *cheers*
    Makes it really hard to leave this job, even harder than it was. Shrinking my commute by 45 minutes each way is huge.

    Anyways, I’ve had a bunch of meetings with managers who always asks what I do. So I give them my list of about 20 different things and they always fill a whole page with notes then ask, “can you take on more tasks?” Am I… am I not doing a lot already? I’m always kind of floored by this question. Even worse because they ask and then never tell me what more they want me to do.

    Anyways I kind of snapped a little during this last instance of it and said, “sure, but you need to tell me what you want me to do. I’ve already taken on X, Y and Z in addition to helping with A, B and C, and I’m out of ideas.”

    I get that initiative is important and I think I’ve done pretty well, but it’s gotta stop somewhere right? At what point can I stop adopting new work?!

    1. Bagpuss*

      I think asking ‘What additional tasks were you thinking of?’ is a totally reasonable response.

      Or even “I’d be very open to progressing to taking on more of [examples] and passing some of [other examples] to other staff members” – I wonder whether they are trying to asses whether you are looking to progress rather than hoping to increase your work load?

      If you are sure it is about workload, then I think a response that makes clear that you are already a full capacity so while you could take on additional tasks, it would mean that some of the things you currently do would take longer / get done less frequently / get done in less depth etc.
      It may be a genuine question that because they are not familiar with your job, they can’t easily asses whether your current workload is low, reasonable or high, and they are asking you to clarify that.

      1. Amber Rose*

        So I got a response, but then something happened which has happened before: I go to ask more about it, and find out someone else is already doing that task and is pretty invested in it. Management really doesn’t know anything about what anyone’s doing, I guess.

        Most of my tasks do not relate to each other, since I’m more or less the office dumpster: I get the trash jobs that nobody else wants to do. Which is fine, whatever. What bothers me is this implication that I’m not doing enough, or that I should be volunteering for more stuff. Like, what else do they want me to stick my nose in? I’m literally up in everyone’s business.

  71. Free Meerkats*

    I have a job hunting friend who got a contract employee offer (in IT) from a major aerospace manufacturer. When he got the contract, it had a clause that essentially said that they own the rights to anything you invent, ever, from this point forward. He changed that wording to something like “using proprietary information or processes from +Employer+” and is waiting to hear back if the offer still stands.

    I mean, Holy overreach, Batman!

    2. AMPG*

      Well, if he develops something while under contract to them that’s intended for their use, even if he doesn’t technically use proprietary information or processes to do it, it makes perfect sense that they would expect to own it.

      1. Natalie*

        I think the issue is “they own the rights to anything you invent, ever, from this point forward.“

          1. Natalie*

            Ah, I’m taking the revision to be adding on to the clause rather than overwriting it (i.e. they would retain rights to something invented after his employment there only if he uses their processes/information).

    3. a-no*

      I have signed pretty hard core non-competes multiple times included clauses like that and limits on how long you have to wait to work in the ‘industry’ etc etc and I have ignored them as often they aren’t legally enforceable. I got an employment lawyer to take a look at mine so I know for a fact mine weren’t enforceable but it’d be worth it to get someone with real law experience to take a boo at the contract he has. If terms are so out to lunch (like they own everything? what if he invents a Cat Shoe fashion line that is 110% unrelated to the job) often they are far to broad to be enforceable and are null.

  72. Finally a Fed*

    I posted a few weeks ago about a huge problem that popped up in my first week as a civil servant and how my SES had personally gotten involved. Well, things did not go the way we had hoped and now I am significantly limited in my ability to do my current role. Essentially, it turns out that (unbeknownst to us) my husband took a job six months ago that is considered to be a massive conflict of interest when he switched from government to industry. The worst part is that I tried to consult with the ethics office prior to him taking that job and they wouldn’t talk to me because I wasn’t a fed yet, even though myself and my management knew it would happen any day. My management has indicated that they can/will move me to a new role, but it will be hard to find one where this COI doesn’t impact my ability to carry out job duties. It’s a huge career limiter because my agency participates in a lot of community outreach that involves industry and I literally cannot participate in anything that his company so much as breathes on.

    So, now my husband and I are trying to figure out if he should go back to government (different agency than mine) or if I should go into industry to remove the COI permanently. He’s talked to his old manager and they’re definitely happy to bring him back on board, but the glacial pace of government hiring makes us worry about taking this route while I’m stagnating in my role. His company, on the other hand, on threat of him leaving, got my resume circulated to the relevant departments, scheduled a phone interview, opened a req and scheduled an in person interview (with travel) in less than two weeks. I’ve never worked in industry, I’ve always been in government, and I’m feeling very anxious about possibly making the switch. I’m not sure I’m going to like going from having the money to asking for the money. I’m especially worried because I’m pretty sure if I left my agency less than two months after waiting two years to get hired as a civil servant, I will burn that bridge forever and never be able to go back. So, even if I hate the industry job I could be stuck. Any thoughts or advice?

    1. J.B.*

      1. Go on the interview, if you haven’t already.
      2. Find out what you can (obv your husband knows some people) about hours in his company and in the industry broadly.
      3. If you are interested in taking the job at that point, talk to your current bosses and see what they think. Do they think you can reasonably still do work within the agency? If not, how would they feel about the situation generally, and how would you be entered into HR databases?

      Given the situation I think your bosses probably feel awful about the situation and would understand if you left. However, talk to them before deciding.

      1. Finally a Fed*

        Thanks for the suggestion on asking about how I’d be entered into the HR database. I’ve been wondering if I should wait it out to make it through the one year probationary period. And thanks also for the reminder to take it one step at a time. I keep falling into the trap that I need to fix things RIGHT NOW, but it’s probably ok to ride this out for awhile.

  73. JustaTech*

    I have a heartwarming story of comeuppance to share (third hand).
    My coworker’s husband has a terrible boss (let’s call him Bob). Bob has been in his job for 30 years. Bob is a jerk and a bully. And then two weeks ago Bob was doing reviews and said to one of his direct reports “You’ll never be a top performer because you’re just a mom.” Bob said this in front of several of his direct reports. The direct reports went to HR.
    Two days ago Bob was asked to retire (immediately) or he would be fired. He left.
    Goodbye Bob!

    5. Tardigrade*

      Man, I hate that it took something like that to get the dude gone, but hooray sweet juicy revenge!

    9. This Daydreamer*

      Sometimes, the best farewell parties happen after someone is gone. Cake, anyone?

  74. Not Today Satan*

    Has anyone ever asked for a reference from an employer– after getting an offer but before accepting? Ideally from a former employee? I definitely have Toxic Workplace PTSD (as well as actual, real life PTSD lol so I’m pretty gun shy) and it’s my worst fear to leave this job only to go some place worse. If I asked for a reference would people look at me askew? This would, of course, be in addition to asking questions about the culture and asking around my network.

    2. NaoNao*

      I actually have heard of this! It *may* come off oddly, but you could also do it in such a way like “Is there a chance I could meet with my team/peers before I make a decision?” or you could ask to shadow for a day/half a day to get a feeling for the job.
      I wouldn’t phrase it as “reference” but you could say something like “I’d love to get a variety of inputs on the culture here and what type of person thrives best. Could I perhaps take a few minutes of a staff members time in an informal way?”
      Also: Glassdoor.
      Reviews like “Management has their head up their a$$!” are to be taken with a grain of salt.
      Reviews like “In the last three years, the C level has created restrictive policies that have resulted in 50% turnover” (or any other specific, provable, concrete charges) are to be taken seriously.

  75. redjellybean*

    Would you go to an interview even if you don’t think you would take the job if offered? The fit aligns with your skills and you probably are a competitive candidate. Just waiting on other potential interviews and are afraid of using too many excuses to miss work.

    1. Michaela*

      Not if I were absolutely certain I’d turn down an offer. That said, I had a phone screen this week and am waiting on scheduling a Skype interview even though I’m really happy in my current job and this would be a pay cut and a major move. I’m willing to be convinced this position would be perfect (there’s some really good points to it), but they’re going to have to blow me away to convince me. I think that’s okay.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      If you are 90% sure you would not take the job, I would turn the interview down so that a candidate who WOULD take the job can take your interview spot.

      1. Marthooh*

        Interview spots aren’t nearly as limited a resource as actual job openings, so this probably shouldn’t be a consideration.

    3. Not Today Satan*

      If you think there’s a chance you’d become interested I’d do. I’ve turned down interviews for similar reasons and always regretted it.

    4. Jess*

      I’ve just accepted an offer for a job that I really didn’t think I’d take when I went to the first interview, so I’m biased towards going along to find out more about the position – in my case, a lot of info about the position and what they were looking for came out in the interview that wasn’t reflected in the job ad at all. However, opportunities in my area are few and far between which sounds pretty different from your situation if there’s other jobs you’re more excited about, and you’re a competitive candidate for those too.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      I’m a little on the fence about doing the second interview with a company next week but I think I’m going to do it. It’s on the phone so not a big investment, but it was confirmed in the initial call that the location is open plan and the commute is 30-45 of stop-go highway and city street driving, or longer on public transport, with no regular WFH option (except in rare instances). I’m also not sure about the culture fit for me. But, the work might be really interesting with the opportunity to learn some new skills I want so I could definitely be persuaded. I also won’t be crushed if that’s where it ends, either.

  76. Don't Block the Door*

    Is anyone here currently working in a phased retirement situation? I’m seriously considering it and my employer seems to be favorable. What do you like/dislike about the concept? What do you wish you had known before starting? Any real disadvantages to report?

    1. Bagpuss*

      I haven’t done it myself but having observed a couple of people going own that route, I think one potential pitfall is the same as going part time for any other reason – managing your time and workload to make sure that you are not trying to do the same amount of work in less time and for lower pay!

      I think you are also likely to be seen by some as having ‘one foot out of the door’, so you may find that you are not given as much opportunity to be involved in anything which involves planning or training, and may find that you are less likely to be offered more interesting / challenging tasks, if your boss feels that giving those to other employees to keep them interested and invested is more important.

  77. Kat_Map*

    Happy Friday! I’m mostly seeking to vent —

    My manager and I both work remotely out of our own homes. Email has typically been our primary mode of communication, and she’d usually reply to me within 2 days or so. However, in these past 3 weeks, she’s barely been replying to my emails. On Thursday of last week she replied to all my emails in the span of one hours and I haven’t heard anything from her since, except from an email she cc’d me on.

    I’ve recently had additional tasks added to my work-load, which is fine, but all my projects are stagnating while I wait for her input and feedback. Worse, I have an outside organization waiting for me to get back to them, but I am waiting on a document from her before I can reply. They’ve been waiting nearly 2 weeks.

    Since we work our own schedules phone calls, unless planned for, aren’t always fruitful since it’s hard to know if she’s actually working at certain times.

    I probably *am* overreacting. I’m just finding this exhausting.

    1. WellRed*

      This whole situation is ridiculous. You are not overreacting. If I was your manager’s manager, I’d probably rescind work from home at this point since work isn’t getting done. My boss is quite reachable on her work from home day: I know her hours (those shouldn’t be a guessing game) and emails are answered as efficiently as If I’d hollered a question out to her.

      1. Kat_Map*

        I appreciate reading this. I guess I’ve just accepted otherwise bad practices as just a side-effect of our unconventional work ‘environment’. The reality check that this isn’t normal is good to hear.

  78. The Lord of Spoons and Spills*

    After over 4 months of applying to jobs in New York City (I live in another state) I finally received a request for an interview! It would be a step up in responsibility but the pay range isn’t listed. This appears to be a laid back environment and the interviewer is roughly the same age as me (under 30). After I ask questions at the end about the work/culture/organization should I ask what the pay range is? I feel the question would make more sense for a company that appears to have a less formal environment. Ideally the interviewer will bring it up in the interview, we’ll see! What do readers think?

    1. ANon.*

      Totally fine to ask what the expected salary for the position will be! It’s also possible that they’ll ask you what your expected salary range is. Note, they cannot legally ask you any questions about your salary history.

    2. baconeggandcheeseplease*

      Is this is an in person interview? Generally speaking, most NYC recruiters (internal or external) discuss this during the phone screen, so you should be fine there. Regardless, definitely ask, because you need to know if it’s worth moving for! Depending on where you live now, it might seem like a huge increase but remember that the cost of living is much higher — so if they ask you for *your* salary range, do some market research first so you don’t low ball yourself!

  79. Editrix*

    (I guess my thing is going to be asking how you interpret certain terms.)

    Going off the podcast question from earlier this week: What does a flexible workplace mean to you? I’ve always thought of it as “here’s how things work in this office, we’re open to adjustments, let’s discuss”. Judging by the comments on that letter, many take flexible workplace to mean “I get to set my own hours”.

    Is this coming from a difference in work experiences? I imagine the latter interpretation works in fields where your work is nearly independent from your co-workers. So there’s less need for coordinating schedules and planning ahead. I’ve always worked in fields which, while not exactly collaborative, are pretty inter-dependent. So being able to be in touch is extremely important and being able to plan around physical absences is notexactly necessary, but definitely makes things run smoother.

    1. Murphy*

      I think both of those might qualify as “flexible” though obviously not to the same degree.

      The last time I had an office job before my current one, they were decidedly not flexible. We had particular come and go times that were weird, and that required an hour lunch to make them happen. In my current workplace I asked about hours and was told that they didn’t really care. My observation is that people work generally normal hours, but it’s ok if Jane usually does 7-4 and Fergus does 9-6. I think if I wanted to work 12-8 on a regular basis that might be a problem, but generally we can choose our own times, and can adjust them for appointments. We’re less flexible on working from home, but I still consider us “flexible”, at least for my needs. Basically no one does it regularly, but if you have a reason (sick kid, sick you, snow day, plumbing emergency) it’s fine. (This may vary from manager to manger though, but mine doesn’t care at all.)

      1. Ambpersand*

        Your current workplace seems the same as mine- we all decide our preferred hours, as long as they are somewhat similar. WFH is okay as long as it’s for a legitimate reason at the last minute or cleared ahead of time, and everything can be adjusted for appointments or things that come up. Luckily for me my manager is really relaxed about it- I’m taking a Friday off in a few weeks for a weekend trip and mentioned that I was considering taking the following Monday off too, but it was just going to depend when we got home Sunday night. Obviously if we got home at 7 PM I could come in the next day, but if it would be closer to midnight/1 AM, that would be more of a problem. She just shrugged and said “If you get home late, just text me and let me know that you wont be in. No worries!”

    2. Lil Fidget*

      When my boss says “flextime” he means, “if you clear it with me, I may approve an eight hour in-office-schedule that varies slightly from the norm,” like – “you can come in at eight and leave at four if you need to pick up your kids from daycare.” I would like it to mean, you can set your own hours from home / in office and work less than 40 hours some weeks if you’re working more than 40 hours other weeks.

    3. Betsy*

      I’m in academia and in my current role, as long as I come in and teach my classes and grade all the papers, and attend meetings, respond to emails, etc. I can work whenever I want. However, it’s not a very inter-dependent job, apart from subjects that are co-taught.

    4. Anon for This*

      To me flexibility falls into two buckets for me, formal and informal. Formal flexibility is a workplace where there are written policies that have core business hours (say 10 a.m. to 3 p.m.), but allows employees to determine their own schedule about when they come in and leave each day.

      Informal flexibility is what I think more people have where you won’t be considered tardy if you arrive at 8:15 a.m. rather than 8:00 a.m., and if you need to leave early for a doctor’s appointment you can.

      I also think flexibility is often dependent on how senior you are in the organization. The more senior you are, the more likely you can have more flexibility. The CEO of our organization has a lot more flexibility than I do.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      I would say it’s both regional and field-dependent. To me it means allowing regular WFH schedules and flex time options and not mandating start/stop times, and the focus is on getting work done, not micromanaging schedules and requiring butts in seats.

      However, I talked to a company’s recruiter this week and she mentioned as a selling point the flexible nature of their company, which heavily promotes its family-friendly work-life balance environment. But they don’t approve regular WFH days, although you can take time off if you have a doctor’s appt or emergency or something. Maybe they allow flexibility on start/stop times, I didn’t think to ask because I was honestly a little floored by the no-WFH philosophy. In this area, in that industry, it struck me as pretty unusual. The work is heavily computer dependent, there are teams collaborating across the country, and a lot of companies use skype/im/slack to communicate regularly anyway, so I’m not sure why all the face time is needed. They do provide a lot of office perks to offset that, I suppose.

      However, if I got that job, my work-life balance would go down compared to my last job (which was far more formal but allowed flex time and regular WFH by approved exception), so I personally wouldn’t call them flexible.

    6. Al Lo*

      My workplace was just putting our policy on this into words this week!

      About 1/2 of what I do is tied to a schedule of some sort — shows, events, meetings, etc. The other half, for the senior staff in my office, in particular, is very “Results Oriented Work Environment” as a default stance. I can do my work where, when, how I want to — whatever schedule or location is most effective, as long as it’s being done in a high-quality and timely manner. In reality, this usually means my schedule is fairly consistent, but I also often, for instance, wake up on a Friday morning and just decide not to go into the office.

      To me, that’s flexibility — including the fact that I can make the decision in the morning and not necessarily have to plan in advance, if my meeting/show/etc schedule allows. I have a co-worker who likes to come in at 6 AM some days. I have days where I don’t come in until 2 PM. Both are fine.

  80. Someone else*

    I’m really miserable at work lately and I’m trying to figure out how to get unmiserable.The problem is I’m not sure what’s causing it or how to make it better. It seems to me the possibilities are:
    1) The things bugging me are normal in most workplaces, and I might need to suck it up and accept that because I’m not independently wealthy and need to work.
    2) The things are normal in my industry, but not all, so I ought to be in a different business.
    3) The things are normal in my role, but not all, so I should be looking for a different job, but not necessarily in a whole different industry.
    4) The things are normal in my company, but in another with a different culture, the same type of role might be more fulfilling.

    But I don’t know how to figure out which it is. I feel stuck. I don’t know if I’m venting or asking for advice (and I don’t want to provide details because it’s too identifying), but I find myself thinking “I just don’t want to do this” nearly every day, and that’s not good or long term sustainable. I keep telling myself I put up with it because I’m well compensated and enjoy having health insurance, but at a certain point even though logically those things should win,I’m getting pretty close to fed up.

    1. Lissee*

      I’m in the same position right now and was going to post something similar. (Although my misery is related to my job duties changing.) much sympathy!

      1. Kerr*

        Same. Much sympathy! I know some things are probably me, and there’s a lot to like about my current job. And yet, I’ve felt for months like I’m edging towards no longer giving a damn. Which stinks, because I have a great opportunity in my lap and I need to be wowing management.

        I’m struggling with balancing conflicting job duties and other factors, and I’m wondering if things are fixable, or if I’ve just hit BEC stage regardless.

    2. Lil Fidget*

      Yes, me too. It sounds like you’re describing burnout. I’ve heard a very long vacation (at least two weeks) can help re-set, but ultimately you probably need to switch jobs to escape this. Mix it up. I’ve also had good luck with getting out of the office during work hours as much as possible – I’m suddenly up for every off-site meeting and site visit – and travelling on weekends so I don’t feel so stuck. It can also be a manifestation of depression, if you feel this way in all aspects of your life – just flagging that for you because it was a factor for me.

      I also set a date for quittin’ on my calendar, six months from today – so I can see progress and feel less trapped, and to incentivize myself to save up and job search.

      1. WonderingHowIGotHere*

        One connected piece of advice I was given once was to take a vacation (ten days – for some reason studies show any longer than that doesn’t have any additional benefit, and you might want to keep some vacation days back for interviews if b) is your reality!) and :
        a) if, when you got back to work you felt refreshed and energised, then book your next vacation because all that you needed was a break.
        b) if, on the other hand, getting back from your vacation just left you more miserable, you’ve truly burnt out and a career change may be in order.

      2. Someone else*

        I wondered if I were burnt out but I took a week long vacation last year, which I realize is shorter than you suggested, but when I came back I felt really fresh and great. For two days. So I don’t think it’s burnout, or if it is it might mean I’m just burnt out on this job overall. Part of my fear is even if I go somewhere else what it’s the same, or worse. At my previous gig (many years ago) I knew I was definitely burnt out, and I knew they didn’t appreciate me and were badly managed. So it was easy to know I should get out of there. Now I’m feeling similarly unenthused here, but what’s wrong about it is less clear. It’s almost like…if I like working with my coworkers, I like my work.If my coworkers don’t know what they’re doing or don’t get their shit done or communicate poorly or are inefficient, which affects my work, then I don’t. But turnover/promotions being what they are, I never seem to find myself working with a great team for too long. So what worked well when I started, doesn’t now. But I can’t really go around quitting every time I find my coworkers irritating, but that’s what keeps happening. I know a bad apple can drive a good employee away, but it’s happening enough that I sort of feel like the problem might just be me.

        1. JS*

          I was you six months ago. It felt like burnout, I took a vacation, came back and was just as miserable a week later. Small company, high turnover, incompetent owner, stupid business decisions–it just added up to something I couldn’t bear with anymore. It took a long time to find another job, but eventually I quit and took a position in a very different industry (doing vaguely similar stuff).

          I still don’t know if I made the right decision. The industry I came from and the industry I’m in now are very very different culturally, so I feel like maybe it’s me (because this new job is really starting to exasperate me). And that makes me feel guilty, inadequate, unreliable, etc….

          Whatever it is for you, it’s not working. Keep an eye out for something new. You don’t know what the problem is until you start trying some solutions. Since you already have a job, you can be picky about your next job. Don’t just take any job–wait for something you’re genuinely excited about. And then take a chance!

          1. Paper Towels*

            I hope this works out for both of you! I am in the exact same place – currently job searching. I think it’s important both of you flagged knowing a new job isn’t always a fix. I learned that the hard way – left a place where I was not getting any interesting projects to a start up where the job and culture were nothing like what was discussed in interviews.
            In my post-vacation-still-underwater-at-work phase, I am trying to find that one thing I can do outside work to restore myself as much as possible so I can wake up and face the next few days/weeks/months until the right opportunity materializes. I thought old hobbies like reading or running would help but it hasn’t… yet. I am hoping an upcoming volunteer opportunity will help! We need that ongoing restorative something to help us make it through the current job!

    3. Tardigrade*

      I agree with Lil Fidget about taking a vacation. After that, maybe a decent place to start is joining some professional groups if you aren’t already part of one, and talking to other people in your role/industry to get a feel for what it’s like out there for the rest of them.

    4. Betsy*

      I think it can be impossible to tell! I have recently resigned, but I tortured myself wondering:

      Is this department normal?
      Maybe things are just done differently in this country?
      Is the way this department is managed functional?

      In the end, I’ll never 100% know how dysfunctional the department is compared to other departments. I’ll probably never even be able to tell if it’s just me being a little sensitive so reacting to a disorganised environment more than other people might. I can’t even tell how much my co-workers like the job and how much they’re just being polite or pragmatic, or are staying because they don’t have other options.

      I think it’s best to make a choice based on how you feel about the job and whether you want to stay there (unless you’re someone who changes jobs very often). It doesn’t sound like you want to stay, from what you’ve written above.

    5. zora*

      I think the only way to figure out the answers to your questions is to ask some people!! This is a big part of what mentoring is about. Less how to do specific job tasks, but the bigger picture context about jobs, industries, companies, and how to navigate them.

      Do you have any coworkers that are slightly above you in the hierarchy but that are supportive and friendly to younger staff? Take them out to coffee and ask questions about their other jobs inside and outside of the industry and what they think about your industry. Or if that won’t work in your company’s culture, are there former employees who have left?
      This is another benefit of networking in your industry, having people in other companies you can have these mentoring type conversations with.

    6. Elizabeth H.*

      I have literally all of those same issues and for me I think it’s actually ALL OF THE ABOVE, one through four, and that might be the case for you too. I am trying to figure out what to do next. There are a bunch of options I can think of but I can’t figure out which. I am highly competent and effective at my job, have a lot of specialized knowledge and some technical skills, and am generally a high performer but by now I am barely capable of motivating myself to do anything work related and I need to make some kind of change for my own sake but also for the job’s sake.

      1. Someone else*

        YES. I think part of what I’m getting hung up on is I’m really good at what I do. Usually being really good at something sort of inherently makes it fun? At least for me, I like being great at stuff. But at this point, even though I’m really good at this, I just don’t enjoy it any more. That’s both a little bit foreign to me and also a little hard to accept, personally. I don’t know exactly why but I’m having cognitive dissonance about it. I haven’t hit the lack of motivation quite yet, but I’m sure if I stay here much longer I’ll probably land there.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Familiarity breeds contempt.

          I have a friend who had a Hobby. He could make money at this hobby, steady money. His observation was that once a Hobby becomes a Job the romance dies. No, just because you are good at it does not mean it is fun. It only means you will remain employed unless you do something off the wall.

          From my own experience the longer I stay at a job the harder it is for me to make the job feel fresh or interesting. I try to be familiar with every aspect of my work, this takes a huge effort and once I get there I am bored. This is when I developed a theory that the longer we stay at jobs the harder it is to stay engaged/connected. It gets to be routine then robotic.

          With your initial post I thought “here is one tired person” because of all the overthinking going on. With this post I am now leaning toward “here is a bored person”.

          Figure out what your next gig is before your your motivation dies and depression and health issues set in. This is called valuing your own self worth. You feel that you have done all you can do here, start looking around. What’s next? You probably have the ability to be successful at quite a few other things. Make a list of where you stand a good chance of success.

  81. AMPG*

    I’m interested in some feedback about whether my run-ins with a coworker are “formal complaint”-level or not. Twice now, this coworker has come into my private office (the door was open) while I was focusing on work to make some comment about how I should be smiling. The first time, he told me, “You’re staring at that computer so much it must be your friend, and you should smile at your friend.” The second time he said, “I’m going to put a mirror on that computer of yours, so when you look at it you’ll see something nice that will make you smile.” I made it clear with this second encounter that he was out of line, so I’m hoping he leaves me alone, but I said to myself that I would file a complaint if he did it again. But of course, now I’m second-guessing myself and wondering if I’m overreacting, so I’m interested in outside opinions.

    For context, I’m a middle-aged woman and he’s an older man. We don’t work together in any capacity, and I didn’t even know his name until I sought it out after these conversations, but I’m technically senior to him. Both conversations happened when he stopped at my door, with no prior context.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      That is wildly inappropriate. Don’t ever tell me to smile. I can’t even formulate a response after that.

    2. Snark*

      OH FUUUUUUUCK YES THEY ARE HOLY CRAP

      Sorry, couldn’t restrain the caps there. Holy friggin’ mackerel, my friend, he has lit himself on fire and catapulted himself across the formal complaint line with a trebuchet. You are SO entitled to complain about him.

      1. Snark*

        I posted this above, but it’s relevant here now:

        I just consulted my wife on this matter, because she has strong facial features and gets lots of comments along these lines. Her usual approach is to make it clear how ridiculous they’re being. Her suggestions:

        “You’re allowed to smile once in a while, you know!”

        “Is there a reason why I need to be doing so right this moment?”

        “Smile, it’s not so bad?”

        “Can I ask why you’re so invested in what facial expression I’m using right now?”

        Or, she says, you could just reply “The only thing that makes me smile is the wailing of my enemies being driven before me as I salt their land and pillage their hovels.” Real deadpan.

        1. AMPG*

          The second time it happened, the conversation went like this:

          “I’m going to put a mirror on that computer of yours, so when you look at it you’ll see something nice that will make you smile.”
          “I am allowed to do my work without smiling.”
          “Well, I just meant that -”
          “I AM ALLOWED TO DO MY WORK WITHOUT SMILING. [glare] You have a good day.”

      2. AMPG*

        I appreciate your outrage on my behalf. I was really pissed when it happened. Ironically, the thing that made me second-guess myself was that I got involved with escalating a more serious harassment complaint (involving two other coworkers) and that made me think, well, maybe my thing isn’t that bad.

        1. JokersandRogues*

          Except, maybe that other thing started out smaller or the general culture allows small things to go on which make it easier for someone to justify the big bad thing in their mind. So, don’t think that micro-aggression (which I believe that is) is too small or not that bad. Taking care of these things at this point is better than later.

          The smile thing is rage-inducing by the way.

          1. AMPG*

            This is a good point, and I’ve actually talked to the CEO (I report to him) about my more general impression that the whole staff could use some sensitivity training. We’re a social-service non-profit, and I think it’s easy to make the assumption that, since we’re dealing with clients from marginalized demographics all the time, that we must all have an innate understanding of how not to be offensive, but that’s really not true.

        2. Emi.*

          You’re allowed to object to things that are not The Worst Thing, though! It’s not as bad as the other thing, but it is as bad as the threshold for making a complaint, so go for it!

          1. Teapot librarian*

            Yeah, this is totally sexual harassment and even though it isn’t as bad as, say, sexual assault, it’s still harassment and still actionable.

    3. fposte*

      I think you’re right on target. You firmly told him to knock it off, and if he does it again it’s absolutely appropriate to make a higher-level complaint about it. That is deeply inappropriate and potentially discriminatory, so most companies would be pretty unhappy with him.

    4. CTT*

      Oh that’s weird, you’re not overreacting. But since you did tell him you thought he was out of line that second time, I think you’re right to wait to see if he does it again.

    5. Someone else*

      If he does it again I’d be direct with him. I know you said you put the kibosh down, but if your angle was more about what he was saying in the moment, my next one might focus more on the fact that just because your door is open doesn’t mean it is appropriate for him to enter, and interrupt your work for non-work reasons.Commenting on your face is inappropriate, and not a work reason,and this is his last warning about being disruptive in this manner.

      I mean, on the one hand, “smile” is such a classic mysoginist bullshit thing to say, but if he managed to get this far and not know that, I’m guessing it may not be worth the effort to educate him. But if you’re above him, you absolutely have the right to basically say “yo I didn’t even know your name until you decided to start interrupting me, you have no work reasons to come in here, leave my office now and don’t come back unless invited”. Not in those words of course, but he’s way out of line in about three different ways, and it sounds like what you really want it for him to not come back, so I’d focus on that.

      1. Jules the Third*

        I think two sentences of ‘Telling women to smile is misogynistic because it implies that women should perform an emotion for you, which is really entitled and demeaning. Stop doing that.’ might be helpful, in that it addresses the root cause of the behavior, and gives a general directive, not just a specific one that can be honestly misunderstood. Telling him to not come in your door except for work only addresses half the problem – he could still say ‘Smile’ if he meets you in the hall. I would do this direct addressing of the root cause before I complained higher up. And if you complain, it should definitely be focused on the ‘he interrupts my work to try and get me to perform for him – it’s weird and harrass-y’ not ‘he asked me to smile’. Too many people *don’t* get how harrass-y it is, so make sure you sneak in the education for the higher-ups.

        ‘I’m allowed to work without smiling’ is pretty awesome, tho. Great response.

    7. k.k*

      Uhg…he’s being sexist and weird and you’re not overreacting. If he continues it would be very appropriate to go to HR. And for what it’s worth, even if you hadn’t already asked him to stop you wouldn’t be out of line going to HR. But since you have, that just makes it extra bad if he continues.

    8. Sunshine Brite*

      Ewww, that makes me rage a bit on your behalf. I would say it is complaint worthy since you’ve directly requested this sexist behavior stop. Plus, he’s lowering your overall productivity with non-work related distractions. This is particularly egregious since you and he have no rapport or reason he would think this would be okay.

    9. Lil Fidget*

      I would absolutely say something *to him* about it (“you know, that kind of comment is really gendered, have you ever noticed that people don’t say things like that to men? It’s almost like we feel like we can police women’s faces and bodies” – haha okay I’d only say that if he wasn’t senior to me!) but I wouldn’t elevate something so minor to anyone else unless he doubled down after repeated warnings. It’s just – not personal, not threatening, not worth rising to the senior level at this point IMO.

      1. AMPG*

        I’ve never had a good experience telling a man with “good intentions” that he’s being sexist, unfortunately. Plus I don’t feel it’s my job to educate him about this stuff.

        1. Natalie*

          Yeah, with someone you don’t have a pretty strong relationship with, it can be much easier to go with “I don’t care for it, so knock it off.” And that’s fine, the main point is to get him to stop.

    10. Kyubey*

      At my last job, I had something similar where an older male coworker started calling me “Smiley” as a nickname. I didn’t say anything at the time because I thought it would come off as rude or unfriendly but sometimes I wish I had. I couldn’t figure out why it bothered me other than it was annoying.

    11. clow*

      nope, nope nope, I think you would be perfectly justified in a formal complaint. He is commenting on your appearance over and over, sexist and unacceptable. What a complete ass.

    12. Elizabeth West*

      You made it clear that you want him to stop, i.e. he’s out of line. If he does it again, you are justified in complaining. Besides being sexist, he’s annoying–he’s interrupting your work to make these stupid comments. Rawr. >:(

    13. AnotherJill*

      I was born with resting bitch face and have periodically been told to “smile!”, usually by men. My standard response is to stare at them and say nothing. Most people really hate it when you just don’t react to their idiocy.

      1. Windchime*

        My response is a dead-eyed stare and then, “Say something funny.” I hate the expectation that women are supposed to walk around with a grin on our face all day just to satisfy men who might happen to look at us. What, I’m not being decorative enough for you? Kiss my ass. How’s that for decoration?

    14. Not So NewReader*

      If he comes in again with a remark, promise yourself right now, that you will get up and head to HR.

      “I have asked you to stop saying these types of comments. I am now going to HR to file a formal complaint. There is no doubt in my mind that you would not speak to a man this way. I have asked you to stop your sexist remarks and now HR will explain it to you.”

  82. Can't Sit Still*

    I’m in charge of planning off-sites for my department, including the individual teams, and for the whole department. My problem is attendance. When I first started, my boss told me to expect about 50% – 60% turnout, which is about right in my experience. However, I’m getting 85% – 100%(!) turnout. The problem is that with that many people, we can’t do the things they used to do because the group’s too large. Not only that, the budget remains the same. So where my predecessor could fudge: $100/staff member, but only 50% of the group shows up, a $150 – $200/person expenditure would be fine. But I have a not-to-exceed budget, so I have a larger group and less money overall.

    The issue is that people don’t always know until the last minute if they will be able to attend, so, for example, I planned an event with 20 people confirmed and 30 people showed up. Which was fine and everyone had a good time, but the staff at the off-site were totally overwhelmed, and I would have picked another location/event if I had known we’d have that many people. We can’t exactly tell people they can’t attend a teambuilding event if they don’t RSVP first.

    I’ve thought about splitting up events, and having people choose which one they want to attend, but that kind of defeats the purpose of team building. I’m kind of at a loss. Having too large of a turnout in a teambuilding event or off-site is not something I’ve ever had happen before!

    1. AMPG*

      Wait, why can’t you tell people they have to RSVP for the event or they can’t come? That’s an important planning and budgeting tool they’re depriving you of, and it’s totally reasonable to expect them to commit. If the problem is that the nature of their work means they may have urgent issues come up at the last minute, then maybe try to make every other event one that can accommodate a lot of flexibility in the turnout. If that won’t work, you might have to permanent revise your turnout expectations, regardless of where the RSVPs are.

      Also, this probably a reflection of your ability to plan good events, since you’re totally right that you never get such a high turnout for this type of thing. So be proud of that!

    2. SophieChotek*

      I agree with AMPG – RSVP has to be mandatory (both for you and for the facilities), or you need to get a bigger budget and get those who hold the purse-strings excited about higher-than-expected team-building/off-site activities that necessitates a bigger budget…

    3. Anony*

      I agree that a strict RSVP date could help. Unless you are working in a field where people are on call, they should be able to sort out their schedules or just say no. The alternative is to switch to just assuming everyone will be there, which given the turnout you are seeing seems like it might be warranted.

  83. Teapot librarian*

    Good news this week! My best employee is receiving a formal offer today for a different job in my office! He is going to have to serve a probationary period according to HR because the job is in a completely different category than his current job, but I hope that doesn’t freak him out and make him decide he doesn’t want the promotion after all.

    1. WellRed*

      IF the manager for the other job doesn’t have a problem with hiring him for the new job, not sure why HR does?

      1. Teapot librarian*

        I’m the manager for both jobs, and it’s just bureaucratic rules of government hiring.

  84. shep*

    How do I kindly and tactfully ask to take over a duty from someone else?

    I work at an org wherein I’m not actually a member of the industry (I have a terminal degree in a completely unrelated field), but I do a lot of content development for online presentations. I usually just act as support during these presentations for my supervisor (an industry professional), but lately she’s become incredibly busy, and doesn’t always have time to do these programs. She’s enlisted one of my coworkers, who is also an industry professional, for help when she can’t always present.

    In the past when we were in a pinch, but before she’d gotten quite so busy, I’d filled in for her, and while it was nerve-wracking at first, I got very comfortable presenting. I don’t mind having my coworker present, but I realized she gets VERY nervous very easily. She does a lot of stumbling over her words, her presentation is very dry, I can often hear her shuffling notes, etc., and the whole product just feels very rough at the end. I totally commiserate and have done a few joint presentations with her, because I know it takes time to get used to the process. That said, it also creates some tech issues I have to run around fixing, while I should be doing beginning-of-presentation things like testing sound and giving general info to people as they arrive. She is literally on the other side of the office, so anytime she has an issue, I have to run over to the other side to fix it and run back to my office. She also relies heavily on her notes, but the problem is that the program changes (albeit slightly) each time we do it, and I can’t always transfer her notes myself; it’s extremely time-consuming to match up old and new versions of the program and copy-paste slides, and I don’t think she’ll do it herself even if she has the best of intentions to do so. She’s also very busy, and has a lot to manage.

    At this point, I’d really like to do these programs myself, as I think it would be easier on multiple fronts, but I’m not sure how to broach the subject without (1) seemingly throwing my coworker under the bus by pointing out these various issues (which is absolutely NOT my intention), but (2) still impressing on my supervisor how much more smoothly things would go if I could do them myself.

    What do you all think? Should I bother?

    1. Tardigrade*

      Assuming there isn’t some reason your coworker has to be tasked with this, I think you could ask your coworker first if she would prefer that you do the programs because you’ve come to enjoy them and etc. Don’t make it about her faults, but about your preferences and skill set. Then approach your supervisor and do the same thing – focus on how you enjoy this work and what you could do to improve it. You can absolutely point out issues, especially technical ones, without blaming your coworker. :)

    2. Not That Jane*

      Would it be possible for you to talk to your coworker first? Ask her how she feels about you presenting instead, before going to your supervisor about it? If I were the coworker, I’d prefer that approach as it would give me an out of something I probably don’t enjoy, without making me look bad.

      1. shep*

        I have thought of doing this! I may just have to buck up and do it…But from what I know of her, she can be really sensitive and prone to moodiness. I don’t want to potentially hurt her feelings, and that’s mainly what’s stopping me. It would all be for naught, too, if I were to follow up with my supervisor and her still want said coworker to present. To dovetail from that per Tardigrade’s comment, I think she’s been asked to help present because she’s very knowledgeable about the presentation subjects and could conceivably answer more complex questions that I wouldn’t necessarily be able to. That said, we rarely use the presentation as a platform to answer questions of that ilk, so it’s kind of a moot point.

    3. Anony*

      Why not tell your boss that you enjoyed giving the presentation and are disappointed that she took that away from you. Then you are not addressing your coworkers presentation issues at all.

    4. KnottyFerret*

      As a Nervous Presenter myself, I’d be grateful if someone else volunteered to take it over.
      Can you just ask if it makes sense to have you do them in the future, since she’s busy and you have it down smooth? I don’t think you really need to detail reasons unless the boss asks.

      1. Neosmom*

        I ran into something similar myself. I noticed a daily report in an Excel workbook that our executives need by 9 a.m. was being completed later and later (next day, even). Since I had bandwidth and enjoy Excel work, I asked my boss about it. He then checked with the person who prepares the report. She was so happy to have it taken off her hands.

        And I was concerned she was highly invested in this daily task since it is so visible to the execs. But I’m glad I went through channels to take the task on.

  86. FFS*

    Not looking for advise (although it’s welcome), just needing to grouse.
    I wrote several weeks back about some interactions with a toxic director and the massive staff turnovers we were having. Fun turn of events since my last post where I got a promotion and my team got raises: Apparently one of the departing staff lodged a legitimate and damning gender discrimination complaint against this director on her way out. There was an HR investigation, I was interviewed – it was a big deal but a small team so there was no way anyone involved would NOT know that I spoke to HR. I spoke with HR about my concerns about retaliation. The week the investigation was closed (and I would guess in his favor), the director rescinded my promotion because he didn’t “want me to focus on that right now”. Hmm. But he really *wants* to nominate me for partner this year, and here’s a list of 100 impossible things to accomplish in 6 months before he can even consider it.
    I did not make an immediate complaint to HR – because really, there’s no “proof” it’s retaliation, but damn that timing is oh-so-very coincidental. I took some time to stew/think on it, and I’m done being kicked in the nuts by this guy. Officially on the market for a new professional home. Which makes me sad – I’ve been with this company for 10 years, I relocated across the country for this position, my company does so many things really well, I truly like the people I work with, and I love the projects I am working on. But I just can’t work for someone I can’t trust and don’t respect.
    I’m not surprised this is where it all ended up, just disappointed.

    1. SophieChotek*

      Ugh, I am sorry. And you’re not even the one who made the complaint. (If I read this correctly). Not that retaliation should ever happen (but often it seems like I hear about it more about the person/persons who brought up an issue)…but I’m frustrated for you reading about it.

      1. FFS*

        Thanks – I am actually good friends with the ex-employee who made the complaint. She was extremely upset when she found out that I was being “punished” for her complaint. She didn’t do anything wrong, and I have zero ill feelings about her actions here. In fact, I think she was very brave.
        From what little I know about the details, I can’t believe she’s not suing.

    2. Liane*

      I’m not a lawyer or HR, but would report it, personally. If he was ready to give you the promotion without 100 impossible things *before* he got investigated but not *after*, “this might be retaliation, I should take it up with HR so they can do their job and sort it out” is a reasonable decision. Also, in case you’re right that the investigation went in Director’s favor, don’t let anyone tell you that proves/means it wasn’t retaliation, because Alison has told us many times that isn’t how it works in the US.

      1. FFS*

        I honestly do believe it was retaliation. He surprised/cornered me with the first promotion and made a big announcement to the staff about it but didn’t put anything in writing, then rescinded the promotion, dangling this promise of an even bigger promotion if I jump through all these hoops (some of which are entirely out of my control and cannot be accomplished in the 6-month time frame – like speaking at conferences).

        Your advice to go to HR is entirely reasonable, and maybe that’s exactly what I should have done. Unfortunately, it’s not a fight I am going to win, so when I make that complaint, I need to be already on my way out the door. Apparently the ex-employee who made the initial complaint felt the same way – she didn’t want to deal with the retaliation and opted to leave without another role lined up.

        1. The New Wanderer*

          I also think you should take it to HR, either now or as your exit interview:
          “HR, remember when I said I was concerned about retaliation for providing details on that complaint against my boss? My boss had given me a promotion before the HR meeting happened and immediately after the complaint was dismissed, he took away my promotion and said it would only happen under impossible conditions X, Y, and Z. Can you explain to me how that does not have the appearance of retaliation?”

          Best of luck getting out of there soon! I really hope others on your team follow the leads of the ones getting out, sounds like a toxic environment.

          1. FFS*

            The “appearance of retaliation” is a good way to phrase this. Thank you for that wording.

            It’s one (extremely) bad apple in an otherwise above-average/almost-great company. That’s why I’ve struggled so much about leaving. Unfortunately that bad apple sits at the very top of my division. He has his core group of enablers, true; they are not actively bad people – just not the type to fight for causes that don’t impact them. [Perfect hypothetical example: the guy who doesn’t believe racism is an issue in the workplace because he is not racist himself and would never treat someone differently because of race.]

            I’m very fortunate that my skills/role are in very high demand, and I’ll come out of this on top. I just wanted this role to be my professional home for quite a long time to come. There’s so much opportunity here. My career is such a big part of my life, and it just sucks that I can’t get this one problem to reconcile :(

  87. Student Loans Newbie*

    I don’t know this belongs on this tread or the weekend thread, but I have some questions about student loans. I was very lucky to have a scholarship during my undergrad and with the help of my parents, I do not have any student debt. After much thought, I realized that I wanted to attend med school and before doing so need to complete a post-bac program. These programs do not offer scholarship assistance at all. I will not be able to work for one year, not even part-time and although my parents are willing to help with some living expenses, I do not have the money to cover the program beyond getting loans. Since I never had to go through this process, I am a little overwhelmed for what my next steps should be. What pitfalls do I need to look out for? Any resources? I did speak to the school’s financial assistance dept and they were completely useless beyond directing me to a website.

    1. Ambpersand*

      Don’t get a private loan. My husband did that his first year at a university because he didn’t know better, and it’s the WORST loan we have. The interest rate keeps going up, it keeps getting sold every other year to different companies, and he pays more in interest than anything else. A $5,000 loan is going to end up costing us about $15,000 all said and done. The school should have a financial aid officer that would help you apply for the right one.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      I work in financial aid. DO NOT TAKE OUT PRIVATE LOANS. They will only hurt you. They are one of the biggest factors contributing to debt held by Americans today.

      You should apply to scholarships as much as you can. The federal student loans are reasonable and manageable. Why won’t you be able to work part-time?

      1. Student Loans Newbie*

        I should look into scholarships but there ain’t that many for post-bac programs. The school I accepted has a set rate for the program; however, I will be taking all the science classes needed to apply for med school in one year and will not have the time for a job, not if I want to succeed in the program. I did look at another school that would have allowed me to attend as a part-time student, but it would have cost double the price of this program. I am looking at federal loans but the school is located in a pricy city and living expenses will be an issue. I guess I will have to take out private loans (and I really trying not to) so I trying to educate myself as much as possible.

        1. Ambpersand*

          Does the program have a work/study option? There are a few around here that will either pay you a stipend for TA and general office work while you’re in your program, or discount the tuition. And (from what I’ve seen) it’s usually only 10-15 hours per week.

    3. SophieChotek*

      I agree regarding private loans.

      Is there any way you could do this post-bac over two years and not have to take out student loans (or as many)?

      Could you work for a year before starting and then not have to take out loans?

      I am dying under the weight of my student loans; I wanted to get done as fast I could. If I had to do it over again, I think I would have taken longer and worked more, but that’s just me.

      The actual process of applying for the loans is pretty straight-forward; as I recall it is usually offered as part of the package (after filling out FAFSA, etc.)

      1. Student Loans Newbie*

        I looked at various programs to lessen the burden and chose the one that will give me the best chance to be successful. I am currently working and tried to save money but family emergencies and awful planning on my side means my small nest fund is gone. I was hoping to delay my start date but it would have a significant impact on me applying to med schools. As in I would not be able to apply for two years due to the MCAT and finishing the prerequisites. I guess, I am trying to do the best I can to lessen the burden on myself.

