I got in trouble because my coworker saw maxi pads in my car, and more

by Alison Green on April 12, 2018

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. I got written up because my coworker saw maxi pads in my car

One of my coworkers complained because she saw a package of maxi pads in the backseat of my car when she parked near me in our parking lot. I had stopped at the store on the way into work, and they were in a bag along with shampoo and toothpaste. I got a write-up for it by HR and my boss told me not to do it again and keep them private. I was actually shocked when I was spoken to about it. I want to know if I should push back on this and say anything and how I should do it? I would be curious to hear your thoughts.

You got written up because someone saw a box of maxi pads in your car??

IN YOUR CAR?

My head is exploding.

What’s going to happen if next time your coworker sees other toiletries in your car, like — gasp — toothpaste? Would she object to seeing a 12-pack of toilet paper too?

This is ridiculous and offensive and misogynist, and you should push back on it. Go back to HR and/or your boss and say, “I’d like you to remove that write-up from my file. There’s nothing inappropriate about having toiletries in my car, whether it’s a pack of toilet paper, a box of maxi pads, or a bottle of shampoo. There’s nothing dirty or shameful about feminine hygiene products, and we’re on awfully shaky ground in penalizing someone for having normal, everyday products in their car just because they happen to be for women. There is no reason that I should have a disciplinary note in my file about this.”

After I initially read your letter, I posted on Twitter about it because I was enraged and Twitter was full of excellent suggestions for you, but I think this one was the best.

Read an update to this letter here.

2. Was I tricked into leaving?

I am an American citizen working abroad. I am the only foreigner in my large company overseen by the government of the country where I live, and my salary is paid by a grant from the government to my employer. Several weeks ago, a colleague asked me if I knew that the government had sent my employer a warning that they may not continue to provide that grant after this contract ends. I had not hear that, and was very surprised to hear it mentioned so casually. The colleague called over another coworker, who confirmed that it was true. On the next work day, I went to my manager to ask about it, She said that it was true, and they would not find out if they were receiving the grant for several months. I asked why I had not been formally told, and she said they hadn’t wanted to worry me.

For visa reasons, I could not wait until the timeline offered by my manager to find out if the position would be extended. I interviewed with several companies and accepted an excellent job. I am excited about it.

I gave notice at my current job to my manager’s boss. He was absolutely shocked, and said that there was no question at all about the grant being continued. They had already received the money. He got in touch the government body that funds the grant for me, and they confirmed that for me. There was never any question about my employment.

Today, I got a short message from my manager saying that they only found out today that the grant would be continued and that it was sad that I had already decided to leave. I have not replied to that, because I don’t know what to say.

As crazy as it sounds, I’m genuinely wondering if these three colleagues could have deliberately set into motion a plan to make me quit? I have been told that my manager is a bit uncomfortable with having a foreigner on staff, but all of my evaluations have been exceeds-expectations or above and I’m generally well-liked at work. Still, I can’t figure out what else might have happened here. Should I share these concerns with my manager’s boss? Ask my manager for an explanation (although she is very non-verbal and I’m not sure I will get a real reply)? Just let it go, because I have no real evidence of anything? It makes no difference to my future plans; I will start my new job soon regardless. But the confusion is really getting to me.

Wow, yeah, either your manager was pushing you out, or there was a major miscommunication somewhere. The latter is definitely possible — it could be that your manager’s boss wasn’t fully in the loop about the grant situation, or it could be that somehow your manager had her info wrong. But it’s alarming enough that it’s worth looking into — because if your manager did do this behind her own boss’s back, that’s a big deal and he should know about it.

Skip your manager because that will give her time to potentially concoct a cover story, and go straight to your manager’s boss. In fact, I’d just forward him the email your manager sent you and say something like, “See below from Jane. Given our conversation, I’m really confused! Do you have a minute to talk with me about this?” (Alternately, you could email them both at the same time and say, “I’m really confused about this because Bob told me last week that there was no question about the grant being continued, and he confirmed with Agency that the money was received a while ago. I of course wouldn’t have job searched if I’d known that, so it seems like there might be a major miscommunication here.”)

3. Can I approach my boss about things feeling off?

Recently my department has been undergoing a lot of changes that have led to my boss being completely swamped. There have also been changes in management that mean he’s helping to train and onboard new people above his head while still managing the rest of our team. He’s been noticeably exhausted and short-tempered, and his emails and other communication have been very curt.

I’m having trouble distinguishing actual displeasure with my work from all the general stress response of things being chaotic. I’ve been trying to speak up and step forward more, taking a more aggressive role (this has been part of my ongoing professional goals as discussed in reviews), and his responses to that have been blunt and critical — but always very targeted, so I’m not sure if he’s displeased overall or trying to give feedback on the weak points without bothering to include a general “good job.”

I know the obvious response is to pull him aside for a five-minute meeting and ask, but since he’s so swamped, I don’t want to add more on his plate in the form of having to deal with my feelings. On the other hand, these particular feelings are stemming from his actual job. Still, it feels wrong to bother him about it. What do you think?

If you’re feeling unsure about how you’re doing overall, that’s very much a work-related thing that’s worth asking your boss about. Don’t discount it by framing it to yourself as just about your feelings! If there are problems, you need to know about them so you can correct them — and if there aren’t problems, you need to know that so that you’re not expending energy stressing out about the wrong things.

So yes, ask! If he’s so busy that you can’t realistically get a separate meeting with him, bring it up the next time you’re already talking to him about something else. Say something like, “Can I ask how you think things are going overall? You’ve given me some really helpful feedback recently, but my sense is that you’ve had more criticism of my work than usual and I wasn’t sure if there might be broader concerns with my work that I should be tackling, or if you’re overall happy with what I’m doing.”

4. Can I put my “exceeds expectations” performance review score on my resume?

For the first time, I got “Exceeds Expectations” (an A+ at my company) on my performance review this year. I’m currently job searching because I’m likely to be laid off in a couple of months, and I was wondering if there’s any way to mention this evaluation on my resume. If not, do you think it would be all right to mention it during an interview if something comes up that makes it relevant?

Don’t put it on your resume. Employers won’t have any way to know how rigorous the performance review standards are at your company, and it could come across as giving too much weight to something that doesn’t warrant it. The exception to this is if you can contextualize it with something like “performance was rated in top 1% of employees in 2018,” and then ideally explain why. (But even then, I’d leave “exceeds expectations” off, because there are so many companies where loads of people score that.)

The same advice applies to interviews. The rating on its own isn’t worth bringing up, but if there’s a way to say that you were rated in the top X% of employees and why (because it doesn’t stand on its own as well as it does with context attached), that’s fine to do.

5. Including legal work status on your resume

I’ve had the privilege to review a lot of resumes recently, and it appears common (in the U.S.) for an applicant to state their visa or residency status. Would you advise all applicants putting that on their resumes? As a citizen I never thought to add it, but should I/we?

You’re more likely to see this in fields that typically hire a lot of foreign-born workers (where legal work status comes up all the time) or sometimes from candidates whose education or work history is outside the U.S. (and so they want to preemptively answer any questions about their legal eligibility to work here). But it’s not something you’re expected to include in general.

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  1. hiptobesquare*

    #1: Not a ton to add other than my brain exploded too and I’m sorry you’re in this situation. This is ridiculous. Push back.

      1. Melody Pond*

        This is a bit combative of me, but I’m so flabbergasted by this one, that… if it were me, I’d just keep leaving menstrual products visible in my car, wait for the disciplinary action to escalate, and then go talk to a lawyer.

        1. kb*

          I’d start wearing a menstrual cup like a party hat or something. I’m just… is everyone working at this company a middle schooler??

          1. Melody Pond*

            Oh man, even better. That is 1,000% something I would consider doing at this point, if I were the OP #1.

              2. Artemesia*

                Yes. What was the co-worker doing snooping in your car. And on what planet is being a woman ‘icky’ and worthy of a write up. This is grossly sexist as well as incredibly stupid. I can imagine a boss asking an employee to keep personal products out of sight at their desk especially if clients are likely to be in the area but there should be NO interest in ordinary toiletries in a sack in the back seat of your car. This deserves a lot of pushback, but most of all it is a signal to start looking for a job with people who are not complete idiots.

                1. Beaded Librarian*

                  What gets me the most with the whole thing is the OP says she so apparently the coworker who complained was a WOMAN! Seriously its bad enough that men can’t handle it a woman being unable to handle the idea of a coworker having pads IN THEIR OWN CAR feels so much worse.

                3. Michaela Westen*

                  Having grown up in a fundamentalist area, I bet I can guess what your area is like and what type of person this is.
                  Unfortunately, if it’s like the area I’m from, it may not be possible to find better colleagues at another job. Maybe taking legal action would help.
                  If it helps, this woman who got you in trouble is probably so uptight and beaten down by chauvinism she’s really miserable.

              3. Not So NewReader*

                If OP is wrong for “displaying” pads, shouldn’t the reporting coworker also be written up for “mentioning” pads? Just wondering… I am not familiar with this planet yet.

          2. Yvette*

            Exactly, they were in her CAR!!! Not as though they were on her desk in an open cube farm. To be honest, I would feel that would be out of place, but I would feel the same way about a pack of condoms or a boxed enema, or a pregnancy test. I would not comment or complain to HR, but I would look at it and think “Really?, you couldn’t put it in a bag or something?” But again, I realize that is my personal hang-up and I wouldn’t force, or voice my opinion.

            1. LouiseM*

              I think we did have a question where someone was reprimanded for having maxi pads or tampons or medicine or something along those lines sitting out on their desk, but I don’t remember the results.

                1. Tequila Mockingbird*

                  Yes, there was a LW recently who asked about the “etiquette” of taking birth control pills at her desk. IIRC, Allison told her it was no big deal, and no different than taking Ibuprofen or anything else. I don’t think anyone actually complained about what the LW was doing, though.

            2. Engineer Girl*

              It goes beyond the car. The pads were inside of wrappers that were inside a package that was inside a bag (with toothpaste and shampoo). So technically the coworker never saw the actual pads. Maybe just a corner of the package? So it was already private.

              It’s pretty clear someone went shopping and that the pads were one of several items in the bag. And it was left in the car, not brought into the office.

              I’d like to point out that you can have gender based harassment of the same gender. And this is so out of line that I might push back to HR with it.

              Was any basis given for the complaint? Was it considered offensive? Sexist? On what grounds was the complaint made? Because “I’m offended by that” is a weak justification.

              Really. I’d demand to know what was the basis of the complaint, how it violated the employeee handbook, and how it justified an actual write up. HR better be willing to back it up.

              1. Triple Anon*

                Right. Politely ask for a logical explanation. That way you keep the higher ground and the ball is in their court. They have to find a rule that it violates and explain the reasoning behind it all.

              2. ErinW*

                If an unopened bag of maxi pads is so shocking to witness, how does this person/people at this company handle going to the grocery store, where they are just stacked up on the shelves for the world to see?

                1. Evan Þ.*

                  Stay out of that aisle?

                  Just walk past and resolutely refuse to take any notice? That’s what I do – but then, I’d do the same if I saw them in my coworker’s car, so no idea what this person would do.

                2. Michaela Westen*

                  This reminds me of the episode of King of the Hill where all the other adults were away and Connie got her first period. Hank had to take her to (gasp) Aisle 8!
                  He survived, he did *not* punish her, and everyone was happy.

            3. CityMouse*

              I do think that is a bit if a hang up. I keep tampons and pads in my desk drawer and have, on occasion, pulled them out when a coworker has asked for them. I do not think tampons or pads are even similar to condoms and sexualizing menstruation is absurd.

              2. PB*

                Same here. I don’t keep them out in the open, for the same reasons that I don’t keep my bottle of aspirin, emergency bus fare, or chocolate stash in the open. Not because they’re dirty, but because there’s no reason for them to be *out*. But I’m not embarrassed to have them or try to hide them, per se. Menstruation is a biological function.

              3. Yorick*

                I think Yvette just meant that they are so personal, not that they’re sexual (besides condoms, she compared them to a boxed enemea)

                1. SarahTheEntwife*

                  But one doesn’t normally perform enemas at work. (I hope?) Menstrual products are a perfectly normal thing to use at work. It’s more like keeping a roll of toilet paper on your desk if the staff bathrooms keep running out — it looks kind of cluttered, but it’s not exactly TMI to know that my coworkers, in a general sense, probably pee sometimes.

                2. Yvette*

                  Yes, that is what I meant. Thank you Yorick. I would also feel the same way about a box of Depends or hemorrhoid cream. And again, I realize that is MY personal hang-up and I wouldn’t force, or voice my opinion or go running to HR.

              4. Kalamet*

                Indeed. My last company had baskets of tampons sitting out in every women’s restroom. They were lifesavers on occasion, let me tell you.

                1. TheCupcakeCounter*

                  Same – large basket of a variety of tampons, maxi pads, panty liners, and other products available to all

                1. mialoubug*

                  I have vodka in my desk drawer. A gift from my boss and alas, still unopened after four years.

              8. General Ginger*

                Agreed. Menstrual supplies =/= condoms. Yeah, sure, they’re personal, but there is nothing inappropriate about them.

            4. PW*

              I want to know why the co-worker was looking in her car windows in the first place. Especially since they were in the backseat which means the co-worker had to rally look for them. The busybody co-worker needs to mind her own business and I can’t believe the boss didn’t laugh her complaint out of his/her office.

              OP #1 – I hope this is resolved in your favor. What a terrible boss you have.

                1. Is pumpkin a vegetable?*

                  I’m in HR, and I don’t even get what the OP was being written up FOR!!!

              3. Triple Anon*

                Yeah, why didn’t the co-worker get in trouble for snooping? That seems worse than having a bag of hygeine products in your car.

              4. General Ginger*

                I’m wondering the same thing. I feel like if you’re the one snooping, whatever offensive thing you find is on you.

                1. General Ginger*

                  (that’s not to say menstrual supplies are offensive; I just think that pretty much goes for any instance of getting offended while snooping)

            4. Elemeno P.*

              My coworker and I are cracking up about the warning sign one because we work with warning signs.

            7. Dweali*

              I’ve got one similar to these in a bright neon pattern that says “Just a super secret way to carry tampons around” in different styles of writing….I love it :-)

              got mine from this site but it doesn’t look like they have this exact one anymore

              https://www.blueq.com/zipper-pouches/

              1. Stormfeather*

                Yeah, IF I were still having my monthly visits from Aunt Flo, and IF I had used tampons in the first place, I’d totally have been getting the “Vampire Tea Bags” one

                1. Stormfeather*

                  Er, just looked back on that and realized I should specify that “had used tampons” I meant in the sense of “if, at the time, I used tampons as my weapon of choice” not “if I carried around used tampons.”

            9. JeanB in NC*

              I love the one that says “oh bloody hell”. But I don’t have to worry about that anymore, THANK YOU MENOPAUSE!

              2. SusanIvanova*

                I’d want one that said #biologyfail; that was the shorthand my friends used back before menopause obsoleted it.

            10. Not a Morning Person*

              It would be so tempting to get some of the pad ones, fill them with note pads or post it pads and leave them out on your desk. Then every time you need to make a note, you need your “pads” stash!

            13. Batshua*

              I don’t super need one, but in solidarity, I might commission a waterproofed one that says “my endometrial lining is sloughing” in the dripping bloody font.

              1. Batshua*

                Sorry, I changed my mind.

                s/endometrial lining/endometrium

                I think that sounds cooler upon reflection.

          5. Specialk9*

            Did you read the linked Twitter suggestions? They’re thinking along your lines too. This whole thing is making me love people.

          6. Not a Blossom*

            It can’t be that hard to make tampon earrings and to string one on a necklace, right?

          7. Graff*

            I just spit my tea out at this —- YES THIS! So sorry you’re going through this OP, but you’re not going through it alone! We’re all here and mad on your behalf!

        2. namelesscommentator*

          I’d ask if they’d prefer I free bleed.

          But I can also be a blunt asshole when people are being idiots.

          1. LouiseM*

            LOL! Yeah, I can guarantee if I stopped bringing menstrual products to work my company would not be pleased with the results.

            1. KarenT*

              The OP should stage a free bleeding protest! (OK, probably not really, but seriously!)
              I’ve read some outrageous things on this site but this letter officially takes the cake!.

              OP your boss, your HR, and your co-worker are INSANE!

              1. Specialk9*

                Alison “I posted on Twitter about it because I was enraged”

                Why I love this site. The rest of you are so awesome too.

            1. Whoa*

              There was! Back in 2015. I was just thinking about her yesterday, actually. Her name was Kiran Gandhi and it was her very first marathon. Honestly I don’t blame her… Running with a pad/tampon in is pretty awful.

              2. the_scientist*

                Running a marathon while on my period sounds like my own personal hell, so she can do whatever she wants as far as I’m concerned.

              1. Elizabeth H.*

                I grew up living in a dorm at a women’s college as one of my parents was a resident director. We would go to the pool at the campus gym a lot and in the women’s locker room they had an article clipping about Uta Pippig on one of the bulletin boards in there and how some people were shocked but she won. (It was right around the time that that happened.) I read that article over and over and over again. It was so inspiring and empowering to be in that environment of women athletes and reading this example of a woman who was tough as nails and admired for it. I’m sitting at my desk at work looking back at the articles from that time and actually started crying thinking about how powerful these images and examples are that there is no limit to what women can do even in the face of societal constraints on their bodies.

          4. Michaela Westen*

            Or maybe she should stay home when she’s on her period, like when we were cave people.

        3. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Isn’t art made with a menstrual blood a thing?

          OR, LW should suggest a charity drive that collects menstrual products for a DV shelter. And get the Cereal OP from earlier in the week to come in and build a tower out of pads & tampons.

          1. Savannnah*

            I think it gets into shaky ground here with the coworker being a trans woman. I’d really steer clear of any of that as a reaction to her HR complaint.

            1. Detective Amy Santiago*

              Nope. Sorry. Being a trans woman does not give you the right to punish cis women (or trans men) for a natural biological function.

              1. Savannnah*

                I don’t agree with her making the HR complaint, but I also don’t agree with a transwoman having a tower of pads shoved in her face at work either.

                2. Just Employed Here*

                  A tower of pads for charity shouldn’t be any different from a tower of cereal for charity. I realize that in many cases it would be viewed differently, but it shouldn’t.

                  Wherever the pads are — in a private vehicle or in a charity collection box — they’re not there being shoved in anyone’s face (I mean, unless they literally are shoved in someone’s face … which I don’t think anyone is suggesting). Cis women don’t have periods *at* trans women.

                3. Savannnah*

                  I agree with your comment on the whole. I’m just trying to point out that the many suggestions in response to the complaint would in fact be cis woman targeting a transwoman with physical reminders of the fact that they aren’t woman enough and I feel that its unnecessary. I don’t at all agree with what the coworker did but I think we have the capacity to respond and be upset for the OP without the pitchforks.

                4. Myrin*

                  Ah, I see now what you were referring to! I scrolled back and forth before replying and kinda lost track of the threading, my apologies!

                5. Just Employed Here*

                  I dunno. When I use (or buy, or transport) sanitary products, I’m not targeting anyone with physical reminders of anything.

                  I just, you know, stop my own blood from going where it shouldn’t. It has nothing to do with my co-workers.

                  And a charity drive should be about those it’s benefiting, not about individual co-workers taking it personally.

                6. Savannnah*

                  Yes- outside of a direct response to this coworker, without this context, I agree with you.

                8. Jesca*

                  I think you are off base. Women’s shelters are notoriously lacking in pads and tampons. One of the reasons is because feel do feel embarrassed to donate them. It is actually a thing. Someone building a tower of tampons isn’t about shoving it in the face of anyone who wasn’t born biologically a woman, but more so showing awareness to the fact that women born biologically do bleed and need those products and it is nothing to be ashamed of. Lets not punish one group for the inferred sake of another, ok.

                10. Detective Amy Santiago*

                  @Savannah

                  Yes, I feel the same way. Menstruation is a natural biological function and the need for menstrual products is nothing to be ashamed of. It doesn’t matter if you’re male, female, cis, or trans, it’s a fact of life that you need to accept.

                11. Observer*

                  @Savannah you write many suggestions in response to the complaint would in fact be cis woman targeting a transwoman with physical reminders of the fact that they aren’t woman enough

                  Except that this is totally NOT TRUE. These reactions would be a reminder that you don’t get to tell women that the fact of menstruation is a deep dark secret!

                12. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

                  @Savannnah, I see what you mean. You aren’t taking the side of the complaining coworker. You’re suggesting that, in light of new information about the coworker being trans, jokes about flaunting menstrual products in retaliation land differently. You’re not blaming OP for doing something wrong or suggesting that her coworker was justified, you’re saying that certain responses to shitty behavior are also shitty. Whether or not people agree, your point makes perfect sense.

                13. RUKiddingMe*

                  That’s not what happened here. The coworker is attempting to silence the fact that the OP (a cis woman) even has periods.

              2. Circus peanuts*

                Yes, the trans part is a red herring and I wonder if HR didn’t want to look insensitive to trans problems (and we all know that there are many but this isn’t one of them, jmo) and that might be why a write up in now in someone’s permanent employee record.

                2. Anion*

                  Yep. So the feelings and *employment record* of the female OP are less important than the feelings of a transwoman who was peeping into her car.

            2. Anonymouse*

              Wait, where does it say the coworker was a trans woman? I’ve read over the letter and response twice and page searched “trans” and i couldn’t find any reference to whether the coworker was cis or trans.

              1. MJ (Aotearoa/New Zealand)*

                Alison clarified in a comment that the complaining coworker was a trans woman.

                1. Michaela Westen*

                  If a man had peeped into the car and seen the pads and done exactly the same thing, would that change this? IMO it’s even worse because there’s chauvinism (or more chauvinism, or culturally approved chauvinism)
                  Since this coworker used to be a man, maybe this chauvinist attitude is still with her?
                  I was imagining a miserable, uptight, beaten down biological woman, but this changes the story.

                2. Aeryn Sun*

                  Michaela, just a heads up, this coworker didn’t “used to be a man”- she was a woman, regardless of if she was out or not. You don’t need to go through any medical procedures or change your presentation to be a woman. I disagree with the coworker here (dysphoria is horrible but people shouldn’t be shamed for menstrual products) but let’s not misgender her.

              2. Penny Lane*

                I don’t see what the coworker being trans has anything to do with anything.

                Was the shampoo an insult to / offensive to bald coworkers?

                2. Just Who I Am*

                  And the car itself is an insult to those who got their licenses taken away for drunk driving!

                  OK, time for more coffee..

                4. Liz*

                  I once made a remark about my handbag strap getting tangled in my hair, and my boss, who is bald, chucked a sulk.

                  But he’s by no means an example of a reasonable human being.

            3. Specialk9*

              So you’re saying a trans woman went out of her way to PUNISH a cis woman *for being cis female*, and we’re supposed to side with the vindictive snooping trans woman? Just because we generally sympathize with transgender folks?

              We should be pro human rights for trans people, but that doesn’t mean we should enable them to bully cis people for being cis. Your argument is making my own head explode. It’s infantilizing, and I can’t imagine any of my trans friends agreeing. Their lives are hard enough without a faux bullying pass that will turn people even more against them.

              1. Penny Lane*

                Agree. Just because they are trans doesn’t make their opinions automatically a) valid or b) worthy of indulging. They’re people like everyone else and some of them are stupid or jerks like everyone else.

                1. Caitlin*

                  Case in point: Caitlyn Jenner. Her being an awful person has nothing to do with the fact that she’s transgender.

                2. Oranges*

                  @Caitlin. So totally true. I still feel like I’ll get painted with the same brush as the people who do the “I’m not racist but…” if I say how much I dislike her without specific examples. Which my brain can’t keep track of.

              2. Clare*

                I cant believe some people are trying to justify this because the coworker is trans. I mean, how the heck does this coworker use the work bathrooms if shes this offended by the mere glimpse of sanitary products?

              3. Savannnah*

                Nope. That’s not what I said at all. I’m not siding with the coworker- again, I’m agreeing that it was really not ok- I’m just not comfortable with the very specific nature of targeted response encouraged by some of the comments here.

                1. RoadsLady*

                  No. Maybe I’m awful, but a snarky gesture using hygeine supplies would in no way be a trans target.

                  Two different things here: if OP had used her supplies to taunt Coworker, that’s one thing. But any cute/clever/snarky pranks with pads have nothing to do with the transgender issue.

                3. Yorick*

                  “How so?”?????

                  The coworker being trans isn’t even something commenters knew when they suggested these things.

                  Also, the problem is the entire workplace. If you went to my HR and complained that I *gasp* own maxi pads, I strongly hope they would tell you to get over it, trans or not.

                4. Luna*

                  I agree that the LW should not take it upon herself to engage in any targeted response, not because the coworker doesn’t absolutely deserve it for what she did, but because it could get the LW into more trouble. Clearly HR is terrified to the point of ridiculousness by any claims of transphobia the coworker might make.

              4. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

                Agreed.

                OP is no more buying menstrual products at the trans coworker than a pregnant coworker is being pregnant at someone who can’t have children.

                1. Jesca*

                  Exactly. And thinking that this was some how some microaggression on the part of the OP against the trans woman sets back biological women’s rights even further than they are now. I mean come on.

                  Yes, me being born a woman is so aggressive. I mean do you not even see how that just feeds into sexism and also makes trans people look really out of touch with the issues biological women have to face in our society?

                2. Detective Amy Santiago*

                  @Jesca

                  Cis women *and* trans men. They are hurting their trans brothers with this nonsense too.

                3. Jesca*

                  @Detective Amy Santiago Absolutely! That was what I was trying to get across with my last statement, so I am glad you clarified.

                4. Anion*

                  Yes, what’s next? “Jane had a hairbrush in her car, to brush her long, thick, beautiful hair! My hair is thin and frizzy so I must keep it short, and I have always wished that I too had long thick hair. Therefore Jane is harassing me by needing a product I do not need. I demand she be written up for this egregious offense!”

                  “I saw a copy of a brochure about travel to Australia on John’s desk. I can’t afford to go to Australia! How dare John be able to take vacations I can’t? HARASSMENT!”

                  You don’t get to punish people for having what you don’t have/something other than what you have.

              5. Tuxedo Cat*

                I was thinking of my trans friends and colleagues.

                I get that menstruating can be a touchy subject for some transwomen, with how it’s so aligned with the experience of being female, but it’s not the OP’s fault she had basically a health/medical device in her car, in an area she wasn’t expecting people to be looking.

                1. Julia*

                  This. And where do you draw the line? My friend with PCOS who doesn’t menstruate – does anyone care about her feelings? This seems like the equivalent of miusing the word “triggered”; if I were to claim seeing your menstrual products “triggered” me because I used to have debilitating period pain, I’m sure people would call me out on that.

                2. General Ginger*

                  Menstruating is a super touchy subject for me as a trans man, too, but I cannot possibly rationalize making an issue out of menstrual supplies in a /coworker’s parked car/. That’s so out of the realm of reasonable I don’t have words.

              8. Anion*

                +1.

                Biological women have the right to be biological women without being punished for it, regardless of the feelings of others.

                1. Theo*

                  Hi Anion! You probably don’t know this, since a lot of cis people don’t, but referring to cis women as “biological women” is actually considered pretty offensive by a lot of trans people. It connotes pretty hard that trans women aren’t real women, and that chromosomes are The Most Important Indicator. I don’t want to get into trans 101 here, but I’m also a trans person, so please trust me — “cis woman” will do just fine, and reduce confusion!

                  (And yes, Jerk is not a protected class; this person is acting like a tool, and their gender is 100% irrelevant.)

                2. Jadelyn*

                  Can we please not use “biological” women? The term is cisgender, or cis for short. Trans women (two words, by the way, since I’ve seen a number of people using “transwomen” elsewhere in the thread) are women, they are biological beings, therefore they are biological women just as much as cis women are, and the emphasis on “biological” as the distinction between cis and trans women is by definition implying that trans women are “biologically male” – and I hope we can all see why that would be deeply Not Okay. Also, “biological women” is frequently a dogwhistle for trans-exclusionary radical feminism, which is deeply transmisogynistic.

                3. Specialk9*

                  Jadelyn, I know trans people who use transman and transwoman. I don’t think that’s a universal.

                4. Liz*

                  No, it’s okay to say biological women. There is NEVER anything wrong with using accurate descriptions for women, their biological functions, and misogyny. “Cis” is a term that is neither universally understood nor universally accepted.

              9. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

                Did I smoke something? Savannnah never said anyone should side with OP’s coworker. She said certain responses being suggested here (albeit in jest, by my read) would be inappropriate. She didn’t say “don’t push back against HR, because coworker is trans” or anything even remotely close to that, and in some comments she clearly stated that she thinks the coworker was in the wrong. Whether or not most people agree with her point, this thread reads like a pile-on based on a strawman.

            4. Banana Pants*

              No, it doesn’t. Being trans does not give someone the right to be a jerk about toiletries kept in a coworker’s CAR.

              1. RVA Cat*

                TBH the only way this whole clusterfudge makes sense is that OP#1 is trans co-worker’s BEC for whatever reason, and co-worker and HR are conspiring together like middle school mean girls. We’ve seen this play out with plenty of cisgender jerks on AAM and it’s really no different.

                Equality means if you are unreasonable, you get told to pound sand same as everybody else.

            5. Buffy Summers*

              I’m not seeing in the letter where there was a trans woman. I’ve read and re-read. Where are you seeing that? (Not being snarky – I genuinely want to know where there’s a trans woman)

            6. Lindsay Gee*

              But should cis women have to go out of their way to hide their sanitary products in any other situation? I’m going to the bathroom, slip a tampon/pad into my hand, pocket etc. should I have a responsibility to go out of my way to hide that product because i may run into the trans coworker in the bathroom? It’s a biological thing we have no control over, as other comments have said- cis women aren’t menstruating *at* trans women. it’s just something that happens biologically (for most). I think there’s enough shame thrown at menstruating people to hide their products (which is ridiculous), we shouldn’t feel an additional obligation to hide menstruation from trans women as well

            7. Not a Morning Person*

              I haven’t seen anything indicating the complaining party is trans. What did I miss? And even if so…what does that have to do with a regular, normal body function that most women need to handle for many years? Women don’t have periods AT other people.

              1. fposte*

                It’s noted in a followup from Alison that that was mentioned in a second email from the OP to her.

          2. Kyubey*

            There’re also people who make food from menstrual blood too… perhaps she could make red velvet cake or brownies with her own and offer them to her lovely colleague as an apology for daring to be a human being with normal biological functions. (This is a joke probably shouldn’t really do that without permission anyway)

        4. Jesca*

          Honestly, I am at a point where I am so sick and tired of this crap, I would go get a lawyer right now. A really really excellent lawyer. It wouldn’t even matter if I would win either, because if my employer feels so embarrassed about me having to use basic hygiene products, think how embarrassing it would be form them to be drug through a court case about their reaction to their embarrassment. I would laugh the whole way through.

          1. Troutwaxer*

            This. Because if a lawyer sends them a letter, the whole thing will escalate straight to the employer’s legal department, and a ton of hurt will crash back down on the HR dept.

          2. essEss*

            This! The OP was written up for having a perfectly legal product in her personal car. A legal product, I might add, that has no reason for being vilified since it is simply a variation of a compression bandage. Either they are being written up for having a product used by women (which is definitely hitting the harassment laws about disciplinary actions for being female) or they are being written up for having personal hygiene products in their own personal vehicle so anyone with basic band-aids in their office desks must also get written up.

          3. Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way!*

            Especially when it’s framed as harrassment and the attempt to harm future job/career opportunities because of the write up. However IANAL, but I’m sure there is a creative way to frame this IF the company decides to dig in and not remove the write-up and issue an apology. The OP could possibly have a suit.

        5. Arya Snark*

          Same – and as a peri-menpausal woman with dysmenorrhea/probable endometriosis, I would have A LOT to display.

    3. Circus peanuts*

      I am personally trying to stop gossiping in my life but this might be a good time to tell your coworkers what happened. The comment section here is exploding in outrage and I think your colleagues will have a similar reaction. You can cover your rear by saying that you didn’t want anyone else getting in trouble for breaking this rule (and please check your employee handbook to see if this rule is in there) and you wanted to give people the heads up.

      Also, is anyone else dreaming of having multiple employees getting pads and placing them on their dashboards as a show of solidarity? And if your company has a charity drive for those less fortunate than you, I heard that feminine products are desperately needed. Bring in enough to make a tower on the first day ;)

      1. Savannnah*

        Seeing as how the coworker in question is a trans woman, I don’t think we should be encouraging the OP to gossip or looking for solidarity about this issue.

            1. Specialk9*

              Savannah, you’re not helping the trans cause by siding with a vindictive bully just because she’s trans. In fact you’re actively hurting it.

              1. Savannnah*

                Sing it with me: *I’m not siding with her.* We get to do both: be upset and help the OP and be concerned with the nature of the suggestions for responses. We have that ability.

                1. Tricia*

                  But you are saying that the situation should be treated differently because the coworker is trans by not doing something (getting support from coworkers) that she would otherwise want to do.

                  As described she’s been the victim of a ludicrous complaint and her coworkers, especially the women, are entitled to know that not only do they have a coworker who is going to be snooping around their cars and God knows where else looking for things to be offended about but that also management is going to back that person up when they complain.

                2. Savannnah*

                  I think the OP should do everything in her power to rectify the situation- she was wronged for sure. I think encouraging everyone else to put pads in their cars or show up with very visible tampons at work as some collective show of solidarity is a…response that’s unnecessary- no matter how good it feels to suggest.

                3. Guacamole Bob*

                  If I’m reading your comments right, Savannah, I see where you’re coming from. The (mostly joking) suggestions to make a giant tower of sanitary products for donation like the cereal letter from earlier this week, fill the car with them, gossip about it, wear them as jewelry, etc., have the potential to make OP look… insensitive in her response?

                  The complaint itself is so over-the-top ridiculous that it’s obvious that the complainer has some sort of hang-up. If the complainer were a man, or even another cis woman, it might come across as funny to tweak them about that hang-up through showy public displays, which basically amount to public ridicule. But since the complainer is a trans woman (a group that has historically endured insults related to menstruation and whether they’re “real women” without a period) that sort of response comes across as much more mean-spirited and potentially really hurtful. Good comedy punches upwards in the power structure, not down.

                  This deserves firm push-back with HR, but respectful and professional is the way to go here.

                4. Jesca*

                  Siding with the trans coworker here for her excuse is like siding with a man who says feminine hygiene products because the woman is purposely being disgusting AT HIM. Both of these share to commonality that women wear pads and maxis AT other people as opposed to just, ya know, needing them! You cannot side with someone who is upset that some women are born biologically and have functions that come with being biologically a woman. That would be like a woman who had to have her uterus removed complaining because other women around her have pads in their car. I think everyone is just trying to point out that coming up with an excuse to be angry at other people just because you do face hardships in other ways is never OK. The woman who turned this woman in is actually behaving extremely aggressive to biologically born women.

                5. Slartibartfast*

                  In response to your assertion that putting feminine hygiene products in view as protest, let’s give it the gender test.
                  Would I respond the same if it was a male co-worker? Yes. Cis female? Yes. Gay male? Yes. Lesbian? Yes. Agendered co-worker? Also yes.
                  Race? Yep, wouldn’t make any difference if the co-worker was white, black, Hispanic, Asian, or purple with pink polka dots. My reaction would be the same.
                  Religion? Nope, that makes no difference either. And a LOT of religions consider menstruation “dirty”. If anything, might push back harder if that was the case.
                  Learning the offended party is transgender female is irrelevant. She’s still got no basis for complaining about a NORMAL product incidentally visible in a private vehicle.

                7. Savannnah*

                  Slartibartfast- I agree with you that the coworker has no basis for her complaint at all.

                8. LilyP*

                  Sorry you’re getting piled on here Savannah, I think you’re making a valid point. There are actual material differences between a cis dude who’s uncomfortable because ew cooties and a trans woman who may have complicated & personal feelings about menstruation. Like, obviously those feelings are hers to manage in a way that doesn’t impact her co-workers and she was out of line here, but I also think we can and should take that context into account in any responses we’re suggesting. I think some of the sort-of-joking suggestions like covering your car in pads or whatever ring as funny to me when the assumption is you’re “punching up” at a clueless cis dude but feel uncomfortable if you’re doing them in response to a trans woman. There’s just a lot more baggage in that situation.

