open thread – April 13-14, 2018

by Alison Green on April 13, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. Rockhopper*

    In the absence of the horror stories we read here daily, how do you decide when it is time to move on from a job? I am at a job that is stable, pays me fairly (although I’m not getting rich) and has decent benefits. I am vested in my retirement account and next year will be up to 25 days of PTO. Everyone here, from the CEO to the Customer Service Rep, is polite and respectful at least on the surface. I am very good at what I do and nobody else here has my particular skillset. I should also add than I am a decade from retirement and my life situation means I need PTO and flexibility to use it, which I have here.
    But. I am in a position with no pathway to promotion, even though I’ve taken over multiple responsibilities that belonged to higher ups who left (and those positions were not be refilled). And even these new responsibilities don’t keep me nearly busy enough, so I have too much time to fill. There are areas where I could add a lot of value, but that keeps being overlooked even though I have brought it up more than once. It doesn’t help that I have a manager doesn’t understand what I do, who couldn’t manage his way out of a bag and who is, I think, a little intimidated by me although I am not a particularly intimidating person.
    I go through these thoughts every few months. To stay or to go? How do you decide when both sides have so many pros and cons?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think if I were in your situation, I would probably not actively job search but just keep an eye out for potential opportunities, and if something looks interesting, apply for it. In many ways, you’re in the ideal job search situation—lots of people feel pressure to find something right now because their current workplace is toxic, they’re unemployed, or their spouse is moving for grad school or another job.

      1. Princess Loopy*

        This for sure. Look around at available jobs when you feel like it, talk to trusted folks in your network about the idea of finding something new, and take the opportunity to be really choosy about what you consider.

        The added bonus is that if you do decide it’s time move with more urgency, you’ve already gotten the process started.

      2. Jerry Vandesic*

        I agree. Look around, but be picky. Figure out what you want. A promotion? Increased pay? At least 25 days PTO? Better benefits? Then, look for opportunities that meet your needs. Jobs that don’t get culled. It might take a while, but when you do find something new it will be enough to make a difference compared to your current job.

      3. Mephyle*

        Agree with these suggestions, but also be prepared that nothing better will present itself and you will stay in the job. Aas mentioned by numerous people below, stability, a sane, polite workplace and good PTO are not things to give up lightly, especially given that you would be an older jobseeker and closer to retirement than many other jobseekers.
        I would do a parallel quest to look for fulfillment outside the job; it could be a side business, volunteering, a serious hobby (that could also evolve to something that generates income)…. Any of these could provide an environment where you can get satisfaction by managing things to add value the way it should be done.

    2. Caledonia*

      For me, if the job isn’t toxic, then I leave when I have gotten the most out of it I possibly can / can add no further value / can learn all I want to.

      Sometimes you just gotta take a leap of faith, you know? Jump into the unknown.

      3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        There’s a reality in being older, though, that makes job security really important. Age discrimination is incredibly prevalent. I’d be cautious about moving into a less secure position, because I wouldn’t want to be job searching 5 years from retirement. Sucks.

        2. Rockhopper*

          Yes, that is a big pro for staying in my situation. You don’t want to screw up the last few years before retirement.

          1. Triplestep*

            The lack of drama in the interpersonal relationships, and the flexibility and amount of PTO are key here. I’m about 10 – 15 years from retirement, and I would kill for these things. In fact I am actively considering jobs that would be a step down in responsibility. I don’t care that there’s no pathway to promotion … my job is stressful enough, although your mileage may vary.

            Maybe you should go back and read Alison’s earlier entry this week about asking for raise? Seems like you’re in the exact situation she described as someone who took on more responsibility and never got a salary adjustment.

        3. Fortitude Jones*

          Ahhhh, yes. This is something I hadn’t considered. Taking blind leaps when you’re 30 plus years away from retirement is much different when it’s only 10.

        4. nonymous*

          I would also say that the last 5 – 10 years of FTE are definitely “make hay” periods. Either one has advanced to the point that their pay is due to institutional knowledge/networking, or the work has become routine. In the latter, often the real gain is to set in motion whatever is needed for retirement. For example, if someone wants to entrepreneur their retirement or move to a different locale or spend a lot of time in a particular hobby. Being employed FT at a position that doesn’t exhaust you – while not very sexy – leaves space to do the legwork to research, network and learn new skills as needed. There are a lot of people out there with amazing retirement goals (RV around the US! move to Costa Rica!), but don’t have a practical plan how to execute it. For example, living in an RV means having to downsize to <400sq feet – that's not going to happen overnight! And to get a residency permit in CR has income thresholds. None of this would prevent goals, but it's a negative emotional blow to have to spend a year or so dealing with legal/practical stuff after retirement is official.

          1. Anonymoose*

            I dont’ understand how folks are affording to retire in Costa Rica – it’s just as expensive as the US! And for much lower standards of living. Now, maybe I could understand Panama…

        5. Screenwriter*

          Yes, I totally agree with this. As you get to this age, a secure retirement is infinitely more valuable than a promotion but a possibly less secure situation. That should be your top priority in weighing the pros and cons, because that’s what will seriously matter for the rest of your life. As I get to retirement age, I am now seeing the value of really having kept an eye on saving, investing, and vesting in my pension for all those years; and it’s like all of a sudden, the whole “promotion” thing becomes far less crucial.

    3. Irene Adler*

      I’m finding that actually interviewing for other positions helps me see how my current position measures up to what’s out there. It also helps me to realize what I really value, what I want and what I can actually have.

    4. Muriel Heslop*

      Have you looked at all to see what else might be out there for you? It sounds like you are on the fence but maybe there is a job out there for you that has more of what you would like. Ten years is a long time and I would love for you find something that’s a better fit if you can. Good luck!

    5. Schnoodle*

      It sounds like you’re bored, but in a stable job where you are confident in your skill set and have the flexibility and PTO you require for work life balance.

      Personally, I wouldn’t budge unless it was for an awesome company/position you’ve been dying to get into.

      A good respectful workplace with decent benefits and flexibility is hard to come by in my opinion.

      1. Rockhopper*

        Yes, that is my problem. I’ve seen too much of the bad stuff on AAM and I don’t want to end up with a job like that this late in my career.

        1. General Ginger*

          Rockhopper, I’d maybe put some low-key feelers out there and do some interviews — that way, you’re open to finding a position or a company that really grabs you. But I wouldn’t leave for anything other than a really stellar opportunity, were I in your position.

    6. Detective Amy Santiago*

      This is actually the best position to be in when you’re job searching! You’re not desperate, so you can afford to be choosy about which positions you apply/interview for. Start looking around at your options and submit a resume when it sounds good.

    7. ThatGirl*

      I had some of these thoughts at my last job – the pay was decent, I had a very flexible schedule, I liked my coworkers – but I felt kinda bored and/or not doing what I “really” wanted to do. I did occasional job searching but nothing panned out.

      And then I got laid off and the decision was made for me :P

    8. Apples to Apples*

      Not sure whether your skillset lends itself to this, but have you thought about freelancing or consulting on the side? It’s flexible and could allow you to feel the fulfillment you may not be getting at work right now.

    9. Jennifer*

      Can you find another job in the first place to move on TO? That’s my only determiner, saying this as someone who can’t find anything. I would have long since left if I could. You can look around all you like, but it only really depends on if you can find something else.

    10. Menacia*

      Wow, I could have written this post! Feeling the same way you do I have started to test the waters. Putting out feelers has been good, due to my experience and education, the feedback has been positive. I am being very picky as far as opportunities to pursue. It’s a great position to be in and if nothing else, I will be able to compare my options. Working on my resume and submitting applications is not a wasted exercise, especially when you have time on your hands.

    11. Master Bean Counter*

      I’m in the same boat now. Just keep an eye to the job boards and see if anything that looks interesting comes up. You’ll be surprised how much better you can spot red flags at a company when you’re not desperate. You have the luxury of being able to be picky, enjoy it.

    12. Ainomiaka*

      Agree that this is a good time to carefully job hunt. You don’t have to take anything that isn’t better. You can always say no. And there’s much less disincentive to ask quality of life questions. You don’t have to worry if they think asking how much people actually use PTO looks bad because you’re self selecting out of companies that have a problem with that.

    13. Bea*

      In your case I would just casually look for more choices but something stellar would have to pop out to take a bite at it.

      My reasons for leaving have always been relocation or insane bosses. I’ll also eventually leave my current position barring I’ll be able to convince them they only need me part time and getting other gigs on the side because I’m so incredibly bored with just the one section of my skills being tapped into.

      I’ve noticed boredom is a reason many others leave. But so close to retirement with all the perks set, I wouldn’t be very mobile minded.

      1. Kelly L.*

        Yeah, the way this has usually played out in my life is wanting or needing to move for personal reasons, thus necessitating leaving the job in the old place.

    14. Mockingjay*

      I started drafting a similar comment yesterday. I am closer to retirement (2 or 3 more years), so I am not switching jobs or careers. But my role has definitely changed – the market for what I do is considerably reduced and my skills aren’t relevant. I’m a technical writer and my local job market has shifted to more results-oriented engineering tasks. Documentation is minimal and only cursorily edited. My workload is very light and consists of proofreading and some basic formatting.

      I’m bored most days. I’ve volunteered in some other areas of the company which helps. The upside is that stress is almost nonexistent and I go home at regular hours every day.

      [Postscript: I didn’t comment on Tuesday’s thread on whether executives need to proofread their emails; I was too busy clutching my pearls as one more nail was driven into the coffin of this career. Guess I’m a dinosaur clinging to my thesaurus while I delicately erase the carbon copy in my typewriter…]

      1. Me--Blargh*

        I’m a technical writer and my local job market has shifted to more results-oriented engineering tasks. Documentation is minimal and only cursorily edited. My workload is very light and consists of proofreading and some basic formatting.

        Well great, there goes my entire career plan. :(

        2. Mockingjay*

          Don’t give up. Tech writing for software documentation is going strong in private industry. My company’s market is defense contracting and the skill set can be pretty narrow I do have prior software doc experience. If I wasn’t so close to retirement, I’d take some refresher courses in XML editors and get back into that.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            Tech writing for software documentation is going strong in private industry.

            Seconded. I keep getting alerts for tons of these jobs in my area (Midwest), so there’s still hope.

        3. Ann O.*

          It depends on why you want to do technical writing and what you envision it to be. The job role has been shifting across many industries from feature based to interaction based. IMHO, that’s a good thing across the board. But if what you want is to write manuals, copyedit, or do print-oriented templates, it could mean your hopes are misaligned with the current trends.

          1. Me--Blargh*

            I’m fine with that–I just need some time to learn more software skills. The problem is that I have no access to any way of learning them until I have an income. I’ll have to pay for it and get it elsewhere–probably can’t get it at work because admins don’t get to do that sort of thing.

            1. Ann O.*

              You can learn DITA, Markdown, HTML5, and CSS with open source tools. DITA is easier with a quality program like Oxygen or XMetal, but it’s all open source and there are freeware editors. Also, way more important than learning a specific language is reading up on the underlying theory. If you know what information mapping, minimalism, task-oriented documentation, etc. means, you’re looking at the right things. If you don’t, I’d suggest starting there. There are some great blogs.

              I also have a bias for recommending crossover into learning basic UX principles, but that’s probably driven as much by my current niche and personal interests as anything else.

            2. Easily Amused*

              There are tons of free/low cost online resources for learning to code – Kahn Academy, in some places, you can get access to Lynda.com via a local library card, Udemy, Coursera, Codecademy, etc. If you’re a woman, look into the Grace Hopper Program at Fullstack Academy. A friend of mine just completed it – tuition free!

            3. Alicat*

              Look into what your public library offers. Our public library (Western Canada) offers all kinds of free online courses through Lynda.com , Gale Courses etc.

    15. hermit crab*

      I am in a very similar position to you, except I’m earlier in my career. I’m generally kind of burnt out and on any given day can swing between “OK, if a little stuck” and “OMG why do I even care anymore, I have to get out of here.” I work on very long-term projects (they can literally span decades) and no matter how sick I get of certain aspects of my job/this company, I feel like there are still things I want to see through. Sometimes.

      I’m actually pursuing service year opportunities like AmeriCorps, with the idea that I’d either come back to this company afterward or use it as a jumping off point for something completely different. Obviously that is not feasible for a lot of people, but I wonder if there’s some way you can get some mental distance from your current position to figure out exactly what it is you want.

    16. Anonymous Poster*

      It depends on where you are in your career. For example, I’d generally think someone young in their career would prefer to see more advancement so that their pay trajectory is bumped up as high as it can go early on. But, if you have a family, then a comfortable job where while you may not advance, will see you through whatever stage of life you’re in, I could see a case for sticking around.

      It’s also normal to move on simply because you’re bored. You’re moving on to find new challenges, which is a very normal reason to look around. Or someone late in their career may stick it out until retirement, so that they have steady income, not a ton of stress, and then glide gracefully into retirement.

      It really just depends. At the very least, interviewing won’t hurt you, and maybe you’ll find a place that really clicks. Or not. You have the very real advantage of being able to be very, very picky. Keep in mind that these letters show you the outliers, and not the vast majority of peoples’ work lives. Chances are wherever you end up will be a little quirky, but not a dumpster fire. But you can afford to find that real diamond of a job if you want since you’re fine where you are.

    17. The OG Anonsie*

      This is one of those jobs-as-dating things. People will stick in both no matter how little they’re actually benefiting them because they don’t see a reason to leave. Something big and bad has to happen for folks to feel like they have a good enough reason to move on.

      Which is weird, right? Why sit stagnant in something that’s not really enriching your life when you have other options?

    18. Work Wardrobe*

      I got three different “good” jobs when I was 58, 60 and 63 (job changes = we moved away, then moved back). So it’s definitely possible to find them.

      That said, I am at a career level where I have had the same title for all 3 jobs, but I’m fine with that.

      You know you can take your retirement account with you, so that’s not an issue…

    19. Ali G*

      I think you should consider a “passive job search.” Are you on LinkedIn? Either create an account or update your existing one (you can turn off the notifications so everyone is not pinged that you updated your profile) to really sell yourself. Then actively seek out companies and other people to grow your network. A lot of recruiting happens on LinkedIn and if you have marketable skills you might get noticed.
      Then you can make a choice based on the options you have.
      You can also “turn on” the option to let recruiters know you are open to hearing from them.

    20. When it rains...*

      If you have a lot of downtime at work, maybe take some online classes? Or do some research around your interests? It could be good to start thinking about major projects you’d like to dive into once you are retired and have the freedom to do what you want!!

    21. Michelle*

      I relate to this so much. I wanted to ask the same thing but couldn’t quite figure out how to word it so it made sense and you did so perfectly. I will be following the comments.

    22. Jady*

      Personally, it would come down to money for me. Would you get a significant increase elsewhere? Would you be able to apply to new jobs as the promotion position you’ve been wanting? Would that position typically fit in with your needs (flexibility, etc)?

      If yes to all 3, then I would start searching, but be choosy about accepting a new place, make sure it’s a good fit.

      Otherwise I’d just stick around. The benefits are significant. Push harder for the promotion, go above heads if possible, in the other areas you could provide value… if it’s an option, just start doing it. Forgiveness over permission and all that. If you still have idle time at work, use it to learn new things you can add to your resume.

    23. Oxford Coma*

      I would keep the job, and seek additional career fulfillment through alternate routes such as professional societies, speaking engagements, publications, etc. The context you’ve provided (fair environment with decent bennies and flexibility, your age, and so on) would make me very reluctant to leave.

    24. Not So NewReader*

      The traditional decision making model calls for a list of pros and cons.

      A new model calls for ONE VERY good reason. Find a very good reason to stay or to go. Probably looking at other jobs would help you find that very good reason.

      I will say that if you are truly concerned about landing in a toxic environment then that might be your answer right there. So you could sum it up as, “I am better off staying put because I know I have it okay here.”

      One suggestion I would make is how about gearing up for a gig that you can do when you are retired? This could mean taking courses or perhaps ramping up a hobby you already have. You have ten years to build something for yourself to do once you retire. I am a conservative person, so I would be drawn to an idea similar to this one.

    25. Rockhopper*

      Thanks, everyone. You’ve given me lots to think about. I do get that I’m in a better situation than many.

    26. KX*

      You know how I knew? Ordinary, reasonable requests started to enrage me. These would be things that I’d been doing the whole time, too–not new or out-of-scope responsibilities. I did not act on my rage, but I listened to it. This is a nice office with friendly people and good friends, that offers lots of flexibility and paid time off, and yet…

      I don’t need to be somewhere that made me so unpredictably angry, and the people I work with deserve willing assistance. It’s just time for me to go.

      I am actively looking, but I am being very choosy. What has been interesting is that I can see in potential new jobs similarities to the things I am doing that I am tired of, and it is helping me focus on what I really want to look for. It was a whole big revelation the other day that I have not been posting long enough here to get into.

      But you guys! It was an amazing revelation!

      1. Canadian Teapots*

        That’s… really concerning, actually?

        Sudden and unpredictable onsets of anger sound like a pit stop with a therapist may be in order to clarify the true underlying cause, be it job satisfaction or something else.

        1. Anna*

          Not really? I mean, sure if you’re experiencing that in other places, but if it’s really focused around work and you can identify it for what it is, I don’t think therapy is necessary. Sometimes the cause and effect are exactly what they appear to be and changing the cause will erase the effect.

          1. Canadian Teapots*

            The thing is, though, is I get wanting to roll one’s eyes at doing and redoing the same basic-request things that are in one’s job description, because humans tend to value routine but not to the point where it’s the major aspect of things. Fair point.

            But actual episodes of rage? That’s so far off the meter of ordinariness in my experience that if I were to experience those incidents my first impulse would be to wonder if I’ve accidentally been exposed to a mood alterant.

            1. KX*

              “ENRAGED” was overstating my case. Preposterously inconvenienced and profoundly exasperated are better descriptors.

      2. Luna*

        I get this, this was kind of what happened to me too. I realized I was getting more and more annoyed at basic everyday requests that I had happily been doing for years. That was the sign.

    27. Gerry*

      I am in a very similar situation, except I also have a defined benefit pension plan and additional sick days that accumulate monthly. The longer I stay, the bigger my pension. I’m not sure how big your organization is, but would it be possible to find lateral movement to a different (better) manager?

      I know there is one prominent HR blogger who says you should never stay in a place that doesn’t “grow your flame” and to some extent I agree. But we do get to an age where our priorities become more personal, and what we need from our employers changes. If you remain open to new opportunities, you can negotiate benefits that work for you, and be prepared to walk away if you can’t get them. That would be my advice.

    28. LilySparrow*

      It sounds like you feel you could do better, but don’t have a specific opportunity on the table to compare to.
      You can’t really ever solve a hypothetical question like that. So look around and see if you do find something better. Having the other side of the equation be really concrete is going to make the decision much easier.

    29. RB*

      We’re in similar situations. I look at things in my current job that other jobs don’t have and those usually persuade me to stay here. Things like a good retirement package, a short commute, and a decent boss. I could find one or two of those at another place, but there might be a slight pay cut. It seems unlikely I would find all three of those at another place and not have to take a pay cut or reduced vacation time. I’ve been in worse jobs and I don’t want to risk winding up in another one.

    30. Not a Morning Person*

      Another consideration is your PTO, holidays, and time off flexibility. If your employer is reasonably flexible about your use of your time-off benefits, then that is something to value. Too often, starting over at a new position requires starting at the bottom for accruing PTO and for developing a reputation where your manager will be comfortable allowing you flexibility.
      I am in a similar situation. I am not engaged in my work any more and it is significantly below the level of responsibility and pay I have had in previous jobs. But when we relocated, it was the only thing I could find. As I look around, the whole region pays less than the national average, which is incredibly frustrating. However, I have a reasonably flexible manager, a pretty easy commute, and because I am pretty healthy, I use the stingy amount of PTO for vacation and not sick leave. Just offering a perspective on PTO as another consideration.
      Of course, if you are really bored or really disengaged, then finding something to be excited about may overcome some of the negatives that might come with starting over at a new organization. That’s what I’m looking for, but I really need time off benefits and scheduling flexibility. Figure out what you most want, need, and value from your current or a future job and keep that in mind as you explore your options. Good luck!

    31. MissDissplaced*

      If you’re a decade out, and the job is stable with no layoffs pending, I would stick it out and stay put!
      Jobs are just that sometimes, jobs. When you do retire you can be free to pursue something else for a few years if you want to that suits your personal tastes.

    32. Buu*

      Does your industry have Networking events, conventions or mentorship programs you could join as a mentor? Perhaps getting involved in something like that might naturally open up opportunities whilst you can actively contribute something esp to people starting out.

      1. TootsNYC*

        I agree with the idea of finding a way to teach or coach or mentor–that’s very enlivening for me. And it can turn all those now-mundane tasks into fodder for the next teaching session.

    33. I Didn’t Kill Kenny*

      Agree with much of what’s been said.

      First, do you use that PTO to give yourself a reset and refresh?
      Looking elsewhere can definitely help you appreciate what’s out there and what you already have. Additional PTO is often something that can be negotiated in a new job.
      Do you have interests/hobbies outside of work that can give you some fulfillment?

      A little boring can equal no drama, not something to be taken lightly, as this blog demonstrates.

      And I hate to say it but 10 yrs from retirement – ageism is out there when you job search.

    34. Safetykats*

      Is there any possibility of a different job at the same company? I feel for you as regards not feeling challenged or well -utilized, but my sister and her husband both changed jobs a year ago, after more than 20 years in the same place, and seemed to have no understanding that as a new employee you generally just don’t get the flexibility you do after decades. They’ve gone from pretty much comingband going as they pleased as long as they got their work done to long, specific hours and a long commute, plus travel (for her) and lots of weekend days (for him). the Rest of us are left to make up for this with their kids, and lucky for us all that we can do that, but I’m still gobsmacked that they were stunned at the change.

      It’s really hard to put a price on the kind of flexibility that lets you take care of what you need to, especially if you’re well taken care of otherwise.

  2. HALP!*

    Hi AAMers,

    Happy Friday! I have my first-ever situational interview coming up next week (I am the interviewee) and I have no idea what to expect. Obviously I’m doing research on likely questions, etc, but is there anything else I can do to prep? I’m really excited about this position, and would like to make a great impression.

    Secondly, the firm’s dress code is more professional than I’m used to (think law or banking), but they wear jeans on Fridays. My interviewer specifically had HR tell me that they will all be in jeans, and it’s okay for me to come in jeans. Would black jeans and a bright blue blazer look out of place? Or should I dress in muted professional dress clothes as I would for any other interview?

    1. Schnoodle*

      Skip the jeans and go with business casual type, in my opinion. So you’re both dressed up somewhat, yet not in a stuffy suit when you’ve been specifically told they’d be in jeans.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      If they made a point of telling you that it was okay to wear jeans, I think your black jeans and blazer idea would be perfect.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Yup, agreed. And wear dress shoes so you aren’t too casual – you still want to be just a slight step up from everyone else when interviewing.

    3. Smudge*

      Hi – I can’t help with the first half of your question (although I wish you luck!) but I currently work in a law firm and actually felt hugely overdressed in my interview, even though it wasn’t casual Friday – I came in a suit (dress, matching jacket, heels) and the partner interviewing me (much older) was also in a suit, but my future boss was just in a sweater and pants with nice jewellery. I think law firms at least are often less formal than people imagine from movies etc, so I think black jeans and a bright blue blazer would be absolutely fine – although you could potentially wear heels if you’re still worried about looking too casual, and make sure the little details like jewellery, hair etc. are all looking polished.

      1. Morning Glory*

        If the hiring manager specifically said that it was ok for her to wear jeans and that everyone else would be in jeans…why not?

        1. Canadian Teapots*

          It runs the risk of someone not knowing the interviewee was told “wear jeans”, and unfairly dismissing them for not appearing to know what professional attire looks like.

          Were I in the interviewee’s position I would wear what the ordinary dress code says, and if asked, say, “I was told about your casual dress day but didn’t want to presume upon that.” So it demonstrates you’re not just trying to show off, you’re cognizant of past communications, but also you’re aware that ‘newbies’ often are held to stricter standards than old-timers who can be cut a little slack because the folks around them know the score.

          1. Artemesia*

            This. So often places are not that organized and someone who is himself quite casually dressed and thinks are no big deal might give a bum steer to the candidate while others in the firm MAY care about dress. I have seen men also give women bad advice because the norms are different sometimes. I think dark jeans and a blazer probably works fine but I’d probably go with business casual but not jeans in a more formal place.

        2. Canadian Teapots*

          That all being said, posters below have made good arguments for paying attention to the specific mention of jeans, but keeping it classy within the parameters of a more casual day. So take my above with a rather large caveat of “only do this if you have reason to believe that you might not be invited to relax your dress code”.

    5. ABK*

      I’d go with jeans or black jeans and a blazer since they told you it would be fine, as long as your jeans fit you well. They likely will not be paying attention to this at all so don’t worry about it!

    6. Lisa B*

      Think of it this way- if you wear jeans, they will think “that’s fine, we said it was ok.” But if dress like you normally would for an interview, they’re more likely to be impressed that you still treated it wanting to show your best self.

      2. Jadelyn*

        …or they’ll take it as a sign she might not be a good cultural fit, too stiff/inflexible to adjust to the situation, or any number of other things. You can’t say for sure how they’ll react, especially when they made such a point of specifically saying “we’ll all be there in jeans”.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          This is my thought too. They made a point of telling you that you can wear jeans and if you show up in a full suit, it makes you look like you can’t follow directions.

        2. General Ginger*

          Agreed. They told you they’ll be in jeans. Dressing them up with a blazer sounds absolutely perfect; wearing a full suit when they said you don’t have to would appear like you didn’t listen.

        3. Fiennes*

          I agree. Dressing up a pair of black jeans with a blazer, nice shirt beneath, etc, seems like the way to go here. Otherwise the message sent is, “I don’t listen to clear, explicit information about the culture here.”

        4. Zennish*

          This. Personally, I’d find it mildly off-putting as an interviewer if I told you specifically it was okay to dress down, and you dressed up. It would strike me as a little uptight, or at least wouldn’t further any rapport.

        5. Not a Morning Person*

          I think an unmatched slacks and blazer would still be appropriate. It’s more casual than a matched suit but still comes across a little more professional than jeans. Although the black jeans and blue blazer sound great! Make sure your shoes are nice and look well-kept, not scuffed or worn at the heel.
          Good luck!

      3. Lady By The Lake*

        As a lawyer, if I specifically told a candidate that it was jeans day and they showed up in full lawyer regalia, I would assume that it is someone who is too green and unsure of themselves. It would be a huge black mark for me.

        1. Sunflower*

          I agree. They told you that you could wear jeans so i think the black jeans are perfect

    7. ANon.*

      If your interviewer went out of his/her way to let you know that it’s ok to wear jeans and that everyone else will be in jeans, I would wear jeans. IMO, disregarding that information after they specifically told you would reflect poorly on you. Also, if you dress like you belong, that may help them subconsciously see you as belonging. But definitely dress them up a professionally as you can. The way you described sounds perfect.

    8. Casual Dave*

      If you’ve been officially told jeans are right, wear jeans, if you like wearing jeans and/or do not like being overdressed.
      Because either
      1) they are completely fine with jeans
      Or
      2) they are the kind of weird shites who say one thing and mean another.

      To me being overdressed is a symbol of weakness and supplication. I want to feel equal to the interviewer. Ymmv

    9. Annie Moose*

      This is probably pretty obvious, but if you do wear jeans, I’d say go with dark (or even black) jeans and make sure they’re in very good condition (no visible wearing, no holes, no studs, etc.), just to be on the safe side.

    10. CatCat*

      This is a tough one. I’d personally feel uncomfortable wearing jeans at an interview, but it also is awkward to be the most overdressed person in the room. Maybe khaki’s and the blue blazer, a white top, and nude shoes?

    11. Panda*

      On Monday, I had a situational interview for an internal promotion. (I posted about it on last week’s open thread). I was asked:

      How do you build relationships with internal clients and outside clients/vendors?

      What will you do if one of your Teapot Managers try to dump work on you? (I would be an Associate Teapot Manager who gets her work assigned by the director, not the Teapot Managers).

      How do you learn best? (He stressed I would have a lot of information to learn quickly)

      What will you do when you have questions?

      They are not earth-shattering questions and may not be what you mean. I hope this helps a bit.

    12. Jen RO*

      I think your outfit of black jeans and blazer would be great. If they went out of their way to tell you everyone would wear jeans I am pretty sure they mean you should wear them too!

    13. nep*

      To me the black jeans and blazer sounds great, given the interviewer’s indications.
      Re the interview — One of the most useful things I’ve learned (in some cases the hard way) is to have a good grasp on how you’re going to close each answer. Goes without saying, but this element can sometimes be overlooked. It helps avoid trailing off and the awkwardness that can come with that. Not to be too scripted, but just having a good sense of how you’re going to wrap up each answer can help in a lot of ways.
      Good luck!

      1. ballpitwitch*

        This is one of those situations where I am so glad this is an option for me – I always wear dresses to interviews. You can dress them up or down depending on the shoes/accessories and avoid this whole thing.

        1. many bells down*

          Yeah I have the “Deborah” dress from ScottEVest – plain black knit, conservative neckline, knee-length, and has pockets. I can dress that up or down as much as I want. If they weren’t so pricy I’d have one in every color.

    15. AnotherJill*

      If you dress up after getting this information, I think you would risk looking like you would not fit into their culture. I think your plan sounds great.

    16. When it rains...*

      I think that’s awesome that they told you to wear jeans! Black jeans and a blue blazer sound great! Alternately, you could do dark blue jeans and a black blazer. Just make sure they’re “dressy” jeans and wear a nice top and shoes so you look modern and professional. Break a leg!

    17. Eye of Sauron*

      Aaackkkk this would be so hard for me!

      Ok, based on what you said I would wear jeans (OMG I can’t believe I said that), but I would wear ‘Trouser Denim” and a blazer.

      So think tailored pants that are made of denim. I’ll try to find a picture and link to describe what I’m referring to.

      2. A.*

        That is a great idea. I don’t think any of my jeans in my closet are appropriate for an interview.

    18. Boredatwork*

      That sounds like a very nice combination. I think ignoring their instructions would been seen as a negative, since they went out of their way to tell you.

    19. Anony Non (UK)*

      Every role I’ve had since graduating has had a situational aspect to interviewing and I now use them when hiring. I echo thinking about how you would close your responses, as well as remembering that it’s better to take a breath to think through your response so you don’t ramble.

    20. Observer*

      Remember casual =/= unkempt, sloppy, unpolished or “clubby”.

      As long as what you are wearing fits right (not too tight), and is in good condition and everything else is put together and polished, you’re outfit sounds right.

    21. DDJ*

      Be prepared to talk about actual situations you’ve encountered. And you’re probably going to get questions about “what’s your greatest strength/weakness” (ugh), short-term vs long-term career goals, why are you interested in this position specifically. Sometimes you’ll be asked about your values, who’s the best boss you ever worked for (and why were they the best). My company has a pretty standard set of situational interview questions, and they boil down to the following:
      -Organizational ability/stress/resiliency – how do you deal with constant interruptions to your work, what do you do when your day doesn’t go as planned; describe the types of situations that cause you stress at work and what you do to manage yourself in these situations; tell me about a setback you experienced and how you dealt with it; what sorts of things frustrate you, either in a job or within a company
      -Detail vs ambiguity – tell me about a time you were confused with a request and the steps you took to get clarification; describe a time when you had to take action without having the full picture, including why you needed to take action and the end result
      -Dealing with change – how do you cope with changing processes/circumstances (and tell me about a time you had to adjust quickly to change(s) you had no control over)
      -Conflict/team/work style – describe a time you had a disagreement with a teammate, and the steps you took to resolve the conflict; describe the type of work environment you work best in (predictable/structured/task-oriented vs fluctuating/fast-paced/changing, team vs independent, preferred amount of interaction with people)

      Basically, most questions are going to be “tell me about a time when…” so come up with work examples demonstrating your hard and soft skills. They’re not going to want hypotheticals, although if that’s all you’ve got, explain what actions you think you would take and WHY.

      Additionally, when it comes to things like “conflict,” it doesn’t need to be “my coworker punched me and I punched them back.” It can be “We disagreed on the timelines for this specific project, so I suggested we both create what we believed to be realistic timelines, with justifications for the timing, and then come together to see where we had common ground and where the actual disagreement was.” The important thing is not to just talk shit about your former coworkers – it doesn’t tend to go over well.

      Good luck!

    22. smoke tree*

      For situational interviews, Alison’s interviewing guide is really helpful in giving some direction about how to answer the questions, as well as a list of common questions to help you prepare. I think the main thing is to prepare some examples for likely questions so you’re not stuck grasping for a good example.

      I’ve also been told that interviewers were impressed that I wasn’t afraid to take a moment to prepare my answer before diving into it. A rambling, directionless answer is the bane of the situational question, so you want to make sure you have the basic STAR structure in your mind before you start, and make sure to end on a solid note about how your actions had some kind of positive effect instead of trailing off awkwardly. Good luck!

    23. Catnpoodle*

      I would be inclined to wear more conservative, boring blue jeans and not a bright colored blazer/shirt. Black jeans somehow are less formal, as in too much like leggings or giving rockstar vibes. Along the lines of J Crew styling.

    24. Anion*

      IMO the jeans and blazer, with nice shoes and shirt, sounds perfect. It’s jeans, so you won’t be overdressed and you show you can listen when they tell you things, but you’re not just in jeans and an untucked shirt or something, either.

    25. RB*

      Middle of the road: black straight-leg khakis, black or dark grey not-too-dressy blazer (not a blazer that’s part of a suit) and nice flats or low-heel shoes. Jewelry that you’d normally wear to a business-casual event. Maybe a scarf if that’s your thing.

    26. nym*

      I would probably do an end-run around it and wear a dress. Not a fancy dress with blazer, just a middling-casual dress, print or pattern, short sleeves, mid-calf length. It looks neither dressed down nor dressed up.

    27. WillowSunstar*

      If you are nervous about the jeans, you could go with a pair of nice khakis and a non-matching blazer. Khakis are still worn in a lot of companies, even on “casual” day.

  3. L.*

    Is the last day at a job supposed to be insane and annoying or is this just yet another reason why I made a good life choice in leaving?? Ugh, guys, we’ve had 2.5 weeks to go over all of this and it’s all in my transition document.

    1. PB*

      My last days have usually been pretty chill, so I’d say it’s another reason you made a good choice. Just plan to get through the day, and do something nice for yourself tonight.

      Congrats on your last day!

      1. Schnoodle*

        My last few days were crazy at Old Job. And I had made a department manual (I’m an HR dpt of One), sent out updates on leaves, benefits, etc. Yet two days before my last day you’re going to freak out? Seriously.

        Just know its your last day, last day of crazy for a while :)

      2. L.*

        Ugh, I wish it was chill! I’ve already been pulled into three or four things this morning. My team is supposed to take me out to lunch today and I’m just hoping the break in the day gives everyone a chance to calm down.

        1. Ali G*

          Hopefully it will be a 2 beer lunch – sounds like you earned it!
          (and yes – this is a sign you made the right decision)

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      It’s supposed to be chill, and if it’s not, then, yes, that is yet another reason why you made a good choice in leaving. I know someone who, on her last day at a job, was being assigned projects to do, and she was like “What? This is my last day. No.”

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        And by “projects” I don’t mean something that could be completed in a couple of hours—long-term projects.

      2. L.*

        People keep being like, “Oh, you’ll volunteer to help with this after you leave, right?” Like… no. I know you’re a charity, but you’ve been paying me for my work for 3+ years and I don’t intend to give you any reason to think work should be free.

        1. PB*

          People keep being like, “Oh, you’ll volunteer to help with this after you leave, right?”

          … the heck? Wow. I’m glad you’re getting out.

        2. The Other Dawn*

          That makes it sound to me like they aren’t prepared for your departure and no one bothered to read your transition document. Two and a half weeks ago they probably thought, “Eh we have a lot of time.” And now they’re like, “OMG L is leaving in a few hours!! What are we going to do? Did anyone read the document L wrote??”

          And this is why it seems like you made a good choice to leave. Good luck!

    3. Falling Diphthong*

      It’s supposed to be a chill time eating food and trading carefree “remember that time Wakeen got stuck in the copier?” stories. You made a good life choice.

      1. LJL*

        yes, it’s supposed to be chill. My last day at Evil Old Job was crazy and evil boss even held me over late! At that point I was so glad to be leaving that I just smile and celebrated a little extra after work.

        1. L.*

          Uuuugh god I hope they don’t do that to me. I’m kiiinda hoping to be done early tbh. If they don’t find another few “urgent projects” that need finishing.

          2. designbot*

            yeah, ‘just say no.’ I was late to my own going away party at one place, and they even laughed at me for it! I was like welp, maybe you should’ve ramped down my involvement in some of these projects then…

        2. Sandman*

          I had the same thing happen at OldJob! Pretty sure they were taking advantage of my conscientiousness (and lack of work-related boundaries, maybe?), but it was so ridiculous.

    4. Bea*

      My last day at Job I Loved was hard emotionally but the transition weeks sucked, the person I trained was inept AF.

      The last day at my toxic job was wonderful, I was 110% no efs left and their sudden tasks or questions were easy enough to ramble off. They’re also stupid and had no transfer documents and a horrid temp dropped in as a replacement, so I just puddered along until I literally danced out the door.

      1. Marthooh*

        Things your should do BEFORE your last day on the job:

        1. Document the scope of your work and its processes; this includes training your replacement, if applicable.

        2. Document current projects.

        3. Ask your manager and coworkers about other ways to smooth the transition.

        4. NEW: Pick out a play list for literally dancing out the door at the end of your last day.

    5. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

      I think it should be more chill than insane, and the fact that it is insane for you is probably an additional sign that it was a good choice to leave.

      Two jobs ago – during my notice period I spent so much time documenting current procedures and I created a whole packet to hand off to my closest team member (in terms of work – not personally. She actually drove me out, but that a whole different storoy). This team member kept trying to give me more work. Finally on my second to last day I started responding to every email with to-dos (unless it was something that I could do quickly and would involve no follow up) I started responding with “I’d suggest you handle this, as tomorrow is my last day and I will not be here to xxxxxx”. I responded to multiple emails this way, but she kept sending tasks/to-dos. Then on my last day, around midday I handed over a list of open/pending items. She looked at me like I had two heads and asked me “well, what of this list, do you still plan to do?”. I wanted to scream “NONE OF IT B!@&$”.

      I was also contacted about a month after leaving by the dept head asking about something fairly important that I had very clearly marked/documented in like 3 different places. It felt good being able to respond with “It was in the packet of documents I left behind with Evil Team Member. It was the first document within the packet, oh and also left a digital copy in this public folder and email a copy of the digital file to Evil Team Member on my second to last day”.

      1. Mickey Q*

        After I received my final check, severance check and we had exchanged goodbye, great to work with you emails, my old boss kept delegating me tasks. He would text and ask if I had set up this week’s wire transfer or handled the such and such issue. I think he had alzheimers and forgot he cancelled my job. Now I’m afraid if I try to use him as a reference he will forget I even worked there (for 13 years).

        1. Bea*

          As someone who had a boss develop Alzheimer’s, this just gave me a lot of feelings. Depending on his age, he may just be forgetful it’s not necessarily dementia. I hope for him and his family he’s just forgetful.

          You should ask for a letter of reference because you’ll also run the risk he dies regardless. Unless the place is large enough to get another person to confirm you worked there? The comment makes me feel like it’s small business though.

      2. WillowSunstar*

        The person who replaced me at my last job 6 months ago still once in a while IMs me with questions, but we work for the same company. I wound up transferring to a different division.

    6. Can't Sit Still*

      If it’s insane and annoying, you’ve made the right decision, and you can leave without any regrets.

    8. lnelson1218*

      There was in my history a temp assignment coming to an end as the position was up for elimination and the other members of the team were going to take over (this was in an HR department). All lower members of the team were trying to figure out what the new procedures would be. Management did nothing.
      A few days before my last day, my “I am not even going to do my job” manager gave me a about a dozen folder of new employees. I asked who was going to take this over so I could show them what to do. His response was “oh let’s just handle it as business as usual” and smiled and walked away.
      I didn’t work out my last two days. What was the point in staying to transition the job if no one else was doing their part?
      Funny no one else who knew what an idiot that manager was blamed me for cutting my two week notice (very generous for a temp) two days short.

    9. SDSmith82*

      My last day at former job was like this. My boss had nearly a month’s notice I was leaving, didn’t post the job notice until two weeks before- and hired someone the Wednesday of my last week (so i had three days to train her). I was expected to shove as much at that poor lady as I could while we were both there.

      Not only that- but my “exit interview” with our out-sourced HR lady was in an open hallway, and kept me at work 30 min past what would have been my normal time to go home- even if it wasn’t my final day- AND everyone was listening while it was happening so I couldn’t really be honest- and that office needed brutal honesty. The only real reason that I went in that day instead of taking sick time I was going to lose, was to collect my check- and try to help new lady- former boss didn’t have the check, decided she would just direct deposit it instead for the following Monday (again, despite having 3 1/2 weeks notice)- and messed up the amounts by close to $1,000, which meant I had to come back to the office for a live check that next week. TALK ABOUT AWKWARD.

      Yeah.

    11. Bluebell*

      Oh honey, my job called me a month *after* I had started my new job to ask for a meeting about one of my projects.

  4. CurrentlyLooking*

    Surgeries while looking for a new job

    I will be having surgery soon and there is a decent chance that I will get a call back from a prospective employer during that time. Will it hurt my chances to tell them I am unavailable a particular week due to surgery?
    I don’t want to give the appearance that I am unhealthy but if I explain the type of surgery, I also may seem old. Additionally, there is a good chance that my arm may be in a sling if I go in for an interview the week following the surgery.

    1. Stormfeather*

      Could you just say you’re unavailable that week, and leave it at that?

      Or just maybe say something about “having arm surgery” (if that’s what it is since your arm is in a sling) and not go further? I mean that doesn’t really scream “unhealthy” in general and doesn’t go into the age thing. At least to me.

    2. Murphy*

      I might just say “medical procedure” which keeps it a little more vague. But I don’t think it would hurt your chances regardless. If they’re reasonable, they won’t push you for details and won’t think anything of it.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if they asked about the cast in person though, so I’d have a ready answer for that.

    3. Schnoodle*

      I wouldn’t think twice of a candidate telling me they’d be out for a surgery and would not be available during a certain time frame or that they would be in a sling afterwards and may have to come to an interview that way.

      I wouldn’t divulge specifics of the surgery or anything, just keep it as light as possible.

    4. Karo*

      I think you can get by with saying that you’re unavailable a given week without saying why. When I was scheduling my last job interview, their slots were all for a week I was going to be out of town. I just told them I was unavailable the week they were doing interviews and asked if they could accommodate an earlier or later day – that was it. If they press, you could simply say that you’re having a minor medical procedure done.

      As for arm in sling during an interview – again, I wouldn’t worry about it. They may ask if you’re okay, but no one’s going to be put off by it.

      Also, FWIW – the only surgery I can think of that reads as old is a hip replacement, and that’s just because of the trope – and I pretty quickly went to “but what if they’re just accident prone?”

    5. SpaceNovice*

      If it does hurt your chances… do you really want to work for that employer? (Unless you’re in a situation where you absolutely must have a new job for financial reasons.) Just be vague about being out recovering for surgery and if that nixes your chances, you’ve dodged a bullet.

    6. LKW*

      If you’re going to be under the knife and in recovery for a day (or two) as in under general anesthetic and doped up on painkillers then put a polite message on your voicemail that says that you’ll be dealing with a minor medical issue and you may be delayed in responding to calls but you’ll return calls as soon as possible. Arm in sling for an interview is no problem. Just be prepared for awkward handshakes if it’s your right hand.

    7. CurrentlyLooking*

      Thanks for the advice!
      The surgery is for rotator cuff (shoulder) – I spent many months in PT for it where I seemed to be the youngest person their with that type of problem which is making sensitive for it making me seem older.

      1. Sled dog mama*

        This seems to be a common thing where older people look to less invasive or less costly solutions first, and some younger people jump straight to the “just fix it so I can get on with my life” fix. Sometimes medical professionals contribute to this by offering surgery more readily to younger people. More often older people have multiple medical issues (called co-morbidities) that make surgery a bad choice for them so the population pursuing a non-surgical treatment to a problem that has a surgical treatment will almost always be skewed older.

      2. cactus lady*

        I had a similar shoulder surgery right after starting a new job and was out for about a week. I’m in a pretty public-facing role and my job requires meeting a lot of people, I’m also much younger than the average person having this procedure, and was in a sling too. I was worried that being out and in a sling would reflect poorly on me somehow, or get me behind on stuff, or any number of other anxieties. But it didn’t! My employer is pretty great, people were very understanding. It was actually a good litmus test for how happy I would be in the position. If they’d been weird about me needing to take time off (I tried to negotiate a later start date because the surgery was already scheduled, they really wanted me to start at a certain time for some required training, but told me to take off as much time as I needed to recover), or made me feel weird about meeting some really important folks when I was in a sling, that would’ve been a red flag. So don’t even worry about it – I was up front about shoulder surgery because the sling was so obvious, but you could just say medical procedure. When people asked what happened, I just said “I was injured and ended up needing surgery.”

        It’s easy to overthink, but I don’t think you need to worry too much! A good employer will be understanding.

      3. Nerfmobile*

        My dad had rotator cuff surgery when he was in his 30s, so I certainly don’t think of it as anything just for old people.

        1. Quinoa*

          My brother had that surgery when he was 27. He’s really active, and damaged it doing sports. So it’s definitely not an age thing.

  5. Cancer Crush Anon*

    Hi all. I haven’t updated in awhile.

    Some crazy things have happened. I’ve been rejected for about 4 jobs I was in the process of interviewing for. Killed my moral. My boyfriend just got a job in another city 2 hours away. It’s a phenomenal job and I’m very excited for him. Due to this, I’ve decided to start looking in his new city too. The opportunity isn’t here for me where I am now.

    I’m working with 3 recruiters from big name companies. All say that I should be hired quickly but I am not seeing anything from them. We signed a lease on a place on Monday, but I will not move down until I get a new job. Unfortunately, this is proving to take a lot longer than expected. I have been searching every single day since January 26th (when this happened).

    I’m debating looking into other careers or taking a lateral move in pay. I asked for feedback on the last interview I had and HR didn’t answer my question and just suggested other companies to try. I wish there was something like a career counselor for my job that could tell me what jobs I might be able to excel in. I’m very worried that I may have to take a pay cut.

    I have my performance review at my current company in the next few weeks, and I know my boss will say I am not doing well. It’s hard to do well at a company when the CEO tells you he has a crush on you. I’m afraid she will put me on a PIP.

    It may sound that I’m depressed about this, and honestly I am a little bit. But I am very excited for the new city. I’m excited to take this next step in my relationship and I am excited about the prospect of new jobs.

    1. Parenthetically*

      That’s just so much — and a lot of potential excitement! Fingers crossed for you. :)

      1. alice*

        Not OP (obviously) but I found this comment a bit condescending. I just wanted to point that out.

        Can you reach out to people in your network to get an idea of what other position exist with your skillset? Maybe join a meetup in the new city? At this point, I’d definitely look at a lateral move. It would be the best option, even for just a year while you keep looking. Best of luck.

        1. Cancer Crush Anon*

          I didn’t really find it condescending, personally. Just fyi.

          I’ve reached out to my friends/network in my current city but have not in the new city yet. I’m hesitant to tell people I’m moving to new city because I’ve been getting some judgmental comments about moving to live with bf.

    2. Schnoodle*

      Searching for less than 3 months isn’t really that much time really. I know some get it sooner than that, but stay patient.

      If you are not thrilled with your career path right now, I would try to dig deeper and think of what you might want to do instead, if schooling would be required, etc.

      1. Cancer Crush Anon*

        I have a master’s degree so I’m not planning on going back further :(

        I’ve always gotten jobs within the first month of searching, and I’m extremely anxious about going to work every single day due to the sexual harassment I endured. It sure feels like an eternity for me.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Maybe there’s some regional variations in what employers are looking for? Regional interview styles? Resume styles? Etc. Or people could be applying for new jobs right now to make sure they move between the school year.

          I really wish you luck–although I haven’t commented before directly, I’ve been keeping an eye on your comments, and I hope you get out soon.

        2. Anion*

          Have you given them your boyfriend’s new address, or are you using the old one? I’m sure your cover letter or the recruiter explains that you’re planning to move, but I wonder if people are seeing your address in another city and thinking they want someone local to start right away, or something?

          Best of luck to you!

          1. Cancer Crush Anon*

            Hi! I’m doing all of the above.

            Before we signed the lease I said that I was in the process of relocating and would not need relocation assistance (as advised by a letter Alison answered years ago). My resume now says bf’s new address so that it is in the same city. Recruiters know and when I get phone interviews I’m letting them know that I’m in the process of relocating, will not need assistance, and getting down to that city is no problem.

    3. Lucky*

      I’m so sorry that you’re still dealing with the fallout of your terrible crushing CEO. How to address that issue and your company’s mismanagement of it during your performance review would be a great question for Allison.

      As for looking in your new city, have you approached any temporary placement/direct hire agencies? It sounds like you need to get out of bad job and move to your new city, so even a short-term placement would allow you to move and get your foot in the door at a new company. Then, network a bunch and hopefully move into something more permanent.

      Also, there are career counselors who work with a broad range of career areas. A good one can help you to drill down to your core skills/attributes and tell that story in your cover letters/resume. I worked with one a few years ago and she really helped me to figure out how to market myself. It’s been invaluable both in my job search since then, and in my current position.

      1. Cancer Crush Anon*

        I am working with 3 recruiters. I told them I’d be open to Contract to Hire, but not Contract…maybe I should tell them I’d be open to Contract too…I’m just afraid I won’t get a job after the 3/6/whatever months and that I won’t have benefits.

        Do I just search “career counselor CITY” ? I didn’t know if those things really existed past your college career center.

        1. Lucky*

          I tried to find my old career counselor to see what certifications she had, but I can’t locate her. Sorry. But in my search, I did see that Yelp and LinkedIn both had listings like “10 best career counselors in CITY,” so maybe you can start there. I would interview the ones that seem like a good fit, asking about methods and success stories. Mine was more of a coach than a counselor – a bit woo-woo, but she got the job done.

          Also, see if your alma mater(s) have any reciprocity with the universities in your new city, so you could use their career office. If you’re in STEM or some other specialized fields, they may be able to get you job listings or onto job boards to find positions or meet people you wouldn’t have access to otherwise.

          I will be waiting for your future “got a job, so long crush CEO” update.

        2. Ali G*

          Yes! There are real career counselors out there and this is exactly what they are for. Recruiters will try to find you a job based on the skills you currently demonstrate and what you say you want to do. A counselor will look at your skill set and help you figure out how you can leverage them to do a broader range of things, or help you figure out your next move if you want to transition careers.
          I’m sorry, your situation sucks. I really hope it improves for you.

        3. Tuckerman*

          You should still be able to access the career services department, where you got your degrees.

    4. Bea*

      Looking 2hrs away is a great way to explain why you’re leaving, it saved me a lot of suffering awhile back. So I hope expanding your radius pushes you beyond this horrible place.

      1. Cancer Crush Anon*

        Yes, exactly. And CEO has a lot of “guilt” about this, so me saying “oh well bf got a job that’s why I’m leaving” may spare me from his “guilt apologies” further since I’ve already had 2 of those.

    6. Hillary*

      Good luck – fingers crossed for you.

      During my last job search I moved up to middle management, and I was kind of amazed at how much longer the process took. I had to keep reminding myself that the senses of urgency are very different between the company and the candidate.

      On another note, you might not know that the benefits picture can vary dramatically with specialist agencies. I spent a couple years contracting for one that mostly places engineers (i.e. if you need an experienced engineer to fix a problem on an off shore oil rig, they’ve got a guy) and their benefits were comparable to most of the small companies I’ve worked at. My boyfriend’s a contractor, his benefits are better than what my last company offered.

    7. sunshyne84*

      I think you’re anxiety is coming across in interviews that’s why they couldn’t give you any feedback. Is it possible to just move and be without a job for a bit or take some time off? You sound like you really need a break and I think it would help to get your mind off that as much as possible so you can put your best self forward in those interviews. Best wishes!

      1. Cancer Crush Anon*

        I get what you’re saying but I’m not sure if it’s that obvious. I do pretty well in interviews, and I sort of view it as a role, like if I were acting (which I do!). I’ve actually complimented the CEO in a few of the interviews -gag-. But it could be a factor. I’ve reached out to a career coach on LinkedIn like others were suggesting above and a lot of them seem to offer video mock interviews so maybe that might be something worth checking.

        Unfortunately I do have a mortgage and I’m pretty much living paycheck to paycheck, I don’t think I can take time off and still afford life.

        1. Slartibartfast*

          Some states allow unemployment if you quit under conditions that would make most reasonable people quit. If your state offers that, it might be an option for you. Downside is that the burden of proof would be on you. Being fired for poor job performance won’t necessarily disqualify you either, if you do end up on pip. Might be worth looking into, just for peace of mind. The unknown is always scariest.

    8. designbot*

      Making a lateral move in pay isn’t the worst thing, especially if there are other benefits that come with it—like getting away from a toxic boss, better work culture generally, or something more concrete like better benefits or title. I’ve made a couple of lateral moves in the past and while my pay isn’t going to wow anybody I’m now positioned exactly where I want to be and consider it worth it.

  6. AlexandrinaVictoria*

    What recourse do you have if you think you are not being advanced in your career due to disability and use of intermittent FMLA, though no one is stupid enough to say that because they know it’s illegal? Looking for suggestions, please.

      1. lazuli*

        Are there disability rights groups in your area? They may have suggestions for local agencies that can help, too.

    2. fposte*

      Do you mean legal recourse or are you looking for other strategies? For the legal recourse, you can talk to a lawyer whenever you want and find out more about what the lawyer would need to know to pursue the question. For the strategies, your best possibility is probably to start looking elsewhere, but if facts align you can use them to advocate for yourself: “I reached the same goals that the other Teapot Techs reached and they were promoted but I wasn’t. Can you give me some insight into what I’d need to do beyond the standard goals, and if there’s a concern about my performance that we should talk about?”

    3. Former Retail Manager*

      Have to agree with fposte….more than likely time to move on. If this pattern has been present for an extended period, like years, then I’d strongly consider moving on. Quite honestly, if the promotions that you are/were seeking involve you managing others, meeting certain deadlines, being present at key meetings, etc. and your disability prevents that, be it with or without ample notice, I can understand the concern of management. It can be hard to accomplish things when the person responsible or in charge is unable to come in at the last minute due to a health concern. Please don’t feel like I’m criticizing you, but you’ve gotta look at it from their perspective as well. If what I mentioned isn’t the case and your disability and FMLA time would have no impact on the position, then they’re certainly being unfair, but regardless, your current company seems to have made up their mind about you and unless your disability goes away, I can’t see that changing. Best to see what else is out there if you can.

  7. Employer retroactively decreasing pay*

    So this is more of a legal question but I’m hoping someone might have some insight.

    I was given a promotion and raise effective March 1. It was a significant ($7000) raise, and today was supposed to be my first paycheck. I have a job offer in writing with the salary, title, and effective date.

    Last night my boss (the VP of HR who reports directly to the president) told me that he “wasn’t authorized” and that the raise isn’t happening. Even worse, he told me my check today would be with the raise, but my next check will have deductions to make up for the difference between the raise and my previous pay.

    So I know retroactively decreasing pay is illegal as hell. My question is, would this qualify as constructive discharge in terms of qualifying me for unemployment if I resigned?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      That’s so specific on your state (assuming you’re in the US) and even local judge. You’ll have to talk to an employment lawyer in your local jurisdiction.

        1. Employer retroactively decreasing pay*

          Yes, I have an official offer letter with the salary and effective date.

          1. RVA Cat*

            Do you have anything in writing rescinding the raise and spelling out the deductions? Maybe talk to payroll to see if they have documentation.

          2. Schnoodle*

            Then you have some ground here…it may burn some bridges though. It’s up to you to balance the pros and cons, but I would be soooo PO’d to suddenly have a lower salary than agreed to.

    2. RVA Cat*

      That is outrageous! Talk to a lawyer.
      In the meantime, is it possible for you to take PTO during the next pay period while you get this sorted?

      1. Employer retroactively decreasing pay*

        I already took today off. Tbh I don’t know if I am ever going back. I was originally supposed to get this promotion/raise in January.

    3. Millennial Lawyer*

      That is so shady! My legal advice is to not rely on legal advice on this sub and instead consult an attorney.

      For your question in particular I also recommend looking at the U.S. Department of Labor website and your state’s DOL website, it probably has good resources for this situation.

    4. Anon for now*

      Eligibility for unemployment varies state to state. Look into your state’s requirements and be prepared to defend it to the unemployment agency if you get denied and have to appeal. I would avoid using legal terms of art like “constructive discharge” and stick to the facts of what happened if you represent yourself (and most people do in unemployment appeals). If you are denied and the company has a lawyer for an appeal, probably worth having one yourself so they don’t dominate the hearing.

      On the backwages… are you owed $7,000 right now, or would that have been spread out over a year (like it’s really about $600 right now?) I think that would influence my decision on how far to pursue it.

      Good luck. This totally blows.

    5. Bea*

      Talk to BOLI, do not quit without solid legal advice.

      They screwed up by putting it in writing.

      I think they think they’re safe because they are acting like they didn’t give you a raise, they’re acting like it’s an overpayment. If you are overpaid in error, they can make you give it back, that’s not decreasing pay.

      1. I'm Not Phyllis*

        I’m not a lawyer, but this is where I sit with it too. This isn’t an overpayment that they’re looking for repayment on, this was a raise that they agreed to (in writing, no less) that they’re now trying to claw back. Run, don’t walk, to a lawyer’s office.

    6. Yetanotherjennifer*

      You’ve got an awfully long delay between doing the work and getting paid for it. If you wanted to buy some time and hopefully some money, you could take the ‘we’re on the same team’ approach that Alison often recommends when first pushing back on something possibly illegal and mention that you’ve already done the work for that paycheck and wouldn’t the claw back be considered a retroactive pay decrease and get the company in trouble. can’t hurt and it might allow you to at least keep the raise for a short while.

      1. RVA Cat*

        Good thought.
        Another angle to take – if your boss wasn’t authorized to give you the raise, doesn’t that mean he also wasn’t authorized to promote you? If you’re being busted down to your previous salary you shouldn’t be expected to take on the new duties.

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        Thank you!

        It would shave at least ten minutes off my commute each way. They do reviews every 6 months (with salary increases, if applicable). And they pay for your insurance.

        I kind of can’t believe I’m in the running for it.

        1. ThatGirl*

          IIRC, you’re in the Chicago suburbs, same as me — I got a shorter commute last year and let me tell you it does actually make a difference :) My fingers are crossed for you!

        2. Anion*

          You’re in the running for it because they think you can do it and that you deserve to have a great job with great benefits. And they’re RIGHT! So go get ’em!

          Best of luck to you (you won’t need it, I’m sure)!

  9. One That Loved Not Wisely*

    I applied for what is basically my dream job and now have an interview set up, hurray! However, I am struggling with explaining my work history. Relevant job timeline:

    A little over a year in position X, in beloved homestate.
    Moved to hell state for bf’s job.
    6 months in temp job.
    10 months in terrible job, with ridiculous overtime.
    8 months in nice job that I liked.

    Break up with bf. Move back to homestate.

    9 months in nice job that I liked.

    Get back together with bf. Move back to hell state. Look for jobs. Don’t get a job, break up again (and to quote Ms. Swift, we are never, ever, ever getting back together).

    Move back to homestate, get hired back on to position X that I had in the very beginning.

    I have a 10 month gap between jobs in homestate. Do I have to tell them I moved out of state and came back? Ex had a job where moving a lot was fairly typical, but my resume just looks like a job hopper. Would it be weird to say that I moved a lot for my ex’s job but we’re not together any more? I have a lot of feels about the moves and our relationship so I know I’ll have to practice on how to address my work history, but I have yet to find a good way to frame it.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m confused. Are you looking for a job now? Or are you asking if you need to tell position X that you moved out of state and came back?

      1. One That Loved Not Wisely*

        I’m currently employed at position X- since I had already worked there, I didn’t have to interview at all. I’ve been there for 4 months now. I haven’t really been job searching because my resume looks so messy, but I did see a posting for my dream job, applied, and now have an interview. But I don’t know how to address the short stints of work, especially the gap between my last job and current job, during which I over out of state, but never got a job.

    2. Murphy*

      I might say something like “My previous partner was in a career where moving around was common, but I am back in [homestate] and definitely looking to stay.”

      2. MuseumChick*

        I like this. It’s explains why your resume looks messy without getting to much into your personal life. You could even say, “Due to my previous partner’s career we moved frequently. Now I’m looking to settle here.”

    3. Schnoodle*

      I wouldn’t even say the word ex or boyfriend. Just say you unfortunately had to move around for personal or family reasons, but are now happy to make Homestate home again and looking for stability.

    4. WorkingOnIt*

      As everyone else has said moving for partner, now planning to stay here longterm, but ultimately they can’t be that worried as they’re interviewing you and I’m assuming you provided your resume, they wouldn’t be interviewing you if it was a major concern.

      1. TootsNYC*

        chiming in late, but I agree w/ WorkingOnIt:
        They can’t be too worried about it, since they called,.

        But they will want some explanation–when I had a lot of short stints, people did. Normally, I just ran down the list. But for you, I might say, “I relocated a couple of times because of my relationship, but I’m definitely settled here now.”
        Those 10 months without work are covered in that–if they zero in on it, simply say, “It wasn’t as easy to get work in that state; that’s part of why I want to stay settled here in this state.”

        You’ve got a plus in that you were hired back at a place you’d worked before, which is always a good sign (that classic question they ask references: “Would you hire them again?” is already answered).

        If anything, they might be more concerned about your leaving after 4 months. For that, I’d say, “Well, I want more stability, and I’d been planning to stay longer, but I also always keep an eye on what’s happening in the job market, and this particular opening was really appealing.”

  10. Murphy*

    The higher ups in my office are conducting some kind secret interview. It’s marked “private” on all the calendars, and our office manager won’t tell me (which is totally fine). But my curiosity is piqued! I wanna know!

    1. hermit crab*

      Oooh, I know the feeling. Though last time something like that happened in our office, it resulted in a wave of layoffs. :(

      1. Murphy*

        I don’t think it’s that! I’m wondering if someone higher up is leaving and they just haven’t told us plebs yet.

      2. Hills to Die on*

        It’s usually layoffs or a major project or company strategy shift / rebranding. Or it could be a merger, major purchase of another company / by another company. It could be a change to the executive positions as well. The rumor mill should start up soon enough!

        1. Murphy*

          We are in some kind of restructuring I know. We’re the Office of QWERTY and RTY is becoming its own thing. I’m firmly in Q, so I didn’t expect much change for our leadership, but who knows?

    2. Bea*

      Sounds like they’re firing someone important. Voldemort started having these secret meetings when he was deleting jobs and when he secretly replaced a guy who nobody knew was getting replaced.

      1. Murphy*

        Well I’m not important and my boss was one of the people sitting in, so I’m going to try not to worry about it. (I’m more curious than worried anyway.)

    3. designbot*

      It may just be that they’re hiring someone who knows other people at the company but doesn’t want their job search to be public. My company does this so often that we have a conference room that’s used primarily for this purpose and clients with NDAs.

  11. Detective Amy Santiago*

    I got the job I wanted!!! I start May 7th. It’s about a 20% pay increase and 95% less dealing with people so I’m pretty excited.

    Had my pre-employment physical this morning and I think the only other outstanding item is my high school transcript (which IDEK why they need but they do).

    Thanks to Alison for all the great advice here and thanks to all the commenters who have been supportive during my search!

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Well, that’s clearly a sign! I will transfer the good mojo to you for your interview :)

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Was there ever an update to that crazy Reddit thread you shared last week?

  12. Rob in Tech*

    Hi folks. I have a question about employment verification. I also have a secondary question about references.

    I left my last job in less than ideal circumstances. I willingly resigned, but I was not on good terms with my manager.

    The employer in question is a megacorp that handles payroll internally. I never received my W-2s, and have been struggling with them to get it since February: the company insists that they sent the W-2 and is dragging their feet in sending a replacement. I called the IRS, but still no W-2.

    The W-2 and my pay stubs should be available on their HR portal, but I don’t have HR portal access. My account is locked, and the tier IT support procedure is to say “we’re escalating this up the chain, expect an email within 24 to 48 hours” and immediately hang up.

    This isn’t a conspiracy against me, just laziness from a few people who are all conveniently placed. Regardless of that, the fact remains that I have no pay stubs or W-2s for this job. I’m worried about getting a reputation as a troublemaker, and that coloring what their HR department has to say about me.

    I’m not sure what to do about this and I am growing worried. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

    1. Q without U*

      This info is geared toward people who need their W-2 for tax purposes, but should work for you:

      Contact the IRS at 800-829-1040 if you have not yet received your W-2. Be prepared to provide your name, address, Social Security number and phone number. You should also have the following information when you call:
      • Your employer’s name, address and phone number;
      • Your employment dates; and
      • An estimate of your wages and federal income tax withheld in 2012, based upon your final pay stub or leave-and-earnings statement, if available.

      As I understand it, the IRS will call the employer and advise them to send you your W-2.

      1. SNARK*

        “The employer in question is a megacorp that handles payroll internally. I never received my W-2s, and have been struggling with them to get it since February: the company insists that they sent the W-2 and is dragging their feet in sending a replacement. I called the IRS, but still no W-2.”

        1. zora*

          I would still call the IRS a second time. They likely have a procedure for escalating when there is a second call and still no W-2. Or at least someone there should be able to give you some advice on what to do.

          Second step, I would maybe call some employment lawyers and ask for a free consultation to see if this is something they can help with?

        1. Rob in Tech*

          Assuming that’s from an IRS or accounting software page from 2012.

          I was in college in 2012. :)

    2. Wheezyweasel*

      You’re probably the 100th person to have this issue at a MegaCorp. I bet there have been people calling about this issue since W-2s were first issue in the portal – maybe before Y2K. If they can’t make the effort to change a broken policy, I doubt anyone is going to seek out HR and say ‘wow, Rob is a real jerk for wanting his W-2’s. HR, if they have a shred of professionally, won’t think that your legal requirement to file income taxes is an unprofessional request either.

      1. Happy Lurker*

        If they can’t get you your W2, chances are the reference inquiry will be returned with “worked here from Date X to Date y”.
        I wouldn’t worry about your reputation with past HR departments that are large and inept.

    3. Garland not Andrews*

      First – file for an extension on your taxes. You can estimate taxes based on your last December 2017 pay stub.
      Request a copy of your W-2’s from the IRS. You won’t get it until like August, but you will get it.
      I had to do this a few years ago with the company I had worked for went bankrupt and the wrapping up folks just didn’t send out the W-2’s.

      Good luck!

      1. Bea*

        She doesnt have pay stubs :(

        Reminder to everyone to keep these things, print them, never rely on your employer. I’ve seen mega corps with garbage HR too many times. I hate electronic pay stubs with all my heart.

        1. Evil HR Person*

          +1 Bea!

          Except, I HATE paper more than anything, so I keep an electronic copy of my pay stubs where I can find them no matter if the company goes belly-up tomorrow.

          1. Bea*

            True true, I forget others can save pdfs of stubs! I work with a lot of older folks, our general policy is to have everyone log into their portals for them. I’ve printed off many for people who don’t do computers well, oop.

        2. TootsNYC*

          This is a reminder I need–I was just realizing, reading this dilemma, that I wouldn’t have pays stubs, because they’re not pushed out to us–not even as emails. I have to go get them and print them out.

    4. Jadelyn*

      It depends on the type of employment verification. At my org, HR verifies dates of employment, rates of pay, and rehire eligibility in general terms – not, “would you actually want to rehire this person?” but “is there anything barring this person from being rehired?” for things like theft, unethical conduct, harassment, etc. – but it’s not like we’re providing in-depth references on quality of work or character.

      If you were planning on using that company’s HR or your old manager as a *reference*, that would be different, but for simple VOEs I doubt it will affect anything. We’ve had a few “problem children” former EEs that we’ve gotten employment verifications for, including one who had threatened to sue us because he was unhappy at being laid off (like, nobody enjoys that, but it’s your whole branch, not just you, we’re closing that location completely and it’s nothing personal) – and we just fill in the facts regardless. This person was, in fact, considered eligible for rehire, since his termination was a layoff, not for cause.

      1. Rob in Tech*

        That’s nuts. I haven’t done anything like that… I know how it sounds, but it was more a severe personality conflict with a new manager that came in after my old one quit, and I will own up to not doing enough to make it work.

        1. Jadelyn*

          And that’s fair – but it really shouldn’t affect basic verifications of employment/income. That’s more of an issue if you’re trying to use them as a reference, and in a big company the HR staff doesn’t even know the line staff directly anyway, so they really couldn’t provide much info.

          1. Rob in Tech*

            So my worry is that HR just won’t pick up the phone, because they’ve done that to me in the past.

            That’s happened before with other places I worked. I just gave them first and last month’s pay stubs plus my W-2. Here I don’t have either.

            What I do have is my signed offer letter and bank statements.

    5. Bea*

      This is a mega corp, I encourage another talk with the IRS. They shouldn’t be giving you a reference anyways, the HR staffers do not know you personally. They should only verify employment and it’ll be dry and scripted, you’re not standing out in anyone’s mind. I promise this is standard practice at that size.

      Only people who worked directly with you should be giving true references.

    6. Evil HR Person*

      Not sure what you can do about your W-2’s, other than to advise you to always keep your pay stubs handy no matter where they’re usually kept. Going forward, that’s something you should do. Like forevermore. You can submit your taxes by using your last pay stub of the year, and amend thereafter if you eventually get the W-2. Not giving you the W-2 is on MegaCorp – but not keeping your pay stubs handy is on you, I’m afraid.

      As for HR, unless you did something SO egregious that they HAVE to say something (like you assaulted somebody, or broke the law in some other way) an HR department in MegaCorp is not going to take the time to give the next employer a detailed reference. They don’t have the time, for one. For two, they know it’s always safer to verify your employment than to give a reference – that’s standard HR procedure to protect the company and to keep things the same for all former employees so that the company can’t be accused of favoritism, or worse: discrimination.

      1. Rob in Tech*

        I’ll own up to not being diligent enough with the pay stubs. I’m going to keep pestering the IT folks about unlocking my HR portal account, because they’ll be useful.

        Didn’t do anything egregious at the company. My boss quit and his replacement openly disliked me, so I started looking and handed in my resignation after I signed an offer. I see what I could’ve done differently and I’m applying those lessons going forward, but it was pretty basic stuff. I worry about the HR side because it’s a struggle to get any sort of response from the company’s HR. For example, it took them 10 days to respond to my request for ADA accommodations (schedule modifications so I could go for physical therapy).

        I do have my signed contract and this company is probably the most unpopular organization in my state, so we’ll see.

        1. Bea*

          You did nothing wrong!! When others ask why you left it’s simple “I left for another opportunity”.

          You gave notice after getting a new job. Let this place fade from your memory as soon as you get you documentation.

          And drag these fools through the mud, they don’t get to brush you off. Their HR is garbage if they can’t even get you a w2…it’s APRIL.

    7. Me--Blargh*

      Most companies just contact HR and they say “Yes, Bob worked here from this date to that date.” If it’s a large company, that may be all they’re allowed to say.

      About the W-2s and pay stubs, I don’t know. Maybe a polite but firm letter from a lawyer could spur them to get this done.

    8. Yetanotherjennifer*

      I agree with the others that say that you’re probably not MegaCorp’s only victim and that you’re likely not to stand out much by pressing the issue, but you’re also not likely to get them to budge on your own. If you’re in contact with other employees or better yet, former employees, see if any others are having trouble. You may be more effective as a group. I know you didn’t ask any tax questions, but it’s the most productive advice I can offer. If you had any paystubs from 2017, you could multiply that by the number of payperiods to cover the year, file for an extension and pay the taxes you would owe based on that data. Since you don’t, I’d call the IRS back, report MegaCorp’s continued obstinance, and ask what they recommend you do about your taxes. The key is to file the extension on time and pay something if you normally owe, even if it’s based on what you owed for 2016. You get points for making a good faith effort. And eventually, the IRS should be able to send you your w-2 data and you can completely bypass MegaCorp. Also, don’t forget your state taxes. I don’t know where states get their income data, but it’s worth a phone call to see if they maybe have your info. Document everything everyone tells you. I hope you get something soon!

    9. Former Retail Manager*

      IRS employee here with advice about the W-2/tax side of things, not the reputation bit, although I personally think it sounds like megacorp is so large that the left hand doesn’t know what the right is doing.

      The deadline for all employers to submit all W-2’s to SSA was January 31, 2018. SSA processes them and then they are transmitted to the IRS where the amounts submitted to SSA are reconciled against the amounts filed by the employer with the IRS. However, this process can take anywhere from a few months to up to 18 months, according to my internal contact who is familiar with that process. From what my contact can surmise, the process has slowed down in recent years due to additional steps/safeguards that have been put in place due to identity theft/hacking.