        1. Gaia*

          By lessening the burden now you are significantly increasing your burden later. Be cautious now and you’ll be glad in the long term.

    4. Natalie*

      If you’re not picky about where you work after graduation, give the National Health Service Corps a look. You commit to working in an under served area after graduation in exchange for a pretty decent scholarship, between two and four years depending on how many years of money you apply for.

    5. HannahS*

      I applied to medical school in the US last year (as a Canadian, granted), so if you’ve already done this research, then ignore what I’m going to say. Some things to consider:
      1) Applying to medical school is has its own set of associated costs. Taking an MCAT prep course is over 1000-2000 dollars. Writing the MCAT costs 300-400. I *think* there’s a flat rate for applying through a common online portal, but there might be a fee per school, as well. It might be there’s no fee for the portal and maybe you get five apps for one cost and then after that you have to pay…? Point is, it’s expensive. You have to get to your interview, and possibly spend the night before in that city, and own a suit. The two essential ones (the MCAT and the application fees) can be reduced by the AAMC if you demonstrate financial need.

      2) There’s a database released by the AAMC that lists all of the medical schools in the US, with all kinds of great information about their admissions requirements, tuition cost, and the distribution of MCAT scores and GPAs of accepted students. You have to pay for access to it (it was about 180 CAD for a year) but it’s SO worth it. It gives you the ability to assess how likely a candidate you are for this school over that one, and what kinds of grades you’ll need from this post-BA year in order to have a good shot.

    6. Gaia*

      Take some advise from someone who has more than $80,000 in student loans: be extremely cautious and take out only the bare amount absolutely necessary. DO NOT use loans to pay day to day living expenses. DO NOT take out private loans. DO NOT take out more than you can easily afford to repay even if your pay ends up on the low end of the scale.

      You say there are no scholarships but that simply isn’t true. There are fewer, yes, but they exist. Find them. Or save money to cover some expenses before you begin. And once you do begin, if you are positive you won’t work at all, cut your expenses to the bare minimum (live with family, drop cable and home internet, meals should be basic and no eating out). It sounds terrible, and it isn’t great, but you will be grateful later.

      You should also look to make sure your school is competitively priced. You say there is a flat rate for the program: is it a reputable program with market similar prices? Could you take those classes elsewhere for less before entering med school?

      I cannot say this enough: act with extreme caution. I regret every month that no one gave me advice when I was 18 and signing up for these loans. I will be paying on them for the next 20 years. I won’t own a home because I can’t afford the mortgage and my loans. This is serious. Treat it as such.

    7. Andy*

      Hi! Did you know that if you work for many university systems you get tuition remission within their system as a job perk?

    8. ..Kat..*

      What about a community college to get the undergraduate classes you need for med school? These are often cheaper than other alternatives and offer evening/flexible schedules (so you can work at least part time). While this could mean it takes you a little longer to get your prerequisites for med school, going into med school without bad debt is a good thing.

      Also, what have you done to make sure being a doctor is for you? I ask this not to be mean, but because so many students start out wanting to be doctors, but then change their minds. Often after investing an amazing amount of time and money. Have you shadowed actual doctors, talked with them about what their jobs are really like? The long hours, the dealing with insurance companies, the massive amounts of soul killing paper work?

  88. user7447*

    What are the next steps after a conversation on the work time with your boss?

    I was employed to work a specific number of h a week. At the same time after just a few weeks at the company I was given additional responsibilities. My current tasks can’t be performed in the number of hours agreed in my contract. It’s absolutely not about my skills. Nobody would be able to perform these tasks in this time. As a result in the past I spend a lot of time working completely for free.

    I told that to my boss and asked him what solution he saw. I said I wouldn’t have a problem if he wanted to increase the number of h I work for them, but then we need to renegotiate my contract. The alternative is I work the number of h I’m paid for but then he needs to select the tasks I’m expected to work on, because the current expectations aren’t realistic.

    My boss rejected my first proposal. I am to work the number of hours in my contract.

    So basically nothing changed. But when I leave the office after spending there the number of h that stands in my contract my boss looks at me as if I killed his close relative.

    1. Girl Friday*

      I’m curious to know what field your in. I had a striking similar experience and I wonder if it’s and industry thing.

      1. user7447*

        IT.

        But I don’t think it’s an industry thing. It’s more of an “asshole thing” and “exploitation of labor in the contemporary professional world” thing.

    2. zora*

      UGH. You’re boss is being a jerk and putting you in an impossible situation.

      I think your only possible next steps are to learn how to ignore/detach from your boss’s pouting. It’s not fair and you have no obligation to manage his feelings.

      Maayyybeeee after 6 months if he is still making pouty faces, I might bring it up again as a “You seem unhappy with the current situation, if you would like to revisit the conversation about increasing my contracted hours, I am still open to that.” And if he says no again, then you can really ignore him from then on. He’s being a big baby.

  89. Teapot librarian*

    More good news this week! A project that was started eight years ago, and was then a victim of politics, is being finalized even as I type. We are loaning a bunch of artifacts to a museum that can actually display them and take good care of them. I’m so excited about this for many, many reasons. Hoarder Employee is…less excited.

  90. Ursula*

    I’m a recent graduate who is looking for a job. I have run into a problem that everyone wants references for the previous jobs I have mentioned on my CV. The problem with this is I went to university in Japan, while there I did a lot of freelance English teaching and translation (I am fluent in Japanese). I also worked for in a shop in a tourist area where I had many responsibilities involving drumming up business from the tourists and the owner was very happy with me, he did give me a letter saying how good I was when I left but it is in Japanese, he does not speak English at all, he also lives in Japan and I am now in the UK so time differences are also an issue. This is a pain because he thinks I’m great and I know if he spoke English and someone asked him he would give me a glowing reference.

    My other option for references is a handful of people I did freelance work for, but I am no longer in contact with most of them and the ones I am in contact with don’t speak English very well.

    Should I include a short paragraph stating this on my cover letter or does it sound like I am making excuses before they even start to contact references. I am already explicitly clear there jobs were in Japan. Considering how global the job market is now I cannot be the only person with this problem. So I’m curious how did other people solve this problem?

    2. Bagpuss*

      Would it be possible for you to get a certified translation of the letter, so you could still provide it, and explain the issues with more conventional references?

      1. Ursula*

        I do have a copy of what it says translated into English but that is something I did myself and not signed by my ex-employer. I did this just in case someone asked though I can understand how this might be useless to an employer (how do they know I didn’t write it myself?) But certified translation might be the way to go I will look into that.

  91. Aunt Vixen*

    Can you clean up this document for us, they said. It needs editing and formatting, they said.

    Sure, okay. I edit and format to bring the whole thing into compliance with our style guide. In particular I bust all the text out of a table and into sections – left table column becomes a header, right table column becomes a paragraph.

    Thanks, they said, we’ve accepted all your edits, but we need it back in the old format.

    (It’s been three and a half years. I shouldn’t be surprised anymore when it turns out they wish I hadn’t done exactly what they asked me to do. Sigh.)

    1. Ambpersand*

      Just reading this makes me extremely frustrated. I know what you’re dealing with, my friend.

  92. CatCat*

    Sometimes I roundabout find out about compliments about my work by people in superior positions to me. Someone will say, “Oh, I was in a meeting with Jane and she said great things about you.” “Wakeen mentioned to me what a great job you did on the Llama Wool Analysis.”

    But I don’t hear these things from Jane and Wakeen directly. It would just be nice if that were the case!

    1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I get this sometimes. I send an email to myself describing what was said so I can remember who said which nice thing about me to someone else! It’s a pretty roundabout way to get a compliment about my work, but I’ll take it!

  93. HeightsHeifer*

    How would you deal with a manager who is very strict with time spent in the office and PTO? I’m exempt, and in a management role, but my director is extremely rigid with my time. Like, if I need to leave an hour early for an appointment, I need to use PTO instead of working through lunch. I’ve been with the organization less than a year, so maybe I’m used to working with more leniency? But I can’t help but feel that my PTO is getting hacked away by this…

      1. HeightsHeifer*

        I’m with you. I was with my OldJob for several years and there was just an understanding there that sometimes people need to come in late or leave early and it wasn’t docked against their PTO. I feel like maybe I expected the same from this job based on my interview process and now I feel duped.

        1. Trillion*

          Plus if I work 47 hours in a week, I think it’s total BS to dock my PTO two hours for a doctor’s appointment in that week.

          Totally understandable if I work fewer than 40 hours in a week. But Salary needs to come with some kind of perk!

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      That is the policy in my office. I think it’s reasonable. They expect you to be present at certain hours, and if you aren’t, it’s fair for them to ask you to use PTO.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      As long as they’re rigid in both directions (i.e., they don’t also expect you to work through your lunch hour for free), you kinda have to either take it or leave it.

    4. Bagpuss*

      Is it something you an speak to your boss about? For instance, is it possible that the problem is that they don’t like you working through lunch and that if you asked to come in an hour early, or stay an hour late the day before you need the time of that they would be more open to it?
      I know someone who is a manager and who no longer allows people to work through lunch because they found that was it didn’t work -people still need to eat, and get distracted by colleagues being on break, so they didn’t actually make up anything close to the time they were taking, so they made a rule that no-one could work through lunch to make up for time off elsewhere but would allow people to arrive early or leave late because that seemed to work. I’m sure that there are lots of people who could make it work, but maybe there is something like that behind it?

      It may also depend on the role – how practical is it for you to be out during normal office hours, and who does it affect?

      1. HeightsHeifer*

        I tend to work through lunch, or eat my desk, most days, and I usually know well in advance of my appointments so I’ve tried to make it work as many different ways as I can think of. I’ve offered or have actually come in early or staying late the day of or before or after the appointment, working through lunch. I’m not allowed to work remotely which another thorn in my side, but my mindset has always been that there’s an underlying understanding of exempt employees. You are expected to work until the job is done and are not compensated in overtime, but should be “rewarded” in occasional flexibility when needed. I have spoken to my boss about this, but she’s rigid in her policy.

        I’m not saying I need to leave early every week or anything, but I’m beginning to resent the situation. I manage a small team and all are more than capable of handling the day to day operations and workload. I rarely have to intervene on someone’s behalf immediately so if there is something urgent, I can rely on the team to handle it or let me resolve it when I’m back in the office.

        1. WellRed*

          Your boss is too rigid. Exempt employees should be allowed to leave an hour early (or whatever) once in a while. Also, stop working through lunch.

          1. HeightsHeifer*

            I’m trying to stop! It’s not that I actually need to for workload, it’s mostly a motivation thing for me. For some reason taking a real lunch break tends to make me sleepy and makes the day drag on longer.

  94. NewBoss5000*

    Last January I was “promoted” to manage the para-professional staff in our academic department. I was given a new job title, but no raise (I was told I could get a stipend for this role, but later told there was only one stipend per department, and my boss already got ours). After over a year in this new role, and coming up on our annual appraisals, I decided to ask for a raise. Based on Alison’s advice in other columns, I spent some time researching salaries for positions similar to mine, and I wrote a letter outlining the discrepancy between my current salary and the market rate, along with my accomplishments this year. I sent this to my boss’s boss, the associate dean, (with my boss’s knowledge), who forwarded it to our dean.

    I had a meeting already scheduled with the associate dean for the next day, and when we met she delayed talking about the raise request for a bit before getting into it. Basically, no raise, though I was going to get the “merit increase” this year (I’ve gotten this every year, but it is far lower than what I was asking for). She also sort of subtly hinted that I had not asked for this raise in the correct way, or maybe at the wrong time (?), though she didn’t really explain this statement. She then said that of course, if I got an offer from somewhere else, the dean could make a counter-offer. I was kind of surprised by this (though I know that my ex used a counter-offer to get a bit of a raise several years ago. He didn’t get everything he wanted and ended up leaving for another job a year later).

    I was kind of angry (though I did my best to stay professional), and said that I thought the process of giving a raise only through counter-offers was sort of a cutthroat way of doing business. The associate dean said that this was just the way things were done at our institution, and asked me what I meant by “cutthroat.” I said that if the only reason to give a raise was to avoid having to go through the process of hiring someone new, it didn’t make current employees feel valued. I also said it was sort of unethical to go looking for another job just to get a counter-offer.

    Finally, I said that if I were to get an offer elsewhere, I would probably just take it and leave. Partly because I really do want to get away from this city (it’s expensive and not getting easier to live in), but also because I wouldn’t really trust a counter-offer.

    She didn’t really have much to say about that. I mentioned wanting more professional development opportunities, hoping that maybe she’d offer increased travel funds or something, but all she said was that if I wanted to go somewhere and couldn’t afford it, to ask her and maybe she could help me that way. It’s better than nothing, but it’s still making me beg for what I know I deserve. I left the meeting feeling really disappointed.

    I am currently in a five-year contract here, so taking a counter-offer wouldn’t necessarily put me in the same tenuous situation that Alison has warned about. But after reading Alison’s advice here and seeing letters where people took counter-offers only to be stabbed in the back later, I really hate the idea that my administration basically told me that they wouldn’t fight for me unless I was going to leave. It just seems so cold and calculating. They’re basically telling me the only way to get what I’m worth is to threaten them.

    Sorry for the long-winded rant. I’m just wondering if anyone else has been told by their bosses that the only way to get a raise is through a counter-offer. Or if anyone knows anyone else who has gone through a situation like this.

    1. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Oh man that sucks! Let me start by saying that I think it’s super badass and amazing that you said all of that to them. That took serious guts and is something that I think many people only wish they could muster up the courage to say. This may not mean much coming from an internet stranger, but I’m proud of you. I hope you are proud of yourself too. (In a real, genuine, non-scolding sarcastic way.)

      The only good thing to come out of that is you now know where things stand and how they work around there. It’s not good, but at least there’s no question of what it will take. This is kinda one of those “your boss sucks and isn’t going to change” moments. Take what you know and GTFO.

      —————–

      If this helps you feel “better”, here’s my similar story:
      Years ago I was a member of a three-person marketing department supporting about a dozen separate properties, and to say we were drowning was an understatement. I was making an obscenely small amount of money, getting paid intern money to do management-level work. I’m not even sure I was making minimum wage if I averaged out the money I was making to the hours I was working. After two years I finally said enough was enough and gathered up the courage to ask for a raise. In hindsight I did not do the best job (I wish I knew AAM existed back then!) in asking, but I still asked and made enough good points (low salary, significantly increased workload with no increase in staff, market-based research, etc) to warrant at least a discussion.

      Or so I thought. I was told that while yea they guessed I was doing a bunch of work that was oooookay it wasn’t nearly enough to warrant a raise and that if they doubled(!) the amount of properties we were supporting maybe they would consider bringing on one(!!) more person to the team. And despite market research showing I was severely underpaid and all of the evidence of me doing consistent high-quality work in increasingly higher and higher volumes, they said “they were paying me what they thought I was worth” and wouldn’t consider giving me any raise.

      I was absolutely crushed. You would think that them telling me I was essentially worthless to them would have lit a fire under my butt to get out ASAP, but severe stress and feelings of worthlessness kind of crippled my ability to function outside of work and I didn’t end up leaving until I was laid off a year later. God help that two person team handling what three people couldn’t. It ended up being a blessing in disguise but if you learn anything from my bad experience, GTFO asap and find a company that cares about compensating their employees properly and retaining them.

      1. NewBoss5000*

        Thank you! It’s nice to know others understand. Nearly everyone at my workplace is woefully underpaid, and it is a totally open secret, so I wasn’t completely shocked by this. But I also know that there are a few people who were brought in long after I was that are definitely paid more than I am right now, and while that’s understandable from a recruitment point of view, it does kind of feel like the administration is basically saying “you aren’t worth as much to us as these new people.” They’re also in more flashy roles, that are getting a lot of attention (and thus a lot of support), and I just kind of feel like I don’t matter at all. And, based on the conversation earlier this week, I don’t.

        It does suck indeed.

    2. Pollygrammer*

      I had a job where it was sort of an unwritten rule that the only reliable way to get a raise was with another offer, but to basically flat out tell you to start job-hunting while seemingly hoping you’re not sincere about it is effing ridiculous.

      1. NewBoss5000*

        Yeah, it was almost comical. I wanted to say “you know, that’s sort of the opposite of what you’re supposed to do.” I’m doing my best to get out of here, but there is a lot of competition for the jobs out there. I’m trying to use my time here to learn as much as I can so I’m a better candidate going forward. But I hate all of the manufactured sincerity I get from administration, who *tells* me how much they value me (seriously, the AD said “we value you so much, and we appreciate everything you do!”) while demonstrating that they don’t value me at all.

  95. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

    Volunteering in university libraries and health libraries (UK, in a LIS master’s now). I’m trying to find places to volunteer at after this semester is over and I thought of a couple really great options, but I’m struggling with finding the right person to contact. Anyone have any advice on what sort of job titles the people who deal with volunteers might have? I found a university library that would be perfect for me, but I can’t find any hint of a volunteer or internship program on their website. I’ve shelved books before and would be happy to do that again or other things–not gonna be too picky here.

    1. Simone R*

      In my experience, university libraries do not usually have volunteers (in the US) so there might not be someone specific dedicated to running a program. If you are interested in shelving books, I would contact whoever is in charge of circulation, if you’re interested in reference, I would contact the head of reference, etc. You could include a line in the email, asking if there is a better person to contact at that library.

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        Thanks!

        I mentioned shelving, but I’m also open to other things like reference–it’s more important that I have something, and this library covers a lot of my interests. I know it looks bad to apply willy-nilly to jobs in different departments, but is it the same sort of thing for volunteering?

    2. Jess*

      I’d ask the lecturers etc on your programme – the library world is so small that they’re bound to have links with local university or health libraries and will be able to find a route to the right person through that. They can also make a personal recommendation and get you through the door. If your programme has a placement element, I’d also check with the people there – again, they will have a lot of links.

      I’ve also seen people posting on mailing lists such as lis-link looking for volunteer experience, so you could give that a go.

      1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

        We actually have a guest lecturer who works at my first-choice library and has close ties to my program (as in he just graduated from here in the last couple years and has shown up at some of our social events) coming to one of my classes in a week or two. I’ve spoken to him once or twice (but I don’t know if he would recognize me) and have been considering asking him about it but am torn about whether it would be weird. They don’t seem to emphasize placements much here other than a few postings on the program website–I’m not required to do one to graduate or anything.

        I’ll ask one of my regular lecturers about it at least, and I’ll check out lis-link too. Thanks. :)

        1. Jess*

          It wouldn’t be weird at all, I’d definitely ask him. Getting your name passed along by someone they know will get you much further than cold calling.

          There’s a few different Lis-lists for different specialities – lis-link is the general one and the only one I can think of off the top of my head, but there’s one called lis-medical I think, and probably a local one too. They can be useful for job postings too (if you can put up with a lot of ILL requests).

    3. Amey*

      I work in a UK university and I don’t think external volunteers in our library are common. It’s different from a public library is I think the issue – external people can absolutely access it but it’s not a community service in the same way as a public library. Also there’s already the whole student body of the university as a resource for volunteers / paid helpers (I think generally we pay for this kind of thing in our institution) and we’ll usually want to focus on increasing the employability of our own students first.

      I do really think talking to your programme leader / tutors about how people normally get work experience opportunities is the way to go. What about starting with the librarians at your own institution first? And what about something other than volunteering? Could you see about shadowing some university librarians at different universities for a day each? Or at least see if you could get a meeting and tour to find out what they do? I think that could be really useful and I think people are more likely to agree to it. I’m honestly not sure that a month shelving books in my university library is going to be much use to you or give you much insight into the work of a professional librarian, much of which actually happens behind closed doors.

  96. Arils*

    Federal app question: when it says “Can we contact your supervisor? Yes, No, Contact me first”, does Contact Me First mean that they would call me first and then I’d tell them if it was okay to contact my supervisor at that point or is it just a courtesy call?

    I don’t want them to call my current supervisor just yet, as I haven’t told them we’re moving to the opposite coast. There is a chance they will let me telework, so there’s that…

    And while were at it: any CDC Public Health Advisors/Analysts on AAM today? Any words of wisdom? Thanks!

    1. Snark*

      It generally means either “There are complicating factors like the person may have retired or been transferred, so call me so I can explain that” or “Please contact me so I can tell you when it’s okay to contact this person.”

    2. J.B.*

      I would select contact me first. I doubt it will impede getting an interview then you can explain the situation at an interview. In my experience government jobs call references only for the top 1 or 2 candidates, after the interview. (There is paperwork involved.)

    4. hermit crab*

      Ha! I have no advice, but think I was just reading that same pair of ads on usajobs. I keep coming back to them but get scared away by the whole usajobs application process.

    5. valc2323*

      Atlanta represent!

      A colleague of mine moved to the opposite coast and did extended telework with his spouse for a while, so it is possible within agency rules, but will depend on your direct hierarchy and how flexible they are willing to be. The requirement for “two days per pay period at duty station” meant that my colleague ended up commuting to Atlanta four days out of every four weeks – he would do thursday/friday of pay week 2, stay the weekend, and monday/tuesday of pay week 1 – at his own expense, and ultimately decided that the travel cost wasn’t worth it to him.

      I’ve actually run into challenges with the references question. The “contact me first”, in my head, means that I should know about it before they contact a current or former supervisor, so that I can offer additional information or make sure the person knows a call is coming or whatever. When I’ve been on the hiring side of USAJobs we always did interviews first and confirmed references at that time, then called, so there were no surprises. When I was on the being-hired side most recently, it was exactly the same — interview, then when they decided to move me forward they contacted my references, which included my current supervisor. However I have heard from friends and colleagues that this does not always hold true. Sometimes a current or past supervisor will get a call because as we all know it’s a small world, and hiring managers see names of people they used to work with or people their kids go to school with or people who live in their neighborhood and they just email directly and ask without checking on that “ok to contact” button.

  97. Namast'ay in Bed*

    TL:DR – The last company I worked for is showing signs of going down the tubes and I’m feeling sad and also kinda giddy about it.

    I left for a variety of reasons but in the end I was working 14+ hour days and dry-heaving every morning due to stress. It took me a while to get over the feeling that something was wrong with me because everyone else was handling the post-acquisition changes just fine and I had failed. But I’m in a much better place now, and the few people I’m still in contact with from there are telling me that I was smart to get out while I did, sharing horror stories of major benefits being cut, dozens of people leaving, and several key players quitting to the point where the ability of the company to function is being questioned.

    I’m sure everyone has fantasies of jobs they hate failing after they leave, and mine is actually sort of happening. I feel vindicated, like “I flippin’ knew things were rotten, I didn’t just suck”, and yet I’m sad because I used to really love working there and people I care about still work there. I think what’s making me sad is the same thing that kept me working there for so long, like I’m mourning the loss of what used to be.

    I dunno, is it weird to feel bad and also bask in the warm glow of their self-destruct sequence engaging?

    1. Listen to the universe*

      Same, except I left a smaller company. Toxic for sure, but liked working with my grand boss and sad when I left. However, after a period of mourning, I began looking outside of my specialty and have come to realize that there are multiple opportunities for future success. Trite, but sometimes things happen for a reason.

      Btw, love, love, love the name! If you can come up with that, your creative abilities have probably been under appreciated anyway…Best of luck!!!

      1. Namast'ay in Bed*

        Thanks so much! I’ve moved on and am doing much better personally and professionally. I’ve had a lot of great things happen in my life that only came from going down a path I was desperately trying to avoid, so I’d like to think things happen for a reason :-)

    3. Windchime*

      If it’s wrong to feel bad and also basking, then I don’t wanna be right.

      The place I left for my current job was like this. They have been sold twice, and the department I left is in a death spiral. They have two managers for six people and the “data warehouse” they are creating is laughable. The company who bought ours said that no layoffs would happen until two years were up; the CIO bailed when the two year anniversary came around. It’s a train wreck and I’d be dancing except I still have a couple of friends there and I worry for their jobs.

  98. Interview Thank you thanks emails*

    I just interviewed with 5 people. Do I send thank you emails separately or ok to include them all in one email?

    1. baconeggandcheeseplease*

      Separate, and slightly personalized towards each conversation (as much as you can, I know it’s hard after you’ve been through a whirlwind of discussions).

    3. Blue Eagle*

      Is it really necessary to contact all 5 people? How about just contacting the hiring manager and the main HR person. It always seemed weird to me to receive a thank you note when I interviewed someone but was not the hiring manager.

  99. Alexa*

    My partner works remotely for a research project based in Ethiopia. Her team wants her to join them onsite for 1-2 years, and I would of course like to move with her. How do I go about finding a job in Ethiopia while still in the US? Any advice for living/working overseas?

    What kind of jobs should I be looking at? (I.e. Ethiopian vs foreign companies, NGO’s, UN or gov jobs, research teams, etc.) I’m a recent grad, I studied philosophy, and I’m interested in working on gender issues or women’s health. (I dislike that the world works this way, but I think I have a better-than-average shot as a fresh grad because my degree is from a top Ivy League school.) I don’t have much office experience, but I worked jobs all through college including managing a coffee shop.

    1. Reba*

      Sounds like a cool opportunity!

      Wrt NGOs, there are probably a bazillion. USAID has a large portfolio of activities in Ethiopia as well. It will probably be easiest to get hired by a US-based org or at least one with a US office (assuming you are a US citizen). Not least because Ethiopian organizations really struggle under onerous regulations there.

    2. Kuododi*

      Just a thought…might be worth looking into a tour with the Peace Corps. I do not know however, if you can interview and specify the country where you are assigned. When DH served he was randomly assigned to West Africa…then again he had no particular investment one way or another. He ended up really loving his 2.5 year tour with Peace Corps. Worth looking into for the information. Good luck.

      1. Reba*

        Nowadays, the PC posts specific country openings as well as general “send me” openings.

        However, you’d still be in a rural area and not that flexible about the village (and Ethiopia is a very large country!) so it may not accomplish the goal of being with one’s partner.

        1. Kuododi*

          Thanks for the update!!!DH served 87-89…aka “the dawn of time” so it’s good to hear from folks with more current info!!!

  100. I need to vent*

    My new job (that I otherwise enjoy) has an open office floorplan and IT IS THE WORST for a lot of reasons, but the thing I am having the most trouble with this week (since I am already out of sorts and tired from the time change) is the really nice coworker who puts in headphones and HUMS REALLY LOUDLY AND WHISTLES ALL DAY.

    Louder than my noise canceling headphones will cancel out.

    Louder than my earplugs will muffle.

    ARGHHHHHHH

    1. Snark*

      Oh hell naw on that noise. You’re 100% in the clear to say, “Fergus, I’ve got to ask you to completely cut out the whistling and humming. It’s so loud I can hear it with my noise canceling headphones on. Please stop.”

      “Fergus, like I asked you, the humming and whistling really has to stop.”

      “IT STOPS THE WHISTLING OR IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN”

    2. Quaggaquagga*

      If this guy has headphones on while he’s doing this, he may have no idea how loud he’s being. I’d kindly let him know, and he’ll probably be quite embarrassed!

      1. Tardigrade*

        “I wanted to let you know that you’re whistling so loudly I can hear you over my headphones.”

        “I’m… whistling?”

        “Like the rooster from Robin Hood.”

    3. clow*

      My old job had this. I have no idea who thought open offices were a good idea but i freaking hated everything about them. My productivity tanked after that switch. We just had rows and rows of desks all next to each other, it felt dystopian. For the coworker who is really nice, do you think you could just say something? They probably dont even realize they are doing it.

      1. I need to vent*

        Ugh, I am having the hardest time with it – it is a horrible idea! I feel like it must have been thought up by someone who didn’t trust their employees to do work if they were allowed privacy. I feel like I am so much less productive than I could be and it is very frustrating. When I had my own office and could close the door, I got so much done!!! It was great. I dream of the day I have that again.

      1. BadPlanning*

        I had a coworker who was doing this. I made a joke about this and discovered he didn’t realize (!!) he was audibly singing along. So after that, when it got annoying, I could send him an IM like, “singing!” and he would stop for awhile.

      2. AvonLady Barksdale*

        I used to work across from a woman who did this. And it wasn’t lyrics, it was this kind of gravelly hum-and-scat she kept up all. damn. day. I had a door I could close and I often would, but it drove me crazy. She wasn’t in my department, though, and she was known to be extraordinarily prickly, so no one ever said anything to her. A new person joined her team, and Singing Woman asked the new person if she minded the singing, and the new person (on her first day, mind) kind of said, “Oh, I’m sure it won’t bother me.” Two weeks later you could see the pain on the new person’s face.

        People. Do not do this. I also hate whistling.

    5. Anonygrouse*

      At my old job we had 4 chronic whistlers in our suite. A year after leaving and I still glare involuntarily at whistling people; the sound makes me want to smash things. Sending my misophonic sympathies!

  101. President Porpoise*

    My bosses keep stealth assigning me leadership roles on projects. It is so disconcerting. Boss: “hey, someone just quit, so could you help us out with Thing You’ve Never Done Before for a bit? I know you’ve never done it, but we have faith in you.” Colleague, several weeks later: “Hey Mdme President Porpoise, you’re the expert and in charge of this area, how should I handle XYZ?” Me: “WTF just happened here?”

    1. periwinkle*

      There have been times I’ve joined a project to help out only to discover that I’m supposed to act as the team expert on this thing I’ve done a couple times in the distant past. Um, okay, eeek…

  102. NylaW*

    Thanks to all the advice and resources on this site, I just accepted an offer for a new job this week. It’s still in IT and in the healthcare industry that I’m used to, but with a more defined focus on something I’m very passionate about and interested in, more opportunity for growth (larger organization, larger area), and working with a couple of people in key roles that I already know and have worked with before. I feel more excited about it each day, which tells me this is the right move for me.

  103. How much should salary increase when moving to management?*

    I need some advice about how much to expect in a raise when first moving to management.

    I’ve been with my company for 5 years, moving from an entry level phone room position to project manager to an operations role where I’m overseeing half of our project process, but I’ve never formally managed people. Now I’m being offered a promotion that would make me manager of our phone room team (approx 7 people), while still retaining responsibility for half of the operations end of our project process ( think setting standards for internal record keeping and adherence to project budgets) for the whole company (under 100 people).

    We’re also looking to double the size of my team by the end of the year.

    My salary is currently around $50K and I’m not sure what to expect as a reasonable raise. Since I know this impacts salary: I live in the biggest Midwest city in the US and I’m in the market research field. Anyone in a comparable position who would be willing to talk about the size of the salary increase they got when moving to management?

  104. jess*

    When a job listing specifically solicits applicants with [touchy personal experience], how do you address that in the cover letter and interviews in a professional way? If that experience makes you a legally protected class, are there any EEOC concerns (for the US)?

    The scenario: my sister is applying for a job that explicitly has a requirement firsthand experience with mental health issues, so as to connect better with the community being served. (A background in counseling or psychology isn’t required, but that’s an alternative to yourself having managed, say, depression.) I’ve advised her to treat it in the cover letter as a “challenge and how I’ve dealt with it” sort of question: don’t talk about the background or extenuating circumstances, do talk about the coping strategies. Any other thoughts or ideas, especially if you work in a connected field?

      1. anonagain*

        I’d imagine it depends on the job. I know a few people who are peer counselors, so the shared experience piece is really important.

      2. Kuododi*

        Oh I’m not sure how the ad for the position is worked but here in US it is fairly common….(not universal), for community and state mental health ctrs to have some type of community outreach position working specifically within the community of mental health clients. The responsibilities involved education, support marketing, case management type skills. The candidate would be a person who has experienced mental health system both as a client and an employee. Legalities…. I imagine it would involve the specific wording of the employment ad. Just guessing!

    2. Competent Commenter*

      Oh my. Not a fan of them asking this. They should just say that they are open to working with people with all kinds of differences, including mental health issues, or something like that, just imply that it’s okay to mention your personal mental health if it’s relevant and leave it at that.

      My advice is to mention it briefly in the cover letter only. “I was particularly interested in this position because of my personal experiences managing mental health issues.” You can add some adverbs/adjectives like “successfully” or “past”. Another option is to say something like, “because I have seen firsthand the impact of untreated mental health issues on families, “or some such so it is vague whether you’re talking about yourself or a loved one.

      I’ve had to include similar language when applying for jobs at agencies that work on issues like a particular type of cancer, where I have family members who had had that cancer. And that was in cases where I didn’t need to mention it, but it showed I had a personal interest. I would try to keep a similar tone, as opposed to saying, “I’ve lived with schizophrenia for 30 years.”

      1. jess*

        Thank you for your insight! I particularly like the idea of “seen firsthand” and emphasizing it just as a personal interest rather than skill set.

  105. Teapot librarian*

    Along with my good news, the following things happened this week:
    1. Employee A complained that I keep giving him more things to do and he doesn’t have time to do it all. His weekly reports include the amount of time he spends on various responsibilities–I did this so I could calculate the amount of time we need as an office to get everything done, not to micro-manage their use of time, but sometimes one has to micro-manage–and it has only recently gone up from 20 hours to 30 hours. I don’t expect 100% productivity, but…
    2. I had a conversation also with Employee A about job performance. If someone emails asking for X, and you respond “we don’t have Z,” that’s a problem.
    3. Two weeks ago I emailed Employee B with a document for his review and asked for a response by one day this week. On that day around noon I asked him if he was done and he responded that he hadn’t gotten my email. This despite a reminder in an email he did receive. We had a chat about how if he “overlooks” my emails, I wonder what else he’s “overlooking.”
    4. I still haven’t had a chance to finish the PIP I was writing last week. Sigh.

    1. JS*

      The issue of time management / overload of duties has been coming up in my library. How have you handled that conversation with Employee A about including the amount of time he spends on responsibilities in your meetings? I’m at an academic library and I feel like there would be a department-wide meltdown if we asked people to do that. To be clear, I’m not in charge, but I’ve been playing that mind game of “If I were in charge, how would I…?” and I’m curious about your experience.

    2. Lalaroo*

      This seems really in line with what most people said on the answer to the recently-posted question about what percentage of time at work you actually spend working. It seemed like most people answered between 70-80%, and your employee is spending 75%, which seems pretty average.

      Is that one employee the only one you’ve given this requirement to? If not, how does his time differ from the other employees?

  106. Dr. Doll*

    This may be a stretch, but it’s clothes for work, so: Does anyone know if the Betabrand “dress yoga pants” have a cameltoe issue?

      2. Sack of Benevolent Trash Marsupials*

        Ugh, not always – I have tried pants on that were loose but creased in an unpleasant V shape in the, ahem, cameltoe area. However, I know nothing about the actual question re dress yoga pants – but am interested in finding out. I see them advertised everywhere and wonder if they are any good!

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I have a similar pair, not Betabrand but same style, and yes that can be an issue unless I adjust the front waistband a bit lower.

      FWIW, the only differences I’ve found between yoga pants and yoga work pants are the work pants have back pockets and more obvious side seams so they look a little more polished – the style I have is boot cut. Still very form fitting from waist to knee though. I wouldn’t wear them to work without a tunic-length top because they are too body con/too close to leggings for me.

    3. KnottyFerret*

      I like my betabrand dress pants. They are thicker than most slacks, but with some stretch so they are more comfortable. They do run into the yoga pants look if they’re a little small. My black ones look more or less like a cotton blend, but my grey ones pick up that “I’m stretchy” shimmer. You will never press creases into them. I went with the palazzo style, so the flowiness seems more appropriate. I am not uncomfortable wearing them with a tucked in blouse, though I mostly wear tunic styles. I’ve had supervisors who dress in skirt suits compliment my betabrand pants as snazzy.
      Caveat: my office is on the casual end of business casual, so appropriate here may not fly in your office.

    4. Lilith*

      I ordered the betabrand dress pant yoga pants and indeed had issues with cameltoe–if this is an issue that you have often with yoga pants or other types of pants due to body type, I think you will almost definitely have the same issue with Betabrand. FWIW, I have a weirdly long rise (seat?) but betabrand pants gave me way more cameltoe than even my tightest yoga pants.

  107. Fired, But trying to get unemployment*

    Will try to make this short and simple. Background : Been at a small family owned business for just over two years, with a toxic environment, and have seen 7 fellow (non family) coworkers get fired. I was really the only one to ever make it to the two year mark. Recently we began losing clients regularly. When I started, I used to only log 5-10% of my time a week to overhead, but in the last few months it’s been around 75%+ logged to overhead because of lack of work. Between this, and “boss is a jerk and will not change”., I started looking for a job. Well word got out, and I was just fired out of the blue for “misconduct”. Basically I updated a file on SharePoint, and it accidentally deleted some info from the previous version. My boss threw a fit, but I was able to immediately use the Restore button in SharePoint to get the old document back. Then five days later, this was used as a misconduct excuse to fire me.

    Question: I have had no write ups ever, and can show all my reviews (even the one from Jan) were stellar, and included praise/bonuses. I know that my former boss will try to fight my unemployment. What are my chances though of still receiving it, as there is no history of misconduct. Should I hire an attorney for a few hours to sit in on the appeal (if necessary)?
    Thanks in advance for your input!

    1. Liane*

      Generally, in US states, misconduct has to be really egregious, like battery or major theft, to get unemployment denied. Not “James accidentally erased data recovered in 2 minutes” but “James deliberately sabotaged our mainframe, erased the cloud backups, and changed our webpage motto to ‘We S–K!'”
      So you should be able to get it, even if ExCo contests. And don’t worry about any UI investigation, I had to speak to one of the UI people who make those determinations and she was great, not at all adversarial. Good luck.

      1. Fired, But trying to get unemployment*

        Thank you, this makes me feel much better! I’ve never been fired before, and only had to collect unemployment once for a layoff, so there were no problems with that claim.

    2. E*

      It sounds like the evidence you can provide of your job performance is excellent. The former boss doesn’t have sufficient evidence to cause unemployment to be denied as far as I know.

      1. E*

        Also, for the few hearings I attended as HR for the company, if we couldn’t show that an employee had a clear paper trail of written warnings in compliance with our company policy, the unemployment would be granted (as it should be). If your former boss had no policy on these matters, he still would need to be able to show evidence of prior warnings on issues (which you didn’t have).

        1. Fired, But trying to get unemployment*

          Thank you!! Have you ever seen attorneys present to help employees in these matters? I am concerned because Jerk-boss is vindictive, and once tried to sue a former employee for non-compete. Jerk-boss lost, but it almost cost that guy his new job.

    3. Luna123*

      If you’ve had stellar performance reviews, had no prior warnings about misconduct, and what you did was an accident that was quickly reversed, I have a feeling that you’ll get unemployment after an appeal.

      I’d recommend asking for your personnel file, if you haven’t done that already, so that you have copies of your performance reviews. In my state, an employer has to keep all personnel files for two years, and if you request yours, they have to send it to you within 45 days.

      Good luck!!!

  108. exhausted anon*

    Have you ever left a great job because you hated where it was?

    I love my job. I’m GREAT at my job. I just really despise the city it’s in. I’ve been trying to live here and make a home for some time and I’m miserable. It’s dirty, the people are rude, no one seems to care about any of it and I’m afraid to leave the house after dark.

    Commuting in from elsewhere is no option, unfortunately, because I don’t drive for medical reasons and public transport is already a mess when you’re in the city, outside of it I’d need to commute 2-3 h (one way) and I’m not willing to put that in. It’s the reason why I moved in the first place for the job.

    My family says I’m mad for thinking about leaving the best job I’ll ever have (which unfortunately is no hyperbole) simply because I want to live somewhere where it’s nice. Am I?

    1. Temperance*

      Your family is selling you short. You can’t possible know whether your job is “the best job you’ll ever have”, and neither can your family.

      Work is not your whole life. You can choose to live somewhere that works for you and the kind of life you want to live.

      2. EmilyG*

        Agreed that you needn’t believe this is the only job for you. I was once in a situation where I liked the job, disliked the place (maybe not as extreme as yours). I buckled down, worked hard for a few years, and got a *better* job in a better place. How long have you been there?

        1. exhausted anon*

          Well to be fair, I’m in a specific industry and my skills are not transferable to other industries (other companies totally of course), and I’m one of the top 3 companies. I’ve only been here a bit over a year, but at the moment job hopping isn’t my concern for various reasons. So the assumption that this is may or may not be the best job I’ll ever have may or may not be valid.

          I can stick it out until I find a fitting job, I don’t need to move now now now… But it’s something I’ve been considering to the point where I browse job postings not just casually.

          But thank you for your kind words, they are very appreciated and I will consider them for sure.

    2. Squeeble*

      If you’re miserable in the city you live in, no amount of amazing job is going to change that.

    4. MissDisplaced*

      YES. Last year my company decided to move into the downtown area of a large city.
      This impacted everyone’s commute, taxes and the cost associated with parking or having to get public transportation. When I calculated my costs of having to go into the city, it was over $5,500 a year. We were not given a raise or other compensation to cover the additional expenses. AND THEN they rescinded work-at-home policies in order to ‘build a culture.’
      I quit 2 months into that.

      1. Mephyle*

        Oh yes, they built a culture all right. Just not the kind they ought to have boasted about.

        1. exhausted anon*

          Yes, that is the wrong kind of culture indeed!

          Thank you for your insights. Indeed, commuting, aside from the waste of time, would be an additional cost I hadn’t even considered yet.

    5. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I’m in the process of looking for a new job specifically *because* of the location! I moved across the country to take a great professional step, and while the job itself is fine the town I live in very much is not.

      As you look for something else, I would just caution you to really take a deep dive into the area you’ll be moving to. I was also living in a city that had crime and cleanliness issues and was increasingly impossible to afford, so I decided to take a job in a very rural area that I assumed would have a lower cost of living. In fact, the cost of housing here is just as expensive as in my old city because it’s the only place for hundreds of miles that people actually want to live. If you’re moving from a great distance (and not just like to the neighboring town) make sure to spend a significant amount of time there to assess the culture, nightlife, safety, costs, etc. Moving for a job is no joke, so its worthwhile to do your due diligence up front to ensure the location will support the lifestyle you want for the foreseeable future.

      1. exhausted anon*

        You bring up very good things and thank you for your answer.

        I’m in an industry that has limited locations. There’s definitely more than a handfull, but I can’t find just any job in any city I want. I have one favourite city in mind (but jobs there are few and far in between), so I keep wondering if maybe that colors my opinions as well. Though of course, running into drunks who try to molest you at 6 in the morning is souring me to the city as well.

        Thank you for your words, I will take it into consideration for sure, and thank you for cautioning me to the risks as well. I hadn’t considered it that far yet, maybe I’m just so eager to be out of here.

    6. London Calling*

      I am great at my job. It is the best paid job I have ever had and I have near total autonomy to do it as I see fit. Senior management loves me. The job involves a commute 18 miles each way every day and I worked out the other day that in the last year I have travelled the equivalent of London-Far East. It is making me miserable and depressed and the getting up at 6am and dreadful train companies and sitting on a train and the thought of how many hours of my life I am doing this for are turning me into someone I do not want to be, and it is having a major effect on my attitude.

      You are not mad. You do what is best for you, not your family. And unless they have a crystal ball, they have no way of saying with any confidence that is the best job you will ever have. Maybe it’s a cover for their concern, but they have to be told to trust that you know what you are doing.

      1. exhausted anon*

        Omg yeah. The thing is, you can easily, easily!, commute for an hour through this city to work and this city is a fraction the size of London. I’m lucky I’m not. I have relatives around 40 miles from here and sometimes I sleep there and then commute in in the morning, but that’s hours spent on the train and busses for very little gain.

        Thank your for posting, I think I have some serious re-evaluating to do. I was in another city a few jobs ago which I hated (was laid off so the decision never came up) and I thought it was the size and the many people, but more and more I think it’s a certain feel (post-industrial disrepair). Anyway. Thank you.

        1. London Calling*

          That is what makes you – and certainly me – stop and think about it: totting up the hours spent on a train when you could be doing something else. On a bad day my commute at either end can be two hours, and there are things to do at home and interests that I have pretty much abandoned because there isn’t the time and I feel too ground down to pay attention. Add in all the other minor discontents about work and as my ex-h used to say (and probably still does) – ‘life’s too short.’

          Thank you for posting, as well. Typing this has really clarified how I feel about my job. I have the fear as well that I’ll not find anything that pays as well, but the money isn’t worth feeling miserable. Best of luck with what you decide.

  109. sange*

    I am a finalist for a high-level job with a lot of natural social opportunities. It is an elevated version of my current position; I would be relocating for the role. As one of the final interviews, the future CEO pleasantly asked if my husband could join us. I think it will be a dinner with at least the CEO and his spouse, and likely others. Problem? I do not ever bring my husband to work functions: he is an introvert, not knowledgeable about our field, and as much as I adore him, not socially natural.

    I don’t want to put too much pressure on him or freak him out (“You’re embarrassing and socially unacceptable, please study!”), but I really want this to be successful. Any resources that I can share with him to prepare him for this dinner?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Is it possible to save both of you the stress and decline the invitation for him to attend? Maybe make up a fake obligation that conflicts with the dinner?

      1. sange*

        I made a fake obligation at the last round of interviews – this one, they specifically asked so that they could schedule and include him. Unfortunately, we’re in for this one!

    2. Reba*

      I mean, unless your spouse is a real ogre I don’t really see the reasons that you raised as impediments to him being a reasonable guest at one dinner. Not meant to undermine you here, just a nudge that maybe it’s not that huge an obstacle?

      Being an introvert =/= can’t talk to others for a night (esp. if it’s a small group as it seems a dinner would be). Not knowledgeable about the field — they want to hire you, not him, and if you talk shop and he’s pretty quiet, that’s actually fine. Awkward — maybe ask him to prepare a couple small talk type topics he’s comfortable with?

      Good luck!

    3. WellRed*

      If it’s more of a social dinner, I doubt he’ll need to know anything about this field.

      1. sange*

        Thanks very much for these insights! Especially preparing some small talk conversations and topics. I think we can do that.

        For background, I work in a very insidery field (performing arts), and most people are married to others in our field or enthusiasts: artists, music lovers and people who keep up with our field, performers, other arts administrators. Since most people in my field have a personal love for the arts, they tend to partner up with people who share their interests. The CEO I’m having dinner with, for example – his wife has an advanced degree in our field.

        And my husband…well…the past times I have tried to integrate him to work events have been unsuccessful. And not in a “Isn’t he quirky?” kind of way.

    4. Gloucesterina*

      sange, it sounds like this company really values you as a potential colleague! So I wouldn’t frame this dinner for yourself (or your spouse) as a make-or-break situation by any means–they want to impress you both, and I imagine they’ll be trying to make you all feel comfortable and welcome.

      I am a introvert and not knowledgeable about fields outside the ones I study and work in; I am also capable of bland, pleasant small talk about bland, general topics even if doing so is miles away from my preferred activity. I guess you haven’t given us enough detail to know if your spouse has serious social anxiety or other barriers to engaging in low-stakes small talk or if he’s more like me?

