open thread – April 27-28, 2018

by Alison Green on April 27, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. DCG*

    So, I got fired from my last position of one year and am finding it difficult to fill in that section on my resume with accomplishments. The firing was fair, they treated me well, and it really just wasn’t the right fit. Would using the verbiage “directed research into X, Y, and Z” imply that one supervised others, or independently pursued a project that the higher-ups later agreed was good to do? Because neither of those things are quite accurate in my case. I “conducted research” with lots of independence, but it wasn’t as though my bosses weren’t involved in its direction. But “conducted research” sounds like a description of job duty rather than an accomplishment.

    1. ZSD*

      How about using “Research” as a verb?
      “Researched history of teapot design, accessing x, y, and z databases and reviewing 50+ journal articles.”
      “Summarized findings in a variety of formats for different audiences: wrote in-depth 30-page report for experts; highlighted important findings in one-page executive summary for decision-makers; designed graphic poster for use with clients in teapot clinics.”

    2. fposte*

      Sorry about the firing. What’s the field, and what do you mean by “research”? Could “initiated” get you there?

      1. DCG*

        Thanks fposte. “Initiated” would be inaccurate, I think, because my position was “researcher,” doing specifically economic research. I am not looking for another economic research position, but a research- and writing-based position in a nonprofit.

        1. fposte*

          I think it could still be useful if you’re differentiating areas you were tasked with researching from areas you yourself initiated (see what I did there :-)?) research into. You could also go with “originate” or “develop.”

    3. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      Directed does sound like leading.

      For the research bit what was the outcome? If you researched lama shears for example you could say “collaborated with staff and management to research new shearing techniques which lead to 30% increased in efficiency and 20% fewer nicks. “

    4. DQ*

      Try using “research” as the verb? “Researched solutions for X which resulted in project proposal Y that turned into project Z.”

        1. LibbyG*

          Economics researcher? Maybe something like “produced rigorous quantitative analyses to support decision-making in X, Y, X.” Or conducted X-type of analyses to inform [something]? Something that highlights your skill in communicating research findings to a varied audience?

    5. lulu*

      Just put “researched”. “Directed research” is not more accomplishment focused, it would just be inaccurate in your case. You shouldn’t expect to have stellar accomplishments for a job you were fired from, so I think it’s ok to be more descriptive. Of course if there were some good results that came from your research, do include it.

    6. Jemima Bond*

      You could make it sound like more of an achievement by saying “completed research into” or even “completed research project(s) relating to/analysing costings of outsourcing llama cuddling” etc.

    9. Ex-Academic, Future Accountant*

      I may be coming at this too much via the grad school angle, since that’s my experience, but I’d say something like “Conceived, designed, and carried out research projects on X with methodology Y.” That makes it clear that the research questions were mine, rather than coming down from on high.

    10. Ben There*

      Sorry you lost your job. It sounds like ‘directed’ is flat out inaccurate. I like ‘researched’ X,Y and Z, but you need to add the achievement part. To me that would be reflected in either the scope of the research project (economic impact of XYandZ over 15 years across 24 states) or the outcome of the research. Since you were only on the project for a year, there may not be a lot of measurable outcomes of the research yet, but could it be “as part of a 5 year study of ABC for the XYZ industry”? If as part of your work you established methodology, or documented anything (protocol/results/etc), or maintained a database those would be part of what you achieved. How you conducted the research could also be relevant: did you conduct in-person interviews? Were you accessing multiple historical records or databases? Collecting historical economic indicators? Lastly, did you write about/publish/present or otherwise document your work? Best of luck to you on your search!

  2. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    So I had my second interview Monday afternoon. Met with the hiring manager….and FOUR other people. It was super intimidating to walk into a room and have five people sitting across from you asking you questions. (Honestly, you should warn a person.)

    Luckily, I’m good on my feet so it didn’t rattle me. I remember having ‘Holy shii-” pass through my head before immediately cutting myself off and settling down. Sitting on the chair, and setting my purse on the ground is my cue for my brain to switch into interview mode.

    I think I did alright. I answered their questions as well as I was able. At one point they were more interested in what my company does (to the point they apologized and acknowledged they were fascinated). There was some smiling and laughing, so if nothing else our personalities meshed. The hiring manager told me I’d hear back from HR really quickly…..so I either totally whiffed it or did really well.

    Onto the Hurry-Up-And-Wait Game!

      1. geographic*

        Good luck! I had a four-person committee interview a few weeks ago. The person who scheduled it did not give me a heads up that I was going to be meeting with a committee. It was fine and it sounds like you probably did fine, too. Glad you felt able to handle your surprise committee interview.

        1. Kathleen_A*

          We always end up doing these big ol’ group interviews here. Personally, I don’t think it’s a great idea, but I’m not in charge of the process. I do think people are told ahead of time that there will be approximately X people there (it’s usually 4-5, but we’ve had as many as 8, for cryin’ out loud!), but I still think it’s needlessly intimidating and truly not necessary.

    3. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

      That happened to me at one of my previous jobs. I was nervous enough because it was my first time interviewing out of state. The hiring manager met me at the airport and drove me to the office, then led me to a conference room. We chatted the whole way and he never indicated that I’d be doing a panel interview. When he opened the door to the conference room their were 11 people (!!!) sitting at a huge table and I nearly wet myself. I must have pulled it off as they offered me the job a few days later, but holy crap do I wish I’d had a heads up.

      Good for you for doing so well under pressure, and I hope you get good news soon!

      2. dillydally*

        Ha. If I walk into a conference to find 11 people waiting for me, there’d better be a cake !

    6. Curious Cat*

      I love hearing these updates from you each week! Good luck on it all, I’m sure you killed it.

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        Awwww – thank you! I’m actually NOT talking about my job search with my friends and family much. Takes the pressure off and I interview much better without that mental weight hanging around. So this is where I get it all out.

    8. Emily S.*

      Go you! Must be a relief. Sending good vibes.

      Good luck – I’m sure you know this, but staying occupied with other things can help keep the anxiety/worries at bay. Exercise, practice your hobbies, and try to stay positive, no matter what may happen.

      (I realize that’s so much easier said than done, but still, this is the advice I’d tell myself to help stay calm and cool about it.)

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        Oh, I know. Anxiety and I are close, personal buddies.

        I did schedule an eyelash lift and tint for myself tomorrow. Figured if I did well, it’s a celebration. If I screwed up, it was something to look forward to! It’s also a way to redirect my anxiousness to something positive.

    10. Liz*

      When I was about 25, I interviewed for a part time receptionist position at a doctor’s office. We were living in England at the time. When the hiring manger opened the door to the interview room, it was the main conference room and all 10 doctors were seated around the table – all men, all in their fancy white doctor coats. They pretty quickly started grilling me on the US and medical practice in the US. I think they were just really, really curious about how we did things in the US. I felt like a study subject. I did not get the job. They tried to dissuade me with the low pay but I was relentlessly perky about it (I just wanted to get out of the house) and in the end they had to tell me I was too upper class for the position and all the “girls” would have to defer to me but I would be the lowest position and I should defer to them but it would cause chaos in the office.

  3. ZSD*

    Are there job boards or list serves it’s particularly good to visit/subscribe to for mid-level advocacy jobs? (I’m looking in the DC area, if it matters.) I’m on the Jobs that are Left listserv, but that seems to be mostly entry-level. Thanks!

    2. Amy Gardner*

      Wellstone Action, District Daybook, Democratic Gain. Emily’s List and Feminist Majority Foundation both have regularly emailed job banks. Senate employment bulletin and House emailed employment bulletin.

      1. Fishsticks*

        This one does cost money though! It’s about 5 bucks a month I think, but has so many jobs posted in the DC area it was worth it.

        1. Denise*

          It costs a bit but if you’re looking in DC, it’s the best resource. That, and Tom Manatose jobs.

    4. rldk*

      If you’re a woman, the Women’s Information Network (WIN) has both great networking and a great jobs roundup, but it does have a membership fee

      1. Grayson*

        I just joined the Women In International Security group, which I hope will be helpful but also has a fee. *sigh*

        1. ArtsNerd*

          CNAS has a job opening for a Program Director and Senior Fellow for its Defense program, FYI. Link in my username. (A friend just shared it on FB. I have no insider knowledge.)

      3. Legal Beagle*

        Yes, WIN is awesome! I would add that it’s specifically for pro-choice Dem women, and the jobs posted are in line with that.

    6. TheAssistant*

      In addition to everything mentioned above, I like DC Public Affairs + Communications Jobs blog. It casts a much wider net than its name implies, and often does thematic roundups (like Advocacy Day, or whatever). I found two of three of my DC-based jobs there.

      Link in a reply.

    7. Legal Beagle*

      I’m not sure if they have a job board, but Women in Government Relations is a good org to get involved with for networking and professional development. (Fair warning: it’s expensive. Targeted to for-profit lobbyists.)

      1. Legal Beagle*

        If you’re a woman, obviously. I realized I was assuming because someone else mentioned WIN!

    8. CG*

      Others already covered most of what I would say, but I would add that if there’s a specific topic that you focus on, there’s probably a professional group or two in DC that has good networking, events, and maybe a jobs list. My field is two fields smashed together (llama designed teapots), and DC has a DC llama designers group, a young professionals in llama design group, a whole bunch of DC teapots groups, a Women in llama design group, an informal lunch group on teapots, a Women in teapots happy hour group, and a teapots network. They all have events, Facebook pages, listservs, and job postings. (I’m lucky!)

      1. ArtsNerd*

        I’m part of so many professional FB groups and they are so helpful. I’m not going to happy hours but I AM mindlessly scrolling through FB so I might as well get some professional development out of it.

    9. Joanne*

      Indeed and Monster might be good places to look. Although they do more entry level positions, you might be able to find some mid-level positions as well.
      Also, Washington Post Jobs and LinkedIn are good places to start looking as well.

  4. remote job hopeful*

    For remote positions, does the employer usually provide equipment (computer, printer, etc) or cover the cost, or is it the employee’s responsibility? I’m in the running for a 100% remote position but do not have an adequate home computer set-up. The job seems like a great fit and I’m very excited about it, but with my budget there is no way I would be able to purchase a new computer myself at this time. The job listing did not say that having a computer was a requirement, but I know that doesn’t confirm anything. I plan to ask about this in the offer stage when discussing salary and such, would that be the appropriate time? And if they do expect me to have my own, is this something I could push back on?

    1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      The employer supplied my phone because it had to work with their phone system.
      I supplied my computer but I also suddenly got a $2,000 “bonus”.
      I supplied my internet connection (which I already had).

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      My company hires people for fully remote positions and does provide computers. I’m not sure that a printer comes with the job, just because by and large our work does not really require any actual paperwork, but laptops, any peripherals, docks, that stuff, yes.

    3. NewWorkingMama*

      It might be company dependent but for my current company (and others I’ve worked for) the company would pay for office items you needed regardless of if you were in the office or not. This is for a full time and remote position (as opposed to part-time). It’s usually spelled out in the expense section or the employee handbook, but I know they will basically supply whatever they’d give you in the office and sometimes will cover part of the utilities for internet.

    4. Soz*

      I would wait till the offer – it’s sort of a benefit (even if it’s a one which in office employees get automatically)

    5. SpaceNovice*

      I could see it depending on the type of company. Companies that are at all worried about security or expect you to be able to access company resources will give you a computer. They don’t want random computers VPNing into their network, and a lot of resources are restricted to only working on VPN (timecards, benefits, intranet sites). It basically depends on if they have a good basic IT security policy or not. (Also money, sometimes.)

    6. DataQueen*

      I got a laptop, printer, blank CDs, and filing cabinet (lol – never used the last 2) sent to me for my remote job. They never even asked what i needed – just “where should we send your stuff.” Most (i think) professional companies would prefer to give you a company issued laptop, or at least, wouldn’t expect BYO. My organization hates BYO because it’s so much easier to manage corporate devices.

      Cellphones are tricky – I had a corporate issued cell phone separate from my personal one, and some companies subsidize your existing bill. But my current company says “hey, you’d have that phone anyway, everyone has unlimited minutes now, and if you insist on not using your cell, you can use skype for business for everything,” which i think is very reasonable and totally fine. They do have a 18% verizon discount they offer us, and i have that applied to my bill.

      I wouldn’t worry too much about the details at the offer phase – just say “what will be provided for the home-office set-up?” and then don’t push back then – if you have to buy a computer, use it to squeeze an extra grand out of your salary negotiations, or a little bit more for relocation, sign-on bonus etc.

      1. DataQueen*

        And to clarify – i think using it as a negotiation factor is much better than them saying “you’ll need your own computer” and you saying “I’ll need a stipend for that.” It’s like if they said “the office is business attire” and you say “I’ll need an Ann Taylor gift card then, as i don’t have business clothes”. I’m probably overthinking it though, and it might be totally reasonable, but i think you’d actually get more if you fold it into overall negotiations.

      2. DD*

        OMG, if I got sent a filing cabinet, I’d be in major trouble! I have absolutely no place to put one in my tiny apartment, lol.

    7. Amy Farrah Fowler*

      The company should specify what they provide and what you’re expected to provide. If they don’t proactively, definitely ask about it at the offer stage. If they have multiple interviews, you can ask about it in one of the interviews too.

      I’m 100% remote and they provide computer (laptop and will send you an extra monitor if you want a 2-screen set-up), mouse, desk phone, and headset (I do a lot of phone work).
      I provide my own internet connection.
      They do not provide a printer, but I’m also not required to keep paper records of anything, and I rarely print anything, so it’s not a big deal.

      Hope that helps!

    8. Q*

      It depends on the company I think. When OldJob wanted me to be set up to work remotely, it was expected that I would download their connection requirements onto my personal computer or laptop. But at my sister’s job the company provided everything they would need to work remotely.

    9. The Person from the Resume*

      You need to ask because each company may have different policies. You can choose to wait until you get the offer if you wish.

      My organization provides a laptop, docking station, and keyboard. That’s it. It allows them to completely control the software, configuration and security. I need to provide everything else including internet, phone line, phone, and monitor (in addition to the laptop screen).

      My friend has company provided internet but she can only use it for work so she also has to pay for a separate personal internet.

    10. KR*

      I work in a remote office but as far as my company goes I’m a remote worker. They supplied me with my laptop, dock, peripherals, printer, monitors, and a tablet. I also have an option for a company cell phone or a reimbursement for using my phone.

    11. Nita*

      Not in my office, but IT does provide tech support for the laptop you have. They do reimburse for cell phone use, whether for remote positions or for people who just need to be out of the office at meetings/field visits a lot.

    12. nep*

      I’ve seen ads that lay that out — what the employer will furnish and what the employee must provide. In my view, asking during the offer stage would be good; that’s the time you’re finding out whether the conditions suit you and meet your needs.

    13. It’s All Good*

      I’ve worked about 5-6 remote positions, both W-2 and 1099 and they have provided everything you would use if you were in house, including the laptop. One W-2 sent me a desk! (That I had to put together!) I hope it works out for you.

    14. De Minimis*

      My employer provides everything, and covers at least a portion of home internet/cell phone expenses each month.

    15. rubyrose*

      At my company, they provide the laptop, sometimes a docking station, and upon request one external monitor.

      A company with any type of security will insist on the computer having their own software installed the meets their standards and locks down any functions they don’t want you doing (aka the computer image). They are only going to install that on their machine.

      The printer is on me, but it is not really needed for what I do.

    16. Red Reader*

      We are provided a computer, two monitors, keyboard, mouse and headset. We are actually not permitted to connect a printer to our computers if not onsite (paperless office plus patient data equals don’t print stuff at home).

    17. Scott*

      It’s weird to me to not receive something company issued, mostly because the cost of hardware is so little in comparison with other costs, but I could see some start up or smaller companies doing that. Consider that if they don’t cover it, they should at least at least pay for the software licenses, such as MS Office Suite, and any special software required. Also, there’s certain rules, and it’s state/province/country dependant, but you can usually claim a tax credit for it as office supplies.

      1. Foxy Hedgehog*

        Security, too. The company is going to want their own firewall / security / monitoring software installed on the laptop, plus as you mention any specific software that they use. If they don’t provide a laptop to full-time remote employees, I would worry about many other things about the company.

        All (4) of my remote jobs provided computer and printer/scanner/fax (back when faxing was a thing). Some were generous and provided a phone and a budget for setting up the office, others provided none of those things.

    18. nonymous*

      Husband and I both work for large orgs which expect remote work and they basic computer supplies (monitors/dock/laptop/keyboards, etc). If I want anything more than basic, I have to supply it but husband’s company lets them order additional peripherals, within reason, with reimbursement. In my peer group the only people who bring their own laptops to do work are those paid on contract.

    19. Ed*

      My company will provide your laptop, a monitor screen and everything else is your responsibility.

    20. Gatomon*

      It depends on the company and probably the nature of the work. I know of companies that provide a VOIP desk phone, enterprise-grade router (to manage the VPN back to the home office), laptop, etc. I’ve even run across companies that ordered separate home internet service in their own name for the address so the employee never had a bill. Some just expect you to use your own gear and meet certain security requirements.

      My personal feeling is that if you’re a W-2 employee and your company cares about security, they should provide and manage the equipment for you. But that isn’t always the case, for many reasons.

      I think offer stage would be the perfect time to discuss what they will provide and what you’ll need to provide. If they reimburse you for expenses find out how much they actually pay and what documentation, if any, you need.

    21. Searching*

      My company provided everything and also paid for the internet connection. I could have had a completely empty room, and they would have supplied everything except the decorations. I only bought my own desk because the ones they supplied were so ugly. After I was laid off, I had to send back the computer, phones, printer, etc. (at their expense), but was allowed to keep the ginormous filing cabinets because it would have cost them more to send some very strong people to haul them away than it did to let me keep them.

    22. Hamburke*

      It will depend on your employer and type of employment (employee or subcontractor) that is set up. I would not expect it for a 1099 subcontracted job as providing equipment might invalidate that setup (there are rules that guide what is and what isn’t 1099 reguardless of what the employer says) but I would expect it for a full employee (W2) but check with them.

    23. Wintermute*

      In my experience employer provides a laptop, because they want a computer that is only a work computer, they want remote admin rights, they want to install web monitoring and their antivirus, they want it under the auspices of their I.T. department, they want it to be running their standard ghost image with no unauthorized software installs, etc.

      I’m sure some places will try to cheap out and have employees use their own computers but for a great number of reasons that’s a terrible, terrible idea and I would strongly question the professionalism of any company that does it, on both sides: Either they feel they have the right to demand you turn over personal property to their full control and monitoring, or they are allowing untrusted and unsecured computers onto their network.

    24. Sam Foster*

      The company you work for should have a clearly documented policy that covers equipment, data protection, and other expectations. If they don’t, be very careful about what you’ll end up holding the bag on.

  5. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

    Anyone else find themselves as “unofficial leaders”?

    I do and I’m tired of it. I’d like to know why it keeps happening so any tips are much appreciated! If you have been in this role yourself or groomed a direct report for leadership I would like to know more about what led to that decision and/or how you handled it.

    Examples of being an “Unofficial leader” I am involved in hiring, budgeting, layoff, and compensation decisions. I am punished if I become to friendly with any of my coworkers. Expected to be a change champion. Expected to monitor staffs responses to new initiatives. But I get no benefits of management (e.g. pay, benefits, flexibility, etc.). I thought I was being “groomed” for leadership but many roles have come and gone in my current department that were given to others with 0 leadership experience because they have 1 hard skill I don’t have and never will (think banking having a teller background and I’m someone who came in as a senior analyst).

    1. fposte*

      I think that unofficial team lead isn’t an uncommon thing, but you also don’t have to do it–you can suggest other people who’d be better, or note that you won’t be able to get to the thing in time with your other tasks. Overall, though, it sounds like you might have hit a ceiling in that workplace, and it might be time to look elsewhere if you want to move up.

      1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        Ugh so this is common? It’s happened to me at every org I have ever worked at. I have tried backing out of it but usually I get “but you are so good!” blah blah blah.

        1. Bea W*

          Oh gawd! Same! I tried backing down a bit once after a couple of broken promises over a promotion I was supposed to get after taking on all these extra responsibilities, and my boss just used that against me. I seem damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

          1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

            Aww. You are one of the commenters I always look to for sage advice. Sorry to hear you are struggling too.

        2. The Cosmic Avenger*

          I would say “Well, we haven’t talked about any title or salary changes to go along with the increased responsibility. Can we meet now to talk about that?” Put it on them to come out and say that they want you to do all this extra, managerial work, but for no additional pay or authority. Then it’ll seem perfectly reasonable to turn it down!

        3. paul*

          I think I’ve seen it literally every place I’ve worked. I’ve *been* it here, although I wasn’t particularly good at it (in fact, I kind of sucked).

          Have you pointed out that you’re essentially acting as a manager-in-training and asking directly for a change in title or duties or anything? Hell even getting an official change in duties–even without compensation (though $$ would be ideal) could give you something for a resume’ if you’re interested in moving to management elsewhere. And if you keep getting pushed into that role and not given any of the pros of it, I’d be looking.

    2. Soz*

      I get you – the thing is to either a) OOutright push for a promotion – don’t wait for the next one to come along, make it clear to your manager leadership is your goal.

      Or b) they are using you and may never promote you. Use all that experiance to make your CV really shine! I’m sure someone else will snap you up!

      The big thing is that it’s I. Your power – i’ve Been passed over a few times. That is when I know it’s time to move on

      1. Lil Fidget*

        I would set an internal goal, like don’t be team lead for more than six months (one year?) without associated raise and promotion. You could also make this explicit to them in a nice way. If you don’t see it materialize within that time frame, plan to leverage your new leadership potential at a different org

    3. SpaceNovice*

      See Alison’s latest podcast and see if you just naturally do that sort of conflict resolution and problem solving. If you get results because others don’t, I can see you getting stuff piled on. The process stuff I ended up taking control of was because I simply… worked with people while others complained.

      If that’s why it’s happening, then it means you have a skill that needs to be fostered in others.

    4. Trout 'Waver*

      Been there, done that. I only reason I got the manager title was because I went behind my boss’s back to his boss to point out that I was a manager by the legal definition. I got the title, but no raise or more power. It really didn’t change a single thing, other than formally clicking the “approve PTO use” button rather than telling my boss to click the button.

      The legal definition of a manager is independent of title. From your description of what you do, it sounds like you might be a manager already. If you point that out, you might get the title.

      1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        Apart from exempt vs non exempt I didn’t think legality really mattered. Like you said legal “managerial duties” which is one of the tests for exempt is legally defined but as far as me getting the benefits of management at my job (e.g. more PTO, greater flexibility, higher pay, etc.) I don’t see making this argument helping much.

        1. Antilles*

          Agreed. Remember that while there’s a legal definition required for ‘manager’ title, there’s nothing whatsoever that says they need to give you the pay/perks/status/etc that normally accompanies such a role. And frankly, pulling out the Department of Labor Code to get a title change has a really good chance of seriously ticking someone off.
          Besides, long-term…well, I won’t speak for anybody else, but it would certainly worry me if the company only gave titles exclusively to the extent required by federal law.

          1. Trout 'Waver*

            I wouldn’t say it has a chance of seriously ticking someone off unless that person is already completely unreasonable. Alison has excellent advice and scripts throughout her blog here on how to have such conversations.

        2. fposte*

          Yes, there’s no legal definition of “manager” in in the U.S. It’s duties, not titles, that count in the law.

        3. Trout 'Waver*

          Well, the benefits aren’t necessarily tied to the “officialness” of your leadership. Unless the benefits are hard-wired to the title by your company, there is nothing magical about being an official leader that gets you better benefits. Oftentimes individual contributors are paid more than leaders or managers.

          If you don’t care about title, but want the benefits, go ask for them. If they say no, apply for jobs elsewhere and get paid for your valuable skills.

          1. Specialk9*

            In my company, your level/grade determines bonus percent and amount of PTO. Other than that, there are wide pay bands.

    5. designbot*

      I was hired specifically to lead a small team/topic area, but when the offer came it said ‘designer’ instead of ‘director.’ I pushed back but ultimately the answer was that the guy before me had more experience and they didn’t think I was at director level, though they were still happy to pile on the duties. I gave it a year and advocated for the title by showing that clients and partners were confused about my role. I still found myself stuck in limbo for other reasons, but I’d absolutely say to push for it directly, outlining the duties of your title as compared to the duties you actually do.

    6. Bea W*

      All the time. It’s because I know my stuff and naturally tend toward leading. My experience is the same as your though. I do the work. I make the decisions. I come up with the ideas. Someone else gets the official title, promotion, and credit. I get a lot of broken promises and even the occasional knife in the back. It’s been all about dysfunctional office politics in my cases. I think a few unscrupulous people take advantage because I’m always happy to help out. I don’t necessarily want to be promoted, but I do want to be fairly recognized and acknowledged.

      When it’s clear I’m doing the work while someone else gets all the glory and there’s no intention to allow me to get visible credit for my role in leadership, I pick up my toys and leave. That sounds childish, but getting actively used and snubbed does no favors for my career path. I have zero incentive or desire to advance the careers of others to my own detriment, especially when they can’t be bothered to acknowledge my work even just a little. Nope. Not happening.

      I don’t have tips on this problem really. I feel your pain and hope other people know how to deal with it that is better than just avoiding people who are obviously using you. That’s not practical or totally helpful as career advice.

    7. Kris*

      I’m unofficially in charge of interns in my office. I really wish I could divest myself of this responsibility but I’m not hopeful.

    8. Chaordic One*

      Been there, done that. It usually happens when one of our forward-thinking leaders is out of the office (which happens an awful lot). I certainly don’t think it is something I do particularly well, but no one else seems to want to and I’m better at it than just about everyone else left in the office. Also, I’m fairly well organized and if I don’t the answer to something, I usually know where to get it.

      But, yeah, it is a real PITA.

    9. Eye of Sauron*

      I don’t know if this helps, but sometimes the ‘unofficial leaders’ do get promoted. I started managing a group that had one of these. For the life of me I couldn’t figure out why she wasn’t at least a team lead (seriously she had like 10 years without a promotion, it was ridiculous) . So within 2 years her reporting to me, she was promoted to TL, last year Supervisor, and next year I’m going to push for Manager.

      1. HS Teacher*

        Something similar happened to me. I have never say no disease, so my principal has really come to lean on me. I’m on the leadership committee, hiring committee, community outreach committee, so on and so forth. When they asked me to work with the district curriculum director to tailor the curriculum to our school, they offered to pay me a really nice hourly raise because I have to work outside contract hours. It’s become my part-time job, which is really helpful since I struggle to make it on just my salary. If I’d never said yes those other times, I wouldn’t have gotten this opportunity.

        (This advice may not work in a private company for a salaried person.) I never made extra for doing extra work when I worked in the private sector, although I did do well in raises.

    10. Nita*

      So my husband was in this role for almost ten years. His boss said several times that he’ll officially take her place when she retires, but that didn’t happen. Three years before her retirement, new management came in and started stuffing their buddies in all the top positions.

      My husband has been in public service for years, which can be pretty different from the private sector, but what he’s observed is that to get ahead, you have to spend a ton of time chitchatting and reinforcing your standing in office politics. Doing actual work seriously gets in the way of that. I’m in a private company and it’s also true but to a lesser extent – you do get judged on your merits, but if you don’t network, you can only get so far because if you don’t know how to build a team and delegate, you can’t be any kind of leader, official or unofficial.

  6. Rhymetime*

    I will soon start a new position that I’m excited about. I’m an educator by training and experience and later moved into other work in the nonprofit sector. I’ve been a mentor in multiple jobs and I have also volunteered with a professional association to mentor others early in their careers. I consistently hear from both my mentees and my managers that I’m capable and helpful, and I enjoy doing it. In the past, I passed up opportunities for promotions to be a formal manager, because I didn’t want that responsibility after finding being a manager of a large team to be a stressful experience in a previous career.

    In my new job, I’m going to be an actual manager at a good-sized nonprofit. I will have a single report. I’m realizing that I was holding on to old fears about being a manager from an experience when I was much younger, and now I’m looking forward to working with this individual. She is almost as new to the organization as I am, was part of my interview panel and we hit it off well, and she sent me a thoughtful note welcoming me to the team. Through my network in the community, I’ve heard great things about her work, and I see my role as helping her succeed.

    I have worked with some outstanding managers over the years and will model their best practice, and some of my mentoring skills and training will come in handy. My own manager seems amazing and knows my situation, and I’m confident that he’ll provide good support and guidance for me. I recognize that mentoring isn’t identical to managing and I understand some basics–I’ll trust her to be capable, be accessible, seek her input, balance positive and critical feedback, avoid micromanaging, won’t shut down her ideas, etc.–and I know that I have a lot to learn as well.

    That’s all background for my actual question. How should I set up my first meeting with her? What format should I have? What should be on the agenda? Beyond, “Hi Lily, I’m glad we’re going to be able to work together” I’m realizing that I don’t know what comes next. While I’m sure I’ll be back here for resources on being an effective manager later on, this what-do-I-do first question is the one that’s urgent since I’m starting my job in a couple weeks. I of course am brand new to the organization so there will be a lot I don’t know yet and I’ll be open about that, but I want to set a good tone of mutual trust and confidence in this first meeting.

    Nuts and bolts advice for our first meeting needed, please!

    1. Washi*

      My favorite manager used our first meeting to learn more about me and what I do, and talk about working styles, both hers and mine. It was really helpful and low key!

    2. SpaceNovice*

      Well, you mentioned “best practices”, so that’s a good start to being a good manager. You’re seeking to improve–and those that generally seek to improve will. That’s just how it works. You’ll do great!

      There’s no need to have an overly formal first meeting–just focus on learning about your employee and the workplace. One of the most impressive managers I ever saw sat back for a few weeks and just observed, talked to everyone 1-on-1, and learned about the department. You don’t know what comes next because you literally don’t know what’s coming next yet! You gotta know what you’re working with before you start working with it.

      Talk to your employee about what she does, what her goals are, what things are important to her, etc. Let herknow you’re going to learn the ropes and that she is your subject matter expert. You value her opinion. Tell her that you want a constructive two way street about feedback. Admit when you’re wrong. Basically, be open about what you know and what you don’t know, and make sure your employee knows she can speak up! Constructive problem solving is important. Managers are supposed to make it easier for their employees to get their work done.

    3. Lindsay J*

      I’ll be following this thread as well, as my 30 day plan in my new position includes meeting with all my new direct reports, and, I really have no clue what to do other than ask them what need from me to be successful in their position.

    4. Huh*

      Usually Alison is very diligent about calling out sock puppetting/people posting with multiple accounts. I’m surprised she hasn’t done it here. I wonder why the rules are not always applied fairly here.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Sock puppetry is when someone posts under multiple user names in an attempt to make it look like their viewpoint has multiple defenders. It’s not sock puppetry to simply change user names, which is what I think you’re referring to here (presumably because this commenter has the same photo as she’s used in the past with a different name?). What she’s done is fine with me.

        To your broader point, it’s true that the rules aren’t enforced consistently here! I’m a one-person site, and I’m not online 24/7 and don’t see every comment. But I actually don’t think moderation absolutely must be 100% consistent. There are lots of ways of running a comment section that work fine, from very heavy moderation to almost none at all. I comment and moderate when I can, which I hope helps set an overall tone, but I’m okay with being only a sporadic presence.

        1. Rhymetime*

          To clarify, I could have chosen to say Anonymous For This Post as some people do. I used this handle because I don’t want my other persona to show up on Google searches, since I try to keep my work life and my public life separate. That’s all. There’s no nefarious intention here.

        2. Little Twelvetoes*

          Alison, I think you do a very good job moderating. But I worry that you never have a real vacation.

    5. Caroline_Herschel*

      Your mileage may vary, but I’ve had a lot of luck setting up first meetings with a short, informal agenda that includes some questions about work styles, what they’re looking for in a manager, what sort of professional development they’re interested in, etc. It’s been helpful to structure it so that it can be a conversation rather than a barrage of questions, and I’ve also used it as an opportunity to share about my working style, open door policy and any expectations for communication.

      I’ve probably done this with about seven people I’ve either hired or taken over management for, and so far everyone’s reacted really positively to it. I think provides a way to “set the tone” as you mentioned.

    6. Rhymetime*

      Thanks for the great suggestions, everyone–very helpful. And thank you Alison for offering this great, helpful forum for questions on Fridays.

    7. OOF*

      When I’m the new manager on a team, in the first conversation with direct reports I cover:

      1. My work style (open door, direct)
      2. Expectations (you don’t have to request time off for a dr appt, just put it on your calendar that I can see; meeting schedule; what I need to approve versus what can be decided independently)
      3. What they like most about their job, what they need from this position to excel, how they feel about their role
      4. How they measure success

      Good luck!!

  7. TV Researcher*

    So, the last time I wrote in on a Friday open thread was about eight months ago. A work colleague/friend had recently passed away from cancer at the way too early age of 35 and I myself was going through cancer treatment (after recovering from surgery that kept me out of work for five weeks). Y’all gave me a lot of great advice, some of which I took, and some of which I didn’t (though in hindsight, I absolutely should have).

    I’m not quite sure why I’m writing except to vent. The recovery process is taking longer than I thought it would. I’m now 6 months, 2 weeks out from my last chemo treatment and I still get tired so easily. My doctor told me it would take between 6 months and a year for me to feel like myself, and I’m just not that patient. I still am achy a lot, and I don’t seem to have the energy to get out and do stuff that would allow me to clear my head from work stuff. I think I tried to do too much too soon and I’m paying for it now. And I should mention that my last scan (3 months ago) was clean. And the expectation is that my next scan will be clean, and yet…

    I am finding it incredibly difficult to concentrate, which in a field that deals with numbers all day is a bit of a problem. Part of the concentration issue stems from the fact that my quarterly scans are coming up (next week… ahhhhh!), so I’m incredibly anxious and emotional. I warned my boss and her boss that this was happening, but I think that had the end result of effectively sidelining me during my department’s busiest time of year. I know I won’t be in this situation forever, but I feel like I’m not showing my best self these days. It’s not that I don’t want to; it just seems like I can’t.

    I went through a period a few months ago, where I made a lot of mistakes at work and I think that’s top of people’s minds. I’ve since cut down on that, but it’s been a while to earn back my boss’ trust. I’m also a mini-department of one, so I don’t have folks to bounce ideas off of, cover for me or even check my work (though that’s getting better now). I think what I really need is a new job, but I can’t put forth the mental energy to find one right now and due to stupidly expensive doctor’s visits, I absolutely can’t be without health insurance.

    I’m not sure what I was hoping for with this spiel, but I think I just needed a good vent. So, thank you for allowing me this space and please pardon any typos.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      *crosses fingers* for another clean scan!

      I think if you’re communicating with your supervisors, that will help a lot. And if you have an EAP, maybe take advantage of the counseling offered? Even just a phone consult might help you with some strategies to manage your anxiety.

    2. KR*

      My sister has a few chronic illnesses, so not cancer, but it causes severe brain fog similar to “chemo brain”. Just know that you are dealing with a legitimate medical symptom here and you might not be able to speed up your recovery more. You’re doing the best you can. Have you been to see a therapist or been screened for depression? Depression can show up as fatigue and lack of energy and inability to focus, which may be exacerbating the chemo brain.
      I’m glad your scans are coming up clean and I hope they continue to. Internet hugs if you want them.

      2. Hrovitnir*

        +1

        I can’t conceive of how hard this must be, but seriously chemo does a real number on you; you can’t just be magically 100% any more than you can “just” get better from a more common illness when you want to. I hope your work can be supportive and work with you through this.

    3. Work Wardrobe*

      I’m sorry you’re going through this.

      My SO had chemo/radiation treatment, and it took about a year for him to feel mostly normal. I say mostly because, to be honest, he feels like he’ll never be quite as energetic and strong as before. However, NO CANCER so that’s the tradeoff.

      My best to you.

    4. Clorinda*

      Break down your work into the smallest possible chunks.
      Your recovery, too. You won’t be all the way back to your old self tomorrow. But maybe today you can take yourself for a ten minute walk (or whatever your current limit is), and that’s enough.
      Really, that IS enough! It sounds like you’re doing as much as you reasonably can.

    5. Lora*

      Been there and all I can tell you is that it’s really a waiting game. It sucks, I’m sorry. But congrats on the clean scan! That’s great!

      I found it most useful to organize my work in time frames when I typically had energy to focus. Mornings are good, I can bang out work, but by 11:30 I started flagging. It took a couple of years before I felt normal-ish again and had even moderately good afternoons. I scheduled the wrench-turning boring work for afternoons, as much as I could. I could still be…mmmm I could still do social things, like having 1:1 meetings and the kind of meetings where you’re trying to get other people to talk, so I tried to schedule those for afternoons over coffee/tea.

      Hopefully you will have many more clean scans!

    6. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

      Best wishes for your full recovery!

      Maybe a cancer-survivor support group (especially online ones, so it’s not another fatigue-inducing meeting to attend) could be helpful, so you could talk more about your symptoms with other people who had the same experience? Maybe the doctors say “6 months to a year” to try not to frustrate patients, when more people experience it as “10 to 18 months.” I hope your department starts giving you the support that you deserve at work.

    7. Silicon Valley Girl*

      I’m 5 years out from cancer w/chemo & radiation, & yeah, it’s a bit of a rollercoaster to get back to feeling “normal.” Concentration at work can be difficult, & it’s great that you’ve been open with your boss & coworkers (I couldn’t for a variety of reasons). Make lots of notes, lists, documentation, & take breaks. Try to figure out if you have more energy early or later in the day & schedule important tasks/mtgs for those times. And be kind to yourself! Your body has been through A LOT. Your job is important (I sure do hear you on needing insurance!), but just take it one day at a time, & you’ll get through the now, which should be the worst of it. Good luck!

    8. lulu*

      Please give yourself a break. I don’t think mistakes a few months ago, when you had just finished chemo, are at the top of people’s mind. Focus on your recovery for at least 6 more months, during which allow yourself to be okay at your job, not a rock star, and hopefully that will take some of the pressure off. In 6 month you can assess how you feel, and decide if it’s time to move on or improve your performance at your current job. good luck!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed. Maybe you are “sidelined”, but I tend to think that the company is just determined to make sure you keep having a paycheck through all this. Only time will prove this theory right or wrong.
        Fight one battle at a time. Get your health back. Give yourself at least a year. Then decide about the job. It’s too much to get one’s health sorted out AND look for a new job.
        My setting was no where near your setting, but I went through some rocky times at one job. I was so glad that at least I knew the job well enough to do it in my sleep, because it felt like I was sleeping at work. (I wasn’t, I had to be on my feet all day. However, some things were more like automatic responses rather than actual thinking. I’d catch myself automatically doing Y after completing X and think, “Boy, if I were not familiar with the job I don’t know if I would have remembered to do Y.”
        So even though the job was not great, the familiarity was very helpful, while I dealt with health stuff. Sorting the health stuff was a big brain drain and the familiarity with job allowed me brain space to sort the health stuff.

    9. EB*

      Hi! I’m a young adult cancer survivor and I just want to echo what everyone said. I’m a little over two years out from treatment and I’m finally starting to hit a stride where I feel physically and mentally similar to where I was at before. If you’re open to trying it– meditation and yoga helped me slowly gain physical strength and helped my concentration and anxiety. Prior to cancer, I would never consider myself a “yoga person” but it’s really helped! Therapy also helped a lot, though it was emotionally draining at times so I don’t blame survivors for taking their time with starting therapy.

    10. Batshua*

      I don’t want to be That Person saying “Have You Tried”, but a quick google suggests to me that chemo can trash your mitochondria, the thing in your cells that literally carries energy.

      Fibromyalgia comes with lower mitochondrial efficiency, and CoQ10 has helped me some (I saw actual studies about this before I tried it).

      I don’t know if it will help you, and it did not make me Young Again! or A Whole New Person! like the advertising hype says, but it gives me more endurance-type stamina.

      I wish you luck on your continuing recovery, and many spoons.

    11. JSPA*

      1. It won’t magically fix chemo fog, but doing all the sleep disturbance mitigation stuff (even if you’re not sleeping terribly) will boost your baseline level of function.

      Sunlight in the morning if possible. Light exercise, ditto. Hard shut down on artifical light exposure as soon as reasonably possible (work is for the work day, TV shows will be available next year). A touch of melatonin and (if you’re not already on any sort of painkiller for more serious pains) a regular strength tylenol or half of an aspirin, so that the assorted muscle aches don’t pull you into semi-consciousness as you roll over. Regular massage and stretching. If you’re having digestive issues that rouse you at night (chemo can work your gut flora over badly), a good broad spectrum enzyme capsule with meals. If you’re waking up to pee, pound down all kinds of herb teas at work in the morning, then taper off in the evening.

      2. Conscious alignment of your physical realities with the jobs to be done. Chances are there’s a time of day when you are sharpest. If possible, get blessings from work to use that time either to a) do the original data entry or b) check over the previous day’s (not to be sitting in a meeting or answering emails). If possible, get blessings from work to split essential tasks over two days, so that you can be your own “fresh pair of eyes.” (It’s a dubious benefit, but if you’re befogged, it’s interesting how unfamiliar your own work will look, just one day later.) As a corollary, it may help if you can make fairly substantive notes in real time about your thinking and your process, without disrupting your workflow. If that’s too much cognitive overload–that’s useful information in its own right.

      3. Learning to feel good about doing a tolerable job, for a tolerable part of the day–and devoting a chunk of each day to existing and healing. You wouldn’t expect to shake off a concussion or heal a broken bone by pounding on it. You similarly don’t get much say on how fast you can insist on recovering from chemo brain. You do get to (gratefully!) “take a bye” when work offers you one, or volunteer to take on smaller tasks that can be successfully completed in smaller windows of clarity, with the goal of healing better. (Not necessarily faster, but in ways that don’t set up all sorts of secondary damage.)

      4. It’s easier for other people to work with you and be your backup brain for facts and figures if they don’t get stuck with the awkward job of being your backup brain for self-awareness tasks. You don’t want to become known for lack of self knowledge, over-promising or brittleness. People will forgive considerable ability deficits for months, provided they don’t have to spend mental energy second-guessing your assessment of your ability, or wondering if you’re really going to deliver that thing that you’re insisting you’ll deliver. (After all, people who never had half your drive, attention span and ability manage to get and hold down jobs.)

      5. There’s a lot of natural, normal ego stuff (in the sense of pride, and also in the sense of self-identity) that gets invested in functioning at a certain level of competence. But tying self worth or identity to that sort of pride can be terribly undermining. You don’t want to set yourself into a death spiral of confusion, exhaustion, overcompensation, and diminished time for relaxation and healing. You were very much yourself at age 5, before all the learned skills and commitment to reliability. It sounds sort of touchy-feely, but reassuring yourself that the “essential you” has not been lost can take down a lot of the free floating anxiety.

      6. If you ever wondered if you might be ADD, or depressed, or have an anxiety disorder, the additional overload of chemo brain can really bring those issues to the fore. You don’t necessarily have to medicate (might help, might not) but the strategies for dealing with each of those issues may give you what you need right now, to navigate more smoothly.

      Good Luck!

  8. Snarkus Aurelius*

    What do you guys do when a coworker or coworkers so something that’s clearly in your purview but don’t tell you about it after they’ve made all these decisions without you?

    I do media outreach, which I was specifically hired to do, and once again another coworker has taken it upon herself to make a decision to do something without asking for my input. She literally did my job for me.

    I’ve tried to fight it in the past by saying I’d love the opportunity to give feedback, but I’ve gotten nowhere. So now I sit back and let the emails fly with no response. Only one time did someone ask me why I was silent, and all I said was, “No one initially asked for my participation so I assumed my input wasn’t needed.”

    Any other suggestions?

    1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      I know the feeling. Been there, done that. You have been shutdown before when you offered your input. If that seems to be the culture in your office just grin and bear it. I know it is tough but when the fit hits the shan, just smirk and giggle a bit.

      1. Specialk9*

        I hope you just got here, because that’s not the professional thing to do. Like at all. Except maybe in the most toxic of workplaces, which is decidedly not what Snarkus A was describing.

        1. HS Teacher*

          Why criticize the post without offering a response to the OP? It seems like you’re being hostile to Cajun2core. What difference does it make if someone is new here or a long-time commenter?

          1. JSPA*

            It’s hard to read here for very long and still subscribe to the passive-aggresive model for work interaction–except in cases where the workplace is so completely FUBAR that there’s nothing to be done except mark time while looking for a new job.

            Some actual advice:

            if what you do is specialize in a skill that many people also possess and use in everyday life (reading, writing, editing, researching, graphics) accept that it’s not always more effective for them to pass every instance of those things over to you. (Flyer for the monthly birthday party? No need to engage the graphics person.) For media outreach, more specifically– if people have friends or long-time contacts in various media companies, it’s a big ask, to suggest that they never again contact the people whom they know.

            Make your turnaround time and availability explicitly clear, as you would if you were independent. e.g. Glossy insert to accompany promotional email and print mailer, using existing company logo and backgrounds, plus supplied data: turnaround time x number of hours, with x days advance notice; turnaround time y number of hours, with no advance notice.

            Find out why it’s easy for them to do it themselves. Do they already have an email list of all the relevant contacts, so that sending an email to media directly is actually exactly as easy, for them–and faster, because there’s one less step–than if they first sent it to you, for you to send?

            Find out what they’re getting out of doing it themselves. Do they not like some of the media on your standard list? If so, why? Do they want their item to go first to selected outlets, then to other outlets? If so, why? Do your contacts (at the station, newspaper, etc) differ from theirs, and if so, why does that matter? Do they feel that too many items sent from the same email get sent to a spam box or “circular filed” (this IS a thing that happens) so they therefore prefer to mix it up a bit?

            Find out what you could do that would add utility in their eyes (not yours). If you can’t make the case that going through you adds significant value, relative to the extra time and loss of control that handing things off to you requires, then you can’t reasonably expect things to change.

          2. Specialk9*

            I had actually provided advice to the original question, scroll down. You may be right that it wasn’t said kindly enough to Cajun2core, for which Cajun I apologise. But ‘stay silent, let them fail and smirk’ is not really what this whole site is about. There are lots of places on the internet where it is! This site is about effective, healthy ways of dealing with challenges.

    2. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      I remember a post about addressing this with coworkers – apparently it’s a common issue in art and communication fields. Make it about the work quality aspect. I’ll try to find the link.

      1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        I found the link it was the one about the graphic designer whose non designer colleagues kept doing her work. I’ve posted the link but it’s in moderation.

    4. Nea*

      and all I said was, “No one initially asked for my participation so I assumed my input wasn’t needed.”

      Noooooooo! Don’t give them a pass on literally taking over your job! And don’t just say you’d like input – this is obviously far too subtle for the person trying to push you out.

      1) Talk to the co-worker and ask why they are doing this. Don’t hint around, point out that they are making decisions on your behalf. Make them justify it! Point directly to problems that it may have caused with clients/mixed messages being given by the company, etc. Tell them to Stop. That. Right. Now. in no uncertain terms — and document that talk.

      2) Document all the times it has happened and the outcomes (even in the past) and take the documentation to your boss and ask them directly what is up.

      I realize it’s uncomfortable, but so is being pushed out of your job by degrees by someone who’s decided to take your position even if you’re still filling it.

      1. Parenthetically*

        This. You can’t assume your input wasn’t needed on something that’s your job. You (and everyone else) need to assume your input IS needed, and you need to clarify that in plain language with your colleagues.

        1. Legal Beagle*

          Agree. I understand feeling annoyed, but your response sounded like pouting. You have to be direct and clear. I’d also go to the person’s boss if they kept bypassing me after I clearly explained why that wasn’t ok.

      2. Lady By The Lake*

        Totally agree — don’t be passive aggressive, instead, use your words. If this goes sideways you are going to be on the hook because you are now aware of it but are doing nothing. I don’t think “they didn’t ask for my input” when it is clearly your job is going to fly. No need to be mean about it, but just go to the person and ask why they are doing this.

      3. Gatomon*

        Yes, if you don’t address this, you’re proving that your input isn’t needed. If the results aren’t a complete disaster, then eventually someone higher up might wonder what you’re doing at the company.

        Better to get buy-in from the higher UPS to crack down on this before it goes any further. Your boss may also be expecting you to address this to some extent yourself.

      4. TootsNYC*

        Yep, and also say, “that’s my job. I need you to stop doing it.”

        It’s not helpful, and you don’t need help anyway.

        Doing your job is how you stay “in shape” and how you demonstrate your value to the company. So that’s one way this person is hurting you.

        Then there’s the idea that suddenly two sets of hands are dealing with this, and there’s confusion.

        Then there’s the crummy job that’s getting done. AND the higher-ups will blame you for it no matter who is working on it.

        I will say this–don’t leave a vacuum. Act quickly; also build relationships with everyone who might send work your way, especially if they’re sending it to her. Also directly ask those people to send things to you, and NOT to your coworker.

    5. Washi*

      I think you really need your manager to have your back if this is a regular thing. For example, at my past org, all our managers told us that if we wanted to make a flyer, invitation, etc, we HAD to run it by marketing. Some people were grumpy about it, but it was made clear that this was not optional and was done to ensure consistent messaging/branding. Some people were grumpy that they couldn’t use pink Comic Sans all over the place or whatever, but because the managers stood by our marketing person, there weren’t too many who went rogue.

    6. MuseumChick*

      I think you need to use more direct language (tone here is key) “Hey Jane, going forward any time X comes up loop me in. I need to know about this kind of thing for (insert reasons). Thanks!”

      Then if it keeps happening, “Hey Jane, I think we discussed this before. If X comes up I need to know about before anything moves forward.”

      1. Leave it to Beaver*

        Exactly so. There’s one person in my organization that simply doesn’t get it. I’ve had this exact conversation with him both over the phone and in writing at least 5 times this year. (Even with his boss and boss’s boss involved). I’m not sure if he’s naive, arrogant, or ignorant.

    7. Washi*

      Ugh, just typed a comment that maybe disappeared?

      Anyway, I’ve seen this play out a lot in marketing/communications, and the only thing that works is to have consistent messaging from the top that X and Y always need to be checked by Z. This is how it works at my org and some people are pretty grumpy about it, but because it comes from the top down, we don’t end up with a ton of people going rogue with the Comic Sans bold pink highlights or whatever in their materials.

      1. Alice*

        From the other side — I’d love to be able to delegate more to my department’s marketing committee, but their timeline is slow and uncertain. I honestly don’t know how much time they need to get a project out the door, but it’s more than a month. (And in this case, “project” means a blogpost to an existing blog, email to a pre-existing list, and 8.5×11 poster built on a template.)

    8. lulu*

      This is part of your job, you need to have a strategy to manage it beyond getting annoyed and ignoring it, because it’s going to keep happening. So you need a formal consistent way to push back on it when it happens, as well as periodic reminders, hopefully sent out by someone high up the food chain, that all media outreach (with examples of what that means) have to go through you.

    9. SpaceNovice*

      You need to go to your boss to lock this down somewhat at some point. There needs to be a process or hierarchy for decisions to be put in place to stop this from happening.

      I have no idea why they’re avoiding you when everything is supposed to go through you. Clearly things haven’t been communicated or something like that. You’ll have to gather more information about what’s going on there; use the “tone” that Alison mentioned in her latest podcast. People could simply be used to doing it themselves that they do it without thinking, or they’re afraid to not be in the optics of the boss as much if they relinquish control to someone else.

      You could look up marketing compliance and start enforcing it that way, too. Google “marketing compliance” and learn of it. If it’s not marketing, find some compliance issues that you DO have to worry about, then go to your boss and explain that you can end up in hot water if stuff isn’t done correctly. Still definitely allow your coworkers to come up with ideas and make sure they get credit if they help with stuff, but everything does have to go through you. Acknowledge that’s a pain in the butt to deal with, but it’s just how it is. If someone missteps when you could have helped them avoid it, the company might have no other choice than to fire them due to liability. Basically, make the consequences of a screw-up that you’re trying to avoid real in the minds of your coworkers and boss while acknowledging that it’s an annoying necessity.

      Additionally: you want uniformity in the branding across all platforms. You can’t do that if people aren’t talking to you and doing things on their own. Maybe people can still have a part in helping with outreach, but everyone needs to be on the same page. People are used to doing stuff all on their own, so definitely make sure to use the whole “tone” that Alison suggested. Make sure to listen to them. Explain to them what you’re doing and why, treating them as colleagues and not children.

      (Also, the idea of random coworkers doing marketing outreach is seriously terrifying. Oh my god.)

      1. Alice*

        And make sure that your templates actually work for the content that your coworkers are going to put in them — not using crazy unusual fonts that won’t display on their machines, etc.
        (Not a big picture suggestion at all — the other responses in this thread handle that very well! Just a comment from someone on the other side of the communications gap)

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Yes–that too! And encourage feedback on improving your information capture tools after people get a chance to use them. They’ll figure out ways to make them better.

    11. Evil HR Person*

      The heck?! Does your company NOT have a Social Media Policy? Ours does, so that any social media posts for the company have to be posted by someone who’s vetted, someone like yourself who would have been hired to do this job specifically. Everyone else would be going against policy and getting a stern talking-to, if not disciplined outright. Get with your supervisor ASAP! Don’t let others do your job for you without raising a stink. The company’s reputation is a stake!

      1. SpaceNovice*

        Oh yes, policy! Policy, policy, policy!

        (Also depending on what stuff there is–you could get in trouble for noncompliance with outreach. And that’s the last thing you want!)

    12. Not So NewReader*

      I will be the different answer here.
      If you are seeing the emails in real time, then they are probably assuming that you will jump in where you can/want.
      It’s when I don’t see the emails that I worry the most.
      If you are waiting for them to literally ask, “Will you help with this?” they may not ask. Because that question is implied simply because you are on the email list. To say that directly could be read as redundant therefore insulting.
      You know your setting the best, of course. But my advice would be do something on the first email. “Okay folks, i see this and I will take it from here. This one comes under my job description.”

      If none of this makes sense for your setting, then it might be time for a boss to step in and redirect the conversation toward you.

      1. Specialk9*

        Oh that’s a really good point! If someone is on an email, it’s because I think they’re relevant and want them both to be clued in, and able to speak up if we need to do something or change direction. I wonder if your coworkers are wondering why you’re not speaking up more, even after getting a polite nudge.

    13. Specialk9*

      You didn’t actually use your words. You’re not opening your space, and nobody else will own it for you.

      What you were thinking was:
      ‘Hey that’s my job stop doing it!’

      But your words were:
      ‘I’d love to give feedback.’

      (which she may have read in confusion, bc the project was already wrapped up, why would she need feedback?)

      and

      ‘Nobody asked me so I assume I’m not wanted’

      (which was not terribly mature)

      So go brush up on Alison scripts, and find a way to bring up your concern with your manager. Practice over and over till you stop having emotions come through so clearly, and it’s just a suboptimal business process that you’re confused by, and concerned about.

      You can do this. Using your words, properly, is so bloody hard! But so very necessary. Good luck!

    14. Leave it to Beaver*

      I also do media outreach and I work for a large organization with many folks who don’t know what that entails. As a communication professional, it’s important that you communicate why it’s important for them to discuss press situations with you. A passive response, such as “I’d love the opportunity to give feedback” doesn’t actually convey that they need to include you in these decisions. They may not think they need feedback… any feedback, regardless of who it belongs to. Instead you want to outline how notifying you in advance can help support their work and create better outcomes and in some cases reduce the potential for negative outcomes. Ignoring people who do include you on emails about media outreach, only weakens your position and encourages people to not include you.

  9. HALP!*

    AAM hive!! I posted two weeks ago about a situational/behavior interview, and asked about wearing jeans to the interview. Wanted to report back:

    The position is a project manager role, so there was a lot of drilling down into my specific role in getting projects accomplished in my current role. I had prepped a lot of answers for the standard behavioral questions, so I was slightly unprepared for drilling down that far, but it made sense to do so. So: if you are preparing for a project manager interview, be prepared to lay out very specifically for the interviewers who did what, and who managed what.

    As for the jeans vs standard clothes question: I ended up wearing a business casual dress with a blazer, but honestly, it would have been fine to have worn jeans. The most important part is that the clothes fit me well, and I wasn’t uncomfortable (I wore heels, but they didn’t pinch or hurt). They kept me for an extra 2 hours past when they had me scheduled, so comfort was key.

    All that said: I got the offer!!! I’m truly excited about the role, and now I’m just anxiously awaiting a cleared background check. I don’t anticipate any issues, but I’ve been a bundle of nerves this week. Thanks for all the feedback and good thoughts two weeks ago!

    5. go sharks go!*

      Congrats! I remember reading about your previous question, glad to hear that it all worked out for you in the end.

    9. Annie Moose*

      Congratulations! I do remember your previous post, and I’m really glad it’s working out for you!

  10. Anon in Libraryland*

    My background is in Library Science, but I’m looking at jobs in IT and I see this description, “A+ certification and network+ certification”. Is this something that you get with a Computer Science degree? I’m also looking at technical writing. Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think you automatically get those when you get a computer science degree. I believe those certifications are things you have to separately test for and keep up with. That said, I’m in IT (with a background in English and no computer-related degrees) and have zero certifications and have been able to get jobs that supposedly “require” X, Y, and Z certifications. Job requirements are usually more like wishlists. Most places will hire whomever they think is the best candidate. Unless they’re extremely bureaucratic, I can’t imagine a hiring committee saying “Well, we like Anon in Libraryland, who is clearly the best candidate, but this other candidate who’s mediocre has these certifications, so…”

      That said, all other things being equal, if you didn’t have certifications and another candidate did, maybe that would tip the scales in the other candidate’s favor.

    2. Climber*

      They are specific tests you take to get certified in that area. You can buy a book to study and take the test or take a class (which can be VERY expensive). Think of it kinda like prepping for the GRE, you’re gonna need some help.

      My partner is in IT and has taken these tests before. He opts to get a book to study and then take it.

      1. The Librarian (not the type from TNT)*

        Lynda.com (now a part of LinkedIn) has a ton of online instructional videos which might also be helpful — it’s not the same as an in-person class, but it is a lot less expensive. If you’re lucky, your local library might even subscribe to it.

    4. raisedeyebrow*

      Anyone can get an A+ or Network+ certification through CompTIA. They’re IT certifications–you can buy study guides and other materials, then you pay to take the test.

        1. Coqui*

          Subnetting is SO FUN. But OP, be kind to yourself if you don’t immediately pick it up on the first couple of tries. At my college we learned subnetting almost halfway through the semester and would go from 25 students to 10 because the students would panic and drop the class if they didn’t immediately understand the concepts.

        2. A Non E. Mouse*

          Just a warning for your network + – brush up on your subnetting, Op!

          OMG the ANDing!

          I’m so glad those tests are well in my past.

          1. Wired Wolf*

            I’m a decade out from my Network+ (sadly had to let it expire because I was way underemployed at the time and didn’t have the $$ for the annual renewal fees) and still can’t quite wrap my brain around subnetting at least without cheatsheets.

          2. Canadian Teapots*

            There are apparently good ways and bad ways to teach/learn how, and that reminds me of how two’s complement was taught in a compsci class I took. The professor said something akin to adding and subtracting one and I honestly tried to get my head around that and gave up. I went with what a book told me almost 10 years before, which was to exclusive-OR with all 1 bits and then add one. That’s a total doddle and I can do it mentally.

    5. Honor Harrington*

      A+ and network+ are specific certifications. I know many people who have gotten them without a CompuSci degree. They are considered entry-level certs. They likely want to know if you know the concepts and jargon for the position. They may want to know if you can execute basic skills, which you can also demonstrate with your experience in your resume.

      For tech writing, your portfolio will be pretty critical. An online portfolio is useful, though some hiring managers will accept emailed samples. You will have an advantage if you can detail what tech writing tools you know. You want to differentiate yourself, so if you have a MS Word cert, for example, that is a great thing to call out.

      You will need to decide what type of tech writer you want to be – medical and IT are the most common ones, but business knowledge can make a difference. With Library Science you are a natural fit for a company like OCLS, but you want to think about which vertical you want, and add knowledge in that area.

      1. Jules the Third*

        I know high schools that teach A+ certification prep, iirc it’s two semesters, the new equivalent of shop class. Networking+ is available at the local community college, 1 semester.

    6. SpaceNovice*

      Those are CompTIA brand certifications. You don’t need to have a computer science degree to get those, either! But you do have to know your stuff. They’re using certifications to make sure people know at least some minimal amount of work (or that’s the theory… people can pass tests without knowing the material extremely well in some cases).

    7. Gatomon*

      Those are certifications from CompTIA. A+ is entry level tech support, touches on a lot of areas but primarily PC building and troubleshooting. Network+ focuses more on networking, but is broader and vendor neutral (vs the CCENT or CCNA certs Cisco provides). I recommend CCNA (even CCENT) over Network+. Network+ isn’t worth the money or time if you want to get into network administration. CCNA will get you into a network engineer job whereas Network+ might help you land on a help desk.

      I have both the A+ cert and the Network+ and am working on renewing my CCNA. If you want a basic IT job, get the A+. If you want to focus on networking, skip CompTIA and do Cisco’s credential path (CCENT to CCNA). All you really need for these is a good textbook and some sort of hands-on practice. However they can be a significant investment, usually several hundred dollars for the test and materials.

      If you want to get into IT, you don’t need another degree per se, certs will do. However if you’re younger, you may want to get one to future proof; as more and more IT workers end up having one it might become a true requirement in the field to move up. It’s easier to go back at 30 vs 50!

      1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

        The A+/Net+ combo was really helpful to have on my resume when I was working on helpdesks. They weren’t required, but I could get offered a higher hourly rate by having them. I got both certs when I had half a degree in Mechanical Engineering, and was trying to break into IT. (At that point, the helpdesk seemed like a good place to start if I wanted to be a systems administrator one day.)

        I highly recommend taking practice tests, as many as you can find, as many times as is necessary. They were probably the most helpful thing when I was studying for the tests.

        (These days, I’m working as a software developer and usually leave the A+/Net+ certs off my resume entirely. I haven’t kept them up, and they’re not directly relevant to what I’m currently doing.)

        1. Gatomon*

          Yeah, usually you have to start on the helpdesk for IT, but I’ve seen the help desk become a quagmire where good techs get stuck there. If you walk in with a CCNA or obtain it while there, you can apply for the next level after you’ve done your time and made an impression with other groups. But it’s gotta happen within a few years of starting there. Too long and you just become the really good help desk tech and get too valuable to move up.

          1. Sam Foster*

            My experience, 20+ years in IT, is that the Help Desk is now a dead end job with no connection to the rest of the organization’s IT. Each of the last major five major corporations were outsourcing help desk. I see the same thing happen with data center and network engineers as the industry shifts to Software-Defined Data Centers, Software-Defined WAN, etc.

        2. Wired Wolf*

          I passed the A+ back before they started expiring certs (IIRC now they are valid for 3 years), so mine is good for life although CompTIA sure wants me to think it isn’t. The little wallet card I have bears an expiration date…but on my site profile it says Good For Life (and I have verified this with them….so why lead everyone else to believe it is expired? That’s not helping my freelance work when clueless people demand to see my ‘credentials’ and home in on the “Good Thru”…).

          I have A+ on my resume along with the exact date acquired (if someone knows how to check, that can verify that it’s permanently valid); I leave off the Net+ as it’s long-expired, but I do say something like “Knowledge of computer networking”.

    8. Annie Moose*

      For what it’s worth, from the opposite direction, tons of people have computer science degrees but don’t have those certifications. (I’ve got a CS degree, but no certifications whatsoever! I’m a programmer and certifications for us generally don’t matter a lot unless you’re working in a very specific area, e.g. AWS certification.)

      So you aren’t automatically playing catch-up to people with CS degrees or anything.

    9. Hamburke*

      My daughter has the option to get those certifications in high school. Both are entry-level certifications. Most CS degrees would expect you to have a basic knowledge of the material covered in those certifications but would not necessarily provide you with the certification process. It would depend on what kind of job you’re looking for in IT as to whether they’d be helpful.

    10. Sam Foster*

      Hey Anon in Libraryland:

      To directly answer your question, I am not familiar with any degree program that includes an A+ or Network+ certificate. Community and Junior colleges often have certification classes to get them.

      I’ve been in IT work a long time, 20+ years, and the jobs that require A+ or Network+ are becoming niche. Technical Support/Help Desk/Support Desks are being outsourced (last five major companies I’ve worked for did this) and data centers are next in line with the Software Defined Data Center. Yes, there are still jobs, but, they’re being isolated from mainline corporations and will not have a way out except for up the ranks within that organization. In my opinion, most of the advice one sees about IT is 5-10 years old.

      My advice is figure out which part of IT you want to be in (support, programming, database, big data (it’s different, VERY different), service delivery, enterprise architect, solutions architect, strategist, business analyst, system administrator, cloud, security (network, cyber, data), audit, compliance, etc. etc. etc.) and figure out if your skills line up.

      If you are looking for an immediate jump three roles/areas come to mind for a librarian-type: Knowledge Management (huge space with lots of options), configuration analyst (keeps a pile of data in a system straight and updated), and entry-level analysis, maybe, business, data, risk or compliance.

  11. Lola F*

    Happy Friday!

    I am currently working as a temp in a small real estate office. Management is in the process of interviewing for a Receptionist, but I am not involved in the interview process for the role. Yesterday morning, our current receptionist said someone was here to see me. Turns out it the applicant for this role was someone I knew at a previous job. Haven’t seen her in close to a year. She was told by my agency that I worked there.

    The kicker? This girl is a disaster. A drama llama with a bad temper, poor stress management skills, and poor work ethic. The end of our working relationship was strained because of her attitude towards me and pen throwing (!!) tantrums. I do not want to be professionally or personally associated with this girl. I do not know why the agency shared that I work at this office, but I’m annoyed that I was unknowingly put in an awkward situation.

    Would it be out of line to call my agency and ask for separation? Or should I just let it go?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Do you have a solid relationship with your onsite supervisor? Or specifically the hiring manager for the position that she was there to interview for? If so, I think sharing your experience with her would be your best bet.

    2. Ainomiaka*

      Just the fact that you are at the same company isn’t much of an association. Would she be interacting with you much at all? This seems extreme unless your position will be close.
      That said, if you can stick to verifiable facts, you can say what your experience with her was to people you are reasonably professionally close to.

    3. MuseumChick*

      I would speak to whoever is handling hiring at your current job, let them know that you worked with this girl previously and that based on that experience you felt compelled to speak up. Sticking with pure facts share what your experience working with her was like (pen throwing???? OMG).

    4. Jessi*

      is there any reason you can’t go to the hiring manager / your boss/ supervisor and say “Hey, I’m not sure if you want to hear this but I previously worked with drama lama at X workplace. She doesn’t do well under stress and when she left x workplace she was having tantrums and throwing pens. I’m not trying to get her in trouble but I would feel guilty if we were to hire her and you didn’t know this”

    5. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Quitting just because they told her you worked there seems like a bit much in your situation – but I’m only saying this because you sound more like you’re annoyed with her and not like you’re generally afraid for your safety being around her.

      However, I do think you have some standing to address this with whoever is hiring at your job – you worked with her, and to use your own words – she threw objects when she was angry. That’s unacceptable pretty much anywhere, including most preschools. (For the preschoolers.) That’s a major concern – what if she gets mad with a customer and starts throwing pens at them?

    6. Bea*

      Wtfffff, I would alert the person you’re working for right now. I would also remind the agency about your history with her. It’s not bizarre they told her you were there because it’s “we placed Op there too!” while giving her info on the opening. The weirdness is she’s asking to say hi to you like you don’t remember she’s unhinged.

    7. Chaordic One*

      I would let things go with the temp agency, but I would say something to the management of the small real estate office. They (probably) deserve to have someone a little more stable and mature in the position.

    8. TootsNYC*

      I don’t know what “asking for separation” means.

      Does it mean you’d quit the temp agency, or that you’d ask to be reassigned to a different company?

      The girl doesn’t even have the job yet, so I don’t think you need to leave this company to avoid her. And absolutely, especially if you have any goodwill toward this company, I’d tell someone sensible there.

      If your main problem is with the agency, and their telling her about you working there, I don’t know that I’d say to sever the relationship with them, but I -would- think you could say to them, “I didn’t like that you told her I was there, and to have her look me up. I don’t want to be associated with her in other people’s minds, not even by having the receptionist page me for her. And I’d prefer in general that you not tell other people where I’m working. If they don’t already know me well enough to know that, they don’t need to know it now. Please keep that in mind.”
      Note that this tells the temp agency that you have a poor opinion of her.

    9. Hamburke*

      I would call the agency and fill them in on the pen throwing tantrums. Then ask them not to tell this person where you work or place them in the same location.

  12. Anon for this*

    I’m a woman working in a male-dominated industry. I have voluntarily taken on two responsibilities above and beyond my normal job description. In both cases, I was initially the backup person, but both of the primary people — who were both women — have left the department, so I’m now the primary person for both.

    My manager wants me to train a backup person for one of these responsibilities. I immediately thought of a specific guy, who is a high performer and who has previously taken initiative to provide useful input on the subject, but he practically ran away screaming when I asked if he was interested in becoming my backup. A female coworker overheard and later approached me to say that she would like to do it.

    Is it terrible that I am concerned about having this responsibility done by three consecutive women, when men outnumber women in the department 2:1? Both of my extra responsibilities are serious technical things — not “office housework” tasks that so often get foisted on women like party planning and taking notes at meetings — but I worry that if women are the only ones to take on these responsibilities, the responsibilities will start to be viewed as office housework. I recently attended an industry conference related to this responsibility, where the male:female ratio was about 3:1, so this is not typical in the industry, but I am afraid that I will lose respect at my company for the work I’m doing if it starts to be considered a woman’s job.

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      So long as it’s technical and not Office Birthday Tracker, I really don’t think you need to worry. Your colleague probably ran screaming because he either has a lot on his plate, or he just really loathes spout attachment and doesn’t want to risk becoming default spout attacher.

      Look at it this way: A lot of offices could spin their last 3 spout attachers being women as a sign of their many technical openings for women and willingness to promote them, when 3 out of 4 spout attachers in the industry are still men.

      1. Anon for this*

        I don’t think they could realistically spin it like that. It’s not a promotion — there is no title change or pay raise — just extra work. Plus, 9 out of the last 10 management positions in the department have been filled by men, so if anything, the situation is the opposite of a willingness to promote women.

        1. cdmbna*

          Based on this info, I think I see where your concern is stemming from. To oversimplify: they promote men in the office, but ask the women to do extra work without a promotion or extra compensation. I agree that this is a tricky situation to navigate, especially since a woman approached you about wanting to do the extra work. But perhaps you could talk to your boss about adding compensation for this task, while mentioning that you don’t want your fellow coworkers to get the impression that these technical tasks are not valued by the company.

        2. neverjaunty*

          Why isn’t there extra compensation?

          I’m guessing the male colleague ran away screaming because he can. Your office figures the women will suck it up and do the work without complaining OR asking for more. Push back on that.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think you should be worried about the responsibilities being taken on by three consecutive women… unless you aren’t fairly compensated for it. Why did the guy run away screaming? Is the work undesirable or less prestigious in some way? Or is it just coincidental that he doesn’t like that particular work?

    3. AnotherAlison*

      On the other hand, women don’t always get thought of for growth opportunities, since we don’t historically have the same internal networks in male-dominated businesses that are male peers do. It sounds pretty clear that this is a technical responsibility, but I would make sure it’s a growth opportunity, too. For example, we constantly have to update and add new technical standards in the engineering consulting company I’m at. You can be assigned to be a champion of “X” standard. It’s technical, and someone might tell you it’s a good opportunity to grow your technical expertise in “X”, but project performance counts more for promotions at my company. I may advise a woman to say they were too busy, turn it down, and try to get bigger roles on the billable projects that lead to promotions.

      I think the key here is to figure out why the men are running away and the women are asking to do it. You want to make sure the important-but-not-key-to-promotion stuff is spread fairly.

      1. Jules the Third*

        +1

        I think your concern is realistic, and AnotherAlison gives a framework for analyzing how it fits.

      2. JSPA*

        No, you really can’t cut a woman out of a position of greater responsibility for reasons of gender, regardless of hypothetical indirect optics. (Said that way, it should be pretty clear, yeah?)

        This is a big part of what people mean by institutional “-isms.” And it’s why having some more people of [insert under-represented, societally less empowered group of your choice here] in positions of intermediate power does not automatically cancel out [insert corresponding flavor of “-ism” here]. You’re projecting that the majority might devalue the job because of their “-isms,” so you’re considering….beating them to the punch, with overt discrimination. That’s never a justifiable counter move. Because there’s literally no job (arguably up to and including CEO) that’s not open to this reasoning.

        You CAN speak up if there’s a pattern of greater responsibility leading only to greater time-suckage, not a better paycheck!

    4. SpaceNovice*

      Sounds like you could go to your manager and ask for another responsibility to have a backup person. If you can do that, you can train both of them! Way better optics and both get experience.

    5. Millennial Lawyer*

      I understand your concern, but if a woman has voiced that she would really like to take on that responsibility, and you insist of giving it to a man because you don’t want it to become a woman’s job… that ends up kind of backfiring on the feminist goals. So I think you have to just accept that this particular individual is speaking up. But maybe share your concern with your supervisor if you believe people aren’t taking that responsibility seriously.

    6. Chaordic One*

      I’ve seen scenarios like this. Yes, I would be a bit concerned about the appearance of things. On the surface of things it sounds like the guy you asked was kind of sexist, but I suppose it could be other things. I hate to suggest this because it seems like pandering to sexism, but maybe if you had your supervisor ask him (or tell him) he’d be more open to the idea, (because your supervisor has more authority in the matter).

    7. Samata*

      I wouldn’t worry if the duties are not the traditional housewife duties that fall to women in the office by default, not choice.

      I mean, our last 3 Medical Directors happen to have been women but I don’t think anyone sees the position’s duties as “office housework”.

    8. Specialk9*

      I’m also a woman in a male dominated job, and a small part of my brain is always analyzing to make sure I’m not shooting myself in the foot by being too girly or not girly enough. (eye roll)

      I’d be concerned too. As soon as women get associated with a job, it goes down in prestige and salary. (Secretaries, teachers, doctors, social workers, etc)

      But I’d also balance that with women giving other women opportunities. Which this could be.

      What’s your relationship like with your manager? Could you carefully say something like “I have noticed that you like to help people grow in their careers. I wanted to ask for your help. I’d like to become a manager, but I’m worried that I may be spending my extra energy on projects that don’t lead to promotions, or without realizing it signaling I’m not ready. Would you be willing to go over my projects, and suggest other projects that can help me take my career where I want it to go?” (Whether to add that 90% are men is something to weigh based on how closely your manager makes those decisions.)

  13. ThatGirl*

    We’re really stretched thin at work right now, for various reasons (people leaving, corporate sale and maternity leave has made us very short staffed) and people on my team are having to help out with other teams, which – even though I have only been here 9 months and am not the team lead – has basically made me second banana while my manager deals with higher level stuff.

    It’s kind of cool but also a lot of random problems I don’t want to deal with. And I have to kinda crack down on my coworkers screwing around, too. So. Yay responsibility?!

    (I’m also off for three days next week and it will be very telling how things go without me here to keep problems from flaring up.)

  14. Not So Super-visor*

    Email Signature Drama Round 2:
    The company finally came up with a standardized email signature this fall. Getting people to confirm that they had updated their signature was like pulling teeth. Now, we’ve updated with our new slogan, and it seems like a battle all over again. The company literally sends out a generic version of the signature and all people have to do is plug in their name, title, office, phone, and fax. All I ask for is a confirmation email showing the update. I would love to assume that people are adult enough to not ask for confirmation but considering that half of the replies have come back with font type and color changes or people trying to leave off their direct lines in lieu of the toll free number, I can’t. Having to babysit this type of minutiae makes me feel like a psycho, micro-manager, but I’m also the one who will hear from a VP or Marketing if it’s not done (and trust me, they’ll eventually complain about someone).

    1. MamaGanoush*

      OMG, I hate it when people do this! Here’s my latest version of that: University bookstore emails some of our instructors to get their book order in for fall and they complain to me. We have one textbook for all instructors, ordered by me. So, I send around request to let me know if you did or did not get the bookstore message so I can have all the info when resolving w the bookstore manager. One email to everyone, a follow-up in our staff meeting agenda please-read, a follow-up email to the people who didn’t respond the first time, another reminder in the next staff meeting agenda please-read. Today I am walking around the office to ask in person. How hard is it to to just email YES or NO???

    2. Totally Minnie*

      My employer set a standard email protocol a few years ago, but instead of making every employee change their individual signatures, they programmed the email server to pull the relevant data from our profiles and automatically populate the signature. They also disabled the “stationary” feature and reset everyone’s standard font. A lot of people were mad, but I was so happy to stop receiving emails in Comic Sans italics on a purple background with 97 inspirational quotes in the signature. :)

      1. OlympiasEpiriot*

        Yeah, this I’d what my company did when we had our new branding rollout. No one gets to adapt it at all. It also flagged people who didn’t have the correct fonts loaded on their computers.

        1. Nashira*

          It may not be technically possible depending on how your email is done. Some email hosting services restrict what you can edit or disable certain functions outright. (Looking at you, Intermedia.)

      4. Lindsay J*

        This is amazing, and I wish my company would do it.

        We’re all supposed to have the same signature, but each person has to set it up individually.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      Bribe them. “To celebrate our new slogan, we’re doing a raffle! Everyone send a email with their updated signature to this address by this date and we’ll enter you in the raffle!” (You can do things like raffle extra days off. Everyone always wants those.)

      Also, make sure to send out the notification at a time that you know people will be able to look at it and make the change, if possible. Have an All-Hands about the new slogan/branding and then send people to go make the changes. Explain the changes so that people understand why you’re doing it, but make sure not to talk down to them.

      People might have better suggestions, but these are what I can think up off the top of my head without looking to Google. But it works way better when you make it a part of teamwork and not something that people will get constantly nagged about.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I’m a big fan of bribery as a motivational tool.

        And if you can’t do days off , even a $10 gift card to Starbucks or something would probably get people to do it.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Can +1 Starbucks or a gift card to someplace local that’s popular among the staff.

    4. Iris Eyes*

      There might be some reasonable reason for the push back on the direct line thing at least.

      If you company cares about this so much surely there is a way to accomplish this with technology. If companies care so much then they should just take away customized signature abilities altogether.

    5. agmat*

      AFAIK, we don’t have an email signature policy but it drives me bonkers when coworkers don’t have a signature *at all* and we work for a government agency. Now I have to save all direct numbers instead of just referring to an email signature. It also just looks unprofessional to me if they’re communicating with the public.

    6. bumbletea*

      I swear, some people act like you’re trying to pull up their prized gardenias when you ask them to update their email signature. That was one of the biggest pains in my last role. I got an email from the CEO every time someone’s signature was off. Sometimes a drop-in. And every time, the person pitched a fit about having to change it even when I would do the work for them if they wanted. It’s a company email signature, not your myspace page circa 2005! Let go of your weird fonts, people!

      1. pleaset*

        If the CEO cares this much, draft a note from him to send to every direct report of his (or perhaps all staff0 saying this is a job requirement, that the standards are detailed in the memo below/attached to his note, and that he welcomes full compliance. Make it easy for him, but also make it clear to the organization that this is a directive.

        1. bumbletea*

          He’d send out an email occasionally reminding people, but the general vibe was “you’re responsible for this, so find a way to deal with it without me having to deal with it.” It was usually resolved by me showing up at that person’s desk if they ignored me for too long, until the next time that person decided to mess with it again. It didn’t help that we had a very particular signature that had to be created a very particular way (though it was a pretty easy way for being particular, and there was significant documentation to help). In general, most work signatures are not that involved.

    7. Elizabeth West*

      Ugh. Exjob had policies around email signatures — the number one rule was no quotes. But people put them on anyway, and a lot of them were religious because this is the Bible Belt. I don’t know how they managed not to get in trouble; protected class or not, they were violating the rules.