                9. LBK*

                  Yeah, I think LilyP explained it well – it does make a difference here that it’s a trans woman. The complaint is patently ridiculous, for sure, and that this woman might have complicated feelings about menstruation by no means justifies getting the OP in trouble. But I agree that I’m not especially comfortable even with jokes about what would basically amount to rubbing it in her face that she doesn’t menstruate, something I’m sure she already has to contend plenty among the other ways people probably try to discount her as not a “real” woman.

                  The fact that you would do the same thing if it were a man or a cis woman doesn’t matter because those groups of people don’t go through the same experiences and wouldn’t be coming from the same place with their discomfort about menstruation. We often do and should give minorities special treatment in certain ways by recognizing where their experience is going to be different than other people’s and adjusting our behavior accordingly.

                10. patchinko*

                  i hear you Savannah, even if some other people don’t seem to. i think LilyP summarized things perfectly and anyone who thinks Savannah is siding with the complainer should read that comment.

                11. Just Employed Here*

                  I don’t think Savannnah is siding with the complaining co-worker at all. I think she’s making case for being compassionate.

                  I do, however, think that the complaint as described by the LW is soooo far beyond reasonable, that the complainer has effectively cried “wolf” (or in this case “transphobic harassment” or “yuck, biological functions”, or whatever the actual complaint was) and has lost any credibility she may have had if the situation had been more debatable (like if there had been an actual tower of sanitary products coupled with actual previous transphobia).

                  Of course there’s still no need to actively hurt the feelings of the complainer, but it seems she’s so good at finding something to get hurt by that it doesn’t really matter how considerate her colleagues are trying to be.

                  So I wouldn’t bother tiptoeing around her either. I would certainly tell all my colleagues what happened (they deserve to know HR and the manager are bonkers) and would fight to clear my record.

                12. Ex-Humanities student*

                  I get what you are saying, Savannah, and this is compassionate, but we also have no idea if the woman who complained did it because she is squeamish or a prude (as are a loooot of people about menstruation) or because it was a much more personal issue.
                  The OP might have some idea here, depending on the context.

                  Another thing is that she didn’t ask the OP directly if she would be okay to not show them, or even make a comment basically asking to keep them out of her sight (which would not be okay either, but it could at least be dealt with more directly). She WENT TO HR to get OP to be written up. That’s a very aggressive move, which impacts the OP in a professional life and I thing it really mitigates the compassion we might want to feel against any hypothetical feeling this woman has against menstrual products.

                13. Piny1*

                  Look, Jesca, remember the LW who had a coworker flip out on her for using the word furbaby, and come to find out it was a touchy subject because she’d had a miscarriage or some similarly painful thing? Say the unhinged coworker had escalated that to HR. Would it be fair to push back against a ridiculous (and effectively sexist) punishment? Hell yes! But would it be okay for the LW to, say, cover her cubicle with cat photos in pastel baby shower themed frames, or buy a “PROUD CAT MOM” coffee mug just so she could flash it in front of her grieving coworker? No, fuck no. That would be really mean-spirited and unfair. And it would be deeply insensitive to the real and reasonable pain that is clearly a relevant factor in all this. The LW’s coworker did an extremely assy thing, but responding with an aggressive reminder that SOME women DO menstruate would inevitably create the same implicit shaming and harassing pressure to hide biological realities that you’re so het up about when it occurs in a context you personally relate to.

                  And for the record, no, nobody gets harassed for being cis. Women are harassed for being women, both cis and trans. And we still live in a world where trans women’s reproductive and sexual health is categorically neglected by care networks, where trans women must submit to irreversible sterilization in order to get usable identity cards, where until recently their trans status meant that in at least a few states in this country their rapists could not be convicted of rape, and where progressive people like yourself feel totally comfortable casually using language that implies that their bodies are artificial and contrary to nature, not “biological.” That context shouldn’t be handwaved away here, and acknowledging it doesn’t sabotage feminism overall.

                14. LBK*

                  That would be really mean-spirited and unfair.

                  Yeah, I think this sums it up – the fact that she can’t menstruate would make responding with a grand showing of menstrual products not an act of defiance about something you shouldn’t have to be ashamed about, but rather a cruel act of doubling down on something that’s understandably sensitive to her.

                  If a coworker snapped and started screaming at you for talking about your pregnancy/baby and it turned out it’s because they were dealing with fertility problems, that wouldn’t excuse their behavior. But if you responded by posting 100 pics of your baby all over your cube and increasing how much you talked about it, you’d still be an asshole, too.

                15. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  Yeah, I get that — I was thinking of the joke responses as targeting HR/the company for taking such a misogynistic stance, but if they’re seen as targeting the trans coworker, it does become punching down rather than punching up, and that’s not okay. My apologies for not more clearly delineating that.

                16. Guacamole Bob*

                  @Piny1, thank you! I’d been trying to think of an analogy here, and yours is perfect.

                17. sfigato*

                  Total aside, but the punching up/punching down thing bugs me. I mean, I get it, and I understand how shoving tampons in the face of a guy is different than shoving tampons in the face of a transwoman, but it often boils down to, “it’s totally fine to be a jerk to this person because I perceive them to be in a position of power/privilege” which is morally a little tricky to me, in that being a jerk to someone is rarely the best choice, and people you perceive to be in positions of power or privilige are often dealing with their own ish. Maybe the issue isn’t so much if you are punching up or down, but the fact that you are punching.

                  I just see that phrase used a lot in lefty circles as a way to justify being a frigging jerk. I mean, op should push back and push back hard, but it’s hard for me to see how being vindictive and crappy about this would be the right decision, no matter the gender of the complainer.

                18. Gazebo Slayer*

                  @Piny1 and LBK: these analogies are great, thanks!

                  @sfigato: Punching down is definitely worse than punching up, but I’ve been deeply uncomfortable with the idea that punching up is *always* OK since seeing it used elseweb to justify stalking, harassment, and literal graphic death threats.

        2. Circus peanuts*

          That may be why HR sided with the nosy one, fear of looking like they are not sensitive to trans issues. But this isn’t a trans issue. It is someone projecting their squeamishness into a write up in an employees record for having a normal item that was in a bag in a car in the parking lot.

          1. Savannnah*

            I’m not sure it’s sqimishness- we don’t know why the coworker reported it. I agree the OP should totally be able to have pads/tampons in her car/desk/purse wherever without HR compliants. But I’m alarmed at the suggested response of the comments given the new information.

            1. Penny Lane*

              Why? Is the world supposed to pretend that cis women don’t have periods just to avoid upsetting trans women with a reminder that they don’t?

              The person who reported the OP for products in her own car was in the wrong. Whether that person was male, female, cis, trans, white, black, or purple.

              1. EvanMax*

                The coworker being trans doesn’t change how wrong they were to complain.

                But it does change the appropriateness of responding by wearing diva cup earrings, or creating a tower of tampons in your cubical, or various other responses suggested.

                Going on the offensive with menstrual products against a trans woman could be hurtful in ways that do nothing to resolve the situation, and only escalate it into a legitimate complaint for the coworker. The fact that “She started it” doesn’t justify what would otherwise be seen as a horribly offensive act (the targeting of a trans woman with menstrual products being the offensive part, not the menstrual products themselves.)

                3. Amber T*

                  @Purple Jello I think it’s an overcorrection on their part here. From the coworker’s perspective, she’s being targeted because she’s a transwoman. In general, that would be a pretty serious offense. But instead of taking the time to really assess the situation, figure out if this coworker is being targeted because she’s a transwoman, and then attempt to explain to her that no, we do not believe this is an attack on you (which LEGAL BATTLE?!?!), they reprimanded OP, which was probably “easier.”

                  For the record, I don’t think this was right by any means and OP should absolutely, 100% follow Alison’s advice and push back (nor do I think she was targeting or attacking this coworker, less anyone take my comments out of context).

                4. Luna*

                  The feelings of the coworker are really irrelevant, she is clearly an over the top ridiculous person. However, the LW should NOT do any of these jokey responses and start putting menstrual products everywhere- not to spare the coworker’s feelings but because it is bad advice for the LW and would do nothing to help her. The LW should focus on pushing back to HR and the manager and get them to remove any record of the reprimand.

                5. Jules the Third*

                  Punch up, not down.

                  Push back with HR and the manager, because as Countess Bouchie says, OP is not having a period AT her co-worker and OP needs to be able to handle her natural biological function.

                  Don’t escalate with the ‘in your face’ retaliation jokes posted here. Context does actually matter. A cis-male or cis-female coworker would be punching up or at worst sideways; a transgender coworker is punching down.

                  I do think OP has the right to ask that HR / mgr handle any future complaints of this type by holding firm on the rights of people to handle their natural biological needs, even when they make coworkers uncomfortable, instead of trying to make it OP’s problem.

                7. essEss*

                  This would be identical to a person being written up for having pictures of her children in her car when one of her coworkers is infertile and the coworker filed a complaint. Infertile people endure comments and taunts about their fertility but they do not have a right to police what a coworker stores in their own car as long as the item is legal and safe.

                8. Elara*

                  Why is everyone saying punch up not down when this is a biological male/amab with institutional support behind her ludicrous complaint, against a woman for the sin of menstruating? It’s not punching down when it’s a male perpetuating stigma against female biology, where lacks of access to menstrual products keeps girls out of school and menarche often justifies child brides? The trans coworker’s womanhood is valid, but sex is a bigger access of oppression than gender identity. This is sexism. Sex discrimination is illegal. Keep that in mind.

              2. Anion*

                Yes, the world is supposed to pretend that. That’s why performances of The Vagina Monologues are being/have been canceled in some places, because how dare women get together to discuss, or watch performance pieces about, common issues related to being women.

                1. Not willing to be attacked*

                  Yes most trans women old enough to be in the workforce today grew up with male privilege whether they wanted it or not. The erasure of cis lesbians is a real issue in the queer community.

              4. mb13*

                And what if another female employee got pregnant? Is the trans coworker going to be triggered everyday because of it? Is it reasonable for HR to disciplinary punish the hypothetical pregnant employment for being a living reminder that the trans coworker isn’t a biological woman?

                This coworker is being ridiculous and HR are being ridiculous for thinking that just because an employe is trans they have to bend to their every whim or they are considered transphobic.

                1. General Ginger*

                  Please don’t use the term “biological women”. It implies that trans women aren’t really women, but “biological men”, and is transphobic. Cisgender is the preferred term to mean non-transgender folks.

            2. Tricia*

              I am finding it difficult to think of any reason for the complaint that doesn’t paint the complaining person in a very poor light.

              2. Lynca*

                Possibly the co-worker is experiencing harassment (not from the OP) or they have come from a very toxic workplace, thus have a skewed perspective.

                Both those would be reasons why this may have happened but don’t put the co-worker in a terrible light. I’d be sympathetic to that situation. And ultimately it was HR and the OP’s boss that made the call for a reprimand- not the co-worker.

                1. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

                  That’s what I was thinking… If there has been a pattern of harassment at this workplace OR if the complainer has been harassed at previous workplaces, I can see her having an “alarm sensor” that has skewed too sensitive. This is still not a reasonable thing to complain about and it’s on the complainer to recalibrate that/manage their personal feelings, but I do think its a very different situation (and warrants a different response) than if the complaint came from an “ew, menstrating is gross and shameful. Hide all evidence of it” place.

                  I’m also wondering (and this is total speculation, but it’s the only thing that makes the HR response make sense) if the complainer might have painted a somewhat inaccurate picture when speaking to HR. Maybe they said something along the lines of “OP had menstrual products all over her car, clearly displayed to make me feel uncomfortable”. Obviously HR should have investigated further (if this were the case) before moving straight to a write up.

                  Again, though, if the complainer has been experiencing harassment at this workplace, and HR has been involved – well, I can see maybe everyone being a bit too quick to complain/issue write ups.

                  Still doesn’t make it ok, and the write up should NOT remain. It does make situation seem a little less absurd.

                2. Ex-Humanities student*

                  You are really reaching, here. There is no evidence at all of harassment. And I tend to think that if the woman has no issue complaining about sanitary prodcust to HR, she would have done it about real harassment. And this HR would have done someething about it, considering how fast they are to write up people.

                3. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

                  @Ex-Humanities student I don’t think it’s a reach at all. I live in a incredibly liberal/progressive East coast metro area and it’s still extremely common for trans women to experience all sorts of harassment – I’ve witnessed it and I’ve heard it about it first hand from trans friends/acquaintances

                  I think it’s very possible (maybe even likely) that the complainer has experienced or witnessed harassment – if not from this workplace than from another or in their personal life.

                  I’m just saying I think it’s a very feasible context that paints the complainer in a more sympathetic (though still not AT ALL acceptable or “morally correct” light). We can be sympathetic to the context the complaint was made within while still agreeing that the complaint was unreasonable AND that HR mishandled the issue.

                4. Ex-Humanities student*

                  Oh, well, yeah, I think it is pretty much a given that this woman has experienced harassment, as a woman and as a trans woman.

                  My comment that you were reaching refered to this workplace specifically, and that we might imagine that she reacted disproportionately to something minor or innocuous after being targeted repeateadly, in a “straw that broke the camel’s back” kind of way. But that is being overly generous and based on nothing in the letter. And this person doesn’t particularly inspire sympathy, being so aggressively litigious, nosy and sexist.

                5. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

                  I do agree that there’s no evidence of harassment in this particular workplace, which is why I noted that it’s pure speculation.

                  I think I’m kind of looking at it from the opposite direction you are… Perhaps HR was so quick to write up the OP because there were other incidents of harassment (not involving the OP and perhaps even unknown to the OP). No evidence of it the letter – so it’s just a theory – just one that makes a lot of sense to me.

                6. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

                  Actually… let me re-word this. It’s the only explanation that I can come up with up that makes HR’s response make any sort of sense (again, not ok, but just like I understand what the thought process was) and it’s a reasonable theory given how likely transwomen are to experience harassment.

                7. Happy Temp*

                  Respectfully, how would the contents of someone’s car be considered part of a pattern of harrassment? Why would someone being harrassed make a point of looking into someone else’s car? I guess if one is feeling vulnerable, one is in constant vigilance mode. (I’m also now curious how the coworker knew it was the OP’s car in particular, but that’s probably irrelevant.) Still, I cannot wrap my mind around this whole situation.
                  I’m curious if anyone here knows if any law about “reasonable expecation of privacy” extends to the contents of a car in an employer-owned parking lot..? Hmmm.

            3. Observer*

              It doesn’t really matter why the coworker complained. When you go looking into someone’s car and complain about what you find there, having that thrown in your face is a reasonable reaction. Trying to protect someone because they may have “complicated feelings” is not compassionate at ALL.

              This is especially egregious because while the suggestions about Towers of tampons etc. are almost certainly a joke, letting people know what happened should NOT be a joke. And, it’s not something the complainer should be protected from, trans or not. This person is a vicious snoop and people have a right to know that.

              2. tangerineRose*

                At least the co-workers should know that this is currently considered an offense that will be written up. Is that gossiping? I’d want to know.

                Also, seriously!???? What is wrong with the world when something like this gets a write up?

        3. Lux*

          I don’t think it matters that they’re trans- they’re still really in the wrong for complaining about it & the other co-workers should show solidarity with the OP.

          2. Tricia*

            Whether they are trans or not is completely irrelevant. It was a ludicrous complaint that should have been dismissed immediately, possibly with a warning to the complaining transwoman not to spy in other people’s cars.

            That the letter writer actually had to even answer this complaint let alone was written up for it is bordering on insanity. She’s fully entitled to seek solidarity among her fellow workers and if they think less of the transwoman because of it then I am afraid she fully deserves that.

            1. AvonLady Barksdale*

              Yup. The response to the co-worker should have been, “So? What people buy and keep in their cars is their own business.” Trans shouldn’t even come into this equation. Would the complaining coworker have done the same for a man who stopped off at a drugstore and bought pads or tampons for his wife or partner? Yes or no, answer is the same. Some days, people infuriate me.

              I take that back. MOST days.

              1. Detective Amy Santiago*

                This is a great comment. Someone else mentioned that their male boss occasionally buys products for his three teenage daughters. They are a biological need for roughly 50% of the population and there is nothing wrong with anyone buying them. Full stop.

                2. many bells down*

                  When I read the letter to my husband last night, he pointed out that he might very well have had pads in HIS car, if it was his turn to do the grocery shopping.

                1. nep*

                  (Actually I can’t really believe we’re all discussing this. I think it’s a hoax and someone’s having a good chuckle. Because REALLY?!)

            2. PW*

              Agree with this wholeheartedly.

              I didn’t realize the co-worker was trans when I wrote my first comment (hadn’t seen Alison’s update) but that doesn’t change my thoughts on the matter. The co-worker had to have been actively looking through the windows of the OP’s car to see the maxi pads. That’s snooping and is wrong. It’s not like the OP is waving the maxi pads in the co-worker’s face and taunting them.

            3. Elizabeth H.*

              Right I wish we didn’t know the gender of the coworker at all because it’s COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. Is the idea that the person who complained is triggered by the sight of menstrual products? Does she ever go to a grocery store, a bathroom with a tampon dispenser, an airplane bathroom, a drugstore, or look at Instagram or facebook? (As a woman in the 18-40 age range I get about a million menstrual product ads on instagram and facebook on a daily basis!) I feel like being triggered by the sight of menstrual products is similar to someone who has a debilitating phobia of toothbrushes or some other generic, commonly found item. She can go out of her way to do all her shopping online so she never has to go to the drugstore or grocery store and see them by mistake, avoid donating blood, and avoid working in any kind of medical setting. But it wouldn’t be reasonable for her to demand that her coworkers refrain from ever displaying a bandaid on their skin in a visible location, or not display them in their cars, right? Nobody could expect that. It reminds me of the letter where to accommodate a coworker’s OCD, employees were asked to wear only symmetrical jewelry (needing to wear a ring on the other hand if you wore a wedding ring or similar), it is beyond absurd.

              2. Piny1*

                Dysphora is real and something some trans people do struggle with and this comment is insensitive and transphobic.

                1. Lara*

                  Dysphoria is absolutely real. But this comment is not transphobic. The commenter is talking about reasonable accommodations. If a person is experiencing dysphoria or mental illness they need to manage it, rather than push the impact onto their coworkers.

                2. Elara*

                  Asking cis women, nonbinary afabs, and trans men to hide the truth about their bodies to make biological males comfortable is sexism. That is an unreasonable accommodation to request. Preferred pronouns? Fair. Preferred name? Fair. Access to women’s facilities? Fair. Hide the truth about menstruation from people without a uterus, who grew up perceived as not having one, someone excused from all the sexism involved in female healthcare, luxury taxes on menstrual products, and the overall stigma of being a “””bleeder””” is unreasonable. Making the excuse they feel bad they don’t have periods is not equivalent to the people with periods dealing with what comes with that. Dysphoria should be managed by a psychologist, not every biological female in the world.

                3. General Ginger*

                  @Elara, please don’t call trans women “biological males”. Trans women are women.

                4. Elara*

                  Trans women are trans because they’re biologically male. If you want to understand dysphoria and transition, please learn the difference between sex and gender.

              4. Elizabeth H.*

                I realized I switched from toothbrush metaphor to bandaid metaphor midstream. Oops. Yes, my point is that I don’t think “don’t have your shopping that includes maxi pads visible in your workplace parking lot” is a reasonable accommodation.

                I would be potentially sympathetic to the coworker’s feelings (in general) if it had been explained as a phobia or a mental health problem, but it wouldn’t change the fact of the sheer outrageousness and absurdity of HR writing up the LW. Honestly, even if the coworker had a phobia or trauma associated with these products and the entire staff had been asked by HR not to display them publicly on the company’s grounds, I still find being written up over it unreasonable because it is such an unusual accommodation. As it is, we’re left with the assumption that the coworker was offended that menstrual products were visible in someone’s car. If we didn’t know the coworker’s gender, we would assume that coworker complained because menstrual products are shameful and vulgar to display (as has happened in previous letters) and that management shared this opinion, rather than that the objection was based on gendered products like menstrual pads being offensive to trans people.

                We actually still DON’T KNOW that this is the case (unless the letter writer has supplied more information in the comments and I missed it). The comments on this post are full of examples in which a woman expressed the notion that menstrual products/references to menstruation are inappropriate and should be hidden at all times, and full of examples in which a man expressed the notion that menstrual products are inappropriate and should be hidden at all times, so I think it’s completely plausible that a cis person or a trans person, of any gender, could also have this opinion.

          3. Jules the Third*

            The fact that the coworker is trans doesn’t matter to OP’s response to HR / manager.

            It does make a difference in any non-official or social response OP makes. All the semi-serious suggestions about telling coworkers, and jokes about tampon earrings and iPads assumed the jokes would be punching up at a cis-male or cis-female. Now that we know it would be punching down, OP should limit her reaction to just the official pushback.

            2. Anion*

              I don’t see it as “punching down,” at all. Not when the OP’s workplace has made it clear that they consider the co-worker, and the co-worker’s feelings, to be so much more important than the OP or her feelings (or her employment history or finances, since that write-up could potentially affect raises and/or promotions in future). It’s not “punching down” when it’s aimed at someone who is held above you.

              1. Lara*

                Punching down relates to systemic oppression and social capital, not individual incidents. However – given other comments you have made on this post, I suspect you just hate trans people.

                1. Anion*

                  I don’t hate anyone, thanks, and whatever happens outside the workplace doesn’t change the fact that in the OP’s workplace–as well as here, it seems–her feelings and career are less important than the feelings of an entitled snoop who has fits over the OP having perfectly normal items in her personal car. Women are also “systemically oppressed,” are they not? And that oppression often stems specifically from menstruation and the functions carried out by the bodies of biological females, which the co-worker in this case is happily propagating in order to punish a woman for being female in public? So who is “punching down”–the woman minding her own business and not contributing to any sort of oppression, or the person using that systemic oppression to punish a biological female for being biologically female?

                  As for the rest, I will not stoop to your level and tell you what my suspicions of you are, because unlike many here, I am not in the habit of being personally insulting to other commenters. But I will say that you know nothing about me. Keep your conjecture and personal comments about me to yourself.

                2. Lara*

                  Anion; i will not, because in another comment you described trans women as ‘pretending’ and in this comment you are pretending to be commenting in good faith when you have already demonstrated blatant transphobia.

            3. Not willing to be attacked*

              I don’t see how a cis female is punching up. Cis females have always been discriminated against and that discrimination starts before birth in these days of ultrasounds. Trans women by definition were erroneously labeled as male. They were afforded the privelege of being male whether or not they wanted it.

        4. Mr. Cholmondley-Warner*

          Why not? What does being trans have to do with it? This is simply one idiot who was somehow offended by something completely normal.
          Some people just suck.

        5. Nea*

          I think people are being distracted by “pads” and “trans” and missing the actual point here. This is the perfect opportunity for all the employees – including the original complainer – to gather in solidarity around a rule that personal items of ANY kind in a personal vehicle are off-limits for comment, much less complaint.

          And I say this as someone who once snooped around a coworker’s car because I was thinking of getting the same model… and saw leopard-print fur-lined handcuffs looped over the gearshift. None. Of. My. Business.

          1. Eplawyer*

            Exactly. Its in a PRIVATE vehicle. Its legal to have. If youn are offended dont look in other peoples cars.

            I have to wpnder if the company would have done the same thing if it were a package of condoms. As noted the trans thing is a red herring. This is someone looking for something to be offended about and the company went along woth it because feminone prodicts are icky.

            1. Julia*

              But then, what if OP had had the pads in her desk or taking them into the bathroom? I mean, of course cars should be private, but isn’t the actual issue that OP got penalized for visibly having items she needs due to her sex and biological needs, which is completely bizarre.

            2. Adlib*

              “This is someone looking for something to be offended about”

              Yes, exactly. This is just so out there in searching for offense that makes me wonder if this person has something personal against OP. My brain just can’t compute a reasonable explanation for this otherwise. I mean, it was a package in a bag in the backseat! For the love.

              1. nep*

                Exactly. Jeeeeeeeez we’ve got to have trigger warnings for sanitary napkins in our shopping bags in our car?! Seriously I want this to be a hoax — it’s just beyond…beyond…

          2. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

            I can’t agree with the rule stated so broadly. If I saw an AR-15 clearly visible on the back seat of my co-worker’s car as I walk past my co-worker’s car, I would probably inform HR that the weapon is there and conspicuous (and I’d hope the co-worker merely forgot to lock it in the trunk of the car).

            Can’t imagine any potential safety threats from personal hygiene items or condoms or fuzzy handcuffs, though.

            1. Aitch Arr*

              Having one’s AR-15 in their car would probably be a violation of some employer policy. Having condoms or fuzzy handcuffs wouldn’t be.

              1. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

                “Would probably” does not equal “actually is.” I just checked my employee handbook, and while firearms are prohibited from the office building, the handbook does not discuss firearms in employee parking. Where I live, a person can legally transport their gun on the dashboard or backseat of their car if they choose to do so.

            2. Nea*

              Apples and oranges. Having an unsecured weapon visible in a vehicle is two kinds of illegal in my state (unsecured and not in trunk) – making that a police matter, not an HR one, although I’d probably tell HR I was calling the police.

              1. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

                “Apples and oranges” is my point; co-workers should ignore a colleague’s personal items in the colleague’s car that are visible through the car’s windows, unless the personal item is something that indicates the colleague poses a danger to the workplace. Empty vodka bottles might mean the colleague is driving (to work) drunk. Or maybe the colleague is sober and forgot to put the bottles in the recycling bin.

                In my state, it’s legal to transport an unloaded gun/rifle in a car. Of course, I wouldn’t know whether it’s unloaded by seeing it through the car window. I would rather contact HR than call the police for something that “seems off” but might have an innocent explanation.

            3. RVA Cat*

              This. I can see there being issues if someone’s car has a bong clearly visible, or has a Confederate flag decal across the back window (note: my workplace is majority PoC).

        7. Marvel*

          As a trans person: please stop.

          You’re putting us on a pedestal here. YOUR comments are the only ones that are making me uncomfortable.

            1. Lag Maggie*

              This might be too late for you to see, but I’m a trans woman and I’ve appreciated the arguments you’ve been trying to make, Savannah.

              1. Marvel*

                Thank you for adding your perspective–my comment came off very “AND I REPRESENT ALL TRANS PEOPLE” which wasn’t my intent.

        8. Yorick*

          The fact that the coworker is trans is absolutely irrelevant to what OP should do about it.

        9. Observer*

          Why?

          You keep on suggesting that somehow that fact that the complainer is trans should act as some sort of shield.

          The OP doesn’t need to get into trans or not. But there is actually very good reason for people to know that this person is a snoop. And the fact that she’s trans has no bearing on that reality.

        11. mb13*

          So… stupidity knows no differences between genders.
          “Hey ladies I wanted warn you about leaving pads around, Lysa Arryn (thats seems like an appropriate name for the coworker) saw my pads in my car and went to HR and I got written up for it. I dont want anyone else to get in trouble” sounds perfectly acceptable.

        12. RUKiddingMe*

          OP should absolutely encourage solidarity. Who will be the next target of this anti-cis woman bullying?

        13. JamieS*

          You specify we shouldn’t encourage OP to look for solidarity because the coworker is trans. This tells me you’d find that an acceptable course of action if the coworker wasn’t trans. Is this true? If so, why do you think it’s acceptable behavior to treat a trans person differently than you would a cis person?

      2. LT*

        There’s a post going around on social media about a boy in school who’s carrying around feminine hygiene products as a sign of solidarity because the school was forcing everyone to carry around clear backpacks after the Parkland incident.

    4. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      Seriously. I know this is not evolved of me to say, but when I read the first letter, my brain went: “FUCK THAT MISOGYNISTIC NOISE.”

      And if you’re generous, pick up some Tampax pearls for your pearl-clutching busybody of a coworker.

    5. Rose*

      Agreed. And this is when you bring out those three magic words: hostile work environment. This is discrimination against you as a woman. You’re a member of a legally protected group. And this is really really really not okay.

      1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

        This really isn’t a hostile work environment situation, though. It’s egregious and wrong, but it likely doesn’t meet the (very high) threshold in the legal sense.

        OP should start with Alison’s script, and if they don’t back down, then it makes sense to escalate by saying something like, “You do realize that your reprimand disproportionately punishes ciswomen for a normal and common medical condition that only affects women, right?” And then escalate accordingly. But starting with “hostile work environment” as an opening salvo is less likely to get OP results and more likely to encourage retrenchment.

        1. Specialk9*

          Really? It seems like one of those perfect ‘letters from a lawyer on letterhead’ situations. This is classic gender discrimination.

          1. Runner*

            Or it’s workplace harassment. The trans woman, HR, and the boss seem to believe OP is harassing a trans coworker.

            1. Observer*

              Seriously? If HR believe that the coworker is being harassed, they obviously need to deal with it. But, dealing with by punishing her for HAVING PADS IN HER CAR is absolutely and completely NOT dealing with harassment. And, in fact, they’ve just insured that IF there is actual harassment, they are going to have a much harder time dealing with it because their credibility has just flown out the window.

            3. Luna*

              Which is why the LW needs to push back and get this reprimand off her record. Having an official complaint added to her employee file that has to do with claims of harassment against a coworker in a protected class is a BIG DEAL.

            4. Luna*

              Which is why the LW needs to push back and get that reprimand removed. Having an official complaint in her employee file that claims she harassed a coworker in a protected class is a pretty big deal.

            5. A.N. O'Nyme*

              Which might make sense if OP had the pads out on her desk in full view, knowing the coworker would pass by often and see them (and, of course, has a track record of being transphobic). But for having them in her car? Most people don’t assume other people will look at the contents of their car.

            6. Jessie the First (or second)*

              I agree – NOT that harassment is actually happening, but that it makes sense that HR for some reason would believe that’s the issue. Because otherwise writing up the OP makes zero sense.

              To emphasize: I’m not saying OP *is actually* harassing the coworker. If she were, there would have to be an entire an enormous backstory to all this, and somehow, someway, a normal hygiene product in the back of one’s car would have to fit into the pattern of harassment (magically). It’s just that I’m sure workplace harassment must be on the minds of the HR rep, and maybe the coworker is at BEC stage with the OP and so that’s the lens through which they are viewing this.

              OP needs to push back.

          2. Tricia*

            I agree. Given the almost universal reaction in the comments here is one of incredulity and disgust I am hopeful that if she was to escalate this to higher management they would naturally side with her on this issue.

          3. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

            A stern letter is of course fine (and could be helpful if HR is stubborn), but it’s not a hostile work environment claim, so I don’t think it’s helpful to suggest that that’s the cause of action or theory of liability.

        2. Not a Morning Person*

          I would use the term biological and not medical. It’s not a medical condition to have operating ovaries and uterus.

        3. General Ginger*

          I wouldn’t go with “condition that only affects women” as it doesn’t only affect women.

            1. Emac*

              Well, no. Trans men and non binary people (and possibly others I’m not aware of) can as well.

        4. Rose*

          I still would bring it up, though, because it’s at least approaching that issue. I wouldn’t sue for it…yet. But I would bring it up to HR.

    6. Glowcat*

      I really can’t believe it! Alison, was it really an email or rather a quill-written scroll? It sounds a lot like “pull down your skirts, I can see your *ankles*!”

    7. Marketer*

      My boss at my first job out of college was a man. One day when I had my period I took my handbag to the ladies’ room to change my tampon and when I came back to my desk, my boss came up to me and said (loudly, in our open plan office), “Ugh, I hate when women take their purses to the bathroom! It means you have your period and I just don’t want to have to think about that! Can’t you be more discreet about it?” I. Was. Mortified. And spent the rest of my time there hiding a tampon up my sleeve when I went to the restroom.

      That was 22 years ago. I wanted to believe we had progressed as a society since then, but clearly we haven’t. We’re still in the land of “Ewww…girls are icky!” Sigh.

      1. Grapey*

        I had a very similar experience but I just said “Uteruses bleed. You might want to talk to someone about getting over other people’s basic biology.”

      2. General Ginger*

        How does a woman taking a purse into the bathroom automatically mean period, anyway? She could be fixing her make-up, fixing her hair, applying deodorant, taking medication she doesn’t want to take at her desk, brushing her teeth, bringing in better toilet paper if the office paper is cheap, or any number of other things one could be doing in the bathroom.

        1. essEss*

          I think I need to refresh this page every couple seconds because someone beats me to my comment each time, and usually phrase their comment better than mine. LOL

          1. General Ginger*

            Every time that happens to me, I feel kind of encouraged, because I think it just goes to show that there are way more rational and reasonable people out there than jerks who make jerky assumptions!

      3. essEss*

        It also means that they want to re-apply their lipstick after eating, they want to comb their hair or reapply their hairspray, they want to brush their teeth, or take their medication….

      4. KayEss*

        I worked with a guy a couple years ago who enjoyed harping on and on about how gross periods are to the one other dude in the office, while all the women sat in silence. (This was one of several of his truly terrible social hobbies designed to make people uncomfortable.) During one of these tirades, I finally snapped at them, “Yes, vaginas are SOOOOO disgusting, curious how you’re all still obsessed with sticking your dicks in them!” Not my proudest moment, but at least it killed the line of conversation dead.

        Ultimately there wasn’t anyone at that job that I’d deign to spit on if they were burning to death, but that guy in particular was a real piece of work.

        3. Anne (with an "e")*

          I adore how you handled this. The only part I don’t like is that you didn’t say that to the jerk earlier.

    9. Morgan*

      Can you imagine having to pump in the car with this woman as a coworker? How many ounces did I get at work today??? Hmmm not sure I’ll just ask Brenda!

  2. many bells down*

    They were private. They were in a bag in your PRIVATE VEHICLE. Maybe your co-worker should stop peering in your windows looking for things to be offended about. So mad. Can’t do words.

      1. Oilpress*

        This is the first letter on this site that actually made me say out loud, “That can’t be real.” After thinking about it more, I still don’t think it’s real. There are too many people involved. Maybe I could understand one person being go special that they complained about such a thing to their manager or HR, but I can’t think of any situation where someone working in an HR department would take this complaint seriously AND write a note on someone’s file about it.

        That said, I would love to see proof of it. If it’s real, it deserves national media attention for being absolutely ridiculous. Of course, that would blow up the writer’s job situation, but I’d still want to see the public response to what is clearly an HR mistake.

        1. Julia*

          Don’t you remember the poor guy whose co-worker got him fired for making his own – that co-worker stole – too spicy? That one seemed unbelievable as well, until we found out lunch thief had been having, er, special meetings with the HR lady who had fired the LW.

        2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          I understand, but Alison does ask us to refrain from questioning the “realness” of the letters because it can dissuade others from writing in.

          1. Anonymous Ampersand*

            I believe I saw a comment from Alison last week saying she’d dialed back on that, but I can’t remember when or back this up in any way. I’m posting in the hope Alison clarifies whether or not I dreamed this (it’s possible, it’s been a stressful week).

            1. Lance*

              Whatever may be the case there, the end fact is that questioning the validity of a letter isn’t really helpful, and doesn’t contribute to anything in particular. It would be far more helpful to have actual discussion or solutions about what’s there.

              1. Falling Diphthong*

                I hate “this can’t be real” derailments. They are truly pointless, and there is no situation so mundane that the accusation can’t be whipped out.

                Exception for pointing out things that are literally impossible (e.g. There is no law in the US about visible menstrual products in a car), but usually the standard is “I wouldn’t react like this, ergo no one would.” It’s like arguing that polls are made up because they don’t say “100% of respondents agree with Cersei about Chet being a goober, because Cersei is RIGHT.”

                1. Jesca*

                  I agree. A lot of people here didn’t believe that office poop spy letter a while back, but the same thing happened here a couple weeks later!!!! (I even wrote about in the open thread because the poop police here has had past issues with … ahem … appropriate behavior)

                  People are weird, as in, they don’t always react the way you would.

              2. EvilQueenRegina*

                Yes, this – even if a specific letter isn’t real, there might be someone out there with a problem on similar lines that the advice might help, also in a situation like, for example, that guy who sent his boss to the wrong country that some people thought was an April Fool – if it made one person check to make sure they were booking a flight to the right airport, it was worth printing.

              3. Anonymous Ampersand*

                Not saying I disagree! Just saying it’s no longer site policy in the way it was.

            2. Ask a Manager* Post author

              Yes, that’s correct. I used to ask that because I felt bad for letter-writers when people didn’t believe them (and sometimes people were disbelieving of pretty non-sensational stuff), but I realized it was way too tyrannical to say “you can’t question these letters!” The comment rules now just say: “I have no way of knowing if the letters people submit or real or not. I assume all advice columnists get trolled now and then, but I don’t really care as long as the answer might be useful to someone.” But I will still jump in if it becomes derailing or unkind.