  110. DietCokeHead*

    I’ve been sick from work since Wednesday and I’m worried about burning through a large chunk of my PTO.

    So what happened was on Tuesday evening, I started experiencing severe abdominal pain. I went to the er where after many hours and much iv pain meds and many tests, they found a kidney stone but said it usually shouldn’t cause so much pain in its current location. I got sent home with a referral to a urologist and scripts for antibiotics and a painkiller.

    I stayed home Wednesday but went in on Thursday because we had a mandatory all staff meeting. I only made it until noon when I started whimpering because the pain was too much. Stayed home again today.

    My appointment with the urologist isn’t until Tuesday of next week and I’m afraid that I won’t be able to do anything because of the pain. What can I do? Could I use fmla until the kidney stone passes or at least gets under control and I can breath again without hurting.

    1. k.k*

      My first step would be to look at your employee handbook, or to talk to HR (or whoever in your office handles that). Many companies have policies in place to handle extended medical leaves.

    2. fposte*

      Ouch; that sounds really miserable.

      For most offices, FMLA wouldn’t prevent you from using your PTO; it’s legal and common for an employer to require you to use your PTO concurrent with FMLA and then days beyond your PTO would be taken unpaid. If that’s not your office’s policy, absolutely look into FMLA, but at most offices it would just mean doing more paperwork for the same absence.

      When you say Tuesday of next week, do you mean the 20th or the 27th? If it’s the 20th, I’d say just take the days, but if you mean the 27th, I’d talk to your manager and ask her for some guidance in handling the situation.

      1. DietCokeHead*

        I would 110% recommend not getting a kidney stone.

        I did look at my handbook and from what I read, I don’t think my office requires employees to use PTO before going on FMLA.

        My appointment is the 20th and I think it will just be a consult. Probably the best plan is to wit until there’s a plan for dealing with the stone and then talk to my boss since I hopefully will have a time frame as to how long this all will take.

        1. fposte*

          Just to be clear–it’s not *before* going on FMLA. It’s that days off for FMLA come out of your PTO pool, so you still have twelve weeks total that you could be out in the year rather than 12 weeks + your PTO.

          But if yours isn’t like that, ask about FMLA ASAP.

  111. periwinkle*

    Just dealing with a little survivor guilt here… Our entire function is undergoing a massive re-organization which included a new org design. That was followed by a three-phase job shuffling: current managers were put into their new roles or informed they were no longer managers; individual contributors (and some of the ex-managers) were placed in new roles or were informed that they didn’t make the first cut; and finally, those who weren’t placed by now could either interview for open internal roles or start looking elsewhere. Anyone not in a role by the end of the third phase would be laid off with a severance package. We’re nearing the end of the third phase now.

    Thanks to this re-org, I am now on a new team and even though we aren’t supposed to call anything a “dream job”, that’s a good description of my new role. I’m excited about it, excited about the new team and manager, and see lots of opportunities to do some amazing things. Spots on this team were few and highly coveted. Great, right?

    Right. Except that work friends and colleagues/managers I respect are still without roles. I don’t feel like I can celebrate my new role or even talk about it much while others are scrambling for interviews in other departments or working on their resumes. We don’t even know for sure who is not placed since there have been no announcements and some people aren’t officially moving to their new roles yet for logistical reasons (so the online org charts aren’t accurate). Just this week I learned about four more colleagues who were not placed, and was shocked each time that they were considered expendable.

    Re-orgs are confusing enough as is. Re-orgs with layoffs just plain suck.

    2. Code Monkey, the SQL*

      All the sympathy! We had two rounds of layoffs recently. The first sucked, and a good friend of mine, who had been underemployed through no fault of their own, was fired. The second round was a total blindside, where the new management started insisting that a clause in the employee handbook for a different division was actually an overall policy, and that X people who hadn’t produced X amount were therefore firing-eligible.

      Now I’ve been reorged to head up a trendy new team, and the bigwigs are trumpeting, yet again, that green pastures and still waters are just around the next quarter. I’m dubious.

    3. RVA Cat*

      I can’t help but imagine this reorg as a game of musical chairs, but with people’s livelihoods at stake. :(

  112. Rookie Manager*

    I am furious today. My report (5 months in post) is trying to undermine me. I’ve been out the office for a couple of days; yesterday he made a peer stay an hour late due to “policy” that was completely wrong. He emailed one of our funders with information I had not approved as ready to be released, told them it was the final draft and didn’t copy me in. He has been gatekeeping the team admin, stopping others from giving her work. He called me at 4:30 when I was on a train, at 5pm he called HR and said he couldn’t get in touch with me (implied all day) and he needed emergency day off but he’d told collegues first thing he was going on leave… I could go on but I’m so mad and this is just today!

    121 is booked for 9am the day he returns.

    Any advice on dealing with people who try to undermine your authority at every turn? Please help!!

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Whoa. This is all really egregious. If this is a pattern, I don’t think he’s going to change and you need to fire him.

    2. Snark*

      I get the impression you’re in the UK, so it may not be as simple as just firing him, though that’s what I think you should do.

      I think a really blunt general talk needs to happen, where you say something like, “You’ve started to exhibit a general trend of arrogating to yourself a management role, including approving for release drafts I have not approved, policing coworkers’ schedules, and managing what work our admin is given. All of those exceeded your actual level of responsibility and trust, and all of those were completely unacceptable. You are not a manager, and when you’ve attempted to act as one, you’ve made significant mistakes, including undermining us with our funders. Starting now, I need you to be crystal clear that you do not have the authority to approve and submit drafts, manage your peers’ workflow, or otherwise act as a decision-maker, and if you err, err on the side of assuming you need to defer a decision to me.”

      I’d address the shiftiness around his leave-taking separately, but that also needs to be addressed.

      1. Bagpuss*

        If he has only been employed for 5 months then even in the UK he can be dismissed for any non-discriminatory reason.
        Rookie, I am not clear whether you have already addressed this behaviour with him, but if not, I would do so an be really explicit:
        e.g.
        “I am concerned that you are making a lot of errors, specifically – [examples]. – I am concerned that you are not clear about your role and the boundaries. I need to be very clear that several of the things you have done are serious disciplinary issues.
        For instance, you had no authority to send [document] send it to Funder, and you misled them by stating it was a final draft and by implying that I had authorised it. The fact that you failed to copy me, your manager, in is particularly concerning, as even if it had been appropriate for you to send that information out, it is the kind of thing which I need to be in the loop on as I have responsibility for it.” Then tell him what he has to do in future (e.g. not send anything out without coping you in, and not send anything to funders without your explicit approval, or as appropriate)
        With regard to his behaviour to staff I would be explicit. “You have no authority to tell [name] or other co-workers whether or not they can leave. You are not a manager and it is not your responsibility to police your co-workers. In future, if you are concerned about something of that kind, speak to me and I will take any necessary action”. (if there is a policy which means something couldn’t wait, such as a minimum staffing requirement, then tell him who to contact for advice if you are not available, whether that is HR, or another manager. And tell them what you have told him, and why) .

        same with the Admin. Speak to the Admin, make sure that *she* knows he has no authority to tell her not to accept work from others, and ask her to let you know if she has any issues. You can frame it as ‘checking in that she is not over burdened and that she is clear about how she should prioritise work, and to make clear that she should refer to you if finds herself being told to do things differently.

        Tell him that you have given her her instructions, and that her role is as TEAM admin, his work does not take precedence over anyone else’s and that it is Admin’s role, not his, to raise any issues if she feels that anyone is asking her to do work which doesn’t properly fall into her remit, or of she is having any issues with prioritising.

        It may also be worthwhile reviewing with everyone what the process/policy is – it sounds as though other coworkers may be under the impression that he does have some authority, so reiterating that the process is (say) Team Admin does work for [list of people] and that it is done in the order it is sent to her [or whatever the arrangement is]

        I would be very clear that you are giving him instructions not suggestions and that formal disciplinary action may follow if he is not abl to improve his performance.

    3. neverjaunty*

      Fire him, although I suppose you could give him a serious “WTF is going on and this is unacceptable” talk first.

    4. Rookie Manager*

      Thanks Everyone, I was feeling so angry earlier but a suprise early finish/dinner and movie with the bf helped!

      Anyway, some great scripts here that I will be utalising in that 121 next week. My thought at the moment is he has another 4 weeks in his probabtion. Give a WTF talk next week and chance to improve at the end of the month it can be fire/extend probation or pass(unlikely!). I plan to fill my manager in on Monday as I wouldn’t put it passed him to email/phone her to complain and I want everything done properly.

      He has an air of authority/this is how it should be that makes others think they missed something because he is so sure of it. The person who stayed late and the admin are now fully briefed that their instructions come from me. I also found out that he said something yesterday when I was out like; ‘what does RM even do all day’!

      Again, thank you for script ideas and validating that I wasn’t overreacting by being furious! You leave the office for 48 hours…

  113. Wombats for All*

    I have a question about resumes. I work in academia and students often ask me for help with their resumes. I’m seeing more and more with a ‘career objective’. They all insist it different from a regular objective and seem to feel it’s super necessary. They also include a skills summary. Is this a new trend? Has anyone in hiring seen this?

    For the record I’m not sure where they are getting this. Probably online somewhere. Career Services is just as baffled by it as I am.

    1. CAA*

      Skills sections are very common in tech and I assume in other STEM disciplines. They are useful, because many people have skills they haven’t used in their jobs, and/or they have a lot of jobs where they’ve used a variety of skills and the one I need might be near the bottom of page 2 where I could miss it. If students are going to have a skills section, then it should be short and they need to make sure the skills are truly things they have expertise in and are relevant to the jobs they’re applying for. I.e. a software developer should list the various programming languages he knows well, but he should not list that he knows how to use Outlook and Word.

      I think putting a Career Objective on a resume can only hurt the applicant. If she states an objective that my job is not going to help her achieve, then I can only conclude that she would not want this position so there’s no reason to bother interviewing her. Also, at most companies, managers pass resumes around and try to fit them into multiple different openings, so even if she modifies the objective to conform to the position she’s currently applying for, she may still be ruling herself out from consideration for other openings at that company.

  114. Yolo*

    What do people (mostly of interest to those who work in STEM, I’d guess) think about this “Instagram won’t solve inequality” article? http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6381/1294.full
    It’s causing a bit of a furor on twitter.

    The gist is that a graduate student in a STEM field has identified a colleague who uses social media to share both “glam” and science-related photos in the same feed, gaining popularity as a science communicator and setting a platform for future non-academic jobs in that field.

    But the article sounds very dismissive of the social media-using student, and apparently there are racial dynamics at play where the person being critiqued is at a disadvantaged intersection of identities in the first place, while the person making the critique has an absurdly mainstream platform from which to call the social media-using student frivolous and unserious.

    Thoughts? Sounds like a crappy school/workplace dynamic at the very least.

    1. Yolo*

      Sorry I slightly misrepresented the original article: the writer is trying to make the point that science shouldn’t need to be presented alongside “glam” photos to be an option considered acceptable for girls/women. But definitely implies that doing so makes science and those who use social media to promote science seem frivolous/unserious.

    2. Simone R*

      Yeah, I saw that on Twitter as well. There were moments in the article where I thought the author was heading in a direction of a good point and then did a complete 180. It also seemed weird to call out that one student throughout the piece! There many science communicators on Twitter/Instagram etc, why write a whole thing about one person you are upset about and then vaguely try to generalize it?

    3. Murphy*

      Scientists (male or female) are people too. They have other interests. I don’t see how someone’s personal Instagram can’t represent a balanced person with varied interests.

      Really, this reads like internalized misogyny to me, because it’s characterizing “female” interests as bad or frivolous.

      I wonder whether our efforts should instead be directed toward advocating for policy changes at institutional and governmental levels.

      Why not both? Why not let female scientists be people too and also advocate for policy change?

      1. Elizabeth H.*

        I have a mixed reaction toward this, the idea that stereotypically feminine interests such as clothes and makeup, and a feminine self-presentation including “pretty selfies,” emojis, and the type of language and slang women and girls use on Instagram, are being characterized as bad or frivolous.

        The article writer says “These researchers assert themselves as scientists who don’t fit the stereotypes that are typically applied to women in the field. They are not boring or unfashionable. Instead, their posts demonstrate that they’re interested in clothes and makeup, that they’re physically active, and that they are attractive romantic partners. By visibly contradicting stereotypes about female scientists, it is clear that they hope to inspire girls to pursue science and to encourage female scientists to showcase their femininity in our male-dominated work spaces.”

        I guess my worry is that this Instagram media is just focusing on a DIFFERENT stereotype of women in the field? I like the idea of representing one’s whole self in Instagram. And I get that if you are trying to cultivate an Instagram following and “personal brand” and your goal is to reach a wide audience with a message, you will probably double down on your personality/identify yourself as a type, more than you would if you were just posting stuff you think your friends will like.

        I guess my ultimate take is that I feel like “Women scientists can be into traditionally feminine things too!” is a point that can and should be made but I’d prefer it not be the sole message from someone who is trying to be a public face for women in the sciences. Most of the women scientists I know in real life have a pretty wide variety of interests; many of them have interests that are conventionally feminine – wear makeup, wear feminine clothing rather than more gender-neutral clothing. I live in Cambridge MA which is biotech heavy so I know a pretty wide range of women who work in this area. I feel like the spectrum of women scientists in terms of having other interests/hobbies/self-presentation/etc. that are coded as “feminine” (such as knitting, baking, wearing feminine clothing) vs. having interests that are more gender neutral or not particularly associated with femininity (such as video games, coding, wearing gender neutral clothing like jeans and t-shirts, no makeup) is about the same as with the women I know who don’t work in science or engineering.

        Long comment . . . even though I didn’t love the article it was definitely thought provoking!

        1. Murphy*

          I don’t think that is the sole message on these accounts. I’m not an Instagram user, but I’m looking at Science Sam’s instagram now, and she has a lot of actual science content on there.

          The author says “Time spent on Instagram is time away from research, and this affects women in science more than men.” She might not be wrong about the second part, but research not communicated is research not done. The communication aspect is important as well.

    4. DoctorateStrange*

      I found the whole article snippy and petty, in all honesty, especially as they’re focusing on one person in particular, who, really, doesn’t seem harmful. It feels like they went after her for just existing and having been recognized by their school newsletter.

      I would have been more open to hearing about looksism in STEM (which I think is what the author was trying to get at, honestly the whole article felt aimless to me) without, you know, getting after a student that is working hard while she looks a certain way.

      1. DoctorateStrange*

        And adding that as an Arab Latina, I am annoyed that it is a white woman going after a Middle Eastern woman over this.

      2. Hmm*

        Yeah, I can’t believe they seriously put an article of one PhD student critiquing another PhD student’s *Instagram* in Science. This is insane, she’s seriously critiquing her *for who she is* outside of her job, because obviously *that’s what she puts on Instagram*. She has a right to have fun with her Instagram and get into it as much as she wants, this is ridiculous.

        1. Hmm*

          Thinking about it more, I suspect I’m missing some of the larger context here, because I haven’t been paying attention to these instagrams. But I think that the author doesn’t give us that larger context either, and that focusing on this one person and the author’s feelings (realizing she isn’t bitter? really?) really makes this sound a lot more catty than it should, considering it’s at least a somewhat interesting idea.

          1. DoctorateStrange*

            The writer of that terrible piece wrote this fauxpology to Samantha Yammine on Twitter: “I want to apologize for singling you out in my essay Samantha. I am sorry for any grief this has caused you or may cause you in the future.”

            I’m not impressed how she’s distancing from she actually did that caused all this in the first and going into her Twitter, she’s still defensive over what she wrote.

            1. Yolo*

              Yeah, weasel-words like “if” or “any” don’t belong in an apology when it’s very obvious that one’s behavior has clearly created grief or offense.

            2. Hmm*

              Personally, I think real apologies come via email or phone or some way that *isn’t* about letting others know you apologized. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more this bothers me – it’s a lot of hate for one PhD student’s Instagram.

    5. Elizabeth H.*

      I found the article really confusingly and poorly written. I also think the author missed making the GLARING point that this type of Instagram media reflects the fact that in order to be professionally appealing, women have to be attractive and fit in addition to being good at their jobs.

  115. Foreign Octopus*

    I wanted to update you all on the situation I had at work last week with my ESL student who used the n-word when describing black people.

    Thanks to the brilliant support of everyone who commented, I felt a better understanding of what I had to do and how to go about doing it. I did feel ashamed at the end of that lesson that I hadn’t addressed it in the moment beyond telling him that we don’t use that word, and so I knew that I had to do a better job this time around.

    I used the script that Parenthetically gave me almost word for word:

    “I was thinking about you using the n-word in our last lesson and I wanted to bring it up again because it’s important that I emphasize how incredibly offensive and unacceptable that word is for you to say — in fact, I won’t hear it being used at all. There isn’t a context you’ll ever be in where it will be ok for you to say that word.”

    And it was great!

    I was calm and collected and I jumped straight into it and explained that it was an atomic bomb of a word (thanks, Snark, for that language) and that he could just delete it from is vocabulary because he would never, ever need to use it. We then spent a good portion of the lesson talking about how difficult it was to understand the meaning of controversial words in our second languages, and I told him how I once accidentally insulted a bartender when I used a horribly rude word in Spanish that means dirty pig, more or less (but stronger), instead of the name of a particular wine that was very close to it pronunciation wise.

    I feel that he definitely understood it’s not a word that he can use and I’m happy that I was able to deal with the situation.

    However, I won’t be continuing with him as a student. Not for the n-word usage, which I now believe was a linguistic misunderstanding, but because he is constantly 10-20 minutes late, smokes during the class, and checks his phone while we’re talking.

    Thanks to everyone who helped out and who commented. I really couldn’t have done it without you!

    2. Snark*

      Glad it went well, but also glad you didn’t keep him on as a student – the smoking and phone-checking are super disrespectful.

    4. Plague of frogs*

      I actually was thinking about this during the week and wondering how it went. Thank you for the update! I am really impressed that you handled it so well. Another stake in the heart of, “Of course we can be racist when it’s just us.”

    5. Parenthetically*

      Ack, this is great stuff, Octopus, all the internet high fives for your outstanding awesomeness.

  116. Ambivalent*

    How to gently push back on slightly rude behavior by colleagues ? My workplace sprawls across multiple buildings that take 5-15 min to walk between. Typically when you ask another group for “help” you schedule the meeting in their office or conference room in their building. We have a fairly flat hierarchy. Help for other departments is expected but not enforced, the culture of our work gives us all a lot of leeway in deciding what projects to take on. I’ve noticed that there are a few people who I work with, who always schedule the meetings in their building, even when they are asking me for help. When these people are clearly several levels under me in hierarchy (like intern) I have felt comfortable asking them nicely that I would prefer to meet in my own building, and they have complied. But with people at the same level, I feel like it sounds petty. I am usually ok to do it the first time, but after the second time I start to get annoyed. I have tried gentle hints, and with some people it just doesn’t work (and I don’t want to have to make excuses, like that I have another meeting immediately after, unless it’s true). How to do deal with mild rudeness from colleagues in a tactful way?

    1. Bagpuss*

      Next time it happens, respond to say “I can’t come to you, but am happy to schedule the meeting in this building at the time you suggested, so I can help out”
      Or in person, mention what you have said here – that most people recognise that if you are asking for help, you are asking for a favour, so it is considered polite to ensure that any inconvenience falls on the person offering help, not the person providing it, and suggest that moving forwards, they schedule meetings where they are asking for help, in the building of the person they re asking, or, if there is a reason why that is not practical, explain that when they send the scheduling request.

      I think you can frame it not as “you are being rude” but “you may not have noticed this is a thing, and it will help you get along better”

    2. Anony*

      Another option is to take over scheduling the meetings after they ask you for help. Just suggest the time and place that works best for you and see what they say.

  117. MissDisplaced*

    Marketing / Creative People
    What do you find is a typical timeframe to route copy and design approvals?

    I work in a non-regulated consumer industry (understandably things like pharma and chem take much longer) at a large company. These are typical brochures/flyers, email examples of marketing collateral and not new and/or things that might be considered “controversial” in nature such as press releases that require extensive executive or legal reviews.
    Where I’m working now, this process seems to take 8 weeks or more for even the most simple marketing email or content, and often up to 4 weeks review time for something as simple as a social media post series. I’ve never had it take that long anywhere else I’ve worked at.

    1. EB*

      I’m not going to be helpful here but WOW, that seems insane. I’m a designer that works in a very fast-paced industry and on average I have one week to start and finish projects. I can’t imagine that kind of timeline for anything!

    2. Crylo Ren*

      It’s been really dependent on the culture of my particular workplace, buuuut 8 weeks does seem like a LOT!
      The longest I’ve dealt with was around 12 business days for an email and it kind of made sense for that environment (e-Commerce, there were a lot of different variations of the email and different elements that needed to be checked).

      Where I’m at now, emails take as few as 1-2 business days, but more often than not I’m usually able to get same-day approval.

    3. Mad Woman*

      Semi-regulated (higher ed), bureaucratic org – and it doesn’t take that long. Even when I had pharma clients, the actual “review” took 2 weeks max (they had a regularly scheduled marketing review meeting) and then obviously the loop of revisions took longer.

      For my current org, it usually takes maybe a week for approvals and then 2-3 weeks for a finished project.

    4. JS*

      I worked at an agency and we worked with clients in a bunch of industries. The length of the process depending a lot on (1) our client contact — whether or not they could hustle / had power in their company; (2) the industry (government took forever, healthcare took a while, beverages was pretty fast); (3) our own staffing levels and whether we could get back to them right away or if it had to go back into the work queue.

      For us, less than a week was great, 2 weeks was acceptable, 4 weeks was not desirable but not uncommon, 8 to 12 weeks was depressing (I’m looking at you, government). I would guess the average for us was about 3-4 weeks, even though we wish we could have made it faster.

      Sometimes the process for us was long because a project had been put on hold by the client or there was some internal drama on their end and they never told us.

    5. MissDissplaced*

      Thanks everyone for the input. I’m going mad with such long approval times, but this seems to be the norm and I’m being treated like I’m the “pushy” one for trying to speed up this dysfunctional marketing department.
      But I’ve never had most things take longer than 3 weeks unless there were undue problems (like a hold).
      It just boggles my mind how freakin slow it all is.

      1. JS*

        In my current role, we also have a dysfunctional marketing department, and they’re horrifically slow. It’s a mix of a micromanaging department head, lack of fixed priorities, confusion about internal review, workloads badly managed, etc. etc. So even though it’s “normal” for them to take long, that doesn’t mean they couldn’t be faster. But probably your ability to fix a dysfunctional marketing department is limited.

        You might ask them to help you understand what the timeline for a (specific) brochure is, and what are some hurdles they face normally, and whether there’s anything you can do to help them.

        Maybe they spend a lot of time searching through their disorganized folders to find a logo. Then you might just send the logos along with the copy or the request, etc. Little things like that. Or maybe they’re spending a lot of time emailing back and forth with the printer to figure out what the exact printing specifications are; you could keep common specifications on hand and send it along like the logos.

        This can be dangerous, if the help you’re offering is vague, because they might suck you into their dysfunction. But the goal is really to see if there are any variables that you can actually impact.

        Good luck!!

  118. Trillion*

    I’ve been dying for this thread so I could tell you guys the saga of Bad Teapots Inc.

    I’ve been interviewing with lots of companies. Bad Teapots seemed like a top contender. They are implementing a new software that I specialize in, and they are doing it VERY FAST TOO FAST. And the team doing it is too small. But there are many great things about the company: very laid back office, beer fridges, catered meals every day, cool people.

    Ultimately after 6 interviews, I figured out that I can’t work there. I accepted a job offer from place #2 instead. But a few hours later Bad Teapots calls to offer a job. I turn it down before they even get the chance to tell me the comp (I knew it would be a stupidly high amount of money and I didn’t need the temptation). The recruiter is clearly distressed.

    The next day, the make a friend of mine who has worked there for a few weeks call to talk to me about the position (she has the integrity not to talk me INTO the job. She was just calling because she was told to.)

    The next day, the hiring manager calls me to try to talk me into the job. First he tries to guilt me into it (“I guess we have to start our search from the beginning”), then tries to tell me how my fears about the job (horrible long hours mostly) aren’t founded. Ultimately he ends up telling me if something changes, to give him a call.

    If they call or email again, I’m not answering. Maybe if they weren’t such a garbage company, they wouldn’t have such trouble finding a candidate. Good luck to you, Bad Teapots, Inc.

    1. Anon Accountant*

      I’d consider blocking their number from my phone if you choose to not hear from them again. You are getting confirmation you made the right choice in turning them down. They tried to guilt you into taking the job? Red flag.

      1. Trillion*

        There was a time in my life where I couldn’t imagine turning down any honest job offer over $50k if I was unhappy in my current position.

        But now I truly understand what they mean by “you’re interviewing them just as they’re interviewing you.”

        1. Anon Accountant*

          Completely understand. It’s a 2 way match and it’s best to know before accepting an offer if it won’t work out.

    2. neverjaunty*

      Wow. Good on you for dodging that one! I mean, really – trying to guilt you into changing your mind because they didn’t do a job search appropriately? Whatever, Bad Teapots.

      1. Marthooh*

        Long-suffering sigh. “I guess we have to start our search from the beginning.” Sniff.

        “Uh… I guess so.”

        “But we have beer fridges!”

    3. J.B.*

      SIX interviews? Gee, if they cut it down to 2 they could interview 3 times as many candidates!

    4. RVA Cat*

      I keep going back to the beer fridges, because they sort of explain this level of Coder Bro craziness.

      1. Trillion*

        Yeah, exactly. Like someone explained it to me once: if we feed you, booze you, and give you places to nap, why do you feel the need to go home? Everything you need is here.

    5. CG*

      Were there other candidates in their process? If so, then how do they have to start their process over? Either they did six interviews to torture you, or they had other candidates who they legitimately thought they might hire for FIVE WHOLE INTERVIEW JFC THAT IS TOO MANY

      1. Trillion*

        Nope, apparently I was the only one this time. They’ve been trying to fill that spot for a long time, though, so I know they’ve interviewed others in the past (just not in this round).

  119. NoGhosting*

    What is the scariest thing that’s happened to you at work? (I know this was a thread a while ago but I loved reading them so much I just want to revisit it again!)

    1. CTT*

      Stuck in an elevator for 20 minutes! I understand that time-wise that is not that bad, but I was legit terrified. I had always thought I would be okay if I was on a stuck elevator because I’m not claustrophobic. What I did not realize is that when an elevator stops unexpectedly (or at least in my case), the elevator then suddenly drops about 5 feet. I was almost crying when I got on the little phone to call for help. Luckily it didn’t drop anymore after that, but I had just randomly been told a few days before that you should lie down when stuck in an elevator because if it suddenly starts, you could fall down and hurt yourself (the person telling me this had sprained her ankle in that situation). I lied down but then immediately felt way more nervous because it felt like I had just laid down to wait for death. So I just sat on the floor and listened to a podcast I had thankfully already downloaded. 1/10 rating, would not be stuck again.

      1. NoGhosting*

        This is my worst fear! I DIDNT KNOW THEY DROPPED 5 FEET!!! That’s way worse than I ever imagined. I almost just started crying for you.

        1. CTT*

          Right?!? Again, this may have just been the particularities of this elevator – it was like it was trying to get to my floor and then decided “Eh screw it, I don’t feel like going that high *plop*”

      2. CleverGirl*

        lying down seems… weird? Sitting down would keep you from falling just as well, and you wouldn’t be lying on a dirty floor that the bottoms of people’s gross shoes have been all over.

      3. Tardigrade*

        I was going to explain the time I got stuck for 30 min in the printer room, which was mostly just embarrassing, but this is galacticly worse.

      4. rocklobstah*

        I got stuck in an elevator at work once too. I am a bit claustrophobic and I Also had to use the restroom. Very long 15 minutes that was.

      5. nep*

        Whoa — 20 minutes stuck in an elevator. That would seem like an eternity. I get short of breath just thinking about it.

    2. Mrs. Fenris*

      You mean the physically scariest? That would have to be the time I greeted a patient, a large dog that I had known since she was a tiny puppy. I crouched down and said, “Hey, there’s my girl! Come here!” She trotted happily over, licked my face, and instantly bared all her teeth and tried to remove my face. Her very strong owner instantly pulled on her leash or I would not currently have a face. This happened in 1997 and I am still afraid of female dogs of that breed.

    3. Not Today Satan*

      I worked in direct social service and was assaulted (although no contact was made) by a client. =\

    4. Pollygrammer*

      Nothing compared to a lot of people’s scary experiences, but the active shooter drills we have to do a couple times a year really unsettle me.

    5. Margali*

      Finding out THREE DAYS before our annual company dinner (that I organize) that the restaurant had us scheduled for the FOLLOWING week. (This despite many emails with the correct date in the subject line.) Fortunately, they were able to have everything ready for us on time and everyone had a really great time. I told my husband as we were driving there that my stomach was in knots because I couldn’t stop thinking about what it would have been like if I had not found out, and had just showed up and found out 30 minutes before the other 98 people were showing up.

    6. Super Duper Anonymous*

      We had an improvised explosive device set off at our building (luckily at a time when nobody was there and not a well-made one so it didn’t do that much damage) and they didn’t catch the guy right away so we had to come to work feeling paranoid for a little while. This was after other suspicious things had been left at our building that required the bomb squad robot to remove them (they turned out to be harmless but they had to use precautions in case).

    7. Elizabeth West*

      The day OldExjob got hit by a tornado. I wrote a blog post about it (an old crappy post, LOL–“8th”? Really? I should go back and edit it). https://aelizabethwest.com/2010/05/01/duck-and-cover/. The May 2009 Southern Midwest derecho has a Wikipedia page. The link is included at the end of my post, but you can google it.

      That storm was super scary. I’ve never been in a hurricane, which I imagine is probably worse, but daaaaaaaamn.
      I’ve lived in the area most of my life and have been through tons of severe storms and tornado warnings. This was the first time I’ve ever been in one that actually hit a location where I was physically present. I DID NOT LIKE IT.

      Some things not in the post:
      –Literally a minute after the tornado passed, some guy came in with business cards for a roofing business. He was out IN a flippin’ derecho using the storm to get clients. He was really smarmy about it, too. My boss laughed in his face.
      –Also not long after, a dude came in to fill out a job application for a shop position because he really needed a job. He was not smarmy–he apologized for bothering us since we were obviously dealing with a mess. We hired him.
      –We had a dump truck. The facilities assistant was in it, on the road coming back to the plant, and got caught in the tornado. He said it lifted up the truck’s back wheels and he had never been so scared in his life.
      –Power was out all day but the phone was not. Clients kept calling to ask why they couldn’t fax. When I told them, they said ohhh is everyone okay, that’s awful, etc. One person said flatly, “Oh. Well, when can I fax my quote then?” :P
      –The sign letters that got sucked off the building? Nobody ever found them. Not surprising, since one time a tornado hit a town fifty miles away and the storm system dropped debris in our yards all the way over here.

      1. NoGhosting*

        “Excuse me Miss but I see you are in the need of a new roof. Well, boy, do I sure have the thing for you.” smh, who even does that.

    8. Former Admin Turned Project Manager*

      Probably my scariest was when I was the notetaker for an offsite meeting (hotel about a block from my office) and someone from the hotel told us we were not to leave the building because there was an active shooter hitting (seemingly) random locations in town. That was day one of the Beltway Sniper experience, and I was a bit on edge anyway based on being in my second trimester of my final pregnancy.

    9. CheeryO*

      My coworker fell off a cliff and left me a cryptic voicemail about having an emergency, which I missed because I was driving but listened to on the walk back into the office. Got inside and found everyone huddled around looking nervous and was positive for a minute that he had died and it was my fault for missing the voicemail. Luckily he “only” shattered his ankle, but I still feel awful for missing his call since I had been nearby and could have helped him.

    10. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

      Honestly, the scariest thing that ever happened to me at work was 9/11. I worked in the building across the street from the World Trade Center so I saw enough and too much and didn’t know if our building would be next.

    11. FormerConstructionWorker*

      I used to do work at remote construction sites in the middle of the wilderness for electrical/internet infrastructure, and we had a specific type of equipment that was setup on a steep rocky hill. It had to be flown in via helicopter, and had a mechanism of sorts it was “latched” onto the hill with.

      And that mechanism failed. Miraculously, none of us were downhill from the equipment at the time, but if it had hit any of us, we certainly would have died. Probably immediately, but even so, we were a hundred miles from the nearest major hospital, so even if we had survived the impact, I doubt it would’ve made a difference.

    12. Should be working and not reading*

      I once worked with a bunch of contractors in a common site. One person had an issue with a stalking ex, and for some reason that I don’t remember, thought stalking ex was going to show up at work. Another coworker decided to bring in a handgun in case stalking ex showed up. He walked around all day with it shoved into the back of his pants.

      I figured that he would either shoot himself in the ass or shoot one of us, so I decided to work from home the rest of the day.

    13. Earthwalker*

      A remote coworker told my boss that I had completely screwed up a big project and needed to be taken off it. The boss took me into the back of the data center far away from other workers, where the big fans were noisy, and vented his anger so loudly and vehemently that I was very afraid that he was about to hit me. When I tried to tell him that I hadn’t done what he’d been told he got red and hollered, “SHUT UP! I don’t want to hear it!” I was sitting there thinking more about what self defense tactics I could use without being fired than about the project. It turned out later that it was all a mistake. The remote coworker had confused me with a guy who had been taken off the project a few weeks before, the person who I had been assigned to replace, and even he hadn’t done as badly as she told the boss I had done. It was a lesson for me, though: if the boss is peeved, try to get bawled out somewhere that’s private *but not too private.*

    14. Jillociraptor*

      When I worked at a university, my building was routinely locked down due to protests. This wasn’t usually scary in any way, just a bunch of students, union members, and/or community members convening and chanting or speaking in front of the building. But once, several students broke through the barricade and rushed into the building. Their goal was to occupy the building until their demands were met. It was scary because the students were definitely on a rampage toward whatever “administration” person they could find, AND because I was so scared that our (armed) security would overreact and harm one of our students. It was also not great to see a bunch of students getting handcuffed and processed outside my door. Tough stuff to see for someone who works in student services.

      We also had an extremely destructive altercation between the followers of an alt-right provacateur and local antifa. Buildings and trash cans were set on fire, lots of injuries, bad press, lots of “concerned taxpayers” calling to berate my boss through whoever might have the bad luck of answering the phone, threatening phone calls and messages. Then the weeks of heavy police presence, which was traumatizing for me and I’m a chubby White lady getting ma’amed all the time by police; can’t imagine how traumatic it was for undocumented folks, people of color, people with disabilities, and other marginalized folks.

      On a lighter note, in a previous job, we all got trapped on the top floor of a hotel while we were putting on a conference. About 20 staff were working well into the night to finish up assembling welcome bags and stuff like that in our staging room. The elevators broke down (the hotel was frankly a huge disaster generally, so this was just icing on the cake) and hotel management wouldn’t let us leave the top floor by stairs or the freight elevator. We were on the phone with our chief counsel, poor woman, looking at our legal rights because we were functionally being held against our will by the hotel. The combination of it being 4am + the stress of the conference made us all a little punchy, and some of the interactions between our staff and the hotel are honestly just iconic in their sass and shade. In my exhaustion-slash-hopped-up-on-caffeine-addled brain, I was about 80% sure I was going to die up there on the 24th or whatever floor, but we survived and put on a great conference!

        1. Jillociraptor*

          I’m not sure, but I have a hypothesis. They were just newly open to the public and I think their staircase may not have been fully compliant/safe as a mode of egress yet, so I wonder if they were trying to keep us from seeing something not on the up and up.

          The whole hotel was a mess: they weren’t fully hooked up to the electrical grid so we kept losing power, they were totally understaffed, the elevator issues… it wasn’t quite an adventure.

    15. nep*

      One of the scariest — being detained in a relatively secluded place for an hour or so by two soldiers (who’d been drinking — and it was around 9am) while out reporting in one of the West African countries where I lived for a time. Of course the first thought and greatest fear was of sexual assault; fortunately for me they were not violent.

    16. Kuododi*

      I was getting ready to facilitate an adolescent addiction recovery group when one of my clients decided to pull a big honking knife and threaten me with it. I managed to talk this person off the ledge and into surrendering the knife. Needless to say, at my next martial arts class I asked my Sensei to work with me on knife disarming techniques.

    17. Brunch with Sylvia*

      I escorted a former patient who was intoxicated and suicidal down to our hospital’s psych ER. He was very agreeable to come along but when we stepped inside a small room to do an intake, he was told that he was going to be held for 72 hours, the pt charged at me. Staff pushed me out of the back door but later in the day two uniformed police officers came to present to me a report of all that the patient said he was going to do to me and I was taken to the courthouse get an emergency restraining order.

  120. Anon Accountant*

    I’ve been job searching for 18 months, applied to 85 jobs, had 17 interviews and just 1 crappy offer. I’ve had my resume reviewed, customize cover letters, my references are good and have practiced interviews. I had someone check my references just to see if that was the problem and they were good. What else can I do? Any feedback or suggestions are welcome.

    2. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

      Not much else you can do except KNOW that you will get a job. I know it doesn’t seem like it now. But you will. You’ve gotten jobs before and you will this time. You Really Will.

    3. Namast'ay in Bed*

      It sounds like you’re doing everything right – the only thing I can think of is to increase your application volume. One offer out of 17 interviews maybe isn’t stellar, but getting 17 interviews out of 85 applications is a 20% success rate, which is really good! Spreading the numbers out evenly, you’re applying to just under five jobs a month, about one a week, which isn’t super high. I will add that I don’t know your situation – one application a week could be amazing if you have a lot going on (schedule-wise, mentally, etc), but since it sounds like you’re doing really good in every other aspect, I’d recommend upping your application rate and see if the other numbers follow!

      Absolutely sending hugs and good vibes your way, job hunting suuuuuuuuuuucks.

    5. nep*

      I feel you. I’m rooting for you. There is nothing quite like that sort of helplessness — when you know you’re doing all you can.
      You’re getting interviews — already a huge positive. I know it probably doesn’t feel like it right now.
      I can’t wait to read your post when you’ve landed a job. It will happen.
      Only tip I can offer — and it’s one I’ve got to tell myself each day — stick with it. Something’s got to give.

  121. Former Govt Contractor*

    Tell me about your raise (if any) you received this year. I got 2.5% and I’m disappointed. I read that the average raise nationwide last year was around 3%. What’s been your experience? Thanks.

    1. Trillion*

      For me: 2.75% this year, but never above a 3% in a corporate setting before that. Changing jobs has resulted in 6%-25% increases.

      It’s especially disappointing when you have access to the data for everyone’s raising in the whole company. I always try to avoid looking closely at the data, but sometimes I have to or I accidentally read something. I try to keep perspective (I don’t know as much about someone’s performance as my manager does; I know many people in my department are underpaid, so I can understand giving up a piece of my pie to help get them to a reasonable salary), but it’s still a little disheartening to know you’re on the low end of the spectrum.

      1. Former Govt Contractor*

        One thing that bothers me is the corporate tax rate was cut so drastically and I keep reading about all these other companies who are giving bonuses and other perks to their employees, but we’ve heard nothing about any of that, so I had hoped we’d see good raises. For context, I’m in my second year at a very large manufacturing company and I did get a small (1.5%) raise last year, after I’d only been here 5 months.

    2. Who the eff is Hank?*

      We are getting 2% COL raises this year, but that’s it. There’s a freeze on merit increases until further notice.

      1. Former Govt Contractor*

        I must say I’m feeling a little ungrateful at this point. The responses have certainly given me something to think about.

        1. Trillion*

          Nah, you’re allowed to feel disappointed. It’s utter trash when a company makes record profits, yet cuts raises below the rate of inflation.

    5. AnonGD*

      I got 2% last year. Was told it just wasn’t possible to get anything more due to the budget despite great performance. Have since found out a peer of mine in another department got a massive raise… so yeah, 2% and disappointed over here! (And also in the early stages of job searching)

    6. purple otter*

      A govt contractor friend of mine got a 3% raise this year because he pushed for it, and apparently his boss said others got 2.5%.

      Haven’t got my raise this year yet, but I suspect it’ll be 2.5-3% this year, mostly just a cost of living increase. The last successive years I got extremely high raises (over 5%) because I was a rockstar performer. This year a few things didn’t go so well so I’m not expecting anything beyond a COL increase.

      Friend and I both live in the DC suburbs.

    7. Anon for This*

      Mine was 3.5%. Raises in my organization range from 2% to as much as 5% (providing that there is no promotion involved).

    8. President Porpoise*

      I received a 10% raise, which is slightly low on my three year raise trend. But still massively high – especially since that brings me to 86K.

    9. Scubacat*

      What raise? My contract has no guarantee of a cost of living adjustment. Pay increases happen whenever the government decides to increase funding. Which is never. I think the last increase last year was 1%.

    10. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I only joined my organization two weeks before the FY end so I wasn’t eligible for a COL increase, but I can tell you it was pretty damn demoralizing to get a letter from the division head saying “We’ve had our second best year ever, outstanding performance from all of you, and in recognition for how hard you’ve worked we’re going to grant an exceptional raise”… it was 1%. Across the board, nothing higher for high performers. I pretty much decided that day to start looking for something else.

    11. Anon AF*

      No raise, because I got a promotion with 10% raise last year. I didn’t realize that made me ineligible for an increase this year :(

    12. Stranger than fiction*

      No raise for 3 years!
      We’re a small company that does not do reviews or yearly raises. I’ve had two in six years, but they’ both neen very generous, around 10 and 12%.
      We’ hit a sales slump and haven’t been able to have one lately. However, we did still get out bonus and the company continues to absorb the healthcare premium increases each year!

    13. Anonymous Ampersand*

      Ha. I work in the public sector in the UK. 1% pay rises for as long as I can remember (actually something like a decade).

    16. Windchime*

      I work for the State and we got 2% across the board. No merit raises. It’s better than nothing but it’s pretty tiny.

    17. Al Lo*

      Nothing this past year. 8% the year before, which was 2 years’ raises rolled into one (by agreement), so I basically got a bigger raise a year early, and then nothing this year. I’ll know soon what I’m looking at for this fall.

  122. Biff*

    I’m currently working with someone who is younger than me, and teaching me a new skill as they are leaving at the end of the month. I don’t want to armchair diagnose, but it’s pretty inarguable that they display some neuroatypical traits normally associated with classic autism in boys. (Maybe relevant, SO DO I.) Normally this is fine, dandy, whatever. I have an unusually high number of diagnosed “aspie” friends and I understand, generally, what’s happening, why it’s happening, and it doesn’t bug me. I can adjust.

    A couple of days ago, though, something set them off before our one-on-one training session (a situation I diffused, but not nearly soon enough,) I wasn’t paying enough attention to their mood, and the session went downhill at a TREMENDOUS pace, to the point that I decided we weren’t safe around the machinery and it was time to pack it up. I went home in a massive funk, and still feel bad.

    Here’s the thing, their primary coping mechanism is going to get them in trouble in life. (This is the voice of experience.) PREPARE FOR CRINGE. I HATE EVEN TYPING THIS. If a situation is awkward, uncomfortable, or strange, their preferred coping mechanism is to make strange noises, speak in funny voices, and make spastic hand flapping gestures. As in, they make it so awkward to deal with them that people sort of back off in utter confusion.

    I’m sort of the authority here, but not really. They’ve been at the company longer, and are far more skilled than I am in their own department. Can I and should I talk to them about this? If so… how, and when would be a good way to drop this in their lap. They are very spirited and I don’t want to crush that, especially not now that they’ve found a new job that appears to be a very good fit for them.

    1. Manders*

      Oof, I’m not sure there’s much you can do to guide this person in this case since they’re supposed to be the one training you. Your desire to help them is kind, and if you were their supervisor a conversation would definitely be in order, but the power dynamic here is already pretty weird.

      If things are escalating to the point that safety’s an issue or you aren’t able to get the training you need to use this potentially dangerous equipment, the next step is going to your supervisor and letting them know you’re concerned.

    2. AnotherJill*

      I don’t think that you have any standing to talk to them about it. And you likely wouldn’t be telling them anything that they haven’t heard before.

      Yes, they should get some help to work on developing less obvious coping mechanisms, but they need to come to that realization even if it happens the hard way.

  123. Qwertyuiop*

    I’ve talked about this before and don’t mean to sound like a broken record, but I really could use some advice.

    I work in a newly created position in a dysfunctional workplace. There is high turnover, whole departments have left because it got so bad, etc.

    I work with one other women, “Betsy”, who is an office mom. She’s been there forever and is hanging on until retirement. I think she’s funny and very sweet, albeit a bit quirky and cranky at times.

    I help Betsy out with tasks and she’ll give me things to do. She and I are in separate areas of the office, so I mostly go into her office. When I’m in there and people come in, they often only acknowledge her even though I’m standing right there- it’s “Hi Betsy!” even though I’m in there. Even if I help with something, it’s still, “Thanks, Betsy!”

    I don’t need the recognition, but I am really working my butt off and Betsy seems to get all of the recognition! I’m quiet and introverted, but I still talk to everyone and try to socialise. I know she’s been there for years and I’ve only been there for 8 months, but it still hurts.

    Is it too much to ask for a “Thanks, qwerty!” every once in a while?

    1. fposte*

      Nah, it’s not too much. But when they come in to Betsy’s office, can you just say “Hi, Jane!” first?

    3. Betsy*

      (I’m a different Betsy).

      I agree about clearly saying ‘Hi’ to Jane because perhaps it will eventually give her the message that you should be included in the conversation too.

      I think many workplaces have someone designated as the office golden person and they’re celebrated for everything. Many of these people are competent or high achievers, but not necessarily stronger than others. I feel like it’s a bit like dysfunctional family dynamics where one kid is positioned as the golden child even though the other children have talents too.

      There’s one guy in my department who isn’t golden boy but has been there the longest and treats it a bit like his personal fiefdom and definitely likes to give the students the impression that he’s the most important guy there (it helps that he’s much older than us and his age helps to reinforce this perceived status). However, I feel like I’ve been able to carve out my own niche, by taking on different projects and being assertive about my own ideas in meetings.

      Also, if you can make some friends at work that you’d feel comfortable to talk about this too, it might help? If there’s a strange dynamic and you face it on your own it can be frustrating and you wonder if it’s just you, but if you have a friend to blow off steam with and they can see the same issues, it can be very validating.

  124. agmat*

    My boss has asked me multiple times how he should code my time while I’m on maternity leave. I’m a state employee and we have an entire disability management office ego can help with this. That and a FAQs page he can refer to.