    8. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Like…can’t they program it in? I remember your initial comment, but not in what thread it was in – it just seems like it’d be a lot easier to have them put in their contact info and then autofill instead of forcing everyone to manually put in their sigs. (I’m not sure how big your organization is, though.)

      Maybe it’s just me, but if it’s really that important to Marketing that everything is done exactly the way they want, try to ensure that the people responsible can’t mess it up. And this isn’t on you, Not So Super-visor – you’re just the messenger. But if there’s anything I’ve learned from reading AAM, it’s that it’s really, really hard to get people to do exactly what you need them to do.

    9. only acting normal*

      My job tries to standardise all sorts of things, including email signature. But they’re hopeless on the enforcement, so no-one takes it seriously. I’ve seen plenty of comic sans here. 8-{
      Personally, I usually just roll with the program, but I *did* quietly refuse to use the 20+ line email signature block they came up with (20+ lines, I ask you!?). I edited it down so it only took up 3 lines, but kept the corporate look+feel.

      1. micromanager*

        I actually was able to fire someone as I documented their refusal to put their direct line on their email signature. Of course their were many, many, many other issues but this was physical evidence of repeated direction ignored. The proverbial straw.

    10. Specialk9*

      My company has had, oh gosh, 12 major ad campaigns that ranged from stupid to baffling (though every one of you would think of the slogan of 20 years ago). Every time they want us to
      Get!!
      Excited!!!!

      and put some giant ridiculous thing in our email (with pictures! that clutter up my phone because there are thousands of these going back and forth), so by now…

      No.

      Just no. I will use something simple and dignified, that gives my role and contact info.

      1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

        They want you to use sigs on your internal emails? With company slogans?! What kind of hellhole do you work for, so I know never to apply there?

        (I mean, I die a little inside when some of my coworkers use signatures on all their emails! I’ll only use mine – which is a little clunky; it has my name, position, project (since I have a specific project I’m in charge of), office address, direct line, and a small version of our logo – on initial emails to customers about non-routine matters. My signature’s standard for our organization.)

  15. Laura H*

    Thank y’all for the suggestions re the tax refund two open threads ago I think. Wound up buying a really nice notebook computer.

    Have a great Friday.

  16. Emma*

    Considering a pretty big career switch from nonprofit work to stage combat/fight choreography. I’m still in the research/info gathering phase, but I’m trying to get a networking meeting set up and I’m really excitrd!

    2. OperaArt*

      No advice. Just want to say that your plan sounds really exciting.
      I’ve done a small amount of stage fighting—the choreographer is so important.

      1. Emma*

        I can’t wait to learn more. I have a background in ballet/dance & theatre but not much (but also not zero!) martial arts or actual stage combat experience, so it’ll be interesting to find out how well-suited my background actually is to fight directing.

    4. A.Ham*

      That sounds awesome!
      Intimacy choreography has existed for a long time in the theater world, but a lot of theaters are getting more and more cognizant of the need for it in light of #metoo.
      Start taking classes! you can get certified in all sorts of stage combat work as a performer, then to move on to teaching. hand to hand, dagger, sword (rapier, broad sword etc. etc. etc.)
      tip: look into learning about intimacy choreography too. It’s a quite different thing but still very important to be precisely choreographed. The couple of fight directors I know have trained and started to do that kind of work as well and it has really broadened their work possibilities.

      1. Emma*

        Intimacy choreography sounds fascinating! And super important for everyone’s safety, especially in light of the nonsense in chicago a couple years ago. I’m also definitely keeping my eye out for a local stage combat class I can take!

    5. pugsnbourbon*

      You’ve probably already checked out USITT already – they have some good resources. Their annual conference was in March but I think there are other events/classes.

    6. Llellayena*

      If you’re looking for connections, a lot of areas have Renaissance Faires which use a ton of stage combat. Check out a sword-making company called Starfire (the company name changed to something else recently, but you can still find it with that). They make weapons specifically for stage combat and many of the employees have stage combat experience and connections.

  17. Read Receipts Riled*

    When is it appropriate to use ‘read receipts’?

    My team has a new big boss and he’s been fairly adversarial the few months he’s been here. One thing he does is email read receipts for just about all team emails he sends out. (Think: send me your resumes for my files; answer these questions; or ‘we’re going to have a meeting’.)

    We’re not irresponsible, we’re not slackers, we have an excellent reputation with our client, and we’re all experienced professionals. He’s brand new to both consulting and civilian life (straight out of the military) and unfortunately, he’s in charge (PM) of a bunch of experienced professionals without ever having been a civilian contractor.

    To me, an email read receipt is what you use when you don’t trust the recipient to acknowledge or respond to the email, or when a disciplinary record is being established (i.e. ‘Per our meeting, I expect X in Y’).

    Are read receipts commonly used for simple directives/requests? I’ve been a government contractor for a decade and I’ve never seen them used in this manner.
    We have many former military employees; I don’t think we can blame big boss’ overall actions and behavior on a history of order-giving from Service. Insubordination/defiance is not an issue among this team, we’ll follow whims and requests willingly and previous bosses had no trouble getting what they needed.

    1. fposte*

      On the one hand, I don’t think read receipts are ever worth doing; the risk of putting people’s backs up is much greater than the benefits, which are severely impaired by the fact that some people look at email via preview and some people have them turned off.

      On the other hand, I also wouldn’t take this personally. It’s his SOP for communication, like some people put a gooey quote in.

      1. Myrin*

        Aha, this seems like a perfect opportunity to ask about something regarding read receipts that I’ve been wondering basically since I started reading this site and saw people talk about them! (And I hope I’ll not be derailing your thread, RRR, since my curiosity has nothing to do with your situation in particular!)

        I totally didn’t get, language-wise, what a read receipt is for the longest time, so first of all, am I correct in piercing together that: It’s the pop-up thingy that, well, pops up at the top of your email which says something like “[Sender] has asked you to confirm that you got this email” and then you click “confirm”? (This sounds very awkward; I only encountered this once or twice and can only vaguely remember what it said in my native language so apologies if that doesn’t mesh at all, but I’m talking about the concept.)

        Because if so, my question: Why do people talk about them with such disdain? I mean, I get that theoretically it can feel passive-aggressive or controlling or like you’re not being trusted but outside of specific circumstances where you’re already feeling controlled and distrusted in general, I just can’t imagine reacting with more than a shrug. In fact, when I got one in the past, I didn’t think anything in particular about it other than that I was excited because I’d apparently just encountered the infamous “read receipt” people talk about on AAM! It’s one click and then I can go on with my day so I feel like I must be missing some context.

        1. Alice*

          It grinds my gears. The only person I deal with (out of hundreds of regular contacts) who uses them is neither high on our hierarchy, nor writing about important things. She also uses the “high importance” flag in Outlook for every email that she’s ever sent me, including “thank you.”

          2. disconnect*

            Ooh, I have a solution to this one. Create a new rule in Outlook, condition “marked as high importance” and from “Prima Donna”, action “mark as normal importance”. Done and done, everyone who knows how to responsibly use the importance flag can still do so, and you don’t have to look at the myriad red exclamation marks. Because nobody’s got time for that bullspit.

        2. bumbletea*

          I had a coworker once who would send a read-receipt for EVERYTHING, and then she would send follow-up replies to the receipts asking why you didn’t respond to your email when you’d read it, even though you may have received it while in the middle of something else, glanced at it, and made a note to respond later. It can feel like other people are policing your time when you may not be able to give an immediate response.

        3. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

          For a lot of people, it is considered a sign you don’t trust the recipient to acknowledge the e-mail if it’s used for routine matters. It’s like sending something in the post by certified mail – you usually only do that for official correspondence, not for birthday cards and flowers. Plus, it can make people feel a bit watched. Finally, in Outlook and Gmail at least, you have to turn them on – they’re off by default on most servers, I believe.

          So Read Receipts Riled is…err…riled by read receipts because they know that their boss is actively turning read receipts on and they’re making the assumption that their boss doesn’t trust them – which is validated by the background info. Which, based off of the other information they provide, isn’t a wholly unfounded assumption.

          Also, since I forgot to mention this in my first post: whoever hasn’t listened to it yet (but especially RRR) should REALLY look up the Why’d You Push That Button podcast, first episode – since it goes into read receipts (although it’s a social media perspective, I think the conclusions are somewhat similar to work e-mail).

      2. Kathleen_A*

        Some people just routinely use them. I have no idea why since, as fposte pointed out, they often don’t actually do what they are supposed to do. But it really does sound to me that as annoying as they are, they are not intended as an insult. This is just how this guy rolls.

        1. Annie Moose*

          Yup, used to work with a guy who just had them turned on for all of his emails. It was weird but you just sorta got used to it. Sometimes for fun I’d check the box to not send him a notification, but he never commented on it.

          I have no clue why he did it, but he did it to everybody indiscriminately of what the email content was. So I just got used to it.

          On the other hand, if a boss sends read receipts only for specific emails, so you know he’s doing it manually… well, that’s a little different.

    2. Anna*

      I’m in academia, so YMMV, but I’ve only gotten read receipts for meeting requests – e.g., we’re trying to schedule a meeting between 5 professors who have no time, and it’s somewhat time-sensitive, so whoever or scheduling will use read receipts so that we respond immediately.

    4. Q*

      I only use them when something is really important and I want to make sure the recipients received the message. A lot of my team was famous for the “I didn’t get that email” verbal response so this helps cut down on that.

    6. All Anon*

      I don’t think it’s normal to use them as an SOP. When I see somebody using a read receipt I take it as a signal that the person dropped the ball previously or this is super extra important.Maybe it’s because I was chastised for it years ago by a higher up.

    7. Discordia Angel Jones*

      I only use read receipts when I’ve been chasing someone for a while for stuff.

      Or when I want to be adversarial (which I do quite a bit: I’m a lawyer XD ).

    8. MamaGanoush*

      I wouldn’t do it when I was new to a department, but if I had frequent problems with people not following up (see my mini-rant above!) and it was impeding my ability to get important work done, I might go that route. I once had a colleague who automatically deleted every email I sent, unread. Yeah. I started using read-receipt when someone anonymously tipped me off. It was helpful to be able to document that when I got called in by the director for keeping vital info from said colleague. Long gone colleague, I should add :)

      1. Specialk9*

        Wat. Seriously?! He would delete all your emails, then complain that you didn’t send them? Did he not know that he wasn’t deleting them forever everywhere?

    9. SoCalHR*

      I hate read receipts.

      They seem a bit too ‘up in my business’ (luckily my boss doesn’t use them) and aren’t that effective. As fposte said, you could see the email in preview mode so it wouldn’t generate a read receipt or you can simply click “no” when it prompts you to send one (which I do most of the time). I also wouldn’t rely on them to ‘prove’ someone got the message (for your example of disciplinary issues), I’d want an actual reply confirming receipt.

    10. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Some of the representatives of the customer I work with (I contact a few of them) use read receipts for all communication with us. I find it a little annoying, but…

      1) confirming the read receipt takes two seconds, and it’s a couple per day if that, and
      2) on their side, we have had issues with them asking for things repeatedly after they’ve been done (like, we’ll send a photo of one of their llamas when they ask, and then they’ll ask for the same exact llama a day later – they just need verification of the llama, so the original photo should be valid).

      It’s an annoyance, but ultimately I think the best course is to acknowledge it’s one of their quirks.

      But I think this is a BEC (or maybe a BERR – boss e-mailing read receipts) because you say you think he’s hostile to the team! (Or really close – you described his relationship as adversarial.) Depending on how much you work with this man, is it worth it to stay? This sounds drastic, but there are a couple of warning signs in your letter that make it sound like there are bigger issues.

      1. Read Receipts Riled*

        Actually not that drastic anymore. Six months ago I would have rolled my eyes, but then again, six months ago I didn’t have this person/problem! I don’t work too closely with him, but he’s made my work environment worse. I’m waiting to hear if my company wins this other contract, because I’m pledged to it and it starts in June, so I really can’t leave at this point.
        (We’re contract employees, so it’s not my company that Mr. RR belongs to. If he were, his butt would be gone by now, we don’t tolerate people treating our people like that.)

        1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

          So, the main problem isn’t really the read receipts. It’s a symptom of the fact that Fergus sucks and possibly isn’t going to change. But it also sounds like Fergus might not be your problem anymore in a month or two, so…hopefully, you can tolerate it for that long? And hopefully Fergus learns that he doesn’t need to micromanage going forward, although I hold out less hope for that.

          1. Read Receipts Riled*

            There’s about 20% of a chance the June Job would happen, but it might be delayed even if it happens…basically I can’t jump ship from Job A because Job B ‘might’ happen, plus Job A’s current contract ends in August…it’s a hot contract-y mess.

            1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

              Okay, so three or four months. It’s…still not a long time, thankfully.

              Specialk9 is far more knowledgeable about your probable situation than I am, though, so take their advice! But again, it might actually be easier to just deal with your jerk boss because you’re going to be rid of him by August at the latest (hopefully, unless the contract renews and then you might have issues).

        2. Specialk9*

          Oh so Bad Boss is a Fed? (If so is he the Contracting Officer it COTR?) Or he is a contractor, who manages the contract you subcontract to?

          I had a Fed boss once who was being a raging a-hole. Because he wasn’t the COTR, I was able to give the COTR an unofficial heads up, and the behavior stopped. That was an unusually decent set of Feds though.

          If he’s a contractor, you totally can make waves! Far more than if he’s a Fed. Go as a group to your PM or senior managers at your company and lay out what he’s doing. You guys have reputations as solid even keeled workers, and this guy is new – they’re going to buy that he’s the problem. Senior managers can go back to the other company’s senior managers and make a stink.

    11. SpaceNovice*

      Read receipts for standard messages are jerk moves. Since he’s new, he may not know this. Is there a good manager who can sit his butt down and tell him to dial it back? This isn’t the military, and he’s obviously not been given good advice on how things work. You’re a team. A unit. Professional adults and not young recruits that you gotta pull teeth to get to do things, perhaps. He’s trying to prove himself obviously, but he’s definitely going about it the wrong way. Dude needs to relax and learn to work together instead of giving orders all the time.

    12. Iris Eyes*

      All messaging platforms these days seem to have auto read receipts, you can see that someone has opened them. I wouldn’t find the presence of the read receipt annoying, more so that its even necessary in the first place.

    13. Eye Rolling Bookkeeper*

      I use them regularly for payment notices and requests. When people call asking where their payment is, I reconfirm their address and ask if they received my email. I already know they did and I ask them to look it up. It usually cures them by the second phone call.

      But, I am in a very different situation from Ex military. Although, admittedly I don’t trust people to read their email.

      1. Read Receipts Riled*

        I could totally see using them for payment related stuff. That’s fine, it’s the routine team requests that kill me. I feel like a read receipt request says, “I don’t trust you to read and act on this email and I want a record that proves you received my email (so in the future I can make a case against you).

        1. Eye Rolling Bookkeeper*

          Well, that is exactly why I use it and in your circumstances I would be riled up too.

          It could honestly be that he doesn’t know appropriate uses for read receipts, but if he is so high up the food chain you many never find out anyway.

          I think I checked the box that all read receipts automatically send, so the message doesn’t come up again.

    14. Susan K*

      I hate read receipts and I rarely see them. There was one guy in my department who used to use them for just about every e-mail, but he stopped several months ago (I wonder if his manager told him to stop). It’s hard not to get offended even if you know it’s not personal, like my coworker who sent them for everything, and your new boss, but you probably just have to accept that this is how he operates and try not to let it bother you too much. He probably has it set up as an automatic setting for all e-mails, and depending on how tech-savvy he is, he might not even realize recipients can see the read receipts.

    15. Aurion*

      Law uses them (ideally the client actually would respond when you write “please confirm receipt of this email”, but a read receipt is a failsafe). Outside of law I haven’t seen them used very often.

      1. Natalie*

        I’m not sure it actually is a fail safe? Outlook always gives me the option to not send one, I would assume other email clients have a similar option.

        1. Aurion*

          It’s not the only thing I’d rely on, it’s just an extra bonus. If I have an upcoming deadline and must wait for instructions, I’d still follow up before deadline if I haven’t received those instructions whether or not I requested or received a read receipt. A receipt is just a bit of extra cover-my-butt if anyone goes “why didn’t you tell me?!?” and I can reply “I called you about this twice, sent emails on dates X, Y, and Z, and had read receipts confirming you saw the message”. Multiple reminders alone should cover my butt, but having receipts is a bit of extra.

          I imagine law isn’t the only place you see this kind of behaviour (project managers probably do it too).

      2. Triple Anon*

        Yes! Law, media – fields that are fast paced and require a lot of documentation. It can be an industry-specific thing.

    16. Marzipan*

      Our email system lets you decline to send the receipt even though the person has set the request for one. I invariably do this (and then email them a reply immediately instead), just because it pisses me off so much that they’ve requested one. (It’s rare, in my workplace, for anyone to request one and it definitely reads as mistrusting us when we do get one.)

      1. Workerbee*

        I’ve done that in OldCompany–and I always did wonder if the person who had sent the RR and received a reply from me with no RR was ever puzzled. :)

    17. lulu*

      there are people who use them as a default. I find it annoying, but I don’t take it personally.

    18. Evil HR Person*

      Honestly? I think he set up his email that way without meaning to, and now every email he sends requires a read-receipt. If your office uses Outlook, it’s a bona fide default that you can check/uncheck. I wouldn’t read much into it. He’s probably all kinds of perplexed why he’s getting all these read receipts that he now has to constantly erase.

      1. Triple Anon*

        Right. Ideally someone should say something to him about it. Not in a critical way. Just ask about his reasons for using them. Then if it’s not intentional, he can ask how to turn that feature off.

    19. Kittymommy*

      I’ve done read receipts before and it had nothing to do with the recipient, it was all about showing my boss that they received it. Incredibly stupid and a complete waste of time and clutter, but it was easier than following every email up with a phone call.

    20. Bea*

      I never hit the button that sends them, since it requires my effort to do so. What happens when he doesn’t receive them? Maybe he’s just using the feature but not sure why it exists.

    21. disconnect*

      In Outlook at least, you can automatically deny sending a read receipt (File -> Options -> Mail -> Tracking -> For any message received that includes a read receipt request…).

    22. Jadelyn*

      Some people just do that – they have it default to requesting read receipts. Annoying, but if it’s a blanket thing it’s probably just How He Is.

    23. antwione*

      I don’t think they’re ever useful. Since the other person has to actively click “yes” or whatever, they could simply read the e-mail and choose not to send you a receipt. I actually do that fairly often.
      We made the switch from an old e-mail system to Outlook a few years ago, and the old system had built-in read receipts in the sense that you could go into a sent message’s properties and see whether the recipient had opened it or not. People slowly realized that Outlook didn’t have the capability, and IT advised anyone who asked/complained that they could set it up so that they automatically send a read receipt request with every message. So a lot of people have that set up. It doesn’t bother me, but I sort of laugh about it. I usually click “no” on the pop-up that asks whether I want to send a read receipt, since I’d rather have them thinking I’m super behind on my messages than monitoring how long it takes me to respond.

    24. JSPA*

      Gmail went nonfunctional for an hour or so on April 11th (as in, I was talking to people on the phone while trying to send or receive on multiple devices, from them, without success). I missed several important (though not work related) emails that could have added up to some very bad news. (Tax-related being only one of several problems). My old institutional email and my spouses’s current one both tend to send messages from and to the IT department, to the spam box–after a couple of days in limbo, no less.

      I can see someone who’s been burned by outages becoming super-proactive about making sure messages have gotten through. (And if he’s military, a lost message could literally end up meaning fire and destruction.)

      You could bring it up as a point of guidance. Ask if he’s worried about computer glitches, and whether he’d like all of you to also use receipt confirmation in your emails to him, to each other, etc. That should clarity whether it’s a power play or an excess of caution, without raising too many hackles.

      1. Nothing in the middle of the road but dead armadillos*

        Eh, if it’s that important that the email go through, email isn’t the right communications medium.

  18. Robert*

    Hi, I posted this last week but I didn’t get too many responses so I’m trying again. I apologize if this is disruptive.

    I’ve been thinking about what some commenters on AAM have said about “good reference checkers.” Specifically, when reference checkers contact people outside of the candidate’s reference list they provided.

    I’m worried about that because I have a past boss who actively dislikes me. I made a discrimination complaint to HR, and later on I caught him lying about me to a company I was interviewing with. The company where I worked under him has a formal “no references” policy in their handbook and is in a very conservative industry, so HR formally reprimanded him.

    My concern is that a “good reference checker” could dig his name up and contact him in a back channel manner, without knowing about our history. I’m worried that if he thinks he can get away with it, he’ll lie about me again to screw me out of a job. I’d be worried in this scenario that the company that passed on me wouldn’t tell me there they talked to him.

    Is this possible or am I worrying too much? Should I warn companies at the reference check stage that I had to report my boss at Job X for unethical conduct and he was disciplined (technically true, but leaving out the fact that it was for violating the company handbook’s rules), or would that sound suspicious?

    1. Washi*

      How many jobs ago was this position and how long were you there? I would only go looking for an additional reference if I noticed a candidate had, say, been in a position for 5 years only two jobs ago, but didn’t have a reference from them and had a weird explanation of why.

      1. Robert*

        Unfortunately, this was my longest stint and was fairly recent (4 years, 3 years ago). Also, I have a reasonable suspicion that the boss who got busted for lying went on to smear me with the rest of the department. I reached out to the person I reported to before the liar boss, and he sent a very terse email saying he’s no longer comfortable with being a reference for me. Plus a few of the other people in the department unfriended me or removed me off of LinkedIn.

        1. Washi*

          Ugh, that’s tough. I think 1) a lot of jobs don’t even check references, let alone look for additional ones and 2) if they do end up in contact with him, it could end up coming down to how strong your other references are and how good a liar your ex boss is. If you have a bunch of great references and then your old boss giving vague criticisms, it probably won’t matter that much. If your references are meh and then your old boss has specific, substantive criticism, that could hurt you.

          I actually think it’s more likely that you’ll get questions about why you don’t have a reference for that job than reference checkers who suddenly decide to dig up your old boss’s contact info, so I would focus on preparing for that. Good luck!

          1. Robert*

            Yeah. For what it’s worth, a lot of what we talk about on AAM as best practices doesn’t happen most of the time in the real world, unfortunately (or fortunately, in a case like this). But if it pans out this way, my future livelihood is on the line, so I think my worrying isn’t complete disaster thinking.

            If they asked I’d probably say “I can give you HR, but that’s it. I left Previous Company because my boss was engaged in some unethical practices, and they didn’t close that investigation until after I joined Current Company.”

            1. Rhymetime*

              I actually think this is an appropriate answer. I was once asked in an interview why I left a job that I’d been in for many years. I explained that toward the end, there was a manager who was so difficult that it involved litigation. I think it raised their respect for me, and I think that could be the case in your situation as well. If you say you can’t give a reference there because they were unethical, they’re inclined to see you as an ethical person and that’s a plus.

              1. Rhymetime*

                Meaning the company had to get legal counsel to rid themselves of the problem manager.

        2. Nita*

          I have thankfully never dealt with this, but a family member had the misfortune of having a back-biting boss. We’ll never know if this boss got contacted for references, but the job search was much harder than it should have been with their qualifications, so we suspect that the boss sank at least a few potential jobs. I think I’d warn possible employers, but maybe not in these exact terms. Somehow “I reported my boss” sounds scarier than “This boss has a habit of taking a personal dislike to people and giving them undeserved negative references, and has been in trouble with HR over it. If you contact him I expect a very poor reference, but I hope you will be able to weigh that against my other references.”

          1. Robert*

            I get where you’re coming from, but I worry that saying that my boss at the company I was at the longest just dislikes me would make potential employers concerned.

            Maybe “I was interviewed as part of an investigation into my boss at Old Job. He’s likely to give me a negative reference because of that.” It’s completely true, even though I’m dancing around saying what the investigation was for.

            1. Lindsay J*

              I like this wording. It gives a sense of why he would give a bad reference, but it seems less dramatic somehow than bringing the unethical behavior into it up-front.

            2. rldk*

              That sounds like a good explanation – you could even add something him going against the company no refs policy, to make it clear that you’re not trying to cover up, but that his actions are unprofessional.
              Especially if there’s a interview question about dealing with difficult situations, you might be able to segue into how you value integrity/honesty even in situations like that one, and despite knowing that he has shown himself willing to criticize you unfairly, you still know your actions were correct.

            3. General Ginger*

              I think this is reasonable wording. It’s very simple, factual, and doesn’t bring up any specific drama.

    2. Future Analyst*

      I’ve worried about this too in the past, and my general feeling is that someone who is a good reference checker will weigh his input against all the others (so if he’s the only one saying you’re terrible, they’ll note that), AND, if they truly are good reference checkers, they will note what he has to say, then ask you about anything that they found concerning (thus giving you a chance to explain). So, all-in-all, I don’t think it would be a huge issue. [That said, I know how hard it is to let go of that worry!]

      1. TootsNYC*

        There’s also the hope that if the bad former boss is too vehement, he won’t sound credible.

    3. MK*

      Definitely don’t want them; it’s an overreaction to something that might never happen, gives an overly dramatic tone to the interview and might even prompt what you are hoping to avoid, them contacting him. I realize this isn’t particularly reassuring, but there isn’t much you can do about this.

      For what it’s worth, good reference checkers don’t blindly believe references, especially one bad reference among many positive ones. Also, how far in the past is this? It’s unlikely that anyone will call a manager from four jobs in the past.

      1. Robert*

        So the problem is that this is a well known company that I spent a good amount of time at in my industry (2012-2015). It’s my longest stint.

        I wouldn’t bring it up in the interview. The worst case scenario I’m envisioning is a little like this:

        1. I pass all of the company’s interviews, so the hiring manager or HR tells me they’d like to make an offer contingent on requests.
        2. I don’t have a reference outside of HR for this company, so I have to give them. This is the point where I’m considering explaining that I had to be a whistleblower on my boss.
        3. HR/hiring manager looks up managers from my department, finds him, and contacts him.
        4. He lies about me.
        5. I get rejected without explanation, because potential new company doesn’t want to get entangled in legal drama.

        1. MamaGanoush*

          I wonder if you can add in with #2 that this company has strict policy of no-references?

        2. Happy Lurker*

          I would be inclined to go with a version of #2. I am not sure how I would say it.

          I would also strongly encourage you to find additional managers and reach out to ask if they would be a reference. Either at the company in question or a previous one to replace it.

          Somehow the boss has turned others against you, so does it become whistle blower on your department instead of your boss? Maybe that is how to present it to interviewers.

          1. Robert*

            “Somehow the boss has turned others against you, so does it become whistle blower on your department instead of your boss?”

            This isn’t a mystery to me. I can see him saying something like “after he left I found out Robert made some huge mistakes with his work and we need to redo some big project,” or claiming I said nasty things about my former coworkers in my exit interview. This wouldn’t be hard to do to a departed employee and it’s not clear cut retaliation like lying to a reference checker about someone who made a discrimination complaint.

            Another alternative is to contact my boss’s boss. When my boss was reprimanded for lying about me, it was by my boss’s boss along with HR. The worst he could say is no, right?

            1. JessicaC*

              This sounds like a really good option! If your former boss’s boss is on your side, you could list him as your reference and then he could explain the whole situation.

              1. Robert*

                I don’t know that he’s really on my side, so to speak. I know that after I reported my boss’s lying about me to HR, my boss’s boss and the vice president of HR formally disciplined him. Obviously I don’t know any more details.

                Keep in mind that this was a few years ago, and that my boss’s boss and my boss (the liar) were friendly before that. My boss’s boss was openly skeptical of my discrimination complaint. On the other hand, my old boss hasn’t been promoted since that incident, and before that he was a rising star in the company. Just a guess, but his lying could’ve been seen as not serious enough to fire him given his previous good standing, but questionable enough to cut his ascension through the ranks. They might not want to put him in charge of 10-15 people after this happened when he was a junior manager of 3 people.

                I think the worst that could happen is that my boss’s boss says no or doesn’t respond when I contact him. He’s a lifer at the company, so that limits who he’ll possibly talk to about me a bit, and possibly means he’s not friends with my boss, since my boss opened the company up to a retaliation claim.

                1. Eye Rolling Bookkeeper*

                  Boss’s Boss sounds like the best bet. At least he doesn’t have an ax to grind. Even if he cannot speak to the detail of your work, at least he can be a boss that confirms you were there.

                  I do have to admit, that I have received less and less reference checks over the years and when I have done them, people seem genuinely surprised to receive them.

                  I wish you the best of luck with your situation and I hope you find something great soon.

            2. Jesca*

              How long ago did you leave this job? Also, I am pretty sure AAM actually covered this type of situation before. I cannot find the link, because I am terrible at finding those. Maybe someone else can find it?! This can be a unfortunate drawback to whistle-blowing when the employer decides not to fire the person! I mean you know of two occasions yourself where he behaved extremely unethical. I am sorry you have to deal with it from one past whistle-blower to another.

              I will still try to find that link for you, because I thought it was excellent advice!

              1. Robert*

                Thanks for that! The potential case where someone tracks him down and he says something atrocious about me, so they decide to pass worries me. I don’t think it’s as likely, because he’s already been caught doing it once. A second time would probably get him fired with no reference (i.e. “ineligible for rehire” in his personnel file), burning every bridge left at that company.

                On the other hand, I got a couple of notifications on LinkedIn that he and one of the people who removed me on Facebook have viewed my profile. So he could be feeling vengeful. I’m also looking right now, so it’s worrying to consider that I might be back on his radar.

                Part of me wants to directly contact him and ask if we can somehow bury the hatchet, but I really doubt that’ll be of any use. And honestly, he put himself in that situation.

        3. Specialk9*

          The answer you’re getting is that your ex boss has way less power over your future than you fear. And with every job you work, he’ll have even less power.

          When we deal with someone like this, who’s rotten and shakes our beliefs in people, and who tries to retaliate, it’s easy to build them to be bigger than they are. Let him be a life lesson far in your rearview mirror.

          1. Robert*

            Wow, you said that very elegantly.

            The issue I face is that when he comes up in some form, I return to the mindset I had when I worked for him. I was very worried about keeping under the radar so he wouldn’t antagonize me.

            The method to fix that is to be mindful of exactly what you said. Thank you.

    4. Irene Adler*

      One thing a good ref checker does is contact more than one reference. This is especially true with the outside references.

      Yes, they know that someone you did not include on your reference list could be someone who will trash you (for whatever reason). So if they come across such a reference, they make a point to contact additional references to either justify the ugly or supply positive reviews of your/your performance. And bad boss becomes the outlier. Certainly before the company loses interest in you, they might ask why the one reference gave such a negative response. Hence, you get an opportunity to explain things.

      The company has an interest in you. They’ve invested time/resources vetting you out. They like what they’ve seen. So before they drop you, they are going to go to the trouble of finding out why one guy gave a negative reference.

      So be ready with your explanation of things. Just be sure to be the “bigger” person here and keep it as professional as you can.

      1. Just Griping*

        This makes sense to me. I think I’m excessively worried about a hiring manager dropping me like a sack of potatoes because when my old boss comes up, I start thinking like he was my boss again and worry about him antagonizing me and having power over my career. What you’re saying about reference checkers reaching out for some sort of confirmation because the company’s already invested in me rings true.

        I think the “I was interviewed as part of an investigation into OldBoss at OldJob. Since then he has had a grudge against me” line is more professional. This is dropping the reason (discrimination claim from me), but I think giving a whole story (true or not) about my boss doing something wrong would seem less professional. I don’t like him, but I want to move on with my life.

    5. Lindsay J*

      Well, a good reference checker would take into account that his review was wildly out of line with what all the other references said, and hopefully discount him because of that.

      If I talk to 5 people, and they all mention someone has a problem with organization, they probably have a huge problem with organization.

      If everyone I talk to says that a person is the nicest, most conscientious person on the face of the earth, but one person says that they were rude, insubordinate, and out of line, either A. that reference is lying. B. There was something else at play that hasn’t come up in any other situation – maybe a personality conflict, maybe some sort of medical or personal problem that has since resolved, etc. Either way, I’m not putting much stock in it and most definitely not tanking the candidate’s chances because of it.

      At most, I would call the candidate, say that I talked to that person, and ask the candidate what they thought that person might say about them and why.

      I honestly wouldn’t worry about it. I also wouldn’t preemptively bring up the info at any point. The vast majority of people don’t call people outside of the listed people, and many companies actually don’t call any at all. Preemptively bringing it up when you haven’t listed him as a reference to begin with is just drawing attention to something that the potential employer most likely wouldn’t notice anyway. If they don’t call off-list references they might think it’s weird you’re mentioning it at all. And it puts the idea of drama in their heads which you don’t want there.

      1. smoke tree*

        I’m also inclined to think that any reference checker who’s conscientious enough to dig into references apart from what the candidate provided is probably also going to approach a bogus reference with some skepticism. I’d think that if that boss makes claims that are totally out of line with what your other references are saying, the employer would likely check in with you to see if you could shed any light on it. In terms of giving them a heads up, I would probably only mention it if the employer asks why you didn’t include a reference for that job, and you’d want to be careful to phrase it in the most neutral, matter-of-fact way you can.

        1. Robert*

          I ran into my boss from the job before that a few days ago. He gave me a big hug and said “the door is open for you to come back anytime,” so I think that covers it.

          Right now, due to him telling everyone still at the department negative things about me (I suspect, posted upthread about a few people unfriending me after I left and told HR about the lying to a hiring manager) I’d have to put HR. If someone asks why, I’ll explain it like this: “I was interviewed by a lawyer as part of an investigation into my boss at Old Job, so I’m concerned he has a grudge against me and wouldn’t tell you the truth. HR can confirm my title, dates of employment, and last title.”

          1. Binky*

            I wouldn’t use the word grudge. Maybe just say “I was interviewed as part of an investigation into my boss at Old Job, and as a result I don’t believe he’d be able to give an objective reference. HR can confirm…”

          2. JSPA*

            Um, look. If you’re talking about how unethical your boss was, and how he hates you, and how you had to turn him in, and how his badmouthing was enough to turn everyone else against you, and how he was EVIL for giving you a bad reference instead of no reference…you’re going to shaft yourself worse than a bad reference old boss ever could. Boss’s motivation is open to conjecture; your own words are your own, and you own them.

            Please have the sense to put down your jousting lance and play it cool. Because, as you present it–passionately and as if it were yesterday, not four years ago–your explanation brings up the specter of a whole bunch of problem traits.

            It says, “I’m still upset about something from 4 years ago. And I’m spending mental bandwidth looking for evidence of internet stalking. Maybe I’m not very good at letting go of things when it’s time to let go.”

            It says, “either I’m wrong about everyone there now hating me, which means don’t trust myself and others…or else I’m right and they do all hate me, which means that the word of someone who was disciplined for unethical behavior is stronger and more persuasive than people’s own experience of having worked with me, and the body of work I left behind.”

            It says, “I could be a drama lama or have a chip on my shoulder.”

            It says, “If I believe, for Reasons, that someone’s going to stab me in the back, I’ll consider it fair game to stab them in their back, first.” (That’s a huge red flag, right? You see that?)

            It also kind of says, “I’m a bit high strung, a bit shell-shocked by life experience, or both. As a result, I’m a worst case scenario sort of person. Furthermore, under building tension, I’m susceptible to shooting myself in the foot (if nobody else does it first).” Depending on the job, that may or may not be a big issue, but it’s not going to be a positive.

            It says, “please wonder if I perhaps see the world and the people in it, in harsh shades of RIGHT or WRONG. Consider whether I see myself as a helpless-thus-blameless warrior for RIGHT, forced to take action by Circumstances.” (There are jobs that are built for people who see only 100% right or 100% wrong. But honestly, that you’d feel glad about someone losing their job for giving you a bad reference twice–a reference that they may very well be making in good faith, because they’re not required to see you, the way that you see you?–that registers as vindictive. Nobody really wants to hire someone whose favorite dish is revenge, served cold. )

            The situation literally says, “someone did something so unethical I HAD to blow the whistle, but they didn’t fire the guy, so you should wonder how unethical the guy was, in the first place.” (Note: you cannot forestall this by going into detail about the ethical lapse.)

            It literally does not matter that not one of these questions necessarily means that you ARE problematic as an employee. They are emotionally loud, anxiety-creating questions that you do not want floating around in an interviewer’s mind.

            For that matter, you probably don’t want these things chewing away in your mind. You don’t have the right to control how everyone you’ve worked with, sees you. Focus on the future, when you’ll make a priority of being thoughtful, compassionate, proportionate in your responses, and less anxiety-ridden version of you. If you don’t see a clear path to that point–regardless of what bad boss may say–find a way to do a few sessions of CBT-type therapy, and get some tricks to pull your mind out of the “bad boss” mindset.

            1. Robert*

              This is a really strange and dramatic response. Telling someone they need mental health services because they asked for help to prevent a repeat of a previous bad workplace experience is almost offensive – not to mention that armchair diagnosing other people is explicitly against the rules on this site.

              I’ve had other encounters with this person since I left the company we worked together at, which is why I’m asking for help. I didn’t give the full story because a) it’s not relevant and b) it’s too much for people to care to read. The guy in question has been repeatedly checking out my LinkedIn profile and I’m looking for a job, so it’s on my mind. I’m not kept up at night by thoughts of him coming to my office’s lobby to hand out pamphlets on how much I suck. I hope that he has a long and happy life, and that it doesn’t involve me at all.

              I won’t be responding further due to how strange and aggressive your message was, but in the future you’ll likely get better responses by not hypothesizing that other people on this site are horribly plagued by negative thoughts and incapable of relaxing, just waiting for you to save them.

    6. Cowgirlinhiding*

      You should go to your former companies HR department and let them know he is giving out bad references that are preventing you from receiving job offers. Tell them if it doesn’t stop you are going to file a lawsuit.

    7. Momofpeanut*

      Why don’t you ask a friend to call the former boss seeking a reference and see what he says? It is very possible you are worrying unnecessarily.

      1. I See Real People*

        I’ve done this once. Works beautifully, and eases the mind to know what would be said about you in reference.

  19. Avengers Assemble*

    After a year and a half of desperate job searching to get out of a truly miserable job, I got New!Job, and have now been here over a year. It’s not a dream job, I don’t see myself staying here for a decade like most of my coworkers have, but I am enjoying it for the time being, if nothing else than it’s not Old!Job. But I still find myself browsing through job applications.

    I haven’t applied to anything, haven’t even updated my resume with New!Job yet, but I’ll still find myself looking through job apps nearly every other month. I can’t figure out if it’s just a hold-over from my desperate search, when every spare moment of my life was for finding the next application to apply to; or if I’m actually really wanting to leave New!Job already, which I don’t feel like I do right at this very moment. I do want to think about my next step from here, especially because I have several paths I could take next in terms of jobs, but my thinking is not geared towards ‘If I want that job, I need to look up this certification or volunteer at this place for a foot in the door’. That thinking would make sense.

    Instead I’m just browsing around the open position lists. Has anyone else been stuck in a loop like this? Any ideas for breaking free or putting it to good use at least?

    1. Future Analyst*

      Take up a new hobby! It’s hard to get out of that habit, but I think that if you’re idly looking for jobs all the time, you’ll feel burned out on the process if/when you really do want to get a new job. Save that mental energy for something else, and get back to looking for a job when you truly want to get a new one.

    2. Q*

      I’m in a similar position. I was unemployed for about 9 months and finally got an offer for an acceptable position. Its not my dream job and it doesn’t pay nearly what I would like it to but its a job and gives me healthcare so here I sit. I’ve only been here 2 months but I still have all my job searches open and active and I can’t stop myself from continuing to look. I guess in my case I keep hoping something better will come along.

    3. epi*

      I don’t think there is really anything wrong with this, unless it’s bothering you or taking your time away from other things.

      It can be really beneficial to keep an eye on what’s out there even if you aren’t actively looking. Having needed to job search in a hurry once before, I wasted a lot of my time developing a sense of what places doing the most hiring in my field, what similar jobs I would be a good fit for, what accomplishments other employers were going to care about, and what kind of money I should expect. I think my first 2-3 weeks of applications were just for practice, looking back at them they embarrassed me.

      Over time, I bet you will find yourself looking at ads less and less, or getting through them more quickly. If it helps you, maybe start a list of useful stuff you *are* learning from these ads, like skills you want or employers that hire a lot, and see if knowing you already have the information lessens the need to constantly look for more.

      1. Bostonian*

        I agree with this! It’s totally normal to look at what’s out there, especially since this is happening every other month and not every day/every week.

        I also kept looking at open positions even after I landed my current job (which I love). I think I was also stuck in “search” mode. The frequency definitely died down over time.

    4. Specialk9*

      I set an alert on LinkedIn, and then check weekly. This has been true most of my career, irrespective of the job or job satisfaction. The average time with a company these days is 3 years. People end up on both sides of that range, but generally speaking you increase salary with changing positions, especially early in your career.

    5. TootsNYC*

      After I get new glasses, I always run around looking at other people’s specs. And once I splurged on a nice suit and then spent the next year crossing the street to look at suits in the windows of clothing shops.

  20. Lymon Zerga*

    Does anyone have any good recommendations for privacy screens/blinds/other devices for office door windows?

    I’ve been back at work for a little over a month now since having my baby, and I’ve been pumping in a little-used conference room. However, little-used doesn’t mean NEVER used, and I find that I am occasionally interrupted, have to boot people out of their meetings, etc., and I’ve decided I’d really be more comfortable pumping in my office. However, my door has (non-standard sized) windows that look out into the hallway, so obviously I’d need to do something about that. I’m wondering if there’s a privacy window cling-type option out there that I’m not aware of? I’ve found a couple possibilities through a rudimentary Google, but I’m hopeful that someone has had first-hand experience with a solution to this.

    1. fposte*

      There are blinds you can stick up with suction cups, which seem like they’d be perfect. (Or you could just festively wrap posterboard and tape that up.)

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        While this does sound like a great suggestion, my own personal experience with suction cups has me shaking my head and going, “Don’t doooooooooo iiiiiiiitttttt!” Extra tape on those cups for good measure.

      2. Admin of Sys*

        I like the posterboard idea!

        There are frosted window films at most big home repair shops (lowes, home depot, etc). You can also get blinds or curtains or whatever and hang them up by using the big hooks you can attach to the wall and then peel off later, instead of installing actual curtain rod hooks.

        And if you want to get a bit crafty, you could get decorative paper, tape the top and bottom over a dowel, and then hang those up with the hooks – you end up with a paper-screen type affect. (this is how I blocked off the giant sidelights in my home)

      3. Specialk9*

        I just use frosted window film on all my lower windows. It started when nursing but continues now because I run from the shower to the laundry room or such. Home Depot or Lowe’s or Amazon.

        I’ve also heard of using liquid starch and fabric, or even contact paper.

        1. Getting Lit*

          Clear contact paper 100% works. It still lets light in but obscured any details. It’s easy to install and remove and it’s also very cheap.

    2. TCO*

      If you want the privacy cover to be removable when you’re not pumping, I’d suggest a couple of Command hooks and some kind of curtain you can hang up between the hooks. This could be as simple as cutting a couple of holes in an old towel, pillowcase, etc. for the hooks to go through. It won’t be fancy, but it will be easy and removable.

      If your door is designed in the right way, a tension curtain rod and a curtain could also do the trick, but that would require being able to fit a curtain rod inside the window frame–not sure how your door is designed.

      1. TCO*

        If you have a real curtain that would fit your door, the other option would be to hang the curtain on a little dowel rod between two Command hooks for a slightly nicer look that’s still easy to put up and down.

      2. epi*

        Command actually makes removable hooks specifically for hanging curtains. They’re called Curtain Call and there are probably other brands as well. They look nice! I have been meaning to put some up in my home since I rent.

        A reasonably nice looking rod and curtain are pretty cheap from e.g. Target. That is probably the way I would go.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      A co-worker at my last job simply taped up some paper. The actual name for it eludes me, but it’s white, comes on a roll, and people sometimes wrap packages with it. (Wow, I am sooo out of it today.) That way, light could get in but no one would see, and she just locked the door while she pumped.

      1. Admin of Sys*

        You can usually find rolls of white paper in craft stores, and sometimes office supply stores. You can look either in the wedding isle (for wrapping paper) or in the art supplies section – craft paper rolls for kids, they’re usually for table-top art sessions.

    4. Sandra Dee*

      Not office door related – but similar solution. I had windows along side my front door at my house, long, narrow skinny ones, and my dogs would go ape crazy over kids walking to the bus stop, people walking down the street, mail man, garbage man, invisible man, etc, and curtains were not a good solution. I bought some of the window cling things at Lowes, and cut to fit the windows. It let in light, but you could not see clearly through it. I have also seen them in a stained glass pattern too, in all kinds of sizes. Search for “window film privacy” on amazon. You will see all kinds of options, and most can be cut to fit.

      1. epi*

        This is a great product. There are a lot of options that will look like different patterns of frosted or etched glass and let light in without letting anyone see anything.

    5. IvyGirl*

      Congratulations – and love your username.

      They sell privacy window clings – think like opaque plastic contact paper, but static cling, not sticky. You can get it at Home Depot, Lowe’s, Target. And – also at Staples.

      Depending on the size of your company, they might have to actually provide this for you. Check with your HR to see if it can be ordered – and so that they are Federally compliant if in the US.

    6. HisGirlFriday*

      FWIW, I just taped printer paper over my non-standard window in my office door, then closed the door when I needed to pump. I never had a problem. Obviously, if your windows are huge, that’s not going to work.

    7. Indie*

      At my school we’ve got little Velcro tabs around the frames and in my drawer is a folded up black sheet which velcros over the glass which we would use in case of a shooter on campus.

      Or you could use my travel tip: dental floss, tacks, and a sarong usually gives you window coverage on the fly. When I was backpacking the bathroom had a full length glass panel into the shared corridor!

    8. Stephern*

      Paper blinds would also work. They come in a large size and you cut them down to the size of the window; tape comes already attached to the top. They also come with clips so you can roll the blinds up and clips the ends if you want to see out of your window again.

    9. SoCalHR*

      what about command strip hooks on the door and then just throw up a little curtain (not sure how crafty you are, buy just go buy a panel of thick-ish fabric from a fabric store) when you need it covered and take it down when you’re done. Sounds like that would be pretty easy??

    10. Lymon Zerga*

      Wow–I never thought about taping up paper in the windows! (That’s me, always looking for a high-tech solution to a low-tech problem…) This is really clever. Also, I’m now envisioning going wrapping paper shopping and turning it into Privacy with a side dish of Decoration! You guys are so clever.

    11. Purplerains*

      If you want it to be “permanent” until you’re done pumping, search “window clings for privacy” on Amazon. Lots of options to choose from. You can even just do half or 3/4 of the window so you’re not blocking out all of the light if you want to.

      1. Annie Moose*

        It sounds like she has one (a conference room) but feels bad about kicking people out of it and so is seeking an alternate solution.

    13. NewBoss2016*

      At one point I had a small magnetic curtain rod that was made to stick to doors, and a small blackout curtain to go on the rod. It could be pulled off any time, but was nice enough to leave it on there full-time. I got them both at Walmart.

    15. aNon*

      I’ve used gift wrap and just do a double layer. Single layer still let people be able to see light and movement and I was having private employee performance discussions where I didn’t want anyone to see anything that might hint at who was in the office. And also I wanted to hide out occasionally and that’s hard when they can tell someone is in there if I move.

    16. JSPA*

      If it’s a ferrous metal door, you can stick anything up with magnets. (OK, that’s obvious, but I’m mentioning anyway.)

      If a film can be up the whole time (not on/off), the “artscape” line (available at HomeDepot) go on with water, stay up for as many months or years as you wish, and come off with water. Pick a design that doesn’t have a few “semi clear” inserts.

      If it has to be on/off and you’re not allowed to put hooks in the door, fabric with a dowel pocket at each end can be draped over the door. Make it double length, so that it balances. Place or toss it over the top of the door, close the door to pin it. This only works if the only windows are in the door itself, but it can work for even the largest windows.

      If the window in inset fairly deeply in the door, try foam board or rigid honeycomb plastic posterboard cut to fit tight, with strapping tape pull-tabs to remove.

      A bit wasteful, but if you need something that will work RIGHT NOW, and the window’s pretty tiny, blue painter’s tape should work. (Not the super-release stuff; the regular blue tape. It comes in wide. Leave a doubled over tab for ease of removal.)

  21. Weird But True!*

    Can I ask a coworker to not leave a bowl of gum out on her desk?

    I know this is going to be a weird question but it has been driving me mad. One of my coworkers has recently been leaving a bowl of gum out on her desk, like some people do a candy bowl. The thing is that I hate gum chewing. I don’t just mean as an annoying pet peeve, I mean I basically have misophonia, A fear of chewing sounds. I can tolerate it when people are actually eating but gum chewing, chewing an object for no nourishment purpose, drives me nuts. And don’t even get me started on people who snap or crack their gum. But it truly is not just a small annoyance; my skin crawls and I have flee the area of gum chewers.

    The main problem is that my direct boss/supervisor is a frequent taker from the bowl of gum. And he is the worst at chewing; open mouthed, snapping, all of it. He makes the worst kinds of noise that set me off. I wear headphones but they’re not noise canceling because I need to hear when he calls out to me. So the headphones mute some of it but most of his gum chewing still gets through. I have to leave my desk because it drives me away. I’ll take a long lunch, or hide in an empty conference room to get away (I sit at a cubicle in front of my boss so there’s no door I can shut him out).

    My boss never brings gum with him, he only takes from my coworker. So would it be totally weird to ask my coworker to not do a communal bowl of gum anymore? I know it’s a strange question, but it really has been affecting my work. He has taken a piece of gum every day this week because she refilled her bowl and it is severely affecting me. I can’t ask him not to chew gum, I’d much rather ask her to simply not have it out. I don’t care if she shares with other coworkers who ask, I just know that he grabs it when he walks past her desk and sees it. If it was out of sight, he wouldn’t take it and I wouldn’t have to hide or pray he has a long meeting every day, as I have done this week.

    1. fposte*

      I so hate gum, but no, I don’t think you can ask the co-worker not to leave gum out to keep your boss from chewing gum.

      1. Washi*

        Yeah I agree. Maaaaybe if you are close to your coworker, you could get away with saying something with a lot of deprecation “I know this is super weird to bring up, but I actually have this totally over the top reaction to listening to people chewing gum. I can’t explain it, but I find it super distracting. Is there any way you could stop putting out gum so often?”

    2. INeedANap*

      I think this depends on your relationship with your co-worker.

      I could totally see myself saying to certain people: “Hey, listen, Boss drives me up the wall chewing gum. Would you mind hiding your gum dish? Or, can I buy you some candy to put in it instead?”

      But these are people I already have an established, friendly, and work-casual relationship with.

      If it’s someone you’re not close with, I can’t really think of any way this wouldn’t come off as seeming a little controlling over others’ environment, though. Maybe others have suggestions?

    3. Parenthetically*

      I dunno, I think you can say, “Hey, Jane, I’m one of those folks who’s weirdly bothered by mouth sounds — would you mind swapping out gum for candy?” Make it about a personal quirk rather than something she’s done. Maybe offer to bring in a big bag of mixed candy or whatever.

      Sorry, this sounds so frustrating.

      1. nep*

        This sounds like a good approach. I really hope you get some relief here — This would drive me absolutely nuts. Fellow gum-popping-intolerant person here.

        1. Specialk9*

          Yeah, so long as you offer to buy the candy. And get good stuff if you can afford it. Cheaper than Bose!

      2. fposte*

        I think you absolutely could do it if the co-worker were the gum-chewer; what makes it tricky here is that you’re asking the co-worker to change her relationship with the boss because of your sensitivity. I think I’d probably reserve that for a situation where I’d also feel comfortable raising it with the boss, because otherwise the co-worker is going to have to have a conversation with the boss because of *my* sensitivities, and that’s not fair.

        1. Parenthetically*

          I see your point! I don’t think it definitely needs a conversation with the boss, though, unless he specifically asks why the coworker has candy instead of gum — I know I’d probably hardly notice — though I can see how that could get awkward. Maybe you’re envisioning something different than I am, though. Seems to me like Boss is an opportunistic gum-grabber, which probably isn’t about the gum at all, but about grabbing something that looks tasty on his way past the desk. I reckon it’s worth an ask given how much this is driving Weird but True! crazy.

          1. soon 2 be former fed*

            Boss could want to freshen his breath before a meeting. Give him a bag of starlight mints.

    4. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Unless you have a REALLY good relationship with that coworker, I’m afraid it’s going to come off really weird to ask that. Maybe you could bring some candy in to “donate” to the candy dish, and get rid of the gum that way?

    5. Zen Cohen*

      Yes, I think you can ask. Gum chewing is universally recognized as a grating hanit that bothers a lot of people when done in excess (see: Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory).

      I think it comes down to tone and your relationship with the co-worker. I wouldn’t make a Big Deal out of it, but I would put being sensitive to the sound of chewing gum on the same level as a sensitivity to strong fragrances or scents. It’s a pretty easy request to accommodate and would be a kindness that would improve your work environment.

      1. Bostonian*

        You make a good point- it’s maybe not that extreme of a request since people generally recognize gum chewing to be annoying. My mother hates the sound of chewing gum (though doesn’t have misophonia), so it’s definitely on my radar as A Thing That Bothers People.

    6. rocklobstah*

      If you have good rapport with your coworker, you can ask. The answer might be “no” but your coworker might not realize that this is making you miserable and may be willing to disappear the bowl for you.

    7. Z*

      If you’re comfortable enough with your coworker to come out to them about the misophonia, one approach would be to do that and ask if they would be comfortable switching to a candy bowl and offer to bring in some candy. Basically, approach your coworker as an ally in this.

    9. Choupet*

      If you do decide to address this with your coworker, I recommend listening to Alison’s podcast from this week where she brilliantly gives an example of the correct tone to use in a situation just like this. Other commenters suggestions for wording are great, coupled with the correct tone, should get you a positive outcome. I 100% feel your pain, gum chewing makes me feel ill too. Good luck!

    10. WellRed*

      My boss is exactly the same with gum and I suspect I also have misophonia. She knows it bugs me, I don’t understand why she just wont. stop. chewing. What is the point of gum (aside from maybe quitting smoking or dieting). Urgh.
      Also, I think its just weird to have a bowl of gum. Is the coworker trying to suck up to gum-chewing boss?

      1. Alice*

        I hate gum-chewing with a passion, but I don’t think it’s weird — it’s like a candy dish for people who don’t want to find themselves eating a lot of candy.

        1. fposte*

          Right, and it doesn’t have to be a suck-up thing to provide something you know somebody likes.

        2. WellRed*

          I guess I just find it odd that so many adults chew gum. It seems such a kid thing to me for the most part.

          1. HS Teacher*

            When I quit smoking I became a sugarless gum chewer. Now I find out people don’t like gum-chewing either.

            It seems I just can’t please anyone!

          2. Hrovitnir*

            I always find it interesting when people say X “seems like a kid thing” to them, because most of the time I really don’t have that association (I think in the past it was something like ponytails?)

            Anyway, I chew gum because (a) I like the taste, (b) it lasts longer than non-chewing mints, which I will go through a lot of if I were to swap them out, and (c) my dentist recommended I chew sugar-free gum because I tend to have a dry mouth and it is the easiest way to stimulate more saliva production.

            The downside is I also have some TMJ pain, so it’s not great for that. I’m aware it bothers people, and I can actually have a pretty strong reaction to chewing sounds myself, but I’m not going to not chew gum in my own time because of that. I don’t eat gum at work but if it’s not an otherwise dead-silent office and it’s not very loud chewing I wouldn’t see it as that reasonable to expect someone to stop – though you can certainly ask, and I would stop if someone around me was bothered.

      2. Rat in the Sugar*

        I dunno what others enjoy about gum, but I’m a fidgeter and also grind/clench my teeth constantly (adult ADHD/possible ASD), so having gum gave my jaw something to do and satisfied the urge to clench my teeth or chew on my lips.

        Unfortunately I haven’t been able to have it since reaching adulthood; it aggravates my reflux badly and makes me nauseous.

        Also, for Weird but True, I think you might be able to ask your boss about this. I could be totally wrong since no one else is suggesting it, but I think that a casual mention like “Hey Boss, do you really like gum in particular or would you mind switching to a different candy? I’m one of those people who get a bit bothered by the noise,” would be alright, especially if you bring a different candy and offer it, or maybe offer to stock a bowl with something boss prefers over gum. Depends on your relationship, I guess, but this is something I would feel comfortable mentioning to my own boss.

        1. fposte*

          I like this better than going to the co-worker, because it doesn’t put the co-worker in an awkward position with the boss. It’s the boss’ behavior that you really want to change, so talk to the boss.

    11. N Twello*

      If you have never ever let on how you feel about this to anyone, then the easiest thing to do is take the bowl and gum and throw them out. You must do this when nobody can suspect you. If the bowl reappears, throw it out again. That ought to do it.

      I once had to do something like this. We had one small fridge for a large office and it was stuffed to the gills every day. One day a coworker got in early and put a huge lunch cooler in the fridge; it was so big that it took up an entire shelf. I saw it when I was alone in the kitchen, and I took it out and put it on the floor. Later that day the cooler was back in the fridge and the kitchen was plastered with notices demanding to know who had done it. I waited till I was alone again and again removed the cooler.

      A big discussion of the issue followed. A new policy was determined that employees could not put large lunch packs in the fridge. In addition, a second fridge was purchased.

      I can’t defend what I did, but it solved the problem quickly and I wasn’t implicated.

      In addition, you might want to think about how you get along in a group environment. We all have to cope with being in close proximity to other people, and you can’t get all worked up about things like this on an ongoing basis.

      1. Jemima Bond*

        I don’t think you should throw away items from someone else’s desk that they have paid for.

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, that’s not cool, especially if it’s being done instead of just talking to somebody about a problem.

      2. AvonLady Barksdale*

        No. I would not do this. This is extremely passive-aggressive. There are other ways– more mature ways– to deal with an annoying situation. Let’s say I brought in flowers one day and put them on my desk, in my office. A co-worker is sensitive (note: not allergic) to one of the flowers in the arrangement. Instead of saying, “Hey, ALB, the smell of those stargazer lilies makes my eyes water, would you mind taking the flowers home or moving them”, she sneaks into my office after hours and dumps the whole arrangement in the trash? No. Give people some credit and the chance to act like adults.

          1. o.b.*

            Sorry, I missed the nesting and thought this was a reply to the original question. I’m a little more OK with your response because I think throwing out someone’s stuff without talking to them about it is a terrible way to attempt to resolve a conflict … but I still think you could’ve been a little less sharp

      4. HS Teacher*

        That’s not even remotely okay. I think I’d hate to work with you. If someone has something going on that bothers you, it requires a polite conversation, not a passive aggressive action like you took!

    12. Cowgirlinhiding*

      Bring something else to fill her bowl. If it is full of Hershey Kisses, no room for gum. Plus she is not going to complain if you start filling it. Problem solved.

      1. HS Teacher*

        Another passive-aggressive suggestion.
        Don’t do any of this, OP! It’s her dish, and if she wants to keep gum in it, it’s her prerogative. You can politely let her know, but your problem with the gum is YOUR issue, not hers. No one can chew gum because you can’t handle the sound of it? That’s ridiculous.

    13. anonagain*

      Mimicking helps my sound sensitivity a bit. It’s still terribly annoying, but I don’t cry or leave the room. I try to mimic as quietly as I can and still get relief, so as not to annoy other people. Sometimes I’ve been able to manage by making other sounds, e.g. using my pen to make scratching noises on paper in rhythm with someone’s chewing. (I also rub my hand over my ear if people can’t see me, which sounds loud to me, but not to other people. Matching the rhythm of the annoying noise is important.)

      Anyway, if this chewing gum nightmare doesn’t resolve, maybe that’s something you can try. I definitely used to angry-chew gum in sync with people around me.

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I hope everyone in your office gets super into a quiet snack.

      1. Lindsay J*

        Interesting. I have some form of misphonia, and have never tried this. I might have to – it sounds much better than sitting around seething with irrational rage.

  22. Snubble*

    My office is moving to a new location, and it seems that nobody is happy with it. It’s not so much the move itself as the new shift schedule stirring up a lot of angst and festering resentments and there’s a lot of whispering in corners going on. HR are involved trying to produce a schedule that works for everyone. I’m not personally worried about the schedule – either of the options I’m facing will work for me – but the general upset and the circular discussions are getting to me. How do I keep an even temper for the next few weeks of this?

    1. sunshyne84*

      Find something positive about the move and change the subject to that. Ex. If there’s a popular restaurant nearby talk about that as a new lunch option.

    2. All Anon*

      Be a role model and shut it down if it is directed towards you or it comes your way. Hey folks, HR is doing their best to make this work so I’m going to go with the flow and think happy thoughts today.

    3. VioletDaffodil*

      I think it could help to just keep reminding yourself that very often people are made uncomfortable by change, and this leads to a lot of vocal worrying and catastrophizing of things. If you can train yourself to see the mood as a typical response to being uncomfortable and anxious, it might help in preventing it from getting to you.

      We had a change in leadership here at work several years ago that made my coworkers very anxious about the future. Whenever they would come to me about it, I would try to say I was just taking it one step at a time and not letting myself worry about the future; I had to repeat this at times, but it helped me to not get stuck into a cycle of worrying about scenarios that were probably worse than reality.

  23. heckofabecca*

    Hi all! I hope everyone’s Friday is going well! I’m looking for recommendations of software or websites that will help me keep track of action items for the people whom I’ve been asked to provide reminders to. Preferably something that will take a due date AND let me set a reminder for X days ahead. Free products are hugely preferred. Thanks so much! (For context, I’m the secretary for a tiny nonprofit that runs a summer program.)

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Do you use Outlook as your mail system? I believe you can use the “tasks” features and email flags to do this.

    2. Grad Student*

      This may not be what you’re looking for, but Google Calendar allows you to put in events and set a notification reminder X minutes/days/weeks ahead of time. Slack also has a reminder bot that I’ve been using a ton for mostly my personal life–you type “/remind me to do X next Wednesday at 10 am” and then it does! (If other people are in a Slack channel with you, you can make the bot remind them of things.)

      1. heckofabecca*

        Thank you and thank everyone!! Given that I use gmail, I’m going to start here. Now I’m furiously switching my personal stuff to it as well… We’ll see if end up using 2 apps, one for personal and one for work, or just the one :)

        Thanks again!! Have a great weekend all!

    3. Parenthetically*

      I’ve used Asana. They have a free version or one that’s $9.99/mo. It’s project-based so I don’t know if that will work for your needs, but it was pretty intuitive and simple to use when I used it.

      2. As Close As Breakfast*

        I use Asana as well. It works great for assigning tasks (with due dates) to people.

    4. Curious Cat*

      Not totally sure this is what you’re looking for, but I use Momentum in my web browser (it’s a free add-on). Every time I open a new tab in my browser, it opens to Momentum and I can see my current to-do list & you can set daily goals for yourself.

    6. Fishsticks*

      I love Todoist. It has a free option as well as a premium one. You can put daily or other repeating reminders based on date and sort them into specific projects.

    7. Llama Wrangler*

      This might not be exactly what you’re looking for, but I use boomerang, which works for Gmail based email to do this. I’ll set something to boomerang back to me if it has not been replied to on the deadline, and something to boomerang whether it’s been replied to or not a few days ahead of the deadline if I need to set a reminder.

    8. Modernhypatia*

      I use Todoist – if you use Gmail (or can install the addon for Outlook), you can link emails into it with the premium option (which is something like $20 a year).

      I stick a link in when I answer something, and if I’m going to need a reminder, I duplicate that, set the date for whatever I need. Then when it pops up in the list, I can click the link to the email and immediately remember what it was I needed to do.

    9. Little Bean*

      I used to use Trello and liked it, but I think it’s really meant for more complicated projects than I have. Often, I just need to remember “check website for updates” on XXX day or something very simple. So now I just use the tasks feature on my Google calendar. It’s super easy to post short reminders, you can edit it to include a longer description if you need to and it’s also really easy to drag them around your calendar if you need to reschedule something.

  24. AnotherAlison*

    Trivial business travel question of the day: I’ve been using a lot of the off-airport parking services, like The Parking Spot. Some people don’t tip, other people seem to tip a dollar. I am not traveling with anything other than my personal bag and do not have a roller bag that I need help with. Should I tip or not? The logical part of me says just be generous–it’s a dollar to a bus driver. The tightwad in me has tip fatigue (so many services with square pay and automatic tip requests now). Thoughts?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I only tip when the driver helps me with my suitcase or does something special for me (like drop me off at a spot that’s not designated). I consider myself to be a pretty generous tipper, too.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      My dad used to drive one of those shuttles and they aren’t paid as low as servers, but their hourly rate is on the lower side because it is assumed they will get tips.

    3. periwinkle*

      If I’m traveling light with just a backpack, no tip. That almost never happens, though! I’ll tip a dollar or two.

      I may be unorganized in many parts of life, but when it comes to tipping I am prepared. I’m off to the credit union today to get some $20 bills converted to $1 and $5 bills. I will use paper clips to portion out travel cash: nightly housekeeping tips; bellhops/shuttle drivers/curbside check-in tips; carryout or barista tips; and cash for small purchases like gum. The cash not needed immediately goes into an envelope tucked into my laptop; if the work laptop is lost or stolen, I’ve got bigger problems than $15 in cash to worry about…

      1. AnotherAlison*

        Dang. This is a level of organization I can only strive for right now. I park two cars in two different airports on each end, and feel like I’m doing good if I can keep track of which service I used, where I parked (depends on the airline if off-airport or garage is better), not lock any keys in a car, and remember my wallet.

    4. Seal*

      I always tip a buck or 2, both because I always have at least one suitcase and because they cheerfully take me straight from my car to the airport and back. That’s worth a buck or 2 in my book.

    5. Iris Eyes*

      The less people who tip the more fair and equitable wages will be. I’d save it for situations that warrant it where they are clearly exceeding the expectations.

      1. soon 2 be former fed*

        Nope. The people who depend on tips will just have less to live on. Wishful thinking.

    7. Jemima Bond*

      Can you think of any ancestral reason why you might in fact be British? Then you could not tip (except in restaurants, for good service, and even then only ten per cent unless it was so good you want to marry the waiter/waitress) with a clear conscience because you are following cultural norms!
      (Not criticising the British – I am one!)

  25. Parenthetically*

    TL;DR: Who here has left their job after a season of being a work-outside-the-home parent? Pros and cons?

    I’m strongly considering not returning to teaching in the fall this year. It’s been really chaotic, and although I have always been really passionate about teaching, I feel like some of the spark has gone out just with all the craziness. I have a few options for next year, but none of them is really ramping me up at the moment. My husband is very happy to follow my lead on this, and we could make it on his income alone (mine is only part time as it is). I’d love to hear your stories of going back to work after having a child and then deciding to take some time away from work. How did you decide? What makes it worth it? What’s frustrating? Do you have plans for going back? What does that look like for you?

    TIA! :)

    1. go sharks go!*

      I have always been a working mom (my kid is almost 6 yrs old), but, I want to say that if you feel you need a bit of a break from teaching and can afford to spend more time with your child then by all means do it! Your child is only a baby for a short amount of time, the days are long but the years are short. IMO, look at it as a leave of absence :) I had about 5 months of mat. leave due to FMLA plus my state’s family leave act but also ended up using vacation time for the remainder of the year since I had accrued so much. This helped me ease back into a long commute, plus being a working mom.

    2. Bethy L*

      I am literally doing this same thing today! This is my last FT day before going PT remote just a few hours a week. I’ve got 4 kids and worked continually. I was surprised to find that I felt I was more stretched for time as the kids got older. I am going to do some contract work, but my primary focus will be family. I have money fears, but mostly what I realized is that I am so stressed and pulled in so many directions, that by the time I got home, I had literally nothing left for my family. I am really, really excited to learn how to sit still. I hope to keep my hand in professionally, and if I want to go back to FT I’d like to think I’ve built up enough of solid reputation over 20 years that I would be able to find something. But my long-term goal is to pull together contracts and bring in enough work, but also allow that flexibility to be there for the kids. Good luck!

    3. Candygrammar*

      I went back to work with my first, but I left the workforce after my second was born.

      Having a second really tipped the balance in terms of time poverty, daycare costs, and stress. I’ve really loved being there for my kids, and I am a lot more relaxed about time, and just them in general. I don’t have the sense that I have to make every moment special, and we have a more or less peaceful, low maintenance daily routine that I really treasure.

      As for downsides, I feel like I’ve had to specialize a lot more in kid/domestic stuff. My husband and I used to be about 50/50 in taking kids to appointments and being in charge of the day to day kid stuff, and now it’s more like 90/10.

      My youngest is almost a year old, and I’m starting to look for part time work because I miss being out around other adults and using those parts of my brain.

      Good luck!

    4. Stanley Nickels*

      I worked for 10 months after my first child was born (including 10 weeks of maternity leave) and have been at home with them (and our new infant!) for over a year now.

      My decision to leave was fairly easy – my husband had to move for a new job and various old issues/new changes happening at my job made me not want to stay on. He also was able to support us financially, and with the cost of childcare, it didn’t make much sense for me to continue working in my old position anyway.

      What makes it worth it: You get to see your child grow every day and you make so many memories getting to know them. You can set your schedule and focus on the things you want to do and/or they enjoy. You don’t have the drama or stress of work hanging over you. If you have another child, you have more time to recover from birth and focus on how you want to raise the baby, as opposed to making decisions based on returning to work. As I mentioned above, you avoid major daycare costs!

      What is fustrating: You have to MAKE time for yourself. You won’t get the adult alone time or social interactions you need unless you make an effort. You won’t feel as intellectually stimulated during the day. I struggle with feeling like I’m not contributing financially because I was very independent previously.

      Other things to consider: Check into your spouse’s insurance for the cost of adding you, if applicable. That can be one of the largest expenses of stepping away from working (in the US at least). Check into your retirement savings – what will that look like if you aren’t working? Have frank discussions with your husband about money spending/saving on only one income. Also, try to be on the same page about your new role – even though you’re home all day, the house won’t always be spotless with all the errands done! Kids tend to make the unexpected “plans detour” happen daily.

      The are ups and downs, like with anything, but I feel so fortunate to spend this time with my kids. It is too true that time with them flies and you won’t get it back, and I don’t think I will ever regret this time with them. If you can manage it financially and feel prepared for some of the frustrations, I would recommend it!

      I don’t have any concrete plans to return to working, but I would ideally like to return when the kids are older and gone at school most of the day. I’ll probably start researching job ideas when they are in preschool and honing in on what field I’d like to get back into.

      Good luck with whatever you decide!

    5. CurrentlyLooking*

      I spent 14 years as a stay at home mom before returning to work part-time.

      It does take a long time to adjust and the first year or two were a little lonely. Once the kids were old enough to attend preschool and take classes, we found many friends and had a lot of fun.

      Financially it was a bit tight for the first few years. I learned to shop well, cook a lot, and budget to be able to stay home. As the years went by, my husbands salary grew which made it easier. (I did find after returning to work that I spent much more in general due to having less time to shop, cook, etc.)

      Good luck w whichever you choose!

    6. Piano Girl*

      Hi was a stay-at-home mom while my children were small, and eventually went back to school part-time to finish up my degree. Worked for awhile and then left, due to stress-related illness (the non-profit I was working for was having major problems). I eventually went back to work and was employed for almost ten years. Last year I was laid off and decided at that time that I needed a break to deal with some new health problems. I have really enjoyed not working full-time this year, as it has given me opportunities to spend time with out-of-town family. We anticipate moving in the next few months, and then I plan to probably find at least a part-time job.
      I have enjoyed working, but also enjoy not being completely stressed out. Good luck in what you decide to do!

    7. Traveling Teacher*

      I took a little over a year off after my first was born, then completely switched careers. I didn’t want to be working at school and at home planning and correcting papers without being fairly paid for my time in both places (most of the time, I worked under contract at various locations, not FT salaried, so a bit different to your situation. That 35 euros/hour soon became about 5 euros/hour when you include planning plus correcting! It’s not realistic to correct 30 essays and prepare for the next lesson in a half-hour of paid prep…)

      So, now I work from home. The biggest switch for me was that I was no longer the person “in charge.” I’m no longer the one making the long-term plan, and I’m really enjoying that!

      I had thought I would enjoy being a full-time mom a lot more than I actually did. YMMV, and being able to be at home FT is a privileged position indeed, but I found that I was much, much happier once I started working again, while still taking care of my child FT at home during the day.

  26. DoctorateStrange*

    I applied to a job the other day and I made sure to reduce my two-page resume to one page by leaving only leadership positions I’ve had in school activities and just leaving only other things related to the field of the position I want.

    Now this was an online application and it has the option of adding any other documents besides my resume. I’m thinking of adding a document of all the stuff I left out in my resume. How do you think that will go?

    I’m pursuing my Master’s in this field and I’m thinking of mentioning the coursework I’ve taken already to show them that I am planning on growing/developing in the field.

    1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      I don’t know that I’d add a whole document of other activities if they aren’t related to the current position and field. If there’s experience and skills you learned from them that would be useful, I’d mention that in the cover letter.

    2. Z*

      That “other documents” option is usually intended for cover letters, and built/phrased that way so it can accommodate jobs that may need something else specific (e.g. writing samples for a p.r. job). It’s not really meant for stuff that could have been included on a resume.

      Hope this is helpful.

  27. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

    So a coworker who is constantly rude to me and many other staff members just got nominated for one of the highest honors our organization offers. I’m flummoxed. My boss (who is also his boss) constantly tells me that he has a “gruff attitude” and “you need to understand he is new and learning” yet she nominates him for an award!? Are you kidding me?

    Meanwhile I put in 10 months of crazy work on a project where I was the PM and also the only resource. This is a project for an item our department has tried and failed to get for the past 4 years and all I got was a text that said “thank you”. Yeah my moral is running on fumes right now.

    1. DoctorateStrange*

      I was about to ask if this award may have had to do with his seniority, but now I’ve reread what you posted and seeing that’s “he’s new,” I’m really thrown.

      I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

    2. Seal*

      As nice as it is to be recognized for your work with a special award, I take the entire process with a grain of salt. I’ve been fortunate enough to have been recognized by my institution and other organizations with awards, but have also been passed over for even a nomination, only to see someone I consider to be undeserving or just plain awful get recognized. It absolutely can be a moral-buster, especially when a jerk gets an award.

    3. VioletDaffodil*

      I’m really sorry that this is happening to you. Sometimes I have found that people have a management (or parenting…) style where they think the person who is misbehaving just doesn’t have enough incentive to behave yet, and once they find the right incentive level it will be smooth sailing. In my experience, this rarely works, but it makes me wonder if this is what your boss is doing. It’s a terrible system because it rewards bad behavior and makes those who are trying hard feel unseen, and unappreciated.

      It sounds like you are a competent, high-performing person so in her mind she doesn’t need to pay any attention because you are already doing what she wants. Even if you stopped, she likely wouldn’t suddenly become more encouraging; instead she would be angry that she now has to devote energy to you too.

      Since you have just had a big success at work, it might be time to think about finding a new position where you are more appreciated.

      1. Iris Eyes*

        Yeah, I’ve seen them. Its like they think that by being extra nice the other person will feel duty bound to deserve the treatment. Sometimes it works with praise but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it work with things.

      2. King Friday XIII*

        Yes to this. I was in a similar position where I knew I wasn’t going to get recognized because they didn’t feel like they needed to work to “keep” me. It got under my skin, and at the same time made me feel petty and horrible for caring. Eventually I realized that if I felt appreciated in other ways it wouldn’t bother me so much. Go find someplace that’ll appreciate you.

    6. Irene Adler*

      So go out and get a job promotion for yourself.
      IF they won’t recognize your value, find a place that does.

    7. N Twello*

      Kudos, awards, recognition in general… these programs often have a negative net effect on morale.

      I’ll give you an example. I once worked at a company that had a policy that weekly meetings had to start with the manager recognizing accomplishments of the team in the previous week. Over a two year period, my manager never once recognized my accomplishments, even though I had many. I got bonuses and great performance evaluations (but they were recommended by my team lead). There were other people in our department who felt similarly left out by the “kudos” policy, and we were all disgruntled.

      Why did our manager leave us out? We never knew. Guesses included: she only recognized her favorites; she didn’t like us personally; she was threatened by us; she was simply sloppy and didn’t keep track of who she was recognizing.

      Work is not fair. It should be a meritocracy but it usually isn’t. You have to be clear about why you’re working there (you love the work; you can’t get the same salary elsewhere; you want to put in X years for your resume; opportunities) and try to ignore the indignities. In my case, I quit that job and took a new job… which turned out to be much worse. But hey, it might have been better.

      1. Gatomon*

        +1

        I’ll add to your example. I worked in a place where morale was tanking for various, management-related reasons. So management decided to boost morale with staff recognition. They came up with something fairly simple that sounds good at first: employee-driven recognition. For instance, I see Nina going above and beyond, so I nominate her to be recognized in a staff meeting. Management could not make any nominations.

        Well it turned out that there was a group of employees who were very motivated to participate. And the group of motivated employees consistently nominated other people in the motivated group. They also set the bar for what they felt worthy of nomination very low, so the volume they submitted was high. The same people would receive nominations each week. So there was a pool of 5 or 6 employees who were constantly nominating each other for fairly basic stuff drowning out the recognition time for everyone else. The rest of us got even more demoralized and stopped participating, which made it worse. It felt like a recognition program for the popular kids.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      “you need to understand he is new and learning”

      Me: “So you are saying, Boss, that this award is for newbies who haven’t really learned the job yet? Oh, phew. That does not describe me so I don’t qualify.”

      Actually said this. To my boss.

      The award went away, when the newbie winner committed Jailable Offense. I’d like to think it was because of my great response, but that probably had nothing to do with it.

    9. Fiennes*

      I think it’s fair to start looking for an exit. Hard work and collegial behavior aren’t rewarded where you are now.

    10. Gatomon*

      I think it’s time to look around. There may be better places out there. Every time something like this has happened to me, I took my angry feelings, turned them into a resume and landed a better job. It’s the universe hinting to you that it’s time to put your big project on your resume and move on.

    11. Close Bracket*

      As an aside, I’m going to grumble about how men get away with being gruff, and women get called “difficult.”

  28. Folklorist*

    Hi everyone! It’s your I’m-too-tired-to-come-up-with-something-clever-to-say ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!!!
    Go do something you’ve been putting off and come back and brag about it!

    I’ve, well, procrastinated a whole bunch and am now under the gun to finish an article. (Ahem) and am now posting on AAM to distract me. Sigh. Back to the salt mines! I’ll comment here when I’ve shoved it out the door!

    1. Grad Student*

      I have pretty much done nothing but procrastinate all morning (sigh) and now I’m about to go off for a lunchtime climbing break–but when I come back I will DEFINITELY fix the data processing step that I’ve been putting off and will come back here to say so!

    2. Parenthetically*

      Check! Loaded the stupid dishwasher and washed the stupid dishes, took out the stupid trash, and made myself lunch (due to schedule craziness on Tuesdays and Fridays I often forget to eat before I head in to work).

    3. MamaGanoush*

      Followed up in person re bookstore order emails, got all the needed info, and BONUS got a great idea for streamlining a process. Yay!

    5. Jemima Bond*

      It’s Friday evening here in Limey Land and I’ve just got home from work. So tbh I am on the settee drinking gin. Although I did message three links to bridesmaids dresses to my friend who is getting married (and has kindly asked me to be a bridesmaid) so that’s helpful I guess.
      I promise I’ll do the washing up and hoovering first thing tomorrow!

    6. Folklorist*

      I’M DONE!!! Hoooooo, this has been a trying week with these stupid articles. And my stupid second job scheduling me for stupid twice-as-many-hours-as-I-requested. For once in my life, I actually have some money and I’m using some of it this weekend to get someone to clean my apartment so I can enjoy my limited time off! (Echoing user Parenthetically).

    7. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I had over 200 unread email in my inbox. They are now down to zero, thank goodness.