        3. Ann Furthermore*

          You’re not alone. I don’t think it’s real either. There have been a few letters lately that I’ve found to be questionable.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Oh, so agreed. Just on what I have seen, I believe these OPs most of the time. But even if the letter is not true, we have lost nothing because we had an enlightening and informative conversation. I can’t think of a better response to prank letters, address it intelligently, learn from it and move on. The only person who did not grow themselves was the prank LW themselves. The rest of us are just fine here.

          2. LouiseM*

            Me too. I actually assume a LOT of them are fake or even embellished, but agree with Alison that sometimes the advice would be helpful to someone in a similar but more plausible situation. In this case, there is basically no advice (just yes, this is wrong) so I don’t see how it helps anyone else because it’s so outlandish. The main point of the letter seemed to just be to get commenters to speculate on whether trans women are jealous of “biological” women, which is not what I hope to see on this site.

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              Half my answer is advice about what to say when she pushes back.

              My sense from emailing with the letter writer is that it’s real. I don’t print letters that I think are fake, although I’m sure sometimes I miss one. (But I also don’t think there’s a huge community of people sending in fake letters to advice columns. I’m sure it happens but I doubt it’s super frequent. I get a huge amount of mail at AAM and most of it is run of the mill, as is usually reflected here.)

            2. Perse's Mom*

              How on earth would that be the point of the letter when there’s no *mention* of it in the initial letter, only buried in the comments section as a sidenote?

            3. Delphine*

              That’s completely unfair. The LW didn’t even mention the coworker was trans, we wouldn’t know if Alison hadn’t informed us.

          3. Muriel Heslop*

            You are so fortunate. I deal with the breadth of humanity in my job as a middle school teacher and I am actually surprised the letters aren’t more outlandish. People are astounding.

          4. essEss*

            I think it’s very likely real. I’ve worked in some absolutely bizarre places where common sense has never made an appearance. I’ve listened to people try to file grievances over things that make your head spin. I watched a coworker storm into a C-level meeting and accuse the people in the room of deliberately sending electricity from their meeting into her keyboard to shock her at her desk.

        4. Technical_Kitty*

          I once got in trouble for showing up at the office instead of going to site (I was instructed by my boss to go into the office, which was seconded by the VP) after I was on quarantine for a possible illness that was easily spread. It was one of the flu type virus’ that were especially bad to introduce to small communities but easily contracted in a an international airport, and I had a low grade fever after traveling back to the country I was living in at the time. I had a low grade fever for a couple days, stayed/worked from home a few more, got a doctors note clearing me and then went into the office. Then apparently someone freaked out and I got pulled into an HR meeting and reprimanded. HR people are usually fine, but don’t underestimate the incredible stupidity possible by humans.

        5. Annie Moose*

          There have been multiple letters over the years about people getting in trouble for having menstrual products at work/needing to deal with their period at work. I don’t find it very unbelievable myself.

        1. Liane*

          Next Act: Complainer and Unthinking HR open up a dialog on accommodating Complainer’s menstrual products phobia by transferring them to a building/floor where no employees are premenopausal cis women who still have uteri and/or female to male transgender who still have periods.

          1. Julia*

            How would they even verify who menstruates and who doesn’t without causing an enormous amount of outrage? Would people have to disclose everything or do they just assume who menstruates? I’m 28 and female and I don’t because I’m on a special pill to help with my endometriosis – but does that mean I want to be moved into another office? I’d be talking to a lawyer before HR could even say “period”.

    3. namelesscommentator*

      I am actually quite scandalized at the idea of leaving visible items in a car, but that’s city life for you…. (& could fully imagine somebody saying “please don’t partake in high risk activity for crime in a work parking lot … like leaving visible valuable items in your car”

      I’m a bit jealous you live in an area where the bag was still there when you got back, OP!

      1. Marzipan*

        I know the cost of sanitary products is a real issue for many women, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call them ‘valuable’…

        1. Not Australian*

          Hey, our car was broken into and a bag full of *rubbish* (i.e. used tissues and sweet wrappers) stolen. Leaving anything visible can be enough in some areas, but in others you’d get away with it. Presumably the OP’s workplace has secure parking…

          1. Jady*

            Completely unrelated but reminded me of this.

            A few years ago, I accidentally left my car doors opened. I’m usually pretty good about keeping them locked.

            The next morning someone had clearly been in my car. All my various stuff was thrown around. There was also my collection of CDs sitting in the passenger seat spread out.

            Nothing was stolen. Apparently my taste in music is that bad.

            1. Short fuse*

              Ha! I had my stereo stolen out of my car once. The thief had obviously gone through all my cds but left them all behind.

            2. many bells down*

              My sister-in-law used to have a really old Bronco that she stopped locking after the 3rd time her windows got broken. After that, it became clear that someone was sleeping in her car at night, but nothing else got stolen.

        2. Gaz112*

          When my wife was at university, someone broke into her car and stole a bag of dirty washing……..

          1. Princess Loopy*

            When I was in grad school, someone broke into my ancient, beat up old Honda, stole the (not visible) change in the ashtray, and drank the dregs of a 3-day old Frappucino. Never know what will tempt someone.

            1. FoxyDog*

              Someone once stole the ashtray itself from my car. I think they were mad, because it appeared they had tried (and failed) to steal the car and the stereo.

          2. KHB*

            When I lived in Chicago, someone broke into my friend’s car and stole an empty CD case.

            When my boyfriend lived in Washington DC, someone broke into his car and stole absolutely nothing. (He did have a bag on his back seat that looked like a laptop bag, but wasn’t.)

            1. SpaceySteph*

              My mom always used to tell us to hide stuff not because it was really valuable but because replacing a car window is expensive.
              My friend’s grandfather wouldn’t even lock his car, for the same reason. He’d rather someone just steal his stuff than break the window to do it.

              1. SusanIvanova*

                My brother had his window broken and his college textbooks stolen. Window was covered by insurance, the far more expensive books were not.

              2. DDJ*

                Related: my sister’s car was broken into so many times (busted windows) that she stopped locking it.

                One day she went out to her car and everything was pulled out of the console and glove boxes, change scattered over the seats…but nothing was missing. Her sunglasses were still there, clothes, a few other miscellaneous items. She had $10-$15 in change in her cup holder, and it was all still there. Just tossed all over the front seat.

                But there were tampons (still wrapped) strewn all about, along with everything else. Near as she can figure, the would-be thief grabbed a bunch of stuff, then opened up the console to find tampons, threw everything down in horror and ran away.

            2. Kelly L.*

              Yep, this happened to a boyfriend of mine too, though not in DC. He had a messenger bag that looked vaguely laptop-ish. The cops later found some pages of his homework fluttering around the street–they think the thief got pissed when they realized it was just papers and threw them everywhere.

          3. General Ginger*

            This happened to me, too! And I wasn’t exactly dressing in anything nice in college — most of my stuff was thrifted. So, dirty, old, mostly heavily used clothing.

        3. Blah*

          When I worked retail in a high homelessness part of San Francisco, toilet paper was, like, one of the biggest things that got stolen. We couldn’t keep the restrooms stocked to save our lives. Locked toilet paper holders would just get the locks broken.

          Knowing San Francisco, I have absolutely no doubt they’d smash a car window to get sanitary pads. Easier than getting through the shatterproof plastic lockboxes in the stores.

        6. essEss*

          Ha-ha… when I was in college, some friends and I were going to go on an overnight trip in the morning so I packed a small backpack with a change of clothes and a small bag inside with some sanitary pads. I slept on the couch in their living room so we could leave early in the morning together. When I woke up in the morning, the apartment front door was wide open and someone had actually stolen my bag from right next to my head where I was sleeping, along with a friend’s wallet that was on the table near me. We went out into the hallway and there was my backpack with everything pulled out… the little bag was pulled out and had been dropped further down the hallway with all the pads scattered around. I think the thief was pissed when he opened that bag because it did look like a wallet.

        7. Not So NewReader*

          Valuable. With the whole heroin epidemic we have a new value system. Things that can be sold for a few bucks now have more value than they used to have. A family member said in her area people take change out of the console of the vehicle. If you leave your change it WILL be gone.

      2. Specialk9*

        I totally get that belief, but it’s not universal in all cities.

        I grew up in a city known for poverty, drugs, and violence and after I moved to a city with jobs and low murder rates, was aghast that my partner left parking quarters out in the open in his parked car. That’s just not done! Your windows will be smashed within minutes! But he’s never had any trouble with it, and over the years I finally started doing it. I wouldn’t do it back home though.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Yes, it does depend on where you live. I grew up in an middle-middle class area. We locked EVERYTHING.
          Where I live now, people lost the key to their house 30 years ago and still have no sense of urgency to find it.

          I so get the idea of hiding things in your car so they cannot be seen. But if I talk that way around here people look at me oddly.

      3. WillyNilly*

        I live in NYC. I once had the doors to my car stolen – taken right off at the bolts. But my ashtray change, CDs, even a leather jacket on the seat, all were left untouched (by the door thieves and anyone who walked by between the theft and me finding my door-less car).

        1. Eye of Sauron*

          Only two plausible explanations, either the walkers by felt bad for you and didn’t want to add insult to injury or they thought they were being filmed as some social experiment or really really obvious police sting operation by the police.

          Either way, holy buckets that’s crazy!

          1. WillyNilly*

            Well the other plausible, and probable, explanation is, the majority of people are not thieves and the door thieves only wanted the doors.
            I have walked by vehicles with open trunks or doors, or empty running vehicles, etc, and never considered stealing. Considered closing the trunk or door, yes, grabbing contents, no.

        2. General Ginger*

          One of my cousins got his hubcaps, windshield wipers and bumper stolen. This was in Moscow in the 1990s.

      4. mrs_helm*

        Working in a small town in ’99, someone broke into my ratty VW Golf – while paskred at work – and stole my CD case. Jokes on them, it was full of Christian music CDs… Man, I miss Audio Adrenaline. (starts new playlist…)

      5. Jules the Third*

        heh – at the university my dad taught at for years, one of his students had his old, broken down car stolen.

        They had to push the car to start it, and stole it anyway.

        He went to the police station to report it, an incoming officer said, ‘wait, I think I saw that in the parking lot’, and they found the thief was at the station paying traffic tickets.

        Some people will steal anything. I just don’t keep anything in my car and leave it unlocked, to avoid the window getting smashed. If they want my carpet dirt they can have it.

      6. Elizabeth H.*

        I don’t think it’s that unusual? One of my family’s cars actually doesn’t lock at all and I park it on the street where I live (a safe, but totally urban) area. I don’t like leave my laptop in there, but nothing has been stolen including quarters and bags of bottles/cans for redemption.

      7. tangerineRose*

        Where I live, my rule is to not leave anything that looks valuable in a visible spot. I’m not sure if that really works, or if I’ve been lucky. I wouldn’t have thought that these would be high theft items, but sounds like it depends on the area.

    4. Anonymous Ampersand*

      I presumed that the LW had been giving the offended party a lift. I am flabbergasted.

    6. A.N. O'Nyme*

      I would put a note saying “Nosy Nancy :) ” on the bag in the future. She can’t complain I called her that because how could I know she’d read notes that are in my car?

    7. Rincat*

      In a lot of states, your car is considered an extension of your home and personal property, even when not parked at your residence, so…yeah. You can keep weapons in it, smoke in it, do whatever because it’s YOUR PROPERTY. So I’m boggled as to why she was written up for something on her PRIVATE PERSONAL PROPERTY.

  3. Jane D'oh*

    If a man is so sensitive that seeing a package of menstrual products sends him into a tizzy and offends his delicate sensibilities, he shouldn’t be in any kind of position with authority. I’m surprised OP 1’s coworker can leave the house. He might be around a woman using said products.

    OP 1, is there a woman in HR or in management that you can go to about this? This is just wrong and I am angry on your behalf. Men should not be allowed to treat women this way. It’s a biological function, not the plague.

      1. Hills to Die on*

        If only Alison could interview these people to find out What the Actual F@^k is going through their heads…

        1. Hills to Die on*

          And I still cannot wrap my head around this. Are these people normal and sane in their other job-related duties because this is seriously odd and illogical.

    2. namelesscommentator*

      The LW indicates it was a woman who lodged the complaint. Doesn’t make it right, but it does add a layer to it. I’m wondering if it was a clueless man in HR feeling uncomfortable questioning a woman complaining about visible menstrual products.

      This is all kinds of WTF.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I had a short email exchange with the letter writer, and the person who complained, the HR person, and her boss who wrote her up are all women. (For the sake of being thorough, she also mentioned the coworker who complained is a transgender woman, but I don’t think that changes anything.)

        2. JamieS*

          So a woman who has never had a period and never will? I think it changes things. It doesn’t change your answer but it does makes more sense for someone who’s never experienced a period (or the joys that come along with it) to be put off by feminine products than someone who has. Not sure what HR’s problem was. Do they just write up every complaint or was the write up just an acknowledgement someone complained but not an actual disciplinary write up? So many unanswered questions.

          1. sacados*

            I mean, I can definitely understand, in that context, how seeing those items could be painful for a trans woman. But that said…
            1) you should be able to separate those feelings from the logical reality which is that there is nothing wrong with someone having toiletries in their car, visible or not. Unless there’s some larger pattern of harassment and/or bullying that made the coworker think the LW deliberately placed the pads in view of Coworker in order to taunt her or something. But that’s a leap — and taking the letter at face value as we always try to do here, there’s nothing to indicate anything of that sort.
            AND
            2) As many people have mentioned, it seems astoundingly lazy and poorly judged that HR actually decided to pass the complaint along, rather than doing their job and explaining to the complaining coworker that people are allowed to have things in their car.

            1. Yvette*

              ‘Unless there’s some larger pattern of harassment and/or bullying that made the coworker think the LW deliberately placed the pads in view of Coworker in order to taunt her or something.’ Could HR have thought that was going on? Or could they have worried about being perceived as insensitive to a transgender woman and may not have reacted the same had it been a man or a sis gendered woman?

              1. Observer*

                If that’s what HR thought then the whole workplace is incredibly toxic or they are incredibly incompetent. The pads were in her car in a bag! So Ms. Complainer actually had to LOOK FOR THEM.

                1. Seriously?*

                  I agree. If she were leaving pads on the coworkers desk it would be harassment. Having them in the backseat of her car is just normal.

                2. Mickey Q*

                  My back seat windows are tinted. You would have to get up close and really look hard to see what was in the bag.

              2. many bells down*

                Yeah I kind of wonder if HR got really worried about being perceived as hostile or discriminatory, and didn’t stop to consider that the complaint was meritless regardless of the genders (or genitals) of the people involved.

                2. Scarlet*

                  Yes, it’s not just ridiculous, but also obviously a form of gender-based discrimination. I’m truly curious to imagine what the coworker was exactly complaning about? “A woman had her periods at me”?

                  Marginalized and oppressed people too can be bigoted. If coworker had deep-seated sexism issues before transitioning, they didn’t magically disappear. And we all internalize a lot of sexism unfortunately. It might be “painful” for coworker (but the what next… is she planning on petitioning to force supermarkets to hide tampons behind a black curtain?), but her reaction is rooted in misogyny and bigotry.

                3. Mookie*

                  Agree with you there, Scarlet.

                  Not that I see a lot of it belowthread, but with respect to the case of the co-worker who finds tampons discomfiting, we don’t need to extrapolate from her identity debunked essentialism, where women can’t understand womanhood if they lack or have an excess of specific body parts or their bodies don’t perform certain functions. Trans women have long been demonized as oppressors who are Jus Jellus of pillow-soft cis vulvas and magical period blood, like these, along with sugar and spice, are what make us all women.

                  In this instance, I’m also going with Occam: we live in a culture that is performatively grossed out by menstruation because menstruation is coded as female. No one is immune to that, that includes women and includes people who menstruate but aren’t women. So that’s the likely explanation here for ALL of these women dropping the ball (the boss and the HR rep are also female), not that this one trans woman is a failure or an especially witchy witch with whom we need to be excessively, handwringingly disappointed in. Members of oppressed and marginalized classes are still human, still weak, still fall for the same toxic bigotry none of us are entirely immune to. I don’t know what this woman’s boggle is, but as a woman who’s known women all her life, I’m sure as shit not shocked at finding one in the wild who thinks pads should neither be seen nor heard of.

                4. Thlayli*

                  I think there is a good chance that the complainer is someone who thinks that cis women are being cis “at them”. There are definitely people who think that way – remember the time a university in Britain wasn’t allowed to show the “Vagina monologues” because it was considered to exclude women without vaginas? Or the multiple complaints about people using signs on the women’s march that used images of female sexual organs?

                  I can definitely believe that there exists somewhere in the world a trans woman who believes their female coworkers should hide all evidence of menstruation to avoid reminding trans women that they can’t menstruate.

                  I can also totally believe that HR is so afraid of being accused of transphobia that they didn’t stop to think that they were being sexist by enforcing this ridiculous request.

                5. fposte*

                  @Thlayli–it’s possible that I’m missing an event, but the only universities I can find that stopped performing The Vagina Monologues are Mount Holyoke and American University in the US, and it wasn’t forbidden but a choice of the theater company that presented it annually before. It *has* been forbidden by some governments, such as Uganda, but I can’t find a university that’s banned it in the UK.

                6. Thlayli*

                  Fposte you are right, I made a couple of minor mistakes in my earlier post. I read an article (I believe in a British newspaper) that mentioned the play being banned (this was their word) for excluding transgender women at a university, and also mentioned students at a British university protesting a prominent feminist on the grounds that they considered her to be transphobic so they didn’t want to hear what she had to say about feminism. I got the two universities mixed up.

                  I’ve also googled it just now and found that the reason the play was not performed in the American university was definitely because some people felt it was offensive / exclusionary / unfair to trans women.

                  I don’t think it really matters whether this happened in the US or Britain, or whether it was “banned” or “cancelled after being performed for many years”. Either way, there are people in existence who actually think that cis-women talking about vaginas onstage is somehow offensive to trans-women.

                  Since people who believe that clearly exist, I don’t have any difficulty in believing that there are people in existence who that that cis women being open about their periods is offensive to trans women. A minority of trans people do actually seem to believe that cis people are being cis *at* them.

                7. fposte*

                  @Thlayli–yes, I’ve no doubt that all kinds of people can have dumb reactions to all kinds of things. Just clarifying that no authority told the students they couldn’t present the plays; that the students, mostly cis women themselves, decided they didn’t want to do so.

                8. JB (not in Houston)*

                  @thlayi
                  “there are people in existence who actually think that cis-women talking about vaginas onstage is somehow offensive to trans-women.”

                  I don’t want to derail, so I’ll just say that maybe you should read a little bit more about that issue before talking about it because I believe you are oversimplifying the complaint some have had to the point of misrepresenting it.

              4. Tuxedo Cat*

                That’s the only way to me that would make sense. I feel like that would be really hard to prove in this instance.

            2. Tricia*

              “Unless there’s some larger pattern of harassment and/or bullying that made the coworker think the LW deliberately placed the pads in view of Coworker in order to taunt her or something. ”

              They were in a bag in her car in the parking lot! You think she went out and bought them, along with other pharmacy products, put them in a bag and left them in her car all because she knew the coworker would go snooping around her car and wanted to discomfit her?

              2. One of the Sarahs*

                If there was a wider pattern of harassment, THAT it what HR should be focused on. It makes no sense to only focus 1 incident that would be very, very difficult to prove – while presumably allowing the other harassing activities to continue.

                (I completely understand microaggressions, but this (a box of pads on the back seat of a car, in a bag with other materials) is a real reach, without other things to go with it)

            3. LKW*

              Let’s unpack this issue for a moment since HR didn’t bother to: If one of the women gets pregnant, does that mean she can’t come to work for fear of upsetting this woman? What if one of the other women is infertile? Does she get to register a complaint too?

              HR panicked. This is absurd. Go back to HR. Get the file removed. Don’t discuss with your co-worker because she’s a little unhinged.

              1. Detective Amy Santiago*

                The other thing is that we don’t even know if the nature of the complaint was being transphobic. LW only included the info about the complaining coworker as an afterthought, which makes me think it wasn’t the actual focus of the write up.

                1. Jesca*

                  Yeah, I think you are right there. Internalized misogyny is a hard mindset to break! Every day, I am more enlightened to my own preconceived notions as well! Like how if women like a certain type of product, all of the sudden it is mocked. That NEVER occurred to me before until someone linked it here! I don’t know what is going through the heads of the people at OP’s job, because you would think that at some point some rational person would have went, wait, what exactly are we doing here?!

              2. mb13*

                I wrote the same things above. It seems like the HR took the approach of “A trans employee had a complaint, we must do what ever they say with out a moment wasted on logical thinking, other wise well be viewed as anti trans”

                I hope the LW immediately goes to a lawyer and brings the hammer down on the company. The natural consequences will roll out from there

            4. LavaLamp*

              Question; if pads in the car is taunting this woman, then what is the tampon machine in the ladies room, a full out attack on her lack of menstruation?

              Had I been in this situation I’d have pointed out that it’s really interesting that I can’t have in my car the same things that are in every public ladies room. In fact, you can probably use that argument when you tell them this is a baseless disciplinary action.

              1. Not So NewReader*

                Great question, where do we draw the line here? I was thinking of private areas for women to pump their breast milk, do we get rid of those too?

            6. JamieS*

              Honestly, and this is probably going to be insensitive but I’m saying it regardless, I don’t think it matters whether or not seeing the pads is painful for the coworker. If OP did something that specifically targeted the coworker that’d be a whole different jar of cookie dough. However, based on what we know, the only thing OP did is have something that she needed in her car and being sensitive to others shouldn’t extend to the point of being punished and/or made to feel ashamed for possessing something you need.

          2. LouiseM*

            To me it still doesn’t make sense at all (not least because many trans people have themselves been subjected to obscene invasions of privacy, probing questions about their genitals, etc.) Many people might assume that trans women would never have use for menstrual products, but actually some people who have had bottom surgery do use maxi pads as dressings during the recovery period. So it’s not out of the realm of the possibility that this woman actually has some experience with maxi pads. In any case, this whole situation is so ridiculous, you can’t make this stuff up!

            1. JamieS*

              Making more sense isn’t the same as making sense. I’m with you that the complaint is ridiculous. My point was, at least in my mind, it makes more sense for someone who’s never experienced a period to be less sympathetic and more prone to complain about a feminine hygiene product than someone who has. So starting out I was completely baffled on why a woman would complain about something like a pad but learning more I’m now slightly less baffled but still as enraged as I can be on behalf of another person.

              1. Scarlet*

                But why would they be more prone to complain though? They never realized that women menstruated before?

            2. Cambridge Comma*

              We all have strange coworkers and some of them make strange complaints on occasion. The actual problem is that HR ran with it.

              1. Juli G.*

                This. People are strange as hell and complain about really dumb things sometimes. HR should coach someone politely as to why their complaint is dumb.

              3. Anion*

                I suspect HR and the boss were so busy falling all over themselves to virtue-signal their “acceptance and support” for the transwoman, and patting themselves on the back for being so open and caring, that they neither noticed nor cared that they were throwing the LW under the bus. What do her feelings, finances, and career plans matter when there’s a chance to display their open-mindedness by punishing a woman for having menstrual products in her own personal, private vehicle, bought with her own money on her own time? She should take one for the team so they can make themselves feel good.

                1. Tea*

                  That is a strange and presumptuous conclusion to jump to, and just about as likely as the prospect that OP is actually some mustache twirling bigot who fabricated this whole thing as an attempt to discredit trans people after harassing her coworker. Why imagine some wholly unlikely (especially given our current political climate and the virulent transphobia of our society) drama about backpatting and virtue signaling when it’s just as likely that coworker, HR, and co. are among the many, many people who consider menstruation taboo and unspeakable and unmentionable in all situations?

                  Did you consider all of the other instances where people wrote to Allison about being reprimanded for having pads an instance where their managers had “a chance to display their open-mindedness by punishing a woman for having menstrual products […] so they can make themselves feel good,” and get all up in arms about virtue signaling and discrimination against cis women so people can ~feel good about themselves~? I somehow doubt it. The situation isn’t wholly wildly different because of the genders of people involved.

                2. Anion*

                  Actually, Tea, it’s the same hypothesis several others have expressed, just with different wording: HR was so busy making sure they seemed “inclusive” and “supportive” and “pro-trans” that they sacrificed LW without noticing or caring.

                  And no, I don’t think the other letters are situations where managers were doing that; the situations in the other letters had absolutely nothing to do with this situation. I would still think any HR that backed up someone complaining about pads in a woman’s car was completely messed up and ridiculous, and was going out of their way to coddle someone who shouldn’t be coddled. The mere fact that so many people in this discussion are talking about “oppressed classes,” and actually urging that we view the co-worker kindly and that the co-worker’s “identity” completely changes both the complaint and how the LW should feel and respond to it, supports my point more strongly than yours, frankly.

            3. Slartibartfast*

              I haven’t menstrated in nearly a decade, but there’s pads in the first aid kit in my car for exactly this reason. They are excellent wound dressings. This tip was taught to me by a male search and rescue instructor.

              1. Susan Sto Helit*

                A friend of mine sliced her hand open on a broken glass at a party once where we were all drunk, and couldn’t find where the first aid kit had been stashed. Guess what we ended up using to staunch the blood…

              2. Not So NewReader*

                EMTs told me the same thing, too. I was very impressed with this information as at that time I always had a maxi or two with me. We are pretty rural here and it’s not unusual to be the first on an accident scene. I was pleased to find a way that I might possibly help if need be.

          3. Mookie*

            Eh. Heaps of women have never and will never menstruate. As someone lacking testicles, I don’t get a shiver of disgust up my spine at the sight of an obviously soiled jock strap, so this unacceptable and invasive primness is probably not about this woman’s gender alignment or about trans women’s myriad experiences in general. No one is immune to cooties-style misogyny; that something is alien or unfamiliar to us does not make us automatically shrink from it unless we’re trained to, and we’re certainly trained to view the insides and outsides of girl’s and women’s bodies (cis and trans alike) as simultaneously up for grabs and extended discussion and also too dirty for public viewing.

            These people — boss, HR, corporate — need every available ass handed to them in short order.

            2. Thlayli*

              I’d get grossed out by a soiled jockstrap! Soiled under garments are gross, regardless of gender or sex.

          4. Observer*

            Anyone who is such a delicate flower that the sight of something that they went looking for(!) is going throw them into such a tizzy needs to stay home or get some help for their nosiness and hypersensitivity.

            The OP said that she was “written up”, told “not to do it again” and to “keep it private.”

            1. Lara*

              Usually, a car is pretty private. Unless of course, people choose to peer through the windows.

              1. AvonLady Barksdale*

                I have occasionally peered through a window or two. Usually by accident. Do I remark on what I see? To myself, sure. “Whoa, my co-worker’s car is SO DIRTY,” is a thought that has gone through my mind. But I also have the sense to keep those thoughts to my damn self, because that is what the most skilled of the nosy people know how to do, and because, as you say, a car is generally pretty private.

                1. Fiennes*

                  Right. The only way I’d report something in a coworker’s car would be if it were a child or pet locked in and left there. I wouldn’t even report a weapon minus (a) previous troubling behavior and/or (b) the presence of a very large number of weapons.

                2. General Ginger*

                  I’ve peered through a coworker’s car windows once, because I was considering buying the same car and wanted to see how roomy it was, but I can’t imagine then complaining about the contents of the actual car. I felt creepy enough even looking, and were I in the same situation again I’d probably just ask coworker directly.

            2. mb13*

              If someone is in so much turmoil over seeing a common place item, I dont think they are ready for work environment (or really any social environment). They should probably take a considerable amount of time to improve their mental state that seeing a simple object would not send them to a dysfunctional spiral.

              1. Not So NewReader*

                This. The world is not going to rally around this person to protect them from seeing pads.

          5. MM*

            I mean, every kind of person exists out there somewhere, but in my experience trans women are exponentially more conscious about misogyny and every other kind of gender dynamic under the sun than just about any other group of people. The fact that it was a trans woman of ALL POSSIBLE PEOPLE who did this is really shocking to me.

            1. Scarlet*

              I’m shocked too, but we need to remember that we all internalize toxic shit and oppressed people are not immune from it.

            2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

              Feminine hygiene products have been used in some contexts to be explicitly transphobic, so I could understand someone feeling triggered only if there was a reason for them to think OP did it to attack their femininity or their identity as a woman.

              But if there’s no context other than the pads were in OP’s car (which sounds like the situation), then I don’t think there’s a transphobia issue, and the coworker’s behavior is out of pocket.

              1. CityMouse*

                I find that odd too. There are plenty of cis women who don’t menstruate either (like a friend of mine with endo who takes medication). The idea of merely having feminine products being transphobic is absurd. Some people seem to think everything is about them.

                2. General Ginger*

                  @Detective Amy Santiago (are you updating that handle to Sergeant soon? :) ) I should hope not, given that I am frequently that very man. I can definitely, unfortunately, think of a number of situations where menstrual products can be used in transphobic ways, but the idea that simply having them is transphobic is utterly ridiculous.

                3. Detective Amy Santiago*

                  @General Ginger

                  Exactly!

                  (and maybe, we’ll see how the rest of the season goes lol)

              2. Mookie*

                That’s a good point in the first para.

                From everything Alison and the LW say, this complaint has come out of nowhere. While it doesn’t apply to this letter, I’ve never really been directly involved in mitigating complaints or suspicions of bullying or harassing so I’m not sure: is it common to name the person complaining to the person being complained about? I’d’ve thought there’d be some privacy there, though obviously in this case there doesn’t really seem to be the need for any.

                As I said above, someone going bananas over pads is not novel to me, but it’s really bizarre that the boss and HR think this is somehow the LW’s fault. The only reasonable response would be to advise the complainer not to peer into people’s cars if she’s liable to be offended by the presence of commonplace items like hygiene products with the added warning not to bother the LW about this because it is not a discussion / confrontation they welcome in their workplace. Enabling this kind of nitpicking nosey Parkerism is not a good sign.

              3. Annabelle*

                Yeah, I’m wondering if the pads triggered a painful memory/flashback for the coworker. That’s obviously no excuse for what she did, because holy hell it’s shitty, but I can’t think of any other plausible explanation.

                1. Mad Baggins*

                  Same. I can only imagine the coworker going to the pharmacy, going down the aisle to pick something up that happens to be next to the period stuff, and some bigot yells, “Why do you even need that?” Then, as coworker walks back to the office, she sees the pads in the car. I can see why that would make her feel really awful, but that’s not OP’s fault/problem.

            3. Specialk9*

              That’s been my experience too, with my trans friends being unusually dialed in on gender issues. If there’s anything that makes you take a protracted hard look at gender issues, it’s the feeling that you’re being misclassified and might want to switch sides.

              But of course, people will people. Some people are made vindictive rather than empathetic by suffering.

              1. Mad Baggins*

                “Some people are made vindictive rather than empathetic by suffering.”
                Wow, this sentence just sums up something I was not understanding about the world. Thank you.

          6. Emi.*

            No, it’s still ridiculous. It’s ridiculous to be “put off” by women just living our occasionally bloody lives, and it’s even more ridiculous to get HR involved. OP is being discriminated against for being female, and that’s misogyny, no matter who is doing it.

          7. Muriel Heslop*

            So someone with a fertility issue should report a visible pregnancy test? Or diapers? In my car?
            Being empathetic to someone doesn’t mean we all stop living our lives – it means we act with compassion when dealing with someone face-to-face. It’s not like OP #1 came to work with a pad stuck to the middle of her forehead.

            My students are enthralled by this. They are all on the autism spectrum (high-functioning) and think this is really silly to be upset about. And they don’t understand why women – any women – would care about “that stuff” (None of the boys have been able to bring themselves to say “pads”. But they’re 13.)

            Good luck, OP #1!

        3. LittleRedRidingHuh?*

          Oooh, I can’t even…the complain came from someone, who most likely knows from personal experience how hard it can be to BECOME/BE a woman and still….this is even sadder than I thought.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Yep. OP can get a new job elsewhere and this is over. Coworker’s problems run a bit deeper I am afraid.

        4. bunniferous*

          Pardon me while I sit here and try to figure out what is so offensive about a feminine hygiene product in the back seat of a private vehicle……Is this in Colorado,because I want to ask what these people are smoking….!!!

          1. Sled dog mama*

            Clearly not Colorado, I’m reasonably sure that this level of WTF doesn’t come from smoking that.

        5. CityMouse*

          In my experience, people who are trans are pretty much the same as everybody else in that they are all individuals who are different. That means some of them happen to be jerks, just like everybody else. This doesn’t change my reaction at all.

          1. Tuxedo Cat*

            I don’t think there’s any demographic of people where there aren’t at least a few jerks.

        6. Runner*

          It suggests the trans woman, HR, and the boss all believe OP is harassing the coworker for not being a biological woman.

          1. fposte*

            I think that’s the likeliest explanation for their reaction, but it’s still an inappropriate reaction to the OP’s having sanitary pads in her car. I can’t see any way to hypothesize that the car thing is made up without making the whole letter so fanciful as to be pointless to discuss.

            1. Detective Amy Santiago*

              Or even anywhere on her person. People who have a functional uterus need to use menstrual products and should not be punished for that.

          2. Murphy*

            In the absence of other evidence though, there’s nothing to suggest that that’s what’s happening.

            1. Juli G.*

              Agree. If the OP is harassing her coworker, there has to be something better than THIS to write her up for.

            2. Jessie the First (or second)*

              There is nothing to suggest harassment is actually happening, but it’s reasonable to think that HR, for some reason, *thinks* it is happening (because it’s either that they think there is harassment or they think maxi pads are horrific things that are so gross and they should never be seen anywhere). Which would be useful to keep in mind when OP pushes back, I suppose.

              1. swan.feather*

                Or, perhaps, HR is scared not to do something with the complaint in order to keep HR from being labeled transphobic.

                1. Gazebo Slayer*

                  Or they’re stupidly paranoid about lawsuits, as we all too often see from HR folks who claim they “can’t fire” a terrible coworker because “they’re in a protected class!!!1”

                  (Which actually perpetuates discrimination, because employers are reluctant to hire someone they think they “can’t” fire no matter what. Also, technically everyone is in a protected class, as Alison has repeatedly pointed out.)

        7. Cercis*

          I had wondered if the letter writer was a transgender man and the coworker was offended at having to find out that he still menstruated. This was NOT the transgendered party I was expecting.

          But now I’m thinking about all the transmen and what they must go through each month hiding this normal biological function – especially considering that a lot of men’s rooms don’t have doors on the stalls (I’ve been in positions where I had to go check things in men’s rooms, I can say that at least 50% of the men’s rooms I’ve been in didn’t have doors on the stalls – in professional offices).

          1. A.N. O'Nyme*

            So you get to see each other poop?
            Hell, if the mirrors are right in front of the stalls, do you get to see *yourself* poop?

          2. Jules the Third*

            wait. What?

            No doors on the bathroom stalls in a professional office? WHAT?

            Mind. Blown.

          3. Piny1*

            Hey Allison? Can you maybe clamp down on the casually transphobic language all over this thread? I assume you’d intervene if you posted a letter from a lesbian and your commenters made a bunch of references to “inverts” and “homosexuals” or started calling her a “gaywoman.” The above comment is on tgat level. This is really hostile, and like your gig is human resources, so…don’t host a discussion where a bunch of people say a bunch of bigoted stuff about a marginalized group they clearly don’t have much engagement with?

            2. Ask a Manager* Post author

              I don’t always see every comment, especially on threads this long, but if you flag specific ones I can take a look. I genuinely don’t know if there’s something I’m missing in Cersei’s comment that reads as transphobic, and I apologize for that. Can you help me understand?

              1. Marvel*

                Usually there is a space between “trans” and “woman/man,” and the word “transgendered” is not generally considered correct; “transgender” is.

                THAT SAID. There are actual trans people, especially of the older generation, who refer to themselves with both of the above terms all the time. So I think couching a lack of clarity as to what language is currently considered acceptable (which is rapidly changing as trans issues gain traction and the community becomes more mainstream) as rampant transphobia that needs to be shut down is… somewhat bizarre.

                Context: I am a trans person. Does “transman” bother me? Yep. But I don’t expect everyone to keep up with something that is still rather rapidly evolving, so I don’t think it’s a sign of rampant transphobia. It’s just an issue of language that can be corrected simply by explaining to the person what the more accepted wording is.

                1. Marvel*

                  Also, it drives me crazy when people slam others for things like language choice when it is CLEARLY a case of being uninformed because these issues are really only just now finding their way into the mainstream. And frankly, most of the people who slam others probably didn’t know this a couple of years ago either. It’s so easy to fix. We’re all learning. Let’s explain and move on.