      If I were you, I’d do the following:
      — File an extension immediately (prior to 4-17-18). This will give you 6 additional months.
      — Remember that an extension to file is not an extension to pay. If your withholding won’t fully cover your tax due. then you’ll need to make a payment with your extension. Otherwise, you’ll be hit with a failure to pay penalty when you eventually file. It wouldn’t likely be a large penalty, but why pay any penalties if you don’t have to.
      — Call the IRS customer service number again (1-800-829-1040) and ask them again to see if a W-2 is on file for 2017 (Note: You can also use the “Get Transcript” function available online to request various types of information including wage and income information (i.e. W-2’s & 1099’s))
      — I’d personally give them until about May or June at the latest (the employer that is) and if you still can’t get a copy from them via your various actions, I’d mention possible legal action because, at that point, their refusal to provide you with your documents are inhibiting your ability to comply with federal tax law.

      And as others have said….please print or otherwise save your pay stubs. P.S. I’m guilty of not doing it too.

      1. Rob in Tech*

        In fairness, I was going through a depression at the time, and I’m typically very meticulous about keeping records. Also in fairness, getting off my butt and doing stuff like this would’ve helped me get over it quicker.

        I’m going to look at the transcript function now. I don’t think they would’ve messed that up. Thank you!

  13. E*

    Just went on my first work trip (3 days, same country, no time differences) and I’m exhausted. I was excited about it when it was first booked, but now I’m quite happy to stay put in the office and be able to go home every night to my own bed. Respect to those who can do it on a regular basis!

    1. Kathleen_A*

      I find work trips exhausting, too. I usually only do them 2-4 times/year, and that’s plenty. I mean, I usually have a reasonable amount of fun (e.g., nice meals, hanging out with colleagues, etc.), but still…yeah, that nice familiar office and nice familiar home are hard to beat!

    2. LKW*

      When you do it all the time it becomes pretty normal. Unless there are long delays, then it becomes exhausting again.

    4. Green Goose*

      I have to travel about 12-15 days out of the year and I remember on my first one or two trips I tried to jam pack every minute of my trip for meetings and work and it left me pretty stressed and tired. Now I try to go for a longer period of time so the trip isn’t so go-go-go and now I like travelling for work much more and I feel like I get a lot more out of my trips.

      If you have control over this, maybe try to give yourself blocked off “down time” during your trip.

    5. Eye of Sauron*

      I used to get really jealous about all those people who were getting upgrades at the airport… now I just think “You poor bast#rd” and feel sorry for them.

      It does get a little easier and more routine as you get used to it and it becomes regular, but that ramp up can hurt.

      I’m lucky that most of my travel can be driven ~4 hours away by car and I’ve become known at the hotel I stay at. Why yes the nice man at the hotel will have coffee waiting for me in the morning in hand when he knows I’m there, and I don’t actually have to say out loud my breakfast order.

      During the summers I’m usually on the road ~50% of the time. My summer season starts next week I’m afraid.

  14. miyeritari*

    Does anyone have any recommendations for a temp agency (for me to hire a temp)? SFBay preferred, but national is fine too.

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      I’ve always gotten good customer service from Aerotek, but they do charge more for it.

      2. Oxford Coma*

        NO. I got royally, royally screwed by these con artists! My company has since blacklisted them. We now use Synerfac.

      3. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

        Same, my guy at Aerotek is fantastic. He’s in the Sacramento area though, so I can’t speak to the SF office. They charge more, but we get exponentially more candidates and better service from them. We’ve had them even come on-site to check in on their people and make sure they’re performing to expectations.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Depends on what kind of temp you’re looking for! Some agencies specialize in certain industries.

      1. zora*

        This. It depends on your industry. Best bet is to ask around in your industry.

        But if you are looking for admins, I’ve had great experiences working for Scion Staffing as an employee.

          1. zora*

            But industry is also relevant. Like, what kind of customer service, is this a tech company? Accounting/finance? Retail? do some google searches for like “staffing agency finance” and see what comes up. Staffing agencies in the bay area tend to specialize.

    3. Jadelyn*

      I’m in the Bay Area and we usually use OfficeTeam/Accountemps/Robert Half for our temp needs.

      1. Bea*

        Seconding this. I worked for them fifteen years ago and vet pretty good folks.

        Do not use anyone who isn’t specializing in what you’re looking for though. We got laborers and CSRs from the same place, it was epic failure in both departments. You want someone who’s not screening anyone for skills.

    4. NorthCalifHR*

      We use Aerotek for technical, Robert Half for accounting/finance, and OfficeTeam (part of the RHalf group) for administrative/marketing/clerical. And we’re also SFBA – Contra Costa County. Good luck!

    5. KatieK*

      If you’re looking for something in the work areas they cover, I’ve had great experience (hiring and working freelance) with Creative Circle

  15. Nervous Accountant*

    Did we mess up?

    If your boss emails you “you did a bad job”, do you just ignore it or respond back? I would always think you should respond back and it’s inconceivable that something like that is ignored but idk now.

    A client complained that a return was prepared incorrectly.. the reviewer (my mgr) spoke to him and client admitted he provided incorrect information and he understood how we prepared it..

    Boss emails mgr saying that the return was not reviewed at all–basically implying that he didn’t do his job/did a bad job.

    He sends her back an email saying that he did review it and how his conversation w the client went.

    She writes back “OMG why are you wasting precious time arguing with me about how I’m wrong????!?!!!”

    [*I* read that and my heart dropped, I can’t even imagine what he felt reading that.]

    I mean…she has a point–it’s busy and we need to work on returns, that’s priority! I felt/feel bad b/c I should have seen that as well. But I gave him the advice based on knowing that she does have a history of getting upset if you don’t respond back to her ASAP. And she’s given him a hard time in the past for emails that were “too abrupt” for her.

    Another thing that really upset me is that for years, she’s always trashed our team and praised her own team and gives my mgr a hard time about our team, yet this time she says “we’re all on the same team!”

    Other ppl read the email and thought what he said was fine and her response was way too harsh. It just feels like we can’t win w/ her.

    (also if anyone wonders why I’m so involved in this, it’s b/c I work closely w my manager on our team so….I care).

    1. Curious Cat*

      If my boss ever emailed me that I did poorly, I’d want to set up a time to touch base face-to-face and really discuss what went wrong and what can happen better in the future. But it sounds like Boss in your situation is a biiiit toxic and all over the place, so I’d proceed with caution. I say still respond (looks worse to ignore it), perhaps with a general apology & ask if she wants to discuss it more in person?

    2. Bea*

      I think that this time of year everyone is on edge completing returns so tempers will always flare up.

      I would stay out of it and maybe if there’s still bad feelings flying after crunch time is over, there can be face to face talks to squash the beef.

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      I would have emailed back that I wanted to discuss this, but could it wait until after next Tuesday? The stress level is too high in any office that does taxes to have any off-topic rational discussion. And by off-topic I mean not relating to a return that is currently being prepared.

    4. hbc*

      If she thinks it’s a waste of time to get into how wrong he is, she shouldn’t have written the email in the first place.

      Not much you can do about the fact that she’s being hypocritical, but maybe during a busy period it can be more like “The client’s not giving you the full picture, maybe we can do a post-mortem after we’re done with crunch time, or I can write you a summary.”

      But if she gets mad at him for being abrupt, and she gets mad at him for going on too long, and she’d probably get mad at not having the concern addressed, there’s no way to win.

      1. Hills to Die on*

        Yeah, she’s just a jerk. If your manager were to reply back and say something succinct, clarifying and professional, she probably just wouldn’t answer anyway. Some people are just assholes.

    6. zora*

      No, you’re in a no-win situation with a toxic boss.

      If our big boss did the same thing and the account lead wrote the email your manager did, she would say, “Oh, great. Thank you for handling. Let’s schedule time to talk later to see if there’s anything I should do to follow up with the client, or anything we could have done differently.”

      His response is not “Arguing” it’s giving her information she didn’t have, and a good boss is glad to have that information.

    7. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Like…I’d say this was terrible, but also I looked at the calendar and it’s April 13th. She really shouldn’t have sent that, but I understand because she probably feels like her hair is on fire right now.

      But also she’s not pleasant to deal with on a regular basis, from what it sounds like.

      Either way…like from your account she’s totally wrong. But also, if you can’t win with her, why try to? Do the best job you can (which it sounds like your manager did), and ignore the woman sending mildly unhinged emails with multiple punctuation marks at work like she’s posting on a message board circa 2003. She’s either mad about something that doesn’t involve your team (And it’s not your problem) or she has personal issues with your team (And it’s NOT YOUR PROBLEM).

    8. Nervous Accountant*

      You all make excellent points.

      However, whenever a client complains, no matter what it’s about, we have to address it ASAP. We get tickets that come in and if it’s not addressed in 15-20 minutes we all get an email from boss that someone needs to get on it ASAP. So that’s why w couldn’t really say “let’s talk about this on Wednesday”. We had to look in to what happened and why it happened.

      I am honestly not sure if this is the norm in other offices as this is the first one I’ve worked in (4 years now).

      1. LKW*

        If I understand the situation – the client complained. The Boss sends Mgr an email. Mgr calls client. Boss emails again? Mgr emails boss. Boss flips? Did I get that right? If so, then the Mgr should have emailed boss and client together right after talking to client outlining that they have discussed the matter and mgr explained the situation and the client understands the issue. That would have put a stop to all of this.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          Client complained. Mgr called client, client was happy. Boss emails again and mgr responds and boss flips out. Mgr sent a short email apologizing and that was that.

          1. LKW*

            Next time – Mgr should get ahead of boss and email that it’s been resolved and copy client so that the client has an opportunity to chime in and confirm. Or mgr can email client directly and say “base on our discussion… please let me know if your understanding is different…” and copy boss. That way, boss knows it’s resolved to the clients satisfaction.

          2. Boredatwork*

            Boss is insane – all your manger did was inform the “boss” about a resolved client issue. Also – garbage in, garbage out. I feel like that exact phrase explains the ENTIRE situation.

            You can’t make clients provide reliable, usable data. Just ask client if you can extend the return, have them make a payment (if necessary) and call it a day!

    9. MLB*

      Tone is misinterpreted through email and something like this should have been done face to face. I realize it’s a busy time but I would have responded saying that I wanted to set up a meeting to discuss and left it at that.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        They do interact face to face/telephone 99% of the time so I feel that should have softened the message but she was WFH that day. If we had said let’s discuss after, I don’t think she would have been happy about that either.

    10. CityMouse*

      I once had a boss who would interpret any kind of thing like that as an attack. It was a nightmare. I learned to tiptoe around her. The best way to deal with that kind of personality is to try to place the blame away from her, even if it it is her fault
      “Hey just letting you know the client gave you the wrong info here – they did X. We better watch this client carefully in the future, they tend to provide bad info.”

    11. valentine*

      Your boss shouldn’t be involving the team in a postmortem of his interactions with his boss. Given the client-is-always-right abuse and the manager’s behavior, have you looked for a better workplace?

    12. anonagain*

      Maybe I’m confused about what your respective jobs actually are, but I wouldn’t have thought that it was your role as an accountant to help your manager read social cues re emailing his own boss. I also wouldn’t have thought it was you or your coworkers’ job to read mean emails your manager gets from his boss and reassure him that he was okay. I am quite certain it’s not your job to keep a mental catalog of his interactions and the wrongs committed against him by his boss.

      I don’t know if your manager wasted his boss’s time, but it sure sounds like he wastes your time and energy.

  16. Bar Exam Question*

    A non-legal question for the AAM lawyers! If this veers too much into the personal category, let me know and I’ll repost tomorrow. I’m taking the bar exam this summer, and have an opportunity to see a friend that I haven’t seen in 6 years. The problem is, I would have to travel to her in late June/early July. I’d lose a little bit of one weekend (I’m hoping to swing my travel so I get in really late Friday and have Saturday and Sunday to study during the day and see my friend in the evening) and then half of the Monday to fly back. Is this an incredibly dumb idea? I’m getting really mixed messages – attorneys I know are like “Oh, you’ll be fine! You’ll have earned a break!” but they are all at least a decade removed from the bar and I’m worried they’re rose-colored-glasses-ing it. And then the bar exam advisor at my school would be firmly against it, but she’s also so concerned with pass rates and is basically trying to scare us into studying (she praised a student who skipped her grandfather’s funeral to study, so I can guess what her opinion on a social trip would be).

    I’d love to hear from people who’ve taken the bar in the past few years for their perspective – did you travel? Was it doable or did it create more stress?

    1. Temperance*

      Don’t do it. I took the bar exam 5 years ago, and that specific time period is when bar prep goes to shit. I remember having an actual crying fit because someone invited me to Quizzo the second week of July, thinking that my friend wanted me to fail the bar. (Seriously.)

      Can she come to see you? Travel is really rough normally, but travel during bar prep is hell. Seriously.

      1. CityMouse*

        I am trying to remember what we were studying around that time and I think it might have been state business organizations. *Shudder*. Give me a funny priest teaching us wills any day over that.

    2. CrackersandCoffee*

      As long as you are studying consistently for the rest of the summer, I totally think it’s ok to have one weekend enjoying yourself. It might even help to rejuvenate you—it’s a brutal grind and you need moments of fun and happiness. I wouldn’t have done it personally, but I honestly kind of feel like I overstudied for the bar. And I just found out yesterday that I passed it!

      1. CrackersandCoffee*

        Oh, but maybe I should add that the pass rate for my bar exam was only 35%. So now I’m feeling conflicted about my advice. Honestly to be on the safe side you shouldn’t do it—I know people who failed by a single point, and they were typically people who were more apt to treat themselves to, say, the occasional concert rather than hunkering down and studying.

    3. Trout 'Waver*

      My partner is an attorney, and we were dating when they were studying for the bar. Let me give it from my perspective:

      People studying for the bar are not good company. They are 100% preoccupied with bar prep. You should see your friend when you have the mental capabilities to relax and catch up with your friend. You will not have these capabilities while studying for the bar.

      1. AGK*

        I absolutely agree with this. My husband took the bar about two months ago (we’re waiting on results) and it was not pleasant to be around him. We tried to do an evening with friends a month before he took the exam and it was not a good idea. Your focus and attention will be elsewhere and you’ll be under enormous stress. Not a receipt for a good trip. However, we planned a small trip right after he took the exam and that was an awesome way to celebrate.

      2. Former Border's Refugee*

        Yes, this. Could you do it? Yes. Would it have minimal impact on your study time? …maaaaybe. Would you have fun? No. Would you be good company? Definitely not.

      3. BetsCounts*

        Seconding Trout ‘Waver. I am a CPA and I know the bar exam is crazier than the CPA exam, but there is no way I would have wanted to lose an entire weekend from studying, even if it was someone I hadn’t seen in a long time.

    4. Millennial Lawyer*

      You totally could and it probably would not affect your score. You will not fail because of one weekend. But *YOU* are not going to want to. Trust me on that. You will regret agreeing to it because you will be really anxious and you will likely not enjoy your time, always thinking about how you need to be studying. I mean, I don’t know you, maybe you’re a very easy going person. But the bar exam changes everything.

      Also, someone skipping a funeral is absolutely bananas and I can’t believe someone would be so deranged as to convince someone that is the right thing to do.

    5. Teapot librarian*

      I worked full time while studying for the bar. (I took the February exam after graduating in May; I didn’t know where I was going to be living.) Would I recommend it? No. Was it doable? Yes. So I think a few-day travel break is likely fine.

      1. Ugh*

        I did the same, I only took off the 2 weeks before the bar. One weekend shouldn’t make or break you.

    6. Yolo*

      A friend of mine came to stay with me during her bar exam and we got to have a nice relaxing dinner the night before, she was really close to the test location, and she passed on the first try so I’m in favor of a little friend-time in the temporal vicinity of bar-taking :)

      1. Former Border's Refugee*

        I do recommend having a hard stop to when you are done studying- mine was sundown two days before the exam, so the full day before I was relaxing and resting up.

        (Also, if you can, schedule a massage for the evening of the first day of the exam. It made ALL the difference.)

        1. CityMouse*

          I went to a pub quiz the first night. Answering movie questions helped refresh my brain.

          For me, at least, day 2 was much much easier as I knew I had the MPRE in the bag. Essay day is so tough because you have no clue what they will throw at you (“A multi pronged law firm financial ethics question? Thanks bar examiners! Can I please figure out the easements on blackacre instead?”)

          1. Glomarization, Esq.*

            I similarly “took off” the first night of my bar exam. I figured I wasn’t going to be able to meaningfully study that night anyway, so I went out for a few hours with friends at a weekly gathering. Treated it like a school night, though, and went home on the early side.

      2. Temperance*

        The night before is kind of different, though, because you really need to relax and get your head right.

    7. Cookie*

      One weekend isn’t a huge deal. I took a Fourth of July long weekend to spend some time with my family, which was good because it was the last summer my sister and I lived in the same city as our mom – who knows when we’ll celebrate the 4th as a family again. Yes, bar study is stressful and there’s a lot of information to learn, but most of it should be a review and you do need to give yourself a break.

    8. Fiennes*

      I had a friend who took a brief weekend trip before the bar exam— which wasn’t so brief when he got caught in a travel nightmare that left him no time to study and barely allowed him to return in time for the test.

      And yet, for him, this turned out to be great! He’s a serious worry wart, forever psyching himself out, brooding with anxiety, etc. Having four days of mayhem when he couldn’t worry about the bar beyond the logistics of just getting there—for him, it wound up providing a kind of mental break. As he put it, at a certain point he HAD to relax and go with events. He got to the test in good mental shape and passed.

      This anecdote doesn’t bear directly on your situation, but i think it illustrates that there’s no one right answer on “what to do before the bar”—you have to know your own personality, habits and needs. Will you be someone who needs to study to the end to stay calm? Will you be badly fried and in need of a break? Where do you see yourself being at that point, and will the trip soothe or rattle you at that point?

    9. CityMouse*

      I missed one session and it was okay, I caught up. If you are doing Barbri, you can watch the lessons remotely, even if you are doing the in person class (if you can, I would highly, highly recommend it). It isn’t the worst, but it will be stressful and you will end up pulling some extra time. You should only miss two lectures, but could miss some outlining time. That’s about 40 hours to make up (Bar study really is about 10 hours a day, if not 12)

      The thing about the bar is that it really is a 24 hour a day thing. All that review and quizzes? Do every bit. Then outline what you have my stay studied. Combo your lecture notes and book notes into and outline. Seriously. You put the work in, you will almost certainly be fine, though, my friends who failed didn’t commit 100%.

    10. Glomarization, Esq.*

      If you go on this trip, you will have a miserable time because you will be worrying so much about the bar prep that you’re missing.

      Block off your post-graduation weeks of bar prep as a “gone fishin'” period and just follow the schedule your program gives you. Plan your trip(s) for after the bar.

    11. law talk*

      Just to air out the other side a little bit, I took the July 2014 bar. Before the exam, I traveled cross-country for one weekend for a wedding and another weekend for my college reunion. I also got married across the country from where I lived two weeks after the bar (the planning for that occupied a significant amount of my time that summer). Honestly, it was fine–I enjoyed both trips, didn’t find that they made my time at home overly stressful or crammed, and am glad I did them.

      That said, this is a “know yourself” kind of question. If I were you, I’d be thinking about how you studied in law school (I was a diligent 9-5 kind of student, not an all-waking-hours kind), what your school’s bar passage rate is (mine was quite high; if your school’s advisor is very present, I’m concerned that your school’s may not be), what kind of test-taker you are (what was the LSAT like for you? how about law school exams?) and whether you’re a “must be totally consumed with this important thing or I’ll be so stressed I won’t enjoy whatever else I’m doing” person or a “I need space from the stressful things so they’re not my whole life” person (I was the latter–I intentionally lived off-campus with non-law-students during law school and declined to do a hotel for the bar in favor of sleeping in my own bed and not having to listen to other people rehash exam questions every night). Then, figure out whether those aspects of your personality and lifestyle are compatible with this trip.

    12. anna green*

      This thread is fascinating! I always heard it was a big deal to take the bar exam, but I never realized it was a full time job to study.

    13. Where's the Le-Toose?*

      The best advice is that you should only do what you feel comfortable with. If you know you will be preoccupied with thoughts about the bar, then don’t do it. If you can take a few days off and not freak out, then go ahead.

      I passed the bar back in ’95 and I still remember that time vividly. I treated my bar review like a full-time job with a little overtime. After finishing my 3L classes and until my bar review classes started, I would study from 8 am to 5 pm Monday through Friday with an hour lunch. On Saturdays, it was 9 am to 2 pm, and Sundays was just a couple of hours, usually 9 am to noon. , it was 9 am to 2 pm. When the bar review classes stared, it was pretty much the same schedule but with bar review taking up the morning. And then I stopped studying altogether the Sunday before the bar exam.

      For me, I wouldn’t have taken that kind of time off because I wanted to pass the first time (and I did). But that’s just me. You know you better than anyone else here.

  17. Youth*

    My job is great, but I’ve been casually looking for a while. The stress of writing for finicky corporate clients is strong.

    I was invited to apply for a job with a guy who’s kind of a big shot around here, but he wouldn’t tell me what he needed a writer for until after he saw my resume! So I may be in the running for a job, but I don’t know what it is, much less how it pays or anything like that! Which is kind of frustrating, since I have great pay and flexible hours and would only be interested in this other job if it was really good.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Go slowly here. If he won’t answer your questions at some point, that is a red flag.

    2. Canadian Teapots*

      Also TBQH there are job scams around Craigslist writing gigs that are a way to get writing samples out of people without paying for them.

      Not sauing your big shot is doing this but he does seem a bit unfamiliar with basic norms of keeping interviewees in the loop about what the job is that they’re applying for.

  18. ZSD*

    New Jersey will be the tenth state to guarantee paid sick and safe days for all workers! They also have the strongest state law in the nation.
    One-fifth of the US states (plus DC) now have such laws. Great progress!

    2. zora*

      YAYYYY! that is awesome news. Mandatory paid sick days in SF literally saved me a couple of years ago, it was such a relief to not have to worry about being sick AND having zero money to pay my bills. I hope everyone gets them soon!

      1. Bea*

        They are domestic violence leave days, if you need to take time off to seek safe harbor somewhere, you’re covered.

  19. Alternative Person*

    Question: Is it weird that people leave stuff laying around on desks/open on laptops and never complain that said stuff is gone when they come back?

    At work people have no problem treating any and all shared space like personal dumping grounds but never seem to get mad when something they need disappears. Like they never ask where their open (sometimes unsaved) word documents are when they come back to shared computers or if they have to go rooting through the recycle bin they just do it. It seems weird to me that they don’t clean up workspaces in the first place but the fact they never get angry about it is even weirder to me.

    1. fposte*

      I’d rather that than the people who don’t safeguard their own stuff but are annoyed that other people didn’t safeguard it for them.

      2. Alternative Person*

        True, I just find it strange people can be so caviler with their stuff and documents they’ve potentially put hours into and not for all intents and purposes care about what happened to them.

    2. Bea W*

      If they’re just leaving their stuff out, they may be aware it’ll probably disappear, and that’s why they don’t get mad about it. They may also be saving a copy to another place and just don’t care about cleaning up their stuff or if it gets deleted. Sometimes Word will ask if you want to save changes to a file even if you haven’t made any real changes.

      What drives me nuts are people who are don’t clean up after themselves or save their files like that, and then complain when the inevitable happens.

    3. Jady*

      I think it would be weird to be angry.

      It’s a shared computer, openly available to anyone (seemingly). Would someone be angry if the same thing happened on a computer in the library or at school? If anything important is on there, it’s up to the owner to keep copies, backups, put it on a USB, dropbox, network, etc.

  20. Nervous Accountant*

    More emotional and personal than work related but.

    Last Friday of tax season, and I am going to miss it.

    I know it’s such a weird weird thing to say, but…..as crazy and hectic as things get here, the long hours have never bugged me that much in past years.

    Right at the start I went through the worst possible thing in my life and I was sick for most of it afterewards. I should be glad it’s over but I feel melancholy.

    This week we hit 3 months since my dad died and I hadn’t even realized it until I wrote down the date. I felt so shitty about that. I think about him every day, I go through my posts, that day is forever etched in my memories, but it still somehow felt like I FORGOT.

    Working 65 hours a week helped me stay sane and I’m now terrified of having all this extra time now that things are going “back to normal”. It helped me avoid the family drama (ther’es always drama) and from just crying 5 hours a day.

    I’m taking time off work next month to go back to the home country and take care of legal matters. In between there was a lot of drama, but it was so easy to ignore when I was working 65 hours a week, and I am now terrified and dreading facing all of this.

    1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      The grief fog tends to fade after 3 months. When my dad died, I suddenly felt worse after three months. Totally thought I was regressing and something was wrong.

      There’s nothing wrong. It’s perfectly normal. It’s just your brain realizing “Holy crap. This is permanent. As in PERMANENT permanent.”

      Be kind to yourself. This isn’t easy, and there is no one way to do it.

    2. BadWolf*

      I’m going to say it’s good that you didn’t remember it was 3 months. Or, if not “good” at least not bad.

      I really worked myself into a state at the year anniversary of my dad’s passing. Like it was a Big Huge Thing. Then the day of, it really wasn’t a Huge Thing. I mean, I was sad, but it wasn’t worth the bad feelings I put on myself. And my father would not have wanted me to torture myself. (and this was around the time I finally went to a grief counselor, so that was pretty helpful too).

      It’s a bumpy road. Hang in there. Are there some fun things you can schedule for yourself post tax season? A new exercise class, an art class, a lecture series?

      1. NotMyRealName*

        And if it was a big thing, that’s not bad either. There’s no right way. The anniversary of my father and my sister’s deaths is a hard day for me every year and it’s been more than a decade since my sister died. It is what it is.

    3. Bea*

      I too get deep into work when stress and life are insane, it’s a coping mechanism because work is much more controlled than the outside world.

      I hope your trip home heals you more than it feels like it will right now.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Omg yes. I started to realize this. Work stress is better than life stress bc I know how to cope with it. It’s controlled chaos.

        1. Bea*

          I’m in accounting too, it’s even more controlled because it’s all the structures procedures and our reconciliation mind set. If I’m pushing numbers together my brain rarely wanders.

          It’s healthier than curling into a ball and drawing the shades for six months!

    4. Not So NewReader*

      This sounds pretty normal to me. As you say, work gave you a time out. Yeah, it does get mind-bending. I’d recommend focusing on one thing at a time. Get through the tax season. Then after that organize/prepare mentally for your trip. It’s too hard right now with work levels peaking for the season to process much else.

      Once you are getting on your trip all the work madness will be behind you. So there will be minor relief there. I always find once I get started on a big project or mission, I feel better just because I have started. It’s when I can’t start the project/mission because Other Big Thing is in my way that I start getting antsy.

      Once you are with your family, you can go very practical and dry. “Family, I only have x time off and then I have to leave. If you want me to help, we need to focus on getting the work done. We don’t have time for arguing, etc.because I must leave.”

    5. Not That Jane*

      I wasn’t working full time when my mom died, but I was an almost-full-time caregiver for my dad at that point, so I was busy. I remember he made some travel arrangements for a long weekend about 5 months after my mom died, and I made all these “plans” to sit and journal and grieve… and then when it actually came, and I had all that time to myself, I realized I had been grieving all along, I just hadn’t been aware of it. So. One lesson I learned is that it doesn’t always follow the timeline you expect.

      I eventually came up with this metaphor of what it’s like to lose a parent or close family member: it’s like the earthquake at the bottom of the ocean. It shakes everything up, but at first nothing really happens on the surface, and then hours (days, weeks, months, years) later, there’s, like, a huge tsunami in someplace thousands of miles away. It’s so deep and pervasive an effect that it may not even ruffle the surface much at first, though, you know? That was helpful for me.

      Sending internet hugs if they are wanted. I’ve lost both my parents now and it is tough, especially in the first year.

    6. FloralsForever*

      My mother also passed away 3 months ago. I was in the fog for the first month, going to work, kind of going through the motions. My team was incredibly supportive and took some of my load away, but I was still doing daily transactions that were primarily data entry that were incredibly hard to pass off. Doing mindless work helped so much. Once I gave the eulogy, it was like a weight was lifted and life could go on.

      I know you’re terrified of how you will feel, I developed insomnia, actually, and have very vivid unpleasant dreams still sometimes. I’m telling you this because grief is powerful and it’s okay and very normal to be overwhelmed even 3 months later. Work has been a great distraction for me too, and I’m thankful I have a low drama family.

      Can you take some time alone to grieve for your father before you see family? Treat your grief and their drama as two separate issues? I’m a strong advocate of physically releasing emotions (the days after she passed I cried 12 hours, but was alone), which might provide the catharsis you’re looking for, so you can better deal with your family. Also, honoring her memory helped my grief, as well. My heart really goes out to you, I understand how devastated you might feel.

  21. Cristina in England*

    Are there jobs out there where I can use my qualitative research skills, that aren’t market research?

    I am thinking of moving away from academia but I still want to use the skills I developed there. I am a qualitative researcher with a negligible amount of quantitative experience. I would like to find work where I can research topics and write reports. Do anyone of you have jobs that are like this, day to day?

    I wish I were more of a quantitative person (and have considered retraining to this end) but I really want to find a job where the primary data I work with is in words.

    1. hermit crab*

      I work on government contracts at an environmental/energy consulting firm and do a ton of that. People on my team need the skills to, e.g., understand a confidence interval or do simple lookups in Excel, but the vast majority of what we do is more like synthesizing research findings, analyzing policy, and “translating” information from the highly detailed or technical to a format/level suitable for decision-makers. I also have friends in the nonprofit sector who do very similar things, across topic areas. Common job titles include “policy analyst” and “research associate.”

    2. Clare*

      I currently work in monitoring and evaluation, and this is exactly what I do. (Well, plus writing research frameworks, liaising with clients and soothing consultants.) I specialise in international development, which usually requires international experience, but there are lots of evaluators in other areas if that’s not your bag.

      I assume from your username that you’re in the UK. I’d suggest looking at natcen.ac.uk; at the civil service websites, because there is a specialisation called social researcher that may appeal; at the UK Evaluation Society’s website to see what people do; and at general consultancy work. Jobs also come up on jobs.ac.uk and the Guardian relatively regularly.

    3. BananaStand*

      Fundraising maybe? I know a lot of fundraising/development offices have prospect researchers that look into potential big donors and their potential to give. Not sure how much quantitative research is involved with that though.

      1. rldk*

        Especially in grantwriting, quantitative is a super important skill. Especially if you want to write grants on behalf of researchers (think-tank or similar), being able to research their topic well enough to help them write a proposal and reports is essential!

    5. Lymon Zerga*

      Yes–program evaluation! I have a master’s in sociology and this is what I do. I often tell people, “Like qualitative research? Hate academia? Evaluation is the field for you!” I work for a nonprofit and I spend my days interviewing our constituents, creating surveys, doing analyses of our documents, that sort of thing. The American Evaluation Association website has some resources you could check out to learn more.

    6. Maiasaura*

      I used to have a job like this, evaluating public health messaging and communication. Think of all the great messaging work NHS does; someone has to figure out what works there. Technically it’s a form of marketing, but it’s also a social good, and extremely interesting. The primary terms I would search for in jobs and the United States would be “health communications”, “message testing”, “evaluation”, formative research”, “message development”, and “literature reviews”; it may be different in the UK, but that should get you started. Good luck!

    7. Ann O.*

      Are you interested in ethnographic work or only reading/synthesizing? Because if you’re interested in non-market research ethnographic work, user experience would be work looking into.

    8. Quinoa*

      What about UX Design? I know tons of designers who focus specifically on the research part of it.

        1. Optimistic Prime*

          Well, where you’d want to go is UX research, but most of us don’t have computer science degrees. We tend to be social scientists (or sometimes have HCI degrees, or informatics).

          UX designers usually have graphic design/art degrees.

          1. Quinoa*

            I actually know a number of UX designers in the US who have social science or not-for-profit administrator backgrounds. Many of them have gone through bootcamps to get the UX experience and the training. (And I know there are some good bootcamps in the UK.)

            1. Quinoa*

              I forgot to mention that you should look into the group Ladies that UX. They started in the UK, though they’re all over the US now as well. You could probably find some members to talk with about what the work involves, whether it would be a good line of work for your interests and skill set, what other training you might need and where to get it. They have meet-ups regularly, so research LTUX and your location and see what you can find.

    9. Not That Jane*

      Education? Our charter network is definitely using a ton of qualitative data to inform our programs. Maybe an ed tech company or innovative school.

    10. Anonymous Ampersand*

      Evaluation. Especially for charities (based on the work history of my team colleagues). Also worth looking into: public health, government departments and regulation bodies.

    11. AvonLady Barksdale*

      A lot of brand consultancies do qualitative work. I used to work for one, as a matter of fact! I’ve also hired them in the past. Granted, the smaller ones usually want a combination of qual and quant, but the firm where I used to work currently has a model where some people are qual, some people are quant. Sometimes you can find work like this in or via ad agencies; we worked with a lot of them in addition to working directly for brand clients. My current work is similar but there’s much less qualitative work.

    12. Cristina in England*

      Thank you everyone for your replies.

      I did not know that Evaluation was its own field, and it sounds interesting so I shall look into it, thank you for the links and suggestions for that. It sounds like it might be similar to Internal Auditing? I don’t know much about that either, but it seems kind of similar.

      Government, health care and policy work also sound really interesting, thank you for suggesting that. I would like to feel like I’m contributing to something, so that’s definitely an avenue to consider.

      My previous experience is ethnography-adjacent, and I never would have ever thought of UX, thanks!

      I am going to look into the natcen and civil service pages as well, thanks very much, I never would have thought of that.

      I feel like there may be hope for me yet!

      2. UK Civil Servant*

        Be aware that not all gov departments have the same pay scales.
        E.g. Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl) absolutely does the kind of work you’re after, but will pay significantly less for it, at the same level of seniority, than other departments or even other parts of the Ministry of Defence.

      3. Grandma Mazur*

        If you live within commuting distance of Swindon, there’s always the Research Councils (now UKRI)…

    13. Nerfmobile*

      User experience research. Can be very qualitative and has good overlaps with market research skills.

    14. Optimistic Prime*

      I’m a UX researcher and my job is exactly this – researching topics and writing reports! I have qual and quant training, but a lot of UX researchers have only qualitative training and there are lots of roles in which you would do only qualitative research.

  22. grace*

    About more formal mentor relationships… My company does mentor/mentee pairings, and you meet on a regular basis. What sorts of questions do you ask to get the most out of that? If you’re a mentor, what do you want to be asked? (Or not asked!) Any suggestions are welcome. :-)

    1. Muriel Heslop*

      I’ve been teaching for over 20 years and I still draw on things I learned from my formally assigned mentor. One of the great things she did was give me a list of everything that no one told her but she wished they had. I had a mento two years ago and I gave the same list to her. This probably varies by field, but it helped me to have a mentor who felt comfortable leading the relationship. Once we built a bond, I felt more comfortable going to her with questions and ideas.

      Good luck!

      1. grace*

        Ah, that’s great! That’s one thing I’d planned to bring up, but it feels a bit awkward. :) I’m more of an in-person… person (lol), and because our country is spread across the coast, we’re strictly over the phone unless one of us visits the other office. But I’ll definitely bring that up, thanks!

      2. Lisa B*

        That’s a GREAT item for a mentor to share- “things no one told me that I wish they had” !! I will add that to mine. If the person wants to go into the same field as the mentor, I talk about the things the mentee should be doing now to set themselves up well for the later. Classes, certifications, skillsets to brush up on, things like that. It can also depend on how experienced the mentee is. For my last student intern it was her first professional job, so my mentorship was really really basic (it’s ok to leave a meeting if someone isn’t being respectful and here’s how you do it with grace; bring paper and pen to all meetings; how to read nonverbals). For more experienced folks, guidance on the backdoor politics that aren’t in-your-face obvious.

      4. AnonResearchManager*

        Alison, what about doing an AAM ask the readers post on “things no one told me about work, but I wish they had!”?
        I should think a bunch of readers would love a post like that.

  23. Amy Farrah Fowler*

    Work is SOOOO slow this time of year. I know that things will pick back up in a couple weeks, but it’s like watching paint dry here. How do you keep yourself going during slow periods of your work?

    1. Caledonia*

      Clear out my desk / office. Shred / file. Sort / delete emails. Ask anyone if they need help with anything. Training courses. Take leave / holidays.

      1. Lisa B*

        Agree with training courses. Coursera is good for something with more structure, but you can find a lot on youtube. Ask your manager if there’s someone you could assist in a department your group works closely with.

      3. Amy Farrah Fowler*

        Good idea! I work from home, and we’re primarily paperless, but my desk could still use a good cleaning.

    2. Not So Super-visor*

      We’re in the same boat here right now with our seasonal slow down. It’ll only be a few weeks, and then we’ll be busy, busy, busy again, but people never seem to remember that.
      I will tell you what not to do: demand that your manager take away projects from coworkers simply because they have less seniority. I dealt with that one yesterday.

      1. Amy Farrah Fowler*

        Oh, yikes! I wouldn’t dream of taking things away from people (unless they were swamped and needed/welcomed the help). I have taken on a couple side projects from my manager, but just finished those up and my manager is off today. Maybe I can get some other projects from her next week.

    3. Happy Lurker*

      AAM – seriously. I have looked at every post this week. I haven’t done that in like…a year.

  24. Falling Diphthong*

    Survivor this week had a nice encapsulation of an office dynamic we see here a lot:

    Fergus: I hate Wakeen, and everyone else in the office agrees with me.
    Wakeen: I hate Fergus, and everyone else in the office agrees with me.
    Everyone else: Fergus and Wakeen’s endless feud is really annoying, and we need to take out one of them at random.

      1. Princess Scrivener*

        Oh my GOSH, I love Wendell, right? “You can’t rap. You have no bars.” Lol, I just outed myself as a Survivor dork, I guess.

    2. Interested Bystander*

      OMG this was two people at OldJob! One was a Payroll Clerk, and the other was an AR clerk, and these ladies hated each other, and were always trying to get everyone else on their side. It was exhausting…

  25. She's One Crazy Diamond*

    Last week, I wrote a report with a grid showing statistics and several bullet points. I sent it to my project manager for review. He said that it wasn’t good enough and that he would send the report out himself. When he sent it out, I saw that it was almost identical to the report I wrote (every single one of the bullet points were what I wrote) but that he updated a couple of the stats in the grid and replaced my name with his. Is this normal? What should I do?

      1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

        That’s not the issue. The issue is that he plagiarized my work and took credit for it.

        1. Murphy*

          Oh I know. I’m not saying that you actually need to know what you could do better. But I think it’s a good way to get them to explain themselves/the lack of differences between what you wrote and what they sent out. But I think a boss/project manager/someone above you putting their name on your work isn’t unheard of (depending on your industry) and probably not a thing you can call them out on.

            1. Murphy*

              Sorry I didn’t properly explain what I meant the first time. I’d be annoyed too if I was in your place.

    2. Kathleen_A*

      YMMV, but I don’t think you can tax your boss with “plagiarizing my work and taking credit for it.” I mean, it does sound as though that’s what he did – I’m not disputing that – but I cannot imagine how a conversation about it with him can go well or change things for the better.

      So your remaining choices are: (1) To let it go. I’d have a lot of problems with this, but there are times when, sadly, it’s your best option. (2) To report the problem to someone higher up. Or (3) To subtly let him know that you noticed a problem so that maybe he doesn’t do it again. In that case, Murphy’s approach is actually a pretty good one! You could print out your original document, bring it into a one-on-one meeting and talk about it.

    3. bluelyon*

      That doesn’t sound like plagiarism frankly. It sounds totally normal.
      The highest ranking person will generally send the report under their name. I would ask for feedback about what needs to be improved for “good enough” in a general sense but to be honest it sounds like you’re getting annoyed over something that’s pretty common practice in a lot of fields.
      This is different for something like a journal article or book but a report doesn’t seem to meet that threshold.

      1. WFH Lurker*

        I had a coworker whose responsibilities in a former company included producing monthly metrics. He would send the metrics to his boss, who would then go and modify the numbers to make the metrics look more favorable. My coworker started pdf-ing the charts, knowing that his boss didn’t know how to edit a pdf. Angst ensued. My coworker wound up out of a job, but for some reason relishes the experience to this day.

        1. Canadian Teapots*

          That kind of Sovietesque statistical manipulation does nobody any good in the long run. Making decisions based on bad data never turns out well.

          Co-worker is right to relish the experience of knowing his boss realized they were being called out on their “numbers massaging”, because directly ordering co-worker to modify the numbers would’ve been a red flag he could take to HR or to the boss’s boss.

  26. Anon for this one*

    The company I work for merged with another company. The other company has a random drug test policy. My company doesn’t but the policy was brought over as part of the merger.

    In both the state the other company is from and my state, marijuana is not legal. Not for medical or personal use. Full stop. There is no decriminalization, no diversion or no civil offenses. Any possession of any amount or any kind of marijuana charge is prosecuted criminally.

    We work in an office, not in a place where we drive or operate construction equipment or anything like that. According to the new handbook, any positive test or refusal means immediate firing. Only legal prescription drugs are exempt.

    I went to a lawyer and what they are doing is perfectly legal. No one who opposes has a leg to stand on.

    I use marijuana recreationally daily. This company is the majority employer in this area. The benefits are better than average by far and are great. We all got raised after the merger and the pay was good before it even.

    It sucks because I don’t want to get fired or lose my reference but I can’t afford to quit right now and I won’t be able to easily find a job with the same benefits and pay. Two people have already been fired. One told me he failed the test and the other publicly refused.

    Just venting. This situation sucks and the company will not entertain any pushback.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Unfortunately, because marijuana is still illegal at the federal level, you don’t have much recourse from a legal standpoint.

      Can you stop using for a while to pass your drug test?

      1. Lisa B*

        I don’t think stopping for a while would work if the new company uses random drug tests. Any chance you know someone who works at the new company that could tell you discretely how often they actually do this? Some companies will say they do random tests but only actually do it if there’s cause for concern (workplace incident/complaint about impairment that is impacting work, etc.).

        1. Anon for this one*

          Only management knows when the tests will be so I can’t ask anyone. I thought of asking someone I know in HR but he isn’t a manager and he said that even managers only decide a few days in advance. They have already tested people even though there wasn’t an incident. And I’ve heard from two people at the offer at the other company that they randomly pop up every once in a while.

          1. Annon for this*

            Years ago I had a friend use Urine Luck, with great luck. They were not fired!
            I have no idea where it was purchased or if it even still exists.

      2. Anon for this one*

        Unfortunately the tests are random. They tell you when you get to work in the morning and you have to report for your test sometime during the work day (our office hours/hours of work are 8:30 to 4:00 with lunch between 12 and 12:30).

        The lab is approximately 20 minutes from here. We don’t have transit here so everyone drives but the company will expense a cab if you can’t drive. No one will have any idea when it’s time to go because it is completely random. And not showing up is taken as a refusal.

        1. Ali G*

          Yeah this is how it was with my job. Can you get any insight on the schedule? At my old job, they randomly picked 5-10 people within the first few weeks of each quarter. So, if you didn’t get picked at the beginning of the quarter you were good for a couple of months.
          But we had the same policy – you get the email and you are required to report to the testing site within 2 hours. If not, you are fired and if you test positive, you are fired. Only exceptions were if you were on PTO or traveling to an area with no contracted testing site.

        2. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Sorry, my eyes totally skipped over the word “random” in your first comment.

          It does suck that you’re doing something perfectly legal and can get fired for it, but it sounds like your choices right now are to quit smoking or start job hunting.

          1. Detective Amy Santiago*

            And I also clearly missed the word “not” in front of legal. I need more caffeine before I comment anymore.

          2. Windchime*

            I live in a state where it’s totally legal and has been for awhile (Washington). My previous employer sent out a notice as soon as it was made legal, letting people know that it was still against company policy and they would still fire people for using it. Crazy-pants.

            My current employer could care less and doesn’t drug test.

        3. AnonAnswer*

          If you’re interested in beating the test (if it’s a closed door test without the test facility operator watching), here’s what you do:
          Go to a head shop and buy a synthetic urine kit. These do work for almost all pre-employment/random urine screenings, but will not work for more intensive government or hair tests.
          Keep the kit in your car (but be discrete, don’t leave it laying around where anyone can see it).
          If you’re randomly called in for testing, use the kit as directed, it should come with more than enough liquid and a warmer to beat the temperature aspect of the test.

          I’m not a marijuana user, but I hate how corporations encroach on employee privacy. What you do is your business, so I have no problem telling folks how to get around this nonsense.

          1. branch*

            You beat me to it! I was going to say get thee to a head shop. Another note on the synthetic urine kit — it does have an expiration date, so keep an eye on that.

            To those who say “why can’t they just quit” even if the OP does quit right now (or yesterday for that matter) THC stays in your system for at least 30 days.

      3. paul*

        Most states will let you test for *legal* substances; tobacco’s a big one with health care providers (i.e don’t smoke, don’t test positive for nicotine).

    2. KTemgee*

      That is a sucky situation. Have you thought about quitting? That really sounds like your only option in order to keep your job in the event the drug test does come up. I don’t agree with it, but it is illegal in your state, and there doesn’t seem to be any way you can push back with even a little bit of success.

      1. Kathleen_A*

        I think that if you can’t/don’t want to get another job, this is truly your best option. Your choices are to leave this job, take a chance on getting booted from this job, or give up marijuana. It really is that simple.

      2. Kathleen_A*

        My earlier comment in this thread disappeared, so I hope I don’t end up repeating myself.

        But anyway, I agree that if you can’t/don’t want to leave this job, quitting smoking is probably your best option. Your only real choices are: (1) Leave this job; (2) risk getting booted from this job (which would stress me out to no end); or (3) quit smoking. That’s pretty much it.

    3. Anon because drugs*

      I’m going to be blunt. Marijuana is not legal in your state and yet you use it daily. You are breaking the law. It sucks but breaking the law has consequences, even if you don’t agree with the law. Since it’s a random testing policy, you need to decide what is more important to you: working at a company with great benefits and great pay, or your daily recreational drug use. And you also need to realize that *if* you choose drugs over your job, you have a problem in that you will likely end up jobless, which you can’t afford, which could cascade into a whole host of problems. What are your priorities?

      1. Bostonian*

        Whoa, that’s a little harsh. Speeding, as well as texting while driving, is also illegal (and arguably more dangerous than smoking while relaxing in one’s home), but most people would say you shouldn’t be fired for it.

        The fact that this company is testing their employees for marijuana is totally invasive and unnecessary because someone could be sober at work and still have a positive test result. They’re essentially policing your activity outside of work. And while it is illegal on the federal level, it really isn’t the employer’s business as long as people aren’t showing up to work high.

        1. Working Hypothesis*

          Well, I’d argue that you should be fired for texting while driving, and probably also arrested for it. But I’ve lost a dear friend because someone did this.

          I don’t see a comparison with private, voluntary use of a drug outside of work hours. There’s no unconsenting parties harmed by marijuana use. There very well may be by texting while driving.

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Of course, another way of framing it is that she’d be choosing personal liberty and privacy over this particular job. Presumably she can find one of the other many jobs that won’t invade her privacy in this way, if she decides that’s what she wants to do. (But I do agree she’s not going to get anywhere pushing back on this particular company, and that she needs to decide if she wants to stop smoking pot or find a new job. Either is legitimate.)

    4. ThatGirl*

      Yes, it sucks. I personally think marijuana should be treated like alcohol. But you have always known it’s not legal in your state, and you choose to use it daily regardless. Sounds like you have a choice to keep using it despite the potential consequences or stop using and keep your job.

    6. Bea*

      We’re in a legal state and there are still plenty of places who will do random drug tests and pot is on the panel.

      Some places don’t care about weed, others follow federal guidelines.

      Just so you know this is still a thing for legal medical and rec states too!

      To save yourself the suffering from stress and possible eventual firing, if you can stop, do so. Then get to job searching to leave this place.

      The fact they are so heavy handed on this random testing makes me worry that it’s only a matter of time before your name comes up.

      All my previous employers only test if there’s suspicion you’re high at work or you’ve gotten hurt.

        1. Bea*

          That’s a very personal thing that has to be made by anyone in the situation

          It’s also easy enough to find a job that doesn’t test for drugs.

          It also reminds me of Half Baked when thinking of rehab for pot.

    7. mary jane*

      This happened to me with a tech merger.
      I stopped using even though MJ is legal in my state for both recreational and medical use. The merger coincided with better mental health insurance so I was able to get cognitive behavioral counseling and a prescription for prozac which removed 98% of the reason I did recreational MJ (relief from anxiety – the other 2% is that I really enjoy MJ and sci fi movies and MJ and nature hikes, which I was willing to sacrifice for the best job I’ve had so far) – I am not saying this applies to you at all, but it’s what helped me.

      If you’re a daily user, the sooner you stop the better, because it can take up to a month of abstaining for a clean test. (I’m a woman, and for some biological reason, THC stays in our bodies longer than men’s).

      I’m sorry. I hate MJ prohibition too and vastly prefer MJ over alcohol in order to get into a fun, buzzy altered state on my own personal time.

      If you google “how to pass a drug test” there are a bunch of products with varying reviews on if they work or not. These products are illegal for passing legally-mandated drug tests (like if you’re on parole). I wouldn’t do it myself (i’m way too anxious/nervous, and not a great rule-breaker), but others have used these products to pass a test, and if you do not want to give up your recreational usage, they might be your only option.

    8. LurkNoMore*

      I know a large international company that uses random drug tests as a way to easily reduce the work force. Anytime the company is looking to reduce labor costs, they wait until the local college’s football team has a big home game that weekend and then conduct the tests that following Monday morning. It works every time.

    9. GuitarLady*

      I’m so sorry. That does really suck. A friend of mine is also a daily user, and he had to delay taking a new job til he could pass a drug test. Luckily it was just a one-time thing. It took 63 days until it was out of his system enough to pass a test, so even if you quit today, your job would still be in jeopardy for up to 2 months. I would start preparing now to lose this job. I hope luck is with you, and you manage to not get tested until you can get it out of your system, if you decide this job is worth keeping!

    10. Yikes*

      I support legalization 100%. But I’m always shocked that Alison allows comments on how to beat drugs tests by illegal means. I can remember at least one other discussion besides this one where it was allowed and even encouraged. I don’t agree with drug testing employees. But advocating for illegal means with huge consequences if caught is a different matter and I’m surprised it is allowed here. Especially when other comments are sometimes deleted for less than advocating illegal activity

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Comment deletion here is relatively rare, and it’s generally for violations of the commenting rules (like hostility or attacks on other commenters, off-topic posts, etc.).

        We’re all adults here (mostly, at least) and can make our own adult decisions about what advice to take or not take. That said, I don’t remember “how to beat a drug test” ever coming up here before today, although I could be wrong about that. But I certainly haven’t encouraged it (and think it’s a really risky thing to do, because a lot of labs have ways to spot these strategies).

      2. [insert witty user name here]*

        Genuinely curious question: in this case, would it actually be *illegal* or just against company policy? This is just a company issued test, not a court issued test. I mean, sure, it’s splitting hairs, but also somewhat germane to Yikes’ discussion point.

        1. mary jane*

          It’s illegal in some states to sell these products, so if “anon for this” lives in one of those states, I guess it would be.

        2. Admin of Sys*

          That is an interesting question – At most, I think you’d get in trouble for falsifying data? But there is a form you sign attesting that you are providing your own unadulterated ‘test materials’, iirc. (I had drug tests at previous companies, but it’s been a while) I think most states don’t even criminalize having the drug in your system – it’s the possession / sale of the drug that’s illegal, not having it in your blood stream. (unless it’s a DUI or something)

    11. Glomarization, Esq.*

      One wrinkle you may want to keep in mind: If you get fired, or you are “permitted” to resign in lieu of termination, then that’s something you may end up having to explain to a future prospective employer. Or it may come up in applying for a professional license, or government security clearance. And of course there are consequences regarding collecting unemployment.

      1. LilySparrow*

        Yes. It’s not just this job. Even companies that don’t test may have a problem with a history of termination for cause.
        Unless you plan to make “marijuana-friendly workplace” one of your job-search criteria, this situation has long term risks.

    13. Syren*

      I’m curious to get another perspective on this idea from someone in HR or a lawyer on this blog. I used to work in HR many many moons ago. One of the employees came to us to let us know that they were in treatment for addiction. We had a strict policy similar to the one above. The employee asked for ADA protection for the rehab related activities (not as response to a positive screening). We talked with our lawyer who advised us they were protected under the ADA as long as they were in treatment. When they were in an accident, they had a positive screen but we did not fire them. We consulted with the lawyer and they advised against it. Since it has been 8 years since I worked in HR, more of a hypothetical, could the employee get protection from this policy if they asked for an accommodation for addiction? Not that they would want to exercise this option, but could it be an option for this situation?

      1. Anon for this one*

        I didn’t know that addiction was covered under the ADA or that it could prevent someone from being fired if they caused an accident. I learn so much from Alison and the people who comment. I hope at least no one was hurt in the accident.

        The lawyer I spoke to told me that saying I have an addiction would mean I would have to get treatment because the company would not allow me to keep failing drug tests that they are legally allowed to give. The protection of the ADA would not last me forever. So basically not an option for me.

        1. valentine*

          Given how strict they are, it’s not a good idea to admit to use or to risk asking anyone within the company (or who may repeat what you say to anyone at the company) for details about the testing. I see you want to keep both the drug and the job, but do the benefits of either clearly take precedence for you?

      2. Belle*

        Also, the ADA may not cover the addiction if it is illegal (alcohol and pain meds are the ones I have seen most often covered). So even if you disclosed, there is a chance that you could not be protected, which is a big risk to take.

        I have also seen unemployment denied for testing positive for illegal substances — so that is also something to keep in mind – just in case.

  27. Anon.*

    Confession: about a month ago, I decided to retire at the end of 2019. I spent the first few weeks in a panic about finances. I’ve settled down now, and knuckled down to get everything in place. But now I’ve got “retirement brain”. In long term strategy meetings, I’m like, well, how much do I actually care? On the flip side, I’ve been more forceful than previously about setting up long term solutions to problems that I see/foresee, and I’m thinking about getting in some new hires, with the idea that one of them will take my place. So I sort of care, and I sort of don’t.

    1. Parenthetically*

      I’ve basically decided I’m not returning to work after the end of the school year to stay home with my kid, so I sympathize with “retirement brain”! How much do my students REALLY need to be taught? Can’t I just show them movies based on books for the rest of the year? ;)

    2. AnotherJill*

      I retired a year ago from a fairly senior position in my department. I pretty much happily checked out for the six months or so prior to my last day because I felt that since I would not be around, I really had no dog in the fight for long term decisions. There were a couple of things that I worked on that I still felt a little ownership of, but overall, I felt like the folks remaining needed to figure out how to work without my input. So it’s okay (and really good for both you and them) to ramp down how much you care.

  28. Felicity*

    I have a variation of the thanking a manager, gifts flowing upwards eternal question.

    I have a manager who has helped me a lot. He’s given me a lot of pertinent advice, pushed me out of my comfort zone just enough to challenge me without feeling like I’m drowning and has put my name forward for a lot of opportunities.

    He’s making a parallel move in the company (project managing a team involved in teapot delivery as opposed to teapot design) to get more experience in different parts of the teapot life cycle.

    This means he won’t be my manager any more, though we will still be at the same teapot co.

    I’d like to find an appropriate way to thank him for everything he’s done for me. Is a bottle of wine violating the gifts flow upwards rule? Help!

    2. Muriel Heslop*

      I agree that a really thoughtful note would be great. Always my favorite thing to receive at work. I can buy my own food and wine.

    3. sleepy anon*

      Do you know he drinks wine and more accurately the kind you want to get him? That seems like a really personal gift imho.

      1. Felicity*

        Yes, after work drinks are common enough that I could buy something to his taste.

        But I am on the spectrum, so I appreciate that it might be too personal and I haven’t realised

        1. Casual Dave*

          No wine is only “too personal” if you don’t know for sure if someone will like the wine or even drinks at all.

        2. Marillenbaum*

          For myself, I don’t think a single nice bottle of wine with a note would cross the line into being overly personal.

        3. Yorick*

          I don’t think wine is a particularly personal gift, so that may vary by person.

          As long as you know someone drinks, I think it’s ok to give a wine without knowing their exact wine preference. I would still think it was a lovely gift if someone gave me a wine that I wouldn’t have bought for myself.

    4. Trout 'Waver*

      +1 on the handwritten note. My last intern wrote me a really nice note when he left and I still smile when I think of it.

    5. Bea*

      You know he likes wine.

      So a bottle with a thoughtful note is a good idea and I say go for it.

      My old boss loved wine, we talked about it frequently. For Christmas before I left I got her my favorite and told her how much the place and her family (fam business) meant to me.

      It’s not personal at all. That’s such an odd stance but it’s pivotal that you know someone drinks and enjoys alcohol.

      Case and point my old boss had a severely alcoholic son. Nobody should be giving him liquor.

      It’s a know your audience thing in every case. I know that’s difficult often. If you didn’t know his habits, I would say just a note but you know so should continue with your original idea :)

    6. AFreeLabRat*

      I agree with all the comments about the nice note, if you want to give something physical I’m always a fan of a small plant for their desk/office, you can get a cute one for under 10$ and it feels thoughtful without being personal.

    7. MeM*

      At my company, alcohol is not allowed on the premises, even if it wrapped as a gift and there is no intent to open it. If you plan to give it at work, you may unintentionally be giving your recipient a problem if your company has this restriction – check first.

      The note alone is probably good enough – if you really want to add a gift, is there something for the new office you could give? Coffee cup, new business card holder, unique mouse pad that goes along with the managers interest, etc.?

  29. sleepy anon*

    This was kind of prompted by the letter from earlier this week, but I’m in a pickle and I need some advice on if I should go ahead and try to take FMLA or not. I have severe insomnia, the “don’t sleep for days and if I can get an hour of sleep I greedily hoard it” kind. It’s been see-sawing between decently managed and off the rails completely for the past few months.

    I’m trying to get in to see a new sleep specialist as my current doctor is leaving at the end of this month, but it’s already been a month of trying and I still don’t even have an appointment date set. Just this week alone I missed an hour on tuesday in the morning, all day wednesday because of side effects of my current medication(couldn’t even stand), and then an hour and a half this morning.

    I hate being unreliable and I can feel my coworkers starting to get upset that I’m missing so much work, but every night is a crapshoot on if I’ll get any sleep at all, or if I’ll manage to fall asleep at 6am and desperately call in for another hour of sleep in the morning. If I don’t sleep I’m non-functional at best, and while my job doesn’t require high funciton, I’m known for being very high functioning and the days I have come in when I’m miserable I’ve been asked non-stop if I’m okay, if I need to go home, etc. even after I explain going home will do nothing unless I can sleep.

    I work an hourly position with decent benifits; they’ve been allowing me to take sick time for this. I’m worried bringing up FMLA will put them in a different mindset looking at me(though everyone knows of my insomnia), but I’m worried if I don’t my job might be at risk. I’ve never seen anyone get fired in the two years I’ve been here, but I could still be the first.

    1. Fishsticks*

      Could you ask for flexible start time? So if you are can’t make it in at your start time it won’t be as major? (I know nothing about FMLA so I’m not going to comment on that)

      1. sleepy anon*

        I’m not sure. We don’t work late and have fixed business hours so I don’t know if a flexible start time would be possible. I’m hesitant to even bring up the whole thing unless I have a solid plan with a backup because my boss is very much a “come to me with a problem and a solution” kind of person.

    2. Schnoodle*

      Take care of yourself. Keep trying to get in with a sleep specialist, and yes, take FMLA if needed. Your health is #1. Your performance will only suffer if you’re only attempting to survive instead of recovering fully.

    3. Jadelyn*

      The whole point of FMLA is that they *can’t* put your job at risk for taking sick time, if you’re on FMLA. Please, please please do talk to your HR about FMLA. It will protect your job, not put it further at risk.

      If you don’t take FMLA and just try to power through, they can put you on a PIP for attendance or fire you for it.

      If you do take FMLA, your absences are protected and can’t be used against you.

    4. Bea*

      First are you in a company covered with FLMA? I know a lot of folks who want to invoke that right but you do have to work where there is more than 50 employees.

      I would approach them since this is chronic and you’re seeking treatment. So you call also see if you fall under ADA as well for reasonable accommodations which somewhat of a flex schedule may help.

      If they know it’s medial leave, many will cease side eyeing and acting put out. They can also get you more backup.

      Since you’re known for high productivity and it’s noticed, you can get a lot more empathy by being forward.

      When my mom needed Flma they bent over backwards to accommodate the leave and get her back because she’s a damn good worker they didn’t want to leave. Most decent HR and supervisors will understand it’s a medical situation.

      1. she was a fast machine*

        We definitely are covered; more than 50 employees and a government agency to boot. Unfortunately, though we don’t have actual HR so I’m nervous about approaching my boss about it, but I’ve emailed her to get an appointment next week so…we’ll see.

        1. Bea*

          How do you operate without HR…my eyes just popped at over 50ppl without someone watching out for legalities. Government jobs give my private sector self internal hives!!

          1. she was a fast machine*

            We have one lady who handles payroll and such and one lady(who is also the director’s secretary) who handles hiring and such. It is pretty scary but we usually don’t have any troubles. Honestly, everyone here truly seems to be a good person and wants what’s best for the org and the people who work here…but it is a ticking time bomb because it can’t possibly always stay that way.

          2. Doreen*

            I work for a state government and the tiny agencies don’t have their own HR, finance etc departments. But it’s not that there isn’t any HR – there’s a “shared services” arrangement where a larger agency’s HR department handles the smaller agency’s needs. It’s possible that your agency has a similar arrangement.

        2. Cowgirlinhiding*

          No HR is scary but do-able. If you get all of the FLMA paperwork together (go to US Department of Labor and look for FMLA) and present it to your boss so that he doesn’t have to do any extra work. The paper you are looking for is a Certification of Health Care Provider for Employee’s Serious Health Condition. You will take this to the doctor you are working with and they fill in the blanks. Gives your boss the information he needs to put on file to run your FMLA. They may require you use all of your sick leave before using starting the day count. Good luck – not having sleep is terrible.

    5. valentine*

      See if your doctor or your GP can refer you for a sleep study. When you ask for FMLA, mention you’re working with your doctor. If you can work from home or change your hours, or both, that seems a good place to start. If you sleep better when you don’t have a schedule to keep, look at the hours you keep and see how you might adjust them to get some work in. Maybe you need 9-12 hours of sleep, or you would do best working a split shift. If you could work from home for a week, perhaps with fewer deliverables due or tasks with longer timeframes, would you be able to experiment?

  30. CatCat*

    I read the news reported by the American Bar Association Journal and every now and then, there’s an interesting piece related to hiring and employment shenanigans. So this week, we learn that there’s more than one reason it may be a bad idea to interview a job candidate to dig up dirt on a competitor, record that conversation, and then use the responses to job interview questions in a legal action against your competitor. Aside from it just feeling icky, this is a good one because the guy who did it shows up in the comments to defend his company’s actions (that seems to go over like a lead balloon).

    “Sanctions motion argues law firm secretly recorded job interview to gain information for suit”
    http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/sanctions_motion_argues_law_firm_secretly_recorded_job_interview_to_gain

    1. fposte*

      The corollary to “don’t read the comments” has to be “don’t show up in the comments to defend yourself.”

    2. MissGirl*

      Somebody needs to take away that lawyer’s shovel. He just keeps digging, in a public forum using his own name, no less.

    4. Marthooh*

      But he’s protected by the Second Amendment!

      ‘The Second Amendment states: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of the free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” The term “arms” is not defined, and certainly smartphones and other audio and video recorders are arms in that they can help keep the public safe..’

      I want to imagine the judge sputtering “Why, this is highly irregular! … but I’m going to allow it just for the entertainment value.”

    5. SubwayFan*

      Late to this party, but I actually know that guy. I used to work for a company in an industry closely linked with intellectual property. The company he was working for at the time tried to threaten my company over a free tool we had built as part of a marketing campaign, and man, I remember at the time thinking he was shady as all get out. Not surprised to see how this went down.

  31. Fishsticks*

    Hello!
    I wanted to get a feel for if I’m taking too much vacation time. I started last June right after graduation at a two person business. Since it’s so small, my boss doesn’t bother tracking my vacation/sick time and says “be reasonable” with how much vacation I take. I’ve taken off a day here and there and in January took a week off since I had family visiting. Now in May, I’ve taking 3 days off for an unexpected wedding and I plan on taking 3 days off in November for Thanksgiving and possibly a Friday off in July. Is this reasonable or should I try and cut back?

    tldr: Recently started and have no set vacation policy, am I taking too much time off?

    Thanks so much!

    2. Curious Cat*

      This seems like a reasonable amount of time off to me. I also started at my company last June after graduation and I took a few days off in the summer, a couple days for Thanksgiving, a couple extraneous random days, I have 3 days for May & planning a week in August. But it’s also dependent on company culture — so how much time off is everyone else taking? Do they seem to be doing the same thing? If your boss hasn’t said anything or seemed upset with your requests off, I’d take it to mean everything’s fine with your vacation.

      1. Fishsticks*

        It’s just me and him in the company so I can’t really compare it to anyone else unfortunately. Thank you for the advice!

    3. Schnoodle*

      I’d say it’s on the cuff. Many companies don’t even offer PTO the first year, and if they do it’s usually between 40-80 hours a year.

      I’d try to stick to 80 hours the first couple of years, but you’ll know the culture best. If they are totally okay with this much vacation, then do keep up your work life balance, it’s important. But from what I’ve seen, that’s a good bit of vacation to take your first year and a half. Not that I’m against it, just that Corporate American isn’t a huge fan.

      1. ThatGirl*

        I don’t think I’d ever work for a company that didn’t offer PTO the first year. Two to three weeks is pretty standard, though some places want you to wait 3 months or so to take any.

        1. Elmyra Duff*

          I just happened across a job posting this afternoon that bragged about 3 PTO days after a year of service. America is screwed up.

      2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        I have no idea of the statistics on this, but I’ve never encountered an employer that doesn’t offer PTO in the first year. I’d be very surprised to hear that it’s “most.”

        My jobs have offered (in my first year with them): 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, and 6 weeks. Obviously, I got progressively more senior (and hence had better benefits) with each of those roles.

        1. Schnoodle*

          I’m looking at it from the entry level employee.

          I personally haven’t taken a job offer in years that didn’t’ specify I had 3 weeks PTO to start, but I’m senior management.

        2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Right, but I’ve literally never run across an organization that offers zero PTO for entry-level employees. None of the orgs I worked for had that policy (entry-level PTO at my four employers was 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, and 3 weeks).

          1. Schnoodle*

            Both my current and last position, entry level “field” or “floor” employees didn’t have vacation until they worked a year.

            Before that, they did have it, but it was accrued so it would take a whole year to get the 40hrs/80 hrs whatever the policy was, so not immediate.

            That said, I’ve always worked for SMALL companies (500 or less, usually closer to 100).

            1. Amy Farrah Fowler*

              My sister’s company has the STINGIEST PTO policy. I hate it on her behalf. She’s hourly and accrues vacation based on hours worked, so if on any given week she doesn’t hit her 40 (or take vacation/sick time to make up the difference), she doesn’t accrue all of her vacation. Those hours do not become available to her until her anniversary date.

              So no vacation the first YEAR and that first year, you only accrue 40 hrs. She got sick during her first few months and missed several days (completely unexpected/unavoidable), so when her anniversary rolled around, she only got something like 38 hours. Absolutely ridiculous. She even had to argue with them this last year because they gave her a bereavement day when our grandmother passed so she could go to the funeral… but the system didn’t have her accruing PTO for the bereavement day, I know it’s a very small fraction of an hour, but the principle of it is absolutely disgusting.

              My job is 4 wks PTO and I can use it as I accrue it and the company will allow you to go up to, I think 40 hours in the negative (which really impressed me because a lot of places won’t allow you to go negative in PTO)

          2. Elmyra Duff*

            Warehouses, retail, food, general labor. Mostly anything that aren’t in an office. Data entry and call centers are bad about this, too. Blue collar jobs almost never offer anything in the first year, unless it’s some kind of unicorn company.

    4. Moonlight Doughnut*

      It sounds like you can just ask! Show your proposed schedule to your boss and ask if it’s acceptable! Say something like: “It’s great that you’ve offered me some flexibility with regard to my days off, but I want to make sure I’m still putting in the hours you want and accomplishing the needs of your business. Here’s the planned vacation time I have for the next 6-12 months, and it’s likely I’ll need a couple of sick days/mental health days throughout that time period. In total, about X or X+2 days. Does that seem reasonable to you?”

    5. Jennifer*

      This is gonna depend on your work culture big time. I don’t think this sounds unreasonable though whatsoever.

      I think “unreasonable” would be something like taking more than 2 weeks off at a stretch (though if you do some long international trip, that’s probably not doable), or taking lots of weeks off throughout the year. If you were out for a week at least once a month or something like that.

    6. TotesMaGoats*

      Ask your boss! I’m struggling with how to frame it that doesn’t come off like “i’m newbie and need your guidance” but maybe a loop into a conversation about other things you are checking on?
      “Can you give me feedback on how I”m handling X, Y and Z tasks?”
      “You rock. Here’s a couple things I notice but otherwise. Good job Fishsticks.”
      “Thanks. Is my PTO usage in line with what you were expecting?”

      I’m still not super happy with the last line but that’s where I would go with it.

      1. Fishsticks*

        Thank you for the possible lines! I check in with him every other morning or so and every evening before I leave just because of the size of the company so it’s pretty easy to work those in!

    7. Tardigrade*

      That all sounds like about 2-3 weeks spread out over the year, which doesn’t seem unreasonable to me but my opinion doesn’t matter. If you’re really concerned, ask your boss about it.

    8. Rookie Manager*

      I think that seems like a very small amount of leave, however I’m UK based. For comparison I am at the bottom of my organisations leave allowance. Couple of days in January, a couple of days in March, a week booked in June, 1 day in June, 2 weeks booked for September a couple of days in November and I still have plenty room to book Christmas and anything that comes up.

    9. Fishsticks*

      Thanks so much for comments! I just wanted to make sure it seemed reasonable from an outside perspective since the company is so small and I can’t compare myself to anyone for stuff like this.

    10. LKW*

      I get about 5 weeks of personal time per year – which is a lot. If you’re in this range, when you start adding it up – you’re fine. If you’re over, it might be worthwhile to consider if you’re taking advantage. If you’re very under – then take some damn time for yourself.

      1. Jady*

        I think 5 weeks is pretty high. OP is just out of college. OP wouldn’t typically get that much PTO at an average company (in the US).

    12. Jady*

      Up to 15 days of total absences is reasonable for your average office job (10 days vacation, 5 sick leave). If you go over 15, it’d be best to talk to your boss.

      Since he seems so casual about time tracking, I wouldn’t be concerned until it’s over 15.

    13. LilySparrow*

      It sounds like you took about 10 days in your first 12 months, but you waited till you’d been there 6 months to take a whole week. That sounds reasonable. Most places I’ve worked gave 5-10 days PTO the first year, then it went up to 15 days after you’d been there a few years.

      I worked one place where you got 10 days PTO the first year, but it accrued. IIRC, it was no PTO for 6 months, then you got 40 hours, and added 8 hours at a time until you got to 80 hours.

      Assuming your “calendar” starts over on your hire anniversary, your planned time off for July and November would be in your second year.

    14. yep*

      Since it’s such a small company I’d go to your boss and just say “hey this is what I’m thinking for vacations this year.” It might be he wants the same Friday in July off and would rather you be there to keep the place open. My fiance works for a SUPER small tech company (I think there’s 7 employees total?) and basically as long SOMEONE is around to keep the place operating and your work is getting done, they don’t really track days off.

    15. MeM*

      Large corporations that I’ve worked for, and govt positions, seem to give ~10 to 13 days of paid holidays a year. Large corps I’ve worked for have seemed to add in addition to the holidays 80 hrs/yr for 10 yrs service or less, 120 hrs at 15 years service and 160 at 20 years of service and staying there. Govt jobs often have annual leave that accrues at the rate of 4 hrs every two weeks for less than 3 years of service, 6 hrs every two weeks for 3 to 15 years of service, and 8 hrs every two weeks for more than 15 years of service.

  32. Bend & Snap*

    After 2 1/2 of post merger hell and a 9-month interview process, I finally nailed down a new job! Remote work, great title, great money, in a subject area I’m really excited about.

    Giving my notice on Monday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  33. Muriel Heslop*

    I am special ed teacher and I’m quitting my job soon because of the paperwork load. It’s just too, too much. Love the kids; endure the parents.

    What should I say to colleagues and other people who respond to news of my leaving with, “Please don’t quit – we need teachers like you!” My only responses so far have been rude or snarky (and I am generally neither.) I really don’t want to get into it with people.

    1. Parenthetically*

      “Thank you so much, what a kind thing to say.” Possibly adding, if appropriate, “I’ll definitely miss working with these kids.” *subject change*

      1. Muriel Heslop*

        “I’ll really miss the kids” is perfect and definitely true. Thank you! I’m so emotional about people telling me to stay in my job that I cannot think straight.