    He wants me to send him draft timesheets which I’m super annoyed with. I won’t actually know when my leave starts until I’m in labor. I can’t tell the future. And he has entire office at his disposal to help! How can I word some pushback so that he just handles it himself like he’s supposed to? I’ve already had to explain that I’m not signing in every two weeks to log my time myself, sorry don’t care that the new father coworker did that, this is no joke your responsibility!

    1. Reba*

      I know that “ego” is a typo but it is a bit apt for your boss right now.

      What about, “Boss, I’ve been in touch with the Disability Management office and they have told me they can handle all your questions now and while I’m away. The contact person is Wakeen [contact info].”

      Good luck with everything!

      1. agmat*

        Thank you for the simple working! That’s just what I need, no major justifications or allowing my annoyance to shine through.

  125. Annoyed anon*

    I met with the director of the company to talk about a form for work that needed to be complete. What was a serious work discussion became slightly odd/confusing when the director started saying, “Anon, look at me. Look here” and was pointing at his forehead.

    My manager was there and was just laughing, but it all felt condescending and….. not right?

    Ugh… they don’t pay me enough to put up with this cr*p.

    1. The New Wanderer*

      That’s the kind of thing I say to my son if he’s not looking at me (and therefore probably not listening). But he’s four. It is ridiculous to talk to another adult that way.

      And pointing at his forehead, not even his eyes? That’s really weird. I hope your manager was cringe-laughing because the director was being a jerk.

    2. NaoNao*

      How bizarre! I would be tempted to fix him with my most intense Christopher Walken Special stare with just a twinkle of evil intent in it for the rest of the meeting and then act all breezy and innocent if called out “What, you said look at you?”

  126. Anon lurker*

    My company just did my annual salary update, and I found out that my percentage increase was higher than one of my colleague’s who has the same job title as me. These are not merit-based, as far as I know, and I had not requested a raise or a more in-depth review. My salary was already a fair bit higher, as well, so it’s not like this was given as part of an effort to get everyone to the same level. Is is fair game to ask my (our) manager how the numbers are figured and if my raise was in line with others on the team? I definitely don’t want to reveal that my colleague and I compared notes, but the process is opaque (I’m pretty sure my manager doesn’t have final say in these matters) and I’m curious about how the system works.

    1. CAA*

      You can ask, but I’d start out with something like “I appreciate the raise, and I want you to know I’m not unhappy or asking for more; but I am really curious to know how the process works here and how the numbers were arrived at.” Realize that probably all of the previous conversations your manager has had about this with subordinates are with people who are unhappy. She shouldn’t be defensive about it, but sometimes the walls go up when you feel like you’re about to start yet another conversation with someone who wants more than you can give, so making it clear up front that this is not leading up to a request for a bigger raise can just start things off on the right foot.

      Your raise is almost certainly are merit based though. The way this usually works is that the manager gets a pool of money, which is some percentage of the department’s labor budget, and she then has to rank her direct reports and propose how much to increase everyone’s salary and provide a brief justification for each recommendation. After that, the amounts get modified by the next one or two levels of management to keep things fair across teams, and then approved by HR and/or the CFO before being communicated to employees. Even if you didn’t have a formal performance review, the ranking and justification are designed to float the people who merit the biggest increases to the top. In fact, most places I’ve worked have required that I turn in salary increase recommendations a month or so before we even do reviews, but they’re still based on merit.

  127. friday afternoon fever*

    First time conference tips, go! What to pack, what to wear (I’m female), what to expect, how to balance evening activities with being an introvert, anything else

    1. fposte*

      Travel knits; travel knits; afternoon naps or in-room quiet time. BYO water container. Stick to flat shoes, preferably cushiony ones.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Bring a cardigan or blazer. The temps in those rooms can seriously fluctuate.

      1. Ambpersand*

        Seconding this. The main hall might be sweltering from all those bodies, but break out sessions will be an arctic blast.

      2. The New Wanderer*

        Or you could get stuck under the A/C vent. That was ridiculous and it should have been a clue why those two seats were open in an otherwise crowded room.

        Bring a messenger bag unless you know the conference provides one.
        Bring business cards if you have them.
        Pack a power bar or snack – some conferences have mid-day breaks with food, others don’t.

    3. Ambpersand*

      Tip for handling your introverted nature- scope out some areas around the conference venue that you can sneak away to if you’re getting overwhelmed. I always get hyper aggressive when I’m overstimulated (it’s a bad combination), and it’s really helpful. Whether its walking around the venue with your headphones in or just finding a seat in the corner, make sure you’ve got an idea of where to go/what to do if you need to! Also, get good sleep (I take ear plugs and a sleep mask so I can sleep if I’m splitting a room with someone), stay hydrated, and don’t eat all the junk/fried foods- you’ll be going and going like the energizer bunny the whole time. It’ll make all the difference.

    4. periwinkle*

      Echoing the suggestion to bring cardigans/blazers and other layering clothes. Conference rooms seem to skew on the cool side, presumably to balance out all the body heat. The time of year is irrelevant; the coldest conference I ever attended was in late spring when the weather was quite lovely outside.

      Clothes: Don’t bring a new outfit for every day unless you really want to haul around a huge suitcase. Bring mix & match neutrals or just prepare to wear some stuff more than once. At most conferences, people won’t notice or care. Last month I spent 5 days at a conference and wore various combinations pulled from two pairs of dark trousers, three lightweight sweaters, and two big scarves. I wore the same ankle boots the entire time. I also pack a long-sleeve t-shirt to wear in the hotel room so I don’t mess up my nice sweaters.

      Activities: Well, that depends on your tolerance, energy level, etc. I generally skip the evening activities if I don’t know anyone at the conference. If I’m there with my colleagues, I’ll hang with them at dinner most nights but not the whole time. More social/extroverted types will mingle, but I’d rather grab some carryout to eat in the room while binging on Netflix.

      Sessions: Bring along some pens and maybe a notebook. Take business cards if you have them. It’s handy to have a lightweight bag to carry your stuff. I use a fairly light and small backpack (Mini Prospect Backpack from Timbuk2).

      Sessions, part 2: Many conferences now offer an app so you can read through session descriptions, see a map of the conference rooms, plan out what you want to attend, connect on social media, etc. If you can use it, use it.

      Sessions, part 3: If you’re tired, skip a session and go nap if you need to. It can be exhausting, especially if you’re introverted. Take care of yourself and you’ll be more engaged in the learning that goes on.

    5. Mimmy*

      Oh this is so timely because I’m about to register for a multi-day conference that takes place in June – I’ve been to conferences but not multi-day ones and never by myself. I too am introverted and prone to getting overstimulated.

      These tips all look very helpful; I may have to copy this thread because I’ll never remember lol.

  128. Phin*

    My assistant quit with no notice yesterday because I gave him some really minor feedback. From my conversation with him, it seemed like his reasons were all stuff he had never mentioned before. We had weekly check ins where I asked him how things were going, if he had any questions or concerns etc. and he was always really positive and never brought up anything that wasn’t working. I regularly told him what an awesome job he was doing and how much I appreciated his work. I thought we had a really good rapport and it was nice to find someone so hard-working and eager to learn. Apparently I was wrong, though, because he never communicated and let things build up into an “I quit!” moment.

    So my question is this: I have to re-hire his position. What kinds of questions can I ask potential candidates to discover whether they are good communicators, and whether or not they handle coaching and feedback well? Also, is there anything I can do differently to make sure my assistant feels appreciated and feels like they can communicate their needs? Thanks!

    1. fposte*

      Well, you can always ask “Tell me about a time when you were given corrective feedback. What were you told, and how did it affect your work?”

      But I’d also resist throwing too much effort into skating where the puck was. It’s a pretty common hiring tendency to overfocus on fixing the problem you just encountered, but it’s not usually something that’s worth a lot of energy. In the case you describe, I’d focus less on including that question in the interview and more on asking references about that. (And if you’re not checking references, that’s the big thing to change first.)

      1. Phin*

        Thanks, that’s really helpful. I guess I was blindsided by his response because it seemed like he was a really good fit, though there were some little things he needed to work on, and I’m afraid of making the same hiring mistake again.

          1. Reba*

            Although we’ve heard a number of stories on here about employees who abruptly flounce, I think it’s not a representative sample.

          1. Phin*

            Well, his attention to detail could have been better at times. And sometimes he was hesitant to make decisions. He knew what to do, but he second-guessed himself a lot.

      1. Phin*

        He said it made him realize he wasn’t a good fit. When I say minor feedback, I mean really minor, like “I totally understand why you’re doing it this way, but could you try this way? You’re doing such a great job!” I get the feeling he just internalized all feedback as criticism, but never communicated that.

    3. Irene Adler*

      Gee, you sound like you are sensitive to the needs of your reports. Seems to me there was some issue at your former employee’s end. But that could translate into issues finding the replacement. How will you address the job seeker’s question: “why did your prior employee quit?”

      Some folks coach job seekers to run from positions where the employer can’t give a “he took another job” or “he was promoted” type of response.
      Maybe ask them about how they envision communications to take place between the two of you, how they expect to bring up issues, problems and the like. See if you can have a whole conversation about boss-report communication expectations. And, if they ask, might be very transparent regarding the circumstances concerning the prior employee’s departure. Include that you are trying to learn from and avoid a repeat instance.

      1. Phin*

        It’s really important to me that the people who work for me feel valued. I’ve been in jobs where it felt like nobody gave a damn about me and I was just there to do the work nobody else wanted, and it sucks. This position in particular is super important because the work they take on allows me to focus on getting my own job done. If I were bogged down with the day to day stuff they manage, I could never get any big picture stuff done.

        So, yeah, those are some very good suggestions. Thank you. :)

    4. a-no*

      you could ask about preferred management styles? Like I know I work best with direct managers who do not beat around the bush as well as I function best with basically full autonomy over my work and decisions. If there is an issue, I expect to be told just like the onus is on me to tell my boss if I have an issue. I really bristle over people checking in on me constantly and asking what I’m doing, hows X doing, Hows Y doing repeatedly so I’m very upfront in interviews about that. I like guidance, I just don’t like justifying my day to my boss every day and having to ask permission to do simple things like order toilet paper (from a predetermined vendor, quantity and price, I just literally go ‘we need an order of it’ that my bosses had previously set up)

  129. Lily Evans*

    How do you make yourself work on projects with no actual deadline when it’s a project you really hate doing? I’m a major procrastinator to begin with (like I have serious trouble doing anything without an imminent deadline hanging over me), and my supervisor asked me to work on an open-ended ongoing project a little bit at a time. I don’t have a ton to do to begin with, and to be completely honest it’s led to me having some pretty lazy habits at work. There’s no real repercussions for not working on it, and I’ve tried setting myself fake deadlines and goals, but that doesn’t help. I’ve never understood how people are able to just sit down and get things done without a ticking clock hanging over their head. It always worked out okay in school because there were always due dates, and at my last job there were monthly check-ins with my supervisor which helped me keep on track, I’ve never had to manage my own time at work and I’m apparently terrible at it.

    1. someone else was using the same name*

      I always break those projects into smaller chunks. I will write on my to do list: work on project x for 30 minutes. If you break it into small chunks it’s easier to chip away, and I’m less likely to get distracted. This works well when you don’t have a hard deadline.

      1. Trillion*

        This is good advice. I’ll add: schedule blocks of time on your calendar dedicated to just that project. Try to get away from all distractions.

        Or set a timer for, say, 30 minutes. Work only on that project for 30 minutes. Having the timer there helps simulate that pressure from a deadline.

        Reward yourself after each successful time block. Whether that’s with a walk or a small piece of chocolate or something else that is actually a treat.

      2. Earthwalker*

        Me too. When I can’t start even one small chunk, it’s usually because there’s some problem with it that I’m resisting even thinking about. So I promise myself I won’t DO anything on the project today, just find the materials and write down the steps to begin working on tomorrow. That usually reveals what it is I’m worried about. What if I can’t find the information? What if I have to admit that I don’t know how to do something I should be able to do? What if I don’t know who to talk to? Just naming the problem and challenging myself to name at least one way to approach it is never anything as insurmountable as my inner procrastinator imagines. I often find that although I promised myself I only had to write down steps today and not actually begin work, I end up wanting to get on with it after all, once the sticking point is passed.

    2. Betsy*

      No advice, just my sympathies. I’m a bit the same. I wish I could magically just reappear as someone who doesn’t procrastinate.

    3. Marthooh*

      Pull your supervisor into the process to help you keep on track. Ask for regular meetings to report your progress and concerns. Ask for supervision – that’s her job, after all!

  130. Lois Lane*

    I’ve been wrestling with a personal and professional quandary lately and wanted to get advice from others in similar situations. I was lucky enough to break into my dream career field and work in it for 10-plus years before it imploded on me several years ago. When it became a question of when, not if, I was to be laid off, I reluctantly began to look elsewhere and was fortunate to find a similar job in a related field.

    New Job is a good gig overall. I’m making more money, the benefits are fantastic. I like the people I work with, etc… The problem? I really, really miss my old job. That job was my calling. It had purpose. It had meaning. While I work for an organization now that has a noble goal, my job itself lacks the same direct impact. Old Job was exciting and adrenaline-filled. New Job is slow-paced and can be boring at times. At Old Job, I had the chance to make an impact, to change lives, help people. At New Job, I often feel that I really don’t make any difference at all. I’ve been at New Job for several years now and I still grieve terribly for old job.

    I’m the kind of person whose job defines them. I want to have a job that has meaning, purpose and impact. I want a job that challenges me. Someone asked me recently what else I could imagine myself doing and I blurted out, “medical school.” At first I thought it was crazy. I’m nearing 40 and am still paying off student loans from grad school. But I’ve been thinking more and more about it the past few weeks and researching it and, well, it doesn’t seem that crazy after all. I would have to take out loans for tuition, but with some belt-tightening, we could get by on my spouse’s income. I’d be a student again in my 40s, but that doesn’t scare me. I was contemplating a PhD program before this anyway and had already taken a couple classes last year before officially enrolling in the program.

    Has anyone made a radically drastic mid-life career change? How did it go for you?

    1. Zennish*

      I went through a major job change last year that raised similar questions for me. My ultimate solution was to be grateful for the increased income, and take up meditation. In general, I’ve been focusing on worrying less about the future, and fixating less on the past, because the present is where I’m currently at. Of course, YMMV. :-)

    2. LawBee*

      I went to law school in my 30s. It worked out now but it definitely would have been easier with a second income!

      But if it’s what you want to do, and you’ve got the support to do it – go for it. We only live once.

      1. Fingers Crossed*

        I finished my Masters in Library science in December at the grand ole age of 41. I haven’t been actively job searching yet, since I have to complete my current work contract, but once that’s over, a new career is the plan.

    3. Namast'ay in Bed*

      The advice I always give when people are nervous about a big change taking so long to achieve is that the time will pass whether you do the thing or not. And maybe being a med student at 40 is older than the standard everyone thinks of, but let’s say you finish everything up at 50 – that’s still ~20+ years of working! Plenty of time to make a change worth it.

      …It doesn’t seem like these are concerns of yours but those are my two cents anyway :-)

      Best of luck!

    4. NaoNao*

      I’m strongly considering a change. I was in school and worked a patchwork of jobs including service (nanny, library page) and retail, and couldn’t WAIT to get to my desk job.
      8+ years in, I’ve reached the independent contributor ceiling and am o-v-e-r the corporate life.
      I faffed around looking for other lateral moves, thinking it was the company, but then I pulled back and really thought about my strengths, what I would do “for free” and what I loved and was passionate about.
      I have a side gig selling vintage clothing on etsy and do all the work there myself. That helped me sort of…turn over rocks I hadn’t considered to lead me to a potential change.
      I’ve found a very part time retail job in merchandising that I’m very excited about and am using that to “test the waters” to see if it’s truly a good match.
      So that would be my suggestion. I realize it’s not really super possible to go half way on medical school but can you, say, volunteer at a clinic? Audit a few classes or do informational interviews?
      I have heard some really inspiring stories (mostly from Oprah magazine, don’t @ me) about mid life career changes that worked out very well indeed.
      I think the best change is to something you love, fits your values, and you’re passionate about.

    5. ..Kat..*

      My suggestion, before you take on more debt, is to make sure that this is right for you. Can you shadow physicians, talk with them about the good and bad of their jobs? Make sure that this is a good move for you before you spend major money on it.

  131. Collie*

    Going to my first national conference next week and I’m really excited! I’m an introvert and planning to take plenty as-needed breaks. Also, the closest place I could get to stay to the convention center was about a mile away (eep) and we’re expecting a good bit of weather…

    Any advice? Generally, or as related to the info above.

    1. Ambpersand*

      Get lots of good sleep, try to avoid eating 100% junk food (pack your own snacks if you need to), and scope out some areas at the conference that you can step into for some quiet time. And have lots of fun!

    2. Betsy*

      I don’t know what the expectations are for attendance, but I would always be extremely tired as I’d attend every session I could and then all the conference dinners and coffees afterwards and other scheduled things. At very long conferences, I’d be a blathering wreck at the end of the week. It took me a while to realise that other people were a lot more judicious and selective about what to attend.

      1. Ambpersand*

        Yeah, this is a very good point. I’ve even been to national and other large conferences where I’ve skipped one or two sessions/meals/whatever because they either 1, didn’t apply to me or 2, I needed the break so I didn’t get completely overwhelmed with information and stimulation overload.

    3. Teapot librarian*

      Comfortable shoes. layers (cardigans are your friend), granola bars, and bring a water bottle.

      1. Bibliovore*

        And this might sound crazy but…
        I make sure there is a fridge in my hotel room. When I arrive, I swing by a grocery store for kefir, orange juice, cold brew coffee, milk, fresh fruit, cheese and crackers.
        I get up super early, do my PT, have my breakfast. Even if one of the meetings offers breakfast. This gives me a good balance and start to the day.
        Layers. Hotel conference rooms are freezing.
        Take some time for yourself. There is a conference coming up inPhilly. Do something local.

    4. bb-great*

      Just because there’s free coffee doesn’t mean you need to partake at every opportunity. Learned that one the hard way.

      1. The Curator*

        or even in the fanciest of hotels, the coffee could be really horrible. (Intercontinental Boston, I’m talking to you) Emergency packs of Starbucks instant have saved the day.
        And here is a good piece of advice. Treat the conference as one big job interview. You can catch up with old friends/colleagues but don’t gossip.
        Introduce yourself to people that you admire. If you are at a session and the speaker was fabulous, feel free to go up to them. Say a little something and then be on your way.
        Business cards. Must have business cards. If the job doesn’t give them to you, make your own. Keep it simple.
        Dress can be comfortable but wear business casual. Leggings are not pants. If you rock pink hair, rock pink hair. No worries about that.
        And yes, there is a double standard. Men can get away with jeans and jacket and be considered dressed for academic work. Women not so much.

    6. AnonAnonAnon*

      I went to a national conference once. A couple things worked well for me:

      1. It was in a different time zone so I was awake very early. I learned there was a horse racing track near my hotel where they have the horses exercise very early in the morning. I didn’t know anything about this but I was awake so I went and watched. It was super cool, and sort of relaxing to watch the animals run (they are so fast!), and the other people watching were super nice. It was outside the ordinary for me, but it was a neat thing to do and sort of meditative before going in to a full day session. This doesn’t apply to everyone, of course, but finding something local is kind of neat.

      2. I made sure to go outside during breaks to get real air and sunshine.

      3. I decided to skip a mass session one evening and go to a professional sporting event nearby. Again, outside my normal zone, but I went and had a beer and a hot dog and cheered for the home team and had fun. I met a couple people from the conference sitting near me, and we all ended up having an interesting unofficial networking session. You never know when that might happen.

  132. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

    Okay, so – how do I explain to an employee that just because I’m reassigning them to a different job process doesn’t mean I think they’re a failure and can never try it again?

    I tried assigning one of my employees to a quality control process – I had him train on it for a few hours and then had him actually work on it. The process requires relatively sharp vision to perform accurately, and should be completed in a set time (about two hours). His work was mostly accurate, but he was taking three or four times as long as expected, and he wasn’t improving over the next couple of months (normally, employees do become more efficient over time). He’d also mentioned having vision problems to me.

    When I checked in with him to see what was happening, he said he was still having issues seeing and things didn’t look accurate. As a result, I decided and let him know that he should probably stay on his old job process (which is somewhat more tedious, but requires less visual accuracy) for the time being. He seemed to be okay with it in person to me, but I overheard from one of my coworkers that he felt like a failure. And I know he’s really sensitive to a lot of things.

    I…didn’t handle the transition perfectly (there were a lot of other things going on with my department going through a small reorganization at the same time, so it was a little more chaotic than I’d like), but to be honest the main deciding factor was that he was struggling to see! Further, he’s actually quite good at More Tedious Job. It’s a little paternalistic, but it just sounded to me like at this point he’s physically unable to do the quality control job. (He did say that he’s getting his vision checked out, so hopefully he’ll be better off soon.)

    (For what it’s worth, he originally brushed llamas to start with, but I put him on fur de-tangling duty and moved him back. But he’s a really good brusher – he can brush two full-sized llamas an hour, and we expect our team to brush only one per hour! And I think that if he gets his vision checked, he’ll be a good de-tangler as well.)

    1. Snark*

      I think there’s a limit around how much you need to manage his emotions. He didn’t do the QA job well. He needs vision correction he’s not pursuing to do it. If you feel the need to buck him up a bit, by all means tell him “hey, if you want to give the llama de-tangling a try again once your vision is checked, I think you could be great at it if you get glasses,” but if he feels like a failure because he physically wasn’t capable of doing something…..at some point, that’s on him.

      1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

        You’re right – I do try to manage his emotions…more than I should. (To be honest, I try to manage everyone’s emotions more than I should, but that’s my baggage.)

        I actually did say something to that effect – “hey, I think you could detangle really well if you get your vision fixed – I’m totally confident in your ability to do it,” and I think I’m probably a little more worried about it than I should be. I just don’t want to crush his confidence, especially if I need him to jump back on detangling!

    2. Betsy*

      I think you can just say exactly what you just said. ‘Hi Fergus. You seem a little down about being reassigned. I just wanted you to know that it’s because you were taking a long time to complete tasks and it seems like that might be due to your difficulties seeing. We think you’re a good, competent employee overall, and don’t have other problems with your performance. Perhaps in the future, there may be opportunities for you to try detangling again, if you find you’re able to see much better after getting your new glasses.’

      *Disclaimer: I don’t know if there are specific regulations relating to people with disabilities that would need to be taken into account here and if having visual impairments would be counted. If so, maybe you would need to be more careful with the language used.

      1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

        Interesting you mention disabilities – I’m in the US (and a fairly progressive state in terms of discrimination protection), so it’s a concern. But for what it’s worth, the roles are paid the same and treated the same administratively (and in fact, fall under the same overall job description).

        Like I replied to Snark, though, I think I’m probably worrying too much about this! This happened Tuesday (Wednesday and Thursday was the big move), and Thursday went fine (he doesn’t work Wednesdays). And to be quite honest, he would default to brushing unless I told him to give detangling a shot anyway, so that also was a factor.

        1. Betsy*

          I guess I’m not a manager, so I’m looking at it more from the perspective of the employee. My managers have been critical over small things and I’ve recently just resigned, not only for this reason. I think it’s important to be explicit about how you value people. I didn’t even think my managers liked me and I don’t necessarily think it would have changed my decision to leave, had I known, but they seemed very sad I was leaving. Let him know that you also feel positive things about his work; in my opinion that’s equally as important as communicating his failures.

  133. Snubble*

    Well, I just got a call to say I didn’t get the job. It’s the first application and first interview of this jobsearching round, so I’m not throwing my hands up and despairing just yet, but it would have been a particularly ideal job. My office is moving at the end of June, and I’d like to not go with it, which means giving notice by the end of May. Time is tight, people, hurry up and hire me.
    There’s another vacancy at the same hospital I’ll apply for this weekend. Different team, but still relevant work.
    I know I ought to start applying to all the random admin work I could plausibly do, but it would be nice to manage something resembling a career and not dead-end in low-ranking administration, you know?

    1. Ambpersand*

      I hear you. A while ago I finally got bumped up to a project coordinator position and now that I’m trying to find something closer to home, all the open qualified positions I see are back down to straight admin/reception work. I really want a new job, but I also don’t want to take a step back and get stuck in it.

      1. Ambpersand*

        Also, sorry to hear that you didn’t get the job- that sucks. Sending positive thoughts that the other job at the hospital works out!

  134. Lucky*

    It’s performance review time here at Lucky Co., and I had a stellar review and received a promotion and healthy raise. I’m feeling pretty well valued and ready to celebrate. Who’s got champagne?

  135. CleverGirl*

    Are all recruiters shady and unprofessional? I’ve about had it with dealing with them. I’m looking for a new job right now and about twice a month I get a message from a recruiter on LinkedIn. Most of the time I think they just found my profile from a keyword search and they are mass messaging hundreds of people. When I respond and express interest, they ask for a resume (which has literally the EXACT SAME information as my LinkedIn profile) and about half the time they reply and say I’m not actually a good fit for the job. Which they would have known if they had actually even given my profile a cursory glance in the first place. One guy (who according to his LinkedIn profile is just barely out of college) was extremely rude and condescending to me when I asked about the salary range of the job he was contacting me about, and took it upon himself to give me some “advice for future reference” in my job search. Sorry, kid, I’ve been working since you were in elementary school, I don’t think you’re in a position to give me advice.

    I finally got fed up and with the most recent recruiter, when I expressed tentative interest in the position and she immediately wanted to schedule a phone call to “discuss it”, I instead responded and asked (politely) if she could give me more details about the position before we move to a phone call, explaining that I have been contacted by a lot of recruiters lately where the positions they were recruiting for were wildly inappropriate for my skill set and experience. Instead of replying, she just ghosted me. Which makes it feel like it was a scam. Which is super weird.

    I don’t understand how recruiting even works. Is it like an MLM? (I mean, I know it’s not, but people pushing MLMs are the closest thing to the vibes I’ve been getting from recruiters lately.) Do they get extra points for every phone call they schedule? Are there actually any decent recruiters in the world or is it just hundreds of people trolling LinkedIn for some keywords and harassing people and wasting their time?

    1. Who the eff is Hank?*

      My husband was a recruiter for a short time and he tried really hard to be one of the better ones. He actually paid attention to people’s work history and qualifications and would only reach out if he thought they’d make a good candidate. He would refer people to other recruiters or jobs if someone wasn’t a fit for a position he was filling but would be good for a different position.

      Unfortunately, he got fired for not meeting his quota of placing candidates in interviews and jobs. Most of his coworkers didn’t take the same time or care that he did to make sure their candidates were good matches to the openings, but if they met their quota then they were considered to be doing well.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Sounds like recruiting = call center job where you have to make numbers and isn’t about helping people find jobs at all.

        No wonder so many of them suck so much.

    2. Foreign Octopus*

      God, I had this recently.

      A friend of mine couldn’t take up a teaching contract for two hours a week and passed along my information to the guy hiring. I got back in touch with him after I missed his call and he immediately wanted to schedule a phone call to discuss after I told him to drop me an email with information about the job. He kept pushing for a phone call and I just didn’t have the time in my schedule to do that so I told him that I was no longer interested and good luck. He kept messaging me asking if I knew anyone else and he came across my brother’s name and messaged me a screenshot of his teaching profile and asked if he was my husband :/

      Completely off-putting. Send the information in an email, or put it online, and then we can talk. I don’t want to waste my time with a phone call of 20 minutes when a two-minute email covers the same info.

    3. a-no*

      I think it may be specific to LinkedIn as I’ve been having very very similar experiences only on LinkedIn but I’ve been lucky enough to have dealt with mostly professional recruiters through other avenues. I say mostly as I worked with one who didn’t understand anything to do with supply chain (it’s the exact same as sales, right? Running a forklift is the same as negotiating contracts, right?), but the majority haven’t been like that.

    4. Sam Foster*

      My experience is two classes of recruiters:
      1) Quota driven sales people who pretty much throw everything against the wall and see what sticks because they work on commission and/or will get fired for missing quota
      2) Higher-level position fillers who are much more difficult to connect with but once you do they work with you to accomplish things

  136. Gina Linetti*

    I applied for a job that had been online for 30+ days and never heard from them. They reposted the job yesterday, but with some tweaks (coordinator to assistant, emphasizing specific skills over others) that puts the job more firmly in my realm of experience. Despite this, would applying again be a waste of time?

    1. fposte*

      How much time would it take and how interesting is the job? It won’t hurt you to reapply, so if it wouldn’t take much more time I’d do it.

      1. Gina Linetti*

        Not much time and honestly, not that interesting but it’s located in a city I love so that would be a step up from my current position.

  137. someone else was using the same name*

    I accepted a new job! I negotiated salary with the confidence of a white, male senator, and I will be making so much more than my last job. The benefits and hours are amazing too. I also allowed for an small break in between last day of old job and first day of new, and now my hubby and I will have a chance to take a long weekend away before starting at a job I am so excited about. This community has been so awesome, inspiring, and informative. I am thrilled to have this blog as a valuable resource.I just wanted to say thanks! I’m on cloud nine.

    1. Trillion*

      CONGRATS!!! I didn’t schedule time inbetween my last job and this one, so I did what I can to schedule a few days off between this job and my next. I’m so looking forward to it! Days off with no chance of a call about an emergency or the looming threat of a full inbox upon return.

      1. someone else was using the same name*

        Thank you. I didn’t even think about no work emails or phone calls while I’m away! That makes it even better!!! Good point. Enjoy your days off Trillion!

  138. Echo*

    AAM readers, what are your thoughts on saying “thank you” to a supervisor for doing a work task? It always comes across as a little presumptuous to me, like you’re implying you assign your supervisor tasks, but at the same time I wonder if there’s a way to show appreciation for your supervisor’s work because it supports you. (I know it’s fine to thank your manager for good management, but I feel like “thanks for helping prep for that meeting” is rude?) Is this just me?

    1. Another Lawyer*

      I say something along the lines of “Thanks for your help on X! I really appreciate it”

    2. MuseumChick*

      I’ve always viewed saying thank you as just showing the appreciation you are talking about. Like, they took sometime out of their day to do the task, so thank you seem appropriate.

  139. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    How do you all work with pets? My wife has problems with our cats, sometimes. They like to cry, get into things, and climb up and block her screen while she’s at work.

    Also, when I’m applying for jobs and etc on my laptop, the tabby cat and the black cat like to climb on my chest, and either settle in or sniff/groom/bonk my head.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      I’ve had to essentially train my creatures that laptop and/or working at my desk equals certain expectations. It was certainly not an overnight thing by any means. I just had to train them like anything else, redirection, correction, all that jazz. I take breaks and give them attention, and I do sometimes have to realize that I’m being harassed because someone needs to go outside or the water bowl is empty.

    3. Fingers Crossed*

      Cats like routine and attention. My advice is to direct their attention elsewhere (away from you). If they’re climbing all over you, throw a fuzzy mouse across the room to chase or flick a ribbon on the floor or laser pointers are good. If food motivated, you may even be able to train them to stay off the computer by giving them a treat every time they jump off the computer.

    4. Earthwalker*

      I haven’t tried it but I’ve read that a nice cardboard box on the work surface may attract a cat away from the keyboard.

      1. Windchime*

        My cat likes to come and sit on my lap for a few minutes. I give him some attention, and then I move him to his little “bed” on my desk (a little folded up quilt with a piece of tissue paper on top). He’s happy to lay there for awhile before he needs more attention.

        Lately he’s been noticing the mouse cursor and wanting to play with it. It’s cute, but it’s also blocking my view of my work.

        1. JaneB*

          Thirdimg the give them their own place in your work area advice – a cosy igloo bed strategically placed to allow feline supervision of my work in my case worked wonders. Every hour or so she would come out and ask for attention, but a short break to pet a kitty was good gor me, and if she didn’t then settle back down I shut her out of the room- she quickly learned that one!

    5. Delta Delta*

      When the cat ends up in my lap while I’m working, I pet him gently and put him down. I tell him, “I love you, but I love you more on the floor.” Repeat as needed until cat gets bored.

  140. Mrs. Fenris*

    I was reading an old thread about the challenges people had faced in cool-sounding jobs such as the film industry.

    So, who here works in an industry that sounds really, really great? The ones where, when you tell people what you do, light up and say, “Wow! I always wanted to do that!” Tell us what it’s really like. Is some or all of it as awesome as it sounds? What is harder about it than people ever realize?

    1. Manders*

      Publishing, specifically marketing fiction books, is my dream career. The bloom has gone off the rose a little in recent years (the recession wasn’t kind to that field, and some nasty sexual harassment scandals are coming to light) but it’s still something I think about a lot. I’m in a very different field of marketing now and I’d love to know more about what it’s really like to work as a book marketer or publicist.

    2. Murphy*

      I used to work at a no-kill animal shelter. People would always say “Oh, you must love working here!” Obviously they thought I just played with dogs all day long. There was some of that, and that part of the job was indeed enjoyable. But otherwise low pay, crappy hours, crappy customers (not all!), crappy pet owners, literal crap. People who treated the place like a free petting zoo and weren’t interested in adopting.

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Event planning. I’ve gotten a lot of, “wow you probably get to be a part of a lot of great events and meet some really cool people!” Sure, I put on some phenomenal events that OTHER people get to enjoy. Me? I’m in the background, running around, trying to make sure everyone else is having a great time. I have never once enjoyed myself at an event I’ve planned. (Not to say I don’t enjoy event planning, because I do, immensely.)

    4. Bridgette*

      Working in a museum. Some people think all we do is install exhibits and stand around thinking about cool science stuff. Eh, not so much. There is so much work to making a museum run that is not as cool as it sounds.

    5. Mrs. Fenris*

      So since I started it, I’ll play…veterinarian. People think the only bad part is euthanizing animals, and that the hard part is “knowing all those different species.” Actually, euthanasias suck but they are not the worst part. And the challenge isn’t knowing all of the different kinds of animals…it’s knowing all of the different specialties. No human doctor does anesthesiology, surgery, cardiology, endocrinology, and psychiatry all in the same day. (On the other hand, that is what makes it fun!) It’s a fairly physically demanding job, but I’d rather do all of this squatting/lifting/walking/standing than sit in front of a computer all day, so there’s that. The absolute suckiest part is the awkward and often hostile conversation that starts with “Your pet needs X and it’s going to cost $YYYY.” We don’t enjoy that one bit more than the owner does.

      1. BadPlanning*

        I feel like there’s a lot of deciphering the “feelings” the pet owner is putting on their pet into symptoms. Like “Fluffy seems sad.” “Is Fluffy sleeping a lot? Not eating? Avoids petting?”

    6. CheeryO*

      I’m an engineer at a state environmental agency, and people get REALLY excited when they hear that and assume that I’m either working on really sexy stuff like climate change, or that I get to play in the forest all day. My department works in the wastewater field, so the reality is… very much not either of those things. I spend my days staring at plans, writing long, unnecessarily complicated permits, and walking around poop plants. Don’t get me wrong, it’s interesting to me, but not at all what most people picture!

    7. Elizabeth West*

      Hahaha, writing.

      “You write books? OH THAT’S COOL”
      It can be. Or it can be like working on the same homework assignment. For six months. And second-guessing yourself the whole time.

      Even worse, people who want a free copy if you publish something because they know you and “You’re just doing it for the love of it aren’t you? Well you’re not getting paid yet, so you must be!” Um, I do it so that someday I CAN get paid for it, thanks. I’m sure there will be even more bullshit when I am, but that has yet to happen. I’ll take it, though. :)

    8. LDP*

      I work in the marketing department for a mall, and our office is actually inside the mall. My job specifically includes event planning and running our website, blog, and social media channels. It is a pretty cool job, but I think a lot people fail to realize: a) I don’t get paid to shop. b) The employee discounts are really not that great. c) Holidays are kind of the worst.
      The last one is one that people seem to have a really hard time wrapping their head around. I don’t get most bank holidays off because that’s when all the stores have their major sales. Christmas in my world starts around late September (I had four meetings to discuss Santa and his photo set before Halloween last year). And we can’t take any time off from Thanksgiving until the end of the year. On Black Friday I worked a 14 hour day without anything longer than a restroom break, and I worked every Saturday between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The entire management team is great, and the work is fun, but exhausting.

    9. Chaordic One*

      I previously worked as a graphic designer. (I had a degree in fine art, which did not really have all that much in common with graphic design.) Everyone would say to me, “Oh, that’s so creative!” and, um, it rally wasn’t. Moreover, I was usually working so fast that I didn’t really have much time to get very creative or even to think about what I was doing and when I left work, I was exhausted. To top it off, it didn’t pay any better than being an administrative assistant.

      When I look back at the work I did, I think that it wasn’t bad, but it was kind of “meh.” I don’t really miss it.

  141. caught in the middle*

    When you think for once management is doing something nice for staff and they come back with so many asks – totally missing the point of the ask (for example, asking for something permanent when the thing on offer is temporary in nature) – and your heart sinks and you are stuck in the middle, getting it from both ends.

  142. GriefBacon*

    I asked last week about when I should follow up after an “extended” quiet period post-interview (it was a couple weeks past when they said they’d be in touch). I actually got a call from them mid-day Monday! As I’d assumed, they’d had another candidate that they “were hoping would make it further in the process than the person did,” which caused the delay.

    We set up a 3rd interview/data test for yesterday, and it went really well! If all 3 members of the hiring committee are in the office today (GO AWAY, FLU), they should be making a decision today! And if not today, then likely Monday. But either way, SOON!

    1. someone else was using the same name*

      Good luck! Sending positive vibes your way. I hope you get it.

  143. Harriet M. Welsch*

    Question regarding software. I am a transactional attorney who transitioned from a large law firm to a small firm in my hometown. Still learning the ropes on pared-down or limited resources for research, tracking time, etc. Our firm does not have any redlining software to compare documents. I miss it! Any recommendations for affordable options? Thanks in advance!

    1. Infinity*

      I’m an attorney, formerly at a large law firm in a large metro area. We used Word’s “Compare” option on the “review” tab, do you need more functionality than that?

  144. Opalescent Tree Shark*

    I don’t imagine anyone will read down this far, but if you do, I need some advice. I applied for a job on the other side of the country and they contacted me to set up an interview literally the day I applied. Near the start of the interview, I asked when they need someone to start seeing as I would have to move all the way across the country. Because of when their programs run, they said they needed someone to start within a month. I told them that was not possible for me (between notice period, finding housing three time zones away, moving all my stuff plus a partner and pets, it just won’t happen). I didn’t want to waste their time if I couldn’t meet their needs so the interview ended. That was Wednesday. I just got an email asking me if I was still interested in the position. I’m confused.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I think I’d reply with something reiterating that you are interested in the position if the timelines match up, but you got the impression that their start date was inflexible and did not meet a realistic start date for you. But then ask to clarify if anything has changed on their end.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      Sounds like they aren’t finding anyone who meets all of their needs (including the need to start within a month), so they’re moving on to Plan B, which is to find someone who is almost perfect and deal with the issues.

        1. Irene Adler*

          Exactly- ask!
          They may be willing to bend on start dates- or offer things like temp. lodging for you until the household can be moved to new location.
          Can’t hurt to at least hear them out.

    3. periwinkle*

      If you talk with them and realize that the role is worth the effort, you can make it work – not easy, but possible.

      I accepted a great job on the opposite side of the country. I loaded up my car (clothes, kitchen and household essentials, and laptop) and moved out there first while my spouse stayed behind and started packing. My spouse started shipping out boxes of stuff while I bought furniture and other basics. After I had set up the new apartment, my spouse shipped out the cats. A couple months later, he sent out the last of the boxes, watched them load the moving pod onto a truck, and drove out to join me on this coast.

      We were able to move fairly easily and I was lucky enough to arrange a good apartment before relocating; however, my plan B was to take a furnished room/sublet for a few months while looking for a permanent place.

  145. CJS*

    A Little Thought Experiment (it is related to hiring/interviewing, I just want to see what various people would do)

    A man sees a posting for an office job and, believing he is a well qualified and solid candidate, submits an application. The company replies and requests he come in for an interview, and he agrees. The day of the interview, he arrives a few minutes early, in his best suit and tie and with all documents they requested.

    At the beginning of his interview, the hiring manager makes immediate note that the man’s hair is a good bit longer than they typically expect on a male applicant, and he explains he is growing his hair out for a cancer wig, since the cause has a very personal connection to him. The hiring manager seems to accept this answer and the interview moves along.

    A week later, the applicant receives a reply email saying overall he was overall a very impressive applicant, and that the hiring manager was especially impressed with his dedication to causes he believes in. However, the man’s hair is simply too long and a violation of the dress code (a detail hitherto unmentioned) and that in order to take the job he must cut his hair shorter.

    The applicant realizes he is between a rock and a hard place. If he sticks to his convictions, he won’t meet the dress code and cannot get the job. If he cuts his hair, he proves he doesn’t actually value the causes he believes in, which undermines his standing as a worthwhile applicant and will likewise cost him the job opportunity.

    What should the man do?

    1. CleverGirl*

      I wouldn’t take a job that told me how long my hair could be. This is also sexist since women are likely permitted to have long hair so if a woman were doing the exact same thing she wouldn’t be penalized for it.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I wonder if I’d have the chutzpah to push back a little, given that the long hair is (presumably) temporary until it’s enough to cut off for wig-purposes, after which, it would (presumably) meet dress code.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        But I agree with CleverGirl that I probably would not take a job with a company that seemed to be a cultural mismatch.

        1. Irene Adler*

          I would inquire as to why they have a hair rule in the dress code. Safety reasons? “Professional” appearance? Cleanliness issue-like in a clean room? Or does someone have an outmoded view of how employees should look? IF that’s the case, would they be willing to hear this applicant’s reasons for growing long hair?

          The other thing to consider is getting hired and then working to change the workplace culture to remove the hair length rule. It happens.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      The applicant realizes he is between a rock and a hard place. If he sticks to his convictions, he won’t meet the dress code and cannot get the job. If he cuts his hair, he proves he doesn’t actually value the causes he believes in, which undermines his standing as a worthwhile applicant and will likewise cost him the job opportunity.

      The applicant is making a huge, and probably erroneous, assumption that the potential employer will consider him unworthy for sacrificing his hair for his job.

      1. CJS*

        Very possibly true, though there is still something of a red flag in the hiring manager only mentioning that his hair length was a dress code violation in the email afterwards, and not at the time of the interview.

        Also, hair length for men is a pretty abnormal thing to be considered part of a company’s dress code.

        1. Temperance*

          Every place I’ve ever worked has had hair length/appearance included in the dress code. It’s totally normal.

          I don’t see it as a “red flag” that the candidate wasn’t told at the interview that his hair length violated the dress code. If the interview went poorly, they weren’t going to proceed, so no need to share that information.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          though there is still something of a red flag in the hiring manager only mentioning that his hair length was a dress code violation in the email afterwards, and not at the time of the interview.

          But it *was* mentioned in the interview. They said it was longer than they expect, which was a soft way of saying it was longer than they want.

    4. Bridgette*

      This what I would do:
      1. Do I NEED this job?
      Factors to consider,/i>
      1a) Am I currently employed?
      1b)If so, am I treated well? Am I paid well? Am I compensated well?
      1c) Why do I want to leave current job?

      2. If answer to #1 is yes- sometimes you have to make a sacrifice, even to a cause you believe in, if it means the difference between paying the bills, eating and improving your overall circumstances vs. being broke, losing stuff you worked hard for and possibly being homeless.

      3. If the answer to #1 is no- that’s harder. Do you feel the new job is worth cutting your hard and supporting the cause in another way or not?

    5. Amtelope*

      I don’t understand why there’s any reason to think that cutting his hair would “prove he doesn’t actually value the causes he believes in” or cost him the job. I would pretty much always assume that an interviewer who says “you can have the job if you cut your hair” means “you can have the job if you cut your hair.”

      So: if he wants/needs the job enough to live with the culture (strict dress code, not flexible on rules), he should cut his hair and take the job. If the cultural fit problem is a deal-breaker,and he can afford to do so, he should turn it down.

      1. Temperance*

        I also think that maybe the applicant is taking this a bit too seriously? Like, no one opposes donating wigs to people with cancer. No one! It’s not really an extraordinary fight, you know?

      3. CJS*

        Thing is, he’s not been told he can have the job if he cuts his hair, he’s been told he doesn’t have a shot at it unless he does so. He could agree to cut it and still not get the job due to another candidate outperforming him at the interview, or just accepting an offer faster.

    6. Temperance*

      It sounds like the applicant is seriously overthinking this. The whole “impressed with dedication to causes he believes in” thing just honestly sounds like someone softening the blow before delivering bad news. There’s no trick question here, the company likes the candidate but his hair doesn’t conform with their chosen standards.

      There are plenty of ways to support cancer research and people with cancer other than growing your hair for a wig. FWIW, places like Locks of Love actually sells the wigs that they create with donated hair, so the dude’s hair might not even go to a person with cancer.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Most people don’t realize Locks of Love primarily provides wigs for children with long-term or permanent hair loss, not children with cancer. And that they’re only free to families who can’t afford to pay – others pay on a sliding scale. (Source: Snopes)

    7. Anony*

      If he wants the job enough, ask if it is a firm job offer and agree to cut his hair before his start date. Then donate some money to the cause instead of hair.

  146. Abby*

    Okay, I need to get other people’s take on this:

    One of my co-workers uses the phrase “hubba hubba” to commentate mundane activities, like meetings. For example, they’ll say something like “Time for my meeting with Fergus, hubba hubba.” Except my co-worker says it in such a bored, sometimes exasperated tone, that it’s kind of thrown me for a loop. Up until now, I’ve only ever heard it used in the context of suggesting sexiness.

    What’s your take? For more context, they’re British and used to say “happy happy joy joy” in a sardonic tone in regards to these meetings, but sometime in the past few months, they’ve switched to “hubba hubba,” and I’m at a loss on whether or not this means something else in British English, or they’ve completely misunderstood its meaning.

    If it’s the latter, should I even bother mentioning this to them? Or should I just see how far they go with this until someone else finally clues them in?

    1. Snubble*

      They’re being sarcastic. They’re using “hubba hubba” to mean exactly the same as “happy happy joy joy” when said in that tone – that they are not looking forward to their meeting with Fergus and it is amusing to imply that they might be.
      If that kind of sarcastic comment isn’t landing as intended in your local culture, it might be a kindness to let them know that they’re coming across strangely.

      1. Abby*

        Oh, I totally realize he’s being sarcastic– the tone makes that obvious. But it’s just jarring because the local meaning (as far as I know) is definitely not what he thinks it is. It’s kind of like if they referred to people with a racial slur without realizing it– except much less offensive.

        I was also a little curious if this was a culture clash. Maybe “hubba hubba” means something else entirely in British English.