    8. HS Teacher*

      I finished writing my master’s thesis, which is due…. in 2 hours. I procrastinated for weeks, but once I sat down and forced myself to focus, it wasn’t that bad. I graduate on May 10, and I couldn’t be more proud.

      I was the first in my family to graduate from college, so my family is super proud and supportive. It’s a great feeling.

  29. Alex*

    Does anyone here work in or know much about the healthcare IT/IM field? It seems like healthcare is one of the few growing industries and for someone who is quite squeamish, this is perhaps the best option for getting in on it. I have seen programs offered at the community college and university levels and was wondering how they are viewed? If you don’t have either a healthcare or IT background, are they adequate preparation for getting a job/are there actually jobs available? Thanks for input.

    1. MissGirl*

      I work in information systems in healthcare and I wouldn’t say we’re growing necessarily. My company just outsourced 3000 employees to other companies, including some of our IT. Much of IT, even in other sectors, is being outsourced.

      Healthcare is seeing rising costs and many companies are struggling. Don’t get into it because you think it’s a safe bet. Pay and perks can also be lower. Figure out what kind of job you want to do before you necessarily choose an industry.

    2. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

      I work in healthcare, but not directly in IT.
      From what I usually see, healthcare facilities hire IT companies as a contractor/vendor. If you want to be a stand-out, make sure you’re up to date on HIPAA and all the security measures to ensure HIPAA-compliance, and then maybe join an IT company with a reputation for working with healthcare.
      If you want to be an IT person directly hired by a healthcare facility, I personally don’t see much of that, but obviously it can be different everywhere. You’d have to see what the norm is in your area.

      But for healthcare, being an expert in HIPAA is a huge plus.

    3. rubyrose*

      Healthcare IT here, specifically the software side. Are you thinking the hardware or software side?

      Tongue Cluckin’ Grammarian is correct about health care systems bringing in vendors for their software. That is because the software needed in healthcare is so complicated, due to government regulations and privacy concerns, that home-grown software systems for it are crazy expensive to create and maintain. So if you are thinking software, yes, look for companies that support healthcare.

      Hardware side – healthcare knowledge is useful, but less required. Besides the HIPAA/PHI requirements, understanding that if you are supporting patient care networks, you have to be really aware of disaster recovery, redundancy, and the fact that you are really running 24/7, 365 days a year.

      Those community college/university programs (I graduated from one) are really useful for understanding the business side of healthcare, but typically will not give you the technical background you need for the IT side.

    4. TerraTenshi*

      IT adjacent in the healthcare field here. It varies a lot depending on location, company, job, etc. One of the best suggestions I have if you’re going for entry level is to try looking at non-treatment healthcare like a blood bank rather than a doctors office or hospital. The work is similar but somewhat less complicate and easier to break into. If you’re willing to start on the help desk you may be better off looking at A+ certification or similar rather than a degree.

    5. Windchime*

      My experience happened almost 20 years ago, so YMMV.

      I was working in the business office of an outpatient clinic, processing claims and payments. I took some classes at the local community college to learn programming; it was a smattering of C++, Java, and a little bit of theory as well. That allowed me to get my foot in the door when a programming job opened up; because I had organizational knowledge and had built a good reputation, they took a chance on me in the programming job. I’m still in IT for Healthcare some 18 years later, and still love it. My previous job wasn’t very secure (the company kept getting sold), but now I work for Giant University so it feels much more secure.

  30. Ainomiaka*

    Well, pressure dude didn’t get job we were both applying for. Sadly I didn’t either. And they called at the WORST possible time. If you saw my life post last week, right when I was finding out. I’m just proud that I didn’t cry on the phone. I guess I just need to find ways to make my current job interesting long term-it’s not terrible. Just repetitive. And I struggle with focusing on the same details time after time. But what I really need is for it to pay better. *sigh* no advice questions. Keep on keeping on, I guess.

    1. Jemima Bond*

      I know these are (duck-billed) platitudes but still: Hang in there! Onwards and upwards! Tomorrow is a new day!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I like to have chicken or salmon for dinner when I need help focusing at work. Getting set amounts of sleep each night helps and so does hydration. Good luck on your search, I hope you find something soon.

  31. SpaceNovice*

    A potential opportunity cropped up; a recruiter from a company that I liked got in contact with me again. I passed the screening interview and it sounds like a good cultural fit; it’s also super close to my house! That means a technical phone interview is next and if that works out, a face to face with a bit of coding.

    Anyone got any tips for the phone technical interview? It should be focused on Java/software engineering. I’m going to be getting prepped this weekend since I’ve never done one of these before.

    1. Cassie*

      My advice is to think about logistics. I had enough flexibility that I was able to work from home on the few times where I had something where I needed a computer and more than a lunch break if I had to drive all the way home. But you might want to think about a headset or speaker phone so you can type while talking.

      You probably want to do a quick review of breadth first and depth first search and hash tables, if you can manage.

      And then remember during the interview that the more you say out loud about your thought process, the better! If you get stuck, make sure you’ve explained your general thought process and see if there’s a way to come back to it later.

      1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

        I agree with the think out loud suggestion. When I’m doing technical interviews (granted, all face to face), I’m as interested in the person’s thought processes as I am in the final answer – sometimes more.

        I’d also brush up on basic OOP principals – inheritance, interfaces, method overloading and overriding (I like to ask the difference between these, since it’s pretty fundamental). If you have examples of where you’ve used these before that you can describe, even better. If you know anything about any sort of design patterns and can describe how you’ve used them (or would use them, if it’s a hypothetical), bonus!

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Oh yes, definitely. I have to think out loud during interviews or talking with people for sure because my ADHD means that I think differently and especially need to explain my thought processes. (My brain makes webbed connections rather than more linear ones, if that makes any sense.)

          Those are all excellent suggestions; I’m putting them on my review list, although I’m pretty sure I can give immediate answers. They just need more polishing. (I don’t know what patterns I generally use since no place has really emphasized patterns in my previous jobs. I suspect I use some and just don’t know their names. Definitely going to skim that as well.)

          Thank you very much! I really appreciate it.

      2. SpaceNovice*

        Oops, thanks for reminding me! I let my boss know I’ll be WFH on Monday. I might have to look into a headset; my phone has a decent speakerphone capability and I can do Wifi calling so I won’t lose connection.

        Oh, good suggestions. I haven’t had to think about those in a while.

        Thankfully, I usually think about stuff out loud naturally during interviews, but I’ll make sure that I definitely do it! Thank you for the help!

  32. Melody*

    Situation: For various reasons, I’m really struggling at my current job, and my performance is low in some areas. I’m worried about being fired, and I am keeping an eye out for other opportunities.
    Q1 – Time
    – to even perform halfway decent takes more than 40 hours at this job. Improving my performance – via things like as taking classes, which I’ve done on and off – takes even more time. How am I supposed to fit in a strategic job hunt when I’m working so much? I had friends advise me to just let my performance slip even more and focus on the job hunt but I’m afraid I’d get fired even quicker and then won’t be able to find a job! But if I only focus on improving and it doesn’t work, then I won’t have any job leads. How do I balance this???
    Q2 – References.
    If I do find another job they won’t check for references with my current employer, but some time in the future I will need more than one professional reference and I wouldn’t get a good one here. How do I address a “reference gap”?
    Thanks for any help!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      A while ago a person here mentioned that they search for a job to apply to in the morning. After work, they write that cover letter, tailor the resume and ship it out. I was very impressed with how this person broke the task into two parts.

      I am not sure if you still want/need classes. With a 40 hour work week, I think one class at a time is PLENTY.

      As you go through your work day look for ways to streamline your work or build shortcuts or helpers into your work day. The job I have now came with NOTHING. I had to build my contacts list as I went along. I had to figure out what order to do things in so that I was not backtracking or missing things. At first it seemed like 9 million balls in the air. So I decided to set an order for daily tasks. I do these tasks in the same order each day. What used to take me hours now takes me 30 minutes at most. I have eliminated the forgetting, the backtracking, the redoing etc on the repetitive tasks. My wise friend said get a handle on the repetitive stuff first, worry about the one-of-a-kind in a little bit.
      Build yourself lists, cheat sheets and I even have an example file. If I need to do X and I have not done an X in months, I can go to my example file and find Example of X to copy directly or to use as a guideline in a slightly different situation. I have a folder of calendars because everyone and their cat sends me a calendar. I use sheet protectors and tabs that I made. I can quickly ditch an old calendar and put the new one in. My theory is that we have a tendency to say, “Oh, I will remember this or that!” And then we don’t remember because it’s not realistic to remember. Nail down the easy stuff and nail down the stuff that is a recurring headache.

  33. Another Lauren*

    Tell me about historically underemployed communities! I have an opportunity to hire a large number of entry level staff for a position with decent growth potential, and I want to make sure I’m attracting a wide range of candidates. So far I plan to reach out to: returning citizens who’ve been incarcerated, youth aging out of foster care, people with intellectual or developmental disabilities (physical disabilities, too, but I’ve been able to easily recruit there in the past), the refugee community, and…? What am I missing? What barriers can I remove from the hiring process as a whole to make it easier? Thanks, AAMers!

    1. Emi.*

      Mothers returning to the workforce after a stint at home! Okay, and fathers, but mostly mothers.

    2. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Former addicts, although that correlates a lot of times with people who’ve been incarcerated. We have a “drug court” here, and I’ve connected with the PO who runs it to get a pipeline of candidates. I’ve also talked to some local social service agencies to get the word out there, too.

    3. Famous Blue Raincoat*

      Veterans should definitely be considered–I know a surprising number of them (of varying ages/generations, including some who were very recently deployed in Afghanistan/Iraq) who struggle to find work on their return from active duty.

    4. TCO*

      It’s awesome that you’re thinking about this! Have you reached out to any workforce-type programs that support underemployed communities like those you mentioned? I bet many of them would be happy to circulate your job posting or even partner with you in a deeper way. They might be able to provide some support to you and the folks you hire if challenges arise as well as providing that proactive advice about making your hiring process and workplace welcoming.

    5. Chameleon*

      I don’t have anything particular to add to your list (other than Native Americans and women of color) but I just want to say this is really awesome of you!

    6. Washi*

      When I did hiring for an entry level position that was basically constantly open (seasonal, lots of turnover between years) we put together a short guide on what to expect from the interview, how to prepare, and what would impress us. We also gave candidates a couple of the tougher behavioral questions ahead of time so they would have a chance to prepare a good answer.

      I think the main benefit was feeling like we could hold everyone to a similar standard, and we could see who was able to take advantages of resources offered to improve their performance.

      1. Another Lauren*

        This is awesome! I had thought about the way I write the job description (removing jargon, using neutral language, describing a typical day on the job) but I love the idea of putting together an interview guide! I’m also planning to use a rubric to evaluate all candidates in order to reduce unconscious bias.

        2. Washi*

          Ooh, we did this too. We didn’t share the rubric ahead of time, but we did tell them the categories they would be scored on. We also tried to have two people in the interview to avoid one person unconsciously just hiring people like themselves, and then have them do the rubric separately before comparing to avoid group-think.

    7. Temperance*

      So, I grew up lower-income, and honestly, kids whose parents didn’t attend college and who grew up in poverty need opportunities, too.

      1. Another Lauren*

        Thanks, Temperance! Any suggestions of places to post the job that would attract candidates like you describe?

          1. Detective Amy Santiago*

            LOL I figured I’d upgrade my username at the end of the season (in case I need to change anything other than the title)

        5. FrontRangeOy*

          If your library system posts local job opportunities, that’s a great way to reach many of the demographics you’re looking at.

          Someone else mentioned WorkForce, that’s especially good because you can talk with the councilors there about the interview skills you’d like to see and they can fine tune their interview coaching sessions.

    8. Parenthetically*

      This is so rad. My husbands workplace does a great job reaching out to historically underemployed groups due to one manager’s passion for the extremely poor neighborhood where he grew up and still works.

      As far as barriers, my mind immediately went to transportation issues, especially if you live in an area with sub-par public transport. It’s sometimes hard to get out of poverty because you physically can’t just get out of your poor neighborhood! I’m not sure of a solution for when they’re hired beyond a carpool/vanpool setup, but for recruiting, why not set up open interviews or job fair type things at community centers in disadvantaged areas?

      1. Another Lauren*

        Yep! We have decent public transport, and we’re going to pay up front for unlimited monthly passes as a perk. I’m also planning to advertise that in the JD so people don’t inadvertently self-select out.

    9. Nick*

      Spouses of active-duty military often find it difficult to find jobs as they may have to move frequently

    11. SpaceNovice*

      Talk to local organizations. Some of them run job programs that can help or know of those that do! There is also the local WorkForce [StateName] location (a federal program run by states individually).

    12. Q*

      Transgender individuals. For outreach — look for local support organizations (LGBTQ as well as trans-specific). In terms of barriers — I don’t think it serves anyone if you remove barriers from the hiring process but not from the rest of the organization, so start with a good look at how trans-friendly the company is, and work from there. As someone who is not trans but sees trans-inclusivity as a helpful indicator of how progressive a company is overall, I tend to notice language and bathrooms first, and if you’ve got an all-gender single-stall handicapped restroom visible and accessible from where I’m waiting for my interview, that’s a huge plus.

      1. Another Lauren*

        Yes, indeed! We’re actually building a brand-new building, so we’ve built in all-gender, single-user, accessible restrooms. It makes such a huge difference! We’re also in a pretty progressive major city, and every company I’ve worked for in the past has been very trans-friendly, so I think this one will be as well.

        2. AMT*

          You might want to post a link to the job on your city’s local queer exchange/queer-friendly employment group on Facebook. Most cities have at least one of those, if not both. I see a lot of trans people on these groups looking for jobs.

    13. Iris Eyes*

      It sounds like you have a pretty good list going. I don’t know how accessible your location is to a variety of transportation options but if it is close to bus lines, you encourage biking (have a secure location for storage) or other things like that that would make it easy on people who don’t or can’t drive to work, make sure to mention that in your ads.

      Also make sure your application process doesn’t require a lot of time with a computer (bonus if you can make it mobile friendly).

      There was an organization in my local town that helped women get ready for a career, I’m pretty sure it was run by a church in conjunction with a food bank.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Get in touch with libraries. You can even get in touch with churches. Many pastors know who is struggling. While the pastor may not name names, they might deliver a flyer if you have flyers to give out. (Or have someone in their church do it.)
        Definitely have something to hand out, because some of your contacts might have confidentiality concerns. They can forward info but they can’t give it to you.

    15. Flinty*

      You have an awesome list here! One other thing to consider is how you and your coworkers will support these employees once they are hired, which is what I’ve always found to be the tricky part. People from disadvantaged/underemployed backgrounds face a double whammy of A) not necessarily coming in with the same understanding of white collar work norms and B) facing prejudice from their fellow coworkers because of their race/orientation/disability/whatever. And the combination ends up reducing their opportunities for growth compared to more traditional hires.

      I’ve gone through some staff training that’s been helpful, but I would love to see what other commenters have found works well too!

      2. Another Lauren*

        Agreed! Luckily it’s a brand-new company, so everyone will be learning company norms together, including me. I’m currently battling HR on not using loaded phrasing like “well-spoken” on the job description. I think everyone we’re going to work with on a day-to-day basis will be fine, but this particular HR team (part of a larger org) has a tendency to get out their clutching pearls anytime we want to do things differently.

      3. sunshyne84*

        That’s my concern. But great that you’re actively looking to help underserved communities.

    16. Thursday Next*

      This thread has lifted me up today. Another Lauren, I admire the thought you’re putting into every aspect of hiring, from candidate outreach, to the non-jargony job description and the evaluation rubric. Keep us posted on how the process goes!

      1. Another Lauren*

        Oh, I’m so glad to hear that! We’re still several months out from starting the hiring process, but I’ll absolutely keep everyone updated. And thank you all for the amazing suggestions!

      2. Be the Change*

        Yes indeed! Thank you, AL, this bit of positivity has helped on a not great day. Very best wishes getting great candidates who need you, too.

      3. Grad Student*

        Agreed! I’m honestly getting emotional from all the inclusivity and positivity in this thread (and it’s not even personal to me at all). You’re doing a great thing here :)

    17. Megan*

      You’re awesome for giving these opportunities! Depending on the work, possibly people living in domestic violence shelters? And please coordinate with your local office of social services to connect with people living in poverty–SNAP or TANF recipients in particular.

      1. Another Lauren*

        Yes! Also trying to figure out how to provide consistent lunch/snacks for anyone who might be food insecure.

    18. On Fire*

      You might consider posting the job with domestic violence shelters as well as homeless, as Marzipan mentioned above. Or sharing it with area DV orgs so they can provide info in whatever ways best help their clients.

      1. Jules the Third*

        +1

        Also, home makers who have recently gone through a divorce. Outreach – maybe churches? Churches may also be a good method of outreach for PoC. I’ll bet there are pastor coalitions you can work with instead of having to go to separate churches.

        Good luck bringing together your diverse workforce.

    19. Chaordic One*

      Other people have already said this but, members of the LGBT community. Back at “Dysfunctional Teapots, Ltd.” they would make a point of hiring a diverse group of people for entry-level jobs, but so many of them were never promoted and would never make it out of the entry-level job they were originally hired for, and I really think that they would have been fine in a higher level position. They were like tokens.

      I do know that when we had LGBT people in customer facing positions we had a lot of baseless complaints about them. (Especially the somewhat effeminate men, and to a lesser degree, the more masculine-looking women with short hair and who didn’t wear makeup.)

    20. Hobgoblin*

      This is awesome! I suggest reaching out to the Deaf community. They’re underemployed, by and large, and employers seem to think it’s super complicated to hire a Deaf person. Reach to your local RID (Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf) chapter for tips- I’m in sign language interpreter school still so definitely not an expert. I think if you note on your advertisement that you provide an interpreter at interviews, that would be huge. It’s such a tricky thing to have to ask for an interpreter and employers tend to get weirded out by the request and “better qualified” candidates are suddenly found. Good luck!

      1. Another Lauren*

        Yes, and I’ve read that it’s best to try and hire multiple people who sign, as it can feel isolating to be the only one who communicates that way. Ideally, I want all staff to learn some basic ASL, especially since we’re going to deal with the public. Right now I’m limited to saying hi, asking someone’s name, and telling them it’s nice to meet them.

    21. Slipjack*

      I’m super late, but this is so awesome. DACAmented people and (if your company can do this) hiring undocumented folks as contractors.

  34. Retail Gal*

    Well, guess who works at the department store that’s closing across the East/Midwest?

    I’ve been job hunting for over a year, but this kicks my butt into fifth gear. The thought across the store, which is on the smaller side, is that we’ll last hopefully through the second week of June. I have so many questions, but I’m going to try to keep it to two questions…at least for this post.

    1) With the entire business closing, it seems weird to me to mention that in a cover letter. Previously, it’s been about looking for full-time hours/wanting to move to the area/wanting a bigger challenge. If HR or a hiring manager would look at my resume or application, I’m assuming they would understand that the company is closing/closed. (You know what they say about assuming though) It’s not like a mom & pop shop is closing up in my area that they may have never heard of. Do I bring it up? How does one do that eloquently?

    2) Right now, my plan of attack is trying to directly apply to job openings in the area we want to move to. If that doesn’t pan out by the time our store closes…that’s where my brain locks up. Do I go through a temp agency in Desired Area for a direct-to-hire, or even just a string of contract temp jobs? (This is how I started at $OldJob, a job I loved) Do I do contract temp jobs in the area I live now? I don’t want to look for a permanent position in Current Area because we’re looking to move within the next year.

    I think the anxiety is starting to slowly set in. A rejection email/no contact from anyone was disappointing, but Okay. Now, a rejection email is slowly turning into Not So Okay.

    1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I think you could mention the closing at the end of your cover letter. Something along the lines of, “I have really appreciated the experiences/knowledge/whatever I’ve gained at X, but with their closing, I’m looking forward to the opportunity to (something related to the job you’re applying for).

    2. SpaceNovice*

      You can mention that you’re looking for a new opportunity because your current one is closing but ALSO make sure to mention that you’re looking for a good company and using this as an opportunity to move. Research companies in the areas you want to move to. You can bring it up as a matter of fact that your workplace is closing. But make sure to say why you’re interested in a particular company (and don’t lie!). Make sure it’s obvious you’re not settling but using this as a chance to further your career.

      Look at companies that show up on local best places to work lists or have good employee treatment. Temping might be a good way to start, truthfully, as a lot of places might not hire you until you’re in the area. It really depends on what sort of position you’re aiming for.

      What type of position are you looking for? That might help us target advice a bit better.

      1. Reba*

        Yeah, I don’t think you need to address the closing business in the letter at all. It should be more about your fit for the specific potential job, not about why you’re leaving your old position or looking for A Job, period.

        Good luck!

        1. Legal Beagle*

          I agree. The reason you’re looking to leave your current job is usually something that comes up in an interview. It doesn’t need to be addressed in the cover letter.

          1. SpaceNovice*

            This is true. I take back my advice about the cover letter. They’ll ask in the interview and you can say then.

          2. soon 2 be former fed*

            Unless it is a change of industry or involves relocation or some other extenuating circumstances.

  35. Oh-So-Meh*

    So I’ve been looking for a new role and having some luck. Despite liking my coworkers well enough, the work has become stale and I’ve grown sour after a year of single-handedly supporting the department’s technical needs with no promotion out of the Jr role. I get verbal thanks, but after stating my desires multiple times, it still comes down to the basic work that just needs to get done, without significant improvement in interesting work to come IMO.

    How do I deal with feeling unmotivated? I can get myself back on track by telling myself that this is still my job that pays my paycheck, but it just feels empty when I get a “thanks for your hard work” these days. (I think my manager knows I’m not going to stay; she isn’t stupid.)

    1. Iris Eyes*

      Have you made a petition for a review of your job title? Now that your responsibilities don’t really match your job description (if that is the case) you can frame it as as much a housekeeping issue as one where you are looking for a promotion into a different roll, more that you want your title to reflect your actual roll there. That might or might not come with a raise but it would probably be a plus for your resume and your job search.

      1. Oh-So-Meh*

        I have. Multiple times. Starting in October of last year…

        It’s apparently a politics issue where my manager is non-technical and doesn’t want to promote me to the next level when there has been no input on my actual technical skill. (What if I promote you and you aren’t actually qualified in that title? Someone else needs to say that you are technically qualified.) She put forth a system to get feedback from a different technical manager, but I don’t think it’s working.

        I like her, but I really hate how this was handled. I feel like I’m stuck in no man’s land, and I’m not finding any good fits internally either (all looking for more experience than I have). I get the feeling that she knows I’m not going to stay, and is putting her political capital into getting a second me hired before I leave, rather than getting me the title I deserve.

        1. sunshyne84*

          You should discuss this more with the technical manager and keep track of the things you that you’ve been working on/accomplishments. And also looking outside…..keep your options open.

        2. Iris Eyes*

          Hmm, you say that you think she knows you have one eye out the door. IF that’s true then it doesn’t seem like she is motivated to do much about it. Now there have been stories around here where persistence pays off and occasionally gumption is just what you need. Can you find a new way to push this? Maybe following up with the other manager and asking what you can do to make signing off on this easier?

          1. Oh-So-Meh*

            It took a little bit, but I realized some weeks ago that even though there is an opening posted for my position, but up a couple levels, within the department; I’m just not interested anymore. If I’m not interested in staying in the department, then I need to be looking to leave because staying means doing the same exact work for years to come.

            I realized that what I wanted 6 months ago was a promotion, and what I want now is to leave.

            1. Iris Eyes*

              Sounds like you have clarity and that is a valuable thing. Best of luck in your search for new pastures.

    2. NB*

      My favorite salad to make at home is some kind of lettuce, goat cheese, sliced apples (pears work, too), pecans (sometimes candied!), and occasionally dried cranberries. I drizzle it with a super easy homemade honey-balsamic vinaigrette. You can dip the apples in lemon juice to keep them from turning brown in your lunch box.

      2. sunshyne84*

        lol That reminds me of a project we did in 6th grade. We had all kinds of materials to keep our apples from turning brown(dish soap, foil, plastic bags) and one group did use the lemon juice.

  36. Stephern*

    I’ve been attempting to eat a bit better for lunch and one thing I would like to explore is salads. I like them well enough (pre-prepared), but I have never actually made them from scratch on my own and I’m drawing a blank.

    For those of you that eat them regularly, how do you go about building a satisfying salad and how do you inject variety?

    1. Teapot librarian*

      I don’t eat salad regularly (I should!) but my technique for salads is: greens, a protein (eggs, tuna, beans, cheese, sometimes baked tofu), something crunchy (nuts, sesame sticks), something sweet (can be in the dressing), and at least one other vegetable.

      1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

        I think the mixture of textures is what makes a good salad, and I always include a protein or two to make it more filling.

      2. Parenthetically*

        Yes! I have a similar salad formula to ensure maximum texture variation — I like to add savory/tangy/creamy as well if I can, things like olives, feta/goat cheese, pickled things, avocado. I also like temperature variation, though that can be harder to pull off in an office setting if you’re trying to go for minimal containers.

    2. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      Basically, I have a salad bar in my kitchen.

      I keep a thing of mixed greens in my fridge. I have a variety of salad toppings on hand (crispy wonton strips, almonds, dried fruit, etc.). I’ll also keep several different kind of prepped veggies on hand and mix them in as I see fit. Sooo…edamame, sweet peppers (chopped), carrots (shredded), bite sized green beans, etc. And a few different dressings I like. If I want to make a meal out of it, I’ll add a handful of chicken.

      1. Emi.*

        I am constantly letting produce go bad in my fridge. Do you have a strategy for avoiding that? Do you buy them in really small quantities, or have a big family, or eat a ton of salad, or what?

        1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

          I buy A LOT of frozen veggies and either cook or defrost what I need as I need it.

          If it’s fresh, I buy in smaller quantities. I also *try* to eat a salad a day (be it a small one or one for dinner).

        2. Driving School Dropout*

          My favorite strategy for greens is Rubbermaid Freshworks containers. It’s specially vented and there’s a little grate raised up off the bottom to keep greens from getting slimy. It can also go on a regular refrigerator shelf so the greens aren’t taking up all the space in the veggie drawer. I find that it makes bagged salad last at least a week and a half, sometimes two weeks. Hardier greens like kale last two weeks with no slime! Generally the fruit and veggie drawers in my fridge work pretty well, so things like carrots and peppers and cucumbers will last a week or two, long enough for me to use them up.

        3. Alice*

          A lot of greens are great fresh and cooked. So, if you have a big bag of spinach or watercress or even arugula, you can eat some fresh and then cook the rest before it goes bad. You can eat the cooked greens right away — it’s amazing how a giant heap of leafy greens turns into a tiny pile of sauted/blanched/wilted greens; the giant bag of Healthy Vegetables that I couldn’t bring myself to face turns into a single portion. Or you could probably freeze it — the texture is already changed by the cooking so who cares.
          Exception: don’t freeze cooked carrots or potatoes (although I suppose a frozen-then-defrosted puree would be fine).
          Good preparations:
          – garlic and olive oil and salt, maybe red pepper too
          – blanch the greens, squeeze them dry, dress with soy sauce and sesame oil

        4. Specialk9*

          Buy frozen (it’s usually ripe when picked, instead of picked green and gas-ripened after transport) for cooking. (Eg I cook beans and rice from a mix, add frozen onions, cooked ground beef, an extra can of beans, shred a whole zucchini while cooking, then throw in generous amounts of frozen bell pepper strips and corn. One pot meal!)

          Bring all the makings of a salad and just buy lettuce from your salad bar (if you have one) – super light weight so cheap, and lettuce goes bad fast.

          1. Traveling Teacher*

            +1000 to buying frozen! Just check and make sure you’re only buying frozen peas, for example, not frozen peas plus second ingredient “salt.”

    3. Emi.*

      My strategy is to start with bagged salads of different types (“Asian salad,” “Southwest salad,” etc) and add things I think they’re lacking (chicken, mostly). After that, you can move on to recreating and/or altering your favorites, but you don’t have to build one from the ground up right away.

    4. CollegeAdmin*

      For me, the keys of a satisfying homemade salad are:

      1. Protein: I switch it up between hard boiled eggs and rotisserie chicken.
      2. Color: I hate a salad that’s 90% green lettuce. Bring in colorful veggies like carrots and bell peppers.
      3. Crunch: Salads are often a little soft. I throw in croutons, nuts, or seeds to add some more bite.
      4. Salad dressing: This is what constitutes “variety” for me. I have ranch, Italian, and two different kinds of caesar dressings on hand so I can pick whatever appeals to me that day. (But don’t add dressing until you are eating it! Otherwise it gets soggy.)

      2. Emily S.*

        These are excellent tips.

        My favorite salads have a mix of textures and flavors:
        -Some crunchy bits (like toasted panko breadcrumbs, or toasted nuts or seeds)
        -Creamy/smooth cheese (like either grated/shaved parmesan, or chunks of feta, etc.)
        -Sometimes, chewy bits like golden raisins (which I briefly plump up in vinegar first, in a pan)

        -Protein is often either a boiled egg (quartered), or cheese, or some bacon.

        -About dressings, I’ve recently gotten good at making my own (it’s pretty easy!), but for years I happily used bottled ones from the store. I like my salad to be very lightly dressed, but the dressing has to be flavorful, and work well with my other components.

    5. AnotherAlison*

      I make my own with baby spinach, shredded cheese, a cut up hard boiled egg, grape tomatoes, and sometimes precooked fajita chicken pieces, walnuts, or berries. I use a variety of store bought dressings. My main complaint with a big salad is time to eat. I invest 30 minutes of my lunch assembling and eating my salad. I don’t premix it because I don’t always get to eat it as planned on the day I bring it, so that takes time, and then so. much. chewing.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I hear ya. My teeth are misaligned so that makes chewing real FUN. Not. I have often thought that employers don’t actually want healthy employees, if they did they would be well aware that you cannot eat a healthy meal, use the restroom and so on inside of a half hour.

        1. Specialk9*

          I recently bought a really good blender (Ninja N600 pro – rated like Vitamix but under $100, got it less than half with dented box). It really blends stuff!

          I wonder if you could try more soups and smoothies, the kind with real veggies and greens blended up together? That could be quicker and still solid nutritionally.

          My basic smoothie: 1 c water, spinach, something sweet, half banana, 1/2 c fruit. Blend until smooth. Add water, probiotics, 1/2 c milk, and either Bob’s Red Mill protein powder or Greek yogurt – blend briefly to prevent froth.

          I’ve read that high end blenders heat soup after a couple minutes.

    6. Alex*

      Vegetarian here. I actually love using fruit in salads more than vegetables. Orange segments, strawberries (or any kind of berries) are great. I love slivered almonds. Peas are great for protein. You can also add some grains like farro or bulgar. I usually just drizzle a little olive oil on, but there is a pre-made ginger dressing I sometimes get that is also really flavorful and not highly caloric.

      1. Espeon*

        I recently had an amazing salad which included rocket, beetroot, orange segments and grilled halloumi *drool* So, seconding a little fruit involvement.

      2. ThatGirl*

        I find that adding some grains to my salad makes it feel more like a complete meal to me, especially if there’s also some protein – and it encourages me to eat lots of veggies along the way :)

        1. DD*

          Huge YES to adding grains to salads to make it more satisfying! I’m partial to freekeh for the nutty, green, chewy texture, but I like a lot of others–brown rice, quinoa, purple rice, wild rice or even couscous though that’s not a grain.

    7. ContentWrangler*

      My favorite salad is really simple and easy to make: Greens (I just buy the spring mix in a big tub) plus feta and pumpkin seeds (found in the bulk foods section of grocery stores near the nuts usually). I find a lot of premade dressings too sweet, so I just use a mix of olive oil and balsamic vinegar.

    8. Temperance*

      I do salad-in-a-jar that I prepare for the week on Sundays. I try and get a good variety of vegetables so it’s not boring.

      1. SoCalHR*

        I second this – go look up “salad in a jar” on pinterest. It saves on prep time and keeps things fresh. Also, the Vlassic brand specialty pickles (I think they are called Garden something or other with a smaller brown paper label) are GREAT jars to use for salad in a jar, its a win-win that I like pickles.

      2. Judy (since 2010)*

        I like the recipes on organizeyourselfskinny dot com, I use them for my mason jar salads.

        If you go that way, and need to buy jars, buy them from Rural King or Tractor Supply. They’re much cheaper there.

    9. BadWolf*

      I like a lot of variety in salads and have been discovering new things that you can just plop on salads. Like, sliced up mushrooms (for a long time, I foolishly thought mushrooms had to be cooked), sliced up zucchini (same, thought it had to be cooked). While I like vegies, I don’t like to gnaw on a big hunk of broccoli, so I like to cut everything up fairly small.

      My favorite grocery store stocks interesting things – so they have these cheese faux croutons that are tasty. I think Dole puts up something called broccoli slaw which is a couple assorted shredded vegies that’s great on a salad.

      I concur with other posters that I like to hit protein, other vegies, crunchy bits and at least some dressing.

    10. All Anon*

      Google mason jar salads. it’s a thing. you layer them into the jar at night and shake it out to dress it when you are ready to eat.

    11. Totally Minnie*

      I use a lot of prepackaged salads and cole slaws, and then I add in other items for variety. Usually I’ll add a protein (a hard boiled egg or some meat left over from dinner) and some sort of crunchy item (tortilla strips, sunflower seeds, or even goldfish crackers if I’m feeling a little lazy).

    12. SpaceNovice*

      Two types of greens–two types of lettuce at least if not field greens. Full heads of lettuce keep longer and you can pull off the leaves you need as you do it. Red lettuce and butter lettuce are pretty good. The hydroponic stuff with roots is a little more expensive but it keeps the entire week, generally.

      What you switch out the most is the toppings and dressing. Sliced almonds, shredded cheese, apple slices, various types of nuts, various types of proteins, dried fruit pieces, other vegetables, tomato types, croutons/bread options and others.

      1. SpaceNovice*

        Also, if you do boiled eggs for your protein–get an egg cooker! Those things are life changing. One of the few specialized kitchen gadgets that’s worth getting. You can have soft/medium/hard boiled eggs in under 20 minutes (and then you gotta throw them in ice, obviously).

        1. epi*

          My husband and I recently got into cooking eggs in our Instant Pot. It’s magic! They are consistently easy to peel and taste really good.

          The rack that came with ours was too small to fit a dozen at a time without stacking them, but we a had a collapsible steamer basket that fit inside and did the trick. 1 cup of water in the bottom, 5 minutes on high pressure, 5 minutes of natural release, then into an ice bath like normal.

          Eggs also make a great snack. One egg is pretty filling and around 70 calories depending on the size.

          1. SpaceNovice*

            Instant Pots are also good for egg steaming! That sounds great. I might have to consider that if I get one of those.

    13. WellRed*

      I eat salad every day. Lots of color and crunch (red cabbage! radishes! Carrots!celery! ). I am a lazy cook, so I often by pre-shredded of the vegetables available that way. More crunch in the form of nuts (peanuts, almonds, cashews) or croutons or sunflower seeds or those crunchy Asian thingies. A protein: eggs, tuna, cheese, black beans, leftover grilled chicken breast, deli turkey, pepperoni. And a really really excellent dressing.

    14. MamaGanoush*

      Unless you like soft wilted salad, keep salad dressing separate and add it right before eating. I also put crunchy bready things, nuts, and bacon in a separate container because I want them to be crunchy. Except for panzanella or fatoush, in which case, the longer it all hangs out together, the better.

    15. epi*

      I typically make salads without greens, just things I can leave whole or that are pretty hardy and I know won’t brown or wilt over a few days. Then I make a big batch on the weekend, portion it out into 5 containers, seal them, and don’t open them again until it’s time to eat. If you want to do it this way, you could also look for greens you won’t have to chop, such as baby greens or spinach, so you won’t have as much of an issue with wilting. Typically my salad base is chickpeas, then I add a bunch of vegetables and a little oil or dressing (another hedge against browning).

      Good combinations:
      – chickpeas, apples, red onion, goat cheese, balsamic vinegar, and olive oil.
      – 1/2 chickpeas, 1/2 black beans, salsa, corn, chopped bell pepper, queso fresco, hot sauce, and olive oil.
      – chickpeas, green peas, goat cheese, prepared pesto
      – chickpeas, tomatoes, cucumber, feta, chicken (my husband bakes it with za’atar and I think lemon)

      You can also look at slaws for similar hardiness. Buy prepared ones or shred almost anything (I like a mix of apples and cabbage) and mix in any dressing you like. You can also make just the slaw ahead, and add it to greens you just opened as both the dressing and the topping. They also make a good snack since they are crunchy and salty.

    16. Llama Wrangler*

      The two biggest things I’ve learned is that I need at least 5 ingredients and it needs to be a LARGE quantity (like, a quart container full) for me to feel satisfied. I always eat the same food every day for lunch for a week, so I might not be the best person to ask about variety, but my strategies for making interesting salads are:
      -Do all the prep at the beginning of the week (leave any crunchy things and dressing in containers on the side)
      -Mix textures (many people have said this) – I often will roast some vegetables (potatoes, squash, onions) and I usually try to have something crunchy; if you’re vegetarian tofu croutons can be great for this
      -Mix up dressings (my go tos are yogurt based; oil and vinegar but switch the vinegar; tahini-based; and horesradish/mustard-based)
      -Think about marinating or pickling some things to add extra flavor
      -Plenty of protein (my go-tos are tofu croutons, roasted chickpeas, roasted tempeh crumbles, or a soft-boiled egg)

      Also, I often make vegetable heavy pasta salads (75% veggies) and use either yogurt as a dressing or a vegetable puree if I want a change but still want lots of veggies.

    17. Jemima Bond*

      I’ll just give you a recipe for my favourite salad in case it’s something you’d like to try. Quantities are a bit “as much as you like” but this would probably do two meals; adjust accordingly. Some cold chicken to go with it would be nice. It’s a Lebanese salad called fattoush:

      2x little gem lettuce
      Cucumber (half probs enough)
      Radishes, roughly sliced
      Tomato (I like halved cherry ones)
      Spring onions, chopped [scallions is the US term I believe]
      Optional green [bell] pepper, roughly chopped
      Fresh mint and fresh curly parsley – over here you can buy packets of this in the supermarket that weigh about 40g – use all of one of those if you have similar. You want a good handful of each when it’s de-stalked and chopped.

      Dressing – olive oil, lemon juice, pomegranate molasses (optional), sumac (a middle eastern spice which you can get in normal supermarkets here; if not you could maybe order online – it’s not expensive but it is essential in this dish), finely chopped garlic, some wine vinegar if it needs it

      Pitta bread, toasted and broken up. Or other flatbread if that is what you have/can get easily.

      Prepare the veg, mix with the dressing, add the pitta pieces at the last minute.
      You could do the veg at home and take to work in a Tupperware with the dressing in a little jar but tbh it will be ok if you add dressing before you leave for work. Just be sure to add the pitta just before eating so it isn’t soggy. Also it is totally fine if your pitta has gone a bit stale!

    18. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      Invest in some different olive oils and vinegars, if you don’t have a good store near you for those look online. For me, it depends on the time of year on how I build my salad. Since it’s spring here in PA, I like to make the mixed spring greens, some strawberries, nuts, a protein, cheese (usually blue or feta) and some other veggies that go well with sweet like snow peas, celery, carrots, etc. Then I use a 3 to 1 ratio of olive oil to vinegar (usually a half or whole teaspoon as the ratio). I bought a sorrento lemon olive oil and a mixed berry balsamic vinegar and it was super tasty! It’s soooo much better than bottled dressing.

    19. DD*

      I often have a Tupperware of roasted vegetables sitting around in my fridge. Depending on the season, they could include sweet potatoes, pumpkin/squash, bell peppers, onion, zucchini, turnips, asparagus, etc. They take some time to prepare, but it’s basically hands-free time, so not a lot of work. Roasted veggies make salads magically more substantial and delicious! Blistered grape tomatoes (broil them for 7-8 minutes) are great, too.

      In the morning, I toss some of these on my greens, add some protein (like so many others have already mentioned), and pack a separate container of dressing. They make appearance on my dinner table quite a bit, too. :)

    20. Beth Jacobs*

      All the advice above is great! I always have some fresh greens and tomatoes in the kitchen, but if I forget to buy other fresh ingredients, I have these pantry staples: chickpeas, olives, sun dried tomatoes, kidney beans and sweetcorn. I think a lot of people struggle with healthy eating because buying and using up fresh vegetables in time is difficult, but canned and frozen are perfectly good alternatives.

    21. Penfold*

      Personally I define salad as “stuff atop a giant pile of greens” and am a fan of taking whatever leftovers are around and making those into a salad. Recent examples include cheese steak salad (warmed up steak & cheese & onions on top of lettuce, chopped up pickles and tomatoes added in). Burger salad (same formula, works with burgers of all sorts). Pad thai salad, fried rice salad, falafel salad… This technique uses up greens and leftovers at a pretty good clip.

    22. Librarygal30*

      I usually do grocery store salads, and add chicken hunks. Takes me about 2 minutes to shred the chicken at home, and then into the lunch bag it goes until I’m ready to eat. The dressing goes on right before I eat it, so no soggy lettuce. Now that summer is coming, I might mix up the protein a bit, since I’m not a fan of eggs.

    23. Yetanotherjennifer*

      I recently read somewhere else about including cooked whole grains in a salad to help it be more filling and satisfying. Chick peas are a great way to add protein. And don’t forget that a salad doesn’t have to have greens. You could make a salad out of roasted veggies and potatoes with some dressing. Or bread salad when tomatoes are in season.

    24. LabTech*

      My top suggestion is figure out what vegetables you like to eat, and incorporate those into your salad. For me that includes cucumbers, bell peppers, tomatoes, radishes, beets, peppers, and broccoli. Usually I’ll mix some of those in with bagged, chopped lettuce or spinach, then dress it with pepper, and balsamic vinegar or lemon juice. If that’s a little too acidic for your taste, any other dressing will do the trick.

      It’s also important to be strategic with your veggie combinations: vary the texture and colors enough to make it appealing, and use enough “wet” veggies to give it moisture so you won’t have to add as much dressing. Beets are also good for making it sweet so that you won’t have to add as much dressing, as would chopped fruits (apple, dried cranberries, or even strawberries are pretty common choices)

      You’ll also need to add protein so that it fills you up. Beans, hardboiled eggs, cheese crumbles, chopped nuts, or meat are all good choices for this. Finally, garnishing it with one of the above will also make it more visually appealing.

      I normally make these salads for dinner, so I don’t have any good tips on longevity or how well they travel. Happy salads!

    25. Traveling Teacher*

      The biggest discovery I made in pre-making salads is that: salads don’t have to have lettuce! It’s the ingredient that goes bad the fastest, so why not skip it if you’re prepping salads to last the week? I also find that prepping mini-jars of dressing on the side makes the salad stay fresh a lot longer (I have a baby and saved glass jars from baby food–you can buy little jars of cheap applesauce/fruit purées and then use for this purpose if you don’t already have something).

      My favorite go-to salads are:
      Protein Salad:
      -Chickpeas, (just make sure you rinse them well and rub with a paper towel to remove skins–prevents gassiness!)
      -Cherry Tomatoes (or sliced, but cherry tomatoes hold up better if prepping for 3+ days ahead of time),
      -cooked green beans (I steam a bag of frozen beans, which is super cheap and healthy),
      -cubed potatoes (red or regular, red holds up a bit better)
      -And diced hard boiled eggs
      -Plus a Spicy Honey Mustard Dressing, either homemade or store-bought.

      No-Cook Greek Salad:
      -Diced Cucumbers
      -Cherry or Diced fresh tomatoes
      -Feta
      -Chopped Kalamata or Black olives
      -Greek dressing (Creamy or just olive oil and balsamic)

      You can add meat or tofu to either, but I find that it’s really not needed, so you can save lots of $£€ by eating vegetarian salads that still fill you up! And, both of these have minimal prep, especially if you do them in a big batch! If you google “salad in a jar” or “bento salad” on youtube, you will find endless variety. These two salads are from one of my fave youtubers, TheDomesticGeek.

    26. Green Goose*

      What I’ve liked doing is bringing bag (like a Trader Joe’s bag) and have lettuce, cherry tomatoes, grilled chicken (that I make at home on Sunday), a deli meat, and then anything else I’d like to put in the salad but keep everything in their original bags/boxes and then each day I will make the salad at work and I can choose what to add each day to switch it up – having the two meat options makes it less boring for me and then I don’t have to repack my lunch each day.

  37. Sparkles*

    I have been searching for a part-time job for a few months now. (I am currently full time, but with school full time and work full time I am dying). I have had 5 interviews and all have been a no. The thing is I feel like I am nailing the interview- our personalities match really well. I am not doubting my abilities, but I am super frustrated. Of those 5 interviews, only 2 have gotten back with me to tell me no (they went with someone more “seasoned”). I just want to state my frustration with the fact that I had TWO interviewers tell me they really liked me and then completely ghost me. No rejection call or email. Nothing. Tried following up with them and couldn’t even get an answer that way. Why can’t people at least have the common courtesy to get back with their candidates?!?!?!?!

    1. Marnie*

      I feel you on being ghosted. I had a second interview at a place and was told I was a top candidate and that they’d follow up with me soon. A week later I hadn’t heard back so I send a quick follow-up email, only to get a standard form letter saying they reviewed my application but were pursuing other candidates. I was totally shocked.

      I wish employers cared enough to even give rejects themselves; we shouldn’t have to hunt for them.

    2. Overeducated*

      This is tough. I feel like job offers vs. rejections have in no way lined up with great interview experiences for me; I’ve had multiple ones I really thought I rocked that didn’t work out, and ones I left thinking “no way” that I’ve been offered, so that sense of meshing just isn’t everything. Better luck next time, and sorry they are being rude and ghosting.

    3. AJ*

      No advice, just wanted to say I’m sorry and I totally understand your frustration. Nothing is worse then investing all that time and effort and not hearing anything in response. I’m dealing with something similar except its for internal positions within my company, both the ghosting and being told I dont have enough experience. Maybe its because I’m a temp, and they don’t feel that I deserve the same respect that the full time people get when they apply to transfer. My temporary position is ending in 3 weeks, so not hearing anything back despite following up is really sending me into an anxiety spiral.

    4. Green Goose*

      That is super frustrating. One thing that can happen if you are applying at non-profits or other organizations where things can change quickly, there might be a lot of moving pieces going on behind the scenes.
      I recently hired someone to work PT for me, and I felt like there was an intricate web behind the scenes that I had to jump through and there were so many different people that had to approve different aspects of the position and of course certain people were on vacation or some other issue and I was unable to let the interviewee know anything until I heard back. It worked out, but I hated that I was forced to leave someone hanging. This may have happened with at least one of the ghosters. Good luck!

  38. Teapot librarian*

    I still haven’t gotten my act together to finish the PIP for my Hoarder Employee (too much to do all around) though I did send him a strongly worded email the other day that basically said “I DO have the authority to make decisions for your part of the office and you need to accept that.” Here’s my question: about a year and a half ago, I issued a written reprimand to Hoarder Employee for insubordination (technically, failure to follow instructions). I was going to put him on a PIP for his communication skills, my thinking being that if he didn’t improve, I could let him go, but if I went the disciplinary route, I would suspend him, and that would just piss him off and he would appeal it. But as I thought about it more, I realized since I’d started down the progressive discipline path, I should continue on it. What do you say, smart AAM readers?

    [An aside: part of why this has taken me so long is that about a week and a half ago, I found evidence that my predecessor had been running a side business out of this office. Since my predecessor and Hoarder Employee were thick as thieves, I suspect that Hoarder Employee might have been involved as well. THAT would be a clear firing offense, so I’ve been distracted trying to find evidence.]

    1. fposte*

      If there’s an existing structure, you should follow it. But I also think you should do whichever you’d do fastest at this point, and the PIP isn’t looking like it would be that.

    2. Evil HR Person*

      Is the Hoarder Employee part of a Collective Bargaining Agreement? The fact that he’d appeal a corrective action threw me for a little loop. I don’t like to issue corrective actions more than a week after an incident happens, but if it’s an ongoing thing, then it’s fine to put it on hold for a little bit. Nevertheless, you can still collect information regarding the side business AFTER you put him on a PIP or give him the corrective action. If you find something, you can fire him then without having to follow through on either of those things. Think of it this way: I’m putting Arya on a PIP for not completing Task A accurately and on time. She has 30 days to improve. In the meantime, I find out that Arya stole the coffeemaker from the break room, which is a fireable offense. I fire her for stealing the coffeemaker, the PIP is no longer relevant.

      Read your policies regarding disciplinary/corrective actions and terminations. Do you HAVE to follow all the steps prior to termination, or does the policy say you can skip the steps at any time. If so, I’d skip steps for egregious behavior. Talk to your own Evil HR Person (if you have one) and let them guide you or help you sort this out. Or, if you lack an HR, talk to a fellow supervisor or even your own.

      1. Teapot librarian*

        Thankfully (as a manager, though as a member of society I think unions are a good thing) he’s not part of a CBA. All employees have an appeal right, whether part of a CBA or not. You’re right that I shouldn’t let myself be distracted by the side business possibility. I should just do what I need to for the insubordination and then figure out the side business piece later.

        1. Bibliovore*

          Been there. Done that. PIP is the way to go.
          Take the job description.
          Break it down for bullet points.
          Have a coaching meeting with employee.
          Go over the expectations in writing.
          Follows directions. Collection development benchmarks. (as in gets rid of stuff)
          Completes tasks in a timely manner.
          Arrives on-time.
          Accurately completes tasks.
          Communication.
          Then Document.
          In 4 weeks. Have another meeting. Discuss each failure to meet expectations.
          Give an oral warning that failure to meet expectations could result in disciplinary action or termination. Summarize the meeting, put in writing. Email employee and HR. Subject line Oral Warning.
          In 2 weeks- have a coaching meeting showing supporting evidence of failure to meet expectations.
          In 4 weeks from then. Create a written warning with input from HR. Outline the failure of the employee to meet expectations with supporting documentation.

          In 2 weeks have a meeting with the employee to discuss the failure to meet expectations of the position.

          In 2 weeks create a final written warning with the input of hr. Have another meeting with employee with the physical letter with documentation.

          In 4 weeks meet with HR with documentation and start termination paperwork.

          Meet with employee note that due to their failure to meet the expectations of the position that they are being terminated.

          yes. that is 16 weeks. but you have documented, coached, and communicated clearly.

    3. MysteryFan*

      In my experience, (Federal government) as a manager, the easiest way BY FAR to “fire” an employee, was to catch them in a Conduct Violation. Performance documentation can work, but it is slow, and tedious, because the manager has to closely monitor the work to make sure it is meeting(or not) appropriate standards. If you have an idea that the employee is involved in something that is clearly against company rules, I think it would be worth it to investigate that avenue of thought.

      1. SnarkyLibrarian*

        Do you have a time limit on progressive discipline? At libraries I have worked for, if you don’t document and address the issue within a certain time frame the clock resets and you have to start at step 1 of the discipline process all over again.

        1. Teapot librarian*

          I think it’s within 90 days of the incident (though you’re right I should double check) but even if the clock resets, previous disciplinary actions for the same or similar events allows you to skip earlier steps.

          1. bibliovore*

            here is a yes but, if an employee is in the middle of a pip and evidence of conduct violation comes to light that would supersede the process. If there is no one egregious act, then the progressive discipline stands with many opportunities for the employee to succeed.

  39. AvonLady Barksdale*

    My office is interviewing for a bunch of positions, and something happened yesterday that made me curious. I am not involved in hiring for these positions and would only occasionally cross job-related paths with these new hires. Someone came in and interviewed with a colleague whose office is right near mine. I didn’t see this woman when she came in nor while she was walking by. But I heard her. She had a loud, piercing, persistent laugh. (Side note: I have no idea how an interview can be so funny, but the colleague interviewing her is very nice and relaxed, so it wasn’t too shocking that there would be laughter.) I heard this laugh for several minutes and for the first time in years, I almost left my office and asked what the hell that noise was. So it got me thinking: have you ever not hired, or seriously considered not hiring, someone because of a trait they possess that annoys you? I’m not talking about tics or not making eye contact, I’m talking about things like someone’s vocal timbre or laugh. I can see myself getting very turned off by persistent vocal fry, for example. Would it matter if you had two very qualified candidates and one was just more annoying than the other? We all have annoying habits and traits, for sure, that come out after we’re around for a while, but what if they come up during the hiring process?

    1. Chocolate Teapot*

      I once read an article about getting promoted and one of the (boss) interviewees described an employee who was an OK worker but a promotion would mean working more closely together and boss found them annoying so did not put them forward.

    2. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I’d have a really hard time hiring someone that I was going to have to work closely with if I knew they had a really annoying habit.

    3. WellRed*

      We hired someone who, it was noted, had quite the laugh and giggle. While she was fine at the job, the constant giggling and shrieking while on the phone (she was a reporter) was miserable and garnered the occassional complaint. Five years after she’s been gone and that’s still what she’s most remembered for.

    4. Nessun*

      We took over a year to find a replacement for an EA who had left, because the C-suite person she had supported was the PICKIEST MAN EVER. He hated this one’s laugh, he didn’t like that one’s tattoo, the other one missed an (unrequired) item on his imaginary skills list, another one had a ‘weird accent’…it was incredible and frustrating and served him right he had no support for ages!!

    5. Free Meerkats*

      I didn’t get hired the first time I applied for the job I have been doing for 27 years now. While I was my current supervisor’s first choice, his then boss, and I quote from the written stuff I saw many years later, didn’t want me because I “have strange hair and was wearing a weird tie tack.” It was the late 80s and I had a perm, which in hindsight didn’t look great on me. And the tie tack was a 3D sterling frog my Mom had given me – and I still wear it regularly when I’m forced to wear a tie.

      The person he did want was a Drama Llama of the highest caliber who created so much work and angst for everyone around her. It’s amazing she lasted the 5 years she did. I got hired in an expansion of the program about 2 years later.

    6. TootsNYC*

      I once had two very closely matched candidates. I was having trouble deciding, so I called their references.

      One candidate’s reference said, “Give me your home number. I’m going to call you later.” The reference called that night and said, “This person is very good, but incredibly talkative. No, I mean really–like, it’s compulsive or something. She never shuts up. At all. So, she’s really good. But… I felt obligated to tell you. This is my personal opinion, not from the company, and I’ll deny it. But I thought you should know.”

      I hired the other person. (We don’t need two of me! No, kidding–I’m talkative, but according to this reference, the candidate was more talkative than anyone else in the world.)

  40. Queen of Cans & Jars*

    A question for other job seekers in rural areas: Do you reapply for positions at the same company? I’m in an area where there are a few large-ish employers, and in a field (HR) where there is not an overwhelming number of jobs. I’ve applied to most of them already when an HR position becomes available, and have only gotten the generic “thanks, but we’re going with other candidates.” If they post those positions again in the future, do you think it’s OK if I reapply? At a certain point, I’m going to run out of places to apply, and I’m really not keen on driving an hour each way to the nearest city for work. (I’ve also been looking for work online, but nothing’s panned out there yet either.)

    And feel free to commiserate if you are feeling totally worthless because of a long, fruitless job search! ☹

    1. Elle*

      I’ve reapplied for different positions at a large-ish employer in my area. I adjusted my resume each time (and cover letter obviously) and made a genuine effort to apply to jobs that actually fit me and not just anything that might be open. I think it was the third time, over about two years, that I got accepted to a position which in hindsight was the best fit for me of the three. I will probably do the same thing when I move on to another employer in this area.

      1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

        A success story! Thank you! I do make sure to tailor my resume & cover letter with each company. I just want to be sure they’re not like “Her again??” when they see my name come up!

    2. Frustrated Optimist*

      The subject of reapplying at companies has come up here in the past. I think the consensus is that if it’s been, say, six months or more since you last applied, sure, you can try again. And update/revise at least your cover letter — maybe your resume, too, especially if you have new skills since your last application.

      As far as commiseration, I can offer that, too. I am approaching the three-year mark, and it’s unreal. Thankfully I am still employed, but I am stagnating in my current position. It’s getting to the point where it feels like one step forward, two steps back.

      Beyond continuing to apply for posted jobs; trying to network with people I know, as well as people I don’t know; and researching local companies, I am at a loss for what to do. Nothing seems to work. And I’m in a decent-sized metropolitan area; I can only imagine the limitations of being in a rural area.

      1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

        I’ve been looking for just about 2 years now, and I guess I should be thankful I’m still employed, but it’s really hard to be thankful when I am overcome with dread at the sound of my alarm every morning. :(

        1. Frustrated Optimist*

          This might help: I was lamenting to a friend on how I’m being marginalized in my current job, and, as a result, I don’t have a lot to do most days. She offered this insight: “Look at it this way: [your current company] is funding your job search!” True!!

          1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

            OMG, that’s exactly my problem, too, but that is a great way to look at it!!

    3. Cheerchairperson*

      Yes reapply – you don’t know what the next candidate pool is going to be like, but also if you’re in work, taking on projects etc maybe you have more to add to your application.

    4. Liane*

      It can depend on the company/organization and how their application process works. A lot of big retailers, which almost always have openings, keep your application active in their ATS for X months, which can be anywhere from 1-12 months. So as long as you have every location you want to work selected, you don’t have to reapply for X months.
      On the other hand is the local teaching hospital. TH has a number of the same positions but in different departments, like Appointments I, II, & III. Every one is posted separately with different application windows. So you have to go in and update you application for each one, even if you are applying for several at once. Hiring managers and HR are open that they welcome repeat or simultaneous applications for these types of jobs, because if you’re high-ranked in one pool, you may be #1 in the next. So there’s also a cultural factor in play.

    6. The New Wanderer*

      I’m getting to the point where most of the jobs I can apply for (with a theoretical chance of getting them) are ones I already applied to, gotten nowhere, and are still being posted. Some might be auto-posted, but others were gone for a few months and are now showing up again. I’m not in a rural area at all, but jobs in my niche field are not super common.

      Maybe I’m just jaded but I’m not bothering to reapply. There are one or two that I’m occasionally tempted by, but I think I wore out my welcome, so to speak. At one company I made it to the all-day in person interview stage, heard I wasn’t selected for that role but might be considered for another, expressed my interest once informally and once formally a few months later, and it was basically left at “we know you’d like to work here, we’ll let you know”). Which is fine, but it’s frustrating when those same jobs are pushed at me every week via Glassdoor and LinkedIn notifications. I wish you could add “NOT this company” or “NOT this job” to job search parameters!

  41. Not Maeby But Surely*

    Input/advice would be appreciated! There is a management position (outside my current company) that is open and for which I have the required industry background. I have 15+ years in the industry. My mgmt. experience in this industry is limited to managing workloads, scheduling, and training. In a prior unrelated industry job I was a store manager responsible for all of that, plus hiring, firing, inventory, keeping tabs on productivity costs, etc. This experience is quite dated now, but I feel confident in being able to pick it up quickly.

    How absurd is it to apply for a Branch Manager position in current industry with the above experience but without experience creating Business Development Plans and managing a large budget? Are those things that can be learned on the job in a professional office? For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t hesitate to apply for the same kind of position at my current job, because I feel my superiors would have a good feel on whether they thought I could do it. But we have a different structure here and it could be years before a similar position opens up.

    1. TootsNYC*

      Apply.

      Let them decide you’re not qualified.

      And, many times employers are willing to see how those “not quite” skills will stretch.

      Do some thinking on your own, and write a cover letter that explain how YOU think those skills would apply.

  42. Vicky*

    Hi Guys,

    I’ve been waiting all week to share with you this ridiculous job application I found in my email the other day. I sent this out back when I was a wee one and it shows as I apply for the incredibly generic position of “office assistant”

    I also looked over the resume I’d attached and I had included my university grades in detail lol

    I sound like a spam bot, enjoy!

    “To whomever it may concern,

    I’m very interested in your position as office assistant. I don’t a great amount of experience but I’m energetic, a quick learner, and feel I’d be a great asset to your office. While I don’t have a great amount of experience, I enjoyed the work and was well liked by my colleagues. I don’t mind working hard and I love to keep busy.

    Hope to hear from you soon.

    Please find my resume attached

    regards,”

    4. Jemima Bond*

      Awww it’s not so bad. Although I liked “I don’t mind working hard” because to me it reads like, I don’t exactly mind working hard but generally I’d prefer not to” :-D

  43. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

    How do you all muster and express enthusiasm in cover letters when you’re not really all that excited?

    Background: I’ve been in my position for 13 months. The job itself I like and can actually see the position evolving into a really interesting place, and I enjoy my co-workers for the most part. However my senior leadership has grown increasingly demanding, critical, and negative over the past few months. There is no logical organization in our department that would facilitate the growth of my position that I previously mentioned. All of my colleagues in my peer group are looking for other employment.

    Because I do like my actual position, and the environment is not so toxic that I need to leave tomorrow, I’m having trouble expressing enthusiasm for jobs that I’ve found that could be really great opportunities. Maybe it doesn’t help that I’m having drama at home as well as work, but it’s exhausting to sift through positions and find ones that I want to apply for, and then have to go through lengthy online applications that my resume could easily stand in for, and then know that a cover letter could help me stand out but I’m too exhausted mentally to write one.

    Thoughts?

    1. foolofgrace*

      One, you don’t have to come up with a separate cover letter from scratch for every position you apply to. Bite the bullet and draft one that you can pull out of your hat and customize to the degree necessary.

      Two, why don’t you try just no-pressure making a list of what you would find good in a new job, and what you like about your current job? Then take the best from the lists and use it to flesh out your draft cover letter. I hope I haven’t misunderstood your question.

    2. Denise*

      Hmm…maybe excitement isn’t really what’s needed. I think in the past I’ve settled on a tone that more conveys earnest interest that enthusiasm, and I have reason to think those cover letters were effective.

      Really, you don’t know yet whether you should be excited or enthusiastic about the job yet. But if you focus on opportunities that you are genuinely interested in *in themselves* it shouldn’t be difficult to muster up genuine interest.

      1. Washi*

        I agree. I think my opening and closing tend to convey some enthusiasm/interest, but the meat of it is really about why I’m qualified, and that’s more fact than enthusiasm.

        Maybe you can keep the same intro/conclusion for all your cover letters and just focus on tweaking the middle?

    3. Cheerchairperson*

      so far I’ve had luck with I’ve was really happy to come across this role – summing up my relevant experience like I was so happy to come across x job as I have x years experience in x and I am really x about your company’s values (or one or two relevant sentences). I make it pretty short and then largely talk about how my experience matches the role. I’m sure its great to sound really passionate but it’s better to get an application in rather than the ‘perfect’ one. I’m really bad at trying t0 sound passionate about a company as I feel like a weird suck up -if you think about it they probably get loads of people doing that but what they actually want is the person with skills.
      This site has definitely helped me improve my cover letters but it’s also made me think there’s some magic formula I’ll hit upon in a paragraph that’ll get me the interview and it has to be perfect. Whereas the reality is most peoples cover letters aren’t any good so the fact you’ve put any thought into it at all and got the skills means you’re ahead of the curb. I read somewhere that when you’re fully stuck you have to accept being average over perfect. What I did to push through a bad spate of applications was apply to something completely beyond me – I was never going to get an interview but somehow it took the perfectionist pressure off and then meant I found it easier to apply to other things. I did also say if you can’t view it as a game rather than a judgement on you’re abilities that can also help take the pressure off.

  44. Okaythen*

    So, I had an interview last week, they finished checking my references early this week but haven’t given me an update as to whether they are moving forward and offering me the job… it’s been two days since they contact all my references…

    1. A Person*

      It depends, if it’s a big bureaucracy like where I work, they might have to send your hiring package through multiple people and HR for approval before they extend an official offer after the reference check. I would check back next week.

    2. o.b.*

      Can’t say this is the case for sure without more details, but consider that if they have multiple people in the running, before they make a decision they probably are contacting everyone’s references, not just yours. So I wouldn’t assume that just because they spoke to your references earlier, they’re not still waiting on (or just finishing up) other reference calls

  45. Jessica J.*

    I’m so ready for the weekend. My coworker walked out recently because our boss wanted her to travel to Las Vegas for business. Some limited day travel in our state is normal (though rare) but there has never been overnight or out of state travel. My coworker lives with her grandfather and didn’t want to be away overnight. She also confessed to have struggled with a heavy gambling addiction in the past. She’s been “clean” for almost 3 years and would not want to set foot in a casino (the company booked rooms in a casino hotel and the people the company is dealing with scheduled complimentary dinners/show in a different casino each night.) She left because she was told it was not optional. It was 99% about the gambling she said and not so much about her grandfather. She told me she was offered a job with one of our vendors. The rep has known her for a long time and offered her a job in the past. We don’t deal with personal or confidential information or trade secrets so there’s no reason she couldn’t go work for the vendor. I’m happy for her but with her gone that makes way more work for the rest of us and it is about to be our busy season and a new person will take months to train and the hiring process hasn’t started yet. Thanks for letting me vent. Is it 5:00 yet?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      That really sucks for you, but kudos to her for setting boundaries. Who’s going to go now that she can’t?

    2. CityMouse*

      Good for your coworker for putting her health first. I hope this is a lesson to your boss that you cannot do that kind of thing to people. Now someone else has to go anyway and you are understaffed and need to hire a new person. I am sorry you are overworked but happy to hear about coworker’s shiny steel spine.

      1. Emily S.*

        Agreed. Self-care and health/well-being should come first, so good for her.

        Jessica – I’m sorry that creates a tougher situation at your work. Do you have the kind of rapport with your manager where you could say, “Look, is there any way you’d consider asking Coworker to come back?”

        Also – are there other colleagues who might back you up in requesting that?

        1. TootsNYC*

          If I were coworker, I wouldn’t come back. I don’t think that if I were the OP, I could suggest it.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Boy, I hope that Vegas trip is actually important enough to lose an employee over. wow.

  46. Overeducated*

    New job still has a steep learning curve, and this week has had some frantic and frustrating drop everything moments. At this point I really respect my coworkers as very smart, serious people and am grateful that my boss hired a team with such complementary areas of expertise, because we have a lot to do!

    Unfortunately it looks like we are losing as many people over thr next six months as we gained in new hires this year. So that stinks, given that my boss told me in my interview that their primary challenge in the last couple years has been getting sufficient work done with insufficient staff. Argh. How do you keep your head above water when thats the case?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I am not too sure. I guess you go into “survival mode” where there is a different priority every day.

    2. Jules the Third*

      You float – do what you can and let the rest flow. Head down and focus, keep your boss aware of your priorities and progress and what’s going to not get done.

  47. Famous Blue Raincoat*

    So, we’re coming up on the dreaded “self-review” season at work, and I always hate that. This year it’s more fraught than usual because of the following factors:

    -I’ve had three different managers in the last year, two of whom are no longer with the company and current one who works out of a different office and manages me mostly through email

    -My title changed last year but my actual work duties don’t really coincide with it, in part because of re-orgs and in part because my old manager had a different vision for this role than the other two managers… so I have changed goals multiple times and there’s no one else in my job title or even a similar position that I can measure myself against as a benchmark

    -Most of my work is actually with and for people in my department that I don’t report to directly, so they are in a much better position to assess me than my actual manager

    Given all of this, I still have the same basic question: In a self-review, is the greater danger of over-inflating your rating or underestimating it? I don’t want to appear out of touch by ranking myself too high but I don’t want to undervalue myself to my new manager either, especially since my bonus rides on my overall performance rating for the year. Personally, I think the fact that I accomplished what I did this year in the backdrop of this much change is pretty great; but should those circumstances even be factored into my self assessment?

    I would love to hear others’ thoughts about this topic! I’m sure I’m not the only one who hates self reviews!

    1. SoCalHR*

      Be as objective as possible. Don’t give yourself a score without being able to specifically justify it (even if the form doesn’t ask for comment, be able to have those responses ready. 1) it will help you make sure you are objectively giving yourself the right score, but 2) your boss may ask you why you gave yourself a particular score).

      So if you give yourself an above-average on something, have a few examples of why you think your work was above average. And given your circumstances, maybe you’d think that your work was above average in a calm environment, but with the turmoil of management changes maybe you could bump your score up a little because of that (not in every category, but in ones where it can be justified). Also, if you’ve gotten any feedback from the other team that knows your work better, you can use that as a reference for your own score “Dept A said my contribution was extremely helpful on project xyz.”

      As far as worrying about over inflating yourself – just make sure you don’t have top scores across the board, that looks a little out of touch.

    2. SoCalHR*

      Also I will say this, a lot of people run into over-inflation issues because they assume doing their job well means they are exceeding expectations, when in reality they are simply meeting the requirements for the job.

      We use a 5 point scale where a 3 is meeting your job expectations. People assume, hey I’m doing a good job, I must be all 5s. But that’s not the case. That person is probably mostly 3’s.
      Ex: Every month I meet my closing target of 80%, I must be a 5. That person is a 3 for meeting their target monthly, they would have to consistently exceed the target to be a 4 or a 5.

      Different companies view this differently, but I think this is how most(?) managers look at things. Although I had a boss say “I NEVER give a 5” which I think is ridiculous, if someone is a 5, give them a 5.

      1. Famous Blue Raincoat*

        Thank you! That’s helpful.

        I do have some examples of specific feedback from people I work with more directly, so thanks for the idea to reference that.

        Agreed on the idea that a lot of people seem to think if they do their job correctly they are a 5, but should be more accurately calling themselves a 3 unless they completely revolutionized something or went above and beyond in a very tangible way on a consistent basis.

        I am leaning toward going mostly 3’s with a 4 on one goal, and I can provide commentary about the specific challenges that required extra effort on my part to make it successful. That combined with feedback I can share from others should at least provide my current boss enough context to decide if I’m being accurate or modest.

        1. ..Kat..*

          I have read that women tend to underrate themselves and men tend to overrate themselves.

          Along the lines that when men succeed at something, they tend to attribute this to their hard work, skill, and competence. Women tend to attribute it to luck.

          That said, you may be seriously underrating yourself with mostly 3s. I recommend upping those to 4s – your boss will tell you if you are overrating yourself.

          1. Famous Blue Raincoat*

            Thanks, Kat–I definitely am trying to counteract gendered biases and my own tendency to view my accomplishments as “just doing my job.” As a woman, I probably do need to re-think the way I assess my own skills and accomplishments because a man in my position might evaluate himself very differently.

            Good insights! I appreciate it.

    3. EdmundBunberry*

      I am no stranger to the multiple supervisors in one year. There were a few years where I had as many as four people complete my review (of the past 8 years I have had 13 different supervisors.) Don’t assume that anyone has kept records as to what you have done/accomplished. Provide a summary of your year, so that the latest manager is up on what you’ve accomplished, what new responsibilities you’ve mastered. I usually provide my manager with six names of people he/she can contact to get feedback on my performance. In my self-review I use my year summary (because even though I was there, I usually overlook/forget things I’ve done) to note my progress, my new skills, and if I can, tie them back to the division/department goals.
      AND YES YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES are to be factored into your assessment. You are not just a great target shooter — you are being asked to hit a moving target, and you still hit bulls-eye!

      PS give your manager a copy of the year summary before they do anything on their side – it should be used to inform them prior to any comments on your review, not to be used as a “whelp you didn’t consider this now didja?”

      1. Famous Blue Raincoat*

        Great advice, thanks! It’s good to know others have encountered the multiple supervisors thing, and your approach makes a lot of sense.

      2. Scandinavian Vacationer*

        Also, I’ve made myself spend up to 8 – 10 hours thoroughly filling out the self eval form. Go through your calendar for the past year to remind yourself (and your mgr) of activities from early in the year which may recede into the background. You are the one person who knows your job the best, so document this for your manager.

  48. Virginian*

    I had an interview last week and essentially bumbled my way through it which sucks because I was really excited about the role and the organization. It seemed like a total fail to me, but I wonder if other people have any stories where they thought they failed an interview but then got the job? I’m sure I won’t get this one, but it’s nice to read something that has a positive ending.

    1. Pseudo Soriano*

      When I interviewed for my current job (which is bilingual English/French – I’m in Canada), I tried to use what little French I could remember from high school. I thought I’d done a decent enough job speaking in French until I tried to wish the interviewer a good weekend – and the whole sentence came out in Spanish (my second language). I’d been unemployed long enough that I thought I was toast – but I got offered the job five days later. Those five days in between the interview and the verbal offer were very, very, VERY long.

    2. nep*

      I’ll be keen to hear these stories too. I bombed a phone interview about a month ago; it was for a job that felt right at an organisation where I’d really like to work.
      I just keep telling myself, each ‘failure’ is a step closer to my success, whatever that might look like.
      Good luck, Virginian.

    3. foolofgrace*

      This has happened to me more than once — I figure I bombed at the phone interview, and three hours later I get a job offer. Makes me question the interviewers — did we have the same interview? :)

    4. EB*

      In my current job I interviewed with ten different people (a little excessive but whatever…) I truly BOMBED one of the interviews. I couldn’t tell if it was me or my interviewer but we did not gel at all. I ended up getting the job after all… found out a year later that my bad interviewer was upset because my role was replacing the freelancer my company had been using. Suddenly it all made sense! So you really never know.

      1. Amylou*

        Couldn’t sleep the night before (slept like 3 hours), then forgot to do my hair properly and put my make up on (I really didn’t have it together), and I just didn’t feel like it went well and felt like I struggled with some of the more important questions, as I was seriously sleep-deprived and then after the interview was in an even worse state and mood than when I woke up. Back to current work in the afternoon, I see my phone ring with that company’s number. Was too scared to pick up cause I really wasn’t up for bad news… did get a 2nd interview and the job though despite all this :)

    5. MissGirl*

      I once got a job as an assistant editor despite my resume saying in the first sentence “work as a editor.”

    6. Aphrodite*

      I work for a community college in southern central coastal California. I’ve been a permanent employee for 15 years now, but my first job here was an hourly one. I interviewed for a Housing Coordinator position; it was 19.5 hours per week. The woman who interviewed me was nice (and a good supervisor as it turned out). I walked away from the interview somehow feeling I had blown it but could not identify any single thing at all that made it less than stellar. It was very depressing.

      Two hours later–she had told me she’d make a decision within two days–I got a call from her offering me the job. I was so astounded I blurted out that I thought I had lost it but couldn’t figure out why. She laughed, said no, and told me that my habit of watching the rental ads on CL (for fun and to keep a pulse on the town) made me her immediate choice. I loved that job and was sorry when it ended but we stayed in occasional touch until she retired.

    7. theletter*

      There’s a story my friend told me, and this might reach urban legend status, but the story goes that the woman forgot to wear pants to her interview. It was winter and she was wearing a long coat, and didn’t realize she had forgotten the article of clothing until she went to unzip.

      She asked if she could keep her coat because she was so cold, and went through the interview without anyone noticing.

      Readers, she got the job.

    8. Faith*

      When I had my second and final interview for my current job, I’d just gotten back into town the day before from staying with my dad in the hospital for several days, where we learned he had terminal and aggressive cancer. So my mind was not exactly on the job, I’d barely prepared (although I’d tried), and I was extremely stressed and hadn’t really slept for a week. I thought about canceling or rescheduling my interview, but just sort of didn’t get around to it, and figured I’d go just for practice. I did not think it went well at all – I couldn’t even remember any of the agency’s publications, even though I’d looked through several of them! – but I also wasn’t nervous during the interview, because getting the job or not was hardly the most pressing thing to me at the time. I think the lack of nerves really helped me come across as more confident and not overthink everything like I usually do, and to my surprise, I did get an offer a couple weeks later.

      I don’t recommend “learn devastating news about a loved one right before the interview” as a strategy, though.

    9. Middle School Teacher*

      My current job! I also had to do it in English and French, which went fine, but the grand boss didn’t seem super impressed with me. Conversely, the day before I’d had another interview I was sure I nailed, and I had started making plans to move four hours away!

  49. zm*

    My fiance recently got a conditional job offer, pending a background check. This job would require us to move across the country, and we’re fine with that and really excited. The only thing is that we can’t really start planning the move yet, cause the background check timeline given is very generous… Like up to 6 months. (He’s submitted applications to other jobs in the mean time, but he’s a bit picky and we can afford that)

    So, I’m wondering when I should start applying to jobs in the state we’d be moving to. Finacially we’d be fine if I didn’t have a job if we move, so I can wait to start until he has the final offer in hand. But, part of me is anxious about waiting that long. Also, we’d like to end up in that area anyways, so its not like his job is the only thing drawing us to that region. But, on the other hand the longer I stay in my current job, the better. I’ve been here for 8 months and its my first job out of college, so I don’t want to leave too quickly for resume purposes. Advice?

    1. zm*

      fudge… i think the name autofilled when i entered my email, darn chrome setting… oh well my current supervisor knows this is a possibility. unless someone can tell me how to remove?

      1. Ktelzbeth*

        Try emailing Alison directly and asking her to remove your post. She can delete, but there’s no way for posters to.

    2. foolofgrace*

      A six-month background check?! That sounds crazy. Makes the “conditional” offer sound kind of bogus. Can he politely get them to hurry it up?

      1. Kate*

        I applied for a job at a certain government agency that told me the background check took 12-18 months! And that I wouldn’t be able to start until it was completely processed. FWIW, 6-months has been typical for some of my other positions, but both were able to start me before it was done by limiting the work I could do. So, it sucks, but it’s really not that unusual depending on the type of position. I wouldn’t take it as meaning the offer was bogus.

      2. Lindsay J*

        I’m guessing it’s probably for a federal law enforcement position, or something that involves a security clearance of some sort.

        When my ex was applying for those types of positions, that was the time frame given.

      3. rldk*

        I live in the DC area, and with jobs that require clearance, 6 months would be a blessing. I had a friend who interned at the DOJ and needed to get a higher clearance to be officially hired, but it was in late 2016 right before department was gutted and there was a hiring freeze. It all boiled down into not enough people to do the background check itself . She got hired for real about 14 months after.

    3. Jules the Third*

      Wait until he has the offer. Do some searching now, but unless you run across your dream job that will support both of you until he gets one he likes, don’t apply. Just bookmark those employers.

      1) Hitting that one year mark makes your job history look better (though for you, 1st job out of school, it’s less of an issue)

      2) If there’s a 6mo background check, they’re doing it for real (credit / searches are more like a week or two). That means there’s actually a chance he won’t get hired.

    4. ..Kat..*

      Start searching now, especially since you both want to live in that area anyway. If you find a good job there sooner, maybe you could move and support him while he continues to look for a job there.

  50. Sodor*

    I have a Skype interview next week. I wasn’t planning on job hunting now, because I’m spending my final year of university abroad. My plan was to come back to UniversityCity in June, job hunt over the summer and start something in September. I wasn’t too worried, because the job market in my industry and city is great and I’ve worked part-time in my industry throughout most of university. If I didn’t find anything better, I’d just go back to the company where I worked (great pay, but rather stressful).

    But a friend from university who works in government (not in the US) reached out about a position in his department that they’ve had a bit of trouble filling (they require two foreign languages and while the pay is decent, you could get more in the private sector). The job sounded great and my friend confirmed with the hiring manager that interviewing over Skype would be possible, so I had him pass on my resume. The hiring process is pretty straightforward – they’re not doing phone screens but instead rejected some candidates based on resume and are inviting the rest of the candidates for a single in-person interview. I’m the only one who will have a Skype interview instead.

    The Skype interview is scheduled for next week and I’m quite nervous, because I’m used to interviewing in person. As I said, I don’t desperately need the job, but it does sound really interesting. What are some things to watch out for in a Skype interview and especially since I’m the only candidate doing it over Skype? Also, the job ad lists the start date as 1st June, I’d need to start on the 14th instead. Does this make sense to bring up in the interview or is it better to wait until the offer stage?

    I’m feeling a bit like I’m inconveniencing them with the Skype interview and later start date, but I don’t want this feeling to prevent me from asking the right questions about the job.