                4. Cercis*

                  I’m sorry, I really didn’t know that it had changed, nor that there was normally a space. Like most people, I don’t personally know anyone at this point who is trans (or at least that I know – I don’t ask people the status of their gender at birth, it is, of course, extremely likely that I know a few and just don’t know it) and my closest personal relationship is with someone who is dating a FTM and refers to him as a transman (in texts).

                  I do attempt to keep up, I promise. Can you let me know your preferred language?

            3. SoCalHR*

              Yeah, actually her comment is expressing empathy for what some people go through. Perhaps you are taking issue to a particular term she use? in that case it would be beneficial to *gently* point out the error and not negate the fact that spirit of the comment was empathy.

              1. Piny1*

                ….right, so if an LW wrote in with some question about being gay and the comments section cluttered up with a bunch of comments about “normal marriage” as opposed to her marriage, or “biological motherhood” as opposed to her motherhood, or “normal women” as opposed to…lesbians…and just in general a bunch of strong implications that women are basically all straight, het-partnered, and conventionally feminine, then the appropriate response would be toy point out how empathetic everyone is trying to be? Or, oooh, how about if an LW wrote in about a lesbian coworker who got unreasonably angry aboutLike, some office bridal shower or something, and then a bunch of commenters came up with fanciful ways to use the bridal shower to taunt and aggravate her? Like, would this stuff start to indicate a certain level of insensitivity at some point? Would context start to become more clear?
                I don’t agree. I think that some of this stuff isn’t undoubtedly new to some people, but all the more reason to not treat it like a minor issue.

            4. Gayle Davidson-Durst*

              You’re going to have a lot more luck keeping would-be allies if you acknowledge the spirit of a supportive comment and, assuming good intentions, point out a problematic word to the person who made the comment.

              Loudly assuming the commenter is a bigot who intended to hurt you with their words, and without addressing them personally first, running to the moderator is not super helpful.

          4. Elizabeth H.*

            Are you in the US? I know that it’s not unheard of for men’s rooms not to have doors on the stalls, but I would say most do. I just asked my boyfriend what he thought the rate of doorlessness in professional buildings is. He said the rate is 0% and that you only see it in subway stations and malls. I have seen doorlessness in, like, clubs or bars only. I will say that there are a number of men’s rooms I’ve seen where there is only one urinal and one toilet, and the toilet is separated by a panel without a full door, so it’s like a stall but without a locking door (and usually the bathroom has a self-lock on the inside, but people don’t always lock it). But those restrooms are the kind that are more or less intended to be single use like in low traffic offices or restaurants where you typically don’t have enough public use to require multiple-stall bathrooms. Is that what you’re talking about?

            1. Cercis*

              Nope, specifically the men’s rooms in the City Hall in San Antonio didn’t have stall doors, 2-3 toilets and a bank of urinals. Nor did the ones in various attorney’s offices I’ve been in (I used to have to post flyers on the doors, and in the men’s rooms I had to post them on the walls).

              It’s one reason a lot of men I know don’t want gender neutral bathrooms – in their experience not a lot of stalls have doors (I’ve asked my kids and it holds true in their high school too). It’s not a good reason and quite frankly, their reasons are still rooted in homophobia and transphobia, and I don’t think adding doors will assuage their phobias, but it’s something they point out.

              2. Mad Baggins*

                Oh my goodness, if they are picturing stalls without doors I can see how gender-neutral bathrooms would seem like a bad idea. I’m picturing stalls with doors that go to the floor, and also sinks with soap and warm water, a makeup/mirror-only area, and like, a couch.

          5. General Ginger*

            Yeah, it’s. Not ideal. You kind of learn which are the OK bathrooms and which aren’t.
            I don’t know if this has changed since I last attended school in my Eastern European homeland (I currently live in the US), but none of the women’s room stalls in the schools I’ve been to there had doors, either.

          6. Gazebo Slayer*

            No DOORS on the stalls?

            W. T. F.

            That’s just inhumane. Especially for trans men. :-(

        8. RUKiddingMe*

          This is an issue. Basically what’s being said is, “I am unable to have periods, give birth, go through menopause…etc. therefore you can’t talk about it.”

          Periods, pregnancy, cramps, menopause are all things that are part and parcel to most biological women. Not all biological women and not all of those things, but they are not part of the reality of transwomen.

          By insisting that biological women stay silent and not talk about these things (or have products in our cars apparently) it is erasing our identities as women. This is problematic it is misogynistic at its core and an extension of patriarchy.

          This has to be a gender discrimination thing and I think LW needs to push back hard on this. Lots of biological women don’t use sanitary pads but I can’t imagine anyone trying to silence another woman in this way.

          1. General Ginger*

            Please don’t use the term “biological women”. It implies trans women aren’t real women, and is transphobic. The appropriate term for a non-transgender person is cisgender person.

            1. Kelly G*

              Look, I’ve scrolled past you saying this at least three other times. We are biological women. This is our biology. You can’t tell us not to use language to describe who we are. That is the primary way we have ever been able to push against our oppression as biological women. None of us consented to being called cis. That is what has been put on us. I am not cis, I am a woman. A biological woman. I bleed, I get pregnant. Those are biologically female realities. It’s not my job as a woman and has never been to hide my reality for someone else’s benefit. I need you to take a step back and realize you are asking women to remove language that is integral to our experience because you may find it, or someone may find it, offensive; this is not a word we use to harm others, it is a descriptor of our reality. Much like OP 1 who is being told to erase all evidence of her womanhood from sight, you are asking the same. I will never not use this term to describe my reality, because there are women & girls who are punished, assaulted, trafficked, sold, bought, & killed for being biologically female. Understand what you’re really doing when you attempt to police our language and listen to us when we say it is misogynist & harmful.

              1. Not a Mere Device*

                I am cis, and I genuinely don’t understand why you (and other women who have said this) are bothered by “cis” or “cisgender.”

                Yes, cisgender women are punished, assaulted, trafficked, and even killed for being women. So are trans women: they’re at risk both from general misogyny, and are punished, assaulted, and killed for being trans. A disgustingly large number of people think “she didn’t tell me she was trans” is moral and legal justification for men to assault and even murder their lovers.

                Also, the term “biological women” is imprecise and potentially misleading. Not everyone you’re including in that category can become pregnant; not all of them have two X and no Y chromosomes. (How many of your friends have been karyotyped?) I know I menstruate, and don’t like it. I don’t know whether I could become pregnant, only that I never have: does that mean I’m sterile, or that my contraception has always worked?

                Women like me used to be called unnatural: I’m queer, I’m an intellectual, I’m child-free by choice, I never wear makeup. I don’t benefit by narrowing the definitions of “female.”

                (As a science fiction fan, and an occasional literalist, I find myself thinking “biological female” as opposed to what–a robot? An artificial intelligence? A Shakespeare character, who has been played by both male and female actors? As far as I know, all of us here, of every gender, are biological intelligences.)

              2. Detective Amy Santiago*

                This comment is incredibly out of line and harmful.

                Biological sex = male or female
                Gender = man or woman

                Someone who identifies as a woman and has female sex organs is a cisgender woman. There is nothing remotely offensive about saying it that way.

    3. LittleRedRidingHuh?*

      The offended coworker is female, if I read that correctly, and this makes it even worse in my eyes. As women, we’re sadly used to getting the side eye from men, who can’t handle the fact a vagina is more than just a mythical creature. But for this to come from a fellow woman makes is ultimately so much sadder and it feels like the 50s and I’m growing curlers and losing my right to vote just from reading this…

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        I worked at a drugstore/pharmacy chain in high school and women would get really weird about menstrual products. They’d get embarrassed when they were buying them, act all furtive in the aisle and sometimes wait until no one else was around to pick up a product, or side eye women who had their products visible in their carts/baskets/arms and not covered up. And this was in the early 2000s. So I’m really not surprised.

        Side note, but a lot of people acted this way about toilet paper as well, which was just as baffling.

        1. Quoth the Raven*

          Right!? I can understand it from a teenager (I know I was a bit shy about people seeing me buying pads when I got my first few periods), but I’ve seen women a lot older than that being completely mortified about needing pads/tampons.

          1. MeridaAnn*

            This is something I’ve been consciously focusing on lately – not showing any sign of hesitation or embarrassment when I buy pads. Even if I feel awkward, I remind myself that it’s a normal hygiene product and it’s natural for me to need it and I’m not going to waste any extra effort hiding it under other items in my shopping cart or choosing self-checkout if I wouldn’t otherwise or any of the other silly things I’ve done before to hide the fact that *gasp* I need this very common, very necessary product. It still feels uncomfortable, but I am very intentionally reminding myself when I need to buy them that there’s nothing shameful about doing so.

            1. Specialk9*

              Yeah! I’ve had that same shameful buying tampon feeling, it clearly is something women are trained in by other women. It’s a sad misogyny and we should all push back.

            2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

              Same! And it’s definitely something to overcome, which is really frustrating to me — like come on brain, why are we feeling embarrassed about this? MOST WOMEN BETWEEN 10 AND 50 NEED TO BUY THESE THINGS!!

              1. Detective Amy Santiago*

                I went to the store after work yesterday to buy some and unashamedly also bought several bags of my favorite salty snack. Because yeah, I’m bloated and crampy and miserable and damn it, I’m going to enjoy a treat.

                1. Linzava*

                  Lmao,

                  During my time, you can always spot me at the drugstore. I’m the so not embarrassed woman with regulars and overnights next to the party sized peanut m&ms.

                2. General Ginger*

                  When I was younger, I would always feel somehow more self-conscious when I was buying the stereotypical chocolate or salty snack along with my supplies. Like, maybe if it’s just tampons along with my groceries, I could be stocking up, but if it’s with a bag of M&Ms, someone clearly needs those tampons NOW.

                3. Chinook*

                  Considering one drug store I used had coupons for half price (good) chocolate on the shelf of pads, I learned to embrace the awkwardness if it meant chocolate.

                4. Sweet Fancy Pancakes*

                  Several years ago I had a coworker come back from lunch-time shopping with 2 bags of mini snickers bars, a bottle of midol, and a box of tampons. She said the girl who checked her out looked at her stuff, and said “I know EXACTLY how you feel!”

            3. Whoa*

              This. I used to feel the same way, like it was some dirty secret. It was definitely reinforced when I had an ex who was absolutely mortified by the just the thought of menstruation. After we broke up I was so stressed about the implied shame that I forced myself to start talking about it and acknowledging it as a natural, normal thing that happens and it’s been so freeing. And to be totally honest, sometimes I have a lot of fun teaching my husband about “period facts” because he’s been living in ignorance his whole life. Now he’s a lot more understanding about the symptoms and doesn’t get embarrassed about picking up pads for me while he’s out at the store. It’s a win-win. No more shame, so much more understanding.

              1. Nic*

                My roommate and I have a great friendship, and I’ll give him “Reason number # you’re glad you’re not a woman” tidbits from time to time. Many of them occur on my period.

                You’re totally right about the feeling of freedom of being able to talk about that stuff.

                1. Detective Amy Santiago*

                  I once shared a house with another woman in her 30s, a teenage girl, and a guy in his 20s. As tends to happen, the three of us with utereses synced up our cycles. Male roommate kept track of said cycle and would often stop on the way home to pick up everyone’s favorite snack. He was one of the good ones.

                3. bonkerballs*

                  Yeah, one of my best guy friends and I went through a period of time when we only seemed to be able to make plans about once a month and for about four months it always ended up being that those plans happened to land on the 2nd day of my period (which is just the worst and I would complain about it endlessly). Now it’s just gotten to be a joke with us that one of his standard greetings whenever we see each other is to ask if I’m on my period.

            4. Julia*

              I don’t feel anything buying them, but the clerks always look so uncomfortable, especially the men.

              1. CMart*

                I’ve obviously been lucky, but I’ve never had a cashier look anything but vaguely bored with their life when ringing up my purchases–whether they be menstrual products, Plan B, or even that time I had a cart full of alcohol and ice cream for a party I was hosting along with a pregnancy test. I was actually looking forward to that purchase but alas, I’m surrounded by professionals.

                1. Kathlynn*

                  There are only a few things I’m uncomfortable ringing up. And that’s 90% on me. 9% on I don’t know what to say and 1% on a coworker who buys his condoms at work. (he’s bought them often enough he should just go to a store before hand and buy one of the large boxes before hand, rather then at 2am. But making me uncomfortable is better then unprotected sex, so what ever). One of the reasons is that we sell things that make “have a good day” seem awkward to say, like condoms or pregnancy tests (and a couple types of lube and a vibrator. At a gas station). Otherwise, I’m just well shy? about these thing when not talking about them in abstract. And I don’t judge my customers for buying them.

                2. Julia*

                  I guess the difference is that I live in Japan, and the poor clerks now have to not only interact with a foreigner, there’s also a culture of wrapping menstrual products and pregnancy tests into extra brown bags so no one can see them through the flimsy plastic shopping bags, and I just go “don’t need that, don’t need a bag” and throw them into my cotton shopper.

                3. Gazebo Slayer*

                  *giggles at “have a nice day” to someone buying condoms, lube, or a vibrator*

                  Wait, a vibrator at a gas station?! The “convenience” stores where I live don’t even sell pads or tampons.

                4. Quoth the Raven*

                  @Gazebo Slayer: I once had someone tell me to “Enjoy your day!” just as I was stepping out of a particular kind of shop with my boyfriend. It made me both laugh helplessly and lose all my cool.

                5. Mad Baggins*

                  @Julia One time at the store, I noticed they had kindly pre-brown-bagged all the feminine hygiene products in the whole aisle… As if there was something shameful about it just sitting on the shelf!
                  Obviously I bought the wrong thing by accident, since I couldn’t identify what the heck I was buying!

            5. Flower*

              It helps others to do this too. I was never too awkward about it (my parents tried to raise me not to be), but going to a women’s college that made an effort to make it clear that this was no big deal eliminated the remainder (only time I feel tentative these days is when my fiance’s conservative parents are visiting). There were different menstrual supplies available for purchase anywhere things were sold (coffee shop had tampons and diva cups on the counter) and every year there was one week with daily programming dedicated to menstruation and one week with daily programming dedicated to sex (the activity) of all sorts. At this point I’m about halfway between refusing to be embarrassed about menstruation, birth control, and sex, and forgetting I’m supposed to be embarrassed about those things.

              1. Flower*

                Oh yeah bras. I forget so much that bras are supposed to be embarrassing that I forget it probably goes on the list of things to be awkward about. I don’t throw all this in people’s faces… I it forget it’s supposed to be awkward when it does come up.

              2. Whoa*

                I had a coworker a few years ago who was struggling to figure out how to talk to her pre-teen daughter about her period and what to expect when it came. She wanted to be open and honest without overloading her, and she told me that it was a Big Deal because when she was young, her mother referred to it as “The Curse.” It gave her some serious shame issues until she was old enough to realize that it wasn’t actually a curse.

                1. Flower*

                  Yeah that sucks. There is no need for shame – honestly, that gets in the way of dealing with problems with periods. My period is a bit of a curse, but that’s because my body does all sorts of awful things (from sleep issues and increased levels of my chronic pain to menstrual migraines and constant nausea) – but that all started after a few years of unproblematic periods, and if I’d thought of periods as a curse generally, I think I wouldn’t have so quickly sought hormonal birth control to manage my new menstrual symptoms, because it’d be shameful to talk about and I may not have even realized it wasn’t normal.

                2. Merida Ann*

                  That’s so sad. My mom said that her mother never even had an actual conversation with her – she just left a package of pads outside her bedroom after noticing spotting in the laundry. So my mom always wanted to make sure I knew I could talk to her about it, which I am certainly grateful for.

                3. Rikki Tikki Tarantula*

                  I’m very glad I didn’t have a daughter because I’ve had horrifying menstrual issues all my life (cramps so bad I’d pass out, spent a good year teetering on the brink of needing a blood transfusion – had a hysterectomy about a decade ago and it was the greatest thing to ever happen to me). It would be extremely difficult for me to call it anything but The Curse. Not something to be ashamed of but something to be dreaded.

                4. Kendra*

                  My mom planned ahead and made sure there was a supply of pads available to us (my twin sister and I) under the sink and that we knew how to use them. Then she bought me a present when I actually started mine. I was still embarassed, but I think she handled it well.

            6. Emi.*

              me: *buying pads*
              male clerk: Do you want a bag?
              me: No, thank you.
              male clerk: Uhhhh *blushes*
              me: HAVE A NICE DAY

            7. Agent Veronica*

              One time I had to make an early morning drugstore run for tampons, laxative, painkillers and roach traps. The guy at checkout asked how I was doing. I said, “I’m buying all this at 6 am. How do you think I’m doing?” I didn’t really say it to be funny, but we both cracked up and laughed until we had tears in our eyes. Since then I’ve never bothered being embarrassed!

              2. bonkerballs*

                A few weeks ago I bought three boxes of tampons (different sizes for different days), a milky way, and four bottles of wine at 7 in the morning and my cashier, who was a boy who looked like he way maybe 16, just looked at me and asked if I needed a hug.

              3. So long and thanks for all the fish*

                That’s so great! I mean, it must have been an utterly awful morning, but what a great story!

            8. Liz T*

              Also: not being coy about asking a friend for a tampon. (I had too many experiences in HS/college of pulling a girl aside to ask discreetly only for my dude friends to leap in with “secrets secrets are no fun!!!” So now I just ask.)

              1. tangerineRose*

                Did your dude friends change their minds about wanting to know once they knew? I’ve noticed some guys are really uncomfortable about the whole thing, and for other guys, it’s no big deal (which is appreciated).

            9. Chalupa Batman*

              Having a teenage daughter has turned me around on this, because I’ve had to actively model not being weird about talking about and purchasing feminine hygiene products. It’s nothing to be ashamed of, and it turns a 30 second conversation (“Mom, I’m out of pads”) into a 20 minute ummm/errrr fest, but I had to walk the talk. I didn’t want her (or my son, for that matter) to see me using euphemisms when my husband asked why I needed to go to the store right now or trying to rush my tampons through the checkout. It makes me sad that people are still making scenes over this when I thought breaking that chain would make my daughter’s life easier.

          2. Annie Moose*

            I used to be quite nervous about it, and then I realized that I don’t actually care. At all. Ooooh, I’m buying pads and tampons! So is everyone else in the world. Get over it.

          3. Reba*

            I am reminded of a time, age eleven, when I wept with mortification when I had to tell a teacher that I had to be late to class because I had to go get pads out my locker. No, not paper… MAXI PADS! aaaahhhh! I had had a major leakage during the afternoon mass. What a mess I was!

            I would be infuriated if the people around me as an adult were like, “yes, that is how you should actually feel about periods, they are extremely shameful”!

          4. Not So NewReader*

            I can remember back in the 60s women talking about pads being in brown unlabeled packages at the drug store. You would go over and whisper, “I need a package of sanitary napkins.” The clerk would get it for you.

            Can I just say, the UNmarked package really defeated it’s own purpose. Everyone knew what came in unmarked packages.

            While society as a whole is much more mature about all this now, we still have people who remember those days. And we still have people who were RAISED by folks who remember those days. I remember in the 80s telling myself, “Com’on, Self, throw the package in the grocery cart with the rest of the groceries and screw what everyone else thinks.” It did take a deliberate thought to pull myself through the purchase because of invalid reasons I had been taught.

            I was very radical. I kept my pads in the bathroom where it was handy for me. My mother hid hers in their bedroom.

        2. SusanIvanova*

          Reminds me of those late-night ads that start with “you’ll never be ashamed to shop in the incontinence aisle again”. I have to eyeroll – I shop in that aisle when my 70-year-old mom comes to visit, and I’m sure the only thing the cashier thinks about when they see the package is “where’s the barcode”.

          1. Myrin*

            Ha! I started working parttime as a shelf stocker in a local drugstore a couple months ago and the “cotton” aisles are “my” aisles, meaning, I’m responsible for stocking the toilet paper, kitchen towels, tampons, pads, q-tips, tissues, and, yes, the incontinence products.

            I literally could not care less about the people who meander up and down next to me looking for the right adult diapers. In fact, I’m very happy when people buy them because we somehow get so many of them some days and they take up so much space in the warehouse!

            The only time I kinda roll my eyes is when people make a big production out of how they absolutely aren’t the ones needing these products, nono, these are for my aunt who happens to have exactly my size and shape. I mean, I really don’t care if they really are for your aunt or you’re just embarrassed and use your conveniently shaped aunt as an excuse but maybe stop halting my work for fifteen minutes making a fuss? Doesn’t happen often, fortunately. On the other hand, I really loved the formidable and robust older lady yesterday who asked for my advice and then, when neither I nor my boss could tell her exactly how long a certain brand of incontinence pads is (weirdly, not all of them have measurements upfront), said “You know what, I’mma buy these no matter what so now let’s see how big they are!” and proceeded to tear the package apart and unfold one of the pads. We definitely know how big they are now!

              1. Mookie*

                I would love to be somebody’s conveniently shaped aunt someday. That’s like the best job ever. Your sibling’s kid has a problem? Blammo! Let me shapeshift into something that solves it.

                Solicitors barking at their door? Allow me to become a door-shaped privacy screen until they bugger off.

                Bully giving them a hard time at recess? Watch me transform into Nelson Muntz, wielding a camcorder and ordering them to stop hitting themselves as I use their tiny baby fist against them.

                Stubbed a toe? Gape awestruck at my ability to… become a new toe?

                The possibilities are limited, but (slightly) amusing!

                1. Gazebo Slayer*

                  Shapeshifting is a very, very useful power given sufficient imagination. Which you obviously have.

          2. Liane*

            As someone who did retail customer service and cashiering, I can guarantee that I wasn’t thinking anything other than “where’s the barcode?” no matter the item. Because I swear those things moved! lol

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Some retail establishments micromanage their clerks so badly that the absolute furthest thing from the clerk’s mind is which items the customer is purchasing. The clerk is more apt to be thinking, “Did I smile enough? Did I suggest a sale item? Did I invite the customer to return?” And 27 other useless things that they must do or be fired on the spot.” Pads, condoms, incontinence products, etc, are the very, very last thing on their minds.

        3. Nervous Accountant*

          That is so funny this convo comes up. I’m not shy about buying them but at one point I kept a box of them under my desk (open plan office). A few times I was a little self conscious about it and covered it up with a bag. It was tricky to discreetly put one in my makeup bag through the day. Just not something I really think about too deeply anymore.

        4. Kelly L.*

          Yep, when I first saw this early this morning and hadn’t read the comments, I pictured my grandmother, of the “everything in the bathroom gets a crocheted cover-up” stripe.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          How does that make a difference? The LW is not having her period AT the coworker.

          1. Luna*

            I think it makes a difference because it helps explain WHY this complaint was allowed to get as far as it did- not one, but two other people signed off on it! Clearly they are terrified of accusations of transphobia. It also matters because it changes how the LW should approach the situation now. She should 100% push back against this (even more so BECAUSE the coworker is trans, having that kind of complaint of harassment against someone in a protected class in the LW’s file is pretty serious) but should definitely not engage of any deliberate displays of sanitary products as some kind of joke, as that will only help the coworker and hurt the LW. The LW should feel confident that what she did is in no way discrimination against her coworker and she needs to make that very clear to HR; and if necessary point out to HR that the discrimination here was in fact directed at the LW.

            3. tangerineRose*

              Good point. To be fair, the LW should definitely not engage of any deliberate displays of sanitary products as some kind of joke no matter who was complaining – there’s no point in making the situation worse. As it is, the LW is clearly not being treated well. If the LW started doing something like this, it would muddy the issue.

        3. Screenwriter*

          It makes literally ZERO difference. Why should it? In fact, if the coworker went to all that trouble to transition to being a woman, what the f** is her problem with a woman’s normal and natural toiletry products? The whole thing is utterly absurd, and disgraceful.

        4. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          It only makes a difference if there’s a backstory relating to transphobia. If it’s sinply that the coworker is trans, then it’s not reasonable for that coworker to police the parking lot and suggest that OP’s bag of toiletries was “offensive.” (Frankly, the fact that there were other supplies lends itself to the conclusion that there’s no underlying transphobia issues specifically related to fem hygiene products.)

        6. Banana Pants*

          No it doesn’t. Gender identity is irrelevant when the coworker is out in the parking lot peering into colleagues’ cars and making complaints about TOILETRIES IN BAGS in said cars. What’s truly absurd is that HR wrote up the OP rather than telling the nosy coworker to mind her own business and stop making frivolous complaints.

        7. Xay*

          No it doesn’t. No one, regardless of gender, should be reporting people to HR for having sanitary pads in a bag in their car. And HR should not write up anyone for having sanitary pads in a bag on their car.

        8. Turner*

          I’m trans and it doesn’t make any difference at all. The OP has every right to keep menstrual products in her car, in her desk, on her desk, in her purse, in her pockets, etc.

        9. boo bot*

          It’s not like trans women can’t be officious busybodies! She looked in a grocery bag in the back seat of the OP’s car and complained *to their boss* about what was in it. That’s obnoxious and weird.

          Full spectrum of humanity in every demographic! (Step right up!)

        10. Pollygrammer*

          Maybe, MAYBE it would have been, eh, almost acceptable for the coworker to ask politely if menstrual products could be kept out of her view at work.

          To deliberately snoop in someone’s car? To try to get somebody in trouble for it? HELL NO.

        11. President Porpoise*

          I think anyone who is using their genitals – regardless of whether they identify with them or they have been surgically corrected – to browbeat someone else into behaving the way that they believe they should act is reprehensible, full stop.

    4. JamieS*

      The complaint came from a woman and considering how woman-skewed HR is (I think around 75% of people in HR are women but could be wrong) I’m guessing OP was most likely written up by women as well. Yeah, men shouldn’t treat nobody this way but it doesn’t sound like that’s what happened here. Although a man complaining does make more sense so I’m curious what the other woman’s problem was. Is she menopausal and bitter? Overly prim and proper who thinks feminine projects are obscene? Just a jerk?

        1. Specialk9*

          Yeah I don’t know any menopausal women who are like, hey, wasn’t bleeding smelly blood for a quarter of my year fun? Man I miss it. Those lucky bleeders need to be taken down a peg or two.

            1. krysb*

              I have PCOS, and part of my treatment is medically-induced periods. Like, that wasn’t the part of the problem that bothered me.

              1. Detective Amy Santiago*

                I’m at the point where I am going to say to my doctor “please can we just rip it out? I’m not using it for the intended manufacturer’s use so it just makes me miserable.”

                1. NotMyRealName*

                  Don’t be so hasty. Perimenopause (hot flashes and periods!) and menopause both have plenty of suck to them.

                2. tangerineRose*

                  My periods have generally been OK, considering the whole leaking blood thing, and I’m still looking forward to not having them anymore.

                3. MA*

                  NotMyRealName, you might have offended people who don’t/won’t go through perimenopause and menopause. Gasp! *rolleyes*

        2. Lora*

          Can assure you that menopause, once the “flooding” part was over and everything had well and truly stopped, was a HUGE relief. Don’t know any women who really miss the hassle and mess once the symptoms are gone and it’s over.

          You know who was sad about it – men I dated who still were hoping for more kids and weren’t interested in adopting.

          1. AnotherJill*

            Yep. Once I stopped wanting to snarl at people because I felt like my body temperature was twice the normal level, it was very nice not to deal with it all.

          2. Decima Dewey*

            Postmenopausal for over a decade now. I certainly don’t miss the “guess if you’re going to have a period this month, and, if so, when and how bad” moments.

            It’s possible for trans people to be discriminated against and also be complete glassbowls. And workplaces to handle trans matters badly. One transwoman in my library system was suing a slew of people. One of the administrators she was suing asked my then boss, a gay man, to testify that he’d never experienced discrimination from Administrator. Which would do nothing to prove or disprove that Administrator had or had not discriminated against the transwoman.

          3. Rikki Tikki Tarantula*

            I had a hysterectomy for menstrual problems about a decade ago, and I still have nightmares about Aunt Flo coming back for a visit. I’ll be walking through the menstrual products aisle at the drugstore and say a little thank-you prayer that I don’t have to deal with that horror show any more.

        3. JamieS*

          Yeah, that’s predominantly a woman who’s upset over no longer being able to have kids so overreacts to signs of female fertility like feminine products.

          1. Jessie the First (or second)*

            I feel like that is more a cliche about women and how we are supposed to feel, rather than an actually common sentiment among real women.

            1. JamieS*

              I’ve never heard of any such cliche nor did I say that’s how women are “supposed” to feel. I don’t know why you all are apparently taking offense over absolutely nothing.

          3. Max from St. Mary's*

            Think about flipping it–those young women are so envious and bitter because they have to buy tampons and birth control, and older women get to flaunt their freedom…does that sound OK?

        1. Lynca*

          I had other people’s moms tell me off for having tampons when I was a teen. They weren’t for ‘good girls.’ To which I rolled my eyes and thus was not invited back. Win/Win in my book.

          1. Detective Amy Santiago*

            I was a dancer so tampons were commonplace among my peer group as a teen. People are ridiculous.

          2. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

            I ran track and cross country in high school, and after my first attempt to run a 5K wearing a maxi pad, I decided that tampons were the way to go, and I never looked back. The idea that tampons are “bad” is one that needs to die.

          3. Environmental Navy Wife (previously Environmental Gone Public Health Gone Back Environmental)*

            My own mother wouldn’t let me use tampons. I was in gymnastics – it is incredibly difficult not being super, super self conscious with a giant bulky pad all up in there and attempting to do any sort of routine.

            My grandma stepped in and bought tampons, then calmly told my mother to stop being (and I quote) “a moron, for f*ck’s sake!”. Thankfully my mom’s aversion to tampons didn’t get applied to my younger sisters, who are also in sports.

          4. Mockingjay*

            That was my mom. “Good girls” don’t wear tampons. Good girls also don’t use birth control to control unbelievably horrible cramps. The kind where she had to pick me up from school EVERY month from age 13 until I went to college. Instead, “Here’s a hot water bottle, dear, and some [complete ineffective] Midol.”

            (But she was on the pill forever and used tampons herself.)

          5. many bells down*

            My mom was shocked when I told her my daughter got her period and I showed her how to use a tampon. “But won’t that break her hymen?”

            Well, mom, I don’t plan to let her date anyone who cares about hymens so it won’t matter.

        2. JamieS*

          In my opinion? They’re not. In some other people’s opinions? Different people find any number of things obscene the least of which is feminine products.

        3. smoke tree*

          Obviously she should have wrapped them in inconspicuous brown paper, then sealed them in a wooden crate, then set the crate on fire, then thrown it into the sea.

    5. alsoanon*

      This is the sort of sentiment that bothers me on this site. The fact that posters here reflexively assume it must be a “Man” and that the LW needs to find a “Woman” in order to help them. Is it assumed that all men are completely oblivious to the fact that menstrual products are not a big deal on this site and that all women will be sympathetic? How far do we really want to go with this subtle but very apparent sexism/bigotry (pick whatever word you want to use so we don’t get derailed by parsing terminology).

      1. Elizabeth H.*

        I see your point but I will say it’s an easy misapprehension to make. There have been at least two (three maybe? I can’t recall details of a third) letters where the letter writer either had menstrual products, or had mentioned her period, and was disciplined or had consequences in some way for it, and in the comments for those letters (and the comments on this post) there were a ton of anecdotes from commenters who have had similar experiences. In virtually all of those cases the supervisor who had censured the letter writer was a man and the letter writer was a woman, although I will say that there are also a bunch of examples here of women who have expressed shock or disgust or censure at visibility of menstrual products – just not in a “disciplined at work” way.

      2. Delphine*

        Many of us have a vast collection of experiences of men who are, at some level, put off by mensuration and menstrual products. Periods are a significant part of how men discriminate against women. It’s not bigoted to point that out.

        1. alsoanon*

          I am not contesting that men period shaming women is discriminatory. I am pointing out the trend of AAM and the posters to automatically assume in that situation and many other similar situations that the person engaged in that behavior must automatically be a man. More troubling, it’s implied that the LW needs to seek out another woman because only women are capable of seeing the absurdity of writing an employee up for having menstrual products visible in their car. I don’t think the LW needs to find a woman in HR to go to in order to resolve this. She clearly needs to find someone in HR that she can reason with. I am not sure how much contact with the people in HR but it’s not a stretch to assume that she knows who she might be able to reason with man or woman.

          1. Anion*

            Especially when the letter specifically said the complainer was a “she,” and especially when the assumption is incorrect a large portion of the time.

            And yes, I know what you mean, coupled with the also-seemingly-reflexive “If a woman did something bad it’s not her fault and we make excuses, if a man did something bad he’s obviously scum/if a man victimized a woman she should stand up for herself vehemently, because go girl! but if a woman victimizes a man he should try to understand her reasoning and we shouldn’t condemn her for her behavior and he probably did something to deserve it anyway.”

            In this letter, the women in HR and the female boss were happy to throw the LW under a bus and punish her to prove their “progressive” bona fides, and there are still women in this discussion here (not many, thankfully, but still) who are agreeing that it would be wrong of the LW to say anything to her coworkers or do any of the funny pad/tampon jokes suggested, because, again, the feelings of the ridiculous nosy jerk of a complainer are more important than those of the LW. It makes me sad.

          2. Mad Baggins*

            I mean, based on allllll the anecdotal evidence shared here in the past on this topic, and the fact that women are more likely to menstruate and have an in-depth knowledge about periods than men, I think upon reading just the letter (not the update about the coworker’s/HR’s gender) it’s sensible to assume that the period-shamer would be a man, and that a woman would be more likely to be sympathetic/understanding. Clearly, as in this case, there are exceptions to this and of course there are many men (some of them doctors!) who know a lot about menstruation. But if the coworker was mad that OP had jock straps or penis-related medical products (?? I can’t even think of an appropriate equivalent, that is how little I know) I would assume coworker is female, and suggest OP talk to a male HR rep who might more easily understand. It’s an assumption, but it’s not baseless.

            I can’t speak to a larger trend of automatically assuming anyone who has harmed a female LW must be a man, because I have not noticed this phenomenon and that is not my experience with most of the comments on this site.

      3. Jessie the First (or second)*

        “Is it assumed that all men are completely oblivious to the fact that menstrual products are not a big deal”

        No. Most men I know don’t care one way or the other about periods, are not embarrassed or awkward or mad or anything about the sight of pads or tampons, and don’t think for two seconds about a woman going to the bathroom to get a pad. They do not care.

        But of the people who have ever made an issue of it to me? 100% men. As the comments note above, there are *also* plenty of women who view it is embarrassing or shameful (particularly of older generations). But in my personal experience (yes, anecdotes or not data, of course) , though the vast majority of people in general don’t care, the ones who do care have been men. That does not mean “all men are completely oblivious” in any way, shape or form.

  4. Yvette*

    Words fail me as well, other than agreeing with Alison and everyone else. Oh, and to beg you to provide an update if you do push back.

    2. MA*

      Agreed. It’s ridiculous that a woman was shamed and written up for having a working uterus. I hope the OP can make HR and her boss realize that they were completely out of order for discriminating like this.

  5. Aphrodite*

    Note that the nosy co-worker mentioned by OP #1 was another woman. So a woman took offense at another woman’s personal hygiene product. That boggles the mind even more.

      1. LouiseM*

        Maybe she is a huge diva evangelist and was offended that the coworker used the environmentally-unfriendly maxi pad ;)

        2. Melody Pond*

          Ha! I’m totally an evangelist for cups and cloth pads (not the diva cup in particular, that’s my least favorite cup out there), and THIS would actually make some sense to me. Not that the complaining co-worker was uncomfortable with the menstrual products, but with the fact that they were disposable. :)

          1. namelesscommentator*

            +1ing the menstrual cup love (Diva Cup is mine of choice, though!) because the accidental cup evangelist life is real.

            1. LouiseM*

              One of the most uncomfortable nights of my life was when I was at a very very long dinner party, my period came early, and I discovered that every. other. guest. *and* our host all used diva cups. There was not a single tampon or pad in the whole house! That said, I do now use and love my mooncup!

              1. Quoth the Raven*

                That exact scenario is one of the reasons I always carry a pad/tampon on me even when I use a cup (Yuuki/MeLuna for me) — so I can honour the Girl Code.

                1. SusanIvanova*

                  Huh, I’ve still got a box of the things that I’ll (fingers crossed) never need again. I hadn’t thought of it before, but I should toss one in my purse for Girl Code emergencies.