        1. Parenthetically*

          Absolutely. My mother is a now-retired public school teacher who did several years in Special Ed, and I know it’s very much not for the faint of heart.

          I think for the most part what people are really saying is, “You are a good person and your job matters.” I think if you can take it as a compliment and respond accordingly, it’ll short-circuit the ILP/IEP paperwork-related rage spiral. ;)

    2. Julianne (also a teacher)*

      If by any chance you work in a state where teachers have recently or are planning to go on strike, hand them a newspaper clipping about that. Actually, there are probably other published things about the particular challenges of being a sped teacher that you could hand them.

      Anyone who wants to tell us to stay in our jobs who hasn’t dealt with our daily nonsense can go jump in a lake. (I say this as someone not looking to leave the profession, but I have come to realize this year that my original intention of spending my whole career as a classroom teacher was overly optimistic.)

      1. Muriel Heslop*

        Seriously. It’s not my co-workers telling me to stay. People who have been in the classroom know that it’s not for the faint-hearted!

      2. Millennial Lawyer*

        I wouldn’t get into it necessarily with well meaning colleagues/friends trying to pay OP a compliment. (Even though I’d feel like saying, you try it then!!)

        Educators are not paid nearly enough for what they do. I encourage OP and everyone who feels they have to leave to write to their local elected officials.

        1. Julianne*

          Oh, definitely not – honestly, other teachers don’t say this sort of thing, though, so my response was based on the assumption that Muriel was talking about non-teachers saying this sort of thing. When another teacher leaves the profession, teachers around that person who stay might think, “Hmm, not the move I would make,” or “Gosh, we’re losing a great person,” or “WOW, wish I could do the same!” or probably many more things, but I think few of us would seriously say “Don’t quit, we need teachers like you!” I mean, we do need them, but even teachers who love their jobs the majority of the time understand that it is an incredibly challenging job and that for some teachers, moving on is truly the right choice.

      3. ABC123*

        I am feeling the same way and ready to leave elementary education. The timing is right because my husband’s job is forcing a relocation. I am at a loss as to what my School Principal skill set converts to outside of what I currently do. Any ideas for where to begin a job search and skills I may not realize can be put to work in a different environment?

    3. A Teacher*

      I love teaching but the expectations of the profession have become too much.

      That’s what I’d go with and I think most every person in the teaching profession can relate to that.

      Signed,

      A Veteran and Tired Teacher

    5. bookarts*

      As the parent of a special needs student, what should I be doing to make your job easier? I don’t relish the idea of handing my child over to someone who thinks “Ugh” of me.

      1. A Teacher*

        Its not most parents, probably 1 in 10 but in general (and my daughter has an IEP so I get that angle too). The mentality in education is that we should do more with less in so many ways its disgusting. I teach healthcare, vocational education and dual credit. In one course I threw the books out because they were from 1998 and falling apart. The year I taught sociology, the books were at least 10 years old and dated. I ask kids to have pen and paper and yet will have kids coming in with the expectation that I am to provide the supplies they need all the time. Parents that get upset when I don’t take really late work or when I can’t make their child’s grade go up from a “F” and I’m willing to give more extra credit because it is more work for me when they chose to not do the work in the first place. Parents that don’t believe the teacher–most teachers (yes, some are terrible, hello any profession) do not want to waste the time to write up a kid its yet more paperwork and time. The “well I just needed to get your side of the story” mentality all the time. Lack of respect for my classroom–and its not bad compared to some of the video I saw online–but kids leaving trash or breaking computers, its a real thing. I had 4 laptops that had to be repaired this year because a few kids stuck paperclips in the ethernet ports. Parents were angry because I wouldn’t allow them to use my laptop cart for quite a while.

        On top of parents, its the endless mandates or changes that are detrimental to students. In my district, unless its dual credit (which I teach) we are required to give 40% minimum for a grade. So you can sit and breathe, or heck not come to school and the worst grade I can give is a 40%. Next year they are talking about requiring teachers to give retakes if kids don’t get the grade they want on tests and assignments. They fail to think about how much more time this takes and on why it impacts the child negatively. Most of you can’t have a “retake” of your job and if you don’t turn in a product or do your job, your boss probably has a problem with that. I love my job but some of the things coming about–its just not okay.

        1. Jennifer*

          Heck, some student now has Blake Shelton’s textbook from 30+ years ago in an article on Vox.

      2. urban teacher*

        I , for the most part, never say “Ugh” about a parent. The few times I have is because a parent is being completely unrealistic about their child. I appreciate the ones who advocate for their child but if your child is in high school and reading at a 2nd grade level, please don’t insist they are going to college and I need to help them.
        Or the opposite, if I suggest that your child can do some chores and attend a program in the community, don’t tell me they are incapable of doing anything.

      3. Jennifer*

        It’s probably not you, but there are always Some People out there in any job who like to make people’s lives difficult.

      4. chi type*

        “…what should I be doing to make your job easier?”
        Seems like you could ask your child’s teacher that, no?

        1. Thursday Next*

          I think it’s worth soliciting feedback here, anonymously, at least as a start. Having several teachers weigh in here could yield some useful information.

        2. bookarts*

          I have done so. That means I have gathered one opinion, and that in a non-anonymous setting. The answers my fellow commentators have given me are useful, and I’m grateful for them. Seems a bystander would take in this scene and refrain from joining in with nothing constructive to add.

      5. Totally Minnie*

        I was in elementary ed for a while, and I come from a family of teachers, but none in sped.

        In my experience, the main reason a teacher might have an “ugh” reaction toward a parent is typically if that parent’s expectations don’t line up with what the teacher is saying. This is true of grades as well as disciplinary actions. If I tell a parent about an incident of bad behavior and the parent refuses to believe my account, it’s an “ugh” moment. If I tell a parent that their child is behind in a certain area and needs extra intervention and the parent responds with accusations of how I must be a horrible teacher if I can’t keep all my students at grade level, it’s definitely and “ugh” moment.

        In most cases, those moments come from a lack of respect for the teacher as both a person and a professional. If you’re communicating with your child’s teacher in a consistently respectful way, you’re probably not one of the parents that sets of the “ugh” reflex.

    6. Thursday Next*

      “I’ll miss teaching, too–I’ve always loved working with children. It’s been a pleasure to see them grow and learn.”

      I think if you could reframe the questions as a compliment, it could be helpful to you. You’re certainly not alone in your frustration with the challenges of teaching in under-resourced schools and dealing with [insert adjective of choice here] parents.

      That said, may I offer you, and all the teachers here–especially special education teachers–my heartfelt appreciation for the work you do? It’s not easy, it’s undercompensated, it’s overbureaucratized, and it’s vitally important. Thank you.

    7. WorkingOnIt*

      I guess take it as a compliment – they’re trying to say you’re great at what you do, or that they can’t imagine the place without you. I’d say something in the region of that’s sweet of you to say but it’s no longer the right job for me, depending on the person you can get detailed if they ask further or just repeat it’s no longer the job for me.

    8. Traveling Teacher*

      “I’ve decided that this is the best move for me right now; maybe I’ll come back when the timing is right.”

      Variations of the good old “It’s not you; it’s me,” breakup phrase were what I said when I left full-time teaching. I still teach, in a way, with what I do now, and people come to me all the time for teaching advice, but full time classroom teaching was taking a huge toll on my health and personal life. I’m much happier now.

      For the record, I say good for you for knowing that you need to step down from this role.

  34. Job Searching in Jacksonville*

    So, I have two trips planned for this summer. As my name implies I am job searching, so I am trying to figure out if/when I need to bring these trips up to my potential employer and I dont anticipate getting PTO to cover the time, just unpaid time off. One of these trips is for the first week of July and the other is a week centered over labor day weekend. When I get a job offer I know i need to bring up any trips I am planning to take, but should I bring up both at the offer stage or should I try to just pick one and focus on only getting the approval for that one? In my dream world I would have a new job by the end of this month but it could be more likely to take another month or two past that, so the July date might not even be an issue and I would only need to bring up the labor day trip. But if I were to get a job offer by the end of the month, what would you suggest? Should I bring up both or just pick one and cancel the other or do something else?

    1. Schnoodle*

      Both of these are around holidays, so I’d be careful. The new hire getting the days off around a holiday won’t be your best first impression.

      That said, maybe focus on the most important trip and just ask if it would be okay to go unpaid those days. I have done this at two jobs where I had a european trip planned (family there) and it always went over well. Either I went in the hold on PTO or it was unpaid.

      1. Yorick*

        Ask for both times off but think about which one you’d prefer if they don’t seem willing to give both.

    2. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Absolutely bring up both at the offer stage. Companies know that people come into new jobs with pre-planned vacation time and are usually pretty reasonable and accommodating about them.

      1. zora*

        This. I’ve done it before in a pretty low level job and it was fine.
        After I received the offer, I responded “I have some trips already planned for [dates]. I’m hoping that won’t be a problem.”

        They MIGHT respond that some of them won’t work, so think ahead of time if there is a negotiation which are most important and which you’d be willing to cancel if needed. But it’s very likely it won’t be an issue at all.

  35. baconeggandcheeseplease*

    I’ve been searching the archives, and I haven’t really found that much on job searching in a different city aside from Alison’s US News article and a few other random tidbits. Does anyone know of any good posts I might have missed from years ago? I’m moving from NYC to Chi in August, so any/all long distance job searching tips would be helpful!

    I’m mostly worried about navigating interviews from afar (logistics about trying to do video interviews without having to take off a ton of half days, etc) and if employers will be put off by me not being able to start until August when I’m applying now.

      1. baconeggandcheeseplease*

        I think I have read those, but I’ll re-read just in case I missed something in the comments. Thanks!

  36. Anonymous Person*

    Finally after months of searching I got a call from one of my references with promising information. I never take calls about my job search in my office because the walls are thin and we are required to leave our doors open, but today for the first time I closed my door and took a call in my office; my boss is out of town and I’m so, so tired of finding places to hide and hoping people will be there when I call them back.

    So of course when I opened my office door, there was the boss. I have no idea how much of my side of the conversation he heard.

    Do I play it cool and never mention it? Assume he already knows I’m looking based on all the time I take off for “appointments” that are really interviews?

    I hope I get an offer soon!

    1. Jennifer*

      I wouldn’t mention it. Think of some excuse like you are dealing with family drama or medical issue that you need some quiet/privacy to deal with if asked.

      1. Me--Blargh*

        I’d just say “I needed a little bit of privacy for this call” and leave it at that.

  37. ??*

    I have a performance review coming up. My reviews have generally been excellent, but I was out on FMLA for a while (prior to this review period) and still feel like I’m working at 75% capacity. I may be over-worrying (that has not been reflected in my performance reviews since I returned) but our office is heavily overburdened right now, and I’ve been concerned about whether I’m pulling my weight. Is that a legit thing to ask about? Or does it make me sound unprofessional/over-anxious, given that my reviews haven’t indicated a concern? I’m not sure I could realistically do more than I am right now, either, which also makes me hesitant about raising the question. But perhaps there is something I could work towards as I get healthier over time.

    1. Science!*

      I had my performance review in February, for my 2017 year – which involved 4 weeks of medical bedrest then 8 weeks of maternity leave, then a month after I came back my dad passed away and I had to leave to manage the funeral.

      I was honest and upfront that I struggled coming back from all that and recognized that my productivity was lower than I had hoped, but then I entered into what I hoped to accomplish this coming year and what my goals were. I think it worked well for me, though I’ll admit I didn’t look at how he rated me because I’d already decided to apply to an internal position (which I was also upfront about and my boss though would be a better fit for me as well).

    2. Bea*

      They will most likely tread lightly and unless something has really dropped drastically accept that being on FLMA leave means that you’re going to need time to reacclimate to returning! Unless they’re scummy without any empathy and humanity.

      I would let them know it’s on your radar and you’re working on getting back into the groove. I am candid and open with my bosses and it’s never bit me except once and that guy was indeed scum.

    3. Bend & Snap*

      This has been me since September due to illness.

      Not only did I get a glowing performance review, my boss praised me in the review for the handoff of work, effective expectation setting when I was out or could not be very responsive, and otherwise didn’t mention the issues at all.

      So I wouldn’t worry too, too much. You are protected and it sounds like you’ve been communicating about what you can and can’t handle.

  38. all aboard the anon train*

    Has anyone left a relatively stable corporate job for a startup?

    I’m in a final round of a startup interview. It’s one that’s run and founded by women so there’s no huge sense of bro culture, but they’re in the seeking funding stage and rolling out their first batch of product (they’re e-commerce), and I’m nervous about the company going under within a few months if they don’t raise more revenue or if they lose all their original backers (they funded the first time through crowdfunding).

    I have a corporate job that pays ok (the startup is a $30K raise) and I can come and go as I please and work from home whenever I want, but I’m so bored and there’s no room for growth or promotion. I know startups are a big risk, but does anyone have any insight on moving from corporate to startups? Pros/cons? Why you did it/regretted it?

    1. D. Llama*

      There’s a lot of uncertainty here. If they go belly-up in six months, what’s your plan?

    2. Irene Adler*

      Pros: get to be in on the ground floor. Exciting!

      Will advance quickly as the start-up grows. So you’ll be “in charge” of the dept. So you can have a big voice in whomever gets hired in your dept (and maybe other depts. too!). Might ask about who funds any add’l education you might need to fully handle new job positions/tasks you are promoted into. You’ll end up doing and learning a lot about other positions and job tasks. Job roles less rigidly defined. Get to be a part of establishing company culture. So ask about things like work from home or flex time or bringing dog to work days or Thursday happy hours. Start-ups tend to be looser regarding these things.

      Cons: no regular salary increases (so procure as high a salary up front that you can)-regardless of what they tell you up front. When money is tight everything is on the table. Might go years w/o any change to salary (yep, not even cost of living). Might be promoted w/o any change in pay. Benefits might be few or terminated down the line due to cost-cutting. You might have to pay for a portion of what benefits you do enjoy.
      Yeah, possible layoffs. Funds get tight at times so even stationery supplies can get scarce. Money/funding is always a topic folks talk about. Always.
      Job role less rigidly defined- my boss is VP of R&D and Quality And he’s our IT guy.

      1. Dzhymm*

        Advancing as the company grows is not guaranteed. Most startups do not grow organically into large operations; they either quietly fizzle out or are acquired by larger entities. This means that if you start as the teapot painter for StartupCo, it’s much more likely that you’ll be Teapot Decorator Third Class when StartupCo is bought by MegaCorp than it is for you to become VP of Hot Beverage Containers when StartupCO IPOs.

        As for salary… not only are salary *increases* not guaranteed… salary isn’t either. When money gets tight be prepared for payless paydays along with a litany of promises and excuses to string you along and keep you working.

        1. Optimistic Prime*

          My MegaCorp has bought a couple of StartupCo.s in the time since I’ve been here and I’ve seen it go both ways. Often the people who got in on the ground floor stick around and have high-level positions in the new division; sometimes they don’t. You’ll almost always have less autonomy though, regardless of the title and pay.

      2. all aboard the anon train*

        They’re in a wework office right now (the company is based on the west coast and they’re opening an east coast office for the tech/PM team).

        I think I would be okay without a change in salary for a few years since the $30K raise from my current salary finally puts me in the position where half my month’s pay covers all my bills/utilities.

        My concern is that they said they have an angel investor and a product runway of a few quarters, but they’re spending the next year focusing on refining the product rather than generating revenue streams. They rolled out their product too quickly and the crowdfunding customers are complaining that is has some issues. I kept pushing about stability and funding, and they said they couldn’t promise anything beyond 12 months.

        I know even corporate jobs aren’t guaranteed, but I think jumping to a startup is riskier because at least my very large corporate company (as past situations have shown) would still take forever to cut out any business units or jobs that need to be eliminated.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Since start-ups can be so risky, if it were me, I’d take that $30,000 raise and treat it as if I’d never seen it. I’d toss it directly into savings/retirement and not alter my lifestyle.

    4. Bea*

      I’m pro start ups and adventures.

      My cautions are your stability, can you afford to have them fold and be unemployed for awhile? Are they paying you via payroll or trying to pull a contractors scam? How well do you get along with the founders and do you know much of them at all? It’s an intimate setting, how do they manage and flex power?

      If you’re comfortable with some uncertainty and not pay check to pay check, the adventure is worth it. You can go back to the corporate world one day. You usually aren’t suddenly at a disadvantage for trying a job out and not having it turn into your life long endeavor.

      The folks here are conservative about start ups but I’m a liberal PNW business enthusiast. So dig down deep and follow your heart.

      1. Optimistic Prime*

        I live in the PNW as well and I’ve seen people jump from corporate to startup to corporate so often I’m like hey, why not?! I would’ve never thought that before moving out here.

    5. Jady*

      My husband left a steady job he disliked for a startup that did end up going under after about a year.

      Pros were good pay, decent benefits, lots of flexibility, the ‘bro-‘ culture which he enjoyed, being able to get his feed wet in multiple different job responsibilities, overall less scrutiny and formal processes and red tape. And although the job didn’t last, he believed that since he was one of the first handful of employees (and getting a ton of positive feedback and experience) , it put him in a prime position to be promoted rapidly as they grew.

      The down side was, of course, the risk factor. They did go under, after all. However, I will note that for us – it wasn’t a significant concern because we were financially stable even if he lost the job.

      He loved it and would do it again.

      On the flip side, some of the pros for him could be cons for other people. There can be an expectation of longer hours and passion for the job. You’re expected to do things outside of your typical job, you may be doing the work of 2 or more people. You may be doing a lot of work that you do not enjoy. If finances are stressed, it may create a lot of anxiety about the company going under.

      Also if they are under 50 employees (I think that’s the number?), a lot of laws don’t apply to them (US). I think FMLA is one of them.

      You definitely need to have a Plan B for if the job goes under. Personally I wouldn’t advise it if your finances are strained significantly.

      1. Bea*

        50 employees is for FLMA. But 1 employee falls under OSHA and 5 employees for Fair Wage, 20 for Age Discrimination. The numbers vary drastically, 50 isn’t the magic number for employment laws :)

      2. all aboard the anon train*

        The risk factor is my biggest issue because it’s just me in my household. I have some medical issues I know I’ll need to pay for in the future and while the $30K salary raise would help me pay for them, losing a job would leave me in a big bind.

        I think what you said about finances causing the anxiety is where I’m hung up. I do think the product has potential and I like the company and that the executive board and founders are really diverse (so many different types of women). My finances aren’t strained and I can pay my rent and bills and chip away at debt, but I think I’m always going to worry about money. The anxiety that comes from remembering what it’s like to live and grow up without much money.

        I honestly just don’t know what that Plan B would look like tbh.

        1. Product person*

          I left corporate jobs for startups, and was the victim of a layoff or jumped ship as soon as I saw early signs (luckily finding another job right before all my former colleagues were laid off).

          It can be a fascinating experience, but without a spouse with healthcare coverage, I’d strongly recommend staying or looking for another job at a company that is past product-market fit. The statistics of startup survival as dismal, and in your situation I wouldn’t risk it.

          1. all aboard the anon train*

            I mean, I’d have healthcare coverage at the startup, and if I ever got laid off from my corporate job, I’d be in the same bind in terms of no healthcare. It’s more the money to cover anything that might crop up health wise if I lose a job, but I know that’s an issue I face regardless of the type of company it is. I’m never going to have a spouse with healthcare coverage, so.

    6. Anon Passenger on the Anon Train*

      I did! And I lost that job in less than a year when it went belly up and I have no regrets. I was working for a big player in e-commerce and had just lost all enthusiasm for the job. I was coasting after returning from a long vacation and I didn’t know how to get back into things when I heard from a former co-worker about the start-up. Part of it was great. I got to learn a shiny new technology working with people I admired and for a company that had a better mission than my e-com job. Unfortunately, the company was trying to do too many things at once and they didn’t get second round funding and became the local poster child for dot com excess goes bust. They might have succeeded if they had cut the business down to one core focus, but the founders had that go big or go home mentality and so we all went home…and learned they hadn’t paid the health insurance, taxes or 401K allocations. They eventually did, but it was very messy.

      I’m concerned about that 30k change in salary. If you’re going to be a contractor, you’re not getting a raise, you’re paying for your own benefits. Can you afford a short-term position on your record or will it look like more job hopping? And you really need a plan B. I was married when I joined my start-up. And I’ve worked for a variety of start-ups and small businesses for most of my career. It’s given me interesting work and a good variety of skills but it hasn’t been as financially rewarding.

      All start-ups have dreamers, but they also need do-ers. Are there enough do-ers in your start-up and how do you feel about being one? It’s a higher level of commitment to a job when you’re making a dream happen. I like that they’re focusing on improving the product, but how do they think that will bring them new customers? And what’s their long-term goal? Do they want to run the business or sell it and when?

      If you take the job, keep an eye out for changes. If little perks, like newspapers in the break room start disappearing, start looking. Same for if they start paying bills later. Check your 401K regularly to make sure your account is up-to-date. Keep enough in your checking account to act as a buffer against bounced paychecks. (Better yet, direct deposit into savings and transfer just enough into checking to pay your bills…it’s a great way to build savings fast.) Keep a good eye on your expense reimbursements and get an advance for any trips that will require a lot of money out of pocket. Some of my co-workers lost thousands in unpaid reimbursements. I’m not saying don’t do it…just look hard before you leap. But it could be that this start-up would better serve you as encouragement to find a different job that is both rewarding and stable.

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        I’m wouldn’t be a contractor. It’s a $30K raise as a full-time salaried employee with healthcare and a 401K, so that $30K does make a big difference. I’ve been at my other roles for 3 – 5 years each, so a short stay won’t really look bad on my resume. The office is a co-working space or remote three to four days a week.

        I guess I just really don’t know what a plan B would look like. I’ve never had one for any job aside from funneling away money in a savings account in case I get laid off.

        I think my pros are the higher salary and the chance to get more e-commerce experience which is way more valuable than anything I have now. Unfortunately, most of the more stable corporate jobs are looking for the type of experience I can’t get at my current company, but a startup offers.

        1. Peggy*

          How in-demand are your skills? If you’re laid off or your startup goes under, are there other jobs in your area that you’re qualified for?

          Losing a start-up job isn’t the end of the world, if the jobs in your field aren’t scarce where you live. You can spin the story: “I was ready for a change and took an amazing opportunity at XYZ, which was a crash course in A, B, and C and allowed for some incredible personal and professional growth. While ultimately the company (if it folded) or role (if you got laid off) didn’t have staying power, I don’t regret a thing because I was able to do D, E, and F during my time there. I gained some very valuable experience and skills, and now I’m seeking this role which is a good fit for [reasons].”

          I recommend negotiating severance as part of your package before accepting an offer. If laid off within one year, maybe 1-2 months of pay and benefits. Not sure what the norm is for your industry but it’s something you can ask for and is pretty normal for a startup negotiation.

          I think the extra pay and experience are worth the risk, as long as a layoff wouldn’t leave you jobless for a long period of time due to a lack of relevant jobs in your area. Pay down your debt but don’t throw every penny at it – build yourself an emergency fund so you can pay for 6 months of living expenses if you’re out of a job.

          Good luck!

  39. Social anxiety at work*

    Hey ya’ll! I’m struggling with low-key social anxiety & imposter syndrome at work. I’m a mid-career professional, and have been able to keep a handle on it thus far but I’ve been asked to take on more of a leadership role (which involves leading meetings with higher-level team leadership, forming strategy and aligning teams on responsibilities). It’s stressing me out!

    I know that I can do these things (and do them well), but every time I have an upcoming meeting that I need to lead or presentation I need to give (even to small groups of 2-3) I shut down and find it hard to get any other work done the week before because I’m constantly worrying about it. How can I get over this? Help!!

    1. Parenthetically*

      Things that help me:

      Decide when you’re “done” preparing — either when you feel 85% prepared, or when you can check off Tangible Markers of Preparedness A, B, and C (I’ve gone over the presentation twice, my notes and materials are all in a file, I’ve booked the conference room, and I’ve taken five really slow, deep breaths, or whatever is relevant to you).

      Actively seek feedback — choose a couple of trusted coworkers and ask them in advance of the meeting/presentation to be on the lookout for things you could do better and things they feel like you’ve got down. Ask them to shoot you a bullet point email afterwards.

      Force yourself to reflect on things that went well in every meeting or presentation. Sit down and write it out. “Meeting room was booked correctly. Didn’t have spinach in teeth or zipper down. Spoke clearly. Communicated the goals of the meeting. Survived entire meeting with no deer-in-headlights looks from coworkers.” Etc.

      Don’t just ask “what if,” ANSWER “what if.” “What if I bomb the presentation and nobody understands anything?” “Well, that’s not likely because I’ve prepared X, Y, and Z and I’ve done it a few times before, but it’ll be ok because I’ll follow up with the attendees and clarify.”

      Basically, anything that allows you to get outside perspective and be a little more objective about your performance is GOOD. Impostor Syndrome is emotional, not factual, so I find if I can use it as a tool to force myself to seek and acknowledge facts, it really lessens my emotional entanglement with “success.”

    2. einahpets*

      I can definitely relate! I’m also mid-career and just started a new / slightly higher title role with bigger responsibilities. I am good at the technical stuff in my field, but this job is much more project management than I’ve done and sometimes I definitely get myself in a worry-loop that I am going to be found out for the imposter I think I am.

      What has worked for me in the last few years is finding a few contacts/informal mentors that are a bit further along in their career. They’ve been great at giving me the confidence boost when I am not sure I can do it or have a situation that is giving me a lot of anxiety.

      On starting those relationships — it was so so hard the first time to send the first email or text to each person, especially with my own social anxiety that has me convinced that everyone would just be annoyed/uninterested, but it hasn’t really worked out that way yet. If anything, now some of the contacts have even started messaging me with their own questions about ‘what would you do here?’ which gave me a bit of a boost of confidence to realize that others see my experience and opinions as valid.

      1. Social anxiety at work*

        This is really helpful (and knowing that other successful folks also struggle with similar things is comforting, in a way). Thank you so much!

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      If you’re not seeing a therapist about this, you may want too. Mine has been incredibly helpful.

      Beyond that I think Parenthetically had some great tips. One of the things I do is make a massive check list of all the things I need to do to prepare, including time for review. When I have completed the checklist, I am done.

      1. Social anxiety at work*

        Yeah… I’ve always told myself that it’s not “bad enough” for me to see a therapist but I’ve definitely just been pushing the problem aside and ignoring it :/

        It’s good to hear that you’ve found therapy helpful. I think I’m ready to bite the bullet and try it out… I’m so tired of feeling this way.

      2. Social anxiety at work*

        Yeah… I’ve always told myself that I don’t have it “bad enough” to warrant therapy, but I’ve definitely just been pushing the problem aside and ignoring it.

        I’m glad to hear that you’ve found therapy to be helpful. I think I’m ready to bite the bullet and try it out… I’m so tired of feeling this way :/

        1. AnotherLibrarian*

          It took a lot of phone calls until I found mine, but she has genuinely helped me transform my own social anxiety. It has been so helpful.

        2. AnonJ*

          You might also consider a professional business coach type of person. My company engaged one for our newly formed leadership team and while I was initially suspicious, she turned out to be incredibly effective in helping us both individually and as a team. As a team we’ve worked on how we run our meetings, brainstorm/work through issues, make decisions, and present information and ideas. On an individual level she’s helped me with how I prepare for and lead meetings, present my ideas in an effective and confident manner, solicit and receive feedback, and truly be a leader who is aware and engaged with what is going on around me. Having worked with her for over a year now on the company’s dime, I could definitely see myself personally engaging with someone like her if my company wasn’t willing to do it. I went all in with utilizing her as a resource once I got over my initial skepticism, and I’ve got so much out of it and improved my leadership skills so much I just got promoted from Operations Manager to VP of Operations!

  40. KR*

    Dear Commute OP in LA from earlier this week,
    I heard the traffic report on NPR today about how backed up LA is rn. I’m sorry and hope you make it to work soon.

  41. JJJJShabado*

    Background: There was a User Group for the Software I work with in my area in the past. My supervisor had a big hand in it, but over time it stopped meeting/doing things. Someone is starting it back up again and sent an e-mail to my supervisor to ask if she was interested. She past it around to our department and I expressed interest. I had an e-mail exchange with the organizer and he seems to think that I have more interest in it than I actually do (organizing, being an officer, etc). I’m backing out of this because I don’t have much more interest than correspondence/occasional meetings.

    My question is that as part of our correspondence, he asked if I had any contacts. I replied no, but there was a day at a local college where there were presentations about the software and gave him the name of the professor. He wants me to contact the professor (I think I’m going to push that back to the organizer, since I never spoke with the professor). Can I suggest that he ask the professor to pass along about the User Group to the people who attended the presentation if there some kind of mailing list? Judging by me (since I’d presumably get that e-mail), I would not be annoyed if I got an e-mail about the User Group.

    1. Forking Great Username*

      For privacy reasons, I would be very surprised if they’ll give you names and contact info of the people who attended the event.

    2. valentine*

      This person seems so pushy, why not stop doing their admin/sales and return to the participant side?

  42. Moonlight Doughnut*

    Calling fellow archivists!: One of the jobs that I’m applying for has a (required) open-ended question that states: “Please share an online location where we can see one or more finding aids that you prepared.” However all of the archives I’ve worked with have been internal-use-only or else super-small, and none of them have my finding aids published online. Help!: Should I write that none of my finding aid are published on the internet and offer to send some via email OR use a dropbox/googledocs link (which seems like it would look weird/unofficial).

    Also–has expecting this become standard in our field? If so it seems to greatly disadvantage archivists who work with small (non-tech-savvy) archives and those who work with restricted or otherwise non-public collections…

    1. GigglyPuff*

      I think you’d be fine with explaining, maybe in the bottom of the cover letter and the email (if you are emailing your application in), and if you’re able attach a PDF of one of the finding aids you’ve done.

      1. Moonlight Doughnut*

        Unfortunately, it’s one of those annoying online forms that doesn’t allow for any attachments. :( Otherwise, that would have been ideal.

        1. I think this is the job I'm hiring for*

          I think that there is an opportunity for attachments, possibly only one, somewhere in the application form. If you want to attach multiple documents, just save them all as a single PDF.

    2. LostInTheStacks*

      That answer sounds good! It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation, and I think either “here’s a dropbox link” or “I can follow up via email, let me know which method you prefer” would work. For what it’s worth, I’ve been job searching a lot recently and have never seen that question come up, so I don’t think it’s a new standard.

    3. cwethan*

      I think it has become standard, but I also wouldn’t bat an eye if a candidate said “mine aren’t accessible online due to technology restraints at the institutions I produced them for, but I could email you a PDF.”

      1. cwethan*

        ETA: I mean standard for finding aids to be accessible online. I’ve never been asked to provide one for a job or asked for one while hiring.

        1. Moonlight Doughnut*

          Thanks! Definitely asking about online finding aids in the hiring process specifically!

    4. I think this is the job I'm hiring for*

      Write a note in the box that your finding aids have been internal-use-only and say that you will bring a hard copy to the interview.

      1. I think this is the job I'm hiring for*

        Yes, this is definitely the job I’m hiring for. There are two reasons for the question: 1. to see if the applicant can follow directions (i.e., didn’t just cut and paste from their resume) and 2. to get a sense of the applicant’s experience with finding aids, because this is an area we’re trying to improve in. Failure to follow directions is disqualifying in my mind; if you don’t have a URL to share but explain why, I’ll just want to talk to you more when we meet.

        PLEASE apply and don’t be discouraged by the question. Government HR processes are annoyingly bureaucratic for both the employer and the applicant!

        1. Moonlight Doughnut*

          What a small world! Thanks so much for your insight and encouragement! I’m definitely still going to apply as it sounds like a great position and in line with my experience. It’s my first time applying through this particular online gov system, so I’m definitely a little nervous about making sure all the correct information ends up in the right place.

      2. I think this is the job I'm hiring for*

        AND! Don’t worry about the fact that I’ve seen you asking this question here. If anything, I’ll give you props for reading AAM :-) You might need to change your username if I hire you and you want to complain about work, but that’s why I’m not using my regular username for these comments :-)

            1. I am Moana*

              You know we’re going to need an update after the interview, right? ☺️ It’s the meet cute of AAM.

          3. Not So NewReader*

            This is really great for the both of you.
            You both read AAM so now you know something about each other’s commitment to professionalism.

    5. bb-great*

      I would just give a quick explanation and use dropbox or google docs so they have what they need without taking an extra step.

      I haven’t seen this elsewhere, but I don’t think it’s particularly unusual for jobs in general to ask for work samples. I do agree that working for a “non-tech-savvy” archives can hurt you in that it limits what skills you can develop on the job. But it’s also pretty reasonable that if you’re hiring for a role that requires knowing how to use EAD, you hire someone who can do that, you know?

  43. TempToHire Desire*

    What’s the best way to move from “temp” to “employee”? I’m in my first week of a new temp position, and I’ve decided I really like the company and would enjoy full-time employment here. This temp position has an end date three months from now. My team of 25 people are mostly students happy to have a good paying job in between semesters. The team will be disband (laid off) no later than June 30. Knowing that, I’d like to position myself and prove myself so I may seek and achieve full-time employment. Do I need to wait until the end date is here? How do I approach this desire with my (temporary) manager? And what’s the best way to prove myself (since this temp position feels quite different from an actual employment position)? Thanks for all the feedback!

    1. Jennifer*

      Do a good job. Keep an eye out for job openings. Ask if anyone there would be a reference towards the end of the job.

      It’s really going to depend on whether or not an open position is available and if you get along with everyone. I’ve gotten lucky because I was there when someone left, which seems to usually be how it works.

    2. The Original K.*

      Definitely don’t wait until the end date is there. Do good work and look for openings, and let your manager know that you’d be interested in something permanent. Also, I would caution you against stopping your job search if what you’re after is a full-time position, even if you really like the company where you are. It sounds like things are kind of shaky (“no later than June 30” sounds to me like the team could disband sooner than that) and like the position you are in is a straight temp situation rather than a temp to hire, so odds are good that you’ll have to go through the hiring process for a different position at the current company. It’s good to have options.

      If there isn’t an opportunity to stay, get a reference from your manager.

    3. zora*

      You can mention this to your manager at any time! You don’t have to wait for the end date.

      If you have a regular check-in with your manager, that is a good time, or whenever you get a minute in passing. “By the way, I really am loving working here, and I would be very interested in a permanent position if there are any available.” You can also ask her “Is there anything I can do to best position myself for an opportunity here?”

      Also, make sure you are really killing it. Do everything the best you can, make sure everyone knows that you are happy to help. And let your boss know that you are happy to take on any additional tasks that she needs (if you have time). You could even keep an eye out for ways to take initiative that your boss might not have thought to ask about, and then offer those things. Don’t do things without asking, but pointing out something you think you could improve on and about how long you think it would take, can be a huge help to a manager.

    4. Bea*

      The others will start dropping off soon. Do well. Make good internal connections first. Then a couple months in start asking about openings or opportunities to come on permanent.

      I was the last one standing in a group of 10 years ago. They saw my potential just from my showing up and doing the job, the others would flake off or show less desirable behaviours to be trimmed out in multiple ways.

      You need to give it time. A week in, coming off as over eager to stay may be endearing but also they’re like “i dont know you or if you will continue to do a good job…so…” Ease into it.

    5. WorkingOnIt*

      I think do a good job but also be blatant – they’re not going to know you enjoy the job and you’d be interested in staying on if they have permanent jobs unless you tell them. So maybe be there at least a month have a good attitude, do well and then speak to your manager directly say you’re really enjoying working here, you particularly like the company and was wondering if there were opportunities to either extend the temporary contract or join the permanent team. Keep an eye on available vacancies there as well and apply if relevant – or even have questions to the manager about it – you’d seen this great vacancy do they have any recommendations or think that your skills meet the job, you can use this as an opener as well to say you really enjoying working in this team but can’t see any open vacancies at the moment (if true) is this something they’ll likely to have in the future, you’d love to stay on. The squeakiest wheel gets the grease so even if it might not come naturally to you you need to be blatant about your interest early and not just rely on doing a good job and being a great coworker for them to think about asking you to stay. If you start too early before you’ve proved you’re any good/or got a grasp for the role/company then I don’t think it would come off well, but don’t leave it too late.

    6. Thlayli*

      Definitely let your manager know you’d be interested in any full-time position, and make sure you do the best job possible.

      But it really does depend on whether there is any openings. If there’s no permanent job, there’s no permanent job.

      1. zora*

        But if there isn’t a position when your temp job is up, keep in touch with your manager! I’ve had more than one situation where I did a short term temp gig and they liked me so much, that when they had a temp-to-perm spot open months later my former manager asked for me specifically. Keep it light and networky: maybe send an email every couple of months asking how things are going and giving an update on your life. Having the insider view of a company is huge, so make sure you stay connected, you might still get a job there in the future!

    7. WillowSunstar*

      The way I did it, I did a good job and impressed the right manager. Also, it was partly luck, because the opening had been offered to someone else and she turned it down. Since I’d already been temping for a long period of time, I jumped at it.

  44. Anon here hi*

    At my work, they are very social and extroverted. I’m more introverted and have a mean resting face, which I can’t help. It doesn’t mean I’m upset, I just look it. I’m newer, which doesn’t help either. People seem to avoid me- I have to force myself to smile because one woman looked like she wanted to jump in the trash bin just to get away from me. I’ve heard them talking about me too. I feel sad and angry because others don’t smile yet it’s okay for them. Why the double standard?

    Has anyone here ever experienced that? What do you do?

      1. Ainomiaka*

        This is good. Pick some specific social things that you are okay with doing and make an effort to do them more. You don’t have to be everything all the time, but doing some social niceties on your own terms helps dispel the “never talks” illusion.

    2. Jennifer*

      I hate to say it, but smile, smile, smile. People get hostile to “resting face” so bad these days. Some things are okay for others that will not be okay for you, especially if you already have a bad reputation and it sounds like you do. You may have to be overly perky and friendly and happy to compensate.

    3. Millennial Lawyer*

      Being introverted isn’t an excuse to not be cordial with your colleagues – it sounds like they are getting an impression that’s way more off putting that just being introverted. Say hello/good morning when you see people in the halls. Actually smile when you do this. It shouldn’t feel forced to merely be cordial. Has nothing to do with your face when its resting.

    4. AnotherJill*

      A good strategy ion this situation is to once in a while ask someone a question or two about themselves. Even just a “hi, do anything interesting this weekend?” on Monday. For most people. if you show a little casual interest, you’ll successfully navigate the extrovert/introvert gap.

      2. mediumofballpoint*

        This is a good strategy. And compliments are great quick conversation starters. I like your scarf –> where’d you get it –> looks great –> awesome, social interaction checked off for the day!

    5. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      Bribery. Any chance you could bring in bagels, coffee, or have a candy dish. If you can stand a bit of self-depreciating humor maybe put up a sign or send out an email that you realize that you have a terminal case of RBF but you really don’t bite and and to prove your not going to eat them, you’ve brought a treat to share. Then continue on not smiling because an insincere or forced smile is way creepier than RBF in my experience.

      1. LKW*

        THIS. Bring in donuts. Put a big note on it that it’s from you so that everyone has a nice day.

    6. Aunt Betty*

      I have RBF, too and I get amazing results when I consciously put a pleasant look on my face. That’s something that is entirely in your control and easy to do with a little effort.

      Also, make general chitchat in the break room or ask your coworker’s opinions on things related to the job. People love to give advice! You need to look for ways to provide social lubrication to leave people with a positive impression of you.

    7. WorkingOnIt*

      I read in this book – How to be yourself – (which is about social anxiety) that if people are shy/anxious in social situations they should give themselves a ‘role’ to be able to sort of interact with people better. For instance I don’t know you could give yourself the ‘role’ of making coffee for people (not all day – but like once a day) it’ll come across as friendly, takes minimal interaction and you can build on it everyday or maybe someone will come along to help you, similarly you can say I’m picking up lunch/coffee does anyone need anything picked up/want to come along. You might build a rapport that way. Or maybe there are particular papers that need taking to HR regularly and you offer to take them for people…. It can be something small that will build up a general rapport –
      If someone looks off at your face again – just be like sorry this is what I look like when I’m concentrating!

    8. Thlayli*

      You can exercise your facial muscles to make your resting face more pleasant, if that’s something you would Be interested in. If you want me to post more info let me know – I won’t unless you actually are interested.

      Otherwise, as others have said, be pleasant and cordial. Even if you don’t like people it’s rude to just plain ignore them. Manners cost nothing.

    9. Former Retail Manager*

      I do experience that…fellow RBF sufferer here. Botox and fillers are on the horizon…..seriously. I don’t think mine is as bad as yours, but people who don’t know me often assume I am upset/angry if I have no expression because that’s just my face.

      But seriously, the suggestions of others are great. Bring donuts or cupcakes, make an effort to say hello in a cheerful voice to as many people as you can, and just casually chat for a bit when you can with as many people as you can. Since you’re new and opposite of most of your co-workers, sounds like they’re forming their opinion of you based on what they’ve seen and experienced thus far, so if you don’t want that impression to stick, do as much as you can to change it as quickly as you can. I have personally even made jokes about RBF to some people who then laughed with me and admitted that they didn’t speak to me before because they thought I was mad or intently concentrating. Nope…..just these darn depressor anguli oris muscles.

  45. Lady in New York*

    I have to give my boss my 2 weeks notice today. I was offered a position at a company I used to work for (same job actually and coolest boss!). Current boss will pitch a fit and be so upset.

    Any tips on staying stern and strong when I resign? He is very needy and dependent on me. He will ask so many questions and combat my questions. He will ask for more than 2 weeks and I don’t want to stay more than 2 weeks, it’s a weird time period and not necessary for my position. He will be very against my resignation and be vocal about it (not in an abusive way, I hope, just in a “trying to change my mind” and “no you can’t do this to me” type of way). Resignations are awkward without someone making them more awkward and I would just rather he ask the normal questions and accept it as is but that isn’t how it’s going to be.

    1. CBE*

      “My decision is made, my last day is X. What should I focus on in the meantime?”
      “It’s not up for debate. How ’bout those (Sports team)?”
      “My reasons are my own. I’m not putting them up for debate. Did you want me to write up some info for my replacement?”

      Etc. Etc. Repeat as necessary. You don’t have to answer his questions or engage in debate or negotiation.

    2. CatCat*

      Give as little information as possible. If he asks for more than 2 weeks, no matter how many times he asks, “No, I can’t, sorry!” Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

      Give limited, vague answers to questions. If they get too personal, “Oh, that’s too personal for me to share.” If he gets super annoying about it, “My decision is not up for debate. Now here’s what I was thinking I should do to transition X work task. Does that sound like a good plan for X?”

      Just become a broken record on refusing to answer detailed questions, extend time, or debate (and change the subject on debate). You can also call out. “You keep prying repeating the same questions when I’ve given my answers.Please stop prying and debating me about it.”

    4. Jadelyn*

      Be a broken record. Don’t let him suck you into conversations about why you’re leaving – decide on a really bland answer that can’t be argued with for “why”, like “It’s just time for me to move on.” and repeat ad nauseum.

      1. Lady in New York*

        Excellent idea! I like the no ability to come back with more questions route. Thank you! :)

    5. Bea*

      You can do it! Bite the bullet and get it done. 2 weeks of his insufferable brattiness is the last you’ll deal with until you dance right into your new job!

    6. DDJ*

      You’ve already accepted a position elsewhere. “I’ve accepted a position elsewhere, this is my official notice of two weeks, at which time I will be leaving.” Put it in writing as well, sign it, and give it to him. If you have an HR department, submit a copy to HR as well, indicating that you’ve also given a copy to your boss.

      He can rant all he wants, it’s not going to change your position. Even if your job doesn’t start in two weeks, I agree with “That’s not going to be possible.” I’d leave out the “sorry” because it will make him think he might have more wiggle room than he does. And repeat. “You need to stay on a little while longer!” That’s not going to be possible. “Just an extra two weeks! An even month. It’s not that much to ask.” That’s not going to be possible.

      Figure out what kind of argument or request he could come back with that would be the hardest for you to handle, and just mentally prepare for it. Worst case scenario. Tugging at your heartstrings. Getting personal with it. What’s the lowest, most guilt-tripping thing he could say to you? Get ready for it, just in case.

      As you say, resignations are awkward. I think even accepting that you have a good idea of how this is going to go down is a great mindset to have. “Boss is going to make this awkward. It’s only two weeks. I can handle this for two weeks.”

      1. Lady in New York*

        Awesome ideas and suggestions!! Thank you! It’ll be prob the most awkward resignation I’ve given since his personality is so “interesting.” Wommmmp. lol. Ready to get it done with :)

        1. Bea*

          Type up a letter and say “this is my 2 weeks, my last day will be April X!” and turn to leave. It’s what I did. All you owe them is the 2 week notice not to listen to the crying afterwards!

          Then you can circle back later to ask how you should proceed with your leaving. What procedure documents he’ll want etc. Take control of the big baby:)

    8. valentine*

      I hope this went well. If you ended up offering more than you wanted, you can still go back to your original plan. Try platitudes. Him: But whyyy are you leaving meee?! You: That’s just the way the cookie crumbled.

    9. TootsNYC*

      Be amused.

      I mean, how silly is it, to badger someone who has given their resignation?

      So resign, and then if he starts in, just think, “there he goes again! what a doofus,” and say with a smile, “Boss, I gave notice. You know what that means, right? I’m leaving.”

  46. GigglyPuff*

    Job searching rant: I didn’t get the job out of state, except I was really hopeful because the day after my in person interview, they contacted my references and asked them for letters of recommendation! Which was a really positive sign, except it seems like that might be policy. I felt so bad for my references, even my manager wondered why they asked for letters after learning I didn’t get the job.

    So went out and applied for another one that’s been posted for several months, few days later immediately got an email to do a first interview. Turns out they want to do, not a phone interview, but wants to do a “skype” (different software). Why????

    1. fposte*

      A Skype interview is so much better than a phone interview, though. The flow is easier because you can see somebody on the other end. They’re also pretty common, so I think it’s tough to avoid them entirely.

      1. GigglyPuff*

        Yeah, I mean luckily not too super standard for my industry it seems, but it’s my first, though I did have to do one of those horrible automated video interviews, so after doing that, this should be fine.
        I’m more annoyed at myself that I didn’t really just ask for the phone interview (they indicated they’d be fine with one if there were tech problems), super non-confrontational, since now I have to take time off from work (when I don’t really have the time), whereas before I would’ve just shut myself in my office and counted it as lunch. Plus my laptop is 12+ years old, so the quality of everything is super shotty.

        1. Jadelyn*

          If you’ve got a good phone or tablet, you can use the skype app instead of on your old laptop. Just make sure you’ve got your account set up and logged in and test your connection with a friend or something before it’s time to go.

      2. T3k*

        Ugh, Skype. I had my first Skype interview last month, did not like. I’m not a fan of the tool anyways (I prefer Discord) but it was made even worse as, some reason, it initially didn’t want to pick up the call, no matter how many times I clicked “answer” then, when I got that fixed, didn’t show my video to the interviewer initially. Thankfully when it comes to computer issues I’m pretty savvy at troubleshooting and had it fixed in a couple minutes but jeez, not fun.

        1. Bend & Snap*

          We have Skype at work (they took away Webex and gave us Skype and it BLOWS), but consumer skype is pretty good. I did a few video Skype interviews for the job I just got and it definitely helped to make a connection with the interviewers.

          1. Peggy*

            Skype for Business is hands down the worst product OF ANY KIND I’ve ever been forced to use in my 15 year career. It works approximately 20% of the time and when it does work, it’s not even a good product. I detest it.

    2. HRH The Duke of Coriander and Gomasio*

      I also didn’t get the out of state job after 3 interviews. Good luck with the interview!

    3. Creag an Tuire*

      So hold on, they contacted the references and asked for letters, and then you found out you didn’t get the job?

      Hate to ask this, but how certain are you that one of your references didn’t torpedo you?

      1. GigglyPuff*

        I’m relatively sure none of them did. I’ve used one of them for multiple jobs I’ve gotten, probably the flakiest of the bunch, and my last manager was great and really supportive, and my current manager let me read the letter before they sent it (which I’ll admit it was a little more heavy on stuff I’ve done than actually about me, but it was fine).

        From the wording in one of their emails, the way they phrased it, I’m really leaning heavily towards they asked for letters for all the people that did the final round.

        1. Creag an Tuire*

          Fair enough, then. I agree, that’s a really obnoxious process — not just calling references, but asking for letters? That’s a lot of work to put them through for a meaningless hoop.

          (Then again, I’ve never heard of asking references for letters in the final-hiring stage at all — the only time I’ve needed them is for an application into an internship program. Is this something specific to your industry?)

        2. Yorick*

          They may be great references, but the company may have needed that extra information to make a decision.

    4. Bea*

      We ask for references and letters of rec for the very last stage. If it’s down to two or three, you’re still very close but the other person edged you out.

    5. Sam.*

      I had a first-round skype interview just last week! I’d done second rounds over skype before, but initial screens had always been over the phone. I really did prefer having the visual cues. That said, though, be sure you check over your space ahead of time – background noise, lighting, speaker volume, wifi reliability – and that you test skype out beforehand, as someone else mentioned. You don’t want to be figuring some of that out mid-interview. And if you’re being interviewed by a group of people, be prepared to not be able to see them all. I personally don’t find it distracting, but I know people who do. Good luck!

  47. Science!*

    I applied, interviewed and got an offer for a new job! An internal position, in a different department with a small paybump. Moving out of academic positions is hard, but I think I’m ready. This is a position that I can see myself in for a couple of years, developing a skill set I’m not used to (customer service? My customers are usually my cell cultures!)

    2. Sam.*

      Moving out of academic work can be hard! It took me time to adjust, but I’ve honestly never regretted it. Congrats on the new position, and good luck!

  48. Gone anon for this one*

    Hi all. I’m on a train to a job interview in another city and typing this on my phone, so apologies if this is unclear.

    I have a friend working at my old company, same department. I’m being considered for a new position under my old boss. Problem is this new position would work closely with two teams and I am worried that it’s like the teams are the Sharks and the Jets. There was a clique problem when I was there and based on some offhand remarks by friend and former boss I get the sense the situation is worse, not better.

    So my friend offered to give me some “insider info” on people I’d meet who I don’t know. I thought she meant work styles, etc., but she went into great detail about why she doesn’t like one person on the other team, who I would work closely with. I was taken aback because I was curious about his perspectives on the actual work but the level of vitriol I got instead is very unlike my friend. And what she describes is nothing unusual or egregious. I wish she’d had better judgment than to tell me all this before I meet him for an interview, but it also makes me wonder if this sort of venting is typical for the office.

    I also wonder whether “stay out of any cliques” will be harder if not impossible with a preexisting friend there. A job breaking down work silos is one thing, a job trying to negotiate office cliques is another. Wondering about all this before the in-person interview is also giving me great pause. I’ll ask thoughtful questions and try to get a sense in the interviews for what office culture is like, but if I’m getting warning bells at this stage, is it smart to listen? If the interviews don’t allay my worries should I just cut and run now?

    1. Jennifer*

      Oh lord, this drama doesn’t sound good. I concur that if you have a friend there, you would be in her clique.

      However, I would say it’s better to be in a clique than to not be in any cliques. I have problems here because I’m not in one.

      1. Gone anon for this one*

        Yeah, I can definitely see that. I’d rather have a different job than have to navigate cliques at all, to be honest. I wouldn’t necessarily want to be in a work clique with my friend’s work buddies, and I also don’t want to worry that getting lunch with my friend sometimes puts me in there automatically. Now that I’m done with the interviews, though, I’m feeling slightly better about it, so we’ll see how the situation develops. Sorry your workplace’s cliquishness is causing issues for you, that’s really unfair.

    2. Technical_Kitty*

      You can try the old “be nice to everyone and take no sides” tack. You might have to actively cultivate friends in both groups.

    3. Blue*

      Oof, that does not sound good. On the plus side: you went into this on high alert, knowing you needed to specifically scout out more information re. office culture. You might do some info gathering and decide you can deal with whatever crap is going on or find that your friend has a warped perspective from being there so long, but if what you observe and learn doesn’t significantly assuage your concerns…yeah, I’d cut and run. Fast.

  49. Katniss*

    My office holds a yearly “Spring Cleaning” competition. Usually it just involves wiping down and decluttering your desk, and if you do you get entered into a raffle. The other year I won a nice plant because my desk is always clean anyway.

    This year they’re ramping it up to ridiculous proportions. The CEO will be wandering around deciding who “passes” and who doesn’t. They’re diving us up in to teams to add a peer pressure aspect, and if you don’t fit their requirements, your entire team loses. And the standards of a clean desk are ridiculous: no personal items in your drawers whatsoever and a “maximum of one personal item, such as photos” in your actual cubicle.

    Not looking for advice as my entire team is not going to participate, but I just have to know what kind of thinking leads a company to think this is anything but insulting and demoralizing? What train of thought made someone think this was a great idea?

    1. Jennifer*

      A culture that doesn’t want you to have any personality would think this sounds great.

      Good luck to you and your team, I fear your not participating may cause problems though.

      1. Katniss*

        Luckily my boss and her boss are in agreement on this, so it won’t just be peons saying “no, thanks”.

    2. ThatGirl*

      Hi :)

      your workplace is ridiculous, indeed. There’s no reason for anywhere to be so depersonalized, and especially when you’re not a public-facing office. It just serves to demoralize.

      1. Katniss*

        Seriously! We never have clients here, so it’s got to be that someone higher up has ridiculous standards that they think we’ll all love catering to.

    3. Alice*

      Wait, the CEO is going to be wandering around, opening people’s desk drawers to check for personal items? WTF

      1. Katniss*

        Yeah, if I didn’t fear repercussions I’d fill my drawers with tampons or something else that I’m sure would shock the CEO.

        1. Decima Dewey*

          What about switching out personal items? Fergus fills a drawer full of tampons and a pair of size 4 women’s sneakers. Meanwhile, Lucinda fills a drawer with beard grooming stuff and a ukulele.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Eh, someone ought to put the tampons ON the desk saying that they are on the desk since no personal items are in the drawer and they are allowed one personal item ON the desk.
          /don’t do this. Just thinking out loud.

    4. kbeers0su*

      I feel like this is a situation where one of the higher-ups just “read a great book about how your life can change if only you” and it’s about decluttering and now they’ve taken it to a whole new level. I hate how someone’s obsession can get passed along to their employees like this…

      2. Jadelyn*

        I was just coming to say this. Someone higher-up read a book, or watched a documentary, or took a seminar, and they have the zeal of a new convert so they’re taking it out on everyone around them.

    5. CatCat*

      It’s amazing how someone can take a lowkey little office event with a potential for a fun prize, and turn it into a demoralizing nightmare.

      “Jane had a tampon in her desk drawer so she and all her team are disqualified. Thanks a lot, *Jane.*”

      “Ted had separate photos of his two kids on his desk. Way to ruin it for everyone!”

    6. Bostonian*

      “no personal items in drawers”

      They… search the drawers for cleanliness?

      Holy hell, there’s no way I would be cleaning out the week’s worth of gym clothes and various snacks I keep in my drawers at all times!

      1. Katniss*

        Right? My gym socks and gym underwear live in that bottom drawer. That is their rightful place, and there they shall remain.

    7. zora*

      omg WWHHYYYYYY do people have to take something simple and fun, and decide it’s NOT BIG ENOUGH and then turn it into a complete, competitive nightmare?!?!?!

      Stop. Ruining. Things. ggrrrrrr

    8. PizzaDog*

      Oh cool I didn’t know Ray Holt ran a company.

      This is so weird. Surely the CEO has better ways to spend his time.

    10. WorkingOnIt*

      Urgh I hate this – it’s essentially micromanaging because the CEO is a neat freak or associates cleaniness with organisation. I need papers spread all over my desk and the ability to randomly stack stuff because if I can see them then I know where they are and I don’t know it just works for me. With any of these types of obsessions with tidiness I feel like my personality is under attack. There’s no one way to do anything. Although I’d put away confidential papers etc at the end of the day, and try to straighten up ‘to appear’ correct sometimes I needed those papers just the way I had to them to be able to deal with the same thing the next day. I know it pisses off neat freaks but having my desk micromanaged and tidy being equated with organised/smart makes me feel like I’m being treated like a child with a messy room rather than an adult with a different processing way than you and that pisses me off.

    11. Cowgirlinhiding*

      Play along – on the day he is doing inspections take everything off your desk and out of the drawers (what are those boxes stacked in the corner?) and leave only one pencil and pad of paper. Everything else empty.
      Wait for reaction. Priceless. You should win or not but CEO night get the picture that he took it too far. Once he is gone, everything goes back to normal.

      1. Katniss*

        I am very tempted to do this!

        My coworker was thinking of making one giant collage of pictures, so it would technically be one picture, but on her entire cubicle. Or a giant framed picture of the way her desk used to look.

      2. zora*

        I Totally didn’t think of this. I would actually be willing to do that for one day just to make a point.

        Of course, it would actually suck if I couldn’t find a place to hide my things in the building, because I take the bus and it would not be fun to lug my stuff back and forth.

    12. smoke tree*

      This kind of reminds me of when my old employer would take pictures of messy desks to shame the employees during all-building meetings. They would also take pictures of clean desks as examples of what everyone else should aspire to. Exactly 100 percent of the clean desks were owned by interns.

    13. Not So NewReader*

      I hope you smile a little bit:

      Our store was going to implement handbag searches. We knew it was coming but not when. One day we get the word TODAY is the day. One by one coworkers came over to me. “NSNR, you’re a married woman…” I just told them to put it in my purse. Pretty soon, my purse was packed, they had to really push to get their items in there.

      Everyone else went before me. No problems. Finally it was my turn. My bosses pulled out various pads and tampons, there were several sets of BC, some rolling papers and condoms. They got about half way down and came to the bottle of “love gel”. By then they were BEET RED, they packed everything back in (not sure how) and told me to be prepared for future searches.

      You know, I did not blush at all.

      1. Blue*

        Uhhhhh. What are they even looking for in these searches? That totally deserves epic embarrassment (for them, not you, obviously.)

      2. valentine*

        This was so kind and lovely of you. I want this in a movie, with Sally Field as the new person who kills the policy.

      1. Mephyle*

        And in case it’s not clear, this combines a running gag that started here a month or two ago (“At least it’s not…”) with a topic that was thoroughly discussed this week (the dreadful inappropriateness of workplace weight loss competitions).

    15. valentine*

      I’d be worried they were planning layoffs. If there’s no timeframe, pass all the stuff from desk to desk during the competition. I don’t suppose he’d chortle if everyone put their stuff in his space while he’s doing the rounds.

      1. only acting normal*

        I didn’t think layoffs, but – speaking from experience- I did think they’re planning to move to hotdesking.

    16. WillowSunstar*

      Wait, inside the drawers? But isn’t that the entire reason of drawers? OMG, I keep all my Toastmasters books in a drawer. And at least one feminine product, because we’ve all been there when all of the machines on all of the floors are out and you’ve spent your last quarter. And the tea stash in the the other drawer, so I can finally use it up. This is one of the things I first liked about my current job…having an actual cubicle with drawers to put things in. Drawers are meant to be used, and it’s not like anyone sees what is in them when they are closed, so who cares?

  50. Laura H*

    Tl; dr: I don’t want to waste my tax refund.

    I have a question that’s in a grey area of work and not but putting it in the Friday open thread because I think I’ll get more of the type of answer I’m wanting. *Alison, if this actually does fit better in the weekend thread, please delete and I’ll post it there tomorrow instead.*

    I’m getting a tax return that’s (for simplicity’s sake) $550. How would you split it percentage wise between an IRA, savings, and regular checking?

    I’d like to pop in at least one month’s contribution into my ira ($60/mo) I’m looking at purchasing a new laptop (picked and carted already) as well that’s under $275 within the month. And I want to possibly unofficially earmark some for rent ($120/ mo split between my two pay periods usu $80 first pp and $40 second pp.)

    I’m good with my money, but I want to continue developing good habits. And I figure that starting with the (smaller) large amounts develops your habits for bigger amounts down the road.

    Thank y’all.

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Woo-ee, let’s see if I can give suggestions here without tipping into official advice :)

      It would really depend on your individual situation. One good thing to keep in mind is that while IRA money is not inaccessible to you should you find yourself in a pinch, there are real and definite costs to dipping into it, and you might want to err on the side of caution if you think you might need that money later on.

      That’s not an argument against HAVING an IRA, mind you — but keeping out money for the laptop is a good idea, and if you’re concerned about rent being a stretch on your budget, you might want to keep the rest of the money in a savings account rather than a retirement account.

      The most painless way to contribute to an IRA is to do it like a 401k, and make your contributions as payroll deductions if possible. Personally, I’m not a fan of putting “windfall” type money into a retirement account simply because of the likelihood of wanting the lump sum for other things.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      My approach to “extra” money is a 50/50 split, usually. 50% to savings or debt payoff and 50% for fun.
      Worry about bumping your IRA contributions when/if you get a raise at work.

    4. Boredatwork*

      Technically – no one gets a “refund” you simply overpaid on your taxes, therefore decreasing your weekly paycheck.

      If you are making regular contributions to a retirement fund already, and don’t have outstanding credit card debt and have a solid emergency fund (typically 6 months of living expenses), I vote you spend the money! all of it!

      Otherwise, pay off a credit card or build up that emergency fund.

      1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        Well, a regular refund from a merchant is also a return of overpayment, so it’s not an inaccurate term.

      3. Bea*

        Refund is the correct word in the accounting sense. Your point should be that the comment writer should actually change their W-4 so that they do not withhold so much, I have my down to a science so I get less than $100 dollars back but don’t owe anything. I’m good with my money, it does me better in my pocket and not in the interest free pot the government has it in until the next year.

    5. Emily S.*

      Do you already have an emergency savings fund that would cover 3-4 months of living expenses?
      If not, the money should go to that. In a savings account.

    6. Scubacat*

      Generally speaking, I like to divide my tax refunds in half. Half goes to something fun (say, like a laptop). Then half to savings (hello retirement!). Its training your brain to link a reward with the action of saving for the future.

  51. KR*

    Having so many issues focusing. I need to go to therapy or something to try and get my life together. I feel like my work output is just so bad right now and I’m making stupid mistakes but I just can’t make my mind focus.
    I think part of it is that I have a lot going on right now and my husband is away so everything at home falls to me. We had bad sandstorms yesterday so what was planned as a relax-and-recharge evening turned into dusting the entire house. I still have to vaccum. It couldn’t be put off – the dust and Sand was everywhere and it still is after running the Roomba and dusting, it was just too late to turn on vaccum.
    I am trying to be gentle on myself and make myself focus and get things done. I wish I could just make myself do what I need to do. Thanks for listening.

    2. Recently Diagnosed*

      *points to name* As someone who spent the first 28 years of her life pretty sure she had ADHD but never getting tested, I encourage you to reach out about it. I also see a therapist on a bi-weekly basis for some other things, but getting treated for ADHD has turned so many things in my life around that I just assumed were always going to be personal flaws of mine. Internet hugs.

      1. KR*

        Thank you. I’ve been wanting to go see a therapist but the process of finding someone and calling my insurance company to see if they cover that person and so on is overwhelming, so I haven’t been able to do it yet. I appreciate the hugs.

    3. Jessi*

      Can you throw money at this situation? Hire a housekeeper/ assistant for a few hours each week?

      1. KR*

        You know, I have honestly been considering it. I got my couches steam cleaned a few months ago and it was AMAZING. The same company will steam clean my tile for a good price and it sounds wonderful. We have the cash to throw at the situation. I will do some googling to see if there’s a way I can help this with money.

    4. LilySparrow*

      Are you sleeping? I don’t sleep well when my husband’s away, and sleep is key to everything else working right (mind and body).

      1. KR*

        I’m not sleeping super well, you’re right. I’m trying to make sure I get three meals in me a day, lots of water, and sleep. Thank you for your comment.

        1. Traveling Teacher*

          When my husband has to travel, for me, it’s really helpful to put a soothing nature sounds soundtrack–like an ocean one or quiet rain–on while I’m falling asleep. Just having a little something is great for me to cover up all of the squeaks and bumps in the night that freak me out when I’m alone!

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Do you have someone who will touch base with you on a regular basis- by email, phone, text whatever?
      I had an aunt. We would call each other, “Whatcha doing today?” It’s amazing how just talking over small, mundane things like daily activities can be so helpful. And when something unusual happened, one would ask the other, “Do you have a plan for that?” If no, we would talk through options. She lived over a 100 miles away from me so the question was not rude, it was practical. She was not going to come over and help me. She could talk through options with me, though.

      While this should not be in place of therapy, it might be a good addition to your life, if you have a person who is willing to talk with you regularly. It should be someone whose opinion and ways you respect, a thinking person.

      Meanwhile check out your self-care. Make sure you are hydrating and eating good foods. This,too, can help support your thinking process. Again, not a replacement for therapy and other things but indeed a supportive activity that is a good solid piece of your overall plan here.

      1. KR*

        Thank you for your comment. My friends have been great for me. I’m very used to my husband being away but this time it’s been harder than usual.

    6. Thursday Next*

      It’s hard to “make” yourself focus. That’s not always a fair expectation of yourself! It sounds like you have some unusual circumstances now, with a sandstorm and your husband being away, and it’s great that you recognize you should be trying to be kind to yourself. Therapy might be one way of practicing self-kindness right now?

      1. KR*

        You’re so right, therapy is the way I should be practicing self kindness. It’s hard because this is mainly affecting work. I have to make myself do it because it has to get done. Thank you for your comment. I appreciate the support.

  52. GD*

    References question. I’m job searching for the first time in 5 years and have recently found a posting in another department at my (large, public) university that I have a strong interest in. I’m wondering how I should handle references if it comes up– my manager is pretty toxic for a number of reasons– but if she found out I was looking she would handle it REALLY poorly (to give you an idea, she still talks about a job *candidate* we had three years ago that withdrew her application to take a job elsewhere after saying she wanted to work at our university to be closer to family– she’s very adamant this person is some crazy liar…). As such, I’d only want her contacted if I was the finalist for the position, if that. How should I communicate that if I’m asked if she can be contacted?

    The next best option as a reference would likely be my old boss above my manager– we had a good relationship and she works in another department at this university. The only potential issue is that she left our department over a personal scandal (an affair)– but I don’t think the department I’m applying to would know that. I also have a few trusted peers that I’ve worked with that I know wouldn’t tell my manager I’m looking– but I’m not sure if peers make for the *best* references, even though I work with some of them on a near-daily basis. I’m guessing any of my peers at my previous job are now outdated references since I’ve been in my current role for 5 years?

    Also, if you have any tips about navigating a job search around a toxic manager besides the reference issue– I’d love to hear stories just to feel like I’m not alone!

    1. Ali G*

      It’s perfectly reasonable to ask that they not contact your current employer/manager. It’s actually pretty standard, because most people don’t want their current employers to know they are looking.
      I wouldn’t worry about the “scandal” with your old manager. The only thing that matters is that she supervised you, and she would agree to give a positive recommendation. Peer rec’s aren’t as strong, but if that is all you have at this point, I would do one.
      Good luck!!

    2. Blue*

      Is there someone higher in the hierarchy than you who isn’t your direct supervisor? I work in higher ed and have twice used people who were, for all intents and purposes, peers, but who officially had higher levels of responsibility and fancier titles. I worked with them pretty closely on a number of projects, so they were able to speak to my work despite not having the supervisory relationship, and its been effective thus far. And I agree that you shouldn’t let the “personal scandal” prevent you from using your old grandboss as a reference if she’s willing!

  53. LostInTheStacks*

    I have a theoretical question about teachers and discrimination laws. As part of my research recently, I watched an oral history with a World War II veteran who was blinded in one eye. When he became a teacher shortly afterwards, the principal warned him that if the kids found out, they would taunt him/try to get away with things on his blind side. He said that never happened during his career, but it got me thinking. Are teachers protected at all from hostile work environments created by their students?

    Let’s keep it as simple as possible and say it’s limited to verbal harassment regarding something like a disability, which doesn’t raise to the level of being criminally threatening but would ordinarily be covered by the laws if it were coming from a boss or a coworker. Does the administration have any responsibility for controlling the situation? Do the students (or their parents, I suppose, if they’re minors)? Or is it exclusively the teacher’s problem, since part of their job is to manage their classroom and monitor students’ behavior?

    1. Alice*

      I wasn’t in a public school, but I was supported every time I went to my manager and said “student X is behaving inappropriately; I’d like you to talk to him/her about it.” They would never throw the student out, but they would give them a talking to and in a couple cases threaten to call their embassy (because their tuition was being paid by the embassy, not just because they were a native of that country).

    2. Millennial Lawyer*

      One of the main challenges of teaching is that you have to manage unruly minors who can be really offensive. You can’t sue your students. There would have to be something else going on such as colleagues tacitly allowing it/joining in/telling him he can’t teach because of student reactions, etc, and again, that involves colleagues, not really the students.

      1. Millennial Lawyer*

        Also, teachers are usually unionized and have guidelines for how they need to be supported and evaluated. There are specific strategies that teachers would be trained to use in classroom management and would hopefully be supported if they have assistance. There are likely internal grievance processes that a teacher could turn to if they felt they weren’t being supported, and may have legal recourse if they felt they were being penalized without being supported enough. That said, it’s their responsibility to master these techniques. And again, can’t sue your students.

        1. LostInTheStacks*

          That’s more or less what I expected, although I had somehow totally forgotten that teachers unions existed and would also play a role. Thanks!

    3. krysb*

      I have a friend who was a temp teacher for the local high school. She said the worst part was the boys sexually harassing her.

    4. Oxford Coma*

      Are teachers protected at all from hostile work environments created by their students?

      Were you looking for an answer other than hysterical laughter? My family and social circle is full of teachers, many of whom work in distressed districts in a major city. In the past ten years, their collective experience has included:

      Two stabbings with shivs
      One chunk of meat bitten out of a shoulder during a cafeteria gang fight
      Multiple broken fingers while trying to fend off assaults
      One deep dog bite (a HS student brought her chihuahua to school)
      One accusation of kidnapping/rape, because the student didn’t want her parents to find out that she was spending the weekend with her 25-year-old boyfriend

      1. LostInTheStacks*

        Well, those are really different examples; you’ll notice I specifically said VERBAL harassment that does NOT rise to the level of criminal behavior. And I’m a little put out by the first sentence of your response, honestly… I thought it was a reasonable question. I know that, in actuality, many teachers do have to put up with more than they should. I was just curious about what the legal opinions/practices surrounding that would be if someone wanted to escalate the issue.

        1. Oxford Coma*

          The point, which I apparently did not state explicitly enough, was that none of those obviously severe and/or illegal actions ever amounted to any (legal or practical) recourse for the teacher or (legal) penalty for the student. If stuff at that level is getting swept under the rug, and it is, you’re SOL for problems like verbal harrassment.

          Yes, your question is reasonable. The reality of the situation, however, is not. Thus why there is a teacher shortage. People are sick of it.

    5. A Teacher*

      Should we be? Sure. Are we? It depends.

      I’ve been physically assaulted to the point of pressing charges twice–neither in my classroom, both in the hall where I was helping to break up a fight. We are told to “be a good witness” but if we seriously stood around and watched the fight, well how do you think that would go over?

      I’ve had kids call me names and in a few cases get suspended but most of the time they get a warning–nothing like being called a “f—ing b—ch” and then have the child come back in the next day to class. Sexual harassment has occurred as well. Most kids don’t call most teachers names. Most kids are decent human beings that have their moments. They are why I like teaching.

    6. Not That Jane*

      I don’t have a useful answer to this, but wanted to chime in that I have been told about this exact situation. A former colleague with a language-related learning disability misspelled things on the board occasionally, and a few super-smart middle school students actually started quasi-bullying the teacher about it. I know it was a frustrating and difficult situation, and this teacher didn’t feel able to complain or raise it as a concern to anyone, even when it rose to the level of “I need a new job rather than dealing with this every day.”

    7. Middle School Teacher*

      I think it depends a lot on the union. I think here, if I were subjected to a repeated pattern of harassment due to disability, I would contact the union. However, as Millennial Lawyer said, part of the job is dealing with unruly kids. And kids can be jerks (just like anyone can be a jerk). You would have to manage that.

      I would be making my admin and union aware of the harassment, though. That was a case here where a teacher launched a human rights complaint against her board because the teacher was harassed by a student racially, accused falsely of sexual assault, and other things, and the board did nothing to protect her. The teacher won her case.

    8. nym*

      I had a math teacher in high school with a visible disability – his right arm was paralyzed and shriveled from non-use. He addressed it on the first day of class by explaining it was an injury from a motorcycle accident when he was only about a year older than we were at the time, and as far as I know, no one ever brought it up again to his face or behind his back.

      I think if another teacher or administrator had heard comments they would have addressed it, but I recognize that my school/peer group may not have been average public school or average teenagers, and that might be different from what you are theorizing about here.

  54. MissGirl*

    I had a strange interview that left me perplexed on how to best handle a few things. While it’s come and gone, I’m curious how others would’ve handled it because I could have done things differently.