    1. Fishsticks*

      For Skype, definitely test it out before hand, ex. check your mic/sound, see what’s in the background and make sure it’s plain, and then make sure your computer is eye level and you aren’t doing an awkward stare down. The biggest thing for me is making sure there’s still eye contact on the camera since it’s a bit higher up than whats on the screen. Also if you have any notes, if you glance at them frequently it may be interpreted that you aren’t paying attention. I think there’s a post somewhere about it, but I’m not sure.

      1. Combinatorialist*

        The way I recommend remembering to look at your camera is to put googly eyes on either side of the camera.

    2. Reba*

      Re: the feeling of inconveniencing, maybe it will help to remember they’re having a hard time getting candidates — they will be excited to talk to you in whatever form! I think testing the equipment/connection and giving plenty of time to deal with last-minute snafus can help relieve those jitters at least. Good luck!

    3. Aphrodite*

      Stand up if possible for the whole interview. If you cannot, at the very least sit in a straight-back chair. Your voice will be so much stronger and you’ll feel more present. Set your computer up so you are eye level with the top of the monitor. Hard as it might be, try to look at the “eye” so you appear to the interviewers to looking right at them rather than down.

      As someone else said, be sure the background is plain (you don’t want a plant or doorway “growing” out of your head). Make sure all sounds are off: pets, kids, dishwasher, etc. Close windows if that helps. Go to the bathroom. Have tissues or paper towels nearby; you never know if you might need something. I would suggest not having water or any beverage or food anywhere near you.

      Hope this helps. Good luck!

  51. Candygrammar*

    Hi everyone! I need a little cover letter help.

    For the past year I’ve been staying home with my baby and toddler but I’m ready to get back to work. However, my husband’s schedule, the high cost of daycare in our area, and most importantly my personal preference means that I am looking for part-time work.

    Fortunately, my field is one where professional part-time jobs are frequently available and just starting to look at postings I’ve seen a few promising position for 20 hours per week or less, which would be ideal.

    However, I’m struggling with how to convey my enthusiasm for working 10-15 hours per week in my cover letter. If this was for a full-time job i wouldn’t mention anything about my personal life in a cover letter, but I feel like a post for a higher level position with extremely limited hours would want some information about why this is ideal for the candidate.

    Am I overthinking this? Should I mention balancing family and my volunteer gigs and community involvement when describing why I’m excited about the job? Or should I stick to normal cover letter stuff and not bring up the hours? It seems like the elephant in the room.

    1. nep*

      I wouldn’t bring up the hours in the cover letter. The fact that you’re applying for the part-time job clearly indicates this is a schedule that you’re seeking.
      I once applied for a job for which the ad said: ‘Explain in your cover letter why you’re seeking part-time work.’ But unless they ask for that up front, I wouldn’t address it. Wait till it comes up in phone screen or interview. My take.

      1. nep*

        (Just to add — you don’t want to project here. You don’t know how they view this and you don’t want to convey your concerns about it. There are plenty of employers seeking part-time workers; for all they know people are seeking a second job, a job for while they’re in school…There are countless reasons. Let them bring it up then respond accordingly. And always very positively.)

    2. HMM*

      I actually would mention that you’re excited about the part time aspect of the position! We just hired for a 20 hour/week gig at my org and the number of times we’ve had phone screens with people only for them to ask “is there a possibility this could become full time?” was hugely frustrating. No need to elaborate on why on the details.
      I think something simple like “I was thrilled to find this part time role, as it allows me to balance working for a great organization with my other commitments. I’d bring to the table X, Y, Z…” would suffice.

      2. SpaceNovice*

        +1 to this. You’re looking for a mutually beneficial arrangement rather than an upgrade.

      5. Jemima Bond*

        Yes – they are advertising a part time role so there’s no need to be embarrassed that you are looking for those sort of hours – you are the sort of person they want! Better you than someone who leaves within a short time because they want more hours.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      People have a lot of reasons for wanting part time work so I don’t think you need to get into specifics about why you are interested in part time, just focus on what you’re interested in about the job itself.

    4. CasperHauser*

      Explaining why this is ideal for you – is that because you are asking them to give you preferential consideration due to your circumstances? Or is it because you want to signal that you are willing to make concessions to get the job? Ideally, they will be selecting the best candidate based on skill set, not on who will take the lowest salary.

  52. Fabulous*

    How do you retain focus and motivation during the day when you have your next 3 workdays planned down to a T and your manager comes in an upends everything with new priorities?

    My last 2-3 hours yesterday were basically worthless because my work plan for Thurs/Fri/Monday were torn to shreds. I was all set to focus on a project I have to give a presentation on next week that I’ve barely started, as well as finishing up monitoring calls for XYZ employees since I hit my goal on ABC earlier that day. She comes in and tells me to instead go back and focus more on ABC employees – forget everything else. Now I’m overwhelmed because I haven’t been able to get my ideas out for the presentation and I can’t mentally make the switch to the other (unrelated) task.

    My motivation is shot today and I want to go home already.

    1. Jemima Bond*

      Deep breaths. And a mental note of how you will show off about your adaptability and flexible attitude at your next performance appraisal.

  53. amanda_cake*

    You might remember me posting about interviewing for a school librarian position a couple of weeks ago. I interviewed for two jobs and was offered a position at both schools, so I had a tough decision. I will go down there next week to sign some paperwork (it’s about 2.5 hours from where I live now) and get some things squared away. In my state, you have to have a school media specialist license… I taught a year of high school English on a provisional license, so the Department of Ed told me I have to complete the terms of that provisional license before I can get the school media specialist provisional. I basically need to take two tests in order to complete the terms of the English license. I hate I have to do that, since I will never use it. I have taken one test (awaiting the score) and have the other scheduled. I know it’s going to be a bear.

    Now begins the chaos of figuring out where to live, budgeting since my lease in my current place isn’t up until the end of August so I will have to pay rent in two places for a while, and just getting everything in order.

    1. fposte*

      Congratulations on the offers! Testing might be a pain, but in some states you’d have to get a whole degree, so at least you don’t have to do that.

      1. amanda_cake*

        I will have my MLIS in May. I think the ad they posted said they wanted someone with an MLIS. I’m more whining about the testing since it’s in a subject field I’m not interested in teaching. I don’t understand why they won’t grant me a provisional license for the school media specialist instead of making me get a full secondary English license that I won’t use. Sighs.

        1. fposte*

          What I mean is that in some states you’d have to get a full Ed degree, not just MLIS, from that state for K-12 licensure, no matter what you have in another state.

          1. amanda_cake*

            Gotcha. My state only requires teachers to have bachelor’s degrees and has options for career switchers, etc. My undergrad is in English and one of my minors is in education, however I didn’t complete the requirements for licensure during my undergraduate work. I would have actually had to jump through more hoops to get licensed during undergrad than I’m having to jump through now, which is interesting enough. It never ceased to surprise me how many people I worked with that were first year teachers with no background in education and/or a degree that wasn’t necessarily in the field they were teaching (like a teacher with a communications degree teaching English or an engineer teaching math).

            I’m glad I don’t have to have a MAT or Masters of Ed because I really don’t want to spend the $$$$ on another degree. Whew.

    2. Q*

      Congrats! Check with your current landlord. Sometimes if they can find someone to rent it before your lease would be up, they won’t charge you those months. They just want someone paying, they don’t care who!

      1. amanda_cake*

        I have a roommate. She’s on the lease and I’m listed as an occupant. She is moving when the lease is up, but not as soon as I’ll be moving. It’s a house split into two apartments (upstairs and downstairs). The guys who live downstairs will be highly motivated to find someone. They can be… loud… and like to party a little too much so I know they’ll be looking for someone that is friends with them to move in upstairs. Or at least someone who can tolerate them. Anyway, long story short–I doubt I could find someone to cover my share.

    3. Double A*

      Teacher licensing requirements are a PITA! My state’s are so confusing. Our state board of Ed website has nearly reduced me to tears many a time. I don’t mind bureaucratic requirements that make sense (background check, confirmation of degree), but I hate how many hoops you have to jump through that have no bearing on the ability to do the job.

      1. amanda_cake*

        Yes! Some instructions certainly aren’t clearcut. The licensure specialist at the school board office is going to have to make some calls because they haven’t sponsored a teacher for the school media specialist position so they don’t know all the requirements/hoops I have to jump through.

    4. Loves Libraries*

      Congrats. My school is eliminating degreed and certified media specialist positions. Glad you have had offers at two progressive schools. Best of luck!

      1. amanda_cake*

        I think my state requires school media specialists. The job that I accepted is an awesome opportunity. They have like 6 3D printers, every kid has an iPad… all the technology. Brand new school. Good perks too—they pay 100% of health insurance.

  54. Bigglesworth*

    Potentially exciting news! I am wrapping up my first year of law school and have been thinking about switching to the part-time/evening program and finding a full-time job. We still haven’t figured out my husband’s anxiety/depression med combo and being the sole bread winner causes him to have panic attacks and such. Well, a current evening student told me her current gov. department will be hiring policy analysts soon and told me to send her my resume. Apparently, her supervisors were really impressed! I know nothing is guaranteed, but it’s exciting to think that I may actually have a job soon and help relieve my husband’s anxiety.

  55. August*

    So this isn’t an issue that I’m actually intending to address (because it’s absolutely none of my business), but I thought it might be fun to post here. In the past two years, my family doctor has slowly become absolutely obsessed with ghost hunting. It was funny at first, since he mostly just talked about publishing a book on the subject, but recently, it’s become a bit disturbing. During our last appointment, he turned off all the lights, scooted a couple inches away from me, and then spent 40 minutes showing me pictures of blobs of light on his phone. He believes that ghosts from a nearby civil war site have “chosen [him]” and his 13-yo son, who also sees ghosts. For some reason, it’s mainly the Confederate soldiers (he made a comment about the practice being concerned about “all of the Confederate flags in [his] yard”), which worries me. Even more worrying are his more recent comments about how his son says a ghost warned him about an intruder in the yard, who he joked about shooting.

    He’s been my general doctor for years, which is probably why he felt comfortable doing all of this, but I’ve found his behavior (especially his comments about shooting an intruder and Confederate flags) really off-putting. I don’t plan on doing anything besides switching to a different doctor, but, help me out, AAM community– if you worked with him, what would you do?

    1. DataQueen*

      I would just completely indulge his ghost hunting if i had time – ask questions, listen to all the stories, ask him to send me articles – and just enjoy the insanity of it. Use it as a good dinner party anecdote. I love stuff like this! I have a coworker with 31 cats, and I completely indulge him – i listen to stories, i even bought a calendar of his cats. It was not a Welcome Addition to our home, but I insisted on using it because again, I love weird people. (not that having multiple cats is weird, but he is tens of thousands of dollars in debt because of the cats medical expenses, and sells calendars of the cats, and has a shrine to one of the deceased ones in his office. It’s great.)

      1. August*

        I would buy a calendar of your coworker’s 31 cats in a hot second. Like I said, I thought my doctor’s ghost hunting was a really quirky, fun thing about him at first! It was more the way that he sat very close to me, stared intensely into my eyes, and gave a very sincere speech about how that Confederate ghost warned his son about the intruder for a reason, and how he’ll do anything (“anything, August!”) to protect his home, including using his god-given right to lethal force. After that, I just nodded very enthusiastically and left very quickly.

      2. Jules the Third*

        Yeah, it’s the Confederate part that’s weirding me out. So, no Union soldiers died, wherever it is he’s seeing all these Confederate ghosts? Kinda a clue, that.

        If I worked with him, I would be job hunting. Because you can’t logic obsessions.

        His poor kid.

    2. rocklobstah*

      Unless you’re enjoying this, find a new doctor and leave. That’s a serious imposition on your time and good graces.

      1. Beth Jacobs*

        Yeah, the OP mentioned switching to a different doctor and I think that’s the right move. And I know this might make me sound harsh, but I just don’t trust someone with a non-scientific approach towards ghosts to have a scientific approach to medicine.

        I think if I had to work with him, I’d treat it as any other non-work chatter. Smile and indulge him for a few sentences, but then be very firm with “Right, I need to get back to work now” or “So, what about [work related topic]?

    3. Thursday Next*

      40 minutes is a long time—if I were a colleague, I’d be concerned about a patient backlog from his indulgence of his ghost hunting *during an appointment.* And doesn’t the AMA have a position on gun violence? I wonder if coworkers could use that as a way to advise against talking about shooting people with patients.

      This is a doctor I’d stay far away from as a patient—Confederate apologist and joker about shooting people? Nope. Nopity nope nope nope.

    4. Anonymous Ampersand*

      If this was in the UK I’d suggest reporting him post haste. I certainly wouldn’t ever go back.

    5. Cheerchairperson*

      I think it would be a good idea to let the practice know why you’re switching doctors – often stuff like this will go under the radar until it gets really bad and something goes wrong and there were warning signs but they weren’t followed up on because ppl felt uncomfortable speaking up or in this case ppl didn’t put two and two together (losing patients to different doctor – weird ghosts/confederate/intruder gun talk.) I think if I was an employee I’d appreciate you speaking up (especially when he mentions they already have concerns) because losing a patient will show this has consequences and needs to be dealt with.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I definitely would too. There’s nothing wrong with ghost hunting and I’d be interested if my doctor did that as a hobby, but they need to know he’s using appointment time to talk about it and the other stuff, which is a huge no.

    6. E*

      Was he billing insurance for the time he spent in non-medical discussion? For a few minutes that’d be ok, but 40 minutes is way too much. Whether intentional or not, he shouldn’t be having insurance pay for him to chat with patients about his personal hobbies.

    7. ..Kat..*

      I am a nurse. FWIW, I am not a doctor’s office nurse, I am a pediatric ICU nurse. This doctor is wasting your time and money. An office visit is to discuss your health. NOT his obsessions. If you are in the USA, he also is wasting your money, your insurance provider’s money, and/or the taxpayers’ money. This is completely inappropriate. Besides switching to another doctor, please report him to your state’s medical board. If this is new behavior for him, this may also prompt him to seek treatment for whatever is now ailing him. But, consider how his behavior might affect the life of someone with a time sensitive medical illness. Instead of diagnosing and treating this illness, he is wasting time with his obsessions. Patients can die from this lack of proper diagnosis and treatment. They can live, but suffer harm. Please, please, please report him.

  56. This girl is on fire*

    Yesterday, after about a month at my new job, I was fired. I feel blindsided because I was still learning about the job and a little hurt that I didn’t get enough time to really prove that I could have been a great employee. I don’t want to continue to analyze what happened. I want to move forward and be better than ever. I’m already looking at my strengths and weakness’s at this last job and looking at jobs that would better fit my strengths. Of course, I am sad and upset that this happened, but I’m trying hard to see this as a chance for new opportunities. What I’m looking for today are success stories. I need a little inspiration and hope that things are going to work out fine in the end. Do you have an experiences or story where you were fired and things worked out for you? Also, if anyone has good tips on how to move forward with applying to jobs and handling being fired I would appreciate the advice!

    2. nep*

      I don’t know whether you listen to the radio show 1A — Yesterday they talked about how people’s “failures” at work fostered growth and learning, and led them to bigger and better things. One guy they mentioned said he was fired 10 times…later started his own company and he’s doing quite well for himself.
      I love your attitude about this. Good on ya for taking it like that and turning it into a way you can learn and improve. All the best. Please keep us posted.

    3. Espeon*

      All the best people get fired at least once! It’s an experience, don’t worry about it :)

      As you were only there a month you don’t have to mention it at all I’d say, but my firing was after a year and I’m on my third job since and have got away without actually saying “I was fired” so far (never said I *wasn’t* either though – gotta be careful with that one!). It’s not the Employment Death Sentence that some people would like workers to believe :)

    4. Crylo Ren*

      I’m sorry that I don’t have a story to share, but I did want to say that your grace and attitude about it is really remarkable. If the opinion of a random internet stranger counts for anything, there’s no doubt in my mind that you’ll overcome this temporary setback and do very well in your next endeavors. Best wishes!

    5. SoCalHR*

      I agree that most people end up being fired at some point in their life. I actually think you’re better off that they fired you in a month rather than waiting 3 or 6. What it says to me is 1) you either were REALLY not a fit for the role and they saved everyone stress or 2) they had unrealistic expectations of how quickly someone can pick up and find their groove in a job. (sounds like you may have already tired to sort through what brought it to that point, which is good)

      The hardest part will be finding that *next* job, once you’re in it and if you stay in it a while, this firing will be a tiny blip on your radar. best of luck!

    6. AnitaJ*

      I am so sorry you got fired–I totally understand how much it can hurt. BUT. Things really do work out sometimes! I was fired from a job and ended up at another company. I met a coworker who had also been fired from his last job. Well…we ended up getting married. So, getting fired was the best thing to happen to us.

      This is a pretty specific outcome, but I guess what I’m trying to say is, things work out. As someone who faces rejection daily (I’m an actress), I really adhere to this motto: Be thankful for closed doors, detours, & roadblocks. They protect you from paths & places not meant for you.

      Good luck!

    7. Fabulous*

      So, I wasn’t really fired, but I was passed over becoming a permanent employee after a 1.5 year temp assignment. On 3 separate occasions.

      tl;dr I’m now in a slightly better paying job now doing things I actually like doing, with an upcoming promotion and 25% (minimum) raise at the end of the fiscal year this summer!

      Here’s the story: The first time I was passed over was when my manager thought I’d be a good addition to their accounting department, talked about it for months but then the job was posted and hired for without notifying me. Second time was when I interviewed for another internal position with the legal department; would have been a boring job but I needed something full-time. The hiring manager insulted me during the interview and then officially turned me down a week after my contract ended. Regarding the third time… I was originally there to run the Travel & Expense department, but was put up in reception after they had a RIF. Reception’s not my gig, but I wanted to apply for the full-time job anyway if it was posted. Except I didn’t find out they were hiring for it until a candidate was already chosen, again without notifying me – the person already in the position for the past 18 months. I was at least able to talk to the recruiter and find out more information, etc. They were offering (at least to me) $13/hour, which was a full $3 less than I was making at the time. Heck no. Glad I got out of there! I was unemployed for 1 week before being called on another temp assignment which turned into a full-time job, which I have more than proven myself on. We’re implementing a new program in the next couple months and my boss has apparently been eyeing me to run it, so come this summer after it’s fully implemented I get an official title change and pay change to where I finally should be at 10+ years into my career with a Master’s Degree. Very excited for these changes; they’ve only been 3-4 years in the making!

      Good luck with your changes and hopefully they don’t take nearly as long!

    8. Cheerchairperson*

      Was let go from one job, when I finally got my act together and went back to temping that turned into a permanent better paid and more impressive role that opened doors further down the line. Later at another’s job I forced out and it pushed me to much better more interesting jobs that appreciated my ideas and my experience.
      Addendum although this no doubt hurts getting fired after a month I think is better than any longer period than that, you can take this job off your resume and look for other roles, whereas a longer time at job leaves you in the uncomfortable position of keeping it on and explaining why it didn’t work out or having a big gaps.

    9. Kathleen_A*

      The good news is that since it’s only a month, you should probably just leave it off your resume. I can’t see any value in putting it on there – for you or for future employers.

      I’ve never been fired, per se, but I was laid off from two – two! – jobs in a row, one after only three months and one after ~8 months. It really didn’t seem to matter at all, to be honest, which sort of surprised me because I wouldn’t have blamed potential employers from thinking that anybody laid off twice in less than 12 months had to be at fault somehow.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      When one door slams shut another door, which was previously locked, flies open. Expect to find that next open door. If for no other reason than it hurts too much to believe there is no open door. Reality is, of course, that while X did not work for you, Y will work for you and some one will think you are the best ever. This is how it goes. I have been fired once. I have been edged out of jobs, where things were so undesirable that no sane person would stay. Some how the latter can get to ya just as much as being fired. Then there have been jobs where things were great. The common thread through it all, is that I have learned so much and experienced so many things that I never would have learned or experienced any other way. It’s not all bad. Some of those things are an absolute privilege for me. I can’t fully describe here but I have had some rather unusual experiences.

      Tell yourself that you are a collector. You collect experiences to learn from, to share, or maybe to never repeat again! ;) No one experience defines you NOR does it define the course of your life.
      Take pride in having a proactive response to stress/difficulties/crisis. It’s our response when the chips are down that dictates our quality of life for years to come. Make it a habit to pat yourself on the back every so often.
      Last. Listen to your friends when they try to point out jobs for you. Perhaps they aim too low, ignore that part and look at the type of work or the field of work and see if their overall point is valid. If they pick a job where they are aiming too high for your setting, ask them why they think that you could do that work. (I had a friend who hit a brick wall one time, he had a huge problem at work. He ended up demoted. I told him that the real problem was that he, himself, did not aim high enough. He could be doing more than what he was doing. This blew his mind as he was pretty down in the dumps. Now my friend is working several levels above where he was before. You could be like my friend, you aimed too low and it bit ya. This happens. The point is listen to your friends, shift through their advice/thoughts and see what new things you find.)

    11. Jules the Third*

      Not fired, but quit:
      Small non-profit, I did the light tech and admin stuff – taught one person to do desktop reporting, kept all the accounting and other audit records, wrote web pages back when HTML was all we had. They hired an accountant / office manager (Cersei) full time, I moved more tech-ish but I knew the requirements for auditing, and I was really the only person besides Cersei who did.

      I started noticing things that seemed ‘off’ about Cersei – statements like our CEO was ‘one of the old school’ in a context that implied he was sexist (he wasn’t), and reports that weren’t right. I reported this to her boss. Nothing. New stuff happened. I reported the new stuff to her boss, and his boss (VP). Nothing. I decided that this looked like a good time to go back to grad school. I wrote everything out (again) for CEO, resigned on a Friday, got escorted out, headed to a short-term position the next Monday and grad school in 4 months after that.

      Much better employment path now. Cersei? Got fired the next year for embezzlement. So, maybe I at least got them watching her…

    12. theletter*

      My dad was fired several times in his career, and he said that each one was a blessing in disguise. He retired comfortably a few years ago.

      At about month, you may be able to conveniently leave this position off your resume.

      A few years back, after about a year at what was supposed to be my dream job, I was told that the company was cutting back my hours (read: slow firing) I reached out to all my friends and family, letting them know I was open to new opportunities and I wanted to move fast. I got a hot job lead from one of my choir mates and had a job offer in about a week.

      There was a day of sitting on the couch and crying about it, I’ll admit – the slow firing, I mean, not the job offer.

    13. Fact & Fiction*

      I know this is late but I just want to change me in with a success story. A few years after my first book was published, after getting some family & medical issues sorted out, I decided to go back to work full-time to supplement book money (which for most authors is not amazing – I was fortunate in that I had a fairly significant first deal that gave me the time off I needed but things got financially dire when the first few books came out with no sign of further book sales).

      That full-time job that I tried was a nightmare for my self-confidence because after telling me I was doing great for 6 weeks, they out of the blue gave me a list of issues that were apparently problems that were never mentioned to me and gave me two weeks to address them. Which I did. Boss pulled me back on to say I did a great job addressing those items but it would still be my last day. I got the walk of shame with security guard out of the office and my confidence was SHATTERED.

      It especially sucked that my publishing career continued to stall (and unfortunately still is stalled today – 3 books by a major publisher but several years since last came out and no more sales to pubs – although my lovely agent and I keep trying!) so I was feeling like double a failure.

      I let myself heal and rebuilt my self-esteem and decided maybe I’m not built for that type of role anymore. Maybe it’s time to focus on my love of writing and editing and turn that into my day job by finding some role using those skills. It took some work but I went from freelance and then part-time work writing web copy and editing to a full-time job in academic publishing services as a proofreader/copyeditor to my current, even more amazing job as a content marketing writer and strategist. Boss at last job when I confided my firing story to her after proving myself great at my job said, “Their loss is definitely our gain” and current boss constantly praises my work.

      All that to say that yes, you absolutely can go on to success after a firing. One job not working out doesn’t reflect on you as a worker or person and you will get through this! I promise.

  57. Landshark*

    After a long and agonizing marathon writing session, I finally finished the draft of my Master’s thesis. I just felt like I had to brag about that somewhere while the coffee buzz is still keeping me feeling somewhat human.

    A week and a half til I have my degree though, and that’ll open a bunch of doors at my job.

    1. periwinkle*

      Congratulations!

      Getting to the end of a thesis was both exhilarating and exhausting. Towards the end I was writing on autopilot; when I went back to re-read the whole thing a few months later, I couldn’t even remember writing a lot of it (and still have no idea where a lot of those sentences came from, except that it was somewhere in the depths of my caffeine-soaking brain).

      Take a deep breath, go polish up the draft for submittal, and celebrate! Or just sleep. Sleep is good. You’ve earned it.

      1. Landshark*

        The prof I’m working with wanted to take a look at the draft and give some feedback, so this feedback wait time is nice to go catch up on that sleep… (as soon as this super strong coffee finally wears off)

    2. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

      Congratulations! Take a restful nap after the caffeine crash and wake up to your bright future. :)

    3. Emily S.*

      Congratulations, Landshark!
      That’s a massive accomplishment, and you should be very proud.

      Good luck with the big life change you’re about to go through, finishing grad school, by the way! I hope things work out well.

  58. Decima Dewey*

    I had an interesting couple of days this week. One day our regular guard was out, so we had a visiting guard, Amos. Our afterschool leader, Lucinda, did an activity with the children that involved making “slim” with laundry detergent. She got the instructions from the appropriate people downtown, so it was an approved activity. Amos complained about the smell of detergent. Then he asked Lucinda to go outside. Once outside the branch, Amos swore a blue streak at Lucinda, who kept her cool. Another staff member closed the doors so that children wouldn’t heard the language used. That was Incident Report #1

    Incident Report #2 was the next day. Our regular guard, Fergus, asked a patron to leave the public bathroom since she’d been in there a long time. Patron went off, said she wanted to get Fergus fired, called the police. While I was preparing the incident report, patron continued to rant about Fergus, claimed that another staffer had told her not to go to me to report the incident before the staffer said I had mental problems. (I do not believe the staffer said that). She called the police two more times, continued to rant about Fergus and “people who make things up.” Patron asked me for a copy of the incident report. I told I could not give her one (it’s meant to be an internal document only). Eventually she left. I later found out that she asked yet another staffer when we closed and threatened to come back with her brothers. Police never showed.

    After those two days, it was a relief to go back to normal attendance and lateness issues!

    1. BadWolf*

      Wait, a guard asked a woman to go outside so he could start yelling at her? Not that he should ask anyone male or female to go outside so he can yell at them, but it seems particularly not self-aware for a security guard. I hope he doesn’t come back as a temp guard.

      1. Decima Dewey*

        There have been issues with Amos before. Out of the 11 branches in our area, 5 or 6 have said they don’t want Amos back again. I want Lucinda to feel safe, so it’s now 6 or 7 branches.

        1. strawberries and raspberries*

          And maybe also talk to the other staff member who saw a temp security guard swearing at a full-time female employee and thought, “Oh, let me shut the door, the children’s precious ears.” If I were her manager I would have swung her back inside and taken on this doofus myself.

          1. SnarkyLibrarian*

            Why is Amos welcome at ANY of your branches? Can you or someone else tell the temp or security agency how unprofessional he is and that you never want him back?

          2. Jules the Third*

            There’s no mention that the other employee was a manager. If they’re not, the other employee’s first responsibility is the safety of their patrons, not mediating between the two adult employees outside. After the door is closed, it would have been good to flag the manager if possible (cell phone / text, you can’t leave the kids alone in that situation), of course.

            I’m kinda surprised that ‘multiple branches won’t work with him’ isn’t enough to get Amos fired…

    2. A Nickname for AAM*

      I have a hunch we work for the same national umbrella agency, because this sounds like my life.

  59. Waterlilies*

    Today my boss made a comment about my theoretical future pregnancy…and it was awkward, and I want to know how to bring it up/what to say.

    Context: I was sharing a baby blanket pattern with a coworker. My one coworker asked if it was for me, and I said it was not; my boyfriend’s friend is expecting. My boss then chimed in saying that I am not allowed to go on maternity leave, and that I’ll need to run my future pregnancy request by her, so she can approve it.

    Now, don’t get me wrong, I do know she’s kidding. However, I think it’s incredibly insensitive and inappropriate for her to insinuate she has any authority over my body and when I decide to get pregnant. This isn’t the first tone deaf joke that she has made…last week she was complaining about having to organize the men in our department, and how they’re all her second and third husbands, and need to be told what to do.

    Any thoughts on how to proceed?

    1. BadWolf*

      Yeah, that’s one of those things that manager’s shouldn’t joke about. For example, I had jury duty coming up and my manager “joked” about making sure I didn’t get on the jury (if I got that far). He was joking and we were busy and I’m pretty sure he meant in that I’m an important person sort of way. But since he’s a manager, it feels like pressure and a lack of support if I did get on jury duty.

      If you feel comfortable, I would bring up the pregnancy joke from the angle that even though it was joke, it does imply a non-parent friendly/parental leave atmosphere. Especially if she keeps making jokes in that area — that doubt kind of builds up.

    2. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

      Since you’re sure she was kidding and she’s your boss, I personally wouldn’t take any action. Her comment was insensitive and impolite, but probably not HR-reportable bullying. The “Jane, you’re making too many comments about sensitive topics, even if the comments are meant as jokes” talk should come from her boss or her peers.

    3. Susan K*

      I think in the moment, I would have said something like, “Wow, you don’t really expect me to consult with you about my reproductive plans, right?” just to point out what a ridiculous thing that was to say. She probably would have replied, “Haha, of course not, I was obviously just joking!” and then I would have said, “That’s a weird thing to joke about. It’s a serious issue for women in the workforce.”

      Assuming you didn’t say anything at the time, if you still want to address it, you’ll probably have to be the one to bring it up (unless she makes another comment like that). Maybe you could say something like, “Hey, I’ve been thinking about what you said the other day about running a pregnancy request by you, and I just wanted to make sure you realize that my reproductive plans are a really personal decision and I’m not going to consult with you about them. I know you were probably joking, but since this is such a serious issue for a lot of women int he workforce, I found it really disconcerting that you would say that.

    4. agmat*

      It is inappropriate, but I wouldn’t say anything unless she “jokes” about it again. Personally, my response would be along the lines of “um, you know I wouldn’t do that, right?” with no laughter in my voice.

    5. Totally Minnie*

      Since you say she has made several of these kinds of jokes, it seems likely that she’s going to do it again at some point in the future. At that point, I recommend “returning the awkward to sender.” When she makes an insensitive joke, feel free to say something like “wow, that’s a weird thing to joke about.” She’ll probably flounder and sputter and try to explain why her joke is hilarious and not insensitive at all, and you don’t have to respond with anything more than “I just don’t think that’s a particularly funny topic to joke about.”

    6. Denise*

      I can’t say how you should have felt, and I can’t hear your boss’ exact tone, but I read it purely as a joke, and one that I would probably more interpret as her seeing you as too valuable an employee to lose for an extended period of time. It may have been in somewhat poor taste, but it sounds more awkward than offensive. So I don’t know that there’s anything more to do, other than you all coming up with your own witty retorts the next time it happens.

      (Though, imagining myself in a similar scenario, I really can’t see not feeling some sort of way about that kind of exchange. It’s just too personal. )

    7. Anonymous Ampersand*

      See, you can say it was “obviously” a joke, but apparently it’s a thing in Japan. Link in reply.

    8. Jemima Bond*

      Now, just mentally eye-roll. In the moment if she says something like that again, look her in the eye and say, “I beg your pardon?”
      Effectively requiring someone to repeat their douchebaggery (whilst others are now paying attention) can often put paid to it and make them realise they’re being inappropriate.
      If it happens a lot you could talk to her and say something along the lines of, “I know you are joking but junior/new/gullible colleague might thing you are serious and it might make you look bad” The subtext being, “I’m saying this because I don’t want you to get in trouble”.

    9. Cheerchairperson*

      Tbh if she does it again I think you could shut it down with a disgusted face or even an ‘oof’ – to indicate that’s kind of a clanger of a ‘joke’. I think unfortunately there’s little you can do she just makes poor taste jokes and probably thinks she’s very funny. Reminds me of The Office. .. or in future you could consider it as a ‘compliment’ and be like ‘oh that sweet that you rely on me that much, but I’m sure you guys would do just fine if I was on maternity leave’ and preferably walk off. No idea about the second husband thing – I think looking askance might work and clearly not laughing…

    10. Jules the Third*

      She’s your boss and the power differential makes this not as easy as most of these comments are implying. Sure, you can return awkward to sender, but reality is, that could have an impact on your career, and you should factor your willingness to deal with that into your response. And you don’t owe *anyone* but yourself an explanation for what choice you make.

      Lowest level response is dead pan face, and silence. Shrug inside but don’t give her cover.
      Next level is a bad joke to answer a joke: “Yeah, sure, I’ll do that when I check in on my death plan too”
      – probably not much impact either way with these
      Next level is a short serious response: Dead pan face and ‘wow. Really? yuck. Now, about [Work Topic X]’
      – good chance of being labeled a killjoy, but immediately redirecting mitigates that
      After that, a longer serious response, as many here are advocating.
      – Might get through to her. Might also cause her to downplay your next review, as ‘not a team player’. Unless she’s truly dumb, there’s probably not enough documentation to support a discrimination or sexism appeal. If you think you’ll want to go this route eventually, start documenting now, all her comments. Build up to this – you should do a couple of the lower level responses first.

    11. ..Kat..*

      Please report this.
      – It is a completely inappropriate thing to say. She is not just a coworker, she is a MANAGER. Extreme imbalance of power.
      – Even if she claims it was a joke, jokes are funny. This is not funny.
      – Even if she claims she is joking, on some level she means this.
      – Even if this is a joke, the verbalization of this dimishes women in the workplace.

      There is no place in the workplace for comments such as this.

  60. Frustrated by the network*

    I’m at a conference for work and can’t get on the conference internet. No one here is helpful, which is too bad since the first thing all the google hits suggest is to ask the network admin wherever you are. Wifi on my computer worked fine at home (same security as at the conference, but it learned it a while ago) and will connect to the open network in the lobby. Once back in the conference room, it seems unable to properly negotiate the security to log on to the conference network (WPA2-personal). I have the password right. It connects briefly, then drops. To try again, I have to delete the profile, disable the wifi adapter, enable the wifi adapter, and attempt to reconnect. I’ve restarted the computer. Windows 7, up to date on updates, Qualcom atheros network adapter with drivers up to date, firefox and IE. Windows native antivirus and firewall on default settings. Thoughts? (If before 4:30 Central US time 4/27 when the conference ends.) Thank you!

    1. Frustrated by the network*

      A few more pieces of data
      -The other night, it connected fine to my friends’ network, which it also previously knew.
      -I cannot teach it my phone’s hotspot network. Similar problems ensue.
      -It may or may not be good that I’m still on Win7, but I can’t change it right now.
      Thank you again!

      2. Nashira*

        What kind if phone do you have? Is it an iPhone? Does it have an apostrophe or other punctuation in the name? If so, remove the punctuation under Settings->General->About and then try again. Apple’s encoding for some punctuation does not match Window’s encoding, and it can prevent some Windows devices from using iPhone hotspots.

        1. Frustrated by the network*

          Interesting. I don’t know about that and tried even though it’s an Android phone, so now the phone hot spot is at least working.

          1. Nashira*

            I spent two hours trouble shooting a client’s hotspot before I discovered that. It’s my favorite lesson from the help desk.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      It’s possible that the conference’s network is overloaded or just crap. Ask if anyone else is having issues?

        1. SpaceNovice*

          :( Aw man, bummer.

          I know that Windows 7 have some weirdness with Wireless cards sometimes. I just don’t know any of the solutions. And you’ve done most of what I would suggest for troubleshooting. Maybe look up windows 7 and your network card regarding wireless problems if you haven’t already?

  61. mini cas*

    I have great managers and coworkers, however, I’m bored out of my mind. I’m not learning anything new and I do not want a promotion because I don’t want the responsibilities of the title above mine, I feel stuck.

    I’ve been looking for other jobs but why is everything a contract position? I refuse to leave a stable job for a contract role. I’m also scared to leave because I have no complaints about the company I work for. I’m afraid I won’t be as lucky if I find a new job.

    This isn’t much of a question, just needed to vent.

    1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Total solidarity as I am in the same boat. They also pay me really well on a relative basis for what is essentially a 3-4 day week. Anyone would consider it a Good Gig, but damn if I can’t handle the lack of drive. I threw myself into an unloved project in another department just to have something to do and ran up against one of the worst managers I have ever had (seagull + hands off + does not take responsibility + disappearing act) but whatever, I go back to my original role shortly.

      I am also in a role that is a typical cost center and honestly I just want to retrain for something new now. My strategy will be to start moving in that new direction over the summer with all the ‘free’ time I have because this is an untenable position for the long term. Some people may think its great, but ultimately it will come back to bite you in the behind.

      Think of it this way – this place is failing you because you aren’t being challenged and have no desire to move up If the next place had those opportunities but maybe you had to deal with a few jerks, is it that much worse? You may as well shop around and see what else is out there, but to be able to do that when you don’t necessarily have major toxic issues to escape (although I know how rough some days can be dealing with boring work) is a plus too.

      Good luck!

    2. Oh-So-Meh*

      YES I FEEL THIS.

      I’m using the comfy environment and lack of new things as a cushion while I take my sweet time searching. Yes, my motivation is sapped more and more, but I want to thoroughly vet any next step and any new team before I commit.

    3. Jules the Third*

      What education opportunities does your job have? Any chance you could shadow someone in a different function, or someone you support? Knowing more about other functions may help you do your part better or open up new career directions, if you run across something you think is neat. Spin it as ‘looking to do my job better.’

  62. Waiting*

    About 3 weeks ago, I had what is normally the final interview (and if offered the position,traditionally the candidate will accept immediately). However, due to unusual circumstances, the interviewer did not offer me the position. The interviewer said the agency would contact me within the week, It’s been a long, multi-round interview process for a career position with a government agency.

    The agency had to carry out major, critically-important events for the last three weeks. It would not have been appropriate for me to follow up (after the thank-you note). I keep telling myself it’s not unreasonable that the agency hasn’t contacted me yet. And I shouldn’t follow up until at least next week. But I’m nervous and sad- my life is ‘on hold’ until there is a formal offer (… or rejection). I guess I am asking for support. The AAM crowd seems to understand how difficult it is to wait for a formal offer.

    1. The New Wanderer*

      It’s so hard to wait! I had the same situation after college, where getting the official offer in hand meant finding a place to live in one state and not getting it meant packing up quick to move to another state. It took over a month from “You’ll be receiving an offer!” verbally to having the paper in hand. I think I followed up once 2-3 weeks after the verbal offer just to see if it was really going to happen. And yes, it was with a contractor to a government agency.

      I hope you hear something soon!

      1. Waiting*

        Thank you so much. I’ve been through the government waiting before, but this time it is for a permanent career position that I want very much. In AAM language, I applied to be a Teapot Regulator (I have the required license; I would need to relocate if I got this position). The Department of Teapot Regulation fought to hold the CEO of No-Leak Teapots Inc accountable for people’s serious injuries from defective, leaky teapots for years. The Chief Teapot Regulator filed charges against the CEO, and this week (after a weeks-long trial), the Department prevailed.

        The Chief Teapot Regulator is the person who makes the offer, traditionally. My last interview was with the Deputy Chief. The Deputy seemed to imply that I would get good news- but I can’t know for sure. Public service in teapot safety is my ultimate career goal. I completely understand that the Chief Regulator hasn’t had a moment to spare in weeks, let alone on deciding whether to hire an entry-level Teapot Regulator. It may be irrational, but I’m worried that all my hope is for nothing.

  63. BadWolf*

    For your office amusement, my work area was remodeled about a year ago (it’s an open plan). About once a month, some baseboard and/or decorative trim falls off the wall. I don’t know know what adhesive the construction company used, but it’s clearly a total fail (it’s not wood, it seems to be plastic and/or rubber). At this point, I’m feel like maintenance is eventually going to re-glue all the trim!

    1. periwinkle*

      Start a betting pool on which trim piece will fall and when. That could be two betting pools, really. Pay into the pool with some sort of adhesive product – white glue, duct tape, Post-It notes, packing tape, etc. What the winner will do with 20 bottles of Elmer’s Glue is up to them…

    2. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      They are redoing our office right now and one Friday a chunk of ceiling fell out and would have hit a person had they not moved from their desk not a minute earlier!

  64. cwethan*

    Last week I was packed into a crowded subway car, unexpectedly ended up next to a friend, and started chatting about my (ongoing & stressful) job search. After a few stops the crowd shifted and I realized that standing right behind me the whole time — sharing a pole with me — was someone from one of the hiring committees I’d interviewed with. And yep, I’d been discussing that job. I don’t think I said anything that would truly torpedo my chances of getting the job. The worst thing I said was that this particular job wasn’t my top choice out of all of my possible options, because it’s more about teapot sales in general, and I’m really more into just ceramic teapot sales (something that was clear in my resume & not a problem during the day of interviews).

    Talk me down, please. How badly did I shoot myself in the foot here?

    1. KR*

      I know when I’m on crowded public transit my goal is to block everyone out and get to my destination as fast as possible. There’s a chance the person wasn’t even listening. Just pretend nothing happened!

      2. EmilyG*

        As a former long-haul subway rider, I agree with this! I think there’s a good chance they were blocking everything out and didn’t even notice you until after you noticed her and stopped talking about it. You should feel free to tell yourself this, anyway. Good luck with the search.

      3. Jemima Bond*

        Yeah they were probably reading a book or their kindle or thinking what to make for dinner. Also if you didn’t mention the company (or they didn’t catch it when you did) they may easily not have recognised you, if they have only met you once and they’ve interviewed loads of people. Not to imply of course that your distinctive good looks didn’t make an impact! ;-D

    2. BuffaLove*

      Even if they did hear you, I think there’s a good chance that they would keep it to themselves (I would, at least!). It’s not like you were saying anything rude, and just because it’s not your first choice, that doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t accept it and do a great job there. Try not to worry too much. :)

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Given the other jobs you are looking at, do you really want this job?
      That is the core question here. If you don’t really want this job, then no worries.

      But it could be that you want this job a little more than you realized. What I would do is wait to see if they ask about this comment. Then I would say, “You know how sometimes talking things out with a friend can really help a person to get a perspective? Well I walked away from that conversation realizing that I actually wanted this job more than I let on to my friend. Here is why [fill in with details about this particular job that are important to you]. My friend helped me to get my thinking on this clearer.” Here the goal is to use well thought out reasons to show sincerity and to demonstrate that you actually did put thought in to this.

  65. SAHM Returning to Work*

    Is it weird that I can’t pin my new job down regarding my schedule?

    I accepted a part-time job at a local organization that has hours on the weekend as well as extended beyond the typical 9-5 workday. During the interview and again before accepting (and actually yet again when I was told to report on May 1), I asked about scheduling. I was told the typical schedule is 2 full days and 2 half days, one of those involving an evening each week. I will also be scheduled for one entire weekend each month. I was told that my schedule would be consistent once established. But as of now, I have no idea of the specific days or times I will be working. I start next week, and I don’t even know what time my first day will end.

    I’m returning to work after years as a SAHM, but I still need to account for getting my tween/teen kids from point A to point B after school and in the evenings. I have help available, but they need to know WHEN to be available. This is all complicated, I think, by the fact that my future supervisor has been out on vacation this week, and she is responsible for the schedule. I’m also stressing because my husband was just told he will be out of town for work this coming week, so he obviously won’t be here to pick up any slack.

    Would I be out of line to reach out to her on Monday to ask for at least the first week’s schedule? The grand-boss I have been communicating with doesn’t seem to understand my desire to know when I will be working.

    1. Ann Furthermore*

      Monday is the 30th, so I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I think you can say that your husband will be out of town next week, so you need to make sure you’ve got all the logistical kid stuff handled. I would think after you start you’ll know your hours and schedule ahead of time.

    2. KR*

      That’s a perfectly good thing to want to know. “Hi Lucinda, could you please pass along my first weeks schedule when it is completed? I need to arrange child care.” Good luck with the new job. Do you have any family or friends that could help you while husband is away?

      1. SAHM Returning to Work*

        Luckily, I do! My Mom is on stand-by, but she’s a planner and would like to know when she will be needed. I’m used to handling everything myself, so it’s a little nerve-wracking to have to coordinate everybody’s schedule without knowing mine.

        I’ll call my supervisor Monday–I just wish they could have provided more information any of the other three times I asked!

        1. A Nickname for AAM*

          I work for an organization that schedules part-time employees similarly, and I hate to say it, but you need to be politely firm about this upfront. Because organizations like this inherently Take. They will Take, and Take, and Take, and then make you feel bad for not giving enough. Part-time supervisors rarely care about their staff’s outside schedules and will torture you for not being available at their beck and call. One of my current employees was written up by my predecessor for *refusing to skip a final exam* to cover a shift.

          If they won’t work with your schedule, then you really need to look for another job.

          1. SAHM Returning to Work*

            Thank you for this perspective. A relative who works for a similar organization said the same thing. While I’m excited to have this opportunity, it isn’t strictly necessary for me to go back to work. If the scheduling stays this loosey goosey, I have no problem walking away.

  66. Still Looking*

    It’s near impossible to find a place where I can consistantly take phone interviews. Often there is are many other people talking, traffic (foot and vehicle), contruction, and the occasional helicopter making a roof landing.

    The best places I’ve found like the basement and other quiet area without much foot traffic are also the same places without cell reception. :( Cafes near me are often crowded and noisy. There is one that is less crowded but all of these places have music playing. My car is not an option. There is no parking available on site for less than $50+ day, and a couple of those garages are in the middle of loud construction. My car is parked 20-30 minutes away from where I work. There are no empty conference rooms except in the basement where there’s no signal. I sometimes go outside, but obviously this is weather permitting, and lately the weather has not been permitting.

    Any other ideas? I share an office. Obviously can’t have these conversations in front of my co-worker. I am afraid to use the stairwell because my boss and grandboss use it all the time.

    1. Tuxedo Cat*

      Are you close to a library? In my local library, there are rooms you can reserve for meetings. They’re free and people are welcome to talk in them.

    2. Ann Furthermore*

      Is there another building close by where you could go sit in the lobby and take a phone call? Or maybe the lobby of a hotel? Phone screens typically don’t take that long…usually about 30 minutes. It’s not like you’d be setting up camp for hours at a time.

    4. Fishsticks*

      Try hotel lobbies? The fancier ones frequently have meeting space (generally couches and desks) that you can just go into. You may have to do some googling for your area to see what floor it’s on. For example there’s a hotel my boss uses to meet people sometime that has a general lounge/business space on the 9th floor.

      1. epi*

        This is what I used to do. You can absolutely use the lobbies of hotels you aren’t staying at as long as you behave normally. If they are near offices, they expect to be hosting business travelers and guests who work nearby. And yes, sometimes they are upstairs and it’s fine to ask and then just go up.

        I once had a job that required me to go around to anywhere that sold cigarettes and take a look at what they had and what the price was, so it included a bunch of hotel shops. It felt super awkward at first, like people would realize I wasn’t staying there and ask me to leave. Even dressed like an escaped camp counselor, obviously not staying at this ritzy downtown hotel or taking an important meeting in the sky lobby, people were nothing but helpful and my presence was never questioned.

      1. Bea W*

        It does, but no reliable wifi in the dead areas either! This must be why they’re all quiet. LOL.

    6. SpaceNovice*

      There are passive cell phone reception boosters that you can get for your particular network. Try one of those? You might be able to stick the antenna somewhere close enough to get a signal.

    7. Bea W*

      This is the Longwood Medical area Boston – in case anyone is familiar with it. So far no luck finding any place open to the public that isn’t extremely busy. I often sit in one area that is usually not bad, but then a horde of people and children passed through in the middle of the interview, and despite assurances from the HM it wasn’t a problem, it was the reason he gave for not moving forward, too much noise, especially loud children, during the call.

      1. Cheerchairperson*

        Hmm can you Skype call instead and use headphones/headset which would hopefully decrease the noise – or even something similar for your cellphone?

      2. An Archivist*

        Are you affiliated with Harvard in any way? Countway Library of Medicine has group study rooms you could reserve if you need a space.

      3. SarahCynthiaSylviaStout*

        Landmark Center has some quieter spaces, not rooms really, but corners off the main areas. Sometimes the hospital conference rooms are empty but that would be very hit or miss (if open I’ll use a corner to work before meetings). If it was a nice enough day (or not bad enough, essentially) I’d head toward the Muddy River and find a bench or just stroll on the paths. Seconding Countway depending on your affiliation. Wheelock and Simmons have libraries too in the area.

    8. Cheerchairperson*

      Are you allowed to book meeting rooms at work? Assuming this at lunch or after hours I can’t imagine anyone would be that bothered – or claim you need to focus or get some difficult bank call done and need a private place to talk. Our booking room system is all done via outlook so there would be no one I needed to check this with especially for lunch or after hours as they’d be free around then.

      1. Jules the Third*

        The meeting rooms are all in the basement, where epi gets no signal.

        Are there any local churches? You could try their graveyards… (and I’m only half joking)

  67. Tuxedo Cat*

    I need some virtual hugs if you all can offer them. I just had a horrific phone screen. A few weeks ago, I had a good phone screen for a job they wanted to move on quickly and never got another interview.

    I’m just tired of being underemployed. For personal reasons beyond financial, I need a job.

    1. Landshark*

      If it makes you feel better, sometimes the ones you think you bombed turn out well. Regardless, I hope you find the job you want/need, and [colossal internet hug]

      1. Tuxedo Cat*

        Thanks. I’m pretty sure I bombed this one because there were no opportunities whatsoever to ask any questions about the position.

        1. Jemima Bond*

          That sounds like an employer you don’t really want to work for!
          Have an Internet-hug from me though (((hug)))

    2. Cheerchairperson*

      I’m sorry I had a sucky interview this week where I was majorly prepared but they’d misread my application believed I was something I was not and then proceeded to be majorly uninterested in the process plus barely ask me any questions that made sense.

    3. BuffaLove*

      I’m sorry. I had some truly horrific phone interviews during my last job search, but something did come through before too long. I hope something does for you too, and stat!

  68. DataQueen*

    Dealing with a situation at work right now that I don’t know how to deal with. There’s a woman on another team who is being extremely demanding with me and my team – insisting that we send detailed notes after vendor meetings that don’t require it (and when I asked what she needed followup on, she said “they’re our vendor, so they should do what i ask”), insisting that we switch from email to some weird co-working platform only she uses, demanding that things be sent in word vs. PDF. Now, if you’re thinking all of this is reasonable, it totally is – if she wasn’t DEMANDING it. Her tone is the biggest issue. I’m the Director of the department, which here is a pretty high-up title. She’s a senior associate, which is pretty low on the totum pole. I’m 3rd of 8 positions from the top, she’s 7th. This is the kind of company where you would NEVER pull rank like that, but how do you shut someone down who’s so weirdly demanding of someone so much senior than her? Her boss’s boss, who is my peer, just sees the requests at face value, so his response has been, “well, why can’t you just send it in word?” which is perfectly true, but it’s more that she’s basically been saying “I won’t do this assignment unless you send it in word” and sometimes, you just have to transcribe a PDF because that’s what someone more senior sent to you.

    Am i being weirdly sensitive to how demanding she is about these process things when she’s so junior? Can I push back and say “this is how we do it, and you still have to do the work even when it’s not the way you like”? Can I pull a “I’m a Director so deal with it” without being a huge jerk? I don’t know how to deal with this!

    1. SpaceNovice*

      Tone management is important and she’s failing at it. Your boss might not understand why it’s important (which is uh not good). Sounds like she’s trying to prove herself and is instead proving herself a jerk. She needs help realizing she’s sounding like a complete tool and needs to work together to reach a middleground that everyone can work with. Look into Alison’s latest podcast about tone to be able to give more constructive feedback.

      You have a right to be annoyed! That’d make me mad, too. She has unrealistic expectations and that’s going to hurt her for the rest of her career if they’re not fixed.

    2. LCL*

      Nicely offer her a private tutorial on converting between word and PDF. But watch her, sometimes people want things in word so they can make their own edits.
      Regarding sending her the meeting notes: does your team regularly make detailed notes? If yes, send her a copy in PDF. If you don’t take that kind of notes, don’t start for her.
      At my job, Director is a very powerful title. That means you are the top person of your division. If you have the power, tell her ‘that is my decision. Make an appointment with me if you want to go over the procedure.’

      The way you shut down someone who is so demanding is to tell them no. Be prepared to explain your reasoning, but on your timetable. Don’t worry about hurting their feelings-demanding is their personality, they will have forgotten all about it tomorrow and move on to demanding the next thing. You can’t make them stop demanding, they can’t make you comply with demands just because they demanded it.

        1. LCL*

          I think a little bit of one on one time with pushy worker is exactly what Data Queen needs right now. 30-60 minutes working alone with her will give her a lot of insight into what is going on with pushy coworker and exactly what is motivating her. Right now it could be pc is clueless to company norms, or pc could be ambitious as eff and a backstabber. In some tech fields the top of the top is expected to do an occasional small amount of production work, to show they remember how and are still in control.

    3. Kathenus*

      Start with clarifying the problem – is it what she’s asking you to do, or the way she’s doing it? It sounds primarily like the latter. If that’s the case, that’s what you should focus on. As the leader of your team, it’s perfectly within your purview to give her feedback on her communication style. Something like “Jane, your requests to me and my team come across like demands. Please use more professional communication when interacting with my staff.” Repeat as necessary – and if you can use specific examples all the better.

      If the requests themselves, or some of them, are out of line, then address those specifically – without bringing up the tone then so you don’t dilute the main meaning of the message. PDF vs. Word – fine, we can do that. Detailed notes from a vendor meeting that you wouldn’t normally do? Maybe it’s a no, maybe it’s a request for a template of information she wants that you can fill in versus being expected to note everything discussed.

      The key is to figure out the goal of the message to her, and craft your response to that particular goal and clearly let her know what you need from her, and what you can/cannot (or will/will not) do.

      1. Jules the Third*

        DataQueen, in what format are you seeing these requests? Is it all text / email?

        If there’s no voice involved, miscommunication, especially around tone, becomes really easy. Your first task is to separate what from how, and make sure that you answer based on what. You are the boss; any ‘demands’ she makes, YOU have the power to decide. Do work to see if she’s got a point.

        Secondly – why are you seeing these requests? At that level of difference, shouldn’t someone else be discussing things with her, and reviewing her requests? Someone close to the work she’s doing, so they can make decisions without needing to learn about the details and implications? In my company, it’s weird to jump more than a couple of levels; if I’m talking to someone 3 levels above me, then it’s a Big Deal, usually involving at least 1% of revenue, including me looping in my boss to help advocate for me. 4 levels doesn’t even know my name.

        I think, from your note, that tone is what’s really bugging you. Check that you are not reading into it – imagine if it was sent by someone who work with whom you like and trust. Would the tone still come across as demanding? TBH, I think the answer is yes if ‘she won’t do the assignment unless the doc is in word,’ but checking to be sure will help clear your confusion.

        If you do decide it’s tone, the kind response is, ‘Discuss process changes with Sub-Director Smith’, and then, privately, IF you want to engage and nurture her career, have a verbal discussion with her about how tone gets flattened by text, and so she should be extra careful about it. Give some examples, like, ‘The work flow will go more smoothly with a Word doc’ or ‘I’m concerned we may be missing important information from this vendor because a, b, c’.

        If you’re not interested in nurturing her career, then roll your eyes and let it go – don’t let annoyance at her tone derail you. You have the power and control; you can afford to let tone roll off your back.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      She is at #2. When you see something three times you have a pattern.
      So #1 was detailed notes, #2 is word vs PDF. It’s seems she could keep pushing on things here.

      I think you are wise. This person shows potential to be a difficult employee.
      So why can’t you just send it in word?
      1) Because detailed reports are not necessary regardless of the file format.
      2)Because Word can be tampered with, altered. So now the company could end up with an unnecessary document that may have been tampered with.Why? And why are waste people’s time?
      3) Because it was a demand not a request and teeters on insubordination in that she is trying to boss bosses around. It is easy to assume this behavior will get worse, if left unchecked.
      4) Because she can convert the files herself if need be. What is the need for this anyway?

      Stand up for your peeps, if she is willing to do this and be seen doing it then she is probably treating them like crap behind your back.

    5. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      I think the key is to keep your tone calm but authoritative, but call a spade a spade IMO: “Scarlet, my team is happy to assist you, however I’m going to need you to accept that we won’t be able to accommodate all of your demands…(long pause)…and it’s necessary that you communicate with me and my team respectfully. Going forward, please email your requests to my assistant, Wakeen, (to clue her in that you are way above her on the org chart) and Wakeen will let you know what my department can and can’t accommodate.” Since none of her requests are outlandish (except maybe switching from email to a co-working platform which seems eyebrow raising if that is not a new company-wide platform that’s being implemented) pick which ones you’ll do, and how far you are willing to assist her without upsetting your peer.

    6. DataQueen*

      Thanks all for your advice! I’m glad I’m not being oversensitive. I’m going to send her to my admin Wakeena and remind her that I will do what I can/want to do. Thanks!

  69. Tasslehoff Burrfoot*

    So I have this coworker, Susan, who acts like certain people here walk on water. To the point that she will actually claim that she’s the one who made a mistake that one of them clearly made. It’s bizarre, really. We were looking for something once that should have been included with some other information that “Mary” keeps. Susan insisted that Mary had this information – we weren’t looking hard enough obviously. She knows Mary and Mary definitely has that info. Well, Mary didn’t have the info.
    Most recently, though, I found a coding mistake on an invoice. When I asked Susan about it – because Susan handles AP – she said if the coding was in error that it was because she, Susan, had obviously keyed it in incorrectly; it was definitely NOT because Mary had coded it wrong. I asked to see the invoice anyway and turns out Mary coded it wrong. Don’t get me wrong – Mary does great work and doesn’t generally make a lot of mistakes, but as she’s human she’s as capable of making a mistake as anyone. It’s just so weird that Susan flies to Mary’s defense when there’s even an inkling that someone might be accusing her of making a mistake. She does this with the Executive Director as well.
    Oh well, I guess it takes all kinds.

    1. Schnoodle*

      Is Mary her boss? Sometimes people might take the “your job is to make me look good” a bit far.

    2. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      I wonder if Susan is rather thinking of herself as some sort of White Knight rather than believing the others are infallible. Maybe she wants Mary and the ED to think of HER as the one who walks on water. I think that this is what a now former employee did at my university. She selectively threw herself on a sword here and there just to convince her boss and coworkers she was THE #1 Team Player.

      My experience: Nobody, outside of her direct department, could stand PeggySue — even a few Deans and a VP refused to work with her — but her coworkers did, and still vocally do, believe she caused the sun to rise and set. A year after her dismissal they still talk about how PeggySue really went to bat for them and got things done… Anybody not on team PeggySue however saw her as deceitful, undermining (even occasionally against her own team ironically) and a black whole who caused projects to come to a complete standstill until she was absolutely forced by her boss to do her part. But she made a big show of how she was standing up for her team and giving them and herself credit…for others’ work.

  70. Ann Furthermore*

    I was offered a new job on Monday, which I accepted! Woo hoo! I’m really excited. This new company seems like it will be a really fun, energetic place to work, which is pretty much the polar opposite of where I am now. The salary is a lateral move, but there’s an annual bonus, plus, the benefits are WAY cheaper than what I’m paying now, so it will still be a bigger paycheck. It’s downtown, and the train stops literally right across the street from the office building, so that’s 40 minutes each way to read or just chill every day. Plus I’ll still get one WFH day per week. Right now, I’m doing 3 days a week at home or more, which I love, but I also recognize that I have serious hermit tendencies, so being out in the world interacting with other human beings more often is good for me. I got a nice email from the onboarding person telling me what time to show up on my first day and where to go. And my future boss has emailed me a couple times – first to ask what my legal (TSA) name is so they can get me set up in their travel system, and then again yesterday to invite me to a baseball game with the rest of the department during my first week.

    My onboarding email said that they’re working on getting me a laptop, email access, and all the rest of it so that will be all ready on the first day. That was a nice change…on my first day at my current job, my boss handed me my laptop, still in the box, and told me the only thing she needed me to do on my first day was to get my laptop configured and set up. If I’m having any system issues, then the IT department is me and Google. Plus I’m pretty sure that the laptop I’ve got now was the cheapest one available, because I think it weighs about 30 pounds.

    So…the only thing I’m apprehensive about is that I’ll be working in a completely open office environment – not even half-cubicle walls. Just desks all lined up beside each other. I’ve never worked in that sort of environment before. But in the grand scheme of things, that would be a really stupid reason to turn down a job when I got such good vibes about everything else. I’m an old fart – just turned 50 last year, so I recognize that more and more offices are moving towards this type of setup, and I need to keep an open mind and be willing to try new things. But…as a rather introverted person, it will take some getting used to. Any advice from anyone out there about surviving in an open office as an introvert?

    1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      The WFH day will be your saving grace! I get at least one, if not two per week and they are needed because not everyone has a desk. But I get so SO much more done at home that I try and block work for those days and do the meeting things on the days when I am in the office.

      I am not going to lie, I have really struggled with the open offices here as I find them mentally exhausting. Its not just so much the noise its also the visual distraction that I find tiresome as well. Some people swear by noise cancelling headphones, but I like in-ear phones with ocean sounds to block things out. I also get out at lunch for a walk for the visual/auditory break. Just expect to be really tired the first couple of weeks or month, identify any quiet spaces where you can possible work, and get some noise cancelling headphones because wearing those usually signifies ‘dont talk to me im thinking’.

    3. AeroEngineer*

      Noise cancelling headphones with active noise cancelling. I don’t have the active noise cancelling on all the time, but they are my lifesaver for when things get loud or I need some alone time.

  71. semi-regular going anon*

    My grandboss is retiring. Her last day is today. At a staff meeting earlier this week her replacement was introduced. Two different people outside of our department have offered their condolences on our new department manager and someone who was supposed to start her next week cancelled his transfer. It was an internal transfer, he works at a different office. He wanted to come here because it would change his commute from 1.5 hours to under 30 minutes and it was a higher title. I have been in touch with him over email and Skype to facilitate the transition. He won’t work under the replacement. The two people who offered their condolences are either from other branches or are here but in a different department. I am getting worried. I remember the letter from the person where someone quit when they found out they were getting a new boss and who it was. I’m not a manager. Do I have still have standing to ask about this? I am trying to take the wait and see approach but it is hard. Thank you to anyone who read my question.

    1. martine*

      No advice, but I just wanted to say I hope it works out and you end up in a good place with the new boss (or eveb somewhere else). My fingers are crossed for you.

      (Was there ever an update to the quitting rather than working for this person letter? I’m so curious)

    2. Susan Sto Helit*

      It sounds like you might have legitimate cause for concern. That said, the hire has been made and they’re going to be your new boss regardless. so I think you’re going to have to do your best to forget about it and approach the situation with an open mind.

      For one thing, one person’s bad boss can be another person’s good (or at least neutral) boss.

      For another, you don’t want to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you go into the situation expecting to have problems with them, you’re more likely to – or more likely to perceive things as problems when normally you might not notice them.

      Try going into it determined that you’re going to have a good relationship with your grandboss, and you’re going to work on making that happen. If it still turns out they suck, then fair enough. But you can at least give the situation the best possible chance of being ok before then.

    3. periwinkle*

      Have any of these people offered an explanation of why they’ve reacted the way they did? Is she a bad manager (weak, ineffective, micromanaging, unresponsive, etc.) or is bad behavior the issue (throws people under the bus, unreasonable,, prone to favoritism, generally a jerk)? I’d be most curious about the explanation from the person who turned down a significantly shorter commute and higher title (with presumably higher pay) because of this new manager.

      While you should still take what they say with a certain amount of skepticism (a “horrible” manager to some people might be one who actually holds employees accountable for their work), it could be helpful to know what to expect when the new manager shows up. (and please report back because now I’m curious – what is so awful about this person that someone would rather keep commuting 1.5 hours?)

  72. Coqui*

    What are some ways to talk to a direct report about his attitude? I’m a new manager and struggling with this.

    Direct report “John” has been in a funk since last week after I gave him a project that he deemed “beneath him” and his attitude has not improved. John is a student intern and always had an almost over-the-top, contrived cheerful personality. He is about 10 years older than the other interns and a bit older than me, and as a result has made a few comments about his displeasure in the pay and type of work that he has to do considering he has x-number of years experience in the workforce. All of the interns are treated equally in terms of volume and type of work done and because of the nature of the job much of it is entry-level work or things that full-time employees do not have the time to do.

    As a recap, last week I sent an email to all of the interns and my small team informing them that we as a team cannot let the area pile up because it is a safety hazard as determined by HR, creating more work for us, and embarrassing because it is in plain sight of guests walking through the department. I also included a note about us keeping our areas clean and tidy; I did not elaborate, but the inclusion of that note was because we had a recent complaint by the IT director that some of our work spaces were junky and reflected badly on the department. I did not feel that I had to explain the reasons why I’m asking my reports to do certain things. John became offended by this email and informed me that he accepted this internship to learn and not clean. Since sending that email last Thursday John has not spoken to me with the exception of 3 questions he had to ask in order to close out of an assignment. When I walked to his cubicle to answer his questions he did not take his eyes off the computer screen and sounded robotic with his replies. He has ceased all other job duties with the exception of answering support phones and I have seen him playing on his phone and watching videos while the other student employees are completing other shared job duties.

    We have had a lot of prior issues with John, mostly with him not following instructions or going around the people in charge until he gets the answer he wants. My boss knows of the issues and says he will terminate John’s employment at the end of summer in 3.5 months. That’s a long time to deal with an employee who is ticked off and doesn’t care anymore.

    What are some ways I can handle this situation?

      1. Coqui*

        Boss is swamped and just won’t deal with it right now. He talks a big game but we never see any action.

        2. rldk*

          Any way you can help facilitate the termination? Documentation, write-up of reason, so that all Boss needs to do is pass it along appropriate channels?
          Failing that, do you have authority to limit his work further or deny him perks/flexibility that are earned through good work?

    2. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Honestly, if I was you, I’d be 100% blunt and direct about how his attitude needs to improve. If you’d be happy to be rid of him, there’s no reason to pull punches. Maybe he will just quit and save you a summer of misery!

    3. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

      I think the only thing you can do, realistically, is plan a party for 3 months, 2 weeks, and one day from now. John sounds awful- insubordinate, unpleasant, and somehow above complying with instructions to prevent safety hazards (???). I’m sorry that your boss didn’t fire him immediately and that decision seems illogical. I don’t see any benefit to keeping a student intern who is very disrespectful to an employee with the organization for such a long time. Best wishes that time flies or John quits.

    4. Susan Sto Helit*

      If you’re lucky, John is checked out because he’s already decided to quit and go elsewhere. Cross your fingers.

    5. Lora*

      I suppose the easier way would be to ask him what he expects from an internship exactly and see if you can contrive a project that is low level but similar to Grand High Royal Right Whatever he thinks he should be. It’s not fair, it’s not even useful, but it would be something that he would maybe do other than play on his phone. And once you’ve given him the task, promptly forget about him until it’s termination time. That’s what would take up the least of your time and energy.

      It will look like a reward for bad behavior though.

      The hard way is to have a serious conversation with him and explain that it is an internship and if he doesn’t want to do intern work he is welcome to find a different internship elsewhere, but this is the job he signed up for. And then stand over him like you’re babysitting a small child and walk him through the next three months. You may not have time to do this.

      Or you can write him off completely, ignore his playing on the internet and count paying him for three months as a wash. Figure that in any group of interns you naturally get a few crummy ones, luck of the draw.

      1. Temperance*

        The problem with this is that the other interns are effectively punished for behaving appropriately. I would keep assigning him menial tasks, personally, becuase he sounds unpleasant and like a total ass.

    6. SpaceNovice*

      Ask to put him on a PIP to facilitate that termination. If you start doing that and he doesn’t improve, you might be able to make him want to quit. But seriously, his attitude is affecting the workplace and he needs to go. He sounds like an awful employee, and while I’m always in favor of working with people, he’s way too high maintenance and has unrealistic expectations. Also he sounds like a potential insider threat. Keep a close eye on what he does.

    7. N Twello*

      Unless an employee is at reception, it’s tricky telling them to clean their desk. This is their personal area. People have different ways of organizing their stuff. Some like to keep toys, photos, plants, etc nearby. Some are just more comfortable in a messy environment. You might not understand that, but it’s true.

      Over my career I have evolved a way that I am most productive, and it involves a pretty messy desk. I am very offended when told to clean off my desk. When I’m given no reason or a fake reason, I am especially bothered by it.

      People who sit in cubicles that are clearly visible can feel that they are afforded less dignity than people who have offices or more remote cubicles. You should have some empathy about how you treat them.

      This sentence raised a red flag for me: “I did not feel that I had to explain the reasons why I’m asking my reports to do certain things.” It looks to me like your attitude and management style is part of your problems with John. You might find that you have similar problems with other reports unless you rethink your attitude.

      Even though John is an intern, he’s a human being and he’s your responsibility at work. Even though the situation has become very bad, you should try to work on it. Try to focus on his positives. Even if you can’t salvage John, it will help you with your own management growth.

      1. Coqui*

        Hi N Twello, I understand your concerns. However, the desk is actually a reception area and is shared by all 3 interns. It is the first desk that is seen when people enter the department and at any given time can have boxes of broken computer equipment, network cables, papers, etc. scattered not only on top of the desk where guests sign in, but also trailing into the sitting area beside the desk. Keeping this area clean is part of their job duties, which is stressed by the IT director. John bucks authority and I have a great working relationship with the other two interns. I’d ask that you trust my word on this one.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Eh, since your boss won’t handle it, I would use it as a teaching opportunity. He is an intern.

      Here’s what I would cover:
      1) Any job is going to require a certain amount of cleaning. Even if it is just to clean up your food containers from lunch or toss out unnecessary papers. This all comes under the heading of cleaning.
      2) Frosty behavior or deliberately ignoring people is not professional behavior and is not acceptable in any work place. “If someone is speaking to you, then you need to give them your full attention.”
      3)On-going grudges are not acceptable in the work place because they cause a disruption in work flow. “In this case here, John, you and everyone else were asked to pick up after yourselves. This is a fairly normal request for most work places. And no, it is not beneath you or anyone else here. A messy environment is not safe nor healthy, period.”
      4) “John, these are basics to all jobs, clean up after yourself and maintain a professional relationship with EVERYONE on a daily basis. Going forward, this is what the company expects out of all of us including you.”

      As far as the tasks being beneath him, I would point out that this is what the internship requires. It is what it is, and it’s up to him to maintain a pleasant attitude and do the work efficiently.
      Don’t apologize for menial work. Don’t feel guilty about it. You can go as far as saying, “I have tasks I dislike also, but I am responsible for them so I do them.”
      If he throws out his years experience in the work force, then you can say something like, “That’s great! So you already know these things that I am talking about and there should be no more problem going forward, correct?”

      Good luck. Some people won’t let us help them. Then some people will surprise the crap out of us and turn around. One thing I have seen is that you really cannot predict who will let us help them. And sometimes the people who have let me help them are the ones I have almost given up on.

    9. Jessi*

      I would give him the hard chat! presumably he is interning because he wants to move on to bigger and better things right? I would use language like “Hey, your attitude is really not ok. All interns here at Llama corp are expected to follow their supervisors instructions and you are no exception. Many of our interns go onto to work other jobs and we are often asked to provide a reference, at this point in time your reference would not be great. From now on I need to you ‘come with a positive can do attitude/ do as you are asked/ be pleasant to your co-workers/ do all assigned job duties. Can you do that? If he says yes, document it, if he says no, maybe say something like ‘Maybe you should take the weekend to think about if this is the right internship for you’

      1. Hellanon*

        And if he is a student intern, get in touch with his program supervisor at the college & explain the situation to them. This in NOT appropriate intern behavior, even if the intern in question resents having to do the internship.

      2. Tabby Baltimore*

        Honestly, I think Jessi’s is the best response here of the mix, but NSNR is a very close 2nd. You might just need to cut to the chase for him, and make sure he completely and clearly understands the consequences of his current actions. Please check in with us again and let us know how you are doing.

  73. Emmie*

    Any good handouts for ergonomic office set ups? Any good training you’ve attended?

    I’m looking to update my process, and would love your help!

  74. Jen RO*

    Yet another question about the A/C wars…

    A person in my department, let’s call her Stacy, is not happy about the air conditioning. How do you think her manager (my friend) should handle this?

    The long story: Stacy claims that the A/C is making her sick and requested to be allowed to work from home for that reason. Work from home is allowed here, but only as an exception (e.g. you are waiting for furniture to be delivered, a pipe burst, etc).

    While the temperature is never ideal for everyone, Stacy is the only one complaining so much. She first said that the filters are not cleaned properly – facilities confirmed they are cleaned twice a year and the last cleaning was 2 months ago. The other people are either comfortable with the temperature or they bring a cardigan. (I would personally prefer it to be a little warmer, but I acknowledge the fact that I am a naturally cold person and I can’t force the rest of the department to boil, so I have resigned myself to the idea of not wearing sandals in summer.)

    Where is the line? She does get sick a lot, but my opinion here is that we can’t allow her to WFH just to avoid the A/C. She was offered the possibility of choosing a different desk, but she declined. (She chose her current desk herself, because it’s furthest away from the vent.) The A/C is just a reality of working in an open space plan and I think she should just learn to deal with it. Am I too harsh?

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I’m not sure that “just deal with getting sick” is really a good mentality. You seem to think that she’s not being accurate in that regard, but agree that she does get sick often. It would be interesting to know what she’s been able to bring in terms of medical documentation supporting her claim.

      1. Jen RO*

        She hasn’t brought anything yet, she just said she gets a lot of colds and she’s sure it’s because of the A/C.

          1. Courageous cat*

            Agreed, howeeeever… depending on where the vent is, A/C can definitely give me a sore throat because of the dryness of the air, which will aggravate my sinuses and just sort of snowball into a full-blown cold or sinus/throat issue. I definitely can’t have cold air or even a fan blowing on me in my sleep or I’ll wake up with it.

            In this case though, a humidifier would definitely help. Maybe she should look into trying that. Or just being away from actively blowing vents.

          2. TootsNYC*

            A/C can aggravate allergies by flinging dust around in the air, and those can look like a cold, and can turn into sinus infections or chest infections.

    2. Emmie*

      No. You are not too harsh. I am a naturally cold person. There are plenty of other options like being more flexible on a desk, wearing heavier clothes, and asking for a space heater. I think you should let this one go, and not be involved in these conversations.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Cold air doesn’t make people sick. If there were something in the environment that was actually affecting her health (mold in the vents, cold air makes her Reynauds kick up, she’s allergic to something, etc.) I’d work with her, but unless she and her doctor can come up some evidence that the a/c is actually making her ill, I’d tell her I’m sorry, this isn’t a WFH case.

      1. Jen RO*

        I’m not sure how that would work – there isn’t one air conditioning unit, the air comes through vents in the ceiling (she doesn’t sit directly under one).

    5. Q*

      Is it possible to move her seat? I used to have a person who complained all the time about how cold it was and we all thought she was just being a drama llama. Then one day I had to sit at her computer to set something up and the arctic blast of cold air coming out of the vent directly above her chair was indeed very uncomfortable. And I was only there 5 minutes! The next day we moved her to a cubicle the next row over and all was well.

      1. Jen RO*

        Her manager asked her to look for another desk (we have quite a few free ones) and she refused because she thinks it won’t make a difference.

        1. SoCalHR*

          That’s the part of the story that throws up a red flag for me – not trying to find a solution other than work from home. All in-office solutions should be vetted (new seat, space heater, snuggie, etc) before the extreme work from home solution.

        2. Little Bean*

          Your original post said Stacy already chose her current desk herself because it is farthest away from the vent. That’s an important detail here – she’s not just refusing because she is unwilling to consider alternatives, it sounds like she has already checked out other desks and determined this is the best spot but it’s still not good enough.

          1. Jen RO*

            Yeah, pretty much. On paper at least, she is furthest away from the sources of cold.

            Though I will try Q’s suggestion – maybe there *is* something that causes the location of her desk to be colder than everyone else’s, some air currents or whatever.

    6. The Ginger Ginger*

      It sounds like she’s asking for an unreasonable accommodation when there should be a few other options considered first. As others have said, a different desk, a heavy sweater or blanket for the office, fingerless gloves, a space heater — especially if the issue is that she’s very cold and not some kind of clean air issue. Working from home whenever the AC is on is kind of the nuclear option here and it’s a little strange that was the first solution she requested. That said, this really is between her, her doctor, and her manager (and maybe HR if some time legal accommodation request is being made).

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        And I never want to be in the business of not believing people about their illnesses, but if the complaints she’s making is that she’s getting frequent run-of-the-mill colds because she is too cold at work so she should be allowed to work from home, that’s….not medically sound, and it kind of comes across as she wants to work remotely and is grabbing this as an excuse. If it’s an issue of mold or dust or filters or something, that would be one thing, but not just because she’s cold. Some people are just prone to colds. I’m one of them. It comes with being an asthmatic who’s allergic to stuff.

        1. Jen RO*

          I don’t think she is using this as an excuse – she only asked for partial WFH (1-2 days a week). I do think she is getting ill, but I don’t think it’s the A/C. I think she is just someone prone to illness and a bit of a drama queen. (Not just because of this – she has a habit of exaggerating minor things.)

          1. ..Kat..*

            If she is a good worker, 1 to 2 days a week WFH is not a big deal. Is she a good worker?

    7. Susan Sto Helit*

      I share a dislike of A/C – the air quality is never as good and it tends to be very dry, which in turn can dry out your nasal passages and increase your chances of catching something. So she may have a point, alongside a weak immune system.

      Given that you’re stuck with it though, it’s worth seeing what else you can do to improve the air quality in the office. Bringing in more plants is one option, as they are good for air quality and can have other benefits as well (studies suggest that employees are happier when there are more plants around). A humidifier might also help – or sitting near a window that opens, if you have them.

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        Oh, yes. A humidifier is a good idea. That can really help with painful sinuses. Even one that just sits on her desk.

        1. rocklobstah*

          Unless the humidifier is kept incredibly clean and the water used is purified, humidifiers can become a source of mold, dust and microbes.

      2. Jen RO*

        I think you’re on to something – I am sure she is not lying about this or using it as an excuse to WFH, she is legitimately getting ill. My guess is that she has a weak immune system and she catches viruses on her way to work or something… but it’s not something either of us can know for sure.

        I will suggest a humidifier, maybe it helps her.

    8. Admin of Sys*

      Hmm – as someone with occasional bad allergies, who used to work in an ancient building, it is possible the AC actually is exacerbating her issues, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the sort of thing the office supports for remote work. Can you offer to get her a desktop airfilter? If it’s actually allergens, that should help a lot. And if it’s just that she doesn’t want to work in the office or is too cold – well, that’s an independent issue she can learn to deal with.

    9. SpaceNovice*

      Actually, I’m going to disagree with literally everyone that has replied so far, but that’s because I have more information–being too cold CAN make you sick. But only if you have an underlying health issue. Stacy needs to go to the doctor and get tested for hypothyroidism or other conditions that make it so hard on her body to stay warm. Then, if she has something, better accommodations can be made for her (small space heater, bumping up the temperatures to 71/72 which they should be at ANYWAY to maximize work efficiency for people).

      For hypothyroidism: you have a limited amount of T3 hormone. A cold office means you use up your T3 staying warm. The rest of your body has no T3 available, then. So you have cognitive issues (brain fog, no concentration, losing hours at a time, short/long term memory problems), physical problems (freezing, can’t move well), immune system deficiencies (yes, you get sick more often), or you can even end up in the hospital, almost passing out. Too cold of temperatures sent me to the hospital.

      Of course, an average person wouldn’t think of any of this or know of it. But yeah, she could entirely be right that it’s making her ill. I only didn’t complain bitterly about the cold because I was basically catatonic from it so I couldn’t get angry.