    2. Someone else*

      It almost sounds to me like they’re using it almost as they might “yada yada” or maybe “hoop de doo”. Maybe they’ve mixed the two up? If they don’t and they are intentionally being sarcastically disparaging of other people’s looks/attractiveness, I’d suggest they stop.I’d probably suggest they stop even if they are just misunderstanding what that phrase usually means, since it does have that connotation here. You can easily take a “you might not realize this…” tone about it, which gives them an out even if they were doing it knowingly.

      1. Abby*

        Yeah, they might have mis-remembered something like “hoop de doo.”

        I think I might have to tell them what’s up next time. At first, I thought it was funny, but now it’s just getting a little awkward and I wonder if they do it in front of other people. I doubt it has anything to do with appearances, since they’ll use it in phrases like “Well, have to fill out this W-4, hubba hubba.”

        1. Anony*

          I would clue them in. Personally I would find that uncomfortable. I really don’t think it has a non-sexual meaning and therefore the constant repeating is extremely awkward.

        2. a-no*

          Personally, I think this is absolutely hilarious and I wouldn’t be inclined to correct it (much funnier to watch someone else do it) but if you like the person, you’d likely be doing them a favor to mention that ‘it may be a cultural difference, but hubba hubba is a pretty sexual thing here’

            1. a-no*

              Yeah, but it may make them feel less embarrassed if you pretend you don’t know that. Gives them an easy out while saving face, which if you like the person is a kind thing to give them.

  147. VERY anon for this*

    I am trying to fill out a scholarship for school.

    A few years ago, I took part in an activity for about 4-5 years. I was in a leadership position and won multiple awards, even though it was competitive and required a fair amount of work. This thing is, this activity has a religious connotation to it, and is kind of like the spelling bee in that it can attract some VERY intense people, and someone made a (very exploitative of the kids involved) reality TV show about it that really didn’t portray all of the layers involved (shocker I know). It’s not the sort that would have been widely seen, and to my knowledge, I was never actually in this show, although I was there when it was being filmed and may be in the background of some shots?

    I have other activities on there, but so far this whole scholarship thing is really anemic. Most of the impressive stuff I did when I was much too young to put it on there. I can’t put “digs around in the garden” or “paints” or “plays the guitar” on extracurricular activities.
    So I guess
    1. Is it okay to put that on there, and
    2. How do I (honestly) talk about how I spend my time when most of it isn’t easy to put in a format like this (I spend most of it working or doing school!)
    3. How do you even do this whole process? It’s very overwhelming and demoralizing

    1. Reba*

      Definitely include it.

      I know the extracurricular stuff is such a pain… and you can never really know if that’s what pushed you over the edge or not. Did all those Beta Club meetings mean anything? A question lost to the mists of time.

      IMO it would not be out of place to include one line below the organized activities for “Hobbies: gardening, guitar, painting.” I think back in the day I may have included how many years I had done those things, if they were serious pursuits (i.e. 8 years of guitar lessons, not just teaching myself Beatles tunes).

      Good luck, you’ll get through it!

      1. VERY anon for this*

        Does this change if the show is one of the first things that comes up if you google the activity?

        I never watched it, but from the trailer the tone was very much “look at these freaks!” (most of the behavior the trailer mocked was just… being an awkward kid with a camera shoved in your face). Granted, you’d probably have to be curious enough to click through the result to see that? But I’m worried about people at my school finding out. :/

        1. Reba*

          For me, it doesn’t, but I don’t know what this thing is. Or how old the documentary is or how long ago this was in your past.

          It sounds like the activity itself is not, like, inherently scandalous? There are weird documentary “exposé” things about lots of little pockets of society. I think it’s unlikely that scholarship readers are going to investigate things you put down very deeply.

          Would it look odd if you just listed the activity, not the brand-name organization, as a compromise? Not sure this applies. But I’m imagining like “2004-2009 Member, chapter president (2007-2009), national youth agriculture organization” vs. “Future Farmers of America.”

  148. T3k*

    So I had an interview this week with a recruiter and it went well enough. The kicker is the recruiter was either new to hiring practices or forgot about this, because they accidentally asked a question you’re not supposed to ask. It wasn’t intentionally by the feels of it, we were discussing hours and they mentioned how it was different hours, allowing them to get their kids ready for school without being rushed to get to work, then asked “do you also have kids?” Ugh.

    1. Liane*

      If you’re in the US, I think it is one of those questions people assume is illegal, when in fact there’s no law against asking–but in reality it is **Very Unwise** to ask, so most hiring managers won’t.

    2. Anonymous Coward*

      Ugh, I did that the first time I sat on the other side of the interview table (a coworker and I got half an hour with the candidate between manager interviews, so I had no decision power). The candidate mentioned her child, so I followed up by asking how old the kid was… I just treated it like social small talk, and it wasn’t until I caught a glare from my more experienced coworker that I realized it wasn’t appropriate for the setting.

  149. VictorianCowgirl*

    Hi everyone, I posted last week about struggling with perfumes giving me migraines in the office and mgmt being reticent to create a no-scent policy. Today we were going to have an open Forum meeting to discuss everyone’s concerns with the issue, since there are two employees who continue to wear perfume after management and I both requested that they stop in order to help me out. I have worked at this for him for 2 years, and the perfume only became an issue recently once these two employees learned that a client’s perfume sparked a migraine for me. This meeting was canceled because one manager is sick, and today I ended up going home for the second time this week. I feel like this is coming to a head, and that I will either be fired soon or will have to turn in my notice. We are too small of a company to have to follow ADA regulations. Has anyone been in the same situation, and if you resigned what wording did you use on your resignation letter? Can any managers who have successfully dealt with this issue in the past be willing to chime in on strategies used and any advice? Thanks in advance.

    1. moosetracks*

      UGH. I am so sorry. I have no advice, only commiseration as a fellow migraineur for whom perfume is a trigger. It is so easy to just… not wear perfume!

      You should not have to be dealing with this. I hope people see sense and everything is resolved easily.

    2. Former Govt Contractor*

      No advice, just wanted to say how awful it is that your coworkers can’t be bothered to forgo perfume so you don’t have to suffer.

    3. BadPlanning*

      Are they still actively applying perfume? Or do they just still smell like perfume (soaked into clothes, shoes, jackets, etc)?

      1. VictorianCowgirl*

        They’re still actively applying and sometimes in the office. I’m not usually so sensitive as to respond to a lingering scent on clothes that way. I can smell them two cubicles away and they re-up at their desks. It’s so sad, I really loved this job.

          1. VictorianCowgirl*

            I know it, I’m so frustrated! I am relieved that I’m not hearing people here tell me I am the problem.

    4. Mimmy*

      and the perfume only became an issue recently once these two employees learned that a client’s perfume sparked a migraine for me.

      Wait…these two employees purposely began wearing perfume in the office when they learned a client’s perfume had triggered a migraine?? I genuinely hope I am misinterpreting this.

    5. Anono-me*

      That seems like a very unpleasant coworker situation for you.

      It sounds like, Management said don’t do “x” and these two coworkers are continuing to do “x”? If so; This is not an ADA issue. This is an ignoring a direct order issue. If I were the manager in question, I would be addressing the insubordination aspect first and the ‘don’t put more effort into being a jerk than you do into your work” second.

      Good luck.

      1. VictorianCowgirl*

        I wish they would, but they don’t want to take a hard line stance and “offend” anyone. I’ll likely be having to give my notice next week. I think ultimately they don’t believe me.

  150. Kinsley*

    Hopefully this isn’t too late in the day… On Monday, my direct boss and the director of our department announced she was resigning. I’m very happy for her. She has put way too much into this organization for not enough money or recognition. I’m very glad that she’s finally doing something for herself.

    The problem is that this takes us down to only 3 people in our department (2 really because the third has no experience, refuses to help, and won’t ever be fired or disciplined because she’s the owners daughter). We did have six people, but two were fired last month right before they instituted a hiring freeze. We’re already overworked and now we’ll be adding in director level responsibilities until we can find a replacement (which isn’t estimated to happen until at least May or June).

    Ownership is being nice to me because I’m the only person in the entire organization that can do an essential function, but my coworker is being yelled at and belittled and she’s had it. I know she’s looking and I just can’t imagine what my work life is going to be if/when she leaves. I would normally be looking myself too, but I’m 5 months pregnant. Does anyone have any advice? Should I look anyway and hope someone will hire me even though I’m pregnant? How do I even bring up being pregnant or when would I in the process? I’m so confused and stressed and not sure what I should do.

    1. RemoteDreams*

      I wish I had experience with anything like this so I could help, but I do not, I’m sorry! I’m not pregnant or ever expect to be, but I really feel a lot of sympathy for you difficult situation.

      I think that it really depends on how much you plan on depending on your maternity leave, right? Do you get maternity leave automatically at a new job, or would you have to have worked their for a while first? I know you would need at least a year of work to get FLMA, and I’d imagine most jobs don’t give maternity leave to someone who’s only been there a few months, but I’m not sure. But I have also heard that if you go on leave, and then don’t return, they can demand the money back, so the details are really important here – if you decide to take a new job right after, you might be in trouble for leaving this one.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      Oh sheesh, what a mess!

      I would do as much as you can do in a reasonable workweek, and no more. When ownership tries to add more to your plate, show them what’s already ON your plate and ask what can be moved off it or deprioritized. If they say “just find a way to get it all done,” practice your best Miss Manners, “That will not be possible” and “This is the amount of work I can get done in a week — so which of these tasks should I focus on, A or B?”

      Remember, you have power here: What are they going to do, fire YOU? Then they really have no one left to do the work!

  151. RemoteDreams*

    Had my interview! Thank you for all the video chat advice, that part was perfect! Setup a light and everything, looked good. I think it went okay otherwise, I can’t tell anymore because afterwards I’m simultaneously happy with my answers and mad at myself for having short answers… I’m usually so talkative! It was not the longest interview, but she seemed eager to move on, so who knows. I’d like to think that getting the job isn’t solely about nailing the interview, right? I mean obviously people are different in interviews than on the job? Ahhh! I’m so excited about this job, anyone have stories about how they got the job despite their interview? :)

    1. VictorianCowgirl*

      Hi, I’m wishing the best for you! I had an interview the day after I had surgery for a compound fractured ankle, and I was in a lot of pain and quite anemic. It was hard for me to focus on their questions and I apologized for not being en pointe. They said later they hired me because they could tell I was trying really hard to treat people well even though I wasn’t feeling well. So there you go, I hope you get the job!

      1. RemoteDreams*

        I’m also polite even when in tons of pain, I can relate! Sounds like it worked out for you after all :) Thanks for the good wishes!

  152. Sweet T*

    Commentariat Confessional:
    I’ll forewarn you this is super petty but it’s something that has been irking me for a while now. There is a high-ranking PhD from an outside organization that I collaborate with every few months. He is a grown man in a white collar position. It absolutely kills me that in closing ALL emails, he writes “Have Fun!” instead of thanks, sincerely, regards, etc. The work we do together is never fun – it’s just boring administrative stuff. Neither of our jobs is particularly fun. We aren’t discussing fun vacations or plans in the emails. Yet, he still closes all communication with “Have Fun!”
    WHAT GIVES PEOPLE?!?

    2. Snark*

      My feeling is that he is in the habit of closing all emails in this fairly annoying fashion, and that you’re personalizing it to your relationship with him in a way that’s probably not real productive.

      1. Sweet T*

        He definitely closes all emails to all people in this way, but to me, that makes it even worse. “Have Fun!” just sounds ridiculous. I feel like someone from his org should tell him it makes him seem silly.

    4. BadPlanning*

      Could it be that it’s part of his email signature? So it’s just there because it’s there (I mean, he still picked it in the first place).

    5. Zennish*

      I once had a colleague who closed their emails with “Safe Travels!”… we weren’t in positions that had anything to do with travel, or ever did any of it. It always made me feel a bit like I was getting an email from Roy Rogers or something. I had to resist the urge to reply with “Happy Trails!”

      1. VictorianCowgirl*

        They probably would have loved that. I use safe travels a lot (not at work unless someone is traveling), and that would tickle me.

  153. GloryDays*

    I have a tricky situation that I have been worrying about that I would love some advice on! The other day I walked into my office which I share with two other people (Jane and Janet) who I sort of lightly manage, as in I assign tasks and give feedback, but they have managers above me who do the heavy lifting. They were mid conversation with a senior coworker who I don’t manage (Fergusina) who I find to be manipulative and mean spirited. That being said, I get along with her fine on a day to day basis.

    I wasn’t paying close attention and missed the beginning, but then I realised that they were making fun of and criticizing another co-worker (John) quite harshly. This person is a bit of a character, and is honestly a bit annoying sometimes, but I didn’t like what I was hearing. So I interrupted to say I thought John was fine, just a bit of an oddball. But I feel like I should have said something stronger, particularly since Fergusina was sharing criticisms of John’s work which I thought was pretty inappropriate, considering that Janet does some of the same work tasks as John. My interjection did nothing to slow down their gossip, so I clearly should have been more forceful. Fergusina has a tendency to start drama and stir up trouble, so I don’t want to just let her say things like that unchallenged, especially to my team.

    I didn’t have the right words at the time, but do you have any advice for me? I will definitely be on the lookout for more of this kind of behaviour, and I would love to have the right words to use for the next time.

    1. someone else was using the same name*

      Maybe try. “Hey, your comments seem really unkind.” I know it’s not a perfect script, but I know of very few people who would argue back.

      1. GloryDays*

        Thank you! That was similar to what I was leaning towards, even though it feels a little “Pollyanna-ish.” Now that I have thought about this more, I am hoping I can react better if it happens again.

        1. Marthooh*

          Talk to Jane and Janet away from Fergusina. Tell them that getting along with coworkers is part of the job, and backbiting makes that goal more difficult. Maybe say outright that it’s unfortunate Fergusina said something so inappropriate about John (though of course that sounds like backbiting, too.)

    2. Anony*

      “It is really inappropriate to talk about a coworker behind their back at work. If you have a problem with John’s work then you should bring it up to him or his manager but making fun of him is completely out of line and criticizing his work to others is unproductive.”

      1. GloryDays*

        Thanks so much for the advice! This script feels a bit harsh, but on the other hand I don’t want to soften the message too much. I think this kind of gossip can be very poisonous, and I worry about it spreading into other things.

    3. a-no*

      “What a rude/mean/unkind thing to say” or “those concerns sound like you should be taking them to boss not a co-worker” repeat as needed. It actually works, I have officially shamed my coworkers into politeness as I just kept saying it over and over again until they figured out I have zero tolerance for mean-sprited trash talk where they are hoping the other person would over hear to make more drama.

  154. Nota*

    What are some of the evaluation systems you’ve experienced? What do you think works best from both the management and the employee sides of the experience? Our 1000+ company is thinking of reworking our current system and it would be nice to understand how others do it.

    1. CAA*

      The most common one I’ve run into is where the manager and the employee both fill out the same (or very similar) forms and then sit down to talk them over and award a 1 to 5 score. I think this actually works pretty well. I do like the way my last company did it, where there were a few company-wide questions, and then each functional area had questions that were relevant to their function and the functional questions overall had more weight in the final score. Most places seem to use a one-size-fits-all list of questions, and I have always found that if you manage software developers there’s not enough weight on technical job skills. To me, the key to making these types of evaluations useful is to keep the number of questions small, like 6 or 8, and expect managers and employees to actually write answers.

      Another popular method is the 360 review, where you get input from peers, your manager, other departments you’ve worked with, etc. I find this to be cumbersome and most people view it as a big chore and a time suck to have to go and write reviews for all these people they work with. You can make it easier by doing a simple scoring metric with optional comments, but then you tend to only get comments that are negative.

      I also have strong feelings about being honest with employees. If you have a ranking system and only x # of people can get the highest ranking, then tell everyone that up front. Most employees expect to be graded against their stated goals and if everyone achieves what they set out to do, then everyone gets an “A”. However, most HR teams expect that managers will grade everyone on a curve and only the top few who provided the most value to the company will get an “A”. I have never really understood why management think it’s so awful to answer the question “how do I get an A next year” with the truth, which is usually “be more valuable than the guy who got an A this year”. We especially need to explain this to those who are new to the work force.

      Similarly, tell everyone how salary increases work at your company and what the average and median amounts are expected to be. You can prevent a lot of disappointment and shock and make like much easier for managers if you tell everyone up front that merit raises for top performers are going to be around 3%, so nobody will come in expecting 10%.

  155. moosetracks*

    So, my hair is naturally very thick (I’m getting it thinned soon, which will help!) and tends to be a giant pain to wash, especially since I have chronic fatigue and showers are exhausting. Work tends to make me sweaty anyway (though I still need to show up looking all shiny). My problem is that my hair is pretty oily, and that more often than not in the last couple of weeks I’ve gone into work with my hair looking disgusting. No one has said anything, but I’m self conscious about it.

    Any tips for making my hair less (or at least look less) oily when I’m not feeling up to washing it? I have batiste, but the smell makes me feel awful and it just seems to sit on my hair (I have trouble with fragrances, and workplace frowns on them)

    1. Janine Willcall*

      Confession: I only wash my hair about once a week. What I do other days is, in the evening or in the morning before breakfast, I take about a teaspoon of cornstarch, rub it over my hands, and then massage it into my roots. Let it sit. Then brush hair out. Add hairspray to ‘dry’ the look further if you need. No smell! My hair always looks blow dried, in a retro, not glossy kind of way. Hope that helps!

    2. Ambpersand*

      Baby powder is also a great go-to substitute for dry shampoo that doesn’t have much of a fragrance. I’ve also heard that it’s best to put it on early (as early as the night before, when you go to bed) and rub it in to your roots using your fingertips, so it has time to absorb and not look so white and powdery.

      1. Ambpersand*

        I’ve also found that using less conditioner in the shower helps my hair stay grease-free for a little bit longer. I’ll only apply a small amount to the ends of my hair and make sure it’s rinsed out really well. It gets a little more tangled as it dries, but it buys me about 18-24 extra hours.

      2. someone else was using the same name*

        +1 for baby powder. My roommate in college swore by baby powder. She was blonde, and it was easier for her to blend it.

    3. Temperance*

      Can you experiment with simple updos that might hide the grease factor? My hair is similar to yours, and on days when it looks less than awesome, I do a low, messy bun. Hairspray seems to hide the grease.

    4. MechanicalPencil*

      Seconding Ambpersand — applying the night before really helps, and then I might do some basic touchups the morning of (particularly if I’m doing an updo). I use Not Your Mother’s; they have an unscented version that works fairly well. I spray liberally on the roots the night before, brush through the morning of and see if I need to reapply to anything. If so, I’ll spray again that morning.

      1. k.k*

        I’m a fan of the Not Your Mother’s dry shampoo. Psssst! also makes an unscented version. I’ve used both brands and they work well for me. I have really dark hair and neither gave me too much white residue unless I went wild with it.

        1. Ambpersand*

          It is SO hard to find a good dry shampoo that doesn’t make dark hair look completely white!

          1. k.k*

            I know that Bumble and Bumble makes a brown tinted one that is supposed to be great, but I’ve yet to try it. It’s close to $40 and for that much I just suck it up and wash my hair.

    5. Luna123*

      Is it possible that just getting your hair/head wet will help make it look cleaner? My hair gets super oily if I don’t wash it, but if I jump in the shower every day and get my hair wet, I only have to really wash my hair twice a week now. Good luck!

    6. Betsy*

      I live somewhere extremely humid so my hair is sometimes oily on waking even after washing it the night before. I find experimenting with different dry shampoos can help you find a better one. I’ve tried Batiste before and wasn’t that impressed. Right now I have Living Proof Perfect Hair Day and that’s been pretty good as, if you wipe your hair after spraying, it claims to actually take off some dirt and grease. However, this exact brand probably smells too strong for you.

      Other than that I just do messy buns and hope I don’t look too awful.

    7. Millennial Lawyer*

      There’s 2 in 1 formulas that might make washing your hair less of a drag. I’d also keep experimenting with dry shampoo – there’s a foam one by Tresemme that may be helpful. You also may try putting your hair in a bun etc. I usually wash my hair only every other day (apparently you’re not supposed to wash it every day) but if you’re going like a week at a time… you might have to just force yourself to quickly wash it more frequently than you would like.

    8. moosetracks*

      I wear my hair up at work most of the time to keep it out of the way, but migraines mean sometimes it hurts to put my hair up and I have to take/leave it down.

      Thanks for the advice, it looks like I need to do some Ulta/grocery shopping. :)

    9. HannahS*

      Dry shampoo. I have dark hair, and I haven’t found that dry shampoo or baby powder leave visible white flakes in my hair. You can also put it on before bed, which helps “rub” it in a bit more. When I don’t have time to shower, and don’t feel like using dry shampoo, I throw my hair into a ponytail or bun and put on a wide (like 3 inch) headband. It leaves the crown of my head and bun exposed but it covers the more visibly greasy part. It can be low-key and dark coloured, or you can go full bright-red bandana-style for a vintage look.

    10. Cute Li'l UFO*

      You can also DIY your own with arrowroot powder or cornstarch. Admittedly I had really bad luck with this but I know folks who swear by it as they have issues with scent or don’t want to use an aerosol. Applies well with a kabuki brush and if you have dark hair you can mix in a little unsweetened cocoa powder.

      I still have thick hair even after giving myself layers so I apply at night and make sure to apply to areas where I know I tend to get oilier. As in, lifting up my hair to hit the roots. That said, I’m a devotée of Batiste.

    11. Purplerains*

      For what it’s worth, a friend of mine has really thick hair. She used to get it thinned which she found out actually made the problem worse because as it was growing out, she would have all kinds of new growth giving her hair even more volume. I’m not sure if they have better methods these days to do this, but just something to keep in mind.

      1. Short & Dumpy*

        +1

        Thinning actually requires MORE maintenence & work than thick hair. (I love my thick hair…thick enough that I can’t use normal hair ties because a ponytail is wider than their maximum stretch to double). When I can’t keep up with it, I go for a pixie cut because my hair grows so fast & they’re fun for me.

        I find styles like French braid hide oily hair well…it looks like you put product in to keep flyaways down :)

        I hope you feel better soon! (I have fibromyalgia & know how miserable the little things are when it flares)

    12. Anony*

      I have found that Mane ‘N Tail shampoo really strips the oil out of my hair. I have very oily hair so this is great! I normally can’t skip washing my hair, but that shampoo allows me to skip a day or two without my hair being disgusting.

    13. Boy oh boy*

      I strongly dislike washing my thick oily hair. When I was very anxious/depressed it was a hateful chore. I found using a Bluetooth shower speaker and putting on loud fun music or podcasts was a surprisingly good way to make it less of a burden.

      Rubbing shampoo into my scalp, not the ends, and brushing thoroughly before washing also seems to help get my hair cleaner/easier.

  156. Saradactyl*

    Two questions: 1) Does anyone have any experience using a retention bonus as leverage to negotiate a signing bonus? My current job is closing its physical office and sending all employees to be 100% remote – if you don’t want to do that, you resign. They are offering a “retention bonus” to stay until the physical office closes, and I signed an agreement in Dec that if I would stay and get said bonus. However, there’s nothing actually contractually obligating me to stay and I can quit whenever I like, the agreement is just that I won’t get the bonus unless I stay til the end. I’m actively applying for new jobs and would happily quit earlier than the end date if the right offer came up, but I’m wondering if I have any opportunities here for any other offers because the bonus is actually attractive to me. (Not a whole lot of money, but more than I’ve ever gotten at once.)
    This transitions to 2), which is regarding an interview I have on Tuesday. I’m trying to think up some good questions to ask in my interview about work-life balance and culture surrounding burnout and workload. The company I’m interviewing for is a tech startup, and the VP I had a phone call with made some allusions to working longer hours than I might want from a job. I got very burnt out in my current job even with shorter, 7.5 hr days due to workload increase that never really righted itself, so maintaining a healthy balance and workload is pretty important to me and I want to make sure I’m asking questions that help me decide if the company is a good fit for me. Any advice?

    1. Amtelope*

      If you’re looking for a healthy work-life balance and reasonable workload, and being overworked is a deal-breaker for you, a tech startup where the VP says upfront you’ll have to work longer hours than you might want doesn’t sound like a good fit right now. Whatever they say in the interview, I think you can assume that is not going to be a slow-paced, everyone goes home on time environment.

    2. Anony*

      Depending on how much longer your current office is staying open, it might be easier to negotiate a later start date that would allow you stay long enough to get the bonus. I agree that a tech startup is unlikely to offer a good work life balance.

      1. Saradactyl*

        I think you and the other responder are probably right, and I’m okay with that! I do still want to give the interview a good shot and I’m happy they invited me, since this is my first real invite since I started searching, but I’m prepared that it might not be a good fit for me.

    3. Sam Foster*

      Depending company size and role, most places I’ve been understand “making you whole” so I’d bring it up during final negotiations. You’ll need to have a clear set of numbers and justification like any other compensation request.

      Bear in mind that if you are leaving for a pay raise, the pay raise may make you whole fast enough it wouldn’t matter if you walk away from a bonus.

  157. CAA*

    I’m just wondering if anyone else is listening to and enjoying the series of CEO interviews on the Freakonomics podcast. I’m finding it quite fascinating to hear about how these very successful business people got there and how they think about the work they do.

    1. Snark*

      I actually listened to a few of them, and…..honestly, I don’t like them. They feed what I percieve as an unhealthy tendency toward CEO worship in American business and the culture at large.

      1. Reba*

        I haven’t listened, but I am similarly annoyed by the mere promo for the “How I Built This” podcast that I hear on some of my regulars, for the same reason.

        OTOH now that I have looked at their site and seen that Jeni of Jeni’s Ice Cream is on it (midwest represent) I may have to eat my words. Or better, ice cream.

        1. Windchime*

          I actually like the “How I Built This” podcast. Most of the people they interview aren’t professional big-wigs; they are people who built their companies from the ground up. I find them pretty interesting.

          1. Reba*

            I’m sure most of the people are fine! It’s just the Guy Rzz, “wow that’s so amazing” tone that irks me. But this is encouraging me to give it a try!

  158. CEMgr*

    I need to schedule training for a new supervisor at my place of work. We are a small startup (16 people, probably doubling this year) and the founder told me that an individual contributor is likely to be promoted to supervise an hourly worker, for whom we are searching now. I won’t manage either person, but I am in a management position and have de facto ownership of our recruiting. (The COO created a headcount plan with my input, and I am executing on it.)

    The individual contributor has never supervised anyone, as far as I know. He has many accomplishments and skills which are uniquely valuable to this organization (though far from irreplaceable), and also has done more than a few things that look and sound like the “Before” skit in an HR training video:

    * Calling women girls (now corrected after I spoke to his de facto supervisor)
    * Insisting a role call for a 50 pound lifting limit (though unjustified by stated responsibilities) and remarking that this would exclude women (also corrected now after I intervened)
    * Making frequent comments during interview debriefs about how people superficially resemble groups of people he’s familiar with and how that makes them especially fit for a role (rather than using objective and situational interviewing as I have trained everyone on)
    * Pushing hard to have his personal cronies and contacts considered for roles, even when they are not well suited and we have objectively better candidates

    Given free rein, I believe he would go and choose a personal contact in a biased manner. I won’t let that happen.

    Over and above the recruiting problems, he needs basic supervisor training (delegation, feedback, goal setting etc.) and I’d like to make sure it includes basics on California employment law.

    Does anyone have recommendations for either online training, or in person training in the San Francisco Bay Area? Topics:
    *Management for First Time Supervisors
    *Basics of California Employment Law for First Time Supervisors.

    Thank you!

    1. Amtelope*

      I, wow. How badly do you want this job? If you hire a woman or a person of color to work for this dude, who you know has done discriminatory things in the past, and he then predictably discriminates against them, but still has the support of the founder, do you want to be involved in the fallout? I would be job-hunting in your place.

    2. neverjaunty*

      You can contact employer-side law firms, like Littler or Munger Tolles, which routinely offer this kind of training.

      Of course, they’ll also tell you this guy is a walking lawsuit waiting to happen. But they do offer training.

    3. Reba*

      CEMgr, does the founder or top authority know about all the things in your bullet points? If so, I really side eye the company leadership. Is there any avenue for you to push back on his promotion?

      I mean. IMO this employee is not going to be trained out of being an asshole, *especially* if he is getting rewarded/promoted, despite all these flags. Do you think he has actually changed following your corrections? My gut sense is that he would take the lawsuit-avoidance aspects of training and not the harassment-avoidance and good people management parts.

  159. junica*

    I have a second interview(!!!) this coming Monday. As a recent graduate (May 2017, so not too recent), I’ve been struggling to find a job. I have had TONS of first interviews, but no second interviews, so it’s been really disheartening, and I’ve struggled with self esteem issues over it.

    However, now that I have a real second interview, I’m still struggling. I don’t know how it’s different than a first interview, I don’t know how to make myself stand out as the best candidate, and I don’t know how to interact with the Director of HR and the CEO, who I will be talking to. Does anybody have any tips for second interviews, or interviewing with CEOs/HR personally?

    1. someone else was using the same name*

      I just did a second interview and was hired after a third. What worked well for me was asking really strong questions. Make sure you do your research about the company. Really think about how you would attack your first 30 or 60 days in the role. If you search second interview, Alison has some additional tips. Good luck! You got this!

    2. MMM*

      I’m not sure if this means your first interview was just a brief phone screen with someone from HR, but if so the second interview is a great opportunity to ask more specific questions. If that is the case, then this round I’d ask questions about what a typical day/week might look like, questions about their management style/how they handle giving feedback, what the training period is like etc. Basically the HR reps don’t usually have the more intricate details about the day to day of the role, so I save more specific questions for later rounds. In general, you can also just use it to see how your personalities mesh, since you are meeting people you’ll be working much more closely with.

  160. drpuma*

    Thinking about the discussion from earlier this week about former reality TV personalities applying for “regular” jobs, I am curious to hear from folks –

    Who are the reality TV stars that you definitely WOULD want to hire or work with?

    1. Nanc*

      I don’t know if So You Think You can Dance counts, but Aaron and Jasmine from Season 10. They both seemed so delightful and are my all time favorite dancers from SYTYCD!

      Mind you, there is not really a need for professional dancers in my office!

      2. AdAgencyChick*

        I adore them. So good, individually and together. I was super bummed last season when Jasmine’s partner got knocked out first!

    3. HannahS*

      Most people from the Great British Bake Off and Great British Sewing Bee seem absolutely delightful. I think working with the red-headed engineer from a couple of seasons of bake-off ago would be pretty cool. Or Nadya, obviously, because she’s hilarious.

      2. periwinkle*

        Andrew is the engineer in question. I’m re-watching that season right now! There are a few GBBO contestants I would not want as officemates, but very few. I could totally see trading endless snarky IMs with Beca and Tamal.

    4. Aphrodite*

      I would definitely hire Anthony fro Project Runway All Stars (season 6). He is without doubt the most positive, energetic and upbeat person with nary a negative word to say about anyone. He’s amazing!

  161. MN Wage theft?*

    Is there any recourse if an employee basically checked out for a few weeks and was subsequently fired, but it’s discovered that the employee had started at a new job during this time? The overlap occurred for about 3 weeks. Can the employee be sued for wage theft or anything? It’s in Minnesota if that helps.

    1. AMT*

      Wage theft is when an employer doesn’t pay wages owed to employees, not when an employee doesn’t do their job. This person is a crap employee, but I doubt there’s a cause of action there.

    2. CAA*

      There’s no law against someone having two jobs. If you find someone is not doing good work or enough work for you, all you can do is fire him, which has already happened.

      If you can show that he falsified his timecards, then you may have a case for theft. It’s very unlikely that you’d get a prosecutor to take on such a small case, but you might be able to use this information to negotiate a reimbursement plan with him in exchange for a neutral reference.

      Also, if he was working for one of your competitors, and you believe he used your company’s confidential information to provide an advantage to his other employer, then you could sue him and the other company over that.

    3. LQ*

      You should definitely contact unemployment and make sure they know the employee was working another job so you aren’t paying that way. But beyond that? Not sure, but unlikely.

      1. Natalie*

        Unemployment doesn’t get notified when people get let go or anything, the employee has to proactively apply. I can’t imagine why they would when they already have another job.

    4. Natalie*

      No, people are still required to be paid even if they suck at their jobs.

      And bluntly, trying to figure out how to further punish a crappy employee that you’ve already fired isn’t a good attitude for a manager to have. They’re gone, you never have to deal with them again. If you’re still mad and hoping to get something over on them, you may be taking it too personally.

    5. a-no*

      if you can prove they were working the other job while being paid by you, it could be time theft so I’d check with a lawyer if you can prove it. But it has to be proof the work was completed on your time, it can’t just be same day as you can’t prove they didn’t go home and do the work then.

  162. The Original Flavored K*

    The saga of Boy Howdy This Hospital System Sure Is Well-Administrated And Organized continues with a brand new episode. This episode is titled, the original flavored K drinks because you order a surgery for Monday… and place the order an hour before I leave on Friday.

    Update: the Original Flavored K also drinks because THIS ORDER WAS APPROVED A WEEK AGO AND I SENT IT BACK TO YOU, WHY DID YOU RE-ORDER IT.

      1. Ashk434*

        Oh never mind. I think I get it. For some reason I thought you were talking about ordering K-cups for a surgery but I understand now. My bad.

  163. Stranger than fiction*

    What should an employer do if an employee is making it known to certain coworkers they’re just over it, putting in bare minimum, and want to be let go so they can collect unemployment? Do you give them what they want or let em fester til they quit?

    1. The Original Flavored K*

      My first instinct is to evaluate how satisfactory their bare minimum is, whether that bare minimum will continue to be satisfactory if they take more than a month to give up and resign, whether they’re affecting team morale, and how much of a pain it’ll be to have to immediately jumpstart replacing them. Ultimately, though, if they’re that unhappy/”over it,” they’re going to leave one way or another.

      I’d also be considering the merits of a serious conversation that started along the lines of, “So I get the impression you’re not happy here. Is there something we need to discuss? Are there any changes you think the office needs to make?”

      1. Stranger than fiction*

        Her manager already knows she’s unhappy and she’s literally threatened him to fire her, but he didn’t take it seriously. The company went through some turmoil last year, sales are down, and raises are on hold. But she’s getting close to retirement age and holds on here because of the benefits.
        We wouldn’t be able to, or want to, replace right away because changes are being made to that department (and it is taking a while) but we’d make do as small companies have to sometimes.

    2. Millennial Lawyer*

      Why would you want to keep that employee around? The only reason would be to keep them from getting unemployment I suppose, out of spite, but that’s unhelpful to everyone else working and not good business sense either.

      1. Stranger than fiction*

        Because upper management isn’t aware, only her direct manager is. For it to happen, I’d have to be the one to say “look, the negativity is getting old a d she told so and so and so and so she wishes you’d let her go…”

        1. Millennial Lawyer*

          Are you the direct manager? If not, I don’t know if it’s your place to go over his/her head. You can go to *your* manager and explain that she has been saying these things and it’s really bad for morale.

    3. Leah*

      I had a coworker who got to that point at my old job; we both worked as a first level help desk analyst, in a team of around eight people. When he took calls from customers who were having issues with a system, any system at all, he’d tell them that the system was unavailable. Then customers would call back hours later to ask if the systems were back up, another analyst would take the call, and of course, the systems weren’t down at all, and we’d have to find a way to save-face somehow. He didn’t get away with it for very long; eventually he ended up doing that to a manager, who at the end of the day was letting off steam with his coworkers and caught on to the lie (“Sucks that system X was down today, huh?” “What do you mean? The system wasn’t down at all!” “But help desk said it was! I didn’t work on system X all day because they said so!”) The manager called our boss the next day, and my coworker was fired. He alone, in the span of about three or four days of doing this, ruined the help desk’s reputation, and left the rest of us with a lot of overwork and unsatisfied customers, who’d been waiting on their asses for hours (or even days) for their “unavailable systems” to magically start working again, when five minutes with any other help desk analyst would’ve fixed their issue.

      I say that if the person already admitted that they WANT to be let go and openly stated to not care about the company anymore, then you should let them go ASAP. The longer they’re there, the bigger recipe for disaster it is. That is, IF you’re in a position to let them go; if you’re just their coworker, I say speak out once their disinterest starts harming the rest of your team, and let management deal with them as they see fit.

    4. Natalie*

      Go ahead and let them go and they can get unemployment. It’s not indefinite or an especially large payment, the glamour will probably wear off soon.

    5. Anony*

      If the employee is fired for not doing their job to a satisfactory level, they may not be eligible for unemployment.

      1. Stranger than fiction*

        In my state, you’re eligible unless you were let go for misconduct…which in my opinion it is when you yell at your boss telling them to fire you. But the boss was ok with that and blew it off as bad day. Now we’re stuck with ms eyeore moping around like the world is ending.

  164. QueerGal*

    I work at a small office, less than ten people, and the office director has constantly been going against company guidelines by making not just inappropriate, but downright transphobic comments and jokes in the office for everyone to hear.

    I’m the youngest one here – mid 20s while everyone else is in their early 30s and 40s – and I’m the only one deeply bothered by his comments. As a member of the LGBT community and a person who’s friends or acquainted with several transgender and gender-nonconforming people, I find his comments highly upsetting and infuriating. I’ve politely spoken out and tried to argue that the things he says aren’t accurate, but he brushes me off and keeps at it as if I didn’t say anything, at which point I just shut up and quietly fume at my desk while everyone else agrees with him or just listens like the things he are saying are true (they’re not) or funny (definitely not), which means I’m totally alone when trying to fight back on this.

    Per company rules (we’re a small branch of a huuuuge company), his comments are 100% against our credo and values, and I’d be more than welcome to make an anonymous report on our guidelines channel. However, I’ve been trying for an office transfer, and although the reports are anonymous, because I’m the only one who’s spoken out against these sort of offensive comments, it’d be glaringly obvious it was me who reported him. My fear is that, if I do report him and he gets reprimanded for it, he’ll make my professional life a living hell by being less willing to advocate for me when I need it the most. But if I do get the transfer and I’m gone from this office, I wanted to submit the anonymous report, because I feel like I have a moral obligation not only to myself but also to the company to speak out when I see people preaching such offensive and backwards comments such as these (and it’s in the guidelines too, that it’s my duty as an employee to speak out when people deviate from the company’s credo, and I imagine HR would want to know when higher-ups that should be representing them and all that they stand for might not be doing so as they should).

    A friend of mine, manager from another branch, thinks I should speak out as well, since legally the director can’t do anything that would harm me in the company as a result from my report – but technically, not going the extra mile to help me out with my transfer wouldn’t be harming me, and I just really need this transfer and can’t risk my career over it. I’ve thought of asking my boss, who’s friends with the director, to talk to him and tell him to maybe tone it down, but I have no idea if my boss agrees with the director’s comments, since he’s never shown to be bothered by them, and so I’m not wholly comfortable approaching him like that. My mother thinks I shouldn’t report the director at all, not even if I get the office transfer, because I’ll be burning bridges and it’s not worth it. But not saying anything, even after the repercussions against me are minor, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    What do you guys think I should do? Have you ever been in a similar situation? What did you do then? And will I be in trouble if, in the future, HR discovers I knew that someone was openly transphobic in the office but kept quiet about it just to save my own ass, since the guidelines tells us to speak out?

    1. Temperance*

      I would wait until you get the transfer, and then say something. I wouldn’t be so sure that you’re legally protected, unless you’re lucky enough to live in one of the states that has whistleblower and LGBT protections.

    2. Amtelope*

      Wait for the transfer, then report him. Don’t worry about burning this bridge (you don’t want bridges with this guy in the future, and since he’s not your boss, you don’t need him as a reference), but get your transfer through first.

      1. neverjaunty*

        This. And you can make it crystal clear to HR that because you were shut down when you tried to talk to AssBoss about it, you were afraid of retaliation.

      2. QueerGal*

        Yes, this. I don’t mind burning bridges with people I have no intention of being associated with ever again. I just tuned out my mom when she started ranting about it not being worth it – I get her, and I know she means well because she’s worried about ny future in this company being jeopardized, but I don’t know if I can live with myself if I just pretend this never happened. He’ll just keep doing it, thinking it’s ok, and I don’t like the idea of just letting him think he can get always away with being a dick because the people within earshot aren’t part of the minority he’s making fun of – as far as he knows.

    3. AMT*

      No advice, but as a trans person who has heard transphobic comments at work, thanks for speaking up.

      1. QueerGal*

        I’m sorry you have to suffer through this as well. I can imagine how especially upsetting and hurtful it must be for you to listen to stuff like that :( One of the main reasons that makes me want to say something is because I keep thinking… what if he works in the future with someone who’s trans, and who also can’t say anything without outing themselves? Until when will he keep acting this way, thinking it’s ok and that his words have no real-life consequences? It especially worries me because he wrongfully assumes he can tell just by looking who’s cis and who isn’t – he said that since me and my female coworkers have “coochies” then we’re “allowed” to celebrate woman’s day. It grossed me out to no end. I had no idea how to retort to such a dumb comment without furthering the discussion of my genitals and what they look like – which I did not want in any way, shape, or form. I wanted to scream at him that, as a middle-aged rich white man, he has no right to decide who’s a woman and who’s not, even as a “joke”, and to shove his backwards ideas where the sun doesn’t shine.

        My hope is if he gets reprimanded by the company he’ll see that he was wrong and stop saying these awful things, or if we’re being more realistic, he’ll be forced to keep his (dumb) ideas to himself and far, far away from the workplace and his public social life, so that people forced to hang around him, like I am, never have to deal with this sort of hateful garbage again, in silence or otherwise.

        (Or he might get fired. I wouldn’t be too upset about it tbh.)

    4. anon for this one*

      I feel for you. I too work with someone who recently made gratuitous remarks about gender nonconformity…and they’re a client, so the company isn’t going to make them stop. (Yes, I am deliberately avoiding gendered pronouns!) Like you, I feel trapped between my moral outrage and the fact that my job depends on this person’s opinion.

      In your situation, I’d probably wait to act until after the transfer, and then report him. Make it clear when you report that you are afraid of retaliation because you don’t believe it’s possible for the complaint to be anonymous, and that you want to make sure he’s not able to hinder your career later on when you need references for future employers.

      I’m really sorry you’re dealing with this. Commiseration.

      1. QueerGal*

        I’m super happy that everyone seems to agree that I should report him after I’m transfered; it just makes me confident that it’s the right choice and that I should go forward with it. I just hope that the transfer comes soon, so that this isn’t super old news by the time I report him.

        And I’m sorry you had to deal with that client! What a jerk. I hope that, in the future, you’re in a position where you’re able to talk back and stand firm that these sort of comments aren’t ok and won’t be tolerated.

        Here’s hoping for a future where everyone agrees that jokes that punch down aren’t funny, where all questionaries have more options than just “Male” and “Female” (my best friend is non-binary and this bothers me to no end), and where people can identify with whichever gender they prefer without worries.

    5. Argh!*

      There should be whistleblower protection for things like that, and since you work for a huge company, they probably have an EEO compliance officer you could confide in.

  165. Lalaith*

    I know this question has been asked a million times, but how much contact is too much when waiting to hear back about a job?

    I had an interview 2.5 weeks ago, on a Tuesday. One of the main decision-makers (who I’d met previously) was out for that whole week, so I knew I wouldn’t hear anything until she was back in the office, and we also had a couple of storms that may have been delaying everything, so I waited until the following Thursday to check in. When I did (emailing all 3 people I’d met), I got an out-of-office message from one of them (not the same person who’d been out the week before), saying he would be out that Thursday and Friday. I got a reply from one of the other people saying that they were waiting for that person to get back and then they’d make a decision. If I go by his OOO email, he should have been back this Monday, but here it is Friday and I still haven’t heard anything.

    So, is it too soon to check in again? Should I stop checking in entirely and go with the “if they want to hire me, they won’t forget about me” motto? Ugh, I just need a job so badly and I had a good feeling about this one!

    1. Anony*

      Yes it is too soon. Honestly, contacting them once was already too much if your interview was 2.5 weeks ago and you already knew that one of the decision makers was out for a week. E-mailing all three of them is like contacting them three times already. I would stop checking with them entirely.

      1. Lalaith*

        I should have mentioned that I’d asked for a timeline during the interview, and they said I’d hear something early the next week, so my checking in when I did wasn’t *totally* crazy. Also I said I was checking in about the timeline in the context of the storms, so hopefully I conveyed a tone of understanding if they had been delayed.

        1. Anony*

          If you waited over a week after the date they said you would hear something, then contacting them once doesn’t sound too bad. I still wouldn’t contact them again though.

    2. Blue Eagle*

      Please remember that although this is the foremost thing in your mind and of #1 importance, for them it is just filling another job and it is probably way down the list of importance for them. Yes, they would like to fill the job, but things come up that cause a delay.

      You have already reached out to them once, so they know you are interested, just kick back, have a glass of wine and try to relax.

      Sending positive energy your way that this works out for you!

  166. WonderingHowIGotHere*

    I have to have a tiny rant about professionalism, or the lack of it in my CurrentJob.
    We have been through some turbulatn times, and the current C-Suite is a complete revision of the one two years ago, and we have a new set of Values – the last one is “We have fun!” (i’m not kidding, I think the exclamation mark is part of it, but I was so incensed by reading it that the detail escapes me). I don’t object to having fun in the workplace – we had Wii Olympics one year, and a “throw wet sponges at the directors” summer event which actually raised a lot of money for our nominated charity – as long as it doesn’t interfere with the ability to do our jobs. You know, the stuff we are actually being paid to do.
    We have an intranet – designed so that we could share industry related articles, find the telephone numbers of staff in different departments, and yes, have a bit of fun around the customary holidays (the Easter Bunny posted an article yesterday). BUT several of our younger members of staff have taken to treating it like a work-sanctioned version of Facebook and it’s now impossible to find the appropriate article without first wading through BFF posts, pictures of someone’s pet cactus and several not-at-all-related-to-work threads dedicated to just one member of the sales team. This is all fine with the C-suite as far as I can tell – considering one of *them* posted a “pet of the Month” article. But for those of us who actually take professional pride in doing the work we are paid for, this is becoming hell on toast.
    Especially when said C-suite are asking constant questions about why we aren’t meeting certain work related targets, and giving me and my colleague mini projects to find out why we aren’t meeting targets (uh, hello? we haven’t met this week’s target because we were too busy answering your dumb questions about why we hading hit last week’s target). But hey, we’re all supposed to be having fun right?!
    Sorry. Today has actually been a day off for me, and it still makes my blood boil that this is what I’ll be going back to on Monday.

  167. Master Bean Counter*

    I’m going to gloat for just a minute.
    Sportsball guy is hosting a bracket challenge at work. I have a mild interest in the tournament (Go Zags!) So I decided, in an effort to be a team player, to join in.
    Sportball guy was doing a good amount of smack talk yesterday. So when Ohio won and I pulled ahead of him, he got quiet.
    I may have loudly pointed out that I was beating him. And I’m still holding first place today.