    I saw a posting for Position A on a company’s site. While I met a lot of the requirements, it was a stretch for me experience wise. I decided to go ahead and apply. I wrote a small paragraph on my resume labeled summary which I customized to explain why I’m a fit for that role. The same day I also saw a posting for Position B, which was more in my current wheelhouse. I didn’t apply because the position had been posted for four months and I figured it was too late.

    A week later I had a phone screen with the recruiter about Position A, who thought I might also be interested in Position B with my background. The next step in the process was a half hour phone interview with the respective hiring managers. I asked if I could move forward with both since the interview with the recruiter was more generalized about the company not the position. My thinking was a conversation with the hiring managers would give me a much better idea of both roles.

    My interview with Position A went fine though I was concerned about the workload (occasional 80-hour work weeks). Then I had the interview with Position B Manager on a Friday at 5 pm. Right off she asks why I’m even interested in the position since I applied to Position A and they’re so different. Her tone came off as adversarial and it threw me. I tried to explain how well my resume lined up to the position and how excited I was about it. It almost seemed she hadn’t reviewed my resume. There were other things that she said that also felt defensive.

    I was rejected the next morning but wondered if should’ve done some things differently.

    After the interview, I wanted to send a thank-you letter but hesitated because I wasn’t sure how to handle a few things. All my communication had gone through the recruiter so I didn’t have her email I address. It would be easy enough to figure it out, and usually I would send an email directly. I couldn’t tell by her attitude if reaching out directly would make her madder or have her think better of me. I considered mentioning I did want to apply to her position, but because it had been posted for four months I didn’t. I wasn’t sure if this would help or make me sound flaky. The rejection came before I had time to decide.

    I also wondered later if I should’ve sent over a second resume to the recruiter with a summary geared more toward the second position for that hiring manager. Not sure if that’s how she knew about the other position or if the recruiter mentioned it. My resume doesn’t specify the position I’m applying to.

    Also, should’ve I have picked one position and not moved forward with both?

    I did send an email after the rejection thanking her, asking to be kept in mind for future positions, and if she had any feedback. She never replied.

    1. Jennifer*

      It sounds like that manager was a jerk, to be honest. Not much you can do about jerk.

      That said, I haven’t had luck applying to 2 jobs in the same place, if one rejects you it seems like the other does too. Or did in my case, I guess the one that interviewed me told the other one “oh, she doesn’t have X,” and I got an auto reject letter.

    2. Bea*

      You asked and they said it was no biggie and your first interview went well. #2 was just an asshole, I’m sorry! You don’t want to work for someone who gets salty that you have options and skills that spread across different positions.

    4. MissGirl*

      Thanks, I wanted to make sure I didn’t break some unwritten rule about interviewing for both positions.

  55. CC*

    Does the rule of ‘gifts only flow downwards’ apply when your boss is co-hosting a baby shower for you at work? My boss, two of my coworkers in my department, and two other coworkers are all hosting a baby shower for me, during work hours. I would like to get them host/hostess gifts. Probably something simple, like foodie gifts from Trader Joe’s. Is this appropriate? Or any other gift suggestions?
    Thanks!

    1. Millennial Lawyer*

      I’ve never heard of someone giving hosts gifts. They are hosting as a gift to you without the expectation of something in return. I’d give them a card conveying your appreciation.

    3. [insert witty user name here]*

      I respectfully disagree with the comments above. I absolutely got hostess gifts for my sister and friend who hosted my bridal shower. They were, in fact, small foodie gifts from Trader Joe’s, and a thank you note. I would be on board with going against the “gifts only flow downwards rule” in this case. And I think your inclination to keep it small and consumable is spot-on.

      Flip side: as a party host, I would never *expect* a hostess gift, so I’m not saying it’s a “must-do” thing – I just chose to and would again for any party in my honor.

    4. Bea*

      Trinket gifts are always okay in my mind. It’s gifting large things that get awkward.

      I give everyone a coffee cup that reminds me of them and candies for special occasions. I’m not leaving the boss out because oh noes gifts flow down. It’s a trinket. Snacks are regularly appreciated for most people.

    5. Bend & Snap*

      Hostess gifts are a thing where I’m from. It might be regional. And yes, I think it’s appropriate in this context.

    6. General Ginger*

      I think small foodie gifts from TJs would be appropriate for them as thanks for hosting, in this situation.

    7. nym*

      I’m in a region where a hostess gift is part of the package (even though I’m from a region where it’s not, and it feels weird to me) and it would be perfectly fine to gift up something small in this case. The go-to around here is houseplants, which are hard for me because my cats try to eat anything leafy green and some are poisonous — I would love a foodie nibble from TJs instead!

      Yes, I have one cat that will dig kale out of the grocery bag and put toothmarks in it if I don’t put it in the fridge right away! Also rosemary, strawberries, and the plastic bags they come in. Silly cat.

    8. TootsNYC*

      With a PERSONAL shower, it is appropriate to give a gift to the person who has thrown you the shower. (I once wrote an etiquette column for a weddings publication, and this is the sort of thing I had to know.) A frequent suggestion was to send flowers to arrive the day before all the prep work had to be done.

      But for a WORK shower, a gift to the host is inappropriate.

      Write a thank-you note, or just say thanks. That’s enough.
      And the next time there’s some sort of shower, be part of the hosting–in other words, pay it forward.

  56. Amber Rose*

    Mini rant: The firemen came, as they do every year, to do a compliance hazard report. This year they balked and panicked because we have a quite large number of compressed gas cylinders (around 30 of the big guys and a bunch of the li’l ones) and there’s no way of knowing from outside.

    Yes? So we have for all the years the company has been around. Anyways welders with their acetylene are arguably more dangerous than our swamp gas and I’ve never seen a “warning: we employ welders” sign anywhere.

    This place hasn’t blown up since the previous owners were here, and only because they thought that a good place to store paint cans was directly above a piece of heavy machinery. :/

    Also someone got hurt yesterday because they tried to fix a chair with duct tape and it obviously didn’t hold, and I really want to put a sign on my cube that says I CAN’T FIX STUPID.

    1. Thlayli*

      Are the cylinders stored correctly? There are guidelines on how to store gas cylinders, including location and distance from buildings, cage types needed, appropriate signage etc. If you’ve met all the guidelines then the fire assessors would not be upset, you must have missed one of the guidelines. This stuff is legally regulated.

      I’ve never seen “we employ welders” but I’ve seen appropriate signage everywhere acetylene and oxygen are correctly stored.

      1. Amber Rose*

        We didn’t miss anything. Like I said, it’s not been a problem for the last decade. This dude was upset we didn’t have external signage for some reason. Maybe he was new.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          It could be a new reg or they could be tightening up on some regs. My thought was that the inspectors meet and say “Okay this year we are targeting all A, B, and Cs. We are going to write anyone who does not have these things in place.” Then the following year they do all D, E and Fs.

          I think my husband nailed it. His thought was that these folks are supposed to find something wrong. This is their job and it could be even what they are evaluated on, I don’t know. So I just decided that when an inspector comes something WILL be wrong. Hopefully, it’s easy to fix and then we move on.

        2. Thlayli*

          If it’s not currently a requirement in your area then this is an easy fix. Just send them a link to relevant regs and say there’s nothing in here about external signage, we request you alter the report findings to reflect that we are meeting all regs. But make absolutely certain that you are correct. The regs and guidelines are updated constantly and it is possible they misunderstood the latest update, but it’s also possible you misunderstood it. It’s highly unlikely they just invented a new rule that doesn’t actually apply in your location and went on a rant about it.

    2. FF*

      I don’t know why this would generate a *rant* unless the inspector was unpleasant. In our region, we require external signage. They were concerned because it’s dangeous to not have posted signage when cylinders are in use. Entering a building and finding unexpected cylinders is not good – and size, context and color are never guarantees. As an inspector, I loathe the excuse “it’s been fine for a decade” because all I hear is “it’s been dangerous for a decade”. So, now you know! That’s the purpose of many inspections – to identify gaps and promote correction. Our rules and regs are for our safety and your safety. And they apply to everyone – so we usually like to treat everything the same so that we don’t assume that unlabeled = safe. Say “thank you” and put the sign up?

      1. Not So NewReader*

        If the guy was ranting that is NOT cool. Inspection is more like a teaching job. Explain what is wrong and explain why it needs to be remedied. Ranting does nothing.

    3. LAM*

      This place hasn’t blown up since the previous owners were here…

      This made me chuckle. Thank you.

  57. princesswings*

    I have to interview candidates to replace one of my assistants this afternoon, for the first time in nine years. Please tell me they’re more afraid of me than I am of them.

    2. Um*

      Given the power dynamics in play here, I think it’s fair to say they’re probably more afraid of you.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yep. Some of them are wondering if they will have something to eat next week or not.

    4. DDJ*

      I always have to talk myself down a little bit before I conduct interviews. “You’re the one DOING THE INTERVIEW, why are you so nervous about it?” Seriously. It’s been so long since I’ve been interviewed that I think my brain just gets confused about the whole thing.

      I reckon at this point, you’re probably all equally afraid of each other! You’re having those feelings, that’s ok! But based on the power dynamic, you really do have less CAUSE to be afraid. I hope the interviews go well and that you find a great candidate!

  58. Fabulous*

    On Monday I sent an email to my remote boss asking for a 20% raise. I outlined my reasoning in the email; it was basically a recap of my recent quarterly performance review. She’s actually going to be in the office next week and scheduled a half hour for us to sit down and talk about it. I’m terrified!

    I’ve asked for a raise once at a past job and was denied. At this job, I was hired on for $2 lower than I asked for. And now I’m asking for $2 ABOVE my original ask in order to bring me up to the industry average for my job.

    How does one get through this kind of conversation without having a panic attack!? My heart starts to race just thinking about it!

    1. BRR*

      I asked for my first raise last year and was petrified. I had a sheet of information for my manager (I know how she processes things) and I had a similar sheet with additional talking points that I can follow. I practiced my “pitch” out loud several times and thought of questions I should anticipate. What I still nervous? YES! But I had practice and notes to guide me. Good luck!

    2. zora*

      1. What is the very worst thing that could happen? But realistically.
      Is she going to fire you for asking? (I doubt it). She says they can’t afford it? Then you can ask when it might be possible/how to get there.
      Now remind yourself you ARE GOING TO BE OKAY even if the worst possible thing happens. Because you will, right?

      2. BREATHE!!! I know, such a cliche, but it really does help. Every time your heart starts racing, take 5 deep breaths. And back to #1: YOU ARE GOING TO BE OKAY.

      Don’t be terrified!!! It will probably go fine! Come back and let us know what happened!

  59. Hellanon*

    Guys. I am rapidly getting to BEC stage with my direct report, who’s on a PIP (second written warning) because of overall work quality, and who just keeps on making stupid mistakes with her work. I have been coaching, coaching coaching, correcting correcting correcting and… crickets, in terms of improvement. Checklists, following the written instructions, issuing a request that basically comes down to “don’t make any decisions without asking” and – nothing. No improvement.

    What do you do? I know being put on a PIP with language that includes “up to and including termination” is supposed to help, but how do you handle the interpersonal aspects of when it doesn’t? I am scrupulously polite & respectful with her, but I just want to ask her what is going through her head…and then get to the next phase of PIP-land so I can hire someone competent.

    1. Alice*

      Maybe you can start thinking about the interview process and how you’ll improve it next time to avoid bad hires like this? It won’t make the PIP move any faster, but it might give you a sense of control that makes the waiting easier.

      1. GD*

        To that end– we have student interns and with about half of them, it’s a struggle getting them to follow basic directions. I convinced my boss to swap out some of our interview questions and we got some very good and very telling responses this time around that I think will make a difference next year. The best switch was replacing her “How do you handle feedback?” question with “Tell us about a time when you didn’t agree with feedback you received, how did you resolve the situation?” and boy did we get some illuminating answers to that question! Including a fair number of students that apparently don’t attempt to resolve situations like that at all.

    2. Creag an Tuire*

      It sounds like you can’t actually fire her until The Process is complete, but can you say, nicely but firmly, “You still seem to be struggling with this — should we continue, or should we start talking about what your strengths are so we can start thinking your transition and what kind of recommendation we can give you?”

      1. Former Retail Manager*

        YES!!! If this person is not getting the picture from the PIP, I wonder if she even realizes that this is 99% sure of ending with her being let go? I think you need to spell that out for her and let her know that she isn’t improving to the degree that you need and see if she’ll tap out on her own.

        1. Creag an Tuire*

          Yeah, it’s a combination of that and letting her know that you’re willing to recommend her to jobs that would play to her strengths (Admittedly, I’m hoping here that she has some good qualities…) and that she has options other than “ride this plane crash all the way down”.

          I’m saying this as someone who’s been on the other end of a “this is definitely not going to work out” conversation, FWIW.

    3. WorkingOnIt*

      Be ‘brutal’ or blunt if you’re being so polite they may not be taking this too seriously and if you’re always coaching they may see this as ongoing training rather than something final. Make a meeting be really straightforward, I’m afraid we’re not seeing any improvements in your working and with PIP the next step will be termination, then give a time-frame (and stick by it – provided this is all HR approved.) But you’re maybe being too polite and kind at the moment which perhaps is doing this person a diservice they may not think they’re doing as badly as they are because although they’re on PIP you’re coaching them and they’re not being reprimanded. Say I need to see you do x, y, z by this point otherwise we will need to set up termination, if we have not seen any improvements in this timeframe. They may well be upsetting, but they can either really put their back into it, or look for something else – or they may even to decide to leave on their own accord. Give them feedback during the remaining timeline- don’t make it a one off and then return to coaching they’ll be thinking things are fine or be completely in the dark about how things are going and maybe scared to ask you. Arrange regular feedback meetings be very serious – I still need to see x, I’m afraid you’re still not meeting expectations and we are still on the timeline for termination, make regular clear official meetings rather than coaching them. I’m sure it will feel majorly uncomfortable for you but it is actually kinder as the person who is likely being terminated will have options, or will at least see this very clearly in their head – for whatever reason we’ve all been blinkered to obvious things- and will not be blindsided by their termination.

      1. Hellanon*

        Oh, it’s spelled out. The written counseling memo included those exact words. And this is a grownup with a work history & a master’s degree! I am documenting and continuing to coach on process/bring mistakes to her attention… it’s the degree of not engaging with the necessary improvement, this weird passivity, that’s got me scratching my head.

        1. What-about-us*

          Maybe they don’t think they can – have clocked out and are looking for other jobs. Or not – perhaps directly ask – you seem disengaged from this process are you not clear on what you need to do to pass PIP.
          I’m not sure what documenting means – are you writing notes or are you meeting and saying this isn’t acceptable? Also feel that having a direct conversation rather than a memo would clarify things. Even if they’ve had a work history they might never have found themselves in this position before. But equally maybe you have been clear and they’ve given up on this job and are waiting it out while they look for another

        2. Not So NewReader*

          It could be that this job is not for her.

          Does she even check her own work before passing it on as completed work?

          Have you asked her what her plan is to prevent some of the recurring mistakes?

          In all likelihood, it’s not you, as another poster said, she has just checked out and putting in a physical presence until her time is over.

  60. Super stressed*

    I need advice about how to reach out to a formal supervisor/mentor about potentially working at his organization! Here’s the situation:
    >Interned for Org A while in college. Org A is consultant, so although I was their intern I was on a job site at Org B.
    >Got job offers from both Org A and Org B
    >Accepted offer from Org B
    >Supervisor at Org A said that the door is always open for me, has made casual comments about how “we’ll get her next time ha ha”, etc.
    >Org A and Org B still have working relationship, so my current and former supervisors interact regularly, and I work with people with Org A.

    Anyway, I’ll be ready to move on from Org B soon (My supervisor at Org B is aware of this, so I don’t need to worry too much about keeping things quiet) and I’d be interested in working for Org A. My question is about how I raise my interest…do I email my old supervisor? Do I call him? I have no idea what to say!
    To complicate things, I am not 100% sure that I would want to work for the company (I don’t want to work there if I’ll be travelling all the time, for example, which is a possibility because of the nature of their work), but I do want to explore the option.

    Help!

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      Send a quick email.
      Hey old supervisor I’m getting ready to move on from company B are there any openings at company that you think would be of interest to me?

  61. newbie*

    Any tips for settling in at a new job? I’m in that uncomfortable ‘learning how to do things while doing them’ phase. It’s getting me down, because I’m coming from a job where I was doing super awesome, and I’m missing that feeling a lot right now.

    1. BadWolf*

      I was there recently!! Things I told myself: This is part of the learning process. You’ve done it before and you’ll do it now (you weren’t magically awesome at your other job). As you go, it will start to snowball (instead of every single thing being new, a couple things will be familiar, then more and then more and then the new things are fun problems to tackle). It’s a bit like exercise — your brain has to make some new paths and get back into learning shape.

      Reward yourself for tackling something new! New tool for your hobby, nice meal, etc.

    2. AnotherJill*

      I always liked that first part of a new job. Listening, looking around, figuring out who had the real power, what the interpersonal dynamics are, etc.

  62. Kris*

    My 17-year-old son wants to apply for a retail job for the summer and into the next school year with one of his favorite chain stores. He’s inquired in person at the local store where he’d like to work and discovered that he must submit an online application to the chain website. He will not be available to work until early July. When would be the best time for him to submit the online application (eg, now but indicating that he will not be available for a few months vs. shortly before he is available vs. only after he is available)?

    1. Buckeye*

      Some online applications have an “available start day” field, in which he could put whatever day in July he will be officially available. If that’s an option, he could go ahead and submit it now.

      If not, I would wait until 2-3 weeks before his available start day to submit the application.

    2. Lindsay J*

      I would do it shortly before he is available. Like the beginning to middle of June.

      Most retail shops don’t have very long hiring processes, and generally won’t hire someone now to start in a couple months. When they want to hire someone they want someone who is able to start in like 2 weeks max.

      I also don’t think most ATSs would hold onto the application and wait to spit it out until a job opens closer to the time he is available. It will take it and send it to management right now, and they will reject him because they’re looking for someone to start in May, not in July. Or it will just sit and languish in the ATS forever and not be seen by an actual person because it doesn’t fit their criteria at the moment, and when they are hiring for a position starting in July in like June or so they will have fresh applications to look at.

      I don’t see any real advantage to applying now, and several potential disadvantages.

      1. Kris*

        This was my thought, too, Lindsay, but my husband was more of Buckeye’s mind. To complicate matters, for the three weeks immediately preceding his availability, my son will be completely out-of-pocket, working as a sleepaway camp counselor. I think maybe the best thing for him to do is apply for the retail immediately after returning from camp and be ready to beat the bushes for babysitting and carpooling jobs if the retail job doesn’t work out immediately. Thanks!

        1. Buckeye*

          I’ve never worked in retail and so submitting early may be detrimental as Lindsay J points out. His best bet is probably to wait like she suggested.

        2. WellRed*

          I agree, for retail, he should wait till he gets back from camping cause if they don’t hear back timely they’ll just keep going down the list of candidates

  63. Annie Moose*

    Whoops, just saw Alison’s comment on the other thread about doing a dedicated post for it. Please save your stories for that!! (and feel free to remove this post entirely, Alison, so it doesn’t take away from the official one)

  64. DouDouPaille*

    Not a specific question here, but more of an observation. Wondering if others can relate. I’ve been really depressed lately that I don’t seem to be able to live up to my career potential. I’m 48, and after 25+ years in the working world I make less than 55K a year and only had “manager” in my title once in my life. I’m currently in a job I’m way overqualified for — I have been searching for MONTHS for something else, but there just isn’t much in my field in this area. I wish I had more to show for all my years of education and effort.. all my friends are already partners in a law firm, running their own startup, published writers, whatever. I know part of the problem is that I graduated into a recession in 1991 and it took a couple of years to even find someone to hire me, then I changed careers in the mid-2000s and basically had to start over at the bottom. The other problem is trying to balancing my career goals with my husband’s. Sometimes we have to move for my career, sometimes for his, but either way, someone’s career suffers during the transition. Sigh. Of course I am grateful for what I have, but I am just so bored in this job and feel like I should be 2 rungs higher at this point. Staring down 50 and thinking I’m on a downward slide to obscurity and retirement, and it’s probably too late to ratchet up the ladder now. Or maybe I just don’t have the energy anymore. Someone please snap me out of this Friday the 13th funk!!

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      Hey, I understand. I’ve reached a milestone birthday and I’m not where I thought I’d be in life either, both professionally or personally. It’s extremely difficult to feel like you can’t go anywhere or do any better despite how much you try. I try to take my wins where I can and let the other stuff go. Keep trying to find a job. Maybe look at a slightly different industry, something that’s related but not the exact same industry.

    2. Alex*

      This is very relatable and I’m only a dozen years post-college. I’ve really only had two “professional” jobs, but neither of them feel like they are on the level of what I think I’m capable of doing. I’m also moving for my partner’s career so I will be starting over in a new place with no leads. So I have somewhat resigned myself to the fact that my career will never define me or be the source of pride or self-esteem. The only really bummer for me though is I still am paying off student loans for degrees that never seemed to help me get ahead career-wise.

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        I can totally relate. I was at OldJob for 20 years was doing well (even had a Title). Then the Company was taken over by another and instead of getting a Gold watch, I got a Pink Slip. I was out of work for 2 years and when I did finally get a job, it was one that I was over qualified for (but after two years of NOT working, it was a dream come true). I’ve been at this job for 5 years now. I definitely do not see myself retiring from this current job and I am actively looking for something else that is more challenging. On the plus side, I do work with some very nice people at this job and there’s never a dull moment. I’ve not given up on finding my dream job, so I send out my resumes KNOWING one of them will get into the right hands, at the right company at the right time.

      2. General Ginger*

        This is so relatable. I’m staring down 40 right now, and feeling much the same. To some degree, feeling that my career will never define me or be my primary source of pride/self-worth is freeing, but at the same time, it’s incredibly frustrating, as well. I have to remind myself that my experiences are not others’ experiences and can’t be, that I can find other areas to challenge myself in, but the lack of financial security aspect is really tough.

    3. WorkingOnIt*

      I’m younger but similiar issue with regards graduating into a recession, it’s depressing comparing myself to others especially those younger who are way above me as they skipped the recession, or those within my age group who’ve got their lives put together and escaped the recession effects, or even much older people who have steady careers, own their own home and have security. What I’ve had to try to do (I’m definitely not always successful at it) is try to compare myself to my previous self, I was able to do this with my salary for instance, like I’m sure compared to other people at my level of experience/qualifications my salary wasn’t that great in my last job, but compared to my prior job it was actually a big bump upwards. Same in terms of responsibilities and the name awareness of the company. You’ve had different life experiences than other people, try to only compare yourself to you, and don’t look down on what you’ve achieved compared to what others had, you’ve no idea what’s going on behind the scenes for them. (Once again I have to remind myself this all the time.)

      It’s definitely not too late to move upwards, it just could be tough – like most things are. I think it would be good for you to go for it, you may feel worse down the line if you ‘slid into obscurity and retirement’ without a fight . Something I had to look at was how I was marketing myself on my resume – are you actually doing yourself a diservice in terms of value you give, what you’ve achieved and what you do? I really hated a particular significant job on my resume and looked down on it, and that probably hurt my ability to move forward, try and look at all your jobs objectively rather than perhaps feeling you should have been doing better, which inadvertently means you’ll probably undersell yourself.

    4. WellRed*

      I’ve got a friend or two who are really hitting their professional stride and I always thought that would be me (I am the “smart one.”) I’m 48, burned out but not unhappy and frankly feeling broke. But I also feel unmotivated and unsure what to do next. However, circumstances are forcing me to dust off my resume so that could help.

  65. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

    Those of you who interact with clients regularly… how do you manage explaining really obvious things without being condescending?

    This is on my mind this morning since I just got a very snarky email from a client about how an expected recurring transaction didn’t take place AGAIN, now it’s scheduled for next month but oh he’s sure there’s going to be some reason why we won’t process it next month, blah blah….

    Well, the reason the recurring transaction didn’t happen is that there’s no money in the account to pay it. I spent a good twenty minutes just trying to phrase my response email in a way that couldn’t possibly give the impression that I was being snarky back at him. Probably not helped by the weasel in my brain telling me my answer should totally be “Do you properly understand the concept of MONEY, sir?”

    Since I’m communicating in writing, I can’t use my normal strategies of tone management and casual word choice — I have to maintain a certain level of written formality, and of course there’s no tone in text. QA would not appreciate me adding “lol j/k” to a formal client email!

    1. Red Reader*

      Is it the kind of thing where you can do something like “Llama Herders Inc attempted to process that transaction on Thursday the 12th at such-and-such time, but was unsuccessful due to insufficient funds. Is there another account that should be used for this month, or would you prefer that we process it out of the same account again?”

      1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        Not quite that wording, but it was close to what I ended up with. I think a large part of my problem is that NOT providing steps to avoid the problem is obviously a no-go, but pointing out “there’s no money in the account to place that recurring order, to avoid order cancellation please ensure the account is adequately funded before the next scheduled order date” feels like such a DUH solution that I’m just rubbing it in.

        1. Red Reader*

          Nah, I feel you. That was the worst part of working as a cashier to me — because the people who aren’t expecting to have their payment card declined are usually super embarrassed about it, and the people who are (WHY??) are frequently awful. No, I won’t let it slide “just this once.” No, I won’t give you my employee discount. No, I won’t let you take stuff without paying for it. NO, I AM NOT THE ONE TAKING TOYS AWAY FROM YOUR CHILDREN AND SPOILING CHRISTMAS, YOU AWFUL AWFUL PERSON.

          But yeah, the frequency with which I got “What am I supposed to dooooooo?” I mean, I’m just the cashier here, all I can do is put back some of your purchases for you, I’m not the one who can remedy the fact that you don’t have enough money for what you’re trying to buy.

          1. WillowSunstar*

            Considering that most companies let you check your balance online at home before you go shopping, I don’t see why more people don’t do that before going out shopping.

        2. zora*

          I try to pretend in my head that I’m telling them something else that is NOT obvious, and then match my tone. And also pretend in my head that they asked nicely, instead of being a snarky brat. ;o)

          Honestly, your wording is not “DUH” for him, obviously, because he doesn’t get it, so I don’t think he will read it as snarky at all. He will read it as factual.

        3. Not So NewReader*

          So many jobs end up being explaining obvious things to people.

          Gadget does not work. “Is it plugged in?”

          Machine does not run. “How is the gas tank, is it full?”

          One thing that has helped me some is to think of times where I did not plug in the gadget or did not check the gas tank. This stuff happens.

          It’s a little tougher when a customer/client makes the same mistake repeatedly. If your setting is more formal, I would go with giving the EXACT same explanation you gave the last time. Have your wording picked out and keep using the same words.
          If your setting is less formal (which it does not sound like it is) I will talk about memory triggers OR just do a sample memory trigger. “Yes, you can expect our bill to hit your account on the tenth day of every month. That way you can remember, the tenth is when the bill is paid.”

          It is also helpful if there is a service charge for late payment. This will catch those who are concerned about being on time. There are some people who will never get it, though.

    2. AnotherJill*

      I used to go through this with students. Why did I get a B- on this assignment? Did you read my comments? No. Well, read them and then see if you have other questions.

      It does get really hard not to bring out the snark.

    3. Tuckerman*

      I think it helps to give them the opportunity to save face, so the other person doesn’t get defensive. There’s always the teeny possibility that this was somehow your fault (or technology’s fault), so I like to leave room for that possibility. I’d approach more like I’m trying to gather information than I’m trying to teach them a lesson. “It looks like the account had insufficient funds. Were you expecting the transaction to come from a different account?” Basically, making room for the possibility that they sent a form indicating a new account, but it got lost in cyberspace, or Klingons intercepted it, or you missed it.

    4. Bea*

      Just remind yourself that what’s obvious and standard to us isn’t to everyone else.

      I’ve explained basic things to everyone from consumers to executives who fly into a tantrum over goodness knows why.

      If it’s on the phone, stay calm and collected. If it’s in email, give them the details without adding any sass, most people do not feel it’s condescending they’re like “oh…right…there wasn’t money in there because bookkeeper didn’t transfer on time or whatever”

      Also having dealt with overdrawn accounts, unless this is a consumer, they’re probably spiraling the drain financially and are making their problem yours suddenly.

      A factual response with expressed concern for their inconveniences gets things done 97% of the time. The other 3% will be offended any chance they get.

      Almost two decades of dealing with humans has not rotted my heart out, I actually miss my CSR duties *doh*

    5. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      Another thing I had to remind myself of was that they don’t realize you are being snarky. It sounds that way in your head, but they don’t know you and aren’t reading it in your voice. This assumes you are using neutral, professional words obviously.

      I’d go with starting out with an apology, followed by what you found when you researched the issue. “I’m so sorry for the frustration of this transaction not going through. When I researched, it shows on our end that the account didn’t have the funds for this to process. Let me know if we should continue with this account or if there’s another one you would prefer to be used. Thanks so much!”

    6. Sam.*

      Ok, I’ve been dealing with something like this from the other side, so I’ll just say kudos for being self-aware and thoughtful about how you’re coming across! Mine isn’t a client relationship – if I worked at a llama farm, and all the trainers were responsible for ordering food for their assigned llamas, this office would process the orders. Their point person replies to virtually every inquiry from a llama trainer with something like, “You can submit your food order at any time through X system, and it will arrive within 3 days.” It’s always very curt and reads as, “You’re an idiot for not knowing this,” which I’m sure reflects her opinion of all of us.

      The problem is: the overwhelming majority of the time, that’s NOT AT ALL what the trainer actually asked. And then she gets mad if you mess up the thing you asked about and she ignored (or didn’t get? I can’t tell). It’s completely infuriating to semi-regularly have to say, “Yes, I [still] know that. I’m asking [same exact thing I already asked in different words.]”

  66. Confused Publisher*

    Shout out to Alison and AAM commentariat today.
    I was at London Book Fair on Wednesday and dropped into some of the seminars between meetings. One was titled ‘How to get ahead in publishing’, and one of the panelists referred to this website as an invaluable resource for workplace information – especially for small employers without dedicated HR departments; at that point I nodded so hard my head nearly fell off. When someone asked a follow-up question, she then went on to talk about llama-wrangling and I nearly whooped out loud.
    I had to leave before the end of the session, so I don’t know if Fergus, Wakeen, rice sculptures or teapots made an appearance.

    4. TootsNYC*

      I spoke to a bunch of college students (a former college colleague of mine is a professor and brought some students to my city, and arranged me for me to speak to them).

      Once I got through all of the “my specific job specialty” bits, I went on to “general work” stuff, and recommended the site, and the book.

  67. Interviewing Hell*

    How necessary are full suits for interviewing? I find it incredibly challenging to find a suit that fits properly because of my body. I am short, fat, and large chested (female). I cannot afford to have pieces individually tailored, especially when many of the potential employers are requires 2-3 in-person interviews. I typically wear a nice dress and coordinating suit jacket. Is that okay?

    An example – last week I had an interview and wore a black dress and a gray jacket. They invited me back this week and I wore the same dress (it is a simple and unremarkable black dress) and a white and black jacket. I’m anticipating they will invite me back next week and I will probably wear a skirt and sweater as I’ve seen enough now to know they’re a little more relaxed in their dress code.

    Thoughts or suggestions?

    1. fposte*

      It’s field and region dependent, but I think in most fields what you’re talking about is fine. And unless you’re really out of step with your field, it may not be worth the extra effort and expense of doing suits just to be in step with the formal few.

    2. SoCalHR*

      I feel like your state and the company culture really makes a difference here. I’m not a huge fan of suits so I pair blazers with other pieces as well. But I’m in Southern CA so I think it works.

    3. Can't Sit Still*

      A cautionary tale about suits: I finally broke down and bought a nice suit for interviews. I had it tailored to fit (I am also short, fat and large chested) and I looked great. I wore it once. I now wear jeans to work every day. Don’t buy a suit if you’ll only need it for interviews.

    4. The Original K.*

      I have suits but I often wear dresses with jackets (sometimes without – I have a couple of more formal long-sleeved dresses) for interviews and it’s never been an issue. I’ve never worked anywhere with a formal dress code though.

    5. Lindsay J*

      I haven’t needed one. I usually go with black dress pants and an contrasting suit jacket. Usually the jacket is in the light gray family somewhere with a contrasting texture as well.

      It sounds like your outfits are appropriate, and it seems like they must be okay for the field and area you’re in because you’ve made it to the second and third interview. So it doesn’t sound like you need to change anything.

    6. [insert witty user name here]*

      As someone who is not so short, fat, and large chested, suits look RIDICULOUS on me. I look far better in a dress with a sweater than a suit jacket. I think what you’ve described sounds perfect. Unless you are in a very formal or conservative industry (high level finance, law, politics), I think there is more possibilities than just suits for us. You can dress it up a little with conservative looking shoes and accessories, and make sure you “look the part” in terms of hair/makeup/nails/etc (not saying any of those have to be elaborate, but make sure your hair is neatly groomed, if you wear makeup, it is well applied and not overdone, and your nails look neat – no chewed off fingernails, bare nails are preferable to chipped polish, etc) (sounds like you probably know this stuff – just putting it out there to say that an overall look > specifically wearing a suit if it doesn’t look good on you)

  68. Fabulous*

    I just saw an email this morning from the admin of a sister office talking about how they’re going green and will no longer be purchasing coffee cups for employees. They’ve switched brands of coffee to something less expensive, and as of May 1st will no longer provide artificial sweetener either. I can’t remember if creamer was on the cut list too. Thank GOD it’s not my office because UGH I need my coffee with creamer and 2 splenda.

  69. Rice Teapots and Chocolate Sculptures*

    I’m looking for tips for when you’re at BEC with your job. Unfortunately I can’t look for a new job until at least the start of 2019. Basically, I was promised a promotion a year ago by my previous manager who left right after saying it was in the works. I got a new manager in the fall (who I do like) and while I did eventually get the raise that was promised to me, my manager hasn’t been very clear about whether it’s even possible to get a title bump now.

    Normally I would ask what I would need to do for a promotion but since this was promised to me over a year ago I am admittedly impatient about it and don’t want to wait until 2019 (promotions are usually given at the start of the year) . I feel incredibly unappreciated and truthfully don’t think the better title will solve that but I want the public recognition and what was promised to me. I’m still doing my job well and have kept my irritation in check but I am incredibly unmotivated and every time I think about this, I get overwhelmed with how I was screwed over. Any advice? Thanks!

    1. Jennifer*

      Probably look for another job? If they’re not gonna, they’re not gonna. Promises mean nothing, especially when someone leaves.

      1. GD*

        Just to echo what Jennifer said– I’ve had 4 bosses in the last few years (same manager though)– they all promised big things that never came to fruition after they left. That’s maybe a slightly extreme example since we’ve had crazy turnover but yeah… should have started job searching years ago.

      2. Rice Teapots and Chocolate Sculptures*

        While I’ve been keeping an eye out, unfortunately I don’t vest in my retirement for another 10 months and it’s pretty sizable. It would be a huge hit for me to leave before then.

      1. Jerry Vandesic*

        Exactly. Start planning for your next job. Do things that will bulk up your resume in ways that will help you get the next job you want. Training, public speaking, mentoring, coaching. Think of the next 10 months as a training regimen for getting your next job.

    3. Graphic Design Bear*

      I feel really silly asking, but I’ve seen BEC used a few times on this site but my Google searches come up empty when I try and define it, what does that mean?

      I appreciate the help!

      1. SCAnonibrarian*

        Apologies for the cursing and the slur: B!tch Eating Crackers. BEC. Basically when you are so fed up with Jane that all she has to do is sit in the break room and eat crackers on her break and HOW DARE SHE EAT CRACKERS AT ME LIKE THAT SHE’S SO HORRIBLE CANT SHE TELL THE CRUNCHING IS INTOLERABLE!!

        It’s an exaggeration of that relationship-failure point where the other person can’t even breathe without you being exasperated and upset with her.

        1. Graphic Design Bear*

          I love it! I’ve definitely been at that point with some people, lol.

          That’s a really useful acronym and I might start using it : D

  70. Can't Sit Still*

    My advisor asked if I would be interested in speaking at my commencement, as an “inspirational” speaker. No, not really. I find “inspirational” speakers repellant, generally, or at least the audience reaction to them. The audience is always so grateful that whatever it was didn’t happen to them, but they want to glory in every last gory detail. My advisor was particularly gleeful about how everyone cries during the speeches.

    Clearly, I’m missing something, because to me, inspirational speeches always seem to be about the audience reveling in someone else’s pain, instead of, you know, preventing it from happening again. What am I missing? And why do people feel like this is something that has to be shared at work or school? Get your suffering porn on your own time, if that’s what you’re into. Leave me out of it.

    1. SpiderLadyCEO*

      I’m with you. I have yet to hear one that isn’t trauma porn that wasn’t a speech from a sports film. You know, the ones where the head coach tells them all they will beat the other team.

      Maybe you should give one of those. ;)

    2. fposte*

      I didn’t know this was a thing, and it sounds pretty gross. (I am not old enough to actually have watched the game show Queen for a Day, but it makes me think of it.) I’m with you on a hard pass there.

    4. TotesMaGoats*

      From the other side of the table, I always find it awesome the things my students have overcome or accomplished to make it where they are today. The value is someone else hearing that overcoming whatever barrier and finding success can happen and does happen all the time. Plus the students who haven’t graduated yet and read about what you accomplished may find encouragement from your story.

      I’d consider it a compliment. You don’t have to get gory with details. And certainly, if you don’t want to don’t do it. But the decades of stories I’ve heard from people coming from poverty, drug addiction, abuse, serious health issues, etc and achieving their goals of a degree, yeah I cry. I cry like a baby at graduation, always have. I cry happy tears over people crossing the stage that I don’t even know. The smiles, they get me. The parents (and kids) screaming and cheering from the stands. It why I work in higher ed.

      I digress. Don’t do it if you don’t feel comfortable but those speeches are very impactful.

    5. Casual Dave*

      Go and do an untypical speech.

      Eg a sort of variant on ant and grasshopper where after all the hard work / lazing around the ant gets eaten by an aardvark and the grasshopper wins the lottery.

      1. TootsNYC*

        yeah, tell jokes.

        Or complain. “Here’s what all the rest of you, the ones without the trauma, are doing wrong”

    6. Millennial Lawyer*

      There was a whole commencement speaker contest at my school. A lot of people consider giving a commencement speech a big honor, and are proud to showcase their accomplishments.

      One of the speakers gave a speech about how he overcame his undocumented status and became a lawyer – it was really inspiring, and also drew attention to a political issue that other audience members might not have been aware affected someone they knew, which made it more personal to them. You’re absolutely entitled to NOT want to do that (it’s definitely no one’s responsibility to put themselves out there like that!), but some may see it as a great opportunity to encourage people to action, such as donating to a cause or writing a letter to an elected official.

    7. Temperance*

      FWIW, I regularly participate in an initiative to talk to lower-income students/teen parents about careers.

    8. AnotherAlison*

      Hmm, I actually find it encouraging and meaningful. I suppose I can understand why you wouldn’t want to do it, depending on your personal story, but I know a lot of people who were in my own personal situation and took a different path because graduating college and supporting themselves didn’t seem possible to them. I believe if someone can do something, others can do it, but they need to know it has been done. That’s the value I see. Not the tears.

    9. WillowSunstar*

      It depends on the speech. I’ve heard many inspirational speeches in Toastmasters that weren’t just based on someone’s trauma. Some of them were given by people who had lost a lot of weight. Once speech I heard last year at the intl. contest was from a man who walked over a mile in hot weather to his first job interview because he didn’t have a car at the time, but he got the job. You don’t have to have tons of medical details to compose a good inspirational speech, but a good one should typically show that something was overcome and/or a challenging goal was reached. And yes, you can totally include what you learned about preventing the negative thing from happening again. There are no rules about giving speeches that say you can’t, at least not generally. It’s your speech. Do what you want with it.

  71. Liza*

    I’m wondering how people handle interviewing when you’re just starting or switching careers. I’m applying for entry level jobs in my desired field. I have a solid range of qualifications and some vocational training and limited volunteer experience (which I have learned to make the most of in application forms), but my field is renowned for people making sideways moves and so I’m competing against candidates with considerably more hands-on experience. How do I stand out from the crowd when I’m likely to be one of the least experienced interviewees?

    1. Ali G*

      OMG are you me? I would be interested in hearing some advice too! I am trying to pivot from “technical lead” in my field to more communications, development, management. I have “experience” in all those things, but they have never been core parts of my jobs, so I’m trying really hard to leverage skills I can bring to the areas I am lacking. But I know I am competing with people who went to school for this, or who have been doing it already.

    2. zora*

      Good answers to situational questions.
      Good questions for them.

      Write out stories to answer common situational questions (A time you disagreed with a coworker, a time you had to deal with a difficult customer, etc) and make sure you have solid stories with a beginning, middle and end but short and tight.

      Look up lists of good questions to ask in interviews and think through what is really important to you. Management style? Communication style? Performance review/evaluation process? And have some thoughtful questions prepared. I actually write mine down on like the 3rd or 4th page of my notepad that I will have with me, and then I can glance at it to remember mine when it’s my turn to ask questions.

      The more thoughtful you are about the more nuanced things and soft skills, the more a good manager will want you to work for them.

      1. zora*

        As in, since you possibly can’t compete with others on technical skills, make it clear you will be a strong employee who listens, communicates and takes initiative. Those are the things that are harder to teach and in support positions are arguably more valuable.

        1. Liza*

          Thank you! I’ll have a think about how I can demonstrate soft skills, and I’m researching questions to ask as we speak. I do have a couple of particular situations that I can draw on for certain things but it’s a little bit hit and miss as to whether they are applicable to those given in the interview, as my experience is so limited, but at least I’m beginning to learn what the common questions are and I can piece together some answers in advance. Thanks again!

  72. Me--Blargh*

    So I canceled that out-of-town interview.

    I ran numbers (as best I could) with what it would cost to live there, what they were paying, and what the hiring manager had told me his best estimate was on the 40% employee cost of insurance (not including dental; that was another 60/40 split with the company, and no vision at all). I considered the job’s dead-end status — no upward or lateral trajectory within the company. I would have to leave again to get anywhere. I considered that I’ve been looking in StL since day one, and that none of the non-admin jobs I applied to have responded to me, except the one where the position was in a city three separate people warned me not to move to.

    Did I make a mistake? I don’t think I did. If the job were here, even with the horrible insurance situation I probably would have gone for it because I pay half the amount for housing here and could save escape money. I can’t afford to move so I would have had to have help, and it just wasn’t worth it to move for a dead-end job where I couldn’t even save anything. If there had been a bunch of other jobs to which I could reasonably be hired, then I would have done it, but I’ve been looking for 18 months and all I’m finding are the same shitty jobs as in this city. StL is just a bigger version of Spfd. Oh, and every single one of the decent ones have accounting/finance/invoicing/budgeting/expense spreadsheets, etc. etc. etc. :(

    My gut was just twisted into knots the entire time over it. I’m not afraid to move or take risks. But it just felt wrong. After I made the call, I felt so much better. I did tell him that the insurance split was the deal breaker. I doubt they’ll change anything, however. He was super nice about it.

    Of course, now I feel horrible again. And to top it off, I got rejected again yesterday. Maybe this book is just shit and it’s time to forget about it. #idontwanto

    1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      You didn’t sound jazzed about the job initially and I think you made the right decision, your gut told you it was wrong and you listened to your gut. I am so sorry you’re having such a hard time, but you’ll find something. Good luck, fingers crossed for you!

    2. Nynaeve*

      These decisions are so personal, and I think this was a Kobayashi Maru situation–no winning no matter what you did (unless you used cheat codes, like Kirk). In the end, you only make the best decision you can. It’s really normal to doubt yourself during long-term unemployment, but you sound like you had really good reasons for making the decision you did.

      Good luck with your book and ongoing job search. I think of you often and am hoping the best for you (as I know many other AAM commenters are also).

    3. Caledonia*

      I did this too when I was job searching. I was offered a job but I really didn’t want it (my heart sunk when I was offered it) and I knew as soon as I got another opportunity I would be gone (which had happened to them before) so I turned it down.

    4. Me--Blargh*

      Thanks all.

      I probably would have taken it if offered, if the insurance had been covered. But to go from Exjob, where I had medical, dental, AND vision and paid maybe $40 a month to paying $200 a month on the same salary, with my housing cost doubling on top of that, just was not doable. I was so afraid I’d just trade getting stuck in one place for getting stuck in another only twice as expensive. And not even the expensive place I’d like to get stuck in!!!

  73. Hobbes*

    I have been really frustrated lately by scheduling at my work. I work in a field that involves a mix of office and outdoor work. The outdoor work typically starts early, has long days and occasional overnights. If I’m lucky these are planned in advance, but it feels like lately everything has been a last minute scramble. My wife’s work also has a somewhat irregular schedule with frequent evening events, though these are typically planned several months out, so are more predictable. Since we had a baby 9 months ago, balancing childcare with these demands has been tough. I do most of the daycare dropoffs and pickups, so anything outside of normal business hours requires some juggling. I recently had an overnight trip to another state rescheduled no less than five times in two weeks, only for the client to finally settle on a date I could not be out of town, and someone had to cover for me. Another time I had a meeting I thought I could call into, but found out last minute actually required driving to a different office several hours away in the early morning. Sometimes it’s things no one can control like the weather or equipment breaking, but they still add to the overall stress of the situation.

    Given some advance notice and flexibility, I can usually find a way to fit it all in, it’s more about the last minute changes. Just to make it more fun, my wife had a concussion a month ago which has really affected her (doing much better, going to be ok, but a much more major injury than I realized!). This has thrown our routine and scheduling into some disarray given the limitations she has been working with, and made it even harder to deal with last minute changes. We have some help from family, but they have their own lives, and it sucks to keep making and changing last minute plans.

    Luckily no one has ever given me any pushback for saying no, but I like the outdoor work, and it frequently allows me to work on more interesting projects. I should also mention I have a direct manager who broadly keeps an eye on my workload, but at any given time I could be doing work for 5-6 different project managers, so it’s not just one person to coordinate with, and it’s on me to manage my schedule on a daily basis. I guess I’m looking for advice on nicely reminding people that I need some heads up on scheduling and that I simply can’t do some days, and/or how to accept that this is just the nature of the job and sometimes I have to go with the flow (not my strong suit). I also feel bad saying no when it would be technically *possible*, just extremely inconvenient for my entire family, so any advice on how to determine an internal boundary for myself?

    1. BadWolf*

      Honestly, I think saying no (within reason) is pretty healthy for a job. I have had coworkers say yes to everything, then they’re swamped, fall behind, I have to check back in, I start guessing whether I really need their help or can avoid them. I feel bad when I find out I could have done something different and they didn’t tell me and just suffered through it.

      I’d rather they say, “Sorry, I can’t do that right now unless we get it prioritized above Other Thing.” Or “No, I don’t work on that, but I would check with Fergus.” (assuming of course, they’re still basically doing their job!)

      Plus, if your coworkers think having to make temporary adjustments for your wife right now is not a good reason for some “No” replies and a harder line on scheduling, then they’re jerks. I think most good coworkers would try to make some reasonable changes to help you out.

      1. Hobbes*

        That’s a good point, I’ve been significantly underworked at some points, so it’s hard for me to turn down work when it comes, but I may need to change my attitude about that.

        And to be fair, no one is being a jerk about the concussion, I haven’t actually told that many people, it just adds a layer to the background juggling I am doing.

  74. Recently Diagnosed*

    Good story to share. Recently, I have been feeling very down-and-out about work. Last year, I mentioned to my grandboss that I wanted to shift from my current department to marketing (he is the grandboss of both my current position and marketing). However, there was no room in the budget to add another person, so that was out of the question, although he was interested in the idea. Well, a year passes, and the department I’m in has no room for growth. Despite the fact that I’m the senior person, there has been no pay increase, even as my title changed. So, needing to feel like there was at least POSSIBILITY for growth, I applied to another department that I new had growth built into it. This would have been a lateral move. Well, again, due to budget restraints, even after the transfer was approved, it took FOUR MONTHS for my department to hire my replacement, which left me stuck. Well, this week, my grandboss called me into his office with the boss of the department I was going to be moving to. They tell me together that, while I am free to move to the new department as offered, my grandboss has arranged a competing offer: my dream position in marketing. Oh, and also a hefty raise. At the prospect of losing me, my grandboss advocated heavily to the higher-ups, and all my waiting has paid off.

    Also, my husband, who works in the same company as me in the IT side, was given a 30% raise as well. In one week, we increased our income a staggering amount. I am overjoyed and overwhelmed. Hard work and dedication really does come back to you sometimes.

    1. SpiderLadyCEO*

      Congratulations! I am so, so happy for you! I hope you both have a celebratory evening!

      1. Recently Diagnosed*

        We’re actually looking at gathering finances to visit my hubby’s brother and his family in Germany!

  75. SpiderLadyCEO*

    Does anyone have any tips for business trips as an ambivert? I’m flying out Thursday night to my office’s headquarters for training and to meet all the staff (I am one of many remote workers) and I’ll be rooming with a girl who I have never met. We’ve only ever spoken briefly on the work Slack. During the time I’m there, I won’t have a single minute alone, and Friday afternoon I’ll be back on a plane. Any tips on how to cope?
    *Note: I am also a v. v. anxious flier.

    1. Still Looking*

      I try to find moments that I can steal to off by myself, perhaps during a break or a meal time or in the airport. In this case it sounds like your suffering will be time limited. If you can’t escape even briefly keep your eye on the prize. In 24 hours you will be back home! Definitely bring a book or music to listen to or whatever it is that you can enjoy doing by yourself for the flight and the wait at the airport. You do not have to wait at the gate with your co-workers. You can wander off to browse the bookstore or find an empty gate where you can sit away from the crowd. I do that all the time. Then I just move to my gate closer to boarding.

      1. SpiderLadyCEO*

        I just realized I put the time in wrong – flying out Wednesday night! Two nights with new girl. But I will definitely be grabbing all the little moments I can! I have a book I am looking forward to, so that will help a bit.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      Can you find time to walk? Take an extra five minutes in the bathroom? Slip away during a coffee break to “look at the area” and then walk for about ten minutes by yourself? These are all tricks I’ve used.

  76. Still Looking*

    I posted on last week’s open thread about a company that was being weirdly indecisive about a hiring decision. I had multiple interviews, and they spoke to all of my references, and was then asked to wait another month while they brought additional people in. This doesn’t seem weird, except that I had been previously updated on numerous occasions on the search process and given a timeline that seemed pretty firm. After the last candidate had completed interviews, they were undecided and moved the tops folks to a round of reference checking.

    It was disappointing and frustrating, and I largely feel like at the point where you’ve interviewed with many different people in a few rounds AND have spoken to multiple references, a thumbs up or down decision on any given candidate should be pretty clear. At worst, maybe you’re torn between more than one and have to find some way to break the tie, but that’s not what happened. What happened is they wanted another few weeks to bring other people into the mix.

    Okay, as someone pointed out, there could be a late applicant who looked perfect that they decided to fast track for consideration, but I found out this week that not what happened. A recruiter reached out to me early this week about a new job she thought I’d be perfect for. It was the same job. I found postings less than 24 hours old. They were actively soliciting new applicants. Pardon the caps, but apparently I have been asked to wait FOR PEOPLE THAT DO NOT YET EXIST.

    They must really not be into any of us who interviewed in that first batch, despite the long process, and the reference checking. I went from general disappointment to spitting nails. Employers/hiring managers/recruiters – please do not ever do something like this to anyone. At the point where you have invested all that time and money and have take up the valuable time of other people who called for references, you owe the candidate an honest declination. At that point the candidate is expecting an offer OR a rejection. They are prepared for either.

    It would have been disappointing to find out I did not get the job, but that’s a normal part of the process. I know I will not get every job I apply to, and while a reference check is an encouraging sign, it’s never a done deal. I would have been disappointed, but then never given it a second thought. In this case, I feel like I was deliberately mislead, maybe even lied to, and definitely disrespected. I don’t expect to ever hear from them again much less that I’m still being considered, but if for some bizarre reason they come back to me, I have real reservations about working for them. Maybe it was unintentional that the whole thing was handled poorly, but the whole experience just screams RUUUUNNNN!!

    I’m disappointed and so angry, but I have a lot of interest in my resume, and that’s what I am focusing on now.

    2. It’s All Good*

      Ugh. I hope soon you get a call and earn an offer from a solid company, this company sucks.

  77. KayEss*

    Am I following up on contact from recruiters wrong? I’m unemployed and searching right now and got two voicemails in the past week (last Friday and then Tuesday) from different recruiters about positions they are looking to fill and wanted to talk with me about. I called back promptly, expressed interest, and proposed two times (each) for the latter half of the week that worked for me… and got completely ghosted. No “can we reschedule,” not even any acknowledgement that I’d returned their calls. Nada.

    Should I be giving a week+ of lead when I propose a time? Just express interest and let them set the schedule? Most of the positions these places try to sell me on are incredibly mediocre, so I’m not very interested in spending a lot of effort chasing them down and doing their jobs for them.

    1. Still Looking*

      It sounds like the recruiters are doing it wrong not getting back to you. I work with a lot of recruiters in my search, and they generally are quick to respond when they are really interested. I also find it very easy to connect mostly through email. They are quick to get back, even if the times I say I am available to talk by phone don’t work for them. Don’t bother with these people who don’t get back to you. Recruiters get paid when they have a successful placement. They have every reason to respond quickly. Failure to do so can literally cost them!

    2. SpaceNovice*

      No, they’re definitely doing it wrong–some recruiters are in contracting companies that expect them to spam dozens of people for one job even if they don’t meet the qualifications. It might be a little weird suggesting times for them–I might suggest that you give out your email in the reply back so you can schedule a time without the phone tag.

  78. LouiseM*

    The conversation about relocating to Saudi Arabia for work got me thinking: which country would everyone most and least like to visit for a six-month work project, and why? People seemed to have some strong opinions, LOL!

    Personally, I would most like to visit Beirut because I’ve read several novels set there, and would least like to visit Tokyo because my ex lives there.

    1. Curious Cat*

      So interesting!
      I would most like to work in Jordan because that’s where my family is from/where some of my family still is, but would least like to work in Canada…it’s just too close to the US and wouldn’t be different enough! (Also least like to work in Antarctica, which in my field is not likely at all, but I had a friend in the Navy stationed there for 3 months and he haaated it).

        1. grace*

          Same! I think 6 months would be about the right amount of time, but I’d definitely need to be somewhere that English is at least understood vaguely well – my college French and HS Spanish won’t cut it at first. :-)

          Saudi Arabia would be my least likely to want to go, because of the women restrictions and because I really can’t stand deserts anyway — the lack of anything green gets to me even in LA.

    2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I’d want to get assigned to somewhere in Scandinavia. Iceland would probably be my first choice since I’d love to meet the portions of my extended family who still live there.

      I also spent a while living in Spain and I’d dearly like to go back.

      As for least desirable… that’s heavily delineated by me being LGBT and not wanting to travel places where I’m going to be at a substantial risk because of it. That’s an unfortunately large portion of the world :(

    3. Bea*

      I’m not going anywhere with women and LGBTQ issues.

      I would love to go to England or Canada if it’s in the Atlantic region because I have friends over there.

      I don’t want to go anywhere I’ll deal with a language barrier, I’m old and struggle with English enough. I fear being the dumb American who can’t communicate fluently enough in the native language!

    4. Emily S.*

      I would love to spend time in Scandinavia – maybe Sweden or Norway. They just seem like wonderful places to live, despite the cold.

      I’d want to stay far away from the Middle East.

    5. The Original Flavored K*

      I’d love to work in Spain (especially Seville), Japan (esp. Kyoto), Iceland (no particular city). Sweden and Norway are also on the list, although tbh anyplace colder than Kyoto will probably make me want to carry an electric blanket around everywhere.

      There is probably not enough money in the world to entice me to move to Ireland or other countries with strong anti-abortion biases. America’s anti-abortion bias is dangerous enough as it is; I’m not about to go places where it’s gonna be worse.

    6. Ann O.*

      Morocco or Taiwain, for me. I used to do research in Morocco, and I miss it terribly (also my Moroccan Arabic has deteriorated, which makes me sad). I have family connections in Taiwan.

      I’d actually be open to Saudi Arabia under the right circumstances.

    7. Aphrodite*

      Ooh, good question. But I have many more than one so I am going to try to condense them (but they are in no particular order).

      Definite YES!
      France, Belgium, Finland, Norway, Sweden, England, Netherlands, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Germany, Italy.

      Absolutely NO!
      Any country in the Middle East, any country in the Far East, Mexico, Central America, most of South America.

    8. Erika22*

      I think there are few places I wouldn’t go for a short-term project (outside of war zones, that is) – I honestly think I’d even be willing to try Saudi Arabia if it wasn’t six months, just to experience what it’s like being a woman there. Though I think I’d blend in fairly well there; if I was clearly not Middle Eastern (rather than vaguely something that could be M.E.) I think I’d feel more uncomfortable just because I wouldn’t want to stick out so much.

      A friend’s gf is currently in Kuwait for work, and she apparently enjoys it enough to want to extend her two-year project for another year! (So of course when he talks about how sad he is that they’re long distance, I’m sympathetic, but inside I’m happy that she’s doing what’s important to her).

    9. Technical_Kitty*

      I’d like to work in Scandanavia for a bit. I’m not a hot weather person and after being in Iceland for a vacation I’m curious about how they live in Scandanavian countries. Turkey is another country that would be interesting but definitely not right now.

    10. Overeducated*

      I was just talking to a friend who moved to Vancouver, so western Canada! Like others, Scandinavia. I am also very curious about Armenia, Mongolia, and Kyrgyzstan, but those would be hard with the language barriers.

    11. Fresh bread*

      I worked France for a year. It was great, and I got around ok with English and SchoolFrench. Six months would have been too short for me to get acclimatized.

    12. Working Hypothesis*

      Saudi Arabia is higher on my “never under any circumstances” than anywhere on the planet except possibly North Korea. I’m not only female and feminist and secular and not straight, I’m also Jewish — pretty much everything I can’t openly be in Saudi Arabia and still be safe. No, thank you.

      Top of my list: Switzerland, maybe. Or Ireland. Or New Zealand.

  79. Comp newbie*

    Does anyone know of good resources (website, book, webinar, anything) for learning about compensation practices? Like the basics of compression reviews, salary bands, etc.? The SHRM website has been unhelpful so far, and our comp person quit without notice and apparently saved all his work on his desktop, which was wiped, instead of a shared folder, and I don’t have much experience in this. Thank you in advance!

    1. krysb*

      If your job types/titles are decently standardized, I would use the Bureau of Labor Statistics’s data. You can look at wages for job titles down to your nearest metropolitan area. Payscale can be helpful, but their datasizes are too small, in my opinion.

  80. The Original K.*

    I have two interviews next week! I think I have a first choice (just based on commute – one would barely BE a commute), but I’m excited to have the interviews regardless.

  81. Coqui*

    No advice needed, just venting about weird things from my toxic IT job:
    * Older, male co-worker has started calling me “baby”, “babygirl”, and asking for hugs. Nope.
    * My report directly ignored my instructions twice, and when I counseled him he said he just didn’t feel like doing it that way. I took care of the issue, but my boss won’t fire him so we have this conversation regularly. I’ve taken away much of his job duties because he can’t complete them correctly and he complains about being bored. His own fault.
    * Lateral co-worker raised his voice because I borrowed an ethernet cable, without getting his expressed permission, from a pile of 2,000 cables in a shared storage container in his office. He then called me a thief and said I needed to enter a formal request if I wanted to take an ethernet cable to complete my work.
    * I’ve been here 2 years and was denied additional training in favor of training a new employee who has been hired but hasn’t started working yet. My training would have been directly related to my job duties where their training is something they want this new employee to have “just in case everyone dies in a bus crash.”
    * My favorite: A co-worker in another department decided to share their password with me when I was working on his computer issues, and it was a reference to his genitals.

    I’m actively job searching.

    1. Bea W*

      I have only read as far as the first bullet point, but just have to respond – GROSS!!!

      I will finish reading when after I’ve rinsed the vomit out of my mouth.

      1. Coqui*

        It’s SO bad. Yesterday he said “Have you had your hug today?” and I said “Yep! Got one from my boyfriend!” and walked off.

        2. BadWolf*

          Sometimes a good, “Please don’t touch me.” (or drop the please) can jar a not-total-jerk out of a stupid idea.

    3. CBE*

      That’s BAD. Please be very honest in an exit interview and post about your experience on GlassDoor.

    4. BadWolf*

      AHHHHHHHHHH.

      You deserve a new office job.

      On a side note, is Older male coworker watching too many Criminal Minds reruns? Penelope and Morgan(? — forgot his name) used to do creepy “Baby Girl” not appropriate for the real world name calling).

    5. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      So, first, SO MUCH ICK!

      Second, the guy who shared his password was an idiot on two levels. First, for sharing his password with anyone, and second for letting you know how NSFW it was.

      Third, good luck on the job search!

    6. This Daydreamer*

      Wow. Congratulations on not strangling someone with that “stolen” cable.

      Sexual harassment via password. What will they think of next?

    7. June*

      You could go the evil route and have your direct report’s hug the old guy as often as the old guy asks. Plus direct report is now only allowed to answer to baby or babygirl. Also give direct report all of the crappy jobs you can find. Janitorial forgot to take out trash last night? Well, guess you better get on that.
      Lateral co-worker – start borrowing equipment you might need for a job when he is not around. Leave at your desk in plain view. When he asks for equipment back, look him directly in the eye and ask for his formal request. Might even take stuff that you don’t even need.
      Training – sign up for training and just show up. Let mgt figure out how to pay for it later. My bad – I thought you said I could attend this training.
      Yucky password – you are not sure why but that guy seems to be having computer problems. Maybe you forgot to reset something…

      Or take the “I am going to manage the heck out of you and take care of me” route by giving direct report his project back to him repeatedly until he gets it right. Write him up every time he does not follow instructions. Don’t even mention it to the boss, just manage.
      Ask lateral co-worker to see the policy on formal requests for equipment. Or make your own formal request sheet, get the equipment you need, and place the completed form on his desk.
      Training – take time during the workday to watch training videos. Don’t ask to take the time off, just train.
      Yucky password – go to HR to complain about the sexual harassment.

  82. Carmen*

    I keep making excuses for not applying to new jobs:
    –I don’t want to get too excited about it because I probably won’t get it anyway
    –I noticed the posting too late, so there’s no point (even though there’s no deadline)
    –My current job is a known quantity and pays well, so I should just stay here even though I’m bored

    Can someone give me a kick in the pants and tell me why I should apply to jobs even when they might be a reach?

    1. Bea W*

      The way I look at it is if I apply and don’t get the job or it’s too late, then I’m no worse off than I am now. Nothing changes. Life goes on. It’s minimal risk, and for sure you will definitely not get any job you don’t apply to. Just do it.

    2. beanie beans*

      Beeeecause you won’t get any job if you don’t apply for it?

      I feel ya. I’m in the exact same bored job and feel both desperate to get a new one but losing motivation in the job search process (been searching for about a year). It’s exhausting applying for jobs. A couple of weeks ago I spent an hour or so applying for a good looking posting, submitted it Sunday night and got the rejection Monday morning at 7:45.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      Even if the post is old, an employer might have been thinking about additional positions. I’ve had this happen before. Employers that accept open submissions are also a thing!

      Being bored is being bored. Look for a challenge that’ll grow your skills and make you worth more money.

    4. NW Mossy*

      As a hiring manager currently staring into an applicant pool that’s woefully short of candidates that tick most/all of the boxes, please apply! I’d be much happier hiring a candidate who applied well after the position was opened but is a great match than someone who pounced on it but was sub-par.

      1. Bea W*

        This happened all the time at my last job. We’d have positions open for 6+ months in some cases due to the bone dry pool of qualified applicants. I know for myself, if I see a posting I assume that job is still open. Worst case scenario, someone forgot to take it down but now you’re information is in their system to find for other openings or a new opening. Never hurts to apply even if the posting is old.

    5. NoodleMara*

      I got my current job by posting to a reach job. I didn’t get the reach job but the hiring manager recommended me for another position that suits me perfectly. Chuck as many resumes out as you can. It is exhausting but you really should do it. I also got interviews for jobs that I wasn’t 100% sure I was qualified and it was very good interview practice.

    6. TootsNYC*

      why I should apply to jobs even when they might be a reach?

      Because who do you think you are, to decide that the hiring manager isn’t going to be interested in you?

      The hiring manager had eyes, and a brain. If they think that you are too much of a reach, THEY can decide to not call you for an interview.

      It’s kind of arrogant to make that decision for them.

      (did that help? I was sort of being facetious, but I’m actually also meaning it)

  83. NotAManager*

    There are two people that do my job, me and my other half who I’ll call John. I’ve been doing the job for 5+ years, he’s been doing it for 1.5 years. There’s a two year “training period” for this job but at this point he should have seen all the different content and just needs a bit more hand holding in executing tasks. My issue is that he doesn’t seem to step up to the plate as often as he should with incoming work so if I don’t grab it, some things just end up sitting around till either I say something to him or the other internal group that generated the request to begin with follows up saying they need it asap (which means I have to do the work because my turn around time is so much faster than his). I’m not John’s manager or team lead, but he does lean on me for knowledge based stuff or “does this sound right?” type questions. I’m fine with being an institutional knowledge source but I feel like sometimes I’m also his team lead prodding him to do xyz task.

    Do I bring this up with my boss and if so how? I don’t want to come across as a tattle tale, but I’ve heard people in other departments say that they don’t expect quick turn around times from John ever, even on basic tasks.

    Gotta run, apologies for any typos.

    2. TootsNYC*

      I agree–yes, tell the boss. This is a problem for the department, right? So the person in charge of the department needs to be aware. Frame it this way.

  84. Sally-O*

    I’m super annoyed because I’ve been checking my dream org’s website every month for over a year for good job postings, but I guess I slipped, because I just saw the PERFECT posting that went up 30+ days ago. Is it too late to apply? Is there anything I can say in my submission email to explain that I would have applied right away if only I had noticed it? Don’t want them to think I’m a slacker.

    1. Temperance*

      It’s not too late to apply, and I don’t think that you’ll get dinged as a slacker for not applying immediately. FWIW, I would probably find it very strange if someone reached out to me and apologized for not applying sooner and let me know how much they wanted an in at the org.

    2. fposte*

      If it’s up, it’s reasonable to apply. There’s no need to explain why you didn’t apply earlier.

    3. workin for the man*

      Apply as long as it’s still open! And don’t apologize – there’s no reason for them to think you’re a slacker!

    4. Liza*

      If you’re still within the deadline and/or the ad is still live, I can’t imagine it making any difference at all. I once found a brilliant vacancy for a paid PhD placement with only 40 minutes until the closing time, and I had to rush my (first ever academic) application. I submitted 20 minutes late. I also failed to attach a covering letter because I thought a covering letter was just a couple of paragraphs on “these are my strong points and this is why I want this job” (not so in academic application). Three days later they contacted me and asked me to reapply with my covering letter, with a deadline that was a full 4 days after the vacancy closed. I wasn’t shortlisted but they made it clear they wanted to include me. It’s not going to be the case with all vacancies, but if you’re a reasonably strong candidate then being a little over the cut off isn’t always an immediate no. And if an ad is still live, then you can probably be pretty confident they are still accepting applications, and won’t care/know when you applied.

    6. beanie beans*

      Apply! I know for a lot of jobs they don’t look at the applications until the posting is closed, so they don’t even know which candidates applied on the first day vs the last. Especially if it gets filtered through HR before going on to a resume review committee.

    7. TootsNYC*

      also, even if it’s too late, what do you have to lose?

      I wouldn’t think someone was a slacker; I’d just assume they had only decided to start looking quite recently.

  85. Savannnah*

    I’m curious If anyone else has had this experience and what they eventually did next.
    I’ve had steady employment since leaving grad school, which I did right after university. For the last 8 years I’ve spent almost all of my energy and time focusing on work, am a fairly driven person and have worked 50-60 hour jobs, the kind where you boss texts you at 5 am and you’re always on, even when you’re on vacation. I’ve really thrived in this type of environment and like being in a field where my work directly and indirectly impacts peoples lives around the world. My husband has a similar job and is away 2 -4 weeks out of the month for work. We recently made the really difficult decision to move across the country for my husbands promotion and transfer and I had to quit my job. I was very worried about being unemployed and how that would affect my identity and feelings of worthiness both in my marriage and with the world at large.
    That was about 2 months ago and I have to say that all I feel is that putting myself in a situation where I have to be someplace 5 days a week for 8-10 hours and on call 24/7 seems like complete insanity. I am job hunting but I have almost less than zero desire to go back to work in any big way and I have no feelings of that achievement drive that fueled me for so long. I’m really surprised by this, pretty confused and its making me question what I should really be thinking about next. I’ve been thinking about finding a part time job but I have no idea what that would look like and if I’d be happy with it and for how long. I’m not sure whats feasible income wise either but I did tell my husband it might take me a year to find a career job in our new state so we’ve budgeted for that.

    1. Ali G*

      I hear you!
      I left a toxic job in September of last year. Luckily I had 6 months severance. I literally couldn’t even comprehend working for the rest of 2017. I spent a lot of time finally moving us into the house we moved into back in Jan 2017 and lots of other “life stuff” you usually can’t do Mon-Fri during the day. It was glorious! I also took some adult ed classes to figure out what I want to do next.
      In January I started to really consider working again, but I am trying to change career paths, so it is taking longer than expected. We are OK money-wise, but I had to go my husband’s health insurance, which is an added cost.
      I am working part time at a local non-profit and have been volunteering since January, so the gap on my resume is only a little over 3 months.
      I would take some time, if you can, to see what kinds of jobs are available to you, and have an honest conversation with your husband about your future salary expectations.
      My husband knows I am not interested in picking up my old career, and there are financial tradeoffs to that. But getting the opportunity to HAVE A LIFE is so much more important. We have set a min salary threshold for me that works for us, and I am now feeling better about job hunting, and actively doing so.
      Good luck to you!

    2. AnotherJill*

      I worked as a software developer for many years – working sometimes 70-80 hours a week doing a lot of interesting projects. Then I had a situation go a little toxic and left to an academic position, taking a severe pay cut, but loving the summers off and daily flexibility and pretty much managing my own time. After that, I could never ever foresee myself going back to a regular gig.

      After that I retired (so, yeah, old :), but if I weren’t ready for that I could easily see myself either studying in a new field or taking a part time job that did not require any particular drive.

      I think that your feelings are completely normal, but while you sort out the what do I want to do questions, taking even a fairly mundane part time job is a good way to feel like you are contributing and gives you some time to maybe ease back into the workforce.

    3. dr_silverware*

      Yeah–I left an intense software development job for a very very very veeeerrrry lowkey software development job. I’ve actually gotten my drive back, but I’m still in the lowkey job, which is not a terrible position to be in–I can work hard when I want to but I don’t have to be on all the time. But it took a while to get that back.

  86. HRH The Duke of Coriander and Gomasio*

    Found out Monday I didn’t get the out of state job I did 3 interview for. I’ve applied to several other jobs this week, though.

  87. rosenstock*

    the young girl who sits next to me has a boss who’s about 5 years older than her (i don’t work with either of them) who spends at least an hour every day at her desk so they can flirt with each other and it’s freakin gross, y’all.

    1. Lumen*

      I can see people flirting a lot at work as annoying, and I think bosses flirting with their employees is terrible behavior on their part no matter how the employee responds.

      However, I’m also struggling to imagine someone who is old enough to have a desk job but young enough that a 5 year age difference seems ‘gross’ and their coworker sees them as a ‘young girl’.

      1. rosenstock*

        she’s 21 and i estimate he’s in his late 20s. the age gap is totally fine (i wouldn’t blink at that in real life), the gross part is sitting here and listening to it :) it’s a lot of fake insults, fake incredulity, and then some weird mushy cooing to ‘make up’ from that. it’s really distracting.

        1. Joan*

          Not sure why you are referring to a 21 year old woman as a girl, or why you’re bringing up the supposed age gap which you now say is fine. There’s something pretty gross about both of those.

          Their behaviour sounds frustrating, certainly. If it’s distracting, have you tried asking them to cut it out?

          1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

            Agreed! I’m in my 20s at an organization where almost everyone is old enough to be my parent or grandparent and I immediately lose respect for anyone who makes my youth into a big deal. Obviously I’m a qualified professional or my manager wouldn’t have hired me, and if it’s discrimination for me to talk about an older person’s age why is it fair game for them to talk about mine?

  88. CF*

    I need some resume advice. After 3 years working up my way up, my old job ended in January(company restructured, so it was a natural transition I saw coming). I decided to take this as a new life opportunity, and moved to a different city that has more opportunities. I hadn’t had success with job searching long-distance, and now that I’m here I’ve been applying and networking with people in my field– however, without much luck (I suspect because the last job on my resume was in my prior city).
    I’ve recently started working as a temp at an organization unrelated to my field, to earn money and get some more job experience in this city. However, this is lower level work than I’ve done in the past, and a bit of a demotion (though obviously I’m really happy to be employed!).
    Should I put this temp job on my resume? I’ve only been in it a month, and only am guaranteed a position for 2, so it feels too short– that said, it actually establishes that I live in this city now. Appreciate any advice!