      1. SpaceNovice*

        Also, yeah, I can see her jumping immediately to WFH being the solution–she probably has the temperature up to the level her body can comfortably function at, and she can probably see immediate improvements in how she feels. Cold offices can literally sap all the strength from me. I have to actively manage temperatures (I use a space heater at work, and you can get small ones that don’t make everyone else melt).

      2. Jen RO*

        I actually wanted to mention the temperature in the initial post because I knew American offices were way, way colder than my comfort level! The minimum temperature is usually around 71F (22C), but I think she would like it to be closer to 77F (25C).

        (That said, to me, 77F is an ideal temperature, but I know I am not most people. My thyroid is fine, but I also go into “hibernation” when it’s too cold – my brain just slows down! )

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          I would be SO uncomfortably hot at 77F. 71F sounds very reasonable, although having the thermostat set at 71 doesn’t mean it’s 71 at her desk. I know you said her desk was farthest from the vent, but that doesn’t mean it’s the warmest spot. Airflow is tricky sometimes. I’d ask her to check out different areas anyway. Not that I think it would make a difference to her health, but it could still make her more comfortable, and if she’s warmer but she still gets sick, it can help convince her that the office temperature is not the problem.

          Now, if it turns out she simply has a weak immune system, is WFH a reasonable option? Does she want to work at home because she’s too sick to come to the office but still thinks she can work? Or is she trying to minimize her time in the office in hopes that she’ll get sick less oftenK?

          1. SpaceNovice*

            Get a little digital thermometer clock and spot-check a few spots. Or if someone mysteriously has access to a thermal camera, that can also work. (Maintenance might have one?)

            Also, I agree with Rusty Shackleford in going to talk to the employee about her immune system, too. Try to work something out by sitting down and having a proper conversation that doesn’t put anyone immediately on the defensive. That might be getting in the way of getting to the bottom of her needs.

          2. Jen RO*

            She wants to WFH because she thinks she will get sick less often. From what I understand, she doesn’t get can’t-work-it’s-so-bad sick, just a lot of colds that make her uncomfortable.

            1. Rusty Shackelford*

              Okay. I’d find that a little harder to accommodate. I mean, I completely understand that she doesn’t want to get sick. But a) it sounds like an annoying level of sickness rather than a debilitating level of sickness, and more importantly b) there’s no reason to believe the office is responsible for her sickness, other than “exposure to human beings.”

        2. SpaceNovice*

          Oh, good! At least it’s not 67F like it was in my last place… Man, that sucked. I wasn’t allowed to have a heater despite it being an allowable accommodation in the handbook, but my next workplace had no trouble with it, and now I’m fine.

          Oh yeah, hibernation is what happens to me, too. 77F used to be my ideal temperature until I got my thyroid properly treated and now it’s more like 74F. (An offside: TSH should be 0.5-2.0 if you did end up getting tested; a lot of doctors use the old ranges of 0.5-5.0 or 0.5-10!)

          1. Jen RO*

            I got curious and I checked my old results. I don’t really understand what this means, but my TSH was
            2,54 and the acceptable range was listed as 0.27 – 4.2.

            I would not be able to function at 67F. That sounds like a nightmare. That’s the temperature my father-in-law usually has in his house and I can never last through a lunch without freezing!

      3. Not So NewReader*

        Totally agreeing with you SpaceNovice. I would go as far as saying a health person who is exposed to prolonged cold can become an unhealthy person.

        I like the idea of an air purifier right by her desk.

        I have thrown out air conditioners because they smell funny but the repair person could not find anything wrong. What struck me with those two air conditioners is that the funny smell had not happened before and I have not had another instance with different ACs.

        My boss and I have that hot/cold argument. Well, we don’t argue in the traditional sense we just say we are feeling the opposite of the other one. Our solution is I get to run a heater while the AC is on for her. Sometimes she will use a fan instead of the AC and I use the heater next to me. Sometimes my boss will notice in the middle of the day that she does not need the AC and she will turn it off for me.

        Last thing. Wood chairs. Not many offices have chairs with wood seats any more, so maybe this does not apply. But wood can get cold and stay cold. I tend to run cool myself and I have noticed the wood chairs are cold and sometimes I have muscle pain because of the coldness.

        Before I got my house better insulated, winters were very long and very cold. When it went down below freezing outside my kitchen would go to 55 degrees and stay there. I never got warm. By summer an 85-90 degree day was pure delight. I could be your employee, I really could.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Long exposure to cold can DEFINITELY make someone sick, yeah. There’s some studies related to that. But if someone has an underlying health condition, it could make it much, much worse.

          The heater/AC compromise is a good one! I like it.

          Wood chairs suck; agreed. And insulation is wonderful. (We should start a company together, obviously!)

      4. Rusty Shackelford*

        There’s a big difference between cold temperatures can exacerbate symptoms in someone who has an underlying condition and being cold makes you sick.

        1. misspiggy*

          True, but if you are that someone (especially if your underlying condition hasn’t yet been diagnosed, which can take years) it’s not unreasonable to want to escape the AC. Alison would probably advise looking at it from the business angle – how much WFH can be offered simply because it’s an employee preference? If an employee might produce better work from home because they feel less dreadful, would a pilot be worth trying?

          1. SpaceNovice*

            And women’s conditions in general have a FAR HIGHER chance of not being diagnosed. It’s common enough for doctors to discount women’s pain, discomfort, and symptoms for years. My condition got diagnosed immediately when I went to my doctor because she isn’t one of the ones that do that. Another doctor, even with blood test results that said what my exact problem was, completely disregarded what I had gone to her for and just talked over me.

            People don’t respond to cold that severely unless there’s something else going on, generally.

        2. SpaceNovice*

          Oh yeah, definitely. That’s why I’m saying she might have an underlying health condition that’s undiagnosed.

  75. Enough_Detail_to_be_Identifiable?*

    Too late to start again?
    I’m 20 years into a “career” that has always been tangentially linked to Accounting, and I hate it. I have *never* wanted to be an accountant, and it has always been when my job role has veered away from the data and towards invoices/finance that I get a desperate need to bail.
    All my “qualifications” and experience is in administration, and (if I’m not able to get out quick enough) in billing, but my interests lie elsewhere.
    I’ve been learning Python and SQL (I’ve tried R and maybe the instructor was a bit dry, but I just couldn’t follow it), but at such entry level (limited time & resources – I’ve been limited to free/on offer online courses, which I try to complete in my (constantly interrupted) lunchtimes and in the evenings) that I’m wondering if I should continue with a view of taking it more seriously, or just as a side interest hobby. I’m nearly 40, surely it’s too late to try and get qualified so I can jump into a new career.
    I am so desperately unhappy at my current company that I’m looking outside, but with my limited experience/qualifications, I’m stuck looking at Admin/Entry level Accounts roles and I’m never going to progress to a decent salary in these positions without actually becoming an accountant.
    I honestly don’t know if I have a question, or if I’m just seeking validation. It doesn’t help that jobs in my geographical area are fairly limited, and relocating is not an option.

    1. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

      One of my close relatives quit an executive-level position with a large company so that she could get a professional degree in the field in which she truly wanted to work. She was 45. Most of her classmates were in their early 20s.

      She is now 60 and received this year’s national award for achievement in her ‘second’/’new’ career (I’m so proud of her).

      I don’t think ‘nearly 40’ is too late to do anything, including getting more education in the field that interests you most. If at all possible, get into that field and get a career that makes work worth working.

    2. Honor Harrington*

      At age 40, you could have another 30 years of working. You have plenty of time to switch.

      If you add knowledge of IT, data and financial systems, you will have a lot of options. Every medium to large sized company have to have IT people who support their financial systems like SAP. Many need MIS teams to support special reporting.

    3. periwinkle*

      If you want to make a career move, get serious about getting the necessary experience and education. If you want to get into coding, take some online courses and practice a lot. Contribute to open source projects. Put your stuff on GitHub. If you’re not thinking in that direction, figure out where your interest lies and start moving. If you’re good with the quantitative stuff and want to play with data, the field revolving around data science is huge and there just aren’t enough people who have the skills. A number of universities offer graduate certificates in different areas of data science, from the hardcore computer science side to the business application of data.

      As for age, nah, it’s NOT too late. Before I finished my bachelors, my experience was all administrative and low-level IT – definitely not where my interests were. I finally went back and completed the B.S. at age 44, earned my M.Sc. and moved into a new field at 47, and am happily established in this field (with lots of room for learning and career growth) at age 53. You have time!

      1. Enough_Detail_to_be_Identifiable?*

        Awesome, that’s quite motivational! Thanks! I’m thinking over the weekend of getting my ducks in order (little buggers do keep wandering off and getting lost!) and consolidating the different online courses I’ve added to my wishlist into a proper training plan. (I think I’ve “saved” three almost identical DAX courses, in addition to the SQL and Python ones!)

        1. Windchime*

          If you’re really interested in learning R, check out the Coursera class by Johns Hopkins. I started it but was unable to finish for personal reasons, but it’s a well-respected course and is a good introduction to R.

          Also–I changed careers from medical billing to programming when I was 39. I’m now in my mid-50’s and still loving what I do, so it’s definitely not too late for you to make a change.

      2. TootsNYC*

        People can learn how to code in Python in several months. That would make you 41.

        And you’ll have a bit of an edge over those kids coming out of college, because you’ll know how business works. And what the user needs

    4. N Twello*

      That’s great! I re-evaluated my life at age 39 and switched careers. I’m retired now and I’m so glad that I did it. In your case, you should also keep in mind that accounting jobs are in the process of being automated (try googling: ai accounting) so it’s not the best profession to be in right now.

      It sounds like you’re making a good start with courses. Make sure you also study the fundamentals of computer science.

      In lieu of a CS diploma/degree, you need some real world coding experience to get a good job. Perhaps you could find volunteer work with a non-profit: as an Excel database programmer, or a web developer? Join a local coding group and participate in some hackathons. (Don’t worry if you’re not very good at first: it will be a great learning experience and look good on your CV.)

      You might be able to leverage your experience in your new career. Apply for jobs that create accounting software, for example.

      Good luck! I don’t think you’ll find this as difficult as you expect.

    5. SpaceNovice*

      It really depends on where you’re located for entry level coding–age discrimination DOES happen. But there are places that will hire you despite your age for an entry level coder, especially if you can tie it into what you’ve done already.

      For picking what languages to code: look up “software engineer” and “developer” on local job boards to see what shows up. Look in local tech websites/magazines/blogs. No matter what, you’re going to want to know SQL, so at least there’s that. Python is pretty popular, too. Set aside time at home that isn’t interrupted daily to work on that stuff.

      You can learn one of three ways: free websites, sites where you can buy cheap courses (Udemy during sales for example), or boot camps (but quality of boot camps can vary). When you know enough, you should get a couple of certifications in whatever languages you focused in as proof you can do it.

      Also: consider data science and data analytics. That area is getting more important and they need bodies. Python and SQL are actually pretty good for that, I think? Some places will allow you to work remotely.

    6. theletter*

      My mom went from a computer science career to bio-statistics in her 40’s, and she’s pretty happy.

      between accounting and some database management skills, you may be able to find something like project management or product management that might make you more happy. You should reach out to some recruiters, describe your skills and interests, and see what they have that might interest you.

    7. KX*

      I am 45 and I am on my third career change. I got a new professional certification last year. It’s lateral moves into new industries that have really expanded my options.

      If you are interested in Python and SQL and you really like it, why not study it more seriously? It might end up taking you to an entry level position for a while, but it wouldn’t be Entry Level Something You Already Hate.

    8. ..Kat..*

      I was in my 30s when I changed careers. I quit my computer programmer job to go back to college to become a registered nurse. And, FWIW, RNs at the time made less than 30% of what computer programmers made at the time. I made sure that I could live on a nurse’s pay (I could), and went for it. While computer programming can be a good job, it just was not for me. I am really glad that I took the leap and went for it. I discovered my true calling. Good luck finding a better job fit for you.

  76. Just anon*

    A person where I work, who I only knew in passing, was killed this week nearby in a hit and run. I often frequent where she was at the time and I must have been there very shortly before it happened. I keep thinking how if I’d been there, maybe I could have warned her or called for help and maybe she could have gotten medical attention in time. I did not really know her, but I feel really sad.

    1. Tuxedo Cat*

      I’m really sorry you’re going through that. It’s hard to turn off those thoughts, but you couldn’t have prevented it at all even if you had been there.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      That’s so awful–my condolences. Our brains always tell us we could have done something differently, even though we couldn’t have known. You are a good person.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yep, this.
        I believe that wanting so much to have helped counts. It’s on a par with actually helping, that is how powerful it is.

    3. Anonymous Ampersand*

      I’m so sorry, that must be a horrible thing to deal with. I’ll keep you and her in my thoughts.

  77. What's with today, today?*

    I work in a small family owned business with less than 10 full-time employees. Our boss is remote most of the time. Only three of us are women. The other two women, both in their 60s & have known each other forever, have gotten to BEC stage with each other. One is in sales and the other is the office manager, and the sales lady really oversteps her bounds and tries to take over parts of the OM’s job, usually fouls it up, and then gets snippy.(the saleslady makes us all crazy, but the Office Manager is about to snap). My boss isn’t in to see this often, and when it’s been brought to his attention, he’s basically like “we are all adults here, and should act like adults.” He really hates this kind of conflict. I have no questions to ask, but maybe someone can commiserate?

    1. Ann Furthermore*

      Oh, I can sympathize. I used to supervise two women who were about that age. They were the AP specialists. One of them was an extremely devout Christian and very, very conservative. She was convinced that the world was going to hell in a handbasket, and it was because of things like alcohol, drugs, loose women, people having children out of wedlock, Democrats, and people with tattoos, just to name a few.

      The other woman is someone who I’m pretty sure was quite the hippie free spirit back in the 60’s and 70’s. (She once told me a story about a roommate who was dating someone who was not the sharpest knife in the drawer. They’d all been out drinking the night before, and the next morning, he was in pretty bad shape. They told him to get some Alka-Seltzer from the kitchen and that would make him feel better. A few minutes later, he emerged from the kitchen, foaming at the mouth, because he didn’t know that you were supposed to dissolve the tablet in water.) She came to work one Monday morning with a tattoo, and the other woman was completely scandalized.

      The more laid-back woman told me that it was frustrating because everyone assumed that because she and her co-worker were the same age, they were best friends. She in fact despised her co-worker because she thought she was a mean, nasty, horrible old battle-ax of a woman, and she wasn’t wrong.

    2. rldk*

      Have you used the tried-and-tested Alison method of presenting it as a work issue? As in, “Because of Incident A or B between OM and SL, I have not been able to perform X&Y tasks, and Z has been severely delayed. Given that this has been ongoing for x months/years and not likely to end, how do you want me to proceed?”
      If boss can’t pretend it’s just a personality clash, not a work issue, he may be more easily pushed into actually doing something.

  78. socrescentfresh*

    If you’ve ever quit a job, how did you go about it? My husband plans to resign in the next couple months because we’re moving out of the area, and he’s not sure how. His last few jobs ended with either “mutual separation” or the end of a contract, so he hasn’t actually quit anything in 10+ years. He keeps saying “how do other people do this?” (I’ve only quit one job and I botched it, so I’m no help.) I figured I’d crowdsource the question to AAM: how DO other people quit their jobs?

    Context: he has a good relationship with his boss, hates confrontation, and has a hard deadline for when he has to be outta there.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      He only needs to give two weeks’ notice. If he wants to give longer, he can, just be prepared to be asked to leave sooner than he’d like. So I would wait. Then, it’s very simple: ask for 10 minutes with the boss (or set up a meeting if that’s how his office does things), say, “I wanted to let you know that I’m leaving because we’re moving out of the area. I’d like my last day to be ____.” It’s much simpler than he thinks! The fact that you’re moving makes it a much easier conversation.

    2. Chameleon*

      As early as he feels comfortable (at least two weeks, but if he likes his boss and the boss is reasonable, he may want to give 3-4 weeks instead), go to his boss and say, “hey, I am going to be moving out of town on X date, so I have to give my notice. I’ve really enjoyed working here and hope to keep in touch!”

      Any reasonable boss shouldn’t have any problem whatsoever with this wording. Any unreasonable boss may have issues but would have issues with literally anything, so whatever.

    3. TGIF*

      I recently gave my boss a heads up that I am moving out of state this summer. It was during my annual review. It’s several weeks away, but I will be leaving right before the end of the fiscal year. There is also another vacant position in our department that slightly overlaps with what I do. So it seemed appropriate to give more notice than might normally be necessary. I felt uncomfortable bringing it up, but people leave jobs all the time so it’s not like the rarest most awkward thing to have to bring up. If you can frame it in a neutral way (We are moving) rather than a negative (I hate it here) that helps.

    4. ABK*

      1. Decide the day you will resign and when your last day will be. Probably 2 or 3 weeks notice is plenty. 2. Make an appointment with boss for resignation day. 3. Go to appt, explain that you have been really happy with your job, enjoyed working there, etc., but it is time to move on. Say when your last day will be. Ask if boss needs written letter. 4. Write letter (1-2 paragraphs is fine). Probably make follow up meeting to discuss wrapping up any projects, handing off duties, etc. That’s it!

    5. Triple Anon*

      1) Write a letter of resignation using your company email address and BCC a personal email address so you’ll always have a copy. It should be written kind of like a thank you letter – concise and showing a lot of grattitude for things you gained from working there (skills, promotions, great co-workers – anything worth mentioning) and include relevant dates. Save it as a draft. Don’t hit send!

      2) Schedule an in-person meeting with your boss or a phone meeting if they’re remote.

      3) In the meeting, tell them you’re leaving and thank them for anything you want to thank them for. Make the tone warm and positive, but it’s ok if you also show that you’re a little sad to be leaving. Then agree on the dates and any other relevant details. Tell them you’ll follow up with an official resignation letter.

      4) Immediately after that meeting, open your draft email and ammend it so it’s a logical follow up to the meeting. Include all of the logistical things agreed upon. (“My last day will be Friday, June 10th. I will spend my last week training Sarah to cover for me.”) Then send it.

      5) All done! Celebrate!

    6. Librarygal30*

      I got my formal written offer for CurrentJob, then turned in my resignation later that same day. No drama, no fuss. Job ended on a Friday, and I started the new one the following Monday.

    7. ..Kat..*

      “I have really enjoyed this job and working for you. (Give examples). Unfortunately, I need to move to X. Thank you for the wonderful opportunities that you have provided me as my manager.” My last day will be X. What can I do to smooth the transition to my successor?”

  79. RoutineJobHunter*

    I need to find a new job. My work is 100% project based (without me learning any new skills), and honestly, I’m over it. I’d like a job that’s a little more routine with the occasional project, and room to develop.

    I’m currently a data analyst who focuses on visualizations and simple reports…I’m like a really good Tableau user, to put it in simpler terms. I don’t know SQL. Any thoughts on what I could look for as my next role?

    1. SpaceNovice*

      SQL isn’t too terribly hard to pick up and there’s a lot of tutorials online. Things like SQLite and DB Browser for SQLite can get you messing around with tiny databases on your own computer rather quickly.

      You can also look more into data analytics/business intelligence/business analyst. You’re probably looking for something that provides/refines important reports used by people daily. Maybe Crystal Reports as well. There’s also people that do things like search for donors for colleges from databases and data. You’d have to do some research into the field, because I don’t know it well enough. Go look at what’s going on in those fields and read some articles and see what gets your interest.

    2. data monkey*

      I’m a data analyst too! Are you looking for a more routine yet challenging data analysis role, or for something less related?

      For my recent search I used Linked-In’s job search engine, specified the area and used the keyword ‘Tableau’. It was a way better filter than ‘analyst’ and returned mostly data analytics roles, along with some other surprising roles that also involved data viz. Definitely pickup some SQL if you can – it’s not to hard, and is in high demand!

  80. Anon Accountant*

    I got a new job and start Monday!! Thank you to all for the amazing support and help. My new job is a 30% pay increase, full benefits at zero cost, only 30 minutes on main highways, and full time at 37 hours per week. It’s a county government job.

    My bosses hadn’t paid our money withheld for the 401k in 6+ months, dropped insurance 3 years ago and things got worse.

    Plus 1 boss was shady and his partners did nothing to help staff. Can’t wait to put that chapter all behind. Thank you all so much for the great help!

  81. quiet anon*

    Is there a secret to working in an office place where it’s either all women or all men? I used to work in a male-dominated field, but now I work in an office with all women and it’s… a little different. (I’m female, but quiet/introverted, so I feel like an oddball.) The women can be pleasant and social, but I don’t have any friends to talk to.

    1. SoCalHR*

      I’ve worked in both (as a female), good luck with the female-office and beware of cattiness/mean girls.

      1. Washi*

        I’m a quiet woman and I’ve pretty much only ever worked with women and never had a problem with cattiness! I really like working with mainly women because I don’t worry about them stereotyping me.

        I wonder if you’re just experiencing the normal transition of not knowing anyone at a new office? How does it feel different?

        1. quiet anon*

          It’s really clique-y. I was told not to go to a meeting because it didn’t apply to me, but my co-worker went because her friend was conducting the meeting! (My co-worker didn’t need to be there! She only went because her friend told her to go- which she later admitted.) I try and talk to the woman near me, but she only talks to me if I initiate the conversation, otherwise she will literally talk to EVERYONE around me. My first week I ate lunch with them and by the second week, they would either leave the lunch table or say they had meetings and I saw them walking outside going out to eat.

          1. SoCalHR*

            ugh, I felt a little bad about stereotyping my own gender, but it sounds like it was a correct assumption :-(

          2. Courageous cat*

            I’m dealing with the same thing in an all-woman environment, although I know it can happen with men too. Coworkers who are insanely friendly with everyone but unbearably neutral towards me. Coworkers who will get food for everyone and go around asking everyone what they want and just… not ask me. It’s really uncomfortable and not a good energy, so I’m looking to get out ASAP.

      2. Environmental Compliance*

        I’ve also done both as an introverted, quiet female and didn’t enjoy certain members of the 99% female office. Those certain members will be quite obvious.

        Then again, I’ve always gotten along better with male bosses than female bosses, as I’ve had all my male bosses work with me to get promotions/raises/better projects, and I’ve had a couple female bosses flat out tell me that they think I’m threatening to their job. So that’s…something, I guess.

        The biggest problem in my last office was that while I got along with nearly everyone there, the loudest woman I couldn’t get along with. We had nothing in common. All she wanted to talk about were politics that leaned too far for me, babies, pregnancy, and how awful all men are. Gets old real quick.

        But it does usually take a while to get back into an office group if you’re the newbie, so this really might just be time-dependent for you.

          2. A Nickname for AAM*

            Honestly, I think this is a good barometer for who’s going to be trouble down the line. I’ve noticed that the kind of people who go around looking for reasons to dislike someone, ex: lashing out or freezing out someone for not being how THEY want you to be (be it age, race, gender, personality, skill set, hobbies,) are usually the kind of colleagues who cause trouble for you down the line. It’s best that they’re letting themselves be known now, so you know to develop your professional connections elsewhere and give them a wide berth so their toxic behavior doesn’t land back on you.

  82. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    For the first time ever (I’m 39), I had food stolen from the office fridge. I was surprised at how hurt I felt. Someone just… took my guacamole? They thought they should get to eat it instead of me? :(

    1. Amber Rose*

      My turkey sandwich disappeared from the fridge last summer and I was also surprised at how upset I was. It’s kind of a betrayal of trust after all.

    2. Fergus*

      I thought it tasted good. When are you bringing it in again? I want to take it home to share with the rest of my family.

    3. ..Kat..*

      I’m sorry. For years I had someone at my work place who would get rid of my food (I don’t know whether this person was eating my food or just throwing it away). It was very frustrating for me. Are you labeling your food with your name and date of bringing it in? If so, can you use a cooler with ice packs instead? I am sorry you have to deal with this.

  83. A Person*

    I put in my two weeks notice today, on my supervisor’s last day. Probably not how he wanted his last day to go, but why wait?

      2. A Person*

        Actually he’s on a mission to transition all my projects too now that I’ve put in my notice.

        Maybe this is giving him something to do on his last day and it’s a good thing?

  84. Fergus*

    I had a recruiter contact me for a job. I asked what the salary range for the position was. He said they have budgeted for the position but they didn’t tell him it. I said when you find out let me know and hung up. What a maroon.

  85. Laura in NJ*

    I am done with this place. The only people who seem to get any kind of help here are ones who are employed (otherwise known as those who weren’t affected by the recession) and the rest of us who are still struggling with job searching are ignored. I’ve begged and pleaded for help here for months only to be ignored or given rather questionable advice. So I will delete this place from my bookmarks and pretend I was never here.

    Thanks for nothing

    1. Tuxedo Cat*

      :( I’ve been underemployed since November, if I count in your group of people struggling with job searches.

      I understand your frustration but I’m not sure what anyone can do here for me or you. It sucks.

    3. Lindsay J*

      There is a giant guide to job searching on the upper right hand corner of the page. There are tons of archives about job searching covering tons of topics. If it’s just general job searching stuff, going through all of that is a good start.

      I don’t see any posts by this user name in last week’s open thread, so it’s not like your posts were ignored (and if they were under a different username, perhaps you posted too late, or people just plain didn’t have any answers to questions you have, or you were posting questions on posts where the comments are meant to be dealing with the situations in the main post). Maybe if you had posted asking your questions again you might have gotten help this time if it was just a timing issue or whatever.

      And regardless, neither Allison nor anyone on this site owes you anything, including answers to your questions. It’s an advice blog. If you need targeted help with your search, seek out and pay someone to do that. The people here are doing it because they enjoy it, and are answering questions that are interesting to them, or that they have personal experience in, or whatever. And that’s their prerogative.

      But if your attitude comes across in your requests for help and in your job search like it does here, then I’m not surprised you’re not finding much success.

      Also, don’t assume that those of us who are now employed weren’t affected by the recession (which officially ended in 2009 by the way). I, along with all of my classmates, graduated right into it, and struggled mightily because of it. My first decade of post-college employment was definitely negatively affected by it. It was only in the past couple years where I got jobs making above the poverty line. And I know I’m not the only one here in that situation.

    4. rldk*

      Entitlement like this generally comes off badly in a job hunt, just a thought. Hopefully you’re note quite so bitter during interviews.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I used the site search and maybe I am looking at this wrong but I only see two posts from you. Neither post has a question in it. Perhaps you used a different name?

      I will say it’s difficult to get questionable advice here, because someone usually calls that person out on their advice. But some late posts might not get noticed, so there is that.

      Many folks just read Alison’s advice and skip the comments. I hope you reconsider at some point because Alison has some of the best work advice going. She has helped many people, I am sure she could help you somehow also.

      1. Anonymous Ampersand*

        I found a few questions where I thought she’d got reasonable advice and support but had never come back to engage with it, which IMO is best way to get decent value from this site’s open threads.s.

  86. Plus C'est La Même Chose*

    Where I work has a lot of systemic problems. At one point, I was involved really heavily in a project where I had one main responsibility (design of testing for materials we use in our teapots). This was a new line of teapots, so there were a lot of new materials that we had not previously used. However, our procurement department basically said “We won’t do any buying of materials until we launch” even though we needed the material in-house before launch and some of it has very long lead times (e.g. 3 months). Our shared grand-grand boss backed them up, so all of the purchasing, inventory, inspection, and pre-processing responsibilities fell to me (so literally they asked a single person to do the work of 3 different departments which contain about 10 people). My boss’s response was “delegate” but when I tried to, the response was “No, we’re not doing that.” Our launch date was set in stone, and I figured that we could launch without qualification procedures (using pre-launch data to qualify material used in pre-launch test runs), but we couldn’t launch without material in-house, so I spent months doing all that work without the proper tools or training. The whole thing was a mess and I was working 18 hour days and at one point worked for 19 days straight without a day off (I’m exempt, so I don’t think this broke any laws, but I also was doing work that a lot of non-exempt people do, so it still pissed me off on some level). I repeatedly brought this up as a problem (both that it was too much work for any one person and that it was keeping me from my primary responsibilities and that the work wasn’t being handled through the correct channels), but I was ignored.
    Also, the development work I was trying to do in addition to all the other work that had been dumped on me was further stymied by the fact that I was given the lowest priority for equipment necessary to do my job. I kept getting told “you can’t use it because [other group needs it more]” which led to a lot of frustration.
    What I didn’t know is that I have bipolar 2 disorder, so part of the reason I was able to get so much work done was that I was in a hypomanic state. So two weeks before launch, I had a complete breakdown, was ordered by my grand-boss to go to the doctor, who immediately placed me on medical leave. I went on short-term disability for 4 weeks, missed the launch, etc. etc.
    I’m now back at work (with medication and therapy on-going to help me cope with my new diagnosis). According to my boss, I saved our asses by making sure we had material in for launch, but I still didn’t handle it well and still should have found a way to get the development work done because that was “my real job”.
    I’m trying to get back into the swing of work, but I have found that people are ignoring my suggestions in meetings, talking over me and not listening when I’m explaining things, not doing things they promised me they would, and just generally acting like my professional opinions and experiences are worthless. I’ve had a lot of development responsibilities taken away and reassigned to “people more suited to the job”. I feel like I’ve destroyed my professional credibility.
    Is there anything I can do here to rebuild? Or am I just screwed here? My industry is really incestuous and small so I’m afraid that I won’t be able to “just find another job”.

    1. Reba*

      Not sure from your post how long you’ve been back at work. Or how much of a debrief you’ve had with your boss, and whether Boss was reasonable about the equipment issue that impeded what you “should” have done.

      But my gut feeling is that you might want to let the dust settle a little longer before you conclude screwed/not screwed there. With more information, you’ll have more to refer to when you next check in with your boss. You will be able to have a conversation like, “I’m getting the sense that people I need things from don’t take my requests seriously, like on X date with Thing Project. How can I and other team members get back into collaborating well?” Rather than an emotion-driven, anxious conversation like “does everyone here know my history and hate me.” Good luck! Glad you are getting treatment and I hope it’s helping.

    2. Lindsay J*

      No advice, just that I hope you know that your company sounds completely unreasonable, and that it sounds like you did the best you possible could have under the circumstances.

      I don’t know that you can rebuild just because there isn’t anything you should have to rebuild under the circumstances.

      You tried to do things the right way, your company said “no, we’re not doing that”, proceeded to work you to unhealthy levels, and then punish you for not being able to do superhuman levels of work. It’s not you, it’s them.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Working conditions like this would break almost anyone. This place is off their collective rocker. They don’t deserve you.

      Sometimes these stories pan out that everyone in the industry knows Teapot Place is at best unrealistic and probably chaotic, poorly managed, lots of infighting and a host of other problems. The trick here is that a competitor might hire you in a heart beat. It’s hard to know what others say about our companies behind our backs.

      It seems to me that you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying to apply else where.

      FWIW, you have not destroyed your professional cred. They tried to destroy your life and do not have much gratitude for how much help you gave them. What is really rattling my cage is that they created the problem themselves!

      It’s okay to be afraid about not finding another job. It’s not okay to allow that fear to stop us. If you don’t start now you will have to start later. It does not look like later will be better. Build Team You, thinking people you can count on to say supportive things and make good, practical suggestions. Get that positive going on in your life, this can be just 2-3 people. Then go for it. You deserve better than this.

      PS. If they have not cut your pay don’t worry about what they take away from you. Tell yourself “no more 19 hour days.”

    4. sheep jump death match*

      “According to my boss, I saved our asses by making sure we had material in for launch, but I still didn’t handle it well and still should have found a way to get the development work done because that was “my real job”.”

      So… Their response to the ass-saving work you did over a three-week manic period is, “You really should have gotten more work done”? This sounds like an insane place to work and I would try to find a new job in your shoes. Your health is more important than their profit.

  87. You don't know me*

    Looking for info/advice about the CPA exam. I’m thinking about giving it a go but I’m 45 and graduated with my bachelors in accounting 12 years ago. I have never actually worked as an accountant though. I spent 10 years in the finance industry processing trade instructions and now I’m a payroll clerk. I know it will be a long and difficult road but is it worth it? I’m not doing anything else productive with my time.

    How many years of study am I looking at? How much does it cost to actually take the exam?

    1. Emmie*

      I cannot speak to the CPA exam, but time passes no matter what. You might as well do something with that time that you’re passionate about. I like how it furthers your skills. Good luck!

    2. Boredatwork*

      TLDR: you basically need a masters degree, $5,000 and committing to studying 20 hours a week for a few months.

      I can help! First, all states now require that you have 150 credit hours to be licensed. Some have different types of classes you’ll need to have taken. This site is a very useful resource.

      https://www.aicpa.org/becomeacpa/licensure.html

      Next time, is to study for the exam. The exams themselves are not difficult. They require a huge time investment into studying and the ability to memorize massive amounts of information. I used Becker, it’s expensive, but I passed all 4 parts above an 85 on the first try.

      The exams themselves are expensive, assuming you can pass on the first try you’re looking at $1500.

      That said, most quality accounting jobs will require you to be a CPA and those three little letters will greatly improve your earning potential.

  88. Peaches*

    I took a promotion about a year ago, but I regret it and want to do something else.

    I used to work in customer service/AP at my company. I excelled in that position, and really enjoyed it. About a year ago, I was offered a promotion to a Sales Support position, working with an online program our IT department created called “Teapot Analysis Program” (TAP for short). My boss, who has since left the company, made the job sound great, and described TAP as this “great tool” for our customers. The promotion came with a good raise, so I took it. Here’s the problem – TAP downright sucks. The program is good in theory, but absolutely terrible in execution. It’s extremely NOT user friendly, has hundreds of glitches, and is extremely slow (the program itself – not the internet). It’s a headache every day trying to work with it, and tasks that should take an hour, take 5 days because of the lack of user friendliness, constant site errors, and speed of the program. When I put in tickets to our Help Desk, I’m told that the issue (yes, every single issue I’ve reported), will be put on a TWO YEAR waiting list because it’s “not priority”. I’ve voiced my concern to my current boss, but he doesn’t work in the program often, and doesn’t understand the severity of the issues. I cannot sustain being in this position with no sign of improvements being made to TAP.

    I would give anything to go back to my old job, but that position has long been filled. My boss is constantly telling me how valuable I am, and has given me excellent reviews in the evaluations I’ve had with him. He says I’m his go-to person, and the “poster child” for an excellent employee. So, I know he values me.

    I’d like to go to him and explain that this position is not something I can do long-term for all the reasons listed above. I think he’d still find a way to keep me here in some other capacity because he values me so much, but what if he doesn’t? Is it worth basically telling him I’m not interested in being in this role for much longer with the chance that he’ll tell me I’m not needed? There are several areas within our company that I think I could be very useful in. However, right now there aren’t technically any other “open” roles.

    My husband has a great, high paying job, so I would even be willing to work for a lower salary in order to do something I like. My boss already uses me for things outside of my job description (event planning, meeting planning, making presentations, etc.) that I would love to take on full time. If he doesn’t think those things would be a full time role, I’d be willing to work less hours for less pay. I’d also be willing to train a new person in my role, and stay in my role until someone else is hired on.

    What are all your thoughts on this?!

    1. foolofgrace*

      I dunno, sounds like you might have run your course there. I’d be looking for a new job on the down-low. Life is too short to be so miserable. Sorry I don’t have better advice, I’m sure others here will.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      It seems like unless you can make the boss understand the severity of the problem then your other choice is to move on.
      When I start thinking about this as my bottom line, it becomes easier to give it one last chance. You could make a list of the problems, better yet you could build a daily journal. Since these issues involve customers you could quote the customers. Sometimes deaf bosses will hear customers long before they hear their own employees.
      Be sure to talk about the wait times, like you did here.

      Don’t threaten to quit. Don’t mention quitting.This has nothing to do with quitting as far as your boss is concerned. All you do is tell the boss “there is a huge problem here” and you do that by showing daily examples.
      See what he says. IF he still blows you off then that is your answer, unfortunately.

    3. Jessi*

      Yes, try to talk to your boss, and try to explain that you can’t stay in the position long term. I would also go looking for another position like the one you had pre-promotion

  89. Super stressed*

    I got asked to do a writing test for a project management/communications type job I applied to! I don’t know what the test will be on, I just know that it’s timed. Any tips?? What do hiring managers look for (besides the basics like grammar)?

    1. A Person*

      For the job I was recently offered after completing a writing test and interviewing, they told me they appreciated that I followed the directions given for the writing sample.

      Also the writing sample involved an industry specific term that had multiple meanings. I understood what they were asking for based on context but some other candidates did not and wrote about the wrong subject.

      Short answer: reading and comprehension were important in that writing exercise.

    2. I Like Lamp*

      Whatever else you do, follow the instructions to the letter. I give a writing assignment for the position I manage and people who fail to follow the clear, three-step instructions are a huge red flag for me.

    3. KX*

      I am a good writer. A very good writer, even. But there was a writing sample I did that I read over and over again and then rewrote and tinkered with and by the time I submitted it I couldn’t fully perceive it anymore. A few weeks later I went back to it and found shocking and upsetting errors from bad copy/pastes or changes of phrase. I even spelled a name wrong. I am still sick about it.

      Write a draft, read it, revise it, read it aloud (or as close to aloud as you can depending on your environment), only fix errors, and then stop fussing over it.

  90. Chameleon*

    Two things that aren’t questions, just general work-related
    1) Rant about academic hiring timelines. I applied for a full-time tenure track position on March 5. On the 21st I was offered an interview, which I gave on April 9. *Maybe* next week I will hear back…whether I make the second round of interviews that will be held in mid-late May, with a final decision to be made theoretically sometime in June but which last time I applied did not actually happen until August. Sigh. And this is not for an R1 school or anything, it’s a community college! Sadly, this is actually a pretty normal timeline.

    2)I was all set to come here with a question about how to approach the fact that our Facilities had not fixed the toilet in the disabled stall of the women’s restroom for OVER NINE MONTHS with the excuse that “alternate facilities are available on the first floor, accessible by elevator.” But then yesterday I walked in the restroom and it’s finally fixed!

  91. Sloan Kittering*

    I’m really on the fence about taking what is probably more of a lateral job offer. I’ve been trying to claw my way up to Director level this job search, but this potential offer isn’t that. Raise wise, it’s more like a bump of about 5K in salary, not a lifechanging amount for me.

    Reasons I would consider taking it are: 1) I’m pretty bored at my current job, 2) I’ve been looking for almost a year for a mythical much-better offer, and at this point I might have to resign myself that I can’t get up a level yet. It’s going to come down to 1) how much time can I take off before I have to start this new job, because for a month off it might be worth it, and 2) how much does the opportunity to work from home more often, matter to me.

    I just can’t decide what to do.

    1. Oxford Coma*

      If you’ve been in your current position a good amount of time for your field and you can see yourself hanging on to the new position for a similarly-appropriate length of time, then I would take it. Once you’re ready to continue your director-level search, it would probably be easier to tailor the new job’s description to show upward momentum/growth than it would be to show similar growth in your currently stagnant position. Plus, a bit more WFH time will make the pay bump technically more than 5K, once you factor in the cost savings.

  92. HR Recruiter*

    For those of you that have employees who are frequently out of the office how do you communicate this? Our sales team is frequently working offsite and they don’t communicate it. It’s a real hassle because we will be looking for the person and then find out they are no longer onsite. In previous jobs I’ve always used Outlook shared calendars but I don’t think they use their calendars here. We tried asking them to email or text the team but they don’t. So now we are putting a formal policy in place.

    1. Almost Violet Miller*

      We have to e-mail the office manager until every Thursday with out plans for the next week. She puts it into one table in the body of an e-mail and circulates it among managers.
      It’s not super detailed but gives you a rough idea if the person’s available. Eg. Monday morning office/afternoon travel to UK or Friday home office
      To be honest though we just had a discussion how this system is not working because 1) people don’t answer 2) noone’s actually consulting the e-mail 3) plans always change last minute.
      So I probably answered with what’s NOT working for us.

      1. Bibliovore*

        We use a Google calendar. out of office- available by email. Home office- available by phone and email. Blocked do not schedule. Travel- not available contact Araya.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      I’ve heard of using physical tags that can flip if you’re in or out of the office. And also white boards to say where. If you’re in the field all the time, you might want to implement a white board at the very least that says where people are.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      If it’s going in to a policy, I would suggest enforcing the use of a calendar, whether group or individual. At my previous job, almost everyone used Outlook and we were expected to note WFH or if we were at alternate work sites. It was less clear how far in advance that info was needed – most of the out of office notices with advance warning were business trips or vacations (bigger impacts), but some days I only updated my calendar the day of because plans changed at the last minute and that always seemed okay. Mostly it’s for using to locate someone who isn’t in their seat at the moment.

  93. Regular on a different comp*

    Just a friendly reminder…emails can and will be forwarded!!! :D

    My grandboss is brilliant but clueless sometimes, so when he forwarded my email to reply to someone else, I was a little embarrassed. I just said, “Please see below. Company A again.” I meant it as a reminder for grandboss since we had talked about this company in this situation before, but I feel like it could have easily come across as “Company A again *eye roll*.”

    Not a big deal I guess, he’s definitely done others worse (like when he accidentally forwarded a salary negotiation back and forth email as a way to introduce our new team member). It was more a reminder that he can and he will forward emails at random. Bah!

    1. Peaches*

      Ugh, I have account managers that do the same thing. An account manager and I had an email conversation going with a customer to set up a meeting. The customer asked if 10:00 AM Thursday worked. I responded to JUST the account manager with “Do you want to respond to Mr. Customer, or should I? 10:00 AM works for me, not sure what your schedule looks like.” He replied to MY email and looped the customer back in saying, “10:00 AM works for us!” It wasn’t like I said anything bad about Mr. Customer, I just didn’t see any reason why the account manager wouldn’t have just responded directly to the customer’s inquiry without including my portion.

      1. Regular on a different comp*

        Riiiight! I always think, “Why?!?!” (insert “confused black girl” meme)

  94. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

    Man, I don’t know if it’s the phase of the moon, or if something-or-other’s in retrograde or what, but this week at work has been a nightmare. About five or six high-net-worth clients have been going absolutely bonkers at us, loudly and messily and all over the place, for stuff that’s either a) a fairly routine, easily-fixed, minor issue, or b) their own damn fault. It’s turned our workflow into a nightmare, because it means that everything needs to get bounced back and forth between different departments multiple times, and it’s just exhausting to knock down one angry client communication only to immediately get something else that’s been turned into a Major McFrickin Deal because how dare we imply that Mr. Wannabe High-Flying Day Trader maybe needs to not free-ride himself into oblivion.

    And just to make it more difficult, at least three of these clients are not native English speakers. Normally that’s not even kind of a concern, but when the angry stream-of-consciousness capslock rage is also heavily accented and non-fluent, there’s a whole layer of extra labor involved just trying to discern what they’re even mad about.

    I just keep telling myself this is what we get paid good money to deal with, but OY.

    1. Mockingjay*

      It’s the moon. I had to fly up one day and back the next to soothe the ruffled feathers of my customer because he’s behind on a couple things and got nervous. (His fault, but my problem to fix.) I got in at 2:00 am this morning and have to put in a full day today. Ugh.

  95. Anon for Job Hunting Reasons*

    I got rejected from a job I really wanted this past week. I kind of expected the rejection, but I’m still feeling a bit demotivated. It doesn’t help that I’m looking to relocate to an area where my skills and background are much more niche than where I’m working now, so I’m having a much harder time finding positions to apply to than I would if I was applying where I live now. Commiseration and motivation welcome here!

    1. Fellow Job Hunter*

      I’m in your boat, friend. I also got rejected from my dream job this week. Nailed two rounds of interviews, and even went over-budget on a new pantsuit to look extra sharp, but ultimately there were other candidates who were a better fit. Making matters worse, I turned down a decent offer (but one that I was only feeling lukewarm about) from another company in order to have the opportunity to interview with dream job company. I am currently employed so I’m not financially desperate for a new job, and I figured it was worth the risk to try and get the job I really wanted. However, that doesn’t change the fact that I’m still feeling very let down. Looking forward to relaxing, having some wine, and forgetting about it all this weekend.

      Keep your chin up, and I will too :)

    2. Vesperia*

      I’m here to commiserate! I got a job rejection this week too. I wasn’t ecstatic about it but I am so sick of my current job that I’m really down about having to stay here.

      Good luck! Keep at it and I will too, and hopefully we’ll both have good news in the near future!

    3. anonagain*

      Ugh, I’m so sorry. I also got a rejection letter this week. It was the first time in the course of this search that a company has notified me that they weren’t interested, so that’s something at least!

      I feel so burned out by my current job that it’s really a struggle to keep applying.

  96. Lady Blerd*

    Something, something, office party, something, this is is about as productive as I’ll be today.

  97. Someone else*

    I am concerned I did something that might read as sexist. I’m pretty sure I’m entirely overreacting, but it wasn’t sexist and the concern is mainly about perception, but I’m having trouble not thinking about it so I’m looking for outside confirmation. Or maybe I’m just venting.
    I am working with a client. 90% of my communication is with the PM. Occasionally the PM kicks a question over to Exec. I am a woman. PM is a woman. Exec is a man. PM asked me for an estimate for a new project. Again, most of discussion with her. Very last communication was her asking Exec to confirm a thing I’d asked. He did. I sent the estimate. The estimate is addressed to him, because in our system he is listed as the Business Contact for the client. So even though I know what I did was correct, because he is the business contact, I still feel weird, like to an outsider it might read like “why didn’t I send it to the person who actually requested it?” Even though logically I know, there’s a good reason: she’s the PM, she’s requesting it on behalf of the entire company, not herself, and the business contact for the entire company is the Exec. So it’s a totally reasonable sequence. And yet I feel awkward. I can’t put my finger on why.

    1. The Ginger Ginger*

      I think you’re overthinking this. As an exec he may be the one with final sign off on the estimate anyway, so it would probably need to get in front of him anyway. And if you followed your company’s policy of sending to the business contact in the system, then you didn’t do anything wrong.

      That said I would follow up with the PM in a separate email with something like:
      “Hey PM, I sent over the estimate per your request. The email went to Exec as primary contact in our tracking software. So if he’s swamped and doesn’t forward that on, maybe reach out to him. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to reach out to me. I’m looking forward to working on this with you.”

      That way she knows you sent over what she asked for, and you can drop in on the sly the reason it went out to Exec instead. It also closes the loop on her request so it doesn’t look like you ignored the request or something.

      1. Someone else*

        Oh I absolutely know I’m overthinking it. Just to clarify: they’re both on the email. She has it/saw it. It’s the attachment that is the formal quote that’s addressed to him, as you said, because we assume he’s the one who has to sign it. I know in my brain I didn’t do anything wrong, but it still feels sort of squishy.

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          Ohhhh! Then you are definitely fine. It makes sense to address the attachment to him if he’s the one who has to sign it. I wouldn’t worry about this at all.

  98. I'm A Little TeaPot*

    I posted last week, but small update. I’ve decided that I’m going to start job searching in the hopes of finding something new by the end of summer. I just do not want to deal with the culture issues, and it’s going to start impacting me directly (and negatively) soon. I plan to use as my reason for leaving that I fundamentally do not like the industry, and I see no reason to be in an industry that I hate when I have other options. Which has the advantage of being 100% true. I hate the industry.

  99. Time Turner Needed*

    How do you apply to jobs when you have a job??? Seriously – I am worried about being fired. I MUST apply to other jobs. My job often takes more than 40 hours a week. I like to do things like go to the gym, get 8 hours of sleep, go to church, and see friends sometimes – all of which I don’t think are unreasonable, especially since my mental health is really poor right now with the stress. But I can’t for the life of me find the time to apply to jobs, even when I am making less plans with friends and skipping some gym sessions. Help??

    1. Emmie*

      Apply to one job per day, or every other day. Make it one that you really want. Customize that cover letter and send a targeted resume. Quality over volume is more important anyways.

    2. Genny*

      Consider working your network too. Let trusted people know you’re shopping your resume and ask them to pass along relevant opportunities they hear about.

    3. N Twello*

      Bottom line: Make the time. If you can’t find enough time in your off-work hours, then take vacation days or call in sick. Work on it while you’re at work. Get up early and put in two hours before work.

      The issue here is not that you don’t have time; the issue is stress. It’s very difficult to be energized about new opportunities when you’re anxious and unhappy. But it’s way easier to find a job when you have a job: so find a way!

      Best luck to you.

      1. strawberries and raspberries*

        I agree with this, as someone who’s doing it right now (and loves the gym and iPad time at home something serious, believe me). It really does take time, but the more you preload the more it will pay off. I try not to do it at work, but on a Sunday afternoon I’ll go to the coffee shop with my laptop and bookmark jobs I like/research the companies, tweak my cover letters, and if I don’t have time/energy to apply for them all at the same time, make a schedule of applications for the week so I’m blasting out at least one a day. It makes it a little more manageable. (This Sunday I took about four hours to apply for five jobs, and I’ve already heard back from one.)

        Also, as someone else who deals with anxiety, the more you put it off, the more anxious you get, and if you’re thinking about this in the context of “I’m going to get fired,” it’ll make it that much harder to start if you haven’t already. Just do it! You’ll feel a lot better.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      Make a really good resume and put it up on job boards. Make sure to not include your phone or it’ll blow up all the time. Good recruiters will be looking for you and might swipe you without you having to lift so much as a finger.

      Also, set aside some amount of time every day to work on jobs and schedule your free time. Stick to it. Good luck!

    5. A Person*

      Do you have a smartphone? Try downloading job board apps like indeed that you can browse between other committments and send yourself an email with jobs you want to apply to. There are some you can apply up in the app if you have your documents pre loaded.

      Also yes, you may need to schedule some time off to knock out some of the job applications or the cover letter/resume prep work. It really helped me to take a Friday off every once in a while (or even an afternoon) to get organized.

  100. Amber Rose*

    Our new OH&S laws are ruining my excellent safety program. So I decided to run with them in the most literal sense. Safety committee members should be chosen by the workers? Fine. We’ll hold an election. *grumble*

    As a consequence of me announcing this however, and my coworkers’ particular sense of humor, the office is now full of election posters. Really elaborate ones! They’re amazing.

    Anyways, I’m still sulking but I feel a little cheered up.

  101. Augusta Sugarbean*

    Any GIS people here? I was reading over the courses for a GIS certificate at our local community college. It sounds interesting but I’m a little skeptical that a less-than-one-year (48 credit) certificate will make me qualified for even entry level jobs. The school website says they don’t have employment statistics because they aren’t required to track them.

    The classes include: Professional Web Design, Computer-Aided Drafting I, Intro to Physical Geography, Intro-Geographic Info System, Data Collection & Application, Programming for GIS, Advanced Programming for GIS, ArcGIS I & II, Remote Sensing, Computer Literacy for Techs. There’s also a few electives and coop work experience for a couple of terms.

    I’d appreciate anyone’s input. Thank you!

    1. Anita-ita*

      I took GIS classes in college as part of my Geography degree. You work on a lot of real life examples so I think those types of classes would be very helpful and definitely prepare you! I know many people who have gone into working in GIS after graduating and they didn’t take that many GIS classes, I think just ArcGIS I, II, and III.

      1. To your point*

        Fellow Geography degree-haver saying hi! I don’t do GIS though, unfortunately – I got a masters in Geography while doing Area and International Studies for my undergrad.

      2. Eve*

        I agree with all of what Anita-ita said. I was also a geo major, but my school only offered half those classes you listed in the department. I know several people who went into GIS careers afterwards. Maybe look at job descriptions or see if you can find a contact or two at the companies?

        As an aside – Remote Sensing was one of my favorite classes as an undergrad.

    2. Genny*

      I can’t speak for every profession, but the people in my office who work with GIS and do geographic analysis are all PhDs (or becoming PhDs). The jobs are probably mid-level, so I don’t know what kind of qualifications you need for entry level jobs. Just one data point to consider.

    4. Fishsticks*

      Are you looking to get specifically into a GIS career or just have the skills and be able to use the software if your job requires it (ex. doing extensive projections and conversions versus needing more mapping ability than google provides)? The certificate may not help you with a full GIS career that’s not entry-level but as I’m not in that profession I can’t speak for certain. I know some people who do and they generally have bachelors in some science field for entry level jobs using GIS and have taken classes for it.

      1. Fishsticks*

        ooh as an added point, look at GIS job descriptions to get a feel for how much is needed. It may say something like a certain number of years working with it or a familiarity with it. It varies.

    5. Augusta Sugarbean*

      Thank you to everyone who replied!

      Honestly, my true goal is a new job that is not healthcare/A&D. I have a bachelors degree from ~30 years ago and have taken a bunch of post-bacc math/stats/econ over the last several years so that’s all pretty fresh. It’s not feasible for me to get a whole new degree or really even an associates. I need to get out of this workplace as soon as humanly possible. I’ve just painted myself into a corner with my current field/skills and need to do something completely different. I’ve been looking at the <1 year certificates to see what looks interesting and that will allow me to leave my current position in a reasonably short time. I have a lot of flexibility in starting wage and no ego about my age/experience/whatever so entry level is totally fine.

      1. BikeMapper*

        GIS is a good bridge if you are able bridge and leverage using your GIS skills in a specific industry or knowledge space. Just knowing how to do the software, those positions are going away.

        The GIS certificate, might get you in the door but is limiting for advancement because you only “do GIS”. Using GIS as a tool, you can focus on an interest and build a career. Right now all I do is GIS, and pursuing a masters outside of GIS just so I can still use the toolset I have and move up in my career. If it matters, I have a degree in GIS and 5 years of experience gained after 35. More insight is on the r/GIS subreddit

        Have you thought of self study? There are some really good vender training, and MOOCs that cover most of what you described.

  102. NW Mossy*

    What do you do when you realize that someone else is at the BEC stage with you?

    Last week, my director shared some critical feedback with me from one of her peers. My director happens to disagree with the feedback, and specifically noted that she has never heard anything similar about me from anyone else. After talking it through, our conclusion was that this other director (let’s call her Heidi) is peeved because I push back occasionally on requests from her area when they’re risky or otherwise inappropriate. I’ve always had the sense that Heidi’s wary/mistrustful of me, but this is the first time she’s put words to what was previously an unspoken… contempt, maybe? At any rate, I have my director’s full support in pushing back, and to her, it’s a big piece of the value I bring to the organization.

    The problem is that Heidi is enormously influential here – she’s been here for decades and will likely remain until she retires in 10-20 years, so her distaste for me can have major consequences for my career. I’d eventually like to be a director myself, and there’s a real risk that Heidi might cash in some of her stockpile of political capital to prevent that from happening. Rather obviously, I need to figure out a way to win Heidi over, both for the long game but also to be able to do my job without walking on eggshells around her and hers.

    I know the easiest way to do this would be to never say no to requests from Heidi’s area, but my director’s made it clear that she doesn’t want me doing that (not that I’d be inclined by nature anyway). But I’m struggling to think of other ways that I can signal to Heidi that I want to have a good working relationship. I’d hate to have to leave the organization over this because it feels so silly to throw away all the other good stuff I’ve got going here, but I also know that I can’t function well with The Sword of Heidi’s Wrath hanging over me all the time. Anyone got any brilliant ideas?

    1. SpaceNovice*

      Listen to Allison’s latest podcast about tone. Maybe she’s reading into your tone for push back the wrong way?

      Sometimes people need more explanation than a simple “no” or want people to work with them. You can’t always win people over, but sometimes you have to sit down and work with them for a bit to show you’re giving full consideration to their requests, even if the answer is ultimately no. It’s possible the requests could lead to you discovering the heart of an issue that she hasn’t realized. Basically make sure that it’s obvious you’re treating her like a colleague and not a nuisance. Ask her how she prefers to have you communicate that you’re either can or can’t do something she requests. You can also ask her for details on the feedback and let her air what she thinks, making sure that you use the tone in the podcast to set up a “safe space” for feedback. Be prepared for it to hurt a little and be ready to say you need time to digest it if it’s especially thought provoking before reacting to it.

      This may or may not work, but I suspect it will. You need to figure out a set of mutual expectations that work for the both of you. Explaining why you make such decisions goes a long way towards accepting a “no” answer, and it might even open up a discussion where something else you CAN do for them will help more than the original request.

    2. rldk*

      Do you know of any coworkers or higher-ups you have a good relationship with who also get along with Heidi that you could ask for advice? Even if it’s just asking if she’d be more receptive to criticism if phrased differently?
      I don’t know if your office culture would allow it, but something like getting a coffee outside the office and asking her advice about how she got to where she is could be a way to express your admiration or appreciation for what she does well (if you think she does anything well!). It might also open an opportunity to explain that your pushback is never out of disapproval or distrust of Heidi, but rather healthy caution because you care a lot about your team and the organization

    3. Not So NewReader*

      If Heidi is doing this to you then she probably has done it to others. People don’t wake up one morning and start behaving this way toward just one person.

      IF you think you trust your boss, maybe you can ask her about career impact. You may find out that everyone hates Heidi and they think that if Heidi hates someone then that person is probably okay.

      We can’t make people like us. The best we can do is be professional and be fair. Be seen as being professional and fair. This is a time consuming approach, it takes time for people to realize and even more time for them to say they noticed. But they will notice. Ironically, your fairness might win Heidi over in the long run. I have worked with people who disliked me or I disliked them. Sometimes it did not matter because we both realized the other was doing the job. Sometimes people can just agree that the other person is doing a good job and that is as good as it gets.

  103. Jubilance*

    When you apply to jobs that require you use an ATS system like Taleo or Workday, do you write a cover letter? I’m thinking of the type of system where you upload your resume, it pre-fills in the info from your resume, and then you can have a saved profile to submit to other jobs if you’d like.

    1. Denise*

      I think most of those systems have options to include cover letters and/or attachments. I always include one unless it’s specified that it’s not required. In that case, I’m grateful that HR is signalling that they don’t put a lot of weight on them and therefore I won’t waste time laboring over one.

    2. foolofgrace*

      I’ve rarely had good luck with systems that pre-fill from a resume. Look it over carefully to make sure the fields are filled in appropriately.

    4. AeroEngineer*

      I have used Taleo a lot (seems to be a popular system for companies in my field) and I always write a cover letter, and submit it with my standard profile. There is usually a step where I can upload it to the system even if I am using an old profile, and for my field cover letters are wanted.

      I found that if you can import from linkedin, the fields fill out quite good in taleo. If I use the resume importer, I really have to check every single field as it picks up some really weird things.

  104. Death Rides a Pale Volvo*

    OK y’all: husband had a group interview 2 weeks ago. The person leading the interview said that people would hear, one way or another, at the beginning of last week. Last week comes and goes, nothing. The husband sent out a polite inquiry email at the beginning of this week. He hasn’t heard back.

    Should he send out another polite email at the beginning of next week? Or should he drop it?

    1. agmat*

      I feel like I’m channeling Alison here when I say he should drop it and try to mentally move on.

  105. Genny*

    I just completed my grad school capstone project (i.e. thesis replacement). It’s directly relevant to the field I want to branch into, but I’m not sure if I should put it on my resume or only mention it in a cover letter. It’s great research/analysis experience for an impressive client, but because I’m working in a related field, I don’t have a lot about school on my resume. I have enough job accomplishments that I don’t need to fill space with things like classes and papers. I’m worried that if I put this on a resume, it will look out of place, but if I just write about it in a cover letter then it will get glossed over/left out when I apply to places that only take resumes (cough, USAJobs, cough). Any thoughts?

    1. Dee*

      I was part of a grad school program that had a similar situation. It depends on the job I’m applying for. If it’s an especially important fit for the job (i.e. I’m applying for work specifically in that field), I put it either as its own entry or as a sub-bullet under my education. If it’s just somewhat related, I’ll lump it in with other consulting positions/short term projects that I’ve held. If it’s not connected at all, I leave it off.

      1. Bibliovore*

        I consider capstone projects relevant when hiring if they relate to the work of the position. For my field they often are part of an internship and would be listed as such.

        The cover letter is perfect place to note if there is relevance to the position.

  106. StressedButOkay*

    Dressing up casual clothes? My work just changed from business casual to casual, with the exceptions being if anyone important comes into the office/we have an offsite event/etc. Getting my business casual outfits to look good was super easy but I worry about how to make jeans/a nice shirt look good (professional while casual?).

    I’m a woman who isn’t really that fashionable, though I do okay!, and every time I Google I get links to, well, business casual which doesn’t help! I want to enjoy the relaxed rules but also want to be put together!

    1. fposte*

      Leave a shaped neutral cardigan and a belt in the office ready for throwing on over something.

      1. anyone out there but me*

        This, keep a cardigan or blazer handy. And a more dressy pair of shoes to slip on.

    2. Espeon*

      Smart/er shoes and a blazer – done! If you want to go next-level, accessories also help to dress a casual outfit up – jewellery, a nice scarf etc.

    3. BuffaLove*

      This is something I deal with a lot! I totally agree with the other commenters – replace casual shoes with something like low-heeled booties or flats and throw on a nice cardigan or blazer, and you’re set. I’d also stick with dark wash jeans since they tend to look more polished.

  107. sfigato*

    I have questions about pronouns, specifically,
    a, does your org include pronouns in their email signatures?
    b, is it common in meetings with people from other orgs to say your pronouns? and
    c, if so, how do you feel about it?

    I work in a np connected to the arts and social justice, and it is very common to list pronouns and give them in meetings, but I have friends in for-profits in the same city who have never heard of such a thing. And while I don’t want to misgender someone, the act of a bunch of clearly gendered people announcing, “My name is cindy, my pronouns are she/hers, my name is frank, my pronouns are he/his” feels….less than ideal, especially given than in 99.999% of the cases I’ve encountered, the gender of the speaker is obvious and matches with their presentation. It ends up feeling like this attempt to normalize gender fluidity is inadvertently showing how uncommon non-conforming identities actually are. What are your thoughts/experiences?

    1. Temperance*

      So, FWIW, I see it a bit differently. I think this sort of scenario almost helps normalize gender-nonconforming folks because it evens the playing field?

      1. StressedButOkay*

        I agree! Sometimes the gender might seem obvious but isn’t so I think this is a good policy to have.

      2. Arielle*

        Strongly agree. You might also find that some of those “clearly gendered” people would switch up their pronouns if it were presented as an option and a normal thing. I have toyed with the idea of using they/them pronouns but it would involve so much constant explanation that it seems overwhelming.

      3. Ange*

        Yes, as a non-binary person, when I go to spaces where people do the pronoun thing, even if they’re almost all customers, it makes me feel more welcome. I feel that I can be honest about my pronoun preference.

    2. agmat*

      I think I’m with you there on how it feels less than ideal. When it boils down to it, most people are not misgendered. So everyone bringing up their (non-questioned) gender just…adds noise.

      I work in government which tends to run conservative, although I am not. If people at my work, or the industries we interact with, started doing this, people’s eyes would bug out of their head. But I don’t think the solution is to make it okay that *everyone* identifies their pronouns. What I would like to see is that if someone says “hey, actually I use she/her” or “I use gender neutral pronouns, please use zir” then the response is just “oh sorry about that, thanks for correcting me”. Of course, that’s the hard part, right? Making it NBD to people who never really (have to) think about it.

      I dunno, maybe asking people to correct misgendering after the fact is asking for work that they shouldn’t have to do on their part…but everyone identifying themselves upfront just doesn’t strike me as the right solution.

      1. ANon.*

        I am 100% not the person to be explaining it – so someone with more knowledge on this PLEASE jump in! – but I think putting the burden on the non-cisgendered person to correct misgendering is more of hardship for that person than you’re thinking (i.e. it requires more of them than just politely correcting the misgendering). Again, not the person to elaborate, just fairly certain it’s not quite as simple as that.

      2. Claire*

        ANon. has the right right idea. I’m a cis woman, but gay. Every time someone asks me about my “husband,” it’s just like… a record scratch. It immediately derails me. I’m super out and don’t have any immediate concerns about being out, but if someone asks me about my “husband” then I have to go through this mental consideration of whether it’s worthwhile to correct them and how to do it politely and without derailing them or the conversation we’ve been having to that point and how they’ll react, and if I don’t correct them now it’s going to be even more awkward in the future and on and on. It’s exhausting! And having a wife comes up so much less in everyday work conversation than my pronouns.

    3. Nashira*

      I’m a nonbinary person. My feeling is that providing your pronouns is putting you on the same level I am, in the places and times where I’m out about being trans. I see it as akin to cisgender folks needing to get over being called cis.

      1. Anon a mouse*

        Why do I need to get over it? You call yourself nonbinary, meaning that you get to call yourself what you like. Don’t I get to call myself what I like? I’ve never liked cisgender as a term, and don’t describe myself that way, so why do you think you get to put a label on me that I don’t want?

    4. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

      I view it as helpful to see the social title (Mr./Ms./Mrs.) with a full name in an email signature. It’s especially helpful when the person’s first name is commonly associated with a specific gender and that is not the person’s identified gender, or the first name is unique/not associated with a particular gender, or the first name is widely known as all-gender (e.g. “Mr. Ashley Washington”/ “Ms. Beyoncé Knowles” /”Ms. Taylor Smith”).

      Reciting pronouns in a meeting seems like unnecessary extra time. If Frank uses she/her and someone unknowingly refers to Frank as “he”, the meeting director can politely say “Oh, Frank is ‘she/her.'” If pronoun-matching is important, have people write the pronouns on their nametags.

    5. Rat in the Sugar*

      This has been brought up in the comments before, and what I remember someone pointing out last time is that there may be people out there who not out about not being cisgender, and this kind of thing may inadvertently make them feel pressured to out themselves or make them uncomfortable about their pronoun choices/people’s reactions to them.

      I really wish I could remember the post where people were discussing it, because a few people made some compromise suggestions that struck a good balance between pushing for acceptance of listing pronouns and not causing discomfort to those who aren’t cisgender. Anyone else got a link?

    6. Lindsay J*

      It’s absolutely just not done at all in my industry. I’ve only ever heard about it happening on the internet.

      It’s difficult, because, as a mostly-cis woman, I feel like it’s not really my place to have an opinion on it because it’s not something done for me. What matters is how non-gender conforming people feel about it. And, as they’re each individual people, I imagine some will be for it, some will be against it, etc.

      I personally feel like honoring the requests of people who ask to be gendered differently or use different pronouns is enough. Is a bunch of cis people preemptively stating their standard pronouns really going to make a non-cis person feel comfortable speaking up when they wouldn’t otherwise? I somehow doubt it. But, then, I don’t have the lived experience to know.

      And I think there is some value in it in showing that you are a safe organization for people, just like there was some value in the whole wearing a safety pin thing. It needs to be accompanied by things like not employing bigots, doing things like having non-gendered bathrooms available, etc. But sometimes showing helps. I imagine it would be especially important in the social justice sphere, etc.

    7. Anon in case I offend someone*

      According to a Wikipedia round up of various studies, less than 1% of population in America is anything other than cisgender. (Estimates between 0.3% and 0.6%). Some unknown proportion of these would be binary trans and would present as their preferred gender so would not be misgendered. The percentage of people who are non binary, or do who not “pass” for their chosen gender, is most likely far less than 0.5% of the population, ie less than 1 in 200 people. The proportion would obviously be higher on fields that attract trans workers, e.g. LGBT non-profits. In fields with a high proportion of commonly misgendered people, this would be appropriate in signatures and meetings.

      However, in the vast vast majority of situations, in businesses that do not attract a higher than average number of trans people, the chance of running into someone who is commonly misgendered is minute. In the vast majority of contexts, outside of some very particular fields, this is just not an issue. I am a woman, I work in a male-dominated industry, and I have never met someone through work who did not present as clearly a particular gender. I possibly have met trans people through work, but I honestly wouldn’t know it because any trans people I met were obviously “passing” well as their preferred gender.

      In my workplace what you describe would literally make no sense. People announcing their gender in meetings would be multiple people all saying “my pronouns are he/him” or “she/her”. If we were required to do it by management, people would complain and I am 100% certain people would start making up silly pronouns for a joke/rebellion against such a pointless waste of time. It would basically end up with every meeting starting off with people laughing at the concept of non-binary pronouns. Which would obviously defeat the purpose.

      So no, I don’t think it’s a good idea to roll this sort of thing out in general.

      1. Anon in case I offend someone*

        Addendum: the inevitable ridicule of this requirement would make any actual closeted trans people feel very uncomfortable.

        I really don’t see the point unless there is someone in the room who does not present clearly as a particular gender.

        1. Ange*

          I disagree that ridicule is inevitable. I look at it as similar to when places were moving over to non-gendered terms such as chair rather than chairman. There is some pushback, and then people get used to it.

    9. Someone else*

      a. No
      b. No
      c. Indifferent personally? I’m assuming the question in c was how do I feel about a and b?

      My company is aware of and occasionally works with either other companies or specific clients who do use pronoun-signatures. I don’t have any issues with those who do this as either a company-wide standard or just on a person-by-person if-you-want-to basis. It doesn’t register to me as out of the norm. Our company signature does not include/require it, but no one would blink at one that did. I don’t expect anyone would be thrilled with the idea of taking time at the start of a meeting for everyone to announce pronouns. We’re very much a cut-to-the-chase-in-meetings type. So again, if there were a misunderstanding over someone’s pronouns, or if someone wanted to pre-emptively address it, no one would balk, but it’d be more of an address-it-when-needed thing than a baked-into-every-meeting-with-new-people thing.

    10. Cedrus Libani*

      I’m at least somewhat in the target demographic – I’m butch enough to be asked for my pronouns with regularity, though I do use she/her and consider myself cis. I’d still find it a bit odd for everyone to routinely give their pronouns.

      Maybe I’d get used to it; I’ve never actually seen this practice in the wild. But 99.9% of the time, it’s obvious what the person is going for, even if they’re trans or non-binary. The other 0.1% can be handled quickly and politely – “Sorry, what’s your pronoun?”

      I also suspect that more than 0.1% of people are still figuring themselves out, and they probably don’t want to get into it as part of a routine meeting, even if their coworkers are sympathetic.

  108. Free Meerkats*

    So, my manager has set a provisional retirement date! Assuming everything goes as has been discussed with his manager, it will be my program in a bit over a month.

    Not counting chickens yet, but checking eggs for pip marks.

    1. Not a Former Reality Game Show Host*

      “Not counting chickens yet, but checking eggs for pip marks.”

      I love the metaphor you wrote here; I may borrow it in the near future!

  109. Denise*

    I shared a month or so ago that I believe my job was a bit bait and switch-ish regarding the level of responsibility. I initially turned down the position, saying it didn’t seem like a step forward professionally and my manager asked me to reconsider, had me come back for another interview. I thought they really understood my prior experience and future goals, but when I got here, I felt that my initial intuitions were right and it felt like I had regressed about 5 years career-wise.
    My manager, I think sensing my discontent, has offered various one-off opportunities to do more, but it’s treated almost like a growth opportunity and something subject to her discretion than an area of responsibility for me.

    QUESTION: I could address this with my boss, but I’m kind of not seeing the point. I think I would basically be asking her to restructure my job in a way that would impact team responsibilities more broadly and also require her to give up some of the more responsible (and rewarding) work that she currently does. That seems like an unreasonable request, though it is what I would need to stay. Would you say anything?

    1. Oxford Coma*

      I would just start looking. It sounds like she pushed the issue despite your reservations to begin with, so she got what she wanted at your expense right off the bat. She has no motivation to fix this.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      That’s a tough one. I was offered multiple one-offs at my previous job and at the time, that kept me feeling valued and got me some visibility I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. Long-term though, it didn’t matter because I was laid off anyway, so … not that valued after all.

      If the job’s a real step back, which it seems to be, restart your job search and get out. I mean, if your manager really gets it she would voluntarily give you meaningful responsibilities, not one-off busy work. Ultimately, the best move for your career is probably to get back to where you were (or ideally a step beyond) now, not several years from now.

  110. cactus lady*

    I am currently in the middle of a huge project that’s fairly significant for my department, and I have three assistants helping me with it. It’s coming to a close soon, and since they are really going above and beyond with everything, I want to do something nice for them to show my appreciation. Is it appropriate to get them gifts? It’s not possible to take them to lunch, since they all can’t be gone at the same time. (This isn’t something the company would pay for, it would be coming out of my own pocket.) I don’t directly manage them, they are general department assistants, so they do a whole lot more than just help me on this project. Not sure what boudaries are for this kind of thing – thoughts?

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Personally in similar circumstances, I find it weird to give people personalized gifts (it’s a little intimate, and it blurs the personal-professional line) but I would do something nice for all three of them together, like bringing in a treat – perhaps cookies or doughnuts or bagels, or a mix of all three depending what I know of their dietary restrictions – or a tray of fancy coffees, or something. Also, a personal email thanking them – and CCing their bosses – is always the right move.

    2. Susan K*

      First and foremost, send an e-mail to whoever their manager is, commending their contributions to the project and describing how they went above and beyond. I wouldn’t get them gifts, but lunch is a nice idea. Since you can’t take them out to lunch, can you bring in takeout from their favorite restaurant?

      1. Future Analyst*

        +1 to this– making sure their manager(s) know that they went above and beyond is v. helpful.

      2. CalEA*

        +1 Great advice, Susan K! They can keep the words of appreciation on file for their performance reviews, too.

      3. cactus lady*

        Yes, I have been doing this! I work pretty closely with their manager and I have been emailing praise to him! I wanted to do something a little more though – they are entry-level roles, I remember what it was like when I was in that position, and how nice it was when someone acknowledged me for anything, ever. Catering is tricky because we have an open office (ugh, I know) but maybe I can figure out something to take them to lunch individually. Thanks!

    3. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I think gift cards (no more than $20) and a nice card with a heartfelt thank you in it would be appropriate.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      Catering can also be an option! And some acknowledgement for a job well done that others can see. Maybe your company should start a small certificate of recognition program or something. There’s multiple options.

      Thank you for seeking to acknowledge them–that’s awesome!

    5. CalEA*

      Admin here! I’ve often received gift cards as tokens of appreciation for helping with special projects. You can choose a specific store if you know what they like (Starbucks, Macy’s, a local restaurant, etc.), or you could go with a Visa gift card. Another option (if you are their manager) is to give them a day off. :)

      1. cactus lady*

        Oh man I wish I could give them the day off – they certainly deserve it! Unfortunately, that’s outside of my power.

    6. Totally Minnie*

      If you can’t take them out to lunch, can you bring them a treat to enjoy in the office? Some cookies or fancy coffee or something like that?

  111. Almost Violet Miller*

    I am going get an intern in a few weeks. I’m starting to plan her first week. What are the topics you suggest to discuss apart from what her actual tasks will be?
    Organizational structure
    Office kitchen rules

    My onboarding was pretty hectic and we have nothing formalized so I am quite free to do whatever I feel would be the most hepful.

    We have had similar threads but I can’t find them… if you can link them, feel free to do so! Thanks.

    1. Dee*

      What sort of mentoring/growth opportunities she’s looking for from this internship! What her plans for after are, how often you want to meet for feedback, if there are any long-term projects that would interest her, etc.

    2. Temperance*

      I would make it very clear to her that you’re happy to answer *any* questions that she has.

    3. Oxford Coma*

      Unspoken norms. One of our interns saw a lot of people wearing jeans on Fridays and started doing it too, but nobody had told her it was a “pay to play” charity dress code.

      1. rldk*

        +1 ! If you don’t know what level of professional experience she has, definitely start a low level of office norms. Dress code (in theory and in practice), etiquette in meetings (taking notes, attentiveness, etc.), and how people in the office tend to communicate (email v phone v walking over).

        I had several interns in my last job, all of whom were very new to the workplace but at varying levels of comfort with professional norms. It helped that I was only a couple of years older than them so they felt comfortable asking questions, but making it explicit that you’re here to help with all aspects of the job can go a long way!

    4. SpaceNovice*

      Also office etiquette 101, make sure she knows you’re open to questions if she has them, intranet sites, how recording time should work, and anything else you can think of that you had to learn about working in an office. Not all at once, but over time.

    5. BuffaLove*

      I remember always being stressed about lunch as an intern. Is it okay if I go eat my sandwich by myself in the park nearby, or am I supposed to be eating in the lunch room? If I eat in the lunch room, is it okay if I read, or am I supposed to sit with other people and make small talk? Would it be super weird if I used the office gym at lunch? …etc. All stuff that seems like a no-brainer now (just do whatever you want!), but everything takes on a much greater level of importance when you’re only there for three months or whatever and you feel like you have a giant NOOB spotlight on you.

  112. Vesperia*

    Yesterday’s post about the hair twirling reminded me about a comment my (old) manager gave me. She pulled me aside and said that I looked very unengaged in the short “team huddle” we had the day before because I was fidgeting with stuff. I would’ve appreciated the comment more if she didn’t say in that team huddle, “Vesperia just needs to do her work” in a very unpleasant tone. Would anyone be engaged after a comment like that in front of all your immediate coworkers? (let it be known that I was not slacking – my coworkers were catching me up on what happened in a project after I had been off on vacation)

    Anyway. Drama happened and she’s not my manager anymore (yay for half measures in the company to try and fix a broken situation! still looking for a new job though) but I had the thought today that she is very much the Dolores Umbridge of managers, down to the throat clearing and obnoxious little laugh.

      1. Vesperia*

        Unfortunately she’s still at the company. She’s not actively managing me at least but it’s awkward all around – she’s petty enough to ignore me!

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Oh, dart; I thought she had been fired. But when someone giving you the cold shoulder is what you want….

          1. Vesperia*

            Hahaha I wish! She’s been here for like 10 years, I’m pretty sure she’s never going to leave at this point and if they haven’t fired her yet after some of the stories I’ve heard… She has a weird dedication to the company, like Umbridge has a weird dedication to the Ministry of Magic.

            1. SpaceNovice*

              Oh drat. Well, I guess every company needs an Umbridge? At least she’s identifiable.

    2. So like then*

      Not sure if this is the same, but I used to use “like” a lot when I talked. My boss pointed it out one day by saying that if I kept using that word then other important people in our profession were going to think I was an idiot. The person standing next to him (same rank) was horrified and said that. But I took it as my boss looking out for me. I made a point to stop saying “like.” One day after talking to him for 5 minutes about a project he stopped and complimented me for the fact that I had improved. My point is, sometimes we are not projected who we think we are and the best people are the ones who let us know and are happy for us when we take it as advice.

  113. De Minimis*

    I had what I thought was a great interview last week, but was notified this week that I wasn’t selected.

    I really feel stuck on what to do with my job search. I’d like to leave this area in that the cost of living is just too high, and the type of field I’m in doesn’t really pay a competitive wage for the area. I’m an accountant, but I’ve been pretty much pigeonholed in the government/nonprofit field. I have some interest from healthcare organizations occasionally, but nothing lately.

    I’ve had some phone interviews for out-of-state positions, but I think they just keep going with local candidates. Would really like to leave, but I don’t see a way of doing that other than moving without a job, which I don’t think is a wise gamble at my age [mid 40s.] Family all live in areas with super low wages and limited job markets for what I do. I did have one interview with a former employer in that area, but don’t think I got it.

    Not sure what to do. Just keep applying, and just hope I find something soon. I’m employed right now, but my salary is being cut soon and there are major changes at my job that I really don’t want to be a part of.

    1. Boredatwork*

      Have you considered applying for jobs in public accounting? There are a lot of smaller, more local firms that would probably like your non-profit experience and since they’ll have a broad client base, hopefully you could branch out?

      If this is at all interesting to you, I’d shoot for firms with 5ish partners. I worked at one early in my career, they did everything from small business book keeping to auditing some larger non-profits in the area.

      1. De Minimis*

        I was a washout at public accounting earlier in my career, it was a Big 4 and though the culture would most likely be different at a smaller firm, I just don’t think I’m a match for public accounting, period.

        Thanks for the suggestion, though. I have considered something like that, but I’m really looking for a long-term job with a government entity or similar large organization.

        1. Boredatwork*

          NP – I am also opposed to public accounting – bleck – sometimes its the easiest way to dramatically re-locate while still employed. I’ve know several people who “went back” and then left for an industry job at their first opportunity.

          1. De Minimis*

            I tried one firm the last time I was job searching. I chatted with the recruiter over the phone, and she basically said I was too old for them [though she of course didn’t actually say that, but that’s what she meant.]