                2. AvonLady Barksdale*

                  I haven’t had a regular period for several years (continuous bp) and I have a shelf stocked in the bathroom with tampons. I have a massive bag of pantyliners. No one has ever asked for one, but they are there! Last year I had a period, used about half of the bag of pads I bought, and made sure to keep several in my work bag because yes, you never know when you or someone else might need one.

                3. Flash Bristow*

                  Right. I don’t have periods but I keep a range of pads and tampons – including an incontinence pad – in my spare room, along with all the other stuff like new toothbrush, pants & socks, a travel card and local maps and takeaway menus. Stuff you might need if staying over unexpectedly. And the pads have been appreciated by friends, even just to cover them before they get to the shop to restock. People usually do restock without being asked so there’s now a good variety in there!

                  Anyway – the pads, tampons and incontinence pads are mostly free samples which you can send off for, so you only need to spend 30 seconds on a web form. No hassle. Why not have these things in case people do need them?

                  I can’t have periods – or children – but I’m not exactly offended by those who can or do, even tho I’m not fond of kids in general.

                  I just can’t imagine why HR took this complaint seriously. Are they related to or having a relationship with the complainant? That’s been the answer in the past when HR were way off base.

                  I just… Boggle. Poor OP #1.

                4. Susan Sto Helit*

                  Mine are in an open-topped glass jar on the shelf behind the toilet, in full view.

                  It’s convenient for me, it’s convenient for any of my female guests who find themselves caught out, and I figure it doesn’t do my male guests any harm to have something to look at whilst they’re standing there. My bathroom, so you can learn to deal.

                  Glass jars are also convenient because you can see at a glance when the stash needs restocking. And those pastel-coloured wrappers look a lot nicer than a cardboard box.

                5. KHB*

                  Once when I was a teenager, I got my period unexpectedly while I was staying at my grandmother’s house. Rather than ask someone to take me shopping, I searched the guest bathroom, and fortunately found a 3-pack of maxi pads. I have no idea how long they’d been there – the package helpfully specified that they were “for the lady of the house.” But they worked well enough. I used them all and never said a word to anyone. Thanks, grandma, for honoring the Girl Code.

              2. namelesscommentator*

                I feel so justified in the pouch of tampons I keep despite not having used a single one in 6 years.

                1. On a pale mouse*

                  I guess I had the opposite reaction. My decision to have a hysterectomy was not without some angst. But I love not having periods and I really enjoyed throwing all that stuff out. It was like a little party in my bathroom. I don’t really have people over so I didn’t think about keeping any. Just “Yes! I never need these again! Woo!” (BTW, I didn’t literally trash them. I gleefully threw them in a bag but then they went to a women’s shelter.)

              3. Gaz112*

                Being a bloke, I realise that it’s nothing whatsoever to do with me, but mooncup is a really clever name!

              4. T3k*

                This is why I keep a box of disposables pads in the house, though I fully switched to cloth pads several years ago.

                2. Detective Amy Santiago*

                  @SpecialK9

                  Yes, they are generally machine washable. I used them for a while and then got lazy, but they are nice for home use. I found that using them out and about was awkward because then I had to carry around soiled pads.

                4. T3k*

                  Yep, completely washable :) I use a small wet/dry bag and can easily carry several pads in it (the pads I have can fold up into a small square).

              5. Annie Moose*

                Being stuck at a social event without necessary pads/tampons is one of my worst fears. Some of my favorite people in the world are women who I’m almost entirely certain no longer needed pads themselves, but still had some in their bathroom for guests! They likely don’t even know, but boy, am I grateful to them.

                Read something recently from a (cis) guy who kept pads in his bathroom for guests who needed them–it was such a lovely thing for someone to think of who never has and presumably never will use them!

                1. Future Homesteader*

                  My mom hasn’t needed a pad since, oh, about the time I started using them, and even though I lived across the country for years, she always had a supply for me. It’s one of the many reasons I still think of her house as my home (even though I’m married and own my own home now. I refer to going to either place as going home).

                2. Susan Sto Helit*

                  A friend of mine was recently caught out during the ‘physical activity’ part of a hen do. You’d think that in a group of 20 women the odds would be pretty good that someone had something on them, but we’d all left our handbags back at the hotel so one discreet whisper turned into another…and another. By the time someone managed to produce a tampon I think EVERYONE knew what was going on, including the one guy present. It would have been easier just to make a loud request at the beginning and save all the muttering…

              6. JennyFair*

                I use a cup, and have only sons, but when you have teenage boys, you also have teenage girls in your house, and so you a) keep disposable products around and b) show your sons where they are stored. Fortunately, that shelf was often stocked by samples I got in the mail, which meant a variety.

        3. many bells down*

          Oooh she’d really hate me then. I’ve got a physical problem that precludes both tampons and cups. Basically anything that goes up in there ain’t gonna work. Pads until menopause for me (which please will be any day now Crone willing).

          3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

            Yep.

            I need pad backup even when I’m able to use a cup, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        4. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Reasons This Would Make Sense*

          1. LW works for Tampax
          2. LW works for Cloth Pad company
          3. LW works for the guy who created that vaginal glue stuff

          *even then it doesn’t really make sense but I’m grasping.

            1. Mookie*

              [Don’t read further if you genuinely don’t want to know]

              Not just any vaginal glue. This vaginal glue you can piss away, but is seemingly impervious to menstrual tissue and sweat.

              Also, the dude what patented it called it “lip stick” (so women can understand and covet it, I guess) and the product logo is the very definition of cutesy, patronizing grossness, even people who say “va-jay-jay” without irony would find it ridiculous. He also seemed quite angry he had to “invent” it all, but that lazy broads were too emotional and distracted to have done so so he felt he had to step in and save them from themselves.

              1. Thlayli*

                So you glue your lips together and all the blood etc stays in, and then when you pee it all comes out at once?

                I think that is genius! I’m thinking especially of women in developing countries that don’t have access to pads or tampons or clean water to wash menstrual cups.

                1. Bird*

                  Sorry, but are you serious? Because this product comes with a whole host of problems, not the least of which is that genital anatomy doesn’t really work that way for many people.

                2. Thlayli*

                  If it works it sounds great. I obviously have no idea if it would work or not, since I’ve never seen the product in real life and my only knowledge of it is what I read in 2 mins this morning. I’d assume that it could be used on the actual vaginal opening also, for women whose labias are not big enough to cover the entire vagina. Otherwise it would be kind of pointless. But even if it only works for big-labia’d women, it would still be beneficial to them.

                  Do you have any idea how big a problem lack of access to sanitary items is in the third world? It sounds to me like a single stick of this glue could work for months, if it actually does work as claimed. So yes, I am serious about welcoming anything that has potential to improve the situation of women in third world countries.

                3. sosoftness*

                  I feel like the amount of pulling and chafing on the skin as a woman goes about her daily life would be nothing short of horrific, if this were real. Which it isn’t.

                4. Thlayli*

                  Worse than the chafing from the crusty blood dried into pubic hair and dirty rags that many poor girls have to use in these countries?

                  I see that is it a parody though and doesn’t exist, but I still think it would be an awesome idea if it was made and worked as described.

                5. Kathlynn*

                  Increased urinary tract infections increase toxic shock syndrom and probably other issues from having your labia and butt glued together. Because you would have to glue from you clit to your tail bone up. and that’s not safe.

                6. Bird*

                  @Thlayli: Wow, condescending much? Of course I understand how difficult it is to menstruate in the developing world: it’s only been a major topic of feminist activism for my entire life. But gluing your genitalia shut for any length of time isn’t actually a solution, and I imagine that there would be difficulties akin to what women who undergo infibulation suffer. Especially since the inventor of this product is a chiropractor (and not a medical doctor). Furthermore, he appears to not understand that menstrual blood is a liquid, just as urine is, which renders the whole product useless. It’s not designed for the vaginal opening, just the labia, also. That whole area is delicate and sensitive. I don’t even want to think about what it would do to the skin and surrounding tissues.

                7. Thlayli*

                  @Bird, I just read back over both our comments. It’s kind of amusing actually that you think I’M the one being condescending.

                8. Anion*

                  FWIW, Thayli, you have every right to think this product sounds great and like something you would use or that other women might find helpful; everyone is different, and I don’t understand why you’re being yelled at and “corrected” for being interested in it. It doesn’t sound like my cup of tea, but neither does the diva cup, frankly, and I don’t think anyone is “wrong” or should be berated for liking those, either.

                9. Thlayli*

                  Thanks Anion. I suspect the reason I’m being yelled at is either
                  1 people dislike me because of previous disagreements
                  2 people think I should dislike the product because the inventor is a jerk.
                  I don’t think I personally would use it (though I’d prefer it to a mooncup which is really not my cup of tea) but in theory if it existed and worked as described I do think it would be great for people without access to clean water / tampons / pads. At least it would be better than what they have at the moment.

                  I also realise I haven’t replied to Kathlynn yet. This product claims to work if you glue your labia together with it. Did you know the “normal” range of labia minora (inner lips) is up to 10cm long? For many women glueing the labia minora together would be all that’s needed. I already mentioned that it would probably need to also work on the actual vaginal opening, because for many women the labia minora are not sufficiently long enough. I see no reason you would need to glue “from your clit to your tailbone” as you say. Very few women have such wide gaping vaginas that the actual vaginal opening couldn’t be pushed together.

                  Toxic shock syndrome also takes hours and hours to develop – it’s why you shouldn’t leave tampons in for too long. If this product were to last as long or less than a regular tampon then it’s not long-lasting enough to cause toxic shock syndrome. It probably wouldn’t be suitable for overnight use, but neither are tampons (or presumably mooncups).

                10. Mad Baggins*

                  This is really concerning. I don’t think gluing skin together in the most sensitive part of your body is going to create a water-tight seal? That would be easily removed by some liquids but not others? And wouldn’t interfere with movement in any way? That sounds really uncomfortable and dangerous.

              2. Specialk9*

                He really said that last part out loud, IIRC. It was this beautifully offensive flower of misogyny.

                2. Thlayli*

                  I just googled it. The comment he made was hilarious. “Women are distracted by their period 25% of the time” lol.

                  But in all sincerity I think it sounds like an excellent idea. No need to turn down a great idea that could actually improve the lives of millionw of women (assuming it works as described) just because the inventor is an eejit.

                3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

                  Thlayli… please tell me you’re just forgetting a /sarcasm tag here. This is a TERRIBLE idea.

                4. Thlayli*

                  Countess if you have some information that explains why it’s a terrible idea, im totally open to hearing it. I think it sounds great, if it actually works as described.

                5. Oryx*

                  Off the top of my head, urine comes from a different hole, there’s no guarantee it’s going to go where you need it to in order to unsdtick the glue.

                  Even then, what if you don’t have enough urine? So the blood just kind of continues to build up inside?

                6. fposte*

                  @Oryx–alternatively, if you pee a lot, that sounds like a lot of gluing during the day. And I’m not sure I’d trust my ability to glue things enough to prevent heavy flow leaking, given that I can’t even get an airtight seal on a Ziploc bag.

                7. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

                  Okay, it’s pretty obvious that you haven’t got a clue about anatomy in that area, so let’s put it this way: does gluing your asshole shut sound like a good solution for the need to poop?

                9. Thlayli*

                  Haha countess thats hilarious. I haven’t a clue about anatomy of vaginas. Good one. What a humourous comment and an amazing argument.

                  If There was a type of glue that could be used to hold the anus closed and kept faeces in, did no damage to the user, and could be easily removed when it was time to let the faeces out, I have absolutely no doubt that it would be used by many people with faecal incontenence.

                  Have you heard of butt plugs? They’re not just for sex you know! Lots of faecally incontinent people do in fact use butt plugs to stop faeces escaping, and simply pull them out when it’s time to let the faeces out. Not much of a difference from glueing your anus shut when you think about it.

                  Anyway, other commenters have posted above that the vaginal glue product is in fact a joke and doesn’t actually exist, so this conversation is kind of pointless.

                  If a magic glue could be found that held labia and vagina together to keep in blood, was easily removed when it was time to let the blood out, that had no negative consequences and side effects, and was cheap, I would absolutely think it was a great idea.

              3. Alton*

                The description of the product made it sound like you were supposed to apply it to your skin like you would lipstick, which seems very unsanitary to me if you use the same stick of glue over a period of days or months.

                1. Thlayli*

                  You could wipe the dirty bit off though. The point is that it would mean you only bleed when you are already peeing – at a toilet facility. Needing access to a little bit of toilet roll a few times a day to wipe off the stick is better than needing a box of pads every month, or needing extremely clean water to wash something you are actually putting inside you (menstrual cup).

                2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

                  Thlayli…. no. Menstruation means constantly bleeding. The blood is being pushed out of the cervix. All you would be accomplishing would be storing up the already-discarded blood and uterine tissue near the vaginal opening (if you glue the vagina itself shut, in which case the likelihood of opening it via urine would be VERY LOW) or within the labial folds (if you glue the labia shut).

                  Plus, when you release all that blood, you’re still going to have a horrible mess to deal with. Listen to all the vulva-having people who are telling you how much this wouldn’t work.

                3. KHB*

                  @Thlayli: Of all the problems that limited access to extremely clean water can cause, hindering the use of reusable menstrual cups has got to be way down the list. I use a Divacup. You can take it out, empty it, and put it back in with or without wiping it a little. (I did this for years when I lived in a place where the sink was more than an arm’s length from the toilet.) When you’re done with it for the month, you can wash it with questionable water, since you’re leaving it to dry for three weeks, which is going to kill anything that’s on it. It has a smooth surface, which means it’s not going to harbor bacteria for very long.

                4. Thlayli*

                  Countess I have a Vulva. I’m a cis woman and I’ve given birth to two living children and had two natural miscarriages through my vagina. I’ve done perineal massage using a mirror. I’ve watched every episode of one born every minute so I’ve seen plenty of vulvas. I thought you were joking before when you said I didn’t have any idea of anatomy.

                  Many many women do have labia that could cover the entire vaginal opening, and if not as I said above this type of product would only make sense if if could also glue the vaginal opening together. Very few women have such gaping vaginas that they could not be pushed closed. Your comment about it “storing the blood and tissue inside the vaginal opening” is not in any way an argument against this concept. That’s exactly what tampons and diva cups do!

                  I also don’t get what’s hard about getting urine on the labia – pee on some toilet roll and wipe it! How hard was that!

                  “Once the blood comes out you’ve got a big mess to deal with” yeah – exactly. That’s the entire flipping point. You wait until you are at a toilet or whatever you have access to to release the mess. Given that this is the place that you release faeces and urine, I’m gonna assume that it’s also a safe place to release blood and clots. Much better than having it drop out constantly all day when you live in a country without access to clean pads.

                  I get that this is a joke product and doesn’t exist – probably because the magic glue that can hold in blood but not urine doesn’t actually exist, but the concept is flipping genius!

            2. mb13*

              Its most likely a prank as theres no actual way to contact the company and the guy has no prior social media history.

              1. Mookie*

                He has a patent (which means nothing, other than he paid his fee and submitted his material), is a real chiropractor working in a real practice, he joined Twitter in 2009, his facebook pre-dates the widespread 2017 interest in his “lip stick,” and he’s been involved in dubious pseudo-medical schemes before (like his “weight loss” program). Are you thinking of someone else?

              1. KHB*

                Oh man, I’d forgotten all about the best part – that he’d called the thing Mensez. As in, “Men sez you ladies are doing it wrong!”

      2. Just Employed Here*

        Well, I would, if complaining co-worker was the one asking. I mean, I wouldn’t want her to complain about me again.

        I’m curious how that complaint was even worded. “Co-worker has completely legitimate product in her personal vehicle. I sneaked a peak into the car, and now I’m offended.”?!?

        1. Irene Adler*

          I’d file a complaint that this woman was peering into my vehicle’s windows. She might be intent on breaking into my vehicle. That’s just as valid as the maxi pad complaint. And maybe the complainer was caught doing just that and had to come up with a reason for peering into the vehicle’s windows. Best defense is a good offence sort of thing.

        2. Kathleen_A*

          That *is* a really good question. I mean, how would such a “complaint” sound? Everything I can think of sounds like a joke – a literal joke.

  6. Marcel*

    I’m a man and I’m angry on behalf of the first letter writer. I don’t understand why so many men get worked up over this. I hope you can get this resolved LW #1. It’s not fair what happened to you. Your coworker is an idiot. He should be ashamed and so should your idiot boss for even entertaining this.

      1. Specialk9*

        I feel like this is the *one* instance in which reversing the genders would actually make a difference. Dude walks up to HR lady, complains about lady things in a bag in a car in the parking lot offending his dudely sensibilities, dude gets written up. Instead a woman complains…

    2. Archie Goodwin*

      I’m a guy, too, and I can’t even begin to wrap my head around the idiocy involved. I mean, nothing about the way this was handled makes any sense to me. Seriously…I’d actually like to hear what twisted reasoning HR is using. Because I CANNOT imagine how anyone viewed this as a legitimate complaint.

      My granddaddy used to say, “People are no damn good.” It’s incidents like this that make me think he had a point, sometimes.

  7. LouiseM*

    OP#1, that is absurd. I have to write a check to my downstairs neighbors because my jaw dropped so fast that it broke through the floor! Your coworker has absolutely no business even looking in your car, and especially not to pass judgement and *report* you for the contents like you’re smuggling dangerous contraband. Something somewhat similar happened to my coworker Tanya at ToxicOldJob: she had her purse open on the floor next to her desk and our coworker Candy, who previously didn’t know she was a smoker because she didn’t usually smoke during work hours, noticed a pack of cigarettes sitting in there and reported it to our grandboss. Luckily, the grandboss was just annoyed with her for wasting her time. The fact that your HR department didn’t react the same way tells me there is something MAJORLY amiss with your company’s priorities. Good luck to you, OP!

    As a side note…Alison, can I ask what your reasoning was for including this in the 5Qs and not as a standalone? I understand that it’s a short answer because this is such a ludicrous situation, but you must have anticipated that there will be hundreds of outraged comments about this question that will dominate the thread. It can be a little tough to follow the comments when that happens (like yesterday).

      1. LouiseM*

        true, but right now there are more than 20 comments and they are literally all about question 1. Nobody is arguing, but everyone is commenting on it.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I thought about it! But the vast majority of readers don’t participate in the comment section, and I factor that in too — that first and foremost I want an interesting mix of letters in the short-answer posts.

    3. paul*

      Pretty sure if I complained about a coworker’s pads being visible in my car it’d be *me* getting written up…it’s absurd to complain about that. My snarky answer is to leave some used ones on your coworker’s desk…but don’t do that. It’d be bad.

      People have crap in their cars, who cars? Unless there’s bloody handprints and a “HELP!” sign visible…

      You’re not going to get a mix of answers; the comment sections will be 99.9% about the pad letter.

        1. Princess Cimorene*

          I plan to, I promise, but I’m in such disbelief right now, I can’t even get to them!! LOL

          Just what the fufjafjaafhsa….

      3. Elizabeth H.*

        I have actually worried a bit about the optics of my car when I park it right outside work or if someone were to see me with it. I am frequently carrying around a ton of STUFF and sometimes also a lot of bags of bottles and cans (I collect them, but mostly just from myself and my friends, not from other people’s trash) so my car often looks like a trash heap or like someone lives in it. So far no feedback though.

    4. LBK*

      Heh, I literally forgot this was a 5 questions post while going through the comments because I haven’t seen a single one yet about another letter.

    5. SoCalHR*

      I’ve been thinking that too – Allison probably knows by now which letter will get heated response so it does seem to clutter it up when its mixed in with the the 5 answers. I would agree with the suggestion to separate out particularly outrageous letters, but I also recognize its not my site :-)

  8. Kay*

    I’ve seen my boss return from lunch with a bag that has tampons in it before. He is married with 3 daughters. I’m so glad I work for someone who doesn’t get upset at the mere sight of a package of tampons or pads.

    Your coworker is a moron OP #1. So is your boss. He should have shut it down as soon as your coworker complained.

    1. Erin*

      I just want to add, pads and tampons are exactly like bandaids for different parts of the body. My husband took an advanced first aid class and they said for really bad wounds A couple of maxi pads are a really good thing to keep in your kit. I used to keep them by the first aid kit at my old job.

      1. This Daydreamer*

        Tampons were originally developed to treat gunshot wounds during war. The nurses found them quite handy for their own use.

        1. Annie Moose*

          Eh, women have been using various sponge-like things for periods for years. The ancient Egyptians used papyrus for tampons. The modern form of tampons might have origins like you say, but the overall concept is ancient.

          1. Liz T*

            Nothing This Daydream said was inaccurate, so the “eh” seems a little unwarranted. We’re talking about the modern form of tampons.

      2. Emi.*

        When a male EMT was showing me around the ambulance before my ride-along, he got to trauma dressings and made a face like Should I say this? I’m just gonna say it, and then said “It’s basically a giant maxi pad.”

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          When I was involved in TV production, we used to use non-lubricated condoms to cover microphones when it rained and we were doing something outside.

          1. kayakwriter*

            I’m not a hunter, but I have carried a shotgun as bear protection in some situations. When it’s rainy or muddy, I often slip an un-lubed condom over the end of the barrel to keep it from getting rusted out or jammed with gunk. (Feel free to have a field day with the Freudian overtones of condoms and guns if you like:-)

          2. curly sue*

            We still do that in theatre for mic packs. It can get really sweaty under the stage lights, especially for dancers.

            1. Liz T*

              In college I had to loan out our body mics to a group performing a religious musical in a church. They refused to use condoms! I didn’t see the show but am told there was some crackling.

              Also one time a show added a body mic at the last minute, because an actor had lost her voice, but no one had any unlubricated condoms. Someone had a lubricated one and we tried wiping off the lube…it did not work.

              1. Liz T*

                Also I once ADed a regional production of A Christmas Carol that had a whole slew of child actors. It always tickled me to see the boxes and boxes of unlubricated condoms that were stored in the theater regardless.

    2. Kuododi*

      Right there with you!!! One of my Dad’s favorite ways to harass me and my little sister when we were young silly adolescents was to go into the drug store, purchase the biggest, ultra-jumbo boxes of hygiene products and just walk out the store bold as brass with no bag for the purchase. He’d just tuck the box(es) under his arm and head out big as you please! Needless to say little sister and I were ducked down in the back seat of the car praying noone we knew would happen to be in the area!!!

      As far as this work situation is concerned…the mind boggles!!! Just when I thought I’d heard it all… I have nothing to contribute to the situation because I am trying to get my brains back in their proper location.

        1. Kuododi*

          He really is…he’s always been committed to raising me and little sister to take advantage of all the opportunities life has to bring. I actually had him preach at my ordination service….(he’s not clergy)…there wasn’t a dry eye in the church. He’s absolutely cool!!!

  9. Troutwaxer*

    Maxi Pads in your car! What cosmic maddening horror is this? Aiiiii! Yog Sothoth save me! The glowing vision of pastel boxes is driving me insane… Azathoth! Heed your humble servants call! Save me from the tentacled horrors inside the their abyssal barriers of cardboard and flowery prose! By the horror that is Glaaki… my mind is filled with hellish, chaotic vistas of feminine hygiene! Even my studies of the Necronomicon and the hideous G’harne Fragments have not – AHHHHHH I must make The Sign against them! Contamination! Irises! Pr’ctor and G’mble!

    Ia Ia Cthulhu, Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn! By the horrific visions of Georgia O’Keeffe… I am undone…

    3. Harper the Other One*

      “By the horrific visions of Georgia O’Keeffe…”

      And I’m dead. My cat is looking at me wondering why I’m laughing like a loon.

    4. FD*

      But I must try to tell what I thought I saw that night under the mocking feminine moon—saw sitting in the back seat of a Ford Focus in plain sight in front of me as I crouched among the painted lines of my employer’s parking lot. Of course my resolution to keep my eyes shut had failed. It was foredoomed to failure—for who could crouch blindly while a legion of pastel, cardboard-boxed feminine products glared arrogantly from a shopping bag, scarcely more than a yard away?

    6. Nolan*

      For some reason, this is the comment that reminded me that my mother once successfully used a box of tampons to smuggle a couple Cuban cigars into the country at the end of a vacation. Apparently the men in customs were very keen to not investigate its contents.

      1. Troutwaxer*

        I have to admit I stole that particular setup from Mark. E. Rogers, author of the Samurai Cat books. (I highly recommend the Samurai Cat books, BTW, to anyone who likes fantasy, science-fiction, or movies and loves to laugh!)

    9. Gayle Davidson-Durst*

      The most merciful thing in the office, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all the contents of a woman’s purse. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of red seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated hygiene products will open up such terrifying vistas of feminine reality, and of our frightful relation thereto, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new man cave.

  11. Mookie*

    I agree with Alison’s preferred twitter suggestion, re the appropriate response to the invasion of LW 1’s privacy and autonomy, but I think she ought to work a menstrual cup into the melange. Maybe sip fruit punch from it, very dainty-like, for the rest of the week.

    1. Troutwaxer*

      I think there’s a classier alternative. The OP should get some Georgia O’Keeffe prints for her cubicle walls. Flowers, mostly, but maybe a skull or two as well…

  12. anncakes*

    I’d just start leaving that coworker notes inside my car. Not anything mean. Just “HI [COWORKER], how are you today? I think it’s supposed to rain in the afternoon,” or maybe ask her to take a look at things like a new sweater and a “What do you think of this color? They also had it in red,” kind of note.

    Absolutely ridiculous.

    1. Verde*

      I used to do this in one of my desk drawers, where I kept stuff coveted by another coworker. I put a piece of tape across the whole inside of the drawer with a note stuck to it that just said, “Close the drawer, Fergus.”

  13. Elizabeth West*

    I. JUST. CANNOT. EVEN.

    What kind of weird mindset would lead this woman to complain about menstrual pads in another person’s car? And what kind of f*cked-up people in HR would write up the OP for this??????

    I would most definitely push back, OP1, and please, PLEASE update us. This is just bananacrackers all around.

    1. many bells down*

      I mean, what’s next? Oh, I left a book in my car and co-worker doesn’t like murder mysteries? Or the profanity-laden CD she can see tossed on the floor? Or something I need to return to Victoria’s Secret after work and I left the bag in there?

      2. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

        Sometimes I do Costco runs before work. I’d love to be reported for the industrial size ranch and salsa dressing bottles in my car.

          1. Julia*

            You know, at least food appropriated by white people, I could maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe understand. But freaking menstrual pads??

            3. Anion*

              No. The only way the “food appropriation” complaint would be understandable would be if the white person in question literally appropriated–i.e. stole–the complaining person’s actual personal jar of salsa.

              There is no other way that such a complaint is even remotely understandable, or is anything but ridiculous and offensive.

        2. Erin*

          That’s where I buy my feminine hygiene products. I don’t want a nasty leak during the zombie apocalypse.

      3. Not a Morning Person*

        Oh no! Toothpaste! She knows I wear dentures. How dare she flaunt her natural teeth! Hussy!

      4. Kathlynn*

        I actually brought brand new underwear to work because I’d gone into town bus, fairly early for lunch. As it happened, I had time to spare and needed a new bra. So here I was walking into my gas station with a bag from a Victoria Seceret type store. And no one complained, because hey we are all adults and 90% females. Also kept it in the staff bathroom, where we are supposed to keep all our personal belongings while on shift (which I generally refuse to do. I have too many meds for that to work)

    2. EvilQueenRegina*

      I’m wondering how the coworker even noticed them in the first place – would she not have had to go right up and be looking in the car window to see them?

      1. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

        I think she had to slow down, peer inside and note the pads because they were in a bag with other items. How many other cars is she policing? The backseat of my car looks like a grocery cart sometimes. Many stores don’t use plastic bags anymore and if I don’t bring my own into the store then things get tossed into the back.

      2. XF1013*

        People are giving the coworker a hard time for “noticing” the maxi pads, as if she had to deliberately put her face right up to the glass to seek them out. But her noticing them is the only human behavior described in the letter that makes sense to me. I park beside coworkers’ cars every day, and when I’m getting in or out of my vehicle, I cannot help but spot things on their seats like fast-food bags or cigarette packs or magazine covers, especially if it’s a vehicle with raised suspension that puts the contents closer to eye level. I don’t seek these objects out, I don’t stare at them, and I don’t care about them. I just move along with my day. But I cannot help but see them at an unintentional glance; that’s normal.

        1. Observer*

          Except that they were in a bag with other toiletries. Which means that it would not be the kind of thing that just jumps at you.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Everything is fine and okey-dokey, UNTIL the Boss or HR has offensive items in THEIR cars.
      What-to-do, what-to-do. Will HR write themselves up? Will the boss turn herself in? Stay tuned.

  14. Bea*

    Does your co-worker want you to go spend your menstruation time in a frigging hut as well. God help us all, the filthy maxi pads of doooooom!

    I would leave them there and let them fire me for it. Then enjoy looking for a new job while jacking up their unemployment payments because these people are off their rockers and can ef right off. They’re not suddenly going to change, they wrote you up for maxi pads.

    We keep a stash in our bathroom at work. How does this woman cope with seeing aisles of pads and tampons in every grocery store?!?

    1. KR*

      Your last point – our offices with separate male and female bathrooms keep bins of sanitary products in them! I keep a huge box in my desk – if my coworkers go in there they will see it. It’s normal! It’s natural! I don’t flaunt my pads all over the office with my two male co-workers but many women menstruate and it’s not news! I am so speechless about wuestion 1, I will have to comment tomorrow on the others.

      1. T3k*

        I remember starting at my last job and telling my mom how amazed I was at the bathrooms. Not only were they large, individual bathrooms, but they all came stocked with pads and tampons. The biggest kicker was that it was in an industry known to be very male dominated.

        1. Specialk9*

          It always feels kind of like an unexpected holiday when there are free feminine products. Woohoo! (And side eye to hoarders who ruin it for the rest of us.)

      2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        They just instituted a big basket of menstrual products in the bathroom at my office, and I’m so happy!

      3. Eye of Sauron*

        This is how it is in my office too. We got a new boss and he was the type that would try to get a rise out people for fun (in a good natured way) and one day he for whatever reason he realized that there were free feminine products so of course he started ‘ranting’ about it. “Gah… that’s why our budget’s off no more freebies here! That’s unfair there’s nothing free in the men’s room” That sort of thing…

        I just smiled through the rant and told him to go home and ask his wife about the merits of his budget saving idea and get back to me. He brought it up again in the next staff meeting and said that his wife told him to shut up and that he was being ridiculous. I told him that was what I was going to say too, but I thought it would be more fun to embarrass himself to his family. He laughed and said they were used to it by now.

      4. many bells down*

        We have two all-gender single-person staff restrooms at the museum. Only one of them has a tampon dispenser. I’ve been talking to other women around the facility about why we don’t just have a basket in each restroom.

        Those tampon machines are always an absolute last resort, because no one wants the cheap cardboard-y products they’re stocked with. And then half the time they’re empty, or broken, and it eats your quarter which is just adding insult to injury. And you’ve no way of knowing until you put your quarter in!

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I mean, I would not be against bringing back the concept of menstrual huts if they were equipped with wifi, plumbing, and chocolate.

      4. Specialk9*

        Red Tent baby!

        As an aside, the author of that, Anita Diamant, used her author money to sponsor an amazing nondenominational and nongendered Jewish ritual bath (Mayyim Hayyim mikveh) and it’s amazing. I give her credit for giving back to the community like that, and for making it so inclusive.

      7. Jessie the First (or second)*

        Can we have nachos in there? I’d like super salty and cheesy snacks.

      1. Environmental Navy Wife (previously Environmental Gone Public Health Gone Back Environmental)*

        “Who the hell eats chips in a bathroom??!”

  15. Lynn*

    OP 1: What the actual fuck?

    I’d be torn between hiding all toilet paper, tampons, etc. at work, posting signs that per my write up, these things cannot be present or viewed on the property, versus putting a copy of the write up everywhere with pads and tampons all over the office, since my car is not an acceptable place to store them.

  16. Vancouver Reader*

    I’m curious as why HR got involved. I could understand if the OP had an open bottle or a joint showing, but pads? Is the co worker concerned about the OP needing more bathroom breaks than normal?

    1. Bea*

      They’re poorly trained dingleberries. I once heard someone say that if someone is offended by ANYTHING AT ALL there must be an action taken otherwise the company is at risk of Anti-Pad Patty suing them. That person was a trained professional sadly and HR consultant.

      I know all my bosses even the most skittish one of them all would take their chances on that BS complaint.

    2. Try Again Please*

      But, like… what was the write up?

      “LW1 kept personal hygiene products in plain view on site. Despite never being told this was a problem, and despite the fact that said items are used every month by roughly half the world’s population, coworker decided it was necessary to report that, indeed, LW1 menstruates or knows someone who menstruates. For that, we are formally entering into her record that she has made an error in judgment.

      Steps to resolve: Tell LW1 to be more discreet about normal bodily functions that I, coworker, and LW1 are all intimately familiar with because, like, who wants to be reminded about that when they’re casually walking across the parking lot peering into the backseats of other people’s cars.”

    3. MLB*

      Clearly both the LW’s boss and their HR department are clueless and awful to even entertain this as a complaint. I could MAYBE understand a complaint if she had them sitting on her desk, but then just telling her to put them in a drawer would have been sufficient.

  17. Princess Cimorene*

    #1 – I’m still blinking so hard in disbelief at this one that I can’t manage to even read down further. W.T.F.

  18. LizM*

    I would call in sick next time I got my period.

    “I won’t be coming in today. I’ll be bleeding from my vagina, and I don’t want to risk offending anyone. Normally I’d use a maxi pad, but my understanding is those aren’t welcome. I don’t want to risk offending anyone who happens to dig through my purse when I’m not looking.”

      1. Future Homesteader*

        OT, but that actually happened once to a female public defender in MA who was trying to get into a jail to see her client. No joke, the guards made her show them her pad, because they were worried she was smuggling….a blanket? Who the eff knows.

    5. Environmental Navy Wife (previously Environmental Gone Public Health Gone Back Environmental)*

      Brilliant!

  20. What Is This Nonsense?*

    There have been a lot of doozies on this site, but holy cow at letter #1. Would they have fired her on the spot if she had an accident and heaven forbid someone saw period blood? HR should have disciplined the snooper instead of the OP for the invading her privacy and having the audacity to complain about it. I kinda hope this goes the way of the spicy food debacle and the OP’s boss, HR, and the coworker who snooped all get fired for this garbage. Wow just wow…I can’t even.

    I feel bad for letter writer #2 as, and hopefully, it’s just a lot of wires getting crossed and not a case of malice.

  21. The Bimmer Guy*

    #1: Assuming your coworker is a cisgender woman who also uses feminine hygiene products, I’m very surprised she had that reaction. But, absolutely you need to push back on that disciplinary file. How ridiculous that you have three different entities (your coworker, your boss, and HR) who think this is acceptable behavior.

    I might start looking for another place to work, too.

    1. LouiseM*

      Alison said upthread that the coworker was actually a trans woman. Sorry to say, I think she may have fallen victim to a fake letter written by a TERF (trans exclusionary radical feminist)–they really like to focus on menstruation as one of their incontrovertible pieces of evidence that trans women a) aren’t really women and b) are orchestrating a sinister plot to victimize cis women. This seems like the kind of fantasy plot they would hatch (but I don’t want to derail us on a conversation about whether or not the letter is real)

      1. Observer*

        If you don’t want to derail on a discussion of whether the letter is real, why did you bring up the question at all?

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I don’t think so at all; in our exchange, she was sensitive about it and concerned about not appearing transphobic. She also only included it in a second PS (not even the first PS) and said she wasn’t sure it was relevant. It wasn’t even part of the original question.

        1. Savannnah*

          I think it’s possibly relevant only to explain the overreaction of the HR person perhaps. I could see a situation where the HR person overly reacts due to optics around how the company treats trans people.

          1. Technical_Kitty*

            I can absolutely see the HR person being unsure of how to respond to this from a trans woman and immediately just taking their side in an effort to be inclusive. The HR person is still really, REALLY bad at their job, but I can see how it might happen.

            1. Positive Reframer*

              That’s a common problem. Something that a lot of people struggle with. I know I don’t want to treat them worse so I treat them better, but in the end you are still basing your treatment on that factor. Its a fine and nuanced line to walk. How does one balance maybe this opinion reflects the opinions of this group but I don’t want to make assumptions about the group based on one individual and visa versa?

              1. Technical_Kitty*

                What’s really annoying is that in their effort to be inclusive to someone they are being pretty awful to another. The HR person who did this is so, so bad at their job. The boss who let this happen is also terrible at their job.