    1. zora*

      Yes, you can put it on your resume, specifiying that it is a temp job, so it won’t seem weird that it is so short.

      Also, are you being explicit in your cover letter that you have moved to New City? Something like “I just relocated to New City and was excited to see your job posting.” or something. It should be very clear on your resume AND cover letter that you actually live here now, so they don’t have to guess.

  89. Anonymous48*

    I have a tricky situation. I was given permission last year to telework from HomeTown because of some difficult personal circumstances. HomeTown has been great for my mental health; however, the job market is dismal here. A few weeks after I moved (about a year ago), my very supportive management team was laid off due to a restructuring. More restructuring now looks like it’s in the works, and I’m worried it will leave my jobless in a terrible area for jobs with a lease I can’t get out of. I have little to no relationship with my current manager. Is there a way to bring up whether it wouled be a good idea for me to move back to HeadquartersTown, where the job market would be much, much, much easier in the event of more restructuring/layoffs, without coming out and asking “should I move back so you can lay me off from there?”

    1. SoCalHR*

      Couldn’t you just move back to HeadquartersTown when/if you get laid off? Why jump the gun and leave HomeTown while the telework gig is still available? Do you have to make a decision about your lease renewal soon? (plus breaking a lease or going month-to-month could end up being worth it).

      1. Anonymous48*

        Yes, my lease is up for renewal. A month to month is not an option (and housing is competitive in this area, so it’s not an option for any place I’ve heard of outside of extended stay motels). Breaking my lease in the event of a layoff would not be an option either.

        1. Anonymous48*

          (I should say, housing is competitive in the sense that there is a steady enough market to make month to month unpalatable for landlords. Not competitive in the being able to count on a subletter sense.)

          1. TootsNYC*

            would they go for a six-month one? And “unpalatable” is not the same as “I won’t do it, even if a reasonable tenant asks me nicely.”

        2. Jennifer*

          Ugh, I live somewhere like that too. If your lease is up for renewal, maybe you should just assume it’s better to move back to HQtown and do it on your own without counting on an answer from your job? If bad news is in the wind, it usually doesn’t go away so you might as well start planning for a layoff now.

  90. Rebecca*

    My company hired a person in another country to monitor our customers there. It’s a manager’s position. This person has zero experience in our industry, I suspect this might be his first full time job, and it’s been difficult for me as someone who not only has to train him but then report to him. I was told to be thorough when I explain things so we can get him up to speed. This is all OK with me, especially since I have no desire to go to this country for any reason, let alone work there. BUT…

    I learned second hand that he complained to my grand boss that my emails are too long and confusing, and that he doesn’t understand what I’m telling him.

    1. He never told me this. All of his responses to me when I asked if I could clarify further or if he needed to call to discuss were the same “understood” or “thank you”. There was zero indication of any issue on his side.

    2. My emails are brief, to the point, with clear bullet points, explanations as to what the issue is, what we do to correct or prevent it, and the final resolution, and more importantly for him, because he has zero background, why things are done this way. In fact, I’ve gotten compliments over the years regarding my clear communication skills.

    To say that I am miffed is an understatement. Here’s someone with less than 2 months of exposure to our industry throwing me under the bus. I’ve worked at this for over 30 years. If he had such a problem with the way I was communicating with him, he could have easily picked up the phone, sent me a skype, called for a meeting with my manager, but he went straight to grand boss. I need to say that grand boss said he was way off base, because she knew that is not how I communicate.

    Just had to vent. And as an aside, this is not a good way to treat someone who knows what you need to learn to keep your manager’s job. Grrrr.

  91. NeedSalaryHelp*

    I’m currently (somewhat) happily employed, but was contacted out of the blue by a recruiter with an opportunity that, on paper, seems an even better fit for my skills than my current job. I work in a pretty niche area and recently switched industries. However, I wouldn’t mind switching back to my previous industry. I did find the work more interesting. Even better, the low end of the salary range quoted by the recruiter is $15k more than I’m making now. The high end would double my salary.

    My fear though is this… I’m in my late 20s so just barely breaking into mid-level. I’m not too experienced with salary negotiations and to be honest, if I had been asked to name my minimum, I probably would have said currently salary + $10k. So, I guess I’m not sure how to approach the salary question when/ if it comes up. Online salary surveys (pay scale, salary.com, Glassdoor, etc) are pretty useless since it’s such a niche area. Haven’t found anything that quite matches what I do. Any thoughts on how to tackle when the time comes?

    1. Lumen*

      Networking might help here. If you can find people in your industry, but not people you work with immediately, and ask them some salary questions privately, it may help you figure out where your range should be.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      Ask for the mid-high end of the range or at least 10% over the offer, if you want to negotiate. Is the recruiter internal to the company or external? If they are internal, then negotiate. If they are external, ask them to push for the mid-to high range–it’s in their best interest to get you a higher salary.

  92. Thoth*

    Here’s a question I’m struggling with at the moment. I’m currently a paralegal with 11 years of experience at a small law firm (3 attorneys, one contract associate, another paralegal, and firm administrator.) I’ve been going to school full time as well as working full time for close to two years to finish out my bachelor’s in paralegal studies. I have a job next week at a very large utility company for a paralegal position. I know I’m going to get asked about salary range, but it hard to say considering it’s not exactly comparing apples to apples when considering salary ranges, and I can’t find a truly reliable source to see what the utility company has paid in the past, and I’ve looked/asked around and just can’t really find anything that I’d consider accurate.

    Any suggestions?

  93. Coqui*

    And now for a question:

    I share an office and job duties with a male co-worker who listens to my conversations with co-workers, direct reports, etc. and interjects his opinions without being invited into the conversation. Sometimes he will just turn around in his chair and watch us talk, his eyes flitting between me and the person i’m talking to. He is known for interrupting meetings just so he can pop his head in and pretend to have something important to say so he can figure out what people are doing. He’s told me before that he was jealous of the amount of private meetings I had with my supervisor dealing with advanced job duties. My supervisor hates how he interrupts (the offices are glass so if he sees me in a meeting with my supervisor he will stand at the window and stare at us or knock on the door and tell me something irrelevant that could have waited) but supervisor has never bluntly tackled the issue, and only makes comments about it after he leaves (“He always has to interrupt when he sees you in here. He’s so nosey.”) He has been so bold where he has wiggled his way into a conversation with my boss and our grandboss by standing and watching them talk, then adding his own thoughts without being asked.

    The issue in question: My direct report will come to me for guidance or have a question or I’ll need to give them feedback and co-worker will take over the conversation for me. An example will be an intern asking me a question on changing a BIOS setting, I’ll respond, intern will respond, and co-worker will pipe up and give him advice as I’m opening my mouth to speak. What are some good ways to shut this down and say “Excuse me, this is my conversation and I didn’t invite you” without sounding childish? He has a horrible temper and as I have to share an office with him I try to keep things civil, but I’m also feeling incredibly disrespected when someone is talking to me and he butts in without being asked.

    1. HR Recruiter*

      If he turns and states, I would stop and ask what is wrong because he is just staring. Be a little over dramatic like why in the world are you staring at us. To point out this is not normal behavior.
      When you are talking to your direct report, I’d say something like “I know your trying to help but I really need to direct my intern.” Make it about you being the supervisor and you need to be giving the instruction.
      Whereas if he jumps in a casual conversation you are having with a coworker, I don’t think there’s much you can do there. Just face it that, that’s just a weird quirk of his and internally eye roll.

    2. Casual Dave*

      What would happen if your reports listened to him, then turned to you and pointedly said : Ok Boss, what do You want me to do?

      I’m thinking there’s a niche in the market for social assassin temps.
      They have a cover job – the filing backlog – but actually they are there to deliver a Very Special Public Message to particular person(s)

      1. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

        Love this! I wish there were upvote buttons. But barring Casual Dave’s social assassin temps suggestion, it doesn’t sound like anyone is taking him seriously so if you can actually pull it off, try gently ribbing him on it if you think you can get away with it: “Oh Fergus, there you are again.” “Hi Fergus, are you feeling lonely–did you need some attention?” “Geez Fergus, people can’t have private conversations anywhere near you, can they?”

        Ok that last one was a bit aggressive. But call him out on it whenever it affects you by just naming the behavior. “Fergus, you are staring.” “Fergus, you are eavesdropping.”

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      The problem is that your supervisor knows he’s a bore and isn’t doing anything about it. Push back on your supervisor. Ask them how they would like you to handle the bore. Otherwise when he interrupts, stare like he’s grown a third eye on his forehead. When he’s done turn back to your intern and turn completely away from him and pick your conversation back up where you left off.

    4. LibbyG*

      Do you think you could give him a flat-hand “stop” gesture, at least for when a question is directed to you? Like …

      Intern: I ran into a problem.
      Coqui: OK. What did you try?
      Intern: I tried A and B.
      Co-worker: Well what you need to do is …
      Coqui: [Stop gesture to coworker but with eyes on intern]. Intern, let’s go to your desk and sort this out.

      It might be harder for him to get temperamental about a silent gesture than a spoken script. If he confronts you later you can be all matter of fact about how it was a question addressed to you.

  94. workin for the man*

    Curious if anyone has experience transitioning from the public sector to the private sector and how you found the transition.

    I have a third interview with company that I’ve been excited about, but now that it’s getting closer and more real, I’m starting to panic. I’ve been working for the public sector for a total of 17 years, and I specifically want my next job to be faster paced with more accountability. But it’s starting to sink in that I’ve had it pretty good with consistent 40 hour work weeks and generous benefits. I’m afraid that my high performance in the public sector will be average or low performance in the private sector.

    Just curious if anyone has made a similar transition and how you’ve felt about it – positive or negative.

    1. HR Recruiter*

      Its going to depend on a lot on your field and the company. I went from private to public back to private. And there is for sure a transition period getting used to a new culture. There’s that with any change in employer but I think its a little more with that switch. To overgeneralize I’d say private sector really pushes management level and up to work more than 40 hours, requesting time off is more frowned upon etc. But then there are some companies that are totally about work life balance and aren’t like that at all. I would not be worried them thinking your performance would be less. If your a hard worker your a hard worker no matter where you work. But I would ask about scheduling, worklife balance, company culture, etc during the interview stage.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      I did this 5 years ago. It’ll feel like you are working on a different planet for a while. Especially the first time you enjoy the little perks like a vendor sponsored lunch. But the lack of transparency can drive you a little nuts.
      And a high performer is usually a high performer no matter where you are.

      1. workin for the man*

        Thank you both for the perspective. Definitely work life balance questions to be asked Monday!

        Master Bean – I think my concern about high performance comes from what I feel like is low expectations in both public sector jobs I’ve had. People are like “woooooahhhh she just did magic with this “pivot table” voodoo.” I think it just takes me less time to do the work that my coworkers do, and in the “real world’ most people are more at my pace. But maybe I’m off in that impression.

        1. Master Bean Counter*

          Pivot tables stump people in all industries. I over hauled overly complicated spreadsheets in my first post-government job. They said they were faced paced…. Turns out they were slower than the government on most things.
          Actually now that I think about it my second post-government job isn’t as fast paced as they said it would be either. The deadlines are a lot firmer in government work. In the private sector–there’s always more wiggle room.

          1. Bea W*

            Life long private sector data cruncher and my own colleagues are wowed by my pivot table voodoo magic! It’s so sad. Pivot tables are easy and wonderful.

            1. workin for the man*

              That’s really interesting perspective – thanks you guys!

              Pivot tables and keyboard shortcuts – they are amazing, it just cracks me up that the thing I’m trying to analyze is way more complicated, but when I’m walking someone through the analysis they are more awed by fancy Excel tricks! I’m like, “but wait – that’s not the part I had to use my brain for!”

              I think I’ll sleep better this weekend preparing for the (hopefully!) last interview next week with some of this in mind!

    3. Short & Dumpy*

      I went public – private – public. I think this is SO SO SO dependent on your particular situation and the companies/agencies involved that others’ experiences are almost meaningless.

      I found that I hated instability of private, the people I worked with as a fed were MUCH harder workers and more professional than the private world, there was a lot more pushing of rules like OT/hours-per-day violations, etc. Basically, I was entirely unimpressed with the entire private world EXCEPT (and it’s a huge except) for the pay.

      I can make more money…quite a bit more money…in private. But insurance is an ever moving target, so are hours, travel, raises, etc. The rest of my life means stability is more important to me. OTOH, a friend & coworker went govt to private and will never go back to govt. She adores the option of working ungodly hours on certain projects for OT, the higher pay in general, being able to 100% telework, etc. She doesn’t have the family obligations I do, own a home, have health issues, and so on.

  95. Perpetuum Mobile*

    Hi All,

    I am evaluating a job offer and have to respond by Monday EOB, so any words of advice will be sincerely appreciated!

    It is a somewhat weird situation, this company is wanting to hire me for a Business Analyst position for which I am very clearly overqualified but as they know it just as well as I do, they are actually giving me more money then I am sure they originally had budgeted for, de facto putting me into the next pay grade, that of a Sr Business Analyst. I stressed out numerous times during my interviews how important the career development is to me. I am sure this is what’s behind their decision to bump up their original budget – in which case, the offer makes sense.

    Now, the question. When they asked me how much I wanted, I gave them the range which I knew was too high for this position but I did it anyway. I said, “I know it’s likely more then you planned and you have a budget, and this particular role may not require all my skills and experience that I can bring to the table. But I have in mind $X to $Z range” ($10,000 span). They offered me exactly $X.

    I am torn if at this point I can/should negotiate knowing that they already offering more than their original budget? I obviously don’t want to insult them and have them pull the offer. On the other hand, I read that women tend NOT to negotiate at all and often leave money on the table as they don’t even try to ask for more.

    The other benefits are good and comparable to the industry standard. Plus there’s a performance bonus of 12-18%. I did have more PTO days at my last job but what these folks are offering is still not bad in terms of time off.

    So – should I try to negotiate for a few thousand dollars more, or better not push my luck?

    Thanks!

    1. SpaceNovice*

      Hmm, tough choice. You already asked them to raise their budget once, so asking them to raise it further might irritate them. They’re already sticking their neck out by increasing the budget, which is a good sign that they really want you. (Also, raises for next year would put it higher than $X.)

      Maybe negotiate for additional days off?

  96. GD*

    I’m also not a coffee drinker so the coffee drama in my office is so bizarre to me. For one thing, I am the closest to the kitchen so I get the joy of discovering that someone has put an empty pot on a hot burner on a regular basis.

    But also– YES to the coffee snobbery. We had budget issues one year and the office manager was forced to buy cheaper coffee. People made SUCH a fuss about it that they went back to buying the more expensive coffee. And then everyone complained about not getting raises… like… you might actually be drinking your raise haha.

  97. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

    To anyone that has conducting hiring from another country: how do you deal with timezones?
    Last month I applied for a job in my field. This week I was reached by their HR to schedule a tech screen. The problem was the screening is done from NY and I’m a couple of timezones behind, so my available hours didn’t match theirs. I went back and forth with HR, who insisted in doing it during their working hours, and in the end they asked someone at their local office to interview me. By the time we finally had the screening I had lost all interest in the position, which turned to be way different than advertised (45 hours a week instead of the standard 40 and no WFH, just to name a few).

    1. fposte*

      I’ll be curious to know what more internationally practiced people say to this. When we hire, the interview times we have are the interview times we have, and we expect the applicants to find a way to make those times work.

    2. AeroEngineer*

      I have done a few international interviews with around 6 hour time zone shifts, but I was lucky that the company was flexible enough and had dealt with international things like this before, so we were able to choose a time which was morning their time and afternoon mine so I could fit it in my schedule.

      I think both parties need to be a bit flexible with this, as it shouldn’t be a surprise that there will be a time change issue just from the CV or application. Of course it is up to the applicant to find some times during work hours of the company, even if that means it might be later or even earlier than they would want. I know other people who were even interviewed in person by a manager on the team on a business trip in their area.

      Personally, if this issue is known from the beginning and the company doesn’t make any effort at all at even acknowledging there is a time-change issue, even if it is an comment that there are only a couple of windows for an interview and they know it might be difficult, I would be pretty turned off.

  98. VeryAnonToday*

    Readers, would you hire the following person:

    – Was late to interview
    – Researched the wrong company and seemed surprised when they realised they weren’t interviewing for the company they researched which isn’t even based in the same COUNTRY as the one they were interviewing with
    – Showed zero interest in the job and the software when being shown what the daily duties of the job are
    – Spoke so softly we had to strain to hear him
    – Wasn’t aware the company would need to see his proof that he could legally work in our country and also proof of his accreditation and qualifications

    I ask because my sister-in-law called me today telling me that the company she works for has hired this person. I… can’t even. She had me at ‘and he researched the wrong company’ – I wouldn’t have continued the interview but apparently her company are desperate for staff. These flag red for me – what about you guys?

    2. SpaceNovice*

      … wow. Yes, those are all red flags. I most certainly wouldn’t have hired him. If they hire people like that, maybe that’s why they’re so desperate for staff (work environment impact).

      She might want to consider looking for a new job.

      1. VeryAnonToday*

        They recently got bought out so the new company now wants to expand and has changed how they hire, it seems. Anyone will do, so SIL says, and what’s worse is that she was on the interview panel, said ‘this guy is rubbish’ and they still hired him. Apparently the opinion of the person who would be his team lead is irrelevant.

        Mind you this is the company who hired someone who falsified his qualifications and worked in IT for years. My SIL has some horror stories of the stuff he did, including the time he told her that the remote Linux server she used wasn’t working because ‘it won’t run on an HP machine’. Okay then.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Oh no. The dreaded acquisition by an inept company that just makes acquisitions to stay alive.

          … I. What. Linux. HP. What.

          She really needs to polish off that old resume and leave if she can. It’s going to get steadily worse from here. Mind you, she’s already thinking of it if she’s calling you, but definitely confirming that these scenarios never improve.

          1. VeryAnonToday*

            Yeah, I told her she needs to leave. I think this has kind of cemented that. Too much stupidity has happened since the takeover and she’s been calling me at least once a week with something ridiculous.

            We’re in the same industry so if she does decide to jump I’ve got contacts who can give her a leg up or even a job. And I’m taking her out for lunch tomorrow so she can let it all out over beer and a burger. I’m glad I work for a relatively sane company with good hiring practices!

            1. SpaceNovice*

              You are a good sibling-in-law! I hope she decides to find a new position, regardless if it’s at your company or not. She definitely deserves better.

      1. zora*

        Yeah, they are going to regret this. It’s such a fallacy to say “a warm body is better than none.” sometimes it really isn’t. A bad employee can actually make your life much harder.

    5. Bea W*

      Were they desperate? Did the person have some kind of connection that got him the job? Were they all smoking crack when they decided to hire? Was this the last person on earth?

    6. Lindsay J*

      The only part of that that isn’t s huge red flag to me is the soft-spokenness, and for that it would depend on the job. It still could be a red flag.

      An applicant might be able to make up for one of those other things if they seemed like far and away the best candidate in other ways.

      But more than one of those would place them firmly into the “no” pile for me.

  99. NotImportant*

    No questions, just doing some venting.

    I had posted here last week about waiting for my personal belongings to be mailed to me after being laid off.

    I got my stuff! Only one thing came broken (it was smashed to pieces…it wasn’t super important to me so I’m not devastated, but it would have been nice if it hadn’t been obliterated).

    They didn’t send some of the office supplies I bought for myself (even though I specifically requested to get them back). It’s only like $20 worth of stuff, so not worth following up, but still annoying.

    There was also a few promotional/company-branded items everyone was given that I kept there to use and they didn’t send them. I honestly would have just thrown them away since I don’t want reminders of the company, but I thought it was weird that they wouldn’t include them.

  100. Burt's Knees*

    I think you all jinxed me because I, an LA resident, was reading through the commute thread and very smugly thought “Two hours each way isn’t a normal commute unless you let it be, people who do that are foolish! Just know what limits of a reasonable commute are and don’t accept jobs outside of it”.
    Today, I got asked to come in for a interview for a dream job that’s 30 minutes without trafficking, and 1:30-2:00 hours with traffic. My smugness is gone.

    2. Bea W*

      Nothing about commuting in LA is reasonable.

      I once sat in bumper-to-bumper traffic for 80 miles heading east out of LA. EIGHTY miles.

  101. Rookie Manager*

    Around a month ago I posted about a problem probationer… as an update he has now resigned! Thanks for the help on what to say to him when addressing the issues. A week after I extended his probabtion he came back to me with a resignation letter for *totally* unrelated reasons.

    As an aside I googled to find the right words to inform people he was leaving and came across an old AAM post with a slightly grumpy Alison! Anyway, I followed the suggested format and was congratulated on my tone and phrasing by my manager. So thanks Alison, yet again.

  102. SpaceNovice*

    Welp, I might be looking for a new job soon because this one is too far from home and I found out I’m being significantly underpaid for my experience.

    The thing is: I have severe hypothyroidism and often need a small heater to stay warm, even with proper hormone levels, a legal accommodation under the ADAA. My previous job was in a government office, and the facility manager there illegally denied me this accommodation, despite the low temperatures causing serious health problems and once sending me to the hospital. My current employer had no problem with it, of course. (I only bring the temps around me up to like 73ish if that matters.)

    How exactly do I screen employers to make sure they’re okay with a heater (I can’t risk being without unless the office is warmer), and when do I bring it up? I don’t want to risk the situation I had from my previous job.

    1. fposte*

      To be clear, there’s no advance dictate of what is or isn’t a reasonable accommodation; it may not have been illegal for your employer to say that a heater wasn’t doable. They were, however, required to engage in an interactive process with you to explore what reasonable accommodations could be made.

      For now, this is the kind of thing that comes up at the offer stage. “I have a condition that means I need to keep the temperature around me a little warmer than most offices provide. I’ve found a local heater to be the most effective way of doing that; my little oil-filled radiator has worked great at my current office. Will there be any problem with my doing that at LlamaCorp as well?”

      1. SpaceNovice*

        The offer stage–yes, that makes sense, thank you! I’ll ask then.

        Also: oh, no, it was definitely illegal; I just have to keep out details due to retaliation risks about how it got to that point, sob. It definitely doesn’t sound like it without the full details, I admit–it really doesn’t! The office manager knew it was illegal, though; they made sure I never caught wind of their name so that I couldn’t get them instantly fired. My bosses literally had terror in their eyes as they told me about the refusal to accommodate. Actual, honest to god, terror.

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, I can see how that would be, and I think you’re being really smart to want to get a read of the landscape before you move in.

          1. SpaceNovice*

            Yeah, I really don’t want to end up in that state again. Thank you for giving me the answer of what time to ask!

  103. Justin*

    So.

    My job overall is not very social, which, for me, someone who struggles with loneliness and social isolation, isn’t ideal. It’s a great job otherwise though, and frankly a “WORK HARD PLAY HARD” job wouldn’t be great either.

    A hanful of colleagues socialize, not outside of work at all but by chatting throughout the work day.

    At the same time, the sound of whispering bothers me. So, there are three colleagues who frequently stand together and whisper-chat somewhat near my desk (they sit nearby). So every day they chat, and the sspspspspspspsps sound is irritating. Just now they were chatting for nearly an hour.

    However, being a guy, and them all being women, I have assumed I’d come off weird and there’d be an odd gender dynamic at play if I asked them to stop (and I have headphones; we all do). On top of this, they are Clearly Not Working for more than an hour a day, which makes me think, “wtf” (although I can’t really say anything since I’m here posting in this thread).

    So I figured I’d just continue to ignore it, even though my wife said “This is a work distraction. Say something.”

    But just now our mutual boss (also a woman) strode over to them and basically said “get to work, come on now.” I’m not sure why this happened right now (this has been going on since I got here more than a year ago), but I’m glad I never had to say anything and also that it stopped (for now). It originally started because one was getting married and they were talking about wedding stuff (I’m not eavesdropping, they’re ten feet away; if it was private, there are many spaces we can use for personal calls and the like).

    So anyway, you can see, I hope, how my yes-I’m-in-therapy-for-my-fear-of-social-isolation issues are combining with my actually legit “this is a work distraction” facts. I’m just glad I didn’t have to come off as a guy who was going to have to ask a group of women to socialize less (I wouldn’t have framed it that way, but that’s how it might have come off).

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      I told the whisperer who sat across from me that if she really wanted a private conversation she needed to take it to another room. It might have helped that every time she started to whisper to another coworker I’d look up with an annoyed expression on my face.

  104. MaryB*

    I just applied for my dream job!! However, I didn’t receive a confirmation email when I submitted my application online. This was Sunday when I applied. Tuesday night, I emailed their HR (there was no hiring contact listed) to make sure they have received it. No reply! It’s Friday now and I’m anxious. Should I do anything else? Sit tight?

    1. Whoa*

      I would wait it out. Some systems don’t generate a confirmation email, and the email to HR is most likely buried at the bottom of a general inbox waiting to be addressed by someone. You’ve already reached out once, that should be enough. Anything more might be overkill. Good luck though, I hope you hear something soon!

      1. MaryB*

        Thanks for that confirmation! That’s what I was rationally thinking, but the anxious part of me was wanting to bug them more. It’s good to hear. Thank you! :)

  105. Cochrane*

    One of my old workmates is an area manager for a “lifestyle” clothing chain and shared this anecdote at our last get-together and I’m curious to know your thoughts.

    He oversees a territory of five stores and one of his store managers is going to receive an award and bonus for meeting certain goals, one of them being “shrink”, meaning keeping missing inventory to a minimum for those unfamiliar with retail-speak. A typical store will have about 5-10 percent of inventory as shrink (miscounting in inventory, clerical errors, shoplifting, etc). This one manager’s store has zero. They passed their store audit that year and that wasn’t an error. Needless to say, it’s unusual to have such a perfect record in retail like that. My friend the area manager began digging around and asking some of the line employees about how this is possible.

    Eventually, the truth came out: if any inventory went missing, all employees on that shift were fired. With the threat of collective punishment over their heads, the employees would pool their money together to “purchase” the missing item to put things back in balance. This being retail, nobody questions high turnover, so this manager has a lot of leeway in hiring and firing.

    Needless to say, my friend’s superiors in the head office are thrilled with this managers numbers and are probably unaware of how those numbers are achieved. This affects his bonus and makes him look good by extension. On the other hand, he’s uncomfortable with the idea of squeezing college kids to pay for the cost of doing business in retail and leaning toward having a sit-down with this manager. Trouble is, there doesn’t seem to be any policy against firing a whole shift of employees for “theft”, which is probably what the manager is going to say when pressed.

    Thoughts?

    1. Temperance*

      I would absolutely report it to corporate. Quit honestly, I think your friend is behaving unethically if he doesn’t report this manager’s actions, because shaking down minimum wage college students to pay for stolen merch is wrong. ESPECIALLY if the store manager isn’t chipping in, since he’s arguably equally at fault.

    2. Parenthetically*

      I… I am picking my jaw up off the floor. That is so, SO shady. This dude is basically coercing his employees on pain of firing to pay for shoplifted merchandise out of their own (probably) measly paychecks?! And getting a bonus out of the deal as well?!

      I think I’d want to see how many of those fired employees I could get to sign a letter to the head office.

      1. Parenthetically*

        Oh gosh, upon re-read it’s even worse. Yes, Cochrane, your friend is in dangerous territory if he doesn’t report that one of the people he oversees is extorting employees to pad his numbers. The mind boggles.

        1. BadWolf*

          That’s a good angle — he’s technically reporting incorrect numbers. What else is he fudging?

          1. Cochrane*

            That may be tough to prove since the store passed their audit. From a bookkeeping perspective, the shrink was “corrected” and never booked as a loss.

            I’m sure it’s unheard-of for retail, but if you tied a bonus to turnover/employee retention, this practice would stop cold. Bottom line , if you tie any metric to a persons monetary gain, you open the door to all sorts of “creative management”.

      2. Cochrane*

        As completely scummy as I find this, it’s diabollicaly brilliant. There’s no paper trail to show that the employees are being penalized for theft/misplacement. They pass the hat amongst themselves and make up the difference. It’s not like they’re having their checks garnished. This guy gets a bonus and accolades while the kids working there have to make up the difference if something goes missing.

    4. k.k*

      He needs to be reported to the head office. This is basically extortion, and a horrendous practice. They have to know that 0% shirk is unheard of, so that gives weight to the story being true. I know that sometimes head offices suck and they might look the other way to keep the good numbers, but hopefully they’ll take it seriously.

      1. Cochrane*

        I was joking to my friend that they may fire him and promote the no-shrink miracle manager in his place for solving this age-old problem in retail. If this manager is a really good BS artist, he could spin the firings as bad apples who were either complict in the “shrink” or too incompetent to stop them.

        It’s been years since I’ve been in retail, but I’d have to think that this may be the first “real” job for some of these kids and they’re going to think that this is how management is done. Not a healthy lesson to learn.

        In any event, I’ve told him to take it up with the head office management, but to keep his options open if they don’t get down to the bottom of it or allow him to fire this bozo. The rot would be coming down from the top and unlikely to change.

      1. Casual Dave*

        Yes report – and if your friend has hire and fire power over that store manager, fire them.

    7. BadWolf*

      0% shrinkage seems like it should be viewed as impossible. Even if no customer stole anything. At some point in time, something will be accidentally damaged.

      Even if there isn’t an “illegal” or company policy bit to point out here — the optics are potentially terrible for the company if it hits the media.

      1. Lindsay J*

        This. I work in a warehouse. There are no customers.

        There isn’t really any employee theft, either. These are things like grease and o-rings. Things that people would not want.

        Our only job is to maintain this inventory accurately.

        There is still shrink. Stuff gets misplaced so badly it’s not going to be found for another decade. Small parts stick together. People miscount and think they are sending out two but there’s really 3. Stuff gets damaged. Paperwork doesn’t get filled out correctly so there’s no record of something being used.

        As a company we’re at about 5% variance right now, without the two biggest warehouses being added in.

        Add into that the challenges of a retail environment, where people will shoplift things, on top of human error and damages. And it’s always going to be higher.

    8. Can't Sit Still*

      That’s illegal in California, at least. Even if it’s not illegal in his location, it’s still unethical. What else is that store manager extorting out of his employees?

      1. ThursdaysGeek*

        Wouldn’t that be potentially reducing their pay to less than minimum wage, which is illegal in the other states too?

    9. Emily S.*

      OMG, I used to work retail in HS and college. That is complete BS, a terrible practice. He should absolutely be reported to the higher-ups.

    11. Beth Anne*

      Wow that is crazy! I worked at a grocery store in high school and one time we had to have a special meeting b/c of too much shrinkage. I’m surprised he didn’t get flagged for such a high turnover rate. I would def. report it as if someone else finds it he could get in trouble as well.

      1. Windchime*

        I used to work in a grocery store way back when. One of the carry-out clerks got fired for stealing roasted chickens and eating them in the back room, then leaving the carcass for management to find.

  106. Cakesniffer*

    Not a question but a funny/confusing story about my husband’s former co-worker:
    She transferred into his department, worked there about two weeks and then left for a scheduled vacation. Only trouble is she left two days earlier than she’d arranged with her boss. He gave her the benefit of the doubt and assumed he’d misunderstood. Her first scheduled day back was a snow day, where employees are allowed to work from home. She logged on but only completed 1-2 small tasks, not the 15+ jobs they typically complete in a day. The next day she emailed her manager around 10:00 AM and said, “I’m not sure if you’re the right person to tell, but effective today I no longer work for Company.”

    When cleaning out her desk he found an Excel spreadsheet she’d printed for her own use (no one else was going to be given this file). Every single cell was printed on an individual sheet of paper. All 100 cells. I’m still baffled as to whether this was a deliberate attempt to waste a bunch of the company’s paper and ink or if she truly didn’t know how to print the spreadsheet another way. Should I ever become disgruntled at my current job and wish to display some truly passive aggressive behavior, I will go out with a bang by handing my boss his files on individually printed sheets!

    1. Environmental Navy Wife*

      How in the world would someone manage to print a singular Excel cell per sheet of paper? That is hilariously strange!

      1. Cakesniffer*

        I know! I had to try it out with a file to see how that’s even possible. The best I could figure is it was set to print the selected area and she somehow sat there and selected each cell one by one, hitting print every time. There were other indications that she was in over her head with the job so perhaps changing the printing settings really was beyond her.

        1. Environmental Navy Wife*

          Well, I guess I have had really odd zoom issues on Excel. Usually it’s with large databases and wrapped text, and usually it’s like 2-3 columns get put on one page….but you’d think you’d notice the indication that it would be printing oodles of pages.

  107. rough week*

    My cat passed away this week and I am having a really hard time getting back into work. The grief is still overwhelming at this point and I can’t focus. My work requires a lot of top level thinking that is just not possible right now. I’ve already done all the small, mindless tasks I can think of so now I’m just sitting here not doing much of anything.

    Does anyone have any tips for pulling it together at work after a significant personal blow?

    I did reread the recent post about taking leave for a pet’s death. I am very grateful my job is independent and flexible, so that hasn’t been an issue. I was able to take the day off after it happened and take half days the next two. Even now, no one would notice or care if I continue working shorter days for a bit. But it does feel good to get out of the house and I wish I was more able to get something done. I welcome the distraction and sense of accomplishment. I just can’t focus.

    1. Whoa*

      I am so sorry for your loss. It’s such a hard thing to deal with. Being completely honest, after one of my dogs passed away a few years ago it took several weeks to not be openly sad and risk crying at my desk. My only advice would be to actively try to focus on happy things and do whatever it takes to get your spirits up, even momentarily. It will help with the focus, bit by bit. Go out and have fun, eat the foods you love, get plenty of rest and surround yourself with loved ones that can help with the sadness and not judge.

      1. rough week*

        Thank you. I am definitely struggling with that now. Bless my private office.

        That’s a great suggestion to focus on some small happy things at work. My favorite lunches, coffee breaks, etc. Fake it until you make it, I guess.

    2. k.k*

      I’m so sorry for your loss. It’s not much, but know there’s at least one random stranger out there wishing you good thoughts.

      If you’re able to, I might take a few more days off, even a week. But do use that time to get out of the house and do things you enjoy. You might not feel like you’re getting anything accomplished, but you will have something to do and a distraction without the obligation of having to do high level thinking. That extra time can help ease you back into feeling normal again.

      1. rough week*

        Thank you so much. I’m glad my weekend and weeknights are totally free for the next week, so I will still have a lot of time to get out of the house.

    3. KR*

      I’m so sorry to hear about your cat. Be gentle on yourself. Remember that your cat wouldn’t want you to be sad. If you need kitty cuddles and think it would help, hanging out at a local shelter tland crying with a kitten in your lap might be better than being home alone.

    4. Luna*

      Oh no! I’m so sorry about your kitty. When my cat passed away a few months ago I had the same trouble focusing at work, but since my job is slow-paced in general it wasn’t a huge deal. As long as it won’t mess with deadlines or anything I think it’s okay to let yourself take it easy for a bit and process your grief. Maybe try to focus on accomplishing as many of those smaller tasks as you can as a way to distract yourself, and if you have the PTO taking shorter days will still get you out of the house most days but you won’t have to be “on” for as long each day.

      1. rough week*

        Thank you. It is good to hear it’s okay to be a little slow for a while in the context of a slow-paced workplace.

    5. AnotherLibrarian*

      I am so sorry for your loss.

      Right now, your priority has to be to “appear” to be as together as humanly possible. Captain Awkward has a great letter about working with depression that if chock full of advice on how to do that. It’s here: https://captainawkward.com/2013/02/16/450-how-to-tighten-up-your-game-at-work-when-youre-depressed/

      I’d do a few things in no real order:
      1. Forgive yourself right now. Be super kind to yourself.
      2. Assess what HAS to be done vs what you think SHOULD be done. Prioritize the most crucial tasks while assuming they will take at least twice as long while you’re grieving.
      3. If you’ve been a great employee up until now, your boss should be forgiving while you work through this.
      4. Do your absolute best to be engaged at meetings and when you’re working with others. This will help you feel competent.
      5. Understand that not everyone will get this. A lot of people either don’t have pets or aren’t really that attached. So, this might be a case where you don’t tell people why you’re upset (plus it’s none of their business) and focus on getting stuff done.

      1. rough week*

        Thank you for the link and these ideas. This kind of specific advice really helps.

        The most important project I was worried about having to focus on just got taken off my plate for a business reason – it belongs in another division. So that’s a huge relief.

        I’ve scheduled some meetings next week on projects that will require more rote effort. I think that will be good. It feels more doable than the other project.

        Now I’m going to spend the rest of the afternoon attending a seminar and cleaning my office. Feels like something productive even if it’s not really. There’s not much else I can work on until the meetings next week now that the other project has been transferred.

        1. Eye of Sauron*

          Hang in there.

          About the best thing I can offer as a suggestion is to do what you can and then not beat yourself up about the other stuff.

    6. Loves Libraries*

      So sorry. I know how you feel. My dog died last month and I’m so lonely without her. Very slowly getting better. You will too.

      1. JaneB*

        I’m so sorry! I lost my cat on 8th March and am still in the random stab of grief stage myself, it’s messing up my sleep which is affecting my work, but… it will pass, and the best advice I have is to be kind to yourself – don’t over book your time, have easy to prepare healthy food around even if it costs a little more etc. It will get better (I’ve been through it before) and dialling things down a little at work is definitely better than making a big mistake by pushing.

        Virtual hugs, if they’re welcome, and warm thoughts. Your kitty was lucky to be loved so much.

  108. Whoa*

    Any tips on how to be patient when waiting to hear back about an interview? I had one on Monday and it went really well IMO (we had good banter, I was confident in my answers, asked good questions, and even had one interviewer say that he was “absolutely charmed by me”) and when I sent my follow up thank-you emails, they let me know they would be reaching out to everyone by the end of the month. I know you’re supposed to mentally move on and not fret, but my impatience and hopeful excitement is making it hard. Any advice or tricks to not focus on it?

    1. AeroEngineer*

      I always pretend like I “heard back” didn’t get it, and continue applying and interviewing.

      This stems also from the fact that I have had interviews like yours, and I actually didn’t get it in the end, which also might make it eaiser for me to do this now. Nothing is for sure until you have a solid offer in your hand.

  109. Brett*

    Had a surprise raise at my mid-year review!
    It was bigger in amount and percentage than all my raises combined in 8 years at least job. This job may be intense, but it really feels good to get real recognition in a workplace.

    1. fposte*

      I think my neighbor’s toddler has gotten more raises than your last job gave. So great you’re in a good place now!

      1. Brett*

        That’s quite true. Raises for professional staff at old job has been playing out in the local news every couple of weeks. Unfortunately, there is a new chief elected official election coming up, and the winner almost always runs on slashing spending and cutting taxes, which equals no raises for professional staff.

  110. De Minimis*

    My interview last Friday wasn’t great. Not horrible, but I think I’m just poor at interviewing and out of practice. Also, I struggle to come up with examples of certain things. My work has never really been project-based, it’s more just maintaining regular processes and practices. So when I’m asked, “Give me an example of a project that you worked on, step by step, from start to finish” I’m kind of stuck on what to say. Short of making something up or trying to make one of my regular tasks into something more than it actually is [which is what I ended up doing] I don’t really know how to answer in a way that would help me.

    This was with a former employer in a position that was basically the same as my previous one with them. I was a little surprised that someone a lot higher up in the organization was on the call, and that threw me somewhat. She didn’t say anything during the interview, but I knew she had first-hand knowledge of a lot of the areas in the previous job where I had issues, and I kept thinking about how she would probably tell my potential supervisor [who conducted the interview] afterward about all the tasks that I mentioned where I hadn’t done very well in the past.

    Anyway, if I’m selected I’ll probably hear something today or possibly early next week. It would involve a big relocation so I’m not really heartbroken if I don’t get it, but it’s a case of “What do I do now?” since I don’t seem to have many other prospects right now.

    1. Lindsay J*

      Ugh, I feel you.

      HR asked me, “What is your favorite interview question to ask?” in my interview. And I don’t really have one. I ask probably pretty normal questions that, as a whole, give me a good idea about who the candidate is and whether or not they would be a fit for the position I’m hiring for. But each individual question is only as valuable as the answer it gets me, and how that answer fits into the rest of the picture of the interview.

      And being asked that question just threw me and made my next couple answers shaky as well.

      I hope it turns out well for you, anyway.

  111. HJ*

    I just applied to four jobs this Wednesday, and two have called me in for an interview! Only problem is that for one job, this will be the third time they have posted this position since October. What questions should I ask in the interview to determine why this position has been open so often, and what are any red flags I should look out for?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I would ask the following: Why did the last person who held this position leave? And how long were they here?

      And then any questions about culture. I think there are some in the archives.

      1. TootsNYC*

        “I notice this is the third time this position has been posted since October? What has made it hard to fill?”
        No need to beat around the bush.

  112. TheNotoriousMCG*

    Hey all – a dear friend and coworker found out yesterday that she lost her baby. She was early in her pregnancy, but was really excited and had announced it to our office. I’ve never had someone close to me have a miscarriage, and I would love all advice on what to say and not say so that I can be supportive and sensitive for her at this time and when she comes back.

    1. KR*

      “I’m so sorry to hear about your child, Lucinda. This must be so difficult for you. Please let me know if there’s anything I can do to help you or support you.” And then let her come to you for support or help.

    2. CBE*

      Remember her due date, and be aware that she may really struggle around that time as well. Be patient if she seems to be struggling. If you’re close, and it feels right, call or text her on that date. Sometimes it feels like SUCH a huge and painful milestone that no one else remembers or cares about. Let her know that you remember and understand.

    3. BadWolf*

      I’m sure these are obvious to you, but I would not say anything in the realm of “You can have another” “I’m sure it’s for the best” “Many pregnancies miscarry early on and people don’t even now. “I’m sure your baby is an angel in heaven.” “When will you try again?”

      After KRs suggestion, I would lean towards work as normal — sometimes it’s nice to have everything at work as work.

      1. Kuododi*

        Oh…and in the name of all that’s holy!!! Please don’t make any comments about how: “Heaven needed another angelngel!” Or anything else to that effect. Blech….

        1. Environmental Navy Wife*

          My lovely mother-in-law, after my SIL had a miscarriage at 26 weeks, who also asked poor SIL what she “must have done” to cause it. SIL is literally the mom I would aspire to be if Hubs and I ever changed our minds and had kids. She is absolutely an awesome person all ’round.

          And MIL wonders why I refuse to talk about babies with her.

          (To be fair, right now, there’s not a lot I *will* talk to MIL about, since it seems to end up on this route for nearly any subject.)

    4. KatieKate*

      Oh wow, I’m in the same boat except I’m one of the few people she told. It’s so sad.

    5. PNWflowers*

      You’re already off to a great start just by asking! This was her baby, so no matter how early there is very real grief there that will likely rear up unexpectedly, her due date for example. And I agree avoid assigning any reasons or meaning to it, or the “you can have more!” comments; its not a tee shirt- she wanted **this** baby. You sound sensitive and caring- I think a big part of grieving is just holding space and listening. You’re off to a great start.

    6. beenthere*

      Others have mentioned a lot of great things — especially remembering when the due date might be and saying “you can have another”. One thing that might sounds a little weird at first, but if you are childfree, try not comment on it frequently around her. Or rather, what you believe the benefits are – “I can travel so much etc ” – because it might be perceived as a weird reminder of her loss and a strangely boast-y way of making her feel better. Obviously don’t deny who you are, but it’s one of those topics to skirt around.

      Also like others have said, it’s a good thing you’re asking because it means you actually care….which is the best thing to do. I’m so sorry for your friend’s loss.

  113. Wendy Darling*

    Any strategies for dealing with a completely ridiculous, irrational client when firing them is apparently not a thing?

    Llamacorp has hired my company, which makes custom teapots for other companies, to make them a teapot. I am part of the team assigned to make their teapots. The problem is that Llamacorp appears to have multiple warring factions, each of which give us completely contradictory requirements. Over the course of this week, our communication went like:

    US: Our teapots can do A, B, C, and D.
    THEM: We are only interested in A.
    US: Okay. So you don’t want your teapot to do B, C, or D? We actually strongly recommend that you at least do B.
    THEM: No. We ONLY want A. We will not talk to you about anything except A. We are cancelling all meetings related to B, C, and D, and if you schedule new meetings about anything other than A we will not attend because they are a waste of our time. (THIS IS NOT AN EXAGGERATION)
    US: Okay. We understand. You only want your teapot to do A.
    THEM: Yes. But we also want it to do B, C, and D, of course.
    ME: *dead*

    Basically their ask changes every time we talk to them, and they are inevitably angry that we didn’t understand what they wanted already (even though that has changed since last time we spoke). They alternate between saying they can’t move forward without knowing best practices for teapot implementation specifically related to llamas and insisting that they already know what they’re going to do and they don’t care what our best practices are and we’re wasting their time.

    Apparently my company has never fired a client so I’m stuck with them, and I’ve been assigned to work with them on the teapot hackathon they’re throwing. HELP.

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      This is not that unusual, which is why good project managers are so highly valued. Part of the job is determining scope and setting expectations, and sometimes it’s not easy. But I’d suggest 1) have a dedicated note taker, so that you get accurate minutes, 2) write up the minutes from each meeting and email them out, 3) go to someone who *can* fire a client, and tell them that they need to speak to someone at Llamacorp who is above the people they have been sending to meetings. For #3, they may just warn them that they will continue to be billed for planning as long as you keep getting contradictory instructions and having to start over, or they may ask someone higher up to come to see how the meetings are being run. Actually, including someone like that on the meeting minutes email would work, too.

      The main thing is to remain calm and remember that part of your job is (apparently) to hammer out what Llamacorp wants with them, no matter how long it takes. If your company has a problem with how long it’s taking, then someone with more authority probably needs to step in.

      (These teapots sound an awful lot like some websites I’ve worked on, BTW. :) )

      1. Wendy Darling*

        My company has apparently never fired a client. We just don’t do that. Which is unfortunate because some clients need fired. (These guys in particular need to be told that if they know so much about making teapots they should go make their own damn teapots.)

        I think part of the problem is that our PM is new and also… uh, not great. He tends to say yes to the client before he checks if we can actually do the thing they want, e.g. he told them we could send them our demo code and then his boss was like NO WE CANNOT so now the client is upset about that in addition to their normal baseline upsetness (which is high). He also tends to believe what the client tells him even though they lie CONSTANTLY (e.g. he believes them when they say “We sent you the spout documentation last week” and not me when I point out that they sent no such thing).

        I think I’m mostly concerned because I’ve dealt with people who were out of touch with reality in this way before and it went badly because they didn’t know what they wanted, they just knew that whatever I was providing wasn’t it, so basically my role was to do lots of work and then get berated for it.

        Fortunately in this case I have a supportive boss who agrees that this client is ridiculous and is aware of the PM’s uselessness, so that should help. My hope is that if I get to the hackathon and get crapped all over they’ll pull me out rather than let me be a client punching bag.

        1. The Cosmic Avenger*

          Definitely sounds like the PM is the one dropping the ball. Let him be responsible for requirements and nailing it down. In fact, I usually emailed my PM to check that I had the latest requirements whenever I worked on something that depended on a client choice. And remember, if you’re getting paid to do it all over because of their lies/indecision/poor communication on their part, guess who pays for that? THEY DO! :D

          Incidentally, it’s really good your boss is on your side, and you should very politely push back whenever you hear the PM overpromise or give bad information. Like Alison advises, just assume it was an innocent mistake on their part.

    2. MissGirl*

      Expect the client to be unreasonable. When I was working with a difficult client, I kept thinking they’d to behave in a normal way. I realized my greatest frustrations was from them failing to meet my completely normal, yet for them unrealistic expectations. Once I anticipated blown timetables, changed requirements, and crazy requests things became easier.

      Also remind yourself this is part of what your company pays you to do. You’re not necessarily getting paid to run a hackathon, you’re getting paid to run a hackathon with them.

  114. Am I being too sensitive?*

    So, I’m an editor at a company website, and as per usual process, I sent a final story to the head communications person in charge of the story’s subject matter (“Ted”) and asked him to kindly have his team review and compile any changes that needed to be made into one document for me so that I didn’t lose any feedback along the way. This has been procedure for two years, and we’ve had a great working relationship (except for the first time I relayed this new process to him when the website got a new team of editors, including me, and I was told “this wasn’t the company way” and then he introduced an error in his feedback that he later tried to blame my team for).

    There’s a member of my team (“Carol”) who is lateral to me (more of a production person) who is copied on all of these review emails just so she can track story progress. I have been at the company for two years but have 20 years of experience as an editor at major media companies; she has been at the company for at least 20, as has Ted.

    Apparently Ted emailed Carol separately and questioned why I was treating him as an editorial assistant, noting that he wasn’t sure if it was my “age, or my generation,” but he would never treat a senior manager this way.

    Carol wasn’t sure what to do with this and forwarded it to my boss, who debated showing it to me but ultimately did in case he was being difficult to me separately. In fact, he’s been perfectly fine to me and expressed no dissatisfaction.

    The age part really stuck in my craw. First of all, if he’d checked LinkedIn, he’d know we were both over 40 and both members of Generation X. Second of all, I don’t believe mentioning age (especially if you don’t know the person’s age) is professional, especially via company email to one’s colleague, not even one’s manager. This at a company that champions diversity of experiences and backgrounds. (It doesn’t help that he’s a 50-something white man and I’m a 40-something mixed race woman.)

    I told my boss I was considering reporting him to our business conduct hotline. Imagine if I had sent an email to one of his colleagues saying, “I don’t know if it’s Ted’s age or his generation, but…”. She and her boss decided I shouldn’t, since technically the email was not sent to me, but my boss is going to speak with Ted about the matter.

    Am I being too sensitive that this is making me livid? I’m sure a lot of it is that he did try to throw us under the bus two years ago, but everything’s been fine (or seems to have been) since then. It’s also the pervasive culture of old-timers vs. newcomers that bothers me (though at many companies, two years would be a pretty long time!). Just curious what people think here, both about my feelings and how it was handled.

    1. Millennial Lawyer*

      I wouldn’t have even asked your boss permission to report it – the whole reason of a hotline is to be able to report things without talking about it with your boss, right? But now that you have, and they directed you not to, you’re in a tough spot. I don’t think you’re being too sensitive about it. I would just be watchful of your tone in communications with Ted in the future.

    2. H.C.*

      I work in a communications role where I have to funnel all sorts of written materials for review/feedback from various stakeholders too… my reaction from your comment is “It depends…?” I can see how Ted can be miffed if you were being particularly specific about instructions, especially with seemingly common sense stuff (turn track changes on before making feedback, for example), if you gave a really tight deadline or if you turn over copy that still needs extensive editing after it’s passed through you. Likewise, his “your age or generation” remark is out of line but I can see someone saying that in a moment of frustration.

      Also, I think Carol is a bit in the wrong to just directly forward it without pressing Ted for more details or giving some context to you and your boss (if only so you can interact better with him in the future).

      Lastly, is it possible to ask one of Ted’s direct reports to consolidate the edits instead – if he feels that’s below his paygrade to do? Or even Carol since she’s already tracking story progress?

      Having said all that, I’d try to let this go and just keep a mental note on being extra cordial when engaging Ted.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      It sounds like you and Ted are not on the same page about your roles or your communication strategies. I’d try to arrange some kind of meeting to figure out what you think versus what he thinks, and then make some course corrections.

  115. PrayForMe*

    I wish I didn’t take the job, but I thought I would miss out on a good opportunity. I couldn’t stand the teasing and it made me cry. It is a good place, but not suited for my personality. I always quit when people tease me or are mean to me. I say it is not the right fit, because I really like the company just not the bullies. But will people think I was fired or there is something wrong with me? I quit on my own, because I couldn’t control my crying. I should learn not to force myself into an environment I know I won’t like and trust my gut. I’m into a formal and not casual environment. They already teased me at the interview, so they already shown their personalities to me, but I stupidly and desperately took it thinking I can handle it. Sometimes people comments are very hurtful, but to them they think it is nothing and carelessly say things. But there are some nice people too, it’s just one or two meanies can really ruin your time there when you spent so much time at work even if you have a good boss. I just want to work with people who treat me nicely.

    1. Temperance*

      Is this a pattern, or one specific job?

      If this is a pattern, I am going to gently suggest maybe reaching out to your physician about the issue.

    3. Short & Dumpy*

      I hate to say this, but the fact that you say “I always quit when people tease me or are mean to me” makes me think your meter may be a little off in reading people’s intent. If there is anyone you can go to for a check on whether what you feel is teasing worth quitting over is what the typical person would feel, it might help. It may very well be that you’ve just had a run of really bad luck…but it could also be that you’re oversensitive to things and would be happier in the long term if you could work with someone who could develop your ability to shrug things off (or even recognize when they are intended as friendly).

      Example from my work this week…I notoriously order lunch from the only place that delivers to our office. This morning I spent some time complaining with another gal about how out of shape we have gotten & how much weight we’ve gained. Lunch came around, I didn’t have time to run out before a conference call, so I ordered delivery. She made a joke that I wasn’t going to lose the weight that way. This could have been either A) a nasty dig at my weight and eating habits or B) a friendly joke among coworkers who are in the same boat (desk jobs, in a bit of a food desert, too short on time to get healthy options). I *know* with 100% confidence it was B. But another gal in the office whom I’m also friends with but who has a massive streak of paranoia, IM’d me in sympathy thinking it had been A.

      I hope, whatever it turns out to be, you find a place you can be happy soon!

  116. Juli G.*

    I know there were concerns this week’s maxi pad letter was fake. And I know there were numerous reasons why that was suspected.

    But let me tell you… at least twice a year, I get complaints about things in people’s cars. Unlike LW’s company we don’t do anything about legal items but people get super offended by messy cars and feel that we should intervene.

      1. KR*

        I mean I guess the employer could pay for interior car detailing for it’s employees. I’d love an employee benefit like that. Lol

        1. Murphy*

          Haha, me too! I’ll have to increase the already generous portion of dog hair to get more attention.

      2. Juli G.*

        Speak with them because they aren’t representing the company well. We don’t work in automative by the way (where it would still be stupid but maybe slightly logical reasoning?).

    2. Can't Sit Still*

      Offended by things in other people’s cars? First, my co-workers all have windows tinted as dark as the law will allow (apparently I’m the weirdo with my non-tinted windows), so that would take some dedicated peering into someone else’s car to see anything, and second, who has time? People are so strange.

  117. Lady Phoenix*

    So Channel Awesome has been doing everything AskAManager tells conpanies NOT to do. It would be harious if they ever wrote in.

    1. Justin*

      I have also been following this.

      These days I just follow the separate producers in their own realms/youtube. Actually Lindsay Ellis is a friend of a friend, so I’ve heard Not Good stuff from the intermediary friend before…

      1. Lady Phoenix*

        Yup. It is bad enough to be incompetant with filming (not having water, extra cameras set up, confortable sitting spaces)—but quite another to cover up sexual harassers and predators.

  118. Relo*

    I’m looking for advice on how to get some information about paying back my relocation expenses.

    I have been with the company for years, but I was just recently relocated about 6 months ago.

    When I moved, I signed a relocation contract that if I leave before 12 months, I am responsible to pay back all relocation. This includes money paid directly to me (flight, lodging, real estate fees), but also money that my company paid on my behalf to an external moving company.

    The situation has gotten to the point that I am not sure I can last the next 6 months at this job. I completely understand and agree with the relocation repayment agreement and would pay it back if I leave before the full year is up. I would like to take this into consideration and hopefully negotiate for a new offer to include enough (through pay raise or signing bonus) that I can cover the repayment.

    The problem is – I have no idea how much the total would be. Obviously I know how much reimbursement I was given for travel and lodging, but my company also arranged and paid for shipping my household goods and my car to the new location. I never saw the dollar amounts on that or any info of that sort.
    If I go ask my relocation rep or HR rep for more details, that’s an obvious red flag that I’m looking elsewhere, so I can’t really do that.

    Is there anything else I’m missing that would be a good way to find out this information?

    1. De Minimis*

      Maybe check with the finance department?

      Also, you could say you’re asking because you’re trying to figure out your moving expenses for your tax return, and are wanting to make sure there’s nothing else you can deduct.

    2. GigglyPuff*

      I was going to suggest the same thing about taxes. I’m not sure how it works when paid directly to the moving company, but I know when my parents got relocation across the country, they didn’t realize it would count as income and had a little shell shock when they went to do their taxes.

      1. De Minimis*

        It shouldn’t if they turned in receipts and the company only paid the actual costs of moving. If it was a case where the company gave them a flat amount for moving expenses and didn’t require repayment of any excess amount, it would most likely be income.

        At any rate, it’s a great way to ask about it without it seeming like someone is considering an early exit.

    3. EmilyG*

      I was in exactly this boat a few years ago. I never did figure out how to find out how much I would owe, but I took the leap based on back-of-the-envelope guesswork and was close enough. And I’m really glad I did it.

      Here’s my number for you to work off of: it was $11k in 2012 for a cross-country full-pack move, two weeks in temp housing, a few hotels nights, and airfare, for just me (not additional family members). No idea about car shipping, alas. Bear in mind that big companies negotiate discounts so it may be less than you’d think.

    4. Bagpuss*

      Could you contact the company which did the move,(or a similar company) and ask about a quote for a similar move?
      They may have a cheaper, corporate rate, so it’s probable that any quote you get will be higher that the actual amount.

    5. valentine*

      If you have or can get invoices or contact information for the movers, look into contacting them directly. Did you not have to sign to acknowledge delivery and keep a copy of it?

  119. Cute Li’l UFO*

    Had a couple interviews this week but no offers.

    There is a small agency that I spoke with at the end of January that asked to schedule an interview and never got back to me even after I followed up. I noticed that the position I applied for is still up. My mentor/former boss was insistent that I keep chasing this lead. Should I apply again? Reach out some other way? I left a voicemail for the guy (co-founder) on Tuesday on mentor’s advice but I have not received a response. I’m in the camp of just write it off at this point.

  120. Burt's Knees*

    I interview a lot for jobs that are temporary ( it’s the nature of the business, they can last anywhere from two weeks to a year). And I generally interview with the person or team I would be working for, not a professional HR person. And I’ve found a lot of them don’t really know how to interview, or don’t come in prepared with questions and we just chat and talk for like ten minutes and that’s it. I’ve found I’m much less likely to get the more free flowing job interviews, and I think it might because I need to more proactively insert information about my skill set into the casual conversation, but it’s hard for me to know exactly what they are looking for because they aren’t giving me anything to go off of. Any tips for backseat driving an interview gracefully?

    1. Unacademic*

      Ah! I get these interviews in my industry too. I’m not sure how universal this is, but for me those interviews always seem to start with some version of “tell me about yourself.” I have a fairly long answer to that, which basically describes why and how I’ve made a transition from one industry to another very different, but still related one. In my case, this gives me the chance to demonstrate commitment to the new industry and tie in experience that doesn’t seem immediately relevant. Anyway, whatever your situation is, use that question to make a clear, structured narrative about your work history and how you fit well into the role you’re interviewing for – sort of like a more personal and detailed version of a cover letter.

      Another thing that I think works well for me is to interject (politely, of course!) when the interviewer is describing the job. So if the interviewer says the job involves a lot of task A or requires skill B, I will mention my experience in task A at job X, and how strongly my skill B has been developed across multiple roles. If you’ve prepared answers to some typical interview questions (examples of your strengths, past successes, etc), you can fold those answers in using this format.

      Come prepared with questions to ask that can give you an opening to talk about important parts of your experience, if you think there are things you’re not getting the chance to talk about in thes casual interviews which sell you well in the formal ones. And of course, thoughtful questions about the work, the company, etc, that demonstrate understanding of and serious interest in the role are always great. Just because your interviewer has no structure, doesn’t mean you can’t.

    2. Unacademic*

      Oh, and for being unsure of what they’re looking for, I think you can definitely find ways to ask! If they don’t tell you much about the role, “what does a typical day look like?” “What do people typically find most challenging?” “How much of the job is X versus Y?” Look up some lists of questions to ask interviewers for inspiration. There was a great one from this site that can tell you more about what kind of candidate they want: “Of people who’ve done this role in the past, what sets someone who’s great at it apart from someone’s who’s just good?”

  121. mirandaze*

    How do you look for a new job after a recent- poor- job history? And how do you explain why you got through two jobs in less than a year?

    To contextualise, I worked in sales for 6 months, burned out hard, and ended up losing my job. I then took a job in admin, but lost that job after I committed a breach of data protection law (it was minor, but I work in Europe, and everyone is trying very hard to be GDPR compliant right now).

    Both of the above were to do with a severe, untreated mental health condition- but I don’t actually have an official diagnosis yet, I am unlikely to be able to get treated any time soon, and the nature of the condition means I would be highly unlikely to get disability benefits (and if I did, they aren’t enough for me and my father- I am his carer- to live on).

    1. MuseumChick*

      Could you leave the second job off your resume and say that you had to stop working to deal with a medical issue but are now ready to re-enter the work world?

  122. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

    I’m struggling a little bit with feeling stagnant in my current position, but all my suggestions for ways I can expand experience keep getting shot down by my boss. I don’t know what direction to go in now, since he basically won’t allow me to take on any additional tasks, despite my being bored while my colleagues are overloaded. Any suggestions?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Have you asked him if he has any suggestions for additional tasks or projects you can take on?

      1. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

        I have. His default answer to everything is “let me think about it.” and then I don’t hear anything else about it for weeks at a time, no matter how often I bug him about it. It’s pretty frustrating because I just came off of a big project that took up all my time for over a month and I only took on because I was under the impression that it would open up more possibilities for me. But all my efforts to keep up that momentum have fallen down the black hole of “let me think about it.” So I’m stuck and not sure where to go from here. I would need to stay here for at least one more year before I can realistically think about leaving so my 401k can vest and I can put just a smidge more experience under my belt.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Ugh how annoying.

          What about asking your colleagues directly if there is anything you can take off their plates?

          (I almost wanna say to find out what they all need and create a binder breaking down everything you can do to be helpful just because of our usernames…)

  123. Peaches*

    Is it normal to not want to be promoted and “move up the ranks” at work?

    About a year ago, I took a promotion from a customer service rep, to a sales support person at my job. I’ve had excellent evaluations in my time here, and my manager very much respects me. However, I’m constantly being asked by my peers and different managers what I want to do next at the company. If I were being honest, my answer would be, “become a mom and work part time!”

    My husband has accepted a high paying job that he will start after he graduates grad school next month, so working part time will be something that is viable after we pay off my husband’s student loans which will only take about 8-12 months.

    Is it weird for me to feel this way though? Honestly, if I could go back, I wouldn’t have even taken the promotion I received a year ago. The work is okay, and not usually too stressful, but my customer service position was even less stressful, and the day to day work was predictable and easy (which I like!) The 5% raise, to me, isn’t worth the more stressful, challenging job.

    I think when the time comes to talk to my boss about going part time (if he allows it), he’ll be shocked that working part time in an easy, stress-free, flexible position is something that I want to do. I work hard in my current role and do a great job, but I feel like that alone has given my boss the false impression that I want to have even more responsibility, and become a “work is my life” kind of woman.

    Does anyone else feel this way?

    1. Murphy*

      Yes, totally. It’s both fine and normal to want to find a job you like and stay in one position rather than “move up”, and it’s also both fine and normal to want to focus on family instead of work!

      I am definitely not a “work is my life” person. I like my job well enough, but work is what allows me to live the rest of my life.

    2. BadWolf*

      Yes — my work definitely has “plateau” sort of space. It’s not official, of course, but you can move up to a spot where essentially they expect you to perform at a certain level, but you won’t get poked to keep moving up unless you show interest.

    3. Espeon*

      Absolutely. I hate working; I’m actually somewhere I like most of my colleagues, don’t dread going in, have a great boss, it’s a good company etc, this is the happiest I’ve been in a workplace but if I won the lottery there would still be an Espeon-shaped hole in the door.

      I work in customer service and I did take a step-back in responsibility and pay for this job. It’s not like I’m highly qualified or was earning a lot anyway, but still I calculated the lowest annual salary I needed to get by in a way which was comfortable to me (hint: I’m not into designer clothes!) and applied for the most basic CSR jobs that paid enough – here I am! I was pushed for a promotion in January and vaguely entertained the idea, but ultimately decided the stress far outweighed the meagre salary increase.

      There’s not a thing wrong with you!

    4. Cakesniffer*

      Absolutely! I’ve never been a person who’s ambitious in my career. I have dreams and goals I work toward in other aspects of my life, but for work I like having a job I can go to for eight hours, do my thing (and do it well), and then go home at the end of the day with no overtime or work worry to come home with me. People are so varied that it’s no wonder we’re not all career-oriented folks. I’ve accepted that this probably comes with fewer pay increase opportunities but the trade-off of a good work/life balance makes up for that. You know yourself best, know your strengths and what you like and dislike, so there’s no shame in being open with your boss about what you want when the time comes.

      I recently took a promotion within the same company, so it still meets the 9-5 criteria and I don’t take work home with me, but there are still some times I regret it and wonder if this position isn’t for me. Some days I wish I could go back to being a lowly peon with no management responsibilities.

    5. Bea*

      As a workaholic and career minded woman, you are absolutely right to follow your instincts and desires. You don’t need to do anything that isn’t making you happy. Nobody gets to decide my ambition levels or yours!

      I know lots of folks who work to live or to keep busy and pad savings. My mom does that. My dad didn’t hate working but enjoyed having a labor position for 35 years, he could have tried to move to management but he kept us fed, clothed and we had family vacations! We already had limited time with him, he wouldn’t want to be a 60hr working even more, he would get less family time and that wasn’t worth us having a nicer house or expensive electronics.

    6. Rookie Manager*

      I have worked hard to progress in my career and am proud of what I do. However I dream of going back to part time work. If I ever have kids I will definitely go part time. However, I’d really like to keep progressing cos I’m like that – I’d never give up completely.

      Do what makes you happy, you can cut the household cloth accordingly.

  124. Miaw*

    I wonder if working for controversial/scandalous companies will negatively impact one’s career? For example, if you receive a resume for someone who worked for Cambridge Analytica or PETA, will you think badly of the person or question the ethics?

    Has anyone here ever worked for scandal-landen companies and how did that impact your career and morale? Has anyone shown interest in you, or got you rejected from other jobs?

    I am not working for any of those companies, but I am just curious if CA employees are massively demoralized now and how’s they are coping.

  125. Alice in workland*

    Vent time: one of my coworkers seems to be on a mission to show that she is smarter than everyone else in the team. She has one more diploma than the rest of us, but I don’t think it matters that much since the diploma is not super relevant and she has much less work experience than the rest of the team. But she has mentioned a few times that “she is overqualified” (if you can’t do the work well, you are not overqualified IMO), and she is absolutely refusing the compromise on anything. We would meet to discuss how to approach an issue and it is her way or the highway. and in between she sprinkles in some (faked or not) claims that she has imposter syndrome. It is draining and makes it very hard to work with her. /rant.

  126. Aleta*

    So, I’m in a job where I deal with telemarketers/cold callers for the first time, and oh man it’s so weird. Our policy is all calls to the owner and CFO go straight to voicemail. Sooooo mannnny people call and ask for the owner or CFO but refuse to tell me what it’s about, and/or refuse to go to voicemail/leave a message with me. There’s one caller that always goes “Oh, the message is too long for voicemail, it’d fill it up!” Like, lady, I’ve gotten “the baby pressed a button on the phone and nobody noticed” voicemails that were over six minutes long! That’s a horrible excuse for what I presume is company policy to not leave a voicemail (though I don’t know why that’d be), and if it’s true, WTF kind of absurdly bad sales pitch do you HAVE?

    1. Lumen*

      “That’s unfortunate. Feel free to call back when you are able to condense your message. Have a nice day! *click*”

  127. Not So Super-visor*

    My husband is being encouraged to transfer back to my home state. He actually started with the company in this state at one of their largest facilities. It was after he’d lost his job in his homestate, so we moved in temporarily with my dad, and I quit my job and found a new one in order to make this work. After a year in the company, he was able to transfer back to his home state and we moved back into our home (we were renting it to friends). Earlier this year, he spent a few weeks training new employees at a new facility in my home state and caught a lot of upper management eyes. They encouraged him to transfer then, but he kind of brushed it off. Then yesterday, a VP that he’d never met before was touring his facility, recognized his name, and again encouraged him to transfer. It would a title bump and not insignificant pay raise, plus their relocation package is pretty incredible (not something afforded to us before b/c husband asked for the transfer).
    Here’s the problem: in following him for his job, I bumped around all over the place as far as work before landing here 4 years ago. Almost 3 years ago, I took a promotion to supervisor, and then at the end of 2017 finally convinced them to bump my title to manager. This was based on a lot of projects that I had taken under my wing, but none of my job duties changed. In order to secure another job (if we decide to move) with a similar title, I feel like I really need to put in at least a year with this title. My husband feels that since none of my job duties really changed (and it really should have been a manager title all along) that I should be able to list my title as Manager for the entire time that I was a supervisor. I am a HUGE stickler for rules, so this just seems wrong to me.
    THOUGHTS?

    1. Ms Ida*

      I think your instinct is correct. You cannot fudge the dates. Would it be possible for you stay at your current job for the rest of the year and then follow your husband?

    2. valentine*

      Follow your gut and don’t ruin your reputation or references. In your cover letter/interviews, you can certainly mention and perhaps focus on how, after all those pile of projects, you asked for the corresponding title change.

  128. Flying Ghoti*

    Hi everyone! I’m a long-time reader but first-time commenter. What does everyone think of Canva for resume templates? I was thinking of using one of their more traditional looking designs for my resume, but I’m not sure if it would come across as more style than substance. (Or if they are too distinctive and it would be really obvious I’m using an online template.) I’m in university libraries (specifically archives & special collections) and trying to transition from a paraprofessional to a professional role.
    Canva’s resume templates section: https://www.canva.com/templates/resumes/
    Some of the designs I was considering: https://www.canva.com/templates/resumes/MACB8bY-eiA-moss-green-simple-resume/
    https://www.canva.com/templates/resumes/MACRQGd0Phc-blue-simple-academic-resume/?query=*
    https://www.canva.com/templates/resumes/MACUov8TGHk-white-minimal-scholarship-resume/?query=*

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      The first and third look like style over substance to me, especially the third. Look at how little info is actually on those pages — you want a format that will support you being able to provide real details about your work!

    2. Curious Cat*

      I agree with Alison, there’s not much space for actual information about you on the page. (Also, looking through the templates, when did people start putting head shots on their resumes who aren’t in acting?? Is this a thing now?)
      Word actually has some great, generic templates that look professional & are pretty easy to adjust as you need. Like this one: https://templates.office.com/en-us/Functional-resume-TM02919188

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        It’s not a thing (in the U.S.)! It’s only a thing when you get people pushing resume templates who don’t actually know what they’re doing!

      2. Flying Ghoti*

        Thanks guys! That’s kind of what I figured, but my boss was just telling me about re-doing her resume using Canva so I thought maybe it had become more of a thing. I was definitely planning to steer clear of using a head shot, but it sounds like I should just stick with Word templates.

        1. Whoa*

          Google docs also has a few templates that are pretty simple and easy to use. The plus side to that is that you can access them from any computer or mobile device if you need to do a quick change or update.

  129. Batshua*

    Happy Friday, everyone!

    So, in the saga of Batshua is Late To Work Sometimes For No Apparent Reason…

    So we’re assuming it’s the ADHD. Since I just got diagnosed last year, this whole thing is a long-drawn out drama.

    Over the past couple of weeks, I tried extended release Adderall. I got all the way up to 60 mg, and NOTHING HAPPENED. No side effects, no effects at all. Apparently that’s not normal; even if it’s the wrong med, SOMETHING should have happened.

    My psych NP is kinda weirded out. (I’m less surprised; this is how my body acts with thyroid hormone. I once got up to 88 mcg and nothing happened. My endo was freaked and lowered my dosage in response.) She wrote me a scrip for immediate release Ritalin, and I’m supposed to titrate up JUST in the morning until I feel good, and then try that dose twice a day, basically topping up when I start to feel it wearing off.

    My TMS psychiatrist suggested I get genetic testing done to see if my body metabolizes drugs improperly. My psych NP has warned me that those tests may not be able to give me the full picture since we don’t know all the genetic markers yet, so… If the results say everything is fine, I’m going to take it with a grain of salt, but if the results say something is wrong, that could be helpful information.

    And my ADHD therapist thinks I might have Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder (which is often comorbid/secondary to ADHD), and I had a sleep study in 2015, but it wasn’t for that. So today I’m trying to hunt down those records and confirm that the test did NOT check for this.

    Aaaaand… I’m meeting the the EAP LICSW. She asked me what she thought she could do for me, and my first thought was I had no idea and wanted to know what SHE thought, but I bit my tongue, took a breath and said I wanted perspective and someone who understood the culture at my job. She said people working my position are the most-stressed in the entire system. She says nurses come SECOND to the front line clerks. This both blew my mind and was incredibly validating. We’re going to meet once a week for a while.

    My midyear evaluation is going to be at the end of the month, and I am super nervous, since I did get a Formal Warning about lateness, but I am going to emphasize that this is most likely a medical problem and I am actively working on it.

    My unions rep knows about most of this stuff and says I’m doing all the right things, so if sh*t goes down, it’s comforting to know I have her in my corner.