  114. Dee*

    I’m wrapping up a fellowship in mid-July, and I’m getting married/going on a honeymoon for the first few weeks of September. I can either start looking for a full-time position or look for a temp job that will take me through September, then search for a full-time position after the wedding. Does it make sense to start looking for full-time positions? How many jobs will realistically hire me when I’ll be taking off and unreachable for two weeks in the first few months of the job? I’m worried about passing up work because it’s a small field with a lot of competition, but I don’t want to waste anyone’s time.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Ooh, if I could afford it, I would *love* to start the job search after the wedding – what a once in a lifetime opportunity to just relax and escape the work world. And I wouldn’t want to be stressed about checking emails and responding quickly during my honeymoon (or the week of my wedding). But for me it wouldn’t be financially possible. If you can …

      1. Dee*

        Oh, I’d definitely still be working! Through undergrad and grad school I worked youth summer programming, so I would go back to that as a (less lucrative) supplement that miraculously ends right before the wedding. I’m mostly wondering if anyone here has successfully negotiated two weeks off right at the beginning of the job starting.

        1. rldk*

          If you’re able, being able to ask for PTO immediately with a backup of just pushing the official start date might go well. Especially if you approach it knowing it’s unusual/unlikely

        2. Llellayena*

          I think the summer program idea is great. It will give you the mental space to focus on all the wedding tasks without stressing about learning a new job. Don’t hold off on job hunting, but be clear that your start date is after the honeymoon. The job hunting process can take months, so this won’t be unusual to the companies you’re applying to.

  115. Girasol*

    Do folks have any recommended scripts or talking points when negotiating flex time as part of a job offer? I may get an offer sometime next week and want to be prepared to make the case.

    I’m comfortable working their regular business hours (9-5) but occasionally want to work 8-4 or work remotely, work remotely part of the day/in office part of the day, plus take off a couple hours here and there for appointments and personal commitments… and eventually set myself up to have more flexibility to deal with all the uncertain things that can arise. I’m always willing to go above and beyond and do what it takes or get the job done, and have a great track record of thus that my references have attested to.

    I’m just not sure how to frame the above request ;) Thanks all!

    1. Liz Lemon*

      Do you currently have flextime? I find that can be a helpful framing (I’ve used it for title, for example): “I have some flexibility with my hours here at Teapot Inc., occasionally working remotely, from 8-4, etc., and I’d hate to lose that perk. Is that an option in this new role at Teapot & Co?”

      If you don’t have that in your current job, you could say: “What’s the office policy on flextime or remote work? Sometimes it can be helpful to be able to work remotely or come in from 8-4, etc.. Is that an option at Teapot & Co.?”

  116. Cute Li'l UFO*

    This week has been a little more about phone screens and setup. I’m still feeling good about my four hours of interviews at Local Biotech Palace where I met with four people, each for an hour. I have a Zoom interview next Thursday with one additional person who is in France and I’m really hoping that this pans out. Aside from that a video interview with an agency that I had two video/phone interviews with last year but that didn’t pan out. This time a friend of mine (who is also a boss’ friend) offered to refer me and got that one set up for the same day.

    It takes a lot out of me. I’ve been doing pretty well at killing the anxiety and self doubt this year. I suppose that comes with experience and growing resilience.

    1. rldk*

      As a fellow anxiety-haver, high five! Make sure to leave yourself a good time to decompress so that you won’t A) burn out or b) go overboard in relaxing to the point of uselessness

      1. Cute Li'l UFO*

        Thank you! I’ve always been pretty driven and have done pretty well in putting that energy into other tasks. I’ve also given myself permission to just… step away for a day at a time. All the jobs in the world aren’t going to disappear tomorrow.

        I feel very good with how I’ve handled everything this year. My anxiety hasn’t been constant. Possibly the best thing I tell myself in applying is “the worst they can say is no.”

  117. Liz Lemon*

    Hello Open Thread!

    So this week I got a very unexpected and very exciting promotion. I’m essentially going from Teapot Sales Rep to Director of Teapot Sales. I’m still in a little bit of shock, and really really excited.

    Any advice for a new manager? Any advice for managing a large team of new-to-the-field folks?

    Thanks!

    1. rldk*

      my username is a link to Alison’s roundup from a bit ago, and I think her “being the boss” tag has new manager stuff

  118. Anon4This*

    I’ve got a potentially ridiculous situation brewing. One of my coworkers recently adopted a child from Africa. Great! Except, she (and many of her office friends) consistently refers to him as “that little black boy.” I find this pretty troubling, but was just going to kind of let it go. But, more recently, the comments have gotten even more overtly racist. One of my coworkers likes to praise the adoptive mother for “saving her black boy from growing up around bad culture” and tells how lucky he’ll be to have “regular” peers growing up.

    I’m wondering if anyone could share some advice on how to respond to this situation? For context, we are in a very conservative part of the country, and also one of the least diverse (only 2% of our state is African American, and that’s higher than the population in our county). I myself am a white man, married but childless. None of our co-workers are African American, and everyone involved in this is white. I want to bring up how troublesome (and, frankly, offensive) these comments are, but I also want to respect people raising their children how they wish.

    1. Liz Lemon*

      Omg! I have no advice—it’s so tricky because the parent (!!) is saying this—but man oh man. This makes me want to scream/cry. I might resort to passively-aggressively leaving books lying around about white people parenting children of color.

    2. KR*

      Maybe in the moment, comments like “Wow.” And “That seems pretty offensive to Fergus.” “What do you mean by that? I’ve read that Nigeria is a fine place to live and work.” “What do you mean by regular people? Oh you mean white people. That seems pretty offensive.” Otherwise.. . I am so sorry for that little boy as it seems his adoptive parents have NOT done enough research and work on themselves to raise a person that’s a different race and nationality than they are.

      1. Sapphire*

        Agree with calling out the overt racism in the moment. I know it’s scary, especially with coworkers, but expressing disapproval of those comments and the attitudes behind them can help to make people stop and think about what they’re saying. If you’re particularly close to the coworker adopting the child, you might be able to privately explain more in depth why those things are offensive to say, and could be hurtful to their child.

    3. Reba*

      Oh my GLOB please look up essays by Nicole Chung and the series she edited on Catapult called “adopted.”

      Other pieces on transracial adoption:
      https://www.npr.org/2014/01/26/266434175/growing-up-white-transracial-adoptee-learned-to-be-black
      https://www.npr.org/2014/01/12/261835462/trans-racial-family-gets-double-takes-everywhere-we-go
      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/reader-center/adoption-across-race-ethnic-lines.html
      http://www.sporkful.com/your-moms-food-pt-1-what-dumplings-mandu-cant-fix/

      The last one, a Sporkful episode in which a white mother describes learning to cook ethiopian foods for her adopted child, made me cry.

      I agree with others that the innocent “What do you mean” type engagements in the moment might help to at least put a lid on the racist comments in your workplace. Do you think she’d be open to reading/listening to those links or similar? I just hope your colleague learns on the parenting job FAST.

    4. ThisIshRightHere*

      Good for you for feeling the need to speak up! If you’re worried about coming across as scolding a parent for how their choosing to raise their child, then asking innocent questions is your best bet here.
      CW: I saved my black boy from bad culture
      You: “Bad culture? What’s bad about the culture in [insert country here]?
      CW: oh, you know what I mean
      You: I’m afraid I don’t. Can you tell me more about the culture in [insert country here]?
      CW: well, you know. Poverty and crime and stuff.
      You: I see. The gun violence/police brutality here [insert American-as-apple pie societal ill here] usually shocks people from other countries. Is that what you mean by “bad culture”

      and so on and so on.

    5. strawberries and raspberries*

      In light of the fact that two white adoptive mothers of six black children just drove them all off a cliff after years of documented physical and emotional racially-based abuse, this is raising major, major alarm bells for me as well.

      1. Nita*

        Yes. I didn’t want to mention this tragedy, but sadly, this is where my mind went right away.

    6. Nita*

      The mother calls him “that little black boy”?! I’m speechless, and very worried about the child. I hope he was not adopted into an abusive household. I know it’s a big stretch to jump to worrying about that, but I just cannot see a parent (bio or adoptive) referring to their own child in terms that underscore how he’s not of the family. I hope it’s just because the adoption was so recent and feelings are still settling down…

    7. BuffaLove*

      What the what?! I’m so disappointed that someone who went through the trouble to adopt would have that kind of attitude about it. Is there any chance that you could get through to her office friends? I wonder if she’d stop using those terms if the people around her stopped.

  119. go sharks go!*

    Newer reader here and I love this blog! Good news for me on Friday: after a few months of job hunting, being ghosted by internal recruiters (this happened 3 times!), going on interviews, writing thank you’s, and receiving rejections I finally received an offer yesterday and start my new job 5/9! I am leaving a big corporate office for a smaller sized one in different industry – however the potential to be promoted is there.

    After reading this blog for a few months and searching on specific topics, I seemed to have dodged a few bullets with companies I interviewed with. Thank goodness! Now I just need my Sharks hockey team to win and I’ll be a happier camper :)

  120. Ruth (UK)*

    The importance of tea:

    My boss, “Sarah”‘s boss “Jane” has an office that connects to the office me and my colleague, “Bob” are in.

    Sarah: “Jane has a lot of work to do this afternoon so can you not disturb her unless it’s urgent”
    Bob: “What about if we’re making tea? Should we disturb her to offer her a drink?”
    Sarah: (opens Jane’s door) “Jane, is tea-making urgent?”
    Jane: “Yes.”

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        The last time they were, they hired me :D. But anyway I like my office too. It’s admin in a university and I think it’s a good setting. There’s quite a lot of work – I’m never not busy – but it’s not extreme or overwhelming and I think there’s generally good feeling / a good atmosphere. We also have a very good relationship with the academics in our department and I understand not all departments do.

        I’ve been in the job almost 6 months and I feel very lucky. My last job was in a call centre and there’s no comparison…

  121. Sapphire*

    Unemployment thread! Feel free to talk about how your job searches are going.

    Honestly, I don’t have much good news to report. I got rejected from the remote customer service position, and I wish it were easier the more it happens, but it’s not. Mostly I feel like there’s something wrong with me that I get interviewed but not hired, and it’s really frustrating to try and keep applying when nothing’s going to come of it. I’m sorry I’m not more positive, but things have been really sucky.

    1. Liz Lemon*

      I’m sorry you’re feeling so down. Unemployment is so hard, and it can be this crazy spiral of worry and low-self esteem. Have you received any feedback from interviewers, to see if there’s a pattern or something you could work on? (I know it can be hard to open your self up to what feels like even more rejection! And of course, some folks dont share feedback anyway.)

      When I was unemployed I felt like nothing was working out—and then the job I did land was a really, really good fit! So in the long run, I’m grateful that’s where I landed. But when I was in the middle of it, it was pretty awful. *internet hugs*

      1. Sapphire*

        When I’ve felt emotionally okay enough to handle it, I’ve asked for feedback, but there isn’t a pattern as far as I can tell. One interviewer said I wasn’t enthusiastic enough during the interview (but it really wasn’t something that excited me, to be fair), and then another person said it was just that I was going up against more experienced candidates.

        I’m wondering if one problem is references. I was fired from the job I held the longest, and so don’t want to offer up my supervisors from that job for obvious reasons. I have a temp job starting Monday, so at the very least, I’ll have some professional references other than the ones at my old toxic job.

        *Hugs* thank you. I really wish I could stop taking it personally and just move on, but it feels personal that I can’t get hired full time.

    2. De Minimis*

      I’m employed but soon to be underemployed [and then eventually unemployed early next year] so I’m looking.

      I’m losing energy to search…I don’t know who said it was easier to get a job when you have a job, but that hasn’t been my experience so far. I have a lot of things to apply to, and I know I should get to it, but I’m just wiped out at the end of the workday.

      I was turned down for three different jobs this week…

      1. Sapphire*

        Someone had a good piece of advice earlier up the thread to apply to one job every day or every other day so you can make it as polished as possible, and also to work your network (that’s something I will do more seriously coming up). I started job hunting when it was clear I was going to be fired imminently, and that’s what I tried to do, even though I was exhausted.

        1. De Minimis*

          What was rough was that two of them were for the same employer, the one where I’d had a good interview the week before. The first rejection was for a job that I wasn’t sure about, so I didn’t feel too bad about getting the e-mail rejection. Then an hour later, I got a second rejection for the job where I’d had a good interview, and then the floor really fell out from under me.

    3. ginkgo*

      I feel you! It’s really hard to stay positive.

      I’ve had kind of a weird week with lots of little semi-positive things happening, but nothing like an interview. I had a phone interview last week, where the recruiter said they were late in the process and might have already made a decision, but she had to contact me anyway because my background was “intriguing,” and she’d let me know if they could get me in for an interview, or if they’d already made a decision she’d pass my info on to the recruiter for a similar role. Haven’t heard back, will follow up next week. Then I had another phone interview scheduled, but they canceled it pending a skills test, which I took (and don’t feel great about), and waiting to hear back. I have a phone interview today – I googled the company and one of the articles that came up was “Ten Retailers on the 2018 Death Watch.” *facedesk* And an old colleague contacted me for a position opening up on her fiance’s team – but no job description yet and I can’t really tell from the title whether it’s something I would be good for. So I’m just… waiting on a lot of things. I’m bad at waiting.

    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      Apologies if this double posts, the internet appears to have eaten my first comment.

      I’m currently employed, but I had a sit down with my boss yesterday and the upshot was we’re both aware that I’m a poor fit for the direction they want my role to go. So I will be out of a job June 1. I’m panicky but also relieved. The interesting thing is that talking through what wasn’t working with my boss, helped me pinpoint what I am really good at. Turns out, keyword searching for those skills has turned up a lot of unexpected opportunities that I passed over when I was focused on searching for particular job titles. So I was able to send out 5 or 6 applications last night and a couple so far today, with half a dozen bookmarked for closer review and resume tailoring.

      I’m rather irked that Indeed has apparently done away with the cover letter field on their apply page.

      1. De Minimis*

        I’m sorry your job is ending, but I can understand why you feel a sense of relief. At least you know what you’re dealing with now, and it is really tough to be struggling in a job where you know it’s not working out.

        Best of luck!

    5. Cute Li'l UFO*

      Finished four hours of interviews with four different people at Local Biotech Palace, have an additional one with a remote employee in France this coming Thursday. I worked so hard to get here and I really hope I’m the one.

      First video interview with an agency I had two video interviews with last year, but now with a zesty referral!

      Something is going to happen soon! I am so excited for LBP’s interview. I feel very good about how the in-person interviews went and my god I would love to be able to walk/bike to work as well.

      Plus I have a little backlog of places I’ve been submitting to and recruiters I talk with. I’m a graphic/visual designer, if that helps.

    6. Close Bracket*

      Ooh, I got rejected from an awesome job in my field! High five!

      I’m going to start taking out bets before interviews. “Bet you $50 I don’t get this job.” If I win the bet by not getting an offer, that $50 will buy enough bourbon to ease the sting. If I lose the bet by getting the job, I’ll be so happy that I won’t miss the $50.

    7. Chaordic One*

      I had two good interviews for good interviews this week, and now I’m waiting to hear back. I think I rocked the “tell me about a time when…” questions, thanks to AAM. The waiting is the hardest part. Keeping my fingers crossed.

  122. Just Griping*

    Not using my regular name.

    I have a final round interview in a bit. I’m feeling confident about it but I’m not sure whether I’d take the offer — which is fine. I’m not worried.

    What’s bugging me is how the recruiter has started acting. I got a call from him this morning reminding me that this company is going to move fast, they’re likely to have a decision and offer within a day or two, and they’re not going to want to wait long. But that should be okay “because if you like them why not go for it?” He also went on about how it’s not in my best interest to negotiate because “you don’t want to come in there on the first day of work having argued with people already.”

    I’ve got plenty of experience and I know that’s BS. I know and accept that the recruiter’s interests don’t perfectly align with mine. I’m just a little annoyed that he’s being so transparent about it. This is an agency recruiter but it did slightly sour me on the company itself.

    1. Liz Lemon*

      Oh, Lordy, that’s very obnoxious. And also, it’s really not in the best interest of the hiring company, either, because if you accept a position for less than you really want, you might not be happy! You might not stay that long! I wonder if it would be worth mentioning this to the relevant person, if you do accept and end up working there? At the very least, I’d be tempted to tell the recruiter I know they are being transparently self-serving and thatyou’re not buying it.

      1. Just Griping*

        Yeah, I’m quite annoyed about it. I didn’t directly dispute him on either point, which may be my people pleaser tendencies taking over. I said something like “well, I like the people I’ve spoken to, but we’re not done with the process. We’ll have to see how it pans out, and how I feel about the other places I’m speaking with.” I feel that was a subtle enough way of saying I’m looking out for my best interests, just like he’s looking out for his.

        Honestly, I would reject an exploding offer out of principle. The thought of that makes me uncomfortable, I have enough options that I don’t need to worry when I do it, as long as I do it respectfully.

        Just throwing it out there, but this is an agency recruiter. Shouldn’t be a surprise. As long as I stay 90 days or whatever length of time his agreement with the hiring company specifies for the bonus, I’m sure he doesn’t care.

    2. Bea W*

      What?! Does the recruiter not get paid based on your offer? It’s normally in their best interest to negotiate the best offer for you because their fee is often based on that final number.

      I’ve worked on my searches with a lot of external recruiters, and this just sounds absolutely bizarre. Normally all negotiation takes place through the agency, not with the candidate directly unless things work differently in other fields, but recruiters for my field handle the numbers negotiation directly with the company, with your input of course.

      1. Just Griping*

        I know that’s usually the case, but I got burned a while back. Recruiter told me the company would be willing to pay $X salary, but after the interview, they emailed me saying “actually, the company is having second thoughts and think you’re only worth $X-10K.” Also the whole exchange really felt off to me. I’ve been around the block a few times and someone telling me not to negotiate gives me a bad vibe.

  123. Cousin Itt*

    Are the first interview dates stated in job posting usually accurate? I applied for a job at the start of this month that listed the first interviews as taking place next week, but I haven’t heard anything (they said I would get an email to let me know the outcome even if I was unsuccessful). Is it possible that it’s taking them longer to select candidates than they thought or should I give up hope? (It’s an arts-related non-profit if that’s relevant.)

    1. De Minimis*

      It often takes longer than they say. I work for a nonprofit and it’s often been difficult to assemble everyone that is involved in an interview process.

      1. Cousin Itt*

        Ah, thank you! They did say it could take up to 3 weeks but then interviews were after only 2 weeks so I thought the timeline might not be firm. I’ll keep crossing my fingers!

  124. Not Usually Anon*

    So I think my boss may have just lost her pregnancy at the 6 month mark. But I don’t know, because no one has told me anything really. All I know is she had a check-up and her husband called Grand Boss to say they’d had bad news and she wouldn’t be in for the week.

    I feel sad and worried for her but I also have no info and no idea when I will get info and I have not had a day off in the last fortnight and my second in command is going away for something that can’t be rescheduled. I don’t kow when my boss will be back or if she will be in a state to cover an absence when she does come back or if I will get a day off any time soon. I am so stressed!

    1. Susan Sto Helit*

      Can you ask your Grand Boss about it? The time off, obviously, not what’s up with your boss. Something like “I understand Jane is out this week and I don’t want to trouble her, but I need xxx. Is this something I should be coming to you about for the time being?”

    2. SpaceNovice*

      Assume that she’s going to be out for a while and try to see if you can find another coverage for the absence. Prepare for the worst case scenario and do what you can to lessen her workload when she gets back. Also, go to the person above her and plan with them. It sucks, but going in with that mentality will at least stop some of the churn in your head. :(

      I’m so sorry she’s going through this and that it’s affecting your job as well. I hope things go as best as they can in this awful situation.

  125. the second interview*

    What are your thoughts about accepting an interview for a job you’re still not sure about? After a first interview, the job didn’t sound exactly up my alley (lots of weekend and evening work, would have to move for it because they said the commute would be too long for me AKA 1.5 hours, etc.) but I still feel like I have more to learn about the position from a second interview. I could see myself liking the work, but those factors have put me on the fence. They also have not discussed salary and I have been hesitant to ask because I’m not sure it’s too soon.

    I’m thinking I may say yes to their invitation for a second interview, but I also am feeling guilty that I am possibly taking away a spot from someone who feels nearly 100% about the job. I’m at maybe 65-70% interest at the job. I didn’t think there would even be second interviews from what they told me (they wanted an immediate hire) so I was surprised at the second round. Would you say yes or no to a second interview when you’re not at 100%?

    1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      If you think that what you might learn in the 2nd interview could outweigh the work schedule and moving factors, then definitely do the 2nd interview. If those are deal-breakers to you, I wouldn’t. Personally, it would have to be a hell of a job for me to be OK with lots of weekend/evening work & having to move.

    2. Lindsay J*

      I think it’s completely fine to take the interview.

      If you absolutely knew that you would not be taking the job, I think the right thing to do is decline. But if the right circumstances – amazing pay, more interesting work, etc – would make you open to it, I think it’s fine to go to the interview.

      In most places I’ve worked, there hasn’t been an exact cutoff point on how many people we can interview. If we had 3 amazing candidates we would interview 3. If we had 4 we would interview 4. We wouldn’t choose to not interview someone who was an equally good candidate just to meet some cutoff. (Similarly, if we had 3 amazing candidates and one mediocre candidate, we wouldn’t do 4 interviews just to do 4 interviews when there was almost no way the 4th candidate would be chosen. So I wouldn’t look at it as taking an opportunity away from someone.

      It’s also possible that they weren’t planning on doing a second round initially, but you were their top candidate, and they sensed your hesitations in the first interview and wanted to probe them/give you another opportunity to ask questions, before they made an offer.

    3. HRH The Duke of Coriander and Gomasio*

      Today I had an interview and was maybe 65% enthusiastic about it. Recruiter wanted to move me forward and I declined.

  126. Crying*

    This is more of a vent session about well-intentioned friends getting up on their high horse when it comes to career/parenting advice. Said friend was in the fortunate position of being able to not work at all for a whole year after having her baby. (Her partner makes 6 figures.) Prior to that, she was a school guidance counselor for which she would get entire summers off (I’m not trying to diminish the efforts of any hard-working guidance counselors!) She constantly talks about how this was the “best decision ever” and how much she “feels sorry” for new moms who have to return to work “like, right away” because “it’s just not the same” and the baby is “sooooooo small and delicate.”

    I get it- everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. But what gets me is her unsolicited advice WHEN I AM NOT EVEN YET PREGNANT OR ACTIVELY PLANNING. It ranges from, “You should really try to stay at home for at least a year, or you’ll be missing out, “or, “The cost of daycare is so astronomical, that you should probably just stay home,” and the best: “Motherhood is just so magical… you shouldn’t miss a moment.” Think I don’t know any of those things?

    The first 3 times, I either changed the conversation or politely told her I’m committed to my career and it would be difficult to advance in my industry if I were to simply decide to quit my job all together after maternity leave. Secondly, without giving her every detail of my financial life, she knows my partner moved here from another country and is practically starting all over because the certs. don’t transfer. Needless to say, I am the sole insurance provider and without my job, we would struggle and then some. It’s not even a question. In response to her advice, I have made remarks such ask, “I have a handle on what I want to do. My husband also does not make 6 figures like yours.” (Not the best reaction and I admit I was projecting my annoyance but it did shut her up.)

    The thing is, the advice continues in some subtle form or another. She’s a bit thick-headed and in my opinion doesn’t pick up on social cues. Any dialogue advice? Aside from this, she is a thoughtful friend who goes out of her way to make sure I am not forgotten despite her all-consuming parent life. (Many of my friends just…. disappear.)

    Sitting here crying at my desk.

    1. Fake Eleanor*

      Have you told her, outside of individual responses, that you just don’t want to discuss this topic? A lot of people would get the hint after a couple of topic changes, but you yourself mention that she doesn’t pick up on social cues.

      Tell her something like “I know you mean well, but I’m just not interested at all in discussing my plans for balancing work and parenting. Could you please not bring it up again? If I want to talk about it, I’ll bring it up.”

      Be explicit about the pattern, not the individual instances. And if she resists or can’t manage that after explicitly being told, then you’ll know that you either have to figure out how to deflect and deal, or dial back on the time you spend together.

      1. Crying*

        Thank you. Yes, I have used similar dialogue once. I will continue to reinforce it and make a pattern out of it, even if I need to stop her mid-sentence.

        1. Totally Minnie*

          I think you can give “the talk” one more try, and from then on out make a complete non-sequitur subject change every time she brings it up. Ask if she’s seen a new movie trailer. Talk about the news article you read on your lunch break. Tell her about the really funny scene she missed when Fergus was trying to use the copy machine yesterday. She knows that talking about how you’ll raise your hypothetical future babies is off the table, so just take the conversation somewhere else.

    2. Parenthetically*

      “Jane, I gotta ask you to quit talking like that — not everyone is able to (or wants to) make those same choices, and when you say I’ll be missing out if I don’t stay home for a year, or that I shouldn’t miss a moment, it makes me feel like if I DO make different choices than you’ve been able to make, you’ll think less of me. I realize you’re probably just celebrating your own life, and I’m so glad you’re happy with the choices you’ve made, but there has to be a way for you to celebrate your choices which work for you, without diminishing others’ choices which work for them.”

      And then ever after, “Jane, you know how I feel about this. You do you, I’ll do me, we’ll both be super pumped for each other, ok?”

    3. Susan Sto Helit*

      It seems to be a reeeeeallly common thing for new mothers to want other people to make the same choices they did; it’s sort of validation for them that they’re doing the right thing.

      Try to think of it that way. The more she’s talking about it, the more she’s probably secretly unsure and overcompensating. She could be finding it really lonely being at home all the time, or missing work, but putting a brave face on it. It’s probably reassurance she’s looking for from you, as annoying as it is.

    4. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I think the scripts given by the other commenters are spot-on, but I do want to throw this out there: is there a chance that she really doesn’t have anything else to talk about? I don’t have kids, but a few of my friends have be SAHMs for stretch, and it really does make it a bit challenging to come up with topics of conversation. Not to say that you shouldn’t ask her to stop because, seriously, how annoying, but maybe just a different perspective.

      1. GarlicMicrowaver*

        I thought about that as a possibility. Just not sure what to do with that knowledge.

        1. GarlicMicrowaver*

          Oops. Yes, I am the OP. I had changed my handle temporarily because I was feeling emotional. :)

    5. Nita*

      I think you really need to be blunt. Tell her something like “Please stop telling me how to raise my future hypothetical children. For starters, I don’t have any children yet and would really prefer to talk about something else. Second, my circumstances are very different from yours, and your advice does nothing but hurt my feelings.” If she keeps going, ask her if maybe she’d prefer to babysit your (future) children for you since she clearly cannot cope with the thought of them being in the care of a “stranger.”

    6. Thlayli*

      Say something like “I’m planning on winning the lottery before we start trying, so then I’ll be able to stay home for a year.”

    7. Windchime*

      My input is a little bit different. I used to have a friend who constantly made me feel bad about myself. She had lots of nice qualities–funny, outgoing, always up for an adventure. But she also was very focused on material things, and made the people around her feel inferior in much the same way that your friend is doing to you. Long story short, she is no longer my friend. I realized after our most recent lunch date that I just didn’t like her anymore, and I didn’t need friends who constantly had to one-up me.

      You may not be at that stage yet, and that’s absolutely OK. Just something to think about.

  127. Luna123*

    I got an offer from the job I wanted and accepted it! I’m so thrilled, this company seems great. They’ve been so transparent about the job and what kind of person they want, and also it’s a great commute. Also, they have a lot of long-term employees (my last job had a ridiculous amount of turnover and it was tough for me; this new company has a normal amount of turnover).

  128. The New Wanderer*

    I posted last week asking for questions to ask about a newly created role and got some good advice, just wanted to say thanks! I used several of the questions during my turn at the end, and the hiring manager seemed really impressed by what I was asking, especially what successful traits does she see in her direct reports. :-) (I would have used a few more but some info was covered during the conversation)

    Second interview scheduled for next week!

  129. Be the Change*

    I posted some weeks ago about our huge event — it went off beautifully with zero hitches and most people who attended had a terrific time. Yay us. There were not as many people as I hoped. I have never learned not to take it personally when people register for something and then blow it off. If everyone who had registered had attended, it would have been a total triumph; as it is, maybe 75% triumph. This time, I’m maybe going to email a few people and ask what happened; did they not receive timely reminders or whatever.

    The event was two weeks ago and I am still exhausted AF. The team feels great about it, which I’m very glad about, but the truth is that only about half the team, and myself and one other person in particular, did 90% of the lifting. The other half showed up and did what they were asked at the event. (No shame no blame, roles are different.) I can’t do this one again if I’m in charge. I’ve neglected most of my other work for a month.

  130. AwkwardestTurtle*

    My mantra for the day: I am not responsible for the feelings of my coworkers if they can’t take kind feedback constructively. I am not responsible for the feelings of my coworkers if they are fundamentally unhappy in their jobs (for reasons unrelated to me). I am not responsible for the feelings of my coworkers.

    1. Parenthetically*

      Yooooo, can you invent time travel and tell me this about 5 years ago?

      Sending you good internet vibes for whatever drama you’re rising above. ;)

    2. N Twello*

      When you say “kind feedback”, do you mean that you are giving your peers unsolicited advice? If your peers are getting mad at you for giving them unsolicited advice, then yeah, you have some responsibility there.

      Just a thought…

      1. AwkwardestTurtle*

        I gave the feedback to the person in charge of their group but apparently it was obvious it came from me cuz I got some serious attitude from that person later in the day. Also the person in question is a temp admin assistant and I’m mid-level staff so no I did not give unsolicited feedback to my peers.

        1. McWhadden*

          But you aren’t their supervisor?

          Just like you aren’t responsible for their feelings they aren’t responsible to take your unsolicited feedback the way you want them to.

      1. AwkwardestTurtle*

        I saw her continually making a mistake that hadn’t caused a Big Problem yet but could if she continued to make the mistake. I informed the head of her group (not her supervisor, just someone who I knew could guide her correctly because I didn’t feel it was my place to do so) because I didn’t want her to continue to make the mistake and cause a Big Problem and get in Big Trouble. I received much attitude later that day from her. I guess I deserve it according to you, oh wise stranger on the Internet. I told the head of her group she was otherwise effective and wonderful and doing a great job. She’s been in the job for two weeks.

        1. McWhadden*

          I didn’t say you deserve it but she isn’t any more obligated to manage your feelings than you are her. And I think most people would prefer if you talked to them directly rather than go behind her back to someone in her group who isn’t even her supervisor. Then more people know she made a mistake than need to know. Generally, not going behind people’s backs to gossip to their co-workers is a good idea.

          Like, there are legitimate reasons why she isn’t feeling great about this.

  131. Can't Sit Still*

    I had a doctor’s appointment this week because I’ve been feeling exhausted and run down, and all of my lab work is normal. Her diagnosis was exhaustion: full-time work and school and being on-call is too much. So I talked to my boss and we have made some changes.

    First, she clarified that some of the more time consuming things I have been doing are not my responsibility. I can do them if I want to, but it’s not actually my job. She told me to push back on several things, and to come back to her if they don’t stop after that. There is also money in the budget for a temp, if I need one.

    Second, since I’m non-exempt, I am going to be diligent about taking my breaks and eating lunch away from my desk from now. And I can take a day off here and there if I need to. (I can’t take a real vacation until July at the earliest, it’s just not feasible. It would take too long to train a temp, unfortunately.)

    Last, I can work from home on Fridays, at least until I’m finished with my degree. I think this will make the biggest difference. At least half of the team works from home on Fridays anyway, so it shouldn’t cause much of an issue.

    1. BasicQuestions*

      Good luck! It’s hard to remember to take breaks and not stay at your desk, I know I’m guilty of cutting my lunches short and feeling guilty for leaving the department. I’m glad you’re trying to break this habit!

    2. Future Analyst*

      If it makes sense, block off lunch every day and add a calendar reminder for yourself. I started reading and actually eating lunch over my lunch hour a few weeks ago, and it’s been a game-changer to disengage and focus on anything other than work for that time. Take care of yourself!

      (Also, this may have been covered in your lab tests, but if they checked your thyroid levels, make sure they specifically checked both T3 and T4 levels. Some docs only run the “usual” (TSH) test, and that doesn’t give you the full picture.)

    3. SpaceNovice*

      Get your test results (the numbers) and look up to see what is considered normal. Especially for the thyroid tests. Make sure a full panel was run.

      It could indeed just be simple exhaustion, though. That can cause things to go haywire. Do what you can to reduce stress and do something that reduces stress on you every day. Good luck!

    4. Windchime*

      Wow, kudos to you for taking care of yourself and seeking help from your doctor, and kudos to your boss for taking it seriously and helping you to formulate a plan.

      I hope that, when July comes, you can take a nice long break for some well-deserved R & R. Meanwhile, it sounds like you’ve got a good plan in place to ease some of the pressure.

  132. Sally Sparrow*

    My boss (Department VP) keeps making comments about my workload (I’m an admin) and myself that leave me uncomfortable because of the ownership/possessiveness/personalness of them. Benefit of the doubt, she probably means them to be light-hearted or harmless, but that’s not the way it comes across to me. Typically the comment is something along the lines of “Well I want you all to myself” or “I don’t ever want you to work with anyone else” or “if I had my way you’d be all mine” or “remember, you are mine so I don’t want you doing X.” Note: I’m not doing X and haven’t done X since she changed my role to not do X. I know there are not issues with my productivity or prioritization because I always meet her deadlines. Basically, it seems that she starts viewing me not as a person but more of a thing – like a shiny toy she can flaunt.

    It is more complicated because I do have to work with my CWs (only about 10 people in my department) and roles intersect. Sometimes she gleefully says these things to me while talking about possibly removing responsibility X, Y and Z that I enjoy doing. The last time that came up I asked what her plan is to replace that work and she just repeats she is really busy and needs my help (which is a whole different issue because I actually don’t have enough work despite expressing as much). Other times these comments are said after she spots me talking with a coworker and she gets all nervous about if I am doing X and making sure I am not doing X (which I’m not, I’m just asking how their event the previous night went, or something else equally mundane). I also know she’s said these same comments to CWs.

    I’m probably being overly sensitive, but it does come across to me that she’s not really viewing me as a person in those instance, but more of a thing she can hoard over everyone else because she’s the VP even if that’s not her intent. She has the potential to be reasonable so I think saying something could get her to stop. I also feel that at times it adversely affects me career-wise because of missed opportunities; there is only one that I know off the top of my head, but still if I could try and reframe it in her mind it might help on that front too.

    Any wording or phrasing advice? Thanks!

    1. Temperance*

      Are the duties that she’s taking away from you more interesting work that might help you move out of your admin support role, or are they more admin work? It would be easier to give you advice if you listed the duties that she’s taken away from you.

      You aren’t being sensitive, but I would probably encourage you to reframe your thinking from her “not seeing you as a person but as a thing”. It’s a common problem for good admins that their bosses like having good admins around, so they do things that will keep them from getting promoted.

      1. Sally Sparrow*

        I believe so; but, it gets a bit dicey because I haven’t been able to stick with any project long-term. Again not concerned about work quality because I’ve moved from temp to full-time to a promotion for a higher admin title in the 2 years I’ve been at my job. In my view, the things she has mentioned taking off my plate are higher level responsibilities that are great skills to keep developing (leading a teapot coloring project; overseeing the admin side of a teapot counting project; and supporting the teapot acquisition efforts from different vendors), and the things she wants to replace them with seem to be “I need you to be able to jump the nanosecond I need a meeting scheduled.”

        When she asked me what I am least interested in or would like to offload (we are hiring another admin), I mentioned offloading the meeting scheduling and she insisted that was the bulk of her work. So if we did that then I wouldn’t be working with her.

    2. N Twello*

      Yikes. I agree with you that she seems to be treating you like a thing. You should start keeping a journal: writing down exact quotes, context, date and time. Also, send home all emails that have questionable language or sentiments. You might even want to get her to put some of this in writing, by sending her an email asking for a clarification of some of it.

      Even if you never use that material, it will help you to evaluate what’s going on. Eventually, you might want to go to HR or the CEO and present your case. Try to be factual and unemotional, and have a clear idea of what you want to achieve (change her behavior? transfer? severance package?). I don’t think the company would want their VPs to be treating employees like that.

      In the meantime, ick. That sort of demeaning treatment at work takes its toll on confidence and self-esteem. Try to remind yourself that she’s out of line and make sure you’re getting support elsewhere. I would seriously consider changing jobs… despite your best efforts, this sort of treatment can do lasting damage.

      1. Sally Sparrow*

        The mid-term plan is to start job hunting in the next year or two, depending on how life enfolds between then. That is partially because of growth opportunities and partially because you can’t fix crazy. But it gives me a good 4-5 years at this job and should be able to try and get me out of admin work.

        However, she’s not so unreasonable that I do think she would realize what she is doing if presented in a nice non-adversarial/confrontational way. For instance there have been times where she’s said X is a top priority and then 2 minutes later has said Y is a top priority, and when I ask her which to prioritize she stops realizes she’s just contradicted herself, laughs and then tells me which one she really wants.

        It’s difficult because on one hand I appreciate that she doesn’t want me to be overwhelmed, but on the other hand I know I can do more when everyone around me is saying how they are so busy and I’m sitting her twiddling my thumbs.

        1. Binky*

          I think these may be a couple different but related issues: the possessive language; the lack of work; and your desire to advance in your career out of your admin position. I’d deal with them separately.

          On the possessiveness thing – I’d definitely do it “in the moment” when she’s making a remark. Can you say something sort of jokey like “hey boss, you’re starting to sound like a dragon talking about its hoard, nice to know you think I’m real shiny. In all seriousness, it’s great that you value my help so highly, but I’d appreciate if you would try hoarding me a bit less. I do need to work with the other CWs on tasks __, as you know, and frankly I enjoy keeping up to date on how things are going in the office.”

          On your thumb twiddling, can you spend a couple of weeks being ostentatiously on top of her stuff and figuring out exactly how much time it’s taking you to do? Then after those weeks are over, schedule a one-on-one. Start by making sure she’s happy with your performance. Then you can present the issue as “From what you said, you’re comfortable with my work quality and responsiveness on arranging your schedule, and admin tasks A and B. Getting those done is only taking me 25 hours a week, and I’m finding myself at loose ends. I’d love to help out the department and expand my responsibilities to include more [ ] type work, like tasks C or D. Would it be possible for me to start expanding my role by taking on one new task, like [whatever task you think would be interesting but not too big of a stretch time-wise], and then we could reconvene in a month to discuss if things are working out and if it might make sense to add anything else to my plate?

          As for the concern that you’re missing out on career growth opportunities, I think that’s a discussion you need to have during a formal review session. It sounds like you’d actually like to be promoted out of your admin position, so I think I’d address that by expressing your growth hopes and then asking her for feedback/assistance in achieving your goals. Just keep in mind that what you want and what she wants are pretty diametrically opposed on this point – so tread lightly. From what you say, she sounds reasonable and should come around to helping you take that next step, but if she doesn’t, I think your best bet is to not push too hard and start looking for a new job that will put you on the career path you’re looking for.

          Good luck!

    3. Jessi*

      If you take away x, y and z you will be taking away all of my favourite work! Of course if you take away all of the stuff I love, you’ll be interviewing for a new admin!

  133. Be the Change*

    On a different topic — most people are familiar with the “Five Love Languages” in personal life. I’m wondering if there is an analogue for professional life? Public recognition, private recognition, money, gifts…..? Something that I could use to explore what people would actually appreciate?

    (Please don’t tell me, just give more money and more time off. I get that; we’ve had that sermon here more than a few times. And I’m very VERY limited in what I can do that way.)

    1. mf*

      I think people definitely have different recognition/appreciation styles. For example, my company does a lot of public recognition and gifts (flowers, gift cards, calling out your name in meetings) but that’s not my style at all. Money is always appreciated but beyond that, all I really want is a nice, genuine note or email that expresses thanks or recognition. :(

      I think the best and maybe only way to do this right is to talk to your people about it and just ask them what forms of recognition they find most meaningful.

  134. blergarg*

    ugh guys I think I really messed up, and I’m really stressed out.

    I have a colleague who gives me anxiety. Like triggers memories of my abusive mom levels of anxiety. When we work closely together, I panic. Last week, I shut down and had a mild panic attack before our phone meeting.

    The next week, she broached the topic of how I was doing, and I started to admit to her that I had anxiety, that sometimes her language and tone triggered me, and that this probably came from my own experience with trauma. I told her that I was working through it and didn’t want her to stop contributing what she does, but that she could be more constructive in conversation. She acknowledged she could be abrasive, and that she is working on it.

    We got interrupted, and the conversation stopped there. I asked if she wanted to pick up again a day later, and she did. This time, she seemed annoyed. She said she was a little put off that she stumbled upon that information by asking me how I was doing, and that I didn’t really have a clear outcome/goal in that conversation. She said she wasn’t sure what the extent of it was, and if this had been a build-up over time, and whether I was holding it all in. I clarified that I’ve been able to talk to her when I think that I’m taking stances that offend her (disagreeing on work related things, which I now realize shouldn’t offend her at all). She said she wanted direct feedback when this sort of thing happened, and I said I would give it to her, now that I know she’s open to feedback.

    We ended on a superficially positive note – I asked if she was still put off, she said she wasn’t because we were constructive. But I worry that I have ruined something. She didn’t seem thrilled.

    I am reeling, and have been since then. I talked to my co-worker about how she triggers my anxiety. I don’t know that that’s a professional conversation. If I could do it again, I’d ideally say, ‘When you do x, y, and z, you’re affecting me in such and such way’, but when she brought it up, I just couldn’t do it that way. If I could do it again, I wouldn’t have said anything to her. Now I worry that I come off as the delicate, anxious flower.

    1. GarlicMicrowaver*

      Sorry if this is intrusive, but I’m not sure I fully understand how or why this co-worker triggers your anxiety to such a specific degree. I think it would be helpful context, and at this point, she has a right to know. From your perspective, you’re struggling. From hers, she’s attacked and singled-out. So, is it JUST her abrasive tone that reminds you of your upbringing? Is it something else that may not be so obvious? Have you not encountered others since childhood that use a similar tone and trigger your anxiety?

      I think, if you’re willing, providing us with examples of specific dialogue from her and instances in which she uses this tone would help us to better guide you. While a person is who he/she is to an extent, it is possible they are carrying a tone that may come across as abrasive IN THE GENERAL OFFICE SETTING. On the other hand, she is not resposible for allaying panic brought about by childhood trauma. (I mean that in the most respectful way possible.)

      I’d take these steps:
      1. Seriously consider raising this with your therapist, if you have one.
      2. Get to the root of this coworker’s specific actions and how they connect to your past.
      3. Remove that root and assess her tone and how it “can come across in general”
      4. Speak to your co-worker, but leave your trauma out of it. It’s really not her business and you should not feel the need to justify why someone else’s behavior is crass/distracting/ what have you.

      1. blergarg*

        Yeah that’s a good point, and we talked about examples. She gets visibly angry when people disagree with her sometimes, and she agreed she can be abrasive, and that others have told her that too.

        And agreed, it’s not her job to deal with my trauma, which is why I am horrified I brought it up.

        Given that I have alraedy taken action, and mentioned my childhood trauma, I am wondering how to best proceed. I am thinking of reigning it in, going about my usual business the way I typically do, and pointing out problematic behavior when it comes up, to her, in terms of ‘this word choice/tone is aggressive/discouraging’.

        1. fposte*

          I agree with the going about your business part. I’d think a little longer about the “pointing out problematic behavior,” or at least the framing; you’re describing it as if you’re pointing out an error she’s making, and I think that’s both incorrect and unlikely to get the result you want. You’re just asking her to try doing something a different way because it works better for you and she’s been on board with doing so.

          1. blergarg*

            No, she is making an error. She’s getting visibly angry with people disagreeing with her. I’m not the only one who’s said this apparently. I focused on my anxiety about bringing up my past, but that doesn’t change the fact that her behavior is problematic.

            1. blergarg*

              And by that I mean, it’s not okay to get angry at people disagreeing with you. You *have* to be able to disagree respectfully, without alienating people.

            2. fposte*

              And if you’re her manager, you can reprove her for problematic behavior. You’re not her manager.

              1. blergarg*

                Anyone can point out problematic behavior to a colleague if it’s directly affecting them, especially if it’s problematic behavior. The question is how.

                1. fposte*

                  Sure, anyone can do anything. I just don’t see this going the way you want if you do.

                  I’m not meaning to dismiss your right to say something, but you’re already feeling uncomfortable about your previous discussion and the fact that she’s not thrilled. And I think this is really overlaid with other stuff, as witness your opening post, in a way that makes it hard to disentangle “this upsets me” with “I get to tell her she’s doing this wrong,” and even at the best of times telling a co-worker she’s talking to you wrong has a high likelihood of adding tension to a situation. I think your best outcomes are either going to treat it less as a corrective than the negotiation your co-worker seemed open to or to consider it a problem that she could benefit by getting coaching from your manager on and to loop your manager in accordingly.

        2. Bend & Snap*

          Well, getting visibly angry at work isn’t really cool, even without childhood trauma.

          1. Bend & Snap*

            I mean–not cool of your coworker.

            I have PTSD from my marriage and can get triggered at work, but the underlying issue is unacceptable behavior by colleagues, not that I’m triggered.

              1. GarlicMicrowaver*

                I agree and wasn’t trying to dismiss that by any means. I think you should address the behavior, just in a way that works toward your benefit and paints you in the best light possible.

    2. N Twello*

      I like your construction: ‘When you do x, y, and z, you’re affecting me in such and such way’. If I were you I’d make sure I have that construction worked out so I can pull it out next time this comes up. If she ever says that that’s not what you said before, just say, “That’s what I meant. You caught me off guard and I expressed myself poorly, perhaps, but the bottom line is, ‘When you do x, y, and z, you’re affecting me in such and such way’.”

      It sounds like you’re putting too much of the blame on yourself. If she is behaving inappropriately and it’s affecting your work, then you have a right not just to raise it with her, but to go to your manager and/or HR about her behavior. You shouldn’t explain why you’re sensitive to her behavior — don’t bring up PTSD or past abuse. That just makes you the issue, not her. We all have reasons why certain behaviors are triggers and others aren’t; the only pertinent issue is whether her behavior is inappropriate.

      When discussing things like this, I think the key is not to fall into the trap of explaining too much. Just repeat ‘When you do x, y, and z, you’re affecting me in such and such way’ over and over, whether you’re talking to her or to HR/your manager.

      1. fposte*

        I do think it might be worth going to the manager if it continues to be an issue, and I agree that the PTSD is a distraction here. However, whether it’s manager-reproves-her or manager-suggests-ways-for-you-to-deal will depend specifically on the behavior (“visibly angry” can mean various things, for instance), so it’s good to be prepared for both.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      It’s a really good sign that she’s open to feedback. All of what she’s saying is pretty reasonable. Not only that, but all of what she’s saying is showing that’s she’s PROCESSING what you said actively. And yeah–I wouldn’t be thrilled to know I cause one of my coworkers panic attacks, but that’s because of being associated with a horrible person and not because of the coworker. (And the idea if she had known sooner, she could have done things to make things easier on you.) She doesn’t think of you as a delicate flower; all of her questions are basically making sure that she does what she can to help the awkward situation. It’s not pandering, it’s consideration.

      You may also be more sensitive to her reactions because she reminds you of your mother, meaning they seem more extreme than they are. With time, that should lessen. You’re already seeing some huge changes in that you figured out she wouldn’t be annoyed about the disagreement AND coming forward about how you unconsciously react to her.

      Maybe it didn’t come out in the best way, but both of you handled it as well as possible during that situation. Your coworker is definitely not your mom, though: she may be more expressive, but she reacted as a reasonable person would and asked reasonable questions, perhaps even better than many people would. You are safe with her, and I hope with time that your anxiety will understand this. Thank her for processing what you said so well despite it being so awkward and for offering to work with direct feedback. Then when something comes up that she can improve on, tell her; constantly talking about it won’t help, but giving her actionable things when necessary will.

      I’m sorry you went through all this, but it’s going to be okay.

      1. blergarg*

        Thank you for your perspective. This was really great to read. I agree, I was really relieved when she responded positively to my feedback even though it was unideally presented.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          You’re welcome! It sounds like you have a wonderful coworker and that you should keep her.

  135. Academic librarian dept head*

    Just had my annual review. It went fine considering there is very little money for raises and the exceeds expectations is considered an A. Can anyone give me “norms” for this situation.
    I am a dept. head at an R1 university.
    My supervisor give me no feedback. Zero.
    I feel almost “needy”
    I am tenured. I work independently. All responses to questions or advice are met with I trust your judgement. That sounds good.
    I only hear from her when there may be a service complaint that I always quickly resolve and cc her. (she doesn’t comment on or respond to emails that is not a direct question. She is quick to respond to those)

    And she is like this with everyone. It is just her style.

    I get that she doesn’t have time given her responsibilities and number of reports to meet to just talk about funding, projects, etc.

    When I first arrived there were many, many messes that I had to clean up and did have a lot of face time. But now years later. no. And really there is no reason to have that time.

    I do think she is a straight shooter and if she had any problems with my work or management of the dept. she would let me know.

    Should I be grateful that I get to work independently, that she is the opposite of a micro-manager?
    Let this go?

    1. fposte*

      I think it is standard for managers to provide little to no feedback in academia, including libraries. That doesn’t mean no bosses provide feedback, but your boss is probably managing the way she’s been managed. If there are specific growth trajectories or kinds of guidance you’re interested in, I’d raise them with her myself.

      1. Academic librarian dept head*

        Thanks this is very helpful- if you google “my manager never talks to me” it is all negative and “uh, oh”
        My previous positions, I have had very close relations with managers for long range planning and problem solving and the occasional venting (as in “do you think the external affairs director is a misogynist asshat?”)

        1. fposte*

          I think academia is particularly prone to the “if things are going well, you won’t hear from me” kind of manager.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      I think the other factor would be that you’re already tenured. Once people get tenured, attention seems to often turn to the non-tenured folks to try to get them through the process. At least, that’s how it worked at the last library I worked it. It was the only one I’ve been at where librarians were tenured at all.

      I don’t think there’s anything wrong with reaching out to her for guidance and/or advice if you want it though.

  136. Akcipitrokulo*

    So I’m hoping to move back home over the summer – about 500 miles – and mentioned to manager at 1-1.

    Historically company haven’t really liked allowing WFH… but had been changing.

    I said that, ideally, I’d like to wfh most of time and spend 1 week a month in office.

    And … he didn’t say no :)

    He said would prefer if didn’t move obviously, but he had kind of been expecting it, and was more positive towards it than when I first mentioned possibility a year or so ago.

    I mentioned if couldn’t work it out then we’d need to work out how best to pass everything on, but he was uninterested in discussing that – we spoke about what challenges there would be with my not being in office and mentioned a couple of ideas to mitigate it.

    Very much a surface level discussion and not counting any chickens… but this makes me happy!

    1. NeverNicky*

      I was in a similar situation 3 years ago (but being in the UK it was 170 miles).
      I have been working full time remotely since then, being in the office 3 days per month.
      Cultures do change. And good employees are worth keeping.
      Good luck!

  137. Methodical Me*

    My supervisor is on leave until mid-June. Our boss is upstairs and has lately been swamped with extra work, so she doesn’t get to come downstairs as much anymore. In the meantime, we have a temp covering some of our supervisor’s duties and the rest of her tasks were parceled out to the rest of the team. So we’re all carrying a little more workload than normal.

    Our supervisor’s cube faces Meg’s desk, and often times they work together on projects that don’t really pertain to our regular duties. I’ve always assumed it’s because she’s the super-achiever. When you get a reputation for getting work done, you get more work assigned. Meg is the kind of person that tackles a task immediately upon receipt, stops work to answer an email, and generally works very hard to finish things quickly. With our supervisor gone, she’s put in some 50 hour weeks. I work differently. I am methodical and analytical and I try to work smartly. My productivity is highest when I have uninterrupted time to focus. I also have childcare that closes at 6pm so I can’t work late without advance notice.

    We get along well enough. But with our supervisor gone, she’s become our defacto supervisor. She’s reminding people to meet milestones, and in a semi-whiny tone, admonishing us to “get our work done” and when a problem arises that affects the whole team, she’s suggesting that we all pitch in to take care of a piece of the problem, adding work to our already full plates. Plus, the company is growing, so we’re already experiencing some growing pains. Her mothering is annoying me, because her reflex is to work harder, which is terribly short-sighted. Some problems that she wants to piecemeal could be accomplished more effectively if one person handles it, e.g. sorting a department email inbox. If our supervisor decides not return from her leave, I also fear that Meg will become the supervisor. :|

    I’m trying not to let her mothering annoy me, but I’m not objective enough to tell whether this is actually a problem, or I’m just annoyed. I don’t want to be the supervisor, so it’s not a jealousy thing. Any advice?

    1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      (Oh God, I just did a LinkedIn Learning session by Gretchen Rubin yesterday and I am SQUIRMING at how much of an Upholder Meg is. And now I have the Four Tendencies quiz open, and apparently my dominant is Questioner. Anyway.)

      So, my answer to your end question is…it’s both. It is a little bit of a BEC situation, because she is asking you to get stuff done that might need to get done. But also, you’re not totally off-base either – Meg just sounds really exhausting to work with, because she sounds like she assumes everyone works the same way she does. However, I actually feel bad for her – because I think that she’s also a little overwhelmed and has just decided that “teamwork makes the dream work!” is the answer to EVERYTHING.

      I’m just curious…has anyone ever told Meg that maybe the way she does things doesn’t make sense sometimes, or offered an alternative solution? I think one tack you could take is to “solve” her direct issues for her, especially if she’s internally struggling but no one sees it because she’s a rockstar.

      So, let’s say you have X, Y, and Z tasks that can be split up without impacting efficiency. With the mailbox, someone (heck, even you) can say, “Well, I can take this on by myself, but can I split off X across the team instead, since I might not be able to get to that?” First of all, she’s not your actual boss (that’s the lady upstairs who’s drowning in her own paperwork), and second of all, you still can explain to your boss that you can’t do everything. (Yes, you have the same number of hours in the day as Beyonce. Beyonce also has a ton of help.)

  138. Reasonable conversation:*

    (Subtitle) A Success Story
    Earlier this week, my boss made a passing joke that made me very uncomfortable. Later on, I went to his office and told him that I thought the joke had been inappropriate and insulting. He apologized and everything is normal now again. I was so nervous to say anything at all, but I knew I would be uneasy. I’m glad I did

    1. Reasonable conversation:*

      I know, cool story, but my point is that awkward conversations can go well, and that it’s better to speak out if something is bothering you. I certainly felt better

  139. Teapot Translator*

    I was wondering if those who have changed careers can advise me on how they managed the change in salary. I would like at some point to change career paths, but from what I have seen on job postings, it would mean lowering my salary expectations (as I would go from having having a good number of years of experience to practically speaking none). Did you have to accept a pay cut? Were you able to negotiate a higher salary than beginners?

    1. Bibliovore*

      I did exactly this when I left a corporate position to accept an entry level public librarian position.
      Big pay cut and grad school expenses.
      No consideration was given for work in related fields or managerial experience.
      BUT
      What I didn’t realize was that due to my previous experience and transferable skills that I would be “fast-tracked” to positions of responsibility with additional pay grade jumps.

      1. Teapot Translator*

        Did you regret it or did it make you pause before making the change?

        I know money isn’t everything, but the older I get, the more I want to enjoy life.

  140. Rewarding Employees*

    I live in an area with a high minimum wage and low unemployment rate. Businesses around here are finding that it is difficult to keep employees, as employees know they can find another minimum wage job easily.

    With that said, I’m looking for ways to reward my team that don’t include additional raises (I already gave everyone a raise at the beginning of the year). I own a small cafe with 8 employees (mostly college students). Is having an employee of the month a bad idea for a group this small? What are some ways that I can reward them?

    1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      Personally, I’m not a fan of “Employee of the Month”.

      Can you give them paid time off? Even just a day or two? Or treat them to lunch/dinner? (As a college kid, I’d have killed for free food.)

    2. Schnoodle*

      EE of the month type awards have been shown in research to actually lower overall moral and productivity. Essentially, no matter who you pick, half will think THEY deserved it instead, the other half’s reaction would be “SHE got it, out of all people, HER?” and so then the ones who were great but feel like they should have gotten it will stop working as hard since in their mind working less gets you awarded.

      It’s terrible all around.

      What employees like though are genuine compliments of their work, more autonomy, time off.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        Employee of the month can also lead to “I’m not getting an award for my work. I’m getting an award because she has to give it to someone and this month it’s my turn.”

        OP, have you asked your employees what kind of recognition is meaningful to them? This is an aspect where people have such differing opinions that getting it right really does mean knowing your people.

    3. Irene Adler*

      Good for you for wanting to recognize good work.
      Not one for Employee of the Month stuff.
      Find ways to make their jobs meaningful. Accommodate schedule changes to allow employees to attend to personal stuff/school and the like. Allow autonomy where you can. Remove useless, degrading rules. Acknowledge when an employee goes above and beyond to please customers.

  141. Anon for this*

    Yesterday I was written up and reprimanded for being happy about the royal baby and the two upcoming weddings. We are not British but my mom died unexpectedly on February 23. Earlier this week there was a robbery of the bank in our building and on Monday (the 2 year anniversary of mom’s death) 10 people were killed by a guy driving a van not far from where I work. I was trying to focus on happy things. My boss is the head of HR. He thinks the royals are stupid. He is the head of HR and answers directly to the CEO. I have no one to go to about this. Just needed to vent thanks.

    1. Anon for this*

      That should read: the 2 MONTH anniversary of my mom’s death. On Monday it was 2 months.

    3. CatCat*

      What the actual f. Your boss is a loon. I just am baffled as to what there is to reprimand here. What’s next? Reprimanding you because he doesn’t like your favorite cereal?

      I’m sorry for what you have gone through and that your boss is a jerk.

    4. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      You were written up for that?! That is asinine. I’m sorry you are working for such a jerk. :(

    5. The Gardener*

      I’m sorry for your loss.

      Your boss is an idiot.

      I’m surprised he reports directly to the CEO and has no other oversight. That seems like it is asking for trouble.

    6. ANon.*

      Any chance you can push back on this and make him rethink it?

      “Hey, Boss. I was thinking about the write up from yesterday, and I’m still a bit confused. I want to make sure I fully understand so I don’t make the same mistake. What exactly was the issue?” Then wait for him to respond and repeat it back to him: “Ok, so you’re saying that in the future, I shouldn’t focus on positive things?” or “Ok, so discussing the royals is prohibited?”

      Hopefully making him talk through his logic will make him realize how stupid it is.

    7. Iris Eyes*

      Written up?! Did you throw a baby shower for them in your cubicle or something? Did you wear an elaborate hat or switch your phone ringer to God Save the Queen?

    8. Thlayli*

      What were you doing to demonstrate your happiness? Did he write you up for smiling, or for talking about it or what?

    9. Francis*

      10 people were killed in a car accident? That is a huge incident. I’m sorry for the loss of your mom.

      1. curly sue*

        There was a major vehicular assault (not an accident) earlier this week – I’m assuming that’s the incident she means. Anon, I’m so sorry you’re being faced with such a ridiculous situation when you have so much else on your plate.

      2. Middle School Teacher*

        It wasn’t a car accident. If the OP is in Toronto (as I’m thinking they are), it was a deliberate attack. It’s been a tough time for vehicle incidents in Canada over the last month :(

        1. Middle School Teacher*

          Oops, should have refreshed first. But yes, as curly sue says, it was a vehicular attack. Very scary.

    10. Totally Minnie*

      OP, I’m so sorry for the loss of your mom.

      Talking about current events is such a weird thing to get written up for. I get that you’re not British and your boss doesn’t care about the royal family, but what specific rule did you break that caused the write-up? Is he claiming that your work productivity is lacking because you’re talking too much? Or is it just that he was annoyed and misery loves company?

      In any case, if you found something that makes you feel happy during a disastrous time, I think that’s great. Just don’t mention it in front of your kill-joy boss anymore.

    11. Bluenoser two*

      Fellow Canuck, but not from your province. We’re all thinking about your city Down East. I’m also really sorry about your mom. Your boss is a jerk, but I hope things get better soon.

  142. Me--Blargh*

    Updates:

    –The law office where they hardly asked any questions has not contacted me.
    –Another office did finally get around to sending a rejection. But it was a nice rejection.
    –I’ve not heard from the job in StL re any in-person interview, but she did say they were taking their time because they wanted a really good fit.
    –I got an email from the government hiring manager in Atl. that they’re reviewing my application. Gulp. I’m quite sure they’ll decide they don’t want a resister who isn’t happy with the way they handled recent events, LOL. I did say in my cover that “[Issue] is increasing [event severity]. I want to offer my skills toward strengthening future [agency] response.”I hope they read “I think we can make this better,” rather than “You suck and I want to fix you.” (Of course, the big problems are coming from the top and not the bottom.)

    I’m afraid of getting stuck somewhere I hate again, but even a temporary not-to-exceed-two-years-but-extension-possible (depending on workload and funding) job at a government agency, doing exactly the kind of work I want to do, could be a good launching pad, much better than StL. Plus, the pay is good. Though I seriously doubt anything will happen. I also have no idea if there are any benefits–it didn’t say. I know very little about government contracts or anything like that. But it would be a decent resume item, much better than typist for a law firm in Bumblef*ck Nowhere.

    I’m going to skip any job hunting activity for the rest of the day. Literally all I can think about is seeing Infinity War on Sunday!!

    1. Yolo*

      I really don’t think it’s a good idea to tell someone you don’t like how their organization handled something when you a) really want a job and b) weren’t present for the event itself and therefore don’t know what actually was happening. Not just because you’ll look like a “resister” but also you may be substantially less informed than you think from the outside.

      1. Me--Blargh*

        I didn’t tell them that. At all. But I’ve made no attempt to hide online how I feel about the lack of effort (and funding, which is probably where the issues originate) from the current administration.

        My failure to get any job may be from that or more likely, lack of experience, but I will not stop speaking out against racist bullshit. I’m not even sure I would want it. As I said, it means moving even deeper into an area of the country I’m not wild about living in. Should I get an interview, I would just say the same thing I said in my cover letter, because it’s true.

      1. Me--Blargh*

        Thank you. As I was writing my cover letter, I thought, wait, what if they check me out and see my acrimonious posts about upper level officials? Well, I can certainly do the work without bringing those feelings into the workplace, so I’ll just keep it about their mission. Also, I don’t talk about work on social media.

        Either that or the StL job would do, since I’m really beginning to doubt I can find anything here (not because of social media, just that there isn’t much of anything). Trying to let go and trust the universe, to whom I’ve appealed, to do the right thing.

  143. marjae*

    I am a junior in college and I recently applied for a summer job at a local museum. I’d really like the job, as it’s related to my field of study (History), and I just need the money. I do currently work but I get awful hours- I had 9 hours in the entirety of April, so it’s lucky that I get a little help from my parents and had savings. I’ve also applied for other positions in a more retail type position. There’s one issue with this job, however. I volunteer at an organization 3 days of the month (consecutively) in June, July, and August. With a more retail type job, or a job with the M-F schedule, it wouldn’t be such a big deal, but at this job the week runs from Wednesday to Sunday, meaning I’d miss half a week of work each time. I can’t not volunteer, as volunteering makes me eligible to receive $2000 dollars in scholarship money. I’ve received the scholarship for the past three years, so I feel fairly confident that I will receive it again. Should I get an interview, should I bring this up during the interview, or once they offer me the job? I would completely understand if this volunteer obligation makes me unsuitable for the position, and I don’t want to blindside them with it if I am hired. Help?

    1. BasicQuestions*

      I work a lot with students and not having consistent schedules or them having to make up hours due to being away for a conference or a competition or whathaveyou is normal. I think the museum will understand this, especially because it is a summer-only position. That’s practically an advertisement for students only.

      Bring it up when they offer. I don’t think they’ll rescind the offer.

  144. Kramerica Industries*

    I have a question about when an issue is my fault for overreacting or my coworker’s fault for behaviour.

    My team is divided into teapot design and teapot making. While working with him as a teapot maker, he would frequently make comments about how no one cares about teapots or how it’s wasting his time. He would also try to pass work onto me and continue with the negativity. It got so bad, I ended up getting depressed about coming into work and having to deal with someone who feels the need to step on my strengths and interests.

    He is now on the teapot design team. I found out that he said to our new teapot maker that he “paid his dues by putting up with that waste of time”. This makes me angry because I feel like he’s found a new victim to project his negativity onto in order to boost his ego. My question is…do I have any standing to bring this to my manager (I’ve already made several complaints over the past few months)? Or is my anxiety/depression about his attitude something I should deal with personally?

    1. dr_silverware*

      He sounds like a real jerk. I don’t think you’re overreacting by being pissed. At least I think I’d reassure the new teapot maker that he says those kinds of things about teapot making a lot, and you’re sorry, but that you certainly don’t think that working in teapot making is just paying dues.

  145. HappyAlum*

    Not a question, but for all the horrible career center stories we hear thought it’d be fun to share a good one!

    I was talking to a career counselor from my alma mater and answer my question about looking for a job while employed said “a great place to look is this blog called Ask A Manager” my appointment then had a lovely tangent about how great this blog is and how she’s trying to get some copies of the book for the career center to loan out.

    1. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

      That’s awesome! I worked at a derivative of the career center at my university that was specifically for the College of Business. I worked with social media to some extent, and I tried to include AAM posts whenever possible.
      While college career centers can (and often do) give out awful, dated, and bizarre advice, there are some good ones.

  146. Laura*

    Anyone have advice for me?
    I’m in my first year as a project manager with a construction industry material distributor and I was promoted from an unrelated part of the company (AR)
    I’m pretty much unqualified for my job and have pretty much trained myself. I basically work by myself since my coworker has been out sick 4 out of the last 6 weeks. So everyone says I’m doing great, but then when a problem comes up, they are ccing my boss’s boss and removing me from the projects I’ve been working on for months.

    It’s really kindof demoralizing and stressful because I feel like when something comes up I have to handle it on my own to avoid fallout on my reputation which is the exact opposite of how this really needs to work.

    Doing well at this is critical to my next few years and basically my life at the moment. I feel like there is nobody to talk to that has any useful perspective and I just want to blow off steam and can’t.

    1. Laura*

      To clarify, I have one local coworker and a supervisor and other PMs in another office in another city.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Sitting on the opposite side of the project from you, as an engineering PM for an EPC company, I would say the situation your in isn’t completely unusual as many of our distributors do have inexperienced PMs. But, on some contracts, this has caused me a lot of problems, like when a PM had NO IDEA when they would be able to provide us with deliverables, and the answer is always next week, then the next week, etc.

      I think you need to proactively do a lessons learned for the projects that you were pulled from, on your own time perhaps. You can also look at projects that you stayed on throughout and see what was different on those. Look at “PM triangle” of cost, schedule, and quality, and see where the problems were. Did a customer or a sub-supplier complain? What was the complaint related to? Are these internal complaints? What could you have done differently (usually communication).

      Take heart, though. We have had very skilled and experienced PMs pulled from high profile projects because they got sideways with a client, so keep in mind you may not have done anything wrong, either, but it can be in the company’s interest to get a new face in front of the client for relationship reasons.

      You can also seek out your own training. There are tons of free resources, but you could join pmi.org and work towards certification. They have local chapters where you could network with PMs from other companies and industries and find folks you can discuss these situations with.

  147. When Companies Become Cult-Like*

    Regular poster going anon for this. I want to talk about companies where the culture feels cult-like, how to spot them, how to avoid them, and what to do if you find yourself working for one.

    These are the kinds of things that make a company seem cult-like to me. Feel free to comment and add more.

    – Unusual or inappropriate amount of interest in employees’ personal lives outside of work. Do they pressure you into being social media friends with everyone? Telling them more than you want to about your family, relationships, friends, hobbies, religion, politics, and so on? Do they act offended or even penalize you professionally for declining to share more than you want to?

    – Trying to control the way employees talk about the company outside of work. Offering incentives and disincentives for what you say about the company in your own personal time, off the clock, and going out of their way to find out about it.

    – Forced friendships with co-workers. Requiring you to socialize with certain co-workers outside of work, possibly threatening to terminate or demote you if you decline.

    – Discouraging critical thinking. (Asking questions or suggesting a different point of view is considered “being negative” and may adversely affect you professionally).

    – Abnormal emphasis on “loyalty” and basing promotions and raises on that (wearing company apparel outside of work, using your personal social media accounts to advertise them, never expressing any disagreement or criticism).

    – Punishing people for leaving – stalking, harassment, refusing to give references or giving dishonestly bad ones (lying about what you did and how you performed), slandering ex-employees in their professional communities, etc.

    I think this kind of thing is becoming more common. It’s the evil side of the trends towards blurring work and personal boundaries and expecting employees to put in more hours in exchange for perks like meals and fun extra things.

    I left a company like that. I was stalked for years after leaving. I’m still trying to pull together some references so that I can find a new job, and I’m trying to carefully screen for that type of environment in other companies.

    What would be some good ways to find a company that does a good job of respecting employees’ privacy and doesn’t cross the kinds of lines mentioned above?

    1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Oof, I don’t blame you for wanting to be careful! I really like Glassdoor, but the only drawback is some smaller companies don’t have a presence there.

      1. W.C.B.C.L.*

        Yeah, that’s a good idea. This was actually a midsize to large company, and one with a lot of name recognition. There are a few Glassdoor reviews that point out similar things about the culture, but there are also a lot of (fake?) positive ones. I’ve learned that on Glassdoor, the negative reviews are often the most informative because the positive ones aren’t necessarily honest or voluntary.

    2. ABK*

      You can ask questions in the interview about company sponsored events, happy hours, hours people work, or look around the office and try to spot the ping pong table and see if people are legit working or chatting a lot. How old are the executives, sr management and employees? In general, I think a more traditional, stuffy looking office won’t be this cultish. Also not as much fun, though. Also, if it’s a big company each office might have a different vibe. My suburban office is way quieter than the downtown office. THey have tons of fun after hours with coworkers while my office is cleared out at 4pm because everyone has kids.

  148. Gingerbread*

    I posted a question earlier using a different name, but I have a second question. I own a small business. It is profitable, but I am bored. I quit my job where I was working 80+ hours a week, always facing new challenges and learning new things to now working maybe 20 hours a week (I have systems in place where I have trained and trust my employees to run my business as I want them to). I have come to realize that I enjoy learning and staying busy. If I were to go back into the job market, how would I address the year that I was out running my business? I plan on keeping my business — do you think that will be a big issue for employers? In the end, my business would be my priority, and I’m sure employers would assume that given my money was invested into this business.

    2. Combinatorialist*

      Do you have skills you can freelance? That might offer more flexibility to keep running your business as you want to. I think many employers won’t be thrilled at you continuing to run a business for 20 hours a week.

  149. TheVet*

    I don’t post often, but I read use a lot of tips given here.

    I landed an amazing role that pays just over 100k/yr and I still can’t believe it’s real. I’m still scared to tell anyone in my personal life (the organization is one a lot of people want to work for) even though I’ve given notice, filled out the new employee info, bought a serious bag, new shoes and picked up a few new suits and had them altered.

    I can’t wait to start! I’ve never made this much money in my life or had so much responsibility. I hope to never be a boss featured in one of the letters posted here.

        1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

          Fist Name Last Name – Thank You
          example: Disney Princess – Thank You
          or
          Position – Thank You
          example: Llama Wrangler – Thank You

          I suppose you could combine the two, but I think that’s cumbersome in an inbox.

    3. HannahS*

      Erm it might be silly, but I usually just put “Thanks” or “Thank you” or “Our appreciation” if I’m writing on behalf of a group.

    4. H.C.*

      “Thank you for [whatever that warranted it]” – it adds enough specificity so the recipient should have an idea from just looking at subject line (if it’s a job interview, I would include time of day too e.g. “Thank you for interviewing me yesterday afternoon” since they may have multiple interviews going on.)

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      If it’s for an interview, I usually write, “This morning’s meeting” in the subject line. I don’t like “Thank you” as a subject, but I don’t think negatively of people who use it. It’s kind of like sending cards that say “Thank You” on the front. I don’t like that either. :) Write out your thanks, don’t let the card do it for you! (Note: this is a private thought that I have never shared with any “offenders” because it’s really not a big deal.)

    6. Triple Anon*

      It depends on the tone and the content. If it’s a super short email, it could be:

      Subject: Thank you!

      I really appreciated our meeting earlier today. You gave me some great advice, which I will definitely put to use. Have a good weekend and keep in touch!

      If it’s longer, I’d make the subject more about the thing you’re thanking the person for.

      Subject: Toaster Project

      Jane,

      Thank you so much for sharing your insights on our toaster project! We all really appreciate that you took the time to review our plans and recommend some changes. Blah blah blah . . .

      You get the idea. :-)

  151. Grayson*

    I’m currently an ISD as a consultant, and I’m looking to shift careers to consulting in zebra based standup comedy. Based on the advice from Alison and the forum I’ve conducted 4 information interviews, written thank you notes and finally have a direction. It looks like one of the best things to do is write 3-4 pieces on the subject I’m interested in, and shop them around to get published.

    My current frustration is that I was accepted to a standup comedy certificate program in October ’17, but due to things beyond my power, the approval process through the Department of Veterans Affairs has been stalled. This is a step on my way to my career pivot, and I get monthly updates of “I know this is frustrating, but we still don’t have approval.” (Everything else has been approved at the university.) So I wrote a strongly worded but professional letter expressing my displeasure, and received a thank you from the graduate advisor thanking me, and providing reassurance.

    So. Frustrated. *head desk*

  152. Lou*

    Hey guys. I’m lucky to be in a stable situation but I’m trying to migrate to the other side of the world. My profession is not the easiest profession to get into at the best of times but I need a job offer in order to get a visa.

    I’ve been told that networking helps but its not like I have mutual contacts over there. Anyone got any advice for networking online in a new place? Otherwise I’m just relying on applying through online postings.

    1. Susan Sto Helit*

      It sort of depends on the industry, but twitter is a good way of networking in some fields.

  153. Marvel*

    It’s possible if not probable that no one remembers this, but I wrote into the open thread a couple of months ago (February) having just reported two of my classmates (I’m a grad student) for inappropriate sexual comments and title IX violations. I was having second thoughts and wondering if I was overreacting, but I really appreciated the encouragement and reassurance I got from everyone here. This is an update on that situation.

    The behavior improved very quickly, and the perpetrators were spoken to my the department head as well as the dean of students and informed that they were now “on notice” and further reports would lead to severe consequences. After speaking with the undergrads who were affected, who confirmed that they did not wish to launch an official investigation since the behavior had improved, I dropped it.

    Unfortunately, it also got out that I reported them, and the entire department is now aware of that fact.

    I expected that this might happen–it’s academics AND it’s a theatre department, so people talk, and I doubt it was in any way malicious–but I’m a bit annoyed that no one bothered to talk to me about it. Another grad student has informed me that the perpetrators are extremely pissed off at me for “making them look bad” to our faculty, but they’re still being perfectly polite to my face, so I’m not too bothered as long as it stays that way. It’s mostly just awkward knowing that everyone knows. Either way, it’s a single year MA degree, so I’m only here for the summer and the fall semester and then I’m gone.

    As far as I can tell, no one knows that the undergrads reported them too–before I did–except for me, the undergrads in question, and the people we reported it to. I’m not about to tell anyone, though. I had four years here as an undergrad to build up my reputation and form relationships with the faculty, and I’m known for being extremely ethical and competent and won several awards during that time, so I’m pretty much untouchable. Any attempts to retaliate against me or smear my reputation in turn will just make THEM look bad. The undergrads in question are sophomores and don’t have the kind of leverage that I do, and a couple of pissed off PhD students could make life very, very difficult for them. I think the ideal outcome here is that the two of them blame me for it and never find out that there’s anyone else to blame.

    So, technically, I guess I got what I wanted–the behavior stopped. But I wish anonymous reports would actually remain anonymous, because not everyone has the kind of shielding that I do.

    1. TeapotAdvocate*

      I take your point about vulnerable people whistleblowing: could you notify the Department or Dean that your complaint was not kept confidential and that you have concerns about confidentiality practices at the institution?

      1. Marvel*

        Well, the problem is that I don’t think it was actually a breach of confidentiality by anyone I reported it to–I think the undergrads probably mentioned it to someone they shouldn’t have, thinking that it was a good thing. “Well, Marvel is taking it to the higher ups, so I guess we don’t have to worry about it too much anymore.” That sort of thing. And then that person mentioned it to other people, and then…

        I knew it was gonna get out. I’m just surprised that it got out MONTHS ago and no one’s mentioned it to me in that time.

      2. HannahS*

        Yeah, that’s so frustrating. It’s a serious problem; people won’t report if they feel if they won’t be kept anonymous. I’m glad you’re out of there soon.

    2. Combinatorialist*

      I so feel you. I was in this situation a few years ago — PhD student reporting sexual harassment on the behalf of the younger graduate students, who also reported. My involvement was well-known — the others were not, and I was heavily penalized by my peers who were talking about me behind my back and what not. I would really encourage you to go talk to a counselor about your feelings, at least for a little bit. I ended up numbing my feelings and still feel the after effects 3 years later because I didn’t acknowledge I had a lot of feelings and process them in a healthy way. It is really frustrating to know you did the right thing but face backlash for it.

      But good for you for doing the right thing even when it isn’t easy.

  154. ah!!!*

    Anyone want to share stories about mistakes at work that felt like the end of the world but weren’t?

    It’s the busiest season of the year for my industry, and I’m still fairly new (started in February). For the most part, I’ve been adjusting well, but it’s a demanding job. This week has been particularly stressful because my boss has three remote clients in town, and I’ve been managing their itineraries in addition to my other duties. I’m talking 20 hours of OT this week busy. One of our remote clients (the nicest person in the WORLD) was set to meet with one of our local clients yesterday – only the local client’s assistant messed up his calendar, and he wasn’t there when the remote client arrived at his office.

    It’s largely the other assistant’s fault, but tbh, I’ve had issues with this assistant before (plus the assistant recently gave notice so I’m guessing he’s especially laissez faire about things), and I wasn’t as diligent as I should have been when confirming. I was able to do some damage control and the two connected on the phone, local client apologized for the scheduling faux paus, and they agreed to set a Skype. My boss is understandably peeved, but he’s been pretty nice to me about it.

    I just can’t stop obsessing over how bad I feel for the remote client. She’s had a super busy trip, is jet lagged, and later told us that the local client’s assistant was really rude to her rather than apologetic. She told me there are worse things in the world and thanked me for all the work I’ve done, but I can’t think thinking about it.

    1. BuffaLove*

      It really sounds like that one’s on the other assistant! If you’re working 20 hours’ worth of OT (which is a ton!), you obviously don’t have time to triple-check every appointment. Try to breathe and let yourself move on. Maybe make a mental note to be extra diligent when working with people who haven’t been 100 percent reliable in the past.

      Here’s my recent “oops” story – my agency sent out a legal document with a copy/paste error that led the client to believe that they were no longer bound by an older legal order, when they very much still were. It took months for us to realize that they were no longer complying with the old document. There was lots of blame to go around – the dates in the copied section didn’t make sense, so the client should have questioned it, and it went through my boss and two attorneys, none of whom caught the mistake. Still, I felt like it was on my shoulders as the lowest person on the totem pole – I have more time and energy, so I should always catch errors like that! Anyway, I literally lost sleep over this and nearly pooped myself when I brought it to my boss, and he… did not care. Yes, there were consequences, but mistakes happen. It was definitely a learning experience for me.

  155. ALPA*

    I’m curious if there’s anyone here that used to work in fundraising and changed careers. What did you change to and why? Anyone here in fundraising who doesn’t love it?