          2. Cousin Itt*

            I think it’s somewhat relevant to determining the motive of the complaining co worker as well. While the complaint is still ridiculous and merits pushback from the OP, her being a trans woman suggests she may be coming less from a place of ‘periods are shameful and disgusting’ and more of a ‘this is triggering to my gender dysphoria’ place.

            It would also mean the suggestions in the comments of parading menstrual products around the office in retaliation would be inappropriate.

            2. Joielle*

              This is where I come down on it too. Of course, it wasn’t ok to make the complaint, but I can see why the coworker might have that initial involuntary triggered reaction. She should have exercised restraint and recognized that it was her own issue to deal with and not an objectively reasonable complaint, but as someone who has disordered thinking patterns from time to time myself, I can empathize with it.

              I think the real problem here is with HR, who should have kindly shut down the complaint.

              1. Cousin Itt*

                I totally agree that HR are the ones who should be held accountable. The complaining co worker would have been a lot better served by a sympathetic HR department that nevertheless made it clear that this is not a reasonable accomodation.

      3. Cambridge Comma*

        There have been enough menstrual product related letters for this one to be genuine for sure. However, Louise is right that this (including the writing of these kind of letters to get publicity) is a common TERF tactic.
        However, as Alison often says, the advice is valid even if the LW isn’t.

        1. Specialk9*

          I didn’t know about TERF, but it did occur to me that that would be a good tactic for further oppression trans people. Look! They want to bully women for menstruating! What new laws can we write to harm trans people more – I mean protect people from the trans menace.

          Urgh.

      4. Marvel*

        Guys, please. I’m trans and I hang out with a lot of other trans people, and let me tell you: Unreasonable trans people exist! The percentage of trans loons is roughly equal to the percentage of cis loons. Trans people can be wrong. They can be sexist and homophobic. They can be just plain totally off their rocker. We’re people.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Whaaat? You mean trans people are not Special Magical Unicorns of Goodness and Light???

        3. LouiseM*

          Did you reply to the wrong post? I didn’t say anything about trans people being more likely to have one type of personality or another. I do think this particular situation would have been extremely unlikely in any case, but once the trans coworker was added in it seemed obvious to me that it may be a TERF trick. If it wasn’t, the terfs should take notes because commenters who have probably never thought about it are spewing out terf talking points like there’s no tomorrow.

          1. Marvel*

            I disagree with basically everything you just said, but yes, I was replying to your comment. We get letters about cis loons all the time, but as a commenting community we’ve agreed that sometimes people are loons and we’re not going to question the veracity of every single letter that comes in because fact is stranger than fiction and people are weird in a multitude of fascinating and sometimes horrible ways. To say that ONLY cis people are allowed to be loons or else the letter is fake, to me, is transphobic. Some trans people are honestly just loons. It happens. Someone being trans doesn’t always have to change everything about the situation.

        5. Ray Gillette*

          Yeah – the essentializing of transgender people in this thread is driving me nuts.

      5. Gazebo Slayer*

        TERFs are horrible and that’s the sort of thing they would do, but if it were a fake letter to smear trans women wouldn’t the letter itself have mentioned that the pad-hating coworker was a trans woman? We didn’t find this out until Alison said the LW had mentioned it in their private exchange.

        Agreeing with the comments that say that some people in every demographic, including trans women, are unreasonable jerks.

          1. LBK*

            Saying the coworker is trans isn’t saying there’s something bad about trans people. This would be a weird site to try to target with something like that since there’s a pretty good history of commenters being supportive of trans people.

          2. Delphine*

            You’d rather believe that the LW didn’t mention it at all and was purposefully hoping that Alison would eventually ask for a follow-up so that she could sneakily add that little detail in, which Alison would then relate to all of us? That’s more believable to you than a trans women being a jerk?

          3. Not So NewReader*

            When the dust settles though, it’s the boss and HR that look the worst. IF this was a smear, which I doubt, the smear missed the target. The boss and HR are the biggest losers here.

          4. Mad Baggins*

            I mean, it’s relevant. It gives us some clue about the coworker’s/HR motivations. Yes, what happened is still inappropriate, but it might be coming from the coworker’s hangups and HR wanting to support trans people without knowing what that means (as opposed to a misogynistic dudebro who thinks ladies are gross). It doesn’t change what OP should do about it, but it does help us understand the fuller picture.

      7. Tea*

        F…antasy? I’m sorry, but trans people are people, and just as subject to unreasonable, entitled, garbage behavior as anyone else. I have absolutely gotten shit on by transwomen for daring to mention my period (in a context that had nothing to do with them) and seen transwomen treating other women poorly for daring to reference other common feminine matters (who knew that a baby announcement was exclusionary and transphobic to one’s fb friends?) I’ve also been shit on for mentioning my period by dudes and cis women, and seen pregnant women treated poorly by the same, so this is an all around equal opportunity way to mistreat people, I guess.

        Putting trans people on pedestals and treating bad behavior from trans people as a ‘conspiratorial fantasy plot’ is exactly the kind of thing that feeds TERFs’ ridiculous garbage sentiments.

        1. Gazebo Slayer*

          Yuuuup. That kind of thing – using a marginalized identity as a shield against any and all criticism and an excuse for bad behavior – is also a favorite tactic of some “alt-right” types. Like:

          Bigot (who is a gay man): [misogynistic/racist crap]
          Other people: Wow, that’s bigoted. Kindly STFU.
          Bigot: How dare you silence me? I’m gay! Homophobia!!1

      8. Kelly G*

        For you to state that a very common experience women have (being shamed for menstruation) is nothing more than some conspiracy against trans women is literally so off-base & out of touch with the reality of women & trans men that I wonder if you really understand the world and what it’s like for women in it.

      9. Anion*

        In this very comment section there are people instructing biological women that we are not to call ourselves such, telling us what words we are “supposed” to use to describe ourselves, and complaining to Alison that we should be Spoken To for it or have our comments removed.

        Yet you think this question is made-up propaganda?

  22. Observer*

    #1 When you push back, please lodge a formal complaint against your coworker for getting into your car and groceries and for invading your privacy. You should not need to keep your stuff under lock and key to keep your coworkers out of them.

    Oh, and realize that A. your coworker is a major league snoop and the B. your HR are incompetent nincompoops who also apparently don’t actually understand what “private” means. Which means that if there is anything sensitive you need to deal with at work (personal or work related) protect it from these folks!

    1. Scarlet*

      She could also casually mention that writing up someone for having maxi pads in her car sounds a lot like gender-based discrimination.

      1. Bagpuss*

        I’d frame it s a quesiton. – “I need you (HR) to explain why I was written up, as it sounded as though I was being written up for having a packet of sanitary pads with other toiletries, in my private, personal car. On the face if it, that seems like clear gender discrimination, and invasion of privacy given the items were in my car.
        Since I assume that [company] wouldn’t want to behave in a discriminatory way or encourage its employees to invade one another’s privacy, I assume that there has to be another explanation for the way I was treated. What was it? ”
        I’ve been thinking about this one all day and the only thing I could think of was that maybe the complaint was abut something else – e.g. that the co-worker claimed that LW1 taunted her or something, and HR was working on a ‘you know what you did and we don’t need to go into detail’.. which would mean that the complaining co-worker is a loon, and presumably a malicious loon who was deliberately trying to get LW1 into trouble, and thast HR failed epically at communication, but it’s all I can think of.

  23. TootsNYC*

    2. Was I tricked into leaving?

    I’d follow Alison’s suggestion to forward this email along with a “would you have time to discuss this briefly?”

    And then I’d say something like this:

    I’d explain the timeline and conversations.
    And say, “And now, from that email, Jane is still saying that the grant was nearly canceled. That’s in complete opposition to what you told me.
    “When she told me that the first time, I assumed that–as a manager–she wouldn’t be saying that unless she’d heard it directly from you.
    “Given that I only went job-hunting because of this information, which she specifically and directly told me, I’m concerned about this on your behalf.
    “Next year, will the person who has this job be subject to the same misinformation? I wanted to alert you so you could explore how and why Jane is giving incorrect information to the people who work for her, especially on such a crucial subject. Just as it did this time, it could easily lead to your company’s having to recruit a replacement unnecessarily.
    “I felt I owed it to you to alert you.”

    1. AbdiHR*

      Something tells me this happened in the United Arab Emirates. If so, I would advise OP to drop it. Drop it. Let it go. Move on.

      Do not (in their eyes) humiliate a UAE local, or make them lose face. This may be blown out of all proportion. As far as the law is concerned, they walk on water.

      Not worth the drama.

      Speak to any UAE expat.

      1. AnonLW*

        Hi, I’m the LW. I don’t want to be too specific about where I live, but it’s not the UAE or any country with a similar culture.

      2. Traffic_Spiral*

        Dubai is 90% expat and most locals work for the government, so there probably wouldn’t be a company where LW was the only foreigner.

    2. David S.*

      I’m wondering if everyone involved spoke English as a first language and actually knew how these grants work. If the grant has to be renewed every year it’s always in danger of not being renewed regardless of any other factors and these government letters tend to make things sound extra dramatic. By the later time OP went to the upper boss the grant probably was confirmed. It does seem to me like there’s a fairly good chance of miscommunication with people getting nervous about the worst possible outcome.

    3. Irene Adler*

      I wonder though. Should the OP stay at this job should the grand boss ask them to? Given this was a plot by the co-workers and immediate boss to get the OP to quit, staying would make things rather uncomfortable-yes?

      If it were me, I’d follow your advice because I would want the truth of the matter to be known by the grand boss.

      1. Tuxedo Cat*

        If I were the OP2, I would leave. They have a job offer that’s excellent and they’re excited.

        I think that they should say something to their boss, so that OP2 is still well thought of and so that the boss knows.

        1. Annie Moose*

          Yeah, I wouldn’t be very comfortable working with a manager I strongly suspected had deliberately deceived me.

          I would say that the only reasons I would stay (if offered) would be:

          1. the current job had significantly better pay/benefits/environment/work than the new one (which doesn’t seem to be the case)
          2. I was moved to a different manager
          3. the response from the manager/grandboss makes it clear that this was actually a tragic misunderstanding where the manager was misinformed and in fact wasn’t trying to push you out at all and the manager is horrified by the mistake. (but if there’s one ounce of misinformation or weaseling out, I wouldn’t believe it)

          Of course OP2 understands their situation best, but I do think this is something to seriously consider, if grandboss asks them to stay. I definitely wouldn’t make any hasty promises.

      2. Amber T*

        I wouldn’t want to stay. Only if I didn’t have anything lined up at all would I consider it (and OP says they have something great – congrats OP!). Even if it does prove to be a miscommunication… idk, call me paranoid, but I’d have a hard time still working with my colleagues and boss and not wondering if what they’re saying is true. Once that little seed of doubt gets planted, it’s really hard to shake.

      3. Reba*

        No, I think the OP has learned something very useful, if ambiguous, about the company already.

        Speaking to the Big Boss will hopefully be more illuminating but I don’t think there’s anything she could stay that would make me feel comfortable staying on there.

      4. Emily*

        I think OP should leave regardless – she has accepted a new job that she’s excited about! – but talking to the grand-boss might clear up whether this was a result of miscommunication or something more malicious (and let the grand-boss know, if she doesn’t already, that OP was given bad information).

    4. Isabelle*

      I agree that LW2 should let the grandboss know so they can watch out for what happens next. This may be a case of nepotism where the boss or coworkers wanted to give LW2’s job to a family member of friend.
      Since several people got together to give LW2 incorrect information, it’s clear that they wanted him/her gone and there was no miscommunication involved. Thank goodness they found a new job!

    5. LBK*

      I think the OP can drop it in the grandboss’ lap, but she doesn’t need to be so thorough in her explanation or follow-through on it. She’s out of the company now so it doesn’t really matter – it’s up to the grandboss to figure out what to do about it. She doesn’t seem to have any interest in getting her old job back so there’s no stakes other than her own curiosity of figuring out what the hell was going on (which I admit I’d love an answer to as well, but for the OP’s sanity I’d also recommend not expending much energy on that if the answer isn’t going to easily reveal itself).

  24. Observer*

    #2 Someone is not telling you the truth.

    You should most definitely email GrandBoss because SOMETHING is very, very off. Either someone is lieing (and playing some serious hanky panky) or communications in this place a very badly broken.

    In either case, be glad you’re out of there.

    1. Chocolate Teapot*

      Years ago, I applied for a job in another country. The interviewer (who also came from another, different, country) seemed to like me, but HR was less enthusiastic, saying I didn’t have certain educational experience, which would only have been possible had I been a national of the country in which I was applying. I think there was an element of non-nationals taking jobs from nationals.

      In this case, I wonder if there was a combination of crossed wires (“we are waiting for comfirmation the funding will be reviewed”) and the Manager wanting to get rid of the OP?

      1. Naptime Enthusiast*

        My cousin’s wife had a similar experience, she was unable to find a job in her field in his home country because there was a bias against foreigners. They’ve since moved to a neutral country for both of them and have had better luck, but she was so frustrated to learn she uprooted her life and would never be given a fair opportunity.

    2. Sherm*

      Yes, you found an excellent new job that you’re excited about, and your old workplace either has at least one backstabber or has a serious communication problem. Don’t feel bad (if you do). What happened is on them, not you.

    3. CityMouse*

      Yeah, I think OP should take that new job, but should also tell head boss what happened.

    4. Is it Friday yet?*

      I’d probably forward the email to big boss with a simple FYI and no further explanation.

  25. Laura H*

    In. Her. Car. UNUSED!! JUST RECENTLY BOUGHT!!?!!!

    Excuse my jaw hitting the floor.

    I get the what you use to deal with the monthly visitor is your own business and no one needs to know kinda reason (that doesn’t hold ANY water when the package is in a privately owned car) – Dudette- there’s no difference of it being in a car or on a store shelf- except the former is paid for!!!

    It’s a biological function that indicates the female reproductive organs are doin their job. Said biological function produces an unpleasant… byproduct! There are things that make said bio function byproduct easier to deal with and dispose of. I don’t understand why that coworker (who knows what said items are for) finds catching sight of those objects (in a private car!) anywhere near offensive enough to go to the boss!

    Coworker is horribly in the wrong, and I’m horribly in support of being vindictive about it and suggest office wide denial of a pad or product when she needs one. (Don’t do this- it’s just as socially mortifying)

    Good luck OP 1.

  26. Kalkin*

    Do we know that OP#1 works at a regular-type office? If so, that’s truly mind-boggling. But I’m wondering if this could be a restaurant or some kind of retail shop where the staff and management skew younger. I feel like this could have gone down at the Tex-Mex place I worked at in college, where our twentysomething supervisors (and even GMs) weren’t especially well trained in employment law and were prone to making decisions based on what felt right in the moment.

  27. Tin Cormorant*

    #5: My husband was born in another country and has an obviously foreign name. He puts a little “U.S. Citizen” note in parentheses in the top header of his resume. I’d never even considered anyone doing this until I saw it on his, but I figure it can’t hurt just in case someone was wondering about his legal status.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      This is actually a good point. If you live in a particularly conservative area and have an obviously foreign name, it might not be a bad idea to include it. Sad to say, but it could make a difference.

      1. VioletEMT*

        I wouldn’t even restrict it to specific parts of the country. You never know where people come from or what ideas they have in their head.

      2. The Original Flavored K*

        Some part of me is twitching at “obviously foreign name.” Like, my family name is a common Spanish name — now that I’ve moved to the southwest, it’s far less unusual, but back in the southeast, was it foreign? What about somebody with an obviously German or Polish surname? Are those foreign? Do we really think that family names like McGinnis originated in a country that only exists because a bunch of people headed west across the ocean, to a “new” continent, or are Scottish/Irish surnames not foreign?

        We’re saying “foreign,” but I think we’re really saying “white.”

        1. VioletEMT*

          We’re absolutely saying “white.” And it sucks. But I’ve got friends who don’t get interviews with Indian surnames because people assume they will need sponsorship when they won’t.

          I’m not saying that it’s right. I’m saying that it’s how it is, and it’s regrettable.

        2. JHunz*

          You might be overthinking it slightly. I think “foreign” in this context probably means “foreign to this area”. I live in Chicago, so if I see a Polish or Italian name it wouldn’t even cross my mind that the person might not be a citizen. Also, there are definitely several ways for even clearly white names to sound foreign. I’m thinking some titles in particular.

        3. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Oh, for sure it means “non white sounding name”. Which sucks, but there have been numerous studies about how you can submit identical resumes with different names and John Smith will get more calls than anyone else.

          I’m not saying it’s right in any way. Just that putting “legally authorized to work for any employer in the US” may make a difference when someone is screening a resume.

        4. Student*

          I have an obviously foreign name. It’s white and European. In particular, I have a very unusual last name, so it sticks out like a sore thumb. I get asked about it a lot. People native to the country it comes from will actually ask me if I’m an immigrant more often than my fellow Americans do, but Americans do ask. They’re primarily bewildered as to where it comes from and how to pronounce it.

          The threshold is much higher for a “white” name to get this than a non-white name, but if it’s unusual and white it does still happen. The common theme is that if it’s very different from “normal Americanized” white foreign names – most “normal” ones have a Latin-root origin language – it’ll stand out that your family hasn’t yet “Americanized” it. It gives others the impression that you might be a first-gen immigrant. Indeed, most people with my last name “Americanized” it to something that stands out less when they immigrated. I’ll get called an Americanized version of my last name quite frequently, as people assume there’s a typo or just don’t believe what their eyes are telling them.

          I suspect that a lot of people with Polish or Dutch last names experience this, since those nationalities use many names that are obviously not Latin-origin. At least one American friend in high school with a very Polish first and last name went through this regularly.

          The biggest difference is that the people with white foreign names get treated with curiosity. They don’t make me feel unwelcome or like I’m not a real American. People with non-white foreign names are more likely to experience harmful, prejudiced “othering” about it, a cruel rejection of their actual American identity. Hispanic last names and Middle Eastern last names in particular have it rough this decade.

          1. Green cards are good*

            A foreign sounding first name is a much bigger giveaway. I disagree it’s all about names sounding white or non white. This is a very Anglo centric view and it’s offensive. My name is European, I’m white, it’s a typical name for where I come from, so it’s a white sounding name because you can bet that 99,99% of people with this name are white. However, it does sound foreign to Americans.

    2. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      I’m not sure if this is a good or bad strategy on your husband’s part but it makes me really sad. There shouldn’t be something considered “an obviously foreign name” in the US – we’re such a nation of immigrants. Why are we still so racist?

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Why are we still so racist?

        I would attempt to answer this, but wouldn’t be able to without breaking all the site commenting rules.

      2. Try Again Please*

        To be fair, citizenship is a very important question for an employer because non-citizen applications and employment are expensive and complicated.

        Making assumptions based on name alone is problematic, of course. But when you know your name is unusual within a community, it sometimes helps to hedge your bets, plan for the worst and hope for the best.

        I don’t think it’s malicious racism, in other words, so much as negligent racism. (Not that it’s better. Just… less malicious.)

        1. Discordia Angel Jones*

          “non-citizen applications and employment are expensive and complicated”

          Is that true even when the applicant doesn’t need a visa from the company to work, and they already have a work-authorised visa independent of their employment?

          (I genuinely don’t know!)

          1. Foxtrot*

            I think it’s only an issue if you require employer sponsorship, but I’m not sure you can ask until you’re handing someone an I9 what paperwork they need? I’ve seen some job postings that say they can’t provide visa sponsorship, so that’s out. It seems so aggressive to me though, even if there’s a simple answer like it’s a small company and visa legal fees are too much. I don’t know how it would be handled by employers who would jump through hoops for the truly amazing, one of a kind candidate, but not just anyone.

            1. VioletEMT*

              My employer recruits at college career fairs and we’re in an industry where a lot of firms do sponsor. We do not, for various reasons. So we have a sign that says “We’re unable to sponsor visas” in our booth. Our postings all list as a requirement that applicants must be able to work in the US without sponsorship. It may seem aggressive, but those items were added at the request of candidates who needed sponsorship and got a ways down the hiring process before learning we couldn’t sponsor them. They didn’t want us wasting anyone’s time.

              1. Erin*

                I don’t think that’s any different than having a sign that says must be 18 years or older to apply. Saves applicants time and energy and weeds out candidates who can’t work for you.

            3. Lindsay J*

              For some types of Visas (particularly some of those that require employer sponsorship), it doesn’t matter how excellent the candidate would be.

              You can only hire these types of visa-holders for those positions if there are no qualified US candidates for that role. And for a lot of positions, that is realistically never going to happen. So there’s no point in accepting and sorting through applications from people you cannot legally hire.

              I guess if there was an amazing candidate, you could rewrite and post a job description tailored specifically to that person and their amazingness, so you could then say that you didn’t have any qualified US candidates, and then hire them.

              National origin is generally a protected class.

              1. Green cards are good*

                Also, you can only apply for H1-B visas once a year (I forgot which month) and there’s a lottery. It’s really a pain. It’s not a simple process at all.

          2. Bea*

            I’ve worked with so many immigrants who are American citizens that it outrages me to think people believe it’s expensive and they need sponsorship. If they have a greencard, they’re good to go only extra paperwork is when you make sure to get an updated card on file every 10 years!

            1. fposte*

              Though if they have a green card, they’re not citizens but permanent residents; those are two different categories.

            2. Temperance*

              It’s cheaper to file for citizenship once you’re eligible, and citizens, unlike LPRs, are able to vote, and are at significantly lower risk of deportation.

          3. Parenthetically*

            My husband is a non-citizen with a marriage-based green card which entitles him to work. Hiring him doesn’t require any additional paperwork on the employer’s part, except for keeping a copy of his work authorization on file, and, in fact, employers are not allowed to refuse to consider him based on his immigration status. There are certain government positions that require you to be a citizen, but most jobs are open to anyone who has a green card or a work visa, and not all visas that allow work are conditional on employment.

          4. Green cards are good*

            It’s actually illegal to discriminate based on what kind of work permit the person has, as long as they’re authorized to work in the US. You are authorized to work anywhere in the private sector without any restrictions as long as you possess the necessary documents, which could be documents proving your US citizenship, your permanent residence status or just an employment authorization document. An employer cannot deny you employment just because your work authorization has an expiration date. And no, there’s no need for the employer to be demand a new green card after the old one expires – as long as the employee can show two forms of ID (a SSC and a driver’s license for instance) as required by I-9, they’re good to go. An employer can always use e-verify to confirm that someone is authorized to work in the US.

            Visa sponsorship is a totally different process. If an alien doesn’t already have an employment authorization document, then an employer must sponsor him for a visa but this is a very long and expensive process and the employer must prove that they can’t find any US citizen or a person already authorized to work in the US for the job. The most common work visa H1-B is actually a lottery, so even if the employer does everything right, it’s still possible that the prospective employee won’t be selected.

            I have a green card, that’s why I know all of this

        2. Rick*

          There’s a lot more on a resume than just a name that could suggest the need for visa status. In particular, recent education and employment in other countries.

          That is to say, employers may legitimately suspect a candidate would require sponsorship independent of the candidate’s race.

        3. Annie Moose*

          There can also be industry-specific reasons why citizenship status is important. I used to work for a chemical manufacturing company that had some projects with the US government, and only American citizens could access certain information about the projects–e.g. the databases, which led to interesting issues because we outsourced a lot of development to an Indian company. They employed a handful American citizens specifically for these sorts of projects.

          Of course this depends on your industry, but it’s another case where it’s quite relevant.

        4. Half-Caf Latte*

          But I’ve never filled out a job application that didn’t ask “are you legally allowed to work in the US”, so there is a mechanism for employers to get this information up front

        5. Student*

          Actually, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 made it illegal to discriminate on the basis of national origin.

          It is, in fact, illegal to discriminate in hiring based on whether someone is a citizen or not as a consequence of this law. You can tell people that they have to provide evidence they can legally work in the US. You can rescind a job offer to a foreign national who can’t legally work in the US. You can’t refuse to hire a foreign national because you’re worried about their future visa status or the paperwork burden on your company.

          There is an exemption for jobs that require US citizenship based on national security requirements – jobs where you need to obtain and maintain a clearance. If someone takes issue, we have to be able to prove those jobs require a clearance to do them.

      3. Jennifer*

        I think genetically we freak out if anyone is different from us, at least until we get used to the idea, because of evolution and whatnot. That seems to be the science of why we freak when anyone is Different, for any reason.
        Hell, we can’t even deal with women also being humans.

        I think it’s a good strategy in this day and age and right now, though.

        1. Mookie*

          Compared to other species, we are not particularly “genetically” diverse, and within so-called human “population,” clusters, or “communities” there is greater diversity than without. I don’t really see what evolutionary adaptation you’re referring to that explains bigotry.

          1. Mookie*

            But in any case, not every human foible or behavior is a genetic expression or consequence of evolution.

          2. Thlayli*

            There is a pretty obvious evolutionary advantage to being wary of outsiders when you live in a world with limited resources and multiple competing groups. Many many animals will drive outsiders away from their territory/resources. Lions, wolves, birds etc all compete for territory. “Bigotry” exists in many species. In areas where camouflage is important to survival animals with the “wrong” skin or fur colour are often shunned or driven away.

            Humans are the only species that even tries to overcome our natural instinct to be wary of outsiders.

            It’s possible to oppose bigotry, to think that we should work against our natural instinct, and to still recognise that the instinct to mistrust outsiders exists and was useful for survival in the past. Understanding evolution and science is not incompatible with being fair minded and opposed to bigotry in the present.

            1. Naptime Enthusiast*

              I wish now that my Evolution and Human Diversity class in college talked about this more, I only vaguely remember 2 lectures on this topic and didn’t really appreciate what it meant for today’s society.

            2. Overeducated*

              But I think the scientific and historical evidence is strong that “outsiders” are more socially than genetically defined.

              1. Thlayli*

                What an intelligent and well-researched counter argument. Do tell me more, oh thou expert in evolutionary science.

      4. Zip Silver*

        To be fair, you can have an obviously foreign name and still be part of America’s racial majority. Just have a non-Anglo/Latin/Biblical name. For instance, things like Hans Schmitt, Sven Bjornsson or Dmitri Vladivoski.

    3. CityMouse*

      I participated in a hiring once that did require applicants to have US citizenship due to a clearance issue. Some applicants did explicitly put their citizenship in their resumes, usually in the bottom. I don’t think it ever caused a reaction either way. I don’t think it either hurts or helps.

      1. Naptime Enthusiast*

        Due to our export regulations, employees that aren’t full US Citizens can’t work on certain projects. We have green card holders that work certain projects but not others, or even be in the room when technical data is being shared. We are not allowed to ask specifically about citizenship status during the screening process however, so a potential employee could spend a lot of time interviewing and be offered a job but at the last second have the offer revoked because they don’t have the right citizenship. It was explained as preventing us from making biased assumptions during the hiring process about whether or not someone would be allowed to work, and instead treat everyone as being compliant and hire them accordingly.

        1. ggg*

          I am restricted to hiring US citizens. It is helpful for me to know that candidates are US citizens up front.

          I won’t assume anything based only on names (even John Smith could well be Canadian), but if someone studied at foreign universities and/or has foreign work experience in addition, and doesn’t specify US citizenship, I will probably not consider their resume.

    4. VioletEMT*

      Yeah, OP5, I have seen nonwhite college students with “foreign-sounding” names (SMH that this is a thing) put their sponsorship need or lack thereof on their resumes. To the candidates, it keeps potential employers who don’t sponsor visas from wasting their time if they do need a visa, or skipping their resume because they assume sponsorship is needed where it isn’t.

      You don’t necessarily need to put your actual status (visa, green card, citizenship). Most of the resumes I’ve seen say “Eligible to work in the US without sponsorship.” That’s the only level of detail employees are technically allowed to ask. They’re not supposed to discriminate, for example, between citizens and green card holders. So this way you’re not telling them any more than they need to know.

      1. Mel*

        Now I want to ask a friend of mine what his experience has been–he wouldn’t ping any “foreign” bells in most people’s minds–US university education, white guy, white sounding name, etc–but he’s a UK citizen here on a green card married to a US citizen. You can’t tell until you actually start talking to him (British accent obviously).

    5. Falling Diphthong*

      That’s where I’ve heard of it: People with an Asian-sounding last name who couldn’t get interviews because somewhere, a screener had decided “Everyone with the last name Chen is an H1B Visa worker, and I don’t want to deal with the paperwork.”

      1. Anon for this*

        It’s more to do with resumes being generic in a particular way, degrees being from foreign schools, and in many ways the jobs being poor fits (giving the impression that the applicant is applying randomly), than any particular last name.

        1. Tea*

          Where are you getting these assumptions from? There is a huge population of people in the United States with the last name Chen (or other ubiquitous “Asian” last names) with wildly different resumes, degrees and schooling in the US, who are applying to jobs that fit perfectly within their experience. Some of them were born here, some of them are immigrants, some of them are foreign nationals hoping to be sponsored. There is literally no way to know any of that based purely on one’s resume.

    6. Sutemi*

      I’ve mostly seen it as a footnote on resumes where the degree(s) or previous jobs were from a different country. I wouldn’t ask because of naming.

      1. VioletEMT*

        Right, there are several indicators that may suggest need for sponsorship. It’s typically a combination of factors, including foreign work/school experience, often coupled with a non-Anglo sounding name or an accent.

    7. Probably Nerdy*

      I’ve seen this a lot too, and no it isn’t racist – I work in a place where we have to get security clearances which can generally only be given to citizens. If people are applying for any kind of federal job that involves clearances, they will usually put their citizenship status on their resume just to make things easier.

      1. On a pale mouse*

        Only hiring citizens because of security clearancesis not racist. Assuming someone isn’t a citizen because of a “foreign-sounding” name is usually racist.

    8. Lora*

      My field is notorious for the H1b visa thing, and any given company is staffed by easily 1/3 – 1/2 foreigners in major cities. And there are some companies, particularly startups, who rely on defense department contracts for funding, so this information is helpful and technical staffing agencies usually attach a note to your resume before they send it out.

    9. Get out*

      This is something I do to try to ward off the people who are looking for an excuse to reject my resume, but I’m rethinking it in the curent political climate.

      Also I want to push back on what we consider a “foreign sounding” name. I’m sure the same crappy (bigoted?) people your husband is trying to deal with would consider my name “foreign sounding.” This is othering people and is leaning into centering whiteness. Someone with my name (spanish language) could have family who has lived in the U.S. for generations. Maybe they’ve always lived in what is now the U.S. (“We didn’t cross the border, the border crossed us.”) And what about Native Americans, could their name be considered “foreign sounding”?

      I feel like we need better language to describe this.

    10. Candy*

      I wouldn’t do this as a citizen, but my husband did when he first immigrated here. He’d note that he’s a permanent resident who’s legally able to work on his cover letter (but not resume). Since all his listed education and work history was from other countries, it, like Alison said, preemptively answered any questions about his legal eligibility to work here while also implying that he’s settled here permanently and not planning to move again to another country. He stopped doing it after he had built up some local work history, though.

    11. lost academic*

      I was on a thread at work recently about an applicant and I wasn’t paying much attention until someone griped that the person didn’t say on his resume that he could legally work in this country. I was astonished. Only 1% less astonished when I looked at the applicant’s name because wtf, this is why you won’t bring him in for an interview?

      I kind of want our recruiters to start removing names from resumes now – my company is horrible for all kinds of hiring bias like that and you’d never think it if you knew who we were :(

    12. Anion*

      Yes. My husband was born in the US but grew up in England, so all of his education took place there. Also, we lived there for the better part of the last decade, and only moved back to the US recently; of course this means his resume lists his most recent employer in England. So his cover letters and resume mentions that he is a dual US/UK citizen to avoid confusion and make sure he’s not missing opportunities because people see his education & recent employer and assume he is English.

    1. This Daydreamer*

      I don’t think it’s really f’d up. The boss is only human and it’s understandable that his temper would be tested when he’s that overwhelmed.

      You did mean letter #3, right? ;)

  29. Detective Amy Santiago*

    OP#2

    Please follow up directly with manager’s boss as Alison suggested. This definitely sounds shady, though there is a chance that it was a miscommunication.

    Either way, I think it’s probably a good thing that you’re out of there because you’re dealing with one of two situations: malicious coworkers or gross incompetence.

    1. Myrin*

      Yeah, I thought that as well. Good riddance, but what an annoying situation, not to mention confusing and able to make you feel quite insecure about all of your interactions at that company. OP, I hope you’ll be able to get to the bottom of this! (And not only because I’m a nosy bee and want an update, but just for your own peace of mind!)

  30. Detective Amy Santiago*

    OP#3

    It sounds like there is a lot of chaos right now and it only makes sense that there’s a lot of unease. I think it’s great that you recognize your manager is likely under a lot of stress and not assuming the worst. It is definitely worth having a conversation though to put your mind at ease and also it might serve to tip off boss that he might not be handling things as well as he could. He may not even realize that he’s been more critical or how it might be coming across.

    1. Totally Minnie*

      Amy brings up an important point. Sometimes stress can interfere with our own self awareness and we can trick ourselves into thinking we’re managing it better than we actually are. Your boss might not even realize that his tension is starting to show.

      I think as long as you’re calm and professional about it, you can definitely talk about this with your boss.

    2. Kathleen_A*

      I agree. If your boss is a good boss (or even a fairly good boss), he’s going to want to know how his reactions are affecting you. And you have the right to know if there is a real problem with your work or if he’s just letting the stress get to him.

      So ask. Alison has provided some good ideas of how to do this.

    3. Happy Lurker*

      Agreeing with all of the above. OP3 just ask for 5 minutes or less for a quick check in to make sure you are generally heading in the correct direction. With minor re-directions from boss as needed. Good luck.

  31. Totally Minnie*

    OP1, this is some EEOC level garbage. To say that you cannot have medical products in your own car simply because they’re for menstruation is straight up discrimination based on your sex.

    Take Allison’s advice and address it one more time with HR and your boss, but if they don’t remove the incident from your record, I’d think about finding a lawyer to write them the sternest of stern letters.

    1. Screenwriter*

      They’re not “medical” products! They’re perfectly normal, necessary products that every woman needs. It’s like being written up for having a package of kleenex or toilet paper. It’s pure misogyny to make it anything else, to shame women for one of our most natural functions, as though we shamed people for using the toilet. I can’t believe this happened in the 21st century–it’s like something out of the Dark Ages, and so heinously misogynistic I can hardly believe it.

    2. Someone*

      Being a biologically functional woman is not a medical condition. NOT having a monthly period as a woman before menopause is a medical condition!

      These products are no more medical than toilet paper. And they shouldn’t be considered more sexual than toilet paper, either. Sure, they are related to sexual function… but aren’t indicative of sexual activity.

    3. Kathleen_A*

      I don’t think we should jump on Totally Minnie for a slip-of-the-keyboard. Her point is perfectly valid, and it still makes sense if you overlook that “medical” word.

      Besides, even if tampons were a “medical product,” which they aren’t, that doesn’t change her point at all. The main point, on which we can pretty much all agree, is that the complainer was waaaaay out of line and HR and the OP’s supervisor were waaaaay, waaaaaaaay, waaaaaaaaaaaay out of line.

    4. Totally Minnie*

      Sorry, wrong word choice there, I was just so enraged I couldn’t think of the term I wanted. Sanitary or hygiene products would have been a better choice.

      Either way, I still think that if OP1, follow up conversation with HR doesn’t go well, she should ask a lawyer to send the company a letter about their discriminatory write-up.

    5. Emilia Bedelia*

      Allow me to be a pedant here for a moment- tampons and pads are actually classified as medical devices by the FDA (along with things like Band-Aids, gauze, and condoms). So, it is not inaccurate to describe them as such.

  32. Detective Amy Santiago*

    OP#4

    Sadly, unless there are Very Specific criteria required to receive a specific rating, it’s a subjective measure and unlikely to have a positive influence on your candidacy.

    If you really are exceeding expectations, then you should be able to come up with some specific examples of things you’ve done that contributed to that. Those will be a far better way to sell yourself.

    1. Dot Warner*

      Came here to say this! OP4, did your boss give any details as to why you received an Exceeds Expectations? If yes, you could probably put a brief summary of that on your resume.

    2. nosilycuriously*

      Yes! Perhaps you can go over your performance reviews where you were highly rated and pick out specific accomplishments to include in your resume that highlight why you would be a great fit for the position you’re applying to, which will give way more context than just the rating.

    3. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      Yes! This sort of thing is tough because it has personal meaning to OP, but not so much to an outside employer. It makes me think of people who list their GPA in their resume.

      Focus on the work that led to the rating, OP4, not the rating itself.