    I bought smart outlets (they work like plug-in light timers, but more granular controls and better programming) to help get me cued as far as “time to wake up”. I may need more lamps or a light box or both.

    I continue to look for another job. I have a bad feeling that being perfectly on time is just a beserk button issue for a lot of folks I’ve worked for. I can’t do anything about the fact that my brain likes to sabotage me, but I can try to shove my life into a more workable schedule, and try to trick my brain back. I am hoping the mix of All The Things will make sufficient progress, but I am also scared that it won’t matter how well I do, every time I’m late (even if it’s 3 minutes once a month) is going to count more against me than it would against someone else.

    1. SpaceNovice*

      I hope you find a new job soon!

      ADHD meds don’t work well if your thyroid isn’t treated properly (synthroid was basically useless to me besides lowering TSH and upping T4, btw; still had all the symptoms). But, uh. Wow, that should have done SOMETHING at that level.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          I’m going to need more info to give advice to you specifically, but this is what I’m doing now:

          I have Hashimoto’s, which means my body is not only not producing enough T4, but it’s CRAP at changing it into T3. So I have to supplement T3. Without the T3 addition, I have absolutely no abatement in my symptoms; I remain brainfogged, tired, exhausted, unable to think, unable to concentrate, UNABLE TO MOVE SOMETIMES, etc. (I’m assuming this is what you mean by “do nothing” rather than it not changing your levels at all? But sometimes people don’t respond to synthroid at all.)

          The current standard treatment for Hypothyroidism is wrong and is not evidence-based medicine (AKA based off of actual science from actual experiments/studies). An aside: back pain management is also not evidence-based with the way most doctors are taught, and this is an issue in other parts of medicine. TSH and T4 only tell part of the story. If your T3 stays low (the active hormone), a good T4 level (the inactive hormone) is useless to you. Conversion is key, which is even worse in Hashimoto’s. Your thyroid also produces just a tiny bit of T3.

          I take NP Thyroid (natural replacement’s issues are fixed, btw) twice a day for T4 and T3; after I get up and at around 8pm. I also take liothyronine (artificial T3) in the early afternoon because the half-life is crap compared to T4. I avoid getting cold for too long, heavy amounts of exercise, and sleeping too cold at night; exercise and staying warm uses up your T3. It’s a particular type of feeling that normal tiredness doesn’t feel like… like there’s a floaty barrier between your body/energy/feeling sensations.

          1. SpaceNovice*

            Oh and I forgot to mention: Vyvanse you shouldn’t take if you’re hypothyroid. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE IT.

          2. Batshua*

            When I take thyroid hormone, sometimes my bloodwork changes, but I don’t feel any different. It doesn’t seem to actually DO anything. They keep telling me that my numbers are “fine”, but I suspect that just because it’s in the blood doesn’t mean my body is actually USING it right. (For example, my testosterone is “high normal”, yet I have PCOS systems.) Basically, I think my endocrine system is effed.

            I know there’s some studies that say people with fibromyalgia can’t convert T4 to T3 as efficiently as other folks, but when I brought that up to my endos (yes, more than one), I got a little bit of handwaving. I might have to go see someone a little woo to be taken seriously, which, frankly, is kind of sad.

            2. SpaceNovice*

              Sounds like your doctors might have been trained wrong. Are they even TESTING T3? Reverse T3? Both sets of Antibodies?

              1. Batshua*

                I think I’ve had Total T3 tested or Free T3 tested, but probably not both; I am 90% sure we’ve never tested Reverse T3. I don’t know if we’ve tested for antibodies at all!

                1. SpaceNovice*

                  Sooooo they literally don’t know what kind of hypothyroidism you even have. Great. How the @#$% are they supposed to treat it if they don’t even know what you HAVE? And they’re clearly not communicating the tests to you that you’ve done. There are multiple types and reasons for hypothyroidism from nutritional deficiencies, autoimmune disease, hormone resistance, etc, etc. They should be figuring out the root cause. They’re not. Therefore, they can’t treat it.

                  It’s up to you what you want to do next, but this is my suggestion: fire the doctors treating your thyroid and find new ones that actually know how to @#$% to treat hypothyroidism. If you were diagnosed with ADHD after you were hypothyroid, it’s quite possible you might not even have it. Because hypothyroidism can cause those symptoms. (Although you could, so don’t discount it completely–it’s totally one of the reasons why I’m late to work sometimes, ha.)

                  Hypothyroidmom has a list of 30 online resources for finding good hypothyroid doctors in your area; I do sometimes side-eye some of her stuff, but she’s right about what tests they should be running. You can get them done independently, too. Sometimes you can find doctors by googling your area with some hypothyroidism keywords. That’s why I only had to fire a single doctor; because I immediately found one that was on my plan that knew what he was doing.

              2. Batshua*

                As of this week, I have contacted the two practices in the area purported to do T3 related stuff. Unfortunately, they are both a bit more woo than I’d like, but if they’re the only folks who’ll do it, I guess that’s what we’ve got.

        2. LilySparrow*

          Have you tried porcine thyroid (if you are able?) It’s made under Armour or Naturethroid. It’s not woo, it’s in the pharmacopea, and it’s pretty cheap because it’s been around forever. Dr prescribed it, insurance covers it.

          I had much better symptom control on dessicated porcine thyroid (especially brain fog and fatigue) than on levothyroxine. From what I’ve read, it’s because there are traces of multiple thyroid hormones.

          I have Hashimotos’, by the way, and was diagnosed ADHD about 10 years after discovering the Hashimoto’s.

          1. SpaceNovice*

            It’s DEFINITELY not woo. In fact, Natural Desicated Thyroid was the more effective medication in the only comparison study ever done. Formulas give even amounts from pill to pill now; things were fixed, but doctors are still taught that they weren’t. There is WP Thyroid, NP Thyroid, and Nature-Throid; Armour got reformulated and people have reported problems, so I’d consider avoiding it.

            ADHD and Hashimoto’s here, too; it’s pretty common, supposedly!

          2. Batshua*

            I did try … uh, bovine thyroid for a while? I think porcine is closer to being bioidentical, but I wanted to try cow first. I got mine OTC, which makes me a tad nervous that it might not’ve been totally legit, but I think one of the things I’m gonna do when I see my endos is discuss getting a totally insane level workup (test ALL the things) and BEG for some T3.

          3. Batshua*

            Officially I have subclinical hypothyroidism that may or may not be Hashimoto’s.

            My bloodwork often looks fine, but I basically have most/all of the symptoms of having hypothyroidism.

            On top of everything else, I have fibromyalgia, and there’s some anectdata that says people with fibro can’t convert T4 to T3 properly or as efficiently; however, I don’t think a proper study has been done yet, so my internet research is taken with a grain of salt by my providers.

    2. LilySparrow*

      60 mg and nothing?
      Holy cow.

      I hope you get the medical side sorted soon, and I’m glad the LICSW was helpful.

      1. Batshua*

        Yup. Today is day 1 of Ritalin.

        I don’t see either endo until June (they’re both booked out), but when I do see folks, I’m gonna do ALL THE BLOODWORK and beg them to do something about my T3.

        (I am tired of gaining weight every year for no apparent reason, too. It’s getting old. I want to be able to buy clothes and wear them long enough that they need replacing NOT because they no longer fit! )

        1. Batshua*

          I got up to 40 mg of Ritalin before I gave up. That exceeded the recommended dose by 10 mg. Oops.

  130. Infinity*

    My office culture does not respond well to trying to cut chit-chat short. I’ve tried a variety of methods, not engaging in conversation, not asking follow up questions, getting up to refill my water bottle, politely stating that I’m in the middle of something. I get a long with most people here (this is unusual for my office) and have no “clique” (also unusual), so I’m who most people want to spend their 10 minutes of social time with. But after the third or fourth person it’s too much of my time. People come to my desk, stop me in the hallway. I enjoy my friendships at work, with everyone from management to the custodians and people I regularly talk with to people I see once a month. But sometimes I just want to be left alone. And I can’t seem to make that happen.

    For example, I’ve been at work for 2 hours. A stopped by for 30 min, B rotated in as A was walking out and after 10min I got up to get water. B said good bye, I was walking back to my desk and C (who was having a one sided conversation with me) followed me to my desk and was here for 20 min. An hour of chit chat.

    My boss is not helpful. He’s generally not nice to people, very condescending, and also much of the awkward engineer stereotype–he has no issues being left alone (but even he and I get along, and so sometimes he is also the problem here!). I’ve raised this issue to him and his only response has been “So you’re problem is people are talking to you?” And has offered no help or support.

    I want to balance maintaining these otherwise good working relationships with not having to engage in 30min of talk each time someone wants to say hi. This is a government office, and so I know part of it is everyone assumes no one wants to be doing their work. Do I have to reside myself to being the Office B* occasionally to accomplish this? I was labeled the Office B* the day I cut everyone but my boss short because I was on a big deadline for someone in the ivory tower… it was “Wow, Infinity, you’re really in a mood.” At the end of the day, I certainly was. Why, even with a looming deadline, do I have to cater to everyone? How do I make this stop? Is this just my price of admission to this job? #endrant

    1. fposte*

      Right now your list of things you’ve tried seems to be missing the key thing: explicitly asking people to stop talking to you. I can’t swear that you can always manage that without ruffling anybody’s feathers, but there are ways to do it that generally don’t. “I’m on a socialization diet today–I can’t talk to anybody until lunchbreak!” Somebody else here had a color-coded sign–green for you may approach, red for you’re not reachable. Get people on your side: “Hey, can you guys help me? I need to cut down on my socialization habit and to be fair I have to do it across the board. Can you guys help me keep to my goal here?”

      Sometimes it may mean that people think you’re in a mood; at most workplaces it’s more important that you be able to get your work done than your co-workers be able to feel loved by socializing with you extensively. I can’t tell from your boss’s reaction whether this is one or not, but in general, getting the work done is more important than doing exactly what makes your co-workers happy.

      1. Millennial Lawyer*

        That strikes me as a very… odd thing to say. I would not recommend that. You can just be up front and say “Hey, I need to focus on finishing something up right now – mind if we talk later?”

        1. fposte*

          It’s an odd way to approach it because it’s a workplace with odd practices. OP currently isn’t going to be backed up by her manager if she goes the direct route.

          1. Millennial Lawyer*

            But this isn’t an issue that warrants backup from management (and I don’t see how your strategy changes that). If OP tells people “I’m on a socialization diet” people won’t know what she’s talking about/what that means, and might even think she was weird or being unusually passive aggressive.

            It’s also not a weird office culture thing to talk to someone for 20 minutes, especially if she’s not being direct with them that she doesn’t want to!

            1. fposte*

              Sure, in a reasonable office. But she’s gotten in trouble from management for saying she doesn’t want to talk to somebody because she has to work. She definitely needs buy-in from management now. And she is in an office culture where it *is* weird not to talk to somebody for 20 minutes. This isn’t simply a “use your words” situation.

              She doesn’t have to repeat my suggestions verbatim; what I’m suggesting is strategizing her relationships so people feel like they’re affiliating with her by keeping things short rather than affiliating with her by keeping the conversation going. Right now she’s got a boss who isn’t managing except to pass along complaints; his goal seems to be hearing the least possible from his staff. This isn’t somebody who’s going to sensibly respond to a complaint with “OP is warm and professional with you and that’s all she’s required to be, and work has to be her first priority while she’s here.” She therefore has to either move on, or figure out a way that makes supporting her less trouble than supporting people who complain about her.

              1. Millennial Lawyer*

                I totally agree with your explanation. I think I was just thinking about if someone said to me “Hey, I’m on a socialization diet, can you help me??” I’d be like um, what are you talking about? But basically you’re suggesting something like “I’ve been trying to be better at not getting sidetracked/lose focus – hope you can understand and help me out with that!” I think that’s still probably going to come down to politely ending chit chat and just dealing with people thinking that she’s being rude when she’s not.

                1. fposte*

                  Yup, that’s where I’m headed. And I agree that people may just think she’s rude when she’s not. In most workplaces, I would say “Let them think that weird thing; it’s okay for them to take it as you being in a mood,” but since her boss has mishandled this in the past, I would loop him in proactively to make sure she’s not perceived as ignoring his previous input.

      2. Infinity*

        “but in general, getting the work done is more important than doing exactly what makes your co-workers happy.”

        You would think. But even when I was on the deadline, that was generally understood to be important, no one respected or took well to my requests and attempts to just work.

        1. fposte*

          And if you’re at a workplace where you get in more trouble for not socializing than for not working, that’s the workplace you’re in, and you may have to love it or leave it.

          But I’m still feeling like there still might be some undercommunication going on here between you and your boss. While you can’t fix him, you can ask more directly for what you want with him as well as with your co-workers, or ask him more directly what his priorities are. “Boss, I’d like to do more work and less socialization. I think I can stay friendly and collegial while doing that. Do you have any suggestions for how best to do that?” You can add “I know some people might be taken aback that I’m not as available for non-work conversations; as long as I’m careful to stay friendly and polite, are you willing to support me in doing more work and less socializing?”

          I think basically he doesn’t want to hear about stuff, so you’re asking for him to either rubberstamp your existing plan or take the specific action of saying that he wants you to work less. You’re also getting this plan on the record in case people say that you wouldn’t play with them any more.

    2. Millennial Lawyer*

      This definitely not a bring to your boss issue… I can totally see why he was confused. You’re a person and you’re entitled to politely say “I’m actually on a time crunch, mind if we chat another time?” And close your door if you have an office door!

      1. Infinity*

        I have said similar to this, and was reported to my boss for not being polite. Honest, what I said was probably along the lines of “Hey, I’m really trying to keep my head down and work, do you mind if I stop by on Friday?” without a smile or grand apologies. So, that’s when I was discussing it with my boss. My conversation with him stemmed from someone stating that I have poor customer service, and my boss told me to smile more.
        I can see how what I originally wrote made it seem as though I approached him “woe is me, people are talking.” Also, no office door. Cube-warrior here.

        1. Millennial Lawyer*

          I’m confused, were you reported to your boss for what you said to your colleague about needing to get back to work? Or was there a separate issue about poor customer service and at that meeting this issue with the coworker was also brought up?

          Maybe the issue is tone here and not the substance of what you’re saying. I get cutting apologies (nothing to apologize for!) but a smile or just a softer tone when saying that might go along way? Or you just have mega sensitive coworkers? I’m not sure!

          1. Infinity*

            I was reported for not being super nice about telling the colleague I wasn’t going to have a non-work related conversation (she was venting about selling her house). It was called a customer service issue because anytime we interface with another group of our office, it’s “customer service.” Which is completely incorrect, we’re all one government agency. I’m an attorney who frequently weighs in on contracts issues, but the contracting officers are not my customer. And, a conversation about selling a house is not work related, so it’s even further from a so-called customer service issue. But I digress.

            I disagree regarding tone, but then again we’re strangers on the internet. I’m polite and not disrespectful but, maybe this comes from being a woman in a male dominated field, I do not smile for the sake of smiling or to make other people feel better.

            I think fposte was able to articulate what I was unable to and it gets to the heart of the answer to my rant. I’m “in an office culture where it *is* weird not to talk to somebody for 20 minutes” and my problem is it is 20 minutes of everyone else’s time, but a multiple of 20 for my time. This would not have been a problem at old law firm job, as everyone was profoundly aware of where their time goes thanks to the billable hour. So this is a price of admission to this job, and I have to deal with it. And maybe become the office curmudgeon. I’d get a lot of work done, anyway.

            1. fposte*

              There’s something about you being an attorney that makes this especially ridiculous to me.

            2. Millennial Lawyer*

              I… the fact that you are an attorney and it’s called a “customer service issue.” I have no words. That is strange!

    3. valentine*

      Is everyone else able to get a lot done despite all the chatting? Take a week or two and tally how much more you could’ve done without the constant visiting. If you have billable hours or there’s any money involved, note it. Your boss seems useless as well as guilty on this front, but maybe it’s worth it to ask how you were meant to meet that deadline while chatting withe everyone. Does he know it’s costing you an entire morning hour, for example? Does he think all your interactions are customer service? Are there any men who have to endure this?

  131. Marble Rye*

    I have animosity towards a previous employer. I have been happy in a new position but the PTSD from that oldjob still manifests in my interactions newjob. It doesn’t help that oldjob is contracted with my newjob. They are doing a horrible job at their contract and there are a lot of questions being raised about their credibility and suspicions of fraud.
    Long story short, my previous job was very unethical. Think along the lines of being paid to make teapots but not actually making teapots, just lying on paper about teapot production and collecting the money from the contract. Management was horrible and ignored complaints about ageism, harassment, low pay, horrible benefits. Their motto was: “Eh, if everyone quits we’ll just find new suckers to work for us.” I’m still friends with previous employees and they are in shambles with mass quitting. Although I was very upfront about the problems with my manager, and even gave her notice that unfortunately I would have to look elsewhere due to extremely low pay (for the area, kind of work and what similar companies were paying) for loads of work (unethical work). She said she understood but would prefer if I didn’t leave. Numerous times she made it seem like she was trying to work something out for pay or upward mobility only for nothing to come to fruition even when there were open positions. After I quit I found out she wasn’t attempting at all. She even told former coworkers she was appalled that I resigned and if she had ANY idea that I wasn’t happy with pay that she would have worked something out. I also found that she wasn’t relaying my concerns to her boss who really liked me and wanted to advance me to positions but would jokingly say: “Your boss will never let you go”.
    I’m somewhat amused that they are going up in flames and having mass exits. They’re also teetering on losing their contracts. Their reviews on Glassdoor and Indeed are horrible (rightfully so). I hear when newjob complains about them daily. If newjob straight out asked what was my experience there and why is there so much turnover/suspicious data, I am inclined to tell the absolute truth.

    1. valentine*

      If you’re going to stay in newjob for any length of time, cut back as much as you can on the oldjob talk, even if it means taking a break from your current/former friends there. See if you feel better, the same, or worse. If it’s not related to your current role, you’ve no good reason to suffer it at all. If finding a well-paying job not associated with oldjob is possible, though, that’s the best path. The more you reduce your exposure, the better.

  132. dragon_heart*

    A month or so ago I posted that my friend was put on PIP and here is the update plus questions.

    Background:
    The PIP ends at the end of this month, April 30th. So far he is getting good feedback but his boss did not say you are in the clear, because you need to wait for the last day of PIP to formally say he is off it? But since we all know PIPs usually don’t work out, he went job hunting. He was able to receive an offer today.

    This new company’s offer salary wise is just equal to the current job, without the current flexi-time that he enjoys. He says this new company based on what he knows during his interviews will not further his career, and in fact he thinks the new organization is chaotic with no processes in place.

    Under normal circumstances (if he wasn’t on PIP) he will turn down this offer.

    So the question is:
    He needs to reply to the new company in a few days time. Does he turn it down or does he accept the offer? If he will pass his PIP he would turn them down but is there a way of knowing before the end of the month? Also this guy isn’t someone who can afford to be out of a job. The safest route would be for him to accept the offer and rescind it later but I told him not to do that for obvious reasons.

    Any help/advice is appreciated. TIA!

    1. H.C.*

      It really depends on how your friend sees himself in current company vs new company; he says that he will not further his career in the new company, but he will likely be stagnant for a while in the current company too (having a PIP = unlikely to receive promotion or merit-based raises for a year or two); at the new company, he can also have a clean slate as far as his professional reputation goes. That being said, if the new company is as chaotic as your friend perceives, he may be better off focusing on performing well in his current company and continue job searching.

      Also, is there any room to negotiate with the new company (RE: pay, flex time, etc.)? Those are worth asking about for their sakes alone, and may buy a little bit more time before he has to give a solid accept/decline on their offer.

      1. dragon_heart*

        He did ask for more money but the hiring manager said that it was their budget so the pay is final unfortunately.

    2. BRR*

      Depending on his relationship with his manager, can he just be upfront about it? I was on a PIP at my last job and because there was the very real possibility I wouldn’t have a job, I didn’t have to tip toe around the issue that I was job hunting.

      But depending what the PIP is for, there’s the very real possibility that even if he passes it one minor slip up will bring back all the doubt his manager has. The basis for that argument being there’s a reason he’s on the PIP in the first place. If his other job history is consistent, can he take this chaotic job knowing that it will be a short stint?

    3. valentine*

      He should turn down the new job and hold out for something he thinks he can do well in and commit to for however long it would take to make it a positive following a firing.

  133. Anonymous but Happy*

    Re: Should you have to ask for a raise?
    I have a happy story to share regarding this previous post from February, which I read with great interest because my boss had asked me to rewrite my job description because she suspected I was being underpaid. She forwarded the information to HR back in December and we’ve been waiting for them to complete the market research ever since. I’ve been fed up with waiting and started to do my own research and was preparing to ask for a 10% raise. Before I could find the right time/get up my courage, my boss calls me into her office and offers a 30% increase in my pay retroactive to when we first asked HR!! So some employers do it right and my boss rocks! (And good thing I didn’t get a chance to low-ball myself there…)

  134. Yams*

    How do you guys deal with crying at work? I’m not talking about crying about a work situation, it’s more like I’m super upset about something completely unrelated and I’m a hot mess crying everywhere. Unfortunately I have to deal with vendors and customers all freaking day long and I can’t take a sick day today since they’ve spread my meetings through the day. Help. Gah, I wish I could just go cry in peace at home but I gotta work today :(!

    1. Blue*

      Do you have a private place you can hide for a bit, even if it’s just 15 minutes? I know I personally find it really difficult to compose myself when there are people nearby making me feel (more) uncomfortable.

      1. Yams*

        My office is semi-private, but my boss keeps popping in and I have to be constantly “on” with my responsible-confident-adult-who’s-totally-not-crying voice.

        1. LizB*

          Do you have a good enough relationship with your boss to let them know you’ve got something difficult going on? “Hey, boss, just FYI I have a situation happening in my personal life right now that’s really throwing me for a loop today. It’s nothing you need to worry about, and I’m fine to get through the day, but if it looks like I’m a little upset today between meetings, that’s probably why.” This might make them leave you alone (or offer to help you rearrange your schedule to take the day off).

          1. Yams*

            Well, the guy literally told me to download pornhub and head to the restroom to relax, so I would say it’s not the greatest.
            I’m not even joking btw lol. I really do avoid spending time with my boss as much as I can. But I think I’m just going to finish some work I need to do in the server and then sneak out to a long lunch that lasts until Monday.

    2. Millennial Lawyer*

      Do you have a private bathroom stall somewhere? That way you can be on a bathroom break where no one will bug you, and you can splash some cold water on your face after.

    3. Lumen*

      I find it helpful to just be up-front with your manager.

      “I just wanted to let you know that I’m currently dealing with an upsetting but temporary personal situation. It’s unrelated to work and of course my focus is on putting it out of mind while I’m here and doing good work, but I wanted to give you a heads up in case I seem a little ‘off’.”

      You don’t have to discuss what’s going on, and giving your manager some insight isn’t the same as excusing poor behavior or bad work. It just means they might be more understanding and not pry when you suddenly get up for a bathroom break and come back with a slightly red face and puffy eyes.

      I hope whatever it is gets easier soon.

  135. Blue*

    I have a second round interview next week (yay), and I’m wondering how to best ask about expectations for being available outside work hours and how strict the boss is about watching the clock (i.e. would it be an issue if my train is delayed and I show up 10 minutes late on a random average work day?) These things are important to my day-to-day happiness, so it’s information I’d want to have before deciding to work there, but I also don’t want to come across as a slacker (I’m really not! I work really hard when I’m at work; I just don’t want to worry about it when I’m home.)

    1. LL Cool G*

      I would ask what their expectations are of you for availability outside of work hours and if they offer flex arrival & departure (i.e. usually arrive at 8a but train is late and you arrive at 825am but still put in 8 hours).

  136. AngelicGamer aka that visually impaired peep*

    Would anybody have some good info / links to how to write a thank you for a rejection from an agent? I’m tossing my book around to different people and feel like I need one in my pocket. Especially since it seems to be rare to get a rejection from an agent as some go with dead silence.

  137. New job advice?*

    I’m a college senior who recently got offered my first job after graduation (yay!!) Any advice for a new job generally and my first real office job specifically?

    1. Murphy*

      Congrats!

      I would say pay attention to other people to learn what’s normal and expected of you in terms of office culture, wardrobe, etc. And don’t be afraid to ask questions if you’re unsure.

    3. Curious Cat*

      Congrats on graduation & first job! I graduated last year and began my first job about a month after graduation. It was a really weird transition and I had to keep reminding myself that I was in this job for the long haul & that it wasn’t an internship (as August grew closer I felt like I was leaving soon, but then once August passed and younger friends went back to college, it settled in that yes, this is a full-time gig). Also don’t be afraid to ask questions. It’s better to ask and find out the right answer than operate under the wrong assumptions. I’m at almost 1 year and I’m still asking questions. You’re in a junior position so no one expects you to know everything! You’re learning & growing and hopefully you’ll have coworkers who are willing to help you out along the way.

      1. grace*

        This was the weirdest part – I kept thinking I was going to have to start packing! I started right after grad (like the Monday after) and I kind of regret it – I wish I’d taken some time to relax, unwind, and travel if possible. I had no money, but still. :-)

        The one thing I wish I’d realized sooner is that (assuming it’s a good place), people want you to succeed! Ask questions, ask co-workers to coffee with you, stay friendly, and assume good intentions. You won’t get as structured feedback, necessarily, as you would with internships, but you’ll be constantly getting feedback – so pay attention to it. I keep notes on what I’ve messed up and after every project ends, keep a log of what I’ve learned and wish I’d known at the start.

        And if you’re living at home, like I was, OWN it. I didn’t try to hide it or pretend like I wasn’t living with my parents – my coworkers didn’t care, and it helped me get over my own hang-ups about it. Actually in general, whatever you’re doing (especially if it’s different from your friends graduating with you), just own it. If you make a mistake, you’re/we’re still young – there’s time to fix it.

        Congrats on the job!! It’s such a weight off your shoulders, but make sure you enjoy the rest of senior spring! It goes by fast. :)

    5. Washi*

      Keep reading AAM regularly! I feel like I’ve learned so much just by reading Alison’s take on different issues, both in terms of concrete knowledge (exempt vs non-exempt, FMLA, what is illegal vs. just crappy) and soft skills, like being direct but professional.

    6. NoodleMara*

      Make sure to check when your health insurance starts and you’ll still be covered until then! I just got my second job after college and had no idea that was a thing

  138. Annoyed anon*

    I want to talk to my boss about my coworker not informing me on work tasks. (I tried to tell her but it hasn’t helped.) But boss and her are friends and I’m worried that it wouldn’t help/isolate me. Plus boss doesn’t like to manage people/ ignores issues. Any advice?

    1. Short & Dumpy*

      Could you approach it from the other direction? “hey boss, I was wondering if you could give me some tips on the best way to communicate with Lucy? You two get along so well, but you know there was the situation where I didn’t find out about xyz…how do you two work so you don’t run into that?” over and over and over w/ every communication glitch

      (okay, so I’m probably dreaming…)

  139. Afiendishthingy*

    Toxic Control Freak coworker is still toxic and controlling, but I think I’m doing an ok job of asserting my boundaries this week. TCF and I and one other woman are peers, share an office, each have a caseload of 6 classrooms to which we consult. She went behind my back and emailed MY team about a client on MY caseload when I was out sick Monday. She cc’ed a bunch of people— including Neutral 3rd Peer- but not me. I called her on it, she lied to me about the content of the email, tried to say a million times it wasn’t my concern because it was an administrative paperwork issue that I didn’t need to be involved in because I’m just covering a maternity leave, got mad enough to lose her constant fake smile. I held my ground and repeated “if it’s my class, I need to be copied on the email. Please forward it to me” (a team member had already shown me the email, but I didn’t tell her that.)

    I got the email. This was two days ago and she hasn’t poisoned me yet. Or if she has I’m immune. Either way, SUCCESS

  140. many bells down*

    A second variation on the “gifting upward” question: the museum I volunteer with has a very popular exhibit that’s finally closing in a month after being extended for two years. The curator of this particular exhibit is a big fan of the work in general, and of one specific piece in particular – I know, because we’ve had quite a few conversations about the exhibit over the last couple of years, and I’m also a huge fan of the work.

    I’d like to give him something I’ve found that represents the specific thing he’s a fan of, as a thanks for the last two years I’ve spent talking to guests about something I really love. It’s not expensive. But I wonder if it’s maybe too personal for a random volunteer to give him a small gift. I don’t work directly under him, but he’s obviously above me in the hierarchy. Maybe I could have my boss give it to him as a “Thanks from all your EXHIBIT volunteers!”

    1. LizB*

      I almost think that because you’re a volunteer, the gifting-up rules don’t apply as much. The curator doesn’t have the power to hire and fire you, you’re not getting your income from this position, you’re not trying to get anything out of the gift and it sounds like you’re not splashing out a huge amount of money on it. To me, it’s more like you’re in a community of like-minded people together rather than a relationship with the complicated power dynamics of boss-employee. I’d say go for it.

    2. LostInTheStacks*

      I think this would almost count on the same level as the “thoughtful, handwritten card” option that people throw around all the time on AAM as appropriate options for gifting up. Something inexpensive, thoughtful, and clearly related to a specific aspect of the job is the kind of thing people like getting, and the power dynamic isn’t as wonky as it would be if you were getting something more “impressive.”

  141. Liane*

    I just wanted to tell you the great way I saw my boss, Hypatia, & coworkers handle a medical issue at work, because Alison gets all the How Not To’s.
    A few weeks ago, 1 of my fellow pages, Rose, had an issue with very low blood sugar. (She has Type I diabetes, she told me later.) I was working with her at the time and she was getting very frustrated and confused because the computer didn’t seem to working right, which I didn’t realize might be a symptom. (Plus only a few days into the job, I didn’t know Rose well enough to tell she wasn’t acting like herself.)
    So I called over Sabine, a librarian, to ask about task because I wasn’t yet familiar enough to figure out what Rose & I were doing wrong with the program. Sabine realized what was happening and got Rose to the breakroom. Hypatia came over to check on her as well. She told Rose to eat and just sit until she felt better, or decided she needed to leave. As I resumed the task, I overheard Sabine talking to Rose, coaxing her to eat, check her sugar again, etc., because she was still out of it enough to not want to do anything. I thought it was so kind of Sabine to take care of her.
    A few days later, Hypatia emailed all that Rose would be on leave for a “few weeks,” and she needed some coverage. No details, which was right. When she overheard me a couple weeks later telling a coworker I hoped Rose would be able to come back, Hypatia came over and kindly told us they were working on it. No info she shouldn’t give out, no grumbling because we were concerned.
    I was glad to know how great everyone was, a few days after Rose went on leave, when I got a migraine at work, because I knew I could just tell Hypatia, “I got a migraine, was just sick, I really need to leave,” and not worry about how she’d react. Which was, “Of course, you’ve only got an hour left anyways and you don’t have to make up time because today is all extra hours for you. Feel better.”

    And Rose came back this week! She and the doctor are working on finding out what’s going on. Please note that *all* I know about Rose’s medical stuff she chose to tell me. I didn’t ask, just told her I was glad she was back and hoped she was better.

    Let’s hear it for Good Bosses and Coworkers!

    1. SpaceNovice*

      That’s a wonderful workplace. I’m really glad you’re there–and that Rose was somewhere that she got the help she needed right when she needed it.

  142. Akcipitrokulo*

    There is nothing like a meeting where there’s been a new interactive whitescreen installed to prove that we are actually a department of children :)

        2. Master Bean Counter*

          Yeah, I’d be a child in that situation too! At least the meeting wasn’t boring.

  143. Book Badger*

    General venting: at this rate, I’m looking at NO jobs until after I pass the bar. And that’s IF I pass the bar. No job I’ve found is willing to take on someone who isn’t barred, even if experience is negotiable (I’m looking at public interest jobs and I understand that they can’t afford to be as free with their job offers as Big Law can be). Problem is, I graduate in May, and won’t find out my results until October or November. So I can start my job search as early as… six months from now! Hurray!

    I’m thinking at this point I might as well just pick A Bar Exam instead of trying to pick The Right One Bar Exam for The Job That Wants Me, but I’m dithering. What if I get an offer in California right after I decide to take the Massachusetts bar? What if that fellowship that requires sitting the 2018 Ohio Bar calls me back right after I tell the study prep people that I’ve made up my mind? GAH.

  144. I Love Thrawn*

    I live in Tallahassee, FL, which is just a city plunked down in a forest, with a large lake nearby. Yesterday at work a lady called in to say we have a gator in our holding pond, up by the main road. Little guy, 3 – 4 feet. Of course I had to run down there and look – and took my cell phone with me, because we love our pictures.

    I couldn’t get too close to him, so my pictures aren’t great. But it was fun to see him. Won’t be as much fun when he’s an 8 footer though. Florida Game & Fish will send a biologist to evaluate him. Under 4 feet, he gets relocated. Over 4 feet… well… And yes, if you are wondering, gators are indeed all over in Florida. Especially in drought conditions, they can end up anywhere, including swimming pools. Anyway, that was the excitement for the day.

  145. T3k*

    How do you decide if moving to another country for a job is worth it? I’ve been looking for a new job since my contract ended a month ago and am in a position where I could move to easily (don’t own a house, no partner). The kicker is there are certain countries that don’t really appeal to me as much as others (for example, eastern Europe), but the job sounds great. How do you weigh the pros and cons there?

    1. AeroEngineer*

      Eastern Europe can be really great depending on which city you are located.

      However, one thing to keep in mind is the pay. I have a friend working in Prague who loves loves it there, but with the exchange rate and his pay, he relatively makes/is able to save very little in terms of dollars or euros, even though he lives very comfortably there. That would be my biggest concern personally, as I did look in eastern Europe actually and that was a big reason I didn’t follow though (I have a good amount of debt in euros and had absolutely no savings so I needed a higher pay in relation to euros). If I didn’t have the debt or anything, I would definitely consider moving there for some time, as at least in engineering, all the engineers I have met are crazy smart and know their stuff.

  146. Jessica*

    Does anyone have any advice about how to get into consulting (specifically higher ed/student success, but any consulting tips would be welcome). I’ve been involved in higher ed for 6 years with a partner organization, and have consulted internally for a significant period of that. Most consulting firms seem to want an MBA, which I don’t have, but I do have a master’s, and have business experience through my job. Am I fooling myself to think I would be qualified? Are there any important ways I should prepare if I want to eventually make this transition?

  147. Coalea*

    Attending a major conference in a few weeks where a colleague and I will be responsible for summarizing key presentations and highlighting their relevance to our client’s product in real time, plus developing a comprehensive report to be distributed in the weeks after the meeting. We’ve done this several times in the past and my colleague has a tendency to both cut corners and miss deadlines. I tried to circumvent this with a written timeline in advance to set expectations, but I have a terrible feeling he’s still going to flake out and leave me holding the bag. I’ve already assigned all the work so that I’m carrying the bulk of it, so if I have to pick up his slack as well, I’m going to be royally pissed. I’ve flagged my concerns to the relevant higher-ups, but there’s not really anything that can be done. Pray for me!

  148. An Elephant Never Baguettes*

    I am in a Llama Grooming trainee position rn which ends soon with no chance of it becoming permanent and as such, I have been looking around and interviewing.

    I had an interview with a company which is one of the bigger ones in my field for Llama Grooming assistant, but during the interview I noticed that it’s not really what I want to do – I managed some of my own projects as part of my traineeship and that’s what I enjoyed most and a position which is 90% support and 10% my own projects wasn’t what I was looking for (it was ambiguous in the job opening – I knew there were some areas I would be handling on my own and I was hoping it would be more of a 60-40 split). So even though I felt the interview went well, I walked out of there pretty sure they would reject me, especially because I also couldn’t start anywhere near their start date (in my country, 3 months notice is the norm and they ideally wanted someone to start about 2 weeks later).

    I got the rejection a while ago and put it out of my mind. But this week the Llama Grooming Director (who interviewed me) sent me a mail saying that while they chose someone else for the Llama Grooming Assistant, they have an opening for an 18 months maternity cover as a Llama Grooming Manager and whether I would be interested in applying. I have until Monday to decide whether I want to throw my hat in the ring (which… obviously I do) and I will probably/hopefully be directly called in for another interview.

    I am honestly just very excited they remembered me for this opening especially since it is a bit of a stretch job for me, experience-wise, and just the chance to interview for it is great. The director did say when I called to say I was interested and ask what the next steps were that it might be a bit of a stretch for me and I might not be ready yet – but I figure that since they kept me in mind and contacted me they must on some level think I could do this, so now it is just a matter of showing them that I will be able to step up!

  149. Kracken*

    Maybe I’m being paranoid, maybe not, but I’m afraid ive taken too much time off. Ive been at my job for 4 months. When I started I had a 2 week vacation planned that I told them about. Then over the course of those 4 months life just happened: my dog died, my partner got injured, and I got sick twice. I think total I’ve take note 4 sick days so far. I don’t plan on taking more but you never know. I don’t want to look lazy.

  150. Piano Girl*

    My husband teaches theatre at a local high school. He has been at this school for twenty-five years, and as such has been responsible for an aging facility, including keeping an antiquated sound and lighting system going. The equipment is obsolete and unrepairable. The ironic thing is, that the district has purchased equipment that would at least partially replace these aging systems, but it is sitting in a district warehouse (we have confirmed the purchase with the one of the original vendors).
    So why hasn’t it been installed? Because before that happens, the bathrooms in the theatre need to be rebuilt to conform to ADA standards. We were only informed of this since my husband has announced he is planning on retiring at the end of this school year, and they would like him to return. It is our understanding that the theatre is supposed to undergo some remodeling next year (he would be required to move his classroom for at least the first semester, but apparently this does NOT include the bathroom remodeling that is so needed, although other bathrooms on campus are being fixed). In the meantime, my husband is been working on a way to utilize the equipment without having to attach it to the building, thus circumventing the requirement that the bathrooms be updated before previously-purchased equipment can be used.
    Here’s my question – if the repairs/remodeling is going to be extensive enough that he would need to move his classroom, would it not be reasonable to think that these repairs should not be able to be done before the bathroom remodeling? If he can’t have decent sound equipment which has already been purchased installed, how can they work on much of anything else?
    I would love to have some input from anybody here that has dealt with having to be ADA-compliant, building-wise. Please understand that I don’t begrudge these repairs – although the bathroom does have a handicapped stall, it would be hard to negotiate a wheelchair in there – I just don’t understand how there can be restrictions on one type of upgrade and not on another. Thanks!

  151. Quinoa*

    I GOT THE JOB I GOT THE JOB I GOT THE JOB I GOT THE JOB!!!!!

    I posted at the tail end of this thread last Saturday morning that I had a big deal interview that went well, in large part thanks to all of the resources available on AskAManager. Yesterday morning, I got the job offer. I start my dream job in a new career field a week from Monday. (After a spectacular small business fail and over a year of desperate job hunting.)

    I just wanted to say thank you again to Alison and all of the lovely commenters on this site who provide SO MUCH helpful advice about the process.

    8. Quinoa*

      Thank you everyone! I can’t even begin to express how exciting this is for me. It feels like such a great cultural fit, and the day after I accepted the offer, my new boss emailed me to say how much she is looking forward to having me on her team. I still can’t believe my good fortune.

  152. Review I Don't Resemble*

    I have a mindset of personal continuous improvement. I am the type that actually values constructive feedback. Nonetheless, this year I received a negative appraisal with that does not reflect my accomplishments and has no actionable input I can use for improvement. The negative statements made in the review are easily countered with tangible work products to back up my claims.

    I desperately want to apply for other jobs within my company because I perceive the team I’m on to be a hostile work environment and I worry this review may limit my opportunities within the company. I want to point out the logical fallacies of the review and have it on my record for anyone who might be evaluating me based on performance reviews. I don’t want to be perceived as tone deaf or unwilling to own my areas for improvement. My question for open thread are: Are carefully written review rebuttals even worth the effort?

    1. Nancypie*

      Hello friend. I think it will make you feel better to write this rebuttal. I’d love to hear from others what they would think if they saw this (if potential hiring managers are able to access th review of potential internal hires).

    2. Former Retail Manager*

      I’m not sure where you work, but where I work (federal Govt) you can write a rebuttal and I believe that it becomes part of the record, along with the review. Assuming that this happens at your workplace, I absolutely believe that you should do it for two reasons:
      1) It will make you feel better (that sooooo matters)
      2) It is there for any future manager to see who may be considering you for another position and who may know that your dept/mgr are hostile.

      As an aside, does your entire team feel that it’s a hostile work environment or is it just you? (i.e. does the manager hate everyone or just you?) What is the manager’s reputation in the company among other managers? If it’s bad, I’d personally put out feelers to other departments to see what’s available (peer to peer) and try to get a read on both opportunities in general as well as how you might be perceived if you try to leave your current dept and manager. And then I’d proceed accordingly.

      1. Review I Don't Resemble*

        I am in on location and there a number of others on my team in a different location where my manager is. I have heard from them that there is a clique in that location and if you are not in that clique, they find reasons to give you a poor review. So there are definitely others on my team who feel the same way. Others who report to my manager’s peers also feel the same way, the problem seems to go beyond my manager and lands at least one step above her. I had reported to one of her peers who did something so bad I had to file an ethical complaint against him and I received an even worse review that year. I really want to go to upper management but am afraid it will destroy my career there.

  153. De Minimis*

    Found out my department [of four people] will be the first group to move out of our building and into a “co-working” space with other companies. It sounds miserable. Has anyone else ever worked in one of these environments, where multiple companies all rent desks and/or offices? We’re renting a single office with 4 desks. I’m supposed to see what it looks like next week but I am dreading it.

    1. BadWolf*

      I only know people who work in them because they choose too. Like they normally would work from home, but want to be somewhere separate/more office/with other people/etc.

      I know some spaces offer different packages. One local one starts at “pay for a day” and goes up to “book the same desk everyday so it can be “your” space.”

      1. De Minimis*

        We’re paying each month for the office, and this is going to be our permanent location, though we’ll probably eventually rent more “hot desks” as needed.

        One positive is that just about all of us will no longer be in the office full time, so there will only be a couple of days a week where we will all be crammed in the same space. I’m still not sure how some of our processes will translate to the new environment.

    2. zora*

      We are currently in a coworking space, have two private offices. We kind of love it. We are a small team, and it’s nice to have other people around, instead of just us in a tiny little office.

      We get all kinds of perks that the coworking staff handles. They make fancy fruit water in our kitchen every morning. Some floors have kombucha or cold brew coffee on tap. Yesterday there was a cheese tasting, and we got a bunch of yummy cheese for free.

      The flexibility of the space is really nice. There are multiple conference rooms we can book depending on our needs, and the offices are month to month, so when we hire up it’s quick and easy to get more space.

      We have all glass walls, so the noise from other offices/the kitchen is a bit annoying sometimes. Sometimes my coworkers get frustrated when it’s been particularly loud and they go try to find a quiet space for a while. We are on the phone a lot in our jobs, so we can’t really have one person per desk, we pay for more desks than we technically use so that people are a little more spread out. And sometimes it’s a bit of a scramble to find a phone room if you have a long call where you need quiet.

      But our company’s other offices are all totally open plan at this point, so I would prefer the set up we have, honestly. One thing that really helps is our boss is very realistic about how much space we need and how many phone calls we have to do, so she makes the call that we pay more for enough space to spread out a little bit. So, that helps.

      Honestly, we get a much nicer, fancier looking space than we would be able to afford with commercial real estate rates in this city, so we are pretty happy with the setup. And some of our coworkers from other offices are kind of jealous when they come visit. But yes, the few people with private offices are totally freaked out and “don’t know how we do it.” But they have private offices, which Iwouldn’t have at their site anyway.

        1. zora*

          haha, Yep! Separately, our company is big on culture stuff and our team and boss are really into food and wine, so a few times a year we have a nice happy hour with some fancy cheeses and snacks and a nice bottle of wine, all on the office budget. It is definitely a big upside for me personally.

          But also everyone here is really nice and friendly, and my boss is a nice person to work for.. but the free cheese definitely helps me put up with the annoying stuff! ;o)

  154. ANon.*

    I’d like to update my resume/LinkedIn profile with my current position, but I’m struggling to find a way to write about my current position without it sounding like a step down from my last position… because it kind of is.

    My last job was way above my level, and while I was able to accomplish a ton there (a fact that I’m quite proud of!), I ultimately left it for a job that better suits my level of experience and where I can grow and learn. But how do I frame this on my resume/LinkedIn? The only solution I can think of would be to minimize the extent of my accomplishments at my previous job, but I’d hate to do that. Is there a better way to handle this?

    1. Schnoodle*

      I actually only put my job title and company of my latest company…until I’m actually job searching! Sounds like you recently made this move and happy about it, so I’d suggest just that – leave it as the title and company, no further.

  155. Lindsay J*

    So my boss was fired a little over a month ago.

    They posted his job, and while I had all the qualifications listed, I had only been with the company for about 8 months so far, so I figured I wouldn’t be a serious candidate. In fact, in order to move jobs at all with the company you need to have been there for a year, or have the requirement waived by HR and your boss.

    So I contacted my ex-boss’s boss, who was my acting manager, and the hiring manager for the new position. I told him I was interested in moving up in the company, sent him a cover letter and my resume, along with the in-house form he would need to sign to allow me to apply for the position, and asked him if it made sense for me to apply for the position at this point in time.

    He was honest and said he didn’t know me or my work that well, but that my resume and the cover letter were impressive. He was flying out to talk to me about the transition period anyway, so he said we would do an informal lunch interview at the time, and he’d decide whether he would move forward from there.

    So we did the lunch interview and it went well. He seemed impressed by my answers and we agreed on a lot of the things the department needed from the position.

    He had one other interview he was going to do, an outside candidate that had been referred from another employee.

    He did that interview. Then flew me up to corporate for me to do an official interview with him and with HR, and meet his boss, etc.

    So, I went out there, did the interviews, and I got the job! It’s significantly more responsibility, a lot of travel, and a hefty raise.

    I really owe a significant amount of it to this blog, too. I purchased one of Allison’s resume reviews a few years ago which has helped. I learned how to write non-stuffy cover letters from here (and both the director and the VP mentioned being impressed by things mentioned in my cover letter. I’ve learned a lot about interviewing and management in general from here. And I think all of those things combined to help me put my best foot forward for this position.

    I’ve more than tripled my pay-rate from the beginning of 2015 until now. It’s still a little unreal to me.

    1. nep*

      WOW. What a great story. Inspiring. Good on ya for going for it. You presented your best and focused on all you had going for you for this position — and it paid off. Thanks for sharing. All the best.

    6. Patty*

      That’s awesome! Congratulations. It goes to show that even if the others, “that’s not how it works here”, you should try anyway! Good Luck!

    7. valentine*

      Congratulations. I was worried, but there were no twists. I’m so glad you didn’t talk yourself out of going for it.

  156. Lilo*

    Going off of yesterday’s commuting thread – anybody familiar with commuting in the phoenix area?

    I’m doing a long distance job search and I’m going to be living in Scottsdale. Nothing set yet, ideally as close as possible to fashion square area but it will definitely be in Scottsdale. How bad is commuting if you work in say Gilbert? Or really any of the surrounding areas?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      Traffic into and out of Phoenix is notoriously awful. I haven’t done enough commuting around the burbs to know for sure with like Gilbert to Scottsdale.

      1. De Minimis*

        Look at the Phoenix forum on Reddit, I was looking at relocating to the area a while back and they had a lot of good information.

      2. Hibiscus*

        I am a Phoenix area person–I work in Scottsdale up and down the Scottsdale Road corridor, commuting by bus. I do not think of Gilbert as a surrounding area, and I feel that with the volume of traffic it would be painful.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      I don’t know specifics, but you can get ideas of commuting times by looking on Google maps. You get estimates if you check for times/days that are not current. If you’re doing current time, you get the current traffic estimates. Take a look at various locations over few weeks. Supplement with forums as well.

      1. Emmie*

        I came to suggest this. I recommend mapping places from your home to potential jobs right around the commuting times. You can also stream the Phoenix morning and evening news live online, which shows commute times.

        1. Lilo*

          I tried this last night from Scottsdale to Gilbert (considering applying for an opening there, but wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into) and changed it to the commuting times, but the range was 34mins-1 hour 10 mins coming home, which is a huge range! But streaming the news is a great idea that I hadn’t thought of

          1. SpaceNovice*

            Oh yeah, streaming the news is a great idea. You can’t rely on the average data with that big a range; you’re right! You can do live traffic data from google but only at those times you’d be leaving. (School being out for break or summer really affects commutes, which could explain the range. … or drivers getting into accidents.)

            Also, if you can: pick a place in the area that has at least TWO ways to go home.

          2. Emmie*

            Thanks! I’ve never heard of the google maps feature to estimate commute times. I’ve always mapped two places around rush hour; hit go; and used that for future trips.

    3. What is work?*

      Most commuters from Scottsdale (in the morning) are going to head South on the 101 and then West on the 202 or 60 to head towards downtown Phoenix. You’ll have heavy traffic on that part of your journey. However, once you start heading East from the 101 or South of where the 60 and 101 meet you should have virtually no traffic at all since that’s going away from downtown Phoenix. If you’re living in the Fashion Square area (say Indian School) and travelling during rush hour, I’d guess it’d take you 20-25 minutes to go 8 miles on the 101 to get to the 60, at which point it’ll be 65 mph (or pick your favorite speed) to wherever you need to be in Gilbert/East Valley. Add another 2 minutes per mile that you’re starting North of Indian School.

      1. Hibiscus*

        Oh yeah, now that I reread it, you’re asking about a reverse commute which would be better. I read it as Gilbert INTO Fashion Square and just, no no no.

  157. The New Wanderer*

    Good news: I optimistically gave a high salary expectation to a recruiter and after a day of nail-biting and self-doubt, they got back to me and scheduled a first conversation for next week.

    Bad news: the company I was actively recruited for decided not to offer me an interview at all for a job that, on paper, is a really good fit for my skills and experience. I don’t know why so I don’t know what I could fix about my resume/application to have made that clearer.

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      You can ask, if you want, but if they didn’t even interview you than I would let it go. There’s no way to really know from a job ad how good of a fit you were. Maybe they put Mongoose Juggling under preferred experience, but then they lost their prize Mongoose Juggler and decided it was really more important.

  158. Ed*

    I posted last week how my company is restructuring and wanted us to apply for our own jobs. Anyway, for a few reasons, I’ve decided not to apply and will be unemployed shortly. I’m bloody terrified if I’m honest but realistically I know this is the right decision. I’d have been miserable and resentful. So basically, I’m jumping into the unknown. Scared but still doing it. And my managers pissed at me.

  159. Lumos*

    Awful interview place called me to offer the job. I turned it down so then they literally sat on the phone doing the calculations for how much less money I would make with them versus my current job, mentioned that they give raises occasionally if you do well and then told me to think it over and call back today. -.- nfdkshfiosdhkfnklsj -rageflail- I already had to go through all the anxiety of telling you no. Why won’t you accept my no?

    1. Lumos*

      In other news, it’s library workers appreciation week so they’re taking our desks away and turning them into shared space. We’re getting lockers instead. I feel so appreciated.

    2. LizB*

      Well if you didn’t already know they were going to be awful, their reaction to hearing no sure confirms it! Serious bullet dodged. Just don’t call them back. You gave them an answer.

      1. Lumos*

        I called them to ask some questions and then awkwardly turned it down. I felt like I couldn’t say no because yesterday they made my no so trivial. Then I hung up and called my fiance and ugly cried about it. They said I can still change my mind before monday. This would be my first job actually in my field so I’m dealing with a lot of feels about how turning this down could mean I never break in, even if that logically isn’t true

        1. Akcipitrokulo*

          They are making you feel like this *before* you work for them. It’s ok to believe them when they have shown you how badly they would treat you if you accepted the job and don’t look back.

  160. LizB*

    Manager woes: one of my team members left for another organization a couple weeks ago, and texted me this week saying the new job is terrible and do I still have her position open? I felt so bad telling her I’d already filled it. She was great in this job and I really feel for her. :( :( :(

    1. LizB*

      Regular woes: there is a piece of equipment in my office that is BEEPING and it WON’T STOP and I put in a ticket but nobody has come to fix it yet and I can’t unplug it because there are clearly important things connected to it in ways I don’t understand. OMG MAKE IT STOP.

    2. Not So Super-visor*

      Yeah, that’s hard — especially if you really liked the employee and she did a good job. It was her decision to leave, though. Taking a new job is always a gamble. You could encourage her to apply the next time that you have a position.

  161. rose6677*

    What is the point where it is better to turn in the notice without having an alternative job promised instead of continuing working in a job you hate?

    My colleagues are mostly unfriendly.

    The company culture isn’t very good: horribly disorganised, unstructured. People are told to work on projects which contradict one another. The communication is very bad. You are told to work on A and discover 2 weeks later, your colleague who’s sitting 2 meters from you has been working on that for 3 months.

    I’m underpaid and expected to do unpaid overtime (in my country all overtime needs to be paid). I don’t normally even go to take a lunch (although I have an hour break in my contract), because I don’t have time.

    I hate the thought about going back to the office.

    1. SpaceNovice*

      It’s different for each person, but it’s basically: how much can you put up with before it starts causing you lasting harm. Also, do you have savings? Are there positions easily available in your field? If you can, it’s better financially to stick it out until you find a new job, but sometimes it’s just too much.

    2. Akcipitrokulo*

      Different for everyone. it may help to write it down… what are pros and cons, how likely is it you could get something else and could you survive if you don’t get new job immediately?

      Then you have data for informed decision. Which could reasonably go either way.

      At the moment, for me, I’d be reasonable confident of getting new position and being miserable at work is really bad for me, but don’t have huge savings… so I’d concentrate on building a cushion for a couple of months by paring down everything, and then heading.

  162. Inopportune Moose*

    What’s considered good FMLA etiquette? I am currently out on leave and just going silent on my bosses, which I think is OK– but should I be sending an email every week or two saying “getting better!” or what have you? I am loosely in touch with a couple other people from work (not on my team), if it matters.

    1. fposte*

      Do you have an estimated return date? If so, I don’t think people really should expect to hear from you unless that date changes. (A courtesy “We had the baby!” doesn’t count.)

      1. Inopportune Moose*

        I do– I’m scheduled to be out ~5 weeks, but was originally told that I might be able to come back part time at ~3 weeks. I was clear when I was leaving that doctors said I might well need the full 5, but I suppose it’d be good practice to check in at 3 and say that I will/won’t be able to come back early. Does that sound reasonable?

        1. fposte*

          Yes, that sounds reasonable. They want to know when you’l be back in the office, but they really don’t want to risk interfering with your FMLA in the mean time.

        2. valentine*

          It’s fine not to communicate until your doctor clears you to return. If they don’t hear from you during week 3, they’ll know not to expect you until the return date on your form.

    2. KTemgee*

      As someone who will soon be on FMLA, I came across a section in our employee handbook, that mentions the company expects you to check in every 30 days or so. Nothing hard and fast, but I think that’s a good rule of thumb. I wouldn’t consider it going silent either–you’re out on leave! They know about it =)

    3. Schnoodle*

      Your FMLA letter actually should tell you when you’re expected to check in. It should be on your notice of eligibility and rights letter, page two. States:

      “While on leave you will be required to furnish us with periodic reports of your status and intent to return to work every ______________________.
      (Indicate interval of periodic reports, as appropriate for the particular leave situation). “

    4. Bea*

      You do not need to communicate any sooner than every 30 days.

      Speak with HR about what they require, they may require a new doctors note every 30 days.

      Absolutely not every week, that defeats the purpose of leave. You are not out sick, you are on medical leave. They should only be communicating with you via certified mail and you should only need to submit updated medical leave updates from the doctor stating “Yep, still out on FMLA”.

  163. smoke tree*

    I work as a book editor right now, but the kind of work that’s always appealed to me is something more physical that involves making things. I find it really satisfying to make things and a lot of my hobbies reflect that (pottery, baking, crochet). I’ve considered going into baking professionally or maybe something to do with landscaping/agriculture–and maybe there are other possibilities I haven’t thought about that. Can anyone who has done similar work comment on what they thought of it, how they got into it, and any downsides I might not be considering?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      Listen to the “Dear Handmade Life” podcast and the “While She Naps” podcast, they are all about craft business. I think they might really help you.

      One thing to consider: If you had to make things with your hands for your JOB and if you didn’t tell those things, you couldn’t keep your house, would it take away joy? Do you like running a business? Because that’s a lot of what running any craft type business is about.

      1. Environmental Navy Wife*

        “One thing to consider: If you had to make things with your hands for your JOB and if you didn’t sell those things, you couldn’t keep your house, would it take away joy? Do you like running a business? Because that’s a lot of what running any craft type business is about.”

        ^^Highly agree. This is why I keep a full time unrelated job, and keep my knitting gig as a side gig only, enough to pay for yarn and fun fiber things. I also do design work only now, as when I was selling knit items (usually custom), it got to be hugely frustrating with people devaluing my work because they didn’t necessarily thing about the time/skill that goes into a custom made item. “If I can just get this at Walmart for $10, why would I pay you $40?” Makes me happier when I can easily walk away from projects that wouldn’t bring me joy to make, since I don’t have to rely on the money it brings in. Would I love to knit all day, erryday? Heck yes. But it would suck the joy and fun out of something that I love if I had to rely on that for my rent/food/etc.

      2. smoke tree*

        Thanks for the advice–ideally I’d like to find a job that has something of the “making things” component without having to run my own business. I’m not really interested in selling crochet stuff as a full-time job, for the reasons you mention. I guess what I’m looking for is something in between–something more tactile and physical than a desk job, but that doesn’t basically come down to monetizing my hobbies, if that makes sense.

  164. Beatrice*

    I need scripts for how to respond to people when they’re annoyed about errors being made by the people you’re training.

    I handle advanced scheduling work in a manufacturing environment. I’m very good at what I do – I am capable of doing it with a high degree of accuracy and I have this unicorn combination of experience in areas related to scheduling that allows me to predict the outcomes of my decisions and avoid problems. Dealing with scheduling problems was originally *part* of my job, and it has grown into all of my job and I’m working lots of overtime – I can’t handle all the scheduling problems by myself anymore. Instead of trying to hire another me to do the work, our exec team decided to assign it to a team and assign me to other work (I’m capable of doing more valuable stuff!) So I’m training this team of four fairly entry-level people who are going to do this work part-time, in addition to other work. Two of them are voluntarily taking on this work, and the other two were voluntold. I’ve done process documentation to the best of my ability and I’m training them, but we’re finding gaps in my documentation the hard way (it’s hard to brain dump everything you know into a binder), they’ve made some errors, I’m making errors now that I’m sitting in on only pieces of the process and never getting the full picture, etc. It’s been a tough transition.

    They are highly competent people and they’re working with an acceptable degree of accuracy considering how long they’ve been doing the work and their experience level, but I’m getting nastygrams from people affected by the few errors that are happening – questioning whether I’m training appropriately, questioning why the trainees didn’t intuitively know something I would have known from experience but they never could have known, questioning whether process documentation actually exists, etc. The feedback is often inappropriately harsh and disproprortionate to the size of the problem, and the expectation that this work would be done perfectly every time is unfair. It’s making the transition harder – I’m having a hard time resisting the urge to do everything myself again, the team is demotivated, some of the voluntold ones are trying to stay so busy with their other work that they aren’t available for scheduling work so someone else has to do it, etc.

    Any help with scripts to respond? Most of the complainers are my level or below, so I have the standing to be pretty direct with them, and I have enough capital that I could probably swing being direct with their next-level bosses as well. I just don’t know how to welcome feedback in general – we need it to get better! – while putting a stop to this overly critical baloney.

    1. Not So Super-visor*

      I guess it depends on how long they’ve been in training and the level of the mistakes. We do a lot of training with temps because it’s hard to find and keep good temps. Therefore there is almost always someone in training in our department. My go-to when someone complains about someone in training is to just plainly say “I understand that Fergus made a mistake, but he’s in training.” If it’s a pretty common error, you can point out that everyone makes this kind of error when they’re training. I have a laughable story about how I did a process wrong for a whole year because no one told me that I was doing it wrong.

    2. Eye of Sauron*

      Scheduling fist-bump.

      The biggest thing is to keep reminding people that this is a new team and they are ramping up. The other thing that helps is to name them specifically when things go right or when they catch something or perform a miracle (miracles are pretty common for schedulers!) This will help the perception that they don’t know what they are doing.

      “Oh Fergus, that order that you dropped in was able to be scheduled thanks to Jane… you owe her one”
      “Sansa, Did you hear that Bob pulled in that hot order for you, he was able to shift the schedule so that nothing else was affected”
      “Boris, you must have forgotten what it’s like starting a new role… On the job training under a spotlight is tough, don’t worry they’re picking it up”
      “Wakeen, if you think this mistake is bad, you should have been around when I did X when I first started… woo boy did I make a mess out of things. At least they are called rookie mistakes for a reason, luckily rookies turn into veterans before you know it.”
      “Every team/job/department will eventually go through a transition phase, they are usually a little rough in the beginning, but we’ll get through it. Yes, there have been some growing pains and mistakes but I’m happy with the progress they are making”

      Otherwise, I would focus effort in re-motivating the team and probably overload on the positives for a little while.

  165. strawberries and raspberries*

    I had an interview yesterday (my first one in over a year and my first one post-MSW) that came about through a direct referral from a good friend and colleague), and even though we talked for almost an hour and my experience is a great match for this and I’ve got someone really important pulling for me AND they told me what the next steps would be down to exact timeframes, goddamn if it is not SO DIFFICULT not to think about all the potentially stupid things I said or have anxiety about the whole thing!

    (I asked Alison’s magic questions and everything. I should have this. I’ve got this! But ugh. I wish I could meditate the way that I worry.)

    1. Whoa*

      Feeling you on this! I had an interview Monday that I felt went really well, but the longer it goes on, the more I start to freak out about little things that maybe I misinterpreted or could have did wrong. I would pay so much money to have the ability to put it out of my mind and just not think about it at all. Hopefully you get a call back soon and they appease your worries!

  166. LDN Layabout*

    For the UK (and probably more particularly London) people:

    Civil Service Competency questions: How do?

    I’ve mostly been keeping to doing the STAR method but I also feel I’m not getting good results in terms of showing my skills. Any hints/tips/guides (outside of those on the civil service websites)?

    1. Lau (UK)*

      Have you been asking for detailed feedback post interview? In my experience Civil Service are pretty good at doing that, particularly the earlier you are in your career.
      Few questions:
      – Are you focusing too much on the “we” not the “I” – it’s a really easy trap to fall into, prarticularly if you work as part of a team. Think about what you specificially contributed and achieved…
      – Are you jumping to a response without thinking about what example best showcases the exact skills that they’re looking for you to showcase? Taking a couple of beats to answer is better than losing the thread
      – How long are your answers?

    2. Elloa*

      Do keep to STAR, and make it easy to follow which bit you’re in. The actions should be the majority of the answer, show the difference you personally made and show some understanding of why it was successful (especially at more senior levels – HEO and above). Don’t worry about hitting every single bullet of the competencies, but it should engage with them and the overall point of your answer should showcase the overarching theme of the competency. At interview be prepared with two or three examples per competency and then listen carefully to the actual question asked and answer that; don’t just regurgitate your ‘best’ answer for that competency. Try turning it around and thinking of your best achievements and how you can use different angles for different competencies, rather than starting with the competency. Keep an eye on your interviewers, it can be really easy to ramble with STAR answers – that’s the problem I have, and usually when they stop taking notes I know it’s time to draw my response to a close.

      Mostly, though, practice. CS competencies are a skill and they can be learnt. Send your written competencies around people and hone them – it takes ages, but likely 6 or 7 of the competencies will recur in the jobs you’re interested in so once you have a good set you can use them for multiple jobs. For the interview, go over the competencies and your examples over and over again so you can frame the answer and remember the key points to hit in the moment. Fundamentally it’s a tickbox exercise and you want to make it as easy as possible for the recruiters to relate your answers back to the competency and give you the high mark.

      1. Lau (UK)*

        All of this. I’m voluntary sector now but still use the same style and a lot of the same competencies. The rambling is something I’ve really had to practice to avoid

    3. Akcipitrokulo*

      Remember with STAR to have growing focus not diminishing… it’s more effective to give situation/task a quick summary, more detail in what you personally did with the actions, and have an impressive result. They don’t need to know all about exactly what had made customer upset, and ending with result “so it was fixed” and no detsils doesn’t catch their attention.

  167. Mikasa Ackerman*

    How important is GPA when looking for work? I’m graduating in a month with a Bachelor’s in accounting. I should be graduating with honors, but this last semester is kicking my butt. I’m severely depressed. I’m anxious. I honestly do not feel like I can continue anymore, even though I’m almost done. I just want to sleep 24/7. I don’t want to speak to anyone. I know I’m going to fail.
    This was made worse when I was giving a presentation and the professor cut me off and berated me in front of the whole class, telling me I should have common sense, while the teacher’s pet kept saying, “Yeah, that’s what I was thinking.” I ran out humiliated and cried. Now I don’t want to go back to class.
    Other things: I was the only student in my program who got a B on an essay while they got A’s. My audit exam scores keep getting lower. I got a 70% on my last exam, barely passing. I know I’m going to fail the final.
    Help.

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      First off, you should report that professors behavior to the Academic Success center and/or whomever on campus handles that sort of thing. Your professor making you cry is NOT normal or acceptable at any academic institution I’ve ever worked at (and I’ve worked at a few).

      Secondly, reach out to your campus Wellness Team (or counselors). They are there to help you and if you haven’t gone to see them you darn well should.

      Thirdly, speak with your adviser. Does it make sense to drop this course? Can you still do that? What are your options at this point?

      And fourthly, to actually answer your question, no one I know cares. Really. It might be different in accounting (I don’t do that), but everywhere I’ve ever worked, no one has cared.

      1. Mikasa Ackerman*

        I just emailed the head of the program I’m in. She’s very supportive and sweet, so I can’t wait for her reply. I really don’t want to drop any courses because graduation is a month away. I bought my cap and gown and everything. I’m just so scared for finals. I’m hoping that my grades in the past 3 years will cushion any grades in this last semester.
        My mom wanted me to report him, too. I’ll do more research on who to talk to. Thank you.

    2. T3k*

      Here’s the thing: GPA is only a number that gives the employer some idea of your work ethic because generally, a college graduate doesn’t have years of work experience to otherwise show how they’d do in the workforce. But for most, it’s just that: a number. After you have a post-college job or two under you belt, that number won’t matter, and the few I’ve come across where it did matter, they were pretentious jerks that you wouldn’t really want to work for anyways.

      1. Mikasa Ackerman*

        I’m tired of pretentious people. Really tired. I’m afraid the pretentious guy in class will make fun of me this next class just because the professor did. The same guy had no problem asking me what was wrong with my face at the beginning of the semester. Yes, everyone turned around to look at me.
        If I can get though this semester, I will be so happy.

    3. zora*

      PLEASE talk to someone. If you have a campus Wellness office, or counselor. If you don’t have one, call a help line. This is not good when you are this depressed and anxious to try to deal with it yourself.

      The GPA is the least of your problems right now, get some help first. Please.

      1. Mikasa Ackerman*

        I agree. Even phone calls and text messages make me jump lately. I was supposed to go last summer, but I didn’t. I think I was scared. I don’t really know what to expect. But it can’t hurt to try.

        1. zora*

          I get that. I was really scared to get help for a long time, too. But now I am SO glad I did. I didn’t have to know what to say or the “Right” way to ask for help. I just described how I was feeling and the professional takes it from there. Helps you figure out what to do next.

          Please don’t put it off anymore. Like I said, if you are having trouble getting to see someone in person, start with calling a help line. That is what they are there for, and that is a good first step, just talking about what you are feeling out loud. You can do this!!!

        2. AnotherLibrarian*

          Going to therapy for my mental health was the best decision I have ever made. Don’t wait until you’re 31 to make it. Go.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      Talk to someone now, please. You’re in a stress spiral and need a bit of help to pull out of it. What everyone said: go to your wellness center. If they’re any good, they know how to deal with precisely the amount of stress you’re dealing with.

      If you’re not getting things, try to see if there’s online materials (although it’s much harder with senior level courses to find anything, sob). Sometimes materials are crap. Sometimes we don’t get it. Sometimes you have to go to the TA.

      Also: I don’t have a perfect GPA and literally no one cares anymore.

      1. Mikasa Ackerman*

        I think I’ll talk to my professor for that class and see what he says. He’s not the mean one. Maybe I can improve by finals.

    5. Schnoodle*

      GPA’s may matter in internships but really aren’t a ‘thing’ in the career world.

      Take care of yourself and report this professor’s behavior.

    6. Is it Friday yet?*

      There’s a couple different things going on here. First, as others have addressed, is it sounds like you could use a visit to a medical professional / professional counselor to figure out if you are suffering from burnout or something more serious.

      Second, if you want big 4, grades matter. However, they recruit in the fall, so you’d already have a job by now and wouldn’t be asking this question if that was where you were heading. Beyond them, grades matter, but experience matters more. A good reference from an internship or office related job is going to matter more than whether your final GPA was a 3.2 or a 3.4.

      1. Mikasa Ackerman*

        Yeah, I never felt like Big 4’s were an option for me. I don’t know if the schedule and stress will be healthy for me (as you can see I’m not good at handling stress). I really want to apply for state or city jobs. I was supposed to apply, but with everything on my plate, I’m so behind. Right now, my goal is just graduation.

    7. Lindsay J*

      1. Nobody has ever asked for my GPA. It certain fields it seems to matter. Mine it definitely doesn’t.

      2. Talk to your academic advisers about getting a medical incomplete or medical withdrawal rather than failing or regular dropping. I wish I had done so – I failed out a lot of classes when I got really depressed and stopped going.

      3. Your professor sounds terrible. If the class is offered in other sections with a different professor, drop this section and take it with somebody else. Whether you drop it or not, go to the head of whatever department they are in, and/or the dean of student services if you’re not comfortable with the department head, and let them know what happened. That’s not acceptable.

      4. See if your campus has a mental health clinic. Many do. I was able to see a counselor through mine, and a psychiatrist to prescribe medication. It helped a lot.

  168. AnotherLibrarian*

    I like my job. I don’t love my job, but I like it. I’m in a narrow subfield (and an extremely competitive one) of an already competitive field (librarianship). I love 75% of my job, have a great boss and lovely co-workers.

    But there’s literally no where to go with my job. If I stay where I am I will be doing the exact same work in ten years as I am doing now. I’ve got an inperson interview at the end of the month for a position that I am not sure about.

    Fellow Librarians, what questions have to asked to help you decide if a move to another state and a new job is really worth it when you’re content (though not thrilled) about where you are?

  169. Oh So Anon*

    So I have a tricky situation with a colleague who shares my role. They’ve been at our organization for about a decade and prior to that they’ve never worked at a related organization. I’ve been at our organization for over a year but was hired because I worked in consulting roles for our type of organization, as well as for the coordinating bodies that represent similar organizations. I’ve worked closely with how similar organizations work, and I’m reasonably well-known and respected in my field for my understanding of the industry and insights. I’ve made a great effort to learn our organization, and I’m doing a good job at that, but I have strengths and experience from before that are clearly relevant to this position.

    Colleague is a bit overbearing with everyone, but I have to work on a small task force with her and I’m not cool with her involvement in my individual work. Her experience is all internal, and she’s a valuable source of organizational history, but she’s pretty dismissive of the broader context outside our organization. I feel like I spend 90% of my energy at work trying to convince her that my approach to my own projects is defensible. It’s exhausting and I’m miserable because her passive-aggressiveness makes me feel like I can’t act use my own professional judgement. I’ll point out that I don’t run into this with my other colleagues; even if they don’t agree with something I’m doing they don’t act like what I bring to the position is irrelevant.

    We have a new manager who has no experience whatsoever with our type of organization but was hired based on the strength of some of his experiences, so he’s not necessarily able to know which one of us has better instincts, and I figure he’ll defer to her because she’s been here for a long time. New Manager wants to have a team meeting to define our group values. How do I tactfully explain that I’d like to prioritize bringing my experience and ability to my work?

  170. qjames*

    y’all, I would love any and all input on what I know is a HUGE no-no in the workplace – I’m a young woman working in a uni’s admin offices and our department I.T. guy is a total catch. has anyone had success with romantic inroads on the job? I’ve been as polite as I can be but now I know i’m leaving the state in August for a new position… which makes me feel not exactly like burning bridges but something like it…

    1. HiHiHi*

      I met my husband at work, and my parents met at work! Together almost ten years and over thirty years, respectively. So it can definitely work out, you just have to careful not to let the romantic part follow you to work, especially in the beginning.

    2. Environmental Navy Wife*

      Personally, if you’re in different departments and not really directly working with one another, it doesn’t seem anywhere near as risky as working with your next door cubicle neighbor with whom you have to collaborate on 90% of your projects.

      You’re admin – he’s IT – you’re planning on leave for a new position in a few months….I don’t see why you couldn’t go for it!

      (Assuming that all relationship acts will be outside the workplace, of course.)