  168. Anon Anon*

    This week has been miserable.

    Our CEO has been stomping around the hallways yelling, cussing, and generally acting like a 4 year old who doesn’t get his way. He routinely proves that the fish rots from the head down.

    1. Irene Adler*

      Lovely.

      I once worked for a CEO who got angry at something and actually tossed a piano over a railing and into the pool below. He was an ex-pro football guy.

  169. NoTalk*

    End of PIP Check-in

    After four weeks and no check-ins with either my boss or HR, I have been scheduled for a final PIP check-in meeting for 3 p.m. Monday. I’m a little confused as to how this is going to go because there have been no follow up meetings since last month. I cannot tell if I’ve somehow violated the PIP or if things are on the right track.

    Has anyone been in a similar situation before? If so, how did you handle it? If not, any suggestions on not worrying all weekend or freaking out Monday?

    1. Argh!*

      I had almost exactly this situation once. My boss is extremely conflict-averse, and I think the PIP was grandboss’s idea. She dragged her feet on every single part of it. The few check-ins we had were at my instigation, as was the final sign-off, which was at least a month late. When we did have a check-in she promised a write-up and didn’t deliver on that, either. So I took the initiative and sent it to her. I was the one who prodded the final meeting, too. Ironically, the PIP specified that I had to stop asking the boss for better communication, and then complaining about how incompetent the boss is when she refused to any Supervision 101 things to help me do things her way. So that I was right went right into my personnel file! I have learned to put up and shut up, but I’m also looking for another job.

      At the very least, you have proof of your employer’s non-compliance with their own attempt to help you, which may help in a wrongful termination case. I hope it doesn’t go that direction, though. If they are so lackadaisical that they don’t stick to the letter of the agreement, that could mean they don’t really mean to take further action.

      Please check in next week to let us know how it goes!

      2. NoTalk*

        Thanks for your comment.

        I’m very confused about the entire thing as I had no direct improvements to meet and my boss hasn’t mentioned anything about it since the meeting a month ago. Again, I appreciate the commiseration.

        Good luck on the job hunt!

    2. anon for this*

      So this may not be what you want to hear….but be ready for that meeting not to go well.
      I had a PIP like that where I spent the whole time knowing it was a formality because in the very first meeting I asked if there were concrete goals I could meet and the answer was “no it’s more if we see improvement we’ll know” That first meeting happened 2 weeks after the PIP started because every time it was scheduled either HR or my boss would push it off.
      I worked my butt off, asked for feedback and did my best without any sense of what I was supposed to be doing
      I got to that final meeting and was told I hadn’t improved and was being terminated.

      1. NoTalk*

        Anon for this:

        Thanks for your comment and sorry for your experience.

        Given that my boss hasn’t spoken with me at all and there have been no complaints, I’m not sure what to expect.

        For the sake of my weekend, I’m opting for cautious optimism. It may change come Monday morning.

        1. anon for this*

          I wasn’t heartbroken – I was interviewing at the time and they felt guilty because I think they knew it had been a bit dishonest.
          I’m crossing my fingers for you – let us know how it works out!

  170. sunshyne84*

    There’s a cougher across the hall and its very distracting! Get some lozenges please! It’s not just today either.

    1. BadPlanning*

      I hear you (ha!) — the getting over a cold hack, snorffle, gag is especially the worst for me (and I’m sure I’ve been guilty of it).

    2. selina kyle*

      Thought you said a “cougar” across the hall and either meaning of the word had me very intrigued!

  171. A Good Problem to Have*

    I gave notice earlier this week and I am retiring! Yay! I am a bit of an introvert and dreading my last day 2 weeks from now because of the trauma of saying goodbye to everyone. I have in the past said to coworkers on my team who left “It was a pleasure working with you!” and intend to say that, and thank people for their good wishes. But what do I say to people I don’t work directly with? Take care, goodbye, thank you, seem too little. Any ideas? Good lines?

    1. LawBee*

      “Bye!” with a cheery wave. They won’t think twice about it.

      And congratulations! Retirement is a dream.

      1. A Good Problem to Have*

        Thank you! Hard to believe it’s finally here! One of the few good things about getting older, lol.

  172. Hannah*

    I often find myself in a situation where I stumble upon work that my colleagues have done that is really bad. As in, they didn’t bother doing it at all. One colleague in particular is a repeat offender.

    This isn’t like making typos or something. It is stuff like, it is Fergus’s job to make sure all the purple teapots have handles, and for some reason or another I’m looking in the purple teapot closet (not chasing after Fergus’s work, just because I need a purple teapot), and I’ll find that all purple teapots from March are missing handles, but have been marked as “checked”.

    My boss has no reason to check after this stuff. She thinks that Fergus is doing his work. This doesn’t actually affect my work at all. Generally, I’m in charge of green teapots. But it does affect our product. As in, we’re sending out purple teapots with no handles. Do I tell on him? I don’t think I can approach him directly, as he can be a real jerk about this kind of thing (I’ve approached him in cases where it DOES affect my work and he behaves like an ass about it, no matter how diplomatic I try to be).

    He is senior to me, too, but we both report to the same boss.

    1. BadPlanning*

      Can you approach it as a process problem? Like, “Hey Boss, I noticed that several purple teapots in March were missing handles. Are we still using Form 1 and Process 5 to verify teapot parts? Just want to make sure that Checkpoint 7 is still in use and didn’t get shut off — remember that one year when we forget lids for 2 weeks because there was a power blip?”

    2. Argh!*

      What did you do after you found the bad teapots? Nothing?

      You could just say to your boss “Whoops, I saw these teapots have no handles. What should I do?”

      If boss is a wimp, nothing will be done. If boss is concerned, boss should take over from there. You don’t have to assign blame. Your boss should be able to figure that out.

      1. Hannah*

        I didn’t do anything because in normal circumstances, I should just tell Fergus about it and not mess around with his work. I can easily attach the handles, but I don’t think either my boss or Fergus would be happy about that.

        And in normal circumstances, if I took a question about purple teapots to my boss, she would tell me, “Why are you asking me about this? Fergus is in charge of purple teapots.”

        So if I take it to her, it pretty much has to be in the context of “Fergus isn’t doing his job.” If I tried to play dumb about it, my boss would think I’m being dumb.

        I don’t know the extent to which my boss knows how much Fergus ignores the basic functions of his job. His work is a mess, but she doesn’t ever spot check it. I know because I’m often the one assigned tasks like “can you find out the average weight of a teapot?” or something and then I go looking at other people’s teapots, and Fergus’s are often a disaster. I know she can’t possibly know the extent of it because she just gave him a promotion (title only, his job is the same).

  173. Em.*

    I’m having something of a personal career crisis–I’ve been in a position for 2.5 years now and I see no room for advancement, so I’m seeking employment elsewhere. The problem is that I have been in admin positions, and don’t feel I have many qualifications or experience outside of that. I interviewed for (and didn’t get) an admin assistant position where they told me in no uncertain terms that this would be a “career admin role,” and I’m very afraid I’ve gotten myself stuck. I don’t have any big career goals, but I also don’t want to be an assistant my whole life. I’m trying to find a role where I can find growth, but I have an English degree, no internships (my parents would not have had the money to support me during an unpaid internship in the fields I would have pursued during college), and a string of admin assistant jobs. Am I screwed?

    1. Ambpersand*

      I don’t think so- admin work can easily lead into project support (and project management down the line) if you get the right opportunities. I would suggest taking some classes or getting some certifications in a field you’re interested in, and volunteering with similar organizations. That would help you boost your resume outside of strictly admin work and maybe help to open some doors.

    2. AnonGD*

      For what it’s worth there are some interesting admin assistant roles out there. I work for a university and the admin assistant in our development group does some pretty specialized and kind of cool sounding stuff. She’s almost like a private detective– hunting down information about how much people make, where they live, how much their homes are worth– all to help the team develop a profile of a person. The great thing about a role like that is that she could move into a different role from this job fairly easily if she wanted to, even though her title is technically just admin assistant.

    3. Former Admin Turned Project Manager*

      I was prepared to be a career admin (moving up to higher level executive/governance/shareholder support), but had a bit of a detour as the result of a reorganization.

      My advice is to keep looking, since many admin jobs are not “career admin,” and to pursue training (if you can find some sort of “project management for non project managers” to start- Lynda.com is a good place to look). My current job title is not actually Project Manager, but the training I got through Lynda.com in project management was enough to give me the basic PM skills I needed to run the processes I have to oversee in my current position.

    4. sparty*

      Not only what others have said, but if you get into a big organization, some of the executive admins pull in 6+ figures. I think the CEO’s admin one fortune 300 place I worked, who managed 2 other admins working in the CEO’s office was making around $150k.

  174. Future Analyst*

    On my 3rd manager in 18 months, and the current one is nice, but keeps saying “we” should do xyz. Tell me “do x,” or say, “I’ll do y,” but this “we” business is confusing/aggravating. Idk whose action item that is! /rant. Any suggestions for telling her (nicely) to knock it off? Or should I just ask for clarification every. single. time?

    1. Lalaith*

      Maybe choose the items that you’d most like to do, or make the most sense for you to do, and volunteer for them? Then she can either agree with you or clarify what she meant.

    2. Argh!*

      I use “we” a lot because I think of my unit as a team. In some places the grandboss sees unit accomplishment, not individual accomplishment. Also, individuals are protected if the entire unit is seen to be competent and essential. If you look at it that way, you can confirm your part of it by repeating back “So this is what’s on my plate…”

      This could also be a gendered thing. Have your previous bosses been male?

    3. LissyLou*

      “Can you clarify who you mean? When you say “we”, I want to make sure I know who’s managing each task”.

    4. tab*

      I used to tell my team members, “We need to do such and such, and when I say we, I mean you.” Fortunately, they appreciated my sense of humor…

  175. Fabulous*

    My boss keeps complimenting me on things and I don’t know how to respond. Terrible problem to have, I know.

    I’ve never been good at accepting praise so I’m always at a loss of what to say. She works remotely so it’s always something over IM or email, a quick “SOP looks great!!” or “Great job on the presentation!!” Obviously I’m not going to say, “Thanks, it took forever to fix all the old data that Sharon put together,” or “Glad you think it went well… I really just winged it!” because that just seems super unprofessional and probably highlights my impostor syndrome.

    So what CAN I say to these things?! It feels sp incredibly awkward just giving a simple “Thanks.”

    1. LissyLou*

      “Thank you!”

      Or maybe, “Thank you! That project was difficult, but I’m glad you’re pleased with the result.”

      Really, that’s all you need.

    2. Reba*

      “That’s great to hear.”

      “I worked so hard on that, it’s wonderful to hear that it was well received!”

      If she’s passing on other people’s compliments, “I’m glad the C-suite liked it.” “Thanks for sharing.”

      I truly understand the awkward, but it doesn’t have to be a big deal! After all, you are Fabulous.

    3. ZVA*

      A simple “Thanks” may feel awkward, but it won’t come across that way! And it’s really all that’s needed.

      You can vary it by saying something like “Awesome, thanks for letting me know” or “Thanks, so glad you liked it!” or “Great, thank you!” or whatever. You’re just acknowledging and thanking her for the feedback; doesn’t need to be more complex than that & I’m sure it will feel less awkward with time.

  176. AllieRay*

    I’m desperately trying to find a job, but am not sure how to overcome several hindering factors.

    I have 3 jobs on my resume, all post graduate school. The first ended in a layoff after 1 year (company had economic issues), the second I left after 5 years for another job that conducted layoffs after 3 months (they closed my sector, this job is not included on my resume due to short time period), and the third I was fired from after a year (I was unable to transfer to another city). I know this screams “unreliable job-hopper”.

    In the nearly 1.5 years since I’ve been unemployed, I’ve obtained my PMP and spent several hundred hours volunteering. I’ve had several phone/in person interviews, but no offers. I live in a very large city, and have asked the few contacts I do have if they know of any openings, to no avail. I told the employment agencies that I’d be willing to do admin work, but they think that wouldn’t be feasible with my MBA and PMP. Should I just leave those off my resume? Id be worried that someone would find out or I’d never be allowed to advance because I lied on the application.

    I’ve posted on my LinkedIn account that I’m looking, have registered with multiple recruiting agencies, and search job boards several days each week. My resume and cover letter follow AAM guidelines, and are tailored to each position I apply for. My references are excellent-I’m in contact with all of them, and have no doubt they will vouch for me and the quality of my work.

    Another obstacle is that I am very unsure how to go about networking when my jobs have all been in different fields, and I only have multiple years experience in the field I really didn’t like.

    I have no idea what my next steps should be at this point. Any ideas at all?

    1. Reba*

      FWIW I don’t think 1 year + 5 years + 1 year = “unreliable job hopper.”

      Good luck, AllieRay.

      1. AnonGD*

        Yes! We just went through hiring a position and the only applicant we dismissed as a job hopper had worked in like 8 different jobs in 4 years. I’m sorry I can’t be more helpful outside of that but at least I can reaffirm Reba’s comment.

      2. AllieRay*

        Thanks, guys. I wasn’t sure how that would come off since I didn’t I didn’t purposely leave either short term position. Of course, you dont list reasons for leaving on your resume.

        A recruiter said my 1.5 year unemployment is the part that looks the worst.

        1. Buu*

          You should be filling that 1.5 year gap with the volunteer stuff if it’s relevent.
          What field do you want to work in? I know a lot of admin work is done via agencies but keep looking in local ads for smaller firms or start ups even if it’s part time.

          Good luck!

  177. BadPlanning*

    My coworker, who I was starting to think of Useless Coworker, just announced that he’s leaving.

    I guess I’ll find out if he was really useless or not. I’m guessing we won’t get a back fill.

  178. aproprose*

    My boss recently gave me some constructive feedback that while I excel at analytics and exceeding my goals, I can continue to build my “soft skills,” specifically in the area of influencing others, whether it be my vendors or upper management, in order to get what I want. She’s working on giving me some specific examples, but in the meantime, does anyone have any books or resources they’d recommend on this?

    1. periwinkle*

      This might sound so old-fashioned and cliched, but… I recently read Dale Carnegie’s “How To Win Friends and Influence People.” It was written in 1937 and while the book’s examples are obviously dated, the central principles remain valid and easy to understand.

  179. Professor Ash*

    I’ve got a bit of an odd situation and I’m not sure what to do about it…

    I’m an adjunct professor in STEM and I’ve been at the same college for 2 years. I have to reapply for my position this coming year because I will be teaching an advanced course. Let’s say I currently teach “Introduction to Pokemon” and next year one of my courses would be “Analysis of Pokemon Evolution”. I have had many students ask if I’ll be returning next year, and I have been telling them that I’ve applied but nothing is certain. Two of my students asked who they should talk to about my teaching, because they like how I run my classroom, feel like they’ve learned a lot, etc. So I told them that if they wanted to talk to someone their best bet would be the head of the department and the Dean.

    *To be clear: While I was aware they were sending an email, I did not instruct my students to do so. I also did not tell them what to say in their email. I don’t actually know what they said in the email.*

    Earlier this week I was informed by a STEM professor in another department that the students had told her that they’d received a response to their email from the head of my department. It seems that one of the things the students said in the email was that the college should hire me. The department chair’s response was apparently along the lines of “Well, I want to hire someone who can teach more than just ‘Introduction to Pokemon’,” and “You shouldn’t have emailed the Dean because the department makes the final decisions on who to hire”.

    In graduate school I had extensive coursework on “Analysis of Pokemon Evolution” and similar topics so that I would be qualified to teach said topics. My department chair knows this.

    I’ve been applying to many other jobs, so I’m not putting all my eggs in this basket, and I definitely have some solid prospects. If I get an offer from another college I will probably take it.

    The questions I have are:
    I currently have the department chair listed as a reference. Do I ask someone else to be a reference for me for any other jobs I apply for?
    If I do get another job, do I tell the department head that I’m aware of what he said? Do I tell the Dean? I know the other STEM professor encouraged the students to let the Dean know about the department chair’s response but I have no idea if they’ve done so.
    If I am offered the job here (seems unlikely based on the chair’s comments but you never know) and I take it, how do I continue working for/with someone who I now know has this negative impression of me?

    1. Reba*

      Wow. Sorry your great student feedback was soured by your jerk Chair.

      It sounds like you may be suffering from the very unjust Adjunct stigma there.

      Could you ask the students for written comments that you can use to strengthen future applications?

      1. Professor Ash*

        I do encourage all of my students to fill out the course evaluations at the end of the semester, but I might start suggesting that students could give me written comments if they feel so inclined.

          1. Professor Ash*

            It really is amazing. I am grateful to have students who believe so strongly in what I’m doing that they actually take the time to email TPTB. They really are fantastic, and the main reason that I love my job.

    2. PieInTheBlueSky*

      I’ve never been an academic, and I’m just some random person on the internet, but here’s my opinion, for what it’s worth. If it were me, I would say nothing and pretend I didn’t know anything about this. This information is second-hand (or third-hand?) info that has been passed to me. I don’t even know what was originally said. Even if it were all true, how would I explain to the chair that I knew about some private communication he/she had with these students? And tangentially, why did these students even discuss this with a prof in another department?

      Encourage your students to write positive comments in your class evaluations. Use the evals as evidence of your teaching skill. Hopefully you will get the job and be able to teach the advanced Pokemon class. If the students of that class leave good comments in your class evals, maybe your chair will look more favorably towards you.

      1. Professor Ash*

        As much as I am fantasizing about coming up with the perfect response to my chair, I agree that saying nothing is by far the best course of action.

        This is my understanding of why the students brought it up to the other professor:
        -They were in lab with her at the time, and had received the response just before coming to lab
        -They were very upset on my behalf – they couldn’t understand why a positive email got a negative response – but they weren’t sure what they should do
        -They knew if they told her what had happened that she would have a better idea of what the best course of action would be
        -They know that she and I often talk, and that she’d feel comfortable passing the message along

        I feel lucky to already have 3 semesters worth of overwhelmingly positive course evaluations, and I always encourage my students to be honest in the evals. I tell them that, especially for pre-tenure or non-tenure track professors, evals carry a lot of weight. I’m anticipating another strong semester of evals, so hopefully that helps my case.

    3. Anony*

      Since you did not see the email and are hearing about it from someone who also did not see the email, it is possible that the department chair’s comment was more neutral that it came across to you. I’m not sure if he was implying that you did not have the skills to teach “Analysis of Pokemon Evolution” or just trying to tell the students that while they know you are great at teaching “Introduction to Pokemon” they are still evaluating your qualifications for the advanced course as well as the qualifications of the other people who applied. As far as using him for a reference, I’m not sure you can avoid it. It seems like it would be difficult to apply for jobs in academia without using your current chair as a reference. Can you talk to any of your coworkers about it? Maybe the stem professor in the other department?

      1. Professor Ash*

        It is hard to know exactly what he was implying, to be sure. I think the thing that has been weirding everyone out is the fact that he responded to the email with his thoughts on my qualifications. Even if it was fairly neutral, I’m not sure that response was warranted. It would have been less effort to just not reply at all.

        I’ve been considering asking another colleague if he’d feel comfortable writing a recommendation, but my department is small so it would take no time at all to get back to the department chair. I don’t want to jeopardize my chances at jobs for which I’ve already put him down as a reference. And it’s true that not having a recommendation from your department chair can look bad. I’d love to ask the other STEM professor, but this is her first year at the college. I suspect committees would find it odd that I wasn’t asking someone from my department, or someone more experienced.

        1. Anony*

          I meant more ask her for advice on how to proceed. If she is new that is not as helpful, but it could be useful to get someone’s opinion who knows the chair and can better predict whether he is likely to be a good reference or not. For example, if he is known for awkward communication with students in general then it is less concerning. Or maybe he doesn’t think you are a good fit for this position but would still be a good reference for other positions. Those are hard to judge from a third hand email.

    4. TL -*

      Honestly, this sounds like politics-posturing to me – “I’m the leader! I make the decisions!” – rather than anything concerning about you. My guess is that the Dean read & responded to those emails in a moment of frustration about someone else who wasn’t respecting his authority.

  180. Don't Ignore the Core*

    What is the purpose of flexible scheduling/core hours if managers are not required to take them into account when scheduling meetings and training?

    I am now working from 6:30 to 5:00 two days per week, because a 9-to-5-er with more clout than me prefers end-of-day meetings. I am not pleased.

    1. Argh!*

      I love people who consistently make phone calls about urgent matters 5 minutes after my assistant has left for the day. That position has had the same schedule for at least ten years.

      I have to come in early for meetings rather often. I absolutely hate it, and I sometimes forget because it means giving myself a reminder at home, vs. the early-schedule people who come off looking great because Outlook reminds them after they’ve gotten to work.

      Overlapping schedules are a great idea, but some people can’t get the hang of it.

    3. Earthwalker*

      Did you mention it to the 9-5er? I appreciated my hard working 5-2 project team member reminding me when I mistakenly scheduled a meeting after 2:00 because I forgot that 2:00 was end of the day for her.

  181. Skipjack*

    How weird is it to send a revised resume to a hiring manager? I’ve significantly updated my descriptions of my roles, and it’s now clear that I’m in a strategic role instead of just being an analyst. The hiring manager is a friend of a friend, so it’s not a fully formal relationship, but I really want to work at the organization! They aren’t currently hiring but I’m worried that my lackluster resume wil hold me back when they start again.

    1. designbot*

      if it were me, I think I’d wait until I saw a particular position posted, then email to reconnect, express interest in the position, and be like btw, I’ve attached an updated resume for your convenience. I think if you email her for no reason other than the update it just looks desperate.

      1. AnonGD*

        We just went through hiring for a role in my org and someone emailed us an updated resume midway through the process. I didn’t find it that off-putting but my boss was REALLY bothered by it– her gut instinct was to assume the original resume must have been inaccurate/contained falsehoods (extreme, but that was her honest initial reaction). So I agree with designbot here.

      2. Skipjack*

        I should have clarified – they email the strongest candidates on file a few weeks before posting anything publicly. Does that change the calculus any or nah?

        1. Anony*

          How long ago did you submit your resume to them? If it was a year ago, go ahead and update. If it was a month ago, wait. Alternately, ask your friend what they think.

  182. Luna123*

    I posted in the January 19-20 open thread about how my boss fired her whole staff when she found out we were IMing each other during work hours, and I just wanted to give an update:

    I filed for unemployment, was denied, and had the appeal hearing a couple of days ago. It was amazing listing to Jane say, unprompted, that I was a model employee for over a year, that I never signed an internet use policy, and that she fired me along with the others instead of just giving a warning because she was worried I’d be upset and quit my job anyway.

    I’m still job searching, but it’s good to know that she thought I *was* a good employee (IMing at work aside).

    Anyway, does anyone have any advice for how to talk about this job in interviews in a diplomatic way? It was my first real job and the one I gained most of my work skills at, so I don’t want to leave it off my resume. I liked the work and the people there, but I don’t know how to talk about Jane/how I got fired without crossing into badmouthing territory. In past interviews I’ve said (paraphrasing), “Jane discovered that her staff were IMing each other and fired all of us as soon as she found out. IMing during work definitely not appropriate and will be really easy to not repeat in the future.” Is that enough detail? Too much? Too little?

    1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      Yikes. Jane is…wow.

      I’m not sure about the nature of the IMing because I didn’t see your previous comment, but without context, I’d be a little confused because it seems like a lot of people on here have jobs where they actually use IMing for work (and also sometimes for socializing at work, like a separate Slack channel for socialization).

      1. Luna123*

        We started IMing because every time we talked to each other for more than five minutes (even if it was a work conversation!), Jane came by and said we were distracting her. The IMing was done without her permission and was about 60% socializing (we had a lot of downtime) and 40% work talk.

        1. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

          Okay, gonna have to repeat the “Yikes. Jane is…wow.” part of my comment here.

    2. Argh!*

      “I was laid off along with [number of] other employees. I learned a lot there and I’m ready to move on.”

      1. Karo*

        I definitely wouldn’t say laid off. That’s very different from a firing, and easily verifiable if they call anyone from the company.

    3. Karo*

      I wouldn’t get into “IM isn’t appropriate” because in a lot of workplaces it is – and in some workplaces it’s the preferred method of communication.

      I went back and found your old comment where you mentioned that the IM was for work (and non-work) stuff – I think I’d say something like “my entire workplace was let go for using IM instead of face-to-face communications” (or whatever Jane’s preferred method of communication was), which just sounds insane.

    4. Anonymous Poster*

      That’s… so odd. I’m sorry that happened.

      My workplaces regularly use IM. I’d estimate it’s 50/50 personal and work related, but the work related is a lot easier for everyone. There isn’t yelling over the cubicles, or in some instances where people are remote, a phone call. The phone calls also wouldn’t always go through because people are on a telecon, or have their phones automatically silence during work hours… like mine.

      Side bar, having the phone automatically silence all notifications during work hours has been a godsend for my concentration. Highly recommended to anyone that’s allowed to do that.

      Either way, it’s hard because how do you not diss the past employer and stay neutral… maybe Alison can think of something, but it’s a tough one.

      Maybe something like:
      “The entire department was fired for using instant messenger during the course of the day to speak with one another, and the supervisor did not approve of that form of communication.”
      “My department installed an instant messenger client that was not approved by our supervisor to prevent talking over the cubicles to one another, and we were fired for it. I have learned how important it is to adhere to IT policies and intend to always double check and make sure I fully understand whatever policies an organization has in place going forward…”

      I dunno, I can’t think of a great response to that.

      2. Luna123*

        I really like the first option — mostly because my old workplace didn’t have an IT department, or even a written internet-use policy (it was a really small company: Jane is the owner).

        1. Anonymous Poster*

          Ah, yeah, given that it was Jane Co. and there wasn’t anything documented about this, then I think the first option really is the way to go. You aren’t saying, “Jane is a crazy control freak who is also, by the way, incredibly insecure,” but rather that you were all fired as a group for using a system she didn’t want.

          I’d expect follow up questions, because I’d want to learn more. Maybe about if there was a documented policy you were violating (No, nothing documented), if there was an IT person you were supposed to run things past (No), what was the nature of the use (split about even between personal and work), and others.

          I think an employer is going to want to know if you learned something from being fired, and would go in assuming people don’t get fired in a pique of anger over someone using an IM system. That’s what I’m struggling to message. It would give me pause, and I’d wonder what else was going on because that’s so bizarre. I’m really struggling with this one though.

          1. Luna123*

            The company has been going through some financial pressures in the last year, and I know Jane’s really bad at handling stress. I think she might have seen firing us as a way to take control of *something* and also as a cost-cutting measure.

            I’ve learned that I’m going to be a LOT more selective about my next employer. If we sit down for an interview and the first thing out of their mouth is, “God, I’ve had SUCH problems with finding good employees! I’ve gone through two assistants in four months and I just can’t find someone good enough!” I’m going to politely get up and leave, lol.

            But also, I think I’m going to be a lot more direct in asking for feedback, especially if my boss suddenly starts moving everyone’s desks around or coming up to me and asking what I’m doing all the time when previously they didn’t do that.

          2. Luna123*

            Also, thanks so much for this advice! It’s really useful to learn what information a potential employer is looking for. :)

    5. valc2323*

      In my workplace we are encouraged to use IM for conversations that are a lot of one-line-back-and-forth so that we reduce the burden on the email servers. A Skype exchange with each person typing five lines is better than ten emails to say the same thing. As others noted, it’s also quieter – we never have the illusion of privacy in our IM system, so it’s not a place for a private conversation, but it is a way to have a conversation with the person in the office next to mine without the person across the hall from both of us joining in. We also use it a lot for sidebar conversations if two of us are on the same conference call but not in the same room.

      All that to say, IMing during work may very well be appropriate depending on where you work!

  183. TGIF*

    If you leave early, do you still take a lunch? Some of my colleagues leave early and still take an hour lunch, but is that okay to do? Does it depend on the company?

    1. Ambpersand*

      In my experience, that time has to be made up elsewhere. Whether that’s coming in early, staying late, or working through lunch.

    2. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      I didn’t take a lunch, but, honestly, I had so little work to do at that job that I probably could have. It also wasn’t a regular thing–on especially slow days when I really wanted to get out of there, I’d just tell my boss I was skipping lunch and was planning to leave early. And then other times I’d be busy specifically during lunchtime (I did a lot of driving at that job) and just wouldn’t think about lunch, so I’d leave early then too.

    3. Manders*

      In my state, if you’re non-exempt, you’re required to take a certain amount of time as a lunch break if you’ve worked for a certain number of hours. The law’s really strict about this and you can’t skip it or shorten it. So this may be a regional thing as well as a company thing.

    4. Anita-ita*

      IMO it depends on where you live, how strict the company is on exempt vs. non-exempt, and on your boss. On Fridays we always leave about an hour early and I still take my lunch, no one has said otherwise. There have been times I’ve asked my boss if I can leave at 3 (I work 8-5 with one hour lunch) and have mentioned that I’ll stay for lunch and he always insists that I take it.

    5. AnonyAnony*

      Part of it depends on whether the employee is exempt or non-exempt. In my exempt jobs, whether or not I took lunch and then left early often depended on where I was with the workload. If I didn’t have a lot of work to get done, I might take lunch and still leave early. In my non-exempt jobs, I was paid for 8 hours of work in addition to taking an hour lunch. So I would account for however many hours were actually worked in the day and charge PTO for the remainder. For example, work 8 a.m.-noon, take and hour lunch, and then work 1-3 p.m. would be 6 hours worked and 2 hours PTO.

      For non-exempt, one factor could be state law. Some states require that hourly employees cannot work more than a specified number of hours before taking an unpaid break. I worked in a state once where an hourly employee couldn’t work more than 5 consecutive hours without an unpaid break. In that case, the employee couldn’t work straight through and leave early.

    6. Earthwalker*

      It does depend on the company. Ask. My company had a rule that exempt workers had to have at least 9 hours between start time and quit time whether they worked through lunch or not, because “we know you’ll spend an hour taking breaks sometime during the day.” We were also told “…and if you are doing only 9 hours most days you are barely scraping by and should talk to your supervisor about your performance.” Company rules can be less intuitive than you might expect.

  184. educator*

    I just read the post Allison linked to about not being held hostage to a bad employee, and wow, this could have been written for my workplace. My coworker Fergus is underqualified and has bullied me, two of the admins, parents, and his students. The grandboss and another admin, Jane, are just hoping he’ll leave on his own (why he would do that? I don’t know) because of the fear he’ll badmouth us to the community (also, Jane made a comment the other day that she’d never experienced Fergus acting badly? even though Jane is new).

    Anyway, those other two admin have some authority over hiring decisions, so I’m hoping grandboss + Jane don’t pressure them into keeping Fergus on much longer.

    1. Windchime*

      Bad employees often know to rein in the bad behavior when someone in a position of power is around. I had a manager who was a mean bully, but she said everything in a nice, calm voice and so it took years for the higher-ups to understand what was going on and finally fire her. YEARS. Sometimes it never happens. Employees leave in droves and cite the bully as the cause, and the big-wigs continue to shrug and say, “Huh. I’ve not noticed that.”

  185. RoadsLady*

    An odd question that came into my mind for curiosity: dresscode exceptions for cultural/religious reasons. For the record, I support such exceptions when reasonable.

    But how do explain it or make up for it to people not in the know, like clients?

    1. Canadian Natasha*

      I can’t think of any religious/cultural dress code exceptions that wouldn’t be quite obvious as to what they are. Hijabs, turbans and kirtans, head wraps, amish/mennonite/hutterite dress & head coverings, saris, traditional styles of facial hair, and the like shouldn’t really be confusing to an average client.

      But if someone asked I would say something to the effect of “Our company believes it is important to respect the religious and cultural differences of out clients and employees and we hope our dress code reflects this value.” (Reworded to sound less stuffy)

    2. RoadsLady*

      I found myself thinking of more subtle things, like a woman from a background where wearing a long skirt was important but no real specifics beyond that… just more covered. Since long skirts are generally consisted less professional.

      1. Canadian Natasha*

        Ah. I haven’t run into the long skirt thing alone in my experience. Usually it seems to be combined with things like very long braided hair and no makeup which I would recognize as a certain religous background. But I do think you could use the same type of reply in either case.

        Of course if I were someone in charge I’d still require the skirt to be formal material and style (narrower a-line or pencil skirts in a tightly woven fabric) and not casual (jean or cargo skirts or those multicoloured hippie/boho skirts).

      2. Agathe_M*

        I don’t think you need to explain–I think the best thing you can do is show them that, in your example, the woman-in-the-long-skirt is an important part of your team and just as professional as the rest of you, no matter how long her skirt may be. (Which hopefully you’d do through behaviour anyway.)

        But also, you don’t have to “make up for” anything, unless your clients are (a) weirdly sensitive and (b) jerks, in which case very little you do will help them not be. I don’t know many people who view long skirts as personal insults.

    3. Someone else*

      I tend to think any dress code that would require exceptions for religious dress is probably not a very good dress code to begin with. I think the ideal is that it’s written in such a way as to define what’s required/disallowed such that any religious-required clothing would already be covered and included as acceptable.

  186. Anonypotamus*

    A manager in my department (who I don’t directly or indirectly report to) gave me some “advice” on being professional. Last week, I overheard her making racist jokes about one of her donors. Umm…thanks, but I don’t think I’ll be following her example!

  187. Alice*

    Tuition reimbursement — does your company offer this? Is it limited to $5,250/year? Over that amount, you’d have to start paying taxes on it.
    My company limits it to that amount — but at the public university in my state, a single three-credit course is 2.5K, or 3K with mandatory fees. If you took three a year, you’d be on the hook for a ton of money.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      My company doesn’t offer tuition reimbursement, but I’ve worked at a company that does, and there’s a cap (not sure how much it is, it was a while ago). I don’t think that’s an unreasonable thing. Look at it this way: if you took three courses a year and didn’t get any kind of reimbursement, then you’d be out even more money. I think it’s a nice perk to soften the blow. Now, if your company required you to get a specific degree (or take certain courses), then I might feel slightly differently.

    2. Red Reader*

      Our limit is $3k per academic year for undergrad and $3600/year for graduate school, that covers reimbursement for tuition and technology fees.

    3. periwinkle*

      Mine offers $10,000 a year for undergrad studies, $10,000 a year for graduate certificates and individual courses, and $25,000 a year for graduate degrees; this covers just about all STEM and business programs of study. It’s paid directly by a company voucher rather than reimbursement so you’re not out of pocket. We may have a lot of issues at this company, but the tuition benefit is certainly stellar (unless you want an M.A. in art history, you’re on your own for that).

  188. Dagnabbit*

    It looks like I have a very serious job prospect, which I’m very excited about, as I only finished taking the bar exam two weeks ago. It will be a great starting point in my career. Trying not to get too bummed about the fact that I’m 29 and only just starting my career and focus on the positives.

  189. Taylor Klein*

    Perks from my company that keep great employees:
    160 PTO hours (even for new hires and just goes up every 3 years your here)
    Tuition Reimbursement (cant remember exact amount and they offer discounts with the local colleges)
    Telecommuting after 3 months of employment (i would say a good 1/3 dept telecommutes)
    Company discount site (example: free gym membership, discounts on restaurants, cellphones, cars, education, etc.)

  190. Batshua*

    Folks with ADHD, autism, or sensory issues:

    How do you cope at work? I just bought some new fidget toys, but I honestly feel more restless than ever, because I still … don’t have enough work to do most of the time. There IS no other work I can take on, because I’m a front desk staff member. I literally just check people in, schedule folks, and answer phones. I used to have other “optional” duties, but we got new scheduling rules, and my boss took that work away from me, which means 4-6 hours of my day can be EMPTY. I am crawling the walls with boredom. I am hoping for the day to be busy, and for some day for me to get the “optional” duties back.

    1. Batshua*

      (Back when I had optional duties, I had work almost all day long, and it was great. I *am* looking for a new job, mostly because I have have time-in-grade to “level up”, but that is not a quick process.)

    2. David S. Pumpkins (formerly katamia)*

      ADHDer. I read a lot of webcomics and news sites when I was an admin assistant (and am hoping to avoid having similar jobs). This was before MOOCs and such were really a thing, though–now I’d probably try to do something more productive with my time like learn a new work skill. I’d also volunteer to drive (picking up lunches, basic courier-type stuff) when I could because I liked driving so much better than being in the office–I could listen to my own music, didn’t have to put up with my coworkers (most of whom I had nothing in common with), and it would really eat up a nice chunk of the day. I don’t know your thoughts on driving, though, or whether your company has a need for people to drive.

      Is there anyone else you could ask for work besides your boss?

      1. Batshua*

        If we had other errands I was allowed to do, I’d totally be doing them, but there’s no driving in my job, and I’m the only one on this desk, so I’m not even really allowed to leave for more than 5 minutes.

        There isn’t really anyone else to ask, at least as far as I know.

        The busy days are great!

        The not so busy days are terrible; technically I’m not supposed to do ANYTHING if I have no work, and that includes surfing the web, or reading online, doing literally anything else, no matter how trivial or easy to interrupt, even if I have NOTHING to do. It’s horrible for my sanity right now as I’m trying out ADHD medication for the first time, and we happen to be in a slump.

        I hear that come the summer, things will get INSANELY busy, so…

        And yes, I’m discussing boredom with my ADHD therapist. Constantly.

        I just don’t want to start hating my job, but I’m … at a loss?

        2. valentine*

          Can you ask for more work or to be able to do nonwork stuff as an accommodation? Your doctor could write a supporting note saying just that it’s to preserve/promote your health, without mentioning the ADHD. It would probably help to specify/negotiate, for example, taking online courses, if the reason is a weird government rule or optics.

  191. buffty*

    I and another colleague (Kira) were confronted by another colleague (Janet) the other day, and I’m not sure how to deal with it. We are all on the same level as far as job title is concerned, but Kira and I take on more responsibility and have more leadership experience than Janet and our other same-level colleague, Josh, so senior leadership does tend to come to us more often to consult on writing policy and proposing organizational changes. Janet was upset because Kira and I did not discuss an upcoming change with her or Josh, and really took us to task for “offending” her and “not being a team”. Kira and I both responded along the lines of “I understand your frustration, but this was not our place to discuss. This is a conversation you should be having with Boss.” She accused us of being mad at her for even bringing it up, and for intentionally excluding her and making her feel like an outcast. She snapped at me at one point, and became very emotional and talked extensively about her feelings of loneliness in her life. She ended the discussion by crying and leaving abruptly, and now she’s off for a long weekend. I’m empathetic, but I think this is a personal issue on her part and we’ve not been exclusionary at all, just the opposite. Frankly, I feel that she was out of line for the way she confronted us, but I’m not holding my breath for an apology. Next time I see her, we will be teaching a training together, which I had previously invited her to teach with me.

    If she does apologize, I’m not sure what to say, because I am not great at accepting apologies when I feel they are warranted. And if she doesn’t apologize, just proceed as normal? I don’t know, I’m not great at feelings in general, and prefer to keep them out of the workplace as much as possible.

    1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      Yeah, clearly this is about Janet’s own feelings of loneliness more than anything you’re doing or not doing and it wasn’t fair at all for her to put this on you. She could probably benefit from an EAP, if your employer has one. But even if you wanted to let her know about it (which you would not be obligated at all to do), there would be no non-awkward way for you to do it, since she approached you so combatively. This is a tough one.

      It depends on your team, so use your judgment, but consider mentioning to Boss that Janet told you she’s unhappy about how a recent situation was handled, just to keep Boss keyed in on some level. Then just be relentlessly businesslike whether she apologizes or not. If she apologizes, all you have to say is “I appreciate that.” You don’t have to say “it’s okay” if it’s really not, but if she apologizes, you should accept it and let it go. I also wouldn’t advise trying to address it directly with her if she doesn’t approach you first (unless this is a pattern of behavior, in which case more drastic measures are warranted, but if I understand correctly, you were blindsided because this is the first time something like this has happened). You don’t want to escalate unless you have to. It wasn’t fair of Janet to put you and Kira in this situation at all and it’s not fair that you have to suck up the awkwardness, but you did nothing wrong, so keep on keeping on like you normally would. Good luck.

      1. buffty*

        Thanks, that is helpful. I believe Boss is going to speak to her as well, not to chide her, but to help reset her expectations so that she understands that she won’t be privy to things just because Kira and I might be. Hopefully we can all just move along peacefully. I’m annoyed by it all, but mostly bewildered, so it will be easy to let go as long as it doesn’t happen again.

  192. blergarg*

    Question, weird one, please bear with me.

    Do you feel like you’re absolute *magic* in some places of your life, like you have really great skills and abilities, that you have respect and worth, but the second you get to work, it all disappears?

    I’m part of a fellowship program that focuses on leadership in non profit and politics. When I’m with my cohort, I feel amazing, like the sky is the limit, maybe the limit’s even higher. I’m happy, I feel fulfilled intellectually and like I am going places professionally (or will be).

    But that doesn’t happen at work. At work, I think people believe in me less, including my manager. Maybe because I kind of shrivel up when I’m there, and because I don’t feel entirely happy or comfortable there. I know that’s a sign that I should leave. I’m working on next steps to finding what makes me fulfilled, but it’s at least a year away.

    Until then, does anyone relate? What is that about? What do you do to MAKE people believe in you at work the way people do outside?

    1. AnonGD*

      FWIW I think there’s only so much you can do. Definitely make sure that you’re communicating regularly with your manager and that s/he knows you’re achieving everything you’re supposed to– and maybe even going above and beyond! If it’s not visible to them it could be contributing to the impression you’re getting that they don’t believe in you. One thing I wasn’t told early on was to keep and share the positive feedback you get from other people at work with your manager– if s/he sees that they may develop a better impression of you that way, as well.

      If you’re hitting all your deadlines and doing excellent work and your manager is still not recognizing you for that then it might just be that his/her management style is not a good fit for you. It happens! It’s definitely happened to me.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I absolutely relate. For me, I realized it’s more about the culture of my office than it is about me and my abilities. In my last role, I was excellent at my job but I was on a team with others who I felt outshone me and I could never quite live up to the potential I knew existed. I moved to a new job and a new team and am now able to embrace and live up to the expertise that I know I have but was never able to showcase in my last role.

    3. Chaordic One*

      This sounds like my two years in H.R. The vindication was that after I left, in the next six months 3 replacements all quit, the third one did last four months. It prompted my former supervisor to heavily revise the position and to redistribute the workload among the department. But still, it took going through 4 different people before she figured out that it wasn’t that the people in the position weren’t doing a bad job. The position was set up so that you didn’t have the time or the tools to succeed.

    4. Windchime*

      When I have felt like this, it was definitely the culture of my office being a mismatch for me. Once I moved to a different workplace, I started to feel the feelings of accomplishment and fulfillment again. I don’t know if there is anyway for you to *make* people believe in you if they don’t, other than to just do a really good, professional job to the best of your abilities. If they don’t appreciate that, then it could just be that you’re experiencing the culture mis-match.

  193. AlphabetSoupCity*

    Does anyone have any tips for a professional and accurate resume when your company, department, and title and degrees are all really long? I don’t want to shorten things or use unofficial titles/names, but if I don’t it takes up so much space to be accurate.

    My education is like this:
    University of Wabdlebooth, Trainstop, JK
    College of Llamas, Alpacas, and Lions, B.A. Grooming, Feeding, and Nurtition
    FancyPants G. Rich School of Dressage, B.A. Health & Horses

    Currently I have one position within a University but am split between 2 areas within different departments, E.G.:
    University of Wadlebooth Horse School Department of Inksplotted Horse Drawing and University of Wadlebooth Veterinary Services Department of Quality Assurance, Program on Shoes and Other Horse Stuff (PSOHS)

    With a title like:
    Horse and Donkey Area Expert Junior

    Everything is just so long and any advice is appreciated :)

    1. AnotherJill*

      For the later, I would do something like this:

      University of Wadlebooth xxxx to present
      Horse School Department of Inksplotted Horse Drawing
      Veterinary Services Department of Quality Assurance, Program on Shoes and Other Horse Stuff (PSOHS)

      For education, each of those things is generally each on a line, so unless they take up more than that, I wouldn’t worry about the length

      1. AnotherJill*

        The Horse School and Veterinary Services lines were indented when I hit submit but the lead space was removed. I would indent each of those lines.

  194. AMT*

    Can you think of polite but non-apologetic ways of saying, “I haven’t yet done the thing you asked me to do, not because there was any uncontrollable external delay, because I was doing other equally important stuff”? I’m a social worker at a hospital and I’ll often get several urgent requests at once, often followed by phone calls or office visits to know whether I’ve completed these requests. Everyone seems to think their request is the most important one and to somehow believe that when I say “I’ll do X today/this afternoon/this week/whatever,” it means that I’ll start on it immediately and complete it within the hour. What’s a good script for responding to these follow-up requests that doesn’t make me sound like I’ve dropped the ball?

    1. Temperance*

      I think it’s best to head it off at the pass and let the person know at the time that you need to visit several other patients first and then will get to their request.

      I would also ignore follow-up calls rather than answer them, if possible.

      1. AMT*

        I like this idea. I think I might appear so accessible and friendly that people don’t know I’m busy.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      “Don’t worry, I haven’t forgotten you, you’re on my list. But I’ve got a lot of other things on my list too, and I will get to yours this week, but probably not today.”

    3. Blue Eagle*

      I’m in the middle of something right now and I’ll be able to work on your project (or whatever) in 10 minutes/late this afternoon/tomorrow morning, etc and will let you know what it is completed.

  195. CG*

    I might just be a whole bunch of AAM tropes rolled into one this week. I have a minor BEC situation developing, a long-ago ex just got a job in my field and I’m going to have to work with them all the time, I had a ridiculous situation unfold on a business trip recently, and there’s an awkward coworker romantic situation (that I’m not involved in) negatively affecting my work life.

    I’m not looking for advice, but I am glad it’s Friday, glad for AAM, and glad for great fellow commenters to make me think and boost my mood.

  196. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

    After three months, we were moved back to our old location. IT SUCKS. We’re still sandwiched between teams who talk loudly all day. Worst of all, the product owner went back and forth with the delivery date, so we rushed like mad to meet a deadline that no one but us took seriously.
    On the bright side, I was approached by a HR rep for a position that would be a field change and could also bring the salary bump I want. The downside is that the training process involves flying and staying at their head office for two weeks, which could be a problem deepening on when it takes place.

  197. RoadsLady*

    I actually did email this one in, but there were some updates… so I’m going to ask here:

    I had a suspicion the coach brought in for help-requested, siding-with-us-teachers, absolutely and completely non-evaluating coaching was, in fact, evaluating me.

    This turned out to be true. Besides the notes on students and my teaching I asked him to take, he was taking notes on me in an evaluating manner contrary to what we were told.