    4. CityMouse*

      It would be relevant to bring up in an interview, though. Although, I would be clear where it falls in a scale. Like if there is an “Outstanding” above that, I probably wouldn’t tout that quite as much.

    5. Liane*

      I wouldn’t put it on a resume (or bring up in an interview, unless they asked about reviews) but I would keep any copies you get. I am pretty sure we have had questions here where someone was getting great reviews then suddenly was not because a new manager didn’t like them or HR/C Suite came up with a crazy directive like “it’s unfair to give Outstanding” or “everyone must have at least 1 Needs Improvement because Goals!”

    6. OP#4*

      Yes! There are specific things that were used to justify the rating, and I can definitely keep those in mind for interviews. And I’ll look through them again to see if there’s anything I can pull out and use on my resume. I realized yesterday that my resume needs a bit more work on the bullet points for my current position – it’s too boring and doesn’t grab one’s attention, so this could help. Also, someone mentioned there might be a higher grade above EE, but in this case, that’s the highest grade an employee can get. I was especially excited to see it because (1) I’m job searching, and it has helped my confidence, and (2) I’ve been getting the grade just below EE (I can’t remember what we call it) for years, and I know my company and our client are very happy with my work, so it was great to see the EE this time.

  33. Jael*

    I went through a spell where I had my period all the time. Really. 20+ days out of every month. I started unexpectedly one day (before it revealed itself as a distressing pattern), and before I could get to the bathroom, blood was running into my shoe. I guess she would’ve had to have been resuscitated if she had seen that.

    I wonder what the reaction would be to a Depends?

    1. Not Australian*

      “I wonder what the reaction would be to a Depends?”

      MTE. And, since so many people in the workplace are also part-time carers for family members with significant health issues, that could quite well have been the least of it.

      What would a male member of staff have had to leave visible in his car to get the same reaction, I wonder?

  34. Detective Amy Santiago*

    OP#5

    I’ve noticed that resumes generated through Indeed will always include this, but most people do not include it when they make their own. A lot of job applications will ask if you are authorized to work in the US or if you need sponsorship.

    1. Chocolate Teapot*

      Yes, I have seen a line at the bottom of a job advert saying something like “Only applicants holding EU nationality or the correct residence permit will be considered”

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I know there are some financial industries in the US that require you to be a citizen to work there. Something to do with a regulatory body.

        1. Bea*

          There are DOD contracts that require it as well. You can’t be certified without making sure only American citizens have access to those projects. Even if the foreign born staff is in a different division you must prove they have no access to the files in case they could dig it up on a whim etc.

          It’s all about security risk to the economy.

      2. Megpie71*

        It’s a Thing in Australia as well – comments about citizenship, visa status, working rights and so on. To the point where it’s a Thing you can have stored on your Seek.com.au profiles. I blame Pauline Hanson.

      3. Bagpuss*

        In the UK, employers are now required to check that their employees are entitled to work in this country. However, I haven’t seen information on CVs or applications. I think most companies check everyone, at the same time as checking references.
        That approach is what is recommended by ACAS – partly because having it as part of your routine for every new hire means that there is a lower risk of actual or perceived discrimination.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          We’re required in the US to check as well. We have a form we have to fill out called an I-9 and then there is a program employers can opt into using called “e-verify” that let’s you check that the information provided on the I-9 was accurate.

      4. Amylou*

        If the job is in the EU, if you want to hire a non-EU person and who does not have the eligibility to work already, usually the company has to apply to the government for a visa. Company needs to prove they CANNOT find anyone in the ENTIRE European Union (28, soon 27 countries) who fulfills the requirements for that job before a work permit is issued… very unlikely scenario…

        If it is very highly specialized, it can happen. If you are non-EU and looking for entry-level or non-specialized jobs… good luck.

    2. CityMouse*

      Website auto generated resumes are just the worst. If you are given an opportunity to submit a personalized resume, you should.

  35. Cary*

    Letter 1

    The co-worker, HR Manager, and the line manager (who are all female per Alison’s note) really need to spend their time on more important activities like over throwing the patriarchy.

    2. double spicy*

      This comment and the suggestion Alison linked to from Twitter about creating a briefcase and accessories out of pads/tampons are the best. OP, I hope things get better for you and that you can share a good update in the future!

  36. MarkA*

    OPS#1 I can’t add anything bu outrage on your behalf.
    if it were me, I’d be taking out a grievance procedure.

    I’d also be worried if I’d get written up for just having a messy car!
    Can you imagine the reaction if you left some condoms on the back seat…

    1. Soz*

      God yes – if you can get written up for having a messy car I would be in serious triouble! That includes sometimes having random (clean, in their pacaging) pads around.

      I’m interested to know if she would have been written up for having loo roll around. As I see loo role as basically having the same function. Both should be provided by workplace just in case!

      1. tangerineRose*

        Or what about if they were noticed in the LW’s purse? I keep some pads in my purse. They’re in a zippered section, but I’ve got other stuff in that section, what if I opened it to get the other stuff and someone somehow saw the pads!!!! They aren’t even concealed by a grocery bag. Honestly, I don’t get why anyone would be offended by this or why HR would write someone up for this.

  37. FreeThePad*

    Most tech companies in San Francisco provide feminine hygiene products for free to their employees. They are in baskets in the bathrooms. I think the complainer’s head would explode if she worked at one of those offices.

    What about the machines in the bathroom that you pay for a tampon or pad? Are those going to be covered up so as to not further offend the complainer?

    Does the complainer not shop at a grocery store or Target? Does she change the channel when a tampon commercial comes on?

    This complaint and response by HR is so absolutely ridiculous.

    2. KarenK*

      My father is in a long-term care facility, and they have a nice basket of both pads and tampons in their public restroom.

    3. Not That Jane*

      A friend who works there told me Google has free tampons and pads in all restrooms regardless of gender. To be inclusive of trans men who menstruate. I think that’s so cool.

  38. Undine*

    For #1, in real life she should push back. In an alternative universe, she should email HR & cc whatever group list she’s comfortable and ask for clarification. “It is my understanding that it is not okay to have certain personal items visible in our cars. Could you please clarify which products are okay and which are not? Specifically, which of the following products are banned in cars in the employee parking lot:
    * Mini pads?
    * Toilet paper?
    * Condoms?
    * Diapers (adult and/or child)?
    * Hemorrhoid cream?
    * Birth control pills?
    etc., etc.

    “In addition, does this concern extend to other potentially controversial or offensive items, such as religious medals? And will this be added to the employee handbook?”

    2. CDM*

      Where precisely are the acceptable storage areas for personal items such that women will not get written up, since leaving personal items in our cars is unacceptable? Will we get written up if someone looks inside a purse? Inside a closed desk drawer or office cabinet? If someone unlocks a locked drawer or cabinet and goes inside? Will the company be providing individual locked storage areas for each female employee to safely store necessary personal items out of sight of easily offendable co-workers?

      1. Iris Eyes*

        Preferably with biometic locks, wouldn’t want someone accidentally seeing it because they stole someone’s key or code, also they probably need to be in a special area where said cubbies cannot be looked into, but also somewhere where I can’t tell that they are going to their special cubby because then I’ll know what they are planning to do. And really everyone needs their own personal locking toilet because what if I overhear someone opening a wrapper? Or see something offensive in a trash can?

  39. Defrockz*

    Loving the passive aggressive suggestions for #1.

    I’d be careful about what you bring in the office though, just to CYA. But personally, after finding an employment lawyer, I’d head on over to Costco and buy some bulk boxes/bags of pads/tampons and shove as many as I could in my car’s back seat and window (after parking, of course), so that’s all you can see from the outside.
    If HR wants to have a conversation about it, you can say you didn’t have time to drop them off until after work, but they’re donations for the homeless shelter. Also, that you’re not sure why perfectly legal items in your personal car are subject to company scrutiny that needs to be officially documented on your performance file. I’d also add that you are seeking personal counsel, as you’re concerned about retaliatory discrimination for questioning the ethics behind unnecessary performance write-ups for items residing inside your personal, private property, that were never physically in the office.

    Then actually donate the pads/tampons(highly recommended), or return them if you’re strapped for cash.
    But that’s just my perverted fantasy, obviously do what’s best for you.

    Alison’s advice for asking they remove that from your file is good, but I highly recommend that you do seek counsel. Writing you up for something so extremely petty gives me the impression they might try to pull some other extremely petty stuff if you question, and try to get that off your record. And you want to get that stuff as thoroughly documented as you can.

    Then I’d get your application hustle on, and GTFO. I’m baffled that it made logical sense to go to HR about feminine product packaging being visible in your CAR, but for HR to do anything about that complaint, other than laugh in that woman’s face… I just can’t…

    My trans brothers and sisters fighting for a place to pee in peace, and this chick gets triggered by items for a natural biological function she’s never had the displeasure of experiencing… A lot of trans women I know carry a stash of tampons for their cis sisters in need, because while it’s bittersweet that they’ll never have to experience it, they understand menstruation sucks in almost every way possible, including coming unexpectedly at incredibly inopportune times. They know perhaps better than anyone that nature/biology can be incredibly cruel, so I just don’t get this…

    Good luck!

    1. Deus Cee*

      +1
      Also seriously happy thoughts about the trans women you know who carry spares – that’s just so lovely and generous it’s totally made my day.

    2. Triple Anon*

      It might not have anything to do with being trans. Who knows what the issue is, but it could be completely unrelated.

  40. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

    LW1, You absolutely must push back on this. What is next? Adult incontinence products? Empty fast food bags? If your manager pushes back then seriously consider leaving a workplace where random co-workers can peer into your car and complain about what they see. I don’t understand how the co-worker even saw what was in your car unless they actually stopped and peered inside. Which is a whole other can of worms.

    1. Kuododi*

      Oh seeing what’s inside someones vehicle is not outside the relm of possibility. Personally, I drive a small, used SUV so there is no “trunk” per se just cargo area and back seat. It would be quite realistic for someone walking past my vehicle to be able to glance over and see what’s in my cargo area, or back seat. Again, as others have pointed out unless the person did more than a quick glance, enough to id the amount of coffee cups in my vehicle there’s a serious degree of nosiness being perpetrated.

  41. babblemouth*

    For letter 3: my boss is constantly in a hurry due to be overworked – she’s getting a lot of pressure from above to fix problems no one else seems to understand, and like you, sometimes she comes across as very short in her emails and feedback to me.

    When it becomes too weird, I’ll text her with something like “I need a five minutes chat when you can make time, this isn’t urgent” and she’ll either find me in person and have a quick phone call within the next couple of days. It’s usually all it takes for me to get a sense of what, if anything, is wrong. The key is to make it clear that she doesn’t need to drop everything just to talk to me, and that I’ll find 5 minutes she when does too.

    1. Reba*

      That sounds like a good way to get what you need without making a big Feelings Production out of it, which I think is what OP 3 is partly afraid of!

      OP 3 Alison’s advice is right — this is a work thing, about work communication and getting feedback about your work performance. Those priorities might be lowered during this intense time, but feedback and communication with you are still part of your boss’s remit, not something she would be doing as, like, a favor to you that you have no standing to ask for. I hope it makes sense what I’m trying to get at! You’re not asking to be handled delicately, so don’t assume your boss needs to be, either (barring other info like she has a wild temper or something).

  42. Miss Elaine e*

    Obviously #1 is jaw-droppingly awful and wrong but it brings to mind a former workplace, a hospital. When I hired in, it was emphasized that staff members could not smoke in their cars on hospital property (and, perhaps, not even have tobacco products in those cars (I can’t remember)).
    I get it, the optics and all. But that is very much like the situation in Letter #1.
    Btw, I’m a nonsmoker. It just always stuck me as a very strange rule.

    1. Julia*

      I guess smoking inside a car (which is an enclosed space) would mean the smoker reeks quite a bit?

      1. Tuxedo Cat*

        Yeah. I worked on a campus that had a no smoking policy but employees were allowed to smoke in their cars.

        I think it would’ve been better, scent-wise, if the smokers were allowed to smoke outside but far from the buildings.

    2. Penny Lane*

      On hospital property. Anyway, there’s no comparison between a habit that goes against the mission of the employer (promoting health) and use of products for personal hygiene.

    3. LS*

      I don’t know where you’re from, but in my country hospitals got funding for preventing smoking on the premises, including in the car parks. This meant that anyone entering the hospital had to walk through a long line of smokers stuck out on the footpath right outside, which was not fun for anyone, but hey! They got the funding!

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      A lot of hospitals/medical facilities are non-smoking because of the risk of third hand smoke.

      This is nothing like the situation in #1. People can go for a work shift without a cigarette without endangering their health. A person who is menstruating does not have that luxury.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I have to disagree with you– these situations are not at all the same. Menstruating is a biological function that is pretty common. Smoking is not a biological function. There are risks involved in smoking and then being around other people, particularly ones who are ill. There are no risks involved for someone else when a woman has her period. Maxi pads are toiletries. Cigarettes are not.

    6. Bea*

      It’s due to non smoking campus rules. You’ll get in trouble if you’re a visitor smoking in your car as well.

      When my dad was recovering from surgery they made it clear security would escort you off the campus, all the way outside the sprawling lawns if found smoking.

      So staff can smoke in their cars if they go down to Starbucks or something. Just not in the parking lot.

      Nothing to do about optics there!

      A huge portion of medical professionals still smoke.

    7. Elise*

      As an asthma sufferer I can say that it has nothing to do with optics. If you smoked in your car and walked right into a hospital, you could trigger an asthma attack or make one that is in progress worse. I often hold my breath when walking past smokers outside going into stores and restaurants. I can’t change the whole world, but I do expect hospitals and medical offices to do everything possible not to trigger my asthma symptoms.

      Even if you think you don’t smell (not you specifically since you don’t smoke) you do.

    8. The Original Flavored K*

      Hospitals also have rules about wearing scented perfumes and deodorants (the rule is usually: don’t). It’s not about keeping tobacco products in your car, it’s about exposing patients to something that could potentially affect their health.

    9. Miss Elaine e.*

      I guess I wasn’t clear in my first comment:

      Yes, I get it that smoking is unhealthy and that it does not look good for a hospital staffer to be openly engaging in an unhealthy habit on hospital grounds. (Though, I should mention the irony of the particular situation: While smokers could not smoke discreetly in their own cars, all they had to do was walk across a sideroad to a gas station which had a picnic table set up right on the town’s main road where hospital employees in their scrubs and ID tags could smoke in full view of every passing by in a very busy road.)

      The similarity I see concerns what’s inside a private vehicle. In Letter #1 someone snooped and saw a perfectly legal product. At the hospital, someone could snoop and see a perfectly legal product as well and get written up for it. (Or, engage in using said perfectly legal product in the way it was intended and get written up for it.)

      Again, not a smoker. (Though thanks to those commenters who mentioned the odor, perhaps that was the philosophy.)

    10. Not a Morning Person*

      I know that’s a rule at some manufacturing facilities with very strict cleanliness controls. When smokers were allowed to smoke in their cars, even though they were requested not to litter, they still dropped their cigarette butts in the parking lot and then they and anyone else walking in tracked the tobacco into the building where it was a contamination risk. So the company banned smoking on the property.

  43. Harper the Other One*

    For letter number one, I definitely think the coworker being a trans woman is a red herring unless that workplace (or somehow the letter writer) has a history of transphobic behaviour. I doubt the LW actually does because others the coworker being trans wouldn’t be in a PS!

    Alison, aside from the LW getting the write up taken off their file, is this a situation where you’d recommend a sit-down meeting with the coworker to find out what happened? My immediate reaction is that I’d want the chance to say “hey, what’s going on here?” In a genuinely curious way, but with both coworker and HR seeming so strangely on the same page about this I don’t know if that’s a good idea or not.

    1. Liane*

      IF there was a history* of actual transphobic actions/comments, by OP or anyone else at Ridiculous Inc., then HR and Boss should have already dealt with that immediately, and not by deciding that “Writing up the next employee that indicates she has periods will send A Message that we don’t tolerate trans bigotry!”

      *totally hypothetical, as Alison has said later emails confirm OP is sensitive to trans people

    2. aes_sidhe*

      There is nothing in the first letter that indicates anything about trans that I can find. I’d like to know where people are getting this idea it has anything to do with trans anything.

      1. fposte*

        In a followup from Alison that says the letter writer mentioned it in a subsequent email to her.

        1. aes_sidhe*

          Thanks! I was seriously reading the letter, couldn’t find it mentioned anywhere, and was left scratching my head.

    3. Student*

      The facts of this specific case are so very clear-cut that, even if OP had a history of discriminatory behavior against the complainant, this is still profoundly wrong.

      If OP has such a history, by all means, her boss and HR should punish her for that history of harassment – including firing. There is no evidence whatsoever of that in the letter, though.

      However, punishing her for this specific action is still wrong and it is illegal gender-based discrimination against her, no matter how you slice it. We do not fix discrimination with more discrimination. It’d be wrong to fire her for getting pregnant even if she was racist toward her colleagues. It’d be wrong to fire her for needing to take Sundays off for religious reasons even if she was sexist toward her colleagues. It’d be wrong to fire her for being married, even if she harassed colleagues for their religious beliefs. Fire people for the real problems they create, even if it is hard and requires paperwork and effort – not on convenient pretexts, and especially not on illegal, protected-class pretexts.

      1. Anion*

        Yes. Harassment is wrong. Being a biological woman in need of sanitary products is not. Harassment should be punished. Being a biological woman in need of sanitary products should not.

  44. Humerous Username*

    What the crap?!?!?! Does he complain if he wanders into the aisle in the grocery store??

  45. Easily Amused*

    If she is “not to do it again”, I think OP should go back to HR to ask how they suggest she should transport her toiletries going forward. She could take the bus but that would put the offending products in a cramped public space where the co-worker could someday be. She could order them online but then they might sit out at her front door and what if her co-worker walked by?! I mean how HOW can she get them home privately? What is she to do next time she has to shop for undergarments?! I think life would just be easier if said co-worker stopped peeping in other people’s cars.

    1. Short fuse*

      I would like to know what would happen if LW came in with a note from her OBGYN. “LW must have feminine hygiene products near her at all times, due to regular bodily functions.”

      1. Murphy*

        I kind of like the idea of getting a doctor’s note. “OP has exhibited symptoms of menstruation, a condition which approximately 50% of the population may experience at some point in their lives…”

  46. Hiring Mgr*

    #1, I’m sorry this happened, and it is so over the top insane there’s really nothing to say other than in addition to the writeup, were there specific steps to take to fix things? You know, like a Perfornace Advancement Plan? Even that though would be a Smear on your record.

  47. Zoe Karvounopsina*

    #1: …I am speechless. Earlier this week, I went to my manager, head bowed low, and confessed that I’d accidentally bled on my seat.

    We all acted like adults about it. The Office Manager spoke to the cleaners, and told me where to leave my seat. Admittedly, moving it felt incredibly humiliating, but no one mentioned it.

    (…and then the chair disappeared somehow, but that is not the point)

    1. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

      I’m so so sorry! That’s my worst nightmare. I’m lucky the chairs here are easy to wash, but I’d be mortified to death.

    2. Sled dog mama*

      Oh that I had your boss!
      A few months ago I put in a request for new chairs for me and one of the guys i share an office with (big office, we choose not to have cubish walls so I get sunlight in the far corner and because the other two are rarely in the office), his chair was broken, it didn’t maintain its height (like you sit and sometimes it would drop and sometimes it would slowly sink) , mine is stained and sometimes will suddenly tip forward or backwards.
      Boss came in to ask what kind of chairs we wanted (we said whatever fits the budget and isn’t broken) and when I pointed out that mine was stained he said that I must have stained it and laughed. So totally inappropriate. Coworker has a new, to him, chair (it’s clearly a cast off from somewhere), I am still waiting.
      And let’s not get into the women in our other office who asked for new chairs and new larger computer monitors about a week before I made this request and got them, then three months later their jobs get made completely work from home.

        1. Sled dog mama*

          Yes he is, fortunately since my job is a lot of regulatory compliance and I have to have autonomy to do it, I report to him on paper. In reality this was the one time that week I saw him.

  48. Bookworm*

    WTF @ #1. That’s so creepy and strange. I’m sorry that happened, LW. Hope it works out and there’s a serious shift at your workplace.

  49. Database Developer Dude*

    I would be in jail, because I’d have to beat someone for this. This is insane, but I’m not questioning the authenticity. I’ve seen too much to doubt it. I’m also not surprised that Alison said everyone involved was a woman, because women are more vicious to each other than we men could ever think of being.

    I want to know where this place is, so I never apply there.

    1. Thlayli*

      “Women are more vicious to each other than we men could ever think of being”

      I’m sure you personally aren’t vicious to women, but I’m not sure all men share your laudable desire to not be vicious to women. Many men have done far more awful things to women than report them to HR for having menstrual pads.

      1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

        Women and men tend to go about things differently though. IE, a man will punch another man, but a woman will instigate a smear campaign to humiliate/discredit a woman. In the long run, the smear campaign is far more vicious than straight out punching someone. (Obviously, doesn’t cover the full spectrum of reality, but this sort of difference does exist.)

        1. Kelly L.*

          Men have also instigated smear campaigns to discredit women. I think we do all genders a disservice when we do this “men fight, women backbite” stereotype.

            1. Myrin*

              I was just thinking that. I’ve worked at a gym with five or six regular female members compared to dozens of men for five years and, had I believed this “men are physical and direct and to the point in their aggression, not gossipy and backstabbing” nonsense before that, I’d have been thoroughly disabused of that notion during that time.
              Conversely, save for the two who later got battery charges, I don’t believe any of them regularly punched anyone they disagreed with or more generally wanted to behave negatively towards.

            2. Kelly L.*

              And there’s certainly gossip and drama. Anyone who thinks men don’t gossip and have drama has never worked with any men or had brothers.

              1. Gazebo Slayer*

                Haha, the last thing I heard at work today was several of my male coworkers having a very juicy gossip session…

      2. Yorick*

        Yeah, men rape and kill us, so I don’t think it’s accurate to say women are more vicious to each other than men could ever think of being.

        2. Kelly G*

          Girl yes. +1. Men disproportionately are the arbitrators of violence. Women don’t do nearly half of what men do to women.

    2. Ice and Indigo*

      ‘women are more vicious to each other than we men could ever think of being’

      You know, if you want to advertise that you aren’t nasty to women, characterizing the entire gender as more vicious than men is kind of an ironic start.

      1. Lehigh*

        He also went with “I’d have to beat someone for this” in his opening volley of how men are not vicious so…

  50. bikes*

    OP#1 – Also outraged on your behalf. I’m also wondering what geographic region you live in — I can’t even imagine a place where someone would feel comfortable peeking in your car and monitoring your mundane, every day purchases.

  51. Amelia*

    A coworker I barely know once left a bag with two pairs of bloody underwear in my car. It was gross but even that didn’t warrant a call to HR…

      1. Amelia*

        I mean, I assume it wasn’t on purpose. But who knows. (I was taking her to the airport after a conference)

        1. The Original K.*

          Oh! I thought you meant she broke into your car and left them there maliciously. I was thinking “That probably DOES warrant a call to HR …”

    2. Bea*

      Omg I imagine she was so humiliated when she got to her destination and realized she lost the bag!! She probably had a bleed through and was taking them away to wash/discard :( Been there, done that but thankfully never left them behind unless a trash can counts (always wrapped and buried in that case).

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        Yeah, this is where you just fervently hope that you were pickpocketed at the airport by a criminal collecting a huge karmic debt.

  52. All. Is. On.*

    It’s petty, but I’d be checking co-worker’s car daily to see what she’s got laying around. And I’d definitely bring up the (loose french fries on the floor/faded stuffed dice hanging from the rearview mirror etc.) if there is another complaint from her.

    1. Gaz112*

      Few things warrant instant dismissal, but furry dice hanging from the rearview mirror would certainly be one of them :-)

  54. Mrs B*

    For OP#1, Putting the absurdity of the complaint aside, I think perhaps HR may just have a policy in which all complaints are documented and followed up on. Working in public service our HR is required to do this, no matter how ridiculous the situation may seem. For example, we once received a complaint that when staff goes on break, the smell of their food is noticeable. HR contacted us and investigated to determine if there was perhaps an agreeable solution. Were staff eating somewhere other than their designated break area? Was the food being burnt, or containing items that could potentially trigger an asthma or allergy attack? Turns out the complaint was one of “the food smelled so good and I’m on a diet”, but still HR had to log the complaint and document steps taken to see if could be resolved, and other than a memo stating that hot foods should only be consumed in the break room, and we should be mindful to keep the door shut, it really couldn’t be, but HR had a record that it heard and investigated the complaint. As far as OP #1 being written up, there is often a big difference between a document stating a conversation took place, and a disciplinary action report. The write up might even work in OP’s favor, creating a paper trail of the other employees complaint history. This way they have back up if the complainant wants to take action claiming workplace discrimination or hostile work environment down the line, showing that every instance was looked into and solutions discussed. From an HR perspective I could see telling someone they are being too sensitive or get over it no matter how much you might want to is a potential liability. That said, if I were called in for this kind of on the record conversation it would bother me, and I’d want to ask for clarification on why it took place.

    1. Scarlet*

      They could log the complaint without actually writing up OP for it…
      Just because you log a complaint doesn’t mean you have to act on it.

  55. Here*

    OP #4 – You should be given a copy of your signed review. Assuming it details what you were reviewed on and what the criteria was for exceeding expectations, I keep a copy of mine. Near the end of some interviews (typically if the evaluation is relevant to the job applying for), I have given the interviewer copies of my reviews as validation of my quality of work and what I can bring to the table. I do know for a fact it played a part in me being offered my last position. Again, it is important the evaluation explain what the criteria was and how you exceeded.

    1. Darury*

      Unless of course, you get a new manager late in the review cycle who proceeds to take your former manager’s review of which documents you as rock star and downgrades it so you look like a mediocre roadie. New manager doesn’t actually provide any feedback on why this is done. To be fair, I never even GOT my last review, just the letter saying “based on your performance as a mediocre roadie, here’s your raise”.

  56. Squeegee Beckenheim*

    When Alison posted about this on twitter I thought maybe the pad lady worked at some kind of ultra-hippie green company and they were upset she was using disposable products instead of a menstrual cup or washable pads or whatnot. It would still be ridiculous, of course, but at least that I could kind of understand. This makes no sense to me whatsoever.

  57. Caledonia*

    I would have thought post 1 would be a standalone post as the majority of the comments are addressing and/or being outraged on OP1’s behalf.

    Especially given the twitter post about it – I fail to see how Alison could not predict this. I can and have no exp in such things.

    1. Myrin*

      Alison actually adressed that above. She said: “I thought about [making it a standalone post]! But the vast majority of readers don’t participate in the comment section, and I factor that in too — that first and foremost I want an interesting mix of letters in the short-answer posts.”

      1. Caledonia*

        I collapse comments so….yeah.

        And my point stands – 4 answers were an interesting mix.

  58. S Stout*

    #1: This is not a place you want to work (it’s very hard for me to believe this is the first crazy thing that has happened!). Find a better job!

  59. HRM*

    #1 – this is deeply, deeply misogynistic. I understand the other people involved were also women but internalized misogyny is real yall.

  60. Gollum*

    I have never more wanted an update than for LW #1. Please tell us you pushed back against HR on this nonsense?

  61. Guy Incognito*

    Everything about letter 1 has been covered (and is 100% wrong… unless you’ve got a child or an animal trapped in your car, why does anything matter?) but this is a horrible invasion of privacy.

    Look, we all sometimes look to see what’s in cars as we pass by, or it enters our field of vision. But if your thought is anything other than “wow that’s a lot of fast food wrappers” or “how can they see with that life sized picture of Dean from Supernatural on the back window” and moving on with your life, then this speaks to a deeper issue with your co-worker. This is misogynistic behavior (yes, from other women), but it’s also part of why I speak out against office busybodies, and why they’re terrible for office morale.

    Everyone acted badly in this scenario (other than the OP, who should be commended that her letter doesn’t start, “I’m using my one phone call to ask a question about something that happened at work the other day”) the OP shouldn’t have been written up, the co-worker shouldn’t even have been looking in her car. HR’s involvement should have been to look into the reason that this co-worker was taking the time to catalog what was in other people’s cars.

    If I were the OP, I would organize everyone in the office to go out, buy pads, and leave them in their cars in plain sight on a daily basis until the write-up is removed and the busybody coworker is disciplined.

    1. Whoa*

      Ugh, yes. Your car is your personal property, and the only exception to the “mind your own business rule” should be if you see something dangerous (a child or animal left alone or even the keys in the ignition) like you said and/or threatening (a gun, hand grenades, supplies for a bomb etc). Over the years I’ve had some weird stuff in my car from various projects and cosplays, and I would be furious if someone ever complained about my own personal items in my own car. I would definitely be pushing back and would start looking elsewhere for a new job that isn’t filled with nosy busybodies.

    2. Bow Ties Are Cool*

      Seriously. I take the bus to work, but if this happened to a coworker of mine you can bet there would be boxes of product stacked on the most visible corner of my desk posthaste. Go ahead, write me up. I will greatly enjoy sending a lawyer your way.

  62. EE*

    To No.5:

    As a foreign-born resident of Australia, I put my visa status on my CV. Since otherwise recruiters look at my educational background and work experience and assume I’m on a six-month visa. No – I have unrestricted working rights.

    If your accent on the phone and your history on your CV match your citizenship, then there’s no need for you to do the same.

  63. Hiring Mgr*

    On #1, maybe it’s been mentioned in the comments already, but did you know this co-worker well? Have you had normal interactions with her up until this point? Did you speak with her at all about it afterward, like about what exactly she was upset about? It’s just mind blowingly absurd

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I can completely understand why the OP might not want to, but overall, I agree — I’d really like to know how a conversation directly with the coworker would go!

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Yeah, I’d really like to know the exact nature of the complaint. Was the complainer alleging that LW was somehow being transphobic for having sanitary napkins in her car? Or was it simply the existence of said products where *gasp* someone might see? The whole situation is just utterly baffling.

        Like, if the backseat of my car in a shopping bag isn’t private, WTF is?

  64. Jess*

    1. You are to keep these items private? Um, you did … they were in your car. Co-worker needs to stop peaking in windows.

  65. aes_sidhe*

    I have no words for LW #1. I honestly can’t comprehend the insanity of the situation.

  66. Xarcady*

    #1. I want to know what HR claimed the LW did wrong. What company policy was violated? In the LW’s shoes, I’d be reading the policy manual cover to cover, and then going back to HR to ask which policy was broken. Because I strongly suspect there is no policy about what employees have in their cars.

    And if HR claims there is such a policy, or it is an interpretation of an existing policy, I would demand that this interpretation be made known to all employees, so that no one could ever make the same mistake again.
    Just imagine the memo that would go out.

    “To: All employees. Re: Menstrual products in cars.

    As of this date, no one employed by Greater Teapots, Inc. shall at any time have menstrual products of any kind, including but not limited to: maxi pads, mini pads, panty liners, tampons, Diva cups, moon cups, washable pads, visible to other employees at any time or in any place while on company property.

    “This includes employee workstations, the restrooms, employee cars, employee tote bags or knapsacks. While transporting said items from workarea to restrooms for individual use, employees should make sure that no one can see any trace of the product. If transporting said supplies in a store-provided shopping bag, whether for personal use or otherwise, the bag must completely hide the products. Ask the store to double-bag the products if necessary or transfer the products to an opaque bag/tote/briefcase.

    “A written warning will be issued for the first offence, as per our usual disciplinary actions procedure.“

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Yes, to write her up for a rule that does not even exist is absurd. What other rules should she know about that don’t exist?

      “HR and Boss, I am mortified that I broke this rule that no one knew existed. I wish to rectify the situation to my very best ability. Please notify me in writing of any other rules that do not exist. My goal has always been to be a model employee.”

  67. Imaginary Number*

    Is anyone else particularly shocked by the fact that the coworker reporting this was also a woman?

    I mean, I get it, other women can be some of the worst offenders when it comes to gender discrimination. But that’s usually due to trying to prove that they’re “one of the guys.” Freaking out about maxi pads that literally no one else saw does not fall into that category.

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      People can be weird. In a panoply of endlessly inventive ways.

      What gets me isn’t so much the coworker being crazy, but HR and the manager not dropping her complaint into a circular file. It seems like some epic masterpiece of managing by never pushing back on anything.

    2. Sylvan*

      Not really, if it actually happened: People are strange.

      I used to spend a lot of time on a forum where people would get angry if posts that mentioned periods didn’t include a trigger warning. There were trans men who didn’t want to talk about menstruation, trans women who didn’t want to be reminded of it, and others who found it upsetting for whatever reason.

      Note “used to;” that was far from the only problem!

      1. Lindsay J*

        One of the reasons I would up taking a large step back from a Livejournal community I was part of at one point was when I found myself about to make a post about menstrual blood paintings, and I couldn’t decide whether or not I needed to put a trigger warning.

        Because there were people who might be triggered by the sight of blood, trans people who might experience dysphoria when reminded of periods, etc. But then if I did put a trigger warning on it I would be perpetuating the idea that periods, and by extension, women’s bodies, are somehow shameful or gross.

        I closed out the browser and didn’t started severely limiting my time in that community. There was no winning, and it felt like everyone was ready to attack people for the slightest slip-up. (And there were a lot of cis-het-white woman speculating about what would be offensive to less privileged groups, without actually asking them what they were offended by, and sometimes ignoring them when they did speak out.)

        2. Gazebo Slayer*

          Somewhere else on the page someone used the phrase “wokeness competition” and that… sounds like one. An especially cringeworthy one, given your last sentence.

          (I’ve also seen the phrase “competitively Christian” used on this site, which I also love.)

    3. Jules the Third*

      My initial assumption was certainly that the coworker was a man, so yes, there is some surprise.

      But a lot of people are still trying to figure out how to be thoughtful to transmen and transwomen, so that detail actually made HR / Mgmt’s actions make more sense. They’re still wrong, but I could see it from a ‘trying to be sensitive to a challenged minority’ viewpoint.

  68. OklahomaSpeaks*

    LW #2: i know you said you don’t have proof but were there any xenophobic comments made by your colleagues or manager? Any jealousy? It would make me anxious to think that 3 people orchestrated such an awful thing, but it sounds like they did to push you out! Or maybe they were afraid of your high quality work. And congratulations on getting another job Having to worry about visa issues Is UGH

    1. Observer*

      It doesn’t have to have been 3 people lying. There are other ways this could have gone down. Say, for instance the manager “let’s it slip” to the office busybody, then everyone else is going “know” about it. The busybody and all the rest would be repeating something false, but no one bu the manager would actually be lying.

  69. Fergus*

    First this is bat shit crazy. But if these were men reprimanding a woman for pads in her car. This would have been a major EEOC violation. i am wondering if there are other things at this company where there is discrimination based on sex and a hostile work environment, because mostly women use these products. She was written up because she did not keep them private. In her own car I think is private.

    1. Imaginary Number*

      I have to wonder if it was actually a female coworker that complained. I mean, there are crazy people out there, but I have to wonder if boss made that up so it seemed like it was coming from another female.

    3. McWhadden*

      EEOC doesn’t require that the person violating Title VII be of a different gender (or race for that matter black people can discriminate against other black people, for example.)

  71. Shrunken Hippo*

    #1 I too think toilet paper is the best comparison to pads: both are used to absorb and dispose of excretions that result from necessary bodily functions. If you take issues with both then fine, I think you’re a bit sensitive but I can respect that for some reason they bother you. However to only be upset by menstrual products (that are still in packaging!!) shows that you have not graduated from middle school yet and should really work on getting that done. So yes, push back hard on this because it is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard of happening in a workplace that is supposedly staffed by grown adults.

  72. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

    OP1:
    The ideas regarding making briefcases out of pads were fun and I’d likely support them if the complainer was a ciswoman or a man. But the fact that the complainer is a trans woman means shoving these products in her face because she complained would be crossing a line.

    That said, she crossed a line first and that needs to be addressed. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that there are no incidents from you prior to this that could be construed as transphobic or bullying her because she is trans. Which means she let her own issues color a normal situation. She’s 100% in the wrong for assuming you merely having pads is transphobic. (Or, if she didn’t think it was an attack, thinking that all menstruating women need to hide the fact that they are because she can’t.)