  156. narwhale of a tale*

    I recently started a new position and one of the current interns is unbelievably hostile/rude. I rarely interact with her as she’s not in my vertical/department, but she has been downright unpleasant the few times I have needed her assassistance. I’ve also walked in on her in common areas complaining about the internship to fellow interns (whatever, we all need to whine sometimes). I’ve been operating under a “not my intern, not my problem” mindset, but two things occurred today that rankled me:
    – She’s apparently complaining to other interns that it is “f-ing ridiculous” that I am getting my own intern. I have 8 years of work experience. She’s an intern. Maybe she thinks I’m not as “senior” as I am? However, this is hearsay/through the grapevine, so I’m not sure if it’s something I can handle.
    – I needed her to correct something due to a coworker’s mistake. She has completed the task, but did not send me an update to let me know that she had received the email or that it was taken care of. Isn’t sending a quick response just… professional courtesy?

    Do I speak with her one-on-one? Do I speak with manager to make sure I’m not stepping on any toes? Or do I just leave this be?

    1. LCL*

      Speak to whoever she is supposed to report to. Sounds like she hasn’t even learned the most basic office skill, which is to not trash talk employees when others can overhear.

      1. narwhale of a tale*

        She’s been in the office for almost a year and does good work. It, unfortunately, comes along with her attitude. I’m usually not bothered by “glass half-empty” people, but I feel her negativity is starting to border on outright hostile. Like, I’m sorry you’re no longer enjoying your internship, but there’s no reason to take it out on me.

    2. fposte*

      Who manages her? I’d talk to them.

      Since you’ve overheard the first complaints, I think the second is plausible enough to mention.

      On the third, I’d just ask her to confirm when she’s completed the task and let her know that’s preferred in your office. That’s the kind of thing interns are there to learn, so I wouldn’t expect them to come in knowing it.

        1. fposte*

          That still sounds more like BEC than a legitimate objection to me, though. I have to teach a lot of new employees about loop-closing being a thing here, and they’ve often been working longer than a year when I get them. Stick to the unprofessional complaining.

    3. KR*

      I would tell her manager. “Hey, just so you know, I had these experiences with Lucinda. I think she may be struggling to adjust to working in an office based on X. I wanted to let you know so you were aware.” And then let her manager sort it out.

    4. Teapot librarian*

      Oh, I hate that lack of response. I agree that it is professional courtesy to let you know it was taken care of. I have an employee who doesn’t let me know when he’s done things that I’ve asked him to follow up on, and since I can’t trust him to have actually read my emails, it’s a lot of extra mental energy because I then have to go back to him and ask if he’s done it.

      1. narwhale of a tale*

        Exactly! She doesn’t work directly with me and this wasn’t something I was responsible for. One of our out-of-office contractors made the error and reached out to me because I could get the issue corrected. Due to the demanding nature of our client, we both knew we needed to watch the issue like a hawk. I don’t feel like I should have to explicitly tell you to follow up on something, especially when the email is marked “high priority.” Clearly, it’s a matter I care about? I think I’m just perplexed because… we’re in marketing. Excessive emails is a part of our nature, no?

        On top of this, the updated work has some typos. I get that Intern doesn’t work on behalf of our client and doesn’t care, but yeesh.

  157. BasicQuestions*

    Is it more appropriate to ask for time off (“Is it okay if I leave at 3pm on [date]?”) or to say you need time off “Hi [boss], I need to be out of the office by 3pm on [date], does that interfere with anything?”

    Asking makes me feel like a kid but I don’t want to be pushy either.

    2. De Minimis*

      I usually say something closer to your second example, “I need to be off at 3 tomorrow, I hope that’s okay.”

      It depends on the workload too, we usually are pretty slow paced in the late afternoons. If we have a lot of things going on to where my being gone might cause a problem, I’m more likely to frame it as asking to be off.

    5. Emi.*

      I don’t think the second sounds pushy at all, so that’s what I’d pick because I hate feeling like a kid at work.

    6. AnotherAlison*

      I love the second one for myself, and really almost anyone since you’re asking in advance. I might say you need to frame it more as a request if you’re a lower level or new person and it was day-of, but it sounds like you’re planning ahead anyway.

    7. BuffaLove*

      I do “I need to leave at X:00 today/tomorrow if that’s alright.” My boss has never denied me since I have a lot of free reign over my schedule and always charge the time, but I still like to frame it as a request.

    8. TiffIf*

      Honestly, I don’t even do the asking part of if it is okay or if it will interfere, I just straight up say “I going to be in a little bit late next Monday, likely no later than 10 AM.” (Exact quote from earlier this week.)

      If it is something that has come up suddenly I’ll pop my head into manager’s office and just say “something’s come up that I need to go take care of, I’ll make up the time later in the week.” or something to that effect. If it there is something I was actively working on or that someone else will need to cover for, I arrange it and give the details for coverage.

      In my job we do have certain blackout dates where we can’t take off work (we are not allowed to take off the week before or the week after a software production release), if I have a special circumstance where I will need some time off during those specific periods I would do more an ask than a statement.

      Anything requiring PTO is always a formal request for time off, but I have yet to ever be denied in this job.

  158. TeapotAdvocate*

    I’ve just got an excellent new role after a year’s career break to travel and volunteer. I know this is something people have asked about in the past, so I thought I’d share my experiences. The interview panel (4 people, including the CEO and 3 extremely senior people, one of whom is an industry celebrity) didn’t mention the career break at all throughout the entire interview, which focused entirely on my last role. They’d already taken up my references in advance, and asked me to do a hard-core in tray exercise which really tested skills in and knowledge of the field. I had addressed the career break in the covering letter, so that may have addressed some issues. It was harder preparing my competency questions after a year away, but here I am, in a much more senior role after a year of travel. Certainly not a career killer!

  159. designbot*

    had a crummy experience at work this week that I strongly suspect comes down to some pervasive low-level sexism. In a meeting with a project team, it became clear that the PM and I hadn’t been aligned on what we thought we’d be reviewing that day (I’m sure each of us thought we’d been clearer than we were), and that’s fine, that happens, but he just wouldn’t let it go. So for 30 minutes he just verbally took me to task in front of a dozen people under the guise of ‘guidance.’ His guidance often consisted of ‘ideas’ that were things I’d already pitched in previous meetings that he was not acknowledging. Anything he liked he attributed to my (junior, male) employee, and anything he didn’t like he attributed to me. It was overall a weird, weird incident of unexpected confrontation where there was supposed to be collaboration and I’m having trouble shaking it. I briefly spoke to one of the other women in the meeting to just be like hey, did that feel as weird to you as it did to me, and she agreed that it felt off but she was new to the project and thought she just didn’t have the context to know where to jump in.
    How do you guys get past it when you experience something like this? Nothing he did was so overt that he couldn’t weasel out an explanation, but my gut tells me that this was a lady thing.

    1. Argh!*

      I would take it on, not “get past it.” The sexist jerk needs to know that you noticed what happened. Besides wasting 30 minutes of everybody else’s time (multiply that by how much each person makes – it’s not a minor thing), he’s making the workplace less effective by his selective attention – negative toward you and positive toward men. The men in the room may not have thought it was a sexist thing. They may be afraid of the guy now. They may feel like nobody is safe (and that may actually be the case).

      You could say something like “Boss, I’d be happy to hear your feedback one-on-one, and we can work together on issues. You didn’t have to wait for the meeting to tell me these things.”

      The guy sounds like a flat-out jerk, though. He might be hopeless.

      1. designbot*

        I guess I’m afraid to take it on. This isn’t a fight I think I can win.
        And he’s not my boss. He’s managing a project on which I’m a consultant—he’s more like a client than a boss.

    2. Just a thought*

      Is there someone higher up in the meeting that would have your back?
      Having someone else jump in with “actually that was her idea” would be ideal, but you might have to do it yourself. My coworkers have told me that not standing up to these things, even if I don’t care, will make other people that don’t know my work have a bad perception of me. It’s not rude to jump in and tell him you already know and that those were you’re pitch ideas. He’s being rude.
      On a side note, this sucks and it happens a lot (unfortunately)

      1. designbot*

        I did point that out to him a few times—yeah, we showed you that a few months ago. Or, “the way you’re talking about it is exactly how I’m thinking of it, so it sounds like we’re pretty close to the same page.” Unfortunately I already saw bad effects of this, in that shortly afterwards my junior designer said something that implied I rolled into work when I wanted to and I had to speak pretty sharply with him to tell him not to ever assume something like that, that I was here I just often was in meetings already before he himself shows up. That negative attitude towards someone is so contagious, as you note.
        Nobody higher up is consistently in these meetings, and the added problem is that this is one of the golden boys of the firm, a Rising Star™ who can do no wrong in management’s eyes.

    3. N Twello*

      That sort of thing is sooo difficult to respond to, for lots of reasons. I don’t claim to be good at it. But here’s a thought… write out the entire conversation, including who was in the room (but don’t expect any help from witnesses). Then transform that text into a smaller list that includes the main problematic things he said.

      Next, go to your manager and say you want their advice. Explain the situation as briefly as possible (using your short list). Make the case that he was unfair and out of line, say you want to have excellent relationships with all your coworkers, say you suspect this is a sexist issue… and ask for guidance.

      This might not help you respond to the guy, but it’s a way to inform your boss it’s going on and to get them on your side (without making a complaint).

  160. Tones*

    Hi all, I seem to get conflicting advice on the effectiveness of using another offer to get a raise. I’ve been at my job for over 2 years and am doing significantly more than my job description states. I don’t mind the work, but the pay is pretty low compared to my coworkers that do other entry level positions and similar work. I’ve brought this up to my boss and grandboss and they both seem to be unable to do anything. We are undergoing a study to see if our wages are comparable to other jurisdictions but any changes won’t happen for two more years. With my boss’s blessing, I have an interview next week for a comparable position with the starting pay 10% more than I make now. I would really like to stay in my current position but I can’t continue to be underpaid by so much. Is using another offer to get a raise a really terrible idea?

    1. Amber Rose*

      It depends. If they won’t match what the new company is offering, will you stay anyway? Because that would be a waste of everyone’s time, and look poorly on you.

      You also risk burning bridges with the other company if you aren’t careful.

    3. A Person*

      I’ve never had a boss offer me more money When I’ve said I had a job offer, It’s been either “when is your last day” or “we’re going to miss you”. Never “how much can we pay you to stay?”

      Now at old job there was an office from which our managers were reluctant to even offer people interviews, because that office was run by a manager who regularly made counter offers and staffers regularly applied for jobs they had no intention of taking just to get a counter offer.

    4. TootsNYC*

      I think you could say, if you got an offer, “Well, they did offer me that job. I’d really rather stay here, but I can’t really turn down that big of a raise. Is there any way the company can match it? Then I can stay.”

      Lots of companies don’t want to try to get you to stay, because they figure that if you’re unhappy enough to look for work, you’ll still be unhappy. And it could be hard to change the thing that was making you look.

      Fortunately, money is a change that will be easy to make, if they’re willing, and if they have the cash. So if they give you a raise, then you’ll be happy.

      The problem is with the size of the raise they’d have to give you. Think about what you’d ask for to make you stay. Maybe you wouldn’t demand the full 10%, since you get to keep things like vesting in the 401(k) or vacation seniority, etc. Think what that would be.

      And then you’ll need to do whichever–take the job if they don’t come up with the money, or stay and do a crackerjack job if they give you what you ask for.

  161. KR*

    Hi everyone! I have an associate degree in business administration from a good community college. I want to go back and get my bachelor’s degree but it would need to be a 100% online program. I’ve been looking at schools but it is so overwhelming, especially since most guidance for applying is geared to high school seniors and doesn’t apply to me.
    Do I need to retake my SAT? I took it before they recently changed the test and got a score equivalent to a B+. I know I could do better but I don’t want to put in all that effort if the schools will look at my work experience or CC transcripts more.
    If anyone has any tips and tricks for keeping track of your CC college choices and narrowing down and finding the perfect school for a working professional, please share!
    Also, has anyone heard of the University of South Dakota and if so what do you think of it? The tuition is cheap but their online business program looks really well fleshed out.

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      As the assistant dean of a business school and a long history in higher ed admissions…

      1. As a CC grad, you should not be asked to take the SAT again.
      2. Look for colleges that have articulation agreements with your CC. This means more of your credit is going to transfer over. Your CC should also have information on their agreements. Some states are better than others with CC to public uni articulations. Maryland, for example, requires that if you get an AA from a MD community college that a MD 4 year public university MUST accept it in block transfer. You don’t lose credits. Many private colleges are getting better about this too.
      3. There are plenty of online colleges that are regional accredited and have solid business programs. UMUC, SNHU etc. I would stay away from anything for profit (although many would say that UMUC is a for profit in non-profit sheeps clothing.)
      4. If you are looking to go beyond the bachelor’s degree one day for an MBA or other degree, you may want to consider narrowing your choice to schools with an AACSB accreditation. This is the highest and best program accreditation for business schools. It means a certain percent of classes are taught by full time faculty instead of all adjuncts. (Not that I have any issue with qualified adjuncts but that’s one of the things they measure.)

      I hope that helps!

      1. SoSo*

        Good point about transferring credits! In my state we have an agreement between the state CC and the state Universities that guarantee core credit transfers. It’s basically a sure thing that your entire two years at the CC will go towards the new program and you wont have to retake classes.

        Another point- make sure to check how many credits you can transfer to your new/desired institution. If the school has a transfer division or coordinator, they will know and most likely have lots of information. I’ve known some that will only accept 60 credits, and others that will allow up to 100.

        1. Name Under Development*

          Former community college employee here whose job included helping students transfer to 4-year institutions: be sure to check how many credits your program will accept in transfer, not just the university. For example, in Illinois, the state articulation agreement says that any public university in the state has to accept an AA/AS degree as fulfilling the core curriculum,but individual schools/ programs within the university may still require specific courses. You want to make sure that the business school accepts most/all of your general education and pre-requisite classes to meet program requirements, not just as “free electives”. For example, the business program at university A in my former area specifically excluded finite math from the list of acceptable math courses while the program at university B required finite math for their business majors, and both universities counted finite as one of the required college-level math courses for general education. You don’t want to end up with a bunch of classes that transfer as electives but don’t fulfill the degree requirements. A transfer coordinator can help you figure out what courses will transfer and that saves you time and money.

      2. KR*

        Thank you so much!!! I’m glad you mentioned SNHU because I have been seriously considering it because I went to a NH community college, I just wanted to make sure I was exploring all my options. This advice is so helpful.

    2. SoSo*

      No, you shouldn’t need to retake your SAT. I worked for a CC for over five years in academic affairs, got my first degree there, and did an online bachelors program after my associates, too. They’ll look at your transcripts from your associates degree, and that’s likely all.

      My best advice for finding an online program is to go with a brick-and-mortar school that offers the online program you’re interested in. It’s more likely to be organized and accredited like a standard university, and not a school like University of Phoenix. Also, make sure to look at the curriculum descriptions and make sure the types of classes align well with what you want from your degree. That will also tell you if your last year will require an internship versus thesis/capstone project, which will impact your schedule if you work full time. When I went with my online program it was important that I had a capstone project as opposed to an internship since I was already working two jobs and didn’t have time for another.

      1. KR*

        Thank you! I have been keeping an eye out for internship requirements. I don’t need an internship – I have a job! Also I’ve seen some schools that require one or two in person classes even though they claim to be 100% online degrees!

        1. Temperance*

          Is there an issue with taking a few in-person classes instead of just online classes?

          1. SoSo*

            There can be if the program/college you’re enrolled in isn’t local. My university was about an hour and a half away from where I lived and worked while finishing my degree, and taking a few F2F classes would have been a deal breaker even with that short of distance because I couldn’t afford to take half days off work to commute to class every week. I know other students who are in online programs through universities that are a full days drive away, or even several states.

    3. Argh!*

      You may need to retake it if your previous score is too old. These exams get redesigned regularly and you wouldn’t want to be judged on the wrong scale. Some schools specify these dates.

    4. foolofgrace*

      I would be wary of for-profit universities. Alison gave the advice once that someone completely remove from their resume the for-profit college item. I’m not saying that any of your contenders are for-profit, just a word of warning based on something Alison once said. Best of luck!

      1. foolofgrace*

        Upon more thought, I think the university Alison referenced was one that had gone out of business. So please remove my comment if you think it’s misleading. Sorry!

      2. KR*

        Thank you! I’m very wary of for profit colleges especially since I’ll be cash flowing the entire thing. I don’t want to waste my money!

    5. periwinkle*

      Have you talked with your community college’s advising office? It’s so common for students to complete an associates and then transfer those credits into a bachelor’s program. The CC should have information about good and affordable options for degree completion. They may have a transfer agreement with 4-year universities, which could even mean automatic admission if you meet certain criteria. Just a quick look through some university websites (look for admissions information for Transfer Students, that’s what you are) indicates that you’ll just need your CC transcript, and won’t need to re-take the SAT.

      Online programs are becoming commonplace and your CC may have an agreement with a university which offers 100% online degrees. Ask them!

  162. HannahS*

    TL;DR: How do you guys assess your own performance? How do you know if you’re being too hard/too easy on yourself?
    Story time:
    So, I’m in medical school and on our regular evaluations I tend to either barely manage to get the score that means that you know the minimum you’re supposed to know, or just miss it. Same in clinical exam skills–I rarely remember everything, but I usually don’t flubb it completely, and generally I feel that most of my classmates do better. My teachers generally tell my classmates things like, “You’re a great source of content, it’s clear that you really understand this” and I get “You’re so great at bringing social issues to the table.” So, my impression, which I felt was based on the feedback I was getting, was that I was just getting by. As a previous A student, this was pretty disheartening. Now, imagine my surprise when our class standardized test (which is meant to prepare us for the licensing exam) showed that I’m performing a full standard deviation above the median, and my most recent clinical skills evaluation ended with two surgeons telling me with concern that I’m doing extremely well, better than most, I’m way, way too hard on myself, and I should stop it because it might make me burn out.

    Now, this isn’t mean to be an extended brag. Obviously, that’s great feedback. But both of those really threw me for a loop. Sure, I’m harder on myself that others are on me, but I think that’s fairly normal, and when I assess myself I really try to take that tendency into account. I can’t make sense of the feedback I’m getting–I’m surrounded by people with degrees in physiology, in biology, in pharmacology, and I’m sitting there literally asking, “which one is the humerus?” The only way I can make sense of it is that perhaps my peers who can rhyme off this pathway and that can’t manipulate the info to apply it clinically? It’s so confusing. I don’t think you guys can provide the answer, of course, because you don’t actually know me, but I’d love to hear about how you figure out how to assess your own performance fairly.

    1. Little Twelvetoes*

      It can be tough. I’ve noticed that in my field (accounting), some of the best accountants didn’t have the best grades and needed a couple of swings at the CPA exam before passing. I’ve even know some great ones that didn’t even have a degree in accounting (like chemistry instead). On the flip side, I’ve known a couple that had amazing GPAs but seemed as dumb as post when it came to actually doing the work in the real world.

      I can’t think of any helpful advice to share, except to confirm that school success does not always equate with real-world success. Heck, I even remember getting my WORST GRADE EVER (like an entire 1.0 lower than my next lowest grade) in business law, and yet, it was the one part of the CPA exam that I knew I would pass with flying colors.

      For me perhaps, it is seeing if you know how to solve problems when you hit a bump in the road. Like if you forgot which one was the humerus, but not only do you know where to find the answer, it also didn’t really matter if you knew the label as long as you knew how fix/diagnose the bone, no matter what it is called.

    2. Argh!*

      It is difficult to assess yourself accurately, which is why we get external opinions like performance reviews.

      You could try asking for better-defined targets that you can measure yourself against. Some supervisors can do this, and some just can’t. I found out that my boss can’t and it’s been thoroughly demoralizing. She downgrades my performance but can’t justify it in solid terms.

      It’s also possible that your mediocre feedback is designed to keep you humble and make you study harder.

    3. designbot*

      It’s possible that the perception that you were just barely getting by spurred you to increased effort and drove the recent great results. It’s also possible that when you hear the comments towards other students that make you think they’re doing better, you’re only getting part of the story and they’ve really a part of a compliment sandwich. I could easily see someone saying, “You’re a great source of content, it’s clear that you really understand this, but we do need to find a way to get you to connect this to practical skills.”
      Also, I’m thinking of times at work when my direct reports have made serious errors, like errors the company has had to pay to fix. It IS serious, and I want them to take it seriously! But it’s also very, very normal, and something that we all go through. That may be the sort of thing going on with you maybe, so I’d try asking the evaluators, “Do you see (issue you just raised) as a part of the normal learning curve on this, or something I should be really concerned about?”

  163. DrWombat*

    First time being able to post in a bit, now 3 weeks in to new job! Said job is really exciting, though I need to work on my stamina since it’s a lot more physically active than grad school. Also getting used to getting up at 4:30 AM, but it’s really exciting research! Texas is great, new coworkers are great, and the cows I work with are pretty nice. Plus the barn cat at work has decided I exist to worship her, rather than do research XD. By the end of summer, as much exercise as I am getting just at work, I’ll be really buff, I hope!

      1. DrWombat*

        She is a tiny gray and white tabby with a very loud voice (she can be heard through two doors) and who likes to chase rocks. She also will perch on you like a parrot and knead your arm/shoulder. She’s good at staying out of the way when we are busy but if there’s a quiet moment, there she is, demanding snuggles XD

  164. Pseudonomnomnom*

    I’m currently at the tail end of a project that I’m going to frame as a learning experience for the future, because it is not going well.

    Big Regulatory Requirement is coming into effect next month. We have been trying to both prepare for that AND implement a tangentially-related software system. The system wasn’t required, but it’s replacing an annoying manual process. The implementation has been a nightmare of vendor issues – everything has been late, their communication was awful until we made a huge fuss to their senior management, and key features of the system have turned out to work differently than we expected.

    The kicker? We started this implementation project without actually having a director in place for the department that will primarily use this system. The old director left, and a new person didn’t start until we were well underway and had made a lot of key decisions. In retrospect we should have held off on this system entirely until someone new was hired.

    I’ve been almost completely bogged down with dealing with this vendor and handling the technical side of the project, and it’s taken so long to get anyone engaged in revising our related processes that it’s Friday and we are still finalizing exactly what we’re training our staff on tomorrow morning. There are some people here who really didn’t pull their weight, and others who had good questions about a month or two later than when those items should have been brought up.

    This is one of the first big projects that I’ve taken the lead on since starting at this company. While my boss and others are taking pains to recognize the work I’ve done on the technical side of the project, I feel awful about the project in general and my confidence is really shaken. Any tips on recovery?

    I’m not trained as a project manager, but we’re small enough to not have a real one, so this type of work is going to fall to me again in the future.

    1. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      Ooof, I’m sorry. I’m a recovering IT project manager and know the feeling when 3rd parties screw up AND team members aren’t doing what they need. I’d do a retrospective with the internal team after it is done. I find these way better than the old school lessons learned survey. You can share results with the team and management. As for confidence, I personally think the retrospective from this project will help you on future projects. There are also a lot of free resources online for project management if you so desire. And lastly, I think the soft skills for leading a project are as important as the hard skills. Knowing when to escalate something, over communicating, talking to people who aren’t giving answers rather than sending more emails. These are all things that I had to evolve as I led more projects. So don’t sweat it! Project leaders are really cat herders…and the cats are all greased up. It’s hard work!

    2. ronda*

      this actually sounds pretty typical for a software project.

      And just to let you know, at the training everyone will be like “but this doesn’t work the way I do it now”

      once they are forced to use it for 3 months, they get over that, usually.

  165. ADB_BWG*

    I’ve just been told that I will become the acting 1st level manager of my current group. There’s been a set of musical chairs – my immediate manager (S) is acting in his manager’s (W) position over our and two other groups, W is acting as the #2 slot for the entire office, and G (the existing #2) is acting as the #1. This is a chain reaction to the original #1 moving to a different office’s #1 slot.

    The net result all depends on who gets the #1 slot and whether any of the chairs stay shifted. I believe they will start by filling the #1 slot, and rolling down from there. I’m federal government, so I can only act for six months. After which, someone else will become acting if the position hasn’t been advertised / filled.

    My group has six members, including me. I get along very well with four of the five, including the other person who was qualified to act but did not want the position (and who has told me separately that he thinks I will do a great job and I have his support). The fifth person (P) was hired about 16 months ago to take over my previous projects when someone else (B) left for another job and I got B’s project. I’ve had concerns about P’s performance since he started – he’s lazy, he waits for other people to answer questions, he doesn’t seem to know much about the problems his program faces, he still expect me (as the former program manager) to answer complex questions in meetings, and he’s very insistent on his schedule (teleworks every Monday and Friday, answers requests for in person meetings on those days with “That’s my telework day”, and – if he has offsite training classes T-R, still teleworks M and F – so he can be out of the office for seven straight business days). Obviously, S (my immediate boss) should have been managing P aggressively. I don’t know if he has or not, though S has acknowledged the concerns I’ve brought to him.

    Of course, I will discuss these with S to see how he wants to approach the situation. But I would appreciate advice from those who have been in the situation of an internal temporary promotion over peers and those who have dealt as a temporary manager with peers who don’t seem to have mastered their jobs.

    TIA.

  166. Lauren*

    Bringing up negative feedback to higher ups that don’t like hearing it.

    We have leadership meetings with everyone above a certain level. I brought my concerns about what the masses in the office have been worrying about to the meeting (in theory, this is what they are for). The issue – Client is going away, staff are worried about their jobs, and I asked if it was communicated to the staff that only work with this one client. He said yes. I said, but there are still concerns with what is next. He said that people can come to him about it. I said but they aren’t going to you, they are coming to us and I don’t want them to flip out and start applying elsewhere – if we can say – you are fine, this is your next client. He was annoyed and said people need to think bigger picture and not be so focused on going from Client A to Client B. To me and others, we work for a paycheck – all we care about is if we will be blindsided with getting laid off. Historically, a client goes away – the whole team goes away. People in the room were me up asking questions, and how the whole thing is being perceived – as in “it may be that the message is lost in translation, etc.”

    I was trying to convey “getting specific on details per person on the client that is going away so that we could hold off on anyone leaving prematurely.” My SVP understood this, and we agreed that I would keep quiet for awhile to not make waves. My SVP appreciates my candid feedback, tells me if my points are valid, and takes advantage of my “high degree of EQ” (his words) for clients.

    For next time, since I can’t stay silent forever and I do want to make this place be better – how am I supposed to bring up things that are not super positive? I need a better approach with them. Advice??

    1. Argh!*

      “people need to think bigger picture” which means, think of it from my point of view and don’t worry about your rent and utilities?

      Research has shown that people in power lose empathy that they may have had before attaining powerful positions. You may be talking to someone like this. If they have gone so far over the edge that they can no longer empathize with people who might lose their jobs, it would probably be best for them to move on. (And perhaps you, too!)

    2. Chaordic One*

      I guess you need to wait for someone to quit, and they you can say that they were having trouble dealing with the ambiguity and uncertainty of the situation, a situation that inaction (on his part) has exacerbated. (Of course don’t tell him the last part.)

  167. Saturn*

    Any advice on how to handle greeting people when you have a cold? My baby started daycare this fall, and because of that, I’ve pretty much had a cold all winter. My job involves greeting people multiple times a day. When people reach out to shake my hand, I tell them “I am so sorry, but I have a cold and I don’t think you’ll want to shake my hand”. When I say that, they grimmace and look a bit rejected. Is there a warmer way to not shake people’s hands?

    2. FrontRangeOy*

      My work has been struggling with months of evil flu viruses and resistant strep infections. Misery upon misery for probably 4 months or a little more. My role is partially remote so I’ve done as much work as possible from home and even commented to my boss a few times “I’ve been staying home to work to try and not infect everybody again.” We’re pretty small but my experience is that people appreciate a heads up on illness and don’t get icked out by a “not shaking hands today” sort of statement

  168. Decima Dewey*

    I came back from lunch and learned that someone has accepted our Branch Manager opening, so the end of my Acting Branch Manager days is in sight. We get to meet him on Monday the 8th, he’ll see the branch, I’ll brief him, and assuming he doesn’t run screaming from the building, he starts on Monday May 14th. Unless he has preapproved vacation, in which case I’ll deal. But the end of my Acting Branch Manager days is in sight!

  169. all aboard the anon train*

    I don’t know if this will get seen so late, but I asked about moving from a corporate job to a new startup two weeks ago and here’s an update.

    I’ve been looking for a new job for about two years. My current corporate job is easy and stable, and I can come and go as I please, but I’m bored and at BEC stage with almost everyone. I was just given a promotion last week with a small raise of $5K, but it was a promotion a lot of other people got because they’re redesigning job responsibilities, so I’m pretty much doing the same job with a different title and $100 extra per paycheck. I’m still unhappy at work even with the promotion.

    Startup Pros:

    1. This isn’t a contract position. It’s salaried with benefits. Healthcare and 401K are similar to what I have now. It’s a $30K salary bump, and it means I’m finally breaking even (half the new monthly salary would cover rent and other bills, and the other half I can use to pay down medical/loan debt – I’d be debt free in six months).

    2. The company is based on the west coast and starting an east coast office. The east coast office is based in a shared workspace (a wework location) that’s two stops away on the subway, but I have the option of working from home three to four days a week with flex work hours.

    3. It’s founded and run by women. They’re focused on diversity both in their office and their product, and have been predominantly hiring women and people of color for all their roles, including tech. It was honestly such a nice surprise to see an office where women are the majority and it’s not just a sea of white men.

    4. I report to the VP of Tech and have two direct reports. There’s potential for growth as they expand. It’s e-commerce and will give me e-commerce and tech experience which as a project manager is super useful, and way more relevant experience than I get as a PM at my current job.

    Cons:

    1. They’re a very young startup. They were crowdfunded, and are backed by an angel investor. They have a product runway for the next few quarters, but can’t promise anything beyond that. So, there’ll be a job for at least a year, but after that, who knows what will happen.

    2. Because they’re on the west coast, I worry that being on the east coast means I’ll have to work longer hours. If they want a 3 pm meeting, that’s 6 pm my time.I’m not keen on working 10 hour days, even if I’m working from home. I’m not sure if this will happen, but they asked for several phone interview times at 3/4 PST and 6/7 EST.

    3. They’re spending the next year focused on refining the product after an early rollout that had some errors due to rushed production to meet promised deadlines. So, there’s not as much concern for revenue in the next year as there is building product and figuring out where it will be sold and how it will start making money beyond fulfilling crowdsourcing orders.

    4. I have about five months of living expenses if I lose my job and I’ve been at my current job for four years and my previous one for three and a half, so I’m not worried about a short term stay. But I am on my own. I don’t have any other financial resources to fall back on and won’t in the future (I’ve had people tell me not to take risks without a partner or spouse to support me which is pretty grating because that’s never going to be an option). So if the job goes under, my backup plan is my savings account.

    My job search hasn’t been that great and corporate companies seem to want all the skills I can get from a startup and not my current corporate company. I do get more money at the startup, but with the risk of job security. I’m torn between turning down the job and potentially missing out on a great opportunity while being miserable at my current job or taking the job and finding out that I don’t like it or having the company go under in the next year.

    1. Boredatwork*

      I think the big question is how quickly could you find another position that would cover your basic living costs, should the start-up implode? Also, how risk adverse are you?

      The fact that you could pay off all of your debt, and feel the job is building skills you need to acquire to move up is a very strong pro. The big Con here is the work-life balance. It’s a start up on the west coast, I feel like you’d have to be prepared to take calls and answer emails until 7/8 pm west coast time.

      The fact that you called a 5K raise “small” means you’re probably making over 6 figures, so a 30K raise while nice is probably only around 20%.

      I’d take the job if you don’t think you’ll be able to develop these skills anywhere else.

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        I mean, to the work-life balance, when they did mention west coast time, they did say that it meant I could have a 10/11 am east coast start time. Which tbh wouldn’t be all that bad since I’m not a morning person as is. My only concern with that is that I do have a lot going on at night and I think I find it frustrating if I can no longer go to my 6-8 pm events/appointments/etc.

        I’m not making over 6 figures now, but the $30K would put me close to six figures (but not at it). I say $5K is “small” because after taxes and benefits are taken out, it really came down to about an extra $200 a month and that’s not a huge amount for me. But I also live in a very HCOL area, so $200/month doesn’t go that far.

        I think my biggest concern is finding another job quickly since it’s taken me long enough each time I have job searched in the past. I don’t want to go through all my savings and then be left with nothing, you know?

        1. Boredatwork*

          Yeh – I completely understand! I was just trying to extrapolate, because the more you make the harder it is to replace that income and that increases the “risk” factor of the startup job.

          If you know the job will last a minimum of 1 year, could you aggressively save to build up your reserve and payoff your outstanding debt? That would take some of the financial pressure off if you had to job search.

          It’s definitely a risk, it sounds like a really cool place to work TBH.

          1. all aboard the anon train*

            Yeah, I think that’s what I might end up having to do. Someone below mentioned working with a financial advisor to figure out a debt repayment/savings plan, which might be the best option for my finances, just to be safe if the company folds.

            1. Boredatwork*

              That can’t hurt and hopefully it’ll give you enough piece of mind to take the risk. The good news is long before the company folds, you should see the writing on the wall.

    2. baconeggandcheeseplease*

      Have you asked about how the time difference affects the East coast’s office day to day?

      I would take it, because job security is more or less always going to be a risk. Obviously much less at your current job but you’ve been looking to leave for 2 years. I think the experience for 1+ years will definitely be worth it! I personally would sit down and create a solid financial plan (either by yourself, or with financial advisor, or someone you trust talking about $$ with) that balances paying off your debt and also increasing your savings/investments (if that’s something you do), so that you can make the most of that salary bump in the year+ that you def. have the job. That might mean just using the bump to save/pay off debt, and continue operating on your current budget. This start up could take off in the next year (and that’s the hope!), but it can’t hurt to plan like it’s a year long contract contract.

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        They did mention that I had the option to work west coast hours – so 10-6 or 11-7 – which does work for me since I prefer a later start, but that if I wanted to work east coast hours, I might need to stay a bit later if the west coast office wanted late afternoon meetings. I was told that if that was the case, I could either wfh those days or if I was in the office, go home and take the calls from home instead of staying in the office.

        The financial plan is a good idea, though! I have a basic one I’ve created, but I didn’t really think about going to a financial advisor. Thanks for that, I’m definitely going to look into it!

        1. baconeggandcheeseplease*

          You’re welcome! It sounds like they’re flexible, so hopefully the time difference won’t hurt your work/life balance too much.

  170. Robin*

    Trying to decide if I should delay starting a family to job search. My company is very family friendly, but the workload for my department has been very low for several months and isn’t likely to increase in the foreseeable future, so I’m worried about job security. At 35 I’m reluctant to postpone trying for a baby but starting a new job could be risky if I get pregnant quickly. Is it likely a large company would work with me on maternity leave if I’m not eligible for FMLA?

    1. Little Twelvetoes*

      I work for a medium-sized government, and I know of at least two situations where people needed maternity leave before qualifying for FMLA, and the company did what they could. We have really good benefits, so they both had some PTO/MSL they could use and some short-term disability. And at least one of those two was able to tap into our sick leave donation program to help cover some time. (My major sick leave balance is often in danger of capping out, so I was happy to throw in hours for her.)

    2. SoSo*

      As Twelvetoes mentions above, short term disability might be an option if FMLA is not. You’ll want to check your EOB but I work for a large company and it’s listed under our coverage as an option.

    3. Thlayli*

      There is rarely a perfect time for anyone to have a baby. Unfortunately the reality is that the longer you wait the higher all the risks get. My personal opinion would be to:
      1 start trying now, assuming you and your partner are sure you definitely want a baby
      2 consider moving department within the same company. Family friendly companies can be difficult to find. I knowa number of people who switched career paths and moved to diffeeent roles within the same organisation. Some retraining might be in order, or depending on your current role you may be able to move into a management role in another area, etc. Of course this may not be a realistic option, but give it due consideration.
      3 start looking to see what else in in the market.

      Honestly with the cost of childcare, it is often not worth working in the the early years anyway, especially if you plan on having 2 or more children. I got made redundant after my eldest was born and it was a blessing in disguise. With the redundancy money and savings I already had, I was able to have a 2.5 year career break, had two kids close together and went back when my youngest turned 1.

      However I live in a country with a social welfare system and free healthcare, so I didn’t have to pay for the medical cost of having a baby, and I got unemployment and maternity pay off the state which extended the time I was able to stay off work. So ymmv on how much of a disaster it would be for you to lose your job in the middle of a pregnancy. Look into your rights for health insurance for example if you lost your job when already pregnant – could your partner put you on their insurance? Is there any way you could extend your insurance? Would you qualify for insurance not included in benefits? Etc.

  171. MassholeMarketer*

    Is anyone part of any national marketing associations? I was considering joining the American Marketing Association but the closest chapter is a bit far away.

  172. SoSo*

    Not sure if anyone will read this, but I posted a few weeks ago asking for advice on how to tamp down the impatience that comes with waiting for an answer after an interview. Unfortunately I didn’t get the job, but I did find out yesterday that in my current position I’ve been approved for a decent bonus and a 3% raise, starting immediately! So although I didn’t get the “yes” that I was hoping for, this is pretty good too!

  173. Wide-Angle Anna*

    I ran across a post while browsing the Not Always Right boards that I thought I should deposit here for discussion. A job applicant repeatedly showed up in a suit with a paper resume, even after being directed to the website. Turned out Applicant’s grandfather had told him that this was The Way to show initiative wen looking for a job. The submitter ended up writing a rejection letter to the grandfather asking that he get with the times. Link can be found here.

    In other news, I have a job! I’m tutoring kids in reading with a nationwide company (one that I don’t see running huge ad campaigns). It’s not what I went to school for, hence the name change from Anna the Ccounting Grad. But it’s been wonderful so far. My friend-turned-coworker was totally correct in saying I should apply there.

  174. Nashira*

    I am in such a weird situation with work. I am finishing my first month after a promotion to a technical team, as opposed to general help desk, and my team lead is pretty happy with me. Even though I am trying to go slowly to ensure that I don’t miss things, I am finishing work faster than expected and at a satisfactory quality level. I’m now onto kinda boring documentation tasks that need doing, and getting points for cheerfully doing it. It’s related to my professional interest: I am super stoked to poke at and inventory hardware.

    Except lol I’m actually in the middle of a pretty significant mental health crisis where I’m having difficult to handle urges to myself, and it takes time to access psych care. This is fine and great, right? Super fine.

    It feels so weird to have “professionally successful” on the one hand and “recently contemplated hospitalization” on the other.

    2. Reba*

      I get what you mean about hyper-competence in one area kindof throwing other stuff in your life into higher relief.

      Can you take some sick time or PTO to get the care that you need? You could take a morning off to make phone calls from home to set stuff up, then another afternoon or day off to do the appointments. I know it’s hard to get appointments out of work hours but a close friend was able to say more or less “starting next week I have a weekly medical appointment at X time so I’ll be heading out early on Wednesdays, thanks for understanding” to do therapy, and nothing at work exploded when they did that.

      You are already a high performer and well liked at work, so please don’t worry that accessing health care is something you need to put off until you’re more established in the position, or that you you need to just knuckle through it and not show weakness or something.

      You deserve care. Wishing you well.

      1. Nashira*

        I am working on getting appointments set up. It’s just so strange to see how hypercompetence plays out, since it’s not the typical narrative of mental illness for people at my professional level.

  175. Batshua*

    So, in the Batshua’s trying to be a responsible grownup but things keep becoming a dumpster fire saga, I went to see my new PA today to see if I could get some T3 before I see my endo in June.

    She refused. She was like “oh, no, you have an endo, he should handle that” and I’m like “I can’t wait until June, my JOB is at stake here”… so that went nowhere.

    She did order the labs, (at least some of them?) that my nutritionist recommended. She said she’d never even heard of reverse T3 and it wasn’t even on their lab slips.

    I ended up being half an hour late coming back to work (!) and I was a sobbing mess. So grateful I went before lunch, because I had an hour to weep and try to compose myself. I am so angry and so frustrated and I feel so powerless. The medical establishment is holding my health and well-being hostage here, and I’m sick of it.

    1. Batshua*

      … On a brighter note, I called a woo doctor who does T3. Unfortunately, the only folks who do this stuff in my area are a little sketch.

  176. Environmental Compliance*

    Hubs is in a weird situation. He’s a mechanical engineer that has previously focused in design, went into the Navy, and recently got medically DQ’d, so now that career path is out. He’s understandably feeling pretty lost right now.

    He’s always been interested in forestry & environmental engineering. Would it be more beneficial to get another degree (i.e., forestry), or is there some sort of certification he can go for, or would skills as a mechanical engineer be able to get him into environmental engineering? Any ideas on options from those in the field?

    1. OtterB*

      Good luck to hubs. I’d say if he’s not sure what he might like to get another degree or certification in, it would probably be useful to spend a little time looking for jobs that interest him and then tracking back to see what qualifications are required for those.

      Is your husband’s experience in design of buildings or of products? From my exposure to the subject over the years, especially if it’s buildings, he might look into things with names like “sustainable” or “green”. There is a LEED certification, among other things, that focuses on designing buildings in a sustainable way.

      My husband is a chemical/mechanical engineer. I’ll ask him if he has any suggestions. It’ll probably be tomorrow afternoon before I get back here with an update, so check back then if you don’t get enough other responses.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        He’s designed mostly in products that deal with fluid dynamics.

        Ideally, he’d take the next couple weeks off and digest what’s happened and really think about what he wants in a new job/career….but he likes being busy, and it’s difficult to convince him to not just slog back to the old job that had less than ideal people working in it that made him rather unhappy.

      2. OtterB*

        The only suggestion my husband had was that he might look at the Army Corps of Engineers. They have a lot of civilian employees. They aren’t doing direct environmental work but are doing a lot with streams and dams.

    2. Driving School Dropout*

      Environmental is a pretty wide category. Its hard to know without more specifics about what he finds attractive about forestry/enviro. There are definitely jobs in the environmental field that you can get with an ME degree. I’m an ME and I worked for a couple of years designing equipment and processing systems for a company that did hazmat remediation. But a lot of that is going to be more at the “dirty” end: Containment, processing, and transport of nasty stuff. I would recommend him talking to people who have the sort of job he would like to have to find out what direction to take.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        He’s expressed interest before in doing design work in more environmental projects – dam systems, that sort of thing. He loved all the work he did in heat transfer & fluid dynamics. When he talks about forestry, he’s usually talking more about forest surveying & the associated land management – sustainable timber harvest, for example.

    3. Batshua*

      A guy I’m interested in is a … chemical engineer working as a mechanical engineer, I think.

      I will ask him if he has ideas.

    4. LCL*

      There will be many, many job openings and much work for mechanical engineers basically undoing all of the drainage work that was done 50-100 years ago. Back then, streams and natural runoff and wetlands were drained, channeled, and culverted. Turns out that’s sort of bad for the environment…
      So if he wants to do ME work without any further training, and help the environment, start with a search on something like natural drainage or watershed restoration or streamflow restoration. Or, as much as it pains me to write it, dam removal.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        That’s true! I didn’t think about stream restoration. I’ll bookmark some articles on that to have him read when he comes back!

    5. BuffaLove*

      Oh hey, that’s my field! Does he have his EIT (engineer-in-training) certification? I’m not sure how heavily it’s pushed in ME, but it’s a requirement (or at least a nice-to-have) for many, many EnvE jobs, since you’re expected to be on track to become a licensed professional engineer (P.E.).

      I work for a state agency and have coworkers with degrees in chemical, mechanical, and civil engineering who all do the same work as me. From what I can remember from my brief stint at a consulting firm, most people had civil/environmental backgrounds, but there were still some outliers. I think a lot of companies/agenices would kill to have someone with that kind of background, but it might take some work to break in. If he can swing an internship or even some volunteer work, that would be huge.

      1. BuffaLove*

        Just saw the comment about land surveying – I don’t have much experience in that area, but I will say that that’s definitely it’s own field, so he should do some soul searching about what track appeals to him more. If he wants to do dam projects, he should be looking more closely at the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and state regulatory agencies, whereas surveying would probably have him working in the consulting world. Just my two cents from what I’ve seen.

      2. Environmental Compliance*

        Nah, in ME he was never pushed to become a PE, unfortunately. I was looking up some of the more EnvE tracks and a lot seem to require PE, which kinda sucks.

    6. Thlayli*

      Not necessary to get another degree probably. Engineering has a lot of transferable skills. But doing a shorter course in something forestry related would defintely help.

  177. Mouse Princess*

    Hoping to get some answers. My partner, who is Jewish, works for a publication that is struggling. They lowered the bar on their standards for advertising and ended up printing an ad for a hyper-religious, flat-earth society website. The ad was clearly not within the mission or standards of the publication, but they were clearly desperate for ad revenue. When my partner, who was shocked by the ad’s content, went to the website, he saw that the site contains multiple pages of anti-semitic content. Obviously, he feels threatened, unvalued, and unsafe working for a company that sanctions hateful rhetoric directed as him as a person. Most of his co-workers share this feeling.

    I hope this isn’t too political, but I’m hoping the readership here can help us figure out how to address this. He feels almost like he can’t continue to work there. What should his next steps be?

      1. Mouse Princess*

        Yes, they said to email them and cc the Creative Director and HR. He asked for, and was able to get, a meeting with Creative Director on Monday.

        1. Mouse Princess*

          I guess the bigger question is – what can be done? Commitment to not do that again? Apologies? What should he be looking for in his meeting?

          1. fposte*

            What does he want to have happen? I honestly don’t think it’s reasonable in most publications to vet prospective advertisers, so in his place I’d accept an apology and we won’t accept ads from them in future and call it a day. But it’s up to him.

            1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

              I’m not sure I agree that it’s not reasonable to vet prospective advertisers. A five- or ten-minute Google search seems like a pretty small price to pay to avoid advertising for Burning Crosses ‘R’ Us. It doesn’t have to mean only advertising for companies you’d directly endorse, but having some kind of a minimum threshold of non-villainy seems achievable.

              1. Mouse Princess*

                Right – the link from the ad went directly to a webpage that is explicitly and extremely anti-semitic, and also made claims about Pope Francis being the anti-christ, etc, etc. It’s not like it was an innocuous looking business that happened to have suspicious associations.

              2. fposte*

                It really wouldn’t fly as a condition at any journal I know. If Mr. Mouse has a specific request like “Can we check the website if we don’t already know the advertiser’s reputation?” that’s closer to a reasonable ask, but he’s not likely to get them to promise that they will for sure even there, and that won’t root out all villainy. This stuff just happens sometimes.

  178. Plant Mama*

    I just got a much wanted promotion at my job! I’ll be in training for a long time and this current location and then I’ll be going to a different one. There’s an employee who is at my current location and he is obviously very upset I got this promotion. I don’t even know why because he didn’t apply for it, so it’s not like he wanted it. I’m trying to figure out how to navigate these next several weeks with his snarky comments and attitude.

    1. foolofgrace*

      If it’s just a few weeks, honestly I’d just try to rise above it. Maybe mentally step back and try to observe him anthropologically as if he’s from a newly-discovered tribe and you’re making mental notes about his behavior. Sorry I can’t be more help.

  179. Mockingjay*

    On the good news side, I volunteered to help out the company on a project in another area that I’m not too familiar with. My first draft report wasn’t quite what it should be. Rather than take me to task, management took me out to lunch and gave me a full briefing on what I needed to know, and we mapped a path forward.

    It’s so nice to finally work for reasonable people.

  180. Butch Cassidy*

    I want to start transitioning out of the corporate world and into something else – probably clerical work in healthcare or for a nonprofit. I plan on starting my job search in earnest once a few of my stock shares vest in a few weeks.

    My team is very small, understaffed. I feel like it would be helpful for my boss to know I’m searching even before I have a firm date to leave, so he can plan ahead, but I’m unsure how that would go.

    Factors at play:
    -One of my coworkers is going to move to Japan late this year and we all know it, but she’s not actively job-searching and planning on leaving within a couple of months like I would be
    -Another coworker was open about pursuing another job in Poland and just took his sweet time putting in his notice, but he was fired a week or so earlier than his last day for unrelated reasons
    -I know that telling my boss that I intend to leave means I’m less likely to be added to new projects, but honestly that’s not a concern because I don’t want to be given new responsibilities at this job
    -I haven’t expressed any issues with the job to my boss, but that’s because I know “I find the private sector and the fundamental nature of this job to be at odds with who I am and my soul is low key dying and I want out” isn’t something he can change
    -I’ve been with the company for nearly two years (including the months I was a temp before being converted to permanent and staying in the same role) and I’ve had this particular position for eight months

    Thoughts? Advice? Help?

    1. foolofgrace*

      The problem with giving notice before the two-week mark is that you might find yourself out of a job before you’re ready. Personally, I wouldn’t give notice until I had something to go to.

  181. Natural Pears*

    Does anyone have any hot tips for making their home office ergonomically sound when the kinds of ergonomic chairs, desks, etc that seem to work best are priced for corporate offices? For example, I’m very short, and in trying to find a chair with a seat pan that’s shallow enough for me (among other things) all I can find are $600+ chairs.

    I’m sort of special needs. I’m about five feet tall and I have a disability that causes any posture or position that’s not perfect to turn into an injury pretty quickly. Right now my knees are totally borked because I sat cross legged for like 40 minutes a week ago. When I was a regular employee in corporate offices I could always get some special chair, like an Aeron or something, foot rests, keyboard trays, whatever. Now I’m self employed and do much of my work from home, where my setup is mostly ergonomically sound except that I can’t find a chair/footrest. I need my feet to be flat on something, my shoulders able to relax without my elbows hitting an arm rest, and my knees to be at a 90 degree angle without the seat pan digging into my calves. Finding an affordable option is proving to be impossible.

    1. SoSo*

      I too am 5″ tall so I at least understand part of where you’re coming from- it seems like so much furniture these days is for super tall people! If you haven’t already done this, can you go try out office/desk chairs at your local office supply store to find one that supports your back and offers the right size seat pan? Such as Staples or Office Depot? They are usually cheaper than the $500+ you’ll find online. I know that Amazon has some foot rest options, but I’m wondering if you don’t need a custom one made or if you could utilize an aerobic stepper platform? They are completely flat and are often adjustable so you can raise or lower them to your needs. Bonus points that it’s large enough that you can have enough surface area/space to comfortably set your feet.

      1. N Twello*

        I too am five feet tall and I have had a lot of problems in the past with pain from non-ergonomic seating. It got so bad that one company hired a specialist to come in and do a complete evaluation. She brought me four chairs to try out for a week each. What I discovered is that the most comfortable and safe chair for me is a small armless “secretary’s chair” with a short pan and small back. You can get these quite cheaply at Ikea or office supply stores. My home has hardwood floors so I bought castors that roll more easily on them (most office chairs are designed for carpets).

    2. Someone else*

      This may not work for your specific needs, but you know those super gaudy “gaming chairs”? Meant for playing video games? They’re often kind of ugly and wacky color combinations, but I’ve heard from quite a few people that they’re actually ridiculously comfortable. I know of more than one person who uses one as a desk chair. Way less expensive than an Aeron, and way better than your run of the mill wheely task chair. Might be worth trying out.
      Also sometimes office furniture leasing companies sell lightly used schmancy office furniture, so if you really do want an Aeron, you might be able to find one for half off.

      1. Three Pines Visitor*

        I just started using a yoga block as a footrest for my home office and it is the perfect height for me (5’3). Also, does not slip on the carpet!

  182. yay*

    guys! I have an interview for a job I really want!

    It’s with the Head of People and Operations for a manager position in a content heavy job. Any ideas on how to prepare for this?

  183. Pup Seal*

    I just started getting overtime at my job (yay for more money), though there’s one problem. I’ve discovered my boss calculates overtime by combining our two weeks (we’re paid biweekly) to compute overtime instead of calculating it by week by week basis that you legally have to do. What’s the best way and wording to bring this up?

    1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I think bringing it up with a “hey, you may not have known this, but the law says you’ve got to pay OT based on weekly hours.” He may not be aware of the law, or he may be 100% aware that he’s breaking the law, but I think this is the least confrontational way to do it. I’ve never had to have this conversation with someone, but when I have to call someone out, I usually just imagine they don’t know any better.

      1. foolofgrace*

        Alison recommends, in situations like this, that you frame it as “we (the company) are in violation; what can we do to avoid getting in trouble with the regulatory agencies [or whatever]?” It makes it less personal and more about fixing the problem, like you’re concerned that the company might find itself in hot water.

    1. DivineMissL*

      Without being familiar with the particular facility, I’d say that the employees probably dress fairly casually since they’re handling animals. You’d probably be fine with “business casual” (khakis, decent shoes, sweater or collared shirt). I can’t see that a shirt/tie would be necessary, but you still want to look like you’re trying to make a nice impression.

    2. Geillis D*

      I would guess anything goes as long as it’s casual and doesn’t include real fur…

    3. FrontRangeOy*

      I would be looking for sensible shoes, an outfit that is clean/not wrinkled but also looks like you could take a rescue on your way out the door if necessary, and willingness to ask questions.

      In other words, not really.

      A volunteer interview intends to align my needs with your interests. The classic example is the person who says they want to foster kittens, but doesn’t have the stamina to do all the overnight feedings kittens need. She might be well suited to helping answer phones and emails, or matching adopters with adoptees.
      I also want to get a sense of what you know about our organization
      what brought you to me rather than that other loving place across town?
      What’s your understanding of our mission and culture?
      I want to know what you already know, so I can plan any training you need appropriately and schedule tasks that don’t require additional training in the meantime.

  185. DivineMissL*

    Does anyone know what type of information comes up in a “background check”?
    I have a full-time job, and I applied for a part-time gig doing admin work for a small business. They want to run a background check on me, since I would have access to personal papers. I’m fine with it, but I’m wondering what this entails. Is that just criminal record check, or would it also be credit history, too? Would they care about education or job history? How much do they need to see to decide I’m trustworthy? What is commonly included?

    1. foolofgrace*

      It’s usually at least a criminal check, and often credit history. Although my credit history is trashed because of a prior Chapter 13 bankruptcy and it didn’t stop me from getting hired. I think job references get checked by a reference checker.

    2. Background Screening Co Employee*

      Honestly, this varies SO MUCH by company and position that it’s hard to say. Basic criminal history checks are pretty standard (but by no means universal); credit checks are really uncommon (they’re expensive and also illegal for a lot of positions in a lot of places). Past that, they could do anything or nothing depending on whether they feel the results could have an impact on your ability to do the job. (And to foolofgrace’s point about reference checks – good companies do their own but some outsource them to screening companies.)

      I know this isn’t giving you the specifics you’re looking for, but it really is the truth!

    3. Triple Anon*

      Often, you can request a copy of the background check. This may vary by state, but I’ve always had to sign a form consenting to it and on the form there’s a “send me a copy” box you can check. The ones that I’ve received were just criminal history. Traffic violations. Nothing else. And sometimes they only go back a few years. In other words, don’t worry!

  186. Just a thought*

    My job at a government building is running out of space, so they might start mandatory telework. So far I asked to be provided a laptop. Should I ask for anything else?
    Any tips for teleworking?

    The team I work with is currently not great with email and I end up having to follow up with people in person, so I haven’t really teleworked. I also have 4 roommates and am hoping to move to have 1 or none before this arrangement starts (another reason I don’t really telework).

    1. Lil Fidget*

      In my dream world I’d love to get a home office stipend. You may have to upgrade your home wifi and invest more in your home office equipment in order to accommodate this (like are you using your personal phone? Your own office supplies?) so it’d be great to see some of that come back. You can also itemize this stuff on your taxes in the US I believe but I’d rather have money.

      1. Just a thought*

        Interesting. My coworker did get them to pay for part of her wifi hotspot phone bill. We’re not supposed to use public networks since technically our work is confidential.
        We might have to use our personal phone. So far when I’ve worked from home, I’ve had to use my personal laptop, so I asked for a work one. I told my boss that if mine breaks and I can’t afford to replace it right away, I won’t be able to work, which seems silly. Still waiting to hear back about the laptops.

    2. CatCat*

      I’d ask for anything that I needed to do my job (laptop, printer, internet connection, phone). If my home set up made it not feasible, I’d ask for them to spring for a coworking space (where I am, there are places where you basically can have a membership and go there to use a desk/conference room/printers… basically generic office space where members can go to do office type work).

    4. Reba*

      Spouse’s work gives everyone a budget to kit out home office. Can be used to buy things like an ergo chair, hard drive, monitor, almost whatever is needed to make the home office an office. I really recommend asking for a monitor and keyboard, craning your neck down to look at a laptop all the time is no fun! (ask me how I know.) Webcam if you need that, better internet plan if you are going to be doing a lot of video, screensharing, vpn-ing.

  187. A Success Story (Or At Least the Start of One)*

    So I’m relatively happy with my place of employment if not my job, but I’ve started seriously/slowly job searching because I’ve felt overworked and underemployed for a while. Ideally, I would find something internally, but I’ve been applying externally as well.

    Yesterday I received a voicemail/email from one of the positions I applied to via LinkedIn’s Easy Apply to set up a phone screen. I tried to do some research and couldn’t find anything on Glassdoor, Salary, etc. about the salary for administrative positions. Rather than wasting time, I emailed to find out about the salary range, adapting Alison’s wording and startlingly, the recruiter replied with detailed information about the range and how increases worked. Tremendously impressive response and the package is higher than what the comparative average rate is on the salary websites for the generic job title of Senior Administrative Assistant.

    So anyway, I’m happy to proceed to the phone screen stage on Monday.

  188. Nonprofit Lady*

    I have a general question about recruiters (that came up for me after reading #4 here earlier this week https://www.askamanager.org/2018/04/candidate-said-shed-relocate-but-then-backtracked-employee-plays-with-her-hair-in-meetings-and-more.html ). I have recently been looking for employment, and I’ve added myself to some listservs and indicated on linkedin that I’m looking, etc. As a result, I’ve wound up on several recruiters’ e-mail lists, which are mostly junk not related to what I actually do. Which is fine, whatever.
    My question is- how do these recruiters make money? Or what’s in it for them? In the case of several of them, they send an e-mail that just links to a ziprecruiter or linkedin posting. I’m likely to go around that and apply directly to the org.

  189. ThisIshRightHere*

    What is the actual, professional way for a woman of color to handle coworkers touching her hair without permission? This is not a new issue, but the advice I’ve read online varies from “just suck it up and roll your eyes internally lest you reinforce angry Black woman/fiery Latina stereotypes” to “you’re in your rights to smack their hand away since they were basically assaulting you.” I’ve seen some advice along the lines of “just calmly explain that touching a WOC’s hair without permission can be considered a form of microaggression (and then explain wth a microaggression even is, I guess).” In my experience, some white people have taken it very badly when you mention a racial angle to their behavior to the point that they act as though *they* are the ones being oppressed for having this pointed out. Also, I’m not comfortable with the idea that as the person who experienced the dehumanizing/demoralizing behavior, I also have to be the one to provide the education about [what seems to me to be] a pretty basic social rule. So I would like some advice on how to navigate an experience like that.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      This sucks that its happening. I’d go with a straightforward, “please don’t do that, I don’t like it,” without smiling. It’s hard to argue with that and doesn’t let people try to litigate the racial aspect (and the people most likely to do this are the least self-aware already). Said calmly, perhaps while stepping back, its definitely not “fiery” or “angry” or anything. I’m sorry that you’re having to deal with it.

      1. ThisIshRightHere*

        Thanks for that. I keep saying I’ll do that “next time,” but in the moment I’m usually too caught off guard to remember my plan. Also, I have definitely been socialized to laugh off any disrespect I experience, so I’d have to concentrate really hard not to instinctively smile when made uncomfortable. I imagine this is true for most women, actually. I had a white woman supervisor walk behind my desk chair, run both her hands through my hair (right down to the scalp), and then as she turned to leave yell over her shoulder “oh sorry about touching your hair, I know that’s supposed to be some kinda no-no, but I was just so curious!” and keep walking. I even smiled at that. Had she remained in the room, I might have even suggested that I didn’t mind. Oof.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          DOWN TO THE SCALP. And then she tee-heed about it? I can’t.

          This is a hard thing to manage, mostly because I completely understand your reaction. You don’t want to “make waves”. But I assure you, it is ok to make a wave when someone puts her hand in YOUR waves (sorry, I had to go with that one). It is ok to flinch or jump when someone touches you. “Touching my hair is… really strange,” is also ok. “Please don’t touch my hair” is your baseline. It’s not mean or rude.

        2. Argh!*

          YIKES!!!!

          She had no business doing that. If you didn’t say anything at the time, going back to her now isn’t out of line. She probably remembers doing it. “Remember when you [did that]? Please don’t do that again. That isn’t very nice.”

          If she’s from the Midwest or South, being “nice” is a value for her, (if she’s stereotypical of course) so that should get to her. My boss, who is a b—–, believes that being “nice” is everything…. which means being passive aggressive among other things.

          If she repeats it after that, it might be worth having a conversation with her boss. If her boss isn’t completely incompetent, you won’t have to worry about it again.

          1. Argh!*

            re: being “nice” — I meant that overt bad stuff ends. “Nice” women may do passive-aggressive things, but it’s easy to see through it.

            If you suspect your coworkers will continue no matter what you try, documenting it all is a must. I document everything with my supervisor Comey-style. I don’t send emails to other people, but I send them to myself. Even if she tries to claim I faked the dates or something, our official email is discoverable if needed.

          2. ThisIshRightHere*

            Funny you should mention locality. Because this person is from California. More than half of all the clumsy racist experiences I’ve had at work (such as when a I politely declined a guy’s invitation to participate in a civil war re-enactment and then he called me out for “not being over the whole slavery thing”) have been with white people from California. And whenever I mention how their comment/behavior “could” be taken, the retort is always “oh, I’m from California” as if that fact, in itself, means that they are exempt having to exercise political correctness.

            1. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

              I am so sorry that happened. I would go with “Please don’t touch me.” I can’t, for the life of me, fathom putting both hands into someone else’s hair in the workplace, even invited. That is way creepy. I really don’t like being touched in general, so I’ve found that state the aforementioned “please don’t touch me” with a semi-disturbed/horrified look has worked fairly well to fight off head pats, arm grabs, etc.

            2. EmKay*

              He called you out for “not being over the whole slavery thing”?! I cannot. effing. even.

            3. AvonLady Barksdale*

              Someone once railed on me for seeking out a tour of Jewish sites in China. Got all belligerent about “why do you have to separate yourselves” and “why would you be interested in something like that”. He also said, “In California we don’t make those distinctions.” It was really bizarre. Then I remembered hearing something similar from someone who also used California as an excuse. (Actually, both of these people are from Orange County. Weird.) I know plenty of Californians who aren’t racist, but it’s the only state I know that has been cited to me as a way to excuse prejudiced language.

            4. Argh!*

              So being from California is like being genetically liberal or something? I don’t get it.

              I wonder what would have happened if you participated with light makeup on and portrayed a rich woman living at Tara.

              As for not being over “slavery,” I notice that confederate flags and civil war reenactments seem to originated by white people. THEY’RE the ones who need to get over it!

            5. A Nickname for AAM*

              I lived in the Bay Area for awhile after living in the Northeast. There is a lot of diversity in CA of people who are every race except African-American, so people tend to be a level of shockingly racist towards black people in a way I did not expect for such a diverse area.

              It was a shock to me, and to my African-American friend who moved there around the same time I did, who unfortunately experienced it firsthand.

        3. TiffIf*

          This may sound weird, but do you have a friend that you could practice or role-play with? Just acting it out a few times might help you react the way that you want to in the moment.

          1. Sci Fi IT Girl*

            This. Confidence to deal with awkward and setting boundaries is a learned skill, not a natural talent. Practice, practice, role play and practice some more. Then as someone said previously – hand that awkward package back to sender. “Please do not touch my hair.” Step back and outwait the awkward pause.

    2. foolofgrace*

      How about physically pulling back from the unwanted touch and saying something like, “Excuse me!” or “Are you really trying to touch my hair?” or “Sorry, I have a thing about people touching my hair.” Act shocked.

      1. ThisIshRightHere*

        @foolofgrace: I’ve tried that a time or two. I wondered afterward, though, whether I was doing the wrong thing by suggesting that this is just something that *I* happen to have a problem with/be sensitive about as opposed to being something that is universally inappropriate.

        1. Jill*

          Don’t give a reason like “I have a thing about it”. This is a fundamental boundary they are violating. Just tell them to stop, period. No explanation necessary.

        2. Argh!*

          It’s easy to know if it’s you or them — does she run her hands through white people’s hair?

          If she’s just ignorant, you could try, “I spend a lot of time on my hair. Please don’t mess it up.”

          I’m white and I have worked in all-black offices. We had a customer who used to like running her hands through my hair. I didn’t really care but my boss told me to tell her to stop it. I realized afterward, this woman had probably never touched white people’s hair before. Perhaps people who do this need to get a job as a massage therapist or cosmetologist or something.

        3. Yetanotherjennifer*

          It’s not on you to speak for everyone about hair touching no matter how universal the sentiment may be. You don’t like it and don’t welcome it and that’s all that matters. And since setting this type of boundary can be hard, I’d say any way you can express it while still being reasonably professional is just fine. You could follow up at some point with the fact that most people feel the same as you, but it’s OK to take care of yourself.

      2. ExcelJedi*

        I’d go with this.

        I’m white, so I know any reactions I get are somewhat influenced by that, but I’ll add: I’m pretty touch-averse, so my automatic response is to cringe away if someone tries to touch my hair or anything else without permission (including my partner and family sometimes, depending on how sensitive I am). Moving away and looking at them in shock like you can’t believe they actually did that seems to stop people in their tracks.

        Saying something and asking them to explain themselves might be a better tactic, but in the moment I have trouble doing anything other than apologizing for my seeming revulsion of them and their touch.

        1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

          I was going to say just this. I am white and have very corkscrew-y curly hair, so I have had to fend off the occasional unwanted advance. My natural instinct is to cringe and give them a WTF look, which generally is all I need to get my point across.

        2. paul*

          I’m a white male, but when someone touches me without permission I tend to borrow a page from Emperor Kuzco (sp?) and say “no touchy!”

          If I feel like I need to I might slightly soften that with a smile and saying “I don’t like being touched, thanks” Which is only half true, but eh.

    3. Jill*

      This has nothing to do with race, it’s about people touching you without your consent. As you said, it is a basic social rule – you don’t touch other people. When someone does it, say very firmly “please don’t touch my hair.” If they do it again, “I told you to please stop touching my hair.” The third time by the same person, “Why do you insist on touching my hair after I have told you to stop doing it?”

      And if it continues, escalate to your boss or HR because at that point it will have very clearly crossed the line to harassment.

      1. ThisIshRightHere*

        I see your point. And I will take your advice. But I want to note that it has quite a lot to do with race. I have never in my decades of professional life seen a white woman walk up to another white woman (especially one with whom she did not already have a personal relationship) and grab a handful of her hair uninvited. This very clearly only happens because of the type of hair I have. And the only reason I have this type of hair? You guessed it.

        1. Jill*

          Maybe so, but there is no need to bring race into. They are touching you without your consent.

          1. Blue Magic*

            Historically, Black Women were not given autonomy of their bodies from Slavery to Henrietta Lacks, so it is a race thing because we have been socialized to think it’s okay that we have access to certain women bodies based on their culture or skin color. What is happening to the OP is a race thing, we can’t get around that or ask her to reframe her violation so that it makes you feel comfortable. Let’s not pretend, it serves no one.

            1. ThisIshRightHere*

              Yeah….I didn’t “bring race into it.” It was already there. If anything, you’re asking me to take race *out* of it. Which, has value in that it doesn’t force the offender to deal with the discomfort of realizing that they’ve [perhaps unintentionally] done something racially insensitive. But then again, they didn’t mind causing me the discomfort of being treated like a petting zoo exhibit.

        2. Argh!*

          Yeah, it’s about race. Now that’s she’s felt black hair once or twice, her curiosity should be satisfied.

          I had a coworker sneak up on me in a hallway and put her hands over my eyes. An adult! I told her I’d taken self defense courses, and fortunately I remembered to check who it was before giving an elbow to the nose, but that I might not remember the next time, so let’s not have a next time please. (I actually have taken self-defense, so it’s not a lie) There was no next time.

          I think if I were black she might have found that threatening, so I’m not sure I’d advise you to use it, but if you think you can, feel free to copy from me.

        3. Any Mouse*

          I agree with you that there is a racial component to this.

          However, I am a white woman. I have an unusual hair style. People will grab my hair uninvited, because my hair is unusual. The twist for me is that it’s much more men that do this to me then women. The women almost always ask permission and respect it when I say no.

          I usually respond with a deliberately angry/fiery “Do not touch me!”, accompanied by jerking my head away dramatically.

          If there’s some reason to believe (or pretend) it’s accidental, I’ll do what I call the bee-in-the-hair dance, where I’ll suddenly brush my hand through my hair as if batting away a bug caught in my hair, pretending that I don’t realize it’s a person, sometimes accompanied by exclamations like “Ick, a bug!” or a gasp of surprise. Then, when I “discover” it’s a person, I say something like, “Sorry, got my hair caught on you and I though it was a bug!”, or, if it’s clear they were doing it deliberately, “Oh gosh I thought you were a bug! Don’t do that!”

          Comparing their touch to a bug crawling on you usually conveys very clearly that the feeling of a person getting into your hair is gross, without saying anything that the offending person can easily argue against or pinpoint as an obvious insult. It also lets you say “Don’t do that!” in a firm way that makes it clear you’re distressed, you don’t want it to happen again, you aren’t smiling, but that lets the other party save a bit of face “I didn’t mean to make it feel like a bug” so they don’t dig in like a jerk.

      2. The New Wanderer*

        I agree that it’s almost certainly about race (although redheads and people with super long hair are sometimes subjected to this treatment).

        But the thing to push back on is being touched at all without your consent. Ultimately it’s no different than if someone touches a pregnant woman’s stomach without permission. Just because it’s “unusual” and people are curious doesn’t make it public domain. It’s a shame we still have to tell other adults these things.

        Honestly I’d probably say “Don’t pet me!” in the moment and try to shame them for treating me like an object, but probably the most effective way to shut it down is Jill’s wording, without any softening (no smile, no “it’s just my problem”).

        1. ThursdaysGeek*

          As a white woman with long hair that is often braided – yeah, it’s about race. I’d get kids grabbing my hair all the time when I was in middle school. But as an adult? It still happens, but it is not common, and people usually ask first. They certainly don’t touch my head!

    4. Is pumpkin a vegetable?*

      Use the fact that you are caught of guard…you see the hand coming, you back your head away like you’re trying to avoid a pesky fly, put your hands up in the “stop” position, and say “WHOA! What are you DOING?”

      1. ThisIshRightHere*

        that’s a good one! I have a whole arsenal of stuff I keep meaning to try for “next time.” On this occasion, someone flicked my hair with my hair hand as she passed me from behind, so I honestly didn’t even register what had happened until she had already walked by. But next time, though…*crylaugh*

        1. Batshua*

          I don’t know if this will work for you, but sometimes Doing The Thing Back will bring the kind of attention you want to it; they’ll become self-conscious and back off.

          I know some people recommend that for when strangers touch pregnant women’s tummies.

          Anyway, maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn’t, but it’s an idea.

        2. Close Bracket*

          > I have a whole arsenal of stuff I keep meaning to try for “next time.”

          Setting boundaries takes practice. I hate being touched, and I usually just suffer the hugs and other things from people who I don’t want hugging me. I’ve only recently started telling people that I am not a hugger and don’t like being touched. It takes some work to make that your default response.

          Visualize scenarios in your head, and practice saying your lines out loud in front of the mirror. In general, practice saying no to more things, if you are not someone who generally says no. Maybe start turning down free stuff, or saying no to more water in a restaurant. If you are already good at saying no to stuff in other situations, try keeping that skill more in the forefront of your mind, so it is there to call upon.

          I’m sorry people are touching your hair.

    5. Blue Magic*

      Address it directly with a firm “Please don’t touch my hair,” or block their hand or dodge and respond, “with a hey, hey, John…boundaries.” or step away when they come for the pat. It sucks but you should not have to determine what is a microaggression or general interest (there’s google for that) and no one deserves access to your body in any form. You can also ask for HR just to send out a reminder that people should not be touched, there must be something in your handbook. I think if it’s framed in a way where it’s a general advisory it might be well received.
      The final thing would be petty and ask the offender if they touch everyone’s hair when they express interest in a haircut and do this in front of the group but say it with genuine interest.

    6. LCL*

      Well, since you asked. (I am white.) I get you that it is a racial issue and can be a microaggression. And that it really isn’t your job to educate ignorant people.
      So, ask the hair toucher-‘why is it OK to touch me without permission? Don’t do that.’

    7. Teacher*

      Choose a line (e.g.) “Please don’t touch my hair” and practice! Do a drill basically, by yourself. Literally say it out loud. I was once stunned into silence by a student’s racial comment (FWIW both students (young kids) involved are minorities and I am not). Since silence is not an acceptable response to that behavior, I decided to practice what to say in the moment (i.e. developmentally appropriate for the kids I work with) so that I am ready for next time. It actually works. I’ve been able to respond to the behavior/comments in the moment, when it happens. I am sure there are things I can do better, but it really did help to practice the response.

    8. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Do you have a white coworker you trust that you could ask to assist you with this?

      This is something I would be happy to tackle as an ally.

      1. ThisIshRightHere*

        @Detective Amy Santiago- Thank you for reminding me about this option. That’s just the kind of things I think allies are perfect for.

        @Teacher- I will! Thanks!

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I mean, Becky might still get punched in the face because I am not the most patient :)

    9. Anonymous Ampersand*

      I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this

      As you mention struggling to react in the moment, I would suggest practising with a friend. Friend pretends to try to touch your hair, you use these responses. You’ll be more likely to be able to actually use the words in the moment.

    10. Hope*

      I’d go with a straightforward “What are you doing? You don’t touch other people’s hair.” Put the awkward on the person doing the awkward thing.

      If you get any pushback, continue to point out that it is unprofessional, not normal, etc. to touch another person without their permission. If it gets worse, point out that it can be perceived as harassment and you will go to HR if necessary.

  190. sunbittern*

    I wrote in a few weeks about an extended hiring process (not in a field where extended hiring processes are particularly normal) and used Alison’s script to try to move the offer letter along. I got an answer about why it was taking so long (compensation dispute between hiring manager and HR) and when I said I was okay with the current status, the hiring manager said “Great! I’ll get the offer to you ASAP!” And now it’s been 2 weeks. I just emailed yesterday about a status update. How often should I contact this person without being too much of a pest? (For context, this is a former employer, we’re on good terms, but he has terrible time management skills.)

  191. ThisIshRightHere*

    I worked from home yesterday. Coincidentally, I had a stylist come over and braid my hair while I was writing a report. She literally stood behind me and did her thing while I sat at my desk and typed. The report is already turned in, so there can be no question as to whether I was truly working. But several colleagues upon seeing my new hairdo, have commented something along the lines of “ohhh, so THAT’S what you were doing while you were out yesterday.” Wondering how far I should be going to counteract the idea that I misused my work from home privilege to have a “day of beauty” as one colleague put it?

    1. Be the Change*

      Are these the same rude people who are touching your hair without your permission? So annoying.

      Maybe smile and say “Actually I spent all day writing that report. Glad you like my new do, too!” …unless your office is known to punish people for perceptions, I wouldn’t worry about it further. Some people have no imagination for small talk.

      1. ThisIshRightHere*

        Actually yes, the very same person who swooshed my hair a moment ago (my boss’ secretary) was the same one who asked me loudly in front of his open door whether I’d had a day of beauty while I was “off” yesterday. I looked a little bewildered and said, “no, of course not. I had a lot of work to do. A spa day would be nice, though. ” and she replied “oh, well your hair looks nice.” On the one hand, I didn’t sweat it because my boss (of all people) knows full well that I worked all day yesterday. But on the other hand, I felt a little tinge of defensiveness of the “how dare you” variety. I’ll let that part go, though because I think you’re onto something with the whole imagination for smalltalk thing. She could’ve easily just said “nice do” and we all could’ve moved on with our lives.

        1. Close Bracket*

          > Actually yes, the very same person who swooshed my hair a moment ago (my boss’ secretary) was the same one who asked me loudly in front of his open door whether I’d had a day of beauty while I was “off” yesterday.

          I am sending evil thoughts that person’s way.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Between this and your above post, it sounds like your office is full of nosy biddies. Is it possible to just kind of… ignore them? Or say, “I also finished that report that was due this morning, which I was able to work on in peace and quiet, and the person who touched my hair was being paid to do so.”

      OK, maybe not that last bit.

      1. ThisIshRightHere*

        First of all, I love your screen name (being a native Baltimorean and “The Wire” aficionado who also grew up not even realizing that personal care products could be purchased in a store due to my mother’s obsession with home sales services). Secondly, that last bit was my favorite part.

  192. gbca*

    Any tips for handling a colleague who is under a lot of pressure and makes your life difficult/throws you under the bus as a result? A person in a different department from me, but who I am on a long-term working team with, has a huge workload and seems to be generally under a ton of pressure. She’s inherited a lot of messes from other people that she’s cleaning up, which is part of the issue.

    Recently, she’s gotten really antagonistic with me, and has been rapidly escalating issues that were technically her team’s fault and blaming me in my role for them. I’m not blameless in that I perhaps could have been more proactive in anticipating issues, but really the issues have stemmed from her team not sending items my way that require my team’s approval.

    I pride myself on working collaboratively and making my business partners look good, and I’m really struggling to handle this person who is taking an adversarial approach. Any suggestions for how to handle this? I want to talk to her about it but am not quite sure how to frame it.

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      My guess is that this other employee is too burned out to really listen to you. If I were in your shoes, I would probably go to my own boss under the guise of “asking for advice” about how to handle her. Maybe your own boss knows why her workload has gotten so high and can provide you with some important insights about that. Maybe your boss knows there’s an ebb-and-flow to her work that you are unaware of; if you manage to time your interactions with her with that in mind, perhaps the quality of your transactions with her will improve. If you try again with a different approach, but your relationship with her doesn’t improve after that, maybe your boss needs to go have a chat with her boss.

  193. Therese*

    I work at a restaurant and we cannot seem to get any kitchen help. In the past we posted ads on craigslist but that doesn’t seem to be working. I recently posted on facebook but so far nothing.

    We did just pay a lot of money to get some ads in the paper and online but we’re running out of ideas and struggling to get enough staff for the season.

    1. Lauren*

      Put a flyer in the menus. Use your audience – someone’s parent might send it to their kid. Be specific about any benefits. $ / hr, healthcare, set schedule, share tips. Call the local high school and ask them to post a flyer in the guidance office. Post in the college FB page or post a flyer in their cafeteria if that is allowed.

      Also, pay more. Up the hourly rate, and you’ll find a few more people willing to do kitchen work.

    2. StudentA*

      I know this would be more expensive, but what about restaurant staffing companies? They don’t have to be temps, it can be for temporary staffing. Also, and this may be too obvious, but have some really conspicuous Help Wanted signs in the customer-facing areas.

    3. Regular on a different comp*

      What’s your population like? Are your flyers in different languages? How are other restaurants in the area staffing their kitchens?

      1. Lil Fidget*

        I was going to say, are all your ads in English? Also, if you are looking for candidates and pay well, is there any opportunity to get together with organizations that provide jobs to veterans, people struggling with homelessness or recovering from addiction, ex cons, etc? Also students in special education are often given special assistance in placement – if any of those groups sound like a good fit for your needs, it’s a nice win-win.

    4. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Just chiming in to commiserate. I hire production workers, and the low unemployment rate makes it very difficult to find quality people. It would probably help somewhat if we could raise our pay, and/or offer steadier employment, but the company I work for is terrible so that’s not going to happen.

    5. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Do a Crtl-F and read the thread that Another Lauren started above about targeting populations that are frequently underemployed.