    The notes weren’t bad, but they were used to officially evaluate me and I feel betrayed. This was just one more thing in a list of a school with an already difficult population. I declared I would be leaving at the end of the year.

    My question… is this normal and kosher? To bring in a coach, say they are not there to evaluate, and then use their notes to officially evaluate in place of someone who is supposed to?

    1. Julianne*

      This doesn’t sound right at all. If you have a union, I would reach out to them about it. If not, maybe speak to a senior colleague who you trust and who might offer some guidance.

      (I will say that if the notes had been quite bad – like, if they reflected that you were doing an egregiously bad job in the classroom – I think that could justifiably be used as a launching point for your evaluator to dig deeper and possibly initiate a PIP, but it is clear from your post that this was not the case here. I’m only mentioning it to suggest that coaching data shouldn’t necessarily be sheltered from evaluators 100% of the time, but it sounds like your case is a situation where it was used inappropriately.)

      2. RoadsGirl*

        Yeah. There was a form that was used among administration team where anyone could read stuff, which is fine, and I get wanting to use that to dig deeper if a red flag went up, but when Mr. Bob’s notes from a coaching session wind up an evulation, I wasn’t pleased.

        I tried to tell myself the different was such a fine line, but in the end it didn’t seem right at all, especially after being told Mr. Bob’s stuff would not be used for evaluative purposes. Again, it was the proverbial straw and it past time to move on to different things, but… yeah.

  198. DoctorateStrange*

    A friend of mine works in a different department and her supervisor has the worst traits to have for a supervisor—she plays favorites and is absolutely spineless.

    My friend is thinking about leaving in a year and this means she will have to move. I am so upset that this had to lead to this when said supervisor should have shaped up.

  199. Me--Blargh*

    MAJOR ANXIETY POST– halp!

    I found this job ad for an admin/marketing coordinator that sounded like one person doing three jobs (it’s a small structural and forensic engineering business). I laughed at it in my chat room, and two people urged me to apply for it. I rolled my eyes but applied and said, “Okay, but they’re not gonna call me.”

    Not even ten minutes later, they called me. I have an interview on Wednesday. I’m unsure how to address a few things in the interview.

    1. The job listing says candidates must have a background in basic marketing — digital marketing, social media and PR. Whaaat!? I do not. The most I’ve ever done is mail brochures and samples. I said in my cover letter flat out I wanted to learn more about project management, but that I’ve never worked in marketing, just written keyword articles (not copywriting) and managed mailing lists. That’s not marketing! Why did they even call me? They may say “Oh blah blah, we can teach you, it is just mailing stuff, blah blah,” but if they don’t, what should I ask or say?

    2. The listing also says “Possible drafting tasks as necessary,” and “AutoCAD preferred but not required.” WTF??

    I took a job as a receptionist once, at an accounting firm, and they wanted me to do a client’s payroll. Oh hell no. (Plus the office manager was a bitch so that lasted about three days.) At least this job mentioned it–that job said NOTHING about it until I had already been hired. And that plus what happened at Exjob is a major reason I’m being open about my dyscalculia–I don’t want an employer to think I just don’t want to do a thing when I actually can’t do it. What does this mean? Why would they make [their receptionist] do drafting stuff? It’s not an internship.

    3. I can’t tell if they have any other admins–it appears not to be the case, since the duties as described seem to cover 1) the front desk; 2) marketing; 3) regular admin things–meeting set-up, etc.; 4) this mysterious drafting thing. So they have one person doing all this? Does this person have ANY backup at all? Are they even allowed to go to a doctor’s appointment?

    Someone said it sounded like they needed an admin bad, but it also sounds to me like they need more than one person. I have questions like “Can you give me an idea of the typical workload,” and “What are some of the challenges I might encounter if I take on this position,” from Alison’s playbook but can I ask “What does work/life balance look like at this company?” I really want to ask if they’re planning to hire more people long-term, because this sounds untenable.

    I’m afraid I’ll find myself in a situation where I can’t ever take time off to interview even if it turns out to suck. Plus, why would they call me if I don’t meet the criteria? There is one mention of reviewing technical reports, a thing that is front and center on my resume. But that is a marketable skill, not just a damn job duty, and editing while answering eleventy-million phone calls sucks so bad I never did it while covering front desk at Exjob. I waited until I got back to my desk.

    I hate the front desk. I hate answering the phone. Why can’t I find a job that isn’t front desk? *bangs head on the floor* No one else has called me. Ima ask for at least $15 an hour. They won’t pay it; I’ll bet you the equivalent of a dollar in the currency of your choice.

    1. LCL*

      There’s a few likely scenarios going on here. The first is they are looking for is an engineer/engineer intern who knows how to do admin stuff also. And marketing!
      Another scenario is that they know they really need an admin person and a marketing person but because they are engineers don’t understand that those can be wildly divergent tasks.
      Some old time engineers believe that engineering is the only true mental discipline, and to hire a qualified person they just need to find that bright engineering student and they should be able to train him to do whatever needs to be done.

      If you want to apply for this job, be very clear in the interview that you have no engineering background, no drafting, no CAD. Then tell them what you can do for them. It also reads like they want to expand their business-structural is before the fact and forensic is after the fact. You might be doing a lot of proposals and cold calls.

      Famous talking points for structural engineers that may derail the interview but get them talking; the failure of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge (Galloping Gertie) and FIU pedestrian bridge collapse.

      Because this place is described

      2. Me--Blergh*

        Another scenario is that they know they really need an admin person and a marketing person but because they are engineers don’t understand that those can be wildly divergent tasks.
        Some old time engineers believe that engineering is the only true mental discipline, and to hire a qualified person they just need to find that bright engineering student and they should be able to train him to do whatever needs to be done.

        Hahaha, I bet that’s the case. And screw that engineering is the only mental discipline thing. I can’t design a bridge, but let’s see them try to write a whole book. :P

        I already did apply–they called me for an interview. I never expected them to call me because they were asking for 2 years of marketing. My cover letter says things like “I can offer over ten years’ client care and administrative experience” and “I handled a lot of vendor contact [at OldExjob] and coordinated sample distribution to customers and sales reps across the country and internationally,” which is not marketing. Basically, I shipped chunks of wood to various states, Canada, Costa Rica, and once to Peru. I did brag on the process my team lead and I set up for report production. I’m super proud of that.

        The CAD stuff also made me wonder if they’re looking for an intern. My resume (again, read the damn thing, people) says my degrees are in English and criminal justice. That is so far from engineering it might as well be a degree in finger painting. In fact, I’m starting to wonder if they’re just scheduling interviews with whoever sends in a resume regardless of what it says.

        This is not filling me with confidence.

        1. Windchime*

          Breathe.

          Don’t talk yourself out of the job before you even do the interview. Just go in, be your honest self, and interview them as they are interviewing you. Maybe it will turn out to be great, maybe not, but it’s at least a possibility.

          Best of luck to you!

    2. Colette*

      It’s a small business, and it doesn’t sound like the kind where the phones ring off the hook. I’d be willing to bet that if the front desk person isn’t there for whatever reason, the phones are set to go to voicemail or some of the other staff pick them up. You will be able to take time off if you need it.

      The advantage of a small business is that you might have the opportunity to try new things that will take you in a new direction.

      Is it a front desk job? Because I don’t get that from admin/marketing. If it is, you could ask what the volume of visitors/calls is on average, and what other tasks the admin usually takes care of. I like “what is a typical day in this position”. Office hours would be good to know as well.

      Good luck!

      1. Me--Blergh*

        Yes, typical receptionist duties (screening calls, greeting visitors, etc.). I have never had the opportunity to try anything new at a small business. In my experience, they never see you as anything more than an admin. And I’ve worked for a small manufacturer of architectural components and the phone DID ring off the hook and did you know that architects and designers like to yell? They do.

        But they’re asking for someone with 2 years of basic marketing–digital, social media, and PR–and I have NONE of this. What the hell. Why did they even call me? I just don’t get it. I don’t think they know what they’re looking for.

        1. Kiwi*

          I think you could possibly ask them. Something like “I’d be delighted to have the opportunity to learn marketing, but I don’t have much experience. Can you tell me more about what the marketing side of this would involve?”

          My guess is that they’re looking for a versatile person who’ll try a lot of stuff and won’t need too much supervision. And they’re interviewing you because you look like that’d describe you.

          1. Me--Blergh*

            Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s anyone there to teach me marketing. I looked on their website, and there is one office manager, the engineers, and nobody else listed. It’s not a marketing assistant position. I fear they literally want this person to do ALL of that, alone. It feels like a setup to failure.

            And the worst part is that I need a job–nobody else is calling me and I can’t afford to turn down an interview. :{

            1. Lulubell*

              Just from reading your answers here, with no other context, the skills you list as having DO transfer to marketing. Writing key word articles shows an understanding of SEO, and it sounds like they are looking for someo digital/keyword advertising. Years of customer care could translate easily into a community manager position if they are wanting this position to manage social media. Mailing lists also = marketing. My guess is that someone in the office has been managing this on the side, and that it only takes up a few hours per week, not necessarily enough to hire someone to do the role full-time, but along with some other duties. Or maybe they had someone else do the work freelance or even at the company – not every position may be listed on the website. Of course, this is all speculation on my end – I have no idea what the role will entail. But it sounds like they see something in your background worth pursuing, so unless you have reason to think otherwise (like glassdoor reviews or you got major red flags from the person who set up the interview) I’d go in with an open mind. What’s the best that could happen?

            2. Not myself today*

              I’ve just moved from tech writing into marketing and it’s not bad to pick up. There’s an enormous amount of free courses online.

              Sounds a little like you’re trying to talk them out of wanting you in your head. Leave that to them! For interview prep, how about listing everything you think you could do to help the company? I’ll bet you find there’s plenty.

              Good luck!!

        2. Colette*

          I think this is one of those situations where they have a list of all the things they’d like, but they have a smaller, non-advertised list of non-negotiable. Anyway, I hope it works out.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      Hmmm. This is an interesting one. Sounds to me like they need a jack of many trades type assistant and as Colette said, they have created a wish list. I would be upfront about the CAD, but that may not be a deal breaker for them. In big firms, engineers don’t do their own CAD, so I can’t even run the software anymore, but I have seen the company train admin assistants who want to move into tech roles get in-house training to do that. This company may just think they can find someone who may have that interest in learning.

      Front desk shouldn’t be a big deal, either. They wouldn’t get a lot of (any?) drop in visitors. I’d expect scheduled clients to be a handful or less per week, not like financial services or something.

      Good luck!

  200. Cute Li'l UFO*

    No news on the interview front but I’ve added some more diverse work to my portfolio that I’ve known I wanted to/needed to for a while. I also updated my list of start/end dates (as in, down to the day) as I’ve started running into application systems that require the exact date for some things–work dates, college, high school. One I just applied through wanted exact dates for college but high school only had years available.

    In doing so I looked through last year’s journal to get my last date at HellContract. I like to ask myself from time to time “would I be okay if I had to return to this place/was offered something there?” just to get some perspective and size things up for myself.

    I wrote “Maybe I should go shake up all the sodas” and I instantly remembered how angry I was at being thrown under the bus and being told not to smile because it was Thursday and being blamed for files prepared wrong before I was even employed there. And I had to laugh because I had all these fantastic revenge fantasies like the Cyclops after he was blinded but never acted on them. The mere idea of shaking up every last soda can in the beverage fridge made me so happy even though I never did it. I probably would have shaken them up until they were spherical.

  201. a name*

    Hey everyone! I have a question.

    I just started a new job at the beginning of the month. I was a very strong candidate for the job and, as a term of my hire, said I would not accept the position unless all safety regulations in my department were followed. I emphasized that if this did not happen, I would not accept the job. The job was a turnaround situation, which I have specific and extensive experience in.

    However, now that I am here, I am discovering I was roundly lied to. I was told that my position was created new; it was to replace someone who quit after less than a year. The safety rules will not be followed unless I generate the revenue to do so. The staff are not terrible or stupid, they’re actually pretty good! My boss requires that I check in and out with her each day so she can track my hours (I’m salaried) and requires me to CC her on every email I send. Most of the staffing problems are because she was so nasty to people they quit. On my third day she accused me of lying about my skills in the interview and wants a written turnaround plan with dates…even though she will not allow me computer access to perform some of those tasks and she refuses to do it.

    I had a funny feeling at the interview and ignored it, I really regret it.

    Any thoughts?

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        This is the correct answer.

        Your boss’s toxic behavior will not improve with time, but even if your boss weren’t a nightmare, and even if you weren’t outright lied to during the hiring process, safety is non-negotiable. You told them clearly that you wouldn’t take the job if safety rules were not followed; now that you know differently, it’s not too late to make good on that.

    2. rubyrose*

      Agree with Lemon Zinger – get out now! Over time you will be able to drop this off your resume.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      If the main problem is your boss (and it is), there’s no turning that around. Get out as soon as you can! If there were other companies you were talking to before this offer came up, see if they’re still interested.

    4. LissyLou*

      Hey! I once worked for that same boss. Briefly. All I can say is GetOutGetOutGetOutGetOutNOW!

  202. Terbz*

    I support a team of 2 people. There is a manager and then a case worker on that team, and I provide admin support to them. I am not on the team and I do not report to this manager, I report to an overall manager of the organization.

    The manager of this team is out on maternity leave, and the case worker just gave her notice. I am currently job searching and have some promising interviews in the next couple of weeks. How should I handle this? Will this be held against me? I’d like to get a reference from the manager that I support in the future, but I don’t want to leave a bitter taste for leaving when the ship was already short staffed.

    Thoughts?

    1. rubyrose*

      They won’t be happy, but this is a situation they should be able to cover. You need to take care of yourself and your future.

  203. WorkingOnIt*

    Have got a mixture of happiness and annoyance, just seen a job readvertised which I’d applied to in maybe October last year, I never got a response or an acknowledgement, which I used to expect when I had no experience, but nowadays I tailor my applications, have experience and get a regular response or at least a rejection.
    Well the person they hired hasn’t worked out because it’s 6 months later and they’re hiring again for the role. I think I’ve massively improved my application standards, so I might be considered this time (or get a respones), but judging by the bio of the person who got the job I have no idea what they were actually looking for – because they didn’t seem to to meet the job spec at all.

  204. Anon for this*

    Sometimes I think I’d love to see a thread of “people who had a relationship in the workplace and it was uneventful and/or mature”. Not that I recommend workplace relationships as a rule (it DEFINITELY depends on the work dynamics involved, the individual people, your comfort level with being around exes/being able to manage your emotions if things don’t work out). But I realized the other day that the majority of my past relationships originated in the workplace and they all worked out fine and everybody gets along now. Maybe I just want to normalized non-drama in general?

    1. Guy Incognito*

      Mrs. Incognito and I met at work. The only bit of drama that happened was when Office Busybody was annoyed we weren’t telling her more about our relationship. We never discussed home life at work and vice versa. Took seperate lunches. When it looked like she was going to be promoted to be my supervisor, I found another job to avoid any conflicts or her having to turn anything down.

    2. Little Bean*

      There was a post like that before because I remember writing in. I’ve had a couple of relationships in the workplace which were largely uneventful – but I dated people who worked in very different aspects of a large company and we never interacted at work.

    3. Triple Anon*

      I’ve worked with two people I was in relationships with. In one, we were already in the relationship when we started working together. I guess he was technically my manager, but only on paper. There was nothing weird related to that. Everything was uneventful. We didn’t act like we were in a relationship when we were at work.

      The other one began at work. He was superior to me, though not my supervisor. I initiated it. I was really young and inexperienced. I left that job a month later and we were together for years. The problems that eventually drove us apart were not related to that. And there wasn’t much drama around it. Our co-workers and bosses were fine with it since we made a point of keeping it out of the workplace.

    4. The Librarian (not the type from TNT)*

      My brother met his wife at work when he was about 26… and they’re still married, 17 years later. And he even was her supervisor! (Though she changed jobs after the first few months.)

    5. mreasy*

      I did this and it was fine! We kept the relationship confidential, save my immediate supervisor (who was also dating a coworker), and just acted professional. We’re married now, though, so we didn’t have to break up as coworkers.

      1. Anon for this*

        High school boyfriend: Got me a job at his work and then broke my heart. We continued to work together without incident until he moved away for college. Good-natured jokes were made that he moved to get away from me. When he came back from college I was a supervisor and he and his girlfriend came and worked for us for extra cash. She was lovely and we all got along.

        I ran a company with my spouse for 4 years before we became a couple and worked with him for about 2 years before that. There were no romantic undertones for most of that time. We continued to run the business together for another 4 years or so as a couple without incident (arguably, I still run it with him, but I have a full-time job now). Most employees don’t know we are a couple unless we tell them or they have worked with us for awhile (or they meet our kids). Both of us have had former boyfriends/girlfriends work for us over the years without issue (entry-level work so we get a lot of people just looking for some extra money). We separated amicably for awhile (but have since reconciled) and continued to co-parent positively with my support of the business and I have no doubt that will continue no matter what happens with us.

        Co-worker in a different unit of my department and I got involved while I was separated from spouse. We made our expectations and boundaries very clear from the start (both emotionally and work-related). It was a breath of fresh air, and on and off for some time. When it was off we didn’t talk outside work but continued to chit chat if we ran into each other before meetings/at the photocopier/etc. In fact, the same as when it was on, and same as when it was over. We never flirted at work unless it was like 6pm and we were the only ones still working (and 9 times out of 10, if we were both still there at 6pm we just wanted to get our respective work done and leave). I don’t think anyone knows we were ever close as we rarely spoke at work for non-work-related reasons. We now sit fairly closely to each other as they moved some units around and it’s not weird. I still speak highly of him and he of me, and when we need to interact every couple of weeks for work-related stuff, it occurs as it would with any other colleague.

  205. Possible competing offers question*

    I’ve been job searching for over 6 months and had an in person interview today that went really well for Job A. The role itself & the organization seem like a good fit. The commute would be 1.5 hours on public transit for at least the next several months until my lease is up and I can move closer. Job A said they would let me know next week whether I got the job.

    I have an in person interview with Job B in two weeks for a job that also seems great, has a 45 min. commute and pays more than Job A. I’m worried that I could get offered Job A before my in person interview with Job B.

    Obviously it’s possible neither will offer me the job, but if they both do I feel like my options are:

    1. Accept Job A. Interview with Job B. Decline Job B if I learn more in the in person interview that turns me off about Job B.

    2. Accept Job A. If Job B comes through, quit Job A possibly while in the first week on the job (eek!).

    3. Decline Job A and cross my fingers that I get Job B.

    Any advice? Anyone been in a similar situation?

    1. rubyrose*

      If Job A is offered, ask them by when they need an answer. There may be a chance you can stall them until the Job B interview.

      1. Possible competing offers question*

        Ooo, I like this idea. I’ve actually never done this, I’ve mostly just accepted jobs pretty quickly in the past.

      2. The New Wanderer*

        Some places will be willing to grant you extra time. But I had the same situation as you and my company A would not give me any extra time. So I took option 3, declined their offer, kept the interview with company B (also shorter commute and probably higher pay) and … didn’t get it.

        I still think I made the right choice because my initial reaction to not getting B was darn, now I have to keep looking rather than regret at losing A.

        If you are not comfortable with the thought of losing A if you went for B and didn’t get it, I would take the offer and cancel on B for now, with an eye to applying there again in a year or so if you still want to. (before my interview at my company B the recruiter actually said that as a option, they would understand if I took the offer in hand and would encourage me to check in after a year as they expected to still be expanding) It burns serious bridges to ditch a job right after you start and if your industry is small that could be a problem.

      1. Possible competing offers question*

        Because Job B pays more and has a shorter commute, so I feel like it would a bad idea to take myself out of the running for Job B. I guess it’s technically an option, but it costs me so little to at least interview for Job B I feel like I should go for it?

        1. Anony*

          If it gets back to Job A that you are still interviewing after accepting the job, it could really burn your bridges with that company.

  206. Mbarr*

    Hey – I need advice for my sister. Several years ago, she and a friend started their own massage therapy clinic. They started butting heads over finances (her friend wanted to dump more money into the business, my sister wanted to cut costs), and now my sister has withdrawn from the partnership and is working as just another registered massage therapist at the clinic.

    Things are still rocky between them, so I’m helping my sister with her cover letter and resume. If she gets interviews, how would you phrase why she’s leaving the clinic? How does one phrase that they’re leaving a business they helped start to go be a minion elsewhere?

    (In addition to the money issues, another reason my sister ended the partnership is that she had a baby and wants to spend less time doing administrative work/non-massage work.)

    1. bb-great*

      I would focus on her wanting to spend less time doing administrative work. I think that’s a pretty understandable and reasonable reason why someone would want to “step down” in their career.

    2. E*

      Could she say that the partnership is ending due to differing opinions on managing the clinic? Perhaps that she prefers to focus on the clients instead of the management side of business.

    3. Natalie*

      How about just saying she doesn’t like running her own business? It sounds like it’s fairly accurate and it obliquely addresses the question of her being comfortable being someone’s employee again, which can be a concern when someone transitions out of owning their own business.

  207. Gaia*

    So I’m trying to figure out what this job I’m doing would be called outside of my company. Basically here is what I do:

    I take customer data (names, addresses, order history, etc) that is messy and disorganized and I design standards for entry, conform the current data to that standard, train teams on how to add an maintain data, monitor the incoming and existing data and work with teams to help them understand our existing data. What I don’t do is manage the database or handle the technical side of things.

    What is this job? Everything I look at also includes the technical database administration and that is an entirely different role in my company

      1. rubyrose*

        I like data quality specialist. The problem with data analyst is that I’ve seen it used for such a wide variety of positions, from one like this to ones that require a masters or PhD and skills like SQL, SSPS, SAS, etc.

  208. Bacon pancakes*

    UGH! My boss is out of town and one of my co-workers brought his super chill dog while he was briefly in the office yesterday. Other co-worker decided to bring her puppy today and I am going nuts! I have already ran multiple unnecessary errands to get out of here because this dog won’t stop. Shocker, it is only 8 mo! But it has already drank from the toilet, eaten out of the garbage and is constantly underfoot EVERYWHERE!! Just GO!

    1. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

      And that is why we can’t have nice things. Sorry Bacon pancakes, that sounds stressful.

  209. Storch*

    I suppose I know the answer to this question but I have to ask anyway – if you apply for a job and get a ding letter after a few months, then you see that the job is still open a few months after that, can you either apply again or contact the hiring manager and say you are still interested in the job?

    1. A Nickname for AAM*

      It’s my experience that that particular scenario only happens at dysfunctional workplaces (passing over a good candidate for one that leaves shortly) and unless you have an inside contact, it’s best to avoid.

    2. WorkingOnIt*

      Hmm I think Alison would usually say no, but usually they put up a notice saying previous candidates need not apply. Has it been 3-6 months since you were rejected, so that perhaps they hired someone and it didn’t work out?
      If you actually improve your application – then I can’t see the harm in it really (unless there are lots of positions at this place that you might want to apply to.) Thinking about it, unless you’re harassing someone about your rejection, or you’re widely over/underqualified – or literally applying right after they rejected you, I can’t see the harm in trying again.

      1. Triplestep*

        Usually I think “don’t re-apply” but your mention of “improving your application” reminded me that this actually worked for my son in his first job out of college. He applied for a role at a non-profit and was not contacted. He subsequently got some good resume advice from someone who worked in non-profit. He improved his resume, applied again (the second posting was for another person to fill the same role) and he was selected to interview within a week. Got the job, and the rest is history.

        I don’t know that this is typical, but if the resume and cover letter are different enough, why not?

        1. WorkingOnIt*

          Ok that’s nice to hear, because that literally applies to me – and I was thinking it didn’t. I has been 6 months since the job was posted and I applied, and clearly the last person hasn’t worked out. I was reconsidering whether it was weird to apply again, but I think I have bettered my application, there are no other job roles there that I can see myself going for in the future, and I can’t see that it would hurt really.

    3. Anony*

      I wouldn’t. If it were a new position then it could be worth a try, but they already rejected you for this one.

  210. Secretary*

    Just something funny, for the last couple of days I’ve been negotiating with the VP of a collection agency on behalf of my boss around a payment. We’re both pretty emotionally detached from this so the conversation has been extremely professional… except that we bonded over our love of dogs and dog memes.

    Now we’re sending extremely professional emails back and fourth except we are both always attaching a dog/dog meme picture to each email. LOL! Never thought I would have this kind of conversation with the VP of a collection agency.

  211. Gina Linetti*

    After two years of frustrating, fruitless searching, I finally landed a job, as an assistant bookkeeper at a local pharmacy.

    The pay isn’t what I was hoping for, but I got them to agree to revisit the salary question after a six-month trial period.

    Frankly, at this point, I’m grateful to have anything. I was on the verge of having to move.

    1. Teapot librarian*

      Oh dear I read this as “assistant beekeeper” and couldn’t figure out why a pharmacy would have not only a beekeeper, but an assistant beekeeper as well. I know honey has some medicinal properties, but that seemed like a bit much!

    2. fposte*

      Congratulations, Gina! Even if it isn’t perfect, it sounds like a move in the right direction as opposed to a move away.

  212. amanda_cake*

    I posted last week about this and wanted to give an update. I work in higher education admissions and I will finish a Masters degree in library science in May. There is a librarian who is leaving my institution and I’m interested in her position. I emailed the head of the library last Friday and haven’t heard back from her yet about any openings and nothing had been posted. I don’t know the head librarian at all since we don’t cross paths often in our work. One of my coworkers is married to the interlibrary loan librarian and she advised me to email the library director. I spoke with her again today and told her that I hadn’t heard anything back from the director, so she said she would ask her husband to put in a good word for me.

    I hope I did the right thing by emailing! I’m antsy since I haven’t heard back.

    For the record, my institution is very small–undergraduate enrollment of 650, so this isn’t a massive university library. I know many think academic libraries and think huge, but it’s quite different here. This would also be a good position for me since it is a teaching position (basic information literacy course required by all freshmen) and I have teaching experience.

    1. Teapot librarian*

      Good luck! I applied for my position right out of library school (actually I submitted the application the day before commencement) but the position had been vacant for about 5 months at the point when they finally posted it. I also had made a few off-hand comments to people in the office about thinking I would be the perfect fit for the job over the previous few months, like you’ve been doing. Having the contacts already with people in organization definitely helped. I wouldn’t worry about the fact that you haven’t heard back yet from the head of the library since it’s been only a week, but I also wouldn’t email again (or not right away?). I hope it goes well for you!!

    2. another librarian*

      I know we are not allowed to post a position before the person actually leaves, and sometimes people are still on payroll even when they have stopped working (to use up sick/annual leave), depending on the type of institution. In the meantime, I would go and use the library, talk to librarians etc., so you really get to know what’s happening at this library and can talk about it if you meet the director at some point or interview.

  213. LQ*

    Interviewing for the first role I’m going to play a big part in going forward. I know that my decision is going to be the one that makes the selection. This is a fight I’m going to win. And I’m really nervous that I’m going to pick the wrong person and have to live with them for a year. (Contractor not employee.)

    Also interviewing is EXHAUSTING! WOW! I know but wow.

  214. KR*

    Dear AAM, I am going through the process to not work through a staffing agency but actually be on my company’s payroll, which is awesome. As with when I was hired through the staffing agency, I need to get things notarized and send them priority with tracking numbers and so on . Should I be expecting my company to cover this cost since the only reason I need to get things notarized and send originals via expensive mail is because I’m a remote worker or is it normal for me to have to cover these hiring costs? For reference these are record release forms for background checks and my tax withholding form and proof that I can work in the US and so on.

    1. rubyrose*

      I would say that if you have been hired, you can submit these costs on an expense report. If not hired and this is required as a part of their vetting you, no, this is on you.

  215. Serious Pillowfight*

    I really like my job, but I work in a low-paying industry. I know I could find a higher paying job with my skills, as I’ve seen former coworkers do, but I’m really scared of the unknown. I know money isn’t everything and I fear leaving this job and finding myself in a crappy situation. I also know I don’t want to manage anyone and I don’t want to deal with the public. Due to those two things, I wonder if there’s even anything out there for me.

    Just thinking…

    1. Lumen*

      The thing that helps me most with my own fear of the unknown is reminding myself that nothing is permanent. Your entire life is not riding on every single change that comes your way. So you leave this (tolerable) job and end up in a crappy one? It doesn’t mean that leaving the tolerable job was a mistake! You find a different job, and maybe it’s better, and maybe it’s mediocre. So you can look for something else.

      Also there are TONS of jobs out there that are well-paying, do not involve managing anyone, and don’t involve working with the public. That describes my job and the jobs of the majority of people in my department.

      Sometimes the things we’re told are weaknesses are strengths. Lean into your strengths and trust that they will still be there even if you have some ‘meh’ jobs.

    2. fposte*

      Do any of your former co-workers have jobs of the no-managing, no-public kind you’d like? Some skillsets lead you to paths where those aren’t too tough to find.

      I totally get being scared of the unknown, and maybe where you are is the best fit for you right now. But if you took a new job and it didn’t work out, you could still be move on and be okay; people do it all the time. It’s not “till death do us part.”

  216. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    I’m still cleaning up the messes of the person who had the job before me two solid years after I took over the account. This person has been promoted promoted twice in those same two years, and it’s so frustrating! He stays in a position just long enough to implement some “great ideas” that inevitably fall apart, and the person who comes in after him scrambles to make everything right so they don’t get blamed for screwing things up after he moves on. I’ve pointed out several places to my superiors where he’s messed up and it’s caused me hours of work to make it right, but this dude is somehow coated in Teflon when it comes to management.

  217. Sassafras*

    Does anyone have experience in living very close to your workplace? I’m considering buying an apartment that’s literally across the street from my work building and trying to consider any downsides. Aside from the risk of encountering colleagues if I go for a sweaty run on my day off, I wondered if I might have trouble mentally separating my work and home life.

    2. Red Reader*

      I work fully from home and don’t have any trouble mentally separating my work and home life, for what that’s worth. I feel like it would be even easier if there really was some semblance of “commute” even if it’s like, thirty seconds’ walk. But ultimately it depends on you, in the long run, and how important it is to you to keep the separation.

    3. k.k*

      This would depend on the nature of the job, but people might expect you to be available on your off time. Like that you can just pop in quick since you’re right there anyways.

      1. Sassafras*

        That’s a good point… I’m on call one week per month but I can see my boss asking me to do more if it means she doesn’t have to pay me for my travel time!

      2. The Curator*

        My dream is to live across the street from work. On the other hand it is my husband’s nightmare.
        Go home for lunch. Sigh.
        A walking commute. Had that once for a year. Heavenly.
        Forget my ID. No big deal.

    4. LQ*

      I live like a 6 minute walk from work.

      The just drop by on an off day can totally be a thing if your workplace is a place that’s prone to that anyway. Mine REALLY isn’t, which is great. I have occasionally done it when something was really wrong. But I’ve never felt pressured too, but I can see a lot of cases where someone would feel pressure.

      Some people will be weird about it, but those people are weird about everything so it’s just a thing they can be weird about. Like the color of your shoes, or literally anything else.

      It is SO nice. So very very awesome. I love the walk. I love everything. And being this close means I have no interest really in WFH, I prefer the office to keep separation between work and home and I’ve never got a bad commute. (I would be way more concerned about WFH if my commute was longer, or if we had something like an open office plan…)

    5. sugarplum*

      I’m sure it varies depending on the place and the kind of work and all that, but I live four blocks from work and it’s pretty fantastic (especially after years of an hour+ commute each way.) The only major downside for me is, since my office is in my own neighborhood, that I basically can’t go anywhere without seeing my office, but it doesn’t bother me, really. I would imagine that would be exaggerated if you were only across the street.

      I almost never run into colleagues around town, but that’s because the organization is huge, and because so few other people who work here live in our city and even fewer – practically none – in this neighborhood. None of my team live near enough for more frequent run-ins than I would have if I lived elsewhere. Do you know if a lot of your colleagues live locally or hyperlocally? You might find that your run-in rate doesn’t change much, if most people *don’t* live so close to work.

    6. Tris Prior*

      I lived a few blocks away from a past job. I did have trouble separating work and home but that was more the nature of the job and not my proximity to it.

      Pluses:
      – next to no commute, of course.
      – Condo needs repair work, or Internet down, or otherwise need to be at home for a service call? No need to burn a day of PTO; instruct the service person to call when they’re 10 minutes away and run over there to let them in. I seriously have no idea how I would’ve managed my brief stab at homeownership if I’d had a normal commute, honestly, and still have no idea how people who can’t ever WFH do that and still keep their jobs.
      – If having a bad day, went home at lunch for kitty cuddles.

      Minuses:
      – Only one in the company who was expected to haul self into office when we got a 2-feet-of-snow blizzard, while all other employees got a snow day. Walked to and from work in snow up to my upper thighs.
      – After I quit, I’d sometimes run into former co-workers in the neighborhood, which was awkward because everyone was so pissed that I’d quit.

    7. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      Maybe just don’t make a big announcement about it at work if you don’t want to get asked to be more available than you are willing to be?

      Obviously you have to change your address with HR for W2s paychecks etc. I don’t see why you have to tell your boss and all your coworkers “I live across the street.” I don’t know exactly where most of my coworkers live. It’s none of my business. It’s none of your bosses’ business either. Unlikely HR is going to map your address and connect the dots.

      So enjoy the perks of no commute and keep it to yourself would be my advice.

    8. Windchime*

      They are building a fabulous new hi-rise directly across from my office and I fantasize about living there. I won’t do it, because downtown rent is over $2k for a 600 square foot apartment (way more than my house payment). But I dream about it. Going home for lunch! 2 minute commute! Night view of the city!

  218. anon for a min*

    Another Match Day…another year of me not doing *&%$ about it. I get teary eyed every time. I am so filled with joy seeing everyone’s pictures. I know they’ve worked so hard to get to this point.

    Any non-traditional med students? I’d have to start all over…my undergrad grades are garbage (3.9 in grad school though, yay) and I’m not the best test taker (read: I fear studying for the MCAT for a year just to get terrible scores).

    My spouse is going to start a PhD program and their SOM is very competitive to get into. I’m thinking I’m going to give it a shot and if I get in, I get in.

    1. Yolo*

      wowza are you me? not a current student but another person w/ grad degree in not-medicine watching the hullabaloo and sharing in your angst.

    2. Lumen*

      My best friend is an MD who has been practicing medicine for something like 15-20 years. He told me once that he was going to med school with people in their 60s. I go back to that over and over whenever I start thinking that I’ve missed my chance at something. It is NEVER too late and you know what? If you don’t get in it’s not the end of the world. But you should give yourself the faith it takes to try. You deserve to believe in yourself.

    3. Anon for This*

      Do it!

      In my 20’s I was thinking about going and getting the prerequisites for med school and then seeing if I could get in, and I regret not going for it then. You could take the MCAT and see how you do. You might surprise yourself.

    4. Triplestep*

      A friend started med school in his early thirties as a second career, and he is now a mid-forties Primary Care doc and in great demand. He’ll have at least another 20 years of full time work, and then can even semi-retire happily. He’s got a wife and two little kids who were born during his residency.

      I am really betting you can do this if it’s something you want.

      1. Windchime*

        My favorite doctor ever went to school for engineering and then went back to med school in her 30’s. She was fairly new at practicing medicine when I met her, but she was AWESOME and I think her life experience helped her to be a better doctor.

        I had a full ride to a university when I was 18. I wasn’t ready and had no family support, so I quit after a semester and got married. Biggest mistake ever, and I regret that I never went back. Now I’m in my mid-50’s and it feels too late. But I work for the university that I attended all those years ago. Hmmm…….

    5. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      I hate to be a bummer but you realize you have to fix the test taking thing to succeed in Med school, right? The MCAT is comparatively easy because it’s not a knowledge test.

      Every month in Med school you will have a subject test – eg anatomy, biochemistry, physiology. Then every clinical rotation has a subject test with extreme minutiae. Then you have 3 step exams, 3 usmle exams, board exams. All these things good test takers are known to fail.

      Maybe a plan B is reasonable? Have you thought of being an RN which is 2 years if you are already a college grad I think. You could then do a masters in advanced practice nursing like NP, midwife. Or becoming a PA?

  219. hey anonny nonny*

    I work in billing and partner with the customer service department on certain aspects of my job. They have a not-quite-new person to their team who is seriously struggling to keep up, and it’s leading to confusion and slowing things down for me (and everyone in the pipeline after me). It’s definitely a challenging set of tasks, but it’s also something that we expected them to be better at by now. Some of it is just pure communication error:

    sales rep: Please change this date and these six other dates
    cust serv n00b: *changes the first date only*
    me: Please change the other six dates *provides links*
    cust serv n00b: Oh, O already did that! :)
    me: *repeats self more slowly and points back to links*
    cust serv n00b: OHHHH.

    The thing is, they are very nice and genuinely feel bad about screwing up so much. I think they’re overwhelmed, and I sympathize. But lately they’ve started offering to get me Starbucks or lunch to apologize, and that makes me way more uncomfortable than their screw-ups. It’s not personal. This isn’t about me liking them or not. I just need them to focus on their job and figure out a way to do it correctly, and buying me coffee just seems like a way to make up for on-the-job mistakes with something completely unrelated.

    Urrrgh. Any advice for how to redirect this person’s energy into learning how to do their job right, rather than fixating on making sure I’m not mad at them?

    1. Anony*

      Tell them that next time they try to make it up to you. “I realize that you genuinely feel bad about the mistakes you are making but you don’t need to make anything up to me. I really need you to focus on learning this job. While I realize the offer of (insert here) is coming from a good place, I do not feel comfortable accepting it.”

  220. Shay*

    I just got out of my first meeting for my new internship. I’m working with a small LGBT non profit and I’m so excited! I’m doing graphic design. I’m so excited to be able to put that on my resume. I thought I’d likely never be able to work in graphic design because I’m not majoring in it, but here I am!

  221. CurlzMT*

    I am starting a new job this Monday. Basically, the company is opening a US office for the first time (the HQ is in Asia), and I will be coming on as a sales and marketing admin. However, no one has been in this position in the US before – I can basically go about organizing and coordinating sales and marketing efforts as I wish, but I’m not really sure where to begin. I’ll be working under the VP of sales, who already has a few clients. Does anyone have any advice on how to “create” the duties and role for myself? I am definitely up for the challenge, but just wondering if anyone had any ideas!

    1. KR*

      Take direction from your VP! Ask to meet with him and ask him what success in your department looks like to him, what metrics show him that the department is doing well and improving, if he has anything he needs specifically from you, and if there has been something he’s wanted for you department but hasn’t had time/people/ect to make it happen. It should give you a start.

  222. Ri*

    I had my first truly godawful interview this week. It was the first time I’d interviewed for a position that wasn’t at a big firm (with very formal, familiar, bureaucratic processes) or a tiny company (with little more than an unstructured chat), and it was sort of the worst of both worlds. My interviewer had obviously come up with his own questions, and it was just…really bizarre!

    He started out by ensuring me that the bar was set very high and that I really needed to perform ‘spectacularly’ well in the interview to be considered, which seemed unnecessary- I wasn’t spooked, but it felt like an attempt to intimidate candidates. Then he asked a lot of technical questions about the field, which seemed far too detailed for an entry-level graduate job. I had to keep repeating that I was a fresh graduate and new to the field, but had x, y, and z skills that would enable me to succeed.

    And finally, he finished by asking me a lot of questions about how I perceived the company. I had done my research, and he acknowledged that, but went on to criticise me for calling their business a ‘toolbox’ and not a ‘platform’ that was ‘actually just like Facebook’ (they’re nothing like Facebook). I think he just wanted to hear, ‘You’re the next Facebook!’ Overall, the whole experience came off more like an ego trip for this guy rather than a real interview; he didn’t even ask me why I would be good for the position, what relevant experience I had, etc. Maybe the whole thing was a test to see if I got flustered under pressure? Either way, it certainly put me off for good.

    1. Triplestep*

      Sorry – hopefully it was at least good practice for you. You sound much better at being an interviewee than he is at being an interviewer!

  223. LouiseM*

    OK, so I’ve never posted in the open thread before, but I have a work email related question that is too ridiculous to write as a standalone question.

    Someone I work with somewhat closely tends to sign all her emails with an ellipse after her name. Like if instead of “All the best, Louise” I wrote “Louise…” and it WIGS ME OUT. We work in a field where most people have at least one postgrad degree, so I wonder if it’s just to indicate that on a real signature she would have her degrees following her name? Does anyone have any idea why she does this? It always makes me feel like she is mad at me, like she’s sighing and shaking her head as she types her email. I can’t get her to stop, right? For the record, most people around here sign emails with either their name or their initials (and sometimes with an email signature).

    1. rubyrose*

      Don’t know, but it could also be that she does not know good protocol, or thinks she is a special snowflake and wants to show it. I worked with someone once with a masters who never.never.never put a subject line on his emails! Most of the people in the office had less education and were afraid to mention it to him, thinking he knew something they did not.

      It is probably nothing personal and you probably cannot get her to stop.

      1. Triplestep*

        Someone here has an e-mail signature that starts with a little bitmap of her actual hand-written signature, which I suppose she scanned in. Talk about special snowflake! This is where I always want to ask “Have you not seen how this is done? Do you see anyone else doing this? Do you think the rest of us don’t do this because we don’t know how?” (I hope it goes without saying that I never would!)

        1. Canadian Teapot*

          Isn’t that a possible identity theft issue as well? Signature forgery is A Thing. :o

      2. mreasy*

        I had a boss who made the subject line of every email to me the name of our company or it’s initials. I worked there almost 4 years & this never changed. He did this with everyone & we just had to chuckle about it (and deal w weird email nesting).

    2. PB*

      That is weird. I have no idea why she does that. I’m also in a field where most people have a post-grad degree, but I’ve never seen this. But no, you probably can’t get her to stop.

    3. Triple Anon*

      Woah. That would creep me out. I know it’s a small thing. But what is she trying to communicate?

      Hopefully it’s just a strange habit that she picked up from someone else. Maybe someone told her it was normal or that it means something (which most people don’t understand).

      Could you ask her about it?

    4. LQ*

      You can’t get her to stop.

      If I had a good relationship I would totally ask out of sheer curiosity. Not as in it wigs out, or it seems like a sigh, but just a “I’ve never seen this signature convention before, does it mean something?”

      But I think you have to assume she uses that as the standard sign off everywhere all the time so it’s not just you. Unless you have evidence that it is just you. Which is even more curious. What else does an ellipse mean? Like in coding, or in a specific industry? Or something like that?

      1. LouiseM*

        Whoops–thanks for pointing out how iPhone autocorrect was not my friend. I meant to say ellipsis. As in “…”

    5. Crylo Ren*

      That’s really annoying. I had a boss who would do that, and also use a lot of extra punctuation (like “where did this metric come from??????”). I couldn’t stand it.

      It’s nothing personal though. I’d try not to let it bother you. I can’t think of a polite way to get her to stop without seeming like you’re making a huge deal out of nothing (not saying that it isn’t annoying – I’m saying that she’s likely to not care or understand why it’s so bothersome).

      1. Triplestep*

        People who write e-mails (or posts) as stream of consciousness narratives with no filter applied drive me nuts! So maybe you are super curious about where this metric came from, but for Pete’s sake – re-read your e-mail before hitting send. Your curiosity does not translate well with extra question marks!

        I actually think this may be what the subject of this post is doing. The ellipses may be meant to signify a kind of trailing off, as in “this is not the end of the conversation.” Something meant to apply a sense of real-time conversation to e-mail, which she thinks of as cold and not human enough. Meh.

        1. Crylo Ren*

          Totally! It drove me bonkers because I could never interpret the “?????” as neutral – it always seemed weirdly sarcastic/displeased/aggressive, especially when said boss sometimes used different amounts of ?. Like “???” would just mean “I am curious about this” and “??????????” would mean “I am very annoyed that I have to ask this question at all, also you are an idiot”. She probably didn’t mean them that way, but it came off like that to me!

    6. kc89*

      Oh man… so many of my co-workers type like this…

      I get a lot of… thanks… and okay….

      things that would typically be passive aggressive but that’s just the way they type so you really can’t take it personally

    7. Free Meerkats*

      Have you asked her? “I’m curious if the elipsis has any special meaning, I’ve never seen it used like that before?”

      Also, look for something that might let you see that she does this with others.

      But seriously, just ask!

    8. Triplestep*

      I’m laughing because I just “thanks …”

      I will never look at an ellipses in an email the same way again!

    9. LCL*

      I like it. It’s a bit enigmatic. She probably used to use a LONG sig quote and someone told her to stop.

    10. Marthooh*

      It’s wistfully poetic, is what. It’s premeditatedly eccentric punctuation. She’s a modern-day Emily Dickinson, but with three dots instead of a dash.

    11. Close Bracket*

      The best way to handle the ellipsis is to stop doing this:

      > It always makes me feel like she is mad at me, like she’s sighing and shaking her head as she types her email.

      That is all in your head.

  224. The Curator*

    All set for my work trip to Japan in a few weeks.
    Etiquette and packing questions.
    Going for 17 days.
    Work clothes will be Eileen Fisher knitwear. One jacket on the dressy side. Black and grey with colorful scarves. Skirts and Leggings. Birkenstocks for business. (I have walking and standing issues) All Birds for casual. Short Orthopedic (Ugly) boots for change.
    I walk with a crutch. I am meeting with people I don’t know.
    Do I disclose my disability? Ignore it? It is usually an issue if the restaurant we are going to is “just a few blocks” What is to others, a ten minute walk is at least twenty for me.

    Does anyone have a script for “I will need more time” ?

    2. Ally*

      Hello, fellow crutch user. I disclose, because otherwise I might have to walk too far to restaurants or go up too many stairs to places, or something. I just say something like ‘fun fact, I use a crutch to walk, so if we can stay relatively close and try to avoid stairs, it would be much better. Also faster. At least I am easy to spot in a crowd though. Thanks!’

    3. Ursula*

      Hi, I lived in Japan for years and did my degree there. I also worked here and there though mostly in a retail environment or as a freelance tutor/translator so I don’t know how much will translate to a business environment if relevant but I too have walking and standing issues and walk with a crutch or walking stick. Generally people were understanding. So if you just explain the situation it shouldn’t be a problem.

      As for clothes I don’t know these brands but in my experience Japanese women seem to dress similarly to western women when it comes to work clothes so smart work clothes should be sufficient. One warning, it is sometimes not considered appropriate to wear lower cut tops that would be appropriate in the west (though it is acceptable to wear skirts that westerners would consider far too short for business) so if you have larger breasts (given you mention skirts I assume you are a woman) keep this in mind.