    You need to meet with HR and deal with this. Ask for clarification.
    If you don’t have assigned parking, ask “she parked next to me, I was here first. How could this be an attack on her when I have no idea who will end up parking next to me?”
    “These were not left on her desk. These are products that I need to use due to a normal bodily function. It seems bordering on gender discrimination to tell me that personal items in my own personal car need to be completely hidden from outside view. What happens if she is in the bathroom at the same time as someone else opening a tampon or pad? I am sympathetic to her sensitivities, but it is unfair that menstruating women in the office be told to pretend like we don’t simply because one cannot. As long as we are not flaunting it, and I fail to see how leaving pads in a bag in my car or using menstrual products is flaunting it, I think the company is getting into dangerous waters telling women they have to pretend their periods don’t exist.”

    Your coworker is projecting like crazy, assuming offense from normal scenarios. But assuming there is nothing that has happened in the past from you or other women in the office that can be construed as othering because she is trans, she is 100% in the wrong here.

    You need to push back on HR with this. I don’t have a recommendation for dealing with the trans woman, other than to not push this in her face in retaliation. Part of me wants to say “talk to her – find out if she viewed this as an attack (and if so, why) or if she just thinks menstruating women should have to hide it because not all women can.” Because maybe you have unknowingly come off as transphobic in the past and this conversation could bring light to that and help you change it. Or it might just be that she’s completely unreasonable about how society should work. But pat of me feels that discussing this with her will just make things worse. I truly don’t know, and I am sorry you are dealing with this insanity.

    1. Emi.*

      No, the complainer is being a loon about menstrual products; pushing back with menstrual products would be just fine. Well, I do think a maxi pad briefcase would be goofy and unprofessional, but it would be that no matter who complained (also, how???).

      1. Jules the Third*

        It changes the jokes, because it makes them punching down instead of punching up.

        The base response, that OP should push back against HR/mgmt, does not change.

        But where tampon earrings in response to a man’s complaint is ‘protesting misogyny’, it gets a lot more complicated with a transwoman’s complaint. Menstrual products are actually used to harass transwomen, to call them ‘not women’ because they were born without functioning uteri. Having them in the car or office as they are needed to fulfill their sanitary function is NOT harassment, but wearing tampon earrings could be.

        1. Kelly L.*

          Yep. Or tampon earrings in response to a prudish cis woman’s complaint would just be petty revenge, which was what I was picturing initially!

        2. Observer*

          That doesn’t really change anything. Th complainer was the person who brought these products into the discussion. If it were just “general” prudery, then I would agree that using these products would be inappropriate. But here they would be a push-back to the specific complaint. The complainer really doesn’t get to be shielded from that because there is a history.

          1. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

            It does change it. If it was general prudishness of a man, based on systemic misogyny, wearing diva cups as earrings punches up at the patriarchy and the misogyny. Knowing that it is a trans woman, and that trans women have historically been attacked and told they aren’t really women through the symbolism of menstruation makes it crossing a line to do in this situation.

            The complainer doesn’t get to be shielded from any acknowledgement that menstruation exists. We’ve already established it is unreasonable for her to request menstruating women hide all proof of that fact. But she shouldn’t have to be harassed by symbols of menstruation because she made one mistake regarding the visibility of menstruation products.

            1. Observer*

              She did not “request” anything, and this was not a mistake. It was a deliberate attempt to punish someone for owning these products. The fact that she chose to use these symbols and to try to enforce an outrageous standard and to hurt someone who is not part of the misogynist patriarchy forfeits her “right” to be protected from the tools she chose to hurt someone else.

              If the OP were to do this (and I actually hope they don’t – too much High school vibe, regardless) this would not be a case of punching down, but punching back at someone.

              1. Anion*

                Thank you. I don’t get the idea that you’re somehow “punching down” at a person whose selfish whims have been placed so high on a pedestal above you.

    3. aes_sidhe*

      It’s irrele that the complainer is trans. It only matters if company policy was violated, and I have a difficult time seeing an employee handbook having a section about Kotex in a personal vehicle.

      1. Lindsay J*

        I mean, you can still be written up for things that are not in the company handbook. A handbook isn’t going to cover every egregious thing a person can think of doing at a job.

        (Like, I’m pretty sure most handbooks don’t have rules about needing to urinate or defecate in a toilet and nowhere else, but an employee at one of my summer jobs got fired for pissing on someone’s car tires in the parking lot, and I don’t really think too many people would argue that he shouldn’t have been even though it wasn’t in the handbook. Or the person in the letter here that shit in a potted plant.)

        There might not be a rule about doing burnouts in the company parking lot, but I can see a company writing up a person for doing them.

        But having tampons in a bag in your car isn’t something a reasonable person could view as illegal, or threatening, or harmful, or destructive, or counter to the company’s interests in any way. And those issues are what most company rules are trying to prevent.

    4. SnarkyLibrarian*

      Where does it say the complainer is a trans woman? I didn’t see that in the letter, and even if she was trans that still doesn’t give her standing to throw such a fit and get her coworker in trouble for having personal items in a bag in her car. It’s letters like these that really make me appreciate my workplace!

      1. Knittyinabrowncoat*

        In the comments towards the beginning of the thread Alison added the detail that during the email exchange with the LW the LW mentioned that the coworker is a trans woman.

    5. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

      Replying to everyone:
      As has been noted elsewhere, menstrual products have been used to target transwomen by ciswomen in the past. The LW might have done something in the past that read as transphobic and so the trans coworker leapt to the wrong conclusion.

      I 100% agree that the trans coworker was over the line for running to HR for seeing pads in someone else’s backseat. That is a complete overreaction, no matter the underlying cause. I 100% agree that the LW needs to address this ridiculousness with HR and have the write-up removed. Everyone should be allowed to keep personal products in their personal vehicles and menstruating women need to be able to keep products in the office to deal with menstruation.

      However, finding out someone acted poorly because of a very real stigma and responding to that by acting poorly yourself is not the answer. LW has discovered that her trans coworker has a sensitivity to pads. Either because she has no idea how society in general should work (aka she thinks because she can’t menstruate everyone else should hide it – which is unreasonable) or because her cis coworkers have made her feel othered in the past, perhaps without even realizing it, and seeing the pads (incorrectly) reinforced the idea that her coworkers are transphobic in her mind. If the coworker believes the ciswomen of the office are transphobic, taking an action that reads as even more transphobic is not the answer. If she believes menstruating women should have to hide the fact that they are, shoving menstrual products in her face is not the way to make her realize she is incorrect.

      After LW clears this up with HR, HR needs to have a discussion with the trans coworker. Because she cannot dictate that menstrual products be completely hidden at all times. But shoving menstrual products in her face because of her complaint is not the answer.

      Having empathy even though someone behave poorly is how situations are best resolved. I am not saying the complaining coworker was right. She wasn’t. I am saying responding by covering the office in pads also isn’t right, given the situation.

    6. Cousin Itt*

      I agree. At the moment the co-worker is being ridiculous and seeing discrimination where there is none, but the suggestions that OP parade the pads in front of her would push it into this territory IMO. Doing that to a transwoman carries the connotation of parading her own ‘inadequacy’ as a woman in front of her that’s downright nasty regardless of her behaviour.

      Sure, it’s a funny suggestion, but I’m not sure why Alison linked to that tweet given the full context.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Yeah, I wrote that before seeing the PS where the trans part was mentioned (and I was thinking of the joke responses as targeting HR/the company). You’re right that taken in the full context, it would be unkind.

  73. Deus Cee*

    LW#2 – there’s maaaaybe the chance that news of the sponsorship wasn’t passed from grandboss to boss? I used to work somewhere where my post was government-funded, renewed yearly, and I wouldn’t officially be told I still had a job like, ever, but if I asked my line manager and HR were breezy about it, “don’t worry, this gets renewed, just assume everything’s fine”. I’d be coming into work and only hearing that my contract was officially renewed weeks after the previous one would have expired, so there’s potentially a case for just poor communication. However, I’m really giving them the benefit of the doubt here, and it sounds more like your coworkers and boss suck and you’re going to be much better off elsewhere. But do bring this to the attention of grandboss – they’re down one good worker and it’s going to cost them to replace you; you’d had no intention of leaving otherwise, so your boss/coworkers are actively undermining the company.

  74. CheeryO*

    OP #3, I can relate; my boss is constantly swamped, and things have gotten worse lately for a variety of reasons, and I feel like he’s been more curt/critical with me. I think Alison’s advice is good, but I also think it’s okay to just ride it out if that’s what you want to do. Personally, I have never felt comfortable having conversations like that outside of performance reviews, because it just feels like adding to his burden by asking for validation. If he’s a good boss, he won’t surprise you with disciplinary action. If there is something that really needs to be addressed, it’s part of his job to identify it and bring it up with you. You shouldn’t have to dance around it.

  75. Someone else*

    The only possible theoretical scenario I can think of where #1 makes ANY sense is if this is one of those companies that does have a “clean car” policy, such that they ask employees not to have any stuff out and visible in their cars at all. Presumably to control the optics for any clients who visit and might see messy cars or who knows what. But if that were the case, I imagine they would’ve told LW that’s what it was about, not the specific contents of the shopping bag, but the bag’s presence and visibility from outside the car (in which case yes, they would also object to toothpaste). And if they’d told her that in the write up, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Which makes the whole thing fucking absurd.

    1. Triple Anon*

      The only explanation I can think of is if there was something written on the bag that made it look like it was meant to harass the co-worker. In other words, if there were important details missing from the letter or more to the story, like someone having told her to look in the car? But that doesn’t seem to be the case.

  76. NW Mossy*

    Can we all just agree that unless a co-worker’s locked car contains a live animal or a dead body, we can keep our thoughts on car contents to ourselves?

      1. Guy Incognito*

        Then you thank them for holding of the garden gnome menace.

        My grandfather often spoke of the upcoming Garden Gnome/Human war.

        1. President Porpoise*

          … I think we should also interfere if the body is dead, too. It’s just so much worse.

  77. Triple Anon*

    Bad Advice From Triple:

    Get together with a bunch of female co-workers and approach the boss as a group. Say, “We that feminine hygiene products are now off limits on company property. Many of us don’t currently own the right kind of wardrobe to accommodate this. Could we please be given a spending allowance for thick black pants?”

  78. lnelson1218*

    to #1:

    Seriously? Someone needs a reality check and a life and it isn’t the person who wrote in.

  79. This Daydreamer*

    OP1, I hardly know where to start. How are you supposed to handle work days when you’re having your period? Carry your pads around in a locked briefcase? Make sure no one else is in the restroom at the same time when you have to change pads? Stay home to avoid making the office spiritually unclean?

    In your place, I would be highly tempted to look up tampon crafts on Pinterest and redecorate my desk. Probably not a good idea, but it would be fun.

    1. Ex-Academic, Future Accountant*

      Yes! I’d be fascinated to know if HR saw reason in the end, or doubled down, or what.

  81. crankypants*

    I’d honestly ask HR if you should be calling out sick when you have your period. If you can’t have them in your car, how can you have them at work?

    1. SoCalHR*

      haha yeah, “I need to apply for intermittent FMLA” “Why?” “well, apparently the necessary supplies for my ‘medical condition’, you know, being a woman, is contraband so I need medical leave as accommodation – it would be great if you could hire a temp to cover my desk while I’m gone”

  83. hello everybody!*

    #5: I’ve seen that show up a lot when we were doing internship applications, a lot of candidates with “non-anglo-sounding” names would put “U.S. Citizen” at the top of their resumes. We’re in a city with a lot of international students and they mostly all came from one university (we had a relationship with that uni, although we did accept interns from other ones), so I wondered if they were being told to do that by a group in the university.

    The internship applications were different from other general hires and didn’t go through the regular system, which asks work/citizenship status. I assume they were trying to avoid instinctive racism of people thinking “that name sounds foreign, they must be applying for a job we can’t give them since we can only hire citizens”. As someone whose parents gave her the most anglo personal name possible to avoid that, and whose grandfather changed our family name because of it, I totally understand their reasoning.

  84. Emi.*

    #4 Does it make sense to include your performance rating when you’re applying for a new job within the same organization, or do different offices apply the same standards too differently? What about when applying from one federal job to another? (I’m not sure how standardized things are between agencies.)

    1. OP#4*

      I don’t think that would help me because I’m a contractor. My actual employer gave me the review, based on feedback from the client, but the client didn’t actually write it. I suppose if I were looking for another contract position while keeping the same actual employer, it might be helpful.

    2. Short & Dumpy*

      The form & categories are fairly standard across agencies within each Department (at least the two Depts. I’ve worked for). But there is NO consistency across managers. My current management is quite proud that they have never in their entire career allowed someone down-chain to receive an exceptional (5). The very best get 4s, most get 3s. My previous two offices, 5s were common for top performers, most people got 4s, and 3s meant “as soon as we get a spare minute we will be putting you on a PIP”.

      Show your accomplishments and/or your comparitive success

  85. Sylvan*

    The first one reads like it was engineered to start arguments and/or wokeness competitions.

    Anyway, coworker needs to mind her own business, HR needs to be less dumb, I have nothing to say that hasn’t already been said.

    1. PersephoneUnderground*

      Eh, if you want to start an argument you need something that has some chance of a dissenting opinion. This really, really doesn’t. You have to add grey area to get any arguments except from the sarcastic or deliberately obtuse- like if she had them at least out in a common area you might have *some small chance* of argument about it. But this letter? Nope, too straightforward. It is very schadenfreude (satisfying, not sure if I’m using the term correctly grammatically) picturing anyone going through with the outraged imaginary responses though :).

    2. SoCalHR*

      I’m sure Allison is at the point where nothing surprises her anymore (although this sounds like it may be close). Even in my less broad HR/management experience I could tell stories that would have you thinking it was engineered to start arguments. Truth is, some people/companies are just that crazy – fiction isn’t needed!

  86. Nariko*

    #! – Oh I am enraged. For reference, I am an HR Director. March into your HR department, talk to your director (or whoever is highest on their chain of command,) and let them know that you are making a formal complaint of gender discrimination. I will bet you they have never written someone up for gender-neutral toiletries being visible, and writing up for feminine-specific toiletries is discrimination. Bring it on sister.

    1. PersephoneUnderground*

      Nariko- That “#!” is the best typo ever. Says so much in two keystrokes, doesn’t it? :P

  87. PersephoneUnderground*

    OP#1 – Haven’t read the thread, but even though I realize there is very little to add I had to say…

    OMG you *have* to report your office to the proper authorities! Because child labor is illegal. And the only conclusion I can reasonably draw from this story is that both your coworker and your boss are 12-year-olds.

  88. ReBecCa from TriBeCa*

    Good thing for your co worker that she doesn’t quirk for CVS or Duane Reade. They have a whole shelf with packages of the filthy, er I mean sanitary product.

  89. Mockingjay*

    OP 3: Your boss needs help.

    You say that “I’ve been trying to speak up and step forward more, taking a more aggressive role…and his responses to that have been blunt and critical.” Being proactive is good, but maybe the things that you are trying to handle are not what your boss needs taken care of right now.

    Instead, ask him directly what HE needs. What specific things can you help him with during this workload surge? Offer to take routine tasks so he can concentrate on priorities. Are there others in the department who can also help?

    You want feedback on your performance, but in his shoes, that adds one more item to his long to-do list. Help him out, get him through this crunch, and schedule a feedback meeting after the situation resolves. I am sure you will have a meaningful conversation regarding your support, professionalism, and goals.

    1. SpaceNovice*

      Seconding this comment. Help him out in any way you can. Not only is the right thing to do, but people remember that sort of thing.

  90. SpaceNovice*

    OP5: I always put citizenship on there. It helps the employer check off a question from the beginning. (It can be replaced by clearance but also exposing your clearance level is an issue.)

  91. Admin 4 Life*

    OP#5 – I wasn’t getting any in person interviews in the US until I put that I’m a US citizen in my cover letter. My earliest jobs were in the US but my last job of six years was in a foreign country. When we moved back to the US the hiring managers would assume that I would need a bridging visa or some kind of sponsorship to work in the US again and it would get brought up when I did get phone screens because most companies don’t do that kind of leg work for admins.

    As soon as I added my status to my cover letter I went from one phone screen in two weeks to six phone screens in one week, all in the same line of work.

    I can see why people put it on there – especially in some states where there is a lot of pressure to not hire illegal immigrants and the person applying may have an ethnic sounding name. I know it’s something I’ll do again if I ever decide to move on from my current job.

    1. Kimberlee, no longer Esq.*

      Yeah, it’s a piece of advice I would give to anyone who has worked or studied recently outside the US, to put that you’re a citizen (or eligible to work in the country without visa assistance, or whatever is true) on your resume and maybe again in your cover letter. It feels a bit icky to have to do it, but a lot of companies (for good reason!) just don’t have the resources or knowledge to help folks get work authorization, and if you make it clear that they can treat you like any other American applicant, it’s worth removing that obstacle.

    2. Falling Diphthong*

      I think this is one of those common sense places where making a symbolic stand about discrimination based on presumed immigration status should fairly bow to “need to eat” and “need to function in society as it is, not a hypothetical other society.”

  92. mf*

    #1: I would march into HR with a list of question about their menstrual product policy just to make a point of how stupid this is:

    Where is the policy about where employees are allowed to store menstrual products? Can I have a copy of it? Are certain products approved for usage while others aren’t? Am I allowed to keep menstrual products in the trunk of my car (if not in the back/front seat)? What about the glove box? How about my purse? My desk? My pockets? What if I accidentally reveal a menstrual product while at work (like if a tampon falls out of my purse)? What if I accidentally have a bit of leakage while at work? Will I be written up for that? If I’m not allowed to have menstrual products in my car, am I allowed to have them at home? What if they are visible in my home? What if a coworker walks by, peaks into my window, and sees a box of pads in my home?

  93. smoke tree*

    What really gets me about the first letter (apart from everything) is that multiple people were involved in this chain of events. The coworker thought it was noteworthy enough to complain about (Why does she care? Why was she looking in the car in the first place?). HR and the boss both took the “complaint” seriously for unfathomable reasons of their own. LW, any chance you are a time-traveller working in a medieval monastery? If so, I suppose you should count yourself lucky that you weren’t burned as a witch for owning a car.

  94. CZ*

    #1 is UNBELIEVABLY RIDICULOUS! First of all, who complains about seeing feminine hygiene products in a car. What is their problem anyway? What do they do at the store, where there is a whole aisle, LOL. Secondly, what HR dept gives credence to a stupid complaint like that? I am amazed they would dare write someone up for that. Wow.

  95. CatCat*

    Ooooooh #1 is just so ridiculous and angering. I would raise the issue and note that, “It *was* private. It was in a bag in the back seat of my personal vehicle.”

    Honestly, I’d start spreading the word about being written up about this because it is so absurd and because other people should know they could be likewise written up for this.

  96. essEss*

    I’m just livid. The OP was written up for having a perfectly legal product in her personal car. A legal product, I might add, that has no reason for being vilified since it is simply a variation of a compression bandage. Either they are being written up for having a product used by women (which is definitely hitting the harassment laws about disciplinary actions for being female) or they are being written up for having personal hygiene products in their own personal vehicle so anyone with basic band-aids in their office desks must also get written up.

  97. Lady Phoenix*

    #1: Demand to see where in the employee handbook is the ruling for not having menustrating products in your car. If they can’t, mention that you have a case of harassment.

    1. fposte*

      None of that is really true, though; it doesn’t have to be in the employee handbook to be a rule, and whether it’s harassment or not isn’t going to be affected by whether it’s in the handbook. (It’s also not harassment. It’s potentially discriminatory, but that’s not the same thing.)

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Eh, if this is how HR flies then it’s kind of foreseeable that they would go into a tizzy because there is no rule in the handbook about pads on car seats. Having worked with people who are probably family and friends of HR and Boss in this story. I do know that this technique DOES work. You have to go into the thick of their absurdity with them, they become overwhelmed and start backing out. Sometimes it’s the only way to get logic to prevail.

  98. Marvel*

    Hey, cis folks? Can you please, before getting super up in arms about things you view as transphobic, actually consider that perhaps you are not the person who gets to define what is and is not transphobia?

    I mean, I’m not either. I don’t get to speak for a whole community just because I’m a part of it. But you ESPECIALLY do not get to do that, and I’m seeing a lot of “X is CLEARLY transphobia” when I do not think that is the case, and most subsets of the overall trans community I’ve been a part of wouldn’t, either.

    There is a fine line between being an ally and speaking up against oppression of a minority group, and talking over that minority group in the process. I think some of you are crossing it and that’s worth thinking about.

    1. LBK*

      Genuine question: you wouldn’t find someone parading around with a tampon necklace and pads stuck all over themselves in response to your complaint to be kinda transphobic? As one of the people I believe you’re responding to with this comment, I just want to be clear that those retaliatory suggestions/jokes are what I was taking issue with. The OP having pads in her car is obviously not transphobic.

      As an ally I only get my understanding of these things from other trans people; I’m certainly not deciding of my own volition what I believe to be transphobic. Obviously no one speaks for the whole community one way or the other, but it’s by listening to trans people that I’ve gotten the impression that menstruation is something that’s often rubbed in trans women’s faces by people who want to deny them their validity as women. If that’s an incorrect impression then I apologize for not understanding.

      1. Marvel*

        I mean, first off I think those are mostly silly suggestions rather than things people would ever actually DO, which may be part of why I’m not bothered by it–but no, it doesn’t read as transphobic to me. The reason why it’s transphobic is usually because it’s specifically a response to them being trans. That’s it. There’s nothing prompting the action, it’s just “hahaha you don’t menstruate” or an attempt to assert their TRUE WOMANHOOD! in contrast to her “fake” womanhood. But as a response to an actual attempt to censor someone’s biology, I think it’s apt, honestly. I would treat it exactly as I’d treat it if it were anyone else’s–man or woman, cis or trans. But that’s me.

        It’s hard because sometimes treating people fairly means treating them the same, and sometimes it means treating them differently. In this case I come down on the side of “treat trans people the same as cis people,” but it’s going to be different for everyone.

        Disclaimer: I do not identify as a trans woman. I don’t know if any of my trans female friends and acquaintances would see this differently. Probably some of them would and some wouldn’t, which has been my experience with similar issues in trans communities. We’re really incredibly philosophically diverse.

        1. Cousin Itt*

          I agree that the tampon earrings and other suggestions were unlikely to be carried out, but, speaking hypothetically and setting aside the question of whether it would be offensive to co worker, if the OP did go through with this it would lend more credence to idea of the initial complaint (that OP is transphobic and intentionally targeting the co worker via menstrual product) and damage her case.

        2. LBK*

          Thanks for the follow up. I think I’m coming at it from the perspective of assuming that the reason the coworker freaked out in the first place is because of some specific sensitivity to menstrual products as a trans woman – so that she’s already feeling like it was a targeted attack of some kind (which, to be clear, is a bonkers perception). I would worry that doubling down (which I agree was mostly a joke) would just feel like driving the nail in even farther, even if that wasn’t my intent and that it was meant, as you say, as a response to someone trying to censor my own biology.

          In other words, I wouldn’t want to retaliate that way against someone who lashed out because they felt like they were being attacked – as opposed to doing it to someone who was just unfairly grossed out and thought that should be private, which is what I would assume the motivation would be if a cis woman or a man had reported it. It’s not about being overly cautious because she’s a trans woman; it *is* about treating her the same as anyone else, which in this case means not continuing to do something that someone has indicated is hurtful to them. The reason her being trans is relevant is because it adds nuance to her possible motivation (ie pain vs disgust).

          If a homophobe feels grossed out by seeing me kiss my boyfriend, you can be sure I’m gonna respond by laying the grossest, sloppiest kiss on him I can. But if someone’s annoyed at me for talking about my boyfriend because they just went through a rough breakup, I’m not gonna dig in on talking about him because that’s just rude.

          1. Marvel*

            I definitely agree with everything you’re saying here, even if we disagree on whether to apply the transphobic label. Doubling down like that in real life would be just as bonkers as the original complaint was, I think. At best unhelpful, at worst potentially transphobic.

            1. LBK*

              Completely agreed – I think it’s less about whether, in a vacuum, the suggested retaliations are transphobic, but rather not going out of your way to take actions that might be read as further transphobic if that’s already the lens the coworker is seeing the situation through, justifiably or not. I think it costs the OP nothing to be kind in that way (and makes her the bigger person, for what that’s worth).

              And on the flipside, I certainly don’t think the OP needs to start hiding her pads altogether in order to tiptoe around this coworker’s sensitivities as is being ordered by HR. My read on the situation is that the only reason the manager and HR took this complaint so seriously is because they were terrified of appearing transphobic/seeming to defend transphobia if that’s how the coworker approached the complaint, and that’s way over the line into putting trans people on a pedestal. If someone’s being unreasonable, they’re being unreasonable, marginalized person or not.

    2. Kathlynn*

      There have been protests for women’s rights or reproductive health that have involved people using sanitary products. These have been called out by the trans community for being transphobic, because they were accidentally excluding trans woman. So we are generally saying “hey this is transphobic” because of how directly related to other things people have called out as transphobic an action is. Even if it’s accidentally transphobic rather then purposefully (the punching down instead of up comment above makes a really good point)

      1. Marvel*

        Many women (and trans men) are discriminated against for reasons related to menstruation and childbirth, and it’s not transphobic to acknowledge and talk about that. It IS transphobic to assume that ALL WOMEN menstruate, or that menstruation is An Intrinsic Part of Womanhood, which is usually the facet of that which I see getting called out. But I don’t see that happening here.

        Also, the entire community doesn’t call anything out because we’re not a hivemind. Prominent figures within the community may, but even then other prominent figures often disagree. I think things often seem more clear cut from outside the community than they are from inside it.

        1. Marvel*

          To be clear, there ARE subsets of the community who think that, for instance, any discussion of menstruation needs to be completely divorced from the concept of womanhood (and relatedly any discussion of phallic symbolism needs to be completely divorced from the concept of manhood, etc.). I both agree and don’t, because on the one hand yes that would be ideal… but I don’t think it’s actually possible because, culturally speaking, those things are linked in our minds whether or not they’re linked in reality. It’s sometimes not actually possible to talk about sexism without talking about issues related to, for instance, birth control and abortion, which assumes every woman has that particular set of sex organs and that they’re functioning as expected. It’s a fine line.

          My point is not to say, this thing is not transphobic. I suppose my own answer is that I don’t know yet, because there’s a spectrum to these things, and transphobia to some degree is so built into our culture that we can’t fully be rid of it if we ever want to talk about gender issues ever again. My point is to emphasize that this is an ongoing conversation, not a universal mandate, and it’s a bit tone deaf for cis folks to insist that because a certain part of the community defined a certain thing a certain way one time, it is universally true.

          2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

            I think beyond that, there’s a difference between talking about generalizations and talking about rigid and-they-ne’er-shall-meet boundaries. “Most women menstruate and cultural attitudes around menstruation are inextricably linked with women’s rights and how women are treated” is true and doesn’t need EVERYONE who ticks ‘F’ on a form to menstruate to be a valid statement.

            1. CityMouse*

              Or that, particularly in the developing world, attitudes towards menstruation are interfering with the education of girls and are used as a pretext to opress women. You can’t ignore that menstruation is a women’s rights issue. There are realities that advocacy for a froup may nit apply to the whole group. Jut that doesn’t mean that avocacy is not absolutely crucial.

            5. LBK*

              Agreed. For instance, I don’t think it’s wrong for a movement focused on women to take up making menstrual items tax-free as a cause, because that is something that affects the vast majority of women. Eventually the conversation starts to tilt from being cognizant of intersectionalism to “not everyone can have sandwiches” territory.

              1. Detective Amy Santiago*

                Same as pregnancy/maternity leave. It’s something that primarily affects cis women, but just because not all cis women can/want to get pregnant, doesn’t make it less of a women’s issue. And, yes, trans men need to be part of that discussion as well (which is where intersectionalism comes into play).

    3. Lissa*

      I also think a lot of the jokes/comments about tampon earrings and so on were from before anyone even knew the person was trans, so I would say that on aggregate, people absolutely WOULD do the same thing (make joking over the top suggestions about what to do with menstrual products) were the woman who complained was cis…because I’m sure most people assumed she *was* and still made all those suggestions. (I mean I personally collapsed the threads with those suggestions because they were funny but I feel like they got repetitive after the first 3 and didn’t need to read a 100 comment thread that was basically all jokes, since nobody actually wanted the OP to do any of that…)

  99. OhioTry*

    I think that there’s a real possibility that OP #1 is fake. I don’t think it’s impossible since there are still some very old fashioned people who think menstruation is obscene, and a subset of those people are trans. But the idea that trans women are jealous of’ ‘real women’s’ vaginas and periods is something so-called Trans-exclusive Radical Feminists have been pushing for decades. I say so-called because I don’t think a feminism that excludes trans women is feminism.

    2. paul*

      It’s not even the reality that TERF’s exist that make me cock an eye; its’ that (unlike other pad/tampon related letters) this involves at least 3 people–all of whom are women–complaining about them…being in someone’s car.

      The others all involved one coworker or supervisor being unreasonable, and the products actually *being* in the office, not someone’s car.

      If it’s real, go burn ’em down though.

      1. Student*

        It’s great that you’ve never personally run into anti-woman sexism from women.

        It is real. It is common in places that you don’t frequent. Facts are, because you’re here, you are probably a well-educated person with stable finances who hangs out with others of his kind. Most of the country isn’t like that – you are an outlier. The reality is that woman-on-woman sexism is the baseline for probably 50% of women in the US, if not much more. Go out and actually look at a survey of what women nation-wide think of any sexism topic you can think of. Part of why sexism is so deeply entrenched and harder to shake than racism is that women teach this to their own children and believe it about themselves.

        We are women, but a large number of us are brought up to believe we are inferior to men. I was. My own mother believed that the only meaningful things a woman could do was give birth, raise children, and support a man’s career. She taught me to marry a wealthy guy because I’d never be able to earn a decent living. She decided that I, valedictorian of my high school, wouldn’t get any money towards college from the family – but arranged for my brother (who was about average at school) to get $100k in school loans from various relatives. She taught me to do my brother’s laundry for him, that men shouldn’t be expected to shop for groceries, and that when men are outright cruel and abusive to women, then the women did something to deserve it. She discouraged and prevented me from doing any sports, for fear I might look too buff and muscle-bound and thus be unattractive to men. That’s just the highlights.

        My mother was not an outlier in her family. My mother was not an outlier in her community. The outliers in our community were the rare men who would even talk to a female child to say something non-sexual. The outliers were the women who thought they could really be equals to men. Men who thought and acted as if women were their equals didn’t exist in my community. I didn’t run into any men like that until I got to college. All of the women I knew who openly believed we were equal to men were under 18 until I got to college.

        Some of the women who are successful but still feel and act this way are like that because they think they are “special” women. Exemptions. More man-like in some aspect, and thus “better”. The “other, normal” women are regarded as idiots, harlots, unserious, fluffy. I shamefully admit that I went through a long phase like that before I realized it was very wrong.

        I had to completely reject my own mother’s deeply held beliefs (and, yes, the rest of my family, and the vast majority of my community) to go in a different direction. I am still un-learning some of that internalized sexism. Silly example – I still struggle with men doing laundry. When I see a man doing laundry I still actively feel shame that I’ve made him do women’s work, and I have to struggle against myself to not take it away from him.

    3. Aisling*

      As per site rules, we don’t question the OP’s on whether their questions are fake or not. Not only is it disrespectful (and may prevent others from writing in with strange-but-true scenarios), but the advice is still good advice.

    4. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I doubt it; based on what Alison said, the OP was way more low-key about the nosy coworker being trans than I would expect out of someone making this up to pursue some dumb TERF agenda.

      1. Observer*

        I agree. I could see a TERF type doing something like this, but in that case the fact that any of the players is Trans would have had a prominent place. Relying on Alison to dig in and then update in the comments is a REALLY ineffective way to push that agenda.

      1. Princess Cimorene*

        ?? Hormonal periods? Sorry for my ignorance in questioning this, but menstruation requires the shedding of uterine lining, thus the bleeding.

        1. Alice*

          @Princess Cimorene Trans women already have the same brains as cis women. When we take estrogen we have the exact same hormonal profiles as cis women. The combination of our brains sending signals to menstruate and estrogen taken at the same time every day give us mood swings, cravings, and cramps on a monthly cycle. Framing menstruation as “just bleeding” or uterus centric ignores the multiple symptoms of an estrogen cycle.

          2. Morgan*

            “Framing menstruation as “just bleeding” or uterus centric ignores the multiple symptoms of an estrogen cycle.”

            Um. Periods are a uterus-centric function. Like literally.

            Also I’d like to see a conclusive source on the whole cis/trans woman brain thing. As far as I’m aware decades of study hasn’t even proven a huge difference between male and female brains, let alone established the idea that trans women have “female” brains to the point where they’re experiencing menstruation symptoms.

            https://www.statnews.com/2015/11/30/brain-male-female-study/

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ydcV-gbNsP0

    6. Triple Anon*

      Allison said she had an extended conversation with the letter writer. It doesn’t sound like it’s fake. It could be that other relevant parts of the story were left out, but people can just be unreasonable.

  100. Pebbles*

    I think all that can be said for OP #1 has already been addressed in pushing back to HR (*mind boggling*), but question for the commentariat: how should OP #1 continue to work with her coworker? I would have difficulty even maintaining to keep joint work at an absolute minimum with icy civility, but someone this willing to go to HR over something that had NOTHING TO DO with the coworker, wouldn’t any change in OP’s behavior be seen under a lens of retaliation and/or harassment?

  101. essEss*

    If they refuse to remove the disciplinary action from your file, ask them to think about what type of public image this makes for their company if it is known that they discipline people for keeping hygiene products in their car. As them what they would think about another company if they heard that company disciplined an employee for having a legal hygiene item in their car.

    1. Narise*

      I think I would request it be added to the employee handbook since they are willing to write people up over it. Maybe once others see it in print they’ll back off or face such a backlash they are shamed into changing their policy.

  102. Clao*

    OP#5 I am a Mexican citizen working on the US. My education and work experience are all in the US and so I leave my visa requirements (employer sponsored TN visa) off my resume just because I feel it gives me a disadvantage against other equally qualified candidates.
    I will come forward with the info as soon as a prospective employer asks, not before.
    Maybe I am doing this wrong? Should I include this info in my resume?

    1. Foxtrot*

      My gut reaction says no. The general idea is that resumes highlight your good points, as opposed to applications. Don’t lie, but don’t offer up information that could hurt your candidacy before you need to.

  103. nep*

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
    What the actual F^*K is it all coming to? No. No. No. No. No.
    I want OP #1 to be a hoax.
    If it’s real, I want whoever wrote this up or had to talk to an employee about it to be ousted.
    This kind of stupidity must not be tolerated.
    (And yes — do what Lady Grey says.)

    1. nep*

      (Of course last line said in jest — I think in some threads above people actually think some are going to be that childish and do these ridiculous things with toiletries.)

      1. Observer*

        Really. I certainly hope that no one does this stuff. There’s enough childishness to go around. It’s cute with children, but not so much with adults.

  104. Tata*

    I’m late to comment game & haven’t had time to read comments….. but for OP#1 & Alison, MY HEAD EXPLODED AS WELL & I CAN’T FIND THE PIECES TO PUT MYSELF BACK TOGETHER. Wow. And shame on other woman for peeking into your car and being psycho about something normal.

  105. Oxford Comma*

    #1 : My aged mother will tell you that when she was a teenager, they would wrap the box of pads up in paper at the drug store. But unless the LW is communicating to us from the late 1940s/early 1950s, her boss and her HR department are insane. I don’t care who her coworker is. The pads were in a bag in HER CAR in the backseat no less.

    What the hell is wrong with these people???

  106. Only here for the teapots*

    I hope you’ve already filed a complaint with the EEOC. Assuming you’re in the US.

  107. Elmyra Duff*

    Meanwhile, I’ve been known to walk into the office carrying a box of tampons after running out for lunch. Sometimes I’ve even carried on conversations with (omg) male coworkers while holding them. Whoops.

  108. RVA Cat*

    Now that I’ve thought about it, maybe the kindest interpretation of #1 is that trans co-worker has a *severe* case of workplace PTSD and the sight of the pads in the OP’s car brought back memories of being harassed by ciswomen leaving pads/tampons on her desk, or food tampering a la Red’s Special from OITNB. I guess the equivalent would be, say, a PoC co-worker seeing a normal coiled-up rope in a co-worker’s car and thinking it is a noose intended as a racist threat.

    The result with the OP getting written up, however, is much like the infamous letter where the bird-phobic man pushed his co-worker into traffic and broke her arm. Pads, and birds, exist in the world, and part of being healthy enough to be in the workforce is managing your triggers so you don’t accidentally hurt other people.

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