      1. qjames*

        that’s how I’m thinking. this site has made me so paranoid about office romances though! i guess worst case scenario everyone has to install their own printer drivers if it goes sour

    3. Camellia*

      So you would only want a relationship until August? Or are you thinking no relationship, just casual whatever until then? If that is the case, and you decide to pursue this/him, you should probably make that very clear. He may think that’s great…or not…but he should have that info up front.

      1. qjames*

        yeah, I guess “romance” isn’t quite the word, lol. fear not, if the subject is broached, I’ll be clear about my own time scales

    4. Valenonymous*

      My coworkers have been dating for 2 months and work closely together in our tiny department. They are also living together out of necessity so essentially see each other 24/7. And if that weren’t enough, they just left to spend a weekend away together as a couple.

      I wouldn’t necessarily recommend this, but they seem happy.

  171. Nye*

    Any advice for an American traveling to China for a professional (scientific) conference? It will be my first time in China, and I want to make sure I’m polite and professional. I was invited to speak, so am a guest of the conference, though it is a large meeting with a lot of invited speakers. (I’m not the sole plenary speaker or anything.) I know most of the other speakers in my session, including the chair who invited me, though not very well.

    Among other things, I’m wondering what to pack. I usually wear nice jeans, a shell, and a blazer to professional events. Should I suck it up and wear dress slacks to dress up a bit? I’m a younger woman and I don’t wear makeup, which tends to make me look younger. The conference is in the south, and it looks like the weather will be in the 75-82F range.

    I’d also love any general advice on etiquette, norms, etc. Anything I should bring / buy (favorite Chinese snacks, anyone?) / be aware of? Thanks!

    1. Nye*

      Meant to add:
      I asked a version of this a little while ago, and got some good advice re: business cards, but thought I’d ask again for any last suggestions before I pack and fly out!

    2. Sami*

      I vaguely remember seeing your question, so I think this may be repeating some stuff from then, but basically, don’t worry /too/ much about the etiquette side of things. I mean, obviously don’t go out of your way to be rude, but if you make a faux pas they’re likely to understand it’s a cultural barrier thing (I assume since they’re inviting foreign speakers to conferences they’re well-versed on international etiquette differences). To play it safe, don’t talk about politics (or political systems in general), which probably applies everywhere but over there, don’t even joke about it.

      Also wouldn’t worry too much about the outfit. Gender roles tend to be more well-defined there than in the West (although may be different in academia), but again, it’s not like you’re trying to pretend to be one of them, so I don’t think it would make too much of a difference if you’re not wearing a dress or skirt.

    3. Joanne*

      Southern China tends to be more humid and hotter than other parts of China, so you want light, breathable fabrics. I would bring the jeans and a pair of dress slacks to change since the dress slacks are made of lighter fabric than denim.
      General advice:
      Wear sunscreen. Even if you don’t wear makeup, wear sunscreen, even indoors.
      Because it’s spring/summer, pollen is out in full force. Just about everyone will be wearing masks, which you can purchase at most convenience stores and range from the types doctors will wear in surgery to reusable cloth masks that come in a variety of colors and designs. Most are created to be a one size fits all so there’ll be little trouble getting one.
      Because it’s summer, there’s going to be sporadic rainfall. Bring an umbrella with you for this reason. Additionally, most people will use the same umbrella to block out the sun even when not raining for this purpose. I think you can get one for around $5 USD since they sell them everywhere.
      There’s going to be red somewhere, because it’s considered a lucky color. Same thing with “eight”-the word sounds similar to the word for “luck” and is a play on it.
      If you want good food, go to the street vendors. The prices are reasonable, they make the food in front of you, and you can walk and eat it at the same time. Most vendors will sell breakfast, lunch and dinner depending on the time of day it is. For breakfast, 稀飯， 燒餅油條，豆漿，and 餅 are common breakfast foods. 稀飯 is a rice porridge that’s really bland, but you can add in whatever toppings you want. I recommend 肉鬆, which is similar to dried jerky for some flavorings. Others add in scallions for their tartness. 燒餅油條 and 豆漿 are usually eaten together. It’s a piece of fried dough wrapped in a sesame bun, and the drink 豆漿 is soy milk to balance out the fried food. For lunch, you can have any number of things. Most vendors will sell lunchboxes, which is usually three dishes and portion of rice or rice and a dish, and dinner foods are similar to lunch foods. It’s not uncommon for lunch leftovers to become dinner. If possible try to find sliced pork belly, put it in a bun (which is called 饅頭), and add scallions to it. It’s an amazing sandwich.
      Snacks-get pocky. It’s a long, thin, biscuit stick that’s been dipped into a variety of flavors. I personally really like the strawberry flavor, but there’s a ton of them. You can get a pack of 12 for around $2.00 USD. Crackers are good as well, including the 旺旺 crackers, which are more savory and have a hint of icing on top to balance it out. Also get mochi, which has a variety of fillings. The sesame ones are delicious.
      For business cards, give and receive with both hands. Using one hand is considered rude.
      In the mornings, when it’s cooler, in any large area of land you’ll see senior citizens doing tai chi.
      When you hear people say 您 instead of 你, the ” is considered more formal than the latter. They do mean the same thing.
      Most major cities will have night markets, and more people come out during this time. It’s going to crowded, hot and sticky but you can find some good deals and souvenirs you wouldn’t find at most major malls or stores. The food there is amazing as well. If you can, try to find 沙冰, which is similar to shaved ice. Because it’s summer you’re more likely to find it at night markets for lower prices. I personally really like the mango flavored one, but again, there’s a ton of different flavors to choose from.
      Let me know if you have any other questions and good luck with your conference!

  172. LissyLou*

    HERE’S A GRAND SITUATION!!
    After over a year of unemployment, I have an interview for this afternoon! The catch? I woke up with NO VOICE. I think it’s likely related to last week’s sinus infection (I’m no longer sick). I seriously have maybe 40% of my voice. This should be awesome :/

    On another note, I’m seeing that the company has terrible online reviews that reference the exact same issues. I’ll be asking (pantomiming?)about that today, so we’ll see if any resolution has come of those problems.

    Send good vibes to my vocal cords, please!

  173. Junebug*

    I have an interview for an internal promotion that I was extremely excited about until they told me that as an internal candidate, there would be no salary increase or at most a very small one. I tried to turn the salary expectations question around, asking for the range, but they it really depended on my current salary. I’m already below market rate for my current position and would be $15-20k below market value for the new position. I’m a grad student in my final year and this job is exactly the kind of entry level position I would want when I graduate (or now!), but I’m pretty salty over this policy (which I’ve heard is common at this company, even though it’s otherwise a great place to work). I have all of the required and preferred requirements for the job. Advice please?

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      The experience may well be worth being underpaid now. Ask yourself, how is this job going to look on your resume in a year? Will you be able to leverage it for more money some where else? Also, how hard will it be to find another entry level position like this?
      I see no harm in taking it now and gaining experience that will pay you back down the road. Yeah the policy is stupid, but step back and look at the big picture.

      2. Ainomiaka*

        But given how many places still tag your salary to past salary, it can be setting Junebug up for a long period of being underpaid. Look elsewhere!

        1. Master Bean Counter*

          As much as I’ve heard about this happening, in 20 years I’ve never had it happen to me. But then I never answer the question, what does your current employer pay? If asked I answer I’m looking to make between X & Y. Where X & Y are in the ballpark of the mid- high ends of market rate.
          Has this actually happened to you? What industries have you heard this happening in? I’m curious.

    2. Ainomiaka*

      I don’t have advice but I have sympathy. I turned down an internal position for that reason and am now looking outside of my agency. It sucks.

    3. Bex*

      Take the promotion if they offer it to you, but start looking for a new job/company. Their policy is pretty crappy, and would essentially lock you into being underpaid for as long as you’re at the company.

  174. LucyVP*

    Those of you who juggle a personal cell and a work cell, do you have any tips or suggestions?

    My job has a new policy that all managers will be issued a work cell and we canno longer use a personal device for work.

    I dont have a problem with this new policy but the transition seems like it may be a bit awkward ( ive been with this org for 10 years and many clients and vendors use my personal number).

    Im looking for any hints our thoughts you all may have!

    1. AnotherAlison*

      I just put myself into this situation, too. I can only have 2 numbers on my business card, so all new people get the new number, but I am keeping my personal phone for business contacts who had that number (also lost my old desk phone number because I moved offices, so that cell # is the only continuity.) I know it’s a pain but I like having my separate phone for family, and browsing the internet, apps, etc. Some of my coworkers just assigned their numbers to their company phones, but I had this phone # since 2000 and am attached. I personally am not taking the work phone out at night or weekends, unless I am in the middle of a project or something that requires it, hut your position may vary. My bosses still have my personal cell for a real emergency.

    2. Yorkshire Rose*

      It may feel annoying to you, but it’s for the best, privacy-wise. In a litigation situation involving your employer, whatever personal devices you do business work on can be taken from you and all data (personal +work data) can be downloaded and turned over to the other side’s lawyers in the discovery phase of a lawsuit.

    3. LL Cool G*

      In my last job my manager was using her personal cell as a work one and then decided to add an additional cell # for work only (so 2 phones – an iphone and android, lol). She would either tell clients or co-workers about the updated phone # by email or phone call, said something along the lines “you can reach me at this number, 555-555-1234 now if you need to get a hold of me.”

  175. Marzipan*

    It occurs to me I haven’t mentioned on here about the cool new policy my work have put in place around fertility treatment – they’re basically offering up to five paid days off a year for undergoing treatment (two days for partners). They also bumped up the maternity pay (to 6 months full pay, then 13 weeks statutory maternity pay, then 13 weeks unpaid; and a similar deal for adoption) and paternity/partner leave (now six weeks paid leave). Which, yay, my work! (I am in the UK, for those whose eyes are popping out of their heads.)

    This does leave me feeling really weird about whether or not to take the fertility treatment leave whenever I’m next having treatment, though – I’ve always kept it really private before and I’m weirded out about the idea of talking to my manager about it… (I know that’s a bit of a world’s-tiniest-violin problem, but still.)

    1. Akcipitrokulo*

      Yay for work! Thought mine was good at 12 weeks 90% instead of standard 6! (Remember to look at tax credits if treatments are successful… and if on maternity leave they can base it on estimated current year instead of last year. We also got housing benefit for a few months.)

      It’s similar in a way to being legally entitled to paid time off for maternity related doctor/widwife appointments… do you take advantage of those before you want to tell manager you’re pregnant? I sucked it up and made up time for first appointment in ShitJob, but then decided it wasn’t worth it.

      So personal choice… but I’d take their policy as a pretty strong signal that they’ll be supportive.

      Hope it goes well!

  176. a name*

    I’m sure some of you remember things I’ve posted about my current job before but I now have a specific question.

    My boss is about to be terminated. She’s been suspended for her abusive behavior. After my last meeting, I told Grandboss that I was not comfortable meeting with Boss without witnesses, and Grandboss agreed to moderate all meetings, partially to protect me and partially to gain evidence to go to HR to finish the termination.

    However, Boss is still pretty nasty to me, even with witnesses. She’s acting as if I’m on a corrective action plan (sending summary notes and creating a paper trail, saying I have a bad personality, insinuating that I’m racist.) Now, I’m fairly certain that no one will listen to Boss because of her position: most people think I’m doing a good job, and Grandboss is supportive and influential. But at what point can I ask Grandboss for a timeline or flat out say I’m not comfortable with being on the receiving end of any more abuse?

    1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      Is Grandboss in the room with you and Boss when she says stuff that crosses the line? What is their reaction to it?

      1. A Nickname for AAM*

        Yes! Grandboss has the absolute most impeccable social skills in the world and can deftly turn them into a more productive conversation. Though I have caught her closing her eyes and looking up at the ceiling at some particular doozies.

        I don’t even speak without checking Grandboss’s face for clues, honestly. Awful boss is that awful.

        1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

          Then I think you can say something to Grandboss like, “I don’t know how productive I can be with Awful Boss anymore. What would you recommend going forward?” Grandboss knows the score. Or you could mentally re-frame it for yourself by thinking, “This is why your ass is getting the boot!” after everything Awful Boss says. She’s on her way out. She doesn’t have to elicit any kind of reaction from you anymore.

  177. Anon here again*

    I go out to lunch alone because I run errands, but today when I got back no one was in the office. I’m not sure if my invitation to something got lost in cyber land, but no one said anything if they did all go out. I started the job 9 months ago and still feel… new. I shouldn’t jump to conclusions, maybe it’s something else, but I’m beginning to think I don’t belong here and they don’t want me here….

    1. The Other Dawn*

      I wouldn’t read anything into that if it only happened once. Is it known that this is what you do for lunch everyday? And how many people are we talking? If it’s a three or four person office and they’re all gone, they probably went out for lunch and you weren’t back yet, or maybe they figured you’re busy and wouldn’t want to go. Or maybe it was a coincidence they’re all out at once. If it’s an office of 20 people, that would be a little weird. I wouldn’t worry about it unless it happens more often or you see other signs you’re being excluded.

      I feel ya, though. I’ve been here 3 1/2 years and I still feel like the new person a lot, even on my own team…

    2. Seriously?*

      They may have just decided “Hey, it’s nice outside so lets go eat outside today!” and you had already left. You can find out when they get back, but it wasn’t necessarily organized in advance.

  178. Liz*

    Hey guys,

    I have a question about how to exchange office pleasantries with A TALKER. I work in a small, really busy office. One of my coworkers, let’s call her Jane, is really sweet but is in a really difficult life situation and talks about it nonstop. A friendly “good morning, how are you?” will result in at least 10 minutes on all her troubles. This isn’t an occasional thing- it’s every single time and her circumstances, unfortunately, aren’t temporary.

    I literally do not have time for this at my job. I’m able to have friendly brief chats with my other coworkers in between customers but those are always brief “did you catch the game last night” kind of interactions. There’s also a literal wall between our workspaces so while it’s really easy to pop over into her work space to say hi it’s not spontaneous.

    I’ve kind of taken to being friendly and offering statements (e.g good morning! Have a great weekend!) without asking questions. My problem is that I’m much higher up in the organization than she is. I’m not her manager, but I’m definitely a superior. It’s probably not fair at all for me to have friendlier relationships with some of my coworkers than others.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I have chatted with her manager about her life stuff in the past and know that she has all the EAP/FMLA etc resources and information that’s available through our org.

    Thank you!
    Liz

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’d try not stopping to talk.
      You walk by her and say “Good morning. How are you?”
      Jane says “Liz, I’m fine. Do you know I just had blah blah blah blah blah and you know what? Such and such and such…”
      You keep walking and looking at her and nodding but then keep walking away.
      As you get almost out of earshot, you just say “I’ve got to go to a meeting. Just wanted to say ‘Hi.’ No time to chat.”

      Hopefully she gets that hint.

      If not, don’t keep looking at her as you walk away. Just say “Hi” and keep going.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        I agree. Just skip the “how are you.” That’s an open invitation to tell you her life story.

        We had a talker at my previous company and we all worked very hard to not ask any questions. Just a salutation and then we’re gone! Occasionally we’d throw her a bone and engage, but we picked those times strategically, like when we knew she had a meeting in 5 minutes. Very nice woman, but she could go on forever. She once told us that she would come to work as soon as she got up in the morning, because it was boring to be at home without someone to talk to. Not lonely, boring. So she saved it all up for us.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Oh, yeah. Good point! Just a regular “Hi, Jane” will do. Deadpan it if you want to indicate you acknowledge her existence but aren’t being overly friendly. Walking quickly while doing it can be good.

          Also, there’s… not saying anything. Just eye contact and a quick no-tooth smile.

      2. LadyKelvin*

        That’s how I deal with our office talker. I don’t slow down when I’m saying goodnight since he always seems to catch me as I head out for the day. We have core hours and so I work early and leave at 3 whereas he comes in 3 hours later than me and is still in the middle of his workday when I go. He’s the only one who makes it awkward when I leave. And then tries to talk to me for 30 minutes without breathing. So I just don’t stop walking.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I literally do not have time for this at my job.

      It’s also okay to say this, too, if necessary.

    3. Seriously?*

      I don’t think you are being unfair. You are not unfriendly to her and she is consistently misunderstanding pleasentries as an invitation for a heart to heart. However, if it bothers you then you can go back to asking pleasant small talk questions and cut her off when she starts going on too long and say “I’m really sorry but I have to get back to work.” Possibly followed up with “That sounds tough. Let me know if you need any help navigating the resources our company has available to help” but only if you actually want to do that.

  179. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    How much office food is rude to eat? I am doing ten hour days this week, so I am taking leftovers of work food instead of having dinner at home, since I get home at 6:30.

    I always make sure everyone has had firsts, and don’t go HAM like Garfield and lasagna. But, today was bagels at work. Had one at 8 and, seeing leftovers, another for lunch just now. Is a third if some are left at 5 workable?

    (Also I HATE people who cut several bagels/donuts in half and then leave disparate, different halves. What do you all think?)

    1. qjames*

      yes, if it’d otherwise go stale/to waste and others have had a fair shot, I’d say it’s all yours!

    2. fposte*

      I think taking a third to eat at 5 is fine; just don’t pack stuff to bring it home.

      And taking halves of what’s on offer is fine. Just don’t take the remaining half if you don’t want it.

    3. The Other Dawn*

      I think a third one is fine. It’s not as though you took three at 8am before anyone else had a chance.

      I actually love when there are little bagel halves leftover, especially if they’re different flavors. Bagels are my kryptonite so I try to not eat them at all, but when I see a stray bagel half I allow myself to have it. Donuts I don’t care about. Too much sugar for me.

    4. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I agree, it sounds like your usage is very reasonable. Bagels are generally breakfast food, and they go stale, so I don’t think anyone is expecting them to last through next week, or even through dinner tonight.

      And as for cutting bagels, if they’re cutting the circles into semicircles because they can’t possibly eat a whole bagel, then the remains aren’t likely to get too stale before the end of the day. If, however, they’re eating the top, seeded half of the bagel and leaving the plain bottom half to almost immediately go stale, then they might as well be licking the icing off of cupcakes and then putting them back on the table as far as I’m concerned. ;)

      1. T3k*

        Agreed, although around here, sometime’s that’s unavoidable. One company my last job got bagels from, they use an auto slicer that cuts top/bottom, but of course that doesn’t work on some of their bagels where the toppings are only on the top part.

    5. Seriously?*

      If you are taking them as you are eating them then it is fine. If you take another at 5, everyone else has had 8 hours to take one if they wanted. If you took extra food at 10 and saved it for lunch and dinner, then you might get some side eye.

      1. Whoa*

        Agreed. At the end of the day, everyone has had a fair chance to come take, and at this point anything left will most likely go stale/to waste.

    7. Bea*

      If everyone is gone and there’s leftovers, you should take them if you want them. Otherwise they are going to waste. Nobody is going to roll in on Monday (or tomorrow morning if someone works on Saturdays) and want a day old bagel [okay maybe someone would but that’s a huge stretch, most likely it’s going in the trash when the cleaning crew comes in later, unless they eat it, I guess but you do not need to leave it for the cleaner that maybe would take it!]

      I used to bring snacks/donuts or whatever in the morning and put them in the breakroom. If they weren’t gone by the time I closed up (everyone was gone by then), I took them home with me. I had many times when I didn’t and yep, they were stale the next day of course. And it can lead to a pest issue!

  180. Anonymouse*

    How do you transition from entry-level to mid-level positions? I’m in the global health/international development sector and just had a recent one-on-one meeting with my boss. She said program management, proposal development, and some financial stuff are key skills. I’m more inclined to the research/technical side of things rather than management. What else should I be developing or have under my belt? Any good resources besides Devex?

    1. einahpets*

      It sounds like you are more interested in the subject-matter-expert track in your field, right? In my industry (clinical trials) / my husband’s industry (software), the tracks kind of start diverging mid-career — I’m still trying to figure out which I’d prefer.

      For my husband, he is definitely wanting to go down the SME track, and so he is spending a lot of time honing his technical skills / building his reputation as a reliable / proficient contributor on his projects. He’s talked about what the next step would be (software architect) and what he understand that would require of him in terms of knowledge / experience, and that is what he focuses on. In my field, a SME is usually focused on mastering the technology we use in our trials / agency guidances.

      I have no experience in your sector, but maybe you can identify the SME role for your sector (either in colleagues or job descriptions) and use that as a starting guide for career development?

  181. Union Poop*

    My position is being unionized, but my title is not in the union yet because my employer and soon-to-be-union cannot agree on the contract. This has been going on for TWO YEARS. Now the union wants us to strike…but we’re not in the union yet. I don’t think we’re ‘protected’. This situation is making my greatly dislike my employer AND the union. It seems like both are just d!cking around. *middle fingers up in the air*

    1. Seriously?*

      If you are worried about what striking would mean in your situation, it may be worth it to consult with an employment lawyer about what protections you would have and what you would be risking.

      1. Union Poop*

        Thank you, that’s a good idea. My HR won’t touch us because we will be union and the union won’t really talk to us because we aren’t official union members/paying dues yet. I’ll be making some phone calls today…

        This is all such a mess.

        1. Seriously?*

          Even if they would give you advice, they are hardly impartial. Talking to someone who you know for a fact has your interests in mind is your best bet.

  182. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    One of the reasons I left OldJob was because they had been trying to create a Sales Analyst position that would have been both a promotion and great fit for me, but they could not get the role approved by upper management. I started looking for a job along those lines and landed my current position (which is heavy on data analysis) at CurrentJob three years ago.

    Fast forward to last week – OldJob has created the position and reached out to me to see if I’d be interested. While I love my current boss, co-workers and job duties, I’ve been unhappy on several different fronts since my company was bought out by a Fortune 500 behemoth and my current job was re-classified as hourly/exempt, and to be honest the pay has never really reflected the scope of the work I do even when I was salaried. This new position would pay substantially more than I make now, and although it was originally an hourly/exempt position, when I pushed back on that they stated that they’re open to making it salaried instead.

    I’m going to meet with them next week in person to discuss the position with the hiring manager (who I knew back when I worked there and while not as amazing as my boss, would be fine to work for). I’m trying to think of it more as a conversation than an interview, as I still have some reservations about the office culture overall and how they see the position rolling out as they’ve never had a stand-alone analyst before in any department. But I have to admit there’s part of me that would love to walk back in as the prodigal employee with a job title and salary that would have kept me from leaving in the first place.

    I’m torn between trying not to feel like I’m being disloyal to my current boss and co-workers (who are 100% blameless for the things that are causing my unhappiness) and being excited about the possibility of finally moving up in both title and salary.

  183. Environmental Navy Wife (previously Environmental Gone Public Health Gone Back Environmental)*

    I had put off telling my boss too much about Hub’s career switch into the Navy…..told him yesterday after I found out his son’s a Marine. Went so much better than for some reason I expected (probably a hold-over from how OldBoss reacted)! Boss is super excited for Hubs and talked for 20 minutes about the stations he’s visited and how much his son enjoys the Marines, etc etc.

    Then of course, Hubs got rolled for a very minor but poorly timed medical issue, so now everything’s delayed by 3 weeks. But I now feel way better about having to request time off for the commissioning, since it seems this whole office is way more understanding & laid back.

    1. Enough*

      Congratulations and 3 weeks isn’t bad. I know some who has just now gone to boot camp. It took almost 18 months. There were delays in everything and then his recruiter went on maternity leave, and then he got a medical diagnose (ADD) and was told that he had to work for a year at a job with certain level of responsibility before they would take him. Fortunately he didn’t have to wait a whole year or he would still be waiting.

      1. Environmental Navy Wife*

        It really isn’t that bad. It’s a little disappointing to be sure, but really, really not a big deal. Just now it’s 15 weeks instead of 12.

        I do wish I had more support from Hub’s parents, who were both Navy officers, since they both seem to have jumped off the deep end, but I was really pleased to have some support from coworkers.

  184. Kat*

    I think I just need to vent, but any advice would also be appreciated. I’ve been having a really crappy time balancing life and work recently. I have a great job that I love with great benefits (well, at least one great benefit that I need to be here 5-10 years to take advantage of). I’ve been here less than a year and I have gotten excellent feedback on my work so far. Its a pretty low level job but that doesn’t bother me – its relatively low-stress, predictable hours and and exactly what I like to do. The problem is my family responsibilities are taking a lot of my energy right now and I have had to ask for quite a bit of flexibility at work and I am afraid that is going to hurt me in the long run. I have two kids – one a high-achieving young teen who does tons of sports and extracurriculars and the other a tween with a calmer activity schedule, but with mental health issues and a tendency towards minor health emergencies (dental problems, eye infections, etc – small things, but things that still require professional intervention pretty immediately). So over the last couple of months I’ve had to ask to shift hours, come in late or take partial days off to accommodate spring sports schedules (never thought I’d be counting the days until my kid gets their driver’s license!), emotional breakdowns during the school day, interviewing new therapists, emergency orthodontist appointments, picking up from school because you can’t take the tuba on the bus, etc etc etc. My husband and I try to split these duties, but his job IS very high level which means sometimes he has more flexibility (he can cancel meetings – he’s the boss!) but also that his job is less predictable and sometimes he simply HAS to be there. I am expected work set hours and am hourly so I have to take PTO or not get paid when I’m not here – but my job is not so important that being gone for a few hours is going to cause any major damage. We don’t have any family nearby and are pretty new to town and don’t have a wide friend network. My boss has been very accommodating, and I try wherever I can to make up the hours I missed by coming in early or staying late and I haven’t fallen behind on anything, but I am worried that I am going to be more trouble than I’m worth. For example, this week I’ve asked to move my lunch break to 3pm on Wednesdays and Thursdays until the end of the school year for school pick up, today I am taking a long lunch at 2:30 to meet a therapist and Monday am asking to come in early and leave for 90 minutes for an orthodontist appointment. My husband so far this week has handled my morning carpools so I could come in early, did the emergency dental appointment run, met the appliance repair person at home and is joining me at the therapist this afternoon. It seems like a lot. Am I (and my family) just a hot mess? I’ve always felt like I had thing pretty together but I feel a bit of out control lately. I think part of the solution is cutting down on activities. I’ve already said no to my older kid adding a 3rd sport and we are probably dropping one music ensemble next year so that may help in the long run. I’ve been putting off my own routine medical appointments (I need new glasses so bad!) hoping that the kid stuff will calm down and it just doesn’t. I’m feeling burned out with all the rushing around and the stress of my youngest’s issues. I really want (and need) this job to work out, I just don’t know if its possible to keep performing at the highest level with all of this. WWYD?

    1. Whoa*

      That does seem like a lot. But when it rains, it pours! Cutting down to only the “essential” sports and activities should help (and you might want to consider doing it now, rather than waiting… they can always rejoin next year and it sounds like you need a break ASAP), but is there any way your kids can find rides with friends to some of their after school commitments? Or is there any way to get an old loaner/rental tuba that you could keep at home so you don’t have to arrange a special pick up and haul the thing back and forth so often and they could ride the bus instead? My old high school used to do that for some students with the outdated instruments that were too cumbersome to deal with. If not, it might be worth the extra money to rent one so you can save yourself the time for those afternoons.

      1. Kat*

        We do have an old home tuba for practicing so the “good” tuba only needs a ride for performances which are rare but ALWAYS on an inconvenient day. Thankfully they are dropping tuba choir once this semester’s commitment is up and focusing on a more portable instrument. They also will become a one-sport athlete very soon.

        (Cumbersome instrument may have been changed to protect the innocent! :-))

    2. Temperance*

      I sometimes find that the easiest solution is to throw money at the problem. Can you pay someone else to do school pickup twice per week, rather than doing it yourself? Can you pay an older teen or neighborhood mom to drive your kids to/from sports practices? Care.com should have some good options for you.

    3. Student*

      Here’s a couple ideas:

      (1) Ask the kids – both of them – to try to make arrangements with friends to carpool to activities. Set some minimum level of help you’ll provide – maybe guarantee transit to one (local!) activity each. Tell them that if they want more activities, they should check into options for things like carpooling with an older teen, a shared carpool where you only have to pick them up once every month (or whatever is reasonable to you), public transportation.

      (2) Tell the kids that if they can’t take the tuba on the bus, they’ll have to pick some different instrument. And so on for similar stuff. You want them to have opportunities to engage in their hobbies and interests – but that doesn’t mean you need to make it an absolutely perfect experience. If little Susie wants to try drone development, it’s not some great crime to tell her that you can’t afford a drone for her, so she’ll have to try playing with model airplanes instead. And/or push back on things that make your life hard for no obvious reason- sometimes kids relay rules wrong, sometimes bus drivers make up something stupid without authorization, sometimes you can beg or argue for an exemption.

      (3) This will sound awful, but not every minor medical issue is actually an emergency. By all means, trust your instincts on what needs to be dealt with on an emergency basis for your own children – you know the situation best. But it sounds excessive with your youngest from what you’ve said, unless there’s an underlying big health issue. My family was poor. We didn’t treat a lot of actual, deserving medical emergencies with all that much urgency – including broken bones, kidney stones, a lost adult tooth. It was bad, but we lived! In mostly one piece! Lots of more minor things really do clear up in a week as long as you’re well-fed and well-rested. Dental issues are almost never an issue that must be resolved within a week. Kid’s mental health issues are probably more serious – but this still depends, and I encourage you to take a hard look at what things matter and make a difference to your family, and what things don’t. A good therapist can help a struggling kid. A bad therapist collects a check every week while making no progress on the underlying issue, but can make everyone feel good about merely making “an (ineffective) effort”.

      (4) Up your priority on yourself. You need to set aside time for doing things important to your well-being, like getting glasses so that you can see correctly. You can and should prioritize things you care about for yourself – like your career, since you enjoy it and find it meaningful. You don’t need to sacrifice your own happiness so that your kids never have a moment of hardship. You can even drag your kids along to things you care about for yourself – be it your glasses appointment, or your favorite opera or truck derby or fishing trip, forcing them to miss sports match #935 and tuba recital #33.2 at the same time.

      Kids suffering through a bit of hardship – here, meaning, not being the absolute center of their mother’s universe – can actually be developmentally helpful in the right dose. If your kid has to figure out how to get to and from extra sporting events, it’ll teach her to solve problems and to highly value mobility when she can drive herself. If your kids see that you have your own identity besides “my mother”, (which can apply just as readily to a stay-at-home mom with hobbies, causes, and interests of her own) it can set their worldview for what women’s roles are in the world to a healthier spot than what you’ve landed yourself in.

      (5) Dear god, talk to your husband. Some of this is just that he needs to be aware that you are stressed and you want to prioritize yourself more than the kids all-consuming, mostly useless activities. (Taking orchestra was cute and all, and I’m glad I had the experience, but most of us give it up after high school when left to prioritize our own lives with our own limited resources…). Maybe he’ll see places where he can step up. Maybe, if his career is so important to him and yours is so important to you, you two can find budget for some hired help – cleaning service, lawn service, regular child care, paying off somebody to drive your kids about (public transit, or a small budget for fare-based rides to and from school events, or make it part of a babysitter’s gig).

      1. Kat*

        Thank you for this! I really appreciate your perspective – particularly around the medical stuff. I should probably try to look at these things more critically rather than jump to worst-case-scenario in my head.

    4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Yikes, that does sound like a lot.

      I’d talk to your boss directly about it, acknowledge that you have needed a lot of flexibility lately and will continue to need that flexibility at least through the end of the school year (another two months or so?), and ask whether that’s feasible. Be prepared for the answer to be no, but that’s useful information to have regardless.

    5. Jessi*

      Kat – your children seem old enough – could you not just order them an uber? Could you hire a student (or an afterschool nanny) for a couple hours a week as a family assistant to run some of your errands for you? Ie drive the kids to the orthodontist, deal with dentist and deal with house repairs? If you paid for 10 hours every week this person could deal with a bunch of this stuff for you and on slow weeks even do a grocery shop/ throw in some laundry?

  185. Karyn*

    To my fellow independent contractors colon does anyone have any advice for how to handle it when one of your clients suddenly starts saying they have “questions” about your recent few invoices? I am a paralegal with a JD and 10 years experience and I’ve been with this client for 5 years. In all that time he has never questioned any of my charges.

    I charge $35 an hour which is market rate for this area. In fact it may be a little low. I have a feeling it’s his law partner/brother who is actually concerned about the charges, but I still have to deal with my client himself on Monday at a meeting. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to handle it so that I keep the client happy but also don’t end up working for essentially less than minimum wage? I am definitely a victim of the “women shouldn’t be combative in business and should just be agreeable” mindset. I struggle with it, because I’m good at my actual job but it tends to make it difficult to run my actual business.

    Any suggestions as to how to handle it would be appreciated!

    1. einahpets*

      I was in a different industry, but when the client I was working for had questions in terms of the hours I would treat it as a moment to clarify for them on how much time it was truly taking to do the task, in a factual tone / not treating it as confrontational. Such as: “oh, you are interested in why I spent 13 hours this week on project x’s y deliverable? Well, in the time I’ve been on this project/field, I have found it takes me typically # hours to do (a) and # hours to do (b), and I like to set aside at least (c) to be able to proofread/review prior to making it final and sending to you. Of course some weeks/projects/deliverables it may take a little more or less, depending on the needs of the project.”

      If they want to argue about the total number of hours, they then have to justify what they think should be cut. You could even proactively suggest that something is cut, but pointing out the implications of that. If one project/deliverable was taking longer than those estimates, I’d outline why.

      Not sure if that helps or not!

      1. Karyn*

        That definitely helps. Also, some of the projects I do for him are flat rate – so, for instance, if a Complaint is fairly rote, it’s $35 flat. If it’s complicated, maybe $45 or $50. It’s been this way for years, so I’m not sure why all of a sudden there’s an issue. I guess part of me feels really insulted that the insinuation is that I’m padding my bills.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      As a female lawyer who’s gotten tons of push-back on my very reasonable bills, I suggest the following:

      1) Ask him to clarify in e-mail, in advance of the meeting, what the gist of his questions are, “so that I can review the work I did and the billing for your matter.” Then actually review your bill for errors. If you find none, do not under any circumstances give them a refund. But do go over it with them to show how you performed their work at your very reasonable rate.

      2) On all your bills for them going forward, raise your rate by $15/hr, calculate and show the total based on that rate, and then actually bill them at your “long-time customer rate” of $35/hr. (When you do raise your normal rate sometime in the future, raise it for them, too, but continue to create bills for them that look like you’re giving them a discount.)

      3) Put them on a “strike one” list of clients whom you fire after three strikes.

      1. Karyn*

        1. Thank you so much for this advice, especially from a female lawyer who has probably dealt with her share of male pushback and/or intimidation tactics.

        2. I tried to get in touch with him after his secretary sent me the email, but he’s “out of town” until our meeting on Monday. Convenient. I did review my bills, and the only thing I can find is that sometimes, I will create an invoice on, say, 1/1/2018, but I won’t actually send it out til 2/1/2018 (I create them to keep track of how much I’ve gotten done, etc.). I can manually change the date, but sometimes I forget. I don’t charge late fees or anything like that, so it really doesn’t matter what the date on them is as far as I’m concerned (and I email them, so I always have proof of when they were actually emailed, as my software registers that too). So I’m wondering if he saw two or three invoices dated 1/1/2018 which were actually sent at different times. If that’s the case, that’s my fault, but again, this seems to be a fairly minor thing that would be resolved in a phone call, rather than a sit-down in his office.

        2. I like that idea of the fake discount. How would you recommend I do that for flat-rate projects?

        3. They’re actually on strike two now. I’ve bent over backwards for this guy because he’s a longtime client of my mother’s (she was a paralegal before she was a lawyer). I answer phone calls at night, on weekends, and even while I’m on vacation. I don’t charge for phone calls, even though my client tends to ramble on endlessly. I also don’t charge for mileage to and from his office to pick up and drop off files. And, although I know plenty of paralegals who will charge a rush fee for projects that need done within 24 hours, I don’t do that either. I feel like I’m being MORE than accommodating here, but he’s the second client I’ve had that has made it seem like $35 an hour is too much – one of my other clients balked when I raised my rate by $5 last year.

        Thank you for the advice!!

        1. SmallCog*

          Then based on advice from the Freakanomics guys, you should probably double your rates and drop this guy.

        2. Glomarization, Esq.*

          1) Date typos aren’t substantive. I wouldn’t worry about them. I doubt that this is what he’ll bring up. But if it is, I’d ask him, “So the question you had about my bill was this typo on the date?”

          At the meeting, I would be direct. I’d ask what their question is about the bill. In response I’d say things like, “I reviewed this bill and it is accurate. My recollection of the work is that it took about the same amount of time and effort as similar work, and I’ve billed it as I have historically done with you in the past. I didn’t find any errors in my math, either” (assuming that all of that is true or reasonably close).

          2) Same deal but with a line-item discount, I guess? Or take a percentage off the final calculation.

          3) At this point, after this meeting, if it doesn’t go well, I’d start the client firing process. (I know other people suggest upping your rate to one you think they won’t agree to pay, but in my own law practice I consider that too close to playing games.) My process is to never be available for this client ever again. “Sorry, I’m unavailable, but here’s a referral.” “Thanks, I appreciate that, but I’m booked solid right now and can’t give your matter the time and care it needs. Here’s a referral.” Honestly, if they’re going to nickel-and-dime you on a bill, it could very well be that they have some cash-flow problems — so future bills may be paid slowly, or they may even be going out of business. Fire them before you end up doing some unintentional pro bono.

  186. Smedley*

    My boss started here 6 months ago and she has little/no office or management experience. I work in data and reporting and for many years now I have been trying to establish best practices for requesting reports so that requests are handled fairly and in a timely manner. Now my boss is telling me that I need to start looking at other peoples’ calendars and “anticipating” what they will need without communicating with them directly. I have tried this several times since she started and I don’t think we’ve been right about needs a single time!

    How can I handle this and manage up effectively??

    1. ExcelJedi*

      This is SO not effective. Like, to the point where I wonder if your boss is qualified to manage data & reporting.

      As a fellow data/reporting analyst, there’s no way I’m starting a report unless I’ve sat with the person and have a good feel of their scope, anticipated outcomes, research questions, etc. There are too many variables, and without an understanding of context, you’re just going to spin your wheels. Also, it’s a good way to damage relationships: it may come off as arrogant or sticking your department’s nose into other departments’ business (depending on the setup and culture).

      If she insists on this anticipation technique, I would anticipate collaborating on defining reporting needs (as opposed to anticipating specific reports). If someone has something coming up on the horizon, make that a trigger to send an email inquiry about what they may need, or even set up a meeting to go over the project and reporting needs. That way, you come off as helpful without overstepping or wasting your time.

    2. Patty*

      What if you suggest to your manager that you send a quarterly survey to your reporting customers for their reporting needs so that you have some proactive intel on what they want when? This takes out the guess work and limits over communicating? You can use something like survey monkey.

  187. Mel*

    Long story short: I have 9 years of experience teaching in early childhood (3-6 year olds specifically). I met all of the certification requirements in Previous State to be a lead teacher. New State says,”nope, you don’t meet the requirements to even be an assistant teacher or sub. You need *2* years of classes (basically an associate’s degree on top of my bachelor’s) and take a test to teach here.” I am really frustrated because this is where the majority of my work experience is, so now I need a part time job and everyone sees “preschool teacher, uh, not the experience we need for a part time receptionist.” Has anyone else transitioned from teaching to something else? What am I missing? I feel directionless right now. (And mad that my work experience means nothing.)

    1. Oxford Coma*

      Several of my teacher friends have transitioned into corporate training. It tends to involve travel, but the pay is good and you have a lot more freedom with curricula design than in education.

      1. Oxford Coma*

        Also, some states with stricter certification practices (like PA) also offer an emergency certification that would let you day-to-day sub. You just can’t do long-term subbing/mat leave. You need to have a bachelor’s and all your clearances, which it sounds like you do.

    2. ExcelJedi*

      YMMV, but look for the requirements for private school teaching. Sometimes it’s less strict than public school. (In my state, for example, you don’t need to student teach for some private schools, and some private schools have PT teachers, especially special needs schools.) It’ll really depend on the state, though.

    3. zora*

      I second the recos for subbing and private schools above.

      Also, I’ll throw out there that my mom started her own home childcare business when we were younger. Being self-employed had it’s own struggles, but she was able to charge premium rates with her teaching background as a preschool program, rather than just a standard babysitter. She didn’t take babies, only potty-trained, and did simple lesson plans, etc. And she is so glad she did it, we still have amazing relationships with some of her clients.

  188. Witty Nickname*

    I found out yesterday that my company is going to be closing my office within a few months. There were several layoffs, but the rest of us will be working remotely once the office closes.

    Currently, I work from home occasionally, but don’t have a dedicated “work from home” space. I live in a small apartment with my husband and 2 kids – there’s not any extra room for an office, so I have to set something up in either our living room or my bedroom (and, as I was typing this, I got an email from my boss asking if I’d be able to start working remotely within the next couple weeks so they can consolidate the office down to one floor and have just committed to doing that – since my husband is home all day while he job hunts right now, I will be setting up my space in our bedroom at least until he finds something).

    So – for those of you who work remotely full time, what are your best tips, especially if you don’t have a separate work space? My company will provide the basic equipment (the official policy says they provide one monitor and a docking station. I’m hoping I can get both the monitors I currently use and the sit-stand station they are mounted on) and a stipend to help cover expenses (office supplies, my cell phone bill). Ironically, they provide a printer, which is something I haven’t owned at home in years but bought over the weekend so we could print out materials for my son’s science fair project. I guess I’ll have a back up). My biggest challenge to working from home right now is not having a real monitor (just my tiny laptop screen), but I know there are going to be differences between working from home once or twice a week on days where I don’t really need that monitor to working from home full time.

    (My favorite thing in the world to do is go to Ikea, pick out some complicated furniture, and then put it together. The more parts, the better. I’m going later to buy a desk and small table, so that’s exciting!)

    1. JennyFair*

      I would definitely do bedroom over living room, because you can shut the door if necessary, without impeding the plans of the rest of the family. But there’s a lot to be said for mobile workspaces, too–if you ask ThursdaysGeek, they’ll tell you a cup of tea and a cat in your lap, and a good view out the sliding doors are the chief concerns.

      I worked from home for six years. My kids (including bonus kids who didn’t live with me but dropped in often) were trained to look at my phone, which had a red light anytime it was on, before speaking to me. Other things I learned:

      It’s way, way too easy to overwork yourself. When it’s quitting time, QUIT. Shut down the computer, and walk away. Or find another way to maintain work/home boundaries that will work for you.

      Make sure you have sufficient internet bandwidth. As someone who has had to tell teenage boys to stop streaming Mythbusters just before they blow something up because my teleconference was buffering, trust me on this.

      One fantastic perk of working from home is break times. You can get almost all your daily chores done during your breaks/lunches, and have your evenings free. Also, there are many things you can do during conference calls, such as folding laundry and cleaning the room your office is in :)

      1. Witty Nickname*

        I don’t like tea and don’t have a cat, but do have a great view of the mountains out the sliding door in my living room. :)

        Finding the boundaries between work and home is definitely something I’m going to be aware of. I have found that, since the majority of people I work with are 2-3 hours ahead of me, it’s easier to shut down at the end of the day – by 2 pm or so, I usually don’t have any more conference calls and can focus on my to-do list.

        I’m actually working from home today and realized one of the things I’m really going to enjoy is being able to play music without my headphones.

    2. valentine*

      Using your BR means being shut up in your room for some 16 hours each workday. If your BR is large enough to easily accommodate the office stuff and has a window that provides great light and a view of something green, then perhaps that would work for you. Otherwise, make living room space (the dining area, if you have one; meals can now be in the living area, unless you have a kitchen island) into office space. Husband needs to treat the space like it’s an office and go to the library or elsewhere to conduct his job search. Make rules like, if he’s home for lunch, no TV and he wears headphones for other noisy devices. Move away from the work area for breaks and, if you’re hourly/non-exempt, maybe set a timer. Spread the news about office/workspace/-time to stave off anyone who wants you to run their errands. Measure your commute and brag about it.

  189. AreYouStillThere*

    Is PTO better or vacation/sick time split? I’m tasked with making a recommendation right now and I can only see the benefits of a shared PTO bank so I would love some other perspectives.

    1. ThatGirl*

      Personally I would rather have one, slightly more generous, PTO bank. Right now I have vacation + sick time and I don’t really get sick. I may be able to use a few days for doctor’s appointments (in fact, I plan to), but I still feel like I’m gonna lose out on at least 2-3 days I could’ve had off if we had one big bank.

    2. Whoa*

      We currently have a split (10 days vacation, 5 days sick), BUT the caveat is that any unused sick time rolls over into vacation after the US Thanksgiving holiday. I only used 1 sick day last year so the extra 4 vacation days during the holiday season was really nice.

    3. The Cosmic Avenger*

      We made this switch many years ago due to a merger, and prevailing opinion was that for the young and healthy, one bank of PTO is something of a perk, as it gives them more vacation. For older employees, people with small children, or those dealing with health problems of their own or in their immediate family, separate banks might be preferable or it might be a wash, but there’s certainly no advantage to having medical leave eat into your vacation time. I recommended the PTO bank because those with more seniority generally get more leave here anyway, so it felt more equitable to give the slight benefit to the more junior employees. It helps that management here is very supportive and flexible if an employee has medical/family issues.

    4. Nye*

      I’d much prefer separate banks. The point of sick time is to ensure that 1) employees have time available for medical needs, and b) employees are incentivised to stay home when they’re ill. A single PTO bank defeats both purposes. First, employees who have medical issues are penalized compared to their healthier peers (since most of their PTO needs to be saved for treatment). Second, sick employees are more likely to come in to work and infect everyone else, since staying home eats into their vacation time.

      As someone who has taken very little sick time recently, I still really appreciate my employer’s split policy. I get a decent amount of vacation, and sick time is totally separate but essentially unlimited (though handled through FMLA if it crosses a certain threshold). I love knowing I can use all my vacation time for vacation, and also that my colleagues stay home when they’re ill (which I think is partly why I’ve been so healthy recently, knock wood).

      1. Who the eff is Hank?*

        I second this. Even though I’m in my 20’s I have some chronic health problems, and it puts me at ease to know that any time I have to take off work to deal with my health does not detract from my vacation time.

    5. Creag an Tuire*

      The common complaint about shared PTO is that it “punishes” people who use more sick days (either due to chronic health conditions or having children) by denying them vacation. I’m not a fan.

    6. Caroline_Herschel*

      I’ve thought a lot about this! I moved from an organization where they were separate to one where they were shared, and have found myself somewhat disappointed by it even though the amounts are pretty comparable. My main complaint has boiled down to the fact that (to me) it feels like separate banks are more fair to people with chronic illnesses or disabilities. I’m disabled, and if I have a bad flare-up then I could easily miss one or two weeks of work in a single shot. That means that I spend time thinking about how much vacation I can afford to take, and how much of a ‘cushion’ I need to always have in order to make sure I won’t need to take unpaid time if I get sick. I have worried about things like needing to cancel a pre-planned vacation because I happen to get really ill a month beforehand. Fortunately my organization is flexible enough that I’ll likely always be able to avoid this (we’re allowed to ‘borrow’ PTO). While obviously these problems don’t totally go away with separate banks of time, I have found being able to bank and accrue the two types of time separately has made it easier in the past.

      I also find that at least at my organization it provides a very strong incentive for everyone to work when they’re sick – it feels very different when you’re trading off potential vacation days instead of sick days. This obviously has the usual negatives (people come into the office sick), but I also feel like it’s created a culture where it feels hard to ask for sick time off because nobody ever seems to take any. But my office is quite small – so maybe that’s just a quirk that would exist regardless!

    7. H.C.*

      I recently changed jobs from a split bank to a combined PTO; overall I liked having the combined pot more (esp because PTO/vacay/personal days gets cashed out upon separation, but not sick days, in my state); however, my threshold for calling in sick has gone noticeably higher too (like “I can’t even get out of bed” sick.)

    8. Seriously?*

      Generally, PTO is better because people can use the time as they need (so people who get sick more often use more of it as sick time while people with great health get to use it for vacation). This does assume people are responsible and will save enough time in case of emergencies and not just assume that they won’t ever get sick, but presumably you work with adults capable of doing that.

    9. Schnoodle*

      Depends on your state laws. Some have that PTO has to be paid out upon termination but sick isn’t, for instance. Some states don’t care. Some states require some amount of sick time.

      Some companies use sick as you can use it whenever, with barely any notice but PTO has to have notice.

      Some like separate so one can roll over but one can’t.

      Personally I like it all in one but I’m in a state that doesn’t dictate anything on it.

    11. Oh So Anon*

      I like having them split, but I also like having the *option* of using my vacation time to deal with minor health stuff. I don’t expect other people to do this, but for me using up all my sick days for advance scheduled follow-up appointments for a minor ongoing issue makes me nervous about actually getting sick and being left without sick days to use. Because sick leave is seen differently, I don’t want to have to use up all my sick time and then have to ask for vacation – I prefer the optics of using all my vacay for things I can anticipate in advance.

      I don’t care about my vacation time quite as much as I care about appearing to be as available as most people, and having the option to use vacation time for health stuff means that it’s less likely that my personal matters would jeopardize people’s perception of my ability to work.

    12. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      My concern with combined PTO is that it ends up meaning that folks who are currently healthy (who are usually younger and/or don’t have children) have more vacation time available than do folks who need to use their PTO to manage illness or injury.

      I’d prefer a system with separate sick and vacation banks, with limited vacation carryover year-to-year, unlimited sick time carryover (without a payout for unused sick time when you leave), and a “sick pool” that folks can choose to donate to and then withdraw from if they need more sick time than they have accumulated.

    13. Alton*

      Practically speaking, as long as people have the same amount of leave either way, I don’t think it necessarily matters a whole lot. On a personal level, I feel like having separate buckets can help “legitimatize” taking sick leave because the connotations are a little different. Psychologically, I guess I feel more “protected” taking sick leave even though I’m pretty sure my boss doesn’t care what the leave type on my timecard says. However, as someone who takes very little vacation time, I also sort of like the idea of one bucket because as it is, I use much more sick leave than vacation time and I find myself keeping an eye on my sick leave bucket even though I could technically use my vacation time for illnesses, too, and that bucket is just sitting there. But for me, the primary thing is having the leave and feeling comfortable using it, regardless of what it’s called.

    14. AreYouStillThere*

      I should add that my work is pretty old school when it comes to sick days. We get 5 a year and they don’t roll over. My idea for combining them into a PTO bank I think would overall benefit employees with more time off. I live in a state that cashes out PTO upon termination, too. I’m definitely concerned about being fair to chronic illness/pain/children, but we only have 5 days a year anyway.

    15. Kat*

      My current job is the only one I’ve had where sick and vacation time are split. There are pros and cons of doing it either way, but I think I like the split. I feel like I can plan vacation time more comfortably without having to leave a cushion in case of illness. It helps that my employer is pretty generous in this area.

    16. LCL*

      Here at big government (TM) we do vacation/sick split. From my perspective I can’t see any benefit of a PTO system. Every place I have heard of that went to the PTO model grants less total days leave than a split system. With our system, everyone’s accrual rate for sick leave is the same. Sick leave carryover is unlimited. Vacation accrual rate is based on seniority. Vacation carryover is limited to half your annual amount. On retirement/resignation, vacation remaining is paid at 100%, sick time at 25%.

      Also, if your workgroup is such that requires around the clock work and limits the amount of people that can be out of the office at any given time, keeping vac and SL separate is easier to manage. I explain it as you ask us for vacation, which may or may not be approved. You tell us about sick leave and approval is automatic.

    17. Aphrodite*

      I work in higher ed and we get both vacation and sick time. We can accumulate sick leave without limit. However, we can only bank vacation time up to two years’ worth; anything over that must be used by the end of the fiscal year. (Right now, my supervisor keeps getting notices that I am substantially over but I already have a plan to get down to my maximum by June 29.)

  190. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

    This is more of a rant than anything–but suggestions or advice are also welcome. :)

    I am one half of a two part team at work. My teammate is a loan officer/salesperson. I am a loan closer/title, deed, and paperwork clerk. My teammate and I previously worked together at another job several years ago, where she was my boss. We ended up becoming really good friends, and we hang out together outside of work all the time. She was actually the person who helped me get this job, and I absolutely love it. Now, going into this job, I knew that she is not a detail oriented person. She is a super salesperson, but she is horrible at paperwork and organization. I predicted that I would spend a lot of time correcting her mistakes and cleaning up her messes. I was right, and 98% of the time, I don’t mind at all. Like I said, I love my job. And its pretty fun working with one of your closest friends.

    The 2% of the time that I do mind being her organizer always comes to the surface any time that she is off work. She’s off work today, and it has been horrible. I have already had 3 people show up today to close loans who I didn’t know were coming in. One of the people who came in didn’t even have their loan approved yet. They all said that my friend called them and scheduled appointments for them today–but none of them were on our shared calendar. I am now super behind on all of my work for today, and these pop ins have prevented me from helping other people, who were actually on the calendar, in a timely manner. I know that my friend is a totally unorganized person, and I know that details are not her strength, but seriously, how difficult can it be to put an appointment on a calendar? Or to at least let me know that you talked to a person so that I can do what I need to do to prepare for them? I need a drink.

    2. Canadian Teapots*

      You folks are loaning money to people, and one half of your team is disorganized about that.

      I know y’all probably have it down to a science normally, but I’d still suggest advocating for a policy that states that both of you must be in the office to sign off on any loan paperwork. That way you can legitimately refuse anyone who got mis-scheduled, and it puts the accountability on your teammate to keep you looped in so you’re not stuck scrambling to clean up after them when customers are told to come in and get their documentation handled.

      In fact, if teammate’s actions put you folks out of reguilatory compliance, you should definitely frame it in that context for your boss: “we need to be dotting our i’s and crossing our t’s, so I’d like to ask for a policy to proactively make sure that’s happening”.

  191. Tabula Rasa*

    A bizarre work story appears!

    We work with chemicals. Sometimes, some people need to take a bioassay (read: pee test) to monitor their exposure to those chemicals. If there’s an accident with the chemicals, you get an emergency bioassay. If you work with large enough quantities of the chemicals on a daily basis, you get a regular bioassay.

    Today, I got an email from a project assistant I’ve never worked with. She tells me that my bioassay is being charged to her department in error, and I need to straighten that out ASAP by providing a correct charge code for my department.

    The problem: I haven’t had a bioassay for several years. I had one emergency bioassay in response to an accident, once upon a time; I don’t routinely work with big quantities of chemicals.

    So, someone is peeing in my name in vain at work.

    I’m vacillating between laughter and moderate concern.

    1. fposte*

      Aha! A chance to bust out Bug’s excellent term of “peepetrator”! I hope you catch the pisscreant.

  192. Winter in Fargo*

    Does anyone have any experience with Watermark Learning? I am thinking about taking their PMI-PBA certification exam prep. It’s quite expensive, but comparable to a college course and it provides the required 35 contact hours.

    Related, if anyone has experience with the PMI-PBA I would appreciate hearing if you felt like it helped your career.

  193. Staja*

    In case I needed something else to validate my reasons for leaving OldToxicJob (at a janitorial supply company), I just found out that they have put cleaning of the office out to bid…to the employees. Especially comical about this situation? In the 4 years I worked there, the office had maybe been cleaned 3 times. A pretty abysmal record for a company that “sold clean”.

  194. Rhymetime*

    Here’s a question for others who are older workers. I’ve been working in nonprofits for most of my working life, which has been rewarding. I work in grants fundraising, and a recruiter recently reached out to me with an amazing opportunity–an organization with an excellent reputation and mission, a promotion, and a huge raise. I went through the process and I’m thrilled that I got this job which I’ll be starting soon. At age 60, I didn’t anticipate starting a new position, but this will really set me up well for eventual retirement. I will be a director for the first time in many years, with just one person reporting to me.

    I do notice things that I think are related to my age. I don’t have as much energy as I used to. I learn things more slowly and I find that I haveg to work harder to remember people’s names. I’m still a high performer and get stellar performance reviews, but I’m aware of the challenges of starting a new job at my age. Any tips to set myself up for success?

    1. beanie beans*

      I’m 39 looking to leave a job that I’ve been at for 10 years, and I have the same concerns about energy levels and learning new things. That probably doesn’t make you feel better and is zero percent helpful to you, just wanted to offer some sympathy! (and to selfishly follow the helpful responses!)

      I guess if I did have a tip (as someone who has been under new directors), it would be to trust the employees below you to help you do your job. Delegate well, direct and guide rather than micro-manage – all the things that make people good leaders regardless of their age – hopefully also eases the pressure to do everything for everyone and burn out.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      They might be related to your age–or they could be related to diseases that crop up at your age and can be treated successfully. Some can actually cause the symptoms you’re describing. I would go get checked.

      1. Rhymetime*

        I’m guessing what I’m experiencing is the same stuff my peers in my age group describe as well, even those of us in good physical shape. That said, I appreciate the concern and in fact I have an appointment soon for my annual physical. Thanks for the reminder to mention these things.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Quite possible, yes. Hope the physical goes well! And you’re welcome.

          BTW: congrats on the new job! I’d offer advice, but I’m not even close to that high up the pecking order yet… and you already read AAM, so.

    3. De Minimis*

      I use things like Evernote to help me remember and to organize tasks. I’m in my mid-40s, though my job involves handling more grunt work and smaller details, so there are more things that I can potentially forget than there might be for a director. In my experience, the director work tends to be more big picture and about relationship building. At any rate, there are lot of tech tools out there to help with planning and organization, I would research to find something that works for you. I find my lack of energy is often due to getting overwhelmed and “paralyzed” so if I can capture everything in some type of system it helps me a lot.

    4. tab*

      I’m 62 and also have memory problems, and I deal with them two ways: 1. I use technology to keep track of what I’ve done and still need to do on my projects. Everything is stored on Dropbox, so I can access it anywhere on any of my devices, and I am disciplined about putting all meetings and tasks on my calendar. 2. I’m open with my teammates that my memory is poor, so they help me to remember, and forgive me when I forget. They’re all much younger than me, and they have been understanding. BTW, Congrats on the new job!

      1. Rhymetime*

        Thank you, it feels good to hear from a peer in a comparable situation. And I appreciate the well wishes.

  195. Squeegee Beckenheim*

    The exchange above between the hiring manager and the applicant reminded me of this question I’ve had for Alison for a while.

    Alison, you’ve mentioned that when people write in with obvious pseudonyms in their letters (Game of Thrones characters, for example) you leave those alone, but when people write to you using normal names, do you sub in fake ones? There was a letter a while back where a boss wrote in complaining about an employee with my same (not super common but not uncommon) first name and it gave me a mild heart attack that my boss was writing in about me. (They added some details in the comments that made it clear that it wasn’t me, but it did serve as an impetus to clean up some of my potentially-annoying behavior.)

    Are all names changed to protect the innocent and/or guilty?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I don’t usually change names in letters — I assume people writing in have already done that and have picked the names they want to use. (The exception to this is if the names they’ve picked are confusing — like I’ve changed it when they used names like A, B, C, and D, which I thought was hard to follow.)

      The same is true for other details in letters — if someone says “I work in Boston,” I assume they’re either comfortable having that printed or they’ve already changed it. I don’t change it for them because what if I change it to Atlanta and it turns out they really work in Atlanta, used Boston for anonymity, and I just ruined it for them?

      1. JaneB*

        It bothers me sometimes that “Jane” is always the default name for an anon female coworker since they’ve often done something heinous, but I’ve got used to it – presumably there are Ferguses who feel similarly!

  196. Anon4this*

    Question: For people who work in research or management consulting companies where you have to write client-facing reports, does your company write reports in PPT format? I mean, PPT not as presentations, but actual stand-alone reports. Is this normal? (Because I personally think it’s weird)

    1. Environmental Navy Wife*

      That sounds…….different. I can’t think of any ways that PPT would be better for report *documents* than Word.

    2. grace*

      Hmmm we write our reports, data etc, in PPT – not word. But we’re a boutique firm, so we generally don’t report the same way that syndicated research does, and generally tend to do a presentation off of the report so it’s just left in powerpoint. Also I think everyone here hates doing charts in Word, because same. But that’s market research, so maybe not the same thing?

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      PPT is 100% the standard for written & visual communication in the management consulting world.

      Disclaimer: I don’t work in management consulting. My husband does, and until he became senior enough to manage a team he spent 75% of his time making PPT decks.

      1. Environmental Navy Wife*

        Is there a report somewhere online that is typical of this that you could point me to? I’m legitimately curious if I’ve already seen these reports before and just had no idea they were PPT. When I was gov’t, all reports submitted to me were PDF, so they really could have been a whole lot of things originally. Now that I’m not gov’t, I’d love to know if there’s a ‘better’ way of doing what I need to be doing.

          1. Environmental Navy Wife*

            Interesting! It still feels very PPT-y to me, but I do like how sleek it looks. Thanks for the link!

            1. JaneB*

              People don’t actually project and talk to these though do they? Because that is a slick looking paper report but the csptions etc would be unreadable projected in even out smaller meeting rooms, and if it can’t be read by the viewer there’s no point showing it, is there?

              1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                No, they aren’t designed as presentations projected on a screen. They’re in lieu of a narrative report.

  197. AnnonLurk*

    Hope I didn’t miss the big rush for the open thread!

    On two separate occasions the word “sandbagging” has come up in regards to my forecasting, and I’m starting to question my own performance now. I still achieve above the cooperate goals for revenue, but trends have been really out of whack recently and harder to predict. My new boss first used it in reference to being careful not to do that to a future boss, but the next time it was mentioned, it was directly related to my performance. This was said not as private feedback, but has been said twice in front of my peers who are at a similar level as me. This and another incident, coupled with severely below market rate for my position, has driven me to start job searching.

    My question is am I crazy for being off put by being told I’m “sandbagging” and yet when other peers don’t forecast as accurately for a day or so, they aren’t given the same feedback in that same meeting? Is sandbagging a common thing and this is just normal advice I’d hear?

    1. fposte*

      This sounds like it may require some industry insider knowledge to untangle, but I’d talk to my boss privately and try to get more info about the goals for your performance overall and how and why they relate to expectations for people at your level in general.

    2. LCL*

      What exactly do you mean by sandbagging? The use of it I have heard is to present someone with some information that is disastrous and unexpected.

      1. Eye of Sauron*

        Think of it as padding.

        So you can sandbag your budget and then when you come in low you look great. Forecast sandbagging is usually front end loading or over forecasting

    3. Eye of Sauron*

      I used to hear it all the time when I forecasted. I largely didn’t care (but I had the capital to use on this and the customer satisfaction backing me). I would calmly present the facts which were usually…

      Yes, I did front load the forecast. Why you ask? Because my customer has historically dropped in the same large order at the same time every year with no notice. Because typically we have on major shortage on this product a year and my customer is happy if they aren’t affected OR Well you are currently late on 4 of my shipments and if I hadn’t front loaded we’d be out. etc…

      The biggest thing you need to look at is how out of range are you with your coworkers. What are the reasons you are forecasting high, is it due to knowledge you have that others don’t? Or is it something else? Are there other differences between your forecasts and your coworkers. Are you explaining the variances proactively?

      It could be that for some reason you are being held to a different standard, or you really could be forecasting out of the normal range. It’s hard to say without the specifics.

      I echo fposte’s advice, go in and talk to your manager and try something like this;

      “I wanted to ask you about the sandbagging feedback, am I out of the normal range? I’ve noticed that Chip and Dale seem to have similar variances and they’re not getting the same feedback. Is there something different in our products/sites/whatevers? Where should I be aiming for my forecasts and at what point should I be looping you in to discuss”

  198. TheLiz*

    Tonight I have the best workspace. I’m writing up my PhD (nearly there!) and have taken my little stand-alone desk onto the balcony… in a raging thunderstorm! There’s just enough building overhang to stay dry and the lightning is incredible!

  199. Where's the soap?!*

    Our building has been undergoing renovations for the last few months. They recently finished the nearby restroom. I go in, it looks lovely, do what I need to do, come out to wash my hands and…there are no soap dispensers. Nothing on the walls, no sink attachments…no soap!

    IDK who did it, but someone bought a few soap bottles and we’re all just using that for now. Design fail!

    1. Camellia*

      OMG! And here I thought the worst bathroom fail is the toilet paper dispensers in our. They are positioned so that the opening is about level with your ankles. It is a struggle pulling out a ‘serving’ and you can’t really help it trailing on the floor, but it is worse when the end of the paper is not dangling out of the opening. I’ve scraped my arm numerous times trying to reach down and then up into it trying to find the end of the paper.

      Is there anyone you can notify of this design fail to get it rectified?

      1. fposte*

        If it were at my employer, the soap dispenser installation would be under a different contract, so it would be coming eventually and we’d be expected to make do in the interim.

      2. Enough*

        I’ve noticed that is is a big problem with the handicapped stalls as they put the dispensers under the rails. Was in one bathroom recently that had two dispensers. One below the rail and one above. Loved it.

      3. Where's the soap?!*

        I am cackling!!!! Ankle level…serving…LOL!
        There is a guy who works here who knows All Things, so I’ll see if he knows what’s being done about it.

        fposte: I’m in a government building! I wonder if different contractors is the case here…

  200. Underpaid Bookkeeper*

    So I’m interviewing for a job at headquarters for a franchise sub chain. This is a very intense interview process…that I’ve never experienced before. Yesterday I had a phone interview that seemed to go well. She said next week I’ll interview with someone that works with her to see what it’s like to work for her. Then after that I’d go for an in person interview and then after that I’d meet with the board I’d be working for/under.

    So from all that it seems like I’m looking at least a month before anything happens..maybe more. I also applied for this end of March. It sounds promising but I’m nervous to change jobs..I hate change..I’ve been at my current job for 3 years but they pay is horrible and there’s no PTO or Vacation or other Benefits. There are a lot of pro-s like flex schedule and my husband also works here and it’s close to home. I guess we’ll see what I’m offered and what happens but good stuff coming hopefully.

    1. Canadian Teapots*

      I’ve actually been shocked at how little bookkeepers can get for such critical roles. I’ve seen people offering $15 an hour (minimum wage is $11/hr) for bookkeeping when I know warehouse workers can get $17+ – and this is $15/hr AND demanding someone who has a CPA or finance diploma.

      Here’s hoping you land a better job!

  201. Paah*

    I applied for a job at a big company I really, really want to work at and finally got a phone interview with the HR manager next week. I noticed they literally just posted an opening for another position that I may be better qualify for (although my preference is the first job I applied for). Should I bring up the other position, or will it make me look flakey? And if I ultimately don’t get the job, is there anything I can do short of asking the HR manager, “Please keep me in mind if another opening comes up”?

  202. Anonymous Educator*

    Maybe this was discussed last week already, but did anyone else just come across that Twitter thread about the stolen shrimp fried rice at work?

    I found it entertaining. Sounds highly embellished, but that’s okay, too, I guess.

  203. The Other Dawn*

    Ever since I’ve been at my current job (more than three years) I’ve been thinking about what I wish I could eliminate that would make me most happy with my job. I don’t mean that I dislike my job. I actually like my job. The work is interesting, although there are things I like less than others and things I hate, but that’s the nature of working. I love the company and we have a great culture: slackers aren’t tolerated, there’s a great work-life balance and everyone is very collaborative, helpful and respectful.

    I’ve been trying to pinpoint what it is I’d change if I could: I wouldn’t manage people. I manage a small team (less than 10) and everyone does a great job. We generally don’t have any interpersonal issues and we get along well. But I sorely miss the days of my previous company where I basically managed myself and was an independent contributor, although I was still pretty high up in the chain. It was a very small company so I wore many hats. I don’t really miss the multiple hats, since I can now concentrate on one area and that makes things easier.

    So I’ve been thinking about what I think I’d enjoy if I ever left this company, and then it hit me: training. We recently conducted some training sessions on regulation changes. I wasn’t the presenter–it was another affected department–but we contributed 99% of the material since my department is responsible for these regs. I found myself wanting to jump in constantly while the trainer was presenting. Not because she wasn’t doing a great job, but because I wanted to explain all the intricacies–why, when, how, etc. I realize I will likely never get away from managing people, but I’m thinking this would be more fulfilling for me.

    Anyone made the jump from working in your industry to training your industry? Was it difficult? What did you like/hate?

    1. LQ*

      The thing about training is that most of the presented stuff isn’t about the intricacies (though I would not say why is an intricacy and I would say is CRITICAL to good training!!) it is about the broad strokes. You have to create building blocks of knowledge and stack them together. If you through a whole bunch of really detailed things at people you aren’t training, you’re making them check out and they aren’t going to learn. It is frequently repeating the same thing multiple times in multiple ways to get through to all of the learners. It is often about holding back when you have a highly detailed level of knowledge and imparting it piecemeal over a longer period of time.

      I’m just moving out of our training team, but we would frequently not use SMEs (subject matter experts) because they know too much and can’t stop themselves from giving too much information, especially when someone asks. Because they know, they want to help. But they can’t see that what you’re doing is throwing too much into the pot and not getting the results you want because you don’t have building blocks, now what you have is a house of cooked spaghetti noodles. It’s really wonderful and exactly what you need to make an amazing meal for dinner, but not great for building houses.

      What about consulting within your industry? (I know not all industries have that.) It’s often the intricate details you like in a one on one or smaller setting and with people who are in positions to really make change (at least here it is) but without the management.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Yes, I think I would have a hard time with the broad strokes. As you say, I know and want to help, and I often find myself wanting to add my two cents when certain subjects come up at work.

        I’ve thought about consulting, but I honestly don’t know what direction I’d want to go with that. I really enjoy the policy and procedure writing part of my job, but I definitely have a lot of industry knowledge in general at this point in my career.

        Thanks for the information!

  204. Anon for this*

    I have a question about the limits of what it means to “work off the clock” when you’re non-exempt. I know that even stuff like checking e-mail technically needs to be paid, and that employees can’t “volunteer.” But where do you draw the line with purely voluntary activities that you’re doing for your own benefit or fun but that are sponsored by your workplace?

    I work for a university, so there are a lot of after-hours events and volunteer opportunities that don’t directly benefit the university but that may be sponsored by it. I don’t feel pressured to or required to “work” at things like this. But I run into a couple situations occasionally:

    1. If I attend an event that’s being put on by people I work with out of my own interest, it can be hard to avoid getting small requests for help (“Hey, would you mind telling the person at the front desk that we need tech support?” sort of stuff). I don’t mind this, but I worry about it creating a perception that I’m there as an employee, and sometimes it can lead to other attendees thinking I’m the person to ask if they want to know where the restroom is or something.

    2. Sometimes I have opportunities to volunteer with groups of employees, and these can range from things that are obviously not work-related (like helping out at a food pantry) to things that look a little more “official” but are still 100% voluntary (like, as a hypothetical example, manning a table at an Earth Day festival). If I want to go to the festival regardless and like the idea of spending some time with work friends while I’m there, is it a problem?

  205. Argh!*

    How do you handle a boss who plays passive-aggressive mind games?

    Not that I don’t love reminiscing about middle school, but mind games aren’t really my thing.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Dust off your résumé? That sounds like a personality problem, and one that’s not likely to change any time soon. There is a certain amount of “managing up” you can do with a boss’s behavior, but passive-aggressive mind games? Nope.

      1. Argh!*

        I’ve been looking for a new job for a few years, but I won’t apply just anywhere… just yet.

  206. Grizzzzzelda*

    I’m majorly peeved.

    I’m not going to get into the details, but a worker walked off the job yesterday after being told of a garnishment to be applied to her paychecks.

    Her manager came to speak to me to let me know she never came back after lunch and that he hopes it’s not because of the garnishment she told him about. He asks me to reach out to the employee. I do via email because her phone was turned off and voicemail was full. She got back to me this morning apologizing, saying she was just overwhelmed by how much the garnishment was for. She was scheduled off today for a funeral.

    I confirm that she was schedule off today for a funeral with her manager. He tells me to ask her if she’ll be in Monday, that way we can all talk.

    I, not wanting to even attempt calling when she may be at a funeral, send another email, basically saying I am sorry to hear about the death in her family and that I understand that she may have been feeling overwhelmed yesterday and if we can count on her here on Monday.

    Hours later I get an email from her manger’s boss saying she walked off the job and should be terminated (she’s within her probationary period).

    So now, I am expected to call her and tell her “Never mind about Monday. You’re fired. Have fun at the funeral.” (obviously not in those words).

    I’m fighting this. Even if termination does end up happening, I think it would be grossly inappropriate to do so today. I shouldn’t be the one making the call either. If her boss’s boss wants to, he can be my guest.

    Please offer advice if you have it. I really am just venting. I am not on anyone’s side in this situation…employee should not have walked off job without telling anyone, and sure, that can be grounds for termination in the probationary period, but after having me contact her to tell her to come in Monday, and now trying to get me to tell her that forget about Monday, she’s fired…that’s messed up.

    1. Mediamaven*

      I think you send the email over the weekend. Yucky situation, but SHE walked off. The garnishment was not a punishment from the company, it’s something they simply have to execute, and honestly, she should be embarrassed and apologize for the inconvenience to the company. The company hasn’t done anything wrong here. If she’s pulling this in her probationary period, this will not be the last issue.

      I would just say, apparently, the company considers walking off the job during the probationary period grounds for termination and you are sorry it didn’t work out.

      Management sure means having crappy conversations, doesn’t it!