      Here are a few warnings from experience; (note I am from the UK so if you are from a different country to the UK your subjective experience might be different).
      1. Underground stations often have lifts but they are often quite a walk particularly in large stations and some of the train/tube stations are huge so build this into considerations when working out how long it will take you to get somewhere.
      2.Similarly avoid rush hour on public transport if possible, especially if you are in a city like Tokyo or Osaka. As it is so packed you will probably not get a seat.
      3. Sometimes Japanese people dealing with foreigners decide to take them to traditional Japanese places, this is often lovely and worth doing however sometimes these places, tea houses in particular have people sit on the floor or on low stools. Depending on your disability this may be fine, I personally struggled with it though so this might be worth checking especially if someone invites you to a tea house. However the vast vast majority of restaurants, cafes etc have western style seating.

  225. miyeritari*

    A good HR story!

    Yesterday I went to the dentist. I hadn’t been to the dentist in a long time. The dentist basically told me my bite is fucked, and I don’t get orthodontics, I’ll definitely have serious tooth issues when I’m older (65+). Quote on this was ~$8k. Thanks America. Naturally, this wasn’t covered, so I demurred for now.

    Went to HR today and said, “Hey… I need these orthodontics…..how can I get this within my budget, even with reasonable financing?”

    “They went ‘actually we’re really trying to add orthodontic coverage, so all we think you’ll need to do is wait until June’!”

    Phew!

    2. Enough*

      While helpful orthodontic coverage is usually limited. So you will still have a good bit to cover yourself but if you start saving now you could have a good down payment. When my kids had braces I put down a certain amount, the insurance covered some, and then paid the rest monthly over two years.

    3. Short & Dumpy*

      May be too late for this, but I’d look for a second opinion before doing anything. I swear I’ve had the WORST luck with dentists, but at this point I just go to the dental school. Everything is reviewed by multiple experienced instructors (a minimum of 3 for most things) and the students only care about getting it RIGHT, not paying off the new equipment.

      My spouse didn’t get dental care growing up, then had awful military dentists, so his mouth is falling apart. We got him as a patient with one of the highest ranked dental schools and not only is the quality great, it’s costing about a decimal point less than quoted elsewhere. They are also really good with people who are terrified (bonus for me!)

  226. DrWombat*

    I am officially Dr. Wombat! (well,the IRL equivalent now). I graduated last Friday, but my exit seminar was Wednesday, and I got a lot of really good comments! Even from the professor who is notoriously hard to please ^^ I am so excited to be finally done, albeit a bit exhausted, but it’s all amazing and I am just so AAAAAA! And it looks like we should be able to publish all the chapters of my dissertation, so I’ll be submitting 3 papers come end of April. Also one of the organizations I’ve worked with during my time here gave me a lovely framed photo of a dog herding sheep and I legit cried. I have been here 4.5 years and am sad to go, but am excited re the new job, and finally getting my PhD!

    6. Canadian Teapot*

      As one Doctor to another (mine’s in chemistry), congratulations! It’s always a little unreal after you pass your defence and you go “wow, yep.”

      1. DrWombat*

        Thanks Dr! And thanks yall for your congrats ^^
        I got lucky, we don’t have a formal defense, just an hourlong presentation on our work, but theres 10 min of questions and you can get grilled, but it doesn’t determine if you finish or not. But even so, I am so relieved and excited and it’s sinking in now that I can sign things as Dr. now! I made some nice presents for my advisors and some mentors – I’m out of town this weekend and then I move, so it may be a bit before pics get posted though ^^

  227. justagirl*

    So I could use a sanity check and a bit of advice-

    Today, one of my coworkers and fellow manager congratulated me on my promotion that was announced earlier this week. (Thanks!) He then proceeds to immediately follow up with “Don’t feel bad about taking advantage of the opportunities you’re getting because of how you are born. You’re at the right time in the right place since there are all these diversity initiatives now.” I can only assume that how I was born = female, since I am not a person of color or otherwise a member of a minority group. I was so shocked at the time I could only reply with something like “I hope I’m promoted based on my merits” but I’ve been stewing about it ever since.

    For context. this person was my boss when I first started out here ~5 years ago, but thankfully I’ve been reporting to someone else over the last couple years (who is also his boss). Over the last year or so he’s regularly made unsolicited comments to me about other people “riding the diversity wave” and how he “doesn’t think diversity has anything to do with gender or skin color”. I usually calmly and diplomatically try to point out the other side of the coin (e.g. “I really thought her contributions to X project were great”), but he never seems interested in hearing it.

    1) Sanity check- am I right to be annoyed, or am I just interpreting through the lens of my other (project related) frustrations with this guy?
    2) If it is as offensive as I feel it is right now- should I consider alerting our mutual boss about his pattern of comments? Current boss is kind, understanding, and I believe would appreciate knowing. And frankly I just don’t have the patience to try to talk to former boss directly any longer about his issues, especially when he’s responsible for managing other employees.

    1. ArtK*

      1) Yes, you’re right to be annoyed. He’s attributing your success to “affirmative action” and not to your own accomplishments
      2) Yes, it is *extremely* offensive. I say that as a cis-het white upper-middle-class male. His problem is that his privilege is being challenged and that *always* feels like oppression. Anything helping women, PoC, or other oppressed groups is leveling the playing field, but he’s unhappy because he liked the uneven playing field. So he has to blame the more-level playing field for your success.

      In short: He’s an offensive idiot. Not worth your time or concern.

      1. martin*

        I admit I was surprised to see you call yourself cis-het. In my experience I have only ever seen it used in a derogatory, condescending and not well meaning way, or through my work part of a broader pattern of not nice intentions, such as an assault. Good for you for not being afraid to use it to describe yourself, and for giving such a good answer. You said it better than I could. I don’t speak English as a first language and couldn’t come up with the words. Your answer is great. +1 from me.

    2. LQ*

      This is totally offensive. Absolutely right to be annoyed.

      This is something I’d mention to my boss so that he’d be aware in case other people are getting the same sort of BS from him. Especially if he’s in a hiring/firing/management role. Hearing this from a manager is absolutely something to bring up. I wouldn’t expect it to go much of anywhere unless this is part of a broader pattern from this guy, but the only way management knows that (other than listening themselves!) is people bring things like this to their attention.

      1. A Nickname for AAM*

        Yes to this, and you could frame it out of concern for the company, ex: “I am concerned his statements could cause a discrimination complaint and I’d hate to see that happen!”

      2. Anony*

        I agree that it probably won’t go anywhere but should be mentioned. If for no other reason than that boss should know that he has a pattern of writing off the accomplishments of women and minorities as not having been earned. He should not be trusted to evaluate people fairly.

    3. Earthwalker*

      Take notes: dates, times, incidents, verbatim conversation notes. I didn’t. I trusted my understanding manager to handle it. He wasn’t into conflict so he let it continue. I just tried to keep professional about it because surely if they didn’t get a rise out of me they’d tire of it, right? Soon one person making snide comments turned into a number of people doing it until such rumors undermined my ability to get work done. If I had notes I might have been able to take action but I did not. Don’t wait to start documenting!

    4. LCL*

      Aw, you have to pick your battles. I wouldn’t pick this one yet. I heard the same thing when I starting my career in the mid eighties. Information like this should be filed away in your brain. He does sound like kind of a jerk.

      1. moosetracks*

        Information like this should be filed away in your personal files, in writing!

        I also think mentioning it to your boss is a good idea. Doesn’t have to be a battle, just a heads-up.

        1. LCL*

          Some things aren’t worth going to war over. File it away means you keep your awareness and knowledge of what he said, so you are better prepared for any more incidents. It does not mean forget it.

          1. neverjaunty*

            Who said anything about “going to war”? Dude is a problem, she can bring it up at work.

            That the mid-80s were a less safe time to push back against sexism doesn’t mean she should keep quiet now. Especially since that way lies “But why didn’t you say anything earlier”?

      3. Blend it like Beckham*

        This is the kind of advice that allows these attitudes and behaviours to flourish. Things need to change – I don’t know what it was like in the 80s but this crap has no place in this century!

    5. Thlayli*

      Document document document. Write down everything you can remember. Report him as soon as you feel you have sufficient info. Try your manager first and if you get nowhere go to HR.

      This man should not be managing anyone.

    6. Close Bracket*

      He’s been taking advantage of the opportunities available to him bc of the way he was born, why shouldn’t you get a ride on that gravy train?

      Yes, you have a right to be annoyed. I don’t know your boss’s stance on diversity questions, and that’s important to consider as you decide whether to tell them. I would definitely start making snarky comments about his gender and (I assume) race every time he says something stupid about diversity.

      1. justagirl*

        Also love this comment. That’s exactly the kind of witty reply I could never come up with on the spot.

    7. justagirl*

      A little late, but I just wanted to leave a heartfelt thanks to everyone who took the time to weigh in on my post. After sitting on it for a week, today I decided to talk to our mutual boss.

      I framed the discussion around the fact that it’s information I’d want to know if it was happening with my direct reports, and I just wanted him to have a heads up. The conversation went really well and boss took my concerns seriously and will now be keeping a closer eye on coworker.

      I don’t expect it to go anywhere unless there are other issues I’m not privy to. I can still work with coworker with a better understanding of his character and I feel much better for speaking up. I told myself that if I was hesitating to speak up in the position I’m in (just promoted, well respected, peer to this guy), it would be that much harder for someone in a position of less strength to speak up and at the end of the day it was really my duty as a manager.

      Thanks again everyone- even the file it away perspectives helped me to feel more certain about the course of action that was right for me and my situation.

  228. Crylo Ren*

    Just ranting. I decided to give freelancing a try and started working with small business owner on the opposite side of the country. We agreed on 10 hours of work, and a scope: I was to build out and design llama paddocks, including curating and installing accoutrements in the paddocks, and finally seeking out potential llamas to live in the paddocks.

    I thought I did a good job explaining my situation (I was up front that I’m freelancing purely as a side hustle, that I could only devote <5 hours a week, and I would generally not be available during typical 9-5 work hours in my time zone). And for the most part I think I did a pretty good job at performing to his stated expectations as far as deadlines went. He never actually gave me any, but I consistently provided revisions with less than 24 hours turnaround. The thing is, whenever I sent revisions back to him, there would be radio silence until he would suddenly bombard me with "??????" IMs 1 week later.

    Anyway, the client suddenly sent me an IM today with no warning, essentially saying "You're too busy for me. I want to hand off the llama paddock building to someone else."

    I'm SUPER annoyed that he dropped this bomb on me. He never gave me feedback that I was falling behind on work. He was unclear on his requirements and even as he was IM-ing me to tell me that he wanted to hand off my work to someone else, he still sent me a request for a new llama paddock that he wanted me to build this week! What?!

    I IM-ed him back to ask for clarification and he only responded with "can we FaceTime?" No dude, I can't just drop my day job for you and hop on a call with no notice. Grrr.

    Anyway, at least this is a learning experience. I'm just annoyed that my first real foray into freelancing has turned out to be kind of crappy. :/

    2. RB*

      Can you call him on your lunch hour? It sounds like the whole IM’ing thing isn’t ideal for him.

  229. buttercup*

    In light of a recent question posted on AAM this week, I’m 11 months into my current job, but have already started sending out applications for a new job. This job is adjacent to, but not exactly in, the industry I want to be in. Management also drives me a little crazy which is why I’m searching for a new job. Basically, I utilize some overlapping skills so it’s a good stepping stone to my ideal job. But my question is, is my relatively short tenure in my current job going to raise eyebrows when a HM sees my application?

    Prior to this job, I had a bunch of short-term contracts and went through a cycle of getting a lot of interviews but no job offers. chalked up to my lack of success to inexperience. However, I sent out 11 applications in the past month but have gotten no callbacks.

    1. Sabine the Very Mean*

      I’m not so sure it would raise red flags. It really seems like job-hopping is a thing that is happening more and more and in all generations of workers. However, I believe in my heart of hearts that my drive to stay in jobs for more than a year (and better yet, 2 or 3 years) is going to set me apart from others down the road.

      I too am sort-of-adjacent to the job I really want and am working towards. I have been in my position for a year now and have the chance to move to a more-my-speed position. But I am not going to take it because I really want to feel that I have mastered my role here first. I don’t think we allow ourselves that very often.

      1. Canadian Teapot*

        What gets up my nose is the way corporations all over constantly bang on with the mantra of “no job is safe!!!11ooneoneone” and “upskill! upskill! upskill!” and all those other post-1990s buzzwords designed to make sure no employee should ever have the chutzpah to demand being treated decently as their forebears were in the 1950s – 1970s, and then people turn around and sneer at “job-hopping”, even though “no job is safe”.

        I find that extremely hypocritical.

        1. Twinkle Toes*

          What get’s me even more? Being in an interview and getting that stupid question of “where do you see yourself 5 years from now” – when I ‘ve been laid off of multiple jobs (partly my industry but I guess after 20 years it’s also me :) – I’ve not job hopped on purpose but more so that I think I’m often seen as the most expendable (a single woman with no dependents) and therefore it’s “OK to lay me off” – some of the jobs I was ready to leave before I got laid off but after a while it hurts when you don’t get to leave of your own accoord….and then get accused of job hopping. *sigh*

  230. ElinorD*

    I’m curious about the legality/ethics of writing up an employee for something they post on social media. It was not something negative about the company or fellow employees. In a sense, it was equivalent to “I left early and didn’t tell anyone.” They didn’t miss meetings or any work assignments; they just left. No one noticed (to explain why would expose my industry), so the only way the supervisors knew was the social media post. Stupidly, this employee was connected with colleagues on the social media platform, but it still seems… iffy?

    BTW: I was not the employee or the supervisor!

    1. Anony*

      That seems fine. The employee admitted to leaving early. Being written up for leaving early does not seem unjustified. If the employer had to hack his account or something it would be different, but they found out because he told them (along with the rest of the world). Just because it was on social media does not give him immunity.

  231. ducky_worshiper*

    I’ve read this site for a while but never commented. I have a situation that I could use some advice. I have a coworker who I’m really struggling with. She has taken over multiple projects that I’ve started without telling me and then submitted them to my boss. She complains that I don’t communicate enough despite documenting things she needs to know in both email and saving them in folders she has access to. She decided this wasn’t good enough and now sits in on meetings I have with clients so that she can hear what we talk about rather than hear a summary from me. She refuses to give any information about what she’s working on, even when it’s a project I was originally assigned.

    I brought this up with my supervisor once and was told that my co-worker just wants to be helpful and is so kind and doesn’t mean anything by it. I’ve tried to let it go but she’s still doing it. Then during my annual performance evaluation my boss made an offhand comment when giving feedback about how everyone has room to improve because no one is perfect “except for [name of co worker]” which hit really hard both because it seemed incredibly inappropriate to say during my evaluation and also because of the greater context.

    I don’t want to keep bringing it up with my supervisor because I’m afraid that at this point I will look like the unreasonable one but I’m really not sure what to do.

    1. Thlayli*

      Sorry in advance – this is a bit long and ramble coz I don’t have time to tidy it up.

      What happens to the work you do on a project? Is she just swooping in at the end and finishing off the last little bit and getting all the glory? In that case can you just try not to leave almost-complete stuff for her to work on?

      Or is she actually doing work in parallel to you so you are both duplicating the work, but she’s doing it faster and submitting it to boss before you? On top of her own work also? It’s hard to believe she is finishing all her work on time, and finding time to do all your work too, and still finishing your work faster than you. That seems absolutely unbelievably fast, so I must not really understand the problem.

      I also don’t really understand why you are emailing all the info on your projects to your coworker in the first place, or giving her access to your files. Or telling her when meetings are taking place. In my experience people would only be given this info once they have been assigned to a project. And in this case since she refuses to tell you what she’s working on, it seems doubly strange that you are giving her so much info about the work you are doing. So that’s definitely something you should stop doing. Password protect your files, store them on you’re own laptop, don’t copy her on emails, don’t tell her when you’re meeting clients.

      How often do you meet your boss? Could you maybe set up a 1-1 meeting each week where you touch base about what you’re working on at that meeting, let boss know what you’re doing now and next, and confirm that boss is happy with the plan, and if not ask boss what you should be doing differently. Maybe make it crystal clear at these meetings that you have not assigned any tasks to coworker, and confirm that boss is ok with that. If boss tells you to assign work to her, or to “let her help” say something like “I’ve had issues in the past where Jane and I have both ended up working on the same task, so to avoid wasting either of our time, I want to make sure we understand clearly who is doing which task. So I just want to confirm, I am doing x and Jane is doing y. Agreed?” Or similar. Then after that meeting email Jane and cc boss to say “boss has decided you should do y for my llama project. I need this by Friday, will that be possible with your workload?”

      Viola you are now the project manager assigning her tasks, not having her snatch stuff away from you.

      If coworker complains that you aren’t giving her info she needs, ask her why she needs it. If she refuses to say, then tell her you will get back to her in a few minutes. Then call boss directly and say “Jane has requested info needed for task x. We agreed at our last meeting that I would do x and Jane would do y. Is that still the situation? Have you asked Jane to do x since I last spoke to you?”. If boss says something along the lines of “let her help” then you say “ok to ckarify, Jane is now doing x. I’ll work on the camel project instead.”

      Then email Jane and cc boss and say “boss has decided to assign x task to you also. Here is the info. I need both x and y by Friday to complete llama project on time. To confirm, I will not be doing any work on llama project this week, and Jane will produce both x and y for llama project by Friday. If this is not complete, the project will be delayed by a week.”

      Then just go work on the other project. If Jane actually gets it complete, great, you finish off the llama project and camel project on time and you are now a super efficient project manager, making use of Jane as a resource. and you get the glory, even tho Jane did a lot of the work.

      The trick to this is to keep ahold of the info, and only give her the info along with an official assignment of what to do with it. That way you are managing her role on the project, not just allowing her to pick and choose the bits that she works on and screwing up your workload.

      Hope this helps as I’m still not really sure I understand the situation fully!

  232. ????!??*

    I don’t feel like I’m performing well at my new job by my boss’s standards and I’m getting nervous. The deadlines he set seem unreasonable to me, but one of my coworker consistently meet these deadlines and he’s very happy with her. However, my boss doesn’t actually see the work we do (he only cares about the submit dates) and my coworker’s work is rather sloppy (when the deadlines are unreasonable, something has to go, and in this case it’s the quality of work).

    How do I bring it up without throwing my coworker under the bus? Also, although I realize the organization doesn’t have the healthiest culture, I’d still rather stay there for a few months than to be fired after just a few weeks. In the meantime, how do I manage my boss??

    1. RB*

      Is there some way to find out if he values quality over quantity, and where the sweet spot might be?
      If this is a new job, you should be getting more feedback and coaching than a person who’s been there awhile.

    2. Mephyle*

      Sort of saying the same thing as RB, can you talk with him about the priorities of the work in terms of speed vs. quality? Without mentioning the co-worker, tell him that you meet the deadlines if you sacrificed quality (if it’s true), and what would the consequences of that be? I mean, if your co-worker is not doing high-quality work, does anyone notice besides you? And what are the consequences of sloppy work down the line? Inferior product? Unhappy clients?…

    3. Thlayli*

      Unless you’re in a really regulated industry, it’s generally the boss who gets to decide on the level of speed versus quality.

      I am an engineer and we often had clients pay for a high level concept design study (think along the lines of “should we build a gas plant or a coal fired steam plant in this location?”)

      Often we would have engineers getting into waaaay too much detail for such high level concepts (“we need to compare three specific brands of gas turbine and 5 sizes of steam turbine, not just one gas versus one coal”) and it would be up the the project manager to have to get them to stop engineering and just finish the report. In this case the client would have paid for say 2-3 weeks of high level concept study, but these guys would be trying to do 4-5 weeks of outline design studies. Which would mean the project actually cost us money, instead of making money. But sometimes it would be very hard trying to explain to them that really, the client just wants and had only paid for the high level comparison at this stage.

      Like I said, if you are in an extremely regulated industry like medicine or pharma or finance, this may not apply, but in a lot of fields, speed can often be much more valuable than level of detail or accuracy to the tenth degree, or neat formatting, or whatever is applicable in your case.

  233. Jillociraptor*

    I would love to hear your stories and advice about improving the relationship between a nonprofit board of directors and the ED! I’m on a board of a local organization (though I plan to leave at the end of my term this year), and we’re really struggling to work productively with our ED.

    ED is the founder of the organization, and personally very nice, but difficult to communicate with professionally. She’s constantly paranoid the board is trying to overthrow her, interprets every action as a personal slight and through the most paranoid lens, and launches into rambling monologues whenever she’s asked for any information. Her perception is that the board does not support her, and while we are taking some honest steps to change some of our behaviors and expectations following her feedback, I really don’t know if she understands how much of this is in her control/part of her perception. There is a pretty long history of this behavior; for example, she remembers a past board trying to shut down the organization, while board members from that era have no such recollection. Knowing nearly all of the other board members personally, we may disagree with her at times, but there’s basically zero chance in my mind that someone is actually trying to undermine her.

    There are no issues with fiscal mismanagement or unethical behavior. Her staff generally have a great deal of respect for her, though do often have the same communication issues. The organization is struggling, but not in an unusual way. There are just huge missed opportunities at the highest level because of this mistrust and issues with communication, including that we’re hemorrhaging board members because they can’t stand to work with her.

    Any advice for improving a relationship like this?

  234. Kate H*

    I work full-time in an open concept office. Recently our team moved from a relatively isolated hallway to the busiest part of the building. People talking, phones ringing, doors banging as people go in and out of the breakroom, coworker behind me rolling his chair back and forth across the floor. My work is fairly self-sufficient. I only really need to talk to other people when there’s a problem or I’m finished with a task–and most of those conversations take place over irc.

    One of the perks of my job is I’m able to listen to podcasts/music all day. However, in the new loud environment, I’m having a lot of trouble focusing and finding that listening with my headphones with the added background noise is giving me headaches. I’m seriously considering bringing up whether it would be acceptable for me to get noise-cancelling headphones at my next quarterly review. Would it be out of line for me to ask if it would be possible to expense them? (One of my coworkers received a standing desk last year.) Also, anyone have any recommendations for noise-cancelling headphones? I’ve been using earbuds for the last decade and I’m not really sure where to start.

    1. Roses*

      My office went to an open office concept a couple years ago and I can’t stand it. I use my headphones constantly because with all the whispering and talking my coworkers do (its both job related and non) I can’t focus on my work. these aren’t noise canceling per se but I use Alloyseed (http://alloyseed.com/catalog/item-111.html). If i put the proper ear cover on them they are almost as good as noise canceling headphones. At home my fiance uses his beats headphones which he loves and swears by.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      You can certainly ask if the company will buy them for you! At my last, open-office job, I had a pair of Beats that I liked, bought by the company. They wore down pretty quickly, though. I now own a pair of Bose QuietComfort 35s; I don’t need them at work (I have an office with a door), but I use them at home and they are amazing. The noise-cancelling was a little disconcerting at first, but they work so well. They’re also pricey, so if your company will buy them for you, so much the better. I will say that I’m not thrilled with the microphone (I think it’s a little too sensitive; no one wants to hear me chopping onions during a phone call), but they’re great headphones.

  235. AnonyNewb*

    Generally just a lurker here, but I feel compelled to post because…
    I FINALLY GOT A JOB OFFER THIS WEEK!!! :D :D :D :D :D

    I’ve been looking for a new job for over a year now, and I’m SO SO happy it’s finally paid off. My work environment has gotten pretty toxic and stressful over the past year/year and a half, and I was also feeling incredibly stuck in my role with no hopes of any growth in the company.

    I gave my notice earlier this week and can’t wait to start my new job at the end of the month.

    1. RB*

      Excellent! Don’t be afraid to negotiate for a better salary. Sometimes if there’s no wiggle room on the salary they can offer you a sign-on bonus or a better vacation package.

  236. Canadian Teapots*

    I’m curious if there is any way to specifically seek out smaller businesses where I could take opportunities to cross-train in a number of roles, especially getting some hands-on experience with common software packages like Banner? I would welcome the chance to stretch myself out a little after several years in school and I would make it clear I’m not averse to the “working from the ground up” that such a job would require.

  237. Taxguy*

    So, my old employer distributes their W2s through a company HR portal. But, I can’t log on to the company HR portal. When I try to use the forgot password link, I get a message saying “This service is not available. Please contact the Administrator.” That’s the entire message. No phone number or other contact data is given. I’ve emailed my old department’s HR contacts a couple times but they haven’t responded. I’m getting a little antsy. Help!

    1. Canadian Teapot*

      *fingers crossed for you*

      One time I needed a T4 slip and I had some issues with the portal (not sure why, but anyhow…) – luckily the HR person was in the other building and the hierarchy wasn’t too formal, so I just emailed in advance, knocked on their door, introduced myself and asked if I could get a paper copy or PDF.

      10 minutes later I was back out the door with my slip. Hope it goes that smoothly for you!

      1. Taxguy*

        Oh no… this is my old company, and it’s a 2 hour drive to get to the office HR sat in (big company). Their attitude toward getting back to you is “you’re lucky if we do.” It took them 3 weeks to get me a copy of the vacation policy, and at first they insisted on telling me it over the phone.

        I was hoping to have an easy time with my taxes this year, too! 2017 was the first year where everything was simple and I worked in the same state I live in…

    2. Enough*

      Contact the IRS. I believe the number is 800-829-1040. Then file your taxes using form 4852 if you don’t get the W2 in time. You will need the information from your last pay stub which should show all your totals. And start calling the company and maybe find contact information for someone much higher up the food chain.

  238. Pink & Gray*

    Short story: Recently I did business with a famous person and mentioned I liked his work (once, calmly); after that, someone else got his autograph for me without me knowing. In my next correspondence with him, should I thank him, or just let it be so he doesn’t feel weird about it?

    Long story:
    Recently, a famous person of whom I’m a fan called to request (let’s say) a tea set inscribed with his initials on it. Monogram tea sets are my specialty, so his call was directed to me. I was sort of freaking out inside, but of course took his call professionally, and then had to follow up with emails about the font of the initials and such. He then came to my workplace and it was my job to make sure he was okay with the quality of the tea set before taking his payment. Again, I behaved as I would with any other customer, but at the end, also mentioned that I really liked his work, and that I was looking forward to his future projects. He was kind of awkward about it and asked me not to mention anything from our interaction to other fans, which of course I assured him I wouldn’t do, as this is my job and I take it very seriously.

    Apparently, on the way out of the building, he met my coworker, who was also his acquaintance from high school. My coworker asked for his autograph for my sake, and went so far as asking him to write “to [my name]” on it. I found this out after he had already left and my coworker gave me the autograph.

    While he was picking up his tea set, he asked if I was able to prepare a different kind of teapot for him, and I said I would look into it and get back to him by email. When I email him back, should I put in a thank you for the autograph? Something like “Also, thank you for the autograph,” at the end of the email. I keep going back and forth between whether or not I should keep the fan aspect out of any future correspondence so he doesn’t feel uncomfortable, or whether he would like to hear that I appreciated what he did for me. I’d like to hear what people think about this!

    1. Anony*

      If he was “kind of awkward about it” when you mentioned you were a fan, I wouldn’t bring it up again, even to thank him. The best thinks would probably be to keep all correspondence strictly professional.

      1. Pink & Gray*

        Thanks, I sort of figured as much! I felt bad when I found out my coworker had asked for the autograph at all, but since it was already done there wasn’t much I could do about it.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      I’ve never had this happen, so I’m not speaking from experience, but if I were in your shoes, I’d keep it strictly professional and not mention the autograph. Your emails to him are only being written in the first place because you are conducting a business transaction with him, making him a customer you want to treat as well as you would any other customer. So, I’d leave the thank-you out of it. If he asks whether you got the autograph in his response to you, that would be an appropriate time to say your colleague passed it on to you, and to thank him for taking the time to create it. If you maintain your professionalism throughout your correspondence, it’s likely he will give your company even more business by recommending it to his friends and associates. You sound like someone who does this routinely, anyway, so don’t break your stride now.

      1. Pink & Gray*

        Thanks for weighing in! Of course I’ve never been famous before, so I was looking from my personal perspective of “I’d be happy to know someone appreciated what I did,” but I think it must really be different for famous people. I feel really strongly that I don’t want to make him feel uncomfortable or like I would ever break his confidentiality (as with all customers, haha), so I agree that I should just keep it professional!

    3. Blue Eagle*

      Absolutely not. Someone else interrupted him for the autograph so for you to bring it up while dealing with him in a work context would have a weird feeling. (At least if I were in his shoes, I would prefer that you leave the fandom part out of our professional relationship.)

      1. Pink & Gray*

        Thanks for your comment! Reading everyone else’s opinion, I realized my gut feeling of wanting to keep it professional from now on was right; I was getting caught up in thinking it would be rude not to say thank you, when really, the situation is different from a normal situation where you’d want to thank someone for something they gave you.

  239. Shamone*

    NYC recently passed a law making it illegal to ask a candidate for their salary history. Has anyone else had problems with recruiters ignoring this? Because I have. I was on the phone with a recruiter yesterday, and when I declined to answer, he hung up on me.

    Recruiter: “What are you making right now?”
    Me: “I thought that was confidential. I can tell you what my target salary range is-”
    Recruiter: “If I’m going to work with you, I need to know your current salary. No one has ever had a problem telling me how much they make. You’re being an entitled Millennial.” *hang up*

    I’m not sure if it’s worth saying anything… this recruiter is self employed (runs his own agency). He doesn’t live in NYC either (his area code and LinkedIn say he’s based in MA). But I’m kinda bothered by it.

    1. Anony*

      I don’t know whether that law would apply to him. If the job isn’t in NYC then he isn’t really ignoring the law, it is just irrelevant. Also, since he isn’t the employer and is not making hiring decisions, I don’t know whether the law would prohibit him from asking your salary even if he is in NYC.

      He is definitely a jerk though. You will find a better recruiter to work with.

    2. Hmm*

      ” No one has ever had a problem telling me how much they make. ”

      Honestly, that line alone makes me think he’s a liar. Tied in with being super rude, I’d say you’re better off without someone like that. I wouldn’t want a guy like that representing me to a company.

    3. Someone else*

      This guy sounds like an asshole. However, one thing you could try to do if this happens again is instead of saying “I thought that was confidential” say “You may not realize this, but it’s recently become illegal to ask that in New York”. If the job they’re recruiting for isn’t in NY they may not care, but if you’re in NY it should be reasonable that you say that. Anyone who reacts like he did to you objecting is not worth working with though.

    4. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      He actually called you “an entitled Millennial?” What.

      So, I’m not a lawyer, but I searched and Massachusetts isn’t currently under a history ban. Theirs looks like it goes into effect in July. But even so, I’d need an actual lawyer to tell me whether he would be theoretically in violation. MA’s statute specifies employer, while NYC’s includes employment agencies.

      But even if he’s not breaking the law, he’s a huge jerk. His insulting you over a reasonable rejection is a huge red flag – do you really want to give that guy a commission?

  240. Seeking a New Future*

    I am less than a month from losing a job that I love. I have an interview on Monday morning for a job that is starting out as temp with a good chance to go perm. The job is a lateral transfer that will make good use of my present skill set.

    But I have a dress code problem. I need to wear a suit for the interview or at least a blazer. I have been to seven stores trying to find one (I am short and very plus sized), and have yet to find anything that fits right and is appropriate for an interview in a conservative field. This is not a problem in my present job, as we dress casual and I have not needed a suit since I got here.

    1. periwinkle*

      If you live anywhere within driving distance of a Talbots store which carries their plus-size line, go. The styling is conservative and they have petite plus blazers and suits up to 22W (regular plus goes to 24W).

  241. Uncharted Territory*

    I’m kind of in a pickle. I was wrongfully terminated after having filed a harassment complaint at work ( my employer is stating I was terminated because of my “conduct”). I have already retained an employment attorney. I’m starting my job search and I’m not exactly sure what to do. I have never been terminated in my life up until this point.

    How do I answer the reason for leave questions with being in this current situation?

    I’m also unsure of how much to ask for compensation wise. I was a salaried Supervisor making just shy of $60,000 a year. I was promoted from within as a part time hourly employee making $18.75 an hour. I’m not wanting to get back into management but I do feel my experience as a Supervisor should garner a little more compensation than what I was making before I was promoted. On the flip side I do not want to ask for too much and end up running the risk of being knocked out for consideration for a position.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

    1. Close Bracket*

      Oh, this is tricky! I was in a similar situation, and I told someone in an interview that I left bc I didn’t get along with my supervisor, and he was like, yeah, we’ve all been there (I was not that terse in the interview). However, that only works if your interviewer really has been there. If they haven’t, or if they were in a tough situation and made it work, they won’t understand why you couldn’t make it work. People get judgmental about that kind of thing.

      Do some googling on explaining why you were fired. There is a lot of advice out there.

  242. Shakespeare for Hire*

    Anybody have any suggestions on freelance work? I was unexpectedly laid off last month and am going to start doing freelance until I find something more permanent. I’m using an agency to help get me clients and I can say yes or no as I please, but I’ve never freelanced before and am not really sure what to expect. Any big things or red flags I should look out for?
    Side note: I can’t say enough how great this community is. I wrote in the open thread when I was laid off and I received a lot of great advice and words of encouragement from people. Alison, you have really created a great community and I’m really appreciative that it’s here.

    1. Wrench Turner*

      Freelancing varies with industry. Freelancing art is not the same as computer / tech, trades consulting, etc. Your mileage will vary.

      Most importantly – have a contract that sets out when you will work, what exactly you will do, what you will be paid and what will happen if it doesn’t work (Do you keep a deposit, they owe you a penalty, etc). Don’t do any work without it, and make sure your fees are worth your time. Don’t do ‘favors’ (IE work for free) for anyone, or ‘just a little preview’ or ‘a quick sketch for us’ etc. Time = money. Any time you put in is money owed. If they can’t respect that they don’t deserve your business.

      2nd most important: Keep all your receipts for everything. Travel, supplies, vehicle mileage. Anything and everything you spend on keeping this freelancing going. If you have quarterly tax filings, etc make sure you do them. I love spreadsheets for exactly this.

      Good luck. You got this.

  243. Twinkle Toes*

    I was recently contacted by a well known recruiter in my city (I’d been in contact with his office before but always with other staff). I said yes to an initial meeting with a firm that seemed interesting but I had to reschedule right away. In the updated invite, I believe he inadvertently left information that the client had relayed to him about their concern about my experience in a certain area of expertise and that I’ve job hopped a lot PLUS I was more experienced than they were looking for and they were only “half interested” in meeting with me.

    I am super busy at my current office and in my personal life. For me to take two hours out of my day to meet with someone (and lie to my bosses and be expected to either take what little vacation time I have or have to make up the extra hours on my already overloaded schedule ) for an iffy prospect doesn’t seem like a good use of my time. I’ve tried to brush him off nicly and then I was very direct with him. I even sent him a screen shot of the calendar appointment with the damming commentary on it.

    He responded with a “Hmm that’s interesting, let’s talk about it.”

    I really don’t see what there “is” to talk about.

    I don’t want to piss this person off, he’s been around a long time and is obviously successful /good at his business (ie very pushy). I’ve tried to put him off nicely but I really don’t want to deal with him nor am I actually as ready for a job search as I’d like to think I am.

    Am I over reacting or what else do I need to do to get rid of this recruiter?

    1. soupmonger*

      Email him and tell him thanks for his interest, but you’re not interested in meeting. That’s it – just ‘no’. If he’s unprofessional enough to have left comments about you in the diary, are you really interested in doing business with him?

    2. CM*

      Why do you want him to think you are more ready to job search than you actually are? It seems like the path of least resistance is to just tell him that if an excellent opportunity came along you would be willing to consider it, but you are happy with your current job for now and do not have time to meet with someone only half interested in you?

  244. Alianora*

    Ha, so Thursday was my first day at my new job. One of my new coworkers walks into the room and I say, “Hi, I’m Alianora!” He looks at me flatly and says, “I know who you are,” then turns away.

    I think it came out differently than he intended. He seems like an okay guy. But it’s such a blunt reaction that I can’t help but laugh when I think about it.

  245. ..Kat..*

    So, I have a security problem at work. I am a nurse working on a hospital unit. We all have badges that we are supposed to wear. If we see someone not wearing a badge, we are supposed to ask to see their badge. We have annual “integrity” training that stresses the wearing of badges and the asking to see someone’s badge if they are not wearing one.
    So, I am taking care of a patient (let’s call them X). A consulting group of doctors goes into X’s room without talking with me (the nurse) or with any of the doctors on my unit first (I verified this by checking with my unit’s doctors). I see ‘some people’ going into X’s room, I don’t know who they are. So, I go into X’s room. I say, “I am X’s nurse, may I ask who you are?” The group of three people tell me that they are Y doctor service. I see that one of them does not have a badge. So I say, “may I see your badge?” At this point, I am invited to discuss this outside of the patient’s room. At which point, I am berated for ‘interupting’ important patient care. I ask if they know the proper procedures to follow when they do not have their badge. Can you guess where this is going? This person is furious that I am questioning them. I let my manager know that I am having a problem with this.

    My manager now has let me know that she wants to follow up with me. I am pretty sure that she will tell me that I was unprofessional, or rude, or something such as this. I am so tired of being told that I am ‘rude’ when in fact I am simply trying to ensure the security rules that all are supposed to follow. I am required to ensure these security provisions. But, if I do anything to ensure these provisions, I am ‘rude’ or even worse. If I don’t challenge non-badge wearers, I am also in violation. But, non-badge wearers don’t seem to have any repercussions. This is quite a catch 22 for me. Also very frustrating.

    Any suggestions?

    1. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      I agree everyone should wear a badge and you are correct about that. And you were correct to ask who the group was.

      In this situation, it sounds like everyone in a group that was together was wearing a badge except for one person? Perhaps the most senior person? I would think that the other people in the group wearing badges would vouch for this person. In this situation, it seems unlikely that the patient’s safety was being compromised.

      So I guess reading the situation is better than unbending rule upholding? One stranger? Absolutely challenge. Group of identified hospital employees one person forgot badge? Maybe don’t challenge.

    2. Marthooh*

      Don’t guess about what your manager will say. Ask her for clarification about exceptions to the rule. Maybe Cheesesteak is right, but there’s only one way to find out for sure.

    3. Anono-me*

      Next time feed the floor doctors to the badgeless lions.

      Seriously next time you need to deal with someone who might be on an ego trip, get one of the floor doctors or your manager to accompany you into the room. Or just default to asking for security anytime you see someone without a badge. After all you are a nurse; not a security guard.

      Goodluck.

  246. A Nickname for AAM*

    I started a new job with a really complicated onboarding process. I received a dozen or so emails from their software to enroll my account, and then had an in-person meeting with HR. The software was really glitchy and kept timing me out, and the in-person orientation turned out to be a busy group meeting.

    In all the chaos, I realized I have not received any written confirmation of my salary. If it is incorrect, do I stay home from work until it is fixed? Or am I supposed to quit without giving notice if they refuse to fix it?

    1. CM*

      The most likely scenario is that they will in fact pay you the correct amount. If you are concerned about it, call HR to get the number ASAP. Do you have reason to think they will try to pay you less than the agreed upon amount? If there is a mistake, chances are that they will in fact fix it.

      1. A Nickname for AAM*

        There’s been a lot of shady stuff happen so far, and I’ve only been there at the same time as my boss for four days.

    2. Wrench Turner*

      Contact HR and your boss immediately. Get your written details of your employment in writing – make it clear this must have been an unintentional oversight- but you cannot proceed until this is done.

  247. AnonyMouse*

    So I’m immensely appreciative of the open thread and the support I’ve received as I’m moving forward with my job search. I just wanted to update that my annual review in my current job went well (I posted last week that I was worried about being asked directly by my supervisor if I was searching. I still got the sense that he knows I am without me saying so, but it didn’t come up thankfully)! However, my search has hit a lag… not much in the area I’m looking was posted this past week and I haven’t been contacted about interviews :( I’m going to keep moving forward though!

    I do have a question for this week. So my workload is picking up (March and April are busy times in my industry) to where my schedule is full about two weeks out. If I get contacted for interviews (it’s also pretty standard in my industry to do a phone screening first, then in person interviews), is it reasonable to ask for more specific information about when they’re looking to bring candidates in person (i.e. specific dates, etc)? In my experience they’ve usually given vague timelines, but if I know dates they’re planning to bring people in I can hold them on my calendar before things that I can’t cancel get scheduled for those dates. I’d also explain the situation with my workload as my reasoning for asking.

    1. Wrench Turner*

      I wouldn’t stress too much. When it comes to the point of “next steps” in any interviews, make clear that it’s harvest season for your current job so they will have to be flexible -as will you- and just go with it. Companies that you’re interviewing with that refuse to work with you now are not working with later.

  248. Scinonymous*

    I kind of have a doozy of a situation at work. For context, I work for a newish company that was a small startup that grew exponentially. Some of our systems, especially around new product design are not very

    I am representing my (very small, very specialized) group in part of a huge, very involved project to launch a new line of teapots, which will require hundreds of new kinds of materials. My initial role on the team and my deliverables involved things like developing and writing specifications and procedures for handling and testing all these new materials, working with vendors on materials that needed customization, and communicating what these materials were and estimated consumption to Supply Chain/Inventory, so that they could set them up in the inventory system, begin planning, and work on negotiation of pricing and contracts.
    I ran into a road block when procurement refused to buy any material to prepare for the actual production launch. Our timeline for this new line of teapots is very tight–the time between process validation and actual launch of this line of teapots is a matter of days. Supply Chain said they absolutely could not and would not purchase anything until the validation was complete. I pointed out that this would significantly delay launch, as many of the materials required had lead-times of several months. The VP (to whom both my team and Supply Chain report) backed them up because he didn’t want inventory cost sitting on his books and the decision was that I would purchase everything through the requisition system under the R&D budget and we would reconcile everything later. This is absolutely outside my job function, but because my boss and the VP told me to do it, I did it so as not to delay the project.
    The long and short of this meant that I have been working 80+ hours a week for nearly two months now, because I have had to work as a one-person team doing procurement, planning, and managing the storage and testing of all this material, in addition to my regular job functions in preparation for launch. My direct supervisor does little to nothing to help me because he has other job responsibilities and “can’t work late because he has kids”. The only other person on my team is off-site
    Despite the long hours and the fact that I haven’t had a day off in weeks because I’ve been working 7 days a week to try to keep up, I’m still behind because this is not a tenable amount of work for a single person. Our supply chain team has 8 or 9 people who normally do this kind of work. Also, because I am not part of their team, I don’t have access to any of the tools they normally use to manage inventory and purchases. I have been tracking everything the best I can on spreadsheets, but it’s not really how this kind of thing is supposed to be managed.
    Everyone else involved in this project (including even C-level individuals who are heavily monitoring this project because it is such a big deal) thinks this is really messed up, and tells me so, but no action has been taken to do anything to lighten my workload. Also, I am now getting scolded by Finance, who says that I should not have done what was asked, because this will be very difficult to reconcile (which I had pointed out when asked to do this in the first place). But the VP will not budge on this and in fact has told me to stop talking about it and stop pushing back, because I am “airing dirty laundry” about his teams.
    I am getting to the point where I’m so exhausted that I’m finding it difficult to be professional and pleasant. I’m overly emotional and have a hair-trigger temper lately, because I have not had any downtime. I’m worried that that is hurting my professional reputation with the other teams I work with. I’m also worried I won’t get everything done and cause a launch delay. And I’m worried I have caused irreparable harm to my reputation with our VP and my boss, because I am now being told I’m a “difficult” worker. I will admit that as the weeks have gone by, I’m being less constructive, because I’m running out of energy and I am fatigued.
    Is there something I can do to salvage my reputation here? Does anyone have some strategies for getting through something like this?

    1. Wrench Turner*

      You have a couple of options: Keep talking to your boss (and their boss and HR if you have one) that your workload is unsustainable and causing problems you can’t (and shouldn’t) handle. Keep making noise until this is fixed. Or let it all fall apart. Do your best within your job scope but stop trying to kill yourself, stop doing other peoples’ jobs, etc. Mr. Can’t Stay Late’s reason (kids) isn’t any more important than your reason for not staying late (pets, a very sensitive cactus, pottery class, scheduled meditation session), so go home at a reasonable hour guilt free. The dysfunction is so clearly up the chain and nobody is going to do anything about it, so stop stressing. Or look for a new job. I suggest this most of all.

      1. Scinonymous*

        I have started putting in applications, because deep down, even though it took longer than it should have, I know that this is screwed up.

        I hate the idea of letting it all fall apart, because I know my VP will call for my head on a plate and I can’t afford to get fired. He scoped this work on to me, however unreasonably, and if I delay this important launch, I know he’ll use it as an excuse to fire me.

  249. Volunteer Enforcer*

    Should I do anything about this or am I overreacting? Up to this point I have had a good relationship with the CEO of my employer. A leaver, who I also get on well with disclosed that this CEO displayed really bad anger management, in his words “shouted at him and treated him like shit emotionally before his resignation”. This feels like a big lie of omission as I had no idea about this in all the time I’ve known the guy. Should I say anything to anyone? My current plan of action is to remain civil whilst cutting out entirely the friends at work relationship we once had. I may try asking the CEO about this to see if it is as bad as I think (I think I still have enough of a comfortable dynamic with him for this to be natural as he has no idea that I know).

    1. Chaordic One*

      No you should not do anything, but it is always disconcerting to find out that someone whom you liked and respected isn’t quite the person you thought they were. I wouldn’t say anything to most people, but a possible exception might be the next person who turns in his or her resignation, if you know about it in advance, just to let them know that the CEO has in the past not always taken such news very well. (Forewarned is forearmed.)

      Your plan of remaining civil while cutting out the friends at work relationship sounds like a good idea to me. I certainly would not ask the CEO about it, unless you’re willing to risk your relationship with him. If you’re brave and willing to take a risk you might say something along the lines of, “It is so sad that Fergus is resigning, we’re going to miss him,” and see how the CEO responds to it. Yes, it’s a bit passive-aggressive. But, you don’t HAVE TO to say anything to anyone.

  250. Wrench Turner*

    I’m crazy ramping up the training/studying for my new job’s certification program. New Boss had me originally going to headquarters in Memphis in 6 weeks in May, “I want you to have plenty of time to train in the field and study before your trip” to “You’re going in April and need to have everything done a week before you leave” which is now only 3 weeks. Online training modules, and a 2000+ page work book with really poor quality technical drawings I need to reference. I’m not paid by the hour but by commission for field services done, so none of this mandatory book/online time is compensated. It’s so, so frustrating.

    On the bright side, the training/certification trip is in Memphis which means I get to take a road trip (I LOVE ROAD TRIPS – anyone been to Graceland?) and get some great BBQ. Also, in captive audience car time with the Boss who can be condescending like he’s my dad, it’s been made clear that he’s hoping to sell the franchise to me in two years or so, which is exciting. Not because I want to be a small business owner (my other job is freelance already and I’m never giving that up) but because I like residual income and having flexibility to have time with/for kids and volunteering.

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