    6. Seriously?*

      Is there any way you can raise the hourly rate? That is probably the easiest way to draw in more applicants and retain them once hired.

    8. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      Do you have any colleges nearby that you could post a flyer on their bulletin board? My friend’s son is always looking at that board for a job at his college.

  194. Weyrwoman*

    I started my new job on Monday! This is my first job that’s exempt salaried, and it is so bizarre not having to clock in/out, or otherwise account for my time beyond “Yes, I am doing work today”. I’ve got some pretty mad work-anxiety about being capable of this job, but I keep reminding myself that this *is* entry-level, and obviously the hiring manager thinks I’m capable because, well, he hired me. With any luck these feelings of inadequacy will vanish as I move out of training material and into actual day-to-day work.

    Fridays are office-wide Work From Home days, which is fantastic, and so today I am sitting by my apartment pool. :D

  195. In Transition*

    So I lost my job in January and I am at a loss at how to transfer my skills to a regular corporate 9-5 job.
    Here is what I have done: I worked as a teacher for a few years. Then I worked at churches for 20 years being the director of religious education program. I have my masters degree for doing that. Then I worked at a store as the store manager. I recently left that job. I’ve been applying for jobs like crazy but not getting anywhere. Am I overqualified for regular office jobs? I am so torn at what to do…it also doesn’t help that all these jobs the pay is 1/3 of what I was making.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Do you not want to go back into education / religious education? It’s not a lucrative field but that sounds like where your most impressive experience lies, from here. It’s niche but if there is a midlevel job in that arena I’d think you’d be an excellent candidate having formerly been a director.

    2. Argh!*

      What do you mean by “regular?” Are you trying to get away from jobs that use your skills as a trainer & educator? Most large organizations have departments for trainers, and there are whole companies devoted to that.

      If you are sending out the same resume to every job opening, and you are not targeting your applications to skills you have, that is something hiring officials can spot.

      Also, do you have documentation for your office skills? I think some temp agencies do testing that you can mention (plus you’d get temp jobs).

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      Can you look into training roles? Like corporate trainer? You have a background in teaching and developing lesson plans. You’re comfortable in front of groups. There are companies that send trainers out (if you’re okay with travel), or you could try to find an internal trainer spot somewhere.

    4. In Transition*

      I’d love to go back into those roles but no one in the area is really hiring. And I really don’t want to relocate at this time…or can I afford to.

      I like the idea of finding trainer/education roles.

    5. leukothea*

      I’d start by going to O Net online and searching for 21-2021.00 – Directors, Religious Activities and Education. There’s a whole list of qualities and skills that are necessary for that job, and I bet you have most or even all of them!

      Think about what on that list is a strength for you and where your joy lay in that job. Those are the skills and strengths to focus on in your next step. If you agree with O Net’s “interests,” “work styles,” and “work values” for the position, make a note of the ones to focus on. Also check out the “related occupations” at the bottom.

      Next, go to the Advanced Search link at the top and see if you can noodle around with it and find other job titles that match parts of the profile. There may be titles you never even knew existed!

      When I was looking, I kept a spreadsheet of all the job titles that I thought would match my strengths and skills. I spent a lot of time searching through job postings online. I also had various filters set up on job searching websites to email me every day with new jobs that matched those titles. One of the jobs I found that way ended up being my new position!

      Best of luck!

  196. Sleepy baby*

    Anyone have any suggestions for concentrating with noisy distractions? Because of my desk location, there’s not a lot that can be reasonably be done to limit the noise and at the moment I can’t move desks.
    I would use noise cancelling headphones but I wonder how hard it would be for people to get my attention when they stop by my desk.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      I use an online noise machine (free!) I find it really helpful.
      Here’s the one I use: https://mynoise. net
      It lets you make adjustments to the sound “station” you choose, and there are multiple (tons and tons of) sound options. The landing page is a little overwhelming with the options, honestly, but you’ll be able to find something perfect for you. I like the thunder and rain one, myself.

    3. katkat*

      I say at least try the headphones first! If you notice people are struggling to get your attention or starting to seem annoyed that you don’t answer right away, stop the headphones.
      Can you make any adjustments to your desk set up that have you face a direction from which people would be approaching? Then you wouldn’t have to rely on sound alone, you could see when someone comes up.

      1. SoSo*

        One solution- I use noise cancelling headphones and have put a small locker-size mirror up beside my monitor screen that allows me to see behind my chair if I glance over. It’s also in my line of sight and I can pretty easily notice if someone is trying to get my attention because of the movement in the reflection.

  197. Salty Sea*

    Ok, poll time!

    How many folks who are full-time, salaried, exempt employees have to fill out paper time sheets?

    If you do, how large is your place of work?

    1. Salty Sea*

      I’ll go first!

      Yes, I fill out paper time sheets and I work for a private non-profit college with roughly 400-500 employees on payroll (mixture of full-time, part-time, salaried, hourly, exempt and non-exempt).

        1. Salty Sea*

          Yes, everyone fills out paper time sheets, including our president. It IS a lot of paper and then apparently all of the time has to be manually entered into whatever software HR uses.

      2. TotesMaGoats*

        That sounds like my old job only a bit bigger. We only turned in timesheets twice a year. Leave was a basically the honor system.

    2. Argh!*

      We have about 40 exempt employees within a larger organization. We all use a computerized system, but only our special supervisors require us to print it out and sign it! We also have to make notes about every little thing so our supervisors can initial them all individually.

      Yes, it is difficult for us to respect our “betters.”

    3. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Electronic time sheets here, and that’s only because I have to specify which accounts to bill for my time. And we’re small to medium for our industry.

    4. The New Wanderer*

      My first job (salaried exempt) at a large company acting as a gov’t contractor, the time sheets were carbons for a while before the process was automated.
      My most recent job (salaried exempt) at an even larger company where some divisions work on gov’t contracts, we used an electronic time system.

      Both had daily entries to the 0.1 hrs if necessary, charged to various project numbers as appropriate.

    5. LadyKelvin*

      We all have to submit original signature paper forms for our “hours” which is basically just a form which says either yes I worked all the hours or here’s the hours I took off and from which bank they should come from. I work as a non-civil service state employee for a research branch of the state university. We’re about 1400 people. Its a lot of paper.

    6. Judy (since 2010)*

      As an engineer, I’ve been full-time, salaried exempt for 20 years. I’ve always had to fill out electronic time sheets. They have never been tied to my pay, but they show which projects I’ve spent my time on. The data is used to estimate other projects. I’ve worked in the defense, automotive, appliance and mining industries designing products.

      The companies have been huge, 400k people, to small, 75 people.

    7. leukothea*

      Full-time, salaried, exempt worker here and have been for 17 years — and I have never ever filled out a paper time sheet. It seems to me like it would be pretty rare, but the other replies to this question indicate I may be off base!

    8. Middle Name Jane*

      I’m full-time, salaried, exempt, but our company uses electronic time sheets. I have to submit one monthly but only have to claim sick days or PTO. My company has about 1,300 employees.

      I haven’t had to do paper time sheets since the early 2000s. Everywhere I’ve worked since that job used an electronic timekeeping system.

  198. Palomides*

    I am currently looking for a new job, but I have a slight problem when other companies want contact info for previous supervisors. No one I worked for previously is still at their old positions, and they did not leave forwarding information. I got my current job right out of college seven years ago, and the people I formally worked under are no longer at their former locations. Unfortunately, those positions were very small-scale, and involved myself, maybe one peer, and my former supervisors. To make matters worse, I currently work for a very small office, and have transitioned from sole employee to office manager, so there is no one I can ask from here to be a supervisory reference. What can I do/how should I address this?

    2. Oxford Coma*

      I just put the name/title of my supervisor when I was there. Let the reference checker call and find out for themselves. Technically I know that those people are gone, but they were there when I left, and a job description can’t possibly include keeping track of an org chart after quitting/being downsized.

  199. Oxford Coma*

    I’ve heard of “please don’t print if you don’t have to” green requests, but this is a new one to me:

    “Please consider the environment when forwarding or responding to this message. Electronic communications have an environmental footprint as well due to the energy intensity of the required infrastructure.”

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Jeez, that almost sounds like a joke or something. Maybe they did it for April fools … On the other hand I wish I could ask people to think about *my personal energy* before they CC/BCC me on everything they send :P

    2. SpiderLadyCEO*

      That is…unique…I wonder if they they have data for exactly how much power each digital message takes up, or if it was just a joke.

    3. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I have an 8TB NAS server at home, and it doesn’t draw any more electricity when full than when empty. (I’ve got about 5TB of DVDs and Blu-rays ripped to it.)

    4. Seriously?*

      That is bizarre. The infrastructure is there whether you forward an e-mail or not. I hope its a joke.

    5. All Anon*

      I would love to have a footer that says “Please consider my mental and emotional energy before replying with something stupid that sucks my soul out of my body”

    6. JennyFair*

      I often speak of sending an email as ‘inconveniencing some electrons’. But I know, for instance, that when someone at the very large company I worked at emailed every single employee in error, and people began replying all, and then one person sent a picture of a can of spam via reply all, that it did put an unusual burden on the infrastructure. There is an added power draw when moving information, I just don’t know that it’s a large enough burden to consider on an email-by-email basis.

  200. SpiderLadyCEO*

    I AM SO GLAD it’s open thread day.

    Advice: My home office is hiring for a certain position. I told my boss I wasn’t interested…but nowwwww maybe I am. Cons: I would have to move before my lease is up, I would be ending this job before it’s contract.

    pros: using my degree, I like the girl in the department, job security (this job doesn’t have a deadline) being closer to my parents.

    I don’t know if I should apply!!!!

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Up to you, but IMO it’s almost always a good call to apply (unless your boss would be shocked to learn that you were looking) and find out more so you can make a good decision if you receive an offer.

      1. SpiderLadyCEO*

        I don’t think she would be shocked? We are encouraged to apply within the office for other jobs, since in my department the position is temporary, and we do hire from within.

        I’m just anxious about it! The moving/cutting my contract early are the parts that are stressing me the most, so it’s not even like I can ask about it.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          If you apply, what’s the worst thing that could happen? You either don’t get an offer or you get an offer and decide to turn it down.

          I say go for it.

        2. AnotherHRPro*

          Don’t worry about the moving and contract yet. There is no sense wasting energy on things that may or may not be an issue. Go ahead and apply and when and if you get it, you can deal with those issues. Good luck!

        3. Seriously?*

          Apply and see if it is worth it. Don’t worry about the logistics yet. If you get enough money to break the lease, then go for it. Also, since you are applying at the same company, they would know that it is cutting your contract short and won’t offer you the position if that would be a problem.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Apply! Maybe you could negotiate them covering the breaking of your lease as part of you accepting the role.

      1. DivineMissL*

        Apply and find out more about the job. You can always say no if it doesn’t seem like it would work for you. The pain of moving/breaking the lease are short-term; think about the long-term benefits beyond that. After the dust settled, would you be better off than you are now?

    3. SoSo*

      For your lease, you might be able to get out of it early without any issue. I had a stipulation in my previous lease that we couldn’t move out early, but I did within 90 days of the end date and they were very understanding and actually refunded me part of the month I paid for but wasn’t living there. You may also be able to sub-let the apartment if they allow it?

      1. Judy (since 2010)*

        Back when I was in an apartment, the standard lease in my state included a clause that allowed me to break the lease with a one month penalty if my job moved more than 50 miles away.

  201. Lumos*

    I have a very unclear work dress code. Bought a calvin klein dress from macy’s, brought in a picture of it before hand to make sure it was okay. Seriously, we are a library, what does it even mean that a dress is “too joyful”? So confused

      1. Lumos*

        It’s a calvin klein fit and flare dress with a floral pattern. And I’m short, so it comes down to my ankles. But apparently it’s a sundress because of the pattern and it’s too joyful. Literal quote from me asking. “I think it’s too joyful”

    4. amanda_cake*

      This is really strange to me–is the dress in a really “loud” pattern that might be too wild for some offices? I love patterned stuff. I’m sure my boss would prefer that I wear more neutral tones, but I don’t think women’s clothing is a hill he’s willing to die on unless it’s super unprofessional.

      1. Lumos*

        It’s mostly beige-white-ish. and then it has a floral pattern. I have two different versions of it, with slightly different floral patterns. I don’t think it’s very loud, especially since I’d be wearing a plain cardigan over it.

    5. The Ginger Ginger*

      Are they….are they objecting to the color? The pattern? Is reading NOT supposed to be joyful? Can they point to the rule in the handbook that says NO JOY? Because that is pretty ridiculous. It sounds like someone’s on a weird power trip or something and has FEELINGS about how a REAL library should be run. i.e. Suurrrrrriously.

      1. Lumos*

        I asked because I didn’t find anything in the actual dress code policy or our accompanying guidelines that was like it. I’m not sure exactly what part is too joyful, although they did say they thought it was a sundress. (I could’ve gotten a much thinner, not made out of what I fondly call business dress material actual sundress for way less than I paid for this.) I’m still going to wear it at home, but I’m baffled

        1. Seriously?*

          Does the person who said it is “too joyful” have any power to enforce this bizarre dress code or are they just giving you their opinion. Because I don’t think that is a thing.

    6. The Librarian (not the type from TNT)*

      That’s incredibly bizarre. In every library I’ve ever worked — public library, archive, academic — the dress code literally has been “anything goes.”

      1. Lumos*

        Sadly, this library system is going in the opposite direction of that. We used to have a looser dress code but when the board re-evaluated we got a much stricter one. I’m tempted to send each of them an anonymous copy of “This is what a Librarian Looks like”

      1. Lumos*

        Our dress code guidelines are very…subjective and arbitrary? I didn’t find anything that said I wouldn’t be able to wear it, but wanted to double check. We have a rule about ‘distracting’ clothes patterns or color with no real guideline on what constitutes distracting.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I think this is one of those situations where it’s better to ask forgiveness than permission.

    8. EmKay*

      Um. This is the first time I’ve seen the term “joyful” used as a negative. Wtf.

      Also you say this person described it as a sundress. Is it sleeveless? Maybe throw a neutral cardigan over it to “tone it down”?

      ALSO is this person in charge of enforcing the dress code or are they just making sure you know They Disapprove of your dress? Because if it’s the latter, kindly tell them to go suck an egg.

      1. Lumos*

        It is sleeveless. I’d actually already planned on the cardigan because our building is freezing 24/7. But since I got a no on it, I’m thinking it would be unwise to risk it even with a cardigan.

        They do have the standing to enforce it, I just found the term used incredibly bizarre and our overall guidelines are so subjective and vague that it’s difficult.

        1. Bibliovore*

          Since you got a “no” let it go for now but seriously.
          I went on Amazon and looked at the dress.
          I thought THIS dress with a cardigan WAS the dress code for the now librarian!

          1. Lumos*

            Every opinion I solicited before buying it said that it looked like something for a librarian! I figured I’d be in the clear, but checked to be safe.

      2. Geillis D*

        Remember the LW whose boss considered ruching on maternity outfits “unprofessional”?
        Gotta love policing women’s outfits.

        1. Lumos*

          My male coworker is campaigning for the right to wear his kilt right now. I’m wishing him luck but doubting it’s going to come to anything.

          1. Geillis D*

            As long as it’s a professional kilt… I’m all for it. Nothing like a nice hairy male legs to brighten up an office.

    9. PB*

      As a librarian, I’m bothered by the idea that an outfit can be “too joyful.” Are we supposed to make our patrons feel depressed? Maybe I should throw out all my colorful floral patterns and switch to baggy khakis all the time.

      2. Lumos*

        When our dress code made the switch to the current stricter version, we all complained and expressed serious concerns. But nothing has come from it. :(

      3. fposte*

        I genuinely looked to see if there was a sad emoji dress. Sadly, there wasn’t, so now I’m meta-sad.

    10. The Ginger Ginger*

      Are you in a public library or like a law library or something more academic? Because if it’s the first, I’m more irked by this the more I think about it. I always felt like the library was supposed to be a safe place as a kid (it had that safe place designation sign and everything). In an environment where quiet is kind of enforced anyway the thought of approaching a super dour looking librarian seems like it would be really daunting for a kid who needs help (whether it be finding a book or something more serious). Approachability seems like it would be really important, and a “joyful” outfit would go a long way to signalling someone was open to helping when the atmosphere may otherwise feel a little intimidating.

      1. Lumos*

        We are a public library. Those were some of the concerns we expressed when the dress code was changed to be stricter. But the basic response we got was that if we weren’t happy we should go work elsewhere.

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          Wow, what a ridiculous way to respond to that concern. It’s not about being happy or not about the decision. And the feedback that an outfit is too joyful makes that especially ironic. Ugh. Sorry this is their mindset. And the implication that a library is not an appropriate place for joy is just….yuck.

          I would go buy a bunch of neon highlighter bright cardigans to wear over gray and black outfits just to be contrary. No patterns, just seer your eyeballs bright colors.

  202. HRH The Duke of Coriander and Gomasio*

    The salary for the out of state position I interviewed today is the same salary I am making now. New area is a really high COL so I will more than likely decline a request for second interview. I’m not really bummed out since I didn’t really invest emotionally in the position as I normally would.

  203. Sunflower*

    Hi- I’m covering for a coworker who is on vacation. My coworker just had someone start under her last week. My coworker asked me to be a reference if the new girl had questions and to show her how to do a few simple tasks. I met with the new girl, and my coworker seems to have messed this up. The girls desk wasn’t fully set up and she didn’t have access to everything she needed or know where to get things. The work she was given was also in my opinion overly advanced and she was struggling with it. She was very anxious about her new job, I explained things again and will continue to meet and help her until my coworker is back. What should I do after that? Is this something to talk to a higher up about (my coworker and I don’t report to the same person) or just tell my coworker what happened and butt out?

    1. katkat*

      I would start by saying something to your coworker directly. Maybe she was pre-occupied with getting last minute things done before her vacation and didn’t fully realize that the new employee didn’t have what she needed?
      If you want to, you could check in with the new employee about a week after her normal manager is back, and then see if you want to do anything further if she still has concerns.

  204. Ann Furthermore*

    I posted up-thread that I got an offer for a new job earlier in the week. Woo hoo! For anyone job searching who’s 50 or older, I would advise getting rid of all experience prior to 2000 on your resume and LinkedIn profile. Also, remove the graduation dates from your resume, if they’re on there. Once I did that, I got a lot more responses. I’m also happy to report that the hiring process took about 3 weeks from the time I submitted my resume to the time I had an offer letter. Last time I was job searching, it took almost 6 months.

    1. foolofgrace*

      Some of my most relevant experience (12 years at BigInternationalCompany) just fits in under the deadline, but it is not unusual for me to be asked what year I graduated college. I graduated later in life, I was 28, but that still puts me in a Bad Category as I’m now 62. Pooh. Congrats to you!

      1. Ann Furthermore*

        I had a few extra years between graduating from high school (’85) and graduating from college (’93), so for awhile, those dates worked to my advantage because they made me appear younger than I actually am. But now there’s no denying it…I’m an old fart. I had to fill out a formal application during the interview process, and was pleasantly surprised to see no sneaky, backhanded ways to try and guess my age…I gave the information for where I went to school, but it did not request graduation dates. I didn’t have to provide that until I filled out the background check form, and that came after I accepted the offer.

    2. Woman of a Certain Age*

      This is pretty much what I did. I stopped listing any experience more than 10 years ago, earlier than 2008. I get a lot more interviews, but sometimes I can see a bit of a look of surprise when people meet me for the first time and I think it is because they were expecting a younger person.

  205. EmKay*

    You guys. I’m mostly a lurker here and I’ve never posted on a Friday thread, but what the hell.

    I am on day 5 of a new job after close to seven months of unemployment/searching, and it’s going really, really well. It’s an admin position in a worldwide engineering firm, and I am part of a 2 admin support team for this particular department. I am getting along famously with the other admin so far, which is great, because we basically work as one, plus we are cubicle neighbours. She has already dubbed us “the dream team” and has repeatedly stated how happy she is that I’m working here (she was alone and overwhelmed for months).

    So yeah. Things are finally looking up and I’m super excited about it :)

    4. Future Analyst*

      Yay! Feeling like it’s a good fit is such a relief. :) Glad you’ve had a great first week!!

  206. Detective Amy Santiago*

    Had a bit of schadenfreude the other day – found out the manager and VP who made my life a living hell at ToxicOldJob got walked out. Haven’t been able to find out any details yet, but I’m hoping it was because they were unethical and only cared about numbers instead of people.

  207. The Silence*

    I’m having a rough day with office noise. I share an office with two women. We’re all lawyers that have to think deeply and with nuance about legal issues. Our job is 100% writing stuff. Well someone from another department that is not a lawyer just came by and had a ONE HOUR social conversation with the two women about dogs, babies, house shopping, and picking her college major! I think I just lost my mind. The visitor just monologued for an hour. Why can’t we just work from home when this happens. My job does not require or involve interaction with anyone at all, ever. Headphones don’t help as the white noise is grating.

    1. N Twello*

      That’s annoying! You should probably lightly mention it. For example, “I had some trouble getting X done because of that long visit by Whosit.” But here are some ideas for coping in future:
      -Go sit somewhere else temporarily. Reserve a meeting room when this happens?
      -Listen to music. Find music that you can work to – probably instrumental.
      -Get used to noise cancelling headphones.
      -Train yourself to not be distracted by talking. (I did that.)
      -If you can’t beat em, join em.
      -Let it go on for a while, and then say in a light tone, “Hey can you guys take this to the kitchen? I need to get this work done.”

      1. foolofgrace*

        I’ve used that last suggestion about taking their conversation somewhere else to be quite effective, just do say it in a light friendly tone.

  208. Gumbyjune*

    I left the workforce a little over a decade ago to be a stay at home mom. I’m reentering the work force but I’ve encountered something weird. A lot of potential employers want “personal references”. Applications state they can’t be anyone I’m related to or that I’ve worked with. Is this normal? Who do you put down for these references? Just friends?

    One job I’m very interested in has an online application that has to be filled out and there is no way to skip this page. After receiving my resume, HR called me and said they would like to set up an interview but I have to finish their application first. I’m at a loss for who to put down.

    1. amanda_cake*

      I don’t think that is normal. I haven’t encountered it. I would list friends, family friends, maybe someone from church if you attend? That’s a tough one.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      That sounds like it might be very field-specific. I can’t imagine asking for personal references but not professional ones (although it is typical to not allow relatives to be references), since you’re likely to put down friends and do they ever talk to a friend reference and have it be useful in any way? But if that’s what they want, I think friends are your best bet.

      The weird one I encountered was an application that requires me to list full contact info for three references (including colleagues, not just superiors) and will auto-send them a short survey to fill out about specific skills I have pertaining to the job when I submit the application. That is all before my application is even reviewed, and apparently they will also want to have conversations with my references if things proceed. I get that this is probably normal for this type of work, but it’s a new process to me.

    3. OtterB*

      I’m not sure what the purpose of this is either, except for cases where there’s going to be some kind of background investigation. But, friends, neighbors if you’ve been in one location for a while, maybe parents of your kids’ friends if you’ve hung out on the soccer sidelines with them?

    4. All Anon*

      I had a friend who would list me because we were girl scout co-leaders. At least I could speak to creativity and organizational skills in that context. I’ve never run into being asked for a personal reference but she worked retail (store or shift management level) and it came up a couple of times.

    5. A Nickname for AAM*

      Are you applying for a job that involves working around children or the elderly?

      At my work, we require 1 personal reference of a close friend/family member because someone in risk management found out that, while many people won’t come out and say directly that it makes them uncomfortable that Creepy Uncle Joe applied to coach youth baseball, they will hesitate or hint at things when asked things like, “Would you leave Joe in charge of your child? What experience does Joe have with children? Have you seen Joe interact with children? How does he discipline children?”

  209. Geillis D*

    Last day of tax craziness here (officially it’s Monday but my awesome office has decided we are done today so everyone can enjoy their weekend). In 3-4 hours I’ll be tackling a drink or three at the neighbourhood pub. Another tax season under my belt.

  210. Anon in a toxic world*

    I know some coworkers don’t like me since I have started my job, but I’m still nice to them even though I know this. The one who sits near me doesn’t like me but we still make small talk. (I heard her bashing me to the boss and others.) I just smile and try not to let it get to me. Does anyone else experience this? How do u not let it get to you?

    1. Geillis D*

      Oh, no. I’m so sorry you have to go through this. I had this at OldJob. It was a very small office and the person I was rubbing the wrong way was Queen Bee. Truthfully, that was one of my biggest motivations to move on. In the meantime, I psyched myself towards a goal – in my case, a professional designation but could be really anything you want to accomplish. Eyes on the prize and hope you find a true friend in the office.

  211. PTO*

    I took off a half day for an appointment with my doctor for my eye. I told my boss and my coworker that I work with. When I got back, other people were asking me how my eye was. I don’t care, but isn’t this private?

    3. Cranky*

      I think it depends on workplace culture. There’s no legal/policy protection unless your workplace has a policy in particular.

  212. BookCocoon*

    My supervisor has been here for a little over a year now. We had a very rough start because she is extremely insecure and it manifested itself in angrily disagreeing with everything I said, even — or especially — when I was trying to give her background on things she would need to know for her job.

    We had a mediation with our director in August and things have been going decently well since then. Like enough that I’m still casually looking for another job but am not about to ragequit.

    However, we keep having these kinds of conversations:

    Her: I need you to do X.
    Me: OK… Here’s why we haven’t done X in the past. Here’s why we’ve done Y instead. Here’s what it’s going to affect if we do X.
    Her [getting annoyed]: Other Department wants us to do X. So just do X.
    Me (later): OK, if we’re doing X now, here are all the questions I have about the processes these is going to affect.
    Her: It seemed like that was an uncomfortable conversation earlier. Are you angry?
    Me: No, it’s just that if we’re doing X now, it’s affecting A, B, and C, so I need to know how to proceed.
    Her: Well, I didn’t KNOW it affected A, B, and C. I didn’t know ANYTHING about this process [as if it’s my fault I never explained it to her]. I don’t think I did ANYTHING with this last year.
    Me: No, probably not, since it is unrelated to your job. The whole process falls under my responsibilities.
    In my head: Which is why I don’t understand why you’re just unilaterally making a decision and then ignoring everything I say about the larger context!!

    1. animaniactoo*

      May I make a suggestion?

      Your start is opposing what she wants/has decided to do before she even gets more info in or can update you on why she’s made that decision. It’s basically taking it out of her hands and telling her it’s not a good decision for her to be making – but in a way that sounds like it assumes she’s clueless (even if that’s correct! – an insecure manager is not going to react well to this).

      Have you tried doing this?

      “Okay, let me see what that’s going to affect, and I’ll come back to you with a list and you can advise how you’d like to handle it.” (even if you know the list off the top of your head – better to go away and give her a “process” break, and for you to have time to think about your delivery structure).

      Or, “Hmmm, we don’t usually do it that way because of the things it will affect. Can I get you a list for review before we move forward with this?”

      1. BookCocoon*

        To me, there’s a difference between “This is why we don’t do that” and “Here’s what it’s going to affect.”

        So if she were to say, “Let’s send all the llamas to the field at noon” and I said, “Oh, actually, that’s the time that the lions are in the field, and the one time we tried that six llamas got killed,” I would expect her to say either, “Oh, then let me reconsider the llama time,” or “Oh, hmm, can we change the time the lions are there?” Instead she just gets upset that I’m “arguing” with her and tells me to do it anyway. At that point I switch gears and come up with questions, like, “What steps do you suggest we take to prevent llama deaths, given that the lions will be there at the same time? Or are we willing to lose some llamas because it’s critical that they’re out there at noon?” She sees this as continuing to argue with her about her decision, whereas I see as trying to do my job, which is, say, keeping llamas alive.

        1. animaniactoo*

          Right – I’m suggesting you switch gears to begin with.

          You’re not going to change her and what you’re currently doing is just frustrating YOU until you get to the point of switching gears, and getting her upset and defensive to boot. By the time you’ve switched gears, she’s already entrenched in the idea (and she’s correct here!) that your new question is just another angle of attack on questioning her original decision.

          So retread. You can’t change her. But you can change how *you* react to her. Even if in your head it’s the wrong way to go about it. It’s a “know your audience and adapt to them” kind of skill.

          I mean, you could even approach from the standpoint of asking her the question you’re expecting her to ask “The lions are there then – can we switch them to another time so the llamas don’t get killed? That’s what happened in the past when they were both there at the same time.”

          Don’t get so entrenched in the idea that there’s a scripted right kind of response she should be giving you in reply – she’s a human, humans rarely read from the script in our head. Step out of that, look at HER, and see what you can do differently that might sidetrack *her* now script in her head of how you reply when she tells you to do something.

    2. Teapot librarian*

      As the supervisor in a very similar sounding situation, I want to point out that even if the process falls under your responsibilities, her responsibilities include making sure your responsibilities go well and align with the rest of the mission of the organization. So you are absolutely justified in explaining that doing X will affect A, B, and C, and your supervisor should not get snotty, but you also are probably not doing yourself any favors by saying that something is unrelated to her job.
      I hope that X, Y, and A, B, and C get worked out and that things improve for you.

      1. BookCocoon*

        Fair enough. I don’t use those exact words, and it’s more in a friendly tone of “Of course no one expected you to know this! It’s actually my job.” She gets super defensive about how it’s not her fault that she didn’t know things, so I try to make it clear that I don’t care that she didn’t know it before… but that’s why explaining the context to her so she knows it NOW is not the same thing as telling her she’s wrong.

        1. Teapot librarian*

          Ah, you see, I have an employee who DID use those exact words. So I’m a bit touchy about this :-)

    3. Undine*

      Maybe giving some time between when she asks and when you respond. Like,
      Her: “I want the llamas out by noon.”
      You: “Okay, I’ll look into that.”
      [Next Day]
      You: “I did some research into that llamas-at-noon thing and it turns out the lions are in the field at noon. Is there any chance there might be some impact from that? Dalai over in the lion department says we’ve had some problems with the lion lying down with the llama, with negative gustatory outcomes.* Do you want me to look into that further?”
      (Do this by email, or mention it and walk away. Give her time to think about it and come up with questions.)

      * Negative for the llamas. The lions found the outcomes very yummy.

  213. Green Machine*

    Alison, is there any chance you’ll be posting a list of the best comments on the weirdest things people included on their resume? That was perhaps the funniest thread I’d ever seen.

  214. How to Negotiate a W2 Contract*

    I accepted a job offer for a temporary position a few months ago that was newly created and therefore had no real job description. At the time, the recruiter said they were looking for 3 people to do basically the same administrative work, and that was why I wouldn’t be able to negotiate my rate (I found out she lied and the other two are getting paid more than I do – distressing since I can say with confidence I’m more skilled and productive than both of them).

    Now that I know how the workload division actually is like, is there any way to go to the recruiter with my actual tasks and ask for an increased rate? Of the 3 people hired for these positions, I’m the one my manager relies on the most. Surely that counts for something?

  215. Completely Anon*

    I don’t know if this goes here or tomorrow’s thread.

    I called my company’s EAP today for help. If I needed substance abuse counseling, they would have a program for me. My problems are emotional. They gave me a list of 4 therapists in my zip code, one of which I have a bad history with. They don’t provide any financial assistance for the counseling and couldn’t tell me if the therapists they recommended took our insurance.

    I heard such wonderful things on here about EAPs. It was a crash when I got off the phone. I thought I was going to get help and I got a short list of therapists I don’t trust because of who is in it.

    1. mags*

      Can you call your own list of therapists and ask them if they take your insurance? That’s what I’ve done in the past. Trust your own instincts here. There’s no issue with making the insurance the first part of a conversation with a therapist.

    2. All Anon*

      Yeah, had my own bad experience with an EAP recently after years of telling employees how awesome they are. In my case my young adult daughter who is on my insurance but lives out of state was in crisis. I had her call (they provide intervention counseling of up to 4 phone visits) and they promptly told her that because she does not live at home she is not eligible. Nothing in their materials even remotely inferred that she had to be living at home to get help and a week later my employers’ HR department convinced them she was eligible and apologized to me. By then we had moved on and found a counselor who takes insurance but it took two weeks to get an appointment and the whole thing defeated the purpose of a crisis intervention benefit. i told my employer that if one of the purposes of their benefits offering was to help employees be productive they scored an F since I subsequently spent hours at work looking for alternatives.

  216. mags*

    Late to the party, but what would you do if you found out a coworker was a creationist and a flat-earther? I found out that someone I networked with a couple months ago was a big-time religious guy who believes in these things when he initiated a conversation with me on a Facebook comment thread (I know, I should have kept work and personal life separate). The problem is that a friend of mine and my boyfriend both work with him and saw this conversation. They’ve both expressed extreme doubts about his abilities now. Obviously this doesn’t matter to me, but should they try to completely ignore this side of him? The issue is we all work in a very science-based field, otherwise we’d all of course ignore this. But it does make us doubt his judgment that could very well affect his work decisions. What do we all do with this?

    1. Anon Reply*

      I think religious beliefs and work abilities should be kept completely separate. There are geniuses in every religious sector. What someone believes personally shouldn’t be taken into account unless he works at NASA and believes in a flat Earth or any other sector where his beliefs can directly affect his work. If he works in IT and believes in a flat Earth then I would ignore his personal beliefs and treat them as an irrelevant personal choice.

  217. Cranky*

    Here’s an “am I being reasonable?” question. When travelling for work, would you expect your job to pay for your transportation to dinner? It’s a week long trip, and there are two diner options and one hotel restaurant that could be accessed without cost (on foot). Does your workplace have an obligation (moral/human obligation, not legal obligation) to help you access some variety or non-greasy food?

    1. LadyKelvin*

      No, when I travel for work I get per diem. The work will pay for my travel between the meeting location and my hotel, but anything “extra” would be part of my per diem allowance. However, if you get dinner near the meeting location the trip back to the hotel would be expense-able. Often times, that is why I prefer to rent a car than take public transit/taxis, because all the gas and the car are covered and I can go where ever I want for dinner. I’m government, for reference.

      1. Cranky*

        That’s helpful. Renting a car is not an option, they won’t pay for it. And the per diem is really minimal, wouldn’t cover dinner + uber to dinner. It’s making me grumpy!

    2. amanda_cake*

      I get a per diem and charge the food on my company card. I have a rental car, so I can drive to eat wherever I want. Since I travel to remote places, I expect them to pay for transportation to dinner–which isn’t a problem since I have a rental car.

      I work in higher ed.

    3. De Minimis*

      My employer generally pays for incidental travel during a work event. I’ve routinely seen reimbursements for Uber, Lyft, etc. for travel that wasn’t ground transportation to/from the airport. Our events tend to be in bigger cities, though, so these costs are pretty minimal.

    4. Beatrice*

      I get a rental car. I’d also be allowed to expense a taxi ride. But the one site I visit has *no* food options within a 15 minute radius except a gas station that has junk food – there, I can run to the grocery store when I land and get food for a few days.

  218. Ugh*

    Coworker that I (unfortunately) work with loves causing drama and spreading gossip. Any tips to surviving this personality? I think she tries to aim it at me but I ignore it. (Or try to.)

  219. Jennifer*

    I’m supposed to have a private meeting with the new Big Boss next week. Do I honestly tell her about all the problems I’ve been having (bullying, ostracizing, many broken things, can’t ever advance) or lie and be Positive! and Cheerful!? It *sounds* like she wants to know honestly, but I don’t know the woman at all other than “she seems nice” and I have no idea how to handle this. I probably can’t be as blunt as I want to be, but should I just lie altogether about my happiness level since she’s asking?

    1. Kathenus*

      If this was just Big Boss versus ‘New’ Big Boss, I’d say a lot depends on your relationship with them how open you are. Since you likely don’t know this person well, it’s harder to make that call.

      My recommendation would be to come up with – for yourself at least – a list of the main positives things in the company/job and the main challenges. Look at these, and they might help you develop some talking points and priorities to bring up during the meeting. It also helps you focus on both the good and the bad, so you’re not just thinking about or sharing negative issues.

      For the challenges, which ones are most important, which impact your ability to do your work or your job satisfaction the most? And most critically, which ones are (relatively easily) fixable by this new boss? If you could share some of the things you like best about the organization and your role there, and examples of things that work really well; and then share one or two frustrations or challenges with potential solutions with your new boss, it might be a very constructive opportunity.

      Thinking of the goals of the meeting as 1) establishing a positive foundation for your relationship with this new boss, and 2) opening the door for communication about the positive aspects and challenges you face. The goal doesn’t have to be to give them every good or bad thing you can think of, just opening the doors of communication with one or two actionable items as well as positive observations.

      Good luck!

  220. Mrs. Griswold*

    I have a funny story that always runs through my mind every now and then. I was job searching in college and was desperate for anything to help me pay for extra expenses. I went on a vague interview from a posting on Craigslist. It stated something along the lines of: Customer Service job interacting with customers etc.
    I got to the interview location and it immediately seemed weird from the outside. It looked like one of many offices in a 1 story plaza. Every other company had their name on the outside and had clear windows with open blinds. The address I was to go to had no name on the outside and and blacked out windows.
    I go in and am directed to sit down in a room. Slowly other applicants come in and we’re all directed to fill out a generic work history application. A man then comes in and begins giving a speech about a customer service position, dealing with customers, how the company has been in business for decades. An antsy man asks: What’s the name of the company? The man giving us the speech says we’ll get to that in a minute. Everyone looks at each other and becomes even more suspicious and weirded out. Finally, towards the end of the speech he says “and that’s why here at (annoying door to door vacuum selling company) we strive for…..”. Everyone groaned unanimously and began to walk out on the speaker. The guy that initially asked what the company was even grumbled a few curse words.

    Now that I look back it was hilarious. The speaker didn’t even flinch, it was as if that’s the reaction he gets EVERY time people find out the company. They proceeded to call me for weeks attempting to get me to accept a position.

  221. Drama Llama*

    I’m dealing with a toxic employee and need some advice. The best way to describe him is that is a shit stirrer. For example he has been threatening to quit every year to get a pay raise. This year his manager simply said “I’m sorry to hear you’re leaving, please submit your resignation in writing.” He then told several people Manager is threatening to fire him unfairly. When Manager confronted him and asked why he said this, he got defensive and denied ever saying that. Then he yelled at her and said she was bullying him, and he “knows his rights” and also “several lawyer friends.”

    We’ve received multiple complaints about him slacking off during busy times, bitching about staff he’s meant to train, being rude to new employees, etc. When I confront him he flat out denies all those issues. It’s hard to constructively deal with the problems we have with him when he just denies them. “I never said that.” “No I never did that.” “I don’t know why she said that about me it’s not true.”

    (Side note, I cannot fire him because of the complicated employment laws in my country – I am trying to manage him out but need to be super careful about it as he is the kind of person who will sue just for a payout.)

    1. Still really needs a new username*

      I had a similar problem with an employee and am also in a country with strong employment laws.

      If your employees make formal complaints about him/his behaviour (in writing), you should be able to put together a picture of his behaviour. It’s hard work but worth it in the end. In my case we ended up, on legal advice, coming to the employee with folders of the allegations, with the names redacted in her version, and asked her to explain why she thought some of the undeniable behaviours (we had a two-witness complaint, a social media vague-blog that had been screencapped, and a nasty note that was meant to be anonymous but was in what was clearly her handwriting) were appropriate and let her know that our decision on her employment hinges on her answers. She wasn’t able to explain these and we terminated her that day. As I said, it was a lot of hard work but worth it in the end.

    3. Serious Sam*

      Surely your manager can state that “Due to the difficult financial situation the board has decided that we need a written resignation before we can generate a counter-offer.” Then either he gets no pay rise, or he writes that sweet sweet resignation letter.

  222. N.J.*

    I was laid off on Monday. I’m 18 1/2 weeks pregnant and will be showing any day now. I have some severance and will be able to use unemployment. I just need to hear from someone on this thread what is was like interviewing, how long it took them to find a job, whether they ended up staying home with their kid for a long time etc. after being laid off while pregnant. It’s been a long fucking week already.

  224. MCC*

    I just started a new job about 2 months ago. When I was hired, I was told vacation time doesn’t start until 6 months after your hire date. I assumed this to mean *paid* vacation time doesn’t start until 6 months after. I put in a time-off request on our company calendar recently to take one day off next week to be there for moral support when a family member has surgery with the intention of taking this day unpaid (I’m a non-exempt employee paid hourly if that matters). The other day I got an email from my manager saying my time off request was rejected because vacation time doesn’t start until 6 months after hire. I emailed back for clarification to ask if they distinguish between paid and unpaid time off, and if I was allowed to take unpaid time off prior to the 6 months mark. I got a response back from my manager that she didn’t know and would have to get back to me about it. I was later told to ask the head of HR about my request in person—it’s a small, family-owned company of less than 30 employees and the head of HR is the owner’s wife . I haven’t had a chance to speak to HR about my request yet but I wanted to know if it is typical of a company to not allow any time off (even unpaid) within the first 6 months of hire. I know legally they’re not required to give any vacation time.

    1. Future Analyst*

      Unfortunately this is not unheard of. Some companies will let you take the time unpaid, but in my experience, most won’t let you take any time off until you’ve hit the 6 month mark (unless you raise it as you’re negotiating your start date). Do you have the option to work remotely that day?

    2. bb-great*

      I’ve never heard of this being a hard and fast rule, but generally I think people do wait several months to take time off, and maybe this company has just made it official policy. I still think it would be worth bringing up since it’s only 1 day and it’s for a family matter. Good luck!

  225. Annonymouse*

    I’m being hassled by a coworker regarding my taste in music and I was hoping I could get some sage words of advice from y’all.

    “Sansa” and I share an office and have done so for a little over two years. While we have very little in common besides both being women of color, we do both have a lot of passion for the work our employer, a small nonprofit, does, are generally considerate about sharing the space. We got along well enough until earlier this month when this utterly ridiculous drama began.

    I had gone into the office early to finish editing a grant proposal that was due at noon that day. Because I was there well before anyone else was due into the office I elected to listen to music without headphones, which is my usual habit. Unfortunately, Sansa got to work twenty minutes or so before I was expecting her and as I was in the rest room when she arrived I wasn’t able to turn my music off before she heard it. I apologized, connected my headphones, and went back to work. I didn’t think twice about it and it didn’t seem like a big deal to me.

    Several hours later Sansa said something to me along the lines of “I can’t believe you like country, that’s so weird.” I laughed and said that I knew it was a little unusual, but my dad had gotten into the genre when he was in the military and I’d grown up listening to it. She repeated that it was “just so weird”, which made me a little uncomfortable, but I changed the subject to an upcoming event that our agency is preparing for and the moment passed. Later that day I came back from lunch to find that she was listening to music without headphones, which was unusual for her. She didn’t put her headphones on or turn the music down until I asked if she would mind doing so. She said “Oh, sorry, I didn’t think you’d mind after this morning” and turned it off. I thought it was a little odd and passive aggressive but I chalked it up to her having a bad day or being in a bad mood as it was atypical behavior for her, and I didn’t say anything.

    A few weeks later we were in the break room with several other coworkers who were discussing Beyonce’s performance at Coachella. Someone asked me what I’d thought of it and I hadn’t watched it but that I’d heard it was amazing and wasn’t surprised because she’s always a dynamic performer. Sansa then started laughing and told the group that “You can’t expect Arya to have decent opinions about music, she only listens to country. And she asked me to turn Stevie Wonder off!” The whole group started laughing like it was a joke, but when I didn’t join in someone asked me if that was true. I said that yes, in addition to a lot of other things, I do like country. Someone else said “But you do like Beyonce, right?” I said that she wasn’t my favorite artist, but yes, I do like several of her songs. Sansa chimed in again at this point to say “But I bet you like Taylor Swift!” I said that she also wasn’t my favorite, but yes, I like several of her songs too. The rest of the group laughed, someone asked if if there was anyone I liked beyond several of their songs, and I laughed, and said “Yes, Dolly Parton and the Wu Tang Clan”, got another round of laughter, and the conversation shifted away from me and my musical preferences.

    The problem is that over the last several weeks, Sansa has made multiple snide and needling comments to and about me on the subject. For instance, when she found out that I was going to visit my parents she hummed a bit of the Dueling Banjos music from Deliverance and told me “I hope it’s a safe trip!”, when we were in an informal meeting about our upcoming event with a few coworkers and I was given the task of coming up with a playlist of background music, she “jokingly” said “But remember, nobody else likes yodeling!”, and when that Waffle House was shot up last week she commented that “Gosh, country music must’ve made him violent.” When I said “Excuse me?” and gave her a pointed look she justified it with “I was being sarcastic, I mean, doesn’t music or video games always get blamed with someone goes on a shooting spree?”

    After that last exchange I waited to calm down and later told her that I didn’t appreciate her ongoing comments about my musical taste and would like her to stop. She huffily said “I was just teasing you” but agreed that she would lay off. I thought that she would leave it alone but then yesterday there was a break room conversation about Kanye West. Sansa’s contribution to the conversation was “He’s still better than Taylor Swift. Team Yeezy for life!” while looking straight at me. Given the ongoing issues between Taylor Swift and Kanye I suppose that it’s possible that it wasn’t a dig, but given her current behavior I just can’t shake the feeling that it was intended as such.

    I have been reluctant to talk to our supervisor about this as she’s the kind of manager who is very hands off with regards to interpersonal conflict (her stance is that we’re all adults and she expects us to act like it and work out our differences in a mature manner) but I think I may have to as I’m starting to dread going in to work. Does anyone have any advice on how to address it without it sounding like I’m whining about “Sansa is teasing me, make her stawwwwwwp”?

    1. Annonymouse*

      EDIT: good lord, the Waffle House comment was on Monday. My apologies, it’s been a very long week with a churning news cycle.

    2. fposte*

      Wow, that is weird and annoying. I would try the conversation again when she brings it up again. “Sansa, I asked you to let go of the musical differences thing, but you’ve brought it up again. Can you tell me why this troubles you so much and what we can do to keep that out of the workplace?”

    3. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Sansa is a jerk. On multiple levels. Both because it sounds like she’s questioning your taste in music…and more importantly, your ethnicity, since it sounds like she’s saying that your taste in music means you’re not a genuine [whatever you are]. (And – as a PoC myself – I’ve heard the “oh, country isn’t for people like you” line.) Keep telling her to cut it out if it continues.

      For what it’s worth, I think the Yeezy/Tay thing has SO many other layers other than the fact that Kanye is a rapper and Taylor is a pop star who originally started out as a country music singer. (Just so you know, I started writing an aside about their most recent albums and then deleted it after it reached a full paragraph and I was still going.) But basically, I wouldn’t necessarily read too much into the “team Yeezy” comment, although I seriously hope Kim is making him sleep on the couch for what he’s done. She could genuinely like Kanye (who I think is a good rapper, a great producer, and a questionable human being)! She could be reacting to Taylor Swift’s perceived tendency to always play the victim! She could be making fun of you! Or it could be something entirely different. Although the Waffle House thing is a little shady.

      If you want to be petty about it, find the most obnoxious bro country and play it every single time in the morning when she comes in. (Don’t do this.) (Actually, do do this and report to us in the next open thread.) (But seriously, don’t do this.)

      Also, your workplace sounds stressful. You guys discuss news on the regular? I can only imagine how hellacious November 9, 2016 must have been at work, then. My God.

    4. Millennial Lawyer*

      It sounds like you did exactly what you’re supposed to do. I wouldn’t necessarily jump to the conclusion that the Taylor/Kanye was aimed at you, but you were there and I wasn’t, so I trust your senses on that. I would consider it resolved until she makes another clear comment about it. Whether to escalate depends on the nature of that comment (another extreme “joke” like the Waffle House one vs. something more benign).

    5. Wigglewomp*

      Sansa is being ridiculous. I’d go with fposte’s advice and talk to her once more, and be firmer. On the other hand, she could be doing this in what she thinks is good jest, but we all know how some jokes get old quite fast and turn into something annoying. I’d treat it as that.

    6. Temperance*

      I honestly think that it’s time that you fight fire with fire, and by that, I mean it would be hilarious if you started playing Cotton Eye Joe whenever she opens her mouth to say something stupid.

      Also, Taylor > Kanye

    7. Reader*

      Ugh! I’m really sorry that you have to deal with this. As a WOC with a diverse taste in music myself, I have been on the receiving end of this sort of thing (in my youth, but not as an adult). Sometimes you just have to be direct — sharply tell her “Back off!” or “Grow up!” in the moment of offense. The difficult part is showing that you’re drawing boundaries and not “freaking out” because she’s getting under your skin. Passive-aggressive jerks like her do not like to be called out, so she will probably feign ignorance of the underlying issue or pretend that she was only joking. Don’t let this make you question yourself or go soft the next time it happens.

  226. Still really needs a new username*

    Really feeling the need to vent right now after two staff quit on me this week. As they’ve only been working for us for six weeks they only have to give a week notice but…

    I found out about the first one midday Tuesday when HR sent me the exit interview form, and we had a public holiday on Wednesday and she had approved leave on Friday.

    The second one at no point told me she was leaving: on her last day, at around 1pm, her supervisor overheard her say to another person that it was her last day and came to me. Turns out she emailed HR while her supervisor was on lunch, so by the time HR finished their weekly meeting, I found out an hour before she left.

    Neither of these women are new to the workforce and both are in their mid-40’s. I’d forgive this as a lack of understanding of professional norms if they were some of the school leavers in their hiring cohort, but this is just ridiculous.

    1. JennyFair*

      Have you considered whether the environment might have contributed to this? Both the leaving and the not giving a darn about leaving.

      1. Still really needs a new username*

        I did discuss this with HR: I’m not the manager who hired them. He was a very nice guy but personal issues had him basically checking out on his responsibilities from about November last year. As a result, there had been an attitude of ‘anything goes’, with the school ending up dirty and the teachers unmotivated. These two new employees are part of a group of for teaching assistant trainees we hired, and their first week was his last. They’ve seen the school improve, been part of a group thanked for their work, with some appreciation bonuses being paid all around them, and some paid training in work hours. We’re only talking six weeks so there has been a lot of change and hard work, but the whole team have been clear that we work hard over this quarter with reward and appreciation, and then relax and enjoy our new procedures with support after that point.

        So… possibly? If they thought this was a school where they could be paid for not working, and then found out otherwise. They did seem to want so spend a lot of time talking to each other and were really odd about the training around the UN Convention of the rights of the child.

  227. Abelard*

    It has been a super stressful week at work, so I am so glad it is Friday and that in a little less than a month I am going on a week long vacation. I really do like my job, but sometimes you just need a break!

  228. That'sNotMyName*

    My professor in one of my education classes told us that we should be using LinkedIn and giving brochures about ourselves at the end of an interview to convey a more complete idea of who we are as people and as teachers. Has anyone in the education field experienced this? Is it a good idea, or too gimmicky?

    1. Wigglewomp*

      Brochures sounds a bit overboard. What the brochure should probably contain will most likely be conveyed a) during the interview or b) your teaching demo, and more immediate c) your cover letter. Unless the job post explicitly asks for creative ways to present yourself, I’d stick with the usual application package.

    2. Julianne (also a teacher)*

      I’m a teacher and I sit on the hiring panel for my specialty. We don’t care if you have LinkedIn, and we don’t want a brochure telling us who you are as a person/teacher. (We figure that out from the resume/phone screen/interview/demo lesson.) To be clear, if you present either of these things, we’re not going to reject you solely because of them, but they will not help your candidacy at all.

  229. freemimium anon*

    Boss: We’re not getting the subscriptions/payments we used to.
    Me: Maybe it’s because we barrage our free users with emails and that doesn’t inspire them that we’re good and they should pay us money?
    Boss: We can solve this by sending more emails, with slightly different text, that sell the same thing.
    Me: …..

  230. Regular commenter anonymising this one*

    Just looking for some general advice really. I am about to be promoted to be the team leader of my satellite office, which I’m all prepared for.

    One of my colleagues (soon to be my employee) recently came out to us as transgender. They are still figuring out what that means and so have not asked for any changes to pronouns, name, etc. What can I do as a manager to support my employee, particularly in these early stages where they are still figuring out what they need?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Tell them that if/when they are ready to start using different pronouns/name to let you know. Don’t ask about it constantly.

  231. leslie knope*

    how do you deal with coworkers who won’t cover people, but expect coverage in return? i’m dealing with one right now. they left for a couple weeks and basically left a pile of work to be done, but hedge when asked to help. so frustrating. and it’s a small team, so we don’t have a world of options if someone else can’t do it.

    1. EJ*

      Oh, I understand. One of our team members is the exact same way. He expects everyone to be “johnny on the spot” when he asks for help, but when someone else asks him for a tiny request, he gets difficult.

    2. Menacia*

      Yeah, I have one of those who whenever I ask for coverage is the ONE person never around so everyone else has to step up… And I just found out yesterday because he had his email projected during our meeting that he does not even read my emails (mine were the only ones which were unread!).

  232. EJ*

    Okay, I need advice. My coworker really made some awful remarks in front of clients and I’m not sure what to do.
    So, we had a lot of clients in town and of course that involves entertaining them. We provided transportation via a coach bus meaning we were all riding around the city together with the clients.
    While on the bus, I was sitting behind my co-worker and next to a client making small talk about our city (he wasn’t from there). During this time, my co-worker exclaimed “Oh! look out we’re riding through the ‘gay-borhood’!” while making (what i considered to be offensive) gestures/sound effects. I was mortified. The client didn’t say anything but made a weird face. I quickly changed the subject back to our previous small talk.
    Later on, when we were at our official client celebration party (where alcohol was served, to set the scene), she loudly started a conversation about her dating life and her experience with Tinder dates. Then, she started to mimic an Asian accent when discussing someone she met. This was the last straw for me. I took her aside and told her to cool it and that she should take a cab home. Thankfully she took my advice and left.
    My boss noticed none of this due to being preoccupied with other meetings so she didn’t actually witness any of the awful behavior. I’m embarrassed our clients witnessed this and what they will think of our company. Do I bring it up to my boss? If it helps, I have other co-worker witnesses who mentioned her behavior to me at the event.

    1. Alianora*

      That’s really awful! Definitely something your boss should know about, especially since it was in front of clients.

    2. Gatomon*

      WOW.

      Okay, I think you should bring this up. What your coworker said and did is highly offensive, and kudos to you for sending her home. Next step is to address it with your boss, and have any other witnesses come forward as well. I can’t imagine they wouldn’t want to know. Hopefully the client will speak up as well. What your boss will do is up to them, but this is information I think they should know about.

  233. Wigglewomp*

    I recently got fired from my job in a foreign country. It just wasn’t the right fit, and I wasn’t performing as well (role-wise and culture-wise). It got to the point where I was very depressed and lost confidence in all my abilities. The firing was done nicely and they were considerate about it, so all is good — and I do see it as a blessing in disguise (I was dead-set on seeing it through as far as I can despite the intensity of the stress). In retrospect, there were some red flags even if it *is* a startup that I wouldn’t fit in, so I guess that makes it all the better.

    So my problem now is I was only in the company for three months, and the work pass is tied to a specific company here in this country, which means that to be employed in my next job, the new company will have to apply for the pass anew. So far, I’ve been sending applications that indicate my latest job in my resume and that I’m still employed in my company (the company gave me an “in-lieu” and would hold on to the pass until I find a new job, or at least not cancel it immediately) in my cover letter. Any advice on how I should approach this?

  234. Sparkly Librarian*

    I had to use the “delegate a coworker to make your sad announcement and field responses so you don’t have to talk about it over and over” tactic that was outlined in the sick dog post yesterday. It is working. I am grateful.

    I picked two someones who will brook no crap (one who will cut you and one who will make you feel about two inches tall if you cross a line but is otherwise eminently reasonable), and I understand they are recruiting people to that team in a very efficient way. I think I will be back to work in a couple weeks and by then everyone will know, and know not to talk to me about it at work. I appreciate my coworkers (and I am saying it here because I can’t start that conversation in person). Maybe someone you work with appreciates you for making their difficulties easier.

  235. 0416*

    When is a good time to talk about raise?—–So I started at this company a month ago. It is a completely new industry and I had no experience in the industry or the new role. I know for a fact that my salary is at least 10% lower than market rate but I took it anyways because it is better than my last job (I made the mistake by telling the HR exactly how much I earned before). One month into the job I have received very good feedbacks from my co-workers, manager and clients. I have picked up quite quickly and I think my manager can see that and is pleased with that. My past experience has also somehow integrated into my new job quite well so I am bringing new perspective into my job which my manager have complimented a few times too. I have noticed that this job is much more demanding that what they have told me (another mistake I made, not getting the job description in writing). I need to work much longer hours including evenings to coordinate with clients/teams internationally.

    I really want a raise but I don’t know when is a good time to talk to my manager. Should I wait until he end of this year? Or should I talk with him now to set the expectation and lay out a check list for the things I need to achieve in order to get a raise?

    I’m kicking myself now for not negotiating during the offer. I was too desperate to leave my last job.

    1. Gatomon*

      A month is way too soon. At least six months, but really a solid year in the role would be best, before asking for a raise outside of extreme circumstances. If you’re new to the industry and have 1 month of experience, you have very little to negotiate with. Also, are you looking at the market rate for a new employee with <6 months experience, or are you looking at median pay statistics? 10% below market may not be off base at all if it's median pay.

      However, that's assuming the role is what was sold to you. If the job is significantly different, then you might have grounds to revisit it as a whole (duties + compensation + expectations). But I wouldn't just ask for a raise, that will come off very poorly. If it truly is a different job, then you can talk to your manager about what is different about the position and try to get a salary increase if you can both agree the job is higher-level than they advertised. But there's a chance that they don't see it from the same perspective you do, or you're coming on during a busy period, or you're expected to cut daytime hours to make up for the evenings, etc.

      1. 0416*

        Thank you. You are absolutely right. I don’t plan to bring up this topic now but was just wondering if I should bring this up in a few months to get ready for the end-of-year performance review. Regarding the salary stats I got, my peers have much longer working history in general (10+ vs 5+ myself) but none related to this industry (just difficult to hire in this industry unless you get someone from your competitor) or the role. So from what I see…we are starting from the same place but maybe the company still considers the more experienced.

  236. Middle Name Jane*

    What’s the consensus? Should you write the Summary section of your LinkedIn profile in the first or third person? Mine has always been in the third person, but I’m willing to change it to first if that’s considered the norm now. Thoughts?

    1. nep*

      I don’t know what the consensus is or if there is one. I’ve got mine in first person; for me third person sounds rather odd. It’s pretty much understood that the person in question wrote it, so why would it read as if someone else did…
      I’ll be interested in the responses here.

    2. Alianora*

      It wouldn’t have occurred to me to write it in third person. I have no idea what the norm is, but I would think it was a little strange if I came across someone whose profile was written that way. I’m not on LinkedIn much, though.

    3. Triplestep*

      Mine is really neither first nor third person. It’s a paragraph of phrases and there are no pronouns at all. So no “I have experience in x, y and z” and no “She is well-versed in x, y and z.” Just “Teapot Design professional with experience in both kettle programming and production.” And it goes on like that.

      I like the ones that are written that way (obviously!) and I find the ones written with first person pronouns too informal. My sister-in-law is pretty high level and speaks publicly on her area of expertise, so hers is written in the third person. It looks like – and is – a professional bio, but for her level and position, that makes sense.

  237. Alianora*

    I’m always late to these threads, but may as well post anyway.

    Does anyone have advice on working with university instructors? I’m a recent graduate working in an administrative role. Things have been going pretty well so far, but I haven’t interacted with the instructors much yet.

    1. Jemima Bond*

      By instructors do you mean lecturers, the academic staff? If so, judging by my OH’s experience working in finance departments of a few universities, I’d say be prepared for some MASSIVE egos. Not all of them I am sure but according the stories he would tell, it can all get a bit spoiled-princess/do you know who I am?! So practice your calm and reasonable face and voice if your duties may include telling professor so and so that he can’t have something he wants.

  238. Should I Apply for These Jobs*

    I currently have three years of experience working in my profession, and I have been promoted to a job title that is considered “mid-level.” However, the tasks that I do in my job are still very basic. I just have been handed out more projects to work on for my promoted role. I am currently employed at a nonprofit.

    I am now thinking of job searching and finding a job in the corporate sector. But as I search through corporate job positions in my profession with similar job titles as my current job, I find that the corporate mid-level jobs require/prefer a lot more advanced experience. I don’t have these advanced experience in my mid-level job. But when I looked at corporate jobs in my profession with more junior titles, such as “staff….” or “associate…” those job descriptions more closely match what I currently do now. Some of them even require a little more task experience than my current role. The junior level corporate jobs usually list 0-1 years of experience. I have 3 years of experience.

    Should I still apply for the junior level corporate jobs, even though they seem to be expecting a candidate with less years of experience working in the profession than I do?

    I am also worry that the junior level corporate might not pay as much as my current mid-level nonprofit job.

  239. Resume Skills*

    Hi everyone,

    What can I put in my resume’s skills section if I don’t seem to have proficient skills in any type of software or computer application?

    Currently, I am an accounting working in a church, and I use computer accounting systems that are specific for churches and are not well know software brands. I also don’t know Excel functions all that well. I need to look up a video/article to refresh my memory of how to do vlookups and sumifs. I don’t know how to write complex Excel formulas or MACROS.

    1. Yetanotherjennifer*

      You don’t need to be an advanced user to list a skill on your resume. It’s up to the interviewer to determine if the applicant has the level of experience they need. It sounds like you’re good at what you need to know for your job and you know how to find answers when you don’t. My husband works with people who don’t know how to use basic formulas, like sum, in Excel. I’m not being critical, it’s not a big part of their job. But I’m sure they list Excel on their resume. If the job you’re applying for requires mastery of sumifs then they’ll screen for that. But it’s also something that you can pick up pretty quickly.

      Same goes for your church accounting system. That’s software too and you’re likely pretty skilled at using it. And knowing how your software works would make it easier for you to learn another accounting program. I’d definitely list it and maybe include some sort of description for the people who aren’t familiar with it. You might find it helpful to download trial versions of the most common accounting programs and note how they’re similar and different from the one you use. Or look for articles that compare your software with other programs if trial versions aren’t available. I think you’ll realize you know more than you think and you can also put your software in the proper context for your interviewers.

    2. selenejmr*

      If you know one accounting program, it’s fairly easy to use another accounting program. When I was first hired in accounting we used a DOS version of an accounting program, then updated to the Windows version and it was an easy switch. I also learned Peachtree for a customer. A few years later I was hired at a church and used Shelby, which is for churches and had no problem learning the system. (We recently moved to ParishSoft because it was mandated by the Diocese. Even though it was fairly easy to learn -after the initial set-up was completed- I still like Shelby much better.)

  240. Wintermute*

    I was pondering the other day, I think it would be really funny to have an AAM-style blog that answers “questions” posed from say, a Dark Fantasy world where paranatural creatures (you know, all the things that chased Abbott and Costello: mummies, werewolves, vampires, zombies, ghosts) exist and are publicly known. Think like True Blood or the Anita Blake series. Things like “the anniversary of my co-worker’s death is coming up, should I do something for him for it?” or “my very religious employee wears a cross she’s sufficiently faithful it means our new intern could be hurt, he walked into the same conference room and he started smouldering, and I’m pretty sure if she walked into the elevator without realizing he was there, he’d burst into flames. Would asking her to cover it up be religious discrimination? I don’t want our new intern consumed by hellfire, but I don’t want to make her uncomfortable about her faith either!”

    That or a similar idea with a dystopian cyberpunk world (think Neuromancer, or Shadowrun) of extraterritorial megacorporations. “I had to have an employee assassinated, would it be tacky to attend their funeral? I don’t think anyone knows I did it but they probably suspect something…” , “Is it REALLY necessary to get neural interface plugs drilled into my head to get a good job?” (answer: for most companies not being willing or able to go chrome is a dealbreaker, but most good corporations will work with a good, highly-qualified candidate to get them cybered appropriately, and the higher the demand the more you can push back, but that applies more for highly-specialized and intrusive ‘ware like drone control rigs or sensory recorders, not ubiquitous plug-jacks which are increasingly seen as a life necessity. Unless it’s for medical reasons you’d look out-of-touch with business norms to push back on basic interface jacks), or even “I just found out my co-worker is a member of an AI rights organization, do I have a duty to tell my boss? We work at a remote office so she doesn’t have access to the physical AI node to do something crazy, but, we all know how those radical AI abolitionists are, what if she does something? what if she encourages our office AI to do something?!

    1. Wintermute*

      I meant this for the fun thread not this one.. my bad I’ll repost it there properly… got my threads crossed…

  241. nep*

    Late…I hope some people still look at this thread on the second day.
    Just want to say a huge thank you to Alison and the AAM community. It struck me the other day that during my job search, there is some subtle way this community–simply by existing–helps keep me from going down the desperation hole. It’s as if, in the moments when I feel as if I’ll never land a job and it’s just not worth it anymore, just the thought of AAM being there helps a lot.
    Thanks, Alison and all.

  242. Clever Girl*

    I’m working full time (8-4) but have a lot of debt I’d like to pay off, and want to look into getting a second part-time job, for evenings and/or weekends. I’m having a hard time finding something that isn’t waiting tables (which I would be horrible at because I’m too socially awkward). Does anyone have any suggestions for part-time jobs where I don’t need open availability? I don’t mind getting my hands dirty.

    1. Menacia*

      How about dog walking or pet sitting? You may have to go through an agency, but there is probably some flexibility in the work hours.

    2. Not really a Waitress*

      why not be a cook? I work part time for a well known 24/7 chain. I sometimes wait tables, but I also cook and expedite (call out orders) and make more money that way then waiting tables.

    3. Ron McDon*

      My son works in a restaurant kitchen, washing up mainly, sometimes helping prep food. The pay is really good and he only works evenings/weekends because of school.

    4. A Nickname for AAM*

      Do you exercise? A lot of gyms are looking for people of varying levels, from desk attendant to lifeguard to group ex instructor. The last two require certifications but there are some easy ones you can get, and places like JCCs and Ys are always shorthanded so they’ll accept your flex availability. Plus you’d get a free membership.

  243. ConflictedAndRunningOutOfTime*

    Hi guys, I’m hoping to get a few opinions about graduate school options. This isn’t a question of if I need graduate school or not. In my field I absolutely need at least a masters to do anything long term involving research (which is what I want to do!). It’s more of a question of timing and finances.

    I’ve been admitted into two MA programs for this coming fall. I’ve already rejected one of them because of the distance, the people at the program weren’t forthcoming about any sort of specific details that I asked about and because it was unfunded. The second program was originally my top choice, I interviewed with the PI that I would be working under and something just felt a bit off. But it’s still a great program and the work she does is amazing and right up my alley.

    Here’s where I’m conflicted. I’m about 15k in debt at the moment from my undergrad. This MA program isn’t funded and it will be, best case scenario, 25k a year. The PI said that a lot of students go for the first year, re apply to the PhD program the next and from then on out it’s all funded. But the first year is all on me, and there isn’t a guarantee that I’d get into the PhD. So worst case, I’m paying 50k for a masters that I would probably need to redo to get a PhD if I apply for the PhD at a different institution. (Which is common in this field as well. PhD programs want to train you. So the masters is the training, the PhD is you proving your competent.)

    I have also stared applying to jobs already. I’ve applied to about 7, rejected from one so far. It’s still very early to hear back. I should have started sooner. I’m still looking and applying though.

    I have 2 solid years of research experience working in a behavioral neuroscience laboratory. I have a vast amount of experience working with an animal model and have several poster presentations, awards and currently have 3 publications in the works. I’m graduating summa cum laude in a few weeks. My quantitative GRE score is pitiful but the other two are within the 60th percentile, I’ll be retaking it if I choose not to accept this programs offer. All of the teachers that I’ve talked to say don’t take it, get a research job for a year and re apply to PhD programs only next cycle. They think I’ll get in, so long as I keep myself relevant and continue to work in research in some capacity. They’re also kind of upset at me that I didn’t apply to the PhD in the first place, which at this point I am too. All of the students that I’ve talked to say take the position at the school and that if I don’t I probably won’t go back.

    I still don’t know what to do, and I have until May 1st to give my answer to the school. I keep waking up every day saying I’ll go to the program, then the next day I’ll say I’m getting a job. I just don’t know anymore. Any opinion would be welcomed. Thank you.

    1. RecentPhDGrad*

      Hi there,
      Could you get into a PhD program (for funding) and then quit right after Masters if you feel like? There are no penalties for doing so.
      Good luck!

      1. ConflictedAndRunningOutOfTime*

        Thank you for your reply!

        I probably could, but if I get into a PhD program and I enjoy the program itself, I don’t see a reason why I wouldn’t complete it. I applied to masters programs mostly because I wasn’t sure if I wanted to go into one specific subsection of neuroscience rather than a different subsection and this seemed like a good way to choose without being fully committed to the choice. In retrospect, that was a pretty dumb idea. I should have just applied to the PhD programs for both, then weighed my options about the topics once I was admitted.

    3. Combinatorialist*

      I would probably avoid the debt. Even if you aren’t doing something super relevant to the PhD program this year, I don’t think it will be a strong barrier into getting the PhD program. You apply in the fall and so it is really just what you have been doing for a few months since graduation.

      If you know you want grad school (which as someone finishing a PhD I would really, really think about) don’t go into an unfunded program if you can have a funded program a year later. Also, can you accept a TA position as a masters student? At my university, the math department typically doesn’t have enough TAs and so hires from outside departments. If you are capable of TAing calculus, you might be able to get funding that way.

      1. JS*

        I had a similar experience with outside funding. I went into a (humanities-type) MA program with no funding secured and it was brutal the first year, but I hustled around secured a TA position with an outside department for the first half of my second year and another TA position for the second half. So it’s possible to get some funding from other departments, but I wouldn’t think it’s a reliable strategy by any stretch.

        In the end, I guess it all depends on the university / departments in question! It doesn’t hurt anything to ask if it happens at your university, though!

  244. Jennifer S.*

    I’m stuck with a non-adjustable 36″-high standing desk after an office mini-makeover. Are there seating options for a short, heavy person?

    After changes I wasn’t asked to give input into, my team moved from cubicles to a kitchen counter-style shared desktop. I’m short and heavy, so sitting on the tall, barstool-style chairs you need for a three-foot-high desk is an unsustainable discomfort, and getting into one is awkward.

    Sitting in a “normal” desk chair and typing all day at a desktop that’s at shoulder level is also not sustainable.

    My right leg is asleep as I type this.

    I welcome a standing option, and requested it. But with this kitchen-counter setup there’s **no healthy sitting option** for a short, fat, aging person with arthritis.

    To sit in a standing-desk-style chair I have to sit on the edge of the seat and use a footrest (a short, fitter deskmate uses a cardboard box as a footrest–it’s sad), slumping, with no back support.

    I’ve been advised to ask HR for an ergonomic consult, and I will. Anyone have any other suggestions, particularly on office furniture/adaptive options that could get this awkward setup to provide a healthy work environment for two short people (under 5’4″), one of whom is a big person?

    1. Menacia*

      There are absolutely other options. We have a work area for imaging computers which is higher than a normal desk and we have fully height-adjustable *chairs* not bar stools, with integrated foot rests so your feet aren’t dangling. These are cushioned chairs, we have both with and without arms, that can be raised or lowered as needed. I’m on the short/heavy side too so I know what you mean because my husband and I had to stay in a condo recently that only had a high counter/bar stool set up for a kitchen table and it was awful, the stools were like chairs but did not swivel at all and had no castors so to get to the counter meant shuffling the chair in. I don’t have arthritis but it was awkward and not comfortable at all. I can’t imagine having to work 8 hours a day like that so you should speak up.

    2. Triplestep*

      I work in office design/re-design, and I cannot believe that anyone would think that a kitchen-like stool should be given to *anyone* for office use, never mind what height and weight they are! I swear, I think sometimes people just find ideas on pinterest and implement them.

      I’m glad you are able to avail yourself of an ergonomic evaluation; You will mostly likely be able to get a task stool (which is like a desk chair, but counter height) with a foot ring which will allow you to rest your feet instead of having them dangle. The foot ring is attached to the stem of the chair, so it might feel like having your feet on the floor in a regular chair. The problem might be if you’re like me and would have used a foot rest extended out in front of you while seated – I’m not sure how they’ll address that. But the ergonomic person might have some ideas. Even a box under the tall table could work. I haven’t seen one, but maybe there’s something that can be purchased, and not a cardboard box like your co-worker has resorted to. That would at least appease whoever is clearly thinking about the way this space looks, but not how it functions.

      And don’t feel bad about this – it really is not a height/weight thing; lots of people would be uncomfortable in the scenario you describe. It’s not anything personal about you that this doesn’t work. The person who designed it should have thought of these things. Yeesh!

      By the way 36″ is not optimal eight for typing for a lot of people. If you’re not comfortable while standing either, then talk to the ergo person about a keyboard lift or a tray to lower it.

      Good luck!

  245. Jennifleurs*

    Our HR department tracks if we update our CVs online. I am job-searching secretly, and accidentally updated my CV on CV Library while applying for a job there, about two months ago.

    One of my coworkers said that he’d been “interrogated” by our manager over whether I was looking for other jobs, since he also deduced (correctly) that I took half a day off earlier in the week to go to an interview, plus the whole updated CV thing. Manager hasn’t said anything to me yet.

    I’m now left feeling very awkward. I still don’t want to admit to anyone that I’m job-searching, but going to another interview will probably all but confirm it. I’ve also historically been 100% unsuccessful with interviews so it’s not like I can say “Oh well, soon I’ll be out of here!” because it’s much more likely I’ll still be stuck there except now they’ll know I have no plans to stay.

    I don’t know. It’s just making me uncomfortable. Does anyone have any comments/advice?

    1. atexit8*

      If you know your HR department is doing this, why are you keeping your resume online????

    2. Jill*

      Obviously it’s industry-specific where people post resumes and job search, so you might need to keep your resume posted to have a good chance of finding a job. But I would try not to worry about it – just continue to put your best effort forward.

  246. AnonyAnony*

    Things at work have been in some turmoil for a bit – decreased revenue, restructure, turnover in key leadership roles. But the lunacy had reached new levels. This week, while attempting to assist a coworker with processing a fairly standard transaction, we were confused why we were hitting roadblocks. Turns out that process is being changed, BUT the online policy and directions haven’t been updated and nobody’s been notified of the change. Yet we are being expected to know and adhere to the new policy THAT NO ONE HAS BEEN MADE AWARE OF!

    Hopefully, when revenues stabilize, they’ll be able to afford to buy us all those crystal balls we now seem to need.

  247. Cheesewaffles*

    Hi, sorry late to posting. Wonder if you can offer some advice. I’m currently in the interview process with a job at a large company that I applied to about 5 months ago. I still haven’t actually had a 1-1 interview with the company, just a phone interview with the recruiter. I’m currently waiting for the hiring manager to contact me about the next step. During the long time I’ve started suffering from some physical health issues that I feel will hinder my job performance with the skills that are required at this new position. Is there a way to back out gracefully with a potential to apply again in the future?

    1. Jill*

      I would continue the process and see what happens. It doesn’t sound like they are moving very fast, so you might be feeling better by the time they get around to completing the process. Then if you do get an offer, tell them what’s gong on. If they really want you, they might be willing to work with you. Good luck!

  248. Adopting and Parental Leave*

    My company offers varying amounts of paid parental leave to employees, in addition to standard PTO/sick and whatever the gov requires be allowed unpaid. My company allows the use of the parental leave for fostering and adopting children as well. Which is great. But the policy requires six months notice to use the leave, which I completely understand from a company planning perspective, and which is relatively predictable-ish if one’s becoming a parent involves a pregnancy you’re directly aware of.
    My family is planning to adopt from the foster system, likely an older child. From what we know so far, after we’re fully certified we could theoretically be matched with a child right away, but it’s very unlikely to happen that fast since they want to make sure the placement is right for all and the selection process is much more involved than with a short term temporary placement. There’s also a current six-month backlog for home study.
    It seems like I could tell my company six months before the earliest I could possibly need to take leave, but that seems silly since it’s much more likely to be about 2 years from that point. Or I could wait until we’re actually approved, at which point it might be too little notice, but is still much more likely to be a lot more notice than needed and more than would be useful.
    I’m wondering if anyone has dealt with this before and how you approached it? I’m guessing the best answer is somewhere in the area of “talk to HR about the policy in advance in a sort of neutral hypothetical way rather than treating it as a notice right now” but I’m sort of unsure how to start. I don’t really want to tell my company my family plans before they’re something closer to real. But the policy as written doesn’t really fit all the situations it’s supposed to fit, so asking something seems inevitable. I can’t wrap my head around a way to bring it up that isn’t adversarial and also isn’t sharing more than I want to yet about my personal life.

    1. Jill*

      I would wait until you’re approved, at which point I’m thinking you’d be willing to talk about it. Then go to HR and tell them about it and see what they say.

  249. LP*

    I have a question regarding sign-on bonuses in the case of long vacant positions and inability to negotiate salary. Is there a tactful way of bringing these up as a potential possibility in lieu of a salary negotiation for an internal promotion? Are sign-on bonuses for internal promotions even a thing – has anyone ever asked for this?

    A few bits of context: position was newly created a year ago and still vacant, they are looking to hire 5 people for said position and really want me to take it on (I’m only internal candidate both qualified AND interested), work in healthcare/hospital where salary negotiation is pretty much non-existent (I’ve tried before – it’s not a possibility here), sign-on bonuses are not common but not unheard of in my field.

    There is a clause in our hospital’s compensation policy that allows for bonuses based on “unusual labor market demand”, I guess I just don’t know if I can argue that based on a position still being vacant after a long time. :)

    1. Jill*

      If they flatly refuse to negotiate salary, then it’s worth a shot to try for a bonus. Especially if they are that eager for you to take the position.

  250. Grad Now Lawyer Later*

    I know Allison says not to follow up too soon after an interview, or you’ll look pushy. However, I had an interview exactly 9 days ago for a job out of college across the country (where I’ll be moving after I graduate in a week). My interviewer asked when I would be able to come for an in-person interview, if they decide to move me forward, and I said probably in the week of May 14th, although I wasn’t yet totally sure. However, now I do KNOW that I’ll be there on May 14th. Would it be pushy to email her and let her know?

    1. Jemima Bond*

      I think it would be fine. Just a short “we discussed…and I didn’t have all the information but now I do” type thing.

  251. Mary, Queen of Scoffs*

    UK readers, I need your help. My husband is a teacher. A few days before payday, he received a message that due to system updates, some people may not be paid this month. There was no followup as to when they will be paid. Lo and behold, today has come and he’s not been paid. In addition, he’s also not received money from last month’s petrol claim.

    So basically now, he has no money and can’t afford to drive in to work, let alone pay the bill for his uni course that’s due. He’s tried calling his teacher’s union and the Citizen’s Advice Bureau, and they’ve both said he’s on his own, which seems ridiculous. I’ve tried to call ACAS, but can’t get through. AMA frequently cites US law about when employees need to be paid by, but I’ve been scouring the web and can’t find anything for here. What are his rights? If he can’t get into work tomorrow, can they fire him for this? TIA

  252. Lizzy*

    A little late for this, but hopefully I’ll get some advice.
    Before my last review (in December), I did my research and put together a (what I thought) strong argument for me to be promoted and a substantial pay increase. My job has changed dramatically since I started 4+ years ago, and so I took the risk and went for it!
    I was basically told that I do great work and they really appreciate me, but no promotion and not nearly as much of a raise as I wanted. Our organization’s hierarchy is pretty flat, so I understand that I can’t necessarily take my boss’s job unless she quits, but I honestly kind of expected them to come back with “Ok you can’t be ThisJob Director but you can be Senior ThisJob instead of just ThisJob”.
    I honestly was a bit stunned and rather disheartened that all my hard advocating work was for (almost) nothing, that I didn’t argue or try to negotiate at all in my review. Of course now it’s been almost 5 months, but I’m wondering if it’s worth it to revisit and/or ask how I *can* get a promotion or more $$?
    For context, I do think I’ll end up leaving this position in a year+ (likely moving), and we have a new mid-year review coming up.

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