    2. fposte*

      I’m pretty much with Mediamaven, but can you clarify why this is your circus and not her manager’s? Are you HR or just a random draftee?

    3. Eric*

      Don’t know what your industry is or what its typical procedures are, but you’re right: it wouldn’t look good to fire someone right after a funeral, and it wouldn’t be right to either.

      From a perspective of pure self interest and concern about image from your org’s side, everyone has a network. This person may not be powerful, but she’ll definitely be unhappy, talk about it to someone, and word travels. You can’t go through life without making enemies — find me one one person who’s been in the working world for more than a year or two and says everyone they’ve worked with likes them, and I’ll find you a liar — but there’s no reason to go looking for them.

      I’d really push for a second chance or a “come to Jesus” meeting. If she’s been given too many second chances (maybe, the phone being off and voicemail being full is suspect), I’d still hold off on firing her until Friday or Monday. Perception matters.

  207. Eric*

    I’m considering going back to work for an old employer. I left on good terms, and I’ve regretted leaving almost as soon as I put in my notice. I keep up with the people I worked with at that company, because my new office is only a couple of blocks away, so it’s common to see them going for lunch. A couple of people also added me on Facebook and Instagram — I know this is usually considered unwise, but the company is pretty informal. I got drinks with a couple of those guys: non-managerial, but pretty senior ex-co-workers recently, and they said I’d probably be welcome with arms wide open and a raise if I wanted to return. I know that doesn’t mean much, but it has been stuck in my head.

    I was underpaid for how much time I put in, but the benefits were very solid: catered breakfast/dinner, healthy snacks in the office, a great 401(k) with a 6% match. Most importantly, I felt comfortable in the office; I knew everyone who worked there and I got along great with almost all of them. I am socially anxious and introverted, so I value that feeling of comfort in the office. If they paid what I’m making now – or even slightly less, considering I don’t have a 401(k) or insurance at my current job – I think I would be very happy to stay there for several years. I feel like leaving that job was an impulsive move, and that I was happier working there than either place I’ve worked since.

    I’m considering getting in touch with one of the senior people I’m friendly with, and telling them I’d like to return. I miss working with the people at that org, and I can walk in and start contributing on day one (they’re basically a leader in their small, but growing field). It’s also pretty common for people to leave the company and then return in 6-18 months. The major downside is that I may not be learning as much at this company as I would at others, but I’m active in several professional organizations that build my network and help me keep my skills current.

    My main worry is that they wouldn’t want to pay me that much, since I’ve gotten several substantial raises at my new jobs. However, I’ve also referred friends for my same role (at the same pay band), and they were offered a lot more than I made at that company. When I was making my transition plans, the folks I worked with acknowledged I was performing far above my level, so it is possible they’d give me the raise.

    This is not really a question; I’m just organizing my thoughts a bit. I’m still very open to comments, though.

    1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      I’m in touch with people from my previous job, I left on good terms, I miss them and the work. Several have asked me to return. In my case, I left because of one manager, that person is still there and the problems haven’t been addressed. Considering I had my first ever panic attack because of that job, I’m not going back until the problems are fixed.

      1. Eric*

        I wish that managers had to get references from the people who worked for them. I worked for someone similar and though the rest of the job was good on paper, I would never go back. The person in question is a ticking discrimination/retaliation complaint, but they have friends in high places who will protect them until it becomes incredibly egregious.

        The company I’m considering going back to wasn’t perfect. Sales would say anything at all to close a deal, leaving the engineering staff pulling crazy hours to get it done. By the time I left, though, the product and department had matured and that wasn’t happening like it was when the team was in its infancy. My choice to leave was impulsive — I got the offer after a particularly busy week, but I don’t have an issue pulling the same hours at my current salary. That’s why I’m considering returning. The social factor is big, too: I was friendly with the people there and I felt comfortable in the office because of that.

  208. Purplerains*

    Within the last two weeks to a month I’ve been feeling very overwhelmed at work (I’ve been in my position for 2.5 years). My tasks haven’t increased at all to account for this, but I’ve noticed sometimes my brain feels very fuzzy, like the tasks to get me from A to B aren’t always clear. I seem to need clarification more on some meetings that I’m supposed to schedule. It’s getting to the point where I’m starting to get concerned. Things in persona life aren’t any more stressful than usual. Any advice or people with similar experiences out there? Maybe my brain just needs a break, lol.

    1. fposte*

      If sleep, food, and exercise are still on point, I’d go for a doctor check just in case.

      1. Purplerains*

        Exercise has been really good, food not so much. I need to make more of an effort there for sure. If nothing changes, maybe a visit to the doc is the next step.

    2. Frankie Bergstein*

      Are vacations part of your work life / an option for you? If so, have you taken one recently?

      1. Purplerains*

        Just got back from first real vacation in a year (most of our vacation time is spent going back visiting family, so while fun, not really a vacation?) and I saw a noticeable difference in my overall outlook when I returned. I think we’ve also got some short trips planned for the summer which will help.

    3. RB*

      You could be fighting a very low grade virus that’s not actually making you sick but is still causing symptoms. Sleeping more and eating healthily are important if that’s what’s going on. If not, then maybe a vacation is in order, like Frankie said. Sometimes I bump up my vitamins, minerals, and herbs if that’s happening to me. Especially the B12, Iron, and Vitamin D, but a good multi will work just as well.

      1. Purplerains*

        Aha! You just reminded me that I could be low on iron (as I often am). I’ll start there.

        Thanks everyone for your care and comments!

    4. Patty*

      Do you have seasonal allergies and if so do you live in a location where spring has sprung? It could be allergan fog?

  209. Teapot Cleaner*

    Hello there,

    last week I wrote about relatives/ conflict of interest taking place at work. Some readers suggested I apply somewhere else. I was able to land an internal interview to another department today. The interview was complicated. However, I did my best efforts to answer the question professionally and with thoughtful responses. I did recognize that I was having a hard time smiling during the interview. I dresses for the interview, I took copies of my updated resume, and arrived on time.
    I did my best to explain that I have reached my limits in my job and that I am looking for growth.

    They will interview another candidate next week. However, I’m glad they called. They were very insightful about the position.

    My question to you readers is: Have you ever doubted your performance in an interview? How did it go?

    1. The New Wanderer*

      I had an all-day interview last fall. I gave a presentation that I thought went well, but without any specific feedback that’s just a guess. I had four or five hour long interviews (one during lunch) with one or two people for the rest of the day. I noticed the questions from the first two interviewers were not really what I was expecting but nothing I could have prepared for. They were very specific to the type of work and kind of relentless, rather than standard interview questions you typically practice ahead of time. The last few sets of interviews went okay, not great. I felt like I had at least some rapport with all but one guy (he was a brick wall), but I also felt like the interview got away from me a bit. I should have made a better case for my overall skills rather than staying down in the details, but that’s what they seemed to want. If there had been an opportunity, I missed it.

      I remember making a point to smile or look generally upbeat but feeling like it was more forced as the day went on. When the recruiter called me a few days later, she started off with “The team really liked you and it was a very hard decision but.” I was initially surprised to get rejected but it finally dawned that what they were looking for isn’t what I had to offer.

      Then again, I’ve had really smooth interviews (from my POV) and not gone further, so doubt isn’t much of a predictor IME.

      I hope you hear back something positive!

      1. Teapot Cleaner*

        Thank you for your feedback. Wow those were some lenghthy interviews. It’s quite awful that they were wearing you down.

  210. rachola*

    Change title with no official title change
    Hello I’m in editorial and recently requested a title change, following a mass layoff 5 months ago. Because I have been performing in two very distinct areas, I requested a more overarching title. It was rejected, but my bosses said I could use the suggested title in published articles. I don’t feel comfortable using a title that is not officially mine, although it’s been okayed to do so. On one hand, a better title would promote me to the public, but it’s not something I would put on my resume. Should I take advantage of this and try to forget about my pride? Or is my gut feeling correct (my gut feeling isn’t always right).

    1. BRR*

      In many fields it’s common to have an internal and external title. Does that happen in your’s?

  211. Frankie Bergstein*

    Hi everyone! Does anyone have ideas for a cute name for a recurring monthly meeting (at work)? Something benign and maybe even a pun… here are my bad examples:

    Monday Margaritas
    Friday fun
    Saving the best for last: meeting on the final Thursday of each month

    Thank you!!!

      1. Frankie Bergstein*

        Fair! Okay, I don’t have a margarita-providing means… Turnip Tuesday? Maybe not so fun!

    3. Argh!*

      Mindless Monday
      Turnaround Tuesday
      Wakeful Wednesday
      Thoughtful Thursday
      Frognacious Friday*

      *I couldn’t think of something logical, but I think I like this one best.

    4. LQ*

      Wednesday Walkabouts (sort of a walking stand up we used to do which would be a 15 minute walk in the skyways and talking about project statuses)

    5. Windchime*

      My little sub-team has a weekly recurring meeting. It’s official name is “[Teamname] Check-in”, but because we like to have fun, we call it the “Chicken”.

      Sorry. That’s all I’ve got.

    6. Kathenus*

      One place I worked had a monthly all staff meeting we called the DAM meeting – Departments All Meet. It was great to be able to talk about going to the DAM meeting, or what happened at that DAM meeting this month, and such.

  212. Noisy Conference Room*

    I sit at the desk closest to a frequently occupied conference room. Some people are good about closing the door to the conference room and some aren’t. If a meeting is underway and they leave the door open, would it be rude if I got up from my desk and closed it? The open doors and noisy meetings are driving me crazy and a closed door makes a world of difference for keeping things quieter.

      1. Seriously?*

        Yep. Unless you are glaring and slamming the door, no one would care where I work either.

    2. nep*

      I’d also put a polished sign on the door ‘Please keep door closed while meeting in session’ — something like that. Is that an option? (Are there windows for ventilation if need be?)

  213. ThatLibTech*

    Four jobs went up (two are permanent, two are contract) at a university in my field and I am very “breathing into a paper bag” about it. Eep! One is at a library I used to work at (contract), so I would LOVE if I could get that one. It’ll be a bit tricky for my resume seeing as, well, I can’t use two of them since they were and would be my former bosses.

    Now I just need to sit down and write out my cover letters and polish up my latest job experience section for the position I’m in now!

  214. WrittenPyramids*

    I’m 23 weeks pregnant, which is wonderful. I have two questions about it though:
    1. I am obviously pregnant now, and I told the people who will be impacted before I was really showing. Other people are finding out by looking at me. Which I think is fine? Should I be making other announcements? Like to the people in the weekly meetings I go to, just in case they are strict about the not asking until someone tells you?

    2. Our office’s secretary, who sits right by the door to the office suite is super excited for me, which is nice, but she expressed her excitement, by commenting on my belly (or makes a round belly motion with her hands while grinning) almost every time I walk past (which is almost every time I need to go to the bathroom, buy food, go to a meeting). My general preference for people who are not related to me or good friends commenting on my belly is never. I know I should just say something like “Luna, thank you so much for being so excited for me, but I’d rather you not comment on my stomach or my size” but I keep not doing it and just nodding when she comments. Tips?

    1. Buckeye*

      Congratulations!

      I don’t think you have to make announcements if you don’t want to. I never did because I always felt awkward saying, “Guess what everybody!” particularly to people I didn’t know very well and/or those who would be 0% affected by it. As long as you’ve prepped your team and anyone else who will be affected by your maternity leave, you should be set. Other people will figure it out one way or another.

      Your suggested script for talking to your secretary is a good one, though I get why it’s hard to say it in the moment. I hope you see it through, because her hyper-focus on your stomach all the time has got to be really uncomfortable.

  215. A Person*

    Well, in a happy turn of events, my boss put in two weeks notice today while I am waiting on paperwork for a written offer and start date for my own next job.

    I don’t want to tip anyone off until my start date is established, but how do I navigate the next week or so when my boss is transitioning projects to me that I am going to need to transition to someone else in very short order??

    My boss’s boss is the disaster everyone here is trying to flee.

    1. ExcelJedi*

      I would concentrate on making sure that your notes/documentation are as clear and complete as possible. Something’s going to be lost in translation, but make it as easy as possible for someone else to learn when neither of you are there.

      Congrats on getting out – and good luck!

      2. Thlayli*

        This. Work with your boss on making a written handover doc for each project, to make life easier for the person who replaces you.

    2. Argh!*

      Living well is the best revenge. Your boss’s boss will have to deal with the mess s/he created.

      It’s called Karma, and she’s a b…..

      1. A person*

        We’re part of the second wave leaving in three years. We’ll just be replaced with more chumps, sadly, upper management values her more.

    3. Hannah*

      Do you have a good relationship with your boss? If so, I’d just tell her that you’re probably going to be leaving. I mean, she’s leaving, so unless she can’t keep her trap shut, it’s not like she is going to be making any long term decisions about you and your work or try to fire you for job searching.

  216. ShrinkyClinks*

    When you’re applying for a job at a small business you’ve interned previously, is it worth it to let all of the employees know? I’m still in contact with one employee for other reasons and I’m sure they all know I’ve applied but is it worth it to contact them?

    1. Atalanta0jess*

      I don’t think so. There’s no reason for folks not involved in hiring to know. I’d reach out to a key contact who was involved in the process to let them know I’d applied and remind them of who I was, if necessary, and then leave it. I’m not sure what you’d gain by telling Everybody.

  217. Purrscilla*

    I’m part of a large team composed of several disciplines. Each discipline has a couple of leads and then there’s an overall manager. I’m a lead but low in the hierarchy – I report to my boss who reports to the overall manager. Lately I’ve been hearing about people in the other disciplines who are unhappy for various reasons. Some of the specific complaints I’ve heard involve communication issues with my boss’s boss and one of those had a gender element. (This is a male dominated industry.) I’m worried about the project and it’s stressing me out, but the people who are complaining are not my reports and I don’t know my boss’s boss that well. Is there anything that I can or should be doing beyond giving advice to people if they confide in me?

    1. Argh!*

      Your own boss would be the best person to ask. Someone who actually knows the person and the company climate can tell you if there’s any hope of squelching sexist behavior.

  218. MandM*

    Hi AAMs!

    I currently work for a state university in NY, I’m 21 weeks pregnant and due to have my first baby right before my one year work anniversary (I used to work at a private college). I have to use all my sick and vacation days to get any type of paid maternity leave, I decided to use all my time at half pay to extend it (will barely be 12 weeks). I was even Ok with taking some unpaid time if it means taking a full 12 weeks with my baby but I can’t because I carry our health insurance and have to be on payroll to get it.

    My husband works at a private university across the street and would also have to use vacation days to stay home with me but he gets 20 a year and was planning to use 15 (3 weeks) with me, he also gets the week between christmas and new years off without having to charge days and unlimited sick days for himself and family.

    The Dean at my school recruited my husband for a job that would be a great move for him career wise and a decent pay bump. It looks like hes going to get it (which is great!). He will start at 0 days and accrue 1.25 per month and have barely anything when I go into labor. I know for sure theyd be flexible if he wanted to work part time or take unpaid time but with me already going to half time pay we can not afford it!

    I know he should negotiate when he gets the offer but I’m just wondering if anyone has tried negotiating with a state institution, especially in NY – I feel like they won’t be as lenient as a private company.

    Before anyone asks – I do NOT get Short Term Disability or the NYS Paid Family Leave because it was not negotiated into my contract. Even though the state puts forth laws for other businesses, state institutions can opt in or out (crazy, I know please don’t get me started).

    Also, side note I feel so much less empowered as a woman the older I get. Maternity leave is stressing me out and it really sucks that we have to fight so hard to stay home for a little while with our newborns. It makes me want to cry sometimes.

    Sorry for the long post, any insight is much appreciated!!

    1. LQ*

      State government (not NY) employee in a union state. There are some ways you can get some kinds of …recognition (that may not be the right word) and negotiate for leave based on previous jobs amount of leave. If it is a union/contract I’d look at that and see what the options are (if you have good union people and are union you could try talking to them). But they aren’t going to turn you away if you try (or him if he does in this case).

    2. Thlayli*

      He can certainly try to negotiate but it sounds like ultimately you are going to have to decide which is more important – him being able to spend some time with you and newborn, or the increase in pay from the new job. Is there any way he could defer the job till after the newborn phase?

      1. Thlayli*

        Also, I know a bump on pay is great, but his unlimited sick days and holiday days will be worth a LOT with a new baby. Kids get sick and need a lot of doctors appointments. Some childcare providers also don’t take kids when they’re sick, so the ability to take time off to mind a sick kid is really beneficial.

        1. MAM*

          That is so true and something we have talked about. And the bump in pay would be great but it’s a also about 2 steps up for him career wise and would be an amazing opportunity for him.

  219. Paquita*

    I posted last week that my state job application had been forwarded to the hiring manager on Friday after the posting closed on Wednesday. Well, this Wednesday I had and interview. This afternoon I had a second interview. First one was with the manager and the manager of an adjacent area. Today I talked to the boss’s boss (the controller).

  220. Keep Your Eyes On The Prize*

    Does anyone know how to motivate students at this time of year? I train and supervise university aged students. They’ve been great all year long but now with the end (graduation/summer etc) in sight most of them have lost their motivation to show up. The work is a weekly 2 or 3 hour shift which they must complete as part of their program. Today 2 of them didn’t show up without any notice and it impacts my work and the work of the ones who do make their shifts. How can I get them to focus in this last month before they fly away forever?

    1. Kimberlee, no longer Esq.*

      First, I would email or talk in person (whichever makes sense in your context) each person who missed specifically, and say “I saw you weren’t at The Thing. Because completion of this program is required for you to graduate in May with your degree, I’m hoping that there’s a good reason for this absense. Did you have some kind of emergency or late-breaking commitment that caused you to miss the training without giving me a heads-up?” And then just see what they say. Ultimately, they probably don’t, but the goal of this first-level thing is to honestly to shame them (internally, to themselves). Secondary is the reminder of the consequences. This approach has worked ON me in the past, so hopefully it will work on your students.

      If you want to have a carrot to accompany your stick, you could get and advertise some kind of treat for the next one, like donuts or cookies or something. I wouldn’t JUST do this, since students who are already taking advantage of your goodwill will then think they can extract bribes to attend something, but it might help in addition to a reiteration of consequences.

    2. A Nickname for AAM*

      Can you look into ending their program a few weeks earlier in future years? It might legitimately be difficult, with finals/graduation/moving/lining up the next steps. Especially for graduating seniors at a college where most students live on-campus, it’s their last month or so to spend with their friends before everyone moves away.

    3. Jennifer*

      Not really, unless there’s some kind of consequence to bailing that they won’t like. Which there might be in this case? Will this stop them from graduation if they keep flaking?

      I hear ya, my assistant disappeared halfway through the day because my boss seems to be allowing her on “eh, come in whenever” schedule lately and hell if I know what’s going on. But I lose her in a few weeks anyway, so…oh well. Not much consequence other than she gets a smaller paycheck.

    4. Red Reader*

      Is it that they’re not motivated to show, or that they are frantically cramming for finals and whatnot? I’ve been saying for a month now that the last four years of grad school have been cake comparatively, it’s the last four weeks that are going to kick my butt. I’ve taken four days off from work in the last few weeks to work on my last-semester’s homework and final projects — literally the first time, in four years of full time school and full time work, that I have felt the need to do that. It’s not that I’m any less focused on work or anything, it’s just all coming down to the wire and yeah, I’m not keeping all the balls in the air quite as handily as I normally do. No-showing is definitely not cool, but if something’s gotta give, then yeah, maybe a 2 hour work shift is going to be it.

  221. ExcelJedi*

    How emotional should a manager be when it comes to her direct reports?

    I have a couple people in my life who tell me how their managers say things like “I’m so disappointed in you,” or “I didn’t think you were the kind of person to act like this” for minor or day-to-day errors. (For example: a miscommunication over email that made one miss a deadline by 2 days, or someone with no customer interactions having a less than stellar attitude one day (think quiet/lack of normal sociability because of cramps) when that’s not their norm.)

    My instinct is that those kinds of comments are out of line and undermine the supervision relationship, but I’m wondering if I’m giving them bad advice when I tell them that’s not normal. What do you all think?

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      You are totally correct here. In addition to the reasons of “weirdly personal” and “undermining,” they’re also inappropriate because, for example, “I’m disappointed in you” is NOT actionable feedback. I can’t do a blessed thing about your feelings of “disappointment,” so let’s pivot the conversation over to what the product needs more of, or less of, in order to meet your standards. Sheesh.

  222. Just Someone*

    I’m on the spectrum and… my colleague just told me that people don’t like me and they think I’m mean. She was very nice about it… she only brought it up because I had first brought up my difficulties.

    The industry I work in is probably the most opposite industry you should work in if you’re on the spectrum.

    I do internal operations, and my role itself is something I’m good at. Are there any industries that would suit me better? Finance?

    The issue isn’t just that I’m not very good at social interaction — it’s that I don’t know when there is an issue unless someone tells me. And if you’re in an industry with people-pleasers who are non-confrontational, that can be a problem.

    Any advice?

    1. Just Someone*

      Has Alison done a post on how to work with employees on the spectrum/how to work with others when you’re on the spectrum????

      1. A Nickname for AAM*

        One thing I think you should bear in mind is the person who is telling you “People think you’re mean, people don’t like you,” and why they are telling you this.

        I work in a field that also favors extroverts, and I’m frankly not one. After a few years of hearing people say stuff like that to me, I started really looking at it objectively. I have a high rate of staff retention and excellent relationships with staff. When I was up for a promotion, my patrons and employees aggressively lobbied my boss for her to give it to me: when I didn’t get the promotion, they bugged her about it for a year. When I moved away, I got a going-away party and a giant pile of gifts.

        It turned out, the only people who didn’t like me were the people claiming other people didn’t like me. Everyone else did! Consider the source. The source might be the issue.

        1. A Nickname for AAM*

          Oh, and also, I’ve had to deal with employees whose personality was abrasive or causing issues as a manager. I would *never* tell someone “Nobody likes you” as part of their coaching, and I would always give examples of something they did that they felt went one way, and why people interpreted it another way, and maybe review how it could go better in the future.

          1. Just Someone*

            Yeah. Thanks for the comment. Well, I totally would agree with you. Definitely last week before she told me these things, I found her annoying and a bit abrasive… I mentioned some of the specifics in a comment, below. I guess I’d ignore her, but she’s being promoted. And she complained to my boss about me. I don’t know if people see her the same way I do or if I should be worried for my job and jump ship. I’d never say that to someone either… when there’s an issue with someone, I don’t say, “you’re disrespectful and lazy” I say, “hey if you’re the only one in the office, please answer the phone.”

            I guess my actual question, which I didn’t realize before, is what do I do now? Should I talk to my boss about what she said? She’s very like, “My perspective is the only perspective,” and that’s how she communicates, so I don’t know how others perceive that.

    2. LQ*

      I think having someone trusted to tell you these things helps. I pull things that I feel are a little tricksey when I start in a job or in an area. But mostly? I try to stay with the same place long enough so that people come to know my work and value me for that and write off most of the less than great social interactions I have.

      And I keep a notebook stored away safely from all eyes that has tips on how to deal with the individuals I work with specifically, how to know when they are upset at me, how to smooth things over, what to ask them about to be seen as friendly. And when I’m going to work with a new set of people I tap into one of my trusted How to Human advisers and ask them for tips on how to handle the new humans (and then work backward from their filter, but at least I don’t have to go in cold).

      The people I work with are all SUPER nonconfrontational, passive passive, at best (worst) passive aggressive, and super indirect. But I’ve built in some tricks (start out doing very friendly things, smiling a lot (I was always a resting bitch face plus not good at social interaction so I sucked it up and changed to default smiling when I’m inside the office building, happy or not I plaster a smile on) and being very polite (which is the only social thing I’m good at, I’m very polite because there are nice clear rules to follow!)). And I’ve built up relationships enough to ask people to be direct with me, like you’ve got with your person, that’s a really good key to tap into. Figure out what her currency is and pay her lots of it if she’ll keep helping you.

      I think you can keep doing the work you do especially if you enjoy it and you’re good at it.

      1. Just Someone*

        Thanks for your comment. I appreciate the support. But your notebook idea gives me anxiety! How do you come up with things for it in the first place?

    3. Tau*

      Hi! Fellow spectrum person here. I’m not sure how much help I’ll be because I’m pretty good at faking social interaction (at least I think so). I do work in tech, which helps, and is a good industry as far as social camouflage is concerned at least if you’re in a technical role.

      Some thoughts:

      – I would… be careful about your coworker. You say she’s nice about it, but “people don’t like you and think you’re mean” is an extremely unhelpful thing to say because it’s completely unconstructive. There’s nothing actionable there, nothing specific you can work on, and it’s couched in really inflammatory terms that are basically guaranteed to make you doubt your own self-worth. Saying that to you was unkind, even if it’s true.

      – on which note, if you feel she means well and if you feel you can stomach it may be worth digging into that. What exactly is it you’re doing that leaves people with the impression that you’re mean?

      – never, ever, ever discount the possibility that you are fine and the other people involved are the ones being shitty about perfectly reasonable behaviour. I think a lot of us on the spectrum have this tendency to assume that anything that ever goes wrong socially in our vicinity must be our fault, which is crazymaking and leaves us really vulnerable. At the bare minimum, trash-talking someone behind their back is bad behaviour, and so is telling someone other people don’t like them. So none of your coworkers are coming out of this smelling like roses.

      – re: bringing up your difficulties… again, we’re different people and what works for me may not work for you, but I personally don’t mention that I have any social skills issues. I worry that mentioning it will draw attention to it and make people start looking for the problems, resulting in a) me coming off as worse than otherwise, because minor odd behaviours that would be glossed over will get picked up on, b) if I end up having some sort of inter-personal conflict or facing a complaint or some sort at work, people may be predisposed to blame it on me.

      – general inter-office survival tip: small talk. If you don’t do it, I’d look into figuring out a repertoire. “What did you do/are you planning on your weekend” is a good one. Talking about the weather. How you desperately need this caffeine boost. Possibly (?) asking people about their pets or kids. Light, brief topics that you can use if you run into someone at the coffee machine or so.
      The thing about this sort of interaction is that it works as social bonding and will make people more inclined to think of you as part of the group, which will act as a counter-point to any issues they have with you in work communication. Striking the right tone in work communication is hard. I say I think I’m pretty good at the social thing for an autistic person, but I still think I can come on too strong in work-related topics and leave people feeling steam-rollered, and then I over-compensate and go too far in the other direction, and it feels nearly impossible to get right. The hope is that the people affected will go “okay, they were pretty intense in that meeting, but Tau was perfectly nice to me in the kitchen this morning and we talked about our weekend plans, it must just be how they work” instead of “Tau was mean in that meeting, they must be a jerk.”
      (I had a coworker who I just could. not. manage to click with with work-related communication. She felt I was shutting her out, I felt I shouldn’t need to specially invite her into conversations, I tried to help but seemed to only make it worse… but we got on well socially and had some nice social chit-chat conversations, so in the end we parted on good terms.)

      – other inter-office survival tip: some minor softening language in e-mails can work wonders, again if you’re not doing it already. Greeting, “could you please… when you have time… thanks so much!”, that sort of thing. I… know people talk about women overdoing this and it undermining them, but honestly I don’t worry about that too much in comparison to coming off as unpleasantly brusque. I mean, let’s just say don’t think I’m ever going to run into trouble at work for being too hesitant about expressing my opinions.

      I hope some of that helps, and I might stop by again in the (European) morning if I think of more – I know there was a post Alison did on autistic people in the workplace ages back but I can’t find it right now. Just know that I’m wishing you luck, and never ever forget the possibility that maybe you are A-OK and you work with terrible people!

      1. Just Someone*

        That is really good advice. Thanks.

        Yeah, I actually just woke up (the day after this conversation with this person) and realized she had not once acknowledged me at all in the scenario. It was like, she was hell-bent on “JS is mean” and then I told her and it was like, “JS is mean but isn’t trying to be.” Not once was she like, “Oh, I didn’t realize when you said ‘I’ll send it to you in two minutes’ you actually meant ‘I’ll send it to you in two minutes’ and not, ‘I’m not going to send it to you, so please keep asking me every 15 seconds and interrupting me so it takes longer.’”

        Besides that incident, where I was nice at first, but then after about the fifth time of telling her, I was very stern… she mentioned me being mean in a more general sense. Like, I think I’m being direct in emails, but people think I’m pissed off and hate them and telling them what’s what.

        Anyway, she is probably right some people were saying that, but I have to remember it’s through HER filter. It’s also possible she complained to her work buddies about me, and they we’re like, “Oh yeah JS does seem pretty curt sometimes,” and she translated that to, “A lot of people think you’re mean.”

        I’m starting to think maybe telling people I’m on the spectrum isn’t helpful, because people are more understanding for like a week, but people’s personalities are people’s personalities, and if someone is offended by me, they’re pretty much just going to be offended by me.

        I didn’t mention — she told me she complained to my boss about me. And one of the VPs made a comment that made me think she’d complained about how I worded an email. She’s been there longer than anyone… and she’s being promoted… I guess I wonder how much clout she has. Like, should I also complain to my boss about her? I don’t know how other people see her, so I don’t know how screwed I am. It’s just not really like me to go complain to someone’s boss like that.

        You’re right — she didn’t give me anything actionable. I even told her she could always teach me how to treat her if there was something specific.

        I think I’ve gotten better at small talk, but in the past people who didn’t “get it” would translate it as my being “unstable” and “unpredictable” or “scary,” because I seem nice at first but I could be direct at any moment.

        I wonder if I should just get a new job in an industry that isn’t so much about appearances and all that… but I also feel like, if it weren’t for her, there also wouldn’t be a problem.

        1. KayEss*

          Don’t complain to your boss about her. What you can do is ask your boss if they have any feedback or concerns about your communications, which makes you look proactive about correcting problems rather than stirring up drama. If your boss is trustworthy and you have a good relationship with them, you could add that you’re worried that you may be unintentionally rubbing some people the wrong way and you want to do everything possible to ensure that collaboration goes smoothly. After that, I’d treat any non-actionable “you’re mean” feedback that doesn’t come from your boss like it just… doesn’t exist. Unless you work somewhere massively dysfunctional, if the VP thought there was a problem with how your emails were worded you’d hear about it directly. Until then, it doesn’t matter.

          Honestly, she sounds like kind of a jerk. Probably your boss either knows she’s kind of a jerk, or is otherwise weighing her complaint about you against what they know of your work and personality. Most bosses are not going to jump to a disciplinary inquisition over a single complaint about email wording or brusque interaction, unless you cussed her out or something else egregious.

          1. Just Someone*

            Thanks for the advice. The person who complained to my boss about me does tend to make things a Big Deal. She said she told him, “I’ve NEVER been talked to like that in my life!” and she said I yelled. I didn’t cuss at her. I didn’t yell. In this one circumstance, she kept asking me to send her a thing and I kept telling her she needed to wait a minute to put together the document for her, and she got frustrated and stood up at her desk and told me to send it to her again, and I said very sternly, “You need to wait.”

            I wonder if I should talk to my boss and say we worked it out? Or do you still think making it general about my communication and not bringing her up at all is a better thing to do? It seems like people are pretty passive and don’t give feedback so I wouldn’t even know if my job is on the line.

            1. KayEss*

              Yeah, I’d be a bit taken aback if someone said that to me… but I don’t pester people for things like a child trying to get their mom’s attention. I can also definitely believe that her behavior was frustrating enough to make being curt with her understandable–I’m not on the spectrum but I’m a huge introvert with a lot of social anxiety and can quickly get very brusque when I’m flustered/annoyed, and I can see myself easily being in your situation.

              I do still think you should open the conversation by making it about your communication in general, especially if you don’t usually get a lot of feedback like you say. That gives your boss a big, neon-lit opening to bring up this incident if they want to address it. If they don’t bring it up even then, I think it’s safe to let it go. (By which I mean definitely try not to do it again, but don’t let yourself be consumed with worry over this one incident.)

        2. Tau*

          +1ing everything KayEss said. Definitely approach your boss, but definitely don’t complain about your coworker. Avoiding mentioning her at all is probably the best way forward. You want to come off as a professional who wants to be as effective at their job as they can be and is worried something about the way they communicate is holding them back. If she does complain this gives you the moral and professional high ground.

          And yeah, with this extra context I’m inclined to say your coworker is the problem, and I absolutely wouldn’t jump to leaving your industry. I think you’re spot-on with how “other people think you’re mean” probably came about, and I’d take anything she says with a huge grain of salt. And – like KayEss said – the one whose job it is to give you feedback is your boss, and if your work does have a problem with something about your behaviour they should use that channel to communicate it.

          I’m starting to think maybe telling people I’m on the spectrum isn’t helpful, because people are more understanding for like a week, but people’s personalities are people’s personalities, and if someone is offended by me, they’re pretty much just going to be offended by me.

          I… really hate that I have to agree with this, but I do. I am not out about being on the spectrum in my professional life. I originally planned to, but my mother talked me out of it, and in retrospect she was wise to do so. It feels like every time I’ve read a story on AAM of someone telling their work they’re on the spectrum, it went badly for them. At this point I’d advise people to stay mum about it unless they need to disclose for accommodations. It really sucks, but it is what it is. As you say, social interaction doesn’t work in such a way that “oh by the way, I’m on the spectrum” will make people stop being offended by you, or stop being indirect when they want you to stop doing something, or the like. And IMO the risk of the person now viewing everything you do through the lens of all the (often very negative) stereotypes they have about the spectrum is real, and not worth it.

          1. Just Someone*

            Thanks for the comment. Well… in the moment, I wasn’t thinking straight. I obviously got defensive after she told me she complained to my boss about me, and I was so thrown off… it didn’t occur to me that someone telling you something cruel because they’re trying to “help” you just means they’re a jerk. I don’t know what to do now. I mean, other than like… only talk to her when necessary. I mean, I’m 100% positive she’s already told everyone on the team what I’ve said by now… ughhhhh…

  223. VictoriaQ*

    Ok, so I know this maybe isn’t the MOST relevant Ask A Manager Friday comment, but does anyone have an opinion on whether Channel Awesome can recover as a business from this controversy?

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZFkR__B3Mk9EYQglvislMUx9HWvWhOaBP820UBa4dA/preview
    (That’s the full doc, but contains a link to an abridged version.)

    Apparently there was so much going on behind the scenes (work injuries, terrible communication, higher-ups giving exactly 0 shits about employees, etc), and Channel Awesome’s response has basically been “we’re sorry you feel that way”. Could a company ever recover from this sort of thing, or would they need a total rehaul? There’s already been a mass exodus of fans and producers from CA because of this doc.

      1. VictoriaQ*

        I mean, I hope not. I hope that the content creators don’t get burned because it’s not their fault, but the owners? The management? I hope /something/ happens to them.

    2. Alton*

      I thing what’s difficult about a situation like this is 1) a lot of the major complaints are about the people in charge, 2) the person who’s most visible as the “face” of the company (Doug Walker) doesn’t actually own it, so he may have limited power to change the company even if he wants to, and 3) CA really depends on reputation and popularity for survival. They need to attract and keep strong talent. At this point, a lot of their older, more successful producers have little reason to maintain ties with them except personal loyalty, and many have already left. And if producers who have less capital feel like they’re being treated poorly *or* that the site’s reputation is tarnished enough that being affiliated with it is no longer impressive, then there’s little motivation for them to stick around. Also, a lot of this controversy has been building for a while, but I think the #MeToo movement and building awareness and frustration over sexual harassment are helping provide momentum.

      Also, Channel Awesome started in 2008, which was still in the earlier days of YouTube becoming a major platform. Even without the controversy, I’m not sure if there’s as much demand for their particular business model as there used to be (speaking personally, becoming aware of some controversy a few years back soured me on CA, but a bigger influence in my viewing habits was that their site was a bit tedious to navigate and it was becoming easier and easier to find the producers I enjoyed on YouTube).

      1. VictoriaQ*

        Those are good points. I don’t really want Channel Awesome to ever bounce back (though I feel bad for any of the contributors who might be tarnished by association), if only because they had years to deal with things and they failed to do so. Not to mention that a lot of the accusations cross the line from things like ‘bad management’ to ‘probably illegal’ and ‘really awful, I can’t even’. I’ve been watching a lot of videos discussing the history and the background. Still I’m so shocked that management would somehow think this would lead to a successful business model. I mean, the site has been operating for ten years, so I guess they weren’t /wrong/.

        It was so tedious! I remember using the site less and less because while I liked some reviewers (NChick and Todd), I could never figure out what anybody else did, and everything seemed to have Doug’s face slapped on it, and I never really liked his stuff. While I think an aggregate site like CA could be cool (it consolidates a lot content you might like in one area whereas YT is a bit more spread out), the layout and quality just… wasn’t there.

  224. Coastal*

    Any thoughts on how to manage potentially leaving a job (and a field) forever, very soon after starting?

    I’m graduating from my B.Sc. this month and will hopefully be starting medical school in the fall. However, I’m in Ontario (Canada), which has the stiffest competition in the country for med school spots and results won’t be released until May. Even then, I could be put on the waitlist.

    I’ve been applying for jobs as if I knew I wasn’t getting in, because I don’t want to be months behind the new grad wave if I’m not successful in this cycle. I haven’t been disclosing that I’m waiting on the admissions results. However, if I accept a job and then receive an offer for a med school spot somewhere, I would have to leave very soon after starting.

    Any advice on the best way to handle this?

    1. Seriously?*

      The fact that you would not be trying to be hired in that field again makes it a lot easier. You may burn a bridge, but it isn’t one you want to cross again anyway.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I don’t know Canadian university schedules, but it sounds like you will know if you will be going to med school very shortly after starting a job (as in, you’d graduate in May and also find out about med school in May). Is that right?

      In that case, I think you can proceed with interviewing without saying anything. Most hiring processes will take at least several weeks, so you’ll be pretty close to finding out whether you got into med school by the time you have to juggle any offers.

      1. Coastal*

        You’re right about the timing, there’s less than two weeks between my last symposium and the results release date. However, med schools here keep big waitlists, which could push my date of actually knowing to the end of May or even all the way to August!

        1. zora*

          So, at the end of the waitlist, is there still a possibility you won’t get in at all this year and will have to try again next year?

          If that is a possibility (even a slim one), then I would still proceed without saying anything. Assume you aren’t getting in at all this round. Then if you *do* get in off the waitlist, at that point you can tell them it was a surprise that you got this spot at the last minute, apologize and resign at that point.

  225. I'm A Little TeaPot*

    This is weird. Old job posted my position this week. In the past 2 days, I’ve had 3 people ask me to come back, including a director, manager, and senior staffer. Was also told that the executive director wants me to come back.

    I’ve told all of them that the reason why I left hasn’t changed, so I can’t come back. This is the price you pay when you have someone in mgmt who isn’t good at managing people.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Good on you for being honest about why you left and won’t return. It’s on them if they won’t listen.

  226. Forking Great Username*

    I’m going to my first job fair in my field (education) next Friday! Crossing my fingers that one of my preferred districts will be looking for someone with my areas of certification.

    Any general job fair advice? I’m sure it’s been asked before, and I’ve been researching like crazy, but I really want to do everything I can to stand out a bit and make a positive first impression.

    Side note: During our mock interviews last week, the person observing mine said that I gave a very strong interview and shouldn’t have trouble finding a job…but to watch my use of slang words. Her example was that I used the word random. I was a bit baffled – do any of you think of the word random as slang?

    1. LQ*

      If you say something like…”That’s so random” or “That analogy was really random” (this one I used today!) then yes I think you could say it was a little slangey?

      2. Mephyle*

        Totally what LQ said. Example of not-slang use: “The sample was selected using weighted stratified random sampling.” Example of borderline slang/not-slang: “A random person came up to me and asked…”

  227. beanie beans*

    Ok, last minute panicking. I supposedly have an interview Monday at 2, but the invitation was just a “hold this time” and they would send the details of where to go and who to ask for this week.

    It’s 2:30 on Friday – should I email my contact today? Or wait til Monday? I stink at patience, so I always try to resist emailing when I should really just wait, but this seems silly!

    And to make the whole thing even more obnoxious, this was an interview that was originally scheduled for this past Tuesday but got cancelled at the last minute.

    1. nep*

      I could be wrong on this, but I would e-mail the contact before COB today, just so you can plan accordingly. (Perhaps you did already?)

      1. beanie beans*

        Ok, email sent copying both of the people I’ve been dealing with. Thanks for reassuring me my expectations weren’t out of whack.

        I’ve been pretty excited about the position – the first two interviews over the phone were pretty smooth and coordinated well, but this third one (in-person) has been a bit chaotic. And when I originally started this process they asked if I could start as early as April 16th. Heh.

  228. Free Meerkats*

    I was a reference for a longtime friend, previous coworker and got a call last week. I managed to work in that she went to Clown College when asked about communicating with people and the checker was like, “Clown College isn’t on her resume!” My response was that’s not normally something one would put on a resume for an engineering position and he agreed with that, but seemed to like it.

    I must have said something right, she just got the offer and accepted the job this afternoon! It’s a good feeling to have helped.

    1. Triplestep*

      That’s great!

      I was a reference for someone in a suuuuuper-secret way, since no one I worked with or her boss could I was doing this, and we both knew when she left all hell would break loose and feelings would be hurt. She got the job and was promoted recently. It does feel really good to have helped!

  229. Mimmy*

    Feeling a little guilty about something: Receiving positive feedback at a job that I don’t love

    I’ve been at my current job for a little over a year. Quite frankly, I didn’t think I’d last this long. I usually chat with my supervisor once a week as a sort of check-in, and she is always saying I’m doing a good job; today, she noted a few specific things. She and I get along well and I enjoy chatting with her. Additionally, the students I work with all seem to like me, some of them expressing gratitude.

    Pretty good, right? Well … I don’t love the job. I have grown a bit in the position, but I could never do it full time (I only work 3 days a week, generally every other day). Plus, while the students and other instructors are generally pretty awesome, I don’t agree with a lot of the management decisions. Let’s just say that my supervisor is probably the sanest of the management team. Even with her, I don’t know that she fully gets it when I describe some of the difficulties I encounter. As I muddle through each day at work, I’m secretly plotting my escape. Well … trying to at least, lol.

    Is this weird??

    1. Jill*

      Just because you don’t love a job doesn’t mean you can’t do it well, as you seem to be doing. What’s to feel guilty about?

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I think it’s admirable to get positive feedback when you don’t love what you’re doing. It shows that you’re committed to being the best employee you can be even if you’re not completely “bought in”.

    3. Hannah*

      I’m not sure I quite understand. Do you think that only people who love their jobs can be good at them and deserve appreciation?

      On the flip side, would you think that someone who LOVES the job, but totally sucks at it, deserves accolades?

      I really hate most of my job, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think I deserve appreciation/praise when I do well at it. Even though I don’t like it, I still try to do a good job, which you probably do too.

    4. Mimmy*

      Thanks everyone – I needed that sanity check :)

      I think I’m experience what many people feel when they know they want to eventually move on from a job. I don’t mean to suggest that I don’t deserve the good feedback. I just know that if I do move on, I’m going to feel bad because I’m the main instructor in the area that I teach and I know I’ve had a positive impact on the students. It’s a state job, so I don’t know how much bureaucracy would be involved if I were to leave. My classification is technically per diem (I didn’t have to go through a civil service exam or anything), so maybe I’m worrying for nothing.

  230. Triplestep*

    What is the right time to ask about a potential employer about their hiring needs with respect to start date? My daughter is graduating in May and has been applying to jobs. Today she had a phone interview that lasted less than five minutes because the first question was about when she could start, and it turned out they needed somebody to start within two weeks. So she spent all week preparing for a phone interview that never even needed to happen as this could have been cleared up by email. (Or by any savvy recruiter who would know that a student or employed person would likely not be able to start within two weeks, and the search should be narrowed to just the unemployed.)

    At least it was not as bad as the last time this happened; that employer bypassed the phone interview and had her travel five hours to an in-person interview at which she found out they needed somebody to start a month before she is to graduate.

    I would love to advise her about an appropriate way to ask about start date without insulting the recruiter’s intelligence, since any half decent one would see on her resume she is graduating in May. I wouldn’t think it would pose a problem for her to mention her availability, but the fact that this keeps happening makes me wonder if it’s a topic that recruiters do not want to approach via email. Should this not be brought up? Is it taboo to ask about?

    I suppose in about a month it won’t be an issue anymore, so she could just wait it out. I guess I’m half-venting since I’m pretty pissed on her behalf right now. (And sad for her since they keep getting her hopes up unnecessarily.)

    2. zora*

      Yes, she really has to be clear in her cover letter. You can’t count on recruiters to infer pretty much anything between the lines of your resume and cover letter. If you want them to know something you have to say it.

      And especially in this case. There are college seniors who finish their credits in the first semester of senior year, and either have no classes, or only a thesis to finish, but still list their official graduation date as May. If you are sending your application out, they are assuming you are ready to work now. And in some industries waiting more than 2 weeks for someone to start is very rare. While in others, they are often looking for people a quarter or two ahead of time. But it really depends on the industry.

      It should be in the first paragraph of her cover letter. “I am a graduating senior at Llama College and will be available to begin work on May 14th.”

    3. Triplestep*

      Thanks, you two. @zora, you raise a good point that “expected graduation date” on a resume does not necessarily mean that the candidate hasn’t finished coursework and is ready to start a job. But if a job has a non-negotiable start date, I cannot think of a reason why the recruiter not make that clear before setting up an interview?

      The first organization was hiring for a grant-funded role and that is what drove their start date. The second one wanted to on-board someone within two weeks, which is just unrealistic and the recruiter should have been a.) aware of that and b.) more transparent about it. That is just ridiculous.

      I texted with my daughter about this morning – she asked if she should bother applying to roles with an April start date. Given that there’s only a few more weeks in April, I said go ahead, but if she was contacted by one of them, she should mention when writing back that she would be available beginning the third week in May.

  231. Overeducated*

    Guys, I have bseen told that my “grace period” at new job is over and next week I get “thrown into the deep end,” meaning I become team lead on a new job function. Wish me luck, I need it….

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      Congratulations! With this blog’s archive of amazing information, I am sure you will rarely make a mis-step.

  232. Anon - surviving a bad boss*

    I have a bad-boss-who-isn’t-going-away, and a grandboss-who-doesn’t-care; boss doesn’t pull her weight (we’re a team of 2) and is toxic, both about the work and constant attempts to be friendly. I wouldn’t mind the workload so much but dealing with boss is difficult, personally and emotionally draining to the point where I dread seeing her – it’s the only part of the job I dread, but it’s put a damper on a job I love.

    All attempts at dealing reasonably and managing up have failed; I don’t trust her to not turn on me no matter what I do, so I don’t feel I can change the situation, just the way I react to it. The stress has become physical, bleeds into my home life and honestly makes me a person I’m not proud to be.

    I’m looking to leave, but I’m in government and moves up/across my level are rare so it’s taking a while. I’m trying to do self-care as best I can and my next step is to access our Employment Assistance. How did you survive facing your bad boss every day until you could get out?

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      Don’t look too far ahead, because then you’ll start to anticipate problems, and make yourself anxious. Just take one hurdle at a time, throughout the day. Over one hurdle? Great. You won’t know how much time you’ll have until the next “scene,” but you take the time to “rest” by staying busy getting your actual work done until you’re interrupted again. By the time your workday ends, you will have gotten over a lot of hurdles, but by training yourself to not anticipate the anxiety that these problems prompt, you can sort of “ebb and flow” your energy so at the end of your day you are not quite as exhausted. Also, if you have at least one “support person” whose discretion and advice you can trust (either another colleague at your current workplace, or maybe a friend who works elsewhere), you might be able to stay in touch with this person throughout the day, or every few days, discreetly, using your home email account on your work computer (if that’s allowed) to ask for advice, or guidance, when something happens. Doing some searches on this blog using search terms like “managing up,” “work stress,” “anxiety” and so on will probably yield answers to letters from others who’ve walked in the valley where you are now. Finally, make sure you are taking all the breaks and lunch period time you are legally allowed to, and leave your desk/work area, even if it’s just to walk around outside the building. Physically getting away from the area will give your body a needed break. You are resilient, and you *will* survive this. Please know we are rooting for you.

      1. Anon - surviving a bad boss*

        Thank you – not looking ahead is a great step. I do tend to worry and wonder what thing I’m doing now I going to be fodder for “discussion” later – she’s extremely insecure and obsesses over any perceived slight, never in the moment, so I never know what’s being saved for later. It would help my day to day a lot to not focus on that. I’m trying really hard to just it roll off my back because I also know it’s not me, but it’s an ongoing effort to keep remembering this and stay pleasant.

        I like the tip on getting away – I used to be vigilant about taking outside walks but the cold and damp has kept in the last few months. I’m thinking it’d be worthwhile to invest in a fun pair of rain boots and umbrella to keep at my desk!

        One day at a time…

    2. Triplestep*

      Oh my … are you me? I am in a job that I am very well-suited to skill-wise, but my boss is just an awful manager, and the kind of person I would actively avoid in my personal life. Her attempts to be friendly actually backfire terribly because of this, and I’d be much happier if she didn’t try at all.

      I’m sorry that you don’t have any support at work – we are a team of three, and my co-worker is very much on the same page I am. Plus, I genuinely like everyone else that I have to work with – is there anyone you work with on another team that you can be yourself around? Even if you’re not commiserating about work stuff, it might help to have times of the day you can relax and not be “on”.

      Here’s what’s helped me:

      – Actively job searching.

      – Internal self-talk, and then moving on. If her behavior is relatively predictable, just be ready to remind yourself that *that thing she just said or did* is part of a greater pattern, and just more evidence that you are sane, skilled and good at what you do, while she is … well, she is who she is. And then move on quickly from that thought.

      – Organizing my work day around healthy meal planning and going to the gym. I look at my job as just one thing on the list of things I need to accomplish that day, not more important than my health.

      – Trying to come and go at the same time every day. In most of my previous jobs this would have gotten some side-eye (I’m exempt) but I am open about my gym attendance which gives a reason for my prompt leave time. (I think this would be more obnoxious if I looked like a gym rat, but I look like a middle-aged lady who needs to get in shape).

      – Getting ready for leaving in the morning before I go to bed. It’s hard to get up in the morning and get ready for a job that sucks the life out of you. So I make sure that before I relax for the evening, I have my lunch made, my clothing in order, gym stuff packed, etc. It was hard to establish this routine at first, but well worth it. I shower at night (even on non-gym nights) and actually have shortened the time to between hair cuts to make it easier to style. Yes, even this was to help cope with the job. Think about the things you need to do to get ready for work – there are probably things you can do to make getting ready easier, even if they are not obvious “work coping skills”.

      – I am actively working on getting more sleep. The above getting ready for the next day at night works well for this. I am also trying to get to sleep earlier, and not stay up watching TV. I enjoy mindless TV before bed, though, so this is hard, but I think my next step will be to not have screen time before bed. (The common wisdom is that this should improve sleep quality.)

      Good luck – you have all my sympathy, empathy, and good thoughts for finding a new job more quickly than you think you will!

      1. Anon - surviving a bad boss*

        Yikes, I’m sorry to hear you’re in the same boat! Not a fun boat to be on! My boss is always trying to be my friend and it is just cringy and uncomfortable. Please don’t!

        I am thankful to have a couple old colleagues I still stay in touch with, and they give me something to look forward to every day. As Tabby mentions, I also have a couple people I can email throughout the day and it is such a relief.

        I like your perspective that work is just one more thing to be done, and this is true. I am lucky in that I love the rest of my job and do work that I know is meaningful and useful to those I serve, and in that respect, I get more than enough from my job and have been trying to focus on the rest of my life. If only there were less work hours in a day :). I do like to sandwich so the job is a un-tasty but healthy meat in an otherwise satisfying sandwich of life; I try to make an every day life that I love. And you’re so right – sleep! I was sooooo much less cranky dealing with her after I started sleeping more every day. Last night was bad so I’m on guard. Trying to err on the side of sleepy and mellow rather than agitated lol.

        Good luck to you too – fingers crossed!

  233. Joanne*

    For those who have Health Savings Accounts (HSA), and then switched jobs, how did you get the money in the HSA back? I recently changed jobs because the original one wasn’t a good fit and they had an HSA account for employees. I just got my W2 from them and there’s money inside that’s supposed to be used for medical purposes only. I never touched the money, so it’s been sitting there.

    How would I contact the previous employer’s HR/admin and ask for the money?

    1. NoodleMara*

      The money will probably remain in the hsa account. Most employers don’t actually handle the hsa stuff, they contract out and your HSA is with another company. It’s probably hooked up to whatever website handled your health insurance. If you somehow got that money withdrawn, you’ll have to pay tax on it as income.

      1. Joanne*

        I didn’t withdraw the money, so I’m wondering what to do now about it. Do I contact the previous employer’s HR about it or the company that holds the HSA account?

        1. Sam Foster*

          HSA account holder. The HSA account is, over-simplified, like a savings account at a bank. You own it and it leaves with you when you leave a job.

          1. Joanne*

            If you’ve never used it but it’s there, do you just leave it there. I was thinking about closing it after I left my previous position. Can the HSA account be transferred over to my new position? I’m just really confused about what to do.

            1. Sam Foster*

              My understanding is that it can be transferred to another HSA account, like moving a savings account. You should call the HSA account holder and have them share the plan details with you. It’s probably a company like Vanguard, Fidelity, or one of the big firms like that.

    2. Enough*

      You should still have access to this as you did while employed. And are able to use this money in the future for medical needs.

    3. Database Geek*

      The money should still be in an account that you can still access (mine is) – do you have a card for the account? I don’t think you can actually get the money out to use for anything else – it can only be used for medical expenses until it’s gone. Haven’t you been using it for doctor’s visits and other medical expenses?

      1. Joanne*

        I switched jobs, so I don’t think I have access to it anymore. I don’t think there was a card mailed to us for the account, and I haven’t used it for any medical expenses.
        After I started working there, I signed up for it because it was mandatory and then never used it while I was there so it’s been sitting in the account.

        1. Kerr*

          You should be able to contact the bank directly. If not, contact HR at your old job and figure out how to get access. An HSA account is yours, is yours even if you leave, and you can probably transfer it to another bank of your choice. What you can’t do is just close it and remove the funds, since they’re untaxed money that’s reserved for medical expenses. You end up paying a big tax penalty for that.

          What you may not be able to do is contribute to it in the future; depends on what your new medical plan is like. (IANAL or an expert on this.) But you do get to keep the money in the HSA.

          1. Joanne*

            If the new job doesn’t have an HSA, does the old HSA go with you? The new job has a Flexible Spending Account Plan that works similarly to an HSA but according to the website I’m getting my benefits from “NOTE: Enrollment in the Insperity Health Care FSA will make an individual ineligible to contribute to a health savings account (HSA) during the same calendar year.”
            I’m just really confused about what to do now with the HSA.

  234. Luna123*

    So I had two interviews on Tuesday. Interview number one went . . . well, I guess? It’s for the same job that I used to have, but these people do way more work (volume and involvement-wise) than I used to and the interviewers just kept talking about how stressed they were and how much work there was without adding “we want to hire another person so that the workload is reduced” or something. Also, they said that the team was “like family” but also they’re “professional” but *also* “sometimes people say things that might offend other people.” Uh.

    Interview number two (second interview for this company) went pretty well. I met the people I’d be working with and I really like them. They mostly reiterated that the job has weird hours and they want someone who’s comfortable with numbers and that it will take a long time to learn everything. The more I hear about this job, the more excited I am because this all seems like stuff I can do or learn with a little training & I hoped I expressed that properly (although I think I kept saying “that’s exciting!” instead of “that’s interesting!”). I’ll hear back from them next week and see if they want to hire me. Fingers crossed!!!

    1. nep*

      First interview — one of them actually said ‘sometimes people say things that might offend people’ ? WTH?

      1. Luna123*

        I know! Right at the beginning of the interview! I should have asked what kind of offensive stuff they said. I had such high hopes for this company, too, because they’re a large, established business. But if they never call me back: bullet dodged

      2. KayEss*

        I once had an interview where I was just directly asked, “how’s your sense of humor?” I knew at the time that the question is generally a dogwhistle for “we say offensive things all the time and want to know if you’re cool with that” but I was thrown off by the office being 75% female… so I took the job. Nope, turned out they said wildly offensive things all the time.

        1. AeroEngineer*

          Yea mine isn’t as bad as that, but I got something along the lines of “working with only men and their humor” and I really should have taken that as a red flag (I was desperate and it would give me some skills I didn’t have, so I took it).

          Now I just get comments of “we have even toned it back since you are here”. While it isn’t as bad as it could be, I am sick of it, and it is bad enough.

    2. T3k*

      I’d pay attention to the “like family” comment and try to see how they treat each other. It could be nothing, but last time someone told me that, it meant coworkers and the boss would get into weekly yelling matches (but it was a small, dysfunctional, family-owned business anyways so maybe that had more to do with it).

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      That first interview sounds like a parade of red flags.

      One of the things I asked about in my recent interviews was the workload and how it was balanced/reviewed/etc. After being in a position where my workload tripled over the course of a year and I got no support, that kind of thing is very important to me. The job I actually accepted was open because they are expanding the department to redistribute the workload.

      Good luck on the second one!

  235. Interviews :(*

    Lately I have been wanting to start job searching, but the thought of going to an interview really makes me nervous. I have read many online interview guides, and I found that behavioral and emotional intelligence questions are likely to be asked.

    I have a difficult time formulating answers to behavior questions, such as “have you had a disagreement with your boss,” “how do you handle conflict with coworker,” etc. As I think about them, I found that I am lacking emotional intelligence myself. I have always done what my boss told me—likely all those things are legitimate tasks. I was never the one to win battles when my coworkers and I disagree with things, for I always ended up being the one who accommodates to everyone. I don’t have a much of a dealing-with-people skill and I also lacked the experience.
    I really wanted to be ready for job interviews and I wanted to be able to quit my current job. I don’t like my current job because I don’t fit in with everyone and it lacked organized guidelines on how to do job tasks. I wanted to work in a new job that is more organized.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I don’t think these things indicate a lack of emotional intelligence. To me, it reads that you are very low conflict and willing to go with the flow. That is not necessarily a bad thing from an employer’s perspective.

      Do you have a friend or family member who you could do mock interviews with to get comfortable?

      1. Interviews :(*

        I don’t usually talk about work/job search stuff with my family and my friends are all long-distance, so I am mostly on my own.

        If an interviewer ask one of those “have you been in a situation when you disagree with…” then I would mostly say “I haven’t, but if I do I would…” I am not sure if it will make me stand out against some candidates who does have experience the “what if situation” and have dealt with conflict first hand.

        1. A Nickname for AAM*

          The one thing I think you should be careful of is that your “go with the flow, do as you’re told” personality is likely to attract the attention of problem supervisors/problem cultures, who like a yes man who doesn’t ask too many questions. If you have a job that seldom handles any abstract moral, ethical, or legal issues, or a job that’s very process-driven, this is fine. But if you do, being a follower can get you in a ton of trouble, if the person leading you is behaving in a way that’s illegal, unethical, violates safety regulations, or is discriminatory.

  236. Poop?*

    I posted a few weeks ago about a cover letter- followed the sage advice and now have been called for an interview!

    When I spoke on the phone this morning to the person who was arranging the interview, he asked me if I wanted a confirmation email with the details and I said that would be great. Haven’t received email yet- by when should I reach out to him if I haven’t gotten the confirmation? Interview is not for three weeks, so I can see why sending that email wouldn’t be his biggest priority.

    Also, I applied for and interviewed for the position a few years ago. It wasn’t filled, for reasons that I know and can understand. Should I mention during the interview that I previously applied a few years ago? It was the same guy arranging the interview as last time.

    1. Triplestep*

      Three weeks out is a long time to schedule an interview – I would wait two weeks before mentioning that you haven’t received the confirmation e-mail, unless there is some real reason you need it earlier. (Making travel or child care arrangements come to mind.)

      I would not mention that you’d applied for the job previously unless you got to the interview stage that time. I am applying at a company that previously considered me for a similar role, and I had gotten to the interview stage; they then dragged on with the decision and I had to accept another offer. It turned out that they didn’t fill the role, so it now seems worth mentioning that I’d once been under consideration but it didn’t pan out. (It’s a way of reminding them they had once considered me a strong candidate, and I had to withdraw due to their lack of action on the role. I would just never say it that way!) If had simply just applied but not progressed as a candidate, I don’t think any of this would be worth mentioning.

  237. amanda_cake*

    I’m late to the party but I have two school librarian job interviews next week.

    Wish me luck! If you are a librarian and have any specific tips, I’d appreciate it.

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      I haven’t had a librarian interview in over 10 years, but I suspect they might give you a scenario or two to find out more about your decision making when your boss isn’t around to consult with. If I were you, I’d think about some common occurrences (child left alone at closing? parent upset a child could not renew a book b/c it’s on hold for someone else? disruptive child and parent is absent? parent wants you to consider banning a specific title from the library?), and figure out how you’d handle those if you were on your own, using your past experiences and logic. Best of luck!

  238. Amiel*

    I work in an open office plan with several colleagues who do intersecting work (meaning I work on projects related to their work but have a very set of responsibilities and report to a different boss). I am very concerned about the morale: lots of gossip, hostility towards higher ups etc, plus everyone seems to have very big voices so the complaints reverberate through the space. There are two new hires who are definitely impacted by this (“Fergus” who is training them is encouraging them to be negative). One of them has been there for under two months now repeatedly (and loudly) announces, “I hate this job!” and talks about quitting. I’m worried that she is so new to her career (first job out of college) and she needs to know this attitude is not professional and could harm her down the line. I tried talking to her yesterday to encourage her (she has just finished training so it’s not going to be second nature yet and she is replacing someone who had an abnormally large workload and was in that role for 10 plus years, so feeling overwhelmed is perfectly valid) but she was very dismissive and bordered on rude.
    Even though I love my role and the people I work for directly are great, I am getting burnt out by the churlishness and negativity of the environment. I annoyed Fergus with a request made on the behalf of my boss and he griped about me for a week. Loudly. I chose to ignore him and have continued to be pleasant to him and all my neighbors. Changing my desk is not an option. Any advice would be helpful!

    1. A Nickname for AAM*

      Honestly, it sounds like your work environment is more toxic than you realize. No amount of coaching is going to help the new hires get numb to it faster. They should leave.

    2. Triplestep*

      I agree that your work environment may be more toxic than you realize, but that is not to say that you shouldn’t love your job or your higher-ups so much – just that there might be some validity to what others are saying. But negativity does tend to feed on itself, and it sounds like that is what is happening with the others in your space.

      Are headphones an option?

      Now that you’ve done spoken to your junior co-worker, you just need to ignore any future unprofessional behavior, knowing that you did the right thing by her and she is not availing herself of your advice. I have grown children – they are not perfect, but they would keep thoughts about quitting and hating their jobs to themselves. So this is more about her as a person than it is about her age. You tried!

      1. Amiel*

        I’m very lucky to be so far removed from the drama that my colleagues are facing (the department was recently restructured, so there is some fallout from that). Headphones have been very helpful for blocking out the noise. For now, I’ll just continue to ignore Fergus and co and stay focused on my projects. Thanks for your advice.

  239. Nieve*

    The office admin at my work is a control freak and its making work harder for everyone. She’s a little bit on the older side, and pretty much everyone people in the office that she does admin work for are younger to much younger than her. She really doesnt seem to want to do ‘normal’ admin stuff… When we put through orders for certain office items, she’d not just order them as we want, but rather actually come into our primary worksite (she is in a different building managing the other departments needs as well) and grill us about why we need a certain item, what its going to be used for, and whether we have approval from our manager to order the item. It is honestly getting ridiculous, and as she puts off the ordering process just so that she can come ‘assess’ the needs, it wastes valuable time between putting the order through and actually getting the items to us. I think its a power thing, she just does not like doing work for younger people and she wants to feel like she’s more in control, and give more unnecessary responsibilities to herself, and it is hurting others’ work. I am relatively new to the workplace (<1yr) and I am at a loss…

    1. Triplestep*

      It sounds to me like someone higher up has tasked her with saving money on these office items, and she wants to show that she is taking this on with a lot of gusto. You can’t really blame her – when anyone is given a project that is a bit outside their role, they want to prove that they can step beyond their normal tasks and take on more responsibility.

      I am not sure this has to do with age at all, but that she’s been given some responsibility that seems (to her) more important than what she normally does. If you talk about this with others in your workplace, I would urge you not to mention age, and your hypothesis that she doesn’t want to do work for people younger than herself. At your age and workplace experience, that will probably reflect poorly on you.

      A similar thing happened in my workplace. Someone who had responsibilities that supported my work suddenly got some new responsibilities that did NOT support my work, and she approached those with much more enthusiasm than the work I needed. If important things are being delayed because someone is holding them up, eventually they work themselves out without a lot of finger-pointing. If we really are just talking about office supplies here (which a lot of companies struggle with cost-wise, by the way) I’d really think about how big a deal you want to make about this.

    2. soupmonger*

      Please don’t assume it’s an age thing or a power thing. Can you ask her directly why she assesses needs first before ordering? Perhaps she’s been asked to do this to watch costs.

      1. Kerr*

        Can you ask her why she’s doing this, and if you need to follow a specific process to place orders? Or could your manager ask? Are these basic office supplies like Post-Its and file organizers, or is this actual equipment? Because if it’s the latter, if management is trying to cut costs but didn’t tell anybodyd else, I could see this happening. She could have been asked to save money, or she could be doing it of her own volition and if management knew, they’d tell her to knock it off. (Likely the latter, but it’s worth asking.)

        There should be a streamlined process for placing orders. If it turns out that your manager needs to approve the orders, this is an easy fix: copy your manager on the email, they can approve via email, and get your order without delay.

        FWIW, as a (young) admin, dealing with an office that a) wanted to save money, and b) had no specific guidelines for saving money, was…difficult. I’m more hesitant to spend money and requiring a reason and management approval when there are no clear guidelines.

  240. Joanne*

    I didn’t withdraw the money, so I’m wondering what to do now about it. Do I contact the previous employer’s HR about it or the company that holds the HSA account?

    1. Chaordic One*

      My understanding is that you can’t withdraw the money after it has been withheld. However, if you spend any money on any health related matters you can file a claim to be reimbursed for that expense from your HSA, even if you no longer work at the employer where you set up the HSA.

      When my sister quit a job, she went to a drug store and bought a bunch of stuff like ice packs and braces and a humidifier and then sent the receipt to her former employer and they reimbursed her from her HSA.

      1. De Minimis*

        It will probably be the company that administers the HSA account. Since the money is usually pre-tax, you can’t get it refunded, but you are able to use whatever money remains in the HSA account for qualified expenses for the rest of the year [and usually you have until a certain time the following year to report any prior year expenses–and often a certain amount can be carried over to the following year.] Or at least that’s how our plan works.

  241. CA*

    Is anybody else saddled with the burden of an insanely attractive coworker? I’m a professional and it is all business of course, but my goodness what a distraction!

    1. Alianora*

      Yeah. It’s easier for me when it’s just a physical attraction because you get used to it after a while, but when I’m attracted to someone’s personality, it can be a lot more distracting.

    2. Annie Moose*

      Ha, on my first day at my current job, I rolled up only to discover my project lead was one of the most attractive guys I’ve ever met. So I’ve got the usual first-day jitters, plus my anti-social meeting-people-is-hard thing, PLUS one of the strongest reactions I’ve ever had to meeting an attractive dude. It was… interesting. (and he’s got a great personality too!! Luckily he’s married with kids, so obviously off limits)

      I did the same as you, just tried to focus very hard on being professional and treating him the same as everybody else, and it really did fade over time. Now I can just appreciate him as a nice-looking and nice-acting guy without wanting to stare. ;)

  242. Stick*

    I’ve been working at my current org for almost three years. It’s a very big company, but I’ve managed to find a happy niche. I actually got promoted several months ago, and my current role has pushed me to own my career development more. Overall, it’s a great gig, but there’s one nagging issue.

    When I first started, I had a cube neighbor (John), and we sat next to each other for a year and a half. John and I became friends. We had a slew of inside jokes; bounced process questions off each other; and even hosted team meetings together for six months. There were even a few times we hung out outside of work. Sometimes if other people on our floor wandered in our area (especially near me), John would glare at them. That bit surprised me and contributed to being outright blindsided a couple months ago. John and I kept in touch after my promotion, but I felt like people were watching me if I visited him at his desk (especially a woman nearby who’s always been aloof toward me). When I asked him about it and if I’d done something wrong, he claimed up and stated he needed space. We haven’t spoken since.

    I admit that I’m still mourning the loss of this friendship, and during the grieving process I’ve looked at a number of factors that likely contributed to this breakdown. I’m a female that’s almost a decade older than him, and while we had some big things in common there were enough big differences that would need a lot of time and communication to grapple, something I’m not sure John is up for handling even if he’s in his mid 20s. It might be tough for him to juggle that and some disciplinary issues he’d briefly mentioned in his last email to me. Since I don’t expect him to come around, I make sure to avoid him (as we work in the same building). My question is this. What factors would make a work friend suddenly turn cold toward someone who is actively trying to find a way to make things better and take responsibility for any wrongdoing?

    1. Canadian Teapots*

      My thinking is that John doesn’t handle change well and is maybe a bit possessive over friendships/acquaintanceships, judging from the glarey thing. Also the clamming-up and refusing to meaningfully communicate about your changed dynamic sends up another red flag.

      You being promoted, even without you moving desks, would’ve changed the dynamic between you two anyhow, since even if John didn’t become your direct report, you still now hold a kind of authority over him.

      You say you were “outright blindsided”, but you don’t explain what that was. Did you get written up? Or John? You do mention he has disciplinary issues. You being higher-up than him probably (through no fault of your own, I emphasize!) means he doesn’t feel you have his back anymore when it comes to trying to get a grasp on them.

      Also, it’s not clear what the connection is between people watching you and you asking John about doing something wrong.

      Absent clarifying info from you I’d say your promotion (again this is NOT your fault, since you warranted that promotion obvi) was the catalyst for the breakdown of the work-friendship, since it points to underlying issues that John needs to resolve for himself.

      1. Stick*

        I feel I should mention that this promotion is diagonal. It’s lateral in that I don’t actually have a leadership title, but I do have increased responsibilities and work on/with teams that have more complex tasks. It merited a move across the floor; increased likelihood of training people; and reconciling the concerns of of very different groups (customers/field personnel and IT support/development for one of our company’s website). On that note, I’ll elaborate on a few points.

        “You say you were “outright blindsided”, but you don’t explain what that was. Did you get written up? Or John?”

        It sounds like John got at least a verbal warning about attendance issues (namely not returning from breaks on time). What blindsided me was the fact that he decided we couldn’t talk anymore after seeing him be so involved in our friendship. (He actively consoled me while I sat and fretted over my parents potentially losing their house due to hurricane Irma.) On top of that, this decision came a few months after my promotion, so we’d been chatting and hanging out for a bit before things went sideways. He even chipped in half when I brought in a cheese platter for my team to celebrate. So to see him suddenly shut me out was a big surprise.

        “Also, it’s not clear what the connection is between people watching you and you asking John about doing something wrong.”

        Here’s the thing. If my going over to John was interfering with his productivity, then I would have liked to hear about it directly from him so I could make adjustments. The fact that other people stared made me feel unwelcome by everyone around John but not John himself. The women who looked over the most has since been spending more time with him since he and I stopped talking (and technically she’s in a higher role than he is). I felt like she was monitoring us for personal reasons, and I figured John would have some insight. Instead, he claims to need space when I ask him about the fact that all eyes were on me when I’d venture over to his desk.

        1. SCAnonibrarian*

          I see three main likely options:
          1) John got weirded out when you got promoted, and he’s having trouble processing his feelings and so he’s pulling back on the friendship (poorly) to give himself space to get used to the change in circumstances.

          2) John is romantically linked with the lady in the nearby cube, and she doesn’t like him talking to you, especially now that you’re in a more powerful position.

          3) The lady in the nearby cube is the office busybody and told John that ‘everybody’ thinks you two are having an affair. John, either feeling like that is a justifiable concern, or out of an abundance of concern for your two reputations, is cutting off the friendship to address potential rumors.

          Unfortunately, regardless of which is true, there’s not much of anything you can do besides abide by John’s very clear current preferences to resume very professional boundaries between you two.

          1. Stick*

            Thing is, I’ve been working to avoid John in the building ever since then. I also had him blocked on work IM, and I’ve blocked both him and the woman who inspired my inquiry on Facebook. (I’ve also locked down my profile quite a bit more in general.)

            Point 3 almost amuses me, because back in November John told me that there were rumors of he and myself being romantically involved. When I’ve talked to people outside the office (such as my counselor and former colleagues who worked with both of us), there’s been a general consensus that John’s concern about the rumors was justifiable from his perspective. I had suspicions of it, but I opted to leave it alone as long as I could. When things started getting weird, I aimed to be as neutral in my wording as I could.

  243. Coworker, not supervisor*

    So my former supervisor asked me to be a reference, as they are starting to job hunt. I agreed, as I enjoyed working with them. I was surprised though, as it seems more common to ask a manager rather than a subordinate. Thoughts?

  244. TheRover*

    If you get a job offer based on something you did 10 years ago, should you use your manager of 10 years ago as a reference?

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